More Bad News for Russia

[LiveFromUkraine]

From what I've gathered it was pretty clear that Yano was in real danger for his life when most of his security were gone.  He probably had to flee or he might have been beaten or killed.  That part of the whole saga seems clear.


Fathertime!   

I'm sure all that security around Obama isn't needed either. haha

[Boethius]

The US is a far more violent society than is Ukraine, LFU.
 
Please name one Ukrainian politician killed by Euromaidan protesters, fathertime.  Because that is the test.
 

[fathertime]

The US is a far more violent society than is Ukraine, LFU.
 
Please name one Ukrainian politician killed by Euromaidan protesters, fathertime.  Because that is the test.

I don't agree that his life wasn't in danger when his security suddenly left him...if he didn't face danger why did he have any security at all?


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

All world leaders have security.  That does not mean their lives are always in danger.

[LiveFromUkraine]

All world leaders have security.  That does not mean their lives are always in danger.

No, Yanukovych had his withdrawn.  Whether or not you think he was in danger doesn't matter.   I can't imagine any President staying put without security.  Especially with those peaceful Ukrainians throwing around Molotov cocktails and trying to gain access to firearms.

[fathertime]

All world leaders have security.  That does not mean their lives are always in danger.

Not ALWAYS in danger...but at that moment in time...yeah he was in danger, and his security suddenly vanished...


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

No, LFU, it does matter.  Because the statement made is his life was in danger, and as a result, he was forced to flee.  That is not, I believe, accurate.
 
BTW, here is another view-

They also found scores of documents detailing exactly how the Yanukovych presidency had operated: receipts for cash bribes, files on opposition journalists, and records of the president's private meetings. It seemed clear that Yanukovych left in a hurry: He made a botched attempt to destroy his files by throwing them into a nearby lake. Some of the materials were still floating at the surface; more of them were quickly uncovered by
volunteer divers. But security camera footage examined by the Kyiv Post shows that Yanukovych's exit was actually planned days in advance. "He even oversaw the operation himself in the hours ahead of his final departure late on Feb. 21," the Post writes. "Some videos show what appears to be a small arsenal of weapons being carried away, including at least three apparent automatic rifles fixed with scopes and more than two dozen other rifles, some in a glass case."

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116986/what-ousted-ukrainian-president-tried-hide-he-fled

[LiveFromUkraine]

No, LFU, it does matter.  Because the statement made is his life was in danger, and as a result, he was forced to flee.  That is not, I believe, accurate.
 
BTW, here is another view-
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116986/what-ousted-ukrainian-president-tried-hide-he-fled

Nope, it doesn't matter if you believe he was in danger or not.  The fact that a President has his protection withdrawn should in itself be an alarm going off that something is not right.  Why you think it is ok for that to happen is beyond me.


He should have a planned exit!  I can't imagine any President not having planned exit strategies for when the crap hits the fan.  haha


Of course he left in a hurry.  I would have as well.  If he didn't think he was in danger he could have destroyed that evidence.  After all, everyone wasn't interested in killing him so he could have just sit tight and clean up some of that evidence that could be used against him later.

[Boethius]

I also suggest you read the yankovych leaks site, which had access to all Yanukovych's personal documents (those he left behind during his hasty departure).  According to that, he had security when he fled to Russia.
 
http://yanukovychleaks.org/

[Boethius]

Nope, it doesn't matter if you believe he was in danger or not.  The fact that a President has his protection withdrawn should in itself be an alarm going off that something is not right.  Why you think it is ok for that to happen is beyond me.


He should have a planned exit!  I can't imagine any President not having planned exit strategies for when the crap hits the fan.  haha


Of course he left in a hurry.  I would have as well.  If he didn't think he was in danger he could have destroyed that evidence.  After all, everyone wasn't interested in killing him so why not site tight and clean up some of that evidence that could be used against him later?


Another note, you would think that if his life wasn't in jeopardy he would have stayed awhile and cleaned up all of that evidence.  He may not have been able to delete it all but he could have removed a sizeable portion.

But he didn't have his protection withdrawn.  Some in his entourage fled, so they were no longer around.  Some followed him, so he did, in fact, have security.

[LiveFromUkraine]

But he didn't have his protection withdrawn.  Some in his entourage fled, so they were no longer around.  Some followed him, so he did, in fact, have security.

I will try to read that link later, Bo.  It isn't loading for me right now.


According to the article I posted they were withdrawn.

With the presidential administration building and also his home unguarded from the afternoon of Friday, Feb. 21, Mr. Yanukovych judged that it was time for him, too, to leave Kiev, at least for a few days, his associates said.[

“When they removed the guards around the presidential administration, he had to leave,” said Mr. Dobkin, who was serving at the time as governor of Kharkiv, an industrial eastern region in whose capital, Kharkiv, Mr. Yanukovych had decided to seek refuge on Friday evening.

What exactly do you mean by security?  His group of thugs or entourage?

If what you say is true, he could have stayed put and trashed the rest of his evidence.  Instead he took off with a lazy attempt of removing the evidence.  He obviously thought he was in danger.  It only makes sense.

[Boethius]

Yes, he had his own private security, and those people were with him, and even went to Russia when he did.  So no, I do not believe his life was ever in danger.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes, he had his own private security, and those people were with him, and even went to Russia when he did.  So no, I do not believe his life was ever in danger.

Do you know how many people were in the entourage that protected him?  I'm trying to understand what you think is adequate protection for a President.  I have a feeling it isn't the same as what I think or what most would think if that President was Obama.

[jone]

I was very happy that they didn't find PUMPS in his closet, like they did with Imelda Marcos. 

