Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: Trenchcoat on July 08, 2017, 02:29:48 AM

Title: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 08, 2017, 02:29:48 AM
I think some people are more oblivious to bad signs than others. Though there are all sorts that come up during international dating and it is not always easy to tell. That and if you're coming off second best to local guys then that is likely to show. So try to improve on appearance, money & if you can personality. I know it's tough as there's a lot of competition out there at home in the US as in the UK. Recently I was in a resort with a lot of young guys from England walking around. They were either normal or tone physical appearance. However, the girls they were with were pretty much all fat. Obviously it was all they could get, they weren't all hugely fat and perhaps they had a nice personality but the fact that they could get a relationship without bothering on their weight but they all went with guys that did bother spoke volumes of the amount of effort guys need to make. Sure an odd few guys will come up trumps despite being under par in a few areas as the girl may be naturally into them but doesn't happen often I think. Pretty girls though can be difficult, they know what they are worth and believe me as I am finding out they'll make sure you are paying for it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 08, 2017, 01:07:21 PM
Quote
Pretty girls though can be difficult, they know what they are worth and believe me as I am finding out they'll make sure you are paying for it.


Sounds like the makings of a "beautiful" relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 09, 2017, 12:38:47 PM
I think some people are more oblivious to bad signs than others. Though there are all sorts that come up during international dating and it is not always easy to tell. That and if you're coming off second best to local guys then that is likely to show. So try to improve on appearance, money & if you can personality. I know it's tough as there's a lot of competition out there at home in the US as in the UK. Recently I was in a resort with a lot of young guys from England walking around. They were either normal or tone physical appearance. However, the girls they were with were pretty much all fat. Obviously it was all they could get, they weren't all hugely fat and perhaps they had a nice personality but the fact that they could get a relationship without bothering on their weight but they all went with guys that did bother spoke volumes of the amount of effort guys need to make. Sure an odd few guys will come up trumps despite being under par in a few areas as the girl may be naturally into them but doesn't happen often I think. Pretty girls though can be difficult, they know what they are worth and believe me as I am finding out they'll make sure you are paying for it.


Let me ask you.


If you cannot get a hot smoldering babe in the UK you think you can get one in the former Soyuz? If you think you can, can you tell me what is your basis for accomplishing such a feat?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on July 09, 2017, 01:51:24 PM

Let me ask you.


If you cannot get a hot smoldering babe in the UK you think you can get one in the former Soyuz?

I am guessing you have not read much of this guys posts -- he cannot get ANY woman in the UK  !!
His chances in the FSU are not much higher.

You can see my assessment of him in an earlier thread that  a few others agreed with at that time--and many months later others came to agree with.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 09, 2017, 10:13:25 PM
I am guessing you have not read much of this guys posts -- he cannot get ANY woman in the UK  !!
His chances in the FSU are not much higher.

You can see my assessment of him in an earlier thread that  a few others agreed with at that time--and many months later others came to agree with.

I cannot get any woman in the UK... that I would want.

For instance I could most likely get a fat girl in the UK but I don't find women that are naturally fat attractive, there tends to be no chemistry, genetically I don't think I am geared to be attracted to fat women. Many other guys in the UK are like this also there are only a handful that get turned on by overweight women. I doubt I could get hard over a fat girl and I know a guy who had a girl that was overweight and couldn't get hard and this of course is a problem - she lost weight as she was not a naturally fat and all was good again.

Admittedly I have one or two areas I fall down on as a guy. I wouldn't be on here otherwise, if I was a flash rich dude up for personality of the year award I would have hot women in the UK flocking to me and no need to look abroad. Odds are Jay you have your own shortcomings but I fear your problem may be that you are too proud to admit it and admitting you have shortcomings is a necessary part of making progress in the search for an FSW I think. If you can look yourself in the mirror and know what your shortcomings are then you can be aware, adapt, alleviate, improve etc on these shortcomings. Its something I think OP needs to do without getting into a self-character assassination situation - none of us are perfect after all. He needs to look at why said girl went of after gaining her green card - was he not very wealthy, not very handsome - left himself go, overweight, etc. and her was she a straight 10 and be admirable to many flash guys out there looking for a hot girl. Myself my girl facially is a straight 10 and being very pretty and knowing how competitive things are for women in the UK yes if I brought her back here I would likely have men who think they are so much better than me trying to move in and take her off me - and yes they may well succeed. Do I want to go to all the trouble of bringing a girl to the UK just for some guy to take the pee and take her off me in an instant, no of course not. OP here did that and it looks like that is what he got. I know my shortcomings and OP needs to know his. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 09, 2017, 10:37:45 PM

Let me ask you.


If you cannot get a hot smoldering babe in the UK you think you can get one in the former Soyuz? If you think you can, can you tell me what is your basis for accomplishing such a feat?

I have a hot smoldering babe in the former Soyuz :D And that is the problem, I did not set out to go for a hot smoldering babe she saw my profile and put in for me, if I were to bring her back to UK as I've just stated under Jay's post I would have the fear that other guys that are full of themselves would straight away move in on her. I know what these 'cock of the week' guys are like over here they are full of themselves and think they are self-entitled to move in on any hot babe they so desire.

How did I accomplish such a feat? lol. Admittedly I gain a few points in the Money category for women in Ukraine that I would not do here (Ukraine being a poorer country, good pound to ghrivna exchange rate) Looks category I think I score at least decently on thoughI could do with working out a little and Personality category I'm admittedly not an 'In crowd' party type so don't score highly there - though FSU society seems to place less emphasis on how good with your yap you are unlike the US & UK so its not necessarily as weighty a category. So scoring enough points in the Money & I would hope Looks category was probably enough. The money category is an issue for me as I did not intend for a girl to be attracted to me for that and with her I just need to get to know her better to see exactly what basis we are on with each other. Being an attractive girl it seems to come with a higher maintenance price tag, I mean she's not real uber expensive in terms of wanting jewellery and stuff costing thousands but stuff she wants all mounts up and being a FSU girl she expects me to be paying and this I do find a pain.

So you are living in Cuba? That must be a bit unusual on here.     
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 09, 2017, 10:54:52 PM
Since when was Puerto Rico  'Cuba ? ... 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 09, 2017, 11:05:18 PM
I have a hot smoldering babe in the former Soyuz :D

But DOES he ?   

I'm surprised our Trench isn't worried about what she is getting up to - when not in his presence...For sure, she is going to find out his 'trust' and other issues, soon enough ... [/quote]

How did I accomplish such a feat?

I'll hazard a guess...She 'found' you ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on July 10, 2017, 12:26:36 AM
?   

I'm surprised our Trench

OUR  Trench --  he is not "ours" --he is your ==  pommie git !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 10, 2017, 01:24:58 AM
But DOES he ?   

I'm surprised our Trench isn't worried about what she is getting up to - when not in his presence...For sure, she is going to find out his 'trust' and other issues, soon enough ...

I'll hazard a guess...She 'found' you ?

I 'think' she is not getting up to anything when I am not around, but I don't 'know' that she is not. Why? because I am not living with her on everyday domestic basis and even then as OP found there's no assurances there either.

I'm often reminded on here about my 'trust' issues, OP I assume didn't have any trust issues whatsoever and look what happened there. So is having trust issues particularly with someone I have only known a short while such a bad thing? If anything I am learning that having trust issues on this search is not a bad thing, why not after all safeguard yourself against bad outcomes - there are loads of girls in Ukraine & Russia who go after guys for all sorts of reasons other than the stated that the guy put on his profile, normally that he is looking for a relationship & possibly kids. Yet some girls go with guys after the guy has repeatedly stated what they want and uncaringly waste the guys time, money & effort because they want a free holiday, be bought stuff, free visa, Immigration, etc. Why as a guy should I not protect myself from that than be used by a girl who just does not care about what position I am left in as a result. You yourself Mobe have gone through a divorce with wife - were you done right by in that relationship? Your present relationship will you be getting married there or are there 'trust issues'? I just think it would be a good thing for all those looking for a relationship in the FSU to actually have trust issues and play it carefully. If we all did that then perhaps a lot of the bad girls that seek to mess guys around for their wants would see it as too bothersome and go entertain themselves elsewhere.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 10, 2017, 08:01:08 AM
Since when was Puerto Rico  'Cuba ? ...


They used to call it two birds of a feather.  ;)


He may have a slight problem with color recognition.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 10, 2017, 03:33:20 PM
I have a hot smoldering babe in the former Soyuz :D And that is the problem, I did not set out to go for a hot smoldering babe she saw my profile and put in for me, if I were to bring her back to UK as I've just stated under Jay's post I would have the fear that other guys that are full of themselves would straight away move in on her. I know what these 'cock of the week' guys are like over here they are full of themselves and think they are self-entitled to move in on any hot babe they so desire.

How did I accomplish such a feat? lol. Admittedly I gain a few points in the Money category for women in Ukraine that I would not do here (Ukraine being a poorer country, good pound to ghrivna exchange rate) Looks category I think I score at least decently on thoughI could do with working out a little and Personality category I'm admittedly not an 'In crowd' party type so don't score highly there - though FSU society seems to place less emphasis on how good with your yap you are unlike the US & UK so its not necessarily as weighty a category. So scoring enough points in the Money & I would hope Looks category was probably enough. The money category is an issue for me as I did not intend for a girl to be attracted to me for that and with her I just need to get to know her better to see exactly what basis we are on with each other. Being an attractive girl it seems to come with a higher maintenance price tag, I mean she's not real uber expensive in terms of wanting jewellery and stuff costing thousands but stuff she wants all mounts up and being a FSU girl she expects me to be paying and this I do find a pain.

So you are living in Cuba? That must be a bit unusual on here.   


How much time have you spent together physically?


What sorts of things are you expected to fund?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 10, 2017, 07:36:48 PM
OUR  Trench --  he is not "ours" --he is your ==  pommie git !

When it comes to being associated with Trench, I'm pretending I only have Irish nationality . ;)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 10, 2017, 07:56:03 PM
You yourself Mobe have gone through a divorce with wife - were you done right by in that relationship?

If you'd asked me that at the time, I'd have said, no -  but it is amazing what time can heal. We both did some daft things . Do I regret this time, now? - no way ..  It is easy to say - now - but it is better to have loved and lost - than never to have loved at all.  I wouldn't have met SC and been able to communicate with her - if it hadn't have been for living with V and my step-son for 5 plus years.  We trusted each other to be monogamous  and we were.



Your present relationship will you be getting married there or are there 'trust issues'?

No trust issues, just not divorced - yet = from RU Wife #1 - not for the want of trying - not helped by Courts losing docs - because the Courts handling the Divorce changed - and some confusion over the 'legality' of a certified copy of our Marriage Certificate - not UK

I just think it would be a good thing for all those looking for a relationship in the FSU to actually have trust issues and play it carefully. If we all did that then perhaps a lot of the bad girls that seek to mess guys around for their wants would see it as too bothersome and go entertain themselves elsewhere.

Trench - don't get married ....    Trust is something earnt over time - you really do have trust issues....  and some bizarre reasoning to be looking overseas....

 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 10, 2017, 10:47:57 PM

How much time have you spent together physically?


What sorts of things are you expected to fund?

We have been together physically for 2 weeks now. Now we are apart again and I want to fairly soon move to a situation where we are living together as opposed to a meet up every 6 weeks or so. Apparently she expects me to fund all her clothes purchases (though she goes her clothes shopping mainly when 'the sales' are on so at a discount some of the clothing she chooses is designer label - Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren, Lacoste, etc) also some beauty products/cosmetics, supermarket food, restaurants, etc. She says a 'Real Man' is one who buys stuff for her - apparently the last time she bought clothing was roughly 3 years ago, she works in retail so earns very little and that money goes on rent - I have no reason to doubt that and believe she is telling the truth. We deem our relationship a serious relationship and have stated to each other we shall just see each other, we have been intimate on both occasions together. I personally think she has trouble finding a guy locally as they would simply be not up to her expectation of providing for her. She doesn't go for expensive jewellery (I've bought her no jewellery so far) or clothes costing thousands but it all adds up. I have told her I am not responsible for the lack of clothing she has had - she likes clothes/fashion, she is very girly.

I have reservations about her coming to the UK not only because of the documentation process which looks an ordeal but because I see UK society as bringing no good to a relationship. When we we're on holiday we ate out a lot and I would fear that if she came to the UK to live permanently she would follow the present trend of girls eating out a lot as they socialize and get fat. That's before we get to all the other issues of UK society of feminism, careers, divorce law and of course trading up. She is very pretty facially and at least at the outset before any risk of her getting fat she would be very in demand by UK men. Yes she seems into me but I know UK men and some flash extrovert type would no doubt take it upon himself to push himself upon her as he's birthright. No way am I going to be played for a fool and so the only way forward for me in this or any relationship as I see it is to secure a independent source of income here (which I am now working on) and live of the proceeds in Ukraine or wherever in FSU. In Ukraine the Pound/Dollar/Euro goes a refreshingly long way so I would literally be able to cover rent and bills with independent income from the UK before any use of savings or attempt at a job.

If there were any problems in relationship I would be in the happy position of having a pool of girls to immediately choose from again :D She would be faced with the competition rather than me :D and all my assets are protected :D For me this is the only way that I can see as practical for me in FSU dating otherwise you risk getting problems like OP above. Sure some guys have brought back women to the US or UK straight off and its worked but I get the impression they scored quite highly on most counts on the scorecard to start with.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 10, 2017, 11:04:52 PM
If you'd asked me that at the time, I'd have said, no -  but it is amazing what time can heal. We both did some daft things . Do I regret this time, now? - no way ..  It is easy to say - now - but it is better to have loved and lost - than never to have loved at all.  I wouldn't have met SC and been able to communicate with her - if it hadn't have been for living with V and my step-son for 5 plus years.  We trusted each other to be monogamous  and we were.



No trust issues, just not divorced - yet = from RU Wife #1 - not for the want of trying - not helped by Courts losing docs - because the Courts handling the Divorce changed - and some confusion over the 'legality' of a certified copy of our Marriage Certificate - not UK

Trench - don't get married ....    Trust is something earnt over time - you really do have trust issues....  and some bizarre reasoning to be looking overseas....

I think you're right Moby, not for me to get married at least not for the time being. I have a few issues with girl at present mainly:

1). She seems to be a Shopaholic.

2). Disagreement between us on where to be together and neither of us has so far budged, she wants UK I am wary and suggest elsewhere.

Despite this we seem into each other and I care about her she's a really sweet girl and loving. Yes I have trust issues not just with her but any girl. I would need to get to know girl better over a longer period of time and even then to be honest I would rather play the ball in my court as I would just get too worried if I was reckless in leaving myself vulnerable as OP seems to have done.

I assume when you do finally get divorced your present wife will be going for at least the 50 percent of your assets? possibly more if she has a child even though it is not your own. For your new relationship, what of that? are you going to live/marry abroad and protect yourself or bring her back to the UK leaving yourself potentially vulnerable. After all your new partner may see you as easily taken since you are already being divorced by one FSW how do you know she does not view you as easy pickings.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 11, 2017, 09:03:57 AM
Whenever you hear the words "real man" from an FSUW, you are being manipulated, or there is an attempt at manipulation.  BTW, a FSUM would not be buying his woman clothes, unless she's his wife, or he's wealthy and she's a disposable side piece. 

What is the age difference?

How are you going to support yourself if you move to Ukraine?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 11, 2017, 09:50:34 AM
In Ukraine the Pound/Dollar/Euro goes a refreshingly long way so I would literally be able to cover rent and bills with independent income from the UK before any use of savings or attempt at a job.


This is a misunderstanding of how exchange rate changes work in both theory and practice.

e.g.  Exchange rate was $1 USD to 5 Ukrainian hryvnia.
Now exchange rate is  $1 USD to 26 Ukrainia hryvnia.

So the naive think that their USD, Euro or whatever will buy 5 times as much now as before.

Wrong!!

The prices of many items in Ukraine have gone up by 5 times in terms of hryvnia.

Currency devaluation leads to price inflation in the devaluing country.

And many items, other than basic food items, are priced in terms of USD.

My spouse just returned from Ukraine and she has known for the past several years what has happened to the cost of living for her parents and other relatives.

Many who were living fairly comfortable lives before are now just barely scraping by because costs have risen so dramatically while salaries and pension payments have barely moved.  She now needs to provide support money to relatives who did not need it before.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 11, 2017, 09:55:12 AM
I think you're right Moby, not for me to get married at least not for the time being. I have a few issues with girl at present mainly:

1). She seems to be a Shopaholic.

2). Disagreement between us on where to be together and neither of us has so far budged, she wants UK I am wary and suggest elsewhere.

Despite this we seem into each other and I care about her she's a really sweet girl and loving. Yes I have trust issues not just with her but any girl. I would need to get to know girl better over a longer period of time and even then to be honest I would rather play the ball in my court as I would just get too worried if I was reckless in leaving myself vulnerable as OP seems to have done.

Trench, only you can know this - but it REALLY does seem she is into you for your wallet - if I am wrong and you marry the girl and cewlebrate five years bliis I will stump up the bill at a reasobable place...NOT McDonalds...

Also the UK, immigration process for a Spouse - is not that hard... a bit on the pricy side - about the same as buying a decent 10 year old car...


I assume when you do finally get divorced your present wife will be going for at least the 50 percent of your assets?

Nope, We agreed finances in the formal of an agreement that was witnessed and binding on both of us some years ago.  Basically, We leave as we entered the relationship - although I funded them while we were together. She was no gold-digger.


For your new relationship, what of that? are you going to live/marry abroad and protect yourself or bring her back to the UK leaving yourself potentially vulnerable. After all your new partner may see you as easily taken since you are already being divorced by one FSW how do you know she does not view you as easy pickings.

In the light of my previous answer, you'll note that I am not worried and SC owns her place outright in a very desirable part of an expensive ( for Russia ) city. I do not believe in prenups......
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2017, 10:07:08 AM
This is a misunderstanding of how exchange rate changes work in both theory and practice.

e.g.  Exchange rate was $1 USD to 5 Ukrainian hryvnia.
Now exchange rate is  $1 USD to 26 Ukrainia hryvnia.

So the naive think that their USD, Euro or whatever will buy 5 times as much now as before.

Wrong!!

The prices of many items in Ukraine have gone up by 5 times in terms of hryvnia.

Currency devaluation leads to price inflation in the devaluing country.

And many items, other than basic food items, are priced in terms of USD.

My spouse just returned from Ukraine and she has known for the past several years what has happened to the cost of living for her parents and other relatives.

Many who were living fairly comfortable lives before are now just barely scraping by because costs have risen so dramatically while salaries and pension payments have barely moved.  She now needs to provide support money to relatives who did not need it before.

This is true, when I was there this year I think you could really tell the hyper inflation of the previous two years have taken affect. Things cost a lot more and much more similar to cost in UK. A few things possibly more expensive and an odd few things still much cheaper.

Previous year I'm sure things were generally on the whole much cheaper than this year in Ukraine. I think though the real saving though comes from stuff like hotels or apartments which if choosy enough can be much cheaper than the UK.

Girl I was with this year didn't seem to realise this though that price of clothing was approximately the same as UK. Sure my earning power may have been more than her but it can still all add up a bit.

Above noted it can still be a decent deal in Ukraine compared to shopping in Euros in Europe. My experience in Moscow was that Russia seemed a bit more expensive than Ukraine. You are right though ML the devaluation & inflation of Ukrainian currency has caused much the affect as you've described. Not many Ukrainians were buying much clothing in the shops when I went there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2017, 10:18:54 AM
Whenever you hear the words "real man" from an FSUW, you are being manipulated, or there is an attempt at manipulation.  BTW, a FSUM would not be buying his woman clothes, unless she's his wife, or he's wealthy and she's a disposable side piece. 

What is the age difference?

How are you going to support yourself if you move to Ukraine?

There is a 14 year age difference, she is in her twenties. She contacted me. I initially said the age difference was too much but she was adamant that it was not. You may well be right that she is being manipulative on the Real Man thing - thank you for your input here it not always easy to see when on the inside of a relationship in a foreign situation. I was really looking for a girl nearer my age but she just came up and seemed into me when meeting in Kiev she did on recent holiday also but I think in some ways it was a step back on holiday the Kiev stay had more of a better relationship vibe to it on the whole I thought. We stayed in an apartment and seemed more working towards a relationship I think.

Well, essentially I would take in lodgers in my house to fund my rent/living costs while over there. Then just have savings for back up and see if I can pick up a small amount of English Language teacher work to keep myself a bit occupied.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2017, 10:27:35 AM
Trench, only you can know this - but it REALLY does seem she is into you for your wallet - if I am wrong and you marry the girl and cewlebrate five years bliis I will stump up the bill at a reasobable place...NOT McDonalds...

Also the UK, immigration process for a Spouse - is not that hard... a bit on the pricy side - about the same as buying a decent 10 year old car...


Nope, We agreed finances in the formal of an agreement that was witnessed and binding on both of us some years ago.  Basically, We leave as we entered the relationship - although I funded them while we were together. She was no gold-digger.


In the light of my previous answer, you'll note that I am not worried and SC owns her place outright in a very desirable part of an expensive ( for Russia ) city. I do not believe in prenups......

I'm surprised Moby that your wife agreed to that most women these days will take a guy for all its worth and many know any previous agreements in the divorce courts in the UK may not be respected by the court.

Was it your intention to go for a woman that was quite wealthy as your new partner in the FSU or did it just happen that way?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 11, 2017, 11:27:48 AM
Trench,

Your views on this board are quite jaundiced.  While there are many women who will take a man 'for everything they are worth' the majority of women I know who go through divorce want an equitable split of monies, and, in many cases, want some type of income stream due to the idea that they were home having babies while the husband was increasing his earning capacity.

Also, your idea of wealthy is much different than mine.  The fact that a woman owns her flat in a nice part of the city does not indicate independent wealth.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 11, 2017, 12:50:29 PM
There is a 14 year age difference, she is in her twenties. She contacted me. I initially said the age difference was too much but she was adamant that it was not. You may well be right that she is being manipulative on the Real Man thing - thank you for your input here it not always easy to see when on the inside of a relationship in a foreign situation. I was really looking for a girl nearer my age but she just came up and seemed into me when meeting in Kiev she did on recent holiday also but I think in some ways it was a step back on holiday the Kiev stay had more of a better relationship vibe to it on the whole I thought. We stayed in an apartment and seemed more working towards a relationship I think.

Well, essentially I would take in lodgers in my house to fund my rent/living costs while over there. Then just have savings for back up and see if I can pick up a small amount of English Language teacher work to keep myself a bit occupied.

Only a certain "layer" of their society uses words such as "real man".   

Do you think a local man would be buying her make up and clothing after a couple of weeks of shagging? 

Ukraine, presently, is a dead end.  As I understand it, you are in your mid thirties, entering your peak earning years.  Why would you throw that away? Plus, anyone who consistently fails to recognize the difference between a possessive pronoun and a contraction has no business teaching English.

If you really believe she is "the one", then fund her study in the UK and don't marry her.  Yes, it will cost you money, but less than a failed marriage. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2017, 03:04:53 PM

Only a certain "layer" of their society uses words such as "real man".   


Do you think a local man would be buying her make up and clothing after a couple of weeks of shagging? 


Ukraine, presently, is a dead end.  As I understand it, you are in your mid thirties, entering your peak earning years.  Why would you throw that away?  If you really believe she is "the one", then fund her study in the UK and don't marry her.  Yes, it will cost you money, but less than a failed marriage.

What 'layer' is that?

No I pretty sure a local guy would not be buying her all that clothing stuff. I very much doubt he would be able to afford it. I brought this up with her she seems to think it is different for foreigners. Apparently her friend is going out with a foreigner and he buys her lots of clothes. She expresses that she is a girl and as such likes clothes. I know that because she is hot and young that she may feel that by going out with an older guy that she should get all that stuff coming to her. Personally though I think it has been damaging to our relationship. I think I felt more on relationship terms when in Kiev and I bought her much less. Anyway she seems to refuse to accept that she shouldn't get bought stuff. I never set out to be a sugar daddy lol or believed this to be part of our relationship. I think your right Boethius in that I am going to have to express my misgivings over it and stipulate that she will not be bought any more unless we are married. I just see the relationship not working out otherwise and that is something I would not wish for.

Why give up on earning income? Basically without being in a loving relationship life is pretty empty and I don't feel motivated anyway, there is no real reason to need a lot of money if it is just me, nor a need to bother with a career ladder. In any case while my line of work bring in ok sort of money like many careers in the UK these days the money is not great even as a degree qualified professional. So I'm not giving up as much as you might suppose.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Brasscasing on July 11, 2017, 03:50:32 PM
What 'layer' is that?

Boethius has a certain view of FSU women who use the term "real man". I don't particularly agree with her views on the subject but contained within this rather amusing thread is a discussion and a link to another topic discussing the "real man" issue which I'll link here as well.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21311.msg447957#msg447957

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21138.msg440511#msg440511

Brass
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 11, 2017, 03:59:10 PM
What 'layer' is that?

No I pretty sure a local guy would not be buying her all that clothing stuff. I very much doubt he would be able to afford it. I brought this up with her she seems to think it is different for foreigners. Apparently her friend is going out with a foreigner and he buys her lots of clothes. She expresses that she is a girl and as such likes clothes. I know that because she is hot and young that she may feel that by going out with an older guy that she should get all that stuff coming to her. Personally though I think it has been damaging to our relationship. I think I felt more on relationship terms when in Kiev and I bought her much less. Anyway she seems to refuse to accept that she shouldn't get bought stuff. I never set out to be a sugar daddy lol or believed this to be part of our relationship. I think your right Boethius in that I am going to have to express my misgivings over it and stipulate that she will not be bought any more unless we are married. I just see the relationship not working out otherwise and that is something I would not wish for.

What you have to understand is your 'relationship' maybe in her eyes is she gave you what you wanted , now she gets what she wants....pure and simple.

And old girlfriend once told me about a guy she first met(Ukrainian) in Odesa. He gave her some money to take taxi home from club. Afterward, she learned he walked home that night since he had no money left. She was keen on him because of this. After a few years, baby in tow, he is still out working to help support her and daughter. This is called giving all you can. Although I never gave her money for clothes, I did send some money for English classes, about $150 spread over several months.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 11, 2017, 09:14:16 PM
I'm surprised Moby that your wife agreed to that

That you are surprised should be the first of the many misconceptions you need to address.

many know any previous agreements in the divorce courts in the UK may not be respected by the court.

Then they don't know... A financial agreement made in conjunction with separation is rarely set aside if both parties agreed to it and no pressure was brought to bear.

Was it your intention to go for a woman that was quite wealthy as your new partner in the FSU or did it just happen that way?

If my intention was financial gain, I would have married a high flying UK divorcee with a big house or two and asizeable income. ..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 06:31:20 AM
What you have to understand is your 'relationship' maybe in her eyes is she gave you what you wanted , now she gets what she wants....pure and simple.

And old girlfriend once told me about a guy she first met(Ukrainian) in Odesa. He gave her some money to take taxi home from club. Afterward, she learned he walked home that night since he had no money left. She was keen on him because of this. After a few years, baby in tow, he is still out working to help support her and daughter. This is called giving all you can. Although I never gave her money for clothes, I did send some money for English classes, about $150 spread over several months.

Sugar, sugar, Honey, honey :D

You mean no sugar no honey :(

You could well be right LA Man, I'm just going to have to discuss some more about all this shopping lark as I can't see continuing on that basis as a good thing if there is something of that to it. Its more an actual family setting I am after, if some sort of reasonable agreement on what she gets in terms of clothes shopping can be hammered out then I would not necessarily be opposed to that I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 06:46:59 AM
That you are surprised should be the first of the many misconceptions you need to address.

Then they don't know... A financial agreement made in conjunction with separation is rarely set aside if both parties agreed to it and no pressure was brought to bear.

If my intention was financial gain, I would have married a high flying UK divorcee with a big house or two and asizeable income. ..

So kind of like an out of court divorce agreement. Why did she agree if she could clearly take you for more? Many women these days would not hesitate. If she agreed to less on the basis of what she came into the marriage with then this is very usual these days and she would seem to be a decent person and you were lucky in that at least.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 06:58:19 AM
Only a certain "layer" of their society uses words such as "real man".   

She comes from a proletarian area if that is what you mean so you are right in that. It kind of surprised me how she carried on though, like a spoilt LA teenager - i.e from a poor background but acting like all I was providing for her was a day to day occurrence in her life - nice hotels, clothes & beauty product shopping, eats out in many restaurants. She was in my opinion worse attitude than in Kiev on our first meet - kind of brattish.

I think you are right in the other threads of a 'real man' displaying a kind of attitude. I am going to have to put her in her place I think, I know she expects more from a foreign guy than she would get at home as a default regardless of who it is or perhaps how much she is into him but I see no good coming off it if she doesn't get reigned in. The way I see it she now has clothing she somewhat lacked and I'm calling a halt to it. I will make it clear there will be no clothes shopping etc on future meets and only in marriage etc will I be paying for any more.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 12, 2017, 07:46:05 AM
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2017, 11:39:32 AM
She comes from a proletarian area if that is what you mean so you are right in that. It kind of surprised me how she carried on though, like a spoilt LA teenager - i.e from a poor background but acting like all I was providing for her was a day to day occurrence in her life - nice hotels, clothes & beauty product shopping, eats out in many restaurants. She was in my opinion worse attitude than in Kiev on our first meet - kind of brattish.

I think you are right in the other threads of a 'real man' displaying a kind of attitude. I am going to have to put her in her place I think, I know she expects more from a foreign guy than she would get at home as a default regardless of who it is or perhaps how much she is into him but I see no good coming off it if she doesn't get reigned in. The way I see it she now has clothing she somewhat lacked and I'm calling a halt to it. I will make it clear there will be no clothes shopping etc on future meets and only in marriage etc will I be paying for any more.


No, you misunderstood me. 

The term "real man" as used here is not a direct translation.  A direct translation of "real man" (in Russian) is "настоящий мужик".  But that term means a man who is heroical, or a man of action, or it's used sarcastically (just a few examples).  It does not correspond with what I am referring to.  The term used by FSUW with WM is discussed on FSUW forums, and its purpose is manipulation.  I'm not suggesting all FSUW, in fact, most are decent and looking for a normal life.  I'm referring to a particular subset.  They also refer to what they can "claw" out of WM.  If you read these terms,  you would not understand them, as they are in slang, often slang that started with criminals, and can't be google translated.  That, I believe, is intentional.

Muzh's eyeroll was because he knows what is going on.  These are general comments, not directed at you, in particular, but to archetypes, as I don't know your relationship.  But I'll use it as an example.  So, don't be offended, just think.

What have you got to offer a girl in her (early?) twenties? (I assume she is under 25?)  I doubt you are David Beckham's doppleganger.  So, your value as a close to middle aged WM is in providing her comfort - material comfort - and security - a life in the West.  She can find plenty of UM her age who are better looking than you, and better in bed.  But they don't have euros/dollars/pounds to spend on her, nor a foreign passport, which is a gateway to a more stable and prosperous life.   She is playing the long game, which is why she seduced you, probably within your first three days together (and likely let you believe it was the other way around).  So, if you have that conversation with her, she will either (a)  Dump you and find another WM who is more "generous"; or (b) Agree and play the long game.

You cannot win trying to adapt to her culture or using what you assume are "appropriate" responses to elicit certain reactions.  The culture is completely foreign to you, and you don't have the cultural cues to succeed at it.  It's a losing game, anyway.  Always be who you are.  You can't have a successful relationship being someone else.  Also, examine what it is you are really looking for.  Be brutally honest with yourself in that assessment, and what it is you offer her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 12, 2017, 12:05:51 PM
She comes from a proletarian area if that is what you mean so you are right in that. It kind of surprised me how she carried on though, like a spoilt LA teenager - i.e from a poor background but acting like all I was providing for her was a day to day occurrence in her life - nice hotels, clothes & beauty product shopping, eats out in many restaurants. She was in my opinion worse attitude than in Kiev on our first meet - kind of brattish.

I think you are right in the other threads of a 'real man' displaying a kind of attitude. I am going to have to put her in her place I think, I know she expects more from a foreign guy than she would get at home as a default regardless of who it is or perhaps how much she is into him but I see no good coming off it if she doesn't get reigned in. The way I see it she now has clothing she somewhat lacked and I'm calling a halt to it. I will make it clear there will be no clothes shopping etc on future meets and only in marriage etc will I be paying for any more.


What is her attitude about working? If she's willing then that would help out the war effort.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 12, 2017, 12:16:04 PM
Sugar, sugar, Honey, honey :D

You mean no sugar no honey :(

No..." No money , no honey" ..

So kind of like an out of court divorce agreement.

No.. it's a "financial separation agreement" - made by couples separating - and can cover post divorce arrangements - Such agreements are readily downloadable from UK legal websites.

Why did she agree if she could clearly take you for more?

You'd have to ask her and likely she'd tell you to mind your own....;) We are on good terms, now. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 12:34:35 PM

What is her attitude about working? If she's willing then that would help out the war effort.

Good to hear from you on here Steamer I recall you from earlier threads. Well my thoughts exactly I put forward to her a solution whereby we could live in an EU country where we both can speak the language and earn. She would be earning more than in Ukraine and would have not rent costs to pay just pay for the groceries and the rest to spend on herself or save in case she needed to help her parents out in future. This seemed a good solution to me but no she wants the UK. She was apparently oblivious to the fact that in the west women earn approximately the same as men and most go halves/take care of their own spending. She pulled a funny face at that, she hasn't directly said no but I really don't see her taking to the idea. It's a shame as of she was spending her own money she would then realise the worth of it. As it is with mine she really just doesn't seem to care. If I brought her to UK I doubt I would get much help out if her so it would be a mistake. I think she might well go about finding a really rich guy to suit her needs. I'm just going to have to play this carefully I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 12, 2017, 12:58:47 PM
Good to hear from you on here Steamer I recall you from earlier threads. Well my thoughts exactly I put forward to her a solution whereby we could live in an EU country where we both can speak the language and earn. She would be earning more than in Ukraine and would have not rent costs to pay just pay for the groceries and the rest to spend on herself or save in case she needed to help her parents out in future. This seemed a good solution to me but no she wants the UK. She was apparently oblivious to the fact that in the west women earn approximately the same as men and most go halves/take care of their own spending. She pulled a funny face at that, she hasn't directly said no but I really don't see her taking to the idea. It's a shame as of she was spending her own money she would then realise the worth of it. As it is with mine she really just doesn't seem to care. If I brought her to UK I doubt I would get much help out if her so it would be a mistake. I think she might well go about finding a really rich guy to suit her needs. I'm just going to have to play this carefully I think.

Could be she wants the destination more than the individual.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 12, 2017, 01:48:49 PM
I think she might well go about finding a really rich guy to suit her needs. I'm just going to have to play this carefully I think.

If you really think that then you need to dump her and move
on. Don't try to fix broken people, there are plenty enough
FSUW that aren't broken running around.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2017, 03:10:44 PM
She was apparently oblivious to the fact that in the west women earn approximately the same as men


Most WW do not earn the same as men.  But even if they did, she is not a WW, and she does not have the same earning potential as a native.

Quote

and most go halves/take care of their own spending.


But that is not a traditional relationship.  You stated you are traditional.  So, what is it?  Do you want an emancipated woman paying half of everything , or do you want a traditional woman who relies on you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on July 12, 2017, 04:31:40 PM

No..." No money , no honey" ..

No.. it's a "financial separation agreement" - made by couples separating - and can cover post divorce arrangements - Such agreements are readily downloadable from UK legal websites.

You'd have to ask her and likely she'd tell you to mind your own....;) We are on good terms, now. 

The agreements are mostly vacated by courts in the United States today.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 04:46:57 PM


No, you misunderstood me. 

The term "real man" as used here is not a direct translation.  A direct translation of "real man" (in Russian) is "настоящий мужик".  But that term means a man who is heroical, or a man of action, or it's used sarcastically (just a few examples).  It does not correspond with what I am referring to.  The term used by FSUW with WM is discussed on FSUW forums, and its purpose is manipulation.  I'm not suggesting all FSUW, in fact, most are decent and looking for a normal life.  I'm referring to a particular subset.  They also refer to what they can "claw" out of WM.  If you read these terms,  you would not understand them, as they are in slang, often slang that started with criminals, and can't be google translated.  That, I believe, is intentional.

Muzh's eyeroll was because he knows what is going on.  These are general comments, not directed at you, in particular, but to archetypes, as I don't know your relationship.  But I'll use it as an example.  So, don't be offended, just think.

What have you got to offer a girl in her (early?) twenties? (I assume she is under 25?)  I doubt you are David Beckham's doppleganger.  So, your value as a close to middle aged WM is in providing her comfort - material comfort - and security - a life in the West.  She can find plenty of UM her age who are better looking than you, and better in bed.  But they don't have euros/dollars/pounds to spend on her, nor a foreign passport, which is a gateway to a more stable and prosperous life.   She is playing the long game, which is why she seduced you, probably within your first three days together (and likely let you believe it was the other way around).  So, if you have that conversation with her, she will either (a)  Dump you and find another WM who is more "generous"; or (b) Agree and play the long game.

You cannot win trying to adapt to her culture or using what you assume are "appropriate" responses to elicit certain reactions.  The culture is completely foreign to you, and you don't have the cultural cues to succeed at it.  It's a losing game, anyway.  Always be who you are.  You can't have a successful relationship being someone else.  Also, examine what it is you are really looking for.  Be brutally honest with yourself in that assessment, and what it is you offer her.


What about natural chemistry? Could that not happen between an age gap such as this? I'm not saying it is what there is here. In all honesty its looking like in this case going for a guy that can provide for her is a motivating factor. Looks wise I could improve a bit if I were to tone up a bit, but I think you are right, I think there is probably quite a big pool of women in the FSU, particularly Ukraine who are after WM that can provide for them rather than WM for natural attraction. Of course the big issue is that bringing such a girl back to the west what is the chance they may quickly be then looking for an upgrade particularly if they notice men taking an interest with more money, natural attraction, personality to their liking.

I'm not trying to be someone else, or at least I hope not, perhaps she misconstrued me as someone else a man of many means perhaps. I'm really just looking for a girl where there is natural chemistry between us and a desire to have children soon. In terms of what I can offer a girl I would say of course a better lifestyle, more comfortable, but I expect the girl to pitch in a little, it does not have to be full time work just carry her own weight a bit, financially speaking. What I'm not too keen on though is a girl that just wants to hang off me expecting me to spend my money without concern and not get to the family situation I want to be in. So with this girl unless I can sort out some sort of a situation that will suit us both moving forward may be difficult to impossible I fear. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2017, 05:05:30 PM

Most WW do not earn the same as men.  But even if they did, she is not a WW, and she does not have the same earning potential as a native.



But that is not a traditional relationship.  You stated you are traditional.  So, what is it?  Do you want an emancipated woman paying half of everything , or do you want a traditional woman who relies on you?

I would say a part time job where she could spend the money on clothing and stuff she wants to buy would work fine by me and still be in keeping with the traditional aspect as many women in the past did part time work or gender defined work such as secretary, etc. She works at the moment in retail but if she worked in the west she would get paid a better rate in retail. She has a degree in management though and  my thought is that she may be want to come to the west for that - she would earn a lot more doing that and I think would be good at it as she is very organisational & in some way leadership orientated. I don't see the out come to me doing me any good though other than being a stepping stone. If she had a child with me first it would alleviate this fear I think, but brazenly being used as a stepping stone is not something I am going to go along with. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2017, 05:27:00 PM
That's not very "traditional".


You are looking at this from a perspective of "What's in it for me?"  It's not the path to a long lasting relationship, not even one that starts with love (which I don't think is the case, if what you describe is accurate).


If you truly believe this girl may use you as a stepping stone, then she is not the girl for you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 12, 2017, 05:53:41 PM
If you really think that then you need to dump her and move
on. Don't try to fix broken people, there are plenty enough
FSUW that aren't broken running around.

trenchcoat , here is the best advice

there is an old saying ''start off as you mean to continue ''

in your case it seems you have not done that and now wish to move the goal posts on her behaviour ?   if you  have spent easily on her from the start with an age gap so big then you have created this issue largely from the get go

i can not see this ending in marriage , or at least a succesful one

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 12, 2017, 06:40:08 PM
If you really think that then you need to dump her and move on. Don't try to fix broken people, there are plenty enough FSUW that aren't broken running around.

This is what I can't figure out.  Trenchcoat has enumerated one red flag after another, and yet he still seems to be in this post-coital daze of "wow, my girlfriend is a 10!"  How many times have posters here told newbies (and others) to stop thinking with their little heads and use the brain with which they've been supplied?  In every other post he bangs on about how she's using him for shopping and so on - can't he see that this attitude won't change?

I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on July 12, 2017, 06:57:50 PM


I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

Yeah-- how hard can it be for him to create another imaginary "girlfriend" ? :deadhorse: :wallbash:

I have to say-- I am amazed that an inflatable could actually go shopping ! :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 12, 2017, 08:23:45 PM

I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!

But he should first provide her contact info to other interested guys here.

And URL of performances to all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 12, 2017, 08:26:07 PM
She can find plenty of UM her age who are better looking than you, and better in bed. 

Hey . . . that hurts !!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2017, 09:44:35 PM
Well, reality is not always pleasant.

I certainly don't wish Trenchcoat any harm, but what he describes just screams "arrangement".

I know a UW here, met her through the community, who married a WM.  She did so to get residency.  He had an excellent job, and is a good guy.  She got pregnant, and while pregnant, forged his signature on a visa application for her mother (required as one must show support means for visitors from certain countries).  As soon as her mother arrived, she threw her husband out and demanded a divorce.  She demanded he buy her a property, which he did.  She wanted maintenance for their daughter, but no visitation for him.  Of course, she was in Canada, so he has generous visitation, which irks her to no end, even though she didn't want the child, only the income the child brings her, and is an indifferent mother.  Her mother is still here, as she is from the war zone, and has claimed refugee status.  The UW has made that man's life a living hell, and he still does not understand what really happened, that she never had an intention of building a life with him.  He, too, assumed they had "chemistry", probably still does.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 12, 2017, 10:07:20 PM
Boethius has a certain view of FSU women who use the term "real man". I don't particularly agree with her views ...

I'd point out that

1/ She is a women

2/ Her heritage is FSU

3/ Boethius LIVED in Ukraine ..

I know who's views I'd rather trust ... ;)

BTW, I don't think the thread is 'silly' ...we have a member who seems hell-bent on throwing money on a 'relationship' that has trainwreck written all over it ... 

The fact that the member is stubborn in defending warnings may actually mean he won't be a poster who disappears when the warnings become reality.

In the meantime, he is better prepared and will learn much, possibly have a good time ( sometimes) while it lasts and he is  - at least - still getting on that plane.

Personally, I'd rather read his story - and other TRs - than some of the political crap ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2017, 12:28:10 AM
Well, reality is not always pleasant.

I certainly don't wish Trenchcoat any harm, but what he describes just screams "arrangement".

I know a UW here, met her through the community, who married a WM.  She did so to get residency.  He had an excellent job, and is a good guy.  She got pregnant, and while pregnant, forged his signature on a visa application for her mother (required as one must show support means for visitors from certain countries).  As soon as her mother arrived, she threw her husband out and demanded a divorce.  She demanded he buy her a property, which he did.  She wanted maintenance for their daughter, but no visitation for him.  Of course, she was in Canada, so he has generous visitation, which irks her to no end, even though she didn't want the child, only the income the child brings her, and is an indifferent mother.  Her mother is still here, as she is from the war zone, and has claimed refugee status.  The UW has made that man's life a living hell, and he still does not understand what really happened, that she never had an intention of building a life with him.  He, too, assumed they had "chemistry", probably still does.

So the good job meant she saw him as a target for generous child support payments, though I guess he at least got a child out of the debacle unlike the OP of this original thread. Kind of shows how warped she is that she seems to expect child maintenance payments but does not want him to have access. This is what I mean when I point to the uncaring attitude of FSW that use men for immigration, holidays or whatever then toss them aside without even thinking of how what they are doing is affecting them.

Well there was no formal agreement to an arrangement of she gives me this I give her that. Possibly it is an arrangement of how she might want things to work in her head - and to that end it doesn't look to do me any good to go down the path she wants to. I am certainly not going to bring her into the UK not even on a short stay. It will have to be everything done in Ukraine or not at all.

I do also apologize Boethius if I got a bit carried away in our discussions in other threads I was perhaps a bit too quick to judge. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2017, 12:33:43 AM
This is what I can't figure out.  Trenchcoat has enumerated one red flag after another, and yet he still seems to be in this post-coital daze of "wow, my girlfriend is a 10!"  How many times have posters here told newbies (and others) to stop thinking with their little heads and use the brain with which they've been supplied?  In every other post he bangs on about how she's using him for shopping and so on - can't he see that this attitude won't change?

I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

The red flags were not really there to start with or were not so apparent - namely that she wants into the UK, she is against me going to see her in her home city & shopaholic. The shop problem came forward a bit on the first visit but I thought we reached an agreement on it to keep it slow but steady. I think I have gained experience from this though even though it was more costly than I would have liked and enjoyed myself along the way.

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2017, 12:58:53 AM
Thanks Moby :D

I know some of my theories have been wrong at times on here as I feel my way around the FSU dating scene, but to be honest there are other members that have fouled up too I remember back last year when Guppy Captain was using Mordinson for the second time and once again it not working out for him. I recall the first time he ended up taking girl to Budapest on holiday and it then not working out. For sure Holidays don't really seem to be the way to go when getting into a relationship with a FSW and best avoided, I enjoyed my time on holiday but in so far as building upon the relationship I think it did nothing on that.

I'm not though for quitting on this venture, the way I see it the more experience both on here and in the field the more able I become at this. The FSU dating scene seems to evolve over time and what worked well several years ago can be a minefield of scammers several years later. Part of the reason I don't mind posting about my trials & tribulations on here apart from seeking help for myself is to aid other in this journey so they are not easy game for women that have ideas other than meeting a guy to be with. The way I see it is I try to be decent myself in dealing with others so why should other decent guys and I believe most are that are genuinely seeking a foreign wife be done over by the unscrupulous its just not nice to do to anyone.

Anyway, I am not too bothered with giving girl the push in any haste, I kind of care about her and have affection towards her even though I accept it is not at the moment looking good. For what its worth there was some small green flags along the way and these seemed genuine but I think we have moved from that and now in a position where I am too wary to follow what she wants.

So working on the assumption that she will continue to stubbornly move from her position which she has done so far. I will spend the next few months working on my next attempt at this properly, taking in lodgers into my home so I have an independent source of income so I can go out to FSU countries and date as the natives do, make out it is a permanent relocation to avoid immigration scammers and get access to lot of women to date and have a comfortable life with out there for a while before I come back with them to UK when I am sure they are sound enough to do so. For me the thought of having hours of my time each week from the UK taken up with messaging those that may turn out to be interested in something other than a real relationship is time I can do without being wasted. The way I see it is that if they are straight up they will turn up for a meeting or not at all which will suit me fine.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2017, 10:45:10 AM
So the good job meant she saw him as a target for generous child support payments, though I guess he at least got a child out of the debacle unlike the OP of this original thread. Kind of shows how warped she is that she seems to expect child maintenance payments but does not want him to have access. This is what I mean when I point to the uncaring attitude of FSW that use men for immigration, holidays or whatever then toss them aside without even thinking of how what they are doing is affecting them.

For her, the child was just a way to secure a steady source of income.  That could happen with WW as well, but most educated WM marry WW with their own careers, so the effect is somewhat ameliorated.

This type of behaviour was common in Soviet times as well,  Because successive Ukrainian governments failed to create a new identity for Ukrainians after the collapse of the USSR, those behaviours have continued.  Just the targets have changed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2017, 04:05:29 PM

Boethius, you were saying in the original part of this this thread that a girl may have hang ups about visiting her home city beaus of gossip as everyone knows everyone. Do you think this might be the case with my girl? Although we have stated to each other our relationship is serious we have only met up twice for a week together at a time. And Skype in between. Contact online first occurred about six months ago. We do not live in together with each other so perhaps we aren't in a permanent relationship. I would want to live in with her but she seems to be reluctant for this to happen in her home city. I know second girl I met in her home city last year in Nikolaev did not want to meet me in the hotel restaurant as locals would know. (Asking hear so as to not intrude on other thread)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2017, 05:14:49 PM
It likely is one of three things:

1.  She does not want gossip.  Westerners don't understand how common this is, and how connected people there are.   
2.  She is embarrassed by her living conditions.
3.  She has a boyfriend.  He may even know about you, but it's related to 1.

I would hazard a guess it is #1, and it is no big deal, really, until couples are marrying.  It is not an indication of a scam.  Her choosing someone so much older (if she's under 25) and, if what you say is accurate, disparate looks wise, is far more of an issue.  The spending is also somewhat of an issue, because it reveals a particular mindset, coupled with manipulation (If you're a "real man" . . . ).  Meeting in a woman's home city generally is probably less of an issue for women over 30. 

You have stated this girl is adamant about settling in the UK.  She probably chose you partly because you are in the UK, so you are sort of changing the ground rules on her. 

Kherson is not somewhere you would want to live. If you are going to live in Ukraine, live in Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, or L'viv.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2017, 05:38:57 PM
The FSU dating scene seems to evolve over time and what worked well several years ago can be a minefield of scammers several years later.


No, I don't think that is accurate.  The number of scammers and the scams they run, are always the same. 



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 13, 2017, 06:54:36 PM
The red flags were not really there to start with or were not so apparent - namely that she wants into the UK, she is against me going to see her in her home city & shopaholic. The shop problem came forward a bit on the first visit but I thought we reached an agreement on it to keep it slow but steady.

Fine - but why are you still with her when this has become such an issue?  As the Americans on here would say: "Dump her sorry ass!"

I think I have gained experience from this though even though it was more costly than I would have liked and enjoyed myself along the way.

Stop emphasising the money issues!  Everyone who has read your posts knows that you're a cheap sod - you don't have to keep bringing it up.  The enjoyment factor is what is preventing you from moving on with your life - dump this girl, and find someone else to enjoy life with.  Who knows, you might actually find someone who really DOES see you as more than a walking credit card.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 13, 2017, 10:13:10 PM
Kiwi,

If he is a walking credit card, I'm sure he walks with a cane.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 14, 2017, 01:59:32 AM
It likely is one of three things:

1.  She does not want gossip.  Westerners don't understand how common this is, and how connected people there are.   
2.  She is embarrassed by her living conditions.
3.  She has a boyfriend.  He may even know about you, but it's related to 1.

I would hazard a guess it is #1, and it is no big deal, really, until couples are marrying.  It is not an indication of a scam.  Her choosing someone so much older (if she's under 25) and, if what you say is accurate, disparate looks wise, is far more of an issue.  The spending is also somewhat of an issue, because it reveals a particular mindset, coupled with manipulation (If you're a "real man" . . . ).  Meeting in a woman's home city generally is probably less of an issue for women over 30. 

You have stated this girl is adamant about settling in the UK.  She probably chose you partly because you are in the UK, so you are sort of changing the ground rules on her. 

Kherson is not somewhere you would want to live. If you are going to live in Ukraine, live in Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, or L'viv.

Thanks Boethius I think you could be right here in it being number 1. Also I think some of number 2 also, when I was with her in Kiev we were eating in an area with concrete residential block behind, I made some comment, not bad but in reference to the old style soviet era of the blocks. Anyway it seemed to me at least that she looked a little queasy when mentioning this and it was then I thought its probably the exact same type of building she lives in - it does not matter to me where she lives as I am into her, living locations at any rate can be changed were we to get any deeper into relationship.

For me I couldn't care less what people gossip about but for her it may well be different, they have all that peculiarity over hotels after all. It must be a strong force in her mind like the refusal to do hotel as she seems very opposed to me going and for me I couldn't fathom why I thought it would be a perfectly natural thing to do particularly after a couple of destinations away.

I got to say though I am still cautious, no I don't think she is part of any organised scam operation the way she goes about stuff is not like that - for example she does not ask to keep receipts to stuff bought. Could she just be interested in immigration scam - maybe, at this point its difficult to tell how much she is into me set against how much into coming to UK. I just want to make sure she is into me and I'm not going to be used as a mule. Her seemingly uncaring nature to spending my money on holiday did not give me cause for optimism - would she be equally uncaring about using me for immigration then ditching me and upgrading as some see it - possibly I wonder.

Hence why I want to live in Ukraine with her to really get to know her out of the week's meet up here and there. I think us living together in a domestic situation would suit us best. This looks unlikely though if what you suggest is the case. I don't think she has a boyfriend there, there is nothing on her social media, vk and it looks like she has started that some time ago. She does not know I know of her vk page though I think in this day and age its fair to assume that she would have thought that I might find it and if had a bf could sanitize it for purpose. She has stated to me she does not have a bf in the past and her reply seemed genuine as far as I could tell anyway.

Anyway, so my thought on this at the moment are either live in Kherson in the future for a short while almost undercover as a English Language Teacher and rent out a separate apartment which she justs visits for 'tuition' ;D or ask her to live with me in a nearby city live Nikolaev or Odessa but this would of course entail her giving up her job so I'm not sure she would go for that. I 'm thinking though at any rate it may be worth messaging her and finding out if rumour, gossip, reputation is the reason behind it all, what do you think as the way forward on this?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 14, 2017, 09:00:30 AM

 live in Kherson in the future for a short while almost undercover as a English Language Teacher

This idea of teaching English comes up frequently on this forum.

But there are only 1 out of 100 of us who could actually teach English.

Many assume that if you grew up with a language, you can teach it.
Totally false.

While we may speak and write a language fairly correctly . . . we can in no way explain to a questioner why we are using certain words in certain places as opposed to other words or forms of a word.

The most we can hope for is that we can talk with those who are learning and read to them . . . just so they can become more accustomed to hearing our language and pick up pronunciation knowledge.

But actually teaching English . . . no way.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 14, 2017, 10:39:46 AM
I am certainly not going to bring her into the UK not even on a short stay. It will have to be everything done in Ukraine or not at all.

I was perhaps a bit too quick to judge.

I didn't read everything, I don't have the time or the interest to watch
soap opera's either.

Trench, use the brain above your shoulders and not the one in your Willie.
My advice is that if you've found a girl who you wouldn't bring home to ole
Blighty or anywhere else on the planet then she's not a keeper.

If she's not a keeper, then dump her and move on. The sooner you do the
sooner she can find her true love and the sooner you can find the Future
Mrs Trenchie.

I would take Angel Eyes anyplace, anytime, anywhere, with pride and I trust
her in any situation. She might not know a thing about guns, but if I were in
a wild west gunfight and she was at my side, I know for sure that she would
be screaming like the Indians at Little Bighorn and that the lead would be flying.

If you don't absolutely, positively and completely trust this girl with no reservations
inside and out then she isn't the girl for you. Dump her and go find your gunfighter. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 14, 2017, 11:03:20 AM
This idea of teaching English comes up frequently on this forum.

But there are only 1 out of 100 of us who could actually teach English.

Many assume that if you grew up with a language, you can teach it.
Totally false.

While we may speak and write a language fairly correctly . . . we can in no way explain to a questioner why we are using certain words in certain places as opposed to other words or forms of a word.

The most we can hope for is that we can talk with those who are learning and read to them . . . just so they can become more accustomed to hearing our language and pick up pronunciation knowledge.

But actually teaching English . . . no way.



I know Ecocks (I probably got his name wrong) made a few shekels teaching
business English to businessmen in Ukraine. If I were going to try teaching
English (which I'm not going to do). I would try something like that with a
couple of English teachers for backup.

Set them up in sales situations where the customer was English speaking and
coach them on how to improve. That way I was primarily teaching them something
that I consider myself a professional at, and using some real English teachers for
their expertise.

The real English teachers can teach them how to diagram a sentence and how,
where, when and why we use articles in a sentence (which Russians find difficult
to understand) and I could work on helping them polish up their proposals, sales 
presentations, pronunciation and business to business acumen. 99% of the
Russian English teachers have outrageous accents, so maybe I would add a
speech therapist to help them pronounce words correctly. Where their teeth
and lips go when they say Vodka and not Wodka and how to say the short i
like in Bill instead of Beeel. 

That's what I would do if I had any interest in trying to teach in the FSU. 

edit to add.

There is a Russian woman Anastasia Ash that used to come here to the
forum that actually doesn't have a Russian accent. If I were going to do
something like this I would definitely pick her brain and Ecocks.

What you want is to offer something that they actually need. English teachers
in the FSU are a dime a dozen and that's how they are paid too. You need to
offer something that is rare, valuable and difficult to find in order to make
more than a few kopecks.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 14, 2017, 01:12:49 PM
For me I couldn't care less what people gossip about but for her it may well be different, they have all that peculiarity over hotels after all. It must be a strong force in her mind like the refusal to do hotel as she seems very opposed to me going and for me I couldn't fathom why I thought it would be a perfectly natural thing to do particularly after a couple of destinations away.

It is very different. 

Quote
I got to say though I am still cautious, no I don't think she is part of any organised scam operation the way she goes about stuff is not like that - for example she does not ask to keep receipts to stuff bought. Could she just be interested in immigration scam - maybe, at this point its difficult to tell how much she is into me set against how much into coming to UK. I just want to make sure she is into me and I'm not going to be used as a mule. Her seemingly uncaring nature to spending my money on holiday did not give me cause for optimism - would she be equally uncaring about using me for immigration then ditching me and upgrading as some see it - possibly I wonder.

I have no doubt she is not part of an "organized" scam.  But she may sell some of the clothes if she needs cash - she would sell them at a market, for less than you paid for them.  Very common in Ukraine. 

Quote
Hence why I want to live in Ukraine with her to really get to know her out of the week's meet up here and there. I think us living together in a domestic situation would suit us best. This looks unlikely though if what you suggest is the case. I don't think she has a boyfriend there, there is nothing on her social media, vk and it looks like she has started that some time ago. She does not know I know of her vk page though I think in this day and age its fair to assume that she would have thought that I might find it and if had a bf could sanitize it for purpose. She has stated to me she does not have a bf in the past and her reply seemed genuine as far as I could tell anyway.

Women there know WM check their online profiles, so that means nothing. 

If this girl is intent on scamming you, living in Kherson is not going to make a difference.  These types of scams have been going on for over half a century in Ukraine.  In Soviet times, certain cities were closed, meaning one required a residence permit (propiska) to live there.  Moscow, Leningrad, Kyiv, were all closed cities.  I knew a lot of men who were targeted by women from smaller cities for marriage.  My husband told one acquaintance outright that his then girlfriend was targeting him for a propiska (she was from Kherson, coincidentally).  The friend didn't listen.  He didn't give her a propiska until after their child was born.  The day after receiving her propiska, his loving wife threw him out of his apartment.  He ended up being saved only because he had a relative with good connections who quietly took the wife aside and told her to get out of the district they lived in, for if he saw her there, he'd have her propiska pulled and she'd be on the next train to Kherson. It's not the only story I know, I know dozens like this.  The point?  If a native couldn't see this, what makes you think you will?

We don't know the girl, so we can't tell you what to do.  That's for you to decide.  But Bill is right, as are others who have posted.  If you can't trust this girl with your life, then she is not the one for you.  Deep down, if you listen to your instincts, they will give you the answer.

Quote
Anyway, so my thought on this at the moment are either live in Kherson in the future for a short while almost undercover as a English Language Teacher and rent out a separate apartment which she justs visits for 'tuition' ;D or ask her to live with me in a nearby city live Nikolaev or Odessa but this would of course entail her giving up her job so I'm not sure she would go for that. I 'm thinking though at any rate it may be worth messaging her and finding out if rumour, gossip, reputation is the reason behind it all, what do you think as the way forward on this?

See above.  You will not be able to support yourself comfortably teaching English in Kherson.  It's a poor region of a poor country.  You'd have better luck in one of the cities I listed.  And, you won't be able to live "undercover" in Kherson.  It's population is under 400,000.  Someone your girl knows will see her with you, and soon, everyone will know.  That's the way it is in Ukraine.  She may or may not tell  you this, difficult to say, but it's something to which, for the most part, Westerners are oblivious.  Nevertheless, if this is what you want to do, I suggest you save enough money to be able to support yourself comfortably in Ukraine for three to six months, and live there for that period.  You can contact Stirlitz or Mila to help you find a furnished apartment to rent.  Tell her you have no intention of moving back to the West, and you'll refurnish the apartment when you get more money, and see if she is interested in you when you have the same resources and economic opportunities as a typical UM.  My hunch is the answer will be "no".

If you don't have trust, then you can't have a real relationship. 

I know Ecocks (I probably got his name wrong) made a few shekels teaching business English to businessmen in Ukraine. If I were going to try teaching English (which I'm not going to do). I would try something like that with a couple of English teachers for backup.

But Ed was a retired college professor.  He'd spent his life teaching, so he understood how to teach.  That is the difference. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 14, 2017, 01:19:55 PM
There are lots of ways, I assume, to protect your home from matrimonial claims.  I know there are ways to do this in Canada.  Put it in joint tenancy with your parents with some form of consideration.  Put it in a trust. 

Go see a lawyer to determine what structures can be put in place to protect your assets before you marry.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 14, 2017, 01:38:46 PM
But Ed was a retired college professor.  He'd spent his life teaching, so he understood how to teach.  That is the difference.


I was speaking for myself, how I would do it if it were me, not how somebody
else should do it.

I've taught more sales people how to be sales people than I could list.
I've ridden with them, went on calls with them, I've recruited them right
out of college and taught them everything they knew. I've made presentations
on salesmanship, prospecting and many other aspects of selling to beginners
and journeymen alike.

I've helped others map out their careers, how to work their territory, find leads
and pursue leads and a thousand other aspects of selling. I've developed tests
to measure a salesperson's strengths and weaknesses and helped them develop
plans to improve both. I could certainly do it, but I don't have the desire.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 14, 2017, 06:50:30 PM
See above.  You will not be able to support yourself comfortably teaching English in Kherson.  It's a poor region of a poor country.  You'd have better luck in one of the cities I listed.  And, you won't be able to live "undercover" in Kherson.  It's population is under 400,000.  Someone your girl knows will see her with you, and soon, everyone will know.  That's the way it is in Ukraine.  She may or may not tell  you this, difficult to say, but it's something to which, for the most part, Westerners are oblivious.  Nevertheless, if this is what you want to do, I suggest you save enough money to be able to support yourself comfortably in Ukraine for three to six months, and live there for that period.  You can contact Stirlitz or Mila to help you find a furnished apartment to rent.  Tell her you have no intention of moving back to the West, and you'll refurnish the apartment when you get more money, and see if she is interested in you when you have the same resources and economic opportunities as a typical UM.  My hunch is the answer will be "no".

If you don't have trust, then you can't have a real relationship.

In the immediate town where I live the population is around 150,000 yet I wouldn't say everyone knows everyone and I'm sure I can go out shopping many a time without bumping into anyone I know or who knows me. Some people will come from a nearby town but its population is just 185,000 approx. I'm not sure with population of around/under 400,000 in Kherson how everyone knows everyone - surely many can walk around with no-one knowing who they are or sticking out much. When I was in Nikolaev no one seemed to take any particular interest in me being not of the region that I could notice at least anyway. When I say undercover my thought is to set myself up as an English Teacher but this may be more of a front than anything just so girl can say she is visiting me for English lessons while in reality behind closed doors other lessons are in progress :D To everyone around it will make perfect sense that she is visiting a native English guy to learn English. Though I still can't believe that everyone is such a busybody in Kherson like the busybodies you get in a small English village that I would have to go to these lengths to do this. At any rate I would use the money from renting out my place back home to lodgers to pay my bills, if any income came in from English Teaching it would be additional to what I need, I would ensure I have savings too to fall back on.

Long term, my thought has always been is that if I can provide the accommodation, whether I am renting or buy a place whether in Ukraine or UK girl would be way better of than she presently is- she could save or spend any money she brought in as she would have no accommodation costs to worry about or fear of not meeting accommodation payments. Talking to girl of recent though and she appears adamant she will only live in UK that I will not be visiting her in Kherson, lol. This is funny since she has no way of paying for travel/meeting documentation requirements to UK or any control of me being able to just buy a ticket to Kherson and hop on a plane in the blink of an eye. She has an managerial edge to her and wants to determine the situation despite having no power over it, lol. For me though, her trying to dictate terms without any acceptance of what I want is just not happening and makes me wary.

Your last sentence intrigues me Boethius as if a girl or any girl is going with me because of lifestyle I can offer her in UK how can I tell she will continue to do decent by me once in UK? On what basis is she with me other than immigration? Once that is fulfilled what reason has she to continue to be with me? My thought as above is that if I could provide an apartment without her having to pay accommodation costs and furnish it nicely then surely this is a big improvement over her present lot. Yet it appears that his is not a solution that is satisfactory for her and she wants way more in moving to the UK. Yet from where she's at in having to earn very low pay and pay for an apartment it surely is a situation she would want to move from in a matter of haste I would have thought to anything better?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 14, 2017, 07:18:01 PM
There are lots of ways, I assume, to protect your home from matrimonial claims.  I know there are ways to do this in Canada.  Put it in joint tenancy with your parents with some form of consideration.  Put it in a trust. 

Go see a lawyer to determine what structures can be put in place to protect your assets before you marry.

Trusts in UK don't offer full proof protection in UK divorce courts - some may offer a measure of protection but you have to disclose existence as a beneficiary of a trust to the divorce courts and if there is not much in the way of assets at hand outside the trust then the courts are likely to move to raiding your trust particularly if it looks like you are the sole beneficiary of the trust, that it has been specifically set up to protect your assets in marriage. So in UK it can't be counted on to help avoid a big payout. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 14, 2017, 07:46:53 PM
In the immediate town where I live the population is around 150,000

This is Ukraine not Blighty. Everyone in Ukraine goes out walking
just to walk around and socialize. They walk to do everything.
They go food shopping several times per week.

Your experience in the UK is irrelevant to Ukraine. There isn't
a babushka network in the UK either, but in Ukraine there is.

Boe is 100% correct and you are 100% wrong.



Your last sentence intrigues me Boethius as if a girl or any girl is going with me because of lifestyle I can offer her in UK how can I tell she will continue to do decent by me once in UK?

You have to win her heart. You must have complete trust in her
and she in you. Otherwise, dump her and move on.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 14, 2017, 09:30:15 PM
This idea of teaching English comes up frequently on this forum.

But there are only 1 out of 100 of us who could actually teach English.

Many assume that if you grew up with a language, you can teach it.
Totally false.

While we may speak and write a language fairly correctly . . . we can in no way explain to a questioner why we are using certain words in certain places as opposed to other words or forms of a word.

The most we can hope for is that we can talk with those who are learning and read to them . . . just so they can become more accustomed to hearing our language and pick up pronunciation knowledge.

But actually teaching English . . . no way.

Totally, agree !

I'm constantly asked by English Schools in Sochi to come and be a guest speaker - which I'm happy to do - but, despite learning Latin at school and that really helped with languages - as did learning some Greek -in Cyprus - teaching is NOT for me...

I  DO get asked why we say certain phrases or why we break grammar rules and I'm simply don't know / remember English grammar well enough to explain.

'Bounder' - a Canadian - has come to Moscow - been on courses to teach English - and seems to be making a go of life there. The first few months were not easy for him.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 14, 2017, 11:09:31 PM
This is Ukraine not Blighty. Everyone in Ukraine goes out walking
just to walk around and socialize. They walk to do everything.
They go food shopping several times per week.

Your experience in the UK is irrelevant to Ukraine. There isn't
a babushka network in the UK either, but in Ukraine there is.

Boe is 100% correct and you are 100% wrong.



You have to win her heart. You must have complete trust in her
and she in you. Otherwise, dump her and move on.

Oh I see, well it can still exist in UK but tends to be villages not really towns or cities. I see what you mean though, people do walk/use public transport a lot in Ukraine so your no doubt right in it having a lot more scope.

Would my front as an English Language Teacher for cover not be convincing to avoid wagging tongues? Often these front situations can be used to effectively deter speculation and it the only way I can think of to deal with this. If for example I was to go to a Ukrainian town/city to teach English anyway before I've met any girl that is what the locals would then take me for, would it not. I could then date one of my students say on the quiet and locals would be oblivious to it I assume.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 15, 2017, 12:23:34 AM
I think you're right Moby, not for me to get married at least not for the time being. I have a few issues with girl at present mainly:

1). She seems to be a Shopaholic.

2). Disagreement between us on where to be together and neither of us has so far budged, she wants UK I am wary and suggest elsewhere.


Even if you aren't looking for marriage but want a friends with benefits relationship, I don't see your relationship lasting too much longer. You want her to put out but you don't want to put out. She's probably exploring options by now and would dump you if the right guy came along. He doesn't have to be a good guy, he needs to just be the right guy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 15, 2017, 02:13:46 AM
'Bounder' - a Canadian - has come to Moscow - been on courses to teach English - and seems to be making a go of life there. The first few months were not easy for him.

I think too that Bounder made the best move, living native seems the best way to go. If I need to make another attempt at this I will prepare well and do that. All this messaging back and forth just seems a waste of time, too much garbage to have to sift through. The only thing I would say of Bounder is that he would have been better securing himself a source of income before he went out there. I know he said he had some savings but it would have made life much easier for him. That and though Moscow is a fair and fine city it is an expensive one so perhaps a cheaper alternative. Also, I am not sure if Bounder is still among us, he has not posted on this forum for several months. The last I heard he met someone that was looking promising but he seemed a bit under pressure economically.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 15, 2017, 09:39:01 AM
In the immediate town where I live the population is around 150,000 yet I wouldn't say everyone knows everyone and I'm sure I can go out shopping many a time without bumping into anyone I know or who knows me. Some people will come from a nearby town but its population is just 185,000 approx. I'm not sure with population of around/under 400,000 in Kherson how everyone knows everyone - surely many can walk around with no-one knowing who they are or sticking out much.

Kherson is not an English village.  It is in Ukraine, and its inhabitants have a Slavic mentality.

How many English families in your village live on top of one another, with four generations (often) sharing a two room apartment?

Why are you asking for this information if you doubt it?

Quote
When I was in Nikolaev no one seemed to take any particular interest in me being not of the region that I could notice at least anyway. When I say undercover my thought is to set myself up as an English Teacher but this may be more of a front than anything just so girl can say she is visiting me for English lessons while in reality behind closed doors other lessons are in progress :D To everyone around it will make perfect sense that she is visiting a native English guy to learn English.

People there aren't stupid.  They are going to figure it out, and quickly, at that.

Quote
Though I still can't believe that everyone is such a busybody in Kherson

It's not being a busybody in their culture.  In fact, in Soviet times, it was encouraged, even rewarded.

Quote
Long term, my thought has always been is that if I can provide the accommodation, whether I am renting or buy a place whether in Ukraine or UK girl would be way better of than she presently is- she could save or spend any money she brought in as she would have no accommodation costs to worry about or fear of not meeting accommodation payments. Talking to girl of recent though and she appears adamant she will only live in UK that I will not be visiting her in Kherson, lol. This is funny since she has no way of paying for travel/meeting documentation requirements to UK or any control of me being able to just buy a ticket to Kherson and hop on a plane in the blink of an eye. She has an managerial edge to her and wants to determine the situation despite having no power over it, lol. For me though, her trying to dictate terms without any acceptance of what I want is just not happening and makes me wary.

You are saving her nothing by moving to Kherson.  Housing is not the expense it is in the West. Yes, she can't stop you from moving, but she can refuse to see you.

Quote
Your last sentence intrigues me Boethius as if a girl or any girl is going with me because of lifestyle I can offer her in UK how can I tell she will continue to do decent by me once in UK? On what basis is she with me other than immigration? Once that is fulfilled what reason has she to continue to be with me? My thought as above is that if I could provide an apartment without her having to pay accommodation costs and furnish it nicely then surely this is a big improvement over her present lot. Yet it appears that his is not a solution that is satisfactory for her and she wants way more in moving to the UK. Yet from where she's at in having to earn very low pay and pay for an apartment it surely is a situation she would want to move from in a matter of haste I would have thought to anything better?

You can't know.  But a girl that much younger than you has chosen you because you provide her the opportunity of a lifestyle she can't have with a UM.  She is using what she has (lbeauty) to better her station in life, just as you are using what you have (providing economic stability) to obtain a girl you could not in the West.

Life comes with no guarantees.  If you can't live with this, then FSUW or, for that matter, relationships in general, are not for you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 15, 2017, 10:13:54 AM
Trusts in UK don't offer full proof protection in UK divorce courts - some may offer a measure of protection but you have to disclose existence as a beneficiary of a trust to the divorce courts and if there is not much in the way of assets at hand outside the trust then the courts are likely to move to raiding your trust particularly if it looks like you are the sole beneficiary of the trust, that it has been specifically set up to protect your assets in marriage. So in UK it can't be counted on to help avoid a big payout.

I used it as an example.  As you are not yet married, I suspect there are things you can do to protect your home.  Don't be a cheapskate - go see the best matrimonial lawyer in your area and ask how you can protect yourself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 15, 2017, 11:09:37 AM
I used it as an example.  As you are not yet married, I suspect there are things you can do to protect your home.  Don't be a cheapskate - go see the best matrimonial lawyer in your area and ask how you can protect yourself.


He is talking about divorce and he is not married yet?  :-\


Self-fullfilling profecy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 15, 2017, 11:18:18 AM
I don't think there is anything wrong with protecting your pre exsiting assets as much as possible. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 15, 2017, 12:31:07 PM
Kherson is not an English village.  It is in Ukraine, and its inhabitants have a Slavic mentality.

How many English families in your village live on top of one another, with four generations (often) sharing a two room apartment?

Why are you asking for this information if you doubt it?

People there aren't stupid.  They are going to figure it out, and quickly, at that.

It's not being a busybody in their culture.  In fact, in Soviet times, it was encouraged, even rewarded.

You are saving her nothing by moving to Kherson.  Housing is not the expense it is in the West. Yes, she can't stop you from moving, but she can refuse to see you.

You can't know.  But a girl that much younger than you has chosen you because you provide her the opportunity of a lifestyle she can't have with a UM.  She is using what she has (lbeauty) to better her station in life, just as you are using what you have (providing economic stability) to obtain a girl you could not in the West.

Life comes with no guarantees.  If you can't live with this, then FSUW or, for that matter, relationships in general, are not for you.

OMG Boethius, sounds like the worst case of busybodyness I have heard off, lol. Well I've studied Soviet history so know that there was apparently a lot of informanting etc as you suggest back then but I had no idea it went into personal relationships and even to this day. Truely shocking  :o

Well I don't know what to do. She just takes the same line that she expects visit next to UK and me to buy her stuff. She won't budge, is that the Slavic mentality? Will pretty much all girls out there be that stubborn and just want me to do the visit/move to UK Deal straight off? Just seems so bizarre to me that I have supposedly got the better hand but apparently can't be in control  :-\
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 15, 2017, 12:34:49 PM
Trench, listen to those that have FSU spouses. They have the experience. Your thought process is fu***d up. I just returned from a week long trip to Nikolaev visiting the girl I am pursuing. We went to Kherson to visit for a day. Neither Nikolaev nor Kherson is a place I would want to live in for more than a few weeks. Is your girl truly worth making the sacrifice of living there for? You can’t also think about all the negative things such as you being a mule, etc. If she is causing you to have all these thoughts (in addition to you being who you are), move on to someone else. If you insist on living there and end up in a poor situation, you are going to end up resenting her. That is no way to live.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 15, 2017, 01:52:09 PM
Trench, listen to those that have FSU spouses. They have the experience. Your thought process is fu***d up. I just returned from a week long trip to Nikolaev visiting the girl I am pursuing. We went to Kherson to visit for a day. Neither Nikolaev nor Kherson is a place I would want to live in for more than a few weeks. Is your girl truly worth making the sacrifice of living there for? You can’t also think about all the negative things such as you being a mule, etc. If she is causing you to have all these thoughts (in addition to you being who you are), move on to someone else. If you insist on living there and end up in a poor situation, you are going to end up resenting her. That is no way to live.

Good to see you back on here Wall, wondered where you had got too :D So what about you? you're girl must be at about the same stage of wanting to visit the US you've known her for about as long as mine, visit wise also. As you know I've been to Nikolaev and know its pretty sedate, kind of Truman Show meets Groundhog Day i.e like the same day replaying over and over again. I know there is not much there and would have to busy myself on something. Nikolaev town centre is pleasant enough even is much isn't happening, the outskirts are urban but you get used to it I find. Kherson I have not been but can imagine it would not hold interest for long so again using oneself is no doubt important. I don't think I would be in a real poor situation if I can secure an independent income. In any case I am not proposing to live their indefinitely just long enough to really get to know the girl. To me is seems silly that there is this real big uproar that I can't do this.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 15, 2017, 03:01:07 PM
Good to see you back on here Wall, wondered where you had got too :D So what about you? you're girl must be at about the same stage of wanting to visit the US you've known her for about as long as mine, visit wise also. As you know I've been to Nikolaev and know its pretty sedate, kind of Truman Show meets Groundhog Day i.e like the same day replaying over and over again. I know there is not much there and would have to busy myself on something. Nikolaev town centre is pleasant enough even is much isn't happening, the outskirts are urban but you get used to it I find. Kherson I have not been but can imagine it would not hold interest for long so again using oneself is no doubt important. I don't think I would be in a real poor situation if I can secure an independent income. In any case I am not proposing to live their indefinitely just long enough to really get to know the girl. To me is seems silly that there is this real big uproar that I can't do this.


It isn't that we don't think you can do it, it is we think you shouldn't do it. Not for this girl. Of course, I find it funny that the most risk adverse, scam fearing guy in history, is involved with an obvious scammer. My guess, he has a local guy who is living in the UK and is looking for a mule to get her there. For god sake, listen to Bill and Boe. We do not want to see your trainwreck actually happen...


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 15, 2017, 03:42:58 PM

It isn't that we don't think you can do it, it is we think you shouldn't do it. Not for this girl. Of course, I find it funny that the most risk adverse, scam fearing guy in history, is involved with an obvious scammer. My guess, he has a local guy who is living in the UK and is looking for a mule to get her there. For god sake, listen to Bill and Boe. We do not want to see your trainwreck actually happen...

HDL

Why do you think that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 15, 2017, 04:02:07 PM
Why do you think that?


Why do I think that?


1) She found you, therefore its possible that she wanted a UK citizen. Specifically.
2) She doesn't want you in her city
3) She has milked two vacations out of you and is now upping her game to clothing.
    3a) If you have ever been in a Soviet style apartment, you would know the lack of closet space, so how many             clothes does she need or have room for?
4) I (any several others here) have been where you are. We recognize the pattern
5) You are making excuses to keep a bad situation going, as you still think you want to "co-habituate" with her.


If you are cool having an "arrangement" with this girl, OK. But she is pushing to be imported to specifically the UK. If she was in this for YOU, she wouldn't care what country you lived in. Just something for you to think about.


HDL.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 15, 2017, 04:11:37 PM
you're girl must be at about the same stage of wanting to visit the US you've known her for about as long as mine, visit wise also.

She has not yet asked to visit US. Even if she wants to, she can’t get a tourist visa. I am nowhere near asking her to marry me. We are just enjoying ourselves and getting to know each other. I will go back in September. The uproar is more about your girl and less about you living there. She wants to live in UK which is fine but should that be a deal breaker? And she is a shopaholic according to you. She is bad news.

HDL is right. If she truly is in this for you, she won't care where she lives.
Stop thinking with the little head. ;D You are trying to justify bad choices.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 15, 2017, 04:53:05 PM

Why do I think that?


1) She found you, therefore its possible that she wanted a UK citizen. Specifically.
2) She doesn't want you in her city
3) She has milked two vacations out of you and is now upping her game to clothing.
    3a) If you have ever been in a Soviet style apartment, you would know the lack of closet space, so how many             clothes does she need or have room for?
4) I (any several others here) have been where you are. We recognize the pattern
5) You are making excuses to keep a bad situation going, as you still think you want to "co-habituate" with her.


If you are cool having an "arrangement" with this girl, OK. But she is pushing to be imported to specifically the UK. If she was in this for YOU, she wouldn't care what country you lived in. Just something for you to think about.


HDL.

HDL, WHERE is the scam from this 'scammer'???

Cause she wants to live in UK?
Cause she wants cloths? She gave him something!!! )))
I didn't know trench's girl arranged vacations(her idea)?
Maybe trench is butt ugly and girl is embarrassed to be amongst friends?

Maybe there is a new definition of 'scammer'?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 12:36:56 AM

Why do I think that?


1) She found you, therefore its possible that she wanted a UK citizen. Specifically.
2) She doesn't want you in her city
3) She has milked two vacations out of you and is now upping her game to clothing.
    3a) If you have ever been in a Soviet style apartment, you would know the lack of closet space, so how many             clothes does she need or have room for?
4) I (any several others here) have been where you are. We recognize the pattern
5) You are making excuses to keep a bad situation going, as you still think you want to "co-habituate" with her.


If you are cool having an "arrangement" with this girl, OK. But she is pushing to be imported to specifically the UK. If she was in this for YOU, she wouldn't care what country you lived in. Just something for you to think about.


HDL.

Well apparently a woman she worked with met a UK guy and now lives in the UK so she thought she would look abroad also. Prior to me about a year or two ago she was with a guy from another European country or so she says but it did not work out - neither of us want to go into previous relationships that much so I think its a general consensus that we are both more comfortable leaving it at that. I stated to her recently that she must be fine for clothes now as she can't have much space in her small apartment room so no need for me to buy any more before marriage/living together. She had a problem on the first vacation it got worse on the second with regard to wanting me to buy her clothing, I should have put my foot down more as on the first. They had a sale on the second vacation so it seemed expedient to let her buy a few but she still got more than I think she should have, that and we ate out a lot so it all added to the bill that got a bit expensive at the end of the day. Nothing I can't recover from with a break from spending and time at work but I don't want a recurrence of the same, I don't mind buying the odd dress for her or whatever but I just don't want to be a walking credit card. I not sure if she just feels its her right as a hot girl, just obsessed with clothing but it is creating an unfortunate wedge in our relationship. Her stating that it is UK visit next is not sitting well with me - I don't like that she is wanting to call the shots and I merely have no choice other than to follow on. So I appreciate number 4 on your list I can well understand that the same situation re-occur hence why the 'Pitfall List' I offered forward.

As far as vacation was concerned she said she wanted a beach holiday, she did not want Ukraine again, neither did I so as Ukraine was just getting Visa-free to EU I suggested a country in the Med. It seemed we were in not too bad a place by the end of the first holiday so that is why I was happy to do holiday. I now thing that holidays are just a bad idea, don't get me wrong I enjoyed it (apart from the expense) but it added virtually zero to advancing our relationship. We should have got busy on messaging or with her in her city trying to sort out problems in relationship. By the way HDL, Boethius seems to think the opposite of you that there are good reasons for her not wanting me in Kherson as the town talks apparently and I should bring girl for visit to the UK. I can't help but think though that her directness in coming to the UK is for some reason other than me.

Like you say a girl who wants to be with me I thought as well would want to be with me where ever. I have already promised another EU country in the Med as convenient for us both but she was at best luke warm to the idea. She does not want me in Kherson, yet she seems to have UK in her crosshairs as the place to be. If she had not carelessly racked up my expenses on clothing and food (one dish she ordered she barely touched and this was after I stated whether we needed to eat again as we had only just done a couple of hours or so before hand) then I would have less qualms. That said I do care for the girl and can appreciate not all Ukrainian girls will act the same, the age difference, that she is hot, etc and seems to have some attachment to me in seemingly wanting to be with me. So I am on the fence and think the only way to get off it is for me to go to Kherson, delve further.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 01:02:52 AM
She has not yet asked to visit US. Even if she wants to, she can’t get a tourist visa. I am nowhere near asking her to marry me. We are just enjoying ourselves and getting to know each other. I will go back in September. The uproar is more about your girl and less about you living there. She wants to live in UK which is fine but should that be a deal breaker? And she is a shopaholic according to you. She is bad news.

HDL is right. If she truly is in this for you, she won't care where she lives.
Stop thinking with the little head. ;D You are trying to justify bad choices
.

My thoughts exactly and I don't think I'm likely the answers I need until I visit Kherson and in that respects I would rather plan for a extended stay if necessary so I can have the opportunity of other woman if she does turn out to be a bad one. For UK I'm think its much like the US difficult for Ukrainian women to visit. She has forwarded to me a list of documentation I need to provide and she need to provide to be able to do this (from the British Embassy). I have pointed out the pain in the arse of doing this, that even after we attempt it it could well get knocked back she says I am just using this that she thinks I don't really want her to visit as I have a family. I told her this is not true. She does not have a bank account for example - I could set one up for her possibly but will no doubt have to pay in money (convenient for her), the amount of money she will have to show to live on again will entail sending her more money. The way I see it I have already input enough money into this relationship and she has taken advantage, I want to see that all is up front first and get to really know her. Her demands to come to UK are just not on in my book. Your girl for example is not demanding this and I assume she is not getting you buying her lots of clothes?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 01:10:04 AM
Kherson is not an English village.  It is in Ukraine, and its inhabitants have a Slavic mentality.

How many English families in your village live on top of one another, with four generations (often) sharing a two room apartment?

Why are you asking for this information if you doubt it?

People there aren't stupid.  They are going to figure it out, and quickly, at that.

It's not being a busybody in their culture.  In fact, in Soviet times, it was encouraged, even rewarded.

You are saving her nothing by moving to Kherson.  Housing is not the expense it is in the West. Yes, she can't stop you from moving, but she can refuse to see you.

You can't know.  But a girl that much younger than you has chosen you because you provide her the opportunity of a lifestyle she can't have with a UM.  She is using what she has (lbeauty) to better her station in life, just as you are using what you have (providing economic stability) to obtain a girl you could not in the West.

Life comes with no guarantees.  If you can't live with this, then FSUW or, for that matter, relationships in general, are not for you.

I am still not convinced by this, sure I can see that people live in far greater density than the UK but is a girl meeting/having a relationship really going to be that big a deal. I'm sure many girls do it there. After all lets not forget Kherson is one of the Cities on the AFA (A Foreign Affair) tour and has been for many years - I'm sure the girls that attend those evenings are much higher on the radar than some girl with a guy through other more discreet channels. In any case if she refuses to see me I am sure there are plenty of other girls there willing to, perhaps I will remind her of that ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 16, 2017, 01:59:32 AM
I am still not convinced by this

You should be .. typical Trench stubbornness 

In any case if she refuses to see me I am sure there are plenty of other girls there willing to, perhaps I will remind her of that ;D

Frankly speaking, I don't think you will ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on July 16, 2017, 02:32:56 AM
neither of us want to go into previous relationships that much so I think its a general consensus that we are both more comfortable leaving it at that.

So you do not wish to face your mistakes in prior relationships?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 04:26:33 AM
She has not yet asked to visit US. Even if she wants to, she can’t get a tourist visa. I am nowhere near asking her to marry me. We are just enjoying ourselves and getting to know each other. I will go back in September. The uproar is more about your girl and less about you living there. She wants to live in UK which is fine but should that be a deal breaker? And she is a shopaholic according to you. She is bad news.

HDL is right. If she truly is in this for you, she won't care where she lives.
Stop thinking with the little head. ;D You are trying to justify bad choices.

A third time and she has no issue with you being there, lol What will the locals be saying!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 07:12:01 AM
A third time and she has no issue with you being there, lol What will the locals be saying!


As I posted above, a woman over 30, particularly one with a child or who is divorced, is not going to elicit the same gossip.  In Ukrainian society, she is done.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 07:20:15 AM
I am still not convinced by this, sure I can see that people live in far greater density than the UK but is a girl meeting/having a relationship really going to be that big a deal. I'm sure many girls do it there. After all lets not forget Kherson is one of the Cities on the AFA (A Foreign Affair) tour and has been for many years - I'm sure the girls that attend those evenings are much higher on the radar than some girl with a guy through other more discreet channels. In any case if she refuses to see me I am sure there are plenty of other girls there willing to, perhaps I will remind her of that ;D


I don't really care if you're convinced.  This is the reality.  When you have lived in Ukraine and understand the culture intimately, come back and tell me why I'm wrong. 


AFA is a site to scam foreigners, which is not considered a sin/crime/bad thing among Ukrainians.  In fact, it's viewed as clever.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 16, 2017, 07:25:39 AM
HDL, WHERE is the scam from this 'scammer'???

Cause she wants to live in UK?
Cause she wants cloths? She gave him something!!! )))
I didn't know trench's girl arranged vacations(her idea)?
Maybe trench is butt ugly and girl is embarrassed to be amongst friends?

Maybe there is a new definition of 'scammer'?


I am using Trench's definition of "scam". He is willingly parting with money for vacations and clothing. That isn't a scam necessarily. But the fact she doesn't want him in her city and specifically wants to live in the UK are red flags. It doesn't become a true scam until she gets the British equivalent of a green card and she dumps him.


I find it hilarious, though that Trench seems to have issues with paying for meals while on vacation. Unless they had an apartment with kitchen facilities, how else were they going to eat?


So, is he truly being scammed? Don't know and it depends upon ones definition of a scam. Based on my reading of Trench's definition, he is getting scammed. My definition is a little different, but I would have pulled the pin on this girl when she demanded to meet in Kiev instead of Kherson. The fact that there is not much to do in Kherson is irrelevant. My girl lives in a small city in Belarus and there is little to do, but I have been there every trip (living in her flat, with a day in Minsk at both ends of a trip). My girl has been here 3 times and has been to my sleepy little town.


Trench's girl doesn't want him there for a reason. OK, so maybe the first trip they meet in Nikolaev or Odessa with a day trip to Kherson if things look good after a day or two. But a trip to the med for the second trip was probably her idea.


But, LAMan, you have to admit that the is relationship is fishy. Scam or not. If you disagree that is cool also. :)


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 07:27:41 AM
I don't think not wanting to meet in Kherson is a big deal.


I think the demand to be taken care of ("real man") is a red flag, and a sign this woman will not be a good wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 16, 2017, 07:36:52 AM
I don't think not wanting to meet in Kherson is a big deal.


I think the demand to be taken care of ("real man") is a red flag, and a sign this woman will not be a good wife.


But Boe, if the girl was serious, wouldn't she want her family to meet the guy? Granted, I have a small sample size, but I have met the close families of every girl I have flown to meet and I stay in the flat of my current girl. I agree with you on the gossip. The Babushka's gave my girl crap after my first visit. "Why do you want Americanski? Get good Belarusian man!". My girl told them to mind their own business. Of course my gal is much older than Trench's, has a child in university and doesn't give a sh*t about the town gossip.


Agree with you about the "real man" comments. In particular how it is used in manipulative manner.


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 07:39:45 AM
How serious is it if they've spent a total of two weeks together?  Way too early, from her point of view.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 07:45:32 AM
Yet she is set on UK. I agree with HDL in that two Red Flags have now appeared and I want to find out more about girl before spending any more time & money on her.

I could fly to Kherson later on and if she doesn't check out to my liking call up other girls who may.

HDL, yes of course I expect her to eat but it was often the most expensive thing on the menu, i.e Steak Diana and sometimes more than we needed too. Also she had some money but for every single item it was me dipping my hand into my wad again, it kind of got irritating after a while.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 07:47:40 AM
Culturally, a woman there would never pay on a date.  Especially if she is sleeping with the man.  So her having money is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 07:50:02 AM
Still, you are wasting your time.  She is not wife material.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 16, 2017, 08:05:12 AM
Yet she is set on UK. I agree with HDL in that two Red Flags have now appeared and I want to find out more about girl before spending any more time & money on her.

I could fly to Kherson later on and if she doesn't check out to my liking call up other girls who may.

HDL, yes of course I expect her to eat but it was often the most expensive thing on the menu, i.e Steak Diana and sometimes more than we needed too. Also she had some money but for every single item it was me dipping my hand into my wad again, it kind of got irritating after a while.


Trench, I am older than you. Other than birthdays, I have always paid for the meal when dining out with my girl friend or wife. It was how I was taught by my parents (along with opening car doors, etc). Part of being a gentleman. In the FSU it is mandatory as Boe and others have told you. If a dish on the menu is too expensive, you shouldn't have walked in the door. This behavior will kill you in her eyes. If you mentioned menu pricing to her, I wouldn't be surprised if the "clothing drive" demands are not punishment for being a "greedy" man. No wonder you can't find a woman in the UK. At least to us, you come across as a cheap bastard.


You need to fold your hand Trench. Fix your issues.


HDL



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on July 16, 2017, 08:11:29 AM
How serious is it if they've spent a total of two weeks together?  Way too early, from her point of view.


You are probably right so I won't argue this point with you as I have never dated a Ukrainian girl in her 20's. My dates have always been older than 30. Also, I put in hours and hours of Skype time before my first trip, so we knew if things would be good or not, at least initially. So there was a comfort level already established. In fact I met many family members over Skype before my trip. Another reason Trench's hesitation to use Skype is bad.


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 16, 2017, 08:51:51 AM

I am using Trench's definition of "scam". He is willingly parting with money for vacations and clothing. That isn't a scam necessarily. But the fact she doesn't want him in her city and specifically wants to live in the UK are red flags. It doesn't become a true scam until she gets the British equivalent of a green card and she dumps him.


I find it hilarious, though that Trench seems to have issues with paying for meals while on vacation. Unless they had an apartment with kitchen facilities, how else were they going to eat?


So, is he truly being scammed? Don't know and it depends upon ones definition of a scam. Based on my reading of Trench's definition, he is getting scammed. My definition is a little different, but I would have pulled the pin on this girl when she demanded to meet in Kiev instead of Kherson. The fact that there is not much to do in Kherson is irrelevant. My girl lives in a small city in Belarus and there is little to do, but I have been there every trip (living in her flat, with a day in Minsk at both ends of a trip). My girl has been here 3 times and has been to my sleepy little town.


Trench's girl doesn't want him there for a reason. OK, so maybe the first trip they meet in Nikolaev or Odessa with a day trip to Kherson if things look good after a day or two. But a trip to the med for the second trip was probably her idea.


But, LAMan, you have to admit that the is relationship is fishy. Scam or not. If you disagree that is cool also. :)


HDL

I find it hilarious the way 'scam' is used. It is used when one feels he/she are not getting what they pay for!!!

Seems to me both Trench and this(not his) girl have merely been fulfilling some needs. Initially, Trench put out some cache because he was getting sex, at that point he was not complaining about being scammed or used and the girl was getting something she wanted...new clothes. Now Trench is having issues because the sex is not worth buying clothes, it was only a matter of time until this came up.

Problem here has nothing to do with girl( she does sound selfish), it is Trench's attitude. He will have issues with any girl, whether it be Ukraine, UK, Russia, Earth, Mars.........   I do believe there is someone for everyone, so eventually Trench will find someone that will put up with him, whether it be for a few weeks, few months or even a few years before he is alone again.
There is a reason Trench's visit are mostly 3rd cities, he's doing something to precipitate this happening and I don't know why this is happening( happened only once to me).

It was this board who encouraged Trench to start this journey, convincing him to try with little concern whether it was feasible or not. I saw from the beginning why he had issues with women at home based on his posting here. I would never advise anyone to start this journey, too many pitfalls or minefields, my advise is to look at home..... a lot safer.

I appreciate Trench being so open with his personal life here quite entertaining, a lot better reading than political threads, hope he stops and smells the roses and change something in his life.....all to make him a better person. I wish him luck.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 09:05:25 AM
Still, you are wasting your time.  She is not wife material.

Regretfully Boe I think you're right. I tried to allow for her characteristics that weren't wife material characteristics as I know most of us on the online dating are there because we don't line up quite enough with the ideal. Generally yes I would accept paying for meal & drink but shopping I think she should not have done, it was not right of her. I thought if I be nice to her she would appreciate it but I think it has damaged our relationship more than anything. The fact that she is standing her ground and not budging is completely unhelpful. I think she just wants to use a WM for clothing and holidays and keep it quite from her home life so it is just where she can quietly get clothes from. Whether she truly wants to  immigrate at all I wonder also or just want another free trip abroad and again shopping trip at my expense.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 16, 2017, 09:22:33 AM
How things can change in a little over a month or maybe how things were never really clear?


Cheers Bill, your right, I'm happy in the place where I am at the moment, in fact couldn't be happier :) So keeping the story out of sniper range on here suits me and glad you agree its best too, many thanks. Plus no longer got time to argue as busy in relationship with girl ;D

Admittedly some of conclusions I reached were off the mark and experience can often gives better insight than surmising. That said, I think the surmising and consequent correction & input from those more experienced than myself on here helped me get a better idea of how things work in FSU dating. If I did not have this I think I would have been all at sea in a sense of confusion for some time.

I now feel pretty capable of leading the relationship forward. However, I think its fair to say there are still the odd situations that emerge that take some navigating in areas I am still a little unsure off. So not completely there yet but happy in the relationship that has come about. She's a sweet girl, genuine & authentic and seems to be really into me & vice versa and that takes us a long way I feel without having to work at the relationship just move forward as necessary.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 16, 2017, 09:31:36 AM

Other than birthdays, I have always paid for the meal when dining out with my girl friend or wife.

As an aside - it is traditional that those inviting guests for their Birthday pay for the guests in the FSU
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 16, 2017, 10:51:29 AM
How things can change in a little over a month or maybe how things were never really clear?

Yeah, things were looking good, I will be more careful in future, she seemed really into me but now I think maybe she had other motives and I was just a pawn for her. I mean are there any girls out there in Ukraine, etc who are really looking for a guy and not just uncaringly waste his life chances of finding someone for holidays, shopping, immigration, etc?

I just couldn't decently treat people that way. The decent thing for these girls to do is stand aside and not get in the way of these guys finding someone. It blatantly obvious they guys don't stroll into this with profiles that read, hey I want to take girls on shopping trips, holidays, etc even if she is not serious about a relationship but is willing to make out she is.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 11:51:20 AM
Quote
He will have issues with any girl, whether it be Ukraine, UK, Russia, Earth, Mars.........   I do believe there is someone for everyone, so eventually Trench will find someone that will put

I agree with this. 

Trench, the attitude you display here is too much "me, me, me".  It will not lead to long term success.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 12:16:08 PM
Yeah, things were looking good, I will be more careful in future, she seemed really into me but now I think maybe she had other motives and I was just a pawn for her. I mean are there any girls out there in Ukraine, etc who are really looking for a guy and not just uncaringly waste his life chances of finding someone for holidays, shopping, immigration, etc?

I just couldn't decently treat people that way. The decent thing for these girls to do is stand aside and not get in the way of these guys finding someone. It blatantly obvious they guys don't stroll into this with profiles that read, hey I want to take girls on shopping trips, holidays, etc even if she is not serious about a relationship but is willing to make out she is.


You may not have been a pawn.  She may have been sincere.  It's just that her expectations and yours would not mesh over time.


As for "uncaring", do you realize how many sex tourists go to Ukraine, promising girls a new life?  That's one of the reasons why girls don't want to meet men in their home cities.  It is just as prevalent, perhaps more, than women scamming WM.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 12:40:27 PM

You are probably right so I won't argue this point with you as I have never dated a Ukrainian girl in her 20's. My dates have always been older than 30. Also, I put in hours and hours of Skype time before my first trip, so we knew if things would be good or not, at least initially. So there was a comfort level already established. In fact I met many family members over Skype before my trip. Another reason Trench's hesitation to use Skype is bad.


HDL


If a woman is a scammer, she's going to scam you whether or not she's in her home town.  I think this "red flag" is anything but.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 16, 2017, 01:07:40 PM
Regretfully Boe I think you're right. I tried to allow for her characteristics that weren't wife material characteristics as I know most of us on the online dating are there because we don't line up quite enough with the ideal. Generally yes I would accept paying for meal & drink but shopping I think she should not have done, it was not right of her. I thought if I be nice to her she would appreciate it but I think it has damaged our relationship more than anything. The fact that she is standing her ground and not budging is completely unhelpful. I think she just wants to use a WM for clothing and holidays and keep it quite from her home life so it is just where she can quietly get clothes from. Whether she truly wants to  immigrate at all I wonder also or just want another free trip abroad and again shopping trip at my expense.

Wait a second. You were adamant just a few hours ago that this girl is still right for you.

If you back out, she would now probably call you a sex tourist. You did get your little head wet.  ;D

Next time, slow down. I can't understand why anyone starts thinking marriage after one or two meetings. If the next girl drags you into a shopping mall, walk out and say goodbye. I have yet to buy the girl I am pursuing anything more than flowers and candy. We did go to nice restaurants sometimes (they were my idea because I am a foodie) and I didn't care what the prices were. If she is the right one for me, when she comes here (and that is a long way off from now), I will give her my Nordstrom card and tell her to knock herself out, within reason. Don't try to buy love, Trench. Remember the advice you got from people who have a ton more experience.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 16, 2017, 02:02:03 PM
shopping trip at my expense.

I am not trying to pile on so don't take it that way.

99.99% of my wife's shopping is at my expense. Only I don't
look at it that way. I look at it as providing for my family and
that's my job.

When we first met she had difficulty letting me pay for anything
except for dates. 100% of the girls in the FSU expect you to pay
for that, but she wouldn't accept cab fare or even bus fare home. 

As I started winning her heart she would allow me to buy her
almost anything.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
Wait a second. You were adamant just a few hours ago that this girl is still right for you.

If you back out, she would now probably call you a sex tourist. You did get your little head wet.  ;D

Next time, slow down. I can't understand why anyone starts thinking marriage after one or two meetings. If the next girl drags you into a shopping mall, walk out and say goodbye. I have yet to buy the girl I am pursuing anything more than flowers and candy. We did go to nice restaurants sometimes (they were my idea because I am a foodie) and I didn't care what the prices were. If she is the right one for me, when she comes here (and that is a long way off from now), I will give her my Nordstrom card and tell her to knock herself out, within reason. Don't try to buy love, Trench. Remember the advice you got from people who have a ton more experience.


I get the sense Trench is not certain what he wants.  Given that, either continue visiting her on neutral territory in Ukraine without shopping sprees, or just do the UK visa, and have her visit you.   Give her a set sum of spending money (say, $500 for a month), no more, and eat in.


 You need to sort out in your brain what you really want.  No one else can do that for you.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 16, 2017, 03:38:14 PM
I want to find out more about girl before spending any more time & money on her.


Without spending money to visit her, take her on a date and seeing her face to face and learn how she interacts with you and others in person, how will you find out more about the girl?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 16, 2017, 08:45:36 PM
Without spending money to visit her, take her on a date and seeing her face to face and learn how she interacts with you and others in person, how will you find out more about the girl?

Send a 50 item questionnaire to all her ex boyfriends.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on July 17, 2017, 04:06:09 AM
Quote from: BillyB on Yesterday at 04:38:14 PM
Without spending money to visit her, take her on a date and seeing her face to face and learn how she interacts with you and others in person, how will you find out more about the girl?

Send a 50 item questionnaire to all her ex boyfriends.

 ;) That might work!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2017, 04:54:06 AM
I am not trying to pile on so don't take it that way.

99.99% of my wife's shopping is at my expense. Only I don't
look at it that way. I look at it as providing for my family and
that's my job.

When we first met she had difficulty letting me pay for anything
except for dates. 100% of the girls in the FSU expect you to pay
for that, but she wouldn't accept cab fare or even bus fare home. 

As I started winning her heart she would allow me to buy her
almost anything.

Does your wife work Bill? If so where does her money go?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2017, 05:15:40 AM
Wait a second. You were adamant just a few hours ago that this girl is still right for you.

If you back out, she would now probably call you a sex tourist. You did get your little head wet.  ;D

Next time, slow down. I can't understand why anyone starts thinking marriage after one or two meetings. If the next girl drags you into a shopping mall, walk out and say goodbye. I have yet to buy the girl I am pursuing anything more than flowers and candy. We did go to nice restaurants sometimes (they were my idea because I am a foodie) and I didn't care what the prices were. If she is the right one for me, when she comes here (and that is a long way off from now), I will give her my Nordstrom card and tell her to knock herself out, within reason. Don't try to buy love, Trench. Remember the advice you got from people who have a ton more experience.

I'm not trying to buy love Wall. She seemed to be really short of clothing, shoes, etc so as it was our second visit and the sales were on I thought I would give her a bit of leeway. To be honest at a rough adding up I'm guessing the clothes came to around £400 (possibly more think some more costs appeared on my credit card since I added this up), cosmetics & sprays around £200 and her half of the food bill around £400. So around £1k all together, some may not see this as a lot but on top of flight costs, hotel cost (four star hotel) and hire car cost for the week and of course my own spending it all added up to rather a lot. Plus I had to send her a few hundred pounds to satisfy border control requirements just in case. I can replenish the money in the short term so its not the be all and end all but its expense that with hindsight I should have avoided. I think it was Moby on here that advised expensive holiday as not a good idea and now I think he was right. Like I say I/we enjoyed the holiday and some good memories but I really don't think holidays are now the way to go in the initial stages of a relationship.

Anyway, things are up and down with this girl like a tart's knickers. Just when I thought she might be playing the field it looks like I might have possibly jumped the gun. That and she is now stating that she will get her Ukrainian friend who is married in the UK to help her with the visitor's visa. This kind of shocked me as she seems really determined to come her and see me. She seems adamantly to think I have a wife which I do not and never have done. She stated this again when telling me that she is getting her friend to help her out. She won't accept me visiting Kherson first she is like a broken record on that one, 'I come to you first then you come to me' over and over again ans she does not budge at all from this no matter what tact you take with her - Is this the Slavic mentality you talk of Boethius? lol. I just really don't know what to make of her sometimes.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 17, 2017, 07:51:42 AM

 You need to sort out in your brain what you really want.  No one else can do that for you.


This is a golden nugget.


When guys don't have their standards sorted out "Cute" becomes the default setting.
This is part of how fatal flaws can be glossed over or overlooked completely.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 17, 2017, 09:44:10 AM
Does your wife work Bill? If so where does her money go?

We have a two year old, who is very active, curious and nearly potty trained. She
reads him stories, plays with him and his face is always clean. We have a house,
a garden with fresh flowers and vegetables. 99% of our meals are prepared at
home. I have a hot breakfast every morning, and a delicious nutritious lunch
packed for whenever I leave the house.

My clothes are clean and pressed, the house is always clean, the windows sparkle.
She has hand knitted sweaters for mini me and myself out of Alpaca wool and other
wool types. She sews entire outfits of clothes out of cloth that she buys and she bakes
cakes from flour, sugar, eggs and things nothing out of boxes. Our garbage is picked
up once a week and unless it has pine needles in it the garbage can is never full.
(They don't want us to put pine needles in the green bin, they didn't say why)

I bought her a pressure washer and she washes the house, the car, the patios, the
driveway and our area rugs. She cans food for winter including pickles, tomatoes,
jams and jelly's. She grows herbs and flowers that she dries and uses for her tea
in the winter.

She studies English 3 days per week and she works 1 or 2 days per week for peanuts
making a few hundred per month. She uses this opportunity to practice English with
those who aren't familiar with her accent. I don't have an accounting for what she
does with all that mad money, some of it she spends on buying yarn or material
for sewing and knitting. Some she uses to buy stuff to beautify her smooth skin, her
long tapered nails or her long shiny hair.

If I don't care what she does with the money. Why would you?
My wife saves me at least $1,000 per month of money that I don't spend.

You are going to struggle to find a woman who will accept your obsession and
control over money in the FSU. India and parts of Africa have some attractive
women who may have the type of mentality you seek. 

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 17, 2017, 02:01:00 PM
We have a two year old, who is very active, curious and nearly potty trained. She
reads him stories, plays with him and his face is always clean. We have a house,
a garden with fresh flowers and vegetables. 99% of our meals are prepared at
home. I have a hot breakfast every morning, and a delicious nutritious lunch
packed for whenever I leave the house.

My clothes are clean and pressed, the house is always clean, the windows sparkle.
She has hand knitted sweaters for mini me and myself out of Alpaca wool and other
wool types. She sews entire outfits of clothes out of cloth that she buys and she bakes
cakes from flour, sugar, eggs and things nothing out of boxes. Our garbage is picked
up once a week and unless it has pine needles in it the garbage can is never full.
(They don't want us to put pine needles in the green bin, they didn't say why)

I bought her a pressure washer and she washes the house, the car, the patios, the
driveway and our area rugs. She cans food for winter including pickles, tomatoes,
jams and jelly's. She grows herbs and flowers that she dries and uses for her tea
in the winter.

She studies English 3 days per week and she works 1 or 2 days per week for peanuts
making a few hundred per month. She uses this opportunity to practice English with
those who aren't familiar with her accent. I don't have an accounting for what she
does with all that mad money, some of it she spends on buying yarn or material
for sewing and knitting. Some she uses to buy stuff to beautify her smooth skin, her
long tapered nails or her long shiny hair.

If I don't care what she does with the money. Why would you?
My wife saves me at least $1,000 per month of money that I don't spend.

You are going to struggle to find a woman who will accept your obsession and
control over money in the FSU. India and parts of Africa have some attractive
women who may have the type of mentality you seek.

Sounds good Bill and a nice life to have :)

Well my present girl I don't know what her idea is in terms of when we live together. She has already stated she doesn't want to go 50/50. In UK I think she could get a job either in retail or basic management her language skills I think are good enough now for that.

At the moment she is throwing her toys out of the pram as she states that she first comes to me or we don't meet at all if I chose to come to Kherson. She is is stating that I am not serious about her because of this despite me visiting her in Kiev and paying for holiday in the sun. The visa she requires I think could likely come with many additional expenses as she currently has no bank account, etc. She seems to be upping the pressure. I just don't know as I don't know if I am going to go to all the expense and hassle of getting her said visa for her then to take of with some other guy. The fact that she is upping the pressure and getting more forceful I just don't like, its not a good sign in my mind. Yes she thinks I have a wife already but I have said to her about connecting on Facebook and stating relation as then if I had someone else it would come out. She says this proves nothing and is not interested, I disagree even though I am not a big fan of Facebook. My thoughts are still that is she was into me enough she would visit me wherever so I'm having my doubts. Also she has been logging onto her dating account recently, she says it was to check on me but I really wonder. I asked her to take her profile down of the search but she does not seem to know what I am getting at - she seems to think its a case of deleting account and wants us to do this together to be sure. Myself I wonder if its a delaying tactic that she is ling up blokes to meet in UK when she get the Visa and I will be sidelined. She apparently has a friend in UK so guessing she could alternatively chose to stay with her.

I personally wonder if she just wants a quick in to the UK and I am a convenient mule and so it doesn't matter if I'm not really rich as she can sort that out later, just so long as she gets in. Its why I really want to spend some time out in Ukraine whether with her or looking for a girl as I don;t want the whole visa/immigration thing to get in the way.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 17, 2017, 02:12:09 PM
Wow.  You are a suspicious SOB.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 17, 2017, 02:17:42 PM
Sounds good Bill and a nice life to have :)

Well my present girl I don't know what her idea is in terms of when we live together. She has already stated she doesn't want to go 50/50.

She is a woman, you are a man. She loves being a woman and wants you to
be a man. She will do more of household work and you will do more earning
type work.

What are you talking about 50/50? Are you joking? Do you want a Western
woman or a FSU woman?

Stop! don't continue just stop.

Please make a list of what you are seeking. If you have one or two private
desire(s) delete that from the list and post it here. I've made assumptions
about what you were seeking and I can see now that I am totally incorrect.
I have no f#cking clue to what you want, and I can't and the other forum
member can't help you unless we know what you are seeking.

So, post the list and I will see if there is anything I can do to help, but I
can't continue to flail about with no idea what you are seeking.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on July 17, 2017, 04:10:26 PM


Stop! don't continue just stop.


Wow.  You are a suspicious SOB.

Below is a link to another thread -- I did not post it here in this thread when I first saw it --  but --  I keep seeing the inane ideas of the op here -- it reminds me of all the potential for an abnormal relationship to go very wrong when a social misfit embarks on a cross cultural search.


Mail Order Murder

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22017.msg464768#msg464768

The documentary can be watched here--
The Perfect Bride

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4229048/
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 17, 2017, 05:47:47 PM
fact that she is upping the pressure and getting more forceful I just don't like, its not a good sign in my mind. Yes she thinks I have a wife already

 

She doesn't trust you. You don't trust her. But you both slept together. Physical bonding doesn't build trust?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on July 17, 2017, 06:01:27 PM
This thread is sooo amusing, Trench -  the man who saw scammers in every corner and one of the cheapest SOB I ever seen here - got some well deserved sex, and now have to pay for it and then complains, who could have guessed   :-\

This disaster of a trainwreck most of us saw from the very beginning - you have only been thinking, and is still thinking with your little head - (by any chance you were a virgin before you met her?) but my only suggestion - drop her like a hot smelling turd and get on with your life, she is not in to you .. and change yourself before you go looking in Ukraine or Russia again, you simply can't handle those women, or any women I would say.

I am currently sitting in a warm nice cabin in the Carpathians just outside a "town" Tatariv, next to me, sleeping now, is a tall, blackhaired beauty with iceblue eyes and the most amazing smile.
This is my seventh trip to meet her, and in a few days we are taking a roadtrip through Poland up to Sweden for her first time outside Ukraine, we have now spent 16 days together, and we are planning on another 10 days before she needs to fly home and go to work again, as me..
 
I have bought her flowers on 9 occasions, 1 very nice necklace for valentines, and then I added a couple of earrings that matches the necklace on her birthday in mars.
She asked me to return the earrings, since I spent to much on her already she thinks.
I pick up the bill in restaurants 100% of the times, I payed for every taxi, rental car and hotelroom, coffee/tea or icecream that has come our way.
I don't think that would never even cross her mind to do, and I would almost be offended if she did.

She do buy me small things, memorabilia, sweets with cherry she knows I like and a nice shirt she thought "I would look so sexy in"

Now my lady is
1. Older then 35 (no kids)
2. Has a very good job as assistant bankmanager - makes ok money, not to say good money.
4. Lives in a smaller city - Zhytomyr - but has from day one been very adamant that I came to see her in her city, met her friends, met her parents.
3. Has more shoes then a shoe store. The first woman I met that can outrun me on the street wearing 4-5 inch heels any time of the day in any weather.. even in winter.
5. Is the biggest fashionista I ever met, looooves shopping. Not exclusively expensive brands, but prefer them absolutely.
We have gone shopping 5-6 times, not once has she even looked at me when it was time to pay.. "I really like this, do you like it, do I look good?" she asked while parading around as a model in the store. I said "yes" (and more then once drooled a little) and then she just went and bought it and came back with a big smile.

She has suggested more then once that I come live in Ukraine, she knows I can find something I like to do there and she knows I love the country, or well, the culture and people anyway. 
I have met all her closest friends (visit 1,2,3,4,6)
I have met her entire family, including grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins that came from Nikolaev just to meet me (visit 3)
I have spent a long weekend in her parents Dasha with parents and grandparents (visit 5)

Yes I know I am bragging, I am entitled to, she is way to beautiful and "hot" for me.  ;D
she is a 12, I am in my best days a 6..or 5.. but I'm 11 in bed, that's why she loves me.  8)

but the thing is Trench -  this is how I know we are right for each other, we spent maybe 100-150 hours on skype and on the phone (viber) the first 3 weeks before I came to see her for the first time, we talked about everything, from what we like to eat to how much I looked forward to eat her.... we always found some subject, some interest to talk about..a lot of late nights and always stayed in contact one way or another during the working days even we both are very busy at work.
Now we have both been exclusive since day one we found out in our talks, but we decided on this trip(!) in words, to take this to the next level, to really commit.

so you must understand, you have a lot of homework to do before you nail this, even if you ask a million questions . you never understand the answers, or want to understand what you are told. That is your one way ticket to disaster...every time I think. 

Now I wish you all good night, I will climb in to bed and enjoy the fruits of my labor now :P

On another note, I couldn't reach the forum from the mobile connection I use here, Kyivstar - Site can not be reached -.. had to use a VPN home to access.
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 12:24:57 AM
quote author=Nightwish link=topic=22008.msg464826#msg464826 date=1500339687]
This thread is sooo amusing, Trench -  the man who saw scammers in every corner and one of the cheapest SOB I ever seen here - got some well deserved sex, and now have to pay for it and then complains, who could have guessed   :-\

This disaster of a trainwreck most of us saw from the very beginning - you have only been thinking, and is still thinking with your little head - (by any chance you were a virgin before you met her?) but my only suggestion - drop her like a hot smelling turd and get on with your life, she is not in to you .. and change yourself before you go looking in Ukraine or Russia again, you simply can't handle those women, or any women I would say.

I am currently sitting in a warm nice cabin in the Carpathians just outside a "town" Tatariv, next to me, sleeping now, is a tall, blackhaired beauty with iceblue eyes and the most amazing smile.
This is my seventh trip to meet her, and in a few days we are taking a roadtrip through Poland up to Sweden for her first time outside Ukraine, we have now spent 16 days together, and we are planning on another 10 days before she needs to fly home and go to work again, as me..
 
I have bought her flowers on 9 occasions, 1 very nice necklace for valentines, and then I added a couple of earrings that matches the necklace on her birthday in mars.
She asked me to return the earrings, since I spent to much on her already she thinks.
I pick up the bill in restaurants 100% of the times, I payed for every taxi, rental car and hotelroom, coffee/tea or icecream that has come our way.
I don't think that would never even cross her mind to do, and I would almost be offended if she did.

She do buy me small things, memorabilia, sweets with cherry she knows I like and a nice shirt she thought "I would look so sexy in"

Now my lady is
1. Older then 35 (no kids)
2. Has a very good job as assistant bankmanager - makes ok money, not to say good money.
4. Lives in a smaller city - Zhytomyr - but has from day one been very adamant that I came to see her in her city, met her friends, met her parents.
3. Has more shoes then a shoe store. The first woman I met that can outrun me on the street wearing 4-5 inch heels any time of the day in any weather.. even in winter.
5. Is the biggest fashionista I ever met, looooves shopping. Not exclusively expensive brands, but prefer them absolutely.
We have gone shopping 5-6 times, not once has she even looked at me when it was time to pay.. "I really like this, do you like it, do I look good?" she asked while parading around as a model in the store. I said "yes" (and more then once drooled a little) and then she just went and bought it and came back with a big smile.

She has suggested more then once that I come live in Ukraine, she knows I can find something I like to do there and she knows I love the country, or well, the culture and people anyway. 
I have met all her closest friends (visit 1,2,3,4,6)
I have met her entire family, including grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins that came from Nikolaev just to meet me (visit 3)
I have spent a long weekend in her parents Dasha with parents and grandparents (visit 5)

Yes I know I am bragging, I am entitled to, she is way to beautiful and "hot" for me.  ;D
she is a 12, I am in my best days a 6..or 5.. but I'm 11 in bed, that's why she loves me.  8)

but the thing is Trench -  this is how I know we are right for each other, we spent maybe 100-150 hours on skype and on the phone (viber) the first 3 weeks before I came to see her for the first time, we talked about everything, from what we like to eat to how much I looked forward to eat her.... we always found some subject, some interest to talk about..a lot of late nights and always stayed in contact one way or another during the working days even we both are very busy at work.
Now we have both been exclusive since day one we found out in our talks, but we decided on this trip(!) in words, to take this to the next level, to really commit.

so you must understand, you have a lot of homework to do before you nail this, even if you ask a million questions . you never understand the answers, or want to understand what you are told. That is your one way ticket to disaster...every time I think. 

Now I wish you all good night, I will climb in to bed and enjoy the fruits of my labor now :P

On another note, I couldn't reach the forum from the mobile connection I use here, Kyivstar - Site can not be reached -.. had to use a VPN home to access.
[/quote]

OK I get it Nightwish you Skyped a lot and a lot of women that had ideas other than looking for a real relationship would have dropped out long before the 150 hours reached and various random phone calls in their day. Yes perhaps I should have done a lot more Skype hours before meeting this girl in the first place, but her English was apparently not good at the time and I assumed it was tiring on both of us. I  can still not be quite sure if she really does/did have bad English or was just faking it. If she was faking it she was keeping up the charade well, more recent she does seem to have improved when on holiday but still not 100 percent. She did of course do English at school & I have paid for English lessons (about 100 Euros for 10 lessons) so maybe it was a case of it all coming back to her I'm just not sure. My girl doesn't have a good job like yours, she earns a lot less no doubt. I was never after a girl for the job she does though I can see when it comes to shopping it would ease the situation.

I personally only have so much free time I can use Skype for, though I can see now that time spent on many hours on skype with girl can mean many hours not wasted on trips to see the wrong girl. That said of course there are those on here that would say a girl will get fed up if no meeting was forthcoming after Skyping a fair while.

I'm guessing you hit up quite a number of girls on Skype before you got to one that seemed to hit the mark Nightwish? in terms of willing to skype you back without any reason not too that may seem perfectly valid.

I'm still not keen on all the online/skype approach that much, I'm still veering towards just going out to a town/city in the FSU for a while and just calling up girls there and then and date as the locals do get away from all the bs of online dating from afar. 

Lets face it there is a lot of bs on these online dating sites and for the newbie its easy to be suckered into the wrong girl who is happy to meet all too quickly for whatever reason other than wanting a real relationship.

The girl I am with at the moment I'm really not sure its going to go long term. She just seems to want to come to UK and I doubt her motives. She's refusing at the moment to see me if I come to Kherson and if she was serious I don't think she would be doing that. If it comes to another go at this in the near future I am wanting to get out there and meet all these girls first hand without any bs in the way.

So I'm surprised you aren't yet stated you are committed to this girl Nightwish - Looks to me you have more than the input that many do before committing. I mean you have met all her extended family and all, are you perhaps in danger of being a bit too non-committal?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 12:43:10 AM
She is a woman, you are a man. She loves being a woman and wants you to
be a man. She will do more of household work and you will do more earning
type work.

What are you talking about 50/50? Are you joking? Do you want a Western
woman or a FSU woman?

Stop! don't continue just stop.

Please make a list of what you are seeking. If you have one or two private
desire(s) delete that from the list and post it here. I've made assumptions
about what you were seeking and I can see now that I am totally incorrect.
I have no f#cking clue to what you want, and I can't and the other forum
member can't help you unless we know what you are seeking.

So, post the list and I will see if there is anything I can do to help, but I
can't continue to flail about with no idea what you are seeking.

Udachi!

Bill

Well its really is a very short list Bill, basically I want a girl with:

-Natural Chemistry
-Genuinely wants a Serious, Committed Relationship
-Wants Children pretty soon
-Willing to make sacrifices for the Relationship
-Willing to do part time work to afford herself her own spending money
-Preferably no Children already as I would prefer a clean slate


I mean I don't think its too much to ask to ask the girl to do a little work so as to have her own money that she would just be spending on herself anyway (& maybe a bit for groceries) i.e clothing, beauty products, etc.

I'm happy paying the main big costs like accommodation, taxes, utility bills, car running costs, flights, all my own shopping costs and the odd occasional shopping costs of hers. I mean it doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I'm not asking for her to go 50/50, just hold a bit of her own self-weight financially. Essentially I am allowing any money she earns as free spending money to spend on herself her own leisure which she apparently doesn't have at the moment it goes on her half of apartment rental cost. So she would be getting a far better deal than she is at present but no she seems to want to be disagreeable to me going to Kherson to advance our relationship and instead seems happy staying in her present predicament which is worse off than I am offering her.

Part of my issue is if she doesn't work at all to pay for anything, her own clothes, etc then she is not going to respect my money. The best I can do then is say here's X amount of money for the month, that's it. I can just see her spending X amount on herself then coming back for more before the month is out. i.e if she doesn't earn it she just won't care as its not her money being spent or wasted.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 02:03:58 AM

but the thing is Trench -  this is how I know we are right for each other, we spent maybe 100-150 hours on skype and on the phone (viber) the first 3 weeks before I came to see her for the first time, we talked about everything, from what we like to eat to how much I looked forward to eat her.... we always found some subject, some interest to talk about..a lot of late nights and always stayed in contact one way or another during the working days even we both are very busy at work.


So you were averaging roughly 5-7 hours per day on Skype, phone, etc. I wonder what you actually do for work that affords you this amount off time to talk Nightwish unless you are bs ing me. That and while I can talk to some women about all sorts and one topic rolls into the next I am surprised you had not run out of stuff to say or covered the same turf a lot, or one of you got bored/fed up.

I know before you have made a claim on this forum about the number of visits you do abroad, which again makes me wonder what you do for work - are you rich, an owner of a business you can leave and keep paying for trips abroad, or just bs.

Perhaps you are telling the truth, you seem to have made a fair bit of progress in your 1-2 years of looking (about the same as me). I will admit that my shortcoming so far (among others but we all make mistakes) is that the relationship have not perhaps gone deep enough so that I only have a one-dimensional  take on the girl. This I should have sorted out before visiting. I think though that there are many girls online that just want to give a one dimensional view of themselves. For me I will rectify this (if present girl does not come around) by going out there and getting to know the woman in their own setting and have the necessary time to devout to a relationship instead of a holiday outing. I mean for what its worth Nightwish what you are presently doing is a holiday outing - why not move to a more permanent footing with this girl? You know her (& her family) well enough now surely. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 18, 2017, 05:24:15 AM
Trench, 2tallbill is right on. Stop it. Don't pursue this anymore.
You can't be thinking about her working to make her own spending money. Ridiculous. You have to provide for her. If you can't, do not pursue FSUW. If she works eventually, well and good.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on July 18, 2017, 10:18:18 AM
So you were averaging roughly 5-7 hours per day on Skype, phone, etc. I wonder what you actually do for work that affords you this amount off time to talk Nightwish unless you are bs ing me. That and while I can talk to some women about all sorts and one topic rolls into the next I am surprised you had not run out of stuff to say or covered the same turf a lot, or one of you got bored/fed up.

I know before you have made a claim on this forum about the number of visits you do abroad, which again makes me wonder what you do for work - are you rich, an owner of a business you can leave and keep paying for trips abroad, or just bs.

Perhaps you are telling the truth, you seem to have made a fair bit of progress in your 1-2 years of looking (about the same as me). I will admit that my shortcoming so far (among others but we all make mistakes) is that the relationship have not perhaps gone deep enough so that I only have a one-dimensional  take on the girl. This I should have sorted out before visiting. I think though that there are many girls online that just want to give a one dimensional view of themselves. For me I will rectify this (if present girl does not come around) by going out there and getting to know the woman in their own setting and have the necessary time to devout to a relationship instead of a holiday outing. I mean for what its worth Nightwish what you are presently doing is a holiday outing - why not move to a more permanent footing with this girl? You know her (& her family) well enough now surely.

First of all, I don't know how many hours exactly, but we spoke I would guess on average 3-4 hours every single day for 26 days before I could go. Sometimes just 2,5 hours on the phone, sometimes 1-2 hours skype and then 5 hours on the phone instead of sleeping. We where like a couple of teenagers talking endlessly on the phone. Sleeping is for the married couples :D

I can tell you exactly how this happened, I met one of her girlfriends online on a site almost 1,5 years ago, I talked to her for about 2-3 weeks and decided to come meet her, we had a good time, she was very sweet and nice, but there was something lacking in feelings, she felt a lot more like a very good friend the a potential future wife. So we decided we would just be friends. She then talked to Tanya at one time and said, "contact this man, he is a good man, he is serious and very attentive and very handsome"
So Tanya took contact on Viber, called me after about an hour of text-chatting and this all started.
She fell instantly for me as I did for her, everything felt amazing from day one. I did tell her from the start, I can't come to Ukraine until next month since I had a big project at work, and she only said - "good then we have plenty of time to get to know each other".
I wont write a whole trip-report, certainly not right now when I am with her.

But from that first day, she has called me maybe 70% of the times, when ever I called her, she giggled a bit and then tried to sneak away from what she was doing.. and when you have this chemistry, firstly there is no forbidden topics, secondly I WANT to, and really ENJOY talking to her, how could we run out of subjects? If you find yourself having a hard time finding things to talk about, especially if you dont live together - how possible?
We talk about everything that has happened in our life, memories, lifestories, politics, music, movies. We compare my life "in west" to hers in "the east", she can't really remember anything "Soviet" but she grew up during the Perestroika and the independence of Ukraine.
We enjoy talking about all the places we will visit when she comes here to live, what she wants to do with her life, where we want to live and what kind of life we want. So we always have things to talk about.. longest phonecall, night 3 or 4 I think it was, 9 hours straight.. we even had breakfast together on skype.. that is what 100% (LDR) chemistry is.. of course none of us planned it in advance, it was just that wonderful to have her in my life from day one.

I have - before I met Tanya - been to Ukraine 24 times in these 3 years or so I have been active, one of those was a longer relationship for about 7 months (8-9 visits) but in the end it fell apart for reasons that was out of our control, lets just say family issues.

I personally only have so much free time I can use Skype for, though I can see now that time spent on many hours on skype with girl can mean many hours not wasted on trips to see the wrong girl. That said of course there are those on here that would say a girl will get fed up if no meeting was forthcoming after Skyping a fair while.
The shortest time I talked online with someone before going there to meet her - 4 days
The longest time 1 month.
I'm guessing you hit up quite a number of girls on Skype before you got to one that seemed to hit the mark Nightwish? in terms of willing to skype you back without any reason not too that may seem perfectly valid.
Yes, I have met 25-30 girls during these 3,5 years, tried both WMVM  (and my preferred way) WOVO.


I'm still not keen on all the online/skype approach that much, I'm still veering towards just going out to a town/city in the FSU for a while and just calling up girls there and then and date as the locals do get away from all the bs of online dating from afar. 

You will fail, you will bomb, you will not meet a single woman that way - at least none that is for marriage. Not with your attitude and your "skills"
All local men will "out-date" you in this way, you still don't understand how this is done online and you will fail miserably locally. Prepare for a lot of lonesome nights at the apartment crying yourself to sleep then.

Lets face it there is a lot of bs on these online dating sites and for the newbie its easy to be suckered into the wrong girl who is happy to meet all too quickly for whatever reason other than wanting a real relationship.

Yes and I have met all kinds, too young, too old, to much gold-digger and some wonderful women that just didn't click.

So I'm surprised you aren't yet stated you are committed to this girl Nightwish - Looks to me you have more than the input that many do before committing. I mean you have met all her extended family and all, are you perhaps in danger of being a bit too non-committal?
Didn't I write clearly that we on this trip made it "official", it's never been anything but committed I would say, just not spoken. we talked about it after my first trip, that we would keep it exclusive, but it never had to be said to be fait, both she and I feel the same way.

and as far as my job, its been a lot of planning free days,. going on a lot of 4 day weekend trips.. its only 5 hours from my home to Kiev so to speak.
I am not rich, I am not a business owner, I have a high paid normal job, 8-5 and one very understanding boss :)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 18, 2017, 01:44:04 PM
I mean I don't think its too much to ask to ask the girl to do a little work so as to have her own money that she would just be spending on herself anyway (& maybe a bit for groceries) i.e clothing, beauty products, etc.


Not too much to ask at all, in fact it's quite preferable to have the wife work and contribute. I've seen more than one RW go stir crazy from nowhere to go and nothing to do. Lack of self worth, leads to nothing but trouble. Make her an active part of her own acclimation and self sufficiency drive. You WANT her to be successful in everything she does.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 03:18:57 PM

Not too much to ask at all, in fact it's quite preferable to have the wife work and contribute. I've seen more than one RW go stir crazy from nowhere to go and nothing to do. Lack of self worth, leads to nothing but trouble. Make her an active part of her own acclimation and self sufficiency drive. You WANT her to be successful in everything she does.

I agree Steamer, doing too much for someone that they don't feel any need to be motivated and takes person they're with for granted does no good. They can just end up dumping everything on the other half and that can get burdensome. 2tallbill's wife says he's wife does a part time job. Wall I do think you may have a tendency to see money as a device to use in this venture. Be careful I would say, I would play down money you have to a reasonable level. If girl picks up that you have money you will never know if she is with you for the right reasons until it is too late. I should have played down the money side of things more if anything and I'm not real rich. I remember Wall you saying you're girl asked if you are good for money and you laughed and nodded. I personally think that was a mistake, you may still be ok and I hope you are but I would be cautious if I were you. i.e she may be playing the long game.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 03:45:57 PM
Below is a link to another thread -- I did not post it here in this thread when I first saw it --  but --  I keep seeing the inane ideas of the op here -- it reminds me of all the potential for an abnormal relationship to go very wrong when a social misfit embarks on a cross cultural search.


Mail Order Murder

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22017.msg464768#msg464768

The documentary can be watched here--
The Perfect Bride

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4229048/

Like yourself perhaps JayH. After all you are still looking after 5 years. Sometimes it takes time for sure but how are we to know that you aren't a social misfit.

As for me I am not short, fat or balding. Of course many of us on this search probably don't percolate in the 'in crowd' of social activity or would be accepted readily by the very social types in society. That can of course be a problem when looking abroad.

I of course can see the comparison but it is a problem many in this venture no doubt face. Take Alexander the OP for example he got hit by a girl like that who was with him for the green card then upgraded. For a girl to be a guy for two years - All that time then just leave him is heartless.

What I'm saying is different to what the guy in the  episode is doing. Im saying be wary of that type in the first place and don't try to control a situation that has already gotten out of control. I don't see any harm in passively protecting the assets you've worked hard for and residency status of someone who may unjustly be interested in imitation rather than the original aim they stated of dating/relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 18, 2017, 06:44:18 PM
When they talk about two people being divided by a common language, most people here would assume WM and FSUW, simply because her English isn't native level, and guys have posted numerous (mainly humorous) examples over the years.  For me (and JayH and southernX, and possibly moby and sandro), it's real English versus American.

Now, there is another category - one which Trenchcoat inhabits all by himself.  I seriously cannot believe that, after all that has been written (even if you take this thread by itself), he can possibly still be interested in pursuing a long-term relationship with this woman.  While I doubt that many share his view that she is possibly a scammer, there is absolutely nothing she has done (from what has been written here) to make anyone think she is worth pursuing.  Just because she's 24 and 10/10 doesn't make her special ENOUGH - there are plenty of other Ukrainian women that match that categorisation, but who don't act the way she does.

For crying out loud, he has raised umpteen issues HIMSELF about what she's done that he doesn't like - and he STILL wants to carry on chasing her?  :cluebat:  All that's aside from the various issues which other posters have themselves noted.  I honestly can't recall anyone else in the years I've been a member who has not only been so blindly dogmatic about what he's doing, but insists that what he's doing, and how he's doing it, is the ONLY possible way - despite those who've been that way before (some of whom have quite possibly done exactly the same thing when they were young and foolish  :devil:) ALL telling him that it won't work.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 06:53:16 PM
at a rough adding up I'm guessing the clothes came to around £400 (possibly more think some more costs appeared on my credit card since I added this up), cosmetics & sprays around £200 and her half of the food bill around £400.


This is a cultural miscue on your part.  No, and I mean NO FSUM would ever expect a woman to take her on holiday and not pay for her food.  It's just foreign to the culture.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 06:55:59 PM
I bought her a pressure washer and she washes the house, the car


Pressure washers can damage/weaken car tires.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 06:59:54 PM
Sounds good Bill and a nice life to have :)

Well my present girl I don't know what her idea is in terms of when we live together. She has already stated she doesn't want to go 50/50. In UK I think she could get a job either in retail or basic management her language skills I think are good enough now for that.

At the moment she is throwing her toys out of the pram as she states that she first comes to me or we don't meet at all if I chose to come to Kherson. She is is stating that I am not serious about her because of this despite me visiting her in Kiev and paying for holiday in the sun. The visa she requires I think could likely come with many additional expenses as she currently has no bank account, etc. She seems to be upping the pressure. I just don't know as I don't know if I am going to go to all the expense and hassle of getting her said visa for her then to take of with some other guy. The fact that she is upping the pressure and getting more forceful I just don't like, its not a good sign in my mind. Yes she thinks I have a wife already but I have said to her about connecting on Facebook and stating relation as then if I had someone else it would come out. She says this proves nothing and is not interested, I disagree even though I am not a big fan of Facebook. My thoughts are still that is she was into me enough she would visit me wherever so I'm having my doubts. Also she has been logging onto her dating account recently, she says it was to check on me but I really wonder. I asked her to take her profile down of the search but she does not seem to know what I am getting at - she seems to think its a case of deleting account and wants us to do this together to be sure. Myself I wonder if its a delaying tactic that she is ling up blokes to meet in UK when she get the Visa and I will be sidelined. She apparently has a friend in UK so guessing she could alternatively chose to stay with her.

I personally wonder if she just wants a quick in to the UK and I am a convenient mule and so it doesn't matter if I'm not really rich as she can sort that out later, just so long as she gets in. Its why I really want to spend some time out in Ukraine whether with her or looking for a girl as I don;t want the whole visa/immigration thing to get in the way.


It's not easy to pick up and move to a new country.  And you are expecting a woman to get a job and earn her way from day 1 as well! 


Were she "lining up blokes", she would have asked her friend to prepare a visa for her from the get go, no need for you!


Perhaps moby can clarify, but I assumed that it is difficult for Ukrainians to obtain tourist visas to the UK.  If not, then I don't understand your hesitancy, since you are into this girl.  You don't have to marry her.   It would give you a good understanding of how she would adapt to life abroad, and you'll be in your element.  If I could have had my husband visit before we married, I would have jumped through every hoop possible to make it happen.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 18, 2017, 07:01:44 PM
First of all, I don't know how many hours exactly, but we spoke I would guess on average 3-4 hours every single day for 26 days before I could go. Sometimes just 2,5 hours on the phone, sometimes 1-2 hours skype and then 5 hours on the phone instead of sleeping. We where like a couple of teenagers talking endlessly on the phone. Sleeping is for the married couples :D

I can tell you exactly how this happened, I met one of her girlfriends online on a site almost 1,5 years ago, I talked to her for about 2-3 weeks and decided to come meet her, we had a good time, she was very sweet and nice, but there was something lacking in feelings, she felt a lot more like a very good friend the a potential future wife. So we decided we would just be friends. She then talked to Tanya at one time and said, "contact this man, he is a good man, he is serious and very attentive and very handsome"
So Tanya took contact on Viber, called me after about an hour of text-chatting and this all started.
She fell instantly for me as I did for her, everything felt amazing from day one. I did tell her from the start, I can't come to Ukraine until next month since I had a big project at work, and she only said - "good then we have plenty of time to get to know each other".
I wont write a whole trip-report, certainly not right now when I am with her.

But from that first day, she has called me maybe 70% of the times, when ever I called her, she giggled a bit and then tried to sneak away from what she was doing.. and when you have this chemistry, firstly there is no forbidden topics, secondly I WANT to, and really ENJOY talking to her, how could we run out of subjects? If you find yourself having a hard time finding things to talk about, especially if you dont live together - how possible?
We talk about everything that has happened in our life, memories, lifestories, politics, music, movies. We compare my life "in west" to hers in "the east", she can't really remember anything "Soviet" but she grew up during the Perestroika and the independence of Ukraine.
We enjoy talking about all the places we will visit when she comes here to live, what she wants to do with her life, where we want to live and what kind of life we want. So we always have things to talk about.. longest phonecall, night 3 or 4 I think it was, 9 hours straight.. we even had breakfast together on skype.. that is what 100% (LDR) chemistry is.. of course none of us planned it in advance, it was just that wonderful to have her in my life from day one.

I have - before I met Tanya - been to Ukraine 24 times in these 3 years or so I have been active, one of those was a longer relationship for about 7 months (8-9 visits) but in the end it fell apart for reasons that was out of our control, lets just say family issues.
The shortest time I talked online with someone before going there to meet her - 4 days
The longest time 1 month. Yes, I have met 25-30 girls during these 3,5 years, tried both WMVM  (and my preferred way) WOVO.

You will fail, you will bomb, you will not meet a single woman that way - at least none that is for marriage. Not with your attitude and your "skills"
All local men will "out-date" you in this way, you still don't understand how this is done online and you will fail miserably locally. Prepare for a lot of lonesome nights at the apartment crying yourself to sleep then.

Yes and I have met all kinds, too young, too old, to much gold-digger and some wonderful women that just didn't click.
Didn't I write clearly that we on this trip made it "official", it's never been anything but committed I would say, just not spoken. we talked about it after my first trip, that we would keep it exclusive, but it never had to be said to be fait, both she and I feel the same way.

and as far as my job, its been a lot of planning free days,. going on a lot of 4 day weekend trips.. its only 5 hours from my home to Kiev so to speak.
I am not rich, I am not a business owner, I have a high paid normal job, 8-5 and one very understanding boss :)

too tru night wish , very similar to my experience with my wife when we first met, it all just clicked and we both felt it was right to pursue it full on at every moment we could , i used to get up at midnight to talk in skype with her for 3-4 hours , weekends was up to 8-12 hours sometimes , not difficult when it feels right

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 18, 2017, 07:04:00 PM

This is a cultural miscue on your part.  No, and I mean NO FSUM would ever expect a woman to take her on holiday and not pay for her food.  It's just foreign to the culture.

bo is correct here , this is a very basic miscue on your part mr trench,

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 07:04:11 PM
OK I get it Nightwish you Skyped a lot and a lot of women that had ideas other than looking for a real relationship would have dropped out long before the 150 hours reached and various random phone calls in their day. Yes perhaps I should have done a lot more Skype hours before meeting this girl in the first place, but her English was apparently not good at the time and I assumed it was tiring on both of us. I  can still not be quite sure if she really does/did have bad English or was just faking it. If she was faking it she was keeping up the charade well, more recent she does seem to have improved when on holiday but still not 100 percent. She did of course do English at school & I have paid for English lessons (about 100 Euros for 10 lessons) so maybe it was a case of it all coming back to her I'm just not sure. My girl doesn't have a good job like yours, she earns a lot less no doubt. I was never after a girl for the job she does though I can see when it comes to shopping it would ease the situation.

I personally only have so much free time I can use Skype for, though I can see now that time spent on many hours on skype with girl can mean many hours not wasted on trips to see the wrong girl. That said of course there are those on here that would say a girl will get fed up if no meeting was forthcoming after Skyping a fair while.

I'm guessing you hit up quite a number of girls on Skype before you got to one that seemed to hit the mark Nightwish? in terms of willing to skype you back without any reason not too that may seem perfectly valid.

I'm still not keen on all the online/skype approach that much, I'm still veering towards just going out to a town/city in the FSU for a while and just calling up girls there and then and date as the locals do get away from all the bs of online dating from afar. 

Lets face it there is a lot of bs on these online dating sites and for the newbie its easy to be suckered into the wrong girl who is happy to meet all too quickly for whatever reason other than wanting a real relationship.

The girl I am with at the moment I'm really not sure its going to go long term. She just seems to want to come to UK and I doubt her motives. She's refusing at the moment to see me if I come to Kherson and if she was serious I don't think she would be doing that. If it comes to another go at this in the near future I am wanting to get out there and meet all these girls first hand without any bs in the way.

So I'm surprised you aren't yet stated you are committed to this girl Nightwish - Looks to me you have more than the input that many do before committing. I mean you have met all her extended family and all, are you perhaps in danger of being a bit too non-committal?


First, congratulations, Nightwish.


No, Trench, you missed the point Nighwish was making.  You have to have interests besides bed to have a successful relationship.  His relationship with this woman is successful because they can speak on any topic, and stay engaged with one another.  This person should be the most interesting person in your universe, to you. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 07:05:23 PM
Well its really is a very short list Bill, basically I want a girl with:

-Natural Chemistry
-Genuinely wants a Serious, Committed Relationship
-Wants Children pretty soon
-Willing to make sacrifices for the Relationship
-Willing to do part time work to afford herself her own spending money
-Preferably no Children already as I would prefer a clean slate


I mean I don't think its too much to ask to ask the girl to do a little work so as to have her own money that she would just be spending on herself anyway (& maybe a bit for groceries) i.e clothing, beauty products, etc.

I'm happy paying the main big costs like accommodation, taxes, utility bills, car running costs, flights, all my own shopping costs and the odd occasional shopping costs of hers. I mean it doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I'm not asking for her to go 50/50, just hold a bit of her own self-weight financially. Essentially I am allowing any money she earns as free spending money to spend on herself her own leisure which she apparently doesn't have at the moment it goes on her half of apartment rental cost. So she would be getting a far better deal than she is at present but no she seems to want to be disagreeable to me going to Kherson to advance our relationship and instead seems happy staying in her present predicament which is worse off than I am offering her.

Part of my issue is if she doesn't work at all to pay for anything, her own clothes, etc then she is not going to respect my money. The best I can do then is say here's X amount of money for the month, that's it. I can just see her spending X amount on herself then coming back for more before the month is out. i.e if she doesn't earn it she just won't care as its not her money being spent or wasted.


So what are you giving her?  What sacrifices are you willing to make for the relationship?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 07:07:20 PM

Not too much to ask at all, in fact it's quite preferable to have the wife work and contribute. I've seen more than one RW go stir crazy from nowhere to go and nothing to do. Lack of self worth, leads to nothing but trouble. Make her an active part of her own acclimation and self sufficiency drive. You WANT her to be successful in everything she does.


But you want that so that she is happy.  Not because you want her to pull her economic weight in the relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2017, 07:08:40 PM
I agree Steamer, doing too much for someone that they don't feel any need to be motivated and takes person they're with for granted does no good. They can just end up dumping everything on the other half and that can get burdensome. 2tallbill's wife says he's wife does a part time job. Wall I do think you may have a tendency to see money as a device to use in this venture. Be careful I would say, I would play down money you have to a reasonable level. If girl picks up that you have money you will never know if she is with you for the right reasons until it is too late. I should have played down the money side of things more if anything and I'm not real rich. I remember Wall you saying you're girl asked if you are good for money and you laughed and nodded. I personally think that was a mistake, you may still be ok and I hope you are but I would be cautious if I were you. i.e she may be playing the long game.


For the average Ukrainian, every Westerner has money.  So this "advice" is silly.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 18, 2017, 07:56:09 PM
Well its really is a very short list Bill, basically I want a girl with:

-Natural Chemistry
-Genuinely wants a Serious, Committed Relationship
-Wants Children pretty soon
-Willing to make sacrifices for the Relationship
-Willing to do part time work to afford herself her own spending money
-Preferably no Children already as I would prefer a clean slate

Where is the 50/50 part?
You posted all those goals in a few lines but couldn't do it with
your financial goals for her which was long and rambling. You
need to get those goals in simple, concise one line statements
as well.

Write them again and again until they are S.M.A.R.T.

Goals have to be Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant
and Timely and especially not rambling. FSUW don't do vague.

She won't be able to work immediately and the job probably
won't pay much and she will need a ton of help and support
especially in the beginning. Moving to a new country, culture,
language and leaving everything behind is a real tough challenge
and putting financial pressure on her will cause enormous grief.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on July 18, 2017, 09:08:20 PM
Wall I do think you may have a tendency to see money as a device to use in this venture. Be careful I would say, I would play down money you have to a reasonable level. If girl picks up that you have money you will never know if she is with you for the right reasons until it is too late. I should have played down the money side of things more if anything and I'm not real rich. I remember Wall you saying you're girl asked if you are good for money and you laughed and nodded. I personally think that was a mistake, you may still be ok and I hope you are but I would be cautious if I were you. i.e she may be playing the long game.

I can't help but shake my head. ::) I do not use money as device. I am not taking her shopping and then bitching about it. She asked me in the first week we spent together if I need my future wife to work immediately upon coming to the US. I said no. I explained it will take her a year or two to assimilate into the culture and lifestyle. She will have to learn the language via ESL classes. Then if she wants to work, I will support her. I am sure she will work because she is smart, educated and won't be happy not working. But once she is here, her welfare is my responsibility. FSUW want their man to provide for the family and protect them.

I can't think everyone is a scammer. I am not a suspicious rat like you. I can't think along the lines of her "playing the long game." This is not golf. I know what to do if I suspect something is amiss. The lady I am pursuing works two jobs. She is educated and independent. She has yet to ask me for anything. I paid for all our travel in Ukraine, food, taxis. She doesn't make enough to afford some of that. I never for a second thought about why I am paying. Moreover, she needs to understand I can take care of her, provide for her. I am not a cheap SOB.;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 18, 2017, 09:10:10 PM
Nightwish, sounds like you got a woman that is "into you". That is what every newbie should be going after. If a guy settles for less, he'll get less.



Pressure washers can damage/weaken car tires.

Car tires support thousands of pounds, roll down the street 100 mph in 100 degree plus heat and survive for years and discarded only because there isn't enough tread left to provide adequate traction in wet or icy conditions. Car tires are much tougher than house paint yet professionals use pressure washers to clean the siding of a house before repainting. The secret is to hold the pressure washer far away enough to not damage the item to be cleaned but close enough to get the dirt off. With high enough pressure, water is used to cut steel but the pressure washers aren't that powerful but it will cut skin or peel paint. It can damage the rubber of a tire if improperly applied at point blank range.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 18, 2017, 09:17:04 PM
. . . the pressure washers aren't that powerful but it will cut skin or peel paint.


Good point.

I think I will try using a pressure washer to give myself a facial dermabrasion.
Cheaper than going to a doc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 10:19:09 PM
Where is the 50/50 part?
You posted all those goals in a few lines but couldn't do it with
your financial goals for her which was long and rambling. You
need to get those goals in simple, concise one line statements
as well.

Write them again and again until they are S.M.A.R.T.

Goals have to be Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant
and Timely and especially not rambling. FSUW don't do vague.

She won't be able to work immediately and the job probably
won't pay much and she will need a ton of help and support
especially in the beginning. Moving to a new country, culture,
language and leaving everything behind is a real tough challenge
and putting financial pressure on her will cause enormous grief.

There's no 50/50 part for finances Bill. I initially just raised it with girl as an example of how Western Man & Women often go about financing the relationship.

I don't expect her to go 50/50 or anything close. All I want is her to get a part time job, not necessarily immediately but over time so to cover her clothes shopping habits. Otherwise as I see it she will have no clue about how much it all costs, go overboard and burden me with large expenses.

So may financial goal for her:

- Get a basic pay job as soon as she can to pay for her clothes shopping habit.

She has quite good English now and can come across well, I don't think she would have as much of a problem as some on here think. It would just be a question of finding the right fit for her.

Of course I would pay the main costs of the relationship, all if needs be. It just makes sense to me for the relationship for the girl to work part time to ease the expenses.

Honestly, she's lucky I'm not a Scotsman, they're world renown for being exceedingly tight :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 10:23:50 PM

For the average Ukrainian, every Westerner has money.  So this "advice" is silly.

Then they assume all westerners are good for a good shaking down through foreign dating ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 18, 2017, 10:43:13 PM

So what are you giving her?  What sacrifices are you willing to make for the relationship?

What am I giving her:

-Myself ;D
-My Love
-A Family of her own (when she has children)
-An easier lifestyle than before (instead of working all hours under the sun she will work just a few)
-A better place to live (granted it is not a mansion but its still much better than a crumbling Soviet apartment block, a bit more roomy too)
-Financial spending power of her own (she will not longer have to put all her money over to rent each month, in fact none of what she earns will be, she be able to keep it and spend or save it for herself)
-A country where the money she earns is worth more than at home (so she can earn her monthly wage in about 2-3 days here for the whole month, if she work 2-3 days per week she would earn far more than her monthly wage)

I am willing to bear the financial cost of immigration, visits, courting, etc as I have paid for the two holidays to date. I have even bought her some clothes so she will no longer have to walk around in rags  ;)

All I ask in return is a bit of loyalty. I am of course assuming she has a genuine wish to be with me on some meaningful level to me rather than just as a mule to get into the UK. I am somewhat doubtful of loyalty from her though judging from her recent behaviour of 1. Hitting me with clothes & cosmetics shopping bill & 2. Logging onto her online dating site (she says it was just to check I wasn't, hmmn :-\
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 19, 2017, 12:21:59 AM
trench    :cluebat:

you need to stop asap and reflect on what your describing to us about your future wife here

seriously the level of resentment coming through is only going to grow amd it is going to kill it between you both at some point into the future anyway ..

resentment is already stalking you from how you describe her habits & forecast her future , proceeding is not a good idea,

get out now while you can cleanly , then wait , reflect, do some self discovery on what you really want before you move on again

i know you will possibly reject this , but time will likely prove the point to you in the negative

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 19, 2017, 04:19:57 AM

But you want that so that she is happy.  Not because you want her to pull her economic weight in the relationship.


There is nothing wrong with having both.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 19, 2017, 07:32:16 AM
trench    :cluebat:

you need to stop asap and reflect on what your describing to us about your future wife here

seriously the level of resentment coming through is only going to grow amd it is going to kill it between you both at some point into the future anyway ..

resentment is already stalking you from how you describe her habits & forecast her future , proceeding is not a good idea,

get out now while you can cleanly , then wait , reflect, do some self discovery on what you really want before you move on again

i know you will possibly reject this , but time will likely prove the point to you in the negative

SX

So what are you saying, was I unreasonable about the clothes shopping? I mean like I said to her I don't mind a little bit occasionally but I don't want such a clothes shopping trip all the time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Muzh on July 19, 2017, 07:52:45 AM
So what are you saying, was I unreasonable about the clothes shopping? I mean like I said to her I don't mind a little bit occasionally but I don't want such a clothes shopping trip all the time.


What he is saying is that you are hiring a maid (with benefits) not marrying a wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 19, 2017, 09:03:21 AM

What he is saying is that you are hiring a maid (with benefits) not marrying a wife.

Oh I see, thank you Muhz. Yes then that is probably right, she said she was not too young for me and seemed to be into having children in the near future. I think though that I did not take into consideration that she while thinking she was at the stage of family, i.e children was really still not departed from her urges of a young female to put fashion/clothing etc first.

I see now I should have really stuck with my plan to aim at 30 something females and moving away from this was a mistake.

As you correctly say Muhz she is vibrant girlfriend rather than wife material, she may or may not change, but I fear she is a few years of from that if it happens at all. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 19, 2017, 09:31:04 AM
Trench


It is Muzh as in husband ..not Muhz  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 19, 2017, 06:11:20 PM
I $%#%^@#@$%#^#$%^& give up!  :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

Never in my worst nightmares could I imagine someone in this scenario actually CONTINUING to chase the woman in question.

 :naughty: :naughty: :naughty: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :puke: :puke: :puke: :trainwreck: :trainwreck: :trainwreck:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 19, 2017, 09:35:52 PM

What he is saying is that you are hiring a maid (with benefits) not marrying a wife.

pretty much correct

trench you seem to be looking at this woman like purchasing an acreage of land , what will it cost you , what can you get it to produce ?? what income or growth will it give you in the long term for what you are investing ??  WHATS THE RETURN ??

your language here shows resentment towards her already , you seem to be looking for some sort of payback from her ??  or that she will accept your control and expectations on her ??  that it is some sort of gift she should be ever so thankfull for

you made the choice to spend on her , so you are to blame if she has gained that outlook from the outset , it would seem you where so keen to win her attention you allowed yourself to depart from your usual  habits and you now are annoyed/resentful  about it & seem to blame her  and want to get back to the norm    ??

to my mind she and you are not suited from what you write ,

cleanly ,calmly talk with this lady and make it clear you will go to her to meet , if not , then walk away asap .  if you both are hoping to make this work into the future then there should be no need to wish to hide or misrepresent to each other at this stage

total honesty   and see how it flys for you both , and try to lose your fear of being ripped off , it will close you down to all manner of oportunities

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on July 19, 2017, 09:50:02 PM
WHATS THE RETURN ??


So far the only return has been sex. Sex can be addicting and has been known to prevent men from thinking straight and open their wallets.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 20, 2017, 06:14:54 AM
trench you seem to be looking at this woman like purchasing an acreage of land, what will it cost you , what can you get it to produce ?? what income or growth will it give you in the long term for what you are investing ??  WHATS THE RETURN ??

Have you ever noticed that this is exactly how RU/W look at you? It's all business until they feel comfortable with you. Sure it can be off-putting but it's their dating protocol.

your language here shows resentment towards her already , you seem to be looking for some sort of payback from her ??

Not resentment but caution. Suspicion  can serve you well.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on July 22, 2017, 07:03:59 AM
Reading this thread makes me think of the 'worst' of all possible worlds (deals).

On one side one party who wants to maximize the benefits.

On the other side a 'partner; who wants to maximize the future benefits.

That anyone considers uses or thinks of about love, with regards to the above thread, we are discussing an alien abstract concept.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 22, 2017, 07:05:52 AM
What am I giving her:

-Myself ;D
-My Love
-A Family of her own (when she has children)
-An easier lifestyle than before (instead of working all hours under the sun she will work just a few)
-A better place to live (granted it is not a mansion but its still much better than a crumbling Soviet apartment block, a bit more roomy too)
-Financial spending power of her own (she will not longer have to put all her money over to rent each month, in fact none of what she earns will be, she be able to keep it and spend or save it for herself)
-A country where the money she earns is worth more than at home (so she can earn her monthly wage in about 2-3 days here for the whole month, if she work 2-3 days per week she would earn far more than her monthly wage)

I am willing to bear the financial cost of immigration, visits, courting, etc as I have paid for the two holidays to date. I have even bought her some clothes so she will no longer have to walk around in rags  ;)

All I ask in return is a bit of loyalty. I am of course assuming she has a genuine wish to be with me on some meaningful level to me rather than just as a mule to get into the UK. I am somewhat doubtful of loyalty from her though judging from her recent behaviour of 1. Hitting me with clothes & cosmetics shopping bill & 2. Logging onto her online dating site (she says it was just to check I wasn't, hmmn :-\

You may think you are giving a girl plenty..... but she is getting very little......... being with you
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 23, 2017, 08:02:47 PM

They used to call it two birds of a feather.  ;)

He may have a slight problem with color recognition.

Mixing up the Cuban and Puerto Rico flag wouldn't be his greatest sin.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on July 26, 2017, 07:28:26 AM
Whenever you hear the words "real man" from an FSUW, you are being manipulated, or there is an attempt at manipulation.  BTW, a FSUM would not be buying his woman clothes, unless she's his wife, or he's wealthy and she's a disposable side piece. 

What is the age difference?

How are you going to support yourself if you move to Ukraine?

Trench print that out and tape it to the fridge door.


As I've learned more of the language, slang ,and social nuances ,over the years,  I can often tell in 5 minutes where a new immigrant here is from socially. (And likely geographically)
 You are going to a economically depressed area in comparison to your own.
 In your own country are there not areas you'd be less likely to date from because despite *exceptions*
The general culture of the area has people being a bit more rude and crude than you'd enjoy living with?
(Here it occurs in both country and city settings depending on ones own background how comfortable you area with it.)

This subject ,because its uncomfortable, is always glossed over on here.
 Most men here wouldn't go to a rough inner city area to date but the fsu is fine.if they had half an understanding of just slang snd phrases used, a huge percent of women they meet would likely turn them off in 15 minutes of conversation.
  I see newly married couples here at times where if he understood what she says just in jest in  Russian his jaw would be on the floor and be very uncomfortable.
Obviously in time they'll know each other better and hopefully *love conquers all* will ring true.
  Despite *education* a lot of the fsu is pretty rough and tumble, downright crude. Many men date in areas of thst culture they wouldn't at home,simple because they can't tell the difference there. They havnt lived there long enough to understand the differences of what someone's background is.That can (yes not always ) greatly effect the person's outlook on life and compatibility.That is likely the single biggest reason men continually run into users there. They are dating in a social circle where, if in their in country ,they would certainly find a high percentage of users and that mentality as well.

Ive seen this since 97, lol but its much more clearly visable now .


The old adage of a girl from  poor area  with a heart of gold exists for sure,but the odds are if she was raised in a culture of a *bucket if crabs* she will instead have that life outlook.it's how she was raised, what's socially acceptable to her parents and peers etc etc.

I'm from a poor farm background,think hillbilly redneck and yet a great deal.of Russian culture can truly shock me lol.
So when I see urban professionals from a while color background dating from  the mires and dregs of fsu culture while routinely avoiding  Chicago's south side.. or the trailer parks in small farm towns it makes me shake my head.
Yes they could find more likely comparable segments of fsu society,but the big picture is a lot more of the place is rougher than is assumed by someone not living there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 26, 2017, 10:35:32 AM
Trench print that out and tape it to the fridge door.


As I've learned more of the language, slang ,and social nuances ,over the years,  I can often tell in 5 minutes where a new immigrant here is from socially. (And likely geographically)
 You are going to a economically depressed area in comparison to your own.
 In your own country are there not areas you'd be less likely to date from because despite *exceptions*
The general culture of the area has people being a bit more rude and crude than you'd enjoy living with?
(Here it occurs in both country and city settings depending on ones own background how comfortable you area with it.)

This subject ,because its uncomfortable, is always glossed over on here.
 Most men here wouldn't go to a rough inner city area to date but the fsu is fine.if they had half an understanding of just slang snd phrases used, a huge percent of women they meet would likely turn them off in 15 minutes of conversation.
  I see newly married couples here at times where if he understood what she says just in jest in  Russian his jaw would be on the floor and be very uncomfortable.
Obviously in time they'll know each other better and hopefully *love conquers all* will ring true.
  Despite *education* a lot of the fsu is pretty rough and tumble, downright crude. Many men date in areas of thst culture they wouldn't at home,simple because they can't tell the difference there. They havnt lived there long enough to understand the differences of what someone's background is.That can (yes not always ) greatly effect the person's outlook on life and compatibility.That is likely the single biggest reason men continually run into users there. They are dating in a social circle where, if in their in country ,they would certainly find a high percentage of users and that mentality as well.

Ive seen this since 97, lol but its much more clearly visable now .


The old adage of a girl from  poor area  with a heart of gold exists for sure,but the odds are if she was raised in a culture of a *bucket if crabs* she will instead have that life outlook.it's how she was raised, what's socially acceptable to her parents and peers etc etc.

I'm from a poor farm background,think hillbilly redneck and yet a great deal.of Russian culture can truly shock me lol.
So when I see urban professionals from a while color background dating from  the mires and dregs of fsu culture while routinely avoiding  Chicago's south side.. or the trailer parks in small farm towns it makes me shake my head.
Yes they could find more likely comparable segments of fsu society,but the big picture is a lot more of the place is rougher than is assumed by someone not living there.

You are right Jumper, I have been surprised by the dirt poor background many Ukrainians seem to come from. In UK it is the Council Estates that are the ones to avoid. I'm from a working class background myself but have never lived on a Council Estate, I have been through them and occasionally mixed with people from them, some are nice decent people but there are a lot that are to be avoided and be wary off. Not to say nasty people don't exist elsewhere, I also live near a very wealthy area and well you can imagine how some of those people in the wealthy area tread on others, use others, treat other and be downright nasty in a different way to the Council Estate crowd just to get where they are and stay there. I always believe in treating people decently so I am unlikely to get wealthy enough to live in such an area, not to say they are all like that, some use their brain but may be a bit aloof, some is inheritance or pure luck, etc. Few I think is a case of hard work merely by their own efforts normally it requires employing the work of others to get that wealthy.

I see what you mean, yes the girl has a strong manipulative streak - she think she tells me how it is going to be and can force me into what she wants through just repeating her position and not budging. That is not going to happen, its on my terms or nothing not hers. I know I am looking within a pool of women that come from deprived areas but avoiding that can be like avoiding a huge pool of women. Possibly you may be right and I should go for a girl that has a career or like you say I will keep turning them up. That or I find a girl that really doesn't want to screw things up with me because she is so into me. I will off course be a lot more aware in future of the type of girls like you mention that exist out there. Its not always as easy for WM to tell I think as they don't often know the language and the girls can be a lot cleaner looking than at home and have personal hygiene standards - so in that respect they are a lot better brought up at least, lol. My girl for example doesn't have tattoos, doesn't smoke or like smoke environments, drinks little alcohol, showers twice daily and takes of shoes at the door, appreciates cleanliness. Still it is not looking good with her because of her forceful attitude and stubbornness on subjects which is putting a barrier between us. I am not going to give in as ill be looking for a guy if possible to switch to during the course of the holiday - she's a pretty girl and I can image many a young buck having a crack at her that are even within spitting range of her. I'm not going to be used like that and let some guy have her who can't be arsed to do the leg work himself and go over there for his convenience.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 26, 2017, 11:10:33 AM
Jeez, So now our Trench is a flipping snob ...   :(

It was Margaret Thatcher's offer to allow 'Council House' folk to own their houses that created the Tory Middle Class and kept Labour out of power for over a decade - allowing her to dismantle Union power

My first wife was a Council House lass .. because her Dad, got her Mum up the duff and cleared off abroad ..   Much as there are some regrets I have about marrying her - her being some of the things you describe - as were many of her friends - who have gone on from their non-too proud backgrounds to great things..

Where you born with your foot in your gob ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 26, 2017, 12:34:07 PM
I'm not sure I would think of someone owning their council house as middle class Moby. Many did vote for Thatcher as a result but to many in UK a council estate is still a down market area regardless if the council house is privately owned. Everyone in the UK knows that there are a certain sub type of people in the UK known as scrotes. They are basically trouble making types often from the council estates. These are the type to avoid in the UK. I was looking over a UK landlord forum not long ago. Some crazy woman from Australia who had recently moved to UK got the idea into her head that buying terraced housing in Liverpool was a good idea in order to rent out, lol. She was completely oblivious to the type of residents she would be able to rent out to (scrotes) who of course would not have paid her any rent at all and it would take her months to evict them. Respondents were literally screaming at her not to attempt to do this it was such a bad idea but of course she had no idea as she was from out of the country. I imagine the same is true of me and Ukraine as one Krimster allured to many in the poor areas are after anything they can get their hands on however they can.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on July 26, 2017, 01:32:39 PM
Why are you concerned about other men taking a crack at her?
  Women are hit on all the time in the fsu or in western culture.
Accept it, as  that's a given.
 
  Not once in my life have I worried about such.  I'm either the man she truly wants to be with, or I'm not.
No point in fretting it.

Let me ask you something,
How often do you sees a confident cavalier guy lacking female attention?

How often do you see a man lacking self confidence, being a nervous , and self protective, naive  type lacking female attention?

Relative wealth has little to do with it generally.

Anyway, it is just something to consider.


 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 26, 2017, 02:40:12 PM
Why are you concerned about other men taking a crack at her?
  Women are hit on all the time in the fsu or in western culture.
Accept it, as  that's a given.
 
  Not once in my life have I worried about such.  I'm either the man she truly wants to be with, or I'm not.
No point in fretting it.

Let me ask you something,
How often do you sees a confident cavalier guy lacking female attention?

How often do you see a man lacking self confidence, being a nervous , and self protective, naive  type lacking female attention?

Relative wealth has little to do with it generally.

Anyway, it is just something to consider.

Too true Jumper but it's kind of set the sort of person you are its not really a choice otherwise we would all be choosing the latter. I can be confident on many things though overall as a character trait it probably doesn't show.

Well I think I've worked out what's happening I think she doesn't want me visiting as she doesn't want to mess her reputation up for getting with local guys in future if it doesnt work out with foriegners if word gets out that she's been slutting around with foriegn guys. I think she's just after a foreign guy for immigration purposes she'll leave guy thereafter. I think I need a girl that is more committed to me than she seemed of recent.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 26, 2017, 03:35:13 PM
I'm not sure I would think of someone owning their council house as middle class Moby.

Seeing as some ex-council houses are now worth more than a million Pounds and their owners could sell up and buy a luxury 5 five house in Gloucestershire and have 40 percent left-over - I know different ...

Many did vote for Thatcher as a result but to many in UK a council estate is still a down market area regardless if the council house is privately owned.

Especially folk with no right to look down their noses...

Everyone in the UK knows that there are a certain sub type of people in the UK known as scrotes.

''Everyone?'
 1/ Never heard of the (derogatory?) term before !
 2/ I long, long, long time ago stopped judging books by covers - realising the folly of such thoughts..

They are basically trouble making types often from the council estates. These are the type to avoid in the UK. I was looking over a UK landlord forum not long ago. Some crazy woman from Australia who had recently moved to UK got the idea into her head that buying terraced housing in Liverpool was a good idea in order to rent out, lol. She was completely oblivious to the type of residents she would be able to rent out to (scrotes) who of course would not have paid her any rent at all and it would take her months to evict them. Respondents were literally screaming at her not to attempt to do this it was such a bad idea but of course she had no idea as she was from out of the country. I imagine the same is true of me and Ukraine as one Krimster allured to many in the poor areas are after anything they can get their hands on however they can.

You really must be an avid Daily Mail or Sun reader ... You post the same sort of guff that appeals to the sort of reader they attract. They'll mostly believe anything.

Plenty of private landlords / housing associations rent out to families in less attractive neighbourhoods in Liverpool and get paid by the state.   

As, ever - you find one example of 'bad' and use it to fit your glass half full life and mistrust of people.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 26, 2017, 04:30:40 PM
They used to be ever since Universal Credit was introduced they can no longer be paid by the state. Money gets paid direct to recipients like it used to way back. So are they goin to pass on money within that for their housing costs? In many cases hell no, particularly as they ate getting less than before under the old system.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 27, 2017, 02:05:23 AM
They used to be ever since Universal Credit was introduced they can no longer be paid by the state. Money gets paid direct to recipients like it used to way back. So are they goin to pass on money within that for their housing costs? In many cases hell no, particularly as they ate getting less than before under the old system.

Oh Dear Trenchcoat, when WILL you learn to read up on such stuff ?

Those who cannot be trusted to pay state funded private rents can have their rent paid directly... They need only be a month behind - have  a bad record or request such an arrangement

Two months arrears ? The Landlord can apply for the payments for the housing part of Universal Credit to be paid directly

http://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/universal_credit_housing_costs/when_universal_credit_can_be_paid_direct_to_a_landlord (http://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/universal_credit_housing_costs/when_universal_credit_can_be_paid_direct_to_a_landlord)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 27, 2017, 03:32:24 AM
...Everyone in the UK knows that there are a certain sub type of people in the UK known as scrotes. They are basically trouble making types often from the council estates. These are the type to avoid in the UK.

''Everyone?'
 1/ Never heard of the (derogatory?) term before !

You're slipping, Moby!  I've known that term for years - although usually spelt "scroats."
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 28, 2017, 08:09:49 AM
You're slipping, Moby!  I've known that term for years - although usually spelt "scroats."

Hardly 'slipping' - I clearly don't move in the company who classify others in such a derogatory fashion - of that I'm proud - if that's 'ignorance' ;) !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 28, 2017, 09:33:30 PM
Hardly 'slipping' - I clearly don't move in the company who classify others in such a derogatory fashion - of that I'm proud - if that's 'ignorance' ;) !

There are many, MANY word in the English language which I do not use - and certainly many of those are derogatory.  However, that doesn't mean I haven't heard, or heard of, them.

As for "scroats/scrotes," I would hazard a guess that it is derived from "scrotum," and may therefore (at least originally) have been referring to someone's balls (or lack thereof).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 28, 2017, 10:19:12 PM

As for "scroats/scrotes," I would hazard a guess that it is derived from "scrotum," and may therefore (at least originally) have been referring to someone's balls (or lack thereof).

Think it may be time for Sandro, but I seem to remember some Latin 'thief' connection ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on July 29, 2017, 06:43:53 AM
The Oxford Dictionary says:
Quote
Scrote
British informal: A contemptible person.
Origin: 1970s: from scrotum.

The Latin word for thief is fur, furis hence the Italian furto (theft).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 30, 2017, 02:18:22 PM
As I've learned more of the language, slang ,and social nuances ,over the years,  I can often tell in 5 minutes where a new immigrant here is from socially. (And likely geographically)
 You are going to a economically depressed area in comparison to your own.
 In your own country are there not areas you'd be less likely to date from because despite *exceptions*
The general culture of the area has people being a bit more rude and crude than you'd enjoy living with?
(Here it occurs in both country and city settings depending on ones own background how comfortable you area with it.)

This subject ,because its uncomfortable, is always glossed over on here.
 Most men here wouldn't go to a rough inner city area to date but the fsu is fine.if they had half an understanding of just slang snd phrases used, a huge percent of women they meet would likely turn them off in 15 minutes of conversation.
  I see newly married couples here at times where if he understood what she says just in jest in  Russian his jaw would be on the floor and be very uncomfortable.
Obviously in time they'll know each other better and hopefully *love conquers all* will ring true.
  Despite *education* a lot of the fsu is pretty rough and tumble, downright crude. Many men date in areas of thst culture they wouldn't at home,simple because they can't tell the difference there. They havnt lived there long enough to understand the differences of what someone's background is.That can (yes not always ) greatly effect the person's outlook on life and compatibility.That is likely the single biggest reason men continually run into users there. They are dating in a social circle where, if in their in country ,they would certainly find a high percentage of users and that mentality as well.

Ive seen this since 97, lol but its much more clearly visable now .


The old adage of a girl from  poor area  with a heart of gold exists for sure,but the odds are if she was raised in a culture of a *bucket if crabs* she will instead have that life outlook.it's how she was raised, what's socially acceptable to her parents and peers etc etc.

I'm from a poor farm background,think hillbilly redneck and yet a great deal.of Russian culture can truly shock me lol.
So when I see urban professionals from a while color background dating from  the mires and dregs of fsu culture while routinely avoiding  Chicago's south side.. or the trailer parks in small farm towns it makes me shake my head.
Yes they could find more likely comparable segments of fsu society,but the big picture is a lot more of the place is rougher than is assumed by someone not living there.


Hmm.

Soviets are all from the same class - the working class.  The educated classes were mostly destroyed, and those that weren't were persecuted and lived in poverty.  So, most everyone now is from that "working class".

I haven't noticed much difference in how members of the former working class speak.  I do recall watching a documentary on Galina Brezhnev's life, and she was exceptionally vulgar, using language only sailors would use.

I think, if one wants a sort of "fast and loose" rule to delineate potential partners, look at whether a woman wants a family life. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 30, 2017, 06:59:22 PM
The Oxford Dictionary says:
The Latin word for thief is fur, furis hence the Italian furto (theft).




Thank you
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 01, 2017, 04:01:28 AM

Hmm.

Soviets are all from the same class - the working class.  The educated classes were mostly destroyed, and those that weren't were persecuted and lived in poverty.  So, most everyone now is from that "working class".

I haven't noticed much difference in how members of the former working class speak.  I do recall watching a documentary on Galina Brezhnev's life, and she was exceptionally vulgar, using language only sailors would use.

I think, if one wants a sort of "fast and loose" rule to delineate potential partners, look at whether a woman wants a family life.

That's interesting stuff Boethius. I used to study History a fair bit back in the day and twentieth century history was one of my favourite periods. Particularly on Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, etc. So it is interesting to hear you that most everyone is still essentially working class even if they are have gained some wealth, decent job, etc. Would stand to reason I guess, but I wondered if people there had formed a new middle or upper class over time with associated change in social etiquette.

So that would mean your essentially working class to then Beothius? ;D Despite your well paid job.

So when you refer to certain sections of society using the 'Real Man' term does that not apply to most all Ukrainians/Russians since they are all working class? or perhaps just those that live in the concrete tenement blocks?

Which is where my girl comes from the concrete tenement blocks. When she speaks in English at least she is not at all vulgar, I don't get the impression she normally would be but who knows maybe when speaking Russian/in her home neighbourhood. If anything when with her she seems more fussy than I about etiquette, taking shoes off when walking inside apartment/hotel, personal grooming (I do more of this when with her than usual of course ;) )     
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2017, 08:26:08 AM
Working class=anyone who was not part of the middle class or nobility before the Revolution.  It doesn't have the same meaning as in the West.  It is also a mentality.


I have seen their new Soviet "elite", who became the "elite" of post Soviet society, and most of them are boors when it comes to social manners.


Every Soviet takes their shoes off when they enter a home.  I think it's a throwback to coming from rural backgrounds.  Most people do so where I live as well.  Most FSU individuals, other than drunkards, are well groomed.  In school every morning, their ears and nails were inspected, as was the cleanliness of their school uniforms.


The "real man" you heard is only used for manipulation.  Or, as the better half would say, "by sluts and prostitutes".



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 01, 2017, 09:59:53 AM
The "real man" you heard is only used for manipulation.  Or, as the better half would say, "by sluts and prostitutes".

I remember the real man jokes of the 1970's and 1980's

How many real men does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, real men aren't afraid of the dark.

What does a real man do to satisfy a woman during sex?
Nothing real men don't care.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2017, 07:56:07 PM
I don't remember those.  I've explained, use of the term has a completely different meaning in Russian.  When it is used as "a real man would buy me XXX/show up when I demand it, notwithstanding your own schedule/etc.", it's manipulation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 01, 2017, 09:45:17 PM
I don't remember those.  I've explained, use of the term has a completely different meaning in Russian.  When it is used as "a real man would buy me XXX/show up when I demand it, notwithstanding your own schedule/etc.", it's manipulation.

Hmmnn, that reminds me last year the second girl I met said that 'a real man would travel to meet her in her home city of Nikolaev' Which I did. Interesting to see the place but travelling out to these places takes time and effort. Visiting girls home city is no doubt best but should have gone with adequate back up plan and time allowance if it did not work out, which it did not - there was just no chemistry there. She seemed straight up enough, even used public transport to get home after date.

I can see it can be used for manipulation Boethius but is it necessarily always meant in a bad deceitful way or just sometimes a playful way, just to try and win an argument with?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2017, 09:52:59 PM
I'm basing this on:


a)  being a woman; and
b)  knowing the culture.

It's not something said in sincerity, unless as I described earlier (ETA, here  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22008.msg464506#msg464506 ).


How it was used with you was to get you to jump through hoops.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 01, 2017, 09:56:15 PM
It doesn't take much to Google "real man", a website name and look at the profiles to see how today's FSU women define "Real Man". The profiles at Bride.ru are written by the women in the profiles, not some agency employee. Yes, I can agree some women use the term to get their way from men but most women define it as something good. I could list many more profiles but I don't have the time. People here can do their own homework. We don't need to speculate anymore.

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/931/931823P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/1014/1014943P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/975/975909P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/930/930793P7.html
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 01, 2017, 10:19:35 PM
There are several levels of working class in the west.
Some you'd be comfortable with beo, some you likely wouldn't.

The same is true in the fsu.
Yes I understand the meaning of the term from soviet times and before, I was
pointing out there is a level of pretty rough characters that many westerners can relate to in  their culture .
It's areas they generally wouldn't go much less date.
Good luck with the typical western guy with zero language skills, and no idea of slang to discern that in their interview /date pattern many use.
Heck that very method of lpoking attracts from the shady crowd mostly to begin with.

I'm not knocking anyone,or any social level, I just shake me head at where and whom guys will date there,when no way would they do so at home.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2017, 10:21:05 PM
But, but, but, LOOK at her.

I witnessed the "elite" licking plates at dinner parties I was compelled to attend.  The better half, whose grandmother used to put books under his arms when he was eating, to teach him how far your elbows can protrude when dining, was appalled, but not surprised. 

I think one should look at attitudes.  If the person has a good heart, the rest can be learned.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2017, 12:11:29 AM
But, but, but, LOOK at her.

I witnessed the "elite" licking plates at dinner parties I was compelled to attend.  The better half, whose grandmother used to put books under his arms when he was eating, to teach him how far your elbows can protrude when dining, was appalled, but not surprised. 

I think one should look at attitudes.  If the person has a good heart, the rest can be learned.

Well she certainly never licked her plate, her manners seemed pretty good. Tough of course she rarely finished a meal in its entirety but then neither did I that much to actually get to the bottom of the plate to lick, lol. I of course would never do this. In fact she virtually left one meal she ordered that kind of peed me off a bit as it was just wasting my money needlessly.

Plus the name of this topic has changed to about me, I don't know why? :-\
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2017, 12:17:02 AM
It doesn't take much to Google "real man", a website name and look at the profiles to see how today's FSU women define "Real Man". The profiles at Bride.ru are written by the women in the profiles, not some agency employee. Yes, I can agree some women use the term to get their way from men but most women define it as something good. I could list many more profiles but I don't have the time. People here can do their own homework. We don't need to speculate anymore.

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/931/931823P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/1014/1014943P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/975/975909P1.html

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/930/930793P7.html

I agree, I saw a fair few profile on Mamba a while back where girl said she wanted a 'Real Man' - I was curious as to what this meant back then so brought it up on her. Someone suggested they wanted a man that could provide whatever for them - at the extreme a Mafia type of guy - i.e it dint matter how he got the money so long as he got it.

I don't doubt you Boethius when you say it has a lot to do with manipulation. Though I wonder why girl on dating site would put it as if guy knew that was what it was about it would instantly rule her out before he even got to know her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 02, 2017, 01:12:41 AM
Because the way they are using it in profiles is different.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2017, 10:36:40 AM
Because the way they are using it in profiles is different.

How is it different?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 02, 2017, 11:35:32 AM
What the ads likely refer to is a man of action.  Not a walking wallet.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2017, 12:19:55 PM
What the ads likely refer to is a man of action.  Not a walking wallet.

Oh I see, that's kind of what I thought when I first raised it but was not sure. I saw on a you tube video that this Russian women said that FSW often want a 'man on a mission' that is actively going out to build a better life than a guy that just does the usual stint and job done. That is fine by me as I kind of fit the man on a mission description :D. Thanks I can see now the difference between the two of how it is used. To be honest though I was quite young I'm sure it used to be used a little like that here in the west back in the 80s maybe US Hilly wood films more so, i.E 1980s macho culture. Today though I don't think anyone western person would use it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 02, 2017, 06:00:38 PM

Trench, the definition of a real man in the FSU is a good thing. It's a good thing if a lady labels you a real man. Because the definition of a real man is a good thing, insincere women use it to manipulate their men. They may say "a real man would take his woman to a 5 star restaurant on a first date". Some men fail to correct those ladies and end up taking them to vacations, 5 star restaurants and shopping sprees. Even if you had a woman or read about women using the term real man to manipulate men or you, don't believe those insincere women get to define "real man".
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 02, 2017, 07:28:45 PM
Actions mean everything,  words mean very little.
More substance,less talk.
When they are saying real man in some profile (if they indeed wrote it)its a matter of character, integrity, and doing what a man says he will do.
Not much different than a general  western diffinition of the term?

If used to manipulate, it's pretty pathetic behaviour to any *cough* real man.
As a *real woman* wouldn't dream of doing such ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 05:34:12 AM
Trench, the definition of a real man in the FSU is a good thing. It's a good thing if a lady labels you a real man. Because the definition of a real man is a good thing, insincere women use it to manipulate their men. They may say "a real man would take his woman to a 5 star restaurant on a first date". Some men fail to correct those ladies and end up taking them to vacations, 5 star restaurants and shopping sprees. Even if you had a woman or read about women using the term real man to manipulate men or you, don't believe those insincere women get to define "real man".

Got you there Billy, I think your bang on. If she calls you a real man its good, if she questions that your a real man its bad.

And yes your again right those women are better corrected than satisfying whet they want. The relationship actually seems to suffer if you go along with what they want anyway. Worst case scenario there is not a real relationship there at all and better off not racking up the expenses bill as there won't be a real relationship after expenses have been racked up either. Just the expenses bill will remain not the girl (unless she holds on hoping for more).

That is what I have learned from it is that it is a pointless endevour do it. Either not give into girl that is trying to manipulate or get shot of her. Many girls are into clothes shopping but even trying to be reasonable or modest in satisfying girl does not seem to help in any way, they always expect more and once you begin she won't let up. I've learned this now and plan on no repeat. I think the girl I'm with is into me but she just seems to have this affliction to try and manipulate me when it comes to clothes shopping. Better to work out a way she can buy with her own money once together I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2017, 05:57:16 AM
Got you there Billy, I think your bang on. If she calls you a real man its good, if she questions that your a real man its bad.



Within reason ... which when 'extreme' becomes  manipulation
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 06:22:35 AM
Within reason ... which when 'extreme' becomes  manipulation

You mean if she questions you are a real mean, a little mild suggestion that 'a real man...' but if she takes it too heavy on it then its manipulation?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2017, 06:30:18 AM
You mean if she questions you are a real mean, a little mild suggestion that 'a real man...' but if she takes it too heavy on it then its manipulation?

I mean if you think it's  taking the mick - it is..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 06:30:41 AM
Boethius, I also have a question on the character of FSW. My one seems particularly implacable and stubborn. She keeps returning to the 'I visit you then you visit me' - she won't budge from this nor except that I visit her first, she just keeps repeating this. She states she will not see me if I try and visit her first. She often seems to come across as sincere and genuine but I don't like this. I know we have already discussed reasons why she may not want a foreigner visiting her. She hasn't mentioned any of this nor really commented when I brought it up, so I am not so sure that is why. For me though it seems something I don't want to do, to have her visit me first without first visiting her. Her not budging in her position just makes me wonder why and even more if its really not a good idea for her to come here. Either way of course the cost is on me.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2017, 06:34:13 AM
May be, she is checking you are serious and not a 'sex tourist' ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 06:42:54 AM
I mean if you think it's  taking the mick - it is..

Oh I see, I think she was using it more to explain her position, i.e she does not get money to by much in the way of clothes from her retail job. She doesn't say it a lot or regularly it just came up occasionally and briefly when having an discussion/argument over this. For me it was her shopping that started to take the mick a bit, she needs this, then that and even started on some stuff what I had already bought her an item off. For example she bought sandals for the beach (brand name one) however she found they hurt her feet when walking a bit in them - so she wanted me to buy her some more sandals (also brand name ones). At that stage I was like, this is taking the p*ss, that she expects me to pay out more because of her mistake. I told her I am not going around buying her everything twice, it ridiculous. So not she did not get more sandals. She seems to come up with a load of reasons she needs this or that. I mean she may be in a low paid job but I don't see why I should immediately come responsible for her clothing situation. She even refused to accept talk of a limit or that her clothing situation is now sorted arguing she is a girl so that what being a girl is about. Well she kind of has a child like wanting for this or that about her which for a girl in her mid twenties is a bit unusual I would have thought. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 06:45:58 AM
May be, she is checking you are serious and not a 'sex tourist' ?

Possibility I guess, we have been intimate a fair bit but she might feel that I am using her for sex like I feel that she uses me for clothes buying. I sometimes wonder if its a kind of pay back from her although she seems to get quite into the intimate side of things but who knows. She has accused me of having a wife in UK several times over messaging so maybe that is it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 03, 2017, 07:33:52 AM
Trench -- I have a few question for you -- that given the level of whingeing you have made over money spent--  exactly how much have you spent

eg    1/  on meals for the girl/s you have met?Yours and her meals?
1.5 / was there any alcohol? What was the cost? Yours & hers?

2/ You have gone on and on about a girl/s spending spree --exactly what did you buy?
How much was each item?

I note --the forum at large has sided with you over this --without the above questions actually being answered -- so  --given your noted frugality and concern for being scammed --I am sure you can answer the questions I have asked.

In no case you have mentioned -- would that have ruled a girl out  for me -- it would be totally dependant on all the circumstances.

Also --I should ask--you said you went on vacation -- what was accommodation cost? What other costs were involved in that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 03, 2017, 07:53:24 AM
  You've already visited her.
If her character is generally stubborn, intractable,  and as a twenty something overly concerned with clothes and *brands*
She is far more typical  than not.


  Nothing wrong with that, it's simply her place, or stage, in life at this time and what matters to her now.
That may change, it may not.
  Why you'd be interested , is up to you,and what you need to work out.
  If she was a local girl,same age, same stage or interests in life, same character traits (good or bad) would you be into dating her and marriage?

Noone here knows her or you.You already know the answers,  we can't possibly know them.

Me? I can only go by what you post, If single, i wouldn't date a local girl thst age with a ' tude , ( I'm generous but also equally allergic to a sense of entitlement from someone)
or a still not matured life out look .
Again nothing wrong with where someone is at in life or what they value.

Most folks want a partner in life,one who wants to share the building of a life together, and value roughly the same things at the same stages in life.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 03, 2017, 09:01:07 AM
Got you there Billy, I think your bang on. If she calls you a real man its good, if she questions that your a real man its bad.


It's not always a bad thing if a woman sys your traits as a real man are lacking.  You have to evaluate the circumstances when she says this and if there is merit to what she's saying.   She may be trying to help you grow. If you are lacking in any way of becoming a real man you need to make adjustments.  Usually in the dating phase women won't point out your flaws. And they will let you behave the way you want so that you can continue to expose your flaws. This helps them make a determination whether to keep you or dump you. You should continue to evaluate the ladies that you date to make determinations on them too. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 03, 2017, 10:33:32 AM
Boethius, I also have a question on the character of FSW. My one seems particularly implacable and stubborn. She keeps returning to the 'I visit you then you visit me' - she won't budge from this nor except that I visit her first, she just keeps repeating this.

How many times have you said that you are moving on when clearly you aren't?
I've written before about driving the bus. It's your job to steer things in the right
direction. You've stopped steering or even operating the pedals long ago.

There are 101 generally accepted theories on the romantic thought processes of
women, unfortunately they are all wrong. Women are beautiful, soft creatures
who smell better, are loving and nurturing. Just accept it. Stop trying to figure
out why women don't act like men and be happy about it.

Just because a woman is hot and/or rode you like a stolen bike doesn't excuse
bad behavior or red flags.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 04:21:10 PM
May be, she is checking you are serious and not a 'sex tourist' ?

Having thought this through more would a sexpat really go to all the trouble & expense of taking her on holiday. I think not, some may do and maybe she might think so but my tendency is to think this is not how many would carry on and surely she would see that. I can't but help think she wants to come over here for a while then hook up with some other bloke. I mean I am going to be out most of the day at work. Do I take the risk? I mean Ok I bear the cost of bringing her over  here which is only so much. Its really more I don't like people using me and taking the pee. I mean I don't want to pay all that money for some other geezers benefit who can't be arsed to go and make the venture himself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 03, 2017, 04:49:03 PM
Yes, sex tourists take women on holiday.  Not every man is as cheap as you.  The issue with a sex tourist is he promises a LTR, and has no intention of entering into one.

If you are that worried about bringing a woman over for some other man, then don't look for a FSUW.  There are zero guarantees in life.

I don't know if Kherson girl could even get a visa to the UK.  However, I know that when I was with my husband, I didn't care where we were, so long as we were together, and he felt the same way.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2017, 09:53:12 PM
Yes, sex tourists take women on holiday.  Not every man is as cheap as you.  The issue with a sex tourist is he promises a LTR, and has no intention of entering into one.

If you are that worried about bringing a woman over for some other man, then don't look for a FSUW.  There are zero guarantees in life.

I don't know if Kherson girl could even get a visa to the UK.  However, I know that when I was with my husband, I didn't care where we were, so long as we were together, and he felt the same way.

Yeah my thoughts exactly, I've mentioned this numerous times and that it would be easier for me to visit her in Kherson first. Over time or if married I could probably do it, but at the moment it's an ordeal I don't need. I think her ardent resistance to me going to Kherson is making me wonder if she is up to something. Like you say it should be a case of you want to be with each other where ever. Other places in Europe have come up as a compromise but no she will only accept seeing me in UK first. Which is why I'm thinking time over I would rather go for a long stay in FSU and do relationship there with a girl for a number of weeks/months and do away with all of this hidden element of it all as I can see even with another girl if I did it as quick fly in's if it wasn't current problem then another similar problem related to not being an everyday presense in the relationship would occur.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2017, 10:22:39 PM
Trench,

Tell 'your' lady that unless there is a history of meetings - a serious relationship - that the chances of a young lass getting a UK tourist visa are zero...

She has to understand that the Brits are looking for serious couples. 

You'll need a few UA stamps and proof of being in UA with her ...

IF she lives in a rented apartment - with Ma and Pa - she is more likely to get a visa if studying at a UK VISA recognised establishment

IF you are serious about her and she you ... show her this is fact..

Get her a UA Bio passport - go with her to get it and make it part of the adventure.

Take her to Poland   - skiing - and get some EU stamps in the new passport  - this is not an easy venture and a short road

If you can't be bothered or worry - she is just going to dump you ... QUIT now

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2017, 12:37:37 AM
Trench,

Tell 'your' lady that unless there is a history of meetings - a serious relationship - that the chances of a young lass getting a UK tourist visa are zero...

She has to understand that the Brits are looking for serious couples. 

You'll need a few UA stamps and proof of being in UA with her ...

IF she lives in a rented apartment - with Ma and Pa - she is more likely to get a visa if studying at a UK VISA recognised establishment

IF you are serious about her and she you ... show her this is fact..

Get her a UA Bio passport - go with her to get it and make it part of the adventure.

Take her to Poland   - skiing - and get some EU stamps in the new passport  - this is not an easy venture and a short road

If you can't be bothered or worry - she is just going to dump you ... QUIT now

Exactly me Mobe, this is what I've been trying to explain to her several times, that the list of documents they ask for is not a case of being able to supply those documents and that's it - they will want to be convinced by what they see in the documents that there is enough money, reason for her to return, depth of our relationship together - how well we know each other and for how long, etc. All she ever responds to any of this is she has looked it up and it will not be a problem. There is just no getting through to her.

She already has a biometric Ukrainian Passport with a stamp from our Cyprus holiday and apparently a stamp from the previous guy she had a relationship with from another EU country - but I only have her say so on this. I have 3 Ukrainian stamps in my passport now although only one set relate to her. I have told her that they may well ask me about where she lives, who with, her job, being with her where she lives - none of which I can answer to any real depth since I do not know as I have never visited where she lives even. I've tried telling her that getting a Visa for UK is a lot harder than for other EU countries but again she says its no problem, lol.

She shares a rented apartment with her brother, she works in a retail job and she does not even have a bank account. Some of her situation can be got around but I think her job, living situation will have border control alarm bells ringing. Particularly if she wants to stay here a while or give her job up while she is here.

Her father apparently works in Poland though I very much doubt legally.

I just see it as easier if I visit her in Kherson and can't understand why she is so obstinate and refuses to accept the problems there would be in trying to get her a visa at the moment. I've tried explaining how exceptionally difficult UK border control can be in granting a visa but she won't take notice.

So her determination to try and push through for a UK visa set against her unwillingness for me to travel to Kherson to see her I just find concerning.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2017, 12:46:32 AM
If she's that stubborn, just apply for a visa and let it be rejected.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2017, 09:40:33 AM
Trench, sounds like she's been to another European country and did some other traveling. She said it's no problem for her to get a visa. All your reasoning  it's difficult to get a visa to your country sounds like an excuse to her.  I agree with Bo.  Give it a shot. And if she gets rejected as you predicted she will trust your opinion more  in the future.  You need to earn some points in the respect department and this is your chance 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2017, 10:38:25 AM
Trench, sounds like she's been to another European country and did some other traveling. She said it's no problem for her to get a visa. All your reasoning  it's difficult to get a visa to your country sounds like an excuse to her.  I agree with Bo. Give it a shot. And if she gets rejected as you predicted she will trust your opinion more  in the future.  You need to earn some points in the respect department and this is your chance

Love your style Billy :D Shows your pretty savvy in knowing how to deal with people. I need more skills yours, I may well give this a try ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 04, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Yes, sex tourists take women on holiday.  Not every man is as cheap as you.  The issue with a sex tourist is he promises a LTR, and has no intention of entering into one.

I think most sex tourists travel to meet prostitutes or sex for pay
Some travel to places to have sex with underage or "appearing"
to be underage girls.

But you are correct some men misrepresent themselves and their
motives and it makes it more difficult for those with sincere
intentions.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 04, 2017, 02:52:43 PM
 Pfffft.
Justifying her stubbornness.
Sure you can play it to your advantage some, and manipulate her  hard headedness some, but dear Lord why on earth would you want to?


She actually has no sound reasons not to meet you in Ukraine. You know this.
She may not want to.meet in her city for many reasons, but  any of them that might be understandable, are also  pretty easy to work around if she actually wanted to.

The not so good reasons arnt.

This is a girl you've met , yet won't suggest or allow meeting you in her home city, or in kiev, or Paris etc.
Only in uk.

Ok she doesn't really want to see you, it's that simple.
Also,
If she's that stubborn and demanding after only one meeting , boy you are in for a time filled with such crapola.

I'm sure you're smart enough to manipulate her demands, much like billy suggested you can even come out looking good about it.

Why you would want to is the burning question, as there are a million girls like her that won't be so difficult.
You are setting yourself up for a relationship you have to dance, teach, manipulate , endlessly compromise.
Sorry to be harsh but find someone more compatable , the first TEN meetings should be relaxing  fun times together, no major drama or BS . They will be ,if the couple is meant for each other.


The rest of this is justification of both poor behaviour and manipulation.

After already meeting her, if no visas an issue, and  she said she could come see you in the UK , but you refused and insisted you had to meet her only in kherson, no other location, how do you think that would go down?:lol:

1.you would be quite unreasonable demanding that, and not truly into her.
2.she'd dump you in 2 seconds.

Flipping it around and jumping thru her hoops, has put you in beat down hubby training early!!!! After just one visit.
Imagine your life in 5 years.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2017, 03:54:28 PM
She actually has no sound reasons not to meet you in Ukraine.


I agree with this but it seems Trench wants to proceed with the woman so for them to meet, he has to attempt to get a visa for her to come to the UK.  When she gets rejected for the visa, she should agree to meet him in Ukraine. I suspect her 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc... backup plans to meet are outside Ukraine too. Trench needs to decide when to when to give up on this woman.

If I were dating a woman overseas, I'd dictate where we'd meet. If she doesn't like it, I'd find someone who'd like my suggestions. I have taken GF's out of their country to meet but only after we become exclusive. When the woman becomes the wife, she I will share control on where we spend our vacation money.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2017, 04:41:27 PM
Pfffft.
Justifying her stubbornness.
Sure you can play it to your advantage some, and manipulate her  hard headedness some, but dear Lord why on earth would you want to?


She actually has no sound reasons not to meet you in Ukraine. You know this.
She may not want to.meet in her city for many reasons, but  any of them that might be understandable, are also  pretty easy to work around if she actually wanted to.

The not so good reasons arnt.

This is a girl you've met , yet won't suggest or allow meeting you in her home city, or in kiev, or Paris etc.
Only in uk.


Ok she doesn't really want to see you, it's that simple.
Also,
If she's that stubborn and demanding after only one meeting , boy you are in for a time filled with such crapola.

I'm sure you're smart enough to manipulate her demands, much like billy suggested you can even come out looking good about it.

Why you would want to is the burning question, as there are a million girls like her that won't be so difficult.
You are setting yourself up for a relationship you have to dance, teach, manipulate , endlessly compromise.
Sorry to be harsh but find someone more compatable , the first TEN meetings should be relaxing  fun times together, no major drama or BS . They will be ,if the couple is meant for each other.


The rest of this is justification of both poor behaviour and manipulation.

After already meeting her, if no visas an issue, and  she said she could come see you in the UK , but you refused and insisted you had to meet her only in kherson, no other location, how do you think that would go down?:lol:

1.you would be quite unreasonable demanding that, and not truly into her.
2.she'd dump you in 2 seconds.

Flipping it around and jumping thru her hoops, has put you in beat down hubby training early!!!! After just one visit.
Imagine your life in 5 years.

Yeah, you and BillyB are right. My concern is that she may not really be into me, at least not that much and just wanting to get into UK. She comes across as sincere & genuine at times like when I question her but many a devious person may be, whether she is devious I'm not really sure. Its her insistence that she comes to the UK that worries me. Quite possibly she may have a very fixated stubborn streak, I really don't think compromise is in her dictionary, lol. To be honest compromise doesn't always please me but sometimes its just means the only viable option rather than nothing at all and in that case logic for me prevails. Making compromise just to meet each other in the middle on everything I am not so much into its too much of a cop out I think.

Still, yes she seems to want to wear the trousers in the relationship and is probably why she is still single (I assume). I get the impression she is single but who knows. The fact that she doesn't want me to meet her in Kherson first is kind of an issue. She may just have a very fixed view on it, she says because I have met her twice on holidays already, but she wanted to meet in Kiev & wanted a beach holiday abroad. For me both made sense at the time but really I should have opted for her home city straight away or nothing. I think she likes to call the shots - she has a degree in management so is perhaps that type. Her avoidance of me visiting her home city makes me wonder what I would find there if I were to see her.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2017, 05:08:08 PM
I agree with this but it seems Trench wants to proceed with the woman so for them to meet, he has to attempt to get a visa for her to come to the UK.  When she gets rejected for the visa, she should agree to meet him in Ukraine. I suspect her 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc... backup plans to meet are outside Ukraine too. Trench needs to decide when to when to give up on this woman.

If I were dating a woman overseas, I'd dictate where we'd meet. If she doesn't like it, I'd find someone who'd like my suggestions. I have taken GF's out of their country to meet but only after we become exclusive. When the woman becomes the wife, she I will share control on where we spend our vacation money.

Essentially I might as well keep her in the frame for the time being, I don't want another re-attempt this year. I want to get myself sorted for a thorough go at it next year rather than get caught in the trap of doing a series of fly ins and not get a good take on the situation and the girl, whoever it may be. If she comes around in that time then all may be good. She's backtracked of recent I thought she was going to compromise, though yes it looks like were she to compromise elsewhere in EU would be it. She's really got a one track mind though I keep wondering why she does not want me in Kherson - doesn't want to be seen around with an older guy? (I mean no doubt I look a bit older but I'm not really greying, fat or balding or anything) but still. To my mind I can't help but think there is a real big reason fro her not to want to come visit. It could of course be that she's not that into me and wants to now jump quickly to getting in the UK. I just can only think that her determination to get visa for UK is not for my benefit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2017, 06:07:51 PM
If you have no intention to build a relationship with her, drop her.  It's unfair to her.

Gee, she doesn't want you to go to a small city where most everyone is unemployed, dirt poor, and there is one main street, from the train station to the port.  Whatever could she be thinking?

Your paranoia will ensure you will not be successful in this endeavour.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 04, 2017, 08:02:58 PM
Lol! Well there is the *dumpsk factor* Beo brought up, and I dint address.
  Yes a woman knows her city, if it's typical industrial soviet provincial city maybe  quite bored with it,and it may have little to offer.
 That's one of the *understandable reasons* I mentioned above that she might have for wanting to meet elsewhere .

 One of the many work arounds I alluded to, are to meet her there and then go to kiev , carpathian mountains, sea of azof, or somewhere else.
   There is just no great reason to be strongly opposed to that, or to not bring up other compromises if she is into you.

While I agree with Beo that you often come across too paranoid,
IN this case it's a girl you've met twice already,  who is showing no signs of compromise to even Paris.
I mean seriously.Think about that.

 ( I dislike Paris personally, but if my wife wanted to meet there, we would have gone and had a great time)

She (wife)is from a Dumpsk, but there was no issue meeting there or anywhere.
Yes she would prefer to meet in a place a bit more interesting for her and hopefully for me,but location wasn't really important.we discussed all that, the whys and planned accoringly, no problem, no drama.

Relationships should start much smoother.

Also if you feel too old for her, bail.
Either have the full confidence that regardless age you're a great catch and match for her (at whatever her age) or move on.


 Do ,or do not,
There is no try! "Yoda"
:)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2017, 11:24:43 PM
I don't doubt there is the dumpsk factor where she is and I think she is looking to get out of it. She has kind of reflected this in her messages to me. To me though the fact that she is so ardent on UK and nowhere else and her equally ardent stating that she will refuse to see me in Kherson raises alarm bells to me. I mean something must be going on in her life in Kherson she doesn't want me to see apart from it being a dump. Otherwise even if her goal was to get into UK she would say ok you visit Kherson then knowing UK was next on the list and would just be waiting weeks overall. There is the refusal to go to othe locations so I don't know maybe she just wants into UK without having to put up with being with me a lot longer. I know for sure though I'm not going to be used for her to get that if that's her game.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 04, 2017, 11:38:58 PM
I don't doubt there is the dumpsk factor where she is and I think she is looking to get out of it. She has kind of reflected this in her messages to me.


Doesn't matter if her city is a dumpsk. A real man would say "I(Trench) am coming to visit you in Dumpskville", buy the tickets and see how good of a hostess she is while you're in town. Trench, you're still learning about this woman and if she makes things too difficult, you need to move on. Keep in mind, if you're projecting yourself to be a less than desirable catch, women aren't going to bend over backwards to please you. If you are in the top 10% of men, women would be thrilled to be with you and are much less likely to say or do anything to upset you. If you're lower on the totem pole compared to other men, the ladies will shit on you more often.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 05, 2017, 02:26:03 AM
Essentially I might as well keep her in the frame for the time being, I don't want another re-attempt this year.

Just how stupid are you?  Really?  Sure, don't "re-attempt" this year - but don't waste one more second of your existence on this girl.

If you have no intention to build a relationship with her, drop her.  It's unfair to her.

Forget about it being unfair to the girl - it's unfair to us to have to put up with this continuous crap!  Trenchcoat has raised the same half dozen red flags in just about every post concerning this girl (I refuse to call her a woman, because that would imply that she has some maturity), and admits that her behaviour is full of red flags, and yet he STILL fantasizes about her possibly being the future love of his life.

I would get moderated off the board if I posted what I really think, as I'm sure would several others, but his behaviour is beyond insane.  There's just one excuse after another, EVERY DAY, for a girl who exhibits the standard traits of any twenty-something who's just out for the best time that she can have, with the least inconvenience to her real life.  I don't know (or care) if she has a boyfriend or husband back home, or if there's some other reason why she doesn't want Trenchcoat to see her home town, but you wouldn't put up with this from a local girl - why on earth would you do so for someone who lives in another country?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on August 05, 2017, 03:00:38 AM
Just how stupid are you?  Really? Sure, don't "re-attempt" this year - but don't waste one more second of your existence on this girl.

Forget about it being unfair to the girl - it's unfair to us to have to put up with this continuous crap!  Trenchcoat has raised the same half dozen red flags in just about every post concerning this girl (I refuse to call her a woman, because that would imply that she has some maturity), and admits that her behaviour is full of red flags, and yet he STILL fantasizes about her possibly being the future love of his life.

I would get moderated off the board if I posted what I really think, as I'm sure would several others, but his behaviour is beyond insane.  There's just one excuse after another, EVERY DAY, for a girl who exhibits the standard traits of any twenty-something who's just out for the best time that she can have, with the least inconvenience to her real life.  I don't know (or care) if she has a boyfriend or husband back home, or if there's some other reason why she doesn't want Trenchcoat to see her home town, but you wouldn't put up with this from a local girl - why on earth would you do so for someone who lives in another country?

Trenchie was allowed to put his penis in her, so now every time he thinks of her or speaks with her, he gets a full boner and only thinks with the little head.  I have some suspicion this was the first girl ever letting him getting to that part, so no there is no logic involved, only a cheap mind and a full blown boner doing the thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 05, 2017, 07:46:56 AM
full blown boner . . .

Certainly better than partially blown.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 05, 2017, 10:56:31 AM
Essentially I might as well keep her in the frame for the time being,

Attention Newbies, Trench is making a classical mistake read this
post to ensure you don't do the same.



Wrong, wrong, wrong.

You have time, money and emotions tied up with a girl who isn't
the future Mrs Trench, so you rationalize stringing the relationship
along wasting both of your time, primarily because she looks good
and likes a nice pony ride, which I am a fan of as well, who doesn't
enjoy pony rides? 

BUT, you are doing both of yourselves a disservice.

That girl is seeking a future mate and you are keeping her away from
finding him. Likewise there is the future Mrs Trench out there walking
around completely oblivious that you exist. Once you discover that a
girl isn't the future Mrs_____________ (your name here) dump her
immediately and work at trying to find the future Mrs_____________
(your name here)

That's my advice and philosophy about that. You could argue but you
would be wrong.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 10:56:52 AM
JForget about it being unfair to the girl - it's unfair to us to have to put up with this continuous crap!  Trenchcoat has raised the same half dozen red flags in just about every post concerning this girl (I refuse to call her a woman, because that would imply that she has some maturity), and admits that her behaviour is full of red flags, and yet he STILL fantasizes about her possibly being the future love of his life.

I don't know if I'd call them red flags.  I think they just demonstrate a particular mindset. 

The problem with many WM is they look for, even seek "red flags".  Don't go fishing in a poor country.  Then you won't have to worry about red flags.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 05, 2017, 10:57:19 AM
Essentially I might as well keep her in the frame for the time being,

If you have no intention to build a relationship with her, drop her.  It's unfair to her.

Just how stupid are you?  Really?  Sure, don't "re-attempt" this year - but don't waste one more second of your existence on this girl.


Attention Newbies, Trench is making a classical mistake read this
post to ensure you don't do the same.


Advice to Trench who won't follow and for Newbies who might

You have time, money and emotions tied up with a girl who isn't
the future Mrs Trench, so you rationalize stringing the relationship
along wasting both of your time, primarily because she looks good
and likes a nice pony ride, which I am a fan of as well, who doesn't
enjoy pony rides? 

BUT, you are doing both of yourselves a disservice.

That girl is seeking a future mate and you are keeping her away from
finding him. Likewise there is the future Mrs Trench out there walking
around completely oblivious that you exist. Once you discover that a
girl isn't the future Mrs_____________ (your name here) dump her
immediately and work at trying to find the future Mrs_____________
(your name here)

That's my advice and philosophy about that. You could argue but you
would be wrong.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 11:52:32 AM
Most of you don't know how desperate things are in some parts of Ukraine.  The country is now awash in guns.  An acquaintance goes back to her small town in Western Ukraine every year, to visit her children and grandchildren.  She said that now (past two years), she is followed everywhere.  In the past, as someone with access to cash, she was bothered by drunkards and criminals, now, it has stretched to beyond that.

One of our neighbours went to her cousin's wedding in Ukraine.  There were six Canadians there.  The groom held them hostage at gunpoint, and stole their cash and credit cards.  They were being held hostage in a barn.  There was a shoot out with police.  Thankfully, no one was injured and, instead of enjoying his wedding night, the groom was arrested.

Recently, a Ukrainian was arrested in Italy.  He was an officer in the army, and shot an Italian journalist near the front (Ukrainian zone).  The reason?  To steal his camera and related equipment.  A female French journalist was spared because she didn't have anything to steal.  The Italians investigated, as the Ukrainian army didn't care.  Italy tried to have him extradited but again, Ukraine didn't care.  So, Italian investigators lured him to Italy.  This just demonstrates the cynicism in Ukraine today.  Life there is cheap.

Kherson is a small city not far from the war zone.  It was a dump during Soviet times, and no doubt is a dump now.  There are no jobs.  There is one long main street.  Go blocks from the city, and goats and chickens are running around.  So, a girl brings a foreigner and shows him around.  He leaves, and she still has to deal with all of those who believe she has money/goods.  Open season on her, including from the police.  She doesn't want to be somewhere where she has to worry about who comes to her door in the middle of the night.  From this perspective, asking to see England, and a "normal" life, makes sense.  Trench, you go home.  She stays there.

Our family has had shakedowns in the past because of receiving money.  This was before WU and moneygram, when Meest delivered money to the door, and it was never more than $200.  Now, at the relatives' request, we send only very small amounts, as we've been told "you don't know who will follow you home".  And this is in Kyiv, not some small city near some current Ukrainian hotspots.

Bigger cities are much safer, and foreigners, generally, are safe because they are a source of revenue.  But they are not immune, as the stories above demonstrate.

Trench, your paranoia won't end.  It will only grow.  You probably have the same paranoia with WW. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 05, 2017, 12:46:08 PM
Certainly better than partially blown.

For those of you who are single and don't know what partially
blown is, all you need is a beautiful wife and a two year old
child to find out.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 01:33:20 PM
I don't know if I'd call them red flags.  I think they just demonstrate a particular mindset. 

The problem with many WM is they look for, even seek "red flags".  Don't go fishing in a poor country.  Then you won't have to worry about red flags.

We don't have a choice, if we could get women in our home country (or at least one we wanted) or even a reasonably wealthy country we would be doing it. Russia for example may be a better bet though its only a bit more prosperous than Ukraine and that probably depends if you are in one of the big touristy cities as well. There are few easy choices in life so even fishing in a poor country can reap better rewards than trying at home. Its just a case of getting stuck in, learning along the way and doing what you can I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 01:38:44 PM
I'm calling BS on not having a choice.  Whenever I see that, I know a man is either lying (largely to himself) or delusional.  So, which is it?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 01:45:13 PM

Attention Newbies, Trench is making a classical mistake read this
post to ensure you don't do the same.


Advice to Trench who won't follow and for Newbies who might

You have time, money and emotions tied up with a girl who isn't
the future Mrs Trench, so you rationalize stringing the relationship
along wasting both of your time, primarily because she looks good
and likes a nice pony ride, which I am a fan of as well, who doesn't
enjoy pony rides? 

BUT, you are doing both of yourselves a disservice.

That girl is seeking a future mate and you are keeping her away from
finding him. Likewise there is the future Mrs Trench out there walking
around completely oblivious that you exist. Once you discover that a
girl isn't the future Mrs_____________ (your name here) dump her
immediately and work at trying to find the future Mrs_____________
(your name here)

That's my advice and philosophy about that. You could argue but you
would be wrong.

Generally I agree, though it is not the case here, guys wanting just sex & girls out to scam waste each others time all the time when they could be finding Mr or Mrs Right. I care about the girl and if she made some compromise then things could work out. I did see her as a Mrs Trench but there is this obstacle she has brought into the relationship. She may not be sincere and I will no doubt find that out if so. From my point of view I need to replenish money, sort out my life in terms of making sure I can offer a girl a good level of stability/provide for her. I also want to approach this venture with a new method, for me the messaging girls from a distance over Skype, etc is just not for me. I don't want to waste endless hours of my precious time writing messages to women that might be a fruitless cause to me I see it as a mugs game. I want to be down there on the street in girls home city calling them up there and then. Then as soon as I find one get into a domestic situation with her and have a 'real relationship'. Rather than wondering if a girl just put on an act for a week to get what she can out of me. Whether my girl did that I don't know, I do know when I will be back in the game roughly if she doesn't come around. If her time is being wasted as a result then its her fault for not having sincere intentions in the first place.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 01:52:40 PM
If her time is being wasted as a result then its her fault for not having sincere intentions in the first place.


You don't know if she doesn't have sincere intentions.  You're guessing at that.  So, Bill is right.


Tell her that you doubt her sincerity because she doesn't want you to go to Kherson.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 02:01:27 PM
Most of you don't know how desperate things are in some parts of Ukraine.  The country is now awash in guns.  An acquaintance goes back to her small town in Western Ukraine every year, to visit her children and grandchildren.  She said that now (past two years), she is followed everywhere.  In the past, as someone with access to cash, she was bothered by drunkards and criminals, now, it has stretched to beyond that.

One of our neighbours went to her cousin's wedding in Ukraine.  There were six Canadians there.  The groom held them hostage at gunpoint, and stole their cash and credit cards.  They were being held hostage in a barn.  There was a shoot out with police.  Thankfully, no one was injured and, instead of enjoying his wedding night, the groom was arrested.

Recently, a Ukrainian was arrested in Italy.  He was an officer in the army, and shot an Italian journalist near the front (Ukrainian zone).  The reason?  To steal his camera and related equipment.  A female French journalist was spared because she didn't have anything to steal.  The Italians investigated, as the Ukrainian army didn't care.  Italy tried to have him extradited but again, Ukraine didn't care.  So, Italian investigators lured him to Italy.  This just demonstrates the cynicism in Ukraine today.  Life there is cheap.

Kherson is a small city not far from the war zone.  It was a dump during Soviet times, and no doubt is a dump now.  There are no jobs.  There is one long main street.  Go blocks from the city, and goats and chickens are running around.  So, a girl brings a foreigner and shows him around.  He leaves, and she still has to deal with all of those who believe she has money/goods.  Open season on her, including from the police.  She doesn't want to be somewhere where she has to worry about who comes to her door in the middle of the night.  From this perspective, asking to see England, and a "normal" life, makes sense.  Trench, you go home.  She stays there.

Our family has had shakedowns in the past because of receiving money.  This was before WU and moneygram, when Meest delivered money to the door, and it was never more than $200.  Now, at the relatives' request, we send only very small amounts, as we've been told "you don't know who will follow you home".  And this is in Kyiv, not some small city near some current Ukrainian hotspots.

Bigger cities are much safer, and foreigners, generally, are safe because they are a source of revenue.  But they are not immune, as the stories above demonstrate.

Trench, your paranoia won't end.  It will only grow.  You probably have the same paranoia with WW.

Thank you for that Boethius, above stories are truly shocking and I often find myself underestimating how dirt poor and poverty stricken many Ukrainians are. The little of this I have come into contact with surprises me. Yes hearing stories like this demonstrate the general issue of dating in Ukraine as there are a lot of people after easy money. I think this type of character in the stories you've stated find there way frequently across the Ukrainian dating scene. It’s why I question if I will spend much time there in future or in another FSU country.

I've got a pretty good idea what Kherson is like and it being a bit of a dump. It doesn't bother me, I've been to rough areas in UK and know the scene. When I choose to I can merge into the background quite well. I could understand her not wanting me to be in Kherson if this is the reason but she hasn't really offered up a reason at all when I question her. She either doesn't get back to me on it, talks of something else or (normally) goes back onto the UK visa thing. She won't even accept a compromise of another EU country with a decent economy as an short-medium term solution while we get to know each other in a domestic setting.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 02:03:28 PM
I'm calling BS on not having a choice.  Whenever I see that, I know a man is either lying (largely to himself) or delusional.  So, which is it?

Ok, there are the fat chicks but they are the ultimate turn off, it might as well be a bloke your trying to get with that's how most heterosexual males feel about fat chicks.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2017, 02:05:05 PM
Not every woman in the UK is fat, and certainly not all young women.


If all you can attract is fat women, then the problem is you, not the women.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on August 05, 2017, 03:24:15 PM
Most of you don't know how desperate things are in some parts of Ukraine.  The country is now awash in guns.  An acquaintance goes back to her small town in Western Ukraine every year, to visit her children and grandchildren.  She said that now (past two years), she is followed everywhere.  In the past, as someone with access to cash, she was bothered by drunkards and criminals, now, it has stretched to beyond that.

One of our neighbours went to her cousin's wedding in Ukraine.  There were six Canadians there.  The groom held them hostage at gunpoint, and stole their cash and credit cards.  They were being held hostage in a barn.  There was a shoot out with police.  Thankfully, no one was injured and, instead of enjoying his wedding night, the groom was arrested.

Recently, a Ukrainian was arrested in Italy.  He was an officer in the army, and shot an Italian journalist near the front (Ukrainian zone).  The reason?  To steal his camera and related equipment.  A female French journalist was spared because she didn't have anything to steal.  The Italians investigated, as the Ukrainian army didn't care.  Italy tried to have him extradited but again, Ukraine didn't care.  So, Italian investigators lured him to Italy.  This just demonstrates the cynicism in Ukraine today.  Life there is cheap.

Kherson is a small city not far from the war zone.  It was a dump during Soviet times, and no doubt is a dump now.  There are no jobs.  There is one long main street.  Go blocks from the city, and goats and chickens are running around.  So, a girl brings a foreigner and shows him around.  He leaves, and she still has to deal with all of those who believe she has money/goods.  Open season on her, including from the police.  She doesn't want to be somewhere where she has to worry about who comes to her door in the middle of the night.  From this perspective, asking to see England, and a "normal" life, makes sense.  Trench, you go home.  She stays there.

Our family has had shakedowns in the past because of receiving money.  This was before WU and moneygram, when Meest delivered money to the door, and it was never more than $200.  Now, at the relatives' request, we send only very small amounts, as we've been told "you don't know who will follow you home".  And this is in Kyiv, not some small city near some current Ukrainian hotspots.

Bigger cities are much safer, and foreigners, generally, are safe because they are a source of revenue.  But they are not immune, as the stories above demonstrate.

Trench, your paranoia won't end.  It will only grow.  You probably have the same paranoia with WW.

Kherson is not a dump, at least not all of it.  Fabrika is a major, regional shopping center that attracts both tourists and high-end shoppers.  It is located in, you guessed it, Kherson.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303931-d8552263-Reviews-Fabrika-Kherson_Kherson_Oblast.html

When I lived in Mykolaiv for a month, a couple of years back, I traveled to Fabrika to do some really nice shopping.  It is not fair to describe Kherson in such polarizing terms.  Kherson was the lynch pin for travelers going to Krim from other parts of Ukraine, and I am sure, since the Russian takeover, things have diminished.  But like any Ukrainian city, it does have its high points.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2017, 03:53:29 PM
Not every woman in the UK is fat, and certainly not all young women.


If all you can attract is fat women, then the problem is you, not the women.

Not all, but many, some research reports up to around 40 percent. Off the non-fatties competition among men are fierce for them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 05, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
...I care about the girl and if she made some compromise then things could work out...

Why??????  As I wrote above, you complain about her EVERY DAY, and keep on about the things she has done which you don't like.  What on earth is wrong with you?

...From my point of view I need to replenish money, sort out my life in terms of making sure I can offer a girl a good level of stability/provide for her. I also want to approach this venture with a new method, for me the messaging girls from a distance over Skype, etc is just not for me. I don't want to waste endless hours of my precious time writing messages to women that might be a fruitless cause to me I see it as a mugs game. I want to be down there on the street in girls home city calling them up there and then. Then as soon as I find one get into a domestic situation with her and have a 'real relationship'.

This doesn't make any sense at all!  First you say you need to replenish your money, etc.  Then, you don't want to waste any effort writing messages or talking on Skype, all of which takes some precious time, but is FREE.  Instead, you want to fly off to another country and jump feet first into a relationship with someone about whom you don't have the slightest clue because you've picked her up in the street or at a café, and who doesn't even speak your language as their native tongue (leading to endless misunderstandings which, with your mindset, will be totally misconstrued).

Does that sound about right?

Rather than wondering if a girl just put on an act for a week to get what she can out of me. Whether my girl did that I don't know, I do know when I will be back in the game roughly if she doesn't come around. If her time is being wasted as a result then its her fault for not having sincere intentions in the first place.

That's rubbish.  It's your fault for continuing this ridiculous excuse for a "relationship."

To everyone else who's looking at this - I'm guessing that Trenchcoat has put me on "Ignore."  There's no other possible reason for not responding to what I've written, when everyone else is getting answered.  :sad:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on August 05, 2017, 06:12:04 PM
Hello all.....
Over the last 8 months I've followed this forum, read a majority of starting out, experienced and married. I feel like I know most of the regular members here. 

I've taken it all on board, the pit falls, the red flags, members despair their successes . I've read most of your advice Trench and  I've cheered for you , felt your pain and also shook my head in disbelief, please don't take offence. 

I probably come from a different back ground to you Trench. I'm in my early 40's, I'm a novice to international dating, but I'm quite successful dating locally, from speed dating, online dating and approaching women face to face. I've been in a relationship of some form since my early teens, including a long term marriage with children, that  fell apart almost 3 years. My divorce was finally settled just last week.

While I've only taken the first initial steps in the journey, I'll tell you my story and maybe it will give you a fresh perspective, from an un-clouded mind.

I quite by accident stumbled into this, having no idea about, dating fsuw and really no intention to travel down this road, all I was looking for was an interesting exchange of cultures, basically a pen pal. This is how I portrayed myself on a free dating site . I contacted  several woman my own age, all quite honest and seemingly  genuine. One woman didn't  particularly engage me like the others as she was not on the site as regularly, but she was the first to suggest talking on Skype.

From our first face to face chat, we found we had been through an almost identical situation in our past marriages, we formed an instant friendship and bonded due to this. Over the next following week our friendship progressed, from chatting every couple of days to chatting daily. Although I was only looking for  friendship, this woman intrigued me, she was so  positive, always happy and was very open with her experiences in life, both good and bad. She was everything the typical stereotype of a fsuw was portrayed as. Over time I started developing genuine feelings for her and she did also, but we didn't make this obvious to each other and maintained our relationship on a strict friendship basis. It was enjoyable to talk to a woman and not feel I had to advance our conversation into a dating situation.

Over the following 6 months we chatted daily sometimes up to 12 hours a day, as she was able to message during work. We talked about everything and anything, from our dreams and aspirations, to the chances of life on other planets and every other topic in between. There was never one moment where we were lost for something to say. A conversation would seamlessly merge into many directions, far from our original thoughts.  We shared our lives through many hundreds of pictures, videos and thousands of messages.  We shared our daily activities from simple shopping trips, her amazing cooking, to special moments like birthdays,  family weddings and family  outings. She sent the most amazing, heartfelt birthday wishes to both my children and I. We both expressed our appreciation for the time we gave each other everyday. I would compliment her stunning pictures of herself and it was her that gave me a reality check " its just a picture " and " I'm a simple woman ". I bought her a birthday present, but had some issues with mailing it. Her reply... " l'm not a child, I don't need anything from you, but your friendship. Please don't send me anything" she's not materialistic at all.

Several months ago we finally expressed our true feelings for each other, we both knew we felt this from early on, but didn't want to affect the great friendship we had, for so many months. Our online relationship has gone from strength to strength, over each month that passes, our Skype calls are filled full of non stop laughter and incredibly deep conversations.  I have her in fits of laughter every day at work and her colleagues, thinks she going crazy. We greet each other with lovely messages, every day when we wake and when we go to bed. I realise we have never met and I am realistic, we may not have the same connection when we meet, but by taking our time and really getting to know each other, we have given it the best chance there is to have a successful relationship in the real world, if not we have developed a friendship that will last a lifetime. At this point in time,  It's everything I expected when I read about what a genuine relationship with a fsuw can be.

 I'm planning a holiday to visit her in her home town and it will be anther 3 months until this occurs. The total time we will have corresponded will be 11 months. I might be naive and this may not be the norm of  "get on a plane as soon as you can"  but I'm  glad I didn't follow that advice, this feels for me the right way to progress.

Trench from a complete novice  ( myself ) to someone who has much more experience, the lessons I've learn are this and bare in mind I've only conversed with one amazing woman .....

 Choose someone your own age, you will have much more in common and will be in the same stage in life ( no offence to the guys who have younger wives ).

Don't rush things, I made that mistake in my first  marriage, she was slim and attractive, but we didn't suit each other, we didn't take the time to really know each other, before making a commitment.

There are women out there that don't exhibit any red flags, don't settle for less. Your only concern will be trying to fathom, why the seeming perfect woman is interested in me.

When I meet this woman, as I do locally, I will pay for the regular things a man does, when he's dating, but a genuine woman will never ask for you to spend money on her, she will find happiness in  your company and not material things, from this happiness you won't mind giving gifts to show how much you care for her.   

Lastly, don't over analyze her behaviour or the relationship, you know in your heart when it feels right.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on August 05, 2017, 06:25:15 PM
Hello all.....
Over the last 8 months I've followed this forum, read a majority of starting out, experienced and married. I feel like I know most of the regular members here. 

I've taken it all on board, the pit falls, the red flags, members despair their successes . I've read most of your advice Trench and  I've cheered for you , felt your pain and also shook my head in disbelief, please don't take offence. 

I probably come from a different back ground to you Trench. I'm in my early 40's, I'm a novice to international dating, but I'm quite successful dating locally, from speed dating, online dating and approaching women face to face. I've been in a relationship of some form since my early teens, including a long term marriage with children, that  fell apart almost 3 years. My divorce was finally settled just last week.

While I've only taken the first initial steps in the journey, I'll tell you my story and maybe it will give you a fresh perspective, from an un-clouded mind.

I quite by accident stumbled into this, having no idea about, dating fsuw and really no intention to travel down this road, all I was looking for was an interesting exchange of cultures, basically a pen pal. This is how I portrayed myself on a free dating site . I contacted  several woman my own age, all quite honest and seemingly  genuine. One woman didn't  particularly engage me like the others as she was not on the site as regularly, but she was the first to suggest talking on Skype.

From our first face to face chat, we found we had been through an almost identical situation in our past marriages, we formed an instant friendship and bonded due to this. Over the next following week our friendship progressed, from chatting every couple of days to chatting daily. Although I was only looking for  friendship, this woman intrigued me, she was so  positive, always happy and was very open with her experiences in life, both good and bad. She was everything the typical stereotype of a fsuw was portrayed as. Over time I started developing genuine feelings for her and she did also, but we didn't make this obvious to each other and maintained our relationship on a strict friendship basis. It was enjoyable to talk to a woman and not feel I had to advance our conversation into a dating situation.

Over the following 6 months we chatted daily sometimes up to 12 hours a day, as she was able to message during work. We talked about everything and anything, from our dreams and aspirations, to the chances of life on other planets and every other topic in between. There was never one moment where we were lost for something to say. A conversation would seamlessly merge into many directions, far from our original thoughts.  We shared our lives through many hundreds of pictures, videos and thousands of messages.  We shared our daily activities from simple shopping trips, her amazing cooking, to special moments like birthdays,  family weddings and family  outings. She sent the most amazing, heartfelt birthday wishes to both my children and I. We both expressed our appreciation for the time we gave each other everyday. I would compliment her stunning pictures of herself and it was her that gave me a reality check " its just a picture " and " I'm a simple woman ". I bought her a birthday present, but had some issues with mailing it. Her reply... " l'm not a child, I don't need anything from you, but your friendship. Please don't send me anything" she's not materialistic at all.

Several months ago we finally expressed our true feelings for each other, we both knew we felt this from early on, but didn't want to affect the great friendship we had, for so many months. Our online relationship has gone from strength to strength, over each month that passes, our Skype calls are filled full of non stop laughter and incredibly deep conversations.  I have her in fits of laughter every day at work and her colleagues, thinks she going crazy. We greet each other with lovely messages, every day when we wake and when we go to bed. I realise we have never met and I am realistic, we may not have the same connection when we meet, but by taking our time and really getting to know each other, we have given it the best chance there is to have a successful relationship in the real world, if not we have developed a friendship that will last a lifetime. At this point in time,  It's everything I expected when I read about what a genuine relationship with a fsuw can be.

 I'm planning a holiday to visit her in her home town and it will be anther 3 months until this occurs. The total time we will have corresponded will be 11 months. I might be naive and this may not be the norm of  "get on a plane as soon as you can"  but I'm  glad I didn't follow that advice, this feels for me the right way to progress.

Trench from a complete novice  ( myself ) to someone who has much more experience, the lessons I've learn are this and bare in mind I've only conversed with one amazing woman .....

 Choose someone your own age, you will have much more in common and will be in the same stage in life ( no offence to the guys who have younger wives ).

Don't rush things, I made that mistake in my first  marriage, she was slim and attractive, but we didn't suit each other, we didn't take the time to really know each other, before making a commitment.

There are women out there that don't exhibit any red flags, don't settle for less. Your only concern will be trying to fathom, why the seeming perfect woman is interested in me.

When I meet this woman, as I do locally, I will pay for the regular things a man does, when he's dating, but a genuine woman will never ask for you to spend money on her, she will find happiness in  your company and not material things, from this happiness you won't mind giving gifts to show how much you care for her.   

Lastly, don't over analyze her behaviour or the relationship, you know in your heart when it feels right.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)

Actually it is quite refreshing.  Welcome to the forum.  Keep us informed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on August 05, 2017, 06:51:04 PM
Thanks jone,
I will update after my trip : )

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 05, 2017, 06:54:30 PM
I'm planning a holiday to visit her in her home town and it will be anther 3 months until this occurs. The total time we will have corresponded will be 11 months. I might be naive and this may not be the norm of  "get on a plane as soon as you can"  but I'm  glad I didn't follow that advice, this feels for me the right way to progress.


I think things will work out well for you Davo when you visit her based on how you two click together. Most regulars would not recommend waiting too long before getting on a plane. We recommend getting on a plane as soon as a guy finds a woman he clicks well with. We seen too many guys get hot and heavy corresponding with a lady for months only to see things end because she got tired the man couldn't make things happen fast enough. You beat the odds. Your lady has a limit to how much she'd correspond with you. She may have waited for a few more months or maybe even years. Only she knows. Good thing you didn't hit her limit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on August 05, 2017, 07:16:01 PM
Thanks Billy,
It wasn't particularly by choice, my divorce has been  a long and drawn out affair. It's been hard on my children and I couldn't leave them for two weeks and feel comfortable about it.
She had stated that she will wait as long as it takes as my children must come first. It's been an attraction for her that I'm a very committed single father.
Interestingly enough, her friend conversed with a foreign man for a year before they met, so I don't think this has been a major issue for her, but I am surprised that our online relationship has intensified even during the last few weeks,  maybe because it's getting closer to meeting.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 05, 2017, 07:49:25 PM
Thanks Billy,
It wasn't particularly by choice, my divorce has been  a long and drawn out affair. It's been hard on my children and I couldn't leave them for two weeks and feel comfortable about it.
She had stated that she will wait as long as it takes as my children must come first. It's been an attraction for her that I'm a very committed single father.
Interestingly enough, her friend conversed with a foreign man for a year before they met, so I don't think this has been a major issue for her, but I am surprised that our online relationship has intensified even during the last few weeks,  maybe because it's getting closer to meeting.

She must be very patient and trusts you a lot to be waiting till you finish a divorce. Most women have a policy of not dating a man until he's free. Some people here won't approve of you searching for a woman before the divorce is final but truth is some men and women have checked out of the marriage long before the final paperwork is signed and are emotionally ready to move on.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on August 05, 2017, 08:07:53 PM
Actually, we have been officially divorced for 3 years. Its just been a lengthy court battle to sort out our children's issues  and the final settlement of our property and assets.... During this time I've dated 4 women locally
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 06, 2017, 01:19:27 PM

Over the following 6 months we chatted daily sometimes up to 12 hours a day, as she was able to message during work. We talked about everything and anything, from our dreams and aspirations, to the chances of life on other planets and every other topic in between. There was never one moment where we were lost for something to say. A conversation would seamlessly merge into many directions, far from our original thoughts.  We shared our lives through many hundreds of pictures, videos and thousands of messages.  We shared our daily activities from simple shopping trips, her amazing cooking, to special moments like birthdays,  family weddings and family  outings.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)

Welcome to the forum, I wish you the best

I spent too many months developing something with a girl from
Georgia. When I got there we didn't have mutual chemistry even
though both of us really wanted it to happen. I spent all that time
and it didn't work out. That's one of the reasons that I recommend
getting on a plane, that way you don't waste time with a girl that
you don't have mutual chemistry.

The second reason is that FSUW are very pragmatic. I know a girl
from Luckylovers who lived in one of the Stans, tall, pretty and
smart. There was a guy who was handsome, smart and liked
the girl a lot but didn't pull the trigger.

Then a relatively homely guy (and a dork) from the other forum,
got on a plane and met the girl. Who do you think she married?
It was the homely dork because he got his butt on a plane.

This is my story
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0

Here is if you want to skip ahead to going to Georgia
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.450
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 06, 2017, 04:02:47 PM
Davo,

2^bill, Knows me - and I will repeat his comments in another way - have a passport - book a ticket - meet said female - it may or not work out.

Figure out why (do not be crestfallen if it is chemistry or her fault) try again only after you understand the mistakes made.

vA
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 06, 2017, 04:25:17 PM
whoops double post by Bill
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 06, 2017, 04:26:46 PM
Why??????  As I wrote above, you complain about her EVERY DAY, and keep on about the things she has done which you don't like.  What on earth is wrong with you?

This doesn't make any sense at all!  First you say you need to replenish your money, etc.  Then, you don't want to waste any effort writing messages or talking on Skype, all of which takes some precious time, but is FREE.  Instead, you want to fly off to another country and jump feet first into a relationship with someone about whom you don't have the slightest clue because you've picked her up in the street or at a café, and who doesn't even speak your language as their native tongue (leading to endless misunderstandings which, with your mindset, will be totally misconstrued).

Does that sound about right?

That's rubbish.  It's your fault for continuing this ridiculous excuse for a "relationship."

To everyone else who's looking at this - I'm guessing that Trenchcoat has put me on "Ignore."  There's no other possible reason for not responding to what I've written, when everyone else is getting answered.  :sad:

Not ignore Kiwi, I'm just a man in demand what can I say ;D

I mean I were messaging a lot with present girl, now not so. With other girls no I'm not going to fall into the trap of getting in touch with another random girl on the internet, wasting hours/weeks/months in messaging just to get there and find out - chemistry is not there, she's a Holiday whore, Shopping scammer, Immigration scammer or other type of scammer, or some other weirdness etc. Yes I'm not surprised the search can take years at that rate, lol. This time I'm planning to be out there a fair while next year. I want to meet girls as they are not have a facade shown to me by them covering their real life at home. Don't think for one moment because she tells you X and X about her life over the internet it is true - sometimes it might be. I want to work with knowing I am dealing with reality, that way there isn't anything for me to get paranoid over ;) and I think better relationship prospects all round. What's the point of getting with a girl and she's told me this or that but despite being intimate with her I don't really know anything for certain, not much I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 06, 2017, 04:53:59 PM
Hello all.....
Over the last 8 months I've followed this forum, read a majority of starting out, experienced and married. I feel like I know most of the regular members here. 

I've taken it all on board, the pit falls, the red flags, members despair their successes . I've read most of your advice Trench and  I've cheered for you , felt your pain and also shook my head in disbelief, please don't take offence... 

...I'm planning a holiday to visit her in her home town and it will be anther 3 months until this occurs. The total time we will have corresponded will be 11 months. I might be naive and this may not be the norm of  "get on a plane as soon as you can"  but I'm  glad I didn't follow that advice, this feels for me the right way to progress.

Trench from a complete novice  ( myself ) to someone who has much more experience, the lessons I've learn are this and bare in mind I've only conversed with one amazing woman .....

 Choose someone your own age, you will have much more in common and will be in the same stage in life ( no offence to the guys who have younger wives ).

Don't rush things, I made that mistake in my first  marriage, she was slim and attractive, but we didn't suit each other, we didn't take the time to really know each other, before making a commitment.

There are women out there that don't exhibit any red flags, don't settle for less. Your only concern will be trying to fathom, why the seeming perfect woman is interested in me.

When I meet this woman, as I do locally, I will pay for the regular things a man does, when he's dating, but a genuine woman will never ask for you to spend money on her, she will find happiness in  your company and not material things, from this happiness you won't mind giving gifts to show how much you care for her.   

Lastly, don't over analyze her behaviour or the relationship, you know in your heart when it feels right.

Many of you can probably point out many mistakes in my thought process, I guess I'll find out soon :)

Ok Davo, I cut out the boring stuff in your post ;D

Well the girl I sort of with she rejected stuff being sent to her (a possible Red Flag, I think more so now) instead she waited until we were together to pester me into buying this or that. I did so as I thought we had a real relationship there. We both agreed that we were serious and were intimate together.

Corresponding a lot is not a problem, most try to condense it down to a few months. I probably didn't Skype enough but when the girl does not speak good English and she gets tired quickly of trying then it tends to be that way. As 2tallbill points out though, getting on well on Skype and meeting in person are two different things, there may well be chemistry there you'll only find out for definite when there. That is the bitch of doing visit one, you invest so much time, money, effort but most of all emotional energy in one girl that if it doesn't work out its feels so bad. Some can perhaps walk away from a situation easier than others. I know 2tallbill states he set up vo's then if nothing there quickly moved to sourcing other women of the dating sites. Myself I would find this difficult unless the girl was a real bad one or just quit the date anyway. I would personally rather just go out there with an empty hand next time for a fair old time and source women of the dating sites once there.

I can tell Davo you are already set up to go out there and meet her and while she sounds good be careful. My girl came across as warm, caring, affectionate, genuine, sincere but many can hide bad intentions and self serving attitudes. You are no doubt more people skilled than I am but its so easy to be taken in. I would suggest before committing to any relationship decision once with her probe her to find out if she seems particularly after/strongly about anything. She might just be after obtaining immigration or what ever its not always money. A smart girl in Ukraine/FSU knows she can earn far more in US, UK, Australia, etc than she ever could in Ukraine or Russia, etc. Its the dumb girl that will go after a few shopping items, holiday whoring, lol, which are only ever short term gains. Good Luck!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 06, 2017, 06:31:09 PM
Corresponding a lot is not a problem, most try to condense it down to a few months. I probably didn't Skype enough but when the girl does not speak good English and she gets tired quickly of trying then it tends to be that way.

How many times have you been told that, if a FSUW is "into you," you will know it?  If she can't be bothered improving her English enough to hold conversations on Skype then she obviously doesn't care anywhere nearly as much as you thought.

As 2tallbill points out though, getting on well on Skype and meeting in person are two different things, there may well be chemistry there you'll only find out for definite when there.

True - but if she couldn't be bothered making the effort on Skype, why on earth waste your time going to meet her in person?

That is the bitch of doing visit one, you invest so much time, money, effort but most of all emotional energy in one girl that if it doesn't work out its feels so bad. Some can perhaps walk away from a situation easier than others... Myself I would find this difficult unless the girl was a real bad one or just quit the date anyway.

That's become painfully obvious - and yet there are so many negative things you've posted about her that it's clear to everyone else on this forum that (for you, at least) she IS "a real bad one."  :cluebat:

As for the rest of your post - fuggedaboutit!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2017, 06:41:05 PM
Well the girl I sort of with she rejected stuff being sent to her (a possible Red Flag, I think more so now) instead she waited until we were together to pester me into buying this or that. I did so as I thought we had a real relationship there. We both agreed that we were serious and were intimate together.

That's not a red flag.  Even the spending spree isn't if you agreed to it.

Note what I posted above.  I don't care what jone posted, Kherson is a backward dump with few jobs.  Yes, it's a "pretty" town, most towns in Ukraine are.  By "dump", I mean no prospects for a normal life.  She doesn't want people to know she has goods from abroad, it will cause jealousy and issues for her.

This obsession with "red flags" is unhealthy.  What you should be seeking is someone who wants the same lifestyle you do.  That is what HDL was referring to when he said he skyped with his lady a lot before they met in person.  He knew what her goals in life were, and how they would align with his.  That is why you skype.   Skype should be used as a screen to discard women who don't have the same goals in life that you do.

Personally, I think your obsession with being the "boss" means you are doomed in most any relationship.  Women want a man with testosterone, but most don't want to be ruled by a man.

Quote
I can tell Davo you are already set up to go out there and meet her and while she sounds good be careful. My girl came across as warm, caring, affectionate, genuine, sincere but many can hide bad intentions and self serving attitudes. You are no doubt more people skilled than I am but its so easy to be taken in. I would suggest before committing to any relationship decision once with her probe her to find out if she seems particularly after/strongly about anything. She might just be after obtaining immigration or what ever its not always money. A smart girl in Ukraine/FSU knows she can earn far more in US, UK, Australia, etc than she ever could in Ukraine or Russia, etc. Its the dumb girl that will go after a few shopping items, holiday whoring, lol, which are only ever short term gains. Good Luck!

Once again with the scammers.

First, the standard of living in Russia is not particularly bad.  There are at least two former posters here who, after their divorces, returned to Russia.  Leaving your family, your language, and often, a good job, for a country where you will always be a foreigner is not nothing. Ukraine is different because of economic and political difficulties currently. 

The shopping trip is just someone from poverty seeing things she could never afford, and being with someone for whom, she assumes, these expenses mean little. 

You think you were taken advantage of. You weren't.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2017, 06:45:31 PM
How many times have you been told that, if a FSUW is "into you," you will know it?  If she can't be bothered improving her English enough to hold conversations on Skype then she obviously doesn't care anywhere nearly as much as you thought.


If he's into her, why isn't he learning her language enough to converse with her?  Doesn't that go both ways?

Quote
That's become painfully obvious - and yet there are so many negative things you've posted about her that it's clear to everyone else on this forum that (for you, at least) she IS "a real bad one."


I disagree with this, and with the sentiment in general.  She may not be what most men want in a wife, but that doesn't mean she is a "bad" one.  It just means her goals don't align with what some, perhaps most, here want in a wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 06, 2017, 07:13:41 PM
If he's into her, why isn't he learning her language enough to converse with her?  Doesn't that go both ways?

Although I speak a little bit of Russian, I've changed my mind on this over the years, to the extent that I now agree pretty much with ML (and others) who point out that, if a woman from the FSU moves to a country where another language predominates, she needs to learn that language (whether it be English, French [Patagonie] or Norwegian [The Natural and Northkape]).  If this girl was into Trenchcoat as much as he hoped, then she should have been happy to make the effort.

That's not to say that Trenchcoat shouldn't be learning at least some Ukrainian - as he still has dreams of moving there next year, "some" is an absolute minimum.

I disagree with this, and with the sentiment in general.  She may not be what most men want in a wife, but that doesn't mean she is a "bad" one.  It just means her goals don't align with what some, perhaps most, here want in a wife.

You're missing my point.  From what Trenchcoat has described, she is a "bad one" FOR HIM.  She may well be a wonderful person in reality, but his description is of a typically self-centred girl in her early 20s, who is nowhere near ready to settle down with Trenchcoat in the lifestyle he proposes.  That's why I have continually posted that he should dump her and look for someone else who is better-suited.  I honestly can't see her being too broken-hearted!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2017, 07:20:08 PM
Given that he may not be serious about her, why should she learn English?  Perhaps she'll end up with a Swede, or a German, or an Italian.

People in Kherson speak Russian, not Ukrainian.

Fair enough on the comment, but I don't think Trench is going to find what he has professed he is looking for in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on August 06, 2017, 07:47:07 PM
Trench, you still obsessing over this girl?  :cluebat:

Kherson is a dump like Zaporozhye. Didn't see chicken roaming the town. I liked Lviv the best in Ukraine. Didn't see obstacle course of pot holes. And the architecture is wonderful.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 06, 2017, 08:02:45 PM
If he's into her, why isn't he learning her language enough to converse with her?  Doesn't that go both ways?


I'm with Kiwi on this one but if Trench was into his woman, he'd trust her. She's probably wondering if he is into her as he is wondering if she is into him.

I liked Lviv the best in Ukraine. Didn't see obstacle course of pot holes. And the architecture is wonderful.


Cities and towns in West Ukraine tried their best to resist Soviet architecture. That's why it's more beautiful over there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2017, 09:54:49 PM
Trench, you still obsessing over this girl?  :cluebat:

Kherson is a dump like Zaporozhye. Didn't see chicken roaming the town. I liked Lviv the best in Ukraine. Didn't see obstacle course of pot holes. And the architecture is wonderful.

'Ri-ight'..so we should choose our partners based on the beauty of the city ?  ;)

We've got friends from Kherson - Mum lives in Sochi - her grown son lives in Sochi and he is divorced and the ex-wife is still Kherson and the - now - just 18 year old daughter and her Grandma go back and forth ( via ) Crimea!

They are lovely people - the salt of the earth.


I've never been to Kherson - but chatted to a lass from there - four years ago - before meeting SC.... Things were not good then - she was 'an accountant' and when the war kicked off - we stayed in touch for another two years. She certainly wasn't the type of woman that would jump at the chance to leave her city - she  had a very jaded 
view of dating foreign men. Not the sort that needed to be 'rescued'

 Just an example - she may have a different attitude, now.. Her daughter will be of Uni age.



 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2017, 10:06:32 PM
I didn't post that there were chickens in the town.  But if you wander just outside of town, you will see them.

The point is not that a woman is desperate to leave her hometown, it is a) she may want to see more of the world; and b) in these small cities, everyone knows everyone else's business. 

Things are much worse there now, moby.  I sense a real undercurrent of malaise in Ukraine now, though I was only there a short time this year.  My husband sensed it as well, and he was there longer.  It is a potentially explosive situation, mostly created by the current government.

Western Ukrainian cities are not more beautiful than those in Central Ukraine, but they were less destroyed by war.  Khreshchatyk (Kyiv's main street) was beautiful before WWII, when the fleeing communists blew it up.  Most of Kyiv's architecture was destroyed by the Bolsheviks.  I have a book on the lost architecture of Kyiv, which has a huge number of churches.  My husband remembers going to school and passing a church every morning.  One day, when he walked home from school, the church was gone.  Not even a brick remained. Vinnitsya, which is part of Western Ukraine, was bombed by the Germans.  The train station in Ternopil was destroyed during the war.  Most of the churches in Eastern/Central Ukraine were destroyed by the communists.  Same in Western Ukraine.  I've always thought Kyiv is the most beautiful city in Ukraine, although I'm not crazy about its post Soviet architectural additions.  The Hyatt is a crime against humanity.  Nevertheless, I still prefer Kyiv to L'viv.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 06, 2017, 11:22:46 PM
Western Ukrainian cities are not more beautiful than those in Central Ukraine, but they were less destroyed by war. 


A lot of Soviet architecture went up after the war. Those ugly cut and paste block apartments are all over the FSU but are rarely seen in Western Ukraine. There is a clear difference in theme of buildings between Western Ukraine and other parts of the FSU. Lviv even has a cemetery so beautiful, there are numerous tour buses parked outside at any given time and tour guides, speaking many different languages, guiding groups through the cemetery.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2017, 11:51:11 PM

Things are much worse there now, moby.  I sense a real undercurrent of malaise in Ukraine now, though I was only there a short time this year.  My husband sensed it as well, and he was there longer.  It is a potentially explosive situation, mostly created by the current government.

Thanks, for the update, Boethius ...  My most recent' trips' to Ukraine have been fleeting - the SLOW train to Moscow -
 from 'Abkhazia' stops at the border with Lugansk Oblast ( still under Kyiv control)  folks get on the train to sell produce and get off at the next stop - the train going 10km inside Ukraine.


Our friends from Kherson have varying views of the situation - the son - in his early 40's thinks "only Russia can help" - he doesn't go back .... his Ma is more circumspect



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2017, 04:57:09 AM
That's not a red flag.  Even the spending spree isn't if you agreed to it.

Note what I posted above.  I don't care what jone posted, Kherson is a backward dump with few jobs.  Yes, it's a "pretty" town, most towns in Ukraine are.  By "dump", I mean no prospects for a normal life.  She doesn't want people to know she has goods from abroad, it will cause jealousy and issues for her.

This obsession with "red flags" is unhealthy.  What you should be seeking is someone who wants the same lifestyle you do.  That is what HDL was referring to when he said he skyped with his lady a lot before they met in person.  He knew what her goals in life were, and how they would align with his.  That is why you skype.   Skype should be used as a screen to discard women who don't have the same goals in life that you do.

Personally, I think your obsession with being the "boss" means you are doomed in most any relationship.  Women want a man with testosterone, but most don't want to be ruled by a man.

Once again with the scammers.

First, the standard of living in Russia is not particularly bad.  There are at least two former posters here who, after their divorces, returned to Russia.  Leaving your family, your language, and often, a good job, for a country where you will always be a foreigner is not nothing. Ukraine is different because of economic and political difficulties currently. 

The shopping trip is just someone from poverty seeing things she could never afford, and being with someone for whom, she assumes, these expenses mean little. 

You think you were taken advantage of. You weren't.

This is where you and 2tallbill differ, he is big on 'driving the bus' and states it is bad the moment you are not. I see it as bad if you are with a scammer she will take you for all its worth. I'm not saying my girl was a scammer as such. It seems to me her obsession with gaining a UK visa seems that that is what she is after rather than me. Boethius I think your depiction of Kherson will be accurate enough, I went to Nikolaev last year and it will be no doubt somewhat similar, a nice enough place to walk around albeit the concrete tenement blocks but few opportunities. If a girl want to be with me and better opportunities fine, if its just the opportunities then there is a problem. I know you can't control someone but I'm not having a girl use me as a mule then move on as soon as she is here - I cannot properly assess her loyalty after two one week holidays together. I need far more time yet she doesn't want to see me anywhere else than UK. I mean its not doubt possible to put up with a guy for a week or two to get what you want, its harder over the course of several weeks together, cracks will often begin to show.

I too wondered about the stuff she bought in Cyprus, I mean a fair amount of that stuff was brand stuff and if she walked around in as much of it as I bought her then she could make herself a target, jealousy as you say and I'm guessing from what you say people soon turn upon you there. I don't know what she does with it, whether she sells it or just tries it on in her bedroom but too much of a risk anywhere else, lol. Seems almost pointless buying it but if she likes to do the girly thing in her bedroom then maybe that's it.

Yes I agreed that she could buy her one or two items but she was unstoppable. No doubt a lot of girls think everyone in the west are rich and the streets are paved with gold, this is not true. If you stand around in a shop buying stuff all day then money soon goes particularly when buying brand items. That is a big problem here, the girl has no idea of how much stuff is worth and reality if it were her own money she would be more careful, but of course her own money isn't really hers as it goes on rent. The way I would see to resolve this would be for her to have a part time job in UK and she uses that for clothes shopping money, that way she get to know what money is worth and what it takes to earn it. 

Yes some girls go for way more pricey things like expensive jewellery, it was more her attitude than anything else. I've mentioned the food she ordered then didn't eat already but there was also suntanning/aftersun products she bought except it wasn't the decent standard Ambre Solaire stuff it was staff that came to about £100 for a few tubes/bottle of suntanning lotion/aftersun, crazy. I mean it was starting to take the pee a bit. Maybe she wanted to act it up as a spoilt LA teen but it was ruining our relationship. I wanted to go there for a nice holiday enjoying Cyprus and each others company not go there and see my wallet take a pounding from over-excessive purchases.

Anyway, unless something happens on the visiting front I can't see this relationship going any further to tackle the shopping problem. I mean her not wanting me to visit Kherson without giving me an adequate explanation isn't on, I've stated the problems with her visiting the UK. Yet on Kherson all I get is she won't meet with me and that's it. What am I supposed to do with that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 07, 2017, 04:58:58 AM
Given that he may not be serious about her, why should she learn English?  Perhaps she'll end up with a Swede, or a German, or an Italian.

English is very much a lingua franca amongst at least the younger generation in Western Europe.  Wherever you go, you will find plenty who speak English, and speak it well.  It's a lot different now from when I visited in 1987, when French people (for example) were actively discouraged from speaking English, and caused a lot of tourists to swear that they would never visit such a rude country again.  :D  Admittedly that attitude was far more prevalent in Paris than in the provinces, but it was a complete contrast to what I found in Germany and Scandinavia.

No matter where she ends up, English will be useful to her to some extent.  She can worry about another language if and when she gets swept off her feet by Romeo, Jean-Claude or Jurgen!

People in Kherson speak Russian, not Ukrainian.

Noted, but I would expect that, even there, more Ukrainian is spoken than before the invasion.

...but I don't think Trench is going to find what he has professed he is looking for in Ukraine.

No kidding!  I think that you would have the ALMOST unanimous support of the entire membership on that one.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2017, 05:13:12 AM
How many times have you been told that, if a FSUW is "into you," you will know it?  If she can't be bothered improving her English enough to hold conversations on Skype then she obviously doesn't care anywhere nearly as much as you thought.

True - but if she couldn't be bothered making the effort on Skype, why on earth waste your time going to meet her in person?

That's become painfully obvious - and yet there are so many negative things you've posted about her that it's clear to everyone else on this forum that (for you, at least) she IS "a real bad one."  :cluebat:

As for the rest of your post - fuggedaboutit!

See this is the reason I don't reply to you often Kiwi, you don't understand the problem. She is trying to learn English - yes she learnt some in School but I learnt French, was I much good, no, same goes for Ukrainians/Russians. Some are better than others, some need more help, particularly if its been a few years since she last spoke it. That I can understand and of course she is going to get tired speaking it and trying to understand me if she's a bit rusty on it, and of course tired after the long hours she apparently works. Yes a fluent speaker is preferable but I also need to look at the girl and if we seem to get on/chemistry together. So no I obviously can't have real lengthy conversations with her particularly as she uses camera phone and connectivity is not good. We are unassumingly talking of real life situation here, normal people that have daily routines and can't sit around Skyping ever hour under the sun, some of us have to work you know ;D

Funny, I said the same thing about learning English Language to her, that its the most common language, particularly in Europe so best one for her to learn. A bit like why I chose to try and learn Russian instead of Ukrainian as its more widely used in FSU so avoid me having to learn a different language each time if I chose to look in different FSU countries. Not ideal but best all round solution. She said the same as Boethius, on why learning English when she might meet someone of a different country/language, but end of the day few people are linguistically gifted enough to be able to learn them all/pick up any language quickly.

My methodology was wrong, I should have insisted on visiting her in her home city to start with though she probably would have rejected that and seeing me, lol. That is why I'm going to a city in FSU to date in future. The negative stuff I've posted about her is because of issues in the relationship, there are positives as well but her obstruction to me taking things further on my terms are really putting a block on this relationship that I wished wasn't there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 07, 2017, 07:06:26 AM
The part of the approach that causes the most issues is you're fear of being used,compounded by chasing women at a stage in life most likely to use you.She, and most that age have not become who they will be in 5 or ten years. They live for today, and have not settled down or really thought of the future that much.
As far as English :
1.a woman that's into you won't tire of trying to communicate.
2.English fluency ,even in kherson,  is a  boost in potential jobs and opportunities.

You need to look for a woman who is at your stage in life,that values what you value, whose priorities match your own.
It can happen with a twenty something,  but what are the odds?
You make finding a needle in the haystack, more akin to finding a grain of sugar on the surface of the moon .

The priorities on your search hamper everything. Good or bad method won't significantly matter  in comparison.

I married a much younger woman, so I'm throwing stones from a glass house,  but I do know the difficulty and odds in finding what you seek in that age group.
My wife was certainly ready to get married and start a family, that was her priority. Yes you can tell that with a great degree of confidence just nmby how and what someone talks about, what their interests are, how they are around their family and friends,  how they are around children etc.including *who* thy buy stuff for, who is in their thoughts.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 11:15:35 AM
A lot of Soviet architecture went up after the war. Those ugly cut and paste block apartments are all over the FSU but are rarely seen in Western Ukraine. There is a clear difference in theme of buildings between Western Ukraine and other parts of the FSU. Lviv even has a cemetery so beautiful, there are numerous tour buses parked outside at any given time and tour guides, speaking many different languages, guiding groups through the cemetery.

There is a whole city of those "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" halfway between L'viv and Ivano Frankivsk.

L'viv has its share of Soviet architecture - the Polytechnical University, the Pioneer Palace (now renamed "Prohulinka"),  the Veterinary Academy main building, the bus station.  It also does have Soviet era apartment buildings.  I've been in Soviet built apartments in Ivano Frankivsk and Ternopil.  I've also been in Soviet built hotels in Ternopil, Vinnitsya, and Chernivtsi.

Baikove cemetery in Kyiv is as beautiful, I think more so, than L'viv's Lychakiv cemetery.  I've been to both.  I had a friend who spent an afternoon in Baikove cemetery, searching for the grave of Ivan Franko.  I disappointed her when I told her he's buried in L'viv.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 11:31:55 AM
This is where you and 2tallbill differ, he is big on 'driving the bus' and states it is bad the moment you are not.

I think he means going there with purpose.  He definitely does not mean your way or the highway.

Quote
I see it as bad if you are with a scammer she will take you for all its worth. I'm not saying my girl was a scammer as such. It seems to me her obsession with gaining a UK visa seems that that is what she is after rather than me.

Accept it as the reality.  It's the case with almost any FSUW who marries a WM.  It doesn't mean she won't love him or be a good wife.
Quote
I think your depiction of Kherson will be accurate enough, I went to Nikolaev last year and it will be no doubt somewhat similar, a nice enough place to walk around albeit the concrete tenement blocks but few opportunities. If a girl want to be with me and better opportunities fine, if its just the opportunities then there is a problem. I know you can't control someone but I'm not having a girl use me as a mule then move on as soon as she is here - I cannot properly assess her loyalty after two one week holidays together. I need far more time yet she doesn't want to see me anywhere else than UK. I mean its not doubt possible to put up with a guy for a week or two to get what you want, its harder over the course of several weeks together, cracks will often begin to show.
What makes you think you will be able to discern that in Kherson?  As I posted previously, I knew UM who married women who only wanted a propiska (stamp enabling them to live in Kyiv in Soviet times).  If they couldn't suss it out, despite being from the same culture, what chance do you have?

Quote
I too wondered about the stuff she bought in Cyprus, I mean a fair amount of that stuff was brand stuff and if she walked around in as much of it as I bought her then she could make herself a target, jealousy as you say and I'm guessing from what you say people soon turn upon you there. I don't know what she does with it, whether she sells it or just tries it on in her bedroom but too much of a risk anywhere else, lol. Seems almost pointless buying it but if she likes to do the girly thing in her bedroom then maybe that's it.

No, people likely will assume she bought knock offs at the market.
Quote
Yes I agreed that she could buy her one or two items but she was unstoppable. No doubt a lot of girls think everyone in the west are rich and the streets are paved with gold, this is not true. If you stand around in a shop buying stuff all day then money soon goes particularly when buying brand items. That is a big problem here, the girl has no idea of how much stuff is worth and reality if it were her own money she would be more careful, but of course her own money isn't really hers as it goes on rent. The way I would see to resolve this would be for her to have a part time job in UK and she uses that for clothes shopping money, that way she get to know what money is worth and what it takes to earn it. 

It's still your fault for acquiescing in buying her everything she wanted.

Quote
Yes some girls go for way more pricey things like expensive jewellery, it was more her attitude than anything else. I've mentioned the food she ordered then didn't eat already but there was also suntanning/aftersun products she bought except it wasn't the decent standard Ambre Solaire stuff it was staff that came to about £100 for a few tubes/bottle of suntanning lotion/aftersun, crazy. I mean it was starting to take the pee a bit. Maybe she wanted to act it up as a spoilt LA teen but it was ruining our relationship. I wanted to go there for a nice holiday enjoying Cyprus and each others company not go there and see my wallet take a pounding from over-excessive purchases.

I've explained the restaurant.  It is common there.  People there don't view restaurants as feedlots.  They go to restaurants for the experience, to try foods they would never be able to try otherwise.  Choosing the most expensive sunblock=typical "Soviet/post Soviet" mentality - the more expensive, the better it is.  She was acting completely within the standards of her society. 

Quote
Anyway, unless something happens on the visiting front I can't see this relationship going any further to tackle the shopping problem. I mean her not wanting me to visit Kherson without giving me an adequate explanation isn't on, I've stated the problems with her visiting the UK. Yet on Kherson all I get is she won't meet with me and that's it. What am I supposed to do with that?

You just don't get what everyone is telling you.  You are not going to change this behaviour.  She is not someone who is going to be a good wife.  Perhaps Jumper is correct, and she still needs to sort out who she is going to become, and is just not serious currently.  My view is we have set personalities pretty much from birth.  But in the end, unless you want to wait 5 to 10 years to determine if she will settle into being a decent wife, it doesn't matter. Unless you want to waste valuable time because you got laid.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 11:44:03 AM
English is very much a lingua franca amongst at least the younger generation in Western Europe.  Wherever you go, you will find plenty who speak English, and speak it well.  It's a lot different now from when I visited in 1987, when French people (for example) were actively discouraged from speaking English, and caused a lot of tourists to swear that they would never visit such a rude country again.  :D  Admittedly that attitude was far more prevalent in Paris than in the provinces, but it was a complete contrast to what I found in Germany and Scandinavia.

No matter where she ends up, English will be useful to her to some extent.  She can worry about another language if and when she gets swept off her feet by Romeo, Jean-Claude or Jurgen!

Noted, but I would expect that, even there, more Ukrainian is spoken than before the invasion.

No kidding!  I think that you would have the ALMOST unanimous support of the entire membership on that one.

Our son is working this summer in an EU country.  He doesn't speak the local language, went with zero knowledge and can now understand about half of what is said to him.  He is often in areas where no one speaks English.  When he bought his SIM card, no one spoke English.  When he goes to the local market, again, no one speaks English.  At his work, which is at a major university, his coworkers can speak English, but communicate in their language.

When we were in Paris 3 years ago, people spoke English at tourist sites, but in shops and local restaurants, they didn't. 

The girl may find English useful in very rudimentary encounters, but if she is going to function in Swedish/German/French/Italian society, she will have to learn the local language.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 07, 2017, 01:20:25 PM
There is a whole city of those "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" halfway between L'viv and Ivano Frankivsk.

L'viv has its share of Soviet architecture - the Polytechnical University, the Pioneer Palace (now renamed "Prohulinka"),  the Veterinary Academy main building, the bus station.  It also does have Soviet era apartment buildings.  I've been in Soviet built apartments in Ivano Frankivsk and Ternopil.  I've also been in Soviet built hotels in Ternopil, Vinnitsya, and Chernivtsi.



Kiev has some beautiful buildings, even some amazing Soviet architecture but outside of what government built for themselves, they built crap for citizens. In West Ukraine, people remodeled some of those ugly buildings by taking the flat roof and adding a peak, painting them bright colors, and adding window frames that resemble those used hundreds of years ago. Pound for pound, Lviv did a better job beautifying their city compared to what Kiev has done. WallM and I are two guys that notice a clear difference between Lviv and other cities. Not as much money in Ivano Frankivsk and other smaller towns to keep up with Lviv but people in West Ukraine certainly don't like Soviet architecture and would get rid of it if they could afford it.

http://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-lviv-elections-model-of-future/27323230.html
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 07, 2017, 02:25:25 PM
There is a whole city of those "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" halfway between L'viv and Ivano Frankivsk.

L'viv has its share of Soviet architecture - the Polytechnical University, the Pioneer Palace (now renamed "Prohulinka"),  the Veterinary Academy main building, the bus station.  It also does have Soviet era apartment buildings.  I've been in Soviet built apartments in Ivano Frankivsk and Ternopil.  I've also been in Soviet built hotels in Ternopil, Vinnitsya, and Chernivtsi.

Baikove cemetery in Kyiv is as beautiful, I think more so, than L'viv's Lychakiv cemetery.  I've been to both.  I had a friend who spent an afternoon in Baikove cemetery, searching for the grave of Ivan Franko.  I disappointed her when I told her he's buried in L'viv.

Having visited both L'viv and Franko by train/plane numerous times once even connecting by bus (marchutka) on the outskirts there is more than enough "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" there. You can find the same in Paris, near Amsterdam or NYC. But L'viv especially within its city lines remains beautiful and fascinating. It also has avoided the excesses of the post Soviet building era.

If you want to see really poor design I would suggest Leeds in England and Philadelphia in the States. Yet the historic center of both are interesting. And if you want to see the mother of all f/u go to Moscow. I should note I like modern architecture and suspect others disdain it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2017, 03:52:31 PM
I think he means going there with purpose.  He definitely does not mean your way or the highway.

Accept is as the reality.  It's the case with almost any FSUW who marries a WM.  It doesn't mean she won't love him or be a good wife.What makes you think you will be able to discern that in Kherson?  As I posted previously, I knew UM who married women who only wanted a propiska (stamp enabling them to live in Kyiv in Soviet times).  If they couldn't suss it out, despite being from the same culture, what chance do you have?

No, people likely will assume she bought knock offs at the market.
It's still your fault for acquiescing in buying her everything she wanted.

I've explained the restaurant.  It is common there.  People there don't view restaurants as feedlots.  They go to restaurants for the experience, to try foods they would never be able to try otherwise.  Choosing the most expensive sunblock=typical "Soviet/post Soviet" mentality - the more expensive, the better it is.  She was acting completely within the standards of her society. 

You just don't get what everyone is telling you.  You are not going to change this behaviour.  She is not someone who is going to be a good wife.  Perhaps Jumper is correct, and she still needs to sort out who she is going to become, and is just not serious currently.  My view is we have set personalities pretty much from birth.  But in the end, unless you want to wait 5 to 10 years to determine if she will settle into being a decent wife, it doesn't matter. Unless you want to waste valuable time because you got laid.

Well your right in her attitude not changing, just so weird that she just keeps repeating the same thing, won't respond to a reasoned argument (difficulty getting visa) or accept or suggest any compromise. What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.

I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.

Being with her in Kherson I figure if she is intimate often then all is good, if not then she would be trying it on for a visa. She has stated she is serious about me & having children and even in her mid twenties fells like there is not much time left for her to do this, lol. I just can't really tell with her which is why I need to see her in Kherson if anything were to come of this I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on August 07, 2017, 05:05:45 PM
Well your right in her attitude not changing, just so weird that she just keeps repeating the same thing, won't respond to a reasoned argument (difficulty getting visa) or accept or suggest any compromise. What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.

You are supposed to have moved on from her weeks ago. :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 05:14:52 PM
Having visited both L'viv and Franko by train/plane numerous times once even connecting by bus (marchutka) on the outskirts there is more than enough "ugly cut and paste apartment blocks" there. You can find the same in Paris, near Amsterdam or NYC. But L'viv especially within its city lines remains beautiful and fascinating. It also has avoided the excesses of the post Soviet building era.


Here is a building from within L'viv's city lines -


(http://www.karpaty.info/data/transport/img/lviv/4.jpg)


And more here -

http://lviv.com/en/urban-en/the-soviet-lviv-today-cosmodrome-pohulianka/ (http://lviv.com/en/urban-en/the-soviet-lviv-today-cosmodrome-pohulianka/)

I remember well both Kyiv and L'viv in Soviet times, and that's where one could really see that both cities had lots of Soviet architecture.  Kyiv had more in the city centre, partly because of WWII.

Kyiv's Podil was magical in its beauty.  Before the Revolution, it was the wealthiest area of the city, where the elite lived.  My husband's Great Grandfather's house still stands, but since the collapse of the USSR, most of those pre Soviet buildings have been torn down and replaced with ugly monstrosities.  Yet, I still prefer Kyiv for its greenery, it's botanical gardens, its hydropark. Another thing that is missing now (in addition to the appalling infrastructure) is flowers.  Everywhere you went in Soviet times, the city had beautiful flowers.  Sometimes in a Lenin head shape with a pithy slogan, but lots and lots of planted and well maintained flowers.

