Finding a Girl in your subject area? Is it best?

[Trenchcoat]

Just out of curiosity, did you flirt with this girl any? Or just talk to her about sights?  Perhaps the reason the conversation never went beyond sights was because you never moved the conversation.

Did you even bother to offer to go see some sights with her that she hadn't seen yet?

She may have walked away wondering why you didn't show any interest in her.  You chatted her up, but showed no interest in anything more.

Sour grapes.

I told you before, if you want a relationship it will cost you some combination of time, money, and effort.  You say you don't have time, you don't have money, and it is too much effort to go see her.  You will NEVER get a relationship if you don't change your attitude Trench.  NEVER.

Why should she move to a different city?  If a man likes her, he will travel to meet her.

The nearest airport is in her city.  I just checked Google.  Currently, round trip flights from London to Barnaul are about $500.  (From the US to popular FSU cities is usually $1000-$1500.)  So her city is actually not that hard for you to get to.

And why would you want to go to cities where you have a lot of competition from other men?  Have you considered the possibility how much better success you would have if there was no competition from other guys?  If men seeking wives don't visit her city, that sounds like an even better reason for you to go there.

And the more interest she gets from other guys, the less interest she will have in you.  And the less interest she gets from other guys, the more interest she will have in you, if you actually go there.

How you believe others view the world is a reflection on how you actually view the world.

Guys tend to go visit popular cities if they don't have a specific girl in mind.  If a guy sees an interesting girl's profile, he usually goes to wherever she is.

Maybe it is just YOU who disregard girls that don't come from popular cities.

Have you considered the possibility that you are only willing to consider girls from popular cities because you know it is less likely a girl will like you because she has more competition from other guys.  Then you can continue to feel sorry for yourself and blame the world because you are alone.  You're scared of actually having a relationship.  You like the idea of having a girl, but subconsciously, you are sabotaging any chance you have of succeeding because you don't believe you deserve a girl.  Or you will only pursue hot girls out of your league, so when you are rejected you can claim that girls are witches who won't give you a chance, or they are fat "beasts" or whatever.

Then why don't you do what most guys do?  Run down to the pub and have a few pints.  By then you won't care that you are taking home some fat beast.  Or continue to wallow in self-pity about how girls don't like you, and you can continue to be single.

Generally Bee Farmer, the way I see if a girl is interested in me is if there is a lot of eye flirtation there from the get go. If she eyes me up and I respond by eyeing her up and If I eye her up and she responds. If there isn't this instant chemistry there, I assume the girl is/was not interested so no point in expending the effort trying to get someone into you who instinctively isn't. I feel long term if you try to get a girl on board by convincing her with flirting, being forward, etc who wasn't into you from the get go you'll fall out of favour with her down the road as there was never anything really there. Girls that eye you up from the get go seem to remain so - not saying I'm first with her though, there's a lot of competition out there.

Anyway, nothing against the girl from Barnaul, she looks nice and no doubt is, but so are many girls profiles online. To a large extent she is another profile, one that seems to come with decent recommendation but all the same. Like any profile I could get there and there be no chemistry there just a nice girl I get along with. It feels kind of oddball to fly out to somewhere random like that. My thoughts are at the moment I would like to try the Moscow & St. Petersburg scene first then consider more far flung destinations. I'm not sure that a girl having less choice is a good reason to be with me, I think I still need a girl that is into me. I can get girls for dates meets in almost any place/city in the FSU, that is not the problem - getting to one where there is chemistry so far is the problem but after just two trips its still early days.   

[Gator]

Like any profile I could get there and there be no chemistry there just a nice girl I get along with.

Whoa!  A nice girl that "you get along with"  is not good enough for you?  I have news for you, such a woman is a great start. 

It sounds as if your definition of chemistry is some sort of sexual tension.  If a woman enjoys talking with you, laughs with you, and feels comfortable around you, the sex will happen, sooner than you might expect.  And who knows, maybe you will fall into a real relationship - the goal.     
 

