Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?

[BC]

FP,

Indeed, every nation facing this crisis will be overloaded.  Consider the comparison points that I bring up not as a direct critique of other systems, but instead thoughts for the future.  This will NOT be the last global pandemic we will face.  Another can appear tomorrow.  Although bad, we are fortunate thus far that this virus is not many times more deadly as it is.

One of the difficulties we have as Americans (myself included) is our feeling of being somehow exceptional, often disregarding experiences of other countries by sticking labels on them such as 'socialist' turning us into a nation of ignorant naysayers.

I'm not going to say our healthcare system in the US is inferior, but surely can appreciate the advantages of other healthcare systems that come to light during such crisis. 

The 'curve' is a measure, but not one of success.

I do see advantages with universal type healthcare systems.  All over the globe, folks are getting sick, isolating themselves and laid off work, even here.  What is different in most if not all of Europe is that sick leave is a given and not something that requires new, time-consuming legislation.  folks that are laid off do not lose their healthcare coverage.  They do not have to live in fear of a hospital bill or worse, losing their homes or having to declare bankruptcy.  Deciding whether to go to the doctor or hospital based on how high the bill or copay will be is a totally 'foreign' idea over here.  Being refused treatment or tests at a hospital because my insurer is not part of their 'system' would be considered absurd here but is happening back home.  Take an unconscious patient arriving at a hospital in the US.  What is the patient's history?  What are the pre-existing conditions, what recent treatment has he/she received recently?  Here, much of that data is readily available with the card we all carry.  Being more centralized, the 'system' can make better and faster overall decisions.  It may not be perfect but decisionmakers have a LOT more information here to work with that makes it helpful to try and 'stay ahead of the curve'.

The way I see it, our 'exceptionalism' is killing us - literally and financially.  The bill will be high in Italy, but for the most part, will get what they pay for a lot quicker.

I could go on and on...  Hopefully a few here will get the gist of what I'm trying to say in my posts.

Maybe I'm wrong, so please do let me know of any advantages you see with remaining one of the very few highly industrialized and wealthy nations in the world without universal healthcare is beneficial, especially in times such as we are now living.

[GQBlues]

I'm happy to see Los Angelenos, at least those within my radar, took the CDC guideline to flatten the curve and did without the usual celebration of St Patty's Day!

Some things relevant to the current situation:

DISPELLING THE MTYHS AROUND CORONAVIRUS

THE INFECTION RATE OF COVID-19

Let's Flatten The Curve One American at a Time...

[jone]

I was informed that non-essential federal offices will be closing tomorrow.

[Gator]

BC seemingly has had a tone that the US healthcare system is inferior to Italy and other nations. He points to lack of testing but for me that doesn't begin to quantify his position. I do truly believe the US system is likely one of the best in the world.

I imagine you and I have the benefit of the latest and best medical treatment in the world.  Maybe we pay more for it than Europeans.   BC is correct that the US healthcare system does not provide the universal coverage typical in Europe, thus allowing some people to fall through the cracks of general health protection. Those are political issues.     

A global epidemic is not a political issue.  It is not even a general health issue.   It is a public health security issue. 

The US was deemed the highest ranked nation regarding global health security.   Not my opinion but the opinion of an  international advisory panel of 21 experts from 13 countries who made a comprehensive assessment referred to as the Global Health Security  Index. 

Source:  http://www.ghsindex.org/   

The US was ranked the highest with the UK second.  Does that mean we were prepared?  No, because the "GHS Index analysis finds no country is fully prepared for epidemics or pandemics. Collectively, international preparedness is weak. Many countries do not show evidence of the health security capacities and capabilities that are needed to prevent, detect, and respond to significant infectious disease outbreaks."

GHS Index rankings and scores for 195 countries:

            1.  US           83.5
            2.  UK           77.9
            9.  S Korea    70.2
          31.  Italy         56.2
          51.  China       48.2

BC is absolutely correct that the US epidemic testing capability proved inadequate.  However, we addressed and corrected the issue of testing quickly, and are now rolling out a huge expansion. 

Big Picture:  Extensive testing is important, yet not the only weapon used to address an epidemic.  The GHS index considered about 35 different factors, of which lab systems and real time surveillance (not just testing) are two. 
 

