How to handle this one?

[Trenchcoat]

Guys all I'm asking is for the girl to be reasonable before I consider visa's, marriage, etc. By which I mean me visiting her in her country where she lives and get to know her well.

I know some of you here can aford to divorce and then just wait for the 'employee's' that work for you to replenish your financial position. I don't run a company so I can't do that. For me if a girl takes me for half that is half of a lot of hard work over the years on my part which would have to be redone - not fun. I don't think being a bit cautious and asking for the girl to be reasonable in such circumstances is unjust. After while we may not be poor many of us that undertake this search and on fact many in the countries in which we live are not real rich either, just everyday guys.

[Boethius]

Nightwish is harsh but he has a point.  Seriously, Trench, apart from traducing my country by association with your ridiculous comments, what are you trying to achieve here?  Surely Thailand would be a better place for your search?

Edit/ indeed, on reflection, that is possibly an insult to Thailand. In any event, I don't get the impression that the incredibly strong Russian woman (go learn some history) is truly what you are seeking?

I don't think Russian women are any stronger than women anywhere else.

[Boethius]

Guys all I'm asking is for the girl to be reasonable before I consider visa's, marriage, etc. By which I mean me visiting her in her country where she lives and get to know her well.

I know some of you here can aford to divorce and then just wait for the 'employee's' that work for you to replenish your financial position. I don't run a company so I can't do that. For me if a girl takes me for half that is half of a lot of hard work over the years on my part which would have to be redone - not fun. I don't think being a bit cautious and asking for the girl to be reasonable in such circumstances is unjust. After while we may not be poor many of us that undertake this search and on fact many in the countries in which we live are not real rich either, just everyday guys.

But "reasonable" is based on what you want. That, in and of itself, is unreasonable.

[mhr7]

I don't think Russian women are any stronger than women anywhere else.

Neither do I.

[Trenchcoat]

But "reasonable" is based on what you want. That, in and of itself, is unreasonable.

Lol, typical Russian woman response seeing it on your terms. I wanted marriage & children so did she although she seems to have put clothes first. I wanted nothing else that this and of course love and thought she wanted the same. The amount I spent on clothes was very generous by everyday Ukrainian man standards, probably even by many Foreign man standards.

I'm not sure why she came up with the ultimatum of UK visa or we don't meet seems a silly thing to do. She stated she thought I was married etc but I took this as more of an attempt of her to get her way. What I did would be considered more than reasonable by most I would have thought.

[Anotherkiwi]

Guys all I'm asking is for the girl to be reasonable before I consider visa's, marriage, etc. By which I mean me visiting her in her country where she lives and get to know her well.

While that DOES sound reasonable, it is NOT what you have been posting.

...For me if a girl takes me for half that is half of a lot of hard work over the years on my part which would have to be redone - not fun.

She is not going to take you for half if she has been with you for no time at all!  Try reading up on your own divorce laws, rather than assuming that all the "worst case" scenarios that get reported are the absolute truth in relation to YOUR situation.  While a judge has absolute discretion in a British divorce, everything that I've read suggests that assets brought into a short marriage are NOT automatically going to be split 50/50.  If she walks out on you the day after you get married you can be pretty sure that, apart from what the judge considers might be reasonable in the way of support payments if she stays in the UK, she will get two-thirds of bugger all, especially if you have not previously lived together.

I don't think being a bit cautious and asking for the girl to be reasonable in such circumstances is unjust. After while we may not be poor many of us that undertake this search and on fact many in the countries in which we live are not real rich either, just everyday guys.

Again, your mindset is all arse-about-face.  You should be looking at finding someone first, NOT figuring out how to stop them scamming you in your divorce! 

[Boethius]

Lol, typical Russian woman response seeing it on your terms.

I'm not Russian. Not a drop  of Russian blood.  Further,  I am Canadian, and my sensibilities and attitudes are Western, formed by my culture.