My thoughts are at the moment I would like to try the Moscow & St. Petersburg scene first then consider more far flung destinations.

Great places to visit when you have no dates.  I went to those two cities as part of my first trip (in 2002, four weeks long).  The local women were happy to show me the sights when they were not working.  A couple took time off from work to spend time with me during the day (a good sign). 

Moscow women come in two varieties.  The natives (born and raised there), and a larger number who moved there from the provinces. .  The native Moscow women can be highly educated, snobby, and sophisticated - comparable to well bred London women.   Can you handle such women?    Maybe a provincial city with a well run MOB agency would be better. 

I'm not sure that a girl having less choice is a good reason to be with me, I think I still need a girl that is into me.

 


There you go again, worrying that you can not detect insincere women.  If you prefer to date women who have a large choice, stay in London and try to meet some models.   

[wallm]

Perhaps you guys can give him info on the "wingman." Eduard might be unaffordable. Someone here mentioned www.bridespb.com. I have no clue if this is legit. Give him some recommendations instead of hammering the poor guy.

[LiveFromUkraine]

If you prefer to date women who have a large choice, stay in London and try to meet some models.   

London should also have a large amount of foreign women.

[GQBlues]

  *Wingman*

Crazy! Men have a need to rely on a *wingman* to get a date? Sheesh...get a sex change instead.

[msmob]

Eduard might be unaffordable.

Why ? Who says ...? You ?

Ed is a mate ... BTW

[LiveFromUkraine]

*Wingman*

Crazy! Men have a need to rely on a *wingman* to get a date? Sheesh...get a sex change instead.

I think with social media things are getting that bad.  I remember as a kid interacting with girls from a very early age.  We had these dances every Friday where we would go.  Play some video games, eat some pizza, dance with some girls, get a make out session.


It doesn't seem like the younger generations had much of this (I'm starting to sound like a old man here haha).  It just seems everyone interacts with people through their phones now. 

[msmob]

Wingman

Crazy! Men have a need to rely on a *wingman* to get a date? Sheesh...get a sex change instead.

Wasn't it just today I responded to a post of yours where you asked us to bear in mind that there are all sorts of personalities ?

I think wingman refers to setting up the date in the ladies lingo and may be translating ...

[Gator]

Why ? Who says ...? You ?

Ed is a mate ... BTW

Ed is a good guy.  Resides nearby.    I have met him socially on a few occasions long time ago through a mutual friend.

To understand the unaffordable comment,  you need to 1) read Trench's posts to understand the immense depth of his frugality and 2) total the amount of personal time Ed spends in delivering his services.   

Ed's cost should be evaluated in the context that he reduces the risk of marrying the wrong woman, and you and I both know the consequences of the latter.     

[wallm]

Moby, has nobody ever told you that using lots of "you" and "I" in any communication, especially with your irritating style is counterproductive? 

This site is becoming unpleasant to read with so much negativity from a select few. The egos!!

[GQBlues]

Wasn't it just today I responded to a post of yours where you asked us to bear in mind that there are all sorts of personalities ?

Not that I'm aware of.

I think wingman refers to setting up the date in the ladies lingo and may be translating ...

Then what?

Edited for expansion: If we are all trying to help these dudes in their quest to be happily married to a nice FSUW, I feel and believe it would be far more beneficial to address whatever difficulties they are 'personally' encountering in their attempt to date within their respective localities. I guess, for me, it's much better to see John Doe begin to understand himself better, than provide him a quick bus ticket to doomsday.

I'm sure the underlying intent of everyone here is to wish everyone to have happy - married lives. But when we give these guys *ideas* on quick fixes to get dates, despite the overwhelming reasons we see why they can't on their own faculty, what I see happens all the time is, when these guys do finally get hitched, they get back home only to burnout in their respective unions a short while later.

