Chișinău

[ML]

. . . while the majority of guys are having NO SEX . . .

Not even close to the actual situation.

My estimate is 10-20 percent of guys aged 18 to 55 are having no sex.

My estimate also is that for males aged 14-25, 20 percent of the guys are having 90 percent of the sex with females.  This is the corollary with the rest of the animal kingdom where dominant males perform all the sex acts with females.

Then at some age for males, societal norms start to intrude on the normal behavior in the human strand of the animal kingdom.

Many females start to want to get married . . . to one man.
Many other females stop agreeing to have sex with a male who is having sex with 10-20 other females.

These desires by females open up the opportunities for previously sex deprived males to have sex.

The institution of marriage was created thousands of years ago in many societies to cut down on the violence perpetrated by testosterone driven males who were denied a sexual outlet due to the small percentage of males copulating with a large percentage of females.

But in more recent times, a reversal has been occuring.  The declining popularaity of marriage and the increase in sexual freedom of females may be causes of the seemingly increased violence of young men.

i.e. a return toward dominance of fewer men having sex with more women . . . and women agreeing to it by their natural attraction to Alpha males together with the freedom to act on this attraction.

Certainly not back to the situation in the wild animal kingdom . . . but moving in that direction ??

[Trenchcoat]

 Hoooooooly nuckerfuts...  Damn man.. you are seriously attached to some dream of a fantasy.. or fantasy of a dream.

You're already thinking about kids, her cheating on you, et al.  That's so ridiculous it's hilarious.  Just go.. and have fun. THAT IS IT. No expectations except to enjoy the process. No pressure (on her OR yourself).  Get laid upside down on the roof.  Whatever.  The main thing is to GO. 

I guess I could go over there and go do that just for the fun of it. I've kind of dropped the idea of anything serious with a girl as above, was kind of putting a bit of pressure on myself with that anyway I guess. Could be fun doing the role of a sex tourist many desperate women for that one and they should be alright for that.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, that mindset will ensure you do not succeed.  It will become a self fulfilling prophecy, because that's what you expect.  Nevertheless, I believe FSUW-WM marriages to have a higher rate of failure than WW-WM marriages.  There's even a study here years ago, if you want to look it up.  I think it's over 50%.  There may be many reasons for that, but it is what it is.

You're right if I'm always looking out for that, if it's always in my mind it can probably cause it by my mind interpreting stuff that happens in that way. Much the same as suspicions of trust can snowball and destroy a relationship.

As you say it's a high figure, I think it's something where if zi ever went serious with a FSW I would have to do so knowing the success rate isn't high and be ready to take a punt at it all the same and not worry about it, that I accept whatever comes, comes.

[Trenchcoat]

guyz without a LOT of relationship experience
wil have a REALLY tough communication problem (of not really being able to) with a foreign woman
linguistic/cultural issues are added on top of the problem of your limited understanding and response to handling conflict and anger, cuz you're cluless on this subject, due to lack of "on the job training"
therefor, you're not only at risk of failure in acquiring a girl friend, even if you succeed, your lack of experience, puts the relationship itself at risk of failure
you have to fail many times before you succeed
but then once you learn how to succeed, you will never again fail

I use all the techniques I learned for "raising" my 15 yr younger wife towards raising my 2 daughters
and I use the same principles to interact with other Russian wimmin I depend on like my "advokat" in Moscva

how successful are my techniques?
a bevy of women dote on me

it's unfair that one guy should get SO MUCH
while so many guys get SO LITTLE

but believe it or not a small percentage of guys (something like 20%) is having MOST of the sex with multiple female sex partners
while the majority of guys are having NO SEX
oh wait....
I forgot, you already knew that, based upon your own empiracal observations

There is probably that behind it Krim, as we know many guys who go out to the FSU and fail give up, some so called 'suceed' first time or so but that's just the start of it, the relationship succeeding is another matter. It could well be a case of knowing that relationships may fail a lot and getting up, moving on and learning from those failures as you say. I've kind of learnt a bit from the failures of the few girls that I met out there. With Kherson girl I believe we both had trust issues and read into everything in a bad way that snowballed for both of us and destroyed the relationship. I was too eager for sex and that I don't think helped. With the girl I met in Lviv I put my foot in it during conversation in several different ways as I lacked knowledge of how FSW are and that screwed that one up. Other girls I met it was other stuff. Had I had a better idea of what I was doing I could have potentially made a success of those relationships. That's not to say though that I would have screwed it up another way but not knowing some other stuff.

So I guess I've got a better take on it now but as can be seen here I can probably be my own worst enemy on stuff and fall down on that.

[Trenchcoat]

Not even close to the actual situation.

My estimate is 10-20 percent of guys aged 18 to 55 are having no sex.

My estimate also is that for males aged 14-25, 20 percent of the guys are having 90 percent of the sex with females.  This is the corollary with the rest of the animal kingdom where dominant males perform all the sex acts with females.

Then at some age for males, societal norms start to intrude on the normal behavior in the human strand of the animal kingdom.

Many females start to want to get married . . . to one man.
Many other females stop agreeing to have sex with a male who is having sex with 10-20 other females.

These desires by females open up the opportunities for previously sex deprived males to have sex.

The institution of marriage was created thousands of years ago in many societies to cut down on the violence perpetrated by testosterone driven males who were denied a sexual outlet due to the small percentage of males copulating with a large percentage of females.