I wanted marriage & children so did she although she seems to have put clothes first. I wanted nothing else that this and of course love and thought she wanted the same. The amount I spent on clothes was very generous by everyday Ukrainian man standards, probably even by many Foreign man standards.

So after 2 weeks(?) together, she should have been making babies?  This is so patently absurd it's not even really worth addressing.

I'm not sure why she came up with the ultimatum of UK visa or we don't meet seems a silly thing to do. She stated she thought I was married etc but I took this as more of an attempt of her to get her way. What I did would be considered more than reasonable by most I would have thought.

No, what would have been reasonable, if you cared about her, would be to let her visit you.  She is the one who will face consequences if things don't work out - she can't really go back and get her old job back, she will have very limited prospects in finding a local man.  If it turns out you are abusive, she has to think of how to escape that situation if she stays in the UK.  She wouldn't know of local (UK) options.   She wanted to see you in your "home" environment. 

[tfcrew]

Are you trolling?

  Yeah, this all seems very familiar

 
 

[Anotherkiwi]

I wanted marriage & children so did she although she seems to have put clothes first. I wanted nothing else that this and of course love and thought she wanted the same.

You met her once, for one week, and she's 15 years younger than you.  She expresses normal twenties behaviour, and yet you can't understand it, even though you would surely (I hope) recognise exactly the same behaviour in a London girl.  After that, you continue to moon after her like a lovesick puppy, because you can't get off your bum to find someone (even in the FSU) who would be a far better match for you.  You continue to bellyache about how you don't have time to Skype people to help find a more suitable candidate for your adoration, and yet you spend hour after hour posting some of the most absurd nonsense I've ever seen on here.

The amount I spent on clothes was very generous by everyday Ukrainian man standards, probably even by many Foreign man standards.

Here you go again, harping on about how much she scammed you by forcing you to buy her clothes with YOUR money.  Change the damned record!

I'm not sure why she came up with the ultimatum of UK visa or we don't meet seems a silly thing to do. She stated she thought I was married etc but I took this as more of an attempt of her to get her way. What I did would be considered more than reasonable by most I would have thought.

Apart from what appears to be normal(ish) behaviour for someone her age, so much of what you posted shows what would normally be regarded as one red flag after another.  This thing about you being married should have been enough in itself for you to dump her - why on earth would you bother with someone who obviously doesn't trust you at all?

2tallbill, jone and BillyB have all expressed it perfectly, and most of the rest of us agree - you (as in the generic person) are not out there to find someone who is OK, and who you think will make a reasonable wife.  You are out there to find someone absolutely outstanding, who rocks your socks so much that you will do pretty much anything to be with her, AND WHO FEELS THE SAME WAY ABOUT YOU.  She can't wait to hear your voice when you ring, or to see you every evening on Skype, and she's happy to spend hours and hours and hours talking about anything and everything.

The problem with this scenario is that it doesn't apply to you, and never will, because you're not prepared to ring anyone, or use Skype (or Viber, or Whatsapp, or whatever else).  You have just a two-hour time difference from Ukraine - not ten or twelve hours like the guys in the USA - and yet you can't even see that this is actually a big advantage for you.  Get dinner out of the way reasonably early, and you could then spend all evening talking to women to find out how compatible they might be, and weeding out the ones who aren't quite right.  You don't have to get up at stupid o'clock; you don't have to hide in your office conference room to sneak a phone call in the middle of your day.  YOU, Trenchcoat, can do this all at times which don't affect your work at all - but you obviously can't be bothered.

And yet you come on here, with your grandiose pronouncements about life in Ukraine and its dirt-poor, downtrodden people, based on two very short visits where you didn't have a clue about what you were seeing or who you were meeting, let alone what might constitute "normal" or abnormal behaviour from the women you went to meet.  If you do actually manage to get to live there (or in Russia) next year, as you've posted so many times that you want to do, I'll applaud - and I might even take notice of some of the things you post.

