Women with Children - more strongly worded advice

[CDW]

He's remarried to lady from Ukraine now. The first thing he asked her when they started getting a little serious in their correspondence was..
DO YOU HAVE ANY SONS?

She told him no, I have no kids. Friend tells her...I'll be flying to meet you in 6 weeks then.

You missed one more question    "Do you have an elderly mum?"

[jmana]

You missed one more question    "Do you have an elderly mum?"

They don't even have to be elderly.  My ex's mother was in her late 40's when we were together and was constantly trying to guilt her into sending money.  My ex would tell me it's normal for children over there to support their parents, even if the parents work.  Weird. 

[southernX]

xman .This may or may not be beneficial to those who are starting out.  But I will provide some perspective for those who are inclined to read it.

I've been around the block a few times.  I stopped counting after some early trips to Russia and a dozen trips to multiple cities in Ukraine.  I met more women than I can even remember.  But I am not a sex tourist by any stretch of the imagination.  Actually, it is quite the opposite.  It would be challenging to find someone who was more serious and respectful about this pursuit.  But, finding the right woman has not exactly been an easy process.  For those who struck gold the first or second time out, I congratulate you.  But it certainly does not happen for everyone. 

In the early stages I was undecided about writing a woman with a child.  Realistically, if one does so one is taking on additional responsibility right out of the gate.  It also may not be so easy to determine the temperament of a child, and whether one wishes to believe it or not, it can seriously impact the relationship, regardless of the age of the child.  It also tacks on an additional financial burden, both up front and for the long-term.  Discipline may be an issue, as it may take quite some time for a woman to become comfortable with you being involved or handing out discipline.

Of course, there are positives.  Though this is a generalization, and therefore there are caveats, a woman with a child may be more discerning, more interested in character than flash, more interested in a relationship than partying, etc.  (Then again, if you are looking for a party girl, that may not matter to you.  But if you are, it's much less expensive to stay at home, though perhaps not as exotic.) 

Eventually I decided to consider both women with and without children, though I think I began leaning toward the former rather than the latter.  I became enamored with the idea of family, and though I wasn't sure I would have a child of my own, I felt I was ready, whether the child was genetically mine or not.

All well and good. 

But, for those considering it, be acutely aware of custody issues early on, before you become deeply involved and attached. 

Now, I am certain on this board there are men who had no issues, the ex-husband was no problem, and everything was roses and honey.  Once again, my congratulations to those gentlemen.  I am envious. 

Though I am sure the above is true, I can say with authority that the polar opposite is also true.  There are ex-husbands who have an axe to grind that is so large they can barely lift it with both hands.  In some cases they will not simply cut off their own noses to spite their respective faces, they will tear off one of their own limbs just to bait a shark while you are swimming.

I really have no desire to delve into my own story.  But I can summarize it by saying that I thought things were resolved, they are not, things are back in court, and most likely the timeline for her to leave the country and come to the USA will expire prior to custody being settled.  Yes, I have contacted some folks (I was recently referred to a state department contact) to see what options there are.  I do not believe an extension is possible, from what I have read. 

In the end, my scenario doesn't really matter.  At least not to you.

What matters is this:  my gut reaction is to tell you to stay the hell away from any woman with a child.  But you could very well miss out on finding the relationship you have always dreamed of if you do that.  Instead I will say that before you become entangled, find out where things are, and do it as soon as is realistically possible.  If a woman does not have sole custody, frankly, I would get the $U@! out pronto.  Unless you are a masochist, of course, and then I say full speed ahead and enjoy the pain and frustration and other goodies. 

Cheers.

while there is some truth in your words above , it is also very negative and bitter in parts

it is a nonsense to wipe all women with kids off the list, it all depends on the individuals involved and their particular circumstances , each one is its own journey with own issues to resolve

lots of variables just below for a start

how old is the lady and her child ?
is the child a  boy or girl ?
how many kids does she have ?
is she divorced or widowed ?
does she have sole custody or shared ?
does the dad if hes alive live in the same country as she does ?
does she want more kids with you ?
do you have any kids ?
do you want more kids with her ?
how old are you ?
what type of personality are you in relation to living with a kid ?and the issues they can bring to a home ?

i would not consider a woman with achild if you have not though about all that it involves and made sure you can fully understand & accept it BEFORE YOU GET EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED !!!

however in our case it has been ajoy , with min issues and it has added to our family and happiness

SX

[die_cast]

My one sentence of advice is this:  Do not pursue a woman with a child or children under the age of 18. 