But in more recent times, a reversal has been occuring.  The declining popularaity of marriage and the increase in sexual freedom of females may be causes of the seemingly increased violence of young men.

i.e. a return toward dominance of fewer men having sex with more women . . . and women agreeing to it by their natural attraction to Alpha males together with the freedom to act on this attraction.

Certainly not back to the situation in the wild animal kingdom . . . but moving in that direction ??

I think you're right ML, you're a clever guy. When I look around myself I see society getting into more and more a state. Not just me but many, many people are getting in a bad way out there, many worse of than me, at the moment. I'm not really talking about those that have succeeded, those with some measure of success, a sane enough lifestyle, good bonds, good friendships, etc but those where stuff, society is broken down for them and they are left in a bad place. In the UK many places mostly in poor areas, but increasingly spreading out where relationships just don't work anymore meaning society just doesn't work anymore.

It seems to be a downward decent gathering momentum, fast. I'm not sure how long it will be before society starts to break up for all/most of us as we have known it. The Police can only handle so much, then there is the social disintegration of the functionality of society. That above all else I think may be the biggest thing that society starts to become unfunctioning as people see less and less reason to bother to keep going. The growing violence in society is just one aspect of it all. We've all seen the growing number of mass shootings in the US now a regular phenomena where a decade or so ago it was the odd stand out event. I think big destructive stuff like that will continue to happen and spread. Just the other day I was watching a video of some transvestite dude dressed sort of as a woman hack a couple of shoppers up in a convenience store up with an axe, think it was the US again, but kind of shows how messed up stuff is becoming out there. Bad psychological issues with societal change self harming its citizens. That I put down to changing the role models of women with getting women career minded and in so doing so undermining the guys position and eventually overturning everything. In changing that many thing were changed and it caused massive imbalance in relationships and how we view each other. If society stops working for enough people then it all starts to break down. Globalisation I think too has had massive negative effects on society and undermines a lot.

The 10 percent (some say 20 percent but who knows) of men getting 90 percent of the women that you state ML is probably somewhere near the truth. I've been in on other forums and guys complain no end on them of not being able to get women and not knowing why. In the UK there is a forum called, 'The Student Room' it has a Relationships section and no end of posts on there from guys all the time on that subject. Guys are just finding it very hard to get with women while a few guys are inundated with them (lucky them), but it's creating havoc for society, women just going around being used for sex by the same few guys with something that attracts them, many guys just not getting anything much at all. Then of course there are the girls who are fat and unattractive waiting for a guy to become desperate enough to get with them, few do of course. That's another issue of obesity in society. Men don't like it in women and women don't like it in men yet many women that are obese want a man who isn't and we all know how most men feel about obese women.

Anyhow, the bottom line is as you rightly suggest ML is that no good is coming of all of this, birth rates have plummeted and discontent is starting to reach epic proportions. It's really a ticking time bomb and people are increasingly on the edge in western society and about to teeter over.

[Trenchcoat]

I think also conversely there's a case for a kind of 'only so many women (20, 30 percent?) getting interest from the majority of men' in the West also. I know I tend to be attracted to what as visually the hottest women and most other men probably are also. They probably feel like film stars walking around lol.

The more you go down the looks spectrum with women the harder it probably is for them. Some don't help themselves by not dressing in a feminine way or by keeping trim. I recall one conversation I overheard a few years back in a uni library. This girl was talking to the old librarian dude, she was coming to the end of her course, hadn't gotten into a relationship with any guy and the consensus was between them that there was then just the choice of living alone or moving back in with the parents. Neither of course a place where any young person wants to be. Think the girl was okish looking not massively overweight but not the type to excite most guys. Thing is a lot of the old girl's dressing up to please guys like it used to be in the West isn't as popular these days. Anyhow, just kind of goes to show how society isn't working for many people these days. That kind of social situation is likely a black hole where self destruction is going to go down at some point. My guess is that she moved back in with her parents to delay all that.

[ML]

I want to try to clarify somewhat (might be impossible to do) my earlier statements:

"The declining popularaity of marriage and the increase in sexual freedom of females may be causes of the seemingly increased violence of young men.  i.e. a return toward dominance of fewer men (the Alpha's) having sex with more women . . . and women agreeing to it by their natural attraction to Alpha males together with the freedom to act on this attraction."

I am implying that the increased sexual freedom of females has led to increased violence of young men who are not having sex with females.

But I want to state that I am not blaming females for this centuries old natural attraction to Alpha males.

It is merely the mirror of males centuries old attraction to the visual physical attributes of females (to the dismay, anger and ridicule [men are so shallow !] of many females).

This natural attraction of females to Alpha males has been suppressed (for most females) by societal norms for most recent centuries . . . until the sexual revolution.

Do I have a  solution to this situation?  Not really.

However, a return to a strongly marriage based monogamous worldwide societal order might be a solution ? !

Males with a reliable sexual outlet (with females or males, as the case may be) are less violent.

Females might be the losers, as they give up some of their 'relatively' new sexual freedom and suppress their centuries old natural instinct to copulate only with Alpha males.  But are many (most) females regularly doing this suppression anyway ?

[Trenchcoat]

Thing is ML it's not a pleasant to to make that females wanting 'more' by getting into the workplace in competition with men, equal pay and the rest is causing all of this societal breakdown. Feminists kicks off about it.

Yet it remains the case that when most/all men earn't more, a third more or perhaps even more, it made most men look powerful to a woman. That's what women want! A man who looks powerful, status.

