Just the FACTS - Arab- Israeli conflict

[Blues Fairy]

Palestinians have been forced to live like subhumans in their ghettos, much the same as the Red Indians, Aborigines and the Jews were in the past.

Oh really?  The Palestinians were offered multiple opportunities and help to create their own state, on much better terms than those Ben-Gurion had accepted in 1948.  But he did create the state that subsequently flourished into a robust economy with developed hi-tech, pharma, and other industries, without any cash flow from the oil reserves.  Which pisses off the Arabs to no end.  All the attempts to help the Palestinians create a state, however, are smashed against their own persistent unwillingness to do so.  They are quite happy with not being responsible for their own well-being and feeding off the UN handouts, and launching sneak attacks against Israel who, by the way, gives prior warnings about its own attacks, while shipping humanitarian aid incessantly.  Why bother with building things when you can just spend years destroying things and pretend you're the victim.

[OlgaH]

Who exactly are making them feel subhuman in the refugee camps in neighboring Middle Eastern countries? Fellow Arabs.

Israel's 'invisible hand' in Gaza
BBC News, Gaza
Wednesday, 17 January 2007

Although Israel withdrew from Gaza more than a year ago, its control over the lives of Palestinians there is in some ways even tighter than before, a new report by an Israeli human rights organisation says.

There is an air blockade. Israel has not allowed Gaza's international airport to re-open.

The Israeli navy continues to patrol the coastline in what it says in an effort to prevent arms smuggling. Palestinian fishing boats are sometimes fired on for straying outside Israeli-imposed zones.

The Israelis have also been able to maintain control over all Gaza's land links with the outside world - including the territory's border with Egypt.

There are no Israeli troops on the frontier any longer, but Israel's co-operation is required for the border crossing to function under an agreement struck between Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Egypt and the European Union.

That Israeli co-operation has frequently been withdrawn, and the border was closed for nearly half of the first year after Israel pulled out of Gaza.

Israeli control over the flow of goods in and out of the territory remains total. And frequent closures of the main cargo terminal at the Karni crossing point have had a devastating impact on the Gazan economy.

The report also highlights a range of administrative controls.

It points out that Israel has retained control of the Palestinian population registry. This enables it to decide who can be a resident of Gaza - and who can come and go.

The reports says that tens of thousands of people have been barred from the registry and consequently have no identity papers.

The study cites the case of Mirvat Alnahal, a lawyer of Palestinian origin and who has lived in Gaza since the mid-1990s.

"I am trapped here. I cannot leave for fear that I won't be allowed to return," she says.

"My husband's ID card says he is married, but the box for spouse's name is blank. My children were born in Gaza to a mother who, officially, does not exist."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6270331.stm

[OlgaH]

Oh really?  The Palestinians were offered multiple opportunities and help to create their own state, on much better terms than those Ben-Gurion had accepted in 1948. 

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F#.D0.98.D1.81.D1.82.D0.BE.D1.80.D0.B8.D1.8F

[OlgaH]

The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the occupied territories

Israel's control of the airspace and the territorial waters of the Gaza Strip

http://www.btselem.org/english/Gaza_Strip/Control_on_Air_space_and_territorial_waters.asp

[Blues Fairy]

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F#.D0.98.D1.81.D1.82.D0.BE.D1.80.D0.B8.D1.8F

Olga, will you take the trouble to articulate your own opinions instead of quoting massive texts and leaving it to us to figure out what your message is?

[OlgaH]

Olga, will you take the trouble to articulate your own opinions instead of quoting massive texts and leaving it to us to figure out what your message is?

Blues Fairy, I gave you the link as response to your "The Palestinians were offered multiple opportunities and help to create their own state". How occupied and controlled territories can create a state?

Gaza's history can be traced from ancient Egypt through to the Ottoman Empire. Beginning in 1920, it was part of the British-ruled Mandate of Palestine.

In 1948, Egypt gained control of Gaza during the Arab-Israeli war -- the same war that ultimately led to Israel's independence as a nation. During the six-day Arab-Israeli war of 1967, Israel took control of Gaza and the West Bank.

In 1993, Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) signed agreements that led to the withdrawal of Israeli troops from most of Gaza in 1994. Ten years later, following numerous failed peace efforts, Israel -- under Prime Minister Ariel Sharon -- announced a plan to remove all Jewish settlements and Israeli troops from Gaza by the end of 2005.

On September 11, 2005, the disengagement was complete.

On September 11, 2005, the disengagement was complete, but see Israeli Human Rights in the occupied territories report and also Who Murdered the Oslo Accords? 
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/israel-palestine/peace/oslo/041902murder.htm 

[Misha]

“The Arab States do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders don't give a damn whether the refugees live or die.” Statement by Ralph Galloway UN official in August 1958.