Yes, L'viv has not had the excesses in post Soviet architecture that Kyiv has, and those excesses have been tragic, given how many pre Revolution buildings have been destroyed.  However, it is due to a lack of interest/money, rather than the foresight of its city administration.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2017, 05:21:15 PM
Well your right in her attitude not changing, just so weird that she just keeps repeating the same thing, won't respond to a reasoned argument (difficulty getting visa) or accept or suggest any compromise. What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.


Is this how you wish to live the rest of your life?  Do you understand what I am posting?

Quote
I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.


I've raised three children.  All their personalities are pretty much the same as they were as babies, pretty much from birth.  I've had other mothers tell me the same thing.

Quote
Being with her in Kherson I figure if she is intimate often then all is good, if not then she would be trying it on for a visa.

It means nothing.  This girl jumped into bed with you, I assume, shortly after your first meeting.  For her, sex is like water.  Unless you possess some magical powers as a man which makes you irresistible to women, which I doubt (or you wouldn't be looking abroad), do not take this as an indication of anything.
Quote
She has stated she is serious about me & having children and even in her mid twenties fells like there is not much time left for her to do this, lol.


Because in her culture, she is starting this at a late age.
Quote


I just can't really tell with her which is why I need to see her in Kherson if anything were to come of this I think.
Seeing her in Kherson will change nothing.  You are rationalizing something because you want it to be.  You are not seeing what is.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on August 07, 2017, 06:02:44 PM
See this is the reason I don't reply to you often Kiwi, you don't understand the problem.

No, Trenchcoat, it's you that, YET AGAIN, simply refuses to understand.  I (and many, MANY others on this forum) have been in your position in the past, which is why we're telling you why your approach simply won't work.  Admittedly I wasn't chasing twenty-somethings, but I made damned sure that whoever I went to visit was a reasonably good match for what I was looking for.  No, it didn't work out, and I'm not happily married to some smokinghotkova - but, by the same token, I'm not suffering all the angst that you are because of your seriously bad choice.

She is trying to learn English - yes she learnt some in School but I learnt French, was I much good, no, same goes for Ukrainians/Russians. Some are better than others, some need more help, particularly if its been a few years since she last spoke it. That I can understand and of course she is going to get tired speaking it and trying to understand me if she's a bit rusty on it, and of course tired after the long hours she apparently works.

So what?  You're missing this point, AGAIN!  If she was really into you she would be making much more effort than she appears to have done so far.

Yes a fluent speaker is preferable but I also need to look at the girl and if we seem to get on/chemistry together.

You're obviously still wondering of you really do have chemistry which, after all this time AND two holidays should be obvious.  My take is that you don't, so why not start looking for someone else with whom you DO have chemistry?

So no I obviously can't have real lengthy conversations with her particularly as she uses camera phone and connectivity is not good.

OK, so she doesn't have a computer.  Why not sometimes go to an internet cafe instead?  OK, she may not be able to discuss more personal items there because of the ears all around, but surely you would be better able to work through some of the more mundane stuff - like learning English.  It would surely be less stressful for her if she doesn't have to worry about holding the phone and whether or not the connection will hold.  You can also have her set Skype up with the simultaneous translation on a screen that she can actually read.

We are unassumingly talking of real life situation here, normal people that have daily routines and can't sit around Skyping ever hour under the sun, some of us have to work you know ;D

If the connection is there, you will forget about time limits.  Look at the posts from a couple of our new members, who have found that they're Skyping for anything up to 12 hours a day because they have so much to say to each other.

Funny, I said the same thing about learning English Language to her, that its the most common language, particularly in Europe so best one for her to learn. A bit like why I chose to try and learn Russian instead of Ukrainian as its more widely used in FSU so avoid me having to learn a different language each time if I chose to look in different FSU countries. Not ideal but best all round solution. She said the same as Boethius, on why learning English when she might meet someone of a different country/language, but end of the day few people are linguistically gifted enough to be able to learn them all/pick up any language quickly.

My point, which you actually appear to have heeded, is that there are far more English speakers scattered everywhere (not always in every town or village in Europe or the FSU, but enough), whereas it would take a lot of effort to find a Norwegian speaker in Llandudno or a Portuguese speaker in Amsterdam.

My methodology was wrong, I should have insisted on visiting her in her home city to start with though she probably would have rejected that and seeing me, lol.

In which case we would never have had months of a totally useless conversation, and you would possibly already be with the REAL future Mrs Trenchcoat!

That is why I'm going to a city in FSU to date in future. The negative stuff I've posted about her is because of issues in the relationship, there are positives as well but her obstruction to me taking things further on my terms are really putting a block on this relationship that I wished wasn't there.

Your attitude, and hers, simply show that you are totally incompatible.  :cluebat:  Why the hell can't you see that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 07, 2017, 06:28:29 PM

Here is a building from within L'viv's city lines -

(http://www.karpaty.info/data/transport/img/lviv/4.jpg)


I know the building - it is some distance from the historic center of L'viv. I will guess miles as a crow flies or a solid almost 1 hour walk. As I recall it is on the opposite side of town from the train station and even farther from the center. But yes technically both are in L'viv.

NB: I was curious yes both the train station and bus station are over/almost three miles from the opera house and a long distance to center.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 07, 2017, 07:24:16 PM
Well your right in her attitude not changing, just so weird that she just keeps repeating the same thing, won't respond to a reasoned argument (difficulty getting visa) or accept or suggest any compromise. What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.

To ne it's not particularly the not see you in kherson,  it's that she is intractable about several decent options to spend time together.
Frankly you two don't get on well enough for her to insist on uk. She should be at the same stage as you are, still sorting out the relationship and the person,abd willing to meet you in Paris as example. (Not many uw would turn down paris )
Quote
I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.
I think personalities are set.
That has very little to do with stage of life,or priorities in life and what ine values.

Yes an 8yr may have the same basic personality traits when he turns 49, but his priorities, and what's important to him are likely to be polar opposites (other than basic nessicities? )

  Few young people dont change priorities and substantially from 20 to 35.
If we arnt changing we arnt growing and maturing as an individual.
.

 
Quote
Being with her in Kherson I figure if she is intimate often then all is good, if not then she would be trying it on for a visa. She has stated she is serious about me & having children and even in her mid twenties fells like there is not much time left for her to do this, lol. I just can't really tell with her which is why I need to see her in Kherson if anything were to come of this I think.

She seems to mske little effort , and to be focused in what most women that age in her society are focused on..*what others (her peers )think*

She might mature out if that stage, and might not.
Doesn't make her a bad persin, makes it odd for you to chase her or wait fir her to grow up.
Unless you want a immature partner whose priorities are  frettting the brand (or husband) she has is good enough to make her peers envious , rather than focusing on life, career, family, or children?


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 07, 2017, 08:34:55 PM
What am I supposed to do just give into her? She won't accept my position at all.


She seems like a person that doesn't like to compromise. You're the kind of guy that likes to be in the driver's seat but easily ran over when push comes to shove.

Most here recommend dumping her but you don't want to. How about compromise? Disappear for a week and see if she gets worried about your welfare or you may learn she doesn't care if you stopped communicating. If she learns communication is breaking down, not because of your health but you getting turn off by her attitude, she can make adjustments to make you happy or keep a take it or leave it stance with you. She won't grow if you allow her to remain a spoiled brat by giving in to her every whim.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 07, 2017, 09:01:00 PM
Trench

This song is being played - a lot - on Russia's most popular music radio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCCYBMKdB0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCCYBMKdB0)

The Title :

I'm weak

( and what's wrong with that?)

It was written - for you ...  :D


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2017, 11:18:21 PM
Trench

This song is being played - a lot - on Russia's most popular music radio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCCYBMKdB0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCCYBMKdB0)

The Title :

I'm weak

( and what's wrong with that?)

It was written - for you ...  :D

Oooo that's bitchy Moby, you should wear your other half's underwear today ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2017, 11:29:40 PM

She seems to make little effort, and to be focused in what most women that age in her society are focused on..*what others (her peers )think*

She might mature out if that stage, and might not.

Unless you want a immature partner whose priorities are fretting the brand (or husband) she has is good enough to make her peers envious, rather than focusing on life, career, family, or children?

I wonder if you could well be right here Jumper, that she doesn't want me to visit because she doesn't want others to see me with her either because I'm a foreigner, older guy, not trendy to be seen with to her friends. In UK her friends will not be but then again she turns down options of other locations now as well. Quite possibly she just want immigration then move onto guy that suit her more, age wise, social adeptness wise, etc. Perhaps she is a little ashamed to be seen with me I don't know. Anyway she has not replied to my message for a number of days now. I don't see sufficient reason to chase her anymore, there are too many compatibility issues/red flags, call it what you will. I will get down to some work during this winter, get the money back in and myself sorted out in a position to go at this afresh in the Spring. I've learned a lot from this and think I am better prepared now for next time :D Next time I will get this right!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2017, 11:39:30 PM
Because in her culture, she is starting this at a late age.

I've heard this also, interesting you also concur, in the west as you no doubt now know many women leave it to into their thirties. So even though they can have women older in FSU it looks like they fret about it from a young age. I'm guessing because by the time a woman is in her mid to late twenties even all the decent men that she could have had are starting to go/have gone to other women. Hence as a woman gets into her thirties in Ukraine there are just the hobo's and the local drunks to chose from with little in the way of prospects or possibility of supporting a family.

In that case time for once is on my side (I never thought I would be saying that at my age, lol). I'll leave contacting her and see if she comes crawling back in time realizing that prospects for her are dwindling ;D In the meantime I'll enjoy myself seeing what else is out there :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 08, 2017, 12:26:33 AM
Perhaps she is a little ashamed to be seen with me I don't know.


Do you have a photo of you two together? We can give you an idea about that.


Anyway she has not replied to my message for a number of days now.


You should've done that first to see how bad she misses you. You may have turned her off with talk similar to what you've brought up here.

I don't see sufficient reason to chase her anymore, there are too many compatibility issues/red flags, call it what you will.


She may have seen too many red flags too. If you're putting out red flags, you need to figure out how to stop that otherwise the next girl will eventually drop you too.

I will get down to some work during this winter, get the money back in and myself sorted out in a position to go at this afresh in the Spring. I've learned a lot from this and think I am better prepared now for next time :D Next time I will get this right!


You won't have enough money to make another trip till Spring? That's a long time. Did you tell the girl you won't be able to see her for over half a year? If you're that tight on money to afford this adventure, it may be showing and penny pinching every step of the way will give the girls the impression you're a greedy man.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 08, 2017, 01:00:50 AM
Oooo that's bitchy Moby

More accurate than you can know, I suspect ;)

you should wear your other half's underwear today ;D

"What's underwear - she might say "? ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 08, 2017, 07:09:18 AM

(http://www.karpaty.info/data/transport/img/lviv/4.jpg)


Odd seeing the building again, if it was cleaned up it would be an interesting piece of architecture. I know some find this style ugly but if the windows were unified and the kiosks as well advertising removed. My guess this was the origional intent. It would be impressive, it also is quite functional.

Odd as you walk away after a LONG bus ride you can not see this, I remember seeing a building in Zhytomyr that looked ugly but in reality it was very pure modernist style. There are two hotels in Kiev that still stand and are in a way perfect examples of Soviet modern style. I want to say one is Dubrovnik and the other Concorde.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2017, 08:53:33 AM
Do you have a photo of you two together? We can give you an idea about that.


You should've done that first to see how bad she misses you. You may have turned her off with talk similar to what you've brought up here.

She may have seen too many red flags too. If you're putting out red flags, you need to figure out how to stop that otherwise the next girl will eventually drop you too.

You won't have enough money to make another trip till Spring? That's a long time. Did you tell the girl you won't be able to see her for over half a year? If you're that tight on money to afford this adventure, it may be showing and penny pinching every step of the way will give the girls the impression you're a greedy man.

In no way could I be described as a greedy man from the shopping spree that I endured, for sure some have been taken for far worse and if it was flagrant shopping scam I would have walked no matter what. It's not that I couldn't go before spring but that I want to be in a position to get it right. That means having all my finances in good shape and as best prepared as I can be. No more flying out for a brief trip for a week or so, I am planning to go native here.

I can't show you a photo as I want to keep anonymous and that stuff can now be looked up. Put it this way she looks a bit like Sarah Micheal Geller when she had dark brown hair. I am about 6ft tall, dark brown hair, full hair neatly trimmed, wear glasses, not overweight - I kind of look like a little shorter, little slimmer version of 2tallbill. I would say I'm attractive looking enough, no film star looks of course, and stuff I could improve on but not too bad. However, any girls that are conscious of their image, well I'm no socially slick guy and of course I'm a fair bit older than her and while not visibly greying at all or real old and wrinkly looking I'm not going to fool myself that the age difference will show a little. She says it doesn't bother her, but in her home town? That or it’s because I'm a foreigner perhaps? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 08, 2017, 11:11:19 AM
I obviously can't have real lengthy conversations with her particularly as she uses camera phone and connectivity is not good. We are unassumingly talking of real life situation here, normal people that have daily routines and can't sit around Skyping ever hour under the sun, some of us have to work you know ;D

Angel Eyes skyped with me most days using her smart phone (I bought it for her)
She would have held a coat hanger out the window with her toes in February to
get better reception if she thought it would work. She would wake up two hours
earlier so that she could talk to me in my evenings. She wanted contact with
me every single day. (She still does, if I go on a trip I do NOT forget to call her).

If there is a will, there is a way. Nobody is more creative finding a way than an
FSUW if she is interested in a man. Nobody has more excuses than an FSUW
who isn't

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 08, 2017, 11:16:08 AM
Angel Eyes skyped with me most days using her smart phone (I bought it for her)
She would have held a coat hanger out the window with her toes in February to
get better reception if she thought it would work. She would wake up two hours
earlier so that she could talk to me in my evenings. She wanted contact with
me every single day. (She still does, if I go on a trip I do NOT forget to call her).

Most of the former Soviet Union is switching to Viber - Skype seems to dying. (Microsoft at its finest?)  Viber does seem to work better on an Apple iPhone.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 08, 2017, 12:59:57 PM
Most of the former Soviet Union is switching to Viber - Skype seems to dying. (Microsoft at its finest?)  Viber does seem to work better on an Apple iPhone.

Does it ? !!!


Skype is FAR better for video calls - if you stay away from the latest MS 'update' on Android / Apple - hangs on to video longer   Viber and Whatsapp give up ealrlier



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 08, 2017, 03:17:42 PM
One of the Hotels I was thinking of from the Modern period is called Salut (Salute) built/designed as far as I can see in 1984, which makes it late. 

I can not find the other one but I think it was a Southern Slavic reference. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on August 08, 2017, 05:01:30 PM
Most of the former Soviet Union is switching to Viber - Skype seems to dying. (Microsoft at its finest?)  Viber does seem to work better on an Apple iPhone.

While I would agree with you, AV, I think WhatsApp has the least intrusive kernel for interactive video.  It is what PB and I use, even though we both have Viber.  Viber is a pig on my laptop.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 08, 2017, 05:10:09 PM
One of the Hotels I was thinking of from the Modern period is called Salut (Salute) built/designed as far as I can see in 1984, which makes it late. 

I can not find the other one but I think it was a Southern Slavic reference.


Started in 1976, finished in 1984.  It was solely for party members.  There was another one right beside it, also exclusively for party members.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 10, 2017, 11:47:01 AM
I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot
of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.

Twenty year old girls are like a bread cooked in the oven for 10 minutes.
On the outside it looks and smells very tasty, but the inside isn't finished
yet. 20 year old girls are more self centered, more naive and their decision
making processes are still developing and they have little real life experience
for making decisions.

I believe, if a girl is honest when she is twenty then likely she will be honest
when she is thirty, but will she like the same things at twenty vs thirty?
probably not, her tastes will continue to develop and evolve. That's why I
tell men (unless they are twenty themselves) to seek women who are at
least 25 but 30 is even better because they have a little bit of life experience.

Most 25 year old girls who were never married may have never lived outside
their parents home.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 19, 2017, 01:17:32 AM
Classic, Trench


A girl that speaks English well can more easily get a job in UK/US and if she is pretty and has good social skills may then be very exposed to guys that may be better looking, earn more & more exciting social life/socially skilled than you.

You see an apparent 'advantage' can quickly work out to be very detrimental.


This is why you WILL fail again- your own hangups.. you are FAR too insecure... 

Plenty of pretty ladies seek a confident man who is happy in his own skin...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 19, 2017, 04:43:56 AM
Classic, Trench



This is why you WILL fail again- your own hangups.. you are FAR too insecure... 

Plenty of pretty ladies seek a confident man who is happy in his own skin...

Initially yes, but remember Mobe the UK has a bigger shortage of hotties than it has a shortage of housing - a good way for Kyn to remember that one ;D

If Kyn goes for a girl who's a 10 or anywhere close and she's in her twenties she WILL have a load of guys chasing her if she goes anywhere near anywhere urban. I once knew a guy who went out with a hottie, he was confident and I would presume reasonably handsome. Every time he turned his back in a pub restaurant some geezer would be there chatting up his girl, whether he went up to order food or go for a pee. He then had the awkwardness off getting rid of the guy without creating a brawl.

Just last night as I drove down the hill where I live towards the town centre, a place full of young guys, many of them Jack the Lad types - Guys that are uber confident - why? Because they are pretty boys who are extrovert with naturally strong social skills and know if they will either have a load of women chase THEM the moment they walk into town/bar or they can quickly pull nearly any girl they wish. They spend an inordinate amount of time on grooming and going to the gym which I dont have and are quite possibly some rich kiddie. They are athletic looking with visible muscles especially the one I saw going down the hill while in my car. He was with his mates wearing a tight white t-shirt to show off his toned physic. Now remember it's chuffing freezing out there at the moment yet this guy heads into town in a t-shirt just to pull any girl he desires. Now I am 6ft tall and average body shape, not fat but athletic, I can talk to a girl fine and be happy in each others company. I'm guessing Kyn is not a lot different - but really though how long do you think either of us would last if we brought a hottie in her twenties back here and she saw all of that, particularly if she interacted with those guys at work or wherever. No I am not stupid enough to realise that we likely would not las long (and that is probably an understatement) before she dropped us. A girl in her thirties who was say a 6 or 7 maybe even an 8 here we could well hold onto. I'm a realist this is not being negative but saying 'ok it's natural to think I am the best/wonderful/believe in myself, after all it is me but nearly everyone does that, nearly everyone goes out there to win, most guys can get happily in a girls company, but am I really as good as I think I am' I may think we are happy in each others company but when you see how full on and quickly extrovert guys move in & entertain women then you realise that as wonderful as I am they would leave me and probably Kyn for dust, they would be racing away.

So back to the point Kyn made about a girl not speaking good English - well if she doesn't then she can't interact as well with other guys back here in UK, she also is unlikely to get a job, etc. By the time she figured out good English she could be pregnant with your kids Kyn in which case unless you're a real asshole to her she will almost certainly stick with you. I prefer women with good English but I would say it's easy to overlook the advantages of a disadvantage. After all who wants to do all the work getting & bringing home a FSW to be a George Mcfly and have some cock sure geezer start cutting in.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 19, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
Initially yes, but remember Mobe the UK has a bigger shortage of hotties than it has a shortage of housing

Utter twaddle, again .... Look - I CHOSE to find a FSU partner - having lived in Cyprus, learnt the lingo to a degree and customs .... There is no shortage of good UK divorcees ...


If Kyn goes for a girl who's a 10 or anywhere close and she's in her twenties she WILL have a load of guys chasing her if she goes anywhere near anywhere urban. I once knew a guy who went out with a hottie, he was confident and I would presume reasonably handsome. Every time he turned his back in a pub restaurant some geezer would be there chatting up his girl, whether he went up to order food or go for a pee. He then had the awkwardness off getting rid of the guy without creating a brawl.

 :ROFL:

Are you for real ? .... Look, SC is nearly 50 and gets chatted up by young studs half her age - who are FAR more handsome, fit and even might have more money ...   She stays on in Thailand when I'm working and 'gets offers' ...  She knows my ex-wife now lives 5 miles away - when I'm in the UK ...    I get more 'annoyed' by the stares she gets from other FSU women ...


So back to the point Kyn made about a girl not speaking good English - well if she doesn't then she can't interact as well with other guys back here in UK, she also is unlikely to get a job, etc. By the time she figured out good English she could be pregnant with your kids Kyn in which case unless you're a real asshole to her she will almost certainly stick with you. I prefer women with good English but I would say it's easy to overlook the advantages of a disadvantage. After all who wants to do all the work getting & bringing home a FSW to be a George Mcfly and have some cock sure geezer start cutting in.

OMG... do you REALLY believe getting pregant and having kids means a wife won't leave her husband ?

Do you think not speaking good English has been a barrier to guys getting into relationships and marrying ? 

Are you aware that to bring your wife to the UK she must be able to speak English to an acceptable level ?  ( Using the UK immigration route)

PLE-EASE, Trenchie...   STOP offering 'advice' when ALL it shows is your are in no position TO advise ...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 19, 2017, 03:13:57 PM
In part I agree Mobe, it's a long way to go to experience a lottery but that is what you get with talking beforehand in Skype - you cannot easily tell if there is attraction over Skype as you can in real life, it is essentially what it is, a series of moving picture frames, i.e frame rate. So it is like looking at  a girls photo and trying to tell if there would be natural chemistry

Deep breath ..and sighs ... 


Trouble with your experience is that it was absolutely the opposite with me...  After skyping SC - we got to the stage were we even agreed it was daft to book into another apartment for my first visit .... 

So, in my experience - you 'advice' - below - SUCKS.....   you  just didn't do 'due diligence'

I personally don't see myself going out to visit one again even with back ups. I would rather meet many since even skyping beforehand you are still essentially getting a blind date. The first girl I got on like a house on fire over Skype and we got on well during our dates but she was closed off and uninterested in any physical contact, the natural chemistry just was not there.

 :deadhorse:

As far ad Mila & Ed are concerned well Ed according to his website has a high record of success, one Mila as it sounds would be one for her to envy ;D

Any 'endorsement' or 'black mark' from the likes of you is not going to enhance / ruin someone's biz... 


No I think most people know a matchmaker cannot assure a match/success but I am dubious as to whether that is being aimed at here. I would have thought it to be elementary to facilitate more togetherness between a couple if the girl really did like the guy. After three meetings of both apparently liking each other and being there for the purpose of finding someone (supposedly) they were still at square one. Now apparently Ed charges a lot more than Mila but then again he is in the US where Mila is stuck out in Ukraine. As the article on rich Chinese going out to Ukraine highlighted it is possible to charge a lot out there but only if you have the girls available. This makes me wonder if Mila has much in the way of girls a viable or really knows how to go about this field after all her field of expertise is really as a terp. My thought is if Osis & others from what I have seen on here have the feeling that it's a path to avoid treading again then for many and indeed myself it is another avenue in which money and more importantly time & life chances could be wasted.

I'm just not the type that wants my hand holding and like to learn by my mistakes - but I can see such services being useful to a busy business man...   


I will tell you now Mobers I am just getting started on a whole new strategy for my next attempt at all of this and I'm pretty confident of a good outcome this time :D

Already given up on trying to date not too local UK lasses ? .....   

Really,  you need to smarten up your attitude and 'sense of humour', first... 

Don't think - even if we were invited - that SC needs to rush out and buy a new hat any times soon until you do take heed...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 19, 2017, 04:55:09 PM
Look who's back lol. Trench when's the last time you had a girlfriend, let alone a date.  Being serious.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Yes on November 20, 2017, 01:29:31 AM
Deep breath ..and sighs ... 


Trouble with your experience is that it was absolutely the opposite with me...  After skyping SC - we got to the stage were we even agreed it was daft to book into another apartment for my first visit .... 

So, in my experience - you 'advice' - below - SUCKS.....   you  just didn't do 'due diligence'
Why does his advice suck, because it doesn't correspond to yours?

His advice corresponds to mine when I first came here and I did just fine meeting ladies. "Due diligence" can work or not, it depends on many factors. That it worked for you doesn't mean it works across the board. His advice (mine also) worked just fine for me. Matter of fact, I was meeting girls daily back then.

Again, what he said is right as far as I'm concerned, yet your overemotional attacks persist. You may have more experience than he does, but I'll stack my experience to yours any day.

I have often said that the best way to be successful in this endeavor is to come, spend time on the ground and meet ladies naturally. Sure, you can establish contact beforehand, but it guarantees nothing. I used to come for a month at a time and had no problem meeting ladies in various cities in Russia without any prior contact. Some of whom would have married me had I gone down that road.

I will also say that there are as many, if not more, women willing to move country and marry a man they love (will eventually love) than at the height of the MOB era. I have no doubt about this. The only difference is that they don't belong to any MOB site.

@Trench,

You do, however, as many have pointed out, need to work on your self-confidence. You also need to understand that when you win a good woman's heart you will never have to worry whether she strays or not; she won't. You job after is only to continue to make her the most important person in your life.




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 20, 2017, 03:42:00 AM
Why does his advice suck, because it doesn't correspond to yours?


If you'd been reading the forum rather than trying to score points against mobe, you'd know that virtually every poster who is not living in Russia has said the same thing - get to know the women via skype.  Yes, it is imperfect, but a man won't be wasting time with a woman whose values/interests/temperament etc. are not what he is looking for, and vice versa.

Quote
@Trench,

You do, however, as many have pointed out, need to work on your self-confidence. You also need to understand that when you win a good woman's heart you will never have to worry whether she strays or not; she won't. You job after is only to continue to make her the most important person in your life.


He will never "get" that because of his attitude toward women, and that isn't going to change.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 20, 2017, 06:01:21 PM

If you'd been reading the forum rather than trying to score points against mobe, you'd know that virtually every poster who is not living in Russia has said the same thing - get to know the women via skype.  Yes, it is imperfect, but a man won't be wasting time with a woman whose values/interests/temperament etc. are not what he is looking for, and vice versa.


He will never "get" that because of his attitude toward women, and that isn't going to change.

I get what you & Mobe are saying that you know the girl is solid and can get on well together. Mobe for example was so solid that his girl let him stay at her place (presumably) rather than get an apartment. That's great, but he was still arriveing to a blind date even though they skyped a lot, there might have been no natural attraction. Now at his age Mobe is no doubt grateful for anyone to listen to his geriatric ramblings ;D whether she they turn out to be best mates or much more.

I do not find solid girls hard to meet through meet one method, yes my inexperience in international dating has led to a few miss-fires but I have learn't from that and now know what to look out for and how to go about matters, I'm not saying I'm an expert or won't make slip ups in future, but I'm pretty sure I've got a better grip at this FSU dating scene now. I would rather travel and find a girl FIRST where there was full on natural attraction/chemistry and do all the values/interests/temperament etc that I cannot see/assess online after. I'm a pretty easy going guy, for example I am not religious but if I girl I was into was then I would not have a beef with it, it would be up to her and I would let her please herself. I also realize that people don't see things as I do and I'm happy for them to be somewhat different - if it is vastly at odds like a material girl, then I am happy to look at options but in some cases no it may not work. That is a risk I am willing to take, I'm not looking for a perfect match I'm just looking for someone I can co-exist with and have a fulfilling relationship. Sure many people Skype first but why accept the default way as the only way. I have wasted much time in the past getting to know girls for it to not work out - that skype & messaging time is then wasted. It's not to say I didn't take some joy out of conversing with them but ultimately its wasted time. If I were to start messaging and Skyping girls now for example I would be starting down the same path and once on the railroad tracks as the say.... I would most probably end up at the same destination of random outcomes on meet with girl, no I just don't fancy doing that again. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 20, 2017, 06:58:14 PM
Why does his advice suck, because it doesn't correspond to yours?

Hello, Danchik... which of us is in an long term relationship - that includes you .....? ( QED)

His advice corresponds to mine when I first came here and I did just fine meeting ladies.
"Due diligence" can work or not, it depends on many factors. That it worked for you doesn't mean it works across the board. His advice (mine also) worked just fine for me. Matter of fact, I was meeting girls daily back then.

You are still 'meeting ladies' - and whilst this may be your choice - you seem to forget that Trenchcoat isn't 'on the ground'  -  that most guys conduct their 'due diligence' from afar

Again, what he said is right as far as I'm concerned, yet your overemotional attacks persist. You may have more experience than he does, but I'll stack my experience to yours any day.

Your 'experience' is serial dating - and whilst that might be your idea of 'success' - I've actually read Trench's posts and he has always made it clear that he seeks a LTR...  Most confident guys have no trouble getting dates in the west - or in Moscow.


I have often said that the best way to be successful in this endeavor is to come, spend time on the ground and meet ladies naturally. Sure, you can establish contact beforehand, but it guarantees nothing. I used to come for a month at a time and had no problem meeting ladies in various cities in Russia without any prior contact. Some of whom would have married me had I gone down that road.

Danchik, not many would disagree with you - re spending time on the ground being infinitely superior. Especially, if serial dating is your bag...

I will also say that there are as many, if not more, women willing to move country and marry a man they love (will eventually love) than at the height of the MOB era. I have no doubt about this. The only difference is that they don't belong to any MOB site.

Once again, agree and your advice below is sound.

@Trench,

You do, however, as many have pointed out, need to work on your self-confidence. You also need to understand that when you win a good woman's heart you will never have to worry whether she strays or not; she won't. You job after is only to continue to make her the most important person in your life.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 20, 2017, 08:40:45 PM
I get what you & Mobe are saying that you know the girl is solid and can get on well together.

No,  you didn't,  or you wouldn'the be posting daft like below...
Mobe for example was so solid that his girl let him stay at her place (presumably) rather than get an apartment. That's great, but he was still arriveing to a blind date even though they skyped a lot, there might have been no natural attraction.

You confused my point that the likes of Skype can be a great pre meeting in reality tool with the trust built up in a monogamous relationship.. ((

IF you took the time to read, properly..you'd realise there was no 'presumably' ....we just knew that my staying in another apartment to court the only woman I had come to meet was pointless. ...


Now at his age Mobe is no doubt grateful for anyone to listen to his geriatric ramblings ;D whether she they turn out to be best mates or much more.

Remind us, which of us is 'theorising' while the other lives the dream ? ;)

I do not find solid girls hard to meet through meet one method, yes my inexperience in international dating has led to a few miss-fires but I have learn't from that

I see no evidence of  either of your assertions in the above sentence based on your own posts.....

Below, you are simply theorising, again ...whilst trying to be some sort of devil's advocate? !....

That is a risk I am willing to take, I'm not looking for a perfect match I'm just looking for someone I can co-exist with and have a fulfilling relationship. Sure many people Skype first but why accept the default way as the only way. I have wasted much time in the past getting to know girls for it to not work out - that skype & messaging time is then wasted. It's not to say I didn't take some joy out of conversing with them but ultimately its wasted time. If I were to start messaging and Skyping girls now for example I would be starting down the same path and once on the railroad tracks as the say.... I would most probably end up at the same destination of random outcomes on meet with girl, no I just don't fancy doing that again.

Your time wasn't wasted...you just haven't  taken on board your mistakes...

We all make mistakes and I have made some howlers..the trick is to learn to listen to good advice ..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 21, 2017, 09:29:35 AM
You confused my point that the likes of Skype can be a great pre meeting in reality tool with the trust built up in a monogamous relationship.. ((

Remind us, which of us is 'theorising' while the other lives the dream ? ;)

Your time wasn't wasted...you just haven't  taken on board your mistakes...

I disagree, from what I have seen whatever you gain with Skype Pre meeting comes with the cost off some negatives, mostly though that you end up putting all your eggs in one basket, you get stuck on the one girl (ok some may skype with several but they must have loads of time on their hands). You've then set yourself on the narrow railroad track towards meeting that one girl all because you wanted to Skype beforehand and see what she is like. I would prefer having had that experience to hold off on finding what she is like to meeting in person, only message her when in or imminently near time of being in country and be able to meet many. That way I can find out what many girls are like. I usually have an idea off what they are like from their profile and am happy to find out the rest on meeting as long as I take into account possible no-shows, don't get on, dates falling through, etc. and can bring up more women with plenty of time on hand to do so.

I've taken on board my previous mistakes and advice on this board and am moving forward. I'm not going out there until the new year, probably March/April time as its bloody cold out there now :o But I'm confident that when I do I will have a good result :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 21, 2017, 01:21:07 PM
I disagree, from what I have seen whatever you gain with Skype Pre meeting comes with the cost off some negatives, mostly though that you end up putting all your eggs in one basket, you get stuck on the one girl (ok some may skype with several but they must have loads of time on their hands).

 :deadhorse:

Your horse is 'dead' because when lead to water  - it wouldn't drink - Like it's owner - it will never learn ((

You can 'disagree' all you like - I think you have more chance of winning the jack-pot at lotto ... 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 21, 2017, 08:52:28 PM
Trench you are overthinking it with Skype.  Better to talk to them first to build rapport.  Sure I've met girls that turned out different in person from how they are on Skype, but building that connection counts.  You are far more likely to have a girl flake on you if all that you have done is exchange a few messages.

You don't seem to have much luck either way, maybe look in the mirror and see what you need to work on to be attractive to a woman first.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on November 26, 2017, 04:40:05 PM
Utter twaddle, again .... Look - I CHOSE to find a FSU partner - having lived in Cyprus, learnt the lingo to a degree and customs .... There is no shortage of good UK divorcees ...

 :ROFL:

Are you for real ? .... Look, SC is nearly 50 and gets chatted up by young studs half her age - who are FAR more handsome, fit and even might have more money ...   She stays on in Thailand when I'm working and 'gets offers' ...  She knows my ex-wife now lives 5 miles away - when I'm in the UK ...    I get more 'annoyed' by the stares she gets from other FSU women ...


OMG... do you REALLY believe getting pregant and having kids means a wife won't leave her husband ?

Do you think not speaking good English has been a barrier to guys getting into relationships and marrying ? 

Are you aware that to bring your wife to the UK she must be able to speak English to an acceptable level ?  ( Using the UK immigration route)

PLE-EASE, Trenchie...   STOP offering 'advice' when ALL it shows is your are in no position TO advise ...

TC, why on earth do you think this way?

Do you truly believe that to a normal woman in a good stable caring  relationship with a man she loves and admires, the  surrounding options are what  decides if she drops him?

Would you drop your wife, if some random hottie was available?

Relationships and marriages fail for a million reasons, but if you sweat the competition,  then it's a mental state of low self esteem, suppressed jealousy,  or any number if things that will certainly sour most any relationship over time.

Until you get past this thinking , you really will have a hard go of it. Women easily spot and sense things like that and it's  a huge turn off. One of the biggest.

I have no idea why my wife adores me,  but she does.
I never worry about other men,ever,  there is always someone more charming ,more handsome, more wealthy,  smarter, etc
If our relationship and marriage isn't a strong enough bond, that the mere existence of someone who *might* be a better match breaks it,then it wasn't much to begin with.

You really really need  to get past that thinking and mentality. It's extremely detrimental to any relationship.

I have never dated an insecure or overly jealous woman for that very reason. Its one of the worst traits to be involved with, and I don't need that in my life.
Most women, regardless nationality , feel the same way.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on November 26, 2017, 06:52:08 PM
I disagree, from what I have seen whatever you gain with Skype
Pre meeting comes with the cost off some negatives, mostly though
that you end up putting all your eggs in one basket,

NOTE: I am using the word Skype generically instead of messenger or
webcam chat etc. 

If you plan on meeting more than one girl then I agree don't Skype at
all until after you meet. All you want is an introduction letter, answer
a couple questions and get a meeting.

If you are going to meet one girl then Skype (or other messenger)
is a great tool, it's a force multiplier. You can read a girls eyes when
you are talking to her. If she seems bored then you are chasing the
wrong girl. You want an interested girl. You could never determine
this exchanging letters.

A girl can say anything in a letter true or false. Most girls aren't
very good saying false things in another language, it will usually
show on their face. 80% of communication is nonverbal. Think about
that for a minute. What they say is less important than how they say
it. Why would anyone throw away 80% of communication out the
window?

I think, I know the answer. If you aren't using it, it's because you don't
have the confidence in your ability to banter, make small talk etc*. It's
a learned trait. You can spend 5 minutes crafting a sentence to answer
a question, but you pretty much have to do it on the spot during a
messenger type call.

*Bantering 101: How to talk to pretty girls without puking on your shoes. 
1. Always have a small 30-60 second conversation figured out ahead
of time. Example: I saw your profile, liked your smile and thought I better
get hold of this girl before everybody else does. Yada, yada.

2. Always have some prepared questions. Do you want kids, what
things do you like to do in your spare time? How do I know you won't
try to make me eat holodetz? blah, blah, blah 

3. Limit the conversation to so many minutes. Decide if you want to see
this girl on Skype again or not.

4. If you want to see her again, tell her you have to go but that you want
to see her again and nail down a time and date. Get her phone number if
something comes up. Send her an SMS telling her you liked her
voice/accent/eyes/cute personality/bubbly laugh etc (don't say tits on the
first call even if they are truly spectacular)

5. If you run into a brain fart or can't think of something to say then turn it
around immediately. Say something like "You are so pretty, that I totally forgot
what I was going to say." "You make me feel like a schoolboy again" How is it
possible that you aren't married?!? are all the men in your city blind? etc.

You can also unplug the mike or the camera. Then fumble around hooking it
back up. Then ask what were we talking about? Oh yes, I remember we were
talking about how loud you are during sex and how thick the walls need to be.

Those will get you a shy smile 95% of the time and you've turned it completely
around from a negative to a positive.

80% of the girls I Skyped with, I did only once. I decided it wasn't worth my
time to continue. I was only interested in an exceptional girl, so all the so-so
girls got sent to find their love interest elsewhere. One mans coal is another
mans diamond. Lather, rinse and repeat. Don't hang on to a girl just because
she is hot!!! Never compromise on character.

You will get better and better at this with practice.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boomstick77 on November 27, 2017, 09:29:08 AM
Jumper I would say your wrong and many psychologists are a sham with their theories on when they say that jealousy and possessiveness Is destructive. That's where most people are incorrect about jealousy and possessiveness when it comes to a wife or a girlfriend. I think it's wonderful when girls get that way because it means you've displayed high level value and you set the standard that no man can match you. All other men cease to exist. They don't want to share you with anyone and who could blame them. Your everything they want in a man. They don't want any other girl even look at you.  I have seen many women that my friends have dated and that their woman supposedly trusts them if they go to the bar or show up late getting home, etc. It's because it's simple. She just doesn't love you as much as you think or she would want to do everything with you instead. Sure everyone needs their space but most women are like pack animals. They will go and follow wherever the leader takes them. they want to be with them always. One of the many examples with my wife was going to get her nails done and I just wanted to get wasted at a pub while waiting for her. So when she was getting up to go. She gave me my passport and her extra cellphone just to stay in touch. As soon as she started walking next door to the nail salon. The waitress walks instantly up to my table and says.. "so it didn't work out"... I was like huh? She seen my passport and said...Oh your from Canada and sat down at my table and started small talk. My wife turned around to wave at me and instantly seen what was transpiring and I laughed but her eyes turned almost satanic and she started coming back. As soon as she got to the table she said hello and that waitress made her exit quick and my wife said...I can't leave you for 2 minutes without some girl hitting on you. Then the next day she had an appointment for her hair because they have some crazy month or star days superstition just for haircuts... so I just said I'll bring my Nintendo switch to a pub and enjoy some booze and gaming. She then asked me how about I stay at the apartment because I have internet, we can go buy you beers and bring them here and if you go to a pub they might try and rip you off because your a Foreign. I just said that I won't pay the bill till you get done. When I got to the pub and we both sat down she said are you sure your not going to meet anyone If they flirt with you. I laughed and said never.  But that's fantastic as it displays massive levels of value because other women have taking notice too so they want in on the action. That's why women who have friends usually don't realize that their friends is their worst enemy. If they see that a man is good to their friend that they are dating and they are always having fun. Their friend the majority of the time try and seduce him covertly. I've experienced it many times in the past. The worst part is..your girl will say..ohh they are just flirty like that. I think if I wasn't such a good guy I would be able to take advantage of that situation and show you that they aren't flirting because they are just that way...they are trying to steal me away from you. But That's why the majority of Ukrainian and Russian women have no friends. They know even their own best friend would steal their man if they had a chance. Hell even their single mother would try to steal their daughters man if they had the chance. Russian and Ukrainian women are incredibly jealous and possessive girls but don't mistake it for insecurity. It means they want you all to themselves. What's so bad about that. I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with. It takes a whole 2 minutes to reassure them that you are into them always. Plus they do everything and I mean everything for you. Plus when they sexy and hot. Well...it's just the best.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on November 27, 2017, 09:40:55 AM
I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with.



There are people like yourself, men and women, that enjoy being with a jealous and possessive partner but Jumper is also correct that that for many, it can be destructive to the relationship.


I got men putting flowers and candy on my wife's car. Lots of guys want to introduce themselves to her. Some guys start a conversation saying she looks like Taylor Swift or ask if she does modelling. A cop got her license plate number and called her up. Surely he seen my name on the car title too but still made the call. I know a lot of guys look at my wife's ass. Not once did I feel like kicking ass to get guys to back off or getting the cop fired. I am not jealous or possessive or afraid my wife will leave me. She wouldn't like it if I were jealous and possessive. All women in my life are free to come and go as they please. There's always another woman out there for me but whoever is in my life, I take good care of them and I suspect that is why I'm an attractive man to women. By taking care of them, I don't mean just by financial means.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 27, 2017, 01:50:25 PM
Jumper I would say your wrong and many psychologists are a sham with their theories on when they say that jealousy and possessiveness Is destructive. That's where most people are incorrect about jealousy and possessiveness when it comes to a wife or a girlfriend. I think it's wonderful when girls get that way because it means you've displayed high level value and you set the standard that no man can match you. All other men cease to exist. They don't want to share you with anyone and who could blame them. Your everything they want in a man. They don't want any other girl even look at you.  I have seen many women that my friends have dated and that their woman supposedly trusts them if they go to the bar or show up late getting home, etc. It's because it's simple. She just doesn't love you as much as you think or she would want to do everything with you instead. Sure everyone needs their space but most women are like pack animals. They will go and follow wherever the leader takes them. they want to be with them always. One of the many examples with my wife was going to get her nails done and I just wanted to get wasted at a pub while waiting for her. So when she was getting up to go. She gave me my passport and her extra cellphone just to stay in touch. As soon as she started walking next door to the nail salon. The waitress walks instantly up to my table and says.. "so it didn't work out"... I was like huh? She seen my passport and said...Oh your from Canada and sat down at my table and started small talk. My wife turned around to wave at me and instantly seen what was transpiring and I laughed but her eyes turned almost satanic and she started coming back. As soon as she got to the table she said hello and that waitress made her exit quick and my wife said...I can't leave you for 2 minutes without some girl hitting on you. Then the next day she had an appointment for her hair because they have some crazy month or star days superstition just for haircuts... so I just said I'll bring my Nintendo switch to a pub and enjoy some booze and gaming. She then asked me how about I stay at the apartment because I have internet, we can go buy you beers and bring them here and if you go to a pub they might try and rip you off because your a Foreign. I just said that I won't pay the bill till you get done. When I got to the pub and we both sat down she said are you sure your not going to meet anyone If they flirt with you. I laughed and said never.  But that's fantastic as it displays massive levels of value because other women have taking notice too so they want in on the action. That's why women who have friends usually don't realize that their friends is their worst enemy. If they see that a man is good to their friend that they are dating and they are always having fun. Their friend the majority of the time try and seduce him covertly. I've experienced it many times in the past. The worst part is..your girl will say..ohh they are just flirty like that. I think if I wasn't such a good guy I would be able to take advantage of that situation and show you that they aren't flirting because they are just that way...they are trying to steal me away from you. But That's why the majority of Ukrainian and Russian women have no friends. They know even their own best friend would steal their man if they had a chance. Hell even their single mother would try to steal their daughters man if they had the chance. Russian and Ukrainian women are incredibly jealous and possessive girls but don't mistake it for insecurity. It means they want you all to themselves. What's so bad about that. I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with. It takes a whole 2 minutes to reassure them that you are into them always. Plus they do everything and I mean everything for you. Plus when they sexy and hot. Well...it's just the best.


Feeding on someone's emotions, or playing them, is a sign of obscurity.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on November 27, 2017, 03:23:10 PM
That's where most people are incorrect about jealousy and possessiveness when it comes to a wife or a girlfriend. I think it's wonderful when girls get that way because it means you've displayed high level value and you set the standard that no man can match you. All other men cease to exist. They don't want to share you with anyone and who could blame them.

Not all other men---- but -- all other women !
Women going near "her" man -- are excluded.
Jealousy is not healthy  nor "possessiveness" --it shows insecurity.
As for most of your post --  you are right at home here with a lot of our other misfits.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2017, 05:44:27 PM

Jumper I would say your wrong and many psychologists are a sham with their theories on when they say that jealousy and possessiveness Is destructive. That's where most people are incorrect about jealousy and possessiveness when it comes to a wife or a girlfriend. I think it's wonderful when girls get that way because it means you've displayed high level value and you set the standard that no man can match you. All other men cease to exist. They don't want to share you with anyone and who could blame them. Your everything they want in a man. They don't want any other girl even look at you.  I have seen many women that my friends have dated and that their woman supposedly trusts them if they go to the bar or show up late getting home, etc. It's because it's simple. She just doesn't love you as much as you think or she would want to do everything with you instead. Sure everyone needs their space but most women are like pack animals. They will go and follow wherever the leader takes them. they want to be with them always.

One of the many examples with my wife was going to get her nails done and I just wanted to get wasted at a pub while waiting for her. So when she was getting up to go. She gave me my passport and her extra cellphone just to stay in touch. As soon as she started walking next door to the nail salon. The waitress walks instantly up to my table and says.. "so it didn't work out"... I was like huh? She seen my passport and said...Oh your from Canada and sat down at my table and started small talk. My wife turned around to wave at me and instantly seen what was transpiring and I laughed but her eyes turned almost satanic and she started coming back. As soon as she got to the table she said hello and that waitress made her exit quick and my wife said...I can't leave you for 2 minutes without some girl hitting on you. Then the next day she had an appointment for her hair because they have some crazy month or star days superstition just for haircuts... so I just said I'll bring my Nintendo switch to a pub and enjoy some booze and gaming. She then asked me how about I stay at the apartment because I have internet, we can go buy you beers and bring them here and if you go to a pub they might try and rip you off because your a Foreign. I just said that I won't pay the bill till you get done. When I got to the pub and we both sat down she said are you sure your not going to meet anyone If they flirt with you. I laughed and said never.  But that's fantastic as it displays massive levels of value because other women have taking notice too so they want in on the action.

That's why women who have friends usually don't realize that their friends is their worst enemy. If they see that a man is good to their friend that they are dating and they are always having fun. Their friend the majority of the time try and seduce him covertly. I've experienced it many times in the past. The worst part is..your girl will say..ohh they are just flirty like that. I think if I wasn't such a good guy I would be able to take advantage of that situation and show you that they aren't flirting because they are just that way...they are trying to steal me away from you. But That's why the majority of Ukrainian and Russian women have no friends. They know even their own best friend would steal their man if they had a chance. Hell even their single mother would try to steal their daughters man if they had the chance. Russian and Ukrainian women are incredibly jealous and possessive girls but don't mistake it for insecurity. It means they want you all to themselves. What's so bad about that. I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with. It takes a whole 2 minutes to reassure them that you are into them always. Plus they do everything and I mean everything for you. Plus when they sexy and hot. Well...it's just the best.

For the love of god, write in short paragraphs, split it up so it makes what you've written actually manageable to read, like I have done here for you ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2017, 06:14:06 PM

There are people like yourself, men and women, that enjoy being with a jealous and possessive partner but Jumper is also correct that that for many, it can be destructive to the relationship.


I got men putting flowers and candy on my wife's car. Lots of guys want to introduce themselves to her. Some guys start a conversation saying she looks like Taylor Swift or ask if she does modelling. A cop got her license plate number and called her up. Surely he seen my name on the car title too but still made the call. I know a lot of guys look at my wife's ass. Not once did I feel like kicking ass to get guys to back off or getting the cop fired. I am not jealous or possessive or afraid my wife will leave me. She wouldn't like it if I were jealous and possessive. All women in my life are free to come and go as they please. There's always another woman out there for me but whoever is in my life, I take good care of them and I suspect that is why I'm an attractive man to women. By taking care of them, I don't mean just by financial means.

I get the impression you're quite a canny operator BillyB and your wife probably knows while she could cross you, you would almost certainly get the upper hand. Besides, if a woman has kids then as we know most FSW are very loyal to their children and if you're providing/doing a decent job as father then she is unlikely to leave, job done ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 27, 2017, 06:34:55 PM
Quote
if a woman has kids then as we know most FSW are very loyal to their children and if you're providing/doing a decent job as father then she is unlikely to leave


I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head that disprove your theory.  Including Billy's first Ukrainian wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2017, 06:45:41 PM
NOTE: I am using the word Skype generically instead of messenger or
webcam chat etc. 

If you plan on meeting more than one girl then I agree don't Skype at
all until after you meet. All you want is an introduction letter, answer
a couple questions and get a meeting.


If you are going to meet one girl then Skype (or other messenger)
is a great tool, it's a force multiplier. You can read a girls eyes when
you are talking to her. If she seems bored then you are chasing the
wrong girl. You want an interested girl. You could never determine
this exchanging letters.

A girl can say anything in a letter true or false. Most girls aren't
very good saying false things in another language, it will usually
show on their face. 80% of communication is nonverbal. Think about
that for a minute. What they say is less important than how they say
it. Why would anyone throw away 80% of communication out the
window?

I think, I know the answer. If you aren't using it, it's because you don't
have the confidence in your ability to banter, make small talk etc*. It's
a learned trait. You can spend 5 minutes crafting a sentence to answer
a question, but you pretty much have to do it on the spot during a
messenger type call.

*Bantering 101: How to talk to pretty girls without puking on your shoes. 
1. Always have a small 30-60 second conversation figured out ahead
of time. Example: I saw your profile, liked your smile and thought I better
get hold of this girl before everybody else does. Yada, yada.

2. Always have some prepared questions. Do you want kids, what
things do you like to do in your spare time? How do I know you won't
try to make me eat holodetz? blah, blah, blah 

3. Limit the conversation to so many minutes. Decide if you want to see
this girl on Skype again or not.

4. If you want to see her again, tell her you have to go but that you want
to see her again and nail down a time and date. Get her phone number if
something comes up. Send her an SMS telling her you liked her
voice/accent/eyes/cute personality/bubbly laugh etc (don't say tits on the
first call even if they are truly spectacular)

5. If you run into a brain fart or can't think of something to say then turn it
around immediately. Say something like "You are so pretty, that I totally forgot
what I was going to say." "You make me feel like a schoolboy again" How is it
possible that you aren't married?!? are all the men in your city blind? etc.

You can also unplug the mike or the camera. Then fumble around hooking it
back up. Then ask what were we talking about? Oh yes, I remember we were
talking about how loud you are during sex and how thick the walls need to be.

Those will get you a shy smile 95% of the time and you've turned it completely
around from a negative to a positive.

80% of the girls I Skyped with, I did only once. I decided it wasn't worth my
time to continue. I was only interested in an exceptional girl, so all the so-so
girls got sent to find their love interest elsewhere. One mans coal is another
mans diamond. Lather, rinse and repeat. Don't hang on to a girl just because
she is hot!!! Never compromise on character.

You will get better and better at this with practice.

Udachi!

Bill

Well you're right Bill, I'm glad you agree that not Skyping is best when visiting many which is what I intend to do. This made sense to me also from my experience - I just don't have loads off free time to constantly Skype with woman. Plus I would prefer to meet in person. The last girl I was picking up a fair bit of non-verbal communication on Skype that she was attracted to me, whether it was genuine its perhaps harder to tell on Skype. Even during meeting I am not sure whether her interest was sincere or there to drive towards purpose of immigration visa, etc. Had I the experience I gained (& stuff learned from you guys on here ;) ) from that and the situation cropped up again I know how to handle it better.

Skype can be a pain, the reception is rarely as good in real life, the girl I was with had poor reception so even non-verbal communication though there well is kind of better to see in person I feel. Normally, with Skype I had a folded A4 sheet of paper with a load of short questions in block capitals to ask. I found with the first girl who had near perfect English this was  more of a fall back as we got chatting away and one topic lead onto another and time passed with ease - so she was easy to get on with but no chemistry, huh. The last girl her English was not that good - it improved by the end of the second (holiday) meet but on Skype I had to rely on the question sheet a lot. Some questions I even had to jump as she could not really understand them despite being reasonably straight forward. Responses tended to be fairly short as well. She also did not ask a lot of questions, again because of her poor English I believe. This mean't I often whipped through the question sheet quite fast and it only just about made do for the 15min to half hour we were on Skype. After that if she did not need to finish I often finished with some excuse as I had run out of stuff to say. She seemed to like Skyping with me though and I can see why some guys only go for good speaking English FSW but it kinds of cuts out girls where there can be the all important chemistry so I accept the negatives in favour of the positives.

I also spoke to another girl on Skype nearly 2 years back now - there was no chemistry and her English was not good either, it was an awkward session only interrupted by her cat intruding which was a thankful godsend since it was the only part of the session where I saw any emotion. Well I chose not to Skype with her again. I think you're right, banter I could do with improving so its not just an interview session, with poor level English FSW though much of this would be lost cause, short questions they may get anything else as I found will fall by unnoticed only to be met with a confused look.

Yeah to be sure I think I would really rather give meeting many a go and get a better first impression without the disembodied feeling I get on Skype. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 27, 2017, 06:46:43 PM

I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head that disprove your theory.  Including Billy's first Ukrainian wife.

He had a first wife!? What happened there?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on November 27, 2017, 07:42:45 PM
He had a first wife!? What happened there?

He probably couldn't find the model wife in the SeaPigeon land he lives in. ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on November 27, 2017, 10:02:56 PM
Quote from: boomstick
I think women that are jealous and possessive tend to be the best types of girls to be with. It takes a whole 2 minutes to reassure them that you are into them always. Plus they do everything and I mean everything for you. Plus when they sexy and hot. Well...it's just the best.


Plenty of completely secure women will do everything for a man they love.
That's not some trait only jealous possesive  women have.

If it only takes 2 minutes to reassure some jealous possessive women,that all is fine in the relationship,  she isn't nearly as jealous or possesive as I was referring too.
Yes those types can tend to be more  wild in bed,  but again they have no monopoly on that, and the rest of their drama isn't worth dealing with.

A hint of jealousy is likely normal, that's not what I was talking about.

As far as spending time together, or apart, that's never been an issue with anyone I've been with.
It would be a problem  with a truly jealous person.

For the record I love spending time with my wife and children, I have a lot of hobbies and interests,  but prefer to spend as much time with the family as I can. Clubs and such bored me to death in my twenties,I sure don't find them of any interest now, everyone has their priorities, mine are with my wife and kids.


TC has insecure traits seeming  a tad controlling,  , yet fears a hot babe will leave him for the first handsome guy with a wad of cash.
 .
That kind of controlling, insecure behaviour and thinking  is a self fullfilling prophesy .
It drives people away.

Then he will say, to himself, see? That's how women are.
In a circle of behaviour that causes a given outcome,  while confirming his preconceived notions , and would be hard to break out of.

I'm not saying he is doomed to that, it's just an easy thing to fall into, and I hope mentioning it makes him step back to evaluate if that might be something that occurs in his life.


 TC's self admitted  insecurities would  turn off most of the women i know.I'm trying to help him see that confidence is the key.
 
He has gotten a lot of advice on how to improve it, so I hope he tries it out.
Posting things like he did above, shows he still sweats some muscled local guy easily  swiping some woman he has a relationship with and brings to the UK.
That's not the mentality he needs to go into any relationship with,  much less a cross cultural, long distance one.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 28, 2017, 08:12:58 AM


Skype can be a pain,

Yeah to be sure I think I would really rather give meeting many a go and get a better first impression without the disembodied feeling I get on Skype.

Trench, Skype isn't a means to interview girls..lol...i can imagine you with your piece of paper running through all the questions you have. is this how you talk to women in general?  And "chemistry" is not based via a video chat....you need to meet them in person to determine that.  also, it takes more than 1 conversation. you don't make friends at home like that, it usually takes time.

what happened to your self imposed sabbatical here?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on November 28, 2017, 08:30:11 AM
You have very interesting views Trench though we do disagree on certain issues especially parts of our dating methodology. :D I thought I'll add my own questions and perspectives on them.

I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.

Hmm, perhaps this happens faster for FSU folks. IMO from observations, more like 30 for the majority of people, at least in the UK. After 30, your views are usually more or less set for life. Of course it doesn't apply to those "chameleons" who are keen life-long adapters/learners with open minds though it gets harder with age. You'll be surprised how plastic the human brain can be.

Eg. I used to think three course meals etc were silly old aristocratic relics of the past, but now after a few years of fine dining experience with my professors and other academic staff, my own self would think otherwise today.

I've heard this also, interesting you also concur, in the west as you no doubt now know many women leave it to into their thirties.

This exactly!  :clapping: Is what partly persuaded me to venture far and away into the FSU to find future wife! ;) Hoping to get married and settled by 28 at the very latest. Then again, you never know what the future holds :P

Personally I would prefer good English but ahead of that I would want to see natural chemistry through quick successive eye movement and vibe of excitement as my main priority. If we are into each other then we can work through other issues as long as she is willing.

IMO I still think chemistry is over-rated really. Case in point: Who is to say you won't "grow to love her" like my grandpa's case?
http://www.livescience.com/56269-animal-sex-giant-pandas.html
If pandas can grow to adore each other through the mating process in captivity enough to facilitate reproduction, I very much doubt humans as fellow mammals are much different given a lack of choice.  :popcorn:

In part I agree Mobe, it's a long way to go to experience a lottery but that is what you get with talking beforehand in Skype - you cannot easily tell if there is attraction over Skype as you can in real life, it is essentially what it is, a series of moving picture frames, i.e frame rate. So it is like looking at  a girls photo and trying to tell if there would be natural chemistry - I tried this with the second girl I went to meet and it did not go well as you know.

I personally don't see myself going out to visit one again even with back ups. I would rather meet many since even skyping beforehand you are still essentially getting a blind date. The first girl I got on like a house on fire over Skype and we got on well during our dates but she was closed off and uninterested in any physical contact, the natural chemistry just was not there. It's kind of pointless spending loaf's of time on messaging and Skype to keep hitting this problem, arriving and wanting to make it work with a girl that doesn't want it. It's not good for her or me.

Again, I just think the whole chemistry thing is over-rated imo. I think no one is saying Skype is the be all and end all and skype like all tools for communication is just a tool and its effectiveness really depends on how it's used.

Here, I would beg to differ as I have found girls' personalities that I have met in person to be more or less what I have expected from prior skype sessions though these were all girls in the uk with no significant cultural differences with the exception of one Muscovite FSU with a good command of english. If I were to guess, I think perhaps part of the potential problem lies somewhere in the communication approach used on Skype before the meet.

It's probably fair to say there are many ways to go about this but I thought I'll share what I do with Skype. Sometimes I would video-call (Skype) her at a short moments notice on evenings so that she'll most likely be caught off guard then proceed to have a serious talk about life, philosophies, etc you name it. If she refuses to pick up these spontaneous calls more than 4-5 times, then I drop her and move on even if she is a 10/10. No exceptions. If she can't make time for me in the evening, I doubt she'll make time for me even if we get married. Then there are times where I'll sing a song for her  :rolleyes: all of a sudden during the session all the while keeping an eye on her subtle mannerisms (giggles? fidgeting? spacing out? staring at phone? etc etc) Anything to nudge her out of her comfort zone and see how she reacted and answered.

I'm curious as to how your Skype sessions usually take place Trench? I have no doubt there'll be much I can learn from the shared experience.  :popcorn:

There are up & downsides to girls that know English well and those that don't. A girl that speaks English well can more easily get a job in UK/US and if she is pretty and has good social skills may then be very exposed to guys that may be better looking, earn more & more exciting social life/socially skilled than you. Even if she is facing deportation if she leaves you all she needs is an email address or mobile number of the guy and he can happily sort out marriage of himself to her knowing you have done all the donkey work unrewarded of finding her for him.

You see an apparent 'advantage' can quickly work out to be very detrimental.

Well eventually she's going to become "British" innit? Could be within months, years or decades. Doesn't matter the timeframe. Even if she gets pregnant years down the road, it's still possible she can still divorce then, get half and leave child custody to you? :-\

Eddie Murphy seems to have a point here among the slur of "bad words"  :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts4sEBb2K3s

Ultimately, I think we can do all the due diligence and checks we want in order to minimize the chances of undesired results but there's always a chance things might turn out different. Maybe she changed her mind and decides to not have kids? Maybe she suddenly decided to not leave the FSU? Or perhaps living in the UK turns her into a materialistic woman?  :-\ Anything's possible but it doesn't mean there's a high probability that it will definitely happen. I like adventure!  :P and this quote from fellow poster comes up again "Paranoia will Destroya"  :devil:  >:(

 :D On a side note, Trench if you're still seriously planning a trip to Moscow during springtime, I suggest you try to book tickets now and tackle the visa later.  :D I just got return flights on KLM from London to Moscow for £112 GBP , in-flight meals and checked baggage inclusive woohoo! 8) Not sharing the news with my Muscovite lass yet. RWD came first :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on November 28, 2017, 11:47:53 AM


I've heard from about the age of 20 a person's personality is set for life, but no doubt a lot of it is earlier anyway possibly person dependent also.

Better re-check on this.  You are off by 15 years or so.

Many studies have indicated personality is set by age 5-6.
Very unfair, I think; but it's true.

Ideas and beliefs may change, but apparently not personality.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 28, 2017, 12:23:29 PM
Trench, Skype isn't a means to interview girls..lol...i can imagine you with your piece of paper running through all the questions you have. is this how you talk to women in general?  And "chemistry" is not based via a video chat....you need to meet them in person to determine that.  also, it takes more than 1 conversation. you don't make friends at home like that, it usually takes time.

what happened to your self imposed sabbatical here?

Ah, my self imposed sabbatical, that got a reprieve when I realised I'm still too far away from my planned trip to FSU next year. Essentially I did not want to get drawn off track again by messaging women and despite feeling the pain off not being able to get out there for a while knew I needed to be disciplined in this search to improve my chances off success. I am preparing now though for my trip out there next year. I know "chemistry" is not based via a video chat, that I need to meet them in person. that is entirely the point I am trying to make.

I know also it takes more than one conversation, what I am saying is that while I do not wish to 'interview' the girl, if she has poor English then there is no other way. Otherwise there is just awkward silence & glances with you looking at each other. The girl often expects the guy to carry the conversation in these instances, I can't rattle on relentlessly so questions are the only thing left to avoid a rather embarrassing period. How have you got on with Skyping with girls Sting?

The girl I never Skyped for a second time well, I don't think it was just her English that was poor but also her social skills. I think she lacked the ability to partake in conversation easily. She stated in her profile she liked to collect perfumes, when I asked her which ones she seemed to have little to say on the subject, just a king of 'perfumes in general' response. Other questions gave equally little material to work with and it was only the appearance of the cat where it at all picked up. Generally though she was a no go, probably why she was still single in her mid thirties.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 28, 2017, 12:50:05 PM
You have very interesting views Trench though we do disagree on certain issues especially parts of our dating methodology. :D I thought I'll add my own questions and perspectives on them.

Hmm, perhaps this happens faster for FSU folks. IMO from observations, more like 30 for the majority of people, at least in the UK. After 30, your views are usually more or less set for life. Of course it doesn't apply to those "chameleons" who are keen life-long adapters/learners with open minds though it gets harder with age. You'll be surprised how plastic the human brain can be.

Eg. I used to think three course meals etc were silly old aristocratic relics of the past, but now after a few years of fine dining experience with my professors and other academic staff, my own self would think otherwise today.

This exactly!  :clapping: Is what partly persuaded me to venture far and away into the FSU to find future wife! ;) Hoping to get married and settled by 28 at the very latest. Then again, you never know what the future holds :P

IMO I still think chemistry is over-rated really. Case in point: Who is to say you won't "grow to love her" like my grandpa's case?
http://www.livescience.com/56269-animal-sex-giant-pandas.html
If pandas can grow to adore each other through the mating process in captivity enough to facilitate reproduction, I very much doubt humans as fellow mammals are much different given a lack of choice.  :popcorn:

Again, I just think the whole chemistry thing is over-rated imo. I think no one is saying Skype is the be all and end all and skype like all tools for communication is just a tool and its effectiveness really depends on how it's used.

Here, I would beg to differ as I have found girls' personalities that I have met in person to be more or less what I have expected from prior skype sessions though these were all girls in the uk with no significant cultural differences with the exception of one Muscovite FSU with a good command of english. If I were to guess, I think perhaps part of the potential problem lies somewhere in the communication approach used on Skype before the meet.

It's probably fair to say there are many ways to go about this but I thought I'll share what I do with Skype. Sometimes I would video-call (Skype) her at a short moments notice on evenings so that she'll most likely be caught off guard then proceed to have a serious talk about life, philosophies, etc you name it. If she refuses to pick up these spontaneous calls more than 4-5 times, then I drop her and move on even if she is a 10/10. No exceptions. If she can't make time for me in the evening, I doubt she'll make time for me even if we get married. Then there are times where I'll sing a song for her  :rolleyes: all of a sudden during the session all the while keeping an eye on her subtle mannerisms (giggles? fidgeting? spacing out? staring at phone? etc etc) Anything to nudge her out of her comfort zone and see how she reacted and answered.

I'm curious as to how your Skype sessions usually take place Trench? I have no doubt there'll be much I can learn from the shared experience.  :popcorn:

Well eventually she's going to become "British" innit? Could be within months, years or decades. Doesn't matter the timeframe. Even if she gets pregnant years down the road, it's still possible she can still divorce then, get half and leave child custody to you? :-\

Eddie Murphy seems to have a point here among the slur of "bad words"  :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts4sEBb2K3s

Ultimately, I think we can do all the due diligence and checks we want in order to minimize the chances of undesired results but there's always a chance things might turn out different. Maybe she changed her mind and decides to not have kids? Maybe she suddenly decided to not leave the FSU? Or perhaps living in the UK turns her into a materialistic woman?  :-\ Anything's possible but it doesn't mean there's a high probability that it will definitely happen. I like adventure!  :P and this quote from fellow poster comes up again "Paranoia will Destroya"  :devil:  >:(

 :D On a side note, Trench if you're still seriously planning a trip to Moscow during springtime, I suggest you try to book tickets now and tackle the visa later.  :D I just got return flights on KLM from London to Moscow for £112 GBP , in-flight meals and checked baggage inclusive woohoo! 8) Not sharing the news with my Muscovite lass yet. RWD came first :P

That's a good deal with KLM Kyn, I've heard good things of KLM but never flown with them. I'm guessing there is a transfer which was why I went with Aeroflot to Moscow last year as it was direct, meals included.

I think if you're not too fussed with chemistry while it could work out you are increasing the dangers of having problems with the girls you meet. Sure you can build up rapport if you are good at this, and its not a bad thing to do, something I need to work on, but if a girl is not into I tend to get the impression these are the times when FSW start to act badly, the longer you are with them the more chance of this I think.

Your method of Skype is interesting and maybe worth a try, method in the madness as they say, lol. I can see why you would ditch her if she did not pick up 4 out of 5 times. For some girls they may find it inconvenient, I would if a girl did it to me. You would have to drop everything, watching TV, eating, tiredness and are kind of on the hop. That you are willing to drop a 10 I think shows that you have a good grasp on this search. I'm not sure if I would be knocking out girls who find it inconvenient or girls where there is not genuine interest. Again though without meeting prior would the chemistry be there on meeting? Is there a reason to show much interest prior to meeting? I'm not saying your wrong, I may indeed try it sometime to gauge the results but perhaps more after meeting.

Usually I used to set a time to Skype with girls, some are just not on Skype all day long or much at all, not all have smart phones or in a coverage area and some just have 'away' or 'offline' in which case they may not be there, hear it, etc. Scheduling meetings is a pain though and apparently some girl in FSU feel the same way likening it to awaiting for a dental appointment lol. I'm no singer, I have no singing voice, I can talk to a girl ok but if her English is not good yes it can be a major impediment, one that can be worked through but obviously a girl with good English has its benefits when communicating. I said quite a while ago that I was after girls that spoke good English from major airport cities. This is the ideal in my opinion but I have come to realize that it could cut out too many girls, that I could be limiting my search down too narrowly and in doing so sacrificing girls where there is natural chemistry. To me natural chemistry is unbreakable. She will still fancy you even if she comes to hate you, this of course would not be a good place to be but I prefer to have this chemistry link as it gives me reassurance that I am essentially in a good place with the girl even when things are bad.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 28, 2017, 05:42:42 PM
How have you got on with Skyping with girls Sting?


I do fine with Skype. It's a much better indicator of how well you get along with someone than messaging. Some you know you won't talk to again, others I've had hour long conversations the first time.

What sites are you using?  Mamba, Elena's Models etc..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 28, 2017, 05:54:01 PM

 :D On a side note, Trench if you're still seriously planning a trip to Moscow during springtime, I suggest you try to book tickets now and tackle the visa later.  :D I just got return flights on KLM from London to Moscow for £112 GBP ,

Damn that's a cheap price!!  If he doesn't get approved for a visa though then it's a waste.  Always make sure you get the visa first!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 28, 2017, 07:34:24 PM
Damn that's a cheap price!!  If he doesn't get approved for a visa though then it's a waste.  Always make sure you get the visa first!

Highly unlikely - given his history !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 28, 2017, 07:38:11 PM
Generally though she was a no go, probably why she was still single in her mid thirties.

....or may be she was a career girl - who never found Mr Right - yet - and wasn't prepared to settle for just anybody ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on November 29, 2017, 03:56:59 AM

The girl I never Skyped for a second time well, I don't think it was just her English that was poor but also her social skills. I think she lacked the ability to partake in conversation easily.


Trench, if you keep having these experiences sometimes you need to look in the mirror and see what's wrong.  I have talked to some girls who could barely speak English, I mean like absolute basic level.  We would have to use Google translate 90% of the time until my Russian got well enough to converse. 

One girl who had poor English I keep in regular contact even though she ended up marrying a Russian guy.  We became good enough friends that she invited me to stay at her place if I ever pass through her city.  This is even with her being married!  And I have never met her in real life before.

It may not be her social skills but rather a hesitancy to talk to you. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on November 29, 2017, 09:04:40 AM
Highly unlikely - given his history !

And I concur with msmob. I have no criminal history of any kind, come from a low-risk country, etc etc so I don't see why they would have any grounds to reject my visa application.

Also, if I go with a tourist visa application this time, it should be relatively easier compared to the tedious steps involved in getting a student visa last time around. Had to use DHL to fly in a single piece of university invitation letter (they don't accept electronically printed copies or photocopies) to fulfill part of the requirements :wallbash: It was barely even A5 sized!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on November 29, 2017, 10:53:59 AM
And I concur with msmob. I have no criminal history of any kind, come from a low-risk country, etc etc so I don't see why they would have any grounds to reject my visa application.

Also, if I go with a tourist visa application this time, it should be relatively easier compared to the tedious steps involved in getting a student visa last time around. Had to use DHL to fly in a single piece of university invitation letter (they don't accept electronically printed copies or photocopies) to fulfill part of the requirements :wallbash: It was barely even A5 sized!

They send e-invites now, makes the process much easier.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 29, 2017, 04:34:25 PM
Quote from: gaspar227 link=topic=22300.msg471989#msg471989 date=1511838525

Don't pay attention to Trenchcoat's advice. (sorry to pile on Trench)

[/quote

Wall how could you say that :o After all the hours of guidance I've given you on here :(
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 29, 2017, 05:26:41 PM
Hi Gaspar, I'll give you the advantage of my neandering advice since Wall has left me feeling so unappreciated :(

I wouldn't suggest any one site, free or pay monthly as superior. They tend to all have their advantages & disadvantages, some may be a bit better or less than another, but I would say use them all. The right girl or girls may be on any one of those sites.

DK watch all sites for scammers. EM does have a lot of fake profiles that usually end up being taken down eventually by EM bu by then the time wasted/damage dobe has happened.

I would say the one thing I wanted to find when setting out on this date is natural chemistry, it still is but I went around trying to find it in not the best way, it's been fun but means I'm still looking.

Finding natural chemistry can be random, some guys try to increase the odds by meeting loads of girls but essentially it's still random. I'm going to try the increasing odds and hops I am fortunate and get lucky. So I think a lot of this search is luck based.

If you've seen the documentary 'Love Me' Which features both AFA and EM you'll see two guys both get lucky on the AFA tour and some that didn't. It a good early insight into this game I found. Well one of the guys that found a girl on there had previously next to no dating joy what so ever, he looked a decent enough guy but likely lacking in socializing ability, did not seem super Intelligent, nor look amazingly wealthy, etc - but he's luck was in. He was playing the numbers game, he was lucky in not picking up a scammer looking for money or visa mule. He was lucky that the girl seemed into him, presumably right for each other. He knew that there were red flags to look out for without being paranoid. Yet even knowing what to look put for you can be unlucky at these sorts of events and get suckered in as a couple of the chaps did, one in particular.

Whats the difference between those that were successful and those that got played for a fool, a lot of it I believe was luck. Some guys are better at being aware, perceptive, better knowledge, better social skills but a lot is luck.

Having ability to recognise insincere women, scammers and avoid them is all very well but you still need luck for the right girl to come up, see each other, etc.

Sure, you're going to get a lot of bad people there on AFA tours, scammers, prostitutes, agency girls, insincere women, holiday whores, etc but you will also get some single women who if the right guy turns up will get with him - women past there prime in the FSU but potentially still decent looking.

Dating sites I have found also contain most of the above. Probably not as in great a quantity as tours perhaps but they are there. Advantage of dating sites you get time to screen them. In person you have to be on the ball to do this and/or screen them over time.

So I wouldn't rule out tours as shocking as it may be to some on here. Like you say they look fun and no doubt are, but don't expect them not to be packed with all the wrong sorts in terms of finding a long term relationship. Some women apparently also go just for a night out, they may even be married/have a partner, but you may just get lucky.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 29, 2017, 06:56:33 PM
Gaspar - welcome

I was about your age when I started looking and fitted a similar profile ...   To be clear, that was nearly 15 years ago ...   

Having travelled the FSU widely, I can't say Ukraine has the 'best looking' women -  it just has 20 million women who are nearer you than Russia or the 'Stans... don't limit your search by place ..I'm very much a make a trip about one lady guy - although visiting a few is also a route many guys on here took and are happily married.   



Hi Gaspar, I'll give you the advantage of my neandering advice since Wall has left me feeling so unappreciated :(

HEALTH WARNING


Sorry, this contributor likes to offer 'advise' whilst having failed miserably - making mistakes easily avoided - refuses to listen - and has the gall to post like he knows ... Sorry Trench - but you really must stop posting like you do (

He sees 'scammer' in every FSU lady..

I wouldn't suggest any one site, free or pay monthly as superior. They tend to all have their advantages & disadvantages, some may be a bit better or less than another, but I would say use them all. The right girl or girls may be on any one of those sites.

On which site did you find your partner from the FSU ?... You have one, right ?

I voted dmnotify - but fdating was up there....   My opinion is based on 3 plus year old info - other than advising FSU W friends of my partner

Here we go  :deadhorse:
DK watch all sites for scammers. EM does have a lot of fake profiles that usually end up being taken down eventually by EM bu by then the time wasted/damage dobe has happened.

Does it ? I'd prefer to say there might be some serial daters - whose photo hasn't changed much for years - on a lot of sites - bearing in mind what Trench calls a 'scammer' may very well be a perfectly normal FSU W expecting him to stump up for dates

I would say the one thing I wanted to find when setting out on this date is natural chemistry, it still is but I went around trying to find it in not the best way, it's been fun but means I'm still looking.


This is the guy who cannot spot a good 'un from a bad 'un ...There is a lot of luck involved - in that the lady you may be seeking chooses a 'good site' and has a profile up when you are both looking

Yet even knowing what to look put for you can be unlucky at these sorts of events and get suckered in as a couple of the chaps did, one in particular.

I wouldn't be seen near such 'events' .... 

Whats the difference between those that were successful and those that got played for a fool, a lot of it I believe was luck. Some guys are better at being aware, perceptive, better knowledge, better social skills but a lot is luck.

The difference is they quickly learn by mistakes - you make your own luck

Back to scammers ((

Having ability to recognise insincere women, scammers and avoid them is all very well but you still need luck for the right girl to come up, see each other, etc.

Once again, Trench - you are just wrong - 'luck' is reduced by checking all the sites - ladies can have more than one profile - that is not necessarily a 'red flag' - just increasing their chances

Sure, you're going to get a lot of bad people there on AFA tours, scammers, prostitutes, agency girls, insincere women, holiday whores, etc but you will also get some single women who if the right guy turns up will get with him - women past there prime in the FSU but potentially still decent looking.

Such TRIPE ...  You'll likely meet gals who have been promised free food and drinks and may be the chance to meet a rich westerner husband ...

Dating sites I have found also contain most of the above. Probably not as in great a quantity as tours perhaps but they are there. Advantage of dating sites you get time to screen them. In person you have to be on the ball to do this and/or screen them over time.

Which brings us back to your inability to tell the difference between a scammer and a keeper...  How many FSU ladies have you met in person ?

So I wouldn't rule out tours as shocking as it may be to some on here. Like you say they look fun and no doubt are, but don't expect them not to be packed with all the wrong sorts in terms of finding a long term relationship. Some women apparently also go just for a night out, they may even be married/have a partner, but you may just get lucky.

If all you want is you ego massaged..they are great ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 29, 2017, 08:58:32 PM
Gaspar - welcome

I was about your age when I started looking and fitted a similar profile ...   To be clear, that was nearly 15 years ago ...   

Having travelled the FSU widely, I can't say Ukraine has the 'best looking' women -  it just has 20 million women who are nearer you than Russia or the 'Stans... don't limit your search by place ..I'm very much a make a trip about one lady guy - although visiting a few is also a route many guys on here took and are happily married.   



HEALTH WARNING


Sorry, this contributor likes to offer 'advise' whilst having failed miserably - making mistakes easily avoided - refuses to listen - and has the gall to post like he knows ... Sorry Trench - but you really must stop posting like you do (

He sees 'scammer' in every FSU lady..

On which site did you find your partner from the FSU ?... You have one, right ?

I voted dmnotify - but fdating was up there....   My opinion is based on 3 plus year old info - other than advising FSU W friends of my partner

Here we go  :deadhorse:
Does it ? I'd prefer to say there might be some serial daters - whose photo hasn't changed much for years - on a lot of sites - bearing in mind what Trench calls a 'scammer' may very well be a perfectly normal FSU W expecting him to stump up for dates


This is the guy who cannot spot a good 'un from a bad 'un ...There is a lot of luck involved - in that the lady you may be seeking chooses a 'good site' and has a profile up when you are both looking

I wouldn't be seen near such 'events' .... 

The difference is they quickly learn by mistakes - you make your own luck

Back to scammers ((

Once again, Trench - you are just wrong - 'luck' is reduced by checking all the sites - ladies can have more than one profile - that is not necessarily a 'red flag' - just increasing their chances

Such TRIPE ...  You'll likely meet gals who have been promised free food and drinks and may be the chance to meet a rich westerner husband ...

Which brings us back to your inability to tell the difference between a scammer and a keeper...  How many FSU ladies have you met in person ?

If all you want is you ego massaged..they are great ...

Don't worry Mobe I'm not trying to take the 'expert cap' away from you, that can remain snuggly on your bonce ;D

The though of you Mobe an uptight Brit in the middle of a nightclub one of these tours stood there all stiff and starchy is enough to make me laugh :D

No I have not been ultimately successful at this yet but then I have only been going at it two years. Some of the successful guys were going at it around 9-10 years before they met with success and many of them tend to have a lot up top. Some guys have gone the entirely wrong route with ppl agencies and where most get scammed found a girl because she was naturally attracted to him. Some have taken married women away from their Russian man because she felt natural attraction to the guy. A lot of it is luck.

You no doubt deploy a strategy that works well for you in your circumstance but people are different and it is not always right for everybody. Not everyone is retired and has the time to sit in front of a PC 24/7 Skyping and messaging like they have nothing else to do on their hands.

Off course their is a lot off insincere goings on in these tours, there will be some girls just after a rich western guy, there will be women sucking up to bad ugly fat (mostly American ;) )guys there who would normally get no interest in their home country - little of this is of course sincere, they have not suddenly turned into Brad Pitt. Some girls of course are sincere, if your luck is in they will be attracted to you, or you will clue in that they are sincere.

After two years at his, being over there, meeting the girls and learning of here, I have gained a lot of knowledge on this, I'm not saying I wouldn't make another mistake but I think I could be successful at this next time. I'm just giving Gaspar my opinion on what I make of it, he is free to make up his own mind from what we say.

All I'm saying to Gaspar is that tours will have the numbers, many of those numbers will be insincere women of all varieties but there will be some sincere women there, there will be some women that just turn up to party for free not expecting to find anyone, but then meet the love of their life - luck. Some insincere or over the hill agency girls in their thirties may find the y are naturally attracted to someone and go off to spend a life together - they may or may not be a good thing long term but who knows for certain.

What I would say is that personally I think its better to date women first in FSU outside of a tour to understand them better and the situation there. While some can luck out with no previous experience on these tours going to one with experience and knowing a lot of the pitfalls that exist from experience I think would put a guy in good stead. What essentially you are getting at these tours is a lot of women thrown in there, many dubious, but apart from those out for deliberate scam there is no setting up guy with a girl with a lot of agency workings not knowing if your specifically a pawn set up with a girl who is just there to pull the wool over your eyes. I'm pretty sure now I could walk into a tour and avoid most of the scammers there and insincere women. They don't have a good reputation granted but if OP wants to go to one for a bit of fun so long as all the women there are not set ups then I say its not such a bad idea.

Gaspar, you ask about where to look? I would say Ukraine is a fun place to visit, it does have many beautiful women, however, it does have a problem in terms of scammers/insincere women - not all are but I would say it is almost a part of their culture. It can happen in Russia also, but I think it is perhaps less ridden with it.

On age group I would say at your age even in decent shape look more for women in their thirties, they are on the whole more readily wanting to settle down. I've been out with a girl in her twenties and despite her insistence that she was serious she really wasn't and I don't think she really knew it or realised it. Younger girls tend to want stuff bought for them and I was never intending to be a sugar daddy though it seemed that is what I had unwittingly fallen into.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on November 30, 2017, 04:43:10 AM
Some have taken married women away from their Russian man because she felt natural attraction to the guy. A lot of it is luck.

 :shock: Any cases that you knew of? This just sounds so wrong   ::):(. Links would be appreciated.

On age group I would say at your age even in decent shape look more for women in their thirties, they are on the whole more readily wanting to settle down. I've been out with a girl in her twenties and despite her insistence that she was serious she really wasn't and I don't think she really knew it or realised it. Younger girls tend to want stuff bought for them and I was never intending to be a sugar daddy though it seemed that is what I had unwittingly fallen into.

Is it? Really Trench? Then how do you explain why the majority of FSU lasses get married before the age of 30? Did they simply marry because it was fun? :-\ I trawl through vk whenever I have some free time and all I see are just millions of women seemingly happily married by 30, even for Ukraine  :-\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_age_at_first_marriage

Unless there's evidence to the contrary, I'm going to call bollocks on this one.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 30, 2017, 09:44:06 AM
Don't worry Mobe I'm not trying to take the 'expert cap' away from you, that can remain snuggly on your bonce ;D

Kindly remember that any recommendations from you are worrying, to say the least..)



The though of you Mobe an uptight Brit in the middle of a nightclub one of these tours stood there all stiff and starchy is enough to make me laugh :D

As already pointed out...I would not be daft enough to pay for such a dubious ego trip... At the OP's age I was defo not a night club wall flower..Possibly you are describing yourself ?!

No I have not been ultimately successful at this yet but then I have only been going at it two years. Some of the successful guys were going at it around 9-10 years before they met with success and many of them tend to have a lot up top. Some guys have gone the entirely wrong route with ppl agencies and where most get scammed found a girl because she was naturally attracted to him. Some have taken married women away from their Russian man because she felt natural attraction to the guy. A lot of it is luck.

You are rambling and making excuses for your failure to listen to sound advice...

Married women seeking a western husband ?


You no doubt deploy a strategy that works well for you in your circumstance but people are different and it is not always right for everybody. Not everyone is retired and has the time to sit in front of a PC 24/7 Skyping and messaging like they have nothing else to do on their hands.



Is that Trench for, 'I'm still advocating Skype , or similar, are not useful filters?'
 I already pointed out that I was the same age as the OP when I started off in this venture...  I was a small biz owner....and I am not retired...


Off course their is a lot off insincere goings on in these tours, there will be some girls just after a rich western guy, there will be women sucking up to bad ugly fat (mostly American ;) )guys there who would normally get no interest in their home country - little of this is of course sincere, they have not suddenly turned into Brad Pitt. Some girls of course are sincere, if your luck is in they will be attracted to you, or you will clue in that they are sincere.

After two years at his, being over there, meeting the girls and learning of here, I have gained a lot of knowledge on this, I'm not saying I wouldn't make another mistake but I think I could be successful at this next time. I'm just giving Gaspar my opinion on what I make of it, he is free to make up his own mind from what we say.

Once again, your 'opinions' are based on some seriously mistrusting, ignorant and misogynistic outlooks...He would be wise to ignore you.




As the OP will also realise your definition of over the hill is laughable.

There followed some more Trench 'scammer' BS...


If the OP wants to go to one for a bit of fun so long as all the women there are not set ups then I say its not such a bad idea.

A fool and his money are clearly easily parted ....based on your latest 'advice'. (

There now follows complete bollox ...


Gaspar, you ask about where to look? I would say Ukraine is a fun place to visit, it does have many beautiful women, however, it does have a problem in terms of scammers/insincere women - not all are but I would say it is almost a part of their culture. It can happen in Russia also, but I think it is perhaps less ridden with it.

When WILL you get it Trench? An FSU W expecting you to pay for a meal is NOT a 'scammer'..  ?



On age group I would say at your age even in decent shape look more for women in their thirties, they are on the whole more readily wanting to settle down. I've been out with a girl in her twenties and despite her insistence that she was serious she really wasn't and I don't think she really knew it or realised it. Younger girls tend to want stuff bought for them and I was never intending to be a sugar daddy though it seemed that is what I had unwittingly fallen into.

Slaps forehead... Trench... One minute they are 'over the hill' and the next, worthy targets?)

Newsflash... The older the FSU W, the more likely she will expect you to be a 'REAL man'...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 30, 2017, 12:07:02 PM
:shock: Any cases that you knew of? This just sounds so wrong   ::):(. Links would be appreciated.

Is it? Really Trench? Then how do you explain why the majority of FSU lasses get married before the age of 30? Did they simply marry because it was fun? :-\ I trawl through vk whenever I have some free time and all I see are just millions of women seemingly happily married by 30, even for Ukraine  :-\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_age_at_first_marriage

Unless there's evidence to the contrary, I'm going to call bollocks on this one.

Patagonie is one forum member on here that took a woman away from her husband in the FSU. He went over to meet her, I think she was an agency girl or similar, anyway they apparently had restaurant met together and she ended up liking him so much that she ended up being married to him. I don't believe he knew she was married at the time, think it may have been a case of her making out she was single. Look him up in here he posted on here several months ago and told us about it, I think other forum members that have been here long time know the story well I got the impression.

Kyn with the whole age thing, twenties is really the time 'local women marry local guys' you see for many of them dating abroad is a last resort. Few guys in the US or UK would go to all the trouble to date abroad if there was a good supply of quality women locally they could readily get with. Well, its the same for FSW, they all dash for the quality guys in their late teens & early twenties, hell they may even be lining themselves up with a future husband in their mid teens. They know that all the quality men are gone by their mid twenties particularly in the poorer regional cities & town, the ex-industrial cr*p holes. They need a guy that can support a family, that is not becoming an alcoholic, that there is attraction with. Even if they make a bad/wrong choice at least they made/had a stab at it where some women just don't.

By their thirties they are just there for sex for the guys and this to them is of course unappealing, after all what woman wants to just be a bum for some guy to penis up? Only for her to come second to his wife for when she is not available. Its degrading and humiliating for these women to have their virtue in tatters who are brought up being told of the joys of family & children to then be denied this and end up the leftovers and if they get with these men. Hence many stay celibate for years, some may still even be virgins into their thirties.

What I am trying to say is their are many women in their thirties that are still good quality women at least by western standards. Many people that have gone to the FSU comment that a 5-6 there is like a 7-8 here, at least a point or two higher and that is just on looks. Women in their twenties do look abroad for a guy, of course they do and some do marry, but far fewer get to this point of marriage to a foreign guy in their twenties, why? well because they may still hold out the hope of a local guy, they can then live local, less hassle, etc. They also can be more picky with the foreign guys they meet because they have time to play with, if one doesn't suit well hell they still have the rest of their twenties to look around, its far from ideal but they are not in last chance saloon yet. One they get in their thirties they know they only really have to their mid thirties to find a guys as their biological clock is ticking and they have to get to know the guy before getting pregnant ideally of course. For them if a foreign guy comes up they may never get another visit from a foreign guy in their lifetime, do they want to be flippant about this guy who is wealthy enough for foreign travel, to which they could have kids with and have comfortable lifestyle in a nice area away from dumpsk or do they turn him away and be a bum for sex to some married local guy, go figure ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on November 30, 2017, 07:28:01 PM

I can think of a dozen examples off the top of my head that disprove your theory.  Including Billy's first Ukrainian wife.


You seem to think in every divorce a woman leaves the man. I left her. I need to be happy in a marriage too or I will leave. Too many options out there to be spending time with someone who doesn't put in the same effort.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on December 01, 2017, 02:09:15 AM
And I concur with msmob. I have no criminal history of any kind, come from a low-risk country, etc etc so I don't see why they would have any grounds to reject my visa application.



I didn't mean you but Trench! i'm sure you won't have problems...I have been both granted and denied visas..sometimes you never know what the reasoning is..Russian logic :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 02:25:04 AM
Patagonie is one forum member on here that took a woman away from her husband in the FSU. He went over to meet her, I think she was an agency girl or similar, anyway they apparently had restaurant met together and she ended up liking him so much that she ended up being married to him. I don't believe he knew she was married at the time, think it may have been a case of her making out she was single. Look him up in here he posted on here several months ago and told us about it, I think other forum members that have been here long time know the story well I got the impression.

..and .. ?  All that proves is that the lady wasn't happy in her marriage

Kyn with the whole age thing, twenties is really the time 'local women marry local guys'

Is it, now ? :)))  Trench proving - once again - how 'knowledgeable' (not) he is ... I know plenty of single late 20's and 30 something lasses who are single and childless - their choice.

you see for many of them dating abroad is a last resort.

 :ROFL:

More Trench tosh... if anything it's the more sought after and brighter ladies that look overseas ....


Few guys in the US or UK would go to all the trouble to date abroad if there was a good supply of quality women locally

There is simply more choice of slimmer, intelligent women over here in the FSU... with an ideal of family that is more traditional.

Now this is bloody funny ..and a clear example of why your 'advise' should contain a 'health warning'..

By their thirties they are just there for sex for the guys and this to them is of course unappealing, after all what woman wants to just be a bum for some guy to penis up? Only for her to come second to his wife for when she is not available. Its degrading and humiliating for these women to have their virtue in tatters who are brought up being told of the joys of family & children to then be denied this and end up the leftovers and if they get with these men. Hence many stay celibate for years, some may still even be virgins into their thirties.

Classic Trench utter bollox...   You REALLY do not understand the lasses over here - AT ALL .... 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 01, 2017, 04:31:33 AM
I didn't mean you but Trench! i'm sure you won't have problems...I have been both granted and denied visas..sometimes you never know what the reasoning is..Russian logic :)

Interesting. Hmm, were there any reasons given for the rejections? What types of visa got rejected?

Well here in London, to my knowledge the visa application process has largely been outsourced and is now largely a commercial operation so imo things may be more "logical" here perhaps.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on December 01, 2017, 08:04:20 AM
Interesting. Hmm, were there any reasons given for the rejections? What types of visa got rejected?

Well here in London, to my knowledge the visa application process has largely been outsourced and is now largely a commercial operation so imo things may be more "logical" here perhaps.

They don't give a reason but mainly it is due to the invitation company.  I applied through a visa agency and the host "companies" they use for the invite may not be completely legit. it's Russia after all.  I usually get business visas as they have a longer validity.  I applied again with a different agency and got it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 01:42:45 PM

Well here in London, to my knowledge the visa application process has largely been outsourced and is now largely a commercial operation so imo things may be more "logical" here perhaps.

The application centres in London, Manchester and Edinburgh are outsourced - but your application is processed in consulates in London and Edinburgh
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 01, 2017, 01:55:20 PM
The application centres in London, Manchester and Edinburgh are outsourced - but your application is processed in consulates in London and Edinburgh

Correct msmob. I glossed over the fact that it still needs to go through the consulates.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 09:32:40 PM
..and my apologies - if I came across as a pedant  - in correcting you ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 01, 2017, 10:27:39 PM
Dang fellas!  You all are super.  Even (especially?) Trench.  I got exactly what I was hoping for here, and wonder if there's more ammo left. 

So I took advice and joined up on 3 sites, 2 advertisers here, UD and CuteOnly as well as DMnotify.  I'm certainly getting a lot of attention, both scammers (email me..I'll be your best friend) and their profiles quickly disappear, as well as some very sweet looking and hopefully sincere ladies. I'm putting EM in the backpocket as it definitely looks like the most polished site and I could really pull some nonsense over there if I wanted to devote energy to it I think.

Right now I'm really liking UkraineDate, but as I joined there first, i've put the most energy into that one.  DMnotify is coming through better now, and cuteonly isn't doing as well, but again, i'm spending 75% of my time mining UD. 

I'm not saying I'm killing it by any means, but it's definitely fun and worth the $$ just in entertainment value for me.  Who doesn't like talking to hot chicks, even if you're being catfished half the time.

As far as AFA, I did a little cost analysis, and holy Toledo...for what they want (now that I've really looked at it and seen trip reports like RW) I could walk around like Robert Palmer for that kind of money (not so secret fantasy of mine).  So unless I completely crash and burn, (or hit the lottery), that's not going to be the route I go.

And yes I did watch that movie love me, and it was an inspiration for me in many ways (while in the death throws of my marriage).  The only thing that stopped me from doing this years ago was deciding to play pretty woman with a 21 y/o stripper, turn her into a playboy bunny then watched her finally get so bored because I actually 'gasp' work for a living and cant sit around entertaining her all the time that she ran off with some guy she met on the ::gasp:: internet 2500 miles away (she's miserable now btw and has begged to come back, but LOL anyway)..  I digress...point is I love this idea of finding someone far away.

So yea, I'm kinda a dick I guess, and yes, having fun with a little ego stroking isn't always bad IMO as long as you're not hurting anyone (but yourself).  I mean I LOVE strip clubs, I love dating strippers.  In the end though they are kinda like what you call agency girls right?  I mean I love a splash of trash, but it does get old.

Truly, I'm a softie at heart and I've always gotten my ass kicked by girls.  That's truly one of the worst things about this as far as my fear goes.  I'm not one to wear the pants in the relationship, i'm not a pussy mind you, but I am definitely pussy whipped. I get in trouble letting shit slide.  and from what I can tell, that's very bad news with most of these women.  I"m brave though, i'm willing to bet I can still handle a little fire from 120lb ice queen now and again.

My sincerity in finding a great girl, someone with the values you all are talking about, someone who isn't so entitled and knows that you need to do you part to make things work.  And if she's hot and fun, that's a bonus man.  I know you all will question it, but to most people I'm extremely trustworthy and steadfast.  I don't get to rant like this much about what I really want and think about things.

Everyone's input is great, and I know now that I'll get shredded despite the stop shredded cheese disclaimers and that's OK.  I wish I would have found this thread earlier, and i'm astounded by everyone's input. 

So now what:

I'm really trying to get my shit together to get a trip out there in Feb.  That may be a pipe dream, and I KNOW it will be a beast with the weather.  I really want to snowboard but it looks like the resorts are all on the other side of the country.  Most of the girls I've talked to are from Sumy or Odessa or Kiev (less).  I think you'd have to take an all day train to do something like that and it would probably be miserable (not with the right company I guess).  Not to mention there seems to be a lot of bad politics on that side of the country.  I mean I have to choose somewhere right? And I don't see going ATW to Novosibirsk to be with some super hot chick a very good idea as if it doesn't pan out...well you're in Novosibirsk -- (south siberia?)

Any thoughts on that?  Otherwise I mean what the hell would I do in Sumy for 10 days.  The girl's gotta work right?  From what I can see it's not exactly a hot spot.  I hear there are a TON of women who want to GTFO because of that whole Crimea thing and being the canon fodder if Russia comes through, but it's still a small town.  These chicks either aren't real or they have to know each other right?  I mean how many 28-32 yo hot chicks can live in a town of 260,000 and not know about each other? 

Is it possible to pull them to Kiev from Sumy for the length of your stay?  Can they do that realistically?  I figure if stuff crashes and burns with the woman I'm visiting at least I can crank on the sites and pay for dinners every night in Kiev to keep from being lonely and cold as hell right?  I was really leaning towards Kiev, but I have a feeling that Moscow/Kiev would both have major difficulties with getting a 'good girl' (even if the english of the girl might be better etc). 

Obviously Odessa is a good candidate too, but I'm not experienced enough with any of this to navigate like RW did or like some others have.  I don't want to end up like Osis .. kinda sounded like he was generally pissed off about the whole thing on his trip report.

So those are some more of my thoughts on this and I'm getting fired up.  Running every day, hitting the gym, i might be a bald ass mofo, but at least I'll be lean and mean when (if) I get there. 

Let the massacre begin i guess. Enjoy the feast.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 10:55:46 PM
Well, you're honest - and if everyone has the same attitude as you - paying money to be written to by ladies - who might actually be a be hairy Boris - then the pay by letter sites will be here a little longer, yet ! ;)

BTW There's the Carpathian mountains in W.Ukraine and Sochi - Russia, for snowboarding  - you don't HAVE to go to Siberia ..

You may be making the classic error - by excluding the more far flung places...  Model agency scouts make a bee-line for N'birsk, Krasnoyarsk, etc...they are cities of ac. one million or more ...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 01, 2017, 11:05:30 PM
I do make a lot of classic errors.  I rambled a lot because i was excited.  What I was saying is that the dating sites are fun.  I know that some are scammers, but it's fun to learn how they work.  I'm not at the point of getting any attachment to any of them (this is like day 4) so maybe we'll talk about how fun getting catfished is after a few months. 

As far as the other cities, can you help me out here.  What exactly are you saying?  I grew up cold war, Russia scares me a little, but if you're saying that those larger cities in the interior are great for this, please help me, post some links and such for me to read up on please!

I also watched the loveme movie with David Arquette ... the movie movie.  not the one Trenchcoat referenced (more documentary)  I'll watch it though.

and I'm not talking about ever doing the PPL thing.  That's just crazy. I'm just talking about girls on the sites.   

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 01, 2017, 11:24:40 PM


BTW There's the Carpathian mountains in W.Ukraine and Sochi - Russia, for snowboarding  - you don't HAVE to go to Siberia ..

That's what I was referring to about meeting a girl in Sumy and having to go ATW across the country.  I also saw a bunch of stuff about the whole stuff about Lugansk i mean is that a thing?  You'd have to cross all that nonsense from one side to the other.  I'm up for adventure, but war is pretty scary stuff. 

When I was in Maiorca I met a stunner from Latvia...I've read a little about 'single guys PUA' type stuff and Latvia had favorable views, but honestly I'm not looking for that.  I really want to get married and quit all this nonsense.  I'd rather spend my energy posting on the couples forums than here.  I am definitely not one of those guys that loves the hunt. 

http://www.visahunter.com/articles/the-best-online-dating-sites-in-latvia/ (http://www.visahunter.com/articles/the-best-online-dating-sites-in-latvia/) 

these are pretty bad, tried badoo...and it's a mess imo.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 11:28:49 PM


As far as the other cities, can you help me out here.  What exactly are you saying?  I grew up cold war, Russia scares me a little, but if you're saying that those larger cities in the interior are great for this, please help me, post some links and such for me to read up on please!

I base my observations on experience..  My Russian wife is from Siberia - Krasnoyarsk - a big city I expect most have never heard of - unless you find a lass from there... It's another 4 hour plane ride east of Moscow.  LOADS of guys wrote her - 'inviting her to Moscow' - while they were there 'on business' ( yeah right) and I was the first guy to actually show up....

You can easily get an RU visa and I live here for much of the time ... it's perfectly safe - from the 'You're a westerner' perspective.


and I'm not talking about ever doing the PPL thing.  That's just crazy. I'm just talking about girls on the sites.   

Wise man !

Here's a list of Russian cities by population - in descending order:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_towns_in_Russia_by_population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_towns_in_Russia_by_population)

I spend my time in Sochi - which when combined with other 'cities' within 30km is unofficially over a 1m - possibly a million and a half - after all the investment in the Winter Olympics, FIFA 2108 orld cup, Formula 1 facing and the ski resorts - mountains AND  sea - what more could you want ?;)

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g3206479-d3753947-Reviews-Rosa_Khutor_Ski_Resort-Esto_Sadok_Adler_District_Sochi_Greater_Sochi_Krasnodar_K.html (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g3206479-d3753947-Reviews-Rosa_Khutor_Ski_Resort-Esto_Sadok_Adler_District_Sochi_Greater_Sochi_Krasnodar_K.html)

Edited to add video!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUnm7utcGbM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUnm7utcGbM)



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 01, 2017, 11:45:32 PM


That's what I was referring to about meeting a girl in Sumy and having to go ATW across the country.  I also saw a bunch of stuff about the whole stuff about Lugansk i mean is that a thing?  You'd have to cross all that nonsense from one side to the other.  I'm up for adventure, but war is pretty scary stuff. 

Lughansk is a city in Ukraine - currently under the control of 'rebels' - supported by Russia - although - it's as much about money and control of the resources.  The people are kind there - but the 'regime' sn not recognised by any western govt and it would be unwise to travel there - lest some 'wack job' thought you were a spy !  IF you want to meet a lass from there - you'd be wiser to meet her in Russia or areas of Ukraine that aren't in or near a war zone.





When I was in Maiorca I met a stunner from Latvia...I've read a little about 'single guys PUA' type stuff and Latvia had favorable views, but honestly I'm not looking for that.  I really want to get married and quit all this nonsense.  I'd rather spend my energy posting on the couples forums than here.  I am definitely not one of those guys that loves the hunt. 

http://www.visahunter.com/articles/the-best-online-dating-sites-in-latvia/ (http://www.visahunter.com/articles/the-best-online-dating-sites-in-latvia/) 

Having - just -spent 4 days in Latvia - in the Russian speaking areas, mainly - I can state there'd be plenty of lasses wanting to be in Majorca or ANYWHERE other than a winter there (( 

The people were kind and helpful.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 02, 2017, 08:32:24 AM
You're a genius msmob, this is exactly the kind of advice I needed.  Lift lines on that day would have been amazing!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 02, 2017, 11:42:12 PM
You will  find that women there are pretty similar to those from your own country, with the same huge variances in personality, maturity, ethics, sense of entitlement, or lack thereof.
These individual personal differences are far greater than any of the cultural nuances in my opinion.
  The  differences you'd note  are likely as much from economic hardship as anything.
Like anywhere, a struggle can build someone's character positively , or  effect it negatively.

To be blunt, the culture  there in general has a more negative outlook.Crabs in a bucket.
A lot if that is to do with corruption at every level which leads to a bleak future outlook to those living in  it.Most in my opinion  are effected by all of it in a not so great way.
 Like any crucible, it can really turn out someone positive and outstanding as well.

 Look for someone positive and outstanding,  regardless location(or for that matter nationality)
If you find someone that really would fit in with you and your culture they will assimilate quickly anyway, So the cultural  stuff guys talk about will mean little.
Those that are negative (many are,sorry it's a stereotype for good reason) will not assimilate well, have huge culture shock and a hard time adjusting.
I've seen a lot of this way.

As example,on the positive side,  in our area there is zero chance you could tell my wife from any local soccer mom.She always liked the culture here,and even if noting things that were different originally,  looked for the positive side of it. That's not something you see in a lot of FSU immigrants.
Sure you could tell she's not from the states
 from a slight accent,that's diminishing yearly,  but not from style  of dress, life outlook, or political outlooks, etc. Etc. Etc.
Nothing in our relationship has anything to do with her nationality or cultural background.If successful, ultimately you'd be in the same spot.
So my advice is forget the hype, concentrate on finding the person, that one fantastic person to meet(and even then it's just that, a meeting,nothing more) not thinking about the country, city etc, and above all do not rule out continuing to date locally. Use international dating as a means to extend possibilities,,nothing more.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 02, 2017, 11:51:56 PM
And by all means, forget a tour.
Those mostly went away a decade or more ago, and fir good reason as they never were a very good option.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 03, 2017, 01:04:33 PM

As far as the other cities, can you help me out here.  What exactly are you saying?  I grew up cold war, Russia scares me a little, but if you're saying that those larger cities in the interior are great for this, please help me, post some links and such for me to read up on please!

I also watched the loveme movie with David Arquette ... the movie movie.  not the one Trenchcoat referenced (more documentary)  I'll watch it though.

Well over here in UK the 'love me' (2014) documentary is on Netflix, it's a fun watch and like I said gives a good insight not just into the AFA tour but FSU Dating in general. If it's not on Netflix on the US & if you can't get UK netflux then try other streaming services, Google search & Amaxon, etc. There is also a good You Tube video on another lot that used to do tours, I don't think they do tours anymore and they show some of the more dubious men that show up, it's good for a laugh and I'll try to find it for you sometime. Also, if you look on Amazon a book called 'Odessa Dreams' is a worthwhile read, it gives you an insight into some of the scams connected with tours, what they are like and is a good laugh also. After seeing/reading these I would say don't get obessed with scamping it happens but there are a lot of sincere women too. Some guys turn into scammer hunters and lose the plot entirely spending their days tracking down scammers and reporting them on FSU Scammer websites. Please don't end up as one of these guys, it's just sad and misses the whole point of dating east European girls entirely which of course is to get with them, a good one.

The reason to pass over girls in the Luhansk/Donetsk region and there aboutS is the civil war in that area (east Ukraine). A scam is easy to run from a war zone, she may not even be there due to the state of that area. Also if you were to agree to meet you would likely be paying all the travel & hotel cost for her - not expensive but she may just be using you for a trip away. Lastly, and perhaps most crucially you will never be able to visit her home city as you will not be able to access a war zone - it will be too dangerous and you will be denied access by the authorities.

Girl's from cities far flung in Russia are likely to be sincere, in Ukraine there has been a long tradition of insincere women operating to swindle western men. Don't get me wrong they are some nice women and nearly all women you will meet there will be charming and hospitable sincere or not but as I have found it takes more effort & importantly experience to know what you are doing there.

I would also say if you get baited easily then be wary the dating industry (particularly Ukraine & particularly tours) are set up with guys like you in mind. Try & cool off the excitement a little if you want a genuine girl and look at the more everday type of women out there. I think though end of the day the wat you are going to learn the most like most of us here is to get get over there and learn from mistakes made. AFA tours are somewhat expensive but you get the flight, hotel & travel all in and the women are supplied en-mass so plenty to choose from even if a dubious bunch. RW didn't do a tour he medashed a girl on Anastasia Date (a PPL site) and met her in Odessa - normally a real big no, no to do as agency girls are known for scamming guys more than any other.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 03, 2017, 03:15:40 PM
Thank again guys.  Trenchcoat, you keep giving solid advice like that and people are going to start treating you differently! 

I think in just the few days of reading this stuff and playing the dating site thing I'm getting a better feel for this.  There are definitely all kinds, pushy girls, bored girls, scammers, and even some seemingly normal girls. 

Tour is out.  I was saying that for the kind of money for a tour you could do a trip like RWs and live like a king. Even he did it on the cheap with all the air bnbs and stuff. 

And i've opened my thoughts up to other girls in Russia.  I think I understand why dmnotify is popular here, gives a nice variety of places vs just Ukraine.

Couple of questions: 

I know the agency girls with the PPL were big, but do these sites pay girls to keep members talking as well?  Or is the hot and cold nature of the logins and chat on the sites normal and not to be read into some kind of concerted thing?  I'm asking because I'll talk to a couple of girls a bit then they will all be gone for a while, then all back at the same time.  I mean it could just be work/time of day thing, which makes sense, but i'm a little paranoid.  I'm wondering if their job IS to talk to me.  So when they are off, that's their weekend and they don't talk, then its back to work talking to me.  OMG this is some weird shit to think about.

What's with the trips?  Like most of the girls say they like to travel, and you ask a few where they have been and they've been all over Europe or Egypt, or SE Asia.  I understand that's normal for some guys to pay for them to travel with them, and it's usually travel with benefits.  I don't really have a problem with that, but does that mean that they are going to scam you -- or were they sort of scammed possibly by a vacation boyfriend who promised he was serious and bailed?  I guess I'm asking should this be a deal breaker?  It's really hard for me to picture a small town Ukraine girl paying for a 10 day trip to Bali or a trip to Egypt with her daughter.  Or another single girl from Vladivostok going to Japan, France and Spain on her own.   I saw the pictures, she was there, or at least the girl in the add was there, but it's just hard to reconcile with that person talking to an old dude from phoenix about getting married.  LOL.

Finally about apps and translations and stuff.  I have one girl who uses whatsapp, which i completely prefer to say the dmnotify chat (it's just way easier) but then some girls don't want to move because they say the translator isn't there.  As a side note, I had 2 girls that were chatting quite a bit with me on ukrainedate, but when I suggested we move to whatsapp, they completely shut down.  Coincidence?  Again I'm feeling like i'm paranoid but maybe it's because they are out to mess with me.  This is what made me wonder about question 1.  If we move to whatsapp, what's the need for the website?



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 03, 2017, 03:33:35 PM
Trench is wrong about the sincerity of RW vs UW. The difference is that in Ukraine, the agency system is entrenched, and women working through those agencies are often paid so they are not sincere.

Lots of Russians and Ukrainians can afford to travel. Vladivostok to Japan is probably relatively inexpensive, given they are practically neighbours. Tours to Egypt and Turkey are common in both countries. Trains or even buses to the EU also cut down on cost.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 03, 2017, 04:34:34 PM
The agency system in Ukraine is entrenched but I would also say that it has in turn promoted insincere values to non-agency women as a result of its being.

Gaspar, there is certainly a cost saving by sourcing your own women a tour though would bring up a load of women to feast from. Some are dodgy, many no doubt but don't expect your own efforts to dig up much better. RW I think knew how to play the game quite well for a new starter as he worked in HR as his job and/or he may have got somewhat lucky. We still don't know about the long term result there if anything led on from it. Many guys including myself don't meet with success first time. I've done ok so far in that I've met girls & had a good time in general. I have not had success yet but with experience I am hopefull.

Stay away from PPL agencies either use pay monthly or free sites. If your using pay monthly or free site and girls are avolable at same time it may mean they are talking in their evening/weekend. Remember there is a time zone conversion to be done. PPL sites very much pay their girls (or guys) to keep members talking and work in shifts so may come on at the same time. You are paying per letter there so that's what keeps them making money it can add up quickly.

Gaspar if there is one thing I can impart to you is that the expense of making a false move like visiting a girl from a ppl agency, not visiting a girl in her home city, showing pics of you looking wealthy, etc, etc is often a 'go back start' on the FSU dating board game and start over.

Personally, these days I put girls with holiday photos to the back of my list. They are a lot of holiday whores in the FSU dating game so really watch out for them. Lots of photos particularly to western countries screams holiday whore. You have to learn to judge them a little, sure places like Turkey may be ok as it's a typical destination for Ukrainians, etc but even here many get western men to pay for the trip. A girl who says she likes travelling could well be looking to do so at the guys expense. Leave out all holidays (a mistake I made but I thought it was the real deal). Pushy women seem quote frequent in the FSU. I thought pushy may not be a problem at first but longer term it looks like it van drive a relationship to the rocks when she decides on relationship issues or development and refuses to compromise.

I've no idea how WhatsApp works on their side. Skype I'very had no complaints from the women maybe suggest that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 03, 2017, 08:17:21 PM
The agency system in Ukraine is entrenched but I would also say that it has in turn promoted insincere values to non-agency women as a result of its being.

...and I would say - based on your extremely limited experience - lack of knowledge of the local lingo or customs and seemingly an inability to absorb the advice of people from there or living there - that you are talking out of your a*se.((


Gaspar, there is certainly a cost saving by sourcing your own women a tour though would bring up a load of women to feast from. Some are dodgy, many no doubt but don't expect your own efforts to dig up much better.

You just do not 'get it... a Tour brings up a 'pig in a poke'... ( hardly a 'feast' ). I don't know if this expression 'travels' - but even Trench will understand what it means in the UK vernacular.  'Cost' doesn't come into it ... other than improving your chances...  This is not a rational exercise and watching the pennies - other than buying flights and hotels, wisely - is the extend of the control you may have.


RW I think knew how to play the game quite well for a new starter as he worked in HR as his job and/or he may have got somewhat lucky. We still don't know about the long term result there if anything led on from it. Many guys including myself don't meet with success first time. I've done ok so far in that I've met girls & had a good time in general. I have not had success yet but with experience I am hopefull.

RW - has a good job, as was prepared to splash some cash - renting sl. more up-market places at the end of the season .. He went with a relaxed attitude and wasn't particularly hunting for a LTR....

Stay away from PPL agencies either use pay monthly or free sites. If your using pay monthly or free site and girls are avolable at same time it may mean they are talking in their evening/weekend. Remember there is a time zone conversion to be done. PPL sites very much pay their girls (or guys) to keep members talking and work in shifts so may come on at the same time. You are paying per letter there so that's what keeps them making money it can add up quickly.

You just don't know if you are speaking TO the girl in the photos - or even if it's a girl ...

Gaspar if there is one thing I can impart to you is that the expense of making a false move like visiting a girl from a ppl agency, not visiting a girl in her home city, showing pics of you looking wealthy, etc, etc is often a 'go back start' on the FSU dating board game and start over.

Nonsense ...   If you are serious about finding a LTR - your pics should portray your truthful lifestyle - not over-selling / underselling

Personally, these days I put girls with holiday photos to the back of my list.

 :ROFL: The advice of a novice... I once thought as you did - V had photos with her son on holiday in Turkey - it was the last family holiday taken with her then husband....    She took a holiday - alone - to Turkey in Sept - only because another lady pulled out and SC said she'd go in her place- but also pulled out as she found a 'bargain' and bought another apt ...

UA / RU folk can get incredible prices for tours - bargains - so don't be too quick to make assumptions...


I've no idea how WhatsApp works on their side. Skype I'very had no complaints from the women maybe suggest that.

???  !!!  We only recently had a bizarre thread from you on the 'downsides' of using Skype ))  Whatsapp, Viber and Skype all work fine - as long as there's good enough internet - both ends..

BTW :  Telegram is an excellent chat and - (currently) voice only - app - it works in 'poor' internet connect areas- when the other three afore-mentioned services will render one / both of you inaudible

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 03, 2017, 08:21:05 PM
Trench is wrong about the sincerity of RW vs UW. The difference is that in Ukraine, the agency system is entrenched, and women working through those agencies are often paid so they are not sincere.

Lots of Russians and Ukrainians can afford to travel. Vladivostok to Japan is probably relatively inexpensive, given they are practically neighbours. Tours to Egypt and Turkey are common in both countries. Trains or even buses to the EU also cut down on cost.

Hi Boethius

AKAIK, there's no charter holidays to Egypt from RU, still  - those going must arrange tours via Belarus - or fly via Turkey - booking direct.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 04, 2017, 09:55:36 AM
Kyn you're dead right. Females in the UK, US, etc have been sent on a fools errand. They don't see that by pursuing a career they are scuppering their own boat. They are going all out to provide for themselves - a task that used to be handed to the man. When they get to their late twenties to early thirties they ask themselves 'where are all the good men to choose from?' Meaning guys that have/can provide for themselves. They don't like it that a man would come and sponge of the provision they have made, i.e own property, etc. They seem to not realise that ghd man was supposed to provide this. They have mare life harder for themselves and put themselves into a position where virtually no man is suitable for them. The men left are the ones they knocked out in competition to get the plum job or to get a job. They have unwittingly dug theor own grave and will have to remain in work till retirement.

It's true that many of these women get off on getting carried away with the job. Men can do but tend to see it more as a means to an end of providing the money they need for family/comfort. Women are very easy to lead on and a lot of employers see this and target this aspect. Women love a pat on the back, recognition and an idea of status - basically a facade that they are something special. All of it is meaningless but they just can't grasp the big picture. One day they are going to retire or be laid off - their employer they will find won't care as they thought. The company that told them how it cares for them in their material to its employees will find its a lot of meaningless words. Shortly after moving on they will quickly be forgotten about along with all their years of hard work.

It's unfortunate that the feminist world that offered so much back in the 70s & 80s forward has only served to bugger both sexes up and cause a lot of loniness & misery. Both sexes in the west have been set against each other hacking the cr*p out of each other only for both to end up the losers. We really need to adjust our thinking in the west as society itself is falling apart.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on December 04, 2017, 10:51:04 AM
Kyn you're dead right. Females in the UK, US, etc have been sent on a fools errand. They don't see that by pursuing a career they are scuppering their own boat. They are going all out to provide for themselves - a task that used to be handed to the man. When they get to their late twenties to early thirties they ask themselves 'where are all the good men to choose from?' Meaning guys that have/can provide for themselves. They don't like it that a man would come and sponge of the provision they have made, i.e own property, etc. They seem to not realise that ghd man was supposed to provide this. They have mare life harder for themselves and put themselves into a position where virtually no man is suitable for them. The men left are the ones they knocked out in competition to get the plum job or to get a job. They have unwittingly dug theor own grave and will have to remain in work till retirement.

It's true that many of these women get off on getting carried away with the job. Men can do but tend to see it more as a means to an end of providing the money they need for family/comfort. Women are very easy to lead on and a lot of employers see this and target this aspect. Women love a pat on the back, recognition and an idea of status - basically a facade that they are something special. All of it is meaningless but they just can't grasp the big picture. One day they are going to retire or be laid off - their employer they will find won't care as they thought. The company that told them how it cares for them in their material to its employees will find its a lot of meaningless words. Shortly after moving on they will quickly be forgotten about along with all their years of hard work.

It's unfortunate that the feminist world that offered so much back in the 70s & 80s forward has only served to bugger both sexes up and cause a lot of loniness & misery. Both sexes in the west have been set against each other hacking the cr*p out of each other only for both to end up the losers. We really need to adjust our thinking in the west as society itself is falling apart.


Unbelievable! You just can't make this sh!t up, man! I guess more power to you if this is what defines you. May you find happiness within your world!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 04, 2017, 08:31:14 PM
Quote
i know the agency girls with the PPL were big, but do these sites pay girls to keep members talking as well?  Or is the hot and cold nature of the logins and chat on the sites normal and not to be read into some kind of concerted thing?  I'm asking because I'll talk to a couple of girls a bit then they will all be gone for a while, then all back at the same time.  I mean it could just be work/time of day thing, which makes sense, but i'm a little paranoid.  I'm wondering if their job IS to talk to me.  So when they are off, that's their weekend and they don't talk, then its back to work talking to me.  OMG this is some weird shit to think about.


For many (no not all,but many) women at the ppl.agencies or vid chat agencies  It absolutely is a job.
Never ever doubt that.


They are also, in many cases , paid by the agency To meet you if you travel .

The younger, the hotter, that they are, the bigger the percentage thats it's a job,and a damn good paying job in a provincial city.

some young hottie regularly available  to chat, at times most would be sleeping , on a routine schedule is most assuredly working.

That doesn't mean she isnt open to meeting you, or open to marriage.
(If wanting to communicate with foreign men,to possibly marry, why not get a job that pays you for your time to do so? Duh.)

It also doesn't mean she isn't already married, open to meet you,For the agency fee, and will gladly communicate with you (only thru the agency )for as long as you like.

Some have left their husbands for the foreign guy.i know one personally.Most wouldn't.
(Yes her Ukrainian  husband knew her job , and encouraged her to work)

There are a thousand variables, but if you want the matrix, you are in it if you step into MOB, PPL agencies. Lol

What it means mostly is that PPL sites are one of the worst ways to meet sincere fsu women .

Tours would rank the worst.

__________________

As far as vacactions, why on earth wouldn't FSU folk take them , and then post photos of interesting places they have been?

Many can afford to travel to the places you most often see in such photos, and of course like to take photos, and share them.







Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 04, 2017, 09:15:44 PM
Kyn you're dead right. Females in the UK, US, etc have been sent on a fools errand.

Trench, the only 'fool' may well be YOU!

My younger sister wasn't THAT academic - but has always been diligent- and went into a career in the legal  profession. She chose - LONG ago - to follow that path over settling down and having kids - preferring to be a kind aunt to her nieces. Her fellow Uni students - with whom she shared accommodation - and are still close friends - have mostly gone on to have careers - like Vets, Doctors and managed to have kids.

From a FSU  woman's perspective - according to my former Wife - coming to the west 'opened her eyes' to the possibility that the society she grew up in ( the man provides, etc) now seems flawed ..she now has her own business, provides for herself, etc., Is she a 'feminist'? - no way.






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 04, 2017, 09:36:52 PM
It was the afford part.  I don't think 10 days in Bali is cheap for anyone when you factor in rafting/zip lining etc.  I mean I know it would be a pretty major thing for me to my kids on a trip like that.  For that girl, it certainly could have been from a trip with the father or something along those lines.  Plausible.

I do know airfare is different in Europe from many of the hubs, last year I flew from Rome to Athens for $75.  Unheard of here in the USA for any flight unless you catch a SWA super sale or something.  So going to France/Spain/Turkey completely makes sense.  Even Japan/Korea in this case as they are close.

Again, I don't care about it either, I mean they are going to date guys before/after/during the discussions etc, I just wondered more about if I this is something to worry about as far as them not being sincere, and it sounds like essentially it's not.  Especially if they aren't in Ukraine or maybe Moscow/St. Pete's where there are a much higher volume of men coming through or business geared towards this industry.  The girl is most likely legit in at least the majority of what she's telling me I think (as am I).

As an aside, I would wonder if there are a large number of Korean/Japanese men involved in this foreign bride thing and how much the women would be open to that.  A girl I'm talking to says she's a florist (is that really a thing?) and will be working in Busan for 2 months. 

I mean straight up, if that was a girl from Pheonix that looks like this girl going to Vegas to be a 'florist' -- she's a stripper.  (again, i'm all for it, i just want to know the truth).  Is that even a relatively plausible thing?  My spidey sense says hell no, but wtf do I know about Vladivostok florists and Busan?  For all I know, it's a friend of their family owns a shop and she's really going to work there, its not something i'm going to grill her on.  Or maybe it's just a hope, not a certainty for her as she did say wages suck in Vladivostok and she answered an ad.   I just don't like getting fu**ed with so trying to get input.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 04, 2017, 10:00:30 PM
It is so random that I really don't  think you can say it would be an indicator of anything.
That is regardless of country or city.
Some have traveled a lot.some have been in the usa several times.

They may have had wealthy parents,  they may have had a good job, they may have worked for a travel agency or been  tour guides.
They also may have dated guys just to travel,or been escorts,
 you sure are not going to work that out because of some photos posted , is my point.
And no, interrogating someone isn't going to yield anything either lol

  You'll have to correspond and communicate enough to have a better grasp of their life, life experience and who they are.

There are no shortcuts in this.
Assumptions over things like that just limit possibilities.
There is no risk in just letting time and communication sort things out.

I met my wife through one of the worst ways. A Ppl agency, one in a city known for scams.
I don't advise that path , I'm just glad I dint rule out meeting her over concerns.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 04, 2017, 10:10:40 PM
As far as men involved,  it doesn't matter.
The reality is so very few travel,from anywhere,  that's it's not important in your own individual search.

This is a photo from my wife's agency profile.
Not one foreign man had visited her.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/922/5z98s7.jpg) (http://imageshack.com/i/pm5z98s7j)

Anyway you'll have to develop a relationship and win her heart regardless, your competition to do so is irrelevant to that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 04, 2017, 10:23:09 PM

Unbelievable! You just can't make this sh!t up, man! I guess more power to you if this is what defines you. May you find happiness within your world!

TC has some rather interesting perspectives lol


Trench,  sorry man but I just can't fathom if you are serious at times, or merely lean that way and just take it far out to get a rise.

Continuing financial and social equality has let women more readily  decide  if they'd rather be their own provider or not, and perhaps allowed choosing a partner to be more about love and friendship. So yes a tad more cough picky. Lol
Marriage purely for love is a rather recent thing in terms of history.?

Do you not see the conundrum in you not really thinking that a (western?) woman marrying more for merely love  is a good thing?

All the while sweating the possibility of a FSU woman marrying you for mere opportunity.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 12:17:43 PM
Hi Boethius

AKAIK, there's no charter holidays to Egypt from RU, still  - those going must arrange tours via Belarus - or fly via Turkey - booking direct.

Not sure on details of travel, I'm sure you are spot on,  but when I was in sharm el sheik, it was full of mostly Russian and Ukrainian tourists.
So yeah I never thought much about it to see then with photos from Egypt , or Cyprus as you well know.  :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 05, 2017, 12:32:44 PM
Jumper, Ukrainian or Russian posting?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 12:58:10 PM
Jumper, Ukrainian or Russian posting?

I'm not sure I follow exactly.
My wife is from Nikolaev, Ukraine.
The agency site the profile was on was one of the well known(And despised) PPLs based in the USA as most are.Actually it was on several big name sites.
  They all have the same business model of using affiliate local agencies in the FSU
to supply their websites content,(And allows them culpable deniability)

My point was so few men travel,  in relation to the amount of womens profiles listed, (or single women from regular fsu based dating sites)regardless whether it's to a provincial city in Russia or Ukraine, or to a more business hub like Moscow or Kyiv, that it won't matter.
 And ultimately it will still come down to you winning her heart, or not, just like domestic relationships ;)
Most women you'd meet there (anywhere in the fsu) havnt met a foreign man romantically, yes some would have, if she's still single ,why would it matter?
By far the biggest competition for any sincere woman is going to be the local men. They far out number you in any FSU city big or small . Lol


If a guy sweats a city , because of competition thst  it may have more foreign  men visiting,  he missed that train back 2 decades ago lol.
I saw piles of German businessmen in kharkiv and dnepropetrovsk back in 1999.A guy would be just  a tad late in the game to try and fish in perceived non-fished waters.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 05, 2017, 01:42:56 PM
I'm not sure I follow exactly.
My wife is from Nikolaev, Ukraine.
The agency site the profile was on was one of the well known(And despised) PPLs based in the USA as most are.Actually it was on several big name sites.
  They all have the same business model of using affiliate local agencies in the FSU
to supply their websites content,(And allows them culpable deniability)

My point was so few men travel,  in relation to the amount of womens profiles listed, (or single women from regular fsu based dating sites)regardless whether it's to a provincial city in Russia or Ukraine, or to a more business hub like Moscow or Kyiv, that it won't matter.
 And ultimately it will still come down to you winning her heart, or not, just like domestic relationships ;)
Most women you'd meet there (anywhere in the fsu) havnt met a foreign man romantically, yes some would have, if she's still single ,why would it matter?
By far the biggest competition for any sincere woman is going to be the local men. They far out number you in any FSU city big or small . Lol


If a guy sweats a city , because of competition thst  it may have more foreign  men visiting,  he missed that train back 2 decades ago lol.
I saw piles of German businessmen in kharkiv and dnepropetrovsk back in 1999.A guy would be just  a tad late in the game to try and fish in perceived non-fished waters.

Jumper, your luck was in there big time then herring a girl from not just a PPL site but also from the very heart of the 'dating industry' aka Nikolaev (Gaspar - by 'dating industry' we mean the bad side of the business). She is quite a stunner as well though I am supposing her photo is given the makeover. So how did this all go down? And how did you manage to get an agency girl from a PPL site without being burned as nearly all that try this route? Was it that there was just the attraction on meeting? Was it long ago?

Also Gaspar just to clarify Moby taking issue with my stance on holiday photos. I did say there are some exceptions such as Turkey & the like, that it is a matter of being subjective that you learn with time. Yes Russians & Ukrainians can be found all over the world but for most FSU folk it is too expensive - their focus is on daily survival not globe trotting. When you visit countries like Ukraine look around you and tune in - you will notice that with some exceptions they are not all that wealthy. If I were looking at a girls photos and she had several of places in the west then I would be cautious, if she didn't have a very high status well paid job then I would be even more cautious. There no absolute hard and fast rules as Jumpers situation shows but by not following the often resounded conceived wisdom of the consensus of members on here nearly all men fall foul, it's just the odd few get real lucky every once in a while I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 05, 2017, 01:44:40 PM
I only asked out of curiosity. A knockout like that in Ukraine I would have thought would have met more people. Not anything More than just a reference point, and I 100% understand RM thing. It's not about competition, I'm fine w that.  Power to em!

Question about total costs. What is the estimate, outside of normal costs like food, travel. What does the process cost like legal, administrative, customs, visa, translating? I saw the visa costs like 500ish? Is there a turnkey service for this?

And yeah, I'm thinking a lot of costs. As far as the domestic violence thing and support - I get this is worst case- but considering what American girls are capable of... What happens if you marry, then Get divorced quickly or dv is accused?  Is it typical that you have a prenup? How can you protect yourself short of selecting wisely? I can't imagine how awful it would be to be stuck paying for some chick that made dv charges up, or for some lawyer to come after half my stuff for what amounts to a few months of nookie.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 05, 2017, 02:37:19 PM
...or for some lawyer to come after half my stuff for what amounts to a few months of nookie.

Hear, hear :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 02:40:41 PM
I only asked out of curiosity. A knockout like that in Ukraine I would have thought would have met more people.

I dint take it any differently.  :)
I posted it exactly to show that the women just don't get the visitors you might imagine, regardless relative  attractiveness,,age, location ,that Ukraine isn't over run with foreign men.lol
Nikolaev just isn't far from Odessa, a popular tourist city.
Granted a TC asked about, her photos were a tad enhanced like all such agencies do,but still a very attractive 28yo , and men are men, and not one foreign man had bothered to go meet her, certainly thousands wrote,but none traveled.
My point remains don't concentrate on eliminating some city,country,  or region ,over such thinking. None of the things men commonly  dwell about are the real root issues.
Eliminating areas to look, when using international dating to expand your possibilities is counter productive . Dont do it.

Look for the woman, where she lives isn't the important factor in such a search.


Quote
Question about total costs. What is the estimate, outside of normal costs like food, travel. What does the process cost like legal, administrative, customs, visa, translating? I saw the visa costs like 500ish? Is there a turnkey service for this?

And yeah, I'm thinking a lot of costs. As far as the domestic violence thing and support - I get this is worst case- but considering what American girls are capable of... What happens if you marry, then Get divorced quickly or dv is accused?  Is it typical that you have a prenup? How can you protect yourself short of selecting wisely? I can't imagine how awful it would be to be stuck paying for some chick that made dv charges up, or for some lawyer to come after half my stuff for what amounts to a few months of nookie.

You need some disposable income,that's certain.
You absolutely do not need to be wealthy, that's total B.S..
Each individual will be different. A guy with a home paid for
And minimal debt load ,is in a different scenario from a guy with double the salary, but triple the debt load.
 
 You can't realistically protect yourself other than choosing wisely.
A good person, if good character isn't going to screw you over.
Take whatever time(and expense) is needed to really know  the person
 as best you can.

There are a million threads here in prenups. LOL!

I won't even go there as far as advice.its just  too individual and circumstantial regarding personal finances, whether prior children or a family business is involved, what state you reside in, etc etc etc etc etc

I'll just say I did not have one,  or need one with my ex, after 7 years we parted amicably and absolutely fairly in both parties opinion.
I do not have ,want, or need one currently either.


As far as travel, I viewed it as certainly  not her problem I choose such a long commute for a date.lol
I did not find it expensive,compared to any other vacation,
But I've lived in several countries , including eastern europe,and nothing was really new to me there
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 02:45:13 PM
Hear, hear :D


If it's viewed by the guy as a risk vs reward scenario over a few months (or years?)of sex, with a hottie, he is likely to get exactly  what he fears.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 03:09:08 PM
Jumper, your luck was in there big time then herring a girl from not just a PPL site but also from the very heart of the 'dating industry' aka Nikolaev (Gaspar - by 'dating industry' we mean the bad side of the business). She is quite a stunner as well though I am supposing her photo is given the makeover. So how did this all go down? And how did you manage to get an agency girl from a PPL site without being burned as nearly all that try this route? Was it that there was just the attraction on meeting? Was it long ago?


We have been married 6 years, initially met in 2010.

I did not post a trip report, or a how it worked out,as I don't think men should follow that path,but as I said during rwrecruiters Trip report , some have done so, several members here are married to women from Odessa or niko,after  an initial meeting on a ppl site,as poor of a method as it is.

I do think luck plays a role, but only as much as you let it ;)
  I met and married  prior,  as well,and it's not like we did not have a good relationship for several years, or some train wreck ending.
We ultimately just had different goals in life and views on priorities.
That's more  on me as her, and regardless two people can care about each other that are not truly compatible.Life happens.I matured from the experience,she did as well. Anyway, to say i just got lucky in meeting sincere FSU women twice seems a stretch, but hey, perhaps it was only luck.
:)
You'd have to throw out that i met a smart,wonderful, stunning  irish woman in 88,and married her, as just luck as well right?
Maybe I just like accents.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 05, 2017, 03:35:54 PM
I guess something is happening for you jumper though without knowing your exact situation it's not always easy to say what. At 28 your girl was like RW's in the retirement package needed age bracket for agency girls. Interesting that no one ever visited her - it probably is lowish a figure though depends if she's telling the truth. If she said no one visited then she may look less of an agency girl so less bad vibes.

I know from being to Nikolaev they don't seem to get a lot of foreigners there, a few business people from time to time and I guess guys like us. Although nearish to Odessa the airport is not operating there and it kind of feels a little desolate when compared to Odessa. Odessa too I think has a few more foreign visitors but is still mostly home crowd that go there for holidays.

Personally with pics I would much rather have personally taken unprofessional pics any time tells me so much more. Pro pics that have had any sort of make over done is almost like putting a kind on blindfold on. I think from when you were looking was coming to the end off the PPL era and onto pa monthly then free sites. I looked briefly online around 2008 and did a cheap PPL site. Did a Skype with a girl that seemed to go well but when trying to separate her from the agency (get her email things went dead). I think perhaps the agency (or a worker working on her messages probably intervened).

Gaspar, I think you asked about Asians at some point. All I will say is to many FSW they ate not that keen on them, not as in keen as Turks but still get tend to go for WM. Some if they are wealthy enough will go for anything ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 04:44:53 PM
Lol I don't take offense,  so don't worry.

A couple of things-
1. One of my wife's friends is the most popular
woman for niko in the agency. She's 36.
Another is an interpreter and popular member and 35.
Yes the agencies recruit young women as it's both were they are the most likely to get more profiles up and what many men want,but no it's not some need to retire deal for women over 26,as the agency will gladly put them up.Many of their target men are older, somewhat sensible, so are looking in an older age range than university students.

2.As far as meeting foreign men, my
Wife would have absolutely  zero reason to not be honest.
I already knew quite well the agency deal, and friends with a prior owner of one, she knew that well.
I wouldn't care even the slightest then, or now.
She's at an international dating agency, for heavens sake the entire point is to meet people.
The fact she hadn't would be of far more concern!!
We joked around easily about all kinds of things,then,and I've known her friends and family now for years, so no, lol she never met a foreigner.

The most popular one mentioned above?
Has met about 7 in a decade if being at the site.
She was seriously interested in a couple,  and was with them awhile,  but ended up not working out.


Perhaps it's niko is slightly out of the way,
But in general the bulk of women listed anywhere, in any FSU city havnt met many, if any foreign men for romance. Thru work is more likely perhaps.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on December 05, 2017, 05:38:54 PM
Quote from: msmob on December 03, 2017, 10:21:05 PM
    AKAIK, there's no charter holidays to Egypt from RU, still  - those going must arrange tours via Belarus - or fly via Turkey - booking direct.


Not sure on details of travel, I'm sure you are spot on,  but when I was in sharm el sheik, it was full of mostly Russian and Ukrainian tourists.

You are probably referring to BEFORE the Russian airliner was blown up.
Before, tons of Russians going to Egypt.
After . . . that's when the tour operators mostly stopped as Moby said.

I took a tour from Ukraine to Egypt back in 2009 or so.  Glad I got that under my belt, as I likely won't go back again.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 06:28:47 PM
Yes, it was prior to that.

At any rate ruling out people from profile, vk, odno, mamba travel photos before contacting them seems a tad over sensitive.
No one loses a limb if the initiated  conversation reveals she's just in the dating scene for travel.

Thailand was a popular destination as well?, travel photos more often than not just mean  she traveled.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 06, 2017, 12:05:25 AM
Trench, the only 'fool' may well be YOU!

My younger sister wasn't THAT academic - but has always been diligent- and went into a career in the legal  profession. She chose - LONG ago - to follow that path over settling down and having kids - preferring to be a kind aunt to her nieces. Her fellow Uni students - with whom she shared accommodation - and are still close friends - have mostly gone on to have careers - like Vets, Doctors and managed to have kids.

From a FSU  woman's perspective - according to my former Wife - coming to the west 'opened her eyes' to the possibility that the society she grew up in ( the man provides, etc) now seems flawed ..she now has her own business, provides for herself, etc., Is she a 'feminist'? - no way.

Moby, you can't nearly double the workforce & there be no affect on society. Yes some women will be able to have teir cake and eat it but the more women that become career women the leas they will be able to do this. Have a look at graphs for income publushed recently for the current generation they are earning far less than there equivalents (their parents) in the 60s, 70s & 80s - cost of buying a home has gone trough the roof too so earning less to afford housing. It's the have it all culture of women that is meaning far more in western society are losing out. It sounds all lovely that specific cases of this or tat woman have been liberated and become absolutely fabulous. Reality is for fewer & fewer women this is the case they toil away day after day in mediocre low paid first step 'career' jobs either that are dressed up with a fancy title to make them feel the part or they dress it up themselves. The guys are often in the same mind numbing numbers, poorly paid or have fallen out off the rat race. Hell even the papers back me up on this one like that article link I shared to Gaspar that stated a lot of blue collar guys are passed over by blue collar girls as they are seen as not good enough and even a fair amount of wealthy men aren't. Look what happened with you and your wife Moby, essentially she got all of that which you stated and you became not good enough. Do you think Russian society would allow that? No she admits that herself - she would have not outgrown you if you chose to live in Russia. She would still be looking up to you as the breadwinner and would know nothing of what she could get in the west. You made the mistake of letting her get on/get too familiar with how things are in the west which is why you in the end got returned to go on the FSU dating game.

We in the west are programmed with relentless propaganda promoting feminist values and we rarely realise it. We think that is the way society should be tat we are open and liberated when at the end of the day it is just socoal conditioning of  the lower orders. Just look at how feminist content pops up every so often on BBC news, it influences society and guides how it wants us all to act and think - to our benefit I think not.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 06, 2017, 07:50:59 AM
TC-
Women have been a huge part of the work force in FSU culture for decades.
I know  many women there supporting their husbands or carrying an equal load of financial family matters. My wife would certainly support us if I wasn't working.
(She has a career and education easily transferable to in demand and decent pay here, and worked here prior)

 That doesn't dispute your claims of the job market being less than the available employees, but it does show how most *blue collar* FSU women live, and think.

 On your thoughts on women entering the labor force in the west, the unemployement rate in western countries ,industrialized nbations fluctuates with economy and changes in industry from ag, to tech, etc  far more than it has over those social changes?

In Asia where women have long been a huge part if the industrial and ag. work force
The unemployement rate is seldom different, or in many cases lower than in the west?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by
_unemployment_rate#/media/File%3AUnemployment
_rate_map_of_the_world_(ILO).svg

Perhaps you have a point as the number of available workers in any  given trade vs the amount needed has to balance,  but you seem to have overlooked other factors, such as -
one person having the *earning/purchasing potential * for 2 people aspect of economy versus each individual having that potential. Yes they may both make less but spend the same or more?

I believe it to be a bit more complex than *feminism has taken jobs" lol


 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 06, 2017, 08:28:51 AM
Look what happened with you and your wife Moby, essentially she got all of that which you stated and you became not good enough. Do you think Russian society would allow that? No she admits that herself - she would have not outgrown you if you chose to live in Russia. She would still be looking up to you as the breadwinner and would know nothing of what she could get in the west. You made the mistake of letting her get on/get too familiar with how things are in the west which is why you in the end got returned to go on the FSU dating game.

 :o Shots fired.

We in the west are programmed with relentless propaganda promoting feminist values and we rarely realise it. We think that is the way society should be tat we are open and liberated when at the end of the day it is just socoal conditioning of  the lower orders. Just look at how feminist content pops up every so often on BBC news, it influences society and guides how it wants us all to act and think - to our benefit I think not.

I don't see why it's anything new. :popcorn: Fight for female rights and participation has always swung from one extreme to the other throughout history. There was a time when men could have as many wives as they could financially take care of  ;D and no woman would bat an eyelid  :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 06, 2017, 09:02:08 AM
Some cultures are still somewhat that way?

For myself I'm glad my wife is *westernized* and assimilated easily.
She is certainly far far from a feminazi, quite conservative,so I think
those type of fears are unfounded and based in inexperience
with FSU women and FSU culture.
They have been in a workforce environment for decades
and often take care of all matters of the household.
  The stereotype of a stay at home ,subservient mother
is not FSU culture, and just the marketing fodder of MOB agencies.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on December 06, 2017, 09:18:50 AM
Kyn you're dead right. Females in the UK, US, etc have been sent on a fools errand. They don't see that by pursuing a career they are scuppering their own boat. They are going all out to provide for themselves - a task that used to be handed to the man. When they get to their late twenties to early thirties they ask themselves 'where are all the good men to choose from?' Meaning guys that have/can provide for themselves. They don't like it that a man would come and sponge of the provision they have made, i.e own property, etc. They seem to not realise that ghd man was supposed to provide this. They have mare life harder for themselves and put themselves into a position where virtually no man is suitable for them. The men left are the ones they knocked out in competition to get the plum job or to get a job. They have unwittingly dug theor own grave and will have to remain in work till retirement.

It's true that many of these women get off on getting carried away with the job. Men can do but tend to see it more as a means to an end of providing the money they need for family/comfort. Women are very easy to lead on and a lot of employers see this and target this aspect. Women love a pat on the back, recognition and an idea of status - basically a facade that they are something special. All of it is meaningless but they just can't grasp the big picture. One day they are going to retire or be laid off - their employer they will find won't care as they thought. The company that told them how it cares for them in their material to its employees will find its a lot of meaningless words. Shortly after moving on they will quickly be forgotten about along with all their years of hard work.

It's unfortunate that the feminist world that offered so much back in the 70s & 80s forward has only served to bugger both sexes up and cause a lot of loniness & misery. Both sexes in the west have been set against each other hacking the cr*p out of each other only for both to end up the losers. We really need to adjust our thinking in the west as society itself is falling apart.


I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 06, 2017, 09:32:11 AM
There was a time when men could have as many wives as they could financially take care of  ;D and no woman would bat an eyelid  :P



That practice is still acceptable to a number of women. They'd allow themselves to be a mistress although they claim to want their own man. Many women would prefer to share a winner than have sole possession of a loser.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 06, 2017, 11:59:11 AM

I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.


Indeed.  Plus, it is not accurate.  I suppose Trench is unaware of the fact that most women worked long before all those "libbers" gave them options - as domestic servants (where they also had the added pleasure of being raped by their male employers), in factories, in small businesses.  In 19th century England, 2/3 of women women worked for wages.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on December 06, 2017, 02:53:39 PM
Trench back at it again?  Dude needs to learn how to simplify his thoughts.  Every post he does is 10 rambling sentences.  He seems to like to hear his own voice much more than those who have the actual experience and success in this endeavour.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 06, 2017, 04:36:10 PM
I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights depths indeed.

Try this version...  8)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 06, 2017, 06:51:14 PM

I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.

I think it is Manny & A Fi  who created this idiot  & are trying to destroy this forum !! ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 06, 2017, 07:19:52 PM


Also Gaspar just to clarify Moby taking issue with my stance on holiday photos.
  :shock: :ROFL:

Not just me, Trench - do try to be accurate.. and take good advice on board...

I did say there are some exceptions such as Turkey & the like, that it is a matter of being subjective that you learn with time. Yes Russians & Ukrainians can be found all over the world but for most FSU folk it is too expensive - their focus is on daily survival not globe trotting. When you visit countries like Ukraine look around you and tune in - you will notice that with some exceptions they are not all that wealthy. If I were looking at a girls photos and she had several of places in the west then I would be cautious, if she didn't have a very high status well paid job then I would be even more cautious. There no absolute hard and fast rules as Jumpers situation shows but by not following the often resounded conceived wisdom of the consensus of members on here nearly all men fall foul, it's just the odd few get real lucky every once in a while I think.

Even more Trench bollox.. you've simply ignored the sensible comments from members FAR more experienced than you.

I know PLENTY of FSU lasses that have been to Italy, Spain, Dominican Republic, Cuba and paid for that holiday of a life-time with their own graft.

It was also pointed out to you that they may indeed have been trips paid for by guys with whom they may actually have been in a LTR or even with their former husbands - but you chose to 'overlook' those pertinent points in your 'advise'  ..

Then again, the trip may have been paid for by 'winners' :sick/vomit:

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 06, 2017, 07:23:47 PM

I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD. New heights indeed.

Oh, I don't know - the post that followed yours wasn't far behind..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on December 07, 2017, 09:34:36 AM
I think it is Manny & A Fi  who created this idiot  & are trying to destroy this forum !! ;D


No. Actually that would be you. They banned your butt from the site knowing full well you'd come here. As for TC, he's definitely prone to be a fool on the hill, but he had single-handedly increased the board's traffic. For every post he makes, his minions and followers, like you and that walking infectious disease, tags 10-15 posts thereafter.


At least TC composes his own thoughts when he post/s, abominable as some of them may be, unlike your predictable copy/paste stupidity.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 07, 2017, 09:59:18 AM

 For every post he makes, his minions and followers, like you and that walking infectious disease, tags 10-15 posts thereafter.


At least TC composes his own thoughts when he post/s, abominable as some of them may be, unlike your predictable copy/paste stupidity.

Have you been on the pop, while missing the mrs, GCB?

'Thoughts'? - more like a pubescent man-child....    That you might even 'support' him does you 'credit'   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on December 07, 2017, 02:22:02 PM
Have you been on the pop, while missing the mrs, GCB?

'Thoughts'? - more like a pubescent man-child....    That you might even 'support' him does you 'credit'


 :ROFL:


See what I mean? But by now I'm sure you caught the drip, ooppps, drift. POP and all that jazz...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 07, 2017, 08:19:49 PM
Well that escalated quickly...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 07, 2017, 11:12:22 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 09, 2017, 02:26:20 PM
I do make a lot of classic errors.  I rambled a lot because i was excited.  What I was saying is that the dating sites are fun.  I know that some are scammers, but it's fun to learn how they work.  I'm not at the point of getting any attachment to any of them (this is like day 4) so maybe we'll talk about how fun getting catfished is after a few months. 

As far as the other cities, can you help me out here.  What exactly are you saying?  I grew up cold war, Russia scares me a little, but if you're saying that those larger cities in the interior are great for this, please help me, post some links and such for me to read up on please!

I also watched the loveme movie with David Arquette ... the movie movie.  not the one Trenchcoat referenced (more documentary)  I'll watch it though.

and I'm not talking about ever doing the PPL thing.  That's just crazy. I'm just talking about girls on the sites.   

Gaspar, here's the link to the You tube video I was talking about, its a guy that follows a tour and is allowed to video it and document it, interview the guys and girls involved. Its nice and short and good for a laugh, I don't think this group is running tours anymore though. The video is good as I think it shows you do get some serious women on the tours and some of the guys that turn up aren't always the best.

The Desperate Western Men Hunting For Wives In Ukraine
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wW7c58nMI4&t=237s

Now I'm not suggesting tours are the way to go, they can be bad places to look for a sincere girl. I think though this video gives an good insight into the dating scene out there in general from both perspectives, I think you'll get a pretty varied lot through dating websites even if it is a less dodgy place to look.

ps. if you tube link doesn't work just pop in the title in you tube search and it should come up.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 09, 2017, 11:31:40 PM

Nah...not with one too many hen plucking.

No feathers were ruffled - let alone plucked - dream on

Heck, even prompted Dan to write a post dedicated only to him.

Are you so dense to recognise to whom to are referring to, now  .... many years later ?...



Lot's of hatchets buried - since then

Get over yourself, wee maun






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: gaspar227 on December 10, 2017, 08:37:05 AM
Loved the video Trench.  However dated it is, it's odd to see the duallity of everything said.  I especially liked the scene with the interpreter and the guy told to sing Hotel California.  LOL, that was amazing. 

I had a question about something that seems to be a theme from GQBlues and hinted at by jumper.  FSUW here in the USA that are looking.

Are there resources dedicated to accessing them?  I mean I know match.com and all that, but it's such a grind. 

Thanks!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 10, 2017, 08:55:32 AM
Loved the video Trench.  However dated it is, it's odd to see the duallity of everything said.  I especially liked the scene with the interpreter and the guy told to sing Hotel California.  LOL, that was amazing. 

I had a question about something that seems to be a theme from GQBlues and hinted at by jumper.  FSUW here in the USA that are looking.

Are there resources dedicated to accessing them?  I mean I know match.com and all that, but it's such a grind. 

Thanks!

I know it is here too, lol. Generally I think the FSW found on Match/already here are looking to trade up. You might strike it lucky and find one that is genuinely into you/had a bad experience with the bloke she got with. In general though I view them as the bad girls, the immigration whores, etc.

I know Elena's Models (EM) tends to have a fair few of them, I'm not sure off other sites though.

Yeah that's a pretty funny vid ain't it. I thought the girl in the brown top in Nikolaev seemed quite sincerely genuine so goes to show some genuine women turn up. I also thing the young slightly drunk local dude in the awful light green shirt is correct a lot of the women out there want stuff (material goods. i.e clothes). The guys out there cannot hope to buy these goods for these hotties and so many look to foreign dating as their only option. If you're lucky you may get one who isn't and/or who is into you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 10, 2017, 03:08:10 PM
Another example of Trench's hilarious viewpoints ..

ANYONE taking this guys 'advice' ,,, based on his 'experience' of FSU W ....good luck  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 26, 2017, 04:06:47 PM
That said a woman with a child will normally greet a WM warmly with legs wide open. They will unlikely get any other guy visit them so they can't afford to be fussy. Local guys see them as only fit for a good lay anyway


In addition to the vulgarity, how do you know this to be a fact?  From the vast numbers of married FSUW you dated?  From your (2?) weeks on the ground speaking to these women and the men who "lay" them?


There are at least two FSUW posting here who had children when they married WM.  Ask them if they would "normally greet a WM warmly with legs wide open".
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 12:00:39 AM
No, you didn’t figure out FSU society.

If life is so horrible, an FSUW can work abroad, as millions of Ukrainians do. Many of the countries in which they work, such as Poland, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland, offer them paths to citizenship. You assume women are trapped and WM are their sole means of leaving the FSU. That may have been true 20 years ago, but it hasn’t been for a long time.

Life in Russia is not difficult for most single mothers.

Most work in Poland illegally, despite the recent travel agreementioned with Ukraine it did not include right to work. Some may go to these countries and get in either by getting with a local guy or meeting immigration requirements. Few will be able to meet these immigration requirements though. It's well known knowledge the plight of the single mother in the FSU.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 12:20:09 AM
No, you are wrong. Anyone who is connected to the Ukrainian community knows this. Both Spain and Portugal, for example, have had at least one amnesty that I know of for illegal immigrants, with a path to citizenship. I know several Ukrainians in Ireland who were there illegally but obtained citizenship. One, when discovered, was told to apply for residency and she would be on the path to citizenship. She asked if her husband could join her. She was asked if he “looks like you” (i.e. white) and when she answered affirmatively, they said no problem. Today, both she and her husband are Irish citizens.

Anyone who has lived in Poland for 3 years, has a stable income, and can speak Polish is eligible for Polish citizenship. In addition, Ukrainians with Polish ancestry are eligible to obtain a Polish passport. Romania was giving any Ukrainian who applied a passport for years.

Over 1 in 10 Ukrainians hold a foreign passport. They are not trapped in the country, as you suggest.
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 12:24:43 AM
It's well known knowledge the plight of the single mother in the FSU.

What, exactly, is that plight?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 01:19:13 AM
No, you are wrong. Anyone who is connected to the Ukrainian community knows this. Both Spain and Portugal, for example, have had at least one amnesty that I know of for illegal immigrants, with a path to citizenship. I know several Ukrainians in Ireland who were there illegally but obtained citizenship. One, when discovered, was told to apply for residency and she would be on the path to citizenship. She asked if her husband could join her. She was asked if he “looks like you” (i.e. white) and when she answered affirmatively, they said no problem. Today, both she and her husband are Irish citizens.

Anyone who has lived in Poland for 3 years, has a stable income, and can speak Polish is eligible for Polish citizenship. In addition, Ukrainians with Polish ancestry are eligible to obtain a Polish passport. Romania was giving any Ukrainian who applied a passport for years.

Over 1 in 10 Ukrainians hold a foreign passport. They are not trapped in the country, as you suggest.

And Russians?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 01:37:50 AM
They also aren’t trapped in Russia. Life there is fairly stable. A lot of Russians who move abroad return to Russia.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 03:06:45 AM

A good husband knows how to communicate with his wife and take care of her needs.

You know BillyB - you can carry on thinking being good at dating means being a good husband...'coz he 'communicates'...

I know plenty of quiet guys who are happily married to their (attractive ) woman...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 04:58:37 AM
Most work in Poland illegally, despite the recent travel agreementioned with Ukraine it did not include right to work. Some may go to these countries and get in either by getting with a local guy or meeting immigration requirements. Few will be able to meet these immigration requirements though. It's well known knowledge the plight of the single mother in the FSU.

... pray do tell where you learnt this latest piece of Trench " I read it on the net - so it must be true" ?

Really, most posts of yours should carry a "I'm an expert on posting nonsense", warning

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 27, 2017, 05:40:50 AM
I know plenty of quiet guys who are happily married to their (attractive ) woman...

Quiet as in socially (introvert)? Or were you trying to imply a quiet character inside and out? Just a tad confused.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 05:43:57 AM
Quiet as in socially (introvert)? Or were you trying to imply a quiet character inside and out? Just a tad confused.

My 'bad' - not extrovert ...just quietly confident
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on December 27, 2017, 05:46:13 AM
My 'bad' - not extrovert ...just quietly confident

Ah like a gentleman :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 10:30:03 AM
Well here are a couple of reports on the issues:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28191326

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27422743


It shows that some do get caught/refused and sent back and that it is becoming a real burden for the EU. Its one of the main reasons we left the EU since the EU have been far too slow to react and effectively deal with this situation. Hungary has done a sterling job of countering EU ineptness and shortsightedness but the EU are intent on all of its nations being overwhelmed by illegal immigrants so that life becomes a misery for all. By leaving the EU we will steadily be able to get to grips with this problem. Sure a few will gain citizenship but European countries can only accommodate so many, as these articles show many will be turned back. Deluding ourselves that Ukraine & Russia are anything but poor nations with poor people living their lives does not alter the situation. Many that do become refugees do not qualify for any benefits in the European countries they get into, they have to try and get any work they can if they can, if they can't they have a big problem. Even the first girl I met from Mariupol told me she did not want to become a refugee - it is not seen as admirable for them even living a somewhat poor lifestyle. For sure some are proud of who they are and where they live even if it is a life of poverty and drudgery, a refugee lifestyle is seen as worse as at least their lifestyle is stably poor rather than totally uncertain. They are looking for a direct path to citizenship not an uncertain journey with the hope of an administrative circumstance specific loophole in a European nation. I think Ukraine would soon empty of almost all people if immigration to a EU nation was really that easy. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 10:52:01 AM
Poor Trench,

Your 'evidence' is 3 year old news ..since when the EU has granted visa free travel within Schengen  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 01:42:31 PM
Poor Trench,

Your 'evidence' is 3 year old news ..since when the EU has granted visa free travel within Schengen  :ROFL:

One of the reports is three years old the other is this year. Free travel within schengen has nothing to do with this. This is about those coming to live & work illegally within the EU. Keep up Mobers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 01:54:16 PM
I mean are you telling me that these girls in the FSU live comfortably and contently where they are even though by what you say could apparently move to an EU nation under a immigration system where they are accepted in a back door manner can earn more though apparently live similar lifestyle to back home and have access to many more guys so not have to wait for all these guys that are messaging them to visit them but chose to stay put and do it that way anyway even though they have far fewer guys to choose from. Hmmn yeah sure that makes sense :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 02:09:18 PM
One of the reports is three years old the other is this year. Free travel within schengen has nothing to do with this. This is about those coming to live & work illegally within the EU. Keep up Mobers.

So, we can dispense with the three-year old links - as Ukrainians are free to travel within the Schengen zone, right ?

Does 'keeping up' involve pointing out BOTH articles were indeed  three years old ?

Perhaps, before 'banging heads' a little fact checking might be in order ...?

Can you get ANYTHING, right ? ;)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 02:26:30 PM
So, we can dispense with the three-year old links - as Ukrainians are free to travel within the Schengen zone, right ?

Does 'keeping up' involve pointing out BOTH articles were indeed  three years old ?

Perhaps, before 'banging heads' a little fact checking might be in order ...?

Can you get ANYTHING, right ? ;)

Yet you fail to answer the statement above tat shows the absurdity of what you are saying. The above is what you are saying isnt it? That they stay put depite being able to get what they want through back door immigration. Even with all the problems of inflation, conflict in the east, employment problems, problems with local men, problems with WM visiting, unpleasant areas where they live, etc. Answer me that one?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 02:43:45 PM
You assume everyone wants to live exactly as you do, and that emigration, rather than a happy family life, is why they are looking abroad.  That is the first fault in almost all that you post.  It permeates your thinking, and is partly why I don't think you will be successful in this endeavor.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2017, 03:28:03 PM
Yet you fail to answer the statement above tat shows the absurdity of what you are saying.

Deflecting from the repeated lack of evidence' now ?

Please..... show us something RECENT to back up your nonsense contention..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 03:41:31 PM
You assume everyone wants to live exactly as you do, and that emigration, rather than a happy family life, is why they are looking abroad.  That is the first fault in almost all that you post.  It permeates your thinking, and is partly why I don't think you will be successful in this endeavor.

I want a happy family life too. All I'm saying to Moby is that theoretically a girl stands a better chance of finding a western man in the west. I really don't think that she would not just travel to the west to increase her odds if it was that easy to do so. The girl I last met earned around $/£100-150 a month in retail. The first girl I met worked in a travel agency and I think earned similar money, well put it this way she needed me to pay for her train travel & hotel room for the week. Now if it was really that easy to move to the west and meet more guys and earn more money by the back door why wouldn't they do it. After all the end game for many western guys they meet is that they will move to the west anyway. Sure I think the girls I met wanted a happy family life but I don't think back door immigration was really a possibility for them. I think a lot of the women want out of their dreary lives in addition to wanting a happy family life. Where they are particularly if they have a child offers little happy family life or comfortable living. Single mothers out there will take any path to get to the happy family life and comfortable living they can hence my earlier phrase.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 03:45:55 PM
 :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:


You don't get it.  They are not looking for life abroad solely to find a better material life.  They are not moving to Western countries on their own to find a man.  Most who move abroad are already married, or have been married, and are not working abroad to find a man. 


Why do you assume their lives are "dreary"?  And what, exactly, is "dreary"?  The inability to buy cheap goods, such as Tommy Hilfiger shirts?  The inability to buy a cheap perfume?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 04:28:06 PM
:wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:


You don't get it.  They are not looking for life abroad solely to find a better material life.  They are not moving to Western countries on their own to find a man.  Most who move abroad are already married, or have been married, and are not working abroad to find a man. 


Why do you assume their lives are "dreary"?  And what, exactly, is "dreary"?  The inability to buy cheap goods, such as Tommy Hilfiger shirts?  The inability to buy a cheap perfume?

Tommy Hilfinger shirts are not cheap, they cost several times the cost of a normal shirt and once on you wouldn't know the difference. One of the things that narks me is having to trawl through having to buy all this consumer cr*p that I don't really give a toss about but apparently is needed in dating FSW.

What I am saying is that many FSW aren't doing it for a better material life but they see it as in with a happy family life. Some women I think us western men need to be dubious off. The last girl I was with for instance wanted me to go through all the hassle of getting her a visa so she could come to the UK. Yet it would have been way easier for us to meet anywhere in Ukraine even in most of Europe yet she refused that point blank, does that sound like a girl intent on a happy family life to you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 04:36:42 PM
Tommy Hilfiger polos are, on average, $50. That’s cheap.

Perhaps the girl wanted to see how you live in order to determine if you’re a serious man.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 05:05:23 PM
Tommy Hilfiger polos are, on average, $50. That’s cheap.

Perhaps the girl wanted to see how you live in order to determine if you’re a serious man.

For you maybe but for many guys in the UK that is half a day's wages, now on its own that is not a problem but buy a few shirts, shorts, trousers of that sort of brand and it all adds up and soon you've spent a week maybe two weeks wages. The way she shopped is like you do that nearly every day, I cannot afford to see all my wages just go on clothing alone I have other bills and stuff to buy. Besides I see no point in spending $50 on a polo shirt when you could by one for $10 elsewhere in an everday wear shop or even 3 polo shirts for $50. What exactly is this polo shirt for $50 supposed to do for me? Have girls dropping to their knees around me at the sheer marvellousness of seeing me in it! It just sheer stupidity.

See how I live? I live like most people in the UK in a bog standard house. Its terrace and not large, yes I own it and you could bring up a family in it but while it is not necessarily cramped its stuck within a lot of other terrace houses. So am I rich, by many Ukrainian standards maybe, even by some very poor people in the UK but generally no I am not. So if she is after a rich man she would be severely disappointed by me and many guys in the UK, similar situation in the US I hear from guys on here, most are not at all wealthy. Yet sounds like she needs to see that I am wealthy or I am not 'serious' lol - well that's a interesting way of putting it and yet she is just looking for happy family life? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 05:11:27 PM
You chose to buy that girl clothing.  She wasn't taking you to Dolce & Gabbana, or Valentino, she took you to a cheaper end clothier.  The amount you agreed to spend is on you, not her.  She didn't know if that was a significant amount for you. 


As for how you live, I don't mean materially.  I mean the rhythms of your life, and how she would fit into them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 05:27:18 PM
You chose to buy that girl clothing.  She wasn't taking you to Dolce & Gabbana, or Valentino, she took you to a cheaper end clothier.  The amount you agreed to spend is on you, not her.  She didn't know if that was a significant amount for you. 


As for how you live, I don't mean materially.  I mean the rhythms of your life, and how she would fit into them.

Yeah but surely it is reasonable for the guy to want to see her for more than just two weeks before that bridge is crossed? I mean demanding it and blocking any further meeting to get to know each other better is just creating a problem/hurdle/block in the relationship call it what you will.

Theoretically yes I agreed, I thought it would make her happy and would be content but she just wanted more and more all the time despite my protests. I should have put my foot down more firmly I know that now, I wanted to satisfy both of us but buying her stuff just damaged our relationship greatly I feel. Most of the shops that were around was selling that sort of price clothing it wasn't really the sort of place where there was a lot of reasonable price clothing stores. There was one or two but despite me liking the dresses in there she passed over these (not just for the price either). I get the impression she would tend towards the designer label stuff quite a lot and for me I would find this a pain, a nice dress to me is a nice dress it can be bought quite cheaply. Again like said before I think many FSW think WM are made of money and it grows on tree's. She should have gotten the idea from my protests that I did not really want to go in these designer label shops but I think she didn't care at all. Just seems callous to me.

I isn't it possible to just meet someone on this venture get on well and be into each other and enjoy being in a relationship together without all this weirdness of needing to go on bizarre shopping sprees.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 05:34:30 PM
Yeah but surely it is reasonable for the guy to want to see her for more than just two weeks before that bridge is crossed? I mean demanding it and blocking any further meeting to get to know each other better is just creating a problem/hurdle/block in the relationship call it what you will.


Or is it telling her she is not important enough to you to share your life with her?  She may have taken your refusal as evidence you are not serious about her.  All she was to you was a roll in hay.

Quote
Theoretically yes I agreed, I thought it would make her happy and would be content but she just wanted more and more all the time despite my protests. I should have put my foot down more firmly I know that now, I wanted to satisfy both of us but buying her stuff just damaged our relationship greatly I feel.


If this damaged your relationship, then you didn't have a relationship to begin with.  Just a mercantile exchange.


Quote
Most of the shops that were around was selling that sort of price clothing it wasn't really the sort of place where there was a lot of reasonable price clothing stores. There was one or two but despite me liking the dresses in there she passed over these (not just for the price either). I get the impression she would tend towards the designer label stuff quite a lot and for me I would find this a pain, a nice dress to me is a nice dress it can be bought quite cheaply. Again like said before I think many FSW think WM are made of money and it grows on tree's. She should have gotten the idea from my protests that I did not really want to go in these designer label shops but I think she didn't care at all. Just seems callous to me.


You were weak.

Quote
I isn't it possible to just meet someone on this venture get on well and be into each other and enjoy being in a relationship together without all this weirdness of needing to go on bizarre shopping sprees.


I am fairly certain the vast majority of men here who married did not go on shopping sprees.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2017, 05:56:20 PM

Or is it telling her she is not important enough to you to share your life with her?  She may have taken your refusal as evidence you are not serious about her.  All she was to you was a roll in hay.


If this damaged your relationship, then you didn't have a relationship to begin with.  Just a mercantile exchange.



You were weak.


I am fairly certain the vast majority of men here who married did not go on shopping sprees.

Yes I accept that I was weak as I should have just rejected all of the clothes shopping advances. I know to do that now but at the time I made the mistake of thinking it would not be a continuous problem if I just bought her a few things. I was wrong.

I would like to think our relationship was not just a mercantile exchange, I think though that it felt like that the more I gave into her shopping habits, again this was a mistake which damaged our relationship or at least it felt like that from my perspective - I wanted to spend time with her on her hobbies and interests and talk to her to get to know her not stand around all day in clothes shops.

There may have been something in the sharing my life with her, I understand that she did not want to with me until she had seen mine because if my life did not suit the fall out would be embarrassing to her, talk where she lives, etc. She failed to see it from my perspective though that we are not ready to for that stage yet we need to get to know each other better. It was not the case of her being a roll in the hay for me, I am out after a serious relationship, a happy family. For me her doing her shopping spree showed me she was more interested in that than looking to be with me in a serious family relationship. I mean why would you want to keep peeing off the guy you are with if he is protesting about your clothes buying if you want a serious family relationship?

I've no doubt many of the guys on here did not do shopping sprees, I made an error of judgement I will not be making again. The fact that she will not compromise to meet up again is not a great place to be really I mean getting a visa for the UK is a serious pain in the ass.

But yes I guess its possible that we distrust and misunderstand each other so much from different perspectives and have great difficulty understanding each other. I may have misunderstood that his is what she wanted and the problems of me visiting her but how am I supposed to know. She I think was overzealous in distrusting me and not understanding my issue with being told she did not want me to visit first that I would take that as an insincere intention of having dubious motives for taking up this stance. Again how an I supposed to know? I'm a foreign guy and I know nothing of the intricate workings of how life is over there. I mean couldn't she see it from my perspective at all, I tried to tell her my perspective on it even if it did seem distrustful I thought at least she would discuss it with me. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2017, 09:16:55 PM
You didn't have a relationship.

You were sleeping with her, but were not at the stage where she could come and visit you?  So what role did she, exactly, play in your heart?  It seems to me none.  You weren't even willing to attempt to obtain a visa for her because it is a "PITA".  Yup, seems to me like a relationship made in heaven.

You are not supposed to "know".  You are supposed to feel it in your heart.  The fact you didn't, and still regret spending money, suggests to me you never had strong feelings for her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 12:24:39 AM
You didn't have a relationship.


You were sleeping with her, but were not at the stage where she could come and visit you?  So what role did she, exactly, play in your heart?  It seems to me none.  You weren't even willing to attempt to obtain a visa for here because it is a "PITA".  Yup, seems to me like a relationship made in heaven.


You are not supposed to "know".  You are supposed to feel it in your heart.  The fact you didn't, and still regret spending money, suggests to me you never had strong feelings for her.

I don't regret spending money but I do see the clothes shopping as getting in the way and ending up as something we could have done without at least the extent it became. There was no happy medium on that one. I'm guessing that she was not enough into me to agree to another visit elsewhere even if she thought I was just doing it for the sex so it works both ways. A girl who truely loved someone would agree to it even if she was dubious of that being the reason the guy wanted to meet up again. It isn't it's to get to know her better to have a relationship as you put it which we could have been doing were it not for her strolling off into shops all the time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 12:47:07 AM
I don't regret spending money but I do see the clothes shopping as getting in the way and ending up as something we could have done without at least the extent it became. There was no happy medium on that one. I'm guessing that she was not enough into me to agree to another visit elsewhere even if she thought I was just doing it for the sex so it works both ways. A girl who truely loved someone would agree to it even if she was dubious of that being the reason the guy wanted to meet up again. It isn't it's to get to know her better to have a relationship as you put it which we could have been doing were it not for her strolling off into shops all the time.

OMG

Trench, do you ever pause to think what you write before hitting 'post' ?

1/ You took a plane to meet someone
2/ You paid for a holiday in a third country
3/ She wanted to see how you lived - which would have been entirely possible- if she had waited to prove a durable relationship

Love never came into it - you 'resented' her 'tests of your seriousness' and you should have learnt a lesson about dating a young FSU W

You didn't and don't 'get it' and you're arguing with a FSU W...  about FSU W ..  You are getting golden help - you refuse to see it.

Please start absorbing and stop offering 'advice' to newbies - when you are so demonstrably clueless - despite 'hints'




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 28, 2017, 01:01:57 AM
I’m not a FSUW. But I do know a number of them, most of them married to FSUM, and a slight majority live in the FSU, with zero desire to leave. Including a number of single mothers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 01:08:29 AM
OMG

Trench, do you ever pause to think what you write before hitting 'post' ?

1/ You took a plane to meet someone
2/ You paid for a holiday in a third country
3/ She wanted to see how you lived - which would have been entirely possible- if she had waited to prove a durable relationship

Love never came into it - you 'resented' her 'tests of your seriousness' and you should have learnt a lesson about dating a young FSU W

You didn't and don't 'get it' and you're arguing with a FSU W...  about FSU W ..  You are getting golden help - you refuse to see it.

Please start absorbing and stop offering 'advice' to newbies - when you are so demonstrably clueless - despite 'hints'

I agree entirely withappy the 1, 2 & 3 points that you state so where exactly do we differ? I both went on plane to meet her and agreed to holiday with her I enjoyed it despite the over the top shopping trips. So I met at least two of her tests I showed up and showed commitment and a wish to spend time with her. The third I would have met had we fit to know each other more so at the right time yes. I don't resent doing any of this nor wish to take it back. I think I made mistakes when J was with her and I think she should have thought what was more important to her having marriage & family of shopping. I think resent would be too strong a word to my feelings about her shopping more displeased that she disregarded my position on the subject. I appreciate Boethius is enlightening me that I might have got this girl wrong but I still am unsure on it. It's just a bizarre situated mean whatever happened to just dating and getting to know & be with each other.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 28, 2017, 01:49:38 AM
Trench all these concerns are over anyway, now you're concentrating on women your own age, but I think you should be getting on skype soon as the woman I'm chatting with said she would never meet a man who she didn't have a good connection with online first. If you have only been chatting with young women who aren't established in life, I think you will have an eye opening experience. I think you're passing up your greatest asset by not chatting with women right now. Women your age are an entirely different kettle of fish. You're probably going to be dealing with women who are divorced and have seen the worse of what can occur in a  relationship, they will be cautious, it might take months online to be comfortable with you and open up.
Mine isn't out shopping today..... She woke at 6am and baked all morning, now she's at a fund raiser for the local orphanage, that pretty much sums up her selfless personality and the way she was raised. She couldn't care less for designer clothes and material possessions, she'd probably donate them to the needy : )
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 02:52:38 AM
I’m not a FSUW. But I do know a number of them, most of them married to FSUM, and a slight majority live in the FSU, with zero desire to leave. Including a number of single mothers.

Point taken re your status..!

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on December 28, 2017, 03:29:34 AM
I mean getting a visa for the UK is a serious pain in the ass.


such bullshit, I took Tanya to London to do some Christmas shopping, it took the travelagency 7 days to obtain a Visa for her and the cost was about $150.
one bank statement and a deceleration of employment was all that was needed. and taadaaaa and she got her visitor visa.

Now I know, 150 bucks are way to much for you to spend on something like this, that is most likely the reason you say its a pain in the ass...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 06:04:44 AM
such bullshit, I took Tanya to London to do some Christmas shopping, it took the travelagency 7 days to obtain a Visa for her and the cost was about $150.
one bank statement and a deceleration of employment was all that was needed. and taadaaaa and she got her visitor visa.

Now I know, 150 bucks are way to much for you to spend on something like this, that is most likely the reason you say its a pain in the ass...

Her bank statement & declaration of employment or yours? The girl I was last with did not have a bank account and her job was very low pay, it also like many Ukrainians apparently not on the record for tax purposes - i.e the black economy. So it would be down to me to apply with my financial background for her.

Anyway, she quickly started looking for another guy online when the situation came to loggerheads of whether I visit her or she me. Her dating profile started showing activity on a daily basis and she didn't even tell me. I do not take that as a good sign. It tells me she would easily go behind my back be deceitful and she is not that into me.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 06:13:45 AM
Trench all these concerns are over anyway, now you're concentrating on women your own age, but I think you should be getting on skype soon as the woman I'm chatting with said she would never meet a man who she didn't have a good connection with online first. If you have only been chatting with young women who aren't established in life, I think you will have an eye opening experience. I think you're passing up your greatest asset by not chatting with women right now. Women your age are an entirely different kettle of fish. You're probably going to be dealing with women who are divorced and have seen the worse of what can occur in a  relationship, they will be cautious, it might take months online to be comfortable with you and open up.
Mine isn't out shopping today..... She woke at 6am and baked all morning, now she's at a fund raiser for the local orphanage, that pretty much sums up her selfless personality and the way she was raised. She couldn't care less for designer clothes and material possessions, she'd probably donate them to the needy : )

Thanks Davo well according to the guys on here a woman will often meet up with a foreign guy if in her city as it is covenient for her to do so. Note meet up rather than string of dates though that may come. I think I need to see other women to see how I feel. A materialistic one is a real pain in the bum. It's nice to hear your story of this woman Davo as it shows they are not all like that. My concern with the one I had is that her shopping habits would be a constant problem if she came over here. I still kind of like her even with all her issues but there may be a better fit out there for me and yes one who displays better values like you have seems more a preferably situation to be in :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on December 28, 2017, 06:23:45 AM
Her bank statement & declaration of employment or yours? The girl I was last with did not have a bank account and her job was very low pay, it also like many Ukrainians apparently not on the record for tax purposes - i.e the black economy. So it would be down to me to apply with my financial background for her.

Anyway, she quickly started looking for another guy online when the situation came to loggerheads of whether I visit her or she me. Her dating profile started showing activity on a daily basis and she didn't even tell me. I do not take that as a good sign. It tells me she would easily go behind my back be deceitful and she is not that into me.
so........ you mean your finances are so bad you cant even support a woman coming to visit?
then, how do you intend to take care of a woman if she decides to move in with you?
All your cheap comments about finances is starting to clear up a bit here, and the reason why you want her to start working day 1 and take care of herself..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 07:10:20 AM
so........ you mean your finances are so bad you cant even support a woman coming to visit?
then, how do you intend to take care of a woman if she decides to move in with you?
All your cheap comments about finances is starting to clear up a bit here, and the reason why you want her to start working day 1 and take care of herself..
No my finances are fine but the whole process is a lot of form filling and paperwork on my side. It's just far easier for me to jump on a plane and visit her in Ukraine all visa free. I don't see why there has to be such an ordeal about it all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Maxx2 on December 28, 2017, 08:25:25 AM
so........ you mean your finances are so bad you cant even support a woman coming to visit?
then, how do you intend to take care of a woman if she decides to move in with you?
All your cheap comments about finances is starting to clear up a bit here, and the reason why you want her to start working day 1 and take care of herself..


Just put her to work as a cashier at the local liquor store and perhaps a job cleaning office buildings at 4 AM. That would work. These are Rooska women. They are the human version of the honey badger. Honey badgers don't care and neither would they.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 28, 2017, 12:14:06 PM
No my finances are fine but the whole process is a lot of form filling and paperwork on my side. It's just far easier for me to jump on a plane and visit her in Ukraine all visa free. I don't see why there has to be such an ordeal about it all.


So she wasn't important enough to you to fill out a bit of paperwork. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 12:44:18 PM
I wish to 'defend' Trench ! :o

The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less  FSU W is pretty hopeless

To get a visa Trench would need to put money into her account - regularly - and guarantee her return - showing more than enough funds to look after her and keep her

He would not have got the lass in - unless she built up funds over - say 6 months..AND they showed a durable relationship



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 01:49:31 PM
I wish to 'defend' Trench ! :o

The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less  FSU W is pretty hopeless

To get a visa Trench would need to put money into her account - regularly - and guarantee her return - showing more than enough funds to look after her and keep her

He would not have got the lass in - unless she built up funds over - say 6 months..AND they showed a durable relationship
:shock: Wow! Mobers it really is Christmas :D I never thought I would see the day when you would come to my defense on this forum :D I had dreamed and hoped but finally this day is here :clapping: When I read first line I thought it was going to be the start of a back handed slap but no you really did come through for me :o I shall treasure this moment always :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 02:22:10 PM
:shock: Wow! Mobers it really is Christmas :D I never thought I would see the day when you would come to my defense on this forum :D I had dreamed and hoped but finally this day is here :clapping: When I read first line I thought it was going to be the start of a back handed slap but no you really did come through for me :o I shall treasure this moment always :D

'Defense' .....?   That is the second time you've used US English spelling / or a US-terminology that NO Brit would use.....

Hmm...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 28, 2017, 03:15:14 PM
I wish to 'defend' Trench ! :o

The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less  FSU W is pretty hopeless

To get a visa Trench would need to put money into her account - regularly - and guarantee her return - showing more than enough funds to look after her and keep her

He would not have got the lass in - unless she built up funds over - say 6 months..AND they showed a durable relationship

It's funny the conversation has gone in this direction today. Last week I was expecting to be meeting her at the airport this afternoon. Now all I have planned is a BBQ at a mates and a few beers . Why??? ... Her visa was denied, despite covering all bases except the fact we  hadn't met in  person. I could accept this if that's the reason, but where she failed was infuriating!!!
She has an excellent well paying job by Russian  standards and a letter stating she was required to return to work in 12 days. She had plenty of cash in her bank. She showed she owned property in Russia. Also she has a letter from a girlfriend who worked for my government in Russia and now my country, vouching for her character. She has two children in her care and she showed she had travelled to other countries on her passport.
My embassy in Moscow obviously discovered our secret plan.... She was going to give up her executive job, leave her luxury apartment and abandon her children so she could hide out here and pick up seasonal work as an illegal fruit picker  :wallbash:......
So yes it was denied as she didn't show enough proof that she would return  home, in reality this was probably the strongest aspect of her application. Basically I suspect because  I was going to provide transport and accommodation, we  put our relationship as friends, but never met and it was denied.
So now we are meeting in Indonesia, in several  months and if all goes well Russia several months after that.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 03:27:40 PM
'Defense' .....?   That is the second time you've used US English spelling / or a US-terminology that NO Brit would use.....

Hmm...

I speak UK English my mobile speaks US English. What can I say, I don't always get my way :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 03:39:48 PM
So yes it was denied as she didn't show enough proof that she would return  home, in reality this was probably the strongest aspect of her application. Basically I suspect because  I was going to provide transport and accommodation, we  put our relationship as friends, but never met, it was denied. So now we are meeting in Indonesia in several  months and if all goes well Russia several months after that.

Exactly as you and Mobers demonstrate it can be a real problem. Granted different countries but similar visa systems. I've visited her etc so have that to put forward assuming they accept the evidence I put forward on this. Even then as Moby points out its not an easy task made almost impossible because of her situation. Over time it might be possible to work something out but it's a long shot and no walk in the park. I tried explaining this to her till I was blue I'm the face but she just repeatedly refused to accept it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on December 28, 2017, 04:42:37 PM
It's funny the conversation has gone in this direction today. Last week I was expecting to be meeting her at the airport this afternoon. Now all I have planned is a BBQ at a mates and a few beers . Why??? ... Her visa was denied, despite covering all bases except the fact we  hadn't met in  person. I could accept this if that's the reason, but where she failed was infuriating!!!
She has an excellent well paying job by Russian  standards and a letter stating she was required to return to work in 12 days. She had plenty of cash in her bank. She showed she owned property in Russia. Also she has a letter from a girlfriend who worked for my government in Russia and now my country, vouching for her character. She has two children in her care and she showed she had travelled to other countries on her passport.
My embassy in Moscow obviously discovered our secret plan.... She was going to give up her executive job, leave her luxury apartment and abandon her children so she could hide out here and pick up seasonal work as an illegal fruit picker  :wallbash:......
So yes it was denied as she didn't show enough proof that she would return  home, in reality this was probably the strongest aspect of her application. Basically I suspect because  I was going to provide transport and accommodation, we  put our relationship as friends, but never met and it was denied.
So now we are meeting in Indonesia, in several  months and if all goes well Russia several months after that.

Weren't you warned to have her avoid telling of relationship (of any kind) with  a man in your country?

We have issued plenty of warnings here over the years on this topic.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on December 28, 2017, 04:59:29 PM
Not sure on the whole VISA thing. I was under the impression it was a thing of the past for the most part. All the women we know get them pretty easily these days. My wife has never even had her passport stamped entering the UK. They just motion her right through.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 28, 2017, 05:29:10 PM
Weren't you warned to have her avoid telling of relationship (of any kind) with  a man in your country?

We have issued plenty of warnings here over the years on this topic.

 Yes!!! And I had even done some of the  warning. What let me down was calling the visa department and being told she had an excellent case and it didn't matter that we hadn't met, it's better to be honest.... That was bad advice. Next attempt we should have spent almost a month together (if we get along after our first meeting) and I won't risk it, I'll hire a visa specialist to write her application

As it turns out, it was probably for the best. Yesterday my car did a rear engine seal (we planned to drive 4000km ) Last night my house air conditioner stopped working and an hour ago my father was admitted into hospital with suspected blood poisoning, he's not in a good way.

A romantic week on a tropical island seems a much better idea than what I originally planned  ;)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 28, 2017, 07:02:41 PM
Yes!!! And I had even done some of the  warning. What let me down was calling the visa department and being told she had an excellent case and it didn't matter that we hadn't met, it's better to be honest.... That was bad advice. Next attempt we should have spent almost a month together (if we get along after our first meeting) and I won't risk it, I'll hire a visa specialist to write her application

Now here is the catch --   now the dept will say-- "oh a relationship -- she will overstay visa conditions and not return" !! ;D  Catch22 is alive and well
Ya gotta remember-- these are public servants making these decisons !

A FWIW BTW --if anyone has not read Catch 22 -- I highly recommend  it --just make sure you slog through the early part to actually "get" the humour. This book will make you laugh out loud.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 07:23:28 PM
Not sure on the whole VISA thing. I was under the impression it was a thing of the past for the most part. All the women we know get them pretty easily these days. My wife has never even had her passport stamped entering the UK. They just motion her right through.

If she has had one before then they probably consider the fact that she visited and returned to home country within the allotted time presumably. Thus proving that she had the intention to return, the more she does this the harder it would be for border control to turn her down on that basis unless they found something to the contrary or chose to get anal with something out of a sudden bout of fussiness. Possible your ladies are quite wealthy in their own right, etc. I'm not saying it would be impossible to get a girl like I was with through if application put in right and preparation of paperwork sufficient but as Moby correctly say "The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less FSU W is pretty hopeless". Now no doubt they use a tick box style formula to match every application off against so to avoid being subjective but no doubt also some perhaps give a little more leniency depending on who see your application though theoretically it is no doubt supposed to be consistent across the board.

The girl I was with did not believe a word of any of this, she was adamant that getting a visa for her would not be a problem. The number of times I tried to go over the problems with her but to no avail I think maybe my earlier suggesting Cyprus might have made her distrust anything I say with hindsight. I think distrust in the relationship on both sides was yet another issue and most probably we are probably both straight up just reading distrust in perfectly reasonable decisions.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 28, 2017, 07:50:18 PM
I know plenty of quiet guys who are happily married to their (attractive ) woman...



Quiet guys are usually happy to be married to anybody. Apparently you don't know how their wives feel.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 28, 2017, 08:36:39 PM
Now here is the catch --   now the dept will say-- "oh a relationship -- she will overstay visa conditions and not return" !! ;D  Catch22 is alive and well
Ya gotta remember-- these are public servants making these decisons !

A FWIW BTW --if anyone has not read Catch 22 -- I highly recommend  it --just make sure you slog through the early part to actually "get" the humour. This book will make you laugh out loud.

Ohh... the fun and games I have ahead of me!!!  ;)

Honestly, I've lived in my city for 22 years and the only Russians I've met are  my elderly  neighbours. I can imagine Chinese,  Asian  and even British, may blend in and be difficult to find, but a stunningly attractive Russian woman, with a thick accent would stand out like dogs balls and be tracked down in a matter of days, especially in my state with a small Russian population.
It seems one might have to get engaged before you might have a chance of bringing her here.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on December 28, 2017, 08:38:48 PM
If she has had one before then they probably consider the fact that she visited and returned to home country within the allotted time presumably.

Possible your ladies are quite wealthy

The girl I was with did not believe a word of any of this, she was adamant that getting a visa for her would not be a problem.

Yes, most have already traveled and have stamps, so at that point it is much easier. Well, my wife flies into a private FBO, so different, but the UK is one of the very few countries that has not checked her. A bit odd.

I do believe you guys that some are still turned down for x reason, but not like it used to be. Most go visit the guys these days instead of the man going to her town.

She did not believe it because all the women talk to each other. I bet she has friends that have visited and she probably thought you were lying or hiding something.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 09:15:30 PM

Quiet guys are usually happy to be married to anybody.

'Sure' they are...

Apparently you don't know how their wives feel.

'Sure', BillyB and you do... :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 10:25:50 PM
Ohh... the fun and games I have ahead of me!!!  ;)

It seems one might have to get engaged before you might have a chance of bringing her here.

Exactly the situation I was in with my last girl and the UK, in the UK while there are conditions she must meet on top off marriage (like taking an English Language test, etc) the hurdles are generally easier gotten over, so marriage in such a situation. Plus your doing it for the long term with a visit it similar if not greater hassle for a short stay then have to do it again for marriage in the future. So that was a lot of the reason I proposed to meet her in Kherson or another country and live together for a while so we knew how we would get on more better actually living together before marriage. Apparently though there are all sorts of oddities of being in her home city and the like that make this a no-go with many a Ukrainian/FSU girl. Common sense though it seems to us men, lol.

So there I am checkmate, I cannot get her to see reason in how the situation is from my end try as I might. I mean the girl you are going out to meet your going to want to get to know her better before marriage. Hell, even if you rushed straight headlong into marriage the wedding would have to take place somewhere, if your girl is anything like many FSW then her hometown will be out of the running, lol. FSW seem devoid of reason on this matter though, at least mine was, I hope yours won't go that way as other wise where is one supposed to get together, the moon!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 10:54:01 PM
Exactly the situation I was in with my last girl and the UK, in the UK while there are conditions she must meet on top off marriage (like taking an English Language test, etc) the hurdles are generally easier gotten over, so marriage in such a situation. Plus your doing it for the long term with a visit it similar if not greater hassle for a short stay then have to do it again for marriage in the future. So that was a lot of the reason I proposed to meet her in Kherson or another country and live together for a while so we knew how we would get on more better actually living together before marriage. Apparently though there are all sorts of oddities of being in her home city and the like that make this a no-go with many a Ukrainian/FSU girl. Common sense though it seems to us men, lol.

So there I am checkmate, I cannot get her to see reason in how the situation is from my end try as I might. I mean the girl you are going out to meet your going to want to get to know her better before marriage. Hell, even if you rushed straight headlong into marriage the wedding would have to take place somewhere, if your girl is anything like many FSW then her hometown will be out of the running, lol. FSW seem devoid of reason on this matter though, at least mine was, I hope yours won't go that way as other wise where is one supposed to get together, the moon!

Trench,

I see you are back to making 'BS' excuses ...

You had met her twice and were already complaining about her 'needs' re shopping.....    It was a trainwreck waiting to happen.

A more mature lass would have realised that getting the first UK visa - if not employed - would mean proving commitment and durability on both your parts.

Finally, you need to use the past tense in her regard - she has moved on and 're-advertising' her availability

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 28, 2017, 10:56:49 PM
Ohh... the fun and games I have ahead of me!!!  ;)
 tracked down in a matter of days, especially in my state with a small Russian population.

It seems one might have to get engaged before you might have a chance of bringing her here.

Tracked -- this is public servants we are talking about  -- nothing happens that fast !! ;D


Engaged--  then the paperwork nightmare really starts !! What is worse -- guess who you get to deal with again ! Yep-the very same public "service" ! ;D

Can she swim? It seems that all the advantages goes to the swimmers -- not the legitimate applicants !! ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 10:58:20 PM
Yes, most have already traveled and have stamps, so at that point it is much easier. Well, my wife flies into a private FBO, so different, but the UK is one of the very few countries that has not checked her. A bit odd.

I do believe you guys that some are still turned down for x reason, but not like it used to be. Most go visit the guys these days instead of the man going to her town.

She did not believe it because all the women talk to each other. I bet she has friends that have visited and she probably thought you were lying or hiding something.

How did you know that? :o Lol, your dead right, you've hit it square on the bullseye. Yeah she though I was lying and hiding something its exactly how she was with me. She came out with the, 'you just don't want me to visit because of ....blah, blah, blah, - accusations of having kids, being married, etc. She just could not get away from this though no matter how much I tried to convince her otherwise. She would only accept seeing my life in the UK in person as proof, Huh.

Your right again that women talk to each other and I didn't realise how powerful an influence that can be on a girl. She apparently has a lady friend that lives in the UK with the guy she met, she's married to him, that's how she got the idea to date a foreign guy so she tells me. Anyway, her friend I think is a fair bit older in her thirties at least I believe and because she told her 'I got in ok (whether it was for visit or marriage who knows) hence the same will be true for you also' - well something along those lines. Anyhow  of course that makes me the liar as firstly I'm a guy which obviously makes me a greater 'player' than Hugh Heffner ::) and secondly how could her friend that she has know for longer than me and being a female automatically being on her side be wrong. Her brief look on the UK borders agency website told her only what she wanted to see and could not register all the problems that I tried to tell her would likely/almost certainly come up. She would not accept she was not in a good position to get through the visa process, that was my responsibility apparently. Anyway the last message I received from her was a demand of 'where is my visa and tickets, I come to you when you have them' For some as you rightly state it can happen that simply but for most low paid peeps in FSU no way are they just going to let in millions of Russians by rubber stamping visas like there was no tomorrow. I think she just refuses to ignore the reality of the situation she has got it into her head that is how it is and no one is going to change her mind.

Flying into private airport terminals are no doubt a bit different as often used by the rich and famous so if shes able to go through there they probably take it as read that she's more than wealthy enough. I doubt that is an option for even many of us WM, lol.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 11:08:04 PM



Flying into private airport terminals are no doubt a bit different as often used by the rich and famous so if shes able to go through there they probably take it as read that she's more than wealthy enough. I doubt that is an option for even many of us WM, lol.

Trench, still referring to this lass in the  present tense ?

Remember - your ex can easily travel to Schengen nations, now - that includes France.  Folks regularly fly from Le  Touquet to small UK airports.  You must declare who is on board and their nationality.  Same for yachts... though I can see how this could be abused.

http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html (http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html)



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 28, 2017, 11:08:49 PM
Trench,

I see you are back to making 'BS' excuses ...

You had met her twice and were already complaining about her 'needs' re shopping.....    It was a trainwreck waiting to happen.

A more mature lass would have realised that getting the first UK visa - if not employed - would mean proving commitment and durability on both your parts.

Finally, you need to use the past tense in her regard - she has moved on and 're-advertising' her availability


Note  Trenchcoat has hijacked another  thread == made it about him again with posts not appropriate to that thread .

I said it before -- but ALL  his posts made anywhere ought to be moved to his very own thread -- after all-- he keeps repeating the same nonsense

Moby--- chances are ( and this is presuming any of what he has said is actually true) that she smelt the tight arse rat he is and was applying her own testing system  eg she wanted to know what his living circumstances were/are .   And/or what his real intentions were.  And all that presumes she was the slightest bit interested in him-- which I highly doubt.

Honestly -- such a pile of such triviality hardly warrants reexamining   -- he is just too thick to "get " the points repeatedly made directly to him.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 11:25:56 PM
Trench, still referring to this lass in the  present tense ?

Remember - your ex can easily travel to Schengen nations, now - that includes France.  Folks regularly fly from Le  Touquet to small UK airports.  You must declare who is on board and their nationality.  Same for yachts... though I can see how this could be abused.

http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html (http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html)

Yeah, she briefly suggested anywhere in EU (Schengen) apart from Cyprus as she though Cyprus economy was in a hole like Ukraine. I know it was but it looked like to me this had mostly all been gotten over and it was by no means in any sort off way like Ukraine's economy. Anyway, I thought this was a breakthrough so I suggested somewhere like Copenhagen, as it has a high percentage of English speaker and I had been there so know its a nice place, think a few Russians there also. Well she backtracked on this don't know why but from what Alex has said it I wouldn't mind betting its her 'friend(s)' putting their bit in and messing things up.

I'm not currently communicating with her and haven't been for a few months but still have her on Skype, etc. hence the tense.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 28, 2017, 11:44:37 PM

Note  Trenchcoat has hijacked another  thread == made it about him again with posts not appropriate to that thread .

I said it before -- but ALL  his posts made anywhere ought to be moved to his very own thread -- after all-- he keeps repeating the same nonsense

Moby--- chances are ( and this is presuming any of what he has said is actually true) that she smelt the tight arse rat he is and was applying her own testing system  eg she wanted to know what his living circumstances were/are .   And/or what his real intentions were.  And all that presumes she was the slightest bit interested in him-- which I highly doubt.

Honestly -- such a pile of such triviality hardly warrants reexamining   -- he is just too thick to "get " the points repeatedly made directly to him.

No it is you who doesn't get it Jay, this is not about my relationship (or however its deemed) with this girl per-say its about the perspectives and interactions WM and FSW have of each other. If we fail to understand the FSW mentality, perspective and what is happening countless mistakes can happen over and over again. The stuff we are discussing here is valuable not only to OP in this endeavour but also many lurkers. If OP is aware of this stuff when he goes to the FSU to see a girl then he may do a lot better as a result.

Have you ever asked yourself why you are still without success years into this endeavour? All of what we are discussing here may help you :)

I think we are making huge leaps and bounds here beyond previous discussions of what was going on here. Its an incredibly complex topic and I'm not sure whether you have the capacity to absorb precisely all what is being discussed here. This isn't a exercise for neanderthals to go and club a girl and bring her back to his cave but a need to understand what all these interactions really mean in her mind/world.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 29, 2017, 12:10:20 AM
No it is you who doesn't get it Jay, this is not about my relationship (or however its deemed) with this girl per-say its about the perspectives and interactions WM and FSW have of each other. If we fail to understand the FSW mentality, perspective and what is happening countless mistakes can happen over and over again.

Quite...you here you are - STILL making excuses.... you were told and didn't listen - please absorb and stop offering bollox 'advise' to newbies
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 29, 2017, 12:16:36 AM
Can she swim? It seems that all the advantages goes to the swimmers -- not the legitimate applicants !! ;D

It might come to that!!

Doesn't the saying go "Russian woman can stop a galloping horse, enter a burning house and swim the Timor sea" ?  ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 29, 2017, 12:45:27 AM
Thankyou to the Mod that moved the TC piffle  !!! :clapping:

To the idiot TC-- the forum does not need your endless never learning repetitive posts to help anyone  -- and you conclude I don't "get" it !!  sheesh.


No it is you who doesn't get it Jay

Have you ever asked yourself why you are still without success years into this endeavour? All of what we are discussing here may help you :)


Now you comment on me again-- for the umpteenth time much the same attempt to insult,provoke.
You have responded that way to at least half a dozen others when they are critical of you  -- and in most of those case -- and mine -- you are completely off beam - just plain wrong.It is a pathetic response --from a clearly pathetic incompetent person ( note-I do use the term man).
You look at the status on the left-- and then go ahead with crazy presumptions  about what they mean-- with little or no understanding . It is seriously stupid,
Your personal comments to me-- and others-- that you have NO knowledge of -- just highlights what a dill you are.
Some here have met me in real life ,some know a lot more about me - but-- because I and others choose not to write about that in real time -- you make inane presumptions that some who do write - know or offer "better" advice etc etc It highlights  how stupid you really are.

Some have commented that you are bullied here-- my answer-rubbish !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 29, 2017, 12:46:48 AM
this is . . . out the perspectives and interactions WM and FSW have of each other. If we fail to understand the FSW mentality, perspective and what is happening countless mistakes can happen over and over again. The stuff we are discussing here is valuable not only to OP in this endeavour but also many lurkers. If OP is aware of this stuff when he goes to the FSU to see a girl then he may do a lot better as a result.


I believe you are mistaken.  At the end of the day, you are connecting with a person, not a culture. If you can't connect with the person, the culture is irrelevant.


Quote
Have you ever asked yourself why you are still without success years into this endeavour? All of what we are discussing here may help you


Jay is in a long term relationship.  He has posted that in the past. 


Quote
I think we are making huge leaps and bounds here beyond previous discussions of what was going on here. Its an incredibly complex topic and I'm not sure whether you have the capacity to absorb precisely all what is being discussed here. This isn't a exercise for neanderthals to go and club a girl and bring her back to his cave but a need to understand what all these interactions really mean in her mind/world.

No, it isn't complex.  IMHO, you focus far too much on the "why".  What you should be focusing on is the who - who is this woman, and how will this woman fit in my life?  Are her values compatible with mine? All the other stuff you focus on is just background noise, irrelevant in the grand scheme of building a life together.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 01:32:39 AM


No, it isn't complex.  IMHO, you focus far too much on the "why".  What you should be focusing on is the who - who is this woman, and how will this woman fit in my life?  Are her values compatible with mine? All the other stuff you focus on is just background noise, irrelevant in the grand scheme of building a life together.

If Jay is in a LTR he should change his status from 'looking' otherwise people that don't know him will take it as that obviously.

As can be seen with the case of the last girl I was with there was a lot of issues and distrust on both sides that got in the way. Even Moby defends me on the situation with the visa. As far as I'm concerned it should be a case of ok we meet up do stuff together and enjoy ourselves and then arrange a follow up meet at another place that is easy & convenient to both and the relationship progresses over time. Should be as simple as that. Not for me though I get all this BS about her wanting a visa or she won't see me if I visit her err? Wall had a girl seemed to be on solid ground with her then all of a sudden BS about a problem with dogs. Dogs are generally not as big a problem in the west as in Ukraine we find out. Each time we uncover different aspects of Ukrainian society and we can gain a better understanding of what the problem is. I never in my wildest dreams would imagine a girl would be deemed a prostitute for going into a hotel with a guy but in Ukraine apparently so. Imagine what a western guy thinks hearing that for the first time. He'll think is she having me on, mental or a bit weird, is she messing me about and should I move onto another girl rather than this nutter. So to me I think these cultural issues need a bit better understanding either side or the situation like I had with the last girl will crop up - both will distrust and disbelieve each other and end up with total misunderstanding of each others situation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 29, 2017, 01:43:31 AM
Dogs, and pets in general, are not an issue in Ukraine. My husband’s family had a dog. After he emigrated, they had a Siamese cat. Our neighbours had both cats and dogs. The issue was with the particular woman. It’s not a cultural issue.

How many WW would be comfortable going to the hotel room of a man they don’t intend to have sex with?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 02:09:02 AM
Dogs, and pets in general, are not an issue in Ukraine. My husband’s family had a dog. After he emigrated, they had a Siamese cat. Our neighbours had both cats and dogs. The issue was with the particular woman. It’s not a cultural issue.

How many WW would be comfortable going to the hotel room of a man they don’t intend to have sex with?

Well they may go there intending to have sex but in the west that does not make her a prostitute. She may be a girlfriend, long term partner, friend with benefits, recent aquaintance who is up for it, a one night stand, etc. But none of them mean she is a prostitute in the west just because she shares the same hotel room. Some girls might not even be their for sex at all, a cousin, friend going to see a concert together, a business partner needing a quick stop over. In the west as you no doubt know we don't deem it our business to know why a guest is in a hotel/what they are doing, they just are. They are so many reasons and so many stays in so many hotels and so much staff turnover that making an issue out of it would be utter sillyness.

Possibly some issues are people based and some cultural. The main thing is that they are issues that crop up during FSU dating that need to be dealt with in order to make a go of it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 29, 2017, 02:11:57 AM
Most of it is common sense. A woman says she doesn’t want to go to your room-no big deal, move on. It’s not a game changer.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 29, 2017, 03:32:49 AM
Most of it is common sense. A woman says she doesn’t want to go to your room-no big deal, move on. It’s not a game changer.
As I have written many times previously-- staying in a hotel is no big deal . The views proffered by some here are old hat -dated. As Mrs B said above --no different to the west in same circumstances .  ie no big deal.

I have had literally hundreds of visitors -friends, girls ,guys ,children  who I have met in hotel common areas and at times- come to my room.Some social,some business ,sometimes just to quickly collect or check   something-sometimes for hours- normal things and no big deal.

I have often stayed in apartments too, some with a concierge far more intrusive than any hotel -- I also should add -- there are many variations to all these titles eg the rise of the apt-hotel combination ! 
All that is to say that there are more ways & places to stay than an Air bnb remote booking! By far my most important point-- get places that you inter act with people-- I have met a large number of people at hotel breakfast! I can see no point in hiding away in an apartment because you can do your own washing!!! :deadhorse:

My last point here-the information I offer is current ( and I am pretty confident that only a someone with permanent residency has spent more time in Ukraine)  -- and not 10 years old.Ukraine today -- has seen many changes over the last decade -- and now at an accelerating pace.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 29, 2017, 04:40:13 AM


As can be seen with the case of the last girl I was with there was a lot of issues and distrust on both sides that got in the way.

Based on your taking her on hols after meeting once - hardly surprising ?

Even Moby defends me on the situation with the visa.

I only explained it's hard for unemployed, young women -with no property...  to get  UK Visa ...   :D

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 29, 2017, 04:41:56 AM
As I have written many times previously-- staying in a hotel is no big deal .

..and it was nonsense then and now... you had real life instances of the issues involved and chose to ignore them ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on December 29, 2017, 06:04:29 AM
Trench, you been on F.dating lately?
In 2 minutes I found a handful of  naturally beautiful woman all around 38, with low views for the time they have been on there. I wouldn't be spending so much time here when there's quality woman like these online  ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 02:37:23 PM
..and it was nonsense then and now... you had real life instances of the issues involved and chose to ignore them ...

I will defend you on this one Mobe :D

Two of the girls I went to meet refused to stay or meet me in hotel in Ukraine because they did not want to be seen as prostitutes. This was in the last year or so and still seems to be a common hang up there. I was shocked when reading message from the girl I went to see in Nikolaev that stated this hotel prostitute thing. She was so adamant and stubborn on not meeting me inside the hotel/restaurant. I just couldn't believe what I was reading, so bluntly put as well, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 03:03:55 PM
Trench, you been on F.dating lately?
In 2 minutes I found a handful of  naturally beautiful woman all around 38, with low views for the time they have been on there. I wouldn't be spending so much time here when there's quality woman like these online  ;)

Hi Davo, well quality women fortunately seem to be in abundance out there but they seem to have certain ways about them. Understanding this I think is key to the task. I think a lot of guys myself included mess up chances by not understanding the girl they are in a relationship with/girl they meet. Some girls may be a more natural fit for the guy others may be a more difficult task. I think the girl also often misunderstands the guy. So in this respect the guy needs to have the foresight/perception to see what is really happening rather than what it looks like is happening. With little knowledge of how the girl views the process I has little idea.

Well yes it is about time now to start setting about this for the new year. Generally I am going to pick them up over there as I'm too busy with work commitments for the next three months to do much in the way of Skype. I'm looking forward to re-engaging with this shortly :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 29, 2017, 03:29:34 PM
Based on your taking her on hols after meeting once - hardly surprising ?

It was something she pushed for and I liked the idea of being on holiday with her. Generally I liked being with her on holiday but yes it was a big mistake doing it so early on. I made more mistakes on holiday with her that I didn't realise I was making until too late. I think it led to distrust. I think for her part she was trying to push the relationship along too quickly and her haste wanting to come here too soon set off alarm bells with me and I think I may have wrongly jumped to the wrong conclusion now that was all that was staring me in the face at the time. Even still her insistence on a visa that she mistakenly thinks she can easily get seems to be condemning that relationship. Looks like she trusts her friends voice more than mine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 30, 2017, 01:49:08 PM
quality women fortunately seem to be in abundance out there but they seem to have certain ways about them.



Quality women are in demand and they can afford to be choosy. They aren't desperate. Even if some women are desperate, they aren't going to jump out of a bad situation into another bad situation.

Look at all the international dating sites and marriage agencies. Most of those women will not get married to a foreign man. Most men who go over there will not find success either. Some of those women in demand go on dates with 50 men and would not marry any of them. They will marry eventually but to a quality man. While some men struggle to land a woman, any woman, quality men have a lot of women to choose from and can get married easily. If you're in the category of struggling, you need to make some adjustments in your life or you will continue to question what went wrong after every women you met.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 30, 2017, 02:37:56 PM

Quality women are in demand and they can afford to be choosy. They aren't desperate. Even if some women are desperate, they aren't going to jump out of a bad situation into another bad situation.

Aren't you are forgetting that there are nearly the same number of quality guys out there..?  That's natures way..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 30, 2017, 03:04:04 PM
If Jay is in a LTR he should change his status from 'looking' otherwise people that don't know him will take it as that obviously.

As can be seen with the case of the last girl I was with there was a lot of issues and distrust on both sides that got in the way. Even Moby defends me on the situation with the visa. As far as I'm concerned it should be a case of ok we meet up do stuff together and enjoy ourselves and then arrange a follow up meet at another place that is easy & convenient to both and the relationship progresses over time. Should be as simple as that. Not for me though I get all this BS about her wanting a visa or she won't see me if I visit her err? Wall had a girl seemed to be on solid ground with her then all of a sudden BS about a problem with dogs. Dogs are generally not as big a problem in the west as in Ukraine we find out. Each time we uncover different aspects of Ukrainian society and we can gain a better understanding of what the problem is. I never in my wildest dreams would imagine a girl would be deemed a prostitute for going into a hotel with a guy but in Ukraine apparently so. Imagine what a western guy thinks hearing that for the first time. He'll think is she having me on, mental or a bit weird, is she messing me about and should I move onto another girl rather than this nutter. So to me I think these cultural issues need a bit better understanding either side or the situation like I had with the last girl will crop up - both will distrust and disbelieve each other and end up with total misunderstanding of each others situation.

Many people would have the mistrust issues in a long distance beginning relationship,  even within the same culture and country.

Trust is the foundation, you have to be open to it as well.if you dated a woman on th e other end of your island, oddsx are you both might have trust issues initially, it's inherent in many people.

As I've said often, sel f confidence is something you need to craft and work towards if you don't have it.
It negates a big portion of those issues you run into, and it's an attractive trait to women.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 30, 2017, 03:15:28 PM
If you're in the category of struggling, you need to make some adjustments in your life or you will continue to question what went wrong after every women you met.

What makes up a quality man and what adjustments are needed to be done?

Presumably women are after different types of men though I agree that those that come across as quality in a certain way will get women easy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 30, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
Aren't you are forgetting that there are nearly the same number of quality guys out there..?  That's natures way..


I said eventually those woman in demand will eventually marry a quality guy. Do the math.  :wallbash:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on December 30, 2017, 03:24:17 PM

What makes up a quality man and what adjustments are needed to be done?

Presumably women are after different types of men though I agree that those that come across as quality in a certain way will get women easy.

A "quality man" is different things to different women.  To some, it is six pack abs.  To others, it's a big bank account.  To others, it is a man who is intelligent.  To yet others, it is a man who can provide for a family and will be a good father.  You can't define it because different women have different perspectives, just as different men have different perspectives.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on December 30, 2017, 03:34:14 PM
What makes up a quality man and what adjustments are needed to be done?



There is enough information here and around you in real life to get the answers you need. Look around you. See who has success and how they act. I regularly give advice here. Some people think it's garbage, live by different beliefs and will have different results. Even I can't please everybody. I don't want to be the most popular guy in the world but if I can just be appealing to 10% of the women out there, I'll be a very busy guy......unless I date only one woman and chances are I'd be lonely. So look around you and see what guys are doing well with women, business and in life and make some changes if you want things to change.


Presumably women are after different types of men though I agree that those that come across as quality in a certain way will get women easy.




Some people think they don't need to make improvements and people should accept them the way they are. They don't want to move forward in life. Those who continue to be a better person today than they were yesterday are going to be labeled winners. You can be on the outside watching winners win wondering why you're so unlucky or you can be in the inside enjoying the life of a winner.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on December 30, 2017, 04:11:46 PM
What makes up a quality man and what adjustments are needed to be done?

Presumably women are after different types of men though I agree that those that come across as quality in a certain way will get women easy.

Absolutely each woman ,or man, will have their own  various beliefs in what's the best partner for them.

If you want to put a cultural spin on it, and shoot fgir what the majority will generally want, ask the fsu women here for a consensus

Good luck with that though.


My guess, and mind you it's just a guess as even living in the FSU doesn't make any one know very  much, is that it's far more family based than you might believe (certainly from your posts)
If you are normal looking, normal character, no wacky traits , and enjoy family as an equal contributor in child raising and would make a good father,-
 living in the FSU you would need a stick to beat off all the women trying to marry you or babushkas trying to fix you up.

 :cluebat:

Or maybe I'm just more charming than I previously thought, and modest too.
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 30, 2017, 05:14:15 PM
Trenchcoat   in action saving a penny? ;D




‘Fare-Dodger’ Gets Willy Stuck In Barriers At Tube Station


A man found himself in a pretty sticky situation when he tried to dodge the London Underground fare by jumping over the barriers.

The unidentified man was captured on camera screaming in pain and creating a massive scene at Covent Garden station, after he trapped his manhood in the gates.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/video/fare-dodger-gets-penis-stuck-in-barriers-at-tube-station/
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on December 30, 2017, 07:06:38 PM
While Trenchcoat persists in believing that he is "saving" some "poor" girl  who should jump at him in gratitude it is relevant to have a look at his world. ! :)

Perhaps Trenchcoat might note -as he looks through his "pink" glasses !
To quote from the article --
"After all, one person’s tranquil paradise is another’s tedious, muddy purgatory."


England’s 10 Worst Towns To Live In Have Been Announced


‘Lucky’ runners up are as follows: Scunthorpe, Rochdale, Bradford, Gravesend, Sunderland, Oldham and Blackpool.

I admit I was particularly surprised at Blackpool being listed, which I fondly recall as having a shabby, spangly charm about it.

I’m sure I’m not the only person from Lancashire who enjoyed being driven through the lights as as kid – a night made complete by an oversized bundle of candy floss.

However, one resident has urged: ‘Don’t come here, don’t bring your family here, don’t save your hard earned cash to holiday here cos all you gonna get is, robbed, hassled, spat at’.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/life/englands-10-worst-towns-to-live-in-have-been-announced/
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 30, 2017, 07:20:22 PM

England’s 10 Worst Towns To Live In Have Been Announced

Dover at number one seems a bit harsh, and certainly Hull at number two is nonsensical.  I can't believe that my candidate for the most depressing town I saw in England (Bolton) doesn't make the list!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 30, 2017, 07:51:21 PM
Trenchcoat   in action saving a penny? ;D




‘Fare-Dodger’ Gets Willy Stuck In Barriers At Tube Station


A man found himself in a pretty sticky situation when he tried to dodge the London Underground fare by jumping over the barriers.

The unidentified man was captured on camera screaming in pain and creating a massive scene at Covent Garden station, after he trapped his manhood in the gates.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/video/fare-dodger-gets-penis-stuck-in-barriers-at-tube-station/

That's not me honest ;D I'm a white guy!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 30, 2017, 07:54:50 PM
While Trenchcoat persists in believing that he is "saving" some "poor" girl  who should jump at him in gratitude it is relevant to have a look at his world. ! :)

Perhaps Trenchcoat might note -as he looks through his "pink" glasses !
To quote from the article --
"After all, one person’s tranquil paradise is another’s tedious, muddy purgatory."


England’s 10 Worst Towns To Live In Have Been Announced


‘Lucky’ runners up are as follows: Scunthorpe, Rochdale, Bradford, Gravesend, Sunderland, Oldham and Blackpool.

I admit I was particularly surprised at Blackpool being listed, which I fondly recall as having a shabby, spangly charm about it.

I’m sure I’m not the only person from Lancashire who enjoyed being driven through the lights as as kid – a night made complete by an oversized bundle of candy floss.

However, one resident has urged: ‘Don’t come here, don’t bring your family here, don’t save your hard earned cash to holiday here cos all you gonna get is, robbed, hassled, spat at’.

http://www.unilad.co.uk/life/englands-10-worst-towns-to-live-in-have-been-announced/

I live in the south of England as I have stated before (and no not in or near Dover), so nowhere near those northern sh*teholes, though I hear they have spruced a few up a bit since their de-industrialization in the 80s & 90s.

Now remaber who this thread is supposed to be about :D :rules:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on December 30, 2017, 11:04:47 PM
Dover at number one seems a bit harsh, and certainly Hull at number two is nonsensical.  I can't believe that my candidate for the most depressing town I saw in England (Bolton) doesn't make the list!

I hope Ste doesn't read that ! )

..and Hull has just been 'our' city of culture ;)

http://www.hull2017.co.uk/ (http://www.hull2017.co.uk/)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 31, 2017, 12:20:08 AM
the most depressing town I saw in England (Bolton)
Where the 2nd pet shop is located ;D?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE&hd=1
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on December 31, 2017, 10:33:12 AM
My vote goes to Boston. It would not surprise me if C. S.Lewis had this city/town in mind when he wrote The Great Divorce.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on December 31, 2017, 10:45:03 AM
I do not think I've read such complete crap in my 10 years of reading RWD.

Trench Coat, Waiting for something on the stove to cool down. I read some 10 pages or so of this thread. . . It is amazing and yet also sad. For what it is worth a variety of members representing different viewpoints can give you common sense advice and you willfully disregard and diminish it. My guess it does not fit your narrative, no matter how off kilter it is.

What is amazing is that there are posters who believe your reality and perspective.

What is sad that any normal woman from the former Soviet Union who comes in contact with you will be turned off from meeting further Western men.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 02:29:37 AM
For what it is worth a variety of members representing different viewpoints can give you common sense advice and you willfully disregard and diminish it. My guess it does not fit your narrative, no matter how off kilter it is.

What is sad that any normal woman from the former Soviet Union who comes in contact with you will be turned off from meeting further Western men.

Trench just doesn't listen point blank.  tons of posters gave him advice from before during his trips. he is back to square one talking about using VK and "photography" as ways to meet women.  He won't go and Skype them, and makes all kinds of excuses.

He lives a mere 2 hour flight away from Moscow or Kiev. he should be on a plane any chance he gets. The holidays were just here, a huge opportunity. but oh well, his life, his way...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 03:08:32 AM
Trench just doesn't listen point blank.  tons of posters gave him advice from before during his trips. he is back to square one talking about using VK and "photography" as ways to meet women.  He won't go and Skype them, and makes all kinds of excuses.

He lives a mere 2 hour flight away from Moscow or Kiev. he should be on a plane any chance he gets. The holidays were just here, a huge opportunity. but oh well, his life, his way...

 :ROFL:

Points well made ... But if you can tell me the airline that can get me to Moscow as fast as two hours - I'll do weekends, too ! ;)

Man-Moscow - no direct flights anymore... average time 8 hours

Lon-Moscow is fours hours

The fastest possible back from Sochi is 13 hours .. 8 hours there
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 12:20:52 PM
Trench just doesn't listen point blank.  tons of posters gave him advice from before during his trips. he is back to square one talking about using VK and "photography" as ways to meet women.  He won't go and Skype them, and makes all kinds of excuses.

He lives a mere 2 hour flight away from Moscow or Kiev. he should be on a plane any chance he gets. The holidays were just here, a huge opportunity. but oh well, his life, his way...

THIS is the reason I don't do travelling abroad over/around the Christmas/New Year Festive period:

Link: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/28/hundreds-spend-night-at-stansted-airport-as-wintry-weather-hits-flights

Happens nearly every year and no the idea of kipping out on some hard plastic terminal seats for a nights sleep does not interest me, lol. I also avoid flying with BA as they are prone to having strikes every so often most likely again over the festive season as they don't give a sh*t about their customers or workers whatever their corporate PR says. Added to that will be the larger numbers of people going away, traffic jams and weather problems even getting to the airport, etc.

So why not just leave it a couple of months and go in March-April time when the snows have gone and I won't have those problems scuppering being with a lady and making me feel miserable for having it all stuff up. That's the way I see it.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 12:59:21 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the replies people.  I don't want to go to too many details as I need to start looking more positively for the future. One thing to be wary of is that I could have started a family soon after I married but I had job issues and felt i needed to make sure I can maintain an income and worry about the family later. After my job issues go back on track 2 years later my wife also got steady work. However the idea of a family to my wife time had passed. My marriage never recovered from that delay .

:popcorn: Yep I think we have found the diagnosis of your problem here already, now that was relatively quick and painless wasn't it. :)


For sure I have not been this far in with a FSW yet but from what I see this is a common mistake. Exposure early on to western culture is a big risk you are taking. You're essentially up-ing the challenge you are giving yourself without perhaps realizing it. Getting her preggers is no.1 priority never mind what situation you are in with anything else or all is lost! What I have learn't from my online studies is her getting a job or signing up to a course of study is virtually the worse thing you can do, particularly if you are not a top tier sort of guy. If you have not had family before and have not come first regularly with girls before in the past then you are not a top tier guy that many girls will go for and look up to. Don't distress yourself with this many of us guys aren't its just luck of the draw and you only need to fall a little short in one area or two to miss out on being a hottie wanted by all women.

You see Andrew when you let her go out and get a job you put her out on the market for all jocks to have a gander at. Once a woman is exposed to what else is out there, what she can get then she compares to you and if for her you no longer look as good a deal then she is likely to go elsewhere. When she first moves to a country many FSW will have little idea that they can get any better than the deal put in front off them, i.e you. You beat the local crowd she had access to so for her at that point in time she regards herself as getting a good deal - that is when you or most WM need to get the deal signed ;) and not delay. After all you have all the expense and hassle of going out there, dating (as fun as it can be) importing her, to me she signed up to being with you so can't complain that you want your half of the bargain. If you allow things to slide though she will see over time what else is out there and become accustomed to a whole new availability of men she did not know she would have access too. I've learn't that being too nice to a FSW doesn't help neither does getting a FSW and diverting her from her mission in life to be a baby machine ;D So don't try to alter a FSW just accept her as she is or run foul of her westernisation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2018, 02:37:20 PM
Trench has made the stupidest post of the year. He was champion last year too. This attitude is why he will not have a happy marriage.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2018, 03:01:56 PM
PS, Trench - A former poster here married an FSUW.  She became pregnant immediately, although it wasn't planned. He is wealthy, so she never worked.  She still managed to find a lover, despite being a stay at home mother, and booted the husband out to install her lover.  So your theory is no inoculation against adultery or abandonment.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 04:02:12 PM
THIS is the reason I don't do travelling abroad over/around the Christmas/New Year Festive period:



I do it most years ...booking at the last minute - having checked weather reports ..

Last year was via Istanbul to Sochi...   

Once again, Trench makes 'excuses' while others get on a DO it ))

Buy a set of winter tyres and DRIVE there !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 04:02:38 PM
PS, Trench - A former poster here married an FSUW.  She became pregnant immediately, although it wasn't planned. He is wealthy, so she never worked.  She still managed to find a lover, despite being a stay at home mother, and booted the husband out to install her lover.  So your theory is no inoculation against adultery or abandonment.

Stopping at one is not enough, you need at least two to get a decent level of protection. Three or more kids will have near enough all prospective competing males running for the hills. A guy who sees a woman with a kid already will think 'ok she has one but I can still have a couple more with her and it be manageable enough'. With three you are just being used as a b*tch.

In anything there's no guarantees but having kids tends to reduce the risk. Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Hammer2722 on January 02, 2018, 04:05:00 PM
Stopping at one is not enough, you need at least two to get a decent level of protection. Three or more kids will have near enough all prospective competing males running for the hills. A guy who sees a woman with a kid already will think 'ok she has one but I can still have a couple more with her and it be manageable enough'. With three you are just being used as a b*tch.

In anything there's no guarantees but having kids tends to reduce the risk. Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.

LOL, Completely clueless............... :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 04:10:55 PM
Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.

I wish to defend Trench.. in no way does the comment above make him out to be a misogynist  or clueless


Please note... irony intended





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2018, 04:25:15 PM
Stopping at one is not enough, you need at least two to get a decent level of protection. Three or more kids will have near enough all prospective competing males running for the hills. A guy who sees a woman with a kid already will think 'ok she has one but I can still have a couple more with her and it be manageable enough'. With three you are just being used as a b*tch.

In anything there's no guarantees but having kids tends to reduce the risk. Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.

You are going to be gone long before your wife gets to kid #3.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 06:49:54 PM
:ROFL:

Points well made ... But if you can tell me the airline that can get me to Moscow as fast as two hours - I'll do weekends, too ! ;)

Man-Moscow - no direct flights anymore... average time 8 hours

Lon-Moscow is fours hours



Sorry 3 and 1/2 hours from London.  Amsterdam and other closer cities are 3 hours or less. 

My point is that anyone in Europe is far closer to Russia than from North America.  Here it's a minimum of 10 hours and with connecting flights usually.  In total it takes me 16-18 hours from my city to Moscow.   So an extra hour to you should mean nothing!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 06:56:08 PM
Trench has made the stupidest post of the year. He was champion last year too. This attitude is why he will not have a happy marriage.

Bingo!!  Trench I really have no idea how you can seriously think like this...  Forget marriage, he won't even be able to find a girlfriend.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 07:03:59 PM
Sorry 3 and 1/2 hours from London.  Amsterdam and other closer cities are 3 hours or less. 

My point is that anyone in Europe is far closer to Russia than from North America.  Here it's a minimum of 10 hours and with connecting flights usually.  In total it takes me 16-18 hours from my city to Moscow.   So an extra hour to you should mean nothing!

IF you happen to live right next to Heathrow's flight path, lol. Fortunately I don't but the point is you have to factor in about a 4 hour journey plus checking in and waiting time as a minimum from where I live on the south coast of England. Then there is journey time at the other end, etc. which might be 2 hours in all so that 3.5-4 hour flight now becomes 10 hours minimum, possibly longer with traffic, delays, etc.

Of course you will have some travelling time as well on top but the point is that it is not quite as easy as those not from the UK think. A 10 hour journey time either side gets you next to no time over there for a long weekend. Essentially you might as well book the whole week off work, not a big problem as all full time workers in the UK get at least 25 days holiday per year, but the idea you can go every weekend if we liked isn't really a goer for many Brits.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 07:32:27 PM
Trench, serious question.  Have you had a girlfriend before or been in a relationship?  Because it's utter nonsense what you are spewing.  Most long time members will know this but new members may not.

If you have so little confidence in yourself that you feel a girl may leave you at the drop of a hat then something is wrong with you.

I don't want this thread being de-railed again, it is not about me, I am for the record a confident enough guy. I don't think you realise how notoriously competitive the dating scene is in the UK, specifically the south of England. It is horrendous you have to be of such a high standard as a guy to get a girl here for the long term or short term relationship. Girls here do not ask out guys they have such a large selection to choose from. A girl will typically line up at least several guys of interest to her and string them along and eventually choose one out of that selection or one that just comes out of the blue from somewhere. The UK is not Canada or the US, this is how hard it is here and many a guy from south of England will tell you the same.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2018, 07:59:09 PM
Believe me, if Trench does find an FSUW, he won't be ruining her life.  Those women are not babes in the woods.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 08:20:08 PM
IF you happen to live right next to Heathrow's flight path, lol. Fortunately I don't but the point is you have to factor in about a 4 hour journey plus checking in and waiting time as a minimum from where I live on the south coast of England.


Again with your excuses.  Everyone has travel time to the airport.  I basically lose a full day or two if you factor in the time zone difference.

You can get to London the day before and book an airport hotel and catch an early morning flight the next day.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 02, 2018, 08:25:40 PM
I don't think you realise how notoriously competitive the dating scene is in the UK, specifically the south of England. It is horrendous you have to be of such a high standard as a guy to get a girl here for the long term or short term relationship.

Dude I lived in London for a time, the biggest city in the UK.  I have to admit British girls are far less attractive than Russians on the whole, hence I didn't even bother asking one out.  I didn't have any problems finding girls from other cultures in London.  The UK is no more competitive than America, the rest of Europe or anywhere.   It basically comes down to the person.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 10:06:13 PM
Sorry 3 and 1/2 hours from London.  Amsterdam and other closer cities are 3 hours or less. 

My point is that anyone in Europe is far closer to Russia than from North America.  Here it's a minimum of 10 hours and with connecting flights usually.  In total it takes me 16-18 hours from my city to Moscow.   So an extra hour to you should mean nothing!

'Sorry' .. a bit like you suggesting you never dated one British girl in London - 'coz Russian women are more attractive'.. you are being a mite disingenuous..like any nation - there are attractive women...London has more than it's fair share.


The average flight time between London and Moscow is 3hrs and 53 minutes.. http://www.flight-durations.com/London-to-Moscow..I do believe my 'adding' 7 mins is far more accurate than your subtracting 23 ;)

BTW Kyiv is 3 hrs 18 mins...

I fully accept that New York to Moscow or Kyiv ( just over 9 hours - 1 mile different)  is 5 hours longer - but I think the time zone difference is the main 'killer' to making short trips



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 11:28:24 PM
Dude I lived in London for a time, the biggest city in the UK.  I have to admit British girls are far less attractive than Russians on the whole, hence I didn't even bother asking one out.  I didn't have any problems finding girls from other cultures in London.  The UK is no more competitive than America, the rest of Europe or anywhere.   It basically comes down to the person.

You've just proven my point - you could not get a decent British girl in London - why do you think that is - the competition!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 11:52:44 PM
You've just proven my point - you could not get a decent British girl in London - why do you think that is - the competition!

I interpreted Sting23's comment as, " I didn't see an attractive British girl", rather than his having any difficulty in 'pulling'...;)

Perhaps he can correct one of us ?!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 12:16:04 AM
I interpreted Sting23's comment as, " I didn't see an attractive British girl", rather than his having any difficulty in 'pulling'...;)

Perhaps he can correct one of us ?!

Exactly my point...I literally didn't meet one British girl who I wanted to ask out.  I don't know how Trench interprets English. Maybe that's why he has problems!

Had dates with American, French, Chinese, Czech.... many Eastern europeans that I met too.. Polish, Hungarian..  This was a long time ago and I had no idea about Russian girls or I would have tried to find them too!   there are tons of Russians in London. if you can't even get a date with one there, why bother going abroad Trench?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 12:17:18 AM
You've just proven my point - you could not get a decent British girl in London - why do you think that is - the competition!

Me thinks you don't speakie Englishie
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 03, 2018, 12:24:08 AM
Trench just proved - once more - that he is either inattentive, wilfully ignorant - in that he doesn't listen / read folks posts- or plain daft

Either that or just trolling
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 03, 2018, 01:26:16 AM
Stopping at one is not enough, you need at least two to get a decent level of protection. Three or more kids will have near enough all prospective competing males running for the hills. A guy who sees a woman with a kid already will think 'ok she has one but I can still have a couple more with her and it be manageable enough'. With three you are just being used as a b*tch.

In anything there's no guarantees but having kids tends to reduce the risk. Giving a woman two or more kids to deal with should keep her busy from pursuing lovers in her own interest.

Trench, this is a topic close to home. I have 3 children , I also divorced their serial cheating mother. Children have no bearing on if a woman will have an affair. I joined an affair support group 3 years ago to get advice, now I'm a moderator and giving advice. 2500 members and 90% have children. Their ages generally range from 30 - 50, the prime age for infidelity.

There are many reasons for a woman to have an affair. In a lot of cases, a woman who is loaded up with children and is  dealing with the boring aspects of day to day life, combined with an inattentive husband,   is more likely to cheat  than a woman without children.

You might say that's BS, a woman who has children is less likely to betray her family, but statistically that's not the case and once it starts often there is no guilt. There's something called an a "affair fog", there are  probably men and  women here who know exactly what I'm talking about. The cheating partner will rationalise their destructive behaviour while in the fog. The betrayed partner  and children come a distant second to their affair partner.

In my case my ex was a school  teacher, counselor and a child wellbeing officer. During her last affair,  she went from a loving mother to being reported for emotional child  abuse and lost custody of our children.

A word of warning..... Since this is a big issue for you. 70% of long term relationships experience infidelity..... single incidents (one night stands), emotional affairs, physical affairs or online affairs. The biggest percentage of married people that cheat are around the age of 40. At 40 people tend to reflect on their life and if they are in an unhappy relationship, or in many cases lack morals and empathy, they are more open to being unfaithful .... So I'd suggest finding someone your own age, since you are close to 40, as you will be her exciting new life, not another guy in 10 years time if you marry a 30 year old.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 02:06:32 AM

The average flight time between London and Moscow is 3hrs and 53 minutes.. http://www.flight-durations.com/London-to-Moscow..I do believe my 'adding' 7 mins is far more accurate than your subtracting 23 ;)

BTW Kyiv is 3 hrs 18 mins...

I fully accept that New York to Moscow or Kyiv ( just over 9 hours - 1 mile different)  is 5 hours longer - but I think the time zone difference is the main 'killer' to making short trips

There's a reason why I never took a liking to Brits, girls or guys....stop counting every minute, you get my point. It's far closer to go to Kiev or Moscow from London than it is from USA.  And I ain't even on the east coast like New York.  Think California.  A 10 hour time difference.  Add in 15 hours of travel and basically you need a few days to recover from the jet lag.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 03, 2018, 02:29:40 AM
There's a reason why I never took a liking to Brits, girls or guys....stop counting every minute, you get my point.

If you post incorrect data  - or 'exaggerate' - in your case - you'll get picked up ... my lineage has nothing to do with being a pedant ! I'm more 'Irish' than British - best add them to your 'list' based on my 'bad' example ;)

It's far closer to go to Kiev or Moscow from London than it is from USA.  And I ain't even on the east coast like New York.  Think California.  A 10 hour time difference.  Add in 15 hours of travel and basically you need a few days to recover from the jet lag.

We agree - I already stated the jet-lag factor  is the greater hardship - given that folks from the British Isles don't all fly via London nor choose partners who conveniently live in Moscow or Kyiv ! 

I realise not all posters profiles are accurate - but when you've a few trips under your belt - you state none -you can cease 'theorising'..

The 'Europe advantage' is an oft used 'excuse' by N.Americans ..   You guys can often get flights for less than we can .. but that might be down to the 'value ' of the GBP ?

Do 'we' have an advantage - unquestionably ... 



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 02:54:41 AM

I realise not all posters profiles are accurate - but when you've a few trips under your belt - you state none -you can cease 'theorising'..


Don't believe the lack of info on the profile...I signed up here a few years ago and basically forgot all about it until now.  Been too busy working and living in Russia and Europe lol.   

So I've done these trips more than a few times.  I connect through different cities and when the first flight is 10 hours the 2nd connecting one feels much shorter.

You must be joking when you say flights are cheaper from the USA than UK, from which city?  It's usually $1000 or more depending on high or low season.
I've seen flights from London to Moscow for just over 100 pounds.

Anyone from Europe has it waaaay easier if they want to go to Russia or Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 03, 2018, 04:11:23 AM
Don't believe the lack of info on the profile...I signed up here a few years ago and basically forgot all about it until now.  Been too busy working and living in Russia and Europe lol.   

WHY do folks mislead re their profiles ... some sort of 'game' or just lazy ? ;)  But thanks for clearing that up


So I've done these trips more than a few times.  I connect through different cities and when the first flight is 10 hours the 2nd connecting one feels much shorter.

You must be joking when you say flights are cheaper from the USA than UK, from which city?  It's usually $1000 or more depending on high or low season.
I've seen flights from London to Moscow for just over 100 pounds.

I wish... Possibly when the low cost airlines flew there

Anyone from Europe has it waaaay easier if they want to go to Russia or Ukraine.

Ironically, in the Summer, flights from North America are often more competitive to onward cities ... but then I seem to chose women in the corners / centre of Russia ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 04:25:19 AM
WHY do folks mislead re their profiles ... some sort of 'game' or just lazy ? ;)  But thanks for clearing that up


Mislead? you're reaching there. When I joined I thought this was just a site about dating Russian girls.   I didn't know people actually did trips over there for the sole purpose of finding a mate.  You've been on this forum for over 10 years so you must be the resident expert on everything here.  You certainly act that way telling people not to post this, don't tell your story to the peanut gallery..blah blah.. to do that.  Just chill out man.  Live and let live.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on January 03, 2018, 07:53:26 AM
My vote goes to Boston. It would not surprise me if C. S.Lewis had this city/town in mind when he wrote The Great Divorce.


It IS a CITY, not a town. And it is one of the best in the US  >:(
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on January 03, 2018, 08:10:01 AM
Trench, this is a topic close to home. I have 3 children , I also divorced their serial cheating mother. Children have no bearing on if a woman will have an affair. I joined an affair support group 3 years ago to get advice, now I'm a moderator and giving advice. 2500 members and 90% have children. Their ages generally range from 30 - 50, the prime age for infidelity.

There are many reasons for a woman to have an affair. In a lot of cases, a woman who is loaded up with children and is  dealing with the boring aspects of day to day life, combined with an inattentive husband,   is more likely to cheat  than a woman without children.


Shocking! Where have all the morals of the olden days gone to? :popcorn:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on January 03, 2018, 08:32:43 AM
PS, Trench - A former poster here married an FSUW.  She became pregnant immediately, although it wasn't planned. He is wealthy, so she never worked.  She still managed to find a lover, despite being a stay at home mother, and booted the husband out to install her lover.  So your theory is no inoculation against adultery or abandonment.


Absolutely correct. He will just be hooked on alimony and child support payments for life.  :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 03, 2018, 05:14:37 PM

Absolutely correct. He will just be hooked on alimony and child support payments for life.  :P

Of course that is why she did it, funny there are stories of UK girls doing similar to rich UK guys. They essentially go up to a rich guy in a posh London city centre bar or similar. They then throw themselves at the guy just to get pregnant knowing that the guy will earn a lot and they can get a nice payment routinely for the next 16-19 years. Shows how careful you have to be some girls are out on their own agenda and don't care about anyone else.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 03, 2018, 05:26:16 PM
It wasn’t about his wealth. She came from a wealthy family as well and didn’t marry him for money.  We don’t know why she took a lover. Perhaps she was lonely. Or bored. Or he was lousy in bed. It doesn’t really matter, though. The point was that impregnating a woman won’t inoculate you from divorce. If she is unhappy for whatever reason, eventually, you will be alone.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 03, 2018, 05:40:16 PM
It wasn’t about his wealth. She came from a wealthy family as well and didn’t marry him for money.  We don’t know why she took a lover. Perhaps she was lonely. Or bored. Or he was lousy in bed. It doesn’t really matter, though. The point was that impregnating a woman won’t inoculate you from divorce. If she is unhappy for whatever reason, eventually, you will be alone.

Why women always think its the guys job to entertain them I don't know, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 05:54:18 PM
Trenchcoat just made a rather crude comment here regarding the OP's update on this thread: 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.msg473996#msg473996

Luckily he deleted it but I still saw it.  Let's just say you don't ever want this guy around anyone's daughter. 

Trench I know what you wrote and it's pretty sick.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: treadmilldude on January 03, 2018, 06:13:30 PM
Yes.


Notice the cheap, nasty, gross $8 K-Mart Sweater and $1.99 Fruit of the Loom Wife Beater. Someone likes to dress as cheaply as possible, even for their VK profile picture!!! In my experience, Slavic women do  not like men who spend a grand total of $10 on their wardrobe.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 03, 2018, 06:22:59 PM
Why women always think its the guys job to entertain them I don't know, lol.

No one is talking about entertainment. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 03, 2018, 06:23:52 PM
Trenchcoat just made a rather crude comment here regarding the OP's update on this thread: 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.msg473996#msg473996 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.msg473996#msg473996)

Luckily he deleted it but I still saw it.  Let's just say you don't ever want this guy around anyone's daughter. 

Trench I know what you wrote and it's pretty sick.


Posters cannot delete their posts.  They can only modify them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 03, 2018, 06:28:32 PM

Posters cannot delete their posts.  They can only modify them.

Hmm...I saw it clearly with my own 2 eyes.  Then when I refreshed the page it was gone.

Trench.. you wrote: "Blimey...." yes?  I won't repeat the rest but it was quite crass and rude.  Maybe one of the mods deleted it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 03, 2018, 08:12:38 PM
Yes.


Notice the cheap, nasty, gross $8 K-Mart Sweater and $1.99 Fruit of the Loom Wife Beater. Someone likes to dress as cheaply as possible, even for their VK profile picture!!! In my experience, Slavic women do  not like men who spend a grand total of $10 on their wardrobe.

I pulled it off dressed in second hand shop clothes and sunglasses, in a very grainy picture and the women loved my 2nd picture, dressed entirely inappropriately for the situation, bare feet and all.
If you can't pull off the sophisticated man about town look...  go for the, life's going to be a little crazy, but fun persona.
Might be a bit difficult for trench to achieve the rugged outback man look though  ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 03, 2018, 10:26:06 PM

It IS a CITY, not a town. And it is one of the best in the US  >:(

Wrong Boston, pitbull!  :D  The article in question is about ENGLISH towns - Boston is in Lincolnshire, with a population in the 60 thousands.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 03, 2018, 11:57:27 PM
Ok, well back to me :D Well I've been looking through a few FSU cities and of course the women you get there. St. Pete's seemed to come up with some nice looking specimens ;D and Minsk wasn't too far behind either. I've been to Moscow and its a possibility but thought might as well go somewhere new. Looked also at Sochi as the main draw for me is year round decent weather, as you all know the cold is not something I enjoy. I don't mind it for snowboarding, etc but its not something I would want around me for too long. Main thing I'm finding with Sochi is that while it has some stunningly attractive women I find they nearly all already had a kid. For me while one kid is not the end of the world I would generally prefer a woman without a child. I'm not saying it couldn't work with a girl with a child already but I think it would add to the complexity of an already complex situation of International dating. Anyway, my main thought on this was wondering why this was? I'm guessing you Moby are likely to be best place for once to field the answer to that one.

The women I am looking at are in the 29-35 year old age group and while I would expect to find some with children in this age bracket looking for another partner I tend to find many more women like that in Sochi than in St. Petersburg or Minsk, Moscow probably too. I'm guessing there is probably more of a career culture to distract them in these other cities whereas Sochi being based around leisure perhaps gives more time for it.

My other thought is I would probably find it easiest in a relationship with a girl with similar interests to me or at least interests I would be happy partaking in. The last girl apparently had the odd few interests but those I did do with her and perhaps her interests in general were rather short lived typed of stuff, i.e you do the activity for maybe an hour then your done and looking to find something else to fill the day with. I think I might be best finding a girl who would be interested in exploring a city, place or visiting interesting sites. Its something you can spend a whole day on is reasonable cheap to do. I would of course not be interested in a girl that is into travelling if she expects me to pay for her. I don't mind the occasional more  extrovert activity but I think I need to really find someone of a roughly similar pace on all this to me and a similar type of activities. For instance the first girl I met was into Opera, Theatre, etc and though it was fine to see on the odd occasion I am not really a big theatre goer if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 04, 2018, 07:55:54 AM
Maybe the Boogel Woogel ski festival is the place for you Trench.... You can snow board, be an extrovert in your underwear and try your luck with the scantly clad women  ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 04, 2018, 07:58:07 AM
Ple-ease keep him away from Sochi or it's mountain resorts ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 04, 2018, 08:23:15 AM
Ple-ease keep him away from Sochi or it's mountain resorts ;)

Hhaaa, It's just a diversion to protect my interests not far up the coast   ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 04, 2018, 11:01:32 AM
Scantily clad women certainly take my interest :D I recall now you mention it a TV news article on the event where all these women ski down the snow wearing just bikini's. I guess because there's also a beach resort nearby. While that looks fun I wonder if they would be doing so with a kid in toe if that I have found online is anything to go by. Like loaf's of them seem that way. The only way around this is to go for a girl a year or two younger but I am wary of this. I am also slightly concerned of the type of girl you get there - too likely to turn up a materialistic girl perhaps and they as I know can be a pain. Now I know me Mobers will be just gagging to convince me otherwise that a Sochi girl is the one to go for ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 04, 2018, 11:55:20 AM
Now I know me Mobers will be just gagging to convince me otherwise that a Sochi girl is the one to go for ;D

1/ SC is nearly old enough to be your Ma

2/ Other than her ( of course) all Sochi women are either ugly or very emancipated....

hopefully, I get a medal from the Mayor of Sochi for saving the city's women from a visit from Trench ;)
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 04, 2018, 12:19:26 PM
1/ SC is nearly old enough to be your Ma

2/ Other than her ( of course) all Sochi women are either ugly or very emancipated....

hopefully, I get a medal from the Mayor of Sochi for saving the city's women from a visit from Trench ;)
 


I think you're right Mobe there seems to be a shortage of hotties there without kids. It's got me wondering if maybe I could pick up a girl in St. Pete's and get her to move to Sochi. I'm not sure whether that might appeal to a girl or sound a bit weird for a WM to be asking. It's the warm humidity you see, it's good for my health :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 05, 2018, 01:46:03 AM
I think you're right Mobe there seems to be a shortage of hotties there without kids.

I never claimed such ...  and you're wrong if you believe that...

It's got me wondering if maybe I could pick up a girl in St. Pete's and get her to move to Sochi. I'm not sure whether that might appeal to a girl or sound a bit weird for a WM to be asking. It's the warm humidity you see, it's good for my health :)

Tip: not that you'll listen... Find your ideal lady - don't search by location

I know plenty of ladies from Piter or Moscow who'd like to live in Sochi, but find the costs are the same/similar ( Sochi is now the 'third capital ') but the wages aren't ..

They try to make a go of it and move back - but miss Sochi

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on January 05, 2018, 03:04:04 AM


Tip: not that you'll listen... Find your ideal lady - don't search by location

I know plenty of ladies from Piter or Moscow who'd like to live in Sochi, but find the costs are the same/similar ( Sochi is now the 'third capital ') but the wages aren't ..




I mainly have looked at location, areas I enjoy most, easily find potentials there BUT there are times you end up in outlying areas but hopefully you have 'base' area not far.


'Third capital' ? I think Kazan is third capital, I have heard it called this way. Let's not have your Sochi bias get in the way!!! )))
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 05, 2018, 03:27:53 AM

I mainly have looked at location, areas I enjoy most, easily find potentials there BUT there are times you end up in outlying areas but hopefully you have 'base' area not far.


'Third capital' ? I think Kazan is third capital, I have heard it called this way. Let's not have your Sochi bias get in the way!!! )))

Good morning, LAman !

1/ Not MY bias - heard the term it on Russia's pervy kanal and a term used by Sochi's administration and Sochi Autodrom - so must be true ;)

2/ There's no right or wrong way - but I get it ....  seeing new places AND hoping meeting an interesting lady ....  I used to do that ... when aiming to visit all the 'Hero cities' ...  Finally gave up on the 'overload' of choices and went WFVO ;)

Happy New Year to you

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 05, 2018, 04:21:29 AM
'Third capital' ? I think Kazan is third capital, I have heard it called this way. Let's not have your Sochi bias get in the way!!! )))

1/ Not MY bias - heard the term it on Russia's pervy kanal and a term used by Sochi's administration and Sochi Autodrom - so must be true ;)

I know this is slightly off topic, but I love both those cities.  :thumbsup:

However, I'm just wondering if I'm the only member who has actually been to Kazan.  I can't recall anyone else (amongst the current posters, anyway) who has ever mentioned visiting.  For horse-racing fans, the Ippodrom is absolutely fantastic, with an amazing museum in the main grandstand and separate show-jumping and dressage arenas in the middle, and the Kremlin and Millennium Mosque are outstanding.  It even has its own leaning tower!  I've read several references to Bauman Street being one of the best pedestrian malls in the world - definitely another highlight.  And the metro is something all on it's own.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 05, 2018, 09:26:12 AM
I never claimed such ...  and you're wrong if you believe that...

Tip: not that you'll listen... Find your ideal lady - don't search by location

I know plenty of ladies from Piter or Moscow who'd like to live in Sochi, but find the costs are the same/similar ( Sochi is now the 'third capital ') but the wages aren't ..

They try to make a go of it and move back - but miss Sochi

Well I think St. Petersburg will turn up a lady for me, Sochi I would be doubtful on but you never know. I know what you mean with the wholetter living costs same but wages lower it's like that where I live at present compared to London. I think I really want to give the meet many a go this time and she how it works for me.

I look up Sochi online, photos & you tube. It seem to have a pebble beach - I prefer sandy. The buildings look new compared to the old concrete block stuff but it seems kind of lacking in character in parts. Like a kind off new build city, very blocky and not a lot of atmosphere from what I can see. The Olympic Park/stadium looks a little ugly loolong also. Still there are worse looking places around and with the good climate means I'll have to think on it I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 05, 2018, 02:02:25 PM


I look up Sochi online, photos & you tube. It seem to have a pebble beach - I prefer sandy.

You need Crimea or further up the Krasnodarsky Krai ( region) coast to find sandy ( Anapa)  .... Moby said, hopefully


The buildings look new compared to the old concrete block stuff but it seems kind of lacking in character in parts. Like a kind off new build city, very blocky and not a lot of atmosphere from what I can see.

Shows what happens if you just look at the net and don't go there.... our region of the city is more 'old' and 'gentrified'



The Olympic Park/stadium looks a little ugly loolong also. Still there are worse looking places around and with the good climate means I'll have to think on it I think.

It is pretty souless - the Olympic park is 30 km south of Sochi City in the city of Adler ..note to AnotherKiwi - why don't you correct Trench's spelling ? That would keep you busy ;)

Really Trench - on reflection ..Sochi's not for you !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 05, 2018, 09:19:52 PM
Really Trench - on reflection ..Sochi's not for you !

A bit too close for comfort eh! Lol, you would always be looking around you wondering if I were near you ;D

Seriously though difficult to say, a peeble beach is not my favourite but then again  I get bored spend a lot of time on the beach. I don't tan well as my skin burns relatively easily and flakes off. I could go up the road where you suggest for the odd day for the sandy beach but I think I would base myself in a city with a nearby airport so I guess Sochi would not be bad for this or Krasnodar. In the first instance though I'm pretty sure now St. Petersburg will be my first stop both because of the women and I think the place would be more suited to me being a place to explore than a beach city where the activities I might be lukewarm on.

I think I will say to girl I am a foreign English Teacher which will be somewhere near the truth and hopefully should allow me to state the possibility of living in another place (wherever that may be) without it sounding too weird, hopefully as that was one of the problems I had with the last girl I think. It also means I won't be letting on how wealthy I may be by saying I work in property etc which I think instantly many people think you're wealthy if you work in an area such as property. I really need to keep the option of living somewhere else open just in case it seems the preferable thing to do. I don't mind bit of festive snow but I would wonder if it might get too cold for me in St. Pete's over winter so may have to sort out another plan by then I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 05, 2018, 11:12:17 PM
..is it just me, or does Trench appear to write rambling nonsense....?;)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 05, 2018, 11:12:46 PM

I think I will say to girl I am a foreign English Teacher which will be somewhere near the truth and hopefully should allow me to state the possibility of living in another place (wherever that may be) without it sounding too weird, hopefully as that was one of the problems I had with the last girl I think.
It also means I won't be letting on how wealthy I may be by saying I work in property etc which I think instantly many people think you're wealthy if you work in an area such as property.

Trench you ought to create 2 or 3 alter egos.    I mean you're always trying to project something that you aren't.  Like I'll do photography, I'm an English teacher, I work in real estate therefore I am rich...haha.  The guys who are wealthy in property are the developers.  You could be a construction worker in property too.   Once you spend enough time with a girl she'll know who you really are so stop pretending.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 05, 2018, 11:21:15 PM
..is it just me, or does Trench appear to write rambling nonsense....?;)

you've been here this long and you just noticed? this guy is in his own fantasy world. and everything he writes is nonsense.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 06, 2018, 12:12:12 AM
..note to AnotherKiwi - why don't you correct Trench's spelling ? That would keep you busy ;)

How the hell do you correct words and phrases such as these...

...It's the warm humidity you see, it's good for my health :)

...the wholetter...

...The Olympic Park/stadium looks a little ugly loolong also...

...with the good climate means I'll have to think on it I think.

...a beach city where the activities I might be lukewarm on.

...when you have absolutely no idea what this so-called "Teacher of English" is trying to say?  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 06, 2018, 12:39:34 AM
You need Crimea or further up the Krasnodarsky Krai ( region) coast to find sandy ( Anapa)...

...I could go up the road where you suggest for the odd day for the sandy beach but I think I would base myself in a city with a nearby airport so I guess Sochi would not be bad for this or Krasnodar.

Look at a frigging map!  Anapa has a perfectly good international airport, and it's a major charter holiday destination.  You don't go "up the road" for six hours or more (from Sochi) just for an "odd day" at a sandy beach - you plan your holiday around it.  With the way that you burn you might just as well stay in Sochi.

However, Krasnodar has beautiful sandy beaches along the Kuban river, as you can see from these photos.  Maybe that would be more to your liking.  I was there in autumn so nobody was swimming.  I would guess that they would be pretty full in summer, but Doll would be the expert to ask on this - it's her city.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 06, 2018, 02:26:39 AM
Some parts of Krasnodar are below sea level ! It's in  a 'bowl' - not a lot of people know that ;)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 06, 2018, 05:52:22 PM
Thanks Kiwi, wasn't aware of that I just kind of assumed it would just be the big cities. Its coming up at around a 10 hour flight with a transfer in between, Sochi a little less at around 7 hour but again with a transfer.

St. Pete's is only around a 3 and a half hour flight, I can get it direct and is a bit cheaper too.

I think I got one I could be very interested in there, quite a tall girl with nice long hair down to her bum :) So fitting my exacting requirements quite nicely ;)

If not there seems to be loads of other girls that I would be good options also as I really feel that until you meet in person you don't really know which girl would be best until 'you know'. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 07, 2018, 02:49:43 AM
Trench,

save yourself some time...  just link to your posts here and I'm sure an orderly queue of ladies will form

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on January 08, 2018, 09:06:13 PM
You need Crimea or further up the Krasnodarsky ......
To find sandy

Some of Crimea's beaches are sandy, but around Yalta, and it's resorts, it's  large pebbles/stones.
It was rough on my delicate feet lol almost had to throw my man card away.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320xq90/r/923/yzGz6d.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320xq90/r/924/2pnj5v.jpg)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 09, 2018, 04:06:18 AM
 :D

You've been on the 'wrong' Crimea beaches, Jumper ;)

http://visittoukraine.com/uploads/images/news/gold_beach.jpg (http://visittoukraine.com/uploads/images/news/gold_beach.jpg)

The stones on most Sochi beaches are bigger.. The early birds grab the best places on the concrete Groynes to dive off and sunbathe ;)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on January 09, 2018, 11:20:23 AM
Lol true, I've been to sandy beaches there, but was pointing out the main resort area of Yalta, is all stone.So if sone9ne heads to Yalta looking for a typical beach, good luck finding one without moving around the coast.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 13, 2018, 02:35:16 AM
That's the thing Jumper the western world trains the woman up to do just that - get a job where she can afford expensive meals, but does she want to pay for one for the guy? Hell no, that would be him sponging off her right ;) So she would be looking for a man of equivalent financial stature or near enough or greater. If she fails to get a well paying enough job despite well educated/working hard/connections or lack off then she could be looking for a guy with money/good job if she had been socialised that way. Most of the times though such guys not only desire chemistry but an attractive looking lady - good looks and a decent figure being the sign of a quality woman of course :D

The only thing I don't understand about our Trench is if he writes this for a rise or if he really believes such twaddle.

I know of at least 3 FSU W in the west, who now rely on themselves for income, but would still like to share their lives - and everything that goes with it -  for Mr Right...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: kynrazor on January 14, 2018, 04:19:45 AM

A somewhat mercenary outlook ? ...   

Our Trench would say, "Why invest in her education for her to move on to a better guy" ( using my ex-to be as an 'example' ) and You'd respond, " another bus will come along, soon enough " ...   ;)

 :shock:

Wow msmob that was on point. Very interesting perspective that I entirely missed!

It does make one wonder, how much of love in most relationships is actually, unconditional love.  :-\ Hmm  :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 14, 2018, 08:01:38 AM
:shock:

Wow msmob that was on point. Very interesting perspective that I entirely missed!

It does make one wonder, how much of love in most relationships is actually, unconditional love.  :-\ Hmm  :)

Well I believe Billy has had children with his current wife so it's ok for her to then go to college. No way would I send a girl to collage before she had ar least a couple of kids loads of guys would be cracking onto her. Your at college Kyn I'm sure you can appreciate the razor sharp social skills some guys are all too confident at displaying. Sure some posters will no doubt set upon what I say here but my opinion is that it's a foolish move to make without something to tie her to you just asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 14, 2018, 08:35:35 AM
Well I believe Billy has had children with his current wife so it's ok for her to then go to college. No way would I send a girl to collage before she had ar least a couple of kids loads of guys would be cracking onto her. Your at college Kyn I'm sure you can appreciate the razor sharp social skills some guys are all too confident at displaying. Sure some posters will no doubt set upon what I say here but my opinion is that it's a foolish move to make without something to tie her to you just asking for trouble.

This post just buttresses pitbull's speculations about you, and my view that you are a misogynist.    You are not buying some pet from a store.  If you ever succeed in finding a woman willing to marry you, she will have her own views on whether she wants an education, or children, or neither, or both, and you have to respect those views.

Your post just again tells me you have no understanding of what normal human relationships entail.  You can't "trap" a woman with children.  Especially not an FSUW.  All your attitude will do is ensure that the woman you do marry is one who is marrying you for a passport, not because she has deep feelings for you.  What your "plan", as it is, will do, is ensure when she kicks you out, she will get your home and more than half your income.

You also evidently have no understanding of what it is like to have children and raise them, nor the stresses children can put on a relationship. 

Look for a woman who wants you.  Then an education is icing on the cake, as you have a woman who will have a sense of self worth, and will stay with you because she wants to.

Life is going to punish you in this endeavour.  Trust me on this.

Oh, and Billy does not have children with his current wife, but "lets" her go to college anyway. :rolleyes:   I'm not one of Billy's fans, but I do respect him for fighting for access to his ex wife's older son.  Billy is not the biological father of that child, but he was the only father that child had known, and he went to court to ensure he had access to that child, who he rightly refers to as his son.  I doubt that is something you would do either.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Fashionista on January 14, 2018, 08:36:27 AM
Huh? Are you guys serious? Geez, the weird posts on this forum...  :-\  A friend of mine just divorced her husband, with 2 kids, got alimony, child support, an expensive car...Right after she graduated and got a job. She could have taken him to the cleaners but said she just wanted out. How's anything short of handcuffs in the basement can tie anyone to anyone?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on January 14, 2018, 08:59:21 AM
TC, Billy has children from a preious marriage, he doesn't have children with his current wife.She is going to college .
Your whole premise harkens to some barefoot and pregnant thinking.
Are you sure you were born in  this century?
That may have been popular in the late 1800's.
Welcome to 2018.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: wallm on January 14, 2018, 09:43:13 AM
No way would I send a girl to collage before she had ar least a couple of kids loads of guys would be cracking onto her.

Women are not for you. Seriously.  :rolleyes:

It is time you consider getting acquainted with the large LGBT community in London. Perhaps you will get lucky with a husband.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on January 14, 2018, 09:44:11 AM
Oh, and Billy does not have children with his current wife, but "lets" her go to college anyway. :rolleyes:   I'm not one of Billy's fans, but I do respect him for fighting for access to his ex wife's older son.  Billy is not the biological father of that child, but he was the only father that child had known, and he went to court to ensure he had access to that child, who he rightly refers to as his son.  I doubt that is something you would do either.


Absolutely true except the part where you're not my fan. I know you love me Bo.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on January 14, 2018, 01:02:59 PM
How's anything short of handcuffs in the basement can tie anyone to anyone?

Actually there should only be one handcuff.  That goes on the wrist or ankle and is hooked to a chain of appropriate length which, in turn, is fastened to some sturdy object embedded in concrete floor.

Not that I actually know anything about this.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Fashionista on January 14, 2018, 01:09:10 PM
Actually there should only be one handcuff.  That goes on the wrist or ankle and is hooked to a chain of appropriate length which, in turn, is fastened to some sturdy object embedded in concrete floor.

Not that I actually know anything about this.


 :clapping:   Don't be shy  8)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 14, 2018, 03:50:01 PM

It is time you consider getting acquainted with the large LGBT community in London. Perhaps you will get lucky with a husband.

1/ I guess it's as large as your neck of the woods - just society have moved out of the dark ages ....   I was a deluded supporter of Mrs T in this respect in the same way the Orthodox Church and VVP are now...))

2/ You think the LGBT don't have standards, too ?)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on January 14, 2018, 06:16:53 PM
This post just buttresses pitbull's speculations about you, and my view that you are a misogynist.   

I disagree. I think that he lacks confidence in himself that he
could get any desirable woman to really love him. He fears that any
decent woman would be interested only in his possessions and would
leave him for greener pastures as soon as the opportunity presented
itself.

These fears and confidence issues affect his actions towards decent
women that he has yet to meet and he is (non-deliberately) pushing
away good candidates by his words and actions.

I have zero fear that if somebody younger, smarter, hotter, richer
and more talented than myself hit on Angel Eyes that she would
choose him over me.

The truth is if you find a good woman and win her heart you don't
have to worry about crap like that. I'm not an armchair psychologist,
I don't know what he needs to do to change his attitude or to gain
confidence in himself. In my opinion, he is doomed until he finds a
way.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 14, 2018, 07:02:18 PM
I disagree. I think that he lacks confidence in himself that he could get any desirable woman to really love him. He fears that any decent woman would be interested only in his possessions and would leave him for greener pastures as soon as the opportunity presented itself.

These fears and confidence issues affect his actions towards decent women that he has yet to meet and he is (non-deliberately) pushing away good candidates by his words and actions.  . .
 
I don't know what he needs to do to change his attitude or to gain confidence in himself. In my opinion, he is doomed until he finds a way.


No, I disagree.  This isn't about confidence.  It is about a general attitude toward women, displayed in over 1,000 posts.  If he truly lacked confidence, he wouldn't be looking abroad at all.


I agree he is doomed, though. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on January 14, 2018, 08:28:47 PM
No way would I send a girl to collage before she had ar least a couple of kids loads of guys would be cracking onto her.


Jesus dude, are you serious?


2/ You think the LGBT don't have standards, too ?)


LOL. Probably higher standards than us breeders. Wallm must have never been to a gay club.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 14, 2018, 10:10:21 PM

Jesus dude, are you serious?


Yes, Alex Uni's are full of guys who the home market would deem 'quality men' if I sent a girl there who was younger than me and a say 9 or 10 direction in the looks department how long do you think it would be before she hooks up with one of these 'quality men'. Bearing in mind on the UK probably US & Australia to women at Uni will have the upper hand in choosing particularly hot women. It like the FSU dating scene in reverse for them, it's a paradise for them, now we all know how many FSU guys go chasing other women even after they are married. It's the same situation in reverse, now do I wish to be a fool and facilitate a girl that I made so much effort & expense with getting with another guy. All for my dumb choice of sending her to Uni, lol - not in your dreams!

As I see it if a girl when you meet says she wants a family that is what she has signed up to and is getting. Side tracking her onto education is not a good idea and will come back to bite you.

p.s this is not about me lacking confidence it's about me realising the situation as it is. I would see myself having 'some quality' as a man but I know I only really qualify as a 'quality man' in the FSU not in the UK. Now that is not easy for me to say or anything I can do much about. I am never going to have the social skills to count as a 'quality man' in the UK. It is why I am looking out in the FSU after all. If I could easily get a woman here I would. It is well known that many men that go looking for a woman in the FSU are not 'quality men' at least not by many western women and even some FSW if they are real bad on that front.

I know I need to be careful not to reck decent relationships over my fears by thsee fears affecting my relationship too much with a woman as 2tallbill states. But I will not be made a fool off or ignore reality by acting carelessly and/or being blinded by confidence/over confidence. Many a guy I believe has made this mistake.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 14, 2018, 10:22:38 PM
You are an idiot.

I have three degrees. I also have three children. I always wanted a family but life can throw a lot of things at you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 14, 2018, 10:38:36 PM
You are an idiot.

I have three degrees. I also have three children. I always wanted a family but life can throw a lot of things at you.

Yes but you are not strictly speaking a FSW  as you so often remind us you are Canadian and so already had the offerings of western society to hand. In any case many FSW have already done the uni thing. Some may want to be educated with a degree that would be recognised in their new country but I believe as said above that this is not a god idea at the very outset of a relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on January 14, 2018, 10:43:06 PM
If you think the only place your wife will be around men with more money, a diploma, better looks, a Ferrari, or xyzlmnop is a University you are not thinking straight.

Is you wife not going to work? Or have any friends?

Don't you want the very best for her?


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on January 14, 2018, 10:45:11 PM
Quote
But I will not be made a fool off or ignore reality...

You've already made a huge fool of yourself and you can't ignore reality until you understand what it is.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 14, 2018, 10:46:25 PM
Immigrants tend to value education more than non immigrants. FSU society is far more status conscious than the West. Most young FSUW will want to work, and most will want careers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on January 14, 2018, 10:53:04 PM
Immigrants tend to value education more than non immigrants. FSU society is far more status conscious than the West. Most young FSUW will want to work, and most will want careers.


This ^^^^


She will resent you otherwise Trenchcoat.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on January 14, 2018, 11:14:10 PM
TC then don't marry until it isn't considered outset of  the relationship?

90% of what you often fear seems
generated in thinking a marriage isn't on solid relationship ground.

Never ever marry until it is!
Regardless all your other fears,
one thing you do need to be certain of ,before marriage, is thst you have a solid trusting relationship.
If you do(and anyone should before they propose) then none of this stuff is any big concern.
If you try to marry before a relationship is really formed and completely established,certainly all the things you fear are possible,  and even likely.
There are no shortcuts TC.

You have to win her heart.

You won't do that by thinking these type of thoughts.

Once her heart is won, and she has won yours(not just someone you like or want as a wife because she's attractive,  someone you absolutely adore)
you should not have these doubts and fears.

Anything can happen in relationships ,but you can't go into them holding back and qualifying your feelings for someone by some gauge .
At the moment you are too uptight with your concerns and over thinking,  to ever truly love anyone.
Relax, remember even truly poor folk find true love.

Also, frankly, relax your standards as well, if you can't confidently be an engageing charming chap that can hit on, and at least occasionally date a 9 or 10 locally, there is zero reason for you to even talk about marrying one from the FSU ,or worry about the *what ifs* after you do.

You may get a better person interested in you to start a family from the FSU than you can locally, and that should be your goal.
 That certainly does not mean they will be some university hottie thats a  9 on the attractive scale.
 
A large amount of your worries are akin to
me worrying where to park the lunar rover,so that it won't get stolen by rabid raccoons,
after I've become an astronaut and the US has restarted missions to the moon.
:)

Spend your energies in getting acquainted with someone you really like, see where it leads.Thats quite difficult enough to start with.
Forget the  concerns over a future that can never happen if you dont get the first part established.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 15, 2018, 01:23:22 AM
I fear it's a lost cause for Trench. He just doesn't listen and won't change his thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 15, 2018, 02:19:28 AM


Don't you want the very best for her?


What like another guy after I have paid for everything, no not really ;D

My focus is on finding a girl to have children with, never mind education & careers they are often oversold anyway and can really bugger things up. If you start her off on the railroad track off either of those things she will go off in that direction and that is the problem I am trying to get away from with western women. Why would I want to socialise her as a western woman it's just femininism gone mad, it would ruin the relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 15, 2018, 02:56:13 AM
What like another guy after I have paid for everything, no not really ;D

My focus is on finding a girl to have children with, never mind education & careers they are often oversold anyway and can really bugger things up. If you start her off on the railroad track off either of those things she will go off in that direction and that is the problem I am trying to get away from with western women. Why would I want to socialise her as a western woman it's just femininism gone mad, it would ruin the relationship.

Ri-ight !..

So you've been to UA / RU and think the lass' you've 'met' there weren't educated ?

May be you want to bring a non Eng speaker, keep her at home, making babies and only let the kids out to school ?

Whatever will you do when they wonder why their Dad is such an ......?

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 15, 2018, 10:28:22 AM
What like another guy after I have paid for everything, no not really
:puke:


You do realize this is another person, with her own will and mind, right? 
Quote
My focus is on finding a girl to have children with, never mind education & careers they are often oversold anyway and can really bugger things up. If you start her off on the railroad track off either of those things she will go off in that direction and that is the problem I am trying to get away from with western women. Why would I want to socialise her as a western woman it's just femininism gone mad, it would ruin the relationship.


LOL.  Well gee, yes, you are correct.  FSUW don't work, they sit at home becoming brood mares for their men. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on January 15, 2018, 11:05:23 AM
My focus is on finding a girl to have children with, never mind education & careers they are often oversold anyway and can really bugger things up. If you start her off on the railroad track off either of those things she will go off in that direction and that is the problem I am trying to get away from with western women. Why would I want to socialise her as a western woman it's just femininism gone mad, it would ruin the relationship.



Well I believe Billy has had children with his current wife so it's ok for her to then go to college. No way would I send a girl to collage before she had ar least a couple of kids loads of guys would be cracking onto her. Your at college Kyn I'm sure you can appreciate the razor sharp social skills some guys are all too confident at displaying. Sure some posters will no doubt set upon what I say here but my opinion is that it's a foolish move to make without something to tie her to you just asking for trouble.


I grant you did declared the statement above to be only an opinion at this time.


Let me share my actual experience on this subject. My wife was 21 when we got married. She's cute enough to have placed top tier (didn't outright win it) in the Ms. Novosibirsk beauty competition. So being a 'babe' isn't solely my opinion.


When I met my wife, she was attending her university and was one of the top students in her class. She was even receiving monthly stipend because of it. So when we got married I made a promise to everyone and myself that I will commit every resource in my means to ensure my wife explore her ambition to its fullest potential. She went on to attend a California State University and received her degree.


Fast forward to present time. 13 years since she arrived, 7+ years since becoming a US citizen, 8 years since graduating at Cal-State, her professional future is limitless. She's fully in charge of her department with an ever growing clientele. At the rate of her progression, she'll soon be in a partnering positional role in her company. At present she's a senior tax manager handling mostly corporate, FI (financial institution), banks, etc with 3 managers working directly under her, ( two of which are actually a little bit older than she)...her company not only have offices worldwide, but actually have offices in both St Pete / Moscow. FWIW, she can ask for transfer anywhere at a moment's whim if she so desires.


She's got a primary home and 2 rental units under her name today. Her FICO score has been above 800. Drives an Audi which will soon be replaced with Elon's creation, and an annual compensatory package in excess of $250k/yr. She's barely 32.


My wife has total command of her life. I am not at all concerned, much less worry about, my marriage and relationship with my wife. Never has, never will. Materially, (we) she has everything that she could possibly want today. Personally, 2018 will bring an even better life with, within and to our marriage to complete it.

Last Xmas we gave 'token' Christmas gifts to one another like we always do. They are symbolic of how we feel towards one another (since we literally have everything else in life materially), or more to the point, how she feels about me and her marriage with me. I'll share two of what she gave to me symbolic of what she feels. See below...

