Odessa in Feb

[LAman]

Gaspar, was your apt closer to Arkadia than centre? I only saw two buildings anywhere near centre than had as many as 18 floors. There are plenty of these buildings above beach areas. Really nice new ones near entrance of Arkadia. Lots of building in that area.

There is a Catholic Church in the centre on Katerynynska I usually pay homage to.


Shame to go at a time when few people go to beach areas, it is completely different in summer. Also, centre around Deribasivska is packed with outdoor shops and tons of people out at night.

Weird Gaspar that a week before your trip you decided that maybe you might need a jacket? Did you not look at weather reports, weren't you the least bit curious?

[Trenchcoat]

Shame to go at a time when few people go to beach areas, it is completely different in summer. Also, centre around Deribasivska is packed with outdoor shops and tons of people out at night.

Weird Gaspar that a week before your trip you decided that maybe you might need a jacket? Did you not look at weather reports, weren't you the least bit curious?

Perhaps he was expecting it to be warm

I totally agree, my impression of Odessa is that its a city best visited in the Summer and is no doubt not as much fun at a dreary time of year, aside from the company you're with of course.

[southernX]

jay H Also "but pretty much all western networks don't work out there"  -- 100% rubbish ( again) If you have the right home plan and your phone is compatible -- it WILL work !
However- the smart thing to do is buy a local sim that gives you data and calls -- the cost is minimal by western standards . 200/300 UAH which  $10 ish will cover a month -- and is super easy to top up. The cost of the sim is very small amount .

 got to agree with jay here , we have never had any issues with phone coverage , from kiev to crimea /st petes , etc or any other city country for that matter that was notable

we usually take a surplus small  cheaper phone from australia , buy a local sim card   there and put small $ on it and use it locally for taxis , family etc type calls ...works well and is easy to manage

sounds like your going along ok so far gaspar , keep it coming

SX

[gaspar227]

The apartment building was much closer to center than Arkadia.  We did go there, she wanted to show me the walk and beach, but it was really cold. 

I did know about the jacket, but I thought it would be better to get one from a local shop than one in Phoenix.  The best I would get here would be a ski jacket, and I wanted something a little more Russian looking.  Hence the fur. It was always the plan day 1 to go to 7KM.

I think I did luck out on the weather, She tells me it is well in to the negative teens now and below. 

As far as dreary time of year etc, as stated in the beginning, I was there for her and to just understand Ukraine more than I was there to go to the beach and enjoy the summer.  I figure if things stay strong with us I'll be back in the spring and probably summer.  The biggest takeaway is that it's totally doable to get a solid week with only taking 4 days off if I can get a 'freebee' like July 4th thrown in there.  Also it's not as expensive as I thought it would be and even though long, the flight was bearable. 

Since I'm not exactly dating here in the US with this going on...I save enough money that it's probably cost neutral or thereabouts even to visit every couple of months if I can just finagle the time off thing correctly. 

So day 3.  My girl is making Borsch this day.  So we slept in/lounged/etc until early afternoon.  Went to the magazine in the building (there was a full yet smallish grocery store there) and went shopping for ingredients.  While she messed around getting bags of produce, I bought a large loaf of bread, some somewhat familiar looking cheese and some sliced salami/pepperoni.  Of course the obligatory 2 liter bottle of beer and some 'backup' regular bottle for variety of taste. 

She gets to making the borsch, i get to watching and drinking.  I also tried to get my electronics figured out, tried to update her phone etc during this time.  Now...I have never eaten a beet.  I only know Borsch from pictures, but I'm game to try it.  And I must say it was pretty good!  It has a much earthier quality to it because of the beets but did manage to eat almost an entire very large bowl of it and was satisfied!  Since we were out of chicken by this time I also made some pan toast with cheese to go along with the Borsch, which I got some sideways looks about, but she liked my 'sandwich' and I liked her Borsch.  So that was a success.  A large reason I got the apartment instead of hotel was because of the kitchen and it was turning out to be a great thing.

Overall a very mellow day, we did go for a walk around town, found some late night snacks, went back to the magazine...filled up on beer for the night and basically talked/played cards  )) and had a good time until the early hours. 