Those women then get with the men and satisfy those men with sex. If the men are earning equal or less than the woman then unless they are attractive looking, gym bod, good socially etc they won't be picked by those women and those men won't get sex. Then as you state the violence will ensue particularly those with more testosterone. The more they see themselves as shut out and off little chance the more frustrated they become.

The guys that have enough of what a woman want then are inundated with girls, so much so sone of them that it can become a problem. Many may wish to be loyal to one girl to be in a monogamous loving relationship, but then hey ho! Up pops a girl with keen interest on them also, then another, then another. Kid in a sweetie shop mentality is then almost push onto the guy as his libedo struggles to refuse such women. He cheats, relationship breaks down and he struggles to end up in a monogamous loving relationship. Instead he's hooked on one night of hot sex after another with many different women.

That's what I mean by it unbalancing it all.

That's just one aspect though, the main one, but if you look at other aspects there's other issues. Housing for example, a woman often wants a guy to live alone not with parents and preferably have his own house. When my Sister in her early thirties divorced her first husband after nine years together and no children and looking for a new guy she turned around and said, 'why are all the men so pathetic!' - they didn't have a house the owned (even if on a mortgage) or they weren't in a good (well paying) job or they were so boring, etc. She eventually found another guy and all's good enough there but the point remains that she had her own house and was cheesed of that most guys didn't. Back in the day it would be the guy that had the house or the guy would get one with the girl but his salary would be what the mortgage was based off. Conversely couples in the UK are now complaining that they can't have the children they want as they can't afford them as they are paying so much for housing.

So more and more bad situations with nothing quite adding up like it used to under the old traditional system.

[krimster2]

first book ya'll shoulda read was "Future Shock" written over 50 yrs ago, it was tryin to describe "today's world" for ya'll....
a world where more and more young people have to live with their parents, cuz their income doesn't allow them to support themselves in "today's" economy
a world where men didn't fare as well as women in terms of education, and the resulting low incomes they earned as a result
the sum of all the economic changes over the last 50 years has devalued low income males far more than it has women
web sites like "tinder" make it easier for "alphas" to succeed, but doesn't give "betas" much help, cuz they don't "present" themselves well visually or have "virtue" signals, etc, cuz they is poor

rather than raging at the "unfairness" of the world that has demoted you, and you should realize what a waste of time that would be
instead, focus on lifting yourself up
we already told ya that yes, you are your own worst enemy Trench, you made very "unoptimal" choices in your life, and those choices left you where you are
now you're up against the clock Trench
the hourglass drips sand every day

instead of "Future Shock" I'd recommend Thoreau's "Walden Pond" for you Trench
to show you how one man, alone, can find happiness in nature, by denying his desires(materialism), very Zen Buddhist for a 19th century Anglo-American
otherwise Trench, you gonna remain in the army of poor men who are living lives of quiet desperation

Trench, if you are so apathetic about your own life
how can you expect some woman to find you attractive?


BTW, the changes that are a'comin are FAR more consequential than what passed these last 50 yr
in numeris veritas
all the excesses of the 20th century
will be completely over by the end of this century
the USA will probably have a new currency, but may still be called "Dollar"
Weimar Germany is a good example of what will happen
I collect currency from the period of financial collapse in Germany after WWI

looking at the debt and fed balance sheet
the numbers say something like that will EVENTUALLY happen here
and the debt was caused by the rich influencing congress to reduce their taxes
by putting spending they benefited from on the gov "credit card"
and get poor people to pay it off

one day ya'll gonna realize that the "masters" are unnecessary
and ya'll have your Louis XVI moment, and realize the masters are the ones who are causing all your misfortune

Trump will be the first master guillotined in the USA
but I hope not the last

I so much would've liked to have experienced the French Revolution at "place de la concorde"
up close....
hmmmmmm delicious....

[Trenchcoat]

Tinder is actually an easy one Krim, that is for those guys with Gym Bods. As said before I did a fake profile briefly, I didn't click on anyone or interact, just to see what the 'competition' was like on there. Basically a lot of guys that are gym rats, they live and breathe in the gym, hang out there all day and most of their photos are from the gym. There's only one reason why so many gym guys what put their profile on tinder and that would be because they are getting some. Otherwise no reason for such a disproportionate representation of the cross section of society on there.

Then of course the occasional 'everyday guy' on there. In fairness I could see why the girls on there would pass over the 'everyday guy' as even as a guy such a guy doesn't compare well to the gym guys. I put my two best photos on there that can land me interest from many a decent woman in the FSU, on Tinder in the UK, only a couple of scraggy looking women past their sell by date, ugly at its worst.

The women on there, well so many looking like they are after the Instagram influencer lifestyle, lots of fake tan, fake eyelashes, loads of makeup overdone, hair with a kind of unnatural semi-curl put in, posh designer handbag, designer clothes, probably suit like, designer stuff possibly fake. Then photographed somewhere posh as if that's where she normally resides. Sure they'll go for a rich dude or expect that lifestyle but most end up going for a gym rat being humped by him and then unceremoniously ditched for the next girl, rinse and repeat. They then complain that all the guys want in there is sex when really all the guys they go for are gym rats that want sex.

Generally you have to be fairly wealthy to have the time to dedicate to gym workout. That or be athletic orientated such as being a footballer, rugby star, other sports stuff. In fairness in the UK you could sit on the dole and go down the gym frequently some do but the moment you start work unless it's jumping and heaving work that isn't that common these days those muscles are going to go pretty fast - welcome to ordinary guy world again. In the UK now the unemployed claiming benefit are increasingly being given hassle to prove they are looking for work all the time so those days may possibly well be ending.