All I did with my wife was provide her the canvas. She did all the work, and I'm so much better for it all. No regrets.

My reality v your 'opinion'. I no longer need to hope with mine, but will wish you good luck with yours.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on January 15, 2018, 01:46:33 PM



I grant you did declared the statement above to be only an opinion at this time.


Let me share my actual experience on this subject. My wife was 21 when we got married. She's cute enough to have placed top tier (didn't outright win it) in the Ms. Novosibirsk beauty competition. So being a 'babe' isn't solely my opinion.


When I met my wife, she was attending her university and was one of the top students in her class. She was even receiving monthly stipend because of it. So when we got married I made a promise to everyone and myself that I will commit every resource in my means to ensure my wife explore her ambition to its fullest potential. She went on to attend a California State University and received her degree.


Fast forward to present time. 13 years since she arrived, 7+ years since becoming a US citizen, 8 years since graduating at Cal-State, her professional future is limitless. She's fully in charge of her department with an ever growing clientele. At the rate of her progression, she'll soon be in a partnering positional role in her company. At present she's a senior tax manager handling mostly corporate, FI (financial institution), banks, etc with 3 managers working directly under her, ( two of which are actually a little bit older than she)...her company not only have offices worldwide, but actually have offices in both St Pete / Moscow. FWIW, she can ask for transfer anywhere at a moment's whim if she so desires.


She's got a primary home and 2 rental units under her name today. Her FICO score has been above 800. Drives an Audi which will soon be replaced with Elon's creation, and an annual compensatory package in excess of $250k/yr. She's barely 32.


My wife has total command of her life. I am not at all concerned, much less worry about, my marriage and relationship with my wife. Never has, never will. Materially, (we) she has everything that she could possibly want today. Personally, 2018 will bring an even better life with, within and to our marriage to complete it.

Last Xmas we gave 'token' Christmas gifts to one another like we always do. They are symbolic of how we feel towards one another (since we literally have everything else in life materially), or more to the point, how she feels about me and her marriage with me. I'll share two of what she gave to me symbolic of what she feels. See below...

All I did with my wife was provide her the canvas. She did all the work, and I'm so much better for it all. No regrets.

My reality v your 'opinion'. I no longer need to hope with mine, but will wish you good luck with yours.

Sheesh GQ-- what is she doing with you !!  ( er  that's a joke btw!)
No wonder you are full of yourself ! ( That's not a joke !!)

And half joking -- that all would be Trenches dream -- a girl he can send out to work and make an income he  only dreams of !!


Seriously -- that really is a success story that all can aspire to achieve. The fact that she was young probably helped ie her life was ahead of her to create .

Without wishing to pry in any way -- what was/is her attitude to children -- and yours while I am asking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on January 15, 2018, 04:33:27 PM
It's a small triumph in wife's individual/identity. That's all it is so far really. That is what I was very careful with before considering her age at marriage.

'Success' (or failure) isn't in my definition when it comes to our marriage. I don't pre-occupy myself with that. I think even if we are married for the next century it will be as subjective then as it is now, or 5 years ago. Or, if anything happens and we severed our marriage today, as long as she's happy and feel fulfilled, from my POV, I've succeeded if I'm true in my heart and mean what I say that 'her happiness is all that's important to me'. Wifey will be fine from here on in with or without me. She's more than established and independent as a person, on her own. Having and loving each other still is wonderful! So, that's a small triumph I definitely can take pride and joy in. All I can really 'control' is do my very best. It's up to wifey to deem it's merit, me to her likewise.

To address your last question, I addressed this on my post re: 2018. We experienced a momentary stumbling block but nothing we weren't able to cope with and move forward on.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 15, 2018, 05:14:43 PM
:puke:


You do realize this is another person, with her own will and mind, right? 

LOL.  Well gee, yes, you are correct.  FSUW don't work, they sit at home becoming brood mares for their men.

Sounds good to me :D

Sure she has her own mind and will, I am just saying what she decides up front she should stick to if she says she want family, children then that is what she shall get, if she says education, etc I will tell her she is on her own on that one and good luck in finding a guy that will facilitate that for her. On hearing this if she decided education is not as important as she thought it was then all is good. If she later decides shortly after getting with me she's changed her mind and wants education then it up to her to sort that, pay for it herself and make travel arrangements. Way I see it if she stated she wanted children then changed her mind why should I stump up when I was misled. If you're to soft on FSW as I have found out they will walk all over you and play you for a fool.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 15, 2018, 06:59:24 PM
I have found out they will walk all over you and play you for a fool.

That's because you've yet to find the perfect woman for you, someone you will share an amazing emotional connection with.
When she comes along, you won't care if she wears jeans, goes to uni, gets hit on by other guys or maybe even decides she doesn't want kids. No other woman will compare and she will feel the same about you. You will be incredibly soft and understanding with her, even if her needs in lifespan differ from yours, as her happiness will be a higher priority than your own. That's what marriage and love is all about.

Somewhere along the line you've lost sight of this or have never experience it as your comments don't sit well with most who have been in, or are in a loving relationship where there is genuine trust and mutual respect.

Honestly you would struggle to keep one of the over weight, entitled local girls you say are your only option
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 15, 2018, 09:54:13 PM
Sounds good to me :D

 If she later decides shortly after getting with me she's changed her mind and wants education then it up to her to sort that, pay for it herself and make travel arrangements. Way I see it if she stated she wanted children then changed her mind why should I stump up when I was misled.

nice attitude, no wonder the girls aren't lining up to meet you. so you're gonna make your wife pay for her own education and everything else because she wants to improver her lot...did you not even read the story above with GQ. His wife is making 250K now after university.

All you're worried about is her leaving you after she uses you. No wonder you can't even get a date.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 15, 2018, 10:33:36 PM
nice attitude, no wonder the girls aren't lining up to meet you. so you're gonna make your wife pay for her own education and everything else because she wants to improver her lot...did you not even read the story above with GQ. His wife is making 250K now after university.

All you're worried about is her leaving you after she uses you. No wonder you can't even get a date.

Are you naive? You really think she earns $250K as a result of attending University, lol, hilarious! GQ is obviously loaded and he set his wife up with the lucrative business operation. By the sounds of it he has so much money it's of little consequence to him. If every guy could expect this sort of result who just had a normal salary we would all be doing it.

Guys come on here and tell others how well they have donever and some have. Many I think though don't tell us of the back story as to why their wife us so devoted to them, etc. I think there are guys on this forum more often not American who are very wealthy. They turn up in the FSU and to FSW it is like God has called into town. Of course many are going to throw themselves at them with all the enticements at stake.That or they can look forward to living out a deary life in Dumps. Wake up.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on January 15, 2018, 11:17:47 PM
Are you naive? You really think she earns $250K as a result of attending University, lol, hilarious! GQ is obviously loaded and he set his wife up with the lucrative business operation. By the sounds of it he has so much money it's of little consequence to him. If every guy could expect this sort of result who just had a normal salary we would all be doing it.

Guys come on here and tell others how well they have donever and some have. Many I think though don't tell us of the back story as to why their wife us so devoted to them, etc. I think there are guys on this forum more often not American who are very wealthy. They turn up in the FSU and to FSW it is like God has called into town. Of course many are going to throw themselves at them with all the enticements at stake.That or they can look forward to living out a deary life in Dumps. Wake up.

How do you know GQs wife did not  attain her own success?
Perhaps best to ask clarification, than assume things.

My wife already had her degrees before we married, she actually finished one after we had met ,and just prior to relocating here.
I certainly would  help her when and if she chooses to advance her education here.
(She's an accountant , has worked here, and with her skill set has had zero problem being offered employment with good compensation.)

Similar to GQ, I get gifts like this:
(http://img0.etsystatic.com/172/0/10925286/il_570xN.1084336302_fo6e.jpg)

I'm certainly not wealthy, and
my wife actually  had no great understanding  of what I really did for a living when we married. Lol mostly because I remained fairly vague about it, partly because it's normally not something FSU women endure well, and partly because I was transitioning thru it  to other ,safer,directions anyway.
Basically she was confident  we'd get by ok, and that was enough.She also knew she could work, but mainly she believed in me, and whatever i decide to put my hands to, she fully  supports.
  That is whether it be truly lucrative, or just getting by. You see TC, she wants me to be happy in what I do ,and would gladly work also to contribute if needed to,to allow me a job I enjoyed versus one selected purely by monetary compensation.
I don't have to guess, because we have already been thru such decisions  as a couple. Ive had some great moments and highlights ,and some of the lowest points of my career during our marriage.Nothing has even slightly changed that basic mindset and mentality regarding those issues .

Your worry is over nothing if you take the time to establish a real relationship,with a good hearted person who actually loves you.

I find it incredibly ironic that you worry about mercenary women.

Your own approach is completely mercenary at it's root.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on January 15, 2018, 11:19:38 PM
Well, another low for Trench.

Yeah, she probably makes $250,000 a year.  And GQ doesn't do too badly either.  Makes for a nice lifestyle.  BUT!  They both sacrificed much to get there.   We're talking about LA.  People commonly make that type of money.  Where I live, the neighborhood, everybody pretty well does.

I have a friend of mine who is a Russian lady, married to a guy, and she does not work and does not have children.  She spends all of her days bouncing from one social calendar event to another.  They have a nice lifestyle but I wouldn't trade this couple's life for all of the tea in China.   Whether family or an important job, or some social significance, my life has to mean something, at least to me.  I salute GQ in making some important decisions very early on in his relationship. 


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 16, 2018, 12:25:03 AM
If that money was really that common I think most of America would live in California and the rest of it would be devoid of people. I think you make that sort of money Jone, GQ and the rest of the people you live by. I don't think you mix much at all with those that don't so you think it's all common place. I'm pretty sure GQ''s wife did not enjoy a stellar rise in financial status all of her own doing. Otherwise everyone would be millionaires.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 16, 2018, 12:55:25 AM

Your own approach is completely mercenary at it's root.

How so? I pay to go meet her & her expenses while there. I pay to bring her in the country, I pay for English classes, living costs, clothing, entertainment, time when she is mot working, etc. Just because I say 'hey I don't also wish to foot the bill for a uni education for her' which would cost a fair wack and she probably already has a uni education from her home country. And after which she could swan off. I don't see how I am being mercenary here, I already would be paying for a lot. Your partner may have stuck around but there are many that don't. Take that Australian guy on here the other week, wife left him after she got an education & career and didn't give him the kids he wanted. Oh but I suppose that was down to a character flaw in himself, it's never the woman to blame of course!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 16, 2018, 02:14:58 AM
Sure she has her own mind and will, I am just saying what she decides up front she should stick to if she says she want family, children then that is what she shall get, if she says education, etc I will tell her she is on her own on that one and good luck in finding a guy that will facilitate that for her. On hearing this if she decided education is not as important as she thought it was then all is good. If she later decides shortly after getting with me she's changed her mind and wants education then it up to her to sort that, pay for it herself and make travel arrangements. Way I see it if she stated she wanted children then changed her mind why should I stump up when I was misled. If you're to soft on FSW as I have found out they will walk all over you and play you for a fool.


You should be putting that in your profile, or telling a woman from the get go, so as to not waste her time or yours. 


Women can have children and be educated, you know. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Fashionista on January 16, 2018, 05:39:03 AM
How so? I pay to go meet her & her expenses while there. I pay to bring her in the country, I pay for English classes, living costs, clothing, entertainment, time when she is mot working, etc. Just because I say 'hey I don't also wish to foot the bill for a uni education for her' which would cost a fair wack and she probably already has a uni education from her home country. And after which she could swan off. I don't see how I am being mercenary here, I already would be paying for a lot. Your partner may have stuck around but there are many that don't. Take that Australian guy on here the other week, wife left him after she got an education & career and didn't give him the kids he wanted. Oh but I suppose that was down to a character flaw in himself, it's never the woman to blame of course!


Awww...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on January 16, 2018, 08:21:35 AM
If that money was really that common I think most of America would live in California and the rest of it would be devoid of people. I think you make that sort of money Jone, GQ and the rest of the people you live by. I don't think you mix much at all with those that don't so you think it's all common place. I'm pretty sure GQ''s wife did not enjoy a stellar rise in financial status all of her own doing. Otherwise everyone would be millionaires.

TC,not sure if this post was to me or not.

For what it's worth,
I don't live anywhere near jone or GQ.

I have perhaps 20 or 30 years ago.lol

That areas cost of living  is generally higher than average,but that would depend on where, and to where it is compared.
 The salaries are also generally higher, but that might leave the average disposable income the same, maybe less, it's all relative. It varies widely within California, much less across a nation as large as the US.
If you look at US population densities ,  as far as western states,people have traditionally flocked to California. Eastern states have simply been occupied longer lol.

I certainly *mix* daily with the average American TC. Lol!!
You know, the ones making the  national average salary ,working your typical job, wife,  kids ,one dog, one cat.etc.
I live in a typical suburban home in Indiana TC. It's a university town,but your basic slice of Midwest americana.

Again I wont speak for GQs wife's advance in her career ,I'd assume it was due mostly  to her really being smart and truly busting her butt in university,and during an internship, and continuing go do so.
  My brother (her age basically) had a similar rise thru a tech
internship , up to partner, and now bought the partners out and owns  a quite successful tech firm. Since I know very well his background was not funded by anything but his own work in high school to struggling to pay for university, i know its possible on brain and busting your butt.
Sure location would play a role as more opportunity might be available in that field there .
And certainly my brother would have had an easier time if my father (his only parent)had been in a position to support him financially thru university period. So I'm not saying support or contacts don't help, of course they can,but may not have been the big factor.(id say my father instilling in him a great work ethic and great ethical and moral character was a bigger key than anything, I know my brother would tell you that quite clearly )

Anyway,
 I recommend, if curious about her career path , that you ask ,rather than assume.Thats all.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on January 16, 2018, 09:56:13 AM
How so? I pay to go meet her & her expenses while there. I pay to bring her in the country, I pay for English classes, living costs, clothing, entertainment, time when she is mot working, etc. Just because I say 'hey I don't also wish to foot the bill for a uni education for her' which would cost a fair wack and she probably already has a uni education from her home country. And after which she could swan off. I don't see how I am being mercenary here, I already would be paying for a lot. Your partner may have stuck around but there are many that don't. Take that Australian guy on here the other week, wife left him after she got an education & career and didn't give him the kids he wanted. Oh but I suppose that was down to a character flaw in himself, it's never the woman to blame of course!

Quote from: TC
How  so..

Your mentality is all from a position of what you will get from the relationship.
Or what return you will get from your troubles and expenses.
Or concerns of what you wont get, or wont keep getting  long term.


If any concerns cross your mind about her adapting to your culture and country, they are only from the mindset that *if she doesn't like it she might leave ,or leave for a more wealthy bloke*

You also worry over your time spent in communicating,  if there is no fairly immediate positive result.
You don't seem to be able to have a conversation with a fsu women unless it is
perceived to end up  in a lifetime of marraige to you.

It's a mindset of return on investment.
Few other thoughts drive it.

So you tell me TC,.
How can you define mercenary any more clearly ?


You tell me it's because you pay for this or that along the way,.but you do it only for a positive result for yourself.
Even a mercenary purchases ammo.


I'm not trying to bash you,  im really not.
I'm trying to reach you. To  get you to look in the mirror.
To look at your own motivations and thoughts that are both limiting your chances for true love, and will also  be self fullfilling prophesies of your fears.


My wife adores me TC. Yes she's not only stood by me, but I could call her today and say,listen honey. Im quitting my job,it's too hard on me and stressful. Her reply would be ,* ok , of course! And stop worrying  We will be ok, I'll go to work .* that simple.
She does so,because that is her mentality and character, who she is.Also because she knows I do the same for her. No reservations, no thoughts of if what's,returned is equal value.

How are you going to find that, with your own mindset of not wanting to do anything for her that might make her less dependent on you?



Even selfish people find partners, so you've hope :)


But the fact you don't even consider yourself mercenary , should be as wake up call to you for some self examination.

I'm really glad you wernt looking back in the late 90s.
You should thank your lucky stars the situation has improved in the FSU.
Back then any number of desperate women would have read you like a book, played ththe role of subservient and endearing,  said *yes darlink* to you about everything, not asked for anything, and ultimately used you.They would have easily fooled most anyone,and sorry,but you would have been very easy for them to read and play.
You have concerns over that now,mostly from a poor perspective as women have already shown they won't just play the easy role they can easily see solely for immigration




I'm not trying to sound condescending,
I need to improve as well, I hopefully learn something towards being a better person, husband, and father each day. Obviously I've a lot of work to do still.

I hope you at the very least start thinking of how you can be a better version of yourself,
And not just because it might make you more interesting to women lol as again thats just improving yourself ,only in the hope of a return in that  investment from others

My advice is just honestly and consciously  try to be a better you for now.
Relationship stuff will then fix itself.

Good luck. I mean that sincerely.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on January 16, 2018, 10:45:37 AM
If that money was really that common I think most of America would live in California and the rest of it would be devoid of people. I think you make that sort of money Jone, GQ and the rest of the people you live by. I don't think you mix much at all with those that don't so you think it's all common place. I'm pretty sure GQ''s wife did not enjoy a stellar rise in financial status all of her own doing. Otherwise everyone would be millionaires.

First off, I don't have the money Jone has, nor am I as rich as AJ is. Heck, I don't even own a motorcycle....I was likely the poorest s*on-a-b*tch that ever landed in the FSU tarmac. Ugliest, too. Sadly TC, your highly-skeptical, narrow vision of life and living had given a very sad perspective in many of your expressed, and shared, opinions of everything and everyone.

I’m somewhat surprised too living in one of the world’s cosmopolitan metropolis that you seem lacking in awareness of corporate-level standard, TC. Not sure if this is a testament of the wonderful city that is London, or maybe just your very narrow vision of the world you’ve been living in. Methinks the latter based on your shared life’s perspective in everything else including your social principles. Methinks you’re the one being ‘naïve’ in more than one facet of today’s life, TC.

Accounting is a brute of a career to choose. It has a very high turnover rate and it goes through a schedule grind like no other even before graduating students have an opportunity to frame their diplomas. In LA, especially with the industry’s big-4, graduating students are always courted/recruited to fill staff positions. Their base pay (which seems to me is what everyone may have missed, salary vs compensation package) can range anywhere from $45-60K/yr – depending on merit. If you survived the first or second year, one becomes a Sr. Staff. $85K-110K. Again, performance/merit based. Then Manager, then Senior Manager. You can see the escalating compensation scale. FWIW, before graduating, wifey was elated to have gotten a 'paid internship' (many are unpaid internships). Her first pay in this career was $12.00/hr.! LOL. Man, I remember her being so happy about it, too.

The period between being a staff to (sr.) manager is a beast! While not literally, though with exceptions, during ‘busy season’ these guys work 24/7 for 2-3 months straight roughly twice/year. Trust me, many couldn’t cut it their first year. Many more when they go from Sr. Staff to Managers. This was arguably the worst period for my wife, and likely the most taxiing to our marriage. Accounting folks dubbed it ‘divorce-maker’. They’re not kidding.  No such things as life-work balance. Spouses, like myself, have had to wear more than a few hats. Best I can describe my perspective on this is, it’s akin to being an anvil and a sponge for your spouse at the same time, every minute of every day. I had to be her anvil so she has a place to pound her frustration on, and at the same time learn to absorb her angst – and be a reminder these, too, will come to pass. I was scratching and clawing our walls every time her busy period comes rolling in. I used to joke my wife that when they receive their respective bonuses that spouses should equally get the same considering what we all had to go through along with them.

As you climb the proverbial ladder, your responsibilities and expected knowledge goes right along with it. The industry have very little tolerance for ambivalence and mediocrity.

Theoretically, sure anyone can do and get to where wifey is today. Anyone. Except I doubt anyone can ace the 4 CPA exams on their first attempt/s like wifey did. It is also obvious to me, based on wifey and her colleague’s progression, not everyone is tailored for this business mentally either.

Compensatory packages isn’t just ‘salary’, or, more commonly known as ‘base pay’. The package includes, always but not limited to, (cash) bonuses, stock options (401K), commissions (IA), corporate card account, etc…what range you’re in in this level is strictly performance/merit based again. This is not socialism communism where everyone gets compensated the same regardless of productivity. This information can be easily checked/verified on the internet, you know. IINM, the *base pay* range for her position is about $140K-$<200K.

As special wifey is to me, her career path is certainly not unique. I think this has largely to do with her being an 'immigrant' just like myself. Immigrants are afforded the experience of knowing what both sides of the fence is like. So we tend to look at opportunities for what they are, and one never to take for granted.

At her present level, wifey is at the very height of compensation for her level range. Thus, the next logical ‘step’ is to become a partner. Something which wifey isn’t sure she wants. The whole BD (business development) affair. She tells me maybe she’d like to get out of public accounting and enter the private industries.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on January 16, 2018, 11:00:09 AM
...She's barely 32....

Yikes! Correction. Wifey's 33, soon to be 34.

She's still a babe as ever, though.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on January 16, 2018, 11:15:53 AM
Quote from: GQblues
First off, I don't have the money Jone has, nor am I as rich as AJ is. Heck, I don't even own a motorcycle...
Lol I dint always own my own back then either , paid to ride them doesnt mean you get to keep them, they are generally crushed for fear of competing companies stealing the new development tech. Sad really, but understandable.

I have a couple now, but have actually sold off most of my stable, just don't have the time to ride or race anymore with the wee one. :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on January 16, 2018, 02:39:34 PM
there’s a certain category of poster here on RWD that displays an embarrassing lack of empathy for any human being other than themselves.  these posters just can’t stop themselves from repeatedly providing us all with their grandiose fictional self-descriptions, it’s kind of a rule here...

if you view their fictional narrative from the perspective of what insecurities drive this narrative, you will get a MUCH clearer picture of who they REALLY are.

and certainly a much more entertaining one...

also, the stuff they leave out is always much more interesting then whatever self complementing fiction they write!!

unfortunately, most of you will not understand this, and take their “stories” as the literal truth.




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on January 16, 2018, 02:51:09 PM

also, the stuff they leave out is always much more interesting then whatever self complementing fiction they write!!

Well, that is probably true about the 'interesting' things.
But in the past (before RWD) I had gotten tired of telling the true story that I come from European royalty on both sides of my family.
So now I have switched to talking about my career as a professional wrestler.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 16, 2018, 03:40:04 PM
GQ didn't you say your wife earned $250k with offices around the world? Now you seem to he saying she is earning less than half of that as an accountant.

Jumper, a lot of FSW on the FSU dating scene state they want children, often as number 1 priority  and of course a husband. So for many we would both be wanting the same thing. I think beyond that both sides have an idea of what they want, a girl may want clothes, a nice home, work less or whatever. A guy may also have wants, her to look sexy, do the cooking, domestic chores, etc. I don't see it as a mercantile exchange just different desires. That and not being a fool and messing up something good that you have going by sending her off somewhere where a load of studs are going to be trying to pull her on a daily basis. Even with a girl who you have won her heart may be won by some other guy. For me it's about not making a effort by doing FSU dating only to stuff it up by exposing her too quickly to other possibilities which would not be in my interest.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on January 16, 2018, 03:51:05 PM
GQ didn't you say your wife earned $250k with offices around the world? Now you seem to he saying she is earning less than half of that as an accountant...

Nope. The post is still upthread. Here's an average senior tax manager 'base pay' rate compiled by Glassdoor, not including stock options (401K), bonuses, commissions (IA), etc...which are directly correlated to performance. How much they are ultimately given is directly based on a CPA's performance to make up their annual 'total compensatory package'.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/los-angeles-tax-senior-manager-salary-SRCH_IL.0,11_IM508_KO12,30.htm

Ranges from $140K - $194K just as stated above, with an average base pay rate of 158K.

There are different tax managers (accountants) i.e. corporate (financial), bankruptcy (forensic), individual, audit, etc...each have varying levels of base pay.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on January 16, 2018, 04:55:37 PM
Even with a girl who you have won her heart may be won by some other guy.

If this happens you haven't done enough to get to know the woman and if she has a strong sense of morals, before you get married. I've made this mistake myself.

My ex wife is slim and attractive and so are several of the women I've dated since my divorce. The first girl I dated was 28 and men would flirt with her constantly, even in the supermarket. It's just a fact of life that men will hit on and flirt with an attractive woman, sometimes when you're with them. Unless you're with her 24/7 you have to accept this.

If this is a hang up for you and you can't trust her, it will do your head in. No matter what you think now, it's something you have absolutely no control over, without being possessive. If you behave like that, she'll sense you don't trust her, you'll eventually push her into the arms of another guy  anyway.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on January 16, 2018, 06:18:59 PM

unfortunately, most of you will not understand this, and take their “stories” as the literal truth.

So within this thread what related *stories* don't you believe?

Hadn't noticed any  over the top or unreasonable.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 16, 2018, 06:35:10 PM
If this happens you haven't done enough to get to know the woman and if she has a strong sense of morals, before you get married. I've made this mistake myself.

My ex wife is slim and attractive and so are several of the women I've dated since my divorce. It's just a fact of life that men will hit on and flirt with them, sometimes when you are with them.

If this is a hang up for you and you can't trust her, it will do your head in. No matter what you think now, it's something you have absolutely no control over, without being controlling or possessive. If you behave like that, she'll sense you don't trust her, you'll eventually push her into the arms of another guy.


No, this will never be his issue.  Look at his list of desirable "traits" and what he wants to offer.  It's all "me, me, me" and is basically kinder, küche, kirche.  Even all of what he offers is all about him.  That, coupled with insecurity which most boys lose by 15 don't make him a particularly desirable partner for any woman with anything going for her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 16, 2018, 09:57:10 PM
Trench you need a wakeup call. You should ask the women on this forum if they find your attitude attractive based solely on your writing.
I harken to think none of them would even go on a date with you. Smell the coffee man.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on January 17, 2018, 12:08:29 PM
life is not just a parable about "growing a garden", it’s about the gardener growing as well...
what greater reward can a human being ever receive than the perfect love of their family?
wasted words for this forum as the bible has taught us, “do not cast pearls before swine”
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2018, 03:18:42 AM
This has NOTHING to do with Rod's visa question - just our Trench's insecurities...  Hot women get hit on - anywhere..  If it makes you 'jealous' then you're the problem.

Trench, as you've not got any experience of UK/ EU Visa applications with a FSU partner - why is it you're now posting as if you're a 'relationship expert'  ?....

This has NOT got anything to do with insecurities MOBE. You don't know how it is like for the younger generations it fiercely competitive to get the young hot girls out there. Every heard a girl say 'I know what I'm worth' - once she comes here she will quickly see that she is worth a lot more than in the FSU. Few girls here take care of themselves these days and the ones that do have queues of guys lining up for them. Many change their bf quicker than they change their underwear. If he brought her here quickly she would realise that she can get more than unemployed/employed low level musician, Ed Sheeran he is not. That she can get more than a guy that rents his place, in short that she can get a lot younger guy around her age, with a flash car, professional job, handsome, works out and who she has a lot of chemistry with - now how long do you think Rid is going to last up against that? I'm not knocking the guy I am hardly playing in the premier league myself but by the sounds of it she is and most girls like that hook up with a guy that is. An aging Musician is likely to rapidly look put of place. Remember what Rod probably is not aware of is that here unlike the FSU there is still more focus on a couples relative age, she will become more counscious of this as time goes by and likely see Rod of more as an embarrassment.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on January 26, 2018, 01:48:10 PM
Trench, getting a young hot woman is difficult anywhere you go, it isn't any different in the FSU. Young, hot women usually prefer young, hot guys. Is that what you are? Be realistic. If you're afraid your woman will leave you, you have a very low level of confidence. Women hate that. Whether you want to admit it or not, you are insecure.

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 26, 2018, 02:40:17 PM
This has NOT got anything to do with insecurities MOBE. You don't know how it is like for the younger generations it fiercely competitive to get the young hot girls out there.

 :ROFL:

You're hilarious ...  As a dad of daughters in their v.late teens and mid  to late twenties I KNOW this is more Trench trolling

If I had a £1 for every time  I've 'heard' - well seen - the lament on social media for a 'good man', reliable, humorous, honest and DEFO  NOT a misogynist   ...

Most of the guys I know who have no problems 'pulling' in the UK are the same one's going the same in the FSU...

The penny isn't dropping for you .... as you've been told many times ..we doubt it EVER will ...

Yet, you keep on handing out 'advice' - like you know - and KEEP on proving - you don't

Every heard a girl say 'I know what I'm worth' - once she comes here she will quickly see that she is worth a lot more than in the FSU. Few girls here take care of themselves these days and the ones that do have queues of guys lining up for them. Many change their bf quicker than they change their underwear. If he brought her here quickly she would realise that she can get more than unemployed/employed low level musician, Ed Sheeran he is not. That she can get more than a guy that rents his place, in short that she can get a lot younger guy around her age, with a flash car, professional job, handsome, works out and who she has a lot of chemistry with - now how long do you think Rid is going to last up against that? I'm not knocking the guy I am hardly playing in the premier league myself but by the sounds of it she is and most girls like that hook up with a guy that is. An aging Musician is likely to rapidly look put of place. Remember what Rod probably is not aware of is that here unlike the FSU there is still more focus on a couples relative age, she will become more counscious of this as time goes by and likely see Rod of more as an embarrassment.

I KNOW Rod has more of a clue about FSU W than you...

Your insecurities and misogynistic tenancies shine through and ladies can spot them from a mile off...   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on January 27, 2018, 11:37:51 AM

 You're going to have to change your mindset if you want to be successful with women anywhere, not just FSU. Sorry, but people here have told you time and time again and it's the truth.

Why don't people understand...... he is what he is!!!!

Don't read his posts, don't respond to his posts. YOU(the board) validates what he says by responding. People stop talking when they figure out they are talking to themselves.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2018, 11:40:22 AM
@LAman ... OK my maths was wrong! ... only 8 great-grandparents ... but she just needs to prove Romanian descent for a passport ... late last year, the British Press reported that official figures showed that 7,000 Moldovans had entered the UK using this method ... so it is possible!

@msmob ... thanks for the compliment ... I am here to help people with my knowledge and experience!

As much as I am happy Rod has found a relatively easy way to bring in a hot RW and thereby help out with the UK talent pool I think this dies though demonstrate the fallacy of the way the EU works. Each EU nation can have similar rules as Romania/Moldova or Portugal allowing untold millions to become citizens of the EU. Once in they can all flock to the richest countries in the EU in the hope of becoming wealthy. Those rich nations such as the UK then get swamped and suffer acute housing shortages. That is why we voted for Brexit to make sure any immigration is channelled through our system and not bypassed without any control. This thread here demonstrates the problem precisely. Handy for Rod yes but thought needs to be given as to the overpopulation problem it causes in terms of where everyone lives. Brexit will help to stem the tidal wave of people enteeing the UK to more manageable numbers. This I hope shows why the Brexit thread should not have been closed since it is very pertinent to the situation of how a FSW may enter the UK.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on January 27, 2018, 11:42:39 AM
Why don't people understand...... he is what he is!!!!

Don't read his posts, don't respond to his posts. YOU(the board) validates what he says by responding. People stop talking when they figure out they are talking to themselves.


Maybe it's because he is based in the UK (Trench, are you in Manchester or maybe I mis-read it?) I feel the need to counsel him. Surely it's impossible to be wired this way IRL.


Trench - I won't labour the point, but look around you. Sure, we all look to FSU (or SE Asia, or Brazil or Colombia) to trade up with women. I get that. But surely in some of your female friends or male friends wives, you see attractive, working, well-educated, caring and loving mothers and wives, no? There are some here, if you aren't seeing them then you have serious blinkers on.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 11:46:37 AM
OMG, not more 'Brexit' bollox ?

You haven't told us how the UK is going to 'control' EU passport holders - who have every right to move freely via IRL and then to the UK ;)

We were told we'd be inundated by Bulgarians and Romanians when their 7 year - "you need work permits" -  rule ended - giving them complete freedom of movement

It didn't happen

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21523319 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21523319)

The irony is that the risk of 'Brexit' ENCOURAGED them to come in greater numbers - that had hitherto been falling


So, are you lying or clueless or both ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 27, 2018, 01:21:48 PM
Why don't people understand...... he is what he is!!!!

Don't read his posts, don't respond to his posts. YOU(the board) validates what he says by responding. People stop talking when they figure out they are talking to themselves.

He's been posting the same old sh*t for over a few years. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on January 27, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
He's been posting the same old sh*t for over a few years.

And the members have been posting same old sh*t to trench for over a few years.

What is the definition of insanity???
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2018, 02:11:06 PM
Oh the life I could have lived in the Ukraine, ahh :)

In the time you've been posting here, he lived with three women.  You went on two trips to Ukraine, couldn't get laid on one, and hooked up with a manipulator on the second.  Shouldn't that tell you something of how things would have gone if you lived in Ukraine?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2018, 02:21:30 PM
OMG, not more 'Brexit' bollox ?

You haven't told us how the UK is going to 'control' EU passport holders - who have every right to move freely via IRL and then to the UK ;)

We were told we'd be inundated by Bulgarians and Romanians when their 7 year - "you need work permits" -  rule ended - giving them complete freedom of movement

It didn't happen

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21523319 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21523319)

The irony is that the risk of 'Brexit' ENCOURAGED them to come in greater numbers - that had hitherto been falling


So, are you lying or clueless or both ?

Moby, this is not true, the immigration numbers have been falling since Brexit but they still oustrip emigration numbers. Add to that of course rising birth numbers and you have a problem on your hands especially with not enough housing being built.

Many Bulgarians & Romanians have come here as have many others, too many for the housing we have left.

Main thing that Rods thread highlighted is imagine if/when Ukraine joins the EU, how many Ukrainians have parents, grandparents, great grandparents in Russia? Millions upon millions. They would all be eligible for a Ukrainian passport and hence EU citizenship. If we had stayed in the EU they could all come here. Ukraine wouldn't care, it would see its arch enemy depopulated. We would see millions of people pitching up tents in the streets to all intents and purposes homeless with nowhere to go. Sheer lunacy but that is the kind of irresponsible way you & your love idol Blair would like things to go.

Yes the IRL to UK route would still be open but in order for EU citizens to be able to work in the UK they would have to put some decent amount of time into IRL first. It would not be a case if hop on a plane and your there unless it was of course to visit or live of independent income. It would receive the problem to a managable level. People generally would not bother with the IRL to UK route unless they really had a need to do it.

Take Rod's situation, before the Romanian route became discovered he wanted as quick & easy fix solution as possible. The question was how much and how far was he prepared to go, and is it justified with the stage the relationship, and is it financially sound to do so. Now because of the EU all that has become irrelevant. Essentially, UK border control/immigration are asking the very same questions of Rod that we are on this forumean, questions he should be asking himself. Not everyone does though which is why border control ask them and for a very good reason, they are there for a reason. If you don't pass the bar then there is good reason to consider why - have I known her long enough?, Am I making a move first before a solid relationship is established, are the finances sound? Is she just after a visa?, etc

Point is Mobe is that you have to start thinking responsibly. Just because immigration problems may have not hit your neck of the woods substantially or adversely affected you or your family doesn't mean it won't in the future. The EU immigration policy is effectively as we have seen with Rod's situation an open door policy to most of the world - it's was thought up by idiots.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2018, 02:23:28 PM

In the time you've been posting here, he lived with three women.  You went on two trips to Ukraine, couldn't get laid on one, and hooked up with a manipulator on the second.  Shouldn't that tell you something of how things would have gone if you lived in Ukraine?

Could we put heat down to bad luck ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2018, 02:27:44 PM
Ukrainians with Russian parents/grandparents can't get a Ukrainian passport just because of blood.  One of those parents had to be a citizen of Ukraine (not the USSR).  Furthermore, if they have Ukrainian citizenship, they have to give up their Russian citizenship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2018, 02:39:11 PM
Ukrainians with Russian parents/grandparents can't get a Ukrainian passport just because of blood.  One of those parents had to be a citizen of Ukraine (not the USSR).  Furthermore, if they have Ukrainian citizenship, they have to give up their Russian citizenship.

That's a thought, Rod's girl is Russian (from Moscow) would she too have to give up Russian citizenship if she goes for a Romanian passport? I'm assuming she would have to apply for Romanian citizenship to get this passport.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2018, 02:42:21 PM
Romania allows dual citizenship.  Ukraine does not.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on January 27, 2018, 03:23:19 PM
@Trenchcoat A little bit of friendly advice. You need to calm down and think if a FSU wife is really for you. Take a break from this forum and online dating, and think things through.

I used to work in southern England, and foreign women there were forever chatting me up. You have to feel comfortable with them (and their families) and have no pre-conceptions about dating them. My wife and I knew straight away that we had a good connection (within 48 hours), and our relationship quickly developed. The long distance between us was the potential problem, and my wife coped with it much better than I did. That it is the potential problem of FSU dating.

Keep calm and count slowly to 10! Good luck.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2018, 03:27:40 PM
Romania allows dual citizenship.  Ukraine does not.

Sure but if she has to apply to become a citizen of Romania in order to get and Romanian EU passport then she would have to give up Russian citizenship right? Because although Romania allows dual citizenship, Russia does not - Rod's girl is from Russia. So fine with Romania by Russia would be taking her citizenship off her I assume when she applies to Romania.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on January 27, 2018, 03:38:21 PM
Sure but if she has to apply to become a citizen of Romania in order to get and Romanian EU passport then she would have to give up Russian citizenship right? Because although Romania allows dual citizenship, Russia does not - Rod's girl is from Russia. So fine with Romania by Russia would be taking her citizenship off her I assume when she applies to Romania.

Russia allows dual citizenship at the moment. You need to research the FSU in detail to understand how these people 'tick'!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 03:40:04 PM
Sure but if she has to apply to become a citizen of Romania in order to get and Romanian EU passport then she would have to give up Russian citizenship right? Because although Romania allows dual citizenship, Russia does not -

Really ?



Whilst Russians must now report residency or citizenship of another nation - it is still not illegal  ..



ANOTHER Trench Howler ....


Can't be bothered to correct the others you've avoided dealing with tonight .. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 03:41:41 PM
Russia allows dual citizenship at the moment. You need to research the FSU in detail to understand how these people 'tick'!

Sorry, Blighty - beat me to it ..   

Our Trenchy is 'on form' today ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 04:05:12 PM
Moby, this is not true, the immigration numbers have been falling since Brexit

Economics, mostly ... a weaker GBP made the move here and sending money back home less sensible..

Try to DEAL with facts - UKIP and 'migration watch' lied and exaggerated the 'threat'..

UK PLC was the LEADING economy out of the 2007 crash - now it's in last place ....   go figure

http://qz.com/1082524/uk-gdp-growth-will-fall-from-the-fastest-to-slowest-in-the-g7-in-just-four-years-according-to-the-oecd/ (http://qz.com/1082524/uk-gdp-growth-will-fall-from-the-fastest-to-slowest-in-the-g7-in-just-four-years-according-to-the-oecd/)

"FIRST TO WORST
The UK will go from the fastest to the slowest-growing G7 economy in just four years"

'Responsible' is facing facts ...  spin on
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 27, 2018, 07:01:46 PM
Could we put heat down to bad luck ;D

More likely the cold hard reality that you just aren't a good catch.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2018, 10:18:40 PM
Economics, mostly ... a weaker GBP made the move here and sending money back home less sensible..

Try to DEAL with facts - UKIP and 'migration watch' lied and exaggerated the 'threat'..

UK PLC was the LEADING economy out of the 2007 crash - now it's in last place ....   go figure

http://qz.com/1082524/uk-gdp-growth-will-fall-from-the-fastest-to-slowest-in-the-g7-in-just-four-years-according-to-the-oecd/ (http://qz.com/1082524/uk-gdp-growth-will-fall-from-the-fastest-to-slowest-in-the-g7-in-just-four-years-according-to-the-oecd/)

"FIRST TO WORST
The UK will go from the fastest to the slowest-growing G7 economy in just four years"

'Responsible' is facing facts ...  spin on

It's not all about fastest growing economy but people's quality of life Moby. It's the rich that benefit from all this economic growth  The everyday citizen of the UK it has been proven has suffered declining wages in real terms despite all this economic growth. The EU & single market was there to benefit big multinationals at the expense of the everyday UK citizen.

BTW, the pound is up to $1.42 now & 1.14E with an upswing in economic growth better than forecast. Looks like the doomsayers got it all wrong Mobers ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 10:51:33 PM
It's not all about fastest growing economy but people's quality of life Moby.

Ah, so having been proven WRONG on yet ANOTHER factual subject you've moved to subjective ? !

It's the rich that benefit from all this economic growth  The everyday citizen of the UK it has been proven has suffered declining wages in real terms despite all this economic growth. The EU & single market was there to benefit big multinationals at the expense of the everyday UK citizen.

 :ROFL:

No... Plenty of EU nations I could point to pass on that wealth in improved social services

BTW, the pound is up to $1.42 now & 1.14E with an upswing in economic growth better than forecast. Looks like the doomsayers got it all wrong Mobers ;)

Trench - ALL western economies are recovering from 2007 - we ARE the slowest ... You are falling for the 'leave' spin..'Project Fear' as they referred to the dire warnings simply being scare tactics - WERE accurate in predicting - a worse economic performance that our opposition.

1/ The gains are as much due to the relative weakness of the greenback

2/ You don't mention the Euro - the currency of our biggest trading partners....WHY ? It was stable at c.1.30 ( before the polls predicted the possibility of 'Brexit')  and you are getting 'excited' about 1.14?  It's been that in Sept 2017..



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 28, 2018, 02:05:09 AM
Mobe, let me reply to the points you raised in the other thread.

Voting to Leave is not inward looking, a few might have done so probably mostly up north due to economic hardship of having to compete with migrants etc.

Many people voted to leave for sound reasons. The EU'S lack of ability to control borders (as dicussed), the seriously flawed Euro (Greek crises), the inability to deal with the Asylum problem from Syria & North Africa, the EU having dominance over us, etc.

In the end it is more a specific strategic positioning if you like than a complete no to any dealings with the EU. We are one of the richer nations of Europe and it benefits us that we decide how that wealth is spent not taken from us by those in Europe that won't have our interest at heart. Also that we decide what policies & agreements we wish to follow that are in our interests not be told what we will follow by some puppeteer in Brussels like we are there puppet dancing like a fool to their tune.

I think a lot of young people voted to leave and those that didn't many students lacked the real world experience to know what the stakes really were. They have never been out in the workplace in full time work nor unemployed, nor needing housing and so only had an academic 'ivory tower' understanding of the subject. I know what it is like as when I was a student I suffered from this a little too.

I think after we leave we will see how much more we are benefiting by leaving. No more will we have Brussels say we will do this or that without our ability to say no. No more will we have no ability to stop or even much reduce a tidal wave of immigrants coming into the UK. I think the young would be foolish to vote to rejoin the EU in its current format. I can even see the UK starting it's own economic European community in the near future if more EU nations decide to leave.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 28, 2018, 02:27:13 AM
Mobe, let me reply to the points you raised in the other thread.

Voting to Leave is not inward looking, a few might have done so probably mostly up north due to economic hardship of having to compete with migrants etc.

Many people voted to leave for sound reasons. The EU'S lack of ability to control borders (as dicussed), the seriously flawed Euro (Greek crises), the inability to deal with the Asylum problem from Syria & North Africa, the EU having dominance over us, etc.

You just walk onto punches..

The UK was not a Schengen member and had already opted out of the Directive to share the load in a refugee crisis..  HOW are these hoards getting here ....? Swimming ?  So, you fell for another leave scare tactic ?

You have FAR more to worry about if the French tell us to move our borders back to Dover...

I think a lot of young people voted to leave and those that didn't many students lacked the real world experience to know what the stakes really were. They have never been out in the workplace in full time work nor unemployed, nor needing housing and so only had an academic 'ivory tower' understanding of the subject. I know what it is like as when I was a student I suffered from this a little too.

More young - under 25 - voted to remain ... FACT ...

I think after we leave we will see how much more we are benefiting by leaving. No more will we have Brussels say we will do this or that without our ability to say no. No more will we have no ability to stop or even much reduce a tidal wave of immigrants coming into the UK. I think the young would be foolish to vote to rejoin the EU in its current format. I can even see the UK starting it's own economic European community in the near future if more EU nations decide to leave.

Hopefully, the utter disaster of leaving is now dawning - hence the howls from the likes of Rees-Mogg and Villers

We seem to be heading for  less say in making rules and begging to stay part of the trading club - with an open border between NI and Eire ..

Either that or a Corbyn govt...   Unless May quits and makes  room for the only Tory leader who won seats at the last election
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 28, 2018, 10:28:09 AM
You just walk onto punches..

The UK was not a Schengen member and had already opted out of the Directive to share the load in a refugee crisis..  HOW are these hoards getting here ....? Swimming ?  So, you fell for another leave scare tactic ?

You have FAR more to worry about if the French tell us to move our borders back to Dover...

More young - under 25 - voted to remain ... FACT ...

Hopefully, the utter disaster of leaving is now dawning - hence the howls from the likes of Rees-Mogg and Villers

We seem to be heading for  less say in making rules and begging to stay part of the trading club - with an open border between NI and Eire ..

Either that or a Corbyn govt...   Unless May quits and makes  room for the only Tory leader who won seats at the last election

Being non-Schengen doesn't go far enough, that is evident because (no offense to Rod) people from outside the EU can get EU citizenship from one member country on the basis of one of their grandparents or even great grandparents living there. Then they can bypass the UK immigration system no questions asked - what sort of immigration control is that? How can a society plan for services, housing, education, jobs etc when an immigration system such as that doesn't give them even a ball park figure which to work by. Some sort of moderate work around in an immigration system is fine to give people a fair chance, the IRL to UK  route achieves that but the current system is ridiculous.

I think you'll find Mobers that essentially we will get a decent deal our if all of this. The EU know what our Red Lines are and seem pretty comfortable working with them now. Not making the rules is fine since we will be independent and not subject to their rules. In the case of trading it's always a bartering exercise anyway, if one side is not happy they just renegotiate whatever the current rules.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 28, 2018, 01:02:01 PM
Being non-Schengen doesn't go far enough, that is evident because (no offense to Rod) people from outside the EU can get EU citizenship from one member country on the basis of one of their grandparents or even great grandparents living there. Then they can bypass the UK immigration system no questions asked - what sort of immigration control is that? How can a society plan for services, housing, education, jobs etc when an immigration system such as that doesn't give them even a ball park figure which to work by. Some sort of moderate work around in an immigration system is fine to give people a fair chance, the IRL to UK  route achieves that but the current system is ridiculous.

Haha, you are deviating from yet another fail on your part and trying to suggest another reason for 'Brexit'

Tell us how many folk have used the EU Directive 2004/38/EC to gain perm residency , oh 'expert' ? ))

How many refugees from Syria have been granted asylum ?

I think you'll find Mobers that essentially we will get a decent deal our if all of this. The EU know what our Red Lines are and seem pretty comfortable working with them now. Not making the rules is fine since we will be independent and not subject to their rules. In the case of trading it's always a bartering exercise anyway, if one side is not happy they just renegotiate whatever the current rules.

You are still not getting it ... your 'red lines' are incompatible with a land border with an EU state ....  there will not be a hard border ...

You are living with the other Brexiters in cloud cuckoo land
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 29, 2018, 02:23:35 AM
Haha, you are deviating from yet another fail on your part and trying to suggest another reason for 'Brexit'

Tell us how many folk have used the EU Directive 2004/38/EC to gain perm residency , oh 'expert' ? ))

How many refugees from Syria have been granted asylum ?

You are still not getting it ... your 'red lines' are incompatible with a land border with an EU state ....  there will not be a hard border ...

You are living with the other Brexiters in cloud cuckoo land

Point is the EU wanted us to take refugees from Syria despite any previous agreement on this. They would have put diplomatic 7 political pressure on us to 'share the burden' and the politicians here would have complied fearing upsetting the political classes. That is were it not for the referendum hitting the same time and therefore being imprudent to do so. Even still we are taking an have been taking in Asylum Seekers to molify the Asylum Huggers. Remember that story from around ten time of the referendum - the Asylum Seekers complained that they were being put in housing with all the same coloured doors so everyone knew where they were. So they are many about, even locally I know of them around.

The Red Lines are compatible with the EU & IRL they are not the same as hard Brexit. Hard Brexit is tariffs and this is not a Red Line of the Leave camp. I have already explained to you how this would be dealt with. I think you'll find the do final agreement will be very much along those lines, why? Because it would be agreeable to pretty much agreeable all sides and because it is the most common sense answer.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 29, 2018, 02:35:40 AM
Point is the EU wanted us to take refugees from Syria despite any previous agreement on this.

Cameron agreed to take 20 K from Refugee camps on the borders with Syria .... it was as much pressure from within - this was all BEFORE the vote ...

It's just another example of how some folks voted on clueless and or nonsense notions ... 


The Red Lines are compatible with the EU & IRL they are not the same as hard Brexit. Hard Brexit is tariffs and this is not a Red Line of the Leave camp. I have already explained to you how this would be dealt with. I think you'll find the do final agreement will be very much along those lines, why? Because it would be agreeable to pretty much agreeable all sides and because it is the most common sense answer.

..and I think you'll find Mr Rees-Mogg and the band of loony Tories that will put the party I've always followed into the voting wilderness and even let Corbyn in - rather than admit the game is up ... 

The govt lost it's majority ..It cannot carry the DUP into a 'hard Brexit'

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 29, 2018, 03:12:15 AM
Cameron agreed to take 20 K from Refugee camps on the borders with Syria .... it was as much pressure from within - this was all BEFORE the vote ...

It's just another example of how some folks voted on clueless and or nonsense notions ... 

..and I think you'll find Mr Rees-Mogg and the band of loony Tories that will put the party I've always followed into the voting wilderness and even let Corbyn in - rather than admit the game is up ... 

The govt lost it's majority ..It cannot carry the DUP into a 'hard Brexit'

There will alost certainly be no hard brexit in terms of tariffs - this is only likely to occur if no agreement can be reached with the EU and there is no deal. In that case it would be out of the government's hands anyway and if the DUP couldn't see that it would be a case of a GE. That is all very unlikely as an agreement is almost certain now. All sides even the DUP know what is achievable & realistic. In fact it is not all that dissimilar. Hardly anyone is calling for tariffs, so most are set on some form of free trade though not quite the same as the single market. Too many people see the divisions as deeper than what they really are and get carried away. To date all sides are cintent and that is likely to continue.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 29, 2018, 07:03:44 AM
Trenchcoat - what part of the UK news do you absorb whereby you rad 'all sides content' ?


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 29, 2018, 08:20:49 AM


I first looked at the FSU dating scene ten years back in my latE twenties and wish I prepared better between then and now. I'm getting there with regard to being in a decent position now but I could have done more sooner.

Trench, found this post from you.  You've been at this for 10 years mate?!!  Geez..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 29, 2018, 10:45:58 AM
I read that as he first started thinking about it 10 years ago, not that he's been actively searching 10 years.


2tallbill looked for about a decade, if I'm not mistaken.  He wasn't prepared to settle for just anyone.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on January 29, 2018, 12:40:05 PM
  You've been at this for 10 years mate?!!  Geez..

Hey, the trip is more fun than the destination.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 29, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Hey, the trip is more fun than the destination.

True...but I mean how many FSU girls has he actually dated or developed a relationship with?  I never thought of Russia at all until a few years ago when work brought me there.  Now I got some really good Russian lady friends and more...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 29, 2018, 03:16:33 PM
True...but I mean how many FSU girls has he actually dated or developed a relationship with?  I never thought of Russia at all until a few years ago when work brought me there.  Now I got some really good Russian lady friends and more...

Situation was about 10 years back was that I was messaging a girl on a cheap PPL site. Back then they were more frequently used as while the downside of PPL were known about they were more numerous than pay monthly. Not much in terms of free sites were around or widely known about either. That and Google translate was not really a goer, on fact I'm not sure it even existed, guys were buying physical electonic translators but they were expensive. So PPL dud the translation for you. I think the knowledge side of things has increased since those days as guys such as 2tallbill & BillyB, etc have spent almost a decade on their search and have diseminated their wisdom and learning here for newbies as they once were to benefit from. If it were not for guys like them are understanding of FSU dating would not be all that much.

Anyway, I messaged this girl for a good month or two then did a video chat. The video chat was in the agency's office with the agency terp present. The girl seemed to like me and was excited and eyeing me up a bit. I don't think she was faking but the thing is you never can tell when an agency is involved. Well it all went south when I tried to get her email address, I think all the agency BS got in the way and her profile was taken down. So that was that.

I did not spend a lot on that exercise but career matters and the recession intervened and as with most people's concerns back then economic concerns took precedence. So I went of the search for nearly ten years. I could have got back to it sooner but was busy with other stuff. I always kind if wish I focused on all this FSU dating stuff a lot sooner, it haa a lot more go in it than local dating. That though I think goes hand in hand with the knowledge side and ten years or more ago that was a lot less than today. Most it's back then were just exploring the different ways about doing FSU dating.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on January 29, 2018, 06:22:10 PM
Look dude.  I had never thought of going to Russia or any of this until recently.  I had a great happy life in Canada. 

Found a cool job in Moscow a few years ago.  Met some Russians in my city to start learning the language.  Talked to some more online and once I went over I had a few contacts.  I only lived there a few months but it was enough time to go and meet people.

Knew zero about agencies or all this stuff that you are trying to do.  The MOB thing is dead.  ALL the women I met in Moscow had jobs and were supporting themselves.  They paid their own rent, some had cars and most took vacations to Europe or USA at least once or more in a year.

They literally have zero need for guys like you.  Several of my Russian women friends went to Europe to meet guys on their own dime.

You should save up enough money for a two month trip to Moscow or somewhere and try your luck.

I met an Italian guy that would fly to Moscow for week long trips every 2 months. 

Just stop talking and do something.  Or give up this pursuit for good.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 30, 2018, 12:17:22 PM
Knew zero about agencies or all this stuff that you are trying to do.  The MOB thing is dead.  ALL the women I met in Moscow had jobs and were supporting themselves.  They paid their own rent, some had cars and most took vacations to Europe or USA at least once or more in a year.

I think you're right on that one Sting the MOB industry is now pretty much dead in the larger prosperous cities and is probably just little more than scams. The poorer places and it is no doubt still a goer but like you say in places like Moscow & St. Petersburg it's probably really more day to day dating.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on January 30, 2018, 06:29:02 PM
There will alost certainly be no hard brexit in terms of tariffs - this is only likely to occur if no agreement can be reached with the EU and there is no deal

Most people know that I am American and have no horse in this race.

I agree with Trench on this, those who disagree can name which country
doesn't want to export their products to the UK. All EU countries want
access to the lucrative UK market.

In my opinion the UK is a number of Islands that can't produce all the things they
want. They make up for this by producing banking and important services that
other countries want. There isn't anything that member states of the EU produce
that can't be acquired elsewhere. The USA, Japan, Australia, Canada, All of South
America, China and others would be more than happy to fill any void.

In my opinion there will be a few pains in the butt along the way, but the people
of the UK being a trading nation almost since time began will find a way.

In addition, remember that if the Queen of the UK is also the queen of places
all over the globe. If she asked Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc to make
a good cheese and butter deal with the UK they would respond within hours
and Germany who has the most dairy cows in the EU would be dumping out
spoiled milk for the next ten years.

The UK isn't just the a small island in the Atlantic. They are a hardy people
who went to war with France, Germany, Spain, the USA, the Dutch and
others in the past. They will survive this and they will prevail just like they
always do. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 30, 2018, 07:22:51 PM
Most people know that I am American and have no horse in this race.

Most ppl might not know that when you post daft on brexit somewhere else - you are protected... your howlers go unchallenged....not here, my friend ..

I agree with Trench on this, those who disagree can name which country
doesn't want to export their products to the UK. All EU countries want
access to the lucrative UK market.

Ri-ight... so they are scared of 'losing' sales to who ? ..Cluebat time, beel - if the UK DID do  a 'hard brexit' - which it won't - we'd be defaulting to WTA tariffs...

You REALLy don't have a scoobie WHAT you are talking about ...

The govt tried to cover up a report they had commissioned - models for differing scenarios - ALL came out with the UK worse off ..


http://tinyurl.com/beeldoesntknow (http://tinyurl.com/beeldoesntknow)


In my opinion the UK is a number of Islands that can't produce all the things they
want. They make up for this by producing banking and important services that
other countries want. There isn't anything that member states of the EU produce
that can't be acquired elsewhere. The USA, Japan, Australia, Canada, All of South
America, China and others would be more than happy to fill any void.

Except you overlook that 'UK PLC's' Crown Jewel is her Financial Services Sector ... and most nations you mention are salivating at grabbing the action - following our lemming-like jump off a cliff...


In my opinion there will be a few pains in the butt along the way, but the people
of the UK being a trading nation almost since time began will find a way.

IMHO - you aren't aware of the reality - the 'pain' started when there was a chance we might actually vote leave - our previously stable, strong currency became weaker ( what manufacturing money behind Brexit wanted- cheaper exports ) and now blows in the constant breeze of uncertainty - yet certainty that the Crown Jewel is going to be broken up and taken elsewhere - unless we wake up and stop suggesting EU citizens will lose freedom of movement.


In addition, remember that if the Queen of the UK is also the queen of places
all over the globe. If she asked Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc to make
a good cheese and butter deal with the UK they would respond within hours
and Germany who has the most dairy cows in the EU would be dumping out
spoiled milk for the next ten years.

More cluelessness...

When Russia responded with her 'counter sanctions' to nations reacting to her away games, the EU stepped in and provided subsidies and protected farmers and we - the general public - got cheaper produce ( Cheers VVP)

So, if we were on own own ... to whom would we be supplying the vast over-supply of produce ?


The UK isn't just the a small island in the Atlantic. They are a hardy people
who went to war with France, Germany, Spain, the USA, the Dutch and
others in the past. They will survive this and they will prevail just like they
always do.

Jingoistic bolloz, Beel ... We are 5 times smaller than the US by population and can't afford our current defence expenditure

There'd be nothing to survive - if we wake up to the stupidity of folks spouting nationalistic twaddle ..

When the world goes protectionist - we get wars... 


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 04, 2018, 02:20:03 PM
Trench - why do you insist on imposing your infinite wisdom on subjects (and in this case somebody's service/livelihood) that you know ZERO about and have ZERO experience with?

Because I see the smoking gun which in this case is the flowers. There is simply no need for Mila to get involved in that - Odba had three dates with her and had emailed her aftrewards. It's not like it was from someone she didn't know or perhaps there were so many men she got confused, lol. Its just very odd to even approach Odba about it let alone have a go, after all he is not her b*tch.

I don't think some women in Ukraine really realise how WM put themselves out organising and paying for the trip and most importantly the time it takes out of their schedule. Even moreso from far flung places like the US. Whatsmore I doubt they would even care even if it was highlighted to them, just some other person/guy as far as they are concerned.

Personally though Odba I think Kharkiv is the wrong place to look. Seems to be crawling with Agencies as bad or possibly even worse than Nikolaev. If there is that large amount of agencies it will set up the wrong sort of situation and the wrong type of people - agency girls. Said it before that places like Kharkiv in Ukraine are more of a dating theme park than anything else. I would do yourself a favour Odba and go to a less dating agency location next time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 04, 2018, 02:39:52 PM
I don't think some women in Ukraine really realise how WM put themselves out organising and paying for the trip and most importantly the time it takes out of their schedule.

No one is forcing men to go to Ukraine.  You aren't going to Switzerland, or France, or Italy, are you?  You are going to a dirt cheap poor country with, effectively, no functioning government, where people, including pretty white women, have to scramble to make a living.  Do you think UW don't know this?  Why should they appreciate you "blessing" them with an appearance in their country? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on February 04, 2018, 03:17:30 PM
I don't think some women in Ukraine really realise how WM put themselves out organising and paying for the trip and most importantly the time it takes out of their schedule.



And the guys end up asking those women to leave their jobs, family and friends to come live with them forever. If you ever tell a woman about the sacrifices you've made to get her to love you more, you'll probably going to regret it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on February 04, 2018, 03:20:38 PM

Personally though Odba I think Kharkiv is the wrong place to look. Seems to be crawling with Agencies as bad or possibly even worse than Nikolaev. If there is that large amount of agencies it will set up the wrong sort of situation and the wrong type of people - agency girls. Said it before that places like Kharkiv in Ukraine are more of a dating theme park than anything else. I would do yourself a favour Odba and go to a less dating agency location next time.


Again, you're commenting on an amazing City (my opinion) that you've never been to. You truly are an idiot that makes assumptions and spouts them as gospel.

Exactly what research have you done on how many 'agencies' there are in a City with a population of 1.4m?
I used to defend you but now you're either annoying or a troll.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 04, 2018, 03:28:40 PM

Again, you're commenting on an amazing City (my opinion) that you've never been to. You truly are an idiot that makes assumptions and spouts them as gospel.


Exactly what research have you done on how many 'agencies' there are in a City with a population of 1.4m? I used to defend you but now you're either annoying or a troll.
"You truly are an idiot"

 :applause: :thumbsup: :ROFL:
And another guy reaches that conclusion !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on February 04, 2018, 03:31:06 PM
"You truly are an idiot"

 :applaud: :thumbsup: :ROFL:
And another guy reaches that conclusion !


Yesterday he was talking about how he had created folders of women in different cities based on sheer volume of agency profiles there that matched his criteria. I give up!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 04, 2018, 03:47:53 PM


Again, you're commenting on an amazing City (my opinion) that you've never been to. You truly are an idiot that makes assumptions and spouts them as gospel.

Exactly what research have you done on how many 'agencies' there are in a City with a population of 1.4m?
I used to defend you but now you're either annoying or a troll.

I'm sure it is an amazing city but it's clear that Kharkiv is one of those cities rife with these Agencies. Mordinson is there, Mila and a load of others. There are plenty other cities on Ukraine or FSU in general that are not awash with agencies. They are there to meet the needs of WM going there, generally US guys who want someone else to do the work for them in lining up women. All sort of antics will of course be abound as once you accept that game you are in their control.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on February 04, 2018, 04:08:00 PM
I'm sure it is an amazing city but it's clear that Kharkiv is one of those cities rife with these Agencies. Mordinson is there, Mila and a load of others. There are plenty other cities on Ukraine or FSU in general that are not awash with agencies. They are there to meet the needs of WM going there, generally US guys who want someone else to do the work for them in lining up women. All sort of antics will of course be abound as once you accept that game you are in their control.


Name all these cities with more then say, 2-300 000 living there that don't have an agency in town, now come on.. you tossed the wording, now back it up with proof.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on February 04, 2018, 06:20:46 PM
To be fair to trench, he did say awash.

Having been all over Ukraine,  I'll say the big player agencies have affiliate local agencies most everywhere , but somne cities are seemingly more awash with them than others,or just more active in recruiting new hires.lol
On a  per capita thing I'd rate it-
Odesa, Nikolaev ,Kharkiv, vinnytsia,kherson,
Zap, Dnepropetrivsk....(donetsk ,ugansk was infamous but have wanned ?of course so was yoska ola, ru. back in the day)

I noticed a pile of shady agencies in kharkiv, one in particular has the second story as a modeling agency and double dips the photo profiles for fun and profit.

All subjective,and no I don't think it truly influences the local population of women in general in cities that large. lol
  There are far bigger influences to any random woman you might meet than the existence of affiliate agencies in a  city .
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 04, 2018, 06:35:18 PM
No idea about agencies in Ukraine. but it just sounds like another excuse from Trench.

In this age of the internet no one with half decent social skills needs an agency.  Trench could have 10 agencies helping him but if the women don't like him he's outta luck.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 04, 2018, 06:57:05 PM
It’s not an excuse. Just an observation. A flawed one, but an observation nevertheless.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 04, 2018, 09:56:39 PM
nah it's just another excuse he makes to justify not doing anything. he's a talker not a doer.

weather too cold, can't go now. too many agencies, can't go. no time to Skype. no money. don't wanna message girls too early, too much competition from guys. once you bring em over they'll find a richer, more handsome dude. they only want the visa... sound familiar?!!!!

dude can't even pull at his local pub.  ain't no chance he's getting one in Russia or Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 04, 2018, 10:24:08 PM
Nope.  His post was split from another thread.  It wasn't about him at all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 04, 2018, 11:57:31 PM
No idea about agencies in Ukraine. but it just sounds like another excuse from Trench.

In this age of the internet no one with half decent social skills needs an agency.  Trench could have 10 agencies helping him but if the women don't like him he's outta luck.

Sting, I've never really used agencies nor had too. Save for a decade back when I did a brief online thing with a PPL site but most guys tried a bit of that back then. I don't really get all the bitchyness from you Sting. I suspect it's a case of he who is having a go is covering up for his own problem in lack of social skills which is prob ably worse than mine. I mean we get all the 'I lived in Moscow & know so many women' from you and yet here you are dateless bitching on me with every comment I put up mostly about my apparent lack of social skills and not so much about what I said. Maybe you should look at yourself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 05, 2018, 12:12:26 AM
Sting, I've never really used agencies nor had too. Save for a decade back when I did a brief online thing with a PPL site but most guys tried a bit of that back then.

Ahem..

10 years ago, many of us were posting why to stay away from PPL sites... and I have never used an agency .. perhaps you didn't get the memo
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 05, 2018, 12:23:23 AM
Sting, I've never really used agencies nor had too. Save for a decade back when I did a brief online thing with a PPL site but most guys tried a bit of that back then. I don't really get all the bitchyness from you Sting. I suspect it's a case of he who is having a go is covering up for his own problem in lack of social skills which is prob ably worse than mine. I mean we get all the 'I lived in Moscow & know so many women' from you and yet here you are dateless bitching on me with every comment I put up mostly about my apparent lack of social skills and not so much about what I said. Maybe you should look at yourself.

Hhahah dude pretty funny to see you all riled up like this!!  no seriously man. Do you even believe half the stuff you write?
Everyone here gave up trying to help you.   Dateless huh, I don't need to share with you what goes on in my personal life.  Don't be jealous bro.

I know a few single ladies in St Petersburg and Moscow but I sure as heck ain't giving you their contacts.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 05, 2018, 12:49:21 AM
Hhahah dude pretty funny to see you all riled up like this!!  no seriously man. Do you even believe half the stuff you write?
Everyone here gave up trying to help you.   Dateless huh, I don't need to share with you what goes on in my personal life.  Don't be jealous bro.

I know a few single ladies in St Petersburg and Moscow but I sure as heck ain't giving you their contacts.

It must be at least 20 times that the Trench has responded to criticism  in a variant of what is aimed at you --remarkably similar theme !
Being a socially inept  hopeless  case is one thing-- but offending others for the sake of it -- shows what a little person he is.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 05, 2018, 01:04:10 AM
It must be at least 20 times that the Trench has responded to criticism  in a variant of what is aimed at you --remarkably similar theme !
Being a socially inept  hopeless  case is one thing-- but offending others for the sake of it -- shows what a little person he is.

Well I did try to help him at first like many others...then learned that he doesn't care.  If he can't accept the truth then nothing will shake him outta it.

A person's character is revealed when you hit a sore spot with them.  Insults from him are amusing to me.  Lack of social skills could be a big understatement.  Here is a grown man almost 40 who talks like a teenage boy going through puberty.  It's frankly embarrasing.  I get some big laughs at his comments.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 05, 2018, 01:48:47 AM
Well I did try to help him at first like many others...then learned that he doesn't care.  If he can't accept the truth then nothing will shake him outta it.

A person's character is revealed when you hit a sore spot with them.  Insults from him are amusing to me.  Lack of social skills could be a big understatement.  Here is a grown man almost 40 who talks like a teenage boy going through puberty.  It's frankly embarrasing.  I get some big laughs at his comments.   



The fact that I don't take stuff you say in means I've judged it not the way I wish to proceed. In doing so it does not make me hopeless. It does also not mean I have no clue socially. Just because I am big enough to admit I'm not top tier socially doesn't mean I am hopeless all the time. Do you not think I know to keep it toned down a bit when around women/watch what I say. End of the day some people are better at social skills, some better at Maths, some at practical skills, some at sport, some at music, some at acting, etc. We all have our strengths and weaknesses but only some of us are big enough to admit it. Others hide it by pointing to someone else who's not crash hot on social skills and repeatedly pointing out to all to see their problem whilst hopi g to hide their own. I'm guessing the single girls you know in Moscow are the ones that were still left single after they passed over on you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 05, 2018, 04:30:03 AM
That was a joke Sting of course I didn’t mean it seriously I was just messing about. After all this is a casual forum but some guys on here take it all too seriously. I tend to find a bit of sense of humour works well with a girl in the right setting.

No, Trench - your 'sense of humour' is just off the socially inept scale - hence your skill-set re relationships and empathy with your peers.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on February 05, 2018, 04:54:06 AM
I'm sure it is an amazing city but it's clear that Kharkiv is one of those cities rife with these Agencies. Mordinson is there, Mila and a load of others. There are plenty other cities on Ukraine or FSU in general that are not awash with agencies. They are there to meet the needs of WM going there, generally US guys who want someone else to do the work for them in lining up women. All sort of antics will of course be abound as once you accept that game you are in their control.

Name all these cities with more then say, 2-300 000 living there that don't have an agency in town, now come on.. you tossed the wording, now back it up with proof.

Hey trenchcoat, your not ducking this are you?

Still waiting on your proof for this statement, you seem to have such in depth knowledge about Ukraine.  I am very curious to know what cities you refer to..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 05, 2018, 06:36:16 AM
Hey trenchcoat, your not ducking this are you?

Still waiting on your proof for this statement, you seem to have such in depth knowledge about Ukraine.  I am very curious to know what cities you refer to..

I know guys like you & Jay etc regard yourself as such conasuieurs of the Ukraine. I'm not about to match you by traipsing all over Ukraine to rival your status, you are welcome to it. I need only to Google and take note of the feedback here to know where most of the agency activity is, i.e where all the punters go. It's no incidence that most that go there the first time or so frequent the same areas - they feel more comfortable that way I guess. Just like some English go to Spain and all want to live in ex-pat communities rather than amongst the locals, or sorry should we all bow in deference to you and stay mute any time we wish to mention Ukraine howsoever little our knowledge may be.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 05, 2018, 06:43:19 AM
No, Trench - your 'sense of humour' is just off the socially inept scale - hence your skill-set re relationships and empathy with your peers.

What sense of humour someone likes Moby varies we are all different. Would I enjoy being among those that like my sense of humour or those that don't? Clearly I would not care to mix with those that don't it would be silly for me to want to please them and try and fit in with those I would unlikely naturally be comfortable with. On here of course you get all sorts so it's a mixed bag and as a result we rub of against each other, not literally of course ;D Not just me but others can frequently be found on here having a go at each other, you & Jay for example at the moment on another thread or you & Sting a few days back on Rod's thread. It's just the way it is.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on February 05, 2018, 08:25:48 AM

I know guys like you & Jay etc regard yourself as such conasuieurs of the Ukraine. I'm not about to match you by traipsing all over Ukraine to rival your status, you are welcome to it. I need only to Google and take note of the feedback here to know where most of the agency activity is, i.e where all the punters go. It's no incidence that most that go there the first time or so frequent the same areas - they feel more comfortable that way I guess. Just like some English go to Spain and all want to live in ex-pat communities rather than amongst the locals, or sorry should we all bow in deference to you and stay mute any time we wish to mention Ukraine howsoever little our knowledge may be.

Yet you still profess that you're an expert on such cities even though you've never been there. You made a comment the other day about basing your search on the number of women in each city that matched your criteria. Does it not make sense that in all probability the number of agencies will, more than likely, be proportionate to the demand and the number of ladies there? You were talking about going to Moscow - a city of 12m people so I'm sure there'll be a good number of agencies, good and bad, that operate there.Kharkov has a large female student population. You wrote off Sochi because there weren't enough women that met your strict requirements.

I'm sure there are a few dodgy agencies in Kharkov, but I don't think there are anywhere near as some places. When you consider that Odessa and Nikolaev have larger numbers of MOB-type businesses operating there than most other cities in Ukraine where the population is higher, it should bring some perspective to things.

I have experienced and seen things happen in Odessa that I would personally think are extremely unlikely to happen somewhere like Kharkov. I don't want to make assumptions like you do, it's just my opinion, but until I've been in a city physically it's all it can be without relying on the genuine trip reports of helpful folks here.

But, as you have NO experience with any agency, how can you comment other than make generalisations and assumptions? I'm surprised you haven't used agencies before, given that you admit yourself your social skills are lacking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on February 05, 2018, 08:43:40 AM
I know guys like you & Jay etc regard yourself as such conasuieurs of the Ukraine. I'm not about to match you by traipsing all over Ukraine to rival your status, you are welcome to it. I need only to Google and take note of the feedback here to know where most of the agency activity is, i.e where all the punters go. It's no incidence that most that go there the first time or so frequent the same areas - they feel more comfortable that way I guess. Just like some English go to Spain and all want to live in ex-pat communities rather than amongst the locals, or sorry should we all bow in deference to you and stay mute any time we wish to mention Ukraine howsoever little our knowledge may be.

Cant you start all your comments everywhere with that.

I have NO idea what the ratio agency's/population is in any city in Ukraine, or for that matter in the world.

but I didn't make such statement either as you did:
Quote
There are plenty other cities on Ukraine or FSU in general that are not awash with agencies.
That is a statement, you are telling everyone as if you know this is a fact, when to be honest, you have NO idea how it really is. So I am interested to know how YOU know this.

Yes I do know about for example:
Chernigov (Tjernihiv/Chernihiv) Pop:~300 000
I know 3 big agency's and I would guess a whole lot of smaller ones/terp ones

Zhytomyr (Zjytomyr) Pop: ~270 000
I know two big agency's has offices there, and again, I would guess a large number smaller ones just as Chernigov

Kiev (Kyiv) - Pop: just shy of 3 million
Countless of agency's, big and small

that is what I know, so that is what I an comment on -  unlike you that have NO idea about ANYTHING but has to make a comment in every freaking thread that turns up here.. regardless of what it is about.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 05, 2018, 11:09:13 AM
. I'm guessing the single girls you know in Moscow are the ones that were still left single after they passed over on you.

If this is a casual forum then why are you so upset when people tell you the truth.

There you go at another attempted "insult" hahaha... And exactly how many lady friends in Russia or Ukraine do you currently have?  I am guessing close to zero.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 05, 2018, 01:20:42 PM
I know guys like you & Jay etc regard yourself as such conasuieurs of the Ukraine. I'm not about to match you by traipsing all over Ukraine to rival your status, you are welcome to it. I need only to Google and take note of the feedback here to know where most of the agency activity is, i.e where all the punters go. It's no incidence that most that go there the first time or so frequent the same areas - they feel more comfortable that way I guess. Just like some English go to Spain and all want to live in ex-pat communities rather than amongst the locals, or sorry should we all bow in deference to you and stay mute any time we wish to mention Ukraine howsoever little our knowledge may be.


Most are going to bigger cities.  Bigger cities are going to have agencies.  Even you went to big cities on your two visits to Ukraine, so it's sort of hypocritical for you to suggest you are somehow different.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on February 05, 2018, 01:26:39 PM

Most are going to bigger cities.  Bigger cities are going to have agencies.  Even you went to big cities on your two visits to Ukraine, so it's sort of hypocritical for you to suggest you are somehow different.


+1. And now he's shortlisting cities (and chose St. Petersburg) based on the high volume of ladies profiles there. kind of contradictory.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 05, 2018, 01:47:46 PM
Didn't Trench say he was gonna stop posting on the forums a month or so ago?   i think that lasted a few days or a week and he's back at it as usual.  dude flip flops so much. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 06, 2018, 08:01:22 AM
Yet you still profess that you're an expert on such cities even though you've never been there.

I have never professed or stated anywhere on this forum that I am an expert. If anything I have on occasion stated I am not. I will for the record here state I am not an expert and I don't seek to be one. I am not looking to travel every city in Ukraine and FSU in the next ten years in every which way possible to make myself one, I leave that up to Mobe ;D

I just offer my opinion on any given subject where I think OP may like to hear what all forum members opions are, professed experts or not. A forum is essentially a discussion board so let's discuss. If it were a closed forum/comment board just open to the experts answering random strangers questions then it would be a different matter. It's up to the OP to decide whose contribution is worth anything to them and what is helpful. I can't believe there are so many people on here that get their nose out of joint by someone suggesting this of that based off them going to FSU  a few times. After all you contribute what you want and be happy with it, my contribution takes nothing off yours and is just my opinion independent of any others on here. You may feel it is worth nothing but it's nothing to get steamed up about. It may not be so just let it be. I must say though on the recent thread by Rod that there was the suggestion made that his personal situation was not relevant, just focusing on the visa was. Now some of the 'forum experts' came out to diss me on that, how wrong they were when it turn out his girl could get a Romanian passport which we would have not known about if we just focused on the visa issue - a case of not seeing the wood for the trees I think. So you see I think all members expert or not should be able to say their piece without constant hounding and sniping from those forum experts who no doubt feel their territory in being an expert in all things FSU  is being encroached upon.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 06, 2018, 08:19:32 AM
Didn't Trench say he was gonna stop posting on the forums a month or so ago?   i think that lasted a few days or a week and he's back at it as usual.  dude flip flops so much.

I did and will be going back to this, some interesting threads came up such as Rod's that I think we nearly all learnt something contributing to. I was also wanting to get back into the FSU scene but was a bit pre-emptive. Like I say the weather is not good. As has been stated snow is half a meter deep in Moscow and that can be a problem for flights and getting around and enjoying the place - that is why I prefer to leave the winter. Easier just to go when the weather is at least half way decent. I'm still not planning anything till April at the earliest so not there yet but will be. Till then yes I will be commenting less on here, perhaps just not much at all. I do rather feel that too many threads are becoming blocked blocked by a torrent of objectionism by some of the 'forum experts' who get their back up by anyone else's suggestions/opinions. Not just me that gets it but others as well such as BillyB who 'in my opinion' truely does have worthwhile contributions to make, not that I attack any who make contributions I don't feel are worthwhile. So  it really is getting to the point where it's no worthwhile contributing as having a threads bunged up with objectionable posts not even on topic of the OP is of no use to anyone.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: tfcrew on February 06, 2018, 11:46:27 AM
I have never professed or stated anywhere on this forum that I am an expert.

But then here lies the expertise...
After glancing through this thread and others [in which I haven't commented] I can see that the opening poster has done a splendid job of making other posters just not like him very much.
Now, name calling [idiot etc.] can be expected from certain other members [some not all] as their design routinely involves harassment and various forms of trolling.
                                       :popcorn:
That stated, a marriage to any [foreign or domestic] lady requires great maturity and responsibility and even then, it's a pretty rough going sometimes.
Best of luck there.
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 06, 2018, 11:47:54 AM
Till then yes I will be commenting less on here, perhaps just not much at all.

Good.  btw, brevity is the soul of wit.  you often ramble on much ado about nothing.  Learn to cut your endless paragraphs to one succinct sentence. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 07, 2018, 12:46:30 PM
some interesting threads came up such as Rod's that I thin

 Like I say the weather is not good. As has been stated snow is half a meter deep in Moscow and that can be a problem for flights and getting around and enjoying the place - that is why I prefer to leave the winter.

speaking of Rod he's heading over to Moscow this week in the bad snow.  A man of action.  Ain't no white fluffy stuff gonna stop him.  Meanwhile...more excuses.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 07, 2018, 02:00:12 PM
Trench has made two trips the last one, around six months ago.  How many should he make, and what time frames between trips is acceptable to not be an "excuse"?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 07, 2018, 05:06:30 PM
speaking of Rod he's heading over to Moscow this week in the bad snow.  A man of action.  Ain't no white fluffy stuff gonna stop him.  Meanwhile...more excuses.

In the UK even less than half of this 'white stuff' would bring London airports to a grinding halt. Fancy camped out on a nice hard uncomfortable plastic seat for hours? maybe days on end waiting to see if you can get a flight out. That is what you would get from London Airports in bad weather. Rod's girl does not work so she is off all the time anyway, so is Rod, if however you book and the girl both book time off work and it all turns into a big farce either with big delays or not being able to get there at all then its going to end up a miserable and disappointing situation. Sure, you can chance it, I could go away and would if I had to if I needed to for the relationship/girl really wanted it, but I could be giving myself a hard and uncomfortable time of it - but if I waited a month or two, then I can avoid all of those wintery pitfalls.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 07, 2018, 05:18:18 PM
You don't live in a country that receives a lot of snow.  I do.  That much snow wouldn't even delay flights here.   When flights are cancelled here due to weather, announcements are made, and people don't usually go to the airport.  Airlines will provide updates on when flights will be rescheduled. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 07, 2018, 06:38:29 PM
Trench has made two trips the last one, around six months ago.  How many should he make, and what time frames between trips is acceptable to not be an "excuse"?

His last trip was 6 months ago? i missed that, I thought it was years ago...and what happened to the girl?

It's not about the time frame or number of trips.  It's the attitude he projects. always making excuses, something is never ideal so he can't go.

First time I went to Russia was fast.  I got the job offer, started the visa process and bam was there a month later.  No excuses or worrying about winter time, this or that... And that wasn't even for a girl but a job.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 07, 2018, 06:51:05 PM
His last trip was 6 months ago? i missed that, I thought it was years ago...and what happened to the girl?

It's not about the time frame or number of trips.  It's the attitude he projects. always making excuses, something is never ideal so he can't go.

First time I went to Russia was fast.  I got the job offer, started the visa process and bam was there a month later.  No excuses or worrying about winter time, this or that... And that wasn't even for a girl but a job.

The first girl who met him  fled before she finished her coffee!! :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 07, 2018, 07:47:54 PM
The first girl who met him  fled before she finished her coffee!! :ROFL:

Don't rub it in too much hehe.  Did he meet these girls through an agency or online?  He won't try to Skype or talk to them normally before he meets so I assume they were agency girls out for the take. And he got took. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on February 07, 2018, 08:06:13 PM

It IS a CITY, not a town. And it is one of the best in the US  >:(

Boston in Massachusetts and San Francisco part of California are perhaps the two greatest cities in the United States. If you care to read, I was referring to cities or towns in England.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 07, 2018, 08:09:42 PM
You don't live in a country that receives a lot of snow.  I do.  That much snow wouldn't even delay flights here.   When flights are cancelled here due to weather, announcements are made, and people don't usually go to the airport.  Airlines will provide updates on when flights will be rescheduled.

That's the problem, because it is so infrequent that we get much snow, etc here when we do many forms of transportation are unprepared for it. They've never really bothered to invest much in preparing for it as it happens infrequently. My guess is that after years of this happening it is not shortsightedness but they've calculated that they will spend less by rescheduling/cost of the disruption than it it would cost to prepare for the eventuality long term, just another case of the tight attitude of companies in the UK. Trust me we see on the News here normally at least once a year travellers sleeping rough at airports.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 07, 2018, 08:23:55 PM
Don't rub it in too much hehe.  Did he meet these girls through an agency or online?  He won't try to Skype or talk to them normally before he meets so I assume they were agency girls out for the take. And he got took.

The first girl I spent a week with, I think it is the second girl to whom you refer - I did not Skype with her and only went out to meet her, leaving too little time to seriously devote to meeting another, plus I was in Nikolaev so needed to be careful of the actual 'agency girls' if I looked for another around there. We met and talked for a little while, we ate, she had a cocktail, we seemed to get on well enough but her English was pretty poor. Even still we talked a while about this and that but I don't think the chemistry was there and as 2tallbill will tell you when a girl has decided its a no-go long term she doesn't hesitate and moves on. It's the dating game and just the way it is, it was not great for me but you have to take the rough with the smooth same for anyone.

You seem to spend a lot of time on here knocking me Sting, I can't imagine you see much action at all, even though you profess you do to protect your ego the amount of time you spend on here tells me this is bs. You also professed to being well in with the FSU dating scene in Moscow but later admitted in one of you more honest down to earth moments that you found difficulty in finding one that would stay with you long term, etc. You make out on here that you're all that but obviously you aren't and are just putting on this front and constantly attacking me to avoid the all too inconvenient truth of your won problems. Face up to you're own shortcomings Sting instead of trying to divert attention mostly of your own from your shortcomings.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 07, 2018, 08:36:44 PM

You also professed to being well in with the FSU dating scene in Moscow but later admitted in one of you more honest down to earth moments that you found difficulty in finding one that would stay with you long term, etc.

You make out on here that you're all that but obviously you aren't and are just putting on this front and constantly attacking me to avoid the all too inconvenient truth of your won problems. Face up to you're own shortcomings Sting instead of trying to divert attention mostly of your own from your shortcomings.

Show me the exact post where I said that?  You are making things up completely.  Finding one to stay with me long term?  Marriage isn't even my goal man.  I am dating for fun these days.  Stop twisting other people's words to suit your agenda.  Again you aren't listening.

If I showed you the photos of the girls I dated in Moscow perhaps you would be jealous. but I have no need for petty games. 

You wouldn't believe the stories if I told you anyways.  Funny you keep mentioning shortcomings.

How many dates have you been on since going back to the UK?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 07, 2018, 08:41:27 PM
I ain't knocking you for no reason man.  I'm actually trying to help you but you can't seem to get it.  Many other members here just insult you, have you read what they said about you?

I told you to get a concrete plan, book a flight, talk to girls on Skype and start making friends with them.  Did you listen or do any of that?  No. Well then what exactly are you doing here yapping away. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 07, 2018, 10:12:12 PM
I do admit I'm probably too harsh on you. but everytime you write something it is so contradictory to common sense.  That's why so many other members see you as a troll.

And you lashing back with personal insults means I probably hit a sore spot with you.  People don't get that upset if it weren't true.

You saying I don't get action or am putting on a front is really you being hurt.  If I told you my story in Russia you wouldn't believe it anyways. 

Figure out why things aren't going well and change it.  Most people here are turned off by your writing and attitude.  That is a reflection of your character/personality. 

I wouldn't be surprised it is similar in real life.  Learn to be a listener and a friend.  Women like that stuff.  If you are a killjoy it saps the energy out of others.  And unfortunately that is the impression you portray here.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 08, 2018, 04:16:19 AM
Show me the exact post where I said that?  You are making things up completely.  Finding one to stay with me long term?  Marriage isn't even my goal man.  I am dating for fun these days.  Stop twisting other people's words to suit your agenda.  Again you aren't listening.

If I showed you the photos of the girls I dated in Moscow perhaps you would be jealous. but I have no need for petty games. 

You wouldn't believe the stories if I told you anyways.  Funny you keep mentioning shortcomings.

How many dates have you been on since going back to the UK?

You really have no idea how bad things have gotten here in the UK for guys wanting to date girls, but then you are Canadian so how could you. It's basically the problem girls have finding decent guys in the FSU but in reverse, all the decent girls are snapped up by their early twenties. Others are either career obsessed that they stay single, obese or more increasingly suffering mental health problems so severe/numerous that make them undatable at least for a LTR. The UK is cracking up bad because if all of this but were constantly told modern values will bring us a better society, there not its getting worse by the moment.

I can't remember exactly what you said about Moscow women if it was not that then it was something that told me you are not quite what you make yourself up to be in many posts. That you have some difficulty with them.

Ita not my attitude that is the problem, it is the way UK society is at present. Reverse the situation for a moment to help you understand - you think a decent guy if he goes to the FSU to live that after getting with one FSW and living there he is not going to be tempted by others? Remember I said he decided to live there in this theoretical scenario. So you think the other women will not throw themselves at him even if married or in an LTR there? Considering it's either him or the dregs of society, basically nothing. Of course they are going to throw themselves at him and the woman would rightly be concerned about this. After all many guys not all but many particularly if they had never had such attention before will be like a kid in a candy store. It's the same situation in the UK but in reverse. I really do think the UK is most likely way worse than a lot of Canada or US save a few exceptions/places.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 08, 2018, 04:31:30 AM
You really have no idea how bad things have gotten here in the UK for guys wanting to date girls, .

 :ROFL:

You are funny, Trench

Normal guys have no problem dating in the UK .. I DO have an idea while its 'hard' for you ..   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 08, 2018, 09:38:54 AM
:ROFL:

You are funny, Trench

Normal guys have no problem dating in the UK .. I DO have an idea while its 'hard' for you ..   

Why what is your idea while its 'hard' for me? Don't tell me the usual twaddle about my attitude, social skills, etc. I'll tell you now Mobe dating among the younger generation is 'a lot' different to how it was in your day. What you really think feminism from the 70s onwards has no affect, that the growth of the female population entering the workforce and pursuing careers has no affect? That the male/female relationship dynamic is left completely unaffected by these changes or if they are the affect is only positive across the board, that there are never any negative affects of such changes even if not envisaged at first.

Don't tell me you take the Lib Dem line of a progressive society in which these changes can't possibly have any negative affect and the vision of the society such changes make is always a rosy one, lol.

I will tell you now that there are loads of guys I know who haven't had a lot of joy with women and haven't for a long time and no they are decent enough guys - they may not be the dogs b*llocks, some local celebrity or 'personality' or a particularly good job but they are altogether everyday sort of guys. The problem is many women just don't want to know because the dating dynamic has completely changed since your day. Women are now competing against men for good jobs and houses, once they have these why do they want a man without? why do they want a man in a lower paid job and/or not even on the housing ladder? What role would a man have for a woman that has it all? (or at least all she wants without relying on a man as traditionally would be the case). Or do you think nothing has changed since your day?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 08, 2018, 10:20:11 AM
Why what is your idea while its 'hard' for me? Don't tell me the usual twaddle about my attitude, social skills, etc.

Well, you said it ..   


I'll tell you now Mobe dating among the younger generation is 'a lot' different to how it was in your day. What you really think feminism from the 70s onwards has no affect, that the growth of the female population entering the workforce and pursuing careers has no affect? That the male/female relationship dynamic is left completely unaffected by these changes or if they are the affect is only positive across the board, that there are never any negative affects of such changes even if not envisaged at first.

'Silly boy' you KEEP forgetting that between my Bro and I we have 5 daughters - four of which who can drive and are 'big girls'  - who have b/fs and we aren't blind..   They're just smart enough not to choose a guy who has BIZARRE ideas about women and their 'place' ...




Don't tell me you take the Lib Dem line of a progressive society in which these changes can't possibly have any negative affect and the vision of the society such changes make is always a rosy one, lol.

Hardly, being - just about - a Tory voter ...    Another Trench 'theory' bites the dust .. 

Nothing's changed so radically - it's just easier to figure out someone's real life and to know to stay away from weirdos

I will tell you now that there are loads of guys I know who haven't had a lot of joy with women and haven't for a long time and no they are decent enough guys - they may not be the dogs b*llocks, some local celebrity or 'personality' or a particularly good job but they are altogether everyday sort of guys. The problem is many women just don't want to know because the dating dynamic has completely changed since your day. Women are now competing against men for good jobs and houses, once they have these why do they want a man without? why do they want a man in a lower paid job and/or not even on the housing ladder? What role would a man have for a woman that has it all? (or at least all she wants without relying on a man as traditionally would be the case). Or do you think nothing has changed since your day?

Sorry, Trench  but if these'decent' guys have anything like the 'sense of humour' or beliefs you have   - they will, indeed, find dating hard.

I've dated British woman that earnt more ( had more assets ) than me and it didn't 'bovver' me ...    ( or them )

You just keep proving why you keep failing.



 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 08, 2018, 10:39:46 AM
Well, you said it ..   


'Silly boy' you KEEP forgetting that between my Bro and I we have 5 daughters - four of which who can drive and are 'big girls'  - who have b/fs and we aren't blind..   They're just smart enough not to choose a guy who has BIZARRE ideas about women and their 'place' ...



Hardly, being - just about - a Tory voter ...    Another Trench 'theory' bites the dust .. 

Nothing's changed so radically - it's just easier to figure out someone's real life and to know to stay away from weirdos

Sorry, Trench  but if these'decent' guys have anything like the 'sense of humour' or beliefs you have   - they will, indeed, find dating hard.

I've dated British woman that earnt more ( had more assets ) than me and it didn't 'bovver' me ...    ( or them )

You just keep proving why you keep failing.

No but you no doubt had your own house more or less paid for and decent earning income.

You have only daughters so therefore cannot know what it is like at the other end of the gender equation for guys these days. I'm talking normal enough guys that guys that lose out not lazy guys or really weird guys. If you mean by weird a guy that has not got good social skills its not weird it just means his social skills are not that great, luck of the draw. I know many women in the UK regard men as weird who don't have good social skills, I see nothing weird about it, a weird guys to me is someone really bizarre, guys that are particularly strange behaviour, or acting/looking. If by 'Big Girls' you mean your daughters are fat then they will get a far more limited selection of guys open to them - essentially just chubby chasing guys will go for them and there are not many of them in the UK, to most guys fat is a big turn off in women, a few that aren't chubby chasers will stomach them as nothing else around but most will not.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 08, 2018, 10:53:21 AM
No but you no doubt had your own house more or less paid for and decent earning income.

There you go - ASSuming .. 

At the turn of the Millenium my Dad died playing on the same course as Bing Crosby - different hole ... While I was out in Spain comforting me Ma and sorting out getting his body back to blighty a company I suppled - my 'best customer' - bounced a VERY large chq and subsequently went bust ...

Once all these things were put to bed I told my first wife she could have the house - I'd seek 40 percent  when the youngest finished full-time education and started from scratch... 

I wasn't much of a catch - but had no problem dating.  There's ANOTHER Trench 'theory' busted..

You have only daughters so therefore cannot know what it is like at the other end of the gender equation for guys these days.

))


Poor 'ol Trench just keeps walking onto punches..   You may remember V has a son and I was his step-dad from 17 years until now?

He never had a problem attracting lasses and I take v. little credit for that.  He had no UK qualies, spoke mid-Atlantic 'cartoon' English and couldn't drive until he was 24

Stop making excuses and blaming the UK girls...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 08, 2018, 11:16:57 AM

Once all these things were put to bed I told my first wife she could have the house - I'd seek 40 percent  when the youngest finished full-time education and started from scratch... 

I wasn't much of a catch - but had no problem dating.  There's ANOTHER Trench 'theory' busted..

))


Poor 'ol Trench just keeps walking onto punches..   You may remember V has a son and I was his step-dad from 17 years until now?

He never had a problem attracting lasses and I take v. little credit for that.  He had no UK qualies, spoke mid-Atlantic 'cartoon' English and couldn't drive until he was 24

Stop making excuses and blaming the UK girls...

So there fat then ;D Well I say this for you Mobe you're a crafty operator, keeping your ex out of the divorce courts where she could have claimed all of the house without any return once the children reached Adult age.

Thing is with your step son UK women that are looking for a guy aren't all looking for a rich guy or intelligent guy, if he displays good social skills/extrovert behaviour then all the stuff you mention won't matter, he'll get the girl. Girls here are not like girls in FSU, in the FSU girls look for intelligent guys and are not so worried if he is not a local celebrity/ think he is wonderful on the social front - they look for a guy that can provide, who is stable, etc sure being a jerk will get them running away I know not to do that. You no doubt know all this in your extensive travels out there. The economy focuses what they look for, some guy who has a big ego, ozzes confidence is no use to them if he cannot hold down a job and lacks prospects. Here it is different many girls want to be at the epi-centre of the social universe, if your not displaying a 'look at me' aura then you are not the sort of celebrity status these girls seek. You of course are of an older generation before all this 'hollywood fame, got to be somebody' culture hit us. Many of the girls in the UK these days are the height of idiocy, they thing by dating the local extrovert tosser somehow makes them 'a celebrity' or feel like one, it is unfortunately what they aspire to and delude themselves into thinking they are.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 08, 2018, 01:14:11 PM
Well I say this for you Mobe you're a crafty operator, keeping your ex out of the divorce courts where she could have claimed all of the house without any return once the children reached Adult age.

Must you KEEP posting daft ?

1st wife battled me in Court re my visits and kids coming out to Cyprus AND my offer - which - many wasted thousands that our daughters should have enjoyed  - later -  is what she was told she must accept.

I shall now add lack of legal knowledge to your
1/ Political
2/ Brexit
3/ Dating
4/ Economic
5/ Sense of humour

deficits..

Thing is with your step son UK women that are looking for a guy aren't all looking for a rich guy or intelligent guy, if he displays good social skills/extrovert behaviour then all the stuff you mention won't matter, he'll get the girl. Girls here are not like girls in FSU, in the FSU girls look for intelligent guys and are not so worried if he is not a local celebrity/ think he is wonderful on the social front - they look for a guy that can provide, who is stable, etc sure being a jerk will get them running away I know not to do that. You no doubt know all this in your extensive travels out there. The economy focuses what they look for, some guy who has a big ego, ozzes confidence is no use to them if he cannot hold down a job and lacks prospects. Here it is different many girls want to be at the epi-centre of the social universe, if your not displaying a 'look at me' aura then you are not the sort of celebrity status these girls seek. You of course are of an older generation before all this 'hollywood fame, got to be somebody' culture hit us. Many of the girls in the UK these days are the height of idiocy, they thing by dating the local extrovert tosser somehow makes them 'a celebrity' or feel like one, it is unfortunately what they aspire to and delude themselves into thinking they are.

Once again, you simply prove you  have no idea..

I moved to Cyprus - set up a biz - found my CY partner was a cheat and started again ... my then eth RU partner was Divorced from a dollar millionaire - had her own home - no mortgage and lent me her car .  I paid the bills









Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 08, 2018, 01:50:34 PM
Must you KEEP posting daft ?

1st wife battled me in Court re my visits and kids coming out to Cyprus AND my offer - which - many wasted thousands that our daughters should have enjoyed  - later -  is what she was told she must accept.

I shall now add lack of legal knowledge to your
1/ Political
2/ Brexit
3/ Dating
4/ Economic
5/ Sense of humour

deficits..

Once again, you simply prove you  have no idea..

I moved to Cyprus - set up a biz - found my CY partner was a cheat and started again ... my then eth RU partner was Divorced from a dollar millionaire - had her own home - no mortgage and lent me her car .  I paid the bills

So you'be been through a few then, gives me the impression you went with whatever and didn't focus on their character enough. I think if you hadn't proposed a deal in court to the first wife you would have got taken so did well there. Even 40 percent for a guy in a divorce court is a very good outcome and no doubt not often achieved.

And yes I have to keep posting daft :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 08, 2018, 02:43:24 PM
Trench stop the trainwreck.  I lived in London in my late 20's.  Had no problem getting a date there.  And not in Moscow either. 

Girls like guys and vice versa. It's the same all around the world. 

I suggest you ask a female friend what their impression is of you.  The answer could guide you and make you realize what you are lacking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 08, 2018, 03:50:41 PM
I notice moby didn't dignify your digs at his family with a response.  FTR, I have seen photos of moby's daughters.  He posted them once elsewhere, though just for a short time.  They are extremely attractive and no, they are not fat.


I don't think the break up of a marriage is necessarily about character.  Trench, you have never raised children, you've never lived with someone else, and you seem to have a very narrow perspective of life.  Divorce often brings out the worst in people who otherwise are of good character.  Most of the time, it's about pain and fear - the pain of loss and rejection, the fear of being alone.   I don't expect you to understand.


I found your comments about UK women humorous.  So, it's ok for men to reject women because they are not model material, but that same guy, with a low income and no home, is supposed to be attractive to a woman who owns her own home?  You're worried about losing half your property to a woman, yet don't see it from the other side.  I think most of the time, when men say they "can't find" good women, it is because they are unrealistic in their expectations, and vice versa.  You can argue until the cows come home that the dating scene is dismal, but it's really just an excuse for you wanting to punch above your weight.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 08, 2018, 04:36:56 PM
  Trench, you have never raised children, you've never lived with someone else, and you seem to have a very narrow perspective of life.  Divorce often brings out the worst in people who otherwise are of good character.  Most of the time, it's about pain and fear - the pain of loss and rejection, the fear of being alone.   I don't expect you to understand.


A close relationship/marriage is not likely to be all beer & skittles over a longer term! Issues.problems arise in all sorts of ways. They are not always fatal to the relationship - the overall bigger picture of a relationship tends to override .

Funnily enough --when I think of these things it is not with my female long term partners - but --  a now departed long term close male friend ( a mate -- not of the sexual type! for the record!!)
Over many years he was an integral part of my life -- spending a lot of time with me,my family,often staying with us ,dropping in at meal times etc etc   We often travelled overseas together,sharing accommodation often and that was often over weeks at a time.
Later he worked for me .At that time he would stay in my apartment  3/4 days a week too !
Well , the summary is that he drove me crazy--he drove my ex crazy! ( She got on great with him in general terms) He had never been married and mostly had lived on his own --or with his mother -- and with close continual exposure - the habits and mannerisms etc became grating !
Over the years we had developed the habit when travelling of sitting well apart where possible - and after the specific purpose of a trip was concluded -- to go our separate ways . There was only so much time I could contain myself !!!!
He passed away at a premature age  a few years ago now -- and I loved this guy like a brother - and he was 100% in my corner in every aspect of my life.
That all said -- given all the positives of that relationship -it was still with limitations.

On this forum -MrsB often has said that you don't really know someone until you live with them . I agree with that totally ! Note- that does not mean  on a 7 day holiday !
The experience of actually living with someone makes you look at the practical issues involved --it is one thing to allow your little head to rule your thinking and entirely another to use your big head !
Realistically -at some point  allowing your heart some headroom is a good idea !

Given the generalisations made above --I  often despair when I read guys telling us here how time /financially pressed they are and that they have a 7 or 10 day trip to find a wife !!!!!!!


ps  I post for the general interest -- and not to Trenchcoat
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 08, 2018, 05:07:51 PM
I do admit I'm probably too harsh on you. but everytime you write something it is so contradictory to common sense.  That's why so many other members see you as a troll.

And you lashing back with personal insults means I probably hit a sore spot with you.  People don't get that upset if it weren't true.

You saying I don't get action or am putting on a front is really you being hurt.  If I told you my story in Russia you wouldn't believe it anyways. 

Figure out why things aren't going well and change it.  Most people here are turned off by your writing and attitude.  That is a reflection of your character/personality. 

I wouldn't be surprised it is similar in real life.  Learn to be a listener and a friend.  Women like that stuff.  If you are a killjoy it saps the energy out of others.  And unfortunately that is the impression you portray here.

No -- you are being kind  --too kind !

I bolded the part I want to comment on.

For me --making friends is the first step to a potential relationship.
Many years ago( many many!!) when I was divorced and back in circulation as a 20 something yo -- with zero intention of getting married again-- I ran into many women who were intent on doing a marriage interview on dates -often the first date ! Many in their later 20's thought that they were running out of time etc etc. The net result was I focused on younger girls  who were not so intent on immediate marriage as their goal !
I often thought of that time in dealing with fsuw -- and how strange and out of sequence talking of marriage was almost before you had actually met!

So-- that is my preface to my point--- making friends-- and lots of them is a good idea. At no stage have I gone to a first real life meeting thinking "this is the one" ! BTW --the bigger the age difference -- the more likely that will not be anyone else's idea either!!
My purpose --is always to be friendly - that is it.

Out of that -I have become friends with a lot of people in Ukraine -guys as well as girls -friends. Some girls -- attract me as a friend-- not as a partner -for whatever reason/s . Some became that way over time -some immediately with no romantic interaction.

I consider all that as normal .

From meeting and getting along  -- I get to meet their friends and acquaintances,work mates etc etc and get invited to go places -some where it is possible to meet people !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 08, 2018, 10:54:36 PM
thanks Jay..it seems that Trench takes everything like a personal attack because he hasn't has much luck, yet won't bother to listening to how to change that.  Oh well.

Sometimes it's better to be friends first and not even have the intention of dating.  I have a few Russian lady friends who are just friends, and we talk about our own dating experiences.  There is no hidden agenda to date them and they don't feel it. 

You made a good point.  When you have real friends they will introduce you to their social circle and single lady friends.  And it helps alot when people are mutual friends as the trust level is higher.

But this takes effort.  I think most posters will agree that Trench bemoans his poor luck way too much and this negative attitude repeals people and is very unattractive. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on February 14, 2018, 04:51:18 AM
I never thought I would see one of RWD's Grandees in trouble with their relationship so it's a real shame to see ML's post here. ML you've given me some great advice during my time here so while I don't feel qualified to give you any advice I fear I must.

To my mind the seeds of FSW relationship problems are sown in the early stages of our relationship with them. Often we are totally unaware we are even making them, I was. I think the problem here is your wife has ended up a career woman, this sort of westernisation is almost always a disaster. As Boethius so elequently put across my point on this a few threads back - kinder, kuche, kirsche. Direct a woman to these and few will be your troubles start talking about her career desires early on in meeting a girl and the seeds for future career destruction of your relationship are sown. I fear we may be too far along the railroad tracks for this relationship to be saved ML and there be no alternative than to return to go and start over in the great FSU dating game in search of a new hottie. I wish you well in your endeavours on all of this ML ;)

Why? What kind of compulsive disorder do you have that forces you to give advice about things you know nothing about?

Mental illness? Mom dropped you on the floor as a child to many times? 
That you have some sort of combination of letter disorder I think most have already discovered, you can't express yourself without incoherent rambling , often 2-3 different thoughts in your head at once and almost always unreadable incoherent fantasies in your posts. Always about something you know nothing about but just guess, it's like you think there is a prize here for posting crap.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 14, 2018, 10:21:26 AM
Couldn't have put it better

Trench - you really do have as much right to post as anyone - but try to make it informed ... or ask questions..

You get trodden on for posting bollox about stuff you don't have a clue about

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 14, 2018, 02:12:06 PM
Why? What kind of compulsive disorder do you have that forces you to give advice about things you know nothing about?

Mental illness? Mom dropped you on the floor as a child to many times? 
That you have some sort of combination of letter disorder I think most have already discovered, you can't express yourself without incoherent rambling , often 2-3 different thoughts in your head at once and almost always unreadable incoherent fantasies in your posts. Always about something you know nothing about but just guess, it's like you think there is a prize here for posting crap.

hahah..that was a perfect diagnosis of Trench.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 14, 2018, 02:22:08 PM
Couldn't have put it better

Trench - you really do have as much right to post as anyone - but try to make it informed ... or ask questions..

You get trodden on for posting bollox about stuff you don't have a clue about

Of course Mobers you are the only one who knows anything :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 14, 2018, 02:30:58 PM
Why? What kind of compulsive disorder do you have that forces you to give advice about things you know nothing about?

Mental illness? Mom dropped you on the floor as a child to many times? 
That you have some sort of combination of letter disorder I think most have already discovered, you can't express yourself without incoherent rambling , often 2-3 different thoughts in your head at once and almost always unreadable incoherent fantasies in your posts. Always about something you know nothing about but just guess, it's like you think there is a prize here for posting crap.

Simply put the esteem on which I hold ML is too great for me to feel it appropriate but the man's fallen on hard times so much so that I feel I must offer up any offerings of conceivable help that I may. I can only but hope those thoughts will be of use to him and perhaps us all even.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on February 14, 2018, 02:42:06 PM
Simply put the esteem on which I hold ML is too great for me to feel it appropriate but the man's fallen on hard times so much so that I feel I must offer up any offerings of conceivable help that I may. I can only but hope those thoughts will be of use to him and perhaps us all even.

you call that post you wrote as "giving advice" ?  Seriously?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 14, 2018, 03:43:13 PM
Well Trench, your advice sucked big time. You can’t “direct” a person to do anything and hope to have a harmonious relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 14, 2018, 04:28:02 PM
Of course Mobers you are the only one who knows anything :cluebat:

Most certainly more than you... what with your atrocious relationship 'advice'

You ARE and expert in being long-term single and your opinions simply demonstrate why ;)

Still, you do manage to unite folks in their opinion of you ((
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 15, 2018, 02:46:37 PM
I don't think anyone listens to any relationship advice.  People know, intuitively, what is best for them, or they need to learn some life lesson by choosing a particular path.  Laying out a variety of options is just food for thought. 


Trenchcoat has been told time and again that if the attitudes toward women he displays here are accurate, they practically guarantee he will not have a happy relationship.  Yet, those obviously are core beliefs for him, and he isn't willing to change them, or to listen to posters who can see his approach will not create a long lasting relationship.  So, he'll learn the message he's been given the hard way, or suffer setbacks and keep doing the same thing.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 15, 2018, 05:56:33 PM
I don't think anyone listens to any relationship advice.  People know, intuitively, what is best for them, or they need to learn some life lesson by choosing a particular path.  Laying out a variety of options is just food for thought. 


Trenchcoat has been told time and again that if the attitudes toward women he displays here are accurate, they practically guarantee he will not have a happy relationship.  Yet, those obviously are core beliefs for him, and he isn't willing to change them, or to listen to posters who can see his approach will not create a long lasting relationship.  So, he'll learn the message he's been given the hard way, or suffer setbacks and keep doing the same thing.

But does attitude really matter if a girl is into you, sure it may not always create a harmonious relationship but you could get on perfectly well with each other. Take Donald Trump for instance, some perhaps many of his attitudes many may find disagreeable, but he has a wife etc that stand by him, he doesn't remain dateless.

Attitude is known to be one of the hardest things to change with somebody, its why we keep arguing from the same standpoint we adopt on here. Is Moby likely to change his opinion on Brexit and his stance on Remain however so much we argue, certainly not. Just the same as I am not going to change my position on Brexit & Leave but we keep arguing over it.

That said while my attitude remains the same on here, there are/were of course things I did/do not know about FSU dating so I ask a question. The responses may differ, often it takes further examination discussion & argument for OP to determine what is right. Others may come to a different conclusion to the OP or have other knowledge or experience that may tell them otherwise. I don't think its peoples attitudes that a person comes here looking to be set/reset for them but gaps in knowledge/lack of knowledge that they want/need filling in order to make sense of the situation at hand.

I think its people with opposing attitudes that causes such angst on here rather than the courses of action being weighed up.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 15, 2018, 07:40:03 PM
Of course attitude matters. Your attitude suggests the FSU is not somewhere you should be looking for a spouse.

Donald Trump is on marriage #3, and has allegedly cheated on all of his wives. His second wife cheated on him, wife #3, based on photos, can barely stand him and rumours are, was an escort. Is that the model of marital success you wish to emulate? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: tfcrew on February 16, 2018, 10:38:29 AM


Donald Trump... has allegedly cheated...

Kind of like Bill Clinton huh?

Quote
I didn't really want to be first lady

(http://www.gazetaexpress.com/public/uploads/image/2017/01/633x347/main-inaurgaration-kiss_1484946159-4924324.jpg)



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 16, 2018, 11:10:53 AM
Bill Clinton wasn’t held up as an example to emulate. Donald “grab them by the pussy” Trump was.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 26, 2018, 07:11:29 PM

Maybe too young. What is the age difference?

Not very big.



To further add, I think one of the main things you have to think of Kyn is that over there there are few decent men, bring her back here however and she will have a lot of choice. You've already told us you don't finish first with women in this country and given the dating situation of females having the upper hand dating in this country you're not in an uncommon position. However, its only a matter of time until she sees that if you brought her back her. If she's into you enough she may stay or she may decide one of the competition is so much better than you.

You're idea of studying over there is not a bad one that you mention in another thread but remember you are not providing whilst you are studying, unless you can find a source if income as well at the same time.

I've just brought up the pic off her now that I'm on my laptop, she is kind of attractive in a studious sort of way. I think you would have to at least bring her up on Skype or travel to see her to get a better all round idea of her. Your earning potential is something you need to start thinking of now as well I think as being a student is often restrictive on this and to hold much esteem for a FSW you generally need at least a basic income if not better. That's my thoughts anyway.
Just stop, Trench.  Your posts prove you know virtually nothing of the FSU, you don't know the men there, and you are making sweeping statements on their characters.  I can assure you, I know 1000X the number of FSUM that you do, and of all those men, I can count on my fingers those that are drunkards, are untrustworthy (usually go hand in hand), or would be bad husbands.  When in Kyiv last summer (2017), I can't tell you how many families I saw walking in parks, or having picnics, typically, with the father preparing shashlik.  Here, I routinely see FSUM shopping with their wives and children.  So this idea that there are few decent men is a fairy tale told to stupid Westerners to manipulate them.

There is ZERO lack of quality men in the FSU who are under 35 years of age - exactly the demographic you and kyn are pursuing.  That is a fact.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2018, 07:42:51 PM
Not very big.

Just stop, Trench.  Your posts prove you know virtually nothing of the FSU, you don't know the men there, and you are making sweeping statements on their characters.  I can assure you, I know 1000X the number of FSUM that you do, and of all those men, I can count on my fingers those that are drunkards, are untrustworthy (usually go hand in hand), or would be bad husbands.  When in Kyiv last summer (2017), I can't tell you how many families I saw walking in parks, or having picnics, typically, with the father preparing shashlik.  Here, I routinely see FSUM shopping with their wives and children.  So this idea that there are few decent men is a fairy tale told to stupid Westerners to manipulate them.

There is ZERO lack of quality men in the FSU who are under 35 years of age - exactly the demographic you and kyn are pursuing.  That is a fact.

The last girl I was with told me the guys in Kherson that are left are all either druggies, stupid, mental, low lifes, alcoholics, etc - essentially the dreggs of society. I'm guessing there is not a great economic climate there with post Soviet industrial degeneration. I kind of got the feeling she was being straight up in this regard - after all why go looking for a guy abroad, you certainly don't get the same number of European women looking abroad as those from the FSU for example, so there must be a real reason they look abroad. I see little reason for her to manipulate me on this aspect there is little for her to gain in doing so, in fact more likely to lose, if I think there are loads of women there in a similar situation I may go there to please myself with any number of them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 26, 2018, 07:50:59 PM

The last girl I was with told me the guys in Kherson that are left are all either druggies, stupid, mental, low lifes, alcoholics, etc - essentially the dreggs of society. I'm guessing there is not a great economic climate there with post Soviet industrial degeneration. I kind of got the feeling she was being straight up in this regard - after all why go looking for a guy abroad, you certainly don't get the same number of European women looking abroad as those from the FSU for example, so there must be a real reason they look abroad. I see little reason for her to manipulate me on this aspect there is little for her to gain in doing so, in fact more likely to lose, if I think there are loads of women there in a similar situation I may go there to please myself with any number of them.

So what do you expect her to tell you?  "Decent men don't want me."???  It's just like your rationale of all UK women being fat, which is untrue.

We heard the same rationales from women from the Baltics, another "MOB" stomping ground, right up to the date the Baltics were admitted to the EU, at which point, the "MOB" industry there dried up.  With EU membership, did the men suddenly become sober?  More desirable?  Or did all the women suddenly leave of their own accord?  You're a little old to believing in these fairy tales.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2018, 08:04:23 PM
So what do you expect her to tell you?  "Decent men don't want me."???  It's just like your rationale of all UK women being fat, which is untrue.

We heard the same rationales from women from the Baltics, another "MOB" stomping ground, right up to the date the Baltics were admitted to the EU, at which point, the "MOB" industry there dried up.  With EU membership, did the men suddenly become sober?  More desirable?  Or did all the women suddenly leave of their own accord?  You're a little old to believing in these fairy tales.

So why the difference in the Baltics before and after EU membership?

Well I know with the last girl decent guys would pass over her where she lives because of her materialism - wanting then to buy her stuff. Pretty much all western guys would also. I think there is some truth in there being some dregs there just as there is in fat girls here but it is perhaps not as numerous as thought in both cases perhaps. If you are correct and there is generally some other reason they are looking abroad then the big question is 'why?'

I guessing if we reject the 'no decent members if the opposite sex' trail of thought then we are most probably suggesting that in many a case there is some reason for that person being single - a difficult aspect of their personality in some way perhaps most likely. Which is then a question of asking ourselves weather we as an individual can successfully deal with this difficult personality trait. So with Kyn it would vd a case of him finding out what the real deal is with the girl he is going to see is in still being single & hence looking abroad.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 26, 2018, 08:10:37 PM
So why the difference in the Baltics before and after EU membership?

Why do you think?

Quote
Well I know with the last girl decent guys would pass over her where she lives because of her materialism - wanting then to buy her stuff. Pretty much all western guys would also. I think there is some truth in there being some dregs there just as there is in fat girls here but it is perhaps not as numerous as thought in both cases perhaps. If you are correct and there is generally some other reason they are looking abroad then the big question is 'why?'

For young women not married before, many reasons - more material wealth, easier life, an ability to move forward in the society, a different way of life.  One of the posters here said she knew she couldn't find what she was looking for there - I knew exactly what she meant, and it doesn't mean all the men there are bad, nor that she was bad, or that she couldn't find a partner there, or was looking for a mule.  There was just a misalignment in what she wanted in life, and the expectations of, or what the society she came from, found desirable.

Quote
I guessing if we reject the 'no decent members if the opposite sex' trail of thought then we are most probably suggesting that in many a case there is some reason for that person being single - a difficult aspect of their personality in some way perhaps most likely. Which is then a question of asking ourselves weather we as an individual can successfully deal with this difficult personality trait. So with Kyn it would vd a case of him finding out what the real deal is with the girl he is going to see is in still being single & hence looking abroad.

Wow, an 18 year old girl is single.  Stop the presses!

You are going to find exactly what you are trying to avoid, because that is what you are looking for. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 26, 2018, 08:21:24 PM
Why do you think?


Can you ask an easier question for him?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2018, 08:23:48 PM
Why do you think?

For young women not married before, many reasons - more material wealth, easier life, an ability to move forward in the society, a different way of life.  One of the posters here said she knew she couldn't find what she was looking for there - I knew exactly what she meant, and it doesn't mean all the men there are bad, nor that she was bad, or that she couldn't find a partner there.  There was just a misalignment in what she wanted in life, and the expectations of, or what the society she came from, found desirable.

Wow, an 18 year old girl is single.  Stop the presses!

You are going to find exactly what you are trying to avoid, because that is what you are looking for.

I've no idea about the baltic/EU thing Boe, you brought it up after all.

Ok, so Kyn's girl desires western lifestyle/society, where does that leave him? Facing a possible immigration mule situation? Yes many 18 year old girls can be single but the good ones don't remain so for long, plus few in the west look abroad for a guy.

Are you trying to tell me I'm looking for a materialis tic girl?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 26, 2018, 08:29:51 PM
Because when women could emigrate with their men, they didn't need Western husbands anymore.  That doesn't mean they weren't good wives to their Western husbands, just that the means to a better material life, or the life they believed they desired, was available directly.

Why do you assume that because a woman wants to live in the West, she is looking for a mule?  Women who don't want to emigrate aren't open to marrying WM, unless the man is willing to move to her country.  This idea you have always espoused, of looking for a woman who doesn't want to move, is, frankly, stupid.

Eighteen year old girls often remain single for a long time, maybe even a decade or more.

I'm saying you are going to find what you fear.  Life usually works like that, in my observation.  It's the universe giving you what you want, or need.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 26, 2018, 08:40:17 PM
You guys are overanalyzing everything.  Let Kyn go and meet this girl, have a coffee or dinner.  See if they even like each other.  Throw out all this talk about visa mules and ulterior motives.  Could it be she's just a normal girl trying to find a guy?

Trench, your lack of real world experience keeps showing up everytime you post.  There's many Russian girls who are single and in their 20's and  30's.  Or some have married and divorced quickly.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 26, 2018, 08:43:11 PM
Because when women could emigrate with their men, they didn't need Western husbands anymore.  That doesn't mean they weren't good wives to their Western husbands, just that the means to a better material life, or the life they believed they desired, was available directly.

Why do you assume that because a woman wants to live in the West, she is looking for a mule?  Women who don't want to emigrate aren't open to marrying WM, unless the man is willing to move to her country.  This idea you have always espoused, of looking for a woman who doesn't want to move, is, frankly, stupid.

Eighteen year old girls often remain single for a long time, maybe even a decade or more.

I'm saying you are going to find what you fear.  Life usually works like that, in my observation.  It's the universe giving you what you want, or need.

If they are moving with being part of western society as a priority then doesn't this then give the danger of the guy being used as an immigration mule?

I'm not saying find a woman that doesn't want to move. I'm saying go to FSU, live there as if you are permanently staying there and tell the girl so. The girls I would just bring up from the dating sites as usual and try and find one that would accept me in FSU or abroad. This way I know she is into me, it should be no trouble for her to date me locally as she is there anyway and as she was on a foreign dating site moving abroad should also be ok.

Materialisthe women, well many attractive women I guess might be materialistic. Only time will tell and whether I can learn to deal with them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 26, 2018, 08:50:51 PM
Living there will change nothing, in terms of who you attract.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 02:11:03 AM

I'm not saying find a woman that doesn't want to move. I'm saying go to FSU, live there as if you are permanently staying there and tell the girl so. The girls I would just bring up from the dating sites as usual and try and find one that would accept me in FSU or abroad.


It's obvious you've never lived in any FSU country.  If you are in Moscow most foreigners are there temporarily for a year or 2. Usually teaching, working.  No girl is gonna believe that you moved permamently to Russian or Ukraine.  And what will your story be when you are there?
You can't commit to doing even a 1 week trip.   Highly doubt you would go there for longer.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2018, 02:30:47 AM
Because when women could emigrate with their men, they didn't need Western husbands anymore.  That doesn't mean they weren't good wives to their Western husbands, just that the means to a better material life, or the life they believed they desired, was available directly.

This I accept is probably true enough, when Poland joined the EU and they got the right to live & work here no longer were they stowing away illegally on ships to get here (this I saw with my own eyes on a day trip to France, a Polish guy was apprehended on board the ship). Anyway, us UK guys thought great here comes lots of hot Polish women for us with a different attitude to UK women. A Polish guy I know had apparently beautiful Polish lady and she had good ways until she came here at least. Unfortunately in most perhaps nearly all cases they tend to stick to their own. A guy I know tried hitting on one but no joy, even a somewhat wealthier English guy wouldn't have much more luck I don't think. Evendors polish women that are unattached seem to seek out single polish guys more it seems.

So all us poor UK guys got was a load of Polish taking up our jobs and housing and no more joy on the dating front. Perhaps we should argue for equal access to Polish women in the present EU negotiations, lol. Now many Polish rent and they are reliable payers as they are used to paying for what they receive unlike many of the UK benefit crowd, they are decent people but they sometimes take more than one job, accept real low pay and/or overwork themselves to get the money in. All this just creates an overly competitive environment for the native population, housing is particularly acute here. Once we leave the EU this situation may eventually go back a little to how it was but it helps demonstrate the sort of mess being part of the EU got us in. Fortunately it doesn't look like Russia itself will ever join the EU :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2018, 02:35:22 AM
It's obvious you've never lived in any FSU country.  If you are in Moscow most foreigners are there temporarily for a year or 2. Usually teaching, working.  No girl is gonna believe that you moved permamently to Russian or Ukraine.  And what will your story be when you are there?
You can't commit to doing even a 1 week trip.   Highly doubt you would go there for longer.

I've committed to doing a one week trip four times in the past. Yes I can commit to doing longer when in the right position. I will leave it open ended in the permanency front, it will be long term so long as I please which should be enough for girls to accept that they may not necessarily feel entitled to wanting to move to the UK as I may wish to stay there however long.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2018, 02:57:01 AM
Living there will change nothing, in terms of who you attract.

Probably right, but I would be able to see more of them and get to know them more, I would also be there under different terms as they could not demand they live with me in the west if they are unsure if I wish to live there or in FSU in the future. As a reasonably well off foreign guy I would be able to provide a decent standard of living in the FSU at least. I know Bounder seems to be doing alright in Moscow and while he is earning decent money he is hardly loaded.

Apart from the money front the only other type I could attract are those women that are more intellectual like Kyn is going for. I have two undergrad degrees and an MA along with a whole host off minor qualifications so don't come up short there ;D An 18 year old would probably not suit me though, even for Kyn he would be waiting for her to finish Uni so a three year wait there before life even begins.

So where I might find an intellectual girl I do not know. Many girls out in the FSU do the Uni thing without being that intellectual as some do here. There are of course professional women in the FSU but I am unsure of whether they are into a relationship or just furthering their career more in the west. As we see from KYn his girl seems to be stressing the desire to get to the west as a big ambition which has to be worrying for the guy, i.e is it me she wants or immigration?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 05:16:51 AM
I will leave it open ended in the permanency front, it will be long term so long as I please which should be enough for girls to accept that they may not necessarily feel entitled to wanting to move to the UK as I may wish to stay there however long.

Dude for a native English speaker you write quite poorly.  I don't think I could construct such a rambling sentence if I tried.

Anyways you keep harking to the immigration theme that some girls supposedly want.  Lots of Russians want to leave their country.
It's not only intellect but social acuity, grace.  You can be book smart but still come across as clumsy when you talk.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 27, 2018, 11:55:11 AM
I have two undergrad degrees and an MA along with a whole host off minor qualifications so don't come up short there

Right..that proves it .. a UK Degree means nothing, any more((
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2018, 11:59:25 AM
Right..that proves it .. a UK Degree means nothing, any more((

You b'stard! :mooning:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 27, 2018, 12:05:24 PM
Dude for a native English speaker you write quite poorly.  I don't think I could construct such a rambling sentence if I tried.

Anyways you keep harking to the immigration theme that some girls supposedly want.  Lots of Russians want to leave their country.
It's not only intellect but social acuity, grace.  You can be book smart but still come across as clumsy when you talk.

I always thought acuity = intelligence ..'social intelligence' .....

Be careful, Stinger - lest you join the Trench club of writing 'English' in a way that says HUH ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 03:00:41 PM
I always thought acuity = intelligence ..'social intelligence' .....

Be careful, Stinger - lest you join the Trench club of writing 'English' in a way that says HUH ?

You totally missed the analogy.
Acuity can mean intelligence but encompasses more.  I am comparing intellect which refers to "book smarts vs street smarts, or IQ vs EQ".
Guess your English isn't up to par either eh? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 27, 2018, 03:12:07 PM
Right..that proves it .. a UK Degree means nothing, any more((

Wheaties packet?
The future after Brexit ---  a UK full of Trenchcoat level intellect ! :cluebat: :trainwreck:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 27, 2018, 03:13:58 PM

You totally missed the analogy.
Acuity can mean intelligence but encompasses more.  I am comparing intellect which refers to "book smarts vs street smarts, or IQ vs EQ".
Guess your English isn't up to par either eh? 

I have read the term "social acuity" used by journalists, and it always sounded strange, even misused, to me.  Acuity, I've always thought, means sharpness, or an ability to think/see/hear clearly.

Perhaps Sandro or ML will weigh in.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 03:26:42 PM
I have read the term "social acuity" used by journalists, and it always sounded strange, even misused, to me.  Acuity, I've always thought, means sharpness, or an ability to think/see/hear clearly.

Perhaps Sandro or ML will weigh in.

It's just a word. Social acuity means how well you interact with people.  What you are thinking of is "mental acuity" which is another common phrase.  And that does refer to a sharpness of the mind.

No need to get into a kerfuffle, just grab a dictionary. 

No matter how many degrees one has if they can't interact, communicate well with others in a real life setting then it is a detriment.

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on February 27, 2018, 03:28:30 PM
Oxford Dictionary
 
Noun - Acuity -

Sharpness or keenness of thought, vision, or hearing.

‘intellectual acuity’

‘visual acuity’
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on February 27, 2018, 03:32:11 PM
I have read the term "social acuity" used by journalists, and it always sounded strange, even misused, to me.  Acuity, I've always thought, means sharpness, or an ability to think/see/hear clearly.

Perhaps Sandro or ML will weigh in.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acuity

Acuity is nearly synonymous with at least one sense of sensitivity, yet, as is so often the case with closely-related words, there are subtle differences worth observing before you substitute one of these words for the other. Acuity does refer to a form of sensitivity, but it is most often applied to the perceptual senses (as in “visual acuity” or “auditory acuity”). It is also frequently used in reference to the intellect (as in “mental acuity”). Sensitivity has a broader range of meanings than acuity does, including “the capacity of being easily hurt.” It may be used of inanimate objects such as radios (“the sensitivity of the instruments was carefully calibrated”), a context in which acuity is unusual.

- - - - - -

Many, many of our English words (and probably in other languages also) are used in contexts which are far removed from the original meaning.

Best not to bicker too much about a particular word, but rather use other words and examples to get across the meaning you wish to convey.

I have been in financial meetings where 15-20 minutes or more were devoted to a couple of guys/gals arguing over some concept/event/situation, when it turned out that they weren't even talking about the same thing.  Each side was using a particular word . . . but it meant something entirely different to each side.
Best to toss in a few synonyms to the conversation, and often that clears things up.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 27, 2018, 03:36:52 PM

I have been in financial meetings where 15-20 minutes or more were devoted to a couple of guys/gals arguing over some concept/event/situation, when it turned out that they weren't even talking about the same thing.  Each side was using a particular word . . . but it meant something entirely different to each side.
Best to toss in a few synonyms to the conversation, and often that clears things up.

You need a decent degree of mental acuity to pick that up on the run !! ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 03:39:37 PM
It's not only intellect but social acuity, grace. 

If you guys read what I wrote you will see I said "grace" also.  "Social graces" is a common phrase too. 

Everyone can stop pontificating now and get back to normal.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 03:55:01 PM


I have been in financial meetings where 15-20 minutes or more were devoted to a couple of guys/gals arguing over some concept/event/situation, when it turned out that they weren't even talking about the same thing. 


Speaking of finances ever heard the term "financial acumen"?   Similar word to acuity but used to describe knowledge in a certain field.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on February 27, 2018, 05:30:19 PM
...I will leave it open ended in the permanency front, it will be long term so long as I please which should be enough for girls to accept that they may not necessarily feel entitled to wanting to move to the UK as I may wish to stay there however long.

Apart from the atrocious way this rambling sentence is constructed, you keep harping on about how it's up to you how long you stay.  IT ISN'T - it's up to the immigration authorities of whichever country you wish to honour with your presence.  You may get a tourist visa without too much trouble, but getting a visa to live in one of the FSU countries, even for six months, is a whole different story.  As you have absolutely no valid reason to live there (just for starters, you don't have a job, a job offer, relatives or family), and you still can't make up your mind as to which type of scamming enterprise (teacher? photographer?) you wish to pursue, I would not rate your chances particularly highly.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2018, 05:55:26 PM
Apart from the atrocious way this rambling sentence is constructed, you keep harping on about how it's up to you how long you stay.  IT ISN'T - it's up to the immigration authorities of whichever country you wish to honour with your presence.  You may get a tourist visa without too much trouble, but getting a visa to live in one of the FSU countries, even for six months, is a whole different story.  As you have absolutely no valid reason to live there (just for starters, you don't have a job, a job offer, relatives or family), and you still can't make up your mind as to which type of scamming enterprise (teacher? photographer?) you wish to pursue, I would not rate your chances particularly highly.

As Mobe has informed us there are business visas that can be obtained for Russia for between 6-12 months, and how to go about this. End of the day I am not going to live there permanently just so long as the woman thinks I am there relatively long term so as to do away with any notion of a quick import into the UK. I would be looking for a woman that look genuinely into me, chemistry being present, etc. I see this as the best way forward. As Boethius has pointed out there are issues with this approach as to the terms the relationship is on. Essentially I am looking for a girl that is a bit easy in where she lives, the relationship, etc. A girl that takes a hard stance on how/where the relationship progresses like the last one is not likely to be a goer.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on February 27, 2018, 07:17:28 PM
Speaking of finances ever heard the term "financial acumen"? Similar word to acuity but used to describe knowledge in a certain field.
Both words come from Latin:

Originally from Acus = needle - i.e. a pointed object.

Hence the verb Acuere = to sharpen,
the noun Acumen = sharpness,
the noun Acuitas = sharpness, insight,
the adjective Acute = sharp, pointed.

Any word has a semantic field (a "rainbow"of contiguous, implicit meanings) that lends itself over time to new usages: e.g. Acute expanded to include angles, high musical notes, logic (penetrating), intelligence (smartness), etc. etc.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 08:19:09 PM
As Mobe has informed us there are business visas that can be obtained for Russia for between 6-12 months, and how to go about this. End of the day I am not going to live there permanently just so long as the woman thinks I am there relatively long term so as to do away with any notion of a quick import into the UK. I would be looking for a woman that look genuinely into me, chemistry being present, etc. I see this as the best way forward. As Boethius has pointed out there are issues with this approach as to the terms the relationship is on. Essentially I am looking for a girl that is a bit easy in where she lives, the relationship, etc. A girl that takes a hard stance on how/where the relationship progresses like the last one is not likely to be a goer.

You'd better look carefully into business visas and UK.  They may be for 12 months but you can only be in the country for 3 months at a time. It's not continuous. 

First you say you can't afford to leave your job for more than a week or 2, now you want to go live there long term?  Do you have the financial means to support yourself? 

Your plan won't work at all.  Either way you will eventually have to tell the girl you are going back to the UK.  If she doesn't want to leave her country then you wasted all that time.  You need to tell her up front your intentions.  She might be into you for a day just because you are a foreigner.  Then never call you again after.  That's how fickle some of them are.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
You'd better look carefully into business visas and UK.  They may be for 12 months but you can only be in the country for 3 months at a time. It's not continuous. 

First you say you can't afford to leave your job for more than a week or 2, now you want to go live there long term?  Do you have the financial means to support yourself? 

Your plan won't work at all.  Either way you will eventually have to tell the girl you are going back to the UK.  If she doesn't want to leave her country then you wasted all that time.  You need to tell her up front your intentions.  She might be into you for a day just because you are a foreigner.  Then never call you again after.  That's how fickle some of them are.

At the moment I cannot leave my job for more than a week or two but in a few months that will hopefully no longer be the case and I'll be in a position to live abroad a lengthy time without the need for a job.

To be honest the charade about living there long term is just going to be thrown out initially to see off any girls that are looking for an immigration mule. So it won't be a concrete, 'I'm living here forever' not even really long term but open ended so the girl will be unsure of how long, it could be a while for all she knows. So I'll be looking for a girl that seems genuinely into me/shows that interest in me. So hopefully once she gets to know me and is into me she will be open enough to moving to UK. As we all know getting into the UK is often not a straight forward matter so she will have to be committed to me in order to achieve this. The upside with the UK of course is that it is not a million miles from the European side of the FSU, so unless she is real attached to where she lives she will hopefully see it as a reasonable option. I'll just have to keep hitting on girls until I find one open enough to doing this I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 09:41:33 PM
You are way overcomplicating things.  Girls don't care why you are in their country.  If you pick a small town or city there will be alarm bells as to why you are there. Could be nefarious reasons.  If you are in Moscow, St Petersburg, Kiev..big cities with many foreigners they won't blink an eye.  Tons of foreigners go there as a tourist or for work.  You need to figure out why girls don't even like you in the first place.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2018, 10:03:00 PM
You are way overcomplicating things.  Girls don't care why you are in their country.  If you pick a small town or city there will be alarm bells as to why you are there. Could be nefarious reasons.  If you are in Moscow, St Petersburg, Kiev..big cities with many foreigners they won't blink an eye.  Tons of foreigners go there as a tourist or for work.  You need to figure out why girls don't even like you in the first place.

I'll make out I'm like the Godfather and have them all come flocking to me :D

You're probably right with the small town mentality its the kind of stupidity you get out of those places.

Big cities, like you say it will be easier to pass off, I can call the girls up easy enough.

In my country UK the criteria of the women are different - why does someone like Kyn who Mobe describes as bright and probably is at least to a reasonable degree have no luck here, easy, girls don't go for intelligence here, not in the main, its no fun and the girls want to have fun. They want to be at the centre of the party not in debates about this or that - hell you even mention the word 'debate' and you'll get them run faster then any Olympic athlete, lol. Having a decent job that pays well and is respected they of course want but they don't want a intellectual geek. They will laugh at such a guy, particularly if he mentions anything studious that is not seen as cool or trendy such as 'debates'.

I know at least to tone down or shut off any such talk when out and about in public, I know that word spreads and gets back to girls to give you a wide berth if you talk about intellectual claptrap. Even still, I am no party goer, those guys that are the centre of the party always get the pick of the best chicks in the UK. You can't just mimic that you have to be one of those types genetically. You have to understand the whole culture of the UK and how it has evolved over the past few decades from feminism of the 70s through to the career driven 80s and up to the current generation who believe they are 'entitled' to receive all they wish without working hard for it - they should only need to ask and it is given or whinging takes place. That will be Kyn's generation age group but will not likely be Kyn since he is from Singapore and so has been brought up with more work orientated studious cultural values.

End of the day in some societies they would worship anyone with intelligence and in others they will dismiss intelligence as a geek and not worthy. Other cultural values come out on top. I'm no real geek but I am not hitting those cultural values that women hold in UK society. That's about the size of it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 10:23:06 PM
I'll make out I'm like the Godfather and have them all come flocking to me :D


haha don't make me laugh man.  You have neither the financial means nor charisma to be anyone's Godfather!!  You are living in some fantasy world and not real life.
Look man it's pretty simple.  Go and ask a girl out for dinner.  Start talking and try to sound half intelligent.  See if she'll flirt with you.

All that other BS about if she wants to immigrate, find a dude with money blah blah...who da heck cares.  You can discuss that in the future. 

But step one, find a girl who actually wants to talk to you!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 27, 2018, 10:33:47 PM
But step one, find a girl who actually wants to talk to you!

I can do that no problem in the FSU, bringing up girls there is not a problem for me. I could bring up many girls in the FSU that would want to talk to me on Skype, it is not a problem me finding girls to do this. Its the problems further down the line that ARE a problem - they can scupper a relationship. One think I have learn't on this journey is that relationships scuppered further down the line are usually a result of mistakes unwittingly made at the beginning of the relationship or along the way. Now I know what they are I am not looking to make those same mistakes again.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 27, 2018, 10:37:31 PM
Forget Skype. What I mean is does the girl want to hang out with you for extended periods of time once you are there.  You are there for a limited time but to her it will be dating normally.  She may find it weird if you want to call her up every day.

Best to be upfront and say you don't intend to live in that city longer term.  Otherwise she'll pick up on the fact that you were lying, if you say you need to go back to the UK all of a sudden.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 27, 2018, 11:18:28 PM

Look man it's pretty simple.  Go and ask a girl out for dinner.  Start talking and try to sound half intelligent.  See if she'll flirt with you.

But step one, find a girl who actually wants to talk to you!

Simple  -- dinner --out of the question -if he did that she might think he was paying !
Half intelligent -- she will run a mile long before she ever thought of flirting !
A girl talking to him-- only long enough for the reality to dawn on her !

Funny how his whole concept of strategy is diametrically opposed to what  would be his best chance  ie   meet and marry her within a week ( better still if one day as maintaining his charade is unlikely !)    any longer and she will figure this guy out !  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on February 28, 2018, 12:12:15 AM
Can someone quote me as Sting23 is spouting bollox about the types of Visas UK folks can have and their limitations

IF a UK citizen has a work visa - the length of stay IS the visa length ...

Indeed, in the case of a biz visa - ( year) it's 90 /180 days
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on February 28, 2018, 08:57:33 AM

To be honest the charade about living there long term is just going to be
thrown out initially to see off any girls that are looking for an immigration
mule.

As long as you have this attitude you are going to struggle.
My advice is NOT to do that. Don't start out with a charade,
or a lie. What if instead you find a girl who is going for you
because she thinks that you are going to be there long term
and that she won't have to leave her friends, family, language
and culture?

Don't start off your quest with a lie.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on February 28, 2018, 09:06:20 AM
Wheaties packet?
Depends on the university! I am a graduate of two Russell Group universities, which comprises 24 members of world-class, research-intensive UK universities. Where are Trenchcoat's degrees from?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2018, 11:05:46 AM
Depends on the university! I am a graduate of two Russell Group universities, which comprises 24 members of world-class, research-intensive UK universities. Where are Trenchcoat's degrees from?

Do you know Russell? Lol. Doesn't mean a thing where you got degree from. Mine were from non-Russell, I've never cared for snobbery or status/standing. I look to my own individual abilities not interested in riding of the back of the name of an institution. I know in my field I can beat those from any of name status universities hands down. I'll'd welcome a showdown any day :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2018, 11:17:42 AM
As long as you have this attitude you are going to struggle.
My advice is NOT to do that. Don't start out with a charade,
or a lie. What if instead you find a girl who is going for you
because she thinks that you are going to be there long term
and that she won't have to leave her friends, family, language
and culture?

Don't start off your quest with a lie.

Your probably right Bill a lie tends to be detrimental to a relationship even if it is not unearthed I think. I see what you mean, I guess I am trying to not lie and not make out I'm completely permanent there but at the same time  put across the idea I am there long term but undecided on length. I guess the easiest way to say it to a girl is that I am unsure how long I want to be there or whether I want to be there permanently but that it will depend on how things go and how I get on and feel about being there. This will hopefully allow me enough wriggle room without lieing to her or leading her on but at the same time throw doubt in her mind of me as a definite path to the west.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on February 28, 2018, 03:02:33 PM
This will hopefully allow me enough wriggle room without lieing to her or leading her on but at the same time throw doubt in her mind of me as a definite path to the west.
Surely any girl open to dating a foreigner,  genuine or not will expect to return to her husbands home country. One will want to for love, the other for unscrupulous reasons... How will you tell the difference?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 28, 2018, 03:22:25 PM
Surely any girl open to dating a foreigner,  genuine or not will expect to return to her husbands home country. One will want to for love, the other for unscrupulous reasons... How will you tell the difference?

At some point she will want to once in a relationship a fair while with a guy. The more unscrupulous I would judge will act similar to a scammer in that they will not want to wait too long and increasingly give themselves away. Additionally a girl who is genuine will likely be easier to determine her love is genuine over a longer period of time with her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on February 28, 2018, 03:45:31 PM
Surely any girl open to dating a foreigner,  genuine or not will expect to return to her husbands home country. One will want to for love, the other for unscrupulous reasons... How will you tell the difference?

Davo -- your not taking into account the extraordinary ability of Trenchcoat to understand ,interpret and read any situation.No mere woman is going to put one over on him ! :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 28, 2018, 04:03:36 PM
Again, Trench is pondering hypothetical situations before anything is even happening.  Must be one hell of a drug you are taking!

He's trying to project an appearance of being in a FSU country for long term in the hopes of attracting a woman who won't use him as a visa mule.  Can't even be honest with himself.

Trench if a woman asks you what you are doing in her country will you lie?  And say you are looking for a wife/ partner.  Or create some crazy story.  You aren't there for work.  You certainly aren't there for tourism if you stay more than a month.  People have normal lives and work.  What exactly are you gonna do from 9-5pm when everyone is busy.  Hang out at a coffee shop all day?

Dude's thinking about crossing home plate when he hasn't even hit the ball yet.

The reality is Trench probably won't even go to Russia or Ukraine for more than a week.  I'll bet money that I'll be back there before he is.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on February 28, 2018, 10:49:11 PM
TC, as i've stated before, going in with a mentality of sorting through the scammers, or the insincere,or unscrupulous is starting out on the wrong foot altogether.
It runs off any sincere woman long before you get to the coffee shop stage.

Just date women.period.
See where it leads.
Don't look for poor underlying reasons why they will date you


Approach it from a positive side.
I'm not saying be naive, or foolish.
Just date and see if you actually like her as a person and vice versa, then maybe some romance or even love is possible.
Thats all long before any thoughts of marriage , relocation  etc.

You have this mentality of putting not only the cart in front of the horse,
 but sweating in detail the schematics of a barn you don't need yet, the amount of pastures required, who it is best to purchase hay from, which vet you'll use once the mare is bred, and if the foal will be a roan,buckskin, or bay.

Relax.

Most domestic marriages end in divorce.So do most cross cultural ones.
While no one enters it planning on divorce, its a harsh reality and normal risk that has to be accepted.
If you cant get past this simple fact and be ok with the concept, you just arnt ready to marry ,and that's ok too.

I'm not piling on, I just want you to think about how you approach what should be a simple boy meets girl, in an enjoyable atmosphere.you should have fun, so should she.

 If you'd just do so, things would be much much easier for you.

I've got nothing special going for me, and if single ,could easily  date any number of sincere fsu  women just from a natural relaxed approach to dating them ,without any expectations or presumptions of guilt or innocence of motives.
I know this for certain,from previous experience ,and that element has not changed and never does, locally or internationally.

You really don't need to do anything except relax man.really.
No special methods, no distortions of truth to test them, no living there long term.
(You live close enough to visit monthly )
Just date.
Yes it may take dating more than 3 or 4 that did not work out previously.
And frankly with your preconceived notions and fretting over poor motivations, it will take dating far more than usual than  if you'd just lighten up on that type of thinking.

I know you don't out right tell the women these thoughts, but a million things give it away right off the bat.
I'll tell you for the 486th time, that one fatal flaw ruins your chances with sincere women faster than anything else you can think of.

Desperation would rank up there as a chick repellent as well, but being of  a suspicious mind frame , or dwelling on monetary * what ifs* in an unknown future, is akin to you just telling them right off that you dont like them at all,and seeing how the date progresses.

Try to get back to a simple ,I'll just meet this a woman  and see if I like her!   Her sense  of humor, her smile,, what she finds interesting.
Without any thoughts past dinner.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 28, 2018, 10:57:01 PM
Trench, one other important thing that you missed.  Have you ever lived with a woman before? 

If you have some strange or idiosyncratic behaviour she's gonna be bolting out the door real fast.  In social situations do people want to talk to you or go away from you.  Be honest with yourself.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on February 28, 2018, 11:12:15 PM
Jumper I keep trying to tell him that but he won't listen.  Trench you need to learn how to have fun and be more easygoing.  Jumper is right the vibe you give off is crucial. 

I will tell you firsthand that many women in Russia don't care if you are a foreigner. They aren't planning to leave the country.  Telling them you are from the UK or America means nothing.  Trust me I know enough expats in Moscow.  And the guys there tend to be young and aren't looking for exclusive relationships.  They wanna have fun if ya know what I mean.

Many of my Russian friends have traveled abroad to Europe, America.  What makes you think they couldn't easily find a guy there on a vacation. 
And they tell me the things guys online tell them.  To fly them to their country, marriage proposals, crazy stuff.  If you are a half attractive Russian girl you won't have problems finding a suitor overseas. 

So you gotta ask yourself what exactly do you offer to them?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 01, 2018, 03:32:45 PM
Can someone quote me as Sting23 is spouting bollox about the types of Visas UK folks can have and their limitations

IF a UK citizen has a work visa - the length of stay IS the visa length ...

Indeed, in the case of a biz visa - ( year) it's 90 /180 days


Not sure where the bollox is.  He did say 3 months at a time, so merely missed the 180 days. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 01, 2018, 03:33:58 PM
Do you know Russell? Lol. Doesn't mean a thing where you got degree from. Mine were from non-Russell, I've never cared for snobbery or status/standing.


It does matter to employers, at least, initially.




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 02, 2018, 02:56:22 AM

Not sure where the bollox is.  He did say 3 months at a time, so merely missed the 180 days.

))

Thanks for quoting me !

Trench has been referring to working, there
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 03, 2018, 05:15:14 PM
msmob -spouting bollox about Russian visas? when's the last time you got a visa man.  Trench ain't going there for work.  That would involve getting a letter of invitation from a company willing to hire him.  I don't see that happening as he has no English teaching qualifications and I doubt he can go as a highly skilled worker.

Business visas are either 90 days or 1 year.  Trench ain't going for 1 year so 90 days are his only option.

Too bad he ain't American.  They can get a 3 year tourist visa continuous.  Only requirement is to leave Russia every 6 months.  You can go for 1 day and come back the next.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 03, 2018, 05:18:59 PM
That's why I put msmob  on ignore.  The guy never listens and is very irritating.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 03, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
I believe moby’s visa expired recently, he’s on his days “out”. In any event, very recently.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 04, 2018, 02:33:19 AM
msmob -spouting bollox about Russian visas? when's the last time you got a visa man.

A year ago - time for a new one

  Trench ain't going there for work.  That would involve getting a letter of invitation from a company willing to hire him.  I don't see that happening as he has no English teaching qualifications and I doubt he can go as a highly skilled worker.

Trench has indeed said he wanted to try to work there- get a work visa - one pays £750 and voila - the invite

Business visas are either 90 days or 1 year.  Trench ain't going for 1 year so 90 days are his only option.


Incorrect - I think I'd know having had them over 18 years - we have single, double and multiple entry Business visas ..the M/E ones are valid for a year - one can stay 90/180 days - every six month period

Hence my 'bollox'  - being someone who WOULD know what he's talking about - having had SO many ;)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 04:37:25 AM

Trench has indeed said he wanted to try to work there- get a work visa - one pays £750 and voila - the invite

Incorrect - I think I'd know having had them over 18 years - we have single, double and multiple entry Business visas ..the M/E ones are valid for a year - one can stay 90/180 days - every six month period


you and I both know Trench ain't going to Russia to work.   I taught at a Russian state school.  The days of just being a native speaker and showing up to teach are long gone.  Knowing how atrocious he writes here I highly doubt he could land any teaching job freelance or otherwise. 

As for business visas I am correct.  Duration is 90 days or 1 year. I didn't mention the 90/180 for the 1 yr because Trench won't even be there that long.  If it's a work visa it can be continuous.  I've gotten both work and business visas so I know.  You just misread as usual and think you know everything.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 04, 2018, 06:02:13 AM
you and I both know Trench ain't going to Russia to work.   I taught at a Russian state school.  The days of just being a native speaker and showing up to teach are long gone.  Knowing how atrocious he writes here I highly doubt he could land any teaching job freelance or otherwise. 

Please do not reply without reading, attentively ! ;)

Once more...Trench has posted about staying a long time - working ..

It is QUITE possible to get a work visa invitation for £750 - one can then stay for the duration of the visa - I haven't done it - but I have heard of those who do


As for business visas I am correct.  Duration is 90 days or 1 year. I didn't mention the 90/180 for the 1 yr because Trench won't even be there that long.  If it's a work visa it can be continuous.  I've gotten both work and business visas so I know.  You just misread as usual and think you know everything.


Incorrect - You really need to follow your own advice re reading. You must be glossing over Trench's meanderings

As you do not believe what I have told you - I'll refer you to this link from a respected UK VISA facilitator

http://realrussia.co.uk/Visas/Russian/Business (http://realrussia.co.uk/Visas/Russian/Business)

"Russian business visas allow for a single, double or multiple visits and may be valid from one to twelve months."

Please bear in mind I KNOW because I've been doing this for nearly as many years as you have been on the face of the earth  :cluebat:


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 06:45:28 AM


It is QUITE possible to get a work visa invitation for £750 - one can then stay for the duration of the visa - I haven't done it - but I have heard of those who do



Incorrect -

As you do not believe what I have told you - I'll refer you to this link from a respected UK VISA facilitator

http://realrussia.co.uk/Visas/Russian/Business (http://realrussia.co.uk/Visas/Russian/Business)

"Russian business visas allow for a single, double or multiple visits and may be valid from one to twelve months."

Please bear in mind I KNOW because I've been doing this for nearly as many years as you have been on the face of the earth  :cluebat:

Dude just shut up man you are getting annoying.  I don't know why it doesn't block your posts if you quote but in any case i'm just gonna ignore them.  Trench talks about starting a photography business to get girls. You believe him when he says he's gonna work in Russia? haha.
UK visas could be different from Canadian ones. 

Have you gotten a work visa to Russia?  I have.  What you are suggesting is actually illegal. 

How old exactly are you?  You haven't a damn clue how old I am.  "YOU KNOW EVERYTHING" HUH.. just shut up.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 06:47:01 AM
...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 06:57:06 AM
Can someone quote me as Sting23 is spouting bollox about the types of Visas UK folks can have and their limitations

IF a UK citizen has a work visa - the length of stay IS the visa length ...

Indeed, in the case of a biz visa - ( year) it's 90 /180 days

You got such a big ego that you purposely asked someone to quote you so that I could see your post even though I have you on ignore. Get a life man.  Humble yourself and admit that you are wrong Mr. "I KNOW IT ALL". 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 04, 2018, 07:49:48 AM

UK visas could be different from Canadian ones. 

sighs.. the penny drops ... Was that your 'apology' ?

Have you gotten a work visa to Russia?  I have.  What you are suggesting is actually illegal. 

Once again, you demonstrate your laziness - re reading ... 

"It is QUITE possible to get a work visa invitation for £750 - one can then stay for the duration of the visa - I haven't done it - but I have heard of those who do "




You got such a big ego that you purposely asked someone to quote you so that I could see your post even though I have you on ignore.


Clearly, it IS too hard for you to admit you posted nonsense re UK folk and their options re RU Visas.. and *I* should shut up ? ;)




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on March 04, 2018, 09:04:20 AM
It is QUITE possible to get a work visa invitation for £750 - one can then stay for the duration of the visa - I haven't done it - but I have heard of those who do

http://realrussia.co.uk/Visas/Russian/Business (http://realrussia.co.uk/Visas/Russian/Business)

"Russian business visas allow for a single, double or multiple visits and may be valid from one to twelve months."



What you're suggesting of staying for the duration of the visa is illegal to what website you provided says. "All nationalities are restricted to a maximum of 90 days in a 180 day period when using a multiple entry visa." 6 to 12 months visas  are the only multiple entry visas UK citizens can buy. Can't stay the duration of the visa when on can stay only 90 day in a 180 day period. I'd trust the website over people you heard it from. They may have been drunk or feeding you BS so you can try it and get in trouble.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 04:33:37 PM
sighs.. the penny drops ... Was that your 'apology' ?

Once again, you demonstrate your laziness - re reading ... 

"It is QUITE possible to get a work visa invitation for £750 - one can then stay for the duration of the visa - I haven't done it - but I have heard of those who do "


Clearly, it IS too hard for you to admit you posted nonsense re UK folk and their options re RU Visas.. and *I* should shut up ? ;)

Dude, do you not GET the HINT. I don't wanna talk to you. I put you on ignore.  Is your skull so dense that you CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT.

I just checked UK vs Can.  Save for the fact UK ppl can get a 6 month multiple entry everything else is EXACTLY the same.  3 month or 1 year.
What nonsense you daft sucka?  What I wrote is correct, you are wrong.

If Trench wants to get a visa he's a big boy and can do it himself. 

You don't get it, I don't wanna read what you wrote.  Stop telling other people to quote your posts.  You wasting my time again, just stop.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 04:43:10 PM
sighs.. the penny drops ... Was that your 'apology' ?
 "[/b]


BTW, you owe me an apology.  You were wrong about the visas.  I'm waiting. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 04, 2018, 05:04:34 PM
Dude, do you not GET the HINT. I don't wanna talk to you. I put you on ignore.  Is your skull so dense that you CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT.

Yet here you are, responding to him.

You can't control what someone else posts, only your responses.  I suggest removing moby from ignore in your settings, then again adding him to your ignore list.  It may not work, but it might.  If it doesn't, no one is compelling you to read moby's posts, let alone respond to them.
Quote
I just checked UK vs Can.  Save for the fact UK ppl can get a 6 month multiple entry everything else is EXACTLY the same.  3 month or 1 year.
What nonsense you daft sucka?  What I wrote is correct, you are wrong.

I don't think what moby is saying contradicts what you stated.  There are two types of visas here, a business visa, and a work visa.  On a one year business visa, you can be in Russia for up to 90 days, then out 90 days, and then you can come back for 90 days (That is the 90/180 rule referred to).  Some people have gotten around this by obtaining a 90 business day visa, leaving the country, and applying for another 90 day visa within the 180 day time frame. 


To obtain a business visa, you don't need to find someone in Russia to sponsor it, visa processing companies will do that for you.

If you apply for a work visa in Russia, you can remain in Russia continuously for 1 to 3 years.  That visa requires the Russian employer to provide information.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
I put him on ignore for that express purpose, to not read it....maybe the forum has a glitch where if you quote someone's post you see it regardless.

And what does it say about him that he deliberately asked someone to quote his post so that I could see it, knowing full well I have him on ignore. 

In any case people looking for visa advice certainly shouldn't be coming here.  They need to go to a visa agency or Russian consulate in their country.

There's a reason moby has been banned here several times.  He acts like a petulant child.  He needs to just chill out.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 04, 2018, 05:22:12 PM
His banning was never based on what he posted.  Furthermore, the administrators have restored his ability to post, so how is his previously (reversed) banning relevant today?

Even if moby is quoted, you have the ability to ignore his posts by not responding.

I don't think his being quoted has any effect on you seeing his posts if he is on your ignore list.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 05:28:31 PM
moby never has applied for and gotten a work visa in Russia.  I have just last year.  I know the process.  What he is suggesting is actually illegal, there are companies who offer "work visas" not tied to one specific company.  So you can basically freelance.  But you need to pay much more.

And there's tons of expats working in Moscow like that. Americans who have a 3 year tourist visa working full time, I knew several.  Guys doing visa runs every 3 months like you said.  I reckon many teachers in Moscow aren't there "legally".

Remember this is Russia.  Money talks, if you pay you can get what you want. 

moby knows nothing about this.  He's never worked in Russia.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 05:33:08 PM
His banning was never based on what he posted.  Furthermore, the administrators have restored his ability to post, so how is his previously (reversed) banning relevant today?

Even if moby is quoted, you have the ability to ignore his posts by not responding.

I don't think his being quoted has any effect on you seeing his posts if he is on your ignore list.

No it's a glitch.  If he just posts normally with no quotes I see nothing.  If however someone else quotes his post and replies, then I can read the post as a quote.

I don't know what he was banned for, he just seems to cause trouble.

If someone said you were "spouting nonsense"  you would reply too.  Everything I said about visas was correct.  He just can't read properly.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 04, 2018, 05:34:52 PM
He wasn't referring to a work visa, though.   He was referring to a business visa, hence, the reference to the 90/180 rule, and the fact you don't need to find a Russian employer to sponsor you.

Quote
If someone said you were "spouting nonsense"  you would reply too.  Everything I said about visas was correct.  He just can't read properly.

1.  I don't have anyone on ignore.
2.  Depends on who it is.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 04, 2018, 05:36:01 PM
Quote
No it's a glitch.  If he just posts normally with no quotes I see nothing.  If however someone else quotes his post and replies, then I can read the post as a quote.

That's not a glitch.  The reason you can see it is because it's been quoted by a poster you don't have on ignore.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 05:41:08 PM
True you don't need a sponsor for a business visa but you still need a letter of invitation from a company.  And just getting it through a visa agency doesn't guarantee you get it.  I have been denied and approved for visas via agencies.

So it's not just a matter of applying but also the host company's reputation.  In any case people applying for visas aren't coming here looking for advice.  So why moby is all up in arms I have no clue.  He makes a mountain out of every molehill if you look at how he replies to everyone's posts.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
this was about Trench and if he would ever get a long term visa for Russia.  It's a moot point as I doubt Trench would even follow through.  It takes him a year to do a 1 week trip to Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 04, 2018, 05:45:08 PM
True you don't need a sponsor for a business visa but you still need a letter of invitation from a company.  And just getting it through a visa agency doesn't guarantee you get it.  I was denied a business visa when I applied through an agency.  No reason given.  Yet I was able to get a work visa later on through a sponsor.

So it's not just a matter of applying but also the host company's reputation.  In any case people applying for visas aren't coming here looking for advice.  So why moby is all up in arms I have no clue.  He makes a mountain out of every molehill if you look at how he replies to everyone's posts.


Actually, people often ask for visa advice here, and the company to work through is often cited as a critical factor.


As for Trench, he made two trips to Ukraine in less than a year, so that is a bit unfair.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 04, 2018, 06:02:25 PM
...End of the day I am not going to live there permanently just so long as the woman thinks I am there relatively long term so as to do away with any notion of a quick import into the UK.

Like I wrote above - scammer.  :puke: You're as bad as the women you criticise.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 04, 2018, 06:26:41 PM
...girls don't go for intelligence here, not in the main, its no fun and the girls want to have fun. They want to be at the centre of the party not in debates about this or that - hell you even mention the word 'debate' and you'll get them run faster then any Olympic athlete, lol.

...

I know at least to tone down or shut off any such talk when out and about in public, I know that word spreads and gets back to girls to give you a wide berth if you talk about intellectual claptrap. Even still, I am no party goer, those guys that are the centre of the party always get the pick of the best chicks in the UK.

By your own admission you are nearly 40.  Why are you back chasing "girls who want to have fun?"  You make it sound like your original posts, where you want teenagers or those in their early twenties who ONLY want fun, rather than women closer to your own age (early 30s, maybe late 20s at a stretch) that you have been talking about more recently.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 04, 2018, 11:48:34 PM
By your own admission you are nearly 40.  Why are you back chasing "girls who want to have fun?"  You make it sound like your original posts, where you want teenagers or those in their early twenties who ONLY want fun, rather than women closer to your own age (early 30s, maybe late 20s at a stretch) that you have been talking about more recently.

Trench wants a docile, compliant woman who won't leave him for another man once she goes to his country.  In that case he might as well get a dog!!

The blunt truth is he's probably not attractive enough physically, emotionally, intellectually for most women.  He always bemoans his local UK woman, can't get a date there.  And I think the ones he met in Ukraine used him to buy them things. 

He won't take action to do a trip, crying about the cold weather.  Won't message girls or try to Skype them.  Yet has the time to post rambling stuff that could fill a book.

He couldn't be bothered to learn the local cultures of FSU countires nor their languages.

At some point he needs to give it up or take a cold hard look in the mirror and change things if he's to have any success. 



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 12:36:17 AM

What you're suggesting ..

No.. I suggested no such thing ..I am telling you - READ - before posting daft ..

You are a US chap - no recent visits to Russia - telling a Brit - who knows Russia (FAR better than you )  and is not long back - about UK visas for Russia  ? :)

Dude, do you not GET the HINT. I don't wanna talk to you.

Sting23- I am not talking to you - I'm pointing out that your info was/ is duff 

To others:

Now, who do you think would know, better?

Hardly a Canadian 'lecturing' a frequent RU Visa holder - sourced as a UK citizen... 

Sting23: I'd never put you on ignore - lest you keep on giving out seriously daft info re travelling to the FSU


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 12:41:34 AM


The blunt truth is he's probably not attractive enough physically

???  and that isn't being petulant ?

I have no idea whether Trench is physically 'attractive' or not - and I'm sure you've not seen how he looks.

Let's keep the harsh comments to some the stuff he writes - ( with reasoned ripostes)  rather than how he MIGHT look, eh ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 01:49:25 AM
No.. I suggested no such thing ..I am telling you - READ - before posting daft ..

You are a US chap - no recent visits to Russia - telling a Brit - who knows Russia (FAR better than you )  and is not long back - about UK visas for Russia  ? :)

Sting23- I am not talking to you - I'm pointing out that your info was/ is duff 

To others:

Now, who do you think would know, better?

Hardly a Canadian 'lecturing' a frequent RU Visa holder - sourced as a UK citizen... 

Sting23: I'd never put you on ignore - lest you keep on giving out seriously daft info re travelling to the FSU

moby your problem is you think you know everything, "TELLING" others..haha.  Get a life dude.  My info was correct.  If you don't believe it that's your problem. 

You ain't the only one who's gotten a Russian visa before.  And you have never worked in Russia on a proper work visa.  I have.  I've done interviews with many schools and gone through the process, from letter of invitation to application.  Pretty sure I know more about getting a job in Russia than you do.  Besides I thought you were from Ireland not the UK.  Or are they one and the same now?   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 02:02:01 AM
???  and that isn't being petulant ?

I have no idea whether Trench is physically 'attractive' or not - and I'm sure you've not seen how he looks.

Let's keep the harsh comments to some the stuff he writes - ( with reasoned ripostes)  rather than how he MIGHT look, eh ?

Look up the meaning of "petulant"... as usual you got it wrong. I was being brutally honest. 

Some members here have alerted me to Trench's identity on certain public websites.  And the info corresponded to the city that Trench says he is from.  So if that's true then I have seen his photos.  I will say it was an unsolicted message from a member.  I don't care who Trench is. 

The physical appearance isn't even the biggest factor.  Are you an intelligent, well-spoken and a fun guy to be around?  If yes then you'll have plenty of girls interested in talking to you even if you don't look so hot. 

I've never heard Trench talk before but going by what he writes I can see how people get turned off by it.  Certainly most people here do.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 02:19:33 AM
So Trench have you bought your plane ticket and booked a hotel for St Petersburg or Moscow yet?  It's March now, spring time will be here in Russia in a month or 2. 

And have you messaged any new girls?  My feeling is probably not on all fronts.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 02:28:12 AM
Some members here have alerted me to Trench's identity on certain public websites.  And the info corresponded to the city that Trench says he is from.  So if that's true then I have seen his photos.  I will say it was an unsolicted message from a member.

Trench has never posted which city he is from, just that it’s in the southern UK.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 02:30:18 AM
moby your problem is you think you know everything, "TELLING" others..haha.  Get a life dude.  My info was correct.  If you don't believe it that's your problem. 

You ain't the only one who's gotten a Russian visa before.  And you have never worked in Russia on a proper work visa.  I have.  I've done interviews with many schools and gone through the process, from letter of invitation to application.  Pretty sure I know more about getting a job in Russia than you do.  Besides I thought you were from Ireland not the UK.  Or are they one and the same now?

You were both correct, just posting about different information.

moby is from Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 03:05:41 AM
Trench has never posted which city he is from, just that it’s in the southern UK.

Right, I rechecked. It was another poster who alluded to his location.  And even posted a photo of Trench on this thread!  That photo is still up by the way, don't know if mods want to take it down or if Trench doesn't mind.  Now how that poster figured out who Trench is I have no idea.  But he gave me enough info that gave it credibility and certainty that it's him.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 03:20:05 AM
My info was correct.  If you don't believe it that's your problem. 


NO - your info was duff - even concerning a work Visa

You ain't the only one who's gotten a Russian visa before.  And you have never worked in Russia on a proper work visa.  I have. 

As a UK citizen applicant ?

Thank you...

I've done interviews with many schools and gone through the process, from letter of invitation to application.  Pretty sure I know more about getting a job in Russia than you do.  Besides I thought you were from Ireland not the UK.  Or are they one and the same now?

Sadly, for your misinfo - I was at an advanced stage of applying for a work visa for Russia.  I didn't submit it as our plans changed

You'll note Boethius is FAR more attentive than you

I have dual nationality - Irish and British - most - but not all - of my applications have been as British - there was a time when it WAS possible to have concurrent Visas - so as one expired - I could re-enter on another passport

'Dude' listen and learn - rather than posting daft
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 03:36:06 AM

NO - your info was duff - even concerning a work Visa

As a UK citizen applicant ?


You'll note Boethius is FAR more attentive than you

I have dual nationality - Irish and British - most - but not all - of my applications have been as British - there was a time when it WAS possible to have concurrent Visas - so as one expired - I could re-enter on another passport

'Dude' listen and learn - rather than posting daft

Show me exactly what I wrote regarding work visas that was wrong.  You won't find it.

As Canada is a Commonwealth country it has basically the same visas issued from Russia as for the UK.  Typical is a 1 year work visa.  I interviewed directly with several UK expats who ran their own English school in Moscow.  They know what type of visa to get for their teachers whether they are from UK, Canada, USA, Australia...

now why would I waste my time paying attention to you, all you post is "duff and daft"..funny British words I might add.  Try saying that to  even a native English speaker outside the UK and you'll get blank stares.  Most internet vernacular is in American English not British. 

I can't keep track if you're from Ireland, Northern Ireland, UK, Isle of Man or what not.  And frankly I don't care where you're from.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 04:02:45 AM
Show me exactly what I wrote regarding work visas that was wrong.  You won't find it.

You're comparing apples and oranges.  You were referring to work visas, moby was referring to business visas.  You understand the requirements for these visas are different?
Quote
now why would I waste my time paying attention to you, all you post is "duff and daft"..funny British words I might add.  Try saying that to  even a native English speaker outside the UK and you'll get blank stares.  Most internet vernacular is in American English not British. 

But moby's not American. :)   I have no problem understanding most (not all, but most) UK slang.  Daft, BTW, is commonly used in most of Canada.  You should know that as an English teacher. 

Incidentally, almost everyone here, including Americans, uses "flat" rather than "apartment", which definitely is British, not American.

Quote
I can't keep track if you're from Ireland, Northern Ireland, UK, Isle of Man or what not.  And frankly I don't care where you're from.

Then why did you bring it up?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 04:08:55 AM

You're comparing apples and oranges.  You were referring to work visas, moby was referring to business visas.  You understand the requirements for these visas are different?
But moby's not American. :)   I have no problem understanding most (not all, but most) UK slang.  Daft, incidentally, is commonly used in most of Canada.  You should know that as an English teacher. 

Then why did you bring it up?

No I was referring to business visas for the 90 day and 1 year.  I lived in the UK for a time.  Could barely figure out their slang.  Like "fag" for cigarette.  How did that happen.

Maybe daft is used in your part of Canada but not mine.  No one says that word here and you'll get blank stares.  As for teaching English, slang is the last thing to cover.  You ever heard a Russian say " are you daft mate?"...I haven't. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 04:22:21 AM

No I was referring to business visas for the 90 day and 1 year.  I lived in the UK for a time.  Could barely figure out their slang.  Like "fag" for cigarette.  How did that happen.

If you were referring to business visas, then moby's information was correct.  I looked it up to confirm. 

"Fag" as slang for cigarette dates back to the 19th century, predating its derogatory use for homosexual men.  "Faggot" was used in England as a derogatory term referring to women, and that may be how the term entered the vernacular as a derogatory term for homosexual males.

Quote
Maybe daft is used in your part of Canada but not mine.  No one says that word here and you'll get blank stares.  As for teaching English, slang is the last thing to cover.  You ever heard a Russian say " are you daft mate?"...I haven't.


I'd get blank stares if I used words such as "hegemony" or "saiety" (the latter is an example from a couple days ago).  All that demonstrates is that the average person has a poor vocabulary.

It doesn't matter whether or not you are teaching the term to your students.  As a good teacher, you should be familiar with idiom in what presumably is your native tongue.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 04:41:29 AM
If you were referring to business visas, then moby's information was correct.  I looked it up to confirm. 

"Fag" as slang for cigarette dates back to the 19th century, predating its derogatory use for homosexual men.  "Faggot" was used in England as a derogatory term referring to women, and that may be how the term entered the vernacular as a derogatory term for homosexual males.


I'd get blank stares if I used words such as "hegemony" or "saiety" (the latter is an example from a couple days ago).  All that demonstrates is that the average person has a poor vocabulary.

It doesn't matter whether or not you are teaching the term to your students.  As a good teacher, you should be familiar with idiom in what presumably is your native tongue.

My info regarding visas didn't contradict his, I just didnt' say the 90/180 day for the 1 yr. 

I am guessing you've never taught English to 5 or 6 years olds who have never spoken a word of English.  Nor to corporate clients who need concise language to communicate, not idioms. 

If I rattle off some sports idioms you probably have no clue what I'm talking about. "keep it 100, aight. that was sick like the flu, he got posterized, brotha got some street in 'em., drop da ball" ... and you gotta say it with that authentic sports broadcaster voice.  Try listening to some hip-hop music and see if you understand.  I am guessing not.

Idioms are about the last thing a language learner needs.  They need fundamentals.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 04:47:34 AM
Anyways this is Trench's thread and I don't wanna derail it.  I'm at least trying to give the guy advice on how to get a date in Russia.  I don't hear anyone else doing much.  Moby's so concerned about visa details for UK citizens.  The only UK people who post regularly are him and Trench.  Most of the other guys are from North America, Europe or Australia and NZ.

So he's getting all worked up over nothing.  He should spend more time helping out his fellow comrade Trench.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 04:55:29 AM
My info regarding visas didn't contradict his, I just didnt' say the 90/180 day for the 1 yr. 

Which I addressed in the initial post.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22008.msg478347#msg478347 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22008.msg478347#msg478347)

But from there, the discussion morphed.
Quote
I am guessing you've never taught English to 5 or 6 years olds who have never spoken a word of English.  Nor to corporate clients who need concise language to communicate, not idioms. 

No, but I did teach 3 children how to speak.

I communicate with corporate clients daily, both verbally and in writing.  My communications with them are very concise, as they have to be, both for understanding/clarity and to ensure I don't get sued.  But that doesn't mean I can't understand idioms.
Quote
If I rattle off some sports idioms you probably have no clue what I'm talking about. "keep it 100, aight. that was sick like the flu, he got posterized, brotha got some street in 'em., drop da ball" ... and you gotta say it with that authentic sports broadcaster voice.  Try listening to some hip-hop music and see if you understand.  I am guessing not.

I  have 3 children, so I suspect I would understand.  I have been subjected to more hip hop/rap music (which I generally do not enjoy) than I wish.

Quote
Idioms are about the last thing a language learner needs.  They need fundamentals.

That wasn't my point.  Read what I wrote.  You, as the teacher, should know these things, whether or not your students need them or are going to learn them.

Anyways this is Trench's thread and I don't wanna derail it.  I'm at least trying to give the guy advice on how to get a date in Russia.  I don't hear anyone else doing much.  Moby's so concerned about visa details for UK citizens.  The only UK people who post regularly are him and Trench.  Most of the other guys are from North America, Europe or Australia and NZ.

So he's getting all worked up over nothing.  He should spend more time helping out his fellow comrade Trench.

This is a thread split off from Trench derailing other threads.  So, it doesn't matter.

Trench has met UW, two that we know of, and went on vacation with one of them, so I don't think he requires advice on how to get a date.  I don't wish him ill will, but I really don't see him developing a long term successful relationship with a FSUW because of his mentality.

There are a significant number of UK lurkers here.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 05:13:23 AM
No, a teacher doesn't need to know idioms to be a good teacher.  When's the last time you said "it's raining cats and dogs".   Not sure why you even brought it up.  Slang and idioms are very localized and specific.  They can be for sports, music, theatre, finance...anything.

Cryptocurrency and Bitcoin is a hot topic these days.  Block chain, private key, digital wallet are all part of the lexicon.  What language learners need is proper definitions for terminology.  Not random words that have no intrinsic meaning.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 05:14:18 AM
Show me exactly what I wrote regarding work visas that was wrong.  You won't find it.


You spoke of 'illegality' re using an agent to get a work permit ? So, is it 'illegal' to get an invite from a  firm in Russia - that you've never heard of to get a Biz visa - or the same re a hotel voucher - for a RU tourist visa ?


As Canada is a Commonwealth country it has basically the same visas issued from Russia as for the UK.


No - that is not the criteria Russia sets to decide VISAs - the UK / IRL are ( currently)  EU member states  - Ireland is not a Commonwealth member - this is 101 stuff - WHY do you continually post SO daft ?


now why would I waste my time paying attention to you, all you post is "duff and daft"..funny British words I might add.  Try saying that to  even a native English speaker outside the UK and you'll get blank stares.  Most internet vernacular is in American English not British. 


I make NO apology for using English - as spoken by a Brit / Irish person in everyday life.  Your 'English' is a 'dumbed down' version used by immigrants who spelt English phonetically ;)

 
I can't keep track if you're from Ireland, Northern Ireland, UK, Isle of Man or what not.  And frankly I don't care where you're from.

This is just another example of your inattentiveness and don't worry - my 'feelinz' aren't hurt by your 'disinterest' ... 

It's already clear that you have no wish to learn, your ability to post misleading info and need to 'hit back' when your (incorrect) 'info' is busted / questioned ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 05:16:31 AM
He wasn’t incorrect in his initial information, he just missed the 180 days.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 05:21:14 AM
No, a teacher doesn't need to know idioms to be a good teacher.  When's the last time you said "it's raining cats and dogs".   Not sure why you even brought it up.  Slang and idioms are very localized and specific.  They can be for sports, music, theatre, finance...anything.

Cryptocurrency and Bitcoin is a hot topic these days.  Block chain, private key, digital wallet are all part of the lexicon.  What language learners need is proper definitions for terminology.  Not random words that have no intrinsic meaning.

I disagree, and I say this as someone who lives with a non native speaker, to whom I had to explain idioms he heard. Some are similar in Russian or Ukrainian, but not identical. Those he usually understood innately.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 05:24:05 AM
No, a teacher doesn't need to know idioms to be a good teacher.

Disagree - I get asked the origin of UK English expressions - by Russians hoping to understand everday idioms that we use

  When's the last time you said "it's raining cats and dogs". 

Less than 24 hours ago - I realise the question was not addressed to me - but, you know - I'm just pointing out you're - once more - swinging wildly - rather than accepting this is another argument you're losing

Not sure why you even brought it up.  Slang and idioms are very localized and specific.  They can be for sports, music, theatre, finance...anything.

Raining cats and dogs is used in EVERYDAY UK / Irish  English - esp. with our climate ;) The Russians have an equivalent

Cryptocurrency and Bitcoin is a hot topic these days.  Block chain, private key, digital wallet are all part of the lexicon.  What language learners need is proper definitions for terminology.  Not random words that have no intrinsic meaning.

What students need is a person skilled enough and willing to offer the alternatives used in UK / US (?) English ..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 05:27:16 AM
He wasn’t incorrect in his initial information, he just missed the 180 days.

He has also spoken of Visa lengths that don't exist for us in Britain / Ireland and inferred the 'illegality' of using agents .... now compounded with his 'reasoning' by the Russians for the differences - which were bollox, too !

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 05:34:13 AM
Look up the meaning of "petulant"... as usual you got it wrong. I was being brutally honest. 

Thanks, I'm well aware of the meaning and see your wish to obfuscate. Your discussing Trench's appearance was just an attempt at an 'insult' - and added nothing to the debate as to his 'theories' - PETULANT   

Some members here have alerted me to Trench's identity on certain public websites.  And the info corresponded to the city that Trench says he is from.  So if that's true then I have seen his photos.  I will say it was an unsolicted message from a member.  I don't care who Trench is. 

So, on one hand you aren't interested - but you were 'interested' enough to discuss it on here, anyway ?  ( Do you know the definition of PRIVATE ?)


My take ?  I am NOT interested the lives of those who are my 'internet opponents' ... 


I've never heard Trench talk before but going by what he writes I can see how people get turned off by it.  Certainly most people here do.

Frankly, I still don't know if he writes as he does for a rise - or if he really is a misogynist
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 05:38:38 AM

You spoke of 'illegality' re using an agent to get a work permit ? So, is it 'illegal' to get an invite from a  firm in Russia - that you've never heard of to get a Biz visa - or the same re a hotel voucher - for a RU tourist visa ?

No - that is not the criteria Russia sets to decide VISAs - the UK / IRL are ( currently)  EU member states  - Ireland is not a Commonwealth member - this is 101 stuff - WHY do you continually post SO daft ?

I make NO apology for using English - as spoken by a Brit / Irish person in everyday life.  Your 'English' is a 'dumbed down' version used by immigrants who spelt English phonetically ;)

 
This is just another example of your inattentiveness and don't worry - my 'feelinz' aren't hurt by your 'disinterest' ... 

It's already clear that you have no wish to learn, your ability to post misleading info and need to 'hit back' when your (incorrect) 'info' is busted / questioned ;)

Again, you aren't even reading clearly what I wrote.  To "buy" a work visa invite for $1000 or more is possible but you are getting it from a 3rd party company not the school or organization you would be working for.  This is technically illegal but since it's Russia anything goes.
I know so many Americans working there on a 3 year "tourist" visa.  Again not the purpose of the visa but hey why not.

The Russian visas issued to the UK and Canadian citizens are virtually the same, I checked. 

Which immigrants are you referring to?  Didn't the British invade Canada to try and set up their colonial empire back in the day.  You must be talking about your great great great great grandfather then. 

Now American English is the defacto standard for ESL learners around the world.  You tell some guy in China you want some trousers, a jumper and a pack of crisps and they'll be looking at you sideways.  You tell a Russian guy you want a "fag" and he'll straight up punch you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 05:41:24 AM
In the school systems in Russia  and Ukraine, British English is the standard.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 05:47:15 AM

So, on one hand you aren't interested - but you were 'interested' enough to discuss it on here, anyway ?  ( Do you know the definition of PRIVATE ?)

My take ?  I am NOT interested the lives of those who are my 'internet opponents' ... 


Check this thread earlier.  Some other member posted Trench's real name, VK profile, city where he lives and photo.  None of this info was taken down.  It is still up as of right now and Trench hasn't complained.  So either he doesn't care if people know his identity or it's not really him. 

Anyways for a guy who has a wife and kids you sure seem to have alot of time to reply to every single post and stir up things.  Shouldn't you be spending more time with them? Life's short man.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 05:49:04 AM
He doesn’t have a wife, but a current partner and his kids are grown and on their own.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 05:58:09 AM
Again, you aren't even reading clearly what I wrote.  To "buy" a work visa invite for $1000 or more is possible but you are getting it from a 3rd party company not the school or organization you would be working for.  This is technically illegal but since it's Russia anything goes.
I know so many Americans working there on a 3 year "tourist" visa.  Again not the purpose of the visa but hey why not.

The irony of WHO is actually failing to read is clearly lost on you ..  It is noted you dodged my point re the purchase of invitations to enable the provisioning of work / biz/ tourist visas ...


The Russian visas issued to the UK and Canadian citizens are virtually the same, I checked. 

NO - they are not .... and it's OK - I'm sure you realise ( NOW ) that you've been talking out of your arse ( as opposed to 'ass' about how Russia decides the Visa criteria - that commonwealth membership is NOT a criteria  :)

Which immigrants are you referring to?  Didn't the British invade Canada to try and set up their colonial empire back in the day.  You must be talking about your great great great great grandfather then. 

I'm referring to the 'dumbing down' and phonetic spelling that made learning your versions of 'English' easier  - it's not like UK / IRL figure highly in your immigrants, by nationality ( UK currently 7th) - your 'English' is heavily influenced by your southern neighboUr

Now American English is the defacto standard for ESL learners around the world.  You tell some guy in China you want some trousers, a jumper and a pack of crisps and they'll be looking at you sideways.  You tell a Russian guy you want a "fag" and he'll straight up punch you.

This is not my field of expertise - but I can tell you that my RU wife learnt UK English - five years ago and that Russians at my friends lang school in Sochi study both and are made aware of the differences - lest confusion arises

http://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/quick-grammar/british-english-and-american-english (http://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/quick-grammar/british-english-and-american-english)


In the meantime Fag - as in cigarette :

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/290786/origin-of-fag-meaning-a-cigarette-in-british-english (http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/290786/origin-of-fag-meaning-a-cigarette-in-british-english)


Why would you guys speak of pants? ..as trousers - pants are what one might ( hopefully ) wear under trousers and a rubber?... erases mistakes and is bought in a stationary shop ( pens / ink etc., - not a shop that has paused / stopped )

Now I'm being factious

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 05:59:09 AM
He doesn’t have a wife, but a current partner and his kids are grown and on their own.

I guess this forum is his "mistress" then as he sure spends alot of time here.  And I laughed pretty hard when I saw his post telling someone to quote him so I, who has him on ignore, could see it!  Gotta get dem visa validity periods right for all the UK lurkers who may be reading here! haha.

Moby I'm just not gonna bother replying to you anymore.  I suggest you go help your buddy Trench get a visa so he can get to Russia and find a wife.  That way you guys won't be on here arguing about useless things and actually have a real life.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on March 05, 2018, 06:02:18 AM
In the school systems in Russia  and Ukraine, British English is the standard.

It's not the English they speak. American movies, TV and music are more influential than texts.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 06:07:34 AM
He doesn’t have a wife, but a current partner and his kids are grown and on their own.

Thanks, Boethius

I interpreted this as "Please Moby, stop - I give up - I'm busted - Please stop pointing out my serial howlers" ;)


My kids are on their own - as in don't live with me. They are 'big' - as in old enough - girls !

Lastly, I'm waiting in for a delivery - that last week's snow ( The UK ground to a halt )  delayed

Unlike, poor Sting23 I'm not on a salary

and my beloved's happily sunning herself

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 06:08:12 AM
I'm referring to the 'dumbing down' and phonetic spelling that made learning your versions of 'English' easier  - it's not like UK / IRL figure highly in your immigrants, by nationality ( UK currently 7th) - your 'English' is heavily influenced by your southern neighboUr

Noah Webster changed spellings to differentiate Americans.

Growing up, our spellings were British in Canada. That changed with computers, as word defaults are American spellings. My kids use American spellings, which always annoys me.  Our language is distinct.

mhr7-no different from kids here. But when I meet people from the FSU who learned English in school, they use British accents on words.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 06:08:28 AM
It's not the English they speak. American movies, TV and music are more influential than texts.

Quite ((
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on March 05, 2018, 06:29:52 AM
It's not the English they speak. American movies, TV and music are more influential than texts.

but given how little English (ie American) they actually hear, I mean everything is dubbed, all movies, everything on TV. Sooo frustrating when I am there visiting, given I don't understand much myself, it's annoying. :)
We did manage to find a couple of movies (in Cinema) that had the movie in orginial language with Ukrainian subtitles instead, but they are very far and few apart.

Here (in Sweden) we have never used voiceover on movies and TV-shows, everything is in original language and subtitled, except kids movies ofc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on March 05, 2018, 06:48:09 AM
mhr7-no different from kids here. But when I meet people from the FSU who learned English in school, they use British accents on words.

Pretty rare that I hear one over here. To Russians, an "r" is an "r" and not an "eh". British spelling tends to be the norm though.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 06:57:03 AM
I’ve heard Russians speaking with English accents.  Sounded strange to me.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on March 05, 2018, 07:48:09 AM
but given how little English (ie American) they actually hear, I mean everything is dubbed, all movies, everything on TV. Sooo frustrating when I am there visiting, given I don't understand much myself, it's annoying. :)
We did manage to find a couple of movies (in Cinema) that had the movie in orginial language with Ukrainian subtitles instead, but they are very far and few apart.

Here (in Sweden) we have never used voiceover on movies and TV-shows, everything is in original language and subtitled, except kids movies ofc.

Often when I watch a film with my gf it will be in English with Russian subtitles which I also tend to read while listening to the English. At times I wonder if we are truly watching the same film because the English I hear and the Russian I read don't quite seem to have the same meaning, to me at least.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on March 05, 2018, 09:17:55 AM
At times I wonder if we are truly watching the same film because the English I hear and the Russian I read don't quite seem to have the same meaning, to me at least.

As a woman from SPb once told me:
She and niece watched a UK TV show as translated into Russian and found it hilarious.
Then niece married a UK guy, moved there and watched same show in English.
It was not nearly as funny.
So most of the funny came from Russian (mis)translation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 05, 2018, 09:37:55 AM
In my experience, the more a teacher knows about his subject(s) the better he may help his students. As an IBM instructor for 15 years, I soon realised that if I had to cover an area, say, 10 wide/deep I had better know 15 or more because of the 'irregular' questions I might receive :).

On the other hand, most of my US colleagues had a different approach: they would reply that those questions were not in their stated course descriptions, and move on :(.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: The Natural on March 05, 2018, 09:55:40 AM
Watching US movies now, even with the option of Russian subtitles, my wife prefers Norwegian subtitles.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on March 05, 2018, 10:38:58 AM
In my experience, the more a teacher knows about his subject(s) the better he may help his students. As an IBM instructor for 15 years, I soon realised that if I had to cover an area, say, 10 wide/deep I had better know 15 or more because of the 'irregular' questions I might receive :).

On the other hand, most of my US colleagues had a different approach: they would reply that those questions were not in their stated course descriptions, and move on :(.

Oh my . . . what an unsubtle put down!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on March 05, 2018, 10:55:39 AM
No.. I suggested no such thing ..I am telling you - READ - before posting daft ..

You are a US chap - no recent visits to Russia - telling a Brit - who knows Russia (FAR better than you )  and is not long back - about UK visas for Russia  ? :)



The Website YOU provided is for UK citizens to get visas for Russia. I trust what they, the experts, say on it, not what you "heard" from others which contradict what that website is saying. You have a habit of irritating people. Those people you talked to probably told you that you can do things with your visa so you can try it, get in trouble and get kicked out of Russia and they won't have to deal with you anymore.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 11:39:21 AM

The Website YOU provided is for UK citizens to get visas for Russia. I trust what they, the experts, say on it, not what you "heard" from others which contradict what that website is saying. You have a habit of irritating people. Those people you talked to probably told you that you can do things with your visa so you can try it, get in trouble and get kicked out of Russia and they won't have to deal with you anymore.

BillyB

That you persist with posting daft is entertaining

The WORK visa - that Trenchy was 'suggesting' he was considering has no such restrictions - OK ?

As my last RU biz visa's expiration date was nearly 3 weeks after I needed to leave Russia - due to the 90 day in 180 rule - mentioned in my Leaving Russia thread - I certainly didn't need your inability to read  - to learn anything )))
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on March 05, 2018, 12:42:14 PM
In the school systems in Russia  and Ukraine, British English is the standard.

New guy here. American married to a RW who was a high school teacher in Moscow. According to teachers in Moscow the reason British English is the standard is basically due to the cost of learning English.

When I was living in Moscow in 2000 a dept. chair from a high school (not my wife's) told me that the cost of sending a group of English teachers to America would be at least 5 times more expensive than sending the same group to the UK. Flights cost more even if only to the east coast. Accommodation and meals were more and the universities in the UK were far cheaper. In addition, many teachers wanted to visit the US but visas were more difficult to obtain and this was pre 9/11. Presumably this was always the case and still is.

Of course the Internet and American capitalism and culture has meant that American English is now common place even in Russia.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 01:00:54 PM


Of course the Internet and American capitalism and culture has meant that American English is now common place even in Russia.

Spending half my time in Russia - I don't see evidence of this - my friend is head of English at one of the schools
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on March 05, 2018, 01:07:55 PM
Spending half my time in Russia - I don't see evidence of this - my friend is head of English at one of the schools

I do.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on March 05, 2018, 01:13:25 PM
Spending half my time in Russia - I don't see evidence of this - my friend is head of English at one of the schools

Do you mean the cost of training English teachers to learn UK English vs American English or the fact that American English has permeated Russian culture?

Also I did say my conversation with the dept. chair took place in 2000. Russia wasn't in very good financial shape at the time. Most decisions back then would probably have been cost based unless other factors were more important.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 05, 2018, 01:37:04 PM
Do you mean the cost of training English teachers to learn UK English vs American English or the fact that American English has permeated Russian culture?

'the fact' that American English has permeated Russian Culture

Also I did say my conversation with the dept. chair took place in 2000. Russia wasn't in very good financial shape at the time. Most decisions back then would probably have been cost based unless other factors were more important.

Granted you did - so why not "'the fact' that American English HAD permeated Russian Culture" ? ;)

Sorry, you brought out the pedant in me ))
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on March 05, 2018, 01:55:04 PM
'the fact' that American English has permeated Russian Culture

Granted you did - so why not "'the fact' that American English HAD permeated Russian Culture" ? ;)

Sorry, you brought out the pedant in me ))

It's a forum and I'm altering between several other projects on my computer. I don't have time to proofread.

I've been going to Russia since 1998 and lived there from 2000 to 2006. Since moving back to the US my wife and I have been back at least once a year. The changes are dramatic. IMO and my wife's American culture has permeated some might even say invaded Russian culture.

Another topic for those who taught English in Russia is that the theory that the Kremlin has purposely restricted the growth of English language teaching in schools.

Again, IMO, from talking with teachers some have said the Kremlin has tried to limit the growth of English language training for fear that American influence, ideas and culture would spread in Russia. Other European countries (France, Germany, etc) have noted this and their politicians have been against the spread of American culture but certainly haven't voted to stop the spread of English language training. The Kremlin however has far more clout than other Euro governments.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on March 05, 2018, 02:30:19 PM
I've been going to Russia since 1998 and lived there from 2000 to 2006. Since moving back to the US my wife and I have been back at least once a year. The changes are dramatic. IMO and my wife's American culture has permeated some might even say invaded Russian culture.

I think there's no doubt that this is the case. I see the American flag on many articles of clothing worn by teens, American movies dominate at the theaters and my coworkets love to talk about the American serials they watch online.

I've had several Russians tell me they prefer American English because it's easiier to speak, listen to and more clear, consistant and to the point.

I would disaree with the opinion that Putin is trying to limit English. It's compulsory in public schools and private English schools are eveywhere.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on March 05, 2018, 03:11:29 PM

I would disaree with the opinion that Putin is trying to limit English. It's compulsory in public schools and private English schools are eveywhere.

What I've been told by the expats teaching English and the Russian teachers of English is that Putin isn't increasing the teaching of English in Russian schools as many European countries have done since the '90s. Many native Russian teachers of English, even in Moscow, are far from fluent in English even if they have a graduate degree in English from a Russian university.

My wife's friend was a high school English teacher in Moscow. Her degree was from the Soviet era and her course notes were full of errors but she had a doctorate in English so she was assumed to be correct. My degree was only a Msc in Physics and a JD/MBA so I obviously wasn't an expert according to many Russians. I only taught English for 15 months before finding a better paying job.     

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 03:42:22 PM
I've had several Russians tell me they prefer American English because it's easiier to speak, listen to and more clear, consistant and to the point.


Given they are the same language, with the same grammatical rules, I don't follow this.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 04:54:01 PM
New guy here. American married to a RW who was a high school teacher in Moscow. According to teachers in Moscow the reason British English is the standard is basically due to the cost of learning English.

When I was living in Moscow in 2000 a dept. chair from a high school (not my wife's) told me that the cost of sending a group of English teachers to America would be at least 5 times more expensive than sending the same group to the UK. Flights cost more even if only to the east coast. Accommodation and meals were more and the universities in the UK were far cheaper. In addition, many teachers wanted to visit the US but visas were more difficult to obtain and this was pre 9/11. Presumably this was always the case and still is.

Of course the Internet and American capitalism and culture has meant that American English is now common place even in Russia.


In Soviet times, 99.99% of foreign language students never traveled abroad.  The better half attended an English language school, as that was the school in his district.  This was before the collapse of the USSR, obviously.  They learned British English.  No one from his school ever traveled abroad before the collapse.  His cousin came from a commie family (alcoholic low life father a party official), and through connections, she got into university as a student of English.  She never traveled abroad, nor did any of her classmates.  I'd assume most English language students still don't travel abroad, although the reasoning makes sense for some schools.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 05:04:09 PM
Many native Russian teachers of English, even in Moscow, are far from fluent in English even if they have a graduate degree in English from a Russian university.

'Twas always the case.  This is because in Soviet times, your position in the society and fealty to the party had more influence on whether you obtained higher education than intellect or ability.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on March 05, 2018, 05:30:37 PM
Reading about Russian "English"  reminded me of the time I arrived in Moscow to the immigration queue where the haughty tall blonde amazon examined my documents disdainfully as she looked to compare my photo and my face . She spoke to me with a heavy accent in much the manner that comedians used when mocking the Soviet era with words and a language I was not able to discern !
On making repeated explanations of not understanding her -- the questions she asked got louder and louder !

I started to see the funny side of this at about this point -- a supervisor was attracted to my gate by the noise !  She looked at my passport as the original attendant spoke to her loudly in Russian -- the supervisor then asked what language I spoke - I replied in English that I spoke English and asked  what language the original attendant was speaking to me in> >? 
This outraged her -- as she shouted at me that she was speaking English (  I was more tuned into how she spoke now and was able to discern the words through her extremely heavy accent and the way she distorted the words !)

She then told the supervisor that I did not understand English !!!  I kept thinking of John Cleese at about this stage !!
Of note- I was very familiar with Russian speakers talking in English and quite good at understanding them. --  and when speaking to them in English to talk slowly enough to help them understand me ! The supervisor who came to sort the problem out immediately understood me and I her -- with no problems !!
I thought it better to keep a straight face at this point and focus on getting out of there!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on March 05, 2018, 05:46:03 PM

In Soviet times, 99.99% of foreign language students never traveled abroad.  The better half attended an English language school, as that was the school in his district.  This was before the collapse of the USSR, obviously.  They learned British English.  No one from his school ever traveled abroad before the collapse.  His cousin came from a commie family (alcoholic low life father a party official), and through connections, she got into university as a student of English.  She never traveled abroad, nor did any of her classmates.  I'd assume most English language students still don't travel abroad, although the reasoning makes sense for some schools.

In 2005 (if IIRC), at my wife's school, I was helping some students fill out applications for admission to foreign universities. Most wanted to go to US or UK universities however Canada was also acceptable to some and even AU.

One student had been accepted by at least a dozen American universities including several Ivy League schools. Her desired choice was Columbia for premed, #2 was UCLA. Her English was excellent well beyond what should would have learned at school. She said her mother insisted she master English and go abroad for university. She had had a private English language tutor for several years. 

When she heard I was from NY she wanted me to talk to her mother about NY and Columbia. I didn't go to Columbia but had been to several events there and was familiar with the university and location. After she left I told my wife her family could never afford Columbia or the cost of living in NY.

A couple of days later my wife and I met with her and her mother at my wife's school. The mother was wearing a designer outfit and tens of thousands of dollars worth of jewels. The mother turned out to be quite friendly and by the time she left my wife and I learned quite a bit about her and her daughter.

Her husband had died a couple of years ago and left her substantial assets abroad. She wanted to move abroad to escape the Russian weather. Tuition at Columbia and cost of living in NY wasn't a problem she said.

Russian capitalism was beginning.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 05:47:57 PM
Most of the former nomenklatura educated their children abroad after the collapse.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 08:01:57 PM
I think there's no doubt that this is the case. I see the American flag on many articles of clothing worn by teens, American movies dominate at the theaters and my coworkets love to talk about the American serials they watch online.

I've had several Russians tell me they prefer American English because it's easiier to speak, listen to and more clear, consistant and to the point.

I would disaree with the opinion that Putin is trying to limit English. It's compulsory in public schools and private English schools are eveywhere.

My Russian friends tell me the same thing, they find my accent much easier to understand.

British people tend to butcher the language. Even moby and Trench, the 2 UK guys on this forum write in a very strange, rambling style that is unpleasant to read. 

The school in Moscow where I taught uses an International curriculum that is American English based.    If you said to a student "hey mate, want some chips?  They would look at you funny.  Whereas if you said "hey buddy, want French fries? " they get it.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 05, 2018, 08:57:51 PM
Given they are the same language, with the same grammatical rules, I don't follow this.
It's not a question of grammar but rather of phonetics: normal British pronunciation is usually more clipped and faster - to name just a few of its characteristics - therefore it takes a foreigner longer to tune in to it ;).

On the other hand, some US accents are also hard to understand initially: e.g. it took me a while to figure that Groucho Marx meant "pearl" when he said "poyrl" :D - Brooklyn parlance IINM.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 09:01:37 PM
Reading about Russian "English"  reminded me of the time I arrived in Moscow to the immigration queue where the haughty tall blonde amazon examined my documents disdainfully as she looked to compare my photo and my face . She spoke to me with a heavy accent in much the manner that comedians used when mocking the Soviet era with words and a language I was not able to discern !


HAha usually it's the men who have the heavy accents.  The girls tend to have a softer lilt.  In general it's the younger people who speak better as they have more exposure to English via the internet and movies, music...  The older ppl tend to have that thick accent.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 09:17:24 PM
British people tend to butcher the language. Even moby and Trench, the 2 UK guys on this forum write in a very strange, rambling style that is unpleasant to read. 


This is both hilariously funny and sad (coming from an English teacher).


British people don't "butcher" their language.  moby makes the odd spelling error, likely from typing on a mobile, but his grammar is excellent, and I don't find his posts difficult to read.


Trench makes some consistent spelling errors (as do you), and doesn't break up his paragraphs well, which is why his posts are more difficult to read.




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 09:18:52 PM
HAha usually it's the men who have the heavy accents.  The girls tend to have a softer lilt.  In general it's the younger people who speak better as they have more exposure to English via the internet and movies, music...  The older ppl tend to have that thick accent.

Accent has zero to do with exposure for non native speakers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 09:22:55 PM
It's not a question of grammar but rather of phonetics: normal British pronunciation is usually more clipped and faster - to name just a few of its characteristics - therefore it takes a foreigner longer to tune in to it ;) .

On the other hand, some US accents are also hard to understand initially: e.g. it took me a while to figure that Groucho Marx meant "pearl" when he said "poyrl" :D - Bronx lingo IINM.

Today, the news here was reporting on the Italian election.  I understood Di Maio (the gist, not everything, as I understand French), but not a word of what Renzi said.  I think it was the speed of their respective languages.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on March 05, 2018, 10:17:35 PM

Given they are the same language, with the same grammatical rules, I don't follow this.

There are many differences between the two phonemically, phonetically, lexically, and culturally. There are even differences in some of the grammar. We've been separate countries for about 250 years and, linguistically, that's a significant amount of time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2018, 10:21:54 PM
There are many differences between the two phonemically, phonetically, lexically, and culturally. There are even differences in some of the grammar. We've been separate countries for about 250 years and linguistically, that's a significant amount of time.

Examples of the conciseness and broad grammatical differences please.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 11:03:39 PM


A couple of days later my wife and I met with her and her mother at my wife's school. The mother was wearing a designer outfit and tens of thousands of dollars worth of jewels. The mother turned out to be quite friendly and by the time she left my wife and I learned quite a bit about her and her daughter.

Her husband had died a couple of years ago and left her substantial assets abroad. She wanted to move abroad to escape the Russian weather. Tuition at Columbia and cost of living in NY wasn't a problem she said.

Russian capitalism was beginning.   

DaveNY, welcome to the board.  Ah if Russian capitalism was starting then it is full fledged now.  Was in Moscow last year teaching at a private state school.  Would see Bentleys and Mercedes with drivers waiting to pick up/drop off students.  Had a few private clients and would see the lifestyle they lived.  Bodyguards, international travel, all luxury goods and gadgets galore. 

Unfortunately for the average citizen they are still stuck with subpar wages and a lower standard of living.  As a native English teacher I was probably making 4-5x more than a Russian teacher.  Even doctors there earn nothing compared to the ones in North America or western Europe.  This means there's alot of greediness and jealousy among those who are rich and the masses who aren't.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on March 05, 2018, 11:37:03 PM
Examples of the conciseness and broad grammatical differences please.

The differences aren't significant enough to be misunderstood but they do exist. One example would be that British English uses the perfect tense more often whereas Americans use past simple.

"I've already eaten breakfast."  "I already ate breakfast."
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 05, 2018, 11:45:29 PM
The differences aren't significant enough to be misunderstood but they do exist. One example would be that British English uses the perfect tense more often whereas Americans use past simple.

"I've already eaten breakfast."  "I already ate breakfast."

If you hang around native English speakers from other countries you'll soon learn they say some things not common to you.
I remember my first tour to Europe, we had Brits, Aussies, Kiwis and Canucks all on the bus. I also roomed with a Brit and Aussie one time. 

Aussies will say "how ya goin' mate?".  and Brits say "hey love" , "blimey that was bloody brilliant mate".  Almost fell outta my chair first time I heard that hahaha.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on March 06, 2018, 12:07:06 AM
I’ve learned 3 non native languages so I do know what I’m talking about here. I have also never heard a non native speaker speak a language without an accent. I also doubt you speak Russian without an accent, but you could prove it, if you wished to.

True, in order to avoid having an accent a languge needs to be learned in childhood. Learning a language past the early teens will always result in an accent.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 06, 2018, 01:47:45 AM
Brits say "hey love" , "blimey that was bloody brilliant mate".  Almost fell outta my chair first time I heard that hahaha.

Not THIS 'Brit' - Those are more Thames Estuary English ..Sadly, it is spreading ever west and northwards


In Derby you'd hear, "me Duck", for love ..

As you have told us - you only saw SE England - and Dublin is 'part of Britain' - according to you ...   :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 06, 2018, 06:47:49 AM
Today, the news here was reporting on the Italian election.  I understood Di Maio (the gist, not everything, as I understand French), but not a word of what Renzi said.  I think it was the speed of their respective languages.
Di Maio speaks with a mild Neapolitan accent, while Renzi's is Florentine and faster.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 06, 2018, 06:51:31 AM
Was in Moscow last year teaching at a private state school.
Isn't that an oxymoron ;)?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 06, 2018, 07:19:14 AM
Those are more Thames Estuary English
I am not familiar with the accents in Essex and Kent, but in London our neighbourhood greengrocer would hand over his parcel to my ex-wife saying: 'ere you are, Love ;).

The Cockney accent is hard to decipher, too, e.g. with foine, loine being said rather than fine, line :o. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 06, 2018, 07:19:53 AM
Isn't that an oxymoron ;)?

This from an English teacher. ? (Tease)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 06, 2018, 07:23:00 AM
I am not familiar with the accents in Essex and Kent, but in London our neighbourhood greengrocer would hand over his parcel to my ex-wife saying: 'ere you are, Love ;).

The Cockney accent is hard to decipher, too, e.g. with foine, loine being said rather than fine, line :o.


This might help)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary_English?wprov=sfla1 (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary_English?wprov=sfla1)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 06, 2018, 05:30:57 PM
This is both hilariously funny and sad (coming from an English teacher).

My thoughts, too!

British people don't "butcher" their language.  moby makes the odd spelling error, likely from typing on a mobile, but his grammar is excellent, and I don't find his posts difficult to read.

I beg to differ - he makes heaps of spelling errors  :D,  but I would agree with the rest of your statement.

Trench makes some consistent spelling errors (as do you), and doesn't break up his paragraphs well, which is why his posts are more difficult to read.

Trench simply writes nonsenical, rambling sentences, many of which have no foundation in his native language.  Again, typing on a mobile phone (while riding on a train or bus, perhaps?) accounts for some of it, but his general grammatical construction is hideous.  While I can normally figure out the gist of what he's trying to say, some of his "poils" of wisdom really DO remind me of the standard mushroom scenario - keep them in the dark and feed them bullshit!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 06, 2018, 05:50:49 PM
Isn't that an oxymoron ;)?

It's a state run school with the option of paying extra for classes taught in English under an international curriculum.  There are both Russian and native English teachers.

If you never worked in Moscow you wouldn't know.  They have all the grades from kindergarten to 12 together at the same school. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 06, 2018, 07:15:38 PM
This might help)http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary_English?wprov=sfla1 (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary_English?wprov=sfla1)
From the same source, however:
Quote
there is some debate among linguists as to where Cockney speech ends and Estuary English begins...Studies have indicated that Estuary English is not a single coherent form of English; rather, it has some of the phonetic features of working-class London speech spreading at various rates socially into middle-class speech and geographically into other accents of southeastern England.
NOT an impressively thorough definition ;).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 06, 2018, 07:33:44 PM
My thoughts, too!

I beg to differ - he makes heaps of spelling errors  :D,  but I would agree with the rest of your statement.


you raggin' on my English bruh?! haha..well, these English skills have gotten me flights to Russia, Europe and America courtesy of my good Russian clients.  I basically haven't paid for a flight in the last 5 years.  And this is on top of a pretty sweet salary and housing.

What's really hilariously sad is that Boethius has over 13000 posts here.  More than anyone else! And she's a Canadian born woman married since 18.  Not a foreign guy looking to date or marry a FSU lady. 

How did that happen?

I sure hope her "better half" isn't jealous of all the time she spends here. 


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on March 06, 2018, 08:12:04 PM
you raggin' on my English bruh?! haha..well, these English skills have gotten me flights to Russia, Europe and America courtesy of my good Russian clients.  I basically haven't paid for a flight in the last 5 years.  And this is on top of a pretty sweet salary and housing.

What's really hilariously sad is that Boethius has over 13000 posts here.  More than anyone else! And she's a Canadian born woman married since 18.  Not a foreign guy looking to date or marry a FSU lady. 

How did that happen?

I sure hope her "better half" isn't jealous of all the time she spends here.

You are putting your own interpretation on what the forum is about. Putting it as simply as I can -- it is a discussion ( of/about events and life) of Russian speaking women -- albeit expanded to the FSU generally .
Nothing in charter says anything about  bride seeking or even dating !
 Above all else -- she has considerable real current and ongoing knowledge and understanding of Ukraine and the Russian speaking world and is an invaluable resource here on the forum.

If you choose to play silly tag with Moby -- now that is a waste of energy -Moby not only believes he is the only one ever right - and then has to have the last word -- if you cant see that is a waste of your time I can only see more petulant posts coming from you.
Put Moby on ignore -- like many others have ! Move on. :deadhorse:

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on March 06, 2018, 08:13:11 PM
I speak two languages, English and Bad English. I'm actually fluent in Bad English. I haven't been double checking my posts since I've been busy. I just went back to read some of the stuff I been typing lately and WOW, if you want to talk about Bad English, I'm the expert.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 06, 2018, 08:29:38 PM
What's really hilariously sad is that Boethius has over 13000 posts here.  More than anyone else! And she's a Canadian born woman married since 18.  Not a foreign guy looking to date or marry a FSU lady. 

How did that happen?

I sure hope her "better half" isn't jealous of all the time she spends here.

I type about 100 wpm, and don't need spellcheck.  I can type 4 or 5 posts in the time it takes most posters to post one.

I will check from work, and otherwise, only post when the better half is at work (such as right now).  I also post when I can't sleep, which is fairly common for me, usually while I listen to the only radio programme available then, Coast to Coast.  It's interesting, in a conspiracy sort of way.

I have never posted I married at 18.  I have posted I was a teen.  How did that happen?  I graduated HS early and went to study in the USSR.

I don't have the most posts on the forum, but more posts than other currently active members.

You are also making suppositions on the forum.  From Dan, owner of the forum -
We also have MammaD (Dottie), who is an AW married to an AM for oh... let's just say it has been a while  ;)  - AND - she brings a highly-valued perspective of principles and honesty and commitment and a few other characteristics we could all use more of. She reminds us of the importance of morality and sincerity in all that we do - AND - her son is married to a wonderful Russian lady who brought with her a son - and they have formed a terrific family unit.- Dan

>>I consider this more of a forum for men.<<
You could not be more wrong. - Dan

Feel free to PM him and tell him he's wrong.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2018, 12:13:32 AM
From the same source, however:NOT an impressively thorough definition ;).

I'd agree - but you know a little more about the Thames Estuary 'virus' ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2018, 12:16:05 AM

What's really hilariously sad is that Boethius has over 13000 posts here.  More than anyone else! And she's a Canadian born woman married since 18.  Not a foreign guy looking to date or marry a FSU lady. 

How did that happen?

I sure hope her "better half" isn't jealous of all the time she spends here.

When our sting23 is 'busted' - the default 'riposte' is, " you spend too much time on here .." ? !



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on March 07, 2018, 12:29:47 AM
British people don't "butcher" their language.  moby makes the odd spelling error, likely from typing on a mobile, but his grammar is excellent, and I don't find his posts difficult to read.

The Brits don't own English, they very generously gave it away to several other countries (colonies) who have since made it their own. And, yes, some of them (and some Americans) butcher the language badly. I've had conversations with these people on both sides of the pond.

The OED, the most definitive record of the English language, contains English from all parts of the world.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2018, 12:39:56 AM
That's a pretty fair summary

I readily admit tongue in cheek ripostes when cousins across the pond question my English ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2018, 02:00:39 AM
The Brits don't own English, they very generously gave it away to several other countries (colonies) who have since made it their own. And, yes, some of them (and some Americans) butcher the language badly. I've had conversations with these people on both sides of the pond.

The OED, the most definitive record of the English language, contains English from all parts of the world.

I never claimed they did. I just thought the statement that Brits “butcher” their language was silly.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 07, 2018, 03:01:13 AM
I never claimed they did. I just thought the statement that Brits “butcher” their language was silly.

Getting back to Trenchcoat ...  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2018, 03:08:03 AM
Must we....  the 'English' debate was FAR more interesting than his theorising ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 07, 2018, 03:08:29 AM
you raggin' on my English bruh?!

Your English (or your eyesight) is in dire need of improvement if you couldn't see this:

...  moby makes the odd spelling error, likely from typing on a mobile, but his grammar is excellent, and I don't find his posts difficult to read.

I beg to differ - he makes heaps of spelling errors  :D,  but I would agree with the rest of your statement.

You're not in the frame - this time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 07, 2018, 03:09:36 AM
Must we....  the 'English' debate was FAR more interesting than his theorising ;)

Read my WHOLE post (including the quote) again ...  :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2018, 03:11:13 AM
Sorry, missed the humoUR ..my bad (
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 07, 2018, 03:22:12 AM
Sorry, missed the humoUR ..my bad (

Chur, bro!  8)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 07, 2018, 04:05:02 AM
Your English (or your eyesight) is in dire need of improvement if you couldn't see this:

You're not in the frame - this time.

ok my bad, must have read it too quickly.

Speaking of Trench what happened to him?  It's not like him to be silent in his own thread for so long. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 07, 2018, 04:27:48 AM
Speaking of Trench what happened to him?  It's not like him to be silent in his own thread for so long.

It's not lunchtime in England yet!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 07, 2018, 04:32:07 AM
It's not lunchtime in England yet!

My observations is that he posts during what I presume is a morning commute, lunch time and evening commute ..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 07, 2018, 04:28:15 PM
ok my bad, must have read it too quickly.

Speaking of Trench what happened to him?  It's not like him to be silent in his own thread for so long.

LOL :D Yeah, I noticed the irony that my own thread had been hijacked but I was enjoying see you & Mobers tearing into each other too much to want to intervene :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 07, 2018, 05:26:07 PM
LOL :D Yeah, I noticed the irony that my own thread had been hijacked but I was enjoying see you & Mobers tearing into each other too much to want to intervene :D

HAhaha he's bantha fodder.  Good thing there's no bball courts in Dublin or wherever he's from. boy be brokin' some pogos wit da sick with it, jimmy j swish aight dawg. that's in yo grill. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2018, 05:31:05 PM
You've been told moby's from Northern Ireland.  Since when has Dublin been located in Northern Ireland?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 07, 2018, 06:31:28 PM
You've been told moby's from Northern Ireland.  Since when has Dublin been located in Northern Ireland?

Same island. Close enough.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2018, 06:36:04 PM
They are completely separate countries.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 07, 2018, 06:48:54 PM
They are completely separate countries.

I could care less.  Most non Canadians here couldn't name all the provinces and territories.  See if anyone here knows where Nunavut is. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 07, 2018, 06:52:22 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ugJZhL-cbc
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2018, 06:59:39 PM
I know where Nunavut is. I would hazard a guess the other Canadian posters here do as well.

I guess the question is, are you happy being knowledge challenged? (That’s meant as a general question, not directed at any particular poster).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 07, 2018, 07:03:20 PM
Well if you can name all 50 states by heart or all the former USSR countries I'd be impressed.  I got better things to do.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 07, 2018, 07:13:51 PM
I doubt anyone outside of Ireland cares what the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland are.

Half the UK people voted for Brexit because they thought it meant less immigrants, more independence from Europe. 
Half the US people voted for Trump. 

People know that smoking and drinking in excess is bad for your health.  They are addicted yet still do it. 
Being an adulterer when you are married isn't good for your relationship.  They know they should be faithful but they aren't.

Knowledge without action is useless. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2018, 07:17:07 PM
Well if you can name all 50 states by heart or all the former USSR countries I'd be impressed. 
I can.  I can even name the capitals of all the former Soviet republics.  I could probably name 2/3 of the capitals of US states.

Quote
I got better things to do.

Such as arguing with virtual strangers online?

I doubt anyone outside of Ireland cares what the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland are.

Given that the bulk of the IRA's funding came from Irish Americans, most of whom had never set foot in either Ireland or Northern Ireland, I suspect you are mistaken.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on March 07, 2018, 07:26:12 PM
I can.  I can even name the capitals of all the former Soviet republics.  I could probably name 2/3 of the capitals of US states.

Such as arguing with virtual strangers online?

Given that the bulk of the IRA's funding came from Irish Americans, most of whom had never set foot in either Ireland or Northern Ireland, I suspect you are mistaken.

Shall I give you a gold medal for all that knowledge you got?!   I never talk to you but you seem to like to interject your comments on my posts.  Anyways I'm done with replying to you for good.  Peace out!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2018, 07:27:49 PM
No, I don't want a gold medal.  As I posted, I'd hazard a guess the majority of posters here could do the same.  It isn't exactly Mensa material.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 19, 2018, 11:46:08 PM
Well, Trench's dating philosophies are as sound as his forecasts re 'Brexit'

As predicated - Mrs May has 'negotiated' that the the UK must obey EU rules - with no say in any new rules - and pay for membership - while she works out how to leave .....without losing the DUP support she needs to survive.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 20, 2018, 05:45:43 AM
Well, Trench's dating philosophies are as sound as his forecasts re 'Brexit'

As predicated - Mrs May has 'negotiated' that the the UK must obey EU rules - with no say in any new rules - and pay for membership - why she works out how to leave .....without losing the DUP support she needs to survive.

The 'transition period' will be just a little over 18 months so not too long then we will be out of it :) The UK-EU negotiations can be a bit like dating a girl - do what each other want align and what is either side prepared to give up. Clearly May could not have it all exactly how she wanted but its mostly there. If its just a short period then it is essentially just abiding by many of the rules we currently have, not being at the table for such a short period won't be a big bone for contention. I think she has limited the powers of the EU somewhat during this period. Crucially the UK will be free to negotiate and make trade deals with other countries during this period whilst keeping all the EU trade deals. The Irish question I think could still do with some written in assurance of the supremacy of UK sovereignty in that region, but of course the single market/customs union will not be able to carry on in Ireland or the UK as a whole after the transition period anyway.

I think its a case of a deal that will satisfy the majority of those in Parliament that she has done enough on most of the areas that both Leave & Remain MP's call for whilst avoiding veering to the extremes of both sides. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 20, 2018, 06:13:03 AM
The 'transition period' will be just a little over 18 months so not too long then we will be out of it :) The UK-EU negotiations can be a bit like dating a girl

Which like your knowledge of 'Brexit' and the Irish border question - you KEEP demonstrating to be clueless about ! You didn't address that Mrs May is now in deep do,do with her Brextremists ))

The Irish question I think could still do with some written in assurance of the supremacy of UK sovereignty in that region, but of course the single market/customs union will not be able to carry on in Ireland or the UK as a whole after the transition period anyway.


Duh, if it doesn't there'll have to be a border - and that WILL NOT HAPPEN ... Knock, knock .... those with wooden-tops for brains are finally figuring it out .. 'We' voted to leave and it's unworkable and has already cost us Billions we were going to save

I think ..

NO - you haven't
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on March 20, 2018, 08:10:56 AM
I am going to a presentation about Brexit tomorrow afternoon.
After that, I will know more about it than anyone here!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on March 20, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
I am going to a presentation about Brexit tomorrow afternoon.
After that, I will know more about it than anyone here!

I'm sure you will! There are a lot of experts on Brexit but I'm sure the experts of experts have chosen your part of the world the USA to give a talk on it. Let us know how it goes because I'm curious about how their expert opinions on Brexit will compare against other expert opinions.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 20, 2018, 10:41:17 AM
I am going to a presentation about Brexit tomorrow afternoon.
After that, I will know more about it than anyone here!

Careful ML you will be stwo ping on Mobers toes as RWD's resident expert on the subject of Brexit. Unless of course he turns up as your expert speaker on the subject ;D lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 20, 2018, 10:50:35 AM
Which like your knowledge of 'Brexit' and the Irish border question - you KEEP demonstrating to be clueless about ! You didn't address that Mrs May is now in deep do,do with her Brextremists ))


Duh, if it doesn't there'll have to be a border - and that WILL NOT HAPPEN ... Knock, knock .... those with wooden-tops for brains are finally figuring it out .. 'We' voted to leave and it's unworkable and has already cost us Billions we were going to save

NO - you haven't

Remains to be seen if she is in trouble with her Brextremists as you put it. I don't think they will like the part on NI as it now stands as the original draft rather upset them on this and it will bring back memories of that. However, I think they will be reassured by the transition period not being too long and the ability to do trade deals. With the overall affect of it being that the EU's domination of us due to end I don't see that it will cause a revolt. Meanwhile Keir Starmer moved to welcome the agreement so with the Labour party onside on this one there us unlikely to be any revolt from the remain side in her party. So looks like it's all good for the go ahead Mobe ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 20, 2018, 11:31:48 AM
Poor Trench

It's all good for the transition period, as long as the rights of UK citizens living in the remaining 27 are observed.


The border Q is only postponed...

I will keep you Humble Pie in the freezer for you!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2018, 05:12:57 AM
Well I'll keep my methodology a secret ;D I'm confident it will work for me this time. Will help avoid sideling this thread as I think drsecu experience is worth focusing on here.

Great..so the next post from you will be the wedding photos ?  :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 01, 2018, 07:24:11 AM
Poor Trench

It's all good for the transition period, as long as the rights of UK citizens living in the remaining 27 are observed.


The border Q is only postponed...

I will keep you Humble Pie in the freezer for you!

Be careful Mobe, you may end up eating that humble pie all by yourself ;D

Well, it looks like re-moaners are all banking on the Irish Q as their last stand. I can see the Irish Q being resolved over the next few months though and with it the re-moaners will be in full retreat. Even Labour the main opposition party is in disarray over any organised opposition to Brexit and is like the Tories fragmented between Brexiteers and Remoaners.

Bit by bit we have seen Brexit advancing and bit by bit we have seen Remoaners have a stab at countering it only to fall flat.

I think Brexit will go through and it will be a good thing for the UK. I think we will still have close ties to the EU but not be under its thumb any longer or in a customs union. I also think that we will have good terms to move within EU nations for a lengthy term, perhaps at least 3 months or so similar to that which we have with Ukraine. I think in general we will have good rights within the EU to live/work even if its not as automatic as it is now. So all in all I think we will end up benefiting from leaving the EU by gaining a better strategic position within Europe.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 01, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
Be careful Mobe, you may end up eating that humble pie all by yourself

Based on the govt's 'negotiation skills' , so far - I'm resting easy

Well, it looks like re-moaners are all banking on the Irish Q as their last stand.

Hardly,


It's just the largest howler the brextremists can't get their heads around - having made promises they just can't deliver..


Mrs May's 'answer' ?- a tour of the 4 nations - AGAIN promising post 'brexit' pledges she cannot  deliver 

She will get a spanking in the May local elections
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on April 01, 2018, 08:09:34 PM

I think Brexit will go through and it will be a good thing for the UK.

There are many aspects, and it may be true that UK will benefit from some of these aspects after Brexit.

But there is one item that will almost kill the UK after Brexit.

That is the loss of the Financial Center of Europe.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 02, 2018, 01:30:18 AM
Quite..

The UK is happily giving away that status...such is the STUIDITY of the leave vote..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2018, 06:15:02 AM
Based on the govt's 'negotiation skills' , so far - I'm resting easy

Hardly,


It's just the largest howler the brextremists can't get their heads around - having made promises they just can't deliver..


Mrs May's 'answer' ?- a tour of the 4 nations - AGAIN promising post 'brexit' pledges she cannot  deliver 

She will get a spanking in the May local elections

And no doubt you'll be there to spank her Mobe ;D


Seriously though, with regards to the Irish border Q this cannot be properly answered until we know what the proposed trade deal will be with the EU. So far all we know is that the UK is looking for the most tariff free, free trade deal that is possible without the full movement of people policy. That and they are seeking to do the deal on a sector by sector approach signing up to the EU agencies or agreements with in each sector where appropriate.

So until the workings of that are fully decided upon the Irish Q will be not be answered fully as no-one will know what basis the trade across the border will be working on. It looks like both sides want no tariffs so it will probably just be digital checks on the border and digital checks on companies of what trade is being done where possibly through invoices, etc. The precise workings still need to be worked out but I think like most issues they will come to an agreement on it all.

Essentially if there is little in the way of tariffs then there is little to check as it crosses the border, any EU citizens wishing for work will have to apply for a work visa. I can't really see the Irish Q will be as big an issue as you seem to think Mobe.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 02, 2018, 06:20:02 AM
There are many aspects, and it may be true that UK will benefit from some of these aspects after Brexit.

But there is one item that will almost kill the UK after Brexit.

That is the loss of the Financial Center of Europe.

I don't think it will kill the UK, many nations continue to function well both inside and outside of Europe by not having a financial center. As a proportion of the economy the city actually doesn't figure as that big a percentage of the economy either to its GDP or people it employs. The city will still exist after Brexit albeit most probably a little slimmed down. The UK stands to make far more in terms of trading relations with other countries. The city guys having too much sway on government has always been a problem for the UK so its probably best that we are not too tied to its wishes & whims.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2018, 03:45:58 AM



Seriously though, with regards to the Irish border Q this cannot be properly answered until we know what the proposed trade deal will be with the EU. So far all we know is that the UK is looking for the most tariff free, free trade deal that is possible without the full movement of people policy. That and they are seeking to do the deal on a sector by sector approach signing up to the EU agencies or agreements with in each sector where appropriate.


Must you keep posting like an IDIOT ?

How can  a border ( already ) guaranteed to be free of restrictions on movement of people or trade have restrictions ?



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 03, 2018, 04:04:46 AM

Must you keep posting like an IDIOT ?
That must be your favourite saying! :D

How can  a border ( already ) guaranteed to be free of restrictions on movement of people or trade have restrictions ?

Yes but ONLY for UK & Republic of Ireland citizens. Like I said before, EU citizens will not be hindered but they will lose their Freedom to Work in the UK, NOT their Freedom of Movement in the UK. No UK employer will be able to legally employ them without the proper visa, those that do will face heft fines.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2018, 10:36:41 AM
That must be your favourite saying! :D

I reserve it for those for whom the cap fits ... and BOY..it does - bearing in mind the nonsense you post about the Irish border question

Yes but ONLY for UK & Republic of Ireland citizens. Like I said before, EU citizens will not be hindered but they will lose their Freedom to Work in the UK, NOT their Freedom of Movement in the UK. No UK employer will be able to legally employ them without the proper visa, those that do will face heft fines.

Duh, and HOW - once again - are you going to stop EU citizens - with a right to work in Eire - from moving freely within the UK - if there can't BE a border ?  The Good Friday agreement and Common Trade Area PROHIBIT it
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 03, 2018, 11:33:06 AM
I reserve it for those for whom the cap fits ... and BOY..it does - bearing in mind the nonsense you post about the Irish border question

Duh, and HOW - once again - are you going to stop EU citizens - with a right to work in Eire - from moving freely within the UK - if there can't BE a border ?  The Good Friday agreement and Common Trade Area PROHIBIT it

You won't but they won't have the right to work in the UK only to move around like a tourist in the UK that us what you're not getting Mobe.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2018, 11:48:09 AM
You won't but they won't have the right to work in the UK only to move around like a tourist in the UK that us what you're not getting Mobe.

 :deadhorse:

What YOU aren't getting is how is the UK going to control EU citizens from entering the mainland via N.Ireland and KNOW their intentions and differentiate from EU citizen WITH the rights ?   They CANNOT impose checks at the border without  breaking the CTA / GFA agreements 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 03, 2018, 12:11:24 PM
:deadhorse:

What YOU aren't getting is how is the UK going to control EU citizens from entering the mainland via N.Ireland and KNOW their intentions and differentiate from EU citizen WITH the rights ?   They CANNOT impose checks at the border without  breaking the CTA / GFA agreements

They won't have to break those agreements. All jobs in the UK now require you to produce your passport. Irish Republic passports will be valid with UK employers for work. Those passports from other EUA member states will not be valid unless they have a UK visa work permit inside, simple as :) no checks on the northern Irish border needed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 03, 2018, 01:46:34 PM
They won't have to break those agreements. All jobs in the UK now require you to produce your passport. Irish Republic passports will be valid with UK employers for work. Those passports from other EUA member states will not be valid unless they have a UK visa work permit inside, simple as :) no checks on the northern Irish border needed.

Wrong..

Firstly, lots of UK and Irish citizens do not HAVE passports .. they can prove their status with a birth certificate
and a letter from HMRC

Re EU citizens or my current wife...a permanent resident of the UK...but not an EU /UK passport...there is going to be a new document needed. Not in place, yet ...not agreed.

You are making red herrings...

FACT...the UK cannot and will not be able to control EU citizens arriving...nor know when they arrived in the UK



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 03, 2018, 02:08:34 PM
Wrong..

Firstly, lots of UK and Irish citizens do not HAVE passports .. they can prove their status with a birth certificate
and a letter from HMRC

FACT...the UK cannot and will not be able to control EU citizens arriving...nor know when they arrived in the UK

They won't care either, there's no real need to check through every tourist. The Irish Republic  will do this anyway when land on their shores anyway.

Birth certs etc are of course an alternative, I said passports as most employers ask for this as preferable for ease.

I'm sure they'll sort it all for Brexit Mobe :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 04, 2018, 12:38:43 AM
They won't care either, there's no real need to check through every tourist. The Irish Republic  will do this anyway when land on their shores anyway.

Birth certs etc are of course an alternative, I said passports as most employers ask for this as preferable for ease.

I'm sure they'll sort it all for Brexit Mobe :)

I can see grasping this is hard for you...

If an EU citizen is purely a Tourist, fine..I am discussing those that are here, may come before 'brexit' ( current rules apply) or those arriving after and claiming they have been here or never left ...

The Irish are under no obligation to provide a non EU UK immigration info post Brexit. In fact data sharing is another negotiating point.

Try to keep up, Trench

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 04, 2018, 07:21:40 AM
I can see grasping this is hard for you...

If an EU citizen is purely a Tourist, fine..I am discussing those that are here, may come before 'brexit' ( current rules apply) or those arriving after and claiming they have been here or never left ...

The Irish are under no obligation to provide a non EU UK immigration info post Brexit. In fact data sharing is another negotiating point.

Try to keep up, Trench

I think you'll find they just have a certain time to register for UK residency/citizenship and after that time they won't be able to claim UK residency/citizenship. Since we will no longer be in the EU the EU will have no power to enforce the UK to give any such EU citizens as you describe UK citizenship. There will be the terms of how long they have got to apply for UK residency/citizenship and that will be that. After that time they will be able to visit the UK for as long as but as a tourist with no work rights unless they obtain a work visa. I think if anything does happen to fall through the net it will be cleared up in later years.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 04, 2018, 10:59:21 PM
I think you'll find they just have a certain time to register for UK residency/citizenship and after that time they won't be able to claim UK residency/citizenship.

Aha, Mr 'expert'..Who do you know who is in the situations I have mentioned?

As per usual, you never realise when you are dealing with someone who actually DOES know...and therefore can say with some authority..

You are posting bollox.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2018, 12:40:13 AM
Aha, Mr 'expert'..Who do you know who is in the situations I have mentioned?

As per usual, you never realise when you are dealing with someone who actually DOES know...and therefore can say with some authority..

You are posting bollox.

Ah, 'the' authority on it all eh Mobers, lol.

I'm just going to have fun seeing it all come to fruition & you having to eat your words :)

If you look at the Gov Mobers they've been pretty unequivocal that Brexit is going to be seen through by which I mean the PM & the cabinet. I can't see that they will want any humiliating U turn on their hands. Indeed that doesn't seem to be an option on the table so I'm pretty sure Brexit will be seen through Mobers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Maxx2 on April 05, 2018, 07:02:58 AM
The age thing I recall has come up on here before as a separate thread. I believe the consensus reached in the end on that thread was that we all like to think we look younger than our years but in reality we look about the age we are. So, I will make no claim to look younger than I am. Apparently in your forties people lose about half of the calogen in their skin and this affects us looking older, those that smoke can also look older at a younger, also those with a lot of sun damage to their skin. That said its possible that someone may still look attractive for their age, FSW in their thirties & many even in their forties can look attractive. The odd few men or women may look slightly younger than their age by the odd 2-3 years but I wouldn't really push it more than that for most people. The odd few people can look a fair bit older than their age also, premature graying, wrinkling, haggered looking, etc - and for many this is probably more likely than looking younger. I've heard people say they look young looking then you look at them and they look anything but.

Like I said before, guys in their mid forties have pulled girls in their early thirties, they looked mid forties but they still managed it. If you find a girl in her early thirties that really wants children chances are she has been passed over and is desperate to have children and if she is into you then it can happen. However, I've seen many profiles where the women (even in her thirties) puts 40 as her age limit. So like I say you may have a bit less choice but still a choice out there. I just think that Filopino women to me sounds an easier task should you have difficulty landing a FSW.

Also remember that you're 46-47 going on 50 - this search is going to take you time, then you are going to have to build a relationship with the woman before you have children so that is going to take time. If say you did that and had children towards say 50 then you would still in this day & age be on the older end of those being a parent. I don't think it would be too old to be a parent but its getting to the age where some thought might need to be put into it. Essentially you would be about 65-66 ish when the first child reached 16, if you're still going - but then no-one can really count on being around for sure. In any case by the time you're getting to 50 odds are you will not be looking like you're 40 or late thirties.

Main point of all this is not to depress you about your prospects, I think you still have some, but at the same time there is reality we all need to face. I myself wish I had all the info on here & learning I now have on FSU dating ten years ago when I first looked into this. Then for many women I could easily have a crack at loads in their twenties and into thirties as I aged and would probably be sorted with it all reasonably easily. The optimum age in all this seems to be a guy in his early to mid thirties if looking for a childbearing woman. So I think you could well succeed in all of this Andrew but I would try and be level headed about the age you are at and age you will be when dealing with FSW.


You know Trenchcoat, a lot people here give you grief. Instead of reading your comments for inaccuracies, I prefer looking for the truths in them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2018, 08:26:30 AM

You know Trenchcoat, a lot people here give you grief. Instead of reading your comments for inaccuracies, I prefer looking for the truths in them.

Gee thanks Maxx :), you don't know how much I appreciate that after all the Trench bashing I get from some of the others, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on April 05, 2018, 11:47:56 AM
Maxx, I have stated here before that I have never seen such a display of bullying as that directed to Trench.

I suspect many of these bullies were bullies as children.  When they see a person being bullied, they like to gang up and pile on.

And we wonder where children get this from.

I have noticed similar behavior with chickens being bullies in a gang.  For whatever reason, one chicken will attack another, generally pecking on its neck.  That area loses feathers and becomes exposed.  Then other chickens (bullies) will start pecking on that same area until bleeding starts.  Then the pecking intensifies, generally leading to death of the bullied chicken.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 05, 2018, 11:50:30 AM
I hope Trench is able to find what he is looking for, though I doubt he will.  I think he needs to work on himself and his own insecurities first.


I will continue to call him out when he posts something stupid, though, and I don't view it as bullying.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2018, 03:05:13 PM
Maxx, I have stated here before that I have never seen such a display of bullying as that directed to Trench.

I suspect many of these bullies were bullies as children.  When they see a person being bullied, they like to gang up and pile on.

And we wonder where children get this from.

Appreciate the support ML, well I roll with the punches. End of the day I know with some guys on here it's critical and others criticism. There's guys like Sting who I think fits in with the child bully scenario a lot, he's pretty aggressive on here as a default characteristic. Then there is Moby who really gets his nose out of joint should anyone even suggest anything slightly contary to his thinking. I think both have a kind of inferiority complex about them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 05, 2018, 05:30:38 PM
Appreciate the support ML, well I roll with the punches. End of the day I know with some guys on here it's critical and others criticism. There's guys like Sting who I think fits in with the child bully scenario a lot, he's pretty aggressive on here as a default characteristic. Then there is Moby who really gets his nose out of joint should anyone even suggest anything slightly contary to his thinking. I think both have a kind of inferiority complex about them.

Trench this has nothing to do with bullying.  This is about realistic expectations for dating Russian women.  Most of what you write is utter bs.  You switch plans every other minute, have no direction or goal.  And you don't take good advice.   You jump from Ukraine, Poland, Phillipines, I lost track man...funny thing is in London there's so many types of women.  Why bother going to a different country.

If you don't have enough game to set up some dates in your own region then I can't help you.

It ain't about no inferiority complex man, it's bordering on pity for you.  I've been to Russia several times now and got something in the works for the future.
All you do is talk and pretend.  It is rather harmless and you seem to live in a fantasy world.  Moby on the other hand is just a stubborn freak.  All I will say is he's lucky he hasn't met me in real life.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 05, 2018, 05:41:17 PM
Trench how many new girls have you contacted or Skyped with in since the new year?  Have you lined up meetings with anyone and will actually meet them?

I told you to do this several times but you didn't listen.

You mentioned St Petersburg a while back.  What happened there.  Did you look at getting a Russian visa?

And if I see you write "but a woman will leave me as soon as she's back in the UK" one more time....That's your fallback excuse.  Other guys cut you slack because they got their own lives.  You need to save yourself.  Ain't no one gonna care about you. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2018, 07:05:03 PM
Trench how many new girls have you contacted or Skyped with in since the new year?  Have you lined up meetings with anyone and will actually meet them?

I told you to do this several times but you didn't listen.

You mentioned St Petersburg a while back.  What happened there.  Did you look at getting a Russian visa?

And if I see you write "but a woman will leave me as soon as she's back in the UK" one more time....That's your fallback excuse.  Other guys cut you slack because they got their own lives.  You need to save yourself.  Ain't no one gonna care about you.

Sting, you don't really get the situation, as someone else noted on a thread recently on here from Australia if you go on western dating websites like 'Plenty of Fish' they are crap. They are crap in Australia, they are crap in the US and most of all they are crap in the UK. If you even manage to bring anyone up on these sites odds are you are scrapping the bottom of the barre, aside from fat and/or ugly you will get a lot on there with mental health problems. I ask you why are you not dating at home but instead planning another foray out in Russia? For me quite simply the women are better, I can bring up more of them and they are looking for a guy more like me - someone educated & intelligent rather than someone who is dumb but just knows how to action their gob.

The rest I have already explained so there is no point me doing so again. Of course I am not going to visit these places all at once. I have them in mind for different reasons in different circumstances. It might sound strange to you the way I am going about this but as explained before in the past there are reasons for it. In about a couple of months I should be able to give it another go with what I have planned and will let you all know how it goes as a result. Essentially, I don't want to write loads of stuff to women I want to meet the women soon as in the flesh, I can then either rule them out or pursue a relationship if the are also interested, so that is how I wish to proceed. Writing lots of messages for it all later to go south seems a pointless endeavour to me if it can at all be avoided the women may even feel the same also. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 05, 2018, 08:15:02 PM
Dude you never even read what I wrote.  I"m going back to Russia for work.  I got some lucrative jobs lined up, wealthy Russians will pay good money if you have certain skills.  If I happen to meet some girls then all the better.

I've dated girls here and abroad.  When I was in London I met lots of non-Brits.  You should be at most an hour or 2 train ride away. 

I ain't talking about Plenty of Fish or dating sites.  Heck in Moscow I never used a dating site or app.  I did it the normal way, meeting people in social situations and talking to them.  Ask for their number and set up a date.   Some say yes and some say no. 

The problem is if you contact the women too late they will flake on you.  You do it your way and see what happens.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 05, 2018, 10:02:00 PM
Dude you never even read what I wrote.  I"m going back to Russia for work.  I got some lucrative jobs lined up, wealthy Russians will pay good money if you have certain skills.  If I happen to meet some girls then all the better.

I've dated girls here and abroad.  When I was in London I met lots of non-Brits.  You should be at most an hour or 2 train ride away. 

I ain't talking about Plenty of Fish or dating sites.  Heck in Moscow I never used a dating site or app.  I did it the normal way, meeting people in social situations and talking to them.  Ask for their number and set up a date.   Some say yes and some say no. 

The problem is if you contact the women too late they will flake on you.  You do it your way and see what happens.

I think when you're being less hostile like this Sting you come across as a lot more thoughtful and worth listening too.

Well there are lots of non-brits in London, its about a couple of hours or so away from me. Brit girls are usually as awkward as hell to chat up & ask for numbers - like a lot of westernised women they will think nothing of humiliating/embarrassing the guy but making a big deal out of deciding to reject the guy. They also usually have many options in terms of guys so doing such doesn't bother them. FSW have no-where near as many options & if she becomes known as a bitch she knows she will be the one losing out as FSU guys will pass over her for chicks with better attitudes. Anyhow, it would be a case of me hunting down a non-brit girl and hope she hasn't been in the country long enough to pick up bad ways or be inundated with guys if she's a bit pretty.

I still see my best odds are by going out to the FSU and picking straight from the tree. I have been told by others on here that many FSW will meet up with you if you are in her city and call her up - since its convenient to her and she avoid the keyboard romeo situation. Some may flake but I'll just have to deal with that. One girl I communicated with online a couple of years back wanted to meet very soon so soon that a couple of months of communication was unacceptable to her, lol so she refused to continue communicating with me. Normally I find you only really need a couple of letters or so back & forth at most before FSW get comfortable with you. The rest is just producing a lot of needless tittle tattle that wastes valuable time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 05, 2018, 10:19:33 PM
FSW have no-where near as many options & if she becomes known as a bitch she knows she will be the one losing out as FSU guys will pass over her for chicks with better attitudes.


And you know this, exactly, how?  From your vast experience with FSUM?  Your assumption that people are somehow different in different parts of the world is flawed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 05, 2018, 11:05:38 PM

You know Trenchcoat, a lot people here give you grief. Instead of reading your comments for inaccuracies, I prefer looking for the truths in them.

Good morning, Maxx

Do you have THAT much time on your hands ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 05, 2018, 11:21:33 PM
Ah, 'the' authority on it all eh Mobers, lol.

When it comes to non EU / EEA citizens on the EU Directive of freedom of movement as dependant family members of EU citizens then YES ..I am clearly an expert..especially compared to you.

You have zip experience of such matters ...challenging 3 govts and getting written apologies  from government ombudsmen for their incorrect implementation of EU immigration Directives.

I'm just going to have fun seeing it all come to fruition & you having to eat your words :)

Based on the govt's. having to climb down and accept 20 more months of no change re EU policy on trade, immigration,  etc...like I promised...your track record is not looking good.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 05, 2018, 11:52:36 PM
Maxx, I have stated here before that I have never seen such a display of bullying as that directed to Trench.

ML

I do not accept my countering  Trench's misleading bollox IS 'bullying'...rather a necessity. .lest just one poor soul thought his 'advice' was sound.

Your theories as to any childhood issues relating to bullying are risible. I was bullied when I came to the mainland... I had a strong accent and was a keen student. I know what it is like be bullied, thanks...and how to deal with 'em.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2018, 12:58:56 AM

And you know this, exactly, how?  From your vast experience with FSUM?  Your assumption that people are somehow different in different parts of the world is flawed.

So you're telling me life was the same one side of the Iron Curtain as the other? That there was a feminist revolution in the same manner and at the same time as in the west? and that the culture in the FSU is no different to that in the west? That they share all the same norms & values and upbringing as we do?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2018, 01:36:38 AM
There was a feminist inspired society in the USSR before there was one in the West. Have you never heard of Alexandra Kollontai?  Russian women obtained the right to vote before their Western counterparts.

Your suppositions are inaccurate,  which is part of the reason why long term, you will fail. You are looking for something that doesn’t exist, and blaming your failure with women on outside forces, rather than your own inadequacies.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2018, 03:37:14 AM
There was a feminist inspired society in the USSR before there was one in the West. Have you never heard of Alexandra Kollontai?  Russian women obtained the right to vote before their Western counterparts.

Nope, never heard of her & I studied Russian history at School so no doubt not someone that made a big enough impact. For sure they had the right to vote & lended their muscle to the Soviet mission/war cause. I do not see either of these as feminist though in them self. With women being able to work/labour, fight in the army they were not on a feminist driven campaign asking for it but were told by the mostly male Bolshevik/Soviet command they had to do it. Voting again doesn't necessarily amount to a feminist crusade that culminates in entrenched long term feminist views in society  (whether the woman realises she has feminist views or not).

Let's approach the topic from another aspect for clarity. Is there for example a regular call for women & men to be paid the same in Russia or Ukraine like what we currently have in the UK?

In the UK we currently have reports every week or so of women being paid less than men depite these figures being based on different jobs within the company/organisation lol. In UK it is illegal to pay either gender less if doing the same job.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2018, 08:33:30 AM
Nope, never heard of her & I studied Russian history at School so no doubt not someone that made a big enough impact.

LOL.  She is rather famous.  Apparently you must not have been a good student of history.  Other famous Russian feminists include Maria Trubnikova, Nadezhda Stasova, Evgenia Konradi, Anna Filosofova, and of course, Nadezhda Krupskaya.  Krupskaya, in particular, after the Revolution, pushed for full equality for women.

So why are you opining on matters on which you evidently know zero?

Quote
For sure they had the right to vote & lended their muscle to the Soviet mission/war cause. I do not see either of these as feminist though in them self. With women being able to work/labour, fight in the army they were not on a feminist driven campaign asking for it but were told by the mostly male Bolshevik/Soviet command they had to do it. Voting again doesn't necessarily amount to a feminist crusade that culminates in entrenched long term feminist views in society  (whether the woman realises she has feminist views or not).

No, you are again wrong.  There was a strong movement of feminism in Russia starting in the 18th century.  Intellectuals supported equality for women.  You can see this in the works of Russian writers, such as Chernyshevsky.  Although feminism started among the nobility, it was also an issue pushed by both female Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, as evidenced in their polemics.  When the Bolsheviks took power, they established creches, liberalized divorce laws, and made abortion legal, all to ensure women's equality.  Stalin overturned abortion rights, but they were restored after his death.  In fact, in Soviet times, abortion was the number 1 form of birth control.

Quote
Let's approach the topic from another aspect for clarity. Is there for example a regular call for women & men to be paid the same in Russia or Ukraine like what we currently have in the UK?

Apples and oranges.  These societies are not as economically advanced as the UK, and their economies collapsed. Currently, there are such arguments made, though not at governmental levels.  In the USSR, women were paid the same as men for the same work. 

ETA - As I posted previously, I think you are making excuses for yourself (i.e., the evil UK feminists means I can’t find a woman), and that generally does not lead to a positive result.  Feminism is not the reason you are not connecting with UK women, I can guarantee that. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 06, 2018, 05:54:57 PM
ETA - As I posted previously, I think you are making excuses for yourself, and that generally does not lead to a positive result.  Feminism is not the reason you are not connecting with UK women, I can guarantee that.

So you admit the societies are different and yet you do not consider that these differences can affect the forming of relationships in society. Someone has already commented that in times when a curfew was imposed birth rate went up however if a guy is at work all hours it can fall dramatically & even relationships may not form as much. In China they had the one child policy which caused a big gender imbalance - how easy do you think it is for a Chinese man to get a girl as a result - harder than the UK even, lol. Point is society is structurally engineered though all sorts of decisions, policies & activities. Take social housing in the UK, the existence of social housing affects relationships. It tells those in it they don't need to work as they have a house, they can get lazy & develop poor attitudes. That can affect relationships,  etc

Now I have already admitted here in the past that I don't do well pulling the girls as some other guys. There are many it's in the UK that don't get much if any joy pulling girls. Does that mean I will not succeed in FSU dating who knows. I can but try and see how it goes and that after all's said and done at the end of the day is all that I can do.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 06, 2018, 06:28:22 PM
No, relationships do not form differently based on societies, at least not romantic relationships (as opposed to arranged marriages). You will be who you are, no matter where you go. Initially, the lack of a common language, and your increased buying power vis a vis local men will work to your advantage. However, long term, they will be a detriment.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on April 07, 2018, 12:42:30 AM
. . . I have already admitted here in the past that I don't do well pulling the girls as some other guys. . .
Perhaps there are some area's of your persona that you need to work on?

. . . I can but try and see how it goes and that after all's said and done at the end of the day is all that I can do. . .
Please try on, it makes coming to RWD and reading your posts worthwhile. Bear in mind any interaction you have with a woman from the fSU may influence her opinion of men from Western countries.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 07, 2018, 10:43:36 AM
Chinese guys are picking up these women now so whats stopping western guys now?

I was watching a documentary of China about a decade or so ago. Anyway, in it about a good couple of dozen or so Chinese guys turned up to a social in their village in China - all fairly young men in their twenties. They were all there to compete for the interest of some young Chinese ladies - they were about 3 or 4 of them, lol. That is the extent of the gender imbalance out in China. Many a man there went away empty handed and hopes dashed. Rich Chinese guys travel to FSU for women but even then not all FSW want a Chinese guy, some don't look upon them well. I never really got the impression FSW travel to China much for a guy, if she did they would be flocking round her, she would be mauled, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 07, 2018, 12:23:53 PM
I was watching a documentary of China about a decade or so ago. Anyway, in it about a good couple of dozen or so Chinese guys turned up to a social in their village in China - all fairly young men in their twenties. They were all there to compete for the interest of some young Chinese ladies - they were about 3 or 4 of them, lol. That is the extent of the gender imbalance out in China. Many a man there went away empty handed and hopes dashed. Rich Chinese guys travel to FSU for women but even then not all FSW want a Chinese guy, some don't look upon them well. I never really got the impression FSW travel to China much for a guy, if she did they would be flocking round her, she would be mauled, lol.

So now you are basing your impressions from a documentary a decade ago?  Have you even been to China or Asia dude?!  I personally have several Russian friends who worked or studied in China.  Some would go out with a Chinese dude, some not.  If you are rich you'll always attract a certain type of woman.  Just look at all the Russian oligarches and their 2nd or 3rd wife or mistress.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 07, 2018, 03:27:06 PM
So now you are basing your impressions from a documentary a decade ago?  Have you even been to China or Asia dude?!  I personally have several Russian friends who worked or studied in China.  Some would go out with a Chinese dude, some not.  If you are rich you'll always attract a certain type of woman.  Just look at all the Russian oligarches and their 2nd or 3rd wife or mistress.

I'm essentially saying what you are, some FSW will date Chinese and some won't, some have no hang ups at all and some do. Odds are though most will readily date a white western guy if they are a white FSW in terms of dating criteria.

Students are one thing but apart from the odd FSW going to China career wise I doubt few go there. China is generally teeming with Chinese. Even though documentary was a decade old it's still will be much the same in terms of the gender situation. Another couple of decades it may change a little as the one child policy is no more.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 07, 2018, 10:31:29 PM


But apart from the odd FSW going to China career wise I doubt few go there. China is generally teeming with Chinese.

Sighs

Do you know RUSSIAN women that work and live in China?

I meet a lass who comes to help at the RUSSIAN F1 GP every year who lives and works in Shanghai.

She loves it there and so do her friends.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 08, 2018, 12:02:33 AM
ok mate but we are not here for drinks as most of us are trying to find a wife so maybe you get over there and come across as more decisive , less pessimistic and then you can pull this off. I cant get over for a few months at least.

People have told him that over and over.  He just won't listen.

Trench lives in the UK which is a stone's throw away to Ukraine/Russia.  Compared to us in North America or Australia which is a 12-15 hour flight.  He coulda done several trips by now.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 08, 2018, 12:07:31 AM
I'm essentially saying what you are, some FSW will date Chinese and some won't, some have no hang ups at all and some do. Odds are though most will readily date a white western guy if they are a white FSW in terms of dating criteria.

Students are one thing but apart from the odd FSW going to China career wise I doubt few go there. China is generally teeming with Chinese. Even though documentary was a decade old it's still will be much the same in terms of the gender situation. Another couple of decades it may change a little as the one child policy is no more.

You know nothing man.  Russia and China are global partners who are next to each other geographically.  Russia's got over 100 million and China a billion people.  There's bound to be a few who intermarry.

Learning Chinese is becoming almost in demand as English for Russians.  I know several Russians who worked in China.  They can teach English and make more than in Russia, even though they aren't a native speaker.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on April 08, 2018, 02:32:27 AM
I watched a documentary about the Vladivostok region recently and China are pumping a lot of money into agriculture and also spending lots in the casinos. Let's hope they don't have the same as what's happening in Australia ATM... many big farms where my parents live are being bought by Chinese companies. They are paying a lot more than the going rate for land. Many local farmers think as their population grows they will struggle to feed their population, so they are buying up big in other countries.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on April 08, 2018, 08:08:40 AM
The Chinese population density across the Russian border in Eastern Russia is now greater than the local Russian population.  This must be a concern for the Russian government.  We have members on this forum, however, who dispute that tidbit as simply an untrue discussion point.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 08, 2018, 03:13:01 PM
People have told him that over and over.  He just won't listen.

Trench lives in the UK which is a stone's throw away to Ukraine/Russia.  Compared to us in North America or Australia which is a 12-15 hour flight.  He coulda done several trips by now.

That one comes up so often, its not as easy as you think. Many of us have work commitments, then there is the cost. Each trip I estimate costs about £1k for a week - travel to & from airports, flight, hotel/apartment, car parking, travel money, eating out/buying food, entertainment if you wish, etc. A long weekend is almost pointless once travel time including to & from airport is taken off. To make a real good run off it the longer out there the better but that takes time to plan and money & time to hand. Also, while you could do it in the winter to be honest it is usually just unpleasant to be there in cold weather. That and as we have seen this winter the UK can grind to a halt when bad weather hits us. The summer the women are out in force in the streets with their goods laid bare, prime time for us there then :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 08, 2018, 03:25:49 PM
The summer the women are out in force in the streets with their goods laid bare, prime time for us there then :D

that must be the pubescent version of you talking as usual.  one week trips are useless for you man.  Take a month long vacation, hit up Airbnb and rent a flat.
No girl is gonna bother coming back to you if you are only there a week.  They will see you as a tourist and not being serious.  In the end you're just wasting your money.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on April 08, 2018, 08:18:40 PM
People have told him that over and over.  He just won't listen.

 

And what did Einstein say about insanity and RWD????

People here will never learn....

Trolls don't care about what one writes...they just try to make unfounded comments, then watch and laugh as others comment.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on April 08, 2018, 08:50:14 PM
The Chinese population density across the Russian border in Eastern Russia is now greater than the local Russian population.  This must be a concern for the Russian government.  We have members on this forum, however, who dispute that tidbit as simply an untrue discussion point.

I have posted here several times that I think it is inevitable that China will come to control all of current day Russia up to the Ural mountains.

Just when . . . is up in the air.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 08, 2018, 09:35:21 PM
And what did Einstein say about insanity and RWD????

People here will never learn....

Trolls don't care about what one writes...they just try to make unfounded comments, then watch and laugh as others comment.

The funny thing is Trench isn't even trying to being a troll.  He's just like that.  So it's pure unintentional comedy.  Well it's his life so he can do what he wants.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on April 08, 2018, 10:02:39 PM
The funny thing is Trench isn't even trying to being a troll.  He's just like that.  So it's pure unintentional comedy.  Well it's his life so he can do what he wants.

You don't know that. I picture Trench living in his Mom's basement.....spending his life on a keyboard with no life ( other than on RWD).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 08, 2018, 10:51:47 PM
There was a feminist inspired society in the USSR before there was one in the West. Have you never heard of Alexandra Kollontai?  Russian women obtained the right to vote before their Western counterparts.

I know it's somewhat  :offtopic:, but that is not strictly correct.  New Zealand women gained the right to vote in 1893; Australia followed suit in 1902 after federation, although South Australia and Western Australia had earlier given their own women the right to vote; Finland (even though part of Russia at the time) in 1907; Norway in 1913 and Denmark in 1915.  If you're talking only about the major powers, then I would agree with you (the UK in 1918 [limited to women over 30; extended to all women over 21 in 1928]), Germany in 1918, the USA in 1920 and France in 1944.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 08, 2018, 10:59:07 PM
...China is generally teeming with Chinese.

That's close to your best yet!

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

And you haven't even been there!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 09, 2018, 12:05:43 AM
That's close to your best yet!

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

And you haven't even been there!

OMG I missed this gem!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 09, 2018, 12:24:47 AM
You don't know that. I picture Trench living in his Mom's basement.....spending his life on a keyboard with no life ( other than on RWD).

That's probably an unfortunate but accurate description.   I told him to go to London and find some dates.  I did finance work there back in the day.  There's so many expats you literally can date the entire world.  I almost did.  French, American, Czech, Chinese, Indian, Japanese, Polish, Romanian, German, met girls from all those countries.   Didn't even know about Russian or Slavic girls back then. 

And this was back when we had no social network sites like Facebook etc... iPhones weren't invented yet.  You had to hit the pubs and clubs and actually talk to people normally.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Maxx2 on April 09, 2018, 01:19:40 AM
You don't know that. I picture Trench living in his Mom's basement.....spending his life on a keyboard with no life ( other than on RWD).


I knew a guy as poor as a church mouse. He lived in a mobile home (trailer) on his parent's farm. I doubt he made $1000 a month in income. He was a tile setter and very slow one at that. I always thought it strange that he did a lot of research on buying a yacht. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 09, 2018, 01:40:10 AM

I knew a guy as poor as a church mouse. He lived in a mobile home (trailer) on his parent's farm. I doubt he made $1000 a month in income. He was a tile setter and very slow one at that. I always thought it strange that he did a lot of research on buying a yacht.

We can all dream I guess...ironic though that he's the only member here with his own thread, yet probably has the least experience with FSU women out of any of us.

A few other posters from the UK just did trips to Russia very recently. I believe one is still there.  These guys were younger than Trench and had less income.  Yet they still did it. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on April 09, 2018, 05:02:09 AM
I picture Trench living in his Mom's basement.....spending his life on a keyboard with no life ( other than on RWD).

Might be his job ... GCHQ? 77 Brigade?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on April 09, 2018, 08:01:35 AM
The funny thing is Trench isn't even trying to being a troll.  He's just like that.  So it's pure unintentional comedy.  Well it's his life so he can do what he wants.


So if Trench doesn't follow everyone's advice he must be trolling??
Following others advice is not mandatory. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on April 09, 2018, 08:16:35 AM

So if Trench doesn't follow everyone's advice he must be trolling??
Following others advice is not mandatory.

troll:
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

That's Trench to a tee and this board is hooked!! It's kind of funny and sad those here that try to have a conversation/advise/correct anything Trench says.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 09, 2018, 09:13:30 AM
Guys all I have been trying to do here if find out about FSU dating. Some of the questions and statements may have been a bit wayward I will grant you that, but without asking or trying to work it out/give you my interpretation of it how am I or anyone starting this search supposed to know.

I think it is fair to say that during all of this a fair bit has been learn't by many that we didn't know before. What about cultural differences? Some guys keep banging away on this venture for years not learning that they keep hitting cultural differences that can set a previously loving couple against each other with both reacting and neither knowing why.

Some people are like 'hey you just go off and contact a load of women and voila' but this is kind of ignoring any stuff that may help you out a ton on this venture. On this board I think we should be aiming to help members & viewers increase their chances of a successful relationship with a FSW. I think we are now getting a better understanding of the ins & outs of it all to what we had back in the day from the likes of 2tallbill & billyb who have really been through it out there over the years. I kind of get the feeling that in the past a lot of relationships went south that could have gone the distance because of the lack of understanding out there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on April 09, 2018, 09:28:39 AM

That's Trench to a tee and this board is hooked!! It's kind of funny and sad those here that try to have a conversation/advise/correct anything Trench says.


If it bothers you then stop doing it.
Most of this forum is guys kicking around strategies and experiences to find out what works best for themselves. Good and bad plans can all be instructional. The conclusion of Trenches story will tell you how far off he is, not the journey.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 09, 2018, 10:42:27 AM
Guys all I have been trying to do here if find out about FSU dating.

Some people are like 'hey you just go off and contact a load of women and voila' but this is kind of ignoring any stuff that may help you out a ton on this venture.


Trench, it ain't that hard dude.  You are making it seem like culture plays a big part.  It doesn't.  I knew zero Russian, never met, talked or dated a Russian for my entire life until I got my first job in Russia and went over there a few years back.

Now I got many good Russian friends and life experience in Russia.   

You need to figure out now to deal with people in general, show some intelligence and humor.  If how you write here is an indication of how you write to women then I can tell what their reaction will be.

You going on another 1 or 2 week trip will mostly likely end up crashing and burning as usual.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 09, 2018, 10:45:55 AM

So if Trench doesn't follow everyone's advice he must be trolling??
Following others advice is not mandatory.

As I said it's his life, he can do what he wants.  But it's pretty clear he hasn't had any success whatsoever doing it his way.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 09, 2018, 11:30:54 AM
That one comes up so often, its not as easy as you think. Many of us have work commitments, then there is the cost. Each trip I estimate costs about £1k for a week - travel to & from airports, flight, hotel/apartment, car parking, travel money, eating out/buying food, entertainment if you wish, etc. A long weekend is almost pointless once travel time including to & from airport is taken off. To make a real good run off it the longer out there the better but that takes time to plan and money & time to hand. Also, while you could do it in the winter to be honest it is usually just unpleasant to be there in cold weather. That and as we have seen this winter the UK can grind to a halt when bad weather hits us. The summer the women are out in force in the streets with their goods laid bare, prime time for us there then :D

More Trench BS

Your costings do not reflect a typical planned trip from S.England to Kyiv, incl. flt, accommodation, food, etc.,

I used to do long weekends from Cyprus



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on April 09, 2018, 12:44:48 PM
Your costings do not reflect a typical planned trip from S.England to Kyiv, incl. flt, accommodation, food, etc.,

Disagree ... it all depends upon his departure airport and the airline fare. Kyiv tickets are more expensive this year on KLM, and a much cheaper option now is via Warsaw. Trenchcoat should break down his costs to show us how he has arrived at £1,000. I would estimate at least £750 for a week long trip, as everything is more expensive in Kyiv.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 09, 2018, 04:45:00 PM
Disagree ... it all depends upon his departure airport and the airline fare. Kyiv tickets are more expensive this year on KLM, and a much cheaper option now is via Warsaw. Trenchcoat should break down his costs to show us how he has arrived at £1,000. I would estimate at least £750 for a week long trip, as everything is more expensive in Kyiv.

Blighty

I checked before posting

I can fly to Kyiv for less than £100, find a decent genius level booking.com apt for less than £230 ...in June..

Now, unless you are budgeting on spending £100 A day...

Perhaps this is where Trench is going wrong...giving the wrong impression...





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on April 10, 2018, 02:57:59 AM
@msmob
Trenchcoat's £1K costings covered "travel to & from airports, flight, hotel/apartment, car parking, travel money, eating out/buying food, entertainment". Petrol and car parking at Luton Airport would raise his flight cost to about £250.

My wife describes Kyiv as "the place where foreigners get scammed", and so he may be over-paying for accommodation (at £300) and eating out/buying food/entertainment (at £200). Hence my ballpark figure of £750 for him.

He could have a budget of £250 to impress his latest woman with taxis, clothes, expensive restaurants, etc. It all depends on how he markets himself to the ladies! My wife and I are frugal by using the Kyiv metro (5 uah per journey), and only eating out once or twice a week.

Only Trenchcoat can answer this question for us.
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 10, 2018, 03:49:43 AM
Well I usually fly from either Gatwick or Heathrow as nearer my direction. Airport parking is about  £60, plus another £30 for petrol & £10 for eats/drunks on the way/at the airport - so £100 there. Flight to Kiev & hotel/apartment I usually get all in as slightly cheaper that way so about £400 for a week there with flights. The rest £300-500 approx for spending money while I'm there. It depends what you do, I could walk around seeing low cost attractions like cathedrals & sights for a few hgrivna or I could go to a decent nightclub etc that are usually more expensive. Using taxis all week can add up even at the cheaper prebooked rate. For some reason the two girls I have been with there just seemed to want to go the taxi route. Eating out seems to vary, first time was pretty cheap second time more expensive I think because of change/inflation in the economy. I never went to any really posh restaurants though just decent looking ones, the usual stuff. Then of course ant souvenirs for myself and those back home, cheaper stuff can be found by looking around by usually it costs a bit wherever.

If I was going there strictly on a mission to meet girls, particularly on a meet many and stripped down to just the essentials then I could probably do it all in for about £600-700 but whether I might be going too tight to enjoy the place is another matter.

If I'm with a girl I'm also going to be paying for her on visits & restaurants, I would still be paying for her on visit many for a drink or whatever at a cafe/restaurant but this is likely to be less expensive.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 10, 2018, 04:07:36 AM
@msmob
Trenchcoat's £1K costings covered "travel to & from airports, flight, hotel/apartment, car parking, travel money, eating out/buying food, entertainment". Petrol and car parking at Luton Airport would raise his flight cost to about £250.

My wife describes Kyiv as "the place where foreigners get scammed", and so he may be over-paying for accommodation (at £300) and eating out/buying food/entertainment (at £200). Hence my ballpark figure of £750 for him.

He could have a budget of £250 to impress his latest woman with taxis, clothes, expensive restaurants, etc. It all depends on how he markets himself to the ladies! My wife and I are frugal by using the Kyiv metro (5 uah per journey), and only eating out once or twice a week.

Only Trenchcoat can answer this question for us.
 

..and yet we have both tried?))

I am quite aware of his costs to and from the airport and one can get great deals if booking ahead.

As usual, Trench posts as if these costs are holding him back...and exaggerates



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 10, 2018, 04:47:00 AM
..and yet we have both tried?))

I am quite aware of his costs to and from the airport and one can get great deals if booking ahead.

As usual, Trench posts as if these costs are holding him back...and exaggerates

These costs are not holding me back, the question was 'because I live in UK which is nearer to Ukraine (than US, AUS, etc) then I could do this every weekend/frequent basis. I could do this more frequently yes, but I would have cr*p all in the bank if I did that. I am looking to go more in future but I also have work commitments at the moment in this country. The point of highlighting the near £1k for a week is that it is a cost that could mount up if doing it repeatedly. I know there are some guys on here that are immensely rich but we are all in a different circumstance. There are only so many filthy rich guys in the world, the rest of us are everyday guys with real life commitments and expenses. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 10, 2018, 05:14:29 AM
The point of highlighting the near £1k for a week is that it is a cost that could mount up if doing it repeatedly.

Trench, your 'costs' are bogus and this is not an enterprise for poor folk.

For those drawing salaries and needing to book holidays ..this venture is nigh on impossible ..unless you are a great salesman and hit your target by week 2

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 10, 2018, 05:49:09 AM
Trench, your 'costs' are bogus and this is not an enterprise for poor folk.

For those drawing salaries and needing to book holidays ..this venture is nigh on impossible ..unless you are a great salesman and hit your target by week 2

For once I think you are right Mobers, near impossible perhaps not but at least very difficult on a salary/holiday basis. It means you have to have a real good connection with a girl and build upon it within a short space of time, that can be a tall ask. After that you have to keep the relationship going as a long distance relationship when you get back home, oh and work, etc also. Long distance relationships can be a stress and require a fair amount of time input to keep going.

I'm not sure if it would work but faced with such a situation again I think I might either do a few short messages a night or say to girl to send a weekly message or two till we meet up again. Chatting to a girl who's English is good on Skype is fine but to a girl without good English I think I might say we won't Skype till we meet again as it can be just damn awkward and stressful trying to keep a conversion going on Skype with someone without good English, in person far less so I find.

Its generally why I wish to move to a situation where I have independent income as doing a 7 day'er or even a two week venture is often not really enough, many people have done it but its not an easy way to do it I think. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on April 10, 2018, 06:23:32 AM

I could go to a decent nightclub etc that are usually more expensive.

Using taxis all week can add up even at the cheaper prebooked rate. For some reason the two girls I have been with there just seemed to want to go the taxi route.

If I was going there strictly on a mission to meet girls
, particularly on a meet many and stripped down to just the essentials then I could probably do it all in for about £600-700 but whether I might be going too tight to enjoy the place is another matter.

If I'm with a girl I'm also going to be paying for her on visits & restaurants


Are you really seeking a life partner, or is it just a holiday adventure with clubbing?

Why do these women believe you have loadsamoney?

Tell them that you only use the Underground in London, and so will only use the Kyiv Metro! Don't allow them to dictate to you, as you are setting a precedent for the future.

All women are a potential Imelda Marcos in my opinion, and so manage their expectations! My wife enjoys window shopping with clothes, shoes, etc. but realises that we do not have loadsamoney. It is just common sense, and part of relationship building.

Put you profile on dmnotify.com, and complete the personality questions in your profile, and see who contacts you. You will need to recognise the genuine women from the gold-diggers. You must have experience of women chatting you up in the UK. Remember it is the 21st Century with free-thinking women, and you could be their match!



 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on April 10, 2018, 06:42:26 AM
As usual, Trench posts as if these costs are holding him back...and exaggerates

I understand where you are coming from on this subject.

He has now raised the subject of English level, which is just another excuse. My wife's English level is 'fair' but our chemistry overcomes that potential problem. She spends a few hours every day on her English with my help in order to improve her spoken English. Such problems can be easily overcome with the right attitude from both partners!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 10, 2018, 07:54:58 AM
Are you really seeking a life partner, or is it just a holiday adventure with clubbing?

Why do these women believe you have loadsamoney?

Tell them that you only use the Underground in London, and so will only use the Kyiv Metro! Don't allow them to dictate to you, as you are setting a precedent for the future.

All women are a potential Imelda Marcos in my opinion, and so manage their expectations! My wife enjoys window shopping with clothes, shoes, etc. but realises that we do not have loadsamoney. It is just common sense, and part of relationship building.

Put you profile on dmnotify.com, and complete the personality questions in your profile, and see who contacts you. You will need to recognise the genuine women from the gold-diggers. You must have experience of women chatting you up in the UK. Remember it is the 21st Century with free-thinking women, and you could be their match!

Honestly the first few times out there I didn't really know what to expect. Taxis were used because they were cheaper than in the UK and for convience, say something started at a particular time so to get it all in on a day or particularly on longer trips or the odd place towards the city limits it did not reach. You are right of course, I should have grounded the relationship on good footings early on by going on the tube, bus/tram, etc - I will certainly follow your advice by doing this in future. I think the first few times I was just eager to get out there and get stuff happening that I didn't want to mess things up. Now I know that by not keeping control of what is happening I messed things up. I think you are right potentially all women may go wrong if you handle them bad and they become accustomed to certain ways.

