Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: IAmZon on May 31, 2012, 10:46:28 PM
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Please list the Red Flags that most offend or scare you. Just chime in. We will have a big list of RED FLAGS in a couple days.
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"I am pregnant!"
(followed with....)
"Return immediately and marry me!"
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ooo
I have some.
:)
in no particular order
1.
She Ignores you most of the time, until she needs something.
2.
She doesn't ask any questions about you or your life, But professes her eternal love for him and talks about marriage and commitment.
3.
She will not talk to you on the telephone.
4.
She doesn't speak the same language.
now for the Guys
1.
He claims it's "his girl" or "his Lady" without ever seeing her in person.
2.
He thinks a large age gap with a girl under 24 is fine.
3.
He thinks seriously about love and marriage and even makes plans in written letters, having never met
her.
4.
He doesn't speak the same language.
5.
Asking any woman to marry after knowing her IN PERSON with face time of less than 60 days.
6.
He talks about local women as if they are damaged and he can not consider marriage to any local woman to justify his looking to the FSU.
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29 of them (the answers in red and blue) on the Scammer Score Card (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=37) ;).
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Not fully red but pretty scary...(http://www.theodora.com/flags/kn.gif)
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Red flags in no particular order
1. Talks disrespectfully about any woman inc ex
2. Does any type of whining and complaining
3. Tell lies
4. Talks too much about ex, past relationships or attempts to talk with how many women he has been involved in his life
5. On dating profile has photo of him shirtless or just in speedos/trunks
6. Does any kind of bragging
7. Arrogant or self-centered
8. Attempts to talk about sex or makes sexual references early in communication or/and prior meeting in real life
9. Anything that could indicate he has aggressive, abusive or controlling tendencies
10. Suffer with clinginess
11. Shows any signs of addictive behaviour
12. Too flirtatious
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The scammer score card is interesting, but perhaps outdated. (I will get to why I think so throughout this thread). Excellent points Miss Ameno from the female perspective.
Moving beyond email communication, which almost can not be taken seriously these days, when making initial contact. Specifically, when you meet a woman in her country in the first week- with or with out an agency - what are the RED FLAGS.
(I know there are many that will "pitch a fit" as this thread continues, HERE IS your chance to help form the conversation now, rather than be superficially argumentative later)
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Red flags in no particular order
1. Talks disrespectfully about any woman inc ex
2. Does any type of whining and complaining
3. Tell lies
4. Talks too much about ex, past relationships or attempts to talk with how many women he has been involved in his life
5. On dating profile has photo of him shirtless or just in speedos/trunks
6. Does any kind of bragging
7. Arrogant or self-centered
8. Attempts to talk about sex or makes sexual references early in communication or/and prior meeting in real life
9. Anything that could indicate he has aggressive, abusive or controlling tendencies
10. Suffer with clinginess
11. Shows any signs of addictive behaviour
12. Too flirtatious
Hi again missA( new place for me--see if I get as much attention here with my innocent questions!)
Most of what you say is how I would behave--ie not doing what you list.The biggest problem for me when I started my journey was to talk about myself--I was not used to doing it.
The other side of the coin seems to me that Ukraine women do not seem to respect quiet politeness. Hard to explain exactly what I mean here-- but when I say-- I easy--you choose-- I have heard in scornfull tone-- you are a man? !!
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...
The other side of the coin seems to me that Ukraine women do not seem to respect quiet politeness. Hard to explain exactly what I mean here-- but when I say-- I easy--you choose-- I have heard in scornfull tone-- you are a man? !!
LoL... welcome to the insanity.. ;)
"I easy--you choose" will usually attract at least a strange look into your world.. there's a lot of talk about "be a man and make the decisions" but the problem you face is even more diabolical than you imagine... and here is the nutshell...
Women love to bitch..
Women love even more to blame the man...
Women have standing multiple orgasms when they can combine these two.. ;D get it? >:D
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Red flags on the first meeting:
- she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact
- plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled
- the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.
- she avoids attempts for serious conversation
- her SMS keeps being very busy
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Excellent, this is the stuff I was hoping for ...
Red flags on the first meeting:
- she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact
- plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled
- the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.
- she avoids attempts for serious conversation
- her SMS keeps being very busy
1, she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact.
Let's think about this. If the date is an agency appointment, or a simple internet meeting .... it is REALLY NOT "a date." (The exception, of course, would be if you wrote a REAL woman for months and weeks before a meeting)
2, - plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled
Alarming, but life is hard and unpredicatble here. These people have to cope with less than a perfect range of options and choices.
3, - the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.
If you are meeting too many people, or if the girl is meeting too many people (ie "tours") IT DOES FEEL LIKE WORK. But, in a normal environment, there must be engagement at a minimum.
4, - she avoids attempts for serious conversation
EXCELLENT POINT
5, - her SMS keeps being very busy
Tough call. If she is young and like teenage texting - well, most of that should not be in that situation in the first place. If she is older and they are work related (employees of all types are under great demand)
PLEASE, let's continue ...
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The other side of the coin seems to me that Ukraine women do not seem to respect quiet politeness. Hard to explain exactly what I mean here-- but when I say-- I easy--you choose-- I have heard in scornfull tone-- you are a man? !!
I guess Ukraine women are NOT conditioned to associate the response "I easy--you choose" with politeness. They associate it with a lack of desire to cooperate while you were asked for it. In my opinion, when FSUW asks you to pick an alternative, it is similar to a request for help in decision making and replaying with "you choose" appears as a refusal to cooperate, not as a polite reply. With the scornful tone, they disapprove of your non cooperation, not your effort to be polite
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Excellent, this is the stuff I was hoping for ...
Red flags on the first meeting:
- she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact
- plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled
- the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.
- she avoids attempts for serious conversation
- her SMS keeps being very busy
1, she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact.
Let's think about this. If the date is an agency appointment, or a simple internet meeting .... it is REALLY NOT "a date." (The exception, of course, would be if you wrote a REAL woman for months and weeks before a meeting)
2, - plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled
Alarming, but life is hard and unpredicatble here. These people have to cope with less than a perfect range of options and choices.
3, - the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.
If you are meeting too many people, or if the girl is meeting too many people (ie "tours") IT DOES FEEL LIKE WORK. But, in a normal environment, there must be engagement at a minimum.
4, - she avoids attempts for serious conversation
EXCELLENT POINT
5, - her SMS keeps being very busy
Tough call. If she is young and like teenage texting - well, most of that should not be in that situation in the first place. If she is older and they are work related (employees of all types are under great demand)
PLEASE, let's continue ...
Do not try to find excuses.
You are determining if she is interested enough in YOU to be marriage material.
1. It has been said that a woman decides within 5 seconds if she would like sex with you or not. This means that avoding physical contact while walking is a sign her mind said no.
2. Even if a woman is meeting many foreigners she will only introduce those to her friends and family that she wants a further opinion on. If everyone suddenly becomes unavailable chances are she is doing the canceling, not them.
3. If meeting people feels like work, she does not want to spoil her free time with a potential life partner ?
5. Once again, it shows the level of interest. If someone is more interested in her SMS contacts as in a potential life partner, you know her priorities.
The priority of work in the FSU is MUCH lower as it is in the US or Western Europe. If her job is so important that she has to give attention to it while not there, one has to wonder if she will leave her job for you.
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I guess Ukraine women are NOT conditioned to associate the response "I easy--you choose" with politeness. They associate it with a lack of desire to cooperate while you were asked for it. In my opinion, when FSUW asks you to pick an alternative, it is similar to a request for help in decision making and replaying with "you choose" appears as a refusal to cooperate, not as a polite reply.