As she would say now...day 4 ... repeat except it was leftovers.  We did do the obligatory McDonald's trip that night -- she says she loves McDonald's coffee, but she mostly just ate fries.  Now...I have already admitted to not being a beet fan..and that was luke-warmly received.  BUT I'm also not a fan of mayo.  This is very hard for her to believe, and I ask for my cheesburger plain with only ketchup. 

This sets off a chain reaction behind the counter, much talking, and head shaking and finally the guy goes back and smiles "no problem".  I know i'm in trouble at this point.  So we get our food finally and I ask for ketchup for the fries.  He looks at me, reaches down, grabs a packet and says.. 5 grivna!  I'm laughing at this point and hand him some monopoly money.  It was such a precious purchase that I didn't have the hear to ask for more.  So I open my burger, and it is a normal burger without! ketchup.  I only laugh because none of them could figure out why I thought I deserved a custom burger and why I didn't want mayonnaise (which she got included free for her fries).  Americans!  So needy.

Day 5 we were going to see her very good friend and his band play.  This was down by the theater at a place called Red Piano Bar.  There were 5 men on the worlds smallest stage playing Vegas style lounge hits.  The lead singer is an ex-pat from Philly who's profession was 'diplomat' or some such.  He was vague to say the least but it was a cute conversation to which I figured he's just scamming chicks and living as cheaply as possible.   To 'celebrate' my girl wanted to make sherry/diet coke mixes instead of beer.  I didn't think much of it, but we killed a small bottle before leaving. 

Overall this was my favorite place to eat in Odessa.  The prices were sky high, but the quality was outstanding for bar food.  I had a BBQ beef sandwich that actually had decent portion on it, great brownie with ice cream.  The cocktails were pricey, but strong.  Overall a great place I will go back there next time for sure.  It's right next to one of the strip clubs off the main drag -- literally just a door from the street, but well worth it.  We sat at a table with a 600 Grivna minimum, so I was trying to spend like a madman to hit the cover. 

I exceeded expectations and even though I walked away spending 1200 to the shock of my girl (including ::gasp:: a 200 tip (i mean come on $8...)), a night like that in the US would have been 3x the 50 bucks or so I dropped (I did buy a round for the band as well). 

So now I'm a little drunk, but things got a little interesting with my girl being very small and now more than a little drunk...and thinking since she is "Russian" she can hold her booze.  Decidedly she couldn't but nobody got sick, only a small amount of arguing as to which was the best way home -- she wanted to stumble around -- I wanted to get in a cab.  Needless to say I won and we ended up home safe and sound. 

I realized that also that without her...I had ZERO chance of ever finding my apartment so from that moment on I wrote the address down 'just in case'.  It's amazing how completely stranded I would have been without my phone.  My wifi tablets just were not cutting it for any sort of outside excursions.  By the end of the trip I could make it from downtown alone, but at this point, I was, for the first time, acutely aware that I was in a completely foreign country and unlike my mexico comparisons I would have no way to get around without her.  (I speak pretty good Spanish).  Not only could I not even read the street signs, I didn't know the address of my apartment!  Lesson learned.  No harm thankfully.

By now it was Saturday afternoon when we finally rolled out of bed after the only heavy drinking for us on the trip.  We were both realizing that things were winding down.  We were supposed to go see the band again that night, but neither of us was in a huge hurry.  We spent most of the day talking about plans for the future I made more toasted cheese "sandwiches" and we spent the day genuinely trying to get as much time together as we could.

We did end up going to a much less fun bar where the band was playing, just in time for the last couple of songs.  I think it was some Elvis Christmas song.  It was obvious the guys just enjoy their time, the ex-pat has a great entry to hook up with Ukrainian chicks and the rest of the band gets to practice English and play American songs.  It was actually cool to see as I have a couple of friends in a local band here in Phoenix with much the same goals! 

