It appears you have not registered with our community. To register please click here ...

!!

Welcome to Russian Women Discussion - the most informative site for all things related to serious long-term relationships and marriage to a partner from the Former Soviet Union countries!

Please register (it's free!) to gain full access to the many features and benefits of the site. Welcome!

+-

Author Topic: Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...  (Read 34442 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline calmissile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3236
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
It works in 1% of A-R marriages when people go for the second or third marriage with kids from their previous relationship.

This is so much B.S.   You don't have a clue how many are successful and neither does anyone else.  1%  I seriously doubt it.
 
There is NO way a woman in her 40's drops everything, goes to the US to marry a guy with a prenup and she will want nothing.

Happens every day whether you like it or not!

 I am not surpised AM (and Ed) applaud you because this is  exactly what they want- cheap or free wife.

Not really!  Cheap or free has nothing to do with it.  Perhaps finding a woman that knows how to love and treat a man as well as having a pleasant personality is more important than finances.  In any case it is not cheap.

More of your hatred toward prenups.  For your info, prenups protect the pre-marital assets of both parties.  Many FSU women have business interests and propery that should be protected for their sake also.  Futhermore, estate planning for the security of the wife can also be included in a pre-nup.
Perhaps you had nothing significant to require a prenup, it does not mean others are in the same boat.

Many AM are happily married to UA women with or without a prenup.  Your disdain toward AM shows in nearly every post.  For some reason you think every FSU woman is stupid to fall in love and immigrate to the US as well as being a victim.  You just cannot fathom the idea that two people can fall in love and have a happy marriage.

Give the sarcasm and negativity a rest for a while.


Doug (Calmissile)

Offline Doll

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4947
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
BS three times.
Not sure but sounds like Tulip is still in Ukraine wearing pink glasses.
 
 calmissile, sweetheart, please remind me what you mean by " a woman knows  how to love and treat the man".
 
Specifically when a woman has her own business outside the US and a daughter in colledge.
(Just to remind you- if you're rude to me, I will be rude back Не заржавеет :D )
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:19:13 PM by Doll »

Offline AnonMod

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 538
  • Country: 00
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: None (yet)
As has been posted elsewhere, all posters should refrain from advising others how, or what, to post.  If you have an issue, address the post, not the manner in which an idea is presented.
This account does NOT accept PM's. If you need to contact the RWD Staff, please use the 'Report to moderator' link.

Offline Doll

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4947
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Quote
Give the sarcasm and negativity a rest for a while.
It is a free country, besides it is approved by AnonMod now. :D :D :D
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 08:03:03 PM by Doll »

Offline Boethius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3072
  • Country: 00
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Quote
More of your hatred toward prenups.  For your info, prenups protect the
pre-marital assets of both parties.  Many FSU women have business interests and
propery that should be protected for their sake also.  Futhermore, estate
planning for the security of the wife can also be included in a pre-nup.

Perhaps you had nothing significant to require a prenup, it does not mean
others are in the same boat.

I disagree with this.  Prenups are there primarily to protect the interests of men marrying FSUW.  You show me an FSUW living in the the FSU who has assets equal in value to those of the man she is marrying, and I'll show you a woman who is not marrying a WM.  Further, prenups have no effect on FSUW in terms of protecting their assets in Russia/Ukraine.  Ukraine is a signatory to recipricol enforcement legislation, but there are typically very strict time limits for enforcement, and it is not an easy process, particularly in a country where a local knows who to bribe and resentment of Westerners does exist.  I don't know if Russia is a signatory to such legislation, but if so, I'd expect the situation to be similar.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 07:01:39 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline ML

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11661
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Boe, I am not very knowledgeable about this, so could you please comment on the part Cal wrote:

"Futhermore, estate planning for the security of the wife can also be included in a pre-nup."

Isn't this something of value for the woman?
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline ML

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11661
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Tulip, of course the AM members loved what you wrote.

Doll, count me out.

I don't love reading fairy tales written by someone with the mind of a  teenage princess wannabe.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline calmissile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3236
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10

I disagree with this.  Prenups are there primarily to protect the interests of men marrying FSUW.  You show me an FSUW living in the the FSU who has assets equal in value to those of the man she is marrying, and I'll show you a woman who is not marrying a WM.  Further, prenups have no effect on FSUW in terms of protecting their assets in Russia/Ukraine.  Ukraine is a signatory to recipricol enforcement legislation, but there are typically very strict time limits for enforcement, and it is not an easy process, particularly in a country where a local knows who to bribe and resentment of Westerners does exist.  I don't know if Russia is a signatory to such legislation, but if so, I'd expect the situation to be similar.

