The true GCG

[BC]

We hear stories of GreenCardGirls.

I find it hard to believe that a high number of women want to find a man for a simple reason to emigrate.

I'm sure there are some that some women might want to use a failing relationship to their advantage as the end nears, but true premeditated GC intent?

I dunno.. Given the possibility of the few hundred extra bucks scamming vs finding a 'mule' I think the scam would be the easier and more lucrative choice.

Thoughts?

[Bruce]

I believe the going rate on the street is 25 K for a guy to receive for pretending to marry a girl and bring her into the USA legally from the FSU.  If they and or their families are willing to pay that much to bring people into the USA from the FSU I believe yes - the GCG is desperately going to do what it takes to get here for free!

[Bruno]

We hear stories of GreenCardGirls.

I find it hard to believe that a high number of women want to find a man for a simple reason to emigrate.

I'm sure there are some that some women might want to use a failing relationship to their advantage as the end nears, but true premeditated GC intent?

Yes, so girls exist... but i don't think that they are in the high number...

First, they are enough young and enough poor... the povrety of the girl is a motivation for change of country... and when she is young, she is able to loose some year with a man she don't love only for paper... in some way, several hooker make the same for money... and after some year, they stop and start a confortable and respectable life in other side of country...

About premeditated... of course all is premeditated... the best example is my own case... never big fight with wife, all was almost right but the same day she receive his Belgium nationality, she ask the divorce... six month before this, we have hire a new appartment... when she have fill the contract, she have inform the owner that she was already divorced... same if i have always pay the hire and the caution, for the law, she was hiring the appartment, so she have keep it... same for all the furniture... she have make all the facture on her name but it was me who have pay... the proof of pay was not valid but the name of buyer "yes"...

She have always say me that her ex-husband will not agree for the adoption of Anastasia... but i have make a try... expensive and long procedure... some month after our divorce, i have receive a paper from the russian ambassy... it was a copy from a act make in Russia the 6 juni 1999, where the father renounce to all his right on Anastasia, this 20 day before our marriage... again a lie, she have never wish that i adopt her daughter...

And after 3 month in Belgium, she was already with a other man... in case it was not working we me, she have a reserve wheel...

How i know all this !!! She have say herself the last day i was at the tribunal for the divorce... i have not believe her, i have think that she wish hurt me more... but i have visit some of the men who have sleep with me, and they have confirm several thing... and i have learn some of her secret...

Her next move was a marriage with a doctor from St Peterburg... her russian love... but these man was not with so much patience and have marry a local woman during her marriage with me...

So, her plan was not fully working... now, she is alone... she have try several time to contact me, try to use the child... but i have go away... her daughter was my weakness... since she is beautiful, she know a lot of man but no one wish marry her... it is not really in the custom in Belgium to marry, it is something old minded... live together maybe... a woman and child is enough expensive, specialy if the woman don't wish and cannot work... and return to russia is not a option since the child is fully integrated here...

She have game... i have loose... but she have loose too... her own parent will not more see her... and now, i know the real story from her first husband... again someone she have use for have a more high social situation... her mother have not accept her behavour and she have begin know problem from these time with family...

In short, these woman exist... they are poor, beautiful, young... and ready to all for a better situation... they exist but are not numerous... and since the situation become better in FSU, so type of woman dissappear from the MOB business... they hunt localy, the new russian men, the rich one...

 

[Michelangelo]

Good post, Bruno--

I have heard parts of your story before...but without all these details...and now, even more--it makes me sad. But thank you for sharing it becasue it helps others be more careful before they marry....

[Bruno]

Good post, Bruno--

I have heard parts of your story before...but without all these details...and now, even more--it makes me sad. But thank you for sharing it becasue it helps others be more careful before they marry....

 

I have know the detail after the divorce :X

And really, i am not sure that it can help other people before the marriage... i have know some red flag but it was during the marriage, already to late...

Maybe a lie detector before the "yes" can be a option...

I am sure that several American guys here, until the two year "green card" was not specialy secured over the relation... after these two year, they have feel better... so GCG love you like other woman can make it... she love you not because yourself but because you are the "door" to a new life... in some way, she love you like a man can love his auto, because he need it ... but some passion can appear between the two...

You find the same situation when a woman marry a rich local man... she can marry him for the luxe life... when you marry, you promise mutual support for the good and bad time... so woman enjoy the good time and quit you in the bad time...

Build a real friendship relation before a love relation can be a help... but this ask a lot of time, sometime year... not easy with foreign relation...

