More Bad News for Russia

[Brasscasing]

Keyword "Russia Delivers Last of U.S.-bought Helicopters to Afghan Military" and you will see that Obama didn't cancel the contract with Russia although Russia supported the Assad regime. We've also been buying all types of arms and military vehicles from Russia with our tax dollars. The last helicopters were delivered 2 months ago well after our sanctions against Russia started. Not only did we buy equipment, but we will be buying parts from Russia for their upkeep. I think we all know the reason Obama overpaid for that equipment. It's to get money into somebody's(Putin's) hands


It's no secret Obama hit the "reset" button with Russia. He did not agree with Republicans that Russia is a geopolitical foe. The Obama administration has made many friendly deals using American taxpayer money that goes into Russia's pocket. While Obama pressured France not to sell ships to Russia, we continue to buy Russian military hardware. Obama could've cancelled or suspend our remaining contract with the Russians the same way he's telling France to do.


http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/11/03/russia-delivers-last-of-u-s-bought-helicopters-to-afghan-military/


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-delivers-last-military-transport-helicopters-to-afghan-security-forces/510390.html


http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-delivers-last-us-bought-helicopters-afghan-military-ukraine-conflict-1718469



I'm pretty sure Russia is supplying much more equipment for their men in the field than the West is supplying Ukraine. Obama made a small step. I wouldn't call it significant.

Which were bought in 2011 as your own articles reports. Read your own links for crying out loud, Billy.

Yes, the contract was cancelled...

Pentagon cancels plans to buy Russian helicopters

..."(Reuters) - The Pentagon no longer will buy Russian helicopters for the Afghan Air Force from Rosoboronexport, a state-owned arms exporter that also sells weapons to the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, U.S. defense officials and a leading Senate opponent of such deals said on Wednesday."...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/us-usa-russia-helicopters-idUSBRE9AC17720131113

U.S. To Stop Buying Russian Helicopters For Afghanistan

..."The United States will not buy any more helicopters from a Russian exporter that also supplies weapons to the Syrian government.

 The Defense Department was set to purchase 15 Mi-17s for $345 million from Rosoboronexport and then deliver them to Afghanistan's national security forces.

 But on November 13, the Defense Department said it was cancelling those plans, although it did not offer a reason."...

http://www.rferl.org/content/afghanistan-mi-17-helicopters/25167681.html

No, the U.S. hasn't been buying all sorts of Russian military equipment since the Ukraine crisis or sanctions started.

Of course the Russians are supplying the terrorists. They also have Russian regulars in Ukraine with their equipment supplying terrorists. The point of my narrative being the fact that the U.S. is in Ukraine and has opened the door is what's significant.

I have no idea where your getting the rest of your narrative above from, it's completely unsubstantiated.

Brass

[Boethius]

Well said.  That is one of the reasons I start laughing when guys here start tell others how they know what is really happening and the others that don't agree are simply ignorant because of propaganda.


America, the land of the free, where if you don't tell the government about any foreign accounts can land you with fines and possibly jail time.  Now you have to sign up for health care or pay more fines.  Where there are so many laws on the books you can be fined or jailed every time you walk out of the house.  Laws being snuck in through other legislation.


and the best, Democracy is the best for everyone simply because you can buy cheap stuff.

None of which negates the fact that Russia has sent troops and supplies to so called "rebels" in Ukraine and has started a war in a neighbouring country for its own internal purposes.  The US did not do this, no matter how much naysayers here wish it to be so.

[Muzh]

People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it. A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).


Zbignew Brzhinski (sp), Carters security advisor, spelled out very clearly in his book "The Grand Chess Game" that Eastern Europe was the front in the Wests fight against Russia and that Ukraine would be the ultimate prize. So after numerous color revolutions (inspired by the West) how can anyone be suprised that Moscow is finally putting its foot down and saying no more.

Are you serious?


Brainwashed people? You mean, you don't have faith in your fellow American so you put your trust in the Russians?


Is that what you are saying?


Please by all means explain.

[LiveFromUkraine]

None of which negates the fact that Russia has sent troops and supplies to so called "rebels" in Ukraine and has started a war in a neighbouring country for its own internal purposes.  The US did not do this, no matter how much naysayers here wish it to be so.

Did I say it did?   I just laugh at the people who are pro Merica and condemn Russia when Merica has been doing similar tactics in  other countries for a long time. 

[Boethius]

But no matter what America does, it does not excuse Russia from starting and prolonging a war in a sovereign, democratic nation.