We've all contributed, as a community, in making sure they all skipped 'Why can't women find you interesting enough to date, much less marry - 101".

[msmob]

Moby, has nobody ever told you that using lots of "you" and "I" in any communication, especially with your irritating style is counterproductive? 

No .. only an 'American' who uses the antipodean sl. derogatory term for an English person ...which by the way ( 1st person singular ) am not ...

This site is becoming unpleasant to read with so much negativity from a select few. The egos!!

..Are you bored in Ukraine? Friday evening and you're on here..?

[LAman]

Thanks Gator, your comments give me hope  I think your right in what you say. I'm going to work through this and see if I can make it. Am I aiming too high? Well I get interest from some hot women over the years but I tend to think that I keep coming off second best to some other guy that is better socially than me, more of a natural socially if you like. My thoughts are that the situation in the FSU and perhaps different outlook of women there may help me. They seem to be more interested in intellegent men who are considerate and perhaps most of all can provide. So instead of changing my self change the environment in which I operate. Like you say it may be a case of finding the correct women regardless of whether she is a 5,6,7,8,9,10 or whatever. I'm not looking for a model it doesn't bother me but I do need to find her attractive and there be chemistry. So I'll keep on plugging away and adjust as situation makes apparent to me.

So is  there????

 


 

[msmob]

Not that I'm aware of.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.msg457586#msg457586

Then what?

Shouldn't the client ask Ed ?

[GQBlues]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.msg457586#msg457586

Ok..now I see it. Thanks.

Shouldn't the client ask Ed ?

Eduard?!? 

Anyway, I edited my post above to expand on my previous response.

[wallm]

No .. only an 'American' who uses the antipodean sl. derogatory term for an English person ...which by the way ( 1st person singular ) am not ...

..Are you bored in Ukraine? Friday evening and you're on here..?

Big words. Let me look them up to understand their meaning.

I struck out man. 

Actually I may have found her. She works two jobs and tonight is one of the nights. Spending another week with her before I go home.

Now be nice to Trench. Not everyone is born with the skills some were.

my comment about Eduard comes from someone saying months ago he charges upwards of 25k. I am not questioning his capabilities. Don't know him. That is a lot of money if true. Not all of us are loaded like Gator. 

[LAman]

Edited for expansion: If we are all trying to help these dudes in their quest to be happily married to a nice FSUW, I feel and believe it would be far more beneficial to address whatever difficulties they are 'personally' encountering in their attempt to date within their respective localities. I guess, for me, it's much better to see John Doe begin to understand himself better, than provide him a quick bus ticket to doomsday.

I'm sure the underlying intent of everyone here is to wish everyone to have happy - married lives. But when we give these guys *ideas* on quick fixes to get dates, despite the overwhelming reasons we see why they can't on their own faculty, what I see happens all the time is, when these guys do finally get hitched, they get back home only to burnout in their respective unions a short while later.

We've all contributed, as a community, in making sure they all skipped 'Why can't women find you interesting enough to date, much less marry - 101".

I agree, for one thing this journey into FSU is not for everybody. I shake my head when I read..."going to FSU to find a wife'...like as if you are in a candy store looking for candy bar. Just go out and find one. It is pure luck IF you find someone to you feel compatible with enough to make your partner.
Most people here will try to show you what to look for or what not to look for, maybe answer a question. But any newbie here show be ASKED questions. How do you show someone how to do something when their capabilities are limited. Why are you searching in another country?, what is wrong with local girls?, Are you financial and personal matters in good shape? Do you have problems socially? I remember asking a guy once why he searches in FSU for a wife, he said he can't get a date at home....been almost three years. Of course, he had iffy job, little social skills and ran out of money so he only now corresponds on Vk. I wonder how many guys start out and end up this way?

I first response to any newbie would be to look into a mirror and ask if I am being realistic in my expectations??

[msmob]

Big words. Let me look them up to understand their meaning.