I spent some time talking to her friend about her and various cultural things as he speaks very good English.  For the first time she was looking at us trying to figure out what was going on like I did constantly (I have 30 words of Russian according to Duo Lingo).  We ended up 'sharing' a cab with my buddy from Philly -- which is where I found out he's a diplomat ?? somewhere along the way at a stoplight he says 'i'm rolling out here, you guys need me to pay anything?' I laugh and shake my head.  I guess that's how you do it in Ukraine!  I mean i covered the $7 cab no problem but it was comical and fun to see this guy in action.

I may have mentioned that she speaks good(ish) English -- but can understand very little spoken English when directed at a regular pace.  In other words, slowly and clearly she can get 1/3 of what I say, otherwise the going joke from her was "banana banana" from the minions movie when I would talk and for me was "potato" because she would say 'Bot Eto' all the time when describing things.  I'd be like...yes I agree we will go with the potato!  Needless to say things were getting very cute and sappy and sad as the trip wound down.  I'll wrap up next time.

 Pictures are from the kitchen view again.  The view from the street on the walk back of our apartment building -- someone asked what it looked like.  and a picture of the band playing at the red piano bar.

[LAman]

The apartment building was much closer to center than Arkadia.  We did go there, she wanted to show me the walk and beach, but it was really cold. 

 

Then you were not far from the train station? You should have passed it going to and from the centre.

Don't know if you like pizza( I do) but Olio's is excellent.

[JayH]

All sounds good ! Well done. 

There are and endless number of bars as you describe not far from you at all. It is no problem to get food( good,nice food) of any given style in Odessa . Your thoughts on cost I like -- sure beats the hell out of obsessing over spending a few bucks !

On her English -- that is not unusual -- in time she will tune in to your accent and how you speak -- I have seen that happen . You do have to think how you say anything !

 Funny you mention not knowing how to get home --it is a good idea to write it down so you can just show a taxi if you have to -- and is most use if you are trying to pin down a price.The funny thing is that if you are not paying attention when you leave and where you are going-it is easy enough to get lost !

Girls tend to like you to only tip modest amounts -- and not go overboard on it. My girl will often edit my tip !  Also --if you are paying bill with a credit card --leave tip in cash with the specific wait staff !!

Alcohol can be disproportionately expensive in restaurants --it is cheap in a bottle shop !

You are now in the coldest days of this winter.

[BillyB]

I realized that also that without her...I had ZERO chance of ever finding my apartment so from that moment on I wrote the address down 'just in case'. 

I always try to remember landmarks when walking down the street so I can get back to my apartment. I wrote down phone numbers and address of the apartment on a paper for backup in case getting lost. Of course getting lost is unlikely to happen if you have a beautiful FSU girl with you everywhere you go.

[ML]

Of course getting lost is unlikely to happen if you have a beautiful FSU girl with you everywhere you go.

Right up to the point where you make her angry.

I remember once in Kyiv, I was with a very strong willed gal.
We really had a great time, most of the time, but it was doomed because we are both strong willed.
When leaving the Opera House, she started across the street straight ahead while I (not noticing her) walked across the street to the right.
I motioned for her to come to me . . . and she motioned for me to come to her.
Neither of us would budge for several minutes . . . and I finally started to walk on.
Then she did come across to where I was, but she was not very happy about it.

In this instance, I did know the way back to my apartment, and I would have gone on whether she came or not.

[gaspar227]

So the end of the trip was fun as well.  I did end up returning home a somewhat engaged man.  The flight was very long, and I had to work the next day. 

I thought things were good, but I'm thinking maybe not so good now.  We started talking about the 1-129 again in seriousness and I'm not sure if the reality of waiting another year was too much or what, but now we are basically not talking. 

Very interesting woman, as ML said, strong willed does not begin to describe them at times -- and about things I would never consider -- Just as ML said like crossing the street a certain way.  In her case it was that she could not get over a picture I showed her day 1 with me and an ex in it.  3 months, talking nearly every day, probably 100,000 text messages,  a week in Odessa...and it came down to her not getting over a picture I sent her the first day.  At least that was her story. 

Who knows the reality of it, but it's a crazy thing -- trying to cross cultures like this.  Full of so many land mines.  Needless to say, I am much more leery now and wiser about such matters!  (Until I make the next bumble!).