[Journeyman]

BC,

On the basis of my own experience, I would agree with Bruno.  GCGs exist.  But maybe moreso years ago.

In 2001, I had a "lite" version of Bruno's experience.  I almost married a gal who was a GCG.  I discovered the extent of her deception shortly after she arrived on a K-1.  It was sort of a (foolish) one-trip-wonder, and she played me very well (at first).  Interestingly, after her arrival, and when I finally accepted the reality of her deception, and confronted her with it, surprisingly, she admitted to it, simply saying, "What else can I do?".  

I don't know how prevalent they are now, in late 2005.  In fact, since that time, I have also come across the type of scammer that you mentioned -- one who would work a guy for money WITHOUT the intention of ever leaving the FSU.  One gal I had a relationship with for a year in 2004 simply pumped me for money.  In fact, I've met a few of that sort (though avoided every one, except that one that I just mentioned).

I do think that they are now the more predominant group.  It seems they can not only get what they wnat (money), but also satisfy their families' desires for them -- that they meet a nice, respectable guy who will take care of them.  However, even if they "show" you to their family, they can have absolutely no real interest in marrying you.  That is a tricky type of scammer to detect, as they are not only setting out to fool you, but also their family.  Quite cold-blooded.

Since I have heard the same story from LOTS of other guys I know within the last 2 years, I wold say that, within the overall group of scammers, I think this is a rapidly growing group.

Journeyman

[Marc Dayton]

Bruce

 

? to you or any other member I have also heard about being paid 25k or more or less. Can any one say for fact they know a man that has been paid this kind of money.

 

If so line me up. Just a joke

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Native Dyslexic American who cares more about building 

Russian American families then spelling or grammar.

[Bruno]

[user=170]Marc Dayton[/user] wrote:

If so line me up. Just a joke

The reverse situation exist... but the price are more low... take a look at the following article :

http://www.msuspokesman.com/media/paper270/news/2004/11/19/WorldNews/Marriage.Citizenship.Fraud.On.The.Rise-813779.shtml

... The Department of Home Affairs said these false marriages were a part of a series of marriage scams created by foreigners seeking permanent residence... In other countries, such as Pakistan and Egypt, government officials have encountered similar problems of false marriages. Reportedly, men in Egypt and Pakistan were paying women to be their pseudo wives. The prices ranged from 15 to 23 dollars a month. These men were trying to avoid new immigration laws that make it tougher to stay in the country....

 

[Maxx]

My experience is fairly well known so I am not going to repeat it here. From what happened to me and from has happened to others that have talked with me I put together this list of things.

1) Marriage agency encouragement to marry in their country. Thus committing a guy who accepts to a natural loyalty to his wife and rationalizing away the "Red Flags".

2) Down right offers from the women, their mothers or others to be a mule.

3) Women who have a boyfriend or ex-husband that she still has sexual contact with or to planning to have all through the engagement and marriage.

Here is a e-mail sent to me (edited by me) with a guy with a GCG FSU wife.

once I got suspicious of what my wife was up to I placed a keylogger on her computer. I was able to set everything up without her knowing how I am monitoring her internet activity. Every now and then I would collect the logs from her computer by using a wireless connection to my laptop. I also got her passwords so when her **** boyfriend sent any mails I was able to intercept them and copy them including the headers. She was accessing the free sms online and sending sms from her phone to her 'ex' and I was able to generate a copy of her cell phone bill with showing that she was still sending the **** boyfriend sms up until 00th **** 2005, seeing as we got married on 00th ***** 2004 and her telling me on a number of occasions that she would never contact him again. I also got her cybersexing with an ***** male videoconferencing and sending him pictures of herself naked to make him hot. Everything went to the attorney in ***** except the pictures of her naked, I have some morals about pictures of that nature but my wife doesn't, after this is over they will be deleted and shredded. Thanks for your help Maxx, fingers crossed that the next few weeks will pass quickly and uneventfully. Placating her is hard but that is short term.... 

4) Preplanned before leaving the FSU, contacts in the West to take them on to their next life once the marriage ends. Sometimes boyfriends, future husbands or employment both legal and illegal are part of the preplanning.

5) ANY false domestic violence charges being made to secure the current immigration status of the GCG.

6) False emergencies to have the spouse/fiance to wire money to the wife/fiancee or her accomplices to either;

   a) Provide a emergency fund for their next life after she leaves "the mule".

   b) Pay off those who assisted in the fraud or who are on to her to keep their silence.