[GQBlues]

IMHO every nation that is dealing with this virus crisis healthcare system is stressed and overloaded. None were prepared to treat even a relatively small portion of the entire population from an additional illness on top of what they already serve on a regular basis. Throw in a pandemic and the problems that follow and all hell breaks loose. BC seemingly has had a tone that the US healthcare system is inferior to Italy and other nations. He points to lack of testing but for me that doesn't begin to quantify his position. I do truly believe the US system is likely one of the best in the world. We won't know where in the curve we are until we're at the end of it, will we?

I fail to see exactly HOW universal healthcare is solving and meeting the crisis in Europe today, especially in the richest, highly healthcare rated region of Italy (Lombardy). Reality today is showing it has little value as any other. Sudden and unprecedented epidemic/pandemic will always put unexpected burden on any healthcare institution regardless of system.

It's difficult to make a valid point when one is standing over a crumbling platform that which they're trying to promote.

BC is wholly basing his opinion of US healthcare on the tired ol' talking points. That will never change.

[Faux Pas]

FP,

Indeed, every nation facing this crisis will be overloaded.  Consider the comparison points that I bring up not as a direct critique of other systems, but instead thoughts for the future.  This will NOT be the last global pandemic we will face.  Another can appear tomorrow.  Although bad, we are fortunate thus far that this virus is not many times more deadly as it is.

One of the difficulties we have as Americans (myself included) is our feeling of being somehow exceptional, often disregarding experiences of other countries by sticking labels on them such as 'socialist' turning us into a nation of ignorant naysayers.

I'm not going to say our healthcare system in the US is inferior, but surely can appreciate the advantages of other healthcare systems that come to light during such crisis. 

The 'curve' is a measure, but not one of success.

I do see advantages with universal type healthcare systems.  All over the globe, folks are getting sick, isolating themselves and laid off work, even here.  What is different in most if not all of Europe is that sick leave is a given and not something that requires new, time-consuming legislation.  folks that are laid off do not lose their healthcare coverage.  They do not have to live in fear of a hospital bill or worse, losing their homes or having to declare bankruptcy.  Deciding whether to go to the doctor or hospital based on how high the bill or copay will be is a totally 'foreign' idea over here.  Being refused treatment or tests at a hospital because my insurer is not part of their 'system' would be considered absurd here but is happening back home.  Take an unconscious patient arriving at a hospital in the US.  What is the patient's history?  What are the pre-existing conditions, what recent treatment has he/she received recently?  Here, much of that data is readily available with the card we all carry.  Being more centralized, the 'system' can make better and faster overall decisions.  It may not be perfect but decisionmakers have a LOT more information here to work with that makes it helpful to try and 'stay ahead of the curve'.

The way I see it, our 'exceptionalism' is killing us - literally and financially.  The bill will be high in Italy, but for the most part, will get what they pay for a lot quicker.

I could go on and on...  Hopefully a few here will get the gist of what I'm trying to say in my posts.

Maybe I'm wrong, so please do let me know of any advantages you see with remaining one of the very few highly industrialized and wealthy nations in the world without universal healthcare is beneficial, especially in times such as we are now living.

BC,

A lot has been learned from the spread of this virus already, on the medical front. I expect before it's over with a lot more will have been learned as well. Probably much more than we have to date. There is ample pros and cons for either socialized medicine or single pay. Every nation that has dealt with covid to date has been caught unprepared and that doesn't mean whatever system they have is better or worse than the other. The number of administered is only a marker on the bigger scale. We're not in disagreement here overall more so just portions. Your opinion is based on your experience as mine is from mine.

Because a system is funded, labeled socialized healthcare doesn't in anyway make it superior. Apparently it's the quality of healthcare that concerns me whereas you seem to hold quantity is higher esteem. For me, yes, everyone should have availability to health care and a doctor for quality healthcare, full stop. How it gets paid for is not the measurement. Healthcare isn't a right in this country but, it is available to all who seek it. Depending on the need and prior preparedness , lifestyles could change.

I can give you an example as my MIL recently passed away in Russia's socialized healthcare due to a heart valve but mostly "because" she was 93. We paid for her cardiologist and was prepared to pay for a procedure to fix it. The doctors provided would not even discuss her operation because of her age and her 50/50 chance of surviving the procedure. The long and short of it is, she died while waiting for an operation date which never came. This was over the course of about 8 months. The cardiologist was ready willing and able to do it because she was going to die without it. She simply was not giving the green light for hospital OR because of her age. In the US this would have been performed

[Trenchcoat]

Coronavirus well & truely in Ukraine now:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2020/03/19/as-ukraine-shuts-down-its-citizens-come-to-terms-with-coronavirus

There at the beginning cases of it all but many are apparently already self isolating and flights into Ukraine have been stopped.