[2tallbill]

Not even close to the actual situation.

My estimate is 10-20 percent of guys aged 18 to 55 are having no sex.

My estimate also is that for males aged 14-25, 20 percent of the guys are having 90 percent of the sex with females.  This is the corollary with the rest of the animal kingdom where dominant males perform all the sex acts with females.

I can't find articles that match your age groups. There aren't as many public studies
on the sex habits of those under 18 and NONE that I can find from 14-25. I did find
this.

Nearly 1 in 3 young men in the US report having no sex, study finds
http://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no

[Trenchcoat]

I can't find articles that match your age groups. There aren't as many public studies
on the sex habits of those under 18 and NONE that I can find from 14-25. I did find
this.

Nearly 1 in 3 young men in the US report having no sex, study finds
http://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no

Doesn't surprise me,but sounds about right. I thought they overplayed the pandemic situation a bit on the findings. I think most even during the pandemic would have got it on if they wanted to. I'm pretty sure that's an accurate reflection of society these days or near as. One third of young men not having sex in that age group is huge, even around previous figures of around 20 percent is large in reality.

So ML's point on male frustration and hence violence due to lack of sexual activity is likely true I reckon.

The thing is in theory if a load of men jumped up and went out and raped women to fulfill their sexual urges what then? I doubt any nation has the capacity to bang up a third or more of it's male population, never mind the economic fall off and cost of doing so. That's of course if any of the men went willingly without putting up a fight, etc. The more men that would do so under such a scenario the more difficult a situation that would be for the state.

That aside I can see such a lack of men not getting any as not going anywhere good for society. At the very least that likely to add up to men not wanting to contribute to society or be very motivated to do much. As was found in the article those least getting any tended to be low income, etc so that correlates to my point that societal change away from the traditional system has led to an imbalance where females will no longer look at those males as they see themselves as a touch above even if they are earning the same sort of money. The modern system we use in the west is fuelling a lot of issues it seems, if we press on regardless down this path as we have been it's only a matter of time before societal collapse and break up occurs it seems.

[Trenchcoat]

Of course add to that figure (the one third) guys that are getting with fatties, ugly girls and girls they are not really interested in just to fill the void. As in they would rather get with anything rather than use their hand or a sex doll no matter how much of a turn off the girl is. So if that was considered as part of the figure then the figure could be as high a half or two thirds or more of men as not really getting the desired sex they want.

Use of prostitutes might also be taken into account, particularly the rise of stuff like Fans Only which was particularly popular during the pandemic. Can we really count guys paying for sex as guys having sex? In theory they are having sex but it's kind of cheating so really we should be talking about consensual non paid for sex but my guess is the figures in the article may not take use of prostitutes into account.

[Trenchcoat]

Also there's probably a fair amount of dudes in that figure that get with girls from other ethnic groups they wouldn't otherwise consider, Asian, Oriental, African, etc. I'm pretty sure that even I for example could get with an Indian girl if I wanted as they would see a white dude as a big elevation up the social ladder, they could have kids that would quite possibly be more white looking, fit in a little more with western culture, etc. Not really my bag I've never gone there but some dudes might especially if just wanting then just for sex.

So the number of guts that can get with a white girl that is decent that they would be happy with for sex probably isn't that high, some will be in proper relationships some one night stands/with benefits situations, etc.

[krimster2]

Trench,
you're stuck looking at this problem as a "sexual fullfillment" issue
it's MUCH bigger than that
if you have a successful marriage, it makes you both stronger facing life's adversities vrs being alone
however, if you ONLY look at wimmin as "sexual objects" then you overlook all the other qualities, which in the long run are of GREATER value

as Mark Twain once said, "I'd never be a member of any club that would accept me as a member"
for you, this would be, "you'd never date a girl on your level" because you wouldn't find her attractive
well..
as ye judge, so are ye judged Trench

listen, to what the world is trying to tell you Trench in so many different ways
but you are deaf and blind Trench
and do not hear or see what's right in freakin front of you
why are you this way?
only you can answer that

the best thing you could do for yourself, is GTF out of yo mama's village
leave your comfort zone and go live in the big city
improve your life
and as if by "an invisible hand" your fortunes will be lifted
physician, learn to "heal thyself"
and go and sin no more

[Trenchcoat]

Trench,
you're stuck looking at this problem as a "sexual fullfillment" issue
it's MUCH bigger than that
if you have a successful marriage, it makes you both stronger facing life's adversities vrs being alone
however, if you ONLY look at wimmin as "sexual objects" then you overlook all the other qualities, which in the long run are of GREATER value

as Mark Twain once said, "I'd never be a member of any club that would accept me as a member"
for you, this would be, "you'd never date a girl on your level" because you wouldn't find her attractive
well..
as ye judge, so are ye judged Trench

listen, to what the world is trying to tell you Trench in so many different ways
but you are deaf and blind Trench
and do not hear or see what's right in freakin front of you
why are you this way?
only you can answer that

the best thing you could do for yourself, is GTF out of yo mama's village
leave your comfort zone and go live in the big city
improve your life
and as if by "an invisible hand" your fortunes will be lifted
physician, learn to "heal thyself"
and go and sin no more

I get that there are more women in a big city Krim but it's not always as easy as that. London for example can be a very lonely place if you don't know anyone. Getting to know people in London is not always easy, some places in London better or worse than others. I've done London but I'm not really a big city person. Could I meet someone there? Possibly but I can do that many places.