I did not deliberately put up anything that was leading the girl to think I had loads of money but there might have been one or two things where she might have read into it that I might have a lot of money. This I have now corrected and by being more aware I should be in better stead this time.

So this time I know about the scene in Ukraine so no need to do the holidaying thing. I enjoyed myself with it but it did not deliver as hoped on the relationship front. Without habing a real life experience to go with though there's not a lot to go on. This time I will be focusing on trying to find the right girl to have a relationship with.

I'm essence the moral of the story is even if your richer beyond your wildest dreams set off on a good foot by getting the girl accustomed to living by modest (but not uncomfortable/poor) means.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 10, 2018, 11:39:40 PM
For once I think you are right Mobers,

Well, then you have only just opened your eyes....!  Save cyberspace and revisit the advice you've been given in the past....it will save you money.

I'll bet that gets your attention.))
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on April 11, 2018, 12:15:04 AM
TC, a normal intelligent adult woman will
understand how to manage life on normal means.They also can ascertain your means fairly well without your input. It also won't be nearly as important as actual love forvyou developes.
Thats the bit that's something you  can't over think,manage, or control,you just have to meet adult women until it happens.
 (Its why viber is your friend to save you money, but you dont have time to save money)
Anyway 90% of your many  concerns are alleviated if you just meet adult established intelligent women.

Frankly,sorry, I don't think you've managed to date one yet,nor even tried to.

Over thinking everything, all the while being easily distracted by young fashonistas, is not a great method.
A common one,but seldom good long term.




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 11, 2018, 06:36:03 AM
TC, a normal intelligent adult woman will
understand how to manage life on normal means.They also can ascertain your means fairly well without your input. It also won't be nearly as important as actual love forvyou developes.
Thats the bit that's something you  can't over think,manage, or control,you just have to meet adult women until it happens.
 (Its why viber is your friend to save you money, but you dont have time to save money)
Anyway 90% of your many  concerns are alleviated if you just meet adult established intelligent women.

Frankly,sorry, I don't think you've managed to date one yet,nor even tried to.

Over thinking everything, all the while being easily distracted by young fashonistas, is not a great method.
A common one,but seldom good long term.


I know you are right, I have made this mistake in the past. Its not the glamorous often Photoshopped pics that draw my attention online, I actually prefer the down to earth, everyday photos of women that look attractive but gentle looking. The last girl kind of fitted this bill but she was model/fashionista like and because she contacted me and seemed interested I overlooked the fashionista element that I should have been more discerning over. I've moved on from that and the new women I will be more aware of problems such as those and keep far more on track this time. It is very useful though to really look into what went wrong to not make the same mistakes over again, but now I will be moving onto another attempt and hopefully get it right this time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 14, 2018, 02:17:12 PM
Women with kids adds another dimension that I've always regarded I can do without. Having to support kids from the word go & all the issues of them coming over with woman, fathers rights, etc not for me. Mobe I'm guessing is with his partner who's lids are probably already grown up and less of problem. I think it's fine for a guy in his fifties and older but a guy even in his forties probably has plenty of women in their thirties still without kids to chose from. Many get left on the shelf after their mid twenties for younger women while the men their age that are left often alcoholics.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 14, 2018, 03:20:50 PM
Women with kids adds another dimension that I've always regarded I can do without. Having to support kids from the word go & all the issues of them coming over with woman, fathers rights, etc not for me.

Now there's a surprise ( not)

Haven't you learnt ANY THING about women - let alone FSU women.  Many like a man who can father their kid(s) future or existing.  Your criteria simply cuts down your ( remote - sorry - it's your attitude ) chances

Mobe I'm guessing is with his partner who's lids are probably already grown up and less of problem.

'Problem' is not the adjective I associate with children


I think it's fine for a guy in his fifties and older but a guy even in his forties probably has plenty of women in their thirties still without kids to chose from. Many get left on the shelf after their mid twenties for younger women while the men their age that are left often alcoholics.

Trench, you talk utter hogwash... There are SO many FSU ladies in their late twenties / early thirties that are / were career girls and might appreciate a family orientated guy... You DO know that family can mean just you and her- as a unit in FSU speak ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 15, 2018, 12:05:07 AM
Trench, you talk utter hogwash...

Moby --his insensitive inappropriate comments aimed at you on numerous occasions illustrate what I said about him long ago ( & I note you repeated recently --ie "social misfit") that best describes him . He later attempted to explain away as being "humorous" --  but  it is part of his condescending lack of understanding of so many issues that he keeps on posting his truly stupid theories .
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 15, 2018, 12:48:58 AM
Moby --his insensitive inappropriate comments aimed at you on numerous occasions illustrate what I said about him long ago ( & I note you repeated recently --ie "social misfit") that best describes him . He later attempted to explain away as being "humorous" --  but  it is part of his condescending lack of understanding of so many issues that he keeps on posting his truly stupid theories .

let Trench do his thang...if he hits 50 and is still single he only has himself to blame for not listening here.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 16, 2018, 08:45:47 PM
Hey Trench, if you ever need a personal guide in Moscow.  I know a few single ladies there and can introduce you.  For a fee of course.  PM me if you are interested.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 17, 2018, 02:56:40 AM
Guys all I have been trying to do here if find out about FSU dating

Then find out and stop offering 'advice' !





Some people are like 'hey you just go off and contact a load of women and voila' but this is kind of ignoring any stuff that may help you out a ton on this venture.

I could credit you for doubting such daft advice, but you also ignore the try to video chat first suggestions, too!

Hey Trench, if you ever need a personal guide in Moscow.  I know a few single ladies there and can introduce you.  For a fee of course.  PM me if you are interested.

Given your inability  to post truthfully about what you have seen and where you have been and your ducking the question of your FSU g/f, I believe Trench might be better off trying to find his unique one.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2018, 10:05:56 AM
...and Trench
I think there are some on this board who think your attitude towards women doesn't seem to indicate that there's "a lot of caring" on your part of the relationship.
as in perhaps you are not willing to put into a relationship as much as you want to receive from it

maybe they are wrong, or maybe they are right
the only way to be sure, is for you to tell us!

so:
what do you think of women in general?
what qualities do you like in a woman?
do you think relationships should be balanced, as in if you're getting something from it, shouldn't you also be providing something?
can you explain what you provide in a relationship

OK, everyone give him a chance...
he might surprise you...
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 11:20:14 AM
...and Trench
I think there are some on this board who think your attitude towards women doesn't seem to indicate that there's "a lot of caring" on your part of the relationship.
as in perhaps you are not willing to put into a relationship as much as you want to receive from it

maybe they are wrong, or maybe they are right
the only way to be sure, is for you to tell us!

so:
what do you think of women in general?
what qualities do you like in a woman?
do you think relationships should be balanced, as in if you're getting something from it, shouldn't you also be providing something?
can you explain what you provide in a relationship

OK, everyone give him a chance...
he might surprise you...

I wish to be with someone where there is mutual love. If she is into me then me is what I am giving her and vice versa.

Like I said before I can provide to a certain extent will hopefully be getting better sorted on this front shortly - I am converting my house at present in my spare time. To be honest though I am not really into providing shopping sprees - extravagance for other half even if serious/married. It just feels too much like the other person is into me just because I will buy her stuff - she may or may not but I find it difficult to separate the two, and this is a turn off for me both mentally and sexually. For me it's too close to prostitute which I don't think I could ever do as I need to feel the girl is genuinely into me without thoughts that it's just/mainly the money or providing she is interested in.

Now I know a lot of FSW go on international dating sites as they are looking for better living conditions and/or a provider in with the bargain I accept this but I still need one that is into me. An extravant girl who wants me to buy her lots just goes too far I feel.

In all honesty beyond mutual love I don't think I really have anything to offer a FSW or anything I would wish to offer her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2018, 12:21:41 PM
no money, no honey...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 12:34:46 PM
no money, no honey...

How's that different to a prostitute?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on April 24, 2018, 12:51:31 PM
How's that different to a prostitute?

This encapsulates Trench's absolute lack of knowledge about how pursue to an FSUW.   The one thing that an FSU woman has to have, if she is to leave her home country for a distant land, is the knowledge that the man can provide for her.  They are constantly looking for signs that the man can or can't provide.  If the answer, in any way shape or form, is no, the deal is off and she will never think of you as her man.

It is because of the above response that I find it highly doubtful that any FSU woman would ever consider Trench their man.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 01:19:16 PM
This encapsulates Trench's absolute lack of knowledge about how pursue to an FSUW.   The one thing that an FSU woman has to have, if she is to leave her home country for a distant land, is the knowledge that the man can provide for her.  They are constantly looking for signs that the man can or can't provide.  If the answer, in any way shape or form, is no, the deal is off and she will never think of you as her man.

It is because of the above response that I find it highly doubtful that any FSU woman would ever consider Trench their man.

Yet another rich guy commenting Jone. I'm saying I can provide but not extravagantly. It all depends what you mean as 'providing'. Are we talking about a small but decent home done up and solely owned without mortgage & an everyday income most take home in the UK, US or wherever. Remember of course free health care etc in the UK. So talking about being able to keep other half fed & clothed (non fashion brand) and any kids.

Or are we talking a mansion, a big income, loads of money and being able to buy FSW all she ever dreamed off.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on April 24, 2018, 01:23:35 PM
In all honesty beyond mutual love I don't think I really have anything to offer a FSW or anything I would wish to offer her.

One of the best things I've heard you say. If you found a woman who loves you for yourself, you're in a much better position than someone who has attracted a woman with material things.

My Ex is a classic example, She's slim and attractive. The first thing she said to me about the guy she was having the last affair with, before I kicked her out was " he earns twice as much as you"  that's how he won her over, with his $$$.

They are now married. She married a bisexual man with a cocaine habit and a bad temper. He married a materialistic, serial cheating, binge drinking party girl who suffers from bipolar disorder. He over looked some pretty bad flaws to have an attractive woman and she took a risk for $$ not love and found he wasnt the man he presented him self as. Now they are stuck together with twins.... Ain't Karma a bitch  ;D

So the moral of this story is, if you live a modest lifestyle, or are more well off and don't use $$ to attract a woman, you will inevitably find a better quality woman, who loves you for who you are as a person and not what you can give her or what she can get out of you.

* Edit
After I read Stings reply, I agree. What i was trying to get at is, don't focus all the time on what you can give her in a material sense. While she needs to be comfortable, personally, energy and bringing excitement in her life is what makes a relationship successful.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 24, 2018, 01:48:57 PM


In all honesty beyond mutual love I don't think I really have anything to offer a FSW or anything I would wish to offer her.

well dude that's the problem right there!!  life needs to be exciting and fun. if you can't offer anything else then damn she's gonna get bored reaaaaal soon.  Remember this, you gotta live with her every day. If people get bored of talking to you on the forums then imagine how she's gonna feel...honestly man you need to change some things up.  Learn some new skills, how to hold a conversation, be interesting.

Don't spend too much time on the forums.  it's self perpetuating defeat...dude I just skyped with several girls on the weekend. As soon as I get to their cities we are meeting. get on it.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on April 24, 2018, 02:03:05 PM
Yet another rich guy commenting Jone. I'm saying I can provide but not extravagantly. It all depends what you mean as 'providing'. Are we talking about a small but decent home done up and solely owned without mortgage & an everyday income most take home in the UK, US or wherever. Remember of course free health care etc in the UK. So talking about being able to keep other half fed & clothed (non fashion brand) and any kids.

Or are we talking a mansion, a big income, loads of money and being able to buy FSW all she ever dreamed off.

No.  We're not immediately jumping to the word 'Prostitute' because a woman needs to feel secure in her new home. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 02:22:58 PM
No.  We're not immediately jumping to the word 'Prostitute' because a woman needs to feel secure in her new home.

I don't just mean new home but a big lavish home. Fine if she knew nothing of it prior to moving or late into the relationship. Otherwise she might just be putting out to get the exchange.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 02:27:14 PM
One of the best things I've heard you say. If you found a woman who loves you for yourself, you're in a much better position than someone who has attracted a woman with material things.

My Ex is a classic example, She's slim and attractive. The first thing she said to me about the guy she was having the last affair with, before I kicked her out was " he earns twice as much as you"  that's how he won her over, with his $$$.

They are now married. She married a bisexual man with a cocaine habit and a bad temper. He married a materialistic, serial cheating, binge drinking party girl who suffers from bipolar disorder. He over looked some pretty bad flaws to have an attractive woman and she took a risk for $$ not love and found he wasnt the man he presented him self as. Now they are stuck together with twins.... Ain't Karma a bitch  ;D

So the moral of this story is, if you live a modest lifestyle, or are more well off and don't use $$ to attract a woman, you will inevitably find a better quality woman, who loves you for who you are as a person and not what you can give her or what she can get out of you.

* Edit
After I read Stings reply, I agree. What i was trying to get at is, don't focus all the time on what you can give her in a material sense. While she needs to be comfortable, personally, energy and bringing excitement in her life is what makes a relationship successful.

I think so too Davo, I surprised even myself after I had a thoughtful reflection on it all. I think I'm just having a rare on day where stuff seems to be more night & day ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 24, 2018, 02:36:08 PM
I don't just mean new home but a big lavish home. Fine if she knew nothing of it prior to moving or late into the relationship. Otherwise she might just be putting out to get the exchange.

jone is not referring to a big home, or extravagant spending.  I believe he is referring to your general attitude, evident in the over 1500 posts here, and how it conflicts with what most FSUW are looking for.

You have stated you don't want your wife to work, because you want her to be available to you.  You also don't want her to become too independent.  You have stated if she wants clothing, make up and such, then she will have to work for those things, but it should be at a menial job, as any sort of career will interfere with what you desire in a marriage.  In essence, you have posted that your wife should (and I am paraphrasing), be available at your beck and call.

You have also posted you want your wife to wear short skirts, because it "turns you on". 

Everything you have posted in the past has been about what you want - your desires (physically), your way to live within a marriage (she has to cook and care for children, and be a housewife), your convenience.  So I don't believe all you are looking for is love.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 03:22:12 PM
jone is not referring to a big home, or extravagant spending.  I believe he is referring to your general attitude, evident in the over 1500 posts here, and how it conflicts with what most FSUW are looking for.

You have stated you don't want your wife to work, because you want her to be available to you.  You also don't want her to become too independent.  You have stated if she wants clothing, make up and such, then she will have to work for those things, but it should be at a menial job, as any sort of career will interfere with what you desire in a marriage.  In essence, you have posted that your wife should (and I am paraphrasing), be available at your beck and call.

You have also posted you want your wife to wear short skirts, because it "turns you on". 

Everything you have posted in the past has been about what you want - your desires (physically), your way to live within a marriage (she has to cook and care for children, and be a housewife), your convenience.  So I don't believe all you are looking for is love.

1500 posts! I've done that many :o Didn't realise I had done that many already, wow.

Well they were really more preferences. At a base level I really am just looking for looking for mutual love. I wouldn't reject a girl if I thought there was mutual love there. No doubt the girl has her preferences also but will set them aside if there is mutual love.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 24, 2018, 03:27:03 PM
Your answer proves what I have asserted above.  The woman must set aside what she wants for love.  What about you?  Are you willing to allow the woman you love to have a career?  Are you willing, for love, to finance her education?  To help her pursue interests she has that you may not share?  To send money home to her parents monthly?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 04:49:05 PM
Your answer proves what I have asserted above.  The woman must set aside what she wants for love.  What about you?  Are you willing to allow the woman you love to have a career?  Are you willing, for love, to finance her education?  To help her pursue interests she has that you may not share?  To send money home to her parents monthly?

Yes I would. The only one of those I would be not so keen on is finance her education - it would have to be a real big thing she always wanted and I would need to know that we have definitely mutual love reason being is that I think it can often become a problem in a relationship, particularly in the early stages. Hence why my preference would be for her to have children first & foremost as I believe in general it helps a relationship, for some it may not but for many I think it does.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2018, 04:49:57 PM
trench,

a prostitute is simple quid-pro-quo (could be more’n a quid, though) - money for sex!

in a marriage, the purpose of money is to create an environment to live in that doesn’t put stress on the marriage!

an analogy

in my backyard, I have planted trees, bushes, and a nice English garden
complete with bird/squirrel feeders bird baths and small fish pond
this allows my family to eat dinner on the back porch and watch the wildlife in the back yard
I am the steward/gardener of this, I tend to it every day
I am also the steward of my family, I tend to them daily as well
I create an environment for everyone to live in that doesn’t create any stress for anyone...
this is MY job
my payment?
the absolute love and total devotion of my wife and daughters and birds and squirrels, fish and frogs
would rather have that and be poor
then be the richest man ever, but not have it

does this help you to understand?

BTW, what kind of relationship do you want, do you want kids?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 24, 2018, 05:17:14 PM
Yes I would. The only one of those I would be not so keen on is finance her education - it would have to be a real big thing she always wanted and I would need to know that we have definitely mutual love reason being is that I think it can often become a problem in a relationship, particularly in the early stages.
If it is a problem, then you never had a relationship.

Quote
why my preference would be for her to have children first & foremost as I believe in general it helps a relationship, for some it may not but for many I think it does.
Your belief would be misguided.  After money, children are the most common source of conflict in a marriage, and a primary reason why couples divorce.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 24, 2018, 06:00:16 PM
1500 posts! I've done that many :o Didn't realise I had done that many already, wow.

Well they were really more preferences. At a base level I really am just looking for looking for mutual love. I wouldn't reject a girl if I thought there was mutual love there. No doubt the girl has her preferences also but will set them aside if there is mutual love.

1870 to be exact..hahaha  Dude, you keep talking about mutual love, remember people fall in and out of love real quick.  Especially if reality doesn't match the persona projected.  I'm guessing you've never had a fling before.  Or when a girl breaks up with you that you thought you loved and then it turns to anger fast.

You talk about wanting a Russian girl but you never tried to learn Russian, their culture, mentality. what if she starts cursing you out in her native language and you don't know how to respond.

Honestly what do you bring to the table for them.  You aren't financially set, you penny pinch too much. you don't live in London or a major city, but some small rural town no one wants to go to.  You don't travel often, don't speak their language, have no expertise in skills.  well damn if that isn't the life a girl would dream of sharing with a man!



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on April 24, 2018, 06:17:55 PM
Tranchcoat, It is hard to read all your drivel and dross. But I would note that you have some sort of fantasy of 'mutual love' and what it means. They are wrong and unhealthy

Some suggestions I would read and study from C. S. Lewis the book "The Four Loves" and if you want to delve deeper into relationships, love, and personal growth I would read M. Scott Pecks book "The Road Less Traveled".

I am curious what was the relationship like between your parents and how they raised and loved you?

My sense is your are describing a future relationship based on dependency and not nurturing.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on April 24, 2018, 06:38:37 PM
Trenchcoat I have to agree with others who say there's little chance of you finding a FSUW on the terms you want. Certainly not in a big city like Spb or Moscow. Maybe out in the country. At a minimum you have to learn some Russian or whatever her native tongue is, at least enough to be able to have a casual conversation and to understand the cursing.

The idea that a 25-35 FSUW is going to move to the UK and be only a housewife and mother is very dated. My wife and I know lots of professional women in Moscow in that age range, IMO there's no chance these women would marry a man under those conditions.

When my wife came to the US she had already made plans to upgrade her education and get a US degree, in her case a Msc (math). IMO this is something that any foreigner must do to succeed in life in the US. She started tutoring high school kids prior to starting grad school and worked through grad school even though I told her and she knew I could afford to pay for her degree. My wife took time off when the twins were born and then back to work when the kids were potty trained. Today, the twins are in school and my wife works full time earning, by herself, well above the US median household income. She wanted to earn her own money, to know she could succeed in the US.

Trenchcoat you've got to look at the situation from her POV, what about her future? What happens if you die? Or divorce and she has children to support? What happens in her old age and she has no pension either public or private, how does she survive? She has to know how to take care of herself without you in a new country, that means she needs an education and job skills to suit the UK marketplace. Maybe as a hairdresser or nurse or tax accountant or computer programmer or DCI on your local police force. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 24, 2018, 07:22:34 PM
Dave ( & others who think some of us pick on Trench)  --   the part you have missed in your post -- the example of your wife  is fairly similar to many other examples on forum of success stories ( & also some that have not been long term)   ie that she in essence created  self sufficiency --if it was ever needed.

Now in Trenchcoats case -- he sees the path that would achieve that for a future Mrs is fraught with danger for HIS investment in her --from guys in educational facilities ,in fact from ALL other men that he sees as "superior" to him ( which is ALL men !!)

He personifies the mob'er of a different era seeking  to  exploit an fsuw. No matter how often it gets said -- he will never  make any progress --because of his pathetic attitude and beliefs.  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on April 24, 2018, 07:36:58 PM
Dave ( & others who think some of us pick on Trench)  --   the part you have missed in your post -- the example of your wife  is fairly similar to many other examples on forum of success stories ( & also some that have not been long term)   ie that she in essence created  self sufficiency --if it was ever needed.

Now in Trenchcoats case -- he sees the path that would achieve that for a future Mrs is fraught with danger for HIS investment in her --from guys in educational facilities ,in fact from ALL other men that he sees as "superior" to him ( which is ALL men !!)

He personifies the mob'er of a different era seeking  to  exploit an fsuw. No matter how often it gets said -- he will never  make any progress --because of his pathetic attitude and beliefs.  :cluebat:

Jay I don't think you're picking on Trench if anything I think you, others and myself are going too easy on him. I was trying to explain reality to him and in the process I was simply being polite.

His attitude towards women is similar to something out of 19th century England where women were told their place was in the kitchen and bedroom. If he does find his dream woman she's likely to use him to get PR and then when his usefulness is over dump him. He doesn't seem able to understand how dating works either at home or internationally. If he can't date locally he is never going to be able to date in the FSU. That's reality.



 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 24, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
Jay I don't think you're picking on Trench if anything I think you, others and myself are going too easy on him. I was trying to explain reality to him and in the process I was simply being polite.

His attitude towards women is similar to something out of 19th century England where women were told their place was in the kitchen and bedroom. If he does find his dream woman she's likely to use him to get PR and then when his usefulness is over dump him. He doesn't seem able to understand how dating works either at home or internationally. If he can't date locally he is never going to be able to date in the FSU. That's reality.
Agree.

I called him a social misfit a very long time ago --  I and the few others who agreed with me at that time copped a lot of flack !!  Subsequently --poster after poster has tried to help & advise -- almost without exception they eventually reach the same conclusion.

The one major thing I take solace in is that FSUW will always be far too smart and tough for this guy to ever be able to inflict himself on a victim !  His only use would be as a mule --but even that is not what it used to be.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 08:43:22 PM
Ok, I'm seeing a lot of the scene now of what is going on here with a lot of the members here going to the FSU to find a woman. Now what I am about to say is probably going to upset a lot of members here but here I go. With the exception of 2tallbill, BillyB, and a few others I think there are a lot of forum members here that are with someone from the FSU who is with them because of their wealth. The women they are with are not actually into them they just hang around them, be with them, marry them even because they offer a very comfortable/wealthy lifestyle that they otherwise would not get. Hence why you get guys that travel to meet women and they can't tell if they are into them, because they are not they are just playing nice with them as they have wealth and they want to be with someone who has wealth and they know chances are they won't find a guy who they are both into and has wealth particularly as few guys actually visit.

So there are actually a lot of rich forum members on here living a lie, they carry on like their other half is so into them and they are successful dating over in the FSU but in fact they are with a girl that just panders up to them because they are a rich guy and it must be said that many of the members commenting at the moment on this board (and similarly the Brexit thread) that the extent of their wealth is becoming apparent - they are very wealthy indeed, perhaps in the top quarter of wealth in the country or near it.

We're not talking about any old joe's here that get up do a professional job and get paid decently for it but guys that are swimming in wealth and can afford to go jet setting away for extended periods of time who don't need to worry about money at all they are so wealthy.

I don't have that wealth nor am I looking for a sycophant of a woman that just wants to kiss up to me and put on a pleasant persona just to please me and be part of my wealth. I believe there are other guys around who also have everyday jobs & lives and wealth and look for a woman in the FSU who are really into them. Perhaps they are as 'misguided' as I am that they are going to find one there but like me they are going to try anyway.

I take one thing away from many of your posts and that is big cities like Moscow, St. Pete's probably even Kiev are not likely to turn up what I am looking for since the wealth that many of the women expect the guy to have there is rather a lot. I will focus my search in the more outlying areas I think and see if I can come across a decent woman along the way.     
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 08:50:59 PM
Trenchcoat you've got to look at the situation from her POV, what about her future? What happens if you die? Or divorce and she has children to support? What happens in her old age and she has no pension either public or private, how does she survive? She has to know how to take care of herself without you in a new country, that means she needs an education and job skills to suit the UK marketplace. Maybe as a hairdresser or nurse or tax accountant or computer programmer or DCI on your local police force.

This I accept is a valid point and something that needs addressing, I think a lot of it can be addressed in the UK without going overboard and I do offer the girl some fallback but yes it would need some going through. I think her having the ability to get at least a basic job is something that would best serve her interests just in case in the longer term. There is of course other family, etc but this would need some consideration. Real wealthy guys that are on here its not necessarily a problem IF they bother to sort her out on this front for the less wealthy here its something to plan out more with her once the relationship gets serious I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 24, 2018, 09:04:52 PM
Trench what the hell is all that BS you just wrote.  the jealousy is strong in this one.

You've been looking for almost 10 years right and are 40.  Get on it dude.  One thing to remember most small town girls barely speak a lick of English.  How are you gonna communicate with them?  Even in Moscow, more people are not conversational or have only basic English.

If you are rich why would you go to Russia or Ukraine to find a girl.  You'd just go to New York or LA, London, Monaco.  Tons of FSU or EE girls there. 



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 24, 2018, 09:27:52 PM
There’s a poll here somewhere on income levels. The men posting here over the years are overwhelmingly middle class. But as they are generally older, they will have more income.

You are far more likely to be scammed by one of those unsophisticated women from the boonies than from a city, at least in Ukraine.

As I have posted before, you need to work on yourself before you look for a spouse.  The attitudes you display are self defeating.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 10:25:06 PM
There’s a poll here somewhere on income levels. The men posting here over the years are overwhelmingly middle class. But as they are generally older, they will have more income.

You are far more likely to be scammed by one of those unsophisticated women from the boonies than from a city, at least in Ukraine.

As I have posted before, you need to work on yourself before you look for a spouse.  The attitudes you display are self defeating.

I remember that poll, as far as I recall most of the people like in everyday life earned a relatively modest everyday wage/salary. I would guess it is not the members that contribute here regularly but those who lurk in the background somewhat, probably knowing they are up against rich dudes here. I doubt that many of the main posters here aren't rich, some have pretty much said as much indirectly - Mobes for example doesn't have a salaried job and he certainly ain't unemployed on benefit, lol.

Though it may seem it in the above post I am not railing against those with a lot of wealth, if they have it then they have it and that's that. I am merely trying to get my head around what is really going on here in this dating process. I personally think I am more closer than ever to sussing this whole thing out. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2018, 10:29:42 PM
trench,

have you ever watched a nature documentary about “birds”. no not that that kind, actual birds?

female birds are plain, male bird have bright plumage to attract females
females also select males with vigor to create nest and supply food for young

this is built into our nature...

my wife loves me not just for the physical support I provide our family (but definitely a part, and she appreciates how hard I had to work to get to where I am now), but she also values the emotional support, hell man, I helped deliver our children...
what I consider my job to be in my family is to create an oasis of happiness for my wife and children, when I do that, I feel their happiness and it becomes mine...
being happy in part of a greater happiness is better than being happy by yourself...
honestly, this, and a house in the country with a garden, the opportunity to travel once in awhile...
what more do you really need?


BTW, were I still in Sevastopol, and after I properly “vetted” you, I would’ve fixed you up with a 40 yr old blond, ex-art teacher who ended up working for Ovir, think Barbarra Eden, she’d have loved to come live in the country with you, and she was a really passionate woman, who wouldv’e cooked you breakfast just wearing an apron!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2018, 10:32:11 PM
Trench what the hell is all that BS you just wrote.  the jealousy is strong in this one.

You've been looking for almost 10 years right and are 40.  Get on it dude.  One thing to remember most small town girls barely speak a lick of English.  How are you gonna communicate with them?  Even in Moscow, more people are not conversational or have only basic English.

If you are rich why would you go to Russia or Ukraine to find a girl.  You'd just go to New York or LA, London, Monaco.  Tons of FSU or EE girls there.

No, I'm not jealous as just said to Boethius it may look that way but I'm not bothered about wealth of others, but I need to know what's going down to know how to deal with it. If someone is coming from a wealthy background then they are coming to all of this FSU dating on different terms to me, I have no problem with that it is just a fact.

True enough on the language, big cities normally have more foreign speakers though as English has been taught in Schools in Ukraine most will have a spattering of English if they made any effort at all to pass their exams legitimately.

Sure, there are places where the super rich go then there are just the rich, I'm not saying there are no super rich here, some may just prefer a FSW to a gold digging girl that hangs out in Monaco, probably the FSW will be more likely to hang around long term even if wealth is the attraction.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 24, 2018, 10:35:50 PM
Krimster -- seriously --you could not have read the history of posts of this cretin. I am always wary of introducing anyone I know an I need to know a guy is decent before contemplating.
I would not introduce this tight fisted mean spirited guy to a dog I met in Sevastopol  -- and I mean a stray 4 legged dog!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2018, 10:52:31 PM
you'd be surprised at some of the success stories I've seen
but disasters outnumber success 3-1
in every endeavor, luck is a big part
he might get lucky...
or find someone who fits with him
the picture you're creating of trench
I have no idea if true or false
not for me to judge
but I will tell you this.
i've seen guys EXACTLY like you describe, I'd just call then "jerks"
end up with real queens, seriously...
as long as they're willing to go with girls their own age
because, it's Ukraine...




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 24, 2018, 10:57:45 PM
Trench what the hell is all that BS you just wrote.  the jealousy is strong in this one.
.  One thing to remember most small town girls barely speak a lick of English.  How are you gonna communicate with them?  Even in Moscow, more people are not conversational or have only basic English.
.

I have to comment on your notion and others here on "village" girls.
Over time I have seen a number of people use that as a description to an easier path for guys.
The reality is that many (maybe most)  leave villages for higher education -so gravitate to the major cities of the regional cities  .While their roots may be in a village somewhere --their lives move on --just as they do in western countries.

What I have seen of the more remote areas is not so different to the structure of living in Australia ,where distances are even similar to local larger  town and then regional cities.
Undoubtedly some do stay in original areas --but the chances of a guy getting an opening there would be seriously remote --  if compared to larger cities etc where it is easy to create interaction.
 A btw here -- last year  I visited a cemetery in a rural village, and was there again 2 weeks ago to visit .The nearby town seems to be populated by good looking people !My ladies grandparents came from  this area --and she often visited as a child and is familiar with the town -- but our presence was noted by seemingly everyone !  Some guy showing up in search of a hillbilly --mm -I don't think so !  Most likely result is he would get strung up by the .... by the local boys !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on April 24, 2018, 11:22:17 PM
This I accept is a valid point and something that needs addressing, I think a lot of it can be addressed in the UK without going overboard and I do offer the girl some fallback but yes it would need some going through. I think her having the ability to get at least a basic job is something that would best serve her interests just in case in the longer term. There is of course other family, etc but this would need some consideration. Real wealthy guys that are on here its not necessarily a problem IF they bother to sort her out on this front for the less wealthy here its something to plan out more with her once the relationship gets serious I think.

Trenchcoat you still don't understand. It's not your decision, none of it. It is solely her decision. Her decision on what education she needs and what job she wants. Sure you can offer some advice but if she wants to be an accountant and you say working as a cashier at Tesco is a good enough job for you that is wrong, very wrong.

When you're married your wife will want a say in how your house furnished and decorate, the house you bought and paid for. She'll want a new bed, even if you just bought one recently. Maybe she'll want to plant a garden or a pet or maybe she'll hate pets. Maybe she'll want to cook traditionally Russian dishes and she'll hate fish and chips, toad in the hole and other traditional UK food.

If the marriage results in children she'll want to teach them Russian and speak Russian to them at home. Invite her Russian speaking friends over for dinner. If your attitude is English only in your house. You're not likely to get to the baby making part of the marriage.

What about religion? It's making a revival in Russia thanks in large part to Putin. If she's religious are you going to go to church with her? What about trips home. It's a short, cheap flight from the UK to Russia. If her home is Moscow or nearby she could go home for a long weekend. If she's not working it will be on your dime.

Trenchcoat as I stated losing money to an ex is the least of your worries. Your life will change irrevocably if you marry a FSUW or any other woman.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 24, 2018, 11:48:34 PM
I have to comment on your notion and others here on "village" girls.
Over time I have seen a number of people use that as a description to an easier path for guys.
The reality is that many (maybe most)  leave villages for higher education -so gravitate to the major cities of the regional cities  .While their roots may be in a village somewhere --their lives move on --just as they do in western countries.


JayH, it wasn't my notion. I know the reality. It's Trench's perception that village girls are easier.

I have lived in both Moscow and a smaller "town" in Russia.   Moscow was far easier to meet women.  Basically if you don't speak fluent Russian you will have a very slim chance with a village girl, unless she has pre-determined to meet and marry an English speaking foreign guy.  Very few people in small towns speak even basic conversational English.  Young people perhaps a few phrases for small talk but that's it.

And you're right, many people migrate to Moscow for work.  I would say 35-40% of the girls I met were born in another city.  And in general their level of English is far higher.

But Trench would have zero success with these girls.  All work in white collar office jobs, don't conform to his outdated views and basically would shoo him away in an instant.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 24, 2018, 11:50:53 PM
Krimster -- seriously --you could not have read the history of posts of this cretin. I am always wary of introducing anyone I know an I need to know a guy is decent before contemplating.
I would not introduce this tight fisted mean spirited guy to a dog I met in Sevastopol  -- and I mean a stray 4 legged dog!!!

HAHAHAHHA...well, I saw a few babushkas at the metro who looked lonely.  But they are past child bearing age.  And even then I think Trench would annoy the them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 25, 2018, 12:06:23 AM
Trench you are too hung up on the money aspect.  Honestly if money is all you are offering women will lose interest REAL fast. Or fake it until they have your money and then take off. 

Stop worrying about whether all the other guys here are rich or not.  Work on everything else.  You seem to think there's some secret formula.  In all honesty you will have zero success the way you are doing it now.  You're better off selling your house and moving to Ukraine or Russia for a year, learn the language, talk to as many women as you can, and hone your social skills.  You can't even pick up a girl at your local pub!! 

I'll tell you one thing.  Just being a foreigner and native English speaker in Moscow isn't enough to attract girls anymore. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on April 25, 2018, 12:28:08 AM
  Most likely result is he would get strung up by the .... by the local boys !

I had to chuckle.... I grew up in a small town on the edge of the Nullarbor. I had 6 girls in my senior class at school, so any mildly attractive woman was in high demand. The local men were pretty territorial of outsiders hitting on the local girls, even more than them trying to surf our waves, which got violent occasionally. I can imagine small town Ukrainian / Russian lads would be even more hardcore ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 25, 2018, 02:35:37 AM
I have lived in both Moscow and a smaller "town" in Russia.   Moscow was far easier to meet women.  Basically if you don't speak fluent Russian you will have a very slim chance with a village girl, unless she has pre-determined to meet and marry an English speaking foreign guy.  Very few people in small towns speak even basic conversational English.  Young people perhaps a few phrases for small talk but that's it.

It's not just small towns.  My first visit was to meet a lady in a city called Naberezhnye Chelny, about 900 km east of Moscow.  This is a pretty big city (population 600,000+) and, outside the University trip I've mentioned in the past, and the staff in the lady's agency, I came across just ONE English speaker in the entire time I was there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 25, 2018, 04:04:24 AM
It's not just small towns.  My first visit was to meet a lady in a city called Naberezhnye Chelny, about 900 km east of Moscow.  This is a pretty big city (population 600,000+) and, outside the University trip I've mentioned in the past, and the staff in the lady's agency, I came across just ONE English speaker in the entire time I was there.

When were you there?  Had to look up that city, never even heard of it!  The way they teach English in Russia is still very archaic, probably like how we learn French or Spanish in North America.  It's taught by Russian teachers who probably speak it poorly themselves. 

The younger people have an advantage with the internet, now English audio/video material is easily accessible.  I met some Russians who had excellent English in Moscow.

The problem with Trench is he is so backwards thinking.  He won't find any girls in a small town.  What's the appeal of them going to some no name town in the UK.  Especially if he's barely middle class income level himself.  Not like their life will be much better.  They will be isolated without family or friends. 



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2018, 07:57:47 AM
Trench,

it’s interesting to see how difficult it is to communicate something that’s actually pretty simple, not “blaming” either party, just how hard it is to explain...

I think I see two separate issues here;

one is purely financial, assuming you want to start a family, people on the forum are questioning if you really have enough resources to do it properly? 

obviously plenty of poor people get married and have children, but they end up having “a struggle” 

women in Ukraine are already “having a struggle” they want to stop having this, and have a “non-struggle” existence rather than just a different struggle in a new place!

this is why I feel I was wildly successful in Ukraine.
because I understood what these women wanted...
a knight in shining armor to come rescue them, shower them with jewels and expensive clothes and take them to go live in a far away land in a castle...
(and I could deliver an approximation of this fantasy)
this, plus having a family with the fantasy are pretty much the only things most women “dream” about in Ukraine...

how would you fit into that? see the problem?

a second issue is what some are labeling “misogyny”, as in you’re anti-woman
that you have some negative feelings towards women
I think it’s because you are very sensitive, and more than one woman has broken your heart before, and this has made you cynical...

but these negative emotions won’t allow you to be the kind of person you need to be
in order to love and be loved
can you see what I’m trying to tell you?

it really is hard to communicate something like this
my words have fled like mice before a cat

so Trench, for you

1. find out what a woman wants
2. if you are able, give it to her

that’s it man



my advice, be honest with the women you meet, otherwise you set them to up to be disappointed with false expectations that will be dashed - fatal!
if you look at women 35-40, you can still find PLENTY of beautiful and sexy women in this age, and BTW women in this age group have almost zero dating opportunities in Ukraine, cuz guys their age are dating devs 10 yr younger





 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 25, 2018, 08:06:35 AM
The guy does not want a family, does not want a girl with a child, prefers a Virgin, etc etc - -  you getting the picture yet?   Oh - - and he considers a 40yo is too old for him. And, all this from an immature guy who is a dull conservative old in the head fuddy duddy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2018, 08:14:41 AM
oh my!  :o

Trench, are these allegations about you true?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2018, 08:47:09 AM
maybe trench is a rocker
and the rest of us are mods

diana rigg/mrs peel
vrs
mary from gilligan's island

for me a particularly tough choice
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2018, 09:02:46 AM
thriftiness
stinginess

trench,
because of how similar these two concepts are, maybe not the best choice for you to emphasize...

how many previous long-term relationships did you have ?
why do you think your past relationships didn’t work out
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 25, 2018, 09:12:51 AM
oh my!  :o

Trench, are these allegations about you true?

Like I said earlier-- you need to read some of his ludicrous,condacending,offensive ignorance before you condemn his critics. :shock: :whew: :trainwreck:

Stingy --he was going to take his own food from Tesco with him to Ukraine --to save a buck!
He will not date locally  and girls will note date him because he wants to go dutch !
Relationship --he classifies a girl in Nikolaev who fled before she finished her coffee as a relationship !!
You want more? All his own work !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on April 25, 2018, 09:54:22 AM
Quote from: Trenchcoa
We[re not talking about any old joe's here that get up do a professional job and get paid decently for it but guys that are swimming in wealth and can afford to go jet setting away for extended periods of time who don't need to worry about money at all they are so wealthy.

Stop fretting others.
All you need to do is worry about yourself and who you are dating.


If looking for positive examples,  there are several on the board.
While you should already know it's possible,
How many positive examples would you need to console you ?
1? 150?

How many negative to make you rethink or be afraid to dive in?
1? 150?


I'm certainly not wealthy.
I've had some fantastic jobs that I enjoyed and allowed travel, and some unique experiences,but never any huge money,nor did I truly care.

That career basically morphed over the years but was still quite interesting.
In 2014 in basically ended and I dint have a contract or prospect for the first time in my life.
I started doing one of the most basic of jobs simply to stay busy and keep a steady
income. I do still dabble in my old field .
My wife knew I was stressed and that of course leaving what I had been passionate about for so many decades was tough.
Never a flinch, just said she'd go to work and we could buy a small inexpensive home or rent an apartment if need be , no problems dont stress at all. She has not needed to do that,  we are doing decent financially but certainly not wealthy .

You have the cart in front of the horse.
Concentrate on finding and loving a person you would give everything for,  and who  feels the same for you.
None of the other materialistic stuff matters.

It cracks me up when I read money issues are a primary cause of divorce.
I dont feel this is remotely true.
There are very few cases were either party is truly any worse off together than apart.
So while disagreements about money can be an issue,the actual finances are only a visable thing that reflects a couple that can't communicate well ,can't compromise well, dont truly love each other. And are incompatible at the root.
Finances are not the base problem.


We have never fought about money and never will.

I'm currently a truck driver TC.
Not sure you can get anymore basic or blue collar than that?
My wife would walk to the ends of the earth for me , we have been thru serious health issues,  me losing not only a job,but my career. Long separations, from my work  deaths of friends and family.
But also all the positive and great things in life together. It's a partnership at all levels.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2018, 01:18:46 PM
if you're on her home turf, you have the paranoia factor, "what if the neighbors see me, blah, blah..."
plus not a fun time for her, just another day at home, vrs being some place new and more exciting ...

trench

a woman wants to be swept off her feet, you ALWAYS make the grand gesture...

trench,
are you a cynic about love?
did someone break your heart once?
more than once?

Well I wouldn't worry about her neighbours seeing me, so let them see.

I don't really see the point in grand gestures to try to sweep her off her feet. If she's into me she's into me and no grand gestures needed, the chemistry does the work. If she's not then no grand gestures on the world will help at least not long term. Been there, done the invite girl to Kiev thing but found that it tends not to be a good thing relationship wise. Not as bad as taking her on a foreign holiday too early on but still better to see her in her home town I think.

I think Mobers does have a valid point about getting to the smaller cities away from airports etc, while feasible it's not that easy for a newbie to navigate. I would still not find it a joy. Would recommend Google translate app on phone to help out with traveller translation needs. Like said one before though easy for guys well versed in the FSU to just say go here or there and make it sound straight forward but it is not always so once in that situation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2018, 01:21:35 PM
Well I wouldn't worry about her neighbours seeing me, so let them see.

This is your problem.  It's not all about you.

Quote
I don't really see the point in grand gestures to try to sweep her off her feet. If she's into me she's into me and no grand gestures needed, the chemistry does the work. If she's not then no grand gestures on the world will help at least not long term. Been there, done the invite girl to Kiev thing but found that it tends not to be a good thing relationship wise. Not as bad as taking her on a foreign holiday too early on but still better to see her in her home town I think.

You didn't have a relationship.  The fact you believe inviting a girl to Kyiv is some sort of grand gesture on your part is also a problem.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 25, 2018, 02:05:08 PM
This is your problem.  It's not all about you.

You didn't have a relationship.  The fact you believe inviting a girl to Kyiv is some sort of grand gesture on your part is also a problem.

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: I'm sorry, this is just tooo much even for you Trench, wtf kind of piss poor life do you think these women live? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2018, 02:16:15 PM
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: I'm sorry, this is just tooo much even for you Trench, wtf kind of piss poor life do you think these women live?

Funny as both women I invited to Kiev I had to help out with train fare and also paid for all accommodation cost. Apparently, both were on low paid jobs about £100 a month if that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2018, 02:31:40 PM
(http://www.emoticonr.com/design/yahoo/sigh.gif)You still don't get it.  Helping out with cash does not equate to a grand romantic gesture on your part.  Paying for their trips was the default.  They would not be making the trips were it not for you.

You want to know a "grand romantic gesture"?  My FIL lived about 150 m from my MIL.  Every day, on his way home from school (he was a teen), he would tie a bunch of flowers to her door.

An even grander romantic gesture - I knew a couple who emigrated here from Germany, where they were in a displaced persons camp.  Every morning, the husband would rise early and go to an open field, where he would pick a bunch of flowers, return, and place them at his wife's bedside, so she would wake up to the scent of freshly cut flowers, one of the few pleasant things in their day.  He did this every day for five years.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 25, 2018, 02:35:21 PM
Funny as both women I invited to Kiev I had to help out with train fare and also paid for all accommodation cost. Apparently, both were on low paid jobs about £100 a month if that.

Yes as would be expected of a (gentle)man who wanted to meet/date them..
but now I was talking about your view on the matter as a "grand gesture"

you know little or none about the culture if you think that was a "grand gesture" in any way, form or shape.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 25, 2018, 02:41:30 PM
Like I said earlier-- you need to read some of his ludicrous,condacending,offensive ignorance before you condemn his critics. :shock: :whew: :trainwreck:

Stingy --he was going to take his own food from Tesco with him to Ukraine --to save a buck!
He will not date locally  and girls will note date him because he wants to go dutch !
Relationship --he classifies a girl in Nikolaev who fled before she finished her coffee as a relationship !!
You want more? All his own work !

hahahaah...i gotta find these stories, damn that's cheap!!  you can tell he's hung up on money. that's basically all he talks about.  "guys on here are all rich, that's why they get the girls".... one girl used him as a credit card and kicked him out after from what I recall.

Trench you never talk about the other qualities as a man that makes women attracted to a guy.  You need to build those skills up.  The guys here are right, any woman who takes you in now is a co-dependant and that relationship is gonna end in a train wreck.  Cause you ain't got no foundation brah.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 25, 2018, 02:47:01 PM
(http://www.emoticonr.com/design/yahoo/sigh.gif)You still don't get it.  Helping out with cash does not equate to a grand romantic gesture on your part.  Paying for their trips was the default.  They would not be making the trips were it not for you.

You want to know a "grand romantic gesture"?  My FIL lived about 150 m from my MIL.  Every day, on his way home from school (he was a teen), he would tie a bunch of flowers to her door.

An even grander romantic gesture - I knew a couple who emigrated here from Germany, where they were in a displaced persons camp.  Every morning, the husband would rise early and go to an open field, where he would pick a bunch of flowers, return, and place them at his wife's bedside, so she would wake up to the scent of freshly cut flowers, one of the few pleasant things in their day.  He did this every day for five years.
talking about a "grand gesture"..

One of my many female friends lived in Sochi, or rather Adler to be exact, when she attended university in St Pete she had a male admirer, on a break from school she went home and got a nasty old, so she stayed at home being sick the following week, this young man took a plane from St Pete to Adler and delivered a big bouquet of roses together with some books from school so she could study at home for a test, stayed for about an hour drinking some tea before flying back to St Pete.
To afford it, he had sold of his guitar and pawned his watch (a family heirloom)
Every time we talked (me and this female friend) about flowers she always got thinking about this and her eyes would tear up...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2018, 03:01:38 PM
That is a very romantic gesture. 


Did they end up together?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2018, 03:03:02 PM
I also want to state that I think krimster is sincerely trying to help Trench, and it often seems we are all ganging up on Trench. 

Personally, I don't wish Trench ill will, but I think his attitude is self defeating, and he will attract exactly what he is trying to avoid, because his mentality is one of "scammer".
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 25, 2018, 03:15:07 PM
That is a very romantic gesture. 


Did they end up together?

No, as I understood it they drifted apart after University, he got a job somewhere in Siberia and she had still 2 more years in St Pete before graduation. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 25, 2018, 03:19:28 PM
Trench doesn't need help. He doesn't listen to people.  I told him to get on Skype or video chat with girls.  he made some excuse about not having "chemistry".
Dude is clueless when it comes to dating.  I highly doubt even at his age 40 he's had a serious relationship or he was probably dumped by some girl and has never recovered.

The dude can't even afford to take a 1 month vacation to Moscow and hit the streets. Flights from London are about a few hundred if you book in advance. Far cheaper than from anywhere in North America.  He could have made several trips by now. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2018, 03:21:08 PM
I don't think that the issue is one of affordability.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 25, 2018, 03:25:15 PM
then what? all he talks about is money and how he won't pay for anything for the girl. he can't take time off work, gotta save up.  nothing else stopping him.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2018, 03:27:51 PM
"Well I wouldn't worry about her neighbours seeing me, so let them see."

gozpedy!
not about YOU dude!
you need to start thinking from HER stand-point, and there may be a TON of reasons why she wouldn't want neighbors/relatives to see her with you, not least of which will be the major gossip it will create, it's this kinda place, paranoia that you can avoid by being anonymous in another place...
A Russian woman must maintain her public dignity, ESPECIALLY if she's going to sleep with a foreigner, she will be VERY concerned about how those around her perceive her, and if things "don't work out" she will face humiliation,etc...  terrifyin' stuff for a Russian woman...

Trench, serious question for you, please don't be upset by my asking, it's out of concern, are you "on the spectrum?"  do you know what that means?





 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2018, 03:29:27 PM
gozpedy!
not about YOU dude!
you need to start thinking from HER stand-point, and there may be a TON of reasons why she wouldn't want neighbors/relatives to see her with you, not least of which will be the major gossip it will create, it's this kinda place, paranoia that you can avoid by being anonymous in another place...
A Russian woman must maintain her public dignity, ESPECIALLY if she's going to sleep with a foreigner, she will be VERY concerned about how those around her perceive her, and if things "don't work out" she will face humiliation,etc...  terrifyin' stuff for a Russian woman...

Trench has been told the above.  Many, many times.


To be fair, some posters have told him he should meet women in their cities.  But he does dismiss the concerns you have raised.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 25, 2018, 03:37:25 PM
then what? all he talks about is money and how he won't pay for anything for the girl. he can't take time off work, gotta save up.  nothing else stopping him.

After all that he has written and the huge amount of time he seems to have to spend here rambling nonsense day after day, I think it is as simple as his "self confidence" or lack thereof.
Somewhere deep down, he knows he will not succeed with this and he will turn out to be yet another keyboard romeo with a dream he never will achieve.
That is why he don't go, the high - almost certain - probability of failure
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 25, 2018, 03:40:00 PM

Trench, serious question for you, please don't be upset by my asking, it's out of concern, are you "on the spectrum?"  do you know what that means?

hahahaha man I loled...He certainly has traits that would lead you to believe so.  But he could also just be a sheltered, clueless guy.  One wrapped up in some fantasy.
I mean look, the dude can't even go to his local pub and chat up women there.  I told him to but he flat out refused.

I told him there's tons of FSU women in London and to meet them.  He didn't bother.  Odds are 5 or 10 years from now he'll still be posting here looking for a girl when everyone else is gone. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2018, 03:50:07 PM
BO'
my recommendation is to NOT initially meet in her home town for reasons above
and only go to the home town if things "work out", but only if invited
for example, many people may feel their apartment is adequate to show a 'foreigner'
and may be reluctant
I suggest proposing to your GF a choice
either you go to her home town
or she comes to nearest big city
and let HER decide...

if she's to come to the big city, YOU must take charge of this, for example rent a car and driver at the airport
and pick her up near her house and go together to the "big city"

you must be a MAN if you want to woo a Russian WOMAN
otherwise she will think you are a "loser"

you never get a second chance to make a first impression, so why not make a really good one!!!






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 25, 2018, 04:00:36 PM
"Well I wouldn't worry about her neighbours seeing me, so let them see."

gozpedy!
not about YOU dude!
you need to start thinking from HER stand-point, and there may be a TON of reasons why she wouldn't want neighbors/relatives to see her with you, not least of which will be the major gossip it will create, it's this kinda place, paranoia that you can avoid by being anonymous in another place...
A Russian woman must maintain her public dignity, ESPECIALLY if she's going to sleep with a foreigner, she will be VERY concerned about how those around her perceive her, and if things "don't work out" she will face humiliation,etc...  terrifyin' stuff for a Russian woman...

Trench, serious question for you, please don't be upset by my asking, it's out of concern, are you "on the spectrum?"  do you know what that means?

We are apparently all at some point on the spectrum, lol, but no I am not autistic or aspergers.

Yes I know some women have hang ups over it but I would prefer to meet one who doesn't. Otherwise how do I know it's not a cover for something else. How little of her life do I actually get to see if I never see her home town. Would I ever see it, if so when 10, 15 or 20 years from now?

I'm not female so it's not easy thinking how they would think and feel. Generally I guess I only think like a male and I think most males are similar some maybe able to envisage how a female feels but not many I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2018, 04:03:59 PM
"hahahaha man I loled."

sting,
a person trapped in their loneliness
cut off from all other people
why is that funny?

whether on the spectrum or not
I see a person trapped in their loneliness
for reasons they don't understand

you feel scorn
I feel sympathy

maybe we can help Trench look at himself and help him emerge from the trap he's in?

how 'bout it Trench

let's go back in time, Trench, back, back, back....

Your first sexual experience!
Tell us about it!!!

I want to hear all the details, the color of her hair and eyes, what was her skin like when you touched it
what did you feel when you kissed her for the first time
say her name outloud, describe her...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on April 25, 2018, 04:20:53 PM

Trench, serious question for you, please don't be upset by my asking, it's out of concern, are you "on the spectrum?"  do you know what that means?
Yep he absolutely is.

This is what I wrote about trench last fall, and his posts since then only strengthened my assertion.

Forget women, he is not capable of a meaningful relationship of ANY kind.

"Looking at the way TC posts together with his relationship history, it all makes sense. I have a persistent feeling that not only is he incompetent socially with women, but all of his reactions/thoughts/logic are just off. He seems to be thinking, operating and reacting outside of the range of where a neurotypical person would land.

Of the many personages on RWD, there are very few that I like, but all the others seem to fit into a natural variety within a neurotypical spectrum. TC is just out. He probably does not really have friends and is not capable of forming a meaningful relationship of any kind. He is looking for an FSUW because he has some physiological needs, but not really a need for companionship or friendship.

I have seen this same pattern/way of thinking A LOT in people on the autism spectrum, adults and children alike. Just this weekend I went to a Halloween party with my kids and one of the boys was somewhat the same: all of his social reactions and attempts were landing outside of every other kid's range. They all started to avoid him by the end of the day. It is sad and not his fault, but he is unlikely to ever have a meaningful friendship. It is like a different species of homo sapiens.

In short, I think TC is an Aspie, albeit very high functioning and perhaps undiagnosed, but nevertheless. He might end up in a short marriage with an FSUW, but only until she is able to communicate well, or gets the UK citizenship. Whichever comes first.

P.S I am not a neurologist but happen to have read/know a ot/communicated a ton about ASD and within the ASD community. "
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2018, 04:55:22 PM
trench

you see how I outlined above how your general behavior needs to be that you put the needs of those whom you love above your own?

you are the good shepherd, who must faithfully tend his flock...
this is your main job, everything else you do relates to that
your happiness is watching your wife’ and children’s faces
on christmas morning and every morning
living things thrive but only under the right conditions
every day you must pay attention, add a little more of this, a little less of that...

you have to give to receive so why be stingy?

Pitbull,
what are the odds that someone who is not a neurobiologist and someone who IS an AI scientist run into each other on RWD?

I once created software that “drew” the connectome of Drosophila, from many thousands of sectioned histological slides, found 53 “behavior centers”, 250,000 individual neurons
a bi-cameral brain with visual lobes all the size of a grain of sand, and is roughly equal to our most powerful PC with state of the art video card!

today, among other things I create visual prothesis for the blind and visually impaired

weren’t you one of those “eta maya rodina” kinda chelloveck?
now mine is starting to look like yours, but we will be free of Trump before Russia is free of Putin
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 25, 2018, 05:27:51 PM
krimster, I tried to give Trench advice.  He didn't listen. He won't listen to you or anyone else but wallow in his sorrow.

He complains about the feminists in the UK, lack of money, how he won't support a girl, how he needs "chemistry", how Skype and messaging is useless, how he doesn't like winter, cold weather in Russia or Ukraine, how once a girl comes to the UK she'll leave him at the first chance....and on and on...

All your flowery prose about being a good shepherd and tending flock will go straight over his head.

He wrote that he wanted to check out Poland because the girls there have "bigger boobs" if I recall.  He's like a teenager who just hit puberty.

It's admirable that you are trying to help him but ultimately a lost cause.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on April 25, 2018, 05:39:27 PM
krimster, I tried to give Trench advice.  He didn't listen. He won't listen to you or anyone else but wallow in his sorrow.

It's admirable that you are trying to help him but ultimately a lost cause.

It is like helping the helpless. The reality is that the suggestions and comments only can educate the lurkers.

Some suggested the TrenchCoat perhaps is afflicted with Aspergers and this is very real possibility in my opinion.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2018, 06:08:23 PM
"Poland because the girls there have "bigger boobs""

a rumor that has absolutely no basis in reality
Polish Women are OK though
but you will have better chance for success in Ukraine/Moldova/Belarus
because a westerner is just more valuable there than in Poland which is is in the EU obviously
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 25, 2018, 09:15:10 PM
Well, this is how Trench thinks.  he's got no plan or foresight into what he's doing.  he talked about going to Russia then gave it up as soon as he found out you need a visa.  and you're right Poland has EU status so why the hell would any Polish girl need him. 

krimster you are well intentioned but sometimes a man's just gotta learn through life and his mistakes.  I just hope Trench ain't 50 by the time he's figured it out.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 26, 2018, 06:58:51 AM
We are apparently all at some point on the spectrum, lol, but no I am not autistic or suffering from Asperger's.

Fixed that for you...


He's defo not on the spectrum, as I see ZIP off the scale abilities in his posts - other than a total inability to read, properly - other than what he wants to hear / see ;)






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2018, 11:23:39 AM
A girl wants to date a western guy but he is 'intruding' in her life if he wants to visit her home town?

Would sound to me like the girl is either unrealistic in what a relationship entails or she doesn't think that much of the guy.

The better half was in Kyiv not long ago.  A neighbour looking for a foreign husband (first marriage failed, no children) was mocked as an "American mattress".  Why?  She'd met a grand total of two foreign men, and had been seen by a neighbour with at least one of them in the centre of the city.

Yes, you are intruding, because at the point of meeting, or even dating, you are no one to her, just as she is no one to you.  The fact you don't get this suggests you are not thinking of anyone but you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 26, 2018, 11:31:50 AM
trench.. I have posted this before and I'll do you a favor by doing it again, try and UNDERSTAND what it illustrates this time..

(http://i.imgur.com/0IOIzJo.jpg)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2018, 11:40:01 AM
I will also add that Trench has posted he is looking for a woman who is "more traditional" and not a Western feminist.  Yet despite this, he is imposing his Western values on these "traditional" women, and ignoring the traditional attitudes of their culture.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 12:15:49 PM
The better half was in Kyiv not long ago.  A neighbour looking for a foreign husband (first marriage failed, no children) was mocked as an "American mattress".  Why?  She'd met a grand total of two foreign men, and had been seen by a neighbour with at least one of them in the centre of the city.

Yes, you are intruding, because at the point of meeting, or even dating, you are no one to her, just as she is no one to you.  The fact you don't get this suggests you are not thinking of anyone but you.

Sure ok I accept this then, but does the same not also apply that woman wanting to meet a man in his home city may be intruding on his life?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2018, 12:21:23 PM
Don't be daft.  Nobody in the West cares about such things. 


If this is such an issue for you, then find a Western woman, for whom such things generally are a non issue.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 26, 2018, 12:24:37 PM
Sure ok I accept this then, but does the same not also apply that woman wanting to meet a man in his home city may be intruding on his life?
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/639/561/0ff.png)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 12:28:58 PM
Fixed that for you...


He's defo not on the spectrum, as I see ZIP off the scale abilities in his posts - other than a total inability to read, properly - other than what he wants to hear / see ;)

Cheers Mobers ;) Never thought you would be one to support me in such a discussion :D

I've looked up about the spectrum & Aspergers etc on the internet before as you hear about a lot if it these days. Something to do with people not reckonising obvious social cues and social boundaries,  appropriate social responses, etc though cases seemed to vary and even some doctors were not sure of what constitutes a dianosis or could diagnose. Some speculate that some people that state they have Aspergers make it up but to be honest I'm not even sure what if is. Some people I have met who are supposed to have Aspergers seemed normal & social enough to me with no obviouslyrics odd tenancies though of course I did/do not know them in depth.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 12:31:51 PM
Don't be daft.  Nobody in the West cares about such things. 


If this is such an issue for you, then find a Western woman, for whom such things generally are a non issue.

I guessing there a non issue for East European men also. Huh, seems like us men must dance to the lady's tune at all times.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
Why are you looking in a traditional society if you are not willing to play by a traditional society's rules??
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2018, 01:01:13 PM
I will also add, you must have a certain flexibility when married to someone from a different culture.  There are going to be misunderstandings, and differences in some ways you approach things, particularly when it comes to raising children.  I encountered these things, and I know the culture, speak the language, understand most of the cultural cues, and am married to a man who is, for the most part, flexible in terms of culture.

If you cannot even compromise on this issue. let alone understand it (which you don't), which is a very small thing, there is no way you will navigate, successfully, a marriage to a woman from that culture.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: treadmilldude on April 26, 2018, 01:55:15 PM
When Moby’s Wife’s new kitten accidentally got run over by a car, why did you make fun of her and make fun of the accident, laughing at her and the dead kitten?

The Women in my life are important to me, I will die for them. Don’t ever make a remark like that about any Female I know, love or care about.

You have no respect for Children or Women, you have no sense of decency at all to you.

There are certain Men who, because of their complete lack of empathy, have no business ever getting married to a Woman. You are such a Man Trenchcoat.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 03:01:36 PM
When Moby’s Wife’s new kitten accidentally got run over by a car, why did you make fun of her and make fun of the accident, laughing at her and the dead kitten?

The Women in my life are important to me, I will die for them. Don’t ever make a remark like that about any Female I know, love or care about.

You have no respect for Children or Women, you have no sense of decency at all to you.

There are certain Men who, because of their complete lack of empathy, have no business ever getting married to a Woman. You are such a Man Trenchcoat.

I think you are overstating it a little TMD, in all cases it was just a light hearted joke. Most of those in any case give as good as they get. I think you need to relax TMD and not take forums so seriously, guys mess about on them all the time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 26, 2018, 03:33:41 PM
I think you are overstating it a little TMD, in all cases it was just a light hearted joke. Most of those in any case give as good as they get. I think you need to relax TMD and not take forums so seriously, guys mess about on them all the time.

A joke like when the video of the Georgian ski lift accident was posted, and people almost died, you were laughing and making fun of one of the guys who flew off the chair and crashed into the snow violently. 

Dude no one ain't gonna help you no more.  If you can't find a woman for the rest of your life then so be it. 

You might not be autistic but you are one of the most socially inept people I've ever come across.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 03:50:58 PM
Why are you looking in a traditional society if you are not willing to play be a traditional society's rules??

Not an easy thing to explain. In part because I do not know what they are.

I know most of traditional societies rules in the west as they were but I don't know how they apply in the FSU, generally for me in Ukraine. As you know societies in East & West developed differently particularly under the Soviet Union as it became more closed of to outsiders.

So for example in the UK up to the early to mid part of the twentieth century women of any repute usually did not go into pubs they used to sit outside on a bench and wait for their man to come out. It was seen as in decent for them to go inside. Now does this traditional value apply in Ukraine today? Not as far as I have seen. So you see its knowing which traditional values apply and how they apply. Some may be applied differently while some traditional values might be entirely traditional to Ukraine/FSU or at least never a western traditional value.

So if I knew what they were, some I do it would be easier to play by them. The other issue is the girl if she wants to live in the west - society is no longer traditional or at least very few places are traditional in their values. As said before a salary in the West unless specifically high only is set up to pay for one person plus a child or two, or a bit of entertainment. I could support a FSW as well so long as she was not hammering the credit card constantly. Is there an alternative way to have it set up I don't know, what would you suggest?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 03:57:28 PM
A joke like when the video of the Georgian ski lift accident was posted, and people almost died, you were laughing and making fun of one of the guys who flew off the chair and crashed into the snow violently. 

Dude no one ain't gonna help you no more.  If you can't find a woman for the rest of your life then so be it. 

You might not be autistic but you are one of the most socially inept people I've ever come across.

People don't almost die Sting they are either dead or they are not dead. The lift accident was not really all that serious no one lost a limb or anything. Unless you personally are connected to any of those people you are getting overly concerned over people you don't know.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2018, 04:10:04 PM
Not an easy thing to explain. In part because I do not know what they are.

Yet when you are told what they are, you ignore them, because those values do not conform to what you desire.
Quote
So for example in the UK up to the early to mid part of the twentieth century women of any repute usually did not go into pubs they used to sit outside on a bench and wait for their man to come out. It was seen as in decent for them to go inside. Now does this traditional value apply in Ukraine today? Not as far as I have seen. So you see its knowing which traditional values apply and how they apply. Some may be applied differently while some traditional values might be entirely traditional to Ukraine/FSU or at least never a western traditional value.


Well, you would be mistaken about what you've seen.

Even in the early 1990's, there was a perception in Ukraine that if you were a single woman, you did not go to a bar, even a restaurant alone.  If you did, you were a slut. 

Last summer, our son was in Kyiv for a few days at the end of the summer, visiting family.  He stopped in a bar for a beer.  He overheard a conversation where a man told a woman who was alone in the bar that she was a slut, that women were home with their children, not in bars.  I had assumed such attitudes had changed, but they really haven't, overall.  Going to clubs in groups is fine, bars, not so much.

Quote
So if I knew what they were, some I do it would be easier to play by them. The other issue is the girl if she wants to live in the west - society is no longer traditional or at least very few places are traditional in their values. As said before a salary in the West unless specifically high only is set up to pay for one person plus a child or two, or a bit of entertainment. I could support a FSW as well so long as she was not hammering the credit card constantly. Is there an alternative way to have it set up I don't know, what would you suggest?

I honestly suggest you give up this idea.  You do not have a mentality that will mesh, long term, with an Eastern European, nor do you seem to have the flexibility to deal with the cultural differences.  I'm not saying this to be mean, or dismissive, or to discourage you, it is just an honest assessment of what I think your long term success rate will be, unless you are an absolutely different person IRL.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 26, 2018, 04:17:05 PM
People don't almost die Sting they are either dead or they are not dead. The lift accident was not really all that serious no one lost a limb or anything. Unless you personally are connected to any of those people you are getting overly concerned over people you don't know.

Dude you are an idiot...people can almost die and recover.  Not that serious, did you watch the footage?  The chair lift went in reverse at double speed and people flew out. if it wasn't snow and was concrete for sure they would have broken an arm or something.

You don't need to be connected to people to have concern for them.  Shows your general lack of empathy and probably why you don't succeed with women.

Not once have I heard you try to woo or romance a girl.  You literally don't know how to. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 04:17:36 PM
I will also add, you must have a certain flexibility when married to someone from a different culture.  There are going to be misunderstandings, and differences in some ways you approach things, particularly when it comes to raising children.  I encountered these things, and I know the culture, speak the language, understand most of the cultural cues, and am married to a man who is, for the most part, flexible in terms of culture.

If you cannot even compromise on this issue. let alone understand it (which you don't), which is a very small thing, there is no way you will navigate, successfully, a marriage to a woman from that culture.

I understand the issue now and thank you for that in helping me to understand. It's not easy to see at first when first faced with the problem. If a girl turns around to you and says after two weeks of dating that you cannot come to visit where she lives most western guys would be stumped I think and not have a clue why - I don't mean visit where she actually lives as in go inside just visit the city & stay in a separate place singly. Most WM would fathom that doing such would result in their girl being labelled a whore and being talked about. Most WM would expect to visit girl on her city as most would be oblivious to all these concerns. The girl I was with never have any explanation why I couldn't go she just kept repeating she visits me first then I visit her. Whether this would have worked out like that who knows. Does she then consider the prospect of me being with her ok once she had checked my out fully and believes there to be less chance of me being a dodgy guy that would just ruin her reputation? I can see she might not want to go through a few men turning up that might later fall through as in the example that you gave. Thing is I kind of feel that the girl didn't really think about how I would view her telling me I can't visit but she visits me. I am after all the guy who is footing the bill for what happens and when and generally I'm used to going where I please, lol. It must be said that there was never any willingness to compromise on her side I just felt like she thought I just back down all the time and everything is done her way or not at all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 26, 2018, 04:19:45 PM
you don't understand nuthin'
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 26, 2018, 04:30:59 PM
in all cases it was just a light hearted joke.

The Kitten 'joke' convinced me that you are a victim of  antisocial personality disorder.. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 04:48:22 PM
Yet when you are told what they are, you ignore them, because those values do not conform to what you desire.

Well, you would be mistaken about what you've seen.

Even in the early 1990's, there was a perception in Ukraine that if you were a single woman, you did not go to a bar, even a restaurant alone.  If you did, you were a slut. 

Last summer, our son was in Kyiv for a few days at the end of the summer, visiting family.  He stopped in a bar for a beer.  He overheard a conversation where a man told a woman who was alone in the bar that she was a slut, that women were home with their children, not in bars.  I had assumed such attitudes had changed, but they really haven't, overall.  Going to clubs in groups is fine, bars, not so much.

I honestly suggest you give up this idea.  You do not have a mentality that will mesh, long term, with an Eastern European, nor do you seem to have the flexibility to deal with the cultural differences.  I'm not saying this to be mean, or dismissive, or to discourage you, it is just an honest assessment of what I think your long term success rate will be, unless you are an absolutely different person IRL.

Still it is a little different to the example I gave, if a girl went into a bar in Kiev to meet her man sat inside from what I've seen nothing would likely be said of that.

IRL I am normally quite easy going but I am not willing to be played for a fool or a mug. If a girl comes out with stuff like the girl I was with did about not wanting to see me in her home town most guys who didnt know would be thinking something is dodgy here - that she is playing a game and not serious and/or playing the guy for a fool for what she can get. I'm pretty sure I would not be out of the ordinary of most WM that would think that.

Knowing more about this sort of stuff helps. I just about managed to sort out the cultural difference thing with the sauna but there is a point where you worry you are just not wishing to see what is going on and fooling yourself. Some of these cultural differences like the sauna one are preedy weird cultural differences - it's alright to cross this never to cross red line if... sort of thing.

I generally just went out there to find a girl, I had no idea cultural differences would stretch that far  I thought that all in the past like when Japanese people used to have a certain procedural etiquette to go through before they would deem you suitable to do business with. To me you just go out there meet said girl and if your into each other you both have an interest in getting it on wherever and whenever - what could be so wrong with that.

I am not put off this whole venture, I will just have to be a bit more nimble on how I do things.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 05:07:36 PM
The Kitten 'joke' convinced me that you are a victim of  antisocial personality disorder..

If you were less condersending towards me on the first Mobe then I would not have made the joke.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 26, 2018, 05:23:38 PM
Trench it's pretty obvious that you haven't lived outside of the UK.  You don't know much about different cultures or how to interact with people. 

You were already played like a fool, you bought stuff for the girl and never heard from her again. 

So, you booked your flight yet?  Almost May now. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2018, 05:28:46 PM
I am not willing to be played for a fool or a mug. If a girl comes out with stuff like the girl I was with did about not wanting to see me in her home town most guys who didnt know would be thinking something is dodgy here - that she is playing a game and not serious and/or playing the guy for a fool for what she can get. I'm pretty sure I would not be out of the ordinary of most WM that would think that.


You were told here, in real time, that her concerns were normal for a woman her age living in a smaller centre.  You dismissed those concerns.  So don't suggest this was abnormal, or that you were not told she was not playing a game.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 26, 2018, 05:39:36 PM

You were told here, in real time, that her concerns were normal for a woman her age living in a smaller centre.  You dismissed those concerns.  So don't suggest this was abnormal, or that you were not told she was not playing a game.

Yes but that happened after all of the disagreement with her on it. By that time she had started looking for other mend on the dating site online - I find such behaviour highly deceitful. This was while I tried to discuss things thorough with her, this heightened my sense of distrust for her even more. If she was that into me she would have tried to work things out more - but don't tell me I'm guessing I'm in the wrong here also!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2018, 05:49:34 PM
No, you were posting here in real time. You refused to even entertain the idea of her visiting you, as improbable as it was. You also assumed she was playing you. I suspect she picked up on that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 26, 2018, 06:11:17 PM
If you were less condersending towards me on the first Mobe then I would not have made the joke.

IF you care to check, I tried to help you - at first - before I realised you were either trolling or just beyond help and not someone you'd want one's daughter bringing home as a prospective hubby

Once again - your 'joke' was only 'funny' to someone  who has zip social skills and empathy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 26, 2018, 08:17:16 PM
trench,

a lot of good things can be said about masturbation

when you see the level of satisfaction it produces
vrs. the cost/effort 
you can't help but conclude that it's the most efficient/cost effective system for sexual gratification that mankind has ever created!

second most efficient is prostitution
does that idea appeal to you?
Odessa is now about 20 pounds a night, you could rent a 20 yr escort to spend a weekend with you for 1000 pounds
what is it a 6 hr flight to/from Heathrow?
it's not romance, there's no love there, but there will be PLENTY of sex, guaranteed

I think this beats (if you'll pardon me for saying so) masturbation
I think you'll enjoy it more and it's guaranteed, and you might learn a thing or two from the experience...









Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 01:53:33 AM
trench,

a lot of good things can be said about masturbation

when you see the level of satisfaction it produces
vrs. the cost/effort 
you can't help but conclude that it's the most efficient/cost effective system for sexual gratification that mankind has ever created!

second most efficient is prostitution
does that idea appeal to you?
Odessa is now about 20 pounds a night, you could rent a 20 yr escort to spend a weekend with you for 1000 pounds
what is it a 6 hr flight to/from Heathrow?
it's not romance, there's no love there, but there will be PLENTY of sex, guaranteed

I think this beats (if you'll pardon me for saying so) masturbation
I think you'll enjoy it more and it's guaranteed, and you might learn a thing or two from the experience...

Apparently masterbation is one of the best ways for relieving stress of the mind.

I've already said that prostitution does little for me. I've never tried it and any thought of trying it went with the last girl I was with. While the sex was great I found any doubt that were generated from time to time that she might do this as her business if not be a full blown prostitute as a downer sexually. I 'need' to feel that the girl is with me 100 percent because she is into me and not for the money or some other alterior motive. Only then do I think I would reach my full satisfaction sexually. The more a girl is found it for money etc like a prostitute the less sexually I would be turned on anyway. The idea of going with a prostitute kind of feels a too low life as well and not the thing to do.

So I don't think I would learn anything more from the experience that I don't already know. I'm not even really sure why you suggest it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 27, 2018, 04:08:22 AM
dude you keep saying that a girl needs to be 100% into you.  You as the man need to give the reasons for her to like you.  Everything you write here shows me that you have no clue.  You got no charm, wit, intelligence.  You make crude jokes and have a lack of sensitivity towards people.

I told you to go to the local pub and chat up the girls.  You can't even do that.  Throw in a language and cultural barrier and what makes you think you'll succeed.

Most of the guys here have Russian and FSU women as friends and could introduce you.  If they thought you were a decent, stand up guy with alot to offer.  Yet no one will vouch for you.  Think why that is and how you can turn it around.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 27, 2018, 04:27:41 AM
dude you keep saying that a girl needs to be 100% into you.  You as the man need to give the reasons for her to like you.  Everything you write here shows me that you have no clue.  You got no charm, wit, intelligence.  You make crude jokes and have a lack of sensitivity towards people.

I told you to go to the local pub and chat up the girls.  You can't even do that.  Throw in a language and cultural barrier and what makes you think you'll succeed.

Most of the guys here have Russian and FSU women as friends and could introduce you.  If they thought you were a decent, stand up guy with alot to offer.  Yet no one will vouch for you.  Think why that is and how you can turn it around.

 :cheesy:  My woman, who have read many of his posts here, she has a lot of single girlfriends who now - after meeting me and seeing me and her together - also have started to look for this outside Ukraine - several of them registred on fdating, she has warned them firmly to be aware if any brittish dude tries to contact them, after she read a number of post he did here last summer, she was quite disgusted by his view on women and relationships.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 04:59:43 AM
Trench it's pretty obvious that you haven't lived outside of the UK.  You don't know much about different cultures or how to interact with people. 

You were already played like a fool, you bought stuff for the girl and never heard from her again. 

So, you booked your flight yet?  Almost May now.

No I have not lived outside the UK other than holidays etc. That said I think a lot of guys would be perplexed by telegraph cultural differences that come up and many not even realise they were dealing with cultural differences, for me it was a graso hut fir many others the wouldn't even catch on I'm pretty sure.

The girl was manipulative and somewhat materialistic these were her character faults. She was into me to at least some degree I think but ghe combination of her character flaws & cultural differences threw me off. I think her manipulative nature meant she was playing me but not playing me for a fool. I think she really believed herself this is how a relationship works with a WM from what she had heard/been told. She actually is a very sweet girl, very pretty but no pro dater glamazon. I don't think she dated men for a living but did seriously want to find someone even if her ideas on it were some way off, my ideas on it too may have been a bit off.

She contacted me afterwards and vice versa a fair amount but our disagreement on meeting up etc meant this relationship was going nowhere at least for now. I still have contact with her on Skype but have not contacted her for several months. Essentially there would be a lot to work through and I'm not convinced that progress could be made where it is needed, not yet at least.

She would have to be more accepting of compromise on meeting up elsewhere if not her home town. She won't accept that the UK would not give her a visa to visit - something even Mobers backs me up on. Then the buying of fashion brand clothing at a too frequent rate would need to be tackled.

Possibly she might come around in a year or so time but at the moment I think she still probably will not budge on anything. In a year or so she may mature a bit more and things could change. At the moment though I think any attempt to resolve our differences would run into the same problems. She's looking for a man that will do at least what I did to cater for her then more so. Truth is she will not find him or at least highly unlikely to. Most men will not go as far as I did or they will go so far in buying her stuff then get fed up like I did. Most men will either run at first sussing her out or her first demand or will not bother with her in the first place as she lives so far out from the big airport cities/in an industrial backwater. That is how I know I could go back to get in 1,2,3..5..7...10 etc years time and she'll still be there in the same position. I'm not going to wait 5 years or more I'm going to get out to the FSU this year and see if I can find a woman without such character flaws, she can wait for me and then maybe, just maybe.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 27, 2018, 05:09:39 AM
dude you keep saying that a girl needs to be 100% into you.  You as the man need to give the reasons for her to like you.  Everything you write here shows me that you have no clue.  You got no charm, wit, intelligence.  You make crude jokes and have a lack of sensitivity towards people.

I told you to go to the local pub and chat up the girls.  You can't even do that.  Throw in a language and cultural barrier and what makes you think you'll succeed.

Most of the guys here have Russian and FSU women as friends and could introduce you.  If they thought you were a decent, stand up guy with alto to offer.  Yet no one will vouch for you.  Think why that is and how you can turn it around.
Going back a long  time ago here on the forum  it was his ignorant,insulting,offensive  ( let alone just plain dumb stupid) comments on Ukraine and Ukrainian women  that set me off !!
His response -- to me and Nightwish( whose comments and attitude to him is & were very similar to mine) was to insult and attack us in an even more ignorant way.

:cheesy:  My woman, who have read many of his posts here, she has a lot of single girlfriends who now - after meeting me and seeing me and her together - also have started to look for this outside Ukraine - several of them registred on fdating, she has warned them firmly to be aware if any brittish dude tries to contact them, after she read a number of post he did here last summer, she was quite disgusted by his view on women and relationships.
One of his many problems is that he is incapable of learning . He prefers to believe those who are not critical of him ( ala the silly Billies_ ) and the attempted sex tourist DK  instead of understanding what is solid advice.
I have only bothered offering anything in threads he pollutes to try and show lurkers how ridiculous his comments are --and his ideas

Some think he is bullied here --those that make that comment need to read the nonsense that he keeps on keeping on with,
Going back some years I used to avoid contact with 'western" guys looking,but after coming to the forums ,I got more interested in who.what/why etc of guys. Generally speaking,I was horrified at the "low" level of many guys-and few I saw were what I would consider ok and "normal" !!
Talking with many girls and hearing many stories about guys reinforced  that view -- and that applies to this day.
I have always been very wary of introducing any guys at all -- and some who I considered were not so keen when I made it clear I would only do so after I was certain of them !
At the moment -- I have a friend who is 24 yo with a 6 yo son --who is really interested in finding a decent guy.She is very slim,nice person,great mother  and trying really hard to improve her English.She would look very seriously at guys a lot older( but not an old man) !!_  She is despairing of any decent men being out there !
It will be interesting  to see what  comes of your girls friends attempts .
One of the best pieces of advice out there -- expect nothing until a real life meeting is a fact -- and definitely do not over commit mentally prior to that.
Actually -that goes to a point I have made before --over time I have met many girls -- but I have never  prematurely taken the "this is the one" approach.Ironically -- out of that I have made a lot of friends. In retrospect -I would not change that approach --just meet and see ! Sparks do not always fly in the first 5 minutes!
All that is why I dislike the concept of the 7 day trip and propose deal -- it can happen--true--but to me it is out of an earlier period of time the economic situation was quite different and the modern communication methods unavailable.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 05:30:34 AM
"Going back some years I used to avoid contact with 'western" guys looking,b"

oh yes, when I lived in Crimea, I learned to avoid these guys like a plague (which they were)
it made me look in a mirror and ask the question - am I one as well?
the mirror said, "no dude, you're not!"
that was a relief...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 27, 2018, 06:41:23 AM
"Going back some years I used to avoid contact with 'western" guys looking,b"

oh yes, when I lived in Crimea, I learned to avoid these guys like a plague (which they were)
it made me look in a mirror and ask the question - am I one as well?
the mirror said, "no dude, you're not!"
that was a relief...

Funnily enough that matches something that happened today !
We were sitting adjacent to some American guys  and could hear conversation. One of the guys was telling the others of his yesterday-- when a girl/woman he met somehow -- said to him that he looked like a grandfather -- which  he thought amusing.

On explaining all that I was hearing to my girl -- she said -well-he does ! I said -he looks like MY GRANDFATHER !!( & he is dead !!) My girl is still chuckling .
One of the other guys was grossly fat ,oversize and the other guy just large !

I said to my girl --" see --what a prize I am "!!  Her reply --I am the prize here " !!!! LoL ! ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 07:53:29 AM
Funnily enough that matches something that happened today !
We were sitting adjacent to some American guys  and could hear conversation. One of the guys was telling the others of his yesterday-- when a girl/woman he met somehow -- said to him that he looked like a grandfather -- which  he thought amusing.

On explaining all that I was hearing to my girl -- she said -well-he does ! I said -he looks like MY GRANDFATHER !!( & he is dead !!) My girl is still chuckling .
One of the other guys was grossly fat ,oversize and the other guy just large !

I said to my girl --" see --what a prize I am "!!  Her reply --I am the prize here " !!!! LoL ! ;D

I think you get two distinct groups go to the FSU, more specifically Ukraine for the dating scene, those that are serious and then those that are just out for some light heated fun.

Sounds like the guys you overheard were the latter. They can laugh at themselves as they know they are over the hill even by FSU dating standards. They are mostly pursuing a FSW for a bit of fun to kill a bit of time, loneliness, adventure, casual entertainment or whatever. Even the odd few of them I wouldn't mind betting end up in a LTR as a random occurrence, most won't and it no doubt doesn't bother them. Its like a larger lads booze cruise for the older generation.

Without meaning to be aloof I wouldn't actively associate with such circles either, there is no interest in that scene for me as its not what I'm there for, I go to the FSU/Ukraine as I am serious. If they tried to hit up a conversation it wouldn't bother me but I wouldn't start associating with such groups there and my aims are completely different. I don't consider myself above them or some sort of cultural connoisseur of Ukraine. If they get joy out it then good luck to them.

I'm not a fat guy, but a guy of average weight and a good 6ft tall, I get exercise but am no athlete, I have a full head of hair that is not obviously graying, etc. I consider myself a normal guy in so far that I don't consider myself to be odd looking, lame looking, or any strange habits or attitudes. I know I have ventured a few thoughts on here that may be seen as a bit outside the status quo but that is just to garner an idea of what the perceptions and attitudes of FSW might be. There culture after all is a bit different to ours. Day to day I am really just a guy that knows to be quite moderate and be careful of what I do and say within reason. When it comes to FSU culture before finding out on here or from the girl how on earth am I supposed to know they have hang ups about this or that or not something else that is quite different to what we have. I'm guessing you didn't have an intuitive knowledge about all the cultural stuff at the start of when you started looking or visiting the FSU Jay. Like most you no doubt discovered stuff along the way and had to work things out, precisely what I am doing. People don't tend to set off on this venture with an already existing inside track into everything FSU. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 08:13:28 AM
Going back a long  time ago here on the forum  it was his ignorant,insulting,offensive  ( let alone just plain dumb stupid) comments on Ukraine and Ukrainian women  that set me off !!
His response -- to me and Nightwish( whose comments and attitude to him is & were very similar to mine) was to insult and attack us in an even more ignorant way.


Going back some years I used to avoid contact with 'western" guys looking,but after coming to the forums ,I got more interested in who.what/why etc of guys. Generally speaking,I was horrified at the "low" level of many guys-and few I saw were what I would consider ok and "normal" !!
Talking with many girls and hearing many stories about guys reinforced  that view -- and that applies to this day.
I have always been very wary of introducing any guys at all -- and some who I considered were not so keen when I made it clear I would only do so after I was certain of them !
At the moment -- I have a friend who is 24 yo with a 6 yo son --who is really interested in finding a decent guy.She is very slim,nice person,great mother  and trying really hard to improve her English.She would look very seriously at guys a lot older( but not an old man) !!_  She is despairing of any decent men being out there !
It will be interesting  to see what  comes of your girls friends attempts .
One of the best pieces of advice out there -- expect nothing until a real life meeting is a fact -- and definitely do not over commit mentally prior to that.
Actually -that goes to a point I have made before --over time I have met many girls -- but I have never  prematurely taken the "this is the one" approach.Ironically -- out of that I have made a lot of friends. In retrospect -I would not change that approach --just meet and see ! Sparks do not always fly in the first 5 minutes!
All that is why I dislike the concept of the 7 day trip and propose deal -- it can happen--true--but to me it is out of an earlier period of time the economic situation was quite different and the modern communication methods unavailable.

If you and Nightwish were not so up your own rears and offered real advice about FSU dating rather than aggression and thinking your a touch above all the newbies etc then it would have not gone how it went. You guys take anything a newbie says as an afront to your pride on everything FSU. Stop viewing everyone as outsiders who want to date a FSW, you will never be a native FSU person however better you think you are than those newbies on FSU culture, you will also at heart always be an outsider however different to others you feel about yourself. Please come down of the high lofty perch you have set yourself upon!

I do not know what you consider constitutes a 'low level guy' who is not 'normal', perhaps you would care to explain?

From your description this female friend of yours sounds like a nice girl but she has a son. Now we have been over this before and sure some guys won't mind this but how many will - a fair amount as that is why she is finding it difficult. How many guys click the 'without children' on dating profiles online without meeting those that do - quite a lot I would imagine, possibly even the majority of men. If they met her and there was chemistry they might decide its a non-issue that she has a child, but the internet gives a sheer stats point of view on a person. Guys online will tend to go for a 'do I want this or that' approach, they have little else besides photo to go on online without a meeting or at least a Skype. She is where she is and most men will not be putting her top of the pile to search through unless they were to meet her first.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 27, 2018, 08:25:36 AM
I think you get two distinct groups go to the FSU, more specifically Ukraine for the dating scene, those that are serious and then those that are just out for some light heated fun.

Sounds like the guys you overheard were the latter. They can laugh at themselves as they know they are over the hill even by FSU dating standards. They are mostly pursuing a FSW for a bit of fun to kill a bit of time, loneliness, adventure, casual entertainment or whatever. Even the odd few of them I wouldn't mind betting end up in a LTR as a random occurrence, most won't and it no doubt doesn't bother them. Its like a larger lads booze cruise for the older generation.

Without meaning to be aloof I wouldn't actively associate with such circles either, there is no interest in that scene for me as its not what I'm there for, I go to the FSU/Ukraine as I am serious.

Needless to say you simply don't get it --again. You draw an incorrect conclusion from facts not in evidence -as you have a 1000 time previously.
The point is- they are serious --but as with you --totally deluded. The guy thought he was getting a compliment  --that is what makes it even funnier !!To spell it out --it must have come from a girl very very substantially younger than him --basically  an insult of the you must be joking category.

You go on to write about your physical description  --which prima facie is all  plus --including a very good age --- BUT  ---BUT as so many have said here --your head is f.....d !!
That is why you are in exactly the same deluded category as the guys I wrote about !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 08:27:21 AM
IF you care to check, I tried to help you - at first - before I realised you were either trolling or just beyond help and not someone you'd want one's daughter bringing home as a prospective hubby

Once again - your 'joke' was only 'funny' to someone  who has zip social skills and empathy.

I have little empathy with someone who keeps hammering me on everything, dissecting it piece by piece and trying to pull it apart and this you had been doing for quite some time before the cat incident/joke. Remember before this I asked you for help regarding Cyprus yet you held out on me to prove how superior you are, in fact you gave me a hard time on it when you knew full well I had got myself in a bit of a situation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 27, 2018, 08:29:07 AM


. How many guys click the 'without children' on dating profiles online without meeting those that do - quite a lot I would imagine, possibly even the majority of men. If they met her and there was chemistry they might decide its a non-issue that she has a child, but the internet gives a sheer stats point of view on a person. Guys online will tend to go for a 'do I want this or that' approach, they have little else besides photo to go on online without a meeting or at least a Skype.

Most girls would tick the "with  a brain "  box also !
And what do they get?  brainless  idiots ! :) :welcome:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 08:35:53 AM
Needless to say you simply don't get it --again. You draw an incorrect conclusion from facts not in evidence -as you have a 1000 time previously.
The point is- they are serious --but as with you --totally deluded. The guy thought he was getting a compliment  --that is what makes it even funnier !!To spell it out --it must have come from a girl very very substantially younger than him --basically  an insult of the you must be joking category.

You go on to write about your physical description  --which prima facie is all  plus --including a very good age --- BUT  ---BUT as so many have said here --your head is f.....d !!
That is why you are in exactly the same deluded category as the guys I wrote about !

Without being there I would not know for sure, people can interpret things different ways, perhaps how you put it was how it was. I would need to be there see the people, the inferences, etc, etc.

No doubt many guys go for too young girls, most will think its a joke a few may not be bothered with age. We all age at the end of the day and if we live long enough turn into the sad states you describe both men and women. Even women that were too old I would never insult them to their face unless of course they were being nasty prior to such a remark - why, because we all end up that way, none of us will remain the young to middle age that we are.

Stop laughing at others Jay, you're not all that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 08:58:29 AM
“Apparently masterbation is one of the best ways for relieving stress of the mind.”

I wouldn’t know myself, it’s been awhile, not even sure I remember how...

“I've already said that prostitution does little for me. I've never tried it  “

if you’ll forgive me, “if you’ve never tried it”, then you don’t know...
prostitution? no one uses that ‘word’
it’s escorts...
i’ve had escorts, they’re GREAT!
no worries about emotional intimacy!
but very intense physical intimacy! (I always choose for them to “stay over")
great for a re-bound without going through "yet another relationship"
but pretty “top-level” sex, and the price is actually cheaper than 5 star dinners, etc
and in Kyiv or Odessa, the escorts are *****
so escorts are bad because... (you haven’t tried it...)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 09:21:37 AM
Trench,

if you’ll pardon me for sayin’ so, your life is “a piece of cake”, you have one fundamental problem, which is “how to achieve emotional intimacy with a woman” 
it appears as though you have no experience with this...
I’m going to take a guess this probably began with your own parents.
my mother was British, I know what an emotionally distant parent is...

I live with three emotionally volatile women, three, not one...

I call them fulminite of mercury, nitroglycerin, and nitrogen-tri-iodine
they are extremely volatile!! 
liable to explode over small perturbations in the environment
some unexpected event occurs, like the family cat is runover for instance
will mean the end of the universe in a fury of fire and thunder
and woe unto he who delivers an ovation at the funeral of said cat, if it is judged to be insufficiently “moving” by fellow funeral attendees...

seriously, you have no appreciation for how simple and peaceful your life is...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 27, 2018, 09:41:00 AM
I have little empathy with someone who keeps hammering me on everything, dissecting it piece by piece and trying to pull it apart and this you had been doing for quite some time before the cat incident/joke. Remember before this I asked you for help regarding Cyprus yet you held out on me to prove how superior you are, in fact you gave me a hard time on it when you knew full well I had got myself in a bit of a situation.

Gosh and now economical with the truth, too?  Is there no bounds to your 'positives' ?



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
jay

an escort will be whatever you want her to be...
you can dress her up and take her to dinner and dancing, bowling, sailing,
whatever you want...
you can spend hours with her telling her about how awful your childhood was, and she’ll pat your hand, and the good ones will even freakin cry...

and then....well...you know how the rest goes (but at least it goes...)
and at the end you hand her a tip in an envelope and your business card and she gives you a long good bye kiss...
and everyone lived happily ever after
I just love “happy endings”

it's just my opinion Jay, but I think if you did this experience not only with the goal of gratification but to kind of sharpen your skills regarding intimacy
it might create some improvement, by that I mean even though you're paying for her time, try to make her time with you as enjoyable as possible
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 10:29:55 AM
“Apparently masterbation is one of the best ways for relieving stress of the mind.”

I wouldn’t know myself, it’s been awhile, not even sure I remember how...

“I've already said that prostitution does little for me. I've never tried it  “

if you’ll forgive me, “if you’ve never tried it”, then you don’t know...
prostitution? no one uses that ‘word’
it’s escorts...
i’ve had escorts, they’re GREAT!
no worries about emotional intimacy!
but very intense physical intimacy! (I always choose for them to “stay over")
great for a re-bound without going through "yet another relationship"
but pretty “top-level” sex, and the price is actually cheaper than 5 star dinners, etc
and in Kyiv or Odessa, the escorts are *****
so escorts are bad because... (you haven’t tried it...)

Perhaps you are right in them being hot but like said I need to feel a woman is genuinely into me to get a really hard, hard on. Otherwise the less I feel she is genuinely into me and the more doubt the less hard I can become.

Additionally to that I have always seen the prostitute/escort as rather seedy. I'm not really at all a religious guy but I've always felt that going with them diminishes who I am as a person like it devalues me - them I do not know how they feel about doing it. So it's something I don't do and am not interested in no matter how hot they may be.

Also not forgetting there are STI's such as Herpes to consider. No doubt an increased risK as many prostitutes/escorts go with loads of guys so not something I would want.

I once walked down the tourist red light district of Amsterdam looking at the women in the windows there with my brother. Like many a tourist it was an interesting scene with several hot women being displayed, but apart from looking and perving a bit they idea of going with them never really appealed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 10:36:12 AM
jay,
don’t be one the lost wandering around Ukraine looking for “love”

when for the same effort you can with a guarantee have “sex”

cost of a round-trip ticket Heathrow to Odessa is what $800
a week’s apartment rental beach front Odessa $300

two escorts
#1 19-21
#2 26-28

$2000 for 2 days for both (next time straight through them for 1/2 price)
plus about $500 worth of food and alcohol

this experience will leave you walking “bowl-legged” for at least a month
you will learn more than you will ever want to know about women from this experience alone...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 10:40:13 AM
Trench,

if you’ll pardon me for sayin’ so, your life is “a piece of cake”, you have one fundamental problem, which is “how to achieve emotional intimacy with a woman” 
it appears as though you have no experience with this...
I’m going to take a guess this probably began with your own parents.
my mother was British, I know what an emotionally distant parent is...

I live with three emotionally volatile women, three, not one...

I call them fulminite of mercury, nitroglycerin, and nitrogen-tri-iodine
they are extremely volatile!! 
liable to explode over small perturbations in the environment
some unexpected event occurs, like the family cat is runover for instance
will mean the end of the universe in a fury of fire and thunder
and woe unto he who delivers an ovation at the funeral of said cat, if it is judged to be insufficiently “moving” by fellow funeral attendees...

seriously, you have no appreciation for how simple and peaceful your life is...

Granted I am not the most emotional person around though apparently FSW like their men to be as solid as a rock from what I hear so maybe it's not a problem to them.

Volatile women I have seen and to be honest I find their emotions can be overpowering and stressful to deal with. I don't mind women showing their emotions occasionally as it can help show what they really feel if they feel strongly about something. It can sometimes be easier to see if they are genuine about something or its just put on, some are of course good actressses.

Emotional intimacy I don't feel is my natural domain, I am quite a practical guy so it's a personality shift really. By default I think I tend to think practically first emotionally last - I rarely see emotions as useful to a situation. It is something I probably need to get more in touch with.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: IvanM07 on April 27, 2018, 10:42:38 AM
Perhaps you are right in them being hot but like said I need to feel a woman is genuinely into me to get a really hard, hard on. Otherwise the less I feel she is genuinely into me and the more doubt the less hard I can become.

Use Viagra or Cialis or something? It's $0.20 a tab here in the States if you don't have a Rx.

Additionally to that I have always seen the prostitute/escort as rather seedy. I'm not really at all a religious guy but I've always felt that going with them diminishes who I am as a person like it devalues me - them I do not know how they feel about doing it. So it's something I don't do and am not interested in no matter how hot they may be.

For some people the seedy aspect makes it better. Tell a kid don't touch the stove and they touch it. Same concept.

I've always viewed it as the guy is paying in one way or another. In Time, Dates/Food/Drinks, or cutting through all the BS and handing an envelope over. Same result and still requires currency in one form or another.

Also not forgetting there are STI's such as Herpes to consider. No doubt an increased risK as many prostitutes/escorts go with loads of guys so not something I would want.

I once walked down the tourist red light district of Amsterdam looking at the women in the windows there with my brother. Like many a tourist it was an interesting scene with several hot women being displayed, but apart from looking and perving a bit they idea of going with them never really appealed.

Don't DFK, and use a Condom. Also don't pick up street walkers and go with higher end escorts. Good to go.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 10:42:46 AM
oh no, the Amsterdam Red Light District, no...
Ukrainian escorts are 5 star jay not one star or two star like in Amsterdam
and they come to you, and you come to...

no, I get the stigma Jay, and:
A: that's part of what makes it cool
B: these girls are basically Ukrainian college girls who need $$$ - 19 yr old blond hair/blue eyes knockouts!!!
C: no ambiguity, get exactly what you want, the only thing off limits would probably be grave robbing

and it's frustration free and fun!!!

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 10:44:01 AM
jay,
don’t be one the lost wandering around Ukraine looking for “love”

when for the same effort you can with a guarantee have “sex”

cost of a round-trip ticket Heathrow to Odessa is what $800
a week’s apartment rental beach front Odessa $300

two escorts
#1 19-21
#2 26-28

$2000 for 2 days for both (next time straight through them for 1/2 price)
plus about $500 worth of food and alcohol

this experience will leave you walking “bowl-legged” for at least a month
you will learn more than you will ever want to know about women from this experience alone...

You do know I'm Trench and not Jay don't you? :-\

Like I said in case you meant me it's something I have no interest in no matter how good it is described.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 10:48:17 AM
sorry, it's the accent
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 10:49:19 AM
and at a distance all white people look the same to me
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 10:57:15 AM
"Granted I am not the most emotional person around "

I'm sure what your description really means, is that in reality you don't have emotional intimacy with the people around you
what everyone is trying to tell you Trench..
and also trying to tell you that without this, relationships fail...

that's the simple message
my posts to you have been about ways for you to change this
but the first step is you have to want to...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 27, 2018, 11:46:30 AM
trench,
whatever “thing” it is that propels you to took for “love” in Ukraine, you should try once just having sex there instead, and see how much of that “thing” remains...

you may find that really what you’re looking for is physical intimacy and not the emotional kind, because you cannot expect to receive that which you cannot also give...

it seems like most guys are following a “program”
and not really thinking, if you ask me
the program is: "must--find--wife"
but really there are LOTS of alternatives to this!
I think some guys may find more happiness following a different path than must--find--wife
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 01:11:53 PM
In all honesty I still care about the last girl that I was with even with all the issues. Some are no longer the issues they were now with the help of others on here like Boethius I understand more about them. I know though that things have to change there if we were to ever get back together.

No. 1 - she would have to drop her demand for a UK tourist visa at least in the short term and find somewhere we could meet/stay together to work on relationship together.

No. 2 - Some resolution as to the clothes spending would have to be reached that we would both be happy with. In reality I think this would mean some backing down on her part and I don't think this would happen until she's matured a bit - so probably at least a year or so on that one, she could do relatively so as she's mid rather than early twenties, early twenties and I would have a hell of a wait on my hands I think.

I think her knowing the language can help with emotional intimacy between us as you can relate more easily if you can tell the other how you feel more easily. The other thing is I need more contact in her life and at the moment she does not wish to see me in her home city so I cannot feel what I don't know is happening in her life.

Thing is I am not just after sex but a fulfilling relationship. I need to be part of her life fully and she part if mine but with the last girl we never really crossed that bridge. I was blocked by Visa rules from her seeing/being a part of my life here and then blocked by her me being a part of her life in her home city.

I don't see myself as any more to blame than she is , we both made mistakes and stuff worked against us. Only being with someone together a reasonable time and really being part of their life do I think one can be emotionally intimate naturally without being fake and just doing an act which again I have no interest in.

I am presently changing some practical parts of my life to try and avoid barriers like I had with last girl reoccurring and allowing me the time and manoeuvreability to bond in a relationship with a girl on a more emotionally intimate level.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 27, 2018, 02:44:59 PM
krimster, no need to give advice to him...he'll learn on his own.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 27, 2018, 02:45:34 PM
Trench you got no clue buddy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on April 27, 2018, 03:16:10 PM
Trench with the money you spent on the last girl buying her things, it would have been cheaper to just find a hooker.

You thinking she wants a UK visa as some ulterior motive is laughable.  that's why you failed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 27, 2018, 05:28:44 PM
Trench with the money you spent on the last girl buying her things, it would have been cheaper to just find a hooker.

There's Amsterdam for that but I'm not interested in that I'm interested in a serious long term relationship.

You know Sting all the aggressive posting you do on here just tells me all you have to do with your time is this forum. I don't think you are who you make out you are. I don't think you have any friends, wealth or prospects what so ever. I don't think you have a gf FSW or otherwise. I even doubt your story of having lived in Moscow. If you had anywhere near what you claim you had you would be content and not needing to onslaught yourself on others in forums such as this. I believe most of all you are an archetype of the term Troll, so please, begone.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 03:20:15 AM
Use Viagra or Cialis or something? It's $0.20 a tab here in the States if you don't have a Rx.

For some people the seedy aspect makes it better. Tell a kid don't touch the stove and they touch it. Same concept.

I've always viewed it as the guy is paying in one way or another. In Time, Dates/Food/Drinks, or cutting through all the BS and handing an envelope over. Same result and still requires currency in one form or another.

Don't DFK, and use a Condom. Also don't pick up street walkers and go with higher end escorts. Good to go.

Viagra can bring on heart attacks so even for a not so old guy it would be a last resort and quite probably a risk not worth taking.

Herpes can be caught even by wearing a condom, a condom is no use against it. Just depends if you go with a partner who carries it and transmits it. It can be transmitted through normal sex when wearing a condom since it occurs in the groin area surrounding the penis or vagina. It can be transmitted other ways as well but this is the most common/viral.

So if you go with an 'escort' who gas been around a lot and most have the more the chance of catching it. Also possible from a relationship with a girl who hasn't slept around a lot but just unlucky.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 03:30:23 AM
Quote from: krimster2 link=topic=22008.msg482009#msg482009

I live with three emotionally volatile women, three, not one...

I call them fulminite of mercury, nitroglycerin, and nitrogen-tri-iodine
they are extremely volatile!! 
liable to explode over small perturbations in the environment
some unexpected event occurs, like the family cat is runover for instance
will mean the end of the universe in a fury of fire and thunder
and woe unto he who delivers an ovation at the funeral of said cat, if it is judged to be insufficiently “moving” by fellow funeral attendees...

seriously, you have no appreciation for how simple and peaceful your life is...

This is very much worth a thought & a worthy contribution I feel. You've helped me that a lot if women are going to have some character flaw that is likely to be difficult to live with. So if a girl has one flaw it may be a blessing that she doesn't have a different flaw and consider how difficult it may be to work with a girl with a certain type of character flaw. That or look for an  exceptional woman like 2tallbill did. My thought is trying to find a girl without a character flaw and one where there is mutual chemistry may be a tall order. So is the girl still a goer with a character flaw if one can learn to deal with her character flaw? Is a question to ask myself I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 28, 2018, 06:00:46 AM
1/ Trench, you cannot be that fussy..given your options

2/ ..you are no expert on how one can catch an STI, either
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 28, 2018, 06:26:42 AM
If you and Nightwish were not so up your own rears and offered real advice about FSU dating rather than aggression and thinking your a touch above all the newbies etc then it would have not gone how it went.
Remind me again how many times you been to Ukraine, how many Ukrainian women you have dated. How long those relationships you had lasted.

Now let's compare that to my experience the last 4,5 years.

Trips to Ukraine ~40
Days spent in Ukraine - ~300
Ukrainian women I dated -  ~100
Ukrainian women I been in a relationships with -  3
First one lasted 3 months
Second one 5 months
Third one  ~16 months (and still going)


So why have I dated to many,easy - it is a numbers game to find the right one - most dates just lasted a lunch or dinner, maybe a day or two.. then I or she realized, there was no attraction or chemistry so we parted.

So why didn't the first two relationships work, well the first one ended it because she got "cold feet" about leaving Ukraine, her family, her friends, her work, her language and culture.

Second one had a son, as soon as the father found out about me and her plans, he started to try and extort money from me to "let his son go" even though he had no contact at all with him before I came in to the picture, but he was the biological father and made demands to be part of his life if I didn't pay him $5000.
When the girl I was with found out, she ended all communications with me because she did not want to put me in that situation.

Quote
You guys take anything a newbie says as an afront to your pride on everything FSU.
Nope, but when you slander a country you know nothing about and acts like an idiot, I am going to call you out on it.. you are an clueless idiot and nothing will change that.

Quote
Stop viewing everyone as outsiders who want to date a FSW, you will never be a native FSU person however better you think you are than those newbies on FSU culture, you will also at heart always be an outsider however different to others you feel about yourself. Please come down of the high lofty perch you have set yourself upon!

When you first came her with all your newbie questions I really tried to help you , giving solid advice, answering your sometimes weird questions,tried to get you on the right track, explaining everything, but you would not listen, not to a single piece of advice..  and after a given amount of time when you keep acting like a f**king child and don't take in any advice you are given or even acknowledge that you are clueless, well then I don't feel the need to try anymore.

And how ever much you want slander me and say I don't know "anything" about FSU, well that only shows what a thick dickhead you are - I refer to my experiences, I never had a wish to be native FSU, but I do have a big knowledge about the culture and how life is there. That is an interest of mine, to get all the information I can about life in Ukraine from my g/f since that is how I really understand her and understands her point of view.

Is something of this sticking to your teflon brain?  I think not and I really do not care if you understand anything I say.

The worst case scenario is when new people comes in here and you "offer expert advice" on shit you know nothing about, and they respond to that with a "thanks trench you seem to know what you are talking about" which has happened on a few occasions now, and that is simple, they look at your post count and that you are refereed to as "Hero Member" and probably thinks, "this dude know what he is talking about."

Yet your "advice" is at best daft, but most often down right idiotic and harmful to the new members in the beginning of his "journey".  Something I share with a couple of other posters - you know - the ones you can't stand and always tried to put down with personal attacks when you are called out on your idiotic remarks.

In short you can boil it down to - you are still a clueless idiot even after 1900 posts, and I am a lot better then you in all areas, I know more, I experienced more and I am still willing to learn when I find out something new, that is something you simply can’t do with your reptile brain.

but you go ahead and listen to the childgroomer Billy who seems to have become your idol, and tall2bill who even he got tired of your ignorance and no longer answers you on your post, but writes to the lurkers who read to give them a second (more correct) view on things.
and no I don't agree with everything he says either, but that is his opinion and at least his post are based on his experience  - something you lack completely.

So are you going to Russia? Ukraine? Poland? a week, a month, live there and teach (bad) English or trick women that you are photographer? Maybe as such you can get them to take their clothes of so you get new wanker material for the long winter when you an visit those places..

idiot! 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2018, 06:48:39 AM
"women are going to have some character flaw that is likely to be difficult to live with."

Trench
ALL WOMEN are difficult to live with, especially for about a week per month...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 07:06:21 AM
Remind me again how many times you been to Ukraine, how many Ukrainian women you have dated. How long those relationships you had lasted.

Now let's compare that to my experience the last 4,5 years.

Trips to Ukraine ~40
Days spent in Ukraine - ~300
Ukrainian women I dated -  ~100
Ukrainian women I been in a relationships with -  3
First one lasted 3 months
Second one 5 months
Third one  ~16 months (and still going)


So why have I dated to many,easy - it is a numbers game to find the right one - most dates just lasted a lunch or dinner, maybe a day or two.. then I or she realized, there was no attraction or chemistry so we parted.

So why didn't the first two relationships work, well the first one ended it because she got "cold feet" about leaving Ukraine, her family, her friends, her work, her language and culture.

Second one had a son, as soon as the father found out about me and her plans, he started to try and extort money from me to "let his son go" even though he had no contact at all with him before I came in to the picture, but he was the biological father and made demands to be part of his life if I didn't pay him $5000.
When the girl I was with found out, she ended all communications with me because she did not want to put me in that situation.
Nope, but when you slander a country you know nothing about and acts like an idiot, I am going to call you out on it.. you are an clueless idiot and nothing will change that.

When you first came her with all your newbie questions I really tried to help you , giving solid advice, answering your sometimes weird questions,tried to get you on the right track, explaining everything, but you would not listen, not to a single piece of advice..  and after a given amount of time when you keep acting like a f**king child and don't take in any advice you are given or even acknowledge that you are clueless, well then I don't feel the need to try anymore.

And how ever much you want slander me and say I don't know "anything" about FSU, well that only shows what a thick dickhead you are - I refer to my experiences, I never had a wish to be native FSU, but I do have a big knowledge about the culture and how life is there. That is an interest of mine, to get all the information I can about life in Ukraine from my g/f since that is how I really understand her and understands her point of view.

Is something of this sticking to your teflon brain?  I think not and I really do not care if you understand anything I say.

The worst case scenario is when new people comes in here and you "offer expert advice" on shit you know nothing about, and they respond to that with a "thanks trench you seem to know what you are talking about" which has happened on a few occasions now, and that is simple, they look at your post count and that you are refereed to as "Hero Member" and probably thinks, "this dude know what he is talking about."

Yet your "advice" is at best daft, but most often down right idiotic and harmful to the new members in the beginning of his "journey".  Something I share with a couple of other posters - you know - the ones you can't stand and always tried to put down with personal attacks when you are called out on your idiotic remarks.

In short you can boil it down to - you are still a clueless idiot even after 1900 posts, and I am a lot better then you in all areas, I know more, I experienced more and I am still willing to learn when I find out something new, that is something you simply can’t do with your reptile brain.

but you go ahead and listen to the childgroomer Billy who seems to have become your idol, and tall2bill who even he got tired of your ignorance and no longer answers you on your post, but writes to the lurkers who read to give them a second (more correct) view on things.
and no I don't agree with everything he says either, but that is his opinion and at least his post are based on his experience  - something you lack completely.

So are you going to Russia? Ukraine? Poland? a week, a month, live there and teach (bad) English or trick women that you are photographer? Maybe as such you can get them to take their clothes of so you get new wanker material for the long winter when you an visit those places..

idiot!

Your problem is Nightwish is that the majority of guys looking for a date in the FSU come from a different background to you. In this respect I come from a much similar background to the majority so can relate more to them than you. You come from a background that allows the above extensive excursions on the FSU. Most guys that are looking for a relationship in the FSU are restricted to the 7 dater, or 2 weeks or similar.

They do not have the wealth you do, nor do I, they have to hold down full time jobs, etc. They want to hear from guys that are similarly restricted on time & means bit some rich guy who can fire away at will, that is telling them nothing other than its something they can't do. They can't bet on every horse in the race and at the end of it say 'I've won!' They can only bet on one or two horses  to hope for a winner. They don't have the luxury of making mistakes our there knowing they can do something different next week, and the week after that,  and the next week, etc. They are not likely to return for a good few weeks of months. So they want to know how a 7 dayer guy goes about it and the problems he faced as a newbie. They don't want a proffessor on Ukraine to bamboozle them but a layman to which they can relate. After all that's the experience they are going to face. The common newbie errors are what they are looking to avoid.

I think you take this forum thing too seriously Nightwish try to relax about it all. I know what 2tallbill has told me and I don't dispute it. I sometimes like to explore the ins & outs of things that mag look like I haven't listened but I still very much remember and am just feeling my Wat around the situation. So I would just say give your advice and be happy in that if someone says something you think is silly to the contrary it is no skin off whatever you said.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 28, 2018, 07:37:26 AM
Your problem is..

Er,  Nightwish is in a long-term relationship...YOU aren't

Yet you really ARE daft enough to 'challenge' his advice.....

Please, after DK and Trench. .it could be a problem for newbies. .believing all British are this silly.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2018, 07:52:29 AM
Trench,

not everyone can do everything...
if you’re coming to this forum looking for feedback to be utilized to help you “improve your chances”, I think the forum has done that...

and there seems to be a universal consensus that “you need to work on yourself”

and if the tiny sliver of your personality that can be expressed on this board produces that response, imagine WHAT IT MUST BE LIKE IN “REAL LIFE” with the Ukrainian women you meet...

I know SO MANY people who made the mistake of thinking that they MUST get married and have a family and end up leaving nothing but wreckage behind them...

you might get lucky Trench in fulfilling your search, you really might...
but odds are you won’t be.
I hope you can avoid the pain you’re rushing towards...

I would look at alternatives if I were you, AND take a hard look at yourself
how did you get to where you are today?
I would get more involved with people where you live
try and make some friends, and I’d really stress getting a hobby of some sort that can force you to go out and meet new people
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on April 28, 2018, 08:24:44 AM
Quote
you keep acting like a f**king child and don't take in any advice you are given or even acknowledge that you are clueless

 :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 28, 2018, 08:39:41 AM
Your problem is Nightwish is that the majority of guys looking for a date in the FSU come from a different background to you. In this respect I come from a much similar background to the majority so can relate more to them than you. You come from a background that allows the above extensive excursions on the FSU. Most guys that are looking for a relationship in the FSU are restricted to the 7 dater, or 2 weeks or similar.


I'm not wealthy, I haven't spent any huge amount on all these trips either, with a little planning and a "go for it" spirit you can do it quite cheap.

Now first of all, I started this exactly as almost everyone else, I went to a datingsite, talked to a couple of women I liked, difference to you is, then went to see them with no real expectation, it was a first date and maybe a second/third, and maybe a rumble around in the bedroom, more often no then yes.

And that's it.. I didn't go there "in love" I went there to see if I would fall in love/feel the chemistry with the one I met. Sometimes I did, sometimes I did not.

A four day weekend cost me less then $1000, so I could make one of those once a month for the first months without problem.

Now lets see what a trip would cost you today.
Ukraine Airlines from Gatwick
Thu, 14 Jun
LGW - KBP
Sun, 17 Jun
KBP - LGW
TOTAL PRICE £190 - $ 264.58

Premier Hotel Rus 3 star hotel
3 nights with breakfast
TOTAL PRICE £136 - $ 188

3 lunch + 3 dinner + the odd coffee or tea, taxi etc...  £ 300 - $ 380
Meal for 2 People, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course   500-1000 UAH £ 14-28 / $20-40

So you see I counted a little on the high side even with £ 300 but for the sake of argument say you spend that amount.

Total £ 650-700  or  $890-950

You have 3 whole days in Ukraine and it that time you can at least ring up 3-6 dates, or focus on one or two.
You want to tell me that is expensive? You need to be wealthy to do this?
Average wage in UK is? £2500-3000 after tax?

Even if you only can go every two months you still manage 6 trips/year and can ring up 12-24 dates.. that is experience you cant read yourself to. In the summer on vacation, stay two weeks, rent an apartment for £100 and make your own food when you don't have dates.. "everything" in Ukraine is cheap compared to home.


I did exactly this, I went there, I spent time on the ground, scanning everywhere for dates,datingsites, apps (mamba & blendr) on my phone, in bars, on the street, in the park.. it's not even difficult to get a beautiful, sexy, model like woman to accept a coffee in the park and talk about life.

I have always been completely honest about why I am there and most women appreciated my advances and felt "chosen" when I approached them. Sure, I was turned down more times then I can count, but hey.. that's life. I got turned down at the local bar also in my hometown.

Quote
They do not have the wealth you do, nor do I, they have to hold down full time jobs, etc. They want to hear from guys that are similarly restricted on time & means bit some rich guy who can fire away at will, that is telling them nothing other than its something they can't do. They can't bet on every horse in the race and at the end of it say 'I've won!' They can only bet on one or two horses  to hope for a winner. They don't have the luxury of making mistakes our there knowing they can do something different next week, and the week after that,  and the next week, etc. They are not likely to return for a good few weeks of months. So they want to know how a 7 dayer guy goes about it and the problems he faced as a newbie. They don't want a proffessor on Ukraine to bamboozle them but a layman to which they can relate. After all that's the experience they are going to face. The common newbie errors are what they are looking to avoid.
and you are NOT talking for the majority of visitors here, you live in UK - 3 hours from Ukraine, most visitors here I would think are "Yankees" and they have 10-15 hours one way to Ukraine and 3-4 times the cost of a flight-ticket, so don't even try and say you talk for them.
They would have to spend your entire budget on only the ticket and a whole day travel.

Quote
I think you take this forum thing too seriously Nightwish try to relax about it all. I know what 2tallbill has told me and I don't dispute it. I sometimes like to explore the ins & outs of things that mag look like I haven't listened but I still very much remember and am just feeling my Wat around the situation. So I would just say give your advice and be happy in that if someone says something you think is silly to the contrary it is no skin off whatever you said.

no I don't take this too serious, I just call out on idiots like you who likely will ruin someone else experience with your idiotic remarks and brain-dead advice's.


Now I book my tickets long in advance, and they cost me about £130 / $170 round trip.. and I acquired so many miles with Ukraine airlines I very often gets bumped to business class..but paying for economy "wow how impressive" :D
but this is, because I have a very good reason to go there (the sex, only for the sex of course)

*disclaimer* this message could include some irony *end disclaimer*
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 09:23:22 AM

I'm not wealthy, I haven't spent any huge amount on all these trips either, with a little planning and a "go for it" spirit you can do it quite cheap.

Now first of all, I started this exactly as almost everyone else, I went to a datingsite, talked to a couple of women I liked, difference to you is, then went to see them with no real expectation, it was a first date and maybe a second/third, and maybe a rumble around in the bedroom, more often no then yes.

And that's it.. I didn't go there "in love" I went there to see if I would fall in love/feel the chemistry with the one I met. Sometimes I did, sometimes I did not.

A four day weekend cost me less then $1000, so I could make one of those once a month for the first months without problem.

Now lets see what a trip would cost you today.
Ukraine Airlines from Gatwick
Thu, 14 Jun
LGW - KBP
Sun, 17 Jun
KBP - LGW
TOTAL PRICE £190 - $ 264.58

Premier Hotel Rus 3 star hotel
3 nights with breakfast
TOTAL PRICE £136 - $ 188

3 lunch + 3 dinner + the odd coffee or tea, taxi etc...  £ 300 - $ 380
Meal for 2 People, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course   500-1000 UAH £ 14-28 / $20-40

So you see I counted a little on the high side even with £ 300 but for the sake of argument say you spend that amount.

Total £ 650-700  or  $890-950

You have 3 whole days in Ukraine and it that time you can at least ring up 3-6 dates, or focus on one or two.
You want to tell me that is expensive? You need to be wealthy to do this?
Average wage in UK is? £2500-3000 after tax?

Even if you only can go every two months you still manage 6 trips/year and can ring up 12-24 dates.. that is experience you cant read yourself to. In the summer on vacation, stay two weeks, rent an apartment for £100 and make your own food when you don't have dates.. "everything" in Ukraine is cheap compared to home.


I did exactly this, I went there, I spent time on the ground, scanning everywhere for dates,datingsites, apps (mamba & blendr) on my phone, in bars, on the street, in the park.. it's not even difficult to get a beautiful, sexy, model like woman to accept a coffee in the park and talk about life.

I have always been completely honest about why I am there and most women appreciated my advances and felt "chosen" when I approached them. Sure, I was turned down more times then I can count, but hey.. that's life. I got turned down at the local bar also in my hometown.
and you are NOT talking for the majority of visitors here, you live in UK - 3 hours from Ukraine, most visitors here I would think are "Yankees" and they have 10-15 hours one way to Ukraine and 3-4 times the cost of a flight-ticket, so don't even try and say you talk for them.
They would have to spend your entire budget on only the ticket and a whole day travel.

no I don't take this too serious, I just call out on idiots like you who likely will ruin someone else experience with your idiotic remarks and brain-dead advice's.


Now I book my tickets long in advance, and they cost me about £130 / $170 round trip.. and I acquired so many miles with Ukraine airlines I very often gets bumped to business class..but paying for economy "wow how impressive" :D
but this is, because I have a very good reason to go there (the sex, only for the sex of course)

*disclaimer* this message could include some irony *end disclaimer*

Most people don't earn the average wage here, I think it is skewed by figures of those earning massive amounts, company directors, stockbrokers, business owners, etc. A wage of around £1500 a month is what most British would be more familiar with at present. Plus remember to account to take tax of any said figure.

For sure I could be there once a month as even on my wage I could manage that even if it temporary ment a bit of overspend to later be made up. I'm not disputing that once a month is a strategy that can work out very well. To date I have tried other methods with mixed results. I'm not suggesting others do what I did. I just did what was suggested to me elsewhere, to find one woman and go meet her for a few days. No doubt there are many ways guys do this venture. I have just been asking questions on here to sound out the differing strategies.

Thank you for your input :) I will consider doing more frequent trips this year to try and see if it may work for me. I am first planning a two week trip to Lviv on early June. If no joy with this I will switch to a once a month long weekend trip and try that. It doesn't look like I will be able to do a extended stay out there as I hoped as stuff hasn't progressed in my life to allow for that, next year maybe but this year is kind of out on that one. I will give it a try and let you all know how it goes.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 28, 2018, 10:11:09 AM
Most people don't earn the average wage here, I think it is skewed by figures of those earning massive amounts, company directors, stockbrokers, business owners, etc. A wage of around £1500 a month is what most British would be more familiar with at present. Plus remember to account to take tax of any said figure.

For sure I could be there once a month as even on my wage I could manage that even if it temporary ment a bit of overspend to later be made up. I'm not disputing that once a month is a strategy that can work out very well. To date I have tried other methods with mixed results. I'm not suggesting others do what I did. I just did what was suggested to me elsewhere, to find one woman and go meet her for a few days. No doubt there are many ways guys do this venture. I have just been asking questions on here to sound out the differing strategies.

Thank you for your input :) I will consider doing more frequent trips this year to try and see if it may work for me. I am first planning a two week trip to Lviv on early June. If no joy with this I will switch to a once a month long weekend trip and try that. It doesn't look like I will be able to do a extended stay out there as I hoped as stuff hasn't progressed in my life to allow for that, next year maybe but this year is kind of out on that one. I will give it a try and let you all know how it goes.

according to the sources I found the average salary in UK is around £ 30000
That gives you a income of £ 2500 a month, but you are saying most people take home about £1500?

http://money.cnn.com/interactive/news/economy/davos/global-wage-calculator/
£33600

http://www.monster.co.uk/career-advice/article/uk-average-salary-graphs
£30500




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 28, 2018, 10:25:47 AM
Trench - if you are now attempting to downplay your earnings potential to £1500 / gross then you aren't earning enough for your lady to get a spousal visa
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on April 28, 2018, 10:37:16 AM

Please, after DK and Trench. .it could be a problem for newbies. .believing all British are this silly.


No ... only English softies living south of the Watford Gap!

Most people don't earn the average wage here, I think it is skewed by figures of those earning massive amounts, company directors, stockbrokers, business owners, etc. A wage of around £1500 a month is what most British would be more familiar with at present. Plus remember to account to take tax of any said figure.


The average UK wage is about £27,000 and will be higher in southern England!

Gosh, even my pension is over £18,000. If you are only earning £1,500 per month then the UK Settlement Visa would automatically fail!! The minimum annual income must be £18,600 for a spouse visa.

This thread is very entertaining reading whilst on holiday with my wife. Sorry, but I just had to comment on this topic.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on April 28, 2018, 10:40:49 AM
Trench - if you are now attempting to downplay your earnings potential to £1500 / gross then you aren't earning enough for your lady to get a spousal visa

@msmob apologies for duplicating your information.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 28, 2018, 11:02:43 AM
Er,  Nightwish is in a long-term relationship...YOU aren't

Yet you really ARE daft enough to 'challenge' his advice.....

Please, after DK and Trench. .it could be a problem for newbies. .believing all British are this silly.

Moby has posted repeatedly  about TC ineptitude and stupid comments  -- most of us have applauded without feeling the need to pollute every thread in confirmation -- and it has made zero impact on  TC.

Of all the people whose stories have strong parallels to my own it is Nightwish  ( and a Norwegian guy now married  whose name escapes me)  - the key part being much time on the ground and learning (& learning & learning) .  Of note --  our comments are current(not a decade old)  and are born from substantial time on the ground  .

Of note -- we were both offended at about the same time by the same comments and attitudes TC expressed ---   and over a year later -- has repeated over the last few weeks .So-- what exactly has he learnt?

Then -he has the temerity to start "advising"others -- and rationalising his arse up assumptions !Others who live in the FSU currently have offered gems -that go over his head as he chooses to run with "advice" to those that are "nice" to him!! The list of the well intentioned that have later despaired is long -very long.
None of that has made even a minor dent in the TC skull

Even today -- Nightwish has gone to the trouble of writing a simple plan outline ( btw those estimated  costs could be slashed quite easily) and all TC can do is whine negatives  about it all and why it does not suit him.

Last  -I have often said this type of search is like trying to find a needle in a haystack --but first you have to find the haystack!! ;D  Now in TC case --he has to find the planet the haystack is on !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 11:35:07 AM
according to the sources I found the average salary in UK is around £ 30000
That gives you a income of £ 2500 a month, but you are saying most people take home about £1500?

http://money.cnn.com/interactive/news/economy/davos/global-wage-calculator/
£33600

http://www.monster.co.uk/career-advice/article/uk-average-salary-graphs
£30500

30K lol I wish! To put it into perspective if you were to Google 'UK Teachers pay' you would get a salary of 23-24K for England, Wales, etc outside of London. Some get more over time after they have been in the teaching profession many years. That 23-24K is before tax.

So ask yourself if a Teacher who usually has a good possibly top class degree and then has survived and qualified teacher training is only earning that sort of money then what is most other degree qualified people in the UK on? The answer is similar money or even less in the majority of cases. Even getting selected for teacher training is difficult to get in the UK unless you are in STEM subject you don't just walk into it.

I am not a teacher it's an example I give as the salary is paid by the government so it is a fact that they get this. It's the easiest way to give you a real idea of wages everyday people get in the UK. Like I said the average wage to most Brits including myself is not reality, it's something a lot of us aim for as a high wage not the average.

Some people on the UK get into very privledged jobs as top management in councils and these will be well paid but those jobs are heavily competed over and usually go to older people or those with good connections etc.

Other proffessions such as Lawyer, Doctor, Engineer, etc are heavily fought for and usually entail long hours with similar pat to teachers until many years spent in them.

Non-professional jobs will be paid a little bit less than teachers hence the £1500 a month figure, but after tax the figure is less of a difference since the more you earn the more you get taxed.

Belive me any 30K jobs around will be very heavily competed over and only those with shed loads of experience will be selected for interview never mind the job. At 30K level most employers in the UK will be wanting to have more than their pound of blood for the money.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 28, 2018, 11:39:17 AM
Moby has posted repeatedly  about TC ineptitude and stupid comments  -- most of us have applauded without feeling the need to pollute every thread in confirmation -- and it has made zero impact on  TC.

Of all the people whose stories have strong parallels to my own it is Nightwish  ( and a Norwegian guy now married  whose name escapes me)  - the key part being much time on the ground and learning (& learning & learning) .  Of note --  our comments are current(not a decade old)  and are born from substantial time on the ground  .

Of note -- we were both offended at about the same time by the same comments and attitudes TC expressed ---   and over a year later -- has repeated over the last few weeks .So-- what exactly has he learnt?

Then -he has the temerity to start "advising"others -- and rationalising his arse up assumptions !Others who live in the FSU currently have offered gems -that go over his head as he chooses to run with "advice" to those that are "nice" to him!! The list of the well intentioned that have later despaired is long -very long.
None of that has made even a minor dent in the TC skull

Even today -- Nightwish has gone to the trouble of writing a simple plan outline ( btw those estimated  costs could be slashed quite easily) and all TC can do is whine negatives  about it all and why it does not suit him.

Last  -I have often said this type of search is like trying to find a needle in a haystack --but first you have to find the haystack!! ;D  Now in TC case --he has to find the planet the haystack is on !

Yeah I am bored today, my lady with girlfriend is on a Spa-weekend I bought her as an anniversary gift, otherwise I would either be there or spend my time chatting with her on skype as usual  :sad:

The estimated cost I laid out was I would say what I would spend on a weekend, probably a little more if it was a "first date" scenario. I would at least not have that amount as a fixed budget. It all depends on the lady you meet and what you want to do while there.
I made it a thing not to "flash" my money around and suggested mid range restaurants that got good reviews in google, but in no way be seen as cheap or saving a buck..

I could make it a thing to suggest we take the metro somewhere "because I want to see how your metro's look and for the experience, living like a Ukrainian" and most of the times the ladies where more then happy to oblige. And when this came up, they often suggested a restaurant or café that was "genuin Ukrainian" = cheap, sometimes very cheap, sometimes ridiculous cheap.. and sometimes, but rarely, not.

I can add that I know not a word of Russian, google translate was and is still my best friend when there.. and I never had any real issues because of that.. I played the "stupid foreigner" many times to get out of awkward situations and just said over and over "english?" "do you speak english?"
More often with the Police then I want to admit  ;D

Three weeks ago I was in Odessa with my girl,
Tickets there was $150
I rented an apartment right smack in the center for $100 (3 nights)
We went shopping twice at the local supermarket ~$50 for the food and water, 4 bottles of wine.
Went out for coffee a couple of times and lunch twice ~$25
Taxi to and from the airport $3

and that was it..that's all I spent 3,5 days in Ukraine with my girl: $ 330 or £240

and I can only do this because I am wealthy you say Trench?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on April 28, 2018, 11:39:42 AM
To put it into perspective if you were to Google 'UK Teachers pay' you would get a salary of 23-24K for England, Wales, etc outside of London. Some get more over time after they have been in the teaching profession many years. That 23-24K is before tax.

Hmmm, I did that and it comes up as 37k average with 42k in London.

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-43604858 (http://www.bbc.com/news/education-43604858)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 11:41:18 AM
Trench - if you are now attempting to downplay your earnings potential to £1500 / gross then you aren't earning enough for your lady to get a spousal visa

I can get over the 18.5k or whatever for a spousal visa since I presently only work a 30 hour week. At the moment I am doing a building project the rest of the week that should bring in a lot more money than working the extra hours though the only problem with this is that it won't show up as salary as it's a Capital gain.

So you see I'm constantly pulled between issues of time, money and basically problems trying to make it all work.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 11:44:49 AM
Hmmm, I did that and it comes up as 37k average with 42k in London.

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-43604858 (http://www.bbc.com/news/education-43604858)

Outside of London 23-24K. It's more in London because of the crazily absorbantant cist of housing. It's that much in London as they were finding Teachers couldn't afford to live there on the more meagre salary that was closer to outside if London that they were paying a number of years back. Just look up the cost of property in London, particularly central London and you will be stunned.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2018, 11:48:47 AM
" absorbantant cist of housing."

i've heard of housing a "bubble" is a cist like that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 28, 2018, 11:49:16 AM
This is very much worth a thought & a worthy contribution I feel. You've helped me that a lot if women are going to have some character flaw that is likely to be difficult to live with. So if a girl has one flaw it may be a blessing that she doesn't have a different flaw and consider how difficult it may be to work with a girl with a certain type of character flaw. That or look for an  exceptional woman like 2tallbill did. My thought is trying to find a girl without a character flaw and one where there is mutual chemistry may be a tall order. So is the girl still a goer with a character flaw if one can learn to deal with her character flaw? Is a question to ask myself I'm thinking.


Everybody has character flaws.  That's what makes us human. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 01:11:19 PM

Everybody has character flaws.  That's what makes us human.

Yes but there's flaws and then flawed. How would you enjoy being with a volatile person that goes of on one at every little thing with a big emotional discharge that is both uncalled for, overwhelming and very stressful for others to be around. I'm not talking minor little quirks here or getting picky over the occasional wrong actions of the other but personalities that can make it very difficult for the other person to be in a relationship with them long term if not impossible.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 28, 2018, 01:19:12 PM
If you can't handle emotional outbursts, Slavs, in general are not for you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 28, 2018, 01:24:27 PM
If you can't handle emotional outbursts, Slavs, in general are not for you.

I will simplify that for you:
If you can't handle emotional outbursts, women, in general are not for you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2018, 01:43:37 PM
when women start mainlinein’ estrogen
and it just passes the blood/brain barrier
you better be safely behind the fortifications of your main cave!

   WORD!

also talking about hormonal perversion
young women produce more testosterone then old men!!!

guys!! watch out!!!
nahhhh! just kiddin’ you’re safe!!!!

Trench? are you for real or just trolling us after all, I’m beginning to think you’re trolling us, so what’s your REAL STORY????

if I catch you, you gotta “fess up” and tell the truth, that’s the rule...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 01:59:17 PM
If you can't handle emotional outbursts, Slavs, in general are not for you.

It varies, it may sound bad but some women crease me up when they are peeved. They pull such funny faces and are kind of amusing in their little strop. Others though range between emotional nutters to just downright scary.

I always say that the ideal women is one that to the man whines like a well oiled machine when she's moaning ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 28, 2018, 02:11:53 PM
And this comes from your vast experience with one woman for what, a week?


The ideal man is one who has the emotional intelligence to deal with her.  No offence intended, but you're not there yet.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 02:19:03 PM
Trench? are you for real or just trolling us after all, I’m beginning to think you’re trolling us, so what’s your REAL STORY????

if I catch you, you gotta “fess up” and tell the truth, that’s the rule...

All of what I tell you about my story both now and in the past is real. Why would I make it up? I would be making up problems I did not have to solve. I could just proceex mice and simple with everything straight forward.

If you are referring to my lifestyle/economic situation as above I assure you its all real. Life in the UK is not as easy one, you have to try and get to a position where it becomes easier. Jobs do not just fallout of the sky, even basic paid jobs you may lose out on getting many a time even if you have many qualifications and/or qualities. UK Employers are looking to employ workers alays at the cheapest rate possible. Some of the best companies to work for in the UK as US companies, they usually pay much more, give lots of training ate pleasant to work for and are generous to their staff. Alas, they are few and far between ad there are not that many US companies in the UK.

Not wishing to start Mobers off again but it is another reason many voted to leave the EU, the supply of labour from Eastern Europe is surpressing wage growth.

For me I can make more money out of the capital gain from a small building job, i.e buying and renovating a small house in a year than I would on my salary working twice the number of hours I presently do. In fact if far outstrips that. That is how miserly UK employers are, EU employers not a lot better. Still even the money I get from my salaried job far outstrips a lot of the girls wages in Ukraine, but yes I am as a result of the UK economy very much a Capital gain earning type of person than a salary earning type of person.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 02:20:23 PM
The ideal man is one who has the emotional intelligence to deal with her.  No offence intended, but you're not there yet.

Accepted.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 02:31:35 PM
Kind of goes back to the second of the two main issues with last girl I met that I highlighted earlier. That of the shopping spree mentality, I think I could handle this better now having thought it though and may even be able to use it to turn a negative into a plus. Worst case scenario what I have in mind would have no effect and she would be a no go or come up with another way to deal with her.

In the short term though I think it's best to put her to one side and see if there are other girls that might slot into me more easily and on that Nightwish might well have the right way forward so it's worth a shot I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 28, 2018, 02:46:15 PM
You still don't get it.  The shopping spree is for a woman who has a particular mentality.  You are going with your assumptions, from your society, and trying to apply them there.  It doesn't work.  A UM would buy a woman things on a shopping trip if he just wants to shag her for a night, a week, a month.  He would know that she is not a serious prospect.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 03:04:54 PM
You still don't get it.  The shopping spree is for a woman who has a particular mentality.  You are going with your assumptions, from your society, and trying to apply them there.  It doesn't work.  A UM would buy a woman things on a shopping trip if he just wants to shag her for a night, a week, a month.  He would know that she is not a serious prospect.

So your telling me the particular mentality of the girl was that she was willing to give sex but thought she should be bought stuff in return?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 28, 2018, 03:07:19 PM
It's broader than that.  You can find the same in the UK, North America, anywhere else.  Just the language and the goods differ.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 03:16:41 PM
It's broader than that.  You can find the same in the UK, North America, anywhere else.  Just the language and the goods differ.

She said that we were in a serious relationship and asked if I agreed which I did as that is what I wanted. It looked to me that she was after a permanent relationship. So are you saying that her needs in the relationship was clothes shopping and sex together was all bunfled up into that, yet I assume still saw it as a going concern relationship wise, as a serious relationship?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 28, 2018, 03:18:30 PM
No, that's not what I am saying.

She manipulated you with the "serious relationship" line.  She used what she thought would work with you.

You probably have not had experiences with women in the UK with similar mentalities.

ETA - I don't think you will be successful in this venture until you sort yourself out.  I suggest you work on your property, and date UK women - not with a view to a serious relationship or marriage, but just to get more experience with women.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2018, 06:09:26 PM
Trench

in my judgement, it would be hard to bring up and support a family like this, as much as I love my own family, if I were in your situation, I wouldn't go down this path
the odds of success are too small and honestly I think you're wasting the prime of your life over this and should date locally
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 28, 2018, 08:10:05 PM
No, that's not what I am saying.

She manipulated you with the "serious relationship" line.  She used what she thought would work with you.

You probably have not had experiences with women in the UK with similar mentalities.

ETA - I don't think you will be successful in this venture until you sort yourself out.  I suggest you work on your property, and date UK women - not with a view to a serious relationship or marriage, but just to get more experience with women.

She probably did use it to get what she wanted, but she also seems serious in wanting to find someone to have children with, I pressed her on this after our time together/our disagreement over the visa and she restated it and I guess no reason to lie as it was after we had parted.

I know a woman in the UK who sponges of men (I don't date/have never dated her) Quite often the guy does buy her stuff or give her money for this or that. A few weeks later she gets dumped, it's basically nearly always the guy that dumps her but she can't understand why. She has talked to me and seems genuinely upset (emotional) about it (don't worry I am not interested in dating her, she's too young for me as early to mid twenties). She doesn't tell me she sponges of guys (I know this from others and pretty certain they are being straight up). She says it always goes the same way a guy tells her he is so into her, deeply loves her, but  they all end up dumping her. Yet she seems oblivious as to why she keeps getting dumped. Could my situation be similar?

UK dating is difficult at best, the women of Match, Plenty of Fish etc are full of problem women and even they are unindated with guys wanting to date them. Basically they are all the women that struggle to get any guy hit in them offline so they go online. Even if you get the odd one that is not to move bad say a divorcee she will certainly be swamped with guys contactin her online. It's a hopeless task for any guy on those sites remorselessly banging messages away on the keyboard.

Trying to date girls offline is very difficult also. You have to hit on a girl without knowing if she has a bf - she usually does if she is anywhere near just slightly attractive. In addition you don't know her age, it's easy to get carried away and start looking at too young girls in their late teens & early twenties and to be honest it is not always easy to tell. With older women most would probably be sorted with a guy, possibly married, have kids, etc. Chatting women up is also not easy. Many other UK guys are up against the same issues, I hear this all the time so believe me I am not alone on this. I would nor be looking in the FSU if there was any go on the home scene. Even with its issues and the problems I and WM have in general dating in the FSU if really is the only viable option.

The property stuff etc is coming along so I am confident I can do well enough financially on that front in the medium to long run. That is why I didn't do any FSU time during the winter to work on the property. I have to get some time in now in the FSU as at 40 I am running out of time for a woman that can easily have and want children. As someone rightfully said past 45 you start getting past peak and interested FSW of a childbearing age will start to drop off. I think on this score Nightwish has actually come up with a sound enough idea to do long weekends. This will not stop me working on my property but also let me meet women so I have time to get to know them. So I will just have to keep living and learning as they say and hope it comes good.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2018, 08:58:38 PM
my suggestion about dating in the UK...
practice speaking with an American accent,
it worked for me!
but of course, I am REALLY GOOD at it!!!!!
can only speak about Cambridge, Milton Keynes, Oxford region, which is not a big region and well outside London
heavily skewed because of the Universities and high tech
the women there totally dug a "rugged" American guy in his early 40s
(pity I was married...)
so I wonder how you'd do in the USA?
do you have a charming accent or visage?

I'm curious, where do the women all flock to where you live?
do they have clubs?  pubs?
why not organize a party for St. Trench day at the local pub and invite strange women!
remember! a stranger is just a friend we don't know yet!

is there some kind of out door market place?
look at the single women, what are they looking at

with embarrassment, I must confess that when I was in college, I used to put on one of my father's tailored suits and would try to "get picked-up" by older women at the "Met", had mixed success...

my advice...

you're a hunter
learn to freakin hunt...







Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2018, 09:59:24 PM
what man can prevail...
when all the stars are aligned against him...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 28, 2018, 10:11:44 PM


UK dating is difficult at best,

Trench, not for the first time I say you are bs'ing. That you find it hard just isn't surprising given your attitude.



Trying to date girls offline is very difficult also.

No...it's not.

Women seeking a guy clearly see you as either desperate or 'greedy', I base this on your posts .




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 28, 2018, 10:14:34 PM
what man can prevail...
when all the stars are aligned against him...

You can't see the stars when you're buried at the back of a cave ...  :wallbash:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 28, 2018, 10:36:16 PM
hi ladies,
   I’m a lonely American researcher working here in Southern England on new pediatric medical treatments.

my hobbies are art collecting and the culinary arts and traveling

I am tall, broad shouldered, with dark blond hair beginning to turn  gray at the temples with blue eyes, framed by a kind, pleasant face...

I am looking for a woman who wants to live life to its fullest and holds nothing back

am I am the man for you?
what if I am, and you let me pass by and another woman meets me instead of you?

are you curious?

contact me at “House next to Trench” and “I will meet a woman before he does in his own home town” lane next to “so Trench you better get out there and do something” street
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 29, 2018, 12:16:48 AM
Kind of goes back to the second of the two main issues with last girl I met that I highlighted earlier. That of the shopping spree mentality,

Let us have a closer look at that "shopping" spree.
You have never answered this question  --exactly what was bought? What were the  individual costs of the items ? What was the total outlay?
Let us all see what YOU have spent so much time making a big big deal over.
Don't try and slide over the answer -- you are far to tight to not know the answers.


Now --I would bet money--good money -- that the answer is nothing like $???? .00
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2018, 01:20:09 AM
Let us have a closer look at that "shopping" spree.
You have never answered this question  --exactly what was bought? What were the  individual costs of the items ? What was the total outlay?
Let us all see what YOU have spent so much time making a big big deal over.
Don't try and slide over the answer -- you are far to tight to not know the answers.


Now --I would bet money--good money -- that the answer is nothing like $???? .00

I will try to check back on my bank statement and give you the sum when I can. I can't do it today as busy/awkward time, but in the next fews days I will try to manage it and put the sums up here.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2018, 01:25:36 AM
hi ladies,
   I’m a lonely American researcher working here in Southern England on new pediatric medical treatments.

my hobbies are art collecting and the culinary arts and traveling

I am tall, broad shouldered, with dark blond hair beginning to turn  gray at the temples with blue eyes, framed by a kind, pleasant face...

I am looking for a woman who wants to live life to its fullest and holds nothing back

am I am the man for you?
what if I am, and you let me pass by and another woman meets me instead of you?

are you curious?

contact me at “House next to Trench” and “I will meet a woman before he does in his own home town” lane next to “so Trench you better get out there and do something” street

In the FSU you will get response to your profile statement. In the UK most guys get zero response to their profile statement and in addition have to sit at PC writing out endless personalised letters to girls all night long, might after night to which there is rarely any response. I got lucky once and actually got a response to my profile on Match and we actually met up after a bit if correspondence but there was no chemistry there. This is rare as most guys get zero response from profile alone and have to do teeth chasing online to even attempt to get any response.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 29, 2018, 01:58:49 AM
In the FSU you will get response to your profile statement. In the UK most guys get zero response to their profile ...

More Trench BS

Never had any problems getting responses.

I slways wrote a direct profile,  never mentioning my financial status..just the type of woman I sought.

If you aren't getting hits..you are doing something WRONG
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2018, 03:57:10 AM
More Trench BS

Never had any problems getting responses.

I slways wrote a direct profile,  never mentioning my financial status..just the type of woman I sought.

If you aren't getting hits..you are doing something WRONG

I think there are a few more women in the west of England. Age group may make a difference also. I think most people write direct profiles. I changed my profile many time to see if it would make a difference. The stuff I mentioned isn't unique to me many men in the UK (and I think the US & elsewhere) also find the same issues - writing a ton of messages and getting nil response. The ladies likewise complain it feels like they are getting spam they get so many messages. I know what it's like from the female side now as on some FSU dating sites (not talking ppl) you get quite a few messages from women that would not interest - not attracted to looks, a bit on the old side, have kids, etc. So I can see what they mean that they don't have time to spend on those profiles that they don't take to, which if course will a log of them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 06:13:36 AM
there must exist within you some “redeeming value” Trench, some virtue...
however, it seems to be extremely well concealed...

honestly, if I were you, I would not look for love in the FSU
I don’t think you’re going to find it there...
instead, I’d “up my game” and remain local...
it’s “you” who are the problem, the main impediment to your own success
until you work on developing yourself...
you will remain stuck where you are...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on April 29, 2018, 06:29:20 AM
Trench if you're just sending a "hello how are you" opening  message to local women, you're going to struggle.  You have to be unique and think outside the box,  to stand out from the other men.

After struggling and a lot trial and error,  I found an opener that works more often than not..... Popular Love song lyrics written in Shakespearean verse. It shows a sense of humor and a little intelligence over the other boring openers and dick pics.

Van Halen was a big hit and always got a reply :)

"Oh h're t cometh
yond comical humour again winding me up inside
ev'ry timeth we toucheth
ho i knoweth not
oh, bid me wh're to beginneth causeth i nev'r ev'r
hath felt so much

and i can't recall any loveth at all
baby this blows 'em all hence

t's did get what t doth take
so bid me wherefore can't this beest loveth?
straight from mine own heart
oh, bid me wherefore can't this beest loveth?"
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on April 29, 2018, 06:36:13 AM
Trench,

Perhaps you should look at your strong points. My opinion your are persistent, resilient and stubborn.

Persistent = You keep on trying.

Resilient = Adversary and rejection is brushed aside.

Stubborn = You have failed and ignore advice.

Of course this is easy to do when one is a key board jockey.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 07:31:17 AM
"so bid me wherefore can't this beest loveth?"

this..worked...???
damnnnnnnnn...
would not have thought that...





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 08:13:42 AM
Trench,
 
I DON’T understand why you don’t like British Women!!!
I’ve flirted with quite a few, but never past that...
they were all women I’d be quite eager to sleep with, just the thought of them whispering into my ear all the things they’d want me to do to them while caressing my inner ear with their moist tongue... (oh my!!)

I wonder how dating British women compares to dating American women?

one thing not discussed on this board, I fear because most of the Americans on this board are “conservative” is the issue of “giving oral pleasure” to a woman...

when you’re dating a 30ish American woman, she will demand this as the first token of sexuality from you... and you’d better be a master at this... or she will judge you to be sexually incompatible...  British women, I don’t know, it never went that far for me...

OTOH, 20ish yr Ukrainian women DID NOT expect this, and when provided, were surprised, based on auditory feedback I only wish I could have see their faces...

no problems for you with this Trench, am I right?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2018, 08:23:16 AM
Trench,

Perhaps you should look at your strong points. My opinion your are persistent, resilient and stubborn.

Persistent = You keep on trying.

Resilient = Adversary and rejection is brushed aside.

Stubborn = You have failed and ignore advice.

Of course this is easy to do when one is a key board jockey.

Thanks Bd ;D

I think that's pretty much me out of the keyboard jockey position too. Of course not all is seen or is always a positive but I guess it can work in certain circumstances.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2018, 08:27:07 AM
there must exist within you some “redeeming value” Trench, some virtue...
however, it seems to be extremely well concealed...

honestly, if I were you, I would not look for love in the FSU
I don’t think you’re going to find it there...
instead, I’d “up my game” and remain local...
it’s “you” who are the problem, the main impediment to your own success
until you work on developing yourself...
you will remain stuck where you are...

Simply a case of FSU dating sites I get response and dates, UK (western) dates I don't. So to get responses and dates is better than not at all. I know the learning curve is steeper now because of cultural differences buthat I have no alternative plus FSW are a lot better quality than you find on UK dating sites pound for pound.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 08:32:10 AM
" pound for pound."

I take it that this is not about money!
yeah makes sense, because you're comparing 20ish FSU vrs 30ish British, even in FSU this happens

play a better game Trench
and don't just take your current game to a different field


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2018, 09:06:50 AM
" pound for pound."

I take it that this is not about money!
yeah makes sense, because you're comparing 20ish FSU vrs 30ish British, even in FSU this happens

play a better game Trench
and don't just take your current game to a different field

Even for the same ages FSW are better. Admittedly, I am who I am, my 'game' has never been at all good but UK are very awkward, they will not make it easy even for a guy they are interested in. In fact many will humiliate a guy if he tries to chat her up. It's all to heavy going. I have looked at my 'game' before and how to improve but I don't think I ever will, it's just not my thing.

I get the impression you are perhaps African American Krimster. A lot of black guys I think game comes pretty naturally or develops easy. Black guys are often good talkers I think, a bit like they have a thing for rythym in music, dancing, etc. Muslim guys too can be good with talk though perhaps too forward for some girls sometime I think. Anyway as a white guy I have two left feet when it comes to game I think that's why I don't do puck up artist stuff it's just not me.

The odd guy I know without game have had success at online UK dating sites but they were after fatties - not a scene I'm remotely into >:(
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 09:19:01 AM
"I get the impression you are perhaps African American Krimster."

fair skinned blond graying hair, blue eyes
mixed Anglo-Russian Ashkenazic ancestry

I just think it's amusing to talk like a 'bro, er 'bro

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on April 29, 2018, 09:20:44 AM
The odd guy I know without game have had success at online UK dating sites but they were after fatties - not a scene I'm remotely into >:(

I don't know much about this concept of game.

I do know that because I was married to first wife for a very long time and had not even cheated, I was somewhat worried about my ability to join the dating scene.  I had not the slightest knowledge about how to woo a woman into a relationship.

However, to my surprise and relief, I had not even a tiny bit of trouble.
I realized that my high level of interaction with women of all ages and professional level during my consulting days had (unintentionally) led me to be completely comfortable with all women.

I had always treated women with respect regarding their intelligence and varied situations, and had a natural gift for humor and small talk about many topics.

So the transition from business dealings with women to romance with women was entirely painless and enjoyable; and I never even tried to attain any particular 'game' skills, whatever that means.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 09:40:19 AM
Trench

sometimes you can compensate for a shortage of one quality for an abundance of something else...

in your case, no “flash”, PLUS no “rhythm” is a major deficit for you to overcome...
what ‘quality’ do you have to plug into these “holes”?
hopefully your “good looks”???
otherwise, you know that feeling you got when the women you met just “didn’t meet your expectations”
can you guess what their opinion is of you???

I’ll say it one last time, Trench
“Improve Your Game, and don’t just change the field you're playing in"

ML,

“game” is actually old "Black English" idiom from the 90‘s it’s since been replaced by “flow”
but even flow is probably “stale”, I'm not up to date on the subject, haven't been to south Philly in ages...

“he got game” - means someone with a high degree of skill
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 09:54:18 AM
Trench’s problem is not about some particular issue with some particular woman in Ukraine

Trench’s problem is “he got no game”

how does a player play the game, if “he got no game”

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on April 29, 2018, 11:38:06 AM
Trenchcoat after reading about your inability to not be able to date in the FSU and locally in the UK I'm being reminded of a mass murder that happened recently in Toronto, Canada.

The murder suspect used a rental van to run down and kill 10 people mostly women while injuring many more. His apparent reason was literally that he couldn't get a date and get laid. He is apparently a member of a group called incels aka "involuntarily celibate". I'd never heard about incels and had to look up the meaning of the term.

The more I hear about how your future wife has to be "into you" and has to be this and that the more I'm convinced that you're also an incel. The simple fact is if you find dating in the UK awkward, traveling to the FSU to find a date is well beyond your abilities.

Trenchcoat are you an incel?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-suspect-in-toronto-van-attack-described-as-socially-awkward-tech/
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=incel
http://www.racked.com/2018/4/28/17290256/incel-chad-stacy-becky
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 11:39:02 AM
the art of seduction...
is a complicated game Trench!!!

and you have no skills in this game, no wonder you can't win!
why don't you see that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 12:13:03 PM
Trench,

you think, “you got it bad”?
I would love to have your life, living by myself in quiet solitude in the English countryside, I would just go for a walk and breathe the fresh air...

I’m married to a 6‘1“ Russian woman who just hit her “second sexual prime”...
when I aim at this target, I better hit it, or it sure as hell is going to hit me instead...

not to mention two blond Russian-American teenage daughters, and the cohorts of teenage boys who hang around my pool, but don’t do anything useful, and who don’t even to try and curry my favor...

you see how bitter-sweet life can be...

are there any forests near your home?

a quiet English forest...
sad and melancholy...
is where you will find me...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2018, 03:14:42 PM
Trenchcoat after reading about your inability to not be able to date in the FSU and locally in the UK I'm being reminded of a mass murder that happened recently in Toronto, Canada.

No I have told you I can date in the FSU and have done at least twice, three times if you count the dinner date girl. I have already just said I can get dates in the FSU that's why I go there. In the UK it's a different story, there was the girl from match where we met up for a couple of hours or so if you call that a date. No I am not an incel but action in the UK is in that direction.

I think a lot of you on here overstate my situation I am not severely impaired socially, I have no problems conversing with people in general. I can hold conversation like most people but I am not a socially savvy sort of guy. I don't light up a room when I enter it by being a real presence. A lot of guys don't some guys walk into a room of people and within moments are the centre of attention.

I'm just a normal guy among many normal guys in the UK that don't get any real action here. The same is true in the US I believe, it's just the way society has gone. If you watch the Netflix documentary 'Love Me' it features guys that also don't get any action with women (in the US). It's pretty common these days in western society. The guys in the documentary are apart from the odd issue normal everyday guys. I am like that a normal everyday guy that gets no action at home. One guy on the documentary an NRA gun nut got a girl. He came across as pretty much a non starter socially and he managed it. Partly there is luck invloved and also it's a numbers game it seems - he had previously meet about 60 odd women in the FSU I think ithe was over about 9 yrs, 6 trips of whatever. I would say even I am better socially than he was, not by a long way, not a lot but still better. I'm also in better shape and have a full head of hair.

Thing about the stick you mention is that it highlights how bad western society has become. It's become so bad that men even from all the way iN the US & Canada are willing to endure a long haul flight and expensive trip all the way to the other side of the wored to meet women. We should be asking g ourselves how western society has gotten so bad that this has become necessary.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 03:29:00 PM
"I can get dates in the FSU that's why I go there. "

you'd better be getting a lot MORE THAN JUST DATES for your efforts in Ukraine...
I'm just sayin' though that if you're having "serial strike outs"
for the same effort and cost you could spend a few days w/ escorts in Odessa
and have guaranteed success
and maybe achieve some kind of insight from the experience...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2018, 03:36:23 PM
Trench,

you think, “you got it bad”?
I would love to have your life, living by myself in quiet solitude in the English countryside, I would just go for a walk and breathe the fresh air...

I’m married to a 6‘1“ Russian woman who just hit her “second sexual prime”...
when I aim at this target, I better hit it, or it sure as hell is going to hit me instead...

not to mention two blond Russian-American teenage daughters, and the cohorts of teenage boys who hang around my pool, but don’t do anything useful, and who don’t even to try and curry my favor...

you see how bitter-sweet life can be...

are there any forests near your home?

a quiet English forest...
sad and melancholy...
is where you will find me...

Exactly your daughters are no doubt hot, hence why they have lots of guys drowning after them. They probably have a slim figure and at least quite pretty looking no doubt from good genes passed on. They are probably in the top tier, possibly top of the girls at their school for the most attractive popular girls that most guys lust after. They probably outstrip even the more pretty American American girls at theor school. You have done them a big favour by getting with a no doubt hot Russian lady. The guys hanging sound your pool are evidence of their hotness and popular position. It also shows the number of guys ie demand there us for these types of hot girls in US society - a load of guys chasing too few hot women. And people here wondered why I had hang ups about taking my pretty Ukrainian girl back to the UK.

The guys that hang out by the pool won't try and curry your favour btw that is a sure faux pas at that age and will destroy their chances with the girls. See my social awareness is not that bad ;)

Yes there are a few English forests near me, ome just literally down the road :) It's nice to get out there but rarely do I always busy with something else. I also have heathland nearby with great views over my town it's very scenic. I sometimes go there mostly when I'm down as it gets me away from it all. Haven't been there in a while either so you reminding me will likely prompt me too! :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 29, 2018, 03:47:59 PM
"I can get dates in the FSU that's why I go there. "

you'd better be getting a lot MORE THAN JUST DATES for your efforts in Ukraine...
I'm just sayin' though that if you're having "serial strike outs"
for the same effort and cost you could spend a few days w/ escorts in Odessa
and have guaranteed success
and maybe achieve some kind of insight from the experience...

The last girl I was with I learnt a lot from being with her, that was one of the plus sides. She also caused a lot of confusion and questions for me and on that one the guys & girls on this forum have really helped me out a lot :) I think I'm best of for the moment just hitting up team ladies oit there and continuing to learn and enjoy from the experience. I'm just not an escort type of guy, many of the pro daters out there are apparently escorts and a they also pop up on the romance tours out there also apparently. It's just not a scene I'm interested in, I feel I can learn all I wish to/need to through regular dating out there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 29, 2018, 04:50:51 PM
The guys that hang out by the pool won't try and curry your favour btw that is a sure faux pas at that age and will destroy their chances with the girls. See my social awareness is not that bad ;)


No, it proves your social awareness is flawed.  Teens of that age typically are intimidated by parents.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 05:15:53 PM
I really do try and limit the amount of intimidation I dish out to young males
(unlike some people...)

none of the "cadets" who orbit around my daughters have much of a "clue" about anything...
at first, their existence was annoying, what with me being able to somehow 'divine' their intentions and all...
which most certainly were not 'honorable'...

earlier, I had falsely believed that my position as father to the hottest girl in 11th grade, would bestow upon me some kind of "perk"
like a car wash or something or at least a "pick up" of empty trash around the pool, or some other service performed by a legion of hopeful teenage boys..
but thus far, have received only disappointment...

in such a sea of mediocrity
how hard is it for one of them to create an island...








Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 29, 2018, 08:19:32 PM
well Trench,


you should learn to play the acoustic guitar
if you learn how to play 3 chords, C, F, G, you can play about 90% of songs, it's just get the rhythm for each song, but just those 3 chords
you could learn to play 1 or 2 songs in 3 months

did you ever see a poor little puppy for sale in the pet store?
look like him, but play the guitar!

there is I know a deeper story to you Trench
by any chance did you grow up without a father?
or was it your mother...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: northkape on April 30, 2018, 04:33:14 AM
Don't be to hard on Trench guys :-)
Not that I think he cares anyway, maybe the most trash repellant guy ever on this forum.
Being continually gunned down, he is still able to stand up, and voice his opinions, without shooting back.

Trench,,,,,
Contrary to a lot of the others here, I think you have some rather good personal qualities also.
Traits that will make you a reasonably good partner, for a young Ukraine woman wanting to start a family with children.

One is, that you are able to handle criticism very well and stay reasonable in your answers,
while at the same time standing up for your own views, whether they are "correct" or not.
This belief you have in yourself, is an advantage and something most women consider a "positive".
The correctness of your beliefs can always be adjusted, as you learn more, the trait is still good.
Work on downplaying your uncomfortable social "fear", and try elevating your keyboard "self confidence" to validity in real life also.
Your obsession with all things economic, isn't all bad either, and a good Ukraine woman will go alongside you in the quest for financial balance.

Stop analysing about cultural differences, and how FSU women are or not. It has no meaning on an individual level.
Women have all kind of different personalities. Some of them hardwired, not changeable, and then some traits that can be grown / adjusted, by her desire to do so.
I would look out for those hardwired traits; drop non intimate, negativity, laziness, and so on ... 

When first meeting with a woman, after having looked into her eyes, and feeling comfortable with what you see, ask what she wants.
Meeting in a restaurant, what she would like to have for drinking (to start with); water, coffee, glass of wine, or,,,,,,,
If not in a restaurant, where she would like to go, or what to do; restaurant, walk in the park, or,,,,
When sitting down, sit beside her,,,, when walking be close beside her,,, faces meeting, look straight at her with a neutral friendly smile.
At start of conversing, small talk first about weather, how she or you arrived, how was her day,,,, look straight into her eyes every now and then when you talk...
Remember to talk slowly with a slight pause between words. Be aware that she might not understand more than half of what you are saying.
Having problems finding things to talk about, and feeling somewhat awkward about first time conversation with a stranger, take her for a walk (you lead).
When weather permits, outside,,,, otherwise inside a museum, shopping center :-), or,,,,
What you see around you, will provide a long list of subjects to talk about, questioning her about and so on.
And walking gives you many opportunities to touch; her hand across a street or her shoulder when pointing at something.
Her reaction to touching, will tell you how comfortable she is to being intimate with you. I always dropped those that had problems with touching.

With your worries about economy, look for a woman with a skill, where she can start working her own business from home immediately.
Hairdresser (for women or maybe for pets; dogs) Cosmetic treatments, skin, nails,,, Home cleaning, for private or airbnb as an example.
Also sewing, catering, cake baking, and so on.
A rudimentary web page (with Google Adwords) / Facebook page, with competitive prices and contact info will usually give her a lot of work :-)
These are some examples I have seen personally, that FSU women have done when marrying men, unable to fully support their wife economically here in Norway.

Norwegian so-so men in their 40-50s that just married a beautiful young FSU woman found on a dating site, without ever reading a forum or analysing anything at all.
Like half ending in a divorce after a few years, some lasting with kids and all, now closing in on 15-20 years among those I'm familiar with.

I had relationships with A+ 9-10 women, that were considerable younger than me, throughout all of my adult life. Norwegian till 40s and FSU after that.   
When talking with women I were interested in, I always included them in a vision about what their future life could look like,
what a fantastic world is waiting for them outside their door, and how far they could go, if they wanted to and were willing to give it a try.
And they did, and succeeded in having, when considering their foundation, almost unbelievable careers in their lives.
Which I'm sure my present Ukraine wife will accomplish also when her time is due :-)

You could do the same Trench, but make the vision, a family with kids living in harmony together with their loving parents.
These kind of dreams will catch the imagination of almost all women, with a magnetic pull towards you, "the provider of their future" :-)

Forget about smaller cities like Lvov. Target Kiev with surrounding districts, and the cities within two hours: Zhytomir, Tsjernihiv, Bila Tsverka, Tsjerkassy ++.
This will ease logistics a lot, and use several dating sites to line up more meetings than you can handle, as there will be cancellations.
A rental car works wonders for a strategy like this. And if you are cheapskate like me, I slept in the car every night, to save on accommodation.

If you haven't read it already, you can read my story here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.0






 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2018, 04:58:36 AM
“One is, that you are able to handle criticism very well and stay reasonable in your answers,”

yes, if you plan on living with a woman, you better learn “how to handle criticism” you’ll receive quite a bit LOL!!  Trench, has that down!!! poor guy...
Trench has remained calm throughout - that’s a good quality for once a relationship starts

“Cosmetic treatments, skin, nails,,”

my wife turned her interest in skin care into starting her own skin care salon, and is making her own cosmetics now - she loves this - it gives her purpose now that kids are nearly grown

“ Target Kiev with surrounding districts, and the cities within two hours:”

add to the list of local satellite towns:
Chernigov, Nezhin
there’s good hunting here
but I’d also include Odessa further south

I am sympathetic to Trench, I hope this experience contributes to his personal growth and I hope he finds his soul mate


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2018, 08:37:07 AM
Don't be to hard on Trench guys :-)


NK--my apologies --it was you I was referring to a few posts back.
Numerous common strategies-- the main one was meet ,meet,meet & then see ! And make a fair effort in the process.

On TC -- you probably have not bother read reading all his nonsense ,and you have missed a major point --he does  not want children .
That is a very important point --and very specific to your comments.

Generally speaking -the NorthKape story is one of the most interesting  to read -- and his ideas and conclusions worth re reading ! ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2018, 09:14:54 AM
"and you have missed a major point --he does  not want children ."

in that case focus on women more or less his own age
LOTS of these women there!  some of them breathtakingly beautiful!
(time for another Weird Uncle Krimster Story)
when I first moved to Crimea in 2004, I was eager to take my daughters to our local beach which was about 300 yards from our apartment
you never saw two happier kids playing in the sand with each other which always drew in other nearby kids and soon they're all jabberin away in Russian and I can zone out on my ipod for awhile
my wife and I switch back in forth between who's entertaining the "dynamic duo"
and when I'm not up to bat, I can do pretty much WTF I want!
my first alone time in my first week of living there, I wanted to explore the rocky coves around the beach
they had evidence of some kind of ruins and I wanted to investigate
after spending about 10 minutes climbing over a bunch of boulders, I was able to peer down into a small hidden cove that had single inhabitant
a beautiful blond woman laying naked on a blanket
I was frozen like a deer in a headlight, and the seconds started ticking by
a droplet of sweat began to trickle down my face but I could not move
then as if by magic and on my command
she stood
and I could watch the well toned muscles of her body, every taunt muscle...
as she stood and did her morning calisthenics
a tall nordic blond, very likely a professional dancer of some kind, judging by her movements, 35-40 yr old
perfect Olympian body
but I'm married...
so I turned around and went home...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2018, 09:39:54 AM
Trench,
the lowest common denominator of womanhood
is their “secret selfish side”
which is based purely on “self-interest”

Trench, there are women in Ukraine in the 35-40 yr range
who would be willing to give up their miserable life in Ukraine
for a less miserable one in the UK
and they will be, how shall we say, both “pleasing to the eye” as well as “to the soul”
because just based on self-interest this would be their best choice to make
the trick is to look in “economically disadvantaged areas” in Ukraine
yeah, I know the whole country is an economically disadvantaged area
but believe it or not some parts of the ghetto or worse than other parts
and you my friend want to go to the very worst, to boost your chances
so forget Kyiv or Odessa - that’s for rich kids!!!

how about Novo Russia?
das right, eastern Ukraine!!!
it’s a long shot, but, hear me out!!
this is THE most economically depressed region in Eastern Europe
but I call it fertile territory
on-line almost everyone will be a scammer from here
don’t do it on-line
just go in cold - be extremely extroverted, have a “cover story”
I know within 48 hr of getting off the plane I would not be alone if I were single and your age, whatcha waitin for?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Maxx2 on April 30, 2018, 09:59:32 AM
For Trench


“Make your mistakes, take your chances, look silly, but keep on going. Don’t freeze up.” Thomas Wolfe (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/7921.Thomas_Wolfe) You Can't Go Home Again (http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/990732)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2018, 10:11:01 AM
Trench,

I know I should just let you figure out your own “cover story”, but what the hell, right...??

OK, here’s what you do, get some random picture of a really beautiful woman, in the age range you’re interested in and put it on your i-phone (must be i-phone)

learn Russian

make a story in Russian, the girl is your friend/cousin/anything but your girlfriend, and has disappeared and you’re trying to find her, approach only women the age you are interested in

ask if they recognize the girl

this story lets you speak to any woman you want with a “prepared speech”

after they say, they don’t recognize her, you can ask them a few more questions
those who are interested will stay in talk
those who aren’t interested will move on

in a busy market place you could easily screen 100 women/day

OK, now...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2018, 11:10:30 AM
"and you have missed a major point --he does  not want children ."

in that case focus on women more or less his own age


Nope-- he says that is too old for him--  he wants someone much younger ! :)

Take note you guys are doing what has been done by others a 1000 times previously--  giving him your time with reasonable sensible suggestions -- none have ever got through his head
The biggest presumption you are making  --is that he is a 'normal" guy --he  aint! :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on April 30, 2018, 11:21:54 AM

On TC -- you probably have not bother read reading all his nonsense ,and you have missed a major point --he does  not want children .

UK Spouse rules apply here! Spouse without child means TC must earn £18,600. TC would need to earn an extra £3,800 for her first child, and £2,400 for each child she has after the first child! This is a fair enough strategy if TC would struggle to earn £22,400 for spouse and her existing child!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2018, 11:43:58 AM
actually jay,
I’m afraid that this is a tragic example of the after effects of the collapse of the industrial economy created during Britain’s 19th century manufacturing boom

the closing of the mills created an economic vacuum that sucked the life out of Britain's economy, creating guys like Trench

that and the fact that he grew up in an isolated environment and had to cope with early childhood trauma, have created in Trench an existence based upon social isolation

Trench is a deeply lonely man, who in his own way, is just reaching out to his fellow human beings

can’t we all show Trench “a little love”

c’mon guys...

Trench buddy, I’m tryin’ to teach you to fish...

the idea behind fishin’ is easy!!!

ya’ got some bait
and ya’ gotta hook

that’s all it is man...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2018, 11:46:28 AM
UK Spouse rules apply here! Spouse without child means TC must earn £18,600. TC would need to earn an extra £3,800 for her first child, and £2,400 for each child she has after the first child! This is a fair enough strategy if TC would struggle to earn £22,400 for spouse and her existing child!

With all due respect -none of that has or had anything to do with his attitude to children .fwiw
He basically wants a virgin -- a girl not tainted by another man !! Let alone a child to remind him !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2018, 11:52:37 AM
Krimster -- the guy has gone out of his way to insult others here , show a total lack of empathy,insulted Ukraine and Ukrainian women & women generally ,made more inappropriate comments etc etc etc etc etc etc

Basically a  dumb cretin !

Note -- all I have done above is point out the base presumptions being made by reasonable posters --were fundamentally asked and answered long ago !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2018, 12:06:45 PM
it’s exactly like what Aristotle said...
to solve a big problem, you first divide it into separate smaller problems

so if I were trying to meet women in Eastern Ukraine, I’d divide the process into two parts:

the first part is the bait that I use to get them to take the hook
the hook is to get them to have lunch with me
then once they have lunch, to next have dinner
and then “you know”

some guys, if they’re not too old and not too unattractive can just use themselves as the bait..
otherwise you need something to break the “stranger barrier”

and that is totally up to your imagination, I have sometimes under duress had to spontaneously put on a good bit of acting pretending to be lost in front of my bank in Kyiv to attract a particular passing woman’s attention who helped “rescue me”, great was her reward, I can assure you...

I think the “Hi, I’m an Englishman searching for my cousin’s daughter” and show this super model photo on your iphone” will get some nibbles, and you just have to jerk the line at the right time

at a busy market you really could screen a 100 super model looking women/day
if only one out of 5 would let you ask questions, and only half would accept lunch
that would get you 10 lunch dates per day and your actual results would probably be better even if you were just an average guy

but seriously, everyone should be able to come up with the method they feel comfortable with,
but the goal is to dispel the stranger barrier and mistrust and fear of foreigners...
and let the attraction to a foreigner take over, if they have it...

guys, you have no idea how much fun this is, now do you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 30, 2018, 12:47:22 PM
Don't be to hard on Trench guys :-)
Not that I think he cares anyway, maybe the most trash repellant guy ever on this forum.
Being continually gunned down, he is still able to stand up, and voice his opinions, without shooting back.

Trench,,,,,
Contrary to a lot of the others here, I think you have some rather good personal qualities also.
Traits that will make you a reasonably good partner, for a young Ukraine woman wanting to start a family with children.

One is, that you are able to handle criticism very well and stay reasonable in your answers,
while at the same time standing up for your own views, whether they are "correct" or not.
This belief you have in yourself, is an advantage and something most women consider a "positive".
The correctness of your beliefs can always be adjusted, as you learn more, the trait is still good.
Work on downplaying your uncomfortable social "fear", and try elevating your keyboard "self confidence" to validity in real life also.
Your obsession with all things economic, isn't all bad either, and a good Ukraine woman will go alongside you in the quest for financial balance.

I would look out for those hardwired traits; drop non intimate, negativity, laziness, and so on ... 

With your worries about economy, look for a woman with a skill, where she can start working her own business from home immediately.
Hairdresser (for women or maybe for pets; dogs) Cosmetic treatments, skin, nails,,, Home cleaning, for private or airbnb as an example.
Also sewing, catering, cake baking, and so on.
A rudimentary web page (with Google Adwords) / Facebook page, with competitive prices and contact info will usually give her a lot of work :-)
These are some examples I have seen personally, that FSU women have done when marrying men, unable to fully support their wife economically here in Norway.

Norwegian so-so men in their 40-50s that just married a beautiful young FSU woman found on a dating site, without ever reading a forum or analysing anything at all.
Like half ending in a divorce after a few years, some lasting with kids and all, now closing in on 15-20 years among those I'm familiar with.

I had relationships with A+ 9-10 women, that were considerable younger than me, throughout all of my adult life. Norwegian till 40s and FSU after that.   
When talking with women I were interested in, I always included them in a vision about what their future life could look like,
what a fantastic world is waiting for them outside their door, and how far they could go, if they wanted to and were willing to give it a try.
And they did, and succeeded in having, when considering their foundation, almost unbelievable careers in their lives.
Which I'm sure my present Ukraine wife will accomplish also when her time is due :-)

You could do the same Trench, but make the vision, a family with kids living in harmony together with their loving parents.
These kind of dreams will catch the imagination of almost all women, with a magnetic pull towards you, "the provider of their future" :-)

Forget about smaller cities like Lvov. Target Kiev with surrounding districts, and the cities within two hours: Zhytomir, Tsjernihiv, Bila Tsverka, Tsjerkassy ++.
This will ease logistics a lot, and use several dating sites to line up more meetings than you can handle, as there will be cancellations.
A rental car works wonders for a strategy like this. And if you are cheapskate like me, I slept in the car every night, to save on accommodation.

If you haven't read it already, you can read my story here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.0

Thanks, Northkape, I appreciate you seeing good personal qualities in me :) I guess I probably do have those qualities to me though I never really thought about it. You make some good points about the background and type of woman and how this might play out if we got together, so its something to consider indeed. I think giving the girl a vision of how her life could be is a good idea also. I've considered this a little in terms of 'how she could fit in' and 2tallbill made some good suggestions on this. I think putting her in the place of the 'driver' to this visions rather than me immediately 'elevating her to this vision is the thing to do so she shows commitment & effort to the cause.

I think the vision of a pleasant, harmonious and cheery family life with children is perhaps the best one though and of course relatively the cheapest ;D

I don't think even I would sleep in the back of a car doing this venture, that is too cheapskate even for me, lol.

At the moment I'm kind of half & half on supporting the wife, I could do it so long as she has normal spending habits - basic grocery shopping, basic clothes, modest entertainment costs, etc but any big demands from her would start to take their toll the bigger they are or longer they go on for. I would have issue if she is either sat at home all day and I'm at work or she's also at work all day. I know you have to trust each other and be into each other on this front and while some space from each other is often seen as healthy I think a life that can be shared as one whole rather than two halves is what I see as probably being the best situation.

On the cities, yes I have my slight reservations about Lviv/Lvov being smallish and not drumming up the response I would like. I think I will book myself into some cheap but decent accommodation there so if it does go south I can move on without too much cost. I quite fancy looking at Kharkiv as that is supposed to be good for woman also and a big city (second biggest in Ukraine to Kiev apparently). That said I think through this year until I find the one I will do as Nightwish suggests and do long weekend trips. On this I am thinking of doing a different area/city of Ukraine on each one so say Kharkiv on one, Kherson on another, then a Kiev revisit, Odessa, etc, etc and out to the surrounding cities, etc. That way I will get to compare what area/city might suit me best I'm thinking.

Already planning to use several dating sites to get the numbers ;) as know just one may not turn up a lot.

I will also read your story as find some can be very enlightening, many thanks for the help :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 30, 2018, 12:53:26 PM
On TC -- you probably have not bother read reading all his nonsense ,and you have missed a major point --he does  not want children .
That is a very important point --and very specific to your comments.

I want a woman without any existing children, but I want to have my own children with her, just to clarify.

So both of us single wanting children but not already with children.

If one did come up by chance who had children and there was obvious heavy attraction and she was just right for me then I would still go with her but looking for a woman with children already would not be my first choice.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 30, 2018, 01:01:52 PM
Trench,

I know I should just let you figure out your own “cover story”, but what the hell, right...??

OK, here’s what you do, get some random picture of a really beautiful woman, in the age range you’re interested in and put it on your i-phone (must be i-phone)

learn Russian

make a story in Russian, the girl is your friend/cousin/anything but your girlfriend, and has disappeared and you’re trying to find her, approach only women the age you are interested in

ask if they recognize the girl

this story lets you speak to any woman you want with a “prepared speech”

after they say, they don’t recognize her, you can ask them a few more questions
those who are interested will stay in talk
those who aren’t interested will move on

in a busy market place you could easily screen 100 women/day

OK, now...

That's actually a real good opener Krimster, :D thanks for that you're far better at this than me.

I have only learned a small spattering of Russian from self learn CD's, Internet, etc. I usually just state myself as not being able to speak any Russian since its probably so little/bad that its not worth stating. I want to find the time to learn more but time is spent on wealth creation which is the heart of what I need to be taken seriously by many women and get the job done. I will try and give your opener a try, many thanks :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 30, 2018, 01:14:37 PM
Quote
I have my slight reservations about Lviv/Lvov


L'viv is Ukrainian.  L'vov is Russian.  No local refers to L'viv as L'vov.


It's akin to referring to Gdansk as Danzig.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 30, 2018, 01:19:45 PM
there is I know a deeper story to you Trench
by any chance did you grow up without a father?
or was it your mother...

I grew up with both a mother and father who stayed together and never separated/divorced. Just my father worked my mother stayed at home as a housewife - cooking, cleaning, took us on outings as children, father too when he was on holiday/not at work.

My mother has always been the less socially able one, my father was always much better socially. I think unfortunately I inherited my mother's less social side. That said my father being more socially skilled did not have a lot of experience with different women so was not able to teach me much at all on that front. They married around the age of 21 but only had us three children around a decade later.

So growing up in the 80s & 90s I guess our family lacked a lot of money income, my father had pretty much everyday jobs that paid the going wage. He managed to by his/our family home and over time it rose in value quite a lot as is in a nice area. My mother still own our family home, I own my own home now, it is in a poorer but decent area, i.e non social housing area.

So that's about it, some recessions and time out of work and trouble getting decent paid work or even any job for me. I have a job now but I get more from my housing renovation projects I do outside of my part time work. Most employers here in the UK don't actually pay that much. So I guess a similar path to my father in terms of the financial side of things so far, lol, money and wealth growth tied up in capital rather than any high earning job, so that's where I'm at really. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 30, 2018, 05:31:18 PM
Trench is a misogynist and gets petulant when busted for advising others, when he hasn't got a clue.

He is stubborn in that he asks for advice and then tells one why you are 'wrong', but he is the perennially single guy.











Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 30, 2018, 05:49:52 PM
I have only learned a small spattering of Russian from self learn CD's, Internet, etc. I usually just state myself as not being able to speak any Russian since its probably so little/bad that its not worth stating. I want to find the time to learn more...

Why this emphasis on Russian if you're going to Ukraine?  Yes, I know that just about everyone there is bilingual in Ukrainian and Russian, but have you forgotten that Russia invaded Ukraine?  As Boethius, JayH and several others have pointed out, that has been a catalyst for the revivial of Ukrainian as many people's preferred language.  Even our esteemed member Stirlitz, a native Russian-only speaker from Odesa, now speaks Ukrainian as his first language.

If you're prepared to make the effort to learn at least SOME Ukrainian I would think that this would go down extremely well with the women you're trying to impress.  I'm guessing that everyone who has written or otherwise communicated with these women has used Russian because it's the generic default language for all of the western FSU (and many would not have even known that there was a separate language called Ukrainian).  If you learn some Ukrainian (or Belarussian, if applicable) that would have to be a point of difference in your favour.

I'll admit that I don't know any, but my time there was long before Putin decided to mess with Crimea and the Donbas, so people I met had absolutely no hesitation in speaking Russian.  In any case, though, the woman I spent the most time with in Kyiv was an interpreter who spoke fluent English.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 30, 2018, 06:33:42 PM
when my grandfather died, he left me a pound sterling
you’re probably thinking “big deal” a pound sterling, don’t spend it all in one place
but it actually is “special”
they are 4 large British “Crowns” minted in the year of my Grandfather’s birth, given to him by his father’s employer...
each coin is in perfect condition, and feels like it has about an ounce of sterling silver in it
I’m guessing the purchase power based on the silver content would today be about $50
but today a pound is $1.38

this decline in the value of the pound was caused by the collapse of industry after industry in Britain, from textiles, to steel, to coal mining and ship building, every single industrial era industry was going bankrupt and shutting down due to cheaper foreign competition.

this led to a collapse in value of the British worker and a decline in relative living standard for Britain and to a hard life for guys like Trench

unfortunately, this is America’s future as well...
one day it will be “Western Women Discussion” and mid-level corporate managers in Shezhen, China will be chasing after blond bimbos who live in trailer parks in Idaho...
what at an exciting time that will be!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 30, 2018, 09:28:08 PM
when my grandfather died, he left me a pound sterling
you’re probably thinking “big deal” a pound sterling, don’t spend it all in one place
but it actually is “special”
they are 4 large British “Crowns” minted in the year of my Grandfather’s birth, given to him by his father’s employer...
each coin is in perfect condition, and feels like it has about an ounce of sterling silver in it
I’m guessing the purchase power based on the silver content would today be about $50
but today a pound is $1.38

this decline in the value of the pound was caused by the collapse of industry after industry in Britain, from textiles, to steel, to coal mining and ship building, every single industrial era industry was going bankrupt and shutting down due to cheaper foreign competition.

this led to a collapse in value of the British worker and a decline in relative living standard for Britain and to a hard life for guys like Trench

unfortunately, this is America’s future as well...
one day it will be “Western Women Discussion” and mid-level corporate managers in Shezhen, China will be chasing after blond bimbos who live in trailer parks in Idaho...
what at an exciting time that will be!!!

IWhat a colourful description of the decline in the GBP...

You forgot to mention the crap industrial relations and strikes that aided the destruction of UK PLC as a manufacture from the end of the war to the Thatcher years

Most of this time we were not in the EU/ EEC, but 'we' want to leave the biggest free trade block (and destroy  London as a financial hub)  to make  'us' great again......?

Real 'smart'
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 01, 2018, 08:44:46 AM
IWhat a colourful description of the decline in the GBP...

You forgot to mention the crap industrial relations and strikes that aided the destruction of UK PLC as a manufacture from the end of the war to the Thatcher years

Most of this time we were not in the EU/ EEC, but 'we' want to leave the biggest free trade block (and destroy  London as a financial hub)  to make  'us' great again......?

Real 'smart'

The EU restricts our ability to make free trade agreements with the rest of the world and hence hinders our economy. The free trade agreements it makes we have little control over so it could make free trade agreement with countries that could damage our economy with cheap imports.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2018, 08:49:14 AM
when I was little, I used to spend part of the early summer in Rochdale
used to go play with older kids in an abandoned 19th century textile mill
I used to catch frogs in the “raceway” where the giant waterwheel used to be...

surprised to learn that up until 1830 or so, entire British textile industry was in this area, and even back then it employed over 200,000 people, including my ancestors...

what a miserable life this was!
the whole family husband, wife, little children, had to work in the mill from sun-up until sun-down basically for bread, prisoners of war are sometimes treated better than an early 19th century British mill worker!

the reason all this was in Rochdale, was because of the canals!!!!
did you know that early 19th century British textile industry was entirely powered by giant water wheels fed by the canals in Rochdale!!!

think of that, entirely hydro-powered textile industry that employed over 200,000 people and Britain had that in 1830!!!

you know what killed it?  it wasn’t the Americans or Chinese, definitely NOT the Chinese, British machine made textiles were of such high quality and cheap price that they devastated the Chinese textile market which were based on hand-powered weaving and put many of thousands of traditional Chinese weavers out of business...
No, what killed it was steam!
As the textile industry grew in Rochdale, the most desirable spots for access to the canals were quickly purchased for Mill development, prices quickly rose for land parcels with canal access
As the industry reached it’s peak, not only was all the available land already taken, but so was the labor, and mill owners began to break their agreements with one another NOT to raise wages, and now were being forced to compete for workers by raising wages.
Now, along comes steam power!
You can use steam and go anywhere in England that has a lot of cheap labor, and that’s just what happened!!!  these new steam powered mills also used newer more modern mechanical looms that could work faster than previous models.  one worker on the new machines could do the work of 4 workers on the old!!

and thus began the rule, that “The Cheaper Price Wins”, as the new steam powered low labor cost mills drove the older ones out of business...

but, they are absolutely great places for catching frogs!!

BTW, can you imagine carrying say 5 pounds sterling this way a “fiver”, it would be over a pound of silver in your pocket, no wonder people had coin purses back then!
but gold sovereigns and half-sovereigns are too small...
glad we have notes instead
I liked Scottish currency...

 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 01, 2018, 10:52:30 PM
Rochdale while perhaps depressing for the reasons Krimster notes is also the birthplace of the Rochdale Principles. This is the foundation of the Co-Op movement. While perhaps different in form from the initial concept the principles remain the same. A share of the profits divided between the producers.

An example in The United States of an active and vibrant cooperative would the Cabot Group with dairy products.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 03, 2018, 02:39:47 PM
Just a thought I've had and wondered what others thought on here. I was thinking of putting that I am after a frugal woman on my profile for FSU dating sites. I think even if I was loaded I wouldn't feel great if the lady was asking for loads of stuff or more expensive items. Do you guys think this would go down alright with the right type of woman?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on May 03, 2018, 03:06:43 PM
Trench, I think it's a bad idea as raising children and being frugal, to a certain extent doesn't go hand in hand.  Just find a woman that's only a few years younger than you (some still want children in there late 30's), has a good education, middle class or upper middle-class job and wage,  owns her own apartment, has a good relationship with her parents and you might have more  success. I chatted with several that had the same quality of life that I did and seemed to be not materialistic and genuine. I don't know if it was coincidence, but I stayed away from woman wearing sexy revealing clothing. They were wearing neat causal or business attire and very modest.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on May 03, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
I don't know if it was coincidence, but I stayed away from woman wearing sexy revealing clothing. They were wearing neat causal or business attire and very modest.

Once a gal told me that her sister (who was near her age) told her not to wear something overly sexy on our first date, where we had planned to visit an art museum.

Sister said:  "Let him enjoy the art and not be thinking about sex with you."
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 03, 2018, 04:01:47 PM
Just a thought I've had and wondered what others thought on here. I was thinking of putting that I am after a frugal woman on my profile for FSU dating sites. I think even if I was loaded I wouldn't feel great if the lady was asking for loads of stuff or more expensive items. Do you guys think this would go down alright with the right type of woman?

No.

Again, this is putting the  cart before horse.

Meet women, learn who they are ,while they learn about you.

You wouldnt talk about your thoughts on any number of certain  subjects with someone you just met.

You stay on the lighter side ,
and if there is any cause to spend more time together you get into other subjects as they will come up naturally,or if important you broach them at a time when things are beginning to develop.

You dont do this with a woman you were just saying *hello* to at a friends backyard BBQ.

It will come off odd,  and drive the very women you wish to meet away.


I understand your wish to sort out things before wasting any time, money, or effort.

Stating certain things in your profile that are deal breakers for you is fine.
However, youd still be better off leaving things to just normal information or regular conversation starters .


My wife is quite frugal,  I have to really try to get her to buy stuff.even then she'll end up returning most of it to my dismay.

However,having some blank statement,like that,would have been viewed as odd.
I might have over come it, because I can be pretty convincing and downright charming if need be lol
But there is simply no reason to start a conversation with a stranger on a  negative vibe,and that's what youd be doing.

:)
Example:
I'm no gentleman, so do not prefer blondes.
However I'd never put my preference for brunettes in my profile.

 :ROFL:


Nor would I talk politics,religion, frugalness or lack thereof,  in a profile ,or kn an initial  conversation.

TC , put your best foot forward.!
You only get one chance at a first impression.
Do your best in your profile to  be yourself,but the best most witty,interesting bits of what makes you tic.

I'd suggest staying away from the things you want or dont want.

Try to be someone they want to find out about.

I wrote all kind of silly nonsense,  frankly because while  I knew it might offend some,that doesnt bother me, but it might  make others laugh.and I could pull it off.
There were no serious parts to my profile, if they wanted to know that,they could take the time to write and learn.
I also never contacted anyone first,I replied to those that contacted me .Very easy way to sort who is interested.
(Yes you'll still need to understand why they are interested,good or bad lol)

Anyway, in general it can be a grey dull boring life.
Russian men are actually great conversationalists in general and can chat up a dev in seconds.They do so most of the time by joking around. It's often a dry sense of humor,interesting. ,and with clever twists of word meanings.

So fsu women are not going to respond as well to blank odd statements of fact .
Or a list of *what I TC, want or dont want*








Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 03, 2018, 04:10:05 PM
Once a gal told me that her sister (who was near her age) told her not to wear something overly sexy on our first date, where we had planned to visit an art museum.

Sister said:  "Let him enjoy the art and not be thinking about sex with you."

So--  I am guessing you will recall every "piece" of art you saw that day !! :shock: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 03, 2018, 04:10:49 PM
Or just try basic empathy.
 If a woman puts somet blank statement  in her profile that strikes you as odd to put there..
How do you view it?

Women , even though they may seem alien to you, view things the same way ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 03, 2018, 05:38:06 PM
No.

Again, this is putting the  cart before horse.

Meet women, learn who they are ,while they learn about you.

You wouldnt talk about your thoughts on any number of certain  subjects with someone you just met.

You stay on the lighter side ,
and if there is any cause to spend more time together you get into other subjects as they will come up naturally,or if important you broach them at a time when things are beginning to develop.

You dont do this with a woman you were just saying *hello* to at a friends backyard BBQ.

It will come off odd,  and drive the very women you wish to meet away.


I understand your wish to sort out things before wasting any time, money, or effort.

Stating certain things in your profile that are deal breakers for you is fine.
However, youd still be better off leaving things to just normal information or regular conversation starters .


My wife is quite frugal,  I have to really try to get her to buy stuff.even then she'll end up returning most of it to my dismay.

However,having some blank statement,like that,would have been viewed as odd.
I might have over come it, because I can be pretty convincing and downright charming if need be lol
But there is simply no reason to start a conversation with a stranger on a  negative vibe,and that's what youd be doing.

:)
Example:
I'm no gentleman, so do not prefer blondes.
However I'd never put my preference for brunettes in my profile.

 :ROFL:


Nor would I talk politics,religion, frugalness or lack thereof,  in a profile ,or kn an initial  conversation.

TC , put your best foot forward.!
You only get one chance at a first impression.
Do your best in your profile to  be yourself,but the best most witty,interesting bits of what makes you tic.

I'd suggest staying away from the things you want or dont want.

Try to be someone they want to find out about.

I wrote all kind of silly nonsense,  frankly because while  I knew it might offend some,that doesnt bother me, but it might  make others laugh.and I could pull it off.
There were no serious parts to my profile, if they wanted to know that,they could take the time to write and learn.
I also never contacted anyone first,I replied to those that contacted me .Very easy way to sort who is interested.
(Yes you'll still need to understand why they are interested,good or bad lol)

Anyway, in general it can be a grey dull boring life.
Russian men are actually great conversationalists in general and can chat up a dev in seconds.They do so most of the time by joking around. It's often a dry sense of humor,interesting. ,and with clever twists of word meanings.

So fsu women are not going to respond as well to blank odd statements of fact .
Or a list of *what I TC, want or dont want*

Thanks Jumper, your absolutely right, I was pretty off track. I think getting the girls up then weighing them up as I go is the way to go. Ill try to put what you say here into practice ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: treadmilldude on May 04, 2018, 02:01:01 AM
Somewhere in life you lost your way Trenchcoat. You lost the "Goodness", the "Decency", the "Love" that is naturally inherent in everyone's moral compass.

There is something that is just evil about you. You are not mentally right. You are not fit to ever be a Husband or Father.

I hope and pray that no Woman in the UK ever marries you. I hope and pray that no Woman in the FSU ever marries you.

With every bone in my body I hope you stay single the rest of your life and never Father a Child.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 04, 2018, 06:32:48 AM
"Somewhere in life you lost your way Trenchcoat. You lost the "Goodness", the "Decency", the "Love" that is naturally inherent in everyone's moral compass."


poor little black sheep who has lost his way, has he? ....
Trench isn't fundamentally different from the rest us sad sacks...
it may make you all feel better about yourselves, to think you're better than him... but you aren't really...
none of us are...
Trench is just more honest...
he was dealt a bad hand in life and doesn't have a lot of good cards in the deck he's playing
nor does he have a lot of experience at the game
but he's still out there playing!!!
so give him some respect for that...





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 04, 2018, 08:42:37 AM
"Somewhere in life you lost your way Trenchcoat. You lost the "Goodness", the "Decency", the "Love" that is naturally inherent in everyone's moral compass."


poor little black sheep who has lost his way, has he? ....
Trench isn't fundamentally different from the rest us sad sacks...
it may make you all feel better about yourselves, to think you're better than him... but you aren't really...
none of us are...
Trench is just more honest...
he was dealt a bad hand in life and doesn't have a lot of good cards in the deck he's playing
nor does he have a lot of experience at the game
but he's still out there playing!!!
so give him some respect for that...

Cheers Krimster :) Much appreciate the support.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 04, 2018, 08:58:16 AM
oh no, Trench, sorry, they're right about you...
I'm just calling them hypocrites for thinking that they're any better than you

until someone has walked in your shoes
they can't criticize you for how you walk

so my advice to you for Ukraine:

hospitals
"crazy house"
prisons
homeless

haha, just kidding!!!!!



about the "homeless"
you don't wanto mess with homeless women in Ukraine, trust me!!!


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 04, 2018, 08:58:56 AM
Somewhere in life you lost your way Trenchcoat. You lost the "Goodness", the "Decency", the "Love" that is naturally inherent in everyone's moral compass.

There is something that is just evil about you. You are not mentally right. You are not fit to ever be a Husband or Father.

I hope and pray that no Woman in the UK ever marries you. I hope and pray that no Woman in the FSU ever marries you.

With every bone in my body I hope you stay single the rest of your life and never Father a Child.

TMD I think your lack of progress in your own search is affecting you a bit here, if your own search was going well you wouldn't be the least bit concerned with me. I found the guys & girls on this forum have helped me out loads in understanding the more complex areas of FSU dating. Let us help you, be open and tell us your story and the problems you are facing.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 04, 2018, 03:54:28 PM
"Somewhere in life you lost your way Trenchcoat. You lost the "Goodness", the "Decency", the "Love" that is naturally inherent in everyone's moral compass."


poor little black sheep who has lost his way, has he? ....
Trench isn't fundamentally different from the rest us sad sacks...
it may make you all feel better about yourselves, to think you're better than him... but you aren't really...
none of us are...
Trench is just more honest...
he was dealt a bad hand in life and doesn't have a lot of good cards in the deck he's playing
nor does he have a lot of experience at the game
but he's still out there playing!!!
so give him some respect for that...

Eh, as for myself I have no delusions thinking I am better than TC.
  I'd like to see him succeed,  so offer him advice is all.
And absolutely give him credit for getting himself out there, likely far out of his comfort zone.

I hope in this endeavor he can do some soul searching as well though , find empathy and a deeper understanding of what his future partner might feel also.
Its things everyone  can work on,I'm certainly not immune to needing self improvement.
If you are stagnant and arnt maturing and gaining insight as you grow older it would be pretty sad.

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 04, 2018, 08:00:44 PM
lives of quiet desperation and all that...
I think Ukraine is wrong for him however
and he should stay closer to home
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 04, 2018, 08:11:49 PM
TMD I think your lack of progress in your own search is affecting you a bit here, if your own search was going well you wouldn't be the least bit concerned with me. I found the guys & girls on this forum have helped me out loads in understanding the more complex areas of FSU dating. Let us help you, be open and tell us your story and the problems you are facing.

TMD's comments   are an awful long way closer to the truth than your once again stupid response. My circumstances are fine ( as are many others who agree with my general assessment of you) -- but-- of note is that here again you attack the guy  who slaps you between the eyes with some home truths.
Once again -- you know absolutely zero of his circumstances yet again you deign to attempt an insult based on that.You are a petty little peanut.
As for you helping anyone -- only by showing how not to do it. :wallbash: :cluebat:

While I am bothering -- you worship of the sex tourist Roosh and his disciple DK illustrates what an idiot you truly are.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2018, 03:40:13 AM

If you haven't read it already, you can read my story here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.0

That's a pretty amazing story Northkape :) Only read the first three pages so far but it's most engrossing. I was shocked to see the age gap between you and Lena, 45 ish to 22. Guess it was handy that you weren't significantly greying so it didn't look too amiss. She's very pretty also so you going 13 years in a relationship like that and having two sons is real good going.

I can see the advantage of going that young in that there's probably less chance of getting problem women. I still would probably go for women 28 & above for me (aged 40) as I think the age gap would work heavily against me unless the girl was obviously infatuated with me. Idk, I think while the idea of a young girl appeals at times I think it might feel a bit strange to me at times. The last girl I was with who was 25, now 26 was a bit on the borderline I felt at times. She we'll see how it goes on the trip I've git coming up in June.

That pic of her hometown was also pretty shocking, lol. All that pollution & dust! Worse that even I had imagined for the industrial backwaters out there.

I can see the sense of you having lived on with the different women for short durations. Makes sense to me you doing that as I guess you only learn how you get on together long term that way instead if loads of short meet ups.

Many thanks for sharing Northkape.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2018, 05:21:08 AM
Once again -- you know absolutely zero of his circumstances yet again you deign to attempt an insult based on that.You are a petty little peanut.
As for you helping anyone -- only by showing how not to do it. :wallbash: :cluebat:

While I am bothering -- you worship of the sex tourist Roosh and his disciple DK illustrates what an idiot you truly are.

TMD seems to have no problem criticising me yet is not man enough to tell anyone his story, if he even has one to tell. I have let it be known what mine is despite knowing I would come under fire from the usual suspects. Is he scared of doing the same?

My comment in any case was to suggest he might benefit from help on here. Not necessarily from me but all forum members.

I'm not saying I agree with what Roosh is after or how he goes about it, but he has been there for a substantial time and made observations some of which I doubt are that far of the mark.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2018, 07:22:04 AM
That's a pretty amazing story Northkape :) Only read the first three pages so far but it's most engrossing. I was shocked to see the age gap between you and Lena, 45 ish to 22. Guess it was handy that you weren't significantly greying so it didn't look too amiss. She's very pretty also so you going 23 years in a relationship like that and having two sons is real good going.

You do realize Lena left him, right?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2018, 10:01:59 AM
You do realize Lena left him, right?

Well yeah, but his going 13 years (not 23 apologies for the mobile phone typo earlier) is pretty outstanding with that age gap, her being pretty and coming from an industrial backwater.

If it were me commenting back then I wouldn't give him or probably any guy the likliehood of lasting that distance and having two sons.

I would have said he would be taken to the cleaners shortly after marriage and her domicile in the country they lived in, Norway I assume. I would have placed my bets on her cashing in and moving on in the shortest applicable time mainly due to age gap and points mentioned above. I think Northkape sounds like he has a great personality but even with that I would have thought it a grasp a relationship lasting that long.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 05, 2018, 11:54:56 AM
Trench

your problems start when you post without thinking - AT ALL

You 'analyse' a failed relationship in terms of how much the FSU partner gets ..

Really, don't marry - pay for prostitutes - at least you'll know they are being honest with you ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2018, 01:07:51 PM
So you’ll be happy if you “save” some FSUW from the “sh#thole” city she lives in, if she leaves you after some time?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2018, 02:05:59 PM
"Really, don't marry - pay for prostitutes - at least you'll know they are being honest with you ..."

would not at all surprise me if you could make the following "arrangement"

pay for Odessa escort - 1st time full price
2nd time half price straight to girl
propose that you do for her a fiancee visa - she comes lives with you until she gets a visa then s'long...
she's your "girlfriend" for a year for room and board and visa support...

I think you could negotiate that in certain parts of Ukraine




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2018, 04:01:17 PM
So you’ll be happy if you “save” some FSUW from the “sh#thole” city she lives in, if she leaves you after some time?

I think it depends upon the person and the relationship. Some relationships turn stale over time, and it may be a godsend to move on. Others may become deeply unhappy ag a relationship break up however far down the track it is.

Some guys are happy if they achieved their aim of a couple of children out of it, do long ad the children don't suffer due to the relationship break down. Sometimes in life things can be better with a shake up occasionally to keep life interesting. I think gone are the days where a divorce is seen as a life & death moment in a couple's life.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2018, 04:07:33 PM
Trench

your problems start when you post without thinking - AT ALL

You 'analyse' a failed relationship in terms of how much the FSU partner gets ..

Really, don't marry - pay for prostitutes - at least you'll know they are being honest with you ...

Mobers I noticed you've  been away for a while, you haven't by any chance been finding out what a real banya experience is have you? ;D A sort of 'So that's what you meant when you said you wanted a Sauna!' to the other half. Filling in that vital part of FSU culture where old Trenchy got the jump on you for once, O forum expert :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2018, 04:17:43 PM
Screwing a woman in a banya  is hardly a “real FSU experience”.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2018, 05:34:02 PM
I think it depends upon the person and the relationship. Some relationships turn stale over time, and it may be a godsend to move on. Others may become deeply unhappy ag a relationship break up however far down the track it is.

Some guys are happy if they achieved their aim of a couple of children out of it, do long ad the children don't suffer due to the relationship break down. Sometimes in life things can be better with a shake up occasionally to keep life interesting. I think gone are the days where a divorce is seen as a life & death moment in a couple's life.

Children always suffer when they are faced with a broken home, no matter what all the divorced men on this forun profess to the contrary.  There is a ton of research on this. The only exception is extremely high conflict families.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 05, 2018, 08:20:47 PM
“Screwing a woman in a banya  is hardly a “real FSU experience”.

Bo, this is a subject that seems to elicit some bitterness from you...
where there is smoke, you sometimes encounter fire
is there a reason?

otherwise treating someone’s sexuality as though it is indecent, inhibits my own enjoyment and freedom of expression, because I’m thinkin’ well if she thinks he’s weird, wait till she finds out about MY predilections (they’re good I promise you!!)...

Bo, for all we know you might be a Dominatrix who wears a black mask and holds a whip
or you may be a person who completely lacks any imagination in this regard

you never reveal that about yourself
oh my, a Canadian woman inhibited about the topic of sex, never seen that before...

or prove me wrong...

was there sex in the Soviet Union???

write from the heart
first hand, please...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2018, 09:32:07 PM
There is no bitterness.

Banya experiences were never about sex. Plus, every hotel banya is monitored, and I’m not into public displays of sex. I don’t watch porn, and I have no interest in participating in public pornography.

I also don’t think there is much of a comparison between a LTR built on mutual respect and love, and two animals humping while each pursues (their) own interests. Call me old fashioned.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 05, 2018, 10:12:26 PM
 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 05, 2018, 10:21:50 PM
Mobers I noticed you've  been away for a while

It's called a holiday, Trench ...  There are FAR more interesting things to do that read  your drivel

you haven't by any chance been finding out what a real banya experience is have you?

As previously mentioned - a 'sauna' in a basement of a FSU hotel is no real banya....   no need to keep proving your 'expertise' on such experiences  ... 

It is noted you ignored my serious advice to you
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2018, 12:20:27 AM
gee BO,

have you ever experienced “visual ecstasy” in the opposite sex?
a human so beautiful they were like a god
that you should bow down to?


consider the definition of a “nubile young woman” in Ukraine
18-25+ or so...
flawless, perfect Olympian body
every...single...detail...perfect...
a visual treat par excellence
like a wild pony...
with the smell of hay

and if the beautiful pony
is so delightful to look at
then touching it...
riding it...


eros is a bitter potion to some
intoxicating to others
and then there’s me...
passed out in the shrubbery...

a strange source of knowledge
second hand knowledge is not the best source BO
your husband was your first and only true love..
I have loved many times
all were different
all were wonderful

when I was much younger
I once loved a woman more than 15 years my senior
she used to like to stare at me when I came out of the shower
and she was always quick with the towel to dry me off
so I felt at first her eyes upon me, devouring me
and then her long slender hands...
she taught me how to build tension
and then give a release
she called me "her treasure"
like Lord of the Rings"





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 06, 2018, 12:35:48 AM
Not particularly important to women. At your age, you should know that.  ;). That’s very fortunate for most of the men posting here.  :devil:

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2018, 12:52:33 AM
"Not particularly important to women. At your age, you should know that.  ;)

my answer is both "YES" and "NO"

I have a clearer picture of you now, yes...
forgive the gentle "probing"

you're just not interested in sex, and find the whole subject 'annoying'


so, what stimulates BO?
what makes her "all sweaty"?
hmm...???






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2018, 12:53:32 AM
i mean philosophy...poetry?????
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 06, 2018, 01:00:44 AM
I’m not interested in discussing my sex life, no.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 01:05:13 AM
It is noted you ignored my serious advice to you

It's not needed Mobe. I'm capable of making a go of this without such as you describe. I have a trip coming up next month so may come good there, who knows :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 01:08:38 AM
Banya experiences were never about sex. Plus, every hotel banya is monitored, and I’m not into public displays of sex. I don’t watch porn, and I have no interest in participating in public pornography.

You mean they may have had cctv up inside the sauna itself :o I didn't notice any unless it was done real covert style. I thought a private banya meant just that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 01:14:36 AM
So you’ll be happy if you “save” some FSUW from the “sh#thole” city she lives in, if she leaves you after some time?

Just been looking up, it seems like Norway is a country that supports the institution of marriage  :D - similar to Ukraine all property owned before marriage can't be claimed by other half in divorce no matter what. Seems Northkape's only mistake was paying for her to get a degree & career level job. If not they would probably still be together if he so wanted.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 06, 2018, 02:10:02 AM
Just been looking up, it seems like Norway is a country that supports the institution of marriage  :D - similar to Ukraine all property owned before marriage can't be claimed by other half in divorce no matter what. Seems Northkape's only mistake was paying for her to get a degree & career level job. If not they would probably still be together if he so wanted.


His post above again illustrates that he thinks he can own a woman  -- and that he can "buy" her on the cheap ! That is the entire basis of his thinking -- as I said a long time ago-- a social misfit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 03:13:15 AM

His post above again illustrates that he thinks he can own a woman  -- and that he can "buy" her on the cheap ! That is the entiere basis of his thinking -- as I said a long time ago-- a social misfit.

To my mind Jay if a woman pronounces her undying love to a guy & commitment then she shouldn't mind if she can't gain monetarily from a marriage. If a girl pronounces her undying love but hides the sole intention of uscrupulously using ghe man they only have themselves to blame.

Comes back to the question of why the woman is looking abroad. For some it may well be solely because they can't find the love they want at home. Many we know do want a better life into the bargain, nothing wrong with that, a bit of give and take, reasonable enough. However, how many girls once they have that better life then don't want to stop there, how many gain the attitude, 'that was before, things are different now'. They might have not originally intended to go for more but now that things are different and they see that they can. Never mind that they would have never been elevated out of the industrial dumpsk if it were not for you. I'm just saying that the girl got a fair and equitable deal in the first place given her circumstances so if that was what was originally accepted that is how it should remain.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 06, 2018, 03:15:56 AM
To my mind Jay if a woman pronounces her undying love to a guy & commitment then she shouldn't mind if she can't gain monetarily from a marriage. If a girl pronounces her undying love but hides the sole intention of uscrupulously using ghe man they only have themselves to blame.                 
And what about you?  Are you planning on telling women that you want a wife who will wear short skirts so you are in a continual state of arousal, that you want her to be tied to the kitchen and bed, to service your needs as you deem fit, that you don't want her to further her education - nope, only menial labour for her, as it fits with what you desire.  Shouldn't you tell a woman that on the first date, so that she isn't wasting time with you?
Quote

Comes back to the question of why the woman is looking abroad. For some it may well be solely because they can't find the love they want at home. Many we know do want a better life into the bargain, nothing wrong with that, a bit of give and take, reasonable enough. However, how many girls once they have that better life then don't want to stop there, how many gain the attitude, 'that was before, things are different now'. They might have not originally intended to go for more but now that things are different and they see that they can. Never mind that they would have never been elevated out of the industrial dumpsk if it were not for you. I'm just saying that the girl got a fair and equitable deal in the first place given her circumstances so if that was what was originally accepted that is how it should remain.
krimster told you - she is looking abroad because she can have a better life.  If she is going to live with a guy who can't support her, or who is so cheap he won't help her fulfill her dreams (such as an education and interesting job), then she can marry a UM.  You are no trade up from them, and I would bet physically, they are largely more appealing than you.

You are aware, I assume, that people in Ukraine can move as they desire?  They can move to areas of the country that have more jobs and are more attractive, just like anyone in the West can.  You are not saving a woman.  That is a huge problem in your posts, and it is why the only women you will attract will be grifters - because of your attitude.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 06, 2018, 03:27:42 AM

 They might have not originally intended to go for more but now that things are different and they see that they can. Never mind that they would have never been elevated out of the industrial dumpsk if it were not for you. I'm just saying that the girl got a fair and equitable deal in the first place given her circumstances so if that was what was originally accepted that is how it should remain.


Your just proving ( once more ) you don't have the first clue...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 06, 2018, 03:28:56 AM
It's not needed Mobe. I'm capable of making a go of this without such as you describe. I have a trip coming up next month so may come good there, who knows :)

No..you're not ... You are incapable of empathy
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 06, 2018, 03:48:30 AM
Seems Northkape's only mistake was paying for her to get a degree & career level job. If not they would probably still be together if he so wanted.

FFS, yet another clueless comment

My Russian wife spoke poor English when she came here - didn't have to do the UK lang test or life in Britain stuff and studied, studiously

*I* pushed her to do a degree and she eventually excelled ...she didn't leave me when she felt she could do better

She runs a service orientated biz and turns away clients as she does enough to survive..if she was seeking a better replacement - she's had 6 years to upgrade....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 04:39:59 AM
FFS, yet another clueless comment

My Russian wife spoke poor English when she came here - didn't have to do the UK lang test or life in Britain stuff and studied, studiously

*I* pushed her to do a degree and she eventually excelled ...she didn't leave me when she felt she could do better

She runs a service orientated biz and turns away clients as she does enough to survive..if she was seeking a better replacement - she's had 6 years to upgrade....

You mean the one you are in divorce proceedings with, hmmn...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 06, 2018, 04:50:31 AM
You mean the one you are in divorce proceedings with, hmmn...

Yes, ( although our status is different ) and your 'point' ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 04:59:13 AM
You are aware, I assume, that people in Ukraine can move as they desire?  They can move to areas of the country that have more jobs and are more attractive, just like anyone in the West can.  You are not saving a woman.  That is a huge problem in your posts, and it is why the only women you will attract will be grifters - because of your attitude.

If they could move they would, they are either in Industrial dumpsk because they don't have the money to move or industrial dumpsk provides the jobs the can't get in more pleasanter areas. Why was the last girl I was with so anxious to come to Britain. The economy was not great where she was and it's a shitehole, she said as much, but she did at least have a job there and family. She was fed up with her life as course, already had a degree, possibly an MA I think, but all age could get was shop work. So not a lot but enough to keep her there I think. Would she get any better in any other city in Ukraine? Probably not, only perhaps Kiev, maybe Kharkiv if she is lucky.

Could she get a better job in the UK? Well she would earn more money (equvilent of) in retail at the very least. Longer term she would probably do better though even if not in a top job. She didn't want to work though. Since then I have realised that I need to get myself into a more flexible position to take account of all responses I may get from a woman from, 'I don't want to move to the UK' to 'I don't want to work'. A girl not working is not necessarily as much of a problem as it sounded a first. I'm ready to accomodation a girl where I can but she must realise that there are things I would want from a marriage such as children. So are you saying a woman would be a non starter if I did not state a desire to fulfil her dreams?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 05:02:02 AM
Yes, ( although our status is different ) and your 'point' ?

You need me to spell it out???

Well Ok, here goes. You gave her all she wanted now she is divorcing you. It may have not been straight away but it's where you're at. So eventually no good comes of elevating a woman too far with uni degrees, etc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 06, 2018, 05:10:57 AM
Yes, ( although our status is different ) and your 'point' ?

Moby--it is clear that  TC is superior to you --he has never been married a few times and gone through divorce proceedings, never been in a relationship --full stop ( let alone with an fsuw) Oh wait -I forgot his fantasy 2 days and banya experience ( factually-- in his dreams and something he read)  . Add in that he is actually as poor as a church mouse and and lives in a boring green shithole  and has his banger on HP ,his inherited semi , cannot afford a long weekend away etc etc has a petty closed perverted mind , chances are Pitbull diagnosis is pretty close  to my social misfit assessment  --really Moby --I can see why you should feel inferior !!  ( oh I forgot your poor Nth Ire accent and background !!_ 8)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on May 06, 2018, 05:15:28 AM
So eventually no good comes of elevating a woman too far with uni degrees, etc.
Absolutely pathetic. Go gay Trench, it's your best hope for finding love.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 06, 2018, 05:32:50 AM
You need me to spell it out???

Well Ok, here goes. You gave her all she wanted now she is divorcing you. It may have not been straight away but it's where you're at. So eventually no good comes of elevating a woman too far with uni degrees, etc.

The third daft post in the last few hours...   

As previously mentioned - this 'gold digger' wanted nothing from me in the way of assets / pensions...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 05:44:43 AM
The third daft post in the last few hours...   

As previously mentioned - this 'gold digger' wanted nothing from me in the way of assets / pensions...

I never said she was a gold digger. She may not want any if your assets etc if she is dojng alright herself. She has her business & uni degree which is what she wanted, point is you outlived your usefulness upon her aquiring these. She might well be more decent than most women innit going after your assets. All I'm saying is playing to what she wanted in the end probably contributed to you relationship ending early. That is of course if you were bothered about how long it lasted.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2018, 06:51:14 AM
"oh I forgot your poor Nth Ire accent and background !!_"

that's what it is!

he's Irish, and not on the spectrum!
it's hard to tell the difference between the two...

I assume Trench is Irish Catholic and not C of E
msmob, I take it you're "orange" and Trech is "green"
do we have a little orange v green going on
oy me boyos, the "troubles" be over...





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 06, 2018, 08:39:55 AM
If they could move they would, they are either in Industrial dumpsk because they don't have the money to move or industrial dumpsk provides the jobs the can't get in more pleasanter areas. Why was the last girl I was with so anxious to come to Britain. The economy was not great where she was and it's a shitehole, she said as much, but she did at least have a job there and family. She was fed up with her life as course, already had a degree, possibly an MA I think, but all age could get was shop work. So not a lot but enough to keep her there I think. Would she get any better in any other city in Ukraine? Probably not, only perhaps Kiev, maybe Kharkiv if she is lucky.

That’s a huge leap to make.

Your last girl was not anxious to come to the UK. That was the way to get rid of you.

Quote
Could she get a better job in the UK? Well she would earn more money (equvilent of) in retail at the very least. Longer term she would probably do better though even if not in a top job. She didn't want to work though. Since then I have realised that I need to get myself into a more flexible position to take account of all responses I may get from a woman from, 'I don't want to move to the UK' to 'I don't want to work'. A girl not working is not necessarily as much of a problem as it sounded a first. I'm ready to accomodation a girl where I can but she must realise that there are things I would want from a marriage such as children. So are you saying a woman would be a non starter if I did not state a desire to fulfil her dreams?

You don’t understand FSUW. Also, based on your posts you will not find anyone sincere.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 08:43:13 AM
"oh I forgot your poor Nth Ire accent and background !!_"

that's what it is!

he's Irish, and not on the spectrum!
it's hard to tell the difference between the two...

I assume Trench is Irish Catholic and not C of E
msmob, I take it you're "orange" and Trech is "green"
do we have a little orange v green going on
oy me boyos, the "troubles" be over...

Lol, nope afraid I'm not Irish Krimster, I'm English born & bred. I can see why you might think me & Mobers are on opposite sides of the conflict as it were. It's pretty similar to the way the two sides used to be in constant disagreement on everything. They still kind of are but have been given an assembly in which to have a go at each other.

I was christened at birth so theoretically protestant but in practice I'm not at all religious, neither is any of my family. It was more of a convention to have Christenings when I was younger as part of the birth celebration process, even for families that were not really at all religious. Now thankfully it's been dropped by most apart from those that are actually religious.

I have ancestors that were Irish Catholic, from southern Ireland we're talking great, great grandmother here - think that's right, possibly another great might be needed in there, but no more recent relatives. Perhaps that's it me & Mobers are descended from different segments of the Irish ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 08:55:57 AM
That’s a huge leap to make.

Your last girl was not anxious to come to the UK. That was the way to get rid of you.

You don’t understand FSUW. Also, based on your posts you will not find anyone sincere.

She definately wanted to come to the UK, she said that upfront in Kiev, before the issue really turned into a problem. I didn't know just how much she wanted to though. She also looked unhappy when I mentioned living in Cyprus when we were in Cyprus. While I think she could have used this as a reason for an exit out of the relationship the number if messages I got from he'd pressing for a visa and the above and other indicators already mentioned I think not. She didn't need to drag it on so long if she wanted to use it as an out. I don't know exactly where she lives or works (though got a good idea not that she knows) so theoretically she could have ended it fairly quick even blocked me and moved on.

The first girl from Mariupol that I met did give an excuse to end it - her father was finishing work due to his age so she needed to work more. I know this was rubbish I set up a phoney profile and contacted her and she was still very much up for it, but there was no affection there anyway we just got on well together.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 06, 2018, 08:58:49 AM
No, she didn’t. You still don’t understand what happened. That was an excuse to dump you. She never had any intention of being with you long term.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 06, 2018, 09:27:14 AM
TC, there is a percent of the male or  female population that are users of any nationality.
Age gap has little to do with it other than facilitating,  both parties if they have that mindset.

If a 20 yo or 50 yo person of either gender sets out to use others to get ahead,  that's the issue , not the white noise around it.

 While you feel your intentions are genuine about only wanting to have love,  companionship,family....
Many would view the extra thoughts you have as to how that relationship dynamic would be,
 as you simply using the other person.

It's why boe and many keep telling you that the odds of you being used are indeed high.
Your fears are a self fulfilling prophesy.
Not because all women,English or FSU, are users,but because you are  ,so will attract same.

You simply havnt run into a smart enough or desperate enough hottie yet.You'd be instant toast.(if they so wanted)

I'm not advising you to be careful, I'm advising you to do some soul searching  on what a healthy adult relationship built on trust, empathy, and equality looks like.

You'll care enough about the other person to want them to excel in life at anything they choose.They will feel the same about you.
That's when you'll be more likely to find someone to share your life with.


I'm no expert, been divorced.
But it was never over the type of things you fear.
Hopefully you'll find love,and if you do ,I hope you love,no let's say adore,  that person enough to understand what a lot of posters have tried to get across.
   That doesn't mean being a door mat, but it certainly doesn't mean your leading thoughts are self centered.


Only as example:
I've made plenty of parental mistakes,plenty.
yet being a very good father is something that's viewed by woman as a big plus in my court.
 I do think about my role as father and how to improve often. I study about it, i pray about it.
The recognition that  I'm lacking,and questioning myself, is what helps me improve.

And I do not do this to be more attractive to women lol


So ,what will make you a good father?
a good family man and foundation for one?
Do you ask yourself these questions?
 I'm not asking you to explain here.

I'm sure you can be.!

But asking yourself how to, why you want to, etc ,etc, even writing it down...
will hopefully get your thoughts on those things,and self improvement in those  areas, that  any woman that wants a family (same goals as you profess) will see in you.

By the way very very little of this has to do with income or finances. Other than perhaps a true  willingness to make do with less for those you care about.
Most poor men are married,and if good fathers and husbands  have generally happy families.
 




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2018, 10:01:47 AM
Well I think you're bang on right Jumper about her being a user. I think she is probably the type of girl that does generally go for guys she is attracted to or finds attractive, but I think she has a default 'user' aspect about her personality. I think that is why she is still single as she has probably messes  up every single relationship with it, whether she dumps them or they dump her.

I think her wish to have children and marriage is genuine but her personality of using guys probably always ends up trumping that. I think it probably comes almost as an instinct in her, an attitude that is probably extremely hard if not impossible to change.

So no I don't think she was a scammer or play me without any attraction being present. I think she was playing me as part of her personality/attitude to being a user. I think the UK visa thing, etc was the next step in using me. I think after she got what she wanted in terms of being in the UK etc she would have moved on when she found the next best thing if not before. I doubt if I would have had much joy with having family with her.

Thank you Jumper, I think you have finally sorted this out in my mind for me as the whole situation with her was kind of strange as she never really filled the obvious scammer profile to my mind as there was only elements of that present but other elements where she seemed into me. I think to some extent she was genuinely into me but just had a personality trait to use people that I could not quite put my finger on. By which I mean it may not be a planned act to use but an aspect of her personality that comes out as natural to her regardless of how into the guy she is.

I will think over the rest of what you say Jumper. I guess I see what you mean the more down to earth girls that won't be scammers, users, etc will probably be the more everyday looking ones. That's fine but I would still need to feel chemistry with them for it to work I think, but it's definitely worth think about when I'm looking through the profiles of the ladies :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2018, 10:39:37 AM
“yet being a very good father is something that's viewed by woman as a big plus...”

they eat it up like cheesecake at a weight watcher’s convention!!!!

SO MUCH ATTENTION I got from young women in Ukraine when I went out walking with my two daughters, it’s the only time I’ve EVER seen strangers smile at me in the street...

come Victory Day and they’ve been drinking, some of them even embraced us!!!
the sacrifices I have to perform to maintain peace in the world!!!  Za mir!!

put your hand against the surface of an old building
and you can feel the faint echo of something
a father with his care-free daughters feeding the street cats
makes a small bright spot in some stranger’s day

Ukraine is just that kind of place!

a virtual reality that requires no headset...
the color of a TV
tuned to a dead channel
like the Chernigov winter sky

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 07, 2018, 03:31:11 AM
I never said she was a gold digger. She may not want any if your assets etc if she is dojng alright herself. She has her business & uni degree which is what she wanted, point is you outlived your usefulness upon her aquiring these. She might well be more decent than most women innit going after your assets. All I'm saying is playing to what she wanted in the end probably contributed to you relationship ending early. That is of course if you were bothered about how long it lasted.


She left me when my life was a financial mess and Police were knocking at the door - believing I had committed a fraud. She was working as a waitress - renting a room - if that's what you meant by 'doing alright'  :D

Clearly, you had nothing better to do over a Bank Holiday weekend - with nice weather - Mr Billy no mates






 



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 07, 2018, 03:50:53 AM

She left me when my life was a financial mess and Police were knocking at the door - believing I had committed a fraud. She was working as a waitress - renting a room - if that's what you meant by 'doing alright'  :D

Clearly, you had nothing better to do over a Bank Holiday weekend - with nice weather - Mr Billy no mates

I'm doing my building work, time is money as they say. I merely write on here during breaks.

So...she was that type of woman, when the chops are down she's off. Not unusual many women in the UK are like that. During the recession as you no doubt know the divorce rate went up in England as women that were with men who were, wealthy, successful & providers became all of a sudden not so as they were laid off & economic downturn took its toll. So fail as a man and if your with a lady that got with you as she thought you were a sure thing and you're history.

That's not to say she was a poor choice on your part, sometimes we only have the choices to choose from that are before us.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 07, 2018, 04:57:00 AM
I'm doing my building work, time is money as they say. I merely write on here during breaks.


Like I said ...Billy no mates

So...she was that type of woman, when the chops are down she's off. Not unusual many women in the UK are like that. During the recession as you no doubt know the divorce rate went up in England as women that were with men who were, wealthy, successful & providers became all of a sudden not so as they were laid off & economic downturn took its toll. So fail as a man and if your with a lady that got with you as she thought you were a sure thing and you're history.

That's not to say she was a poor choice on your part, sometimes we only have the choices to choose from that are before us.

What a crock of shyte.

As usual,  you 'guessed' wrong and aren't man enough to admit it..

She wasn't a poor choice...at the time...I was!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 07, 2018, 05:24:47 AM

Like I said ...Billy no mates

What a crock of shyte.

As usual,  you 'guessed' wrong and aren't man enough to admit it..

She wasn't a poor choice...at the time...I was!

You were a poor choice when it went shyte. Before she no doubt saw some potential in you but that didn't materialize. So for her time to move on, if you ended up doing worse than her waitressing job then your prospects for her had diassappeared, simple as.

Odds are you bigged yourself up and she thought you were going to hit it big, only to be disappointed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 07, 2018, 06:10:42 AM
You were a poor choice when it went shyte. Before she no doubt saw some potential in you but that didn't materialize. So for her time to move on, if you ended up doing worse than her waitressing job then your prospects for her had diassappeared, simple as.

Odds are you bigged yourself up and she thought you were going to hit it big, only to be disappointed.


You are priceless ... Mr Perennially single giving 'relationship' ( breakdown) device, now ?

The FACT is that she lived with me for six months before agreeing to marry. Do you think she 'missed' something ?


Then we were together for another 5 years and the problem with multiple erroneous charges by the bank went on for 13 months - in our sixth year - which resulted in in UK Police investigating me for fraud...  *I* certainly don't blame her for deciding I might be dodgy, in retrospect . 

I was WELL stressed - seeing all I had built up fall apart and she was taking calls from angry clients and even relatives while I worked away to hold it all together.




 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 07, 2018, 09:45:27 AM


You are priceless ... Mr Perennially single giving 'relationship' ( breakdown) device, now ?

The FACT is that she lived with me for six months before agreeing to marry. Do you think she 'missed' something ?


Then we were together for another 5 years and the problem with multiple erroneous charges by the bank went on for 13 months - in our sixth year - which resulted in in UK Police investigating me for fraud...  *I* certainly don't blame her for deciding I might be dodgy, in retrospect . 

I was WELL stressed - seeing all I had built up fall apart and she was taking calls from angry clients and even relatives while I worked away to hold it all together.

You obviously chose the wrong bank ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 07, 2018, 09:54:17 AM
I'm doing my building work, time is money as they say. I merely write on here during breaks.

So...she was that type of woman, when the chops are down she's off. Not unusual many women in the UK are like that. During the recession as you no doubt know the divorce rate went up in England as women that were with men who were, wealthy, successful & providers became all of a sudden not so as they were laid off & economic downturn took its toll. So fail as a man and if your with a lady that got with you as she thought you were a sure thing and you're history.

That's not to say she was a poor choice on your part, sometimes we only have the choices to choose from that are before us.

When my career ended a tad suddenly my wife's response was clear and pragmatic as most FSU people are.
  Dont worry, I'll get a job
(Not,its ok,you'll find work)


Thankfully that wasn't required, but you need to understand in FSU culture it is not at all unusual for a woman to work,or for that matter to support her man.


To your point,yes some women of any nationality will abandon ship if it's in troubled waters.

What about you?
When she's older and no longer the young hotty.but a typical UK older mum?

Your mentality on relationships suggests your be like many men and buy a red sports car and chase university girls.

Hope not,but you can't throw stones from a glass house.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 07, 2018, 09:56:23 AM
You obviously chose the wrong bank ;D

Ok , that was good.

Sorry moby ..lol
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 07, 2018, 10:38:22 AM
You obviously chose the wrong bank ;D

Clearly, but I had no choice having been asked to provide 150k bonds to UK banks having 'no track record' when I moved back to the UK.

Not that this explanation excuses another one of your daft analyses...your being such an expert on LTRs with FSU women.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 07, 2018, 10:55:51 AM
Ok , that was good.

Sorry moby ..lol

Given their prolonged misadminstration cost is SO much you'll 'forgive 'me wondering at your Trench-liike 'empathy'

Sorry Jumper....Trench wanted to score and did.




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 07, 2018, 11:36:35 AM
Clearly, but I had no choice having been asked to provide 150k bonds to UK banks having 'no track record' when I moved back to the UK.

£150k bonds? I thought it was normally the government that issues bonds Mobers, that's a lot of money to have lying around.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 07, 2018, 08:13:45 PM
Given their prolonged misadminstration cost is SO much you'll 'forgive 'me wondering at your Trench-liike 'empathy'

Sorry Jumper....Trench wanted to score and did.

Apologies, i actually did  feel for you going through all that at the time,and you seemed to recover well now .
Dint mean to make too light of it  or imply it wasnt something serious in your life,as I'm sure it was.









Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 07, 2018, 11:02:24 PM
Real sensitive  subject

I was taking 50k month on credit card payments with a Cyprus bank, never thinking the UK banks would not respect my trading history and I had to change bank when changing country of residence.

Only one bank did not insist on blocking my payouts for three months ..in case of charge backs. ....

I had never had one.

I started getting clients saying  they weren't getting a service I had paid for...sometimes paying SEVEN times and it went on for 13 months

The institution took too long to admit their huge howler and our lives were hell.

All behind me now  but the bank took too long to admit the 479 instances of multiple charging and come to a satisfactory arrangement





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 08, 2018, 12:54:52 AM
I was taking 50k month on credit card payments with a Cyprus bank, never thinking the UK banks would not respect my trading history and I had to change bank when changing country of residence.

50k is a lot of money to be taking in a month, what services were you providing?

Maybe they thought it might be dodgy money with all the Russian money laundering that was going on in Cyprus.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 08, 2018, 06:14:31 AM
50k is a lot of money to be taking in a month, what services were you providing?

A perfectly legal service

Maybe they thought it might be dodgy money with all the Russian money laundering that was going on in Cyprus.

No.. I hadn't been resident in the UK for 8.5 years and had no UK based  financial history

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 08, 2018, 06:57:33 AM
try HSBC, I've had them for about 10 yr
not in my name but for a registered corp based in Isle Of Man
have not had to post bond for CC processing
good bank I like them
and I have a "cheque book" that I can write cheques in Sterling!
this means I'm British!
I want to vote to stay in the EU but keep British currency
and I want some damned Yorkshire pudding!!!
would you care for some tea?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 08, 2018, 07:16:21 AM
try HSBC, I've had them for about 10 yr
not in my name but for a registered corp based in Isle Of Man


Tried HSBC, Natwest ( Streamline) , World pay, Lloyds card services - ALL UK card merchant services.. no credit history - they block payment for 3 months

I drink tea black - with Lemon, thanks - no sugar - sweet enough, x
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 08, 2018, 07:21:46 AM
A perfectly legal service

No.. I hadn't been resident in the UK for 8.5 years and had no UK based  financial history

Yeah, yeah ;D Are you sure your wife wasn't using you unwittingly as a money mule, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 08, 2018, 07:24:21 AM

Tried HSBC, Natwest ( Streamline) , World pay, Lloyds card services - ALL UK card merchant services.. no credit history - they block payment for 3 months

I drink tea black - with Lemon, thanks - no sugar - sweet enough, x

How come you didn't leave a UK bank account open with a few quid left inside. I know you told us you moved from Ireland to UK when you were school age, did you not remain in UK long after leaving School?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 08, 2018, 07:36:02 AM
"I drink tea black - with Lemon, thanks - no sugar - sweet enough, x "

Earl Grey or Darjeeling(black)?
we also have "egg cups" in my house
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 08, 2018, 07:37:07 AM
How come you didn't leave a UK bank account open with a few quid left inside. I know you told us you moved from Ireland to UK when you were school age, did you not remain in UK long after leaving School?

My NatWest bank man advised me to close the account !

When I returned - he felt bad and offered me a £1500 biz overdraft facility ....   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 08, 2018, 07:38:23 AM
Yeah, yeah ;D Are you sure your wife wasn't using you unwittingly as a money mule, lol.

QUITE...  you mustn't get confused by the std of your 'conquests' ..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 08, 2018, 07:40:35 AM
"I drink tea black - with Lemon, thanks - no sugar - sweet enough, x "

Earl Grey or Darjeeling(black)?
we also have "egg cups" in my house

Lapsang souchong  - if you have no Lemons ... Either of the above are great ;)

I like soldiers to dip in my runny egg yolks ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 08, 2018, 07:45:32 AM
"I like soldiers to dip in my runny egg yolks ... "

me to!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 08, 2018, 10:32:18 AM
My NatWest bank man advised me to close the account !

When I returned - he felt bad and offered me a £1500 biz overdraft facility ....

 ::) Always amazed at how some people can make a lot of money whilst sorely be lacking in common sense!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 08, 2018, 11:55:00 AM
::) Always amazed at how some people can make a lot of money whilst sorely be lacking in common sense!

I'll 'bite' - "Mr I've been an ex-pat - not "

Explain yourself and what you'd have done
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 08, 2018, 12:32:48 PM
I'll 'bite' - "Mr I've been an ex-pat - not "

Explain yourself and what you'd have done

Quite clearly I would have left my UK bank account open, it would essentially cost nothing, they would be none the wiser nor I doubt care and it would have always been useful to you, just in case, of a return, to visit relatives, holidays, etc.

The offer of an overdraft facility is pretty much a damp squid.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 08, 2018, 12:38:28 PM
Quite clearly I would have left my UK bank account open, it would essentially cost nothing, they would be none the wiser nor I doubt care and it would have always been useful to you, just in case, of a return, to visit relatives, holidays, etc.

The offer of an overdraft facility is pretty much a damp squid.

I knew it - you ARE a soft sap


As I was earning overseas WHY would I keep a UK bank account open - I had NO tax affairs in the UK


I kept 2 UK credit cards and cleared them from overseas

NOT earning in the UK - no credit history

So, we can add 'financial adviser' to your long list of 'expertise '  :ROFL:

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 08, 2018, 02:21:06 PM
I knew it - you ARE a soft sap


As I was earning overseas WHY would I keep a UK bank account open - I had NO tax affairs in the UK


I kept 2 UK credit cards and cleared them from overseas

NOT earning in the UK - no credit history

So, we can add 'financial adviser' to your long list of 'expertise '  :ROFL:

Mobe, UK banks have no idea what you are earning nor tax what you are paying if any. If you had kept your bank account open you would have kept your credit reference file open part of which is details of bank details. Otherwise when they do a credit ref search there are big blank spaces where most people have bank details, etc. Hence your problem occurring.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 08, 2018, 02:22:29 PM
"I like soldiers to dip in my runny egg yolks ... "

a real Yorkshire man will have Colman's Mustard with his "soldiers"
the one with yellow tin...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 08, 2018, 11:58:17 PM
Mobe, UK banks have no idea what you are earning nor tax what you are paying if any. If you had kept your bank account open you would have kept your credit reference file open part of which is details of bank details. Otherwise when they do a credit ref search there are big blank spaces where most people have bank details, etc. Hence your problem occurring.

Once again,

Just admit it - you ARE clueless

As I was not earning in the UK - WHY would I send money to a UK bank ?  Sending money there WOULD have caused Tax issues ..

Like I said - you've not got a clue - never been an ex-pat...just more Trench wasting cyberspace


I never closed the account - just didn't USE it


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2018, 12:38:00 AM
Once again,

Just admit it - you ARE clueless

As I was not earning in the UK - WHY would I send money to a UK bank ?  Sending money there WOULD have caused Tax issues ..

Like I said - you've not got a clue - never been an ex-pat...just more Trench wasting cyberspace


I never closed the account - just didn't USE it

Earlier you said "why would I keep a UK bank account open?" And that the Natwest man advised you to close it, he felt bad so assumingly  you closed the account.

I'm pretty sure I don't monitor the odd few quid going in & out if everyone's bank account. Imagine the workforce needed to do that. Credit ref agencies only ten to know when you are in trouble/have been in trouble. They know nothing of your wages or bank account that's classified information. All they know is how much you are maxed out on any credit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 09, 2018, 02:32:32 AM
Earlier you said "why would I keep a UK bank account open?" And that the Natwest man advised you to close it, he felt bad so assumingly  you closed the account.

HE may have said to close it - but I kept one pound in it ..

I'm pretty sure I don't monitor the odd few quid going in & out if everyone's bank account. Imagine the workforce needed to do that. Credit ref agencies only ten to know when you are in trouble/have been in trouble. They know nothing of your wages or bank account that's classified information. All they know is how much you are maxed out on any credit.

Once again, Trench proves he is clueless on most stuff

CRA's give crap scores to people who don't borrow - I kept paying off two UK CR cards ...  IF you haven't been resident in the UK for 6 years or more BAD

When are you going to post on a subject you HAVE had practical expertise ? ..Other than how NOT to try to date ? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2018, 04:22:30 AM
HE may have said to close it - but I kept one pound in it ..

Once again, Trench proves he is clueless on most stuff

CRA's give crap scores to people who don't borrow - I kept paying off two UK CR cards ...  IF you haven't been resident in the UK for 6 years or more BAD

When are you going to post on a subject you HAVE had practical expertise ? ..Other than how NOT to try to date ?

I think you are now giving out BS,  you closed it but have now realised you look foolish on here for doing so. So you are backtracking and are now telling everyone you kept it open, am I right? :)

CRA's give bad scores to those that have NEVER had a credit card, nor to those that have even if no longer using as much. If you we'd still using yours even if just paying of you would have been fine. Afraid the only culprit was your own stupidity here Mobers for not keeping a bank account open.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2018, 04:46:12 AM
Not foolish at all.  The UK taxes individuals based on residency.  A bank account would be an indicia of residency, subjecting the person with the bank account to (presumably) higher taxes. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2018, 05:56:00 AM
The UK primary taxes are, Income tax - based on earnings from work, or income in general. VAT - a tax on sale of goods & services. Council tax - based on residence where one lives.

Aditionally, there is Corporation tax for private & public companies.

If Mobers just has a bank account with a residual amount of money in it or going to & from it, it is highly unlikely to flag up any requirement to tax.

For those bringing in significant income not through work based earnings there is self assessment that must be completed each year. Howe very,  since Mobers was abroad he would have no significant income in this country so would not need to complete one. IR are not concerned about a few hundred pounds here or there, there are tax free allowances to cover these bothering them, they have far bigger fish to fry.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2018, 07:20:07 AM
No you are wrong on this. You can go search the case law.

I don’t need a lesson in tax law.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2018, 08:46:52 AM
No you are wrong on this. You can go search the case law.

I don’t need a lesson in tax law.

Oooo... looks like someone has had their cage rattled :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2018, 09:07:09 AM
Hardly.  As moby stated, if you are going to post nonsense, then don't be surprised if you're called out on it.  To avoid residency for tax purposes, all ties must be severed, and yes, tax authorities look at them, as do the courts.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2018, 09:31:29 AM
Hardly.  As moby stated, if you are going to post nonsense, then don't be surprised if you're called out on it.  To avoid residency for tax purposes, all ties must be severed, and yes, tax authorities look at them, as do the courts.

But that's not to say you will be taxed only that they have he ability to, if little/no money is being dealt with within the UK then there is no tax implication.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2018, 11:50:44 AM
No.  If you are found to be resident by virtue of not severing your ties to the UK, you will be taxed on your worldwide income, for each year you are deemed to be resident.  If you are taxed at a lesser rate in the country in which you currently reside, you will be paying penalties and interest.  That is why you sever all ties.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2018, 11:55:41 AM
No.  If you are found to be resident by virtue of not severing your ties to the UK, you will be taxed on your worldwide income, for each year you are deemed to be resident.  If you are taxed at a lesser rate in the country in which you currently reside, you will be paying penalties and interest.  That is why you sever all ties.

Yeah, but there not going to know what you have in other countries as the UK gov will not have access to another country's residents tax info.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2018, 12:01:55 PM
If there is a tax treaty with that other country, then yes, UK taxation authorities will have access to that information.  So, you are absolutely incorrect.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2018, 12:32:59 PM
If there is a tax treaty with that other country, then yes, UK taxation authorities will have access to that information.  So, you are absolutely incorrect.

Only probably really happens when a lot of money is at stake and they've come to the authorities attention because of that. For the average joe with a few quid income here or there its doubtful the time or trouble is bothered about with them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2018, 12:34:16 PM
No, it doesn't.  If you are taxable, they will assess you. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 09, 2018, 05:50:08 PM
Case in point - my mother receives a tiny (40-odd pounds per quarter) pension from the UK as a hangover from when she worked there for a while more than 30 years ago.  Both countries' Inland Revenue departments are aware of this, and require it to be included in her tax returns every year - even though she has no UK income apart from this, and it's so small that it's tax-exempt anyway.

So no, Trenchcoat - once again you've proven that there's yet another subject where you simply haven't a clue.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2018, 06:10:11 PM
Case in point - my mother receives a tiny (40-odd pounds per quarter) pension from the UK as a hangover from when she worked there for a while more than 30 years ago.  Both countries' Inland Revenue departments are aware of this, and require it to be included in her tax returns every year - even though she has no UK income apart from this, and it's so small that it's tax-exempt anyway.

So no, Trenchcoat - once again you've proven that there's yet another subject where you simply haven't a clue.

Actually, you have precisely proven my point, in the UK you have a personal allowance of just over 11k per annum. Hence like I said earlier, small amounts will not be taxable by the UK gov so a few hundred pounds going back and forth will not be taxed. Hence no need to close a UK bank account.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 09, 2018, 06:28:19 PM
Actually, you have precisely proven my point, in the UK you have a personal allowance of just over 11k per annum. Hence like I said earlier, small amounts will not be taxable by the UK gov so a few hundred pounds going back and forth will not be taxed. Hence no need to close a UK bank account.

You're as bad as some of the US posters on here when it comes to reading what has been written!

What we are trying to tell you is that both governments are aware of ALL transactions.  My mother doesn't have a UK bank account, but is still required to request an annual UK tax exemption because she is an overseas recipient of a UK pension.  The fact that the amount is so small is totally beside the point!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

I really don't know why I bother  :wallbash: - my application for sainthood must have got lost in the mail ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2018, 06:36:29 PM
Actually, you have precisely proven my point, in the UK you have a personal allowance of just over 11k per annum. Hence like I said earlier, small amounts will not be taxable by the UK gov so a few hundred pounds going back and forth will not be taxed. Hence no need to close a UK bank account.

You are only entitled to an allowance or exemption if you are resident in a country.  The exemption is not because it’s a small amount, it is because it is covered by a tax treaty.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 09, 2018, 11:10:40 PM
You are only entitled to an allowance or exemption if you are resident in a country.  The exemption is not because it’s a small amount, it is because it is covered by a tax treaty.

If this is so then Mobers would have been best being resident in both countries part of the year to maintain his tax status and credit reference. Clearly he had not thought things through enough  here :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2018, 11:46:50 PM
You don’t pay tax for part of a year. If you’re deemed resident, it’s for the entire year.
Then you’re paying high UK tax without any of the benefits.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on May 10, 2018, 02:38:07 AM
You're as bad as some of the US posters on here when it comes to reading what has been written!

What we are trying to tell you is that both governments are aware of ALL transactions.  My mother doesn't have a UK bank account, but is still required to request an annual UK tax exemption because she is an overseas recipient of a UK pension.  The fact that the amount is so small is totally beside the point!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

I really don't know why I bother  :wallbash: - my application for sainthood must have got lost in the mail ...

No, Kiwi,  your application did not get lost in the mail.  We've been reviewing it.  Barring any difficulties, Sainthood (level 1) should be awarded you as soon as you expire.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 10, 2018, 03:54:29 AM
You don’t pay tax for part of a year. If you’re deemed resident, it’s for the entire year.
Then you’re paying high UK tax without any of the benefits.

Mobers would be deemed resident for the entire year even if he were there for part of the year. A bit like if a UK citizen goes on a long holiday during the year, the tax man would not know when or where but the personal allowance and tax would be for the full tax year. Higher rate would only apply if he passed the income threshold for that higher rate. Same as usual.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 10, 2018, 04:20:56 AM
Yes, I posted that you are resident for the entire year, if deemed resident.


Higher rate than where he is living.


If you have income in one jurisdiction, but live in another, you are taxed in both, and then rely on treaties to reduce tax.  That's why, if you are working abroad, in a lower tax jurisdiction, you try to cease residency. 


Please just stop.  This is not "google" stuff.  The bottom line is, he ceased UK residency for tax purposes for a reason, and that reason is usually about paying less tax.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 10, 2018, 06:01:30 PM
Yes, I posted that you are resident for the entire year, if deemed resident.


Higher rate than where he is living.


If you have income in one jurisdiction, but live in another, you are taxed in both, and then rely on treaties to reduce tax.  That's why, if you are working abroad, in a lower tax jurisdiction, you try to cease residency. 


Please just stop.  This is not "google" stuff.  The bottom line is, he ceased UK residency for tax purposes for a reason, and that reason is usually about paying less tax.

Ok, you're near enough there so I'll let you off on this one ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 10, 2018, 09:49:34 PM
I see Trench is now a 'tax expert', too ....


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 10, 2018, 11:20:16 PM
I see Trench is now a 'tax expert', too ....

Quiet Mobers, if you had listened to Boethius you should have closed your UK bank account :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 11, 2018, 05:00:02 AM
Common trait with Trench...when busted for  stupidity,  praises another expert, rather than acknowledging his crass stupidity and failing to note he was wrong all along.

Troll
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 11, 2018, 08:31:14 AM
Going back to an earlier discussion on here but very pertinent today with these news stories out demonstrating the housing situation, rather problem in the UK today. Fortunately I no longer fall into this category and now have my own house so I'm one of the fortunate ones there, many though are not so fortunate and should I hope demonstrate to forum members why the big vote to Leave the EU:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-44061512/sex-and-dating-when-you-live-with-your-parents

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-44084334/it-s-just-going-to-be-renting-until-i-die

So those with the type of wealth Mobers has is a small minority in the UK not the mainstream.

An article on the now increasing divisions on the Labour party on its position on Brexit is now opening up big time after months of it sizzling under the surface. It looks like the issue threatens to tear both the Tory and the Labour party apart unless the matter is settled when the EU withdrawal bill returns to the House of Commons soon. Interesting to note the Labour leadership (Jeremy Corbyn) have openly for the first time stated they wish to leave the EU single market so they can intervene in industry - reverse privatisations where deemed appropriate, etc. This is bound to open up a massive rift with those in the Labour party pushing for a customs union - i.e still essentially being part of a single market that precludes government intervention by any member state to ensure a level playing field:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-eu-referendum-uk-mps-a8343746.html

This article interesting also:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-durham-miners-gala-invite-corbyn-eu-referendum-party-trade-union-a8347076.html
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 11, 2018, 01:44:04 PM
Trench,

If you paid attention to what I told you..you would realise that JC is a europhobe.

The UK housing crisis has nought to do with Brexit policies. ..more to do with buy to rent pushing up prices.

Once more, you just keep proving most things are beyond you.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 11, 2018, 05:46:28 PM
Trench,

If you paid attention to what I told you..you would realise that JC is a europhobe.

The UK housing crisis has nought to do with Brexit policies. ..more to do with buy to rent pushing up prices.

Once more, you just keep proving most things are beyond you.

Find me the link where you mention about JC I think you find you haven't. I know JC  was not exactly a big fan of the EU, he begrudgingly joined the Remain side during the referendum due to pressure from within the Labour party but he was never really fully on board.

However, if this article is correct and JC's position is in favour of voting down the Lords amendments then there may still be hope that we will properly leave the EU :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 11, 2018, 09:52:49 PM
Trench, unlike you, I do remember what I post and don't change my position to save face.

JC was conspicuously silent on what Labour policy was 're the referendum and in your usual inattentive style..missed Labour voters seeking direction....


If there was a way to ensure a vote of no confidence ..JC will use it .






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 12, 2018, 01:53:22 AM
Trench, unlike you, I do remember what I post and don't change my position to save face.

JC was conspicuously silent on what Labour policy was 're the referendum and in your usual inattentive style..missed Labour voters seeking direction....


If there was a way to ensure a vote of no confidence ..JC will use it .

Ah so you can't find it can you? Maybe because you never wrote it?

JC was never that enthusiastic for the UK to remain in the EU. When asked on TV how much in favour of remaining in the EU during the referendum he reply was half hearted, "a seven or 7 & a half out of 10 to remain in the EU" lol.

He basically knows Labour supporters are split on the issue so he tries to walk the tightrope between the two. That was why he was upset with the peers as they went against the bill he quietly wanted passed as he personally wants the UK to leave as explained in the article. The Lords labour peers vote pushes him to vote down an amended he would rather not have to vote on in the first place.

I don't see him trying to bring the government down on it though. He knows if he makes it a no confidence issue the Tories are likely to not real as much anyway. I think he'll state his preference to vote down most of the amendments and he'll carry enough Labour MP's with him to support the government in voting them down.

Either way it's getting near crunch time so we'll know for sure on all of this soon :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 13, 2018, 12:17:22 AM
Trenchcoat please do not escalate a dispute with an Ukraine police officer. You will loose.

I've seen Ukrainian Police Officers they are pussies, they would be no match.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 13, 2018, 12:52:53 AM
LOL. Right. You’ve seen traffic police. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 13, 2018, 04:48:56 AM
I've seen Ukrainian Police Officers they are pussies, they would be no match.

FORUM ANNOUNCEMENT: Stupid has spoken.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 13, 2018, 05:24:40 AM
FORUM ANNOUNCEMENT: Stupid has spoken.

Has TC ever been to Ukraine? He often talks nonsense about both the UK & Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 13, 2018, 05:39:47 AM
Has TC ever been to Ukraine? He often talks nonsense about both the UK & Ukraine.

3 times to Ukraine. Soon to be fourth :)

I'm a UK citizen born & bred, live in UK every year since birth.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 15, 2018, 12:31:38 PM
But back to the point and you see what I was up against. It was the same spoilt brat mentality which surprised me seeing that my last girl was living in poor circumstances in an industrial dumpsk. I think her father might have spoilt her as he bought her jewellery & stuff from his earnings in Poland. My only thought is that in a year or two as she gets into her late twenties she may start to grow up a bit, by which I mean hopefully not ascend to to a higher level of materialism, lol. By then though of course I may have found myself another girl.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 15, 2018, 01:16:31 PM
But back to the point and you see what I was up against. It was the same spoilt brat mentality which surprised me seeing that my last girl was living in poor circumstances in an industrial dumpsk. I think her father might have spoilt her as he bought her jewellery & stuff from his earnings in Poland. My only thought is that in a year or two as she gets into her late twenties she may start to grow up a bit, by which I mean hopefully not ascend to to a higher level of materialism, lol. By then though of course I may have found myself another girl.
This is what happens when you persist with elenasmodels! I looked at that site and decided that it was not the place for a Brit to find a life-partner. It is directed towards Americans rather than Europeans. There are better sites out there such as dmnotify and fdating with realistic women.

BTW Forget about your last woman, and look forward to the next one. You should be seeking a woman in her thirties. I am older than you, and women in their mid/late thirties were writing to me, some of whom were seeking their first child. If an old man like me can get such attention, then why not you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 15, 2018, 02:00:30 PM
But back to the point and you see what I was up against. It was the same spoilt brat mentality which surprised me seeing that my last girl was living in poor circumstances in an industrial dumpsk.

This attitude is why you will not succeed.  You are not doing a woman any favours by assuming you are, in a miserly fashion, providing her with material goods she otherwise would not have had.  But, go ahead and tell Ukrainians they live in dump like surroundings.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 15, 2018, 02:46:19 PM
This attitude is why you will not succeed.  You are not doing a woman any favours by assuming you are, in a miserly fashion, providing her with material goods she otherwise would not have had.  But, go ahead and tell Ukrainians they live in dump like surroundings.

I thought FSW liked having direct conversations.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 15, 2018, 03:02:53 PM
Great.  Then try it!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2018, 05:34:54 PM
"But, go ahead and tell Ukrainians they live in dump like surroundings."

curious if you've ever been to "villages" and inside someone's home there
in Crimea a lot of Agricultural villages were established in Czarist and CCCP period to provide agricultural labor
a typical dwelling would be a 2 room shack with a leaky roof and no indoor toilet
probably half the dwellings are like this (and we're talking about now, and not 50 yr ago)

living in a little trailer next to a garbage dump somewhere in Alabama would be better than this...
Ukrainians understand, you don't have to tell them
a familiar refrain, "this is our life..."

the young women in these towns are natural beauties who are used to hard physical work
and look like Olympic athletes
and are sick of the environment they're living in

given these circumstances, how does anyone fail at this?
it's so damned easy...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 15, 2018, 05:37:17 PM
This is what happens when you persist with elenasmodels! I looked at that site and decided that it was not the place for a Brit to find a life-partner. It is directed towards Americans rather than Europeans. There are better sites out there such as dmnotify and fdating with realistic women.

I know that this is slightly  :offtopic:, but why would you say this?  The founder of the site, Elena Petrova, is married to an Australian, and has lived there for umpteen years.  Having used it myself, I'm quite happy to vouch for the quality of women that I corresponded with (and met).  Sure, I also encountered a couple of scammers, but they were removed within hours of me contacting the site admin.  It would probably be safe to say that most of the women on the site (as with any other) would prefer the USA as their first choice of destination, but there certainly doesn't appear to be any bias towards any country.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 15, 2018, 05:41:29 PM
"But, go ahead and tell Ukrainians they live in dump like surroundings."

curious if you've ever been to "villages" and inside someone's home there


Of course I have, although not all villages are poor.  The villages around Kyiv, for example, are, and were, relatively wealthy.


The youth have almost all left the villages already.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 15, 2018, 05:42:08 PM
I know that this is slightly  :offtopic: , but why would you say this?  The founder of the site, Elena Petrova, is married to an Australian, and has lived there for umpteen years.


Pretty certain they divorced quite some time ago.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 15, 2018, 05:53:24 PM

Pretty certain they divorced quite some time ago.

Maybe so, but irrelevant in this context.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 15, 2018, 06:49:03 PM
It would probably be safe to say that most of the women on the site (as with any other) would prefer the USA as their first choice of destination, but there certainly doesn't appear to be any bias towards any country.

I would not think that, many stats give Europe as the preferred destination for FSW, even the UK. Basically because it is much closer so more convenient. If things don't go well there can still be a reasonable chance of making it back home easy, but if there is a big ocean in the way they could be very much stuck in the USA. Visiting family would also be cheaper and quicker and the girl would know they are not vast distances away. I briefly tried with a couple of fake profiles online and with the same woman the UK profile got more response than a USA profile, I believe the big geographical distance is off putting for a lot of women. Some women will like the adventure I think and the USA or parts of it such as Hollywood, California, Florida, etc. I think in all though US guys can have a much tougher time getting responses on bonafide dating sites than UK/European guys.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 15, 2018, 07:06:10 PM
"But, go ahead and tell Ukrainians they live in dump like surroundings."

curious if you've ever been to "villages" and inside someone's home there
in Crimea a lot of Agricultural villages were established in Czarist and CCCP period to provide agricultural labor
a typical dwelling would be a 2 room shack with a leaky roof and no indoor toilet
probably half the dwellings are like this (and we're talking about now, and not 50 yr ago)

living in a little trailer next to a garbage dump somewhere in Alabama would be better than this...
Ukrainians understand, you don't have to tell them
a familiar refrain, "this is our life..."

the young women in these towns are natural beauties who are used to hard physical work
and look like Olympic athletes
and are sick of the environment they're living in

given these circumstances, how does anyone fail at this?
it's so damned easy...


I think aside from those where there is chemistry, the ones who do fail assuming there is something there for them to be in a relationship on other terms fail because those terms are not as strong as natural chemistry. I think some may get a perfectly good marriage out of being in a marriage other than for love but that its a whole different ball game. I think the biggest issue is if and when a FSW realises that the western country she is in she can get a lot more than the original deal that she accepted with the guy. So:

-A better guy, more wealthier, or socially skilled, or physical for, or more attraction, younger guy, etc.

-A better job/career, education.

-A claim of some of the guys estate. 

The point at which a woman realises what she can get (if ever) but most likely at some point no doubt varies. I think with women with a low level of English are likely to remain in the dark for longer. Some posters on here criticise the men here for knowing little to nothing of FSU culture but in reverse I think most of the FSW have little clue about our culture. The first girl I met seemed to have no clue that the theatre tickets I bought would cost about ten times more in the UK - I of course quickly changed tack to avoid revealing this to her ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2018, 07:22:10 PM
i think they fail for the same reason everyone fails
it's like chess
some stumble
some are grand masters
play within your means and ability

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 15, 2018, 09:30:47 PM
I would not think that, many stats give Europe as the preferred destination for FSW, even the UK. Basically because it is much closer so more convenient. If things don't go well there can still be a reasonable chance of making it back home easy, but if there is a big ocean in the way they could be very much stuck in the USA. Visiting family would also be cheaper and quicker and the girl would know they are not vast distances away. I briefly tried with a couple of fake profiles online and with the same woman the UK profile got more response than a USA profile, I believe the big geographical distance is off putting for a lot of women. Some women will like the adventure I think and the USA or parts of it such as Hollywood, California, Florida, etc. I think in all though US guys can have a much tougher time getting responses on bonafide dating sites than UK/European guys.

Most of the women we know or my wife worked with wanted the US. They still see it as the land of opportunity, even if that dream is harder to attain these days.

But like you say, we know one lady who married a Spaniard because of proximity to Ukraine. She wanted to return home more often. In the end I think it will have to do with the person versus location.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 15, 2018, 10:05:13 PM
Trench's "I would think" are normally a warning sign that proves he doesn't....THINK..

There was a time when the USA was THE desired place to look for a guy.

Especially in Russia, there's been a concerted campaign on Kremlin controlled media to portray life in America as much harder than the 'dream'. 

The crash of 2007 and it's economic fallout 'suggested' that the dream was over.  The Kremlin has succeeded in restoring pride in being Russian

For sure, Europe is closer - but the ladies I know were looking a the guy - not so such his country ..(though normally excl. guys from 'Muslim countries' )
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 16, 2018, 07:35:41 AM
Trench's "I would think" are normally a warning sign that proves he doesn't....THINK..

There was a time when the USA was THE desired place to look for a guy.

Especially in Russia, there's been a concerted campaign on Kremlin controlled media to portray life in America as much harder than the 'dream'. 

The crash of 2007 and it's economic fallout 'suggested' that the dream was over.  The Kremlin has succeeded in restoring pride in being Russian

For sure, Europe is closer - but the ladies I know were looking a the guy - not so such his country ..(though normally excl. guys from 'Muslim countries' )

I of course defer to your 'greatness' in this matter ::)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 16, 2018, 12:41:30 PM
If only that were true...

We were in Larnaca, ( Cyprus) today .... Svetlana complained that apart from the presence of sand not stones - given the number of RU speakers - she might as well have been in Sochi, Russia
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 16, 2018, 01:10:24 PM
If only that were true...

We were in Larnaca, ( Cyprus) today .... Svetlana complained that apart from the presence of sand not stones - given the number of RU speakers - she might as well have been in Sochi, Russia

I remember Larnaca beach from last year :) It was on our last day as it was near the airport. We stayed at the Flamingo Hotel opposite the beach. The hotel was decent enough though not as nice as the hotel we stayed in Limassol. The balconies over looking the beach as the planes flew past particularly at sunset made for a nice photo opportunity. Not many airport hotels do you find overlooking a nice sandy beach, lol.

She got talking briefly to some Russian speaking women in the hotel lift so yeah an interesting mix of English, Russians & Greeks there.

Anyway, we went on the beach for most of the day; me taking as much shelter as I could under the parasol from the scorching sun. Her skin was more atune to taking such rays, my more sensitive skin less so. In fact despite hiding in the shade as best I could with sun cream & partially covered I still got a bit burnt. Glad I didn't expose myself to the full force of the 40 degrees or so sun.

We got some food in the grill place near the hotel which was ok but took ages. Later in the late afternoon/evening we dined at one of the Greek restaurants along the road overlooking the beach, quite nice food there, white table cloths, blue canopy I think it was, quite smart looking. So a nice romantic setting for the end of the holiday.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 16, 2018, 08:36:32 PM
I would not think that, many stats give Europe as the preferred destination for FSW, even the UK.

What stats are you looking at dude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_diaspora

There's 3 million + Russians in the USA, 1/2 million in Canada and less than 35k in the UK. 

Other than FSU countries North America by far has more Russian immigrants than anywhere else.

Trench bought your plane ticket yet? haha


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 16, 2018, 09:25:47 PM
I remember Larnaca beach from last year :) It was on our last day as it was near the airport. We stayed at the Flamingo Hotel opposite the beach. The hotel was decent enough though not as nice as the hotel we stayed in Limassol. The balconies over looking the beach as the planes flew past particularly at sunset made for a nice photo opportunity. Not many airport hotels do you find overlooking a nice sandy beach, lol.

She got talking briefly to some Russian speaking women in the hotel lift so yeah an interesting mix of English, Russians & Greeks there.

Anyway, we went on the beach for most of the day; me taking as much shelter as I could under the parasol from the scorching sun. Her skin was more atune to taking such rays, my more sensitive skin less so. In fact despite hiding in the shade as best I could with sun cream & partially covered I still got a bit burnt. Glad I didn't expose myself to the full force of the 40 degrees or so sun.

We got some food in the grill place near the hotel which was ok but took ages. Later in the late afternoon/evening we dined at one of the Greek restaurants along the road overlooking the beach, quite nice food there, white table cloths, blue canopy I think it was, quite smart looking. So a nice romantic setting for the end of the holiday.

 :tmi:  It reads like something TC has read and is using to convince us that it actually happened .

BTW TC --where is that list of exactly what was bought and at what price?
You have made endless nothing posts since the last request(  & hundreds since first requested)  & it is not that hard to give us some hard info on the "spending spree" @
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 16, 2018, 10:06:02 PM
What stats are you looking at dude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_diaspora

There's 3 million + Russians in the USA, 1/2 million in Canada and less than 35k in the UK. 

Other than FSU countries North America by far has more Russian immigrants than anywhere else.

Trench bought your plane ticket yet? haha

The USA & Canada are much larger countries than the UK. Per square metre there is probably not much difference ;D

Yes I have bought my plane ticket, I travel to Ukraine again early next month so its all happening again now. Even if nothing comes of this trip I will look to try again regularly this year and keep at it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 16, 2018, 10:08:28 PM
:tmi:  It reads like something TC has read and is using to convince us that it actually happened .

BTW TC --where is that list of exactly what was bought and at what price?
You have made endless nothing posts since the last request(  & hundreds since first requested)  & it is not that hard to give us some hard info on the "spending spree" @

I'm getting around to it but busy organising this year's trip to Ukraine so that has had to come first. I will do though in due course.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on May 16, 2018, 10:23:11 PM
Even if nothing comes of this trip I will look to try again regularly this year and keep at it.


An above average guy with an above average brain can be 100% successful in this endeavor. A guy who beats most of his competition can get a quality woman. For the guys out there who let bad agencies and women run over them or those who finds a good woman and can't keep her, you need to make changes or your mistakes will repeat.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 16, 2018, 11:24:26 PM
An above average guy with an above average brain can be 100% successful in this endeavor. A guy who beats most of his competition can get a quality woman. For the guys out there who let bad agencies and women run over them or those who finds a good woman and can't keep her, you need to make changes or your mistakes will repeat.

I'm betting it'll be crash and burn as usual.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 16, 2018, 11:46:39 PM
Cyprus is only around 1m population and there's more than 30K RU speakers in Limassol  It has RU lang Capital Radio - based in Limassol and most shops in Paphos, Limassol and Larnaca have RU speakers - CY has one of the highest percentage of RU speakers outside former CIS countries

'Greek' restaurants on seafronts tend to be - like most places - not very authentic ..far better to hire a car and eat in the mountains

More about Larnaca here: 

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=post;topic=22570.0;last_msg=482549 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=post;topic=22570.0;last_msg=482549)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 17, 2018, 08:46:17 AM
BTW TC --where is that list of exactly what was bought and at what price?
You have made endless nothing posts since the last request(  & hundreds since first requested)  & it is not that hard to give us some hard info on the "spending spree"

He provided said information in post #117 on July 17, 2017 in this thread ...

"To be honest at a rough adding up I'm guessing the clothes came to around £400 (possibly more think some more costs appeared on my credit card since I added this up), cosmetics & sprays around £200 and her half of the food bill around £400. So around £1k all together, some may not see this as a lot but on top of flight costs, hotel cost (four star hotel) and hire car cost for the week and of course my own spending it all added up to rather a lot. "

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2018, 01:56:29 PM
He provided said information in post #117 on July 17, 2017 in this thread ...

"To be honest at a rough adding up I'm guessing the clothes came to around £400 (possibly more think some more costs appeared on my credit card since I added this up), cosmetics & sprays around £200 and her half of the food bill around £400. So around £1k all together, some may not see this as a lot but on top of flight costs, hotel cost (four star hotel) and hire car cost for the week and of course my own spending it all added up to rather a lot. "



So, assuming there was another £200 for clothing, he spent all of £700 on clothing and cosmetics, and thinks this is a huge sum of money.  In some regions of Ukraine, it is, but in a sincere relationship, it is nothing.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 17, 2018, 02:07:55 PM



So, assuming there was another £200 for clothing, he spent all of £700 on clothing and cosmetics, and thinks this is a huge sum of money.  In some regions of Ukraine, it is, but in a sincere relationship, it is nothing.


In a short space of time it is like a week. There was also the attitude that money flows like water, like Jorge asks Anfisa in 90 Fiance - 'where does it all end' - the answer to him is that 'it never ends'. So always another pair of shoes or a dress, etc, etc. It is continuous and ongoing. You get sucked into that and before too long I can well imagine an empty bank account and growing debt that soon becomes overwealming.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2018, 02:27:49 PM
You are thinking like a Westerner. It was up to you to say no. She would have no idea if that’s a lot. When traveling with my children, they usually spent more than that on clothing each. I can easily spend more than your total on fall jackets for each of my children. I spent more than your total on my son’s grad suit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 17, 2018, 02:58:08 PM
You are thinking like a Westerner. It was up to you to say no. She would have no idea if that’s a lot. When traveling with my children, they usually spent more than that on clothing each. I can easily spend more than your total on fall jackets for each of my children. I spent more than your total on my son’s grad suit.

My concern is a roof over my head and money to buy food & pay the bills. Spending silly money regularly on clothes is not something I would want to do to put that at risk. So you spent over £700 on a grad suit or on jackets, etc the earth why??? I'm sure you can get a perfectly good suit or set of jackets cheaper without going all silly on it. If your a millionaire then no you may not care, if not then I think you are bring careless with money you might later find you need to depend upon.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2018, 03:34:35 PM
Quality clothing that stands the test of time costs money.  Perhaps if you dressed better, you wouldn't have to count your pennies.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 17, 2018, 03:59:24 PM
Quality clothing that stands the test of time costs money.  Perhaps if you dressed better, you wouldn't have to count your pennies.

I've bought clothing cheaply that stands the test of time. Some expensive clothing is not quality but just a load of profit lumped on top. Sometimes much cheaper clothing can be better quality and last better than more expensive clothes. Besides fashion changes so no real need for it to last real long anyway.

I don't see why you can't dress well without spending a lot of money.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2018, 04:06:47 PM
I can always spot a cheap suit.  Similarly, I can always spot good quality clothing.  It's the fabric that makes the difference.  In the world I work in, a lot of men have their suits, and even their shirts, tailor made, and yes, one can notice the difference.  Women generally don't have their clothing, but again, one can tell whether or not their clothing is cheaply made.  Work clothing should always be the most expensive you can afford.  Daily clothing for running errands and such is a different matter.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 17, 2018, 04:36:00 PM
I can always spot a cheap suit.  Similarly, I can always spot good quality clothing.  It's the fabric that makes the difference.  In the world I work in, a lot of men have their suits, and even their shirts, tailor made, and yes, one can notice the difference.  Women generally don't have their clothing, but again, one can tell whether or not their clothing is cheaply made.  Work clothing should always be the most expensive you can afford.  Daily clothing for running errands and such is a different matter.

The last place I would want to get expensive clothing for is work, especially if working for an employer. No reason why someone wearing a cheap suit can't be better at their work than someone who wears an expensive suit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 17, 2018, 04:53:56 PM
He provided said information in post #117 on July 17, 2017 in this thread ...

