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Author Topic: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis  (Read 96045 times)

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Online JayH

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #950 on: February 05, 2017, 03:29:24 PM »
For those  not familiar with a lot of recent history this story will give you a lot. For those that are still failing to see Russian crimes against Ukraine and Ukrainians  you need even more  so to read.

You can't understand the Kremlin's agenda without examining the situation of political prisoners — and Ukrainian citizens feature heavily in this list.

As an aside -- the prosecutor in this case used to be on some of the more notorious "dating"  sites .Her profile( and her) may well be still there!



Making them pay for Maidan


The secret services in Russian-controlled Crimea needed to find a formal pretext for pressing criminal charges against Kostenko and others involved in the EuroMaidan protests, given that their alleged crimes took place on the territory of another state. Therefore Kostenko’s prosecutors resorted to a rarely used article of Russia’s Criminal Code (Article 12, Paragraph 3, link in Russian) which foresees criminal prosecution of an individual who commits a crime against a Russian citizen outside Russia’s borders.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/igor-gukovsky/making-them-pay-for-maidan
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 03:34:21 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online JayH

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #951 on: February 16, 2017, 07:34:42 PM »
Speaking out in Russia against Putin/Kremlin/FSB has proven a very dangerous thing to do in Russia. It is a very brave thing to in the current climate.
All good points being made. If the west is really interested in helping themselves then helping Ukraine is the easiest and fastest way.
A major setback over Ukraine would  see the heat turned on Putin and his Kremlin cronies.

Ukraine’s Friend & Foe Of The Week


On the “60 Minutes” program on state-owned Rossiya 1, Gozman – who heads the Social Movement Union of Right Forces of Russia – openly blamed Russia for the three-year-old war that has killed 10,00 people.

“This terrible war, with victims on both sides, with atrocities and violence – it couldn’t last for more than a day if we didn’t support, with arms, money, and people, these so-called leaders of these (separatist) republics, who from my point of view are simply criminals,” Gozman said.

Gozman blamed not only the Russian government, but also Russian citizens for allowing the war to continue. “We have nothing to do there, our guys have nothing to do there. And the fact that we are supporting people like (separatist leader Alexander) Zakharchenko is our – and yours as a Russian citizen – responsibility,” Gozman said.

He added that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s government wanted to keep the war in Ukraine going to win domestic support.

“Our government gets a lot from this war,” Gozman said. “They get the consolidation of the society, they get an enemy… Having an enemy is important because they need to explain why we have such a bad life.”
He is not alone. Former Russian State Duma Deputy Denis Voronenkov, who defected to Ukraine last year, has called Russia’s 2014 annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea region “ a mistake.”

According to Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, in an interview with Censor.net, Voronenkov compared Russia with

Nazi Germany – saying that Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) controls everything in the country.

Voronenkov called former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, who was toppled by the EuroMaidan Revolution on Feb. 22, 2014, a Kremlin “puppet” who fled to Russia and asked Putin to send Russian troops to Ukraine.

He said that Russia had gone “crazy on its pseudo-patriotic madness” and that “Crimea has united Russia around the idea to steal something from a neighbor.”

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/brian-bonner-ukraines-friend-foe-week-2.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online JayH

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #952 on: February 19, 2017, 06:52:48 PM »
On the anniversary of Maidan many articles are appearing that  brings us up to date. At the time much of this was happening many disputed what we now know as fact  eg  it was Russian special forces who were responsible for the seizure of many buildings and infrastructure in eastern Ukraine  -- and as such was not an uprising against Kyiv rule at all.
Currently there has been a huge escalation in Russian attacks --probably in the attempt to consolidate or expand ground held in anticipation of potential settlement.
Russia, renowned for asking the international community to swallow their obvious lies, is suggesting that Ukraine provoked this escalation, and the reason Ukraine did this, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov asserts, is to draw attention to Ukraine at a time when, frankly, anything might happen because Donald Trump is now in the Oval Ofice.

Fake News? Fake Civil War!

So, let us, finally, dispel the notion that this war, which has killed well in excess of 10,000 people, is any kind of local “separatist” conflict. It is not. You think fake news is a problem? This is a very real and deadly war, but the grounds of it are entirely fake. It is not a local conflict, or an inter-Ukrainian battle – it is Russian trained directed commanded and supplied, as well as ordered.

The Ukrainian towns and cities that were among the first to see fighting, like Slovyansk, are now at peace in free Ukraine. This is an obvious indication of the fact that this conflict was never driven by local agency. The few locals who did indeed participate were the thugs linked to the organized crime gangs that were a hallmark of the Yanukovych era. It is no surprise to see such people coming down on Putin’s side, of course.

