Hello guys!

[msmob]

Davo is doing his best, and even if his suggestion might not apply to me, it's definitely not a bad idea to do what he's doing. Like I said, it can't hurt, right? The thing is, most of the conversation between me and my girl happens on video... and on our phones. I do have a screen recording app I could use, but man... would I put the videos on youtube in a private shared mode and give the link to border patrol? Would I supply the videos on a DVD disc? Come on...

Davo hasn't taken offence and I can see his intentions are well meant !))

So when I say - you've GOT to stop thinking how the UK visa process should be ( we've all been there ) and realise how it is ... you're going to make a plan that will surely get you what you want.

You keep telling us what you won't do and why - and we're telling you ..if you don't - you won't get what you want, mate .....  How do we help you break that circle ?

[Trenchcoat]

Trench is too funny, you guys.
I've been talking to friends about how people's own insecurities blind them to stuff.
They take whatever it is they're watching or reading, and they give it any meaning they want, all based on their own issues. Sad.

You say the competition is STIFF in the UK?

You should go to Brazil to see what stiff competition really is. Psh!!

Davo is doing his best, and even if his suggestion might not apply to me, it's definitely not a bad idea to do what he's doing. Like I said, it can't hurt, right? The thing is, most of the conversation between me and my girl happens on video... and on our phones. I do have a screen recording app I could use, but man... would I put the videos on youtube in a private shared mode and give the link to border patrol? Would I supply the videos on a DVD disc? Come on...

In all honesty the girl I was with last was almost 15 years younger than me and looked like a model in some respects so what most guys would deem around a 10. I did not aim for this she contacted me in the initial out set. I think she wants a guy that can afford her lots of fashion clothing, whether she is into me on top of that is kind of obscured because of this. The relationship was kind of like the premise to the first series of 'Homeland' - a badie or good one (except she was female and it was dating stuff). I accept now after posters on here have told me stuff that I may have taken some things the wrong way such as her materialism. Many guys think as I do and not at all keen on materialistic girls.

What is your girl like Rod? What are your comparative ages roughly? Are there any issues between the two of you or with her? Since you've only spent a week together what are your impressions of her?

[GM_Rod]

Davo hasn't taken offence and I can see his intentions are well meant !))

So when I say - you've GOT to stop thinking how the UK visa process should be ( we've all been there ) and realise how it is ... you're going to make a plan that will surely get you what you want.

You keep telling us what you won't do and why - and we're telling you ..if you don't - you won't get what you want, mate .....  How do we help you break that circle ?

Well, I've explained this but I'll do it again, I will even rephrase: It's not that I don't want to go to Russia. The issue is that I CAN'T.
I'm in the middle of getting a job here. When this comes through, it will be a year before I can take a break. So that's one reason.
Second reason is, the expenses involved in going there, would be much better spent on getting her here, and paying for her studies. These are comparable costs, almost the same really. I've been in Russia and I know how much I'd pay for an apartment there that suits my tastes. I even got as far as contacting the same person who hosted me last time (AirBNB). She's now selling the apartment so she can no longer host there. But it's irrelevant, since as I stated, I can't go there.
And, even if I did, I don't believe that would "build up" the relationship enough to make a different to border patrol. 1 week together 2 years ago is not much different than 1 week and 1 month together with 2 years in between. You guys have to agree to that.
Also, she's working too. If I went there, I'd spend most of the day doing nothing at home waiting for her to get off work. Whereas if she's here and I'm working, she's studying so our time is not so wasted.
We need to work on getting her here on a student visa taking my trip to Russia off the table.

[GM_Rod]

In all honesty the girl I was with last was almost 15 years younger than me and looked like a model in some respects so what most guys would deem around a 10. I did not aim for this she contacted me in the initial out set. I think she wants a guy that can afford her lots of fashion clothing, whether she is into me on top of that is kind of obscured because of this. The relationship was kind of like the premise to the first series of 'Homeland' - a badie or good one (except she was female and it was dating stuff). I accept now after posters on here have told me stuff that I may have taken some things the wrong way such as her materialism. Many guys think as I do and not at all keen on materialistic girls.

What is your girl like Rod? What are your comparative ages roughly? Are there any issues between the two of you or with her? Since you've only spent a week together what are your impressions of her?