"To be honest at a rough adding up I'm guessing the clothes came to around £400 (possibly more think some more costs appeared on my credit card since I added this up), cosmetics & sprays around £200 and her half of the food bill around £400. So around £1k all together, some may not see this as a lot but on top of flight costs, hotel cost (four star hotel) and hire car cost for the week and of course my own spending it all added up to rather a lot. "

Thanks for that-- but--I am interested in exactly ( EXACTLY) what he bought & paid for it.

Of note in the previous post of his is the inclusion of her food cost!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 17, 2018, 05:29:31 PM
we all know Trench is a cheapskate, literally every 2nd post of his is lamenting about how much money he spent. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2018, 05:31:20 PM
The last place I would want to get expensive clothing for is work, especially if working for an employer. No reason why someone wearing a cheap suit can't be better at their work than someone who wears an expensive suit.

You will never see successful professionals in cheap suits.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on May 17, 2018, 05:35:55 PM
Hey.  I've never spent over $400 for a suit in my life.  A truly successful individual drives a pickup truck.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2018, 05:39:13 PM
Depends on the industry. I’ve never seen a successful professional who doesn’t dress well. Most also polish their shoes and get manicures.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 17, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
you haven't met very many software engineers have you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 17, 2018, 06:02:13 PM
You will never see successful professionals in cheap suits.


Certain professions like legal maybe. Very few people even wear suits anymore. At least in the industries I work with.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 17, 2018, 06:10:41 PM

Certain professions like legal maybe. Very few people even wear suits anymore. At least in the industries I work with.

I have only worn a suit to go to court,funerals,weddings in the last 27 years ! 
I try and avoid all of them ! :)

The only exceptions being maybe a dozen business meetings where it  was more about showing respect for  the other participants !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2018, 06:21:21 PM
you haven't met very many software engineers have you?


My son has his first job currently as a software engineer.  He is required to wear a suit and tie to work daily, though they do have casual Fridays.



Certain professions like legal maybe. Very few people even wear suits anymore. At least in the industries I work with.


Legal, accounting, banking, brokerages (related to banking), oil and gas (office), even some high end men's clothing stores here have sales people in suits.


Where I don't see them - medical, car dealerships, oil workers, IT.  Real estate is 50/50.  Most male realtors I meet do wear suits.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 17, 2018, 06:23:37 PM
you haven't met very many software engineers have you?

Sorry, Bo ... Have to concur with Krimster, here..    ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2018, 06:31:33 PM
Every software engineer my son works with wears a suit and tie daily, other than on Fridays.  On Fridays, they are even allowed to wear jeans to the office.


Here, people were required to adhere to dress codes for years.  Then there was a gradual change, where suits and ties were no longer required.  But in the past 10 years or so, there has been a return to dress codes.  Every legal office I ever worked in had a dress code - suits and ties for male professional staff, more flexible for women, but nothing sleeveless, no open toed shoes, nothing too short, and that was for both professional and non professional staff.  The reason for the return allegedly is based on studies on productivity.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 17, 2018, 06:32:45 PM

My son has his first job currently as a software engineer.  He is required to wear a suit and tie to work daily, though they do have casual Fridays.Legal, accounting, banking, brokerages (related to banking), oil and gas (office), even some high end men's clothing stores here have sales people in suits.Where I don't see them - medical, car dealerships, oil workers, IT.  Real estate is 50/50.  Most male realtors I meet do wear suits.

That is the first I have ever heard of anyone in tech wearing a suit, very strange. Does he work in Canada? Corporate?

Legal definitely, although the attorneys I worked for in Manhattan recently did not wear suits. Banking yes, sharp dressed gay men in suits. Men's clothing stores of course, but we don't have many due to our weather.  Accounting and realtors here usually won't wear suits, too hot. My perception is probably because of the industries I work with (marketing, software, etc) and the subtropical weather here.

My brother is a limo driver in Vegas. Wears a suit with a trenchcoat. His buddies are VIP hosts, doormen, etc. - all wear suits. He used to sell insurance, wore a suit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 17, 2018, 06:37:22 PM
Dress codes vary over time. Shortly after I joined IBM in 1969, I grew a beard:

(http://www.floriani.it/Foto/FSF/28a.jpg)

This was because most of my foreign colleagues were doing it: they explained that field personnel in their home countries were prohibited facial hair ;).

But the oddest was our Japanese colleague Hideo Nakabayashi who would come to the office wearing the strangest colour assortments, say orange jacket, green shirt, pink tie, blue trousers or similar weird combinations :(.

Not in compliance to his first name :D. I He explained that that if he did not show up at his Tokyo office properly dressed in black jacket, tie and trousers with a white shirt, he would be sent back home to change!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 17, 2018, 06:46:17 PM
Every software engineer my son works with wears a suit and tie daily, other than on Fridays.  On Fridays, they are even allowed to wear jeans to the office.


Here, people were required to adhere to dress codes for years.  Then there was a gradual change, where suits and ties were no longer required.  But in the past 10 years or so, there has been a return to dress codes.  Every legal office I ever worked in had a dress code - suits and ties for male professional staff, more flexible for women, but nothing sleeveless, no open toed shoes, nothing too short, and that was for both professional and non professional staff.  The reason for the return allegedly is based on studies on productivity.

Noooooooo......... :(
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 17, 2018, 06:57:42 PM
Can't sleep, Trench ?
;)

Explains your 'code' error !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on May 17, 2018, 07:07:08 PM
I have only worn a suit to go to court,funerals,weddings in the last 27 years ! 
I try and avoid all of them ! :)


If you don't attend people's funerals, they won't attend yours.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 17, 2018, 08:12:09 PM
What many of you aren't considering is your other half. My wife dresses very well when the occasion calls for formal wear. She has 50+ pairs of shoes many for evening wear and some of the shoes are expensive, $500+ a pair. Her dresses are even more expensive. When we go out and she's dressed well I have to dress appropriately (Trench take note).

My company's dress code dictates suit and tie for most of the male staff. I've always worn a suit and tie am comfortable in a suit and tie. Even on casual Friday I usually wear a suit and tie. Our IT department on the other hand is very casual. It's a good thing they don't interact with the general public. We generally don't let them in the executive offices unless it's an emergency.  :ROFL: 

Being 6'8" usually I can't buy off the rack suits. My work suits are tailor made in NYC and cost about $1,000/each. That's a jacket and two pair of pants. A good deal in my opinion. For my dress suits they generally average at least $2,700/ea, again for a suit and 2 pair of pants.

Most I've paid for a suit was 2 years ago when I was in London and had 3 suits custom made. Each cost about $4,800 for a  suit and 2 pair of pants. They were having a sale, 25% off. 

Another reality of married life is my wife has far more input into my wardrobe than I have into hers. She's not afraid to throw my clothes out if she thinks they're looking too worn. OTOH I'd never think of doing that to her clothes.

She tends to have an opinion on my suits, dress shirts, ties, etc. My opinion on her clothes? She looks great in everything. We're still happily married. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 17, 2018, 08:22:24 PM
That is the first I have ever heard of anyone in tech wearing a suit, very strange. Does he work in Canada? Corporate?


yeah that's very strange. i got many software, programmer, IT friends.  None of them wear a suit. they don't interact with clients.  These are at big companies like Microsoft, SAP etc. 

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 17, 2018, 08:22:57 PM
If you don't attend people's funerals, they won't attend yours.

I am hoping I can avoid my own  too !! :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2018, 06:12:31 AM
What many of you aren't considering is your other half. My wife dresses very well when the occasion calls for formal wear. She has 50+ pairs of shoes many for evening wear and some of the shoes are expensive, $500+ a pair. Her dresses are even more expensive. When we go out and she's dressed well I have to dress appropriately (Trench take note).

My company's dress code dictates suit and tie for most of the male staff. I've always worn a suit and tie am comfortable in a suit and tie. Even on casual Friday I usually wear a suit and tie. Our IT department on the other hand is very casual. It's a good thing they don't interact with the general public. We generally don't let them in the executive offices unless it's an emergency.  :ROFL: 

Being 6'8" usually I can't buy off the rack suits. My work suits are tailor made in NYC and cost about $1,000/each. That's a jacket and two pair of pants. A good deal in my opinion. For my dress suits they generally average at least $2,700/ea, again for a suit and 2 pair of pants.

Most I've paid for a suit was 2 years ago when I was in London and had 3 suits custom made. Each cost about $4,800 for a  suit and 2 pair of pants. They were having a sale, 25% off. 

Another reality of married life is my wife has far more input into my wardrobe than I have into hers. She's not afraid to throw my clothes out if she thinks they're looking too worn. OTOH I'd never think of doing that to her clothes.

She tends to have an opinion on my suits, dress shirts, ties, etc. My opinion on her clothes? She looks great in everything. We're still happily married.

That's a lot of money Dave to spend on a suit, probably about a quarter of my annual salary, lol, you must earn a lot of money, do you find buying expensive suits does anything for you?

I enjoy nothing better than thrashing the hell out of the competition in my cheaper than cheap, cut price supermarket suit ;D

I always think if a woman has a nice figure/attractive an expensive dress is not needed, just one that shows her figure of the best :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 18, 2018, 07:26:03 AM
boy,
you Canadian and NYC folks seem to share a neurotic obsession over clothes

so glad for my 25 yrs in California
my last gig before working for myself was with an engineering consulting co based in Monterrey, CA,

our July 4 company parties were spent in a giant “clothing optional" outdoor heated pool in Big Sur, where you could watch whales and sailboats glide by...
all but a few people were nude...
interesting experience seeing everyone you work with sans clothing
and vice-versa

I liked it!
much better experience than when I was clerking at my dad's firm
and had to "walk the walk"
after I was in the military
I never wanted to wear another uniform
and that's all a suit really is
I don't want to be "somebody's guy"
I earned the right to dress the way I god damned want

now get the hell off my lawn!

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 18, 2018, 07:33:22 AM
That's a lot of money Dave to spend on a suit, probably about a quarter of my annual salary, lol, you must earn a lot of money, do you find buying expensive suits does anything for you?

From this statement your annual salary is £($4800*4)/1.34) = £14,328 which is well below the UK minimum income requirement of  £18,600 for a spouse visa! No wonder you whinge about spending money on women, as you are underfunded for this venture.

JayH is right in pressing you for details of the purchases for your ex-Ukrainian 'girlfriend'. My wife tells me that an expensive dress would cost 4,000UAH (about £113). So did you buy her 4 dresses?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 18, 2018, 07:43:29 AM
I earned the right to dress the way I god damned want

now get the hell off my lawn!

 :applause:

I admit the story of 'clothing optional' is amazing. But I would caution sometimes fantasy is better than reality.

A while back I was often in Paris, I tend to wear sport jackets and English ties. Since it is my money I can sort of set the rules. I noticed many of the clerks and juniors were dressed in suits and rather conservative clothing.

During lunch with the lawyer friend who worked in the art industry and handled matters for us he explained that the directors and owners always wore casual clothing. There was ONE place to eat, it was divided in a fashion only the French can do. At the time we always were seated in the back with the seniors and they often spoke freely with competitors.

Today my son works in IT and is second IT person in a firm that is involved in travel planning. About 300 employees. Mostly vacation and tourist things in NYC, but the company is owned by a German concern. He is general code writer and fix it sort of person. No one wears anything like a tie. He goes to work in an Oxford shirt and khaki's on his bike.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on May 18, 2018, 08:00:13 AM
From this statement your annual salary is £($4800*4)/1.34) = £14,328 which is well below the UK minimum income requirement of  £18,600 for a spouse visa! No wonder you whinge about spending money on women, as you are underfunded for this venture.

JayH is right in pressing you for details of the purchases for your ex-Ukrainian 'girlfriend'. My wife tells me that an expensive dress would cost 4,000UAH (about £113). So did you buy her 4 dresses?

Explains a lot, and makes you wonder why he haven't revealed this fact earlier, totally underfunded for any adventure..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2018, 08:58:10 AM
From this statement your annual salary is £($4800*4)/1.34) = £14,328 which is well below the UK minimum income requirement of  £18,600 for a spouse visa! No wonder you whinge about spending money on women, as you are underfunded for this venture.

JayH is right in pressing you for details of the purchases for your ex-Ukrainian 'girlfriend'. My wife tells me that an expensive dress would cost 4,000UAH (about £113). So did you buy her 4 dresses?

Well they also take into account savings and income from other sources (other than salary) in addition to your salary for the visa. So a guy like me that has a salary less than the £18,600 (before tax) can still do it if he has decent savings and/or income to supplement his salary over the £18,600. Owning my own home might also be taken into account as mean overheads are less.

I could increase my hours to over the current 30 hours a week and this would be no issue for me and that would take me over the £18,600. So that would be the sure way to avoid knock back from Border Control over the issue on that point at least. However, like said before I currently do small building projects for the rest of the time so this pays better though is classed as a capital gain so separate in theory from salary.

My concern is not just about expenditure off money on clothing for her but on the terms of our relationship. The buying of stuff for her can make someone wonder if she is just with you for that purpose.

When in Cyprus I bought her several items of clothing, I would have to check but probably amounting to 4 dresses. They varied a little in price but I remember one was around the £80 range or so. Apparently their was a Sale on in most shops at the time though I wondered if they always had one on over there as the economy is still recovering from the crash  from a decade ago there. Why these shops seam to charge more for womens clothes than their mens range I don't know, like hairdressers I guess which seem to do the same. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 18, 2018, 10:33:16 AM
That's a lot of money Dave to spend on a suit, probably about a quarter of my annual salary, lol, you must earn a lot of money, do you find buying expensive suits does anything for you?

Yes, I do enjoy buying expensive suits and other things. I've worn a suit for my entire working career and feel comfortable in it. I like to look good. My ties, shirts and shoes are just as expensive. Socks only cost about $20/each. Size 18 feet are expensive. :D

I worked hard to earn my lifestyle when I was younger and now. I earned a scholarship to university and yet worked all throughout university to pay for a car and future investments. Bought a house before I finished law school thanks to that work ethic. Prior to moving to Russia I owned shares in the company I worked at, as I do in my current company. When the company I worked for was bought the new owners had to pay me a significant amount of money, a very golden handshake. That enabled me to live worry free in Russia for years. Although I worked hard in Russia.

Even while I was in Russia working as an English teacher I worked other jobs. Did some legal work for Americans in Russia. Made several trips home for legal work. All this extra work paid far more than teaching English as did the next job I got in Moscow.


I enjoy nothing better than thrashing the hell out of the competition in my cheaper than cheap, cut price supermarket suit ;D

I always think if a woman has a nice figure/attractive an expensive dress is not needed, just one that shows her figure of the best :)

Trenchcoat, several of the my wife's dresses cost more than my suits. Add in thousands of dollars more for her jewelry. I have a $7,500 Rolex bought about 25 years ago. It's appreciated in value.

Trenchcoat you may think that women don't need expensive things however my wife is employed and earns a very good living. She could support herself and our kids easily without my help. Your idea that you should be your family's sole financial support and your future wife should stay at home and not work is crazy. You seem to have no idea how a modern relationship works.

Trenchcoat I also drive a very expensive car, a BMW. I've owned a Mercedes in the past but do prefer the BMW. My wife owns the family Mercedes. She picked out her car she paid for her car with money she earned. She makes that type of money. Trench this is the type of career she has made for herself.

We own five homes in the greater NYC area and 2 homes in Florida. When we're not vacationing there they're rented out. The NYC houses are also rented out.

Bought the places in Fl during the market collapse and to tell you the truth we probably should have bought 3 or 4 more. We could have afforded it. Those investments have appreciated significantly. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 18, 2018, 10:49:49 AM
Well they also take into account savings and income from other sources (other than salary) in addition to your salary for the visa. So a guy like me that has a salary less than the £18,600 (before tax) can still do it if he has decent savings and/or income to supplement his salary over the £18,600. Owning my own home might also be taken into account as mean overheads are less.

I could increase my hours to over the current 30 hours a week and this would be no issue for me and that would take me over the £18,600. So that would be the sure way to avoid knock back from Border Control over the issue on that point at least. However, like said before I currently do small building projects for the rest of the time so this pays better though is classed as a capital gain so separate in theory from salary.

My concern is not just about expenditure off money on clothing for her but on the terms of our relationship. The buying of stuff for her can make someone wonder if she is just with you for that purpose.

There are strict rules to be followed. Read the following documents to understand the exact requirements ...

http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/
system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270484/VAF4A-Appendix2.pdf
http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/
uploads/attachment_data/file/636618/Appendix_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement_Final.pdf

Only savings over £16,000 can be used for a spouse visa, and your employment earnings are assessed over 6 months (sometimes 12 months). A lot of people fail to get a spouse visa because they failed to read these documents. UKVI probably have targets to fail a certain number of applications due to government policy. My income was in excess of £18,600 for the last 12 months, and so VAF4A was not a problem for me.

In my view, buying her 4 dresses was totally excessive. My wife loves shopping but she knows  that she is unlikely to get more than one new dress at a time. BTW  I only bought her clothing presents after we were married. She was dating me as a future partner, not as sometime with a western wallet.

Just trying to help you.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2018, 12:25:36 PM
There are strict rules to be followed. Read the following documents to understand the exact requirements ...

http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270484/VAF4A-Appendix2.pdf
http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/636618/Appendix_FM_1_7_Financial_Requirement_Final.pdf

Only savings over £16,000 can be used for a spouse visa, and your employment earnings are assessed over 6 months (sometimes 12 months). A lot of people fail to get a spouse visa because they failed to read these documents. UKVI probably have targets to fail a certain number of applications due to government policy. My income was in excess of £18,600 for the last 12 months, and so VAF4A was not a problem for me.

In my view, buying her 4 dresses was totally excessive. My wife loves shopping but she knows  that she is unlikely to get more than one new dress at a time. BTW  I only bought her clothing presents after we were married. She was dating me as a future partner, not as sometime with a western wallet.

Just trying to help you.

Thanks with the info Blighty. Yep was aware it's just 6 months salary so pretty doable for me, I can just increase my hours after I find the right girl for six months and decrease again after so no problem with that. Thanks for the link with all the ins & outs though as I've not read all the nitty gritty yet just the main points.

I'm still keeping myself pretty flexible as to whether I live there for some time or she comes here as I know some women don't so much wish to leave their hometown. I'm working on gaining income independent of employer so that should help in such a circumstance.

Your right the girl was not what I had hoped in terms of values. We had sex together and she seems to have wanted a serious relationship but I think she had certain ideas about International dating with a foriegn guy and what it would bring her. As mentioned on here before a lot of FSW seem to think foreign guys are real rich and can afford whatever constantly. Still its all experience and I am hopefull it will stand me in good stead this time around :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 18, 2018, 12:28:30 PM
Trench, it appears you make considerably less than the "average" UK male, and those are "average" salaries. That explains, partly, why you are not attractive to UK females.  You are in your prime earning years.

I don't think your income level, unless you are making double in capital gains, will be sufficient to support an FSUW.  If a UW wanted to live in poverty, she'd stay in Ukraine,  UM offer far more advantages, in similar circumstances, than do you.  One of the "advantages" of WM is you are no longer a hamster on a wheel, living paycheque to paycheque and worrying about every cent spent.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2018, 01:37:21 PM
Trench, it appears you make considerably less than the "average" UK male, and those are "average" salaries. That explains, partly, why you are not attractive to UK females.  You are in your prime earning years.

I don't think your income level, unless you are making double in capital gains, will be sufficient to support an FSUW.  If a UW wanted to live in poverty, she'd stay in Ukraine,  UM offer far more advantages, in similar circumstances, than do you.  One of the "advantages" of WM is you are no longer a hamster on a wheel, living paycheque to paycheque and worrying about every cent spent.

I can earn at least double my wage in capital gains that's why I do it. A lot of this argument has been gone over here before but to restate, UK females are hacking the cr*p out of UK males. They are competing directly with men and it results in a race to the bottom of for almost all to the wage packet. Add to that UK men and women are now swamped with a huge influx of East European workers to compete with and you'll find as a result few UK employers need pay 'good' or even average wages.

Yes you are probably right Boethius, it probably is one of the things that puts UK females of me but I am not alone in that a lot of other UK guys are in the same boat as me. A lot of UK females want to compete with men but want a guy that has the whole set up already, house, good job etc. Some though will get jealous of guys that have the whole set up ad they are competing with them for it. Hence why many UK guys are wary of UK females as you never know if theit intentions are to deprive you of what you have through a sham marriage. It a ludicrous situation, girls go around unable to find the guys they want because they are competing against them for it. My Sister found such when she broke up with her first husband after nine years of marriage in her early-mid thirties - there was a dearth of blokes around that had much financial clout in them at all.

I don't exactly have to live from pay check to pay check but I could not be without a salaried job at the moment or I would not be sale to achieve the independent means I an presently seeking. My plan is that in about a year's time I will be in a lot better place financially. I think most of the UK working population live as a hamster on a wheel, I am looking to get off that wheel which is quite a feat. I own my own property outright so I will BS able to support a FSW so long as she is reasonable in her spending.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 18, 2018, 02:56:14 PM

I'm still keeping myself pretty flexible as to whether I live there for some time or she comes here as I know some women don't so much wish to leave their hometown. I'm working on gaining income independent of employer so that should help in such a circumstance.


Wouldn't an Essex girl be a better choice for you?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 18, 2018, 03:18:01 PM
I can see why Trench is insisting that his future wife not work. He's worried that if he married a FSUW she might end up making more than him a few years after she arrives in the UK.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 18, 2018, 04:33:36 PM
i think they fail for the same reason everyone fails
it's like chess
some stumble
some are grand masters
play within your means and ability

From J R Capablanca

People who want to improve should take their defeats as lessons, and endeavor to learn what to avoid in the future. You must also have the courage of your convictions. If you think your move is good, make it.

&

A good player is always lucky.


For what it is worth Capablanca was married to a Russian woman.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2018, 05:00:40 PM
I can see why Trench is insisting that his future wife not work. He's worried that if he married a FSUW she might end up making more than him a few years after she arrives in the UK.

She probably would.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2018, 05:14:49 PM
Just an idea I've just had I'lld like to throw out to you guys. What about putting the suggestion to any future girl about living a year or two in UK then a year or two in Ukraine (or whatever country she is from). Providing of course it's a decent enough area in Ukraine. That way both sides don't have the feeling of being away from family or stuck on another country for too long. Any children will grow up knowing both languages and cultures well. After a few years of doing this one of the country's could be decided upon for a more extended stay. What are your thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 18, 2018, 05:30:14 PM
I read that living in a third country is actually the best option. That way you are both challenged together.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 18, 2018, 05:36:42 PM
I read that living in a third country is actually the best option. That way you are both challenged together.

I've heard lots of Brits like moving to Australia because the weather's so much better. Maybe Perth or the Gold Coast of Queensland?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 18, 2018, 05:53:52 PM
I've heard lots of Brits like moving to Australia because the weather's so much better. Maybe Perth or the Gold Coast of Queensland?


Up to Trench, but experts suggest a a place where both parties are challenged culturally. Somewhere where they both need to learn a new language is suggested. But that is not always possible with employment of course.


In the end it does not matter if you find the right person. She will follow you anywhere.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 18, 2018, 05:55:48 PM
I read that living in a third country is actually the best option. That way you are both challenged together.

I put that idea to the last girl I was with but she eventually became dismissive on the basis that I already had a place I owned in the UK so it wold be easier for her to come to me and for me to stay in the UK. I think the idea of a third country can be a good idea as you state though I think from experience of the last girl the may think something dodgy is going on and it can heighten distrust in her perhaps.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 18, 2018, 06:10:26 PM
I put that idea to the last girl I was with but she eventually became dismissive on the basis that I already had a place I owned in the UK so it wold be easier for her to come to me and for me to stay in the UK. I think the idea of a third country can be a good idea as you state though I think from experience of the last girl the may think something dodgy is going on and it can heighten distrust in her perhaps.

It's a very adventurous and romantic idea if you can find a woman open to it. Many women want security though, so can be a difficult suggestion. And some may expect to stay in Four Seasons type accommodations versus a $400 house in Thailand or Latin America, so you need to be very clear from the onset :)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 18, 2018, 06:11:35 PM
dude worry about finding a girl first before you conjure up all these "grand" ideas.  I doubt you could survive a few months in a foreign country where you don't speak the language.  you better learn how to say "where's the loo" in Russian.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 18, 2018, 06:31:31 PM
Up to Trench, but experts suggest a a place where both parties are challenged culturally.

I suspect Trench has enough challenges. Lets not add to his burden.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 18, 2018, 06:32:01 PM
It makes no sense to me that a third country in which neither party has any roots would provide more security/stability to a marriage.  Not all careers are easily transferable, adapting to one culture is difficult enough, and moving, even within one's own city, is one of the top three most stressful things for individuals.  Add children to that mix, and I can't see it being a net plus to a relationship.

Moving back and forth between countries is a stupid idea, unless the couple is retired.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 18, 2018, 06:37:57 PM
It makes no sense to me that a third country in which neither party has any roots would provide more security/stability to a marriage.  Not all careers are easily transferable, adapting to one culture is difficult enough, and moving, even within one's own city, is one of the top three most stressful things for individuals.  Add children to that mix, and I can't see it being a net plus to a relationship.

Moving back and forth between countries is a stupid idea, unless the couple is retired.

It's pretty common for people to move around or live overseas with the internet nowadays.

Agreed that kids ads a level of difficulty, but my parents did it with 9 kids in tow when I was a child. It was challenging but very fulfilling. And things are much easier these days.

I will try to find the study on the third country. It may have even been a book, I don't recall.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 18, 2018, 06:41:53 PM
I can earn at least double my wage in capital gains that's why I do it. A lot of this argument has been gone over here before but to restate, UK females are hacking the cr*p out of UK males. They are competing directly with men and it results in a race to the bottom of for almost all to the wage packet. Add to that UK men and women are now swamped with a huge influx of East European workers to compete with and you'll find as a result few UK employers need pay 'good' or even average wages.

Yes you are probably right Boethius, it probably is one of the things that puts UK females of me but I am not alone in that a lot of other UK guys are in the same boat as me. A lot of UK females want to compete with men but want a guy that has the whole set up already, house, good job etc. Some though will get jealous of guys that have the whole set up ad they are competing with them for it. Hence why many UK guys are wary of UK females as you never know if theit intentions are to deprive you of what you have through a sham marriage. It a ludicrous situation, girls go around unable to find the guys they want because they are competing against them for it. My Sister found such when she broke up with her first husband after nine years of marriage in her early-mid thirties - there was a dearth of blokes around that had much financial clout in them at all.

I don't exactly have to live from pay check to pay check but I could not be without a salaried job at the moment or I would not be sale to achieve the independent means I an presently seeking. My plan is that in about a year's time I will be in a lot better place financially. I think most of the UK working population live as a hamster on a wheel, I am looking to get off that wheel which is quite a feat. I own my own property outright so I will BS able to support a FSW so long as she is reasonable in her spending.


This is just an excuse on your part.  The overwhelming majority of UK women marry, and have children with, British men. 


The point of not having assets by your late thirties/early forties suggests someone irresponsible.  That is why it would be viewed suspiciously by women.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 18, 2018, 06:45:08 PM
It's pretty common for people to move around or live overseas with the internet nowadays.

Agreed that kids ads a level of difficulty, but my parents did it with 9 kids in tow when I was a child. It was challenging but very fulfilling. And things are much easier these days.

I will try to find the study on the third country. It may have even been a book, I don't recall.


Depends on the occupation, and the host country. Moving to Australia, for example, is not particularly easy.  Nor to the UK, nor France, nor Germany, nor Canada, nor even the US, unless you can prove you will employ Americans.


The only people I know who move overseas are businessmen (own businesses or in big corporations), or those teaching English, the latter of which typically is not enough to sustain a lifelong lifestyle for a family.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 18, 2018, 06:58:02 PM
Depends on the occupation, and the host country. Moving to Australia, for example, is not particularly easy.  Nor to the UK, nor France, nor Germany, nor Canada, nor even the US, unless you can prove you will employ Americans.

The only people I know who move overseas are businessmen (own businesses or in big corporations), or those teaching English, the latter of which typically is not enough to sustain a lifelong lifestyle for a family.


There are exceptions and yes, some countries are easier than others but anyone with half a brain can move almost anywhere on the planet and survive. It may not be your ideal job but you can work in restaurants, guide tours, work online, bartend, work construction, teach yoga, realtor, wash boats, etc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 18, 2018, 07:20:14 PM
Why, if you’re educated and have a good job where you live, would you want to move somewhere else to work at menial labour at probably a quarter or less than you could earn in your own country?

Have you noticed how the overwhelming majority of FSUW who divorce their WM husbands, don’t return to the FSU?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on May 18, 2018, 07:36:48 PM
Just an idea I've just had I'lld like to throw out to you guys. What about putting the suggestion to any future girl about living a year or two in UK then a year or two in Ukraine (or whatever country she is from). Providing of course it's a decent enough area in Ukraine. That way both sides don't have the feeling of being away from family or stuck on another country for too long. Any children will grow up knowing both languages and cultures well. After a few years of doing this one of the country's could be decided upon for a more extended stay. What are your thoughts on this?

I wouldn't do it. These type of ideas won't help you catch a woman. If you're a winner, you will always have plenty of female attention. If you're a loser, you will have a lot of breakups, be lonely for years, decades, or maybe the rest of your life. Winning is a lot more fun than losing. Figure out how to be a winner. Before changing where you want to live, change yourself....unless you feel you're already winning in life.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 18, 2018, 08:07:57 PM
Why, if you’re educated and have a good job where you live, would you want to move somewhere else to work at menial labour at probably a quarter or less than you could earn in your own country?

Have you noticed how the overwhelming majority of FSUW who divorce their WM husbands, don’t return to the FSU?


Not saying I would do it at my age and skillset, but for a younger couple or a couple who wants to travel why not? Not everyone wants to wear a suit to work every day. And from the numbers being tossed around in here they would be better off doing menial labor in a tropical location tbh.


Many FSUW that divorce (and we know a bunch recently - many from Russian husbands) do stay here, but we also know quite a few that have returned back to Ukraine actually. I have discussed those cases int he past. Life was better in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 18, 2018, 10:40:10 PM
This thread seems to miss a staggering fact.
The majority of the world makes far far far less than TC,
Yet they are more than likely married and have families/ children.
Reading here youd think it impossible lol and that only captains of industry have a slim chance at true* lasting  relationships.How odd that seems given the reality of the world.


If marriage/companionship is founded on a transaction of a standard of living,then it's just thst,a transaction. Yes it was common in the past and likely still today  a role in  marriages  at least in part in such, but how big of part is the crux isnt it?

It certainly doesnt mean individuals want to marry and live a life of poverty,
but to think he *must* offer  a standard of living above the average UK ,that he seems capable of is unsettling.
What he can offer is security,a better future opptunity for their children ,himself as a good husband and father.
If that isn't enough (and I've said all along those are the traits he needs to concentrate on)
then he hasn't found the right person for him.
And yes, the right UK woman would be just fine with that well. The a enrage UK women meets and marrys the average UK guy daily, and he had no more or less assets than TC.
There are UK women interested in men with the same or less assets and salary than TC.
They marry them all the time,they have families.
Money is not the real underlying issue.
To imply otherwise seems folly,for TC to think otherwise is equal folly.




Quote from: DaveNY
Trenchcoat you may think that women don't need expensive things however my wife is employed and earns a very good living. She could support herself and our kids easily without my help. Your idea that you should be your family's sole financial support and your future wife should stay at home and not work is crazy. You seem to have no idea how a modern relationship works.



While I agree TC seems to have poor underlying reasons for holding those views,
most of the long term cross cultural couples we know, with children, are that exact family dynamic.
By choice.(choice of both spouses)
The man is the families sole financial.support,  the wife is the homemaker with the  children,a role that frankly should not be underrated, nor looked at as *less than* the most important of careers.

Yes most of them, are like my wife and can have gainful employment fairly easily,but they do not need to and value the role they have in the family .
While my old fashioned view  that it's the most important role maybe outdated,
I doubt the average fsu women would be put out by this family dynamic.
They can always work  at any point if they so choose.
I agree TCs insistence of them  working if they want *extras* ,yet not wanting them to work,and why he feels that way ,would put them off.

Perhaps my solidly blue collar background has me looking at this a bit differently,
But at no point in my life ,regardless good or not good income,did women's interest really vary drastically.
Granted they were from the same economic social level in general.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on May 18, 2018, 11:10:22 PM
Maybe if your next attempt fails you should look elsewhere.  One of the guys I work with is getting married to woman from the Philippines. She's a wonderful girl who doesn't exhibit any of the red flags you have problems with.
I also have a face book friend from there, who is looking for a foreign husband. We chat regularly ( as friends ). She's 32, very intelligent, brilliant English skills, attractive and a great conversationalist. She has a government office job and a successful online clothing shop.

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 19, 2018, 12:06:18 AM


While I agree TC seems to have poor underlying reasons for holding those views,
most of the long term cross cultural couples we know, with children, are that exact family dynamic.
By choice.(choice of both spouses)
The man is the families sole financial.support,  the wife is the homemaker with the  children,a role that frankly should not be underrated, nor looked at as *less than* the most important of careers.

Yes most of them, are like my wife and can have gainful employment fairly easily,but they do not need to and value the role they have in the family .
While my old fashioned view  that it's the most important role maybe outdated,
I doubt the average fsu women would be put out by this family dynamic.
They can always work  at any point if they so choose.
I agree TCs insistence of them  working if they want *extras* ,yet not wanting them to work,and why he feels that way ,would put them off.

Perhaps my solidly blue collar background has me looking at this a bit differently,
But at no point in my life ,regardless good or not good income,did women's interest really vary drastically.
Granted they were from the same economic social level in general.

Jumper I agree with your comments up to a point. My point to TC is that he admits he doesn't earn a great deal and if he also has to support a wife who doesn't work what happens to her and their future kids later in life if he dies or is unable to work. She's left with no public or private pension because she didn't work.

Even more importantly she has a very limited skill set to earn a living because she didn't get an education in the UK. Just working part time as a cashier at Tesco when she's in her 50s isn't going to bring in much. Not enough to survive, especially if they have kids and he's hurt.

Any new immigrant to a country needs skills, an education, for that country. My wife did a Msc in NY because we knew her Bsc from Russia wouldn't give an employer any confidence to hire her. If TC marries a FSUW that woman needs some type of UK education and job experience. This will make her future far more secure than coming to the UK and never getting a local education and/or local work experience.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 19, 2018, 12:24:48 AM
Jumper, throughout TC's posts is a paranoia about being used as a mule, a casual misogyny, excuses about the faults of UK women, and a list of traits his wife needs - no desire for education (as he doesn't wish to fund it), must be willing to work in a menial job, must be willing to dress sexy to give him an instant erection, must be willing to cook and clean, must bear children shortly after marriage so that she is "tied" to him while working in a dead end job which will fund her clothing budget.  So, other than the potential lack of alcohol abuse an FSUM offers, what, exactly, is the big advantage to an FSUW in marrying TC?  At least with an FSUM, even if she is poor, she is in her own country, surrounded by family, living in a culture she understands and where she will not be viewed as a foreign interloper.  If things go sour in her FSU marriage, she has her family around her.  Sorry, but most FSUW are not marrying foreigners solely out of love.  They either desire a Western lifestyle, or Western values for themselves or their children.  Were it not so, over 50% of these marriages would not fail.

I'd also ask, if a male suitor came calling on your daughter, and exhibited the traits listed in my first run on sentence, would you, as a parent, think, "Wow, this is a marriage that will stand the test of time.  I would really like to see my daughter married to a man who makes a less than average wage, expects my daughter to work, but only in something menial so he can control her, and will discourage further education."  I understand people have different expectations and desires in life, but, is this realistic?  Is it fair?

I may sound "hard" on TC, and I don't wish him ill will (nor do I for anyone), but his own mindset and the limitations of his expectations will defeat him.  If he had a far different mentality, his lack of money probably would be less of an issue.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 19, 2018, 01:48:18 AM
Well in response to the above I still earned 10 times more a year than the last girl I was with. While that would be good salary for Ukraine, here it would not be. As Jumper I think said above you can live of not a good salary quite ok. The UK tends to come with the benefit of a decent welfare state for the woman to aid this. So the NHS is free for all, dentistry can be had cheap and a wife can inherit at least a large part of her husbands State Pension, etc. So as long as the guy has some financial backing it's not too bad.

I think Boe is right in security being the big issue with probably most Ukrainian women. They are in  situation where there is little of that so if they can be reassured they are moving to a situation with the better security they no doubt crave its probably the thing to most bear in mind. I think switching between two countries has its merits but will probably falk foul of the security issue and will unsettle a FSW even if in reality there is not such a problem. I think the last girl I was with thought that anything other than living in the UK for me then I would be giving up a good job and hence security and this weighed heavily on her mind in dismissing being with me any where other than the UK. Again it was another cultural difference I didn't understand at the time since being in the UK we are more adventurous with random changes of direction in lifestyle such as can be seen on TV with series such as 'A place on the Sun' where couples & families leave behind the UK for sunnier climates elsewhere to live their life. Though some of such people are admittedly retired.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 19, 2018, 06:49:49 AM
Jumper, throughout TC's posts is a paranoia about being used as a mule, a casual misogyny, excuses about the faults of UK women, and a list of traits his wife needs - no desire for education (as he doesn't wish to fund it), must be willing to work in a menial job, must be willing to dress sexy to give him an instant erection, must be willing to cook and clean, must bear children shortly after marriage so that she is "tied" to him while working in a dead end job which will fund her clothing budget.  So, other than the potential lack of alcohol abuse an FSUM offers, what, exactly, is the big advantage to an FSUW in marrying TC?  At least with an FSUM, even if she is poor, she is in her own country, surrounded by family, living in a culture she understands and where she will not be viewed as a foreign interloper.  If things go sour in her FSU marriage, she has her family around her.  Sorry, but most FSUW are not marrying foreigners solely out of love.  They either desire a Western lifestyle, or Western values for themselves or their children.  Were it not so, over 50% of these marriages would not fail.

I'd also ask, if a male suitor came calling on your daughter, and exhibited the traits listed in my first run on sentence, would you, as a parent, think, "Wow, this is a marriage that will stand the test of time.  I would really like to see my daughter married to a man who makes a less than average wage, expects my daughter to work, but only in something menial so he can control her, and will discourage further education."  I understand people have different expectations and desires in life, but, is this realistic?  Is it fair?

I may sound "hard" on TC, and I don't wish him ill will (nor do I for anyone), but his own mindset and the limitations of his expectations will defeat him.  If he had a far different mentality, his lack of money probably would be less of an issue.

We agree, I stated his views on *why* she shouldn't work are the issue.
My point was a family dynamic where she does not work,certainly isn't a turn off in most cases, the *why* he doesn't want her to work would be.

That is what he most needs to work on most,not his finances.
I keep seeing comments that he doesn't make enough,or getting better situated in life to be more attractive to a woman.
Sure those are pluses, but far outweighed by his mentality, so much so that if he had 50 times the assets and salary he currently has , it would only further assure he would get used.
The mentality is what is killing his chances with a sincere woman, and if that isnt changed money would likely increase the problem,not solve it.
If TC can gain a different outlook ,it would increase his chances with a sincere woman far more than the financial side.
Yes that could help him as well,but the underlying issue isn't financial.
Poor folk marry daily.
I'm living proof lol

TC you are looking for answers ,
Hopefully we all are ,as
there is always room to improve.
I think you'll improve your odds over time.

Try and lose the thoughts that if  she's from dumpsk,  anywhere in the UK has to be better.Or she only made this, so a crapoy job in UK is better.
That is not putting yourself in her shoes,nor is it how you think about someone you love.
I know romantic notions seem downgraded here,but I'm telling you plainly
If you dont win her heart,then it's a mere transaction and unlikely to be lasting.

In her shoes,would you love a man that doesn't adore you? Love (not infatuation or lust) is generally a bit
conditional,no not on finances or security ,but on the other person feeling the same.
Unrequited love is pretty unlikely to lead to marriage.

You'll need to be able to fall for someone if you expect them to fall for you. You are unlikely to win their heart if they dont have yours
I've yet to see that side of you in your posts. This is what the poorest FSU man likely has over you already besides a common language and culture ,so I hope you can improve that area.




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 19, 2018, 11:12:10 AM
His attitudes are from his values.  I don't believe he can change them, or if he can, it will take years.  He can probably find someone in Ukraine currently, but with his values, that relationship will eventually fail.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 19, 2018, 11:21:55 AM
Maybe if your next attempt fails you should look elsewhere.  One of the guys I work with is getting married to woman from the Philippines. She's a wonderful girl who doesn't exhibit any of the red flags you have problems with.


From what I have read from him this seems like the best route for Trench tbh. I also know several guys that have married Filipinas and the relationship seems more in line with Trench's wants.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 19, 2018, 11:51:57 AM
His attitudes are from his values.  I don't believe he can change them, or if he can, it will take years.  He can probably find someone in Ukraine currently, but with his values, that relationship will eventually fail.

From his posts, I think TC is very English working class in his attitudes and values. He is very much a product of England, and so cannot be expected to change his approach to life. He just needs some help and guidance in his search. TC needs to think more about what he is seeking from both a partner and relationship. He reminisces about the girl from Kherson, but she was totally unsuitable for him. I know these are just my opinions, but it might help other people to be a little more tolerant towards TC.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 19, 2018, 12:18:52 PM
i think you all might be surprised at what Trench might achieve...

I’ll tell y’all a little story...
In Sevastopol they have a little poor imitation of a poor imitation of an American strip mall in some failing rust belt town

it was on my way to my daughter’s school...
one day, when I was walking there, I saw this short, weird, ugly looking little man propositioning every woman who was walking past him
I was a few minutes early, so I could afford to spend some time there
watching what I thought would be the upcoming drama of this guy getting knocked out!
every time he approached a woman she would get a disgusted look on her face and turn away
I was just waiting for him to be KO’d when this beautiful elegant 40+ yr old blond begins
to walk towards him
he approaches her, she stops in front of him and stares directly at him
he talks to her for about 60 seconds
very graphic sexual talk
I'm waiting for the fists to start flying...
instead, she turns and the two of them walk away together!

I was in shock...

it’s opposite land in Ukraine
Trench can do it
90% of success there is just showing up...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 19, 2018, 12:59:22 PM
You are forgetting that single women over 35 in Ukraine are often sex deprived.  I cannot begin to tell you how often my husband was hit on by women seeking a man for a night, or a few hours.  Someone once posted a video here of a RM, in his fifties, a plumber, bragging about how many women were seeking him for a night.  He was overweight, dirty, looked more like Gerard Depardieu with a mustache than Jon Hamm.  Yet he was wined and dined by women as much as he chose!


As for Trench, it is not finding a woman that will be an issue.  It will be keeping her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 19, 2018, 01:10:19 PM
i think you all might be surprised at what Trench might achieve...

I’ll tell y’all a little story...
In Sevastopol they have a little poor imitation of a poor imitation of an American strip mall in some failing rust belt town

it was on my way to my daughter’s school...
one day, when I was walking there, I saw this short, weird, ugly looking little man propositioning every woman who was walking past him
I was a few minutes early, so I could afford to spend some time there
watching what I thought would be the upcoming drama of this guy getting knocked out!
every time he approached a woman she would get a disgusted look on her face and turn away
I was just waiting for him to be KO’d when this beautiful elegant 40+ yr old blond begins
to walk towards him
he approaches her, she stops in front of him and stares directly at him
he talks to her for about 60 seconds
very graphic sexual talk
I'm waiting for the fists to start flying...
instead, she turns and the two of them walk away together!

I was in shock...

it’s opposite land in Ukraine
Trench can do it
90% of success there is just showing up...

krimster2 what happens when the hot 25 year old (I assuming Trench wants a young FSUW) get to the UK and finds out she'll be living in a small house. Won't be allowed to upgrade her skills to a UK education and won't be allowed a real career? Her life will be limited to cooking, cleaning and taking care of Trench and kids if they have kids and there'll always be a struggle for money?

Getting a date even one that his well outside of your class is by far the easiest part of the relationship. Keeping the relationship going year after year is the far harder part. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 19, 2018, 01:22:40 PM
I had 2 young beautiful women with PHDs hit on me in Sevastopol, one got angry when I declined to go home with her, incredibly flattering at my age 50+
and a lot of young women would give me attention, but hands down the “babe magnet” were my daughters, on the way to and from school, all the young secretaries on their way to/from work would “ohhhhh” and “ahhhh” over us and give us hugs!!!!
we would get a lot of public notice and attention
that at first made me feel uncomfortable
Russians dig on the “dad and daughters” thing
I think many of them had absentee fathers...
whenever my daughters and I went for a picknick together
young Russian women would always ask to join us
and in the interest of Za mir I would be compelled to allow them
I don’t don’t know whether I should feel proud or disappointed that I never “cheated” on my wife, certainly not for lack of opportunity....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 19, 2018, 01:27:40 PM
"krimster2 what happens when the hot 25 year old (I assuming Trench wants a young FSUW) get to the UK and finds out she'll be living in a small house. "

every venture involves some risk
trying, does not guarantee success...
not trying however, does guarantee failure...

just go, and do your best....
said every poor father in parting to his son...

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 19, 2018, 01:38:26 PM
krimster2 what happens when the hot 25 year old (I assuming Trench wants a young FSUW) get to the UK and finds out she'll be living in a small house. Won't be allowed to upgrade her skills to a UK education and won't be allowed a real career? Her life will be limited to cooking, cleaning and taking care of Trench and kids if they have kids and there'll always be a struggle for money?


The only part of that I believe is an issue with an FSUW is not allowing her to grow. Whether it be skills, education, a career, etc. The rest of it does not matter.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on May 19, 2018, 02:02:52 PM
  Someone once posted a video here of a RM, in his fifties, a plumber, bragging about how many women were seeking him for a night. 


I'm tired of the stereotype construction workers are only good for their bodies and not their brains. I know a few construction workers that get their bodies used by women. Why don't those women go after nice office guys with soft hands and narrow shoulders?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on May 19, 2018, 02:08:22 PM
I'm tired of the stereotype construction workers are only good for their bodies and not their brains. I know a few construction workers that get their bodies used by women. Why don't those women go after nice office guys with soft hands and narrow shoulders?

As I understand it, the above stereotype is wrong.

Strong men make weak lovers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 19, 2018, 02:16:55 PM
As I understand it, the above stereotype is wrong.

Strong men make weak lovers.


I believe the study is that carpenters/construction workers had the most (highest frequency per week) sex. Strong, good with their hands, higher testosterone levels than desk jobs, etc.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 19, 2018, 02:20:59 PM
I'm tired of the stereotype construction workers are only good for their bodies and not their brains. I know a few construction workers that get their bodies used by women. Why don't those women go after nice office guys with soft hands and narrow shoulders?

Problem of working in construction is all the muck. Around where I live the young seem to be all about preening oneself. Even the guys have to be real nancy boys, hair regularly tried to perfection, perfumed and latest fashion to even hope of attracting the women. Construction work wear does not fit into this image - and they wonder why we have a skills shortage in construction in the UK, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 19, 2018, 02:26:14 PM
Jumper, I've noted down what you said above, it's all good stuff and I am considering it carefully. Much appreciate your input on all of this as I think you have a lot of life experience. Quite possibly I may unwittingly not always have a good take on relationships so will look at this a bit more ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 19, 2018, 06:08:42 PM
Problem of working in construction is all the muck. Around where I live the young seem to be all about preening oneself. Even the guys have to be real nancy boys, hair regularly tried to perfection, perfumed and latest fashion to even hope of attracting the women. Construction work wear does not fit into this image - and they wonder why we have a skills shortage in construction in the UK, lol.

Lol
I shave when I happen to feel like it, even when dating.i dress for work  work clothes.
Yes if headed to a nice restuarant I'll spruce up.
I am clean, but most every job I've held involves being dirty during the work day.
My hobbies and interests are mostly outside,  the earth, its wonderful.and its made of water and dirt=mud.
  I hope my daughter grows up to love it and not mind her hands dirty, or a working man's hands being dirty (at work)as a sign of respect,not disdain.My wife feels the same.

Get some Clark Kent glasses,treat woman as you yourself woukd wish to be treated. Love children.you'll do just fine.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on May 19, 2018, 07:32:09 PM

  I hope my daughter grows up to love it and not mind her hands dirty, or a working man's hands being dirty (at work)as a sign of respect,not disdain.

Don't you have a teenage son also ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 19, 2018, 08:58:54 PM
Love children.you'll do just fine.

OMG.. Haven't you noticed ...?

Trench even has BIzarre viewpoints on kids, too

@Blighty - cannot agree with your 'classification' of Trench as typical ...   He mostly brings shame on other UK posters with his 'adviSe'. / opinions. The scary thing is - he is now a 'hero member' - for posting an awful lot of drivel and responding to criticism with more bollox or a woeful sense of humour

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 20, 2018, 12:18:51 AM
@Blighty - cannot agree with your 'classification' of Trench as typical ...   He mostly brings shame on other UK posters with is 'adviSe'.. the scary thing is - he is now a 'hero member' - for posting an awful lot of drivel and responding to criticism with more bollox or a woeful sense of humour

I visualise an 'Andy Capp' character seeking his 'Flo'. I agree that he is self-opinionated and has set himself up as an expert on dating. I have met a lot of northern working class men with similar Stone Age attitudes towards women. TC fits this catagory to a tee as he expects his future wife to be chained to the kitchen sink / bed whilst wearing a pelmet-skirt.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 12:59:21 AM
I visualise an 'Andy Capp' character seeking his 'Flo'. I agree that he is self-opinionated and has set himself up as an expert on dating. I have met a lot of northern working class men with similar Stone Age attitudes towards women. TC fits this catagory to a tee as he expects his future wife to be chained to the kitchen sink / bed whilst wearing a pelmet-skirt.

Says he a mere 'member' ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 20, 2018, 01:05:04 AM
Says he a mere 'member' ;D

Quite.... 

I KNEW you'd be proud of having more posts ..

 As I said 'scary'

This is a guy who has spent more than a few hours with only ONE FSU lass -posts bollox 'adviSe'  on dating and is a 'hero'?! ;





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 01:06:24 AM
OMG.. Haven't you noticed ...?

Trench even has BIzarre viewpoints on kids, too

@Blighty - cannot agree with your 'classification' of Trench as typical ...   He mostly brings shame on other UK posters with his 'adviSe'. / opinions. The scary thing is - he is now a 'hero member' - for posting an awful lot of drivel and responding to criticism with more bollox or a woeful sense of humour

What bizarre viewpoints on kids am I supposed to have? Fellow 'hero member' :D

Besides I disagree I think my 'hero member' status is fully justified. I've brought up a lot of topics, problems & issues I think could have helped a lot of people on this search. Without me bringing them up they would have been totally a sea with what was actualky happening to them. Credit where it is due Mobers ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 20, 2018, 01:28:01 AM
What bizarre viewpoints on kids am I supposed to have? Fellow 'hero member'

You post SO much drivel - you just can't remember ... 


Besides I disagree I think my 'hero member' status is fully justified. I've brought up a lot of topics, problems & issues I think could have helped a lot of people on this search. Without me bringing them up they would have been totally a sea with what was actualky happening to them. Credit where it is due Mobers ;)

Hardly, you offered ridiculous 'adviSe' to newbies and this thread is a testament to your continued ignorance
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 20, 2018, 01:34:00 AM
Says he a mere 'member' ;D

What a stupid comment ... the truth obviously hurts you! You have set yourself up as a sort of 'Brain of Britain' who is an expert on FSU dating. Ever heard of the old saying 'Quality not Quantity'? Well, you do post a load of old cobblers which other Brits can see through.

When I started my search, I was intensely corresponding with six women before my first trip. Why not spend your time finding a future partner, rather than expressing your 'expert' views here on everything from Brexit to FSU dating?

BTW Have ever been to Ukraine? I have visited several times, and noticed in the big cities that most women prefer to wear trousers during their everyday life. Where on earth do you get this idea of them wearing short skirts for you? These are mostly seeking western men for their liberated attitudes towards women, rather than some 'Andy Capp' Numbskull.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 01:47:35 AM
What a stupid comment ... the truth obviously hurts you! You have set yourself up as a sort of 'Brain of Britain' who is an expert on FSU dating. Ever heard of the old saying 'Quality not Quantity'? Well, you do post a load of old cobblers which other Brits can see through.

When I started my search, I was intensely corresponding with six women before my first trip. Why not spend your time finding a future partner, rather than expressing your 'expert' views here on everything from Brexit to FSU dating?

BTW Have ever been to Ukraine? I have visited several times, and noticed in the big cities that most women prefer to wear trousers during their everyday life. Where on earth do you get this idea of them wearing short skirts for you? These are mostly seeking western men for their liberated attitudes towards women, rather than some 'Andy Capp' Numbskull.

Yes I have been to Ukraine three times now soon to be a fourth next month. I now prefer to meet them in person on the trip rather than waste a lot of time on waffle beforehand, all the 'and how is your cat has she recovered from her sickness' sort of rubbish. Found it to be a lot of time input only to find it being wasted on the wrong woman.

So am feeling great to be having another stab at this soon. I think I am well placed this time to make a good go at it being a bit more familiar now with the oddities that can turn up in FSU dating.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 20, 2018, 04:25:17 AM
I now prefer to meet them in person on the trip rather than waste a lot of time on waffle beforehand, all the 'and how is your cat has she recovered from her sickness' sort of rubbish. Found it to be a lot of time input only to find it being wasted on the wrong woman.


You see, Blighty - he either didn't 'get' you point - or ignored it  - about trousers ;)

Trench - you are an idiot to do 'blind' dates -  if you can't get by on SKYPE - you're not going to cope face to face, either

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 04:47:22 AM
You see, Blighty - he either didn't 'get' you point - or ignored it  - about trousers ;)

Trench - you are an idiot to do 'blind' dates -  if you can't get by on SKYPE - you're not going to cope face to face, either

I can get by on Skype I just don't want to waste a log of time on lengthy conversations (messaging as well) just to later find its all to waste because there is no chemistry there on meeting.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 20, 2018, 05:14:32 AM
I can get by on Skype I just don't want to waste a log of time on lengthy conversations (messaging as well) just to later find its all to waste because there is no chemistry there on meeting.

what makes you think the girl won't flake out on you once you are there.  you are a complete foreign stranger to them.  A few text messages back and forth before you go means nothing.  The consensus among most if not all the guys here is that you will fail big time. 

So how many girls are you actually talking to right now? you going next month right.  or you gonna do a cold approach on the streets. that'll be funny!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on May 20, 2018, 05:44:47 AM
Trench..

I'll be in Odessa 2-8 June, that's about the same time you will be in Ukraine as I understand, can't you come down there and show me how you will approach the girls, if you manage to do a cold score I promise we will take you on a double date and I'll even pick up the tab.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 20, 2018, 06:23:53 AM
Trench..

I'll be in Odessa 2-8 June, that's about the same time you will be in Ukraine as I understand, can't you come down there and show me how you will approach the girls, if you manage to do a cold score I promise we will take you on a double date and I'll even pick up the tab.  :popcorn:

now this I'd like to see! Trench speaks zero Russian so basically he needs to find a girl who knows English.  I have a feeling his interactions are gonna repel anyone he approaches!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 20, 2018, 06:59:02 AM
I can get by on Skype I just don't want to waste a log of time on lengthy conversations (messaging as well) just to later find its all to waste because there is no chemistry there on meeting.

We've been through all this BS, before..  You Skype and know the one's you want to meet - not waste time going on blind dates - like you ...

You are wasting money ( that normally gets your attention ) as well as time and the likelihood of failing is MUCH higher
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on May 20, 2018, 07:04:20 AM
There are very few guys who can walk into a social setting and walk out with a relationship with a woman.  And my thoughts are that those that do have that ability are mostly players.  What would be the result of such a relationship?  A One Week Wonder?  The chances of success of such a relationship are remote.  I've known of only two on this forum and one of those is the result of both previous relationships and a gregarious personality. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 20, 2018, 07:25:42 AM
just let him do whatever he wants. he doesn't listen to anyone here, didn't learn from his past mistakes. Don't see how this time will be any different. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on May 20, 2018, 09:00:06 AM
now this I'd like to see! Trench speaks zero Russian so basically he needs to find a girl who knows English.  I have a feeling his interactions are gonna repel anyone he approaches!

I actually didn't have a problem with this, not knowing any Russian. I "played" the charming tourist and had no problem talking ladies in to having lunch/dinner or a stroll to the nearest café or bar.

Then again I don't have the personality of a doorknob, nor did I in any way have the misogynist views that Trench have.

An almost "sure thing" was to take a stroll in one of the many parks with a children playground, just keep the eyes open for the many many many single moms who came there with their kids, then approach them in a casual way and strike up a conversation, ask them to join me for a cup of cappuccino and ask them about where to go, what to see, what restaurants to try and so on.. sure I got a lot of "njet angliskiy" but remarkably many tried to be helpful despite this, and many showed a lot of interest in further company.

Got countless dates that way, and more then my share of invites to come back home and try a homecooked meal at some point, something I both accepted and enjoyed in more ways then one. 

Thinking back, being a single foreigner like that, why did I stop it  :P :P

but the thing is, it is not hard in any way to meet a woman "on the street" - in the right setting - if you are being sincere, if you show an interest in the woman, not only how she looks, but as a woman, as a human, and the difference to do this "back home" is that the women there seems to enjoy the attention in a whole different way even from "strangers".
That is my experience, I know many say women are women, but no they are not in my eyes..

My experience here has been that Ukrainian women have this way of first accepting an approach, actually really enjoying it, showing that they are interested, accept the invitation to some more, then "turn it all off" to test how serious you are, and when you show that you are serious, and if she likes you - you will with certainty know she is in to you - in all ways possible.

I will say this, I am sure Trench will manage to get a date or two, but it will be many lonely evening at the hotel, and the dates he will manage to get is with women who see him as a walking wallet, a free meal, a "stupid foreigner" and the type of gold diggers he is so afraid of meeting.

The women in the early thirties without a child is in quite high demand - if she looks good - and she will have so much attention from men that have so much more to offer then poor Trenchy here, so they are literally out of his league. He can go on and on about "real love" and chemistry and all the bollox he want. That wont change the fact that without lining up some prospect beforehand, he wont stand a chance in hell.

On "the streets" -
Finding a beautiful woman, really easy.
Finding a serious woman, not hard, often quite easy.
Finding a woman who you click with - "chemistry", harder, very hard even.
Finding a woman - who can see herself living in an other country, to leave her homeland, to leave her family, friends, society and culture and work and and and.. - very very hard

combine all these above - good luck, I do hope you have many years to spend on this journey.

It took me 3 years, and I was very active on social media, on datingsites, skype, viber, messaging day and night, and finally with boots on the ground. I had over 20 trips to FSU in these 3 years until I met her, somewhere around 100-120 days in Ukraine (and Russia) in total.

but then again, I found the unicorn, the one of a kind, the kind of woman you all dream about but will never get close even, I got her. :) and she found me on Fdating............


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 12:15:32 PM
The women in the early thirties without a child is in quite high demand - if she looks good - and she will have so much attention from men that have so much more to offer then poor Trenchy here, so they are literally out of his league. He can go on and on about "real love" and chemistry and all the bollox he want. That wont change the fact that without lining up some prospect beforehand, he wont stand a chance in hell.

On "the streets" -
Finding a beautiful woman, really easy.
Finding a serious woman, not hard, often quite easy.
Finding a woman who you click with - "chemistry", harder, very hard even.
Finding a woman - who can see herself living in an other country, to leave her homeland, to leave her family, friends, society and culture and work and and and.. - very very hard

combine all these above - good luck, I do hope you have many years to spend on this journey.

So if when there I ask a girl I have not corresponded to before to meet me for a drink she does so and there is chemistry there she is not going to go with me. She is going to continue looking, go for some local guy because he has so much more going for him than me? She will continue looking for a local guy with chemistry or somehow better prospects in some way than me? Possible I'm sure but I would find it hard to fathom that many a girl would do this. If there is chemistry it is surely magnetic is it not?

Well living in her area is not off the cards. I cannot do it at the moment, possibly later this year but most likely next. I need to secure myself independent income to do this so I can live out there without needing to work. I would off course visit back to her on the interim if I did find the right girl out there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on May 20, 2018, 12:45:18 PM
So if when there I ask a girl I have not corresponded to before to meet me for a drink she does so and there is chemistry there she is not going to go with me. She is going to continue looking, go for some local guy because he has so much more going for him than me? She will continue looking for a local guy with chemistry or somehow better prospects in some way than me? Possible I'm sure but I would find it hard to fathom that many a girl would do this. If there is chemistry it is surely magnetic is it not?

Well living in her area is not off the cards. I cannot do it at the moment, possibly later this year but most likely next. I need to secure myself independent income to do this so I can live out there without needing to work. I would off course visit back to her on the interim if I did find the right girl out there.

I never said that, I said the chance for you to find this - and find it this way you are thinking of doing - is so small that you might as well try and get Meghan Markle to marry you. That chance feels bigger.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 20, 2018, 01:08:08 PM
So if when there I ask a girl I have not corresponded to before to meet me for a drink she does so and there is chemistry there she is not going to go with me. She is going to continue looking, go for some local guy because he has so much more going for him than me?


Of course she is going to continue looking for local men as well.  Don't delude yourself otherwise.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 20, 2018, 01:10:48 PM
So if when there I ask a girl I have not corresponded to before to meet me for a drink she does so and there is chemistry there she is not going to go with me. She is going to continue looking, go for some local guy because he has so much more going for him than me? She will continue looking for a local guy with chemistry or somehow better prospects in some way than me? Possible I'm sure but I would find it hard to fathom that many a girl would do this. If there is chemistry it is surely magnetic is it not?

Trench reading some of your posts I find it hard to believe that you've dated locally let alone elsewhere. Yes a FSUW will continue looking even if she thinks she might have some chemistry with you from a chance meeting at a local coffee shop. You're a foreigner. Someone who doesn't speak her language, doesn't understand her culture, doesn't live in her town, won't be around for long and for all she knows is a sex tourist.

Your local competition speaks her language, understands her culture, lives in her town, will be in town tomorrow, next week, next year, etc. He's only a phone call away. You're several time zones away.

Who's she going to go out with on Friday and Saturday night when you're at a pub in the UK? Do you think a hot 20 something FSUW is going to sit at home on a Friday and Saturday night thinking only of you because she meet you once at McDonads?   


Well living in her area is not off the cards. I cannot do it at the moment, possibly later this year but most likely next. I need to secure myself independent income to do this so I can live out there without needing to work. I would off course visit back to her on the interim if I did find the right girl out there.

If you earn as little as you've said in past posts how are you going to be financially secure enough next year to move to Russia or Ukraine? Are you hoping to win the EuroMillions? Hot stock tip?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 01:32:40 PM
If you earn as little as you've said in past posts how are you going to be financially secure enough next year to move to Russia or Ukraine? Are you hoping to win the EuroMillions? Hot stock tip?

Well I've got a hot stock tip but I'm not counting on that. Essentially I will rent out my house, the £400 or so clear income will be more than enough to rent a pad out there, say up to £200 with the other £200 to pay for bills food & entertainment. I'll have savings in addition so if I go over one month it will not be a big problem. Apparently the average Ukrainian monthly salary did not exceed $300 last year so I should live well comparatively speaking :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 01:39:22 PM
I never said that, I said the chance for you to find this - and find it this way you are thinking of doing - is so small that you might as well try and get Meghan Markle to marry you. That chance feels bigger.

Admittedly it is not my prefered option to do a fly in visit. I personally wanted to live out there for an extended period of time this year but it became clear that timescale wise it was unlikely. Next year looks like it will likely be far more feasible for me, but I don't wish to lose too much time this year. I think even if I don't meet the right one this year more experience out there could really help me.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 20, 2018, 01:41:06 PM
I would budget more than that man. You are not gonna be able to live like a native easily. Definitely not be able to date on that kind of income....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 01:46:42 PM

Of course she is going to continue looking for local men as well.  Don't delude yourself otherwise.

It's why I ask in other thread about if a girl has chemistry but also a goldigger. 2tallbill says do not try and fix a girl and no such a girl probably can't be fixed, at least not easily. Yet such a girl is no doubt going to have difficulty dating locally, all the local guys will either not have anywhere near the wealth to satisfy her and let's face it such a girl is unlikely to ever be satisfied or they will just not wish to spend their money.

So some girls will be able to date locally some won't is the way I see it. Some other girls nah have other issues, too modest for example so guys tire off holding out for her to put out, etc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 20, 2018, 01:48:20 PM

I would budget more than that man. You are not gonna be able to live like a native easily. Definitely not be able to date on that kind of income....

Yes.  Your "average" is for the entire country.  Wages in cities generally are higher.  You also are only taking into account official statistics.  Gray salaries are not included in those numbers.  The majority of Ukrainians are not paying for apartments, so after rent, your salary is, at best, comparable to that of an employed Ukrainian.  Finally, as a Westerner, everything you buy will be at higher rates than the locals.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 20, 2018, 01:50:12 PM
It's why I ask in other thread about if a girl has chemistry but also a goldigger. 2tallbill says do not try and fix a girl and no such a girl probably can't be fixed, at least not easily. Yet such a girl is no doubt going to have difficulty dating locally, all the local guys will either not have anywhere near the wealth to satisfy her and let's face it such a girl is unlikely to ever be satisfied or they will just not wish to spend their money.

So some girls will be able to date locally some won't is the way I see it. Some other girls nah have other issues, too modest for example so guys tire off holding out for her to put out, etc.


All women are able to date locally. 


As for golddiggers, what is she "digging" from you?  Your vast income?  Ukrainian programmers make 4 times your income, and more than your overall income.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 01:51:33 PM
I would budget more than that man. You are not gonna be able to live like a native easily. Definitely not be able to date on that kind of income....

Well it will affect least cover the essentials, I can then either live of savings and/or do a bit of English Foreign Language Tutoring. Main thing is I won't be working all the time. I think the rental income alone may give a but of a spartan lifestyle but still I will probably get by ok on it. Most Ukrainians apparently live on a lot less.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 20, 2018, 01:51:39 PM
Well I've got a hot stock tip but I'm not counting on that. Essentially I will rent out my house, the £400 or so clear income will be more than enough to rent a pad out there, say up to £200 with the other £200 to pay for bills food & entertainment. I'll have savings in addition so if I go over one month it will not be a big problem. Apparently the average Ukrainian monthly salary did not exceed $300 last year so I should live well comparatively speaking :)

Budget at a minimum for at least twice what you think it will cost you. I lived in Moscow for years. Heard horror stories from people who came over to teach English and budgeted the minimum. It always, and I mean always, costs far more than budgeted for.

If your research says you can get by on £500/month budget for £1,000/month. It is better to have extra money each month than be stuck in some foreign country with no money in your pocket. As Alex330 says you cannot live as cheaply as a local. It is not possible.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 01:54:29 PM

All women are able to date locally. 


As for golddiggers, what is she "digging" from you?  Your vast income?  Ukrainian programmers make 4 times your income, and more than your overall income.

They would have gotten with them already if they could. Anyway, it is clear by the stats that most Ukrainians have humdrum jobs that don't bring good income like IT programmers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 01:56:18 PM
Budget at a minimum for at least twice what you think it will cost you. I lived in Moscow for years. Heard horror stories from people who came over to teach English and budgeted the minimum. It always, and I mean always, costs far more than budgeted for.

If your research says you can get by on £500/month budget for £1,000/month. It is better to have extra money each month than be stuck in some foreign country with no money in your pocket. As Alex330 says you cannot live as cheaply as a local. It is not possible.

Well Moscow is kind of expensive I would probably be looking at a cheaper location, but I get your point, many thanks Dave ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 20, 2018, 01:59:54 PM
Yet such a girl is no doubt going to have difficulty dating locally, all the local guys will either not have anywhere near the wealth to satisfy her and let's face it such a girl is unlikely to ever be satisfied or they will just not wish to spend their money.

So some girls will be able to date locally some won't is the way I see it. Some other girls nah have other issues, too modest for example so guys tire off holding out for her to put out, etc.


Ok, but in that case why would she choose to date you with your 200 pounds per month for food and entertainment? You would need to have something besides $$$ or some strong chemistry. You could probably pull an average girl over there if you planned on 1k a month I think. As long as you have no major malfunctions...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 20, 2018, 02:00:36 PM
Most Ukrainians apparently live on a lot less.

Yes, but they have relatives in villages to give them food.  They have relatives in the West to send them money.  They don't pay for apartments.  They can produce so that they don't have to pay for it at inflated winter prices. 

And, no, they do not live on a lot less.  In villages, yes they do, but food  and shelter isn't a problem there.  What is often an issue is paying for electricity and gas in rural regions.


In cities, particularly major cities, the average wage you have stated is underestimated.

They would have gotten with them already if they could. Anyway, it is clear by the stats that most Ukrainians have humdrum jobs that don't bring good income like IT programmers.


My point was about alleged "gold diggers".  You don't have any gold to dig.

Still, most Ukrainians, overall, are earning more than you believe. 

Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa - all these cities have average wages higher than you state, and by what you intend to live on, you would actually be worse off than are they, as they mostly don't pay for apartments.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 20, 2018, 02:03:46 PM
Everything Boe and Dave says is correct man. You are overlooking all that...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 20, 2018, 08:51:04 PM
I actually didn't have a problem with this, not knowing any Russian. I "played" the charming tourist and had no problem talking ladies in to having lunch/dinner or a stroll to the nearest café or bar.

Then again I don't have the personality of a doorknob, nor did I in any way have the misogynist views that Trench have.



You nailed it, if you have a friendly, personable attitude most people will be open towards you.  First time I was in Russia I didn't know much Russian either.  Randomly talked to locals and once they find out you are a decent person they will be receptive.  Had people treat me to dinner and drinks.

Trench couldn't amuse a turtle much less a pretty girl. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 20, 2018, 09:54:20 PM

Ok, but in that case why would she choose to date you with your 200 pounds per month for food and entertainment? You would need to have something besides $$$ or some strong chemistry. You could probably pull an average girl over there if you planned on 1k a month I think. As long as you have no major malfunctions...

I get in 1k a month here in salary before any capital gains from my building projects are taken into account. Seems a lot of money for over there and while I would spend out a bit on dating girl I would have thought to suggest such a large sum would be to suggest I would be spending out a lot on her. I've been down that path already with the last girl and two weeks of that was more than enough for me (the second week moreso). While I know a girl will want a more comfortable lifestyle I'm not looking to buy a girl I want one that is onto me. For sure if it got to marriage then would spend more on her afterwards most likely but 1k a month still looks a little on the high side.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 20, 2018, 10:37:40 PM
I get in 1k a month here in salary before any capital gains from my building projects are taken into account.

"capital gains"
You keep on keeping on with nonsense -- you have zero idea --that is zero idea of what it would cost to stay in Ukraine -- which BTW- only allows  a limited amount of time in any 6 month period -- so you cannot "live" there.

"capital gains"
You have added that to your "income" numerous times  -- a capital gain is NOT income -- and it is only a capital gain if you sell and realise  any gain.
You have in fact gained nothing -- as what you refer to as a capital gain is a general rise in the value of a property. Fact is that if you want to continue living at the same standard- you are faced with buying other property that have also increased-- so -- your gain is effectively zero/
It does make it possible to realise some value -- by allowing you to borrow more against it ( presuming you were using the money to invest or in an income producing business) but -- with your level of general incompetence any lending institution would need to be having an off day !

As long as your arse points to the ground and you keep thinking you are in any way superior to anyone in Ukraine and think you can save some poor girl with your "superior" income you will continue with only your inane stupidity displayed on the forum to show for your time spent.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: alex330 on May 20, 2018, 10:39:07 PM
It's not that much money Trench (for clarity I am talking USD)

My brother receives 1k in military benefits and barely lives on it in Costa Rica. And he has free rent and no car.

How much do you think you can rent for? $400 lets say? Food $200 easy. One date a week @ $50 only leaves you with $200 for transportation, misc expenses, internet, and so on....


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 20, 2018, 10:45:01 PM
"capital gains"
You keep on keeping on with nonsense -- you have zero idea --that is zero idea of what it would cost to stay in Ukraine -- which BTW- only allows  a limited amount of time in any 6 month period -- so you cannot "live" there.


Exactly....he keeps talking about capital gains as if it's some kind of residual income.  It's only when you sell stocks or real estate for a profit do you have capital gains.

I don't know what kind of "building project" he keeps mentioning.  not like he's actually a developer.  Here we are fortunate if you sell your primary residence it is all tax free. 

Trench doesn't have much financial wisdom.  Does he really think any woman who figures out his approach to money will stick around with him for long?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 20, 2018, 11:11:00 PM
Capital is taxed as income, it is just taxed at  lower rates, which is defined as the capital gain rate.  In Canada, that rate is half the rate of ordinary income because only half the gain is taxed.  However, the portion of the gain that is taxed is taxed at the same rate as income.  In Canada, capital gains are subject to alternative minimum tax if other income is too low.  Capital gains are paid  by individuals, corporations, partnerships, and trusts in Canada (I may be missing some entities, these are the ones I deal with routinely).  That is not so in other countries.  I believe in the UK, capital gains have a tax free allowance rate then, above that, one of two rates apply.

There are sources of capital beyond stocks and real estate, and I know that is the case in the UK as well.  However, in Canada, if one were, say, buying homes, with the intention of renovating them, then flipping them, that would not be taxed as a capital gain.  It would be taxed as income.  I don't know what the position is in the UK, but I assume it would be similar, because most of the leading cases on what constitutes income or capital referred to in Canada are from the House of Lords.

So, perhaps Trench is buying properties, upgrading them, selling them, and then claiming that as on account of capital rather than income.  If that's the case, he should probably consult with a tax lawyer or accountant to ensure he is reporting the income correctly.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 20, 2018, 11:21:00 PM
The TC reference to a capital gain is the renovation of his own residential property  and it's potential increase in value.


FWIW --1,000 GBP =1,343.69USD

I recall a chat conversation  a long time ago about cost estimates of what was needed -- back then I said approx $100 per day  was sensible allowance . In Ukraine over the last 4 years costs have risen dramatically and continue to.Maybe more like $150 at a rough guess.

Even if you halve my number -- which could be possible -- it is still a long way from $45 per day.

You can save money by going down market on apartment, catching the bus,buying food at the supermarket or markets ( not as cheap as some seem to think) etc etc  or not eating !!  I am sure all that frugality will really impress a girl !

A couple of days ago I saw a survey of FSUW about western men and what they expect of them -- and what they don't want.
On a list of 20 -- top of the list was "greediness" which referred to financial meanness and and lack of emotional giving !





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 20, 2018, 11:25:52 PM
Hmm, if that is the case and he has been reporting that income, then he has a fool for an accountant.

I assumed he is renovating other properties, which is why he is only working part time.  But even if my assumption is correct, such renovations may be on account of income rather than capital.  Certainly, in Canada, they would be fully taxable.  Anything you flip (stocks, real estate, bonds, cars, etc.) for a quick profit is considered a transaction on account of income.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 20, 2018, 11:31:21 PM
Hmm, if that is the case and he has been reporting that income, then he has a fool for an accountant.


And the accountant has a fool for a client!

ps there is no way TC would actually "pay" for advice  ! 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 21, 2018, 12:11:40 AM
If it is his own house he's renovating then he's gotta sell to make a profit. Unless he plans to take out a Heloc and use the equity gains to borrow money.  If his house depreciates in value though then he's screwed.  Lots of Americans had that happen in the last housing crash and walked away from their mortgages.

Better get a financial advisor soon Trench. you might have an unexpected tax bill to pay!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 21, 2018, 01:12:43 AM
Essentially I will rent out my house, the £400 or so clear income will be more than enough to rent a pad out there, say up to £200 with the other £200 to pay for bills food & entertainment. I'll have savings in addition so if I go over one month it will not be a big problem. Apparently the average Ukrainian monthly salary did not exceed $300 last year so I should live well comparatively speaking :)
As ever, TC you are unrealistic in the financial planning. My wife had a higher monthly allowance from me whilst she was waiting for her spouse visa. It was not excessive, but enough to ensure a comfortable lifestyle. The Ukrainian women will soon discover your financial weakness through your standard of living.

In the UK, someone like youself, would expect their wife to work. To have a good standard of living, you need to have a combined income of around £35,000 in southern England. You have to consider other overheads such as mortgage, pension payments, etc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 21, 2018, 01:41:27 AM
he doesn't listen to anyone so just let him do what he wants. if he runs outta money or find that girls don't care about him, well it's up to him to change.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 21, 2018, 01:55:35 AM
he doesn't listen to anyone so just let him do what he wants. if he runs outta money or find that girls don't care about him, well it's up to him to change.

Blighty has joined a long list that have tried to help him --  but-- he still thinks he knows better than EVERYONE else -- apart from some half baked nonsense that fitted his own thoughts.

The real bottom line -- it would be possible to do it on his prospective budget --  BUT -- not with his insulting & condescending attitude to Ukraine and Ukrainian women. The right guy with the right intent could manage it -- however -- TC is diametrically opposed to being a right guy !

Got another one for ya all-- I note his comments about construction workers being dirty -- being English TC has probably not heard of a shower-let alone a couple of times a day !! In this country -- those guys can earn close to $200K per year working 9 day fortnights and 6 weeks plus paid annual leave . Needless to say they are  not  sitting on their backsides all day !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on May 21, 2018, 02:08:23 AM
he doesn't listen to anyone so just let him do what he wants. if he runs outta money or find that girls don't care about him, well it's up to him to change.

None of the posts I write (more or less) even if addressed to Trench is not actually written to make him understand, it's more for the lurkers out there that still might be able to get some insight in to this, and actually value shared experience and a good advice.

I am still waiting for Trench to pick up on my offer for a free dinner, but.. he dodged that one as he has with so many other questions.
Selective reading or a reading disability?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 21, 2018, 02:12:15 AM
pretty much every guy here has had more success than him yet he thinks his "way" is the best.  I laugh when he says he won't Skype or chat with the girls beforehand.  When he shows up to Ukraine I am betting most of the girls will flake out on him.  As they aren't emotionally invested in him at all. 

His antiquated views on life shows how out of touch he is.  I bet he's been stuck in his little town for his entire life and not even ventured out to London except in transit.

The oilsand workers here used to pull in 6 figures until the price of oil dropped.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 21, 2018, 02:33:16 AM

I am still waiting for Trench to pick up on my offer for a free dinner, but.. he dodged that one as he has with so many other questions.
Selective reading or a reading disability?

I read the offer...surprised that Trench didn't go for it seeing how cheap he is!  It's a free dinner.  He probably realized he couldn't even pull one lady or "bird" as he calls them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on May 21, 2018, 02:47:54 AM
Well it will affect least cover the essentials, I can then either live of savings and/or do a bit of English Foreign Language Tutoring. Main thing is I won't be working all the time. I think the rental income alone may give a but of a spartan lifestyle but still I will probably get by ok on it. Most Ukrainians apparently live on a lot less.
The amount you could make from tutoring English is minimal. Why would you spend your savings just to temporarily live in Ukraine? Don't be foolish. Keep working, save money and meet women online, it's the best way to suceed. Why are you so stubborn? No woman is going to be impressed by a man who can only afford the essentials.

Most of the women here are going to expect you to improve your standing in life and have a solid plan for doing that. Are you ready?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 21, 2018, 11:56:43 AM
Don't you have a teenage son also ?

My son is now a fine  grown man .
and 22yo. Has never had any kind of attitude towards anyone,certainky not to a working man or blue collar. He grew up always with me so that's no surprise .
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 21, 2018, 12:02:06 PM
OMG.. Haven't you noticed ...?

Trench even has BIzarre viewpoints on kids, too

@Blighty - cannot agree with your 'classification' of Trench as typical ...   He mostly brings shame on other UK posters with his 'adviSe'. / opinions. The scary thing is - he is now a 'hero member' - for posting an awful lot of drivel and responding to criticism with more bollox or a woeful sense of humour

I have noticed,it is why ive tried to point out to him that his mentality needs adjustment.
One of the main things that most any FSU woman (or UK woman) would truly value, and that he he can offer, is being a good father.
  People can change,they can grow,mature, what they value can change.
How much is  up to them.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 21, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
Reading Trench Coats threads and comments is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 21, 2018, 04:29:02 PM
Hmm, if that is the case and he has been reporting that income, then he has a fool for an accountant.

I assumed he is renovating other properties, which is why he is only working part time.  But even if my assumption is correct, such renovations may be on account of income rather than capital.  Certainly, in Canada, they would be fully taxable.  Anything you flip (stocks, real estate, bonds, cars, etc.) for a quick profit is considered a transaction on account of income.

No, house renovation is a capItal gain in the UK if it is your only/main residence and you have lived there for a while. It would only be classed as income of you were an actual business, didn't take up residence in the property. No capical gains tax is payable if you have lived there a while. Why? Because as someone has said the market moves up & down so otherwise people would be being taxed on a house that may have just gone up with inflation or with all the rest of the market making it difficult for then to afford to move because they would be buying another house that gas gone up similarly.

So the taxman here does not judge whether your house has risen in line with the market of inflation, it's too much for the taxman to deal with and would gets everyones backs up. So any improvements which may have made the property rise above the market value it otherwise would have had are seen as a reward to the homeowner for doing up the property. Otherwise no one would bother doing up their home much and the stock of housing in the UK would be even worse.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 21, 2018, 04:33:46 PM
The TC reference to a capital gain is the renovation of his own residential property  and it's potential increase in value.


FWIW --1,000 GBP =1,343.69USD

I recall a chat conversation  a long time ago about cost estimates of what was needed -- back then I said approx $100 per day  was sensible allowance . In Ukraine over the last 4 years costs have risen dramatically and continue to.Maybe more like $150 at a rough guess.

Even if you halve my number -- which could be possible -- it is still a long way from $45 per day.

You can save money by going down market on apartment, catching the bus,buying food at the supermarket or markets ( not as cheap as some seem to think) etc etc  or not eating !!  I am sure all that frugality will really impress a girl !

A couple of days ago I saw a survey of FSUW about western men and what they expect of them -- and what they don't want.
On a list of 20 -- top of the list was "greediness" which referred to financial meanness and and lack of emotional giving !

Jay, the Ukrainian worker is NOT earning $100 a day so why would I need it. If they are paying  $200 a month for a flat then likilihoid is most aren't earning much more than $400 a monthigh.  From stuff online many seem to suggest ita not a lot more than $200 that they earn outside of Kiev.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 21, 2018, 04:35:03 PM
No, house renovation is a capItal gain in the UK if it is your only/main residence and you have lived there for a while. It would only be classed as income of you were an actual business, didn't take up residence in the property. No capical gains tax is payable if you have lived there a while. Why? Because as someone has said the market moves up & down so otherwise people would be being taxed on a house that may have just gone up with inflation or with all the rest of the market making it difficult for then to afford to move because they would be buying another house that gas gone up similarly.

So the taxman here does not judge whether your house has risen in line with the market of inflation, it's too much for the taxman to deal with and would gets everyones backs up. So any improvements which may have made the property rise above the market value it otherwise would have had are seen as a reward to the homeowner for doing up the property. Otherwise no one would bother doing up their home much and the stock of housing in the UK would be even worse.


So then what you take home annually is less than 15,000?  How are you paying capital gains on a your primary residence?  Have you sold it? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 21, 2018, 04:38:27 PM
Jay, the Ukrainian worker is NOT earning $100 a day so why would I need it. If they are paying  $200 a month for a flat then likilihoid is most aren't earning much more than $400 a monthigh.  From stuff online many seem to suggest ita not a lot more than $200 that they earn outside of Kiev.
You are mistaken.

The minimum wage in Ukraine is USD$170.  Most Ukrainians earn over USD$200, and there are a lot earning thousands a month.

What you are not considering is that this is an "official" salary.  Everyone who works earns income that is not reported, so it's never taken into account in determining average wages.

Most Ukrainians also aren't paying rent on apartments.  Finally, as a foreigner, you will always pay a premium.  You cannot live like a Ukrainian.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 21, 2018, 04:57:06 PM
No, house renovation is a capItal gain in the UK if it is your only/main residence and you have lived there for a while.

Enough enough enough pf you BS nonsense.
In any category --it IS NOT a capital gain until you sell .

So -- let us see if I am correct --  it is your own house primary place of residence that you are renovating that is the subject of your comments about a gain-- correct?

Additionally -- you do not intend to sell -- correct?


Capital gains tax on the sale of your home


Updated on 10 April 2018
Normally when you sell your home you do not have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the profit because the gain is relieved (exempt) from tax


http://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/armed-forces-and-tax/other-tax-issues/capital-gains-tax-armed-services/capital-gains-tax
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 21, 2018, 09:49:21 PM
Trench you got no idea what capital gains is.  How exactly are you making money from your "building projects"? 

Renting out your place is considered income not gains.  It all sounds fishy to me what you got going on.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 21, 2018, 10:43:15 PM

I wish it were so simple as to mail order me a bride ;D

Found this gem of a quote from Rainman.  Sums it all up.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2018, 12:24:48 AM

So then what you take home annually is less than 15,000?  How are you paying capital gains on a your primary residence?  Have you sold it?

Yes I am currently taking home less than £15000, I'm taking home around £14k. That is because I do only 30 hours a week. Incidentally it also means I don't pay much income tax or NI contribution since I'm only over the bordetime by a bit when that kicks in.

I have not yet sold my primary residence because Im still doing it up. When this is done I can rent it out for a whlie to generate more income as to live abroad. When no longer needed for that I could sell it and realise the capital gain. I bought the house for below market value as it was in a state of disrepair and needed doing up - hence the capital gain.

So of course until I sell it and realise the capital gain the capital gain is only I theory. I bought the house at auction for almost have the average cost of houses on the street accordingly to Zoopla and that seems fairly accurate according to most recent house price sells. So I should be in a fairly decent position at the end of it all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 22, 2018, 12:27:29 AM
Yes I am currently taking home less than £15000, I'm taking home around £14k. That is because I do only 30 hours a week. Incidentally it also means I don't pay much income tax or NI contribution since I'm only over the bordetime by a bit when that kicks in.

I have not yet sold my primary residence because Im still doing it up. When this is done I can rent it out for a whlie to generate more income as to live abroad. When no longer needed for that I could sell it and realise the capital gain. I bought the house for below market value as it was in a state of disrepair and needed doing up - hence the capital gain.

So of course until I sell it and realise the capital gain the capital gain is only I theory. I bought the house at auction for almost have the average cost of houses on the street accordingly to Zoopla and that seems fairly accurate according to most recent house price sells. So I should be in a fairly decent position at the end of it all.

Answer the question

Enough enough enough pf you BS nonsense.
In any category --it IS NOT a capital gain until you sell .

So -- let us see if I am correct --  it is your own house primary place of residence that you are renovating that is the subject of your comments about a gain-- correct?

Additionally -- you do not intend to sell -- correct?


Capital gains tax on the sale of your home


Updated on 10 April 2018
Normally when you sell your home you do not have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the profit because the gain is relieved (exempt) from tax


http://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/armed-forces-and-tax/other-tax-issues/capital-gains-tax-armed-services/capital-gains-tax
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 12:36:51 AM
Yes I am currently taking home less than £15000, I'm taking home around £14k. That is because I do only 30 hours a week. Incidentally it also means I don't pay much income tax or NI contribution since I'm only over the bordetime by a bit when that kicks in.

I have not yet sold my primary residence because Im still doing it up. When this is done I can rent it out for a whlie to generate more income as to live abroad. When no longer needed for that I could sell it and realise the capital gain. I bought the house for below market value as it was in a state of disrepair and needed doing up - hence the capital gain.

So of course until I sell it and realise the capital gain the capital gain is only I theory. I bought the house at auction for almost have the average cost of houses on the street accordingly to Zoopla and that seems fairly accurate according to most recent house price sells. So I should be in a fairly decent position at the end of it all.

You’ve been posting all along that you don’t need much income, as you have a mortgage free home. So if you sell your home, where will you live?

I thought your other thought was to rent the home while you’re abroad. Which means no capital gain.

Either way, unless you have significant savings, it seems you are under undercapitalized for this venture.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2018, 12:44:06 AM
You’ve been posting all along that you don’t need much income, as you have a mortgage free home. So if you sell your home, where will you live?

I thought your other thought was to rent the home while you’re abroad. Which means no capital gain.

Either way, unless you have significant savings, it seems you are under undercapitalized for this venture.

I can temporarily live at my Mothers house, no not basement ;D You see if I bought a second house on a mortgage to do all of this then I would have to pay stamp duty and capital gains tax would start to come into play (since it is a non residing property). On just a single property owned though at given point in time I pay no stamp duty.

I will rent the home so I will be putting off the capItal gain, but on selling there will be one almost for sure.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 22, 2018, 12:48:32 AM
So-- everything you have repeatedly posted about money & capital gain in BS ( along with the huge majority of what you write here.

Of note -- when faced with facts== TC seeks to divert  and refuses to face the reality.

But, then comes the" I think" -- which is actually diametrically opposed to what he does -- he spews garbage from his keyboard that is mostly  pure BS. :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 12:50:59 AM
I can temporarily live at my Mothers house, no not basement ;D You see if I bought a second house on a mortgage to do all of this then I would have to pay stamp duty and capital gains tax would start to come into play (since it is a non residing property). On just a single property owned though at given point in time I pay no stamp duty.

I will rent the home so I will be putting off the capItal gain, but on selling there will be one almost for sure.

Wasn't your goal to marry, have children, and your long term goal to have an FSU wife living with you in the UK?  Do you really believe living with your mother would be conducive to a good marriage?  That would be a major stress on 99/100 marriages.

So, you are really down to a low income while you fix your home, which, presumably, you do not intend to sell.  I still believe you are underfunded for this venture.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 22, 2018, 12:58:41 AM
For the record and anyone reading-- you could do a trip on a very low budget > Think backpacker type accom which is available with decent facilities for about $10 a night in many cities.If you eat at the right places and shop at markets and supermarkets,use the trains and buses -- you could do it on a very tight budget.
Now if you are 20 yo or a youthful 30 yo - it would be doable  for about $250 a week.

You would need to do your homework and have a plan  -- not speaking the language would not matter -- and you would have a great experience .

Summer would be best -- but Autumn and Spring ok also.Winter can be ok away from the depths . :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 01:03:55 AM
I'm not referring to travel costs.  I am referring to marriage.

Also, I think if Blighty's analysis of Trench's working class attitudes is correct (I assume it is), he would be better to visit places like Zaporizhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, and Mykolayiv.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2018, 01:04:55 AM
You are mistaken.

The minimum wage in Ukraine is USD$170.  Most Ukrainians earn over USD$200, and there are a lot earning thousands a month.

What you are not considering is that this is an "official" salary.  Everyone who works earns income that is not reported, so it's never taken into account in determining average wages.

Most Ukrainians also aren't paying rent on apartments.  Finally, as a foreigner, you will always pay a premium.  You cannot live like a Ukrainian.

Ok many Ukrainians may well now own their own apartment so no rent to pay. Those that do I have heard of prices around the $200 for a two bed apartment and estate agents on the internet quoting similar prices. Yes I would have to rent probably fir at least six months to a year to get at that rate it it is a cheap rate. I could rent a whole year but not be compelled to stay there all the time, it would only cost me $1200 for the year plus bills.

I know a lot of unofficial wages are not counted so all is perhaps not as it seems. There is also a lot of unrecorded unemployment no doubt then the situation with inflation. I do think though that Ukrainians are not rolling in it. To my mind the Ukrainian government is getting money in somehow to pay for its army, government infrastructure, benefits, debts etc.

I realise I need to improve my financial situation even still further and I'm working on this but it will not happen overnight. It will take a year or so and that is quite a quick pace really.

However, if you look at guys like Bounder, he is in Moscow one of the priciest cities in the FSU. He is entirely supporting himself of his English Foreign Language earnings. He has no independent income to fall back on. He us working all hours under the sun for it yet he also manages just to date as well.

What I'm saying is that in a cheaper area, it should be very doable to live their for a while. Ok so I will have to apply for a business visales or whatever. I'll do whatever is needed to sort the situation but I'm sure it can be done.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2018, 01:12:42 AM
You’ve been posting all along that you don’t need much income, as you have a mortgage free home. So if you sell your home, where will you live?

I thought your other thought was to rent the home while you’re abroad. Which means no capital gain.

Either way, unless you have significant savings, it seems you are under undercapitalized for this venture.

I obviously won't be living with my Mother I say temporarily as in between selling one house and buying another.

What I am trying to do is to obtain a position of flexibility in this venture. Until you meet a girl you don't know her thoughts on moving abroad or staying in her home country. So guys meet girls just to be stumped by her point blankly refusing to move abroad as all her family live there.

I have some savings a few grand, which should increase over time. So while more savings is always good there is not a bad fallback if I need it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 22, 2018, 01:13:12 AM


So, you are really down to a low income while you fix your home, which you presumably do not intend to sell.  I still believe you are underfunded for this venture.

"Out" there in Ukraine my Ukrainian  ex ( who is quite a bit younger than TC) is now earning (on the books) far more than TC . I guarantee that her renovated apartment( in a grey dreary Soviet era block !!) is of 5 star western level with all modern appliances . She has some modest savings   ,has made several trips to other countries  etc etc .

That is all her own work after some very tough years while studying and in early work years. She is better off than average , but in no way unique . :)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 22, 2018, 01:18:14 AM
Dude, you have zero qualifications to teach English.  Your command of the language is poor.  You yourself said you didn't have the aptitude to be a teacher, now you think you can go abroad and teach?

In Moscow you need ESL certificates and work experience.  The days of just being a native speaker and getting a job are loooong gone.  Your students will find out quickly that you can't teach and then they'll quit lessons.

You haven't lived abroad before. This isn't like going for a week long vacation somewhere.  Being in a foreign country not knowing the language will wear you out fast.

I speak some Russian and even I had to adapt.  I guarantee you the Russian mentality will mess you up.  They don't think like people in Western countries.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 01:19:30 AM
Ok many Ukrainians may well now own their own apartment so no rent to pay. Those that do I have heard of prices around the $200 for a two bed apartment and estate agents on the internet quoting similar prices. Yes I would have to rent probably fir at least six months to a year to get at that rate it it is a cheap rate. I could rent a whole year but not be compelled to stay there all the time, it would only cost me $1200 for the year plus bills.


First, you will never get a rate that Ukrainians pay.  I don't get Ukrainian rates unless I'm with the better half, and that is only because I don't mind paying more as a foreigner, but he does.


Second, you can't stay in Ukraine a whole year.  You can only stay for up to 90 days in any 180 day period. 

Quote
I know a lot of unofficial wages are not counted so all is perhaps not as it seems. There is also a lot of unrecorded unemployment no doubt then the situation with inflation. I do think though that Ukrainians are not rolling in it. To my mind the Ukrainian government is getting money in somehow to pay for its army, government infrastructure, benefits, debts etc.


No, Ukrainians are not rolling in it.  But that doesn't mean you can live as they do.

Quote
However, if you look at guys like Bounder, he is in Moscow one of the priciest cities in the FSU. He is entirely supporting himself of his English Foreign Language earnings. He has no independent income to fall back on. He us working all hours under the sun for it yet he also manages just to date as well.


He was a federal civil servant, so he was making a good wage in Canada.  He did have savings when he first landed in Moscow.  He did not land in the country impecunious.

Quote
What I'm saying is that in a cheaper area, it should be very doable to live their for a while. Ok so I will have to apply for a business visales or whatever. I'll do whatever is needed to sort the situation but I'm sure it can be done.


To obtain a long term visa in Ukraine, you have to prove you have sufficient funds to support yourself. 


So what do you plan to do there?  If you wish to teach English and the school tests your language skills, you will not be successful.  You can't tell the difference between a contraction and a possessive pronoun, a simple concept that my children learned in the first grade.  That means any English language teaching job worth having will not be available to you.  One thing you will learn in Ukraine is that if people are paying for foreign language lessons, they are sticklers for grammatical rules.


As I have posted in the past, any job at which you will make good money - money enough to support yourself - will also make  you a target for Ukrainians.  My husband's cousin owns kiosks selling foods all over Kyiv.  He has to pay a roof (protection money) to keep them in operation. Another cousin owns a salon.  She also pays protection money.  Another, as I posted previously, leases farmlands.  She also owns two stores in Kyiv.  She also pays protection money.  This is common in Ukraine. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 22, 2018, 01:22:26 AM
Ok many Ukrainians may well now own their own apartment so no rent to pay. Those that do I have heard of prices around the $200 for a two bed apartment and estate agents on the internet quoting similar prices. Yes I would have to rent probably fir at least six months to a year to get at that rate it it is a cheap rate. I could rent a whole year but not be compelled to stay there all the time, it would only cost me $1200 for the year plus bills.

Do you read nothing?
You can only stay 90 days in any 6 month period -- you cannot stay for a year. FULL STOP

So more BS

I'm not referring to travel costs.  I am referring to marriage.

Also, I think if Blighty analysis of Trench's working class attitudes is correct (I assume it is), he would be better to visit places like Zaporizhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, and Mykolayiv.

As it happens -- I know all those cities quite well.
I do not think attitudes are that different to Kyiv  or Odessa.
I love Dnipro - good place and interesting.
My preference is for TC NOT to go there-- no one deserves that. :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 22, 2018, 01:23:28 AM

 Until you meet a girl you don't know her thoughts on moving abroad or staying in her home country. So guys meet girls just to be stumped by her point blankly refusing to move abroad as all her family live there.


That's why you Skype before you go!!  use some common sense man.  You establish communication before hand and figure out her intentions.  Ask point blank does she want to leave her country.  Where she wants to live. 

You can't even think it through.  You're just going to randomly meet girls on your trip. You have no idea if they even want to date a foreigner or move abroad. What a waste of time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 01:24:37 AM
As it happens -- I know all those cities quite well.
I do not think attitudes are that different to Kyiv  or Odessa.
I love Dnipro - good place and interesting.


They are all "working class" cities, so not as big a stretch as Kyiv, Odesa, or L'viv. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 01:32:02 AM
It may sound to you as if everyone here is a naysayer, Trench, but we can just see the holes in your planning.  Were you 25 and doing this, I'd say it's foolish, but you're young, just be careful, don't cross any gopniks, always be aware of your surroundings, and enjoy yourself.  But you're not 25, and I just see it as a waste of time, and, more importantly, poor planning on your part with respect to achieving your desired goal. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 22, 2018, 01:53:21 AM
I realise I need to improve my financial situation even still further and I'm working on this but it will not happen overnight. It will take a year or so and that is quite a quick pace really.

I obviously won't be living with my Mother I say temporarily as in between selling one house and buying another.

What I am trying to do is to obtain a position of flexibility in this venture. Until you meet a girl you don't know her thoughts on moving abroad or staying in her home country. So guys meet girls just to be stumped by her point blankly refusing to move abroad as all her family live there.

I have some savings a few grand, which should increase over time. So while more savings is always good there is not a bad fallback if I need it.

What planet do you live on? I worry about some Ukrainian woman falling for you, and then discovering that she has to spend the rest of her life in Ukraine because you fail the spouse visa tests:

- Your income is too low amd so you will fail the financial test
- You will probably fail the accommodation test
- Your savings are under £16,000 and so do not count

These rules are intended to protect foreign spouses from idiots like you who live in an English 'dumpsk'. No doubt you will become one of those men campaigning to abolish the tests because you cannot really afford to support your wife in the UK.

BTW I have modernised my primary properties in the past, and you are only exempt from capital gains after 3 years. The next house is always more expensive. My last endeavour was break even as the property market in the north never really recovered after the last price crash. More fantasy land thinking from you. Perhaps you need 39to find a partner working in the construction industry!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 22, 2018, 02:02:48 AM
Do you really believe living with your mother would be conducive to a good marriage?  That would be a major stress on 99/100 marriages.


  A friend of mine from Crimea married an Italian guy when she was 18 yo ( against her families wishes)  and went to Italy for a better life. Problem was -he lived with his mother and refused to move out ! Six months later,pregnant and penniless she fled back to Ukraine.
There was no way,as in no way she would ever return to him or have him in her life .

Subsequently she picked up work she had done before as a DJ -- and has been very successful ,doing gigs in many different countries and now happily married with 2 more children.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 22, 2018, 03:26:42 AM
  A friend of mine from Crimea married an Italian guy when she was 18 yo ( against her families wishes)  and went to Italy for a better life. Problem was -he lived with his mother and refused to move out !



Damn. how old was he at the time?!   I guess when you're 18 you can be blinded by love.  she was going for La Dolce Vita and got hit with reality.  there's a thing with Russian women and Italian guys.  I have several friends who went to Italy to find a guy but none worked out.  From what they told me Italian guys can be mama's boys and immature.  Suave and charming but too much drama in a relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2018, 10:17:22 AM
I know two RU lasses married to Itai guys for over 10 years ....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 22, 2018, 12:19:37 PM


As I have posted in the past, any job at which you will make good money - money enough to support yourself - will also make  you a target for Ukrainians.  My husband's cousin owns kiosks selling foods all over Kyiv.  He has to pay a roof (protection money) to keep them in operation. Another cousin owns a salon.  She also pays protection money.  Another, as I posted previously, leases farmlands.  She also owns two stores in Kyiv.  She also pays protection money.  This is common in Ukraine.

I've seen them shake down a babushka at a little a little beer kiosk.
It's why it can never really realize its potential as a country.

  Corruption from the tiniest thing to the largest,at every level.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 22, 2018, 12:29:33 PM
I know of two couples here, were the man needed a sponsor to get the k1 granted as their income did not meet the requirement.

Those women were nuts to follow through, but they did.
One guy is dating another woman in ukraine now ,and planning to leave his current wife and has told her so.
How they funds trips I have no idea.

But I do believe TC is much better than more than a few I've met over the years that married and some long term.

Pretty low bar to compare to, it my point is even those men,who at the time I felt had far more issues than financial (or TC) were as successful , in average , as most any  marraiges. Strange but true.

There is a hat for every head
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2018, 12:51:32 PM

- Your income is too low amd so you will fail the financial test
- You will probably fail the accommodation test
- Your savings are under £16,000 and so do not count

BTW I have modernised my primary properties in the past, and you are only exempt from capital gains after 3 years. The next house is always more expensive. My last endeavour was break even as the property market in the north never really recovered after the last price crash. More fantasy land thinking from you. Perhaps you need to find a partner working in the construction industry!

Accomodation test?

I have somewhere to live, I even own it.

Well as said before I can temporarily do over the 18.6k for six months for the application and reduce thereafter. I don't have rent to pay so my accommodation costs are cheap.

I can get to 16k or more particularly if I work more hours for six months before applying. I can even borrow money off credit cards or take out loans to get if above this amount at least temporarily on paper.

Believe me there are people, couples & families that live on far less than I do in the UK and have far less financial clout. If things I've got in motion turn out good for me then I will be in a better financial position in time.

As far as capit al gains was concerned 3 years is news to me. The last I heard was that if you live in the property for six months you are free from capital gains.

Lookin up it looks like if you convert the property you pay CGT or buy it to renovate & sell. However you don't pay CGT  if it is your only/main home accusing to the 'which' website. I would guess this is if you renovate as a builder as your business. No way otherwise would they have any clue about if you were renovating to sell on, unless you put your foot in it. There was a builder guy along my road who bought a house at the same auction as me,  renovated and sold on just after six months. I doubt he would have if he was paying CGT & stamp duty (pretty sure he lived elsewhere) wouldn't have been worth his while.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 01:32:57 PM
Believe me there are people, couples & families that live on far less than I do in the UK and have far less financial clout. If things I've got in motion turn out good for me then I will be in a better financial position in time.


It doesn't matter what other couples live on.  You must meet the tests the government establishes, or your spouse (should you marry) will not be entitled to a visa.  This isn't rocket science.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 01:46:00 PM
I know of two couples here, were the man needed a sponsor to get the k1 granted as their income did not meet the requirement.

Those women were nuts to follow through, but they did.
One guy is dating another woman in ukraine now ,and planning to leave his current wife and has told her so.
How they funds trips I have no idea.

But I do believe TC is much better than more than a few I've met over the years that married and some long term.

Pretty low bar to compare to, it my point is even those men,who at the time I felt had far more issues than financial (or TC) were as successful , in average , as most any  marraiges. Strange but true.

There is a hat for every head


While I agree there is a hat for every head, in a way, the attitudes are appalling.  Trench  at times exhibits the worst qualities of men looking for wives in the FSU, although he at least is honest about his foibles.  The way I interpret his posts, he is not looking for an equal.  He is searching in a poor country so he can leverage his own meager salary, and a foreign woman's lack of understanding of the economics of his culture, for his benefit.  There is no reciprocity, no mutual benefit.  Perhaps that is because, I assume, he has never been in love.  Or perhaps he is just a selfish SOB who in incapable of looking at things from other perspectives.  I make no judgment on which applies.







Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2018, 02:35:20 PM
I'm not referring to travel costs.  I am referring to marriage.

Also, I think if Blighty's analysis of Trench's working class attitudes is correct (I assume it is), he would be better to visit places like Zaporizhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, and Mykolayiv.

What analysis is that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2018, 02:48:21 PM
It may sound to you as if everyone here is a naysayer, Trench, but we can just see the holes in your planning.  Were you 25 and doing this, I'd say it's foolish, but you're young, just be careful, don't cross any gopniks, always be aware of your surroundings, and enjoy yourself.  But you're not 25, and I just see it as a waste of time, and, more importantly, poor planning on your part with respect to achieving your desired goal.

Well I admit Lviv is a bit of a grasp but I think it's a risk I would like to try out just this once. Ive done meet one before so would like to try the alternative. It's easiest to do in a pleasant location. If it doesn't work well I will try some long weekends this year to some of the cities you mention. I know time is not on my side but think I all I can do is keep banging away as best I can. If I were aware at ghe start of this search that I could just go out there and calls girls up on the hoof I would have probably do so. However, odds are I would have just made different mistakes.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 22, 2018, 03:10:49 PM
Accomodation test?

I have somewhere to live, I even own it.

Well as said before I can temporarily do over the 18.6k for six months for the application and reduce thereafter. I don't have rent to pay so my accommodation costs are cheap.

I can get to 16k or more particularly if I work more hours for six months before applying. I can even borrow money off credit cards or take out loans to get if above this amount at least temporarily on paper.

Believe me there are people, couples & families that live on far less than I do in the UK and have far less financial clout. If things I've got in motion turn out good for me then I will be in a better financial position in time.

As far as capit al gains was concerned 3 years is news to me. The last I heard was that if you live in the property for six months you are free from capital gains.

Lookin up it looks like if you convert the property you pay CGT or buy it to renovate & sell. However you don't pay CGT  if it is your only/main home accusing to the 'which' website. I would guess this is if you renovate as a builder as your business. No way otherwise would they have any clue about if you were renovating to sell on, unless you put your foot in it. There was a builder guy along my road who bought a house at the same auction as me,  renovated and sold on just after six months. I doubt he would have if he was paying CGT & stamp duty (pretty sure he lived elsewhere) wouldn't have been worth his while.

You are talking about renting out your house to live in Ukraine (and so giving up your job)! CORRECT? This has an impact on both the income and accommodation tests.

The VAF4A form in question 3.2 asks how much money you have earned in the last 12 months. Later in that section, information about your employment history is requested. Employer reference and job contract are required as part of the visa application. You are trying to be too clever with the rules. Just have a normal job earning above £18,600 pa to meet government requirements. Forget about living in Ukraine.

Renting out a house can lead to problems with sitting tenents. The government requests information about a property and incliudes an overcrowding test. Land Registry and Council Tax forms are mandatory. Again, you have not read the visa rules.

You talk about 'capital gains' which suggests that you are going to sell your house to realise a financial gain. Where are you going to live? Again, the accommodation test must be considered.

These are the reasons why I worry about your financial and accommodation tests. You are making life too complicated for this process. UKVI likes people to conform to their rigid rules.

BTW Private Residence Relief on a person's property is invalid if you have ever rented out it to someone. This is why your 'renting out' idea does not work at all. HMRC is always looking to tax people, and so it will catch up with you eventually.

Most Ukrainian women will want to work in the UK due to their ambitions for the future, such as a bigger house. Remember that you are going to be a member of a team with Mrs TC. These women have a mind of their own which I view as a positive attribute.





 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 22, 2018, 03:35:08 PM
The way I interpret his posts, he is not looking for an equal.  He is searching in a poor country so he can leverage his own meager salary, and a foreign woman's lack of understanding of the economics of his culture, for his benefit. 

You may be correct with your conclusion. However, I think that he would be undone by such an approach. My wife spent months preparing to come to the UK through using the Internet. She discovered all the major retailers in advance, and asked me to take her to the local branches. She loves windows shopping (take note TC).

He would find it difficult to ensure that his future wife maintained a lack an understanding of our economics. She would soon learn about our culture, and realise she had married someone with a meager salary. She would want to work for a better standard of living.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2018, 03:52:09 PM
When I said rent I really meant Lodgers rather than Tenants and as such it would not count as a taxable property for capital gains purposes - since it is still counted as my residence. I will also be keeping a room there for myself. Possibly I will still have to be careful of overcrowding but I think it could be passable. I anticipate taking in two Lodgers most probably students as there is a large Uni nearby.

The 12 month question might be a pain but I will just have to deal with the situation as best I can with what is happening at the time. I've tried with last girl to suggest Cyprus as an easier alternative but FSU girls seem wary of any game change. So unless I get things sorted in a location like that where I can say I live I'm probably stuck with the UK situation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 04:08:58 PM
You may be correct with your conclusion. However, I think that he would be undone by such an approach. My wife spent months preparing to come to the UK through using the Internet. She discovered all the major retailers in advance, and asked me to take her to the local branches. She loves windows shopping (take note TC).

He would find it difficult to ensure that his future wife maintained a lack an understanding of our economics. She would soon learn about our culture, and realise she had married someone with a meager salary. She would want to work for a better standard of living.


I'm not suggesting he won't be undone, just that this is the approach it seems he intends to use, up to and including not funding further education and dissuading a woman from anything but a menial job so that she is, in his perception, more reliant on him.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 22, 2018, 04:29:25 PM
Trench is also going to have to look for a FSUW who hasn't been abroad or uses the Internet. My wife lived and worked in Germany for a few years and speaks the language. She had also traveled all over Europe, been to the US and of course to some of the favorite Russian vacation spots such as Turkey and Egypt. All of this before the Internet was common in the FSU.

Today with the Internet as soon as a FSUW knows where Trench is from in the UK she can look up his city and know all about it. If she knows his address she will soon know what his house looks like. If she finds out how much he makes she will know how well he's paid compared to his neighbors. Do a search on his name and see if he's made the news or been arrested. Perhaps find out where he went to school and university.

If she's at all Internet savvy she will quickly find out everything about him and be able to determine if he's worth dating and having a relationship with.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 22, 2018, 05:51:29 PM

I'm not suggesting he won't be undone, just that this is the approach it seems he intends to use, up to and including not funding further education and dissuading a woman from anything but a menial job so that she is, in his perception, more reliant on him.

What TC has consistently done is make unrealistic,illconceived comments  across a range of issues/ . That encompasses every part of what he has said--either ignorance or an outright lie or attempt to mislead is there for all to see.

He is either completely stupid  detached individual or just plain dumb!

TC has been quite happy to lash ignorantly at those who have pointed out his failings and never concede when  he is clearly wrong..
His fundamental attitudes across a range of relevant issues and his "thinking" conclusions are all too often arse up .
His insulting attitude to women(particularly Ukrainian women),to Ukraine based on his ignorance says he deserves all the negativity aimed at him.

He is a 40 yo pudgy pom that is scared to sit in the sun ( LoL)  that thinks he is smarter than everyone else here- and in the FSU  !

Those here that think I am being harsh - you need to have read his misfit comments  and some that he has attempted to pass off as humour -- with there being nothing clever of funny in them --just offensive and insulting ignorance.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 22, 2018, 06:50:45 PM
Not harsh at all JayH. Trench by his account says he's been trying for close to 10 years!!  He'd be better off to sell his house and move to Ukraine to teach English at this point.  All his efforts have yielded him a few dates and not much else.

With the money for flights and hotels he could have just gone to London and find an FSU girl there.  But they wouldn't be the "poor" village girls who haven't seen a big city and all that it has to offer. 

He complains about spending money but won't even look in his own backyard.  Because reality is most girls Russian or otherwise wouldn't give him the time of day.  He has said that numerous times.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2018, 07:49:41 PM
I've tried with last girl to suggest Cyprus as an easier alternative but FSU girls seem wary of any game change. So unless I get things sorted in a location like that where I can say I live I'm probably stuck with the UK situation.

And how would you have brought / bring in income in Cyprus? ... 

IF you are earning what you claim ... ( I seriously question the veracity of most of what you post - I believe you are bored and need something to keep you busy ) you cannot afford to be in this endeavour 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 22, 2018, 09:12:03 PM
Trench is also going to have to look for a FSUW who hasn't been abroad or uses the Internet. My wife lived and worked in Germany for a few years and speaks the language. She had also traveled all over Europe, been to the US and of course to some of the favorite Russian vacation spots such as Turkey and Egypt. All of this before the Internet was common in the FSU.

Today with the Internet as soon as a FSUW knows where Trench is from in the UK she can look up his city and know all about it. If she knows his address she will soon know what his house looks like. If she finds out how much he makes she will know how well he's paid compared to his neighbors. Do a search on his name and see if he's made the news or been arrested. Perhaps find out where he went to school and university.

If she's at all Internet savvy she will quickly find out everything about him and be able to determine if he's worth dating and having a relationship with.

I agree they could and should.

But the examples I mentioned  the women are intelligent  ,beautiful 35 to 40 yo women.They knew the men needed a petitioner ,and why.
They still followed thru, and certainly not to use as a mule, one has a child with her deadbeat hubby.
  I'm not condoning the mens behaviour at all,   far from it,but I've seen time and again fsu women do  no better,in fact far worse , than they could have done in the fsu, yet stay with the guys.
Yes I've seen them cut and run as well.
Still I've seen the scenario play out often enough to think tc has a reasonable chance even with his challenges.

That doesnt mean I dont think he should change, as I think he needs to for his own happiness long term.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 22, 2018, 09:18:04 PM
And how would you have brought / bring in income in Cyprus? ... 

IF you are earning what you claim ... ( I seriously question the veracity of most of what you post - I believe you are bored and need something to keep you busy ) you cannot afford to be in this endeavour

Kyn is in this endeavour on far less money than me. Like Jumper has said many guys do this venture on not a lot of money. I think because you are rich you are basing everything on that as it's all you'very got going for you. I ain't giving up on this venture at all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 09:21:22 PM
kyn is a student, not a 40 year old man. 


Yes, Jumper may know some women willing to live in abusive relationships, but they are the outliers, not the norm.  It isn't even your lack of money that is your main obstacle.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 22, 2018, 10:28:28 PM
Kyn is in this endeavour on far less money than me. Like Jumper has said many guys do this venture on not a lot of money. I think because you are rich you are basing everything on that as it's all you'very got going for you. I ain't giving up on this venture at all.

Firstly, I'm not rich .... and secondly, it will soon cost you £4k to get a lady in and with a UK passport - and many years of her feeling like a second class citizen - not including flights home and day to day living expenses.

Your previous posts suggest you resent spending... 

If you get find a woman at home, you won't be any different abroad.

You can only search for a good English speakers - as you'll NEVER get her it, otherwise

It is noted you ducked the question about earning money in Cyprus

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 22, 2018, 10:43:11 PM
Financial issues are not the real underlying problem with the men in my examples either.

I'm shocked women will put up with such mentalities,  but they do ,in their own countries as well.
And are not just random outliers although I wish that were the case.

Thing is TC, one if the main things they might leave their country, their family their culture, and all they have ever known , Is for a better man and relationship on more equal terms.

The elephant in the room is a lot of fsu women are indeed working class, and the cultural norms and mentality is a bit more crude and backwards.(I'll take flack for this but it doesnt change the reaility of the average family life there)

Yes there are great men and husbands there as well, and successful modern women.
But dont kid yourself,one of the huge reasons any reasonable percentage will consider leaving is  for a family life with a more forward thinking man ,a more equal relationship ,and better opportunity for their children .
 A lot of what you post ,is a mentality they can easily find on any street,and  not have to leave all they know for it.

Again,your main things you *could* have going for you is being a good father, and husband by respecting her as an equal in every way.
Those things alone are actually enough, but you cant fake them, you have to *be* that person with that mentality.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 22, 2018, 10:58:31 PM

The elephant in the room is a lot of fsu women are indeed working class, and the cultural norms and mentality is a bit more crude and backwards.(I'll take flack for this but it doesnt change the reaility of the average family life there)

Jumper it really depends on where the women are living as to whether or not they're working class. My wife's from Moscow and she's university educated as are most of her friends in Moscow.

If a FSUW lives out in the country with limited access to universities and even good schools she more likely to working class but if she lives in a major city far less chance she's working class. Russian women attend university in large numbers and certainly today it's expected that a RW will go to university for at least a BA/Bsc.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 22, 2018, 11:32:10 PM
Trench's problem isn't even money.  Gleaming from his personality on here I don't think I could spend 5 minutes with the guy in real life.

Wasn't there one lady he took on a date where she was so bored she left early?  Trench you gotta work on your personality and humor first.  Be a fun dude to hang with.  No one especially a lady wants a downer.  The way you interact with people even on this forum shows you gotta work on it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 11:34:09 PM
Jumper it really depends on where the women are living as to whether or not they're working class. My wife's from Moscow and she's university educated as are most of her friends in Moscow.

If a FSUW lives out in the country with limited access to universities and even good schools she more likely to working class but if she lives in a major city far less chance she's working class. Russian women attend university in large numbers and certainly today it's expected that a RW will go to university for at least a BA/Bsc.

I believe you are mistaken on this, and Jumper is correct.

The former Soviet Union is formed, in large part, by the Bolsheviks, and the Bolshevik Revolution.  The vast majority of the pre Revolution nobility, of the elite, of the educated, of the successful, were either executed by the Bolsheviks or fled the country when the borders were still open.  Bolshevik ideology stated that the working class was the "revolutionary vanguard", and that meant that to enter a university, or to gain any position in the society, one had to be part of the working class.

Most positions in Soviet universities were solely for the working class, and most of the time, one needed to have belonged to the party, or komsomol, to gain entrance to university.  In Kyiv, even in the dying days of so called perestroika, there was only one college in the entire oblast' that did not require party membership.

The "working class" roots were drilled into the society daily.  That mentality is still the predominant mentality of Russians and Ukrainians today.  Were you to meet Russians who escaped the Revolution, or Ukrainians who lived in Ukraine before the communists took over, you would notice very much the differences.  They are not just differences due to a different time, it is just a very different attitude, a very different mentality, in general.  It is also why post communist Russians were never able to gain a prominent foothold in Paris, the way they did in, say, London, as many descendants of that nobility settled in Paris and France after the Revolution.  Those worlds never mixed, and the pre Revolution Russians of France view the post communist Russians as boors.

For those who were not part of the working class who had managed to escape execution, because they came from the "rotten nobility", life was hell, right up to the collapse of the USSR.  Unless they were willing to denounce their ancestors and join the party, they were denied any sort of education, even jobs.  Not one of my husbands' grandparents was working class.  His ancestors were famous academics, some were fabulously wealthy merchants, some were famous military men, some were famous artists, and one side was nobility.  If I listed their names here, every Russian would know them, they were that prominent in Russian history.  They would know the properties they owned, which are also prominent, the forts they defended, the cities they founded.  It is a miracle that one side survived, but I won't go into how that occurred.  The result?  When the Bolsheviks discovered they had failed to kill them directly, they set about attempting to do so by breaking their families, by arresting them for nothing, by denying them education, by trying (with my husband) to have him break laws so he could be jailed for a lengthy period.  His family's experience is not unique.  A few of his classmates (purposely put into his orbit) came from prominent families as well.  One was the great grandson of the Tsar's most trusted general.  The general was executed, but somehow, the entire family was not.  They were allowed to emigrate to Kyiv in the late 1960's, after being in Siberia since 1919.  My husband didn't know why the boy was so persecuted by teachers in school until he read about his family, once he moved here.  Another classmate was the great granddaughter of another prominent nobleman, also allowed to move to Kyiv from Siberia.  It was no accident they were placed in my husband's school class.  Neither these individuals, nor their siblings, had any hope of a higher education.  I could get into the experiences of my family, who are from Western Ukraine, and were peasants.

So, anyone who is now university educated pretty much came from that "working class" background.  Education really is irrelevant.  Their attitudes are still formed by the former Soviet Union.  In Russia, that is changing to an extent, but not entirely, as anyone who has encountered Russians on vacation can attest to.

Now, what Jumper means is a certain mentality, which is prominent in very many former Soviet cities.  It really has little to do with education.

I would hazard a guess if you asked what your wife's grandparents, or great grandparents, or great great grandparents did, they were probably either peasants or what the Bolsheviks would describe as "working class".


This whole concept is something that escapes most Westerners, as it is so foreign to how we live.  I may be more attuned to it, having known many Ukrainians and the odd Russian, now all deceased, who grew up before the Revolution.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on May 22, 2018, 11:49:04 PM
I believe you are mistaken on this, and Jumper is correct.

The former Soviet Union is formed, in large part, by the Bolsheviks, and the Bolshevik Revolution.  The vast majority of the pre Revolution nobility, of the elite, of the educated, of the successful were either executed by the Bolsheviks or fled the country when the borders were still open.  Bolshevik ideology stated that the working class was the "revolutionary vanguard", and that meant that to enter a university, or to gain any position in the society, one had to be part of the working class.

Most positions in Soviet universities were solely for the working class, and most of the time, one needed to have belonged to the party, or komsomol, to gain entrance to university.  In Kyiv, even in the dying days of so called perestroika, there was only one college in the entire oblast' that did not require party membership.

The "working class" roots were drilled into the society daily.  That mentality is still the predominant mentality of Russians and Ukrainians today.  Were you to meet Russians who escaped the Revolution, or Ukrainians who lived in Ukraine before the communists took over, you would notice very much the differences.  They are not just differences due to a different time, it is just a very different attitude, a very different mentality, in general.  It is also why Russians were never able to gain a prominent foothold in Paris, the way they did in, say, London, as may descendants of that nobility settled in Paris and France after the Revolution.

For those who were not part of the working class, because they came from the "rotten nobility", life was hell, right up to the collapse of the USSR.  Unless they were willing to denounce their ancestors and join the party, they were denied any sort of education, even jobs.  Not one of my husbands' grandparents were working class.  Some were famous academics, some were fabulously wealthy merchants, some were famous military men, some were famous artists, and one side was nobility.  If I listed their names here, every Russian would know them, they were that prominent in Russian history.  It is a miracle that one side survived, but I won't go into how that occurred.  The result?  When the Bolsheviks discovered they had failed to kill them directly, they set about attempting to do so by breaking their families, by arresting them for nothing, by denying them education, by trying (with my husband) to have him break laws so he could be jailed for a lengthy period.  His family's experience is not unique.  A few of his classmates (purposely put into his orbit) came from prominent families as well.  One was the great grandson of the Tsar's most trusted generals.  His family was allowed to emigrate to Kyiv in the late 1960's, after being in Siberia since 1919.  My husband didn't know why the boy was so persecuted by teachers in school until he read about his family here.  Another was the great granddaughter of another prominent nobleman, also allowed to move to Kyiv from Siberia.  It was no accident they were placed in my husband's school class.  All of these individuals had no hope of a higher education.

So, anyone who is now university educated pretty much came from that "working class" background.  Education really is irrelevant.  Their attitudes are still formed by the former Soviet Union.

Now, what Jumper means is a certain mentality, which is prominent in very many former Soviet cities.  It really has little to do with education.


I would hazard a guess if you asked what your wife's grandparents, or great grandparents, or great great grandparents did, they were probably either peasants or what the Bolsheviks would describe as "working class".

Boethius now you're getting into the difference between the meaning of "working class" in Russia and the US. Since Jumper's American I figure he's using the American meaning - "the social group consisting of people who are employed for wages, especially in manual or industrial work" (from Wikipedia).

If you want to talk about the Soviet meaning of "working class" and the Bolsheviks that's entirely different and probably a thread on its own. Even today in Russia some Russians my wife's age and older can spend the entire evening drinking and talking about the Bolsheviks and the Revolution. I swear there must have been required university courses on this to hear them go on and on about it.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 11:54:02 PM
No, from what he was posting, I believe Jumper was referring to the Ukrainian working class, and their understanding of that term.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 23, 2018, 12:35:36 AM
Firstly, I'm not rich ....

Guys don't believe a word of what he says, Mobers is a little Irish Leprechaun, it you see him thwack the bugger and a load of gold will fall out of his pockets :D he's filthy rich! Make sure not to touch his lucky charms though ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 23, 2018, 01:02:54 AM
Trench what's the obsession with money and you man, did you grow up poor?   Every recent post you do is all about money. telling Kyn not to send it to girls, presuming who's rich or not, capital gains etc....

you head ain't in the right space man. you worried about your finances too much.  I have close relatives like that and it gets annoying as hell.  Counting every penny.  That's why you don't want a girl to make more than you as she'll just leave you.

Did it not occur to you that women can be the breadwinner in the West. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 23, 2018, 01:13:15 AM
IF you are earning what you claim ... ( I seriously question the veracity of most of what you post - I believe you are bored and need something to keep you busy ) you cannot afford to be in this endeavour

From TC's posts, and his overall attitude, I think he is employed on a flexible contract with variable hours. Consequently, he has a low income, and does not earn enough to be involved in this endeavour. This is why I keep bringing up the income rules for the spouse visa.

He probably sits at home waiting to be called into work that day, and so either fantasizes on RWD or watches 'Homes under the Hammer' on TV.  This is where he gets the idea of being a property developer, and becoming as rich as a Leprechaun (sorry msbob).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 23, 2018, 01:17:08 AM
Trench what's your job or line of work anyways? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 23, 2018, 01:28:57 AM
there's so many Russians in London now, just find one there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 23, 2018, 01:48:16 AM
Guys don't believe a word of what he says, Mobers is a little Irish Leprechaun, it you see him thwack the bugger and a load of gold will fall out of his pockets :D he's filthy rich! Make sure not to touch his lucky charms though ;D


Nice deflection - this thread is about you.... your attempts at FSU dating

My financial affairs have been stated ... It is not relevant whether Trench believes  - or not.  It is just another example of Trench not paying attention to what REALLY matters ..sorting himself out and stopping making 'excuses'

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 23, 2018, 04:54:16 AM
Thought you would enjoy that one Mobers :D

Well Sting I know you have brought up about Russians in London before. Well maybe I will try it if this present attempt is not fruitful. I think as said before it is likely to not turn up a lot because it's a case if getting to meet them in the first place and finding one with Chemistry. Overall there is a situation of any attactive or decent ones being unindated by guys. Even if this happens I their own country my status as a western guy apparently will trump a lot of the competition so I may just get a look in whereas in London perhaps not so.

After all why don't all UK guys that go looking for a FSW not just look in London if it is that easy. Like I say I will give it a go, but don't fancy my chances. I welcome your suggestion anyway Sting, who knows if it did go that way in the crazyness that us life it might actually work :)

Well Mobees,  I WILL take you up on what you say :D let's say we leave this thread for a bit then and continue on my 'FSU dating plans for 2018' thread, so no excuses ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 23, 2018, 05:10:55 PM
Thought you would enjoy that one Mobers :D

Well Sting I know you have brought up about Russians in London before. Well maybe I will try it if this present attempt is not fruitful. I think as said before it is likely to not turn up a lot because it's a case if getting to meet them in the first place and finding one with Chemistry. Overall there is a situation of any attactive or decent ones being unindated by guys. Even if this happens I their own country my status as a western guy apparently will trump a lot of the competition so I may just get a look in whereas in London perhaps not so.

After all why don't all UK guys that go looking for a FSW not just look in London if it is that easy. Like I say I will give it a go, but don't fancy my chances. I welcome your suggestion anyway Sting, who knows if it did go that way in the crazyness that us life it might actually work :)

Well Mobees,  I WILL take you up on what you say :D let's say we leave this thread for a bit then and continue on my 'FSU dating plans for 2018' thread, so no excuses ;)

Please can't you just get a goldfish?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on May 23, 2018, 05:17:39 PM
Please can't you just get a goldfish?

.....or another option  ;)

http://myrealdolls.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyfyC0Iid2wIVQ4ePCh0lGgCaEAAYASAAEgJgW_D_BwE
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 24, 2018, 12:41:41 AM
As for 'Russians' in London

They fall into three categories:

1/ They are wealthy and live a lifestyle most of us cannot match or are divorced - have residency - and don't need a passport / 'white knight' 

2/ They aren't 'Russian' - but ethnic Russian ( Lit, LV, EST) and don't need a passport or a 'white knight' to 'save' them

3/ They aren't Russian ( UKrainian, etc., ) and are here illegally or overstaying - they MIGHT seek a 'white knight' and passport ... 

Don't think 1 or 2  will be interested and you would run a mile from 3
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 24, 2018, 07:25:28 AM
As for 'Russians' in London

They fall into three categories:

1/ They are wealthy and live a lifestyle most of us cannot match or are divorced - have residency - and don't need a passport / 'white knight' 

2/ They aren't 'Russian' - but ethnic Russian ( Lit, LV, EST) and don't need a passport or a 'white knight' to 'save' them

3/ They aren't Russian ( UKrainian, etc., ) and are here illegally or overstaying - they MIGHT seek a 'white knight' and passport ... 

Don't think 1 or 2  will be interested and you would run a mile from 3

Thanks Mobers, think you are right here, thought it would pretty much be a no-go. Seems like its just the easy answer that would probably turn out to be not so easy. Thought that it would be better to accept Sting's point and have someone else explain it seeing as he keeps bringing it up and will not accept any answer I give him on it as to why they are generally a no-go option.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 24, 2018, 08:20:54 AM
Well Kyn, not meaning to pick apart matters, I think it seems like most women in the FSU dating scene seem to come with at least one caveat, pitfall, call it what you will.

Compared to your list  of failings- I'm sure they are perfectly normal - in comparison
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 24, 2018, 08:43:24 AM
I always find the taxi guys in an airport a real pain, the 'unofficial taxi' ones more so. I usually ignore them and wave them away and either find alternatives or if I have none negotiate when I'm ready. When in Moscow last year for the first time I went Aeroexpress both ways, 500 roubles each way if I recall correct.



When were you  ACTUALLY there? When did you use the aeroexpress? I ask as the prices changed, recently - I think you are quoting the NEW prices from the websites.."as I recall" ... hmm...

At Moscow airports the official taxi firms have badges and get arsy if a non approved seller hangs around

Lastly, if you read folks TRs you'd KNOW that it was suggested to download the yandex taxi app - used to be uber in Russia - FAR cheaper than the airport pundits that wait you as you emerge in arrivals

Just in case others doubt my wondering about your 'recollection'  I found one of the price increases from 2015, they were further increased recently - I recall as I really WAS there and used the service

They went up from 400 to 450 each way in June 2015....  Hopefully, someone can tell us ( exactly ) when they went up to 500 / 1000 ( return)




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 24, 2018, 08:54:59 AM
Trench,

I don’t understand why it’s so hard for you to get dates where you are?
are you living now in the area you grew up in?
why aren’t your friends/relatives etc fixing you up with someone*?

if you live in some place with a low population density, maybe consider commuting to meet someone, UK has great public transport, I used to take trains/busses all the time, and it was always great!

seriously, get some kind of “interesting hobby” and find some “interest group” for that hobby in the closest big city to you and start connecting to and meeting people

is this your problem where you are now?
social isolation?

*when I came home to visit my parents from college (to do laundry) my mom was always trying to fix me up with her friend’s dateless daughters, sometimes there was even $10 thrown in, which usually meant that my blind date would be overweight somewhat (but might otherwise be pleasant)

the common thing with all these girls was that they were all so grateful to be taken out and shown a good time, that they would do sexually whatever I wanted
and the next day it was back to school for me...

ahhh, goood times

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 24, 2018, 10:57:54 AM
Trench,

I don’t understand why it’s so hard for you to get dates where you are?
are you living now in the area you grew up in?
why aren’t your friends/relatives etc fixing you up with someone*?

if you live in some place with a low population density, maybe consider commuting to meet someone, UK has great public transport, I used to take trains/busses all the time, and it was always great!

seriously, get some kind of “interesting hobby” and find some “interest group” for that hobby in the closest big city to you and start connecting to and meeting people

is this your problem where you are now?
social isolation?

*when I came home to visit my parents from college (to do laundry) my mom was always trying to fix me up with her friend’s dateless daughters, sometimes there was even $10 thrown in, which usually meant that my blind date would be overweight somewhat (but might otherwise be pleasant)

the common thing with all these girls was that they were all so grateful to be taken out and shown a good time, that they would do sexually whatever I wanted
and the next day it was back to school for me...

ahhh, goood times

My brother said the same thing the other day when I was chatting in the pub with him about joining some groups, but I've been there, done that, and know its real hit & miss with doing that, more often miss. Social group stuff sems to come with the following problems:

- Stuff like Yoga - good for women but hard getting to talk to, they nearly all quickly enter & finish in silence, lol. Fitness/Sport classes largely similar, I mean if you're luck is in maybe :-\

- Adult Education classes - talent varies depending on what you do, but assuming you avoid all the old granny/old Mum's filled classes the few girls turn up usually have bf's or just seem uninterested. Remember these groups are not large.

- Short Further Education College courses - not bad if you can find the time, will likely be half men, half women ish depending on the course - depends on if there is someone there you hit it off with & being able to team up with her on learning rather than it get in the way in a quiet study lesson environment. Some guys just turn up for the first class or two and if no talent then leave, maybe women do also, lol.

- Uni courses - well a bit beyond my prime on these now adays, some guys just go to uni to meet any talent they may be present. Again can be hit and miss on the right girl being present and even if she is may already have a bf, be unindated with guys queuing up for her. Loads of competition form other guys, in crowd type guys who think the dogs bollocks of themselves. Possible to quit course in the first few days before registration & fees, otherwise could get expensive.


Anyway, we were discussing it in relation to another guys on his other half's side of the family who has just been ditched by his girl who is off to uni and I think will very much struggle to get another gf due to his prospects being in decline, remote location and probably a bit of and average joe type character like most of us.

Few of my family know of any unattached girls and I rarely hear them speak of many, one girl my sister knows & I've seen her is vastly overweight, so a no-go for me.

Other than social groups there are:

- Speed dating nights - you meet about 20 odd women a night, some of them not bad, but nearly all the guys that go get a big fat 'zero' from all the girls. They basically want a guy who ticks boxes from real social party type guy to real wealthy guy. Been four times, an utterly pointless exercise.

- Match nights - not quite as bad as speed dating nights but still bad enough. You get people of all ages up to old grandpa's and grannies. Main issue is you get a 'load' of young guys along who far outnumber the women of any age with only the real old ones perhaps being the exception. So the odd few hottish women walk in and they know they can hold out to see what the offering is never mind even having to think they have to go for any of the offering.

- Plenty of Fish & Match, etc dating website - well welcome to lonely and tiresome nights of pounding away on the keyboard to no avail. Some profiles are of course fake and on Match some of the women are not paid up members, probably even more so than the men. Quantity of competition from other men is high here, and quality of women all too often low - think those women with mental health problems, the overweight and unattractive, character flaws and basically all the left overs. If your luck is in you might get a divorcee or a girl out of an LTR who doesn't have too big a set of issues. Some of these girls even if you get them come up are undateble, they mess around with loads of guys as normally no guys would be interested, or they just plain mess you around. That's if you even get to meet with any of them as few do its a real raffle. I met with one girl that actually contacted me, she was actually ok, but there was no chemistry, she was kind of shy but could tell just not into me, nice enough person though. For all the rest of my keyboard mailings though like many guys on there I got no interest. These dating sites heavily favour the women, they can meet men in the quantity required, few men can meet women in the quantity often needed on these sites.


Other than that there is just out and about and work both of which are random. Out and about is usually when shopping and its hard to chat up someone you don't know without being seen as a weirdo or being real awkward and probably putting a woman off in the process. Plus you never got any inkling if they are single (few of the pretty ones are, even many of the average ones aren't). Also, age is not always easy to ascertain or they just look a bit youngish - here of course its not the FSU and although times have changed it is still seen as very strange if there is a big age gap, embarrassing even. Older couple probably ok but a guy of 40 with a girl in her late teens/early twenties, even mid twenties will not be looked upon well if not by the girl then by her parents, etc - so potentially embarrassing.


So there we have it, I've tried pretty much all of it and many other guys in my situation I know have done. End of the day there is usually so much more go in the FSU. I've just joined up to dm notify and within about a 12 hour period received 9 letters just from my profile being visible on the search engine before I got around to hiding my profile - I haven't even gotten around to messaging anyone on there! lol if I do indeed decide to message any. That type of response I would not get anywhere close to in the UK. In the UK compared to the FSU I am nowhere near any stage of getting into a serious relationship with a girl compared to FSU dating where much more rapid progress can be made. Many guys in the UK are in the same boat as me. It always seems like there are far more dateless men here than women and that's the problem. 

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 24, 2018, 11:13:27 AM
Thanks Mobers, think you are right here, thought it would pretty much be a no-go. Seems like its just the easy answer that would probably turn out to be not so easy. Thought that it would be better to accept Sting's point and have someone else explain it seeing as he keeps bringing it up and will not accept any answer I give him on it as to why they are generally a no-go option.

Well if you are over 50 then that's probably the only Russians he encountered in London.  There are tons of students there short term.  Heck on my flight to Moscow via the UK I was sitting next to a young lady who just finished studying there.  Not all of them are wealthy oligarchs.

And not just Russians, there's tons of Eastern Europeans in London.  Polish, Romanian, Hungarian, Czech.  Go find one.  Dude I lived in London, it's a huge hub for people all over Europe and Asia.  People want to immigrate there.  You are making it seem like it's hard to find a girl there.  You got about 100 nationalities you can pick from.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 24, 2018, 11:18:28 AM


When were you  ACTUALLY there? When did you use the aeroexpress? I ask as the prices changed, recently - I think you are quoting the NEW prices from the websites.."as I recall" ... hmm...

At Moscow airports the official taxi firms have badges and get arsy if a non approved seller hangs around

Lastly, if you read folks TRs you'd KNOW that it was suggested to download the yandex taxi app - used to be uber in Russia - FAR cheaper than the airport pundits that wait you as you emerge in arrivals

Just in case others doubt my wondering about your 'recollection'  I found one of the price increases from 2015, they were further increased recently - I recall as I really WAS there and used the service

They went up from 400 to 450 each way in June 2015....  Hopefully, someone can tell us ( exactly ) when they went up to 500 / 1000 ( return)

Such a stickler for details Mobe, well put it this way I remember putting a 500 rouble note into the machine so if it was not that and instead 450 then near enough that.

I'm sure Yandex is great Mobers but if you are without wi-fi then it will be useless i.e without a Russian sim card and nowhere obvious to get a wi-fi signal or people to ask.

Now given the situation Kyn got himself into with traffic jams in Moscow and you arguing with me about taxi being better than areoexpress/underground ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 24, 2018, 04:04:34 PM
Such a stickler for details Mobe, well put it this way I remember putting a 500 rouble note into the machine so if it was not that and instead 450 then near enough that.

I'm sure Yandex is great Mobers but if you are without wi-fi then it will be useless i.e without a Russian sim card and nowhere obvious to get a wi-fi signal or people to ask.

Another example of a hmm - can you ACTUALLY have been to a Moscow airport?

Wifi is FREE and all you have to do is confirm your mob tel number by receiving an sms code and entering it ...  You don't NEED a RU sim card - but if that was your 'issue' then all Moscow airports have places selling Beeline, MTS, Megafon..  on arrival

Now given the situation Kyn got himself into with traffic jams in Moscow and you arguing with me about taxi being better than areoexpress/underground ;)

Depends on the time of day ...  I sent SC in a yandex taxi from DME to SVO - I was flying on to MAN via Brussels from Sochi and she was going to Thailand with another lady - the price was 1500R - so cheaper than 2 x 2x 500's plus a metro ride between two stations.

Unlike you - I DO know what I'm talking about re Moscow airports...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 24, 2018, 06:36:30 PM
Another example of a hmm - can you ACTUALLY have been to a Moscow airport?

Wifi is FREE and all you have to do is confirm your mob tel number by receiving an sms code and entering it ...  You don't NEED a RU sim card - but if that was your 'issue' then all Moscow airports have places selling Beeline, MTS, Megafon..  on arrival

Depends on the time of day ...  I sent SC in a yandex taxi from DME to SVO - I was flying on to MAN via Brussels from Sochi and she was going to Thailand with another lady - the price was 1500R - so cheaper than 2 x 2x 500's plus a metro ride between two stations.

Unlike you - I DO know what I'm talking about re Moscow airports...

I was really talking about wi-fi at the train station in Moscow in my instance. Sure, most airports have free wifi but not all are easy to get onto, depends on browser, etc not usually what you want after getting of flight and needing to get somewhere quick. Some of these taxi apps depend on when one of their taxi's can get to you anyway.

If there is more than one of you sure taxi can work out fine, but this was not the case here.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 24, 2018, 10:40:09 PM
Even if one - if the time is right - you'd rather take two trains and possible two metros to 'save' 300-400 roubles crossing between two Moscow airports with a case ? ;)


Yup..that would be Trench

May be I am 'daft' but keeping in comms and getting a local SIM is the first thing I do in a new country - even if the sim might cost a little more.

Do you ALWAYS make excuses ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 25, 2018, 08:56:56 AM
Even if one - if the time is right - you'd rather take two trains and possible two metros to 'save' 300-400 roubles crossing between two Moscow airports with a case ? ;)


Yup..that would be Trench

May be I am 'daft' but keeping in comms and getting a local SIM is the first thing I do in a new country - even if the sim might cost a little more.

Do you ALWAYS make excuses ?

Yep always worth saving a few quid or roubles :D

Well yes with hindsight a local sim is a good move but to those of us that are not intrepid explorers these things aren't always apparent. When I first went to Kiev a couple of years back I had no idea that my mobile network would work over there, if a sim/Ukrainian network would even work on my phone, what to get, etc. The whole place was alien to me and I wasn't even sure if people spoke much English. Add to that a load if other things to think of and it's not always as easy a situation as it sounds. Fortunately the hotel had the standard free wifi and I could get messages through WhatsApp.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 25, 2018, 09:25:33 AM
"getting a local SIM is the first thing I do in a new country"

totally agree, I even have my own little custom SIM extractor
I thought everyone was familiar with pre-paid SIM in Europe
even my teens are telling me to get ORANGE sim cards in Amsterdam
pre-paid SIM used to be the norm in Ukraine
every marketplace will have a store selling them

yahachoo kopeet sim card
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 26, 2018, 04:30:16 AM
...Well yes with hindsight a local sim is a good move but to those of us that are not intrepid explorers these things aren't always apparent.

There speaks an intrepid Brit to whom a journey to the next village is the biggest adventure he will have all week!

When I first went to Kiev a couple of years back I had no idea that my mobile network would work over there, if a sim/Ukrainian network would even work on my phone, what to get, etc. The whole place was alien to me and I wasn't even sure if people spoke much English.

:cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

You spend hours and hours and hours on the internet every day, and you've never heard of Google?  You could get answers to all of those questions in just a few minutes if you simply bothered.  It's like your idea of winging it by ONLY meeting women on your "short" list in cafes or on the street once you're there, rather than contacting them and using a little bit of your valuable time doing some simple research at home before you go.

Add to that a load if other things to think of and it's not always as easy a situation as it sounds. Fortunately the hotel had the standard free wifi and I could get messages through WhatsApp.

If you had bothered to ask the staff (at least some of whom surely spoke English) you would have been directed to the appropriate place and been given all the communications gear you needed.  There is (or was when I was there) a superb phone store in the underground plaza at the Maidan, which will sell you any sort of phone or SIM card, telling you which one is best for what you want AND setting it all up for you in English!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 26, 2018, 06:04:41 AM
There speaks an intrepid Brit to whom a journey to the next village is the biggest adventure he will have all week!

You spend hours and hours and hours on the internet every day, and you've never heard of Google?


I think leaving his UK town is an adventure for Trench. He complains that going to London is too far lol. 

Trench learn what LTE, 4G and dual SIM means.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 26, 2018, 09:44:27 AM
when I spent summers in Rochdale I think it took about 3 hours by Train to Picadilly
so Trench could leave early in the AM and catch the late train back home and be in London for a day

did you ever do this Trench?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 26, 2018, 09:53:31 AM


Well yes with hindsight a local sim is a good move but to those of us that are not intrepid explorers these things aren't always apparent. When I first went to Kiev a couple of years back I had no idea that my mobile network would work over there, if a sim/Ukrainian network would even work on my phone, what to get, etc. The whole place was alien to me and I wasn't even sure if people spoke much English. Add to that a load if other things to think of and it's not always as easy a situation as it sounds. Fortunately the hotel had the standard free wifi and I could get messages through WhatsApp.

I traveled, yesterday  - knowing that my UK and Cyprus sims would not work in Turkey for a few hours ...  the airport wifi was 'free' if spending more than 25TL - less than five pounds ( 6 Euro)  on food ... but when they scanned my boarding card to give me a code... it didn't work ((

I paid 4 Euro for shyte internet

If one is going to be travelling from the airport to a hotel - it is daft to  not be in comms - as whatsapp allows the known - foreign number - to continue to work - if you swap sims ..

The wise FSU traveller buys a twin sim phone ;)..or takes a MiFi data 'modem' - to allow the creation of a portable wifi hotspot - using a local data sim


Then your laptop / phone carries on working and no need to swap sims



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 26, 2018, 09:56:33 AM
. . . I've just joined up to dm notify and within about a 12 hour period received 9 letters just from my profile being visible on the search engine before I got around to hiding my profile - I haven't even gotten around to messaging anyone on there! lol if I do indeed decide to message any. That type of response I would not get anywhere close to in the UK. In the UK compared to the FSU I am nowhere near any stage of getting into a serious relationship with a girl compared to FSU dating where much more rapid progress can be made. Many guys in the UK are in the same boat as me. It always seems like there are far more dateless men here than women and that's the problem.

I am curious and amused why you have not bothered to reply to 9 letters?

Also be sure that available women in the UK exceed men by a factor of 1.2 I have heard elsewhere (Derby) it is closer to 1.8. So please share your excuses.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on May 26, 2018, 10:18:13 AM
I am curious and amused why you have not bothered to reply to 9 letters?

Also be sure that available women in the UK exceed men by a factor of 1.2 I have heard elsewhere (Derby) it is closer to 1.8. So please share your excuses.

That was by far the most stupid question anyone asked Trench, he received the letters but he has not paid to read them of course, that would involve spending money.. and if there is one thing we know about poor Trenchy is that this is something he wont do...period!

compare that to spending a couple of weeks in Ukraine and believing he will score with the local ladies just by chatting them up on the spot  :cheesy:

a foreigner, without any understanding of the language or culture, and with zero social skills and a very misogynist view on women, and outspoken condescending view on the country itself he is visiting..

this is a farce almost not worthy of comments anymore...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 26, 2018, 11:25:25 AM
I am curious and amused why you have not bothered to reply to 9 letters?

Also be sure that available women in the UK exceed men by a factor of 1.2 I have heard elsewhere (Derby) it is closer to 1.8. So please share your excuses.

Where the 'eck are you sourcing your data, BdhvA?  The ration ( 2016) was 33:34 men to women ... nowhere near  20 percent

You are confusing Derby with Nottingham - that's like confusing Eindoven with Venlo ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 26, 2018, 11:44:21 AM
I am curious and amused why you have not bothered to reply to 9 letters?

TC. From my own experiences, the FSU women are more serious in their dating intentions than British women. I had intensive correspondence with several women in the month before my first visit to Ukraine. You soon discover a lot about each other, as these women are mostly serious in their search. My first trip did not go to plan, but at least I did meet the lady who is now my wife.

These women are not interested in time wasters, or men who are Scrooge-like in their attitude to paying €64.90 for a 3 months online membership plan. Spend the money, and start corresponding with them. These women are potentially interested in you, and would like to know more about you. Assuming you have one, how close are they to your list of partner attributes? Have you got some pro-forma letters written in advance? It would be more beneficial for your happiness than posting on RWD!

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 26, 2018, 12:21:29 PM
I traveled, yesterday  - knowing that my UK and Cyprus sims would not work in Turkey for a few hours ...  the airport wifi was 'free' if spending more than 25TL - less than five pounds ( 6 Euro)  on food ... but when they scanned my boarding card to give me a code... it didn't work ((

I paid 4 Euro for shyte internet

If one is going to be travelling from the airport to a hotel - it is daft to  not be in comms - as whatsapp allows the known - foreign number - to continue to work - if you swap sims ..

The wise FSU traveller buys a twin sim phone ;)..or takes a MiFi data 'modem' - to allow the creation of a portable wifi hotspot - using a local data sim


Then your laptop / phone carries on working and no need to swap sims

Most twin mobiles at the moment can only take two sins at the same time by putting one in the sd card slot - then you have nowhere to store your photos or use all apps until you replace it. In which case you might as well just have a single sim phone and switch just the sim over if its a case of switching sim with sd card as in duel sim.

Like the point I was making in Kyn trip report which you've just proved here, internet at airport cannot always be relied upon to make travel arrangements off or necessarily anything else. Not what you need after getting off a flight. I find that Google Chrome blocks a lot of them anyway so use Firefox in most airports now.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 26, 2018, 12:29:26 PM
That was by far the most stupid question anyone asked Trench, he received the letters but he has not paid to read them of course, that would involve spending money.. and if there is one thing we know about poor Trenchy is that this is something he wont do...period!

No I have not read them, they are from all over the FSU. That is why usually I try to hide my profile on dating sites to begin with. I don't want to end up just anywhere on a mad goose chase after one woman. I know now I can get the interest, what I need to do is meet the numbers of women in an organised way to try and find one with good chemistry with me. I do of course try to save money where I see I need not spend it but can still get the results.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 26, 2018, 01:12:20 PM
These women are not interested in time wasters, or men who are Scrooge-like in their attitude to paying €64.90 for a 3 months online membership plan. Spend the money, and start corresponding with them. These women are potentially interested in you, and would like to know more about you. Assuming you have one, how close are they to your list of partner attributes? Have you got some pro-forma letters written in advance? It would be more beneficial for your happiness than posting on RWD!

When I'm sure of a woman I will do whatever I need to be with her in a decent financial situation. I know some of these women will be potentially into me for legit reasons but as just said need to find the 'one' and I don't see going out after random women the best way around that. I have learnt a lot from RWD which I would have been in the dark about. A lot of this stuff if I didn't know about it could mess up a good FSW relationship. Others have been helpful in hopefully improving my search. Don't worry I'm making sure at the moment that I put decent time into my search so I shouldn't be all at sea out there. I'm optomistic this time, I know I am nothe assured of anything and it can all fall flat but I think I could do ok if I get on a good run.

Plus it must be added that I've had a couple of experiences out there with the women I met that were quite difficult to work out what was going on. The last girl I have talked about a lot here and the issues. Even going back to the first girl though it was strange as we seemed to get on and there were a few positive signs bur they conflicted with lack of affection putting me in a weird place of not knowing where I stood. Anyway, I'm hoping this time will be much more straight forward :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 26, 2018, 01:37:33 PM
when you going again Trench? 

you keep talking about chemistry dude but it takes time. sure you can meet a girl and hit it off right away but she may also be reserved for a while before opening up.
Trying to meet 10 girls in 2 weeks ain't gonna help.

You speak no Russian so that is a huge disadvantage.  Most girls from smaller towns tend to have worse English.  Not always, as I met some who were fluent but in general.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 26, 2018, 02:31:00 PM
when you going again Trench? 

you keep talking about chemistry dude but it takes time. sure you can meet a girl and hit it off right away but she may also be reserved for a while before opening up.
Trying to meet 10 girls in 2 weeks ain't gonna help.

You speak no Russian so that is a huge disadvantage.  Most girls from smaller towns tend to have worse English.  Not always, as I met some who were fluent but in general.

I will be going soonish. Reserved girls can be a pain as it's a case of are they reserved/conservative/moralistic or are they just nor into you. I tend to take if there is not the quick flirty eye movements and feeling of electricity then there's no chemistry. I get the impression that there are probably many FSW that are left single because they have it drilled into them to act moralistic etc or are naturally that way.

I don't think they realise that the high moralistic standards they prize so highly is what is screwing up their chances. For some reason they seem to think the guy should stay frigid around them for god knows how long till the moment of worthyness is obtained. I don't have time to play games where I don't know where I stand or how long I play for or don't know what I need do. Some say it is best to make a move on these moralistic girls but I am not for forcing myself on anyone. If they are not showing me interest then they are not interested is the way I take it and I move on.

Well Lviv does not seem too bad, looks like quote a few girls speak English, maybe as near Poland & EU, plus being a more European City in terms of architecture. I know a few words of Russian but to be honest it's probably so bad sounding that I would be better using the translator app on my phone. I think it just makes a horrible conversation of it me trying to shout out the odd no doubt badly pronounced Russian word to try to make her understand. To my mind if a girl gets peed of with the translator app then she is probably not interested as not the want to make it worK there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on May 26, 2018, 02:42:22 PM
Even going back to the first girl though it was strange as we seemed to get on and there were a few positive signs bur they conflicted with lack of affection putting me in a weird place of not knowing where I stood.

She was probably waiting for you to make the first move. Did you try to touch her (hold hands/put arm round her), or attempt to kiss her? I remember being indecisive about kissing my wife for the first time. We were looking into each other's eyes, and then she just took the initiative and kissed me. The ice was broken on our second day together! My wife is a very modern woman and she was not waiting for me to prove that I was a 'real man'. That concept is not in her vocabulary (thank goodness).

Try not to be too rigid in your approach. FSU women are very different from British women, and are far more feminine in their character. That is what has always appealed to me about FSU dating. Good luck in your search.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 26, 2018, 02:43:15 PM
Reserved girls can be a pain as it's a case of are they reserved/conservative/moralistic or are they just nor into you. I tend to take if there is not the quick flirty eye movements and feeling of electricity then there's no chemistry. I get the impression that there are probably many FSW that are left single because they have it drilled into them to act moralistic etc or are naturally that way.

I don't think they realise that the high moralistic standards they prize so highly is what is screwing up their chances. For some reason they seem to think the guy should stay frigid around them for god knows how long till the moment of worthyness is obtained. I don't have time to play games where I don't know where I stand or how long I play for or don't know what I need do. Some say it is best to make a move on these moralistic girls but I am not for forcing myself on anyone. If they are not showing me interest then they are not interested is the way I take it and I move on.

Well Lviv does not seem too bad, looks like quote a few girls speak English, maybe as near Poland & EU, plus being a more European City in terms of architecture. I know a few words of Russian but to be honest it's probably so bad sounding that I would be better using the translator app on my phone. I think it just makes a horrible conversation of it me trying to shout out the odd no doubt badly pronounced Russian word to try to make her understand. To my mind if a girl gets peed of with the translator app then she is probably not interested as not the want to make it worK there.

Proof yet again that you know virtually nothing.  Ukraine and Russia are among the least moralistic, even the least moral societies, I have ever encountered.  That is what a socialist society in which religion was practically prohibited, and where informing on others for your own material benefit was encouraged, creates.  As for sexuality, it is not repressed.  But, you are a foreigner.  Foreigners come to Ukraine for less than noble purposes.  So you are always going to be suspect.


You also haven't done your homework.  On the streets of L'viv, everyone speaks Ukrainian, not Russian.  L'viv is the epicentre of Ukrainian nationalism.  As a foreigner, they will indulge your Russian, but really, you are out to lunch again.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 26, 2018, 03:09:50 PM
I've looked up Ukrainian on my 'Before you know it' learning language app and for the most part the two seem to have identical words - they seem no real different to me. If girl asks me 'are you speaking Russian?' I will just reply 'no Ukrainian' :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 26, 2018, 03:12:41 PM
I suggest the first thing you tell any woman you meet is that there is no difference between Ukrainian and Russian, therefore, you see no purpose in learning any Ukrainian.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 26, 2018, 03:22:27 PM
I suggest the first thing you tell any woman you meet is that there is no difference between Ukrainian and Russian, therefore, you see no purpose in learning any Ukrainian.

Then why did you say they talk Ukrainian not Russian if there is no real difference?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 26, 2018, 03:25:24 PM
I didn’t say there was no difference. You did.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 26, 2018, 03:36:52 PM
Then yes I will simply tell them there is no difference since I see none. I see no reason to pick hairs for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 26, 2018, 04:53:03 PM
"Don’t stop there. Let them know since there’s no difference, they should just stop the war and let Moscow rule them again"

and then drop your pants and show them "Peter the Great"



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: myrddin on May 26, 2018, 05:07:10 PM
I've looked up Ukrainian on my 'Before you know it' learning language app and for the most part the two seem to have identical words - they seem no real different to me. If girl asks me 'are you speaking Russian?' I will just reply 'no Ukrainian' :)

 :ROFL:


Of course Ukrainian=Russian.   When two things are the same, people use completely different words for them.


I was in Lviv a few months ago.  I do agree with your assessment that it is a more European city with a rich cultural heritage and some beautiful historical architecture.
 
I suspect you will have ample opportunity to explore that.

But, they say, every pot has a lid.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Sting23 on May 26, 2018, 09:54:53 PM
Trench I gotta feeling this next trip of yours is gonna end bad.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 26, 2018, 11:33:02 PM
Most twin mobiles at the moment can only take two sins at the same time by putting one in the sd card slot - then you have nowhere to store your photos or use all apps until you replace it.

More absolute crap!  My dual SIM card phone has one port which takes BOTH a SIM card and an SD card - but the internal storage is big enough that I would not need to worry about an SD card anyway.  As for storing your photos - how many are YOU likely to take in 10 days while trying to score with 10 different women?  You won't have time to take any!  If you're that worried about storage, take your laptop or an external hard drive and transfer all your photos every day (of course you can leave the ones that you want to impress the women with).  That way you empty the phone's memory for the next lot of photos.

In which case you might as well just have a single sim phone and switch just the sim over if its a case of switching sim with sd card as in duel sim.

If you're going to do it this way you will need two phones anyway, so why not just get a dual SIM card phone?  You can leave your SD card in one slot if you have to, and just swap SIMs around in the other slot.  But, in any case, why are you going to need an SD card while you're away?  Just how many apps are you going to need to use?

Like the point I was making in Kyn trip report which you've just proved here, internet at airport cannot always be relied upon to make travel arrangements off or necessarily anything else. Not what you need after getting off a flight.

Which is why the second thing that you do when you get out of the baggage claim area (the first being getting at least SOME walking-around money) is get yourself a local SIM card.  In Australasia the different mobile operators have separate kiosks at the major airports, the idea being that you've already worked out from their websites which plan from which company will be the best for you, but at DME I only saw one place, which sold packs for all the operators (that may well have changed, since my last trip was nearly eight years ago).

I find that Google Chrome blocks a lot of them anyway so use Firefox in most airports now.

You're obviously looking at dodgy websites!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 27, 2018, 12:59:02 AM
Most twin mobiles at the moment can only take two sins at the same time by putting one in the sd card slot - then you have nowhere to store your photos or use all apps until you replace it. In which case you might as well just have a single sim phone and switch just the sim over if its a case of switching sim with sd card as in duel sim.


1/ Many Dual Sim phone have huge memory built in and if you really were a seasoned traveller - you'd either have a proper camera - and / or have a Cloud account for images / videos..

2/ IF this 'teche excuse' was your 'riposte' then you just aren't clued up ..  You CAN use 2 sims and an SD card - you just need to READ ..and buy your phone in a country that sells dual sim phones - one you regularly go back to ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rENPLzhppiU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rENPLzhppiU)

Do you even know WHY dual sim mobiles are popular in (say) Russia ?

Like the point I was making in Kyn trip report which you've just proved here, internet at airport cannot always be relied upon to make travel arrangements off or necessarily anything else.

So, buying a local sim card - with data - makes more sense ... which is EXACTLY what I suggested ...

If staying at an airport on a layover - you cannot BUY a local sim - as they tend to be sold AFTER you clear passport  control / customs - so buy a daily package  from your home network - which is ultimately what I did (£5)

 It always works out cheaper to get a local sim - if you can

.. Not what you need after getting off a flight. I find that Google Chrome blocks a lot of them anyway so use Firefox in most airports now.

What ARE you talking about ? Google - like Firefox-  is quite configurable.. not that I'd want to use a non secure website. 

I'm beginning to think your daily commute is spent reading other's posts here or other folks travel reports ..    which become 'your own' .WHY ?  Your inane comments on the 'similarities' between Russian and Ukrainian

A language scientist suggests Ukrainian is as similar to Russian as Dutch is to English ;)

The difference in vocabulary ( not Grammar - there are differences, too)   between Ukrainian and Russian languages is 38 lexical edits - it is 37 between Dutch and English - source Kostyntin Tischyenko (Костянтин Тищенко)

It's not that simple - but it's a demonstration that Trench  - once more - is talking out of his backside.

It is pointless you seeking a non English speaking partner ...  I speak FAR more Russian than you and still have days when we have to resort to a translator - lest we scream in frustration to be understood

Better you don't even TRY to speak Russian in Lviv - stick to your version of English








Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 27, 2018, 06:43:42 AM
Trench Coat, I have had a twin SIM splashed Apple OS. It worked OK but my expirence is similiar to an official twin SIM foon is the same as Anotherkiwi and Moby.

And Trench can you answer the question that Moby posed, why do many people in the fSU have dual sim foons?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 27, 2018, 11:38:17 AM
Trench Coat, I have had a twin SIM splashed Apple OS. It worked OK but my expirence is similiar to an official twin SIM foon is the same as Anotherkiwi and Moby.

And Trench can you answer the question that Moby posed, why do many people in the fSU have dual sim foons?

Well, I'm pretty happy with the phone I've got its a Samsung s5 Mini. Cost a couple of hundred or so when I bought it about 18 months ago. I've kind of got it set up nicely with the layout & all the files & info to had I need. Don't really want to spend out again just to get dus sim and perhaps less features in other departments. I haven't really got a problem with swaping sims as I'm not in the FSU loads. The network I am on only serve Europe, i.e the EU and it's nice and cheap for me as only pay £5 a month with enough data allowance to serve my needs. So a pay as you go sim in Ukraine would suit me well.

Now I'm guessing people in the FSU have dual sim so they can still communicate smoothly when they travel between Russia & Ukraine. They only then have to decide whether to speak Russian or Ukrainian, even though they are just the same ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 27, 2018, 02:24:11 PM

Now I'm guessing people in the FSU have dual sim so they can still communicate smoothly when they travel between Russia & Ukraine.


Ukrainians can buy SIM cards that work in almost every country.

http://drimsim.com/ (http://drimsim.com/)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 27, 2018, 02:47:09 PM
Trench Coat, I have had a twin SIM splashed Apple OS. It worked OK but my experience is similar to an official twin SIM foon is the same as Anotherkiwi and Moby.

And Trench can you answer the question that Moby posed, why do many people in the fSU have dual sim foons?

Several reasons for multiple sims in Ukr --the idea that you have sims from the different networks as calls are generally free on the same network is the major one.
The more recent addition of Viber,What'sApp etc has lessened that issue  as they allow (free) calls. I have paid subscriptions on Viber & Skype that allows me to call any numbers at a good rate .

As for phones -- you do not need Apple or Samsung -- there are phones available at extremely competitive prices a fraction of their cost that are near enough just as good .
The market changes have been quite rapid in this area . A decent phone can reduce the need for a computer dramatically.

I have had  multiple sim phones for many years now - and I carry multiple phones. I have one phone that has 4 sims ! I use it for sim cards from different countries .So anyone calling could call/sms  local number anytime .I can see the rise of Viber etc making that less use in the future.

Finally --on sims and internet access etc --if TC spent any time researching here on forum instead of posting his "thinking" he would have read up to date advice I have posted ( & LaMan) repeatedly on the topic-- it has become very simple.The cost of a pre-paid Ukrainian sim is next to nothing-- and $10-$15 plenty for a months calls and data internet access .I pay UAH69 per month and rarely need top up during month.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on May 27, 2018, 06:56:02 PM
TrenchCoat, It seems your heading to L'viv.

For a great croissant and coffee you want to go to Centaur on a corner of the main town square so-called market square.

Museums worth visiting are the Pinzel museum, he was one of the great baroque sculptures. There is the L'viv Art Museum with a great collection of 19th and early 20th century art. And the St. Georges Church Complex is well worth visiting.

All of this and more info can be found on booking.com, trip advisor or wikipedia.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 27, 2018, 10:46:48 PM
So, Trench - I see you got help re my question - indeed - JayH ad it - the networks don't have inclusive calls to other networks- so it is wise tht your g/f and thee have the same network ..

If you are on a VM - you'll need multiple phones - like JayH ;)

Seriously - you need to have their contact details BEFORE you go and make sure you have Viber / Whatsapp, etc.

On a VM - I expect your phone(s) will need to be off more than it is on - what with all those dates ..

Get yourself a MiFi device from Three and a pre-paid data sim and then your internet will work on your UK phone





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 30, 2018, 01:37:04 AM
Well Mobes it looks like Italy moves closer to breaking away from the EU:

Key Italy talks amid fears of snap poll

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44297731

Looks like the Italian President has made a heavy handed attempt interfere in the forming of a coalition government to a more pro-EU government and in doing so has made matters worse for the EU in Italy. Again an attempt by the pro-EU lot to impose their will on the people, lol. Will almost certainly result in a big backlash in any new election making the anti-EU parties even stronger. When that occurs they will be an undeniable force and the Italian President will have to accept their right to form a government and have votes on the Euro and quite possibly membership of the EU as well. We may soon have a companion on our journey to leave the EU :D

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 30, 2018, 01:44:33 AM
Trench

The Italians cannot afford TO leave and would be well advised to watch the UK farce unfold...It's hardly working out as a saving

Voting for parties promising to stuff that cannot be delivered in reality is the reserve of 'populist' and 'socialist' parties...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 30, 2018, 02:10:16 AM
Trench

The Italians cannot afford TO leave and would be well advised to watch the UK farce unfold...It's hardly working out as a saving

Voting for parties promising to stuff that cannot be delivered in reality is the reserve of 'populist' and 'socialist' parties...

Mobe the Italian Socialist party got thrown out of government by the Italian electorate along with its EU puppet PM. At the very least Italy needs to get out of the Euro in order to be able to issue more of its own currency to pay off its burdensome debt until then it's economy will remain in the doldrums.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 30, 2018, 02:13:12 AM
i guess a default would wipe out Italy's euro debt
no wonder markets are wacky

my dear friend George Soros
told me last week to get out of equities
damn it and things were going so well until this yr

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 30, 2018, 03:11:11 AM
Mobe the Italian Socialist party got thrown out of government by the Italian electorate along with its EU puppet PM. At the very least Italy needs to get out of the Euro in order to be able to issue more of its own currency to pay off its burdensome debt until then it's economy will remain in the doldrums.

I noted you forgot he has been replaced by populists and you didn't offer an 'excuse! for undeliverable promises.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 30, 2018, 03:49:18 AM
i guess a default would wipe out Italy's euro debt
How :o? A debt is a debt and HAS to be repaid to creditors, unless a country wants to sink like Argentina did after defaulting on its bonds - which had to be repaid at least in part eventually to regain a minimum of credit internationally.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 30, 2018, 04:12:57 AM
default is not the best outcome
but debt is swallowing Italy's economy with interest and austerity
in the long term might be the best option

would love to See Italy return to Lire
like the 1958 500 lire piece slightly larger than us quarter

absolute favs of Italian coins
Vittorio Emanuel 1 or 2 Lire with Quadriga on obverse from roughly 1912
all coins from this series are beautiful
except for him!!!

euro coins are awful
who would want to collect these?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on May 30, 2018, 08:17:39 AM
default is not the best outcome
but debt is swallowing Italy's economy with interest and austerity
in the long term might be the best option

would love to See Italy return to Lire
like the 1958 500 lire piece slightly larger than us quarter

absolute favs of Italian coins
Vittorio Emanuel 1 or 2 Lire with Quadriga on obverse from roughly 1912
all coins from this series are beautiful
except for him!!!

euro coins are awful
who would want to collect these?

Actually, a true numismatist collects coins that are no longer in use.  You might want to hang on to those Euro coins.  They might have value as collectors items sooner than you think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 30, 2018, 08:24:50 AM
but they're UGLY!!!!
and bi-metallic!!!!

I like US morgans + double eagles
French and Italian silver coins
some English sovereigns
I have a BUNCH of Russian and German coins to

all going into the "treasure chest" for future grandkids to find
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 30, 2018, 11:09:46 AM
Actually, a true numismatist collects coins that are no longer in use.  You might want to hang on to those Euro coins.  They might have value as collectors items sooner than you think.

'Ri-ight......

You sound like folks from sites who suggest us that the Dollar is on it's way out... They are wishful thinking Kremlin trolls... What is your 'excuse' for posting so daft?....

1/ Euro notes are not country specific

2/ Euro coins might reflect different countries, but if  Italy crashed out, the Euro would endure and the Italian Euro coins would be worth no more than their face value for decades, if ever.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 30, 2018, 11:20:07 AM
"2/ Euro coins might reflect different countries, "

i don't think italian euro coins will ever be valuable
i've been a collector since age 10 when my grandfather gave me a bunch of English pocket change
now THOSE are pennys!!!
Britannia!!!

early 20th century Italian silver coins are some of my favorites
but you can get "junk" lire coins 50 yr old for just a few bucks on ebay

totally missed the Trump Korean coin on the whitehouse gift site shop
that coin will be worth a fortune

the coins will still have face value in other countries

when I used to work in Germany
half the people were from other euro countries
inc UK
such GREAT opportunities for young educated in UK
go to work anywhere in EU
many did
not from UK now
what happens to all those who WERE working/living abroad from UK in EU
home?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 30, 2018, 12:29:57 PM
when I used to work in Germany
half the people were from other euro countries
inc UK
such GREAT opportunities for young educated in UK
go to work anywhere in EU
many did
not from UK now
what happens to all those who WERE working/living abroad from UK in EU
home?

I know in the early-mid nineties in the UK there was a real bad recession and some people went out to Germany to work. Some later had problems in claiming their state pension as while they were out in Germany they missed a number of years of contribution needed to qualify.

Generally though you need to know the language almost fluently for most jobs abroad, plus with the Euro valued at less than the pound you might earn less. It's alright for a bit of fun but think the fad wore off. Anyway, all those currently residing abroad will get permanent residency rights when we leave the EU and if they later want, citizenship.

Generally the EU used to work fine until the Eastern Bloc was admitted since all the original members bar a few such as Greece had comparable economies. Unfortunately instead of structuring the EU to take this into account with a two tier/speed system ego won the day and an awful mess was created. Now the answer of many pro EU politicians is to bury their head in the sand and pretend that mess doesn't exist but unfortunately it does namely mass illegal immigration, Euro currency issues for countries with too much bad debt and over or under supply of labour.

Poland for example was facing an under supply of Labour problem, the answer was to use illegal Ukrainian immigrant Labour - so an illegal solution to the high legal standing the EU likes to think of itself as, lol.

Italy has a big debt, bigger than its GDP and lots of illegal immigrants from North Africa that the EU stops them from deporting - what they are supposed to do with them who knows. If Italy like Poland is able to have a cheaper currency, i.e reintroduce the Lira then a lot of their unemployed/population may travel to stronger currency countries that use the Euro or pound to work, but by then we may thankfully be safeguarded from that by being outside the EU :)

I think they may have a struggle with the EU since I all new members must except the Euro, so can an existing member drop it. Probably another thing the EU will get awkward over probably pushing Italy nearer to leaving the EU too.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on May 30, 2018, 10:52:59 PM
They used to havecdual sim cards as not all friends or family where on the same network and the costs were different when calling out if network.

They mob side,was agency girls had one designated  for their  foreign  contacts...lol

All this talk about tech.
I'm old ,I remember traveling for decades without any of this and no real issues.
Somehow you still got around, met people, caught flights, booked hotels or flats, train tickets..
:)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 31, 2018, 06:15:22 AM
I know in the early-mid nineties in the UK there was a real bad recession and some people went out to Germany to work. Some later had problems in claiming their state pension as while they were out in Germany they missed a number of years of contribution needed to qualify.

Generally though you need to know the language almost fluently for most jobs abroad, plus with the Euro valued at less than the pound you might earn less. It's alright for a bit of fun but think the fad wore off. Anyway, all those currently residing abroad will get permanent residency rights when we leave the EU and if they later want, citizenship.

Generally the EU used to work fine until the Eastern Bloc was admitted since all the original members bar a few such as Greece had comparable economies. Unfortunately instead of structuring the EU to take this into account with a two tier/speed system ego won the day and an awful mess was created. Now the answer of many pro EU politicians is to bury their head in the sand and pretend that mess doesn't exist but unfortunately it does namely mass illegal immigration, Euro currency issues for countries with too much bad debt and over or under supply of labour.

Poland for example was facing an under supply of Labour problem, the answer was to use illegal Ukrainian immigrant Labour - so an illegal solution to the high legal standing the EU likes to think of itself as, lol.

Italy has a big debt, bigger than its GDP and lots of illegal immigrants from North Africa that the EU stops them from deporting - what they are supposed to do with them who knows. If Italy like Poland is able to have a cheaper currency, i.e reintroduce the Lira then a lot of their unemployed/population may travel to stronger currency countries that use the Euro or pound to work, but by then we may thankfully be safeguarded from that by being outside the EU :)

I think they may have a struggle with the EU since I all new members must except the Euro, so can an existing member drop it. Probably another thing the EU will get awkward over probably pushing Italy nearer to leaving the EU too.

I responded to this patent nonsense in a 'new thread' ;) 

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22788
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 05, 2018, 03:05:13 PM
Much of her 'angst' was feeling overwhelmed by the English.  We were in Germany and there was nobody speaking Russian.  I totally empathize with her in a lot of this, but if she wanted it to work, it was not hard to go with the flow.  Perhaps she realized that in USA (as I repeated many times to her) hardly anyone would speak English.  This trip was just a small taste of the completely foreign world she would be agreeing to be in -- and that scared the hell out of her.  Instead of communicating this she lashed out.  She blamed me for every problem, every misunderstanding.

Part of the reason I took the last girl I was with to Cyprus was because of the large use of Russian as well as English. After we had been there a few days she was pleased of it. I thought it would be handy as a way of easing her into a partly English society first. Still she insisted on going to  the UK even though her English is not good. My thoughts are the girl I was with might find the culture shock a bit hard going. Of course it depends on the girl but it looks like yours freaked out and I hear quite a lot do.

Think a lot of FSW like tge play just tend to just view stuff from their side. Im guessing the Soviet period perhaps made this so.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on June 06, 2018, 12:58:31 AM
Part of the reason I took the last girl I was with to Cyprus was because of the large use of Russian as well as English. After we had been there a few days she was pleased of it. I thought it would be handy as a way of easing her into a partly English society first. Still she insisted on going to  the UK even though her English is not good. My thoughts are the girl I was with might find the culture shock a bit hard going. Of course it depends on the girl but it looks like yours freaked out and I hear quite a lot do.

Think a lot of FSW like tge play just tend to just view stuff from their side. Im guessing the Soviet period perhaps made this so.

TC, How do you come to these conclusions? What have you been taking before this post?

My wife and her friends grew up in the Soviet Union, and they do NOT "like tge play just tend to just view stuff from their side [sic]".

My wife and her friends do NOT freak out. These women mostly want to join their husband in his country, and are willing to learn his language and about his culture. If this was your attitude towards the Kherson woman, then she correctly concluded that you were not genuine in your search for a FSU partner.
 

Your Kherson girl wanted to be with a

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 06, 2018, 01:04:38 AM
I'd LOVE to see the end of Blighty's post...!

Trench, as ever ... you proved you DO NOT HAVE A CLUE what a serious FSU lass is looking for - or how to rectify your 'issues' in this non recognition

Your 'conclusions' are WRONG.

Re Cyprus - YES - this is a great place - for a FSU lass who speaks poor /  bad English - there being so many fellow FSU folk - but how does that help you or her with ENGLISH ?   

It's great for a holiday ...

My Russian wife learnt English here - but lept forward in the UK



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on June 06, 2018, 01:24:18 AM
Your Kherson girl wanted to be with a

Sorry about that ....

Your Kherson girl wanted to be with her husband in his country, and have a long lasting relationship. She would have been willing to learn English and understand about our culture. Your attitude is all wrong! You obviously want to keep any future Mrs TC in Ukraine, whatever her own preferences.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 06, 2018, 01:32:50 AM
or Cyprus ... ;)

I shouldn't mock ...as this may be SC's desired place to live .... 

Trench - you could find a lass and move to Paphos ....  There'd be lots of older UK folks on final salary pensions
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 06, 2018, 02:52:40 PM
or Cyprus ... ;)

I shouldn't mock ...as this may be SC's desired place to live .... 

Trench - you could find a lass and move to Paphos ....  There'd be lots of older UK folks on final salary pensions

I actually liked Paphos a lot, it had a lot of charm to the place. Not a lot to do there but could drive out I guess. The old peeps could be a bonus as less competition unless of course girl became attracted to their pensions ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 06, 2018, 03:29:51 PM
Sorry about that ....

Your Kherson girl wanted to be with her husband in his country, and have a long lasting relationship. She would have been willing to learn English and understand about our culture. Your attitude is all wrong! You obviously want to keep any future Mrs TC in Ukraine, whatever her own preferences.

Of course you are right but I had no idea on that at the time, I mean how am I supposed to know. It seemed to make perfect sense at the time. I mean yes I would have been open to her loving in my country as my wife but she wanted to do the whole visa deal just for a visit. A tourist visa is about the same ordeal as a marriage one for the UK. In fact a tourist one would be far more likely to be declined in fact almost certain (even Moby agrees with me on that one ;) ) since she is a young girl in a retail job hence very poor income and so little reason to want to return whether it was done on her income or mine.

Her wanting to go off on a clothes shopping spree all the time for mid range brand clothes kind of put a strain on our relationship I felt I did not need. In fact it brought a lor of distrust into the relationship that made me unsure if she was just using me to buy her stuff. Maybe like the title of the thread I should have taken the warning signs in our first week together that she wanted me to buy me her this stuff. Mistakes were certainly made on my part and a fair few of them which I will hopefully learn from for next time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 06, 2018, 11:41:51 PM
I actually liked Paphos a lot, it had a lot of charm to the place. Not a lot to do there but could drive out I guess. The old peeps could be a bonus as less competition unless of course girl became attracted to their pensions ;D

Hmm, I have no desire to live amongst ex-pats .. trying to make a part of CY like the UK ;)


As for your chasing young tail with no chance to get a UK Visa...  I told you THAT, too ...  BEFORE you took your trip ..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on June 07, 2018, 03:43:58 AM
A tourist visa is about the same ordeal as a marriage one for the UK. In fact a tourist one would be far more likely to be declined in fact almost certain (even Moby agrees with me on that one ;) ) since she is a young girl in a retail job hence very poor income and so little reason to want to return whether it was done on her income or mine.

A tourist visa is much simpler than a spouse visa! The latter is far more complex and requires significant proof about the relationship, proposed accommodation, and sponsor's annual income.

My wife networks with like-minded women who told her that she would never receive a UK visit visa. She accepted this advice, although was upset and disappointed that she could not visit the UK before our marriage. The planning for the spouse visa takes a long time, especially with the preparation for the Life Skills English Test. You need a strong relationship to survive the stresses of separation caused by UK immigration policy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 07, 2018, 03:50:42 AM
Hi Blighty,

I was lucky in that I lived in Cyprus - had an Irish passport and was able to circumvent the need for my ( then ) wife to pass such tests - which she would have failed

Now she has a level 5 tertiary qualification and her English was brought on by study - aiming for various qualifications

I understand the UK immigration laws are designed to stop folks bringing in partners who aren't reasonable at English and wonder at how guys from the UK bother to chase lasses who can't speak the lingo










Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on June 07, 2018, 04:23:07 AM
I understand the UK immigration laws are designed to stop folks bringing in partners who aren't reasonable at English and wonder at how guys from the UK bother to chase lasses who can't speak the lingo

Theresa Mayhem has always wanted to keep non-EEA partners out of the UK, and the English test is just one of the tools used to stop immigration. My wife has a Ukrainian friend denied a UK spouse visa on the basis of insufficient photos in the supporting documents. The immigration forums are full of the dirty tricks used by UKVI to meet their refusal targets.

My wife and I met in Ukraine, and we just clicked with each other. Our view was that the partner is more important than the language skills. The English can be learnt, or in my wife's case re-learnt. Apparently her English was much better when at school (35 years ago) than now. If you have the chemistry (as TC would say) then the cultural/language differences are relatively insignificant.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 07, 2018, 09:04:17 AM
A tourist visa is much simpler than a spouse visa! The latter is far more complex and requires significant proof about the relationship, proposed accommodation, and sponsor's annual income.

My wife networks with like-minded women who told her that she would never receive a UK visit visa. She accepted this advice, although was upset and disappointed that she could not visit the UK before our marriage. The planning for the spouse visa takes a long time, especially with the preparation for the Life Skills English Test. You need a strong relationship to survive the stresses of separation caused by UK immigration policy.

That's was the main reason I suggested Cyprus, I saw that it could be the perfect solution. The UK visiting visa that she would stand no chance of getting would not be an issue as she could easily get into Cyprus. We could then live together for short periods before marriage (spouse visa which she could get). Cyprus has a mix of English and Russian so not overwhelming for either of us - she has apparently only been abroad to one other country and still youngish so it could possibly overwhelm her if she came to the UK. Cyprus also has Greek Orthodox church so though she is only mildly religious again it is closer to her culture. She also likes beaches and unfortunately shopping both of which Cyprus has in abundance with big new quality shopping malls with all the shops she so unfortunately likes ::) but oh no that doesn't suit Madam, lol and more importantly she seems to have no idea as to how she would stand no chance of getting the UK tourist visa.

Cyprus may not be without issue but they can all be gotten around without too much trouble. Her English was coming along quite nicely when in Cyprus, I would say between basic and intermediate. She doesn't understand complex words but she does understand most basic words and can get across her pint in most situations and understand me so long as its just basic words I use even if explaining a more complex problem. Kind of like how you dumb it down a lot to speak to a child so as to not bamboozle them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 07, 2018, 09:37:50 AM
That's was the main reason I suggested Cyprus, I saw that it could be the perfect solution.


And what, pray would you do to earn a crust in Cyprus ? !  :deadhorse:

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 07, 2018, 05:06:34 PM

And what, pray would you do to earn a crust in Cyprus ? !  :deadhorse:

Obviously teach English while photographing his students! Duh!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 08, 2018, 11:24:18 AM
Hmm, I have no desire to live amongst ex-pats .. trying to make a part of CY like the UK ;)


As for your chasing young tail with no chance to get a UK Visa...  I told you THAT, too ...  BEFORE you took your trip ..

A bit above the common herd are we ;D To be honest I didn't mind the English crowding Paphos as didn't seem at all the chavy sort you get out in Spain, i.e the England t-shirt crowd. Most seemed pretty low key and busied themselves on their own matters. I don't think the presence of a few Brits there negatively stood out much at all or even really stood out at all. I see no reason to go all overboard and go all dances with wolves to feel a bit superior ;D I liked Paphos a lot :)

She would be able to get a spouse visa. All I asked for was a bit of flexibility it the lead up to it, i.e where we got to know each other more. How was I supposed to know she would be so against anything else. If she was a bit more reasonable on that then who knows. If I were to go back to her the only recourse I would have if she were still so stubborn would to be to do the visa even knowing it would stand virtually no chance of success just to show her, last time I messaged several months back she just would not accept that she would not get one because apparently her older female friend who also worked in retail had done but as you know circumstances vary so could me more to it than that assuming she is being straight up of course.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on June 08, 2018, 11:38:23 AM
There is a long Tripadvisor thread on Ukrainians failing to get UK Visitor visas ...

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g294473-i3662-k10096309-o40-British_visas_For_Ukrainian_citizens-Ukraine.html

Useful ammunition for you!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 08, 2018, 02:34:47 PM
A bit above the common herd are we ;D

No...I've seen the ex-pat scene ... too much boozing ...'Middle class; or not...I honestly prefer the company of locals of Russian speakers - more dinner parties than piss ups in sports bars

She would be able to get a spouse visa. All I asked for was a bit of flexibility it the lead up to it, i.e where we got to know each other more. How was I supposed to know she would be so against anything else. If she was a bit more reasonable on that then who knows. If I were to go back to her the only recourse I would have if she were still so stubborn would to be to do the visa even knowing it would stand virtually no chance of success just to show her, last time I messaged several months back she just would not accept that she would not get one because apparently her older female friend who also worked in retail had done but as you know circumstances vary so could me more to it than that assuming she is being straight up of course.

Would she ?  From how you described the lass - she couldn't speak enough English and would certainly not pass the 'knowledge of UK test' - which you'd fail...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on June 09, 2018, 12:25:17 AM
Would she ?  From how you described the lass - she couldn't speak enough English and would certainly not pass the 'knowledge of UK test' - which you'd fail...

Why the negativity? The final B1 English test is not too difficult, and should be easily passed after 5 years. The 'Life in the UK Test' after 5 years simply requires some swotting and prior practice tests. This positivity requires the woman to be allowed to integrate into UK society rather than held under 'house arrest'. My wife's plan is to spend 5 years learning about the UK's history, culture, etc whilst fully integrating into UK society. She is not going fail with such a positive attitude and my full support.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 09, 2018, 04:29:25 AM
Why the negativity? The final B1 English test is not too difficult, and should be easily passed after 5 years. The 'Life in the UK Test' after 5 years simply requires some swotting and prior practice tests. This positivity requires the woman to be allowed to integrate into UK society rather than held under 'house arrest'. My wife's plan is to spend 5 years learning about the UK's history, culture, etc whilst fully integrating into UK society. She is not going fail with such a positive attitude and my full support.

Hi Blighty

I'm not sure I'd use the 'negative' adjective - pragmatism was surely be more appropriate ;)

To explain to others - just to get in to the UK - Mrs potential test-out Mr Trench - in addition to him satisfying the UK immigration authorities must prove a certain level of English

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8J26zrLeKM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8J26zrLeKM)

The test must be taken in the ladies home country at an approved centre.

I remember my Wife - having been in the UK a year - failing such a test ( she didn't need to be tested as she came in via an EU route ) and the tears and knocking of confidence

This is not something you want your partner to experience on their own



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on June 09, 2018, 05:53:48 AM
To explain to others - just to get in to the UK - Mrs potential test-out Mr Trench - in addition to him satisfying the UK immigration authorities must prove a certain level of English

Only TC knows the lady's level of English! My wife attended an English course in Ukraine to re-learn English. She is already approaching the B1 level, and spends at least an hour each day learning new words and improving her pronunciation. Remember these Life Skills tests only examine speaking and listening skills. I chose the British Council IELTS test as there are many examples on Youtube.

Her English was coming along quite nicely when in Cyprus, I would say between basic and intermediate.

Okay TC, this puts Miss Kherson's English at between A2 and B1, which means the A1 test should not be a problem if she is properly prepared for it using Youtube videos.

This is why I used the term "negativity" rather than "pragmatism"!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 09, 2018, 06:56:18 AM
Only TC knows the lady's level of English!

Quite, I simply remember his 'negativity' in this respect

My Wife was volunteering in a charity shop and was becoming quite competent - but she got nervous in the listening part as she simply couldn't understand the ladies accent !

A year later she had the equiv of and Higher Nat. Dip ( level 5) tertiary qualification

I 'get' these hurdles - but they aren't perfect and my 'negativity'  comes from watching her distressed when there was only pride at stake - not the right to come in

It must be a living hell for non EU, non ( reasonable ) English speakers , now



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 09, 2018, 11:56:12 AM
There is a long Tripadvisor thread on Ukrainians failing to get UK Visitor visas ...

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g294473-i3662-k10096309-o40-British_visas_For_Ukrainian_citizens-Ukraine.html

Useful ammunition for you!

Cheers Blighty, most apprieciate it :) it's worth a shot as she certainty won't believe me. I think perhaps she is more single minded than I am, lol. Will depend on how things go this month though and if she's a bit more mature now that she's a year older, one can hope :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 09, 2018, 12:07:19 PM
I honestly prefer the company of locals of Russian speakers - more dinner parties than piss ups in sports bars

Where you no doubt turn a pithy phrase ;D

Funny I saw no sports bars in Paphos. To be honest though I've seen the way whole families (& probably close friends/families) go out and dine around a big table in Ukraine and it truely is a marvelous sight :) The daughters are always nicely dressed all wearing dresses, usually pretty looking and we'll brought up, you can kind of tell they are being raised with the idea if being very marriageable. This wasn't in the concrete blocks I saw this but the nicer city centres so I wouldn't know about our there but I guess the women are all competing back there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on June 09, 2018, 12:17:10 PM
Trench?

are you not supposed to be in Poland/Ukraine now?
"Early June" that's would be about.. NOW
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 09, 2018, 01:57:23 PM
Trench?

are you not supposed to be in Poland/Ukraine now?
"Early June" that's would be about.. NOW

Maybe ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 09, 2018, 09:13:44 PM


Funny I saw no sports bars in Paphos.

Then - as usual - I can only wonder if you've BEEN to the places you claim

IF you are foolish enough to 'doubt me' - suggest Googling 'Sports Bars in Paphos' .....

Clue..  I might know as I provided much of the kit to receive SAT TV in such bars ...Now, many ( most) use naughty internet feeds ..



 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 09, 2018, 09:25:09 PM
Case in point the last girl I was with was 25 when we met. She stayed off the website from after we agreed to meet up to near the end of our second week together. From then on and thereafter she was hitting the online dating site again. I asked her to stop she said she wouldn't as time was running out for her. This surprised me her being in her mid twenties but apparently it is true by mid twenties if a girl is not married things are not looking good for her by the time she is thirty they say put a cross through her - i.e she is unlikely ever to get married unless she does international dating that is.

I know the girl I was with will almost certainly not find another guy. Her want for clothes blinds her as to why she fails with guys. So unless her attitude changes she will scare them all away. So by leaving it a bit my hand only gets stronger there :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 09, 2018, 09:40:57 PM
Case in point the last girl I was with was 25 when we met. She stayed off the website from after we agreed to meet up to near the end of our second week together. From then on and thereafter she was hitting the online dating site again. I asked her to stop

"You asked her to stop"...  ;D   Trench - did it ever cross your mind that that ship had sailed and you were DEFO not on board or the Captain ?


 she said she wouldn't as time was running out for her. This surprised me her being in her mid twenties but apparently it is true by mid twenties if a girl is not married things are not looking good for her by the time she is thirty they say put a cross through her - i.e she is unlikely ever to get married unless she does international dating that is.

Trench, I know SO many FSU ladies who became single - often their their choice - and haven't re-married - they get plenty of offers.  You are talking tripe.


I know the girl I was with will almost certainly not find another guy. Her want for clothes blinds her as to why she fails with guys. So unless her attitude changes she will scare them all away.

Possibly, you put her off western guys ? ...  It would be interesting to hear her side of the story ! ..



So by leaving it a bit my hand only gets stronger there :)

The scary thing is you aren't kidding - you BELIEVE your 'joke'.. 

By staying away - you have more time to 'educate' us here and the ladies are safer

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 09, 2018, 10:44:27 PM
"You asked her to stop"...  ;D   Trench - did it ever cross your mind that that ship had sailed and you were DEFO not on board or the Captain ?

Trench, I know SO many FSU ladies who became single - often their their choice - and haven't re-married - they get plenty of offers.  You are talking tripe.


Possibly, you put her off western guys ? ...  It would be interesting to hear her side of the story ! ..



The scary thing is you aren't kidding - you BELIEVE your 'joke'.. 

By staying away - you have more time to 'educate' us here and the ladies are safer

It was because she was peed off because it was not being done her way. More specifically I'm now pretty sure she thought I was messing her around or using her for sex/bit on the side. In the FSU many women once they hit mid twenties and there after just get used by local guys for sex. She's just seeing it how it is from where she lives not from where I live I now believe. I don't think she has a clue what things are like in the UK western world.

Well she never married in the first place so there would be no remarriage. Besides I think a lot of women that aren't married say that they aren't bothered to save face. Either that or they were badly abused and so have no wish to risk repeating the situation. Getting good at this now, aren't I ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on June 10, 2018, 01:01:02 AM
I know the girl I was with will almost certainly not find another guy. Her want for clothes blinds her as to why she fails with guys. So unless her attitude changes she will scare them all away. So by leaving it a bit my hand only gets stronger there :)

Did you insist that she wear dresses rather than trousers? If so, this would have triggered her 'want' for clothes to meet your requirements. My observation is that most Ukrainian women prefer to wear trousers in their everyday life, and do not expect men to buy them multiple outfits during a shopping expedition.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 10, 2018, 02:18:14 AM
It was because she was peed off because it was not being done her way. More specifically I'm now pretty sure she thought I was messing her around or using her for sex/bit on the side. In the FSU many women once they hit mid twenties and there after just get used by local guys for sex. She's just seeing it how it is from where she lives not from where I live I now believe. I don't think she has a clue what things are like in the UK western world.

You REALLY don't have a scoobdie do about women - from ANYWHERE, Trench .. 

IF she was putting it out at all, she must have been in to you - or you promised her stuff you couldn't deliver - 'coz by your on admission she spending the later days of your time together seeking someone else  :deadhorse:



Well she never married in the first place so there would be no remarriage. Besides I think a lot of women that aren't married say that they aren't bothered to save face. Either that or they were badly abused and so have no wish to risk repeating the situation. Getting good at this now, aren't I ;D

Nope, you aren't even good at arithmetic...Do you seriously think a 25 year old ( you mentioned 30 or ever ) is worried about being left on the shelf ? 

An example I'd give you is SC.  She has NEVER married ... Now she's living in her 6th decade ...  Do you think she was short of suitors ? ;)

(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1732/42659130372_2642f09013_n.jpg)

[Sorry BdHvA]
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 10, 2018, 07:21:30 AM
You REALLY don't have a scoobdie do about women - from ANYWHERE, Trench .. 

IF she was putting it out at all, she must have been in to you - or you promised her stuff you couldn't deliver - 'coz by your on admission she spending the later days of your time together seeking someone else  :deadhorse:



Nope, you aren't even good at arithmetic...Do you seriously think a 25 year old ( you mentioned 30 or ever ) is worried about being left on the shelf ? 

An example I'd give you is SC.  She has NEVER married ... Now she's living in her 6th decade ...  Do you think she was short of suitors ? ;)

(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1732/42659130372_2642f09013_n.jpg)

[Sorry BdHvA]

Did she do that pose especially for me! :o I'm guessing then you guys are still upset about the cat thing.

Well it's been written by quite a few other people that women feel left on the shelf as they get to those sort of ages. Some are more bothered no doubt than others, there are no doubt exceptions. I doubt though it is complete BS if it's come up in many sources. After all apart from most FSW bring brought up to want children there is then the practicality that men earn more and the support network may be needed if from a small family - so if the lady finds herself out of work, ill, etc there is someone there to help her.

The only thing I didn't deliver on with girl is her coming to see me in the UK next. She said I promised her, well I agreed yes but I wasn't intending to make a cast iron promise. I would have delivered if it were possible and only later after I became more aware that it was not just a hard task but virtually impossible that I had no option other than to tell her.

I bought her pretty much what she wanted, and only objected here or there to stop it getting ridiculous. I agreed to go on holiday with her so I delivered on that promise. She asked me to go on holiday with her mud way through our week in Kiev. Though of course I was paying. It was all a bit of a strange experience since I think our two cultures have differences that aren't always obvious and sometimes it's easy to underestimate how much thus can come out in a relationship without really noticing.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 10, 2018, 07:50:44 AM
Did she do that pose especially for me! :o I'm guessing then you guys are still upset about the cat thing.

'The Cat thing' - was Trench showing empathy - when a kitten was run over by it's owner - a friend of Sveta's - Trench responded to my referring to the sadness of all present - by telling us he'd have thrown it over the fence - or something similar...

No, the pose was for me ...and her pleasure ... for when we are old .... It is certainly useful in that this is an arse from which an 'utterance' might get my attention ... You should try to stop talking out of yours and thinking, first !

Well it's been written by quite a few other people that women feel left on the shelf as they get to those sort of ages. Some are more bothered no doubt than others, there are no doubt exceptions. I doubt though it is complete BS if it's come up in many sources. After all apart from most FSW bring brought up to want children there is then the practicality that men earn more and the support network may be needed if from a small family - so if the lady finds herself out of work, ill, etc there is someone there to help her.

I've read plenty of BS about FSU W from those who tend NOT to live with one or go there often enough...

If a lass is half good looking and has a brain - they are in demand ... the issue is finding a guy to match  ..and that applies in the UK

Trench, guys who can pull in the UK - can pull in the FSU ... those that can't here - will have 'issues' ANYWHERE...


The only thing I didn't deliver on with girl is her coming to see me in the UK next. She said I promised her, well I agreed yes but I wasn't intending to make a cast iron promise. I would have delivered if it were possible and only later after I became more aware that it was not just a hard task but virtually impossible that I had no option other than to tell her.

You were told this BEFORE you went on your jaunt to Cyprus ... you misled her ... yet I see you are still suggesting that she 'may have matured', today ... as if you stand some chance with her ..


You would be better proving you have the right to an Irish passport and telling her you can live in Oirland - freely crossing to N.Ireland ;)


I bought her pretty much what she wanted, and only objected here or there to stop it getting ridiculous. I agreed to go on holiday with her so I delivered on that promise. She asked me to go on holiday with her mud way through our week in Kiev. Though of course I was paying. It was all a bit of a strange experience since I think our two cultures have differences that aren't always obvious and sometimes it's easy to underestimate how much thus can come out in a relationship without really noticing.

Matey, you still don't get that FSU W are past masters at suggesting " the man pays" ...;)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 10, 2018, 11:04:34 AM

If a lass is half good looking and has a brain - they are in demand ... the issue is finding a guy to match  ..and that applies in the UK.

You would be better proving you have the right to an Irish passport and telling her you can live in Oirland - freely crossing to N.Ireland ;)

Well she's already told me all the guys left in her area are the dregs of society - druggies, alcoholics, the unemployment & low paid, those with mental health problems and those that look dishevelled, ugly, smelly, etc. Remember Kherson is largely an indus trial dumpsk in decline.

Funny that you say about an Irish Passport. I've been thinking along those lines. My Irish ancestors I'm sure go to far back to be counted (great, great, grandmother I think). That means getting a place over there to live 'theoretically' i.e buy a place and rent out a room or two to pay it's way. I will theoretically take another room but of course they have little way of knowing if I'm resident all year round. A couple of years or whatever later I can then apply for dual citizenship and an Irish passport.

At the moment though I am not quite ready to buy a place there so it's up in the air. Could be by summer or later who knows.

That leaves me with what to tell any new girl who I may meet who may equally have a poorly paying job. Though I know it can potentially cause problems on that front I tend to prefer girls on lower paid jobs to career women. I know career women are not necessarily quite the same as in the UK but I'm not exactly directly employed in a 'profession'. Basically I have a list of qualifications as long as my arm but most careers in the UK involve low pay, years of slogging it out at the bottom, hard work so much so that by the end of the day the last thing J would be thinking of is corresponding with women, i.e knackered, etc.

I just want a girl that wants the same core thing I do, to have children and not have a load of career rubbish get in the way. Now before the US etc crowd shout out about providing for them remember in the UK we have the NHS & subsidised dentistry, fee free state schools, etc :)

So that's about it really, I guess at least they may perhaps be the girls that a lot of guys overlook, probably US guys because of the strong link of career wealth to comfort living. I just need the girl to be flexible like as if I were a businessman though I can't of course call myself that since most Ukrainian women then apparently think sex tourist.

So I kind of need to put myself across where I can be a bit flexible without sounding dodgy and raising red flags for her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on June 10, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
Trench... Having an Irish great-Grandparent will not help you ((
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on July 07, 2018, 01:03:02 AM
The UK visitor visa question is discussed in the Guardian newspaper. It is presented here as 'underlying racism' but the principles involved also apply to single Ukrainian women ... i.e., will the visitor return home afterwards?  UKVI probably decided that there was a very good chance that these people would become overstayers.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/06/lawyer-blames-visitor-visa-refusals-on-deep-underlying-racism
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 07, 2018, 02:23:41 AM
The UK visitor visa question is discussed in the Guardian newspaper. It is presented here as 'underlying racism' but the principles involved also apply to single Ukrainian women ... i.e., will the visitor return home afterwards?  UKVI probably decided that there was a very good chance that these people would become overstayers.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/06/lawyer-blames-visitor-visa-refusals-on-deep-underlying-racism

I think a lot of immigration issues get portrayed as racism by some in the UK. I don't think that this is generally the case. Yes there are people from economically poor countries such as Ukraine that get type cast as desperately poor immigration risks. Sometimes they are a risk and sometimes they aren't and that probably has as much to do with their morals & values, attitudes as to their wealth or status.

Even though the tourist visa policy makes it a bit more difficult for me on this search I can see that it is there for good reason. Unfortunately there has been cases of Ukrainians going to Europe as tourists only with the intent of finding illegal work. So having a system that helps to protect me from women that otherwise might just see dating UK guys as a way in the country I think is probably no bad thing. Otherwise quite a trade in it may start up and I would have another problem to have to sift through.

Aside from that I do find that a lot of Ukrainian women I talk to seem to think the tourist visa is entirely doable. Even after I explain the issues they just think that I am not thinking positively enough. That so long as all the paperwork is filled out in full then the criteria will be satisfied and they will get one :-\

One lady I am messaging at the moment does at least realise that dating will likely have to be done outside the UK until the relationship gets to a marriage situation. So for UK guys it's best to get that hurdle covered early on I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 07, 2018, 02:46:52 AM
If you want to use a pay per month site (like our local dating sites), a recommendation is dmnotify.  I just spent 1 month on this site snd talked to approximately 20 women and only found one suspect girl. I narrowed it down to 5 girls and had all of their personal emails, skype and whatsapp details in less than a week and have now let the membership lapse. I might pay for another month as one girl I really wanted to talk (but hadn't been active for a while) has recently check out my profile several times  ...... 

Well my new strategy is working quite well I think. It's basically to let the women come to me. I don't message any women first or look at their profiles first. I let my profile be visible to all, log on every so often and respond to those women that have contacted me that interest me.

I'm finding a lot of the time the women put a decent amount of effort responding back to me since they were the ones to show first interest. That I'm not getting situations where it's like I'm trying to push a sled up a hill trying to get into decent communication with a woman (which is not normally a good sign).

While I'm not suggesting this method is 100 percent effective I think that going out to meet a woman who had first expressed interest in you is likely to avoid a lot of time wasters who just enjoy 'meeting people', holiday whores, those that are just curious to meet a western man or those that are actually really non fussed about your visit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on July 07, 2018, 03:15:29 AM
Well my new strategy is working quite well I think. It's basically to let the women come to me. I don't message any women first or look at their profiles first. I let my profile be visible to all, log on every so often and respond to those women that have contacted me that interest me.

I'm finding a lot of the time the women put a decent amount of effort responding back to me since they were the ones to show first interest. That I'm not getting situations where it's like I'm trying to push a sled up a hill trying to get into decent communication with a woman (which is not normally a good sign).

While I'm not suggesting this method is 100 percent effective I think that going out to meet a woman who had first expressed interest in you is likely to avoid a lot of time wasters who just enjoy 'meeting people', holiday whores, those that are just curious to meet a western man or those that are actually really non fussed about your visit.


completely wrong approach .. so ignore everything said by this "man"

There is a good reason he went on a WM (visit many) trip in Ukraine for more then two weeks and only managed to get two dates that also failed miserably..  in this case, Trench would be the LAST person to listen to unless complete failure is what you are after.

Trench - stop offering "advice", I would think your last trip showed you have NOTHING to contribute except what NOT to do
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on July 07, 2018, 03:40:44 AM
Unfortunately there has been cases of Ukrainians going to Europe as tourists only with the intent of finding illegal work.

There are strict rules for Ukrainians, who need a biometric passport and can only travel to the EU for up to 90 days in any 180-day period. As my wife travels on an Ukrainian passport, she needs to carry proof to show immigration of her

- health insurance
- accommodation
- return ticket
- spending money

She then receives entry and exit immigration stamps in her passport.

ETIAS rules are planned for visitors to EU from 2020 - see http://www.etiaseurope.eu/
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on July 07, 2018, 03:52:27 AM
 :rules:
Well my new strategy is working quite well I think. It's basically to let the women come to me. I don't message any women first or look at their profiles first.

That approach only works for some people. It was also my approach when using online dating, although you need to be careful and eliminate the insincere women. I viewed it as a 21st Century approach by letting the women chat me up, and so increase my chances of success (which it did).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 07, 2018, 04:59:47 AM
Trench - stop offering "advice", I would think your last trip showed you have NOTHING to contribute except what NOT to do

I'm not offering advice I am merely discussing what I am doing on a point a forum member brought up. I am not suggesting OP does anything I am doing, it's entirely up to him what he chooses to do.

In some ways my trip was a success in that while I did not succeed in finding a woman I learnt a lot about what does not work as you say. Consequently from that experience I feel I have learnt more about dating women and what might work better. So that for me is a success or at least could potentially lead to a success.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 07, 2018, 05:08:32 AM
That approach only works for some people. It was also my approach when using online dating, although you need to be careful and eliminate the insincere women. I viewed it as a 21st Century approach by letting the women chat me up, and so increase my chances of success (which it did).

Exactly, see Nightwish someone agrees at least to some extent :)

Your right Blighty there is a danger of insincere (scammer) women with this approach, since they are trying to fish for a sucker. Once you know how spot these (like Davo has just pointed out above ;) ) it's a far lesser problem than other problems you are likely to deal with by choosing other methods I think.

How come you say it only works for some people Blighty?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 07, 2018, 05:27:05 AM
There are strict rules for Ukrainians, who need a biometric passport and can only travel to the EU for up to 90 days in any 180-day period. As my wife travels on an Ukrainian passport, she needs to carry proof to show immigration of her

- health insurance
- accommodation
- return ticket
- spending money

She then receives entry and exit immigration stamps in her passport.

ETIAS rules are planned for visitors to EU from 2020 - see http://www.etiaseurope.eu/

The ETIAS authorisation makes sense. Last year when the Ukrainian girl I was with was coming to Cyprus for a week with me even with the requirements catered for I was still concerned that she would get refused entry by a border official claiming she was not eligible/take issue with whether what she had validly fulfilled the criteria.

Since the border officials have the final say they could have refusef her entry and ruined the entire trip least to say of the expense and ordeal of it all. It seemed silly to me to have these requirements but not now if they would be checked on arrival or how fully or if the insurance bought etc would be accepted. So another situation the EU did not handle well at least not till 2020. Though of course will probably mean the girl will have to take a big wad of Euros with her each time ::)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on July 07, 2018, 08:11:49 AM
I'm not offering advice I am merely discussing what I am doing on a point a forum member brought up. I am not suggesting OP does anything I am doing, it's entirely up to him what he chooses to do.

In some ways my trip was a success in that while I did not succeed in finding a woman I learnt a lot about what does not work as you say. Consequently from that experience I feel I have learnt more about dating women and what might work better. So that for me is a success or at least could potentially lead to a success.


If that is your point, why inject yourself and poison another thread with Trench talk?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 09, 2018, 01:04:51 AM
Trench,

Surely you knew those were the requiements for any UA lady you invited to CY , already...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 09, 2018, 11:44:09 AM
Trench,

Surely you knew those were the requiements for any UA lady you invited to CY , already...

Yes I knew they were the requirements but I did not know whether what I/we had done met those requirements. It's apparent there are problems with this - many people flooding Embassies with calls and possibly dispute with border officials not least to say travellers worried on flight whether they will get knocked back an all the bad stuff that goes with that. Another EU policy lacking in the thought process.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 09, 2018, 12:52:59 PM
Yes I knew they were the requirements but I did not know whether what I/we had done met those requirements. It's apparent there are problems with this - many people flooding Embassies with calls and possibly dispute with border officials not least to say travellers worried on flight whether they will get knocked back an all the bad stuff that goes with that. Another EU policy lacking in the thought process.

A teletubby no-owe for you ..

There are sites that give PRECISE requirements for destinations - taking into account the passport you have
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 09, 2018, 03:11:03 PM
A teletubby no-owe for you ..

There are sites that give PRECISE requirements for destinations - taking into account the passport you have

Mobe, you cannot say to some border/customs guy 'you have to let me in because this website said...' They won't give a toss what some website said. They will pick some nitty gritty issue, their interpretation, problem or way something should have been done a little different and they will reject as they please. If there was no problem there would be no need for this pre-approval process happening in 2020.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 09, 2018, 03:59:49 PM
I'm not offering advice I am merely discussing what I am doing on a point a forum member brought up. I am not suggesting OP does anything I am doing, it's entirely up to him what he chooses to do.

In some ways my trip was a success in that while I did not succeed in finding a woman I learnt a lot about what does not work as you say.
If that's what counts as success I wonder what you construe as failure?
I've been reading your posts and at times,more often than not, my jaw hits the floor at the sheer rubbish you spout on here.
Quote
Consequently from that experience I feel I have learnt more about dating women and what might work better. So that for me is a success or at least could potentially lead to a success.
Based on your writings I think you have learnt absolutely nothing. In fact, a bloke your age shouldn't be having to learn stuff like this. There's no handbook on the human experience. The truth is, you're a social misfit ands that me being kind. 😃
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 09, 2018, 09:07:46 PM
Mobe, you cannot say to some border/customs guy 'you have to let me in because this website said...'

I can do and did ...

What several EU nations had on their websites re one's non EU wife was BOLLOX and needed to be challenged...and I've twice protested about Customs seizing goods and got 'em back..


It's called knowing your rights, Trench ... 





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 10, 2018, 04:19:49 AM
Well my new strategy is working quite well I think. It's basically to let the women come to me. I don't message any women first or look at their profiles first. I let my profile be visible to all, log on every so often and respond to those women that have contacted me that interest me.

I'm finding a lot of the time the women put a decent amount of effort responding back to me since they were the ones to show first interest. That I'm not getting situations where it's like I'm trying to push a sled up a hill trying to get into decent communication with a woman (which is not normally a good sign).

While I'm not suggesting this method is 100 percent effective I think that going out to meet a woman who had first expressed interest in you is likely to avoid a lot of time wasters who just enjoy 'meeting people', holiday whores, those that are just curious to meet a western man or those that are actually really non fussed about your visit.
My advice to you is to just stop. No ‘strategy’ you employ will see you succeed. The root cause of your failure is yourself.
Until you recognise your character deficits and work on changing them it’s going to be a lonely existence in Surrey/Hampshire.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 10, 2018, 06:09:10 AM
I must disagree with what I feel is an erroneous conclusion you have reached regarding the root cause of Trench’s lack of success...

it’s not because of his attitude...

it’s because he’s poor...

to support my argument, I offer “exhibit A” a “gentleman” by the name of Donald J Trump, the biggest jerk in regards to his behavior to women that he possibly can be, and yet has slept with more beautiful women than all the guys on this board combined!

draw your own conclusion!

to a lot of women, men are nothing more than a life support system for a wallet
it’s incredibly easy for a rich man to enjoy fine sex the way he’d enjoy fine dining
for a rich man the law works in his favor and he makes the woman sign a contract
not the other way round like in Australia now...

but Trench is a poor man
and none of the system works in his favor, the cards are stacked against him

i’m just sayin’ two different lifestyles
part of the widening gulf between rich and poor

if I were super wealthy instead of just merely wealthy
i'd own my own gentleman's club in Amsterdam
and I would be the  Kama Sutra instructor
giving lessons each week for all my girls
while the place was making me $10,000 on bad night

and ya know what
the owner of the club I went to
was probably doing something like that...

son of a bitch, can you imagine...





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 10, 2018, 06:26:01 AM
I must disagree with what I feel is an erroneous conclusion you have reached regarding the root cause of Trench’s lack of success...

it’s not because of his attitude...

it’s because he’s poor...

to support my argument, I offer “exhibit A” a “gentleman” by the name of Donald J Trump, the biggest jerk in regards to his behavior to women that he possibly can be, and yet has slept with more beautiful women than all the guys on this board combined!

draw your own conclusion!

to a lot of women, men are nothing more than a life support system for a wallet
it’s incredibly easy for a rich man to enjoy fine sex the way he’d enjoy fine dining
for a rich man the law works in his favor and he makes the woman sign a contract
not the other way round like in Australia now...

but Trench is a poor man
and none of the system works in his favor, the cards are stacked against him

i’m just sayin’ two different lifestyles
part of the widening gulf between rich and poor

if I were super wealthy instead of just merely wealthy
i'd own my own gentleman's club in Amsterdam
and I would be the  Kama Sutra instructor
giving lessons each week for all my girls
while the place was making me $10,000 on bad night

and ya know what
the owner of the club I went to
was probably doing something like that...

son of a bitch, can you imagine...
Even poor people have relationships, marry, have sex and children.
No , Trenchcoats problems are not caused by lack of money, (although that in itself offers up its own set of problems for him).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 10, 2018, 07:29:50 AM
perhaps he is as you say he is...
maybe we all are to some degree
blind to who we really are...
but if Trench  had money
it totally wouldn't matter in the least bit!
and he could have a blond on one arm
and a brunette on the other
if that's what he wanted
money REALLY can't buy you love after all
but you CAN rent stimulating companionship and sex
with a 21 yr old woman, and probably pay less than
what you spent back when you were "dating" on a relationship

OTOH, he could always marry a gold digger
if she signs the pre-nup
and if she's content to be his woman
in exchange for an affluent life style
they're both happy

there are many way that the pieces of the puzzle may fit together
to become whole

but for a rich man, the pieces come to him
the way flies are drawn to honey

it's the poor man who is discontented and unhappy
because he has no options at all, low income males are at the bottom of the social scale
high income males are at the top

that's the difference

your access to women is proportional to your access to money
I can't think of any better correlation than this

really, really rich guys have total access, and can do whatever they want
poor guys will basically just have porn
right Trench?








Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 10, 2018, 07:42:21 AM
perhaps he is as you say he is...
maybe we all are to some degree
blind to who we really are...
but if Trench  had money
it totally wouldn't matter in the least bit!
and he could have a blond on one arm
and a brunette on the other
if that's what he wanted
money REALLY can't buy you love after all
but you CAN rent stimulating companionship and sex
with a 21 yr old woman, and probably pay less than
what you spent back when you were "dating" on a relationship

OTOH, he could always marry a gold digger
if she signs the pre-nup
and if she's content to be his woman
in exchange for an affluent life style
they're both happy

there are many way that the pieces of the puzzle may fit together
to become whole

but for a rich man, the pieces come to him
the way flies are drawn to honey

it's the poor man who is discontented and unhappy
because he has no options at all, low income males are at the bottom of the social scale
high income males are at the top

that's the difference

your access to women is proportional to your access to money
I can't think of any better correlation than this

really, really rich guys have total access, and can do whatever they want
poor guys will basically just have porn
right Trench?
We are talking about Trench here, though, so that’s an interesting scenario.
What would Trench do if he had bags of dosh?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 10, 2018, 07:48:00 AM
do you know what a rich man can do?
a rich man can buy a woman’s eggs, say a blond hair/blue eyed woman
add his own sperm and go to a fertility clinic
where the eggs are fertilized in-vitro
and then introduced into a surrogate mother
until she gives birth 9 months later

the whole thing available now for $200,000 in China
egg donor gets $20,000
and surrogate mother gets $25,000
you can have a child
and your “wife” can never divorce you
since she doesn’t exist!
you don’t need women for children any more
just their wombs
isn’t it wonderful what money can buy

shit for $2 million you can breed a small army of super men
you know this stuff is already coming right...
I mean the VR sex that will be out in say 5-10 yr will be totally for frustrated guys like Trench

what will be real and what will be imaginary
like in a dream


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 25, 2018, 09:50:07 AM
Right, just been thinking this process through. I will send out my first email with my top 5 filter questions then cut down the field from those responses.


What filter questions do you ask in your first, second and subsequent letters? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 25, 2018, 12:57:53 PM

What filter questions do you ask in your first, second and subsequent letters? 

Whether her boobs are real or fake of course ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 26, 2018, 09:58:46 PM
It has been my experience that if a woman is interested in me, she will ask questions.  The number of questions she asks is proportional to her interest.  Or maybe women simply find me fascinating. 

If I were writing 1000 women (and I personally would never do that) I would elevate a woman to the top of the list if she began asking many questions.  She sincerely wants to get to know me better.  The more questions a lady asks, the more she is investing in you emotionally.

If you're just looking for a date or a penpal, writing 1000 may be suitable.  But if you are searching for a life partner, you need to be able to filter those 1000 before writing.

I would highly encourage you to take the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) test and find out what personality type you are, and what personality type best matches yours.  Know thyself, as the saying goes.

It's also probably worthwhile to familiarize yourself with the psychology Big 5.  Know thyself, and know how to recognize her traits simply by what she writes.

Knowing your IQ is also worthwhile.  Understanding how to recognize IQ in others is helpful too.  Girls with a higher IQ than the guy usually want a man she can control.  Women normally go for a guy who has a higher IQ than her. (part of the dominance heirarchy)

This will allow you to eliminate a lot of profiles, simply by glancing at what they write.  Even if they are attractive, if you know your personality types are not compatible, there won't be chemistry.  If your personality types are compatible, you will find chemistry when you meet.

This knowledge will also help you ask better questions, which helps filter girls.  For example, object oriented girls are less likely to respond to abstract questions, and idea oriented girls are less likely to respond to concrete.

The only drawback is that depending on your personality type, (especially if you are idea oriented) you may go through 1000 profiles and not find any that stand out.

Hint: idea oriented people just found my post interesting.  Object oriented people's eyes glazed over by the second paragraph.

Beefarmer, thanks once again for a great post. I did indeed read to the end so yep ideas guy :)

I find a lot of the time that a lot of profiles just have  the basic profile info at best and rarely anything filed out in the descriptivery sections. I think this is a female thing more in that they don't wish to gibe too much away early on. So pre screening them can only be done so far. To be honest I find it best to just go by what I can read into pics and just haul up a load of them, nowhere near a 1000 though, lol.

I will look into the links you suggest on personality more. The myers bright thing I have done.

I find hobbies/interests are probably the most telling thing. If she is an Opera or Orchestra fanatic as I have found out in the past it usually isn't a girl that is going to work with me.

I think aside from that though a lot of FSW are probably a hell of a lot closer to me on the Myers Brigg personality type than UK women. That's why I think they suit me better. Their culture and the sort if personalities inherent in it suit me better as a whole. Kind of a bit like how Chinese are regarded as very studious types on the whole.

One of the questions I ask myself of recent is are the women's interests something I could get with.  Not necessarily the same as my own but could I get with them. If the answer is yes and a fair amount of the time it is then I think she is probably reasonable enough to proceed with.

The only part of FSW I have been struggling with and I think many men do is their often dominant behaviour. Most of all their arbitrary behaviour within that. They tend to often bring up a - 'this is how it will be done/way I want it' type of situation. I you state much to the contrary it seems to be a downhill path from there on out. This is what I have found most challenging with them. I'm guessing it's also why a lot of relationships to local men in the FSU don't work out. It seems inherent to almost all of them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 26, 2018, 10:44:29 PM
Bee Farmer and Trenchcoat.  Wow.  That is a duo I'd like to see in action on the hunt in Ukraine!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2018, 12:31:50 AM
If anything I might believe that John Gaunt is Sting. Almost exact same attitude. I also am dubious if he is really married to FSW as he doesn't seem to be aware of the general personality of them. He seems to act as if it is like being married to a western woman.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 12:40:42 AM
LOL. And you know this from your vast experience with WW?  FSUW?

I can assure you, John is married to a UW.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 27, 2018, 12:54:51 AM
Thanks for the heads up, Boethius

...and I certainly didn't get the impression JG was 'Sting23'
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 27, 2018, 04:01:36 AM
If anything I might believe that John Gaunt is Sting. Almost exact same attitude. I also am dubious if he is really married to FSW as he doesn't seem to be aware of the general personality of them.
Are you going to enlighten us? Based on your vast interaction with women from across the FSU? Bah humbug.
Each woman is an individual with a unique personality. FSUW share certain cultural/social characteristics which is true of any population/society but even these cannot be generalised as so many factors come into play. One would need to drill deep into all sorts of areas (social, cultural, historical, religious,  to name just a few) to come to any sort of conclusion.
 Boethius has a much better grasp and knowledge of this than I. To suggest that FSUW, or indeed, any group of women, share personality traits is just......  :rolleyes:


 
Quote
He seems to act as if it is like being married to a western woman.


Do tell us all about your experience of marriage to any woman, never mind a WW.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 27, 2018, 04:03:45 AM
LOL. And you know this from your vast experience with WW?  FSUW?

I can assure you, John is married to a UW.

Indeed.  :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 27, 2018, 04:09:09 AM
Thanks for the heads up, Boethius

...and I certainly didn't get the impression JG was 'Sting23'
Quite right, too.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2018, 06:02:47 AM
Well whatever on John Gaunt then.

Point is I have met few FSW that aren't that Arbitary. Some are less so than others but most seem to have a strong streak of it in them, perhaps it's due to Soviet Union experience or from living in harsh conditions who knows. I'm sure plenty of western guys have come across this with FSW too.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on July 27, 2018, 07:18:39 AM
Bee Farmer and Trenchcoat.  Wow.  That is a duo I'd like to see in action on the hunt in Ukraine!

Something like Beevis and Butthead tried to get laid in Ukraine. Our two heroes could not even figure it out if they were in the RiverBoat on the Dnieper.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 08:29:38 AM
Point is I have met few FSW that aren't that Arbitary. Some are less so than others but most seem to have a strong streak of it in them, perhaps it's due to Soviet Union experience or from living in harsh conditions who knows. I'm sure plenty of western guys have come across this with FSW too.


I'm not certain what you mean by arbitrary, but have you ever considered this is a personality type that appeals to you?  Or that is attracted to you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2018, 10:44:20 AM

I'm not certain what you mean by arbitrary, but have you ever considered this is a personality type that appeals to you?  Or that is attracted to you?

By arbitrary I mean they are like state what will be happening or how things shall be done and won't move from that position. They decide on something and that's that, doesn't matter what I say. In fact if I say something to the contrary the can not take too well to it and relations can deteriorate unless I change my mind pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 10:46:54 AM
You may want to consult your dictionary for the definition of arbitrary.


Have you ever considered that this character flaws is why those women must seek foreign partners?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: IvanM07 on July 27, 2018, 10:52:12 AM
You may want to consult your dictionary for the definition of arbitrary.

There can be multiple definitions for the same thing.

(of power or a ruling body) unrestrained and autocratic in the use of authority.
"arbitrary rule by King and bishops has been made impossible"
synonyms:   autocratic, dictatorial, autarchic, undemocratic, despotic, tyrannical, authoritarian, high-handed; More
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2018, 10:59:24 AM
You may want to consult your dictionary for the definition of arbitrary.


Have you ever considered that this character flaws is why those women must seek foreign partners?

Yes it is something that has crossed my mind lol. In the UK there is normally big reasons why women are still single and on dating sites - mental health problems, problems with relationships, etc.

So by comparison the one same or similar problem with FSW/Ukrainian women that keeps cropping up should be small in comparison and is indeed a better deal I guess. It's really just a case if me getting to know how to cope with it I think. I'm starting to get there I think but think there might be more learning for me to do on this one I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 11:08:22 AM
You could say the same thing about 40 year old men with no relationship history.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2018, 11:18:46 AM
You could say the same thing about 40 year old men with no relationship history.

I have some relationship history but not a lot but this is more due to the bad state if dating in the UK.

I guess I am going to have to make the best of what I can. I think I can make a go of it, it will just take a bit of effort to get there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 11:24:30 AM
If you have a bad dating history, you should look at the reasons why.  They are about you, not the women you dated.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2018, 11:38:06 AM
If you have a bad dating history, you should look at the reasons why.  They are about you, not the women you dated.

There about the bad society I live in. As Krimster states women have a monopoly in the west. Western society is not kind on the guy and to think it's the FSUM that suffer from alcoholism, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 11:44:33 AM
You misunderstood krimster.  It isn't that women in the West have it better, it is that because they are equal and don't have to rely on men, they have more choices.


Yes, Western societies are so hard on men.  That must be why they are so underrepresented in Fortune 500 companies, on lists of the world's wealthiest individuals, in boardrooms, and in politics.  Those, poor, poor oppressed WM.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2018, 12:16:25 PM
You misunderstood krimster.  It isn't that women in the West have it better, it is that because they are equal and don't have to rely on men, they have more choices.


Yes, Western societies are so hard on men.  That must be why they are so underrepresented in Fortune 500 companies, on lists of the world's wealthiest individuals, in boardrooms, and in politics.  Those, poor, poor oppressed WM.

You don't get it do you. If a western women's gift/worth is pregnancy to a man then what is a man's worth to a woman? He can't get pregnant. That's right he's worth is in being a provider otherwise he has no worth to her.

The more equal a western society gets the less worth a man has as a provider. The woman is both becoming a provider and so making the man redundant and can get pregnant.

When my sister got divorced from her first husband she said to me 'there are no decent me around' - she was in her early to mid thirties. I soon learnt that 'decent' did not me a nice guy with pleasant manners and the right morals but a guy who had a good job and her own house like she did. Any guy with much less than this wasn't really suitable so not a consideration or apparently seen as a decent man, lol.

That's why men need to earn more than women, that's why the need to be dominant in the fortune 500 companies - they are supposed to be the providers it's their thing. It isn't supposed to be a put down of women it's just what men are built to do, provide sk the woman doesn't have to. I tell you now I would rather be a western woman any day my than a western man.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 12:20:47 PM
You have a perverted understanding of what constitutes a relationship.

A woman doesn't choose a man solely because he is a breadwinner, or because he is a sperm donor.  She does so because she wants to build a life with him.

Our children are grown.  Does that mean that suddenly, my husband is superfluous to my life?

There are many men here who had raised families with their American ex wives, and were not looking to have children with a new FSUW.  Are they superfluous to the FSUW they chose, who usually had a child/children with an FSUM?

You have never lived as a woman, which is why you say what you do.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 27, 2018, 12:36:36 PM
Your talking about post family creation relationships Boe. Truth is a women in the west is normally attracted to several men but is most likely to chose the bear provider of those men as long as the man decides to accept her choice to date him.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 01:04:14 PM
No, WW usually don't choose the best provider.  A woman usually chooses the man who she loves (at the time).

For most individuals (male and female), the heart is open to love and family.  Somewhere along the line, you lost that.  I assume it is because of a painful past experience.  However, I don't think, even if you manage to find an FSUW to marry, that the relationship will last, because what you seek is not built from a place of love and normality.  It's broken.  I don't post that to you with any malice, but with a sadness.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: DaveNY on July 27, 2018, 01:31:19 PM
You don't get it do you. If a western women's gift/worth is pregnancy to a man then what is a man's worth to a woman? He can't get pregnant. That's right he's worth is in being a provider otherwise he has no worth to her.

The more equal a western society gets the less worth a man has as a provider. The woman is both becoming a provider and so making the man redundant and can get pregnant.

When my sister got divorced from her first husband she said to me 'there are no decent me around' - she was in her early to mid thirties. I soon learnt that 'decent' did not me a nice guy with pleasant manners and the right morals but a guy who had a good job and her own house like she did. Any guy with much less than this wasn't really suitable so not a consideration or apparently seen as a decent man, lol.

That's why men need to earn more than women, that's why the need to be dominant in the fortune 500 companies - they are supposed to be the providers it's their thing. It isn't supposed to be a put down of women it's just what men are built to do, provide sk the woman doesn't have to. I tell you now I would rather be a western woman any day my than a western man.

Trench what you say has some truth to it though it's becoming less relevant. 50 years ago it could be said that women married up. Women married men who were taller than them. Older than them and financially better off. This was because many women used to work little after having children so they needed to make sure their family would still be housed and fed.

Even today some of this is still true for some women. My wife is 6'2" she said it was difficult for her to date a man who was 5'10" because after putting on heels she was 6"-7" taller than him. She said she felt like his mother. Other women wouldn't think of marrying a man who made substantially less than her. Most women today still marry men who are older than themselves.

Of course this has changed greatly in the last 50 years. More women than men go to college and graduate and the gulf is widening. This means over time women's wages will close the gap with men's wages. Most/many women return to work after having children. This means her children and herself will be housed and fed. Perhaps a reason for the increased divorce rate?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 27, 2018, 03:10:28 PM
It isn't that women in the West have it better, it is that because they are equal and don't have to rely on men, they have more choices.



With international dating WM now have more choices also.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 03:12:22 PM
Perhaps a reason for the increased divorce rate?

I believe it increased when no fault divorce was introduced.


With international dating WM now have more choices also.

Sure, but realistically, the vast majority of WM date, and marry, women from their own countries.

Incidentally, international dating means WW have more choices also. :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 27, 2018, 05:01:44 PM
Quote
I find hobbies/interests are probably the most telling thing. If she is an Opera or Orchestra fanatic as I have found out in the past it usually isn't a girl that is going to work with me.

Fanatics about anything can be difficult.  But someone who simply enjoys opera or orchestra does not mean you are not compatible.  It's simply a sign they are a Feeling type personality.  If you are a Thinking type personality who doesn't get into orchestra or opera, you actually may be quite compatible because you will complement each other.

Quote
I think aside from that though a lot of FSW are probably a hell of a lot closer to me on the Myers Brigg personality type than UK women.
 

That's very unlikely.  In both cultures you will find a range of personality types.  Some will complement yours, and some will clash.

Quote
Their culture and the sort if personalities inherent in it suit me better as a whole.

Do not confuse personality type with culture.  My cousin's wife is an ISFJ.  She is college educated and a nurse.  She has a very dominant personality.  She "wears the pants" of the family.  She also has a higher IQ than my cousin.  (She's also excessively obese and had limited prospects for marriage.  My cousin was a stable guy who treats her well, and they have common values regarding family, etc.)
I am also friends with a Mennonite family.  The mother is also an ISFJ.  The Mennonite culture is very patriarchal.  The lady is very meek and demure.  She is a doormat type personality.  her husband doesn't take advantage of it badly, but she would let him roll over her if he wished.

The difference is the culture, and not the personality type of how they process information from the world.

Quote
Bee Farmer and Trenchcoat.  Wow.  That is a duo I'd like to see in action on the hunt in Ukraine!


Why?  At least for me, you wouldn't understand it even if I explained what I was doing to you.  Your problem is that you are blinded by your own paradigm, and unable to see that what works for you is not what will work for others.  It would confuse you just as much as I shake my head at your antics, and wonder why on earth you would go for girls who respond to someone who acts like you, and I shake my head in amazement as to why you would act like you do. 

I'll give you an illustration...

Quote
One thing I learned while interviewing FSU Women is never to reveal too much about one's self.  There is a direct correlation between a woman asking a bunch of questions and a woman with an attitude. 
I need a woman who can express herself without demanding information.

Being curious about you has nothing to do with a woman being low in trait Agreeableness.
What you really want is a woman with no personality.  Maybe you should buy a lifelike sex doll.
Do not confuse being low in Agreeableness (having an attitude) with being high in Neuroticism.  Neuroticism is higher in people who are lower in socio-economic status, and is to be expected in FSU women.  (Once they acclimate to a less stressful and comfortable lifestyle, their Neuroticism should be expected to lessen.

Quote
Very simply put, if a woman cannot be kind when she is interviewing a prospective mate, how do you think it will be living with her?

Since when is asking you questions about yourself being "not kind?"

Perhaps the bigger problem is that you have character defects that you don't want the lady to discover.  It's easier for you to cut and run, than it is for you to admit that you are wrong and have unaddressed problems.

You should actually want some degree of conflict.  What's the magic amount?  If you have less than 5 positive interactions to one negative, the relationship fails.  But if everything is perfect and you never have any disagreements or conflict, and you have more than 11 positive interactions to one negative, the relationship also fails.  There is no depth to the relationship, and no room for personal growth or improvement.

Quote
It is fun to ask general questions of a woman that allow her to engage you without thinking she is getting the third degree.  For instance, a woman from Dnepropetrovsk might get a question like:  You aren't a rocket scientist are you?   I remember asking a woman from Chelyabinsk where she was when the meteor hit close to her city. 

That's engaging in meaningless, shallow conversation which does nothing to getting to know each other.  Yes, they may engage you by responding, but it does nothing for getting to know someone beyond the most superficial degree. 
And you may be happy with that.  That may work for you.  The ideal marriage for many men has the emotional depth and equivalence to a one night stand that occurs with the same woman every night.  And if that's what you want, that's fine.  You're the one who has to live with that. (and ends up with a string of shallow, meaningless relationships, with no continuity of narrative in your life, divorce, and children being raised in broken homes.  And it never ceases to amaze me when guys search for a girl whose parents are not divorced and was raised in a good home, yet they are divorced and raising kids in a broken home.)
But some people want a relationship with more depth and meaning, which will last a lifetime.  It would be pointless for you to watch me courting a lady, as my goals are completely different from yours.

Quote
Point is I have met few FSW that aren't that Arbitary. Some are less so than others but most seem to have a strong streak of it in them, perhaps it's due to Soviet Union experience or from living in harsh conditions who knows.

Trench, have you considered the possibility that you come across to women as being helpless, and that you need a babysitter or a strong woman to take you by the hand?

I suspect that part of your problem is that you are too high in trait Agreeableness.  The problem with very agreeable people is that they never know what they want for themselves.  They often need psychological counseling because they need assertiveness training so they can stand up for themselves.

Quote
Something like Beevis and Butthead tried to get laid in Ukraine. Our two heroes could not even figure it out if they were in the RiverBoat on the Dnieper.

I'm not a sex tourist.  It speaks volumes that you would consider guys in Ukraine searching for a relationship to be sex tourists.  Are you simply revealing your own motivations, and projecting them onto others?

Quote
In the UK there is normally big reasons why women are still single and on dating sites - mental health problems, problems with relationships, etc.

You could say the same thing about 40 year old men with no relationship history.

I read something once which said an estimated 70% of men seeking wives in the FSU suffer from a mental illness, and about 40% of the FSU women seeking western men.

Quote
If you have a bad dating history, you should look at the reasons why.  They are about you, not the women you dated.

You may be jumping to conclusions that someone having a limited dating history is a bad dating history.  Some people have minimal dating history because they hold themselves to higher standards, and refuse to lower their standards.

For example, if a 40 year old guy is physically fit, never married, no kids, no tattoos, doesn't drink alcohol or smoke or use drugs, has a stable $50K income, and Christian values, how many women of similar age is he going to find who have never been married, have no kids, physically fit, no tattoos, doesn't abuse alcohol or drugs or tobacco, has Christian values, etc.?
I can tell you that even by the age of 30, it's very difficult to find single women a guy like that would want to date.  Is the guy the problem for having a limited relationship history?

Quote
That must be why they are so underrepresented in Fortune 500 companies, on lists of the world's wealthiest individuals, in boardrooms, and in politics.  Those, poor, poor oppressed WM.


That's simply a function of high conscientiousness in men, and a desire to outcompete the men around him.
It's also a function that western women are not willing to work 80 hour weeks for decades on end.  By the time they hit 30, they may be at the top of the world in their career, and they walk away from it because they want to have a kid.  The men keep plugging along.
Not only that, men will work longer hours than women.  Hospitals know this.  They have to hire more women doctors than male doctors because the women won't put in the hours the males will.  They value things outside of work.  Men are able to fixate and consume themselves with pursuing one thing, and ignoring the rest of life.

Women are underrepresented in big companies and positions of a lot of power and authority because they are smart enough not to immerse themselves in their work that much for so many years in order to get there.

Quote
A woman doesn't choose a man solely because he is a breadwinner, or because he is a sperm donor.  She does so because she wants to build a life with him.

No, WW usually don't choose the best provider.  A woman usually chooses the man who she loves (at the time).

A woman simply won't love a guy who isn't a good provider, or who can provide less than she can.

But women typically don't have relationships with men who are below them in socio-economic status.  They go for men who are equal or higher.  Yes, they want a guy who will love them and treat them right and care for them and be a good father, etc, but most women aren't going to give a chance to the guy flipping burgers at McDonald's unless she is also working at McDonald's or lower in social status.

Quote
For most individuals (male and female), the heart is open to love and family. 

Typically, women won't open their heart to love and family unless the guy is equal or higher socio-economic status.

Quote
However, I don't think, even if you manage to find an FSUW to marry, that the relationship will last, because what you seek is not built from a place of love and normality.  It's broken. 

Most men pursuing FSU women are not seeking a relationship built from a place of love and normality.  They are broken.
Look how many men are divorced.  Those men are broken.  Studies show that men do not recover from a broken heart.  They are injured for life.  The men simply move on.  They are searching for a substitute or approximation of a real loving relationship.

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More women than men go to college and graduate and the gulf is widening. This means over time women's wages will close the gap with men's wages.

Until women are willing to work 80 hours a week for 50 years, and are willing to not have kids to focus on their careers, it won't happen.
As long as women work less hours per week as men, and as long as women put their careers on hold to have kids, there will continue to be wage disparity.

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This means her children and herself will be housed and fed. Perhaps a reason for the increased divorce rate?

The divorce rate for wealthy people is low.  It is the lower classes where divorce is rampant, especially where people are living paycheck to paycheck.  Welfare benefits have been a big factor in the divorce rate, as the state now becomes a "father" figure.

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I believe it increased when no fault divorce was introduced.

That hasn't helped anything.  Social acceptance of divorce hasn't helped anything either.

Used to, marriage was a sacred act, that meant something.  Perhaps it is just a decline in the moral fabric of society, but people seem to be able to break their word without having much of a guilty conscience.  You're supposed to work on problems, rather than running away from them.

Quote
Incidentally, international dating means WW have more choices also.

I know a western woman who got herself a mail order groom from China.  She wore the pants in the family, very domineering and abusive, and lorded her economic clout over the guy.  It was not a pretty picture.  The woman died of cancer a couple years ago.  She was my Aunt's boss.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 06:27:03 PM
Quote
You may be jumping to conclusions that someone having a limited dating history is a bad dating history.  Some people have minimal dating history because they hold themselves to higher standards, and refuse to lower their standards.[/font]For example, if a 40 year old guy is physically fit, never married, no kids, no tattoos, doesn't drink alcohol or smoke or use drugs, has a stable $50K income, and Christian values, how many women of similar age is he going to find who have never been married, have no kids, physically fit, no tattoos, doesn't abuse alcohol or drugs or tobacco, has Christian values, etc.?I can tell you that even by the age of 30, it's very difficult to find single women a guy like that would want to date.  Is the guy the problem for having a limited relationship history?

No, I'm not jumping to conclusions.  Yes, the guy is at fault for having a limited relationship history. 
Incidentally, Trench had zero issues with setting up "housekeeping" in Kyiv for a week with a Ukrainian tart.  He even took her on vacation later.  So, I don't believe this excuse about his high moral standards.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 27, 2018, 06:32:11 PM
Quote
A woman simply won't love a guy who isn't a good provider, or who can provide less than she can.


I again disagree.  I earn far more than does my husband.  Both my sisters make double what their husbands do.  I knew I would out earn my husband my entire career when I married him.  My sisters did not.  One just works in a very high demand field.  Her husband works in the same field, but is compensated less.   I know many women who earn far more than their husbands.  It isn't necessarily a consideration in choosing a mate if a woman knows she will be able to support herself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 27, 2018, 08:04:16 PM
Quote
No, I'm not jumping to conclusions.  Yes, the guy is at fault for having a limited relationship history. 

What is the guy's fault?  Does a guy have an obligation to pursue as many relationships as he can, regardless if they are with people he would ever consider marrying?

I was always taught that I should never date someone that I knew I would have no intentions of marrying.  If a guy lives by that code and has high standards, that greatly reduces the pool of potential dates.

It might also be worthwhile to define what is meant by "limited relationship history."  If a guy has a limited number of long-term relationships, versus a guy having many dates with many girls but never having serious long-tern relationships with them, which guy has the limited relationship history?

Quote
Incidentally, Trench had zero issues with setting up "housekeeping" in Kyiv for a week with a Ukrainian tart.  He even took her on vacation later.  So, I don't believe this excuse about his high moral standards.

My hypothetical situation was not Trench.

Quote
I again disagree.  I earn far more than does my husband.  Both my sisters make double what their husbands do.  I knew I would out earn my husband my entire career when I married him.  My sisters did not.  One just works in a very high demand field.  Her husband works in the same field, but is compensated less. 

Your argument is frivolous.  You are arguing from a defense attorney paradigm, where you are looking for exceptions to the rule to create a reasonable doubt.

The problem is that exceptions do not prove the rule.

Try looking at it from a statisticians perspective.  When taken in aggregate, women go for guys who are equal or higher in socio-economic status, which is heavily influenced by economic status.
Yes, there are exceptions where a girl goes for a guy who is lower status than her, but those are rare exceptions.  Women typically go for guys who are equal or higher in status than the girl.

It is irrelevant to say that you knew you would out earn your husband over your career.  When you entered the relationship, did you out earn him then?

Quote
I know many women who earn far more than their husbands.

Did they earn more than the guy when they entered the relationship?  That is what you have to look at.  Even if they out earned him then, were they still equal in socio-economic status?

Quote
It isn't necessarily a consideration in choosing a mate if a woman knows she will be able to support herself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrpdRh_2gW8

Steffi Graf has a net worth of $30 million.
She married Andre Agassi, who has a net worth of $175 million.

Why didn't she marry the guy in the stands?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 27, 2018, 09:47:10 PM
Scenario: Long-term married woman with grown up kids v serially single guy with some 'interesting' viewpoints on the ideal woman ...

Who to believe ?

..and I'm not referring to poor 'ol Trenchie - for a change
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 28, 2018, 11:48:42 AM
Scenario: Long-term married woman with grown up kids v serially single guy with some 'interesting' viewpoints on the ideal woman ...

Who to believe ?

..and I'm not referring to poor 'ol Trenchie - for a change

Where in this thread has anyone been discussing the ideal woman?  (And how is your post relevant?  There's something missing in your post, which seems to require a giant leap to complete any logical thought sequence.)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 28, 2018, 02:28:32 PM
Quote
Your argument is frivolous.  You are arguing from a defense attorney paradigm, where you are looking for exceptions to the rule to create a reasonable doubt.  The problem is that exceptions do not prove the rule.


It is not such an exception.  Almost 40% of wives now out earn their husbands.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 28, 2018, 02:34:38 PM
Gaspar, thanks for posting.
Sorry you had to make the mistakes that many here warn about, and that have been made by dozens (hundreds) of guys before you.
Many of us never will go except on WMVM trips, while others cast us as terrible people and will only go on WOVO trips such as yours.
Rarely are WMVM trips complete disasters, whereas many WOVO trips are disasters.
Most (unlike you) will not honestly admit to such.
And, as you now know, the worst kind of WOVO trip involves a vacation away from her home city for the gal.

In case you want to take a more logical, organized approach next time around, here is the guide:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

As I found on my Lviv trip and my attempt at visit many. It isn't all that simple, it's like going back to square one of FSU dating and learning the visit many approach from day one rather than the visit one approach. It's like starting over and doing all the learning again.

Specifics need to be given as to EXACTLY what to do for the wmvm approach - I mean all the specific details. Otherwise the whole lot can end in a disaster. Like needing to know not to put questions in a list form, or not to mention to the women that you are meeting other women - as otherwise they will think you are a player and it all goes south.

Then there is the issue of communication Apps - Whatsapp, Viber and Skype and the different pace of girls communication. I'm not saying it is not still possible but I think it is easier to get hamstrung on the wmvm today than it was a few years ago when women pretty much all accepted the same way to go about it - write a few letters then accept a meet up or Skype a bit if guy was specializing in a meet one.

I just think the write many takes careful thinking and deployment more these days. For example some girls will message a lot on the abive said communication apps and expect prompt replies back some will just do the odd message every once in a while and be objectionable to a guy that wants to message a lot.

Now you could say what the hey with a wmvm approach. Keep it minimal and then just announce to her you wish to see her. It might work and the whole premise of the wmvm was to siphon out the girls who were most bothered I believe. I still wonder though if its throwing a lot of girls away needlessly.

That and the issue I had in Lviv was that I was feeling like I really was dating blind with minimal pre contact stuff with the girl.

ML how do you explain to the girl that you can only meet her for a meeting/few hours after messaging several letters with her?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on July 28, 2018, 02:40:36 PM
As I found on my Lviv trip and my attempt at visit many. It isn't all that simple, it's like going back to square one of FSU dating and learning the visit many approach from day one rather than the visit one approach. It's like starting over and doing all the learning again.

Specifics need to be given as to EXACTLY what to do for the wmvm approach - I mean all the specific details. Otherwise the whole lot can end in a disaster. Like needing to know not to put questions in a list form, or not to mention to the women that you are meeting other women - as otherwise they will think you are a player and it all goes south.

Then there is the issue of communication Apps - Whatsapp, Viber and Skype and the different pace of girls communication. I'm not saying it is not still possible but I think it is easier to get hamstrung on the wmvm today than it was a few years ago when women pretty much all accepted the same way to go about it - write a few letters then accept a meet up or Skype a bit if guy was specializing in a meet one.

I just think the write many takes careful thinking and deployment more these days. For example some girls will message a lot on the abive said communication apps and expect prompt replies back some will just do the odd message every once in a while and be objectionable to a guy that wants to message a lot.

Now you could say what the hey with a wmvm approach. Keep it minimal and then just announce to her you wish to see her. It might work and the whole premise of the wmvm was to siphon out the girls who were most bothered I believe. I still wonder though if its throwing a lot of girls away needlessly.

That and the issue I had in Lviv was that I was feeling like I really was dating blind with minimal pre contact stuff with the girl.

ML how do you explain to the girl that you can only meet her for a meeting/few hours after messaging several letters with her?

To any normal thinking man with any experience of the opposite sex, this would never be an issue, that is simply something you never do, never ever ever ever... and 99.99999999997% of the male population knows this without having to be told..

do you want us to accompany you on your next trip and hold your hand also? Have the blanket and pacifier ready for when you get dumped again because you are simply not man enough for this..
you might be 40+ but your actions and thinking is one of a horny teenager with a hormone unbalance.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 28, 2018, 04:07:49 PM
As I found on my Lviv trip and my attempt at visit many. It isn't all that simple, it's like going back to square one of FSU dating
What do you mean ‘attempt at visit many’? IIRC, you had not communicated with any one from Lviv or arranged any meets prior to getting there.
In fact, weren’t you leering at women in the street and trying to get a date?

You haven’t left GO yet, never mind about getting back to square one.

Yet another example of Trench trying to portray himself as a bloke with mucho experience.   :cluebat:

I might be going to Kyiv next week for a few days. Want to come along, Trench? I’ll get to see you in action and report back.  8)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 28, 2018, 04:10:16 PM
38% is not a rule.  It's less than a majority.  If you bet on something that was only 38%, you would be wrong 62% of the time.

But let's be completely honest about that 38%.

40% of the time a woman out earns a man in marriage, it is transitory and persists short term, such as the guy being laid off and inbetween jobs.  And if we're going to be completely honest, that 38% result was calculated after the 2008 recession which mainly resulted in men losing jobs, while it had basically no effect on female jobs.

Of marriages in which the woman earned more than the husband for 3 years straight or more, it was only 23% of wives.  (And in marriages when the husband or both are in paid work, it is 29% of wives earning more, meaning that in 9% of marriages, the husband does not work, and in another 6% of marriages, the man may have been laid off and accepted a part time job just to bring in some income until he could get back on his feet with a better job.)  Still, that is a jump from 1970, when only 10% of wives out earned their husbands.

This phenomenon is something new in the history of marriages.  What long term effects will it have?  We don't really know.  We do know though that to the degree that rights are extended to women, economic prosperity follows.

But what do we know so far about marriages when wives out earn husbands?  Women do not like it.  Men do not like it.  It may happen more now, but most people do not like it.

If the wife is the sole breadwinner, and the guy does not work, the husband is 5 times more likely to cheat on her.  In contrast, if a woman is entirely dependent on her husband, she is less likely to cheat.  (So guys, earning enough to support your wife so she doesn't have to work will decrease the chances that she will cheat on you.  On the other hand, a husband who earns significantly more than a wife increases the chances he will cheat on her.)

If the wife earns more, the chances of being in a "happy" marriage are 25 percentage points less compared to marriages where the man earns more.  They were also more likely to have discussed separating.

According to a 2017 study by the Pew Center, 71% of people said it was important for a man to be a good financial provider.  And interestingly, in marriages where the man has a job, 71% of the time he earns more than the lady.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 28, 2018, 04:14:18 PM
I never claimed it was a rule.  But when close to 40% of women marry men who earn less than they do, your assertion is not a fact set in stone either. 


Each of the marriages I specifically referred to are long term, all over 20 years.  I can think of dozens more.  It is not a factor, at least, not among the professional class.  Perhaps working class couples have more issues with it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 28, 2018, 04:18:26 PM
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22008.msg488931#msg488931
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22008.msg488938#msg488938


I don't think Trench has the skill set with women to succeed with a WMVM strategy.  I believe a man has to be exceptionally comfortable with women, even "smooth", to succeed with this type of strategy.  It's not a criticism of Trench, just my perception of whether or not he'll succeed with this. 


Most FSUW can sense if a man is communicating with many women.  Many of them will not accept that after an initial meeting.  They won't tell him why, he'll assume it was a "lack of chemistry".  I think a man has to be supremely confident to pull off this type of strategy, and be ready to go home with zero success.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on July 28, 2018, 06:01:28 PM
To any normal thinking man with any experience of the opposite sex, this would never be an issue, that is simply something you never do, never ever ever ever... and 99.99999999997% of the male population knows this without having to be told..

do you want us to accompany you on your next trip and hold your hand also? Have the blanket and pacifier ready for when you get dumped again because you are simply not man enough for this..
you might be 40+ but your actions and thinking is one of a horny teenager with a hormone unbalance.


Aw c'mon relax. We're all kicking ideas back and forth and even bad ideas or experiences have a teaching element to them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on July 28, 2018, 07:17:49 PM

:offtopic:

Try looking at it from a statisticians perspective.  When taken in aggregate, women go for guys who are equal or higher in socio-economic status, which is heavily influenced by economic status.
Yes, there are exceptions where a girl goes for a guy who is lower status than her, but those are rare exceptions. 

I have a story about the first woman I dated after my divorce, karma and being an extreme exception to that rule. Probably will be a short novel, but I hope it will be as entertaining as a good trip report.

I've talked about my ex before and her behaviour during our relationship. After a series of affairs she hooked up with a special effects producer (now husband ) for RSP, who earns twice the amount than I do and before I kicked her, she let me know that..... FSU gold diggers have nothing on her!!!

Four months later I met a woman, i'll call "K", in a local pub (my mate was chatting up her friend and sent her my way). I was completely oblivious to her advances and can't even remember our conversation, as I was stressing due to a bogus DV order placed on me by my EX. All I remember is she looked pretty, but was intoxicated and a little disheveled. She was 28, 11 years younger than me. When she left she asked for my number.

I forgot all about the encounter until a month later when she called out of the blue and invited me for coffee at her local McDonald's, which by chance is where my daughter works. I changed the date to my local restaurant.

I arrived early and remember almost calling it off. I was in no frame of mind to start dating again and bringing a woman in to the mess that was my life was a huge mistake in my  mind.

10 minutes later a stunning blonde, petite woman walked in and my jaw hit the floor, she looked nothing like our first encounter and I had lost weight so my appearance had also changed.

We ordered coffee and sat down. Almost immediately she come out and told me my mate had given her a brief rundown of my situation, she was going through the same thing..... Husband (also a serial cheater) had cheated and left for another woman, leaving her with a young 3 year old daughter. The day we met, she was out on a pub crawl with her friend celebrating her filing for divorce.

It dawned on me that she had no interest in me, except someone to talk to and shares the same experience. For the first hour our conversation indicated this...... We shared our tale of misery and discussed our approaching court dates.

The last hour of our date was the  opposite, we talked about us,  our families, life goals etc... I was very natural and was as if we had known each other for years, she even began to flirt a little ;)

Our date drew to a conclusion. She had to return home as her baby sitter could only watch her daughter until 10pm. We both agreed we had a good time and decided to meet again the following week.

The next night we chatted for hours. The following evening after that,  I was preparing our car for a race meet the following day, which usually involves drinking bourbon and talking bs, with a little work thrown also. K called at 10 and asked if I wanted to go out and see some live music. I was happy to, but I couldn't drink as I was at my limit of passing the random breath testing that occurs in scrutineering. She was going to pick me up in an hour.

An hour and a half later, she called an was still getting ready.... This was something my ex excelled at. Finally she arrived in a nice new BMW that looked totally out of place next to my old SS commodore in the driveway. She suggested we go back to hers for some wine as the band had almost finished.

This is where panic set in. I could read between the lines, I knew where this was heading. I had spent the last 5 months on a crash diet and lost 100lbs, that with the stress of fighting a dv order,  family court and the fact  I had only been with one woman my whole life, made me concerned I wouldn't have any hope of performing in bed. I was nervous as all hell.

Although I knew my daughter worked in one of the most affluent suburbs of my city, I was not expecting to arrive at what could only be described as an 1800's mansion.... It made my 5 bedroom home look like a granny flat. K had said her husband had worked it the banking sector, so I suspected he has the one who enabled them to have such an amazing residence.

After a quick tour that ended in the wine cellar and almost finishing two bottles of red, I'm happy to say I had nothing to be concerned about in the down stairs department, in fact I spent the following hour largely thinking about sport so I didn't seem like a one minute wonder ;)..... I never made it to my race meet.

We discussed where or relationship was going and K made it clear that once her divorce was finalised and her house was sold, she would be returning to NSW to be with her family. She was really only looking for a causal relationship (but exclusive), with no strings attached. I was happy with this, I had a lot on my plate and didn't have the time to fully commit to a relationship.

Over the next 6 months we met for coffee at McDonald's every Thursday and spent every Saturday night together, partying and crashing at her house. She would never allow me to pay for anything despite my insistence.  I distanced my kids from the relationship as my ex had introduced them to her affair partner very early on and their reaction caused them to have emotional issues, which is the main reason I have custody of them and why my oldest 3 didn't have anything to do with their mother for over a year.

In a great dose of karma, my ex told me when she come to collect some clothes, a week after our break up, that I would never meet anyone as attractive as her and I would be alone forever.... The look on her face when she saw me after i'd lost weight and  with a stunningly attractive younger woman hanging off my arm, was priceless. My ex had just given birth to twins and her high flying lifestyle she had expected wasn't eventuating like she had  planned. Where I had turned my life around from a depressed shell of my former self to someone unrecognisable, in the space of 5-6 months.

K was awesome, she was always very positive and lifted my spirits even when things were getting nasty legally with my Ex. She helped me prepare for my court cases and although I had a very good lawyer, she seemed to have 24 hour phone access to her lawyer and he helped me out often with any legal questions or issues I had.

Eventually her divorce was finalised and regrettably her house was sold and she prepared to leave my state. We had fallen in love and she asked me to consider moving with her. I  considered it for an hour, but I concluded that I couldn't leave my kids because they refused to live with their mother.

She left, but we continued a long distance relationship. She returned on the Australia day long weekend as her uncle, who lived in Glenelg (a suburb by the sea and an entertainment precinct), was having his 60th birthday.

This is where every thing fell into place. She had told me that her father was born in the US and had been married previously to an american woman, they had a daughter and then divorced. Her dad was involved in mining and while in Australia met her mum. He moved to Australia with K's step sister not long after.
Her father had 2 brothers, one still in the US and the other fell in love with Australia and moved to Glenelg.

On the day of her uncles birthday we planned to travel to the airport and meet her family, including her uncle and cousins from the US. After I was going having lunch and get to know K's parents.

I knew something was odd when we didn't go to the domestic / international terminal, instead we arrived at a private hanger and I preceded to watch her family depart from a hired private jet. They had all flown in from Sydney, where K's parents live. I remember turning to K and saying you have some explaining to do, she gave me a wink and a cheeky grin.


On the trip back to their hotel in the city, she explained that her uncles and father were very successful business men and run a family company, that has it's hand in many interests in the US, Australia and South Africa. It  wasn't her husband that created their wealth it was her family. I won't talk  figures, but her personal expense account had a balance that is more than I will ever earn for the rest of my life.

We arrive at the Hyatt and went straight to the penthouse where k was staying with her parents. It was a real eye opener to how the other half live. We went to lunch at a small restaurant near the casino next door and I was amazed to find her parents were very down to earth and treated me like family. Later after a few drinks, her mum jokingly  grabbed me on the butt and said if her daughter didn't marry me she would!!

We went back to the penthouse to meet the rest of her family for pre-party drinks and cigars on the balcony. Her Uncle who's birthday it was, was going to the hospital to spend time with his wife, after a  minor operation, so we had some time to kill, before travelling to Glenelg for dinner at her uncles, friends restaurant.

Her uncle from the US is quite the gambler after several more rounds of Glenfiddich, we headed for the casino. I don't gamble at all, I feel guilty when I lose $5 on the pokies, so when I was invited to the Grange room (high roller) I didn't pass up the opportunity. Watching people gamble more $50,000+ on a hand of poker actually made me depressed. I stayed for two drinks and left K's uncle to it.

Eventually it was time to go to dinner so we planned to catch a lift with K's cousins who had hired a car for the weekend. Down in the car park, I was a little surprised to see K's cousins do a line of coke and K also did a little, which she had told me in the past she does occasionally  socially. I've smoked a little pot in my time, but I politely declined when offered some also.

It took them some convincing not to drive as random drug testing is quite common on the highway from the city to Glenelg, especially on a Saturday night. Kate called her uncle to pick me up on his return from the hospital,  she knew I was a car enthusiast and I was chauffeured to the party in a DB9 ( I still hang out with her uncle occasionally and have had the chance to dirive it at a track day, it makes my ex speedway supersedan feel like a shopping trolley )

Dinner was great, fresh Port Lincoln and Coffin bay, seafood (my stomping ground as a teenager) and the drinks flowed all night. After we went back to K's Uncles house, a modern 2 story mansion on the beach with an under ground man cave and bar.

 I don't drink often, but can hold my own. All night K's US cousins, who range from 21-25, were stirring me up how how Yanks can drink Aussies under the table, in a very light hearted international rivalry. After the formalities of the night were  finished I accepted a challenge (ignoring the alcohol ban on the beach), to go shot for shot until sunrise and then swim between two lines drawn on the sand. The winner takes the bragging rights. It was a matter of pride and I was the only one who managed to make it in the water, but I paid for it shocking for the next two days.

During the night I discussed with K, why she was so secretive about her families success and she said she had been bombarded by guys who only saw her for her families money after she broke up with her ex and dating a normal guy like me was a breath of fresh air. She did admit she only wanted someone to talk to who was going through the same situation, but one thing lead to another and here we were.

People are drawn together by circumstance good and bad. K was the first of 3 women I dated who were divorced due to an affair and even the FSU woman I talked to for the past year and a half was drawn to me due to the same situation regarding her ex and children's issues.... I'm happy to say after taking far too long to visit and her going cold on the idea, things have improved recently after some breathing space, I'm off too Russia in December to finally meet her.

Back to my long winded story......

A few days later k and her family were leaving and we again had lunch with her  parents. Her dad had a proposal for me. He offered me a job in one of his mining equipment businesses, as a  heavy machining supervisor (a job I've done before). It involve working on projects for a period of time in the factory and then flying out to help oversee the installation on predominantly Australian mine sites, but occasionally Papua New Guinea and the Kimberly region of South Africa.


This was an ideal opportunity. I was going to be paid 3 times the wage + a fifo bonus, a free house to live in (it was an investment property that needed some work), a company car and my kids would be put through a private school..... Even more important I would be with the woman I feel in love with. After talking to my lawyer, he said it would be difficult, but as my kids were estranged from their mother it could be a possibility to move them interstate.

My Ex was seething ..... I had achieved everything she wanted when we broke up. A wealthy partner and planned to live with her and our kids, in a family unit. She hired an absolute bitch of a lawyer and went to town on me and K in her affidavits. Eventually the judge ruled in her favour.

That was the beginning of the end for me and K. We did meet regularly, but it was difficult being apart and we both agreed that if we met other  people, as long as we were honest with each other before it got serious that we would move in  happily. She met someone first and I must admit it was hard for me, but when I met another woman k felt the same way. We have on occasion both been single since and have basically hooked up as it's comfortable and familiar. Who knows what the future holds, but it will be a good 7 years until my kids leave home and k is now running one of her family companies and is stationed in NSW. We still chat every couple of months and I catch up when she visits her uncle.

How does this all relate to trench? ..... I think I would still be struggling with dating if I didn't meet K (attempting to or dating anyone locally has to be your starting point). She took me from a bad place to a positive place. I regained my confidence and realised anything is possible with the right attitude and not letting her be the blame for my insecurities, which were many back then.... That's what you need to be attractive and successful in dating or anything in life. Not arrogant confidence, just a belief that you are a great catch and better than the other guys who are your competition.

The women who have come into my life and  best suited me (apart from k) has been when I have been happy, enjoying life and not even looking for someone.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 28, 2018, 08:32:30 PM
Quote
But when close to 40% of women marry men who earn less than they do, your assertion is not a fact set in stone either.

Where are you coming up with 40% of women marrying men who earn less than them?  That is NOT what the research data indicates.  The data indicates that right after tons of guys lost their jobs after the 2008 recession, 38% of wives were earning more than their husbands.  However, if both were working, only 23% of wives out earned their husbands consistently over several years.

Furthermore, the research data says NOTHING about their incomes when the relationship began, which is what I am discussing.  That is the question you need to focus on.  It is irrelevant to look at income disparities after they have been married.  You need to look at how many women were out earning the men when their relationships began. 

40% of women are not marrying men who earn less than them.  That income disparity may occur after they have been married, but they are not entering that relationship with that kind of disparity.

Davo, you have just showed how you can never divorce someone if you have kids.  She was looking for a rebound fling, just something to help her self-esteem.  You were someone disposable, simply because you were in a lower socio-economic position.  That is what she was looking for.  Do you really think she would have looked for a rebound fling from someone who was in a comparable status to her?  I think not.

And, people who use cocaine or other drugs are not exactly known for making normal choices, nor are they what most people would consider to be relationship material.

msmob, I'm still waiting on you to clarify your post about the guy who had interesting viewpoints of the ideal woman.  It sure appeared that you were making a dig at me.  Your post gives the impression that you thought my comment about 'how many women of similar age is he going to find who have never been married, have no kids, physically fit, no tattoos, doesn't abuse alcohol or drugs or tobacco, has Christian values, etc.?' was a descriptor of my ideal woman, but I don't want to jump to that conclusion and make any assumptions.  (If you do in fact think that is a description of anyone's ideal woman, then that is terribly pathetic and incredibly sad, and speaks volumes about your values, and the quality, or lack thereof, of the women you have encountered in life.  That description was a bare-bones minimum standard for me to consider looking further to examine the prospects of a potential relationship with a girl.  If someone thinks that is a description of an ideal lady, that means they have standards that are much, much lower than that, which is really sad.)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on July 28, 2018, 08:33:44 PM
Talking about Infidelity, due to my past I've been a moderator on Infidelity recovery sites and over the past 3 years have helped many including some face to face heal.

There are reports I've read that indicate that 70% of long term relationships / have had single incidents, emotional affairs or full blown physical affairs and given the people I talk to, it is spread right across the spectrum and even very happy marriages. 70% seems high, but many people are embarrassed even to admit it being an abuser or a victim during  anonymous surveys. I've been there. I hid it for more than 20 years. Don't ever think you are immune to it, while you're innocently on this site, what's your partner doing???


Women are catching up to men and may even surpass men now, again as men are less likely to admit they have been cheated on even in anonymous surveys. Looking at the traffic on affair recover sites, it's probably 50/50. I'm a member of a single father's group of 10,000 and in a recent survey 41% had experienced some form of Infidelity.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 28, 2018, 08:51:33 PM
And the reason for all the infidelity?  If you don't know what causes it, you can never know how to prevent it...

Technically, if one spouse is spending so much time on kids that the other spouse feels neglected, that is considered an emotional affair.

Personally, I don't buy into the emotional affair stuff, because it is based upon how the victim feels, rather than what the other person actually does.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 28, 2018, 09:05:47 PM
Once again, BF  you haven't experienced  such situations as either the 'victim' or perpetrator ?

WHY are  you posting theorised bolllox about LTR;s you have zip experience off ?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 28, 2018, 10:00:45 PM
Msmob, once again, you are the one posting the bollox, when you don't know what you are talking about.

Just because someone has never been married doesn't mean they have never had a long term relationship.  It just means that for whatever reason, they have managed to avoid the pitfalls and mistakes made by people who got married and divorced.

However, if someone is divorced, we know they don't know how to have a successful marriage.  They know how to fail, and that they accept failure as an option.  (If they do not accept failure, they would dedicate their lives to trying to reconcile.)  We also know that if they ever pursue another relationship after divorce, that means they have no integrity and can never be trusted.  After all, they gave their word to someone who was supposed to be the most important person in the world to them, that they would never leave, no matter what, and they would never get involved with anyone else until death parted them.
A person is only as good as their word.  If they will break their word to the person who is supposed to be the most important person in the world to them, how can anyone else ever trust anything they say?

People of good intentions make promises.
People of good character keep their promises.

Quote
WHY are  you posting theorised bolllox about LTR;s you have zip experience off ?

Perhaps a better question is, why are you posting bollox about marriages, when you have dishonored your marital vows?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 28, 2018, 10:16:35 PM
Msmob, once again, you are the one posting the bollox, when you don't know what you are talking about.

You remind me of a RC Priest 'advising' folks on relationships

Just because someone has never been married doesn't mean they have never had a long term relationship.  It just means that for whatever reason, they have managed to avoid the pitfalls and mistakes made by people who got married and divorced.

From how you have posted on your ideal relationship - ( particularly the lady's previous sexual experience ) I'm wondering if that is some kind of 'excuse' ? 


However, if someone is divorced, we know they don't know how to have a successful marriage. 

WRONG .. it is entirely possible to marry someone who changes their behaviour and becomes 'unreasonable' ...  That is but one circumstance ...You just proved your 'expertise' to comment on such matters ... thanks ...


Perhaps a better question is, why are you posting bollox about marriages, when you have dishonored your marital vows?

I'm posting from having worn the t-shirt and accepting my part in any failure ....   Hardly 'bollox'...

It's FAR more relevant and pertinent than your wacko 'theorising'

Indeed, I have vowed before God Almighty - and broken those wows...  not without a GREAT deal of careful thought and the happiness of my daughters - seeking council from the Church ..

'Carry on' ...




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 28, 2018, 10:50:22 PM
Just because someone has never been married doesn't mean they have never had a long term relationship.  It just means that for whatever reason, they have managed to avoid the pitfalls and mistakes made by people who got married and divorced.


Sorry, I disagree with this.  Until you have lived with someone, day in, day out, for years,  you do not truly know that person.  Sometimes, even when you have lived together, you don't know the person.  You will also get a completely different understanding of your partner if you have children together.  You will see facets of your partner you have never seen before, probably both positive and negative.  Children cause a lot of stress on good parents, and on a marriage. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on July 28, 2018, 11:09:29 PM
Affairs are caused by many  reasons.... Iike you have suggested, one spouse feeling neglected and someone comes along at the right time and makes them feel special. They get all those magic feelings of a new relationship that their husband or wife can never give them again, once they have been together for a while. The affair couple enter what's commonly called an affair fog, where all there thoughts and effort are put into their affair partner and not their children or betrayed partner.

In my ex's case, her family has a many instances of mental illness. My ex involved her  niece  in two affairs and when it was all exposed, her niece committed  suicide. My ex has undiagnosed bipolar and refuses to get help. It was quite obvious from a young age and often with bipolar a sufferer has a propensity to be unfaithful.

Emotional affairs are real. Usually it's a stepping stone to a full blown affair, but sometimes the person snaps out of it before too much damage occurs. Many members of these sites post messages they have found on their loved ones phones and computers, often hidden.  They have not been intimate with  someone, but expressed love for, or sent sexually explicit messages between each other, it is more damaging than finding your partner having a meaningless one night stand. As they have basically given their heart to someone else.

The internet has made it far easier to cheat and have an affair. We even have adverts on TV encouraging affairs, such as Ashley Madison. I was a victim of that campaign, with my ex's last affair. 

You might say society is lacking the morals that once existed when many more were attending church. The thing that I found very surprising on these recovery sites is that many of the US members where regular church goers and countless times their partners were having affairs with other congregation members and even the odd occasion with the church elder or his wife.