The problem is really more the society I am in not favouring what I want. I get what you are saying, look at what there is and be open to it. As at the end of the day there is what there is not what I currently or have been desiring. Some stuff I would be utterly opposed to, fat women just make me balk it's just awful the thought of being in bed with a girl with a load of fat slopping around in a scary and unsightly manner. For me it would be like jumping into bed with a gay guy when I'm straight.

That brings me to other ethnicities, to be honest they are the easy choice, they are easy to get with usually and as long as the guy acts reasonably odds are the relationship would last. African women definitely not for me, too dark and often too vocal sure a few may have their own charm, sone can get a bit large. Asian women well traditionally that's not been an area I was brought up to go, it may not sit all that well but most are at least slim moreso when younger. Oriental women are an easier fit, a great culture, often kind of small and not always that aware but again theoretically an option I guess.

It's not that I have a big racial issue but I'm more one for roughly keeping to the Hispanic scene. I personally think I can potentially do it now in the FSU it's just not always that simple. Even if I got a girl back here it's not necessarily that simple though of course a ethnic girl can't upgrade like an East European can that easily so an ethnic girl in the UK would have that advantage over an East European girl.

[krimster2]

" but it's not always as easy as that"

life NEVER is, but the "truth" is usually on the side of doing the thing that is the most difficult
and your nature is to avoid difficulties
and follow the path of least resistance
and that's pretty much screwed your life
and now you're trying to find the easiest way out of the corner you painted yourself into
not yet realizing that there is none

you have a choice Trench
you can do the hard thing, or you can do the easy thing

one of your problems Trench, you have "no discipline"
I learned it from being in two militaries
what they taught me, saved my life, and instilled within me a strong determination to overcome all the hardships that comes with being a soldier
HUGE difference in me, before the military and after
too late for you to get this kind of training now
OTOH, I would not be the person I am today without it
probably woulda been more like you

if you don't lift yourself up
then your gonna just have to learn to live with the consequnces
don't blame others for this
it's all "on you"

[Trenchcoat]

" but it's not always as easy as that"

life NEVER is, but the "truth" is usually on the side of doing the thing that is the most difficult
and your nature is to avoid difficulties
and follow the path of least resistance
and that's pretty much screwed your life
and now you're trying to find the easiest way out of the corner you painted yourself into
not yet realizing that there is none

you have a choice Trench
you can do the hard thing, or you can do the easy thing

one of your problems Trench, you have "no discipline"
I learned it from being in two militaries
what they taught me, saved my life, and instilled within me a strong determination to overcome all the hardships that comes with being a soldier
HUGE difference in me, before the military and after
too late for you to get this kind of training now
OTOH, I would not be the person I am today without it
probably woulda been more like you

if you don't lift yourself up
then your gonna just have to learn to live with the consequnces
don't blame others for this
it's all "on you"

I disagree Krim, you go ask Stirlitz if he's still among us how he is doing? On the other forum (I tend not to do that forum as don't have time to do two FSU forums so only look occasionally once every blue moon) he's telling us that he's life is now not really any life, gone south since the Russians took over Crimea and more so due to this war. Here back in December I think he tells us that he only had had one terp job in the last six months. So he is not doing at all well, his place in Crimea long gone and now living in poverty in Odessa last we heard with air sirens going off and missiles raining down on a frequent basis.

So you go tell him it's not about his situation it's him and that his military service training should be making him coming up smelling of roses even during all of that.

Krim you got lucky my man, I'm not saying your time in the military was easy but many people's time who didn't go in the military isn't easy. People not in the military are not assured regular pay, any little screw up, disliking of their boss/employer, bad economic times and bang their goes their job, their income, and possibly any decent lifestyle. In the military you are shielded from all of that, you have to screw up really badly or make a real pain in the backside of yourself for them to kick you out (dishonourable discharge). In the US they have even more crazy money than in the UK to spend on their troops by sending them to Uni's funded by them, etc. Most troops want for nothing, they get their Accommodation paid for free of charge, good income, good military pensions. If you get up to Officer rank the income, pensions etc are even better.

The reason I did not go for the military was/is that I am Anti-Monarchist. In the UK if you are in the military you have to swear an oath of allegiance to the Crown and of course out up with any visitations they make. There no way I am swearing any oath of allegiance to that lot, principles mean something to me.

In any case I saw that I could make a go off life outside of the military, I could go to Uni and get qualified without needing the military. That is what I did, sure it didn't turn out to be a well paying situation but most people make mistakes in life. There were plenty of other students on my course making that same mistake not just me. I had no inkling that a few years down the line mass immigration from Eastern Europe would come and with it flat wages and extortionate house prices. I had no inkling that women would put economic matters at the top of importance as a result, etc.

As 2tallbill's article shows it is not just me but a wide spread problem in western countries, one third of young guys at the height of their sexual activity years just can't get laid for the love of it. I suggest that in reality others are taking choices they wouldn't ordinarily take if the women they get with.

The UK is not the 'Land of Opportunity' Krim, it's a heavily competitive country over low paid work. Any well paid number in the offing and loads of people want in. A few people will get very well paid but not many. In the US beyond poverty level society there is the incentive of well paid work and the chance to get in, in the UK that is not the case. I can't go to the US as it's extremely difficult to get a Visa. They don't favour UK guys any more that was decades ago. So I am here in the UK and being one of most people who can't land a very well paid job I go for the property scene, it's one of the few very high growth areas in the UK that you don't need to be Einstein or very well connected to get into.

