Ukrainian plane crashed flying from Tehran

[jone]

I think we're at a point now where there is little doubt that the plane was brought down by a missile(s).

How stupid does Ukraine look, allowing its planes to fly in Iran when the country has just launched missiles at US targets in Iraq.  The greatest danger is not from the US for retaliation, but over zealous Iranians who would be on high alert to shoot at anything.

Russia is being strangely silent through this whole episode.   I am wondering if the Russians sold the Iranians the anti aircraft missiles that were used to shoot it down.  Can anyone say BUK?

[calmissile]

There will be several political responses.  Among them....
1.  Yes, UIA looks really stupid and incompetent for allowing the plane to depart.  I don't see the Ukrainian government culpable.  Generally, the airline makes the decision whether to direct and schedule flights.  I suspect that the Ukraine government did not have airline schedules on their top priority list.
2.  I am pretty confident that the missile were of Russian origin and since they are in bed with Iran it is most likely that they supplied the missiles.
3.  The fact that the Iranian military is so loosely controlled, it does serve as a warning to the rest of the world that anything is likely to happen in the future from that country.
4.  It is aggravating that the media is portraying the missile firing as a mistake.  What a stupid comment.  It was a deliberate action by someone in the military in control of the missile battery.  Same was true in the case of MH17.  It is not likely that they misidentified the target.  It was not an incoming flight.  It originated in Tehran.
5.  Canada should be outraged.

[jone]

If it as you say, Doug, then we can expect the same stonewalling and obfuscation that the Dutch experienced and still are experiencing from Russia when Russia refused to accept blame for the MH17, even to the point of vetos in the UN so as not to allow a complete/comprehensive investigation.

I don't see how they keep the launching of missiles at an airliner hidden from the world.  But they probably only care about hiding it from their own people.

I had the 'pleasure' of reading RT this morning.   The official Russian line is to blame the US.

[BillyB]

4.  It is aggravating that the media is portraying the missile firing as a mistake.  What a stupid comment.  It was a deliberate action by someone in the military in control of the missile battery.  Same was true in the case of MH17.  It is not likely that they misidentified the target.  It was not an incoming flight.  It originated in Tehran.

Mistakes happen. There's no rational explanation for the downing of the plane since it was operated by a Ukrainian company with most passengers being Iranian and Canadian. If most who died were American, the Iranians can claim that is part of the revenge they wanted to take.

Mistakes happen on our side too. In 1988 Iran sent off warning shots at an American military helicopter. A missile cruiser the helicopter was based on shot back at an incoming aircraft. It was an Iranian passenger jet. America admitted it's mistake and assumed responsibility and paid the families of each passenger hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Even if Russia made the weapon Iran used, The NRA says lay responsibility on the guy that pulls the trigger, not the manufacturer of the gun.

[jone]

Looks like the culprit was a Tor (SA-15) missile.   Or two of them as the US had two tracks of missiles.



Apparently the guidance package for one of these missiles was found a short distance away from the crash site and in a garden.   Images were put up on social media.   There is really no reason to doubt them.   If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its almost always a duck.

[GQBlues]

Mistakes happen. There's no rational explanation for the downing of the plane since it was operated by a Ukrainian company with most passengers being Iranian and Canadian. If most who died were American, the Iranians can claim that is part of the revenge they wanted to take.

Mistakes happen on our side too. In 1988 Iran sent off warning shots at an American military helicopter. A missile cruiser the helicopter was based on shot back at an incoming aircraft. It was an Iranian passenger jet. America admitted it's mistake and assumed responsibility and paid the families of each passenger hundreds of thousands of dollars.

YUP. TWA Flight No. 800 in 1996 for instance. That was ruled 'an accident'. Ah heck, why not..

[JayH]

I had the 'pleasure' of reading RT this morning.   The official Russian line is to blame the US.

Perhaps looking a lot closer to home would be appropriate?

Russia has no concern for the truth--on anything.

Curious the selection of a Ukrainian aircraft to be shot down .