Ok Trench, now we're getting into some real talk here.

I am actually very good with relationship advice, hence why ALL of my friends come to me for it.

As soon as you figured out your girl is after high fashion and a guy who can afford that, if that's her first priority then that is a MAJOR RED FLAG. RUN.

My girl is simple. She's super shy (this is why I have a LOT of pictures from the trip to Russia and she isn't in any of them).
She doesn't talk a lot, but a big reason for that is because her English is still poor so she lacks the confidence to speak English. It also bothers her that she's impressed by what I do and my intelligence etc, so this puts even more pressue on her, she is always scared that when she speaks English, she'll say something wrong and I'll think less of her for it.
But she also loves it when I correct and teach her, so that's ok.
She's definitely not the high fashion type, I could tell by how she dressed (but that was also very much affected by her not having a lot of money. When she's here I will definitely help with that).

[Sting23]

hey Rod how long were you in Russia that time?  I worked in the Moscow area twice for a few months each time.  I build up a social circle the normal way, meeting people in real life. 

Trench and many others here do "trips" to Russia, Ukraine for the sole purpose of finding a girl.  That's probably why he is more worried about a girl scamming him.  The women they contact with online are much different from if you went there and met someone normally even as a tourist.

[msmob]

Well, I've explained this but I'll do it again, I will even rephrase: It's not that I don't want to go to Russia. The issue is that I CAN'T.
I'm in the middle of getting a job here. When this comes through, it will be a year before I can take a break. So that's one reason.
Second reason is, the expenses involved in going there, would be much better spent on getting her here, and paying for her studies. These are comparable costs, almost the same really. I've been in Russia and I know how much I'd pay for an apartment there that suits my tastes. I even got as far as contacting the same person who hosted me last time (AirBNB). She's now selling the apartment so she can no longer host there. But it's irrelevant, since as I stated, I can't go there.
And, even if I did, I don't believe that would "build up" the relationship enough to make a different to border patrol. 1 week together 2 years ago is not much different than 1 week and 1 month together with 2 years in between. You guys have to agree to that.
Also, she's working too. If I went there, I'd spend most of the day doing nothing at home waiting for her to get off work. Whereas if she's here and I'm working, she's studying so our time is not so wasted.
We need to work on getting her here on a student visa taking my trip to Russia off the table.

I'm sorry that you thought you felt the need to repeat all that ...

I and others have already made it pretty clear that

1/ you WILL NOT get this lass in on a study visa - if you are the host

2/ you WILL NOT get this lass in without six months of bank statements and the funds to pay for the course and accommodation arranged by the institution

3/ it is MUCH cheaper to meet - demonstrate the relationship and THEN try to apply as her host.

OR go the IRL route ... but you'll still have to prove a RELATIONSHIP - and that you have suitable accommodation - but there'll be no questions as to her finances ... and less about yours

Sorry ((

[GM_Rod]

hey Rod how long were you in Russia that time?  I worked in the Moscow area twice for a few months each time.  I build up a social circle the normal way, meeting people in real life. 

Trench and many others here do "trips" to Russia, Ukraine for the sole purpose of finding a girl.  That's probably why he is more worried about a girl scamming him.  The women they contact with online are much different from if you went there and met someone normally even as a tourist.

I went to Ukraine first for a month, with the sole purpose of meeting girls, yes. But I was smart about it. Scheduled like 10 meetings, most in different cities. This served a double purpose: I really got to see the country, and the risk of running into a girl while being on a date with another girl became nullified.

The Russia trip was more focused, I went there mostly to see this girl I'm talking to now. But her situation, as I stated, was bad. Her mother was really crampin' our style, that's why we only spent a week together and she never even went to my apartment while I was there.  I spent an extra two weeks there though. Most of that time I spent doing touristy things. Went to the cathedrals, went to St. Petersburg and all that.

[GM_Rod]

I'm sorry that you thought you felt the need to repeat all that ...

I and others have already made it pretty clear that

1/ you WILL NOT get this lass in on a study visa - if you are the host

2/ you WILL NOT get this lass in without six months of bank statements and the funds to pay for the course and accommodation arranged by the institution

3/ it is MUCH cheaper to meet - demonstrate the relationship and THEN try to apply as her host.