There are lots of good reasons to divorce when you have kids, I'm a classic example. We got married far too young. I over looked many red flags that were even obvious to me in my teens. I'm pretty placid and she made almost every decision in out lives. I stayed with her far too long and in fact I was going to leave her when I was 22. I suspected her of having an affair with my mate, which turned out to be true. She admitted trapping me in the relationship after going off the pill and deliberately getting  pregnant. Spending 9 months being congratulated on a pregnancy that could be a result of your best mate, is absolutely demoralising. Luckily or unluckily for me my daughter is biologically mine. It takes a good seven hours to explain the true level of betrayal I went through in the condensed  form, I grantee you would have divorced, kids or no kids after the first 10 minutes.

My kids all have reasonable relationship with there mum, they all top their class at school, they all help around the house and the older ones started working at 14. They have a better appreciation for what it's like to be a family than what they did before and are far more skilled that most kids are with two parents regarding general life skills, but it did come at a cost of dealing with some very disturbing behaviour as the oldest 3 discovered their mother's affair before I did. Lastly they have the father they should have had from birth if I was in a caring mutually respectful  relationship.

One thing you tend to find with divorced people, especially at our age is honesty!!, as we all admit we have made mistakes and I'm one also. There's some things I aren't proud of. Those who can reflect on this have a good understanding of what's needed to have a successful relationship. Many divorced people stay and work on their marriages far longer than you would ever have the mental  stamina to with stand. Try surviving 10+ incidents of infidelity, it's likely one would destroy you and you would break your promise.

On Divorced women, they come with an instruction manual on how to make them happy and all it takes is to listen regarding their reasons for the failure of their marriage and their feelings. Trench, don't ever overlook a divorced woman, in my experience they are often much more tolerant, will communicate there issues in a far superior way, appreciate a good man when they have come from a bad situation. They will over look petty issues like class, if you show them kindness and love, because that's more important to them.

On "K".... I wasnt her rebound, if anything she was mine. I met her after her being in several short  relationships, with men who would be viewed as a higher social class than me. Her divorce took a long time to initiate as she was hopeful she could reconcile with her  husband, but eventually he got his mistress pregnant also. She also had the issue of protecting her assets so she didn't want to rush into it.

What she got from me was a guy who could sympathise with her, a guy who wasn't career driven and was more family orientated and could provide a stable environment for her  child, as when I came along she hadn't seen her father for two years. What can you offer a woman who has everything???
 something she has never had, a man who views her as a person not someone who can is an easy way to climb the corporate ladder or status. We still have a great emotional connection, it wouldn't take much to resurrect our relationship and we have in the past talked about marriage, I was the man who both she and her family could see was right for her. A rebound doesn't get offered with welcome arms and set up financially. It was my situation that caused the issues ..... Wealth, success and perceived social class does not make you a good  husband, it's just that type of men who treated her badly.

Drugs not the best thing for someone to do, but I'd much rather be with someone who might do it in small amounts twice a year, than be with someone like my ex who went out every weekend and come home so drunk she couldn't walk or talk and would spend all Sunday in bed hungover..... Try surviving that for 20+ years without considering a  divorce!!

Australia is a little different to the US.... It's been said many times that we have no obvious class structure, at least in a social sense. It's not uncommon to see a millionaire talking to a garbage man at a pub or footy, both have equal respect for each other and will treat each other as mates. It's something that k's dad talked about also on several occasions. His mindset changed once he lived here.

I work for a multinational agricultural company and it's quite obvious in our work environment also. Our Australian division turns over 100+ million a year and our CEO is quite often found on the workshop floor in his overalls working along side guys on $20 an hour. After he will call in at the local pub for a beer with us. His attitude and nature would never give away his success.

There are many theories on this, but the predominantly accepted one is many of us come from a convict back ground and many of the rejects of British society eventually became far more wealthy and successful than the judges and high society that put them on the ships to Australia, due to agriculture and especially wool. This lead to a general feeling that no one is any more special than anyone else. Defiantly not our English over lords ;)

Lastly regarding FSU woman ( again I have no real time experience) ... I had to supply my pay slips for her visa application (failed) and she thought I was on a high wage but in fact it's only slightly above average. I googled her current position in Australia and she would be on 20-30 k more than me. She was very surprised that a woman would earn more, but I explained at in middle to upper middle class society in Australia, it's often the wife who earns more than the husband and gave her examples of this with my friends who i'd talked about in the past. She found this idea quite liberating :)

Anyway I've dribble far too much shit today.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 29, 2018, 12:25:54 AM

Sorry, I disagree with this.  Until you have lived with someone, day in, day out, for years,  you do not truly know that person.  Sometimes, even when you have lived together, you don't know the person.  You will also get a completely different understanding of your partner if you have children together.  You will see facets of your partner you have never seen before, probably both positive and negative.  Children cause a lot of stress on good parents, and on a marriage.

EXACTLY
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 29, 2018, 08:26:10 AM
Quote
You remind me of a RC Priest 'advising' folks on relationships

Then maybe there is some wisdom you refuse to accept.

Quote
WRONG .. it is entirely possible to marry someone who changes their behaviour and becomes 'unreasonable' ...  That is but one circumstance ...You just proved your 'expertise' to comment on such matters ... thanks ...

Core values don't change without some kind of serious spiritual or traumatic event.

Normally what happens, is that they did not change.  Their partner had simply never got to know them completely.

Quote
I'm posting from having worn the t-shirt and accepting my part in any failure ....   Hardly 'bollox'...

It's FAR more relevant and pertinent than your wacko 'theorising'

Indeed, I have vowed before God Almighty - and broken those wows...  not without a GREAT deal of careful thought and the happiness of my daughters - seeking council from the Church ..

Divorce is to some degree the relationship equivalent of financial bankruptcy.  Call it relationship bankruptcy if you will.
The absolute worst person to get financial advice from is someone who has went bankrupt.  They may know all the ins and outs of bankruptcy, but they are a failure at avoiding bankruptcy. (divorced)
The best person to get financial advice from is someone who has became wealthy through their hard work and wise choices. (happily married)
Someone who strives to become wealthy, and has never went bankrupt may not be able to give you financial advice as good as someone who is wealthy, but it is still head and shoulders better than someone who has went bankrupt. (never married)

Divorce is the refusal to accept responsibility for the commitment someone made.

Quote
Sorry, I disagree with this.  Until you have lived with someone, day in, day out, for years,  you do not truly know that person.   Sometimes, even when you have lived together, you don't know the person.  You will also get a completely different understanding of your partner if you have children together.  You will see facets of your partner you have never seen before, probably both positive and negative.  Children cause a lot of stress on good parents, and on a marriage. 

You may not know every nuance of the person, but you should know how they handle conflict resolution, their ability to work together or compromise, how they handle adversity, etc.  You should know their core value structure, and their life views.  If you don't know someone this well, then you don't know them well enough to marry them.

Only fools enter marriage with their eyes shut.  It is a very big decision, that should be entered after serious introspection.  It is the most important decision of your life, and should not be taken lightly. 
But once you choose to marry someone, you give a vow that you will stay together, no matter what.  You give a vow that you will place the well-being of your partner and children over your own selfish desires.  You honor your responsibility and commitment.

Marriage is sacred to some people.

Quote
Affairs are caused by many  reasons....

I disagree.  I believe affairs and divorces are caused by only one reason.  Selfishness.

When you marry, you agree to place what is best for your partner and children over your selfish desires.  You agree to make sacrifices.  You agree to work through problems.  It is win-win for everyone.
When someone begins to place their selfish desires over the family, the relationship breaks down, and it becomes a lose-lose situation.

You get what you give.  And when you stop giving...

Quote
There are lots of good reasons to divorce when you have kids, I'm a classic example. We got married far too young. I over looked many red flags that were even obvious to me in my teens.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Divorce is never good when you have kids.  It may be the lesser of two evils, but there is never a good reason for divorce.
And pursuing another relationship after divorce if you have kids...my goodness, the rate of child abuse is 8 times higher.  30% of those kids are abused.

I know people whose spouses have mental illnesses, and they remain together.  I know marriages that have survived infidelity.  Granted, it takes an enormous amount of work to repair the damage.  But for some people, it's easier to run from problems than to work to fix them.  But when they do that, they never learn how to fix problems.  They just keep running from the problems for the rest of their lives.

The proper solution is to learn how to avoid marriage with bad apples, and to have the strength to stand up for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2kLBqlOfs
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 29, 2018, 08:59:18 AM
Then maybe there is some wisdom you refuse to accept.

But you STILL remind me of someone even you would ignore -....

Core values don't change without some kind of serious spiritual or traumatic event.

You see ? ... You haven't lived such stuff -and it is clear ...  I judged that it was better to end a marriage than my kids endure my wife's unreasonable behaviour ...  I STILL value marriage, fidelity and think pre-nups are for those who shouldn't GET married 

Below is UTTER TWADDLE..It is SO clear you haven't worn the t-shirt and are commenting from the 'clueless corner' :

Divorce is to some degree the relationship equivalent of financial bankruptcy.  Call it relationship bankruptcy if you will.
The absolute worst person to get financial advice from is someone who has went bankrupt.  They may know all the ins and outs of bankruptcy, but they are a failure at avoiding bankruptcy. (divorced)
The best person to get financial advice from is someone who has became wealthy through their hard work and wise choices. (happily married)
Someone who strives to become wealthy, and has never went bankrupt may not be able to give you financial advice as good as someone who is wealthy, but it is still head and shoulders better than someone who has went bankrupt. (never married)


Your analogy SUCKS and your very own 'leader' enjoys the support of the GOP - despite his taking folks / banks and being a serial misogynist ... hmmm  So much for 'core values' in 'Merica ?

Divorce is the refusal to accept responsibility for the commitment someone made.

Divorce is not a process one undertakes lightly - indeed - on behalf of at least one partner - it suggests accepting responsibility to sort out a bad situation

You may not know every nuance of the person, but you should know how they handle conflict resolution, their ability to work together or compromise, how they handle adversity, etc.  You should know their core value structure, and their life views.  If you don't know someone this well, then you don't know them well enough to marry them.

Really, you simply cannot have had LTRs - as many of us KEEP pointing out that you can live with someone decades and they can change to the point living together becomes impossible

Only fools enter marriage with their eyes shut.  It is a very big decision, that should be entered after serious introspection.  It is the most important decision of your life, and should not be taken lightly. 
But once you choose to marry someone, you give a vow that you will stay together, no matter what.  You give a vow that you will place the well-being of your partner and children over your own selfish desires.  You honor your responsibility and commitment.

Such 'fine' words - but it takes NO account that most people love each other when they marry

Marriage is sacred to some people.

I did not marry young and sought a partner who I THOUGHT had the same values as I ...   I expect many members will be shaking their heads at your making a SPECTACULAR ass of yourself

I disagree.  I believe affairs and divorces are caused by only one reason.  Selfishness.

I've never been unfaithful to my partner - I HAVE entered into a relationship when we have separated for some time and we have commenced divorce proceedings or signed a separation agreement ...  Once again, your words are those of a pompous ass

When you marry, you agree to place what is best for your partner and children over your selfish desires.  You agree to make sacrifices.  You agree to work through problems.  It is win-win for everyone.
When someone begins to place their selfish desires over the family, the relationship breaks down, and it becomes a lose-lose situation.

You get what you give.  And when you stop giving...

Your just can't stop with the Bollox...  WHAT happens when the bread-winner HAS to move - to 'win' for the family and t'other partner doesn't WANT to move ?    Who should compromise ?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Quite ...   there comes a time - when the RIGHT thing to do is to end wrongs ...

Divorce is never good when you have kids.  It may be the lesser of two evils, but there is never a good reason for divorce.


You ARE an idiot ... When kids live in a abusive relationship - when one partner is controlling, violent, jealous and involves the kids - best to remove oneself - for THEIR sake

And pursuing another relationship after divorce if you have kids...my goodness, the rate of child abuse is 8 times higher.  30% of those kids are abused.

'Ri-ight' ...  more bollox 'stats' from the 'expert' ...   My daughters would tell you that life with us apart was FAR better...  that their step-dad - for the most part - tolerated the excesses of their Ma.

I know people whose spouses have mental illnesses, and they remain together.  I know marriages that have survived infidelity.  Granted, it takes an enormous amount of work to repair the damage.  But for some people, it's easier to run from problems than to work to fix them.  But when they do that, they never learn how to fix problems.  They just keep running from the problems for the rest of their lives.

One's partner becoming infirm  or 'losing it' is something we may encounter later in life - getting 'practice' with elderly parents ...  Again do you have ANY experience of caring for a partner / parent so afflicted ...  There's plenty of evidence that spending one's time away from the afflicted partner HELPS ....   it does not have to mean infidelity / lack of care

The proper solution is to learn how to avoid marriage with bad apples, and to have the strength to stand up for yourself.



Haha, I'd like to see you 'stand-up for yourself' and tell your partner, "you're not being selfish " ... 

'Carry on' ..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 29, 2018, 10:16:57 AM
Msmob, once again, you are the one posting the bollox, when you don't know what you are talking about.

Just because someone has never been married doesn't mean they have never had a long term relationship.  It just means that for whatever reason, they have managed to avoid the pitfalls and mistakes made by people who got married and divorced.

However, if someone is divorced, we know they don't know how to have a successful marriage.  They know how to fail, and that they accept failure as an option.  (If they do not accept failure, they would dedicate their lives to trying to reconcile.)  We also know that if they ever pursue another relationship after divorce, that means they have no integrity and can never be trusted.  After all, they gave their word to someone who was supposed to be the most important person in the world to them, that they would never leave, no matter what, and they would never get involved with anyone else until death parted them.
A person is only as good as their word.  If they will break their word to the person who is supposed to be the most important person in the world to them, how can anyone else ever trust anything they say?

People of good intentions make promises.
People of good character keep their promises.

Perhaps a better question is, why are you posting bollox about marriages, when you have dishonored your marital vows?
I’m sorry, but this is just twaddle. Marriages fail for all kinds of reasons, none of which have anything to do with your sanctimonious tripe above.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 29, 2018, 01:43:54 PM

I can totally relate to this Gaspar as my situation with that the last girl I was with was much the same. She ordered a plate of Mousaka and barely touched it, even the waiter noticed and commented as well. This was after I told her we had just eaten a couple of hours or so ago. Like your girl she was supposed to come from a poor background but acted like a spoilt LA brat. She apparently like in a small cramped apartment in a concrete block. I was dumbstruck at this sheer wasteful attitude. It was like her flushing my money down the toilet and not caring. To me eden someone you don't like that much this is beyond disrespectful. I had bought her clothes, gave her a small amount of money, paid for all flights, accomodation and car hire (& drove). I had talked to her and tried to be nice to her and yet apparently my walet still deserved to be trashed needless in this manner. Then she had the cheek to demand I get her a tourist visa on top of that. Totally demented behaviour. I don't really care if a guy is X amount of years older than the girl, there is still a basic minimum of respect one should have. If I had been a real arsehole I could understand it, but I had not. This was all in Cyprus so though probably not as expensive as Paris prices not exactly cheap like Ukraine prices either.

So no they don't appreciate it, even when their actions say they do their actions say otherwise. I find with a lot of FSW I message that they have this 'I'm the boss attitude' What is it with that? It's just bizarre and makes them difficult to deal with. I'm guessing that is why they are single as most FSUM can't deal with it either and pass over them. Is a sense of reasonableness too much to ask for, lol.

You were told that unlike most Westerners, Ukrainians (and Russians) don't go to restaurants to tie on a feedbag.  They go to try dishes they don't cook and normally would not eat.  For her, this was a status thing.  How many times do you need this to be explained to you?  It had zero to do with respect.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2018, 01:54:54 PM
You were told that unlike most Westerners, Ukrainians (and Russians) don't go to restaurants to tie on a feedbag.  They go to try dishes they don't cook and normally would not eat.  For her, this was a status thing.  How many times do you need this to be explained to you?  It had zero to do with respect.

For a Ukrainian it may have zero to do with respect for a westerner it very much does. Don't they even try to get educated in western ways/manners before dating? We do there is loads of stuff out there on the internet. Even when explaining to these girls they don't pick up, it's just plain rude and bad manners. Surely when they go to restaurants at home the Ukrainian man does not sit back while they act as such numpties and rack up a nice huge bill for him?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 29, 2018, 02:03:09 PM
Does it really?  I'm a Westerner, and would have zero issues with someone not eating what they ordered in a restaurant.  Perhaps they didn't like it. 

Can you point me to the etiquette guide which states one is obliged to finish all the food on his/her plate in a restaurant? 

A normal UM would never tell his date to finish everything on her plate, if she chose not to eat something.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2018, 02:26:01 PM
Does it really?  I'm a Westerner, and would have zero issues with someone not eating what they ordered in a restaurant.  Perhaps they didn't like it. 

Can you point me to the etiquette guide which states one is obliged to finish all the food on his/her plate in a restaurant? 

A normal UM would never tell his date to finish everything on her plate, if she chose not to eat something.

Perhaps they then should pay, at least to offer only seems polite to do so.

These Ukrainians can't be as bad off as they make out. My mother would eat whatever's on her plate whether she liked it or not. She would even finish other people's plates after her own if they did not like something on it. Even if she was full after eating her own meal and struggling to put it away. Why? Because she grew up during post WWII times of rationing and hardship. Essentially not wasting anything as you didn't know where you're next meal was coming, food was scarce.

Yet here we have these so called hard up Ukrainians who are happy to just leave food to go to waste. I don't understand it, it just doesn't add up to me. Even when I was growing up in the eighties as a child, no it was not poor like post war but I was generally expected to eat most of the food provided for me. I NEVER have ever just taken one bite off a plate and then refused the rest or ordered another plate off the main course, another plate! I mean that's just insane.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 29, 2018, 02:36:13 PM
Having enough food has never been an issue in Ukraine, other than during forced collectivization and war.  If you travel in Central or Southern Ukraine, you will see rows and rows of fallen fruit, there is so much that people don't even pick it.  Living in poverty is about more than food. 

In Ukraine, women do not pay when they date.  Didn't you say you want an FSUW because you don't like WW's emancipation?  You have to accept their cultural norms if you want a woman who is traditional by their cultural norms.  The restaurant stuff is about going home and boasting.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2018, 02:51:12 PM
Having enough food has never been an issue in Ukraine, other than during forced collectivization and war.  If you travel in Central or Southern Ukraine, you will see rows and rows of fallen fruit, there is so much that people don't even pick it.  Living in poverty is about more than food. 


In Ukraine, women do not pay when they date.  Didn't you say you want an FSUW because you don't like WW's emancipation?  You have to take their culture if you want a woman who is traditional by their cultural norms.

Ah, so that's why they are so thin, they order food/have it available but never eat it, lol.

So what is the guy supposed to do like in Gaspar's case here, just ride out the pain being inflicted on his wallet? Surely a Ukrainian man does not do that, a Ukrainian man still has to pay and as we know money is something Ukrainian men are usually short on.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 29, 2018, 02:52:48 PM
They're thin because they walk everywhere.

A UM would know who he is dealing with from Day 1, and would act accordingly.

Now put on your big boy pants, stop whinging, and say to yourself, "I chose a woman who was too young for me, and was not looking for a serious relationship.  I allowed her to manipulate me.  It was a learning experience."
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 29, 2018, 02:59:23 PM
PS - Also stop assuming that because Ukrainians are poor, they should accept with gratitude whatever you offer them, and just shut up about it.  That's in no way normal in any relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 29, 2018, 03:03:52 PM
They're thin because they walk everywhere.


A UM would know who he is dealing with from Day 1, and would act accordingly.
It's hopeless, Bo. Why this clueless Brit us looking for a FSUW is beyond me. He wants traditional, just not FSU traditional. Of course, he wants the arm candy flashing a bit of leg and cleavage to impress his mates down the pub although he's also scared stiff of her dumping him for the first better option that shows up. The good thing is that any FSUW will suss him out easily and realise that Trench really is at the bottom of the dirty barrel of WM.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2018, 03:10:44 PM
She chose me, I brought up about the age difference but she stated she was not too young. Yes I learnt a lot from he experience.

I guess food in restaurants food is generally cheap compared to the west so not as big a deal.

I guess at least the girl I was with didn't order second main course dishes and they were ever day restaurants so I did better than Gaspar there. I just lost out on her manipulative nature in buying her stuff. So what I gained on the swings I lost on the roundabout you could say.

Yes a Ukrainian man can no doubt weigh them up and act accordingly. The more I get experience of this scene the better I will get at it I think.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2018, 03:14:06 PM
...although he's also scared stiff of her dumping him for the first better option that shows up.

No longer I think I have finally got that issue squared away ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 29, 2018, 03:17:52 PM
No longer I think I have finally got that issue squared away ;D
No, you most definitely haven't got anything squared away. IF, and that's the mother of all ifs, you ever dupe a FSUW into marrying you, you won't stay married for long.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 29, 2018, 06:30:02 PM
She chose me, I brought up about the age difference but she stated she was not too young. Yes I learnt a lot from he experience.

You still met with her, therefore, you chose her.  You also chose to take her on vacation, and where to stay.  You could have chosen an apartment and cooked her meals.

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I guess food in restaurants food is generally cheap compared to the west so not as big a deal.

For a Ukrainian, food in restaurants is not cheap.

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I guess at least the girl I was with didn't order second main course dishes and they were ever day restaurants so I did better than Gaspar there. I just lost out on her manipulative nature in buying her stuff. So what I gained on the swings I lost on the roundabout you could say.

If she manipulated you, you chose to allow her to do that.

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Yes a Ukrainian man can no doubt weigh them up and act accordingly. The more I get experience of this scene the better I will get at it I think.

I don't say this with any malice intended, but, I don't think so.  When you met a sincere woman in L'viv, you unwittingly pushed her away, a cultural miscue, but it was pretty basic.  You can't be hand held, or learn everything online.


Finally, you don't marry a culture.  You marry a person. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 29, 2018, 07:46:59 PM
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I judged that it was better to end a marriage than my kids endure my wife's unreasonable behaviour ...  I STILL value marriage, fidelity and think pre-nups are for those who shouldn't GET married 

You agreed for better or for WORSE.  You knew there was a risk of "unreasonable behavior."
You agreed as a condition for being allowed to marry, that even if it failed (the for worse) you would never have a relationship with anyone else until the woman you were marrying died.

You agreed that if the marriage failed, you would remain single, or attempt to reconcile, until one of you died.  You can not say that marriage is sacred or that you value marriage if you have ever had a relationship with someone else after your day if the person you married is still alive.  No ifs, ands, or buts.

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Your analogy SUCKS and your very own 'leader' enjoys the support of the GOP - despite his taking folks / banks and being a serial misogynist ... hmmm  So much for 'core values' in 'Merica ?

Trump is not my leader.  He is the President of the USA, elected when 58% of registered voters cast their vote, believing him to be the lesser of two evils.
Frankly, Trump is irrelevant.  I won't go to Heaven or Hell because of his actions.  He does not affect my honor or integrity, and my values are not dependent upon him.

My analogy was very good, and you are upset with the messenger simply because you don't like the message.

20 years ago, I took a mail order course on Successful Investing and Money Management.  At that time, it said that 4% of the population earned $100K+ a year.  It said that if someone's goal was to earn $100K a year, who should they consult for advice - someone in the 4% who had actually achieved that, or should they get financial advice from someone in the 96%?  Sadly, most people get their financial advice from the 96%.
Marriage is no different.  If you want a successful, happy marriage, you should seek out the small percentage of marriages that have achieved the level of success you seek.  It is very foolish to seek relationship advice from people who are divorced, or otherwise do not have the level of marital success you are seeking.

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Divorce is not a process one undertakes lightly - indeed - on behalf of at least one partner - it suggests accepting responsibility to sort out a bad situation

The question is not if someone gets divorced, but if they do what they agreed and remain single and try to reconcile until one of them dies, or if they dishonor themselves by having a relationship with someone else.

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Really, you simply cannot have had LTRs - as many of us KEEP pointing out that you can live with someone decades and they can change to the point living together becomes impossible

Well, gee, if I wasn't in a long term relationship with a girl for 4.5 years, what the heck was it?

I try to be observant and study people, and relationships.  There's something I've noticed.  The amount of effort a man puts forth into getting to know a girl before they have sex tends to be the limit of the effort he will ever put forth.  As soon as he has sex, he's not really interested in getting to know the girl any better.

For MANY men, their ideal marriage consists of the little more than a one-night stand with the same woman every night, with a comparable level of emotional involvement that he would have with any one-night stand.
And then years down the road, the guy claims the woman changed.  No she didn't.  The guy just never took the time to really know the lady, and she finally got fed up with being treated like a one-night stand.

Boethius is the one who keeps trying to hammer the point that you never know someone until you live with them.  I consider the source.  If you decide to marry someone after one week, you aren't really going to know them until after you have lived with them.  Personally, I believe that it is possible to really know someone to a very high degree before you have lived with them, but it takes a lot of time and work.

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Such 'fine' words - but it takes NO account that most people love each other when they marry

That's irrelevant.  Yes, it's very important to love each other, but if the only reason two people are marrying is because they love each other, they don't have any business marrying.  Just because you love someone does not mean that they are marriage material or that they have the qualities or characteristics to be a good partner.

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I did not marry young and sought a partner who I THOUGHT had the same values as I ...   I expect many members will be shaking their heads at your making a SPECTACULAR ass of yourself

The only people making a fool of themselves are those who agree to remain single or reconcile or the marriage fails, and then they have a relationship with someone else before the person they married dies.

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I've never been unfaithful to my partner - I HAVE entered into a relationship when we have separated for some time and we have commenced divorce proceedings or signed a separation agreement ...  Once again, your words are those of a pompous ass

Unless they died, if you have a relationship with anyone else you are being unfaithful.  You are dishonoring the agreement you made.  You agreed that even if the marriage failed, you would never have a relationship with anyone else until after they were dead.

Once again, your words are those of a spoiled brat who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

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WHAT happens when the bread-winner HAS to move - to 'win' for the family and t'other partner doesn't WANT to move ?    Who should compromise ?

Unless a gun is being held to their head, they don't "have" to move.  There are always other options.
They can always find another job locally.  As long as you have enough money to keep the bill collectors at bay (somewhere between poverty and lower class) having more money does little to increase the quality or happiness of your life.  It may be the difference of driving a Cadillac or a Ford, or living in a mansion or a 1500 square foot home, but the quality of their life is very similar.
I have known people where one spouse worked away from home, and was only home on the weekends.  They didn't get divorced.

And maybe our differences of opinion may be in part due to Americans having a mindset of a free person, and Europeans having the mindset of a subject or serf, like Tocqueville noted.

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Quite ...   there comes a time - when the RIGHT thing to do is to end wrongs ...

And how does having a relationship with someone else have anything to do with ending wrongs?  It doesn't.
If the least worst solution to wrongs is to separate, then separate, and either remain alone or reconcile, like you agreed to do.

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You ARE an idiot ... When kids live in a abusive relationship - when one partner is controlling, violent, jealous and involves the kids - best to remove oneself - for THEIR sake

Divorce may be the least worst solution, but it is never good.  Divorce is always bad, and only an idiot would suggest that divorce was a good thing.  If divorce was a good thing, everyone would enjoy doing it...but for some reason, divorce tends to be a very painful and very not-enjoyable thing for people to do.

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'Ri-ight' ...  more bollox 'stats' from the 'expert' ...   My daughters would tell you that life with us apart was FAR better...  that their step-dad - for the most part - tolerated the excesses of their Ma.

Once again, "far better" may be the least worst solution, but it was not good.  Compared to children in stable hones with both biological parents, children of divorced families don't do as well.  Yes, there are exceptions where children with both parents have a miserable time, and single parents who do great, but when you look at it in aggregate, children from broken homes suffer much more.

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One's partner becoming infirm  or 'losing it' is something we may encounter later in life -

You agreed "for better or worse," knowing that part of for worse is the aging process...

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Again do you have ANY experience of caring for a partner / parent so afflicted ... 

Yes, I do.  I have a widow neighbor lady who is almost 80 who has health issues and is pretty much housebound.  I stop by everyday, and do what needs done.

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Haha, I'd like to see you 'stand-up for yourself' and tell your partner, "you're not being selfish " ... 

That's normally a big compliment, although it's usually phrased as them being selfless.

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Marriages fail for all kinds of reasons, none of which have anything to do with your sanctimonious tripe above.

Marriages fail because of selfishness.  One person begins to put their desires over what is best for the family.  It builds resentment, and everything goes downhill.

This may manifest itself in many ways, but this is the reason marriages fail.

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For a Ukrainian it may have zero to do with respect for a westerner it very much does. Don't they even try to get educated in western ways/manners before dating? We do there is loads of stuff out there on the internet. Even when explaining to these girls they don't pick up, it's just plain rude and bad manners. Surely when they go to restaurants at home the Ukrainian man does not sit back while they act as such numpties and rack up a nice huge bill for him?

I NEVER have ever just taken one bite off a plate and then refused the rest or ordered another plate off the main course, another plate! I mean that's just insane.

I went out to eat with a woman a few years ago.  She tried a new dish.  She took 2 bites and decided she didn't like it.  So she got another dish that she then ate.

The dish she didn't like, she did take home in a doggie bag to give to her dog.

I didn't think anything of her not eating the dish, and ordering something else.

When I was a kid, my dad's saying was, "Take what you want, but eat what you take."  The only thing is, him and mom loaded your plate, and you had to eat everything, even if you didn't like it.  They also said that when I was an adult, I didn't have to eat something if I didn't like it.  So I know what it is like to be forced to eat stuff you can't stand, and I don't think anything of adults who choose not to eat something they don't like.

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If you travel in Central or Southern Ukraine, you will see rows and rows of fallen fruit, there is so much that people don't even pick it.

When I was in Odessa, there were Carpathian walnuts everywhere.  I didn't see anyone picking them up.  The pigeons however, were quite familiar with walnuts, and would eagerly flock around you if you cracked walnuts for them.

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Ah, so that's why they are so thin, they order food/have it available but never eat it, lol.

No, they are thin because they almost never go to restaurants and eat.  They don't eat as much fattening, high processed foods either.
Also, higher stress from a harsh life also burns more calories.
And, they do walk more.

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So what is the guy supposed to do like in Gaspar's case here, just ride out the pain being inflicted on his wallet? Surely a Ukrainian man does not do that, a Ukrainian man still has to pay and as we know money is something Ukrainian men are usually short on.

If a man considers the money spent on a woman to be pain inflicted on his wallet, he shouldn't have offered to spend it.
You don't gamble money you can't afford to lose.  If you can't afford the financial costs of playing the game, you don't play.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 29, 2018, 08:56:37 PM
Ukrainians were thinner in the 1980’s as well, before Westerners started eating badly. Just FTR, I don’t find Ukrainians to be noticeably thinner than people in my city until about age 35 or 40.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2018, 08:59:49 PM
You still met with her, therefore, you chose her.  You also chose to take her on vacation, and where to stay.  You could have chosen an apartment and cooked her meals.

Finally, you don't marry a culture.  You marry a person.

Yes people from cultures can vary, the girl I had fortunately did not order second main course dishes, Gaspar's did. However many will no doubt be influenced by their culture and this may need some reconciling to get to a situation of better understanding for both I think.

Yes an apartment would have been better we had one in Kiev. She could do a good breakfast fry up, but she never seemed to want to cook any main meals, dinner or lunch. I got the impression she didn't like to cook much. So situation much like Gaspar's there as we eat out anyway. On Cyprus we just had a Hotel, unfortunately it had a mini bar and she had the annoying habit of instead of finishing her present bottle of opening a new one and leaving the other, or opening one just to taste what it was like - er, that all costs my dear. I think she got the message after I spoke to her about it as it was just peeing my money away needlessly again. Fortunately I don't think the hotel maid kept on top of it all :D Thankfully also none were expensive bottles of alcohol, just small bottles of mineral water and the like.

So yes if choosing somewhere on holiday for the first time go somewhere cheap - I hear Turkey is dirt cheap, do the apartment thing to see that she is up for cooking and don't book in for a long holiday. Try and educate the woman about how to behave pretty early on in a relationship, we can be talking about starting at ground zero here and working our way up!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2018, 09:03:10 PM
Ukrainians were thinner in the 1980’s as well, before Westerners started eating badly. Just FTR, I don’t find Ukrainians to be noticeably thinner than people in my city until about age 35 or 40.

Ukrainian women are definitely thinner overall than UK chicks. They will definitely  be way thinner than most US chicks no contest. Canada may be different because the cold weather often gas a slimming effect.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 29, 2018, 09:08:05 PM
Yes people from cultures can vary, the girl I had fortunately did not order second main course dishes, Gaspar's did. However many will no doubt be influenced by their culture and this may need some reconciling to get to a situation of better understanding for both I think.

Yes an apartment would have been better we had one in Kiev. She could do a good breakfast fry up, but she never seemed to want to cook any main meals, dinner or lunch. I got the impression she didn't like to cook much. So situation much like Gaspar's there as we eat out anyway. On Cyprus we just had a Hotel, unfortunately it had a mini bar and she had the annoying habit of instead of finishing her present bottle of opening a new one and leaving the other, or opening one just to taste what it was like - er, that all costs my dear. I think she got the message after I spoke to her about it as it was just peeing my money away needlessly again. Fortunately I don't think the hotel maid kept on top of it all :D Thankfully also none were expensive bottles of alcohol, just small bottles of mineral water and the like.

So yes if choosing somewhere on holiday for the first time go somewhere cheap - I hear Turkey is dirt cheap, do the apartment thing to see that she is up for cooking and don't book in for a long holiday. Try and educate the woman about how to behave pretty early on in a relationship, we can be talking about starting at ground zero here and working our way up!


And this is why you will fail.


Ukrainian women are definitely thinner overall than UK chicks. They will definitely  be way thinner than most US chicks no contest. Canada may be different because the cold weather often gas a slimming effect.


This has been debated ad nauseum on the forum.


I've been to US cities, and young women are just as thin as in Ukraine.  Lots of AM have stated the same.  UW tend to turn out better in public. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 29, 2018, 09:32:34 PM
You agreed for better or for WORSE.  You knew there was a risk of "unreasonable behavior."

Still being the forum village idiot ?

I'm WELL aware of my vows and I HAVE pointed out my kids will tell you life was better when one of us removed ourselves from 'the equation' ... Given the wife warned me she would make sure my kids HATED me if I left her  - something she succeeded in for a long time .. I STILL moved out and ultimately divorced her as it was the RIGHT thing to do for my main obligation ... the kids we created ...  I didn't run off and find another lady - re-marrying 5 years later


You agreed as a condition for being allowed to marry, that even if it failed (the for worse) you would never have a relationship with anyone else until the woman you were marrying died.

You DO NOT understand that Divorce is on the statue of most nations and WHY ?  The guy that married us was....divorced ..not his choice...

You agreed that if the marriage failed, you would remain single, or attempt to reconcile, until one of you died.  You can not say that marriage is sacred or that you value marriage if you have ever had a relationship with someone else after your day if the person you married is still alive.  No ifs, ands, or buts.

I can and DO ...    Your mistake is telling others who have worn the unfortunate t-shirt where they went 'wrong' and that they should have 'endured'

Trump is not my leader.  He is the President of the USA, elected when 58% of registered voters cast their vote, believing him to be the lesser of two evils.
Frankly, Trump is irrelevant.  I won't go to Heaven or Hell because of his actions.  He does not affect my honor or integrity, and my values are not dependent upon him.

You 'got' my point - you are just distancing yourself !  He chose Mike Pence as his running mate as he was the polar opposite and yet I fear if 'Trampu' had to go - we'd get this holier than thou, intolerant, 'Christian' ..SCARY

My analogy was very good, and you are upset with the messenger simply because you don't like the message.

You clearly read selectively.. it sucked - hence no 'upset' this end...))

20 years ago, I took a mail order course on Successful Investing and Money Management.  At that time, it said that 4% of the population earned $100K+ a year.  It said that if someone's goal was to earn $100K a year, who should they consult for advice - someone in the 4% who had actually achieved that, or should they get financial advice from someone in the 96%?  Sadly, most people get their financial advice from the 96%.
Marriage is no different.  If you want a successful, happy marriage, you should seek out the small percentage of marriages that have achieved the level of success you seek.  It is very foolish to seek relationship advice from people who are divorced, or otherwise do not have the level of marital success you are seeking.

You seem to spend your life quoting BOLLOX analogies ... 

NO ONE, other than the two people and anyone that lives with 'em ( kids?) knows how good a  marriage is ...  Anyone, meeting my first wife and kids with me in the street though we were a 'wonderful family' ...

The question is not if someone gets divorced, but if they do what they agreed and remain single and try to reconcile until one of them dies, or if they dishonor themselves by having a relationship with someone else.

You are an UTTER idiot ...   I was happy and relieved when the mother of my kids recently remarried


Well, gee, if I wasn't in a long term relationship with a girl for 4.5 years, what the heck was it?

Given what you post, your conclusions from your 'observing people' - I can only conclude you live in a bubble ...  As already pointed out - you simply cannot know how some people change when behind closed doors

I try to be observant and study people, and relationships.  There's something I've noticed.  The amount of effort a man puts forth into getting to know a girl before they have sex tends to be the limit of the effort he will ever put forth.  As soon as he has sex, he's not really interested in getting to know the girl any better.

More Bollox generalisations ...  I'm a guy that has never paid for sex and sex without love, for me, leaves me sad... 

Like your 'analogies', your conclusions are risible
For MANY men, their ideal marriage consists of the little more than a one-night stand with the same woman every night, with a comparable level of emotional involvement that he would have with any one-night stand.
And then years down the road, the guy claims the woman changed.  No she didn't.  The guy just never took the time to really know the lady, and she finally got fed up with being treated like a one-night stand.

Have you been married or had kids ....  so you have NO idea about what you are talking about .... people DO change ...I haven't ...but I saw my partner show sides to her character that she had kept WELL hidden

Boethius is the one who keeps trying to hammer the point that you never know someone until you live with them.  I consider the source.  If you decide to marry someone after one week, you aren't really going to know them until after you have lived with them.  Personally, I believe that it is possible to really know someone to a very high degree before you have lived with them, but it takes a lot of time and work.

You are just 'mistaken' ...  more of your bollox theories ...   

That's irrelevant.  Yes, it's very important to love each other, but if the only reason two people are marrying is because they love each other, they don't have any business marrying.  Just because you love someone does not mean that they are marriage material or that they have the qualities or characteristics to be a good partner.

Now, your are twisting and turning, wriggling like a worm on a hook as one of your 'corner-stones' of why marriages 'fail 'got busted ...

LOVE is a feeling that you want to share everything - with your partner ...  Most people enter marriage with this attitude..they aren't worried about failing - see no reason why it would fail 

The only people making a fool of themselves are those who agree to remain single or reconcile or the marriage fails, and then they have a relationship with someone else before the person they married dies.

What?.. You're going to need to write a little clearer .....  My interpretation of your wack job beliefs is that one HAD to remain single, if splitting  ))))

See below: ( priceless)

Unless they died, if you have a relationship with anyone else you are being unfaithful.  You are dishonoring the agreement you made.  You agreed that even if the marriage failed, you would never have a relationship with anyone else until after they were dead.

Once more, I'll remind you that Divorce is  permitted - and for good reason - in most nations

Once again, your words are those of a spoiled brat who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

What ?! ... If I had been unfaithful - you might have a point ... Only an idiot like you would regard having a relationship with someone else whilst your divorced ex-partner is remarried a 'sin'

Unless a gun is being held to their head, they don't "have" to move.  There are always other options.
They can always find another job locally.  As long as you have enough money to keep the bill collectors at bay (somewhere between poverty and lower class) having more money does little to increase the quality or happiness of your life.  It may be the difference of driving a Cadillac or a Ford, or living in a mansion or a 1500 square foot home, but the quality of their life is very similar.
I have known people where one spouse worked away from home, and was only home on the weekends.  They didn't get divorced.


My father commuted between counties and ultimately my Mum agreed to move across the Irish Sea..  I believed the way he worked to keep his family sent him to an early grave... so. believe me I know about 'sacrifice'

My Mum, could and should have agreed to move earlier ..again your 'theories' don't hold up in practice

Below we see yet another one ! 

And maybe our differences of opinion may be in part due to Americans having a mindset of a free person, and Europeans having the mindset of a subject or serf, like Tocqueville noted.

Newsflash :  Most Americans are descended from Europeans and Europeans come in many favours .... Many Americans think they are 'Irish' - having had - some generations ago - Irish ancestors

Many Western Europeans identify more closely with Americans than Southern or Eastern Europeans ... You don't appear to be well-travelled - if you read and believe twaddle like that

And how does having a relationship with someone else have anything to do with ending wrongs?  It doesn't.
If the least worst solution to wrongs is to separate, then separate, and either remain alone or reconcile, like you agreed to do.

Third time, Divorce is on the statute of America, yes ?   For good reason ... Divorce in my country means a couple that do not agree to end the marriage cannot divorce for FIVE years...  *I* find that expecting one partner who has decided it's over to change their mind is someone unrealistic...  I've been on both sides of the situation ... Five years is prob too long.

Divorce may be the least worst solution, but it is never good.  Divorce is always bad, and only an idiot would suggest that divorce was a good thing.  If divorce was a good thing, everyone would enjoy doing it...but for some reason, divorce tends to be a very painful and very not-enjoyable thing for people to do.

My apologies if you get the impression I thought / think divorce is 'good' ..  it is horrible ... but where we differ is that I can see it is utterly ridiculous to expect a couple to remain in a marriage that is bad - or live out their lives 'single' - as some sort of 'punishment' for 'breaking your vows' ..

If you have had a LTR then don't you find your desire for a pure virgin somewhat pompous....?  Or did you live for 4.5 years with a woman without sexual intercourse ?


Once again, "far better" may be the least worst solution, but it was not good.  Compared to children in stable hones with both biological parents, children of divorced families don't do as well.  Yes, there are exceptions where children with both parents have a miserable time, and single parents who do great, but when you look at it in aggregate, children from broken homes suffer much more.

I speak from my circumstances and have been a step-dad to someone else's son ...   I would not say he has suffered from his parents divorce and living with me )))


You agreed "for better or worse," knowing that part of for worse is the aging process...

I readily admit I broke my marital vows....  I did the RIGHT thing

I have a widow neighbor lady who is almost 80 who has health issues and is pretty much housebound.  I stop by everyday, and do what needs done.

Good boy, but how id that relevant ?


Marriages fail because of selfishness.  One person begins to put their desires over what is best for the family.  It builds resentment, and everything goes downhill.


There is no one reason for marital breakdowns ...and my reason was what was best for my Kids...

Lastly, could you learn to quote to show to whom you are responding to ?   You seem to want to be seen as a 'good chap'

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on July 29, 2018, 10:19:55 PM
 The problem with all this death "til death do you part" issue is, I'm not religious and identify as an atheist. Honestly I haven't been to a wedding in the last 15 years that mentioned "til death do you part", god or been in a church and  I can't think of anyone I know who's religious, except for the FSU woman I'm talking to.

If I was to identify with anything spiritual it would be Buddhism..... There are some truly inspiration writings and has helped me a lot over the last few years. It's the only religious text that is as relevant today as when it was first written.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 30, 2018, 01:13:52 AM

And this is why you will fail.



This has been debated ad nauseum on the forum.


I've been to US cities, and young women are just as thin as in Ukraine.  Lots of AM have stated the same.  UW tend to turn out better in public.

Why? because I want to be careful with money? as should any responsible person.

There are plenty of statistics that back up my view and that of many others that there are a lot more fatter people in the UK & US and women stand out specifically for it.

When I was in Krakow I noticed all the American girls were the fat ones with the thick thighs. Polish girls had not just a different look in clothing but were always universally thin. Roosh had noticed how thin Polish girls were too (and Ukraine too). Or are you going to tell me only the fat American girls go away on holiday, lol.

I know in a previous discussion on this one US member told us how once most of the girks in middle school used to be normal sized had now become most were fat with the normal sized girls as the exception.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 30, 2018, 01:37:48 AM
I wasn't referring to money at all.


I have been to the US, numerous times.  Have you?  Not all regions are full of fat women. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 30, 2018, 01:54:34 AM
Why? because I want to be careful with money? as should any responsible person.

There are plenty of statistics that back up my view and that of many others that there are a lot more fatter people in the UK & US and women stand out specifically for it.

When I was in Krakow I noticed all the American girls were the fat ones with the thick thighs. Polish girls had not just a different look in clothing but were always universally thin. Roosh had noticed how thin Polish girls were too (and Ukraine too). Or are you going to tell me only the fat American girls go away on holiday, lol.

I know in a previous discussion on this one US member told us how once most of the girks in middle school used to be normal sized had now become most were fat with the normal sized girls as the exception.
It’s not about being careful with money although in that respect Scrooge could take lessons from you.
It’s about your attitude.....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 30, 2018, 08:41:27 AM
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unfortunately it had a mini bar and she had the annoying habit of instead of finishing her present bottle of opening a new one and leaving the other, or opening one just to taste what it was like - er, that all costs my dear. I think she got the message after I spoke to her about it as it was just peeing my money away needlessly again.

Trench, why didn't you just drink free tapwater instead of buying mineral water or whatever?

Just out of curiosity, how much money do you 'waste?'  How much have you blown on pursuing Ukrainian women, with nothing to show for it?  A heck of a lot more than the price of a few bottles of water.  Or is it that you believe it is your money to spend frivolously, but it's not ok for the woman to spend money foolishly?

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Ukrainian women are definitely thinner overall than UK chicks. They will definitely  be way thinner than most US chicks no contest.

I attend an upscale farmers market regularly.  It's in an affluent neighborhood of a city with well over a half million people.  There's maybe 60 vendors there, with many certified organic.  The market regularly pulls 2500-3000 customers, and probably 75% being women.  Shoppers range from college kids to people in their 70's, although the majority are the 25-50 age range.
Most of the ladies are physically fit.  To be honest, as a whole I would say they are thinner than the girls I saw in Odessa.  You will see a few women at the market who are a little chubby or soft, but you don't see obesity.  You see a lot of yoga pants at the market.  You don't see as much makeup or mini skirts as you see in Ukraine.

Now if you go to WalMart, you see an entirely different cross section of society.  Attractive girls are uncommon, and overweight or obese is the norm there.

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I STILL moved out and ultimately divorced her as it was the RIGHT thing to do for my main obligation ... the kids we created ...  I didn't run off and find another lady - re-marrying 5 years later

Msmob, and 5 years later makes it ok?  You agreed to never have another relationship as long as your original wife was still alive.

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You DO NOT understand that Divorce is on the statue of most nations and WHY ? 

Do you not understand that divorce courts are courts of equity?  Their jurisdiction is limited to division of assets and financial matters.  They have no jurisdiction over moral vows, and they can not relieve you of moral obligations you have agreed to.

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I can and DO ...    Your mistake is telling others who have worn the unfortunate t-shirt where they went 'wrong' and that they should have 'endured'

I'm not saying you should have endured.  Read what I write, instead of what you want to hear.  It is best that folks work together for a happy marriage.  I understand that sadly, sometimes divorce is the least worst option.

I am saying where people go wrong is having relationships with other people while the person they married is still alive. (and not getting to know someone prior to marriage.)

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You 'got' my point - you are just distancing yourself !  He chose Mike Pence as his running mate as he was the polar opposite and yet I fear if 'Trampu' had to go - we'd get this holier than thou, intolerant, 'Christian' ..SCARY

No, I don't get your point, as Trump and Pence don't speak for me and have nothing to do with the values I have in my life.

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You are an UTTER idiot ...   I was happy and relieved when the mother of my kids recently remarried

Why?  So you could rationalize that you weren't so bad by breaking your vow if she did also?  Two wrongs don't make a right.

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Given what you post, your conclusions from your 'observing people' - I can only conclude you live in a bubble ...  As already pointed out - you simply cannot know how some people change when behind closed doors

Everyone lives in their own little world, a bubble of sorts.  I have seen people change for the better behind doors, and I have seen people change for the worst.  it is foolish to assume that you know my experiences.

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Have you been married or had kids ....  so you have NO idea about what you are talking about .... people DO change ...I haven't ...but I saw my partner show sides to her character that she had kept WELL hidden

No, I have not been married, but I have parents who married, relatives who married, friend's parents who married, friends and acquaintances who have married.  Trust me, I have been exposed to many marriages.

You do realize how laughable your comment is, don't you?  You didn't change, but everyone else changes...and they have sides to their character they keep well hidden.  They didn't change either. (Caveat: I have seen people change after a stroke.)  You want to believe they changed, because you don't want to admit that you never really got to know them.

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LOVE is a feeling that you want to share everything - with your partner ...  Most people enter marriage with this attitude..they aren't worried about failing - see no reason why it would fail 

Bollox.  Most people do have second thoughts before getting married.  That's normal, even when they are deeply in love and know each other well.

If you never had second thoughts, and jumped into marriage with a pie-in-the-sky attitude, no wonder you had a rude awakening, and rightfully so.

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My interpretation of your wack job beliefs is that one HAD to remain single, if splitting  ))))

That is what you agreed to.  You agreed that you would never have a relationship with anyone else, no matter what, as long as the person you married is still alive.

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Once more, I'll remind you that Divorce is  permitted - and for good reason - in most nations

Divorce only relieves a person of their financial obligations (and benefits).  It does not address the irrevocable moral obligations a person knowingly and voluntarily agreed to.

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What ?! ... If I had been unfaithful - you might have a point ... Only an idiot like you would regard having a relationship with someone else whilst your divorced ex-partner is remarried a 'sin'

I have no idea what you are jabbering about regarding an ex-partner being remarried, or how that is relevant to anything.

You are being unfaithful, if you have a relationship with someone else if your divorced partner is still alive.

If that makes me an idiot, then I am in good company as Jesus Christ said the same thing.  (Strangely, most folks don't consider Jesus to be an idiot, even people who don't practice Christianity.)

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My father commuted between counties and ultimately my Mum agreed to move across the Irish Sea..  I believed the way he worked to keep his family sent him to an early grave... so. believe me I know about 'sacrifice'

My Mum, could and should have agreed to move earlier ..again your 'theories' don't hold up in practice

I know lots of people who commute between counties.  Maybe your counties are larger than our counties.

Was he forced to do that?  Did someone hold a gun to his head and make him go?  Did someone hold a gun to his head and deny him the opportunity to work locally?  Or were these choices he voluntarily made?

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Newsflash :  Most Americans are descended from Europeans and Europeans come in many favours .... Many Americans think they are 'Irish' - having had - some generations ago - Irish ancestors

Many Western Europeans identify more closely with Americans than Southern or Eastern Europeans ... You don't appear to be well-travelled - if you read and believe twaddle like that

Newsflash: personal attitudes regarding personal freedom differ across the pond.  That's why those people left Europe.

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Third time, Divorce is on the statute of America, yes ?

Only to the degree that it addresses the division of assets and financial matters.  The courts lack jurisdiction to address any matters of moral obligations, and can not relieve someone of moral vows they have agreed to, especially irrevocable vows.

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Divorce in my country means a couple that do not agree to end the marriage cannot divorce for FIVE years...  *I* find that expecting one partner who has decided it's over to change their mind is someone unrealistic...  I've been on both sides of the situation ... Five years is prob too long.

Considering that you are not permitted to have another relationship, I think 5 years is irrelevant.

In America, if a guy wants to marry a foreign girl, he must agree to financially support her for 10 years. 

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but where we differ is that I can see it is utterly ridiculous to expect a couple to remain in a marriage that is bad - or live out their lives 'single' - as some sort of 'punishment' for 'breaking your vows' ..

How is keeping an agreement you voluntarily and freely made "utterly ridiculous?"  You agreed to that punishment.  It didn't seem utterly ridiculous when you agreed to it.

If I borrow a bunch of money putting up collateral, and after I spend it I decide it didn't give me the life I was hoping for, is it utterly ridiculous if I forfeit my collateral?  Having relationships with anyone else is the collateral you put up when you got married.

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If you have had a LTR then don't you find your desire for a pure virgin somewhat pompous....?  Or did you live for 4.5 years with a woman without sexual intercourse ?

Where have I said that I desired a pure virgin?  I have said that is the ideal, and marriages with a virgin bride have the lowest divorce rates.

I did not live with the girl I was in a 4.5 year relationship with.  I lived on my own, and she lived with her mom.
I have never lived with a girl in a relationship. 
A lot of folks I know believe that if you are not yet willing to put a ring on her finger, you shouldn't move in together. 

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I speak from my circumstances and have been a step-dad to someone else's son ...   I would not say he has suffered from his parents divorce and living with me )))

There are exceptions, but when taken in aggregate, kids in step-parent homes don't do as well as kids with both biological parents.

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I readily admit I broke my marital vows....  I did the RIGHT thing

No, the right thing is not breaking your vows.

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Good boy, but how id that relevant ?

You asked if I ever had any experience caring with elderly or infirm people...

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There is no one reason for marital breakdowns ...and my reason was what was best for my Kids...

No, selfishness is the only reason for divorce.  It manifests itself in many ways, but the root is always selfishness.

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Lastly, could you learn to quote to show to whom you are responding to ?   

Could you learn to read and remember who says what?

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You seem to want to be seen as a 'good chap'

Appearances must be deceiving you then.  I could care less how I am seen.  Shallow folks worry about stuff like that. 
I'd rather worry about just being a good guy, and not worry about how others see me.

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The problem with all this death "til death do you part" issue is, I'm not religious and identify as an atheist.

You don't have to be religious to do what you say you will do.

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Honestly I haven't been to a wedding in the last 15 years that mentioned "til death do you part",

Did they use wedding rings, which have no ending, to symbolize that the agreement is forever?

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If I was to identify with anything spiritual it would be Buddhism.....

Ah, life is suffering.  You just have to find the middle path that makes it all worthwhile.  The secret is not to avoid the suffering, but to add an opposite measure of blessings to balance it all out.  You're not supposed to divorce, you just need to make the best of the situation and bring good into it.

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Why? because I want to be careful with money? as should any responsible person.

No, because you are fixated on money, and place it as more important than the relationship.

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There are plenty of statistics that back up my view and that of many others that there are a lot more fatter people in the UK & US and women stand out specifically for it.

53% of Ukrainians are overweight, and 20% are obese.

320 million Americans.  If roughly half are women, that's 160 million women.  2/3 of Americans are overweight or obese, meaning 53 million women are physically fit.
There are 44 million people in Ukraine, and assuming half of them are women, that means there are almost 2.5 times as many physically fit women in America as all the women in Ukraine.

Also, you need to keep in mind that obesity is distributed unequally across racial groups in the US.  Blacks are 1.5 times as likely to be obese as whites, and 82% of blacks are overweight or obese.  American Indians are almost as obese as blacks.  American Asian obesity rates are about 1/3 the rate of whites.  Hispanics and Mexican Americans have higher rates of obesity than whites.

Also, keep in mind that being fat or fit tends to run in families.  Some families learn good eating habits, and some don't.  Fat people tend to marry fat, and thin tend to marry thin.  People tend to associate and socialize with others of similar social status, and obese tend to hang around with obese, and fit folks tend to hang around other fit people.  There are circles that are almost all fat, and there are groups of people who are almost all fit.
The social groups you associate with will affect whether you are seeing fit women, or obese.  If you go to farmers markets, craft shows (especially ones with higher quality goods), and fitness centers, you will meet a lot more fit women.  If you go to a food pantry, or (Heaven forbid) go to WalMart on a weekend night or the first of the month after welfare checks come, you will see an endless wall of obesity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 31, 2018, 04:00:39 AM
Msmob, and 5 years later makes it ok?  You agreed to never have another relationship as long as your original wife was still alive.

...and I readily admit to breaking my vows and DO NOT regret my decision - it was made on behalf of my kids ... I have discussed this v.point with far smarter Men of God than you ...

I note you STILL can't manage to attribute quotes.. 

May be you hope to confuse of bore folks to death ?


Do you not understand that divorce courts are courts of equity?  Their jurisdiction is limited to division of assets and financial matters.  They have no jurisdiction over moral vows, and they can not relieve you of moral obligations you have agreed to.

Au contraire, If you have family, part of a divorce in the UK is that the Family Court must agree that visitation and child support are set in stone. Lest either partner might forget their obligations.

I'm not saying you should have endured.  Read what I write, instead of what you want to hear.  It is best that folks work together for a happy marriage.  I understand that sadly, sometimes divorce is the least worst option.

You are the second person to 'suggest' I didn't read what was written - when it is all too easy to point out that is is the author that has the issue. Before you respond  - you might like to take a breath and read the bollox you have written ..

You are now changing your stance. Perhaps, you realise your viewpoints aren't being well-received ... ?  Should that matter to you ?

No, I don't get your point, as Trump and Pence don't speak for me and have nothing to do with the values I have in my life.

Oh, I'm sure 'Trampu' doesn't - but I recognise Pence in so much of what you write..

How do you interpret same sex relationships ?

it is foolish to assume that you know my experiences.

Based on your posts - not foolish at all

No, I have not been married, but I have parents who married, relatives who married, friend's parents who married, friends and acquaintances who have married.  Trust me, I have been exposed to many marriages.

Ah, so you slept with your parents into adult-hood and were party to their private discussions ? ...

You do realize how laughable your comment is, don't you?

Possibly, to you ...   I didn't change, but I have become sl.wiser

Bollox.  Most people do have second thoughts before getting married.  That's normal, even when they are deeply in love and know each other well.

Given you haven't been married - you base this on, what ? I was entirely confident we'd survive any crisis - didn't have the sl.doubt

If you never had second thoughts, and jumped into marriage with a pie-in-the-sky attitude, no wonder you had a rude awakening, and rightfully so.

Your mistake is so ASSuming ...  I was 30 - had done many things as a single guy and was quite ready to 'settle down' and be a hubbie and Dad ....   

That is what you agreed to.  You agreed that you would never have a relationship with anyone else, no matter what, as long as the person you married is still alive.

Indeed - I keep reminding you, I accept I broke my marital vows - and it was the right thing to do - it wasn't a spur of the moment decision and we attended counselling - I sought the advice of the very man that married us

Divorce only relieves a person of their financial obligations (and benefits).  It does not address the irrevocable moral obligations a person knowingly and voluntarily agreed to.

:))

There's an example of a guy that REALLY needs to read - before he posts

Divorce can set a higher burden of financial commitment - including fees - than one would have encountered...  it certainly did , in my case ....  What planet on you on ? Posting such guff.

I have no idea what you are jabbering about regarding an ex-partner being remarried, or how that is relevant to anything.

You are being unfaithful, if you have a relationship with someone else if your divorced partner is still alive.

That is your -IMHO wacko -opinion ...  I married a semi-practising Roman Catholic - I'm a Prod - and she remarried ...   I am pleased if she can find happiness with another. 

Thank GOD .... that Ireland is now showing the way and the RC Church is being spurned by young people


If that makes me an idiot, then I am in good company as Jesus Christ said the same thing.  (Strangely, most folks don't consider Jesus to be an idiot, even people who don't practice Christianity.)

Call me a heretic - not that I'd care, but his 'word' was written and translated and 'interpreted' by others - causing schisms and even wars throughout the ages amongst Christians - let alone Islam and it's interpretations.

I know lots of people who commute between counties.  Maybe your counties are larger than our counties.

My apologies, I would have thought it clear I meant COUNTRIES...involving flying - living apart from the family

Was he forced to do that?  Did someone hold a gun to his head and make him go?  Did someone hold a gun to his head and deny him the opportunity to work locally?  Or were these choices he voluntarily made?

V.Simple - we had a 'little thing' called  'The Troubles' which destroyed confidence in firms staying located in N.Ireland and he had a choice to relocate to S.England or lose his job - with little chance of finding another of commensurate reward..

Newsflash: personal attitudes regarding personal freedom differ across the pond.  That's why those people left Europe.

For a VERY small minority - most were ECONOMIC migrants ..only an idiot persist with a stance when clearly in the wrong ..  Ireland and the UK have traditionally had strong ties with the US / Canada based on commonality of viewpoints - esp. in times of war.

Only to the degree that it addresses the division of assets and financial matters.  The courts lack jurisdiction to address any matters of moral obligations, and can not relieve someone of moral vows they have agreed to, especially irrevocable vows.

Already covered - patent nonsense - you a zero clue of how such matters are dealt with in the UK..

Considering that you are not permitted to have another relationship, I think 5 years is irrelevant.

'Not Permitted' by WHO ?  My marriage is respected by the State AND my Church

In America, if a guy wants to marry a foreign girl, he must agree to financially support her for 10 years. 

Who are you responding to - or are you injecting more irrelevant matters to your religious beliefs that extend to suggesting others are adulterers ?  :))   'Thanks' - but I understand the obligations / risks when asking someone to leave their nation to be with me ..

How is keeping an agreement you voluntarily and freely made "utterly ridiculous?"  You agreed to that punishment.  It didn't seem utterly ridiculous when you agreed to it.

WHO is 'punishing' me ... ;) ?



If I borrow a bunch of money putting up collateral, and after I spend it I decide it didn't give me the life I was hoping for, is it utterly ridiculous if I forfeit my collateral?  Having relationships with anyone else is the collateral you put up when you got married.

According you your beliefs ...  !

Where have I said that I desired a pure virgin?  I have said that is the ideal, and marriages with a virgin bride have the lowest divorce rates.

I see b all difference in part one of your 'explanation' - not forgetting you claim to have had an LTR - you didn't let us know if you were sexually active .... May be you realise how ironic your desire is.  ))

I did not live with the girl I was in a 4.5 year relationship with.  I lived on my own, and she lived with her mom.
I have never lived with a girl in a relationship. 

Hmm, you still duck the Q on our minds ... )) Whilst it is none of our business - your 'pompousness' - raises the obvious Q

A lot of folks I know believe that if you are not yet willing to put a ring on her finger, you shouldn't move in together. 

Fine, their decision - we are discussing divorce/ re-marriage and YOUR - possible - double stds / 'ideals'

There are exceptions, but when taken in aggregate, kids in step-parent homes don't do as well as kids with both biological parents.

)))

My Daughter got a first class Hons degree and my Step-son the same ...  'funny' that...

No, the right thing is not breaking your vows.

Says - you - who hasn't worn the t-shirt....   

You asked if I ever had any experience caring with elderly or infirm people...

The issue was commitment to family  - you remember you asked ME to READ more carefully !

No, selfishness is the only reason for divorce.  It manifests itself in many ways, but the root is always selfishness.

I am indeed giving you too much time - arguing with an idiot ...  You had a reasoned explanation - you,clearly - did not bother to read or your indoctrination renders your helpless 

Could you learn to read and remember who says what?

I might - but I'm older (!) and is it SO hard to use the default code that makes it CLEAR to whom you are responding ...Are you LAZY?

Appearances must be deceiving you then.  I could care less how I am seen.  Shallow folks worry about stuff like that. 
I'd rather worry about just being a good guy, and not worry about how others see me.

There is nothing about you that 'deceives' ... you believe what you wish and can't  /won't persuade many to change...   You might THINK you're a good guy ... 'Happy' for you ... 

You don't have to be religious to do what you say you will do.

I know ... but I think you are still referring to marriage  vows? ...

Did they use wedding rings, which have no ending, to symbolize that the agreement is forever?

So, now you MUST be referring to someone else's  response... You cannot / will not see how this likely means no-one will bother to try to understand your viewpoint ?

I threw my wedding ring in a lake

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on August 01, 2018, 09:08:51 PM
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...and I readily admit to breaking my vows and DO NOT regret my decision - it was made on behalf of my kids ... I have discussed this v.point with far smarter Men of God than you ...

I do not claim to be a "Man of God."

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I note you STILL can't manage to attribute quotes..

May be you hope to confuse of bore folks to death ?

Using the reply with quote is a nightmare when you are replying to multiple points, or multiple people. 

Look at it this way.  It's a brain exercise for old, senile people to help them fight off the effects of aging.

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Au contraire, If you have family, part of a divorce in the UK is that the Family Court must agree that visitation and child support are set in stone. Lest either partner might forget their obligations.

And all that pertains to division of property, which falls under equity.

You had witnesses at your wedding whose job is to remind you of your obligations, should you ever shirk your marital obligations.

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You are now changing your stance. Perhaps, you realise your viewpoints aren't being well-received ... ?  Should that matter to you ?

I have not changed my stance. 
I believe it is best if couples choose a partner wisely, work through problems, and remain loving and true their whole lives.  I believe that it is never wrong to honor your commitment and try to make the best of a less than ideal situation.
I do believe that sometimes, divorce is the least worst option, but even then, it is bad and has horrible consequences, especially on children.
I don't believe that divorced people should pursue a relationship with someone else until after their original spouse has died.  That is the agreement they made, and it is honorable to keep their word.

No, it does not matter to me if my viewpoints are not well received.  Why should that matter to me?  As Orwell said, "In a time of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act."

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How do you interpret same sex relationships ?

Interpret?  You mean, what is my opinion of them?

It's not my cup of tea, so I don't live my life that way.  I personally disagree with it, but as long as it doesn't infringe upon my rights, it is between them and their God.

I also don't believe the government should be involved in any marriage.  Government should not be the 3rd partner in a marriage.  Two partners are enough.

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Ah, so you slept with your parents into adult-hood and were party to their private discussions ? ...

No, I did not sleep with my parents.  Yes, I have been privy to many of their private discussions, and private discussions of other couples too.

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Possibly, to you ...   I didn't change, but I have become sl.wiser

We are too soon old, and too late wise.

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Given you haven't been married - you base this on, what ? I was entirely confident we'd survive any crisis - didn't have the sl.doubt

I have had many discussions with married people.  You're the first I know of who says they never had second thoughts about if they were making the right choice.

If you don't have second thoughts, something is wrong with you.

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Your mistake is so ASSuming ...  I was 30 - had done many things as a single guy and was quite ready to 'settle down' and be a hubbie and Dad ....

That's only half of the equation.  You also have to choose a partner wisely, and not the first one who is willing to get hitched.

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Indeed - I keep reminding you, I accept I broke my marital vows - and it was the right thing to do - it wasn't a spur of the moment decision and we attended counselling - I sought the advice of the very man that married us

Which marital vows do you admit breaking?

Jesus said, "Go and sin no more."  If you make a mistake, you are supposed to stop the bad behavior.  If you continue a new relationship that breaks your marital vow, then you believe you are above the law, and you should not be held accountable for your actions.

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There's an example of a guy that REALLY needs to read - before he posts

Divorce can set a higher burden of financial commitment - including fees - than one would have encountered...  it certainly did , in my case ....  What planet on you on ? Posting such guff.

Planet Earth.

When you got married, you had people there to witness the marriage.  It is their responsibility to provide accountability to make sure you honor your commitment.  You not only have to answer to your spouse, you have to answer to everyone in society if you get out of line.

What planet are you on, where you don't believe in responsibility and accountability?

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That is your -IMHO wacko -opinion ...  I married a semi-practising Roman Catholic - I'm a Prod - and she remarried ...   I am pleased if she can find happiness with another. 

What does religious denomination matter?  How is that relevant?

Happiness is not what gives life meaning.

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Thank GOD .... that Ireland is now showing the way and the RC Church is being spurned by young people

Sounds like you harbor some resentment towards the Roman Catholic Church.

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Call me a heretic - not that I'd care, but his 'word' was written and translated and 'interpreted' by others - causing schisms and even wars throughout the ages amongst Christians - let alone Islam and it's interpretations.

To be honest, most of the divisions and wars have been caused by disagreements about people interpreting and preaching, and not about Jesus per se.

As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ.  I do not like your Christians.  They are so unlike your Christ."

Followers of Islam are descendants of Ishmael.  Ishmael (and descendants) were to be at odds with the house of Isaac.  That has nothing to do with interpretations.

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My apologies, I would have thought it clear I meant COUNTRIES...involving flying - living apart from the family

That makes little difference.  Countries in Europe are similar to US states.
I know people who have worked out of state, and are home on weekends.  They make the marriage work.

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V.Simple - we had a 'little thing' called  'The Troubles' which destroyed confidence in firms staying located in N.Ireland and he had a choice to relocate to S.England or lose his job - with little chance of finding another of commensurate reward.

When facing tough decisions, I encourage people to ask themselves 3 questions.  What do I have to gain? What do I have to lose?  What are my alternatives?  The 3rd questions is one many folks neglect to fully examine.

Sometimes taking a pay cut and being closer to home is better.  You have to weigh your options.  He could also have started his own business.  He didn't have to move, as he had other options.

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For a VERY small minority - most were ECONOMIC migrants ..only an idiot persist with a stance when clearly in the wrong ..  Ireland and the UK have traditionally had strong ties with the US / Canada based on commonality of viewpoints - esp. in times of war.

No, there are large differences.  People in America embraced individualism, and the UK embraced collectivism.  (Part of why you bring up Trump and Pence in your arguments with me.)

Please remind me again of the strong ties the UK had with the US during the Revolutionary War, or the War of 1812, or even the French and Indian War.

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Already covered - patent nonsense - you a zero clue of how such matters are dealt with in the UK..

Do you have witnesses at weddings in the UK?  What is their function and duty, and how do the courts deal with witnesses during divorce proceedings? 

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'Not Permitted' by WHO ?  My marriage is respected by the State AND my Church

It is not permitted by the irrevocable oath you made, and bound by your honor and integrity.  It is not permitted by the witnesses either, as all who know of the marriage are to hold you accountable. 

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    In America, if a guy wants to marry a foreign girl, he must agree to financially support her for 10 years. 


Who are you responding to - or are you injecting more irrelevant matters to your religious beliefs that extend to suggesting others are adulterers ?  :))   'Thanks' - but I understand the obligations / risks when asking someone to leave their nation to be with me ..

You were whining and blathering about, complaining about having to wait the 5 years for a divorce.  I was pointing out that in America, you have 10 years of financial obligations.

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WHO is 'punishing' me ... ;) ?

Society is to punish you through social pressure.  You are also to accept and impose the penalty on yourself.  That is what you agreed to.  If you do not, you lose all integrity and honor, and is evidence that no one can ever trust you in any matter.

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    If I borrow a bunch of money putting up collateral, and after I spend it I decide it didn't give me the life I was hoping for, is it utterly ridiculous if I forfeit my collateral?  Having relationships with anyone else is the collateral you put up when you got married.


According you your beliefs ...  !

Not just my beliefs.  Those were the beliefs you claimed when you got married.  Now you are trying to say that you didn't mean what you said.

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    Where have I said that I desired a pure virgin?  I have said that is the ideal, and marriages with a virgin bride have the lowest divorce rates.


I see b all difference in part one of your 'explanation' - not forgetting you claim to have had an LTR - you didn't let us know if you were sexually active .... May be you realise how ironic your desire is.  ))

I have no idea what the "b" is about.  You seem to like using uncommon abbreviations for words.

It was none of your business if I was sexually intimate with the girl.  Personally, I find it rather amusing how many people assume I was.  It speaks volumes about their own character, as their assumption is a projection of their own values on me.

I find no irony in the quality or character of the kind of lady I would like to get married to.

Quote
Hmm, you still duck the Q on our minds ... )) Whilst it is none of our business - your 'pompousness' - raises the obvious Q

Have you considered that I have not answered in order to see if people will think the best, or if they will think the worst of me?  How people view the world is an insight into how they view themselves.

And to be honest, I suspect there are few here who could even understand the dynamics of building a relationship while abstaining from sex.  It seems to be a common focus.

Quote
we are discussing divorce/ re-marriage and YOUR - possible - double stds / 'ideals'

I'm not aware of any double standards.  I am not perfect and I do not seek perfection.  I seek no more than what I offer.  That creates no double standard.

Quote
My Daughter got a first class Hons degree and my Step-son the same ...  'funny' that...

And those things mean nothing, and are completely irrelevant to how well they are psychologically and emotionally.  You can get good grades and still be an absolute mess inside.

Quote
Says - you - who hasn't worn the t-shirt....   

Whether or not someone has been married or not is irrelevant to knowing that keeping your word is the right thing to do.  Trust is the foundation of society.  Without trust, you have chaos. 
The most basic rules for life can be summed up as the Golden Rule, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (and inversely, Do not unto others as you would not have done unto you), or Do what you say you are going to do, and do not infringe the rights of others.

Quote
The issue was commitment to family  - you remember you asked ME to READ more carefully !

If you take the time to care for an elderly person out of the goodness of your heart, they are like family to you.  Or do you only make commitments to blood relatives?

Quote
I am indeed giving you too much time - arguing with an idiot ...  You had a reasoned explanation - you,clearly - did not bother to read or your indoctrination renders your helpless 

No, I simply refuse to play your game of obfuscation.  Selfishness is the reason for divorce, although it manifests itself in many ways.

Why are you giving me so much time?  That is a good question, but I doubt you really want it answered.

You feel threatened by me, because I don't fit into your paradigm.  I force you to acknowledge a reality you wish to ignore, because it is not comfortable for you to admit that your behavior is wrong.  You want to believe it is ok, and you try to justify it.  And as long as everyone around you condones or participates in the same conduct, you can convince yourself that what you are doing is good and acceptable.  But when someone comes along and chooses to hold themselves to a higher standard, you feel threatened and exposed.  It's normal human behavior, and I don't take it personally.

Quote
    Could you learn to read and remember who says what?


I might - but I'm older (!) and is it SO hard to use the default code that makes it CLEAR to whom you are responding ...Are you LAZY?

Efficient is a better word.  And yes, when you are responding to multiple points, it really is that hard to use the reply with quote.  It's much easier to hit the quote button and copy and paste.

Look on the bright side, by giving you mental exercises, I can help you fight the effects of old timer's.

Quote
There is nothing about you that 'deceives' ... you believe what you wish and can't  /won't persuade many to change...   You might THINK you're a good guy ... 'Happy' for you ... 

Somehow, I suspect you don't have a clue about who I am, how I live my life, or the experiences which have shaped me.  You're falling prey to the same thing as how many men create a fantasy of a woman, based upon how they imagine her to be, which can be quite different from reality.

Quote
You don't have to be religious to do what you say you will do.

I know ... but I think you are still referring to marriage  vows? ...

That concerns all oaths and vows.  If you give your word, you keep it.

Quote
    Did they use wedding rings, which have no ending, to symbolize that the agreement is forever?


So, now you MUST be referring to someone else's  response... You cannot / will not see how this likely means no-one will bother to try to understand your viewpoint ?

I threw my wedding ring in a lake

Yes, that was a response to Davo, as he was commenting that the words "til death we do part" has not been in weddings he has been to in many years.

The ring is still the evidence you gave of your unending commitment.  Hiding or tampering evidence does not make the event unhappen.  The ring is unending, and you chose it as evidence of your unending commitment.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 01, 2018, 11:23:37 PM
I do not claim to be a "Man of God."

You'll forgive me and I'm guessing others for thinking otherwise ....  but I note you chose to ignore I sought their counsel before making my eventual decision 

Using the reply with quote is a nightmare when you are replying to multiple points, or multiple people.

How so? You use the insert quote function and doing so is courteous and makes one's responses easier to read and to SEE the persons message to which you are responding TO...  It is impossible to know to whom you are replying and what they refer to ... 

You are an idealist - and haven't experienced reality....  ALL your points are your beliefs ... they are not mine - your 'reminding' me of my vows doesn't bring about a sense of guilt - *I* know what I did was for the best - for others I love

Why are you on this forum ?  Do you seek a virgin FSU W ?  ..Or are you hoping to convert some of us to your viewpoint ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 02, 2018, 07:26:14 AM
You use the insert quote function and doing so is courteous and makes one's responses easier to read and to SEE the persons message to which you are responding TO...  It is impossible to know to whom you are replying and what they refer to ... 

Bingo!

Bee Farmer is not the only poster who is ignorant, abuses or misuses the quote feature. It takes time to sort through prior posts to see who is responding to whom. Part of this though is the functionality of the platform. For that the owners of RWD are partially to blame.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 02, 2018, 08:07:30 AM

Beefarmer, when quoting someone and you need to quote again on the same or different person, scroll down the page and you will see the latest posts first and in the upper right corner of that post is a button that says "insert quote". You will be able to quote that person and their name will be applied so we know who you're quoting.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 02, 2018, 08:13:56 AM
You use the insert quote function and doing so is courteous and makes one's responses easier to read and to SEE the persons message to which you are responding TO...  It is impossible to know to whom you are replying and what they refer to ... 

Beefarmer, when quoting someone and you need to quote again on the same or different person, scroll down the page and you will see the latest posts first and in the upper right corner of that post is a button that says "insert quote". You will be able to quote that person and their name will be applied so we know who you're quoting.

I think he might get the message BillyB, but thanks for backing us up ;)



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 02, 2018, 08:34:05 AM
I think he might get the message BillyB, but thanks for backing us up ;)

Beefarmer may now find it easier to quote people saving him time and allowing him to quote twice as many times as he's currently doing.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2018, 08:34:47 AM
I'm sorry you had another bad time.

Ignoring red flags seems to be becoming routine though!

Maybe more vetting before meeting, and more vetting during meetings and more willingness to walk away in 1.3 seconds if it's going in a direction that isnt healthy for either person?

I second that. Assessing up front and walking away within a short time once you are sure your assessment is accurate and not impulsive is one of the most important things I have learned recently. A girl that is no good at the outset never will be I think.

In the west many guys myself included are reluctant to do this as the next opportunity may not come along in a long time. In the FSU girls are almost two a penny so this means you don't have to take no sh*t.

It's important though to gain an understanding of what the Red Flags are. For Gaspar one was smoking, others though he only found out about through experience. It's been the same way for me, going over there and wanting it to work out with a girl but not knowing a lot about Red Flags beyond the obvious Scammer stuff.

I think now that Gaspar has had a couple of misadventures he'll be getting a better idea of what to look out for so he can vet the girls better next time.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 02, 2018, 09:43:13 AM
I second that. Assessing up front and walking away within a short time once you are sure your assessment is accurate and not impulsive is one of the most important things I have learned recently. A girl that is no good at the outset never will be I think.

In the west many guys myself included are reluctant to do this as the next opportunity may not come along in a long time. In the FSU girls are almost two a penny so this means you don't have to take no sh*t.

It's important though to gain an understanding of what the Red Flags are. For Gaspar one was smoking, others though he only found out about through experience. It's been the same way for me, going over there and wanting it to work out with a girl but not knowing a lot about Red Flags beyond the obvious Scammer stuff.

I think now that Gaspar has had a couple of misadventures he'll be getting a better idea of what to look out for so he can vet the girls better next time.
Yet again, you show us that you know nothing about relationships between men and women.
A normal English bloke of your age would be hitched to a normal English girl with a couple of sprogs, yet you are not.
What does that say about you, Trench?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2018, 12:02:48 PM
Yet again, you show us that you know nothing about relationships between men and women.
A normal English bloke of your age would be hitched to a normal English girl with a couple of sprogs, yet you are not.
What does that say about you, Trench?
Its all different nowadays. Girls these days do look to men first jobs second, they look to jobs first, men second. The FSU is the other way around like it used to be here. In addition many women make themselves fat here and seem to think it should be acceptable to the guy, it is not. I would never accept a fat girl, I am just not into them, and with the more fat women a ever declining group of decent women to chose from.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on August 02, 2018, 12:28:51 PM
Its all different nowadays. Girls these days do look to men first jobs second, they look to jobs first, men second. The FSU is the other way around like it used to be here. In addition many women make themselves fat here and seem to think it should be acceptable to the guy, it is not. I would never accept a fat girl, I am just not into them, and with the more fat women a ever declining group of decent women to chose from.

oh yes, the fatty fairy tale again..  and you are SUCH a catch for the ladies I imagine .. one word comes to mind - starts with an I and ends with diot.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 02, 2018, 12:51:19 PM
The FSU is the other way around like it used to be here.
No, it isn't, and that is why, ultimately, you will fail.  Your attitudes will not be tolerated by any FSUW.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 02, 2018, 01:05:56 PM
Its all different nowadays. Girls these days do look to men first jobs second, they look to jobs first, men second. The FSU is the other way around like it used to be here.
Ah, Trench, trotting out that old garbage again.
There are couples up and down the country getting married in August. Your argument just applies to you. Why would a woman want to get married to someone like you who earns the minimum wage and shows no drive or ambition to be a better provider. A woman will understand that you will not have any equity in providing a safe and secure environment for her and any future children she may have.
That’s why you are looking in the FSU. You think that some poverty stricken FSU beauty is just waiting to be swept away, enticed by the prospect of a better life in TrenchWorld, better in the sense that she is so poor that, in comparison, TrenchWorld is Mecca.
Quote
In addition many women make themselves fat here and seem to think it should be acceptable to the guy, it is not. I would never accept a fat girl, I am just not into them, and with the more fat women a ever declining group of decent women to chose from.
Another load of tosh.
You’re a really cretinous so and so. I really hope you never succeed in the FSU. The women there are simply undeserving of someone like you. L
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 02, 2018, 02:40:39 PM
Trench,,

You keep demonstrating what an utter clot you are with ladies at the dating stage and we see more evidence of it in your last offering.

Your attitude sucks and no woman - fat or slim is going to want to be with you

I'm sure your Ma loves you - so ask her where you may be going wrong ...your are nearly beyond help, mate

All I see is 'excuses' for your failings and an element of stubbornness / unwillingness to learn by your mistakes
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2018, 03:14:57 PM
Most guys don't want a fat woman I don't really see what all the problem is here. At least I am being honest or did all you guys go looking in the FSU for a nice big fattie and had instead to settle for a hottie ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 02, 2018, 03:31:57 PM
If all you can attract in the UK is women you find undesirable, the fault lies in you, not the women.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 02, 2018, 03:49:15 PM
Most guys don't want a fat woman I don't really see what all the problem is here. At least I am being honest or did all you guys go looking in the FSU for a nice big fattie and had instead to settle for a hottie ;D

Do you have reading comprehension issues, too ?

We were suggesting you couldn't be choosy... 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2018, 03:54:15 PM
Do you have reading comprehension issues, too ?

We were suggesting you couldn't be choosy...

Based on?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 02, 2018, 04:33:44 PM
Most guys don't want a fat woman I don't really see what all the problem is here. At least I am being honest or did all you guys go looking in the FSU for a nice big fattie and had instead to settle for a hottie ;D
We do and it's not a pretty sight.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 02, 2018, 10:09:23 PM
Based on?

responses like this....

a 'refusal' to change your attitude and your 'sense of humour'
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 02, 2018, 11:04:00 PM
I think this thread title fits better.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2018, 11:27:22 PM
responses like this....

a 'refusal' to change your attitude and your 'sense of humour'

And what exactly is my attitude?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2018, 02:00:12 AM
Asking questions to which you know the anwser being a clue.

Do now you wish to pretend, 'I don't understand'....?!


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 03, 2018, 03:15:20 AM
And what exactly is my attitude?


Your attitude is that UW are dying to "escape" the "dumps" they live in, and will settle for any WM to do so.  You have a further attitude that a woman is there to meet your needs, with no regard for her happiness, her needs, desires for the future, her life.

So in conclusion, your attitude is one of selfishness.  It's not about building a life together.  It's a "what's in it for me", down to "I'll knock her up quickly so that she won't leave me", as if a child will prevent an unhappy woman from leaving you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2018, 08:51:51 AM

Your attitude is that UW are dying to "escape" the "dumps" they live in, and will settle for any WM to do so.  You have a further attitude that a woman is there to meet your needs, with no regard for her happiness, her needs, desires for the future, her life.

So in conclusion, your attitude is one of selfishness.  It's not about building a life together.  It's a "what's in it for me", down to "I'll knock her up quickly so that she won't leave me", as if a child will prevent an unhappy woman from leaving you.

Doesn't everyone ask what's in it for me? Girls included. Sure I accept while they are living in dumpsk's they seem in no hurry to leave prefering to dictate their terms to the guy. Perhaps they are just used to what they are brought up in, they seem to be in no hurry to leave their dumpsk but instead seem to wish to dictate to the guy how things will be when it is he that apparently is holding all of the cards, most peculiar. Do they wish to get with a western guy or not! Are we just supposed to be their b*tches! It appears so.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 03, 2018, 09:07:47 AM

Your attitude is that UW are dying to "escape" the "dumps" they live in, and will settle for any WM to do so.  You have a further attitude that a woman is there to meet your needs, with no regard for her happiness, her needs, desires for the future, her life.

So in conclusion, your attitude is one of selfishness.  It's not about building a life together.  It's a "what's in it for me", down to "I'll knock her up quickly so that she won't leave me", as if a child will prevent an unhappy woman from leaving you.

Doesn't everyone ask what's in it for me? Girls included. Sure I accept while they are living in dumpsk's they seem in no hurry to leave prefering to dictate their terms to the guy. Perhaps they are just used to what they are brought up in, they seem to be in no hurry to leave their dumpsk but instead seem to wish to dictate to the guy how things will be when it is he that apparently is holding all of the cards, most peculiar. Do they wish to get with a western guy or not! Are we just supposed to be their b*tches! It appears so.

Trenchcoat I am reluctant to offer more insight or opinions. It seems to be adding gas to a fire.

To me it is clear you simply do not understand life as the rest of us live it. Relationships are far more complex than you fantasize about. I doubt ANY woman will settle for a long term relationship on your terms.

Asking you to get a hamster or goldfish is akin to animal abuse.

Why not get some therapy and get back to us afterwards.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2018, 09:42:38 AM
You know what I think FSW always think they are right it doesn't matter what sh*tty situation they are in. They will hold onto their obsessive beliefs to the cows come home. Doesn't matter how much you tell them it's complete twaddle or how much evidence you show them of such. Take Boethius for example here, she's always chuffing well right. We might as well all agree with whatever the codswallop comes out off their mouths and thank the gods we are with them!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2018, 09:59:24 AM
If I were Bill Gates they would want Microsoft, if I were Steve Jobs they would want Apple.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 03, 2018, 10:10:48 AM
You know what I think FSW always think they are right it doesn't matter what sh*tty situation they are in. They will hold onto their obsessive beliefs to the cows come home. Doesn't matter how much you tell them it's complete twaddle or how much evidence you show them of such. Take Boethius for example here, she's always chuffing well right. We might as well all agree with whatever the codswallop comes out off their mouths and thank the gods we are with them!
Why the f**k are you looking for one then, you imbecile?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2018, 10:21:21 AM
Why the f**k are you looking for one then, you imbecile?

Why what do you do when your other half (no doubt) displays such attitude?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 03, 2018, 10:35:58 AM
Why what do you do when your other half (no doubt) displays such attitude?
Attitude?

You moron, do you think we are teenagers?

Again, if this is your opinion of FSUW, why are you so keen on them?

Hmmm, let me think?

Could it be because you think you can BUY them with your self styled western wealth?
Go buy yourself a hooker, you poor excuse of a man. Or are they too fat for you? Bwahahahaha.........
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2018, 10:40:16 AM
Attitude?

You moron, do you think we are teenagers?

Again, if this is your opinion of FSUW, why are you so keen on them?

Hmmm, let me think?

Could it be because you think you can BUY them with your self styled western wealth?
Go buy yourself a hooker, you poor excuse of a man. Or are they too fat for you? Bwahahahaha.........

No I have never looked to buy one, yet I find so many try to dictate to me how things will be done - that is what I mean by attitude. Don't you get theat from your wife?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 03, 2018, 10:43:18 AM
No I have never looked to buy one, yet I find so many try to dictate to me how things will be done - that is what I mean by attitude. Don't you get theat from your wife?
I’ve already answered, you twit. Simple comprehension appears beyond you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 03, 2018, 10:44:07 AM
I'm not a FSUW, Trench. 


Every relationship is give and take.  The fact you don't understand that is another reason you will not succeed. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 03, 2018, 11:16:44 AM
As much a paradox as a Jew named Christian. Unfortunately the entertainment value expired midway through the first page.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2018, 11:56:32 AM
I'm not a FSUW, Trench. 


Every relationship is give and take.  The fact you don't understand that is another reason you will not succeed.

No but you act like one since I guess you are off Ukrainian descent. I have never seen you concede a point on here, ever! You press your point home no matter what.

I notice very little give with FSUW just nearly always take if not always.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 03, 2018, 12:10:01 PM
And what should I concede?  I am posting my opinions.  Any poster is free to accept or reject them.  It doesn't matter to me, nor does it bruise my ego or sense of self if someone happens to disagree with me.

Almost every poster here has stated you will not succeed with FSUW.  jone was one of the first to state that.  At the time, the only poster to agree with him was Jay.  Since that time, you have had countless posters, all either in LTR or married to FSUW, post that you wil not succeed in this endeavour.  You were told by moby, before you took your tart to Cyprus, that she was using you.  You chose to ignore that advice.  You were told by virtually every male poster here that your approach in L'viv would be doomed, months before you made that trip.  You refused to believe them.  So it seems to me you are the one who fails to concede in your views, and that is why you perceive UW to be a particular way.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2018, 12:13:31 PM
Well of course it would be my fault again how silly of me.

So when I am faced with a FSW who just demands what do you suggest I do? Since they pretty much all seem to do this.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 03, 2018, 12:38:00 PM
It is who you are choosing.  You have been told this, numerous times, in the past. 

You are 40 years old, and have not the foggiest idea of how to interact with the opposite sex.  This is, er, . . . unusual.  You are middle aged, and should not have to be asking advice about how to interact with women. 

Pack it up and forget this idea.  You will not have a long term successful relationship with an FSUW.  Ever.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2018, 01:08:12 PM
I asking how to deal with the nature of FSW? I very much doubt I am alone on that. From the trip reports on here there are guys that have problems with such? Yes different in some regards to what I had nut that is woman dependant but even still they are coming up against difficult women.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2018, 01:23:18 PM
Oh, also it was my choice to go to Cyprus. I should have chosen a cheaper location but was thinking of the longer term of a place we could both co-exist together. Think she would have gone for Turkey if it was her choice as her friend was apparently there on holiday too and she seemed to quite favour it. Would have been cheaper on me but was early days at this so I just played it how I thought best.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 03, 2018, 02:08:31 PM
It does not matter a whit where you vacation.  You will still be you.


The girl contacted you first, not the other way around.  moby knew that immediately, and warned you, albeit indirectly.


No other poster has whinged like a 14 year old, about spending money or the difficulties they encountered.  That distinction belongs solely to you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 03, 2018, 05:14:15 PM
You know what I think FSW always think they are right it doesn't matter what sh*tty situation they are in. They will hold onto their obsessive beliefs to the cows come home. Doesn't matter how much you tell them it's complete twaddle or how much evidence you show them of such. Take Boethius for example here, she's always chuffing well right. We might as well all agree with whatever the codswallop comes out off their mouths and thank the gods we are with them!

You do understand the basic principle that it is another human being,an individual, that is part of the relationship right?

Like yourself ,they might have thoughts. Ideas,dreams,expectations in life,in love, in a marriage partner.
I can assure you some of the key things anyone expects,make or female is mutual respect,trust and  admiration.
Admiration doesnt mean of their physical properties, of who they are as a person.

You expect that ,dont you?

That's basically what a woman expects in return as well.
It's not more complex than that.

You are meeting the wrong personalities, because you have these preconceived notions and thoughts of women,  it effects the entire communication and exchange,
 nor do you really respect the other person ,their thoughts and feelings, nor do you really trust them.

  I'm not jumping in to bash you, I'm trying to make you reflect a bit more.
Everyone can use some healthy soul searching once in awhile.!

I'm just a regular guy,  I'm a good husband and father, i can provide for a family in a quite routine blue collar level.
My wife is self confident,but also a self improvement person.
She looks for ways to be a better person, better wife,better mother.
She certainly doesnt think she is always right ,and in fact often reflects on the other side of issues even if she has a strongly held opinion on a subject.She will certainly apologize if a situation warrants it,and admit she was wrong.Shes funny, intelligent, ethical and quite brave.
I deeply admire her.
Most of her friends are similar in character traits.
 There are some cultural nuances,there are some negative stereotypes, that doesnt mean any given individual is anything.at all like those.

I really met any number of women of good character and personality,sure some were not a perfect match romantically or long term compatable.
However they were nothing like you currently believe  fsu women generally *are*.

 I'm not sure what exactly you can change in your approach to meet a normal woman in the fsu. Because as has been beat to death it's not the type of approach that handicaps your search,  it's your mentality, a true lack of empathy and understanding of another persons individuality,cares  ,and concerns.
You decide they must be thinking* a certain way, because of any random act they do, or something they say, or have your .misguided idea of what they think ,or will do in a marriage, often its before you have ever met them.

 You havnt gotten to any real stage of getting to know someone.Thats one reason why you decide for yourself  what they *must* be thinking.

You really have to be open to both getting  to really know someone,and them knowing you.That requires a level of up front trust and empathy.

That does not mean to tolerate poor behaviour, it does mean to not think every tiniest thing,before you know someone well,is some indicator of a horrible trait meant to use you.

The train girl-
 My guess is odds are she pegged you as sex tourist.
It's your job to overcome that.
It's not fair,not much in life us.
If truly interested ,you'd need to pursue her,really pursue.and by actions,not words, prove you are a steadfast decent guy ,a family man.That's what she is accustomed to.Thats how romance works in her culture.
You are the one who chose to.look  there.

No ,that does not mean leading with your wallet,or passport,but it does mean leading with your character,which should be ethical and considerate of someone you hope to care for.

Apply that to anyone you have interest in.

I certainly still wish you success and happiness.













Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 03, 2018, 07:59:10 PM
Geez guys you are still trying to explain the basics of human interaction and relationships to a 40 year old! Can’t you see - he is not getting it! He will never get it! You might as well be trying to teach him about rocket science. In fact rocket science might come easier to Trench than human relationships.

He is a typical highly functioning autistic - he is simply handicapped in all areas of human interaction. What seems natural to you - is out of his reach. He simply cannot put himself in other person’s shoes so to speak.

There is a very interesting discussion board called “Wrong Planet” - full of Trenchcoats. Men who cannot have or sustain a relationship with women because of their disability . He is not like you - he is not neurotypical. Might as well be a different species. He is simply not capable of a relationship, be it with a woman or real friendship.
One good thing is that he is not resentful to the point of getting aggressive like some.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 03, 2018, 08:15:05 PM
"He is a typical highly functioning autistic"

I'm actually one myself, although I prefer to say "on the spectrum"
your conception that people on the spectrum cannot have successful relationships is WRONG
spend a minute on Google and see for yourself
I myself have been happily married to a Russian woman for nearly 19 yrs
Trench's main limitation is financial, if he were wealthy a woman would find HIM!!!
all of my success with Russian/Ukrainian women was facilitated by deep pockets
no money - no honey

people on the spectrum learn to simulate normal behavior and can fit in just as good as anyone else
I've managed to coax quite a few Russian women into my bed over the years
I don't think being on the spectrum impacted me in any negative way at all
actually just the opposite, it gave me a cognitive advantage
what you're talking are "Incels" Involuntary Celibate
I have not been celibate since I was 14
but was on the spectrum the moment I was born
soory wrong conclusion


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 03, 2018, 08:23:52 PM
"He is a typical highly functioning autistic"

I'm actually one myself, although I prefer to say "on the spectrum"
your conception that people on the spectrum cannot have successful relationships is WRONG
spend a minute on Google and see for yourself
I myself have been happily married to a Russian woman for nearly 19 yrs
Trench's main limitation is financial, if he were wealthy a woman would find HIM!!!
all of my success with Russian/Ukrainian women was facilitated by deep pockets
no money - no honey

people on the spectrum learn to simulate normal behavior and can fit in just as good as anyone else
I've managed to coax quite a few Russian women into my bed over the years
I don't think being on the spectrum impacted me in any negative way at all
actually just the opposite, it gave me a cognitive advantage
what you're talking are "Incels" Involuntary Celibate
I have not been celibate since I was 14
but was on the spectrum the moment I was born
soory wrong conclusion

I am not talking about you - but about Trench. His main problem has nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with his disability, and his impairment is significant and is fully in the area of social interaction and relationship.

The fact that you cannot see this glaringly obvious fact from his writings certainly speaks to you also being on the spectrum granted not as severely affected. It is called a spectrum for a reason.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 03, 2018, 08:24:47 PM
"He is a typical highly functioning autistic"

I'm actually one myself, although I prefer to say "on the spectrum"
your conception that people on the spectrum cannot have successful relationships is WRONG
spend a minute on Google and see for yourself
I myself have been happily married to a Russian woman for nearly 19 yrs
Trench's main limitation is financial, if he were wealthy a woman would find HIM!!!
all of my success with Russian/Ukrainian women was facilitated by deep pockets
no money - no honey

people on the spectrum learn to simulate normal behavior and can fit in just as good as anyone else
I've managed to coax quite a few Russian women into my bed over the years
I don't think being on the spectrum impacted me in any negative way at all
actually just the opposite, it gave me a cognitive advantage
what you're talking are "Incels" Involuntary Celibate
I have not been celibate since I was 14
but was on the spectrum the moment I was born
soory wrong conclusion
quite a lot of Incels are on the spectrum too btw
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 03, 2018, 08:28:06 PM
If Trench is 'on the spectrum' then I'm a Dalek ..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 03, 2018, 08:33:14 PM
physician perhaps you  should heal thyself first
before diagnosing others






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 03, 2018, 08:34:24 PM
"then I'm a Dalek"

Good God run and get Dr Who quickly the machines are here!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 03, 2018, 08:37:22 PM
oh wait, that was a joke...whew....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 03, 2018, 10:39:45 PM
Geez guys you are still trying to explain the basics of human interaction and relationships to a 40 year old! Can’t you see - he is not getting it! He will never get it! You might as well be trying to teach him about rocket science. In fact rocket science might come easier to Trench than human relationships.

He is a typical highly functioning autistic - he is simply handicapped in all areas of human interaction. What seems natural to you - is out of his reach. He simply cannot put himself in other person’s shoes so to speak.

There is a very interesting discussion board called “Wrong Planet” - full of Trenchcoats. Men who cannot have or sustain a relationship with women because of their disability . He is not like you - he is not neurotypical. Might as well be a different species. He is simply not capable of a relationship, be it with a woman or real friendship.
One good thing is that he is not resentful to the point of getting aggressive like some.

Excellent post but does Trench agree? People aren't going to fix something that they don't think is broke...at least most of the time.

I've said from the beginning Trench showed up he needs to change himself if he's to be successful with women. Some people thought I was wrong. I doubt people think I'm wrong now. I want Trench and all guys here to succeed but ultimately, it's up to them to make changes that makes them more appealing to women.

A lot of guys have problems interacting with women. They need to make adjustments otherwise loneliness with be their companion for life.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2018, 12:39:22 AM
"He is a typical highly functioning autistic"

I'm actually one myself, although I prefer to say "on the spectrum"
your conception that people on the spectrum cannot have successful relationships is WRONG
spend a minute on Google and see for yourself
I myself have been happily married to a Russian woman for nearly 19 yrs
Trench's main limitation is financial, if he were wealthy a woman would find HIM!!!
all of my success with Russian/Ukrainian women was facilitated by deep pockets
no money - no honey

people on the spectrum learn to simulate normal behavior and can fit in just as good as anyone else
I've managed to coax quite a few Russian women into my bed over the years
I don't think being on the spectrum impacted me in any negative way at all
actually just the opposite, it gave me a cognitive advantage
what you're talking are "Incels" Involuntary Celibate
I have not been celibate since I was 14
but was on the spectrum the moment I was born
soory wrong conclusion

Ah Krimster, we might get a bit of sense out of you :)

Any interaction in the FSU I'm sure you will understand is not about just the man but also the woman. Now I'm guessing it is likely that these women that are left well the majority of them probably have some issue as to why they have been passed over by FSUM.

I feel that many are arbitrary, stubborn, down right pig headed call it what you will - that it's theor wah or the highway type of person - and that they refuse to compromise, many in fact don't seem to even know what that is. The big question is:

'How do you deal with such women?'

I have a few ideas but I am not sure they are the complete answer. I am now starting to think that the answer is, 'you don't'. That it is these women that are incapable of a LTR which is why they have been left on the side. That they will eventually destroy any relationship and so are not worth the time outlay in the first place. I am thinking that this is probably the conclusion FSUM have come to, perhaps yourself too, what are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on August 04, 2018, 01:22:01 AM
Any interaction in the FSU I'm sure you will understand is not about just the man but also the woman. Now I'm guessing it is likely that these women that are left well the majority of them probably have some issue as to why they have been passed over by FSUM.

I feel that many are arbitrary, stubborn, down right pig headed call it what you will - that it's theor wah or the highway type of person - and that they refuse to compromise, many in fact don't seem to even know what that is. The big question is:

'How do you deal with such women?'

I have a few ideas but I am not sure they are the complete answer. I am now starting to think that the answer is, 'you don't'. That it is these women that are incapable of a LTR which is why they have been left on the side. That they will eventually destroy any relationship and so are not worth the time outlay in the first place. I am thinking that this is probably the conclusion FSUM have come to, perhaps yourself too, what are your thoughts?

The problem isn't with the women, it's with you and - for whatever reason - your lack of understanding of human social interaction.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 01:55:19 AM
"I feel that many are arbitrary, stubborn, down right pig headed call it what you will - that it's theor wah or the highway type of person - and that they refuse to compromise, many in fact don't seem to even know what that is. The big question is:

'How do you deal with such women?'"



your're 100% right!!!!  this is how pretty much ALL WOMEN BEHAVE!!!!
and you think that's bad, I have 3 women in my household, 3 and they're ALL THIS WAY!!!!

so what do I do?
I make it a priority to give them what they want!
I spend a huge amount of money, time, and effort to provide for their material needs
I am also the person they come and see when they have a problem that needs to be solved
so in that respect, I am irreplaceable, and they need to be "on my good side"
in all cases, I have provided wise counsel to them, so my opinions are eagerly sought
I am by nature "a good spirited" positive person who doesn't get angry that often
but when I do get angry, it frightens the women, and I have come to use that fear as a tool
so if it appears I'm heading in that direction, they will immediately stop the provocation
bottom line: in my house I am King, and my loyal subjects try to remain on my good side by not making me upset
in return, I provide for them all that they wish and they know a loving hand watches over them
but give the devil his due or he will get cross...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2018, 02:45:35 AM
"I feel that many are arbitrary, stubborn, down right pig headed call it what you will - that it's theor wah or the highway type of person - and that they refuse to compromise, many in fact don't seem to even know what that is. The big question is:

'How do you deal with such women?'"



your're 100% right!!!!  this is how pretty much ALL WOMEN BEHAVE!!!!
and you think that's bad, I have 3 women in my household, 3 and they're ALL THIS WAY!!!!

so what do I do?
I make it a priority to give them what they want!
I spend a huge amount of money, time, and effort to provide for their material needs
I am also the person they come and see when they have a problem that needs to be solved
so in that respect, I am irreplaceable, and they need to be "on my good side"
in all cases, I have provided wise counsel to them, so my opinions are eagerly sought
I am by nature "a good spirited" positive person who doesn't get angry that often
but when I do get angry, it frightens the women, and I have come to use that fear as a tool
so if it appears I'm heading in that direction, they will immediately stop the provocation
bottom line: in my house I am King, and my loyal subjects try to remain on my good side by not making me upset
in return, I provide for them all that they wish and they know a loving hand watches over them
but give the devil his due or he will get cross...

Thanks for that Krimster it really helps to clear it up a bit, most appreciate, looks like I might just have to bend over to a good arse whipping from a lady then ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 03:22:23 AM
metaphorically I suppose
Russian women sometimes need a firm hand, as well as a gentle hand
I set boundaries for the women in my house
I do not tolerate their abuse to me or to each other
when they do something that makes me angry
my demeanor changes from a kind sweet loving person
into a monster, and it terrifies them
so this maybe happens once or twice a year, and they never forget it
what's funny, is it's all an act!!!
I put on this "air of malevolence" and it must be terrifying based on their response
anyway, that's one approach that works for me

when you live around a lot of women you get used to their PMS induced behavior and you learn to just glide above it

I really disagree with others assessment of you, I've seen guys with terrible interpersonal skills
but were very wealthy, and they had women all over the place....
the fact of no money means you have to compensate in some other way
if you were a bit younger, I'd advise you to "re-invent" yourself
and become more interesting and more out-going
and of course make more money!!!!
maybe you could embark on a shorter journey of reinvention
but think you should change something
and not try same thing over and over expecting a different result






 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on August 04, 2018, 03:39:40 AM
Krimster and Trench exchanging in conversation... this is like reading a rejected part of the manuscript to  (http://icons.iconarchive.com/icons/firstline1/movie-mega-pack-1/256/Dumb-Dumber-icon.png)  :rolleyes:


I notice that Trench found a soulmate...
(http://files.cafe.se/uploads/2016/01/y671v.gif)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 03:40:56 AM
it must be weird having a child's mind in an adult's body what's it like?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 04:48:48 AM
Nacht Wiesel, I actually don’t mind admitting that I feel a lot of sympathy for Trench
and would like him to be successful in his quest
and I see nothing wrong in that
he takes more abuse on this forum then any other person
and chooses not to fling it back the way I would
and I think that’s a VERY good quality
and might be a good example for you to follow

i’m sure you’ll respond with your usual nasty remarks, cuz that’s basically ALL that’s inside you
and your remarks are just a reflection of a sad little middle-aged man filled with resentment and anger that he needs to vent on someone, so go ahead.....
reading about your so called relationships in Ukraine over the last few years
has been good for a few chuckles and that’s about all
and totally laughable that you think your meager adventures qualify you
to criticize Trench
I suspect that Trench actually has a better mental attitude than yours
and I really think you’ve picked on Trench long enough now
go bully someone else

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2018, 07:04:43 AM
Nope. Virtually every poster here has tried to help him and come to the same conclusion. He’s a misogynist who thinks he is “entitled” to a woman from a “dump” and she will be grateful to move into his hovel, where she will be thrilled to have a life confined to the kitchen and bedroom. She can take a menial job to keep herself in clothes and toiletries.

This is not someone who should be encouraged.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 07:23:05 AM
and what if you are WRONG BO?
did that possibility ever occur to you?
that you have come to the wrong conclusion
that you have misjudged
based on insufficient material presented here

maybe I see something in Trench others don't
but I don't see any reason to not treat him like a fellow human being
so what if you disagree with his opinions
is that a requirement to be treated decently on this board?


you cannot judge without also being judged
and NONE of us is without sin
not even you BO!!

if ALL of you who accuse Trench
are also sinners yourself in some way
then what does that make you?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2018, 07:32:51 AM
We may be sinners but we don’t view FSUW as less than human, but rather, as human beings with their own thoughts and desires. Jumper summed it up nicely. Everyone here tried to help Trench, but his attitudes, exposed in over 2,000 posts, have given him away and he either is unwilling or incapable of change.

Perhaps you should consider that if 99/100 people see a bird while you see a spaceship, you were mistaken.

In a way, encouraging him is cruel.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 04, 2018, 07:48:25 AM
Why the f**k are you looking for one then, you imbecile?

Please stop[ being so nice to him !!  Too many compliments  :welcome: :wallbash:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 07:55:08 AM
“Perhaps you should consider that if 99/100 people see a bird while you see a spaceship, you were mistaken.”



so when Copernicus understood that the earth was NOT the center of the universe while everyone else on the planet thought it was, he should’ve listened to them, because the majority is always right?

I don’t think so, you should know better than to follow that line of thought...

Trench is just everyone’s favorite whipping boy, and I think it’s gone on long enough
 
everyone is entitled to their own point of view, if Trench is not ALLOWED to have his opinion, then why are you or anyone else entitled to theirs, just because some opinions agree with your biases?

and that’s all this is
none of us, not even you, are omnipotent and all knowing
there’s a mountain we don’t know compared to the grain of sand that we do know
so to judge based upon a grain of sand will not be a legitimate judgment
so I’ll skip the part of judging Trench, this is not my concern
and really shouldn’t be anyone else’s either

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 07:56:30 AM
hey JayH?
when was the last time you were in Crimea?
I left two days ago
I hope your information is not old and obsolete
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2018, 08:02:30 AM
I never posted Trench is not allowed to have an opinion. But you are encouraging an underemployed misogynist who doesn’t earn enough money to import a spouse to pursue a fantasy. It’s not going to happen. So, who is crueler?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 04, 2018, 08:04:55 AM
“Perhaps you should consider that if 99/100 people see a bird while you see a spaceship, you were mistaken.”



so when Copernicus understood that the earth was NOT the center of the universe while everyone else on the planet thought it was, he should’ve listened to them, because the majority is always right?

I don’t think so, you should know better than to follow that line of thought...

Trench is just everyone’s favorite whipping boy, and I think it’s gone on long enough
 
everyone is entitled to their own point of view, if Trench is not ALLOWED to have his opinion, then why are you or anyone else entitled to theirs, just because some opinions agree with your biases?

and that’s all this is
none of us, not even you, are omnipotent and all knowing
there’s a mountain we don’t know compared to the grain of sand that we do know
so to judge based upon a grain of sand will not be a legitimate judgment
so I’ll skip the part of judging Trench, this is not my concern
and really shouldn’t be anyone else’s either
You cannot tell others what they should and should not think or if they should or should not judge someone. And you are not a Copernicus by any stretch of imagination!


99% of posters here see the obvious -


Trench is disabled in the most important area of human existence - relationship building and compassion. He should not be encouraged to look for any woman. If by some chance a naive or desperate woman marries him - he will most probably ruin her life. Heaven forbid he fathers a child!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 04, 2018, 08:12:03 AM


Trench is just everyone’s favorite whipping boy, and I think it’s gone on long enough
 

He has repeatedly proven he is a complete and utter f..wit  .

He  believes dope smoking idiots who post while stoned    and sex tourists like Roosh  ,plus some who want to relive a life in another time ( as they seek to attempt to display their bona fides)  that is close to irrelevant today  , instead of taking some generally solid advice !!!

Mrs B has summed it up again in the last few days  so even the moronic could get it !!

Maybe when he stops posting stupid -- he would get more tolerance (- which btw --the huge majority here displayed for a all to long a period  here have done until it became obvious he was beyond help. . ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 08:25:24 AM
“I never posted Trench is not allowed to have an opinion.”

you’re saying his opinion is not legitimate and labeling him is the same thing
he has exactly the same right to express his views here as you or питбуль
and your judgments are not infallible and are based on your own biases

it would be like me saying, “damn I LOVE cheeseburgers, there’s nothing better than a nice juicy quarter pounder with cheese”, and a vegetarian saying, “doncha know meat is destroying the planet you uncaring jerk”

so Trench is the meat eater and you’re the vegetarian
all this is subjective, and that’s my point
if it’s subjective it’s just one opinion against another
and there’s NO such thing as a CORRECT opinion

so you consider Trench to be “the jerk” here
and honestly I don’t think he is

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 08:26:51 AM
"You cannot tell others what they should and should not think or if they should or should not judge someone. And you are not a Copernicus by any stretch of imagination!"


I'm guessing that you don't see the irony in your statement, or even know what that means...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 04, 2018, 08:43:22 AM
"You cannot tell others what they should and should not think or if they should or should not judge someone. And you are not a Copernicus by any stretch of imagination!"


I'm guessing that you don't see the irony in your statement, or even know what that means...


I am guessing you are just siding with a fellow impaired human
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 04, 2018, 08:46:23 AM
“I never posted Trench is not allowed to have an opinion.”

you’re saying his opinion is not legitimate and labeling him is the same thing
he has exactly the same right to express his views here as you or питбуль
and your judgments are not infallible and are based on your own biases

it would be like me saying, “damn I LOVE cheeseburgers, there’s nothing better than a nice juicy quarter pounder with cheese”, and a vegetarian saying, “doncha know meat is destroying the planet you uncaring jerk”

so Trench is the meat eater and you’re the vegetarian
all this is subjective, and that’s my point
if it’s subjective it’s just one opinion against another
and there’s NO such thing as a CORRECT opinion

so you consider Trench to be “the jerk” here
and honestly I don’t think he is


Sure thing preferences in food are subjective. Being an emotionally and socially impaired individual is objective, and only someone similarly impaired cannot see it
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 09:00:36 AM
“He has repeatedly proven he is a complete and utter f..wit  .”

calling someone names proves something about YOU as well Jay
what’s proven is YOUR lack of tolerance to others
 
some human experience is transcendent, I’ve about finished a book called “The New Man” by Henry Clay Bruce.  an extremely erudite and insightful book written almost 150 yr ago by a black man who spent half his life as a slave in the south, but when freed headed north and received a University education, his amazing book explains all the social factors that makes up race relations in the south, everything that goes on TODAY AT THIS VERY MOMENT JAY can be traced back to his observations nearly 150 years ago, an amazing book available on project gutenberg!

so depending on who is doing the observation, their findings can be timeless
as I’ve said, I just returned, and everything I wrote a year ago is just as true today
nothing would have to be altered based on what I saw

so rather then defend my view as being current, I would say your view about who was last there
and whoever was last there has the correct information, and the person who was there before that doesn’t have the correct information, is just rubbish Jay!

why continue with this, but I’m sure you will...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 09:08:50 AM
"Being an emotionally and socially impaired individual is objective, and only someone similarly impaired cannot see it"

again with the ironic statements!!
you are ALMOST speaking the truth now!!!!
you just have to make one little change for your statement to be true!!!

Being an emotionally and socially impaired individual is SUBJECTIVE, and only someone similarly impaired cannot see it"

there, and this is my point

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 09:18:29 AM
“I am guessing you are just siding with a fellow impaired human”

for once, you are at least PARTIALLY correct!
this is an improvement, here’s a cookie!  good girl!

I would say “I am just siding with a fellow human”

and if that makes me a sinner in YOUR world
then I am glad I don’t live in your world

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 04, 2018, 09:43:48 AM
Most here have tried to help Trenchcoat, he seems incapable of listening to advice or accepting suggestions.

Regarding Copernicus, I am reminded of the father and mother bird watch there turtle climb a tree limb yet again.

He launches himself only to fall to the ground.

The mother bird sighs and says to her husband 'perhaps we should tell our son he was adopted.'
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 10:13:30 AM
"Most here have tried to help Trenchcoat, he seems incapable of listening to advice or accepting suggestions."

have you ever raised Children?
it changes your perspective and invokes patience with others
this is where I'm coming from
patience and understanding
and this is a better plateau to be on
then disapproving comments or judgments.

it's not that I can't find fault in Trench, I can...
but fault lies not JUST in Trench but in ALL of us...
so why pick on just one person
and frankly I don't like the way everyone gangs up on him
you act like a pack of wolves
disappointed... hope everyone thinks about what I'm saying


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 04, 2018, 11:30:52 AM
Most here have tried to help Trenchcoat, he seems incapable of listening to advice or accepting suggestions.

Regarding Copernicus, I am reminded of the father and mother bird watch there turtle climb a tree limb yet again.

He launches himself only to fall to the ground.

The mother bird sighs and says to her husband 'perhaps we should tell our son he was adopted.'


What does 'there turtle' mean?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 04, 2018, 02:23:11 PM
Hey, Trench. I’m on my way to Kyiv. You could have come along and shown me your pick up moves.
I could have reported back here in real time.  :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2018, 02:28:41 PM
you’re saying his opinion is not legitimate and labeling him is the same thing

No, I'm saying that his attitude will lead to inevitable failure. 

I have no issue calling a spade a spade, and Trenchcoat certainly is a misogynist.
Quote

he has exactly the same right to express his views here as you or питбуль
and your judgments are not infallible and are based on your own biases

No doubt.  However, I have been around long enough to understand that actions have consequences, and his actions will lead to inevitable consequences.

Quote
it would be like me saying, “damn I LOVE cheeseburgers, there’s nothing better than a nice juicy quarter pounder with cheese”, and a vegetarian saying, “doncha know meat is destroying the planet you uncaring jerk"

so Trench is the meat eater and you’re the vegetarian
all this is subjective, and that’s my point
if it’s subjective it’s just one opinion against another
and there’s NO such thing as a CORRECT opinion/quote] [[[[

No, it would be more like Hitler saying "Jews must be eradicated." and me responding "You must change your views on Jews."  It would be almost impossible.  Such views are so deeply ingrained, they are exceptionally difficult to change.

Quote
so you consider Trench to be “the jerk” here
and honestly I don’t think he is
No, I think that he is a damaged person.  He could seek therapy to go back to what caused that damage and try to reverse it.

All of us are damaged by life, but most of us are not in a way that will inflict emotional pain on others.  I don't believe that would be intentional on his part, but it would be the result with 99.99% of women. 

I think if he is absolutely honest, and either lists his expectations in his profile, or tells them to each woman early, first or second meeting, ("I am seeking marriage.  I intend to have children almost immediately so that you are tied to me.  I don't make enough money to support a family comfortably, so you will have to work to buy your own clothes and toiletries, and have a little spending money.  This job should be menial, so it doesn't interfere with what I desire.  I will not support you or fund you if you intend to seek higher education.  I will expect you always to do all the cooking and cleaning during our entire marriage.  I will expect you to wear short skirts to ensure I am always turned on."), then at least he will have been upfront, and given a woman who does not agree with those expectations a chance to not waste her time. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 04, 2018, 03:13:08 PM
"Most here have tried to help Trenchcoat, he seems incapable of listening to advice or accepting suggestions."

have you ever raised Children?
it changes your perspective and invokes patience with others


Yes, I have four children, Sometimes I was the only parent present.

Last week I was at the wedding of one on the West Coast. Both ex-wifes were present, My daughter who just married is director in a specialist design company. My son is lead IT person in a travel agency with over 40 employees. My other daughter is University in England and has a political and language major.

Yes I have raised children, if any showed the 'qualities' of Trenchcoat I would take hem behind the proverbial woodshed.

The issue and something both you and some others refuse to acknowledge is the emoltional and mental flaws of TrenchCoat. This person is so deeply flawed that he could not keep a pet alive. ANY woman who decides on an relationship with him is a poster child for an abuse victim.

Trenchcoat exhibits at least on the forum ZERO empathy and little social skills. HE IS DOOMED!

Please Krimester return to functional normal
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 03:39:11 PM
“No, I'm saying that his attitude will lead to inevitable failure. “

honestly I don’t think ANYTHING is “inevitable”
life is way too complicated for that
frankly I’ve seen a LOT of REALLY GOOD people fail
and I’ve seen people like Trump succeed beyond their wildest imagination...
success is not based on being good or bad
a lot of times success is nothing more than luck
or having the guts to just go and try

“No, I think that he is a damaged person.”

underneath, I think so as well but maybe differently than you
I did kind of explore this a little...
maybe why a part of me wants to protect him from his attackers
I think I see something you and others don’t and that’s all I want to say about that

“No, it would be more like Hitler saying "Jews must be eradicated." and me responding "You must change your views on Jews."

it’s one thing to have a negative view about Jews, another to want to eradicate them
I think you’re stretching your analogy here by including eradication

bottom line his beliefs and opinions aren’t compatible with yours, so he’s “bad”
this is what I see,  please leave Jews, Nazis, etc out of the story....

“All of us are damaged by life, but most of us are not in a way that will inflict emotional pain on others.

people change, after almost 19 yr of marriage and two children
I am a completely different person than I was before I was married
all relationships are a struggle with emotional pain
you never had emotional pain from your spouse or children?
if so, you are the luckiest person on the planet

if Trench can go find someone, I say good for him
and MAYBE it will be good for his partner as well
let them have their chance, and see if they can make it work
doesn’t every single human being deserve to have this chance?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 03:46:43 PM
wow BdHvA  4 grown kids!  today I find myself envying you after having a big argument with my oldest over her behavior, sigh
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2018, 03:51:17 PM
honestly I don’t think ANYTHING is “inevitable”
life is way too complicated for that
frankly I’ve seen a LOT of REALLY GOOD people fail
and I’ve seen people like Trump succeed beyond their wildest imagination...
success is not based on being good or bad
a lot of times success is nothing more than luck
or having the guts to just go and try

Nature, and life, has rules.  What you see is an outward success.

I am not referring to financial, or worldly success.  I am referring to success in a relationship.  You can't have true intimacy with your partner if you believe you are rescuing her, or doing her a favour by importing her.

Every man here who has railed against "evil feminists" has failed in his marriage to an FSUW. 
Quote
it’s one thing to have a negative view about Jews, another to want to eradicate them
I think you’re stretching your analogy here by including eradication

bottom line his beliefs and opinions aren’t compatible with yours, so he’s “bad”
this is what I see,  please leave Jews, Nazis, etc out of the story....

Most of the men posting here have beliefs and opinions that are not compatible with mine.  That doesn't mean they are bad.  I don't expect people to have views that align with mine, although those few that do "get" me.  Most of the rest don't.  Furthermore, I have never posted that Trench is "bad", just that this journey is not for him.  I base that not solely on one front (his repugnant views on women, including UW), but also on his lack of drive and his lack of money to finance this venture.
Quote
people change, after almost 19 yr of marriage and two children
I am a completely different person than I was before I was married
all relationships are a struggle with emotional pain
you never had emotional pain from your spouse or children?
if so, you are the luckiest person on the planet

I have never had emotional pain from my husband.  From my children, more worry than pain.  However, the core of who I was is the same.  Life has made me less open, but I am basically the same person.

Quote
if Trench can go find someone, I say good for him
and MAYBE it will be good for his partner as well
let them have their chance, and see if they can make it work
doesn’t every single human being deserve to have this chance?

He is wasting time and money.  That is why I suggest he put exactly what he wants in a profile.  At least then, he will filter out sincere women who don't want a life like his.  He will have to filter out the scammers from among the rest.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2018, 03:53:52 PM
wow BdHvA  4 grown kids!  today I find myself envying you after having a big argument with my oldest over her behavior, sigh


I believe three are grown, one is still fairly young.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 04:17:12 PM
“I am not referring to financial, or worldly success.  I am referring to success in a relationship.  You can't have true intimacy with your partner if you believe you are rescuing her, or doing her a favour by importing her.”

really?  my wife grew up in a two room shack with no indoor toilet in an agricultural village in Crimea, I TOTALLY think I rescued her, and you know what? so does she!
I don’t know how it would be possible to have more shared intimacy with my wife than what I have now it would probably involve surgery and not be pleasant at all

so contradiction there!!!

“Every man here who has railed against "evil feminists" has failed in his marriage to an FSUW.”
 
Evil feminists, is there some other kind? oops, I’m railing but yet I’ve been married 19 yr

so contradiction there as well!!!

this is my point, your rules might apply to a large population in terms of some statistical probability, but to an individual it’s not so easy to predict, I just broke two of your rules, yet been married 19 yr

i’ve seen some funky relationships in Ukraine that were successful, like a 60+ yr old American guy and a 28 yr old UW, and I’ve seen MANY of these where you just scratch your head and wonder...

it’s why I don’t think there are any rules

EXCEPT FOR ONE BIG ONE!!!!!
NO REALLY, REALLY BIG ONE!!!!

NO MONEY!  NO HONEY!

this we can both agree on, to me this is his main problem



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 04, 2018, 04:25:47 PM

it’s why I don’t think there are any rules

EXCEPT FOR ONE BIG ONE!!!!!
NO REALLY, REALLY BIG ONE!!!!

NO MONEY!  NO HONEY!

I asked my spouse whether she would still love me if I lost all my money.

She said:  Yes of course . . . and I would miss you too!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 04:49:57 PM
the most touching example of love between a married couple
I saw on the streets of Sevastopol many, many years ago
there was a homeless couple going through a garbage bin
in Russia they’re called “bumzhee”
both middle aged and rather short with baggy ill fitting and filthy clothes
I was watching them out of the corner of my eye inconspicuously
as they pawed through the garbage
the man fished out an uneaten pancake, and held it between his thumb and forefinger
examining it closely, when he was satisfied, he held it out beaming to his partner
and she smiled back at him and took only half and they shared it
standing next to the garbage dumpster on a cold winter’s day in Sevastopol
I had tears in my eyes, damned wind was fierce that day...
the human condition, love, pain, death
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2018, 05:47:32 PM
Did you set out believing in a power differential in the relationship because she was poor?  Did you let her know that?

Do you want your daughters to forgo education, marry young, toil as shopclerks, and take care of their husbands?  No college, no career as physicians?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 06:58:48 PM
“Did you set out believing in a power differential in the relationship because she was poor?  Did you let her know that?”

haha, you are so amusing
power differential?  who do you think wields the “power” in my family, me or my wife?
she does!
I honestly don’t care about power or “control” over anyone!
my obsessive compulsive engineering mind is stuck in whatever project I’m working on!
I’ve been that way since I was a child
it’s HER kitchen!
HER house!
HER rules!
it’s why the kids always come running to me for help!
“Daddy help, she’s gone full slav!”
I have a much “softer” personality than my wife’s “full slav” Russian one!!!
whatever economic disparity there was between us, obviously disappeared once we were married
mi casa/dinero, su casa/dinero
my wife has a very typical domineering Russian personality
and a pretty strong one at that
so I’m the one in danger from power and control issues and not her
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 04, 2018, 07:10:00 PM
I meant when you married. The description of your relationship is one of the FSUW characteristics Trench specifically rails against. It’s one of the reasons everyone else here states he won’t be successful.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 04, 2018, 07:55:15 PM
I was very much the "doting" husband during my first year of marriage
maybe in some ways paternal, because my wife had SO MUCH to learn!
so natural I would be her teacher

yeah, the dominant Russian woman thing
that can be difficult to deal with!
it's why I have a large house
one wing of the house is "mine" and where I have my workshop
and the second floor belongs to the kids
with a lot of space we can retreat to our own territory if need be
over time, you learn NOT to press each other's buttons
so most of the time life is peaceful
however, if there ARE tensions
Russians aren't very good at expressing emotions in a calm way
or at communicating
so you have to learn how to interact in a way that doesn't ESCALATE tensions
and I'm pretty good at being able to communicate calmly


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2018, 12:23:53 PM
I was very much the "doting" husband during my first year of marriage
maybe in some ways paternal, because my wife had SO MUCH to learn!
so natural I would be her teacher

yeah, the dominant Russian woman thing
that can be difficult to deal with!
it's why I have a large house
one wing of the house is "mine" and where I have my workshop
and the second floor belongs to the kids
with a lot of space we can retreat to our own territory if need be
over time, you learn NOT to press each other's buttons
so most of the time life is peaceful
however, if there ARE tensions
Russians aren't very good at expressing emotions in a calm way
or at communicating
so you have to learn how to interact in a way that doesn't ESCALATE tensions
and I'm pretty good at being able to communicate calmly

Now why I wouldn't condone brutality towards women, would you say a light gentle smack on the lady's bum from time to time might be the sort of stick sometimes needed Krimster?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 05, 2018, 01:17:50 PM
So now you are back to trolling?

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2018, 01:38:58 PM
So now you are back to trolling?

 :popcorn:

Not at all, it's a serious question.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 05, 2018, 01:41:23 PM
"the smack on the bum"?

No!  maybe "pat on the bum" but that's for play

I would never ever, ever, use violence within my family, not even that
but INTIMIDATION? absolutely!
I think because I am normally soft spoken and easy going
that when I do get outwardly angry due to something that someone in my family does
they find this display of anger intimidating
so I am able to make "an act" of being "the big angry man"
and THIS WORKS!!!
Russian women are naturally intimidated by the big angry man
this is all I have to do!
my kids kind of know I'm acting, but my wife hasn't figured this out yet, even after 19 yr!!!
if my kids cross me, I cut them off financially for a week or two
ohhh the tears this causes....

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on August 05, 2018, 02:54:15 PM
Quote
How so? You use the insert quote function and doing so is courteous and makes one's responses easier to read and to SEE the persons message to which you are responding TO...  It is impossible to know to whom you are replying and what they refer to ... 

Msmob, the Insert Quote function requires deleting half the message to just show the relevant portion, and requires scrolling up and down a zillion times.  It's much easier to have 2 windows open, and copy and paste only the text that I am responding to.

It's not impossible to know to whom I am replying, but it does require a few cognitive abilities.  Brain exercises to fend off age related cognitive decline...

Quote
You are an idealist - and haven't experienced reality....  ALL your points are your beliefs ... they are not mine - your 'reminding' me of my vows doesn't bring about a sense of guilt - *I* know what I did was for the best - for others I love

You have no idea of the reality I have faced, so don't assume you know.

The ideals that a person strives towards reflects the kind of world they wish to live in.

If you have no guilty conscience about breaking your vows to obtain the end result you want, that simply means that you are a sociopath.

Quote
Why are you on this forum ?  Do you seek a virgin FSU W ?  ..Or are you hoping to convert some of us to your viewpoint ?

I originally joined this forum when I was planning a trip to Ukraine that involved attending a business conference, and also meeting a girl while there.  I still real the forum from time to time to learn aspects of Ukrainian culture and beliefs.  While here, I don't have a problem discussing philosophy with others.

No, I do not specifically seek a virgin FSUW, although I would believe such a lady to have the potential to be a very loyal wife.  To be honest, I don't specifically seek a FSUW.  There is a part of me that would like to have a loving marriage, but I don't specifically search for  FSUW.  I still occasionally go out with local women.

I do not believe I will convert you to my viewpoint, as we speak a different philosophical language.  You have a liberal mentality.  Liberals do not consider consequences and punishments to be very important, and instead place importance on the experience.

I don't believe it would be a bad thing if I inspired other people to be better people and to think twice about honoring their word and doing the things they promise to do. (and not do)

Quote
So when I am faced with a FSW who just demands what do you suggest I do? Since they pretty much all seem to do this.

Trench, you have to look at each demand individually.  You are looking for a one size fits all approach, and it won't happen.  If the girl demands you buy her a pack of cigarettes while on a date, you buy her a pack of smokes. (She is testing you to see if you can support her.)  If she demands you take her shopping, or take her on exotic vacations on a whim, you say no. (She is again testing you to see if you are responsible with your money.)

Every demand a girl makes is a test.  When you have passed their tests, they stop making as many demands.

Quote
He is a typical highly functioning autistic - he is simply handicapped in all areas of human interaction. What seems natural to you - is out of his reach. He simply cannot put himself in other person’s shoes so to speak.

Pitbull, I thought you were supposed to be the smart one around here?

I highly doubt Trench is autistic, although he has parallels to autistic behavior.  Autism refers to emotional disregulation.  While this normally manifests as being very socially awkward, just because someone is socially awkward does not mean they are autistic.

Trench tries to systematize everything.  I suspect that he is an INTJ type personality, which systematize everything.  (and is not uncommon for it to be misdiagnosed as autism spectrum disorder)  They also are often clueless at pursuing relationships. 
Trench also is high in psychological trait Neuroticism.  People living in poverty and the bottom rungs of society are higher in Neuroticism. 
Trench is also higher in trait Conscientiousness (orderliness).  While this usually manifests as someone having a high work ethic, his bitterness and resentment at the tax structure causes him to work minimal hours to keep his income down.  A Conscientious person being unemployed or underemployed has about the same effect of being depressed, and also causes higher Neuroticism.
One of the drawbacks of being high in Conscientiousness is that people are also higher in disgust sensitivity.  Trench is very disgusted by fat women, and disgusted by the 'dumpsk' towns the Ukrainian girls live in.

Quote
One good thing is that he is not resentful to the point of getting aggressive like some.

Are you blind or willfully ignorant?  Violence and aggression can take many forms. 

Do you know what Battered Woman Syndrome is?  Trench has talked a little bit about his mother and his parent's relationship.  His mother was very introverted and socially awkward, and he blames her for making him introverted and socially awkward.  His father tried to 'educate' his mother (Trench's words) about how to be more sociable and how to act in public, and how frustrated his father got with his mother.

His mom has many symptoms of having Battered Woman Syndrome, where she was so emotionally abused that she had no resistance to fight back, and ended up being a passive creature.  (It's very possible that his mother was raised in an abusive environment and didn't know life could be different.)  If you criticize someone, and try to force them to act in a way that goes against their personality, you only increase their stress.  They will end up walking on eggshells around you, not knowing how to change the essential characteristics of their personality (you can't) but at the same time trying to make the other person happy.  You end up with someone whose spirit is crushed and destroyed.

Trench has many of the hallmarks of someone who was never loved by their mother.  It's quite possible that she was too stressed out and overwhelmed by his father to be able to be able to be empathetic and loving towards Trench.

Whether he realizes it or not, Trench is looking for a woman who will be as passive and submissive as a woman with Battered Woman Syndrome.  He wants someone he can control, who will never fight back or have the strength to leave him.  he has made it clear that he wants a woman who will get pregnant immediately, so that it will be more difficult to leave him.  He wants to live in poverty, with low income.

He is very condescending towards women.  His 2 for a penny comment says it all.  To him, women have no value.  He just wants a 'hottie' (so he can show her off as a status symbol to everyone around him).

Trench may never be physically abusive, but he has made his contempt for women clear, and made it clear that he wants a wife he can control and will be passive and submissive.  He won't have a problem being emotionally abusive to achieve the ends he wants.  (If a man has contempt for women, and is emotionally abusive, physical abuse usually accompanies it sooner or later.  When the verbal and emotional abuse stops achieving the behavior the abuser wants, they escalate to physical abuse.)

Quote
The fact that you cannot see this glaringly obvious fact from his writings certainly speaks to you also being on the spectrum granted not as severely affected.

Or is it that krimster also subscribes to wanting a wife (and daughters) that has Battered Woman Syndrome?  He keeps them walking on eggshells around him, always 'waiting for the shoe to drop.' (American idiom, sense of impending doom.) And he does it intentionally.  Just blow up on them from time to time, just to keep them terrorized and complaint.  This is a form of emotional abuse.

I don't think krimster has autism spectrum disorder.  A bitter, resentful INTP would be my guess. (INTJ possible, but less likely.)

Quote
What does 'there turtle' mean?

ML, it is a misuse of the word 'their.'

A mother and father bird have adopted a turtle as a child.  The turtle tries to climb out on a tree limb to be with it's bird parents.  The turtle falls back to the ground over and over each time it tries.  Eventually the father bird asks the mother if they should tell the turtle that it is a turtle and not capable of doing bird things.

The moral and analogy of the story is that sometimes people's skills and abilities are so different that it is like they are a different species, and simply can't do the things they wish to do.

Supposedly Einstein said, "Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid."

Quote
No, it would be more like Hitler saying "Jews must be eradicated." and me responding "You must change your views on Jews."  It would be almost impossible.  Such views are so deeply ingrained, they are exceptionally difficult to change.

Boethius, why did Hitler want the Jews eradicated?  Hitler had high psychological trait Conscientiousness, and viewed Jews as dirty, disease-ridden parasites of society.  (This was actually part of Nazi propaganda films.)
Trying to change his views on Jews would be comparable to trying to make someone less disgusted by disgusting things.

(On a side note, it is possible to reduce the disgust sensitivity of women...when they are sexually aroused.  Things they would normally find disgusting and repulsive, do not bother them to the same degree when they are turned on...for which unattractive, physically flawed guys are forever grateful when they take their clothes off in front of a lady.) 

Quote
it's why I have a large house
one wing of the house is "mine" and where I have my workshop
and the second floor belongs to the kids
with a lot of space we can retreat to our own territory if need be
over time, you learn NOT to press each other's buttons
so most of the time life is peaceful
however, if there ARE tensions

Krimster, that's known as Avoidant Attachment style, which doesn't lead to happy, emotionally fulfilling relationships.

Quote
Russians aren't very good at expressing emotions in a calm way
or at communicating
so you have to learn how to interact in a way that doesn't ESCALATE tensions
and I'm pretty good at being able to communicate calmly

Or is it that people from poverty backgrounds (with higher levels of trait Neuroticism) like FSUW, have a more difficult time with conflict resolution? (which can be hard enough for people even if they have lower Neuroticism.)

Quote
Now why I wouldn't condone brutality towards women, would you say a light gentle smack on the lady's bum from time to time might be the sort of stick sometimes needed Krimster?

Now what was I saying about abusers escalating to physical violence when the emotional abuse wasn't having the desired effect on controlling behavior?

Pitbull, still think he isn't aggressive?  He's already seeking social acceptance and validation for physical punishment of a lady...

Quote
I would never ever, ever, use violence within my family, not even that
but INTIMIDATION? absolutely!
I think because I am normally soft spoken and easy going
that when I do get outwardly angry due to something that someone in my family does
they find this display of anger intimidating
so I am able to make "an act" of being "the big angry man"
and THIS WORKS!!!
Russian women are naturally intimidated by the big angry man
this is all I have to do!
my kids kind of know I'm acting, but my wife hasn't figured this out yet, even after 19 yr!!!

And this folks, is known as emotional abuse...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2018, 03:15:01 PM
"the smack on the bum"?

No!  maybe "pat on the bum" but that's for play

I would never ever, ever, use violence within my family, not even that
but INTIMIDATION? absolutely!
I think because I am normally soft spoken and easy going
that when I do get outwardly angry due to something that someone in my family does
they find this display of anger intimidating
so I am able to make "an act" of being "the big angry man"
and THIS WORKS!!!
Russian women are naturally intimidated by the big angry man
this is all I have to do!
my kids kind of know I'm acting, but my wife hasn't figured this out yet, even after 19 yr!!!
if my kids cross me, I cut them off financially for a week or two
ohhh the tears this causes....

Not all RW are intimidated by an angry man. It never intimidated my MIL. If my FIL had been the type to hit her, she would have hit him back.

Now assuming Trench is not a troll (I am 50/50 on that), do you find this question one someone with normal thinking and maturity would ask? 

I can’t think of one other poster to whom I have ever suggested “This is not for you.”
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 05, 2018, 04:48:18 PM
haha thank you beefarmer for your armchair analysis
however, MULTIPLE DOCTORS over a period of several decades have given me a diagnosis of mild autism...

when I was younger I went to a therapist to learn “adaptive social behavior"
and the techniques I learned have been helpful...
I’m completely OK with “being on the spectrum”, I don’t find it maladaptive at all, especially in my profession (I’m an electrical engineer who designs semiconductor “chips”)

“And this folks, is known as emotional abuse...”

really?    my faux anger is always done in self-defense, it’s a response to some major transgression from someone, usually in a situation not conducive to rational discourse
and is over with in 60 seconds

no one “tip-toes” around me, my faux anger has happens rarely

I actually learned how to do this as a child, a lot of people on the spectrum use this tactic, out of all the options available, I think it’s the most effective, autistic people get bullied A LOT, and need a defense, this was a big problem for me when I first went to school, getting picked on for being different, and social passivity was viewed as a weakness which encouraged bullying

“Not all RW are intimidated by an angry man. It never intimidated my MIL. If my FIL had been the type to hit her, she would have hit him back.”

yeah, that’s the thing about the complexity of the human animal
for every “rule” there are always exceptions

despite being 6‘4“ tall and weighing 200 pounds, I’ve actually been on the receiving end of domestic violence!  I once dated a full blooded Sicilian with a savage temper, we got into an argument over me not wanting to buy $1,000 worth of designer dishes (back in 80‘s, so more like $3,000 now), she tried to hit me, but couldn’t, I was an amateur boxer in the army and in college, no way she could land a punch on me, so she took one of our old dishes and hurled it at my head like a frisbee, if I hadn’t ducked it would’ve sliced my head off. an hour later, I had my stuff packed in the car and was headed out, when I looked back she was standing in the doorway with her mouth hanging open and that’s the last time I ever saw her!

“Now assuming Trench is not a troll (I am 50/50 on that), do you find this question one someone with normal thinking and maturity would ask?  “

I think it’s TOO easy to jump to conclusions, I think his comment was more a “wisecrack” than anything else.

I think Trench doesn’t filter his comments like most do, and that makes him more genuine in my view



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 05, 2018, 04:59:10 PM
yeah, that’s the thing about the complexity of the human animalfor every “rule” there are always
I reject your “rule” in its entirety. I can think of too many examples, off the top of my head, for this to be an exception.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 05, 2018, 05:10:21 PM
well of course, very few things are universal, perhaps I chose "rule" as the wrong word, but in my "dealings" with Russians, both in a personal and business context
there are times when you have to "push back"
in all the situations where I've pushed back, they've backed down....every single time
so for me this works!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on August 05, 2018, 06:25:31 PM
Quote
“And this folks, is known as emotional abuse...”

really?    my faux anger is always done in self-defense, it’s a response to some major transgression from someone, usually in a situation not conducive to rational discourse
and is over with in 60 seconds

I would never ever, ever, use violence within my family, not even that
but INTIMIDATION? absolutely!

when I do get outwardly angry due to something that someone in my family does
they find this display of anger intimidating
so I am able to make "an act" of being "the big angry man"
and THIS WORKS!!!
Russian women are naturally intimidated by the big angry man
this is all I have to do!

Anger and intimidation directed at your family members over some perceived transgression is known as emotional abuse.

Quote
no one “tip-toes” around me, my faux anger has happens rarely

with a lot of space we can retreat to our own territory if need be
over time, you learn NOT to press each other's buttons
so most of the time life is peaceful

When people are retreating to their own territory (the fact that your house is divided into 'territories' speaks volumes) they are tip-toeing around you.  When people are altering their behavior for fear that you may blow up, they are walking on eggshells around you.

A person who loves and respects their wife and children is not going to use anger and intimidation on them.  When a person acts that way, it means they don't love them.

You are blind if you fail to see this. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 05, 2018, 06:40:43 PM
bee farmer, you should stick to apiculture
because you could not be MORE WRONG about my life, but if you think you know more than me about my own life, then that says a lot about you
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 05, 2018, 07:37:22 PM
beefarmer, you seem to be a rather judgmental person, so I’m gonna take a guess and say you’re “a believer”, let’s see I don’t think you’re a Baptist, so I’m gonna guess Methodist? close?

now I’m sure you think “the good book” tells a person all they need to know in order to live a happy fulfilling life

and good for you!

I, on the other hand think religion and mythology are the same
so in my view your guidebook is pure fiction
to me your comments are the equivalent of someone saying that the lifestyle I’ve chosen is wrong because it contradicts their favorite comic book

so what of your practical experience, other than bees?

I see you’re not married, no children
VERY little sexual experience
and only one failed trip to Ukraine

so OF COURSE with an expert level background such as that
you are absolutely qualified to judge a guy who:

1. has been married 19 years to a Russian woman
2. who has raised two teenage daughters with her
3. who has “lived” in Ukraine for several years and operated businesses there
4. who has had dozens of sexual partners

do you see why I’m laughing at you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 05, 2018, 07:58:45 PM
Not at all, it's a serious question.

Then your ideas of relationships are quite out of touch with what most women, and most men aspire to.


I'll not try to change your mindset, I'll simply try to give you pause and something to imagine as a possibility.

What if you met someone you truly admired. Not just as an equal, as someone you yourself would aspire to be?

She was smarter than you,  both in common sense,life, and education.
She was polite,  kind, caring of others with a lot of empathy and consideration for everyone.
She was well rounded and had a lot of various interests, skills, and hobbies, could converse on many subjects and just a sweet genuine person that people like and gravitated to socially.Had great skills sets professionally and reasonably successful.
   Also very good at resolving any issues in relationships, by being open,honest and willing to see your side if the issue and talk through things if needed.


Since it is indeed a possibility such a woman exists,  and it is actually possible that she might even fall in love with you, were does that leave your question?

 Where,if you are unwilling to change and recognize she's quite a bit the better person in this theoretical relationship exercise ,does that leave her ,since she is  loving a man, who doesnt consider her an equal.
Would you feel she made the right choice in hooking her wagon in life to a man that did not consider her completely equal?Who doesnt truly respect her as a person or recognize she's more mature and his true *better* half?

Perhaps your bum is the one shed need to paddle, when you have those odd thoughts, as it might finally straighten your attitude a bit, or would that be too demeaning for you?


I'm not joking, these are serious questions as well.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on August 05, 2018, 08:28:08 PM
Quote
because you could not be MORE WRONG about my life, but if you think you know more than me about my own life, then that says a lot about you

I haven't suggested that I know more about your life than you.

I'm simply pointing out that when people hand you a rope, you're more than willing to hang yourself with it.

Quote
let’s see I don’t think you’re a Baptist, so I’m gonna guess Methodist? close?

I attended a wedding and/or reception at a Methodist Church years ago.  I donated a couple nut trees once to a different Methodist Church.  Those are the only involvement with the Methodist Church that I recall.

I have not attended church services as an adult, with the exception of going to special presentations a few times over the years with friends.

Quote
now I’m sure you think “the good book” tells a person all they need to know in order to live a happy fulfilling life


Most religions tell people how to live a good life.

Quote
I, on the other hand think religion and mythology are the same

And many of the old myths are repeated in religious stories.

And who knows, perhaps someday they will find evidence of ancient cultures at the bottom of the Black Sea, and the flooding of the Black Sea will corroborate the great flood story found in many religions and myths.

Quote
to me your comments are the equivalent of someone saying that the lifestyle I’ve chosen is wrong because it contradicts their favorite comic book

If someone needs a book to determine morality, then they have no morality.  Even rats playing have moral codes, and they don't need a book.

I'm saying that the lifestyle you advocate conflicts with the virtues cultures around the world have come up with as being good.

Quote
so what of your practical experience, other than bees?

Just because one does not talk about their experiences, does not mean that experiences do not exist.

Quote
and only one failed trip to Ukraine

Why do you say my trip was a failure?  I consider it largely a success, and I enjoyed the trip.

Quote
1. has been married 19 years to a Russian woman

But what kind of relationship?  What is the quality like?  You may be married on paper, but the interpersonal relations you describe with your wife are what most people would describe as a happy, loving, or fulfilling relationship.  Gee, let's throw temper tantrums to terrorize our family into submission, and occasionally visit prostitutes because the emotional distance between you and your wife is so great she has zero desire in trying to please you in bed.

Quote
2. who has raised two teenage daughters with her

And how well are they psychologically and emotionally adjusted?  How they turn out will be a direct reflection on how well you did as a parent.  Throwing fits to intimidate and scare family members is not a good recipe for emotionally healthy and well adjusted children.

Quote
3. who has “lived” in Ukraine for several years and operated businesses there

And what does that have to do with being a good person, or not emotionally abusing your family members?  Or does owning a business in Ukraine give a guy a free pass to mistreat them?  Is that what you are suggesting?

Quote
4. who has had dozens of sexual partners

And what does that have to do with being a good person or being a good, loving husband?

Treat people the way you want to be treated.  Do not treat others in ways you would not want treated.
Do what you say you are going to do, or not do.
Do not infringe upon the rights of others. (Although there is debate what those rights actually are.)
These tend to be virtues that are well-respected by all cultures around the world.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 05, 2018, 09:03:07 PM
“I haven't suggested that I know more about your life than you.”


so what is making a judgment about me then if not saying that?


“I'm simply pointing out that when people hand you a rope, you're more than willing to hang yourself with it.”


again, your judgment, my neck’s just fine thank you!!

my reference to living in Ukraine and to the quantity of sexual partners I’ve had, is to provide my “bona fides” or my “credentials”
to me, so far as I can tell, you have NONE AT ALL
however, I’m glad your trip to Ukraine was a “success” and you enjoyed the scenery!!!

again, let me say, your judgment of me could NOT be more WRONG!
but with your lack of experience, I don’t see HOW you could EVER interpret my life!
but I’m sure that will not deter you from doing so anyway...
and even though to me, you’re completely WRONG
i’m pretty sure you will always think that you’re RIGHT
cuz that’s how judgmental people function

in the end, I’m the one married with kids, I’m the one who has years of experience with Russian culture, I’m the one who has slept with gorgeous 19 yr olds, who were so gorgeous they melted my eyes!

and you’re the one with the beehives!
so you can just go ahead and criticize and judge me ALL YOU WANT!!
bzzzzzz, bzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 05, 2018, 10:55:49 PM
Well, Trench. The weathers great in Kyiv. The girls are out in droves and short skirts are a plenty.
You should have come with me.  8)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 05, 2018, 11:06:23 PM
Msmob, the Insert Quote function requires deleting half the message to just show the relevant portion, and requires scrolling up and down a zillion times.  It's much easier to have 2 windows open, and copy and paste only the text that I am responding to.

Once again, your opinion diverges from the norm


You have no idea of the reality I have faced, so don't assume you know.

It's annoying when someone does that to you, isn't it .....

The ideals that a person strives towards reflects the kind of world they wish to live in.

There's 'ideals' and life choices that reflect reality ...  and my conscience is TOTALLY clear - even when someone "has no idea of the reality I have faced,"  :welcome:

If you have no guilty conscience about breaking your vows to obtain the end result you want, that simply means that you are a sociopath.

That is not an adjective I believe applicable to my life - and it is amusing to read you suggesting otherwise...

I originally joined this forum when I was planning a trip to Ukraine that involved attending a business conference, and also meeting a girl while there.  I still real the forum from time to time to learn aspects of Ukrainian culture and beliefs.  While here, I don't have a problem discussing philosophy with others.

)))   You clearly haven't re-read your posts - you aren't discussing - you are lecturing and FAILING

No, I do not specifically seek a virgin FSUW, although I would believe such a lady to have the potential to be a very loyal wife.  To be honest, I don't specifically seek a FSUW.  There is a part of me that would like to have a loving marriage, but I don't specifically search for  FSUW.  I still occasionally go out with local women.

Is it just me that finds himself thinking, " I hope my daughter wouldn't bring this pompous ass home as a potential mate ? "

I do not believe I will convert you to my viewpoint

No shit, Sherlock
You have a liberal mentality.  Liberals do not consider consequences and punishments to be very important, and instead place importance on the experience.

)))  I REALLY laugh when someone applies that label - you just joined the really DAFT club...from a, "DUH," you couldn't be more wrong to your 'explanation' .... 

If anything, I find myself having a greater understanding of others, their - often opposing viewpoints -  as I get older and wiser ..... I don't see much 'wiseness' in what you post - certainly lots of bollox conclusions ...

I don't believe it would be a bad thing if I inspired other people to be 'better people' [ inverted commas, moby's ]

I don't think there's too much risk of that ....  I find your posts to be anything but 'inspiring' .... they are as clueless as Trench's - but with a healthy dose of pompous
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 05, 2018, 11:08:01 PM
Well, Trench. The weathers great in Kyiv. The girls are out in droves and short skirts are a plenty.
You should have come with me.  8)

Trench is probably one of those guys wants his 'Missus' to wear short skirts - but only when he can see.

He would become insecure if she was noticed ;)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 05, 2018, 11:38:41 PM
Well, Trench. The weathers great in Kyiv. The girls are out in droves and short skirts are a plenty.
You should have come with me.  8)

I am a fair way  south and have being enjoying some beaches and now spending a few  days in another city that I think is one of  the most suitable to do an actual search,

I have here many times over the years and a definite highlight place at night ( which is free-- the daytime is good to!_) is the extensive promenade along the river that extends many kms.There are dozens of places to go across the entire spectrum from upmarket nightclubs and restaurants,to fair ground attractions  and a lot of choices as to how to spend time.

People are out in large numbers with a multitude of activities -- of note was the open air dancing free for all that gathered a large crowd, and It it is impossible to not notice the girls everywhere.

I am not writing this for the TC's of this world --he is beyond help and would probably get himself arrested or beaten up in his idea of interaction !!

This all goes to one of my personal major points --I do not like the concept of contrived mob 7 day turnaround !!  My view that spending time in the entire environment and "normalising" as much as possible is a far more likely way to "succeed" in the long run.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 05, 2018, 11:54:45 PM
I am a fair way  south and have being enjoying some beaches and now spending a few  days in another city that I think is one of  the most suitable to do an actual search,

DO be sure to post and tell us your 'secret city'  !

If you are still searching - where have you been going 'wrong' before ? ;)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 12:10:11 AM
very well stated msmob!
oichen horrosho!

jay? I'm confused, I thought you had a "significant other"
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 12:17:09 AM
jay, I'm going to guess Nikolaev, and probably north of Zavodsky?
anyone else want to hazard a guess
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 06, 2018, 01:40:33 AM
Trench is probably one of those guys wants his 'Missus' to wear short skirts - but only when he can see.

He would become insecure if she was noticed ;)
Oh, absolutely. He’s terrified that any woman he manages to dupe import  wil dump him for the first bloke who’s richer and a better catch than him.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 01:54:47 AM
beefarmer

i’m sure you’re familiar with the expression, “the map is not the territory”?
the problem that a person faces who has NO ACTUAL EXPERIENCE is a map is all they have.  your world view is based on someone else’s interpretation of the world
and not the actual world itself

in the context of our discussion, I don’t think YOU HAVE ANY IDEA of what married life in general is ACTUALLY like, you’ve never experienced it yourself directly, you have a map of what it’s like, but that map is definitely NOT the actual territory (please don’t count your parents or your sister’s marriage or whatever as experience)
so obviously you CAN’T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE about the state of my marriage either
but that limitation doesn’t stop you in the least bit from making your judgments on this board
on subjects you know NOTHING about (other people’s lives)

you also have no REAL idea of the challenges that Russian culture and behavior can place on a relationship with a western man. 

part of my recent trip was spent at my decaying dacha outside of Sevastopol with my wife’s family.  after a week or so, my wife’s “western facade” slipped a bit, and I watched her go “full slav” with her family, nothing but “screeching” at each other, and this is normal for them
but certainly NOT for me, or the kids...
so when a Russian woman unleashes her inner slav on you cuz she’s in a bad mood, or it’s that time of the month, whatcha gonna do willis? who ya gonna call? ghost busters?
you think you can have a calm conversation with them when they’re in this condition?
is that what you READ?

it’s funny you think that I’m the emotional victimizer!
I take it you’ve never interacted with a Russian woman when she’s in a bad mood
I’m pretty sure that in my case, the reason that my display of faux anger is so DAMNED effective at halting my wife’s slavic outbursts against me or the kids, is because normally I have a very calm demeanor, and she REALLY likes this aspect of her life with me
and she tells me this, and how much she appreciates it, compared to a relationship with a Russian man, but she grew up in this culture, it’s who she is, even though she has changed quite a bit and westernized, the inner slav will slip out once in awhile
much, much better to have a “short, sharp decisive action” then a long drawn out “cold shoulder” or something even worse, and then of course kiss and make up later, ok?

but enough about me, let’s talk about you for a second...
looking through your posts, I see that what you’ve done here seems to be a pattern
judging others based on what I would consider to be an antiquated pseudo-religious morality and then labeling them with some kind of derogatory psycho-babble

you’ve done it so many times, and to so many people on this board
that it actually looks kind of pathological to me and seems to be your purpose for being here
not a judgment, I’m just reading your posts and callin it like it is
do you think this kind of behavior is going to be compatible with a Ukrainian woman?
it looks like the one and only Ukrainian woman you met, didn’t measure up to your judgment,
i’m curious what psychological label you put on her?

I’m afraid this is going to be a really BIG problem for you, one I don’t think you’re going to come to grips with.  to me, this is an even bigger problem than the problems Trench faces
in fact, if I were to make a bet about who would be more likely to find a woman in Ukraine, you or Trench, my bet would be on Trench!!!

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2018, 02:48:02 AM

in fact, if I were to make a bet about who would be more likely to find a woman in Ukraine, you or Trench, my bet would be on Trench!!!

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 03:08:05 AM
part of my recent trip was spent at my decaying dacha outside of Sevastopol with my wife’s family.  after a week or so, my wife’s “western facade” slipped a bit, and I watched her go “full slav” with her family, nothing but “screeching” at each other, and this is normal for them
but certainly NOT for me, or the kids...
so when a Russian woman unleashes her inner slav on you cuz she’s in a bad mood, or it’s that time of the month, whatcha gonna do willis? who ya gonna call? ghost busters?
you think you can have a calm conversation with them when they’re in this condition?
is that what you READ?

it’s funny you think that I’m the emotional victimizer!
I take it you’ve never interacted with a Russian woman when she’s in a bad mood
I’m pretty sure that in my case, the reason that my display of faux anger is so DAMNED effective at halting my wife’s slavic outbursts against me or the kids, is because normally I have a very calm demeanor, and she REALLY likes this aspect of her life with me
and she tells me this, and how much she appreciates it, compared to a relationship with a Russian man, but she grew up in this culture, it’s who she is, even though she has changed quite a bit and westernized, the inner slav will slip out once in awhile

My mother is 100% Slav, and has never had an outburst.  She is the mildest person you could ever meet.  Same with her sister.

My MIL also is not prone to outbursts, she is a very calm person.

I think Slavs tend to be more expressive of their emotions, at least, as a stereoype, but I suspect that your wife's behaviour is just indicative of the type of home she grew up in. 


Neither of our parents spanked us.  Neither of my parents yelled at us, either.  My mother was the primary disciplinarian in the home, and she used much more effective methods of controlling her children.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 06, 2018, 03:35:49 AM

Neither of our parents spanked us.  Neither of my parents yelled at us, either.  My mother was the primary disciplinarian in the home, and she used much more effective methods of controlling her children.

Oh yes, pray tell?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 06, 2018, 03:36:01 AM
My mother is 100% Slav, and has never had an outburst.  She is the mildest person you could ever meet.  Same with her sister.

My MIL also is not prone to outbursts, she is a very calm person.

I think Slavs tend to be more expressive of their emotions, at least, as a stereoype, but I suspect that your wife's behaviour is just indicative of the type of home she grew up in. 


Neither of our parents spanked us.  Neither of my parents yelled at us, either.  My mother was the primary disciplinarian in the home, and she used much more effective methods of controlling her children.
I agree. I don’t think Krims description of Slavic women is accurate. My wife, too, never shouts and is no lover of conflict.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2018, 03:45:59 AM
Sorry, Krimster ... have to concur with JG and Boethius on this one ...

NOT my experience ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 06, 2018, 04:36:33 AM
I agree. I don’t think Krims description of Slavic women is accurate. My wife, too, never shouts and is no lover of conflict.

The women I have met/seen so far in the FSU I think most probably don't shout that much unless the situation is real extreme perhaps. I don't think FSW are generally shouted which is a good thing but I do think their personality tends to lead to conflicts. They tend to take up a position on something then don't budge an inch. Hence why I say they are Arbitrary, pig headed, etc.

Though yes I get ghe impression they don't want/like conflict even though their nature tends to provoke conflict they seem oblivious to this.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2018, 04:38:32 AM
))

Always amusing to read Trench's 'thoughts' about FSU W - when he has SO little experience
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on August 06, 2018, 05:35:51 AM
The women I have met/seen so far in the FSU I think most probably don't shout that much unless the situation is real extreme perhaps. I don't think FSW are generally shouted which is a good thing but I do think their personality tends to lead to conflicts. They tend to take up a position on something then don't budge an inch. Hence why I say they are Arbitrary, pig headed, etc.

Though yes I get ghe impression they don't want/like conflict even though their nature tends to provoke conflict they seem oblivious to this.

Can I ask you a serious question, are you really here to learn more, to get some real insight in to what - dating, relationships, life - with an FSUW is about?

If you are, how come you only adhere to advice given by potheads, sex tourists, child groomers and other questionable personalities. 
Those who acknowledge your already misogynist views, prejudices and preconceptions. Those are the ones you take advice from and salute, but when you get real valuable insight and real advice, you throw it out the window and think you already knows best.

I am really curious why this is, maybe the ones pointing out there is a underlying psychological element to this is right, I don't know, I have no experience with it, but it's becoming quite clear to me anyway, you are only here to validate what you already think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 06, 2018, 06:22:07 AM
The women I have met/seen so far in the FSU I think most probably don't shout that much unless the situation is real extreme perhaps. I don't think FSW are generally shouted which is a good thing but I do think their personality tends to lead to conflicts. They tend to take up a position on something then don't budge an inch. Hence why I say they are Arbitrary, pig headed, etc.

Though yes I get ghe impression they don't want/like conflict even though their nature tends to provoke conflict they seem oblivious to this.
I’m not talking about having a humdinger of a slagging match. Conflict can happen in many ways. The key thing is how you reach a resolution. In the dynamics of a relationship with FSUW, that understanding is crucial.

You don’t seem to grasp this. When you describe them as arbitrary, pig headed, etc, you are describing yourself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 06, 2018, 06:35:30 AM
On a number of occasions I wondered, even writing/asking, about the childhood of Trenchcoat. I have never seen a reply.

While I do not wish to play amateur psychologist there seem to a number of posts of Trenchcoat that point back to a defective childrearing effort. I suspect this is in fact why he is doomed in his quest.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 06, 2018, 07:01:29 AM
On a number of occasions I wondered, even writing/asking, about the childhood of Trenchcoat. I have never seen a reply.

While I do not wish to play amateur psychologist there seem to a number of posts of Trenchcoat that point back to a defective childrearing effort. I suspect this is in fact why he is doomed in his quest.

Trench doesn’t answer any question that points to his inadequacies. He knows he doesn’t really have an answer so avoidance is his safest option.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 07:25:51 AM
"Sorry, Krimster ... have to concur with JG and Boethius on this one ...

NOT my experience ..."



however, IT IS mine!
it's an extension of what BO has already acknowledged, the innate stubbornness, just add a loud voice on top of it, VERY loud!
i'm glad you all have attenuated Russians, mine's hyperbolic...

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 07:37:20 AM
"You don’t seem to grasp this. When you describe them as arbitrary, pig headed, etc, you are describing yourself. "

you are right, I DON'T grasp this, plenty of others have acknowledged this innate stubborness, including BO, so I guess they don't either
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 06, 2018, 07:50:13 AM
"You don’t seem to grasp this. When you describe them as arbitrary, pig headed, etc, you are describing yourself. "

you are right, I DON'T grasp this, plenty of others have acknowledged this innate stubborness, including BO, so I guess they don't either
Are you Trench?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 08:22:25 AM
"Are you Trench? "

NO, I AM SPARTACUS
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 08:24:25 AM
gawsh and gozpedy!

you folks haz painted me to be some kind of mad beast
don’t get TOO close, I might bite ya, grrrrrrowl, ruff, ruff!
wish I recorded my wife interacting with her family in Krim
then you WOULD see what I’m talking about
what’s normal and acceptable for them
that “screeching" voice
would not be acceptable in “my culture” and not just by me personally
over 19 yr my wife has become acclimated to western culture and social norms
and behaves appropriately within that framework, she’s really grown into it
it’s more our kids being at risk and not ME from my wife’s hyperbolic outbursts
with just one notable exception, I haven’t triggered a major outburst from my wife in YEARS
our kids usually do it at least once a month
when possible, my oldest daughter or myself will attempt to de-escalate these outbursts
but sometimes attempting a calm conversation with a Russian woman, when they go “full slav”, as my oldest daughter calls it,  has the opposite effect, and it feels like you just dumped a gallon of “petrol” on the flames. there are times that I felt it necessary to intervene in my wife’s outbursts, and a “short, sharp” response from me is usually all it takes
ok...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 06, 2018, 08:46:19 AM
gawsh and gozpedy!

you folks haz painted me to be some kind of mad beast
don’t get TOO close, I might bite ya, grrrrrrowl, ruff, ruff!
wish I recorded my wife interacting with her family in Krim
then you WOULD see what I’m talking about
what’s normal and acceptable for them
that “screeching" voice
would not be acceptable in “my culture” and not just by me personally
over 19 yr my wife has become acclimated to western culture and social norms
and behaves appropriately within that framework, she’s really grown into it
it’s more our kids being at risk and not ME from my wife’s hyperbolic outbursts
with just one notable exception, I haven’t triggered a major outburst from my wife in YEARS
our kids usually do it at least once a month
when possible, my oldest daughter or myself will attempt to de-escalate these outbursts
but sometimes attempting a calm conversation with a Russian woman, when they go “full slav”, as my oldest daughter calls it,  has the opposite effect, and it feels like you just dumped a gallon of “petrol” on the flames. there are times that I felt it necessary to intervene in my wife’s outbursts, and a “short, sharp” response from me is usually all it takes
ok...

You are portraying an extremely ugly and toxic relationship.

While therapy might aid Trenchcoat you need even more fundamental assistance.

Please seek assistance - your children deserve better than this.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 09:14:57 AM
"You are portraying an extremely ugly and toxic relationship."

so my wife shouting at our kids to go clean their rooms, in what we (meaning children and me) consider to be a loud noxious tone  is "an extremely ugly and toxic relationship"
and so if it goes on for too long, and I decide to intervene by shouting at them "to knock it off" I'm a "mad beast"
if this is your standard in Holland, then i'm totally moving to Holland next year, I didn't know it was THAT great there!!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2018, 09:19:15 AM

if this is your standard in Holland, then i'm totally moving to Holland next year, I didn't know it was THAT great there!!!!

You are as bad as BdHvA... with his 'English' Visa...Where do you go to get a Visa for 'Holland' ? 

 I know where to get one for The Netherlands  - of which Holland is a constituent part ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 09:20:30 AM
oh c'mon now... don't be Jay
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 06, 2018, 09:25:35 AM
Sorry, Krimster ... have to concur with JG and Boethius on this one ...

NOT my experience ...


Same. Neither myself nor any of my slavic girlfriends are violent or get emotional outbursts.


I guess those you can expect if you marry a gopnik from FSU
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 06, 2018, 09:26:04 AM
You are as bad as BdHvA... with his 'English' Visa...Where do you go to get a Visa for 'Holland' ? 

 I know where to get one for The Netherlands  - of which Holland is a constituent part ...
Stop nitpicking Msmob......
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 09:35:12 AM
"Same. Neither myself nor any of my slavic girlfriends are violent or get emotional outbursts."

never said my wife gets violent, she doesn't
if you or your druzya don't have emotional outbursts, especially during your hormonal cycle, I would be stunned
color me skeptical


"I guess those you can expect if you marry a gopnik from FSU"

is this what you tell YOUR husband?
too bad I can't hear his description of your complete and utter lack of emotional outbursts


color me skeptical, like how you lied about how you came to the USA, ok tovarisch?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 06, 2018, 09:36:23 AM
LMAO! Holy circular firing squad party, Batman!

How many pages and threads must it take for the vast majority members of this discussion board to drive their point that they just don't like trenchcoat?

Do you guys do this in your actual lives? Follow a person around you don't like every chance you get just for the sheer chance to let him know you don't like him/something's wrong with him? It's almost like one derogatory post after another trying to outdo the previous...

Pretty darn strange really. I'm no longer sure who is more *unbalance* between TC or his detractors? Take a step back and realize, with all your declaration of all things wrong with the dude, he has single-handedly got (almost) the entire membership wrapped around his fingers. A shock jock if there ever was one.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 06, 2018, 09:40:11 AM

The most amusing thing in this thread for me is reading posts from people who can't catch a woman giving advice to Trench on how to improve himself to catch a woman.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 09:42:46 AM
"every cripple does his dance"
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2018, 09:46:03 AM


How many pages and threads must it take for the vast majority members of this discussion board to drive their point that they just don't like trenchcoat?

Do you guys do this in your actual lives? Follow a person around you don't like every chance you get just for the sheer chance to let him know you don't like him/something's wrong with him? It's almost like one derogatory post after another trying to outdo the previous...

Pretty darn strange really. I'm no longer sure who is more *unbalance* between TC or his detractors? Take a step back and realize, with all your declaration of all things wrong with the dude, he has single-handedly got (almost) the entire membership wrapped around his fingers. A shock jock if there ever was one.

..and yet ...

here you are... offering 'advice' on our collective feelings

Trench's posts NEED to be countered least a new member believes his thoughts are 'gold' ...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 06, 2018, 09:46:54 AM
"Same. Neither myself nor any of my slavic girlfriends are violent or get emotional outbursts."

never said my wife gets violent, she doesn't
if you or your druzya don't have emotional outbursts, especially during your hormonal cycle, I would be stunned
color me skeptical


"I guess those you can expect if you marry a gopnik from FSU"

is this what you tell YOUR husband?
too bad I can't hear his description of your complete and utter lack of emotional outbursts


color me skeptical, like how you lied about how you came to the USA, ok tovarisch?


Nope, your wife exhibits typical FSU gopnik culture, both in your home and with her family. You yourself characterized as such.


I do not think "cycle" is an excuse to be emotionally and verbally abusive to those you love, and use logic and compromise for conflict resolution
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 06, 2018, 10:07:21 AM
..and yet ...

here you are... offering 'advice' on our collective feelings

Advice? It wasn't an 'advice'. It's an observation.

Trench's posts NEED to be countered least a new member believes his thoughts are 'gold' ...

LMAO! I always find this amusing...I often wondered how it is that men who have had multiple divorces would actually believe he's the authority in successful relationships/marriages. How does one 'counter' subjective instances in everyone's life?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 10:15:08 AM
"but I suspect that your wife's behaviour is just indicative of the type of home she grew up in."

yes BO you are correct, it was and still IS horrible
OMG, kids and I are glad to be away from it

but there are LOTS of people in the FSU who grew up in homes like this
and of course in the West as well




"Nope, your wife exhibits typical FSU gopnik culture, both in your home and with her family. You yourself characterized as such."

instead of characterizing her behavior as gopnick
i'm more inclined to go with BO's idea about someone coming from a bad home
my wife grew up in a 2 room shack with no indoor toilette in an agricultural labor village in Crimea
people in this stratum of Soviet society were at the very bottom
father is a VERY angry man with PTSD, life will do that to you in the village
and so was the mother, now deceased
this was the only world my wife knew before I met her
how would you expect someone from this background to behave?
despite having this handicap, my wife is one of the "best" people I have ever met
and I am eternally thankful that I married her and not someone else
even the most beautiful diamond will have some small internal imperfections
but it is still beautiful and cherished



"I do not think "cycle" is an excuse to be emotionally and verbally abusive to those you love, and use logic and compromise for conflict resolution"

totally in agreement with you
but events don't always follow a logical pathway
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2018, 10:16:37 AM
Advice? It wasn't an 'advice'. It's an observation.

My Bad..

LMAO! I always find this amusing...I often wondered how it is that men who have had multiple divorces would actually believe he's the authority in successful relationships/marriages. How does one 'counter' subjective instances in everyone's life?

I nearly have two divorces  under my belt  - and have posted my howlers - someone might learn how NOT to do it. 

Whilst I have the UTMOST respect for those who manage to stay together, I feel more than competent to comment on why Trench cannot keep a relationship for more than a few days...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 06, 2018, 11:31:32 AM
DO be sure to post and tell us your 'secret city'  !

If you are still searching - where have you been going 'wrong' before ? ;)

No --I am not still searching -- but -you never know.
"Wrong"-- I was in a relationship that lasted longer than your marriage fwiw
 ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 06, 2018, 11:32:55 AM
very well stated msmob!
oichen horrosho!

jay? I'm confused, I thought you had a "significant other"

I am not big on current specifics  --but --
I am in relationship that  is now in years ( how time flies!).

The observations I mentioned  were being made with her assistance  !  Just for you K  -- she is a 170cm  52kgs who has a stunning presentation that gets second  looks from near enough every 2nd male for 16 to 60 ----and looks from many girls .

We  have been at various beach  & river resorts and have just  completed our annual popka comparison survey !!!  Going back a few years the "is mine better/smaller/tighter" etc etc . Now -- that is a question even I am not dumb enough  to throw a negative in an answer  -- so I said " I will take photo's and you can judge !!
  My girl is currently doing modern dance classes  with a group of 18-20 yo who think she is about 22 /23  -- which pleases her no end to hear ! ( she has just turned 30 and had a  life crisis over it )!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 06, 2018, 11:40:20 AM
No --I am not still searching -- but -you never know.
"Wrong"-- I was in a relationship that lasted longer than your marriage fwiw


 :( 
Is there a thread for this here?   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 06, 2018, 11:58:56 AM
"but I suspect that your wife's behaviour is just indicative of the type of home she grew up in."

yes BO you are correct, it was and still IS horrible
OMG, kids and I are glad to be away from it

but there are LOTS of people in the FSU who grew up in homes like this
and of course in the West as well




"Nope, your wife exhibits typical FSU gopnik culture, both in your home and with her family. You yourself characterized as such."

instead of characterizing her behavior as gopnick
i'm more inclined to go with BO's idea about someone coming from a bad home
my wife grew up in a 2 room shack with no indoor toilette in an agricultural labor village in Crimea
people in this stratum of Soviet society were at the very bottom
father is a VERY angry man with PTSD, life will do that to you in the village
and so was the mother, now deceased
this was the only world my wife knew before I met her
how would you expect someone from this background to behave?
despite having this handicap, my wife is one of the "best" people I have ever met
and I am eternally thankful that I married her and not someone else
even the most beautiful diamond will have some small internal imperfections
but it is still beautiful and cherished



"I do not think "cycle" is an excuse to be emotionally and verbally abusive to those you love, and use logic and compromise for conflict resolution"

totally in agreement with you
but events don't always follow a logical pathway

I have no problem poking at the k over numerous issues--but --I am sort of with him over many of the comments on his family.
he has given a warts and all type  summary -- and many have sort to take his observational type comments to the extreme negative extension.

I have see pretty much what he has described --  and  I mean from different people. I have also seen the softer side as described by AJ(Jumper)--  and to confuse the issues-- even both ends of the scale in the same person !!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 06, 2018, 12:05:12 PM

 :( 
Is there a thread for this here?

A long time ago -- a guy did a TR that was written 10 years after the event --  that seemed like a good idea to me !

My Ukrainian ex is extremely computer competent/savvy -- and if she read about herself  my thoughts on a public forum -- mmmm.
FWIW --  I still have a very solid relationship with her  and I do not plan to change that.

My preference is for it to stay private -- and it will.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 12:30:21 PM
“I have no problem poking at the k over numerous issues--but --I am sort of with him over many of the comments on his family.”

why thank you Jay, very gracious of you to say this!
and ya know, you’re not a bad chap really...

so was your city Nikolaev? not a bad choice at all IMHO if it is
I visited a factory there, the only one that makes al-you-minium boats in Ukraine
came VERY close to buying one even wired the money to my bank in Ukraine (had to end up buying an apartment instead), and was planning on reselling them in the USA, but had too many “krisha" issues which led to frustration, typical for Ukraine/Russia
but a whole lotta beauties there, and more laid back than Odessa (but I love O-dyessa, moy dadooska was born there and lived in Moldavanka)

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 06, 2018, 12:31:26 PM
No --I am not still searching -- but -you never know.

Designed to mislead ..  methinks our Aussie 'secret squirrel' IS searching, again ..and I don't care, either way ...

You need to be more mindful of what you wrote...



"Wrong"-- I was in a relationship that lasted longer than your marriage fwiw
 ;D

WAS.. hmm - another slip ?

...and how long do you think my marriages have lasted ...? I think you are 'mistaken'

It should be noted that JayH is obfuscating  - as he forgot to tell us where he's located ...

What's the matter JayH?... -frightened Trench might move in on your 'Missus ' ;) ...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 01:21:11 PM
I dunno msmob, when you live in Ukraine/Russia and you're just CONSTANTLY surrounded by the most beautiful women EVER
I just don't think I can find fault with someone in this environment, whose mind may "wander" a bit
it happens....



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 01:23:06 PM
How many pages and threads must it take for the vast majority members of this discussion board to drive their point that they just don't like trenchcoat?

Do you guys do this in your actual lives? Follow a person around you don't like every chance you get just for the sheer chance to let him know you don't like him/something's wrong with him? It's almost like one derogatory post after another trying to outdo the previous...

Pretty darn strange really. I'm no longer sure who is more *unbalance* between TC or his detractors? Take a step back and realize, with all your declaration of all things wrong with the dude, he has single-handedly got (almost) the entire membership wrapped around his fingers. A shock jock if there ever was one.

Does he have the membership wrapped around his finger?  I don't think so.  But the things he posts are so out there, I do think he trolls.

I don't have an issue pointing out his failings.  I have never met anyone IRL who displays that level of misogyny and stupidity, so no on that point. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 06, 2018, 01:32:52 PM
A long time ago -- a guy did a TR that was written 10 years after the event --  that seemed like a good idea to me !

My Ukrainian ex is extremely computer competent/savvy -- and if she read about herself  my thoughts on a public forum -- mmmm.
FWIW --  I still have a very solid relationship with her  and I do not plan to change that.

My preference is for it to stay private -- and it will.


Of which I would have no problem respecting.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 06, 2018, 01:37:47 PM
Does he have the membership wrapped around his finger?  I don't think so.  But the things he posts are so out there, I do think he trolls.

I don't have an issue pointing out his failings.  I have never met anyone IRL who displays that level of misogyny and stupidity, so no on that point.


If so, then why perpetually feed it? At some point, one has to believe you're as much guilty of promoting (perpetuating) what you find objectionable. It's reduced now to just adding fuel to the fire.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 06, 2018, 01:44:58 PM
  I still have a very solid relationship with her  and I do not plan to change that.


Translation: I can't catch another woman so I'll hang on to what's left of this one.

JayH, She's moved on. You should move on. You should be nicer to people on the internet and they won't rub your failings in your face as often.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 01:47:45 PM

If so, then why perpetually feed it? At some point, one has to believe you're as much guilty of promoting (perpetuating) what you find objectionable. It's reduced now to just adding fuel to the fire.


Every misogynistic statement he makes should be challenged.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 06, 2018, 01:54:39 PM

Every misogynistic statement he makes should be challenged.

It's why we are going on 80 pages here and have easily added 10 pages to every other thread Trench posts in. I've said my two cents to Trench a long time ago. Newbies can read and judge for themselves who makes sense and who does not. If they don't "get it" on their own after reading numerous advice, they can't be helped. Those following Trench after every posts gives the impression they are stalkers and have more issues than Trench.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 01:55:57 PM
The last 4 pages of this thread have had little to do with Trench.


If you think posters are following Trench around and it bothers you, put them on ignore. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 06, 2018, 02:04:45 PM
Bothers me? No, why would it? Like I mentioned here before, I'm simply sharing an observation. (sorry, I thought the last post was intended for me)



Every misogynistic statement he makes should be challenged.

It has accomplished what exactly?


Interestingly, I heard a statement the other day when a guy was asked why or how can he forgive a transgression made against him so easily. He said, "It's easier to forgive someone because days after you do, you're no longer preoccupied with it anymore. Rather than hold a grudge or contempt which you'll need to carry with you for every day of your life!"


.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 02:11:58 PM
What does any post on this forum accomplish?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 06, 2018, 02:16:37 PM
The last 4 pages of this thread have had little to do with Trench.


Okay, so only 75 pages of this thread is about Trench. That makes me feel better. Trench should feel better too even though he didn't even start and title this thread. Who did that in his honor? The CLEVER title alone invites dogpiling.

If you think posters are following Trench around and it bothers you, put them on ignore.

I don't put anybody on ignore. This thread has been boring because it's been the same ol' same ol'.  I've probably read less than 6 pages of it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 02:19:14 PM
Yet here you are, telling others how to post, in a thread you don't read.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 06, 2018, 02:24:19 PM
Yet here you are, telling others how to post, in a thread you don't read.

I don't need to read people piling constantly on Trench over and over. When you hear a broken record after a few spins, you know what the rest of the song is going to sound like. Some people enjoy it. Not me. Was it you that started and titled this thread?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 02:26:50 PM
And I post again, yet here you are, telling others what they should and should not post, on a thread you allegedly don't read.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 06, 2018, 02:30:55 PM
And I post again, was it you that started and titled this thread? We can play this game all day. Adding another 10 pages to this thread that's not Trench related will improve it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 02:48:44 PM
“Every misogynistic statement he makes should be challenged.”

zachem?  will it lead to his or someone else’s journey towards a deeper spiritual knowledge?
when it comes to making this journey, you can’t “talk it” you have to “walk it”

BTW, quick follow-up on the Russians not being as bad as I have portrayed...
in 2004, I met a British psychiatrist in Kyiv, who was writing a book about PTSD in Ukrainian society, a delightful woman, whose company and conversation I MUCH enjoyed
she interviewed hundreds of random people for her book, and she told me about half suffered from PTSD! 

to give you an example of this, I once saw a UW kick in a car door because the car drove too close to her because the driver wanted to quickly get into a parking space
I don’t mean a little “soccer ball" kick, I mean snarling, kicking, jumping on the car and trying to open the door to attack the driver!
this happened about 20 feet away from me, I was FREAKED! I never saw anything like it my life!

to me, my wife’s behavior is TOTALLY PTSD related! she’s a victim, not a perpetrator
based on my own observations and the conversation with the psychiatrist, PTSD is WAY more common in Ukraine then someone not familiar with the culture would imagine
I can’t speak towards “Ukraine” but in Crimea, the tension is so thick you “can cut it with a knife"  it’s gotten much worse since I was last there almost 10 yr ago
this constant tension and anxiety destroys people, I really feel “sick inside” about what I saw there recently, and I know the worst is yet to come...

jay if you’re in Odessa or Nikolaev, stay away from all major Ukrainian government buildings, train stations, military posts, etc.  I am QUITE serious, I just don’t know when yet, but with all the iphones I handed out to family members in the military, when I see them being deployed, I will try and give notice on this board, and I can not be more serious!
if you saw what I saw in Crimea, you would know what I'm telling you here is 100% correct, just sayin...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 04:23:25 PM
I would say that British doctor looked at the country through her privileged British paradigm.  She comes from a society with a rule of law, with a strong social safety net.  She comes with the attitudes of her own society, which are not applicable in Ukraine.


For over seven decades, all across the USSR, people were told that being wealthy was a crime, that only exploiters were wealthy.  Then in one fell swoop, that society collapses, and millions are thrown out of work.  Those at the helm, the "elite" of the former USSR's republics, stole and became the new wealthy elite.  Some average factory workers and such could adjust to make a living, but the majority of the population was just eking out a living.  This caused, and causes, huge resentments in their societies.  I would hazard a guess the attack on the vehicle was about the rich/poor discrepancy.  Tens of thousands of Ukrainian girls work in Turkey as prostitutes, there is talk in the press that there won't be gas this winter, so people should install wood burning stoves in their apartments, there is no hot water in regions of central Kyiv, and the elite in Kyiv drive around in Bentleys, Mercedes, and BMWs.  Do you see how that would fuel resentment and an explosive situation?


Russia, to some degree, has recognized this issue, and is dealing with it.  Other republics are not.  This is why there is a huge tension in their societies.  The better half is in Ukraine right now, and says it is like you are living and not living. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 04:49:25 PM
“I would say that British doctor looked at the country through her privileged British paradigm.  She comes from a society with a rule of law, with a strong social safety net.  She comes with the attitudes of her own society, which are not applicable in Ukraine.”




don’t get defensive, she was the most sympathetic person I could imagine, her background was creating treatments for PTSD in cross-cultural contexts, she has also done work with refugees from the middle east, she understands causality more than anyone!
and her purpose was to help, not criticize or judge
i think if you ever met her, you would have appreciated her like I did

life has NEVER been easy in Kyiv, I imagine things are pretty bad there now
if it’s any consolation to the people of kyiv, it’s even much worse in Crimea
I know I will never be back there again....

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 04:53:30 PM
I’m not defensive. I just think she’s looking at the issue through the lens of her own society and its experiences.

For the average person, life was not hard in Kyiv in the 1970’s up to the collapse of the USSR.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 05:15:01 PM
agreed, but the time period of her research was early 2000s
different story then!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 06, 2018, 05:16:28 PM
Yes, but I believe it is the tension I described in the society, not PTSD.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 06, 2018, 10:23:53 PM
“I have no problem poking at the k over numerous issues--but --I am sort of with him over many of the comments on his family.”

why thank you Jay, very gracious of you to say this!
and ya know, you’re not a bad chap really...

so was your city Nikolaev? not a bad choice at all IMHO if it is
I visited a factory there, the only one that makes al-you-minium boats in Ukraine
came VERY close to buying one even wired the money to my bank in Ukraine (had to end up buying an apartment instead), and was planning on reselling them in the USA, but had too many “krisha" issues which led to frustration, typical for Ukraine/Russia
but a whole lotta beauties there, and more laid back than Odessa (but I love O-dyessa, moy dadooska was born there and lived in Moldavanka)


I know Nikolaev  quite well and have a number of friends there ( both men & women!)
My reference was actually to Dnipro -- which I also know quite well. Big enough to have large large numbers of great looking women, and small enough to easily move around at modest cost.
It draws on many smaller towns  and is an education centre.
Of note -- while not Odesa --it is not an impoverished area either !

Much as I cannot be bothered replying to idiotic attempts to provoke -- over the years  I have met a lot of girls and in many cases I have remained friends -- including with now husbands and boyfriends. Some now have   had children( or more children!!) -- the world does move on!
For me --it was never about finding A girl -- it was always about the right girl.
A major difference to many others --I have spent a lot of time in Ukraine and still do.Basically diametrically opposed  to the one week wonder marriage concept!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 06, 2018, 10:37:35 PM
I dunno msmob, when you live in Ukraine/Russia and you're just CONSTANTLY surrounded by the most beautiful women EVER
I just don't think I can find fault with someone in this environment, whose mind may "wander" a bit
it happens....

I am not a "wanderer" once in a relationship !!

At no time do I have a problem getting "chatting" with women ( & men)  -- it seems for whatever reason that is the case. My girl marvels at how I manage to do it -- and even more so when I do not speak the language !  LoL!

Funnily enough -- I think she does exactly the same thing when out and about --  she has that sort of personality.
Mostly -- she is amused when girls react --  and only on rare occasions shown the jealous streak when an exceptionally good looking blonde ignored her presence totally!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 06, 2018, 11:40:36 PM
I think I'm done with UA/RUSS now, this last trip was just......depressing...
I can't shake this feeling that it's given me
I don't want to think about, the images I saw... and things I experienced...and knowledge I have gained...
this has become an unbearable burden
I "see" all the lines coming together, things will likely happen around presidential election time March 31 or sometime thereafter
this is the beginning of the period of great danger for Ukraine
I think Ukraine is ultimately going to return to its Russian prison
all the different paths that Ukraine can take will lead to the same destination
I just don't understand WHY it has to be this way
and WHY it's ALWAYS this way
even if Ukraine puts up a good fight when it's time, there's just no way they can win
I don't know if it's even  worth spending the lives to try


 







 


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2018, 12:25:36 AM
Well thanks for your contributions all :) Boe & Krim it's interesting to hear you both think Ukraine is going downhill even more this year. When I was with the last girl last year the apartment owners we stayed in told me that few people could afford to do much clothes shopping hence why they were not many people buying clothes in them (well apart from me apparently ::) ) So perhaps things have gotten even worse though I hear a lot of Ukrainians are now in Poland etc to work now that the EU/Ukraine tourist travel makes it easier to get across the border for them. Some interesting articles on EM at the moment though, she reckons that Apartment prices in Kiev are rising, perhaps it it mostly foreigners buying though:

http://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/prices-apartments-ukraine/

Anyway, my main reason for this post is to say I will likely not be spending as much time on here in the coming weeks or so. I'm getting back to the search proper today :) and if all goes well I won't have much time to spend on here. I will hopefully be communicating with a fair amount of FSW :D Any remaining time I will devote to upsetting Mobers on the EU Issues thread ;D

Thank all you guys once again for all of your contributions and help you've given me over this past two and a half years so far of this search. I now feel ready and able to make a play at this and your help really has been invaluable, well most of it ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 07, 2018, 12:35:08 AM
Any remaining time I will devote to upsetting Mobers on the EU Issues thread ;D

My pointing out your lack of understanding doesn't 'upset' me - the damage done to UK PLC was done by 'unthinking sheeple' like you... 

Thank goodness, enough of 'em have woken up to their folly...



Thank all you guys once again for all of your contributions and help you've given me over this past two and a half years so far of this search. I now feel ready and able to make a play at this and your help really has been invaluable, well most of it ;)

Sadly, I don't think you'll take ANY of it on board  - but at least newbies might be saved your bollox 'advice' for a while.

Watch out FSU W ... the clueless misogynist on on the prowl, again ..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 07, 2018, 01:23:34 AM
Well thanks for your contributions all :) Boe & Krim it's interesting to hear you both think Ukraine is going downhill even more this year. When I was with the last girl last year the apartment owners we stayed in told me that few people could afford to do much clothes shopping hence why they were not many people buying clothes in them (well apart from me apparently ::) ) So perhaps things have gotten even worse though I hear a lot of Ukrainians are now in Poland etc to work now that the EU/Ukraine tourist travel makes it easier to get across the border for them. Some interesting articles on EM at the moment though, she reckons that Apartment prices in Kiev are rising, perhaps it it mostly foreigners buying though:

http://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/prices-apartments-ukraine/

Anyway, my main reason for this post is to say I will likely not be spending as much time on here in the coming weeks or so. I'm getting back to the search proper today :) and if all goes well I won't have much time to spend on here. I will hopefully be communicating with a fair amount of FSW :D Any remaining time I will devote to upsetting Mobers on the EU Issues thread ;D

Thank all you guys once again for all of your contributions and help you've given me over this past two and a half years so far of this search. I now feel ready and able to make a play at this and your help really has been invaluable, well most of it ;)

Trench-- against my better judgement I am going to give you some advice.

Forget what you have read from the likes of Roosh and the DK of this world.Just discard it.
Listen to those most critical of you -- and what they have said.
AND
your ONLY chance is this --- focus on finding  ONE  girl and  communicating with her -- and once settled on a girl -- forget the rest.
Skype,viber,phone,email etc etc  -- get to know her and let her get to know you.If that takes months --it can take months and months -- so be it.  It may go nowhere -that happens .
If you cannot develop a relationship like this -- it is pointless for you to be on the ground.

Next --even in your post above you again talk negatively of Ukraine --DO NOT KEEP LOOKING AT IT LIKE THAT and open your mind to what is a different world  -- one you have repeatedly shown a complete lack of understanding of.What Bo & k have said are opinions --that I understand but do not agree with --but that is too complicated for you to understand.  If you keep harping on the negative -- you will never "succeed". 

Further  -- stop thinking you and your world is in any  way superior ( I tried to point that out to you previously) and that you will be "saving"anyone .  Stop thinking about "out" there and  crap lives  and every other piece of garbage you have collected .


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 07, 2018, 02:48:41 AM
And here I was thinking all the absolute d ...heads were over at rua ! Wait --you are there too of course ! :cluebat:

Yes, yes..

But I'm not the one in McDs when I could be on the beach ...   

Edited to add:

This was taken an hour after we had an argument ..   

(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/942/42997627905_7400d530ee_c.jpg)

I had thought about 'getting away' for a few seconds then counted to ten, waited for 5 mins and asked if if could talk things through... and we hugged and did just that ...

Seeking others company while you have issues between you is not the smartest advice ..

We ended up having a great evening and a lot of fun messing about in the pool Trench - don't ask - you couldn't possibly imagine


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 03:39:01 AM
trench,

"few people could afford to do much clothes shopping"

I can't say much regarding Odessa, but in Crimea, you should take your statement, and for the word "clothes", substitute "food"
a lot of people I know in Crimea can only eat meat once or twice per week, that's all they can afford.... and these are average people, I hate to think of the condition of the people who fall below this threshold
I mean, when I lived there 10 yr ago, things were "awful"
there would have to be a stunning improvement in current living conditions in order to get back to just being awful
I knew before going there that things had declined based on all my skype contacts
but actually seeing how bad it was shocked me



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 03:41:45 AM
sweet msmob

you "almost" make me want to post some of MY photos
but my wife and children are my "buttons"
and I know if I posted pictures here of them, I'd have to deal with idiots
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 03:51:12 AM
"Anyway, my main reason for this post is to say I will likely not be spending as much time on here in the coming weeks or so. I'm getting back to the search proper today :) and if all goes well I won't have much time to spend on here"

a right proper idea, if there ever was one
good luck to you
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 07, 2018, 04:04:01 AM
I know if I posted pictures here of them, I'd have to deal with idiots

I don't post photos of other family members on here very often ...  They aren't FSU W...

SC has no issues and insisted I posted the photo on FB ...( friends only) ...



In case it isn't clear , I find posting a photo can save lot's of typing ...    and shuts up the idiots
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 05:34:45 AM
words of encouragement...
where you and I differ however, I have a kind of phobia and paranoia about someone hurting my family
when this is triggered even in some innocuous way
I have the same emotional reaction as if someone was standing there with a gun pointed at their head
very unpleasant for me to experience this
and I don't trust the kindness of strangers on this board AT ALL!
however, as a token of my esteem for BO, I have promised her I will post one photo today and see how it goes
logically I know that even if I do get crap from the people on this board
no one will actually be there with a gun
that it's just my perception, and I can over-ride it by thinking about it logically
never the less I'm sure I just gave all the enemies I've made on this board all the ammo they will ever need to shoot me down
so let's see...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on August 07, 2018, 05:53:15 AM
Quote
“I haven't suggested that I know more about your life than you.”


so what is making a judgment about me then if not saying that?

Krimster, it's simply saying that I know enough to make a judgement about one matter.  If I knew more about your life than you, it would mean I would be able to make correct judgements concerning all matters of your life.

Quote
my reference to living in Ukraine and to the quantity of sexual partners I’ve had, is to provide my “bona fides” or my “credentials”

They provide zero 'bona fides' or credentials, as they are completely irrelevant to ones ability to have a healthy, loving relationship.  To be honest, the quantity of sexual partners someone has has actually been shown to be a detriment to their ability to have a healthy, loving relationship.  (It affects their ability to pair bond.)

Quote
    You have no idea of the reality I have faced, so don't assume you know.


It's annoying when someone does that to you, isn't it .....

msmob, I wouldn't say it is annoying.  It's simply a reflection on the lack of character of others, and of yourself.  It's a matter of apples and oranges.

Others try to justify their bad behavior, by saying that I don't know what they have went through.
Then they try to say that I can't understand adversity, when they have no clue what I have experienced.  Their flaw is assuming that anyone who has experienced the adversity they faced, would have handled it the exact same way, (when in fact others have experienced adversity, and handled it quite differently.)

Quote
There's 'ideals' and life choices that reflect reality ...  and my conscience is TOTALLY clear - even when someone "has no idea of the reality I have faced," 

Ghandi said that people should be the change they want to see in the world.
Some people believe that marriage is sacred, and is life long.  They are cautious about who they enter a relationship with.
Some people behave like fools, and rush into bad situations, and then think it is ok to divorce and destroy families just to spare them some of the consequences of the situation of their own choosing.

Quote
    If you have no guilty conscience about breaking your vows to obtain the end result you want, that simply means that you are a sociopath.


That is not an adjective I believe applicable to my life - and it is amusing to read you suggesting otherwise...

One of the traits of being a sociopath is the inability to recognize it in yourself. (lack of conscience)

Quote
Is it just me that finds himself thinking, " I hope my daughter wouldn't bring this pompous ass home as a potential mate ? "

And I am hoping I never go out with your daughter...I want a lifelong, loving relationship, and if your daughter had values like yours, I'm afraid I would be unable to believe that she could ever honor any commitment she made.

Quote
in the context of our discussion, I don’t think YOU HAVE ANY IDEA of what married life in general is ACTUALLY like, you’ve never experienced it yourself directly, you have a map of what it’s like, but that map is definitely NOT the actual territory (please don’t count your parents or your sister’s marriage or whatever as experience)
so obviously you CAN’T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE about the state of my marriage either

Krimster, dating someone is simply a trial run at being married.  Anyone who has ever been involved in a relationship has some real experience of marriage.
I know what you have described of your marriage, and I can say that what you describe does not sound like a loving, committed relationship.  It sounds like it has a lot of abuse in it.

Abusers always get extremely defensive, which is probably why you are responding to vociferously to someone pointing out that using anger and intimidation on your wife and family is emotional abuse.

Quote
you also have no REAL idea of the challenges that Russian culture and behavior can place on a relationship with a western man.

Oh please.  Respect, love, patience, kindness, admiration, tenderness, care, affection, loyalty, fidelity, etc. are universal the world over.  Being western or FSU has nothing to do with someone being virtuous.

Quote
so when a Russian woman unleashes her inner slav on you cuz she’s in a bad mood, or it’s that time of the month, whatcha gonna do willis? who ya gonna call? ghost busters?
you think you can have a calm conversation with them when they’re in this condition?
is that what you READ?

I have been around women who have Borderline Personality Disorder, and women who suffer Rape Trauma Syndrome. I doubt a woman gong 'full slav' (whatever that means) has anything on the rage associated with BPD or RTS.
And if a woman has rage problems, these are going to manifest themselves while dating, and it is up to the guy to learn how to handle her outbursts, or if he needs to look elsewhere.

Quote
I take it you’ve never interacted with a Russian woman when she’s in a bad mood

Why are you so obsessed with it being a 'Russian' woman?  Women are women.  A woman in a bad mood is a woman in a bad mood, regardless where she is from.  The biggest difficulty should be communication, because she will likely resort to speaking in her native tongue so she can express herself easier.

Quote
looking through your posts, I see that what you’ve done here seems to be a pattern
judging others based on what I would consider to be an antiquated pseudo-religious morality and then labeling them with some kind of derogatory psycho-babble

you’ve done it so many times, and to so many people on this board
that it actually looks kind of pathological to me and seems to be your purpose for being here
not a judgment, I’m just reading your posts and callin it like it is

Oh, it's most definitely a judgement, simply by asserting that it is derogatory psychobabble.  You have a negative view of the world, so you think it is derogatory psychobabble.
Perhaps you should try to understand the Big 5 personality traits (Extraversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism, Openness, Conscientiousness) or the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator of personality types.
Recognizing someones personality traits is no more derogatory than saying someone has blonde or brown hair.  It may be psychobabble, but it doesn't mean it is derogatory.
And I think a lot of people would benefit if they had a better understanding of the psychology of human behavior.

Quote
do you think this kind of behavior is going to be compatible with a Ukrainian woman?
it looks like the one and only Ukrainian woman you met, didn’t measure up to your judgment,
i’m curious what psychological label you put on her?

Some women respect a guy who thinks, and tries to understand human behaviors and actions.  It is irrelevant what country she is from.

The girl I met was 25 and 11 years younger than me.  I don't know that I would apply any psychological labels to her, although I suspect she had some issues with alcohol.  I think for her it was more curiosity at meeting a foreigner, rather than being to the point in life where she was sincerely searching for a life partner.

Quote
On a number of occasions I wondered, even writing/asking, about the childhood of Trenchcoat. I have never seen a reply.

While I do not wish to play amateur psychologist there seem to a number of posts of Trenchcoat that point back to a defective childrearing effort. I suspect this is in fact why he is doomed in his quest.

BdHvA, he has made some comments recently about his mother being very introverted and socially awkward.  His father would get very frustrated with his mother, and try to 'educate' her about social interactions.  Trench doesn't want an introverted girl, because he believes it will cause the children to be introverted and socially awkward and make their lives difficult. (He admits he is introverted and socially awkward.)

He has made comments about having a sister.

He has made comments about his mother owning her own house, which implies that his parents are divorced or his father dead.

These are things off the top of my head about his childhood.

Quote
it's an extension of what BO has already acknowledged, the innate stubbornness, just add a loud voice on top of it, VERY loud!

Krinster, stubbornness can be a quality.  If they are stubbornly committed to the same goals you are, what a wonderful thing.

Loud people usually come from loud houses, where they had to be louder than everyone else to get any attention or be heard.

Stubbornness is a trademark of the Scythians.

 
Quote
You are portraying an extremely ugly and toxic relationship.

BdHvA, I'm glad I'm not the only one to recognize this.  Then again he has also said they never argue or fight.

He has also admitted that his wife allows him to visit prostitutes so she doesn't have to satisfy him.

It sounds to me like a relationship that broke down years ago.  They still live in the same home (albeit in separate 'territories') but have little in common with a relationship.  It's more coexistence.

Quote
if you or your druzya don't have emotional outbursts, especially during your hormonal cycle, I would be stunned
color me skeptical

Krimster, it's been my experience that women who have emotional outbursts usually have unresolved trauma issues in their past.  Something triggers them, and they begin to experience emotions from their past, and they project it onto the present situation.

Yes, women can be moodier that time of the month, but outbursts are usually an indicator of a different issue.

Quote
I always find this amusing...I often wondered how it is that men who have had multiple divorces would actually believe he's the authority in successful relationships/marriages.

GQBlues, be careful or they will hate you as much as they hate me for suggesting the same thing.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 05:53:21 AM
sorry for posting this in this thread
I tried other sections, but it didn't work

here's a photo of my oldest, now age 17
this photo was taken in her coloring phase, which thankfully is over with
for some reason I find it very disturbing when someone changes their hair color
and I'm glad it's back to normal

alright haters....

discovered it didn't work, because of file size, so shrink er up
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 06:11:35 AM
"I always find this amusing...I often wondered how it is that men who have had multiple divorces would actually believe he's the authority in successful relationships/marriages."

really, you find it amusing...
failure can sometimes be a better teacher than success, think about it
who do you think would know first that their relationship would have a serious "life threatening issue" you or msmob

i've had one marriage with one woman, I am super fortunate that my marriage has worked out for going on 19 yr
but my depth in this subject is not as deep as someone like msmob
I understand that he has way more experience than me
and I understand that you have none
so go ahead and be amused by the tragedy in other people's lives if it makes you feel superior
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 06:26:08 AM
“Some women respect a guy who thinks, and tries to understand human behaviors and actions”

is that what it is you THINK YOU’RE DOING?  judgmental people don’t approach a subject with an intent to understand it

“Stubbornness is a trademark of the Scythians.”

you think people who live in Crimea are Scythians?
maybe up to about 400 AD, most people who live in Sevastopol, were brought out of the Ural mountain region in the early 1950s by Stalin, only 1% of Sevastopol survived WWII

“Krimster, it's been my experience that women who have emotional outbursts usually have unresolved trauma issues in their past.  Something triggers them, and they begin to experience emotions from their past, and they project it onto the present situation.”

no shit! really!!!

I don’t EVEN WANT to respond to the rest of your “points”, because they just show that you have no idea WTF you’re talking about

you don’t learn about relationships from books, you learn about relationships by having relationships

beefarmer, stick to the bees


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 07, 2018, 06:37:03 AM



no shit! really!!!

I don’t EVEN WANT to respond to the rest of your “points”, because they just show that you have no idea WTF you’re talking about

you don’t learn about relationships from books, you learn about relationships by having relationships

beefarmer, stick to the bees
Agreed !
I would say full of Bull...t!
I doubt he has ANY comprehension about the birds and bees !!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 07:17:08 AM
beefarmer

you shouldn't dump that label of abuse on me or my family
to me that's a serious charge
and is "triggering"
if you think my wife yelling at the kids to go clean their room is child abuse
you could not be MORE WRONG, so please stop it

as I've explained to you the map is not the territory
so just put the map down
the perceptions you think you have about relationships
are based on these maps/books and not the ACTUAL territory
to understand it, you must experience the world directly
BUT as I have pointed out to you, you haven't really done this...
and until you do, your perceptions are pure B.S.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 10:50:23 AM
again sorry for posting here, but had problems getting images up on this site and I promised BO i'd put photos here

this is my youngest
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 11:17:29 AM
"Nearly ruined our 8th anniversary."

haha you so funny
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 07, 2018, 11:18:42 AM
Krimster, not a wise idea to post your children's photos here . . . or anywhere on Internet.

Haven't you read about some of the tragic consequences and events?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 11:30:35 AM
yes, I agree, risky, but more from idiocy then anything else (at least on this board)
I promised Bo
and a promise made
is a promise kept

they already get LOADS of attention, my oldest has received many modeling offers, I told her she'll have to wait until she is 18
so in a year or two if she still pursues this her image might be used to sell cereal or something.... up to her if it's what she wants
sadly they are both quite used to sexual harassment but they can fend it off pretty easily, two tough girls
my oldest is a "protector" she watches over the handicapped kids in school who get bullied, humans....

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 07, 2018, 01:10:47 PM
really, you find it amusing...

Yup.

..failure can sometimes be a better teacher than success, think about it who do you think would know first that their relationship would have a serious "life threatening issue" you or msmob

Good. I have my belief and so do you.

i've had one marriage with one woman, I am super fortunate that my marriage has worked out for going on 19 yr
but my depth in this subject is not as deep as someone like msmob
I understand that he has way more experience than me
and I understand that you have none
so go ahead and be amused by the tragedy in other people's lives if it makes you feel superior

Not that your blessing was ever needed...but I shall remain 'amused' .
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 07, 2018, 01:42:23 PM
Your daughters are pretty, krimster.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 02:04:44 PM
spossiba!  fortunately, they look more like their mother than me!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 07, 2018, 02:57:34 PM
Krimster, not a wise idea to post your children's photos here . . . or anywhere on Internet.

Haven't you read about some of the tragic consequences and events?


Because teens never share their images on a multitude of incredibky more trafficked internet sites.
?


At his children's ages,
This concern seems akin fretting the water quality in the Pepsi your child drinks.

I'm not making light of remote possible consequences,  just pointing out the reality of most teenagers social lives.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 07, 2018, 03:27:41 PM
There is a thread titled "Children" on this board where many posted pictures of their kids.


krimster you might want to move the photos of your daughters there
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 04:40:52 PM
you're right jumper, both my daughters were on national TV a few years back in regards to them raising money to buy school supplies for needy kids in their school (maybe 1 out 4)
my oldest daughter entered and won a local beauty contest this year, and was captain of the girl's basketball team, the local paper would run a picture of her at least once a month (we live in a small town)  and social media, my oldest LIVES on social media...
way, way more exposure from this, than the 20-30 potential viewers here
a "calculated risk" on my part

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 05:12:12 PM
GQ, let me leave you with a thought...

some people have a view that their success is SOLELY the result of their own effort and ability
while that’s certainly a major contributing factor, I think it leaves out an important detail, and that is just pure and simple luck.

it reminds me of the old proverb “for want of a nail” reminding us that seemingly unimportant details can have grave and unforeseen consequences.

I can totally forsee the possibility that if just one little tiny detail had been changed in my 19 yr marriage, and that little detail was for “want of a nail”, that I might be divorced right now!  and that SOME of those details working in our favor were just a matter of luck

so if someone else is just LESS fortunate than me, I’m not going to kick them for it
what would be the point of that, unless doing so made you feel better about your own abilities
and I’m not made that way...

I’ve had PLENTY of “break-ups” with past girlfriends (I know not the same at all as marriage)
but the knowledge I’ve gained from these break-ups has been very helpful in maintaining future relationships

moy dva kopec
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Bee Farmer on August 07, 2018, 07:43:44 PM
beefarmer

you shouldn't dump that label of abuse on me or my family
to me that's a serious charge
and is "triggering"

If you don't like it, then don't use anger and intimidation towards your family members. 

You have only yourself to blame.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 08:01:42 PM
if you think expressing anger, even mildly is abuse - go right ahead and think that....
but again to me, a GUY WHO HAS ACTUALLY RAISED CHILDREN
your perception is, as our British cousins say "absolute bullocks"
good luck in YOUR search BeeFarmer, I really think you're going to need it
and all your meetings with women whether in Ukraine or in Mongolia
will end exactly like your one and only meeting in Ukraine...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 07, 2018, 08:08:05 PM
PitBull,

is there something about my children's pictures that bothers you, I wonder WHAT that could be?  :)

I've already explained the reason why I posted here and apologized for it
I have MAJOR jet lag right now and just don't have the energy to sort out the photo issue i'm having on this site, again sorry...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 08, 2018, 03:31:38 AM
PitBull,

is there something about my children's pictures that bothers you, I wonder WHAT that could be?  :)

I've already explained the reason why I posted here and apologized for it
I have MAJOR jet lag right now and just don't have the energy to sort out the photo issue i'm having on this site, again sorry...
.

Jumpy much?

You seemed frazzled about this whole picture issue so I pointed you towards a thread where most people post post pictures of their kids. Many more posters have kids ya know ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 08, 2018, 07:12:54 AM
i'm " frazzled " by pretty much everything at the moment, will take me a few days to recover from being in Russia
in a world full of starving children, i don't think which section I post 2 small pictures in on rwd will have some material effect on the well being of the universe
in another day everyone will forget about it (my intention), so hopefully it will be of diminishing concern for you Pitbull

BO, my dacha is is about 300 meters away from the Alma river, I have a very nice inflatable raft I brought there years ago, very expensive, made of Kevlar and nearly indestructible
I'm sure it will outlast me!
I was hoping the kids and I would take a little rafting trip down the Alma.
I went down to the Alma to have a look...
Gozpedy!  THERE IS NO ALMA!!!
the river is gone, barely a trickle and a few wet spots is all that remains of the Alma, my wife was in tears

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 08, 2018, 10:43:15 AM
Just noticed this pop up advertisement between postings, perhaps some can use it.

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Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 08, 2018, 11:09:32 AM
GQ, let me leave you with a thought...


Yup. It's what you do.


Me. I shall remain amused.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 08, 2018, 12:44:55 PM
i'm " frazzled " by pretty much everything at the moment, will take me a few days to recover from being in Russia
in a world full of starving children, i don't think which section I post 2 small pictures in on rwd will have some material effect on the well being of the universe
in another day everyone will forget about it (my intention), so hopefully it will be of diminishing concern for you Pitbull




Whatever works for you, I couldn't care less really
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 08, 2018, 03:18:52 PM
if that's true, then maybe you stop complaining about it, if it's not asking too much from you
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 08, 2018, 03:28:05 PM
if that's true, then maybe you stop complaining about it, if it's not asking too much from you

Nobody complained- it was a friendly gesture. Geez you might be on a spectrum indeed
Are you upset that hardly anyone noticed or paid attention? ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2018, 03:32:55 PM
Well, quick update, I'm not having much luck in Belarus. Getting that Match.com feeling :( messages going out but few replies. They look at my profile but then no reply.

So not really sure what is happening there. In Ukraine & Russia I tend to get more response so will try Ukraine again next.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 08, 2018, 03:37:01 PM
not upset about anything on this board BO
but upset? yes, very, very much so...
my wife and I are both feeling a lot of distress about Krim
it was BAD

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 08, 2018, 04:04:00 PM
trench,

maybe it's just math, Ukraine has maybe 4 or 5 times as many people as Belarus
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 08, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Well, quick update, I'm not having much luck in Belarus. Getting that Match.com feeling :( messages going out but few replies. They look at my profile but then no reply.

So not really sure what is happening there. In Ukraine & Russia I tend to get more response so will try Ukraine again next.

What's in your profile as far as describing who you are, and who you are looking for?

Here copy paste this.
I almost(almost) guarantee it will get some responces.

////
I'm an English gentleman, looking for a cat.
No cats have written me, so I thought my luck might be better with a woman.
 I'm looking for a women with a sense of humor, because she will need it.

I'm serious.

////








Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2018, 04:47:10 PM
trench,

maybe it's just math, Ukraine has maybe 4 or 5 times as many people as Belarus

Think that's probably it Krimster if that's the case. Looking on Fdating there seems to be a lot more pages with a lot more girls logged in within a day for Ukraine than for Belarus.

I'm guessing perhaps word has spread that it's now 30 day visa free so more guys looking there or girls knowing the guys are more likely to visit.

I'll give the Ukrainian girls a try tomorrow and see if I get more luck there :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2018, 04:53:36 PM
What's in your profile as far as describing who you are, and who you are looking for?

Here copy paste this.
I almost(almost) guarantee it will get some responces.

////
I'm an English gentleman, looking for a cat.
No cats have written me, so I thought my luck might be better with a woman.
 I'm looking for a women with a sense of humor, because she will need it.

I'm serious.

////

I try to keep my profile informative. All good stuff though I think, some stuff suggested on here from Krimster etc that also fits in with me, serious stuff.

Maybe I'll give what you suggest a try if I get no more luck with Ukrainian girls. I try to avoid funny stuff unless it's something I would naturally come out with as when the girl gets to know me she'll see that I don't usually come out with that sort if stuff. It's kind of what appeals to me about FSW that they are apparently not into clowning around stuff.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: rwd123 on August 08, 2018, 05:32:34 PM
your ONLY chance is this --- focus on finding  ONE  girl and  communicating with her -- and once settled on a girl -- forget the rest.
Skype,viber,phone,email etc etc  -- get to know her and let her get to know you.If that takes months --it can take months and months -- so be it.  It may go nowhere -that happens .
If you cannot develop a relationship like this -- it is pointless for you to be on the ground.
Not sure I agree. One can catch fish with a net or a spear. Both require competence and resources. Nets will catch more fish but you'll be stuck with the occasional boot or tin can.

So guys who suck with girls and have no money are likely to have as much luck fishing for FSUW as they do in their local pond.

On Belarus,

I just spent the weekend in Minsk (now in Kiev), nice city for a getaway for those in Europe. I'd suggest anything more than a few days is likely to get boring. Been chatting to locals in both cities. If anything Belarus girls will be harder to meet than Ukrainians IMO. One person I know in Minsk says locals are very aggressive (men and women), much like what Krimster writes about PTSD. Most people have a hard life. As a foreigner you're not really exposed to this aggression, as at least to me locals were quite friendly.

My impression is people there are less open and trusting of foreigners. There is also a very obvious (and smaller) sex tourism scene complete with ubiqutous Turkish sex tourists (plenty of girls are happy to be bought), as well as the typical sponsor/gold digger relationships. So I think it is foolish to look to Belarus if you cannot attract women in Ukraine, it's not going to be any easier.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 08, 2018, 05:36:13 PM
Tc True. They like serious men....
And that is a liability for me.LOL!



Yet , the same sense of humor that has served me well all my life, works just fine in the FSU.


Just keep in mind, while women there want a man who is serious(about them)
They are women like anywhere in the world.
So they like to be around people who are fun to be around.The first thing many women appreciate is a sense of humor.
Granted in the FSU, it's a certain type they are accustomed to, but trust me Russian men make them laugh and are fun to be with.
That doesnt mean you have to be the life of the party.

It does mean my advise is to loosen up.
Enjoy a date for what it is. Just a date.Nothing more.

Actions prove you are serious.mean what you say, do what you say you will do. Treat someone you hope to care for,like someone you genuinely care for.

Words should remain light,easy going.
If genuine affection begins,there will be
plenty of time for being serious.


Obviously you need to be yourself,
but I'd do my best to keep the stereotypical neurotic English bachelor in the background, not  the forefront. :)
In your profile,in your viber/WhatsApp/skype and text exchanges, and certainly on first dates.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: The Natural on August 08, 2018, 06:02:05 PM
Obviously you need to be yourself,
but I'd do my best to keep the stereotypical neurotic English bachelor in the background, not  the forefront. :)
In your profile,in your viber/WhatsApp/skype and text exchanges, and certainly on first dates.

Yes, I agree, but it would certainly be a positive to shout out AMERICA FIRST, right? Hahahaa
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2018, 06:27:53 PM

On Belarus,

I just spent the weekend in Minsk (now in Kiev), nice city for a getaway for those in Europe. I'd suggest anything more than a few days is likely to get boring. Been chatting to locals in both cities. If anything Belarus girls will be harder to meet than Ukrainians IMO. One person I know in Minsk says locals are very aggressive (men and women), much like what Krimster writes about PTSD. Most people have a hard life. As a foreigner you're not really exposed to this aggression, as at least to me locals were quite friendly.

My impression is people there are less open and trusting of foreigners. There is also a very obvious (and smaller) sex tourism scene complete with ubiqutous Turkish sex tourists (plenty of girls are happy to be bought), as well as the typical sponsor/gold digger relationships. So I think it is foolish to look to Belarus if you cannot attract women in Ukraine, it's not going to be any easier.

I think you are about right here Rwd,  the little correspondence I have had with Belarus girls, well let's say when pressed they tend to bite back. Ukrainian girls I fine a little more sedate if not a bit wack with their personalities on certain stuff. With Ukrainian girls I only tend they give shit back if they are getting some shit or if they are not getting what they want.

It's good to hear your thoughts on Belarusian girls though from some experience there as its a new area for me so I wondered if there was any difference to Ukrainian girls, so good to know.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 08, 2018, 09:42:40 PM
Yes, I agree, but it would certainly be a positive to shout out AMERICA FIRST, right? Hahahaa

Lol! No. Probably not that either.!!!!

Sometimes nationality is a very bad thing lol

Ok , a long story some might find amusing.



A long time ago in  a galaxy far far away (probably where Trenchy is from :)  )

I was a bit younger lol and i once went to meet a ukrainian girl in her home town (not that far from where I lived at the time).
She just gave me an address, said it was a cafe,and that by photos I'd recognize her.
I had asked her out previously and she kind of said not right now, but then emailed me a day later and said  I'll call you next week.
This is before much internet stuff in the FSU and she really DID need to walk thru kilometers of snow to the internet cafe to email me.


We did have two mutual friends,in her city, so this was a bit odd set up for a first meeting, but hey I went along with it because it wasnt all  that weird,and she was extremely good looking and seemingly a  fun personality .I figured she had a full social calendar regardless.so no big deal either way.

Anyway I get there and   she's there on time and beaming. Ok.great!
 We sit down and within the first 3 sentences of exchanges  which were limited to how was your day ,have you seen our mutual friends, etc, she starts telling me how absolutely awful America is,and all Americans are, including me, , how I think ukraine sucks(I did not , nor had I ever said anything even slightly derogatory about it) and went on for 15 minutes about what I thought about people, in fact what I thought  about most everything (in a negative way).

I was initially shocked, then as it went on appalled  as it was quite rude in stance and tone, then since it seemed to not be letting up.,and maybe gaining steam, became  amused.

I finally got a chance to get a word in edgewise, to say that I really dint harbor any of those thoughts, and sorry if she somehow thought I did.I was kind of laughing at this point ,as it was a bit absurd,which likely did not help.


 I was still more than perplexed someone would assume my whole mentality off a nationality,when I did not even live in America at the time,nor in my youth. Nor had she ever asked my how a felt, or what I thought,  about anything at all.
 I dint have anything else to do,and she seemed to.need to vent, and now had me curious at where the angst was originating from... so I tried to side track things just a bit and commented positively  that her command of English was amazing and truly impressive.
 To that I got another round of how I must think noone was intelligent enough to.learn another language etc etc etc.
 Pretty much everyone was staring,though at that  at time,(98?) in a Ukrainian provincial city I doubt many understood more than a couple of words.
At this point I actually had gone to the fully ridiculous amusing part, but just said, that it was nice to meet you , but I obviously wasnt her type as she had pointed out every real or imagined flaw that was possible in me , ,and I needed to go.

 :cluebat:

She called me the next day ,asking why I hadn't called her ,acting surprised, that she really was impressed with me ,and when would we meet again?
 I was polite and just said I dint think we should.

She called our mutual friends  ,said we had a great meeting, she really liked me and to try and set up another encounter.

I told them if that's how she was with someone she liked, then I was quite sure we would not meet again.

Despite being short, and quite negative ,its perhaps one of the most memorable meetings I had during those times lol.





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 08, 2018, 10:59:38 PM
Sorry to do this to  ya   AJ  ---- but --if that  happened in Yalta    I think I ran in to her also !

My kicker  -hey - I am not American  but an Australian !!

I got a "you are all the same" response !!!

Her tirade was unprovoked -- other than by my presence !

Ironically enough -- I get to defend the US often enough when it gets criticised  unfairly by Australians who have never been there -- so sort of a syndrome I am familiar with. :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 08, 2018, 11:20:00 PM
Obviously you need to be yourself,


When Trench first arrived, I told him he needs to change to be more appealing to women. One of the Trench bashers disagreed with me and thought he needed to be himself.

If being yourself isn't attracting the girls, then being yourself isn't going to change the situation. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Years of advice here for Trench or anybody to obtain for free. Contact lots of women and go on lots of dates to improve social skills. Improve hygiene. Change your views on how the world works. Change your attitude. Get a better more respectable job. Many guys here are in their 40s and 50s and are currently holding a simple or part time job? At our ages, we need to be in management positions. Not all women are after big money but almost all women expect their man to be past the point of asking "Would you like fries with your burger?"

There are men here that need to change because the world isn't going to change for them.

Maybe I'll give what you suggest a try if I get no more luck with Ukrainian girls.


You've mentioned the word "luck" a few times lately. it's okay to rely on luck to win the lottery but don't rely on luck to get through life. Getting a girl is a lot easier than winning the lottery. Luck not needed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 08, 2018, 11:29:17 PM



Actions prove you are serious.mean what you say, do what you say you will do. Treat someone you hope to care for,like someone you genuinely care for.


In Trench’s case it means treating any prospective Mrs Trench with suspicion as she is most likely to be out to scam him, take him on shopping sprees, make him a visa mule, fleece him for a holiday.
One wonders how they treat him in return?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2018, 01:23:12 AM
Lol! No. Probably not that either.!!!!

Sometimes nationality is a very bad thing lol

Ok , a long story some might find amusing.



A long time ago in  a galaxy far far away (probably where Trenchy is from :)  )

I was a bit younger lol and i once went to meet a ukrainian girl in her home town (not that far from where I lived at the time).
She just gave me an address, said it was a cafe,and that by photos I'd recognize her.
I had asked her out previously and she kind of said not right now, but then emailed me a day later and said  I'll call you next week.
This is before much internet stuff in the FSU and she really DID need to walk thru kilometers of snow to the internet cafe to email me.


We did have two mutual friends,in her city, so this was a bit odd set up for a first meeting, but hey I went along with it because it wasnt all  that weird,and she was extremely good looking and seemingly a  fun personality .I figured she had a full social calendar regardless.so no big deal either way.

Anyway I get there and   she's there on time and beaming. Ok.great!
 We sit down and within the first 3 sentences of exchanges  which were limited to how was your day ,have you seen our mutual friends, etc, she starts telling me how absolutely awful America is,and all Americans are, including me, , how I think ukraine sucks(I did not , nor had I ever said anything even slightly derogatory about it) and went on for 15 minutes about what I thought about people, in fact what I thought  about most everything (in a negative way).

I was initially shocked, then as it went on appalled  as it was quite rude in stance and tone, then since it seemed to not be letting up.,and maybe gaining steam, became  amused.

I finally got a chance to get a word in edgewise, to say that I really dint harbor any of those thoughts, and sorry if she somehow thought I did.I was kind of laughing at this point ,as it was a bit absurd,which likely did not help.


 I was still more than perplexed someone would assume my whole mentality off a nationality,when I did not even live in America at the time,nor in my youth. Nor had she ever asked my how a felt, or what I thought,  about anything at all.
 I dint have anything else to do,and she seemed to.need to vent, and now had me curious at where the angst was originating from... so I tried to side track things just a bit and commented positively  that her command of English was amazing and truly impressive.
 To that I got another round of how I must think noone was intelligent enough to.learn another language etc etc etc.
 Pretty much everyone was staring,though at that  at time,(98?) in a Ukrainian provincial city I doubt many understood more than a couple of words.
At this point I actually had gone to the fully ridiculous amusing part, but just said, that it was nice to meet you , but I obviously wasnt her type as she had pointed out every real or imagined flaw that was possible in me , ,and I needed to go.

 :cluebat:

She called me the next day ,asking why I hadn't called her ,acting surprised, that she really was impressed with me ,and when would we meet again?
 I was polite and just said I dint think we should.

She called our mutual friends  ,said we had a great meeting, she really liked me and to try and set up another encounter.

I told them if that's how she was with someone she liked, then I was quite sure we would not meet again.

Despite being short, and quite negative ,its perhaps one of the most memorable meetings I had during those times lol.

That's a really good story Jumper I much enjoyed  reading it :) so thank you for sharing.

For me I think it's not only an amusing story but shows the difference in mentality. In the west particularly more so in recent decades we have been conditioned to say the PC type of thing, to aquaintances, friends, work colleagues, family/relatives, strangers even, but most of all in job interviews and in dating. Can you imagine if you said these days in a job interview if you were critical of anything the company did or area they worked in or anything critical at all, lol. I think we all know that job would be being offered.

I've said recently that FSU girls seem to often have a primeval way of thinking. Surfer had a little similar to this story with the girl he met taking issue with he's view on smoking even though she did not smoke, lol. Gaspar too had the illogical situation in the restaurant where the girl was acting in a wastefull manner despite telling him of how poor she was and how frugal they had to be in the winter. I too have had instances of FSW madness where stuff just seems illogical.

I think the main thing to take away from all of this is to not take it to heart or take a lot of notice when the illogical occurs. If it really wreaks the idea if being with the girl then of course no choice. If it is possible to put it side though as just a weird aspect of FSW that once the shock of experiencing it is over and can be aclimatised too then there might still be a goid case for perseverin perhaps.

After all if all the rest is good then it might be worth excepting the odd bit of strangeness. Another explanation could be if the girl is nervous/on edge a bit/out of her normal habit then it may provoke her to act in an illogical way without thinking much.

I think the first time or so this stuff happens it probably throws a lot of guys. Thereafter I guess it may be something to become accustomed to or hope to find a FSW that comes across as more sane, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 09, 2018, 08:14:35 AM
Trench,

my thoughts about what you just described, to me indicate that you might be better off keeping your search in the UK
this is not a criticism of you
just that it might be easier for you in your own culture

it sounds like you live in a small town environment, if so, you need to hit the cities
I found PLENTY of attractive women in the UK, BUT in London and places outside London like Reading
it's easy to get around the UK, I used to take the bus all the time there

I don't have a mental image of what you look like, I'm going to assume that you're at least average looking
I consider myself average in appearance for the UK

but you need to "give yourself an edge" somehow
if it's not going to be money, or the attraction of being a foreigner, you need something else

I'll give you an example, when I was a young fellow attending university, I had a mate, who was very similar in appearance to me (poor chap)
BUT, he was one of the best acoustic guitar players/singers I personally knew
he could go and sit in the campus "quad" with his guitar and play a song, and by the end of the song, there'd be 20 women sitting in a circle around him
i'm not advocating music lessons, but you need SOMETHING
it's also much easier/less expensive for you to travel around in the UK compared to Ukraine
I understand what your perspective is on dating in the UK, but maybe this is just your "area"
to give you an example, in Manhattan, I was "hit on" constantly by everyone
but only rarely in Silicon Valley
and there's a reason for that
Manhattan had the highest female/male ratio in the USA
and Silicon Valley the lowest
so even when I was "hit on" in Silicon Valley, the person doing the hitting was not very appealing to me
and this frustration led me to Kyiv in 1996, where I "scored" big time
look at how mating works for animals
the male has to display bright plumage or perform some "dance ritual" to entice the females
so whatever it is you're doing in this context, is not getting their attention
you need to change this

also, have had many conversations with my oldest daughter about this
she gets hit on by at least 10 guys a day
I asked her why she chose her particular boy friend, who I didn't think (in my generally incorrect view) was the "best looking" or the best car, etc
she said because they were "in the friend zone" first, and it was easier to have a relationship with someone starting from this point
rather than with someone "who just wants to get laid"
i'm not the best person to get advice from about friendship
but it seems to me friendships are based on some kind of shared interests and having a bond of mutual affection
maybe a better strategy for you is to find female FRIENDS first, and then see if you can move on from there
again. no criticism of you, just a thought mate!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 09, 2018, 09:59:26 AM
Quote from: TRENCHCOAT
Another explanation could be if the girl is nervous/on edge a bit/out of her normal habit then it may provoke her to act in an illogical way without thinking much.

See? I knew you had empathy in there!.
That  can serve you well.

My guess back then was that she simply had a really bad day, or truly bad experiences with foriegn men /sex tourist ,or men in general .

It did not excuse her behavior, and I did not see her again,but I did try to understand that it may have been spurned by something much more than I knew about.

It was no big deal to me either way,just an amusing incident, and I had no negative feelings about it, and hoped she met someone more her type, or got thruogh whatever troubles she might be having.


Now, my assumption after knowing the culture slightly more, is that it could have been any number of things,including real  sexual harrassment on the job that very day,or in life, bad experiences in general, sex tourists, nervousness,desperation,  hopelessness.
  Then there is a foreign man ,regardless good or bad intent, using economic disparity to date. I can understand some of the many possibilities of underlying resentment .

My take away was a bit simpler though, it was not typical bahavior when meeting someone new in any culture,any scenario, and the simplest one, she wasnt for me,I wasn't for her. Happens all the time,more often than not!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2018, 10:13:24 AM
Trench,

my thoughts about what you just described, to me indicate that you might be better off keeping your search in the UK
this is not a criticism of you
just that it might be easier for you in your own culture

it sounds like you live in a small town environment, if so, you need to hit the cities
I found PLENTY of attractive women in the UK, BUT in London and places outside London like Reading
it's easy to get around the UK, I used to take the bus all the time there

I don't have a mental image of what you look like, I'm going to assume that you're at least average looking
I consider myself average in appearance for the UK

but you need to "give yourself an edge" somehow
if it's not going to be money, or the attraction of being a foreigner, you need something else

I'll give you an example, when I was a young fellow attending university, I had a mate, who was very similar in appearance to me (poor chap)
BUT, he was one of the best acoustic guitar players/singers I personally knew
he could go and sit in the campus "quad" with his guitar and play a song, and by the end of the song, there'd be 20 women sitting in a circle around him
i'm not advocating music lessons, but you need SOMETHING
it's also much easier/less expensive for you to travel around in the UK compared to Ukraine
I understand what your perspective is on dating in the UK, but maybe this is just your "area"
to give you an example, in Manhattan, I was "hit on" constantly by everyone
but only rarely in Silicon Valley
and there's a reason for that
Manhattan had the highest female/male ratio in the USA
and Silicon Valley the lowest
so even when I was "hit on" in Silicon Valley, the person doing the hitting was not very appealing to me
and this frustration led me to Kyiv in 1996, where I "scored" big time
look at how mating works for animals
the male has to display bright plumage or perform some "dance ritual" to entice the females
so whatever it is you're doing in this context, is not getting their attention
you need to change this

also, have had many conversations with my oldest daughter about this
she gets hit on by at least 10 guys a day
I asked her why she chose her particular boy friend, who I didn't think (in my generally incorrect view) was the "best looking" or the best car, etc
she said because they were "in the friend zone" first, and it was easier to have a relationship with someone starting from this point
rather than with someone "who just wants to get laid"
i'm not the best person to get advice from about friendship
but it seems to me friendships are based on some kind of shared interests and having a bond of mutual affection
maybe a better strategy for you is to find female FRIENDS first, and then see if you can move on from there
again. no criticism of you, just a thought mate!!

I think there is something in this Krimster, the area I live in though not out in the sticks definitely does have a lot less population than London. Probably an older population too. Population size wise it's difference is probably a bit like the distinction you made between Silicon Valley and Manhatten, though with different population figures.

It seems to me a lot like the Tinder situation where you're better off with higher population areas. With my profile I have deleted any photos where it looks like I have money as I fear this may attract materialistic girls. I have gone back slightly in putting up the odd not too obvious travel pic so my profile is not too bland. In doing do though I think like you say it may have taken away the edge.

I would rate myself as at least an average looking guy who I guess a fair amount of girls would not mind hanging around with, be it like you said with the right edge.

As you no doubt know I am no Mr Personality so that is really out off the question. I've never had any musical talent so that would be a no go. I'm fairly intelligent but I'm past the Uni student scene and my interests are fairly generic apart from Architecture but that is probably too specific. I'm generally have a slim/average physical appearance, but have never really ever got into the athletic category - I keep physicallying active and do some manual DIY work but I guess I never really have the time or perhaps genetics to be muscle bound.

I guess I was thinking that I might have a harder time without the look that I might have money in the early stages but get a more genuine girl if I persevere. I know in a lot of cases a girl has a reason to get with a guy other than being attracted to him.

I think I will just have to monitor and adjust what I am doing as I go along. I may have to reintroduce the look of money again to get my foot in the door and just be choosy who I go for and how I deal with her. Once she gets to know me and we get on she probably won't be too fussed.

So I think money is the only edge I can really bring to bear. It's not a total fraud for me as though I pail in comparison to some of the rich dudes on here I think I'm wealthy enough to pull it off.

The friends idea I don't think will work easy at my age, most people anywhere near my age will be hooked up by now so it would be a hard way to it I think. London is not that far from me,  but I would have to internet date or speed date I think to see if it has any go in it. I've kind of got limited time at the moment so I'll just have to do it as and when.

Other than that the allure of the foreign guy does play quite well for me so for the moment I'll keep at what I'm doing. I kind of like Ukrainian girls, despite being a bit out there they have a lot of qualities I like and what play quite well with me I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2018, 10:38:46 AM
See? I knew you had empathy in there!.
That  can serve you well.

My take away was a bit simpler though, it was not typical bahavior when meeting someone new in any culture,any scenario, and the simplest one, she wasnt for me,I wasn't for her. Happens all the time,more often than not!

Thanks Jumper :) Yeah, I think like a lot of people I used to only ever be interested in seeing things from my perspective. I find a lot of FSW have problems seeing things from the guys perspective - I think they see things are as they are and that's it. I used to see little need to concern myself with how others saw things a lot. As I go on though I see how it can be more and more useful, not to do it constantly but when odd situations crop up. It can be quite a powerful tool to see it how others might be feeling the situation. Not always easy though when encountering a new situation like you had at the time as it all seems most at odds.

I think what I have learned from dating FSW that act in a bit if a bizarre manner is to not be too judgemental unless the girl comes across as majorly wacko like Gaspar's first girl. If I now consider small oddities to be down to nervousness, cultural differences or whatever and then ask myself if it's really a big deal and 'is it something I can reasonably live with' then the answer I most likely get in a lot of circumstances is yes it can still be a goer.

When I used to site train staff on site where I used to work a lot would act out of character as they were nervous I believe. Some would act macho and knew it all already, others bizarrely and keep interjecting with all sorts of rubbish, others would give me a blow by blow run down off their entire work history for hours even though I had never remotely asked for it, lol, etc, etc.

So after meeting a few women and discussing it on here and hearing other guys bizarre meetings I am now feeling more confident in dealing with FSW :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 09, 2018, 12:02:39 PM
I don't know how easy it is for you to meet people and form friendships
when I was younger and long before I was married
either at university or working for a big company
I would develop friendships, and some of these friendships were with women!
and looking back, all my amorous relationships, were based on being friends first!
BUT, you have to be in an environment where you interact with a large population of people
where there's a chance you may become friends with some one
it's a "probability" game

I am naturally a shy and very reserved person, my mother was British, it's how I was raised (i'm not a typical LOUD American)
also because of mild autism, my childhood was hellish, my parents put me in a private school, because of all the bullying and ridicule I received in a public school
all of the bullying and ridicule led to low self esteem and fear of rejection on my part
also, as a young adult, when women were "giving me signs" of their interest in me, I was totally oblivious to it until it was something overt, like a kiss
therapy literally saved my life, I learned to control my outward symptoms, and this gave me confidence in myself for the first time in my life
and helped me get over my fear of other people
I really don't know if any of this applies to you or not, I spent a big part of my early life not even knowing it applied to me!

yeah, not easy developing a plan to go to London to do what you were planning on doing in Ukraine
but if you assume (perhaps incorrectly) that you'd have the same chance with a woman in London as with one in Kyiv, and it costs you only 1/4 as much to do an equivalent trip to London
then, for a given travel budget, you will get 4 times "the bang per pound" in London than Kyiv
which would be more likely to land you a hit, 4 trips to London or 1 to Kyiv?

the whole architecture/renovation interest of yours might be a good place to distinguish yourself
this is a VERY popular subject right now
but I wouldn't try and portray yourself as a "handyman"
but to think about architecture and renovation from a visual artistic standpoint
I don't know if you have any talents in this area, but if you do, i'd use it!!
and if you do, EVERY major city in the UK, has the Historical Trust organizations, museums, etc
where you would be welcome and a LOT of these folks are FEMALE!!
I don't know the EXACT path for you to get there, but I'd try to connect the dots I've drawn here
and see if you could come up with some ideas
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2018, 12:57:34 PM
Well, I've got one girl come up now that may be promising from Minsk. We'll have to see. I'm also going to try a couple of things to see if it will boost the response rate.

Well yes there are a lot of histoical associations, National Trust, etc but they tend to have an elderly following. There are of course volunteering stuff where there are some younger people, ladies, but you tend to need to give over a fair bit off time. At my age unless I get myself in the situation where I don't need salaried wage or become unemployed I don't really have that sort of time to spare. Also the volunteers tend to be either at the young, twenty ish age or retirement age, rarely much in between. There may also be conference type of stuff but this too tends to atract the near retirement age folk. Most other stuff like town planing conferences etc tend to attract the older crowd. So it's really not as easy as it's sounds, possibly in the US its different but here its not an easy one.

I get your point with London and cost but I don't think it's going to have much go in it as the FSU. Your going to have a load of career women and they can be a bit snooty. Also I would likely be scrapping the bottom of the barrel - on stuff like Match that will be girls with umpteen mental health  problems and time wasters. If my luck is in and London is kind of better than who knows.

Recently there was an article about a UK guy from London I think, who killed his date on a speed boat stint down the Thames. He basically had to take her to a expensive meal in the Shard before hand followed by the 'exciting' speed boat cruise (that went wrong) to even get her on a date. THAT is the ridiculous extent guys in this country have to go to these days to be worthy of a date, lol.

2tallbill has previously said the FSU is trigger happy territory and compared to the UK I find it works for me. I guess I expect results a bit too quickly and lose confidence too quickly if it doesn't materilise soon enough.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2018, 01:11:03 PM
Here is a link to it, apparently the guy is now in hiding, lol:

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/26/man-guilty-of-killing-date-in-speedboat-crash-on-thames-is-in-hiding

She certainly seemed to get more than she bargained for. He certainly new what attracts the sort of shallow women you get in the UK these days.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 09, 2018, 01:42:52 PM
I am naturally a shy and very reserved person, my mother was British, it's how I was raised (i'm not a typical LOUD American)

According to my spouse, it is the British men who are the most rude and loud.
She and her female friends often encountered such when they were out and about during vacations.

And not even to mention British football fans.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 09, 2018, 02:03:07 PM
perhaps "brash" would have been a better choice of words on my part than loud, sorry...
soccer hooliganism IMHO seems to be a "pack" kind of behavior, which seems different from individual behavior, but might be just my perception
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2018, 02:09:57 PM
To be honest I guess there is a fair amount of competition on these free FSU dating sites. One girl for example has been viewed over 14,000 in about 9 months! Another has been viewed just over 650 times in just under a month!

If you take just a fraction of those views as guys that have sent messages in then they are still going to be busy girls and getting a look in is not going to be easy. So I may not being too bad in just getting a bit of a response. I mean the girl that has been on there less than a month if she has gotten just 100 guys message her out of those 650 then that us a lot of messages on under a month. She messaged back from my standardised letter a standardised response which didn't relate to my letter at all, lol. Though apparently she does not know English well as she said in her letter which was in Russian, I'm not sure if many of these girls are aware of the online translate stuff at all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 09, 2018, 04:40:48 PM
To be honest I guess there is a fair amount of competition on these free FSU dating sites. One girl for example has been viewed over 14,000 in about 9 months! Another has been viewed just over 650 times in just under a month!

If you take just a fraction of those views as guys that have sent messages in then they are still going to be busy girls and getting a look in is not going to be easy. So I may not being too bad in just getting a bit of a response. I mean the girl that has been on there less than a month if she has gotten just 100 guys message her out of those 650 then that us a lot of messages on under a month. She messaged back from my standardised letter a standardised response which didn't relate to my letter at all, lol. Though apparently she does not know English well as she said in her letter which was in Russian, I'm not sure if many of these girls are aware of the online translate stuff at all.

My wife had thousands of letters per week,if not per day.
Still not one foreign man had ever visited her.None.
28 yo,Attractive, single, no past marraiges, no children, reasonably good English skills. Hundreds,  if not thousands, if men had  talked the talk.None had gotten on a plane.
Even if they had ,it simply doesnt matter, those are normal things beyond your control, plus the biggest competition is local men that any attractive women will meet every day.
If she chooses them, she chooses them .

Be the very  best version of yourself ,and never ever sweat the competition.



Yes ,in general they are well aware of online translation services available.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on August 09, 2018, 05:47:52 PM
The girl I'm chatting with had about 1900 views and only 4 of them messaged her. She's in her early 40's and has children. I think that's easiest age group, if you don't want a lot of competition.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2018, 05:56:17 PM
The girl I'm chatting with had about 1900 views and only 4 of them messaged her. She's in her early 40's and has children. I think that's easiest age group, if you don't want a lot of competition.

I'm going for girls 28-34 with no children so I'm guessing they get a lot more messages per views. Doesn't make sense if a lot of guys just view but don't message. Unless they just look at the pics to pleasure themselves, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2018, 06:00:29 PM
My wife had thousands of letters per week,if not per day.
Still not one foreign man had ever visited her.None.
28 yo,Attractive, single, no past marraiges, no children, reasonably good English skills. Hundreds,  if not thousands, if men had  talked the talk.None had gotten on a plane.
Even if they had ,it simply doesnt matter, those are normal things beyond your control, plus the biggest competition is local men that any attractive women will meet every day.
If she chooses them, she chooses them .

Be the very  best version of yourself ,and never ever sweat the competition.



Yes ,in general they are well aware of online translation services available.

Pain to have so many Keyboard Romeos get in the way. Do you think it might help to put some pics up of me in Ukraine so they know I've made the journey. I've not done this up to now as I didn't wish to look like a serial dater/a player. Though now I'm wondering if the odd pic might help separate me from the write but no visit crowd.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 09, 2018, 06:28:07 PM
Do you think it might help to put some pics up of me in Ukraine so they know I've made the journey. I've not done this up to now as I didn't wish to look like a serial dater/a player.


Girls have their opinions on why guys post certain photos. Your chances of looking like a sex tourist goes up. Early in your communications you can mention you been to the FSU.

If girls tolerate how you look, they may engage in communication with you. As they learn more about you and your situation, your chances can either go up or down with them. If a girl gives you attention, it doesn't mean she's a winner and if she isn't, don't promise to visit.

You should have lots of women to choose from at ALL times. Then you have choices and with choices you need to be smart enough to choose the best out of the lot or you'll deal with scraps.

If girls like the one below flock to you, avoid them. She left her husband that is 34 years her senior and is getting engaged to a richer man 14 years her senior before getting divorced. Don't get involved with her..... for more than one night.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5659181/Courtney-Stodden-boyfriend-Chris-Sheng-shop-engagement-ring.html
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on August 09, 2018, 08:39:30 PM
I'm going for girls 28-34 with no children so I'm guessing they get a lot more messages per views. Doesn't make sense if a lot of guys just view but don't message. Unless they just look at the pics to pleasure themselves, lol.

I've probably looked at over 1000 on DM and the same on f dating and only have maybe 100 on my favourites list
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 09, 2018, 09:07:55 PM
I've probably looked at over 1000 on DM and the same on f dating and only have maybe 100 on my favourites list

I hope you don't have Irena or Natasha on your list.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2018, 10:09:10 PM
I've probably looked at over 1000 on DM and the same on f dating and only have maybe 100 on my favourites list

True, some will look through more profiles than others. I generally go by the top profile pic, after viewing her other profile pics on her profile page I then make a determination if I will message her or pass over on her. I generally only message about a quarter to a third of profiles I view at a guess I would say. Even still I reckon they still get a fair bit if mailing a month, particularly the more attractive ones.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: rwd123 on August 10, 2018, 12:48:56 AM
Girls have their opinions on why guys post certain photos. Your chances of looking like a sex tourist goes up. Early in your communications you can mention you been to the FSU.
I disagree. Girls can become curious and interested in you because you have been in her town before. Not every FSU city is a Turkish sex bazar.

You should have lots of women to choose from at ALL times.
This I agree with.  It really isn't difficult to meet girls... if you speak some Russian, have money, good personality, and don't look like a horse's ass. Or Turkish! Sorry but there is no saving some guys, women are not seeking escape and a foreigner to rescue them.

Russia didn't take over Crimea with drones controlled from Moscow. Guys should just pick a country and get on a plane. Even if you have dead end dates you can treat it as a recon mission and get some "combat experience".

I'm not advocating village sex tours or pawning cosmetic kits, but I agree with just about all of Krimster's dating advice. He just nails it IMO.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 10, 2018, 06:20:58 AM
I disagree. Girls can become curious and interested in you because you have been in her town before. Not every FSU city is a Turkish sex bazar.
This I agree with.  It really isn't difficult to meet girls... if you speak some Russian, have money, good personality, and don't look like a horse's ass. Or Turkish! Sorry but there is no saving some guys, women are not seeking escape and a foreigner to rescue them.

Russia didn't take over Crimea with drones controlled from Moscow. Guys should just pick a country and get on a plane. Even if you have dead end dates you can treat it as a recon mission and get some "combat experience".

I'm not advocating village sex tours or pawning cosmetic kits, but I agree with just about all of Krimster's dating advice. He just nails it IMO.

The top piece of advice I am coming to agree with, even girls that live in dumpsk seem happy to live in dumpsk than let the guy use the leverage of living somewhere nice to get them to budge their stubborn little arse in a disagreement.

The bottom piece of advice I agree with too. My original intention was to go live out there this year for a bit, but that has been pushed back to at least next year as I still need to get a independent income steam on tap to give myself an easier time out there.

Visiting on a long stay if a few weeks is not bad but you need to put over a story of why you are in town that doesn't look like you are ringing up a load of girls, you just happened to stray across her profile and it interested you more than any other is what I found.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 10, 2018, 06:33:58 AM
Trench,

after you finish your long term renovation project, have you ever considered moving to another location in the UK that has a bigger population and maybe other advantages as well?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 10, 2018, 06:48:55 AM
The top piece of advice I am coming to agree with, even girls that live in dumpsk seem happy to live in dumpsk than let the guy use the leverage of living somewhere nice to get them to budge their stubborn little arse in a disagreement.
Still trotting out that line, I see. Still think you can buy a woman’s affections with your so called superior lifestyle.
Quote
The bottom piece of advice I agree with too. My original intention was to go live out there this year for a bit, but that has been pushed back to at least next year as I still need to get a independent income steam on tap to give myself an easier time out there.


Couldn’t afford it when you started, still can’t afford it and won’t be able to afford it. Trench, you’re poor. You can’t afford a woman from the FSU. Just accept it, you’ll live a very lonely life in your mums basement or set up shop with one of those awful English girls, if they’ll have you, that is.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 10, 2018, 07:33:30 AM
Visiting on a long stay if a few weeks is not bad but you need to put over a story of why you are in town that doesn't look like you are ringing up a load of girls, you just happened to stray across her profile and it interested you more than any other is what I found.


They know, even if you are living there, why you are living there, and your intentions.  They also know you didn't just "happen" to come across their profiles.  You really are obtuse.


Oh, and you ignored krimster's advice about needing money.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 10, 2018, 07:59:36 AM
I disagree. Girls can become curious and interested in you because you have been in her town before. Not every FSU city is a Turkish sex bazar.


Some girls may be interested and other girls suspicious if a guy posts a photo of once visiting their city or country. Turkish aren't the only sex tourists. While a forum of men looking for marriage may have a 1000 people online, there are sex tourist forums that sometimes number 100,000 online. Most women have experience sex tourists online. There are many more men going to the FSU for sex than for marriage. FSU women know this.

Attracting a woman is just the start. Keeping her is a whole lot harder yet so many men try so hard to initially attract a woman. After attracting a woman to reply to a first message, what's left in the tank to keep her interested?

Some guys posts photos of themselves standing in front of what they own or where they've been. It's not going to increase their chances in catch a sincere woman but it will increase their chances in catching an insincere woman.

A man's biggest sex organ is his brain. If a guy improves himself, he will have more success in everything.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 10, 2018, 08:09:43 AM
rwd123,

as the great American philosopher Clint Eastwood once said, “a man’s just gotta know his limitations”

for me that limitation is understanding a person’s internal emotional state, whatever cues are presented, end up not being detected by me, and I dread making a “faux pax” and upsetting someone

the “makeup kit” thing was a discovery and not an invention
I have traveled globally quite a bit in my life, and I developed the habit of bringing gifts with me whenever I go abroad.  so before a trip to Ukraine, I found myself on the way out of Macy’s after I just bought some clothes for my upcoming trip, and saw this bright colorful display of makeup kits, it was so “aesthetically pleasing” that I bought a bunch to hand out as gifts
when I did give these out to girls, I got one of two reactions, either the more normal, conventional reaction, or a total “happy melt-down” ending in shrieks and even tears, this was a big surprise and totally unexpected by me
and based on what happened with these girls I developed a corollary that essentially said, the girls who had the meltdowns, would absolutely be a VERY willing sexual partner with very little effort on my part, and there would be no guessing necessary, “will she or won’t she”
the makeup kit became a “discriminator” with a simple binary output, “yes or no”
if yes, I moved on to the next step, which was to offer her a much bigger present
if no, I moved on...

now back then, I wasn’t looking for what most of the guys on this board were looking for, including myself at a later time.  I was only looking to have sex and to have fun and NOT have a “relationship”  the terms of my offer were quite clear and quite specific, I could have even stated it in a legal contract (but that’d be unnecessary and ridiculous)
also the meltdown reaction correlated with age and background, girls who were younger and from a poorer background tended to have the meltdown reaction
but, as others have noted, this was “a long time ago”
in my most recent trip, (I returned just a few days ago) I brought with me iphones as presents, having bought a lot from a web site called “groupon”, my daughter switched them to Russian, and I bought a bunch of sim cards and installed them, these phones were “good to go” when presented as gifts. 

however, most of these phones were presents to young men (don’t jump to conclusions, I AM NOT bisexual or gay) these young men are all family member who are on active duty in the military of the Russian Federation.  every day, I use an app called “Track My Iphone” and as a result I am able to track the disposition of Russian military forces in the Western Russian military district, (helpful to know their unit names, which I do) I will know when these boys are “deployed”.  I also gave a few to girls, for an entirely different reason, and they COMPLETELY had the melt-down reaction

as far as the “village thing” goes, there’s an entirely different kind of girl who lives in a village, compared to one who works in an office in Kyiv, I won’t go into all the details, but the “all natural” girl, who works hard digging up the kartoshkie, and has an absolutely stunning figure as a result of low-calorie diet and vigorous physical labor is EXTREMELY appealing to me
and that’s just the physical aspect, they are even more appealing to me in their character and behavior.
however, it’s just about sex and having fun together, we never fell in love with each other
after 2 years of this, and if I told the board how many women I had sex with in Kyiv or Odessa or elsewhere, I don’t think anyone would believe me, I felt “sated” and wanted something more
and that’s when I met my wife
our attitude towards each other is COMPLETELY different, the basis of our relationship is NOT sex and having fun, (though we do plenty of that), but caring for each other and our family
I derive more benefit from the feeling of having this caring comforting relationship, then one that’s merely about sex

I know most people on this board disapprove of my behavior, I’m used to that, but I always follow my own star and I am quite happy be in the place it has led me

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 10, 2018, 09:59:15 AM
Some girls may be interested and other girls suspicious if a guy posts a photo of once visiting their city or country. Turkish aren't the only sex tourists. While a forum of men looking for marriage may have a 1000 people online, there are sex tourist forums that sometimes number 100,000 online. Most women have experience sex tourists online. There are many more men going to the FSU for sex than for marriage. FSU women know this.

Attracting a woman is just the start. Keeping her is a whole lot harder yet so many men try so hard to initially attract a woman. After attracting a woman to reply to a first message, what's left in the tank to keep her interested?

Some guys posts photos of themselves standing in front of what they own or where they've been. It's not going to increase their chances in catch a sincere woman but it will increase their chances in catching an insincere woman.

A man's biggest sex organ is his brain. If a guy improves himself, he will have more success in everything.

Sounds good, but how would this show up to the girl in the man's profile?

I think your right on the posting photos of what I own, hence why I've been careful not to push back to much on that direction. I know most hit girls are looking for well off guys but at the same time like I said if I go too much on that front I could do myself a disservice for a quick early win with an insincere woman which of course down the road could likely turn sour wasting more time & money.

On the other hand I don't want too be unrealistic by being too restrictive on the likihood that the girl will want certain things. Otherwise I am counting myself out with a lot of women I put in for. Whole I'm not after a 9 or 10 model I no doubt think even the 7 & 8 girls will want something other than just the guy himself, moreso perhaps in profile view without knowing the guy first.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: mhr7 on August 10, 2018, 10:11:58 AM
They know, even if you are living there, why you are living there, and your intentions.  They also know you didn't just "happen" to come across their profiles.  You really are obtuse.

I've had a couple of Russian women accuse me of being a rich American whose sole purpose for being in their country was to snag a poor, ignorant Russian girl who would always be grateful that I saved her from a life of endless poverty. My explanations about being there to work completely fell on deaf ears.Very frustrating experience for me as they were absolutely convinced they were right.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 10, 2018, 10:18:50 AM
My explanations about being there to work completely fell on deaf ears.Very frustrating experience for me as they were absolutely convinced they were right.

Yeah, they tend to be that way, lol. On seeing that they were not changing their mind which FSW tend not to do you should have probably agreed with them and saw if any progress could be made on that path, I'm guessing it would have proved interesting if nothing else, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 10, 2018, 10:23:12 AM
Sounds good, but how would this show up to the girl in the man's profile?


If you dress better and are better groomed, you'll look better in photos. If your brain is where it should be, what you write will be attractive to women.

You can't expect all women to like you. As you can see, there are some at this forum that think my view on politics and how the world should work is very wrong. Your goal shouldn't be to get women to like you. Your goal should be to get women to respect you. They won't love you if they don't respect you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 10, 2018, 10:59:29 AM
If you dress better and are better groomed, you'll look better in photos. If your brain is where it should be, what you write will be attractive to women.

You can't expect all women to like you. As you can see, there are some at this forum that think my view on politics and how the world should work is very wrong. Your goal shouldn't be to get women to like you. Your goal should be to get women to respect you. They won't love you if they don't respect you.

Thanks Billy, I think you have a knack of always giving great advice :) Most of my photos I am wearing a decent shirt, etc. Though I guess there could be more I could do on the grooming front.

Edit: Ok correct that, I've looked at some mags like Esquire & GQ and their stuff is beyond weird. I think I may look at some Hollywood male celebs as that is what women tend to look at I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: rwd123 on August 10, 2018, 11:02:48 AM
There are many more men going to the FSU for sex than for marriage. FSU women know this.
And that's why I don't understand why men pursue FSUW when they're not interested in the culture. I prefer it over western culture, just not a fan of political/economic realities that come with it. It's nice to be here when you know you're not stuck here.

After attracting a woman to reply to a first message, what's left in the tank to keep her interested?
That's easy - ask her if she's free tonight for a date. Oh, but that requires getting off your ass and getting on a plane. And having money, charm, humor, confidence, etc. And if you don't, then you end up with two dates in two weeks. So you need to improve yourself before jumping on a plane. But guys pontificate over internet profiles...

I developed the habit of bringing gifts with me whenever I go abroad.
I do exactly the same thing, even if not for dating.

I always follow my own star and I am quite happy be in the place it has led me
Each to their own. I remember what it was like to be young.






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 10, 2018, 11:16:03 AM
"Each to their own. I remember what it was like to be young. "

I used to be so much older
but i'm younger than that now...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 10, 2018, 04:55:47 PM
So essentially I'm competing against a lot of keyboard romeos and sex tourists online ::) Oh and I guess a few guys like me who are looking for a serious relationship.

Well it looks like the Maxim mag is more towards the sort of thing I need. Looking at the celebrities for guys at least they seem to be a little random in the stuff they wear so I think the magazine may help out a bit more. I think I can work on a style that fits in with me overall both more casual and more formal.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 10, 2018, 10:33:46 PM
So essentially I'm competing against a lot of keyboard romeos and sex tourists online ::) Oh and I guess a few guys like me who are looking for a serious relationship.

Sorry you are wrong. You are competing against your self.

Your unwillingness to learn, coupled with unrealistic expectations and lack of social skills make your search challenging.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2018, 01:47:29 AM

They know, even if you are living there, why you are living there, and your intentions.  They also know you didn't just "happen" to come across their profiles.  You really are obtuse.


Oh, and you ignored krimster's advice about needing money.

I have enough money.

So what should I do?

Even just contacting these girls I worry that they automatically write me off as a sex tourist.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 11, 2018, 02:04:26 AM
Thanks Billy, I think you have a knack of always giving great advice :)

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on August 11, 2018, 08:39:28 AM
If you dress better and are better groomed, you'll look better in photos. If your brain is where it should be, what you write will be attractive to women.

You can't expect all women to like you. As you can see, there are some at this forum that think my view on politics and how the world should work is very wrong. Your goal shouldn't be to get women to like you. Your goal should be to get women to respect you. They won't love you if they don't respect you.


It's easy to say that he needs to change and improve himself to attract women. That sort of change does not come easily; if a man wants to improve a multitude of aspects of his life, even his appearance, there needs to be a desire to break out of his comfort zone.


How do you suggest that a man who works 'part time' gets to middle management? It doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't happen without devising, implementing and being determined and disciplined enough to see through a very specific plan. Nothing does. There needs to be a plan of what a person wants to achieve, but more importantly the precise steps they'd need to get there.


I'm sorry to sound harsh, but Trench berates British women because none will choose to date him. I don't know if that is because of appearance, wealth, or personality. He could not get a date in Lviv, which is ludicrous.


There is no point suggesting he should move to a different part of the UK. What do you expect will be different? That there will be women beating down his door for a date? Putting it mildly, he is looking abroad because he wants to trade up. Being quite honest, he cannot get a date in the UK so is looking elsewhere for a solution, but is merely papering over the cracks.


I have said it before, he should try SE Asia because of his personality type. Worst case he will get laid, best case he could find a suitable and compatible life partner. He will be unlikely to find it in UK, and find it almost impossible to find in FSU.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 11, 2018, 10:36:46 AM
I have enough money.

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Your idea of enough money probably means a diet of beans on toast.
Quote

So what should I do?
Quit now
Quote

Even just contacting these girls I worry that they automatically write me off as a sex tourist.
With you eyeing up those short skirted FSU women, they’re right on the mark.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2018, 11:20:40 AM
He could not get a date in Lviv, which is ludicrous.

Not true, I got two dates in Lviv and that was after I bungled the process through lack of experience about how to specifically go about it.

I choose to do my part time job because it is expedient to do so at the moment. I am working towards getting stuff better set up. Once I secure an independent income I will get rid of the part time job and have more time on my hands to expand my own set up. From there hopefully onwards and upwards.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on August 11, 2018, 11:39:57 AM
Not true, I got two dates in Lviv and that was after I bungled the process through lack of experience about how to specifically go about it.

I choose to do my part time job because it is expedient to do so at the moment. I am working towards getting stuff better set up. Once I secure an independent income I will get rid of the part time job and have more time on my hands to expand my own set up. From there hopefully onwards and upwards.


Trench, that specific part was not a criticism from me by the way; I am simply pointing out that significant change (career or personality) is not easy easy as flicking a switch as some seem to suggest. Personally, I do not judge people on the work they choose to do or the salary they should be expected to be earning at any given stage of their life. Everyone is different and driven by different things. However, you do need to heed the warning from others on this forum that this venture into FSU dating and marriage is not a cheap or easy one, as you've no doubt experienced.


I won't labour the point - I've dated Ukranian, Colombian and Filipino women. And of course British. Understanding what I think I do of your character, the SE Asian option would certainly be more up your street. I appreciate, however, that by the very nature of us being on this board, that for some the lure (at least physically) of slavic women far outweighs most other options.


Don't misunderstand me, the first 5 or 6 visits I made to Ukraine I continued to make the same mistakes. I knew what they were, I thought I would learn, and still I was an idiot. It was like groundhog day, except the time between each trips and cost involved was more frustrating than for Bill Murray. Slowly the penny has started to drop, but learning the lessons and improving each trip takes real quality, purposeful effort.


I see a new season of 90 Day Fiance (Before the 90 Days) has just started airing in the States. It comes on later in the UK, but you can easily keep up online. It's car crash TV, but it is worth a watch, simply to see what different women around the world can be like in terms of appearance and temperament.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 11, 2018, 11:42:47 AM
Not true, I got two dates in Lviv and that was after I bungled the process through lack of experience about how to specifically go about it.

I choose to do my part time job because it is expedient to do so at the moment. I am working towards getting stuff better set up. Once I secure an independent income I will get rid of the part time job and have more time on my hands to expand my own set up. From there hopefully onwards and upwards.
Yes, Trench, we know. You’ve told us often enough. How long has it been since you first floated this idea of an independent income? Which actually means taking in a lodger or two after you’ve finished your DIY renovation. That’ll really see you raking in the big bucks, not.
Of course, we know the real reason why you don’t work is so you can live below the Income tax threshold and avoid paying your fair share. You don’t mind scrounging off the ‘free NHS’ and claim benefits but not contribute anything to society.
What a pathetic low life w****r you are.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 11, 2018, 12:00:36 PM
It's easy to say that he needs to change and improve himself to attract women. That sort of change does not come easily; if a man wants to improve a multitude of aspects of his life, even his appearance, there needs to be a desire to break out of his comfort zone.


You are correct it all depends on the individual to get out of their comfort zone. Those people have to start somewhere. If their comfort zone is a turn off for others, they will not have much success when it comes to friendships and relationships. The world isn't going to change for them so they need to make changes to be more appealing to the world.

How do you suggest that a man who works 'part time' gets to middle management? It doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't happen without devising, implementing and being determined and disciplined enough to see through a very specific plan. Nothing does. There needs to be a plan of what a person wants to achieve, but more importantly the precise steps they'd need to get there.


A guy has to start somewhere. If he started as a teenager and showed he is motivated, responsible, hard working, reliable and smart, he should easily be in a well paid management position in his 40s. If a guy is in his 40s and still working a job for teenagers or at the bottom of the totem pole with everybody passing him up for the management positions, he can't expect a woman to want to build a family with him.

If Trench made life decisions in his past that prevents him from having success today, he has to face the consequences. He will see his competition get the women he wants and he will live the rest of his life lonely. That is his future unless he makes changes. He may need to make changes at work, change the shape of his body and how he looks, his attitude, or outlook on life. Maybe he needs to change everything. It's up to him to figure out how to make himself appealing to the opposite sex.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on August 11, 2018, 12:08:12 PM
You are correct it all depends on the individual to get out of their comfort zone. Those people have to start somewhere. If their comfort zone is a turn off for others, they will not have much success when it comes to friendships and relationships. The world isn't going to change for them so they need to make changes to be more appealing to the world.

A guy has to start somewhere. If he started as a teenager and showed he is motivated, responsible, hard working, reliable and smart, he should easily be in a well paid management position in his 40s. If a guy is in his 40s and still working a job for teenagers or at the bottom of the totem pole with everybody passing him up for the management positions, he can't expect a woman to want to build a family with him.

If Trench made life decisions in his past that prevents him from having success today, he has to face the consequences. He will see his competition get the women he wants and he will live the rest of his life lonely. That is his future unless he makes changes. He may need to make changes at work, change the shape of his body and how he looks, his attitude, or outlook on life. Maybe he needs to change everything. It's up to him to figure out how to make himself appealing to the opposite sex.


I don't disagree with you at all Billy....there is just a huge difference between the theory and being able to put it into practice. I don't like to criticise anyone, because we can all hide behind a computer and claim to be whatever we want; but if the personality Trench conveys on here is even marginally like his real life persona, I would have serious doubts that he's capable of significant change. I am not a psychologist, but I would hazard a guess that an introverted, awkward personality-type takes some serious effort/professional help to change.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2018, 12:24:28 PM
Yes, Trench, we know. You’ve told us often enough. How long has it been since you first floated this idea of an independent income? Which actually means taking in a lodger or two after you’ve finished your DIY renovation. That’ll really see you raking in the big bucks, not.
Of course, we know the real reason why you don’t work is so you can live below the Income tax threshold and avoid paying your fair share. You don’t mind scrounging off the ‘free NHS’ and claim benefits but not contribute anything to society.
What a pathetic low life w****r you are.

Actually I do pay some income tax and national insurance, got to pay my stamp to make sure I get me state pension after all ;D Think both together probably sets me back around £50 a month so pretty tax expedient. Not forgetting of course that I pay 20 percent VAT on anything I buy, plus I pay council tax with single person relief of -25 percent. So to say I contribute nothing to society is actually not true. It's been over 11 years since I claimed any benefits.

You can either work hard or work clever, I choose to work clever, it's your choice.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 11, 2018, 12:31:42 PM

You can either work hard or work clever, I choose to work clever, it's your choice.

Once again, when Trench thinks he's being 'clever' he proves the opposite.....

Based on what he's posted

1/ he earns WAY beneath the amount needed to import a non EU wife

2/ He's not going to be able to look after himself in retirement

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 11, 2018, 12:42:25 PM
Actually I do pay some income tax and national insurance, got to pay my stamp to make sure I get me state pension after all ;D Think both together probably sets me back around £50 a month so pretty tax expedient. Not forgetting of course that I pay 20 percent VAT on anything I buy, plus I pay council tax with single person relief of -25 percent. So to say I contribute nothing to society is actually not true. It's been over 11 years since I claimed any benefits.

You can either work hard or work clever, I choose to work clever, it's your choice.
So you think paying £50 a month is ‘making a contribution’? Also, VAT is not payable on everything. Most food items are 0% VAT rated. I would imagine food is mostly what your income is spent on. As for C/Tax, that’s payment for your local essential services like  garbage collection etc so again, you’re not contributing anything. That’s payment for services rendered.
No, Trench, you contribute sweet FA. You’re a leech, a parasite and there’s too many like you around who think it’s ok to sponge off the tax payer.
As for all this talk of working clever, utter bollocks. You choose not to work enough and pay your way and that is just so utterly repugnant.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2018, 01:36:03 PM
So you think paying £50 a month is ‘making a contribution’? Also, VAT is not payable on everything. Most food items are 0% VAT rated. I would imagine food is mostly what your income is spent on. As for C/Tax, that’s payment for your local essential services like  garbage collection etc so again, you’re not contributing anything. That’s payment for services rendered.
No, Trench, you contribute sweet FA. You’re a leech, a parasite and there’s too many like you around who think it’s ok to sponge off the tax payer.
As for all this talk of working clever, utter bollocks. You choose not to work enough and pay your way and that is just so utterly repugnant.

I don't just spend my tax on food, even here we are talking about me getting a make over, that's going to cost me a fair few £ on which I pay VAT, new clothes, etc - the more expensive the clothes the more VAT I will pay as it will be 20 percent if a larger sum. Besides I get stuff off Amazon all the time.

Now, I don't put out any garbage for collection I take it around my Mother's as the garbage recycling system is too complicated where I live - so many bins and odd timetables to navigate. When I have Lodgers though this is likely to change they will have to grapple with the system.

I basically don't wish to work and pay a third of what I earn in that day in tax. I would be a mug to be at work and be working just to hand that money over to the government, it would be daylight robbery by them on me. I also don't wish to help fund those that have no intention of working ever such as council estate scrotes and the royal family - they are the biggest scroungers of anyone and lead such a bad example.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2018, 01:42:39 PM
Once again, when Trench thinks he's being 'clever' he proves the opposite.....

Based on what he's posted

1/ he earns WAY beneath the amount needed to import a non EU wife

2/ He's not going to be able to look after himself in retirement

Not true, as said before I can easily temporarily take on more hours as I only work 30 hours a week. I see no need in hammering myself paying a load of tax above this in the meantime.

The state pension is quite a way above unemployment benefit. In addition it may be possible to claim pension credit or its equivalent under UC etc if hard up. In any case in addition I will have Lodgings income to supplement this. So more than enough :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 11, 2018, 02:15:25 PM
I basically don't wish to work and pay a third of what I earn in that day in tax. I would be a mug to be at work and be working just to hand that money over to the government, it would be daylight robbery by them on me. I also don't wish to help fund those that have no intention of working ever such as council estate scrotes and the royal family - they are the biggest scroungers of anyone and lead such a bad example.

Do you like using roads?  Trains?  Buses?  The metro?  Do you like having police?  A court system?  Firefighters?  Hospitals?  Schools?  Universities?  Defence? 

The Royal Family generates more income (estimated at 1.8 billion pounds) than it costs (with all additional sources, such as security included, around 334 pounds).

I hope your business skills are better than is evident in that particular "analysis".
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 11, 2018, 02:36:02 PM

Do you like using roads?  Trains?  Buses?  The metro?  Do you like having police?  A court system?  Firefighters?  Hospitals?  Schools?  Universities?  Defence? 

No.

I don't like to have to travel with the great unwashed unless I really have no other choice. When I do I pay my fare for the cost of it - aside from rail very little of it receives funding from the Gov. I drive a car, I used to pay road tax for road upkeep but for the past six years have bought & used a car that qualifies for free road tax :D

I pay for hospitals through my NI contribution. The rest either through income tax and council tax - best not to pay too much on these, if the Police are too well funded they end up bothering everyone over the tiddler little thing, better they are under manned and too busy with serious crime, I don't want to be contributing funding them to arrest me after all :)

The Royal Family generate no income, figures for their income are from dubious sources such as supposed tourist income they bring in, the Duchy of Cornwall - which is down to the government granting them use of it anyway, etc. The Royal Family do no work so logically contribute nothing.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 11, 2018, 02:53:29 PM
So you are willing to allow others to pick up the burden of your use of the roads.  I am seeing a pattern here, which extends to your pursuit of FSUW.


The Royal Family generates almost a billion alone from tourism.  Don't underestimate how many people visit the UK to see royal sites, and purchase royal themed kitsch from UK vendors. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 11, 2018, 03:00:51 PM
So you are willing to allow others to pick up the burden of your use of the roads.  I am seeing a pattern here, which extends to your pursuit of FSUW.


The Royal Family generates almost a billion alone from tourism.  Don't underestimate how many people visit the UK to see royal sites, and purchase royal themed kitsch from UK vendors.
Yes Boethius, Trench expects others to pick up the tab for his life just as he wants any FSUW unfortunate enough to be ensnared by him to pay for her own upkeep. It’s  like visiting a prostitute and asking her to pay herself for him to use her services.  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 11, 2018, 07:37:30 PM
Not true,

But the figures re tax were your words ..  you are busted, son

Thank you for confirming - you're happy to live off the state in retirement ...not having contributed enough

You DO realise Mrs Trench has no recourse to public funding during her probationary period of residency ?

Now, you seek you deflect from your desire to sponge by suggesting the Royal Family are 'worse' ? ;)))

Edited to add

So, 'no RFL for your 'vehicle' ..?