You are correct. The thing is that if she asks 'maybe we will have sex' you will not even think of suggesting an alternative or tell her ' you choose' .... ;D
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6. Does any kind of bragging
Miss Ameno, what is wrong with informing others about your accomplishments?
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You are correct. The thing is that if she asks 'maybe we will have sex' you will not even think of suggesting an alternative or tell her ' you choose' .... ;D
But they almost never use the words 'maybe we will have sex.'
Rather they say: "I will now go take a shower."
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Most of the red and green flag ideas are just common sense, and apply to men/women in any country.
Yes, there are a few cultural differences that might mean a red flag in one culture whereas that same act would not be a red flag in another culture. But those are not many in number.
Despite all the talk about cultural differences between FSU folks and American folks, I haven't really had many awkward situations at all concerning this.
I never even had any problems with this idea of 'be the man and make the choices.' I just frankly told the women in pre-meeting emails that they would be much more familiar than I about things in their city, and that they should be prepared to suggest things to do, places to go, places to eat, etc. And they all did exactly that.
But then, by my telling this pre-meeting, that may have satisfied the requirement that I 'be the man.'
However, in general, the idea of 'what does it mean' when the gal: reschedules meeting with family, seems to be too busy with work, takes too many phone calls when you are together, etc. . . . .
merely points up the advantages of the WMVM approach.
Under that approach . . . you simply quit wasting time, stop trying to figure her out, and just move on.
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Miss Ameno, what is wrong with informing others about your accomplishments?
There is fine line between talking about accomplishments and bragging. Someone can mention his/her cetain accomplishment once in awhile when its appropriate in conversation and someone else will mention it every 30 minutes for the rest of his/her life.
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Do not try to find excuses.
You are determining if she is interested enough in YOU to be marriage material.
1. It has been said that a woman decides within 5 seconds if she would like sex with you or not. This means that avoiding physical contact while walking is a sign her mind said no.
2. Even if a woman is meeting many foreigners she will only introduce those to her friends and family that she wants a further opinion on. If everyone suddenly becomes unavailable chances are she is doing the canceling, not them.
3. If meeting people feels like work, she does not want to spoil her free time with a potential life partner ?
5. Once again, it shows the level of interest. If someone is more interested in her SMS contacts as in a potential life partner, you know her priorities.
The priority of work in the FSU is MUCH lower as it is in the US or Western Europe. If her job is so important that she has to give attention to it while not there, one has to wonder if she will leave her job for you.
Are we going to advance the SAME OLD MOB narrative? Email communication and Social Networking has changed very much over the last 3 years. The proportion of girls with access to computers and a little English is much higher than 5 years ago. There are very compromised human beings looking for a better life. There are middle men and business that are trying to make a buck. Here's my thoughts ...
1, ALL of these initial dates are NOT DATES in the real sense of the word - not by a mile. The promoters sell them as dates, with the strong inference that the woman is actually interested in the man. I have been on 10 first dates, of those two had a sexy vibe to it. Both women were "looking for something" from me. They were not happy in their life and content. The subsequent meetings are where a basis of chemistry is built, or observed. (But, maybe I am just poky and slow to pick up on physical suggestions)
2, Most women here hold their family's opinion in VERY HIGH regard. So, what would be the normal time frame for a well adjusted, accurate thinking human being to bring a man to meet the family? 2 days - 5 days?
3, If a woman, or man has 3 meetings in a day (very common for tours), it sure as hell felt like work to me. (By the end of the day, I did not give a crap if it was Superwoman on the other side of the table, I was ordering a glass of wine and not talking about my hobbies.)
4, SMS interuptions on a FIRST or SECOND date. There are limits for sure. But, I just gotta say that there was a lack of LOVE AND DEVOTION in the first 60 minutes I experienced with meetings through agencies (HAHAHAHA). There were a couple that were pushy, but most of the very attractive women that had good occupations and English skills did not fit into the "cookie cutter" image of fresh and available to any foreign man with a pulse.
(HELL, I know a handful of guys that continue travelling around Ukraine after the tour doing followup with girls who they already met, and WHO EXPRESSED CONTINUED interest in them! These subsequent meetings are not going NEARLY AS WELL as the men hoped. My point is that it is not just "shooting fish in a barrel" To say so, is not dealing in reality - or, referencing reality as it existed 10 years ago.
This is not personal. I think negative stereotypes and the actual amount of TIME it requires to position yourself as a serious potential husband can not be accomplished with women who are NOT IN A COMPROMISED position in 3 - 5 days. This position is VACANT in the normal MOB Narrative, and simply noting this is a service to those who are considering making a trip like this nowadays.
It is true, I struggled for the first 10 days because I was not used to a woman that controlled herself LOL I was use to "loose" women - I admit it. PLUS, I was reading the MOB narrative - flawed. Some may want to take note! If I tried to make make a decision to hold em, or fold em, in 5 seconds or 10 days, my current relationship would not have gone anywhere. I think that is the norm going forward because the women are communicating more effectively to the outside world - and the interest and attention they receive without middlemen enables them to reevaluate their value and choices.
My intended purpose here was to EXPAND on the MOB narrative.
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you simply quit wasting time, stop trying to figure her out, and just move on.
THANK YOU FOR ILLUSTRATING MY POINT (that is perfect)
1, There is a reason why every man comes to Colombia, or Ukraine. It is ALWAYS something that can be compensated for by leaving home (age; status; money; league; values)
2, Men rely too much on their eyes to determine if the woman is acceptable to them, but fail to use the mirror to ask if the he is acceptable to the woman
3, Maybe you are the love of my life and the mother of my children. Minute 1; SMS Message. Minute 13; orders full course dinner Minute 35 does not agree to come to the apartment to get a "gift" Minute 55; is vague on when a meeting with the parents is possible. SCAMMER! NEXT!
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You were talking about signs during a meeting, and you seem confused with signs that someone is interested during the job interview of becoming your wife.
As I have no experience in that field, because I preferred to have some initial contact and then devote some time and interest to a meeting, please read my points as only valid for an extended meeting of at least a couple of days.
If you think that choosing a woman through an interview over a cup of coffee is a better strategy, find someone who has been successful at that to give tips.
Life has changed, but what has not changed is that if a person is interested in you, they will put as much time and effort in as they can. If they are not, you are a side dish.
If you feel ok with being a side dish, go ahead and take somene who will occasionally plan you in to their life. I prefer someone who wishes to plan her life around me.
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You were talking about signs during a meeting, and you seem confused with signs that someone is interested during the job interview of becoming your wife. As I have no experience in that field, because I preferred to have some initial contact and then devote some time and interest to a meeting, please read my points as only valid for an extended meeting of at least a couple of days. If you think that choosing a woman through an interview over a cup of coffee is a better strategy, find someone who has been successful at that to give tips. Life has changed, but what has not changed is that if a person is interested in you, they will put as much time and effort in as they can. If they are not, you are a side dish. If you feel ok with being a side dish, go ahead and take someone who will occasionally plan you in to their life. I prefer someone who wishes to plan her life around me.
Over the years, I have consistently found you to be an argumentative a$$ - may lovably cantankerous?
MEN MEET WOMEN IN A VARIETY OF WAYS:
- tours
- agencies
- non middlemen web sites with not bad reputations (elenas)
- Social networking Sites - LL; MAMBA; Kontact; Badoo; Etc..
Unless you are a keyboard romeo, and spent a ton of time creating an online relationship, then IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, your first "dates" are really cautious "look sees" So, you are putting your two cents into the thought that you can use any of the above, and trip out of a buss, then begin to romance the woman of your dreams?
I have seen a lot of trainwrecks here and in Colombia (I have seen some successes too). But, what you are describing - what the agency web sites, and middlemen pump - is not the reality that I am seeing play out on the ground.