I struck out man. 

I was being bitchy .. I hope not, really

Actually I may have found her. She works two jobs and tonight is one of the nights. Spending another week with her before I go home.

Better..

Now be nice to Trench. Not everyone is born with the skills some were.

I thought I'd been sticking up for him, recently ..   I will try harder

my comment about Eduard comes from someone saying months ago he charges upwards of 25k. I am not questioning his capabilities. Don't know him. That is a lot of money if true. Not all of us are loaded like Gator. 

Don't ya tink, it's best to know his REAL rates ? That would be some prolonged 'hand holding' ..

[Trenchcoat]

Odds are I would perhaps be best going out there for a prolonged period of say 9mths to a year. As has been rightly pointed out there is a relationship development stage and for me not having great social skills the more time spent with the girl hopefully the better this would go. Although some manage it on just a quick visit I think for the majority this is unrealistic, a kind of nieve vision on it all. By being out there on a longer basis I can hopefully coke across the sort of odds needed to find a girl where there is chemistry. I'll still go out the is a couple of months time for a stay of a few weeks and who knows. Increasingly though I am seeing both vo and vm as putting the cart before the horse - arranging meeting/date first then seeing if there is chemistry rather than seeing chemistry first then arranging a meeting/date - as we would do in normal dating traditionally.

[CaptB]

Trench,


I think you have a tendency to "over theorize" all of this dating business. In my experience I was able to assess, in a few days, whether or not a woman (here in the US or abroad) was worth pursuing any further after an initial "few dates". But in my case "meeting and approaching" was never an issue. This seems to be the problem you need to work on "first". Maybe you need to find some social functions to attend....to interact with others....out of your comfort zone.


I used a very good agency back in the day (2000). Lifetime Partners in Tver, Russia, was on of the good agencies at that time. It would have been perfect for you. At an agency everyone knows the score. The men are looking for a partner.....the women were there for the same reason. Yes you had to weed out the pro-daters and party girls....but lots of very nice, funny, intelligent, educated women were there....only......to find a qualified partner. Admittedly......I chose the wrong one. She was very beautiful, funny, smart....just not serious enough....in me.....or relocating....to the US. In hindsight......there were at least 4 other women I met there......who would have been a good match for me. The other 4 were also funny, smart, educated......and considering relocation......with the right partner. I should have had several more dates with each of the other 4....before settling on the one I chose. In the end....I knew she was not as serious about me......as I was in her. Attraction (physical, emotional, spiritual) should be equal in both parties.......or it probably won't work. I realized things were not equal between us.......so I cut her loose. Not easy.....but necessary. I eventually found my other half....on my own. But I had learned a lot at the LTP agency.


On the "over analyzing" of all things "dating"......a small side story about my time at the LTP Agency. A very nice Japanese guy from the US was using LTP at the same time I was. He was an accountant. About 6' tall.....and fairly attractive......he had a nice personality.....a nice guy. One day in the LTP office he was sifting through a ring-bound book. It was about 11" x 8 1/2".....maybe 50 - 60 pages or so. It was a statistical analysis on how he would find...."the perfect wife". I turned my head to chuckle.....not wanting to offend him. This went on for about a week or so. I did not care for most of his choices.....when he went on dates. He was there for 16 days.....and I for 3 weeks. One day I asked hime a few questions about what he was looking for in a partner. I picked-up his book.....and dropped it in the waste basket. He was a little annoyed.....I retrieved it....and gave it the office manager.....to "hold" for a few days. I handed him a small slip of paper with my ideas based upon his answers. basically a list of 10 or so ideas in what he was "really" looking for in a partner. He agreed to give it a try. After a week.....a date showed-up one day in the office. It was apparent there was mutual interest between them. He was 39........she was 32.......they just looked like they "fit". The next spring they were married in St. Petersburg, Russia (where she was from originally). A very nice couple.