You must either be disabled, driving an electric car, one that is over forty years old, steam driven, or a tractor.... !










Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 11, 2018, 07:54:05 PM
"I don't like to have to travel with the great unwashed unless I really have no other choice."

Why Trench?
UK public transportation is par excellence, IMHO, trains are awesome and FAST
even the buses are nice, and London's Underground
you guys have first class public transport
i've taken it extensively, NEVER a bad experience, people nice and friendly to me
1,000 times better than the USA
how can you live in the UK and NOT take public transport
be like sayin you don't go to the pub and have a pint(or 2) and Shepherd's pie while watching football with your mates
you live in such a GREAT place, why don't you enjoy it?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 11, 2018, 08:06:41 PM


you guys have first class public transport

IF you live near a railway or a city that might be true..

Villages have virtually no public transport
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 11, 2018, 09:33:10 PM
ahh, got it...
if I were you Trench, I'd MOVE to some place better then!  might even solve your dating problem as well!!!
any particular reason you stay where you are and haven't ALREADY moved to a larger city, better jobs, more social contact, etc?
you can still come and visit your mum on holiday!!

I love everything about the UK, except the right/left thing, makes me bonkers


msmob,

two months ago in Amsterdam, I became acquainted with EEZZGO, and rented a Biro 2-seat electric car
was skeptical a tall guy like me would fit inside, but it was fine, I loved that little "car"
and would be a fun thing to "tinker" with
would this be a practical "car" to have in the UK?
I would be reluctant driving this in the USA, for a variety of reasons, other cars/drivers make it a bad choice in the USA
but what is your opinion having this in the UK (not to drive on M5 or anything like that, but just "around town")
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 11, 2018, 10:07:07 PM
I don't just spend my tax on food, even here we are talking about me getting a make over, that's going to cost me a fair few £ on which I pay VAT, new clothes, etc - the more expensive the clothes the more VAT I will pay as it will be 20 percent if a larger sum. Besides I get stuff off Amazon all the time.

Now, I don't put out any garbage for collection I take it around my Mother's as the garbage recycling system is too complicated where I live - so many bins and odd timetables to navigate. When I have Lodgers though this is likely to change they will have to grapple with the system.

I basically don't wish to work and pay a third of what I earn in that day in tax. I would be a mug to be at work and be working just to hand that money over to the government, it would be daylight robbery by them on me. I also don't wish to help fund those that have no intention of working ever such as council estate scrotes and the royal family - they are the biggest scroungers of anyone and lead such a bad example.

What an inadequate lump of lack of ambition - you are  a  pathetic lazy leech  social misfit ( that ring a bell ?)

For those that have criticised   the Trenchcoat sceptics --just read what the idiots behaviour and attitudes are as HE has expressed --not just in the past but particularly today. :trainwreck:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 12:01:23 AM
Thank you for confirming - you're happy to live off the state in retirement ...not having contributed enough

You DO realise Mrs Trench has no recourse to public funding during her probationary period of residency ?

Edited to add

So, 'no RFL for your 'vehicle' ..?

You must either be disabled, driving an electric car, one that is over forty years old, steam driven, or a tractor.... !

Nope, there is indeed a zero percent/zero rated road fund license. So all I have to do each year is re-apply for the road fund (road tax) license but I don't have to pay anything, just click to sign up for another year.

I would have contributed enough stamp by the time I retire. There is nothing to say I should pay as much as I can. I know another guy about 10 years older than me going down to a three day week. He too is single and realised it doesn't pay to work a five day week to just get walloped with tax and lose good free time for very little. Don't blame us, blame femininism for f-ing up society. Single guys have no reason to work all hours under the sun.

I would of course support the woman while over here, would cost me very little and she can repay me in the bedroom ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 12:06:33 AM
What an inadequate lump of lack of ambition - you are  a  pathetic lazy leech  social misfit ( that ring a bell ?)

For those that have criticised   the Trenchcoat sceptics --just read what the idiots behaviour and attitudes are as HE has expressed --not just in the past but particularly today. :trainwreck:
The Trenchcoatism is breathtaking. I mean, to want to live on the breadline and work the bare minimum so as to avoid paying tax???
The dumb just got dumber.

Trench, let’s all stop paying tax.
There goes your pension, healthcare, education. Everything you expect the state to provide for you, all gone, the lot.
Please, don’t have children. The thought of more nihilistic Trenchcoats running around our streets makes me want to puke.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 12:07:43 AM
The Royal Family generates almost a billion alone from tourism.  Don't underestimate how many people visit the UK to see royal sites, and purchase royal themed kitsch from UK vendors.

Those tourists would still come here regardless, the country is far more than about the royal family. Tourists would just by other rubbish from the souvenir shop. The Royal Family directly does  no work and directly contributes nothing.

Part of the reason I am eager to leave the EU is the next item on the agenda ad I see it is a referendum to abolish the Monarchy. With UKIP no longer hogging the lime light, anti monarchist groups like Republic have their time to shine :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 12:12:19 AM
The Trenchcoatism is breathtaking. I mean, to want to live on the breadline and work the bare minimum so as to avoid paying tax???
The dumb just got dumber.

Trench, let’s all stop paying tax.
There goes your pension, healthcare, education. Everything you expect the state to provide for you, all gone, the lot.
Please, don’t have children. The thought of more nihilistic Trenchcoats running around our streets makes me want to puke.

I've told you I page some tax, but as a single guy there is no point me over doing it, I have no incentive too. I dint live on the breadline either as I am not working pointlessly just to pay a load of tax.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 12:25:54 AM


I would have contributed enough stamp by the time I retire.

Do you think your contributions go into a piggy bank marked Trenchcoats pension only?
What you pay now is paying for the (well, only a tiny bit since you pay in next to nothing) pensions of today’s pensioners.
The kids and grandkids today will be paying your pension.
Although I quite like the idea of earmarking your measly contributions just for you. You’ll get your comeuppance, Trench. I hope when the day comes and you require social care the state strips you of all your assets to pay for it.
Quote
There is nothing to say I should pay as much as I can. I know another guy about 10 years older than me going down to a three day week. He too is single and realised it doesn't pay to work a five day week to just get walloped with tax and lose good free time for very little. Don't blame us, blame femininism for f-ing up society. Single guys have no reason to work all hours under the sun.

Careful, Trench, the masks slipping.
Another aspect of Trenchcoatism: always seek to blame society’s ills on feminism.
Quote
I would of course support the woman while over here, would cost me very little and she can repay me in the bedroom ;D
Ah, that fantasy woman you keep mentioning.
I suggest you get one of these. You investment return will be greater.

Trenchs FWB (http://m.alibaba.com/product/60767588726/Online-shopping-USA-realistic-
sex-doll.html?s=p&spm=a2706.7843299.1998817009.4.590b3455uHPkoj)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 12:34:46 AM
So you've heard about how I work John, how about you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 12:38:19 AM
The welfare state was created as a safety net for those in need. The idea being that everybody contributed fairly and took out as and when needed.
Trench’s version: Pay the bare minimum, just enough to get his NI contributions record ticking over and take out the maximum.
As for healthcare, that’s just a freebie for Trench.

The system has had its day due to rampant abuse by the likes of Trench.
We need to go to an insurance funded model to pay for healthcare and an end to the state provision of pensions. That way the likes of Trench don’t get their grubby hands in the pot.
If he ends up destitute in the streets, we’ll, I won’t shed a tear.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 12:51:20 AM
So you've heard about how I work John, how about you?
I’m living the life Trench. I have a beautiful and loving FSUW wife. A happy and successful marriage. Lovely children. Great family life.
I earn more than enough so my wife doesn’t have to work. I pay my full share of taxes because I believe in the social contract.
She does community work and is loved and respected by all she meets.
I’m not a paranoid schizo like you Trench. I knew on my first date with my wife that I was going to marry her and I courted her like a man should.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 01:09:52 AM
The welfare state was created as a safety net for those in need. The idea being that everybody contributed fairly and took out as and when needed.
Trench’s version: Pay the bare minimum, just enough to get his NI contributions record ticking over and take out the maximum.
As for healthcare, that’s just a freebie for Trench.

The system has had its day due to rampant abuse by the likes of Trench.
We need to go to an insurance funded model to pay for healthcare and an end to the state provision of pensions. That way the likes of Trench don’t get their grubby hands in the pot.
If he ends up destitute in the streets, we’ll, I won’t shed a tear.

I've never had a hospital stay since birth John, so the way I see it I have been paying in for a service  I have yet to use. I don't mind that, it's still cheaper than any private health care insurance just in case I needed it, but to date I have not. Therefore the NHS has so far gained from me rather than me taking.

Private pensions are the worst for everyone, they have never been a good investment even if done through the workplace. Even all the financial experts agree that annuities are a bad return for investment. Do you realise how much more you would have to put into a private/workplace pension to get the same as under the state? You're easily talking 5 or more times. No one wins under that system, thinking 'I'm alright jack because I've provided for myself' - it doesn't work, you'll pay way more then probably get ripped off like most have done in the past - the pension scheme goes bust, company has a deficit I'm the pension plan, sock market crash right before pension scheme matures, overly excessive pension fund fees, etc. You know the biggest one though don't you John? Yep that's right, you die before you can even claim it, all those nice big hefty contributions goneto waste. If your wife is lucky (for those that have one) she might be able to claim a portion of it, IF it allows for a spousal claim, not all do, or it may be a measly amount.

Under the state pension scheme though, wife can claim a portion of your pension contributions if you die, so still likely a decent amount. You also wouldn't have paid in huge amounts so a lot less wasted money. As after all no one really knows if the will get to retirement age so no real point going overboard just in case. In other words John  that you may hopefully understand, private pensions are a mugs game for all involved.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 01:52:44 AM
I've never had a hospital stay since birth John, so the way I see it I have been paying in for a service  I have yet to use. I don't mind that, it's still cheaper than any private health care insurance just in case I needed it, but to date I have not. Therefore the NHS has so far gained from me rather than me taking.

Private pensions are the worst for everyone, they have never been a good investment even if done through the workplace. Even all the financial experts agree that annuities are a bad return for investment. Do you realise how much more you would have to put into a private/workplace pension to get the same as under the state? You're easily talking 5 or more times. No one wins under that system, thinking 'I'm alright jack because I've provided for myself' - it doesn't work, you'll pay way more then probably get ripped off like most have done in the past - the pension scheme goes bust, company has a deficit I'm the pension plan, sock market crash right before pension scheme matures, overly excessive pension fund fees, etc. You know the biggest one though don't you John? Yep that's right, you die before you can even claim it, all those nice big hefty contributions goneto waste. If your wife is lucky (for those that have one) she might be able to claim a portion of it, IF it allows for a spousal claim, not all do, or it may be a measly amount.

Under the state pension scheme though, wife can claim a portion of your pension contributions if you die, so still likely a decent amount. You also wouldn't have paid in huge amounts so a lot less wasted money. As after all no one really knows if the will get to retirement age so no real point going overboard just in case. In other words John  that you may hopefully understand, private pensions are a mugs game for all involved.
No it’s not a mugs game.
Carefully planned and managed pension plans are only a benefit.
Do you actually realise how contradictory you are?
State provision of pensions requires funding. Where do you think the state gets that funding? You think the state pension is a good deal but again  it only works if all parties uphold their end of the bargain.
You don’t want to do that yet you still expect to get a pay out. The rest of us are mugs for paying in.
I’m not relying on the state to provide a decent standard of living in retirement. I have a decent pension, investments, life insurance to provide for my wife if I pop my clogs early.
With you, it’s all take.
You’re a greedy man and any FSUW will sniff you out a long way away.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 02:10:43 AM
No it’s not a mugs game.
Carefully planned and managed pension plans are only a benefit.
Do you actually realise how contradictory you are?
State provision of pensions requires funding. Where do you think the state gets that funding? You think the state pension is a good deal but again  it only works if all parties uphold their end of the bargain.
You don’t want to do that yet you still expect to get a pay out. The rest of us are mugs for paying in.
I’m not relying on the state to provide a decent standard of living in retirement. I have a decent pension, investments, life insurance to provide for my wife if I pop my clogs early.
With you, it’s all take.
You’re a greedy man and any FSUW will sniff you out a long way away.

It's up to the state to set the taxation to bring in the money they need to fund the State pension. They set the taxation collection system as it is so I assume they are happy with this, I have no real say over the taxation system.

I see you have bought the private pension marketing BS over not relying on the state pension - why not? It's a good system, it pays out better than a private pension and has been around for decades as a successful system, few if any private providers can boost that.

The idea of individual private pensions does not work. It's mindless self conceitedness. The 'I've got this much more because I've provided it for myself, he hasn't' mentality, you won't, you'll be swindled off it one way or another. Hell the state mah even decide you get less state pension because you have a private pension, thanks for that! :)

I also would not go overboard on life insurance, if any, what if your wife decides to do you in to claim it. I wouldnt be able to sleep easy in bed at night if it were me ::)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 12, 2018, 02:37:24 AM


Private pensions are the worst for everyone, they have never been a good investment

 :ROFL:

Trench proves he is no financial expert, either
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 02:44:40 AM
It's up to the state to set the taxation to bring in the money they need to fund the State pension. They set the taxation collection system as it is so I assume they are happy with this, I have no real say over the taxation system.

I see you have bought the private pension marketing BS over not relying on the state pension - why not? It's a good system, it pays out better than a private pension and has been around for decades as a successful system, few if any private providers can boost that.

The idea of individual private pensions does not work. It's mindless self conceitedness. The 'I've got this much more because I've provided it for myself, he hasn't' mentality, you won't, you'll be swindled off it one way or another. Hell the state mah even decide you get less state pension because you have a private pension, thanks for that! :)

I also would not go overboard on life insurance, if any, what if your wife decides to do you in to claim it. I wouldnt be able to sleep easy in bed at night if it were me ::)
You are deliberately working the bare minimum and living on the breadline to avoid paying all but the barest minimum of contributions but still expect to get a full return ie full state pension, NHS care when needed. You’re the swindler here.

As for my pension provisions, you don’t know what they are.
And yes, I want to live in comfort in my twilight years instead of relying on state handouts and yes, I will have more than the likes of you because I’ve earned it and payed for it, unlike you.
I can see you in  a council funded care home dribbling into your soup, still scouring the FSU dating sites hoping to find a woman dying to be rescued from Dumpsk, being man handled and slapped around by some immigrant care workers who couldn’t give a toss about you or lying in a hospital corridor on a trolley for hours on end because there are no beds for tossers like you.The state will have taken your property to pay for your care, you won’t have family because no woman will have you.
You deserve that, after all, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Yes, it’s a lonely miserable life you’ll have. Well deserved.
As for me, I’ll be able to pursue the activities and hobbies I want, travel with my wife to new places. Spend time at our dacha with our grandchildren, enjoy a healthy and happy life, as much as one can hope for.
As for your remarks on life insurance, why on earth do you want to get married? Just for a nightly shag? Look up the sex doll, it’ll be a far better return on investment for you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 03:40:36 AM
John, you will be the one whinging on TV in years to come how you were done over on your private pension after all of those years paying in a handsome sum. I see those sorts of losers on TV all the time stating how they 'did the right thing' told 'if they did such & such' they would come good. Truth is they are just suckers the private pension company and state use as mugs. You will be spending your time eith the joy of filling in your self assessment for the piddley amount of private pension you get, I will be able to go out and enjoy myself with that time :) If I end up having no family of my own I'm certainly not going to provide for others so yes I'll keep my contributions minimal. The end result of feminism f-ing up society.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 12, 2018, 04:08:10 AM
Those tourists would still come here regardless, the country is far more than about the royal family. Tourists would just by other rubbish from the souvenir shop. The Royal Family directly does  no work and directly contributes nothing.


Nope.  Tourism to the UK increases during royal weddings.  Foreigners love the pomp and pageantry, which doesn't exist anywhere else.  You don't see it, because you're not a foreigner.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 12, 2018, 04:18:00 AM
John, you will be the one whinging on TV in years to come how you were done over on your private pension after all of those years paying in a handsome sum. I see those sorts of losers on TV all the time stating how they 'did the right thing' told 'if they did such & such' they would come good. Truth is they are just suckers the private pension company and state use as mugs. You will be spending your time eith the joy of filling in your self assessment for the piddley amount of private pension you get, I will be able to go out and enjoy myself with that time :) If I end up having no family of my own I'm certainly not going to provide for others so yes I'll keep my contributions minimal. The end result of feminism f-ing up society.

HAHAHAHA. 

I don't know how government pensions are determined in the UK, but in Canada, your government pension is determined by your earnings, to a maximum of around $52,000 in earnings.  So if you didn't work, or worked for less than that amount, you will have a much smaller pension on retirement.  The maximum benefit is around $1300 a month, which is not enough to live on.

I have a lot of clients with private pensions worth more than $3 million.  I suppose I should tell them some guy making 1,000 pounds a month or so says they are "losers".

Feminism didn't ruin society.  The love of money did. 

I always tell FSUW if a man is critical of feminists, avoid him like the plague.  Rarely will he be a good husband.  Almost all the men here who railed against evil Western feminists eventually were dumped by their FSU brides.  The longest of those marriages was 10 years (no children).
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 04:22:34 AM
John, you will be the one whinging on TV in years to come how you were done over on your private pension after all of those years paying in a handsome sum. I see those sorts of losers on TV all the time stating how they 'did the right thing' told 'if they did such & such' they would come good. Truth is they are just suckers the private pension company and state use as mugs. You will be spending your time eith the joy of filling in your self assessment for the piddley amount of private pension you get, I will be able to go out and enjoy myself with that time :) If I end up having no family of my own I'm certainly not going to provide for others so yes I'll keep my contributions minimal. The end result of feminism f-ing up society.
Hark at thee. 😂😂😂
So you’re a daytime TV watcher. That’s all I need to know.
Filling in tax forms...that’s what I employ an accountant for.
Trench, ever since you’ve been posting on this forum one thing has stood out.

You are envious.
Envious of the better looking guys
Envious of the better educated guys
Envious of the more confident guys
Envious of the guys who can talk to woman easily
Envious of the guys who are more well off
Envious of the guys who have good pensions
and the list goes on......


The world owes you nothing. Nor do women. They want the best candidate to fertilise their eggs so they aren’t going to do the tango in the bedroom with you. Nature will discard your genetic legacy and ensure you don’t pollute the gene pool. You’ll be forgotten before you can say happy hockey sticks.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 04:43:08 AM

Nope.  Tourism to the UK increases during royal weddings.  Foreigners love the pomp and pageantry, which doesn't exist anywhere else.  You don't see it, because you're not a foreigner.

Natives just have to foot the bill for it, they whole lot, huge security bill and all on the back of the taxpayer. The royals with all their vast wealth refuse to pay a penny for their own weddings,  appalling! They expect poor low paid, hard worked worders, working in shops, fast food takeaways and factories etc to pay for them! It's really outrageously poor behaviour.

In the latest 'Harry & Meg' episode they even refused to pay for any food provision for invited guests telling them to bring a pack lunch - how tight can you get! The also would not provide any food for the local homeless but instead wanted them cleaned off the streets so as to not look unsightly for their wedding despite it all being on the back of the taxpayer it's the least they could have done. They get so much and give back absolutely nothing! And people here complain at me, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 12, 2018, 04:49:22 AM
Payments directly to the royal family are something like 80 pence per person.

The Queen earned every penny alloted to her in meeting Trump. Please note, he really wanted a meeting with her, and not with your PM.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 04:49:45 AM
HAHAHAHA. 

I don't know how government pensions are determined in the UK, but in Canada, your government pension is determined by your earnings, to a maximum of around $52,000 in earnings.  So if you didn't work, or worked for less than that amount, you will have a much smaller pension on retirement.  The maximum benefit is around $1300 a month, which is not enough to live on.

I have a lot of clients with private pensions worth more than $3 million.  I suppose I should tell them some guy making 1,000 pounds a month or so says they are "losers".

Sure if your a baron of industry I'm sure it works all very well for them, they have so much money it doesn't matter if an annuity isnt a great return it's just an assured payment the are after if heavens forbid everything goes south and they probably don't want to manage any other income source for the bother of it. For the average worker though they are a waste of time and a mugs game.

Here in the UK the state pension unlike in Canada is a flat rate for all. So placing me in a decent position :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 12, 2018, 04:51:59 AM
Not everyone has an annuity. Most invested in balanced portfolios. These are businessmen who own small businesses. They are not barons of industry.

Perhaps one of the UK posters can elaborate, but based on this-
http://www.gov.uk/state-pension  UK pensions are similar to those in Canada.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 04:53:22 AM
Payments directly to the royal family are something like 80 pence per person.

The Queen earned every penny alloted to her in meeting Trump. Please note, he really wanted a meeting with her, and not with your PM.

Trump is not keen on our PM he thinks she is a School Mistress, lol. He is probably right (think her father was a head master) but I think she is dedicated to the job nonetheless.

I would rather keep my 80 pence as see those feckless royals put to real work :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 04:54:55 AM
Not everyone has an annuity. Most invested in balanced portfolios. These are businessmen who own small businesses. They are not barons of industry.

$3 million seems 'a lot' for a small business.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 12, 2018, 04:55:52 AM
The Queen at aged 90 works more than you do, so you really don’t have much to complain about.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 12, 2018, 04:57:34 AM
$3 million seems 'a lot' for a small business.

Nope. Business owners who work hard and have drive can accumulate that amount fairly easily.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 05:06:11 AM
Trench,
I am curious, do you live now, in the same location you were born?
have you ever at any point in your life, lived elsewhere?

I have noticed with my relatives in the UK, that they tend to stay put
it’s very common in American culture however to move frequently
I didn’t buy my first property in the USA (a small 2 bedroom house) until I was in my late 30s
prior to that, I rented an apartment, and almost every time I changed jobs, I would move

seriously, why haven’t you moved to a better location, with more jobs, more social contact?

BO,
nor can I speak for the UK, but to give you a comparison for the USA
we call it “social security” here
your taxable earnings to determine your contribution is capped at an income limit, this year it is $128,400. I can remember that in 1984 it was $48,500
of this amount, the social security tax is 6.2%, you and your employer each pay this amount however, since 1993, I have been self-employed, so I pay both parts, or 12.4%
since the social security retirement age has been raised, I still have a long way to go before I collect it, it would just barely be enough for my wife and I to live on (and it’s tax free)
also, if I should die young(ish), my wife at age 60, would collect half my pension
I understand I can’t rely on this alone, so my wife and I own several rentals
and I have a separate tax-deferred retirement investment fund that we call a 401K, that I’ve contributed to for over 30 yr, and plan to cash in this year, and it will go to Rice University
and not to my boat...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 05:24:31 AM
Hark at thee. 😂😂😂
So you’re a daytime TV watcher. That’s all I need to know.
Filling in tax forms...that’s what I employ an accountant for.
Trench, ever since you’ve been posting on this forum one thing has stood out.

You are envious.
Envious of the better looking guys
Envious of the better educated guys
Envious of the more confident guys
Envious of the guys who can talk to woman easily
Envious of the guys who are more well off
Envious of the guys who have good pensions
and the list goes on......


The world owes you nothing. Nor do women. They want the best candidate to fertilise their eggs so they aren’t going to do the tango in the bedroom with you. Nature will discard your genetic legacy and ensure you don’t pollute the gene pool. You’ll be forgotten before you can say happy hockey sticks.

Your obviously quite a wealthy guy if you can afford an Accountant to do your business. For most people who earn an average income or less it would be a unwelcome financial burden to employ one.

End of the day we all get quickly forgotten about when we pass on, not that it matters either way really as when dead you're not going to know either way.

The world has never given me anything, like I say, I work clever on the situation I am in. No one is going to be giving me a plum job so I'm not going to be a good little pleb and be foolish enough to work my ass for for jack all from some employer.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 05:25:51 AM
The Queen at aged 90 works more than you do, so you really don’t have much to complain about.

She does feck all. You don't know how hard I work for myself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 12, 2018, 05:29:57 AM
She does work hard, and more than the 3 days a week you have posted you work.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on August 12, 2018, 05:33:52 AM
 Is a private pension fund what we call retirement superannuation in Australia?..... Mines been performing well and has gained 50% in the last 3 years, far more than my contributions.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 05:36:38 AM
Not everyone has an annuity. Most invested in balanced portfolios. These are businessmen who own small businesses. They are not barons of industry.

Perhaps one of the UK posters can elaborate, but based on this-
http://www.gov.uk/state-pension  UK pensions are similar to those in Canada.

For a lawyer you don't read well Boethius :D

It essentially tells you the flat rate you'll get is £125. Everyone will get that unless there is a shortfall in their National Insurance (NI) contribution - which means they have failed tk pah in for all or part of a year. They might have been a student, gone abroad for a long time, did not work but did not sign on, was bringing up child, did not work/earn enough over the NI threshold ti be taxed NI and hence be credited with a contribution, etc.

The bit about salary after the bottom is stating how much the £125 will increase by each year. It increases based on society average salaries.

None of it relates to how much you earn during your lifetime it's irrelevant so long as you earn enough each week to be taxed NI on it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 05:37:59 AM
She does work hard, and more than the 3 days a week you have posted you work.

I told you before that is just my employment, I work for myself - I'm on the go 'all' days of the week.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 05:46:26 AM
Trench, Trench, Trench....

what was that show many years back in the UK, where they had these puppet "caricatures" of famous people?
LMFAO, on the episode where the queen was trying to find, without any success a stamp to mail a letter
so she rubbed some ink on her face, and pressed it against the envelope, voila! her stamp!!!
this is all the work the queen has to do

I see you have A LOT of resentment and are filled with anger and disappointment
but instead of using this feeling in a positive way as fuel to become your own Horatio Alger
you use it in a negative way and it keeps you where you are
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 05:55:06 AM
Your obviously quite a wealthy guy if you can afford an Accountant to do your business. For most people who earn an average income or less it would be a unwelcome financial burden to employ one.

End of the day we all get quickly forgotten about when we pass on, not that it matters either way really as when dead you're not going to know either way.

The world has never given me anything, like I say, I work clever on the situation I am in. No one is going to be giving me a plum job so I'm not going to be a good little pleb and be foolish enough to work my ass for for jack all from some employer.
Wealth is relative. One mans wealth is another’s pocket change.
You don’t have to employ an accountant. There is such a thing as self assessment.
 If you leave behind a loving family you won’t be forgotten. You live on in your children.
Why exoectvthe world to give you something? Go work for it. No, you don’t work clever. You’re simply a scrounger and envious of those better off than you.
Lower middle class is where I place you in the social stratum, probably with working class roots, nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, social mobility won’t come to you. You’ll stay where you are. Probably left school with a couple of GCSEs and no desire to better yourself.
Like you said, no one is going to give you a plum job. Why should they? What have you to offer an employer for a well paid job? Jack S**t apparently.

The queen has given a lifetime of dedicated service to this country. What have you done?
The Royal Family is paid from the Sovereign grant which replaced the civil list a few years ago. It’s not tax payer funded. The money comes from the ‘profits’ from the Crown Estates, which she owns do she actually pays more into public funds. The grant is about 15% presently servto rise to 25% in s few years to pay for renovations to Buckingham Palace. Bo is spot on, the Royals generate billions in tourism revenues. They do us proud.
Oh, when (if) you get hitched, let us know. We’ll send the homeless around to cheer you. Sure your bride would appreciate that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 06:07:28 AM
For a lawyer you don't read well Boethius :D

It essentially tells you the flat rate you'll get is £125. Everyone will get that unless there is a shortfall in their National Insurance (NI) contribution - which means they have failed tk pah in for all or part of a year. They might have been a student, gone abroad for a long time, did not work but did not sign on, was bringing up child, did not work/earn enough over the NI threshold ti be taxed NI and hence be credited with a contribution, etc.

The bit about salary after the bottom is stating how much the £125 will increase by each year. It increases based on society average salaries.

None of it relates to how much you earn during your lifetime it's irrelevant so long as you earn enough each week to be taxed NI on it.
Actually, that is incorrect. If you were born before 1951 you get the basic state pension. Otherwise you get the new state pension which is £164 per week and linked to the CPI. I think one has to pay in a min of 30 years full contributions to qualify for the full amount. So if there are any gaps the pension will be less.
The state pension is not enough to live on so, Trench, your poverty will continue into old age.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 06:20:08 AM
Wealth is relative. One mans wealth is another’s pocket change.
You don’t have to employ an accountant. There is such a thing as self assessment.
 If you leave behind a loving family you won’t be forgotten. You live on in your children.
Why exoectvthe world to give you something? Go work for it. No, you don’t work clever. You’re simply a scrounger and envious of those better off than you.
Lower middle class is where I place you in the social stratum, probably with working class roots, nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, social mobility won’t come to you. You’ll stay where you are. Probably left school with a couple of GCSEs and no desire to better yourself.
Like you said, no one is going to give you a plum job. Why should they? What have you to offer an employer for a well paid job? Jack S**t apparently.

The queen has given a lifetime of dedicated service to this country. What have you done?
The Royal Family is paid from the Sovereign grant which replaced the civil list a few years ago. It’s not tax payer funded. The money comes from the ‘profits’ from the Crown Estates, which she owns do she actually pays more into public funds. The grant is about 15% presently servto rise to 25% in s few years to pay for renovations to Buckingham Palace. Bo is spot on, the Royals generate billions in tourism revenues. They do us proud.
Oh, when (if) you get hitched, let us know. We’ll send the homeless around to cheer you. Sure your bride would appreciate that.

All of what the Royals have is stolen money over the centuries, they have never earnt any of it.

I get the impression you are one of these people that run a business and live of the backs of your hard working employees who earn you a lot of money. Then have the cheek to turn around and call guys like me scroungers while it is you who is the scrounger, nothing more than a parasite living of the backs of your employees hard work. Then come out with the old right wing chestnut of the 'World not owing me a living'. Well the World apparently seems to owe you a living John or rather your workers do. No I like many have decided I am done with working like a mug and won't be whipped to work harder for lazy feckers like you John to live of my back. In the future you may have to do your own work, fill you with fear does it? Perhaps it's uncharted territory for you?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 06:33:15 AM
All of what the Royals have is stolen money over the centuries, they have never earnt any of it.

I get the impression you are one of these people that run a business and live of the backs of your hard working employees who earn you a lot of money. Then have the cheek to turn around and call guys like me scroungers while it is you who is the scrounger, nothing more than a parasite living of the backs of your employees hard work. Then come out with the old right wing chestnut of the 'World not owing me a living'. Well the World apparently seems to owe you a living John or rather your workers do. No I like many have decided I am done with working like a mug and won't be whipped to work harder for lazy feckers like you John to live of my back. In the future you may have to do your own work, fill you with fear does it? Perhaps it's uncharted territory for you?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...........
You don’t KNOW what hard work is, you lazy tosspot. So here’s a case of extreme sour grapes. Do you also belong to the Socialist Workers Party?
Oh, your impression is waaaaaaay off.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 06:39:15 AM
Trench,
your critique of Capitalism makes you sound like one of the "Warwick Marxists"
I know about the "class divide" in the UK
but this resentment will not be productive in your OWN LIFE
plenty of people (even in the UK, where IMHO these is less social mobility) have risen from humble backgrounds to become successful people
but they usually have a very HIGH level of DETERMINATION
I just don't see this determination in you, it's been replaced by resentment
if you don't have OPPORTUNITY where you currently live, then MOVE!


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 07:00:25 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...........
You don’t KNOW what hard work is, you lazy tosspot. So here’s a case of extreme sour grapes. Do you also belong to the Socialist Workers Party?
Oh, your impression is waaaaaaay off.

No I don't. But I'm not going to drag myself into work 5 days or more a week for an employer and resign myself to serfdom. I would rather free myself from that and go out and get my due for my work.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 07:22:01 AM
Trench,
when I was younger, I used to work 80 hour weeks in a salaried position
salaried, means my paycheck was exactly the same whether I worked 40 or 80 hr a week
OF COURSE, we're EXPLOITED!
but the outcome of that exploitation is I received the maximum amount of "on the job training" that an engineer can get
and a strong desire to be "on my own" to escape this obvious exploitation, which I admit feels awful
my first year of being "an independent engineering contractor" doubled my income and halved the number of hours worked!
and it got even better after that when I started selling my designs instead of my labor
just sayin there are ways out of "the trap"
and that way isn't resentment
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 08:30:02 AM
No I don't. But I'm not going to drag myself into work 5 days or more a week for an employer and resign myself to serfdom. I would rather free myself from that and go out and get my due for my work.
If you’re someone( which you are, apparently) with no talent, skill or sought after employability then you take what you can get. You can still move up the ladder but you have to be motivated and have a work ethic. You have neither.
Where does that leave you? Competing for jobs at the lowest level, hence I suspect your resentment of Easternn European migrants. The difference between you and them however, is their work ethic. They come over, and yes, they take the lowest paid jobs and undercut the likes of you but soon they move up, save their cash, start up businesses and become successful, whereas you, are stuck in the same place, wallowing in your resentment and self pity.
It’s your attitude which determines your lack of success plus the fact the state, with its misguided intentions, perpetuates the cycle of dependency and poverty.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 08:38:58 AM
All of what the Royals have is stolen money over the centuries, they have never earnt any of it.

I get the impression you are one of these people that run a business and live of the backs of your hard working employees who earn you a lot of money. Then have the cheek to turn around and call guys like me scroungers while it is you who is the scrounger, nothing more than a parasite living of the backs of your employees hard work. Then come out with the old right wing chestnut of the 'World not owing me a living'. Well the World apparently seems to owe you a living John or rather your workers do. No I like many have decided I am done with working like a mug and won't be whipped to work harder for lazy feckers like you John to live of my back. In the future you may have to do your own work, fill you with fear does it? Perhaps it's uncharted territory for you?
What you’re actually saying is you want to do the least amount of work for the maximum reward. Unfortunately, beggars can’t be choosers. If you had a in demand skill or talent you could command your own price. The market would see to that but you haven’t so you’ll have to settle for less or change your skill set to your advantage.
I doubt you’ll do that. You just don’t want to work but expect the rewards anyway.
The world isn’t going to change for you. To change the world, start by changing yourself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on August 12, 2018, 09:44:22 AM
Actually, that is incorrect. If you were born before 1951 you get the basic state pension. Otherwise you get the new state pension which is £164 per week and linked to the CPI. I think one has to pay in a min of 30 years full contributions to qualify for the full amount. So if there are any gaps the pension will be less.
The state pension is not enough to live on so, Trench, your poverty will continue into old age.


And, in 20 years time (assuming Trench is approximately 45 now) will continue to change. Expect retirement age to increase and I would not rule out the state pension becoming significantly reduced or defunct. In the current climate it isn't sustainable any more. Legislation has changed significantly in all companies to obligate them to offer a private pension contribution.


Trench, tax is tax and all of us have to pay it. I pay the 50% threshold. Do i like it? No. Do I use it as an excuse to not work? No. I would not wish to contemplate living off £164 per week when I get to retirement. If I had a FSU (or other) spouse to support to boot and live a pleasant final phase of life? Ludicrous.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 09:46:57 AM
Trench,
human social behavior has its roots in biology
from an evolutionary perspective, strong males will allow for a more assured preservation of the human species.

if you’re not a strong male, nature intends for your genes NOT to be passed on for the sake of the whole species, this is just the way “things work”

you want your genes to be passed on? then BECOME a strong male
note: i’m not talkin about body building here!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 12, 2018, 10:24:06 AM

if you’re not a strong male, nature intends for your genes NOT to be passed on for the sake of the whole species, this is just the way “things work”

you want your genes to be passed on? then BECOME a strong male


Not an expert here, but . . .

I don't think changing one's current behavior causes any change in our genes that are passed on.

And evolution has a long way to go in terms of the 'correct' genes being passed on.
If it had worked to date, we wouldn't have any surviving physical and mental retardation.

Yes, I am in favor of selected breeding.  It will have to happen at some point in the future.  The sooner the better.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: rwd123 on August 12, 2018, 11:12:46 AM
I think I was told the monthly pension here (Ukraine) is 1,500UAH. So governments will always provide a pension. Good luck living on it!



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 11:19:13 AM
I think I was told the monthly pension here (Ukraine) is 1,500UAH. So governments will always provide a pension. Good luck living on it!

About £45 compared to current UK state pensioners of £500 approx per month.

So more than 10 times as much!

Our UK pensioners could live like lords out there then :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 11:25:34 AM
This brings back memories. During my dating everything FSU days, I dated a Ukrainian woman for awhile. I really liked her but she didn't want commitment. She had HUGE boobs that where shaped well. Not the sagging type most men don't like. On one date I let her choose where we should go. She chose a cemetery in in Seattle. It was a very nice and well kept cemetery. We walked around until we found a bench at a mausoleum. We sat, talked and made out. Then talked and made out over and over again.

Long story short, she had the same beliefs as you. She felt it the past, the weak would die and that is a natural process. Now everybody is living with the strong carrying the weak and it's weakening the gene pool and we are going to have a higher percentage of people with problems. There will come a time when the burden becomes too great for the able mind and body people to take care of those who can't or those who are lazy. In the old days, if you can't perform or are lazy, you don't eat.

I'm not sure when things come to a head but I don't think anytime soon. Soon we'll be able to buy robots with artificial intelligence for everyone on social programs.

She was obviously wanting to be careful who she passed those great boobs onto :D

When we have robots & machines to do everything, no one will have to work, so I guess we will all get alloted benefit money and get lazy, lol
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 11:40:38 AM
“I don't think changing one's current behavior causes any change in our genes that are passed on.”



it doesn’t ALTER the genes, it alters the EXPRESSION of the genes
for example:

http://blogs.ucdavis.edu/egghead/2017/05/12/better-worse-links-genetics-stress/

researchers say that chronic exposure to stressful conditions—such as poverty, family discord, and poor nutrition—can alter the way genes behave in children and adolescents, making them more susceptible to depression, anxiety, and other negative effects of stress

however, not the intent of my admittedly poorly phrased post

for example, if you’re a member of a species that defines “reproductive strength” as how bright your plumage is, and how big your chest is when you “puff it up”, well if you want to mate, you sure better have these qualities.

to me trench’s problem is he doesn’t have human male reproductive strength, which let’s face it, is based upon indications of “success”

but where we differ from animals, is that if an animal is lacking, not much they can do about it, but we CAN change ourselves

I hate to tell Trench this, but I think it’s already too late for him, however, as I have previously indicated, I have seen couples in Ukraine based on a western man with a UA woman, where in my own admittedly flawed perception, the male had even LESS reproductive strength than him, and if it weren’t for that observation, I’d tell him that my opinion was that he should abandon his quest

if I were in Trench’s condition, I’d move to a large city in the UK, I think he’d have more opportunity there for EVERYTHING, all the corrections I feel Trench should’ve made in his life, should’ve been figured out and implemented by him A LONG TIME AGO, that’s why IMHO I think it’s too late for him



“If it had worked to date, we wouldn't have any surviving physical and mental retardation.”

not true, some of these things are recessive and don’t get expressed but can still be passed on


rwd123, in Russia average pension is 16,000 rubles a bit over $200 per month, some people get less


billyb
WTF?  now I can't get this image out of my mind, almost seems like a good opening to a horror movie, called "Strip by the Crypt"
oh wait, she had BIG boobs, oh well that's alright then, sorry
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 11:46:32 AM

And, in 20 years time (assuming Trench is approximately 45 now) will continue to change. Expect retirement age to increase and I would not rule out the state pension becoming significantly reduced or defunct. In the current climate it isn't sustainable any more. Legislation has changed significantly in all companies to obligate them to offer a private pension contribution.


Trench, tax is tax and all of us have to pay it. I pay the 50% threshold. Do i like it? No. Do I use it as an excuse to not work? No. I would not wish to contemplate living off £164 per week when I get to retirement. If I had a FSU (or other) spouse to support to boot and live a pleasant final phase of life? Ludicrous.

They can't just axe the state pension because people have paid for it. Plus it is political suicide as the vast bulk of voters are relying on it. That and it is a proven reliable system which works. It's more than sustainable, once the baby boom generation pass on there will be a smaller elderly population, some of us are living longer yes but the state pension age is moving up gradually from 65 to 68 to reflect this.

I opted out of the automatic company pension, I'm no mug ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 12:24:26 PM
About £45 compared to current UK state pensioners of £500 approx per month.

So more than 10 times as much!

Our UK pensioners could live like lords out there then :D

Another cracker from our Trench.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 12:32:36 PM
They can't just axe the state pension because people have paid for it. Plus it is political suicide as the vast bulk of voters are relying on it. That and it is a proven reliable system which works. It's more than sustainable, once the baby boom generation pass on there will be a smaller elderly population, some of us are living longer yes but the state pension age is moving up gradually from 65 to 68 to reflect this.

I opted out of the automatic company pension, I'm no mug ;D
Any govt with a sizeable majority can do just that. You are so fixated on the idea that you will hit the gravy train on retirement that you haven’t seen the goal posts changing these past few years.
Don’t forget, there are people who don’t pay into it (like you) but expect to be paid anyway. In any case it is not sustainable. It’s a ponzi pyramid scheme and will come crashing down in the not too distant future. You’re not paying for your pension, Trench but for the current pensioners. Your pension is already in hock, unlikely you will live to collect.
Make sure you have access to food banks, you’ll need them before long.
You should have stayed in that company scheme. More fool you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 12:38:45 PM

And, in 20 years time (assuming Trench is approximately 45 now) will continue to change. Expect retirement age to increase and I would not rule out the state pension becoming significantly reduced or defunct. In the current climate it isn't sustainable any more. Legislation has changed significantly in all companies to obligate them to offer a private pension contribution.


Trench, tax is tax and all of us have to pay it. I pay the 50% threshold. Do i like it? No. Do I use it as an excuse to not work? No. I would not wish to contemplate living off £164 per week when I get to retirement. If I had a FSU (or other) spouse to support to boot and live a pleasant final phase of life? Ludicrous.
Absolutely correct.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 12:48:33 PM
Trench, haven’t the foggiest notion about UK pensions, but I’ll assume the underlying logic is the same as for the US

I’ve been contributing to my 401k since 1981.  not a a lot in the first 5 years, and some years I had matching contributions from my employer

when I became self-employed in 1993, I began “maxing out” my 401k contribution, because my federal/state income tax was about 50% of my income “at the top end”
so every dollar I put in the 401k, was equal to $2 had I put it in my my non 401k savings, it’s kinda like compound interest, in the 90's and especially in the Obama era that money really grew, in fact during the Obama era the value of my 401k tripled (and that’s minus new contributions, I was invested in what’s called an indexed mutual fund), so when I cash it out and pay the taxes this year, the amount I have left over will be substantially more than had I just paid the income tax on this when earned and placed into my regular savings account, SUBSTANTIALLY more Trench
why was that a dumb move on my part, if you do the math it wasn’t!!!

it’s NOT my intention to hurt or offend you Trench, but you remind me of a kid, who when he finds out he’s not getting a bicycle for his birthday, says he never wanted one in the first place
this is NOT the way a MAN should behave Trench
and PLEASE TRUST ME in what I am saying, if SOMEONE LIKE ME can see this in you, a Ukrainian woman will see it in 3 seconds!!!

honestly don’t know for certain if it’s too late for you to change you or not, but time is getting short mate, and if you don’t get your life in order you’re probably gonna have zero luck in Ukraine, UNLESS you get VERY VERY LUCKY
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 01:36:16 PM
This is where council housing has skewed it in the UK. Fundamentally they carried it on too long letting the weak reproduce. Most people with mental problems are there. It's also produces people that more often than not lack responsibility - a roof is provided for them so they can do what the hell they like.

Some of the guys on here think I am poor. Well I'm not as wealthy as them but I own my own property outright. There are not a lot of people in the UK that can say that, most have mortgagea or rent. I know like Krimster said time is running out as even FSU of child bearing age only want a guy so old. Then it's off to the Philippines ;D

I can really only push things as far as I can in terms of creating wealth so will have to just plug away.

I have a fair bit in terms of intelligence - brains. I have two undergraduate degree's and a masters degree, along with a lot of other qualifications. Aside from that I try to act in an aware manner and try to avoid making dumb moves.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 01:42:07 PM
"I have a fair bit in terms of intelligence - brains. I have two undergraduate degree's and a masters degree, along with a lot of other qualifications. "

then why the hell aren't you living in a place where you can use... wait is this another daveny physics degree?
it means you are more educated than me!
if I lived in the UK I would be upper middle class without a doubt
what are your degrees?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 01:53:39 PM
what are your degrees?

My first Undergraduate degree is in History, my second more recent degree is in Architecture.

History was a bit of a non starter in terms of a career. Architecture is low paid until you've been in it for years. Employers also tend to employ a log of East Europeans in the industry, hopefully that will change after Brexit.

It's generally though why I am better off working for myself. Otherwise it's a lot of work with little return.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 02:24:46 PM
never would've guessed that, I have a cousin in the UK with a degree in architecture John Grindrod, published author, super funny and nice guy
I don't know him too well, he's from a part of the family that moved outta the west midlands to London when I was a child and he's younger than me, but we've met and had some pints together over the years
I'm pretty sure he grew up poorer than most of my family in the UK
today, he is VERY VERY successful...

don't understand why you don't live in London, or other big city, especially with that education

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 12, 2018, 02:47:42 PM
This is where council housing has skewed it in the UK. Fundamentally they carried it on too long letting the weak reproduce. Most people with mental problems are there. It's also produces people that more often than not lack responsibility - a roof is provided for them so they can do what the hell they like.
Oh my, virtuous Trench is looking down his nose at council tenants. Trench, you are describing yourself here.
Quote
Some of the guys on here think I am poor.
Living on minimum wage=poor. No ifs or buts about it.
Quote
Well I'm not as wealthy as them but I own my own property outright.
So you own your mid terraced or semi or whatever. That’s all your money locked away unless you sell but then you’d be homeless. You have no liquidity whatsoever.  Is that what you consider a marker of success?
Quote
There are not a lot of people in the UK that can say that
You know this as fact?
Quote

I can really only push things as far as I can in terms of creating wealth making ends meet so will have to just plug away.
Fixed that for you.
Quote
I have a fair bit in terms of intelligence - brains. I have two undergraduate degree's and a masters degree, along with a lot of other qualifications. Aside from that I try to act in an aware manner and try to avoid making dumb moves.
Bwahahahahahaha, Trench, the gift that keeps giving.
Where are your degrees from-The OU? Lol
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 12, 2018, 02:49:38 PM
don't understand why you don't live in London, or other big city, especially with that education

Expense, even rent costs a fortune up there now for a squalid hole of a place never mind buying.  Prices are astronomical, you're talking around £300K plus for a piddley little ex council flat if busing, crazy, stupid money.

I've turned down going for jobs up there from agencies the pay would be too little, it would all go on living costs so nothing in it for me.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 12, 2018, 02:57:21 PM
My first Undergraduate degree is in History, my second more recent degree is in Architecture.

Interesting.

For some one who rails against the Royal Family I suspect from understanding your view point, you must applaud Prince Charles's opinions on Post 2nd World War architecture in London.

Personally the designs of E. Lutyens fascinates me, and in some ways it precedes that of F. L. Wright. But if you see what his work in New Delhi is, it is simply depressing. Better to get A. Kapoor and start all over.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 03:29:06 PM
i was poor when I got out of university Trench!
had to live with roommates to share costs, drove a car that was more of a functioning wreck than anything else
all of my possessions would fit in 3 car loads
my bank account after my first year of working post grad school was maybe 3 or 4 thousand US dollars
spent the rest of my life pulling myself up
granted I happen to be in a profession that was in high demand
I really know nothing about architecture career wise
but I assume it's like most professions, that there's some career path where after 10 yr or so, you achieve some measure of "success"
that you keep climbing "up the hill"
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 03:40:21 PM
"Prices are astronomical, you're talking around £300K"

but 10% down isn't bad, get a big enough place to have a roommate to help with expenses
you should be able to do it
the first house I bought was a little tiny place for almost the same price, I put 10% down!!!
you already outright own a place, you can use that as security to borrow and buy an investment property
fix it up and sell it and then again and again
while you're working for some "firm"
I really have no idea about the UK job market for architects
but if you had your salary in the USA with your educational background, I'd think that there was something wrong, like you were living in Mississippi or some other "god forsaken" part of the country or you had prison tattoos on your forehead, or SOMETHING
you should be able to better than what you're doing now, I'm just too far "out of the picture" to see what's wrong

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: rwd123 on August 12, 2018, 04:04:10 PM
A degree is just a piece of paper. You need to leverage it to stuff your wallet with other little bits of paper.

If you think small time, you'll always be small time. That's a losing strategy, because girls will sense it and be repelled.

You've gotta think like a boss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NisCkxU544c






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 12, 2018, 07:26:51 PM

Where are your degrees from-The OU? Lol

Furthering oneself - all v. laudable -  but I note you ducked JG's question about the Open University.....


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 07:46:21 PM
Trench,
   you don't have to thank me for what I'm about to do, but I've got EVERYTHING all "sussed out" for you, really...really...

here's what ya do!!!!

1. rent out your property in the village
2. rent a cheap place in London
3. get an architect job in a London firm, and work your butt off there (quick look on google says you can make £40,000/yr)
4. sell your properties in the village
5. use the money from your property sale as a down payment on a property in London
6. get a roommate to help share expenses, maybe even a FEMALE one
7. profit£

while in London, you have IMMENSE social opportunities, my cousin is involved in dancing and art groups
you'd have a GREAT life there!

well, there it is...

alright, my work here is done...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 12, 2018, 08:20:49 PM
when I was young, Oxford had a correspondence school, kinda like on-line learning, pre-internet
if I remember correctly if you did 3 yr of correspondence , you could do your fourth at OXFORD!!!

t'was my fantasy!  if I spoke "received pronunciation" English in the USA w/ degree from Oxford
I would have been physically exhausted from the sheer volume of sex i'd be having
plus when I went to cemeteries  to scare folks in their little rendezvous there in the evenings
I'd probably get even more with the abandoned large breasted wimmin desperate for comfort and safety
damn.... coulda....woulda....
I can still see billyb running as fast as possible buck naked down the path, and hearing this little, barely perceptible "slap,slap,slap"
of his little willy bouncing off his stomach as he ran
DAMN, that'd be funny


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 13, 2018, 12:39:13 AM
K--  not sure if you are naive or just being far too kind !!
TC is NOT an architect ---  at the most --a low level draughtsman -probably  doing local council work !

My guess is that any "qualifications" he holds came out of a 'wheatie" packet !

As for your entrepreneurial suggests -- all fine for someone with a brain  in their head !  Or for someone who is not just bone lazy !

However --TC is the sort of guy that applauds when a business owner goes broke and loses his home -- that is what makes him feel so "superior" !!

He has repeatedly shown his total lack of "nous" -- across a range of issues -- and his stupid smugness because he "owns" his own "home" !

His general lack of empathy or understanding of human issues all leads back to my original assessment!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 13, 2018, 01:35:14 AM
K--  not sure if you are naive or just being far too kind !!
TC is NOT an architect ---  at the most --a low level draughtsman -probably  doing local council work !

My guess is that any "qualifications" he holds came out of a 'wheatie" packet !

As for your entrepreneurial suggests -- all fine for someone with a brain  in their head !  Or for someone who is not just bone lazy !

However --TC is the sort of guy that applauds when a business owner goes broke and loses his home -- that is what makes him feel so "superior" !!

He has repeatedly shown his total lack of "nous" -- across a range of issues -- and his stupid smugness because he "owns" his own "home" !

His general lack of empathy or understanding of human issues all leads back to my original assessment!

No I am not an Architect, I just said I had a degree in Architecture - Architectural Technology to be exact. To be an Architect you need the actual Architecture degree then another one year  out in an architecture practice to qualify for entry onto a one year diploma course (part2) then after passing that at least another year out in practice before taking the final (part 3) exam - a six month to a year long process or something like that.

So a minimum of seven years to become a fully qualified Architect, few do it in this time though more so than used to. Generally most will do it over at least 10 years or more - spending more time out on practice.

Then if they wish to set up an Architecture Practice by themselves that's a whole new ball game - loads of competition and a need to show previous clients and testimonials. Without such you would have a very quiet day every day most likely. Even with such you would have to win clients, deal with the ordeal of both clients wants an the planning system and probably building control also, contractors, suppliers, etc. After that you would have to hope you get enough money in to at least pay for running costs and your wages - at least enough to live on at a bare minimum.

In the UK anyone could start up an Architecture Practice, qualification or not. Only fully qualified Architects can call themselves Architects ie in their Advertising or its a court case and hefty fine. However, much of the general public is oblivious to this. In any case there is just loads of competition, also if the building industry suffers a slow down such as on the credit crunch a decade back so do you - some practices decimated their staff levels closing whole offices. So still sound like a good idea to get involved in that game?

Both of my degrees came from recognised established Universities. OU don't do any sort of Architecture degree's as it tends to take a fair amount of classroom time. Fact of the matter is I could whip most Architects at what they do any day of the week, but getting into starting an Architecture practice is a big outlay if yiu mran to go about it seriously and you need decent clients to be assured a return on that outlay. So I choose to do what I do for a more assured return on my investment :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 13, 2018, 02:27:44 AM
No I am not an Architect, I just said I had a degree in Architecture - Architectural Technology to be exact. To be an Architect you need the actual Architecture degree then another one year  out in an architecture practice to qualify for entry onto a one year diploma course (part2) then after passing that at least another year out in practice before taking the final (part 3) exam - a six month to a year long process or something like that.

So a minimum of seven years to become a fully qualified Architect, few do it in this time though more so than used to. Generally most will do it over at least 10 years or more - spending more time out on practice.

Then if they wish to set up an Architecture Practice by themselves that's a whole new ball game - loads of competition and a need to show previous clients and testimonials. Without such you would have a very quiet day every day most likely. Even with such you would have to win clients, deal with the ordeal of both clients wants an the planning system and probably building control also, contractors, suppliers, etc. After that you would have to hope you get enough money in to at least pay for running costs and your wages - at least enough to live on at a bare minimum.

In the UK anyone could start up an Architecture Practice, qualification or not. Only fully qualified Architects can call themselves Architects ie in their Advertising or its a court case and hefty fine. However, much of the general public is oblivious to this. In any case there is just loads of competition, also if the building industry suffers a slow down such as on the credit crunch a decade back so do you - some practices decimated their staff levels closing whole offices. So still sound like a good idea to get involved in that game?

Both of my degrees came from recognised established Universities. OU don't do any sort of Architecture degree's as it tends to take a fair amount of classroom time. Fact of the matter is I could whip most Architects at what they do any day of the week, but getting into starting an Architecture practice is a big outlay if yiu mran to go about it seriously and you need decent clients to be assured a return on that outlay. So I choose to do what I do for a more assured return on my investment :)
Architectural Technology, eh. Sounds like one of those made up courses of no use to man or beast in the real world. In the old days it was probably akin to a BTec qualification at the Polytechnics ( which suddenly became ‘universities’).
So tell us which established universities you attended for your degrees?

So, here’s another glimpse into TrenchWorld: On running a business
-be risk averse and
-expect clients to come knocking on your door.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 13, 2018, 04:52:01 AM
here in the USA, we employ a term called "Tiger Mom", it means an overbearing mother who is usually an Asian immigrant and not native born who berates their children if they don't do their homework sort of thing

i'm a Tiger Dad, I am involved in my children's education on a daily basis, and I "programmed" them to want to pursue a medical degree, and have done this "since they were knee high to a grasshopper", for example, the type of toys I'd buy them, type of books I'd buy them and so on, and it's worked!!!!

I come from a multi-ethnic background, my mother's family is solid British middle-class from the West Midlands, and I've spent a lot of time with them, I used to spend summers there when I was a little nipper, I feel I know the culture well, and I am a total Anglophile

my father came from Jewish immigrants who fled the Russian pogrom in Odessa

I love both, but there is a big difference between the two cultures

my dad's family is VERY intellectual, most men including my dad decided on a career in law, or medicine
all the moms in my dad's family are Tiger Moms
I think the only reason I became an electrical engineer instead of a doctor, was because I didn't have a Jewish mother, but a British one
in the UK, I'd define my British males relatives, with a few exceptions, as less "driven" less motivated to succeed, because their mother's weren't pushing them to
it's not that they are lazy, far from it they work very hard, and not that they're less intelligent
I think that if you're British, you don't feel the same insecurity, the same "pressure" that a non British non-WASP immigrant will feel
and that insecurity is a "valve" that controls your drive and motivation

so IMHO, Trench's issues somewhat relate to this...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 13, 2018, 05:10:06 AM
Architectural Technology

I believe this in the States means an Architectural Engineer. One can earn quite well in this field.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 13, 2018, 05:27:50 AM
Architectural Technology, eh. In the old days it was probably akin to a BTec qualification at the Polytechnics ( which suddenly became ‘universities’).
So tell us which established universities you attended for your degrees?

So, here’s another glimpse into TrenchWorld: On running a business
-be risk averse and
-expect clients to come knocking on your door.

Correct it was from a former Poly but nearly all Architectural Technology courses are. On the contrary to your other point it is very useful, it deals with the materials, specification and practicalities of building a building. Whereas Architecture deals with concept, form and aesthetic. Architects don't really get onto the technical side much until much later in their career - this is what Part 3 deals with in part.

Hence theoretically I could open up and Architecture Practice straight away and have an idea of what I am doing - an Architecture undergrad is very unlikely too, their degree is nearly aways far too arty farty to have a clue what if really takes to build a building.

That said it takes clients for an architecture practice to survive or any business really. The Web is full of people deluding themselves that they have a practice when really it is just all playing at being one - they have no clients and likely will never have any. I have no inclination to add myself to that list it's a sad existence I'm sure.

To me the idea of a business is to make money not cost me money. I don't see the point of putting effort in for little return either.

My History degree was from a traditional university technically speaking though not that old compared to mother of the traditional universities.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 13, 2018, 05:34:00 AM
Well Krimster I think most immigrants have a work hard mentality when they arrive. However, after a while most get settled and come to know the system and society and get more like the local population in terms of work ethic. It's the unsettled nature of immigration that makes the most difference.

It's not true I did not work hard in education, I did all thd way through and for longer than most. There is not a high percentage of thd UK population than has two undergraduate degree's,  a Masters degree and a load of other qualifications.

Though people in the UK tend to be very qualification oriented as it very competitive here.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 13, 2018, 06:00:45 AM
So now, you have a Masters Degree?

Sorry, Trench - but given your inability to prove most of your points - I rather doubt it ((
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 13, 2018, 06:28:45 AM
Well Krimster I think most immigrants have a work hard mentality when they arrive. However, after a while most get settled and come to know the system and society and get more like the local population in terms of work ethic. It's the unsettled nature of immigration that makes the most difference.

It's not true I did not work hard in education, I did all thd way through and for longer than most. There is not a high percentage of thd UK population than has two undergraduate degree's,  a Masters degree and a load of other qualifications.

Though people in the UK tend to be very qualification oriented as it very competitive here.
One can have a string of qualifications and yet, still be illiterate.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 13, 2018, 11:07:26 AM
TC, why did you bother with the time and expense of obtaining a Masters if you have the attitude the job opportunities it opens up are not worth the time to establish yourself in them?

I'm not bashing you, it's just a question.

You'll forgive me, I'm not degreed,
And when someone owned a business,  was looking to hire,  I certainly did not find that degrading to take their offer of employment.
They set the terms, as they own the business.
If I accepted their terms I appreciatiated they had the success,and took the risks needed, to gainfully employ others.
I always did the responsibilities of my job and then some, all the while feeling grateful to an employer as its understood their costs in employing me are far greater than just my salary or hourly wage.
I was the one looking for a job,and accepted stated terms.

 Somehow relationships with women were never difficult, or about monetary things.

I do work for myself now, but it's still solidly blue collar, so I just don't truly understand someone with your credentials not using them.
Perhaps you do with your hourly consulting type of job?
Those can be quite lucrative as well.

Like others have said, if it isnt in your area, relocate.
Yes it might take several years to establish oneself, but it beats the heck put of where you have gotten the last couple of decades I'd think?


Anyway. I don't subscribe to the notion that there is no hope for you to be married.

Most men do marry,regardless the size of their wallet, portfolio, or baggage.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 13, 2018, 04:30:53 PM
TC, why did you bother with the time and expense of obtaining a Masters if you have the attitude the job opportunities it opens up are not worth the time to establish yourself in them?

I'm not bashing you, it's just a question.

You'll forgive me, I'm not degreed,
And when someone owned a business,  was looking to hire,  I certainly did not find that degrading to take their offer of employment.
They set the terms, as they own the business.
If I accepted their terms I appreciatiated they had the success,and took the risks needed, to gainfully employ others.
I always did the responsibilities of my job and then some, all the while feeling grateful to an employer as its understood their costs in employing me are far greater than just my salary or hourly wage.
I was the one looking for a job,and accepted stated terms.

 Somehow relationships with women were never difficult, or about monetary things.

I do work for myself now, but it's still solidly blue collar, so I just don't truly understand someone with your credentials not using them.
Perhaps you do with your hourly consulting type of job?
Those can be quite lucrative as well.

Like others have said, if it isnt in your area, relocate.
Yes it might take several years to establish oneself, but it beats the heck put of where you have gotten the last couple of decades I'd think?


Anyway. I don't subscribe to the notion that there is no hope for you to be married.

Most men do marry,regardless the size of their wallet, portfolio, or baggage.

Its really a UK thing its a case of oversupply across many industries, lawyers are oversupplied so get low pay and struggle for opportunities - eventually they may get high pay 'if' they rise high enough, same foe many other professions. That's the problem of open door immigration policy to all EU nations.

Well, the terms the practices put forward are not good enough to make it worth my while, I am fortunate in being able to put my Architectural skills to my own use and make more money than I would do working for them. I've never been a cocksucker and have no wish to start now.

I appreicate your thoughts on my marriage chances, we'll just have to see how it goes, it either will or won't happen I guess.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 13, 2018, 04:38:29 PM
If you dress better and are better groomed, you'll look better in photos. If your brain is where it should be, what you write will be attractive to women.

You can't expect all women to like you. As you can see, there are some at this forum that think my view on politics and how the world should work is very wrong. Your goal shouldn't be to get women to like you. Your goal should be to get women to respect you. They won't love you if they don't respect you.

I've just been looking at my profile photos and realised they are all head/upper body pics so even they can really see how I am dressed fully. I think this may be part of the problem. I think I've already got some good clothes though always more that might be done I guess, so if I go out and take some decent full body poses and see how that goes I'm thinking.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 13, 2018, 07:54:45 PM
"I think this may be part of the problem."

in perhaps the same way that a grain of sand is part of a vast golden beach

No Trench, there is something bigger going on
i'm sure deep down, you KNOW what it must be, even if I do not
and until you free yourself from whatever it is, your life will keep going the way it always has
either free yourself, or accept that who you are now, is who you shall remain


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 13, 2018, 11:12:12 PM
TC, why did you bother with the time and expense of obtaining a Masters if you have the attitude the job opportunities it opens up are not worth the time to establish yourself in them?

I'm not bashing you, it's just a question.

You'll forgive me, I'm not degreed,
And when someone owned a business,  was looking to hire,  I certainly did not find that degrading to take their offer of employment.
They set the terms, as they own the business.
If I accepted their terms I appreciatiated they had the success,and took the risks needed, to gainfully employ others.
I always did the responsibilities of my job and then some, all the while feeling grateful to an employer as its understood their costs in employing me are far greater than just my salary or hourly wage.
I was the one looking for a job,and accepted stated terms.

 Somehow relationships with women were never difficult, or about monetary things.

I do work for myself now, but it's still solidly blue collar, so I just don't truly understand someone with your credentials not using them.
Perhaps you do with your hourly consulting type of job?
Those can be quite lucrative as well.

Like others have said, if it isnt in your area, relocate.
Yes it might take several years to establish oneself, but it beats the heck put of where you have gotten the last couple of decades I'd think?


Anyway. I don't subscribe to the notion that there is no hope for you to be married.

Most men do marry,regardless the size of their wallet, portfolio, or baggage.
You’re quite right, most men domarry. However, most men aren’t Trench.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 13, 2018, 11:19:03 PM
Its really a UK thing its a case of oversupply across many industries, lawyers are oversupplied so get low pay and struggle for opportunities - eventually they may get high pay 'if' they rise high enough, same foe many other professions. That's the problem of open door immigration policy to all EU nations.

Well, the terms the practices put forward are not good enough to make it worth my while, I am fortunate in being able to put my Architectural skills to my own use and make more money than I would do working for them. I've never been a cocksucker and have no wish to start now.

I appreicate your thoughts on my marriage chances, we'll just have to see how it goes, it either will or won't happen I guess.
Yet again, you make sweeping generalisations without any empirical data to substantiate your absurd claims.
This is a common recurring theme with you i.e. all UK women are fat, all UK jobs are low paid,
all employers are bloodsuckers and so on.
Were you dropped on the head as a baby?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on August 13, 2018, 11:57:20 PM
So now, you have a Masters Degree?

Sorry, Trench - but given your inability to prove most of your points - I rather doubt it ((

One can have a string of qualifications and yet, still be illiterate.

Why all the negativity about TC's qualifications? You have not met him personally and so have little idea of what he is really like! Half the time his posts are probably intended to wind-up his enemies on the forum. He is certainly succeeding as you take them all hook, line and sinker. Just an observation about this forum from a casual reader.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 14, 2018, 12:04:08 AM
Why all the negativity about TC's qualifications? You have not met him personally and so have little idea of what he is really like! Half the time his posts are probably intended to wind-up his enemies on the forum. He is certainly succeeding as you take them all hook, line and sinker. Just an observation about this forum from a casual reader.
What positives do you see in Trench? One can only address the persona projected here so speculation about his real personality is pointless.
No one is anyone’s enemy here. Do you always take forum life so seriously?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Blighty on August 14, 2018, 12:56:17 AM
What positives do you see in Trench? One can only address the persona projected here so speculation about his real personality is pointless.
No one is anyone’s enemy here. Do you always take forum life so seriously?

You certainly take forum life seriously by quickly posting a response to me! Just take a step back and look at how you are never off TC's back on this forum. He certainly has some off-beat ideas about women. Remember that we are all different here! Try discussing things with TC through PMs and you will find him to be a reasonable person. Think about the reasons why you chose an Ukrainian wife over a British wife. Their mindsets are very different, and I have given TC feedback about my experiences of having an Ukrainian wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 14, 2018, 01:26:44 AM
I lived in Ukraine for a significant period, in a two room apartment, with 2 RW.  I had significant contact with UW of all backgrounds.  Personally, I think the different "mindset" is overblown.  FSUW generally will care for the home almost exclusively, will do virtually all the cooking (other than outdoors), but what they want out of life is not particularly different from what WW want.  That is especially true with younger women.

If Trench is trolling here, then he is not getting the advice he seeks from the forum.  I will assume his perspectives are as he posts, and from that, and having known hundreds of FSUW, my prediction is he will not sustain a successful marriage with a UW.  What he wants, and what he can offer, are not what most women there seek.  He believes he can "outsmart" a UW, which is practically impossible.

One FSUW "mindset" that is very different from WW is that when an FSUW makes up her mind that she is done with you, she is done.  There is no turning back.  Most of them do not want you in their lives in any manner whatsoever, even where children are involved.  In Russia and Ukraine, an ex is truly an "ex".  There are many men who posted here in the past who can describe to  you that scorched earth policy, which they were perplexed by, and which many of them found very painful. 

I asked Trench early on what he can offer an FSUW.  His answer was "love".  Well, if that's what he can offer, given he wants a woman who has never been married, or has children, my response is, she can find that in her own country.  She doesn't need him, particularly if she is going to leave and live in almost the same economic conditions she left.  What is the big "jump" for her?  At least in her country, she is surrounded by people who speak her native language, by her family, by all that's familiar. 

There is only a certain subset of women who are willing to leave everything to move abroad.  Most of them want a better life materially, or a non gopnik man who is an intellectual equal.  It seems to me the sole advantage Trench has here is, he doesn't drink, as he certainly displays many other gopnik traits.  And, that alone is not enough for most women.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 14, 2018, 01:39:35 AM
As a postscript, I also believe it is cruel to encourage Trench to pursue a woman, as it will not end well for him. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 01:51:07 AM
"I think this may be part of the problem."

in perhaps the same way that a grain of sand is part of a vast golden beach

No Trench, there is something bigger going on
i'm sure deep down, you KNOW what it must be, even if I do not
and until you free yourself from whatever it is, your life will keep going the way it always has
either free yourself, or accept that who you are now, is who you shall remain

Well women online I guess can only go by what is written and the photos and base their response on that. Some women of course are looking for a younger guy and some women read that I am looking for a younger girl say if they are in their late thirties/early forties.

I think my profile statements are succinct enough and to the point, one short paragraph about me and one about what I want. So My hobbies so they have an idea of the kind of person I am. Then what I'm looking for, sincere woman, children & marriage, wanting serious relationship, etc.

The only thing I could try is to put that statement into Russian as well as my first letter perhaps to give them an easier read/allow the less English language girls an easier time.

I doubt it's a case of what's written though, I've heard that girls judge it like guys on the profile photos. At the moment I'm not getting anywhere near the 50 percent ML states, it's more like 10 percent then even most of them become lack lustre. I think I was getting more emphatic response when I replied back to girls who had contacted me first - I'm guessing because the interest was more there. However few women are contacting me now as my profile has been up there a while so would need a redo I think.

So with the profile photos the only thing I could change apart from full body pica & more with my interests involved is that I'm wearing glasses in my pics. I did this to be honest and assumed it would not be a big deal for girls. Some guys on here said they wore glasses and it was no problem. However I'm wondering if for me it may not work well.  I could wear contacts instead and have berm turning over the idea of laser eye surgery in my mind.

I'll be honest, it may sound like double standards but I dint usually take too well to photos of women who wear glasses, I don't know why as I wear them myself, it's nothing intentional they tend to put me off in some way though.

That is all I can think off, I may not be Brad Pitt but I would say I'm at least around average in looks I would say. I'm about 6ft tall, full head of brown hair, slim/average build but not athletic, facially at least around an average I would guess - no real obvious oddities.

So that is all I can think off, to take some photos where I'm not wearing glasses and see how it goes.


Though I guess it is also worth noting that I tend to put in for a lot of pretty girls, all at least a 7 or 8 though even they tend to be quite attractive and are probably in demand a lot. I've said before on here I'm not too keen on daring another 9 or 10 as loads of guys would always be after them, though I guess occasionally a few of them I can't help but put in for also.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 02:04:44 AM

There is only a certain subset of women who are willing to leave everything to move abroad.  Most of them want a better life materially, or a non gopnik man who is an intellectual equal.  It seems to me the sole advantage Trench has here is, he doesn't drink, as he certainly displays many other gopnik traits.  And, that alone is not enough for most women.

Yet we are told that women in their early thirties onwards if not younger can't find a decent guy as not only the male/female ratio swings against them at that age they are also left with the dregs of society, drinks, druggies, those with mental health problems or those that are unemployment, or in low paid work, socially difficult or a bit thick,  etc.

We are also told many just want a man who can provide to have children with. They really want a family and to not be married is looked down upon in FSU culture.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 14, 2018, 02:21:45 AM
I can think of a half dozen UM between the ages of 35 and 42 who are unmarried and don’t drink, use drugs, are completely normal good “catches”.

My husband is in Ukraine right now and his cousin’s son, aged 34, just married. Another of his cousins, now in her late forties, married her second husband about six years ago, and they had a child. He’d been married before as well but had no children and they had a child when she was 42. She had two grown children. Another male relative married last year, his first marriage at 43.

So, your statement is overly broad and inaccurate.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 02:28:07 AM
I can think of a half dozen UM between the ages of 35 and 42 who are unmarried and don’t drink, use drugs, are completely normal good “catches”.

My husband is in Ukraine right now and his cousin’s son, aged 34, just married. Another of his cousins, now in her late forties, married her second husband about six years ago, and they had a child. He’d been married before as well but had no children and they had a child when she was 42. She had two grown children. Another male relative married last year, his first marriage at 43.

So, your statement is overly broad and inaccurate.

But did they choose not to marry young as they knew they could have 'fun' with a lot of women first?

Are you saying to get a reasonaby pretty FSW a 7 or 8 say I would need to offer a well off life style and hence be quite wealthy?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 14, 2018, 02:32:46 AM
They didn’t marry for a variety of reasons, but it wasn’t about being male sluts.

Yes, you need money.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 02:59:19 AM
They didn’t marry for a variety of reasons, but it wasn’t about being male sluts.

Yes, you need money.

Were they ugly? :D I mean I guess even local girls want a choice and if they don't do it for them then a girl may look abroad.

How does this tie in with what BillyB says about not showing your wealth in photo's so as to avoid insincere women? They will no doubt be looking for photos of guys with wealth will they not? But as soon as do any of that, wham all the insincere women will turn up I assume.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 14, 2018, 03:13:04 AM
No, they are all handsome men, other than the husband of the female cousin who remarried. The one who just married is movie star handsome and his bride is beautiful, more than any photo I’ve seen posted here.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
Yes, you need money.

How does this tie in with what BillyB says about not showing your wealth in photo's so as to avoid insincere women? They will no doubt be looking for photos of guys with wealth will they not? But as soon as do any of that, wham all the insincere women will turn up I assume.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 14, 2018, 04:01:39 AM
How does this tie in with what BillyB says about not showing your wealth in photo's so as to avoid insincere women? They will no doubt be looking for photos of guys with wealth will they not? But as soon as do any of that, wham all the insincere women will turn up I assume.

Surprise!

I do NOT agree with BillbyB

*I* did photos showing my life and one in a DJ (tux)

As long as you are not misrepresenting...what's the issue?


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on August 14, 2018, 04:30:10 AM
I'm sure Billy meant don't use pictures of you entertaining guests in your grand ballroom, standing in front of your Zonda or sailing on your private yacht  ;)

Most of us are middle class or upper middle class. Surely you want to show an honest account of who you are and your lifestyle, so they know they won't be living in a life of poverty, living week to week? You might be turning away insincere women, but you'll probably also turn away the sincere ones also, if you look too poor.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on August 14, 2018, 04:46:05 AM
  Personally, I think the different "mindset" is overblown.  FSUW generally will care for the home almost exclusively, will do virtually all the cooking (other than outdoors), but what they want out of life is not particularly different from what WW want. 


I've felt like saying the same as Boe for a while.... Again I have no real life experience with FSU women, but I'm still dating locally and much of what I read in trip reports (good and bad), my single friends and I have experienced at home. We have had some shocking dates that make many of the FSU women with issues and red flags described here, look reasonable in comparison.

We have had much discussion on this topic over the last few years and we have conceded that one in ten women we have been on dates with, we have a great connection and are marriage material.

You find good and bad prospects where ever you look. Like all things in life, having the experience to make good choices makes it easier to be successful and dating is no different. 

I've said this a few times trench, but hone your skills at home, it will make a big difference. I'd go to back to speed dating (you have a captive woman for 5 minutes) it's a great way of meeting all sorts of personalities and practicing building rapport in a small space of time, which It's exactly what you need to master when going on a real date.

I think you'll fine guys like ML etc.... Who have achieved what we are all trying to find, were reasonably successful locally and have applied those skills when looking for a fsu  wife.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 14, 2018, 05:12:00 AM
You certainly take forum life seriously by quickly posting a response to me! Just take a step back and look at how you are never off TC's back on this forum. He certainly has some off-beat ideas about women. Remember that we are all different here! Try discussing things with TC through PMs and you will find him to be a reasonable person. Think about the reasons why you chose an Ukrainian wife over a British wife. Their mindsets are very different, and I have given TC feedback about my experiences of having an Ukrainian wife.
I was having my morning cuppa and caught your post. Just good timing, that’s all.
I think Trench brings it on himself with what and how he posts.
What you term off beat I would call serious misogyny so I guess we’ll differ on that.
I don’t think one can differentiate between women all that much. At the end of the day, they are human beings, individuals, with the needs, desires, aspirations tha any of us might have.  Trench just sees them as something to keep him happy in the bedroom dept and to give him an anchor baby or two.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 14, 2018, 06:31:39 AM
Blighty,

Thankfully, Trench knows better than to PM me, now...

I cannot concur with your appraisal, given he asked for advice via that medium and STILL 'knew better'...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 06:49:46 AM
I'm sure Billy meant don't use pictures of you entertaining guests in your grand ballroom, standing in front of your Zonda or sailing on your private yacht  ;)

Most of us are middle class or upper middle class. Surely you want to show an honest account of who you are and your lifestyle, so they know they won't be living in a life of poverty, living week to week? You might be turning away insincere women, but you'll probably also turn away the sincere ones also, if you look too poor.

Oh, I see I had a photo of me on fromy of some yachts, they were not my yachts but I was worried girls might read into it that I was with that scene and wealthy. I was wearing quite a nice shirt and sunglasses so it might have gave the wrong impression. It was the photo the last girl I was with responded to, I think it was the only one I had up at the time.

I guess I should cut it a bit under that but not too far under perhaps, so I am near the beach so perhaps a nice beach scene, etc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 06:57:50 AM
Surprise!

I do NOT agree with BillbyB

*I* did photos showing my life and one in a DJ (tux)

As long as you are nkt misrepresenting...what's the issue?

Well I don't have tux, do people wear them anymore?

I have suits, but to be honest with you I can't wear  suits all the time. In my present photos I'm on a t-shirt in one and a decent quality shirt in the other. The one where I'm in the shirt you can see my top half the other one in my t-shirt is just below the neckline. It's quite a nice t-shirt though.

So I'm guessing I should wear some nice casual gear in some as I don't want to walk around everywhere I go in a suit with the girl, lol. It could be seen as a bit weird.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 14, 2018, 07:21:30 AM
Well I don't have tux, do people wear them anymore?

Yes, people wear for certain occasions tuxedo's or so-called dinner dress.

I wonder do you even have underwear, preferably lacking skid marks?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 14, 2018, 07:47:10 AM
Oh, I see I had a photo of me on fromy of some yachts, they were not my yachts

I had one with my 'yacht' - racing in a Laser - 'action man' .... 

Most lasses want to know you are leading an active life

Trench my DJ ( Tux) still fits me after 28 years and still looks like new ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 14, 2018, 07:57:35 AM
As a postscript, I also believe it is cruel to encourage Trench to pursue a woman, as it will not end well for him.

I agree.

Trench coat, Feel free to proceed but you are both too stupid and blind for this (ad)venture.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 08:17:17 AM
I had one with my 'yacht' - racing in a Laser - 'action man' .... 

Most lasses want to know you are leading an active life

Trench my DJ ( Tux) still fits me after 28 years and still looks like new ;)

Tell me in this photo, were you way out in front beating all the kids hands down :ROFL:

We were talking about a 'proper' yacht, lol.

An active life is going out to work, they want me to do more on top of that!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 14, 2018, 08:44:01 AM
Tell me in this photo, were you way out in front beating all the kids hands down :ROFL:

It was a VERY windy day - so of course ... 

We were talking about a 'proper' yacht, lol.

You mean  a floating caravan ?

An active life is going out to work, they want me to do more on top of that!

Tellybubbie 'No-oh' ....  'they' want you to be healthy and not lead a boring life
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 14, 2018, 09:00:03 AM
I have an uncle in the UK that owns a "narrowboat" I've gone on trips with him and his family on the canals in this "vessel"
the area between Birmingham and Manchester has many old and very scenic canals that are still navigable
and so incredibly beautiful
would ABSOLUTELY use photos from this, and they would be AWESOME
and would make a BIG impact on a Russian woman in SO MANY different ways
you want to be subtle and not overstated

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 09:31:29 AM
I have an uncle in the UK that owns a "narrowboat" I've gone on trips with him and his family on the canals in this "vessel"
the area between Birmingham and Manchester has many old and very scenic canals that are still navigable
and so incredibly beautiful
would ABSOLUTELY use photos from this, and they would be AWESOME
and would make a BIG impact on a Russian woman in SO MANY different ways
you want to be subtle and not overstated

Wow, that's a wonderful idea Krimster :D you occasionally come up with such masterminds. Yes that would definately be something for me to look into. I'll be honest while I've done stuff like snowboarding in the past a lot of activities I just don't have the energy for to keep up long term. I would find it disingenuous to do it the odd few times and say 'hey this is me' on my profile when I know it's not something I regularly do or am into a lot.

While I like to experience doing new things I really need more interests with continuity. Stuff where I won't find it a drag to keep up with a lot of bother getting all prepared for it. Up to now there's just been stuff like Bowing and Cycling but they hardly sets anyone's world on fire. So I think you're suggestion is hitting the ball in right direction Krimster, I'll definately look into in :) very much appreciate.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 09:35:24 AM
It was a VERY windy day - so of course ... 

You mean  a floating caravan ?

Tellybubbie 'No-oh' ....  'they' want you to be healthy and not lead a boring life

Funny you say that, I did a taster weekend on a yacht it was very much like caravaning on water, lol. Could'nt get with all the ropes bother with it all an lurching to the sides :barf:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 14, 2018, 10:13:21 AM
Trench,

it's not about REALITY, it's about PERCEPTION of reality
you want to steer that a bit
if you're clever you can subtly create very effective images
it's about "controlling your brand", to use contemporary vernacular

you at a party with a group of friends, all of whom appear to be happy well adjusted professionals
you holding your mum's hand and giving her flowers and a kiss
you inside one of the estate mansions
you want "her" to "associate" iconic symbols with her image of YOU!
you don't have to own the 10 million pound mansion, for her to associate it with you!
create a context

also, I'm sure you're a draughtsman of some skill, you should be MUCH better than me
one of the things I always got attention for was my sketching
I've been doing it since age 3
my skill level stopped developing at around age 12
many people encouraged me to go and seek formal artistic training
I took just one art class in university, but it was art history and not about "technique"
for me the sketching is about a release it provides, and not about the art itself
but every woman who has ever known me, has asked me for some of my art
and since I throw the images away after I complete them
only too happy to give them away
my children love my little sketches for them

Pitbull, sorry, put another image here, still too lazy, post jet lag to seek out the image upload problem
here's an unfinished one I just found, under a box, scanned it for you before I threw it away
Trench, if you can do stuff like this, most women will find it interesting!!
would be easy for you IMHO to use something like this for illustration purposes for various things, children's books, architecture books, etc as well


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 14, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
...
I doubt it's a case of what's written though, I've heard that girls judge it like guys on the profile photos. At the moment I'm not getting anywhere near the 50 percent ML states, it's more like 10 percent then even most of them become lack lustre. I think I was getting more emphatic response when I replied back to girls who had contacted me first - I'm guessing because the interest was more there. However few women are contacting me now as my profile has been up there a while so would need a redo I think.....

Trenchcoat-

The prevailing negative opinion of you on this board had made you unnecessarily defensive. Consequently, as a natural reaction, whatever criticism is hurled your way only made you dug even deeper in your conviction.

You succeeded complicating what is an otherwise a very 'simple' phase of this experience. Listen to AJ, and in some respect, BillyB. They've given you *ideas* to follow that should prove helpful for your cause. If you eliminate the noise, you'd know what you need to do.

Had you spent half the time posting here and instead invested that time in your search and self, you would have been in a much better situation by now. It's become apparent your time here only molded you into an even more confused individual.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 10:57:59 AM
Trench,

it's not about REALITY, it's about PERCEPTION of reality
you want to steer that a bit
if you're clever you can subtly create very effective images
it's about "controlling your brand", to use contemporary vernacular

you at a party with a group of friends, all of whom appear to be happy well adjusted professionals
you holding your mum's hand and giving her flowers and a kiss
you inside one of the estate mansions
you want "her" to "associate" iconic symbols with her image of YOU!
you don't have to own the 10 million pound mansion, for her to associate it with you!
create a context

also, I'm sure you're a draughtsman of some skill, you should be MUCH better than me
one of the things I always got attention for was my sketching
I've been doing it since age 3
my skill level stopped developing at around age 12
many people encouraged me to go and seek formal artistic training
I took just one art class in university, but it was art history and not about "technique"
for me the sketching is about a release it provides, and not about the art itself
but every woman who has ever known me, has asked me for some of my art
and since I throw the images away after I complete them
only too happy to give them away
my children love my little sketches for them

Pitbull, sorry, put another image here, still too lazy, post jet lag to seek out the image upload problem
here's an unfinished one I just found, under a box, scanned it for you before I threw it away
Trench, if you can do stuff like this, most women will find it interesting!!
would be easy for you IMHO to use something like this for illustration purposes for various things, children's books, architecture books, etc as well

You're real good at drawing Krimster. No I don't really draw freehand af all, I'm not good at it. Instead all of my drawing is on the computer, on CAD. Even before that when on high school I chose the technical drawing option as a GCSE and drew isometric, 1 & 2 point perspective, etc with use of a ruler and pencil. That and shading I am quite good at. Yet when I go freehand it all goes to pot, stuff all out of proportion & scale, and generally a not good look. A five year old could probably draw better, lol. I've even sourced some good instructional dvds but it improved not much at all. My mother is good at drawing but my father was more into techical drawing, so I think I take after my father there. I also find I don't really have the patience for drawing freehand, it takes me sooo long.

I know what you're saying about persception, that I don't have to be fully involved to be shown doing something as a hobby. For me though I think I could do with something more interesting that could appeal to the ladies. I'd I find for me though I would be happy taking a pic inside a mansion and it's for the girl to make whatever she wishes if it when it comes to hobbies/interests I feel I really have to own it to feel happy putting it across as whom am/what I do. For example, I wouldn't feel happy putting up a photo of my yachting taster weekend from a decade or so ago  as I decided that I don't have enough free time to pursue it (a lot of learning to be done there) and I wasn't really into it as a lot of too much fuss for my liking, hoisting sails, ropes, map reading, weather reports, technical aspects, etc. So apart from the usual everyday cinema, bowing, cycling, etc that nearly everyone does I think something like you suggested could go down a treat and something I could enjoy on a regular enough basis. I think it is also something that wouldn't put off a lot of women looking as it's not too 'I'm a horse riding or extreme sport or art gallery fanatic, so a good suggestion of yours I think :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 11:09:47 AM
Trenchcoat-

The prevailing negative opinion of you on this board had made you unnecessarily defensive. Consequently, as a natural reaction, whatever criticism is hurled your way only made you dug even deeper in your conviction.

You succeeded complicating what is an otherwise a very 'simple' phase of this experience. Listen to AJ, and in some respect, BillyB. They've given you *ideas* to follow that should prove helpful for your cause. If you eliminate the noise, you'd know what you need to do.

Had you spent half the time posting here and instead invested that time in your search and self, you would have been in a much better situation by now. It's become apparent your time here only molded you into an even more confused individual.

Who's AJ?

I disagree, I cannot listen and follow BillyB's advice if I don't ask questions first. He has though given countless inspired responses both to me and other posters an do that I do truely thank him for. I have noted down many pieces of his good advice on my online notepad so as to remind myself of the direction I need to take.

Yes I could have spent a lot more time on the search rather than in here but why keep making thd same mistakes. If I'm hitting a brick wall or drumming up the wrong birds I need to know why. Once I engaged in this search I saw that I needed to understand the  culture and more importantly FSW attitudes and behaviour to avoid  relationships keep going south for the same or similar reason. I think I have only benefitted from all my time on here in terms of understanding the place and FSU dating better than when I started.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 14, 2018, 11:27:48 AM
Who's AJ?...


My bad. AJ is Jumper..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 14, 2018, 11:38:09 AM
Who's AJ?

I disagree, I cannot listen and follow BillyB's advice if I don't ask questions first. He has though given countless inspired responses both to me and other posters an do that I do truely thank him for. I have noted down many pieces of his good advice on my online notepad so as to remind myself of the direction I need to take.

Yes I could have spent a lot more time on the search rather than in here but why keep making thd same mistakes. If I'm hitting a brick wall or drumming up the wrong birds I need to know why. Once I engaged in this search I saw that I needed to understand the  culture and more importantly FSW attitudes and behaviour to avoid  relationships keep going south for the same or similar reason. I think I have only benefitted from all my time on here in terms of understanding the place and FSU dating better than when I started.
The reasons you’ve outlined are partly why you won’t succeed. There’s no set piece formula you can follow. You’re dealing with human beings. It doesn’t follow that if you do A, then B will happen.
FSUW are not a gaggle of geese forming identical patterns in the sky. Everyone will have traits unique to them.
At the end of the day, they are women, just like women everywhere.
If you don’t understand women from your own background, language and culture, failure in the FSU is guaranteed lfor you.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 14, 2018, 12:08:24 PM
trench,
   as I said earlier, I don't think you have a "small problem" but a large one, and that even if I don't understand the nature of this problem, I think maybe YOU do, but are ignoring whatever it is

100% I know lack of money is a big problem for you, and maybe that, and having a background that doesn't involve a lot of social contacts, friendships, etc might also be a big problem, I don't know, but you SHOULD know what your issues are:

I don't think you have the income to achieve your goal, if I were "in your shoes" I would NOT even set foot in Ukraine because I would feel too insecure about the costs of this venture
you are still in the beginning phase of trying to meet someone, if you do at some point become successful and meet someone your expenses are going to be EVEN HIGHER than just dating, and this person will be your fiancee/wife.  do you want to "let them down"  this would cause me massive insecurity and anxiety
you've been single all your life, you don't know what it feels like to have another human being be totally dependent on you
and unless you are very lucky, a woman from Ukraine, is not just going to come into your life and start her new job on her first day in the UK
when my wife came to the USA, she didn't know how to drive a car, didn't know how to write a cheque (did I spell it right?)
it would take the average Ukrainian woman years before she'd be able to contribute financially to your family
meanwhile it's all on you mate, are you happy with your income now, what about when you have another person to support
I don't think you appreciate the costs associated with having a wife let alone children...

we all date "aspirationally" and desire someone "out of our league"
Mea culpa, I am ONLY sexually attracted to women that I feel represent for me what is the "ideal form of feminine beauty"
but frankly, this is kind of dumb...
several times I dated gorgeous women, who were just the worst kind of person you could imagine, and the relationship ended with a LOT of fireworks
don't do this...
OTOH, have been "hit on" by women who were either in my own league or below it, and who were just the most incredibly kind, loving and talented people
but they didn't meet "my standard"
doubly dumb...

the only small town I have experience with in the UK is Whitfield outside of Bury and Rochdale
it's too tiny to meet someone there, where would you go to meet someone in Whitfield...
OTOH, in London I was ALWAYS meeting "affectionate" women and some were REAL nice!

so, if you can, move there, and start making friendships
just having friends will help you immensely, even if a woman friend doesn't find you attractive, she might be willing to pass you along to one of her friends who might
provided she felt you were "a decent chap"
when I was younger and lived on the East Coast, that is THE ONLY WAY I KNEW HOW TO DATE

just don't be dumb like I was, and turn down a woman, because you think she's too plain
look more on the inside and not on the outside
i know, I'm reading what I just wrote, and even I'm cringing at it
but you know what
IT'S TRUE

it will be just so much easier and practical to start a family with someone who is already established in the UK
than to bring a stranger here, who has zero competence within UK culture

don't think in a dumb way, like I used to Trench
be smarter and go find your wife
I think she's out there, just not in Ukraine
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 14, 2018, 12:10:43 PM
Trenchcoat-

The prevailing negative opinion of you on this board had made you unnecessarily defensive. Consequently, as a natural reaction, whatever criticism is hurled your way only made you dug even deeper in your conviction.


Trenchcoat has been pretty calm for the dog piling he's endured for 2+ years. Getting defensive when criticism is due in not healthy but I'd like to see a lot more emotion from him focused in another direction. If he gets angry where he's at in life, it may motivate him to improve it. People are less likely to move forward if they are somewhat happy where they're at.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 14, 2018, 12:38:29 PM
calmness is a very important attribute to have
and Trench is probably one of the calmest people there is on this board

but somehow, I think your sympathetic "being picked on" is really more for your own sake than for Trench
but I did find it moving...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 14, 2018, 01:34:57 PM
Funny you say that, I did a taster weekend on a yacht it was very much like caravaning on water, lol. Could'nt get with all the ropes bother with it all an lurching to the sides :barf:

Rare is the yacht that is interesting to sail - unless it can plane ( skim on the surface )

I'm at the age, where I like to race in my Laser and cruise under a tent ( Bimimi) with all the 'ropes' leading to the cockpit from where I steer and no 'ropes' to entangle SC as she sunbathes ..




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 14, 2018, 02:04:29 PM
sailing is too hard, have to deal with the keel and so forth much harder to launch
1 person is a limitation on the size of the sail
OTOH, have piloted power boats upto 50 feet in length, with no problem
I imagine the petrol bill for a boat that size would not look pretty
the 50 footer took 2 barrels of petrol for each filling - that'd probably be about 400 pounds

when I was younger owned 2 small sailboats the largest was 26 ft, not exactly Cunard Line material
but it was big enough to sleep 4, had a head and a galley, and I could sail it all by myself, even launch it all by myself
but that was then, this is now, would love to have a small boat, will have to wait and see where we'll move next
my wife and I are planning on a Rhine trip in the future, from Amsterdam to Geneva
and would love to take her on a canal cruise in the UK, she'd love it
perfectly safe I told her, if the boat's sinking, just pole it over to the side, might take 3 seconds, and jump off!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 14, 2018, 03:36:33 PM
"I'm at the age,"

yeah me to, not as much fun as when I was younger
I think going on friend's boats, renting is more my style now
I have a friend with a "basic" catamaran, no cabin, just a "trampoline"
we "fly" on that thing, fun but I don't want to own one

amazing boating experience in Amsterdam 2 months ago
they have autonomous self driving canal boats!
only 4 so far, and big line
insert credit card, select route and go
was an AMAZING experience
company claims to be expanding it based on early success of this "pilot"  :) version
if I end up living in Amsterdam a few years from now, I can see myself doing this once a month in good weather
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 14, 2018, 04:18:45 PM
...<snip>
Yes I could have spent a lot more time on the search rather than in here but why keep making thd same mistakes. If I'm hitting a brick wall or drumming up the wrong birds I need to know why. Once I engaged in this search I saw that I needed to understand the  culture and more importantly FSW attitudes and behaviour to avoid  relationships keep going south for the same or similar reason. I think I have only benefitted from all my time on here in terms of understanding the place and FSU dating better than when I started.

You did noticed I used the word *ideas* and not advice. John Gaunt's point in the ensuing post above clearly clarified why.

Not to discourage you, but this stage of your search is the easiest, and the most fun, especially because of the available tools at your disposal we didn't have before.

Spend more time on yourself. Not here.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 14, 2018, 04:20:07 PM
Trenchcoat has been pretty calm for the dog piling he's endured for 2+ years. Getting defensive when criticism is due in not healthy but I'd like to see a lot more emotion from him focused in another direction. If he gets angry where he's at in life, it may motivate him to improve it. People are less likely to move forward if they are somewhat happy where they're at.

Surely. But as with everything else in life, there's always the prevailing point of diminishing return.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 05:17:12 PM
You did noticed I used the word *ideas* and not advice. John Gaunt's point in the ensuing post above clearly clarified why.

Not to discourage you, but this stage of your search is the easiest, and the most fun, especially because of the available tools at your disposal we didn't have before.

Spend more time on yourself. Not here.

This I intend to do now, Krimster etc have kindly provided me with the sort of direction I need. I see now that the more sincere FSW are after a lifestyle rather than merely wealth. If it looks like you can provide a nice lifestyle then their motivation to communicate is likely to be higher. So if I can show photos of a nice lifestyle then that is something they can buy into.

Well with the tools available today, it's a twk edged sword, yes they can be more fun - stuff like Whatsapp can make it more fun sometimes, video chat can be good fun or pure awkwardneas depending on how you get on. Main thing though is that every new dating device development tends to bring in a new ball game. Sometimes the old ball game can still work but often it takes some adapting to the new dating environment that it tends to create I find.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 14, 2018, 05:28:14 PM
89 pages later and you are still missing the point.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 05:31:50 PM
Rare is the yacht that is interesting to sail - unless it can plane ( skim on the surface )

I'm at the age, where I like to race in my Laser and cruise under a tent ( Bimimi) with all the 'ropes' leading to the cockpit from where I steer and no 'ropes' to entangle SC as she sunbathes ..

Well the Instructor guy on our yacht was getting it at quite a pitch, almost like those competition yachts you see on TV where they are all hanging off one side of it. It seemed like somewhere towards a 45 degree pitch. Also we narrowly avoided this huge metal life buoy he turned it at the very last moment again at a steep pitch. I was sure we were going to hit it and steeled myself for the seemingly enviable impact, must have only just cleared it by milimeters. On another occassion he seemed to be aiming the boat towards the concrete Quay wall before pitching it again. I kind of got the impression it was more for his joy than ours. He made is do the ropes all manually and it was quite confusing which coloured rope to pull there was so many scattered around.

To be honest the best bit was when the boat was under power of motor and we didn't have to bother with all the fuss of sails & ropes, it kind of took the fun out of the boat moving '?- just too much to have to deal with to be able to relax at all. Prior to the experience I thought sail boats looked all relaxing and tranquil but it proved anything but.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 14, 2018, 05:32:22 PM
89 pages later and you are still missing the point.

Which is?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 14, 2018, 05:54:02 PM
"Quay"???

you Brits, you mean a wharf, not a "key" used to wonder what Brits were talking about a key for
yeah your sailing description reminds me of when I had my girl friend on my boat and had a spontaneous race with another larger boat
when I was doing some aggressive tacking, she made me stop!!!

here's my old boat

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=758

Trench, did you read my earlier post about finances, and a Ukrainian vrs British spouse?
what are your thoughts

you are either up very early or very late!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 15, 2018, 01:07:26 AM
Like dating, Trench doesn't 'get' sailing ;))

You were sailing a keel boat and I doubt it was over at 45 degrees ... 

Metal buoys ( pron: boys not booeys !) mark channels and aren't life buoys ..

If you don't understand the point of tacking to windward - the changes of course will seem bizarre and 'pointless' ... they are the most rewarding and exciting part of the race for me !

Krimster:  You spend enough time on the right ( in more ways than one [ :D ] side of the pond to know that quay is the 'correct' term ;)



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 15, 2018, 01:27:12 AM
89 pages later and you are still missing the point.
Which is?

Trenchcoat, You could not follow an IKEA instructions booklet in a flat pack.

Dear Trench I am more or less convinced you have some autistic spectrum issue. This does make your search is impossible but you need to understand both the challenges and ramifications. In fact beginning a relationship will be a challenge because women in the fSU will not understand your issues. Add to this a parenting issue on your side that failed you miserably.

Certainly based on your prior interactions and perceptions you are socially deficient by any average metric. Perhaps close to home are 'coaches' who can assist you, the problem will be when you translate these skills to the former Soviet Union.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 15, 2018, 01:46:16 AM
Well the Instructor guy on our yacht was getting it at quite a pitch, . . . .Prior to the experience I thought sail boats looked all relaxing and tranquil but it proved anything but.

Truly you do not get it.

 :cluebat: 


If there was a barn and I met you, I would take you behind it and give you a proper whomping.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 01:59:20 AM
If you don't understand the point of tacking to windward - the changes of course will seem bizarre and 'pointless' ... they are the most rewarding and exciting part of the race for me !

We're not talking about your little boys boat here we're taking a more complicated affair, thinks lot more ropes and a heavy boom swinging acroas to smack you in your gob - yes I know many posters on here would love to see that. I see the point of it all to get the best line, catch the wind ag the best time to get ahead faster. Not fir me though I think, I'm very much a straight ahead sort of guy without so much fuss.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 15, 2018, 02:20:25 AM
STUPID ALERT!

We're not talking about your little boys boat here we're taking a more complicated affair, thinks lot more ropes and a heavy boom swinging acroas to smack you in your gob - yes I know many posters on here would love to see that. I see the point of it all to get the best line, catch the wind ag the best time to get ahead faster. Not fir me though I think, I'm very much a straight ahead sort of guy without so much fuss.



It does matter what size the vessel is. The principles do not change.

For what it is worth you 'do not catch the wind'


Not fir me though I think, I'm very much a straight ahead sort of guy without so much fuss.

Here in lies your fundamental challenge - you simply do not get it. Whether a relationship or an activity. You think it should be straight forward and clear of fog or rough seas.

Sorry to clue you, life does not work the way you perceive it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 04:02:05 AM
BdHvA

I discovered Veerle Baetens when I was in Amsterdam, and the Dutch Country Western music scene
no idea of its existence
not a country western fan except for HER and a few others, her voice is amazing
Dutch speakers have trouble with the English word "gather"
for Germans it's "squirrel"

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 15, 2018, 04:30:08 AM
Which is?


Not creating a false image.  You have to be who you are. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 15, 2018, 04:38:44 AM
Trenchcoat, You could not follow an IKEA instructions booklet in a flat pack.

Dear Trench I am more or less convinced you have some autistic spectrum issue. This does make your search is impossible but you need to understand both the challenges and ramifications. In fact beginning a relationship will be a challenge because women in the fSU will not understand your issues. Add to this a parenting issue on your side that failed you miserably.

Certainly based on your prior interactions and perceptions you are socially deficient by any average metric. Perhaps close to home are 'coaches' who can assist you, the problem will be when you translate these skills to the former Soviet Union.

Good Luck!



Totally agree  - Trench is a typical aspie or high functioning autist. It is not only relationships with women and women in general that he "doesn't get" - he does not get relationships with humans, period. Hence his miserable career or rather lack thereof. People skills are extremely important in professional life as well, especially when getting into a management position. I am convinced Trench does not have male friends either or any deep meaningful relationship with a human being really.


He does a desire a woman, but not as a companion, soul mate and a friend - but rather as an object to fulfill his needs, with 3 functions, which comes with a one-page user instruction, like a toaster. This is how non-neurotypical minds work, and this is why even those who have relatively high IQ cannot manage a career or a relationship.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 05:23:09 AM
“Trench is a typical aspie or high functioning autist.”


Pitbull, there is NO such thing as “a typical aspie” we’re ALL different!
I have been in “mixed” therapy sessions over the years and as a result have had a LOT of contact with others “on the spectrum”  every single one had a unique experience

I am not sure if Trench is on the spectrum or not, I don’t know your background, but I’ve had a lot of contact with people on the spectrum, I would ONLY know for sure, if I met him in person, it’s a POSSIBILITY, is all I can say...
and it’s why I want to try and HELP him and not HURT him



“Hence his miserable career or rather lack thereof.”
I used to live and work in “Silicon Valley” which extends from San Francisco to San Jose, CA
you would be surprised how many successful autistic people there are there, Steve Jobs at Apple being just one example, Silicon Valley was/is a magnet for people on the spectrum for obvious reasons, I am fortunate “my talent” and interests led me there, otherwise I would have had Trench’s life

“This is how non-neurotypical minds work, and this is why even those who have relatively high IQ cannot manage a career or a relationship.

Steve Jobs co-founded a trillion dollar company, my highest position was Vice President of Engineering of a Fortune 500 company before I became self-employed, which was obviously a better fit for me, I’ve been successfully/happily married for almost 19 yr, and I have the greatest relationship with my children, would not change a single detail in my family life except I wish it would last longer before my kids leave for school

with the proper support, someone on the spectrum can be just as socially adaptive as someone who isn’t.  there has been TREMENDOUS progress on this since I was a child

so Pitbull, on one hand you seem to have "some" familiarity with the subject, but based on your "attitude" even I can tell you're NOT involved on the therapeutic side
oh wait, forgot you're Russian, sorry, from a Russian perspective, you're freakin Mother Teresa, surprised there isn't a statue to you somewhere there extolling your kindness to others

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on August 15, 2018, 05:39:11 AM
“Trench is a typical aspie or high functioning autist.”


Pitbull, there is NO such thing as “a typical aspie” we’re ALL different!
I have been in “mixed” therapy sessions over the years and as a result have had a LOT of contact with others “on the spectrum”  every single one had a unique experience

I am not sure if Trench is on the spectrum or not, I don’t know your background, but I’ve had a lot of contact with people on the spectrum, I would ONLY know for sure, if I met him in person, it’s a POSSIBILITY, is all I can say...
and it’s why I want to try and HELP him and not HURT him



“Hence his miserable career or rather lack thereof.”
I used to live and work in “Silicon Valley” which extends from San Francisco to San Jose, CA
you would be surprised how many successful autistic people there are there, Steve Jobs at Apple being just one example, Silicon Valley was/is a magnet for people on the spectrum for obvious reasons, I am fortunate “my talent” and interests led me there, otherwise I would have had Trench’s life

“This is how non-neurotypical minds work, and this is why even those who have relatively high IQ cannot manage a career or a relationship.

Steve Jobs co-founded a trillion dollar company, my highest position was Vice President of Engineering of a Fortune 500 company before I became self-employed, which was obviously a better fit for me, I’ve been successfully/happily married for almost 19 yr, and I have the greatest relationship with my children, would not change a single detail in my family life except I wish it would last longer before my kids leave for school

with the proper support, someone on the spectrum can be just as socially adaptive as someone who isn’t.  there has been TREMENDOUS progress on this since I was a child

so Pitbull, on one hand you seem to have "some" familiarity with the subject, but based on your "attitude" even I can tell you're NOT involved on the therapeutic side
oh wait, forgot you're Russian, sorry, from a Russian perspective, you're freakin Mother Teresa, surprised there isn't a statue to you somewhere there extolling your kindness to others


I have a lot of experience and knowledge in the area, and you might have been misdiagnosed anyway. There are a number of disorders that have some similar traits with autism but are not the same.


Trench's most affected area and utmost deficit lies in the area of social interaction. I do not believe Steve Jobs was officially diagnosed even though he displayed some autistic traits. There is a lot of gray area on the higher end of the spectrum. Anyway he would be an exception. I have seen lot of aspies with higher IQ who could never hold a job or cope with a relationship - this is the norm, not Steve Jobs. Trench has written enough here to see clearly that he is on the spectrum, and has not received therapy.


Oh wait, you are an American, therefore you think you are the best and have the most knowledge by definition, no matter hoe limited and pigheaded.

And please - go tell someone else about your "happy marriage" ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 06:02:25 AM

Not creating a false image.  You have to be who you are.

Oh good, I was afraid you were going to say wealthy then ;D

Yeah, that's the thing that I mean with hobbies/interests that I want them to be something that is a part of me not something I did once but don't really have the mprivation for it. So canal boats sounds something more up my street :) So worth me looking into.

I'm sure you also mean all stuff in my life in general. In all honesty dome of the girls in the past may have got an overstated view off my situation. This was not to deliberately dupe them but because I needed to give a cohesive picture of who I am. I know from what the likes of DK have put here in the past that if you give a fragmented lifestyle it us difficult for the girls to understand or believe who you are. As I'm a guy that is on the move, trying to move forward in life it tends to be difficult to give an overall idea to the girl of who I am without not being totally accurate. I never seek to lie to a girl for the sake of deliberately trying to dupe her into thinking I am someone that I am not even vaguely.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 06:13:14 AM
“I have a lot of experience and knowledge in the area, and you might have been misdiagnosed anyway.”

maybe, the extant of my diagnosis did change from childhood to adulthood, but that was because of the HUGE increase in medical/scientific knowledge in this area, it was very PRIMITIVE when I was a kid.  however I received my diagnosis from 2 psychiatrists, and your qualifications?

I have been diagnosed with Level I, I have met and had friendships with people with Asperger’s both of whom had childhood epilepsy, thankfully not among my symptoms
also one of the people I met in therapy, was a trans-sexual, we explored the connection in therapy between being on the spectrum and being confused about gender, if I hadn’t participated in that, I would never have known about this connection

Level II autism seems like a completely different disease to me, these people truly are disabled

“There are a number of disorders that have some similar traits with autism but are not the same.”

hence the term “spectrum” also autism has many comorbid symptoms, I have the anxiety among other things, I have huge anxiety, I worry about the most ridiculous things and become fixated

the first thing therapy taught me to do was to control my external symptoms, repetitive behaviors, like counting aloud mathematical patterns, I DID NOT know that other people found this annoying, and was disturbed when they would display anger and irritation, I thought that people’s basic nature was meanness, but it’s not, right Pitbull?

I draw as a way of controlling my physical symptoms, as long as I draw pictures, my external symptoms are usually under control, if my family is not around I sometimes “count” and do other things. 

out of my sense of curiosity, how did you acquire your “experience and knowledge”
which gulag was it?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 06:14:34 AM
Trench, please read my post earlier about Ukraine vrs British wife, and your thoughts?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 10:20:47 AM
Trench, please read my post earlier about Ukraine vrs British wife, and your thoughts?

I know British women would have a number of easier stuff to deal with. Every British guy knows that. Hence why there is such heavy competition particularly for the better ones. I'm not a guy who is gifted on social stuff. If one came up who seemed reasonable and into me I would go for her.

The fact of the matter is that there is sooo much competition. Even the girls with numerous mental problems get a fair bit of interest. Match is full of girls with lots of mental problems and fatties and even they are inundated with guys and difficult to get a look in, lol.

I recall someone saying about the situation in the US a few posts back, think it was Davo, that even FSW that are a bit bonkers are still ways better than all the mental issues a lot of US chicks have. Well it's the same here. Even official statistics have noticed the huge rise in mental health problems in British women, way more than men and that is at the sharper end of the scale.  I think there are a lot of mental health problems that are undiagnosed in women and a lot if these show up on dating sites like Match as they struggle in relationships, particularly with men.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 10:35:45 AM
Kind of finding with one girl I have been talking too recently a fair big of apathy about whether it is possible to meet your other half online. I originally took this as she was not that interested in me but seems she had just gotten lathargic of all the messaging plus she doesnt know English well.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 15, 2018, 10:38:51 AM
I know British women would have a number of easier stuff to deal with. Every British guy knows that. Hence why there is such heavy competition particularly for the better ones. I'm not a guy who is gifted on social stuff. If one came up who seemed reasonable and into me I would go for her.

The fact of the matter is that there is sooo much competition. Even the girls with numerous mental problems get a fair bit of interest. Match is full of girls with lots of mental problems and fatties and even they are inundated with guys and difficult to get a look in, lol.

I recall someone saying about the situation in the US a few posts back, think it was Davo, that even FSW that are a bit bonkers are still ways better than all the mental issues a lot of US chicks have. Well it's the same here. Even official statistics have noticed the huge rise in mental health problems in British women, way more than men and that is at the sharper end of the scale.  I think there are a lot of mental health problems that are undiagnosed in women and a lot if these show up on dating sites like Match as they struggle in relationships, particularly with men.



Uuuuuuuurghh.  :wallbash:

Where to start?
When you write stuff like this it chrystallises the reasons why you won’t succeed with women, not just FSU women.

Ever considered who has the mental issues here, Trench? Cause it isn’t the women......
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 15, 2018, 10:44:17 AM
<snip?
saying about the situation in the US a few posts back, think it was Davo, that even FSW that are a bit bonkers are still ways better than all the mental issues a lot of US chicks have. Well it's the same here. Even official statistics have noticed the huge rise in mental health problems in British women, way more than men and that is at the sharper end of the scale.  I think there are a lot of mental health problems that are undiagnosed in women and a lot if these show up on dating sites like Match as they struggle in relationships, particularly with men.

LMAO! I can't help but be reminded of this commercial:


http://youtu.be/3DZbSlkFoSU

I hope you now see and realize one of the reason why you should spend less time here, and in the internet altogether.

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 10:53:52 AM
Trench, you will find this in Ukraine as well, PTSD related IMHO

but I think you are VASTLY underestimating the amount of money you need, and maybe are in denial, don't want to think about it
your UA fiancee/spouse will be solely dependent on you for a LONG period of time, A British woman, will likely AT LEAST be your financial equal from DAY ONE

another aspect to consider
I have no idea how the fiancee/marriage visa process works in the UK, but in the USA from the time she sets foot in the USA, they give you a generous 90 days, 90 days!
to see if the two of you want to get married

wouldn't you like to take a LITTLE more time than that before making such a big decision?

I'm going to call your village Whitfield, since it's the only UK village I know well
it'd be REAL difficult for me to find a partner in Whitfield
OTOH, London - no problem, they might as well be two different universes
seriously, why not relocate there

I spent about 20,000 USD on my wedding and that was nearly 20 yr ago, it'd probably be double that today, and it was very modest
I also knew people who did it as cheaply as possible, just went to the courthouse registered for a marriage license and were out 10 min later and paid what maybe $50
guess which "marriage" feels better for the woman, even if it means nothing to you
some women have been fantasizing about this since they were a child
how will your wife feel if she WANTS a nice celebratory wedding something special, but has to settle for a quick trip to the courthouse because of financial constraints
do you think they might feel some disappointment in the courthouse

Trench, EVERYONE has had bad dating experiences, EVERYONE
but don't let it become a way to rationalize that the women there are NO good
i've met women in London I would've happily married, they're there!!!
but as I said, doubt I'd find someone in Whitfield

if you have problems with socializing with women in UK it will also happen with women from Ukraine
it's not all THEM, in America we have an old saying, "it takes two to tango"
at least with UK women you don't have a cultural/language barrier on top

with a UK woman, you can take your time, date, live together and THEN see if you want to get married
do you see what I'm saying

let's pretend for a moment the women were identical in appearance, but one was Ukrainian and one was from London
which one will be less difficult





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 15, 2018, 11:39:51 AM
Trench, you will find this in Ukraine as well, PTSD related IMHO

but I think you are VASTLY underestimating the amount of money you need, and maybe are in denial, don't want to think about it
your UA fiancee/spouse will be solely dependent on you for a LONG period of time, A British woman, will likely AT LEAST be your financial equal from DAY ONE

another aspect to consider
I have no idea how the fiancee/marriage visa process works in the UK, but in the USA from the time she sets foot in the USA, they give you a generous 90 days, 90 days!
to see if the two of you want to get married

wouldn't you like to take a LITTLE more time than that before making such a big decision?

I'm going to call your village Whitfield, since it's the only UK village I know well
it'd be REAL difficult for me to find a partner in Whitfield
OTOH, London - no problem, they might as well be two different universes
seriously, why not relocate there

I spent about 20,000 USD on my wedding and that was nearly 20 yr ago, it'd probably be double that today, and it was very modest
I also knew people who did it as cheaply as possible, just went to the courthouse registered for a marriage license and were out 10 min later and paid what maybe $50
guess which "marriage" feels better for the woman, even if it means nothing to you
some women have been fantasizing about this since they were a child
how will your wife feel if she WANTS a nice celebratory wedding something special, but has to settle for a quick trip to the courthouse because of financial constraints
do you think they might feel some disappointment in the courthouse

Trench, EVERYONE has had bad dating experiences, EVERYONE
but don't let it become a way to rationalize that the women there are NO good
i've met women in London I would've happily married, they're there!!!
but as I said, doubt I'd find someone in Whitfield

if you have problems with socializing with women in UK it will also happen with women from Ukraine
it's not all THEM, in America we have an old saying, "it takes two to tango"
at least with UK women you don't have a cultural/language barrier on top

with a UK woman, you can take your time, date, live together and THEN see if you want to get married
do you see what I'm saying

let's pretend for a moment the women were identical in appearance, but one was Ukrainian and one was from London
which one will be less difficult
You’re wasting your time, Krim. Trench is fixated on FSU women. He thinks they’re the answer to his problems, he’ll be able to control them, won’t cost him much, pop out a sprog or two on demand, be his personal washerupcookercleanerupbedroomslave...you get the picture.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 12:04:50 PM
I WAS like him
only saw my error afterwards

I can only TRY to help him
maybe later he will think about it
and have his moment of Zen

whenever, I meet a man on the road
and that man is in trouble
then that man becomes my brother
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 15, 2018, 12:07:37 PM
I WAS like him
only saw my error afterwards

I can only TRY to help him
maybe later he will think about it
and have his moment of Zen

whenever, I meet a man on the road
and that man is in trouble
then that man becomes my brother
Trench isn’t in trouble...he is trouble.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 12:20:49 PM
Trench, you will find this in Ukraine as well, PTSD related IMHO

but I think you are VASTLY underestimating the amount of money you need, and maybe are in denial, don't want to think about it
your UA fiancee/spouse will be solely dependent on you for a LONG period of time, A British woman, will likely AT LEAST be your financial equal from DAY ONE

another aspect to consider
I have no idea how the fiancee/marriage visa process works in the UK, but in the USA from the time she sets foot in the USA, they give you a generous 90 days, 90 days!
to see if the two of you want to get married

wouldn't you like to take a LITTLE more time than that before making such a big decision?

I'm going to call your village Whitfield, since it's the only UK village I know well
it'd be REAL difficult for me to find a partner in Whitfield
OTOH, London - no problem, they might as well be two different universes
seriously, why not relocate there

I spent about 20,000 USD on my wedding and that was nearly 20 yr ago, it'd probably be double that today, and it was very modest
I also knew people who did it as cheaply as possible, just went to the courthouse registered for a marriage license and were out 10 min later and paid what maybe $50
guess which "marriage" feels better for the woman, even if it means nothing to you
some women have been fantasizing about this since they were a child
how will your wife feel if she WANTS a nice celebratory wedding something special, but has to settle for a quick trip to the courthouse because of financial constraints
do you think they might feel some disappointment in the courthouse

Trench, EVERYONE has had bad dating experiences, EVERYONE
but don't let it become a way to rationalize that the women there are NO good
i've met women in London I would've happily married, they're there!!!
but as I said, doubt I'd find someone in Whitfield

if you have problems with socializing with women in UK it will also happen with women from Ukraine
it's not all THEM, in America we have an old saying, "it takes two to tango"
at least with UK women you don't have a cultural/language barrier on top

with a UK woman, you can take your time, date, live together and THEN see if you want to get married
do you see what I'm saying

let's pretend for a moment the women were identical in appearance, but one was Ukrainian and one was from London
which one will be less difficult

Yes a British girl would be my financial equal, could have time to date and get to know each other better - but that is looking at the practicalast positives. The quality of the girl on offer unless you are real lucky is poor. If a guy chose wisely and was able to get a girl while young in his mid to late teens & early twenties then he could have a good one. What us left by the time a guy reaches his thirties well on the internet is not good. On stuff like speed dating the quality appears better 'but' those girls are their because they are too picky on not compromisin on what they as looking for. Most want a real socially able guy hence why most of the time usually none of thd guys gets picked.

Practicalities of dating abroad I can get around, particularly now that I am more familiar with the nature of the beast. Some stuff that may appear disadvantages on dating a foreign girl can actually turn out to be an advantage to me.

Here in the UK there are now many options with weddings, you don't have to go for a registry office or a church, you also don't need an after ceremony big nosh up. When my sister got married second time around she had just the very immediate family and if anything it was way better than the big nosh up with circa 70 odd guests she had first time around. Everyone enjoyed it more, could relax more and it costed a lot less. Still a nice venue but much more personal affair. A lot of the trouble is in the west we have been rolled into have a big state wedding every time someone gets married, it not needed. By the end of the day the wedding couple are exhausted and many account too tired to even have sex on their wedding night. I don't see the point on wasting a ton of money on just a one day event just because society has socialised people to do this. Many I think now are turning towards more personal affairs at a reasonable cost and still getting a decent quality wedding out of it. It really doesn't have to cost 20k to avoid a bland boring courthouse or registery office and have a nice post ceremony celebration some where nice on a small scale.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BC on August 15, 2018, 12:37:01 PM
I don't see the point on wasting a ton of money on just a one day event just because society has socialised people to do this. Many I think now are turning towards more personal affairs at a reasonable cost and still getting a decent quality wedding out of it. It really doesn't have to cost 20k to avoid a bland boring courthouse or registery office and have a nice post ceremony celebration some where nice on a small scale.

Been to a FSU wedding?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 01:00:16 PM
Been to a FSU wedding?

No I've heard this and that. Generally that it's a good idea to get married in the FSU as weddings can be had at a bargain price in most instances. So yes you could have a wedding there for let's say 5k that would cost 20k here. Krimster J assume was talking a boutique a western wedding which can be a bug profiteerin exercise mostly by grand hotels.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 01:35:35 PM
Trench

as I said earlier, “we all date aspirationally”, and desire someone, “out of our league”
I think you need to stop thinking this way and be “realistic”

I put the part about the wedding to illustrate just one of many possible costs that you will incur once you “found somone”

money wan’t a major issue for me when I was single, I never spent a lot of money on myself, I was unusually frugal compared to my peers, but I had to change my savings habits and learn not to swallow hard when my wife “needed” money for clothes, money for school, money for her family, money for ...”  you get my point

the biggest fear I’ve had about being a husband or father, is “disappointing” my family in some way, if my wife EVER had to accept something “lesser” that it might lead to her to feeling disappointed, this would DESTROY me

I have a lot of anxiety about disappointing my wife or children
I think, deep down, that I feel that I don’t deserve someone like my wife, I admire her more than I admire ANY other human being I ever met
I am so afraid that one day she is going to think that I’m not good enough for her
and if I ever produce some major disappointment, then THAT will be the day
have you ever had this feeling Trench?

you are totally discounting the financial aspect of this, and I think it IS an insurmountable obstacle, I hope you see it NOW, before it leads to a “crack-up” money being #1 cause of divorce, etc

I just don’t see you being successful in the kind of relationship where your spouse is going to be 100% dependent on you and EXPECTS to have a more or less conventional/normal relationship without her feeling some measure of disappointment

instead of reaching for the stars Trench, stay closer to Earth

in America we have a saying, “two can live as cheaply as one”, find a roommate with benefits and THEN tie the knot

I think you will be better off with someone with a similar background as you
as shakespeare said, “above all to thy ownself be true”
this has many meanings for you Trench


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 15, 2018, 02:08:23 PM
Been to a FSU wedding?

 :ROFL:


BC -- you have been absent in threads for much of the TC ignorance --  and you only need to read his reply to your post to see that he simply does not "get" any of this ! :deadhorse: ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 02:17:00 PM
Been to a FSU wedding?

weirdest one I ever went to was the one when they were collecting the “dowry” or cash wedding gifts which was being collected in a paper bag in the front of the church, when suddenly, from out of nowhere, the mother-in-law does a “tight-end” full run, grabs the bag of money and heads full speed out the door!!
half the church heads out in pursuit, they finally catch up with her give her a flying tackle and retrieve the money, the whole time I’m standing there with my mouth hanging open
it went down hill from there
ahhh good times
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 15, 2018, 02:24:31 PM
The cash is not a dowry. It’s still common at Ukrainian weddings in the West, as well. But that’s a funny story. MIL probably didn’t like the bride.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 02:47:29 PM
Been to a FSU wedding?

weirdest one I ever went to was the one when they were collecting the “dowry” or cash wedding gifts which was being collected in a paper bag in the front of the church, when suddenly, from out of nowhere, the mother-in-law does a “tight-end” full run, grabs the bag of money and heads full speed out the door!!
half the church heads out in pursuit, they finally catch up with her give her a flying tackle and retrieve the money, the whole time I’m standing there with my mouth hanging open
it went down hill from there
ahhh good times

That's a pretty hilarious story Krimster I was LMAO :D

Yeah, I'm coming to learn that the FSU is a pretty wacked out sort of place at times. Same with the way FSW can behave in a wacked out sort of way. I've kind of decided now not to care too much when bizzare stuff occurs. In a way 'expect the unexpected' as the saying goes.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 02:49:33 PM
hey BO

yeah, I never heard the russian word for this
have seen this tradition in greek weddings as well

sometimes truly weird things happen there
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 03:04:06 PM

I put the part about the wedding to illustrate just one of many possible costs that you will incur once you “found somone”

money wan’t a major issue for me when I was single, I never spent a lot of money on myself, I was unusually frugal compared to my peers, but I had to change my savings habits and learn not to swallow hard when my wife “needed” money for clothes, money for school, money for her family, money for ...”  you get my point

I know what you mean, when I was with the last girl we had a talk and she left me in no doubt I would be stumping the cost for everything alone. That her clothing spending was only the start of it and She didn't care if I spent all my time at work that is what I do. At her spend frequency I doubt if I would ever come home, lol. Still it did help to focus me on what I'm getting myself into with potentially any girl. Sure some will have a lesser spend frequency on clothes (hopefully) but in pretty much all cases I will be paying for two, then with children three or four, etc.

Like you say each time thd request for this or that is made it can bite particularly when they don't seem to realise it's all adding up/the cost of it all. However, I think with a girl on a reasonable spend frequency I can do it. I don't have a mortgage and my other costs are quite low.

So it's really a case of relaxing about it all and just taking the financial hammering and letting it take its impact. I accept now that I will have to do this to get the job done.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 03:29:55 PM
So yeah, got a girl up at the moment, if she follows through ok she could be worth a weekend visit. She seems reasonable in her expectations and quite attractive looking, I guess a good 7 or so and I'm happy with that. She into similar stuff to me, looks like she may want to do surfing sometime and that's not a problem for me in terms of outlay - a wetsuit and a few lessons where they provide the board. Course she may or may not like it and I would off course give it a try also. Odds are if it didn't take there may he other stuff she would want to try so so long as it's not outrageously expensive I would be willing to foot the bill once we were in a proper relationship/marriage of course.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 03:46:55 PM
surf?  where will you surf?
surely not black sea, only times I've seen anything close to "curl" conditions is in a once every 10 yr storm
or are you talking UK?  watch out for rocky coastline, get a good sandy beach
kids and I do what's called "boogy-boarding" a cheap 10 dollar piece of coated styrofoam that you lay on top of
and you don't have to worry about getting vertical just how to stay on top of the wave and glide along
stuff like that is great for a date
make sure she has flip flops/sandals
later she'll have sore feet, foot massage might help

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 04:01:02 PM
surf?  where will you surf?
surely not black sea, only times I've seen anything close to "curl" conditions is in a once every 10 yr storm
or are you talking UK?  watch out for rocky coastline, get a good sandy beach
kids and I do what's called "boogy-boarding" a cheap 10 dollar piece of coated styrofoam that you lay on top of
and you don't have to worry about getting vertical just how to stay on top of the wave and glide along
stuff like that is great for a date
make sure she has flip flops/sandals
later she'll have sore feet, foot massage might help

Yeah, used to do the stryrofoam boogie boarding when on holiday on Newquay in Cornwall when younger. It was good fun, could do it in Bournemouth also I guess which is a nice place. Waves never really get that big at all but it's enough to make either boogie or surf board go. Might be worth doing the boggie board thing first as cheaper and like you say could see the standing up thing a problem. Think a lot of stuff can seem idealic until you try it and then they only turn out idealic for some that are suited for it. Yeah might be worth doing the cheaper end of stuff first as who knows if the girl wants to try a load of stuff it will probably add up a fair bit.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 04:06:17 PM
now you're thinking mate!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 15, 2018, 05:15:44 PM
surf?  where will you surf?
surely not black sea, only times I've seen anything close to "curl" conditions is in a once every 10 yr storm
or are you talking UK?  watch out for rocky coastline, get a good sandy beach
kids and I do what's called "boogy-boarding" a cheap 10 dollar piece of coated styrofoam that you lay on top of
and you don't have to worry about getting vertical just how to stay on top of the wave and glide along


Have gone a couple times windsurfing on the Black Sea. Julia was impressed, I was only one to get out into to open water. The others gave up and sort of drifted back, but I selected a slightly smaller sail, both times. It seemed the wind was stronger off shore.

On the South Coast of the UK there are zero waves, or if they exist they are 'thumpers'.

There might be along what I call the West Coast of Ireland (Caribbean facing coastline) some bights or coves that might have workable waves.

My strong suspicion Trench is spouting Trenchy BS.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on August 15, 2018, 06:07:33 PM
surf?  where will you surf?
surely not black sea, only times I've seen anything close to "curl" conditions is in a once every 10 yr storm
or are you talking UK?  watch out for rocky coastline, get a good sandy beach
kids and I do what's called "boogy-boarding" a cheap 10 dollar piece of coated styrofoam that you lay on top of
and you don't have to worry about getting vertical just how to stay on top of the wave and glide along
stuff like that is great for a date
make sure she has flip flops/sandals
later she'll have sore feet, foot massage might help

I surfed a lot in my youth and have got back into it lately. I was lucky to grow up in a region that has some of the best surf in the world, and also unlucky to have the biggest sharks (lost two mates over the years, surfing and diving) .... My local bombie

http://youtu.be/hxRGfZEkwu8

One of the first things I asked the woman I'm chatting with, was regarding surfing in the black sea. There are a few surf spots in Ukraine (Radostniy has 2.5 foot swell today), southern Russia and Turkey, but nothing to get too excited about. Looking at pictures it's probably good for beginners on a long board.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 06:36:42 PM
dunno if you 'strine speakers know who Mark Foo was
I watched him surf when I used to live in Monterey, CA
he died I think 2 yr after I watched him at Big Sur
he was WAY, WAY above any thing I ever aspired to
he looked like a little speck skiing down a mountain
my style was Ocean City, Maryland, 10 ft max
but for me THAT was a lot of fun
only once did I ever have the board hit me on the head in a "wipeout"
lesson learned
after that ALWAYS wore an ankle leash

where I lived in Krim, no waves at all except after a big storm
but great diving and NO SHARKS and excellent visibility - AND scallops!!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo2 on August 15, 2018, 07:04:52 PM
I've watched many videos of Mark and the whole pioneering Mavericks crew. Pretty sad and a big loss to all surfers around the world.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 15, 2018, 07:22:44 PM
Trench,

on wanting only the “hot” woman

judge not least you be the one who is judged
for with what judgment YOU judge, you shall also BE judged
and what mercy you give to others, shall also be given to you
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 15, 2018, 08:07:24 PM
shore.

On the South Coast of the UK there are zero waves, or if they exist they are 'thumpers'.


Hmm, You should tell this to the folks of ( example ) Fistral Beach, Newquay in Cornwall

"Newquay is famous for the Boardmasters surfing championships, held at Fistral Beach, which attract competitors from all over the world. " [ source:http://www.cornwalls.co.uk/Newquay ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/cornwall/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9123000/9123614.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/cornwall/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9123000/9123614.stm)






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 15, 2018, 09:59:00 PM
Hmm, You should tell this to the folks of ( example ) Fistral Beach, Newquay in Cornwall

"Newquay is famous for the Boardmasters surfing championships, held at Fistral Beach, which attract competitors from all over the world. " [ source:http://www.cornwalls.co.uk/Newquay ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/cornwall/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9123000/9123614.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/cornwall/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9123000/9123614.stm)

How obstinate (and dishonest) can you be?

They are talking of limited surfing during storms in the winter. Go ahead give it a try today.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 15, 2018, 10:20:46 PM
I surfed a lot in my youth and have got back into it lately. I was lucky to grow up in a region that has some of the best surf in the world, and also unlucky to have the biggest sharks (lost two mates over the years, surfing and diving) .... My local bombie..

Hhhmm..surfers.

Lived most of my life no further than a half mile from a beach. Became a goofy footer too.

Davo-

Maverick's a beast! The only great shelf in Kali. Bang on cojones! SoCal, mostly, and with respects to HB, doesn't see much double overheads though but with occasional barrels. There are some choice spots for shredders but for the most part, like Old Man's in OC, mostly fun to hang ten.

We'd have to trek down to SD, if not south of the border back in the days just to chase consistent sets - schoolyard was tops. But the boys down south are fairly territorial. They aren't too cool for *outside litters*.

I'm mostly a long boarder now, if I even get out at all. I tried to teach wifey when she first got here, even had my bruddah cut her her own board, but it just never panned out. She digs boogie boarding but would never paddle out to point with me again. She said she almost drowned the first time she went through the wash. Instead she'd just waddle out waist high to the white wash and hop on. Besides, she hated the fins and she couldn't quite get the hang how to properly do a duck dive. So she'd always end up with a mouthful of OP. I also kept telling her never to walk face out with fins on but she'd shun it altogether or toss them over by the shore. Did my time with the boogie. As surfers, we call them speed bumps.

I liked boogie boarding when we get that late afteroon sets. I'd kill a couple hours easy before the sun goes down. Enough sets for a few El-rollos and 360s. Eliminator with side rails. They don't make them anymore.

I agree too that 2.5 footers, Trench, or any beginner, will be better off with the LB. His height (6') will serve him well with a 12'er. Maybe they have those massive tandem boards, like they use in Waikiki to teach the tourists. When I took my wife and family to Hawaii, I signed them up for lessons. They had a blast but it looked ugly. FIL was like a child lost in funville. MIL, like wifey, enjoys boogie boarding. Not sure if you call it that the way they do it. They all saw the pipeline and really loved the culture and the beaches of north shore.

If Trench went with this gal, and went boogie boarding instead, they won't have sore feet, but rather blown shoulders. Paddling will be the toughest part. They'll be better served paddle boarding. Not tough to do if they have a good sense of balance.

OZ, yeah, surf heaven.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 15, 2018, 10:29:01 PM
Have gone a couple times windsurfing on the Black Sea. Julia was impressed, I was only one to get out into to open water. The others gave up and sort of drifted back, but I selected a slightly smaller sail, both times. It seemed the wind was stronger off shore..

Windsurfing is fun! I never got good at it to get crazy. Altogether different philosophy than surfing. I made the mistake of trying it the first time in Kihei. Dead on tradewinds central. Bad idea. I thought I'd die the next day with a very sore lower back.

Windsurfing's a dying sport where we are though. Some still do in Malibu and I think up in Sta. Barbara. It's been replaced by kite surfing. Which really looks like a blast. Some guys even do this on blacktops, or huge vacant parking lots.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 15, 2018, 11:56:19 PM
Trench,

on wanting only the “hot” woman

judge not least you be the one who is judged
for with what judgment YOU judge, you shall also BE judged
and what mercy you give to others, shall also be given to you

Well I'm not a religious type but I think that is part of the problem of why I have not been getting a strong response. I'm kind of now wary of going for hot chicks anywhere near the 9 or 10. Yet it gets sooo tempting :P

At the same time I find I also need to be genuinely into the girl. She doesn't have to be a model but usually I find she tends to need something nice visually about here even of she is not that attractive but I find has an edgy look to her. In all honesty though I couldn't go for a girl who I genuinely didn't feel I would be at all into on a visual front though as I don't think my thing would happen between us. So it's a difficult one, but yes a 7 is probably a more comfortable fit with me as like I said before I'm no model myself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BC on August 16, 2018, 12:41:39 AM

BC -- you have been absent in threads for much of the TC ignorance --  and you only need to read his reply to your post to see that he simply does not "get" any of this ! :deadhorse: ;D

Oh, no worries didn't take much reading at all to get the drift.  Was just a poke to provoke a bit of thought.. but instead the hole just got dug deeper.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 16, 2018, 01:42:41 AM
now you're thinking mate!!

Nope -- his brain is in neutral- no thinking there !

TC  & thinking = oxymoron
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 16, 2018, 04:06:30 AM
How obstinate (and dishonest) can you be?

You are addressing your mirror..



They are talking of limited surfing during storms in the winter. Go ahead give it a try today.

As a sailor you'd know the prevailing wind is SW in Cornwall and strong winds are not confined to winter...

Here's a web cam from Fistral beach:

http://magicseaweed.com/Live-Newquay-Fistral-Webcam/3/ (http://magicseaweed.com/Live-Newquay-Fistral-Webcam/3/)



It's a shame that a gentleman like your good-self cannot simply admit : "Moby, you were right - I apologise "


BdHvA

It is noted you declined to point  out ANY dishonesty of mine with examples  - forgetting you aren't protected from posting daft , here - the last time you suggested same.. 

What does that infer ?



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 04:21:01 AM
Trench

i'm an atheist, I think my massaged version of Matthew 7 1 relates directly to the kind of thinking that I feel is holding you back

while you're judging a woman, is she a 7 or an 8...
YOU yourself are being judged, it's a two-way street (do drive on the correct side)
but if you show compassion, that compassion may be returned

think about this and have your moment of Zen


also, about London, does London turn you off for some reason?  not a familiar environment, too chaotic, too many people?

I LOVE the east-end accent

me main man sanjit and me was at iz gran's

I would talk this way ALL the time, but therapist says "no..."

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: rwd123 on August 16, 2018, 05:35:32 AM
but if you show compassion, that compassion may be returned
The best thing to do in life, is to give without expectation of receiving anything in return - a buddhist-like detachment. The act of service to others.

Sometimes the universe will be kind to you and give you something back. When it does, boy it can be most satisfying.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 05:55:16 AM
word...

he who has ears may listen...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 16, 2018, 06:46:38 AM
Trench

i'm an atheist, I think my massaged version of Matthew 7 1 relates directly to the kind of thinking that I feel is holding you back

while you're judging a woman, is she a 7 or an 8...
YOU yourself are being judged, it's a two-way street (do drive on the correct side)
but if you show compassion, that compassion may be returned

think about this and have your moment of Zen


also, about London, does London turn you off for some reason?  not a familiar environment, too chaotic, too many people?

I LOVE the east-end accent

me main man sanjit and me was at iz gran's

I would talk this way ALL the time, but therapist says "no..."
Nobody talks like that in the East End.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 06:48:38 AM
i'm not spellin it right surely!

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 16, 2018, 07:09:01 AM
i'm not spellin it right surely!

The Awful Sound of London (http://youtu.be/9Z8JqutRWrs)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 08:00:59 AM
yeah, thaz right, thaz wha i said izznt it

LOVE IT!!!  THANKS FOR THAT!!!
will be listening to it over and over today
every time I go to London I meet girls like her
c'mon Trench what's wrong with this lass
theyz everywhere in London, just go into a sainsbury you'll probably see a dozen
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 08:10:28 AM
multi-cultural english, jafaican
yes love it, even the body language that goes with it
didn't know it was called that, I guess folks is like polite with me
never heard actual cockney except in movies
at least with multi-cultural english, a foreigner can follow easily
but cockney, no way
my family has a very soft Rochdale accent
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 16, 2018, 08:27:15 AM
multi-cultural english, jafaican
yes love it, even the body language that goes with it
didn't know it was called that, I guess folks is like polite with me
never heard actual cockney except in movies
at least with multi-cultural english, a foreigner can follow easily
but cockney, no way
my family has a very soft Rochdale accent
I’ll stick with RP, thanks.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 08:35:56 AM
quite...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 16, 2018, 01:07:33 PM
Well to be honest I'm not really into marking girls as 7, 8, 10 but it's the easiest way to express how things are I guess. I know they are probably roughly ratung me. This is the big problem of online dating that you often need to just get your foot in the door I'm finding, keep on casual stuff you can't be judge on too much early on and once they get to know you they tend to drop the rating stuff somewhat, no doubt like we do unless you really start to disappoint I think.

Well on the London East End accent Krim I think you have it more sounding like a black or muslim type of guy tends to talk - I find a lot of the way they talk tends to get mistaken for east end accent perhaps even by themselves if they have grown up on London.

I was originally born in Maidstone and grew up there for a number of years before my family moved to the South Coast of England. It's just a little east outside of London but still in the county of Kent where East London is and I guess the heart of the East London/Cockney accent. My English teacher in High School told me I have an accent similar to an East London accent. Similar in that both the East London accent and the Maidstone/Kentish accent there is a tendency for the speaker to drop the 't' of a lit of the words he or she pronounces. Not so much if the word starts with a 't' so they would say 'rain' instead of 'train' lol or they wouldn't be understood by many people at all but instead words with 't' in the middle or at the end wit the 't' ending up a soft 't' you ba rely if at all hear. So 'ain't' might be pronounced 'ain' or the word 'critter' would likely be pronounced crit..er with less emphasis on the 't'.

For years I used to have people come up and know exactly where I was from just from hearing me speak. Not a lot but occasionally and I could be miles away from any where near London or the county of Kent.

I have an Uncle that has lived in the East End all his life and he never uses any Cockney slang, he probably knows some but I think it's something that has grown up recently. I don't think a lot of genuine East Enders speak it as tradition it's more of just a fun thing that has come along the way I think.

I'm not sure if I have a Kent accent now, I've lived away from the area so long I've probably lost it a fair bit, I have had anyone say anything in years so probably less noticeable now if at all. Main thing I think if you are going to try and fake the accent I think is too not overdo it and try too hard. I find it is almost a dead give away if someone is too deliberate in their emphasis of it, they really talk if up a lot more than they should - a lot of blacks/Muslims living in London may do this to sound more London than they actually are. So you've got to relax when doing it, less is more as they say. So not too much pointed emphasis on words you drop the 't' on like 'ain't'. Just say whatever the sentence is in one flowing motion with pretty much the same pitch and tone throughout, then you'll come off as proper cockney ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 01:14:12 PM
I know Kent well!
used to sit on a roof and watch the ships
talk about architecture!!!!

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 16, 2018, 01:20:33 PM
I know Kent well!
used to sit on a roof and watch the ships
talk about architecture!!!!

They have some pretty towns & villages in Kent and off course all the Oast houses are lovely, many of which have been converted to dwellings now.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 16, 2018, 01:24:34 PM


I was originally born in Maidstone

My best mate of 47 years lives there and I reckon you live in Hants / Dorset, now  - no need to confirm - which is scary given my youngest lives there :)))

She is 19 and her b/f of two years is of the same age group ....   

Sort of blows your notion that good looking Brit lasses would be looking for a 'rich' guy with a car and house ... :D


(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1799/44077404271_309036a6c9.jpg)

..and NO ..I'm not worried about anyone trying to find her ..even sting23 ..as it's an image SHE posted
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 01:52:06 PM
WOW! what an absolutely LOVELY girl!!!!!!!!
a true English "rose"
I assume in University....
and that she takes after her mother appearance wise  :)

I bet she has a personality to match her appearance
i remove my hat and curtsy...
don't worry, 19 is too old for you know who....
(seriously, did he post another cemetery story, any good?)

trench, if you have an east end accent and NOT "RP" that could be a problem!!!
I know that some people are VERY judgemental about that, some are in my family
look at John Gaunt above...
if you're from Kent, wouldn't you have southern UK English, I've heard this accent and it sounds fine even for the judgemental types
but an east end accent would NOT be fine

never heard the term multi-cultural English accent or Jaflacan (which I assume is derogatory, hope I just didn't say the "N" word for the UK

but it's what i've heard spoken in London, seems to be a generational thing, only younger people speak this
and I'm pretty sure back in the 70s it didn't sound this way at ALL!!

I like this accent, it just seems to flow for me...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 16, 2018, 02:07:56 PM
Well to be honest I'm not really into marking girls as 7, 8, 10 but it's the easiest way to express how things are I guess. I know they are probably roughly ratung me. This is the big problem of online dating that you often need to just get your foot in the door I'm finding, keep on casual stuff you can't be judge on too much early on and once they get to know you they tend to drop the rating stuff somewhat, no doubt like we do unless you really start to disappoint I think.

Well on the London East End accent Krim I think you have it more sounding like a black or muslim type of guy tends to talk - I find a lot of the way they talk tends to get mistaken for east end accent perhaps even by themselves if they have grown up on London.
It’s called the MLE accent- a fusion of African, Asian, East End. More cultural enrichment.....
Quote
I was originally born in Maidstone and grew up there for a number of years before my family moved to the South Coast of England. It's just a little east outside of London but still in the county of Kent where East London is and I guess the heart of the East London/Cockney accent. My English teacher in High School told me I have an accent similar to an East London accent. Similar in that both the East London accent and the Maidstone/Kentish accent there is a tendency for the speaker to drop the 't' of a lit of the words he or she pronounces. Not so much if the word starts with a 't' so they would say 'rain' instead of 'train' lol or they wouldn't be understood by many people at all but instead words with 't' in the middle or at the end wit the 't' ending up a soft 't' you ba rely if at all hear. So 'ain't' might be pronounced 'ain' or the word 'critter' would likely be pronounced crit..er with less emphasis on the 't'.

For years I used to have people come up and know exactly where I was from just from hearing me speak. Not a lot but occasionally and I could be miles away from any where near London or the county of Kent.

I have an Uncle that has lived in the East End all his life and he never uses any Cockney slang, he probably knows some but I think it's something that has grown up recently. I don't think a lot of genuine East Enders speak it as tradition it's more of just a fun thing that has come along the way I think.

I'm not sure if I have a Kent accent now, I've lived away from the area so long I've probably lost it a fair bit, I have had anyone say anything in years so probably less noticeable now if at all. Main thing I think if you are going to try and fake the accent I think is too not overdo it and try too hard. I find it is almost a dead give away if someone is too deliberate in their emphasis of it, they really talk if up a lot more than they should - a lot of blacks/Muslims living in London may do this to sound more London than they actually are. So you've got to relax when doing it, less is more as they say. So not too much pointed emphasis on words you drop the 't' on like 'ain't'. Just say whatever the sentence is in one flowing motion with pretty much the same pitch and tone throughout, then you'll come off as proper cockney ;)
That doesn’t make sense. South Coast is Brighton way, east of London you’re talking Dartford/Gravesend, both s**t holes, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 16, 2018, 02:14:19 PM
WOW! what an absolutely LOVELY girl!!!!!!!!
a true English "rose"
I assume in University....
and that she takes after her mother appearance wise  :)

I bet she has a personality to match her appearance
i remove my hat and curtsy...
don't worry, 19 is too old for you know who....
(seriously, did he post another cemetery story, any good?)

trench, if you have an east end accent and NOT "RP" that could be a problem!!!
I know that some people are VERY judgemental about that, some are in my family
look at John Gaunt above...

if you're from Kent, wouldn't you have southern UK English, I've heard this accent and it sounds fine even for the judgemental types
but an east end accent would NOT be fine

never heard the term multi-cultural English accent or Jaflacan (which I assume is derogatory, hope I just didn't say the "N" word for the UK

but it's what i've heard spoken in London, seems to be a generational thing, only younger people speak this
and I'm pretty sure back in the 70s it didn't sound this way at ALL!!

I like this accent, it just seems to flow for me...
Of course, people are judgemental. About everything, your clothes, shoes, appearance, accent. We don’t go around sniffing arseholes like dogs do so our visual and audio clues give us the information we need about the people we encounter.

Trench’s accent is the least of his problems, I suspect know.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 16, 2018, 02:24:12 PM
WOW! what an absolutely LOVELY girl!!!!!!!!
a true English "rose"

Her Dad's parentage Irish .. her Ma's 50 percent Irish - so the 'English' part is only 25 % ))

I assume in University....
and that she takes after her mother appearance wise  :)

Ha !  I wish ..  Her older sis is the academic .. #2 has her Mum's biz acumen and looks ... ?  Pretty much mostly Ma ..

I bet she has a personality to match her appearance

Feisty.. opinionated, confident and prone to shock from the earliest age...   )




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 05:33:33 PM
please don't tell me that on top of how beautiful she is,  that she also has an Irish accent, that would be overkill!
unfair to all other women
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 05:39:45 PM
“We don’t go around sniffing arseholes like dogs do”

well...
on second thought, never mind....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 05:49:41 PM
John,

embrace the world John, it's the only one you have...

however, if you like the good ole days, you can always move to Essex
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 16, 2018, 06:10:30 PM
Jay & Moby,

Get a tent, bring vaseline.

Go to Cornwall, today or tomorrow.

"You guys can be tent mates, tell all of RWD about all the great rides you had.

Av
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 08:00:41 PM
"Get a tent, bring vaseline."

what is it you had in mind?  :o
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 16, 2018, 08:58:05 PM
please don't tell me that on top of how beautiful she is,  that she also has an Irish accent, that would be overkill!
unfair to all other women

My first wife was Irish. (Passed away)
An amazing women everyone loved.
I fell for her in about a day..lol granted she felt the same so we never really parted after that first meeting ,love at first sight and all that. It does occur.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 09:10:23 PM
very sorry for your loss, I don't want to imagine what that must feel like


"love at first sight and all that. It does occur."

yes, yes, and it's one of life's most beautiful experiences
not everyone gets to share it, world would be such a better place if they did
thank you for reminding me how precious life is, and how transitory...
but now I has the sadz and should go play with the dog to feel better
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 16, 2018, 09:26:56 PM
Jay & Moby,

Get a tent, bring vaseline.

Go to Cornwall, today or tomorrow.

"You guys can be tent mates, tell all of RWD about all the great rides you had.

Av

Is that aimed at me?   Or the J in John Gaunt?
No idea what that post is about.

I did not comment on the surfing issue in the expectation that someone would actually know something about it !  It seems the answer was a NO !!

There is quite a lot of surfing in the UK  -- some years ago I recall seeing --particularly in Wales -- and I saw surfing gear being sold in many stores that I attended in relation to my more specific interests. There are also UK surfing mags and a UK surf industry.
I know of many places that surfing is very real in UK.


The 15 Best Surfing Destinations in the United Kingdom

When we think of great surfing destinations, most of us think Hawaii, Bali, Australia, Portugal or something along those lines, right? A place where the sun is shining pretty much all the time, the weather is never too cold and the scenery is nothing short of amazing. But did you know that the United Kingdom is also an awesome surf destination?

It is home to hundreds of surf beaches, even though the weather may not be to everyone’s liking. Did you know that it is not summer, but autumn, when the best waves can be caught in the UK? BookSurfCamps presents 15 of the best surfing destinations in the United Kingdom so that all the surfers out there will know which way to head this autumn!

http://www.booksurfcamps.com/news/best-surfing-destinations-uk

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 16, 2018, 10:20:46 PM
Jay & Moby,

Get a tent, bring vaseline.

Go to Cornwall, today or tomorrow.

"You guys can be tent mates, tell all of RWD about all the great rides you had.

Av

I presume our BdHvA is referring to surf boards ... ?     

He's not been too good at reading responses to his rather ignorant posts :popcorn:

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 16, 2018, 10:24:43 PM
please don't tell me that on top of how beautiful she is,  that she also has an Irish accent, that would be overkill!
unfair to all other women

))  No Irish accent .. born in England ... but a Francophile and living it up in Paris, right now
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 16, 2018, 10:39:54 PM
Is that aimed at me?   Or the J in John Gaunt?
No idea what that post is about.

Our BdHvA does seem somewhat confused, recently - doesn't he ?




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 16, 2018, 10:48:23 PM
wow! 19 yr old and living in Paris, wow!!!
and of course you can hop on the eurostar and visit


I had a short term contract in Toulouse, Republique Francaise
probably 10% of the employees in "aerospace alley" were young brits
I thought they had the most AMAZING life, bi-lingual, urbane, spent their holidays on the Côte d'Azur or skiing in the alps
not bad for middle class kids fresh out of university
and your country gave this up...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 16, 2018, 11:15:18 PM
wow! 19 yr old and living in Paris, wow!!!

on her holidays ( vacation ) !


and your country gave this up...

Don't mention the 'B' word ... at least they can be Irish and retain all the good of an EU passport and the Irish will never need a Visa for the UK
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 17, 2018, 12:24:53 AM
My best mate of 47 years lives there and I reckon you live in Hants / Dorset, now  - no need to confirm - which is scary given my youngest lives there :)))

She is 19 and her b/f of two years is of the same age group ....   

Sort of blows your notion that good looking Brit lasses would be looking for a 'rich' guy with a car and house ... :D


(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1799/44077404271_309036a6c9.jpg)

..and NO ..I'm not worried about anyone trying to find her ..even sting23 ..as it's an image SHE posted

Pretty girl, Bournemouth Uni student perhaps?

Well if it's not money then she's probably gone fir a Mr Personality type of guy, a bit 'in crowdy'.

Let me guess, she posted the photo on Instagram ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 17, 2018, 12:31:14 AM
Pretty girl, Bournemouth Uni student perhaps?

Well if it's not money then she's probably gone fir a Mr Personality type of guy, a bit 'in crowdy'.

Let me guess, she posted the photo on Instagram ;D

A fail on all counts - What ARE you good at ? (( The photo was promoting her biz

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 17, 2018, 12:43:10 AM
A fail on all counts - What ARE you good at ? (( The photo was promoting her biz

Which is?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 17, 2018, 12:51:44 AM
Which is?

Bearing in mind your proximity - keep guessing
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 17, 2018, 03:47:03 AM
My first wife was Irish. (Passed away)
An amazing women everyone loved.
I fell for her in about a day..lol granted she felt the same so we never really parted after that first meeting ,love at first sight and all that. It does occur.

Dear AJ/Jumper

The sad thing is I fell in love with my 'Irish' wife the first time I saw her, too - but I found it hard to love her when she became pregnant and the mood swings ...  we lasted 10 years - but only stayed to be with the kids ... ((

It was better for them for us to live separate lives


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 17, 2018, 04:23:13 AM
“We don’t go around sniffing arseholes like dogs do”

well...
on second thought, never mind....
:welcome:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 17, 2018, 05:15:01 AM
trench,
   as I said earlier, I don't think you have a "small problem" but a large one, and that even if I don't understand the nature of this problem, I think maybe YOU do, but are ignoring whatever it is

100% I know lack of money is a big problem for you . .

I think she's out there, just not in Ukraine

An FSUW willing to move abroad has a specific type of personality.  If she didn't, she would not have the ability (I mean psychologically)  to move abroad.  I think this, in particular, is why this quest is not for Trench.  Such women will want to work, and typically are quite ambitious.  Those that are willing to stay at home usually have husbands who are relatively wealthy, and can provide them the finer things in life. 

When I think of the FSUW who posted here, some ended up with really great careers, some worked alongside their husbands in their husbands' businesses, and a few did not work, but they all married rather wealthy men, and chose to make their husbands' six figure careers a priority for the family.  When I think of the FSUW I know personally, all of them work, even those who never had to.  One woman I know, who had a coveted position in the FSU, works as a custodian, although her husband had tons of money, and she didn't have to work.  She wanted to work.  He was retired, and drove her to work daily.  She couldn't really find another position, as she doesn't speak English well, and never bothered to learn.  Her husband would have sent her children in the FSU money monthly, but she wanted to do so, and she was bored sitting at home.  Her husband passed away recently, and she still works, taking the bus over an hour each way, because she doesn't want to sit at home, although she has a paid for home, her late husband's pension, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings at her disposal.

So, I don't think the "personality" of such FSUW will be for Trench.  He doesn't want a "go getter", and certainly, such a woman, or even one who stays home, will demand he make a far better salary than he does currently.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 05:50:02 AM
agree with what you say...

but the FSU has a LOT of personality types and not only the one you've described
I don't know if you've ever seen any of the "mismatched" couples of Ukrainian Woman/Western Man like I have
where you just scratch your head and probably have a puzzled look on your face, and these relationships have a DIFFERENT dynamic
but the odds of finding "one of these" is much less than finding what you describe (my wife's one of those)

it's hard for me to penetrate Trench's opaqueness, Trench to me is the opposite of the noted story teller BillyB
BillyB is VERY transparent to me, I find it hard to understand Trench, and for me that's UNUSUAL
I have a feeling that there is something else "going on" besides finances
it's just too difficult to "see" through an RWD lens

all of my experience validates what you say, that Ukraine is not at all the right place for Trench, unless he wants to "play"
but the hour glass is emptying...
according to a survey, men reach their peak of desirability at age 40, I believe Trench's current age
therefor going forward, Trench will have even less of a chance...

my experience in the UK, you HAVE to be in a big city, this MAXIMIZES your opportunity
for a 100 different reasons, I feel that this is the better choice for Trench

my inadequate explanation of not judging and showing compassion, and in return not being judged and receiving compassion, is important but not understood by Trench




 


 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 17, 2018, 05:55:30 AM
Yes, there are a lot of personality types in all countries.  However, those that are willing to leave everything known behind, to move to a new country, alone, have specific personality traits.  The only ones I know of who don't are girls, usually youngish, who were talked into marriage by their mothers.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 06:08:11 AM
"The only ones I know of who don't are girls, usually youngish, who were talked into marriage by their mothers.
Report to moderator  "

add to that women whose circumstances and life experiences in Ukraine would make you cry...
that's the other type I see...
and they are more common than one would think (or not, it's Ukraine after all)
would not advise Trench to marry one of these, most but not all are damaged, and it would be hard for any spouse to cope
but I have seen these relationships work
where two cripples who can not stand by themselves, somehow are able to stand by holding on to each other...
it's rare, but it sometimes does happen

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 17, 2018, 06:12:51 AM
Yes, but it is unlikely such women are on dating sites.

I would add, I am just stating my view based on years of observation.  But in the end, Trench has to do what he believes is right for him.  It is usually the risks we don't take that haunt us, however, if he is going to embark on this, he needs to be looser with the cash.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 06:25:09 AM
msmob

love Oxford, I designed a chip for a company in Cambridge called ANT Communications
spent some time there...thatched roofs...what happens if there's a fire???
used to take the bus back and forth between Oxford and Cambridge, passed the river i've seen in films for the "oxford/cambridge rowing contest"
normally buses don't allow you a good look at the scenery
but with this bus, I usually had my face glued to the window

did you live in Yorkshire up North, didja eat the puddin?
my daughter's learned to make Yorkshire pudding, it has no influence on the size of her allowance  ;)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 06:35:07 AM
"...but it is unlikely such women are on dating sites."


Yes, VERY unlikely they'd be on a dating site, abused people don't have the confidence, and are more fearful



"however, if he is going to embark on this, he needs to be looser with the cash."

money, or the lack of it, is a SHOWSTOPPER, as far as I am concerned, Trench and I are very different
for me the anxiety that I might disappoint my spouse, would be overpowering
I don't think Trench feels this...


"It is usually the risks we don't take that haunt us"

was this statement spawned by something you've read about, or personal experience?
i'm all ooshkie...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 17, 2018, 06:50:46 AM
I generally don't regret things, as I believe everything happens for a reason.  I do regret not taking a government job when I had the opportunity.  The work would not have been as interesting as what I was exposed to, it was litigation oriented, but it would have given me more free time.  But, I have met a lot of fascinating people in my work that I otherwise would not have ever met, so I guess this was my path.


I know lots of people who regret paths they didn't choose.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 07:18:36 AM
my similar regret, when my "time was up" in the military, they dangled a "plum" in front of me
if I "re-upped" they would send me to the "Defense Language Institute" at the Presidio of Monterey, California and I could pick whatever language I wanted
at the time, it was considered the best 2nd language learning institution in the USA
but, I'd have to pull 4 more years, I said "no thanks"
in 1992, I ended up meeting Gorbachev and Raisa at this very place, which was hosting a fundraiser for Gorbachev's foundation
I sat across from an elderly Russian man, who was Stalin's English translator!!!

I think if I had picked Mandarin, I probably would have ended up eventually moving to China and being a permanent resident there
one of the potential career moves for my daughter, was law, she's bi-lingual Russian/English, I thought someone like her with a specialization in Russian/American finance
would be in great demand in the future
glad she rejected this, cuz look where that's going!!!!



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 17, 2018, 08:25:09 AM

love Oxford, I designed a chip for a company in Cambridge called ANT Communications

Have only heard of a Slough based Co. of that name - HATED living in Oxford ..if you aren't part of the academic scene ....

used to take the bus back and forth between Oxford and Cambridge, passed the river i've seen in films for the "oxford/cambridge rowing contest"

??

As that's in London - don't know how ? ;)

The Service is now the X5 - used to involve two bused in my day .. One to Bedford - then change for Cambridge

did you live in Yorkshire up North, didja eat the puddin?
my daughter's learned to make Yorkshire pudding, it has no influence on the size of her allowance  ;)

It is a national 'dish' ... :)))

If your thatch roof catches fire - better hope you're insured
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 17, 2018, 08:30:20 AM
If your thatch roof catches fire - better hope you're insured

In the Netherlands it is becoming difficult to insure thatched roofs, what is the reality in the UK?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 08:32:12 AM
t'was awhile back, I think "ANT" was bought or something

that wasn't the river!  it sure looked like it to me, and I saw some rowers out there, and it looked like the PERFECT spot

the thatched roof seemed odd to me in what would otherwise be a conventional looking house

makes sense to split up the ride, don't remember how long it was, maybe 2 hour?
but a REALLY nice ride
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 17, 2018, 09:00:31 AM
3 hrs 40 mins

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/plan-a-journey (http://www.stagecoachbus.com/plan-a-journey)  Enter Oxford and Cambridge ! 

Used to be nearly 3 hours to Bedford from O'ford and another 1hr 40 to Cambridge
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 17, 2018, 09:03:17 AM
In the Netherlands it is becoming difficult to insure thatched roofs, what is the reality in the UK?

Even an 'ass' could find that answer ( quoting your description of me  ;D )  ....

Now anytime you can prove where I've misled or fibbed - or you could be a good chap and admit that you know you posted bollox

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 17, 2018, 09:06:43 AM
prove where I've misled or fibbed -


You're living in la la land if you don't think you mislead or lie. Almost every time you talk about American politics is a good place to start.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 09:17:51 AM
it's possible that when I bought tickets, that I got a "bus transfer"
the memory of the ticket purchase vastly overshadowed by the scenery (last time was 15 yr ago)

I think it was the last stop at oxford, there was a "Georgain" looking building with some 18th century(?) gravestones in front, all right outside the window
no way my American University would have graves in front of one of the admin buildings in the campus, unexpected and unique


in the USA we have strict "building codes" thatched roofs are illegal
why do people choose this, esthetics, tradition?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 17, 2018, 09:31:57 AM
Bearing in mind your proximity - keep guessing

Beautician.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 17, 2018, 09:38:35 AM
Beautician.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the advice of earlier ... 'keep guessing' [ not a bad guess - she did study in that field ]
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 09:41:02 AM
i'm going to guess something "sales" related
in the usa a lot of beautiful women go into sales
probably most lucrative here would be pharmaceuticals and selling to doctors/hospitals
they're all beautiful young women
a strange coincidence, idn't
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 17, 2018, 09:48:06 AM
You're living in la la land if you don't think you mislead or lie. Almost every time you talk about American politics is a good place to start.


Poor Silly BillyB - unlike you - I understand the difference between an informed opinion and what you post ...

Said 'gentleman' is probably hoping for help from someone - if you feel you can 'help' him - amuse us  :ROFL:



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 17, 2018, 10:28:14 AM
I refer the honourable gentleman to the advice of earlier ... 'keep guessing' [ not a bad guess - she did study in that field ]

Indeed it is overly popular with girls in the UK, especially around here, lol. Yes I will think about it and keep guessing :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 17, 2018, 10:31:18 AM
agree with what you say...

but the FSU has a LOT of personality types and not only the one you've described
I don't know if you've ever seen any of the "mismatched" couples of Ukrainian Woman/Western Man like I have
where you just scratch your head and probably have a puzzled look on your face, and these relationships have a DIFFERENT dynamic
but the odds of finding "one of these" is much less than finding what you describe (my wife's one of those)

it's hard for me to penetrate Trench's opaqueness, Trench to me is the opposite of the noted story teller BillyB
BillyB is VERY transparent to me, I find it hard to understand Trench, and for me that's UNUSUAL
I have a feeling that there is something else "going on" besides finances
it's just too difficult to "see" through an RWD lens

all of my experience validates what you say, that Ukraine is not at all the right place for Trench, unless he wants to "play"
but the hour glass is emptying...
according to a survey, men reach their peak of desirability at age 40, I believe Trench's current age
therefor going forward, Trench will have even less of a chance...

my experience in the UK, you HAVE to be in a big city, this MAXIMIZES your opportunity
for a 100 different reasons, I feel that this is the better choice for Trench

my inadequate explanation of not judging and showing compassion, and in return not being judged and receiving compassion, is important but not understood by Trench

Honestly, this may sound crazy but the only other thought I have is that I may get more joy from US girls than UK girls. Despite he westernisation/feminisation problem I see it less marked in the US ( depneing on area/state). I think my status as a foreigner/Brit would help me out. I kind of like the soft female American accent also, don't like the fat ones though :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 11:12:01 AM
Trench,

British men are HUGE in the USA
just don't know how you'd live here long term
and you'd HAVE to live in New York City, where you'd have the largest population

but back to financial issues again
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 17, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
Trench,

British men are HUGE in the USA
just don't know how you'd live here long term
and you'd HAVE to live in New York City, where you'd have the largest population

but back to financial issues again

Always problems, everywhere.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BC on August 17, 2018, 02:00:35 PM
Trench,

The chances of finding someone and 'making it' long term are very slim.  From wannabee to a decade or more of marriage probably something like flipping a coin 10 times in a row and getting all heads.  I personally think that looking for a FSUW for marriage carries worse odds than not looking for one. Chances are much greater for a happy long term marriage just dating at home.

Of course if one is not dating at home all bets are off regardless which plane you board.

IMHO it's a rather hopeless, expensive venture for most.

Just give up the FSUW 'thing', get off the couch, enjoy life and you'll probably find a great mate that might even come from those parts of the world.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 17, 2018, 02:46:43 PM
Always problems, everywhere.

Plenty of general  differences in regions within the USA.
But overall your accent alone would draw initial interest most anywhere here.

Still the key would remain to be out and about, leading your life (not on a couch) ,meeting people, and open to talking to people, and not just ones you want to date.
Basically just like in the UK, or the FSU.

I met my first wife from talking to a uk woman I had zero romantic interest in. (Nor was she interested romantically in me) was just a chat, right place right time. Her friend walked up, she introduced us.
Honestly I was struck by a lot of things about her,but only a brief  exchange and i had to go. Never thought much more about it.However the woman I was initially talking to ,knew a mutual friend, and got my number from him ,becaise she knew her friend was really interested and she thought I was a good guy.
I got a call out of the blue, and we hit it off,
 years later a child (who's a young man now ,with his mothers eyes and personality)
So you just never know,but yoiu have to be out there, and open to a genuine relationship (which includes initial trust until.proven wrong)

  I'm not saying you shouldn't search, I'm saying dont put a normal active life on hold for it.Like BC mentioned your odds of meeting someone during daily routine are greater,
But I'd add you need to have a bit of an active life.
If you don't have one,or really interact with people. Then sure, , doing almost anything else, including this silly search ,would increase anyones odds.

Just remember to be open to possibilities
(Note that looking for ways someone might use you is nit being open)

You may meet a great UK lass , at the airport and example.
 So I commend you getting out there,because it certainly  beats doing nothing!
Just doint forget you could meet someone,anywhere,, doing almost anything, something as simple as walking/hiking etc.

That said I used to meet a lot of people thru both work and hobbies.
I also choose certain jobs for travel because I like to.
I made a lot of concious decisions to take various positions,some I wasnt truly qualified for but had a pretty relentless determination to make it regardless at whatever I put my hand to.a
The pay was very seldom a determining factor ,and likely because of my cavalier attitude towards material stuff,women never seemed to notice my lack of it lol or more accurately only  ones with a similar  outlook would be interested right? Chicken or the egg,debate.

Anyway
  It's up to you,its your life, you seem to be reaching for something,  most all of us are.

As always I wish you good luck!

Just try very hard to keep in mind there's always another person in relationships;)
They will.have things they are reaching for, emotionally,spiritually, financially, etc etc
You have to actually genuinelruly deeply care about what they strive for, if you expect them to give a flip about your own life aspirations right?

;)



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 03:24:17 PM
dating is expensive Trench!

but if you think London is chaotic, Manhattan is MUCH worse!!!
and none of the major advantages of London (but NYC has a lot to offer, if you can put up with the bad things)
I just think London has a lot more to offer you - cuz you can build a new life there
American women would be very expensive for you
to give you an example, my 17 yr old has a combined income while in high school that is about 50% of your income + free room and board, car, etc
imagine what'll be 10-15 yr from now
the expectations of such women are pretty high, you DON'T want to disappoint, or seem lesser to such a woman
or she will discard you like yesterday's newspaper

I really think that in your situation, if you don't want to become a drug dealer or bank robber
then you need to take a different approach and avoid "conventional" dating all together

get out of the village
move to a better location (I can only suggest London) but there may be other places, you'd know much better than me where they'd be
get a new job, new place
find a female room mate with benefits to help with expenses (and whatever else that "may come up")
and see if the relationship can move to the next level
rather than the "wine and dine" approach

to use a martial arts analogy
you're trying to use "Boxing" which requires a lot of energy (money)
vrs JuJitsu, which requires very little energy, Jujitsu just "redirects" the opponents energy

you need to Jujitsu your way with women and not boxing
I'm REALLY bad with analogies, but do you get the concept behind what I'm trying to express?
or should I stop microdosing before I post here?




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: The Natural on August 17, 2018, 04:07:16 PM
Been Reading somewhat of this thread, enough to see that you're mobbed a lot. I don't care for a posse. But I liked Jumpers last entry, well meaning, decent advice and experience without the all so familiar insults, explained as advice for Your betterment, so often cited here.
Krimster too, but I'm wary as I've read a few very decent replies to someone from him, and followed by a bombshell of insults in the last sentence, haha.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 17, 2018, 04:51:00 PM
Just try very hard to keep in mind there's always another person in relationships;)
They will.have things they are reaching for, emotionally,spiritually, financially, etc etc
You have to actually genuinelruly deeply care about what they strive for, if you expect them to give a flip about your own life aspirations right?

;)

Thanks Jumper that is good advice, the last girl I queried here aspiration though I didn't get in board with it. I think if I had made more of effort to look into getting on board with it there might have been more go in the relationship - rather as a genuine interest with working with her on it rather than just saying I'll set he'd up in it.

I guess I am more used to the man having he's project and the woman supporting it, though I guess what you are saying is probably more the thing to focus on these days - that you both likely have something different you want to do.

Krimster, well I guess there are rich guys daughters then there are other girls ;) Thing is London is a 'very' expensive place now and I would only meet a load of girls with overly high expectations there, rich or poor the would all want Mr dogs bullocks, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 17, 2018, 05:26:12 PM
ah am a southern gentleman sir
if a man in my culture
is called a liar by another
so long as the subject in dispute
is not the length of a fish
then by custom ah would be entitled
to justly return any such injury inflicted upon me
I do not shy away from this tradition
my earnest advise is to always obey the golden rule
because ah will with a high degree of certainty, “do unto you”

well Trench, you don't have to go to Kensington or SoHo or Mayfair
but surely there must be some place better than where you find yourself now
I know there are cheaper places in the east end
because I've spent a lot of time in Rochdale, what about places like (gasp) Birmingham
based upon its unwholesome appearance and reputation they might actually pay you to live there!
it has a lot of working class neighborhoods that should be inexpensive
maybe you need to refactor your expenses
once you find more reasonable employment
then trade your paid for village house
as a down payment on something in London, etc
get a room mate to assist with monthly payments
this is basically how I "pulled myself up"
you CAN do this...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 18, 2018, 01:14:02 AM
Trench,

you aren't ML ..so why would you think you'd succeed with his approach ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 18, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Trench,

you aren't ML ..so why would you think you'd succeed with his approach ?

Trench is going to go with an approach that only works inside his head.
He isn't going to go with ML's method, he is only using parts of ML's
words to justify what he is going to do, wherever and whenever ML's
tactics differ from his, he will use something somebody else says to
rationalize that.

There is a woman out there for every man including Trench. If he keeps
putting himself out there he might cross paths with her. If he gains enough
experience and failures he might generally improve his methods and tactics
through trial and error (or not).

If I lived in Blighty and was still single, being so close I might travel to the FSU
every other week or every third week for a three day weekend and meet girls
until everything clicked with one.

Trench isn't going to do that, he has some idea in his head that he is going to
try and that's that.

It's my hope that newbies will learn from reading we write in this thread and
some will, but some won't. Trench is in the won't category.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 18, 2018, 11:32:08 AM
Unlike many other guys here, I didn't pay too much attention to photos as they often might not give correct situation, and most of the gals in Ukraine are not too bad looking anyway.  I am more of a body man than a face man.  There were only a few that I met that were 'butt ugly.'  Even those, I treated decently and kept meeting as short as possible.

Ah, I was starting to wonder if that may have been the case, and hence my question. That is how it was possible for you to get roughly 50 percent initial response back when mine was only 10 percent if that and then a fall off in communication thereafter. It's why it's important to outline the details of the strategy in full I think as otherwise one person could go about it in a whole different way to another.

I'm more of a face man myself though sometimes I sit there visually undressing a girl in her photo imaging what it would be like to be on her :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 18, 2018, 11:42:11 AM
And she's imagining the nice life of material prosperity you'll be capable of providing.  So you'll both end disappointed.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 18, 2018, 11:44:04 AM
Trench,

you aren't ML ..so why would you think you'd succeed with his approach ?

As we have seen here ML had not properly outined or the necessary details at the start of this thread. So I have unwittingly been taking a different approach to ML. ML seems confident that he's approach can work well. Why would I think anyone else's approach might work for me. Well I don't know fully but I need to take an approach. I can see why ML does what he does, it potentially brings up the girls most interested in him as they stay the course of the communication. Just yesterday I had a girl wig out of a Skype meeting with me - apparently work but I think she just lost the balls/wasn't interested in me enough. So time can be wasted with girls who aren't that interested. Thd only other way I know is wait for them to contact me, but this can be limiting and a bit slow waiting for them to contact me.

If like ML says you can get up to around 20 girls then it's just a case of seeing if any have chemistry and thd odds can be increased. So his method is not necessarily a bad method I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 18, 2018, 11:54:13 AM
Trench is going to go with an approach that only works inside his head.
He isn't going to go with ML's method, he is only using parts of ML's
words to justify what he is going to do, wherever and whenever ML's
tactics differ from his, he will use something somebody else says to
rationalize that.

There is a woman out there for every man including Trench. If he keeps
putting himself out there he might cross paths with her. If he gains enough
experience and failures he might generally improve his methods and tactics
through trial and error (or not).

If I lived in Blighty and was still single, being so close I might travel to the FSU
every other week or every third week for a three day weekend and meet girls
until everything clicked with one.

Trench isn't going to do that, he has some idea in his head that he is going to
try and that's that.

It's my hope that newbies will learn from reading we write in this thread and
some will, but some won't. Trench is in the won't category.

I have only been using parts of ML's methos unbeknown to me since he didn't outline it in fill from the offset. Now I see why he contacted 1000 girls as a small sample group of girls would not be enough to be assured of any girls getting through who are interested enough.

ML's strategy is good for a visit of probably at least a couple of weeks or more to visit all the many girls.

If I am following Nightwish's strategy of a long weekend I would have too many girls on my hands. Yet as I have seen 'writing to' (i.e initiating contact with girls first) many can drop off communication wise - it can take time to drum up a girl to visit where thd interest is there from her. So she doesn't drop of in contact during messaging or before even Skyping. Waiting for a girl to write is one way, trying to boost the profile up the ranks. I'm not sure how Nightwish managed drumming up one a month if do, that is going some compared to my experience.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 18, 2018, 12:05:26 PM
Ah, I was starting to wonder if that may have been the case, and hence my question. That is how it was possible for you to get roughly 50 percent initial response back when mine was only 10 percent if that and then a fall off in communication thereafter. It's why it's important to outline the details of the strategy in full I think as otherwise one person could go about it in a whole different way to another.

I'm more of a face man myself though sometimes I sit there visually undressing a girl in her photo imaging what it would be like to be on her :D
And there we have it, folks. Trench is a sexually frustrated 40 yr old. Perhaps he was the template for the movie, ‘The 40 Year Old Virgin’?
He’s only in it for his jollies.
Trench, the sex tourist.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on August 18, 2018, 12:23:01 PM
I have only been using parts of ML's methos unbeknown to me since he didn't outline it in fill from the offset. Now I see why he contacted 1000 girls as a small sample group of girls would not be enough to be assured of any girls getting through who are interested enough.

ML's strategy is good for a visit of probably at least a couple of weeks or more to visit all the many girls.

If I am following Nightwish's strategy of a long weekend I would have too many girls on my hands. Yet as I have seen 'writing to' (i.e initiating contact with girls first) many can drop off communication wise - it can take time to drum up a girl to visit where thd interest is there from her. So she doesn't drop of in contact during messaging or before even Skyping. Waiting for a girl to write is one way, trying to boost the profile up the ranks. I'm not sure how Nightwish managed drumming up one a month if do, that is going some compared to my experience.

I have a nice personality and can express myself well in writing, and more often girls actually  seeked me out wanting to communicate. I contribute that to my very good profile that more then often got praise from the women involved.

I didn't use PUA approach, I didn't talk to women as if they were a sex-object for my desire, I treated them as individuals and humans - as women - and I actually enjoy an intellectual conversation with a woman even if there is not a romantic undertone.
Trumming up one a month was with ease. 

I was always told that I was so very different in my communication to everyone else, now I don't really know how other talk to women on these sites, but I had a winning concept.

I guess by not starting a letter with: "Oh you're so hot and sexy, can you videocall me!" was one of my winnings.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 18, 2018, 12:38:30 PM
Trench, your approaches have failed in the past, just as posters predicted.  Why not use the advice successful (by that, I mean men who have entered into relationships with FSUW) posters suggest?  Your pig headed stubborness is defeating you.

(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/agree.gif)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 18, 2018, 01:54:09 PM
I guess by not starting a letter with: "Oh you're so hot and sexy, can you videocall me!" was one of my winnings.

Why what did you start your messages with? Most of the profiles I view the girl hasn't written anything for her profile so little to go on.

I can only think that apart from the girls that message you, you are going for girls in the 5-6 looks category (at least by profile photo), nothing wrong with that as if the chemistry is there then all can be good. Those girls will get less hits and will be more likely to stay the course of the communication.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 18, 2018, 02:03:24 PM
"...visually undressing a girl in her photo imaging..."

oh, I am MUCH worse than that, cuz it's reality first, and THEN saved to my imagination like a backup drive
what happens if one day the a-pock-a-lips comes and no more porn?
my porn vault is up here in my memory, doesn't require electricity OR internet

incels (just learned that term) have my sympathy

if Trench can't get a conventional relationship going
then I hope he meets a "freak" I don't know if they exist in the UK
I've only met them in the USA
"freak" is just my word taken from the "she's a very freaky girl" song
I've encountered 3 freaks in the USA, all on the east coast (maryland and NYC)
they were all eerily similar in appearance
somewhat short (I'm 6'4" or maybe 6'3" now)
freaks are shorter, maybe 5'3" is my guess
they all had short brown hair, blue eyes, plain face, and just a little over the ideal weight
they didn't want me to be their boyfriend or husband or "take them out"
they ONLY wanted to see and fondle my willy
my guess is their sexual development somehow gets interrupted at an early age, and they're stuck in a "show me yours, I'll show you mine" kind of state
but what they're REALLY after is just for me to show them mine and they want to "manhandle"(?) it

oh get that "stuffy" look off of your face please, you've never showed yours?
maybe really is confined to USA

nobody but me has had this experience?
why is everyone looking at me like that?



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on August 18, 2018, 02:44:44 PM
Why what did you start your messages with? Most of the profiles I view the girl hasn't written anything for her profile so little to go on.

I can only think that apart from the girls that message you, you are going for girls in the 5-6 looks category (at least by profile photo), nothing wrong with that as if the chemistry is there then all can be good. Those girls will get less hits and will be more likely to stay the course of the communication.

Hello.

No. You're rating for how "hot" a women look is absolutely of no interest to me, I can bet money that your taste and mine are not the same, but to use it for your 'amusement', I only contacted and talked to "10's", and my gf is a 12.

Since she is very active on social media and elsewhere so very easy to find, I have no intention of putting a picture of her here knowing what creeps lurks on this forum, and she has a daughter aged 16 who also has a lot of pictures up of the two of them, so someone might get a boner and start stalking her daughter.

To give you an idea, this is the first picture that comes up as suggestion with an image search. I say it again, this is NOT my gf, only a representation of her. Same black hair, same blue/grey eyes.
(http://pp.userapi.com/c834101/v834101809/101019/SCiwfnp59Z8.jpg)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 18, 2018, 03:01:02 PM
Hello.


Ah your obviously a genius then in thinking up a opener that just about 100 percent of other guys use, lol. There no pull in hello, it's what comes after where there might be clearly. I see no reason why you would gain any more interest than any other from your first initial statement.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on August 18, 2018, 03:41:28 PM
Ah your obviously a genius then in thinking up a opener that just about 100 percent of other guys use, lol. There no pull in hello, it's what comes after where there might be clearly. I see no reason why you would gain any more interest than any other from your first initial statement.

You asked me how I started my letters, and what I can remember,  I started every letter with Hello

How I after that crafted a first response or first contact would vary between the ladies, you see, I respect women, I like women, I like to talk to women, I notice details, I observe how they write to me, I tailored my message to their profile, a detail in their picture, I asked them interesting questions. There is no template for how I approached, and even if it was, that is nothing you could benefit from, you are not me.

I am not saying I got 100% response from those I contacted, depending on the site, maybe 40-60%. But once I had a communication going, very few just stopped talking to me without notice.

and I am not in the business to give you specifics, you haven't taken a single piece of advice so far, so why should I waste the space?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 18, 2018, 06:33:20 PM
Thanks Jumper that is good advice, the last girl I queried here aspiration though I didn't get in board with it. I think if I had made more of effort to look into getting on board with it there might have been more go in the relationship - rather as a genuine interest with working with her on it rather than just saying I'll set he'd up in it.



Ever see the movie Phenomenon ?

Great movie with Travolta and Robert Duvall.

Duvall's character Doc, has a great line in it about winning the heart of a woman.or at least attempting to.

 He bought her chairs

Every woman has her chair, something she needs to put herself into, Banes. You ever figure out what Lisa's chairs were and buy 'em?

Here's the clip... and remember it's not about literally purchasing anything ;)




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 18, 2018, 07:30:31 PM


Here's the clip...


Wanna SEE it ! ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 18, 2018, 07:59:32 PM
And she's imagining the nice life of material prosperity you'll be capable of providing.  So you'll both end disappointed.

 :thumbsup: :toocool:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 18, 2018, 09:15:27 PM
"Wanna SEE it !"

that's what SHE said!
why she even bothered to ask me, I don't know, rhetorical squared or cubed even
DAMN! GIRL FRIEND!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Maxx2 on August 19, 2018, 01:21:37 AM
Honestly, this may sound crazy but the only other thought I have is that I may get more joy from US girls than UK girls. Despite he westernisation/feminisation problem I see it less marked in the US ( depneing on area/state). I think my status as a foreigner/Brit would help me out. I kind of like the soft female American accent also, don't like the fat ones though :D


This one is you Colin


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHqhAnguYJ0
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 19, 2018, 01:38:28 AM
Telly-tubbie ,"No-oh" Maxx

Colin came home with a gorgeous American 10 ....

(http://beyondtheboxset.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Colin-300x167.jpg)

I think 'Trench' should try it and write a trip report  :D

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 19, 2018, 02:33:27 AM
You asked me how I started my letters, and what I can remember,  I started every letter with Hello

How I after that crafted a first response or first contact would vary between the ladies, you see, I respect women, I like women, I like to talk to women, I notice details, I observe how they write to me, I tailored my message to their profile, a detail in their picture, I asked them interesting questions. There is no template for how I approached, and even if it was, that is nothing you could benefit from, you are not me.

I am not saying I got 100% response from those I contacted, depending on the site, maybe 40-60%. But once I had a communication going, very few just stopped talking to me without notice.

and I am not in the business to give you specifics, you haven't taken a single piece of advice so far, so why should I waste the space?

Makes sense I guess if you're not doing the numbers like ML to do as personal message as you can manage. No doubt a fair amount of girls pock up on a spam message even if one or two personal bits have been added. But of course under ML's method thd most interested girls will carry on anyway till the end. Your method you are looking to gain their interest and/or one mah come up that has interest already. So much to think about.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 19, 2018, 02:39:10 AM
So much to think about.

Shame you claim to do so much thinking - given the advice you've had and ignored it ..

Until you change your attitude - you're wasting your money ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BC on August 19, 2018, 03:14:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh51lx-NNro
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 19, 2018, 03:33:34 AM
my oldest daughter will probably look like your American Woman pic in 5 more years
both are HIGHLY atypical of American women
I think my daughter's reaction to Trench (and I may be THE only person here who likes Trench)
would not be very pleasant for Trench

she and I have MAJOR disagreements over how she treats people she feels "are lesser"
she and her little pack of "mean girls" terrorize her high school
when I was high school age, I used to live in total dread of girls like this
and to find my daughter has become one
has been disappointing to me
but she's only 17 and is the most spoiled, self entitled creature on this earth with an over inflated sense of self worth
I'm sure that will change when she leaves home and has to make her way in the world like everyone else

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Maxx2 on August 19, 2018, 04:12:48 AM
(and I may be THE only person here who likes Trench)



I might like him too but I am not taking the chance to get to know him better. Maybe I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 19, 2018, 07:22:14 AM
I have two teens that I am back to being hyper-protective about, so no house guests
and Trench is probably as horny as a billygoat with TWO peckers
part of my "like" is that I think Trench and I have something in common....
Trench, others have shown me that it's better to be "out of the closet" so to speak
I spent my entire adult life successfully concealing it, and NOT talking about it ever.
now that "I'm out" I find I can't STOP talking about it
it feels good
probably some hysteresivity involved and over time reach a midpoint
you guys have NHS, should be easy to go and seek a diagnosis
and get therapy, this SAVED MY life Trench
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 19, 2018, 07:51:14 AM
What was the diagnosis Krimster?

Well I used to conceal/deny stuff but over time I saw this too was just blocking me. That progress can be made by admitting what the situation is and  keep trying to work on it.

Some people have known diagnosed mental health issues/problems, for many it's not that severe a bit of occasional anxiety etc. Others remain undiagnosed and even themore not coming aware of their problems properly can be a problem for themselves and society.

A lot of people I think don't have mental health issues but still have traits, attitudes or personalities that may not always be great. A case of unfortunate genetics - someone can either face up to minding their problem areas or they can proceed as before.

There are no doubt those in society who come at the top of the tree with the stuff they inherit and are generally weak in few areas. Yet life being what it is even they can fail and a weaker person succeed.

At this juncture I am again going to throw myself into the FSU dating scene with another attempt now I understand the task at hand better. So I may not be on here as much during this but we'll see.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jumper on August 19, 2018, 08:16:22 AM
Wanna SEE it ! ;)



I couldn't embed it for some reason.
Likely my own incompetence;)

http://youtu.be/r8U_I6Dap4o


But you'd really have to watch the entire movie to get the full effect of the double meaning in Docs line.

It's a good film,one of my favorites.
And not your typical Hollywood happy endings.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BC on August 19, 2018, 08:24:36 AM
At this juncture I am again going to throw myself into the FSU dating scene with another attempt now I understand the task at hand better. So I may not be on here as much during this but we'll see.

Just go to have fun and see a bit more of the world out there without rings n strings in mind and you'll be fine.  Date, date, date.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 19, 2018, 08:48:41 AM
"What was the diagnosis Krimster?"

Level 1 Autism Spectrum Disorder, also known as high functioning autism
there are online tests, I would urge you to take one, and if you score positive, and have concerns, you can PM me
I really can't say for certain this applies to you without meeting you in person
but it might, I'd urge you to find out
therapy, BTW, is not sitting on a couch talking about your child hood
but learning appropriate social behavior and controlling outward symptoms
it really changed my life

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 19, 2018, 09:12:03 AM
wow jumper!! good find!!!

but this board is more like:

http://youtu.be/wLaJOYR7Tuc
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 22, 2018, 09:04:39 AM
ML, what did you do with any girls that didn't answer your questions? as in responded but talked of other stuff. Did you knock them of your list or still send them the follow up second letter regardless?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 22, 2018, 02:05:14 PM
Wanna SEE it ! ;)


http://youtu.be/1xp6UDFY5Jg?list=PL8JEc10aL9V6PrMuQkslMdhF3xmRraN6d

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 22, 2018, 02:27:39 PM
Thank you Jumper and Beel  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 22, 2018, 03:24:44 PM
ML, what did you do with any girls that didn't answer your questions? as in responded but talked of other stuff. Did you knock them of your list or still send them the follow up second letter regardless?

My name's not ML - but if I didn't get a response - I made sure they were logging in ... if they were and didn't respond ... I learnt to never wrote again ,,,you cannot woe them all ... 

[ or in your case - for 'some reason' - you cannot woe them AT all ;) ]
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 22, 2018, 09:08:35 PM
ML, what did you do with any girls that didn't answer your questions? as in responded but talked of other stuff. Did you knock them of your list or still send them the follow up second letter regardless?

I usually did not delete them for failure to answer my questions.
Sometimes they came around to answering later after they ascertained I was real and probably actually coming.
Others that did not answer my questions were deleted later when they made a more serious error about something . . . money requests, wavering about meeting times, etc., etc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 22, 2018, 09:10:57 PM
As we have seen here, ML had not properly outlined or the necessary details at the start of this thread. .

What ?????
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 22, 2018, 09:59:27 PM
Sometimes they came around to answering later after they ascertained I was real and probably actually coming.


I believe some girls test guys by not answering some questions. There are people, even here, that demand an answer for every question they ask. After the girls figure out the guy isn't angry or the pushy type, they'll answer the question in the next message/letter.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 23, 2018, 08:00:32 AM
I usually did not delete them for failure to answer my questions.
Sometimes they came around to answering later after they ascertained I was real and probably actually coming.
Others that did not answer my questions were deleted later when they made a more serious error about something . . . money requests, wavering about meeting times, etc., etc.

Thanks ML that helps to clear it up a bit as I am finding some girls respond with stuff other than what I wrote the questions about. I'm guessing its easier to press on and send these girls the second pre-written letters and press on regardless, they will either follow or drop out. I think to reply to the stuff they wrote on an individual basis would take too much timme unless in the later stages as with a thousand or even a few hundred women it could generate loads of individual letters. I deem from what you said at the beginning of this thread that is generally to be avoided in the early stages as it would become too cumbersome to deal with.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 23, 2018, 08:11:31 AM
I believe some girls test guys by not answering some questions. There are people, even here, that demand an answer for every question they ask. After the girls figure out the guy isn't angry or the pushy type, they'll answer the question in the next message/letter.

I think this is likely true Billy, you are very astute :) Some I wondered if they did it on purpose. I thought perhaps also a few might do it to test if they were getting a pre-written letter with a few personal input since I'm guessing a fair few must know that this goes on. That and some are just sending out a pre-written statement to guys themselves, lol. I know that girls I have messaged before in the past have done that, some very convincingly.

The other factor I am coming across is that some girls don't know English well or aware of online translate programs - I'm guessing the not very geeky ones. So the statement sItend to get from them are short and often unrelated to my message. So I think there are probably a variety of reasons which probably stands to reason as everyone is different and will go about it in a different way from both the guys & the girls side. Just a case of feeling out why its happening with each girl I guess.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 23, 2018, 08:19:00 AM
I think this is likely true Billy, you are very astute :) Some I wondered if they did it on purpose.

Trench fawns over the 'advice' given by a non Russian speaking chap as gospel  ;)

Far more likely they don't want to answer what they consider in inane or inappropriate Q ...not that you'd GET the signals ...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 23, 2018, 09:10:30 AM
Trench fawns over the 'advice' given by a non Russian speaking chaps as gospel  ;)

Far more likely they don't want to answer what they consider in inane or inappropriate Q ...not that you'd GET the signals ...

They are standard questions that anyone should want to know.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 23, 2018, 09:35:50 AM
I can imagine

Do you like to wear short skirts ?....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 23, 2018, 10:58:14 AM
They are standard questions that anyone should want to know.


You have to admit, Trench, that you often fail to recognize what is acceptable or normal in your own culture, let alone a foreign one.  So, what are these questions?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 23, 2018, 08:40:32 PM
I'd love to hear, too - but perhaps he could answer in his thread - as we are polluting ML's
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 24, 2018, 05:01:57 AM
For the benefit of others I think that using ML's strategy today any talk of Messaging/Video Chat Apps such as WhatsApp, Viber, Skype would need to be avoided and ignored. They tend to make it too difficult to follow which girl is which with a large number of girls. I think this is particularly apparent when trying to keep track of the girl and conversation from dating site to messaging app, it would become to labour intensive and confusing. Keeping up the standardised messaging would be too difficult also as many girls try to have texting conversation in real time on these apps. So again it would be a case of ignore any request by her and she would either drop out or follow along in the process.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 24, 2018, 06:58:59 AM


I think that using ML's my own lame strategy today any talk of Messaging/Video
Chat Apps such as WhatsApp, Viber, Skype would need to be avoided and ignored.

See what you are doing is you are cherry picking the parts of others strategy so that
you can continue to justify your silly tactics. You want to exchange emails for months
with a multitude of women but not Skype because it will expose your lack of spontaneous
social skills.

If you followed ML's strategy, you would do a limited exchange to weed out girls
and them meet them in person. Your strategy is to engage back and forth with
a large number of them for months while ignoring the ones most interested in
you.

You will find a group who are vaguely interested in you (at best) then go visit
the hottest ones and will get rejected again, and again and again. Why?

The most interested ones will want to meet on Skype, you will ignore them
and continue with the girls who are least interested. You are pouring off the
cream and dumping it in the waste bin.

This is a sticky, that means that the ideas, theories and discussion here were
deemed to be important by the forum moderators and leaders. You have your
own page. Please continue your justifications of promoting your lame ideas
and bad strategies back on your own page rather than polluting this one. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 24, 2018, 07:52:11 AM
Trenchcoat,

Until you address your autistic issue and learn copping skills you are wasting our time as well as your own, plus your limited resources.

So you understand everyone is entitled to joy and happiness. They need though to understand there limits.

BdHvA
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 24, 2018, 08:03:56 AM
Trenchcoat,

Until you address your autistic issue and learn copping skills you are wasting our time as well as your own, plus your limited resources.

So you understand everyone is entitled to joy and happiness. They need though to understand there limits.

BdHvA


Trench - you should listen to BdHvA - he is considered a leader in the field of pyscho-analysis....     :popcorn:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 24, 2018, 09:34:26 AM
I think Trench does understand...
but discussing that is not his purpose here

everyone needs a dream like Trench, everyone
but it takes more than wishing to make it come true

here in the colonies we have a "funny little saying"
"love might make the world go 'round, but it's money that greases the wheel"
without that lubrication, it can be pretty hard to move that wheel

so you need to ponder that a bit
and think if there might be other ways of moving that wheel

If you are really, really, intent on this
then try multiple approaches

I really recommend you make www.trencheslife.com
and make the best presentation of yourself that you can
once you have that, then it becomes a question of how do you get all the pretty girls to come and look at it
no matter what you put there, there is going to be someone who will like it, I GUARANTEE it! (full refund if I'm wrong)
part of the web site, is contact info

now, the second part of this is up to you
I explained to you before that I made huge mistakes when I was young
of dismissing women who were AMAZING on the inside
but my adolescent boy brain didn't think they were PERFECT on the outside
I was stupid...stupid...stupid...
also as I explained to you earlier, if you show compassion to someone they are MORE LIKELY to show compassion to you
think about it
would love to contribute to www.trencheslife.com
I could write for you, make simple sketches for you
so if you need my help, I'm here me 'bruv



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on August 24, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
It may or not help you (or your cause) Trenchcoat, but ran into this video two days ago. it deals with 'masculinity' and its place in society these days. Interesting take..

http://youtu.be/U-kxdyJs6y8

I heard the liberal social media tried to ban it, too.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 25, 2018, 05:45:34 AM

See what you are doing is you are cherry picking the parts of others strategy so that
you can continue to justify your silly tactics. You want to exchange emails for months
with a multitude of women but not Skype because it will expose your lack of spontaneous
social skills.

If you followed ML's strategy, you would do a limited exchange to weed out girls
and them meet them in person. Your strategy is to engage back and forth with
a large number of them for months while ignoring the ones most interested in
you.

You will find a group who are vaguely interested in you (at best) then go visit
the hottest ones and will get rejected again, and again and again. Why?

The most interested ones will want to meet on Skype, you will ignore them
and continue with the girls who are least interested. You are pouring off the
cream and dumping it in the waste bin.

This is a sticky, that means that the ideas, theories and discussion here were
deemed to be important by the forum moderators and leaders. You have your
own page. Please continue your justifications of promoting your lame ideas
and bad strategies back on your own page rather than polluting this one.

You are correct in so much as ML is probably suggesting a short burst of correspondence and a quick decision making as who to bring to Skype then go meet. ML should have really set out in detail his strategy and how to go about it. He just gave an overview of it. He never said until I asked what you do with the girls that replied with their own message that didn't reply to thd first/second message or what to do in the case of messaging apps. As such I feel the point I was making on messaging apps should have been left on the sticky thread as it was very appropriate as anyone following ML's thread will get countless girls wanting you to connect with them on whatsapphire,  viber, etc after the first or second message. If you reply ignoring that with another message some girls will likely not communicate back.

Of course numbers have to be cut down but what ML does and what some one else does in this instance will alter the result.

Anyway, I've not yet fully initiated ML's approach. Its gone more the Nightwish approach at the moment of targeting individual women. A fair amount have fallen by the wayside but I was speaking to one on video chat recently and she seems to have interest there. I'm going to suggest a weekend visit. So with a bit of luck will be of to Minsk soon :) She seems a nice happy personality and we'll disposed to me. Again I don't think I will know chemistry until meeting in person but it should be good at least to check out Minsk and I have a few back up options if things went south.

From what I gather from her the Belarus economy is pretty poor, so like Ukraine apart from the civil war. They seem to have quite a work ethic though in Belarus, much like the Polish I think rather than Ukraine. So they tend to do many jobs or long hours. I thinking that a Belarus girl could be a good one so worth checking out :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on August 25, 2018, 09:50:38 AM
Trench - you should listen to BdHvA - he is considered a leader in the field of pyscho-analysis....     

Another, lie, misstatement or twisting of the truth by Moby.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 25, 2018, 10:21:58 AM
Another, lie, misstatement or twisting of the truth by Moby.

 :ROFL

BdHvA, doesn't get it / nor like it - when irony is aimed at him ...  How does it feel ? 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on August 25, 2018, 02:38:20 PM
a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character

msmob was kind enough to point that out to you, you should give him your gratitude
else this knowledge would be unknown to you
and who deserves honor more than your teachers



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BillyB on August 25, 2018, 02:51:51 PM
It may or not help you (or your cause) Trenchcoat, but ran into this video two days ago. it deals with 'masculinity' and its place in society these days. Interesting take..

http://youtu.be/U-kxdyJs6y8


That was a pretty good video. I remember being at a gas station pulling up to the pump and a guy gets out of his car and asks "What are you doing?" since he thought he was next in line. I yelled at him firmly "I was here first!" which was true but didn't know since he didn't pay attention. He got back in his car and said nothing more. As I pumped gas, my wife gave me a look of admiration. Overwhelming majority of women do want a man that has testosterone.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 29, 2018, 11:08:32 AM
I refer the honourable gentleman to the advice of earlier ... 'keep guessing' [ not a bad guess - she did study in that field ]

Well need a clue here Mobers, it could literally be anything. If someone stuck up a photo of any one and asked another to guess it could take forever!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 30, 2018, 09:53:09 PM
I have linked a few of Olya's clips previously -- I think she understates in each case here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4r3QTSBL-w


This  vid  feeds all the negatives !
It does show some great scenes of Odesa in an area I know very well !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtbwGrZ7umM
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2018, 10:55:21 AM
I think it's probably the case that a lot of these desperate women have to decide whether to go with a WM abroad for whatever the ride or take advantage of them when they visit for monetary gain. Of course they need to gauge how far they can get out of a guy before he may kick back, hence the game play.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Donna_Pedro on November 04, 2018, 01:27:44 PM
Despite differences of opinion there may be with other members some of your contributions are most helpful to us Donna, soDonna, so thank you for that :)


I am sure they are. As they have been for a lot of guys before you. Happy to be here.




Quote
Of course they need to gauge how far they can get out of a guy before he may kick back, hence the game play.


Thats easy.  "50 shades of abuse and how to use them to your gain" . Thats the first thing any woman learns when she starts thinking about a western man.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2018, 02:13:54 PM
Thats easy.  "50 shades of abuse and how to use them to your gain" . Thats the first thing any woman learns when she starts thinking about a western man.

Yeah, I get the impression from meeting some UW and hearing about other men meeting and marrying them they seem to use techniques of whatever works to get what they want from them.

In the UK I can earn in a day on little more than basic wage what a girl working full time in retail earns in a month in Ukraine. Yet repeatedly forum members here have told me these women don't need saving/are not desperate. I found this odd as after seeing some of the ghettos they live in, poor pay, the state of the country, & hearing of the civil war on theit turf, I got repeatedly heckled for saying these girls were dirt poor/dirt poor country, that many lived in dumpsk. Now I find out that what I had been saying does have a ring of truth to it. What you say makes sense as before it didn't add up - I mean you can't say the country's economy is poor, wages for many are low, civil war/dispute yet these girls are ok.

Over here in the UK a girl thinks it bad going onto Universal Credit (Social Security Benefit). That's nothing compared to being a single mother in Ukraine though from the reports I've read. Here I was reading a girl whining online about Universal Credit, she said she became a single mother after finding out her man had cheated on her no less, so she finished it with him, lol. In the FSU  I here most women will turn a blind eye to such goings on just to keep the man with her so long/since he provides. Being a single mum out there is to be avoided at all costs I hear, so few FSW can afford to end their relationship over such a matter.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 04, 2018, 02:27:00 PM
No, Trench, you are mistaken.

The people who are dirt poor are pensioners and those with little education, or working many types of blue collar jobs.  Those who are educated are not dirt poor and are not desperate.  However, once again, I do suggest you tell every woman you meet that you intend on taking her from her "dumpsk" country.

Since you believe Donna Pedro, ask her what your chances are of keeping a woman on your salary.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2018, 02:31:59 PM
What always surprises me is that a lot of UW are not a bit more amieniable to the men they meet. I mean considering the man has travelled so far and is there means of escape/offer a way better lifestyle. Even in messaging they can be quiet dictatorial in their demands of how they see a relationship progressing or how to meet. I personally don't see that they have a long term benefit in being a that way, just short term gain I guess.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 04, 2018, 02:35:32 PM
You don't have to see, as nobody asked you to look abroad.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2018, 02:44:45 PM
No, Trench, you are mistaken.

The people who are dirt poor are pensioners and those with little education, or working many types of blue collar jobs.  Those who are educated are not dirt poor and are not desperate.  However, once again, I do suggest you tell every woman you meet that you intend on taking her from her "dumpsk" country.

Since you believe Donna Pedro, ask her what your chances are of keeping a woman on your salary.

As said before of course there are those women that earn better in the more professional jobs. Many girls have higher education out there but are still stuck in the low paid jobs. My salary is lowish by UK standards but high compared to Ukraine. Again as said before it is a part time job while I spend the rest of my time converting my house to gain income from renting out rooms. From there I am going to press on towards setting myself up in business in construction.

My part time salary was £13k a year, it is going up to 16k a year starting this month as I am taking a few more hours on, not so much willingly I did not ask for them but it was too much bother to knock them back. Main thing is I own my own home outright. I may not be able to afford a very lavish lifestyle yet but I'm sure it's still far better a lifestyle for a girl than her sweating it out in Ukraine. Even the State pension here around £160 a week is hugely better than the State Pension offering in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 04, 2018, 02:47:14 PM
Once again, I wish to point out the our Trench is wasting his time chasing FSU tail as his income falls below that needs to 'import' a wife into the UK ..



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 04, 2018, 02:49:14 PM
As said before of course there are those women that earn better in the more professional jobs. Many girls have higher education out there but are still stuck in the low paid jobs. My salary is lowish by UK standards but high compared to Ukraine. Again as said before it is a part time job while I spend the rest of my time converting my house to gain income from renting out rooms. From there I am going to press on towards setting myself up in business in construction.

My part time salary was £13k a year, it is going up to 16k a year starting this month as I am taking a few more hours on, not so much willingly I did not ask for them but it was too much bother to knock them back. Main thing is I own my own home outright. I may not be able to afford a very lavish lifestyle yet but I'm sure it's still far better a lifestyle for a girl than her sweating it out in Ukraine. Even the State pension here around £160 a week is hugely better than the State Pension offering in Ukraine.


Your salary in the UK is irrelevant to salaries in Ukraine. The cost of living is about 60% lower in Ukraine than in the UK, as a whole.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2018, 02:56:44 PM

Your salary in the UK is irrelevant to salaries in Ukraine. The cost of living is about 60% lower in Ukraine than in the UK, as a whole.

Food prices didn't seem a lot lower. Apparently the high inflation in Ukraine a big problem there. On Belarus I heard a mortgage there is 50% APR and I get the impression in Ukraine it's not too dis-similar not to mention the awful concrete block surroundings.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 04, 2018, 03:00:18 PM
Once again, I wish to point out the our Trench is wasting his time chasing FSU tail as his income falls below that needs to 'import' a wife into the UK ..

Actually I would only be approx 2.6k short of the overall 18.6k needed to bring a spouse to the UK. So not that short at all, I could easily increase hours a little more to cover that :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on November 04, 2018, 03:15:32 PM
Food prices didn't seem a lot lower. Apparently the high inflation in Ukraine a big problem there. On Belarus I heard a mortgage there is 50% APR and I get the impression in Ukraine it's not too dis-similar not to mention the awful concrete block surroundings.


I just spent over six weeks in Ukraine.  Average price, for a Ukrainian couple, of a week's worth of groceries is about 300 hryvnias, and that is eating extremely well - meat, milk, vegetables, fruit.  But that is with no outside meals.  An average bill in a cafeteria for locals is 122 hyrvnias.  For tourists, it is 320 hryvnias.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on November 04, 2018, 07:00:42 PM
As Boe states . . . it is foolish to talk about salaries in various countries and try to make any comparisons on that factor alone.

If you really want to make valid comparisons, read about Purchasing Power Parity and then go from there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on November 05, 2018, 01:27:15 AM
Trench  -- I note Donna Pedro mentioned  village based Ukrainian relatives desperate to leave -- I suggest you write to her and get contact details -- it sounds like a match made in heaven for you-- idiot meeting family of an idiot !

Should be a match !! ;D :cluebat: :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 09, 2018, 01:26:16 AM
Not for your new family - it won't ..

It will already cost £200/ year - per person and the plan is to double that - there's another £1000- 2000  up front

http://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-much-pay (http://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/hotw-much-pay)

Sure but when she us a naturalised citizen she won't have to pay & in the short term it's a small price to pay for the cover she would get.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 09, 2018, 01:34:51 AM
Sure but when she us a naturalised citizen she won't have to pay & in the short term it's a small price to pay for the cover she would get.

That might take longer, soon, too ..You voted for this ))
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 09, 2018, 06:20:48 AM
That might take longer, soon, too ..You voted for this ))

In that case I could always join you in Ireland ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 10, 2018, 02:38:10 PM
In that case I could always join you in Ireland ;D

Ha, you aren't Irish  - you won't have an EU citizen's rights ..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 10, 2018, 05:26:34 PM
Ha, you aren't Irish  - you won't have an EU citizen's rights ..

If I came and stayed a couple of years I would, we could be neighbours ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 11, 2018, 01:48:51 AM
If I came and stayed a couple of years I would, we could be neighbours ;D

1/ I see you need to read up on acquiring IRL nationality

2/ I'll be sure to let you know my address ..

When you are married to a FSU W AND have IRL nationality ! ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 05:32:56 AM
Remember Trenchie seeks a woman who's 35 WITHOUT kids - such a presumably professional - woman going to be interested in a Brit guy earning less tan the average salary ?

I will earn roughly £20k for each of the 2 years of work on my house as an untaxed capital gain. This of course would not show up unless I sell the house. On top of this I now earn £16k per year was 13k. So in all it is £36k per year, mostly with little tax, that is way above the national average wage. After I finish my house I have other projects planned.

Granted though that will not show up as such and  will be difficult to explain to a FSW. Dojng so might even sound like I'm BS'ing her. I remember DK had issues when trying to explain his varied work situation. So in general I just talk up my standard job slightly as it's just easier and put the house stuff down as DIY alteration work.

In general though it's why I prefer girls who are non-professional. Professional types seem to have this peculiar awkwardness over needing a comparable career. Trying to explain to them that a). I earn way more than them whatever the case. And b). You rarely get much more for a professional job in the UK these days than any other job. Well it's a difficulty that is not worth the ordeal of explaining. So I prefer as simplified situation as possible.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 07:37:18 AM
1/ I see you need to read up on acquiring IRL nationality

2/ I'll be sure to let you know my address ..

When you are married to a FSU W AND have IRL nationality ! ;)

1). Under thd Treaty of London I can reside in Rep of Ireland any time I like. If I reside there for two years I can apply and gain Irish citizenship, hence EU Citizenship also 'IF' Rep of Ireland remains part of the EU  ;)

2). Great! We would then be able to argue with each other all the time :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on November 11, 2018, 11:00:43 AM
My guess would be mid thirties, say about 35.

That's all a bit subjective though, it depends upon the woman, but in terms of ones that can easily have kids that's where it can start to tail off a bit.

You've gotta stop taking over other peoples threads.

So here what is radically different. Once a woman in the FSU gets over a certain age
the men stop seriously considering her for marriage and a family. Men would still be
happy to sit on her couch and get waited on hand and foot and to F#ck her frequently
without a condom, but eventually they will move to another woman's couch and the
cycle will repeat itself. 

100% of the women that ML sought out have reached that age. 10% of the women
you are considering have reached that age.

Next, ML has top level grade A interpersonal skills and you don't. He's far more likely
to talk women into doing something they aren't 100% interested in while you will find
it more difficult.

Lastly, ML doesn't spend many months exchanging conversations with these women.
I don't know how many he exchanges but it will be 10% or less than what you intend
to do.

So you aren't actually following ML's tactics, you are doing a hybrid of the wrong
mix but calling your hybrid ML's system in order to give it credibility. You have spent
most of your time here, ignoring most of the advice you get, only highlighting that
which you can twist to match your own theories. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on November 11, 2018, 11:16:52 AM
"So here what is radically different. Once a woman in the FSU gets over a certain age
the men stop seriously considering her for marriage and a family. Men would still be
happy to sit on her couch and get waited on hand and foot and to F#ck her frequently
without a condom, but eventually they will move to another woman's couch and the
cycle will repeat itself. "


some of the truest words ever posted here
I'm impressed!

these women are VERY dangerous to married guys
because their only option seems to be to hit on married guys in the most aggressive way possible

if you live over there, a very REAL danger, watch out!!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on November 11, 2018, 12:17:28 PM
it's sad that guys who are miserable in their home country dating scene
don't know the kind of results that they can get in Ukraine
you DON'T HAVE TO BE A RICH SUPER STUD to succeed in Ukraine
just be at least "average" across most categories
that's all it takes, seriously

until I read of all the guys posting here who failed in Ukraine
I would have thought that it would have been impossible to fail in Ukraine!
amazing to me that there have been those who have figured out how to do it
I just don't understand why
when you consider the nature of the reward for success.

That is very true Krimster, I think though with WM is getting there head around how it works out there. On the face of it yes it is the same as dating a woman anywhere but at the same time there are different variables. As the above quote shows it is even possible for an average or probably even a little below average guy to two time girls. I know from what others had said on here that is inadvisable unless you can pass the stringent Ukrainian girl lie detector test, lol.

I think a lot of the problem lies in the quick fly in date, fly out nature that a lot of guys use. The other problem is thd time it takes to get to know the way things are over there. In the west a lot of average guys struggle to get a date, are not used to how UW/FSW date and the way they are minded.

It takes some time to get acclimatised to how different women are in Ukraine/FSW to the west. In the west women have become different over time to their Ukrainian counterparts. Western women take their pick of the men, in Ukraine it's the other way around. UW/FSW are feminine and not aloof like a lot of WW.

The problem can come firstly in not being their long enough. Over time you can can more adapt at dating UW/FSW, can pick them up quicker and know what you're dealing with. A meet one though is a real poke in the dark for the unseasoned WM FSU dater however much you've video chatted and think you know her. When I was in Lviv in the summer I picked up two dates on the hoof over two weeks. Now I think I could pick up more from learning about my mistakes. Even two though compared to trying to date in the west isn't at all bad. The more experience I get at dating though thd better I become so the longer I can stay out there the better I can do. A guy who gets experienced can probably seem a better catch to UW/FSW than an inexperienced newbie who often just looks vulnerable and easy to be taken or if meeting a good girl just plain 'not worthy'.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on November 11, 2018, 05:13:17 PM
A guy who gets experienced can probably seem a better catch to UW/FSW than an inexperienced newbie who often just looks vulnerable and easy to be taken or if meeting a good girl just plain 'not worthy'.

Trench,

This is a sticky thread and as such it's not for you to post your Mickey Mouse ideas
that nobody agrees with except you. You have plenty of other threads to post your
drivel.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on November 12, 2018, 09:50:32 AM
Trench,

This is a sticky thread and as such it's not for you to post your Mickey Mouse ideas
that nobody agrees with except you. You have plenty of other threads to post your
drivel.

Trenchie,

you've EVEN managed to alienate Beel .... 

How about you try LISTENING instead of your ' theories from a guy who is not finding this venture too rewarding and has no clue - it's himself ' ? 

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 26, 2018, 03:11:44 AM
Bill you wrote about a certain age of woman and their desirability please could you define ages etc.  I'd just like an insight to that culture.  Especially with a Ukraine  flavour and couch surfers.    I just have my spider senses tingling.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on December 26, 2018, 03:48:41 AM
Trench,

This is a sticky thread and as such it's not for you to post your Mickey Mouse ideas
that nobody agrees with except you. You have plenty of other threads to post your
drivel.
Come on Bill, this is Trenchies very thread about his mysoginistic viewsunique approach to looking for a woman. 😂
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2019, 01:08:05 PM
It's quite usual from what I hear for FSW to keep their options open until a guy commits. A WM can change his mind at will and she can quickly go to being yesterday's news. She may not get another prospect so can't afford to bat guys away. It can no doubt be an ego boost for girls also.

Some also say that girls in their thirties, probably even more so with kids don't really expect a long term relationship. They just get used to the default mistress position, short term relationship, one night stand, etc. Since many of them get used to a man not committing or promissing it and coming to nothing.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2019, 01:10:12 PM
Some also say that girls in their thirties, probably even more so with kids don't really expect a long term relationship. They just get used to the default mistress position, short term relationship, one night stand, etc.


This is inaccurate.  FSU society is changing, just as Western society has.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2019, 01:29:04 PM

This is inaccurate.  FSU society is changing, just as Western society has.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Oh, so what prey tell do you think their position is at present in the FSU?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2019, 01:34:25 PM

Oh, so what prey tell do you think their position is at present in the FSU?

Well, off the top of my head, I can think of 8 UW in their thirties with children who remarried, to UM. Half of them had children with their second husbands, one, at age 43.  So, no need to "prey tell".

You have strange notions of FSUW, and my prediction is that because of this, long term, you will not have a successful relationship with one.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on January 02, 2019, 01:39:57 PM
Well, off the top of my head, I can think of 8 UW in their thirties with children who remarried, to UM. Half of them had children with their second husbands, one, at age 43.  So, no need to "prey tell".


You have strange notions of FSUW, and my prediction is that because of this, long term, you will not have a successful relationship with one.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
He has strange notions about women, full stop.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2019, 01:46:38 PM
Well, off the top of my head, I can think of 8 UW in their thirties with children who remarried, to UM. Half of them had children with their second husbands, one, at age 43.  So, no need to "prey tell".


You have strange notions of FSUW, and my prediction is that because of this, long term, you will not have a successful relationship with one.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Sure some will get with a FSUM, UM or WM remarry and some may have kids with that second man. Let's face it some girls in their thirties even are still hotties. One of the reason many were chosen in the first place was because they are hot, not all but a fair few. The reason why the man is no longer around varies. Some women can swing it, often the more hotter ones into getting another guy.

However, even WM on dating sites often chose to screen out those with kids. Some see benefits in going for those girls already with kids. Others are sex tourists knowing that most of these girls are going to be good for it. They know that most of these girls will have resigned their position in life as being little more than a bum for sex with both WM and local men. For a small token gesture many will fall into this default position that becomes almost expected of them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on January 02, 2019, 01:50:16 PM
Sure some will get with a FSUM, UM or WM remarry and some may have kids with that second man. Let's face it some girls in their thirties even are still hotties. One of the reason many were chosen in the first place was because they are hot, not all but a fair few. The reason why the man is no longer around varies. Some women can swing it, often the more hotter ones into getting another guy.

However, even WM on dating sites often chose to screen out those with kids. Some see benefits in going for those girls already with kids. Others are sex tourists knowing that most of these girls are going to be good for it. They know that most of these girls will have resigned their position in life as being little more than a bum for sex with both WM and local men. For a small token gesture many will fall into this default position that becomes almost expected of them.
And what are basing your views on?
Your vast experience with FSUW?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2019, 01:54:16 PM
And what are basing your views on?
Your vast experience with FSUW?

I would refer you to the text 'Bang Ukraine' by Roosh.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on January 02, 2019, 02:01:17 PM
I would refer you to the text 'Bang Ukraine' by Roosh.
This only gets better and better.
So a so called PUA trash is what you’re following in your quest?
I’m even more convinced now that you’ll never be successful. I can’t, with all honesty, say I’m not pleased about that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2019, 02:06:37 PM
This only gets better and better.
So a so called PUA trash is what you’re following in your quest?
I’m even more convinced now that you’ll never be successful. I can’t, with all honesty, say I’m not pleased about that.

Info is info, doesn't mean it's source/outlook makes it irrelevant. I don't follow all of it as I'm after a different goal. Still I find he's pretty good on his analysis/objectifying of Ukrainian women.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on January 02, 2019, 02:13:32 PM
Sure some will get with a FSUM, UM or WM remarry and some may have kids with that second man. Let's face it some girls in their thirties even are still hotties. One of the reason many were chosen in the first place was because they are hot, not all but a fair few. The reason why the man is no longer around varies. Some women can swing it, often the more hotter ones into getting another guy.

However, even WM on dating sites often chose to screen out those with kids. Some see benefits in going for those girls already with kids. Others are sex tourists knowing that most of these girls are going to be good for it. They know that most of these girls will have resigned their position in life as being little more than a bum for sex with both WM and local men. For a small token gesture many will fall into this default position that becomes almost expected of them.

Not all the UW I know who remarried were "hot".  Half of them weren't.  So another Trench "theory" proven false.

Smart men don't look for the "hottest" woman they can land.  They look for one they are attracted to who has personal qualities that are desirable.  "Hotness" fades with time.  Character, if it is good, does not.

As for "Roosh", you do know that (a) he struck out in Ukraine, and (b) he lives in his mother's basement, correct?  Is that really someone you wish to emulate?


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2019, 02:20:54 PM
Not all the UW I know who remarried were "hot".  Half of them weren't.  So another Trench "theory" proven false.

Smart men don't look for the "hottest" woman they can land.  They look for one they are attracted to who has personal qualities that are desirable.  "Hotness" fades with time.  Character, if it is good, does not.

As for "Roosh", you do know that (a) he struck out in Ukraine, and (b) he lives in his mother's basement, correct?  Is that really someone you wish to emulate?


This post was composed without the aid of google.

He had sex with a fellow language teacher at the language school he was teaching as he states it. He also gives the impression he dated and probably had sex with some others.

I know he lives in he's mothers basement, you showed me the link to the funny story about it, lol :)

No I don't seek to emulate him, I'm not a sex tourist but I don't think that him being one completely discredits he's info & what he discovered while there.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on January 02, 2019, 03:02:07 PM
Bill you wrote about a certain age of woman and their desirability please could you define ages
etc.  I'd just like an insight to that culture.  Especially with a Ukraine  flavour and couch surfers.   
I just have my spider senses tingling.

James,

It's been a moving target and I've been out of the dating scene for 6 years now. It also depends
on other factors including to how hot the girl is, how much money, fame, property, children etc
she has.

Back when I met Angel Eyes I was seeking women from 38 years old and up. 99.9% of those
women were treated like milk past the expiration date. Maybe some glamorous singer or actress
would be part of the .1% That left a lot of beautiful, educated, intelligent, sexy, funny and interesting
women for me to pursue.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 20, 2019, 09:53:58 AM
:ROFL:

Only for the likes of you, Trenchie ..

You KEEP being told ... Most guys searching in the FSU have no problem pulling in their home country ...

You need to ask yourself , "Where am I going wrong?"

Start with your attitude / 'humour' ..

My attitude / 'humour' is not the problem. In general I would say it is down to the different priorities FSW have compared to UK girls. Basically for UK girls these days (and I'm talking about the decades past since you were dating UK women ;) ) the top quality that will score you the most dates with decent looking girls is being socially extrovert. So being able to talk the talk compared to the FSU where being able to walk the walk is more important. In the FSU a guy who can provide and is intelligent is more important since its real bread and butter issues out there. A guy who's not an alcoholic, druggie, mental case, criminal, low life, etc is important in the FSU. A guy who's basically is reasonably loyal and won't drop dead at 30 from the above afflictions. A guy who comes from a society where you can get a decent pension in old age, decent state funded hospitals, etc and of course is available to the girl who finds too few guys around and has been burned by a good few of them.

The problem with UK society is that it doesn't punish the girl for going with the wrong type of guy. If she goes for Mr Dogs Bollocks and he swans off without her knowing who he was the state picks up the bill, not so in the FSU.

So for me the way UK girls are just doesn't at all suit the person I am. They are mostly all the same, they are most bothered about socialising and of course the hopping from bloke to bloke that goes with that. Dating UK women is generally a hopeless cause. The ones that aren't like that are usually undare able, either a string of mental health issues, humougously fat, or very uninspiring sorts.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on January 20, 2019, 10:27:28 AM
My attitude / 'humour' is not the problem.

..and while you STILL feel that way .. despite lots of hints - you're not gonna make it happen..period

Most women want a friend / lover and to belong ... they aren't all Madonna-like social climbers
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Cameraguy on January 20, 2019, 10:54:56 AM
My recommendation for anyone who's truly concerned about losing an FSU woman to the local competition after bringing her home would be to construct an inexpensive but comfortable basement dungeon, combined with an ankle bracelet/GPS tracker for an extra level of security and added peace of mind.




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on January 20, 2019, 10:57:26 AM
My recommendation for anyone who's truly concerned about losing an FSU woman to the local competition after bringing her home would be to construct an inexpensive but comfortable basement dungeon, combined with an ankle bracelet/GPS tracker for an extra level of security and added peace of mind.
Trench has it all planned.

He’s going to chain her to the kitchen sink, get her up the duff repeatedly and deny her any opportunity to better herself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on January 20, 2019, 11:08:16 AM
So for me the way UK girls are just doesn't at all suit the person I am. They are mostly all the same, they are most bothered about socialising and of course the hopping from bloke to bloke that goes with that. Dating UK women is generally a hopeless cause. The ones that aren't like that are usually undare able, either a string of mental health issues, humougously fat, or very uninspiring sorts.


You're deluding yourself. You simply cannot pull a nice, good-looking British girl with personality, and yet you think you're going to get a 9 or a 10 in FSU.

Don't you have any friends who are happily married in the UK to attractive, non-fat, non-mental, non-hopeless causes? If no, then you have to ask yourself why. If yes, then you have to ask yourself why you haven't, and can't, get one.  You blame everyone else for your own misgivings.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2019, 10:50:41 AM
I have expressed my regrets to Patagonie privately, and I do not wish to derail his thread, but I will make one comment.  A society does not change a person.  That person was malleable from the beginning.  You just didn't see who she really was.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

I don't think this is quite accurate. Think hippies & love in the 70s compared to yuppies, money & aids scares of the 80s.

Some people are malleable from the word go others conform to together society that they are in and what they know. I think in this case you are right that she was malleable. As I recall Pat telling us she was an Agency girl who he thought he got on well with and charmed, so much so that she was willing to leave her poor Ukrainian husband first him. He did not know sage was married at together time but had been told by the agency she was single. Correct me on any if this if I am wrong btw it's just from brief memory recall.

Now I know BillyB has often wisely told us on here that an agency girl is always an agency girl and that as such she generally has poor values, i.e malleable. Now of course it depends on if we're talking about dogdy agency or more straight up affair though of course if often difficult time distinguish between the two by the client. I think I vaguely recall Pat saying it may have been an agency where the girl gets a cut, i.e a dodgy one. Once in a while some guy beats  the system and that guy looked like Pat, until the news above came in.

I know how bad Pat must feel right now. I met a girl from Kherson who I thought was into me but now suspect her motives were not decent, it's still all a bit of an odd one so somewhat inconclusive. Anyway, main point is to guard what you can offer together girl and don't rush in wallet waving.

I personally still think that FSW are better kept in check in their own environment.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2019, 11:16:22 AM
The majority of women in Ukraine who are seeking foreigners are doing so to improve their lifestyles.  Love is secondary, or tertiary.  As for malleable, no, she wanted a lifestyle.

You have indicated, time and again, that you would move to the FSU because it hasn't been destroyed by "feminism".  But, Soviet women were feminists before WW were.  That changed with Stalin, however, in Russia and Ukraine, women always "ruled" the family, controlled family finances, etc.  This still often is the case.  In the end, were you to live there, you would find no difference in women.  But instead of wanting a Versace dress, or a new Mercedes, the woman is going to want what is valuable in her society.  That has nothing to do with feminism.


This post was composed without the aid of google.







 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 11, 2019, 02:40:48 PM
In reply to tom there are better looking women in the f s u due to good genes . No macdonalds  and lots of ballet when they were younger and a healthy attitude to diet.  So supply and demand.   I drove round London all day to day and not a decent popa to be seen.    Also when looking at divorced women on my god are there prettier women than in London in the f s u.   More intelligent more family orientated.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2019, 02:43:53 PM
The majority of women in Ukraine who are seeking foreigners are doing so to improve their lifestyles.  Love is secondary, or tertiary.  As for malleable, no, she wanted a lifestyle.

You have indicated, time and again, that you would move to the FSU because it hasn't been destroyed by "feminism".  But, Soviet women were feminists before WW were.  That changed with Stalin, however, in Russia and Ukraine, women always "ruled" the family, controlled family finances, etc.  This still often is the case.  In the end, were you to live there, you would find no difference in women.  But instead of wanting a Versace dress, or a new Mercedes, the woman is going to want what is valuable in her society.  That has nothing to do with feminism.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

A lot of women looking for a western man probably do, do it for a better lifestyle. For WM such as myself it merely brings up a pool of women to meet up with. From that the quest becomes finding one with natural chemistry. I now know many girls try to fake being into a guy just to get a better lifestyle. However, if I find a girl with natural chemistry with me then all other original wants over life style become less pressing, even negligible. In the UK I would not have access to the same quantity or quality of women as in the FSU so much so that it's a non starter in the UK.

If a girl wants what is valuable in Ukraine then it'll be nice and cheap for me ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 11, 2019, 02:44:25 PM
I've had relationships with 8s in UK but they are hard to find in the f s u there is a massive supply
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Patagonie on March 11, 2019, 02:52:55 PM
This only gets better and better.
So a so called PUA trash is what you’re following in your quest?
I’m even more convinced now that you’ll never be successful. I can’t, with all honesty, say I’m not pleased about that.
NB : Roosh had never been a PUA
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2019, 03:05:01 PM
In reply to tom there are better looking women in the f s u due to good genes . No macdonalds  and lots of ballet when they were younger and a healthy attitude to diet.  So supply and demand.   I drove round London all day to day and not a decent popa to be seen.    Also when looking at divorced women on my god are there prettier women than in London in the f s u.   More intelligent more family orientated.

Those sound like environmental, rather than genetic factors.  Ballet does not keep one slim, as it is not aerobic.  The better half worked at the Kyiv Ballet for a while, left because the environment was "rotten", even by Soviet standards.  He said the ballerinas all starved themselves - from stars to the corps de ballet - and all smoked like demons to suppress their appetites.

No, FSUW are not "more intelligent" than women from other countries, and I dare say, I have spent a lot more time around FSU individuals than have you.  Intellectual intelligence is spread fairly equally around the world.  What is not is access to education.

If a girl wants what is valuable in Ukraine then it'll be nice and cheap for me ;D

Sure, if you are living in Ukraine.  But I doubt rather strongly you could live long term in that society. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Patagonie on March 11, 2019, 03:12:28 PM
I don't think this is quite accurate. Think hippies & love in the 70s compared to yuppies, money & aids scares of the 80s.

Some people are malleable from the word go others conform to together society that they are in and what they know. I think in this case you are right that she was malleable. As I recall Pat telling us she was an Agency girl who he thought he got on well with and charmed, so much so that she was willing to leave her poor Ukrainian husband first him. He did not know sage was married at together time but had been told by the agency she was single. Correct me on any if this if I am wrong btw it's just from brief memory recall.

Now I know BillyB has often wisely told us on here that an agency girl is always an agency girl and that as such she generally has poor values, i.e malleable. Now of course it depends on if we're talking about dogdy agency or more straight up affair though of course if often difficult time distinguish between the two by the client. I think I vaguely recall Pat saying it may have been an agency where the girl gets a cut, i.e a dodgy one. Once in a while some guy beats  the system and that guy looked like Pat, until the news above came in.

I know how bad Pat must feel right now. I met a girl from Kherson who I thought was into me but now suspect her motives were not decent, it's still all a bit of an odd one so somewhat inconclusive. Anyway, main point is to guard what you can offer together girl and don't rush in wallet waving.

I personally still think that FSW are better kept in check in their own environment.
Ex wifey cames from an agency and i don't think she got a cut from this agency. The agency pretended her to be single (did she know that ex wifey was married or not? who knows). Her ex husband was not poor by ukrainian standard but not rich, he owned a car and could have some money.
The agency was not dodgy, quite the oppposite. She had been in the past caught cheating with correspondance but i was not having any correspondance with any woman. The agency was surely not a white angel also but not all the girls wanted to see me which is good sign and i gave in my early posts how they looked during the meeting compare to the site profile. I took all phone numbers of women i choose without problem and communicate with them without problem.
My wife was absolutely into me and very jealous in the beginning no doubt about this. When she derailled i detected this from the first hours and got sure in one week that something was wrong, knowing with whom and having all needed proofs.

The western system offers too much to women in divorce where ever she comes, without any obligations. Rights but no obligations.

As Bo said her roots got her back to the rotten way and she didn't take the chance to find her chance and her track on this new life, new country, with new habits. Bad habits came back when she started to spend a lot of time with the local slavic community : a disaster. 

Trench : "I personally still think that FSW are better kept in check in their own environment"That's what i do also believe, but many of us have to leave in their country. So you don't have any choice : you should marry her to live with her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2019, 03:17:54 PM
Trench : "I personally still think that FSW are better kept in check in their own environment"That's what i do also believe, but many of us have to leave in their country. So you don't have any choice : you should marry her to live with her.

You can't keep women "in check".  She is going to be who she is.  The environment she lives in at a given moment has zero to do with who she is.  Again, you are hunting wolves, and then expect them to automatically become sheep.  If you want a sheep, look for one.  Don't hunt a wolf and then expect her to live against her nature.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on March 11, 2019, 03:53:14 PM
In reply to tom there are better looking women in the f s u due to good genes . No macdonalds  and lots of ballet when they were younger and a healthy attitude to diet.  So supply and demand.   I drove round London all day to day and not a decent popa to be seen.    Also when looking at divorced women on my god are there prettier women than in London in the f s u.   More intelligent more family orientated.

You are wrong on 'almost' all of your points.
1)There are plenty of McDonald's there.
2) Ballet doesn't do anything for figure.
3) The diet there is terrible, heavy on fats, etc.
4) They are not more intelligent and family oriented.

The nice asses and shapes you see there are due to walking a lot including walking up and down stairs, and eating less food (even as theirs is unhealthy).

But bring them West and this situation will disappear, without a lot of extra willpower of the woman.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on March 11, 2019, 04:17:07 PM

1)There are plenty of McDonald's there - and loaded potato vendors, etc. and the Mickey D burgers are covered profusely  with mayonnaise
2) Ballet doesn't do anything for figure. - true about the stretch moves, yet the dance practices are demanding aerobic exercises.  And those stretch moves enable some interesting positions.
3) The diet there is terrible, heavy on fats, etc. - true, more so in Ukraine, eating seasoned lard.   
4) They are not more intelligent and family oriented - regarding intelligence , probably correct.  family - not necessarily better than American mothers, yet they differ IMO out of necessity given divorced fathers tend to participate less, yet . 


My take:  FSUW attach a higher value to the staying thin.   Many AW seem to accept being overweight, maybe even comfortable with it,  while FSUW to include their mothers would not accept it.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on March 11, 2019, 04:28:46 PM
Trench, Are you delusional or just naive?

Both Boe and ML understand the reality ~ on the other hand after over 2 years it seems you can not comprehend basic realities of the former Soviet Union. Many others have tried to help you. Moby comes to mind.

I fear any relationship you start in Ukraine or Belarus will not have your dream outcome. Bd
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2019, 04:48:32 PM
My take:  FSUW attach a higher value to the staying thin.   Many AW seem to accept being overweight, maybe even comfortable with it,  while FSUW to include their mothers would not accept it.   

I'm not certain I agree with this.  There are plenty of overweight women in the FSU.  But what you rarely see is women, or men, for that matter, that are 60+ lbs overweight, which is commonly seen in parts of North America.  But I think it is very much a generational thing.  When I look around my city, most overweight individuals are aged 40 plus.  Most of those in their twenties or even their thirties that I see are slim - in their twenties, usually slimmer than Ukrainians.  I assume they all spend time in the gym, although our son is very thin, and in his case, it's just that he walks everywhere, and eats very little (no appetite, he forces himself to eat).

It's not taboo there to discuss a person's weight, but from what I've observed, it's done matter of factly, not in the condascending manner it's done in the West.  Yes, mothers will tell their daughters (and sons) they should lose weight - usually after stuffing them with food.


I think ML is exactly correct on the reasons the people there are thinner, overall.  It's the same throughout most of Eastern Europe, and I believe it is down to moving more.


This post was composed without the aid of google.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2019, 04:51:34 PM
You can't keep women "in check".  She is going to be who she is.  The environment she lives in at a given moment has zero to do with who she is.  Again, you are hunting wolves, and then expect them to automatically become sheep.  If you want a sheep, look for one.  Don't hunt a wolf and then expect her to live against her nature.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

And where do I find a sheep? Dating sites the world over are full of women who want some thing even at home.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 11, 2019, 04:54:04 PM
You won't find one in Ukraine, because you don't know the culture, and the "sheep" for the most part are not interested in meeting foreign men and therefore, are not listed on websites which foreign men use.

PS - Just to clarify, there is nothing wrong with finding a wolf.  Perhaps that is even what some here desire.  It's just that you can't find one type of person, and then expect her to turn into something else.  The same holds true in dating/marrying WW.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 11, 2019, 05:14:07 PM
You won't find one in Ukraine, because you don't know the culture, and the "sheep" for the most part are not interested in meeting foreign men and therefore, are not listed on websites which foreign men use.

PS - Just to clarify, there is nothing wrong with finding a wolf.  Perhaps that is even what some here desire.  It's just that you can't find one type of person, and then expect her to turn into something else.  The same holds true in dating/marrying WW.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

What if I didn't use dating sites, what if I saw a check out girl eye me up in Ukraine and I went up and asked her out?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on March 11, 2019, 05:50:41 PM
I'm not certain I agree with this.  There are plenty of overweight women in the FSU.  But what you rarely see is women, or men, for that matter, that are 60+ lbs overweight, which is commonly seen in parts of North America.  But I think it is very much a generational thing.  When I look around my city, most overweight individuals are aged 40 plus
.

Mrs B   -- years and years ago when driving across the US and into Canada-- from the second we crossed the border  it was obvious that there were  far slimmer people evident  everywhere you looked.
Years later in flying from Atlanta I confirmed that earlier thought  and it was commented on by my business partner who observed the contrast !! ;D

Years ago-- people would say the same of Australians -- but not now -- affluence has made AUS the 2nd fattest country !

As for the fsu -- some of the reasons have been covered --  I have commented previously that even bigger frames can still look good-- because they are not carrying excessive fat.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on March 12, 2019, 01:32:43 AM
In reply to tom there are better looking women in the f s u due to good genes . No macdonalds  and lots of ballet when they were younger and a healthy attitude to diet.  So supply and demand.   I drove round London all day to day and not a decent popa to be seen.    Also when looking at divorced women on my god are there prettier women than in London in the f s u.   More intelligent more family orientated.


Of course there are MORE attractive, family-oriented women. Why do you think most of us are looking there?


What Trench is saying is that there aren't any available in the UK, when the simple fact is of course there are, he just isn't able to attract one. I dislike this 'grading' system of women, but if he can't win a 6 in England, then he won't win an 8 in FSU. It doesn't matter how poor she is, that's the simple reality of life he has to accept.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on March 12, 2019, 01:57:55 AM
What if I didn't use dating sites, what if I saw a check out girl eye me up in Ukraine and I went up and asked her out?


So you speak fluent Russian now?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Chelseaboy on March 12, 2019, 03:36:10 AM
When I was in Kiev 7 years ago I didn't find any check-out girls in the supermarkets who could speak any English.

In fact the girl i'd travelled to meet was astonished i'd been  shopping there are on my own before we met-up.

I did get a lot of eye-contact from hotties in the streets when on my own in Kiev,and I did attempt to get some directions for shops from a couple of them but to no avail.


However,i did find a bloke who could speak English in a phone shop....great.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2019, 06:22:03 AM
When I was in Kiev 7 years ago I didn't find any check-out girls in the supermarkets who could speak any English.

In fact the girl i'd travelled to meet was astonished i'd been  shopping there are on my own before we met-up.

I did get a lot of eye-contact from hotties in the streets when on my own in Kiev,and I did attempt to get some directions for shops from a couple of them but to no avail.


However,i did find a bloke who could speak English in a phone shop....great.

Yeah look hard enough and you're usually find a guy that can speak good English in a phone shop. I know what you mean when I was in Kiev three years ago only a few checkout girls spoke English in central Kiev. The impression I got around was that few spoke English in general but I think I just assumed this as nearly everyone I heard was speaking the native language and as such I was reticient to stand out speaking English. At the time I didn't know its the thing to do plus I was meeting a girl I would be with for the week.

I think as time passes more and more speak English. I noticed in Lviv and also Minsk few checkout girls spoke any English at all. Of course many check out girls aren't the livest but if you catch the eye of the right one. I really just said it for an example, but it could be any every day girl.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2019, 06:25:47 AM

So you speak fluent Russian now?

No, I've been trying to learn basic Russian, some progress made, more to be done. If I can just speak even basic Russian together with a translator who knows. I recall some guy on here many years back married a girl he met on the check outs, he spoke good Russian though.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on March 12, 2019, 09:58:13 AM

 if he can't win a 6 in England, then he won't win an 8 in FSU. It doesn't matter how poor she is, that's the simple reality of life he has to accept.

Not true.

This is the main thing you can do in FSU . . . trade up regarding factors you want.

And the FSUW can also trade up with us . . . regarding the factors they want.

All due to Economics.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on March 12, 2019, 10:45:14 AM
Not true.

This is the main thing you can do in FSU . . . trade up regarding factors you want.

And the FSUW can also trade up with us . . . regarding the factors they want.

All do to Economics.


Exactly, he can trade up in specific areas but must make sacrifices in others. If he can get a 9 or a 10 in appearance, unless he's unbelievably lucky, I doubt she will be in all of the important areas and that will surely defy the whole objective of this pursuit - i.e. - she isn't a 'genuine' 9 or 10. That was my point.


I still don't believe pound for pound Trench can trade a 6 for an 8 when he can't get a 6. He doesn't have the financial muscle, he doesn't have a hugely outgoing personality (his own admission) so the economics don't really come into play.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 12, 2019, 01:06:22 PM

Exactly, he can trade up in specific areas but must make sacrifices in others. If he can get a 9 or a 10 in appearance, unless he's unbelievably lucky, I doubt she will be in all of the important areas and that will surely defy the whole objective of this pursuit - i.e. - she isn't a 'genuine' 9 or 10. That was my point.


I still don't believe pound for pound Trench can trade a 6 for an 8 when he can't get a 6. He doesn't have the financial muscle, he doesn't have a hugely outgoing personality (his own admission) so the economics don't really come into play.

I think what you say has merit Lyndon. I've come to realise that an 8 or more is a grasp for me in the FSU. Not just for me but for many others as well. Not only are a lot of 8's or more trouble in the FSU they will be a problem when you get them home. Through no fault of my own I fall down in the areas you mention, basically wealth and outgoing personality. To many girls both are going to be major negatives even if there is natural chemistry there. There will always be other options for these girls and I'm not going to stack up well against them.

To me thinking about it realistically it doesn't matter to me if a girl is a 5-7. If I can be in a real genuine relationship that is worth more than a girl who is with me for other reasons in the 8-10 looks department. I'm happy getting with a 5-7 there is natural chemistry with and can enjoy each others company without her being hit on by every other guy or her looking at other prospects even as she is with me. If she is slim then she is still far more preferable than the fatties you have here.

It's true that I can't score an 8 here, I have gained the interest of many 8-10 girls here but my lack of an outgoing personality that I cannot change has always screwed up any chance with them. Even 5-7 girls here are often already hooked up with guys so little joy there. The 4 and below girls here are hideous so little point bothering with them, many are flawed personalities anyway.

I think a lot of guys hit problems FSU dating like me as we're assailed all of a sudden by these beauties and don't realise that a lot of them don't take us seriously, we are just an interesting game to them. They can be fun to date but often are not realistic long term marriage prospects. The ones that are, are more likely in the more down to earth looking but still attractive 5-7 looks category. As you rightly state for any WM looking for a 8-10 girl in other categories such as character & personality as well as looks is a real reach, raven for rich guys with outgoing personalities never mind me. Time to be realistic I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on March 13, 2019, 03:07:24 PM
When I was in Kiev 7 years ago I didn't find any check-out girls in the supermarkets who could speak any English.

In fact the girl i'd travelled to meet was astonished i'd been  shopping there are on my own before we met-up.

I did get a lot of eye-contact from hotties in the streets when on my own in Kiev,and I did attempt to get some directions for shops from a couple of them but to no avail.


However,i did find a bloke who could speak English in a phone shop....great.

It's been a long time since I've been to Kiev as well. My Russian was sucked pretty basic
back then and I didn't know Cyrillic back then so I would buy things based on what the picture was.
Hooo Boy, I bought all sorts of things that came in a milk carton that wasn't milk and most of them
didn't go that well on my cereal.

They put yogurt mixed with milk (which did taste good on my cereal) and sour cream which
doesn't taste good on cereal. I had bought some meat, bread and cheese so that I could make
sandwiches. Then I went down the mayonnaise isle.

They had row after row of mayonnaise and I looked at the photo and some would have tomatoes
and some would have other things on the packaging so I bought at least 4 of those squeeze bags
of Mayonnaise thinking that I would be able to have some really interesting and tasty sandwiches
but to my dismay they were all just mayonnaise and I had just bought a year supply for a two
week trip, I should have made potato salad.

I did manage to find a few girls who spoke English that would agree to go out with me when I was
in a restaurant or once at a Pizza kiosk or even one girl who was way to young for me while walking
down the street. It brings back memories

For Newbies: Milk is Молоко pronounced Moloko and sour cream is сметана pronounced smetana.
Russian sour cream is a bit more flavorful than in the USA and it's a bit more runny.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on March 13, 2019, 03:37:39 PM
To me thinking about it realistically it doesn't matter to me if a girl is a 5-7.
If I can be in a real genuine relationship that is worth more than a girl who
is with me for other reasons in the 8-10 looks department.

I'm happy getting with a 5-7 there is natural chemistry with and can enjoy each
others company

Trench, I played college basketball and was sort of a very minor celebrity for a little
while and I've dated some real show stoppers. 99% of the time the show stoppers
weren't worth dating or even sleeping with and the girl a step down in looks was
five times more fun to date and ten times better in the sack.

If you are realistic in the looks department and you sell them on your situation
like I mentioned before, you can find an excellent human being, who is thin,
charming and would love you to death. You have to be very honest up front
and be prepared to write a LOT of girls, but there is a girl out there, you just
have to spend the effort to find her.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on March 13, 2019, 05:31:28 PM
Trench, I played college basketball and was sort of a very minor celebrity for a little
while and I've dated some real show stoppers. 99% of the time the show stoppers
weren't worth dating or even sleeping with and the girl a step down in looks was
five times more fun to date and ten times better in the sack.

If you are realistic in the looks department and you sell them on your situation
like I mentioned before, you can find an excellent human being, who is thin,
charming and would love you to death. You have to be very honest up front
and be prepared to write a LOT of girls, but there is a girl out there, you just
have to spend the effort to find her.

2T is on the right theme here. I am a sucker for a girl with personality  -- not just looks.
Not to say that a girl cannot have both -- but the principle is simple enough -- beauty needs to be more than appearance at first glance.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 13, 2019, 09:24:49 PM

Warning..extreme generalisation alert!

I've dated some real show stoppers. 99% of the time the show stoppers
weren't worth dating or even sleeping with and the girl a step down in looks was
five times more fun to date and ten times better in the sack.

 



Sorry Beel'..simply not my  experience...linking sexual performance as being inversely proportional to looks...

Perhaps comparing the abilities of teenagers to grown women might be the issue ?





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jamesukjames on March 13, 2019, 10:52:52 PM
Have to agree with msmob the stunners are easier to get along with and have less issues in a relationship.   Probably because they have more options if the relationship does not work out.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on March 14, 2019, 09:53:42 AM
I don't have much solid evidence that sexual performance by a woman is directly or inversely related to their physical looks.

Common sense would seem to suggest that those who have a harder time attracting a man might give everything more effort when they are with a man.

However, as I have noted elsewhere, even those gals who hadn't been on a date in years quickly took on the attitude of Prom Queen when finally selected.

One attribute that I do have some solid evidence about is the characterization of the woman when out in public as 'somewhat quiet and reserved' vs 'overtly flirty and suggestive.'

In my experience, the quiet ones turned out better in bed than the flirty ones.

Maybe this is the female analogue of the macho men who brag about their sexual abilities, but in actuality only proceed to quickly satisfy themselves.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on March 14, 2019, 12:08:40 PM
Warning..extreme generalisation alert!

Sorry Beel'..simply not my  experience...linking sexual performance as being inversely proportional to looks...

Perhaps comparing the abilities of teenagers to grown women might be the issue ?

Yes, it was an extreme generalization however my anecdotal experience among super
hot and super beautiful women is that they are more shallow than a hot and beautiful
woman. I'm not the only one who has experienced this.

Sexual performance is more about attitude (and experience) than anything else.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 14, 2019, 02:55:44 PM
Trench, I played college basketball and was sort of a very minor celebrity for a little
while and I've dated some real show stoppers. 99% of the time the show stoppers
weren't worth dating or even sleeping with and the girl a step down in looks was
five times more fun to date and ten times better in the sack.

If you are realistic in the looks department and you sell them on your situation
like I mentioned before, you can find an excellent human being, who is thin,
charming and would love you to death. You have to be very honest up front
and be prepared to write a LOT of girls, but there is a girl out there, you just
have to spend the effort to find her.

I totally agree with this Bill, I think a more everyday looking girl is more in touch with her feelings than a super hot girl. A super hot girl has probably had so many guys it ain't special or even unique for her, one guy becomes just another guy to her and she ends up going through intimacy in a process like manner even if it is fun at the time. A girl who doesn't date every day of the week it will mean a lot more too and she'll react more with naturally tentatively I think which can be nice :)

So a 5-7 for me I think :) My intention in the next few days is to do a profile folder on my computer of girls I see online that fit the 5-7 criteria. This is to act as a safe guard and check facility for me so I can check of each new girl I consider to see that she meets the 5-7 criteria. I feel this is important for me as sometimes I see a girl who is pretty hot looking and consider her a 7 so as to justify to myself that she is alright to go for when she is really an 8 or more and I'm  once again probably walking into trouble. I basically need some other girls profiles to judge her against from when I'm in a logical frame of mind so I can say, 'nope she's at least an 8 compared to these girls and too hot so I won't contact her unless I've worked through all 5-7's when I'm there'. That should hopefully ensure I stick on the straight and narrow :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 14, 2019, 08:04:31 PM
Trench, deal with your own 'feelings' before inflicting your misogynist traits on any woman.

I mean according to you . bringing back a 9 - your terminology- she'd just upgrade when settled in the UK...



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2019, 06:14:42 AM
Trench, deal with your own 'feelings' before inflicting your misogynist traits on any woman.

I mean according to you . bringing back a 9 - your terminology- she'd just upgrade when settled in the UK...

She probably would do, she would have many, many options here of all sorts, very wealthy guys, Mr personalities at every turn, real athletic guys, Movie Star looks guys, etc, etc. As a hot model looking guy would she settle for me? I'm an ok sort of guy, a good all rounder apart from not having social skills I would like to think, but even if she is into me I would be doing well not to lose out to the above guys. Hot model looking girls soon get to know they can pretty much get what they want and they attract a lot of attention. I would be being a fool not to realise that.

To a lot of the hot model type girls the International Dating Scene has become a game. Remember these are the prime targets for sex tourists and they can be numerous. Many of these girls have heard all the guff before and will just regard a real serious guy as a sex tourist whatever. They are caught in a game and even if they get with a guy will have had expectations raised to a real rich dude who they are likely later to screw over. Hot FSW can be good for a bit of fun but extremely few make a serious relationship prospect.

The wiser choice by far I feel is to go for a more everyday looking girl and have a real rather than fake relationship with her. Now I know not all 5-7 girls will be good but they will mostly be from a different more serious dating scene to the 8-10 girls. A real relationship is something I feel I would be happier in and prize more highly than getting with a hot model girl in a fake relationship just for how pretty she looks.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BdHvA on March 15, 2019, 07:34:21 AM
She probably would do, she would have many, many options here of all sorts, very wealthy guys, Mr personalities at every turn, real athletic guys, Movie Star looks guys, etc, etc. As a hot model looking guy would she settle for me? I'm an ok sort of guy, a good all rounder apart from not having social skills I would like to think, but even if she is into me I would be doing well not to lose out to the above guys. Hot model looking girls soon get to know they can pretty much get what they want and they attract a lot of attention. I would be being a fool not to realise that.

To a lot of the hot model type girls the International Dating Scene has become a game. Remember these are the prime targets for sex tourists and they can be numerous. Many of these girls have heard all the guff before and will just regard a real serious guy as a sex tourist whatever. They are caught in a game and even if they get with a guy will have had expectations raised to a real rich dude who they are likely later to screw over. Hot FSW can be good for a bit of fun but extremely few make a serious relationship prospect.

The wiser choice by far I feel is to go for a more everyday looking girl and have a real rather than fake relationship with her. Now I know not all 5-7 girls will be good but they will mostly be from a different more serious dating scene to the 8-10 girls. A real relationship is something I feel I would be happier in and prize more highly than getting with a hot model girl in a fake relationship just for how pretty she looks.

Curious why is every post that you make about what you can get from a woman girl? There is never mention of respect, compatibility or emotional involvement on your part.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2019, 07:59:28 AM
Curious why is every post that you make about what you can get from a woman girl? There is never mention of respect, compatibility or emotional involvement on your part.

That all goes without saying, but do you really think you are going to get that from a 8-10 model looks girl? Many will be already lost in the game by the time you or I meet them to give any of that back. Any respect they may have or emotional attachment will be more for your wallet than yourself. Now some guys do get lucky with that crowd, probably roughly the same number that get lucky with ppl. Now I know someone is going to jump in with the 'hot model girls can be decent too' the odd few maybe and every jock who gets one will start of thinking that. Fact of the matter very few will be, out there, there is big competition amount the women for the best guys, since their are very few rich guys or even decent providers. The girls who aren't in the hot model category will try and get anything half way reasonable and otherwise. Some girls like a game of musical chairs will find themselves without a chair at all looks categories. The hottest of them most likely due to not great character traits will fair game for targeting by sex tourists and most will see out their young lives bobbing up and down on the cock carousel. The longer this goes on for the more colder & unconnected they become. All women know the score out there, it's different to the west, it's a very raw 'you have this you can get that' for the 8-10's at least. I'm pretty sure at the 5-7 category I'll find more women emotionally connected with respect, compatibility, etc.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 15, 2019, 09:28:12 AM
Thanks for confirming just how clueless you are...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2019, 09:41:41 AM
Essentially sex tourists aren't looking for a long term commitment so a 8-10 hot model type girl for them is what they go for. There not bothered  about her being lost in the game as they are just playing along in the game so it's a perfect fit for them. I on the other hand have more serious intentions.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on March 15, 2019, 11:14:21 AM
Essentially sex tourists aren't looking for a long term commitment so a 8-10 hot model type girl for them is what they go for. There not bothered  about her being lost in the game as they are just playing along in the game so it's a perfect fit for them. I on the other hand have more serious intentions.

and with your extensive knowledge about this - I am so impressed you are so knowledgeable how they think and are.. had no idea you're such a player among these types of girls!

So basically you are saying these girls "hot model types" have so little self-esteem and are so shallow they would simply go along with being used like that. Because they don't have the same dreams and aspirations on also settling down, having a family, finding "the one" and have love comfort and peace in their life.

I will immediately tell my girl that, since she is a 9-10, and very hot, and in fact also a real model (and I am more lucky than I ever deserved - I know that)
I have to break up with her tonight  :-[
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2019, 11:49:33 AM
and with your extensive knowledge about this - I am so impressed you are so knowledgeable how they think and are.. had no idea you're such a player among these types of girls!

So basically you are saying these girls "hot model types" have so little self-esteem and are so shallow they would simply go along with being used like that. Because they don't have the same dreams and aspirations on also settling down, having a family, finding "the one" and have love comfort and peace in their life.

I will immediately tell my girl that, since she is a 9-10, and very hot, and in fact also a real model (and I am more lucky than I ever deserved - I know that)
I have to break up with her tonight  :-[

Occasionally it can happen. Often though these girls when they do hook up with a guy it will be a real rich guy or a guy that features well in some other way. I don't know you or your girl so I can't say what the case is with you. If you posted up a picture of yourselves and a little bit of background on each other then there would be something to go on. To date though you have not so I would be shooting blind. All I would say if she is as hot as you say she is she would have been in demand by a lot of guys for a long time, both local and other wise.

The point of my post was that it was a generalisation of the type of scene you get with these girls, not all of them but many/most of them. Not all guys are going to get lucky with an 8-10 model type of girl in terms of a serious relationship, few will do. 5-7 girls on the other had probably have a higher success rate, they don't get the attention most 8-10 girls get. What I am saying is probability wise most guys chances would be greater with the 5-7 girls. Chemistry of course is random and another matter.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on March 15, 2019, 01:22:16 PM
Occasionally it can happen. Often though these girls when they do hook up with a guy it will be a real rich guy or a guy that features well in some other way. I don't know you or your girl so I can't say what the case is with you. If you posted up a picture of yourselves and a little bit of background on each other then there would be something to go on. To date though you have not so I would be shooting blind. All I would say if she is as hot as you say she is she would have been in demand by a lot of guys for a long time, both local and other wise.

The point of my post was that it was a generalisation of the type of scene you get with these girls, not all of them but many/most of them. Not all guys are going to get lucky with an 8-10 model type of girl in terms of a serious relationship, few will do. 5-7 girls on the other had probably have a higher success rate, they don't get the attention most 8-10 girls get. What I am saying is probability wise most guys chances would be greater with the 5-7 girls. Chemistry of course is random and another matter.

You are right, she gets hit on all the time, from bottom feeders to millionaires that could buy a small island for her if she only said yes. Of course most are all after the sex or as "eye candy" and not interested in her as a person.
That is where I won her - by being interested in her, her life, her daughter, her work and interests. My questions intrigued her, my personality charmed her and my life interested her (and I am no millionaire, far far from it)

In short I romanced the shit out of her and now she loves me more than life itself, and that feeling is mutual. So I am very confident that if I don't screw anything up, no other man will ever peak her interest, no matter how good looking, how rich or how famous he is. That is simply something that not matters to her, what we have is unique for us, and that is what makes up our relationship.

and THAT is exactly what you can't grasp, that a woman can love a man to death - no matter who or what he is - and when that feeling is there - no other man stands a chance. So that fear you have - that is all you, all your insecurity, all your misogyny, all your virginity bundled up in a small package of fear - and with that, you are doomed to failure after failure.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2019, 03:12:43 PM
That will never happen, not on this place with the type of characters lurking here.. I already described enough, but something that would identify either of us... not a chance in hell.

but you are right, she gets hit on all the time, from bottom feeders to millionaires that could buy a small island for her if she only said yes. Of course most are all after the sex or as "eye candy" and not interested in her as a person.
That is where I won her - by being interested in her, her life, her daughter, her work and interests. My questions intrigued her, my personality charmed her and my life interested her (and I am no millionaire, far far from it)

In short I romanced the shit out of her and now she loves me more than life itself, and that feeling is mutual. So I am very confident that if I don't screw anything up, no other man will ever peak her interest, no matter how good looking, how rich or how famous he is. That is simply something that not matters to her, what we have is unique for us, and that is what makes up our relationship.

and THAT is exactly what you can't grasp, that a woman can love a man to death - no matter who or what he is - and when that feeling is there - no other man stands a chance. So that fear you have - that is all you, all your insecurity, all your misogyny, all your virginity bundled up in a small package of fear - and with that, you are doomed to failure after failure.

Ok, so you're a Mr Personality, what can I say some people have that gene and play it for all it's worth, some people don't have it. Now I can tell you now on my VO's I have been interested in the girl, messaged her a lot and tried/been interested to get to know her. I've taken flowers each time and presents, one as you know I even bought her stuff I did that as I thought it a nice thing to do and at the time she seemed to appreciate it. Now I know you probably pride yourself in excelling beyond me on the personality front, most personality guys I have come across do particularly when there is a hot woman around. If there is one negative characteristic of the Mr Personality types it is they gloryfy themselves it playing their trump 'personality' card when they can use it to get a hot girl and make those without such look bad in the process. You're basically the same as an 8-10 girl that uses her looks but you use your personality, i.e  what you were already given from birth, and please don't tell me you worked on it, it really is something that is assigned from birth.

My post was aimed at a lot of those FSW hunting who like myself are out there as they are not Mr Personality nor necessarily that wealthy, etc. It was for those guys who might pull a 8-10 in the FSU only to get her home to be used as a mule, done out of money, or she 'upgrades'. I'm no worse than many a man on this venture, many guys are by their nature a bit mysogynist but they get on perfectly fine for the most part. There's nothing wrong with realising the pitfalls and where you are weak or strongest. Let's face it many men each year, particularly in the US take home a FSW and she then makes off elsewhere/with another guy as soon as her green card comes through - I don't believe for one moment they were all insecure mysogynists. What I'm saying for the ordinary everyday guy without any great trump card to play such as Personality, wealth, etc is look at ordinary everyday girls who will be a realistic serious prospect, ie the 5-7's.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2019, 03:48:59 PM
Or to put it another way, could I see Melania Trump dating me?

Hmmnnnn....  ::)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 15, 2019, 04:53:44 PM
My post was aimed at a lot of those FSW hunting who like myself are out there as they are not Mr Personality nor necessarily that wealthy, etc. It was for those guys who might pull a 8-10 in the FSU only to get her home to be used as a mule, done out of money, or she 'upgrades'. I'm no worse than many a man on this venture, many guys are by their nature a bit mysogynist but they get on perfectly fine for the most part. There's nothing wrong with realising the pitfalls and where you are weak or strongest. Let's face it many men each year, particularly in the US take home a FSW and she then makes off elsewhere/with another guy as soon as her green card comes through - I don't believe for one moment they were all insecure mysogynists. What I'm saying for the ordinary everyday guy without any great trump card to play such as Personality, wealth, etc is look at ordinary everyday girls who will be a realistic serious prospect, ie the 5-7's.


Some time ago, I posted a story of a UW who married a friend (UM), and bled him dry, even trying to have his apartment transferred to her.  She was, at best, a "3".  Where a woman stands in attractiveness has nothing to do with whether or not she is going to stay with you.  It is her inner qualities that matter.


You look at this from a fundamentally flawed perspective because you assume you are not worthy (and you are a misogynist - that will hurt you more than anything), with little to offer a woman.  That is the wrong approach, and it won't matter if she is a "5" or a "10", at the end of the day, it is you who will determine your fate, not the perceived beauty, or lack thereof, of any woman you import.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 15, 2019, 05:35:28 PM

Some time ago, I posted a story of a UW who married a friend (UM), and bled him dry, even trying to have his apartment transferred to her.  She was, at best, a "3".  Where a woman stands in attractiveness has nothing to do with whether or not she is going to stay with you.  It is her inner qualities that matter.


You look at this from a fundamentally flawed perspective because you assume you are not worthy (and you are a misogynist - that will hurt you more than anything), with little to offer a woman.  That is the wrong approach, and it won't matter if she is a "5" or a "10", at the end of the day, it is you who will determine your fate, not the perceived beauty, or lack thereof, of any woman you import.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I also know of women that have bad character traits who aren't even a 3. Of course character traits can vary, you can have good and bad traits regardless of what the woman looks like. The point being though is that most 8-10 girls with good cYacter traits will be already in a relationship with local FSUM over there. That just mainly leaves the 8-10 girls with bad character traits. All the 1-7 girls will likely vary more with character traits. In general though a 1-7 girl will know she can't get what a 8-10 girl gets in terms of a wealthy guy, a few will hold out for one but many will know it will be unlikely.

I don't think of myself as unworthy but I do know my strengths and weaknesses. I can offer a girl some things but not others, I'm not as wealthy as some guys knocking around but I own my own house in a nice enough area, not all guys can say that in the UK these days. I can generally get on with people ok and am fairly easy going. So hopefully it will be a case of finding the right girl, I can't really change as a person so it's just a question of trying and seeing how it goes.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 15, 2019, 05:46:17 PM
Most UW, no matter what they look like will marry, and most of them will marry UM.  There is a balance of men to women at the age most Ukrainians marry.  Some of those men will marry women with bad character traits, just as some of those women will marry men with bad character traits. So your logic is rather flawed.


You don't know your weaknesses.  That is evident from your posts.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2019, 05:17:48 AM
Most UW, no matter what they look like will marry, and most of them will marry UM.  There is a balance of men to women at the age most Ukrainians marry.  Some of those men will marry women with bad character traits, just as some of those women will marry men with bad character traits. So your logic is rather flawed.


You don't know your weaknesses.  That is evident from your posts.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

What according to you then is my weaknesses?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on March 16, 2019, 05:36:52 AM
How many times must Boethius and others point out that you needed to deal with your misogynist characteristics?

That you absorb nought and like to post your hypothetical bollox is another thing to work on...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 16, 2019, 07:05:02 AM
How many times must Boethius and others point out that you needed to deal with your misogynist characteristics?

That you absorb nought and like to post your hypothetical bollox is another thing to work on...

Is that it, my weakness is that I'm mysogynist. Mobe & Boe, FSUM would put me to shame, many of them ruthlessly and mercilessly beat their wives for no reason. By their standards I am very liberated, if anything my mysogyny as you put it is closer to FSU gender roles and will be familiar even comforting to FSW, I have been told many a time they are not looking for a guy with feminist values as it's alien to them and doesn't exist in mainstream FSU society save a few lesbian weirdos.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BC on March 16, 2019, 02:34:38 PM
Is that it, my weakness is that I'm mysogynist. Mobe & Boe, FSUM would put me to shame, many of them ruthlessly and mercilessly beat their wives for no reason. By their standards I am very liberated, if anything my mysogyny as you put it is closer to FSU gender roles and will be familiar even comforting to FSW, I have been told many a time they are not looking for a guy with feminist values as it's alien to them and doesn't exist in mainstream FSU society save a few lesbian weirdos.

Funny stuff.. two years and 100 pages of Trench trying to convince us of what he is or isn't, instead of doing so on a date with a FSUW. Something ain't adding up.

Sorta like going on a date with a slim woman and complaining about UK women being fat.. he doesn't know it but the first thought that pops in her head is "what's gonna happen when I put on a few lbs?" 

Self defeating.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 16, 2019, 03:04:28 PM
Is that it, my weakness is that I'm mysogynist. Mobe & Boe, FSUM would put me to shame, many of them ruthlessly and mercilessly beat their wives for no reason. By their standards I am very liberated, if anything my mysogyny as you put it is closer to FSU gender roles and will be familiar even comforting to FSW, I have been told many a time they are not looking for a guy with feminist values as it's alien to them and doesn't exist in mainstream FSU society save a few lesbian weirdos.

Another myth. FSUM do not beat women at rates higher than do WM. The difference is society’s attitude to this.

Are you aware that the default position in FSU households is for the husband to hand his paycheque to his wife, and she manages all household finances?  Is that a "value" you will adhere to? 

As I posted, FSUW had most rights fought for by feminists in the West in the 1920's.  The societal attitude toward women is different, but your neanderthal views are not the norm there-far from it.  Your attitudes toward women will not be “comforting” to FSUW, and they certainly are not in line with the gallantry FSUM routinely display. The ideas you present about FSUW and their views are presented to you to manipulate you. The place of women in Western societies and the FSU are no different. Don’t believe me?  Ask pitbull or Belvis.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on March 16, 2019, 03:20:03 PM
Is that it, my weakness is that I'm mysogynist. Mobe & Boe, FSUM would put me to shame, many of them ruthlessly and mercilessly beat their wives for no reason. By their standards I am very liberated, if anything my mysogyny as you put it is closer to FSU gender roles and will be familiar even comforting to FSW, I have been told many a time they are not looking for a guy with feminist values as it's alien to them and doesn't exist in mainstream FSU society save a few lesbian weirdos.
:shock:

I might be reading something in to this that isn't there, but .....
Do you understand what a misogynist is?

beating wives? what does that have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 17, 2019, 05:02:21 AM
Another myth. FSUM do not beat women at rates higher than do WM. The difference is society’s attitude to this.

Are you aware that the default position in FSU households is for the husband to hand his paycheque to his wife, and she manages all household finances?  Is that a "value" you will adhere to? 

As I posted, FSUW had most rights fought for by feminists in the West in the 1920's.  The societal attitude toward women is different, but your neanderthal views are not the norm there-far from it.  Your attitudes toward women will not be “comforting” to FSUW, and they certainly are not in line with the gallantry FSUM routinely display. The ideas you present about FSUW and their views are presented to you to manipulate you. The place of women in Western societies and the FSU are no different. Don’t believe me?  Ask pitbull or Belvis.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Nonetheless, it is well known that FSW are more feminine than feminist. WM go to the FSU for the very reason that they don't like the society that feminism has created in the west in regard to the females it creates, the WW. Are they all mysogynist too? There going to the FSU to escape feminist values that has caused the problem dating WW, they are not going to the FSU hoping to find the same. Yet some of them are successful, after all why else would they be going there?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on March 17, 2019, 06:16:18 AM
They are not "more feminine".  They dress differently, because the competition for men is different.  I call it flower/bee.

Every man who has come here moaning about Western "feminists", and their existence is the reason why he is "forced" to look abroad, has ended up divorced. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 17, 2019, 08:52:07 AM
They are not "more feminine".  They dress differently, because the competition for men is different.  I call it flower/bee.

Every man who has come here moaning about Western "feminists", and their existence is the reason why he is "forced" to look abroad, has ended up divorced. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

They dress more in skirts and dresses as women should and don't try to get into competition with the guy but want to work with him. Whatever the outcome I know I'm better of staking my bet there than in the UK. If I did get with a UK girl no way would I marry her, tats just one big bad deal for the guy where all power & wealth flow to her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: lyndontom on March 17, 2019, 09:11:15 AM
They dress more in skirts and dresses as women should and don't try to get into competition with the guy but want to work with him. Whatever the outcome I know I'm better of staking my bet there than in the UK. If I did get with a UK girl no way would I marry her, tats just one big bad deal for the guy where all power & wealth flow to her.


Trench, you aren't capable of getting with a decent UK girl. You think you have a chance with one in FSU because you can hide what you can't with those women who speak the same language as you and understand the reality of your life in UK.


The problem is, you don't spend enough time in FSU to stand any chance of finding the needle in a haystack that you might be able to get.


The only chance you have is if you stop hypothesising and spouting BS and go live in FSU. Only then will you have ANY semblance of credibility and any chance of getting a woman. I suspect though it will be a wake up call because of of what you theorize to be correct is in fact not.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on March 17, 2019, 11:36:08 AM
They are not "more feminine".  They dress differently, because the competition for men is different.  I call it flower/bee.

Every man who has come here moaning about Western "feminists", and their existence is the reason why he is "forced" to look abroad, has ended up divorced. 

I'm not going to moan about Western feminists but I'll have to disagree with you
regarding more feminine. My wife has long hair and there isn't a 40+ woman that
I know of in the USA that doesn't have a typical lesbian hair style. You talked about
flower bee and I totally agree with you there.

I am expected to kill any bug, spider or crawly thing, open doors, carry anything that
isn't weightless (except for her purse).  That does NOT mean that she is powerless or
doesn't have an opinion or is some sort of fictional 1950's Maryanne Cunningham or
June Cleaver.

Hmmmmm.............

I could go on and on but maybe I should start a new thread as this thread is
where things go to die.

I started a new thread here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=23556.new#new
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 13, 2019, 12:02:03 PM
This mentality is part of the reason you will fail.  You have a "market" approach to relationships. so stop posting here how what  you want is love.  Your attitude proves you don't.

Yes, sure, lie and lead on a woman for the benefit of your penis.  Waste time and energy on someone you have no interest in.  What forty plus man needs to "practice" and "learn" about women???

I think this particular woman already has a man, which is why the "events" have been so "pious".

As for cabs, I am just saying what the practice is in Kyiv.  A man either escorts a woman home, or gives her cab fare, if he is able to do so. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

She may already have a man, if she does I doubt she'll be willing for BB to escort her home.

