First timer headed to Ukraine

[GQBlues]

...GQ. I did tell them that I came over to meet a woman and it did not work out.

Stupendous!

...Thats about the first thing they ask anyways...

Could be that the agency cold call from an AM already in Ukraine sort of clue them in on that.

Plus....they all know about and suspect you are doing WMVM anyways. Does not appear to be any secret from the women I have talked to...

I agree with you. Birds of feathers and all that good stuff..

...Thats partly why I did a meet one WMVO trip. I always feel better when I can be honest. Plus with honesty there is a lot less to remember.

Well, honesty isn't dependent on the approach. Going WMVM and plain being honest about it had been done before and I'll even boldly say on numerous occasions.

My take is, going WOVO WITH back-up plans is hardly a definition of someone being honest, don't you agree?

Anyway, that's just me...good luck out there!

[Patagonie]

     I' ll keep this report short. Its going good. 

 GQ. I did tell them that I came over to meet a woman and it did not work out. Thats about the first thing they ask anyways.Plus....they all know about and suspect you are doing WMVM anyways. Does not appear to be any secret from the women I have talked to.

 Thats partly why I did a meet one WMVO trip. I always feel better when I can be honest. Plus with honesty there is a lot less to remember.

Guy there is no honesty till there is commitement involved.
If you have a girlfriend and fuck many around i can understand that you feel dishonest but the purpose of your travel is to have a serious relatioship ? And to have a serious relationship, what you do ? you meet women, many.
Why, if you are so honest,  don't you  take back the plane, just  to be honest to her memory ?

Men are often grawed of culpability.
I have never seen a woman fill of culpability when it is time to meet men (as long as she is not in love).

This is the problem of many men, they are full of unnecessary feelings.

[lonedrake]

GQ...  you have a good point especially about my plan for Belarus. However I never told her I was going to visit. That was a stupid plan.

 As far as in Lugansk....I had never made any plans or even told them I was coming to Lugansk. I don't have any contact with an agency. I had just added about 20 girls to my favorite list. Many of them reply with a wink or small talk. If it had worked with Anna, none of these girls would have even know i was in Ukraine or had plans to go there.

 Anyways....I can see that there is no foolproof way to go about meeting the right FSUW.

 Since I slept 12 hours yesterday I am well rested and feel like sharing some more of my trip. Two days ago Eva took me to the bowling alley. I was expecting a run down place like you will often find in some of the smaller towns in the midwest. She had worked there in the past....but I still don't understand if it was for a length of one year that ended 6 months ago, or she worked there for 6 months 1 years ago.

 We ran into a couple of her ex-co-workers. They were so excited to see her and talk to her. The one guy was just so nice to me I felt a little awkward. He would keep talking to me and I would have to keep looking at Eva for help. She did a great job considering she has a difficult time with English. They very proud of Lugansk. They wanted to know what I thought of their city.I just told them the weather is almost the same as Minnesota and so far I like it here. I also told them that the bowling alley is much better than many in the USA. They were just beaming.

 I am not much of a bowler but this bowling alley was nicer than at least 50% that I have been in Mn.

 Now Eva had never bowled and did not really want to bowl. She said she would just watch me. Of coarse that was not acceptable to me so I said we will have a drink first. She said OK.

 So we put our shoes on and figured out which lane we needed to go to. I was not sure I could get the automatic scorecard to work....but it turned out to be a non issue. I gave her a quick lesson and showed her the basics. She actually did pretty good considering. Her first game was a 69.
 I let her know "I love 69 with you"   I was the only one who thought it was funny. Imagine that.

 After we left the alley we just took a walk. One thing she said was that she had never bowled before because she lacked the confidence to do it,but now did with me and really liked it.

 We were headed to a good BBQ restaurant, but they were closed. Thats how we ended up at McDonalds.

 Yesterday.....We went to the movies

 It was really a nice theater. 3D. Unfortunately the movie pretty much sucked. I would say the movie sucked even if I had know Russian. According to Eva the movie was in Ukrainian language even though 90% of the people in there speak Russian. I don't remember the name of the movie, however the plot is of a young man who is stuck out at sea in a lifeboat with a hyena,a tiger and a Zebra. If you ever think about going to see this movie....DON"T. It is stupid!!!
 Eva didn't like the movie either, but she did want to know what I thought of the theater. I told her is was nicer than 80% than I have been in the US and it was.

