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Author Topic: More Bad News for Russia  (Read 1075669 times)

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Offline Boethius

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More Bad News for Russia
« Reply #575 on: November 22, 2014, 10:20:04 PM »
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline LAman

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« Reply #576 on: November 22, 2014, 10:20:28 PM »
If someone confesses that they started a war during an interview I'd suspect that it was truth.

 That's his agenda not mine.  My POV wasn't asked for during that news piece. Was your's? :rolleyes:

Your POV is all over here!! My statement was in general. Fact is, I know exactly what you have written before I even read it. I understand why your emotional on the war in Ukraine....relax
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Offline LAman

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« Reply #577 on: November 22, 2014, 10:22:33 PM »
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.

If that was in regard to my post........my comparison was in secretly arming a people.
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Offline fathertime

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« Reply #578 on: November 22, 2014, 10:24:02 PM »
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.
They why are YOU making that comparison?  I didn't. 


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #579 on: November 22, 2014, 10:27:32 PM »
Interesting article I read.......the 2 articles here sum up things well I thought.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11
I think the opinions expressed in that link were well-reasoned.  Thanks for sharing them.


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #580 on: November 22, 2014, 10:36:37 PM »
They why are YOU making that comparison?  I didn't. 


Fathertime!


I have never made that comparison.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #581 on: November 22, 2014, 10:37:16 PM »
If that was in regard to my post........my comparison was in secretly arming a people.

If the US provides arms to Ukraine, I doubt it will be secretly.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #582 on: November 22, 2014, 10:45:43 PM »
Right and since there are currently 2 bills before Congress it's public knowledge.

Offline AC

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« Reply #583 on: November 23, 2014, 01:38:05 AM »
If that was in regard to my post........my comparison was in secretly arming a people.

While it's off topic, I will bite.  The USA armed Afghani's, who were fighting an invading army who illegally invaded Afghanistan.  Our efforts paid off -- the Soviet Union left Afganistan -- a country they had illegally invaded.  A nice side benefit was that their economy collapsed and their whole empire fell apart.

See any parallels to what is about to happen to Russia again, Einstein?

 :ROFL:

Offline AC

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« Reply #584 on: November 23, 2014, 01:43:40 AM »

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #585 on: November 23, 2014, 02:07:06 AM »
Ok besides Nicholas Cage that is! :crackwhip:

Offline AkMike

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« Reply #586 on: November 23, 2014, 02:25:40 AM »
I suppose that there is one more though. :rolleyes: And Huilostan

Offline Doll

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« Reply #587 on: November 23, 2014, 06:54:41 AM »

Offline Doll

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« Reply #588 on: November 23, 2014, 06:55:35 AM »
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.
The comparison is very valid

Online Faux Pas

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« Reply #589 on: November 23, 2014, 08:09:17 AM »


I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.

There wasn't anything covert about it. The US wasn't buying Russian made weapons. They were openly supplying the Afghans with small arms. It wasn't until the U.S. voted to and  supplied them with surface to air missiles that the war turned and help the Afghans defeat the Russians

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #590 on: November 23, 2014, 09:23:00 AM »
The comparison is very valid


Other than the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and Russia invaded Ukraine, in what way is the comparison valid?



After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Belvis

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« Reply #591 on: November 23, 2014, 09:38:21 AM »
The U.S. is not bombing Iran.

Sometimes, one has to take a stand.  The Donbas was overtaken by mercenaries and criminals, not locals who wanted separation.  There were few ways, short of military action, to deal with them.  When they were about to be defeated, Russia sent arms and troops.  Providing Ukrainians with equipment to defend themselves in such a situation is justifiable.
I agree that sending weapons in Ukraine is justifiable. Not much help really (without experts and servicemen) but justifiable.
However any thinking politician will see consequences.
1. Russia will send rebels military equipment of the same quality and in the same quantities. Besides Russia has option to send "consultants" to serve the weapons, I'm not sure US will be able to follow so far.
2. War will continue with higher intensity, and more Ukrainians will die at both sides. Boethius is mistaken saying about mercenaries and criminals, probably she takes info mainly from .uа resources. Locals are the core of militia there. Though now it's hard to call them Ukrainians.
3. Russia has canceled S-300 deal with Iran because of US opposition. Then Russia will feel herself free from any liabilities.

Mother Russia is watching :

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #592 on: November 23, 2014, 09:57:15 AM »
Quote
1. Russia will send rebels military equipment of the same quality and in the same quantities. Besides Russia has option to send "consultants" to serve the weapons, I'm not sure US will be able to follow so far.


Russia has done, and is doing this currently.  So, no change.
Quote
2. War will continue with higher intensity, and more Ukrainians will die at both sides. Boethius is mistaken saying about mercenaries and criminals, probably she takes info mainly from .uа resources. Locals are the core of militia there. Though now it's hard to call them Ukrainians.


