Should I Order for Her?

[Trenchcoat]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

[JayH]

Probably best if you take a pie & sauce from Tesco for her.
She would need to get used to your idea of a good feed !

[BillyB]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

Order her some veggie appetizer with water...if it's free and get yourself a steak and lobster meal! Of course your reasoning is that you care about her health and want to keep her slim.

Actually ordering for a woman has nothing to do with being a MAN. Let her choose what she wants to eat and drink and if you don't like it because she eats like a pig or orders all the most expensive items on the menu, you don't have to ask her out again.

[alex330]

My wife appreciates it when I order for her. Was a bit unusual for me initially as in the past I would let the woman decide and order for herself. But RW enjoy little things like that at times.

If you are meeting for the first time it might be a little awkward... maybe she is allergic to the peanut encrusted sea bass. Or has not dined out very often and does not want borsch as it is considered everyday food.

If you let her decide what to order you can also weed out the old diggers very easily. Or any undesireable vegans. You dont want to end up marrying a vegan. That would be horrendous.

[fathertime]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

Personally, I would let her decide what she wants to eat, and that has nothing to do with being a man or not being a man..imo. 
Fathertime!

[HoundDaddyLee]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

Based on this your Russian skills must be very good. 


I joke, but you will be lucky if you have an English menu so you can have hope that you order for yourself. In other words, she will probably find out what you want and order for both of you. At home when dating or when I was married, I would find out what my gf/wife wanted and order for both of us. I have never chosen the meal for the woman.


HDL

[SANDRO43]

Personally, I would let her decide what she wants to eat, and that has nothing to do with being a man or not being a man..imo.  Fathertime!

It has to do with good manners . However, you can offer suggestions, and say what you're having.

[Trenchcoat]

My wife appreciates it when I order for her. Was a bit unusual for me initially as in the past I would let the woman decide and order for herself. But RW enjoy little things like that at times.

If you are meeting for the first time it might be a little awkward... maybe she is allergic to the peanut encrusted sea bass. Or has not dined out very often and does not want borsch as it is considered everyday food.

If you let her decide what to order you can also weed out the old diggers very easily. Or any undesireable vegans. You dont want to end up marrying a vegan. That would be horrendous.

Thanks for the good advice Alex, never ceases to amaze me how even little things we do can help us in our search for a decent FSW and give us all important telling signs, top level FSW dating skills indeed

[Boethius]

I disagree on the golddigger comment.  If you are looking for golddigging, you are going to find it even if it doesn't exist.  Ordering the most expensive item on a menu is not necessarily an indication of golddigging.  An FSUM would not bat an eye at this.

[alex330]

Ordering the most expensive item on a menu is not necessarily an indication of golddigging.  An FSUM would not bat an eye at this.

You are correct. They would not need to as a woman would never even try a stunt like this with them.

[Boethius]

I disagree.  I've had this discussion with different generations of FSUM, from ages (now) 20 to over 80, just to gauge if the better half's view is representative of the current generation, the older generation, and those in between.

I would describe an FSUM's attitude as, if he is taking a woman out, he has invited her and she is free to order what she wishes.  If he can't afford it, he wouldn't have asked her out.  If she orders the most expensive items on a menu, the implication usually is she is going to sleep with him.  It's a certain layer of their society, but that is well known, and that hasn't changed in two generations.

ETA - I asked the better half about this. His response was that Westerners are always looking for the worst in FSU individuals. His view is, if she orders the most expensive thing on the menu it's probably because for her, it's what appealed to her.  He also said this view of golddiggers is, generally, unheard of in FSU societies.  It's part of Western mentality, not their mentality. 

Personally, I'd be looking at character traits generally.  Does she have a current FSU man in her life?  If so, why is she dating a foreigner?  That is actually more common than golddiggers (i.e., a UW ditching a UM she allegedly loves for the opportunity to marry a WM).  To each his own, but to me, this would signify that what she did to her current partner, she could eventually do to me.  How does she treat her friends?  Her parents/siblings?  Does she work?  If so, is she dependable at that job?  Is her apartment clean?  If it's important to you, does she know how to cook?  Has she offered to cook a meal for you?  Are her emotions stable or volatile (again, a personal preference).  There are hundreds of little things you can observe to determine if this is the person for you.

[alex330]

I disagree.  I've had this discussion with different generations of FSUM, from ages (now) 20 to over 80, just to gauge if the better half's view is representative of the current generation, the older generation, and those in between.

I would describe an FSUM's attitude as, if he is taking a woman out, he has invited her and she is free to order what she wishes.  If he can't afford it, he wouldn't have asked her out.  If she orders the most expensive items on a menu, the implication usually is she is going to sleep with him.  It's a certain layer of their society, but that is well known, and that hasn't changed in two generations.

ETA - I asked the better half about this. His response was that Westerners are always looking for the worst in FSU individuals. His view is, if she orders the most expensive thing on the menu it's probably because for her, it's what appealed to her.  He also said this view of golddiggers is, generally, unheard of in FSU societies.  It's part of Western mentality, not their mentality.