Currently 16 cases with two woman with passing away from it, a 71 yr old and a 33 yr old:

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/coronavirus-in-ukraine-16-cases-including-member-of-parliament.html?cn-reloaded=1

[GQBlues]

On the economic side of this, they are expecting massive unemployment in nearly every aspect of our working population. This morning it is reported new unemployment claims had already reached 20%.

The price of oil right now is at $22.00/bbl.

Crazy times...

[2tallbill]

Remember the H1N1 bug that was going around in 2009-2010?
I posted a joke about it



300K Americans were hospitalized. 60 million Americans infected.
12,469 Americans died. There wasn’t any media panic. The Republican
Party did not politicize it at all. Nobody said that O'Bummer wanted
people to die.

What a difference Trump Derangement Syndrome is. What a difference
if we have a Lefty president like Barry O. The left is HAPPY to wreck the
economy if they can blame Trump.

[jone]

Putin said he was hoping to ruin fracking by refusing OPEC requests.   Well, my guess is that fracking is finished for the time being.   

[GQBlues]

….
300K Americans were hospitalized. 60 million Americans infected.
12,469 Americans died. There wasn’t any media panic. The Republican
Party did not politicize it at all. Nobody said that O'Bummer wanted
people to die.

What a difference Trump Derangement Syndrome is. What a difference
if we have a Lefty president like Barry O. The left is HAPPY to wreck the
economy if they can blame Trump.

~ Never let a good crisis go to waste ~  R. Emmanuel

If you look at what made the current $1.2 trillion stimulus bill the current administration is trying to do to help in this current crisis, you'll see that many liberal initiatives being inserted in exchange for their approval. It's madness! Abortion, universal sick leave, and a whole stew of non-related matters into the bill just to prevent delay in passing the bill.

[Trenchcoat]

Trump has said a malaria drug, perhaps like the one used to treat Coronavirus out in India, is effective at treating the virus:

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-19/trump-touts-malaria-drug-as-potential-coronavirus-treatment

If so, even if it is not a full vaccine it could mean that countries such as the UK & US suffer a lot less from the Coronavirus than countries where it spread quicker and earlier such as China and mainland western Europe.

If existing drugs like this can start being used in the next few days & weeks then not only may it save many lives but we may also avoid a lot of the economic damage that mainland western Europe is suffering.

[Gator]

Trump has said a malaria drug, perhaps like the one used to treat Coronavirus out in India, is effective at treating the virus:

Posted earlier.  Chloroquine in use since the 1930s. 

If so, even if it is not a full vaccine it could mean that countries such as the UK & US suffer a lot less from the Coronavirus than countries where it spread quicker and earlier such as China and mainland western Europe.

Full vaccine?  It is a therapeutic drug, totally different from vaccine. 

Yes, if it is effective in treating COVID-19 infections, that would be a huge blessing.  Probability of success - likely around 30%. 

[Gator]

No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.

[jone]

No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.

Lots of dead dogs.   

[krimster2]

look fellas...
stop clinging to your denial...

the fall in the stock market is inversely proportional
to the rise in the infection rate for covid-19 in the USA...

as the infection rate tries to get to infinity...
the DOW tries to get to NEGATIVE INFINITY...

the slope of the virus crash, is ALREADY STEEPER than the crash of 29.....
no matter how many trillions are gonna get injected...
it will fall by 90% this year....

I bought treasuries...
cuz they will be the last domino to fall before I have to dig up the gold...
next year, gold will be too valuable for trading, because it's worth too much...
if you dropped a Krueger Rand down on the table at the trading post, you'd cause a freaking riot complete with gun play, and your ass would get kicked out of the trading post real fast for being such a putz!
so be smart, and go in the back and swap it for silver, then pay 10 pieces of silver for your boxes of food in the front!
ignore the teenage girls offering to give you oral sex for one piece of silver in the back of the trading post
it's a "setup" watch your back, only stay up front and you and your buddies watch each other's backs the whole time
and freakin look like you know how to use the weapons you have strapped on...

if I were y'all I'd kill some evil hearted loner early to establish a ' 'rep...
bullies avoid someone with a 'rep

 

[Trenchcoat]

No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.