 This evening....I suppose technically yesterday we went to the Orchestra. We had a difficult time getting there on time as her work schedule made it a close call. We were the last ones to be seated and it had already started. I have never had much interest in this type of music....and after today me feelings remain the same. The hardest part was staying awake! This was something she wanted to do and she really enjoyed it.

 Even though Eva and I have a great connection and talking a little bit about the future....I saw some red flags today and it is bugging the hell out of me.
 We were on Facebook and I was showing her my family and what not. She wanted to see where I live. I own a 3 bedroom home that I have rented out for 2 years. It is 100% paid for. I have stayed there for the last two months and have not decided if I am going to rent it out or keep it open in case I find someone.  Anyways...I don't have much for pictures so I just went to the previous rental listing and showed her.  Now I am a liar because there was a "prize" on the site(just the home value) This is not really a big deal to me as how would she know. I don't even know if it worth trying to convince her.
 The red flags came when we were viewing her Facebook page.The first thing I noticed is her age on her Facebook page is not the same as the dating website. So instead of her being 4 years younger than me she is a year older than me.  I didn't even understand her explanation.  I like her regardless of what her age actually is...but it is a red flag.

 When she was logging in to her Facebook  page her name did not come up the first time. But it did when she used another last name. I never asked her anything but she told me that she was married to a man in Molodova(sp) for 5 months. This was ten years ago and she just left him, but has not been divorced yet because of the cost.


 

 I did notice that she left her facebook page open on my laptop. Not sure if I should look at it as I can't read anything anyways.

 What to do?

 

 

 

[knighta]

 I did notice that she left her facebook page open on my laptop. Not sure if I should look at it as I can't read anything anyways.

 What to do?

I am enjoying your trip report.  But do you use Firefox?  There is an add-on FoxLingo that can automatically translate entire web pages.

[Daveman]

And the thot plickens!  Ya just can't make this stuff up, can ya? 


So, she's married.. to someone in Moldova... there's a twist ya don't read every day... 


I didn't get the "prize" on your house comment.

[ML]

And the thot plickens!  Ya just can't make this stuff up, can ya? 


So, she's married.. to someone in Moldova... there's a twist ya don't read every day... 


I didn't get the "prize" on your house comment.

He probably meant 'price' but I don't get that either.
Was it the monthly rental?
Or was he also trying to sell it for X price?

- - - -

I also met some gals who later told me they were 'still married' but trying to get out, once an agreement about proceeds from sale of apartment could be agreed upon.

[mendeleyev]

Anyways...I don't have much for pictures so I just went to the previous rental listing and showed her.  Now I am a liar because there was a "prize" on the site(just the home value) This is not really a big deal to me as how would she know. I don't even know if it worth trying to convince her.

It is not, btw.

My first guess is that it may have sounded like приз, p-r-i-z (e) but was price. When two people are discussing seemingly simple things that that can rapidly turn into topics not so simple, like home ownership, rentals and financing in non-identical economic systems featuring different currencies, misunderstandings will happen.

Think about your hometown and how many for sale/for rent signs you routinely encounter on an average day. Now take a look around her environment and see how few you see in comparison. It might be helpful to you to look for rent signs аренда = "ah-ren-da" which would likely be much more common in her area than for sale signs. As just one possible misunderstanding, a lady seeing a rent sign in her mind could possibly seem that you don't really own the home but are a renter instead.

she told me that she was married to a man in Molodova (sp) for 5 months. This was ten years ago and she just left him, but has not been divorced yet because of the cost.

Given her lack of English, was it that she hadn't actually divorced or was it the hassle/cost of changing her name in her internal passport after a divorce? You'll find that if both her and your vocabulary is limited, explanations can be fuzzy and only go so far.

