Run for your lives....The propaganda war

[BC]

If you want to know the "recent image" that Russia gives to the USA watch a documentary serial "Одноэтажная Америка"where 2 Russian and 1 American journalist make a big movie about life in America travelling from one state to another(25 states and 50 towns/cities) and asking people different questions about their life, in Russia it's shown on Mondays- channel 1.

hmm... IIRC firstchannel.ru is 'official'.  If so, strike two against those proposing anti American/West propaganda.

[krimster]

First some numbers.

There are in the USA today about 50,000 children adopted from Russia.
The reason for this is that until very recently there were very few adoptions within Russia, so the Russian government sanctioned foreign adoptions to help reduce the orphanage population to make way for the new ones.

There are about 700,000 total Russian children living in detskii doma in 2005, and about 2-4 million homeless Russian children living "on the streets".

On the condition of Russia's orphanages, please read "CRUELTY AND NEGLECT IN RUSSIAN ORPHANAGES" at http://hrw.org/reports98/russia2/ published by by the Human Rights Watch foundation.

Ukrainian orphans have about a 10% chance of committing suicide by the time they are 21.  See http://www.ukraineorphans.com/En/needs.htm   
I would expect Russia's institutions to have a similar rate.

Of the 50,000 Russian orphans in the USA, 14 have died due to abuse and neglect.  Even if it were one, it would be inexcusable.  To the best of my knowledge the Russian orphans have suffered a disproportionate amount of abuse and neglect.  Unfortunately, I believe it has something to do with the condition that some of the children are in.  Russian orphanages frequently select for adoption the most disabled children.  Their disabilities are the direct result of abuse and neglect within the orphanage system. I have seen first-hand how this happens, one example I saw was toddlers who were placed on a cot all day, the only human contact they received was when they were fed, and this contact was not warm and friendly.  These children will with 100% certainty grow up abnormally.  Foreign parents who adopt Russian children must spend a lot of time and money to navigate the system.  When they finally receive custody, many are shocked at what they receive, a physically or mentally disabled child.  Often their frustration turns to anger that they can't control and then a tragedy occurs.

Rather then condemn a system that has cost 14 lives, I would instead praise it for saving thousands.  If someone in Russia wants to make a "propaganda" war out of this, please visit a detskii doma first, then criticize foreigners who by their own efforts save children from these places.

[Faux Pas]

so why  does watching bad movies about bad and terrible poor Russians cause so much pleasure to  people from the west that they are ready to pay for this trash?!


why do Russian cinemas and Russian TV shows the same movies about the USA and any other countries as they do in the west-Devil wears Prada, Spanglish, different comedies, "friends", etc and as for American TV it only shows crap?!

If you want to know the "recent image" that Russia gives to the USA watch a documentary serial "Одноэтажная Америка"where 2 Russian and 1 American journalist make a big movie about life in America travelling from one state to another(25 states and 50 towns/cities) and asking people different questions about their life, in Russia it's shown on Mondays- channel 1.
The first channel has  different time for people living abroad and it's in Russian but you have Russian wives with who you can see it and I am sure they will translate it for you.

it has 16 parts as I remember:they show them since February till May.
http://www.1tvrus.com/anonce/pkvs/9159/?tz=47

here you can download it

http://www.intv.ru/view/?film_id=45329

Serebro,

You put much, too much stock into Hollywood movies. They are only movies and for the most part completely fictitious story lines made for no other reason than to entertain. If I am not mistaken there is also a very big hunger in Russia for Hollywood productions just as there is in most parts of the world. There are Russian made productions that project Americans and America as the villians. There is a cross segment of this amongst many different countries. Some for propaganda but most for entertainment. It is not an American propaganda machine taking aim at Russia or the FSU. There is no conspiracy that I am aware of to defame or denigrate Russians.

While I am at it, I would also like to explain the differences in the media between Russia and the US. I've made a relatively nice living in this area for over 25 years so I may be somewhat knowledgeable on the subject.