I think you missed the point.  A prenup in a California divorce will prevent the husband from claiming premarital assets of the wife regardless of where they are located.

Your comment about a FSU women would  not marry a AM if she had equal or greater assets is false.  We have members on the forum that have already done so.  In fact, in one case I don't think they even have a prenup.  They may not want to share their financial info with you , but there are cases refuting your comment right on the forum

I am not sure I understand your comment about prenups primarily protecting AM.  If fact, for young people with no large assets to protect, a pre-nup is not necessary.   In all of the community property states,  whatever wealth is accumulated during a marriage is split 50/50.  Unless one of the parties wants to waive those rights, there is no reason for a pre-nup.  As others have posted, such a waiver is likely to be overturned anyway.

Furthermore, unless the law has changed recently; premarital property is still off limits to the opposite spouse unless you have co-mingled the assets.  This is perhaps more important than a prenup for someone with substantial premarital assets.

The impression I get from some of you ladies is that most/many AM are going to throw their wives out into the street and penniless.  I don't buy it!   You can take some isolated cases and try to imply that it is the norm, but I have not seen it.  In fact, my Russian neighbor can tell you all kinds of stories where Russian women have taken advantage of AM.  In one case, a Russian doctor immigrated to the US and her husband put her through several years of medical college and she filed for divorce the day she received her US diplomas.   I don't believe that her behavior is the norm of FSU women any more than I believe the norm of AM is to throw out their wives and leave them penniless.
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline pitbull

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: None (yet)
I think you missed the point.  A prenup in a California divorce will prevent the husband from claiming premarital assets of the wife regardless of where they are located.


Furthermore, unless the law has changed recently; premarital property is still off limits to the opposite spouse unless you have co-mingled the assets.  This is perhaps more important than a prenup for someone with substantial premarital assets.


You contradict yourself in this post. If premarital property is off limits during divorce (and it is in every state), why would one need a prenup to prevent a spouse "from claiming premarital assets of another spouse regardless of where they are located."?
 Evidently, there is another reason. Since in 99% of cases it is a WM who insists on a pre-nup, and his premarital property is already protected by law in case of divorce, then he needs a prenup for one major reason - to make sure RW gets less during the divorce than a standard divorce proceeding would grant her. Simply, prenups are primarily to protect the ineterests of men marrying FSUW - just like Boe said  ;D
Be the person that your dog thinks you are

Offline LiveFromUkraine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3005
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: None (yet)
You contradict yourself in this post. If premarital property is off limits during divorce (and it is in every state), why would one need a prenup to prevent a spouse "from claiming premarital assets of another spouse regardless of where they are located."?
 Evidently, there is another reason. Since in 99% of cases it is a WM who insists on a pre-nup, and his premarital property is already protected by law in case of divorce, then he needs a prenup for one major reason - to make sure RW gets less during the divorce than a standard divorce proceeding would grant her. Simply, prenups are primarily to protect the ineterests of men marrying FSUW - just like Boe said  ;D




Why should a woman deserve premarital assets?  It isn't just the premarital assets but the increase of value of those premarital assets during a marriage that needs to be addressed.


A prenup doesn't just favor one person no matter how many times you and Doll try to make it sound like it.  If it does, it can be thrown out.


http://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/wife-of-millionaire-wins-unprecedented-case-to-overturn-prenup-agreement-182017682.html


« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 06:05:35 PM by LiveFromUkraine »

Offline calmissile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3236
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
You contradict yourself in this post. If premarital property is off limits during divorce (and it is in every state), why would one need a prenup to prevent a spouse "from claiming premarital assets of another spouse regardless of where they are located."?
 Evidently, there is another reason. Since in 99% of cases it is a WM who insists on a pre-nup, and his premarital property is already protected by law in case of divorce, then he needs a prenup for one major reason - to make sure RW gets less during the divorce than a standard divorce proceeding would grant her. Simply, prenups are primarily to protect the ineterests of men marrying FSUW - just like Boe said  ;D

As I recall, all states are not community property states.


Simply, prenups are primarily to protect the ineterests of men marrying FSUW
How do you figure this?  In community property states the wealth accumulated during the marriage is divided 50/50.  What more do you think someone deserves?
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline calmissile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3236
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10



Why should a woman deserve premarital assets?  It isn't just the premarital assets but the increase of value of those premarital assets during a marriage that needs to be addressed.

It's been a few years and maybe someone knows the current law, but at the time of my divorce, the value (up or down) of premarital assets did not matter as long as they were kept as 'seperate property' and not comingled.   After all, it would not make sense if the wife had to pony up money to compensate for a reduction in value of a premarital asset owned by the husband.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 06:18:37 PM by calmissile »
Doug (Calmissile)

Offline pitbull

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: None (yet)
As I recall, all states are not community property states.


