Ukraine-The Future

[The Natural]

Ohhh, everything's sooo black and white. So Crimea is a cesspool of corruption and dog shit?  I don't know anything about Crimean corruption, nor western corruption for that matter, first hand. But I do know they exist. I've been 3 times to Crimea and never had any problems at all. Nothing, nada, ingenting. I'm sure they noticed I was a foreigner, but nobody tried to rob me or scam me. At the most a couple of beggars on the pedestrian street which is of course unheard of here in the affluent west. But otherwise all well.

[krimster2]

Mr Natural,

One of my cousins did a tour of duty in Vietnam with the 173rd Airborne Brigade during the peak of the Vietnam war, and after serving a year he came back safe and sound without a scratch, therefor Vietnam during the height of the Vietnam war was a perfectly safe country by your logical reasoning, oh I ponder the possibilities when a wit such as your yours is turned loose to reflect upon all the events of the natural world, perhaps you will deduce that the wind is caused by the trees moving back and forth in unison, who knows what festering puzzle of nature you will once and decisively answer for a world not as blessed with an intellect as savagely perceptive as your own.  Allow me one last “tale of woe” for you to ponder about life in Sevastopol, one that as a tourist you would not encounter.  I used to walk my youngest daughter to her school, and after seeing her safely inside, I would proceed to the playground outside of her class room and remove from my pocket a plastic garbage bag and walk throughout the playground and pick up the empty and broken beer and vodka bottles and place them in the garbage bag along with an occasional used syringe or two and drop them in the garbage bin, and of course repeating it again the next day, Mondays of course were the busiest.  You as a tourist, would be oblivious to this scene,  but how could I be, and call myself the protector of my child?  This is the difference between your experience and mine, please don’t tell me you know Sevastopol, based on your 3 short visits, YOU DON’T!

[The Natural]

Mr Natural,

oh I ponder the possibilities when a wit such as your yours is turned loose to reflect upon all the events of the natural world, perhaps you will deduce that the wind is caused by the trees moving back and forth in unison, who knows what festering puzzle of nature you will once and decisively answer for a world not as blessed with an intellect as savagely perceptive as your own.  please don’t tell me you know Sevastopol, based on your 3 short visits, YOU DON’T!

Oh, personal insults disguised as poem, how rich. Allow me an eloquent response as a show of good will between a man and a fool; I detect a homosexual here. I know, my wife make me turn away when they show movies of homo content, but something sticks and threre's just something gay about Your wording there that puke's me out.

please don’t tell me you know Sevastopol, based on your 3 short visits, YOU DON’T!

I didn't say I know Sevastopol. I've never been to the Place, duh! I said I've been to CRIMEA 3 times. Places like Simferopol, Koktebel, Kerch. Bus rides, trips to the city centre and to the Beach.... never any problems With anybody......sorry....

[krimster2]

“Allow me an eloquent response as a show of good will between a man and a fool”

why thank you, as it is obvious that I am the former and you are the latter, at first I thought you were being far too self-critical, but after reading the rest of what you wrote, I’d say that instead your self criticism is rather understated.  Oh, I’m sorry was this post your “eloquent response”, it seemed to me to be a bit weak and inarticulate... 

“...I detect a homosexual here. I know, my wife make me turn away when they show movies of homo content,” 

I’m sure she has a good reason for doing that, but I shudder to think of what that might be!

The last time someone attempted to direct a homosexual insult at me, I believe I was about 14 or so and it was done by a lad who had an IQ of about 75 and failed two grades, most people grow up, but obviously not everyone does

I’m glad your 3 trips to Crimea went well, but it doesn’t entitle you to say that someone who lived there 3 years has an invalid opinion simply because it’s different from yours.

Please allow me to give you a few words of wisdom which look as though they were created especially with you in mind, “sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt” 

Frankly, you’re the only person on this board whose insults end up doing more self inflicted damage then they do to its intended victim, indeed “you have removed all doubt...”

Thanks for the jolly good laugh!

[calmissile]

An interesting documentary by PBS on the conflict in Ukraine.  Some information that I had not read rearlier about 'Right Sector' and the history of this group and their objetives.