The media in Russia is 100% government controlled. What this means is that everything you hear from news on the television, news on the radio or printed in the newspapers has received your governments approval and "OK" from it's assigned censors. Do you ever wonder about the news that did not receive your governments OK, and because of that, you consequently did not hear or read? Did you ever wonder about the volume of the news you did not hear? Unless you are industrious enough to search uncommon news sources, you most likely did not get the "whole" truth or the full story.

The media in the US operates on a different platform and is not government controlled. It is for the most part driven by the free enterprise system. In the US, media outlets can print and broadcast anything they wish, truth or untruth. Whether or not they can survive would depend largely on funding by advertising or circulation. Advertising and circulation is largely contingent on credibility. Does this mean everything broadcast or printed in the US media is true? Absolutely not. It is very difficult to receive any news that hasn't a slant or underlying agenda.

My point here is; no matter where you receive your news, get it with an objective, open mind and don't believe everything you read or solely in one source. Just because someone is spoon feeding it to you, doesn't mean it's true.

[Misha]

Faux Pas makes some really good points. If I compare Russian television with Canadian television, the one thing that strikes me is the difference that exists between our state-funded television and Russian television. In Canada, there are a number of comedies on the state-funded CBC. Shows such as This Hour Has Twenty Minutes, The Rick Mercer Report and The Royal Canadian Air Farce ridicule all politicians including the Prime Minister weekly. And Russia? There was a popular Russian television show that satirized Russian politicians using puppets. Once Putin came to power, this show "Куклы" was taken off the air because of Kremlin pressure. I challenge Serebro or anybody else to find me a Russian comedy television show  that is now playing on Russian television that openly mocks the Kremlin and Russian government officials on prime time television. 

[krimster]

Serebro, I lived in Ukraine 3 years, during that time I watched predominantly Russian TV, I have traveled extensively throughout Russia and Ukraine. This is just for background information.

Let me tell you something about the propaganda war between the West and Russia.  It's ALL being done by the Russian Government.  All the biggest media in Russia are owned by the Russian government and they use if for their negative propaganda campaign against the west.  Why does  the Russian government do this?  Does it think, rather falsely that people or institutions in the West care what it says?  No, this information ISN'T EVEN DIRECTED AT THE WEST.  This campaign is for the Russian people.  To allow them to direct their feelings of nationalism.  The government's tool for controlling you pridoriks is your own damned nationalism.  Never mind the staggering problems facing the country, like population decline, low life expectancy, poverty, and about 100 more.  No, never mind that, but look at THESE SVOLICHEE in the West.  Are you Russians really so dense as to fall for this?

PS About movies portraying Russians as "mafia gangsters", my favorite was "Brat", oh but wait that is a Russian movie......

[Gator]

I challenge Serebro or anybody else to find me a Russian comedy television show  that is now playing on Russian television that openly mocks the Kremlin and Russian government officials on prime time television. 

One of my fondest memories about Russians came in 1974, a long time ago but so revealing of Russian mentality.   I attended a basketball game in Washington, DC between CCCP and the USA.  After the game, the teams stood while awards were given, each CCCP teammate with the same stoic expression. 

Midway in his short speech, the announcer mentioned President Ford and how he played and loved sports.  The 15,000 fans screamed BOO!   It was immediate and thunderous.  Why?  The day before Ford had pardoned Nixon. 

I was near courtside and could see the team’s reaction.  Upon hearing the boos, the CCCP coach got a puzzled look and turned to his black leather jacketed interpreter beside him (who probably also served to prevent defections).  He asked something, and the interpreter responded, evidently explaining the reason for the booing.  The coach hearing the explanation snapped his head back in dismay, his eyes became big, he stood still for a moment and then he smiled and chuckled, one of those deep chuckles where the chest vibrates and the head bobs. 