Comment above about Ukraine being culpable for allowing aircraft to fly into Iran (UIA is privately owned company)-- but ---today--

TIME   FLIGHT   TO   AIRLINE   AIRCRAFT      STATUS
Friday, Jan 10
2:25 AM   LH601   
Frankfurt (FRA)
Lufthansa   A333 (D-AIKS)   
Canceled
3:00 AM   IR723   
Hamburg (HAM)
Iran Air   330   
Estimated dep. 3:00 AM
3:00 AM   TK875   
Istanbul (IST)
Turkish Airlines   A321 (TC-JSH)   
Delayed 8:30 AM
3:40 AM   XQ5905   
Izmir (ADB)
SunExpress   73H   
Delayed 6:00 PM
3:45 AM   OS872   
Vienna (VIE)
Austrian Airlines   A320 (OE-LBN)   
Canceled
3:45 AM   OS1578   
Vienna (VIE)
Austrian Airlines   A320 (OE-LBN)   
Scheduled
4:20 AM   PC513   
Istanbul (SAW)
Pegasus Airlines   320   
Estimated dep. 4:20 AM
4:30 AM   SU513   
Moscow (SVO)
Aeroflot   320   
Estimated dep. 4:30 AM
4:30 AM   W51101   
Kabul (KBL)
Mahan Air   310   
Scheduled
4:35 AM   KK6523   
Adana (ADA)
AtlasGlobal   321   
Scheduled
4:45 AM   QR491   
Doha (DOH)
Qatar Airways   77W   
Estimated dep. 4:45 AM
4:45 AM   TK873   
Istanbul (IST)
Turkish Airlines   A333 (TC-JNZ)   
Delayed 8:15 AM
4:45 AM   XQ5659   
Adana (ADA)
SunExpress   73H   
Delayed 8:15 AM
5:15 AM   KK1185   
Istanbul (IST)
AtlasGlobal   330   
Estimated dep. 5:15 AM
5:15 AM   PS752   
Kyiv (KBP)
Ukraine Int. Airlines   738   
Canceled
5:25 AM   KK6531   
Izmir (ADB)
AtlasGlobal   321   
Estimated dep. 4:25 AM
5:30 AM   W51134   
Banja Luka (BNX)
Mahan Air   310   
Scheduled
5:45 AM   IR719   
Istanbul (IST)
Iran Air   AB6   
Scheduled
5:45 AM   IR601   
Kuwait City (KWI)
Iran Air   321   
Scheduled
6:20 AM   TK899   
Istanbul (SAW)
Turkish Airlines   B738 (TC-JVF)   
Delayed 7:15 AM
6:30 AM   QB2103   
Tabriz (TBZ)
Qeshm Airlines   319   
Scheduled
6:45 AM   IR810   
Mumbai (BOM)
Iran Air   AB6   
Estimated dep. 6:45 AM
6:50 AM   W5112   
Istanbul (IST)
Mahan Air   343   
Estimated dep. 6:50 AM
7:00 AM   W5140   
Rome (FCO)
Mahan Air   346   
Scheduled
7:40 AM   TK879   
Istanbul (IST)
Turkish Airlines   A333 (TC-LOE)   
Estimated dep. 8:25 AM
8:00 AM   W561   
Dubai (DXB)
Mahan Air   346   
Estimated dep. 8:00 AM
8:00 AM   W5118   
Ankara (ESB)
Mahan Air   310   
Estimated dep. 8:00 AM
9:00 AM   IR733   
Paris (CDG)
Iran Air   332   
Estimated dep. 9:00 AM
9:30 AM   W5116   
Istanbul (IST)
Mahan Air   343   
Canceled
9:50 AM   IR751   
Milan (MXP)
Iran Air   310   
Estimated dep. 9:50 AM
10:30 AM   6A112   
Yerevan (EVN)
-   143   
Scheduled
11:00 AM   IV7926   
Sulaimaniyah (ISU)
Caspian Airlines   M83   
Scheduled
11:00 AM   IA110   
Nasiriyah (XNH)
Iraqi Airways   CR9   
Scheduled
11:05 AM   EK972   
Dubai (DXB)
Emirates   77W   
Estimated dep. 11:05 AM
11:15 AM   W563   
Dubai (DXB)
Mahan Air   313   
Scheduled
11:20 AM   I36619   
Istanbul (SAW)
ATA Airlines   320   
Scheduled
11:30 AM   W5120   
Istanbul (IST)
Mahan Air   343   
Scheduled
11:30 AM   W51150   
Yerevan (EVN)
Mahan Air   313   
Scheduled
12:30 PM   QR483   
Doha (DOH)
Qatar Airways   351   
Scheduled
1:00 PM   W55060   
Arbil (EBL)
Mahan Air   310   
Scheduled
1:00 PM   QB2289   
Najaf (NJF)
Qeshm Airlines   320   
Scheduled
1:00 PM   QB2213   
Istanbul (ISL)
Qeshm Airlines   AB6   
Scheduled
1:30 PM   KU516   
Kuwait City (KWI)
Kuwait Airways   320   
Scheduled
2:30 PM   G9202   
Sharjah (SHJ)
Air Arabia   320   
Scheduled
3:00 PM   EP512   
Istanbul (IST)
Iran Aseman Airlines   340   
Scheduled
3:00 PM   IA112   
Baghdad (BGW)
Iraqi Airways   737   