My wife agrees that Russian men will always pay. But she also says a normal woman will not order the most expensive item on the menu. We are not talking a $32 entree versus a $25 dish here. We are talking the chefs five pound stuffed lobster special.

If the date is with an American, the women will usually order more expensive because "all Americans are rich."

Gold diggers are not unheard of in FSU culture. Most of the men in this forum have been on dates with them in the FSU.  The people in Eastern Europe are not sheltered from general popular culture. Times have changed. She says the sex thing is outdated as well.

[alex330]

[Boethius]

I don't disagree with the "normal woman" part.  But it doesn't mean she's a golddigger.  Note my comments on and post date experience.

I asked a 21 year old nephew and a 24 year old cousin specifically about the sex thing (from the male perspective), and both confirmed it's still the same.  I asked a few months ago, when this came up on the forum previously.

I think often, WM see what they want to see.  Golddiggers are rare in every society, including FSU societies.  That said, those that aren't dating wealthy men in their own countries would gravitate to WM.  However, they're not going to waste time on an expensive meal.

[alex330]

Personally, I'd be looking at character traits generally.  Does she have a current FSU man in her life?  If so, why is she dating a foreigner?  That is actually more common than golddiggers (i.e., a UW ditching a UM she allegedly loves for the opportunity to marry a WM).  To each his own, but to me, this would signify that what she did to her current partner, she could eventually do to me.  How does she treat her friends?  Her parents/siblings?  Does she work?  If so, is she dependable at that job?  Is her apartment clean?  If it's important to you, does she know how to cook?  Has she offered to cook a meal for you?  Are her emotions stable or volatile (again, a personal preference).  There are hundreds of little things you can observe to determine if this is the person for you.

Yes, many of these would be more important indicators for myself. They have done studies that show how someone treats the waiter at a restaurant is a very good indicator as well. Not sure how that translates in FSU culture as my understanding is restaurant help is looked down in usually...

[Gator]

Trenchcoat,

If this is a first meeting, avoid the expensive restaurant.  Save the more expensive restaurants for when you have a relationship.

At a moderate, yet recommended restaurant, suggest to her to order anything she wants. In fact, tell her the most expensive dish, Shrimp dipped in Dniper Sludge,  looks "delicious" and suggest she order it.   

I usually ran into the opposite problem.  Most women who want to impress a man are coached to smile, say "Thank You" at any opportunity, and act as if they frugal, so they ordered something not expensive and said "Thank You."   Some said all they wanted was salad. 

When in Thailand with my future bride, she had no experience with Thai food and her English was limited.  So I always ordered two different dishes,  and then let her taste both and choose.   

[BillyB]

At a moderate, yet recommended restaurant, suggest to her to order anything she wants. In fact, tell her the most expensive dish, Shrimp dipped in Dniper Sludge,  looks "delicious" and suggest she order it.   

This is good advice but should go light on the sludge. Just as we men are trying to feel a woman out on a date, the women are trying to feel us out. Going to a moderate restaurant doesn't make a guy look cheap or and it allows a guy to try to win a woman over with himself, not what he can buy her. Recommending the most tasty and expensive dish will tell a woman he cares she will have a good meal without worrying about the price. A first date should have good memories if the couple has a future together.

I usually ran into the opposite problem.  Most women who want to impress a man are coached to smile, say "Thank You" at any opportunity, and act as if they frugal, so they ordered something not expensive and said "Thank You."   Some said all they wanted was salad. 
 

I went on a date with a woman 8 times and she never ate. Just had one drink never over $5. At first I felt guilty eating in front of her and asked if she wanted another drink or something to eat. After a couple of dates, I figured that she's just taking care of her figure by limiting her intake of food.

When in Thailand with my future bride, she had no experience with Thai food and her English was limited.  So I always ordered two different dishes,  and then let her taste both and choose.
 

When on a first date, most of the time I offer to share my food before I take a bite. Many times the ladies accept since they're curious what my food tastes like. Most of the time they'll share their food and a few times even feed me with their fork which makes for a more romantic time. This technique has backfired on me before. A few times my wife stole my whole plate of food after taking a bite and gave me hers in return which is usually lighter on the calories than I prefer. Besides enjoying my food, I think she's checking on if I have any anger management issues.

[Bounder]

If you let her decide what to order you can also weed out the old diggers very easily. Or any undesireable vegans. You dont want to end up marrying a vegan. That would be horrendous.

Oh, how, Alex, you couldn't possibly be more right!!! LMAO

[Bounder]

I disagree on the golddigger comment.  If you are looking for golddigging, you are going to find it even if it doesn't exist.  Ordering the most expensive item on a menu is not necessarily an indication of golddigging.  An FSUM would not bat an eye at this.