The coach turned to his team and made a comment which was passed to the others. All were abuzz with looks of dismay, big eyes, and under the breath chatter. For the rest of the ceremony, the stoic expression was replaced by one of amazement.   What a country - anyone is allowed to boo the premier leader?  The American team never flinched as to say, "So what is new?"

Yes, that was Soviet days.  But how much has changed?  And is the change to the media shifting back towards Soviet era times?

[BC]

Sure TV and radio in RU probably have wider audiences, but there is free press as long as internet access is not limited.

Sure language may be a problem, but we have that same problem.  In fact this thread contains very little or no direct evidence at all supporting the position that RU news outlets are spouting BS about the US or other nation.

I stated in another thread that the best news service is provided on government stations in Germany.  Straight from the wire services with no BS interpretation attached. 

[WmGO]

First some numbers.

There are in the USA today about 50,000 children adopted from Russia.
The reason for this is that until very recently there were very few adoptions within Russia, so the Russian government sanctioned foreign adoptions to help reduce the orphanage population to make way for the new ones.

There are about 700,000 total Russian children living in detskii doma in 2005, and about 2-4 million homeless Russian children living "on the streets".

On the condition of Russia's orphanages, please read "CRUELTY AND NEGLECT IN RUSSIAN ORPHANAGES" at http://hrw.org/reports98/russia2/ published by by the Human Rights Watch foundation.

Ukrainian orphans have about a 10% chance of committing suicide by the time they are 21.  See http://www.ukraineorphans.com/En/needs.htm   
I would expect Russia's institutions to have a similar rate.

Of the 50,000 Russian orphans in the USA, 14 have died due to abuse and neglect.  Even if it were one, it would be inexcusable.  To the best of my knowledge the Russian orphans have suffered a disproportionate amount of abuse and neglect. 

  Rather then condemn a system that has cost 14 lives, I would instead praise it for saving thousands.  If someone in Russia wants to make a "propaganda" war out of this, please visit a detskii doma first, then criticize foreigners who by their own efforts save children from these places.

Thanks for that reality injection.

[wxman]

My favorite Ronald Reagan story was when he was hosting the Soviet leader (I believe it was Brezhnev) and he told Brezhnev about all the protests outside of the White House. He told him that here in America people can assemble freely and say bad things about him and curse him without any fear of being arrested. Brezhnev said that people in Russia can also freely assemble in front of the Kremlin and say bad things and curse Reagan.

[Faux Pas]

Sure TV and radio in RU probably have wider audiences, but there is free press as long as internet access is not limited.

Sure language may be a problem, but we have that same problem.  In fact this thread contains very little or no direct evidence at all supporting the position that RU news outlets are spouting BS about the US or other nation.

I stated in another thread that the best news service is provided on government stations in Germany.  Straight from the wire services with no BS interpretation attached. 

This is assuming that the wire services have no agenda to push. It is my understanding that not all the news outlets in Russia are government controlled but, those that aren't don't seem to stay in business long.

BC, no matter where you receive news from, somebody gathered it and disseminated what "they" wanted you to know.

[Ranetka]

My parents live in not so big siberian town. They have 17 (seventeen) FREE TV channels. Are you serious they are ALL controlled by Russian government?

To my experience there is no difference whatsoever, both sides are just the same bad. I do not watch BBC programms about Russia anymore - make me angry. (Been watching for 3 years - either lie or not telling all truth, that can change the perseption).

My favorite example - Planet Earth. Brilliant documentary. While being in Mongolian desert the team spotted old soviet vans. Laughed and bashed them throughout. Not pretty, don't start immediately etc. Vans were from 1980s, run without proper service, being fixed with whatnot available, in temperatures +50 to -50 C, and they laughed??? If it was British cars, they would never shut up about how bl*dy reliable the vans were...

I do not recall anything good said about Russia or Soviet Union on TV here at all. May be things changed since last two years, I don't know.

[krimster]

Yes, all NATIONAL TV channels in Russia are owned by the government, appears most Russians fail to realize this.
For example NTV is owned by Gazprom which is 50% owned by the Russian Government.  Don't believe me try this link from the BBC
from a FEW YEARS ago!