If you had started by telling us simply what you had done, where you had been and what you had seen, and posed questions about things which you didn't understand, or weren't sure about, you would have received a far more sympathetic response to some of your subsequent posts.  Because you've done nothing but pontificate from your high horse, that ship has sailed.

Nightwish is right on the money with his assessment.  Harsh?  Maybe.  True?  Definitely.

[southernX]

Nightwish is right on the money with his assessment.  Harsh?  Maybe.  True?  Definitely

agreed 

it would be heaven to live within a 2-3.5 hour plane travel time of the fsu countries ,
for the blokes who do live there they have no idea how much easier  that makes their real time trips /meetings with a prospective life partner

SX

[Jumper]

TC,
I do think you can adapt
,so I won't pile on ,but again offer up what I think is the root problem..

As I've said before to you,
Your mindset
is in need of the adjustment.

You continue to worry about the *what if's* long before you are even steadily dating.

So keep the cart firmly behind the horse.
There is zero need to worry about losing half your assets in a divorce when you arnt remotely close to marrying someone.
 Meet them, date them, and at any time if it isn't the right match for you, or you for them. End it immediately, politely, and look again repeat as needed.
But do not look for all kinds of the tiniest nuances of poor motivations.
Give them the benefit of the doubt, until they show otherwise.
Because you are just dating,no one is losing a home over that, (or even a uk visa)and hopefully enjoying the time doing so.

*if* you adjust your mindset to relax a bit , and look for a true match, you'd also do some introspection, to understand what really would fit in your life,  a real equal partner,not some day dream playmate.

Someone who ticks all your boxes,in what you both find interesting in life, your goals in life, and in your views on marriage and family. .
Someone you can have endless conversations with on all subjects.
You wouldn't be looking at early twenty something girls ,as they are not an equal partner 99 % of the time .It's simply not enough life experience and most young people are relatively the same in every culture,the exceptions are far too rare to chase.
Look to 28 to 38 as example, as I dont  know your age,but it's an age where maturity has at least begun generally and focus is on family, not going out,fashion etc.
That doesn't mean they won't dress well,or have those interests,it means it will likely no longer be a primary focus.
Also make a concentrated effort to see life from their perspective.


If you did just half of that,just half of the time, you would have 80 percent less problems.

Yeah yeah I pulled that statistic out of my popa, but it's close enough for this place.

A huge part of the issue in your past relationship was simply the girls age, and your not really wanting to date someone with that age groups normal focus.
You dint want to see things from her age generations view, her cultural view,or anything else,so of course her choices made no sense to you, nor yours to her.

Learn something from your experiences,they are fantastic only if you learn something.
And no its not that ukrainian women are this way,or that way.
It's that you choose to date a rather immature woman for an adult man  and the result would be the same in any country(only a rare exceptional individual might change that)

You live close.You can viber or skype, you can visit on just a long weekend.
 And you can make the time to research a nice more mature woman that might turn your world around if you choose to.
but you need a willingness to put others thoughts and needs before your own, and to really look at what you need ,and would be great in your life,vs what you want,or rather think you want.

Even a smokin hot woman that adores you , will bore you to tears in no time if you arnt equally interested in her as a person  (not just physical appearance)

[Nightwish]

agreed 

it would be heaven to live within a 2-3.5 hour plane travel time of the fsu countries ,
for the blokes who do live there they have no idea how much easier  that makes their real time trips /meetings with a prospective life partner

SX

There is a good reason I  managed to make over 30 trips there, it even go to the point that one of the women in passport control (a stunning one at that) smiled at me and welcomed me back even before looking at my passport a couple of times..
If it wasnt for Tanya, I would have asked her out :p

[Trenchcoat]

You met her once, for one week, and she's 15 years younger than you.  She expresses normal twenties behaviour, and yet you can't understand it, even though you would surely (I hope) recognise exactly the same behaviour in a London girl.  After that, you continue to moon after her like a lovesick puppy, because you can't get off your bum to find someone (even in the FSU) who would be a far better match for you.  You continue to bellyache about how you don't have time to Skype people to help find a more suitable candidate for your adoration, and yet you spend hour after hour posting some of the most absurd nonsense I've ever seen on here.