Should I stay alone next dozen of years or it would be better to murder myself right now? 

[southernX]

Should I stay alone next dozen of years or it would be better to murder myself right now? 

die cast . take a positve & open  minded view on it ,
my wife had one child in early teens , he has been no problem at all fantastic kid , excelled here in australia since he arrived , fits in with my other kids like a brother ,
my wife and i have never had one argument over any of our kids at all 
so it isnt all doom and gloom as other posters will advise,
just make sure you fully understand what is required & accept it if you want to include ladys with kids in your search ,
make a list of what you would accept
  a childs age for example , under  10 years of age , or would you prefer and be better able to handle an older child ?

what is your experience with kids ?

see it all depends on thinking it through and doing some research before hand ,set some acceptable guidelines for themselves  , before they  get sucked into the romance of it ,  too many get emotionally involved before they have made any long term thoughts about it all , only finding things out as they go , then getting  stuck in what was always a  no win situation or full of high risk issues they failed to give due consideration to

other thing is often we onyl hear one side of the story , possibly lots of blokes have issues with it as they are just not suited to handle kids and or the international marriage experience , their expectations are way out of whack with reality

SX

[jone]

die cast . take a positve & open  minded view on it ,
my wife had one child in early teens , he has been no problem at all fantastic kid , excelled here in australia since he arrived , fits in with my other kids like a brother ,
my wife and i have never had one argument over any of our kids at all 
so it isnt all doom and gloom as other posters will advise,
just make sure you fully understand what is required & accept it if you want to include ladys with kids in your search ,
make a list of what you would accept
  a childs age for example , under  10 years of age , or would you prefer and be better able to handle an older child ?

what is your experience with kids ?

see it all depends on thinking it through and doing some research before hand ,set some acceptable guidelines for themselves  , before they  get sucked into the romance of it ,  too many get emotionally involved before they have made any long term thoughts about it all , only finding things out as they go , then getting  stuck in what was always a  no win situation or full of high risk issues they failed to give due consideration to

other thing is often we onyl hear one side of the story , possibly lots of blokes have issues with it as they are just not suited to handle kids and or the international marriage experience , their expectations are way out of whack with reality

SX

I am not sure she is looking for a woman with children in that die_cast reports that she is, very much, a lady.   

[southernX]

jone , i think she understood my post,

it was in general to allreaders that  their is a person out there for all of us

SX

[die_cast]

die cast . take a positve & open  minded view on it ,

Oh, thanks, I'm fine.  My comment was a sort of "every joke has a piece of truth in it".
I realize that we all are different and have different POV, different life experience, etc. But I mind if someone is trying to shape his personal bad experience into such harsh advices, makes it an ultimate resolution for everyone.

[southernX]

thank you , and i totally agree

i think he has let his personal experience taint his perspective on this ,

lots of men like me out there who would love to meet and marry a lady with children

SX

[Muzh]

Should I stay alone next dozen of years or it would be better to murder myself right now? 

Nah, just stay away from the greedy bastards.

[Brillynt]

Nah, just stay away from the greedy bastards.

 

 

[Wayne]

I know in Ukraine adult children are required by law to help support their old parents. The two sons and mother were each living on $250 per month. So a total of &750 per month. Was the wife working?
 
They should have discussed all this before getting married, but if $750 per month is a problem for you, then forget about FSUW!

[CDW]

I know in Ukraine adult children are required by law to help support their old parents. The two sons and mother were each living on $250 per month. So a total of &750 per month. Was the wife working?
 
They should have discussed all this before getting married, but if $750 per month is a problem for you, then forget about FSUW!