On the night of 22 2003 June Russian authorities switched off TVS - the last remaining privately owned national television channel in Russia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3014816.stm

There ARE some local non national stations, but they must at here to CERTAIN RULES

one kind of journalistic assassination

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9382-2004Jun2.html

and another 13 dead Russian journalists
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20350

So the fact remains, Russian media is Russian GOVERNMENT media

[Makkin]

  Hubble Telescope is being fitted (so they say) to take shots of the moon surface and show pictures of the six landings complete with six flags and also rovers and other left behind equipment.
  Seems you can prove or not simply by doing this with the proper telescope yes?

  The moon landings happened but ya just gotta prove it..lol

Makkin

[Gator]

My favorite Ronald Reagan story was when he was hosting the Soviet leader (I believe it was Brezhnev) and he told Brezhnev about all the protests outside of the White House. He told him that here in America people can assemble freely and say bad things about him and curse him without any fear of being arrested. Brezhnev said that people in Russia can also freely assemble in front of the Kremlin and say bad things and curse Reagan.

That is a good one and I remember it being replayed.

Some Russian PM evidently have a keen sense of humor.  One of the best ad-libs, maybe the best ever, came from Gorbachev.   While standing next to Reagan in Iceland (?), reporters asked them a number of questions.   

One question, "How would history have been different if Nikita Khrushchev had been assassinated instead of Jack Kennedy?"   

Gorbachev thought for a very brief moment and replied, "I don't think Aristotle Onassis would have married Mrs. Khrushchev."

Maybe a SOH comes naturally - it is needed to survive the difficult times.

[Jazzyclassy]

My parents live in not so big siberian town. They have 17 (seventeen) FREE TV channels. Are you serious they are ALL controlled by Russian government?

To my experience there is no difference whatsoever, both sides are just the same bad. I do not watch BBC programms about Russia anymore - make me angry. (Been watching for 3 years - either lie or not telling all truth, that can change the perseption).

My favorite example - Planet Earth. Brilliant documentary. While being in Mongolian desert the team spotted old soviet vans. Laughed and bashed them throughout. Not pretty, don't start immediately etc. Vans were from 1980s, run without proper service, being fixed with whatnot available, in temperatures +50 to -50 C, and they laughed??? If it was British cars, they would never shut up about how bl*dy reliable the vans were...

I do not recall anything good said about Russia or Soviet Union on TV here at all. May be things changed since last two years, I don't know.

 

[Serebro]

lmao, as soon as our western members lacked arguments they started remembering something that happened in 1974....

to those who say that an average american has access to a lot of news and different channels I will say the following. Yes, they do HAVE access, the main point if the WAY this information is given and if these americans want to know something that happens in the world and my impression is that they don't.

I will give you an example.

When I was in America I lived with an average american family, middle class one, we all went to work/study, came home, had dinner together and watched TV, etc...

life was fine, one day I called to my mom, she was very nervous and said that a couple of hours ago she came home from work and she watched the news on NTV and they said that there was some big hurricane in the south of America and that she was afraid that it would come to the place where I was, and so on...
I laughed and said to my mom that if there had been  something serious they would have informed us.

Later on that day I asked people with who I lived if they knew something about some hurricane in the south of America.They said no and went on watching some show.

I came online and on mail.ru where they wrote the headlines I saw that there WAS a hurricane in the south-east of America and it was quite big.

I came on another website that was American to check another mailbox-on yahoo but their headlines mentioned some stupid things and no hurricane at all.So I decided to search for the information on yahoo and it turned out that there was a nurricane, yes, it was quite disastrous but IT TOOK ME 15 MINUTES OF ONLINE SEARCH TO KNOW THE INFORMATION ABOUT AMERICA THAT MY MOM KNEW FROM RUSSIAN NEWS WHILE HAVING HER EVENING MEAL AFTER WORK BEING IN RUSSIA.