Here you go again, harping on about how much she scammed you by forcing you to buy her clothes with YOUR money.  Change the damned record!

Apart from what appears to be normal(ish) behaviour for someone her age, so much of what you posted shows what would normally be regarded as one red flag after another.  This thing about you being married should have been enough in itself for you to dump her - why on earth would you bother with someone who obviously doesn't trust you at all?

2tallbill, jone and BillyB have all expressed it perfectly, and most of the rest of us agree - you (as in the generic person) are not out there to find someone who is OK, and who you think will make a reasonable wife.  You are out there to find someone absolutely outstanding, who rocks your socks so much that you will do pretty much anything to be with her, AND WHO FEELS THE SAME WAY ABOUT YOU.  She can't wait to hear your voice when you ring, or to see you every evening on Skype, and she's happy to spend hours and hours and hours talking about anything and everything.

The problem with this scenario is that it doesn't apply to you, and never will, because you're not prepared to ring anyone, or use Skype (or Viber, or Whatsapp, or whatever else).  You have just a two-hour time difference from Ukraine - not ten or twelve hours like the guys in the USA - and yet you can't even see that this is actually a big advantage for you.  Get dinner out of the way reasonably early, and you could then spend all evening talking to women to find out how compatible they might be, and weeding out the ones who aren't quite right.  You don't have to get up at stupid o'clock; you don't have to hide in your office conference room to sneak a phone call in the middle of your day.  YOU, Trenchcoat, can do this all at times which don't affect your work at all - but you obviously can't be bothered.

And yet you come on here, with your grandiose pronouncements about life in Ukraine and its dirt-poor, downtrodden people, based on two very short visits where you didn't have a clue about what you were seeing or who you were meeting, let alone what might constitute "normal" or abnormal behaviour from the women you went to meet.  If you do actually manage to get to live there (or in Russia) next year, as you've posted so many times that you want to do, I'll applaud - and I might even take notice of some of the things you post.

If you had started by telling us simply what you had done, where you had been and what you had seen, and posed questions about things which you didn't understand, or weren't sure about, you would have received a far more sympathetic response to some of your subsequent posts.  Because you've done nothing but pontificate from your high horse, that ship has sailed.

Nightwish is right on the money with his assessment.  Harsh?  Maybe.  True?  Definitely.

I met her twice for a week at a time. Most of the rest of what you say though I take as a good synopsis on my situation. The girl acted as many a twenty something girl would do, I see this now from what you say, when she first message me I brought up that she may be too young for me, she pronounced that she was 'not too young' - though clearly she was. I think she saw my photo and where I lived (looked it up) and from it looked like I had money. I don't think she realized that I was not looking to fund a 'lifestyle' of clothes shopping but really wanted to focus on having children and of course getting to know her, her hobbies in relation to this. As a girl in her mid twenties she has no real hobbies/interests other than clothes shopping and posing for photos, constantly, lol. She has a few forms of entertainment but even these came secondary to looking/buying clothes. I thought by buying a few clothes for her she would be satisfied and would appreciate it, but I don't think she would ever be satisfied. Maybe as she get nearer to 30 she might change but I agree I must look for another girl. The next girl will almost certainly be older and I will look for the mutual feeling you state and someone I can get to really know their inner world. I think I have a much better idea now of how to proceed, thank you

 

[Trenchcoat]

TC,
I do think you can adapt
,so I won't pile on ,but again offer up what I think is the root problem..

As I've said before to you,
Your mindset
is in need of the adjustment.

You continue to worry about the *what if's* long before you are even steadily dating.