In this eastern Ukraine “uprising” fable that Russia has tried to sell to the world, where were the prominent local players? They were nonexistent. The only known Ukrainian that had any kind of leadership position in this attempt to bullshit a state into existence was the repugnant Oleg Tsarov, and he’s not even from the Donbas. The rest of the rag tag band of men tasked by Moscow with wresting this land away from Ukraine, regardless of the will of the people, came from nowhere, or they came from Russia.

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/paul-niland-fake-news-fake-civil-war.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #953 on: March 12, 2017, 04:42:38 PM »
Despite all of this, there are Ukrainians who move back from the West, and even more Russians are moving back now, as they are encountering Russophobia.
There was a door to which I found no key: There was the veil through which I might not see. - Omar Khayyam

Offline Trenchcoat

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #954 on: March 12, 2017, 05:11:57 PM »
On the other hand, if I am a Pom, I might think of it. ;D

And one more reason I do not want to live there. Putin can take the whole country in 2 days if he wants. And we can't do shit about it.

You have a point, yeah I always got the feeling when over there that Putin/Russia could just invade so fast that I could quite likely be caught up in it before I had any chance to effect an escape. The size of the Russian armed forces would no doubt hopelessly swamp that of the Ukraine and Putin might well see an full scale invasion as preferable to dealing with pesky Ukraine. We would then be back to 'the Ukraine' ;) Would not be something I would like to see as I think it brings more variation to the region with Ukrainians having their own country.

For sure though as a Pom I would consider living in Ukraine for a while, I'm not sure about indefinitely. I would only do so though with sound finances and a decent steady and reliable income stream from the UK. That way I could survive and seek out opportunities in Ukraine without worry. The UK is a lot nearer to Ukraine/Russia though so its not literally having to start up a life in the other side of the world. Plus I've always got the feeling that US job opportunities are frequently a lot more lucrative than here so less to give up here, lol. Odessa struck me as quite a nice place to live when over there, Nikolaev, kind of nice in parts but too out in the wilderness for my liking.     

Offline Boethius

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #955 on: March 12, 2017, 05:16:58 PM »
Russia is not going to invade Ukraine.  There is no strategic advantage to do so.
There was a door to which I found no key: There was the veil through which I might not see. - Omar Khayyam

Online JayH

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #956 on: March 12, 2017, 05:31:16 PM »
Russia is not going to invade Ukraine.  There is no strategic advantage to do so.
Please ,please --for those that do not understand--read a few threads and learn before making these types of comments( as per invade & TC response)  .
That is --if you want to keep threads close to topic .Throwing in a galling hand grenade only incites dumbarse ignorant comments.


Added later  --this thread was migrated so my comments were originally in that thread
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 07:48:14 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Trenchcoat

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #957 on: March 12, 2017, 05:42:18 PM »
Russia is not going to invade Ukraine.  There is no strategic advantage to do so.

Tank factory in Kharkiv, Naval ports in Nikolaev, Kherson & Mariupol. Shipbuilding facilities, Coal mining around Donetsk, agricultural and other resources. People productivity, taxes and stuff I probably haven't thought about. People for Army. Shorter territorial front by not having to post troops all around the border of Ukraine. Another opposition country silenced, etc. Sure Russia will have its own Tanks and ships but as they say the more the merrier.

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #958 on: March 12, 2017, 05:58:03 PM »
I had been told the ship building in Nikolaev is pretty much nonexistent now. I did go to the Ship Building museum there. Interesting place.

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #959 on: March 12, 2017, 06:11:25 PM »
Tank factory in Kharkiv, Naval ports in Nikolaev, Kherson & Mariupol. Shipbuilding facilities, Coal mining around Donetsk, agricultural and other resources. People productivity, taxes and stuff I probably haven't thought about. People for Army. Shorter territorial front by not having to post troops all around the border of Ukraine. Another opposition country silenced, etc. Sure Russia will have its own Tanks and ships but as they say the more the merrier.


Russia has tank factories and naval ports.  wallm, there is shipbuilding in Ukraine these days, though not for military sources.


The Kharkiv tank factory only makes about 50 tanks a years (that is 2017).  The high quality coal that was used to make tanks was from Russia.


Productivity of people who are hostile toward you?  Right.  Rather, Russia will have 48 million more mouths to feed.  Russia doesn't want to feed Ukraine.  It doesn't even want to feed Donbas.  It does want Ukraine in its sphere of influence.