[LiveFromUkraine]

But no matter what America does, it does not excuse Russia from starting and prolonging a war.

Ah, but that is the problem.  People turning a blind eye when it doesn't personally affect them.  It should matter whenever another country interferes.

[Boethius]

Ah, but that is the problem.  People turning a blind eye when it doesn't personally affect them.  It should matter whenever another country interferes.

Of course it should matter.  However, it is not relevant to what is occurring in Ukraine.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Of course it should matter.  However, it is not relevant to what is occurring in Ukraine.

Bo, I responded to Streamer's post and in that context. 

[Boethius]

Then let's go back to his post.

People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks
that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to
do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so
Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it.

I will agree with this.

A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval
will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).

I disagree with this.  The US does not interfere in all cases.  I did not approve of NATO's actions in Kosovo, but it was not merely an internal threat, and Bosnia, certainly, was not an internal threat to Belgrade.

Zbignew Brzhinski (sp), Carters security advisor, spelled out very clearly in
his book "The Grand Chess Game" that Eastern Europe was the front in the Wests
fight against Russia and that Ukraine would be the ultimate prize.

This is assuming Brzezinski's thesis was accepted by Washington.  I disagree with that assumption.  Had the US accepted Brzezinski's thesis, it would have been far more "hands on" in Ukraine, and there would be no war there now.

So after numerous color revolutions (inspired by the West) how can anyone be
suprised that Moscow is finally putting its foot down and saying no more.

Again, it is a stretch to assume that the Orange Revolution was "inspired" by the West.  It was inspired by the desire of Ukraine to be democratic and free of corruption.  I will ask again, if you look at history, would you rather be aligned with the West, or with Russia?

[Brasscasing]

People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it. A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).


Zbignew Brzhinski (sp), Carters security advisor, spelled out very clearly in his book "The Grand Chess Game" that Eastern Europe was the front in the Wests fight against Russia and that Ukraine would be the ultimate prize. So after numerous color revolutions (inspired by the West) how can anyone be suprised that Moscow is finally putting its foot down and saying no more.

You've somehow managed to totally miss the point.

If the Russian people want to prostrate themselves and live under a totalitarian regime well that's what they've got.

However, when said regime starts invading other countries to subjugate them when they're striving to become better democracies and frustrating their efforts to align with liked minded countries because they don't think that nation should have sovereignty or create it's own path?  That's when problems arise as we're currently seeing.

Brass

[AC]

Again, it is a stretch to assume that the Orange Revolution was "inspired" by the West.  It was inspired by the desire of Ukraine to be democratic and free of corruption.  I will ask again, if you look at history, would you rather be aligned with the West, or with Russia?

It all boils down to Ukrainians wanting to self determine their future.  Russia has no right to interfere but it is not stopping them.

If the Ukrainians did not want to stand up for their country they would not be doing so, but they are.

Those who believe conspiracty theories or those who want to believe Russian propaganda cannot be helped.

[jone]

Well said.  That is one of the reasons I start laughing when guys here start tell others how they know what is really happening and the others that don't agree are simply ignorant because of propaganda.


America, the land of the free, where if you don't tell the government about any foreign accounts can land you with fines and possibly jail time.  Now you have to sign up for health care or pay more fines.  Where there are so many laws on the books you can be fined or jailed every time you walk out of the house.  Laws being snuck in through other legislation.


and the best, Democracy is the best because you can buy cheap stuff which means a better life.

You're welcome to give up your citizenship anytime.  I'm sure that not too many people will cry without your participation in the democratic process.

[lordtiberius]

1. Ukraine must recognize the separatists
2. Keep funding their regions
3. Ukraine have  to agree to Russian peacekeepers and military hardware

I think we can get Muzh's President to agree to those terms.  He will lean on Poroshenko and continue to promise him nonlethal non-aid.  His constituents like jone will agree as no one wins a nuclear war. 

[Boethius]

You're welcome to give up your citizenship anytime.  I'm sure that not too many people will cry without your participation in the democratic process.

Is it not his right, as an American citizen, to criticize his government in any way he sees fit?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Then let's go back to his post.I will agree with this.I disagree with this. 

I obviously do as well.

The US does not interfere in all cases.  I did not approve of NATO's actions in Kosovo, but it was not merely an internal threat, and Bosnia, certainly, was not an internal threat to Belgrade.

I agree, I don't think the US interferes in all case. 