If the information about the event that took place in the USA was unknown for most americans around me can you imagine how much information they got about the other countries.

So after doing some research I made the following conclusion:

America provides their citizens with information but to know this information they HAVE to look for it.There ar news channels  but to be able to read what happens in another state you have to pay for this catellite channel and to be interested in news.

If you don't have money to pay for catellite TV or you don't watch TV at all there's a big risk that you will not know about the main things that happen in your country because free channels avaivable for everyone who has a TV set will only tell about what happens in your state.

In Russia they put the MAIN news about the events in the world everywhere: papers, most TV channels have news, when you enter a website like mail.ru.

When I open mail.ru I can read about political and cultural events without having any desire to know them , only by entering the main page, when I do the same with yahoo I see featured headlines like:

-reasons why normally faithful men cheat
-seven simple menu dinners for the week
-tejano music star critically injured in crash-these are the biggest news to read

and if you want to know something about the world the news are in tiny letters just below the article about dinners.

It's a cultural difference:
in Russia being informed about the main events that take place in the wolrd is considered to be the thing that ANY educated person should know.

In America being informed about the main events in the world is a hobby like being informed about the models of cars, collecting antique things. To know about it you HAVE to be interested in this.

Otherwise the impression you will have will be based on what you see when you go to the cinema with friends or what you watch while eating pop corn on your sofa at home... and as you may see from my posts about the movies Hollywood isn't Russia's best friend

you say that you can see about the state of propaganda in Russia from my posts, I can see your american propaganda in your posts, in your stories when you meet your girls and ask if you have to bribe  to have a marriage certificate,these are ideas of people who still live in the past, no matter what they see they connect with something they saw or read long time ago.

[Serebro]

the same thing people have in schools

In Russian secondary or high schools children are taught the main things about the world that any educated person should know,the minimum, they can choose what they want to know more about later when they enter a university.

as for american children they have to be interested in something to know this. In Russia it's a shame not to know the main historical events about the world, it's a shame not to know biology, geography, in the USA you may not know about Charles Darwin theory just because you didn't choose biology as a major.If you didn't choose geography you may not know where Kazakhstan or India is...

I have seen educated americans college graduates who hadn't heard of the war with Napoleon or people who can see no difference between Poland and Russia...

[2tallbill]

the same thing people have in schools

In Russian secondary or high schools children are taught the main things about the world that any educated person should know,the minimum, they can choose what they want to know more about later when they enter a university.

as for american children they have to be interested in something to know this. In Russia it's a shame not to know the main historical events about the world, it's a shame not to know biology, geography, in the USA you may not know about Charles Darwin theory just because you didn't choose biology as a major.If you didn't choose geography you may not know where Kazakhstan or India is...

I have seen educated americans college graduates who hadn't heard of the war with Napoleon or people who can see no difference between Poland and Russia...

hmmmmmmmm........... I have been avoiding making a comment on this thread. I agree that American education
at the primary level is not up to the broad education standards that it should be (especially geography). I learned about many of these subjects due to my own desire to know them. 

As to your claims that there is a lot of propaganda in the US media (and Hollywood) that is against Russia and Russians I think that most here would agree with you. If you remember how we didn't trust the various people doing studies on seeking RW for marriage for example. There have been many threads on this site complaining about how Russians have been wrongly described by various media. I remember Dan actively argued with a famous talk show host and her outrageous depictions of RW and men who seek them.

Just my two kopecks,

Bill

[Jazzyclassy]

lmao, as soon as our western members lacked arguments they started remembering something that happened in 1974....

to those who say that an average american has access to a lot of news and different channels I will say the following. Yes, they do HAVE access, the main point if the WAY this information is given and if these americans want to know something that happens in the world and my impression is that they don't.

I will give you an example.