There was a door to which I found no key: There was the veil through which I might not see. - Omar Khayyam

Offline Trenchcoat

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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #960 on: March 13, 2017, 04:16:45 AM »
I had been told the ship building in Nikolaev is pretty much nonexistent now. I did go to the Ship Building museum there. Interesting place.

Yeah, I did the tour of the Ship Building Museum too, its ok, certainly a must do when in Nikolaev.

Online JayH

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Why Did Putin Get Stuck in Eastern Ukraine?
« Reply #961 on: April 11, 2017, 03:58:05 AM »
A little recent history -- for those familiar it is worth a recap on parts of this story. For what seems like too many who continue to show ignorance-- read a little and learn a little.
Despite the monumental difficulties Ukrainians face in those days-- incredible bravery saved Ukraine at that time.In a period of huge uncertainty Ukraine became a nation -- a proud and brave nation.
A few words in this short story encapsulates some of it.


Why Did Putin Get Stuck in Eastern Ukraine?


Russia’s hybrid war against Ukraine is now entering its fourth year, but there was a time when few expected it to last even four weeks. The virtually bloodless seizure of Crimea, which fell to Russian troops in early 2014 without a fight, led most observers to conclude that Ukraine was effectively defenseless and at Moscow’s mercy.


http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-did-putin-get-stuck-in-eastern-ukraine
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online jone

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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #962 on: April 11, 2017, 12:01:43 PM »
In the early phases of the fight in Eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian army all but encircled the separatists (paid mercenaries, mostly).  In a response, the Russians sent their best troops in to fight the Ukrainians.  Two encirclements ensued.  Unfortunately, Putin was playing his best Darth Sidious imitation.  If one remembers Star Wars, episode I, Sidious, when confronted with opposition gave his quotable line:  "Wipe them out".  Many Ukrainians lost their lives during this time period as a result of Putin wanting to punish Ukraine and destabilize it for the future.

While Russia still maintains support for Eastern Ukraine, I don't think, absent the Russian use of its air force, that a similar result would be forthcoming.  Ukraine has had a three year opportunity to entrench and rearm.  While Ukraine would not win, Russia would pay a much steeper price than during the initial invasion.
The world is a book:  Those who don't travel read only the first page.

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Russian war crimes in Ukraine are of interest, Mr Tillerson
« Reply #963 on: April 11, 2017, 10:05:16 PM »

US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is reported to have asked G7 ministers why America should care about Ukraine, which the Reuters report says “has been racked by a separatist conflict for the last three years”.  The question, after Russia’s invasion and annexation of another country’s territory, is frankly astounding.  The response from European leaders was rather better, possibly because they have every reason to understand how little the events in eastern Ukraine resemble a ‘separatist conflict’.  All of Russia’s neighbours, including the 3 Baltic States who are members of NATO, are acutely aware that Russia will not stop if it is not forced to. 

Russian war crimes in Ukraine are of interest, Mr Tillerson

Girkin dismissed the likelihood of his ending up before the International Criminal Court in the Hague, in part because he knows too much. Given the number of prominent militant fighters who have been killed in ‘terrorist attacks’ or died under unexplained circumstances, Girkin’s expectations may well be realistic.

One of the most disturbing parts of the Komsomolskaya Pravda program was the way Girkin was introduced to the audience as “hero of the Russian Spring” who “defended Donbas” as the audience’s ancestors had once defended Russia.

During the months that Sloviansk was under militant control, it was hard to keep up with the abductions and hostage-taking and there were a large number of cases of torture and killing as well as extrajudicial executions.  Girkin had his headquarters in the Sloviansk SBU [Security Service] building.  Hostages were held in the basement there, as well as in the central police building, and in both places were subjected to torture

At least one mass grave was found after the militants fled.  This included the bodies of four members of the Evangelical Church of the Transfiguration in Sloviansk: the two sons - Reuben and Albert – of Paster Oleksandr Pavenko, and two deacons of the church Viktor Bradarsky and Volodymyr Velichko.  They had been abducted from the Trinity Sunday festive service on June 8, and are believed to have been tortured and then killed the next day. 
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1491958269
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online jone

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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #964 on: April 11, 2017, 11:07:12 PM »
I seem to recall that you have been censored on here for exposing the forum to liabilities for quoting news articles verbatim.  I am not a moderator and cannot speak for the forum, but the habitual quoting of articles without personal contributions puts our forum at risk. 

Please consider this when posting.
The world is a book:  Those who don't travel read only the first page.

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How Russians Became Fascists
« Reply #965 on: April 12, 2017, 07:54:22 PM »
Some posts and links are self explanatory.

