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Author Topic: More Bad News for Russia  (Read 1075497 times)

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Offline AkMike

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« Reply #1075 on: December 18, 2014, 06:26:21 AM »
Russia IS free
Sure as long as you adhere to the party line and dare note question the government. Lord help you if you dare to have your own opinion.

Offline ghost of moon goddess

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« Reply #1076 on: December 18, 2014, 08:11:32 AM »

Sasha (Aleksandr) Sotnik conducted a very interesting piece last week, asking on-the-street Russians about the economic crisis and more importantly, who is to blame. The central theme is of a "western aggressor" and that mirrors the 1940s-1950s phrase of "Nazi aggressor." This was not a scientific poll, but it models existing polling that indicates that most Russians still support the Putin government and are ready to sacrifice for the cause of repelling the West.


Mendy, the 'survey' conducted by Sasha shows a generational split on the current situation in Russia.
The question Sasha asked was: who do you think will win the Cold War?
While young Russians were unequivocal in their answers, saying Russia will win, answers given by older respondents reflect the fact that older Russians take different views of the economic crisis. So the whole thing isn't quite hopeless  ;)
If you want to keep your expressions convergent, never allow them a single degree of freedom.

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1077 on: December 18, 2014, 08:25:52 AM »
Sure as long as you adhere to the party line and dare note question the government. Lord help you if you dare to have your own opinion.
Russia has always been free, will always be

Offline jone

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« Reply #1078 on: December 18, 2014, 08:48:46 AM »
I watched part of Putin's presser this morning.  Quite interesting.  In a way, I was spellbound.  He was entirely believable.  His dour way of expressing himself and straightforward manor leave me to believe his speech plays very well with the masses. 

Ultimately he addressed no problems and blamed everything on the 'other guy' although he didn't often say who the 'other guy' was.  He stated, more than once, that there would be a budget surplus.  (Well, that is easy to do when you are manipulating the spending.)

Here's what he didn't say:  How he is going to finance his new war machine that he has been boasting about and flourishing

Here's what he did say:  The United States has bases through out the world, why shouldn't we?  I found that to be a blanket 'throwing down of the gauntlet'. 

Sometimes we give the Russian population too much credit.  If Obama had given the same speech after the dollar tanked the day before, the populous would be all over him and he'd be run out of town.  Even by his own party.  Absent any serious dissent through an opposition party, with equal air time, it is unreasonable to think that the Russian people would be able to discern the true state of affairs.  Even, as we have seen, when some Russians are exposed to the truth here in America - they still can't get the noodles out of their ears.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline calmissile

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« Reply #1079 on: December 18, 2014, 09:00:16 AM »
I  have to agree with your assessment of his speech.  One thing for sure is that Russia is much better at propaganda than the West.  I am trying to remember if during the cold war, the Russian people were as well controlled by propaganda or were oppressed by brute force of the Kremlin.

It is quite startling to witness in real time the outright lies that are believed by so many people that have access to the internet and alternative news sources.

Doug (Calmissile)

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1080 on: December 18, 2014, 10:08:15 AM »
  Sometimes we give the Russian population too much credit.  If Obama had given the same speech after the dollar tanked the day before, the populous would be all over him and he'd be run out of town.  Even by his own party.  Absent any serious dissent through an opposition party, with equal air time, it is unreasonable to think that the Russian people would be able to discern the true state of affairs.  Even, as we have seen, when some Russians are exposed to the truth here in America - they still can't get the noodles out of their ears.
Listen, rouble (AND the currency of all the countries that sell oil) "tanked".
Is it Putin's fault that the price for oil has changed that  dramatically? Is he a suicider? No way.
Russians understand it.
Also - do you know who owns Central Bank of Russia?
So these two things are staged (not by Putin).
Russians are not idiots and understand both parts.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 10:12:42 AM by Doll »

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1081 on: December 18, 2014, 10:09:23 AM »
I  have to agree with your assessment of his speech.  One thing for sure is that Russia is much better at propaganda than the West.  I am trying to remember if during the cold war, the Russian people were as well controlled by propaganda or were oppressed by brute force of the Kremlin.

 
So were Americans.

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1082 on: December 18, 2014, 10:13:49 AM »
BTW, dollar is 61 rubles today, so it is getting better

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #1083 on: December 18, 2014, 10:19:24 AM »
Listen, rouble (AND the currency of all the countries that sell oil) "tanked".
Is it Putin's fault that the price for oil has changed that  dramatically?

No other petro country currency has fallen as dramatically as has the ruble.  Norway's krone fell from 6.93 Krone per US dollar to 7.36 in a month.  Canada is an "oil" state as well.  Its currency has fallen 8%.  Hardly comparable to the dramatic collapse of the ruble.

The overnight increase in the ruble is due to the Central Bank propping it up with foreign currency, so it is not as big a win as you believe.
 
 
 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #1084 on: December 18, 2014, 10:21:03 AM »
So were Americans.
During the Cold War?  No, there is no comparison.  Not even on the same planet.  Western media has been dumbed down a lot though since those days.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline jone

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« Reply #1085 on: December 18, 2014, 10:26:49 AM »
To answer your question, Doll.  Yes.  I do know who owns the Central Bank.  While independent, it is commissioned by the Russian constitution.  (Mendy wrote a good post on this quite recently.)  I have been to Neglinnaya Ul. in Moskva.

Now, I have a question (or two) for you:  Did you watch his Presser?  Or is your response to me coming before actually having watched the speech?  Is it your assertion that the drop of oil prices was conspicuously created as an artificial act to ruin the Russian economy as Putin alluded to?

You keep on saying Russians are not idiots.  I'm hoping to see your proof of that. 

As a general response to most of your recent posts, it is not 'freedom' when you are not able to hear both sides of an argument.  You are forced to accept the only point of view offered.  Doll, it is time you removed the noodles from your ears.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #1086 on: December 18, 2014, 10:30:09 AM »
Russia has always been free, will always be
Well, no, not always.  There was the Golden Horde.  As for Russians (as opposed to Russia), perhaps you can explain this "freedom" to my husband, whose ancestors were exiled under the Tsars, and his immediate family, who fled their estates and moved to Ukraine in order to escape the same fate as those in their family who did not have that foresight.  Those family members who did not escape to Ukrainewere shot to death, down to babes in arms, by the "freedom loving" Bolsheviks.  One who did escape, to Paris, was persuaded to come back, and on his return, was immediately sent to Lubyanka, where he was tortured for days before being shot.  Then, of course, my own husband was so "free", he was denied the right to leave the USSR, right up to its collapse.   
 
 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 10:32:41 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1087 on: December 18, 2014, 10:41:08 AM »
During the Cold War?  No, there is no comparison.  Not even on the same planet.  Western media has been dumbed down a lot though since those days.
It is very comparable

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #1088 on: December 18, 2014, 10:41:22 AM »
BTW Doll, were Putin a visionary leader, or even a good leader, he would have been working to diversify Russia's economy.  To have 50% of state revenue reliant on one resource is not smart because, when it collapses, as Russia now knows, so does the country's currency and standard of living.
I have always maintained that Russia was really no different from Ukraine.  The only difference is, Russia has vast commodity wealth.  Russia also went much further in reining in its oligarchs, but its economic prosperity was not deep. 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 11:04:53 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1089 on: December 18, 2014, 10:42:06 AM »
To answer your question, Doll.  Yes.  I do know who owns the Central Bank.  While independent, it is commissioned by the Russian constitution.     
It is owned by the USA
Hello!

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1090 on: December 18, 2014, 10:44:03 AM »
I just tried to watch Putin's press conference but on my computer it stopped every 10 seconds.
Can you give me a link where I can watch it, Jone?

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1091 on: December 18, 2014, 10:48:24 AM »
Well, no, not always.  There was the Golden Horde.  As for Russians (as opposed to Russia), perhaps you can explain this "freedom" to my husband, whose ancestors were exiled under the Tsars, and his immediate family, who fled their estates and moved to Ukraine in order to escape the same fate as those in their family who did not have that foresight.  Those family members who did not escape to Ukrainewere shot to death, down to babes in arms, by the "freedom loving" Bolsheviks.  One who did escape, to Paris, was persuaded to come back, and on his return, was immediately sent to Lubyanka, where he was tortured for days before being shot.  Then, of course, my own husband was so "free", he was denied the right to leave the USSR, right up to its collapse.   
Ok, not after Golden Horde
By the way the story of your husband has nothing to do with Russia being free.
Free from any other country.

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #1092 on: December 18, 2014, 10:53:40 AM »
No, I disagree.  A country can't be free if its inhabitants are prisoners.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #1093 on: December 18, 2014, 11:06:04 AM »
It is very comparable
Having lived in the USSR during part of that period, and having lived in the West, I can tell you that you are deeply mistaken. 
 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline jone

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« Reply #1094 on: December 18, 2014, 11:12:00 AM »
Doll,

I have the feeling that you have absolutely no clue as to what the Russian Central Bank is and does.  It is a policy body.  It determines the amount of cash and reserves in the Russian economy.  It is completely controlled by the policy makers who sit at the Financial Advisors table in the Kremlin.  It would be comparable to the FED here in the US, but has slightly different functions.  One of those functions, that the FED does not participate in, is money speculation. 

As an entity, it does have a majority ownership in Sberbank, which operates on a retail basis in Russia and the former Soviet Union.

So, any commercial activity, as you point out, that may have US ownership, is not the function nor purpose for the bank.  The bank is rigidly controlled by the people in power in the Kremlin.  Any 'investment' or ownership as you claim, is for those who wish to ride along as the Russian government speculates.  Half of the proceeds coming from this entity are channeled directly back into the federal government budget.  There is much more to it.  But that is as far as I am willing to discuss it.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1095 on: December 18, 2014, 11:13:28 AM »
Boe, it is just your opinion. I think that you are deeply mistaken

Offline jone

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« Reply #1096 on: December 18, 2014, 11:14:24 AM »
As for Putin's Presser, I watched it on The Moscow Times.  It was being fed live at the time.  (No translation, not that you need it.)
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1097 on: December 18, 2014, 11:23:19 AM »
As for Putin's Presser, I watched it on The Moscow Times.  It was being fed live at the time.  (No translation, not that you need it.)
Link?
I don't need the translation)))

Offline mendeleyev

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« Reply #1098 on: December 18, 2014, 11:27:13 AM »
Quote
it is time you removed the noodles from your ears.

Note: Jone's comment is a popular one in Russia. One of those phrases hard to understand by itself from a textbook, but Jone's use of it illustrates the proper usage.
The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline Doll

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« Reply #1099 on: December 18, 2014, 11:31:01 AM »
Note: Jone's comment is a popular one in Russia. One of those phrases hard to understand by itself from a textbook, but Jone's use of it illustrates the proper usage.
Note- Doll has no noodles on her ears

 

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