When I was in America I lived with an average american family, middle class one, we all went to work/study, came home, had dinner together and watched TV, etc...

life was fine, one day I called to my mom, she was very nervous and said that a couple of hours ago she came home from work and she watched the news on NTV and they said that there was some big hurricane in the south of America and that she was afraid that it would come to the place where I was, and so on...
I laughed and said to my mom that if there had been  something serious they would have informed us.

Later on that day I asked people with who I lived if they knew something about some hurricane in the south of America.They said no and went on watching some show.

I came online and on mail.ru where they wrote the headlines I saw that there WAS a hurricane in the south-east of America and it was quite big.

I came on another website that was American to check another mailbox-on yahoo but their headlines mentioned some stupid things and no hurricane at all.So I decided to search for the information on yahoo and it turned out that there was a nurricane, yes, it was quite disastrous but IT TOOK ME 15 MINUTES OF ONLINE SEARCH TO KNOW THE INFORMATION ABOUT AMERICA THAT MY MOM KNEW FROM RUSSIAN NEWS WHILE HAVING HER EVENING MEAL AFTER WORK BEING IN RUSSIA.


If the information about the event that took place in the USA was unknown for most americans around me can you imagine how much information they got about the other countries.

So after doing some research I made the following conclusion:

America provides their citizens with information but to know this information they HAVE to look for it.There ar news channels  but to be able to read what happens in another state you have to pay for this catellite channel and to be interested in news.

If you don't have money to pay for catellite TV or you don't watch TV at all there's a big risk that you will not know about the main things that happen in your country because free channels avaivable for everyone who has a TV set will only tell about what happens in your state.

In Russia they put the MAIN news about the events in the world everywhere: papers, most TV channels have news, when you enter a website like mail.ru.

When I open mail.ru I can read about political and cultural events without having any desire to know them , only by entering the main page, when I do the same with yahoo I see featured headlines like:

-reasons why normally faithful men cheat
-seven simple menu dinners for the week
-tejano music star critically injured in crash-these are the biggest news to read

and if you want to know something about the world the news are in tiny letters just below the article about dinners.

It's a cultural difference:
in Russia being informed about the main events that take place in the wolrd is considered to be the thing that ANY educated person should know.

In America being informed about the main events in the world is a hobby like being informed about the models of cars, collecting antique things. To know about it you HAVE to be interested in this.

Otherwise the impression you will have will be based on what you see when you go to the cinema with friends or what you watch while eating pop corn on your sofa at home... and as you may see from my posts about the movies Hollywood isn't Russia's best friend

you say that you can see about the state of propaganda in Russia from my posts, I can see your american propaganda in your posts, in your stories when you meet your girls and ask if you have to bribe  to have a marriage certificate,these are ideas of people who still live in the past, no matter what they see they connect with something they saw or read long time ago.

Da da da Serebro super post ! uraaaa

I agree with the fact that americans have that info which they want to know, if they are not interested in other states and moreover other countries they will stay without any info but they will keep telling they know everything about other countries , when they do not know what is happening in their neighbouring state ) that is just pure fun and joke

and our members here started talking about some propaganda , silly really

[Lit_1nce]

When I open mail.ru I can read about political and cultural events without having any desire to know them , only by entering the main page, when I do the same with yahoo I see featured headlines like:

-reasons why normally faithful men cheat
-seven simple menu dinners for the week
-tejano music star critically injured in crash-these are the biggest news to read

Sites like Yahoo, MSN,,  and Excite .. are what are called portal sites.. which most people use as their home page of whatever browser they are running.. many people do not realize that they can be customized to have the type of content you want.. if you don't want entertainment fluff.. you can remove a good part of it.. but the average "stock page" is going to have a large variety of topics to appeal to a wide variety of people... Myself I use CNN, and BBC web sites for news, and to search for something in particular I type in in Google, and then click the News link and get a list of recent stories about it... and for weather.. weather.com.. although my homepage (excite), is customized for the cities I want to know about, if I want to check elsewhere in the country or world, I use them.

