Does she want love?

[kynrazor]

Recently, I have been narrowing my search to focus more on the women from the Golden Ring of cities near Moscow on the dating site. I messaged and chatted with a couple dozen profiles but only this girl in particular caught my attention and I in turn caught her attention, perhaps too strongly.

By the time she replied to me in her 2nd letter, she was already giving me her phone number without me even asking for it!  This is the first time it's ever happened. It's as if she's so eager as she kept asking me to find her via the number

From there, we moved on to Whatsapp and started chatting and then voice mailing each other which has gone on and on for the past two weeks as of yesterday. Now here, ladies and gents, is where things get extremely strange. Or rather, I'm just not used to such directness.

As per the links below, yesterday she sent me a voicemail which I replied and she sent another one again the same day:

http://drive.google.com/file/d/1nCnvbG7ZXCRTSK5BsIwKZBSBd882zRg8/view

http://drive.google.com/file/d/1CBvSl8mgzkjswfLFazOdsW-8Mq0RhbjH/view

She was mostly talking about how I am a very smart person and of all the people she's talked to, she's met no one who can compare (Stroking my ego??). She even called them "mindless"!! It's true. You can listen to the voicemails if you find it hard to believe.

Then proceeded to say how she thinks many people are biased and "governed" in Russia (brainwashed) and how she genuinely believes there are better countries with better living conditions than Russia eg. Turkey (I mean, really? Turkey? Is this even true??  )

So just to probe her further, I asked her what she thought would be nice countries for her to develop and live in. So she went off a list...not Norway, Sweden...but Germany, France, California...etc etc then paused, and said actually, no, the problem for her is she doesn't want to get married to an European man, a preference she herself acknowledged was subjective.

She says she has met many Europeans and though she enjoyed talking to them and found them very smart and interesting to talk to, were not as interesting as I am (Stroking my ego again??).  Then she says she hasn't found anyone who's been dear to her and she's usually been disappointed. (Is this a sign Russian lads cheated on her or something? She's only 18! Do girls get damaged so early these days?)

What confuses the heck out of me, is that no girl I have ever known online or in real life, has ever told me she liked me, ever. Just like that. Not even after months of correspondence! Usually it's been indirect expressions like, "I'm so happy to know you, you're such a nice friend, I'm so happy to have friend like you, oh you're so nice, I'm so happy to hear from you, I haven't heard from you for ages!"

It has usually been me who take the initiative to romance the girl, which I guess is quite the norm in the FSU dating scene. Even then, these girls (ages 18-23) would always be quite shy & reserved and only sometimes indirectly flirt and show their interest towards me. I feel this is the norm for most educated lasses who aren't addicted to social media attention ( which are my prime targets).

All my discussions with her prior to this were all strictly academic (discussing Russian history, the aristocracy, the reforms and pondering over whether the Bolshevik Revolution was avoidable and whether the Russian Empire could have evolved into a constitutional monarchy) with only few compliments like telling her she has a beautiful mind (it's true anyway).

So ladies and gents, what are the odds that she is seeking a mule to get into other countries? If not, what is she trying to convey to me here? Is she saying I'm not serious enough? Is she trying to say she loves me by saying she likes me and thinks I'm the most interesting person she's ever met?

After all, I don't want her to think I'm not interested. At 18 years of age, she's quite a nice attractive lass applying to study at MGIMO, the Harvard of Russia. A very nice catch on paper

[Boethius]

She's just young.

[JayH]

She's just young.

Ditto !

Also --take note -- many many western men online are anything BUT normal ! There are some very very strange guys out there.

[ML]

There are some very very strange guys out there.

Name 10.

[JayH]

Name 10.

There are easy 10 on this forum !!!  Let alone the 1000's out there contacting women !
Anyone that has seen the stuff guys write ,say or show online is amazing -- and I am not meaning in a positive way !

[BillyB]

She was mostly talking about how I am a very smart person and of all the people she's talked to, she's met no one who can compare (Stroking my ego??). She even called them "mindless"!! It's true. You can listen to the voicemails if you find it hard to believe.

You sound surprised. You don't believe you're very smart and can beat your competition? If woman told me I was smart and nobody can compare to me, I wouldn't be surprised. Have confidence in yourself.