YES GCGs exist. How common is anyone's guess. BTW I would not classify a GCG as a woman who hopes to love her husband someday, immigrants because she wants a better life for herself and her children. Then it just doesn't work out and they divorce. I would call a woman a GCG if she has no intention of making a marriage work and makes no effort to make it work.

Maxx

  


 

[Bruce]

Honestly Marc, I do not know one person personally who got into our country that way, nor has anyone ever approached me to act as a mule prior to marriage.   Somehow, it is just common knowledge in the primarily immigrant area I live in.  Next time I hear people talking about finding a guy / paying him to "marry" a relative to get them in I'll learn the real rate and get back to you to see if  you'd be a willing mule .

[Maxx]

I heard it from a friend. He was offered 10 K up front to get a Cuban woman into the country and another 10 K once she got here. He said "No". Then when he went to Ukraine the women he was writing to somehow seemed off in her personality. In his conversations with her mother he recognized the personality and realized it was the mother whom he was writing to all along. When he confronted her on this the mother said "How much do you want to bring my daughter to America?" He declined.

Remember a wife of a USC can get her US citizenship in 5 years if she is married to a USC or was a spouse to an "abusive" USC. Then with her USC secured she can petition with an I-130 relative petition her family members and of course her mother.

Maxx   

[RacerX]

IMHO you guys are missing it.

From what I have seen the past few months, GCG's are flourishing, much more so than crude scammers.  But, I think it's necessary to examine the psyche of the ultimate GCG.  They are not thinking in mere terms of costs, for their prey, they have the ultimate goal in mind: a USA passport.

The more sophisticated ones would never admit to even knowing what a GCG is, nor in all reflection, be able to identify as one.

No, they are more cunning, and much more dangerous, for indeed these are girls "with a plan."  Strangely, they often like their 'mule' husbands, and might realistically be friends with him in the future.  But, make no bones about it, the goal they wish to obtain can be done with or without his help (ask Maxx about this).

They are far to clever for most of the men who thought that a tumble in the hay meant anything substantive.  These very attractive, sometimes (although rarely: a clue to their detection)  intelligent young 'ladies' quite clearly know what they want and how to obtain it.

Most, if not all, have access to the Internet, and although they may not directly know about boards like this one penned by over the hill romeos - they know precisely what to say.

Most of the poor slobs have no idea they married one until a year or two later.  There are many signs, but few of their "mules" know what to look for.

Ah, yes, today's GCG, there has never been any like her in the past!

[Maxx]

Good Post RacerX

You are right they don't need his help once they legally enter the country on a K-Visa.

I believe there is a  list that they work down

1) Enter the country legally.

2) Marry (if not all ready married).

3) Then do ASAP the Adjustment of Status, EADs, SSA #'s, Driver's license or learner's permit.

4) Get a hold of his finances (I put the brakes on all this with mine as I knew a divorce was emminent) by getting joint checking accounts (that he will fund), credit cards (that he will pay), health insurance policies (that he will be required to maintain even after the separtion) and name on the mortgage title (that will require him to split the equity during the length of the marriage) and other.

5) Establish Russian contacts and others in the immigrant community that are sympathetic towards immigration fraud.

6) Not get a job if DV is the choice for an early out. The reason will be stated later *.

7)  Establish themselves with a good jobs or business and work towards self-sufficiency (good women can do this also)

Find a boyfriend who will accept a live together arraignment after the separation. This is so common I suspect it happens in the majority of the time.  

For those who wish to go the DV route:

A) Establish with their "friends" that their husbands are abusive and/or neglectful. A big tip off that this is happening is that their friends are standoffish, cold and somewhat hostile towards the husband.

B) Picking fights about the smallest of things (even good RW do this) then postition herself to make it escalate into something worse. Such as destruction of his property, locking him out of his house or on to the balcony, standing in front of the door when he is trying to leave, humiliating him sexually during sex, flirting with other men, insisting on sleeping apart and so on. Any reaction to this by the man this can trigger a 911 call.

C) Going to woman's shelter or doing a 911 call. It has the same effect.

For those who wish the getting the Green Card in hand first.

A) Simple do steps 1-7 and play the content wife until Legal Perminent Residency Card is obtained.

B) Then false DV charges to bolster a spousal support claim during the divorce. If she has no job * then her support can be more. 

C) Then off to a new life and with it a new story of how she got her GC. As example she came in on a Student visa or her husband/sponser was felon when he was not or her husband/sponser was near her same age when he was 25-35 years her senior and so on.

Welcome to America, the land of opportunity and a second chance.

Maxx

I should be given MANA for that one... 

 

 

 

 

[Bruno]

For those who wish the getting the Green Card in hand first.

Here, she need to wait a legal time, who count only after the marriage for have some right... after 3 year married and living together with husband, she can ask the nationality... for this, police make a neightbour enquete and she need to prove that she is good integrated...

In the case of my ex-wife, she was refused the nationality... in these time, the dossier was confidential but now, i know why... she was not enoug discret when she have meet other man at our home and the neightbour enquete have reveal this...

Of course, not knowing this, like a crazy, i have use a lot of money for pay a very good lawer who have find a procedure error... because of these procedure error, we have win the case and my ex-wife have dump me when she have receive the nationality...

Now, about finances, all was already in our standart marriage contract... all from before and after marriage is personal, all from the marriage periode is shared... all is fixed by standart law but it seem that in US a pre-nups is needed...

Since she have ask herself the divorce, she was at the guilty side... so, it was not needed to pay some support... a DV existe in Belgium but not like in USA... it is need to be a physical attack and a repeted attack... moral reason or grazy reason don't work... your DV give too much power to the woman...

In some way, i am enough lucky... the expense for the divorce was 52 euro ( shared ) and i have never pay something after... all the home furniture where she was able to prove that they was buy after the marriage was shared... since that we have go life to a new house at the end of our marriage and that we have buy almost all new, she was able to have the half on all... of course, she have never give me my part and since she have the minimum income given by state, law officer can take nothing...

Now, her own situation... she have wish that her russian boyfriend come life in Belgium... but these have not her patience and during these 5 year, he have find a other woman... so, she is alone... she have loose several friend ( both Belgium and Russian )... if she work, some law officer take directly some % of her work money and give it back to me for pay back my part of furniture... her family ( parents ) don't wish see her anymore but i am always welcome... and she life at the povrety level...

Yes, for a green card ( our identity card are really green ), she have loose a lot... living in some ghetto in Russia, Belgium or USA don't change a lot... if a man protect good himself, she have almost nothing to win... GCG are woman who dream to have all without any work but it is only a dream... same in USA, you need work hard for reach something...

PS: Since she don't work and/of she have a low income, she cannot sponsor some other russian for obtain a visa...

Maxx, this time, i am very happy that i am not a American... here, women have fight for have the same right that men but it seem that in USA, women have more right that men... now, i understand why scammer like American... they are good informed over the law who protect women and they use it for attack men...

[Maxx]

Maxx, this time, i am very happy that i am not a American... here, women have fight for have the same right that men but it seem that in USA, women have more right that men... now, i understand why scammer like American... they are good informed over the law who protect women and they use it for attack men...

I copied this off a Woman's Website that supports VAWA petitions. Note what is needed to support this petition in red:

http://www.womenslaw.org/immigrantsVAWA.htm (below is at the bottom of their page)

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Cover letter - this is the "roadmap" for the CIS examiner[/font] [/*]
  
• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Index
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]G-28 Notice of Entry of Appearance (if represented by an attorney or advocate)[/font] [/*]
  
• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Form EOIR-40 Application for Suspension of [/font][/*]
  
• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Deportation with $100 fee
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Form EOIR-42B Application for Cancellation with $100 fee
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Form G-325A (biographic information) with photograph and fingerprints
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Self-petitioner's detailed declaration
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Evidence of self-petitioner's identity
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Evidence of qualifying relationship to US citizen or lawful permanent resident
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Evidence of abuser's status as a US citizen or lawful permanent resident
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Evidence of good faith marriage
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Evidence of battery or extreme cruelty (self-petitioner's declaration can be enough)
  [/font][/*]
  
• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Evidence of current residence
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Evidence of good moral character (you can show this by an affidavit or a background check or report issued by a law enforcement authority)
[/size][/font][/*]

• [font="Geneva, Arial, sans-serif"]Evidence of extreme hardship[/font]

[/*]
In other words no official proof is needed that abuse happened except their "word" that it happened. Unfortunately for the man falsely accused the woman do not know this and frequently put their husbands behind bars to get it. 

Oh and by the way, only the woman is given access to submit evidence of her INS case. The man is not allowed to know what is said about him in her INS file or to send a rebutal or give his side. If derogatory evidence is somehow in her file she is given the opportunity to refute this. The man is not given the same consideration. 