Simply, prenups are primarily to protect the ineterests of men marrying FSUW
How do you figure this?  In community property states the wealth accumulated during the marriage is divided 50/50.  What more do you think someone deserves?
I am perfectly fine with the community property divorce laws. If they are that fare and simple, why do men from community property states insist on prenups?
Also, are you saying that premarital assets are subject to division in non-community property states?
Simply, why do men require prenups if divorce laws are fare in the United States?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 06:21:41 PM by pitbull »
Be the person that your dog thinks you are

Offline LiveFromUkraine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3005
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: None (yet)
I am perfectly fine with the community property divorce laws. If they are that fare and simple, why do men from community property states insist on prenups?
Also, are you saying that premarital assets are subject to division in non-community property states?
Simply, why do men require prenups if divorce laws are fare in the United States?


Why have any contracts for anything?

Offline pitbull

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: None (yet)

Why have any contracts for anything?
Because contracts (presumably business) are guided by contract law?
Just like divorces are guided by an extensive existing divorce law? When one party exists on a pre-nup it means that they want to get more in divorce than the existing divorce law would grant them? Why prenup if there are detailed guidilines on how a divorce is handled already?
Be the person that your dog thinks you are

Offline LiveFromUkraine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3005
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: None (yet)
Because contracts (presumably business) are guided by contract law?
Just like divorces are guided by an extensive existing divorce law? When one party exists on a pre-nup it means that they want to get more in divorce than the existing divorce law would grant them? Why prenup if there are detailed guidilines on how a divorce is handled already?

A prenup cannot be one sided.  I don't know why you continue to say it can.  I have just linked to a prenup thrown out for falsehood.

There are also probate laws yet people like to have wills.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 06:36:56 PM by LiveFromUkraine »

Offline calmissile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3236
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
I am perfectly fine with the community property divorce laws. If they are that fare and simple, why do men from community property states insist on prenups?

I cannot answer for other men.  Perhaps it is because sometimes the tear jerking in court results in awards that are not consistent with the law.

Also, are you saying that premarital assets are subject to division in non-community property states?

I don't know about non-community property states anymore.  A few years ago, those states had wildly different laws governing property division in divorce.

Simply, why do men require prenups if divorce laws are fare in the United States?

Because at divorce time the women and her lawyers try to get their hands on every nickle they can find!  At that point the intent of the law means nothing, only greed.

Doug (Calmissile)

Offline LiveFromUkraine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3005
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: None (yet)
Because at divorce time the women and her lawyers try to get their hands on every nickle they can find!  At that point the intent of the law means nothing, only greed.


This isn't just a woman thing.   Plenty of men try to screw over their wives.

Offline calmissile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3236
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
There are also probate laws yet people like to have wills.

Excellent example!

Doug (Calmissile)

Offline pitbull

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: None (yet)
Simply, why do men require prenups if divorce laws are fare in the United States?

Because at divorce time the women and her lawyers try to get their hands on every nickle they can find!  At that point the intent of the law means nothing, only greed.

presumably the woman has the right to get a share of every nickle accumulated in the course of marriage? And will not get more than the divorce law allows?
Do I understand correctly that you do not agree with the law on this and would need a prenup to ensure that she "doesn't get her hands" on a portion of marital assets that would otherwise be divided by existing divorce law?
So, a prenup IS afterall needed to protect a man's interests from the greedy FSUW?
Be the person that your dog thinks you are

Offline BillyB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16105
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: > 10


If premarital property is off limits during divorce (and it is in every state), why would one need a prenup to prevent a spouse "from claiming premarital assets of another spouse regardless of where they are located."?
 


I mentioned this earlier, prenups are good to prevent judges from favoring one side over another. The paper trail is usually good enough to show who owned the property before marriage but when an ugly divorce comes one spouse can twist things to make premarital property become community property.


Let's say you owned a house and rented it. You got married and got a prenup to state the house is solely yours in event of divorce. 3 years later you get divorced and husband says he provided manual labor fixing things on the home and cut the grass there. Community money was used to buy things to fix the home so the premarital home becomes community property. To counter you say the rent money was put in a community bank account so your husband ended up reaping the rewards of his labor.


Maybe the judge, being human, has flaws and is bias against women or maybe he doesn't like foreigners or just the way you look so he makes a ruling that your husband is entitled to a good percentage or even half the equity in your home. A prenup would have helped you make things fair in case you get a judge with biases.


Many people think Paulie has no good intentions with a prenup. If he has a business and a substantial amount of assets and money, it's smart for him to get a  prenup if it's fair according to state guidelines which protects him and his lady from leaving the marriage penniless. Other benefits are it protects their children's future too.