OR go the IRL route ... but you'll still have to prove a RELATIONSHIP - and that you have suitable accommodation - but there'll be no questions as to her finances ... and less about yours

Sorry ((

1- We will see about that

2- I have every intention of providing the 6 months

3- What part of "I can't go to Russia" don't you understand?

And what do you mean IRL? This IS IRL nowadays. You know that over 70% of ALL relationships start online, right?
But me and her already spent time together in person which is already a step up considering how things go nowadays. Our friend Davo here hasn't met his girl in person yet! Which is the norm!

[Boethius]

Relationships may now start online, although I doubt it’s at 70%, but most of those relationships are between people in the same country.

[lyndontom]

1- We will see about that

If you try to circumvent the regulations, you will get caught out. As per the sage advice you've been given here, you need all your ducks in a row. Better to be fore-armed and over-prepared than to think that you'll be able to skim over key information and not get found out, or your story will naturally unravel. The guys here have told you some of the evidence they've been asked to prepare - or to at least have ready access to and rely on if needed. If they suspect a red flag, or that something doesn't quite add up, you can expect a rejection and they won't be babysitting you through the process, you can be sure of that.


Nobody is trying to batter you here Rod, but to make you aware of the reality of the process. You certainly might try and get lucky - but if you've invested heavily into the process and don't succeed, you won't be able to go back and take a more logical route you should have taken to begin with.


Trench - not everyone shares your insecurities here. If we did, we wouldn't bother starting and enduring this long process. Are you going to lock your potential future wife in the house and force her to have your babies, never to meet anyone in the outside world? C'mon man, please. Where in the UK are you? I cannot believe for a second this isn't a troll!

[msmob]

1- We will see about that

Rod, just to confirm - you don't 'offend' me or anyone by confirming you won't listen to those who have the experience - that you don't - I / we just can even understand understand why - we have - in one way or another 'been there' .. 

If you can pull this off - be sure to tell us .

2- I have every intention of providing the 6 months

To be clear I refer to 'HER' records - of which there are currently none..

3- What part of "I can't go to Russia" don't you understand?

I did not suggest you going to Russia - but I AM suggesting you must meet - to prove a relationship - it is an investment and will SAVE you money - as you'll be able to accommodate her.. We understand money doesn't grow on trees and you need to work - a long weekend or two in a third country.. ? Cyprus -is esy as you simply sign a form acknowledging you'll be responsible for her.. 

And what do you mean IRL? This IS IRL nowadays. You know that over 70% of ALL relationships start online, right?

You told me you understood English better than many ... IRL is the international code for Ireland  - the Republic of..


Your meeting - if it is as described - helps - only if you have more .. it was too long ago

If you will not leave the UK to meet her in a third nation - you really can forget her coming to the UK ((

[kynrazor]

1- We will see about that

2- I have every intention of providing the 6 months

If she comes to the UK to study, then she has to show to immigration she is only here to study. Nothing more.

Any mention of relationships or working part-time or full-time will arouse suspicion and make it more difficult for her to get into the UK, either at the visa application stage, or at the border where she could be detained for further questioning.

[msmob]

If she comes to the UK to study, then she has to show to immigration she is only here to study. Nothing more.

Any mention of relationships or working part-time or full-time will arouse suspicion and make it more difficult for her to get into the UK, either at the visa application stage, or at the border where she could be detained for further questioning.

OK, I may misunderstand.. but you are not correct

If Rod has proven he is paying and providing her accommodation - and satisfied the Visa officer ( bank statements, etc., ) this will not happen

This could only happen if - when questioned - his g/f and Rod's story as to the circumstances used to get a visa were not true.

It is NOT a 'negative' to the UK authorities to suggest a relationship - if it is demonstrable - and supported by proof of support - it is a 'positive'

Such a Visa can only be used if the study is taking place and continues to take place

For sure it does not allow, work or ( say) getting married and continued residency

[GM_Rod]

I don't want to circumvent anything. I want to be correct about it.
If I was about breaking laws and stuff, I'd have stayed in the US as an illegal, like a lot of my friends did. I'm not about that life.

Ok I know 70% was a little high, but:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/105558-online-dating-is-the-second-most-popular-way-to-meet-someone-says-new-study-and-more
http://www.eharmony.co.uk/dating-advice/online-dating-unplugged/over-50-of-couples-will-meet-online-by-2031#.WmjCJqhl--Y
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/online-dating/10107800/Why-online-love-is-more-likely-to-last.html

I could post more... but three are enough.