I listened to her talking. She's mature and intelligent for her age. Do not accuse her of needing a visa mule just because she has some ideas on where she'd like to live. Appreciate the fact she wants a better life and has standards when it comes to living. Explore this more and judge if she's looking for love and if she is, is she looking to love you. Being already more mature than women of her age, she grows fast and she may grow faster than you. That would be bad if she someday views you as a child or doesn't have the ability to grow up with her.


In your voice recordings I didn't recall her mentioning your name once. Did you edit that out?


I recommend you call her on the phone often. Be respectful of her schedule and hours. By letting you call her anytime of the day, you know you're special. She wouldn't give her number out to just any guy on the internet. Also by calling her often, you will learn if you can hold a conversation with her and if you discover you don't get bored with each other on the phone, make plans to visit her.

[Steamer]

So ladies and gents, what are the odds that she is seeking a mule to get into other countries? If not, what is she trying to convey to me here? Is she saying I'm not serious enough? Is she trying to say she loves me by saying she likes me and thinks I'm the most interesting person she's ever met?

She sounds perfectly normal.
She is telling you how she feels about things and what she wants. It doesn't sound like she's trying to pull anything on you. Yes RW are direct and it can be a little off-putting at first but I've come to like it. Ask the important questions so you will know if this can work.
Do not fear success.

[Sting23]

 Doesn't sound like 18 at all, much more mature.  Speaks great English, sounds intelligent. Go and meet her and see what happens.

[Sting23]

There are easy 10 on this forum !!!  Let alone the 1000's out there contacting women !
Anyone that has seen the stuff guys write ,say or show online is amazing -- and I am not meaning in a positive way !

I can think of 1 or 2 off the top of my head without trying too hard 

[Davo2]

There are easy 10 on this forum !!!  Let alone the 1000's out there contacting women !
Anyone that has seen the stuff guys write ,say or show online is amazing -- and I am not meaning in a positive way !

Is it strange to send a picture of Borat in a mankini and ask if I would look good in?  ..... She did get quite a good laugh from it

[JayH]

Is it strange to send a picture of Borat in a mankini and ask if I would look good in?  ..... She did get quite a good laugh from it

Yeah -well --what can I say!! 
fwiw --you were in more advanced stage of communication !

For those that have actually been in an agency 'war" room -- one of the features I have seen a few times is the wall of shame --of guys who have sent photos of private parts  etc !!
One of the big laughs the  guys who are writing for agencies ( the hairy Boris syndrome !) have is asking guys to send swimsuit or less type photos ! Photos are often sent unsolicited to "girls" -- both real girls and their alter egos !
Many guys ( far to many actually) seem to think that they are impressing a 'girl" !!

[Trenchcoat]

Recently, I have been narrowing my search to focus more on the women from the Golden Ring of cities near Moscow on the dating site. I messaged and chatted with a couple dozen profiles but only this girl in particular caught my attention and I in turn caught her attention, perhaps too strongly.

By the time she replied to me in her 2nd letter, she was already giving me her phone number without me even asking for it!  This is the first time it's ever happened. It's as if she's so eager as she kept asking me to find her via the number

From there, we moved on to Whatsapp and started chatting and then voice mailing each other which has gone on and on for the past two weeks as of yesterday. Now here, ladies and gents, is where things get extremely strange. Or rather, I'm just not used to such directness.

As per the links below, yesterday she sent me a voicemail which I replied and she sent another one again the same day:

http://drive.google.com/file/d/1nCnvbG7ZXCRTSK5BsIwKZBSBd882zRg8/view

http://drive.google.com/file/d/1CBvSl8mgzkjswfLFazOdsW-8Mq0RhbjH/view

She was mostly talking about how I am a very smart person and of all the people she's talked to, she's met no one who can compare (Stroking my ego??). She even called them "mindless"!! It's true. You can listen to the voicemails if you find it hard to believe.

Then proceeded to say how she thinks many people are biased and "governed" in Russia (brainwashed) and how she genuinely believes there are better countries with better living conditions than Russia eg. Turkey (I mean, really? Turkey? Is this even true??  )

So just to probe her further, I asked her what she thought would be nice countries for her to develop and live in. So she went off a list...not Norway, Sweden...but Germany, France, California...etc etc then paused, and said actually, no, the problem for her is she doesn't want to get married to an European man, a preference she herself acknowledged was subjective.