Especially if her pronunciation is basic, there are many similar words to trip you up. Just to touch the surface: if she says that someone is an artist, you're thinking of a painter while she means an actor. You tell her about the cabinets in your kitchen and to her the word cabinet means office. She asks you to wear a costume to the ballet. You're wondering why anyone would wear a silly clown get-up to the ballet and are angry that she is even serious about it. All she is asking however is for you to wear a suit. To her fabric is a factory and magazine is a store where you step inside and purchase items. There are many more.

The more time you spend together trying to guess what each other means can lead to greater misunderstandings. With her rudimentary English and your non-existent Russian two good and well-meaning people could easily become quite suspicious of each other just from differences in context of words used/understood. If you like this girl and are interested to see if you should step up the relationship a notch, perhaps now is the time for someone professional (translator) to help the two of you get beyond assumptions and onto a more solid conversational footing.

So far from your report she hasn't asked you for money to visit her sick babushka in the village, hasn't asked you for new jewelry, or steered you to the most expensive restaurant, taxi, asked you for money to arrange a visa to America, etc. Absent the most glaring and obvious signs, the two of you may not yet understand each other well enough yet to have red flags. If you feel good chemistry and like a majority of what you see and feel, spend a few bucks on a professional that you trust and see if the chemistry is real.

Getting past the name issue for now, I'd talk about the FB issue but given her limited vocab that is a topic for when you've secured more professional assistance.

I hope that my comments don't sound critical because you're doing a lot of the right things and thanks for the interesting trip report. 

[lonedrake]

Yes....it is embarrassing

  She volunteered the info. Apparently she was married to him 10 years ago. After she moved there he  did not provide much for her. After 5 months she came home to get or do something, but then she decided to not go back. She cannot afford a divorce and doesn't even act like it is any big deal. For all I know...maybe its not over here.

 If you just do a google search of your property address it will show up on real estate websites. At least in Minneapolis. It will show the property and either the appraised value/or last sale price.

 On top of this new info....something I ate at the restaurant last night was toxic to my system. First time anything I have eaten over here has caused any problems. Lets just say I will not be going anywhere today.

 Yesterday Eva wanted to know what we were going to do today. I told her I want her to cook a meal for me.

 Hopefully this stomach flu is short lived as I don't feel like doing anything today.

 

[Belvis]

  She volunteered the info. Apparently she was married to him 10 years ago. After she moved there he  did not provide much for her. After 5 months she came home to get or do something, but then she decided to not go back. She cannot afford a divorce and doesn't even act like it is any big deal. For all I know...maybe its not over here.

Strange story, never heard about such things. She must have some motivation to keep the status, like the right for  inheritance. A divorce can not be expensive, time consuming but not expensive. May be she has wrong perceptions about the procedure. Let her produce the thorough explanation, it's really important point and she understands that, so no offence would taken.

[Shadow]

Yes....it is embarrassing

  She volunteered the info. Apparently she was married to him 10 years ago. After she moved there he  did not provide much for her. After 5 months she came home to get or do something, but then she decided to not go back. She cannot afford a divorce and doesn't even act like it is any big deal. For all I know...maybe its not over here.

 If you just do a google search of your property address it will show up on real estate websites. At least in Minneapolis. It will show the property and either the appraised value/or last sale price.

 On top of this new info....something I ate at the restaurant last night was toxic to my system. First time anything I have eaten over here has caused any problems. Lets just say I will not be going anywhere today.

 Yesterday Eva wanted to know what we were going to do today. I told her I want her to cook a meal for me.

 Hopefully this stomach flu is short lived as I don't feel like doing anything today.

Divorce procedure in Russia is pretty straightforward and if there is no joint ownership not costly. Remember that if yyou wish to marry her in the USA she needs to be divorced.

[CDW]

LD

If I were you, I would forget about her.   If she cannot get divorced after 10 years, she is more likely not to get divorced any sooner. 

[Gator]

....perhaps now is the time for someone professional (translator) to help the two of you get beyond assumptions and onto a more solid conversational footing.

Good advice!

....perhaps NOW is the time for someone professional (translator) to help the two of you get beyond assumptions and onto a more solid conversational footing.

Even better advice.
 