This is assuming Brzezinski's thesis was accepted by Washington.  I disagree with that assumption.  Had the US accepted Brzezinski's thesis, it would have been far more "hands on" in Ukraine, and there would be no war there now.Again, it is a stretch to assume that the Orange Revolution was "inspired" by the West.  It was inspired by the desire of Ukraine to be democratic and free of corruption.  I will ask again, if you look at history, would you rather be aligned with the West, or with Russia?

Ok, let's look at history...  It has been shown what the US was capable of doing in order to bring down Russia.   See the Afghan war where they purposely tried to draw Russia into a war.  If that is the case, and it was, there isn't a huge leap to believe they would have done more and still is. 

Russia is a threat to the US. 

To think the US won't go to great measures to make Russia weak is simply turning a blind eye.  Whether they had their "hands in" Maiden and/or the Orange revolution, I don't think it is a stretch to believe so.  Most think it is just a coincidence listening to Nuland pick out the next President but I highly doubt she was just play "what ifs".  As for how much influence, that is a tough one to understand and we probably will never know. 

I just hope Ukraine comes out of this and changes for the better.  Doubtful, unfortunately.

Edited to add:

I forgot the West versus Russia.  I was born here, in the west, so I would naturally be more comfortable here.  I can see a person like Doll being more happy where she understands.

[AC]

You're welcome to give up your citizenship anytime.  I'm sure that not too many people will cry without your participation in the democratic process.

 

[LiveFromUkraine]

You're welcome to give up your citizenship anytime.  I'm sure that not too many people will cry without your participation in the democratic process.

Typical response from people who are sheep.  Question their whole belief system and they tell you go away.

[Boethius]

You've somehow managed to totally miss the point.

If the Russian people want to prostrate themselves and live under a totalitarian regime well that's what they've got.

However, when said regime starts invading other countries to subjugate them when they're striving to become better democracies and frustrating their efforts to align with liked minded countries because they don't think that nation should have sovereignty or create it's own path?  That's when problems arise as we're currently seeing.

Brass

Agree 100% with Brass' post.

[AC]

Is it not his right, as an American citizen, to criticize his government in any way he sees fit?

That's not the point at all.  All of his posts imply that there must be some better country out there, as America is so horrible.  He should move there post haste.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Is it not his right, as an American citizen, to criticize his government in any way he sees fit?

Jones made my point.  I am suppose to placate to everyone with things I love about America, which happens to be plenty, but the minute I criticize you will see responses exactly like Jones. 


Propoganda at it's finest. 

[lordtiberius]

Mendy, do you think there have already been back channel threats from Putler to Poroshenko along the lines of "Join my little club or else..."

Surely Putler must realise that any Ukrainian president that even publicly contemplates joining that organisation will get lynched by his own population.

FT, why can't Ukraine be both in the Eurasian Customs Union and the EU?

[jone]

Typical response from people who are sheep.  Question their whole belief system and they tell you go away.

If you say that my belief system is threatened by your musings, well, I say 'Nahhhhhhhhh, Nahhhhhhhh.'

 

[lordtiberius]

Is it not his right, as an American citizen, to criticize his government in any way he sees fit?

Its his/her duty.

[Boethius]

Ok, let's look at history...  It has been shown what the US was capable of doing in order to bring down Russian.   See the Afghan war where they purposely tried to draw Russia into a war.  If that is the case, and it was, there isn't a huge leap to
believe they would have done more and still is. 

Bringing down the USSR was a good thing.  However, the US did not draw the USSR into war in Afghanistan.  That was all Brezhnev and the Politburo.  Even the GRU did not want the Soviets in that war.

Russia is a threat to the US. 

I disagree. 

To think the US won't go to great measures to make Russia weak is simply turning a blind eye.  Whether they
had their "hands in" Maiden and/or the Orange revolution, I don't think it is a stretch to believe so.  Most think it is just a coincidence listening to Nuland pick out the next President but I highly doubt she was just play "what ifs".  As for how much influence, that is a tough one to understand and we probably will never know. 

Porosenko may have been the US's first choice, but he was democratically elected, in all regions of Ukraine.  Even if the US had influence by, say, helping him with his campaign, at the end of the day, he was chosen president by the Ukrainian people.  And, he is the first president to be elected by a majority in all regions of the country.

[Boethius]

That's not the point at all.  All of his posts imply that there must be some better country out there, as America is so horrible.  He should move there post haste.

I don't see that in his posts at all.