[Gator]

I am engaged to a Ukrainian; have spent many months with her in east, south and west Ukraine, and will happily take up residence with her in Lviv. I have had it with the 'American way of living'...greedy, corrupt politicians and political power blocks, i.e., government unions, Wall Street lobbyists, demographically aberrant identity groups (homosexuals, transgenders, pedophiles, animal fetishists) are taking over the country due to the lack of involvement in governance by the mainstream populace. Before they know it, the mainstream will be in legal and political shackles placed on it by the rabid fringe elements of our society.

cc3, not trying to start an argument, yet your words impress me as idealistic contempt. 

It seems that you have a special blessing of being able to live anywhere of your choosing on the globe.  Congratulations!  It also seems that you have a much younger fiancée who wants to enjoy this with you (you describe your travels in terms of decades and your fiancée as a student).  Congratulations! 

I too traveled the globe (UN) as an idealist, with plenty of fine girlfriends.  Yet after just two years of it I discovered the world was round and ended up where I had started.  America is not perfect and has some major faults, yet on the whole I thought it better than my other options because it felt like "home."  Business was also a consideration yet not overriding. 

Maybe if I had stayed away as long as you evidently have done,  my connections to America would have lessened measurably.   BTW, what are your plans when she wants a child?  Where you choose to raise your children is very important to their lives. 

Pardon my nosiness.

[cc3]

Ciao, Gator. I can speak of decades traveling the world, not due to some advantageous financial status, but due to lifestyle circumstances. I was born and raised an Air Force brat, certainly not a high social placement. I began world travels when my father was assigned to Wheelus AFB, near Tripoli, Libya...a real exotic garden spot, as a nine year old. When I was seventeen, my father retired from the Air Force, and I began a ten and a half stint of active duty in the Navy and the Marines, with the attendant foreign exposure such a tenure in the military entails. My first civilian job, after leaving military active duty, was based in Singapore for three years. My second civilian position was a 29 year career for a major American international airline flying all over the world, except Africa, but primarily to western Europe.

So, you see, there was no "special blessing", just a combination of family circumstances and a passion to fly, which, with extremely hard work and, at times, luck, earned me my fighter pilot/airline captain career. It also gave me an unusual amount of exposure to many nationalities, their behaviors, and their world perspectives.

Yes, my fiancee is much younger, but, unusually for Europe, she is a 40 year old adult university student, working on two different university degrees (business management and English translation) that she was unable to earn due to her previous marriage. So I am not 'robbing the cradle', and she will not be getting pregnant. We are, however, highly cognizant of certain advantages that her 16 year old daughter might have in attending an American university, so we have prioritized fiancee's degree first, due in a year, crisis in Ukraine allowing, followed by daughter's higher education goals.

You're pardoned for your nosiness! 

[JayH]

An interesting documentary by PBS on the conflict in Ukraine.  Some information that I had not read rearlier about 'Right Sector' and the history of this group and their objetives.

Certainly interesting and reasonable  doco -- will be interesting to see the later episodes.
This is better than most western attempts to explain  the ongoing crisis and tragedy.
Right sector has received a lot more asssitance on getting better organised and armed -- and have again been doing the hard yards in the east They have helped put some steel in the military and police-- and given them more confidence to deal with the situation.
If it was my decision--I would evacuate the civilian  population from eastern cities being occupied by the militants ( who would be whitewashed if not for the Russian support that is ongoing) .The militants are using civilians to prevent attacks-- but that will not work forever-- and not much longer.

[JayH]

 
While we have people watcching vids--here is one for those who rationalise Putin's invasion.
Donetsk residents separatists "Addicts drunks with guns"

[rockford75]

So To Jay H

You really have got to stop following mainstream media,for one thing they are bought and paid for by Government. I respect the fact that your pro Ukraine iam too.  I also know that lots of Ukraine people work in Russia as my wife has relatives there. If it werent for Russian jobs lots of Ukraine's would have no money and not be able to support there families. Have you ever been to Russia?  cause let me tell you its not much different then Ukraine people with jobs get up everyday and work and try to support there families . Now again Its not Putin that started this the West started all this with Ukraine . GO HERE
http://www.infowars.com/the-truth-about-the-ukraine-crisis/   and stop listening to mainstream media and listen to the true news INFOWARS >COM DRUDGE REPORT BENN SWAN Stop bashing Russia and get your facts straight!  Cause unless you have lived in Russia as I have you dont know what you are talking about.