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Over the years, I have consistently found you to be an argumentative a$$ - may lovably cantankerous?
MEN MEET WOMEN IN A VARIETY OF WAYS:
- tours
- agencies
- non middlemen web sites with not bad reputations (elenas)
- Social networking Sites - LL; MAMBA; Kontact; Badoo; Etc..
Unless you are a keyboard romeo, and spent a ton of time creating an online relationship, then IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, your first "dates" are really cautious "look sees" So, you are putting your two cents into the thought that you can use any of the above, and trip out of a buss, then begin to romance the woman of your dreams?
I have seen a lot of trainwrecks here and in Colombia (I have seen some successes too). But, what you are describing - what the agency web sites, and middlemen pump - is not the reality that I am seeing play out on the ground.
While you were playing, I have been together with Mrs Shadow for 5 years....
Guess who is argumentative here ?
And I am describing my own experience of the past, not agency hype. I leave that up to you who tries to apologize for any bad signs. A bad sign is a bad sign, and if you ignore it you will find out sooner or later.
I know men meet women in many different ways. But I do not see job interviews as a way of meeting. They are simply job interviews, and are nothing but to see interest for dating. Dating beings after that, and one needs to be face to face for some extended time in order to find any good or bad signs. It does not matter if you do the job interview throug Skype, a tour or any type of website. Until you plan to spend actual time with someone, you have nothing at all.
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I think all rivardco is saying is the hard and fast "rules" about women which appear on forums and service providers' "tips" are useless. I tend to agree.
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...PLUS, I was reading the MOB narrative - flawed. Some may want to take note!...
Yeah, well, told you so.
You should've been here during the episode of "...she sacrificed everything she's known just to be with me..." Now that was a near tear jerker, man.
My intended purpose here was to EXPAND on the MOB narrative.
I'm curious to see how you'd accomplish that. Based on your recent trip/report..."you came, you saw, you fell in love". That episode has been running re-runs since time immemorial ~ ask *oneweekwonder*.
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I think all rivardco is saying is the hard and fast "rules" about women which appear on forums and service providers' "tips" are useless. I tend to agree.
I agree with that as well.
And one of the most common problems of guys is that whenever confronted with something that causes a red or orange flag, they seek explanations to turn it off. With the old 'cultural differences' as the last straw to explain it away.
As most of the MOB sites will contain some explanation for orange and red lights, its easy to stay in dreams until the woman finally has to hit the guy on the head with a clue bat for his lack of understanding subtle signs.
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And one of the most common problems of guys is that whenever confronted with something that causes a red or orange flag, they seek explanations to turn it off. With the old 'cultural differences' as the last straw to explain it away.
TRUE.
Maybe I am changing teams, but I am starting to see things from the RW perspective ?!?!? In my recent case, I WAS THE ONE with the Red Flags LOL
It is true that men see mostly what they want to see, and do need strong clarification and guidance, but that is because they are making large financial and emotional decisions too fast, and with a mentality of "need" most of the time. What good can come of that?
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TRUE.
Maybe I am changing teams, but I am starting to see things from the RW perspective ?!?!? In my recent case, I WAS THE ONE with the Red Flags LOL
:ROFL:
Now THAT'S funny, I don't care who you are. You seem hellbent on reinventing the wheel and attempting to explain away or justify why no rules apply and all bets are off to rivardco. I have some sad news for you my friend. You are just another trailblazer where 100's of 1000's have trailblazed before.
Your first trip to Ukraine. You've met a hot babe 20 years younger than you and now you've discovered the holy grail. She is so different than any women you've met before and you can see this woman in the picture for the rest of your life. Where have we heard THAT before?
It is true that men see mostly what they want to see, and do need strong clarification and guidance, but that is because they are making large financial and emotional decisions too fast, and with a mentality of "need" most of the time. What good can come of that?
Pot, kettle, black :D
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Your first trip to Ukraine. You've met a hot babe 20 years younger than you and now you've discovered the holy grail. She is so different than any women you've met before and you can see this woman in the picture for the rest of your life. Where have we heard THAT before?
First trip to Ukraine - NOT first time to the Rodeo. Been doing this for the better part of 4 years. Our my toe in the water for a 54 day trip to Ukraine. Just so happens, I met a woman that sort of got in my way. I was sort of hell bent on going around the world like this. All plans are on hold now.
I TRIED to put a dent in the traditional MOB narrative just to bring it up to date. Seems like there are some old salts that want to just reverberate the same old. All good with me. I think I found what I was looking for
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Totally oblivious.
:popcorn:
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First trip to Ukraine - NOT first time to the Rodeo. Been doing this for the better part of 4 years. Our my toe in the water for a 54 day trip to Ukraine. Just so happens, I met a woman that sort of got in my way. I was sort of hell bent on going around the world like this. All plans are on hold now.
I TRIED to put a dent in the traditional MOB narrative just to bring it up to date. Seems like there are some old salts that want to just reverberate the same old. All good with me. I think I found what I was looking for
That tends to happen when you go to marriage agencies. You found a good looking, young woman with a sizeable age gap. You immediately went gaga, stopped dating other women and professed you're not worthy.
Great to hear you're not like the rest and did something totally different. :P
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That tends to happen when you go to marriage agencies. You found a good looking, young woman with a sizeable age gap. You immediately went gaga, stopped dating other women and professed you're not worthy.
Great to hear you're not like the rest and did something totally different. :P
Well, let's not be too harsh with our hero. He did took his time for a good part of a week and let love unfold 'naturally' with a woman from a marriage agency. Unlike everyone else before him who made financial and emotional decisions pretty fast.
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First trip to Ukraine - NOT first time to the Rodeo.
Yet you chose to have your hand held. You have international travel experience, and still thought you needed wingmen, planned itinerary, etc. So you joined a tour. Trail blazers don't go on tours.
Just because you realized that you did not need such after just a few days does not make you a trail blazer. It is my belief that most of the RWD men did not go on a tour.
Even after breaking away from the tour, you still used a MOB small agency. Again, that is not trail blazing. It is taking a risk - of getting deceived. In this case the agency owner gave you good advice, tailored for you.
Your trip was different in one key way. You arrived on a WNVM trip and converted it quickly to a VO trip. You used your people skills to decide what was best for you and whether is was legitimate even though certain biomarkers were not green. You pursued only one because you deemed she was worth it, even though every city has many alternatives. That does make you different from some men, yet not different IMO from most of the married and committed men at RWD.
Don't concern yourself with proclaiming how different you are. Instead concern yourself with how different Irina is from the women of your past and whether you are a good man for her.
A question. If you had written a number of UW and Irina was one of them, would you have selected her for intensive correspondence such as Skype? Would you have gone to Ukraine just to meet her (a WMVO trip)?
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Unlike everyone else before him who made financial and emotional decisions pretty fast.
When saying such, you need to a smiley or two. We really need a "tongue in cheek" emoticon.
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When saying such, you need to a smiley or two. We really need a "tongue in cheek" emoticon.
Absolutely.
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Yet you chose to have your hand held. You have international travel experience, and still thought you needed wingmen, planned itinerary, etc. So you joined a tour. Trail blazers don't go on tours. Just because you realized that you did not need such after just a few days does not make you a trail blazer. It is my belief that most of the RWD men did not go on a tour. Even after breaking away from the tour, you still used a MOB small agency. Again, that is not trail blazing. It is taking a risk - of getting deceived. In this case the agency owner gave you good advice, tailored for you. Your trip was different in one key way. You arrived on a WNVM trip and converted it quickly to a VO trip. You used your people skills to decide what was best for you and whether is was legitimate even though certain biomarkers were not green. You pursued only one because you deemed she was worth it, even though every city has many alternatives. That does make you different from some men, yet not different IMO from most of the married and committed men at RWD. Don't concern yourself with proclaiming how different you are. Instead concern yourself with how different Irina is from the women of your past and whether you are a good man for her.