[Boethius]

Do you know how many people were in the entourage that protected him?  I'm trying to understand what you think is adequate protection for a President.  I have a feeling it isn't the same as what I think or what most would think if that President was Obama.

At least a dozen members fled with him, which I would imagine for any president (including Obama) would be adequate.
 
He left because he was facing impeachment, not because he believed his life was in danger.  I wonder if his mistress went with him?

[jone]

No, Bo,

She's living here in my guest room.  I'd be happy to unload her on any unsuspecting  MOB seeker. 

 

[fathertime]

At least a dozen members fled with him, which I would imagine for any president (including Obama) would be adequate.
[/quote


Perhaps you are joking, a dozen members is nothing...especially under the circumstances of angry mobs and the rest of the security leaving....

He left because he was facing impeachment, not because he believed his life was in danger.  I wonder if his mistress went with him?

This is not factual, this is opinion and who cares about his mistress, unless you are counting her as one of the security team?


Fathertime!

[Boethius]

No, it is factual.  It is your opinion, nothing more.
 
1.  He had other security.  Lots of it.
2.  No politician, many of whom were just as in the thick of it as Yanukovych, was killed because of Maidan.  In fact Maidan activists made it clear that they wanted trials and a rule of law, not mob rule.
3.  Having a mistress, particularly one who is younger than his children, says something about Yanukovych's character.  I am free to ask any questions I wish.  Whether you like them or not.
 
 

[LiveFromUkraine]

At least a dozen members fled with him, which I would imagine for any president (including Obama) would be adequate.
 
He left because he was facing impeachment, not because he believed his life was in danger.  I wonder if his mistress went with him?

I have to disagree.  I don't think that would be close to enough to protect him at his domicile.  I wouldn't expect the entourage to be trained like the secret service is.  Maybe they are, but doubtful. 

I couldn't imagine only 12 people protecting the President.  We're talking 20 to 30 vehicles being used when Obama is on vacation.

I am sure he would have ran from impeachment.  I also think he had time before that would have happened.  Like I said, he could have burned a lot of evidence before he left if he didn't think he was in danger.  He was being blamed for sniper killings on top of being the most hated man in Ukraine.  I seriously don't know how anyone would think he wasn't in danger.


haha I think Yanukovych is a save himself first and then think about mistress later type of guy.

[Boethius]

haha I think Yanukovych is a save himself first, and then think about mistress
later type of guy.

On this we agree.

[fathertime]

No, it is factual.  It is your opinion, nothing more.
 

No, it isn't factual, it is your opinion...nothing more!

3.  Having a mistress, particularly one who is younger than his children, says something about Yanukovych's character.  I am free to ask any questions I wish.  Whether you like them or not.
 
 

Why would I 'dislike' like your "questions" about his mistress...I don't care...except it looks like a silly attempt to further smear and distract... Yes you are free to ask questions about his mistress...and I'm free to say, who cares? Now lets see a nice photo of the lady! 


Fathertime! 

[The Natural]

How on Earth should he fear impeachment by a gang of revolutionaries in an illegal coup? Probably because he knew this gang and their confused followers were the result of a US funded and planned regime change operation and that formal rules would probably not be followed. We all know of the 5 US billion spent, the leaked phone conversations between Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador in Kiev. But on here, the truth is of no value. Lies are however the gold standard. Opposition value only lies in perhaps somebody being pushed to investigate more than just the western propaganda machine. It's not difficult to understand why the west is trying sooooo hard to shut down Russia Today. Real folks have a tendency to eventually gravitate towards truths when they Discover the daily dose of propaganda doesn't add up.

[Boethius]

FT, I am free to have an opinion, as are you.  There is nothing which indicates your opinion is any more accurate than is mine.

[fathertime]

I couldn't imagine only 12 people protecting the President.  We're talking 20 to 30 vehicles being used when Obama is on vacation.

 

If there were angry mobs near Obama there would probably 1000 security members setting up layers of perimeters.  I don't know how on earth Boethius can think 12 members could adequately protect....it is a ridiculous but interesting assertion.  His security vanishing had to be very troubling in and of itself...where did they go and why did they leave me NOW?  He had legit concerns at that point. 


Fathertime!     

[Boethius]

How on Earth should he fear impeachment by a gang of revolutionaries in an illegal coup?

I will agree that the method of Yanukovych's removal was a coup.  However, even those in his own party voted for his impeachment, so I don't think you can sway it was illegal.

Probably because he knew this gang and their confused followers were the result
of a US funded and planned regime change operation and that formal rules would
probably not be followed. We all know of the 5 US billion spent

$5 billion over two decades, most of which went to fund think tanks, universities, and the creation of democratic institutions.  As much as US haters want to believe the US was behind Euromaidan, there is no proof they were, and, frankly, I doubt it quite highly.  If the US wanted a change on government in Ukraine, they would have done it at the Rada level, not at the presidential level.  There is proof of meetings between Yankovych and Putin about stopping the Euromaidan protests.  Why would Putin care???

the leaked phone conversations between Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador
in Kiev.

Which occurred when a new government was being formed.  It does not prove your allegation and frankly, Ukraine is not that important to the U.S.

But on here, the truth is of no value. Lies are however the gold standard.

So you know the whole truth?  Because from where I sit, what you post is grossly inaccurate.  I don't tend to believe in conspiracy theories.

Opposition value only lies in perhaps somebody being pushed to investigate more than just the western propaganda machine. It's not difficult to understand why the west is trying sooooo hard to shut down Russia Today. Real folks have a tendency to eventually gravitate towards truths when they Discover the daily dose of propaganda doesn't add up.

If you believe half of what RT posts, you are already lost.