She says she has met many Europeans and though she enjoyed talking to them and found them very smart and interesting to talk to, were not as interesting as I am (Stroking my ego again??).  Then she says she hasn't found anyone who's been dear to her and she's usually been disappointed. (Is this a sign Russian lads cheated on her or something? She's only 18! Do girls get damaged so early these days?)

What confuses the heck out of me, is that no girl I have ever known online or in real life, has ever told me she liked me, ever. Just like that. Not even after months of correspondence! Usually it's been indirect expressions like, "I'm so happy to know you, you're such a nice friend, I'm so happy to have friend like you, oh you're so nice, I'm so happy to hear from you, I haven't heard from you for ages!"

It has usually been me who take the initiative to romance the girl, which I guess is quite the norm in the FSU dating scene. Even then, these girls (ages 18-23) would always be quite shy & reserved and only sometimes indirectly flirt and show their interest towards me. I feel this is the norm for most educated lasses who aren't addicted to social media attention ( which are my prime targets).

All my discussions with her prior to this were all strictly academic (discussing Russian history, the aristocracy, the reforms and pondering over whether the Bolshevik Revolution was avoidable and whether the Russian Empire could have evolved into a constitutional monarchy) with only few compliments like telling her she has a beautiful mind (it's true anyway).

So ladies and gents, what are the odds that she is seeking a mule to get into other countries? If not, what is she trying to convey to me here? Is she saying I'm not serious enough? Is she trying to say she loves me by saying she likes me and thinks I'm the most interesting person she's ever met?

After all, I don't want her to think I'm not interested. At 18 years of age, she's quite a nice attractive lass applying to study at MGIMO, the Harvard of Russia. A very nice catch on paper

Sounds like a documentary

Well I would say of the local guys many are the dregs of society. Still she is only 18 so she will probably still have those around that aren't. Which brings us to why  is she not being hit on by these guys. Possibly there are more attractive women, more fun women to be with or maybe she has a difficult personality in some way. I think it is likely to be the last one, she seems to cone across as a girl with high expectations and may not be easy to deal with. At the moment you are just getting to know her but I'm guessing she has some very fixated views on stuff and any difference of opinion with her could be a killer of a relationship. I'm guessing the decent local guys will go for girls that are both attractive and easy to live with, attractive & difficult they do not need.

The want to get out of Russia is a concern, she seems to place this as a top priority and yet she is still only young - ambitious? Could be worth asking what she wants to do long term. Some women's ambition can be bad news. Immigration mule? Maybe, if she likes you she will stay with you, if she doesn't she will just make out she does until the immigration process is complete then move on. That's why I say I want to go to FSU and make out I'm living there permanently as otherwise you never really know, particularly if she has a strong desire to emigrate as we see in the recordings. You could tell her you want to live in Russia (as you find it a fascinating country, etc) see if she wants a relationship with you them.

My thoughts on her saying you are smart - she could just be echoing what you saying about yourself back to you. I remember Mobe on here said you were smart in one of the threads but he never said what he was basing this on. On the stuff you mentioned many people know about this stuff (Russian History, etc) from education. I often find though that two like minded individual don't often click they have nothing to share only knowledge which both desire obtaining individually anyway, there's no bouncing off each other. That said real opposites don't always go either. Or you may be right, she may be Stroking your ego to use you for immigration mule.

With any women you need to get over there and meet her. All this otherwise is a load of waffle with whoever the woman is. Once you have learnt a bit about how life is over there from them then that is there usefulness done. I've learnt from my forays on FSU dating is that if you can eliminate the pitfalls as best as possible then much time, money and concern can be saved. Every woman you contact will have a story but many of those stories may often lead to concerns, justified or not. Perhaps now you see the wisdom of my strategy

[Sting23]

Trench, no...

[tfcrew]

She's just young.

Maybe too young. What is the age difference?

[Trenchcoat]

To further add, I think one of the main things you have to think of Kyn is that over there there are few decent men, bring her back here however and she will have a lot of choice. You've already told us you don't finish first with women in this country and given the dating situation of females having the upper hand dating in this country you're not in an uncommon position. However, its only a matter of time until she sees that if you brought her back her. If she's into you enough she may stay or she may decide one of the competition is so much better than you.

You're idea of studying over there is not a bad one that you mention in another thread but remember you are not providing whilst you are studying, unless you can find a source if income as well at the same time.