This video shows the striking similarity between the Hitler’s Nazi Germany right before the Second World War and the present-day Putin’s Russia. It draws parallels between the social life in Germany of 1930’s and Russia in 2010’s, and tries to analyze how a regular nation can turn into a herd of fascists. This happens every time when an abused “former empire” decides to “rise from its knees”, and when its nation being encouraged with recent illusive achievements starts to believe in its own superiority.

This video should serve as a reminder of how an uncontrollable power of one sick man supported by millions of brainwashed masses can lead to a big disaster.


Comparison of Hitler’s Germany with Putin’s Russia: How Russians Became Fascists.


« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 07:56:16 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online JayH

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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #966 on: April 20, 2017, 02:53:09 AM »
Interesting article that highlights some fundamentals of current day Russian thinking.
To put it another way --Putin and Russia simply refuse to recognise or accept Ukraine as a free and independent country-- and choose their own version of history.



Why We Continue to Misunderstand Putin’s War in Ukraine


Russian views of Ukraine are long-standing, have broad acceptance in Putin’s regime and even among the opposition, and will not change quickly. Russian great power nationalism and national identity view Ukraine and Ukrainians in four ways.

The first, as Putin tirelessly repeats, is that Russians and Ukrainians are one people. In this perspective, Ukrainians, like Belarusians, are branches of the Russian people

The second concept is that Russian identity is grounded in language and culture; as Putin told the NATO-Russia Council in Bucharest in April 2008, Russian speakers are Russians. Russian nationalist dissidents in the USSR, the well-known writer Alexander Solzhenitsyn, and Putin all believe that eastern and southern Ukraine—and not only Crimea—were wrongly included inside Ukraine by Soviet leader Vladimir Lenin.

Third, Ukraine is not a truly sovereign state; it is an artificial creation propped up domestically by Jewish-Ukrainian oligarchs and externally by the United States and EU.

Fourth, Putin and his fellow FSB officers were socialized into Soviet life during the “era of stagnation”

These underlying elements of Russian nationalism and national identity have shaped Putin’s thinking regarding Ukraine, and yet have been largely ignored by Western experts and policymakers. But without grasping the fundamentals of how Putin and his subordinates view neighboring countries like Ukraine, the international foreign policy community will never fully understand the war Russia has been waging in Ukraine since 2014, and why it will be with us for the foreseeable future.


http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-we-continue-to-misunderstand-putin-s-war-in-ukraine
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online JayH

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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #967 on: April 26, 2017, 03:26:10 AM »
No surprise to most here on forum but more cross confirmation of what is known. It is still interesting to me that Putin and Russia can tell absolutely provable lies and keep telling them ! Even more remarkable are the people that believe them.


Russia Funds and Manages Conflict in Ukraine

In his own words, the Surkov leaks show that the Kremlin directs and funds the ostensibly independent republics in eastern Ukraine and runs military operations there. Yet nearly all media in the West speak about the war in the Donbas as being run by Kremlin-backed separatists, but this isn’t a true characterization. Moscow is actively guiding and managing this breakaway state, down to paying invoices for office equipment. The leaks provides clear, irrefutable evidence that the Donetsk People’s Republic is not an independent actor; it is a creature of the Kremlin and should be treated as such. It’s time for the media and foreign governments to catch up and call it what it is: a Russian hybrid war.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/russia-funds-and-manages-conflict-in-ukraine-leaks-show
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online JayH

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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
« Reply #968 on: April 26, 2017, 04:09:05 AM »
Following on previous post this is also a good summary.

Truth and propaganda about the war in Ukraine

The war currently being waged in Eastern Ukraine is difficult for people who are not familiar with the history of Eastern Europe to understand. Of course, President Vladimir Putin of Russia would have you believe that this is a "civil" war between predominantly Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine fighting for independence from the predominantly Ukrainian-speaking natives of Central and Western Ukraine. His well-oiled and well-funded propaganda machine has also spent considerable time, money and effort trying to convince the Western world that Ukraine's government is dominated by ultra-nationalist fascist forces who seized power back in 2014 in an illegal coup. Muddying up the waters even further, he continues to claim that Russian forces were not involved in the takeover of Crimea, and that there are no Russian soldiers fighting in Eastern Ukraine.

Of course, anyone that takes the trouble to do any fact-checking soon realizes that this is utter nonsense. Worse than that, it clearly demonstrates that one of Putin's most potent forces in the various "hybrid wars" as they have come to be called, is disinformation, or the deliberate manipulation of media to create the big lie that masks his aggressive imperialistic ambitions and actions.


http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/7255729-truth-and-propaganda-about-the-war-in-ukraine/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

 

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