[calmissile]

So To Jay H

You really have got to stop following mainstream media,for one thing they are bought and paid for by Government. I respect the fact that your pro Ukraine iam too.  I also know that lots of Ukraine people work in Russia as my wife has relatives there. If it werent for Russian jobs lots of Ukraine's would have no money and not be able to support there families. Have you ever been to Russia?  cause let me tell you its not much different then Ukraine people with jobs get up everyday and work and try to support there families . Now again Its not Putin that started this the West started all this with Ukraine . GO HERE
http://www.infowars.com/the-truth-about-the-ukraine-crisis/   and stop listening to mainstream media and listen to the true news INFOWARS >COM DRUDGE REPORT BENN SWAN Stop bashing Russia and get your facts straight!  Cause unless you have lived in Russia as I have you dont know what you are talking about.

Rocky, your cracking me up.  The video you link is a propaganda piece that lists no references or proofs to the foolish conclusions he offers.

Being the husband of a Russian women, it seems to be a theme here that you would take the Russian side.  So you live in Russia?

Let me give you a little perspective from someone that has spent time in Ukraine and has a Ukrainian wife that still lives in Ukraine.

1.  I have been going to Ukraine since before Maiden and met, stayed with, and discussed politics with many people.  This also includes Crimea, particularly in Sevastopol.

2.  Prior to Maiden and the invasion by Russia, the people of Ukraine got along with each other regardless if they are Ukrainian speakers or Russian speakers.  In fact many of the citizens speak both languages or a hybrid of both.  There was no discord that I every witnessed.

3.  Your perception that Maiden was financed and actively supported by the USA is just plain B.S. !   There is no way to know for certain if any of the US foreign aid money was channeled to the protesters, but it is unlikely since your boy Yanukovich seemed to have stolen most of the money anyway.

4.  My wife and I made several visits to Maiden and observed the protesters.  She lives within earshot of the grenades and gunfire from the center.  In addition, she has been to Maiden during the conflict several times because it was necessary to visit the courts and government offices during this time.  The supporters of maiden were Ukrainian citizens from all over Ukraine.  I doubt I saw more than a dozen native English speaking people the times we went there.

5.  Whether you like it or not,  Maiden was a grass roots Ukrainian adventure.  I can enlighten you a little as to why I make this conclusion.  The previous 2-3 years prior to Maiden, nearly everyone I talked to in Ukraine had the same attitude about politics and the government....   "They are all a bunch of crooks.  It does not matter which one we elect!"   After the early success of Maiden where tens of thousands attended, the public support grew and grew.  Why you might ask?..... because there is security in numbers, and the citizens began to think there may be hope in replacing Yanuckovich with a new, less corrupt government.  The EU vs. Russia decision may have been the spark that got it started, but once it got going it was more a case of throwing out the crooks and electing a new government.

6.  Once the public got to see the lavish residence of Yanuckovich and learn of the amount of money he stole from the people, there was no turning back.  It was time to oust him and get a new president.  I wonder how Putin would fare under the same circumstances?   

If you consider yourself a rational thinker, please answer the following:

On what legal basis can you justify Russia invading a sovereign nation (Crimea) and taking it as their property?

Why is it that nearly everything Putin says is a lie.... such as he has pulled his troops out a month or so ago when no troops had been pulled back?

His lies that no Russian troops (little green men) were in Crimea prior to the official invasion.

What legal basis does he have continuing to stick his nose in Ukraine's business now (in the East)?

I ask you to consider the big picture....  What major event caused Russia to get involved in an internal Ukrainian conflict?  The only thing I recall is that Putin's puppet (Yanuckovich) was driven from office.  There is no other major event that I can remember that caused the Russian's to invade Ukraine (Crimea) and send terrorists into Eastern Ukraine.  If this was not the reason, what is your explanation?

I'll wait for your reply.....

[cc3]

Why I hate, HATE Putin and all Russians (and others) who support him:

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/06/staged-attack-with-rpg-from-tree-in.html

...a most pleasant park where I have spent many peaceful and romantic times with my fiancee, as little children played among the trees where the explosions occur.