I've just brought up the pic off her now that I'm on my laptop, she is kind of attractive in a studious sort of way. I think you would have to at least bring her up on Skype or travel to see her to get a better all round idea of her. Your earning potential is something you need to start thinking of now as well I think as being a student is often restrictive on this and to hold much esteem for a FSW you generally need at least a basic income if not better. That's my thoughts anyway.

[kynrazor]

Maybe too young. What is the age difference?

I'm 24. She's 18 this year and probably going into University the next. Age gap is almost close to the limits of my comfort zone.

I listened to her talking. She's mature and intelligent for her age. Do not accuse her of needing a visa mule just because she has some ideas on where she'd like to live. Appreciate the fact she wants a better life and has standards when it comes to living. Explore this more and judge if she's looking for love and if she is, is she looking to love you. Being already more mature than women of her age, she grows fast and she may grow faster than you. That would be bad if she someday views you as a child or doesn't have the ability to grow up with her.

That's what I found most fascinating. She has certainly demonstrated maturity and intelligence beyond her age it's almost scary but awesome at the same time. Feels like dynamite. Then again, I do like educated women as they never keep me bored and perhaps the reverse is true.

I'm not too concerned that she may outgrow my ability to cross philosophical musings with her. However, one worries whether the candle that burns the brightest, also flames out the fastest. So by the time she's already 30, she'll overthink herself to depression and oblivion.

I just do not understand her "disappointment" with her past dating experiences. I do not know why she became so honest with me, telling me about mostly the "Europeans" she's talked to. From my 1 year experience, usually young FSU women aren't straightforward and don't do that... even after months, not to mention her telling me she likes me in such a straight way (Ok, perhaps it's only liking me for my smarts).

In your voice recordings I didn't recall her mentioning your name once. Did you edit that out?

No she hasn't mentioned my name so far.

She is telling you how she feels about things and what she wants. It doesn't sound like she's trying to pull anything on you. Yes RW are direct and it can be a little off-putting at first but I've come to like it. Ask the important questions so you will know if this can work.
Do not fear success.

Hmm, directness within two weeks. It's a new record for me for sure, especially when I haven't initiated any romance yet. I have usually found FSU women being indirect with their compliments and dropping little hints every now and then whilst I follow through with the "chase" and this can go on for weeks, months even.

Isn't this the usual FSU dating process? Men the initiator, leader and proposer? Unless she is not normal FSU or I'm wrong with my presumptions about the dating culture.

Doesn't sound like 18 at all, much more mature.  Speaks great English, sounds intelligent. Go and meet her and see what happens.

The fact she's 18 and talking like this never ceases to amaze me. I agree. She told me her English teacher is American.

Sounds like a documentary

Haha not sure I caught on. Rest assured she's real, I'm real and these experiences are real.

You could tell her you want to live in Russia (as you find it a fascinating country, etc) see if she wants a relationship with you them.

Unfeasible. I would be lying to her very early on if I told her something I do not see myself doing. My roots have settled elsewhere.

I'm guessing she has some very fixated views on stuff and any difference of opinion with her could be a killer of a relationship. I'm guessing the decent local guys will go for girls that are both attractive and easy to live with, attractive & difficult they do not need.

Hmm, I don't know. It'll be interesting to find out if it's true that FSU men do not have much interest in smart women? I don't mind putting up with her arguments if it's civilised and rational. I can probably last till the day my mental faculties fail me.

Every woman you contact will have a story but many of those stories may often lead to concerns, justified or not. Perhaps now you see the wisdom of my strategy

Are you saying this justifies your future on-the-ground shotgun approach to find potential mates and determine chemistry on-the-spot?

I've long booked tickets for Moscow in March so I'll see how it goes. Got my visa done last week.

Your earning potential is something you need to start thinking of now as well I think as being a student is often restrictive on this and to hold much esteem for a FSW you generally need at least a basic income if not better. That's my thoughts anyway.

I've always been wary of my unsatisfactory financial situation but I thought I would start early and serious now whilst I still haven't had my career yet so that when the time is right, I would have hopefully found "the one", and be set to start my family together right away.

As discussed before, that was partly my motivations to venture into the FSU where women still get married relatively early. Here in the UK, you'll be hard-pressed to find women in their 20s willing to start a family and bear children, even devout Christians, because their focus is almost entirely devoted towards making their careers!