What is the monthly salary for a 'normal' office work in Ukraine ???????

[Wayne]

Most people in Ukraine or Russia have a low "official" salary, but most of their money is earned in other ways. Ukraine might average $300 per month. Russia, $700. You can search for threads about it.
 
A retired person would get less than half that.

[Slumba]

If people are not getting what they want in life, they need to either accept it - or examine their behavior, their mental attitude, way of life etc. and try to figure out if there is a positive change that can or should be made. 

Murdering yourself - is a change, yes, but, not a positive change 

[Jumper]

Most people in Ukraine or Russia have a low "official" salary, but most of their money is earned in other ways. Ukraine might average $300 per month. Russia, $700. You can search for threads about it.
 
A retired person would get less than half that.

The reported scenario was Belarus ,which has roughly Ukraine's average salary.
So the stipend discussed was to be roughly the average salary for three Belarus adults.

I am all about helping out family.
[size=78%][/size]That said: I would not expect  my marriage to be used in a way that is not natural in either country.[size=78%][/size]It is not common place for this scenario to occur in Belarus ,or any western country.
In fact the sisters(or their husbands) in Russia,  in that scenario don't seem to contribute at all confirming somethings amiss one way or the other?

[Muzh]

If people are not getting what they want in life, they need to either accept it - or examine their behavior, their mental attitude, way of life etc. and try to figure out if there is a positive change that can or should be made. 

Murdering yourself - is a change, yes, but, not a positive change 

Sure. Mental attitude.
 

[civi68]

Bringing a woman here with a child can be challenging. And don't think that if her children are adults and will stay in their home country that issues don't come up that way, like, "you need to send my adult daughter a few hundred a month." Like problems here in relationships, if the man and woman make their kids the priority and not their relationship, the relationship won't last. One of the things I always looked for was whether the woman is happy being with you and not tied to the cell all day obsessing with calls from their child. If I started seeing that most of her happy moments were not around me and most of her good moments was about her child, I proceeded carefully and later found that my instincts were correct. The best women I dated had good boundaries where they wanted a relationship with a man. The woman and her child had a life outside or each other where they didn't need to be together so much. Of course, if the child is young that is not possible. I found it to be very difficult to have a stable if the child was a toddler. The woman has to make the child her priority at that age and the child wants constant attention. Try a visa with a woman with a young child where the relationship is not working too well during the 90 period and your head really spins!

[die_cast]

If people are not getting what they want in life, they need to either accept it - or examine their behavior, their mental attitude, way of life etc. and try to figure out if there is a positive change that can or should be made. 

Now it's even more funny. Can "having a child" be considered as a bad behavior or a mental issue?  And how can I positively change it: send my child to live with his father or my parents? Is it a positive change? 
The way "to accept it" makes me think about a message to all women from (some) men: Don't have children because you have to bring up them all alone (because you are not secured from divorce or your husband's unexpected death). What a ingenious punishment to women with children.

[jmana]

Now it's even more funny. Can "having a child" be considered as a bad behavior or a mental issue?  And how can I positively change it: send my child to live with his father or my parents? Is it a positive change? 
The way "to accept it" makes me think about a message to all women from (some) men: Don't have children because you have to bring up them all alone (because you are not secured from divorce or your husband's unexpected death). What a ingenious punishment to women with children.

It is interesting how, because of the seemingly endless pool of interested women without kids, that women with kids in another country are somehow tainted, while here a single woman with a kid (if she's still good looking) can pick from as many men as one without.  That said, I am having a somewhat difficult time with Alina's daughter.  It's my own fault, I knew there was a lack of discipline, but I didn't realize how much this 4 year old adorable little girl rules her mother's life.  And now that there is some discipline being introduced out of necessity, it is not always pretty.  If I can give any advice, it would be to examine a child's behavior under a microscope, if possible before you even bother to meet the woman.  Find out the details of their relationship, if possible flat out ask how the child behaves and what kind of relationship they have together.