[GQBlues]

Why I hate, HATE Putin and all Russians (and others) who support him:

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/06/staged-attack-with-rpg-from-tree-in.html

...a most pleasant park where I have spent many peaceful and romantic times with my fiancee, as little children played among the trees where the explosions occur.

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/06/a-second-more-detailed-look-into-flight.html

Same blogger...correcting himself, LOL.

"...Conclusion: it seems the jet DID fire into the park!!!!
 
 Of course this is a completely different ballgame...Earlier I stated that the impacts might have been from an automated grenade launcher. That option also seems unlikely now.
 
 I have some rewriting of pages to do..."

LOL..Oh the irony!

>>...a most pleasant park where I have spent many peaceful and romantic times with my fiancee, as little children played among the trees where the explosions occur....<<<

The drama would've had me in hysterics really if it wasn't so sad for these people...Ukrainians had been killing Ukrainians all this time, man.

The government, the people, the entire society is morally bankrupt and corrupt. So much so they pride themselves to the benefits of corruption. That baby is the real evil in this unfortunate crisis. Dudes like you perpetuate these types of mentality.

[JayH]

Right Sector- a brief explanation--not nazis-- but Ukrainian Nationalists
Quoting--
Dmitry Jarosz. Clarification regarding participation "rights sector" in response to the Russian aggressors
_____________________________________________________
"Right sector" appeared as a revolutionary movement of the Ukrainian people under the rule of the Yanukovych regime. After escaping Yanukovych, which marked the beginning of a new stage of the National Revolution, it was decided to transform "the right sector" into a political party, which is in accord with other nationalist institutions will continue to fight for the creation of Ukrainian national state in accordance with the requirements of the new political reality. Accordingly, the current "Right sector 'operates under current legislation as a political party, and that this is determined by the nature of its involvement in fighting Russian invaders and their agents. As a political party, we can not have its own military forces. But we have enough human resources that will be useful in protecting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. In particular, we are leveraging its own membership to the formation of territorial defense battalions "Dnepr", "Donbass" and "Sloboda". A "rights sector" will enrich and other military units whose activity is aimed at protecting the independence of our country. Also we will provide any other possible assistance in the fight against the invaders. National Revolution in Ukraine should continue. Now she was faced with external aggression. However, we will do everything we can to stop this aggression and to bring national revolution to its logical conclusion, namely obtaining Ukrainian Independent

[LAman]

Interesting speech by new president Poroshenko at his inaugural on future of Ukraine:


Ukraine's new president: 'Crimea was, is and will be Ukrainian soil'


Petro Poroshenko, one of the world's richest men, added "Ukrainian president" to his list of credentials this morning, reports CNN.

The man who made billions as a chocolate maker took the oath of office in front of Vice President Joe Biden and several European presidents, and his inaugural speech was one which delivered shades of both diplomacy and strength.

"I don't want war. I don't want revenge," Poroshenko said. But, "who comes with the sword will fall from the sword."

Promising a tough stance against Russian encroachment and separatist militants in Eastern Ukraine, Poroshenko said, "No one will protect us, if we do not learn to protect ourselves," and he added, "talking to gangsters and to killers is not our avenue."

As to Crimea, the country's disputed territory which was annexed earlier this spring by Russia, Poroshenko said that the fight is not yet over.

"Crimea was, is and will be Ukrainian soil," he said.

[AkMike]

Some points from inaugural speech of Petro Poroshenko, new President of Ukraine
June 7, 2014 (quick compilation and translation)

President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko set a major goal to preserve the unity of Ukraine.

"I go to the office of President, to preserve and strengthen the unity of Ukraine", - Petro Poroshenko said during his inaugural speech on Saturday in the building of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

Petro Poroshenko started his speech with the words "Glory to Ukraine!".

President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko declares its readiness to provide a corridor for moving out Russian mercenaries from Ukraine.

"I do not want war, I do not seek revenge, in spite of the sight of great sacrifices made by the Ukrainian people is before my eyes. I strive for the peace and will achieve unity of Ukraine. Therefore I start my work with peace plan offer" - he said in his inaugural speech on Saturday in the building of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

Poroshenko also strongly urged all those who illegally took up arms, to lay down the arms. "In response to acceptance of this offer I guarantee, first, exemption from criminal responsibility those whose hands are not in blood Ukrainian soldiers and civilians, and those who are not involved in the financing of terrorism" - the president pointed out.