Scheduled
3:00 PM   QB2299   
Najaf (NJF)
Qeshm Airlines   320   
Scheduled
3:05 PM   TK871   
Istanbul (IST)
Turkish Airlines   321   
Scheduled
3:30 PM   IR5321   
Najaf (NJF)
Iran Air   AB3   
Scheduled
3:50 PM   W55058   
Sulaimaniyah (ISU)
Mahan Air   310   
Scheduled
4:00 PM   IV7906   
Baghdad (BGW)
Caspian Airlines   M83   
Scheduled
4:00 PM   IA1112   
Baghdad (BGW)
Iraqi Airways   CR9   
Scheduled
5:05 PM   WY434   
Muscat (MCT)
Oman Air   E75   
Scheduled
5:10 PM   W5114   
Istanbul (IST)
Mahan Air   310   
Scheduled
5:40 PM   IR729   
Cologne (CGN)
Iran Air   330   
Scheduled
6:15 PM   W565   
Dubai (DXB)
Mahan Air   313   
Scheduled
6:40 PM   EK980   
Dubai (DXB)
Emirates   77L   
Scheduled
7:00 PM   W579   
Beijing (PEK)
Mahan Air   343   
Scheduled
7:00 PM   QB2215   
Istanbul (ISL)
Qeshm Airlines   AB6   
Scheduled
7:45 PM   QB2273   
Tbilisi (TBS)
Qeshm Airlines   320   
Scheduled
7:50 PM   W571   
Delhi (DEL)
Mahan Air   310   
Scheduled
7:50 PM   B99702   
Istanbul (ISL)
Iran Airtour   M82   
Scheduled
8:30 PM   IA114   
Najaf (NJF)
Iraqi Airways   737   
Scheduled
8:30 PM   IR5341   
Najaf (NJF)
Iran Air   AB3   
Scheduled
8:50 PM   IR765   
Cardak (DNZ)
Iran Air   AB6   
Scheduled
9:10 PM   W577   
Shanghai (PVG)
Mahan Air   346   
Scheduled
9:10 PM   W581   
Guangzhou (CAN)
Mahan Air   346   
Scheduled
9:25 PM   OV544   
Muscat (MCT)
SalamAir   320   
Scheduled
9:45 PM   W551   
Bangkok (BKK)
Mahan Air   343   
Scheduled
9:50 PM   IR759   
Izmir (ADB)
Iran Air   AB6   
Scheduled
10:00 PM   W583   
Kuala Lumpur (KUL)
Mahan Air   343   
Scheduled
10:35 PM   CZ6026   
Urumqi (URC)
China Southern Airlines   738   
Scheduled
10:50 PM   QR499   
Doha (DOH)
Qatar Airways   77W   
Scheduled
Saturday, Jan 11
1:25 AM   J29006   
Baku (GYD)
Azerbaijan Airlines   E190 (4K-AZ64)   
Scheduled
2:25 AM   LH601   
Frankfurt (FRA)
Lufthansa   343   
Canceled
3:00 AM   TK875   
Istanbul (IST)
Turkish Airlines   32B   
Scheduled
3:40 AM   XQ5905   
Izmir (ADB)
SunExpress   73H   
Canceled
3:45 AM   OS872   
Vienna (VIE)
Austrian Airlines   320   
Canceled
4:20 AM   PC513   
Istanbul (SAW)
Pegasus Airlines   320   
Scheduled
4:35 AM   WY432   
Muscat (MCT)
Oman Air   E75   
Scheduled
4:45 AM   QR491   
Doha (DOH)
Qatar Airways   351   
Scheduled
4:45 AM   TK873   
Istanbul (IST)
Turkish Airlines   321   
Scheduled
4:45 AM   XQ5659   
Adana (ADA)
SunExpress   73H   
Scheduled
5:15 AM   KK1185   
Istanbul (IST)
AtlasGlobal   330   
Scheduled
5:15 AM   PS752   
Kyiv (KBP)
Ukraine Int. Airlines   738   
Scheduled
6:00 AM   I36650   
Najaf (NJF)
ATA Airlines   320   
Scheduled
6:20 AM   IR721   
Frankfurt (FRA)
Iran Air   330   
Scheduled
6:20 AM   TK899   
Istanbul (SAW)
Turkish Airlines   73H   
Scheduled
6:50 AM   W5112   
Istanbul (IST)
Mahan Air   343   
Scheduled
7:00 AM   IR658   
Dubai (DXB)
Iran Air   321   
Scheduled
7:30 AM   IR717   
Vienna (VIE)
Iran Air   AB6   
Scheduled
7:40 AM   TK879   
Istanbul (IST)
Turkish Airlines   333   
Scheduled
8:00 AM   W561   
Dubai (DXB)
Mahan Air   343   
Scheduled
8:00 AM   W5118   
Ankara (ESB)
Mahan Air   310   
Scheduled
8:50 AM   IR713   
Stockholm (ARN)
Iran Air   330   
Scheduled
9:00 AM   W5116   
Istanbul (IST)
Mahan Air   343   
Scheduled
9:00 AM   QB2107   
Brussels (BRU)
Qeshm Airlines   319   
Scheduled
9:45 AM   IV7912   
Najaf (NJF)
Caspian Airlines   M83   
Scheduled
10:00 AM   IR747   
Tbilisi (TBS)
Iran Air   AB6