Many people try to get on in the UK each day, they place their bets wildly on music or bodybuilding or becoming a celebrity, a sports star, a Stockbroker, etc; or they place their bets more conservatively going for everyday jobs in middle management, human resources, payroll, admin, etc sometimes just anything that will bring in the standard wage without a real headbanging of a day at work each day. Some get lucky but most just survive to live the same over the next day. That's real life in the UK Krim.

[krimster2]

Trench, WTF, war time in Ukraine vrs peace time in the UK
big difference!!!! big difference in anything between ukraine and uk

Luck?
I found my gift at a very young age, naturally gifted in math and science
easy to cultivate this talent - jobs in US and Israeli army as a radar technician
free education, both military and university
and many, many perks, some of which I still receive
like access to vaccines in Israel I could never get in the USA like smallpox for example
(I needed Anthrax and smallpox vaccines for safety in Vozrozhdeniya Island Kazakhstan/Uzbekistan)

after graduation
I was willing to relocate thousands of miles to further my career
and did that multiple times in multiple countries
worked my ass off - sometimes 80 hour weeks, 60+ hours were normal, sometimes had one primary job and part time 2/3 secondary jobs
founded my own company that made me my first million
all before I was 35

in the 90s worked 6 months in cambridge on a contract
back then the average software engineerI I worked with in the UK made about 60,000+ pounds year
don't know what current salary levels are
also knew lots of UK software engineers who pre-brexit could easily work in France, Toulouse being a popular hi-tek spot
what a great life those guys had, I was REALLY envious
but of course, fear of immigrants ruined that opportunity for ya'll

WTF were you thinking being a "history major" and living in a rural village?
guarantees you're gonna be poor, and ya ain't gonna have no girlfriend
you shoulda considered that before making such a choice
or was the outcome a complete surprise?

www.mymommasvillage.com
ain't got no job board, cuz they ain't got no jobs
and ain't got no singles page either
cuz there's like what 5 single women your age there

as the great English philosophers known as the Clash said back in the 80s
my mama's village is drowning, and IIIIIIIIIIII, I live by the river

so WTF,  don't live in yo' mama's village by the river
duh....

[Daveman]

I guess I could go over there and go do that just for the fun of it. I've kind of dropped the idea of anything serious with a girl as above, was kind of putting a bit of pressure on myself with that anyway I guess. Could be fun doing the role of a sex tourist many desperate women for that one and they should be alright for that.

I didn't state sex tourist -- more like, have fun upside down on the roof. heh...  It's always for the fun of it. If you're NOT having fun, and not just sexually, she's not for you.

The point is -- you need practice with women or you'll have your ass handed to you (most likely for trying to please them, be all respectful, blah blah et al, general weak assed nice-guy brainwashed garbage that quite literally repels women). You refuse to approach English babes, so go date abroad just to date. It's a simple flight for you.  Hell, you can almost have day trips. 

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, WTF, war time in Ukraine vrs peace time in the UK
big difference!!!! big difference in anything between ukraine and uk

Luck?
I found my gift at a very young age, naturally gifted in math and science
easy to cultivate this talent - jobs in US and Israeli army as a radar technician
free education, both military and university
and many, many perks, some of which I still receive
like access to vaccines in Israel I could never get in the USA like smallpox for example
(I needed Anthrax and smallpox vaccines for safety in Vozrozhdeniya Island Kazakhstan/Uzbekistan)

after graduation
I was willing to relocate thousands of miles to further my career
and did that multiple times in multiple countries
worked my ass off - sometimes 80 hour weeks, 60+ hours were normal, sometimes had one primary job and part time 2/3 secondary jobs
founded my own company that made me my first million
all before I was 35

in the 90s worked 6 months in cambridge on a contract
back then the average software engineerI I worked with in the UK made about 60,000+ pounds year
don't know what current salary levels are
also knew lots of UK software engineers who pre-brexit could easily work in France, Toulouse being a popular hi-tek spot
what a great life those guys had, I was REALLY envious
but of course, fear of immigrants ruined that opportunity for ya'll

WTF were you thinking being a "history major" and living in a rural village?
guarantees you're gonna be poor, and ya ain't gonna have no girlfriend
you shoulda considered that before making such a choice
or was the outcome a complete surprise?

www.mymommasvillage.com
ain't got no job board, cuz they ain't got no jobs
and ain't got no singles page either
cuz there's like what 5 single women your age there

as the great English philosophers known as the Clash said back in the 80s
my mama's village is drowning, and IIIIIIIIIIII, I live by the river

so WTF,  don't live in yo' mama's village by the river
duh....

I know of people that have earned that sort of money and a little above in IT. I didn't know back when I chose History how much they made. That said those I know of have been very good at Maths, exactly what level is needed I don't know precisely. I did better than expected with my Maths GCSE, I got a B, the highest I could get on the paper we were put in for, for the Set (Maths Group) I was in. I think I must have aced that exam paper as my Maths coursework was only D/C level (the coursework made up 50 percent of the mark, exam the other 50 percent). In the exam I kind of felt that I was progressing well and finished all questions but knew that sometimes when you think you've done well you haven't but luckily for me I had.

So, after getting my results a few months later I decided to give A Level Maths a try, along with History & Business Studies A Level. I didn't last long at the Maths (I think it was both pure & applied whatever that meant) I lasted about six weeks with each week sessions me trying to follow, it was fast paced. It was also stuff I had never done before, Quadratics, Simultaneous Equations, Calculus, are the names I can remember, much harder than the Algebra & Trigonometry stuff I had done at GCSE. I was getting about 1 out of 10 questions or 2 out of 20 questions right on the tests at the end of the sessions. I was out of my depth and new if I continues it wasn't going to end with a pass in two years time. So instead I switched to Sociology, yes I know another subject like History that doesn't usually pay well.