There are still mercenary units (such as self proclaimed "Cossacks" and Chechens operating in Donbas.  Many of those left are indeed criminals. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Belvis

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« Reply #593 on: November 23, 2014, 10:08:11 AM »
Russia has done, and is doing this currently.  So, no change.

Yes, Russia provide weapons but of the same level as Ukrainian army uses. Change will be in mortality of soldiers, rebels and civilians.

Offline Gator

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« Reply #594 on: November 23, 2014, 10:42:03 AM »
Interesting article I read.......the 2 articles here sum up things well I thought.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11

The article Putin’s World: Why Russia’s Showdown with the West Will Worsen by Vitaliy Katsenelson is an excellent piece of journalism. 

Vitaly, born in Murmansk and today a highly accomplished financial analyst, went to an extreme to explain how Russian propaganda works.  He watched nothing but RT news for seven days, which is comparable to the Super Size Me film narrator who ate nothing but McDonalds for 30 days.  Vitaly emerged with some excellent insight into Russian propaganda. 

I really like the following conclusion, which perhaps explains the attitude of Russians in general, including at least woman we see at RWD:

"Russian TV is so potent that you would not even want to watch anything else, because you would be convinced that you were in possession of indisputable facts."    :D :( :D :( :D :(

Offline Gator

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« Reply #595 on: November 23, 2014, 11:05:43 AM »
While it's off topic, I will bite.  The USA armed Afghani's, who were fighting an invading army who illegally invaded Afghanistan.  Our efforts paid off -- the Soviet Union left Afganistan -- a country they had illegally invaded.  A nice side benefit was that their economy collapsed and their whole empire fell apart.

See any parallels to what is about to happen to Russia again, Einstein?

 :ROFL:

Huge difference between Ukraine, if we arm them, and Afghanistan in the 1980s.  We did not arm the Mujahideen to help Afghanistan obtain its freedom.  We armed them so 1) they would kill Soviets and 2) the Soviets would spend more money than they could afford, thus helping to collapse the CCCP.  Remember, we were in a 40-year, expensive, global cold war with the Soviet Union.   

The Congressman behind the arming of Afghanistan:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson_(Texas_politician)

The book (great read):  http://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Wilsons-War-Extraordinary-Congress/dp/B001GVJBPC

The film:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson's_War     

BTW, our efforts were followed by as much blowback as the Soviets sufferred, including OBL and the Taliban. 

Offline AC

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« Reply #596 on: November 23, 2014, 11:12:20 AM »
I know the history of our involvment in Afghanistan very well.  You might be surprised but it was Carter who started this involvement, at the advice of Brzizinski. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski


PS -- you seem to miss the parallel, of what is going to happen to Russia (the USSR and Russia today are very similar and I see them as the same, especially with Putin in charge); again.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 11:21:21 AM by AC »

Offline LAman

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« Reply #597 on: November 23, 2014, 12:16:49 PM »
While it's off topic, I will bite.  The USA armed Afghani's, who were fighting an invading army who illegally invaded Afghanistan.  Our efforts paid off -- the Soviet Union left Afganistan -- a country they had illegally invaded.  A nice side benefit was that their economy collapsed and their whole empire fell apart.

See any parallels to what is about to happen to Russia again, Einstein?

 :ROFL:

Let's try this one more time.......my comparison is SECRECTLY arming a people. I was not comparing situation between Ukraine to Afghanistan...... Who knows what is or will be done secretly.

Since I am Einstein......AC, you forgot to spell Afghanistan correctly both times....but I am sure you knew that already!! :)
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

Offline LAman

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« Reply #598 on: November 23, 2014, 12:27:05 PM »
The article Putin’s World: Why Russia’s Showdown with the West Will Worsen by Vitaliy Katsenelson is an excellent piece of journalism. 

Vitaly, born in Murmansk and today a highly accomplished financial analyst, went to an extreme to explain how Russian propaganda works.  He watched nothing but RT news for seven days, which is comparable to the Super Size Me film narrator who ate nothing but McDonalds for 30 days.  Vitaly emerged with some excellent insight into Russian propaganda. 

I really like the following conclusion, which perhaps explains the attitude of Russians in general, including at least woman we see at RWD:

"Russian TV is so potent that you would not even want to watch anything else, because you would be convinced that you were in possession of indisputable facts."    :D :( :D :( :D :(

Thanks for reading article Gator. I hope many here will find time to be enlightened with the analysis whether you agree or disagree. That painting was quite revealing!!
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

Offline AC

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« Reply #599 on: November 23, 2014, 12:33:53 PM »
Let's try this one more time.......my comparison is SECRECTLY arming a people. I was not comparing situation between Ukraine to Afghanistan...... Who knows what is or will be done secretly.

Since I am Einstein......AC, you forgot to spell Afghanistan correctly both times....but I am sure you knew that already!! :)

I don't think that arming the Muhadeen was done in secret in fact Reagan had some of them to the White House,
hardly a secret. 

You've yet to answer my opinion that Russia will yet again become a collapsed economy, because of their desire to invade yet another country for the purpose of stealing their lands.

 

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