Red Flags and Green Lights !!!

[IAmZon]

Please list the Red Flags that most offend or scare you.  Just chime in.   We will have a big list of RED FLAGS in a couple days.

[calmissile]

"I am pregnant!"

     (followed with....)

"Return immediately and marry me!"

[newjason]

ooo
I have some.


in no particular order

1.
She Ignores you most of the time, until she needs something.

2.
She doesn't ask any questions about you or your life, But professes her eternal love for him and talks about marriage and commitment.
3.
She will not talk to you on the telephone.

4.
She doesn't speak the same language.

now for the Guys

1.
He claims it's "his girl" or "his Lady" without ever seeing her in person.

2.
He thinks a large age gap with a girl under 24 is fine.

3.
He thinks seriously about love and marriage and even makes plans in written letters, having never met
her.

4.
He doesn't speak the same language.

5.
Asking any woman to marry after knowing her IN PERSON with face time of less than 60 days.

6.
He talks about local women as if they are damaged and he can not consider marriage to any local woman to justify his looking to the FSU.

[SANDRO43]

29 of them (the answers in red and blue) on the Scammer Score Card (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=37) .

[Shadow]

Not fully red but pretty scary...

[missAmeno]

Red flags in no particular order

1. Talks disrespectfully about any woman inc ex
2. Does any type of whining and complaining
3. Tell lies
4. Talks too much about ex, past relationships or attempts to talk with how many women he has been involved in his life
5. On dating profile has photo of him shirtless or just in speedos/trunks
6. Does any kind of bragging
7. Arrogant or self-centered
8. Attempts to talk about sex or makes sexual references early in communication or/and prior meeting in real life
9. Anything that could indicate he has aggressive, abusive or controlling tendencies
10. Suffer with clinginess
11. Shows any signs of addictive behaviour
12. Too flirtatious

[IAmZon]

The scammer score card is interesting, but perhaps outdated.  (I will get to why I think so throughout this thread).  Excellent points Miss Ameno from the female perspective.

Moving beyond email communication, which almost can not be taken seriously these days, when making initial contact. Specifically, when you meet a woman in her country in the first week- with or with out an agency - what are the RED FLAGS. 

(I know there are many that will "pitch a fit" as this thread continues, HERE IS your chance to help form the conversation now, rather than be superficially argumentative later)

[JayH]

Red flags in no particular order

1. Talks disrespectfully about any woman inc ex
2. Does any type of whining and complaining
3. Tell lies
4. Talks too much about ex, past relationships or attempts to talk with how many women he has been involved in his life
5. On dating profile has photo of him shirtless or just in speedos/trunks
6. Does any kind of bragging
7. Arrogant or self-centered
8. Attempts to talk about sex or makes sexual references early in communication or/and prior meeting in real life
9. Anything that could indicate he has aggressive, abusive or controlling tendencies
10. Suffer with clinginess
11. Shows any signs of addictive behaviour
12. Too flirtatious

Hi again missA( new place for me--see if I get as much attention here with my innocent questions!)
Most of what you say is how I would behave--ie not doing what you list.The biggest problem for me when I started my journey was to talk about myself--I was not used to doing it.
The other side of the coin seems to me that Ukraine women do not seem to respect quiet politeness. Hard to explain exactly what I mean here-- but when I say-- I easy--you choose-- I have heard in scornfull tone-- you are a man? !!

[Daveman]

...
The other side of the coin seems to me that Ukraine women do not seem to respect quiet politeness. Hard to explain exactly what I mean here-- but when I say-- I easy--you choose-- I have heard in scornfull tone-- you are a man? !!

LoL... welcome to the insanity.. 


"I easy--you choose" will usually attract at least a strange look into your world..  there's a lot of talk about "be a man and make the decisions" but the problem you face is even more diabolical than you imagine... and here is the nutshell...




Women love to bitch..
Women love even more to blame the man...
Women have standing multiple orgasms when they can combine these two..      get it?   

[Shadow]

Red flags on the first meeting:
- she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact
- plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled
- the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.
- she avoids attempts for serious conversation
- her SMS keeps being very busy

[IAmZon]

Excellent, this is the stuff I was hoping for ...

Red flags on the first meeting:
- she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact
- plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled
- the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.
- she avoids attempts for serious conversation
- her SMS keeps being very busy

1,  she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact. 

Let's think about this.  If the date is an agency appointment, or a simple internet meeting .... it is REALLY NOT "a date."  (The exception, of course, would be if you wrote a REAL woman for months and weeks before a meeting)

2, - plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled

Alarming, but life is hard and unpredicatble here.  These people have to cope with less than a perfect range of options and choices.