A question. If you had written a number of UW and Irina was one of them, would you have selected her for intensive correspondence such as Skype? Would you have gone to Ukraine just to meet her (a WMVO trip)?
I pissed off some people here because I said the AFA tour and photo sessions and PR activity in a small town embarrassed me. Some people got their feelings hurt / or want to say I am the same thing as the short old guy with the camera crew - FINE - NO BIGGEY
I have pissed others off ... Others have opposed / laughed at the idea that I would stay concentrate on one woman for 70% of my trip - COOL - but, if I want to waste my time, it is my time to waste.
And, I have pissed others off with a cocky attitude ... suggesting that I have enough experience with women not to trip on my pecker (although I admit I did not use it over the last 14 days LOL).
BUT, and this is important, I have been living more than 50% of my life in places other than the USA for about 4 years. So, I view these last two months as a continuation of a life style. Many of these times I have lived / worked with those that own /operate / manage agencies tours whatever. This is the FIRST TIME I participated in torus, middlemen, and used agencies in hopes of finding a match. And, Gator, you are correct although this is turning into a "long trip", and I have traveled by myself only 70% of the time, this trip has been geriatric and boring compared to my life in South America.
Let's put all that aside please for my next post, please. What follows is substantive (IF you want to call me names, please refer to one of the other active threads that are already full of adhominem (personal) observations and comments )
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I have been in the dragons den! In response to Gator's question ... if I wrote to Irina:
Irina would not have known, and she would not have been the one writing to me. I have been to the offices and seen a pit of computers with translators typing away. Translators tend to be the most jaded of them all because they are paid to engage with men through letter writing - after a couple months / years their faith in men / foreigners is completely ruined.
Would she have SKYPED with me upon request after several income generating letters ... yes, if it was arranged, maybe. It is a money making artificial business model that is not grounded in truth! Women are told they need to meet with 20 men in person before they find the right match. That means they have to go along with trying to get a man here from time to time. The women are not entirely complicit, yet the situation is far from ideal. GET IT.
Small businesses, local marriage agencies eke out a living working with large web sites that set the rules and pay 30 - 40 K a month in google adwords to get the traffic and customers. AFA CharmingBrides and others. These local businesses feed profiles into the large web sites and write letters for income. They work with multiple web sites simultaneously. Look at it from the different perspectives:
= Local Agency need to make money, and nothing really happens until a MAN VISITS. The internet activity is just PR / Sales stuff. 99% of men that write letters will never come to visit. If an agency encouraged a good woman to engage in all letter writing, she would loose interest and go away in a few months. So, they do not put stock in this activity. They are looking at it like Watering The Lawn. IF A MAN COMES HERE, then you have a chance to develop an honest relationship with the local management and women - only a chance.
= The men writing and reading the letters. These guys are hoping that they are developing an unique relationship with THIS WOMAN. In reality it is an illusion.
= Big Web Sites and US based promoters. They make most of the money and set down harsh rules on the local businesses. They apply performance standards and apply charge-backs. It is a hard nose nickel and dime business, and nobody is making money except the US based promoters.
Of course there are tons of guys that get conned. women too. There is enough disappointment to go around.
Let's get back to Irina. She has seen this whole thing play out too many times. She has had her hopes high, and let down. She does not take letter writing seriously. Jesus, she does not even take one visit SERIOUSLY! She has seen men (apparently good men) come her with good attractive women, both fall in love. Then the man leaves after a couple weeks, never to return, and it turns out he is married with 2 kids. These type of stories are as common on this side as pro-daters on ours. This leaves a very steep challenge to over-come. This may partially explain her initial mentality with me over the first two weeks.
Again, if you develop relationship with local agency owners - and are realistic and well mannered and do not behave like a PIG - then it is possible to get very good, sincere service. I HAVE. I would be happy to PM those interested with my contacts. I do not want to post a bunch of contact information on a public site, because it will look like I am sponsoring and pushing people. I do not want the commercial members here to start pitching a fit. (However, I must remark that I have thought Eduard's approach makes more and more sense to me for most guys that need a wing man).
There is one company that is worthy of a special mention. www.FHDating.com (http://www.FHDating.com) This guy and his company are different. He has helped me often. He let me work in one of his offices a couple days when my internet was down. He volunteer to buy me a train ticket this week when he was in Kiev. And, all the while I have not been a paying client. He has made no money on me, nor has he hassled me. He is from Portugal, but married a woman from Poltava. They live here happily and have a baby. He runs an apartment rental company, travel agency and support service AND a selective marriage agency www.FHDating.com (http://www.FHDating.com) HE IS DIFFERENT. You will not see his best girls on the site. Why? Because they do not want their photos on the internet on a dating agency. They understand the social taboos. He has a big mirror in his office and he often tells clients to look in the mirror (this happens when a 60 year old, out of shape man enters saying he is sincere and looking for a wife ... then selects women 19 - 24 year olds with model quality looks LOL) He works rather closely with the man and woman during the introduction phase. I have met 3 guys that have used his service and are now waiting with their fiances for the visa process to be completed. They are damn happy.
If you are serious about this,
I really think email and letter writing is almost hopeless nowadays.
I really think that going to bigger cities with little Russian and little time is almost hopeless too.
If you have little time, the biggest variable is the woman's psychological predisposition. (Is she new and hopeful, or experienced and jaded? Is she financially desperate for a better life? Is she a status climber looking for a facilitator?) Is there chemistry and "true love" at first sight from this? Hell, maybe ... I think it is more rare than it used to be.
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Good post Rivardco- total real situation and I can confirm many comments here.It is only when you are actually there and dealing with real life that will help your cause.
The relationship of agencies to the big sites is an interesting one.
The other point you made that should be noted-- the girls have seen and heard it all-- some have been used in a most callous and hurtfull way--it is the other side of the scam coin and there is nothing nice about it.
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There is one company that is worthy of a special mention. www.FHDating.com (http://www.FHDating.com) This guy and his company are different... He is from Portugal, but married a woman from Poltava. They live here happily and have a baby. He runs an apartment rental company, travel agency and support service AND a selective marriage agency www.FHDating.com (http://www.FHDating.com) HE IS DIFFERENT. You will not see his best girls on the site. Why? ...
Maybe the answer to your question can be found on Complaints Board, on which some FHD..'s Customers kindly posted their "testimonials" ?! :-\
http://www.complaintsboard.com/bycompany/for-him-dating-a416489.html
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I pissed off some people here because I said the AFA tour and photo sessions and PR activity in a small town embarrassed me. Some people got their feelings hurt / or want to say I am the same thing as the short old guy with the camera crew - FINE - NO BIGGEY
I have pissed others off ... Others have opposed / laughed at the idea that I would stay concentrate on one woman for 70% of my trip - COOL - but, if I want to waste my time, it is my time to waste.
And, I have pissed others off with a cocky attitude ... suggesting that I have enough experience with women not to trip on my pecker (although I admit I did not use it over the last 14 days LOL).
I have (reluctantly) followed this and other threads because I have no life. Er, was curious of all this stories. ;)
I hate to disappoint you but I didn't see anyone being pissed at you for your "escapades." What I did notice was the majority of the guys really don't like to be bullshitted and they let you know in no uncertain terms. For example, a guy in the business is not making any money on you and offers to help you and even spend money on you. That story is very hard to swallow. I believe it was MissA who was trying to get more info from you because she found some of your stories so far-fetched she forced to wear my boots.