So keep the cart firmly behind the horse.
There is zero need to worry about losing half your assets in a divorce when you arnt remotely close to marrying someone.
 Meet them, date them, and at any time if it isn't the right match for you, or you for them. End it immediately, politely, and look again repeat as needed.
But do not look for all kinds of the tiniest nuances of poor motivations.
Give them the benefit of the doubt, until they show otherwise.
Because you are just dating,no one is losing a home over that, (or even a uk visa)and hopefully enjoying the time doing so.

*if* you adjust your mindset to relax a bit , and look for a true match, you'd also do some introspection, to understand what really would fit in your life,  a real equal partner,not some day dream playmate.

Someone who ticks all your boxes,in what you both find interesting in life, your goals in life, and in your views on marriage and family. .
Someone you can have endless conversations with on all subjects.
You wouldn't be looking at early twenty something girls ,as they are not an equal partner 99 % of the time .It's simply not enough life experience and most young people are relatively the same in every culture,the exceptions are far too rare to chase.
Look to 28 to 38 as example, as I dont  know your age,but it's an age where maturity has at least begun generally and focus is on family, not going out,fashion etc.
That doesn't mean they won't dress well,or have those interests,it means it will likely no longer be a primary focus.
Also make a concentrated effort to see life from their perspective.


If you did just half of that,just half of the time, you would have 80 percent less problems.

Yeah yeah I pulled that statistic out of my popa, but it's close enough for this place.

A huge part of the issue in your past relationship was simply the girls age, and your not really wanting to date someone with that age groups normal focus.
You dint want to see things from her age generations view, her cultural view,or anything else,so of course her choices made no sense to you, nor yours to her.

Learn something from your experiences,they are fantastic only if you learn something.
And no its not that ukrainian women are this way,or that way.
It's that you choose to date a rather immature woman for an adult man  and the result would be the same in any country(only a rare exceptional individual might change that)

You live close.You can viber or skype, you can visit on just a long weekend.
 And you can make the time to research a nice more mature woman that might turn your world around if you choose to.
but you need a willingness to put others thoughts and needs before your own, and to really look at what you need ,and would be great in your life,vs what you want,or rather think you want.

Even a smokin hot woman that adores you , will bore you to tears in no time if you arnt equally interested in her as a person  (not just physical appearance)

I had originally intended to date 28-thirty something like you state. I would probably cut it off to 28-36 on a dating site search with a view to the more ideal being 30-34 due to wanting children and a girl that is also committed to having children as she is out off time to afford to bugger around as twenty something girls have the greater option of doing. Anyway, last girl came up looked stunning and I thought give her a go not realizing at the time what I was getting myself into. She seemed committed and serious in her messages to having children but unfortunately that is not all she had on her mind. I wouldn't quite say she was boring but her lack of interest in much else apart from looking for clothes got old before too long. So yes next time I would like a girl I could share interests with. First girl was into theatre, musical stuff which was ok, it was at least something we could go to and I don't mind once in a while but I don't think a girl that is into a lot of that is really on the same wavelength as me as its not normally something I would bother with on my own. So yes next time I am much more confident that I will get it right

Situation at the moment is that I am bogged down with a construction project over the winter that I can not really get away from for long. Well, I could get away for a week or so but then it would set me back and while this is no a huge problem it means I would just be shifting the workload back into the warmer spring weather which would be more pleasanter time to be over there. That and I want to really devote a good number of weeks, possibly months over there rather than the quick flying visit for a weekend or week. For me and the person I am I think I really need to find girl I like and get well with and she with me and then spend a lot of time with her to really get to know her well. Some guys that are more socially skilled than me or luck out may be able to do a flying visit and have a good relationship going but me personally I thin for a relationship to work well I need to speed a lot of time with chosen girl upfront to really make sure we have a real relationship there are both on the same page and give me confidence that she is really into me. A girl can fake it a bit for a while but long term for many this is not possible.