I AM listening. Everything you guys are saying is making me rethink many parts of the process. I just haven't seen any argument that makes me feel like for example, going to Russia would help (not that I CAN anyway).

As for English... not getting one little abbreviation, doesn't represent a lot about my understanding of English as a language, I don't think.
Hell, just look at my writing. It's impeccable. It wasn't a surprise when I scored maximum on all the IELTS tests I took. Academic and General (IELTS was a requirement for Canada). And, Ireland is an even worse suggestion than going to Russia... Although I appreciate you guys making an effort to blurt out every possible idea you have.

Anyway... let's keep the brainstorms going. I'm having fun too!

Thanks people!

[lyndontom]

I don't want to circumvent anything. I want to be correct about it.
If I was about breaking laws and stuff, I'd have stayed in the US as an illegal, like a lot of my friends did. I'm not about that life.

What you're trying to do is manufacture and squeeze your circumstances to fit into the process of a acquiring student visa because it's what you regard as the most straightforward way of meeting your aims of getting her into the UK.


Let's be honest about it - the start of this was never her desire to come here to study, then as a secondary thought followed your desire to be with her, right? It was the other way around. You want to get her here and found a round-about way of looking to achieve that aim. That's what my definition of circumvention is, at least in the context of this scenario. I'm not saying your plan is entirely flawed, but the process to go through is rigorous so your explanations need to be plausible and consistent. 

[Trenchcoat]

My girl is simple. She's super shy (this is why I have a LOT of pictures from the trip to Russia and she isn't in any of them).
She doesn't talk a lot, but a big reason for that is because her English is still poor so she lacks the confidence to speak English. It also bothers her that she's impressed by what I do and my intelligence etc, so this puts even more pressue on her, she is always scared that when she speaks English, she'll say something wrong and I'll think less of her for it.
But she also loves it when I correct and teach her, so that's ok.
She's definitely not the high fashion type, I could tell by how she dressed (but that was also very much affected by her not having a lot of money. When she's here I will definitely help with that).

Yeah know what you mean Rod these Russian peasant girls need clothing & feeding from day one. Virtually in rags when you meet them

Seriously though it's fine to buy them some decent stuff but be careful not to westernise her or get her accustomed to buying fashion brand stuff. If she learns to be materialistic you're making a rod for your own back. By the sounds of it she sounds a good choice so don't go overboard on trying to change her too much. Guys on here have had women in the past who are all shy & sedate only for them to end up getting too big for their boots often as a guy trying to advance them and in doing so advanes her beyond his level. Talk to Moby on this one that's the way his last relationship went

The not having any pictures with her in and/or the two of you is a problem. Showing a relationship without any photos of the two of you together basically dooms any thought of this route into the UK. Border control will want to see documentation not just photos in order to prove a relationship but they will in all likelihood want to see photos also. So you really are down to her being a student of her own back. The idea of you providing the accomodation on record is still a worrying one. Your in Manchester so accommodation is not nearly as expensive as London there. Instead of Uni halls maybe look for a cheap room for her somewhere which is often far cheaper than student halls. Then this will be less money to foward to her. If this is not a goer then think of some other arrangement you might be able to fix up for accomodation where you will not need to show up on the visa form I'm thinking.

Put it this way the first girl I met in Ukraine there was no chemistry with but we got on well. She was a modest type of girl. Even still I have photos of her & us together during our week & outings together in Kiev. So it's kind of a strange one for someone that was into you, a girl refusing photos would make me wonder if she was into me.

[ML]

why not stick to any FACTUAL info

What?  And eliminate most of the 7 pages that have been posted so far!

[GM_Rod]

What you're trying to do is manufacture and squeeze your circumstances to fit into the process of a acquiring student visa because it's what you regard as the most straightforward way of meeting your aims of getting her into the UK.


Let's be honest about it - the start of this was never her desire to come here to study, then as a secondary thought followed your desire to be with her, right? It was the other way around. You want to get her here and found a round-about way of looking to achieve that aim. That's what my definition of circumvention is, at least in the context of this scenario. I'm not saying your plan is entirely flawed, but the process to go through is rigorous so your explanations need to be plausible and consistent.