[jone]

It is interesting how, because of the seemingly endless pool of interested women without kids, that women with kids in another country are somehow tainted, while here a single woman with a kid (if she's still good looking) can pick from as many men as one without.  That said, I am having a somewhat difficult time with Alina's daughter.  It's my own fault, I knew there was a lack of discipline, but I didn't realize how much this 4 year old adorable little girl rules her mother's life.  And now that there is some discipline being introduced out of necessity, it is not always pretty.  If I can give any advice, it would be to examine a child's behavior under a microscope, if possible before you even bother to meet the woman.  Find out the details of their relationship, if possible flat out ask how the child behaves and what kind of relationship they have together.

Just temper whatever you do with a lot of love.  And pick out some special things that only the two of you do together.  How good is her English?

[Slumba]

Now it's even more funny. Can "having a child" be considered as a bad behavior or a mental issue?  And how can I positively change it: send my child to live with his father or my parents? Is it a positive change? 
The way "to accept it" makes me think about a message to all women from (some) men: Don't have children because you have to bring up them all alone (because you are not secured from divorce or your husband's unexpected death). What a ingenious punishment to women with children.

The first issue to address - that you view your child as "punishment to women".

[die_cast]

That said, I am having a somewhat difficult time with Alina's daughter.  It's my own fault, I knew there was a lack of discipline, but I didn't realize how much this 4 year old adorable little girl rules her mother's life.  And now that there is some discipline being introduced out of necessity, it is not always pretty.

You know, there are men with kids too. And not many of those kids are "angels", unfortunatelly. The difference between kid and adult person is that it will take much less efforts to change their behaviour, especially if they are younger than 5 y.o. But a lot depends on that how your woman would accept it, on her views on family relationship. So here we go to the point:

If I can give any advice, it would be to examine a child's behavior under a microscope, if possible before you even bother to meet the woman.  Find out the details of their relationship, if possible flat out ask how the child behaves and what kind of relationship they have together.

I, personally, would not examine child's behaviour, as it usually is a result of parent's efforts, kid is not a ruler, remember that. You have to understand the way your woman see the kid's upbringing. You have to know it even if your woman has no kids but you wish to have kids in the future. And with single moms you already can really see that, that would not be just empty words and dreams, with women who already have kids you can see the result, you can see what kind of mother she is.
Another thing you have to remember, it's not an easy thing to bring up a kid all alone, most of single moms are very busy and don't have enough time for their kids, so it can affect an upbringing process (especially if any grandmothers are involved, because they often are spoiling kids) and if a kid would have two parents, she/he would be more disciplined.

The first issue to address - that you view your child as "punishment to women".

No, I don't.  You have to reread my statement to understand it correct.

[jmana]

Just temper whatever you do with a lot of love.  And pick out some special things that only the two of you do together.  How good is her English?

Alina's English is pretty good, her daughter doesn't speak any.  Of course she doesn't speak much Russian either.  And Alina only speaks to her in Russian, which I understand her wanting her daughter to learn both languages, but she just turned 4 and she needs to get up to speed with English in a very short period of time.  And the frustrating thing is it seems Alina doesn't really teach her much, I've been observing her when I'm home and it seems that she'll put on DVD after DVD for her daughter while she plays on the computer.  I'm going to have to have a talk with her because things need to change, but I want to make sure I go about it the right way. 

[Faux Pas]

Alina's English is pretty good, her daughter doesn't speak any.  Of course she doesn't speak much Russian either.  And Alina only speaks to her in Russian, which I understand her wanting her daughter to learn both languages, but she just turned 4 and she needs to get up to speed with English in a very short period of time.  And the frustrating thing is it seems Alina doesn't really teach her much, I've been observing her when I'm home and it seems that she'll put on DVD after DVD for her daughter while she plays on the computer.  I'm going to have to have a talk with her because things need to change, but I want to make sure I go about it the right way.

Just because Alina can speak a second language doesn't mean she can teach it. Seek a professional. Be careful about pressuring her to do so. She is new to this country as well and just because she speaks English doesn't mean she understands everything you think she does. Chances are great she's not getting half of it unless you are taking all of the time to "expound" on everything