Plenty of men try to screw over their wives.


Most men do prefer to screw on top.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline BillyB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16105
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: > 10
I never met a more intelligent, kind, loving, tender, funny, sassy, fun-loving woman like her. 



For many men it's refreshing to meet a RW for the first time. They are different than what we're used to. They dress like women, look like women and have a sexy accent....but there are good ones and bad ones.


From what I read so far most people agree that it's important to take care of the woman in FSU culture. Also most people agree your lady has exhibited bad manners and behavior. To ask you to buy her an apartment twice is not a cultural thing but could be anything from bad manners to insincere intentions. Many people here feel it's the latter.


You stated you both love each other. Love doesn't solve all problems. Each time you two spend time together monitor her behavior. A person is at their ugliest during divorce. Don't tolerate ugly now for the sake of love.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline calmissile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3236
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
presumably the woman has the right to get a share of every nickle accumulated in the course of marriage? And will not get more than the divorce law allows?

In a community property state, this is the intent.
However, Larry1 gave a great example of what can happen in real life in our courts.  Prior to the case he cited, property division was between married couples getting a divorce, not shack jobs.  In this case a  good lawyer and liberal judges MADE LAW, rather than the legislature (who is supposed to make law).  The result was the 'Palimony' ruling that allowed people shacking up to have the same rights to property division as married couples.  You can imagine the furor it caused.  Many men threw out their girlfriends and many men started the big move to Pre-nups before letting someone move in. 
The reason I bring this up is to supplement BillyB's post.  You cannot depend on our courts to follow the law.  If a judge is biased and does not like the law, he will ignore it or make a ruling that is contrary to the existing law.  It goes uphill to the supreme court where more judges apply their biases.  Unfortunately it does not get kicked back to the legislature where the laws should be modified if our elected officials thought it necessary.  In my opinion judges have way too much power.  It is a flaw in our system IMHO.

I think it was Billy's point that regardless of  what the law says in print, there is no guarantee that judges will be unbiased and follow the written law.

I thought of another example for you in favor of prenups.  Just like the unmarried couples prior to 'Palimony', the law can change during a long term marriage. 
What if during a long term marriage, the law changed to favor one party or the other? You got married under one set of laws and all of a sudden the law changed.  As I recall pre-nups in California are considered Contract Law, not marriage law.  This might have changed, but it is what people did that wanted a stable set of rules throughout the marriage or relationship.   I hope this answers some of your concerns.

Do I understand correctly that you do not agree with the law on this and would need a prenup to ensure that she "doesn't get her hands" on a portion of marital assets that would otherwise be divided by existing divorce law?

No, of course not.  The portion of marital assets that would otherwise be divided by existing divorce law? are already covered in the community property states.  Protecting oneself from her getting 'seperate, pre-marital' property is the main reason for pre-nups.  It identifies the seperate property and makes it more clear what is exempt from community property.


So, a prenup IS afterall needed to protect a man's interests from the greedy FSUW?

It may be important for either party to prevent pre-marital assets from being claimed by the other party.  It works equally for both sexes.        ;D

Doug (Calmissile)

Offline pitbull

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: None (yet)


So are you getting a prenup?
Be the person that your dog thinks you are

Offline Doll

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4947
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Doll, count me out.

I don't love reading fairy tales written by someone with the mind of a  teenage princess wannabe.
Ok, you're out  :D
Women like Tulip basically tell you (or men)what you (men) want to hear. She probably does believe in it somehow but wait till she faces the reality.
You guys go and read RW forum.

 

+-RWD Stats

Members
Total Members: 8883
Latest: Leroy14
New This Month: 1
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 541000
Total Topics: 20849
Most Online Today: 2013
Most Online Ever: 12701
(January 14, 2020, 07:04:55 AM)
Users Online
Members: 11
Guests: 1890
Total: 1901

+-Recent Posts

Re: If you don't know what you are talking about, post away anyway by 2tallbill
Today at 09:18:17 AM

Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by krimster2
Today at 07:00:25 AM

Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by Brillynt
Today at 06:16:36 AM

Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by krimster2
Yesterday at 09:20:42 PM

Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by Infoman
Yesterday at 09:12:54 PM

Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by krimster2
Yesterday at 09:02:12 PM

American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by Infoman
Yesterday at 08:45:42 PM

Re: What to do by Trenchcoat
Yesterday at 07:59:27 PM

Ukrainian refugee working for me now by ML
Yesterday at 07:04:53 PM

Ukrainian refugee working for me now by ML
Yesterday at 06:59:45 PM

Powered by EzPortal

create account