Some of the guts in the A Level Maths were really quick of the mark and got off on the whole fast pace if it all I think. Many of them were also doing A Level IT, I gather from what I heard that was not an easy one. I didn't go for A Level IT as I did not choose GCSE IT as an option in High School. My father I think it was did not think I would be up to it as my Sister had struggled and she was seen as more hard working than me. However my Sister did not have a computer at home, I did and she really didn't have great interest in computing, think the term nerd was used

So would I have been capable of making it in IT???

GCSE level in IT I think I could have potentially have got, A Level IT perhaps a lot more questionable. You would likely have a better idea than I on the level of Maths needed for IT and whether I would be in the frame.

I've heard that Algebra may be handy for it and I've did a few lines of the most very basic tapping out of code on my computer at home way back in the 90s as a kid, it's strange stuff. I never really got a good take on it though as back then it was all hoccus poccus looking and feeling and understanding what all this coding stuff was about was kind of a mystery. It was like copying a load of code out of a magazine or book, not knowing what most it meant and hoping something would happen at the end of it, sometimes possibly often nothing at all. So it really was pretty arcane feeling.

Anyhow, yes IT became one of the areas you could earn a lot and probably still is in the UK. If you don't have the high enough Maths skills then you're screwed I assume in terms of getting into that field. Other than IT though and the stuff I've already mentioned that is about where most of the good money is. Business it is hard to make money as everyone else is at it unless you find a niche that works out well or just get plain lucky.

So that brings us to Brexit, yes I can see if you're an IT guy earning a lot of money and doing it abroad somewhere pleasant and warm then it's all good for you. However, IT guys are a very small minority of Brits, very small in number of the UK workforce. Most of the UK workforce work in jobs that anyone could do or sit in a training course that most would understand to do. Makes no sense then going abroad to earn the same or less plus need to speak fluently in a foreign language. It makes sense however to close the door on a huge crowd of East Europeans able to do the same everyday work, flattening wages and filling up accommodation raising house prices and rent. So all depends where your bread is buttered I guess.

[Trenchcoat]

I didn't state sex tourist -- more like, have fun upside down on the roof. heh...  It's always for the fun of it. If you're NOT having fun, and not just sexually, she's not for you.

The point is -- you need practice with women or you'll have your ass handed to you (most likely for trying to please them, be all respectful, blah blah et al, general weak assed nice-guy brainwashed garbage that quite literally repels women). You refuse to approach English babes, so go date abroad just to date. It's a simple flight for you.  Hell, you can almost have day trips. 

I know I was just joking

Though in a way it's not such a bad way to think about it to take away from putting any pressure on. I know what you mean though, just go over there and date for fun (in a not necessarily sex way). If nothing much comes off it then just go from there rather than trying to think several steps ahead as I've been doing and worrying about a load of stuff that might never come to pass anyway. I think that the way I'll go about it Daveman, I think you're pretty much right and don't worry about the rest.

[krimster2]

Trench, it could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning or cautionary tale to others
if that's the case, then you've done well, despite having more issues than the London Times (dawg, I miss the Sun's Page 3 girls)

there IS NO easy way out for you - stop wasting your time tryin to find one
either do the hard work you need to do
or accept who you are and learn to live with it

make whatever choice suits you
but stop tryin to get somethin for nothin
in Chinese (cantonese, don't know mandarin version) there is a sayin WEI WU WAY - means nothing for nothing i.e. if you offer nothing in exchange you get nothing in return....
don't you see how this works
if what you're offering is of so little value, why do expect to receive a high price for it?
hopeful optimism? or ignorance of the situation you're in in?

maybe a better idea, is to lower your price
and switch to a better bigger market

but yo mama's village market and a couple of times checkin out ukraine/moldovan market
is not really a serious effort at marketing yourself trench
but you are resistant to making any changes in yourself
cuz of your laziness
you prefer to "take things easy" as opposed to performing hard effort especially a mental one
and choose the EZ path and you think that's the optimum path cuz it's the easiest
this is ALWAYS the FLAW IN YOUR THINKING

to a Russian/Ukrainian woman ain't nothin worse than that
I guarantee ya a russian woman will be even WAY more critical of you than me

yes, yes, poor trench, so unfair...I know... there...there...
dry your eyes of tears Trench
declare war on who you are and fight for victory, like your life depends on it
cuz, well, it does, actually

me bruv, listen
you need to see and understand what this poor messanger is tellin ya
inspire yourself to do better, what do you have to really lose by trying to change who you are, compared to the risk of remaining as you are?
see my point?
do the difficult thing and not the easiest
ACT, take action, and stop day dreamin about hot Ukrainian wimmin as a substitute

cuz you can't get NO SATISFACTION
you can't get you NO
SATISFACTION

and you TRIED, and you TRIED, and you TRIED
but you can't get ya no SATISFACTION

many appy polly loggies to Mr Jagger
'aye laddie, aye once trod 'neath the bells O' St Michaels

di you know I'm a key holding member of the Disraeli Society in London with full club privileges (haven't been since before covid)
I locked up my pass key in a safe, but I got so high I don't remeber which one or i'd show it to you

good thing i'm retiring a couple of months from now
cuz due to a history of extensive drug abuse
i've forgotten a lotta stuff
which was the whole point of takin drugs in the first place
so ain't gonna feel bat a'tall
cuz it did EXACTLY what I wanted

but kids...
don't DO drugs, and stay in school, OK?
(boomers like me need ya'll to pay our pensions)
don't worry YOU won't get a pension, so your children won't have to support the last generation like you do
i'm sure that's a big relieft to hear
it is to ME!!!  LOL!!!