I was told by an INS adjudicator that any evidence of abuse no matter how shaky grants the petition. Apparently even her word that it happened is enough. In this way Belgum is certainly far ahead of America in justice and common sense.

Good post Bruno.

Maxx

[Maxx]

Oh Bruno, could you shorten your link? It breaks the page on this important subject.

Thanks,

Maxx

 

[Bruce]

Violence against woman act - and a bunch of women lawyers who are their advocates.  How can we get this conflict of interest mediated?  This garbage has just gone too far.

[anono]

bruce, i agree with you. the usa has become so out of whack with the reality of what is really going on...

american men are blamed for everything from slavery to any oppression of any kind and then we are expected to pay for it....everything...they even want restitution from the days of slavery, like we had something to do with it. i mean, how about going after the dutch or the other tribes that kidnapped them and sold them into slavery? won't happen because we're the only ones with the money.

my brother is the states attorney of my county. what a woman can claim against a man is amazing and we are not even able to face our accuser.

did you know men used to be routinely awarded custody decades ago? ever wonder how that changed?

ever wonder in these days of "equality" why we are still seen as the bread winners and have to pay even if the ex has her own money?

thank our politically correctedness and oprah shows...

it all goes back to the brainwashing we had as kids..."little girls are sugar and spice and everything nice"..what bullship!  most men cannot hold a candle against what women are capable of...we men have no feelings, no compassion...  and then women let us raise another man's child as if the child is ours.........

[BC]

Ok.. it's the innocent before guilty thing, guys are gonna get screwed in the end and there ain't a darn thing you can do about it.. period.

Lets talk about motive. Is life so much better working at wallmart than a store in RU?  Walk away from family and friends for this?

I'm sure women who have good qualifications can approach in other ways. The nuclear physicist has good opportunities everywhere.

Once the shopgirl has GC in hand then what?

Something just doesn't make sense.

[Bruno]

Sorry, posts can be edited only within 12 hours of the original posting.

About breaks the page... i don't understand... all is right on my screen... OK, if Dan can delete my post from the 04/10/2005 at 11:20, it is not a problem for me

[Bruno]

Something just doesn't make sense.

 

Yep, it is a key sentence...  some poor woman dream about Western country... all they know are from the Holliwood film who show young student living in big villa from Beverly  Hill, with big auto and swimming pool, buying for several thousand of $$$ in luxe clothes shop...

These woman are ready to loose all they have for these dream... but when they see the reality, it is really other... again the good old topic over the expectation...

[Maxx]

Something just doesn't make sense.

 

The last word I hear for certain about my ex-wife was that she was complaining her Russian education as an economist had no worth here and that she needed to take an entry level jobs.

I doubt most of these women see beyond getting the coveted Green Card and getting a few of their ex-husbands assets into their corner.

The one other thing I heard later about the ex, although this is uncertain information, was that she was living with a man in his mid-forties in a well-to-do city. So perhaps she hooked herself up another guy?

That brings me to the point that allot of these rather attractive Russian/Ukranian women do not find it too difficult to find another mule. After all they had what it took to get one guy to chose them over thousands offered in the MOB catalog.

Maxx

 

[Bruno]

That brings me to the point that allot of these rather attractive Russian/Ukranian women do not find it too difficult to find another mule. After all they had what it took to get one guy to chose them over thousands offered in the MOB catalog.

Find another mule  Not always so easy... when i have know my ex-wife, she was around 20 yo... now, she is 27 from september... first, she have take some kilo in the same time that she is become older... when i have choice her, she was with a baby... now, she is with a young girl...

No, the situation will never be the same for her... and more, the potential canditat will be very suspicious when they will know that she have already marry a western man and divorce some time after... she will receive the GCG label...

Ok, some fool looser can be ready to choice her because he have no other choice but what she have to win in so situation...

[Maxx]

If my last bit of information was correct then my ex-wife did not get all she wanted. She wanted a younger man. Younger than herself. Her two previous husbands before me where 4 years younger than she (She's almost 37). She worshiped youth. I figured her next would be in his early thirties maybe late 20's but a guy in his mid-forties? Stability with a cozy house....

So Bruno, perhaps you are correct. They are not going to get youth and wealth/stability. Plus they better be damn good wives which is a humilation in it's self for them.

Maxx

   

[anono]

BC hit it on the head...guilty and you're lucky if you even have a chance to prove anything differently...  or even listened to at all.