But... I will say that I agree with you on most news coverage (talking TV now)  sometimes it is filled with a lot of smiley faced junk stories, and they ignore some real news.. or they all jump on a serious story and hammer it to death ignoring other things that are happening..  I watch some TV news, but for the most part I use the net for news.. it's less frustrating than waiting through several stupid stories to get to the one you want.

There is a saying.. "You don't make yourself look good by pointing out the other guys faults" .. and as Forest would say "That's all I got to say about that"

[krimster]

What?  You think Americans have NO knowledge of world affairs?

1. 74 million Americans have International passports, what's the number in Russia, maybe 10% of this, maybe even less, don't count your пропи́ска!
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2007-04-02-passport-record_N.htm

2. National Geographic, a publication SOLELY focused on world geography has over 5 million subscribers in the USA
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2007-04-02-passport-record_N.htm

I have traveled extensively in Russia and the majority of the people were TOTALLY ignorant of ANYTHING outside of Russia, what little information they had was based on the Government's propaganda machine which the people accept without question.

Soviet Facts (designed to help educate the masses of uninformed Americans)

Did you know that until 1969 all children born on a Soviet collective farm were forced by law to work there as adults unless they were specifically given permission to leave?

[AugustD]

Serebo,
Only recently have I commented on this site and it was a couple of times challenging your views.  With that I have to say that your post above spelling out your experience and opinion was really interesting and personally enjoyed it very much.  There are small points in there that I would question but I think it would take away from the overall gist of you post.  I agree that many Americans do choose to be ignorant to the world around them.  I also agree that you must seek out the information and news of the world.

I guess this is a difference between misinformation and "dis"information.  Propaganda is often both with a political motivation.  The sensationalizing of the US media is certainly no better but has a whole different set of evils.  I think most people here that are discussing with you are smart enough to overlook the absurdity of our media and find the facts.  We are fortunate that they are available for us.  In a society that media is controlled by government and propaganda is used then I am not so sure that those facts are always available or if they are they are misconstrued.  I am not a media expert nor a political expert so my opinion probably somewhat shallow.

Once again, I, for one, appreciated your above post.  It helps to understand ones opinions when they use such examples.

[BC]

When travelling or visiting another country you only see a very tiny slice of the 'pie'.

I cannot say I 'know' Italians inside and out, only a good bit about those I have contact with and a wee bit of conjecture about the rest.. and that's after 10 years.  Same for Germany after living there almost 20.

Northern Italians are a good bit different wrt mentality, ways of doing things, even eating than southern.  I would assume the differences can be even more extreme with a vast country such as RU.

That's why in conversations such as these it is wise to keep an open mind about the rest of 'em.  Folks I met and work with from FSU seem quite knowledgeable of worldly matters.

I attended high school for a short time in the US and was asked 'What kind of boat does your dad drive?' (think Venice) and 'How long did it take to drive here?' (think Atlantic).  I didn't extrapolate the 'geographical handicap' I found with few to the entire US population though.

[catzenmouse]

I attended high school for a short time in the US and was asked 'What kind of boat does your dad drive?' (think Venice) and 'How long did it take to drive here?' (think Atlantic).  I didn't extrapolate the 'geographical handicap' I found with few to the entire US population though.

BC here's another one for you that goes to show it doesn't take the difference of an ocean to display ignorance.

I lived in Nova Scotia for a time as a teenager and when we moved to Virginia I was asked (by a fellow high school student) where I came from. When I answered Nova Scotia they said: "Nova Scotia? What state is that in?"

It was all I could do to not burst out laughing at the magnitude of stupidity of that statement.

I lasted about 2 months at that school then moved by myself back to Canada where I lived for the next dozen or so years.

Ken

[I/O]

I lasted about 2 months at that school then moved by myself back to Canada where I lived for the next dozen or so years.

Ken

Perhaps that explains why you thought Kishinev was in Belarus? Now if you had only stayed in .....................nah, prolly wouldn't have made any difference.

I/O