[kynrazor]

When in Kyiv last summer (2017), I can't tell you how many families I saw walking in parks, or having picnics, typically, with the father preparing shashlik.  Here, I routinely see FSUM shopping with their wives and children.  So this idea that there are few decent men is a fairy tale told to stupid Westerners to manipulate them.[/font][/size]

There is ZERO lack of quality men in the FSU who are under 35 years of age - exactly the demographic you and kyn are pursuing.  That is a fact.

Actually, it's what I thought as well.

Hence my surprise that the girl says she has frequently been "disappointed" by the local guys. She says she remains convinced that she knows what she is looking for.

Does that mean she had damaging experiences? Boyfriend cheated on her? Or no one could understand her? 

[Boethius]

I just read what you posted. Her musings are not particularly different from those of many young women I know. 

one worries whether the candle that burns the brightest, also flames out the fastest. So by the time she's already 30, she'll overthink herself to depression and oblivion.

Incredibly sexist.  Do deep thinking men burn out into oblivion at 30?

[Boethius]

Actually, it's what I thought as well.

Hence my surprise that the girl says she has frequently been "disappointed" by the local guys. She says she remains convinced that she knows what she is looking for.

Does that mean she had damaging experiences? Boyfriend cheated on her? Or no one could understand her? 

Most young women, unless they have brothers, are "deeply disappointed" by young men.  I wouldn't read too much into it.


I first understood this when I noticed girls' reactions to my sons, starting at age six!  Girls who were only children or only had sisters acted far differently than did girls with brothers. 

[BillyB]

She has certainly demonstrated maturity and intelligence beyond her age it's almost scary but awesome at the same time. Feels like dynamite. Then again, I do like educated women as they never keep me bored and perhaps the reverse is true.

An intelligent person knows fire is hot. A wise person knows not to touch it. I view her has more wise for her age. Can't say much about her intelligence level yet. It doesn't seem like she talks about dancing and going to the club but is planning life and her future. Figuring out what she wants. She talked to enough men to know she doesn't want them.

She hasn't mentioned your name but get on the phone with her. She may say your name more often and that would be a good thing.

[kynrazor]

I just read what you posted. Her musings are not particularly different from those of many young women I know. 

Incredibly sexist.  Do deep thinking men burn out into oblivion at 30?

I never once said it only applied to women. Having been a deep thinker myself sometimes, I know full well the potential for spiralling into depression when one over-thinks certain philosophies that may destroy your pre-existing meaning of life. Isn't accident the quote :"ignorance is bliss" exists.

[Boethius]

I never once said it only applied to women. Having been a deep thinker myself sometimes, I know full well the potential for spiralling into depression when one over-thinks certain philosophies that may destroy your pre-existing meaning of life. Isn't accident the quote :"ignorance is bliss" exists.

The better half is a deep thinker.  Runs in his family, which contained, on both sides, many world famous intellectuals.  But he doesn't believe in depression. 


While depression can have chemical causes, the type you describe is not caused by over thinking.  i believe it arises when your expectations and reality conflict.

[Davo2]

Looks like you've found a lovely young lady Kyn. I have an 18 year old daughter, she's very mature also. Sometimes I act more like a teenager than she does and she often pulls me into line.

Regarding her bad relationship issues, I don't see this as a problem. My Daughter has dated since the age of 15 and has probably had more dating experience  than some guys twice her age on here. She's seen it all... Cheaters, drugs, immaturity, liers etc.. She's had some great life  lessons on they type of man she should be looking for.

As others have said, don't over think it. You're a pretty intelligent young guy, just go with your intuition... good luck mate 

[2tallbill]

Recently, I have been narrowing my search to focus

I wouldn't post her photo here. There are people with too much time
on their hands that might try to contact her and twist something that
you posted around just to screw stuff up for you. It's happened to me
and others.

[msmob]

Hi Kyn

I'm in a [sort of] part of Turkey ( Northern Cyprus ) and I've oft said you're bright ...


It's NOT bright - in my eyes - to suggest TR is more progressive than RU - given their leaders' feeling the need to ban / temporarily close certain social media sites ...

You might like to mention this ... 

NB At the mo Instagram/ twitter / facebook / linkedin / youtube ARE working via a backbone that is effectively Turkish !   ( Linkedin is barred in RU ) so she MAY have a point

Lastly my Ma was 17 when she met my Dad ( 19 )  and my younger daughter ( closer to 19 than 18 ) posts some thought-provoking stuff .....   

You'll only really know if you meet her and if she wants to meet you - she'll be happy to video chat, first