On finding places to meet women. You said in your line of work......not many opportunities to meet woman. That just leaves........EVERY OTHER PLACE......on earth. Bars, library, museums, ice rink, roller rink, grocery store, launderette, plays, opera, save the whales meeting....etc....etc I was in a grocery store....with my two kids....about 1 1/2 years after divorce. My daughter 11......my son 8. We were in fruits & vegetables......when I saw a very attractive woman. My Son made a very funny comment about some very long cucumbers....she smiled....with a slight blush. I went with it....we struck-up a short conversation. I gave my daughter money to pay for our groceries......and told them to go to the car......I would be back in a few moments. My daughter knew I was going back to talk to "that lady"......because she said "Daaaaaad!!!! But my son said....."that women is cute" (thats my boy). We dated a few weeks......then she moved out of state......a new job. Very nice woman though........and "cute".......


I hired my (future) wife to be a guide and interpreter........as I was visiting the city she lived in.....for two weeks. After over 100 hours of phone conversation over a four month period......we sort of hit-it-off.......even before we met. She was an English teacher (12 years)......and a very nice person. After we met......in only a week......I knew we had a connection. We really liked each others company. I never knew what hit me. Almost 14 years of marriage later.......I made the right choice. We were at a great advantage though......both of us were previously marriedorced......and actually learned from those experiences. A friend of mine.......who I went to Russia with....my first time.....was single......never married. Before we left I told him......"you are at a slight advantage"......because you were never married before. He married an RW........it lasted only a few years. I will say about 8 couples we are friends with (AM/RW) and one (AM/UW).....are all still married after many years of marriage.


Cant B

[Trenchcoat]

I well over theorise Capt B, its good to hear your story, so thank you for sharing. I don't think I'm likely to need a stats book, that's too mathematical for me, I not really a heavy data sort of guy. I get what your saying though just get in there and learn as you go. There's some truth in this and I am moving in that direction. For me though I'm a bit of a planner and think strategically. No surprises that the Myers Brigg came out as INTJ for me. In truth this whole FSU dating thing is new territory for me so its what I do a bit to get a good idea of the picture. Its a bit of a complex beast the FSU dating so I don't think its a bad thing to theorise a little over what may work best. After all I get the impression many of the success rates aren't real high for certain approaches, while some approaches may work better than others depending on who they are. I think I'm better equipped now to make a go of this FSU dating scene than I was a year ago, in part thanks to the guys on here and in part to what I've learned myself along the way.

[BillyB]

And why would you want to go to cities where you have a lot of competition from other men?  Have you considered the possibility how much better success you would have if there was no competition from other guys?  If men seeking wives don't visit her city, that sounds like an even better reason for you to go there.

A guy shouldn't be scared of competition unless he can't beat them. I consider my wife a great catch. When she was living in Libya, she had lots of European men giving her their phone numbers on the beach. She wouldn't give out her number. She had a stack of phone numbers but I was the first she gave out her number too.

Am I a great catch? I know not everybody is going to like me but even if 10% of the people like me which includes 10% of the women out there, I will have enough quality friends and be a busy guy in the dating world.

Maybe you need to find some social functions to attend....to interact with others....out of your comfort zone.

Trench doesn't like to date UK women but he should date as many women possible to sharpen his social skills with the ladies. It will help him become more attractive once he figures out what and what doesn't work.

Years ago walking in the mall with my teenager son at the time, he walked into a store and came out with a girl's number. I asked him how he did it. He said all he said was "Can I have your phone number?". He had a lot of confidence back then and wasn't bad looking either. May work with teenage girls but need to have a more meaningful conversation with women to before getting their number. If I were Trench, I'd get off the internet, go out and start talking to as many UK women as I can.