[Trenchcoat]

Looks like the Iranians ended up with egg on their face over this sorry episode. No casualties at the American airbases and an appalling air tragedy on innocent civilians caused by its own idiotic and pointless aggression.

Allowed for Trump to offer a truce, they should take it.

[tfcrew]

My thoughts about the Ukrainian plane crash is that the Iranian military shot it down by accident. Most of the passengers were Iranian and shooting it down as payback to America makes no sense. 

Let me emphasize...the Iranian Imam care nothing about the Iranian people.
 How much less then about the 'infidel'? They have butchered thousands in recent years. 
Oops---- we cut off the wrong head by accident!                      

[BillyB]

American intelligence report been released. Says Iranian air defense radar locked onto Ukrainian passenger plane and two missiles were fired.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/01/09/ukraine-plane-likely-shot-down-iran-missile-report/4419263002/

In other news Russia announces order for two SA-15 TOR replacement missiles from anonymous buyer.

Justkidding.com

[msmob]

'hilarious'

You and Trench share the same sense of 'humour'.

[jone]

And now the cover-up begins:

1.  Iran now says that it will keep possession of the black box(es) but allow other entities to see the results of their findings.

2.  All pieces of the plane have been removed to an undisclosed site.

3.  Iran accuses US of making up stories.   And that Iran has absolute proof that the plane was not brought down by a missile.

Time for another 'Evil Empire' speech like the one Reagan gave when the Soviet Union shot down the Korean airliner.  This time, however, it should be someone from one of the countries that suffered the most.   Why do we have to go through these transparent lies?

[2tallbill]

NOTE: The photo in the article is a front end loader not a bulldozer. 
I don't know if they had a bulldozer there or not. Go to link below
if you want to see the difference.
http://yamada-co.jp/en/blog/detail/65


Iran is using bulldozers at the Ukrainian plane crash site
http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-bulldozers-ukrainian-jet-crash-site-complicate-investigation-2020-1


Video appears to show missile strike as Canada and UK say they have intel
Iran shot down Ukrainian plane
http://www.cnn.com/2020/01/09/politics/is-iran-ukraine-plane/index.html

[BillyB]

Iran is using bulldozers at the Ukrainian plane crash site
http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-bulldozers-ukrainian-jet-crash-site-complicate-investigation-2020-1

Got to move heavy plane and missile parts around before inviting international inspectors.

[2tallbill]

Got to move heavy plane and missile parts around before inviting international inspectors.

Putting plane pieces in a loader bucket makes a lot of sense
it's a great way to move heavy stuff across a quarter mile of
uneven ground. The article was written to act as if they are
pushing the parts and a pile of dirt with a bulldozer.