I hope that clears some misunderstandings.
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For example, a guy in the business is not making any money on you and offers to help you and even spend money on you. That story is very hard to swallow. I believe it was MissA who was trying to get more info from you because she found some of your stories so far-fetched she forced to wear my boots.
Believe what you want. I am just reporting my experience. I paid some guy over $1000 for a tour and I used 3 days. I have not paid this other guy a penny. Some service vendors have "processed me". Others have shown more care.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/bycompany/for-him-dating-a416489.html (http://www.complaintsboard.com/bycompany/for-him-dating-a416489.html)
People that make money in the MOB industry have many translators and web people and it is sort of a clusterF$% of "He Said / She Said" It is impossible to sort out the truth, the lies, and how is on a vendetta.
My post shows my experience only. I have not profit motive, so do not question my motives.
ADULTS SHOULD READ THIS AND OTHER MATERIAL AND MAKE UP THERE OWN MIND
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Tim, that was a good post of yours where you tell about the situation with agencies, etc.
However, you and everyone else could have avoided all that BS by simply following the path laid out in my Pursuing FSUW 101 pinned to the top of this Starting section.
In that path, you have zero interaction with agency owners, those who are writing letters for the women, etc. You only write and talk directly with the women who post their profiles on the dating/match sites.
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In that path, you have zero interaction with agency owners, those who are writing letters for the women, etc. You only write and talk directly with the women who post their profiles on the dating/match sites.
It aint that simple. The factories morph into individual profiles and aliases too. And, then there are the true independents.
I know you can find people on language exchange boards, social networking ... but as soon as these girls are active on the internet independently? The auction and temptation begins
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It aint that simple. The factories morph into individual profiles and aliases too. And, then there are the true independents.
I know you can find people on language exchange boards, social networking ... but as soon as these girls are active on the internet independently? The auction and temptation begins
Do you mind re-phrasing this please if you could. I do not get what you mean at all.
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It aint that simple. The factories morph into individual profiles and aliases too. And, then there are the true independents.
I know you can find people on language exchange boards, social networking ... but as soon as these girls are active on the internet independently? The auction and temptation begins
Yes, it is just that simple as I lay out in Pursuing FSUW 101.
I have done it. There are none of the problems and situations you allude to.
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Rivardco,
I have read your posts daily since you started. I kept out of the fray because I did not want to rain on your parade. As ML pointed out, you could have chosen a safer, more proven path, but we are all individuals and want to use our own instincts. It's also difficult to evaluate the credibility of arm chair advisors that have not been in the dating scene or in country for years. Nevertheless, you had an experience that allowed you to learn a little about the culture of Ukraine and in particular, a lot about how the agencies and internet portals work. I can confirm most of what you say about the interaction between the 'feeder' agencies and the major portals they feed into. It was not until I had spent quite a bit of money on the dating sites and befriended a woman that actually worked for one, that I also learned the inside story on how they operate. That portion of your posts should be educational for anyone not yet scammed by the paid dating sites.
After a year or so of learning all this the hard way, my conclusion is to use only the (nearly free) dating sites and communicate with the women directly. I also quit communicating with most women that know no English. The hassle and pain that I went through with continual misunderstandings was just not worth it. I also concluded that a women that is serious about immigrating to the US should have made some effort on her own to learn a little English. If she has a computer, there are many ways she can do so on line without having to take expensive tutoring lessons.
The list of free dating sites that are posted on this forum is an excellent reference for men to use to make contact with women that are not registered with the MOB dating sites.
Since I will be coming to Ukraine for the 3rd time this summer for 2-3 months, I was interested in your experience with kicking back and making friends with the locals. Also, the potential of networking with locals to make new friends and possibly meeting women that might be intersted in me. You did not cover this aspect of your experience in much detail. I would be interested to learn if you were able to meet people in public places such as McDonald's, or other places that were friendly enough to develop a friendship and meet their other friends, etc.?
Since I already have more dates lined up in each city (via email and Skype) than I can possibly fulfill, I will not have a need to use any marriage agencies. Your comments about the agency women's point of view and their prior experiences explains a lot about why the agencies might not have many women that are serious about looking for a foreign husband. I can understand why they may become jaded after a while.
If you have time, please write a little about the approach you found successful in meeting the locals and establishing a friendship.
Bear in mind that this trip is not a wife hunting trip. It is rather an extended vacation to once again enjoy the culture and people of Ukraine. If I find someone with mutual chemistry fine, if not that is fine also. There have been several TV programs on the Military History Channel recently about the tank battles fought in Ukraine and I would like to visit some of these sites while I am there.
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There have been several TV programs on the Military History Channel recently about the tank battles fought in Ukraine and I would like to visit some of these sites while I am there.
In Russia, rather than Ukraine, but I highly recommend the 'based on actual story' movie "Enemy at the Gates." The ultimate cat and mouse game between two snipers.
And even a very sensual sex scene between Vasily and the young woman (Rachel Weisz). If you dream of associating with an 'aggressive' FSUW, you will like her. 8)
The main Soviet character, Vasily Zaitsev (Zaytsev) was real, and he said several times in the film that his dream after the war was to work in a factory.
From: Wikipedia: During the Battle of Stalingrad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad) he killed 225 soldiers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers) and officers of the Wehrmacht (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht) and other Axis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_Powers) armies, including 11 enemy snipers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper). February 22, 1943, Zaytsev was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_the_Soviet_Union). After the war, Zaytsev settled in Kiev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiev), where he studied at a textile university before he obtained employment as engineer. He rose to become the director of a textile factory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory) in Kiev, and remained in that city until he died in 1991 at the age of 76, just 10 days before the final dissolution of the Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union).
See some teaser clips here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyLMG6krZf8&feature=related
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/284172/rachel_weisz_sex_scene_from_enemy_at_the_gates/
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If you have time, please write a little about the approach you found successful in meeting the locals and establishing a friendship.
Good on you for using internet to develop relationships in advance! This is your third extended trip, so you have a little language, right? I have VERY VERY little. I just started studying Russian 4 weeks ago. I am a catastrophy as a Russian speaker, but I bump around.
Locals are cold until they see you a few times. I have not climbed the social later here as I did in the DR and Colombia. It does seem like a closed system here. I don't get the impression that the wealthy are the slightly interested in a foreigner. i was surprised by the negative impressions have with foriegners dating Urkainian women?!?!?!? I was not prepared for that.
I met people easily in clubs, but I developed a personality for that. About 3 weeks ago, I was in a bar and I was on my way to getting drunk, dancing, and staying out late. I took a shot of vodka. Then a light went off in my head and said NO. I followed it up with a water and in two hours I was sober. That is the last of me and clubs for a while, maybe ever?
Regular people? It is hit and miss - sometimes they are cold, other times they are completely genuine and kind
Just be open and happy and you will attract those type of people
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If you have time, please write a little about the approach you found successful in meeting the locals and establishing a friendship.
I'm guilty of doing what I'm about to mention, so I live in a house of glass, too. The word friend has been stretched to where it almost means nothing. A real friend is someone who'll take a bullet for you. (Otherwise they are just random background people.) In the main, a friend will sacrifice for you and you will sacrifice for them. These sort of human relationships are hardly ever developed in a short amount of time.
I'm suggesting that the word friend loses all of its power if we misuse it. That is all.
P.S.
If you have a true friend in this world, count yourself lucky.
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In short, the old saying:
A friend in need is a friend in deed
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Quote from ML:
In Russia, rather than Ukraine, but I highly recommend the 'based on actual story' movie "Enemy at the Gates." The ultimate cat and mouse game between two snipers.
No, I actually meant Ukraine. There were a lot of tank battles between the Germans and Russians in Ukraine. On a show last night called "Narrow Escapes" there were big tank battles in Ukriane near the Black Sea and Sea of Azov. Unfurtunately, I did not tune in until near the end of the show. It was intersting to see the battles illustrated on a map and recognize many of the Ukraine cities I am familiar with. I hope it gets replayed so that I can watch the whole thing.
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If you do a google map of the city of Kharkiv, you can still see the bomb craters south of the city.
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Eric von Manstein's autobiography "Lost Victories" details a lot of the German-Soviet engagements throughout Crimea, southern and eastern Ukraine. A very good read. When my wife and I next return to Ukraine for a visit she has promised to take my boys and I on a driving tour to many of the battle locations set forth in that book.
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After reading through this thread, I find myself still craving data. I have noted a few good red lights, but no green lights. Do some of the more experienced members have some positive signs to look for? I'm hoping to spend more time looking for green lights, than red lights.
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If you focus too early on just one woman, you are at the mercy of and will worry about red lights.
If you spread a wide net early in the game, then you will see many, many green lights.
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Green or red flags!!! Is there Orange flags? lol
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White flag could be useful in some situations.
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Now if there were lots more blue flags( to mix with yellow ones).........then we would have more green flags!!!!
I still think there should be yellow flags.....which either turn into red ones or green ones....
My favorite C's in this journey........Careful and cautious
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Ah, well for me some I can think of for
RED Light Her;
Pay Attention to #1, 99%+ of scammers are in it for the ............money, if you never give anyone money, how can they scam you?, you know what I am saying?
1) Asks for money for any reason without history between you and her (history defined; met in person, in serious relationship, met the family etc.), now you must use a little common sense, if you take her out to eat, pay for the whole deal. However if this madly in love with you woman who has never seen you in real life, but now is somehow trapped in Africa and lost her US passport and needs $3,500 to get home, but she refuses to go to the US Embassy for help... is a Scam
as a side story; the above #1 did happen to me with a "woman" I met online, she told me that she was in Africa traveling after a couple of weeks of get to know you... she got robbed and lost her plane ticket, passport, money, and now she had no way to get home, but she was from the US. She said she needed $3,500 to buy a new ticket home. I told her "no problem... here is what I want you to do. Go to the US embassy located at such and such address in the city she was in."
There was a momentary pause and I continued "once you get to the embassy call me on my phone and I will make sure the embassy gets you everything you need including a new passport, plane ticket, hotel fair until flight, and taxi services.."
Of course somehow that was just not possible for this stranded US citizen to go to the US embassy. It only took a couple more questions and she was exposed as a Scam. Well I only lost a little time after a dozen emails and some IM time with her over a couple of weeks, but no money ;)
2) She won't write through regular email
3) She won't video Skype.... Sometimes it may take a while of corresponding before you do so, but if she really is who she says she is (and not a different person or gender all together), and she is really there looking for a serious relationship, she should be just as interested in seeing you as you are of seeing her.
Also another thing on Skype or any free video calling software; the ability to see the other person is critical in "getting to know each other".
When you see someone, the body language tells you so much, what makes her blush, what grosses her out, what does she laugh at, how does she move, these are signals you get from visual cues you basically cannot get from just email, IM, or even phone calls.
4) Extreme, abrupt, and unwarranted mood swings. Or she is just plain crazy.
5) Is only interested in being with you when you are doing expensive stuff that she wants to do, typically going shopping on your credit card.
6) You have to pay to talk to her
7) She has an agency (I know there are many good agencies, it just was not the path I wanted to go)
Minor Red light...... if she has no time to talk or skype, and is too busy... Well sometimes it is that way in life and you have to be patient, but if after a few weeks things don't change... maybe it is better to move on.
Green Light Her;
1) You video Skype right away, and in my case we did so only a couple days after finding each other on the dating site.
2) She is at a dating site that offers no paid services for anything
3) She offers or is willing to pay for part of your travels or stays while you visit her, I refused to let her pay for anything though, it was my trip and I paid for all of it. For me that was a major green light.
4) She introduces you to her family, friends, and work
5) She has subconscious visual signals when you are together with you
6) She connects with you on Facebook
7) She likes spending time with you, even just doing the simple stuff like cooking and cleaning.
8) She is a good person
9) She likes the same things I do and thinks the same about major issues
10) Her and I are comfortable talking about many different subjects, even those of differing view points. Be open and honest, you both will want to know the real person.
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Ah, well for me some I can think of for
RED Light Her;
Pay Attention to #1, 99%+ of scammers are in it for the ............money, if you never give anyone money, how can they scam you?, you know what I am saying?
1) Asks for money for any reason without history between you and her (history defined; met in person, in serious relationship, met the family etc.), now you must use a little common sense, if you take her out to eat, pay for the whole deal. However if this madly in love with you woman who has never seen you in real life, but now is somehow trapped in Africa and lost her US passport and needs $3,500 to get home, but she refuses to go to the US Embassy for help... is a Scam
as a side story; the above #1 did happen to me with a "woman" I met online, she told me that she was in Africa traveling after a couple of weeks of get to know you... she got robbed and lost her plane ticket, passport, money, and now she had no way to get home, but she was from the US. She said she needed $3,500 to buy a new ticket home. I told her "no problem... here is what I want you to do. Go to the US embassy located at such and such address in the city she was in."
There was a momentary pause and I continued "once you get to the embassy call me on my phone and I will make sure the embassy gets you everything you need including a new passport, plane ticket, hotel fair until flight, and taxi services.."
Of course somehow that was just not possible for this stranded US citizen to go to the US embassy. It only took a couple more questions and she was exposed as a Scam. Well I only lost a little time after a dozen emails and some IM time with her over a couple of weeks, but no money ;)
2) She won't write through regular email
3) She won't video Skype.... Sometimes it may take a while of corresponding before you do so, but if she really is who she says she is (and not a different person or gender all together), and she is really there looking for a serious relationship, she should be just as interested in seeing you as you are of seeing her.
Also another thing on Skype or any free video calling software; the ability to see the other person is critical in "getting to know each other".
When you see someone, the body language tells you so much, what makes her blush, what grosses her out, what does she laugh at, how does she move, these are signals you get from visual cues you basically cannot get from just email, IM, or even phone calls.
4) Extreme, abrupt, and unwarranted mood swings. Or she is just plain crazy.
5) Is only interested in being with you when you are doing expensive stuff that she wants to do, typically going shopping on your credit card.
6) You have to pay to talk to her
7) She has an agency (I know there are many good agencies, it just was not the path I wanted to go)
Minor Red light...... if she has no time to talk or skype, and is too busy... Well sometimes it is that way in life and you have to be patient, but if after a few weeks things don't change... maybe it is better to move on.
Green Light Her;
1) You video Skype right away, and in my case we did so only a couple days after finding each other on the dating site.
2) She is at a dating site that offers no paid services for anything
3) She offers or is willing to pay for part of your travels or stays while you visit her, I refused to let her pay for anything though, it was my trip and I paid for all of it. For me that was a major green light.
4) She introduces you to her family, friends, and work
5) She has subconscious visual signals when you are together with you
6) She connects with you on Facebook
7) She likes spending time with you, even just doing the simple stuff like cooking and cleaning.
8) She is a good person
9) She likes the same things I do and thinks the same about major issues
10) Her and I are comfortable talking about many different subjects, even those of differing view points. Be open and honest, you both will want to know the real person.
Excellent. Just what I needed to know. Thank you for taking the time to write it. As I read the red lights, I remembered one girl I met a few years back who was 'trapped' in Africa. I just blocked her and moved on. I see the money requests as an easy stop flag regardless of the reason. My feeling, she survived 18+ years without my money, she will make it until we are married without it too.
When I read the green list, I found several that I recognized. I am fortunate enough to have met my girl on Facebook, and a family dinner is first on the list, followed by lunch and meeting some folks from her work.
10 days and counting, till I am in Russia!
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Ah, well for me some I can think of for
RED Light Her;
.....................
Very true! I agree: no agency, meet with famely and a lot of Skype.
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Ah, well for me some I can think of for
RED Light Her;
Pay Attention to #1, 99%+ of scammers are in it for the ............money, if you never give anyone money, how can they scam you?, you know what I am saying?
1) Asks for money for any reason without history between you and her (history defined; met in person, in serious relationship, met the family etc.), now you must use a little common sense, if you take her out to eat, pay for the whole deal. However if this madly in love with you woman who has never seen you in real life, but now is somehow trapped in Africa and lost her US passport and needs $3,500 to get home, but she refuses to go to the US Embassy for help... is a Scam
as a side story; the above #1 did happen to me with a "woman" I met online, she told me that she was in Africa traveling after a couple of weeks of get to know you... she got robbed and lost her plane ticket, passport, money, and now she had no way to get home, but she was from the US. She said she needed $3,500 to buy a new ticket home. I told her "no problem... here is what I want you to do. Go to the US embassy located at such and such address in the city she was in."
There was a momentary pause and I continued "once you get to the embassy call me on my phone and I will make sure the embassy gets you everything you need including a new passport, plane ticket, hotel fair until flight, and taxi services.."
Of course somehow that was just not possible for this stranded US citizen to go to the US embassy. It only took a couple more questions and she was exposed as a Scam. Well I only lost a little time after a dozen emails and some IM time with her over a couple of weeks, but no money ;)
2) She won't write through regular email
3) She won't video Skype.... Sometimes it may take a while of corresponding before you do so, but if she really is who she says she is (and not a different person or gender all together), and she is really there looking for a serious relationship, she should be just as interested in seeing you as you are of seeing her.
Also another thing on Skype or any free video calling software; the ability to see the other person is critical in "getting to know each other".
When you see someone, the body language tells you so much, what makes her blush, what grosses her out, what does she laugh at, how does she move, these are signals you get from visual cues you basically cannot get from just email, IM, or even phone calls.
4) Extreme, abrupt, and unwarranted mood swings. Or she is just plain crazy.
5) Is only interested in being with you when you are doing expensive stuff that she wants to do, typically going shopping on your credit card.
6) You have to pay to talk to her
7) She has an agency (I know there are many good agencies, it just was not the path I wanted to go)
Minor Red light...... if she has no time to talk or skype, and is too busy... Well sometimes it is that way in life and you have to be patient, but if after a few weeks things don't change... maybe it is better to move on.
Green Light Her;
1) You video Skype right away, and in my case we did so only a couple days after finding each other on the dating site.
2) She is at a dating site that offers no paid services for anything
3) She offers or is willing to pay for part of your travels or stays while you visit her, I refused to let her pay for anything though, it was my trip and I paid for all of it. For me that was a major green light.
4) She introduces you to her family, friends, and work
5) She has subconscious visual signals when you are together with you
6) She connects with you on Facebook
7) She likes spending time with you, even just doing the simple stuff like cooking and cleaning.
8) She is a good person
9) She likes the same things I do and thinks the same about major issues
10) Her and I are comfortable talking about many different subjects, even those of differing view points. Be open and honest, you both will want to know the real person.
Well written, Kmin ;)
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The biggest red flag anyone should avoid is getting relationship advice from men in the internet they do not know.
There are men in these fora that had miserably failed in their past and/or recent relationships, have had multiple divorcees, the socially inept, the closet characters, the emotionally unstable, etc...If you have to rely on these types of men to give you direction in your life, then nothing FSUWs can ever do that will even be equally damaging to you.
Generate FSU travel tips and advice only and you should be fine.
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The biggest red flag anyone should avoid is getting relationship advice from men in the internet they do not know.
I have never listened to them anyway
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ORANGE FLAG (Between red and green flags)
Eliminate these ladies who:
1/ do not answer your questions
2/ are on multi-chat (Yahoo/MSN/Skype)
3/ not turning up any arranged appointments (especially did not explain the reasons after)
4/ haven't written to you for days, claiming they were away on 'business' trip (I would have informed her if I were going on business trip)
Orange flag - Not serious in their search (=no green), but also not necessary scammers (=no red)
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RED FLAG PROFESSIONS:
A doctor who doesn't know what to say when I told her I have a very bad headache
An interior designer who is wearing poor colour combinations (or clothing that is out of proportion, or poor balance)
A lawyer who doesn't know where to obtain a visa from
A travel agency who doesn't know how to get into Odessa from Kiev (for example)
If you come across with ladies who told you of their profession, make sure you ask them some questions. You will be surprised that many ladies do not work what they have written on the profiles. Just "wannabe".
I have met a lady online who claimed that she is an interior designer and is the boss. I did not believe her because I can see her photos that she was wearing a dress with poor colour combinations. All Interior designers train to know about colour combinations, balance and proportions. I also asked her more about interior design, but she did not seem to know about it.
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ORANGE FLAG (Between red and green flags)
Eliminate these ladies who:
1/ do not answer your questions
2/ are on multi-chat (Yahoo/MSN/Skype)
3/ not turning up any arranged appointments (especially did not explain the reasons after)
4/ haven't written to you for days, claiming they were away on 'business' trip (I would have informed her if I were going on business trip)
Orange flag - Not serious in their search (=no green), but also not necessary scammers (=no red)
I agree except for your number 2.
I see nothing wrong with everyone (women and men) using all forms of communication that are available to us in today's world.
As I understand it, the advice being given in this thread applies to beginning situations. No one has been proposed to yet or accepted. So why should any woman or man not be able to correspond with any number of persons of the opposite gender that they wish to?
Now, after an engagement, that would be a different story.
Also, in your conclusion, it doesn't mean they are not serious in their search; just not serious about the particular man (woman).
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RED FLAG PROFESSIONS:
A doctor who doesn't know what to say when I told her I have a very bad headache
An interior designer who is wearing poor colour combinations (or clothing that is out of proportion, or poor balance)
A lawyer who doesn't know where to obtain a visa from
A travel agency who doesn't know how to get into Odessa from Kiev (for example)
If you come across with ladies who told you of their profession, make sure you ask them some questions. You will be surprised that many ladies do not work what they have written on the profiles. Just "wannabe".
I have met a lady online who claimed that she is an interior designer and is the boss. I did not believe her because I can see her photos that she was wearing a dress with poor colour combinations. All Interior designers train to know about colour combinations, balance and proportions. I also asked her more about interior design, but she did not seem to know about it.
The lady I am visiting said she worked at a large multinational company. I verified it when I sent flowers to her at work. I got verification and points all in one!
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The biggest red flag anyone should avoid is getting relationship advice from men in the internet they do not know.
I don't see any great harm in reading/listening to relationship advice from any and all persons . . . if you have the time.
Then you can pick and choose those bits of advice that seem to fit the current situation you are facing.
Granted, blindly following the advice of unknown persons probably indicates a very weak person who is unlikely to be successful in many aspects of life.
But tossing around ideas . . . I have picked up a few gems from many persons in my life . . . some from quite unexpected sources.
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If you come across with ladies who told you of their profession, make sure you ask them some questions. You will be surprised that many ladies do not work what they have written on the profiles. Just "wannabe".
I have met a lady online who claimed that she is an interior designer and is the boss. I did not believe her because I can see her photos that she was wearing a dress with poor colour combinations. All Interior designers train to know about colour combinations, balance and proportions. I also asked her more about interior design, but she did not seem to know about it.