[Ludmila]

So to follow on from the point raised by Bee Farmer in the other thread (sexual infections). Is it best to go for a girl in your subject field if that field is a major part of your life? Not only your job but also your interest, something you tend to eat sleep and sh*t, only coming up for air every so often. Not to say you don't have a few other interests of course. Would she enjoy hearing about the subject that I have a passion for and (I believe) am good at or would it bore her. In the UK I tend to get the impression it would bore her, but maybe not a FSW? I do try not to drone on about it too much.

Anyway, my thought is that would I be best off targeting girls interested in the same subject. Better for the relationship? Easier to connect with? My subject is Architecture so it is something I think of as something that I can connect over, i.e not like some sort of scientist type of field or whatever. Would looking for girls in my subject area in the FSU be better than MOB dating services? More natural way of finding women, better long term relationship prospects?

Trench, remember, showing interest in your interlocutor ( not to mix up with "prying") is almost always welcomed by outgoing people ( not only ladies). That said, don't forget that there are all kinds of people there : some like to talk about themselves, some --about others, some are simply poor communicators, some are suspicious of strangers, and some will be glad to talk about you as their interlocutor. You have to figure it out based on their reaction. As to the subject of a conversation, if your interlocutor is new to the subject , introduce your subject "in portions" so to speak.   Remember a rule : 1. start with a STATEMENT, followed by a question. i.e. In a bar : " SOMEWHAT MAKES ONE FEEL HERE ESPECIALLY WARM. iS IT THE COLOR PALLETTE YOU THINK? or, looking at sky scrapers : THE SKY SCRAPERS ARE GRAND BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING DOMINEERING ABOUT THEM. WHAT DO YOU THINK? or, I LIKE EUROPEAN ARCHITECTURE BETTER BECAUSE...., or,  HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT THAT THE RUSSIAN/UKRAINIAN WORD "DOM" ( a house) COMES FROM THE WORD "DOME" . AT THE INITIAL STAGE SPEAK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOUR INTERLOCUTOR CAN CONTRIBUTE TO.

[SANDRO43]

HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT THAT THE RUSSIAN/UKRAINIAN WORD "DOM" (a house) COMES FROM THE WORD "DOME" .

Or from the Latin for house, i.e. domus ?

Reconstruction of Nero's Domus Aurea (partially still buried)

[Anotherkiwi]

Bee Farmer its because she lives in the middle of Nowhere, literally, its far from virtually all bride seeking nations, from the UK, Europe, Australia and the US. Her best hope is probably a Chinese guy, there are loads of men in China looking for a wife. Even where she lives the nearest airport is probably Tomsk.

I know that others have already responded to this post, but I had better things to do over the weekend than catch up here.    Just lately you have posted the odd thought which gave me a bit more confidence in thinking that you MIGHT succeed in this endeavour, but then you come back with ignorant tripe like this.  What has "loads of men in China looking for a wife" got to do with RWD and, more importantly, your non-existent love life?  If you can't even be bothered finding out that Barnaul is a major city in its own right (it is WAY bigger than Tomsk, which is hundreds of kilometres to the north) with several direct flights to Moscow every day, then, by all means, go back to thinking that settling in Moscow or St Petersburg for a few months may work the oracle.

As I've pointed out before, Siberia is actually far closer to New Zealand and Australia than is Moscow, Kyiv or anywhere else in Ukraine or western Russia.  I can actually fly to Novosibirsk with just one stop in east or south-east Asia (for a cost of $1,200 US return), and from there it's just a short distance to Barnaul.  As I pointed out in the thread in question, there were three strikes against me chasing her (two being our age limitations), otherwise I would most definitely have made the effort.

And, just for your info, GQBlues' wife comes from that area.  It didn't stop him travelling to find his princess - and he had to go a lot further than you.

...but then you still have to travel hours & hours and extra plane travel costs each time it would be a real pain. If shes' serious she needs to either move to a more accessible city or get a Chinese man.

And once again you demonstrate that you are simply a cheapskate who will never find anyone unless you drastically change your attitude.