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, it could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning or cautionary tale to others
if that's the case, then you've done well, despite having more issues than the London Times (dawg, I miss the Sun's Page 3 girls)

there IS NO easy way out for you - stop wasting your time tryin to find one
either do the hard work you need to do
or accept who you are and learn to live with it

make whatever choice suits you
but stop tryin to get somethin for nothin
in Chinese (cantonese, don't know mandarin version) there is a sayin WEI WU WAY - means nothing for nothing i.e. if you offer nothing in exchange you get nothing in return....
don't you see how this works
if what you're offering is of so little value, why do expect to receive a high price for it?
hopeful optimism? or ignorance of the situation you're in in?

maybe a better idea, is to lower your price
and switch to a better bigger market

but yo mama's village market and a couple of times checkin out ukraine/moldovan market
is not really a serious effort at marketing yourself trench
but you are resistant to making any changes in yourself
cuz of your laziness
you prefer to "take things easy" as opposed to performing hard effort especially a mental one
and choose the EZ path and you think that's the optimum path cuz it's the easiest
this is ALWAYS the FLAW IN YOUR THINKING

to a Russian/Ukrainian woman ain't nothin worse than that
I guarantee ya a russian woman will be even WAY more critical of you than me

yes, yes, poor trench, so unfair...I know... there...there...
dry your eyes of tears Trench
declare war on who you are and fight for victory, like your life depends on it
cuz, well, it does, actually

me bruv, listen
you need to see and understand what this poor messanger is tellin ya
inspire yourself to do better, what do you have to really lose by trying to change who you are, compared to the risk of remaining as you are?
see my point?
do the difficult thing and not the easiest
ACT, take action, and stop day dreamin about hot Ukrainian wimmin as a substitute

cuz you can't get NO SATISFACTION
you can't get you NO
SATISFACTION

and you TRIED, and you TRIED, and you TRIED
but you can't get ya no SATISFACTION

many appy polly loggies to Mr Jagger
'aye laddie, aye once trod 'neath the bells O' St Michaels

di you know I'm a key holding member of the Disraeli Society in London with full club privileges (haven't been since before covid)
I locked up my pass key in a safe, but I got so high I don't remeber which one or i'd show it to you

good thing i'm retiring a couple of months from now
cuz due to a history of extensive drug abuse
i've forgotten a lotta stuff
which was the whole point of takin drugs in the first place
so ain't gonna feel bat a'tall
cuz it did EXACTLY what I wanted

but kids...
don't DO drugs, and stay in school, OK?
(boomers like me need ya'll to pay our pensions)
don't worry YOU won't get a pension, so your children won't have to support the last generation like you do
i'm sure that's a big relieft to hear
it is to ME!!!  LOL!!!

That I absolutely do believe.

However, what am I supposed to do?

Get into IT at my age??? I'm guessing to get to the top level stuff I would have to need A Level Maths, the real hardcore stuff.

Remember the UK is not the US, there are only so many good gigs to get at and all of them with people wishing they could get in. Top IT stuff like you done likely requires sh*t hot Maths & IT skills like you have. Most people don't have a mind that can do hard high level maths stuff. Most people if you ask them out on the streets hated maths, sone more than others. I never minded it at all but while I'm better than many I doubt whether I could master hard A Level Maths stuff. Even if I did there is also training up in IT side of it as well I presume to make use of it. Then there is whether I could stand the job.

You of course Krim are Autistic with a genetic gift for Maths (and hence IT). That means you can get into that top IT stuff that most other people can't. They can't as if they remotely could those top IT jobs wouldn't pay well at all, Employers would have waiting rooms full of applicants, and the pay would sink to a flat level like most other jobs out there. Imagine that a world of people naturally superb at Maths then where would you be, hmmnn

Other people get other stuff, some naturally superb at sports, tennis, basketball, American football, etc. A few naturally good singers & pretty looking at the same time, etc, etc but they are all in the few rare people that can get in. Ever been to the cinema and look on screen at the movie stars and the credits roll and wish you had that kind of lucky break?

I'm not Actor, Singer, Sports Star and probably no top IT guy. Most people aren't and just have to go with whatever hand they are dealt in life, their not all lazy, some work very hard for very little but where else are they supposed to go? Some are gifted in a field that doesn't pay good money for their gift or is easily exploited, how many good designers have had their idea ripped off? Etc.

You got lucky Krim in that you got some genes that meant you were superb at maths, something that is a limited commodity in society. You could have gotten other genes that meant you wouldn't have been that good then where would you be? Possibly selling some old used cr*p on eBay to pay the rent on a squalid hovel???

I don't doubt FSW want a man to deliver for them and would rather he be out all hours of the day and risk dropping dead than have a bit of free time to relax. I don't really have an answer to that. I can provide a modest house, food, car, and some entertainment, etc but I'm not Master of the Universe. They will just have to accept that and accept I can at least provide more than most FSUM. Not everyone can obtain grandeur and greatness in this world it's just not geared that way.

[krimster2]

Trench,
accordin to some feller named  Thomas Edison, genius is 1 percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration
which one of those two qualities are you MOST deficient in?

I see...
said the blind man as he reached for his hammer and saw