An interpreter will clarify the story behind her phantom divorce and also reveal to her your honesty about your home.   Both of you have serious questions about each other.  Use an interpreter to ask them.
 
 
Misunderstandings are inevitable even when both parties speak the same native language.  IMO a key factor is whether a RW will give you the benefit of the doubt.  Giving you the benefit of the doubt shows trust, which is very important in building a relationship.
 
Hire an interpreter now.  Your agency will have an interpreter if you have no other options.   But first tell her that you want to use an interpreter, and phrase it in a positive light, not as an interrogation.
 

[jone]

I guess water boarding is out of the question?

[lonedrake]

Like others have mentioned it just may be my lack of understanding. She may even have said that she just didn't legally change her name back. But....I don't really know. Her body language as she was talking about this seemed innocent.

 I do consider the age issue an out right lie. I do understand why she would do this.But...that still does not make it right.

 The truth to everything is that I am exhausted.  Three nights left. Eva is coming over at 7 and will be cooking a meal for me. 

[mendeleyev]

I do consider the age issue an out right lie.

If she is the one who posted her dating profile, it is. Given her lack of language ability it would be almost routine for an agency person who really did the profile editing to fudge a bit on the age. Agencies have been known to delete info about children too in order to generate more interest in a lady.

[Faux Pas]

I guess water boarding is out of the question?

I would recommend leaving it in as an option  One never knows, does one?

I do consider the age issue an out right lie. I do understand why she would do this.But...that still does not make it right.

Too many variables in this one to condemn her as a liar. If older women intimidate you, kick her to the curb. How dare she, a woman, lie about her age. Damn disgraceful. You do have after all, your high moral perch to protect.

[BBC]

What's the difference between a North American cashier and a FSU cashier?

In North America they say  "Hello! How are you?"
In the FSU they say "Packet?"   

It's funny, and sometimes true for Kazakhstan too. But I didn't find it funny when in my first day in Rome I found 2 Euro charge in the restaurant' bill for something I certainly didn't order. I understood from the waiter's explanations that it was charge for clean tablecloth or for changing the tablecloth... So, you see, in Russia at least you are asked before being charged (if the question was not clearly pronounced - it's different issue), while in Europe sometimes you can be charged for something as post-factum which in addition was supposed to be provided in a good restaurant. Worth to mention, that in the course of dinner I didn't notice that tablecloths were changed after guests left...

[SANDRO43]

But I didn't find it funny when in my first day in Rome I found 2 Euro charge in the restaurant' bill for something I certainly didn't order. I understood from the waiter's explanations that it was charge for clean tablecloth or for changing the tablecloth...

BBC, ...when in Rome...
What you saw on your Roman bill was probably a line saying:

- Coperto: € 2

i.e. their "cover charge", a standard charge in all Italian restaurants for a properly laid-out table (table cloth/ware, napkins, glasses) and other consumable items like a bread basket, salt/pepper, oil/vinegar, grated Parmesan cheese, a carafe of tap water if you want it, etc. etc. that you DON'T have to order, and are put on your table and not on your final bill as additional charges.   

Worth to mention, that in the course of dinner I didn't notice that tablecloths were changed after guests left...

Did they change the cutlery and glasses, at least ?

[mendeleyev]

There was a time in the FSU when in some restaurants you might have expected certain items on a table to be charged. I'm thinking of items like salt, ketchup, or napkins. This habit was brought to the USA by many immigrants and today whether you eat in a Russian restaurant in New York, Dallas, Sacramento, Phoenix or Los Angeles, you stand a chance of paying a table service charge if you don't inspect the bill.

[calmissile]

There was a time in the FSU when in some restaurants you might have expected certain items on a table to be charged. I'm thinking of items like salt, ketchup, or napkins. This habit was brought to the USA by many immigrants and today whether you eat in a Russian restaurant in New York, Dallas, Sacramento, Phoenix or Los Angeles, you stand a chance of paying a table service charge if you don't inspect the bill.

Wow, this is a new one on me.  I usually don't eat in ritzy restaurants, but have never seen this.