[Gator]

And now the cover-up begins:

This will expose the Islamic Republic of Iran for what it is.  Much like the downing of MH 17 revealed the criminality of Putin's Russia. 

And some people believe an insubstantial nuclear deal with the Islamic Republic of Iran was protective of peace and stability.  Idiots! 

[jone]

Putting plane pieces in a loader bucket makes a lot of sense
it's a great way to move heavy stuff across a quarter mile of
uneven ground. The article was written to act as if they are
pushing the parts and a pile of dirt with a bulldozer.

It is also a good way to mask evidence.   The area was not treated like a crime scene and carefully documented.   Instead it was sanitized with the heavy equipment quickly moving traces of the crash out of public view.   As I stated before, Iran will lie and obfuscate because to do otherwise subjects the ruling parties to scrutiny. 

The official line will now be mechanical error and anything that doesn't support that conclusion will be hidden from public view.   And, like the Russians, with MH17, they will come up with any possible theory as to what happened to the plane, except, of course, the obvious.   

[jone]

On another note, the guidance package from this particular missile system ejects before collision.

Images of what appeared to be this guidance package appeared on social media at a location close to the shoot down.   The initial pictures were submitted from Iranian sources.   Those sources have all been purged.   I can imagine the very polite and sweet requests that those posters received from the ruling authorities.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-missiles-explainer/explainer-missile-system-suspected-of-bringing-down-airliner-short-range-fast-and-deadly-idUSKBN1Z90A1

[2tallbill]

It is also a good way to mask evidence.

Let's look at the politics timeline for a moment.

1. The Iranians attack our US Embassy in Iraq.
Media portrayal/narrative: Trump was at fault this will be
his Benghazi they hoped for many deaths with glee.

2. Trump orders the death a terrorist Iranian General inside
of Iraqwho was instrumental in the attack and the killing of
thousandsMedia portrayal/narrative: Trump over reacted
and might have committed war crime(s)!

3. Iran shoots an airliner out of the sky
Media portrayal/narrative: If Trump wasn't out of
control this never would have happened.

4. Iran orders a blatant and flagrant coverup
Media portrayal/narrative: Do you see how it's difficult for
the lefties to keep on message and how ordinary Joe and
Mary Sixpack are to support Dem's as they twist and turn
with every change of the narrative?

[msmob]

This will expose the Islamic Republic of Iran for what it is.  Much like the downing of MH 17 revealed the criminality of Putin's Russia. 

And some people believe an insubstantial nuclear deal with the Islamic Republic of Iran was protective of peace and stability.  Idiots!

Another case of the US under 'Trampu' being TOTALLY out of step with her normal allies ... and we're 'idiots' ?


The deal was designed to allow Iran's moderates to gain sway ....

[2tallbill]

The deal was designed to allow Iran's moderates to gain sway ....

No it doesn't! Tell me how that happens.

Here is a copy of the Iran constitution for you to refer to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran#Article_1_(Form_of_Government)

I'll wait for your insight

[BillyB]

Link below has photos showing three different loaders cleaning up crash debri. Moby doesn't trust the Sun so that means it's legit.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10711754/iran-plane-crash-bulldozers-debris-shot-down/

Link below has photos of the head of an SA-15 missile found in a ditch. I searched for the image just in case it was taken before the crash and on somebody elses website but these photos are posted for the first time ever.

http://nypost.com/2020/01/10/photos-reportedly-show-part-of-missile-that-downed-ukrainian-plane-over-iran/

[jone]

The picture, featured in the NY Post and submitted originally by http://twitter.com/ashkanmonfared_ demonstrates what I mentioned above.   That the radar head of the missile separates itself before exploding.   So, typically, the radar head would come down and be able to found and recognized.   

I am wondering how Monfared obtained this picture as it was wiped from social media sites prior to him posting it.

[BillyB]

That the radar head of the missile separates itself before exploding.   So, typically, the radar head would come down and be able to found and recognized.   

The Tor missile defense system was used a lot in Eastern Ukraine. Photos halfway down the page in the link below show numerous heads of the SA-15 missile on the ground after missile blows up.

http://donetsksite.wordpress.com/2017/04/22/zrk-tor-panzir/

[BillyB]

It's official. After denying for days the plane was shot down by a missile and it was a mechanical failure with the engines catching fire that brought the plane down, Iran has found evidence that points to the nation responsible for shooting down the plane.

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-says-unintentionally-shot-down-034030154.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews