Don't go to Odessa!

[ML]

If it bothers you that I use the Russian spelling for city names or any other words, you don’t have to read my posts.

What is bothersome is that you are deliberately showing contempt and disrespect for the country of Ukraine.

It is akin to someone arriving for a meal invitation at the home of a, known to be, devoutly Jewish family . . . and bringing pork appetizers.

[Faux Pas]

What is bothersome is that you are deliberately showing contempt and disrespect for the country of Ukraine.

It is akin to someone arriving for a meal invitation at the home of a, known to be, devoutly Jewish family . . . and bringing pork appetizers.

Bullsh*t. It seems to me to be more of a case of "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". The guy is living his life in Odessa and he's living it as not only he's learning/being taught but as the way he sees fit. That's adjusting to his surroundings. You'd be hard pressed to find a Ukrainian anywhere around him half as insulted as you pretend to be

[Trenchcoat]

I must say I am used to the old spellings of Odessa & Kiev and comfortable with them. Odessa & Odesa are virtually the same just one s less in the Ukrainian version which apparently comes up as a spelling error when typing as opposed to its Russian counterpart. I don't mind Kyiv it's growing on me but Odessa kind of still feels more right with two s's in it to me. I think that historically being known as Odessa for a long time during Soviet times and other references in film & literature idk it kind of builds up a certain culture to the place, so can seem to kind of erase that with name alterations. Kyiv I still see as a version of Kiev both valid but Odesa with one s doesn't really sit easy with me for some reason.

[brownbeard99]

What is bothersome is that you are deliberately showing contempt and disrespect for the country of Ukraine.

It is akin to someone arriving for a meal invitation at the home of a, known to be, devoutly Jewish family . . . and bringing pork appetizers.

The only person showing contempt is you. I have many friends here. They all speak Russian and Ukrainian is a secondary language for everyone I know (at most). People here Don’t give a crap how you spell Odessa. There are two languages here... they merely see it as the Russian spelling and the Ukrainian spelling.

I spent the day with babushka and shared with her the Comparison you made of bringing pork to a Jewish family for dinner. She is Jewish.  She had a very direct response. She wanted me to tell you “ Иди на хуй!”

[brownbeard99]

I took a few random pictures today.  Car dealerships use "Odessa". Companies in the city use "Odessa".  The Odessa tourism board uses "Odessa". Official government placards on historic buildings use "Odessa"

I was thinking about ML's Jewish comparison.  He is like a Jewish man showing up at a Christian's house uninvited and screaming at him for eating pork. 

People in Odessa are fine with the way things are here and they don't give a crap what some self-righteous American thinks. Why do you have the need to try to control other people in other countries? This is the ultimate disrespect.

[Boethius]

The only person showing contempt is you. I have many friends here. They all speak Russian and Ukrainian is a secondary language for everyone I know (at most). People here Don’t give a crap how you spell Odessa. There are two languages here... they merely see it as the Russian spelling and the Ukrainian spelling.

I spent the day with babushka and shared with her the Comparison you made of bringing pork to a Jewish family for dinner. She is Jewish.  She had a very direct response. She wanted me to tell you “ Иди на хуй!”

Wow.  Some classy people you hang with.  Homo Sovieticus.


Incidentally, Soviet Jews tend not to keep dietary restrictions.  It has resulted in a lot of prejudice against them in Israel.

[tfcrew]

I must say I am used to the old spellings of Odessa & Kiev and comfortable with them. 

Phonetically ...nothing changed -------
Here you go in German--- ist das Kapitol von der Ukraine Kiew
In French---- le capitole de l'Ukraine est kiiv
M L brought up Bombay.... That sounds nothing like Mumbai.
Beijing sounds nothing like Peking.
Myanmar sounds nothing like Burma.
The cities of Ukraine which is still spelled Ukraine did not change their names!
 

[Boethius]

Kyiv and Kiev are pronounced differently.  I had a link here for Sandro (God rest his soul) with the difference, from a native speaker.

[brownbeard99]

Wow.  Some classy people you hang with.  Homo Sovieticus.


Incidentally, Soviet Jews tend not to keep dietary restrictions.  It has resulted in a lot of prejudice against them in Israel.

My girlfriend lived in Israel for 5 years. She is half Jewish and her late husband was 100% Jewish (both from Ukraine).  I asked her about the racism she experienced living in Israel and she had no idea what I was talking about. The only racism she has experienced is visiting Turkey, Arabic countries, and of course, Ukraine.

[Boethius]

A lot of Israelis have emigrated to my country, many, to my city.  I know most that are originally from the USSR (small community).  Most of them came here because of lack of opportunities, but the former Soviets often mention how they faced prejudice because they weren't religious.  That starts from having their bona fides as Jews questioned by rabbis (the only ones who determine who is a "Jew" for religious purposes).  It's actually become a hot topic of debate in Israel, with many stating that this power in the hands of mostly Orthodox rabbis is a bad thing - that "classifying" Jews is inherently anti Semitic.  I recognize this is a completely different topic.


Soviet Jews were selling salo and pork meat in Jerusalem.  That was considered scandalous and was widely condemned, with protests by ultra Orthodox Jews outside the stores.  Many who emigrated return to Ukraine regularly for visits, and love living in Israel.  They don't care about their status as "Jews", and say it's like the old USSR (a good thing to them).

[tfcrew]

Kyiv and Kiev are pronounced differently.  I had a link here for Sandro (God rest his soul) with the difference, from a native speaker.

Boe... the city of New Orleans is pronounced differently by various sectors of the country.
Some say it Nuu Oarleens some say NuArlians [like it's one word] So what?
Some folks say Haviie others Hawaya but it is still spelled Hawaii on the map.
Northern/midwest speakers say stuff like ruf [for roof] or caiyuot for coyote [caiyoteee]
What I really hate... is when people call data-- da-da instead of day-tah   

Now we have really wandered off topic huh? 

Like all cities...Odessa/Odesa/Odeca or however.. has it's bright side and it's shady one too.

[brownbeard99]

As suggested, I started my trup report and also started a thread for the peanut gallery.

If you want to see trip photos, go to:

http://ukrainediaries.wordpress.com/

[Trenchcoat]

As suggested, I started my trup report and also started a thread for the peanut gallery.

If you want to see trip photos, go to:

http://ukrainediaries.wordpress.com/

That's good to see some pics from your life in Odessa BB. Possibly might have drunk wine & eaten outside at that restaurant where you are when I was in Odessa, is it the one with the strange pyramid mini bazaar type centre opposite? Possibly another one, many restaurants there and a great place to enjoy eating out in the summer Nice you are getting wedding sorted already, some people drag it out so more exciting to get right onto it I think!

[2tallbill]

As suggested, I started my trup report and also started a thread for the peanut gallery.

If you want to see trip photos, go to:

http://ukrainediaries.wordpress.com/

I always advise a little bit of cross promotion.

For those who want to comment on his BBeard's Trip report & travel blog or
just to read what the peanut gallery thinks they can do so here

BB's Peanut Gallery
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=25179.msg555444#msg555444

BB's Trip Report
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=25178.msg555443#msg555443

[brownbeard99]

That's good to see some pics from your life in Odessa BB. Possibly might have drunk wine & eaten outside at that restaurant where you are when I was in Odessa, is it the one with the strange pyramid mini bazaar type centre opposite? Possibly another one, many restaurants there and a great place to enjoy eating out in the summer Nice you are getting wedding sorted already, some people drag it out so more exciting to get right onto it I think!

I’m not sure where you are talking about. The picture is close to the Afina and Europa shopping malls... there is also another underground mall close by. This place is a block behind McDonald’s on Deribasovskaya street.

[ML]

So BB . . . did you get married or what ???

[2tallbill]

If you say to a young Ukrainian girl with average everyday looks who works cleaning toilets
in the local shopping centre or Airport, 'hey this WM is interested in you and you can go
have a good life with him in the UK and not have to clean toilets anymore' then I think
many would jump at the chance provided the guy wasn't a real state or anything.

The vast, vast majority of women in the FSU will elect to stay in the FSU and marry
a man from the FSU.

Young FSUW who work cleaning toilets usually have something wrong with them.
This is a job for a very low educated, most likely an immigrant from someplace else.
A young woman who does this job is a young woman who can ONLY do this job.

If you are seeking to procreate with this type of low intelligence/ low educated girl
and mix it with your lazy genes, I can only imagine what offspring such a relationship
would produce.

Trench,
I set out to find the find the smartest, most honest, industrious, loving, pretty woman
who was willing interact with me and then I won her heart. You are determined to finding
the exact opposite?

[JohnDearGreen]

Young FSUW who work cleaning toilets usually have something wrong with them.
This is a job for a very low educated, most likely an immigrant from someplace else.
A young woman who does this job is a young woman who can ONLY do this job.

I remember emailing an attractive Riga lady years ago.  She worked cleaning tables
in a restaurant.   She was a Russian immigrant and they were discriminated against
compared to the native Latvians.  Only job she could find.   Although 40% of current
population is Russian, they still refuse to recognize Russian as a secondary language.

[ML]

I remember emailing an attractive Riga lady years ago.  She worked cleaning tables in a restaurant.   She was a Russian immigrant and they were discriminated against compared to the native Latvians.  Only job she could find.   Although 40% of current population is Russian, they still refuse to recognize Russian as a secondary language.

I spent considerable time on business in all three Baltic countries; Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

Those people have never forgiven the Russians for subjugating their country for many years.

During Soviet times, the native folks could not obtain many jobs unless they were proficient in Russian language.

It is only natural that Karma has come around.

Now on a slightly different topic . . . chasing women.

Baltic countries are not a good place for this.
1) the women can easily go to western Europe on their own.
2) the economy is not so bad that western men have an advantage to play.
3) Baltic women are not warm and cuddly as are most Slavic women.

[John Gaunt]

The vast, vast majority of women in the FSU will elect to stay in the FSU and marry
a man from the FSU.

Young FSUW who work cleaning toilets usually have something wrong with them.
This is a job for a very low educated, most likely an immigrant from someplace else.
A young woman who does this job is a young woman who can ONLY do this job.

If you are seeking to procreate with this type of low intelligence/ low educated girl
and mix it with your lazy genes, I can only imagine what offspring such a relationship
would produce.

Trench,
I set out to find the find the smartest, most honest, industrious, loving, pretty woman
who was willing interact with me and then I won her heart. You are determined to finding
the exact opposite?

It’s usually about control. Men who seek such women think it gives them an advantage and that the woman will indebted to them for rescuing them from their drudgery and be happy with whatever crumbs the WM throws at them.
This is what Trench wants, control, over the women’s body, her work, money etc, so that she doesn’t dump him for the first better model she finds after arrival.
That, as we all know, won’t be hard for any woman to do.

[iloveukrayinkas]

The city name is spelled Odesa.

Not even according to their own city Authorities!!!

[iloveukrayinkas]

Some of those type of girls apparently turn up at AFA events but apparently tend to be outshone by the pretty girls & scammers, etc. It's funny I was thinking about AFA today that I think many of those older dudes, overweight guys and guys that just don't seem to get it well either they don't truely get it or they know its a scam hand on heart they just see it as a way to get their dream of spending time with a load of real pretty girls in an imaginary world that for a short while appears to come true for them. If they are like that I don't blame them as it's probably nice for them to experience what they never had and a few hundred dollars to them is probably nothing. If they really are deluded though then that is unfortunate particularly if they've been doing it for years and still never caught on.

AFA doesn't just invite model looking girls or very young girls to those events. There's average everyday women going there to meet men as well as scammers and prodaters ofc. There are way more of these women than the more sus girls. You just have to watch one of their videos on youtube and you will see that men that go there are not only interested in Model looking or Instagram model quality women, they chat up the normies and the oldies as well. Ofc a gorgeous looking woman may catch the eye of one of those men, but many know that they may be high maintenance and don't make good wives anyway. You would have to personally attend one of those events to really understand what's going on and not just assume that because there are Supermodels among them, that they will hog all the available men there, that's not what goes on.
Not trying to be the devils advocate or anything but in one of their webcasts John admits to one of their customers being interested
in this hot gorgeous model, there had been some complaints or ongoing investigation about her so he warned him that there could be a problem with that one "lady" and advised jnot to go out with her. Still The man insisted he wanted to go out with her so he did but he was taken to the cleaners by her! And so, there are many other model looking women on their database that are just like that, but men also have to have discernment and not just believe everything they are told.

[iloveukrayinkas]

I’m thinking about doing this. You learn so much more living here than you do as a tourist. I have volumes I could write... I’m just trying to prioritize what is most helpful. The best thing I can say is to tell people to give up any unrealistic fantasies you may have. People may find love in Ukraine, but it won’t look anything like Elena’s Models wants you to believe.

I'm sorry Beard but I do have to call BS on this one!!! I went to Ukraine, I've been to Odessa, and perhaps I even saw the most beautiful young woman in ALL Ukraine there upon arriving to your city. Finding a very beautiful woman to talk to in Odessa is NOT difficult. And if it's not difficult to talk to them consequently you can eventually get one for yourself as well. There is ABSOLUTELY no point in going all the way to EE if you are from America or Australia if what you are going to go for is just an average girl! Of course, she may be a 7 with a girlfriend treatment of 10 points, but can't you get that in your hometown as well?? I'd say that is just
poor mentality, and it is something that you can change, and strive for excellence.
Actually, my ukrainian teacher told me that every 2nd girl in Ukraine is beautiful, and to my surprise when I got there it was practically TRUE! Even my mexican friend who lives in Kharkiv gets grade A pussy all the time, so why downplay Elena's models?
If you are happy with your current girlfriend and think you've found love, well, that's OK but why completely discourage other men to finding love in Ukraine? Or if the guy is old and looks like crap but has lots money and he is ok with an arrangement then that's their decision.
Now, not that I disagree about Odessa, I totally agree it's shrowded with scammers, prodaters, time wasters and the like, definitely not a city I would go to find women. But to totally discredit an entire country, that's just not right.

[Trenchcoat]

AFA doesn't just invite model looking girls or very young girls to those events. There's average everyday women going there to meet men as well as scammers and prodaters ofc. There are way more of these women than the more sus girls. You just have to watch one of their videos on youtube and you will see that men that go there are not only interested in Model looking or Instagram model quality women, they chat up the normies and the oldies as well. Ofc a gorgeous looking woman may catch the eye of one of those men, but many know that they may be high maintenance and don't make good wives anyway. You would have to personally attend one of those events to really understand what's going on and not just assume that because there are Supermodels among them, that they will hog all the available men there, that's not what goes on.
Not trying to be the devils advocate or anything but in one of their webcasts John admits to one of their customers being interested
in this hot gorgeous model, there had been some complaints or ongoing investigation about her so he warned him that there could be a problem with that one "lady" and advised jnot to go out with her. Still The man insisted he wanted to go out with her so he did but he was taken to the cleaners by her! And so, there are many other model looking women on their database that are just like that, but men also have to have discernment and not just believe everything they are told.

Not meaning to make it look like AFA are all bad, there can be some decent girls there on the tours. On the documentary 'love me' (2014) two of the guys they showed in the tour met someone but two also got scammed quite bad. One guy that went with the EM website got scammed also. So it's hit & miss, some can be down to luck and for those more experienced or on the ball down to awareness. So just trying to make the guy aware. Most dating services that operate for the FSU have some downside even the more cleaner operations that or they start of clean and slide downhill over time. John Adams seems a decent enough guy but he will know the model he operates isn't perfect but that it turns in a good profit for him, as he says himself in the above documentary it's down to the guy to look out for himself. He probably knows that it's very difficult in a country like Ukraine to root out the scams it's a part of life out there. That said he's operation I believe is more focused on profit making than being concerned with whether it delivers genuine women. That he warned a guy of a girl isn't really here nor there I feel, no he probably doesn't like to see it but his business model puts profit concerns up the top and he knows that scammers creep in a lot even if they knock a few out along the way. He's not earning guys that there are many scammers on AFA as he wants them to use their services and who would if he told them that. For a newbie there is too much opportunity for bad luck on AFA just see how much debt that guy on the documentary racked up. Guys have found success with AFA but it's one to tread extra careful with in my opinion.

[Trenchcoat]

I'm sorry Beard but I do have to call BS on this one!!! I went to Ukraine, I've been to Odessa, and perhaps I even saw the most beautiful young woman in ALL Ukraine there upon arriving to your city. Finding a very beautiful woman to talk to in Odessa is NOT difficult. And if it's not difficult to talk to them consequently you can eventually get one for yourself as well. There is ABSOLUTELY no point in going all the way to EE if you are from America or Australia if what you are going to go for is just an average girl! Of course, she may be a 7 with a girlfriend treatment of 10 points, but can't you get that in your hometown as well?? I'd say that is just
poor mentality, and it is something that you can change, and strive for excellence.
Actually, my ukrainian teacher told me that every 2nd girl in Ukraine is beautiful, and to my surprise when I got there it was practically TRUE! Even my mexican friend who lives in Kharkiv gets grade A pussy all the time, so why downplay Elena's models?
If you are happy with your current girlfriend and think you've found love, well, that's OK but why completely discourage other men to finding love in Ukraine? Or if the guy is old and looks like crap but has lots money and he is ok with an arrangement then that's their decision.
Now, not that I disagree about Odessa, I totally agree it's shrowded with scammers, prodaters, time wasters and the like, definitely not a city I would go to find women. But to totally discredit an entire country, that's just not right.

If your friend lives out in Ukraine odds are he is wealthier than the local Ukrainian guys, perhaps he doesn't have to work for the money either. So for local Ukrainian women he is going to look like a good option, a wealthy enough foreign guy who isn't just flying in for the day or week. Getting pussy is relatively easy in that basis out there, getting a girl for marriage that is hot looking is a lot harder no doubt, they have to see that there is enough in it for them depending on how the guy is not just an occasional gift of perfume or dress or whatever.

A lot of the women in the FSU can look good to western girls that have wreaked themselves and gotten fat, look a state or mental health is shot. But in reality a lot of them have either dressed up for the photos and/or gotten professional photos taken. The number of truely attractive hot model looking women is not a lot different to here but they are more accessible out in the FSU I think as there are not nearly as many rich guys as in the west, but you still need to be rich to stand a chance of it ending well I think in terms of marriage.

I personally agree somewhat with why US & Australian guys go all the way to EE for an average woman. The US has south America on its doorstep (Siberia possible for some also) while Australia either has south America, Siberian end of Russia on its doorstep. Silky to go all the way to EE on a long haul flight that is time consuming & expensive when there are just as good options closer by. South American women can be hot and come with good traditional values of loyalty, etc, probably moreso than a lot of EE women but will depend on the woman a bit. Western guys that go peeing in each others back yard a lot just means that they are making it harder for everyone by adding more competition. If we generally went to what is in our back yard and spread ourselves bout a bit it would be a lot easier for everyone I reckon. Nothing wrong with checking out the scene further afield out of interest but in the whole if we don't all go for the same area too much then we all would get an easier time of it I think.