Well, ok I'll give you that one.

My line of thinking is: We want to spend time together. I actually talked to her about going there. We decided that her coming here was best.
After that, I realized going there was also bad because I'll have a job soon. Ok.
So first, I looked at the visitor visa. Then after reading what's posted here and a lot of other stuff, I saw that one, although the best, is actually the hardest.
So then, I connected the fact that her English is not very good, to the fact that the student visa is easier. And to the fact that most schools here view this sort of thing as a business which would give them a genuine interest in helping out getting her here.
So in that way, it is a circumvention, BUT it's still a genuine one... she does want to study here... She just hadn't thought of that before I mentioned it to her. She was just thinking about being with me :-)

[GM_Rod]

Yeah know what you mean Rod these Russian peasant girls need clothing & feeding from day one. Virtually in rags when you meet them

Seriously though it's fine to buy them some decent stuff but be careful not to westernise her or get her accustomed to buying fashion brand stuff. If she learns to be materialistic you're making a rod for your own back. By the sounds of it she sounds a good choice so don't go overboard on trying to change her too much. Guys on here have had women in the past who are all shy & sedate only for them to end up getting too big for their boots often as a guy trying to advance them and in doing so advanes her beyond his level. Talk to Moby on this one that's the way his last relationship went

The not having any pictures with her in and/or the two of you is a problem. Showing a relationship without any photos of the two of you together basically dooms any thought of this route into the UK. Border control will want to see documentation not just photos in order to prove a relationship but they will in all likelihood want to see photos also. So you really are down to her being a student of her own back. The idea of you providing the accomodation on record is still a worrying one. Your in Manchester so accommodation is not nearly as expensive as London there. Instead of Uni halls maybe look for a cheap room for her somewhere which is often far cheaper than student halls. Then this will be less money to foward to her. If this is not a goer then think of some other arrangement you might be able to fix up for accomodation where you will not need to show up on the visa form I'm thinking.

Put it this way the first girl I met in Ukraine there was no chemistry with but we got on well. She was a modest type of girl. Even still I have photos of her & us together during our week & outings together in Kiev. So it's kind of a strange one for someone that was into you, a girl refusing photos would make me wonder if she was into me.

I actually WAS very suspicious of that!!!!

But one of the first things she told me when we got back in touch, was that she regrets that and she spent quite some time apologizing for doing that and also for disappearing and all that. So we'll see how the new meeting in person develops.

[msmob]

Supplying photos together is meaningless to support an application - in the case of UK, at least

FAR better to support a relationship status with bookings confirming staying travel to be together - boarding cards - even better - and who paid for the travel

THE most important thing is to show financial support from you and her earning 

[kynrazor]

OK, I may misunderstand.. but you are not correct

If Rod has proven he is paying and providing her accommodation - and satisfied the Visa officer ( bank statements, etc., ) this will not happen

This could only happen if - when questioned - his g/f and Rod's story as to the circumstances used to get a visa were not true.

It is NOT a 'negative' to the UK authorities to suggest a relationship - if it is demonstrable - and supported by proof of support - it is a 'positive'

Such a Visa can only be used if the study is taking place and continues to take place

For sure it does not allow, work or ( say) getting married and continued residency

Generally for a student visa, if their course is longer than 6 months, they're allowed to work part-time a maximum of 20 hours a week, with the permission of their sponsor (the school, college etc). Otherwise, you're right msmob.

Yes you're correct msmob, declaring a relationship is not necessarily a negative in the visa application or interviews but as I stated, it does raise suspicion for officers to warrant further questioning.

I don't think it's usual (typical) at all to have a Russian woman enter the UK for the first time, using a student visa and saying she is here to study whilst already having a "boyfriend" in the UK. It's bound to raise more concerns with the immigration officers who will suspect she will have strong reasons for settling here in the UK and not go back at all. Quite likely, she will be asked further for proof of her relationship with Rod, which kind-of defeats Rod's purpose for using the student route to circumvent proving his relationship with her. It complicates things.

IF they decide to go the student route, I'll rather they declare themselves as just friends to immigration only if they are asked. Then it doesn't actually matter it's been two years since they last met. Less reasons for the officers to have suspicions that she may want to over-stay illegally with Rod.