[Anechka]

There was a time in the FSU when in some restaurants you might have expected certain items on a table to be charged. I'm thinking of items like salt, ketchup, or napkins. This habit was brought to the USA by many immigrants and today whether you eat in a Russian restaurant in New York, Dallas, Sacramento, Phoenix or Los Angeles, you stand a chance of paying a table service charge if you don't inspect the bill.

Jeez, I'm definitely too young to remember that in the FTU and not a fan of Russian restaurants in NY... When was it?

[mendeleyev]

The practice in the FSU was more common in the 80s and 90s. I haven't seen it for a long time but do remember a time when being charged for things like ketchup was a charged item if it was sitting on the table. Cousin German taught me to look at tickets before paying and to ask for adjustment if we hadn't used the items. My wife paid a 10% table service fee in a New York Russian cafe last year and was ticked that they refused to make an adjustment. Google the topic on places like TripAdvisor and you'll find it still a sore point in the USA at some Russian restaurants.

[BBC]

BBC, ...when in Rome...
What you saw on your Roman bill was probably a line saying:

- Coperto: € 2

i.e. their "cover charge", a standard charge in all Italian restaurants for a properly laid-out table (table cloth/ware, napkins, glasses) and other consumable items like a bread basket, salt/pepper, oil/vinegar, grated Parmesan cheese, a carafe of tap water if you want it, etc. etc. that you DON'T have to order, and are put on your table and not on your final bill as additional charges.   
Did they change the cutlery and glasses, at least ?

Yes, very likely that was the item you referred to, I remember it started with “C”.
But unlike you pointed out, it was charged as separate line in the bill and added to total payment due - I had no choice but pay.  May be it was the price discrimination towards Russians? Similarly like Russian gypsy taxi raise prices to foreigners far beyond standard rates  .

O yes, cutlery/glasses looked pink and fresh, they didn't even charge for them as a separate line  . As I am older than Anechka  , I remember that in Soviet times I had to have clean napkin in my pocket solely for the purpose of wiping spoons and forks (knifes were not served) in the canteen, as they felt quite oily .  I can’t tell what was the situation in Soviet restaurants, as a poor student I couldn’t afford.   

[lonedrake]

  One thing I have seen on some reports is that someone will say "What are you doing typing on here. You should just worry about being with your lady"

 If your lady works, most of the day is just spend killing time. Go to market,take a walk,answer a few business emails etc. But....that only takes so long.  I imagine the days are more enjoyable during the summer. It is definitely something to consider on a winter visit. They do not appear to shovel any of the snow on the sidewalks. Consequently all the sidewalks turn to lumpy ice and it is easy to slip. So far I have not been on my ass, but a couple of times came close.

 Today I woke up feeling good. The sun was out and the temperature was in the high 30s(F). On my walk one thing caught my interest. Many people were gathered around a small church/temple. It appeared they all had water jugs and were getting the water blessed. I am not sure if that is accurate...but thats all I could think of.

 My contact took me to a return visit to the doctor.  The first office visit was 50 grivnas and another 100 grivnas or so for medicine and cream. The doctor prescribed a body wash to reduce any itching. The pharmacy did not have the body wash so I just told my contact to forget about it and I am fine. My contact did instruct me to slip the doctor 100 grivnas. For all the hoopla about medical care I can only say this. The visit was fast,easy,effective and cheap.

 My stomach flu is gone. Eva was completely accepting and understanding....although she did get a few laughs about it. She said if was from the pork. According to her the pork was cooked to soon after the pig was killed. It must age a few days before it is safe to eat.

 She made me chicken soup from scratch along with fried chicken and stuffed chicken. I told her I only wanted the soup as I was not sure I dared to eat much. Of course...she ignored my request.

 I have also read on RWD how FSUW have a very special voice/accent. I completely agree. whether it's "Yes my darling" or "You see,you understand" or "Stephen you are crazy" it's like music.

 I did ask Eva about her marriage...and she said " just on passport" so I just dropped it. She never tried to hide it anyways so I doubt it's a problem that cannot be resolved. The age thing I believe I am able to handle.

 All that said....I am mentally tormented today. Not sure what I should do.

 

[cc3]

"Mentally tormented"...why?