"Secondly, the controlled the corridor could be provided for Russian mercenaries who want to return home," - said the head of state.

President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko also said that Ukraine has been and will remain a unitary state.

"Dreams of federalization have no ground in Ukraine", - he said in his inaugural speech on Saturday in the building of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.

"Russia occupied the Crimea, which has been and will be Ukrainian. Yesterday I said about this the Russian leadership firmly in Normandy "- President of Ukraine stressed.

In addition, the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko said that the only official language in Ukraine will remain Ukrainian language.

"New life means that one can not ignore the will of people, to live free is to speak freely in their native language, as stated in the article 10 of the Constitution. And it defines the Ukrainian language as the only state language and it guarantees the free development of Russian and other languages," - he said.

Poroshenko also in favor of holding extraordinary parliamentary elections.

"An important part of the public inquiry is complete reset of power, which is extraordinary parliamentary elections," - he said.

Poroshenko said in his inaugural address that in the near future is going to go "to the east of the country with peace."

"What as the President I will come to you in the near future. Peace. With the project of decentralization of power. With the guarantee of free use in your region of the Russian language. With the firm intention not to divide Ukrainians on right and wrong. With a respectful attitude to the specific regions, the right of local communities to their peculiarities in matters of historical memory, religious traditions, "- said Poroshenko, referring to his fellow citizens in the east of the country in Russian.

"Today we need a legitimate dialogue partner. We will not talk to bandits, we will not" – pointed out the president of Ukraine.

He is also convinced of the necessity of signing the Agreement on the EU-Ukraine Association.

"Association Agreement, we consider only as the first step towards full membership of Ukraine in the European Union" – Poroshenko said.

The President said that he is ready to sign the second part of the Association Agreement with the EU, related to the establishment of a free trade area, and waits for the corresponding readiness from the European side.

"I think that the position of the Ukrainian Parliament and the will of the Ukrainian people will create all conditions for Ukraine to receive EU membership in perspective, because no one has the right to veto the European choice," - said the new president of Ukraine.

President of Ukraine declared that the government is ready to announce early local elections in Donbass to resolve the situation in the region.

"Today we need a legitimate dialogue partner. We will not talk with the bandits not and we are ready to announce early local elections in the Donbas to have dialogue partners" - said Poroshenko.

President Petro Poroshenko called for an agreement between the government and the people of Ukraine for a joint fight against corruption.

"We need a national anti-corruption pact between the government and the people. Its essence is simple: officials do not take, and people do not give [bribes]. We can not change the country if we do not change themselves, our attitude to our own lives, to the life of the whole country"

Compilation and translation by Vitalii Usenko

Sources:
http://delo.ua/ukraine/chto-po...dated_new=1402133007
http://www.unian.net/politics/...mi-myi-ne-budem.html
http://www.unian.net/politics/...chno-poroshenko.html
http://www.unian.net/politics/...udet-ukrainskim.html
http://www.unian.net/politics/...chno-poroshenko.html
http://interfax.com.ua/news/general/208401.html

[ML]

Nice speech, and I hope him the  best.

But I think people both there and leaders in the west are way to optimistic about what he can really accomplish.

Limited powers, even more limited resources, etc.

[rockford75]

Rocky, your cracking me up.  The video you link is a propaganda piece that lists no references or proofs to the foolish conclusions he offers.

Being the husband of a Russian women, it seems to be a theme here that you would take the Russian side.  So you live in Russia?

Let me give you a little perspective from someone that has spent time in Ukraine and has a Ukrainian wife that still lives in Ukraine.

1.  I have been going to Ukraine since before Maiden and met, stayed with, and discussed politics with many people.  This also includes Crimea, particularly in Sevastopol.

2.  Prior to Maiden and the invasion by Russia, the people of Ukraine got along with each other regardless if they are Ukrainian speakers or Russian speakers.  In fact many of the citizens speak both languages or a hybrid of both.  There was no discord that I every witnessed.

3.  Your perception that Maiden was financed and actively supported by the USA is just plain B.S. !   There is no way to know for certain if any of the US foreign aid money was channeled to the protesters, but it is unlikely since your boy Yanukovich seemed to have stolen most of the money anyway.