But an FSUW either knows that a WM might commonly bat an eye at this or she doesn't.  If she does, and she orders the most expensive dish, she is most likely looking for a rich husband.  I don't think it's going to get better from there.  If she doesn't know that WM could bat an eye at this, she is new to dating WM (for whatever reason, could be quite a few different possibilities there).

However, Trenchcoat, this is very good advice: "If you are looking for golddigging, you are going to find it even if it doesn't exist."  I guarantee this will be the outcome.  The self-fulfilling prophecy deserves much more credit than it gets.  If you suspect a gold digger, she will be one.  Just use your wits and common sense; if nothing is saying gold digging, dismiss the thought outright!  The rest is love..

[Bounder]

I disagree.  I've had this discussion with different generations of FSUM, from ages (now) 20 to over 80, just to gauge if the better half's view is representative of the current generation, the older generation, and those in between.

I would describe an FSUM's attitude as, if he is taking a woman out, he has invited her and she is free to order what she wishes.  If he can't afford it, he wouldn't have asked her out.  If she orders the most expensive items on a menu, the implication usually is she is going to sleep with him.  It's a certain layer of their society, but that is well known, and that hasn't changed in two generations.

ETA - I asked the better half about this. His response was that Westerners are always looking for the worst in FSU individuals. His view is, if she orders the most expensive thing on the menu it's probably because for her, it's what appealed to her.  He also said this view of golddiggers is, generally, unheard of in FSU societies.  It's part of Western mentality, not their mentality. 

Golddiggers are unheard of in FSU societies?  Ukraine could be a verb for gold-digging.  While they may be "unheard of", I am sure they are well recognized.

Personally, I'd be looking at character traits generally.  Does she have a current FSU man in her life?  If so, why is she dating a foreigner?  That is actually more common than golddiggers (i.e., a UW ditching a UM she allegedly loves for the opportunity to marry a WM).  To each his own, but to me, this would signify that what she did to her current partner, she could eventually do to me.  How does she treat her friends?  Her parents/siblings?  Does she work?  If so, is she dependable at that job?  Is her apartment clean?  If it's important to you, does she know how to cook?  Has she offered to cook a meal for you?  Are her emotions stable or volatile (again, a personal preference).  There are hundreds of little things you can observe to determine if this is the person for you.

Boethius, this should be a sticky note.  This is very good advice.  It is something of the quality of 2TallBill's posts and many of his posts on this subject should be stickies.

[mies]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

There is a difference between being a man, and being a parent to an infant. Since you intend to marry this woman and have sex with her, you shouldn't treat her like a baby. She is an adult person, with her own food preferences, dietary restrictions, allergies, etc.

Healthy way would be to ask whether she likes anything on the menu, and whether she wants any recommendations on meals that you've tried before.

Plus, if you are in a local restaurant in FSU, she might have a much better idea than you of what to order (or not).

[msmob]

Thanks for the good advice Alex, never ceases to amaze me how even little things we do can help us in our search for a decent FSW and give us all important telling signs, top level FSW dating skills indeed

Trenchcoat ... S.C. is just about a vegan - she occasionally drinks raw eggs...


The only thing she cooks is Black Sun flower seeds.


Alex' advice works for his wife ... He clearly knows her taste now and she trusts his .. or they like to experiment

You are asking a question about a date in the FSU. How many times have you been? Do you know your Schis from Solyankas ?

There'll likely be no Chicken Tikka Masalas at an Indian Restaurant, so face it .. Unless you have lived there a long time .. you need to leave the choices to her on her turf

Discussing the menu is a great opportunity to learn more about each other and her wiliness to advise / temperament.

I learnt about FSU culinary styles by allowing the lady to advise and you can still suggest what to order when you understand the options.

 

[Trenchcoat]

There is a difference between being a man, and being a parent to an infant. Since you intend to marry this woman and have sex with her, you shouldn't treat her like a baby. She is an adult person, with her own food preferences, dietary restrictions, allergies, etc.

Healthy way would be to ask whether she likes anything on the menu, and whether she wants any recommendations on meals that you've tried before.

Plus, if you are in a local restaurant in FSU, she might have a much better idea than you of what to order (or not).

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

I still like Alex's idea the best she if she is a gold digger by ordering expensive stuff. Your idea is not bad though, I could suggest the cheaper stuff on the menu for her, see how she takes to it

Just seen your reply msmob, looks like we're both early birds. Yeah for sure she is likely to be the best when it comes to ordering, was on both my two previous occasions in the Ukraine. Just heard all this stuff about 'leading' and was wondering how far it should all be take, i.e in case the FSW hungers after an extreme alpha male that decides all for her without question

[Anotherkiwi]

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

There's a difference between "being manly" and this nonsense.

Just heard all this stuff about 'leading' and was wondering how far it should all be take, i.e in case the FSW hungers after an extreme alpha male that decides all for her without question

Yeah, right - and kills her because he picks the one thing to which she's allergic. 

[Trenchcoat]

Yeah, right - and kills her because he picks the one thing to which she's allergic. 

Yeah, it would be like 'oh sh*t back to the dating site again then'