Perhaps it's a bump, perhaps the end.  Regardless I had a great trip, many wonderful memories and I learned a lot about what this sort of thing really means.  In all I have only (unbelievably) spent about 3 months on this particular woman. I think I am much more equipped to find another, or perhaps to refocus at home now.  I'm undecided. 

The US immigration laws are really horrible IMO and unfair.  I live in a state that has probably 1 Million undocumented illegal people in it, yet to have 1 person come from a country that poses no imminent threat of flooding millions of people it takes a small miracle to get them over, AND you have to marry them.  Not that I am opposed to marriage, or any of that, but it's just a very difficult situation for everyone.  Perhaps my circumstances will change and I will be able to spend more time abroad.  Basically you take an extreme situation and magnify the difficulty by trying to work with the government.

I think one of the more experienced members gave me some advice about crossing rivers where you don't know where the ford is once.  I think I understand it a little better now. 

If I could have spent another 2 weeks or a month there, i'm sure things would be different.  In a week, you barely are able to get past the novelty and into a more reality of life.  In the end, I probably would have just figured out it was not right there instead of here.  There certainly were enough red flags along the way, but I'm pretty much an eternal optimist though, so I keep pressing headlong!

Anyway, the highs and lows of love I guess.  I'll give it a break, think things through, an maybe will return to Odessa or Kiev or Kharkov or Irkutsk or somewhere else in the early summer with a new outlook!

[Boethius]

So are you saying that this one issue - photo of an ex - is a big issue?  To you because of her reaction, or to her?  How old is she? (It could be a factor in that reaction).  Or are there other things that make you believe she is not the one?

[BillyB]

In her case it was that she could not get over a picture I showed her day 1 with me and an ex in it.  3 months, talking nearly every day, probably 100,000 text messages,  a week in Odessa...and it came down to her not getting over a picture I sent her the first day.  At least that was her story. 

That was a BIG mistake. No matter how many times women on dates asked me about past women, I don't talk about past women. I tell them I'm on a date with them, don't talk about the past and want to focus on the present.


The fact you brought your ex with you on the trip and showed it to her on day one is way worse than talking about past women. Many women over there see things as "signs" and when they see a sign, it may tell them to stop or proceed. I had one RW never date me again simply because my birth date/horoscope wasn't the right one for her.

[gaspar227]

She's 30 next month.

No, i'm talking day one that I met her on the website like 3 months ago.  She was talking about some guy, then something else, I mean we were just chatting about life etc.  I had no idea I was walking into a bear trap.  She asked me about my ex, i showed her a picture.  (I would NEVER bring that bitch with me on a trip!  OMG. and I don't really like talking about her  That's the rub.  I hate her.)  I only showed her because she asked about her and instead of just saying...whatever, i showed her a picture.   
 
She's basically saying that since I showed her that picture, and she said "do you think she's pretty" and I said sure, she' pretty.  That now she says I still love her, that I'm weird because I should only say she is pretty  .. etc.  Regardless I understand what you all mean about this stuff a little more -- like she said if she came here we'd have to throw away the bed...I think I read about that in the 'you know your dating an FSU woman when..."

The world needs to revolve around them, and if you flatter and lie a little it helps.  I mean come on, my ex was hot.  On par with this chick, or even better for most guys -- she was in playboy for goodness sake.  But I only brought her into this because I was asked...and no matter how I tried to deflect, I was put into a position of either lying and saying this obviously NOT ugly chick was ugly or telling the truth.   

We're talking about world class hounding here, she would say 'please, just tell me truya, I promise I won't get angry" and I fell for it.  Anyway, it's probably just an excuse as I said earlier, she has other reasons for breaking it off with me, and just wants to make me feel bad.  I don't know.  It's all moot if she's going to stay mad at me, and it seems like she is at this point so whether it's that or something else, I'm back looking again. 

In retrospect my ex IS ugly to me in that I would never go out with her again, and it's in this that I think she was driving at.  That I need to recognize that she's not someone I would ever date, and simplest way to say that is that she's Ugly.  I tried to explain this all, but it was pointless.  My moment of discovery does not undo the damage done, and I'm honest here, my girl was not the sharpest pencil in the box. 