4.  My wife and I made several visits to Maiden and observed the protesters.  She lives within earshot of the grenades and gunfire from the center.  In addition, she has been to Maiden during the conflict several times because it was necessary to visit the courts and government offices during this time.  The supporters of maiden were Ukrainian citizens from all over Ukraine.  I doubt I saw more than a dozen native English speaking people the times we went there.

5.  Whether you like it or not,  Maiden was a grass roots Ukrainian adventure.  I can enlighten you a little as to why I make this conclusion.  The previous 2-3 years prior to Maiden, nearly everyone I talked to in Ukraine had the same attitude about politics and the government....   "They are all a bunch of crooks.  It does not matter which one we elect!"   After the early success of Maiden where tens of thousands attended, the public support grew and grew.  Why you might ask?..... because there is security in numbers, and the citizens began to think there may be hope in replacing Yanuckovich with a new, less corrupt government.  The EU vs. Russia decision may have been the spark that got it started, but once it got going it was more a case of throwing out the crooks and electing a new government.

6.  Once the public got to see the lavish residence of Yanuckovich and learn of the amount of money he stole from the people, there was no turning back.  It was time to oust him and get a new president.  I wonder how Putin would fare under the same circumstances?   

If you consider yourself a rational thinker, please answer the following:

On what legal basis can you justify Russia invading a sovereign nation (Crimea) and taking it as their property?

Why is it that nearly everything Putin says is a lie.... such as he has pulled his troops out a month or so ago when no troops had been pulled back?

His lies that no Russian troops (little green men) were in Crimea prior to the official invasion.

What legal basis does he have continuing to stick his nose in Ukraine's business now (in the East)?

I ask you to consider the big picture....  What major event caused Russia to get involved in an internal Ukrainian conflict?  The only thing I recall is that Putin's puppet (Yanuckovich) was driven from office.  There is no other major event that I can remember that caused the Russian's to invade Ukraine (Crimea) and send terrorists into Eastern Ukraine.  If this was not the reason, what is your explanation?

I'll wait for your reply.....




Ok here it is! My reply,

So now the Ukraine has another puppet a USA backed puppet in Petr Poroshenko. Another Billionaire leader.  Who is clearly Western backed his job to turn Ukraine over to the EU and to lay out the welcome mat for NATO forces to encircle Russia with missiles and the Military. Claiming to be peace keepers.
All backed by the USA and the West  http://www.infowars.com/washingtons-iron-curtain-in-ukraine/
They are trying to destabilize Ukraine http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_09/Destabilization-of-Ukraine-used-as-pretext-to-move-NATO-closer-to-Russian-borders-1104/  in order for USA and the West in other words NATO parked on the Russian border. Now Putin didn't invade Crimea. Crimea wanted to join the Russian Federation and why not? The country is made up of 70 %-80% Russian speaking people.
Read this article it tells all  http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_05/Russia-never-annexed-Crimea-no-plans-to-intervene-Ukraine-its-Western-delusion-Putin-5970/

[lordtiberius]

Fly into Borisopol last night, I stood in line with the Russian passport holders while UA and EU had their own line.  Saw Jews praying in the Airport at baggage claim.  Too the train to Lviv.  If you have the choice to speak Russian or English here, speak English.

PS. A sexagenarian wife hunter on his first visit to Ukraine chatted up a pretty twenty something in very audible English.  He said he was a journalist and he kept talking to the blonde beauty about the Soviet Union's history in Ukraine.  I thought about cluing him into the fact that their girls are not as stupid as ours.  Then thought otherwise when I considered this man could be one of our Hero Members.

[Anotherkiwi]

Ok here it is! My reply,

So now the Ukraine has another puppet a USA backed puppet in Petr Poroshenko. Another Billionaire leader.  Who is clearly Western backed his job to turn Ukraine over to the EU and to lay out the welcome mat for NATO forces to encircle Russia with missiles and the Military. Claiming to be peace keepers.
All backed by the USA and the West  http://www.infowars.com/washingtons-iron-curtain-in-ukraine/
They are trying to destabilize Ukraine http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_09/Destabilization-of-Ukraine-used-as-pretext-to-move-NATO-closer-to-Russian-borders-1104/  in order for USA and the West in other words NATO parked on the Russian border.