Until then I am going to organise myself, redo my profiles so I do not inadvertently give of the wrong signals and prepare for the venture next year. If I could though I would be over there like a shot but I think I know I would be setting myself up with a situation that would not best place me.   

[wallm]

What the hell is "more pleasanter?" Must be British English. You talk too much and make little sense. Find someone closer to your age. The most important thing in a successful marriage is friendship, I think. Build that first with whoever you find. You must have some common interests. Next time a woman pushes you towards shopping, tell her you don't want to buy her love, and that enjoying life's gifts will come later. If she walks, then good.

[Anotherkiwi]

I met her twice for a week at a time.

Sorry; my mistake.  It doesn't change any of my conclusions, though - in fact, I can't imagine why, after what you wrote about the first visit, you went again to meet the same girl.

I think I have a much better idea now of how to proceed, thank you

I'm so glad I was sitting down when I read this!

[SANDRO43]

What the hell is "more pleasanter?" Must be British English.

No, it is not, even remotely .

[Anotherkiwi]

No, it is not, even remotely .

It's on a par with one of the more annoying oxymorons which I'm hearing more frequently these days:

"One of the only..." 

Have they never heard of "few?"

[jone]

What the hell is "more pleasanter?" Must be British English. You talk too much and make little sense. Find someone closer to your age. The most important thing in a successful marriage is friendship, I think. Build that first with whoever you find. You must have some common interests. Next time a woman pushes you towards shopping, tell her you don't want to buy her love, and that enjoying life's gifts will come later. If she walks, then good.

I can't even imagine having such a discussion with a woman.  If she pushes me to buy things, she's already gone, even before I respond to her.  Not even worth giving lip service.   

[msmob]

What the hell is "more pleasanter?" Must be British English.

Decidedly, not .... Just Trench's unique ability to lower the tone !

You talk too much and make little sense. Find someone closer to your age. The most important thing in a successful marriage is friendship, I think. Build that first with whoever you find. You must have some common interests. Next time a woman pushes you towards shopping, tell her you don't want to buy her love, and that enjoying life's gifts will come later. If she walks, then good.

Respect ...

[BdHvA]

Trench Coat, I see no need to add to this thread except to note the Kiwi, pretty much nailed it with regards to your reality. You reminded of those blow up clown toys that are anchoured on the base with sand you can punch it but it always bounces back upright. The problem the clown and you do not seem to learn. Bd

[Trenchcoat]

I'm learning BD, just had a thought on this one recently

I was thinking the best way to put across my preference to the girl that I prefer her to wear short dress/skirts would be to say its a cultural thing. That it is frowned upon in British society for decent girls to wear jeans/shorts, that some of course do but it is not looked well upon, as she of course should follow suit I will add to this that only old women wear long dresses/skirts which is near enough the truth. If I go for girls that mainly wear dresses in their profile pics then I should have this one in the bag and will be a happy boy    

[Boethius]

If you’re serious, unless you hook up with a complete idiot, she’ll know what you’re telling her is a lie.

Based on the totality of your posts, you will not be successful in this venture. By that, I mean a long term relationship. You need to stop and ask what do I have to offer? 

[Mappy]

TC, surely you must be a troll (and, if so, one who clearly gets results!).  Nobody in real life could be so insensitive and dumb.

[Davo]

Trench, you have to be winding us us up  ,........  if not, don't ever under any circumstances!!!!! tell a woman what to wear, offer advice if she asks, but to tell an intelligent woman, that you only want her to wear short skimpy  dresses would be incredibly insulting to her. A woman with self-respect would end the relationship the  moment you mentioned this.

If I pushed this preference on the woman I'm talking to, first she would laugh and think I'm joking, then she would ask me what's wrong, has something she's done upset me, then she would say "f@#k off, you're pathetic and not the man I thought you were" it's pretty offensive and  will come across as  misogynistic.

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's very easy to see you haven't ever lived with a woman or maybe ever been in a relationship at all.