She's sweet, but she's not one of those FSU rocket scientist women who now does nails because the money is better.  She's told me many times that her and her friends are stupid, the big difference is that she knows she's stupid and they don't.  I mean I of course told her that was not true, but in the end if you can't see that there are cultural differences and the knife should cut both ways as far as accommodating these in my opinion.  This is a hard road even under the best circumstances.

Obviously I gave her a ring, I went to see here in winter, I bought her flowers on valentines, I did everything I could to reassure her, so if some misunderstanding over what I meant when I said my ex was pretty is going to be the end of it, either it's a convenient excuse, or there was little chance it would work long term anyway.  Better now than when she's here.   

I mean I could go on, the red flags were everywhere, but the fact of the matter is I love crazy women, and usually I'm pretty good at corralling them for at least a time.  This is remarkably harder from 10,000 km away, however and it's very difficult to smooth talk things over when every other word in response is 'chto?'

[Boethius]

She's 30 next month.

Old enough to have the maturity to not make this an issue.

The world needs to revolve around them, and if you flatter and lie a little it helps.  I mean come on, my ex was hot.  On par with this chick, or even better for most guys -- she was in playboy for goodness sake.  But I only brought her into this because I was asked...and no matter how I tried to deflect, I was put into a position of either lying and saying this obviously NOT ugly chick was ugly or telling the truth.   

That is not true.  It just shows that the woman you chose is single for a reason. 

[gaspar227]

Old enough to have the maturity to not make this an issue.
That is not true.  It just shows that the woman you chose is single for a reason.

Agreed.  Very pessimistic and generalizing of me.  I was only extrapolating from the somewhat tongue and cheek 'you know you are dating an FSU woman thing as well'

[BillyB]

I had no idea I was walking into a bear trap....

We're talking about world class hounding here, she would say 'please, just tell me truya, I promise I won't get angry" and I fell for it. 

Other guys have experienced the same. No matter how many times they ask about women in the past, don't give in. Some of these women are good at getting into guy's heads and trying to figure them out. Doesn't mean they got them figured out right though. Don't be a nice guy and give them full disclosure on some things. It'll backfire.


Also about throwing away the bed. Other men have experienced the same. Their women made them throw out the bed or any other item that reminds you and/or them of women from the past. My wife didn't make me throw out the bed. She feels a man taking care of his needs sleeping with women isn't a bad thing.

[JayH]

I mean I could go on, the red flags were everywhere, but the fact of the matter is I love crazy women, and usually I'm pretty good at corralling them for at least a time.  This is remarkably harder from 10,000 km away, however and it's very difficult to smooth talk things over when every other word in response is 'chto?'

If you are using crazy as in zany - yeah-I can understand that --but crazy --mmmm.
I can tell numerous incidents about photos . EG -- I had kept a photo because it showed my beach -- 150 metres away  the then 4 yo son of my good friends was playing in the water -- my girl spotted this and lost interest in everything else but"who is this child" -- "why have you kept photo" etc Nothing worse than seeing your credibility evaporating in the cross examination !!

More recently -- in updating computers and a new phone -- the system picked up photos I had long ago forgotten about -- 1000's of them ! At the time --I had not even looked at them for years -and did not realise they were visible on new phone .My girl picked up phone and started looking at photos ! I am still being chided over it 18 months later !

Going back a long time -- when my Ukrainian ex asked to see photos of my Aus ex --I said I did not know if I had any . Eventually - when not looking-I found old hard copy and scanned to computer. Some time later -- when talking about various things -I said I have photos . After looking very closely at each photo -- she commented that she was very pretty -- then--"you said you did not have any photos ' !!That was about 2 years after me saying I did not have !!

Same girl -- when future was being considered in Australia -in the course of discussion -it came up that my recent Aus ex did  work and live not  very far from me at all !!  Note -that relationship was 200% finished over  -- but after some time and all the details finalised  -out of necessity we still talked and then and now have a good relationship- as friends -nothing more. My Ukrainian girl hit the roof when she found this out -- and I mean exploded ! It took a long time to settle all that down .