Why is Poroshenko "clearly Western backed?"  The West didn't have anything to do with how he made his money, so why should he need them to "back" him?  He clearly won the popular vote, without even needing a runoff.  Who are you trying to convince that this was a set-up?  Yourself?  How about giving him a chance to show what he can do for his country, rather than assuming that he's as corrupt as Yanukovych (he may be, but let's see what the Ukrainian people think).

If his country wishes to move towards the West, that is Ukraine's decision - not Russia's.  I also thought that NATO had already said it would not deploy troops or armament in Ukraine but, of course, that might be yesterday's news.  As for destabilisation of Ukraine - please!  Are you trying to tell me that all these insurgents in Eastern Ukraine, who all speak perfect Russian with the appropriate local accents, are really Ukrainian troops in disguise?

Now Putin didn't invade Crimea. Crimea wanted to join the Russian Federation and why not? The country is made up of 70 %-80% Russian speaking people.

Even Putin (eventually) admitted that Russian troops entered Crimea, not a country by itself but part of a sovereign country that wasn't their own!  What do you call that, if it's not an invasion?  A friendly stroll across the border by 25,000 people who all got lost at the same time?

Read this article it tells all  http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_05/Russia-never-annexed-Crimea-no-plans-to-intervene-Ukraine-its-Western-delusion-Putin-5970/

A few days after the spurious "referendum" in Crimea, the Russian Duma passed a resolution, signed off by President Putin, formally annexing the territory!  For crying out loud, who is deluded here?

[calmissile]

Anotherkiwi,

Were patiently waiting for Rockford75 to come on here and tell us that since Alaska once belonged to Russia, that it was sold too cheaply to the USA, and Russia is justified in invading and annexing it.   

After occupation I am sure Putin could rig another phoney referendum.  Even use the same excuse that he is 'protecting' Russian speakers (not Russian citizens) as was the case in Crimea.   

[Anotherkiwi]

Anotherkiwi,

Were patiently waiting for Rockford75 to come on here and tell us that since Alaska once belonged to Russia, that it was sold too cheaply to the USA, and Russia is justified in invading and annexing it.   

After occupation I am sure Putin could rig another phoney referendum.  Even use the same excuse that he is 'protecting' Russian speakers (not Russian citizens) as was the case in Crimea.   

What's your problem with that?  Russia gets Sarah Palin, and one hopes that the average IQ of the remaining American politicians is increased! 

[Muzh]

So now the Ukraine has another puppet a USA backed puppet in Petr Poroshenko. Another Billionaire leader.  Who is clearly Western backed his job to turn Ukraine over to the EU and to lay out the welcome mat for NATO forces to encircle Russia with missiles and the Military. Claiming to be peace keepers.

Interesting observation there, bub.


Here's an excerpt from an observer of Russian Military affairs.

In this environment, Russia’s current policy in Ukraine is not just about geopolitical calculations regarding Ukraine’s economic ties with the EU versus the Eurasian Union, or even potential Ukrainian NATO membership. Instead, a main goal may be to strengthen President Vladimir Putin’s regime domestically by increasing patriotic attitudes among the Russian population.
 
Patriotism would thus be the means by which the Russian government inoculates the population against anti-regime or pro-Western attitudes. This goal would explain the obsessive focus on building an anti-Ukrainian and anti-U.S. domestic media narrative from an early stage in the Ukraine conflict.
 
One thing that may strike observers is that the supposed U.S. strategy laid out by Russian officials very closely parallels Russia’s actions in Ukraine in recent weeks. While Russian officials certainly did not organize the Maidan protests, NATO has accused Russia of backing pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine.
 

Why do Russian leaders think the U.S. government is out to get them?

[lordtiberius]

Most Americans don't know where Russia is, but you wouldn't know that by watching RT.

Anyone watch the Putin-Obama interaction on D-day?  The article I read said Obama won the body language competition but I figured I would ask unbiased observers.

If one was to invest in Ukraine, not saying I am, maybe now is the time.

[Muzh]

Most Americans don't know where Russia is, but you wouldn't know that by watching RT.

Anyone watch the Putin-Obama interaction on D-day?  The article I read said Obama won the body language competition but I figured I would ask unbiased observers.

If one was to invest in Ukraine, not saying I am, maybe now is the time.

Sorry, didn't bother watching two nincompoops.