[kynrazor]

Well, ok I'll give you that one.

My line of thinking is: We want to spend time together. I actually talked to her about going there. We decided that her coming here was best.
After that, I realized going there was also bad because I'll have a job soon. Ok.
So first, I looked at the visitor visa. Then after reading what's posted here and a lot of other stuff, I saw that one, although the best, is actually the hardest.
So then, I connected the fact that her English is not very good, to the fact that the student visa is easier. And to the fact that most schools here view this sort of thing as a business which would give them a genuine interest in helping out getting her here.
So in that way, it is a circumvention, BUT it's still a genuine one... she does want to study here... She just hadn't thought of that before I mentioned it to her. She was just thinking about being with me :-)

Just a continuation of my thoughts from my previous post above, on this thread.

That said, first time is always the hardest, Rod. If she gets through successfully the first time, and leaves the UK without any violations, it will get easier for her to enter the UK the second time!

All the best. 

[Trenchcoat]

Supplying photos together is meaningless to support an application - in the case of UK, at least

FAR better to support a relationship status with bookings confirming staying travel to be together - boarding cards - even better - and who paid for the travel

THE most important thing is to show financial support from you and her earning

Unless there is something to tie it all together - her with him - it is meaningless, it could have all been for tourism to Moscow for all the Immigration/Border official knows.

[Trenchcoat]

I actually WAS very suspicious of that!!!!

But one of the first things she told me when we got back in touch, was that she regrets that and she spent quite some time apologizing for doing that and also for disappearing and all that. So we'll see how the new meeting in person develops.

A lot of this stuff is handy to know right at or near the beginning of your thread before responses become forthcoming as I think we can agree that we have learnt a lot more about you & your relationship with this girl as the thread has gone on. Some but not all of this information can be relevant to the type of action you need to take in order to get her in the country.

The type of information here I would say consider the relationship in your mind now. Is there mutual chemistry between the two of you? Was this apparent when you met? Did you kiss? (not including welcome & goodbye peck on the cheek, lol) Did you hold hands/arms or each other? Was there any sign of affection? Did you meet her parents, Mother and what was their reaction to you? Did she meet or see you off at the airport or train station? What did you read of her body language towards you - any points of concern?, etc.

All of this you should think of and would be handy for us to know in order to help you more. At the moment it kinds of sounds that there was a fairly placid relationship. It sounds strange to me from this placid relationship that she later calls you back with regrets - she has put forward reasons for this as you explained but I think it sounds strange none the less. I do wonder if it would be handy if you were just to take even along weekend out to see her, read what you can and find out how you feel for each other. After all you have a Brazilian passport so no visa is necessary. Although only a short visit even this will help out your case if focus were ever to shine on your relationship with her. Oh, and this time take photos of the two of you    

[kynrazor]

A lot of this stuff is handy to know right at or near the beginning of your thread before responses become forthcoming as I think we can agree that we have learnt a lot more about you & your relationship with this girl as the thread has gone on. Some but not all of this information can be relevant to the type of action you need to take in order to get her in the country.

The type of information here I would say consider the relationship in your mind now. Is there mutual chemistry between the two of you? Was this apparent when you met? Did you kiss? (not including welcome & goodbye peck on the cheek, lol) Did you hold hands/arms or each other? Was there any sign of affection? Did you meet her parents, Mother and what was their reaction to you? Did she meet or see you off at the airport or train station? What did you read of her body language towards you - any points of concern?, etc.

All of this you should think of and would be handy for us to know in order to help you more. At the moment it kinds of sounds that there was a fairly placid relationship. It sounds strange to me from this placid relationship that she later calls you back with regrets - she has put forward reasons for this as you explained but I think it sounds strange none the less. I do wonder if it would be handy if you were just to take even along weekend out to see her, read what you can and find out how you feel for each other. After all you have a Brazilian passport so no visa is necessary. Although only a short visit even this will help out your case if focus were ever to shine on your relationship with her. Oh, and this time take photos of the two of you    

Trench, I think you're overthinking it a tad.  Just let Rod do his thing and let the relationship & chemistry blossom if fate allows. 

If I'm not mistaken yes Rod's met the lass' mother already.

Quote from fellow poster BillyB:"Paranoia will Destroya"