It takes time to develop trust -- and things that you or I may consider nothing -- can be taken extremely seriously - and threaten the potential relationship !

So-- you ain't alone !!

[ML]

Obviously I gave her a ring,

Are you talking about a phone call or a ring on the finger?

If the latter . . . then OMG!!

[kynrazor]

Are you talking about a phone call or a ring on the finger?

If the latter . . . then OMG!!

If it’s the latter, another One Week Wonder?

[Boethius]

IMHO, there is nothing wrong in being a one week wonder. However, you have to be absolutely certain in your soul that this is the right thing.

[JayH]

If it’s the latter, another One Week Wonder?

On reading again --it may be that she saw enough  -- and did not see that as her future .
The explanation -- a convenience.

Regardless -- only theory at this stage/

As for one week --I have said many times that it is no where near enough time together to make long term decisions.

[Boethius]

There are no hard and fast rules in matters of the heart.  I say this as a so called “OWW”. I believe if you follow your intuition, things work out. That said, if his posts are an indication, gaspar’s intuition does not appear to be giving him a rosy message.

[I/O]

Gasper - Haven't read in detail but the "ex" thing is a ruse IMO. There's more - if you proceed, do so with extreme caution..

[gaspar227]

Hi all.  Yes I have considered all written here and much more in the last week.  As with many things that are 'rushed' by desires etc it's tough to pick a point in time and say definitively this minute is representative of the whole.  Writing it down and having people comment on it can help, and really it has helped me! 

But I have kept to myself and worked with my girl a lot on what is really going on.   Most of what I wrote was written in a low point, I'm trying not to write from an emotional place so I gave myself time to gather.

I did give her a physical ring, and it's still on her finger and things are much more settled.  I see much of what has gone on as a control struggle which I'm so used to being normal in a relationship, but which I think has caused her much confusion.  Her best friend (a guy), who speaks English explained it to me during one of the small discussions we had, and I did not understand the implications until more reflection.  I'm so used to having to acquiesce for harmony reasons that I was causing disharmony I think.   He said, if I make her the boss, we will always have problems.  I am the man, I must be the boss.  Now…to a reasonable extent I'm happy for this to be the case. 

She expects me to control things.  She wants me to run with it.  I'm light-hearted and many times thinking this a sign of good will have said things like "you're the boss" or when talking to someone deferred to her and said "whatever she wants". I would get funny looks, but I didn't understand as much. 

Since my posting I took his advice a little more to heart and have stood my ground on important things and basically cut her off from communication with me when she pushed too hard down these catch 22 rabbit holes.  She understands now and  respects me, while at the same time I respect her.  If taken in perspective her requests are pretty reasonable, even if I don't understand them -- and things are much better. 

I agree, everything is rushed, but I don't particularly feel like waiting until everything is perfect and then moving this forward.  I want to work on the relationship, and the documentation at the same time.  With the final 90 days being a make or break.  I am confident that she has all of the qualities I'm looking for, and yes even the immaturity is appealing (for her and me because I'm not exactly a grown up in many ways).  I mean we're still talking at least a year from now. 

We'll see.  This hand exemplifies what I'm talking about (picture).  About a month into knowing me, she had a 'surprise'.  That is my name and it's not in pen.  I also put a surprise on the hand (don't worry guys it's Moissanite, not a $10K rock, but she loves it anyway).  It will make for good visa picture!  So she's impulsive and unabashed and is just exactly who she is.  Which I love. If that means dealing with the some ups and downs, for me that's good.

Time will tell.  I'm trying my best to go back to Odessa in April -- and we tentatively have a trip booked to Germany in May with my parents during which time they will meet her.  So I'm going to file the I-129F soon.  I still have to get together some of the documents, but most of it's complete.  I'm going to get as much face time with her in the meantime and we will work on things as we go! 

I look at things from a baseline of 50/50 on a marriage anyway.  What are the odds?  Not good, but then again they are never good.  Maybe something different here will help.  Hopefully ya'll wish us luck I know we'll need it. 

[alex330]

Odesa is beautiful in April. Lots of happiness and luck to the both of you.

[I/O]

I'm trying my best to go back to Odessa in April

Nodding...