3, - the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.

If you are meeting too many people, or if the girl is meeting too many people (ie "tours") IT DOES FEEL LIKE WORK.  But, in a normal environment, there must be engagement at a minimum.

4, - she avoids attempts for serious conversation

EXCELLENT POINT

5, - her SMS keeps being very busy

Tough call.  If she is young and like teenage texting - well, most of that should not be in that situation in the first place.   If she is older and they are work related (employees of all types are under great demand)

PLEASE, let's continue ...

[vwrw]

The other side of the coin seems to me that Ukraine women do not seem to respect quiet politeness. Hard to explain exactly what I mean here-- but when I say-- I easy--you choose-- I have heard in scornfull tone-- you are a man? !!

I guess Ukraine women are NOT conditioned to  associate the response  "I easy--you choose" with politeness. They associate it with a lack of desire to cooperate while you were asked for it. In my opinion, when FSUW asks you to pick an alternative, it is similar to a request for help in decision making and replaying with "you choose" appears as a refusal to  cooperate, not as a polite reply. With the scornful tone, they disapprove of your non cooperation, not your effort to be polite 

[Shadow]

Excellent, this is the stuff I was hoping for ...

Red flags on the first meeting:
- she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact
- plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled
- the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.
- she avoids attempts for serious conversation
- her SMS keeps being very busy

1,  she keeps a distance when walking not allowing physical contact. 

Let's think about this.  If the date is an agency appointment, or a simple internet meeting .... it is REALLY NOT "a date."  (The exception, of course, would be if you wrote a REAL woman for months and weeks before a meeting)

2, - plans to meet family and friends are suddenly rescheduled

Alarming, but life is hard and unpredicatble here.  These people have to cope with less than a perfect range of options and choices.

3, - the times of meeting seem a lot like working times.

If you are meeting too many people, or if the girl is meeting too many people (ie "tours") IT DOES FEEL LIKE WORK.  But, in a normal environment, there must be engagement at a minimum.

4, - she avoids attempts for serious conversation

EXCELLENT POINT

5, - her SMS keeps being very busy

Tough call.  If she is young and like teenage texting - well, most of that should not be in that situation in the first place.   If she is older and they are work related (employees of all types are under great demand)

PLEASE, let's continue ...

Do not try to find excuses.
You are determining if she is interested enough in YOU to be marriage material.
1. It has been said that a woman decides within 5 seconds if she would like sex with you or not. This means that avoding physical contact while walking is a sign her mind said no.
2. Even if a woman is meeting many foreigners she will only introduce those to her friends and family that she wants a further opinion on. If everyone suddenly becomes unavailable chances are she is doing the canceling, not them.
3. If meeting people feels like work, she does not want to spoil her free time with a potential life partner ?
5. Once again, it shows the level of interest. If someone is more interested in her SMS contacts as in a potential life partner, you know her priorities.
The priority of work in the FSU is MUCH lower as it is in the US or Western Europe. If her job is so important that she has to give attention to it while not there, one has to wonder if she will leave her job for you.

[Shadow]

I guess Ukraine women are NOT conditioned to  associate the response  "I easy--you choose" with politeness. They associate it with a lack of desire to cooperate while you were asked for it. In my opinion, when FSUW asks you to pick an alternative, it is similar to a request for help in decision making and replaying with "you choose" appears as a refusal to  cooperate, not as a polite reply.

You are correct. The thing is that if she asks 'maybe we will have sex'  you will not even think of suggesting an alternative or tell her ' you choose' ....

[vwrw]

6. Does any kind of bragging

Miss Ameno, what is wrong with informing others about your accomplishments?

[ML]

You are correct. The thing is that if she asks 'maybe we will have sex'  you will not even think of suggesting an alternative or tell her ' you choose' ....

But they almost never use the words 'maybe we will have sex.'

Rather they say:  "I will now go take a shower."

[ML]

Most of the red and green flag ideas are just common sense, and apply to men/women in any country.

Yes, there are a few cultural differences that might mean a red flag in one culture whereas that same act would not be a red flag in another culture.  But those are not many in number.

Despite all the talk about cultural differences between FSU folks and American folks, I haven't really had many awkward situations at all concerning  this.

I  never even had any problems with this idea of 'be the man and make the choices.'  I just frankly told  the women in pre-meeting emails that they would  be much more familiar than I about things in their city, and that they should be prepared to suggest things to do, places to go, places to eat, etc.  And they all did exactly that.