The fact of the matter is that there were as many Jews who had to flee hundreds and thousands of kilometers from the various Arab states to Israel as a result of Arab hostility after the creation of the state of Israel as there were Palestinian refugees. The Jews who fled were integrated into Israel, the Arab Palestinians who chose to leave became pariahs within states under the control of people who shared the same culture, language and religion. Only Jordan accepted Palestinians and gave them citizenship. Other Arab states refused to accept the refugees and given them citizenship in their states. Saudi Arabia prefers to hire workers who are not Muslim to meet its labor shortages than to accept Palestinians, give them jobs and give them citizenship.

In other words, the words of Galloway are still true to this day. The Arab states do not dare attack Israel directly and prefer maintaining a Palestinian refugee problem to serve in a proxy war with Israel.

[OlgaH]

January 6, 2009
The U.N. position

In February 2008, Secretary-General Ban was asked at a media availability whether Gaza is occupied territory. "I am not in a position to say on these legal matters," he responded.

The next day, at a press briefing, a reporter pointed out to a U.N. spokesman that the secretary-general had told Arab League representatives that Gaza was still considered occupied.

"Yes, the U.N. defines Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem as Occupied Palestinian Territory. No, that definition hasn't changed," the spokesman replied.

Farhan Haq, spokesman for the secretary-general, told CNN Monday that the official status of Gaza would change only through a decision of the U.N. Security Council.

Question is how is the U.N. Security Council going to resolve the situation?

The Arab World Divided Over Gaza
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-arab-world-divided-over-gaza/

[Shadow]

The situation in Gaza is totally tragic.  I am disgusted by what is happening there.  But, to root for Hamas, as if it is some kind of game, is really perverse.  It would be about equal to saying the Taliban were good for Afganistan. 

When needing to diminish the Russian influence the Taliban were considered the good guys, and were helped to get to power.
Soon after they were dropped and declared the enemy.

Similarly Palestinians are one day seen as victims, the next day as agressor.

[kievstar]

Sculpto,

I am all for the 5 million Jewish faith in Israel coming to the America and the Middle East paying the bill to move them.  That means a check for market value of house and 50,000 USA per person. 250 billion for the 50,000 payment (family of 4 gets 200,000) and than price to buy the country land. 

I grew up in Detroit and I am sure you know outside of Israel and New York - Detroit is the 3rd largest area of Jewish faith.  Detroit also is the biggest area of middle east people outside of the middle east.  For some reason in Detroit people get along.  Detroit area also has the national Holocaust museum which was built in past 10 years which is designed to look like a concentration camp.  I encourage people to visit it - it is in Southfield Michigan.  I also encourage people to visit Ann Franks house in Amsterdam and Auchitz (spelling) Poland.  Plus the Warsaw ghettos and Babyar (spelling) in Kiev.  I have been to all places and it is very sad.  Some terrible things have happened in the World to Jews.  But best for the Jewish faith to move to USA.  Middle East is a hateful place.

But Israel better not fall for Hamas trap and invade.  Better to keep to the airstrikes.  Israel will get flanked if they invade and it will not be pretty. 

But I will say this about Israel when  I went there I was disgusted.  For all the things that have happened to Jews, Israel with more than $100 billion of USA aid was treating women like slaves.  These are women stolen from countries and forced into sex and passports stolen.  Was a real eye shocker to me. 

[viking]

From the days of the Pharoahs (and most likely before) to the present, more people have died because someones god was better than anothers god. And when people are so fanatical about it, then its kill or be killed.

[OlgaH]

A Gaza health official says the woman is the first foreign national to die in nearly two weeks of violence in the Palestinian territory.

2009-01-03
Russia today completed the evacuation of its citizens and nationals of the former Soviet republics from Gaza strip

Some 250 Russians, mainly the wives and children of Palestinians who studied at Russian universities, live in the Gaza Strip.

"The center of urgent psychological assistance has opened a hot line. Relatives of the evacuees can receive both psychological support and all the necessary information at 8 (495) 626 37 07," a Ministry representative said.

Psychologists will also work at the Domodedovo airport, where two planes carrying 178 citizens of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Moldova, evacuated from the Gaza Strip, are due to land. The evacuees are mostly women and children.
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2009/jan/030109-Russia-Israel-Gaza-citizens-evacuaees.htm

[tfcrew]

 

• Known Israel critic to lead UNHRC Gaza probe
• The head of the UN’s Gaza probe, Canadian legal expert William Schabas, said he would investigate possible Israeli human rights violations in Operation  Protective Edge, but balked on Tuesday at clarifying whether his mandate  included Hamas.
• “Do you consider Hamas a  terrorist organization?” Channel 2 asked him.
  “It would be inappropriate  for me to answer a question like that,” Schabas said...  [/l][/l]

• http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Head-of-UNHRCs-Gaza-probe-disputes-claims-hes-anti-Israeli-370850
• Kick the Jew is what it looks like to me.
     UN officials who were not even there at the time smugly state that were it not for the UN...Israel would not even exist.....the gall.