For them that is indeed good news. In general it does show the virus could be potentially beatable by severe self isolation. Still some time for China to wait on. However, there problem was that around 34 people returned to China in the same day with the virus so risking a secondary re-infection of the nation. Looks like long term a vaccine or at least some medication that much lessens the impact is the only way to more efficiently sort out this virus.

[GQBlues]

I was informed that non-essential federal offices will be closing tomorrow.

Well I, for one, am not surprised there are such offices deemed 'non-essential' in the federal level.

So in the spirit of expediency, let's hope they never open again so we can get rid of them altogether, yes? We can start with the 116th US Congress.

No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

That is good news. But I am even more glad to see no one died in Italy today. Especially on the heels of suffering from a near 500 fatalities yesterday.

edit: Oh WOW! Just like that, update reports 427 new deaths in Italy! 34 new cases in China...As of right now, Italy surpassed China's death toll!!

[Trenchcoat]

Boris today in his daily briefing reckoned the UK would have the Coronavirus on the run in some form or another in about 12 weeks.

I think with medications in development good stuff can be done but I am dubious that it will on its way out in 12 weeks. I reckon there will still be significant restrictions then. What do others think on this?

[jone]

No one posted has yet posted this good news from NY Times

"For the first time since the crisis began, China today reported no new local infections for the previous 24 hours. Experts have said at least 14 straight days without new infections are needed for the outbreak to be considered over.

I'm just curious..... with how many times the Chinese Government has lied to us over the last five months, you really think they're telling the truth now?   Yes, I think we should absolutely trust them.   Especially since they are rounding up all of the Western Reporters and deporting them. 

I wouldn't trust the Chinese Government if they were promising $1000 to every adult in the land.   Oops.  That's our government.  (Cringe!)

[GQBlues]

Italy's Guiseppi Remuzzi said:

Remuzzi says he is now hearing information about it from general practitioners. "They remember having seen very strange pneumonia, very severe, particularly in old people in December and even November," he says. "This means that the virus was circulating, at least in [the northern region of] Lombardy and before we were aware of this outbreak occurring in China."

WTF?! Is it possible then that the origin of this virus is from Italy and not China?

[jone]

Without clear disclosure from the Chinese, of which I am absolutely certain we will never receive, we will never know who, exactly, this woman named Typhoid Mary really is.

But, if it turns out that there were multiple outbreak points at places across the globe, I can tell you that I, personally, do not believe in such coincidence.

[Faux Pas]

Italy's Guiseppi Remuzzi said:

WTF?! Is it possible then that the origin of this virus is from Italy and not China?

That's wild and something to think about. In late Dec and early Jan I contracted something I considered the "crud" as I had the 4 way flu shot. I was sure (at the time) it wasn't the flu because of the shot. For 10-12 days I felt like death warmed over. I literally dry coughed all day and night for 6 of those days. It started in my throat and stayed there. . I had a constant bad headache like I had a fever but the thermometer never showed more than 99. My SIL had it before mine was over, then the wife and then my daughter. My SIL who is a doctor said he believes we either had it or something very close to it. Other than the high fever, we had all the symptoms

[GQBlues]

Exploring the plausibility. Wuhan, as many of you already know, is where 40% of global supplies originate...a whole lot of consumer goods are made or assembled, and shipped from, Wuhan.

What this mean is, it is central to global commerce and people from anywhere come and congregate in this region. Italy's commerce central, Milan (Lombardy region) is one of them. The US is certainly chief amongst them, too.

FP, how are you feeling now? Your family? Any of you qualified to get tested?

[Gator]

TOM HANKS - ONE TOUGH YANK!
 
Tom Hanks survived for four years on an island as a castaway.
He spent a year in an airport, without being able to leave it.
Caught AIDS in Philadelphia.
He was in World War II and rescued Private Ryan.
He went to Vietnam and rescued Lieutenant Dan.
Was on a boat kidnapped by Somali pirates.
Survived Apollo 13 trying to reach the moon.
Landed a Boeing on the Hudson River.
If this son-of-a-bitch dies of coronavirus, we are all screwed!!!