But then, by my telling this pre-meeting, that may have satisfied the requirement that I 'be the man.'

However, in general, the  idea of 'what does it mean' when the gal: reschedules meeting with family, seems to be too busy with work, takes too many phone calls when you are together, etc.  . . . .

merely points up the advantages of the WMVM approach.

Under that approach . . . you simply quit wasting time, stop trying to figure her out, and just move on.

[missAmeno]

Miss Ameno, what is wrong with informing others about your accomplishments?

There is fine line between talking about accomplishments and bragging. Someone can mention his/her cetain accomplishment once in awhile when its appropriate in conversation and someone else will mention it every 30 minutes for the rest of his/her life. 

[IAmZon]

Do not try to find excuses.
You are determining if she is interested enough in YOU to be marriage material.
1. It has been said that a woman decides within 5 seconds if she would like sex with you or not. This means that avoiding physical contact while walking is a sign her mind said no.
2. Even if a woman is meeting many foreigners she will only introduce those to her friends and family that she wants a further opinion on. If everyone suddenly becomes unavailable chances are she is doing the canceling, not them.
3. If meeting people feels like work, she does not want to spoil her free time with a potential life partner ?
5. Once again, it shows the level of interest. If someone is more interested in her SMS contacts as in a potential life partner, you know her priorities.
The priority of work in the FSU is MUCH lower as it is in the US or Western Europe. If her job is so important that she has to give attention to it while not there, one has to wonder if she will leave her job for you.

Are we going to advance the SAME OLD MOB narrative?  Email communication and Social Networking has changed very much over the last 3 years.  The proportion of girls with access to computers and a little English is much higher than 5 years ago. There are very compromised human beings looking for a better life.  There are middle men and business that are trying to make a buck.  Here's my thoughts ...

1, ALL of these initial dates are NOT DATES in the real sense of the word - not by a mile. The promoters sell them as dates, with the strong inference that the woman is actually interested in the man. I have been on 10 first dates, of those two had a sexy vibe to it. Both women were "looking for something" from me.  They were not happy  in their life and content.  The subsequent meetings are where a basis of chemistry is built, or observed.  (But, maybe I am just poky and slow to pick up on physical suggestions)

2, Most women here hold their family's opinion in VERY HIGH regard.  So, what would be the normal time frame for a well adjusted, accurate thinking human being to bring a man to meet the family?  2 days - 5 days?

3, If a woman, or man has 3 meetings in a day (very common for tours), it sure as hell felt like work to me.  (By the end of the day, I did not give a crap if it was Superwoman on the other side of the table, I was ordering a glass of wine and not talking about my hobbies.)

4, SMS interuptions on a FIRST or SECOND date.  There are limits for sure.  But, I just gotta say that there was a lack of LOVE AND DEVOTION in the first 60 minutes I experienced with meetings through agencies (HAHAHAHA).  There were a couple that were pushy, but most of the very attractive women that had good occupations and English skills did not fit into the "cookie cutter" image of fresh and available to any foreign man with a pulse. 

(HELL, I know a handful of guys that continue travelling around Ukraine after the tour doing followup with girls who they already met, and WHO EXPRESSED CONTINUED interest in them!   These subsequent meetings are not going NEARLY AS WELL as the men hoped.  My point is that it is not just "shooting fish in a barrel"  To say so, is not dealing in reality - or, referencing reality as it existed 10 years ago.

This is not personal.  I think negative stereotypes and the actual amount of TIME it requires to position yourself as a serious potential husband can not be accomplished with women who are NOT IN A COMPROMISED position in 3 - 5 days.  This position is VACANT in the normal MOB Narrative, and simply noting this is a service to those who are considering making a trip like this nowadays.

It is true, I struggled for the first 10 days because I was not used to a woman that controlled herself  LOL   I was use to "loose" women - I admit it.   PLUS, I was reading the MOB narrative - flawed.  Some may want to take note! If I tried to make make a decision to hold em, or fold em, in 5 seconds or 10 days, my current relationship would not have gone anywhere.  I think that is the norm going forward because the women are communicating more effectively to the outside world - and the interest and attention they receive without middlemen enables them to reevaluate their value and choices.

My intended purpose here was to EXPAND on the MOB narrative.

[IAmZon]

you simply quit wasting time, stop trying to figure her out, and just move on.
 

 THANK YOU FOR ILLUSTRATING MY POINT  (that is perfect)
 
 1, There is a reason why every man comes to Colombia, or Ukraine.  It is ALWAYS something that can be compensated for by leaving home (age; status; money; league; values)

2, Men rely too much on their eyes to determine if the woman is acceptable to them, but fail to use the mirror to ask if the he is acceptable to the woman

3, Maybe you are the love of my life and the mother of my children.  Minute 1; SMS Message.   Minute 13; orders full course dinner  Minute 35 does not agree to come to the apartment to get a "gift"   Minute 55; is vague on when a meeting with the parents is possible.  SCAMMER!  NEXT!

[Shadow]

You were talking about signs during a meeting, and you seem confused with signs that someone is interested during the job interview of becoming your wife.

As I have no experience in that field, because I preferred to have some initial contact and then devote some time and interest to a meeting, please read my points as only valid for an extended meeting of at least a couple of days.

If you think that choosing a woman through an interview over a cup of coffee is a better strategy, find someone who has been successful at that to give tips.

Life has changed, but what has not changed is that if a person is interested in you, they will put as much time and effort in as they can. If they are not, you are a side dish.
If you feel ok with being a side dish, go ahead and take somene who will occasionally plan you in to their life. I prefer someone who wishes to plan her life around me.

[IAmZon]

You were talking about signs during a meeting, and you seem confused with signs that someone is interested during the job interview of becoming your wife.  As I have no experience in that field, because I preferred to have some initial contact and then devote some time and interest to a meeting, please read my points as only valid for an extended meeting of at least a couple of days. If you think that choosing a woman through an interview over a cup of coffee is a better strategy, find someone who has been successful at that to give tips.  Life has changed, but what has not changed is that if a person is interested in you, they will put as much time and effort in as they can. If they are not, you are a side dish.  If you feel ok with being a side dish, go ahead and take someone who will occasionally plan you in to their life. I prefer someone who wishes to plan her life around me.

Over the years, I have consistently found you to be an argumentative a$$ - may lovably cantankerous? 

MEN MEET WOMEN IN A VARIETY OF WAYS:
- tours
- agencies
- non middlemen web sites with not bad reputations (elenas)
- Social networking Sites - LL; MAMBA; Kontact; Badoo; Etc..

Unless you are a keyboard romeo, and spent a ton of time creating an online relationship, then IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, your first "dates" are really cautious "look sees"   So, you are putting your two cents into the thought that you can use any of the above, and trip out of a buss, then begin to romance the woman of your dreams? 

I have seen a lot of trainwrecks here and in Colombia (I have seen some successes too).  But, what you are describing - what the agency web sites, and middlemen pump - is not the reality that I am seeing play out on the ground.

[Shadow]

Over the years, I have consistently found you to be an argumentative a$$ - may lovably cantankerous? 

MEN MEET WOMEN IN A VARIETY OF WAYS:
- tours
- agencies
- non middlemen web sites with not bad reputations (elenas)
- Social networking Sites - LL; MAMBA; Kontact; Badoo; Etc..

Unless you are a keyboard romeo, and spent a ton of time creating an online relationship, then IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, your first "dates" are really cautious "look sees"   So, you are putting your two cents into the thought that you can use any of the above, and trip out of a buss, then begin to romance the woman of your dreams? 

I have seen a lot of trainwrecks here and in Colombia (I have seen some successes too).  But, what you are describing - what the agency web sites, and middlemen pump - is not the reality that I am seeing play out on the ground.

While you were playing, I have been together with Mrs Shadow for 5 years....
Guess who is argumentative here ?
And I am describing my own experience of the past, not agency hype. I leave that up to you who tries to apologize for any bad signs. A bad sign is a bad sign, and if you ignore it you will find out sooner or later.

I know men meet women in many different ways. But I do not see job interviews as a way of meeting. They are simply job interviews, and are nothing but to see interest for dating. Dating beings after that, and one needs to be face to face for some extended time in order to find any good or bad signs. It does not matter if you do the job interview throug Skype, a tour or any type of website. Until you plan to spend actual time with someone, you have nothing at all.

[Boethius]

I think all rivardco is saying is the hard and fast "rules" about women which appear on forums and service providers' "tips" are useless.  I tend to agree.

[GQBlues]

...PLUS, I was reading the MOB narrative - flawed.  Some may want to take note!...

Yeah, well, told you so.

You should've been here during the episode of "...she sacrificed everything she's known just to be with me..." Now that was a near tear jerker, man.

My intended purpose here was to EXPAND on the MOB narrative.

I'm curious to see how you'd accomplish that. Based on your recent trip/report..."you came, you saw, you fell in love". That episode has been running re-runs since time immemorial ~ ask *oneweekwonder*.