Do you think this guys outfit would be more balanced with black boxer shorts? 8)
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Do you think this guys outfit would be more balanced with black boxer shorts? 8)
It's all about contrast... In any case not something I would wear, balanced or not.
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I think the biggest mistakes I made while in Ukraine was white knighting and allowing bad behavior to pass because of "cultural differences."
If you look for flags you will find them in any relationship. So I caution that approach.
All you really need to do is ask yourself if you were dating locally, would you accept that type of behavior? I would also ask yourself if you were dating locally, would you behave this way?
Those questions will have a high probability of weeding out insincere women and also keep yourself in check. ;)
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Do you think this guys outfit would be more balanced with black boxer shorts? 8)
What guy? :-*
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Do you think this guys outfit would be more balanced with black boxer shorts? 8)
This lady looks awful in red - not just this gay man
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This lady looks awful in red - not just this gay man
This lady is Milla Jovovich and this gay man is Marc Jacobs. Are you sure you know anything about design and/or designers to question anyone's understandings about colour combinations, balance and proportions?
Oh, and if you would know anything about design then you would have know that designers are the 1st ones that break the rules. 8)
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The biggest red flag anyone should avoid is getting relationship advice from men in the internet they do not know.
There are men in these fora that had miserably failed in their past and/or recent relationships, have had multiple divorcees, the socially inept, the closet characters, the emotionally unstable, etc...If you have to rely on these types of men to give you direction in your life, then nothing FSUWs can ever do that will even be equally damaging to you.
Generate FSU travel tips and advice only and you should be fine.
Exactly.
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This lady is Milla Jovovich and this gay man is Marc Jacobs. Are you sure you know anything about design and/or designers to question anyone's understandings about colour combinations, balance and proportions?
Oh, and if you would know anything about design then you would have know that designers are the 1st ones that break the rules. 8)
Milla Jovovich or not, still looks awful with that dress! If your not either Fashion Stylist or Interior Designer, you wouldn't understand about colour theory
If you think designers are the 1st ones that break the rules, can you find anyone else wearing the dress that this gay man was wearing ?? !!! If GATOR wears this, then I'll cycle from London to Kiev for a charity!!!
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Milla Jovovich or not, still looks awful with that dress!
Thats just your taste, what you personally like or dislike.
If your not either Fashion Stylist or Interior Designer, you wouldn't understand about colour theory
Yeah right, such complicated sience can be only tackled by Fashion Stylists and Interior Designers.
If you think designers are the 1st ones that break the rules, can you find anyone else wearing the dress that this gay man was wearing ?? !!! If GATOR wears this, then I'll cycle from London to Kiev for a charity!!!
This is comiical, if you dont know that Marc Jacobs is one of influential people in fashion industry and a designer of :rolleyes: Marc Jacobs Collection, then its hopeless to even attempt to explain you how ridiculous is to judge someones professionalism based on color scheme of outfit on one of the photos. As of lace shirt dress ... it comes from Comme des Garçons. Designers rarely wear their own designs and their choice is based on their own style and preferences (as anyone else), those choices do not devalue their ability of being creative and professional when its comes to their work.
As of Gator, I cant comment on his behalf but I doubted he would dislike his better half to wear that lace dress as a nightshirt :P
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Thats just your taste, what you personally like or dislike.
Yeah right, such complicated sience can be only tackled by Fashion Stylists and Interior Designers.
This is comiical, if you dont know that Marc Jacobs is one of influential people in fashion industry and a designer of :rolleyes: Marc Jacobs Collection, then its hopeless to even attempt to explain you how ridiculous is to judge someones professionalism based on color scheme of outfit on one of the photos. As of lace shirt dress ... it comes from Comme des Garçons. Designers rarely wear their own designs and their choice is based on their own style and preferences (as anyone else), those choices do not devalue their ability of being creative and professional when its comes to their work.
As of Gator, I cant comment on his behalf but I doubted he would dislike his better half to wear that lace dress as a nightshirt :P
ONLY GAY MEN will wear that dress that Marc Jacobs was wearing, but the real question who else is wearing that? !!
Being as a fashion designer does not always mean they will sell them for us to wear. Sometimes it is for "arts"
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ONLY GAY MEN will wear that dress that Marc Jacobs was wearing, but the real question who else is wearing that? !!
Being as a fashion designer does not always mean they will sell them for us to wear. Sometimes it is for "arts"
I am not sure its possible to follow your logic.
You stated you met a lady that claimed to be interior designer but you didnt believe her because she was wearing a dress with poor colour combinations.
I gave you example of of a world known designer that wears dress that you seems to dislike but nevertheless his personal taste, Marc Jacobs designs not only popular on catwalk but also in day-to-day wear amongst millions of people.
You fixated that he is a gay, ignoring the fact that I explained the dress wasnt designed by Marc Jacobs but by Comme des Garçons (Japanese fashion label). I include for you photos of some outfits from Marc Jacobs spring collection.
Now, please, explain what personal taste of a designer has to do with professionalism? And how you can say someone is just "wannabe" because their personal choice in clothes doesnt match yours views on fashion?
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I am not sure its possible to follow your logic.
You stated you met a lady that claimed to be interior designer but you didnt believe her because she was wearing a dress with poor colour combinations.
I gave you example of of a world known designer that wears dress that you seems to dislike but nevertheless his personal taste, Marc Jacobs designs not only popular on catwalk but also in day-to-day wear amongst millions of people.
You fixated that he is a gay, ignoring the fact that I explained the dress wasnt designed by Marc Jacobs but by Comme des Garçons (Japanese fashion label). I include for you photos of some outfits from Marc Jacobs spring collection.
Now, please, explain what personal taste of a designer has to do with professionalism? And how you can say someone is just "wannabe" because their personal choice in clothes doesnt match yours views on fashion?
These photos you showed me do have very poor colour combinations, and his collection is beyond joke!
Are you going to pay $600 for 1 piece of clothes from that photo you saw ???? NOT WORTH $600
you are buyinh $600 for the model who catwalked, and of course for Marc Jacobs' pocket !!!
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These photos you showed me do have very poor colour combinations, and his collection is beyond joke!
Are you going to pay $600 for 1 piece of clothes from that photo you saw ???? NOT WORTH $600
you are buyinh $600 for the model who catwalked, and of course for Marc Jacobs' pocket !!!
I only started this conversation because you stated the following below and previously on this forum claimed to be in the fashion business.
I have met a lady online who claimed that she is an interior designer and is the boss. I did not believe her because I can see her photos that she was wearing a dress with poor colour combinations. All Interior designers train to know about colour combinations, balance and proportions. I also asked her more about interior design, but she did not seem to know about it.
Based on your comments about fashion, catwalks, color combinations, models, designers, prices for garments etc in this thread alone I am struggling to believe as well you have any knowledge about fashion business. Moral: you cant always decide what is true or what is not based solely on your own experience and knowledge.
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Time to bump up the topic
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After reading through this thread, I find myself still craving data. I have noted a few good red lights,
but no green lights. Do some of the more experienced members have some positive signs to look for?
I'm hoping to spend more time looking for green lights, than red lights.
Green lights:
She gazes at you with a smile when you are not looking. She talks
about you admiringly in Russian to her friends. Real tears (with real
nose snot) when you are going to go back home. She touches you
almost every time she is in the same room as you.
She inspects you when you both are about to leave the apartment to go
to the store or where ever. You clothes are washed and hung up on a rope
to dry then ironed to military standards after you throw them on the floor
of the closet. Your underwear gets ironed.
There are more, but you need the social skills to watch her and read
expressions, body language, etc. etc. Your friends and family fall in
love with her.