Boethius, it is not I that have a 'market' approach to UW but UW themselves that have a 'market' approach. I have no need to fall in with this market approach unless the UW makes it the basis for the relationship. That is not to say there is no love but that age is logical in approach and wishes to operate on a market basis. She has decided that she wants to go on holiday with BB and wants other stuff from him, yet she had shown him no great affection beyond the mandatory meeting gestures. She is showing him no love (and I don't mean sex) yet is basing the relationship on wants, well BB has wants too, that is what he wrote here about. She is already determining that she wants this or that from the relationship but is giving no love or even great affection in return. So if she wants a such a market relationship she has to expect that BB have 'wants' in return. Remember this girl is 34 and long past the prime age so she could also be single and unable to find a relationship based on purely love so such a market relationship may logically be the best she can hope for.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 13, 2019, 12:04:54 PM
You prove yet again why you are not cut out for a UW. 

So, UK women are all either too fat or mercenary to date, and UW also have a mercenary attitude to relationships.  What is the common factor in the analyses here?

A UW who truly wishes to marry and have a family does not exhibit a "market" approach to potential suitors.  Don't believe me?  Ask the majority of the married men here. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 13, 2019, 01:54:58 PM
You prove yet again why you are not cut out for a UW. 

So, UK women are all either too fat or mercenary to date, and UW also have a mercenary attitude to relationships.  What is the common factor in the analyses here?

A UW who truly wishes to marry and have a family does not exhibit a "market" approach to potential suitors.  Don't believe me?  Ask the majority of the married men here. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

They no doubt dont, it's not the ideal situation. I was just stating that it is not me that starts of on a market footing, I never do, it is the girl. From there out I have no choice but to move to a market footing. Some girls may well be single because they are like that in Ukraine, it wouldn't surprise me, some of course may just be playing a game. Whether they may form a marriage and family on a market footing with a guy and whether both are happy with that is another matter. Sometimes perhaps if two people really can't find someone or struggle to find someone on a purely love footing who says they can't have a happy family life with a deal that both understand and are content striking.

Krimster on here seems to have allured to his relationship being somewhat in that direction. I'm not saying it's something to aim for, I don't but f it just happened to come about and suit both parties it could still be a hell of a lot better than living a single lonely life with nothing much in it. I was just outlining for BB routes he could explore to help him understand more, it's up to him what routes he decides to take.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 13, 2019, 02:39:54 PM
OMG

yet more Trench attempting to be the Marjorie Proops of the board.. :wallbash:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjorie_Proops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjorie_Proops)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 18, 2019, 12:18:10 PM
There are two categories TR of people : the ones who can afford and the ones who cannot. As a matter of fact when this girl tells you that she has an interesting situation it means that not. Degree are very common in FSU among women.
Don't understand this story of visa, what you mean.

She didn't say she had an interesting situation but I found it so since I hadn't heard a lot directly from FSW at that point about the way they lived. I know a lot of FSU do degrees, they can be easy going to get, sometimes with cheating as a part of the course, sometimes diplomas even bought.

The visa thing, well she said to me that she wants to come to the UK next to visit me. She refused to see me where she lived in Kherson until she had been to the UK first. I explained for that she would need a tourist visa and due to her low paid retail job she would be refused (even Moby agrees on that point). Basically because unless she has something worthwhile to return to then she is deemed too big a risk by UK Customs. She kept repeating that I had promised her and accused me of already being married and a criminal. We had previously discussed holiday & her visiting the UK but to me it was a casual discussion. If the word 'promise' was said, I can't remember to be honest then it was something she said that I didn't realise she would be holding me to in such a fixed way. My intention was with of course to bring her to the UK at some point but due to UK Customs it would take time to work through. My view was that we could meet up in the mean time, she was pretty much impossible to make any progress with on that one. So it all ended.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Patagonie on April 18, 2019, 01:05:25 PM
She didn't say she had an interesting situation but I found it so since I hadn't heard a lot directly from FSW at that point about the way they lived. I know a lot of FSU do degrees, they can be easy going to get, sometimes with cheating as a part of the course, sometimes diplomas even bought.

The visa thing, well she said to me that she wants to come to the UK next to visit me. She refused to see me where she lived in Kherson until she had been to the UK first. I explained for that she would need a tourist visa and due to her low paid retail job she would be refused (even Moby agrees on that point). Basically because unless she has something worthwhile to return to then she is deemed too big a risk by UK Customs. She kept repeating that I had promised her and accused me of already being married and a criminal. We had previously discussed holiday & her visiting the UK but to me it was a casual discussion. If the word 'promise' was said, I can't remember to be honest then it was something she said that I didn't realise she would be holding me to in such a fixed way. My intention was with of course to bring her to the UK at some point but due to UK Customs it would take time to work through. My view was that we could meet up in the mean time, she was pretty much impossible to make any progress with on that one. So it all ended.
TrenchFirst of all, do you have had any intimacy with this woman (sex i mean)?How much hours have you spend with her?

I read now "so it all ended".

Ok. So the first rule : you have a real relationship with her and after you could invite her to UK.  Second i am not sure that the tourist visa is serious if you want to marry her later. In France it's more like private visit. With you inviting her.
Second the threat : i will show my home pay for me a travel in UK doesn't work. But of you course you have to let come along you and show you more of her privacy.

"We had previously discussed holiday & her visiting the UK but to me it was a casual discussion" Trench if you have not a real relationship with her this not a casual discussion, it's an invitation for a FSU woman, hope you remind the lesson. You need to understand something Trench they live on a DAILY basis, so when a westerner say oh we could do this and we could do that they print it as "we are about to do this and that". It's better to say nothing AND to do it.

When we were in our second year of dating with ex wifey, she was still in Ukraine. It was her birthday. I called her "baby what do you think to have a diner tonight together i really want to see you". A blank happened and she asked "where are you". At Boryspil. She couldn't believe it, i had to give the phone to the waitress of the bar. It was a shock for her and she was totally  and her mother like into a trance for the next hours. Raise emotions, not your tongue. 

The bla bla with FSU women, as they have been raised in a world of lying and cheating, has no more value than a keyboard for Bill Gates.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 18, 2019, 01:31:52 PM
TrenchFirst of all, do you have had any intimacy with this woman (sex i mean)?How much hours have you spend with her?

I read now "so it all ended".

Ok. So the first rule : you have a real relationship with her and after you could invite her to UK.  Second i am not sure that the tourist visa is serious if you want to marry her later. In France it's more like private visit. With you inviting her.
Second the threat : i will show my home pay for me a travel in UK doesn't work. But of you course you have to let come along you and show you more of her privacy.

"We had previously discussed holiday & her visiting the UK but to me it was a casual discussion" Trench if you have not a real relationship with her this not a casual discussion, it's an invitation for a FSU woman, hope you remind the lesson. You need to understand something Trench they live on a DAILY basis, so when a westerner say oh we could do this and we could do that they print it as "we are about to do this and that". It's better to say nothing AND to do it.

When we were in our second year of dating with ex wifey, she was still in Ukraine. It was her birthday. I called her "baby what do you think to have a diner tonight together i really want to see you". A blank happened and she asked "where are you". At Boryspil. She couldn't believe it, i had to give the phone to the waitress of the bar. It was a shock for her and she was totally  and her mother like into a trance for the next hours. Raise emotions, not your tongue. 

The bla bla with FSU women, as they have been raised in a world of lying and cheating, has no more value than a keyboard for Bill Gates.


You make some excellent points Pat :) Yes, I had intimate relations with her for the one week we were together in Kiev and the other week we were together in Cyprus. We lived together for both weeks, Kiev in an apartment and Cyprus in a hotel.

You make a very good point about the way to do less talk more do. I've been doing the doing but have gone about it the wrong way, I see that now from what you are saying. I need to play the game not so straight of the bat and realise though I try and talk as honestly as possible, FSW will not see/know that and put little value in my talk so better for me to do and do the doing the right way. I apprieciate your words Pat :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 18, 2019, 01:43:21 PM
Yeah, I should have just gone to Kherson anyhow, I see that now. Even if it went south I could have looked for another girl there straight off the bat.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Patagonie on April 19, 2019, 01:20:40 AM
Other thing, reading more informations you wrote about this girl.
There is a moment when you have to put the plug.

If she comes with a tourist visa (i don't advise this) she has to provide an amount of money let say
60€ per day, so she has to show that she has this money on an account. Many members could tell you more about this. So for 10 days it's 600€.
Many ukrainians people don't have such amount and anyways they don't trust banks.

If you want her to come it's your job to provide for her. You invite her, so be ready to assume your invitation.

In 2009 one of the first lady i was dating in Kiev, i invited her to come to my place. That was a mistake, i had no real relationship. I sent her 3000€, flight, visa, and money to guarantee her living in France as a tourist. She got the visa and after she didn't want to come suddenly.
I grab a plane and ... she got me back almost all the money. We spent more time together. She was not dishonest but she was a beauty and she had options in such big city. She was on EM.

There is a moment when you have your shirt to be wet (french expression)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 20, 2019, 08:40:29 AM


I think in the case of Yuliya here, yeah she seems a pretty girl and nice & sweet. Still with a child, beggars can't be choosers as the saying goes.



Ha, she get plenty of offers, you muppet -  YOU are the beggar-boy, the bottom of the pile ..esp. re this lass .. NO chance
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 20, 2019, 08:56:15 AM
Ha, she get plenty of offers, you muppet -  YOU are the beggar-boy, the bottom of the pile ..esp. re this lass .. NO chance

How many WM have actually visited her though?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 20, 2019, 09:01:50 AM
How many WM have actually visited her though?

Considering she has never been on a western oriented dating site ..NONE
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 20, 2019, 09:09:14 AM
Ha, she get plenty of offers, you muppet -  YOU are the beggar-boy, the bottom of the pile ..esp. re this lass .. NO chance

So where does this statement come in, who has visited her if no WM have?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 20, 2019, 09:47:07 AM
So where does this statement come in, who has visited her if no WM have?

"Plenty of offers" ... WHERE did I mention western guys ?  :wallbash:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 20, 2019, 09:56:45 AM
"Plenty of offers" ... WHERE did I mention western guys ?  :wallbash:

And yet in her late thirties with a child she is still looking? So presumably we are talking of local guys the if not WM. I assume her lack of a permanent fixture gives rise to the point that most local guys will just see a late thirties girl with a kid as only suitable for short term flings as nice as she is.

When she hits forties her looks could start to slide. If she is serious about finding a guy the she should start looking at WM pronto. A serious LTR can at least be found with a WM.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Patagonie on April 20, 2019, 10:20:59 AM
With a pay rise that has just come through I make £16.5k a year now which is approx $21.5k. That's at a historically low exchange rate of around $1.30 ish to the pound if we took the medium of around $1.60 to the pound as in more usual times it would be a lot more in dollars. I've always tended to get the impression that it tends to be easier for US workers to get paid more than UK workers. There are bigger economies of scale in the US owing to bring the larger size of the country and the far larger companies that work within it.

Take Walmart of instance, they dominate in the US, but when they bought out ASDA about twenty years back now they failed to dominate in the UK market in the same way since it's far harder for companies to have as big a consumer base in the UK owing to out small size.

I think in the case of Yuliya here, yeah she seems a pretty girl and nice & sweet. Still with a child, beggars can't be choosers as the saying goes. There are many attractive looking girls in the FSU, problem Yuliya will have is getting a WM to coming and choose her.

Main thing is too many FSW I get the impression have too much of an unrealistic expectation of what they can get. Most think they will be getting millionaires but if they toned down their expectations they could end up in a better place with someone rather than with no one at all.
Trench,I have discussed this topic with someone who had been a friend for six years. Married to an ukrainian girl, LIVING there and he had spent a lot of time in Europe. They had a marriage agency and two other businesses.

Trench definitively your income it far too low to get back an FSU woman at home. And that not a question of what their expectations are, too high or too low.

He was considering that 60000€ are needed for such endeavor, and i did agree with him.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 20, 2019, 10:48:16 AM
So, Trench will not admit he's ASSumed much and persists in making more daft ASSertions


And yet in her late thirties with a child she is still looking? So presumably we are talking of local guys the if not WM. I assume her lack of a permanent fixture gives rise to the point that most local guys will just see a late thirties girl with a kid as only suitable for short term flings as nice as she is.

When she hits forties her looks could start to slide. If she is serious about finding a guy the she should start looking at WM pronto. A serious LTR can at least be found with a WM.

Sorry Trench,  this is the end of the' fishing trip', for you !

IF she joins a W.orientated dating site - you can write to her .... just don't expect an answer ...other than thanks, but no thanks ..






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 20, 2019, 10:54:00 AM
With a pay rise that has just come through I make £16.5k a year now which is approx $21.5k.

Thank you for the clarification. I don't like making mistakes when I disparage
somebody. Some of my sons friends don't quite make double what you do,
but they will. I made less than $21.5K in 1986, but more in 1987.

I think you need to double your income to be successful. I talked about trying
to get somebody to buy into the lifestyle but if you marry a woman under 38
she is going to want kids and then that plan would go down in flames.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GenMish on April 20, 2019, 11:04:29 AM
Trench,I have discussed this topic with someone who had been a friend for six years. Married to an ukrainian girl, LIVING there and he had spent a lot of time in Europe. They had a marriage agency and two other businesses.

Trench definitively your income it far too low to get back an FSU woman at home. And that not a question of what their expectations are, too high or too low.

He was considering that 60000€ are needed for such endeavor, and i did agree with him.

From what I remember, Trench makes 40k BP and owns a home outright, that's about a 60k equivalent if you include free UK state health and well priced public transportation . She will have to learn how to be frugal though, and be OK with it

I have a little different issue. Because of the lifestyle I lead, I would have to invest at least 250k in just the first 5 years for a  fsu lady with one child. A contact in Russia put me in touch with an excellent lady, 38 with one adorable young child. She has a good education, career, and could enter the workforce after adjusting and language classes to earn 50-75k here
1) Is it worth the investment risk? because things could go south and I am out a tidy sum
2) Do I want to be a dad again to a young child?
3) Could I be a good dad to a child that is not mine?
4) I am beginning to like being single
She has shown commitment, and would take a two week leave from work if I came out. We skype once or twice a week on video and text daily or every other day. I feel I need to let her know something in the next few weeks

25 years ago, it was a no brainer, it was an obvious choice. Now? Me Mid 50s?


edit: I just saw Trenchs post on his income. I think Bill is right, you probably need double that
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on April 20, 2019, 11:08:05 AM
 

I think you need to double your income to be successful. I talked about trying
to get somebody to buy into the lifestyle but if you marry a woman under 38
she is going to want kids and then that plan would go down in flames.

What do you mean? You think money is that important to be 'successful'? Money=success? That is if one wants to buy their way into every situation.

What about personality, values, realistic expectations???
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on April 20, 2019, 11:14:02 AM
From what I remember, Trench makes 40k BP and owns a home outright, that's about a 60k equivalent if you include free UK state health and well priced public transportation . She will have to learn how to be frugal though, and be OK with it

I have a little different issue. Because of the lifestyle I lead, I would have to invest at least 250k in just the first 5 years for a  fsu lady with one child. A contact in Russia put me in touch with an excellent lady, 38 with one adorable young child. She has a good education, career, and could enter the workforce after adjusting and language classes to earn 50-75k here
1) Is it worth the investment risk? because things could go south and I am out a tidy sum
2) Do I want to be a dad again to a young child?
3) Could I be a good dad to a child that is not mine?
4) I am beginning to like being single
She has shown commitment, and would take a two week leave from work if I came out. we skype once ot twice a week on video and text daily or every other day. I feel I need to let her know something in the next few weeks

25 years ago, it was a no brainer, it was an obvious choice. Now? Me Mid 50s?


edit: I just saw Trenchs post on his income. I think Bill is right, you probably need double that

Is it me or don't you think there is not a mesh there? A man could grow comfortable in his own hair.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on April 20, 2019, 11:43:12 AM
Still with a child, beggars can't be choosers as the saying goes.

Begging is not in the nature of FSUW.   They have too much pride to ever think they are at a disadvantage.   

Do not treat someone as if her choices are so few that she should be happy with you.   She will resent you.   



When she hits forties her looks could start to slide.

Perhaps, yet she will never behave as if that were the case, much less admit it to any man.  Heck, she may not even admit it to herself.   

Be guided by the fact FSUW very much appreciate a man who makes them feel beautiful. It is a simple yet important  concept.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Patagonie on April 20, 2019, 11:48:13 AM
From what I remember, Trench makes 40k BP and owns a home outright, that's about a 60k equivalent if you include free UK state health and well priced public transportation . She will have to learn how to be frugal though, and be OK with it

I have a little different issue. Because of the lifestyle I lead, I would have to invest at least 250k in just the first 5 years for a  fsu lady with one child. A contact in Russia put me in touch with an excellent lady, 38 with one adorable young child. She has a good education, career, and could enter the workforce after adjusting and language classes to earn 50-75k here
1) Is it worth the investment risk? because things could go south and I am out a tidy sum
2) Do I want to be a dad again to a young child?
3) Could I be a good dad to a child that is not mine?
4) I am beginning to like being single
She has shown commitment, and would take a two week leave from work if I came out. We skype once or twice a week on video and text daily or every other day. I feel I need to let her know something in the next few weeks

25 years ago, it was a no brainer, it was an obvious choice. Now? Me Mid 50s?


edit: I just saw Trenchs post on his income. I think Bill is right, you probably need double that
First you will have a different lifestyle, guarantee, but that does not mean that you will safe some money quite the opposite.

About her earning 50/75 k in the future, may i ask you what do let think such thing? I will be more cautious about this expectation. My ex wifey, i hoped her to work and bring 13k (basic wage) but life showed me that she didn't want to work.

I think that you could be a good dad, i think i wasn't the best one and not really wanted a dad finally BUT compare to many situations i met in my life i was offering a good family, and the natural father of my daughter and babooshka always gave me all their confidence.
The adventure is risky, yes. Especially if you are wealthy knowing the prevalent misandry in our western courts and the dysfonctional laws

Do you consider that you could stop to work and live abroad ? In this case you should reconsider all the parameters.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 20, 2019, 12:08:35 PM
What do you mean? You think money is that important to be 'successful'? Money=success? That is if one wants to buy their way into every situation.

What about personality, values, realistic expectations???

I think you would agree with me that you have to be significantly above the
poverty line to be able to afford this endeavor. If Trench made $40K, I wouldn't
disparage his chances, but at $22K he is barking up the wrong tree.

Did you read the post below?

With a pay rise that has just come through I make £16.5k a year now which is approx $21.5k.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on April 20, 2019, 12:17:40 PM
I think you would agree with me that you have to be significantly above the
poverty line to be able to afford this endeavor. If Trench made $40K, I wouldn't
disparage his chances, but at $22K he is barking up the wrong tree.

Did you read the post below?

Trench has a lot more serious character issues with himself...….. income being further down the list. Or do you disagree with me?


If you had a migraine issue, would you be talking about a papercut on your finger?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 20, 2019, 12:26:54 PM
25 years ago, it was a no brainer, it was an obvious choice. Now? Me Mid 50s?

Unless you really, really want to do this I would say no.

When was the last time you were woke up in the middle of the night
because a woman wanted to have sex with you? Or made you sigh
because you were so in love with her? (and she loved you twice as
much) For me it's an all the time thing.

However, it took 9 years of searching and failure to get where I am
today. For me it was worth it, but I wouldn't tell others to go through
what I went through. There were huge ups and downs and disappointments 
and starting over completely from scratch.

I enjoyed the hunt but the disappointments were really tough sometimes.
This endeavor isn't for everyone. Each person must decide on their own
whether they want to spend the time, efforts, emotions and money to
pursue an Eastern Gal.

As you've posted, once you've won her heart you're just getting started.
Now you really have to spend the time, effort, emotions and MORE money
to keep an Eastern Gal.

Nobody can make this decision besides yourself.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 20, 2019, 12:31:40 PM
Trench has a lot more serious character issues with himself...….. income being further down the list. Or do you disagree with me?

If you had a migraine issue, would you be talking about a papercut on your finger?

LAdewd

Trench, reads what we write but never acts on it. There are 10 members and 58
Guests viewing this topic right now. I write advice to Trench for them more than
for him.

The Newbies can read this thread and glean 8 or 9 (or more) lessons from it. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 20, 2019, 12:48:17 PM
Begging is not in the nature of FSUW.   They have too much pride to ever think they are at a disadvantage.   

Do not treat someone as if her choices are so few that she should be happy with you.   She will resent you.   



Perhaps, yet she will never behave as if that were the case, much less admit it to any man.  Heck, she may not even admit it to herself.   

Be guided by the fact FSUW very much appreciate a man who makes them feel beautiful. It is a simple yet important  concept.   

  Another top post!!
Gator -- you have made a series of posts that show great wisdom ,common senses and insight -- in threads that have nothing to do with DT !!

( a ps that is why I cannot understand why you are not more critical of the DT issues)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 20, 2019, 12:52:57 PM
What do you mean? You think money is that important to be 'successful'? Money=success? That is if one wants to buy their way into every situation.

What about personality, values, realistic expectations???


Well --it is pretty clear the Trenchcoat has none of these  !!

Plus he is a pauper that is stuck in the "i own my home" bs to justify his arrogant stupidity .Pounds to peanuts that situation was not a result of his own endeavours.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on April 20, 2019, 01:58:32 PM
LAdewd

Trench, reads what we write but never acts on it. There are 10 members and 58
Guests viewing this topic right now. I write advice to Trench for them more than
for him.

The Newbies can read this thread and glean 8 or 9 (or more) lessons from it.


Because Trench never acts on it is reason why I NEVER give him any advice( other than directions/apt), what for?

You may claim advice is for newbies but people always think advice is for someone else( not them).


It's been several years people here have been harping on money issue, for some girl's it IS very important, for other's it is not most important. Girl I was seeing from Odessa gave me a valuable lesson one time. She was at party/club one night, she met this guy and spent some time getting to know him. She was one who always looked at shoes to form an impression, he had good shoes. At end of night, he gave her some money for taxi to get home, a few days later she found out it was the only money he had. He walked home that night( took several hours). Quite the impression this gave, a big reason she was with him, gave him a child...….  it had little to do with money but it had everything to do with sacrificing.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 20, 2019, 02:31:32 PM
It's been several years people here have been harping on money issue, for some girl's it IS very important, for other's it is not most important.

It doesn't matter what the girl thinks, Trenchy lives in Blighty. He makes less than
the minimum allowed by the UK gov'mit. Therefore he is wasting his and her time.

Spouse Visa UK Financial Requirements
If you plan on joining your Spouse or Civil Partner in the UK, you must first be aware
of the Spouse Visa financial requirements and exceptions. The financial threshold that
you will be required to meet falls upon your British partner's (your UK sponsor) income.
He/she must earn a minimum annual amount of £18,600.

http://us.iasservices.org.uk/visas/spouse-visas/spouse-visa-financial-requirements/

With a pay rise that has just come through I make £16.5k a year now which is approx $21.5k.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LAman on April 20, 2019, 02:48:32 PM
It doesn't matter what the girl thinks, Trenchy lives in Blighty. He makes less than
the minimum allowed by the UK gov'mit. Therefore he is wasting his and her time.

 
 

Even if Trench made triple his wages it wouldn't change anything, he is wasting his and girl's time.


Issue is not money, it's between the ears.....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on April 20, 2019, 03:09:06 PM
Another top post....I cannot understand why you are not more critical of the DT issues

Thanks.  I responded in the Trump thread. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 20, 2019, 03:47:48 PM
It doesn't matter what the girl thinks, Trenchy lives in Blighty. He makes less than
the minimum allowed by the UK gov'mit. Therefore he is wasting his and her time.

Spouse Visa UK Financial Requirements
If you plan on joining your Spouse or Civil Partner in the UK, you must first be aware
of the Spouse Visa financial requirements and exceptions. The financial threshold that
you will be required to meet falls upon your British partner's (your UK sponsor) income.
He/she must earn a minimum annual amount of £18,600.

http://us.iasservices.org.uk/visas/spouse-visas/spouse-visa-financial-requirements/

That is correct but we have been through this before. I can do more hours and earn more money overnight. I only need phone my company and they will give me more work that will easily take me over the £18.6k. Once I have met a girl then I will do that, I then only have to keep up those hours for a minimum of six months to qualify. It's going to take at least Six months to get to know the girl and marry her so I've got loads of time to do it.

Increasing my income is on my mind, stuff is happening and will hopefully come through soon. Earning more money in the UK is not an easy feat, competition with is heavy in virtually everything you do here. I can't afford to let time slip by either as I'm not getting any younger so I need to keep at it even if I'm not financially in the best position. If I find the right girl then as you say bill a lot of those issues shouldn't matter too much.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 20, 2019, 04:20:35 PM
Well anyway, I got to doing a lot of thinking this evening. I was thinking about what I had said on here to BB about the girl who got him to buy the premium cat food, wanted the holiday, etc almost seemingly being in a different group to pro daters.

I believe I was entirely correct in this but I was unsure of the parameters of such a group, their motives, etc. I believe I cracked it tonight after I suddenly fell in with it all. The Kherson girl I had met in Kiev as you know wanted me to buy her clothes all the time, BB's girl wanted him to buy her stuff that was outside usual dating parameters out there. Essentially they are 'girls who want stuff' (no surprises there ;) ) BUT who don't want to become pro daters. They may have many reasons for not wanting to become pro daters.

As JayH I think told us they can make far more money as pro daters, so why don't they? It's a no brainer, they would be able to then get all of what they want. In fact why aren't most of the population of Ukraine at it? You don't even have to be an attractive lady, as we know they will use guys to letter write if needs be. The girl is only a little bit handy if they get guys who visit since a website needs some guys to see girls or  word would spread.

I think that they don't pro date as the girls who do it have a bad reputation right? Otherwise they would be so many at it. I believe they are seen as prostitutes that is why 'girls who want stuff' don't go the more lucrative pro date route. The shame they would bring on themselves and hence their family would be too embarrassing for them. That is why the girl from Kherson did not wish me to visit her. If a girl is seen around with a foreign guy and around the same time she has a load of new clothes, etc she is going to be labelled a pro dater and hence a prostitute. Since if course girls that date straight don't get a load of stuff, they just get the dinner date or whatever paid for and the odd gift, not loads of stuff. That is why the girl from Kherson call the girls that go to AFA tours there prostitutes as she mixed them up with the pro date girls of AFA ppl  website - she assumed that because some of those girls turn up to the tour date then they are all prostitutes that go there. We know of course from the vids of the AFA tours that there are plenty of girls there that are nothing like prostitutes or pro daters.

My thoughts on BB's girl is that she is counting on Kiev being a large city, not sleeping with him on moral/religious grounds, not introducing him to family or friends and then just asking for certain stuff that would largely go unnoticed/off the radar so if anything did come up she could deny anything. There would be little in the way if goods or knowledge of her getting 'involved' with a foreign guy to give the look that she has gone pro date.

I pretty much think that is it with those girls. Some may eventually end up turning pro date, some may settle down with a western man or a local guy. Of course if the girl becomes known locally as a pro date girl hence prostitute her reputation and hence chances with any local guy can be ruined which is why such girls go to great lengths to conceal their goings on while they try for to 'get what they want of guys'.

For me this really does square it all away and fit perfectly. I can be a bit of a genius at time if I don't say so myself, don't y'all think ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 20, 2019, 06:51:08 PM
You spent all evening ...'thinking'

THAT was your mistake..

I am guessing I am not alone in reading this and slapping my forehead?

Some guys manage to find gals who care about how they feel about their potential partner...not what others think ......

THINK about that...!




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 20, 2019, 06:59:08 PM
Plus, for all that thinking, he came to the wrong conclusion.


No one in Ukraine thinks taking advantage of foreign men is in any way shameful or scandalous.  Some even think it clever.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 20, 2019, 07:20:32 PM
Trench,

transcend or perish...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 20, 2019, 08:31:16 PM
This is BB's thread, Trench has plenty of threads already.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 20, 2019, 08:32:30 PM
no man is an island unto himself
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 21, 2019, 01:22:24 AM
Plus, for all that thinking, he came to the wrong conclusion.


No one in Ukraine thinks taking advantage of foreign men is in any way shameful or scandalous.  Some even think it clever.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Really, why aren't they all at it then in a big way full time? It's a lucrative business.

Donna Pedro's (who IS Russian) reaction when we spoke about girls who ask for stuff and return it with favours was 'urgh prostitution'.

Scamming a foreigner with a trick is one thing but a girl spreading her legs to get stuff I think won't be looked well upon, it can't be a good look for them.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 21, 2019, 01:57:59 AM
Everything fits, both the Kherson girl and the Nikolaev girl had hang ups about meeting in a hotel, why? Because meeting a foreigner in a hotel is instantly associated with the girl is having sex with him, it's what pro daters are associated with, meeting foreigners in hotels for sex - BUT only in pro date areas. Kherson & Nikolaev are part of the AFA tour route among others, Nikolaev is centre of the pro date industry.

Compare that to the girl I met in Lviv, she was oblivious to any problem of meeting in a hotel. Her response to my mention of it was, 'what for going up a flight of stairs, why would it? Lol' she thought it sounded silly. Reason being able s that Lviv has no pro date industry as bill confirmed, hence there is no equating there meeting foreigners in hotels with pro dating. It has a very specific locality around pro date regions.

Girls who are seen with foreigners in pro date regions who express a desire for a relationship is one thing, but girls who are seen with a load of stuff are no doubt thought of as pro date prostitutes, not a nice image for a girl.

In all capitalist societies there are hierarchies, a girl that goes out and does a professional job for a living will look down upon a girl who spreads her legs for a living, with locals or with foreigners. I'm pretty sure I'm right in this one, credit where it's due here I think :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 21, 2019, 08:40:58 AM
when I was a young fella, I used to travel to some pretty remote out of the way places
it’s a kind of courtesy to fellow travelers that you don’t “distort” the local economy by handing over too much money to the locals, because then prices and expectations are set to an inflated level

and this what a bunch of naive, unsophisticated and socially awkward western guys did in the FSU, and screwed things up for their fellow travelers by creating an inflated expectation in the locals

Odysseus is instructed by Tiresias to take an oar from his ship and to walk inland until he finds a "land that knows nothing of the sea"

it’s called the “Winnowing Oar”
winnowing, is the practice of blowing a current of air through the grain in order to remove the chaff

He who has ears to hear, let him hear...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GenMish on April 21, 2019, 09:47:53 AM
First you will have a different lifestyle, guarantee, but that does not mean that you will safe some money quite the opposite.

About her earning 50/75 k in the future, may i ask you what do let think such thing? I will be more cautious about this expectation. My ex wifey, i hoped her to work and bring 13k (basic wage) but life showed me that she didn't want to work.

I think that you could be a good dad, i think i wasn't the best one and not really wanted a dad finally BUT compare to many situations i met in my life i was offering a good family, and the natural father of my daughter and babooshka always gave me all their confidence.
The adventure is risky, yes. Especially if you are wealthy knowing the prevalent misandry in our western courts and the dysfonctional laws

Do you consider that you could stop to work and live abroad ? In this case you should reconsider all the parameters.

It was unsolicited request by her, early on she said she wanted to continue with a career. One of her degrees is in high demand. The job market in the USA is quite good. So good, Trench could land a 40k/yr job if he devoted his plotting Kiev trip thinking time to professional training time
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 21, 2019, 10:18:58 AM
so many opportunities to make money these days!!!!  it's crazy!!!!
my oldest daughter makes around $400 per month ghostwriting term papers and selling her study notes
she's also is an artist like me and sells her artwork and jewelry online and makes about $1,000/month from that
all while going to high school full-time and college part-time (she's 17)
back when I was kid, I had a lawn mowing business that could net me $20 per week
but now Mexicans have taken that golden opportunity away from me, build the wall NOW I say!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 21, 2019, 10:45:05 AM
so many opportunities to make money these days!!!!  it's crazy!!!!
my oldest daughter makes around $400 per month ghostwriting term papers and selling her study notes
she's also is an artist like me and sells her artwork and jewelry online and makes about $1,000/month from that
all while going to high school full-time and college part-time (she's 17)
back when I was kid, I had a lawn mowing business that could net me $20 per week
but now Mexicans have taken that golden opportunity away from me, build the wall NOW I say!!!

She obviously very talented Krim. If I were to paint it would take me ages and unlikely that I would get decent enough money to justify the time. If you're talking about online essay "examples" type of stuff I could do some history ones but chances are they would just get a 2:1 kind of mark and again be time consuming bother for me. So a lot of the time a lot of the stuff I could do wouldn't be worth the bother. I have an idea I may run with soon but it will just be a case of seeing whether it fly's or not.

Theoretically I could do Architecture Plans, planning and design but again payoff to reward can be not that great. For that it's getting the work in the first place then all the hassle if doing it for not great financial reward.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Patagonie on April 21, 2019, 10:56:19 AM
It was unsolicited request by her, early on she said she wanted to continue with a career. One of her degrees is in high demand. The job market in the USA is quite good. So good, Trench could land a 40k/yr job if he devoted his plotting Kiev trip thinking time to professional training time
That's very good for you and fortunate to live in USA for this purpose.
Spend time with her, a maximum time. Don't rush in the marriage proposal or you will be hooked in the process with only one option : continue or bail out.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 21, 2019, 11:41:06 AM
lots of people just "flip" stuff
buy low sell high
I like the "value added" approach
where you take "A" add "B" and sell it as "C"
I have several online businesses and my wife started a cosmetics and beauty products company that I help her with
my children are the shipping department for one of my online businesses
an added benefit is geographic independence
how hard would it be for you to be a part-time "estate agent"?
I flipped property in Sevastopol for 3 years and could "make a living" doing this
but not a business I really like
here in the states I've bought some "rentals" but I don't like this business either...
I'm also a silent minority partner in my cousin's MRI clinic - now THAT's a business!!!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 21, 2019, 11:58:21 AM
It’s a real bummer because I was reallly staring to like her...

I did have a gal visit me from Kiev and of course my Angel Eyes came to visit
me in the USA twice. The girl from Kiev never asked me for anything and I
had already visited Angel Eyes 4 times before she came here.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 21, 2019, 12:04:27 PM
lots of people just "flip" stuff
buy low sell high
I like the "value added" approach
where you take "A" add "B" and sell it as "C"
I have several online businesses and my wife started a cosmetics and beauty products company that I help her with
my children are the shipping department for one of my online businesses
an added benefit is geographic independence
how hard would it be for you to be a part-time "estate agent"?
I flipped property in Sevastopol for 3 years and could "make a living" doing this
but not a business I really like
here in the states I've bought some "rentals" but I don't like this business either...
I'm also a silent minority partner in my cousin's MRI clinic - now THAT's a business!!!!

Wow, your kids must be busy all the time Krim, don't they get tired of it all a bit at times?

Flipping properties I could do as I have some DIY skills and could do quick cosmetic makeovers. I would just have to be careful not to buy before a downturn. With my knowledge on building I could probably avoid a real turkey but that's always a danger to some extent, getting to know an area and good buys can also be handy as knowing a country's property trends. Property has gone down in Ukraine in recent years so I guess I would have avoided the cliff edge, it would have been my luck to invest just before it, lol.

Estate Agent, well as it happens I did two weeks work experience in an Estate Agency when I was at school, it was fun at the time but to be honest I would find it too much bother I think.

Flip stuff online I guess could be possible but unless Igor onto the right thing it could end up time consuming bother for me so idk.

Online internet business has its appeal, like you say it gives geographic independence which appeals to me. The idea I have in mind is an internet business so if it works out it could be good. I'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 21, 2019, 12:32:23 PM
"Wow, your kids must be busy all the time Krim, don't they get tired of it all a bit at times?"

no...
my oldest in particular is focused on being "successful" and works quite hard at it
she's interviewing in Moscow this August to work with a high profile charity in Russia
means I gotta go to.... sigh....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 21, 2019, 01:29:14 PM
Really, why aren't they all at it then in a big way full time? It's a lucrative business.

Your misogyny is on display again.

Quote
Donna Pedro's (who IS Russian) reaction when we spoke about girls who ask for stuff and return it with favours was 'urgh prostitution'.

Donna Pedro grew up at a different time.

In 1999, in a survey of Russian schoolchildren, "prostitute" was the #1 aspiration of girls.  Personally, I believe this is one (not the sole, but one) of the reasons why the former KGB was so adamant about seizing power in the country.

Quote
Scamming a foreigner with a trick is one thing but a girl spreading her legs to get stuff I think won't be looked well upon, it can't be a good look for them.
Not all pro daters "spread their legs" as you so eloquently (sarcasm) state.

I repeat - most Ukrainians don't care, and scamming foreigners in any manner whatsoever is not viewed negatively.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 21, 2019, 02:03:28 PM
Your misogyny is on display again.

Donna Pedro grew up at a different time.

In 1999, in a survey of Russian schoolchildren, "prostitute" was the #1 aspiration of girls.  Personally, I believe this is one (not the sole, but one) of the reasons why the former KGB was so adamant about seizing power in the country.
Not all pro daters "spread their legs" as you so eloquently (sarcasm) state.


I repeat - most Ukrainians don't care, and scamming foreigners in any manner whatsoever is not viewed negatively.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

And yet you sidestep the question, why aren't they all doing it?

If it's the no.1 choice of schoolgirls why aren't they all doing it?

Why do any of them bother to study, uni, other jobs? It would be far easier and more lucrative if they all made a beeline for the pro-rate field, sex or no sex.

I personally don't put much stock in the survey you mention, schoolgirls were probably responding for a laugh. If there was much truth in that then FSW would have no issue visiting hitels, being seen as prositutes by the doorman, hotel staff. They would all be jumping into bed with every foreigner that visited. It just doesn't bear out. At least some of those women are going to want family and children and a decent husband who will stand by them. Are the guys there going to be happy while all girls are so loose they will sleep with anyone?

I'm sure scamming a foreigner is just fine but a girl having sex with one and getting stuff, to my mind that ain't going to go down real well.

Remember those pics a poster here put up, think it was possibly with JayH or Nightwish. The one with the CCTV cameras then the pic of the old Babushka's in their stead. Girls would not be so afraid of their gossip with getting with a WM on a sex for stuff basis was a badge of honour out there. If it were they would all too willing let the old Babushka's see.

What I'm saying all adds up to everything we have discussed on this Forum, what you say is lacking in anything solid Boe.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 21, 2019, 02:16:46 PM
And yet you sidestep the question, why aren't they all doing it?

I didn't sidestep the question.  It's a stupid question.

Why aren't all men  living on $20,000 a year and dreaming of marrying a foreign women who will be tied to the bed and kitchen, with aspirations of nothing more than a shop girl career for some pin money?

Quote
If it's the no.1 choice of schoolgirls why aren't they all doing it?

Did you look at the date of the survey?  The government changed this attitude.

Quote
Why do any of them bother to study, uni, other jobs? It would be far easier and more lucrative if they all made a beeline for the pro-rate field, sex or no sex.

See above.  Most UW marry UM.  They have no desire to meet, let alone marry, WM.

Quote
I personally don't put much stock in the survey you mention, schoolgirls were probably responding for a laugh. If there was much truth in that then FSW would have no issue visiting hitels, being seen as prositutes by the doorman, hotel staff. They would all be jumping into bed with every foreigner that visited. It just doesn't bear out. At least some of those women are going to want family and children and a decent husband who will stand by them. Are the guys there going to be happy while all girls are so loose they will sleep with anyone?

Prostitution exploded in the FSU after the collapse of the USSR. That is what the survey was about.  It was enough of a concern for the government that it started propaganda campaigns to change that attitude.

Quote
I'm sure scamming a foreigner is just fine but a girl having sex with one and getting stuff, to my mind that ain't going to go down real well.

And you discerned this, exactly, how?  From your vast on ground experience in Ukraine?  From your fluent Ukrainian?  From the Kherson girl who scammed you for a trip and clothing, then found a way to dump you so that you still don't understand you were manipulated?

Quote
Remember those pics a poster here put up, think it was possibly with JayH or Nightwish. The one with the CCTV cameras then the pic of the old Babushka's in their stead. Girls would not be so afraid of their gossip with getting with a WM on a sex for stuff basis was a badge of honour out there. If it were they would all too willing let the old Babushka's see.

LOL. That is a completely separate issue.

Quote
What I'm saying all adds up to everything we have discussed on this Forum, what you say is lacking in anything solid Boe.

What I am saying is common knowledge among Ukrainians, and anyone who thinks.  That you choose to ignore it is due to your own failure to recognize reality on the ground.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 21, 2019, 02:37:44 PM
Scamming a foreigner with a trick is one thing but a girl spreading her legs to get stuff I think won't be looked well upon, it can't be a good look for them.

I read this to the better half.  He laughed out loud.  He said your mentality is shaped by your society.  In Ukraine, their mentality is shaped by their society, which is a totally different society, shaped by different factors, and which you don't understand.

Quote
Everything fits, both the Kherson girl and the Nikolaev girl had hang ups about meeting in a hotel, why? Because meeting a foreigner in a hotel is instantly associated with the girl is having sex with him, it's what pro daters are associated with, meeting foreigners in hotels for sex - BUT only in pro date areas. Kherson & Nikolaev are part of the AFA tour route among others, Nikolaev is centre of the pro date industry.

How would someone in her city (Kherson or Nikolayev) know she was in a hotel in Kyiv?

No, as the BH points out, it is because in some hotels, she will be shaken down by the local roof, and will have to pay 60% or 70% of her cash to them.  A local will know which hotels those are, a girl not from the city will not.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 21, 2019, 02:51:39 PM
I didn't sidestep the question.  It's a stupid question.

Why aren't all men  living on $20,000 a year and dreaming of marrying a foreign women who will be tied to the bed and kitchen, with aspirations of nothing more than a shop girl career for some pin money?

Did you look at the date of the survey?  The government changed this attitude.

See above.  Most UW marry UM.  They have no desire to meet, let alone marry, WM.

Prostitution exploded in the FSU after the collapse of the USSR. That is what the survey was about.  It was enough of a concern for the government that it started propaganda campaigns to change that attitude.

And you discerned this, exactly, how?  From your vast on ground experience in Ukraine?  From your fluent Ukrainian?  From the Kherson girl who scammed you for a trip and clothing, then found a way to dump you so that you still don't understand you were manipulated?

LOL. That is a completely separate issue.

What I am saying is common knowledge among Ukrainians, and anyone who thinks.  That you choose to ignore it is due to your own failure to recognize reality on the ground.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

I don't see that the Babushka surveillance is completely separate. The Kherson girl I met could have let me care her in Kherson. She would have the honour of scamming me I j front of locals. The girl getting stuff of BB isn't showing him to her family, why not? Surely think of the honour she would have bestowed from parading him like Vercingetorix in front of her family, 'hey this is the foreign dude I'm scamming' all bragging right to me!

The example of the survey you give is Russia not Ukraine. I remember back that direction there was a doc on TV able young female prostitutes who ended up with HIV and ending up being shunned by all living under fly over type of situation with fellow females in the same position. You said they had a propaganda campaign to change that. Any chance that campaign was hard hitting to achieve an opposite affect of stimatising prostitution in order for the campaign to succeed.

All of the stuff I have heard and talked about on here tells me there is an issue with girls being seen as prositutes. Yeah of course they want to get with UM, it is supposed to be the thing to do early in life out there. What is the UM men they are interested in going to do if they are prosituting themselves. Regardless of whether he is local or foreign I'm pretty sure it will be a turn off to him with other girls just devoted to him willing to take her place.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 21, 2019, 02:55:13 PM
I don't see that the Babushka surveillance is completely separate. The Kherson girl I met could have let me care her in Kherson. She would have the honour of scamming me I j front of locals. The girl getting stuff of BB isn't showing him to her family, why not? Surely think of the honour she would have bestowed from parading him like Vercingetorix in front of her family, 'hey this is the foreign dude I'm scamming' all bragging right to me!

Apples and oranges.

Quote
The example of the survey you give is Russia not Ukraine. I remember back that direction there was a doc on TV able young female prostitutes who ended up with HIV and ending up being shunned by all living under fly over type of situation with fellow females in the same position. You said they had a propaganda campaign to change that. Any chance that campaign was hard hitting to achieve an opposite affect of stimatising prostitution in order for the campaign to succeed.

Most HIV in Ukraine is transmitted through drug use, not sex.

Quote
All of the stuff I have heard and talked about on here tells me there is an issue with girls being seen as prositutes. Yeah of course they want to get with UM, it is supposed to be the thing to do early in life out there. What is the UM men they are interested in going to do if they are prosituting themselves. Regardless of whether he is local or foreign I'm pretty sure it will be a turn off to him with other girls just devoted to him willing to take her place.

I speak fairly often to Ukrainians living in Ukraine, and Ukrainians who have recently emigrated.  While this isn't exactly a common topic of conversation, I did specifically ask about this, in terms of the pervasiveness of the "MOB" industry/webcam girls, etc.  Everyone knows someone in these "industries", and they don't care.

Most of the scammers and pro daters in Ukraine are married, or have UM partners who know exactly what they are doing. 

The most disconcerting thing to me, in asking about Ukrainians' lives, is just how many are nostalgic for the Soviet past, including Ukrainians who grew up in a post Soviet society. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 21, 2019, 03:17:47 PM
Apples and oranges.

Most HIV in Ukraine is transmitted through drug use, not sex.

I speak fairly often to Ukrainians living in Ukraine, and Ukrainians who have recently emigrated.  While this isn't exactly a common topic of conversation, I did specifically ask about this, in terms of the pervasiveness of the "MOB" industry/webcam girls, etc.  Everyone knows someone in these "industries", and they don't care.

Most of the scammers and pro daters in Ukraine are married, or have UM partners who know exactly what they are doing. 

The most disconcerting thing to me, in asking about Ukrainians' lives, is just how many are nostalgic for the Soviet past, including Ukrainians who grew up in a post Soviet society. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

So you are saying that the girl I met and the girl BB met may be already married, and presumably the guy they are married to are ok with them doing this?

Still doesn't really answer the question though of why do these girls go at it the way they did with me & BB, going for the small cash prizes as it were when they could earn way more money working as an Agency girl as JayH tells us, $300 dollars a week or whatever. Why aren't all girls doing this rather than retail jobs of much poorer pay and long hours?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on April 21, 2019, 04:05:23 PM
So you are saying that the girl I met and the girl BB met may be already married, and presumably the guy they are married to are ok with them doing this?

Look at the 'Red Light District Gals' in Amsterdam.

I read that for many of them, their husbands drive them to and from work.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on April 21, 2019, 04:12:15 PM
So you are saying that the girl I met and the girl BB met may be already married, and presumably the guy they are married to are ok with them doing this?

There is a reason some refer to the MOB business as a "dirty barrel." 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 21, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
A few months ago T was out for drinks with her friend K and her husband.  K's husband's friend also joined them ( "Guy 2" for reference) .

Guy 2's wife earns a living by emailing western men from dating sites and scamming for money.  T thought it very scandalous and distasteful.  Not scandalous in what the woman was doing, but that Guy 2 would be with such a woman.  K didn't think much of it - whatever floated Guy 2 and his wife's boat.

So, some people are ok with scamming, some look down on it, and others don't care either way but don't do it themselves.

What TC fails to realize is that FSU women are WOMEN - real people.  They are not a category of study or comtemplation, like talking about a species of plants or type of rock.  Like women and people in general, some have strong morals, some have flexible morals, and many are somewhere inbetween. 

There are women in London/Paris/New York who will only bat their eyes and sweet-talk to men who show up in McClarens and Ferraris.  There will be other women who couldn't care less.  And there will be many who take a glance and/or make a comment and then move on.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 21, 2019, 10:10:29 PM
So you are saying that the girl I met and the girl BB met may be already married, and presumably the guy they are married to are ok with them doing this?

Any woman you meet anywhere could be married. Most aren’t, but it doesn’t mean automatically that one isn’t.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 22, 2019, 12:23:07 AM
There is a reason some refer to the MOB business as a "dirty barrel."

Ple-eaase refrain from using those dreadful terms.

The former suggests any person using a one to one dating site is  doing something wrong and the second suggests one's partner is chosen from an unclean place..


Using either term supports the notion


One of the dreadful people using such  terms dislikes the use of 'FSU' .... :barf:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2019, 12:57:50 AM
Any woman you meet anywhere could be married. Most aren’t, but it doesn’t mean automatically that one isn’t.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

I wouldn't rule it out, I had checked out her social media pages, VK, Facebook and the one they do when they are younger out there (forget it's name at the moment). Nothing on any of them of photos, friend stuff that would suggest such. Of course I guess it could have all been purged of that well in advance. I tended to get the impression that what her situation was that she was telling me was the truth although could not know for certain. She did say to me she had never lied to me (she thought/accused me of being married, lol hence part of her reason for wanting to visit me in the UK). She was of course manipulative though.

Still doesn't explain why she doesn't go for the big Agency girl money though. The site I found her on was a free site, we communicated over a three month period before meeting, over one month of which stopped logging onto her profile as we were emailing/WhatsApp so she wasn't looking to correspond with other guys on there during that time. I found no profile of her on the other main dating websites and web searched using her photo, nothing apart from her social media stuff. Her photos were nice reasonable quality photos, but none of them were pro photos or studio photos. Like I've said in the past she's easily an 8-10 girl and photo wise shoots very well so could be an agency girl if she wanted to, so why doesn't she do that? Would beat the hell out of her shop work job.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Maxx2 on April 22, 2019, 01:29:25 AM
Ple-eaase refrain from using those dreadful terms.

The former suggests any person using a one to one dating site is  doing something wrong and the second suggests one's partner is chosen from an unclean place..


Using either term supports the notion


One of the dreadful people using such  terms dislikes the use of 'FSU' .... :puke:


Sounds like something Andrew would say.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on April 22, 2019, 01:32:44 AM
Trench, why don’t you try something different this trip.

Find two women your age on fdating (40+)...... One with a school aged child and one without. Spend the remaining time you have getting to know them online.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with both and change your attitude regarding the type of woman you’re looking for.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2019, 02:00:36 AM
Trench, why don’t you try something different this trip.

Find two women your age on fdating (40+)...... One with a school aged child and one without. Spend the remaining time you have getting to know them online.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with both and change your attitude regarding the type of woman you’re looking for.

I would like to have children if at all possible. 40+ women aren't really in the age group for that. I admire t the girl was a bit young I went for she was 25 but she seemed serious. With hindsight and what I learnt it was probably not a good idea. I'm now looking more 30s.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2019, 02:02:26 AM
Ple-eaase refrain from using those dreadful terms.

The former suggests any person using a one to one dating site is  doing something wrong and the second suggests one's partner is chosen from an unclean place..


Using either term supports the notion


One of the dreadful people using such  terms dislikes the use of 'FSU' .... :barf:

Nothing wrong with the concept of ordering a girl from a catalogue to marry, all signed, sealed and delivered Mobers ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Patagonie on April 22, 2019, 04:59:23 AM
I wouldn't rule it out, I had checked out her social media pages, VK, Facebook and the one they do when they are younger out there (forget it's name at the moment). Nothing on any of them of photos, friend stuff that would suggest such. Of course I guess it could have all been purged of that well in advance. I tended to get the impression that what her situation was that she was telling me was the truth although could not know for certain. She did say to me she had never lied to me (she thought/accused me of being married, lol hence part of her reason for wanting to visit me in the UK). She was of course manipulative though.

Still doesn't explain why she doesn't go for the big Agency girl money though. The site I found her on was a free site, we communicated over a three month period before meeting, over one month of which stopped logging onto her profile as we were emailing/WhatsApp so she wasn't looking to correspond with other guys on there during that time. I found no profile of her on the other main dating websites and web searched using her photo, nothing apart from her social media stuff. Her photos were nice reasonable quality photos, but none of them were pro photos or studio photos. Like I've said in the past she's easily an 8-10 girl and photo wise shoots very well so could be an agency girl if she wanted to, so why doesn't she do that? Would beat the hell out of her shop work job.
TR, you made a good work here. IMHO she was a legit girl.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2019, 06:18:32 AM
Ple-eaase refrain from using those dreadful terms.

The former suggests any person using a one to one dating site is  doing something wrong and the second suggests one's partner is chosen from an unclean place..


Using either term supports the notion



And all this time I thought your moniker msMOB was some play on the first term.  ;D 

I used the terms to simplify the basic facts with Trenchcoat, who goes through a rigorous analysis yet sometimes still gets on the river de Nile.    And aren't we among experienced friends here who for the most part know the truth.  If that does not excuse me, please recognize I used the term "some," implying not many and not me. 

Let's expand regarding the terms.  I agree, both terms are derogatory, and do not describe the preponderance of relationships developed in this endeavor.  Yet, both terms contain some element of the truth.   

The MOB term is an incorrect oversimplifying of some stark differences between WM-FSUW marriages and marrying someone from normal social circles.  These differences usually include:

1) ogling a "catalog" of women living in a distant country,
2) spending on average much less face time getting to know each other than with a woman from your normal social circles,
3) disregarding the obvious that to the contrary the couple should have spent more time together because of language, culture, and age barriers, and
4) having to wait through an immigration process to complete the marriage, 


Regarding "dirty barrel," the history of "American boy meets Russian girl" is replete with examples of unscrupulous agencies milking WM, unsavory men behaving as sex tourists,  insincere women faking interest to derive income or to get out of the FSU, and devastating setups of unsuspecting men (e. g., the Maxx's). 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2019, 07:31:54 AM
TR, you made a good work here. IMHO she was a legit girl.

Thanks Pat, yeah I used a lot of internet search stuff, googled her name etc. I know her name was real as I went on holiday with her, ie passport, etc. She told me about her family life her brother and his other half and their kid they live with. I don't think the kid was hers, she told me it was her brother's and I think this was true. She showed me pics and the stuff she talked to me about gave me the impression she was being honest and straight up. That is what messed with my mind so much. She seemed to be being honest with me but at the same time she was manipulative. To me I don't associate the two hand in hand, usually I consider a manipulative girl to also be a liar and an honest girl not to be manipulative. Guess it's the environment out there that makes a girl almost somewhat of a contradiction in terms.

Kind of surprises me though that her and a load of other girls don't go fully pro date if there is more money in it. She said she also wanted kids a family etc but seemed more interested in clothes. She put that down to being a girl, I think she probably was interested in having kids etc but that got confused with her want for clothes. I guess a poor girl coming from a poor area I can understand that but she was buggering up her chances and probably not realising it.

Perhaps not lieing stops her being a pro dater idk, it's a strange old situation. I still think their must be something in their mentality against pro dating if not prostitution then something in that direction. It may be it is just the girl that sees it as prostitutuon than society at large Ukraine, etc.

I myself would not see it decent to go with any sort of prositute, I never have. The way some Ukraine women date with a favours for stuff mentality may be seen as a fine line, but a line drawn nonetheless. The girl I was with never directly talked of one being connected to the other, we indirectly know from here, etc that it tends to be. It's all a bit of a strange one as does a guy who buys his other half stuff on Valentine's Day also risks cutting that fine line or a guy that supports his wife, etc. So to my mind I am thinking that these girls who aren't straight up dating expenses and that's it girls but not pro date girls either draw a fine line between favours for stuff and pro date but internalise the idea that parading around with the stuff then have a WM show up, possibly several will categorise them in the pro date/prositute category, and they fear being associated with that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 22, 2019, 11:25:50 AM
could be an agency girl if she wanted to, so why doesn't she do that? Would beat the hell out of her shop work job.


Perhaps for the same reasons you aren't working full time to earn a salary above pauper levels.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 22, 2019, 11:54:28 AM

Perhaps for the same reasons you aren't working full time to earn a salary above pauper levels.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Which is?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 22, 2019, 11:32:35 PM
Which is?


Because you are a dumb lazy S.O.B.!!! :deadhorse:

What the K man wrote is about how people who want to get on in this world do --it is called action !
There are going to be very few FSUW  that want anything to do with the incompetent d...head you have repeatedly proven you are !

For those reading --particularly those who have not read him from the start -he started out pining for a virgin -- so a girl with a child is not on his agenda -- so please -- stop suggesting it. He is barely prepared( or capable) of supporting a girl-let alone a child etc .
And all that is after you get past his disgusting attitude in general--go read is disrespectful condescending comments directed at Ukraine and women generally  -- and realise that he is his problem-- a totally crap attitude from a lazy moron incapable of learning. poster after poster has tried to redirect him politely -with zero affect. :deadhorse: :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 01:35:46 AM

Sounds like something Andrew would say.

You might very well think so, I couldn't possibly comment, Maxx !
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 01:56:29 AM

Because you are a dumb lazy S.O.B.!!! :deadhorse:

What the K man wrote is about how people who want to get on in this world do --it is called action !
There are going to be very few FSUW  that want anything to do with the incompetent d...head you have repeatedly proven you are !

For those reading --particularly those who have not read him from the start -he started out pining for a virgin -- so a girl with a child is not on his agenda -- so please -- stop suggesting it. He is barely prepared( or capable) of supporting a girl-let alone a child etc .
And all that is after you get past his disgusting attitude in general--go read is disrespectful condescending comments directed at Ukraine and women generally  -- and realise that he is his problem-- a totally crap attitude from a lazy moron incapable of learning. poster after poster has tried to redirect him politely -with zero affect. :deadhorse: :cluebat:

Jay, I do action but only when it is worth it. I'm a single guy, there is no good reason for me to go beyond the call of duty and bust a guy. That is the problem with the feminist world, motivate the females into moving in on the man's terrain and you demotivate men, possibly in the end both, it doesn't work. Put it simply if a woman does a man's role then what is the man left to do in life? What does he have to offer the woman? Does the woman really want to work for ever more?

Besides, I don't think this is really the issue here, being an agency girl can hardly be harder than other jobs. Indeed, working long hours in a shop with customers pestering you I am sure is more taxing. I used to work in a supermarket when I was younger and wouldn't want to endure doing that job again. No, I am sure there is an explanation to:

A). Why aren't all UW doing agency/pro dater work if it is so lucrative and there is nothing to stop them?

And,

B). Why do these girls who want stuff are always so adamant for the guy to not meet their  family if there is no stigma attached to it?


The only possible answer (other than what I deduce) that have come up here in the past is something I think BillyB ventured. That good girl's will not do agency work and that some girls when offered/faced with the prospect couldn't do or just did it for one term/brief period, they found it so distressing and distasteful. If they found it like that I wonder how those around them thought of such.

My thoughts are that these questions will only be laid to rest most likely by a UM or UW, since it is very specific knowledge of why girls that want stuff not just go the who hog and do the apparently more lucrative agency work?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 02:07:29 AM
Oh, and the wanting a virgin thing is totally untrue, I have never said I wanted that on here. I think you are thinking of DK on that one Jay.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 03:18:29 AM
Why is anyone using an agency in the 21C dating world, period ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 03:27:35 AM
Oh, and the wanting a virgin thing is totally untrue, I have never said I wanted that on here. I think you are thinking of DK on that one Jay.
Perhaps, but you do want a woman you can control.
You do realise that psychological abuse is a form of domestic violence, I hope.
If you don’t I would advise you to read up on the law.

 Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 - Controlling or Coercive Behaviour in an Intimate or Family Relationship
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 03:44:24 AM
Perhaps, but you do want a woman you can control.
You do realise that psychological abuse is a form of domestic violence, I hope.
If you don’t I would advise you to read up on the law.

 Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 - Controlling or Coercive Behaviour in an Intimate or Family Relationship

I already realise that John, and I have never said I wanted a woman I can control. A few other forum members had ventured that. I do not fit into any of the provisions of the said Act if law.

I have my preferences but have never told a woman she must wear whatever. I have concerns over women that just want an immigration mule and the longevity of a relationship and not wishing to inadvertently have a relationship messed up with bad influences of western society.

Let's face it most of the guys here look to dating in the FSU because women there have not been exposed to the relationship destroying influences present in the west.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 03:58:46 AM
I already realise that John, and I have never said I wanted a woman I can control. A few other forum members had ventured that. I do not fit into any of the provisions of the said Act if law.

I have my preferences but have never told a woman she must wear whatever. I have concerns over women that just want an immigration mule and the longevity of a relationship and not wishing to inadvertently have a relationship messed up with bad influences of western society.

Let's face it most of the guys here look to dating in the FSU because women there have not been exposed to the relationship destroying influences present in the west.
Your posts are littered with your ‘preferences’ which I venture to say could be construed as examples of your desire to control a woman, driven by your desire to prevent your ‘import’ from jumping ship for a better model.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 04:00:02 AM
I already realise that John, and I have never said I wanted a woman I can control. A few other forum members had ventured that. I do not fit into any of the provisions of the said Act if law.

I'm 'sorry', but whilst I'm not in any way qualified - I see plenty of posts to suggest a constant ... you fear 'importing' a lass and losing her to a richer guy .....  So, tell us how you propose to ensure this doesn't happen... ?

One of your options was to ensure she had a child by you ..like THAT would keep her  ... it would only make her 'less attractive' to other guys like you - who have no chance, anyway ..




and here we see Trench's insecurities, again ..


I have my preferences but have never told a woman she must wear whatever. I have concerns over women that just want an immigration mule and the longevity of a relationship and not wishing to inadvertently have a relationship messed up with bad influences of western society.

You aren't a great advert for 'western guys' with your misogynist traits ..  You have told US how you'd like a lass to dress - so I expect you've just never been close enough ( connected ) to drop 'hints' - if you're even being truthful



Let's face it most of the guys here look to dating in the FSU because women there have not been exposed to the relationship destroying influences present in the west.

A Tellie-Tubbie , No-oh..... for you ..

Name these 'relationship destroying influences' ...  ?

FSU women coming to the UK ( example) feel they must dress down  - not stand out so much ...

As ever, you are showing you have never had a relationship WITH a FSU lady in the west  - and are posting CLUELESS

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 05:03:57 AM
I already realise that John, and I have never said I wanted a woman I can control. A few other forum members had ventured that. I do not fit into any of the provisions of the said Act if law.

I have my preferences but have never told a woman she must wear whatever. I have concerns over women that just want an immigration mule and the longevity of a relationship and not wishing to inadvertently have a relationship messed up with bad influences of western society.

Let's face it most of the guys here look to dating in the FSU because women there have not been exposed to the relationship destroying influences present in the west.
I think we can safely guess what you mean by ‘bad influences’.
That is, you wouldn’t want her to mix with other people, make friends, keep her dependent on you, no access to any education opportunities. These are just some examples of how you would want to control a woman you bring here, I’m sure there are many more.
Yes, it would definitely fit within the definition of mental abuse.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 05:13:08 AM
Your posts are littered with your ‘preferences’ which I venture to say could be construed as examples of your desire to control a woman, driven by your desire to prevent your ‘import’ from jumping ship for a better model.

If you had just 'imported' a girl and you were an everyday looking guy who wasn't really wealthy and was not quite of athletic build, wouldn't you be careful not to go to areas where there were a lot of real wealthy and/or model looking, athletic sorts around?

I would not stop a girl from going anywhere but it is stupid of me to introduce a girl to such guys. I think FSU women would quickly lose respect for a guy who did so.

Look at the vid Davo put up a few days ago of the singles in a nightclub. It would be the equivalent of that dude who is left outteying not to look awkward introducing a FSW who he got with to that guy who was cock of the week. We all know the likely odds on how that that one would go from that guy's treatment in the nightclub. There's such a thing as not making a rod for your own back.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 05:18:18 AM
If you had just 'imported' a girl and you were an everyday looking guy who wasn't really wealthy and was not quite of athletic build, wouldn't you be careful not to go to areas where there were a lot of real wealthy and/or model looking, athletic sorts around?

I would not stop a girl from going anywhere but it is stupid of me to introduce a girl to such guys. I think FSU women would quickly lose respect for a guy who did so.

Look at the vid Davo put up a few days ago of the singles in a nightclub. It would be the equivalent of that dude who is left outteying not to look awkward introducing a FSW who he got with to that guy who was cock of the week. We all know the likely odds on how that that one would go from that guy's treatment in the nightclub. There's such a thing as not making a rod for your own back.
It’s obvious you have no confidence in your ability to sustain and build a LTR.
You just think that your illusory economic advantage will ‘get’ you a woman in ‘impoverished’ Ukraine and that economic advantage, of course, as you well know is non existent in the UK as you are on the lower end of the money scale.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 05:19:56 AM
If you had just 'imported' a girl and you were an everyday looking guy who wasn't really wealthy and was not quite of athletic build, wouldn't you be careful not to go to areas where there were a lot of real wealthy and/or model looking, athletic sorts around?

So there you go .. you would be controlling  .. and you would be worried about who she meets when away from you ..

 :puke:


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 05:32:37 AM
So there you go .. you would be controlling  .. and you would be worried about who she meets when away from you ..

 :puke:

Not true, she would be free to go and see and do what she liked, I would just not be party to introducing her to other desirable men, some of whom would be bound to pounce. No control there, just my choice not to go along certain avenues, she could go along any avenues off her own back she chose to.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 05:41:05 AM
I would not try to influence her ( other than for reasons of HER personal safety) ..period

You cannot / will not 'get' that you ARE controlling - if she is in your company

By how you post, you offer 'excuses' for why UK gals are not interested in you and why you would not take any lady who came to you, to places where you deem there'd be too much competition  :ROFL:








Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 05:57:57 AM
I would not try to influence her ( other than for reasons of HER personal safety) ..period

You cannot / will not 'get' that you ARE controlling - if she is in your company

By how you post, you offer 'excuses' for why UK gals are not interested in you and why you would not take any lady who came to you, to places where you deem there'd be too much competition  :ROFL:

Mobers, what fool would take even a 5-7 FSW to a place where she has other options laid out before her. Just so some dude who thinks he's it to try it on with your girl and say 'thanks for that, I'll take it from here' after you've made all the expense and bother to get her in the country. I'm not doing that for some other dude's benefit if he wants it he can do the work himself. Not unfair I don't think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Nightwish on April 23, 2019, 06:10:08 AM
Not true, she would be free to go and see and do what she liked, I would just not be party to introducing her to other desirable men, some of whom would be bound to pounce. No control there, just my choice not to go along certain avenues, she could go along any avenues off her own back she chose to.

Can you spell "t r u s t" ? 

It is quite obvious you NEVER had a relationship before.. at least now we know who the movie "40 year old virgin" is based on 'true story'
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 06:27:15 AM
Mobers, what fool would take even a 5-7 FSW to a place where she has other options laid out before her. Just so some dude who thinks he's it to try it on with your girl and say 'thanks for that, I'll take it from here' after you've made all the expense and bother to get her in the country. I'm not doing that for some other dude's benefit if he wants it he can do the work himself. Not unfair I don't think.
You've got nothing to offer a normal woman. At the first reasonable opportunity she’ll be jumping ship and who would blame her?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 07:08:49 AM
Can you spell "t r u s t" ? 

It is quite obvious you NEVER had a relationship before.. at least now we know who the movie "40 year old virgin" is based on 'true story'

Trust isn't a quality slot of UW seem to have as Boethius states scamming etc is in their culture. Some people are more trustworthy than others, but their us also 'choice', now as said I would not withhold that from a FSW but I'm not going to thrust a load of other 'choices' in front of her. It's of her own back if she wishes to go looking for other choices, I would not seeing her as distrustful if she chose to do that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 07:10:44 AM
You've got nothing to offer a normal woman. At the first reasonable opportunity she’ll be jumping ship and who would blame her?

I have some stuff to offer a normal woman, other guys may well have more, I owe those other guys nor the girl any duty to bring them together, I'm not a matchmaking service.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 07:16:29 AM
I have some stuff to offer a normal woman, other guys may well have more, I owe those other guys nor the girl any duty to bring them together, I'm not a matchmaking service.
Like what?

Oh, yes. You own your own home......!!!!! As if that’s something so out of the ordinary?
Did you know most Ukrainians also own their homes?

Trench, you know on a scale of 1-10 for eligible bachelors you’re in the minus zone. That’s why you have this pervasive fear of losing your woman to the first guy that bats an eye at her.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 07:25:08 AM
Like what?

Oh, yes. You own your own home......!!!!! As if that’s something so out of the ordinary?
Did you know most Ukrainians also own their homes?

Trench, you know on a scale of 1-10 for eligible bachelors you’re in the minus zone. That’s why you have this pervasive fear of losing your woman to the first guy that bats an eye at her.

Most Ukrainians live in pokey little flats. They don't even have a formal living room in most cases, they class only bedrooms as rooms and not flats are 1 & 2 room flats. Most still get them free, some may have been done up, but for many it's not a great lifestyle. Outside the city centre in all cities in Ukraine these concrete monoliths can be seen in great number. Some housing exists but there is not much of it about and a little t of it is far outside the city or on the fringe. So even my small house would be a palace compared to what they have.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 23, 2019, 07:26:48 AM
Anyone else here laughing at the image of a jealous, possessive controlling Trenchcoat surviving 5 minutes with an FSUW ?  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 07:31:25 AM
Mobers, what fool would take even a 5-7 FSW to a place where she has other options laid out before her. Just so some dude who thinks he's it to try it on with your girl and say 'thanks for that, I'll take it from here' after you've made all the expense and bother to get her in the country. I'm not doing that for some other dude's benefit if he wants it he can do the work himself. Not unfair I don't think.

Nightwish  covered what I would have said in response, already ..


BOY, do you have issues..

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 07:39:36 AM
Most Ukrainians live in pokey little flats. They don't even have a formal living room in most cases, they class only bedrooms as rooms and not flats are 1 & 2 room flats. Most still get them free, some may have been done up, but for many it's not a great lifestyle. Outside the city centre in all cities in Ukraine these concrete monoliths can be seen in great number. Some housing exists but there is not much of it about and a little t of it is far outside the city or on the fringe. So even my small house would be a palace compared to what they have.
Assumptions, assumptions. Obviously haven’t been to many apartments in Ukraine.
In the meantime, Trench’s 2 up 2 down mid terraced is a ‘palace’.  :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 07:58:04 AM
Assumptions, assumptions. Obviously haven’t been to many apartments in Ukraine.
In the meantime, Trench’s 2 up 2 down mid terraced is a ‘palace’.  :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

I've rented 2 apartments, both were city centre apartments and catering for tourists in a well heeled part of the city. One had a separate living room the other didn't but the other had a large room. I've seen stuff online of more 'residential' living accommodation and it's on the pokey side for a family. The stuff I rented was spacious for a single guy or a couple. Like said though, most Ukrainians live in cramped accomodation.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 08:04:04 AM
I've rented 2 apartments, both were city centre apartments and catering for tourists in a well heeled part of the city. One had a separate living room the other didn't but the other had a large room. I've seen stuff online of more 'residential' living accommodation and it's on the pokey side for a family. The stuff I rented was spacious for a single guy or a couple. Like said though, most Ukrainians live in cramped accomodation.
You’ve rented a couple of apartments on your weeken jollies and suddenly you’re a font of knowledge on how Ukrainians live.
Do you realise how foolish you sound?
I’ve been going to Ukraine for over 10 years and am a bit more intimately acquainted with how  Ukrainians live, I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 08:06:54 AM
I've rented 2 apartments, both were city centre apartments and catering for tourists in a well heeled part of the city. One had a separate living room the other didn't but the other had a large room. I've seen stuff online of more 'residential' living accommodation and it's on the pokey side for a family. The stuff I rented was spacious for a single guy or a couple. Like said though, most Ukrainians live in cramped accomodation.

Trench,

Why do you post such guff and prove you don't know ?

Ex-wifey lived in a a FSU  apartment with a kitchen diner, two separate bedrooms, a bathroom and a living room

Wifey to be lives in a modern apartment with balconies, a large bedroom, large open plan lounge diner kitchen and separate bathroom where one can swing a cat, take a bath / shower and do 'other biz' in a nice area of the city - within walking distance of the beach .. 

 I've stayed in 50 plus apartments / homes and rented 'em out for airbnb, etc.,      I - unlike you - know better... ( AGAIN )

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 23, 2019, 08:21:38 AM
You’ve rented a couple of apartments on your weeken jollies and suddenly you’re a font of knowledge on how Ukrainians live.
Do you realise how foolish you sound?
I’ve been going to Ukraine for over 10 years and am a bit more intimately acquainted with how  Ukrainians live, I think.

It does not matter to  the Trench how many times  a different reality is pointed out to him. I am repeating myself here --I guarantee that my Ukrainian ex apartment is way superior to the TC home --in every way internally. She and daughter live there in 5 star western quality fit out.My current girlfriends apartment is probably bigger that the TC house he keeps harping on.
I have been in a lot of apartments -- & houses across Ukraine --plus rented apartments in at least 12 cities  so have seen a lot first hand -- and the tenor of TC comment is just wrongheaded ( again)

I have a question for you TC -- what size is your TV & how old is it ?  ( I am tipping a B & W 12" he inherited !!!_) :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 08:26:06 AM
why do we take such joy at other's pain....????

Trench, put aside your insecurities, they'll get in your way....
focus on success and you'll succeed
focus on failure and you'll fail

if I were you, I'd try and figure out why the engine won't start
you put petrol in the tank and you turned the ignition switch
but nothing...

seek out a "mechanic" i.e. a friendly female friend or relative and have them diagnose your problem(s)
is it your appearance or behavior?
it's gotta be one of those or maybe both
and this is compounded by the root of all evil (lack of money)

from there, work on overcoming whatever the mechanic has diagnosed
I can see that there are several "types" of women in Ukraine you could be successful with

1. single mother - younger
2. older single woman - 35+ (especially one with a ticking clock inside)

you really need to find someone that could make a smooth transition into the UK workforce
because you'd never be able to adequately support a family on your income alone
so look for someone used to hard work, who doesn't harbor a fantasy of becoming a star of "Rich Housewives of the Midlands"
hmmm think, where does one find a lot of blue collar or low end white collar Ukrainian women...
change your narrative, don't be the sex tourist
be the guy doing something else, anything else
I promise you that whatever else it is you're doing in Ukraine, you will meet women... lots of them
and if you're not a sex tourist
you don't have sex tourist expenses

slovo t' mamaichka


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 08:29:21 AM
It does not matter to  the Trench how many times  a different reality is pointed out to him. I am repeating myself here --I guarantee that my Ukrainian ex apartment is way superior to the TC home --in every way internally. She and daughter live there in 5 star western quality fit out.My current girlfriends apartment is probably bigger that the TC house he keeps harping on.
I have been in a lot of apartments -- & houses across Ukraine --plus rented apartments in at least 12 cities  so have seen a lot first hand -- and the tenor of TC comment is just wrongheaded ( again)

I have a question for you TC -- what size is your TV & how old is it ?  ( I am tipping a B & W 12" he inherited !!!_) :deadhorse:

Jay you probably just date girls on the neauvoux rich, I'm talking about the experience most Ukrainians and Russians have here. Moby tells us about his other half's penthouse with a balcony overlooking the beach in well heeled Sochi and think all FSW live like that, lol.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 23, 2019, 08:37:32 AM

I can see that there are several "types" of women in Ukraine you could be successful with

1. single mother - younger

2. older single woman - 35+ (especially one with a ticking clock inside)

you really need to find someone that could make a smooth transition into the workforce
because you'd never be able to adequately support a family on your income alone
so look for someone used to hard work, who doesn't harbor a fantasy of becoming a star of "Rich Housewives of the Midlands"

\

You need to read what has has actually said --ie  he does not/will not support another man's child.
So that rules out  a point you persist in harping on.Additionally -- he only wants a girl who has been with one man (if not a virgin) !

Then --   you suggest he recruits a "hard worker"   !!  What a joke --here is a guy to lazy to get off his arse and perform himself --  and thinks your family is abnormal for being ambitious !
Really bad advice you are throwing out here -- one thing a FSUW is not looking for is another guy trying to filch off her!!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 23, 2019, 08:47:33 AM


Trench, put aside your insecurities, they'll get in your way....
focus on success and you'll succeed
focus on failure and you'll fail

if I were you, I'd try and figure out why the engine won't start
you put petrol in the tank and you turned the ignition switch
but nothing...

seek out a "mechanic" i.e. a friendly female friend or relative and have them diagnose your problem(s)
is it your appearance or behavior?
it's gotta be one of those or maybe both
and this is compounded by the root of all evil (lack of money)

from there, work on overcoming whatever the mechanic has diagnosed


Credit where credit is due -- advice to get help is spot on -- and I mean with his head !

Why hang it on him?   Pandering to him is not helping him --he needs a smack between the eyes and a kick up the backside  --  not a whole lot of "feel good" niceness.

Success  in business,sport and life comes from a critical self analysis  of your own performance  and being brutally honest with yourself internally in that assessment -- anything less is kidding yourself . :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 08:56:55 AM
why do we take such joy at other's pain....????

Trench, put aside your insecurities, they'll get in your way....
focus on success and you'll succeed
focus on failure and you'll fail

if I were you, I'd try and figure out why the engine won't start
you put petrol in the tank and you turned the ignition switch
but nothing...

seek out a "mechanic" i.e. a friendly female friend or relative and have them diagnose your problem(s)
is it your appearance or behavior?
it's gotta be one of those or maybe both
and this is compounded by the root of all evil (lack of money)

from there, work on overcoming whatever the mechanic has diagnosed
I can see that there are several "types" of women in Ukraine you could be successful with

1. single mother - younger
2. older single woman - 35+ (especially one with a ticking clock inside)

you really need to find someone that could make a smooth transition into the UK workforce
because you'd never be able to adequately support a family on your income alone
so look for someone used to hard work, who doesn't harbor a fantasy of becoming a star of "Rich Housewives of the Midlands"
hmmm think, where does one find a lot of blue collar or low end white collar Ukrainian women...
change your narrative, don't be the sex tourist
be the guy doing something else, anything else
I promise you that whatever else it is you're doing in Ukraine, you will meet women... lots of them
and if you're not a sex tourist
you don't have sex tourist expenses

slovo t' mamaichka
He’s been told what his ‘problems’ are often enough and hasn’t listened to a word of advice.
What makes you think he’s going to listen to anyone else?
No, he’s going to carry on peddling his fantasy of being rich in a poor country and taking advantage of some poor Ukrainian woman just begging to be rescued from her horrendous life and taking her to his Palace in the arse end of Hastings or Maidstone or wherever it is he lives.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 08:58:05 AM
"he does not/will not support another man's child."

then don't!
adopt him/her and then it's your child
then if the child ends up disappointing you, you can just shrug your shoulders and sigh

JayH, I try and have a better "bedside" manner than the one you propose
Trench gets enuff abuse from other Anglos
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 23, 2019, 09:41:43 AM
A). Why aren't all UW doing agency/pro dater work if it is so lucrative and there is nothing to stop them?

1.  Even if a woman wanted to do this (and most don't), she would have to be in a big city.  There is no "market' in Vinnitsya, or Chernivtsi, or Ternopil, or Kherson.
2.  It is a market controlled by criminals.  So, any interloper is going to be shaken down for most of her profit, or have something worse happen to her.  Kyiv, for example, is divided into sectors, controlled by different gangs.

These are just the top 2, off the top of my head.  You again are attempting to apply your culture's
 ideas to a culture that is completely foreign and unknown to you.

Quote
B). Why do these girls who want stuff are always so adamant for the guy to not meet their  family if there is no stigma attached to it?

Because you are nobody to her.  They don't care about you. They are looking at you as a dollar bill.

As more than one UM has told me, "Normal women are at home with their families, or shopping, going to work, or cooking for their families.  They aren't sitting in bars or meeting foreign men in apartments/hotel rooms."

Trust isn't a quality slot of UW seem to have as Boethius states scamming etc is in their culture.

That's not what I posted.  What I posted was, most Ukrainians do not believe it is scandalous to take advantage of foreigners.  Frankly, having witnessed the behaviour of many a foreign man in Kyiv, I don't find it scandalous either.

Finally, most Ukrainians do not live in hovels.  Most Kyianans live in apartments comparable in sizes to those in big cities in Europe.  If you happen to visit some of the villages near Kyiv, you will find the houses there very often are quite large - between 100 and 200 square meters.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 10:01:54 AM
Moby tells us about his other half's penthouse with a balcony overlooking the beach in well heeled Sochi and think all FSW live like that, lol.


Is there anything we can learn from Trench - other than his inattentiveness ?

YOU suggested YOU knew how all UA folk lived after seeing two rented apartments

Are you always so sharp on a date ?


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 10:26:48 AM
why y'all have to bully Trench?
just like in every country there's a range of housing
sometimes he speaks in hyperbole not meant to be the literal truth
but a generalization

plenty of "tiny" apartments in Ukraine
I called them "drushban doms"

here's a pic so you know what "average" looks like depending on the zip code
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 10:30:49 AM
why y'all have to bully [ msmoby - Ha! ] Trench?

You answer your own Q, below


just like in every country there's a range of housing

That's why we chastise, Trench .. he posts as if he knows, generalises and misleads ... then offers 'advice' on dating or in country services / life when he is CLUELESS





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 23, 2019, 10:44:31 AM
just like in every country there's a range of housing


That's the point.  There is a range of housing.  So, his statement was inaccurate.

Quote
plenty of "tiny" apartments in Ukraine
I called them "drushban doms"

here's a pic so you know what "average" looks like depending on the zip code


Those are khrushchovkas, and they are slowly disappearing from Ukraine's big cities, as their construction is sort of like lego.  I lived in one, and personally, liked it.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 11:00:42 AM
ahhh, ok, but I'm watching you guys, always watching...
IMHO, there's more to Trench's story then he tells here, just like there is with all of us

Compassion definition is - sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it.
all you guys want to do is smack him for what I consider to be your own satisfaction
so I question your motivation
Trench is the most forthright poster here by FAR and is the least prone to anger despite overwhelming provocation
these are noble qualities, and empires have been built on foundations must shallower than this

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 23, 2019, 11:26:33 AM
The issue I have with Trench is his perspective that a UW is living in poverty and, therefore, he can "swoop in" to find a woman he will be able to control because he has $1 more.  It's not a winning formula for any relationship.  At some level, even he knows this, which is why he is so terrified of "importing" a bride and having her dump him for someone perceived to be more desirable.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 11:49:11 AM
Trench has a lack of confidence in himself, I would imagine that comes from repeated social rejection, and fear of that rejection
this gives rise to his anxiety, surely you all can understand this?
because of this background Trench hasn’t learned a lot the things he should’ve learned by now
so he is misguided by his ignorance

yes, a man with a broken leg will walk oddly...
but should the rest of us mock him?
if so, then what is it that is broken within us?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Grumpy on April 23, 2019, 11:51:34 AM
Perhaps Trench is looking in the wrong countries. He might be more successful if he tried looking for a woman from Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Palestine, or Libya. Many of the women are thin, lack British values, and would appreciate a home without bullet holes and/or shell damage. Many are also looking to relocate.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 11:54:19 AM

you want to "draw your pistol" on someone, I'm your "huckleberry" not Trench

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 23, 2019, 11:54:29 AM

Trench has a lack of confidence in himself, I would imagine that comes from repeated social rejection, and fear of that rejection
this gives rise to his anxiety, surely you all can understand this?
because of this background Trench hasn’t learned a lot the things he should’ve learned by now
so he is misguided by his ignorance

yes, a man with a broken leg will walk oddly...
but should the rest of us mock him?
if so, then what is it that is broken within us?


I'm not mocking him. 

He should go get help for the lack of confidence.  He is creating the dragons that eventually will devour him.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 12:12:37 PM
it all begins with self awareness...
self knowledge is the key that opens many doors...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 12:19:29 PM
Trench has a lack of confidence in himself, I would imagine that comes from repeated social rejection, and fear of that rejection
this gives rise to his anxiety, surely you all can understand this?
because of this background Trench hasn’t learned a lot the things he should’ve learned by now
so he is misguided by his ignorance

yes, a man with a broken leg will walk oddly...
but should the rest of us mock him?
if so, then what is it that is broken within us?

You'd have a point...


BUT

Our Trench posts questions then decides he 'knows better' and posts bollox

I wish he didn't lack confidence behind a keyboard ;)


He just doesn't think or learn



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 12:24:44 PM
Trench has a lack of confidence in himself, I would imagine that comes from repeated social rejection, and fear of that rejection
this gives rise to his anxiety, surely you all can understand this?
because of this background Trench hasn’t learned a lot the things he should’ve learned by now
so he is misguided by his ignorance

yes, a man with a broken leg will walk oddly...
but should the rest of us mock him?
if so, then what is it that is broken within us?
You’re barking up the wrong tree.
Trench is his own worst enemy.

People take umbrage at his characterisation of UW/U society and misogynistic attitudes.
He needs beating with a big stick and challenged on his views.
There is little doubt, IMO, that any woman who is unfortunate enough to be fooled into forming a relationship/marriage with him is a potential victim of abuse.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 12:36:42 PM
Never Mind the Bollocks

it’s easy for a rich man like you msmob, rich in so many different ways
to disparage “the table manners” of a poor man
but that’s essentially what you’re doing

“Trench is his own worst enemy.”

News Flash!
Just in from BBC!
WE ARE ALL OUR OWN WORST ENEMY!!!!
but first this message from Sainsbury's (I know the BBC doesn't have advertisements, it's a joke!!)

   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 23, 2019, 01:28:16 PM
why do we take such joy at other's pain....????

Trench, put aside your insecurities, they'll get in your way....
focus on success and you'll succeed
focus on failure and you'll fail

if I were you, I'd try and figure out why the engine won't start
you put petrol in the tank and you turned the ignition switch
but nothing...

seek out a "mechanic" i.e. a friendly female friend or relative and have them diagnose your problem(s)
is it your appearance or behavior?
it's gotta be one of those or maybe both
and this is compounded by the root of all evil (lack of money)

from there, work on overcoming whatever the mechanic has diagnosed
I can see that there are several "types" of women in Ukraine you could be successful with

1. single mother - younger
2. older single woman - 35+ (especially one with a ticking clock inside)

you really need to find someone that could make a smooth transition into the UK workforce
because you'd never be able to adequately support a family on your income alone
so look for someone used to hard work, who doesn't harbor a fantasy of becoming a star of "Rich Housewives of the Midlands"
hmmm think, where does one find a lot of blue collar or low end white collar Ukrainian women...
change your narrative, don't be the sex tourist
be the guy doing something else, anything else
I promise you that whatever else it is you're doing in Ukraine, you will meet women... lots of them
and if you're not a sex tourist
you don't have sex tourist expenses

slovo t' mamaichka

Thanks Krim, well it won't be long now and I'll be in Kiev in May so hopefully can make progress there in some form.

I think the option 2, women around there mid thirties may be best. I'll keep an open mind while out there as I think I could go to late twenties/early thirties before it gets to a payoff of younger girls who I tend to find wanting a very wealthy guy as a payoff for getting with a much older guy. I'll try a few different parks, etc around Kiev and see if any girls take interest. I've been doing gym a bit so hopefully won't look too bad.

Sometimes it's just straying across the right girl then the rest is just theoretical.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 01:50:03 PM
Thanks Krim, well it won't be long now and I'll be in Kiev in May so hopefully can make progress there in some form.

I think the option 2, women around there mid thirties may be best. I'll keep an open mind while out there as I think I could go to late twenties/early thirties before it gets to a payoff of younger girls who I tend to find wanting a very wealthy guy as a payoff for getting with a much older guy. I'll try a few different parks, etc around Kiev and see if any girls take interest. I've been doing gym a bit so hopefully won't look too bad.

Sometimes it's just straying across the right girl then the rest is just theoretical.
More shyte from Trench.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 01:51:38 PM
at least he's TRYING...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 02:03:16 PM
at least he's TRYING...
Oh please. He’s peddling the same old ‘theories’  and fantasies of his.

Let’s see how perving at and verbally accosting random strangers in parks across Kyiv goes for him.
I can see him ‘getting’ with the Полиция very quickly........
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
ha.. militsa don’t care..
Trench has done no harm to you or anyone else on this board
yet almost every post of yours is an attack on Trench
what does that say about you
other than that you’re the cowardly type
who likes to pick on victims who don’t fight back
underneath every bully I ever met was an even bigger coward
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 07:29:49 PM
ha.. militsa don’t care..
Trench has done no harm to you or anyone else on this board
yet almost every post of yours is an attack on Trench
what does that say about you
other than that you’re the cowardly type
who likes to pick on victims who don’t fight back
underneath every bully I ever met was an even bigger coward
It’s no surprise to see you, the wannabe Casanova, rushing to the rescue.
Trench can speak for himself. I’m sure he could report any post to a moderator if he felt the need to do so and certainly doesn’t need you grandstanding on his behalf.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 08:20:45 PM
how dare you besmirch my good name by calling me “Casanova”, that Venetian amateur of little talent...
SLAP! I demand satisfaction!

I slap your ruddy, bloated face, not for Trench’s satisfaction...merde non!!!
but for my own
now I must take my hanky and wipe whatever excretions were oozing from the pores of your pimpled jowls... you wiper of other people’s bottoms...
I sneer in your general direction
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on April 23, 2019, 08:34:05 PM
Trench can speak for himself. I’m sure he could report any post to a moderator if he felt the need to do so and certainly doesn’t need you grandstanding on his behalf.

Trench does deserve much of the criticism he receives.  However, IMO some of it is too personal, if not borderline bullying.   

Trench through it all repeatedly turns his cheek.  This is an admirable quality.   Krimster, true to his political nature, stands up for the little people striving for a fair opportunity to improve their lot in life.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on April 23, 2019, 08:35:36 PM
how dare you besmirch my good name by calling me “Casanova”, that Venetian amateur of little talent...
SLAP! I demand satisfaction!

I slap your ruddy, bloated face, not for Trench’s satisfaction...merde non!!!
but for my own
now I must take my hanky and wipe whatever excretions were oozing from the pores of your pimpled jowls... you wiper of other people’s bottoms...
I sneer in your general direction

You forgot to curse him with a pox of genital gangrene. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 23, 2019, 08:51:18 PM
I can curse in Russian "mat"
that's some really nasty stuff
hopefully this won't escalate THAT far...
but if it does, I have never once backed down from a fight...
so whoever "comes at me", you best not miss
because I never have
rest assured that after the inevitable, one of my associates will dictate letters of condolences to your family (a small comfort in the unlikely event any of them show signs of concern over your loss)
and another will see that you get a proper Christian burial in a consecrated county landfill





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 09:05:44 PM
Trench does deserve much of the criticism he receives.  However, IMO some of it is too personal, if not borderline bullying.   

Trench through it all repeatedly turns his cheek.  This is an admirable quality.   Krimster, true to his political nature, stands up for the little people striving for a fair opportunity to improve their lot in life.   
Like I said, Trench can speak up for himself. If he feels he is being bullied he has the RTM option.
The other side of the coin is that his opinions need to be called out for what they are. That’s not bullying. It’s merely stating the obvious and of course it gets somewhat personal. After all, these are perspectives and opinions of deep personal import.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 23, 2019, 09:08:04 PM
I can curse in Russian "mat"
that's some really nasty stuff
hopefully this won't escalate THAT far...
but if it does, I have never once backed down from a fight...
so whoever "comes at me", you best not miss
because I never have
rest assured that after the inevitable, one of my associates will dictate letters of condolences to your family (a small comfort in the unlikely event any of them show signs of concern over your loss)
and another will see that you get a proper Christian burial in a consecrated county landfill
You’re just a two bit nonce.
Push comes to shove the only sight of you will be your arse wobbling in the distance as you make yourself scarce as quick as you can.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 09:31:57 PM
Trench does deserve much of the criticism he receives.  However, IMO some of it is too personal, if not borderline bullying.   

Trench through it all repeatedly turns his cheek.  This is an admirable quality.   Krimster, true to his political nature, stands up for the little people striving for a fair opportunity to improve their lot in life.   


Gator,

You are just wrong.

Trench, when 'advising' a newbie (then countered with facts -which demonstrate cluelessness ) turns quite revengeful and nasty...((

He then claims any sick 'riposte' was a 'joke'...

I have seen him defended by other members until he manages to alienate them, too


Trench, is a danger to himself, any lady he might date and his 'advice' / opinion of ladies is normally risible..

Until he has a character upgrade, he will keep failing and blame the lasses.






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 23, 2019, 11:33:04 PM
Trench does deserve much of the criticism he receives.  However, IMO some of it is too personal, if not borderline bullying.   

Trench through it all repeatedly turns his cheek.  This is an admirable quality.   Krimster, true to his political nature, stands up for the little people striving for a fair opportunity to improve their lot in life.   


Gator,

You are just wrong.

Trench, when 'advising' a newbie (then countered with facts -which demonstrate cluelessness ) turns quite revengeful and nasty...((

He then claims any sick 'riposte' was a 'joke'...

I have seen him defended by other members until he manages to alienate them, too


Trench, is a danger to himself, any lady he might date and his 'advice' / opinion of ladies is normally risible..

Until he has a character upgrade, he will keep failing and blame the lasses.




Gator & others -- you will see that John Gaunt & I  have nothing nice to say or think of Moby -- but along with many many others here we all are in agreement on Trenchcoat.

As for K taking on the defence of the little man-- that is about as arse up as your support of DJT -- it is Trench that seeks to exploit and  bully a "poor as a church mouse" fsu  girl as he "rescues" her from the hovel she is living in.
His attitude is obnoxious -- and has been from day one. He is - as i stated long ago-- a social misfit and quite unfit to be inflicting himself on anyone --let alone someone who may not realise soon enough what he is.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 23, 2019, 11:44:15 PM

Gator & others -- you will see that John Gaunt & I  have nothing nice to say or think of Moby -- but along with many many others here we all are in agreement on Trenchcoat.

..and that is some sort of 'validation' ?

You two are worse than Trench when busted ... 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2019, 12:34:35 AM
"a social misfit and quite unfit to be inflicting himself on anyone --let alone someone who may not realise soon enough what he is."

I can only assume that you were gazing forlornly at the image in the mirror, when you slurred these words and typed them here
despite this I think this self-description of yours is fairly accurate, bravo

Trench has done harm to no one
so leave him alone



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2019, 01:09:23 AM
That's not so bad idea. Because the girl makes her this money. And because of that they want to have the best bang for the same buck, you know them, they can spend hours, days, weeks, months (i saw my ex wife doing this) to chase the branded throuser they want and they come along the shop every week to watch the tag and they ask the saleswoman to know when the discount will be available, want o know about the stock and.... bla bla bla.
Of course if you buy it yourself that's a different story she don't own this money so she basically don't care except if of course you are established as a family, therefore if it's money family so the story is  different.


I think that you have to give a monthly  allowance to the lady when you are commited, as wages in FSU are generally very low. In this case when you have to spend extra money (over her money) you have to keep the control minimum 90% of time. I was regulary showing to my ex wife the amount of taxes needed to be paid, different bills. Also when she asks something you don't want, say no or no i don't like.

Or even if you like it say no to keep off the spending ;D

The Kherson girl I was with had this outlook of do you like something she puts on and if so I was the one buying. So she seemed to think she had my agreement to pay the cost. It had been ventured at one point the allowance thing you mention. Apparently her friend was getting a regular amount from her man. No way I was doing that of giving a girl money like he was while separate from the girl in the UK. For me such a situation is only for when living together permanently, otherwise it's a case of having MUG stamped on one's forehead. Anyway, she too seemed devoid of any idea of taxes and expenses. That and earning so little may impact why some girls may become somewhat difficult as they have little clue about stuff.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 24, 2019, 01:19:27 AM
In FSU to get their results women have to be more upfront. In the west the mindset is quite the same minus statiscally the women who are economically well off (and even among this group you have some wolves). At the end the difference is that western women don't have to be dog eat dog, the courts do it on their behalf. And guess what the court is almost exclusively composed of women. What a coïncidence.

True, I think those on low pay which is a lot of UW don't get much stuff at all so the only way is for them to be transactional. Some girls wait until they are married, etc, other girls constantly stuff it up by breaking the rules and asking a guy too early in a relationship as they either have been staved of stuff for a long time and/or are constantly attracted to stuff. I think anyone when staved of their wants for a long time can build up a release when they finally have a means before them to acquire all that they want. Still a bad idea to not manage it very directly and firmly from the outset I think having had that experience, just doing it to be nice doesn't do the relationship any good in my opinion.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 24, 2019, 02:50:02 AM
I think your girl is the exception here Steve. There aren't that many women in Ukraine that earn more then men (I mean the decent ones).

They just keep on coming from Trench ..

I've dated a UA lass in finance, a journalist and a woman running catering biz' that earnt better than most guys

YOU are the exception  - as usual - with your VERY limited experience of fails and yet here you are BSing as if you know..

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on April 24, 2019, 06:21:12 AM

Gator,

You are just wrong.

Trench, when 'advising' a newbie (then countered with facts -which demonstrate cluelessness ) turns quite revengeful and nasty...((


Missed that in one of my prolonged hiatuses (hiati?) from RWD.  If so, I am sure the veterans did not let it pass.


Quote
Trench, is a danger to himself, any lady he might date.....

Danger?  Or a waste of his time and his limited pence? 

The effort Trench devotes to discussing the venture suggests Trench is serious about finding a FSUW wife, albeit an effort made difficult by his limitations.  Being a libertarian in my political heart, I believe in FREE WILL.  Trench has the right to act at his  own discretion in pursuit of his dream. 

He needs help, and of course to be corrected when he is writes something wrong as otherwise it could misguide the lurking newbie.     


Quote
Until he has a character upgrade, he will keep failing and blame the lasses.

His choice.  Who is to say he will never succeed!?  Surely given all the wise advice from RWD, he is learning something and thereby progressing.   

Sometimes fantasies come true.  Look at me. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 24, 2019, 07:32:02 AM
..and that is some sort of 'validation' ?

You two are worse than Trench when busted ...
Oh, the irony here. You could give Trench lessons in posting unadulterated crap.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Faux Pas on April 24, 2019, 07:55:01 AM

Gator & others -- you will see that John Gaunt & I  have nothing nice to say or think of Moby -- but along with many many others here we all are in agreement on Trenchcoat.

As for K taking on the defence of the little man-- that is about as arse up as your support of DJT -- it is Trench that seeks to exploit and  bully a "poor as a church mouse" fsu  girl as he "rescues" her from the hovel she is living in.
His attitude is obnoxious -- and has been from day one. He is - as i stated long ago-- a social misfit and quite unfit to be inflicting himself on anyone --let alone someone who may not realise soon enough what he is.

I've watched this thread from the 1st page and haven't commented because I have neither the time or inclination to care. There have been literally 1000's of TC's that have graced this forum with the same mindset. I recall you were one years ago, so was I. Some learn, some don't. All you or any other poster's can do is try to provide those folks with good information and let them absorb it or not. Some folks are just destined to have their collective asses handed to them. You're not the savior of FSUW. They can save themselves from Trench as I'm sure many already have.

Dispensing advice with a sledgehammer and degradation will have little to no results. Trench does have his head stuck in his butt and he is the only one to remove it. If he is of a mind to pull it off, he will. With or without your sage advice and his paltry earnings. If he's hell bent and dating and marrying an FSW he will. Maybe offer him advice on finding the right one "for him" rather than constantly pummeling his ass. There is a butt for every bucket and you catch more flies with honey
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2019, 08:20:14 AM
“Push comes to shove the only sight of you will be your arse wobbling in the distance as you make yourself scarce as quick as you can. “

that’s supposed to be intimidating? maybe so if I was 8 or 9 yr old...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 24, 2019, 08:36:10 AM
I've watched this thread from the 1st page and haven't commented because I have neither the time or inclination to care. There have been literally 1000's of TC's that have graced this forum with the same mindset. I recall you were one years ago, so was I. Some learn, some don't. All you or any other poster's can do is try to provide those folks with good information and let them absorb it or not. Some folks are just destined to have their collective asses handed to them. You're not the savior of FSUW. They can save themselves from Trench as I'm sure many already have.

Dispensing advice with a sledgehammer and degradation will have little to no results. Trench does have his head stuck in his butt and he is the only one to remove it. If he is of a mind to pull it off, he will. With or without your sage advice and his paltry earnings. If he's hell bent and dating and marrying an FSW he will. Maybe offer him advice on finding the right one "for him" rather than constantly pummeling his ass. There is a butt for every bucket and you catch more flies with honey

I highlighted  a point I want to make --your recollection is flawed  --  to say something I kept basically saying -- I was years and years into my situation before I ever went near any forum in any way related . I was told by some people (I still rate as first class morons) -that I had never been in Ukraine ( one in particular who had definitely never been there and others not in many years).
The actual fact is I only found the forums when I was researching a US visa situation for a Ukrainian girl who was a friend of my girl -- and she was being given a lot of BS by a US guy --that was info I was seeking and I started reading from there. It was interesting to read the many stories and of others experiences.
Fact is -- I knew far more back then about the pitfalls than most of the luminaries handing out "advice" and i was very current .All a fwiw

As for Trench--he has been the recipient of a lot of decent advice --yet --he has learnt near enough nothing  and clings to his own absurd -- often obnoxious offensive ideas born from idiotic ideas of Roosh and the DK's of this world and more recently run after Krim's salacious aspirations of 25 years  ago like a dog in heat --just pathetic.

He is given good info --then regurgitates in an arse about way of looking at it .Throw in his repetition across a hundred threads that get diverted as a result -- and yeah - it is a pia !

You think the advice is harsh? Many posters have shown incredible patience --only to eventually come to the same conclusion. Being nice to him is not helping him -- his own stupid arrogance is his problem --basically he is just plain dumb-incapable of understanding .

I suggested long ago--that he should only be able to post in his own thread -- and stop polluting every thread across the board .
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 24, 2019, 08:51:22 AM
“salacious”?

who are you to tell another what is an “ undue or inappropriate interest in sexual matters.”
unless you’re a PRUDE, “a person who is easily shocked by matters relating to sex or nudity.

I’m NOT a prude, I actually like sex and nekkid wimmin, if you view it disfavorably
that’s your issue



"aspirations?"  

you mean achievements , all documented, unlike ANYTHING scribbled here by you
maybe the doubters you mentioned were on to something....
I certainly think so, in fact I'm pretty certain of it

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on April 24, 2019, 08:56:55 AM
 :sad: :trainwreck: :wallbash: :cluebat: :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Faux Pas on April 24, 2019, 09:04:45 AM
I highlighted  a point I want to make --your recollection is flawed  --  to say something I kept basically saying -- I was years and years into my situation before I ever went near any forum in any way related . I was told by some people (I still rate as first class morons) -that I had never been in Ukraine ( one in particular who had definitely never been there and others not in many years).
The actual fact is I only found the forums when I was researching a US visa situation for a Ukrainian girl who was a friend of my girl -- and she was being given a lot of BS by a US guy --that was info I was seeking and I started reading from there. It was interesting to read the many stories and of others experiences.
Fact is -- I knew far more back then about the pitfalls than most of the luminaries handing out "advice" and i was very current .All a fwiw

That's not the way I remember it but to each their own.


Quote
As for Trench--he has been the recipient of a lot of decent advice --yet --he has learnt near enough nothing  and clings to his own absurd -- often obnoxious offensive ideas born from idiotic ideas of Roosh and the DK's of this world and more recently run after Krim's salacious aspirations of 25 years  ago like a dog in heat --just pathetic.

He is given good info --then regurgitates in an arse about way of looking at it .Throw in his repetition across a hundred threads that get diverted as a result -- and yeah - it is a pia !

You think the advice is harsh? Many posters have shown incredible patience --only to eventually come to the same conclusion. Being nice to him is not helping him -- his own stupid arrogance is his problem --basically he is just plain dumb-incapable of understanding .

I suggested long ago--that he should only be able to post in his own thread -- and stop polluting every thread across the board .

Then back away. You've obviously helped him all you can. What good does it do to beat a dead horse?  :deadhorse: He has his own ideas no matter how sickening or stupid they may sound to you, they are his just as your's are yours. Spewing what a moron he is post after post accomplishes nothing. This thread would have died 90 pages ago if you lot didn't have such an appetite to dish out abuse
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 24, 2019, 10:55:20 AM
In FSU to get their results women have to be more upfront. In the west the mindset is quite the same minus statiscally the women who are economically well off (and even among this group you have some wolves). At the end the difference is that western women don't have to be dog eat dog, the courts do it on their behalf. And guess what the court is almost exclusively composed of women. What a coïncidence.

I disagree with this vehemently.  The vast majority of UW marry men who don't have large sums of money, and money is typically not the first consideration in marrying a man.  Just as in the West.

The courts in my country are still majority male dominated, although it's getting close to 50/50.  The federal courts are about 90% male.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 24, 2019, 11:42:41 AM
The above posts are both amusing and depressing, primarily for your views on buying UW for $100 or more.  Would you give a WW $1000 on a first date, ask her to go spend it, and come back for more when she is done?  What would you think of that woman, and what normal woman would accept that offer?  Why do you assume normal UW are any different?  You find what you seek, and then impose your degenerate and degrading views on Ukrainian society as a whole.  I'd say it's disgusting, but frankly, your actions/beliefs about Ukraine are just sad.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on April 24, 2019, 11:58:41 AM
They just keep on coming from Trench ..

I've dated a UA lass in finance, a journalist and a woman running catering biz' that earnt better than most guys

YOU are the exception  - as usual - with you VERY limited experience of fails and yet here you are BSing as if you know..

Exception or not, such cases are not average.    I assume a female retail clerk makes less than the average male in UA .   

BTW, my wife as a  19-yo gymnast, made 3x more than a graduate engineer.

Is there a glass ceiling in the FSU? I ask because I don't know.  Not one of my FSUW dates ever complained about being paid less because they were women not men. 

 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on April 24, 2019, 12:47:12 PM
The above posts are both amusing and depressing, primarily for your views on buying UW for $100 or more.  Would you give a WW $1000 on a first date, ask her to go spend it, and come back for more when she is done?  What would you think of that woman, and what normal woman would accept that offer?  Why do you assume normal UW are any different?  You find what you seek, and then impose your degenerate and degrading views on Ukrainian society as a whole.  I'd say it's disgusting, but frankly, your actions/beliefs about Ukraine are just sad.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
And some posters wonder why TC gets stick for his warped beliefs.  :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jamesukjames on April 24, 2019, 01:37:02 PM
Trench I know quite a few ukranian women that make more money than their husbands but none are single.  Vodka talks and most of the men married these women for their earning power.  Sadly romance seems a bit lacking in the Slavic world
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jamesukjames on April 24, 2019, 01:38:31 PM
A fee pages back prostitutes were mentioned but that's a little like fishing with dynamite.  Effective but predictable and boring.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 24, 2019, 01:52:39 PM
Trench I know quite a few ukranian women that make more money than their husbands but none are single.  Vodka talks and most of the men married these women for their earning power.  Sadly romance seems a bit lacking in the Slavic world

Here we go again ..

As you have been reminded... FSU guys are by no means 'doing us a favour' .. Many are good  husbands and Dads
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Jamesukjames on April 24, 2019, 03:16:01 PM
There are probably as many good dads and bad dads in the same ratio in the UK as Ukraine just the law tends to reign in the UK bad dads.  But the big difference is the women the bad lads let go in Ukraine are far hotter than they UK version.  Even your posting msmb of the late 30s woman she could pass for late 20s.  Personally I'm presently dating a very attractive woman who's husband left her for a woman 15 years her junior who could run for miss Ukraine.  These options are just not available in the UK.  Today I drove through Henley no attractive women to be seen dinipro they are everywhere.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2019, 01:18:07 PM
I have met ALL KINDS of people in Ukraine
but in general it’s a much more “dog eat dog” world than in the west
not a country for “naifs” which describes Trench pretty well, even me to when I was younger


I'm not certain it's more dog eat dog.  It's just that the consequences to those with such a mentality aren't as severe, because there is no rule of law.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
lack of consequences is definitely a factor...
also for the average person, honest work is of marginal value, so that gives rise to “opportunistic” thinking
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2019, 02:03:30 PM
But the reason for honest work being of marginal value is precisely because of the lack of a rule of law. 

If we had the same conditions in the West, we would be no different in our responses.  I sometimes see attempts at this among recent immigrants, who come from societies where they have a social status that insulates them from consequences, a social status they are too "fresh off the boat" to realize, means nothing here.

This post was composed without the aid of google.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2019, 03:02:50 PM
here, money can you insulate you from consequences, it "Trumps" all other considerations
justice is not blind, one hand is held out while the other is gently tipping the scales...
accountability is only for those who can't afford it...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 25, 2019, 03:08:01 PM
Hmm, Conrad Black, Paul Manafort, and Martin Shkreli may disagree with you.

I'm not suggesting Western systems are perfect.  They are not (Conrad Black wrote about this, based on his own experiences in prison).  However, a Kolomoisky would not exist with impunity if he acquired his fortune in most of the West - certainly, not in terms of his money laundering and killing of those who cross him.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on April 25, 2019, 04:18:05 PM
imagine the sentences imposed if those you mentioned had been poor...
beware of calling things opposites (Ukraine vrs West), when in  fact they differ only by degree...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on April 27, 2019, 11:16:31 PM
There are probably as many good dads and bad dads in the same ratio in the UK as Ukraine just the law tends to reign in the UK bad dads.  But the big difference is the women the bad lads let go in Ukraine are far hotter than they UK version.  Even your posting msmb of the late 30s woman she could pass for late 20s.  Personally I'm presently dating a very attractive woman who's husband left her for a woman 15 years her junior who could run for miss Ukraine.  These options are just not available in the UK.  Today I drove through Henley no attractive women to be seen dinipro they are everywhere.


If you are saying you prefer the exotic mix of FSU lasses then we agree ))
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 30, 2019, 03:36:16 PM

My point is that a good girl figures stuff out. She doesn't make excuses
she overcomes them. She can't translate something then she finds somebody
who can and braids their hair, bakes them a cake or watches their kids or
something in exchange. She doesn't complain, make excuses or ask for
money.

Could be where some girls transactional nature comes from. I get the impression Ukraine is quite transactional based. I think you are right Bill, I've found Ukrainian girls can be quite logical and resourceful so  a good one will find a way, even if it was a case of going back to snail mail the old fashioned way.

In one of the letters the girl from Kherson wrote to me she said she got the guy downstairs to help her out with some computer problem. She then in return cooked dinner for him and his son. Whether this actually happened who knows but I think it shows a transactional mindset in a country where being resourceful becomes a necessity. Not to say we don't do this in the west but I think chances are it's a lot more of a part of everyday life in Ukraine. For some girls thought they just take if further.

That of course though is a different type of girl than Marc had here who fell right into the scammer category.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SteveInBoston on April 30, 2019, 05:38:47 PM
In one of the letters the girl from Kherson wrote to me she said she got the guy downstairs to help her out with some computer problem. She then in return cooked dinner for him and his son. Whether this actually happened who knows but I think it shows a transactional mindset in a country where being resourceful becomes a necessity.

 :wallbash:

Dear god.

It's called being a good neighbor and a good human being.  A neighbor helps out, like with yardwork or helping you move heavy furniture, you show your appreciation by buying him a beer or pizza.  In this case, fix a computer issue and give a home cooked meal.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: siberia on April 30, 2019, 06:46:48 PM
In one of the letters the girl from Kherson wrote to me she said she got the guy downstairs to help her out with some computer problem. She then in return cooked dinner for him and his son. Whether this actually happened who knows but I think it shows a transactional mindset in a country where being resourceful becomes a necessity. Not to say we don't do this in the west but I think chances are it's a lot more of a part of everyday life in Ukraine. For some girls thought they just take if further.

That of course though is a different type of girl than Marc had here who fell right into the scammer category.


Oh my God, just when I think Trenchcoat can't get anymore clueless, he opens his mouth again.  This is called polite society.  If you had brought the computer to a business to fix, you would have paid them, but when someone you know fixes it, you give a symbolic return, such as a meal or a case of beer, or something you know they would like and appreciate.  Were you raised in a closet with no human contact?  I just really do not understand you sometimes.


I often feel as Krimster said previously, that at least you are trying but then when you don't even understand the most simple human/society rules, it makes me want to give up on you again.  If you do have a diagnosis of being on the spectrum, please let us know because that would change how we feel about your postings. It would make it so much easier to understand why this process is so difficult for you. Otherwise I am still going to think you were raised alone in a closet with your parent just handing you food once in a while.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 01, 2019, 12:46:15 AM

Oh my God, just when I think Trenchcoat can't get anymore clueless, he opens his mouth again.  This is called polite society.  If you had brought the computer to a business to fix, you would have paid them, but when someone you know fixes it, you give a symbolic return, such as a meal or a case of beer, or something you know they would like and appreciate.  Were you raised in a closet with no human contact?  I just really do not understand you sometimes.


I often feel as Krimster said previously, that at least you are trying but then when you don't even understand the most simple human/society rules, it makes me want to give up on you again.  If you do have a diagnosis of being on the spectrum, please let us know because that would change how we feel about your postings. It would make it so much easier to understand why this process is so difficult for you. Otherwise I am still going to think you were raised alone in a closet with your parent just handing you food once in a while.

Your profile info tells me 'you're looking', you're female and you're from the US?

Anyway as I said we do that in the west, but the point I was making was that I surmise it happens far more frequently in Ukraine due to the state of the economy. Here in the west many of us can afford to just take our problem to someone else who deals with such commercially, pay them a few bob and they deal with it. In Ukraine where most don't earn much at all it no doubt serves people better to help each other out on a transactional footing as a daily way of life. Both gain as it costs neither any substantial money and so it's seen as a mutually beneficial way to get things done.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on May 01, 2019, 01:56:03 AM
 :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:
 :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 01, 2019, 05:12:07 AM
:cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:
 :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

I know you like to think of UW the same as western women as you have one Jay and any talk of them in less flattering terms than in terms of high esteem you feel like it is derogatory. All I can say, it is what it is, there are good and not so good aspects to women in most societies. Some aspects are not necessarily good or bad just how you view them. My view is not alone, many comment on how Ukrainian women are different in certain ways, not alien but not the same as western women either.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SteveInBoston on May 01, 2019, 06:12:39 AM
In Ukraine where most don't earn much at all it no doubt serves people better to help each other out on a transactional footing as a daily way of life.

When T was low on fuel, she went to a petrol station and the filled up her car, and she gave them these bits of paper with someone's face on it and numbers.  It happened again when she went to get her nails done.  Then, one day when we went grocery shopping, she inserted a little plastic doohicky and pressed some numbers on this device thingy and they both said spasibo and she left with the groceries.  Transactions everywhere.

Oh, and then there was a different type of transaction - when we invited T's friends for dinner they brought us a couple bottles of wine for the food we cooked.  I thought it a bit strange when they partook of the wine with us instead of letting us have it all, but then we did eat some of the food, so fair's fair I guess.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Faux Pas on May 01, 2019, 06:29:54 AM
I know you like to think of UW the same as western women as you have one Jay and any talk of them in less flattering terms than in terms of high esteem you feel like it is derogatory. All I can say, it is what it is, there are good and not so good aspects to women in most societies. Some aspects are not necessarily good or bad just how you view them. My view is not alone, many comment on how Ukrainian women are different in certain ways, not alien but not the same as western women either.

The way you're thinking about them is derogatory. I sense you think about all women in a derogatory manner in one way or another no matter where they are from. This situation described here can simply just be being nice. Unfortunately you are not alone in your way of thinking. Misogynist are everywhere. That doesn't make you right. Women are women the world over. When you come to that realization you might be taking the first step in fixing yourself. The problem isn't with them Trench, it's with you. You have a long row to hoe brother
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on May 01, 2019, 10:22:23 AM
Could be where some girls transactional nature comes from. I get the impression Ukraine is quite transactional based.

Hmmmmm, In my opinion +90% of Ukrainian girls want love, romance, happiness,
a family and wouldn't exchange those things for money. There is a small group that
will and those women are to be avoided. You wouldn't go to a prostitute looking for
a good wife. She by her very occupation is transactional, she exchanges sex for
money.

If you find a girl who seems transactional, dump her and move on.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Grumpy on May 01, 2019, 10:28:16 AM
True, I think those on low pay which is a lot of UW don't get much stuff at all so the only way is for them to be transactional. Some girls wait until they are married, etc, other girls constantly stuff it up by breaking the rules and asking a guy too early in a relationship as they either have been staved of stuff for a long time and/or are constantly attracted to stuff. I think anyone when staved of their wants for a long time can build up a release when they finally have a means before them to acquire all that they want. Still a bad idea to not manage it very directly and firmly from the outset I think having had that experience, just doing it to be nice doesn't do the relationship any good in my opinion.

http://youtu.be/NWHedf01JEQ
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on May 01, 2019, 10:53:36 AM
I was not familiar with the term 'transactional,' at least with respect to how it might be commonly used.

Google provided two examples:

1) business related.

2) relating to exchange or interaction between people.

Using the more general definition . . . we are all transactional with almost everyone else . . . except maybe with parent - child relationships.  There we do stuff without any expectation of reciprocal response (mostly).

But even with spouses or significant others, I think that most would not continue forever where there were not satisfactory transactions.  i.e. quid pro quo.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 01, 2019, 11:09:57 AM
One of my fav pieces of RU music in the background ..

Borodin's Prince Igor : Polovtsian Dances

A more modern version :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk8PLzD3UK4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk8PLzD3UK4)


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on May 01, 2019, 11:15:02 AM
Yes, this idea that the man always pays for everything, even where the woman makes just as much or even more money than the man, is a most disgusting feature of Eastern European culture.

I understand that is has been passed down and accepted by many generations.
And, I understand that it even goes back to the root situation where the man went out to kill the food and bring it back for the woman to prepare.

However, this is a new era and such foolishness is long out of date.

And it is totally incongruent with most all other aspects of life that such women have adopted.

i.e.  Historically they dressed and acted in a certain manner.  They have given up all of that, yet insist that only one thing be continued.

I did, of course, pay for everything (except as noted below) during my dating with FSU women.
However, there were quite a few who offered to pay, and some who even arrived at apartment with substantial amounts of food they had just purchased at market, etc. and would not take repayment.

And I am married to an FSUW who insists that she work and contribute to family expenses . . . even as I would just as soon she not work.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2019, 11:17:04 AM
when I was single, I would allocate a budget for this...
you want to create a “reality distortion field” around yourself
so you only stay at either a Penthouse Suite in a high end Hotel or equivalent private apartment
you rent a driver for the day, and he’s on call 24/7
driver has “contacts” for every kind of “black market items” you can imagine....
so many perks
if you’re in a hotel, you tip the head doorman $100 and you introduce yourself and you remember his name and greet him in the future...

I put up job ads for an English speaking personal assistant in Shevchenko Univ library
was inundated with applications - pay was for $500 month + travel bonus
I interviewed a bunch of girls, narrowed it down to 3 who were making overtly sexual signs and then picked the one I fancied the most...
this is actually a pretty cheap way to get a young mistress, compared with buying her an apartment, etc.
as long as you pay her salary and take her places, she will give her body to you in exchange, and also because "she gets off on it" as well
and then whenever you want you can fire them and get a brand new one....
compare and contrast different ones...

there are NOW a ton of businesses you can do in Ukraine!!!
I just bought a buncha stuff off ebay that was shipped straight from Ukraine w/ no problem!
you hire personal assistants to do the actual work
all work combined with all play
and you guys aren't doing this because????
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on May 01, 2019, 11:21:01 AM
And some posters wonder why TC gets stick for his warped beliefs.

Well John, say what you may, but like it or not, TC is the living epitome of good ol' Churchill's definition of ''success'.

Must be an 'English' [thang... :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 01, 2019, 02:25:16 PM
Your profile info tells me 'you're looking', you're female and you're from the US?


Read her posts.  It's not as if there are 2,000 of them.

Quote
Anyway as I said we do that in the west, but the point I was making was that I surmise it happens far more frequently in Ukraine due to the state of the economy. Here in the west many of us can afford to just take our problem to someone else who deals with such commercially, pay them a few bob and they deal with it. In Ukraine where most don't earn much at all it no doubt serves people better to help each other out on a transactional footing as a daily way of life. Both gain as it costs neither any substantial money and so it's seen as a mutually beneficial way to get things done.


No, it doesn't. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 01, 2019, 03:07:20 PM
I was not familiar with the term 'transactional,' at least with respect to how it might be commonly used.

Google provided two examples:

1) business related.

2) relating to exchange or interaction between people.

Using the more general definition . . . we are all transactional with almost everyone else . . . except maybe with parent - child relationships.  There we do stuff without any expectation of reciprocal response (mostly).

But even with spouses or significant others, I think that most would not continue forever where there were not satisfactory transactions.  i.e. quid pro quo.


I reject this.  Most intimate relationships are built on emotion rather than transaction.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 01, 2019, 03:58:09 PM
Borodin's Prince Igor : Polovtsian Dances
A earlier re-work of Borodin's music was the 1953 Broadway musical Kismet (Arabic for "destiny"):
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d6/Kismetlogo.png)

The Polovtsian Dances became A Stranger in Paradise, sung by Vic Damone & Ann Blyth in Vincente Minnelli's 1955 film version:

http://youtu.be/P0c3od7KynE
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 01, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
"Most intimate relationships are built on emotion rather than transaction.

like fear and humiliation..

it's why I like Russians to FEAR me
it's how you earn their obedience...
through fear...

once you get a Russian to obey you, the rest is trivial...
they will work hard to please you the best way they can, no matter what...
obedience = submission...






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 02, 2019, 05:20:37 AM
Thank you, Sandro ..

This was my first memory of the song ...  I had thought it was written for the musical :(
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 02, 2019, 07:09:40 AM
Hmmmmm, In my opinion +90% of Ukrainian girls want love, romance, happiness,
a family and wouldn't exchange those things for money. There is a small group that
will and those women are to be avoided. You wouldn't go to a prostitute looking for
a good wife.
She by her very occupation is transactional, she exchanges sex for
money.

If you find a girl who seems transactional, dump her and move on.

I wouldn't?!!! Lol.

I think you have a good point here. If a girl is transactional then it's not generally a good sign and best to move on. Fair enough to state to her the situation if into her but from what I've seen that's unlikely to go far in many cases.

If the guy is happy with transactional featuring in a relationship then that's fair enough. I think where there is a bit of an age gap transactional relations seem to crop up more. Many of the girls around early to mid twenties that are looking at older guys I think want a wealthy guy in return in the main. In general if messing around with a transactional girl it seems not agreeing to anything straight up and talking her down to lower cost stuff is the way to handle them if wishing to handle them at all.

It's great you think 90 percent of women are looking for love Bill, now I've just got to find myself one out there, hopefully shortly :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 02, 2019, 07:15:40 AM


It's great you think 90 percent of women are looking for love Bill, now I've just got to find myself one out there, hopefully shortly :)

That you haven't even clicked with one of the 90 percent, yet, should be telling you something needs changing...  YOU...your attitude to women would be a good start.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 02, 2019, 08:42:13 AM
"Most intimate relationships are built on emotion rather than transaction.

like fear and humiliation..

it's why I like Russians to FEAR me
it's how you earn their obedience...
through fear...

once you get a Russian to obey you, the rest is trivial...
they will work hard to please you the best way they can, no matter what...
obedience = submission...

I'm intrigued, How did you make them fear you Krim?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 02, 2019, 08:54:42 AM
That you haven't even clicked with one of the 90 percent, yet, should be telling you something needs changing...  YOU...your attitude to women would be a good start.

None of the girls I met was my attitude a problem. I haven't met that many girls so it's not just finding one of those 90 percent that want love it's also about finding one who is naturally into me.

Of the girls I have met potentially some of them may have been in that 90 percent that want love.

If you combine the 90 percent love and then add in the percentage of women that are naturally attracted to me, maybe at a guess say around 5 percent then it becomes a more difficult find.

Subtract from the 90 percent that want love those online who don't wish to communicate or meet because you don't fulfill the criteria they have in mind and the figure goes down more. More still if you are using sites where less than 90 percent are there for love.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SteveInBoston on May 02, 2019, 09:17:48 AM
If you combine the 90 percent love and then add in the percentage of women that are naturally attracted to me, maybe at a guess say around 5 percent then it becomes a more difficult find.

TC,

My last attempt at advice/suggestion for you:

What is there about you that a woman can love?  I’m not talking about your UK passport or your house - those are “transactional” things that you claim you want to avoid.

Are you gallant?  Are you charming?  Sincere?  A deep soul a woman can get lost in exploring?  Fun to be around, where she would miss your company when you are away? 

The 90% of women who want to fall in love need someone they can fall in love with.  Looks might spark initial interest, like a shiny object for a magpie.  But most women would get bored quick with just looks alone.  If you don’t have the looks you need somethng to spark that initial interest, like wit, charm, self confidence, something.  Then to hold her interest you’ll need to be someone she can love.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 02, 2019, 09:49:04 AM
"I'm intrigued, How did you make them fear you Krim?"

tell them scary stories...
and then right at the climatic moment...
you unexpectedly grab their arm and scream as loud as you can!
and then an instant later smile like nothing happened...

ok...not really...




Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 02, 2019, 03:46:49 PM
http://youtu.be/NWHedf01JEQ

That looks a great video Grumpy, only saw the first bit as on my data plan at the moment.

Think it shows FSW mindset and FSM who must be more mysogynist than me, hey Boe ;D

Like I say only seen the first bit, will watch the rest at home when where I've got broadband. It's interesting, it looks like we've got the traditional date girls where the guy pays half for the restaurant, old news to us on here and fair enough. We then have girls who seem to be after for more and see it as a natural extension to the concept that the guy pays, for some it's in  formal live in relationships but for others it just seems they expect it as the value they set themselves as. I note the term 'real man' crops up in terms of a guy who can provide more.

Interesting, it's like a different world compared to what we have had in the west for the past few decades. I still think that not paying out too much would be the way to go with the girls that want more, it would keep them hungry :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 02, 2019, 04:03:25 PM
Yes, this idea that the man always pays for everything, even where the woman makes just as much or even more money than the man, is a most disgusting feature of Eastern European culture.

I understand that is has been passed down and accepted by many generations.
And, I understand that it even goes back to the root situation where the man went out to kill the food and bring it back for the woman to prepare.

However, this is a new era and such foolishness is long out of date.

And it is totally incongruent with most all other aspects of life that such women have adopted.

i.e.  Historically they dressed and acted in a certain manner.  They have given up all of that, yet insist that only one thing be continued.

I did, of course, pay for everything (except as noted below) during my dating with FSU women.
However, there were quite a few who offered to pay, and some who even arrived at apartment with substantial amounts of food they had just purchased at market, etc. and would not take repayment.

And I am married to an FSUW who insists that she work and contribute to family expenses . . . even as I would just as soon she not work.

Back in the day in western society, men tended to pay in restaurants, thinking 50s and before, right through to the 80s. The 70s and 80s of which it probably started to tail off.

It's feminism that had been telling us we should play the game differently here. Instead of men earning a lot more and paying, men now earn much the same as women so often the restaurant bill is split halves.

Some guys still offer to pay it all but it's seen as a kind gesture than anything else. If you think about it it's not exactly showing a together sort of attitude/feeling if both dig in just to cover their portion at the end of it.

I think the old school/FSU way is actually preferably so long as you get a woman that doesn't want to try and twist it into getting stuff as opposed to dating. The women in the video Grumpy showed us seemed very content and at peace with the situation. I get the impression that it offers men a much easier time being able to get access to women. Instead of a girl thinking 'do I want to spend my hard earned cash on a diner date with this guy' as in the west the traditional/FSU model means that a girl loses nothing by dating a guy. So unless she really dislikes him the guy gets an opportunity to impress her on a date and find out how she is like.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 02, 2019, 04:13:07 PM
Think it shows FSW mindset and FSM who must be more mysogynist than me, hey Boe ;D

No.  They are overall more gallant.  They would not refuse to buy a woman a pack of cigarettes or give her cab fare home, as you did.   The fact that you don't see your misogyny, and make light of it, is an issue.  Your future wife will live in a country surrounded by British women who will point out that you are a misogynist.  So change the attitude, because if you don't, any relationship you have eventually will fail.

In Ukrainian families, women typically control the money.  Men hand their paycheques to their wives, who manage all expenses, in a lot of families, even doling out his spending money.

I didn't watch the whole video, but from the few interviews I did watch, I'd say these are women who don't want a normal family life.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 02, 2019, 04:15:38 PM
when I was single, I would allocate a budget for this...
you want to create a “reality distortion field” around yourself
so you only stay at either a Penthouse Suite in a high end Hotel or equivalent private apartment
you rent a driver for the day, and he’s on call 24/7
driver has “contacts” for every kind of “black market items” you can imagine....
so many perks
if you’re in a hotel, you tip the head doorman $100 and you introduce yourself and you remember his name and greet him in the future...

I put up job ads for an English speaking personal assistant in Shevchenko Univ library
was inundated with applications - pay was for $500 month + travel bonus
I interviewed a bunch of girls, narrowed it down to 3 who were making overtly sexual signs and then picked the one I fancied the most...
this is actually a pretty cheap way to get a young mistress, compared with buying her an apartment, etc.
as long as you pay her salary and take her places, she will give her body to you in exchange, and also because "she gets off on it" as well
and then whenever you want you can fire them and get a brand new one....
compare and contrast different ones...

there are NOW a ton of businesses you can do in Ukraine!!!
I just bought a buncha stuff off ebay that was shipped straight from Ukraine w/ no problem!
you hire personal assistants to do the actual work
all work combined with all play
and you guys aren't doing this because????

You're a clever guy Krim :) I think the main problem is guys getting stuck in paid employment or a static stayed business. They can pay well if you get a good one but I think they have a tendancy to kill creative thinking.

Most jobs it's, go here, do that, complete the assigned tasks etc. It creates a mindset of thinking in a linear way. It's not easy to get out of either, to do so at the wrong time can mean there is nothing to move too and hence worse circumstances. There's the need to be able to pick yourself up if a venture goes south rather than have to go running back to an employer also.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on May 02, 2019, 04:18:43 PM
That looks a great video Grumpy, only saw the first bit as on my data plan at the moment.

Think it shows FSW mindset and FSM who must be more mysogynist than me, hey Boe ;D

Like I say only seen the first bit, will watch the rest at home when where I've got broadband. It's interesting, it looks like we've got the traditional date girls where the guy pays half for the restaurant, old news to us on here and fair enough. We then have girls who seem to be after for more and see it as a natural extension to the concept that the guy pays, for some it's in  formal live in relationships but for others it just seems they expect it as the value they set themselves as. I note the term 'real man' crops up in terms of a guy who can provide more.

Interesting, it's like a different world compared to what we have had in the west for the past few decades. I still think that not paying out too much would be the way to go with the girls that want more, it would keep them hungry :P

Trench, I’ve always paid for local women when on dates, it’s what you do as a gentleman. It might surprise you but local women want to be treated exactly the same as fsu women, there for when in Russia I did what comes naturally and what all women expect no matter what culture they come from. From my perspective all genuine women have similar wants, needs and expectations from a man.

You are over thinking this far too much. Realistically after a solid day on this site you should have all you need to be successful in theory and then it comes down to your intuition and experience with women, developed from past relationships and dating.

You are putting far too many obstacles and insecurities in your way, because the perfect women for you, who will make you the happiest man in the world could be a 42 year old single mother and business woman who wears jeans 90% of the time. Love has no boundaries and the things you worry about are of the least concern for most men.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 02, 2019, 04:23:43 PM
No.  They are overall more gallant.  They would not refuse to buy a woman a pack of cigarettes or give her cab fare home, as you did.   The fact that you don't see your misogyny, and make light of it, is an issue.  Your future wife will live in a country surrounded by British women who will point out that you are a misogynist.  So change the attitude, because if you don't, any relationship you have eventually will fail.

In Ukrainian families, women typically control the money.  Men hand their paycheques to their wives, who manage all expenses, in a lot of families, even doling out his spending money.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I don't see smoking as at all lady like. I also see it as important not to be taken as a mug, the taxi fare the girl I was with was over the top, so she was lieing. Had she not lied the date may have lasted longer.

The guys in the video I get the impression probably would have paid. A guy just has to judge for himself if it seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 02, 2019, 04:25:18 PM
Your excuses for being a cheap schmuck.  That is how it was interpreted, and that's the reality.


You want it both ways.



This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 02, 2019, 04:28:36 PM
Trench, I’ve always paid for local women when on dates, it’s what you do as a gentleman. It might surprise you but local women want to be treated exactly the same as fsu women, there for when in Russia I did what comes naturally and what all women expect no matter what culture they come from. From my perspective all genuine women have similar wants, needs and expectations from a man.

You are over thinking this far too much. Realistically after a solid day on this site you should have all you need to be successful in theory and then it comes down to your intuition and experience with women, developed from past relationships and dating.

You are putting far too many obstacles and insecurities in your way, because the perfect women for you, who will make you the happiest man in the world could be a 42 year old single mother and business woman who wears jeans 90% of the time. Love has no boundaries and the things you worry about are of the least concern for most men.

All I can say is don't come and date UK women Davo, most of them will lynch you for insisting on paying for them, even just mentioning it can be a no, no. You will lose major points with a lot of UK women in n that one, it's all gone a bit Emma Watson over here.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Grumpy on May 02, 2019, 05:51:10 PM
Trench, I’ve always paid for local women when on dates, it’s what you do as a gentleman. It might surprise you but local women want to be treated exactly the same as fsu women, there for when in Russia I did what comes naturally and what all women expect no matter what culture they come from. From my perspective all genuine women have similar wants, needs and expectations from a man.



+1   If I ask a woman out, I pay all expenses until she is safely back to her home. That is what a gentleman does.
Trench may have missed the point of why I posted the video:
Ebeneezer Skinflint will NOT succeed in this venture.

Note: None of the women interviewed are likely to get a first date from me,  never mind a second date.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Grumpy on May 02, 2019, 06:01:59 PM
Trench; I wish you and everyone else a happy success in this adventure and hope to someday congratulate you on a happy marriage.

Grumpy 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 02, 2019, 10:23:09 PM

All I can say is don't come and date UK women Davo, most of them will lynch you for insisting on paying for them, even just mentioning it can be a no, no. You will lose major points with a lot of UK women in n that one, it's all gone a bit Emma Watson over here.

Do not believe a word Trench posts about UK women..

He has about as much 'success' dating them as FSU ones....

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on May 03, 2019, 06:45:43 AM
I always had very good luck with UK wimmin, despite having a driving handicap "over there"
I tend to "play up" my "Americanness" in dress and speech
I can do a dead on perfect southern accent, (I grew up in Virginia) and UK wimmin almost fainted when I spoke that way using vocabulary from "Jane Austin"  - "endeavor to ascertain"
I mean seriously, wimmin were just entranced by my voice and just stood there with their mouths hanging open whenever I spoke
then they'd follow me around everywhere I went...

when my cousin from the midlands came over to visit me, the wimmin here were just all over him...
I guess it's the accent...

my guess is that if I were living in the UK, I'd need an income of a MINIMUM of 100,000 GBP per yr to land a high quality spouse...
and so long as I had this income and were living in a large city, meeting a partner would be easy!!!


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Steamer on May 03, 2019, 06:54:40 AM
All I can say is don't come and date UK women Davo, most of them will lynch you for insisting on paying for them, even just mentioning it can be a no, no.


VERY  VERY  DOUBTFUL !!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on May 03, 2019, 10:14:06 AM
Yes, this idea that the man always pays for everything, even where the woman makes just as much or even more money than the man, is a most disgusting feature of Eastern European culture.

I understand that is has been passed down and accepted by many generations.
And, I understand that it even goes back to the root situation where the man went out to kill the food and bring it back for the woman to prepare.

However, this is a new era and such foolishness is long out of date.

And it is totally incongruent with most all other aspects of life that such women have adopted.

i.e.  Historically they dressed and acted in a certain manner.  They have given up all of that, yet insist that only one thing be continued.

I did, of course, pay for everything (except as noted below) during my dating with FSU women.
However, there were quite a few who offered to pay, and some who even arrived at apartment with substantial amounts of food they had just purchased at market, etc. and would not take repayment.

And I am married to an FSUW who insists that she work and contribute to family expenses . . . even as I would just as soon she not work.
The "man pays for everything" attitude in the FSU makes a lot of sense if you also include the other part of this "cultural equation": a woman is expected to be 100% responsible for all housework, raising children and overall taking care of all aspects of family logistics and functioning. Doesn't matter if she works or not. This is all 100% a "woman's job". a man is only expected to sit in front of the TV when he comes home from work. And the actual reality of this culture is even worse. Most women end up working and supporting their family AND continue to pull 100% of household/family/children responsibilities.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on May 03, 2019, 10:35:04 AM
The "man pays for everything" attitude in the FSU makes a lot of sense if you also include the other part of this "cultural equation": a woman is expected to be 100% responsible for all housework, raising children and overall taking care of all aspects of family logistics and functioning. Doesn't matter if she works or not. This is all 100% a "woman's job". a man is only expected to sit in front of the TV when he comes home from work. And the actual reality of this culture is even worse. Most women end up working and supporting their family AND continue to pull 100% of household/family/children responsibilities.

Yes, but the discussion is focused on pre marriage dating.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 03, 2019, 11:18:07 AM
http://youtu.be/NWHedf01JEQ

Watched the full video now Grumpy and I must say I found the whole video very uplifting :)

Now Boe if you're reading I will warn you watching that video may not be good for your health, particularly around 8.48 may mean you end up feeling like you need to be hospitalised ;D

Seriously, its great to have more of an insight into this, so thank you for showing us the vid Grumpy. Like the Interviewer I also like the end clip, it tells us a lot about FSU society, it's great that its so traditional. I see that women do not want the harsh lifestyle of a FSUM and are also socialised that it is an alien world to them. I also like the part around 8.48 where they reject the way of Western women and on this it supports the point I have often made about western women on here.

From the video it looks like to me also that my point about women being open to more men is true, they look at being a person that could please many a man.

There also seems to be slightly differeing ideas about what the man should provide beyond diner date expenses, when in a live in relationship also. My thought on this is that this ties in with what a Russian lady told me on here before that its is all about relationship gameplay. A women can state she expects such and such but that is not usually a demand even though it may be put across like one its more a point on which to bargain, a bit like an employer and a trade union rep in an industrial dispute. If you bargain well she will respect you for it, if you just give in to her demand particualarly straight away then you'll lose a lot of respect with her.

The issue of control was also intersting, now as said before I'm not the controlling type, but again I think this probably plays into a bit of gameplay in the relationship here, so long as its benign and not aggressive, coercive, etc its merely just fun & games apart from those FSUM that don't realise it as such.

I think overall the FSU way of dating can work well its just like for a lot of us WM in the past we were not clued up about the mechanics of how it all works and that's where for many a lot of problems arose. Its just really playing the game a different way, its another way of playing the dating game, just cutting the cake up differently.   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 03, 2019, 09:49:00 PM
It is amazing how easily some folks buy into this bollox

Then having watched a video think they are 'experts' and tell a FSU W they know better.....

So, Trench will be putting this into practise for his Kyiv trip and coming back still single......and wondering where he went wrong....
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 04, 2019, 02:38:18 AM
It is amazing how easily some folks buy into this bollox

Then having watched a video think they are 'experts' and tell a FSU W they know better.....

So, Trench will be putting this into practise for his Kyiv trip and coming back still single......and wondering where he went wrong....

I don't think it's wrong. There are good girls that ask for nothing as Gator says. The more hot a girl is potentially the more she may ask for, if she does then she risks screwing up the relationship, so some girls will know to shy away some won't care to. Then there are girls that are more into the guy so will shy away from asking for stuff.

The girls in this video seem mostly in at least their thirties so they are most likely screwing up a lot of their relationships by asking too much, seeing as they are presumably still single. That or they haven't met a guy they like enough or been treated in a firm manner by the guy.

This video in itself shows that there is a variation in FSW attitudes a little. I don't think the best girls were shown here but it tells us a lot about the general direction of the attitudes out there. Some girls on meeting a WM may choose to accept playing the game more towards western values, most I get the impression won't even if they are aware of western dating values.

I'm not saying this video is something to base a dating approach to FSW on. It more gives a great insight into the direction most FSW will long upon dating even with a WM. Its a real eye opener into why some women are more transactional and helps us understand that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 04, 2019, 02:57:34 AM
I don't think it's wrong.

You don't think, period, Trenchie ..   The vid is someone's perspective


It more gives a great insight into the direction most FSW

'Most' ? ..and how many do you KNOW to voice such an opinion?

Its a real eye opener into why some women are more transactional and helps us understand that.

With the greatest respect to the member posting it ... it's over-generalised bollox.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 04, 2019, 04:55:41 AM
You don't think, period, Trenchie ..   The vid is someone's perspective


'Most' ? ..and how many do you KNOW to voice such an opinion?

With the greatest respect to the member posting it ... it's over-generalised bollox.

The vid is from the perspective of a number of FSW not 'someone'. The interviewer stays largely neutral during it, he just wants to know more. If there was differing opinion of FSW that weren't shown I'm sure he would have stated it.

My intuition tells me if you or I went out and asked random FSW the same thing we would get much the same response, slightly varying but much the same.

You yourself have stated that you have paid in restaurants, it's the way over there. Some of the women in the vid seem to want more than that on various relationship basis.

The thing is Mobers, you have probably dated more professional working women in the FSU, they are likely to be different a bit, not the mainstream. Also if you have a lot of wealth a lot of FSW that aren't dense are going to treat you differently. They will see that getting with a real wealthy guy long term is more attractive than getting a few freebies in the short term. Yes they will be willing to give you a largely free ride in the hope of a very comfortable long term life. I think we have seen this on here many times such as that guy who got with an agency girl in her late twenties in Odessa but didn't ask for all expenses under the sun.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SteveInBoston on May 04, 2019, 07:27:32 AM
The vid is from the perspective of a number of FSW not 'someone'. The interviewer stays largely neutral during it, he just wants to know more. If there was differing opinion of FSW that weren't shown I'm sure he would have stated it.

Nope. The video was not about if women agreed or disagreed with the phrase/sentiment that a man's wallet is share and a woman's wallet is private (paraphrasing).  it was about why the women he selected for the interviews thought that way.  It started off biased.

I asked T about the phrase.  She stated something different:  "Shto tvoye to nashye, shto moye to moye" - "what's yours is ours, what's mine is mine".  It's part traditional and part joke.  It's true for women who make small money - just enough to pay for her clothes, beauty care and health care.  For women who make the same or more than the man, it's true when they start dating.  But as pitbull said long term relationships are different.  One of T's friend currently pays for everything, takes care of the house and the kids.  Her husband has been hiding his money around the house, which T's friend just found out about.  T advised her to leave the guy, but her friend loves him so after their fight she's still with him.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 04, 2019, 12:05:36 PM
As, ever

The lady puts it succinctly and better than I could ..

But will Trench take note ?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 04, 2019, 02:33:00 PM
Nope. The video was not about if women agreed or disagreed with the phrase/sentiment that a man's wallet is share and a woman's wallet is private (paraphrasing).  it was about why the women he selected for the interviews thought that way.  It started off biased.

I asked T about the phrase.  She stated something different:  "Shto tvoye to nashye, shto moye to moye" - "what's yours is ours, what's mine is mine".  It's part traditional and part joke.  It's true for women who make small money - just enough to pay for her clothes, beauty care and health care.  For women who make the same or more than the man, it's true when they start dating.  But as pitbull said long term relationships are different.  One of T's friend currently pays for everything, takes care of the house and the kids.  Her husband has been hiding his money around the house, which T's friend just found out about.  T advised her to leave the guy, but her friend loves him so after their fight she's still with him.

I know, I didn't take the 'what yours is mine and what mine is mine' literally. It's a case when two people get together of agreeing the mechanics of how that relationship will work. In most relationships there comes the concept of sharing and also of each others needs being met. It really all depends upon circumstance, many couples agree to a joint bank account, they likely have single bank accounts also. However, if the man is the main or sole earner and the expenses for the couple largely take up most incomings, particularly after having had xholdren, then what would be the point of each having a single bank account, if there is no to little money left over to put in it.

On the other hand if the guy is quite wealthy and has a good income then he can no doubt put money for living expenses in a joint account each month and still keep his single bank account(s). It would be unrealistic to expect the wealthy guy to let the girl he is in a LTR or married to access to all his money.

So as said before it's really all about negotiation beyond the basic FSU etiquette that the man pays for the restaurant expenses.

It's like T's friend, a relationship can have more milage the more a girl actually loves a guy. Beyond that it has been said in places that some FSW stay with a guy because they don't want to be out of a relationship or have had kids with him so don't wish to bring financial hardship on them. There can be an element of gameplay in a relationship but also if the guy is handing his money into a joint account or to T's friend then he may feel it oppressive after a while and/or want to get something for himself. So circumstance and necessity can play a part.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2019, 02:21:54 PM

He didn't exclude them.  He just didn't translate the responses that didn't conform with what he wanted to present.


Their purpose is to portray a specific narrative of their society to the gullible WM who are going to watch the video.  It appears they succeeded in at least one case.


Yes, there is enough space for everyone to have a career if that is what they want.    Your oft repeated statement that women displace men in the workforce is rather silly, and is borne of misogyny.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

There's not enough space in the workforce Boe, it's a feminist idea of wanting your cake and eating it. There was only so many guys that got careers before the western feminist revolution in the 70s so it stands to reason that percentage wise towards half of those careers that went to men no longer do.

I don't believe there was any thing shown not translated. It could only be guessed at that other stuff was not translated and not shown. I don't believe that was the interviewers intention.

Find some other videos on YouTube that show sometging other, they are surely bound to be on there if such exists.

I think you are seeing the video as far more than what it is. It's not saying that these girls try and put on a guy for stuff in a casual relationship. It's essentially saying the same as we commonly know on here that a guy pays for the restaurant date. Thereafter in a live in relationship they have certain expectations/wants. It's always up for discussion though, just because they state a man's wallet is a shared wallet doesn't mean it will be, it depends on circumstance and negotiation. A bit like the Employer and Trade Union guy in an industrial dispute as mentioned earlier. You wouldn't expect the TU guy to agree upfront with the Employer nor the Employer to cave into the TU guys demands of the bat.

These girls maybe slightly on the farther end of most average FSW but it's generally near enough the direction most are I believe.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 05, 2019, 02:39:03 PM
There's not enough space in the workforce Boe, it's a feminist idea of wanting your cake and eating it. There was only so many guys that got careers before the western feminist revolution in the 70s so it stands to reason that percentage wise towards half of those careers that went to men no longer do.

There has always been cyclical unemployment in capitalist societies/mixed economies, so this is a poor excuse for your misogyny.

How, exactly, is working to become educated, then going to work all day, and, when married with children, getting up an hour earlier to feed children breakfast, make lunches, work all day, come home, make dinner, feed children, take them to extracurricular activities, help them with homework, bathe them, read stories, put them to bed, then tidy up the house "having your cake and eating it too"?

Women who work carry two work burdens,  Studies have proven this. 

Quote
I don't believe there was any thing shown not translated. It could only be guessed at that other stuff was not translated and not shown. I don't believe that was the interviewers intention.

You don't have to believe it.  I understand Russian and can read English.  I heard what was said and not translated.

If it were not the vlogger's intention, he would have translated comments that didn't fit with the narrative he wished to present.
Quote
I think you are seeing the video as far more than what it is. It's not saying that these girls try and put on a guy for stuff in a casual relationship. It's essentially saying the same as we commonly know on here that a guy pays for the restaurant date. Thereafter in a live in relationship they have certain expectations/wants. It's always up for discussion though, just because they state a man's wallet is a shared wallet doesn't mean it will be, it depends on circumstance and negotiation. A bit like the Employer and Trade Union guy in an industrial dispute as mentioned earlier. You wouldn't expect the TU guy to agree upfront with the Employer nor the Employer to cave into the TU guys demands of the bat.

I am responding to what you posted.  I don't really care about the video.

Your interpretation of the society, based on the video, is flawed, because you don't understand the society but worse, you assume you do.

Quote
These girls maybe slightly on the farther end of most average FSW but it's generally near enough the direction most are I believe.
And you base this on what?  Your two weeks on ground in Ukraine?  Your three week "relationship"?  Your lack of fluency in Russian?

Are you aware of what the average RM would have said to most of those women?

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 05, 2019, 03:32:39 PM
There has always been cyclical unemployment in capitalist societies/mixed economies, so this is a poor excuse for your misogyny.

How, exactly, is working to become educated, then going to work all day, and, when married with children, getting up an hour earlier to feed children breakfast, make lunches, work all day, come home, make dinner, feed children, take them to extracurricular activities, help them with homework, bathe them, read stories, put them to bed, then tidy up the house "having your cake and eating it too"?

Women who work carry two work burdens,  Studies have proven this. 

You don't have to believe it.  I understand Russian and can read English.  I heard what was said and not translated.

If it were not the vlogger's intention, he would have translated comments that didn't fit with the narrative he wished to present.
I am responding to what you posted.  I don't really care about the video.

Your interpretation of the society, based on the video, is flawed, because you don't understand the society but worse, you assume you do.
And you base this on what?  Your two weeks on ground in Ukraine?  Your three week "relationship"?  Your lack of fluency in Russian?

Are you aware of what the average RM would have said to most of those women?

This post was composed without the aid of google.

That's the point these women are trying to make in the video. WW want to do everything, but you don't need to do everything, historically the roles were split, women mainly did domestic, men did work. Today's WW are messing it all up by trying to do everything, wanting a career and doing domestic stuff, having children. They should do one or the other to do justice to either and themselves. So you think their fellow colleagues at work love it when they have to dash out the office to deal with yet another child emergency just to leave their colleagues floundering and stressed out covering their work, yet again. Do you think the children are emotionally well supported, or is the school teacher supposed to pick up for the lack of devotion from the woman? Yet another task for them to add to their long list before actually getting around to teaching the kids. No it is WW that are being greedy, wanting it all and rejecting any notion of them being selfish, the negatives or the harm it is doing others in wanting it so. You don't like this video as it shows just that from what FSW say. BTW they were speaking in English through most of the video.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on May 05, 2019, 05:01:48 PM
That's the point these women are trying to make in the video. WW want to do everything, but you don't need to do everything, historically the roles were split, women mainly did domestic, men did work. Today's WW are messing it all up by trying to do everything, wanting a career and doing domestic stuff, having children. They should do one or the other to do justice to either and themselves. So you think their fellow colleagues at work love it when they have to dash out the office to deal with yet another child emergency just to leave their colleagues floundering and stressed out covering their work, yet again. Do you think the children are emotionally well supported, or is the school teacher supposed to pick up for the lack of devotion from the woman? Yet another task for them to add to their long list before actually getting around to teaching the kids. No it is WW that are being greedy, wanting it all and rejecting any notion of them being selfish, the negatives or the harm it is doing others in wanting it so. You don't like this video as it shows just that from what FSW say. BTW they were speaking in English through most of the video.


Trench 65% of Russian women work and 70% of women in the England do also. Even in a family environment with a husband, many Russian women bring in a second income and historically have done for many years.

If you find a woman it’s likely she will want to work so your family has a comfort life.  They are smart women, they know how things work in the west and realise that middle income families (your future family) in countries like England, Australia and the US also require two incomes to have a good quality of life.

I made this clear to k immediately when we started developing feelings for each other and disclosed my full financial situation regarding wage mortgage, and my living expenses, so she had a full understanding of what she would expect if we eventually lived together. It gave her a chance to move on also if it wasn’t the life for her..... I believe her reply something like  “Russian women like to work and I’m no different” 

I think you underestimate the extra expense of being married. Sure you might scrape by on your income alone, but once children come along, she starts driving and wants to live the life of those around her eg- regular overseas holidays, eating out, romantic weekends away, a new car, house improvements etc... etc... she won’t stay in that situation long. She’ll either dump you or hopefully for your sake insist on working for your family. Children are a huge expense and any mother wants to give her children the best in life. She will want to give them opportunity’s like sport, hobbies and even private education, you will need double what you earn now or more.

I won’t comment too much on a working mother’s lack of devotion, children’s emotional state or time needed off work as what you say is BS.... I’m a working single father of 4 and my kids achieve straight A’s, have a strong family ethics, are polite and well mannered and as emotionally stable as children who have parents that are together. 

Your comments are actually an insult to FSU working mothers. I’ve talked to many and they do a wonderful job of raising their children and also working.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on May 06, 2019, 05:08:18 AM
That simply is untrue.  Look at the few agrarian societies today, and  you will see that women's roles are far beyond domestic duties.  That is what agrarian life was like in the West, as well.

As Western societies urbanized, women participated in the labour force, often working 14 hours days for paltry wages, in addition to domestic chores.  Where women did not have equal participation was in occupations that required higher education, as their degrees often were not recognized.

I suggest you read some history before making such boldly inaccurate pronouncements.
I was a working mother.  Not once did a colleague ever have to cover for me because my child was ill.  When my children had earaches, which always seemed to occur between 11 pm and 1 am, it was me, not my husband, who drove them to the ER, and who picked up their prescriptions at a 24 hour pharmacy before getting up to make breakfast and lunch for my other children before work.  I don't think I am unique in this.  What was unique in our family was that we split our work schedules so that one of us was home with our children.

I don't think a working mother provides less love or emotional stability to a child.  You haven't raised children, so your opinions on this are worthless.

Davo is correct, most FSUW work outside the home, and always have, although in Russia, they are paid to stay home with children until the age of 2.  Ukraine used to be 1 year, but the stipend is so paltry, women must supplement their incomes.  So in this respect, FSUW are no different from WW. 


As for the video, it doesn't matter if they were mostly speaking English.  I know what was said in Russian, and what was not translated.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

If Ukraine's economy was not in such a state they would be doing the same as Russia and paying women to stay at home until the child is 2. Economic pressure can push women to do more in curtain situations which call for it. Yet the best state of affairs for society and both genders is for the woman to stay at home and keep home and not think selfishly in going out for more.

It's not great in the workplace for a load of people to end up working part time, better to have people their full time rather than trying to further their careers on a part time basis, essentially they are not whole heartedly committed to either task.

I don't think the Russian part was significant enough that anything not translated woyld significantly change what was said. In any case I will use Google Voice translate when I get time and see if that comes up with anything significant.

You can't say Boe that dating in the FSU isn't different. How many girls in western society would repay a guy buying them a meal by spreading their legs right after?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on May 06, 2019, 07:04:27 AM
“You can't say Boe that dating in the FSU isn't different. How many girls in western society would repay a guy buying them a meal by spreading their legs right after?”

You haven’t dated much, have you trench? Have you not been presented with the opportunity of a one night stand locally?

I was introduced to a friend of a close female friend. I bought her a drink. 15 minutes later she had her hands down my pants in the pub car park, trying to entice me back to her house. Not the type of girl you would marry and you wouldn’t if she was a fsu woman either.

Women are the same no matter where they live, they all have different personalities and standards. If you ever have the chance to date a genuine UK woman, you would treat her no differently to a genuine FSU woman IMO.... the problem is you have had no experience with either and there for are going about this in an aimless fashion.

While I wish you all the luck for your upcoming trip, a good example of what I said above is you attempting the most difficult way to meet women in dating... cold aproaches during the day. You’re not an extrovert like others here and with little experience, it’s very easy to come across creepy in this situation. Guys that are not naturally gifted, but are successful have approached 10’s if not 100’s of women.... how many have you approached leading up to your trip?. Any contact you can have with any women at the moment is going to help you.... skinny, overweight, single mothers, easy.... whatever
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on May 06, 2019, 08:06:05 AM
I was introduced to a friend of a close female friend. I bought her a drink. 15 minutes later she had her hands down my pants in the pub car park, trying to entice me back to her house.

Reminds me of my very first day in Japan as a 17 year old boy.

Went into a bar and wondered how to go about picking up a gal.

The first gal that walked up to me grabbed my crotch and said: "You want to buy me a drink?"

I thought I had died and gone to heaven !!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 06, 2019, 09:04:43 AM


You can't say Boe that dating in the FSU isn't different. How many girls in western society would repay a guy buying them a meal by spreading their legs right after?


I am struggling to comprehend Trench..

Is he suggesting FSW have opened their legs for him, because he bought them a meal?....I seriously think not...

Trench is just too daft to realise that people indulge in games for two ( normally) because of a connection and trust..

That happens whether in the west or the FSU..

Honestly, Trench...do you read before posting such bollox?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on May 06, 2019, 03:46:50 PM
If Ukraine's economy was not in such a state they would be doing the same as Russia and paying women to stay at home until the child is 2. Economic pressure can push women to do more in curtain situations which call for it. Yet the best state of affairs for society and both genders is for the woman to stay at home and keep home and not think selfishly in going out for more.

No, Ukraine's issue is not the economy.  It is that politicians are in office to enrich themselves, and don't care about the well being of the population, or the country. 

If you think the best thing for women is to stay home to take care of a home, then presumably, you also think they should receive 60% or more of marital assets, plus the matrimonial home if children are still living there, in the event of a dissolution of the marriage, and, as primary caregivers, full custody of any children of the marriage.

Personally, I reject the idea that it is "better for society" for women to stay home.  Children do need a parent home  before they start school, but that period is rather short.  The only way that can be done in today's world is for government to provide significant tax benefits, so that the majority of families can afford such a set up.

Quote
It's not great in the workplace for a load of people to end up working part time, better to have people their full time rather than trying to further their careers on a part time basis, essentially they are not whole heartedly committed to either task.

Untrue.  Happy workers living balanced lives are the most productive.

However, if you wish to take this tack, then physician, heal thyself. 

Quote
I don't think the Russian part was significant enough that anything not translated woyld significantly change what was said. In any case I will use Google Voice translate when I get time and see if that comes up with anything significant.

Since you don't know what was said, and I do, I disagree.

Quote
You can't say Boe that dating in the FSU isn't different. How many girls in western society would repay a guy buying them a meal by spreading their legs right after?

Proof yet again of your misogyny.

First, as Davo and ML pointed out, you can find women who will, as you so vulgarly put it, "spread their legs" right after a guy buys them a meal or a drink.   It's why I laughed at another poster coming here to crow about a 20 something UW coming to his bed the night they met.  Wow!  What an accomplishment!  A foreigner with money bedding a girl looking for nothing more than a good time. 

I remember a poster here who visited Ukraine for a week.  A few weeks later, he posted about how he'd just been out on a date with an AW, she paid for dinner, and he got laid.  He compared it to his Ukrainian foray, where he shelled out for 3 dinners, and didn't get laid once.  He wasn't complaining, he posted in a humorous way, which is why I remember that post.  He also wasn't someone with no or limited experience with women. 

The fact is, not every FSUW is going to "spread her legs" after a dinner, just as not every WW does.  In fact, the vast majority of FSUW will not.  But if this is your thinking, why are you looking for a wife in a country where the women are, in your mind, sluts with no morals?  After all, even with a child, such a woman will find another man for whom she can "spread (her) legs".

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Grumpy on May 06, 2019, 07:28:45 PM
I would remind everyone of this link:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=24

In particular this section:
Be a gentleman in all respects. Being a gentleman comes with many obligations. It's not just opening doors or taking a lady's hand as she alights from a car. It includes taking responsibility for all of the masculine duties and showing a lady the ultimate in respect and care.

Gentlemanly behavior isn't an option with most FSUW. There is an expectation that you will be decisive, attentive and well-mannered at all times.

A gentleman should accept financial responsibility for dates, and expect nothing in return for dates or gifts given. If you invite a lady to dinner be prepared to happily pay for the bill without question or expectation of any returned favors by the lady. A FSU man would almost always pay the costs of a date and western men dating in FSU should do no less.

Paying for a date doesn't mean you should expect any privileges or favors, but often a lady will make her own contributions later on through special things she will do for her man. Some of these things might appear to have a low financial cost to you but may be of significant personal value to her.

If you are taking responsibility for arranging dating activities, you will be the one to set the pace of the expenditure. A man should never outspend his capacity but he should understand there is an expectation that he will not rely on a lady to pay half the costs.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on May 06, 2019, 10:06:30 PM
A good FSU woman will attenuate her requests to something that is comfortable for her man to provide.   One who doesn't should not be indulged past the revealing encounter.  For those FSU women reading this, take notice. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Davo on May 07, 2019, 08:45:24 PM
Reminds me of my very first day in Japan as a 17 year old boy.

Went into a bar and wondered how to go about picking up a gal.

The first gal that walked up to me grabbed my crotch and said: "You want to buy me a drink?"

I thought I had died and gone to heaven !!

I think you got the better deal. The next morning I realised it wasn’t the smartest decision I’d made in my life.... she had already decided I was her new boyfriend. It took a 2 days to convince her it wasn’t happening!! 😣
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on May 09, 2019, 09:04:25 AM
Quote from: ML on May 06, 2019, 11:06:05 AM
Reminds me of my very first day in Japan as a 17 year old boy.

Went into a bar and wondered how to go about picking up a gal.

The first gal that walked up to me grabbed my crotch and said: "You want to buy me a drink?"

I thought I had died and gone to heaven !!

- - - - - - - - - -

I think you got the better deal. The next morning I realised it wasn’t the smartest decision I’d made in my life.... she had already decided I was her new boyfriend. It took a 2 days to convince her it wasn’t happening!! 😣

I just remembered more about that time.

On board Navy ship we had been given talk that most all of the gals there had some sort of STD.

So with this first gal I was somewhat worried.  Then, I looked at her completely bare back (still in the bar) and didn't see any sores or scabs.  Thus I was pretty sure she had no STDs.

Pretty wise analysis I would say.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on May 10, 2019, 03:24:01 AM
Quote from: ML on May 06, 2019, 11:06:05 AM
 

On board Navy ship we had been given talk that most all of the gals there had some sort of STD.

So with this first gal I was somewhat worried.  Then, I looked at her completely bare back (still in the bar) and didn't see any sores or scabs.  Thus I was pretty sure she had no STDs.

Pretty wise analysis I would say.

I trust you posted this 'medical assessment 'tongue  in cheek, so to speak..? 

Seeing a 'clean' bareback is not the wisest citeria to go bareback...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SocialistNerd on May 30, 2019, 06:24:32 PM
Isn't it pretty cynical to assume that the prettier the girl the more materialistic she is?

Of course, I guess that I tend to be the more optimistic in my outlook.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 10, 2019, 10:54:50 PM
Thing is I guess to try and find some business a FSW can do at home to earn a bit of money. Something that is no big deal to do and gentle enough to not be seen as a full on job but at home. Would help keep her mind occupied and off shagging other blokes while you're at work me thinks.

What do you reckon Krim?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 10, 2019, 11:20:22 PM
Trench,
if you keep a woman sexually satisfied AND you take her shopping and protect her
she will never leave your side...
I'm serious....

I owe my success with women to my proficiency at "oral"
this is a secret weapon western guys in Ukraine have that most Russian guys DO NOT have....
give a woman in Ukraine an oral orgasm, and it'll almost always be her first time...
and she will follow you around like a little puppy dog wanting to be petted...
word...
I'm telling you...

happened EVERY time...
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 10, 2019, 11:39:36 PM
Trench,
if you keep a woman sexually satisfied AND you take her shopping and protect her
she will never leave your side...
I'm serious....

I owe my success with women to my proficiency at "oral"
this is a secret weapon western guys in Ukraine have that most Russian guys DO NOT have....
give a woman in Ukraine an oral orgasm, and it'll almost always be her first time...
and she will follow you around like a little puppy dog wanting to be petted...
word...
I'm telling you...

happened EVERY time...

Sounds like it would be worth a venture :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 10, 2019, 11:41:49 PM
 :wallbash:
I would like to have children, if a FSW wanted the same and we at least got along this wouldn't necessarily be such a bad way for either side to do it. After all there are surrogate mother's and sperm donors so this could be quite preferably, no prostitution.

Why are you polluting the thread with your irrelevant thoughts ?

1/ You have made it clear you do not seek a FSU  W with a kid...let alone two

2/ You have no experience of a FSU woman living with you ..having trusted you to leave her home

3/ You haven't even been in a relationship with one that lasted one than a visit and a disastrous holiday together

You opinions are worthless..



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 11, 2019, 01:15:30 AM
I would like to have children, if a FSW wanted the same and we at least got along this wouldn't necessarily be such a bad way for either side to do it. After all there are surrogate mother's and sperm donors so this could be quite preferably, no prostitution.

Sure it is.  Surrogate mothers/sperm donors are monetary exchanges as well.

A girl I was briefly with a couple of years back in Ukraine told me that she would not work in the UK, not even in a part time job. She expected the man to pay for it all.

I suspect she told you this to get rid of you, once you served your purpose.



Some US guys think the guy should pay for a FSW children through College. That's fine if real wealthy or particularly close relationship with them. Myself though I wouldn't see it as my responsibility, most higher ed. In the FSU is not of the level of the west. I would see it as an extra that the FSW or her kids should pay if they want it, it's being overly generous of the guy funding it in my opinion.


If you "import" a woman and her children, you have an obligation to support those children as if they were your own.  That typically means helping them with education.

Not every FSU university is inferior to that of the West, either, and many FSU educated individuals can get jobs easily in the West.  The issue is that one never knows if that FSU degree was actually obtained, or if it was just printed.  Even if a degree is not fully recognized most FSU individuals with degrees get some credit for FSU coursework.

This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2019, 10:05:27 AM
Sure it is.  Surrogate mothers/sperm donors are monetary exchanges as well.

I suspect she told you this to get rid of you, once you served your purpose.



If you "import" a woman and her children, you have an obligation to support those children as if they were your own.  That typically means helping them with education.

Not every FSU university is inferior to that of the West, either, and many FSU educated individuals can get jobs easily in the West.  The issue is that one never knows if that FSU degree was actually obtained, or if it was just printed.  Even if a degree is not fully recognized most FSU individuals with degrees get some credit for FSU coursework.

This post was composed without the aid of google.





Not true, she made quite an attempt to get me to see it how she sees it. I think in the end we didn't trust each other among other issues, too much distrust had built up. I didn't realise how decisively she viewed matters. I also didn't realise that she had a transactional nature I now believe derived from her want of clothes fashion and her poor background. As Krim says many UW want something and I think that can make a girl behave transactional if they see men as their only avenue left to get it. She basically had other ways available to put me off, I could tell this was her world view and not a method of putting me off her.

In the UK, parents are responsible up to the age of 18, anything beyond that is down to their desire to help out more. I don't see it as a FSW children are entitled by the WM to provide uni education, it's additional education not the basic standard education. They could after all go back to the FSU at that age if they so wished.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 11, 2019, 10:55:35 AM

if I were you, before I did ANYTHING else
I'd figure out how to make more money!!!!!
and then, go and do it!!!

He keeps wanting people to agree with him that he doesn't need
to make more money and he ignores all those who tell him
otherwise.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 11, 2019, 10:58:12 AM
I assume a lot of sex tourists go to the FSU as they want sex with hot FSW but don't or can't afford to support FSW and any kids.

It's always been cheaper to rent rather than buy.
You can't afford a FSW or kids.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 11, 2019, 11:00:00 AM

Otherwise known as "prostitution". 


You've posted in the past that you don't want to "import" a woman that will leave you.  How is this really different?

I think he is more worried that she will leave him AND get the House.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2019, 11:22:06 AM
It's always been cheaper to rent rather than buy.
You can't afford a FSW or kids.

Not true, if I lived in the US on a comparable salary this would be true. In the UK our schools are funded by the state as is health care, etc. This combined with me owning my own house means it's within my means.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 11, 2019, 11:47:03 AM
Not true, if I lived in the US on a comparable salary this would be true. In the UK our schools are funded by the state as is health care, etc. This combined with me owning my own house means it's within my means.

I don't know your laws. In the USA you have to make 125% of the poverty
rate or more in order to obtain a VISA for a spouse or Fiancee. However,
deciding to have a go with the bare, barest minimum is a very, very bad
plan.

You've never raised a child, I have. They require all sorts of things. You've
never supported an FSUW, I have. They require all sorts of things. You also
need money for a rainy day. Let's say you have it now, for ONE rainy day.
What happens the next rainy day?

How often do FSUW live with their parents? 90% of the time? What happens
when/if her Mamma needs medicine? What happens if her father gets sick
and can't work for a month or two? You don't just marry a girl, you marry
her AND her immediate family.

You are assuming things you know little or nothing about. You are ignoring
people who have been there and done that. Surely you are smart enough
to get a job that pays more money. Are you too lazy? Are you in some
kind of rut? The average salary in the UK is £27,600 that's $34.5K.
How far below average do you plan to be long term?

Why don't you just try to get yourself up to average? You don't have
to be like me and try to excel at everything.


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on July 11, 2019, 12:46:16 PM
 :wallbash:
Not true, if I lived in the US on a comparable salary this would be true. In the UK our schools are funded by the state as is health care, etc. This combined with me owning my own house means it's within my means.


Oh Trenchie,

Pl-ease stop posting utter bollox.

You may try to BS a cousin across the pond, but there are folks that know the cost of living in the UK and you are talking out of your arse...as usual.

http://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/blog/what-is-the-average-cost-to-have-a-baby (http://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/blog/what-is-the-average-cost-to-have-a-baby)




At the very least..each child is going to cost £5000 year to 18 years including a summer holiday (vacation) a year..


Honestly, when will you post about something you DO understand / know about?


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2019, 12:52:15 PM
I don't know your laws. In the USA you have to make 125% of the poverty
rate or more in order to obtain a VISA for a spouse or Fiancee. However,
deciding to have a go with the bare, barest minimum is a very, very bad
plan.

You've never raised a child, I have. They require all sorts of things. You've
never supported an FSUW, I have. They require all sorts of things. You also
need money for a rainy day. Let's say you have it now, for ONE rainy day.
What happens the next rainy day?

How often do FSUW live with their parents? 90% of the time? What happens
when/if her Mamma needs medicine? What happens if her father gets sick
and can't work for a month or two? You don't just marry a girl, you marry
her AND her immediate family.

You are assuming things you know little or nothing about. You are ignoring
people who have been there and done that. Surely you are smart enough
to get a job that pays more money. Are you too lazy? Are you in some
kind of rut? The average salary in the UK is £27,600 that's $34.5K.
How far below average do you plan to be long term?

Why don't you just try to get yourself up to average? You don't have
to be like me and try to excel at everything.

Like said vefore, the average UK salary in the UK is not what is achievable for most people, it's a mean average so it takes into account millionaires directors pay, those getting paid at the top end, that skews it somewhat.

Commonly most people can achieve in the £21-23k if they really want it. Unless you're lucky that will come with some degree of work and stress. To give you an idea of the jobs that pay around £27k here they will be team/department managers in companies or for the council, or a reasonably experienced Accountant, Architect, Engineer, a year/subject head teacher or possibly some type of Lawyer. The Employer will be asking for their pound of flesh for these jobs. They will come with a lot stress, pressure and workload in almost all cases. Teachers probably getting of the lightest at this level.

The more stress, pressure and workload the more unbearable the job can become and keep hold off. The less your going to feel like doing internet dating messaging in your spare time. Mostly you'll just want to de-stress in that time.

Better to either set a successful not too stressful business or get a way of securing an independent income.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 11, 2019, 12:59:59 PM
No, Trench, she was probably not trying to get you to think her way.  Once she had what she wanted, and saw you weren't going to try to get her a visa to the UK, she wanted to get rid of you.  This is a common way for UW to do so.

The average wage for a full time worker in the UK is just short of £37,000.  That's an average.  Most of the UK posters here, not just moby have posted that the salary you posted is insufficient to support a foreign wife.  Bill is correct about raising children.  It would be difficult to make ends meet with a child even with the "average" UK salary, which is why most British women work.

Google was used to obtain the average UK salary for this post.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2019, 01:00:42 PM

Oh Trenchie,

Pl-ease stop posting utter bollox.

You may try as BS a cousin across the pond, but there are folks that know the cost of living in the UK and you are talking out of your arse...as usual.

http://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/blog/what-is-the-average-cost-to-have-a-baby (http://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/blog/what-is-the-average-cost-to-have-a-baby)




At the very least..each child is going to cost £5000 year to 18 years including a summer holiday (vacation) a year..


Honestly, when will you post about something you DO understand / know about?

A BS site where they have plucked the figures from out of their rear. In my family their is so many toys and baby gear floating around that I wouldn't likely need to spend out that much, add to that websites like gumtree and these figures are way of course. Food and nappies & a few extras and you're done, & sorted.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 11, 2019, 01:01:37 PM
ROFL.  So says the man who has never raised a child.  Anyone who has, or is, knows your post is bollocks.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2019, 01:18:48 PM
No, Trench, she was probably not trying to get you to think her way.  Once she had what she wanted, and saw you weren't going to try to get her a visa to the UK, she wanted to get rid of you.  This is a common way for UW to do so.

The average wage for a full time worker in the UK is just short of £37,000.  That's an average.  Most of the UK posters here, not just moby have posted that the salary you posted is insufficient to support a foreign wife.  Bill is correct about raising children.  It would be difficult to make ends meet with a child even with the "average" UK salary, which is why most British women work.

Google was used to obtain the average UK salary for this post.

The jobs that go from around £27-37k or so you don't just walk into. They need extensive experience, qualifications and probably contacts. You're going to have to be impressive at interview also the way most people aren't.

I don't think at the time of the conversation she had given up on coming here. She tried to push on this after the holiday. I considered at that point it was a visa she was after. I don't think her opinion on how things would be was affected by that. I think she had bought into the dream of being provided for in the UK. That it would be the same if she stayed with me or went with another guy once in the UK. A big argument while still on holiday to put me off her wouldn't have served her needs at that point.

I have since gotten the impression she was driven by her mentality. She may have wanted to get into the UK or just wanted another holiday, or perhaps she was straight up and too head strong with determining what she wants and how it is done. I think many FSW doing International Dating tend to want to drive things the way they want and that can and has destroyed many good relationships with WM.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 11, 2019, 01:22:58 PM
Trench,

raising a family is expensive, I know because I’m the one who pays the credit card bills every month for mine...

my advice, don’t depend on a job for your income, figure out a way to start your own business and do it part time until it makes you enough to do full time

another idea, if you already own a house, can you use that as collateral to buy another fixer upper house and “flip it”, and then another and another...

you mentioned before, the subject of furniture...

I can’t remember the name of the company, but more than 10- yr ago I saw a company in Ternopil that made cheap wooden furniture
they were looking for distributors in the USA
I think you could’ve taken their basic wooden furniture and “enhanced it”
it was REALLY low priced!!!

there are actually a LOT of furniture makers in Ukraine...
you might be able to find one that could make a “semi” finished product for you to complete

http://destinations.com.ua/fashion-shops/interior-design/592-the-best-furniture-manufacturers-in-ukraine-2018

http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/UA/beech-wood-furniture.html

check this out


in Crimea, I had guys who would be considered master carpenters/craftsmen, artists even
work for $500 usd/month
they did my parquet floors among other things
but they could've built furniture easily
one of them made a circular staircase completely of wood
a masterpiece!

In Ukraine, I gave my brother in law about $10,000 to buy the table saws
and help making a lumber drying kiln
so he could buy the lumber to make custom wooden doors!
he has a successful business doing this in two cities now!!!
just him and one other guy
he paid for his own delivery truck!





Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 11, 2019, 01:27:39 PM
The jobs that go from around £27-37k or so you don't just walk into. They need extensive experience, qualifications and probably contacts. You're going to have to be impressive at interview also the way most people aren't.


That is an average wage, so I think you're making excuses.

Quote
I have since gotten the impression she was driven by her mentality. She may have wanted to get into the UK or just wanted another holiday, or perhaps she was straight up and too head strong with determining what she wants and how it is done. I think many FSW doing International Dating tend to want to drive things the way they want and that can and has destroyed many good relationships with WM.


Or maybe you're just unrealistic.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 11, 2019, 04:53:08 PM
 ;D

those posting who have raised children have pretty much nailed the key points of the process

having raised 4 of my own biological children and then partly raised 3 step children additionally i would say to those who have never had children to raise and take care of you need to stop with the theory and know it all posts your writing  on the subject  and take heed of those who have done this  ;)

its along term committment and responsibility  to them and your partner
its along term contract of hard work on your part to those you are bringing into this world or your current life
fathers need to take responsibility for their family , that is everything , nothing less than 100% , if you cant give that then dont get involved

stop treating it as some sort of simple equation that you have all figured out down pat
life is not like that with children in any relationship

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2019, 05:40:25 PM

That is an average wage, so I think you're making excuses.


Or maybe you're just unrealistic.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Thing is I think a lot of FSW perhaps get into trying to date WM with preset fixed ideas that may often involve using a guy as a visa mule. Most of these girls are towards the young and nieve side. The chance of it working are slim, they think they can railroad a guy into it just because the guy has let girl get her way in earlier matters. They don't realise that a lot of these guys aren't stupid and that when it all falls apart for them. If they thought it through more instead of trying to bulldoze their way through to it they would realise there chances were realistically the best but co-operating with the guy and getting with the guy and being satisfied with that. They unfortunately think they can have everything they want in the bargain and not give anything, in the end they often end up getting nothing for their obstinacy.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 11, 2019, 05:52:38 PM
Sure that occurs, but I think it's a minority of women. 


Your attitude guarantees failure, incidentally.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2019, 06:43:56 PM
Sure that occurs, but I think it's a minority of women. 


Your attitude guarantees failure, incidentally.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I would say that thinking a FSW is being untrustworthy means that there is a tendancy to read into what is said by her. Thinking bad of her has a tendancy to end in exchanges going south. Not all FSW are up to something but some are. Add to that a different culture and personalities and what is normal to the girl can be strange thing to do or say to the guy and vice versa.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: southernX on July 11, 2019, 06:58:43 PM
trench

Quote
They unfortunately think they can have everything they want in the bargain and not give anything, in the end they often end up getting nothing for their obstinacy.

thats a good reflection for you to think over imo  ;)

SX
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 11, 2019, 07:40:43 PM
Trench....

listen to what I'm gonna tell you VERY, VERY carefully... OK???

an HONEST woman with integrity will NEVER lie to you...
NEVER!
not EVER!!!

so...
if a woman lies to you EVEN ONCE, it means she IS NOT a woman of integrity...
and the best thing to do when a woman lies to you
is simply move on....

the woman with integrity will not only NOT lie to you
she also will NOT CHEAT you

she will give her body to you freely and willingly and with GREAT enthusiasm
and she will MAKE SURE you enjoy her beauty!!!!!
as long as what you give her in return "satisfies" her, that she considers it enough in comparison to what she feels she gives to you
is in balance....
preferably where from her perspective she thinks she is getting the better deal, but from your perspective you think you are...

all females in all species
want a male that can build a nest

it's opposite land in Ukraine
the male
needs to get the female to WANT HIM enough to chase after HIM
then the male needs to decide if he wants to let himself get caught by her...

the EASIEST women to hit on in Ukraine
are single women in their late 20s to early 30s
because their "biological clocks" are loudly ticking

if you're a 40ish wealthy American man
tall, handsome, physically fit, light colored hair and eyes
can speak some level of Russian

then these women's ovaries will vibrate whenever you walk by
THEY will come to you....
although some will be nervous and shy
you have to learn how to be disarming and charming
with the BIG SMILE

if you meet a beautiful woman on the street and can keep her in a conversation for 3 minutes
after 3 minutes, you turn to her, lightly take the tip of her hand
and earnestly say, "please have lunch with me"
I would like you to tell me about your life here over lunch, please?

90% will go with you....

the goal of lunch is to get them to come to dinner

the goal of dinner, is to get them to sleep over

 



I have tested the hypothesis with my wife
that IF I gave more
she would give more in return...

turns out to be true

if I buy my wife expensive jewelry
she will take my most twisted perverted fantasy like "the bath hookah slave"
and just act it out for me
like it was freakin for REAL!!!
AND
she can do the dialog in either Russian or English!!!!
sometimes I ACTUALLY prefer Russian
and I'll even do MY lines in Russian as well!!!

it's so, so...so... stimulating!

you want a pic?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 12, 2019, 12:59:48 AM
Not true, if I lived in the US on a comparable salary this would be true. In the UK our schools are funded by the state as is health care, etc. This combined with me owning my own house means it's within my means.
You completely missed what 2t was alluding to.
Now to the point you’re making.
Education and health are taxpayer funded. It doesn’t come for free. To accrue the benefits provided by the state one has to pay into the system. You do everything possible, including living on the poverty line to avoid paying tax.
Yet you still want to avail of the tax payer funded benefits the state provides. That makes you a leech.
You can’t afford a FSUW because it’s not you contributing to healthcare, education etc. It’s the British taxpayer whom you wish to subsidise your miserable existence and fund your importation of a FSUW, with or sans baggage.
The same thought process applies to the women you deal with. You don’t want to pay for anything. The woman is expected to fund herself while you enjoy the benefits she provides in kind.

You’re a loathsome piece of trash, the worst type of entitled Brit taking all you can out of the system but doing all you can to avoid putting in.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on July 12, 2019, 01:43:54 AM

You’re a loathsome piece of trash, the worst type of entitled Brit taking all you can out of the system but doing all you can to avoid putting in. [/i]

Ditto -- and he keeps on keeping on proving it from his own mouth . :cluebat:
How many idiotic posts  he has  made  is beyond belief.  :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 12, 2019, 06:02:56 AM
:wallbash:
Why are you polluting the thread with your irrelevant thoughts ?

1/ You have made it clear you do not seek a FSU  W with a kid...let alone two

2/ You have no experience of a FSU woman living with you ..having trusted you to leave her home

3/ You haven't even been in a relationship with one that lasted one than a visit and a disastrous holiday together

You opinions are worthless..

Moby,

I am in total agreement with you. We might disagree with everything on
politics but Trench is beyond us helping. He has wrecked more threads
than any troll that's been banned on any forum.

This is how I look at posts by Trench. I pretend he didn't ask the questions.
I act as if some one post wonder asked a question so I answer it to help the
newbies and lurkers out there. I had a buddy once that was like Trench in
some ways. He took a logic class at the University and got a D for his efforts.
Since you need to earn a C or better for it to count, he took it again and got
an F.

My friend never had a logical thought in his life, but he did somewhat OK for
himself often getting by with his dogged determination and persistence.

Trench isn't going to figure this out. He might get lucky, but it will be dumb
blind luck that he somehow crossed paths with a one in a million woman
who is enamored with odd ducks and she will grab him by his ear
(or his Willy) and lead him down the right path.

Trench is going to ignore the good advice. He is going to waste his time
and that of countless women. We can't help him, we can't stop him and
we will drive ourselves nuts if we try very hard to do either.

I understand why you follow him around to correct every nutty thing he
says lest some newbie take his silly advice. I've got more faith in the
average newbie that they will see him for the odd duck in the pond that
he is. In any case if some newbie buys into his goofy theories they might
be beyond help themselves.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Faux Pas on July 12, 2019, 06:06:53 AM

Trench is going to ignore the good advice. He is going to waste his time
and that of countless women. We can't help him, we can't stop him and
we will drive ourselves nuts if we try very hard to do either.



 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 12, 2019, 06:24:25 AM
Thing is I think a lot of FSW perhaps get into trying to date WM with
preset fixed ideas that may often involve using a guy as a visa mule.

I am writing this for the newbies so that they can learn from this.

If you keep running into women with bad intentions you are doing
something terribly wrong in your search parameters or the site you
are using for your search or you are misdiagnosing/being paranoid.

I've interacted with literally thousands of FSU women. I've came across
women with bad intentions but quickly kicked them to the curb very early
in the process. Women with bad intentions are an exception, not the rule.
If they are becoming the rule, you need to stop, go back and figure out
what you are doing wrong.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 12, 2019, 10:04:36 AM
Trench,

you can make $25,000 per month from webcam girls in Kyiv, EASY with almost no work

first,
get fiber optic for under $200 per month

http://unique.ua/en/get-fiber/business
5000 UAH/month for gigabit fiber optic

you need a small network equipment rack with a router
and a small number of very high quality 4K webcams/tripods remotes and laptops

average girl makes $6,000 for 30 hr per week nude webcam modeling work = $200 per hour
your take is a third for setting everything up and supplying everything

all major online porn is controlled by a monopoly called MindGeek, a Montreal-headquartered company with a stranglehold on adult content. In addition to owning Pornhub, YouPorn, RedTube, GayTube, PornMD, PornIQ, and Tube8, they also operate several large-scale porn production studios such as Brazzers, Digital Playground, Reality Kings, Twistys, and Wicked Pictures

you basically want to get in touch with them and setup accounts for webcam girls in your “organizatzie”
they pay you and you pay the girls

girls can make $100-$150 per hour easily
and of course YOU can have sex with these girls “on the house”

if you had 3 girls like this working for you full time
you’d be making $6,000 per week
your equipment costs might be $10,000

all you have to do is go out and recruit 3 super hot looking girls who want to make $150 per hour in Kyiv
a “piece of cake"...

when I was your age Trench, this would have been a one day recruiting project at most...

$25,000 per month - tax free
and you're sleeping with three hot super models
and you still have most of the day left over...
to do whatever...
in Kyiv.....



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2019, 10:54:26 AM
Quote
you can make $25,000 per month from webcam girls in Kyiv, EASY with almost no work

That's a good way to end up at best, badly beaten, at worst, dead.

You obviously don't know what's going on in Kyiv (or Ukraine) these days.  Just look at the politicians for a clue.  Last year, some guy in L'viv tried that (a local) - purchased a camera and some webcam equipment.  He was badly beaten, taken to the city outskirts, and was tied to a post with a sign around his neck proclaiming that he was "prostituting your daughters". 

Kyiv is divided into spheres of criminal influence.  If you belong to a particular sphere, you can open a business.  If you don't, you will face negative consequences.  Everyone takes a cut - the police, politicians, secret service, etc. There are car bombings in Kyiv routinely, related to this criminal activity.  For them to kill is as easy as for you to drink a glass of water.  I know this from people who were in jail, who know that underworld like the backs of their hands.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 12, 2019, 11:03:25 AM
Trench,

you can make $25,000 per month from webcam girls in Kyiv, EASY with almost no work

first,
get fiber optic for under $200 per month

http://unique.ua/en/get-fiber/business
5000 UAH/month for gigabit fiber optic

you need a small network equipment rack with a router
and a small number of very high quality 4K webcams/tripods remotes and laptops

average girl makes $6,000 for 30 hr per week nude webcam modeling work = $200 per hour
your take is a third for setting everything up and supplying everything

all major online porn is controlled by a monopoly called MindGeek, a Montreal-headquartered company with a stranglehold on adult content. In addition to owning Pornhub, YouPorn, RedTube, GayTube, PornMD, PornIQ, and Tube8, they also operate several large-scale porn production studios such as Brazzers, Digital Playground, Reality Kings, Twistys, and Wicked Pictures

you basically want to get in touch with them and setup accounts for webcam girls in your “organizatzie”
they pay you and you pay the girls

girls can make $100-$150 per hour easily
and of course YOU can have sex with these girls “on the house”

if you had 3 girls like this working for you full time
you’d be making $6,000 per week
your equipment costs might be $10,000

all you have to do is go out and recruit 3 super hot looking girls who want to make $150 per hour in Kyiv
a “piece of cake"...

when I was your age Trench, this would have been a one day recruiting project at most...

$25,000 per month - tax free
and you're sleeping with three hot super models
and you still have most of the day left over...
to do whatever...
in Kyiv.....

$200 per hour ? You should definitely put your daughters to work in their spare time - this is the most they will make per hour in their lifetime. You can run this little operation from home, how convenient!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 12, 2019, 12:46:09 PM
thank you for the LOVELY idea Pitbully...

but, afraid
I'll be in Moscow in a few weeks at the Four Seasons with my oldest daughter who is giving a presentation for a charity at The Moscow International Business Center (MIBC)
you see Pitbully, our ambitions run FAR higher than a measely $200/hour....

Pitbully, my daughter ALREADY has a blue passport
so she doesn't need to find some old guy's Willy to pleasure so that she can come to America
but thanks for sharing with us us your experience, someone might find it useful like "Nano" for instance...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 12, 2019, 01:57:49 PM
Oh please... make sure your wifey doesn’t miss her routine STD check - what she has to do for her passport is harmful for a woman’s health you know.  :(

And don’t forget my free advice out of the goodness of my heart on how to earn $ to pay for these checkups ( she sure needs them at least monthly) - with the great $200 an hour camera girl jobs ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 12, 2019, 02:33:42 PM
"That's a good way to end up at best, badly beaten, at worst, dead."

not if you're the one who does the ass kicking
I ALWAYS had my own top security contractors

and NOT if you have a krisha....
so of course, I have a krisha when I do bizness in the FSU...
what kind of pridorik does business without a krisha?

that was Bob Fletcher's downfall

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/caught-american-arrested-in-kyiv-on-suspicion-of-f-31310.html

I learned A LOT from Bob
but he didn't learn from me
he felt he was infallible
and so he went to jail

in another universe he listened to what I told him
and in 10 years ended up running half of Ukraine's economy
and I became one of his bishops in Kyiv

sic transit

my late great uncle built and operated a large private still in Philadelphia during prohibition
200 gallons per day of 100 proof corn whiskey

he bought root beer bottling equipment
and in the day time bottled root beer
that was sold in the local markets in southern Philadelphia
and at night whiskey sold also in the same territory

he sold his whiskey for $3,000 per day in the 1920s and early 30s
a week’s profit would buy a nice house
that he’d fix up and rent out



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 12, 2019, 03:05:13 PM
gee Pibully, almost everyone over the age of 12 knows what safe sex is....
but then when you were a young pioneer that wasn't taught to you in school...
just how to be a good sovietska
which you were, oichen hirroshi!

BUT...you're still a starry Sovietska in your thinking PitBully
my thoughts are not so EXTREMELY limited and inflexible like yours

every time you write your little gems here Pitbully
you remind us how backward and ignorant and uncultured part of the working class was in the Soviet Union
the part you came from...

so, do please go and and provide us with even more amusement...
more irony

is the reason you don't like to look at yourself truthfully Pitbully
because you don't like what you see
or is just a con game on others

I'm not sure, or is it both?
Said the old goat that bought himself a «wife» with no school education from the dirtiest shithole  village in Ukraine. Is she still amused by a water closet on a daily basis or did you have to dig a hole in the ground? you made my day 😂
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 12, 2019, 03:37:10 PM
"with no school education from the dirtiest shithole  village in Ukraine. Is she still amused by a water closet on a daily basis or did you have to dig a hole in the ground? you made my day"


did you forget Pitbully
Jesus was born in a barn with no indoor plumbing....
did this factor slow the spread of Christianity?
apparently not...

yes, my wife has a humble background
yours, is probably not AT ALL THAT MUCH BETTER!
at least they had their own land and could grow their own food

unlike yourself Pitbully
my wife is a noble, beautiful, kind, intelligent and WISE woman
you just don't understand
that you don't judge a diamond
by the mud you find it in
who gives a damn
when you're holding a diamond in your fingers
and its beauty takes your breath away
but I doubt your Sovietska experience
ever taught you much
so you haven't the slightest idea of what I'm talking about

do you still remember your Young Pioneer oath
can you repeat it?
do you remember how to put the tie on?

did you praise Lenin?
yes, I think you did, now didn't ya?
yup, I see those lips of yours slowly forming each vowel
and at the end of each sentence
you run your tongue over the top of your teeth...

"Lenin..."
and then your cheeks notably blush...

so tell us what happened when you were in your late teens
and your parents stayed out very late one time
so you were alone late at night in your parents apartment
for the first time in a couple of years

what weird thing did you do
whatever it was, I'm pretty sure it was CRAZY!

in the winter time
did you play on the stairs in the apartment you lived in with the other kids each night before going to bed

pitbull, if I didn't know better
I'd think you were one of those girls who did the
"I'll show you mine if you show me yours"
when you were really young

how old were you when you first put on a bathing suit for the lake or pond
11 or 12?
so you swam naked in front of strangers before then with all your "junk" on full public display

PitBull!!!!


 






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 12, 2019, 04:07:08 PM
"with no school education from the dirtiest shithole  village in Ukraine. Is she still amused by a water closet on a daily basis or did you have to dig a hole in the ground? you made my day"


did you forget Pitbully
Jesus was born in a barn with no indoor plumbing....
did this factor slow the spread of Christianity?
apparently not...

yes, my wife has a humble background
yours, probably not AT ALL MUCH better
at least they had their own land and could grow their own food

unlike yourself Pitbully
my wife is a noble, beautiful, kind, intelligent and WISE woman
you just don't understand
that you don't judge a diamond
by the mud you find it in
who gives a damn
when you're holding a diamond in your fingers
and its beauty takes your breath away
but I doubt your Sovietska experience
ever taught you much
so you haven't the slightest idea of what I'm talking about

do you still remember your Young Pioneer oath
can you repeat it?
do you remember how to put the tie on?

did you praise Lenin?
yes, I think you did, now didn't ya?
yup, I see those lips of yours slowly forming each vowel
and at the end of each sentence
you run your tongue over the top of your teeth...

"Lenin..."
and then your cheeks notably blush...

so tell us what happened when you were in your late teens
and your parents stayed out very late one time
so you were alone late at night in your parents apartment
for the first time in a couple of years

what weird thing did you do
whatever it was, I'm pretty sure it was CRAZY!

in the winter time
did you play on the stairs in the apartment you lived in with the other kids each night before going to bed
.

Too young for all of that Lenin staff - go ask your old village bumpkin abou those juicy details ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 12, 2019, 04:14:24 PM
nawww
I'm not saying you knew each other personally

just repeated the Soviet pioneer pledge every day at school in the Soviet Union
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2019, 04:27:53 PM
"That's a good way to end up at best, badly beaten, at worst, dead."

not if you're the one who does the ass kicking
I ALWAYS had my own top security contractors

and NOT if you have a krisha....
so of course, I have a krisha when I do bizness in the FSU...
what kind of pridorik does business without a krisha?

that was Bob Fletcher's downfall


I learned A LOT from Bob
but he didn't learn from me
he felt he was infallible
and so he went to jail

in another universe he listened to what I told him
and in 10 years ended up running half of Ukraine's economy
and I became one of his bishops in Kyiv

sic transit

my late great uncle built and operated a large private still in Philadelphia during prohibition
200 gallons per day of 100 proof corn whiskey

he bought root beer bottling equipment
and in the day time bottled root beer
that was sold in the local markets in southern Philadelphia
and at night whiskey sold also in the same territory

he sold his whiskey for $3,000 per day in the 1920s and early 30s
a week’s profit would buy a nice house
that he’d fix up and rent out


The times are different now.


I know a Ukrainian who moved to Kyiv immediately after the downfall.  He started a unique, for that time, business.  He had gangsters threatening him constantly.  He hired his own gangsters to deal with them, so he had his own "roof".  However, after Yanukovych fled, even he could no longer guarantee the security of his family.  So, he sold his business.


Part of the reason the war in Donbas started was because the new "elite" went to the region to take over assets, mostly belonging to Akhmetov.  They confiscated a few mines.  That would not have been an issue, but their high handed manner was.


I would never advise someone to go start a business in Ukraine, particularly one that exploits vulnerable women.  Beyond the fact it's exceptionally sleazy, it's also a good way to end up dead.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 12, 2019, 05:09:28 PM
nawww
I'm not saying you knew each other personally

just repeated the Soviet pioneer pledge every day at school in the Soviet Union


Kids didn't repeat the pioneer pledge at school.  Also, pitbull attended school in the post Soviet era. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 12, 2019, 05:18:30 PM
haha

it's the same as it ALWAYS WAS
same games
same rules

I don't think you understand how the system ACTUALLY works
no one is "independent"
you have to give a piece of your business to different krishas

each krisha can also be a door to other business

you enter an organization like this

you have your "sphere of influence"
your special expertise

and yes, sometimes you have to shoot people...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiretsu

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 12, 2019, 05:21:14 PM

Kids didn't repeat the pioneer pledge at school.  Also, pitbull attended school in the post Soviet era. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I wonder if they actually did in remote Ukraine villages - at least this is what krimsters own old “good sovetska” obviously told him ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 12, 2019, 06:52:12 PM
gozpedy!

shto' te gavarisch?

I'm going to apply for permanent residency in Moscow Oblast next year
I have partners and krishas in Russia
no man is an island in Russia
Greed is fatal in Russia!
you have to share

to be successful
you not only have to make money for yourself
but you have to make money for your "pokrovite" and your группа
my family comes from Odessa
this is all second nature to me
I was schooled by uncles and great uncles
even my bubba

my daughter will be working with Pyotr Deripaska at a charity event in Moscow (Oleg Deripska is his father and the charity sponsor), "Peter" is just a year older than her...
he has offered to take her around Moscow next month...

I am going to get "wasted" after signing contracts and go completely freaking bananas
and go on a strip club crawl in Moscow with my business partners
and see how outrageous we can all be...

the weather will be perfect!!!

I was considering posting secretly taken pics of Rasputin's famous back rooms here
when I go this time
but instead I will just post pics of random stuff I see in Moscow as I'm real estate shopping

pitbully,
sorry you didn't like my wife's photo
so instead, here's one of my oldest daughter and her pony "Racer"

paka ludie

 



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 12, 2019, 07:50:50 PM
gozpedy!

shto' te gavarisch?

I'm going to apply for permanent residency in Moscow Oblast next year
I have partners and krishas in Russia
no man is an island in Russia
Greed is fatal in Russia
to be successful
you not only have to make money for yourself
but you have to make money for your "pokrovite"
my family comes from Odessa
this is all second nature to me

my daughter will be working with Pyotr Deripaska at a charity event in Moscow (Oleg Deripska is his father and the charity sponsor), "Peter" is just a year older than her...
he has offered to take her around Moscow...

I am going to get "wasted" after signing contracts and go completely freaking bananas
and go on a strip club crawl in Moscow with my business partners
and see how outrageous we can all be...

the weather will be perfect!!!

I was considering posting pics of Rasputin's famous back rooms here
when I go this time
but instead I will just post pics of random stuff I see in Moscow as I'm real estate shopping

pitbull,
here's what my poor desperate wife, mother of two children, from a poor desolate Ukrainian village looked like on Corfu, Greece
pretty sad right, don't you feel pity for her

paka ludie

Yeah this pic is like 300 years old ( won’t comment on looks out of politeness). Definitely would not want to see a modern version;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 12, 2019, 08:06:28 PM
no, it's not it's been less than 10 yr... since the one and only time we were ever on Corfu
I showed a recent picture of her that was taken this year earlier in another thread...

since you SHOW NOTHING Pitbully, then I don't think in fairness you can say ANYTHING about her at all...
did you check the newspaper if Costco is having a sale on bulk koshko and adult diapers



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 12, 2019, 08:12:07 PM
no, it's not it's been less than 10 yr... since the one and only time we were ever on Corfu
I showed a recent picture of her that was taken this year earlier in this thread...

since you show nothing Pitbully, then I don't think in fairness you can say ANYTHING about her at all...
did you check the newspaper if Costco is having a sale on bulk koshko and adult diapers


Oh thank you for the sale tip you clearly are an expert user of both products, even monitoring sales ;)  but no need. Enjoy the “koshko”  and diapers though ;)

Well I assume this pic is the best you got. :(
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 12, 2019, 08:42:02 PM
Pitbully,

you think no ever said, "no I'm not the one who's fat, you're the one who's fat"????
"originality"...
did you ever hear of this word?

Pitbully, please don't pretend to be polite
it would be like you pretending to be sophisticated, knowledgeable or enlightened

Pitbully, do you like Christmas photos, or do they make you sad and full of disappointment
here are my daughters from a few Christmases ago
I'm guessing that if you hated my wife's picture, then you REALLY will hate my kid's pictures...

ENJOY!!!

yes!!  these are OLD pics
because if I put current photos of my daughters here, it would cause a "riot"
my oldest, the one at the top, is now nearly 6 feet tall, and is a sophomore at Rice University!!!
she's the one giving a presentation in Moscow next month for a charity

youngest is a math prodigy like me!!!
she's just 16 and is going to high school and community college at the same time!
by the time she finishes high school
she'll be half done with her B.S. courses

she's planning on grad school in the UK, because she ultimately wants to live in Hereford, UK
and going from student visa to residency is the way to go
each of my kids have a native born British grandparent
and so are eligible for residency
which would be simple and inexpensive for them to get


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 13, 2019, 06:16:56 AM
Pitbully,

you think no ever said, "no I'm not the one who's fat, you're the one who's fat"????
"originality"...
did you ever hear of this word?

Pitbully, please don't pretend to be polite
it would be like you pretending to be sophisticated, knowledgeable or enlightened

Pitbully, do you like Christmas photos, or do they make you sad and full of disappointment
here are my daughters from a few Christmases ago
I'm guessing that if you hated my wife's picture, then you REALLY will hate my kid's pictures...
oh what the heck, here's a photo of my wife from a few months ago at Lake Tahoe for you pitbully

i'm sure you're REAL HAPPY to see all my pics!!!

Your daughters are spitting  images of their mother
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 13, 2019, 06:54:20 AM
it's half and half!
my kids share my eyes and hair
my youngest is a locally famous math prodigy like me and she was on TV a few years ago

here's me when I was a younger dewd in my late 20s, all 6 foot 4 inches 196 pounds
my grad student look
the good 'ole days!!!! sigh...

and here's me when I was about 3 years old in Hereford, UK
when I was a kid, my sister and I always spent the summers there with relatives...

and here's me with the Spanish inquisition...
Spanish inquisition?
I really didn't expect that!!!!!

DAHHHHHH!







Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on July 13, 2019, 09:13:11 AM
$200 per hour ? You should definitely put your daughters to work in their spare time - this is the most they will make per hour in their lifetime. You can run this little operation from home, how convenient!

When did saying stuff like this ever become acceptable on this forum?

You are smart enough to debate (or insult) Krimster without bringing 
his family into it. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on July 13, 2019, 11:58:12 AM

here's me when I was a younger dewd in my late 20s

Krimster,  Security Alert!  Somebody hacked your photo archives and substituted the photo of a redneck. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 13, 2019, 12:07:29 PM
awww. Pitbully just gave advice based on her own personal experience, I see nothing wrong with that...
however, my oldest daughter is a sophomore biochemistry major at Rice University
and plans on going into medical school after that
so she probably has a different career path than the one PitBully proposed...

OTOH, my youngest daughter is repulsed by anything medical
and at age 16 has already taken all the math and science prerequisites at the local community college that's walking distance from our house!
I have taught her c++ and python programming, she's a TOP NOTCH programmer
she wants to study machine learning at MIT and then do grad school in the UK and then live there...
if she needs seed money or angel investors for her projects, she just needs to pick up the phone
so I doubt she'll be a follower of Pitbully's advice either...

BUT...
my youngest daughter is MY CHEF!!!!!!!
what am I gonna do when she leaves???
eat borscht again?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 13, 2019, 12:22:44 PM
"Krimster,  Security Alert!  Somebody hacked your photo archives and substituted the photo of a redneck.  "

Yes, I know!!!!
at the age of the photo
it was a huge advantage for me in the Jewish community in Alexandria, VA where I grew up
my father was well known by name in the Jewish community
and because of my father people naturally assumed I was Jewish
but I wasn't!!!!
because my mother was a young English "shiksa" and most people didn't know this...

The Jewish girls love a Jewish guy who doesn't look like a Jewish guy
I just forgot to tell them I wasn't Jewish
my bad...

none of them were really eye candy
but they ALL had a huge sexual appetite!!!!
which made up for it!!!!!

good times!
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2019, 02:38:45 PM
When did saying stuff like this ever become acceptable on this forum?

You are smart enough to debate (or insult) Krimster without bringing his family into it.


Her point was, he thinks it's okay to exploit other men's daughters - daughters who live in economically depressed circumstances, and have few options - but not his own.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2019, 02:41:32 PM
The Jewish girls love a Jewish guy who doesn't look like a Jewish guy
I just forgot to tell them I wasn't Jewish
my bad...

You look very much like someone Jewish from Ukraine in the above photo.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 13, 2019, 02:50:53 PM
When did saying stuff like this ever become acceptable on this forum?

You are smart enough to debate (or insult) Krimster without bringing 
his family into it.

Since it is obviously acceptable for this old goat sex tourist to suggest a business of prostititing young girls in Ukraine and raping them on the side as part of the job? So it’s okay to do to someone else’s daughters as a smart business plan? Perfectly okay to suggest he puts his own daughters to work in my book then.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 13, 2019, 03:15:09 PM
"You look very much like someone Jewish from Ukraine."

chivo?  I've met dozens of "pure" non-mixed Ukrainian Jews, especially from Uman
I look nothing at all like any of them, not even close...
next you're gonna say my dog looks Jewish
he's a lab

aww....
you're trolling me

I saw a chedar in Ukraine
you know how many of the kids inside looked like me?

none, because I had a blond English mother


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2019, 03:22:09 PM
No, the shape of your face and your nose are very typical of Ukrainian Jews.

Another archetypal Ukrainian Jewish face -

(http://scontent.fyyc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/577225_396056490416140_1568356061_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQlNVp3u75KiFVaQiitXVBYAN3iCEFrDzlVOiEf1I3vDI1OVkBal7vDSDsMX3atbJHQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc2-1.fna&oh=557aaa741df4c64eed707d1b0fd433ff&oe=5DABE54A)

http://www.facebook.com/Elina-Bystritskaya-396048260416963/ (http://www.facebook.com/Elina-Bystritskaya-396048260416963/)


And this is an archetypal Belarussian Jewish face -


(http://s2.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20150907&t=2&i=1077631282&r=LYNXNPEB860WI&w=1280)

Google was used for this post to find the facebook link and photo above.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 13, 2019, 03:49:20 PM
the Jews I saw in Ukraine came in two types!!!!
short, dark, round head, semitic nose
this was the majority, especially in Uman
I called them "pure-breds"

then there was a second type, what I called a European hybrid type like myself
I'm always surprised to learn that guys who looked like Shattner had two Jewish parents
I always assumed they had one like me

regardless, I'll take the 20 extra IQ points from them
and the 6 inches in height and 30 pounds of muscle from Anglo Saxons
thanks for the "genetic gifts" I'll use them well and be fruitful and multiply






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2019, 03:58:37 PM

the Jews I saw in Ukraine came in two types!!!!
short, dark, round head, semitic nose
this was the majority, especially in Uman
I called them "pure-breds"

then there was a second type, what I called a European hybrid type like myself
I'm always surprised to learn that guys who looked like Shattner had two Jewish parents
I always assumed they had one like me
The Jews in Uman are Hassidic Jews from Israel.  They came after the collapse because a prominent rabbi is buried there.  So of course they are not typical Ashkenazi Soviet Jews.  Uman had a negligible Jewish population after WWII.

This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2019, 04:22:00 PM
Another archetypal Ukrainian Jewish face (man in the middle) -


(http://cdn.promdevelop.ru/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/01_0M5cacD.jpg)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 13, 2019, 04:34:43 PM
so which shtetl was your family from?

why'd they pick Canada, did they arrive after 1922
I assumed most Ukrainian immigrants to Canada were agricultural people attracted by free saskwatch land or someplace like that sounds like that
and urban people went to America before 1922
were they cucumber farmers from Nezhin?

my great grandfather was a Lubavitch rebbe in Philadelphia
when I was young, I met Mendel Schneerson at a chabad house in Brooklyn
after I was introduced, he just asked me question after question about my family
not surprisingly, I found out my great grandmother was HIS SISTER from Nezhin Ukraine!!!!
we both had the identical blue eyes, and people pointed it out to us, how sweet...
he knew who my father was and we talked for over an hour
he told me to practice Russian, this was in 1991, so I scoffed at the idea at first...

but the more I thought about it...

BO, are you the girl on the left?
and is that your husband?
and is this when you met?

BO, if that's you
DAMN girl, you are more Jarka than Chernovil!!!
oichen hiroshie glasskie your husband has, if that's you!!!
but I don't know what you see in him, he looks like one of those "creative types" wanna be western "hipster" popular in the late 70s in the Soviet Union
remember bell bottom jeans in the Soviet Union!!!
he looks like someone who would've worn them because it was western and modern!!!

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 13, 2019, 04:40:40 PM
Western Ukrainians didn't live in shtetls.

My great great grandfather was not Jewish.  His wife was.  They arrived before the turn of the century, and he was not just a farmer. 

Most Ukrainians from Western Ukraine did come to Canada for land.  They were given 160 acres by the government, with a timeline on when they had to clear that land and farm it, or lose it.  That's what drove immigration here.  Since most of Western Ukraine's land was owned by Polish landlords who ensured the locals could never own it, it was a win for them.  People came from other countries as well - Poland, Germany, Iceland. 

Most emigration from the Russian Empire was of Jews, not ethnic Ukrainians or Russians.  Jews in the Russian Empire tended to be traders.  That's why they went to cities.  The Germans who emigrated from the Russian Empire did settle in farming communities.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 13, 2019, 05:05:43 PM
yeah, when I was little my bubba used to tell me wonderful stories of what it was like living in Nezhin, Chernigov gubernaya
in the late 19th/early 20th century Czarist period!!!

the whole area is connected by a vast network of rivers
there once were Jewish traders who lived on big house boats
who spent their whole lives endlessly cruising the rivers
going to town after town, selling their merchandise
and repeat the loop season after season
year after year

in the shtetl my bubba lived called Nezhin, there was an old woman
who was a kind of "faith healer"
and also a kind of a witch
kinda difficult to define in English, but means some combination of these two words

one day when my grandmother was 11 years old
she was with a group of other children
and they came upon the witch's house at the end of a long road
one of the children, a boy, picked up some stones and threw it at the witches door
when she opened the door, all the children ran, except for my grandmother

the witch invited my grandmother into her home
and took her as her apprentice

and then my bubba taught me BO
ponimayu?
I'd be REALLY oichen vpechatlennyy if you did

bubba also taught papa and me nord Yiddish
which REALLY is surprisingly Middle High German from around circa 1100 AD with some French and Hebrew words thrown in!
when my papa was injured in The Great Patriotic War he was able to get transferred to a G2 job interrogating German POWs because he spoke nord Yiddish, but said he spoke German to the commander who didn't know the difference!!
and I was able to learn German quickly enough to work as an engineering manager with German employees in Nuremberg

Bavaria lets employees drink beer at lunch!!!
what a deal!!!

and its Pilsner and not some damned ALE that they call beer like in the UK!!!

I used to work with so many "Brits" when I was working in Germany
I still can't believe the UK bailed on the EU
WTF?
and the USA elected Donald Trump
WTF?


the devil loves chaos
and he loves to watch things break
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 14, 2019, 10:09:43 AM
Peetbully, it’s obvious from the “so-called ideas” expressed in your writing that you’re not the sharpest tool in the shed, you’re too tupoy...

sex between mutually consenting adults, is NOT called rape, it’s called freedom...
I never have been an advocate of rape, except for “play” purposes....

I AM NOT advocating “prostituting girls”, the women are the ones who make the decision to do this job
it’s a personal choice the women make based upon exercising their own free will
are you against women making their own decisions if you disagree with their choice?
well...
too bad, because I doubt they care very much about your starooshka opinions!!!

PeetBully
YOU KNOW what it’s like for a working class woman in the FSU, right?
so kahnyeshna some beautiful women will prefer making $150/hour instead of $500/month

besides on-line sex work...
did YOU know that some women in the FSU will even use their bodies to lure a foreigner (usually much older) into giving them a blue passport?
it's true!!!  maybe you even know someone!

as long as everyone is honest about everything, I have no issues with ANY of this...
I don’t see what’s “immoral” about any of it

“reactionary thinking” with a petty bourgeoise mentality is your deal and not mine sweety...
you think this makes you morally superior
instead it just makes you tupoy and glupyy

poymi menya PeetBull?
It's not ME that calls you this...
it's your own words that do...

now run along PeetBully , and go bark at a starry machina or something useful like that






Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 14, 2019, 11:49:53 AM
Peetbully, it’s obvious from the “so-called ideas” expressed in your writing that you’re not the sharpest tool in the shed, you’re too tupoy...

sex between mutually consenting adults, is NOT called rape, it’s called freedom...
I never have been an advocate of rape, except for “play” purposes....

I AM NOT advocating “prostituting girls”, the women are the ones who make the decision to do this job
it’s a personal choice the women make based upon exercising their own free will
are you against women making their own decisions if you disagree with their choice?
well...
too bad, because I doubt they care very much about your starooshka opinions!!!

PeetBully
YOU KNOW what it’s like for a working class woman in the FSU, right?
so kahnyeshna some beautiful women will prefer making $150/hour instead of $500/month

besides on-line sex work...
did YOU know that some women in the FSU will even use their bodies to lure a foreigner (usually much older) into giving them a blue passport?
it's true!!!  maybe you even know someone!

as long as everyone is honest about everything, I have no issues with ANY of this...
I don’t see what’s “immoral” about any of it

“reactionary thinking” with a petty bourgeoise mentality is your deal and not mine sweety...
you think this makes you morally superior
instead it just makes you tupoy and glupyy

poymi menya PeetBull?
It's not ME that calls you this...
it's your own words that do...

now run along PeetBully , and go bark at a starry machina or something useful like that

You are a disgusting old goat sex tourist and I hope your daughters experience this «$150/hour career” in full one day. after all with a daddy like you it is the most they could ever make  :( this is not immoral in your book - so put your 17 year old to work. Better yet - try to “recruit” a couple of her hot classmates. I bet their daddies will shoot off your old willy in a matter of minutes;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 14, 2019, 12:00:24 PM
really?
best you can come up with is to call me a "starry kazul?"
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!
my wife calls me that all the time!!!
but she likes how I keep the yard free from tall weeds
so it's all good in Krimster's hood

in India I bought my wife an insanely expensive beautiful gown make of goat whiskers!!!!
for real!  goat whiskers!!!!  incredible texture this textile!!!!
she thinks it's silk!!!
shhhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: SteveInBoston on July 14, 2019, 12:39:54 PM
You know, I like how you guys are derailing a post dedicated for off-topic derailments by Trench.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Patagonie on July 14, 2019, 12:56:22 PM
You know, I like how you guys are derailing a post dedicated for off-topic derailments by Trench.
:ROFL:
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 14, 2019, 01:47:29 PM
"I bet their daddies will shoot off your old willy in a matter of minutes;

minutes?
well I realize that when hunters encounter larger than normal sized animals that they will shoot them multiple times and that requires an extra amount of time
but minutes?
in all modesty, I thank you for the complement, but I think you're "over imagining" my size
it's probably been awhile since the last time you saw one, so I understand...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 14, 2019, 05:46:05 PM
I AM NOT advocating “prostituting girls”, the women are the ones who make the decision to do this job it’s a personal choice the women make based upon exercising their own free will are you against women making their own decisions if you disagree with their choice?
No it isn't.

Isn't it funny how 99% of women who choose to work in prostitution, as webcam girls, as strippers, etc., don't come from families of wealth?

A nine country study determined that 75% of prostitutes had been homeless, 63% had been sexually abused as children, and 89% wanted to leave prostitution.  Although technically, it's "free will", how "free" is it when you're dealing with women in poverty, often exploited, traded like goods, threatened with death.  It's isn't consent when one party is living in poverty in a broken society, and the other party uses money as a lure.  Yeah, that's "free will", for sure. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 14, 2019, 06:35:06 PM
"Isn't it funny how 99% of women who choose to work in prostitution, as webcam girls, as strippers, etc., don't come from families of wealth? "

"Isn't it funny how 99% of women who choose to work in menial low paying stressful jobs in the FSU don't come from families of wealth? "

what's the difference...

Although technically, it's "free will"
yup, because it is....




 how "free" is it when you're dealing with women in poverty,

well how about pay them $150/hour in Ukraine!!!!
then they're NOT poor, how does that sound?



"often exploited, traded like goods, threatened with death. "




NONE of which is actually true...
I'm gonna take a wild guess that you've never actually met a webcam girl and listened to what SHE has to say about her avocation...

So BO, please allow me to introduce you to Bella

http://www.thedailybeast.com/bella-french-ceo-of-manyvids-the-former-cam-girl-shaking-up-the-porn-world?ref=home&via=twitter_page

BO, your kids were totally right about you...

umm hmmm
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 14, 2019, 08:53:55 PM
"Isn't it funny how 99% of women who choose to work in prostitution, as webcam girls, as strippers, etc., don't come from families of wealth? "

"Isn't it funny how 99% of women who choose to work in menial low paying stressful jobs in the FSU don't come from families of wealth? "

what's the difference...

Although technically, it's "free will"
yup, because it is....




 how "free" is it when you're dealing with women in poverty,

well how about pay them $150/hour in Ukraine!!!!
then they're NOT poor, how does that sound?



"often exploited, traded like goods, threatened with death. "




NONE of which is actually true...
I'm gonna take a wild guess that you've never actually met a webcam girl and listened to what SHE has to say about her avocation...

So BO, please allow me to introduce you to Bella

http://www.thedailybeast.com/bella-french-ceo-of-manyvids-the-former-cam-girl-shaking-up-the-porn-world?ref=home&via=twitter_page

BO, your kids were totally right about you...

umm hmmm

So $150-200 an hour is huge in the US as well!  Very top of the top professionals make as much and after years of training and practice. Amazing “pocket money « job for a teenager ! Again if it is a totally cool and okay job - why don’t u put your daughters  to work out of your own house and try to recruit their friends?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 14, 2019, 09:19:43 PM
Peetbully

thank you again for expressing your concern regarding my children's future
and thank you once more for your thoughtfulness in offering your undoubtedly hard earned career advice
but as I explained to you the previous times you offered this identical advice
my daughters have already made their education and career choices...
and until they are financially independent
they both get all the money they ever need from their daddy

i am curious
hypothetically, if you had children
I mean as unlikely as that sounds
but if you did, what career advice would you have given your own children?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on July 17, 2019, 04:53:42 PM
NONE of which is actually true...
I'm gonna take a wild guess that you've never actually met a webcam girl and listened to what SHE has to say about her avocation...

So BO, please allow me to introduce you to Bella

http://www.thedailybeast.com/bella-french-ceo-of-manyvids-the-former-cam-girl-shaking-up-the-porn-world?ref=home&via=twitter_page (http://www.thedailybeast.com/bella-french-ceo-of-manyvids-the-former-cam-girl-shaking-up-the-porn-world?ref=home&via=twitter_page)

BO, your kids were totally right about you...

umm hmmm


Actually, it is true in Ukraine, where the businesses are run by gangs. 


As for working in a store, it doesn't matter if the exploitation is poor wages or a young woman's body. 


If thinking that profiting off young women in poverty is wrong, then I'm proud to be reactionary.


Finally, pitbull does have children, as anyone familiar with her posts knows.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 17, 2019, 05:35:57 PM
“If thinking that profiting off young women in poverty is wrong, then I'm proud to be reactionary.”   

that’s a LOVELY song BO, and you do sing it quite well...
but it’s not REALLY about exploiting the poor, is it?
because then wouldn't EVERYONE who provides employment to a poor Ukrainian, be “profiting off them"

backbreaking manual labor for kopeckey is OK, but nudity that provides a week's pay in one hour is exploitation????????
looks like you’re trying to dress up prudery as class struggle/gender equality
but the clothes just don’t fit very well

I know an American who is running a webcam business in Odessa at this very moment
with NO KRISHA

in terms of volume, the largest producers of online porn in the WORLD are independents in Russia and Ukraine
consisting of 2-4 bored young people hoping to make a quick buck
and NOT some organizatsiya

no krisha is needed so long as you keep a low profile
which you have to do anyway
literally ANYONE with a laptop and a webcam or digital camera can FREELY become one of the hundreds of independent porn producers in Ukraine/Russia
and it's pretty "extortion proof" since you're paid offshore
and you can run the business out of a rented apartment
and the equipment you need isn't anything much more than complicated than the IT for a high end computer rig shown below (photo from Odessa hmmmm.....)

well IF Pitbull has children, I wonder why she repeatedly talks about my children but NEVER her own
that would seem kinda strange to me
did you ever meet a parent who repeatedly talked about a stranger’s children without EVER mentioning their own
I NEVER did...


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 17, 2019, 10:23:16 PM
“If thinking that profiting off young women in poverty is wrong, then I'm proud to be reactionary.”   

that’s a LOVELY song BO, and you do sing it quite well...
but it’s not REALLY about exploiting the poor, is it?
because then wouldn't EVERYONE who provides employment to a poor Ukrainian, be “profiting off them"

backbreaking manual labor for kopeckey is OK, but nudity that provides a week's pay in one hour is exploitation????????
looks like you’re trying to dress up prudery as class struggle/gender equality
but the clothes just don’t fit very well

I know an American who is running a webcam business in Odessa at this very moment
with NO KRISHA

in terms of volume, the largest producers of online porn in the WORLD are independents in Russia and Ukraine
consisting of 2-4 bored young people hoping to make a quick buck
and NOT some organizatsiya

no krisha is needed so long as you keep a low profile
which you have to do anyway
literally ANYONE with a laptop and a webcam or digital camera can FREELY become one of the hundreds of independent porn producers in Ukraine/Russia
and it's pretty "extortion proof" since you're paid offshore
and you can run the business out of a rented apartment
and the equipment you need isn't anything much more than complicated than the IT for a high end computer rig shown below (photo from Odessa hmmmm.....)

well IF Pitbull has children, I wonder why she repeatedly talks about my children but NEVER her own
that would seem kinda strange to me
did you ever meet a parent who repeatedly talked about a stranger’s children without EVER mentioning their own
I NEVER did...

All you do is repeatedly post the same photos of a woman and kids that are from 10-15 years ago. I doubt you really have a family and it is just your imagination like the 99% of your wannabe sex tourist phantasies.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 18, 2019, 06:51:23 AM
PitBully, you should try this thing called "thinking" sometime
I highly recommend it
and I am sure you would find it a novel experience
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: pitbull on July 18, 2019, 10:20:11 AM
PitBully, you should try this thing called "thinking" sometime
I highly recommend it
and I am sure you would find it a novel experience
Stop lying and making up stupid stories
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on July 18, 2019, 10:46:04 AM
you're "projecting" again PitBully...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 31, 2019, 04:59:06 PM

I've just found all aspects in life were better when working out.  I've had depressions problems ever since my years in college.  I didn't realize it wasn't common until my 30's.   I just though everyone liked to turn off all the lights and stay in bed for a week.  lol

I tried anti-depressants but found they just made me feel like a zombie. 

I got into lifting weights and the workouts were enough to help me avoid falling into an depressive episodes.   High stress causes those episodes to happen.  I noticed I would crave chocolate before an episode.  Well, pushing the weights helped release those endorphins (which I believe is why my body was craving chocolate) and released the stress before it became a real issue.  That allowed me to avoid the zombie pills and I don't remember the last time I had a depression episode.

Not only did I start looking better but overall happiness increased massively.  I try to hit the weights 3 to 4 times a week.  Jump roping for some cardio after my workouts.  Then my dog graciously allows me to walk and play with him afterwards.  haha

If you're looking into getting some size then look at higher rep ranges.  Anywhere from 8 to 15 range.  You don't need to go heavy either.  Go slow and watch how difficult even the lower weights become.  For example, try to slowly lower weights when doing bench presses.  Count to 3 on the way down and then push up fast.  Slowly lower them on a 3 count and do it again.  Burns the heck out of your muscles.

For more strength then go for higher weights and lower reps.  I started out this way but didn't have my form right and ended up hurting shoulders and knees. 

I dropped the weight and started doing more reps like I suggested earlier and no more screw ups. 

I finally got my mom doing some weight exercises to help her middle back.

That's Great LiveFromUkraine :) Good to hear it worked out for you so well! I will give what you suggest a go, at the moment I do the higher heavier weight but not many of them about 4-6 a couple of times before changing to lifting the weights in another technique. I've been looking to progress on a bit so what you suggest should fit in fine with my routine :)

Have you found if it has helped with interest from the ladies at all?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: fathertime on July 31, 2019, 05:14:30 PM

I've just found all aspects in life were better when working out. 
I'm more of a Trump'ist in this regard.  he thinks working out is a waste of finite energy.   Due to my own experience, I agree with him.  When I worked out, I was very strong and muscular, now that I've stopped for many, many years, I feel much much better.  I am full of energy, I do physical work quite a bit and outlast pretty much everybody in my age class.   I recall working out made me tired, and would impact my ability to work.     The downside is I don't look very good, and do not possess the strength I once did.   Apparently not many agree with this but that is my experience. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on July 31, 2019, 05:16:59 PM
That's Great LiveFromUkraine :) Good to hear it worked out for you so well! I will give what you suggest a go, at the moment I do the higher heavier weight but not many of them about 4-6 a couple of times before changing to lifting the weights in another technique. I've been looking to progress on a bit so what you suggest should fit in fine with my routine :)

Have you found if it has helped with interest from the ladies at all?


Yeah, I think it has helped.  It could also be having more confidence or a mixture of both. 

I put on more muscle with the higher rep ranges.  Not much on the lower but did get stronger.  I'm not worried about bench pressing 300 pounds.  I just want to be healthy.

It takes a lot of muscle to look big in clothing.  I have a slim build so for me to look "big" would require steroids which isn't something I am interest in.  That is why the fit of your clothes is important.  Broad shoulders and a slim waste will always be attractive. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on July 31, 2019, 05:19:43 PM
I'm more of a Trump'ist in this regard.  he thinks working out is a waste of finite energy.   Due to my own experience, I agree with him.  When I worked out, I was very strong and muscular, now that I've stopped for many, many years, I feel much much better.  I am full of energy, I do physical work quite a bit and outlast pretty much everybody in my age class.   I recall working out made me tired, and would impact my ability to work.     The downside is I don't look very good, and do not possess the strength I once did.   Apparently not many agree with this but that is my experience. 

Fathertime!


Yeah, that is definitely a contrarian point of view.  You know your body better than anyone so do what works.  Do you do a lot of physical labor for work? 

I'm on the computer all the time so need to get in the weight sessions.

I noticed my mom was starting to get that old person bend where they don't stand up straight.  I got her to do one exercise a couple times of week and it's helped her back a lot.  She is able to keep busy doing other things like yard work without her back hurting as much. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 31, 2019, 05:33:01 PM

Yeah, I think it has helped.  It could also be having more confidence or a mixture of both. 

I put on more muscle with the higher rep ranges.  Not much on the lower but did get stronger.  I'm not worried about bench pressing 300 pounds.  I just want to be healthy.

It takes a lot of muscle to look big in clothing.  I have a slim build so for me to look "big" would require steroids which isn't something I am interest in.  That is why the fit of your clothes is important.  Broad shoulders and a slim waste will always be attractive.

Thanks LiveFromUkraine, appreciate the help :) I'll certainly try it out, anything that helps is a plus.

I'm also in it not to go the whole hog but for my own personal goals - to have a body to look good for the girls. I've seen guys that have bulked up a lot to get great big muscles, then give up and it all goes to flab. In Wales a lot of rugby players are like that, they get to retiring from the game and they go to a big mass of flab, not a pretty sight to see.

Anyway, many thanks, if it works for me I'll let you know.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 31, 2019, 05:34:38 PM

Yeah, that is definitely a contrarian point of view.  You know your body better than anyone so do what works.  Do you do a lot of physical labor for work? 

I'm on the computer all the time so need to get in the weight sessions.

I noticed my mom was starting to get that old person bend where they don't stand up straight.  I got her to do one exercise a couple times of week and it's helped her back a lot.  She is able to keep busy doing other things like yard work without her back hurting as much.

Is that the exercise Arnie recommends where you stand with you're back to the wall and straighten up for a few minutes each day?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on July 31, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Is that the exercise Arnie recommends where you stand with you're back to the wall and straighten up for a few minutes each day?


You talking about the exercise I got my mom doing?  What she is doing is like a rack pull that focuses on the small of your back.  She needs to strengthen that area up. 


Deadlifts are also great way to hit that range of muscles.  I'm lucky to get her to do the rack pulls.  No way would I get her on deadlifts.  haha
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 31, 2019, 05:49:03 PM

You talking about the exercise I got my mom doing?  What she is doing is like a rack pull that focuses on the small of your back.  She needs to strengthen that area up. 


Deadlifts are also great way to hit that range of muscles.  I'm lucky to get her to do the rack pulls.  No way would I get her on deadlifts.  haha

Ah, sounds like a different exercise, all helps I guess :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: jone on July 31, 2019, 05:58:07 PM

You talking about the exercise I got my mom doing?  What she is doing is like a rack pull that focuses on the small of your back.  She needs to strengthen that area up. 


Deadlifts are also great way to hit that range of muscles.  I'm lucky to get her to do the rack pulls.  No way would I get her on deadlifts.  haha

And she does her own yard work and yours?  Wow.  Those must be some exercises.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on July 31, 2019, 06:11:05 PM
And she does her own yard work and yours?  Wow.  Those must be some exercises.


I got her painting the house as well.  Just trying to keep her healthy and all.  ;)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on July 31, 2019, 06:22:38 PM
Ah, sounds like a different exercise, all helps I guess :)


Sort of like this at the 1:15 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUCJItSytUY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUCJItSytUY)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 31, 2019, 06:30:40 PM

Sort of like this at the 1:15 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUCJItSytUY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUCJItSytUY)

Oh, I see, good to see, handy to know it works so well for her, good work :)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: fathertime on July 31, 2019, 09:13:28 PM

Yeah, that is definitely a contrarian point of view.  You know your body better than anyone so do what works.  Do you do a lot of physical labor for work? 
Yes I do move around a lot during the day and my entire body gets plenty of movement.   
If work for me were around a desk all day, I might be doing what you are doing in terms of regimented exercise.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 01, 2019, 05:14:45 AM
I think this thread should be renamed ‘Trench’s Folly’.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 01, 2019, 07:10:41 AM
I'm more of a Trump'ist in this regard.  he thinks working out is a waste of finite energy.   Due to my own experience, I agree with him.  When I worked out, I was very strong and muscular, now that I've stopped for many, many years, I feel much much better.  I am full of energy, I do physical work quite a bit and outlast pretty much everybody in my age class.   I recall working out made me tired, and would impact my ability to work.     The downside is I don't look very good, and do not possess the strength I once did.   Apparently not many agree with this but that is my experience. 

Fathertime!

I think if you work physical demanding tasks in your work then no need. Since going to gym though I have realised how in the past I was quite one sided in favouring knowledge, academia if you like and often paid too little time to the gym. Time over again I would decide to commit at least an hour each week to the gym from early teens I think. Too much in this country do we get spoon fed the merits of academic study and neglect the benefits of other areas of life such as the physical or the social.

I think the gym just like the academic or social spheres has a ladder of learning. If you get up that ladder a bit benefits can be gained in real life. So it's a real area that can be explored and become skilled at with different payoff's to the academic world.

I think Trump is a good example of what BillyB talks about, a 10 on the money side so he bed not look to score highly on the physical looks side.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2019, 06:00:57 PM
Think you're probably right GenMish, I've come across women who have the idea that the guy supports them financially, totally. It's what they joined the International Dating site for and is what they are after. Other reasons can be found for other women, some want out of the country they are living. A few may have other reasons to these but I think most women fall under those two headings, with being provided for, retirement plan at the top.

I presume it is not necessarily a bad idea to get whatever women up then find a girl who seems genuinely well into you and vice versa even if her original intention may not be the most noble.

While I see that finances come top it's probably not a bad thing to spend a limited amount of time down the gym to try and get a girl who doesn't feel she has to fake being into the guy or turned on just to get what she wants.


Proof yet again on why you will not succeed in this endeavour.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 01, 2019, 10:50:20 PM

Proof yet again on why you will not succeed in this endeavour.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

And why is that?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 01, 2019, 11:09:01 PM
And why is that?

HOW MANY times have you asked Boethius that, now ..  ?!

Inattentive, as ever
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 01, 2019, 11:26:55 PM
HOW MANY times have you asked Boethius that, now ..  ?!

Inattentive, as ever

I mean can she please highlight what part of what I said she had issue with???
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 01, 2019, 11:40:55 PM
Your ability to understand FSU W ...any women might be a good starting point...)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 03, 2019, 09:51:17 AM
And why is that?


For the umpteenth time, because for you, every woman is playing an angle.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Grumpy on August 03, 2019, 11:13:05 AM
Trench might want to think about this:
(substitute fsuw for Asian)

http://youtu.be/2YtvxTI6j8g
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: tfcrew on August 03, 2019, 06:17:19 PM
Quote
Trench might want to think about this:
(substitute fsuw for Asian)
You have to go to the youtube link to see the replies...but they are interesting.
Anyway, it's a crapshoot [I've written that many times thru the years]
Regarding Chinese women in particular...Unless you really want to go to China?..and that is a real endeavor.
Also, due to modern upbringing, the Chinese would be way too secular for my interest. With older ladies there may be exceptions.
I certainly object to the expression "Shopping for a wife" so that guy in the video ---If he got burned by an Oriental gal...it was most likely  his own fault.
 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Grumpy on August 03, 2019, 08:24:25 PM
Paul Elam has been around a long time. The content will mostly apply to any foreign woman. (The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence syndrome.) Pay extra attention from about 5:40 on. I last listened to some of Paul's stuff about 12 years ago, but I stumbled on this link on another site, and thought I should re-post it here. Hopefully someone will think about it and maybe learn something.

Grumpy
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 08, 2019, 01:19:27 AM
Accomodation is also more expensive in Minsk than Kiev I guess as they have been catering for tourists for less time.

Have you BEEN to Minsk, Trench ?

It's pretty clear you haven't ..nor can you have read Mendy's recent info on Belarus ..   Accommodation is NOT expensive

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2019, 07:52:06 AM
Have you BEEN to Minsk, Trench ?

It's pretty clear you haven't ..nor can you have read Mendy's recent info on Belarus ..   Accommodation is NOT expensive

You have a short memory Mobers, I went in September last year for a weekend. It depends what you mean by expensive, the prices will be more comaparative to a lot of European cities, a few hundred pounds for a reasonable place. Ukraine though the prices can be very cheap for a reasonable place and on that score Minsk cannot equal.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 09, 2019, 04:40:57 AM
You have a short memory Mobers, I went in September last year for a weekend. It depends what you mean by expensive, the prices will be more comaparative to a lot of European cities, a few hundred pounds for a reasonable place. Ukraine though the prices can be very cheap for a reasonable place and on that score Minsk cannot equal.

Trench, this trip of yours taught you NOTHING...

I could find studio apartments from £20

Trench lies http://imgur.com/a/6EFoNe6 (http://imgur.com/a/6EFoNe6)

Hotels of a more than reasonable quality for £22 a night

I am beginning to wonder if you actually go to these places... given your declared income and pricing info ((

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 10, 2019, 04:43:30 AM
Trench, this trip of yours taught you NOTHING...

I could find studio apartments from £20

Trench lies http://imgur.com/a/6EFoNe6 (http://imgur.com/a/6EFoNe6)

Hotels of a more than reasonable quality for £22 a night

I am beginning to wonder if you actually go to these places... given your declared income and pricing info ((

Mine was in the city centre, these are probably out a bit. Understand as a guy knew to the city I didn't wish to be stuck out in concrete block suburbs where I wouldn't know where the hell I am in terms of the context of the place.

Admittedly I went through the main providers, Booking.com and it tends to be middle men involved. I'm sure a fluent Russian speaking guy as yourself Mobe could find stuff better/easier than the rest of us not so fluent guys.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on August 10, 2019, 09:29:53 AM
Trench,


I've stayed at the Minsk Marriott multiple times. I paid on average $80/night. Trench, you are too poor for this endeavor. If you think the cost of hotels in Belarus is comparable other cities in Europe, you are crazy. If you can't afford a great hotel at $80/night you are doomed.  People keep telling you, you need to make more than £20K  per year.


But please continue  :popcorn:


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 10, 2019, 02:08:42 PM
Trench,


I've stayed at the Minsk Marriott multiple times. I paid on average $80/night. Trench, you are too poor for this endeavor. If you think the cost of hotels in Belarus is comparable other cities in Europe, you are crazy. If you can't afford a great hotel at $80/night you are doomed.  People keep telling you, you need to make more than £20K  per year.


But please continue  :popcorn:


HDL

You're right in terms of an attractive girl HDL as mention in other threads most attractive FSW on the hunt for men are Materialist. I could however go for an ugly girl or maybe even get an average looking one. Other option is to make out I'm wealthy and to bring up the women then when I see them go for one who is really into me, then even if she is Materialistic she may stick with me and set her sights for a bit less on the material front.

Wealth, well I'm not quite there yet but things are gradually improving I think. I don't think I'll ever be real wealthy in a big way but I think I could reasonably obtain comfortably off in a short time period. A girl would have to be content with that, which is not bad all in all.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 11, 2019, 01:38:17 AM
Mine was in the city centre, these are probably out a bit. Understand as a guy knew to the city I didn't wish to be stuck out in concrete block suburbs where I wouldn't know where the hell I am in terms of the context of the place.

Admittedly I went through the main providers, Booking.com and it tends to be middle men involved. I'm sure a fluent Russian speaking guy as yourself Mobe could find stuff better/easier than the rest of us not so fluent guys.

Trench, I found my examples on a .co.uk site - in ENGLISH .. stop making excuses ...

Like  much of what you type - lack of preparation and research shine through ..
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 11, 2019, 11:28:21 AM
Quote
You're right in terms of an attractive girl HDL as mention in other threads most attractive FSW on the hunt for men are Materialist

Stupidist post on the forum.  And that is saying a lot.

This post was composed without the aid of google
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on August 11, 2019, 11:53:43 AM
You're right in terms of an attractive girl HDL as mention in other threads most attractive FSW on the hunt for men are Materialist. I could however go for an ugly girl or maybe even get an average looking one. Other option is to make out I'm wealthy and to bring up the women then when I see them go for one who is really into me, then even if she is Materialistic she may stick with me and set her sights for a bit less on the material front.

Wealth, well I'm not quite there yet but things are gradually improving I think. I don't think I'll ever be real wealthy in a big way but I think I could reasonably obtain comfortably off in a short time period. A girl would have to be content with that, which is not bad all in all.


I think HDL was talking more about all the trips, time away from work, and expenses associated with this journey.   The more time you spend there the less time at work making money.   That is your opportunity costs. 
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 11, 2019, 12:02:51 PM
The more time you spend there the less time at work making money.   

That is a bit of a generalisation ..

Some of us dervive repeat income  from earlier expoits ..where we are located is irrelevant
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on August 11, 2019, 02:25:04 PM

I think HDL was talking more about all the trips, time away from work, and expenses associated with this journey.   The more time you spend there the less time at work making money.   That is your opportunity costs.


You are correct LFU, I was talking about the total costs (flights, hotels/apartments/dates). Trench should stick to local women. He has zero chance continuing on this path. You would think after his years of "experience", he would realize this. But then again, clueless people are so clueless, they don't understand how clueless they are...


HDL
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on August 27, 2019, 02:37:08 AM
Reluctant as i am to give any air to the idiot TC -- I have to comment and ask how he is doing.
Trenchcoat enthusiastically  responded to some inane "advice" from Krimster and a few others some time ago-- so I want to know how that was for him !   LoL ! ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: msmob on August 27, 2019, 02:42:50 AM
Clearly, your 'reluctance' was not that great...shame..



Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: JayH on September 09, 2019, 11:32:39 PM
Trench prefers to start threads about lack of women and language difficulties  instead of facing one of his major handicaps !
That said --there is never enough money! :)  The system shock for long term single guys transition to having a partner is not nothing!

A new US study has revealed the reason behind American men’s potential lack of a partner – their wallet.



Fewer Americans Getting Married Because Men Don’t Earn Enough

Research is now suggesting that the reason behind the decline in marriage rates across the US in recent years could have something to do with male spouses no longer being “economically attractive.”


http://www.unilad.co.uk/news/fewer-americans-getting-married-because-men-dont-earn-enough-claims-outrageous-study/
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on September 10, 2019, 09:23:19 AM
http://www.unilad.co.uk/news/fewer-americans-getting-married-because-men-dont-earn-enough-claims-outrageous-study/

Take the article with a large grain of salt.

1. Look at the author's tweeter page. http://twitter.com/jordandplatt (Jordan David Platt is also an apparently Paris Hilton stalker). ~ Jordan studied Multimedia Journalism at London South Bank University, going on to write for The Sun’s digital channels, producing content for MTV UK, and now UNILAD. Paris Hilton follows him on Twitter, solely to shut him up after writing multiple restraining order-worthy love letters and publishing them in front of millions. ~

2. The referenced study was conducted mainly during the post-financial collapse period.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: krimster2 on September 10, 2019, 10:55:54 AM
marriage is fundamentally an economic transaction...
this is why my oldest daughter is going to marry into one the wealthiest oligarch families in Russia
in a few more years I will probably have to help my son in law when he has to fight other oligarchs after Putin dies....

Putin is hoping that before next presidential election Duma will vote on a constitutional amendment making him Czar for life...
the only way to get enough votes is to grab most of the rest of Ukraine and offer pieces of it as spoils to Duma supporters of this amendment...
so Putin has to deliver Ukraine before 2024....

the Russian economy is planning on a transition to rubles and will eliminate all foreign borrowing
in 2 more years, Russia will be the largest producer of bitcoin in the world thanks to low cost hydroelectric in far east

bitcoin will be seen as the ultimate safe haven for wealth in Russia
all oligarchs will own huge bitcoin mining operations in old freezer plants, etc. in Irkutsk, probably close to the river
and every oligarch clan will have their own foreign bitcoin mining expert...
soon it'll be freaking crazy

in Irkutsk I met this crazy Russian woman who lived "in nature" in a hut she built herself in the woods outside our compound
looks like she made some of her own clothes out of ripping up and resewing older garments
she was a wild feral woman!!!!
if I can find my memory card later I will show pics
I brought her cookies every day on my walk and after about a week of this she came out of her hut and let me paint her picture...
a beautiful Russian girl, but TOTALLY BAT-SHIT CRAZY!!!!
I know she was hiding something from me, I could tell she would be BIG TROUBLE...
I know the type only too well from when I was younger...

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 21, 2021, 11:12:23 AM
Can other forum members tell us if they do the above with their other halves???

I get what you're saying Bill that OP and anyone including myself (as you've said this stuff to me in the past) need to really get to know the girl and really spend a lot of time with her. Basically to get to know her so you can be part of her inner everyday life and not some guy she keeps on the outside who she doesn't have a great connection with as both only have a remedial association/connection with.

Is it not going a bit oddball with her though asking her a thousand banal questions about every minor thing she has/buys/uses? I could think that she might get a bit cheesed off or weirded out by all these questions coming her way over every minor thing she has/buys/uses, she may get fed up even.

How come you do such stuff?


You don't like skype because you might have to have an actual conversation with a girl.
You honestly think that I get a girl on skype and ask her several hundred questions?

I've never been with a girl and asked her a hundred questions. I ask her a few questions,
get her talking about things, usually that are interesting to her then I listen, I observe.
I mix in a little of my humor a few stories and anecdotes and a women will tell me everything.
I talk to her every day about every subject and I learn who she is. I don't have a systematic
list of things, I want to learn all about her. Her hopes, dreams and desires.

Sometimes I want to know something specific, like her theories on discipline for children
or if she wears babushka knickers to bed. I always work with the assumption that my
conversation is going to lead us closer to where we want to be in the future.

I am learning about a girl while selling her on the idea that being the future Mrs 2tall
is her hope, dream and desire.

Usually something disqualifies a girl before this goes on too long and I move on
(it's never related to the babushka underwear). Having long deep conversations is
how I learn all those things you social ____________ (rhymes with boron).


Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on April 21, 2021, 11:22:42 AM

You don't like skype because you might have to have an actual conversation with a girl.
You honestly think that I get a girl on skype and ask her several hundred questions?

I've never been with a girl and asked her a hundred questions. I ask her a few questions,
get her talking about things, usually that are interesting to her then I listen, I observe.
I mix in a little of my humor a few stories and anecdotes and a women will tell me everything.
I talk to her every day about every subject and I learn who she is. I don't have a systematic
list of things, I want to learn all about her. Her hopes, dreams and desires.

Sometimes I want to know something specific, like her theories on discipline for children
or if she wears babushka knickers to bed. I always work with the assumption that my
conversation is going to lead us closer to where we want to be in the future.

I am learning about a girl while selling her on the idea that being the future Mrs 2tall
is her hope, dream and desire.

Usually something disqualifies a girl before this goes on too long and I move on
(it's never related to the babushka underwear). Having long deep conversations is
how I learn all those things you social ____________ (rhymes with boron).

Thanks Bill, that explains it a bit more clearly. I hope you didn't pass over too many hot women because her choice of toothpaste wasn't to your liking ;D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 21, 2021, 12:06:46 PM
Thanks Bill, that explains it a bit more clearly. I hope you didn't pass over too many
hot women because her choice of toothpaste wasn't to your liking ;D

There are deal killers.

Show me cRaZy and you get kicked to the curb. Show me dishonesty and I forget
I know you. Take a dog into your bed to sleep with under the covers then we aren't
compatible. When a FSUW starts making excuses for things, it always signals the
beginning of the end.

You need long conversations to discuss children and philosophies on raising them.
You learn vast information on unrelated subjects but you have to listen, observe
and remember. 

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 21, 2021, 01:33:03 PM
Hmm, not certain I agree with you, Bill.  I think you were probably more concerned with "crazy" given your first marriage.  I don't think that's the norm, though, other than, we are all crazy in our own ways.  Absent actual, independently verifiable mental illness, we just need to find someone who is willing to put up with our "craziness", and we with theirs.

I think philosophies on child rearing are just that - philosophies.  They will get thrown out the window once an actual child is born.  Your past experiences in raising children may be more relevant, but even then, that changes over time - different partners, different ages of parents=different dynamics.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Gator on April 22, 2021, 06:02:54 AM
Take a dog into your bed to sleep with under the covers then we aren't
compatible.

 :ROFL:

Bill, we are all different.  By this rule, you and I are not compatible.  You are compatible with my wife. 

Wifey and I had a disagreement one evening so she takes flight and goes to another bedroom.    Normally, my intelligent Great Dane slept downstairs on a rug.  However, she always pursued comfort.   She spotted wifey's move, came to the bedroom and gave me her best friendly look.  I patted the bed and in one leap, she landed her 125 pounds on wifey's spot and immediately went to sleep in luxurious comfort.   

Wifey came back to the bedroom about two hours later, and tried to get into bed, awakening me with the words,  "Oh my God!"  Of course, i had to wash the sheets.

When the dog Zara died years later, wifey cried along with my stepson and stepdaughter.  Great Dane's  longevity is only about 7-8 years.  .   
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: GQBlues on April 22, 2021, 08:44:02 AM
Carried from another thread:


Can other forum members tell us if they do the above with their other halves???<snip>


Personally, no. I am neither this structured that I need to have my checklist met, or have the need to control anyone.

We are all different. I've never demanded/expected anything from any woman I have encountered in my life. Whether I was looking to get laid, party or seeking relationships, much less marriage. One of the popular reasons people justify breaking up from relationships is, he/she changed. A person reverting to who he/she really is, isn't 'changing'. People are prone to step their best foot forward, sometimes in spite of themselves, to propitiate a new relationship. Hell, many men in this pursuit pour money on a woman because they believe it's a better offering than their true self.

I am going to fall for a woman for who she is, and not someone I would like for her to be. That is so true with my wife today.

The MOB adds another layer to this. I never paid any attention to the site's 10 commandments. Not Applicable to me. I never subscribe to any 'rules' in how to woo a woman, much less in the MOB. The MOB is an oxymoron to begin with. In Russia, there used to be so much talk about RWs this, RWs that, etc...then you turn the corner, the same people agreeing that RWs in the MOB are *atypical* Russian women. They're family-oriented but resigned to commit themselves in a relationship with a foreign man and leave family and country behind, etc...

Human relations are as subjective as the people within it.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on April 22, 2021, 10:10:46 AM
[quote author=GQBlues link=topic=22008.msg554409#msg554409 datePeople are prone to step their
People are prone to step their best foot forward, sometimes in spite of themselves, to propitiate a new relationship.
[/quote]

Interesting.

I have a casual Indian (from India) friend now living in USA for 35 years or so.

He is married to woman from India whom his family arranged for him to marry.
They are both of the Brahmin caste.

25 years or so ago, he spoke to me of the superiority of this arranged marriage technique as opposed to our USA system of finding your own wife/husband.

In his words:  In USA, both parties are on their best behavior to woo and catch their marriage partner.  Then, after marriage, they  stop trying.

In the arranged marriage situation:  The parties don't even know each other before marriage.  Then, after marriage, they are on their best behavior.

A simplified explanation . . . but the point is there.

Anyway, they are still married after nearly 40 years.  Two children . . .  both medical doctors.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on April 22, 2021, 12:24:12 PM
In arranged marriages, the parents decide who the best spouse will be for their child.  I don't think they are on their "best behaviour" throughout the marriage.  I think they have lower divorce rates because divorce is so frowned upon in their cultures.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on April 22, 2021, 03:48:26 PM
In Ukraine, India, etc they

You don't know what they do, you are speculating.

Thing is how does a girl really feel about a guy who provides Vs one who can seduce well?

You need to get over your insecurities. What you should worry about is whether you
will be able to do either well.

I know Bill often talks about winning her heart. Is this actually possible
though or is it more a case of a girl either being into a guy or not?
I'm not sure whether seduction actually adds anything either.

You need to get over your insecurities.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 29, 2021, 03:07:21 AM
Reckon since you started this thread a good way to hook a Ukrainian girl would now be to offer a vaccine jab if she agrees to date you :D There apparently back to being dirt poor out there and most can't afford a vaccine jab themselves & the state us too skint to pay for many jabs either. The US & UK are donating some vaccine but still way too short of what they need.
More nonsense from you Trench. I don’t know why you crow on about dirt poor Ukrainian girls. You aren’t exactly a shining example of pecuniary abundance, are you?
Kyiv is a far more expensive place compared to two years ago. I dare say you’d be hard pressed to afford a day out now.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2021, 06:20:55 AM
More nonsense from you Trench. I don’t know why you crow on about dirt poor Ukrainian girls. You aren’t exactly a shining example of pecuniary abundance, are you?
Kyiv is a far more expensive place compared to two years ago. I dare say you’d be hard pressed to afford a day out now.

Don't know how you figure that one out JG, currently you get 37.51 Ukrainian hryvnia to each pound, so one of the best levels of exchange rate for us in recent years. The Ukrainian economy is still suffering from inflation, the effects of the civil war and now the economic effects of the virus. I may not be a particularly wealthy English guy but a few of my English pounds will outstrip most Ukrainians value of earnings :D
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on July 29, 2021, 06:28:50 AM
. . . currently you get 37.51 Ukrainian hryvnia to each pound, so one of the best levels of exchange rate for us in recent years. The Ukrainian economy is still suffering from inflation . . .

Most folks clearly do not understand the relationship between change in exchange rates, inflation, and purchasing power parity.

When the exchange rate changes, inflation changes and many businesses merely increase the price in the local currency.

Also many hotels, restaurants, etc,. figure their prices in USD and then change their prices in the local currency to obtain the same USD as existed before any change in FX rates.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 29, 2021, 11:10:28 AM
Most folks clearly do not understand the relationship between change in exchange rates, inflation, and purchasing power parity.

When the exchange rate changes, inflation changes and many businesses merely increase the price in the local currency.

Also many hotels, restaurants, etc,. figure their prices in USD and then change their prices in the local currency to obtain the same USD as existed before any change in FX rates.

Current inflation issues in Ukraine:

http://intellinews.com/ukraine-makes-surprise-policy-rate-hike-to-8-to-fight-inflation-216380/

Every time a business increases its prices due to inflation and/or the exchange rate wages should in theory be raised also to match this increase. That doesn't always happen of course, main issue is though is that wages already earned are already being inflated away. Not so bad if wages are paid weekly or fortnightly but on monthly or longer wage pay periods it could erode it already a fair bit with high inflation. A lot of Ukrainians have a spend mentality we have been told as there is no point having much in savings as it loses its value so quick. That in turn tends to provoke further inflation and for it to remain high as people are spending all the time. At its worst inflation can outstrip wages and make stuff in shops impossible for many Ukrainians to buy. That in turn can lead to business failures and unemployment, in theory a long term deteriorating cycle. My guess is that the virus economic fallout has push things back into that cycle for Ukraine.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 30, 2021, 03:06:53 AM
Most folks clearly do not understand the relationship between change in exchange rates, inflation, and purchasing power parity.




☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on July 30, 2021, 03:22:15 AM
Don't know how you figure that one out JG, currently you get 37.51 Ukrainian hryvnia to each pound, so one of the best levels of exchange rate for us in recent years. The Ukrainian economy is still suffering from inflation, the effects of the civil war and now the economic effects of the virus. I may not be a particularly wealthy English guy but a few of my English pounds will outstrip most Ukrainians value of earnings :D
Your few GB pounds aren’t going to stretch very far in Kyiv City Centre. Quoting mid market rates isn’t going to help you as you’ll soon find out the first Балют you come to.
Although I wouldn’t put it past you to rock up in Kyiv with a loaf of Warburtons and a pot of Marmite to skimp on eating out.
While you’re at it, bring along a flask so you can treat your date to a mug of char you made in your bathroom sink.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 01, 2021, 01:05:07 AM
Your few GB pounds aren’t going to stretch very far in Kyiv City Centre. Quoting mid market rates isn’t going to help you as you’ll soon find out the first Балют you come to.
Although I wouldn’t put it past you to rock up in Kyiv with a loaf of Warburtons and a pot of Marmite to skimp on eating out.
While you’re at it, bring along a flask so you can treat your date to a mug of char you made in your bathroom sink.

JG when I first went to Ukraine back in 2016 the restaurants in Kiev were diet cheap. It was very much like travelling back in time to the 1980's in the UK. The prices were at 1980's UK prices so a whole meal & a drink could be had for a few Great British pound in a decent everyday Ukrainian restaurant in Kiev.

Since then Ukraine has still had high inflation but the UK has not. Many Ukrainians struggle to buy clothing due to inflation making clothing so costly to them. I'm surprised Ukrainians aren't all running around starkers by now. Even if prices are a bit higher than when I went in 2019 I'm sure I'll still be able to easily afford it :)
Title: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 01, 2021, 10:24:27 AM
Hmm, not certain I agree with you, Bill.  I think you were probably more concerned with "crazy" given your first marriage.  I don't think that's the norm, though, other than, we are all crazy in our own ways.  Absent actual, independently verifiable mental illness, we just need to find someone who is willing to put up with our "craziness", and we with theirs.

Everybody has their own deal killers based on all sorts of reasons. For sure my previous
marriage and my life experiences helped mold what I was seeking to find and seeking
to avoid.

I know guys who would never date a Ginger. There was a guy at one of these fora that
toe length was a thing. A lot of guys will reject smokers, other guys smoke. A list of deal
killers is unique to the individual. The only thing I advise is to never compromise on
character or honesty, but who listens to me?   

I think philosophies on child rearing are just that - philosophies.  They will get thrown out the window once an actual child is born.  Your past experiences in raising children may be more relevant, but even then, that changes over time - different partners, different ages of parents=different dynamics.

Of course they are just philosophies, there is no magic conversation or words. If there was
I would write a book and become filthy rich. Having conversations about philosophies on
raising children is far better than leaving the subject to chance. I know a guy from the other
place that married a woman with a teenage son. They never had a discussion about him.

I find it unbelievable that anyone would marry a woman with a child without having a conversation
about the most important thing in her life. The guy from the other place got divorced, I don't
remember if it took a year or a little longer. All of her philosophies about her son came as a
surprise to him, when none of them should have been (or very few).

Lastly, when talking about these philosophies you can also learn about core values and
character. While talking to a woman from afar, who is she more likely going to make a
connection with, a man who talks about love, life, goals, family and philosophies and
values or a guy who does not?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: John Gaunt on August 01, 2021, 01:13:53 PM
JG when I first went to Ukraine back in 2016 the restaurants in Kiev were diet cheap. It was very much like travelling back in time to the 1980's in the UK. The prices were at 1980's UK prices so a whole meal & a drink could be had for a few Great British pound in a decent everyday Ukrainian restaurant in Kiev.

Since then Ukraine has still had high inflation but the UK has not. Many Ukrainians struggle to buy clothing due to inflation making clothing so costly to them. I'm surprised Ukrainians aren't all running around starkers by now. Even if prices are a bit higher than when I went in 2019 I'm sure I'll still be able to easily afford it :)

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here?
Yes, there is inflation in Ukraine. It doesn’t mean you get more bang for your buck.

If you take your date to Puzata Khata that’s a cheap meal out but I doubt you’ll get a second date.
I quite like the place actually but it’s not somewhere you go for a first date.
I also doubt you’ll be straying too far from city centre so you’ll be paying city centre prices for everything.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 01, 2021, 05:52:25 PM
Of course they are just philosophies, there is no magic conversation or words. If there was I would write a book and become filthy rich. Having conversations about philosophies on raising children is far better than leaving the subject to chance. I know a guy from the other place that married a woman with a teenage son. They never had a discussion about him.

I find it unbelievable that anyone would marry a woman with a child without having a conversation about the most important thing in her life. The guy from the other place got divorced, I don't remember if it took a year or a little longer. All of her philosophies about her son came as a surprise to him, when none of them should have been (or very few).

Lastly, when talking about these philosophies you can also learn about core values and character. While talking to a woman from afar, who is she more likely going to make a connection with, a man who talks about love, life, goals, family and philosophies and values or a guy who does not?


Realisitically, many of these women are seeking foreigners either because they want a higher standard of living, or are "out" of their market, and don't want to die alone.  A lot of them won't have tons of foreign male suitors, so many of those things don't matter.


But, I tend to believe you find what you need (as opposed to what you may want), and that it's all in God's hands.  So, my perspective is no doubt skewed by that.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2021, 01:58:29 AM

Realisitically, many of these women are seeking foreigners either because they want a higher standard of living, or are "out" of their market, and don't want to die alone.  A lot of them won't have tons of foreign male suitors, so many of those things don't matter.


But, I tend to believe you find what you need (as opposed to what you may want), and that it's all in God's hands.  So, my perspective is no doubt skewed by that.

I think you're right on this Boe, the two above reasons you give for FSW seeking a foreign man apples to most of them. It's fundamentally a simple and straightforward enough concept to grasp. Japs a little while ago told us that he found a lot of FSW talk philosophically about love but that a lot of that is often superficial and just to impress the guy. I have communicated with UW and the more I hear them talk like such the less convinced I am of what they say is truely what they mean. Like you have said in the past a lot of them will agree with a guy or say stuff if they see the guy as a successful guy. Krimster said himself that he had given up on the concept of love and instead was content to focus on 'the deal' of what each other wanted from a relationship. That's not to say they didn't enjoy each others company of course.

I personally think it is quite tricky to understand if people in the world really are getting together for 'love' as they think or whether there are other attractions that draw each other. A good looking guy could have women drawn to him for his looks, or because he owns his own home, or because he can fix cars so is seen as very useful, etc. I certainly think that women are hard wired to go for a man that can make himself useful in some way and that's an historical trait.

The more a guy is seen as useful in an avert way the more attention this will attract from females. He is up against other males in this of course, but in western society where a lot of guys are increasingly spending their time on their Xbox, on weed, etc then those guys tend not to be much competition. The guy meanwhile is often attracted by looks but the girl doesn't have to be an impressive model as often thought, most guys will settle for an everyday looking girl who is content with them and has all the usual female sexual functions. Us men are hard wired for sex above looks I believe. If a girl is ugly and/or overweight then she will appeal to very few men though in looks or sex, so again are less competition for other females.

Anyhow, the International Dating game in the FSU does mean that guys can win on different criteria than they would in the west. As you correctly point out some of these women are out of the dating market in their own country in the FSU for various reasons but a western guy can be an option where all local options have pretty much been exhausted. These types of girls can range from pretty girls that never found a local guy to satisfy their wants to everyday looking girls who have the odd character flaw where men passed over them for women that didn't have such an issue. Whether that character flaw is enough to see off western men too or no big deal for the right western man is another matter I think.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 02, 2021, 10:28:38 AM
Realisitically, many of these women are seeking foreigners either because they want a higher standard of living, or are "out" of their market, and don't want to die alone.  A lot of them won't have tons of foreign male suitors, so many of those things don't matter.

Of course they don't say that they are seeking a higher standard of living, (I am assuming
Trench didn't hack into your account). Many that I talked to had a friend who had a foreign
husband and they really liked the way he treated her. I also dated a lot of English teachers
which tend to have more of an interest in Western language and culture. 

There are many women who are out of Market. Once a woman achieves a certain age they
are often treated like milk after it passed it's expiration date. They don't have serious local
suitors who are interested in marriage and a family.

But, I tend to believe you find what you need (as opposed to what you may want), and
that it's all in God's hands.  So, my perspective is no doubt skewed by that.

My advice is to pray like God is going take care of everything, but then to work and prepare
as if he told you he was helping based on your level of effort.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: BC on August 02, 2021, 01:23:44 PM
My advice is to pray like God is going take care of everything, but then to work and prepare
as if he told you he was helping based on your level of effort.

My experience agrees with Boethius.  Marriage was the very last thing on my mind, then it just happened, sorta like getting hit by a bus.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 02, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
Of course they don't say that they are seeking a higher standard of living, (I am assuming
Trench didn't hack into your account). Many that I talked to had a friend who had a foreign
husband and they really liked the way he treated her. I also dated a lot of English teachers
which tend to have more of an interest in Western language and culture. 

There are many women who are out of Market. Once a woman achieves a certain age they
are often treated like milk after it passed it's expiration date. They don't have serious local
suitors who are interested in marriage and a family.

I've had a couple of FSW tell me the 'I have a friend who married a western man/western men treat FSW better' yarn. I now regard it as more talk that masks what the FSW really wants - a better standard of living. The English language teacher or student is apparently an easy place for a native English guy to score, they are apparently like groupies, if you're an English guy then you're the real deal to them. Upon reflection of what was said here I don't see myself becoming an English teacher to Ukrainians, etc as a basis for a source of income. My interest in English language is not all that great and I don't think I would want to commit to it. I could possibly throw out a few freebie basic lessons if over there for a while or a few cheap basic lessons - providing the girl is hot enough of course ;D

I think Boethius isn't just talking about women that have reached a certain age when she says they are, 'out of the market' but also women that tend not to get dates easily or at all of guys because for a variety of reasons but most probably because they don't have the looks, or don't have good social skills, or have character flaws, or want too much from a guy, etc. For the western guy he'll have to judge whether she is good for him either. Many WM who visit such ladies think they have hit gold when such desperate ladies are interested but fail to take into account lady's shortcomings. The man of course may not be all that great himself but he may be too quick to judge mission success I feel.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 02, 2021, 05:38:57 PM
I think Boethius isn't just talking about women that have reached a certain age when she says they are, 'out of the market'.


No, that is exactly what I meant.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 03, 2021, 07:12:33 AM
I don't suppose Trench is married, yet ? ')

Getting married is not a great achievement.  Very easy to do.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 03, 2021, 08:07:27 AM
Boe, see why I asked if he hacked into your account?

what the FSW really wants - a better standard of living. The English language teacher
or student is apparently an easy place for a native English guy to score, they are
apparently like groupies, if you're an English guy then you're the real deal to them.

I think Boethius isn't just talking about women that have reached a certain age when
she says they are, 'out of the market' but also women that tend not to get dates easily
or at all of guys because for a variety of reasons but most probably because they don't
have the looks, or don't have good social skills, or have character flaws, or want too much
from a guy, etc. For the western guy he'll have to judge whether she is good for him either.

Many WM who visit such ladies think they have hit gold when such desperate ladies are
interested but fail to take into account lady's shortcomings. The man of course may not
be all that great himself but he may be too quick to judge mission success I feel.

Trench you are a broken record.

An incel "involuntary celibate", people who define themselves as unable to find a romantic
or sexual partner despite desiring one. Incel's are often characterized by resentment,
misogyny, self-pity, a sense of entitlement.

Do you lack a single one of those traits?

The vast majorities of English teachers in the FSU never look for a foreign husband.
Several of the English teachers I dated were divorced from FSU men.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 03, 2021, 11:59:07 PM
Hello Trenchie..

Brexit is going So 'well' in N.Ireland..

Only England may never be going back to the EU )



Think I can guess who this is ;D

Been a while, hope you're time as an outcast wasn't too painful, lol. I can imagine you probably descended to trolling on Gumtree asking if something was still going then not replying ;)

Anyway, glad you have returned so I can rub your nose in it :D We're now officially free from the EU and it feels like a breath of fresh air to finally be free from all of their impositions and go our own way without being tied down to them AND it appears we are doing rather well already. We beat the EU to developing and securing a Coronavirus vaccine which nor only saved many British lives than would have been lost were we still in the EU but it also demonstrated our superiority to the EU in the field. We managed to rub their nose in it quite well! with them lagging badly behind us n ther vaccine efforts, yet more bungling from the EU.

On trade we are signing free trade deals with countries we would not have been able to sign with if we were still part of the EU. We also got an EU deal to continue trade there ;) In addition our economy is bouncing back from the pandemic better than most EU countries.

So one or two minor areas that will take time to adjust, but we are getting there. Unfortunately for you your argument on NI falls flat as the EU have dropped their legal action and a new more easily workable protocol is being hammered out.

Just such a shame you continue to carry on remoaning when you are now being proved to have got it so badly wrong. The sky hasn't fallen in as you predicted and in fact we are doing & feeling better than ever. Happy Remoaning to you! :D

(My one time reply to a recent message I received from 'you know who' for his information ;))

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 04, 2021, 12:03:53 AM
Boe, see why I asked if he hacked into your account?

Trench you are a broken record.

An incel "involuntary celibate", people who define themselves as unable to find a romantic
or sexual partner despite desiring one. Incel's are often characterized by resentment,
misogyny, self-pity, a sense of entitlement.

Do you lack a single one of those traits?

The vast majorities of English teachers in the FSU never look for a foreign husband.
Several of the English teachers I dated were divorced from FSU men.

Bill I've heard if you're a native English speaker you are literally like God to these foreign English language types. The best of course if you're UK English being the real deal. If you also happen to speak in the official 'received dialect' of English (basically posh old school BBC television service English) then they'll most likely get down on their hands and knees and worship you :)
Title: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 04, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Bill I've heard if you're a native English speaker you are literally like God to these
foreign English language types.

I've heard that if you play with yourself that you can grow hair on your palms
but I didn't believe it. I've heard reports of the Lock Ness Monster but I didn't
believe them either. It would be cool if there was a Loch Ness monster, it really
would since I don't believe the report it might be better to not waste too much
time on it.

Did you experience a lot of God like treatment? No? Me neither.

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: ML on August 05, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
I spent time with several English language teachers during my several
WMVM trips.

They were all enjoyable to be with because of their English skills . . .
but I had just as good a time with those who were not English teachers, provided they had adequate English skills.

And interestingly . . . I went back for month long visits with only one of the English teachers.  She was very good looking with great body and we had a lot of good times.  However, she frequently went into sulking mode over various things, so it didn't work out.  Thinking back, she went from being fairly prudish about sex to being very wild, so I tend to take some credit for that !!

- - - - - - -

Thinking back about her frequent bouts of sulking . . . once I asked her why she was so upset about X (can't remember what X was).

She said, no it wasn't about X it was about chocolate.

We had purchased a couple of boxes of chocolate on our month long visit to Turkey and had some every day.

I told her:  We couldn't keep eating chocolate every day in the future because I was gaining too much weight.

Later she began the sulking and said:  My daughters and I have chocolate every evening, but you don't have to eat any.

I said:  I couldn't watch you 3 eating chocolate without eating some myself.

She said:  You are a strong man . . . you should be able to resist.

We didn't bring up the chocolate again . . . but we both put the matter in our individual book of debits and credits.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 05, 2021, 03:35:46 PM
I spent time with several English language teachers during my several
WMVM trips.

They were all enjoyable to be with because of their English skills . . .
but I had just as good a time with those who were not English teachers, provided they had adequate English skills.

And interestingly . . . I went back for month long visits with only one of the English teachers.  She was very good looking with great body and we had a lot of good times.  However, she frequently went into sulking mode over various things, so it didn't work out.  Thinking back, she went from being fairly prudish about sex to being very wild, so I tend to take some credit for that !!

- - - - - - -

Thinking back about her frequent bouts of sulking . . . once I asked her why she was so upset about X (can't remember what X was).

She said, no it wasn't about X it was about chocolate.

We had purchased a couple of boxes of chocolate on our month long visit to Turkey and had some every day.

I told her:  We couldn't keep eating chocolate every day in the future because I was gaining too much weight.

Later she began the sulking and said:  My daughters and I have chocolate every evening, but you don't have to eat any.

I said:  I couldn't watch you 3 eating chocolate without eating some myself.

She said:  You are a strong man . . . you should be able to resist.

We didn't bring up the chocolate again . . . but we both put the matter in our individual book of debits and credits.

Lol, the things Ukrainian women can argue over. Sounds like you had a blast out there ML and many fun times :)

Just messaged 270 Ukrainian women to try & kick of a visit many. If I can get women lined up I'll probably only be able to visit 4 as will only have 4 days. I think doing more than one a day would be too much for me. It's the most I can do at the moment as time constraints everywhere. Still reckon it could be good if I can get it to work that way. Some women I messaged haven't been online for a while so will just have to see who might reply back.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2021, 02:05:29 AM
My new Brexit Passport arrived yesterday :D

I decided to get rid of my old EU passport even though it didn't expire till mid way through 2025. I felt I needed to cleanse myself of the EU proper.

So I feel that a proper British passport will be more prestigious in the eyes of Ukrainian women than the old burgundy EU cover one. With Britain coming way ahead of the EU in the vaccine stakes and it's economy still being in a decent shape I think they'll prize getting with a UK guy over a EU guy. The UK now no longer allows anyone to walse in from Eastern Europe so making it an envied country to be a part off :)
Title: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 07, 2021, 10:25:43 AM
My new Brexit Passport arrived yesterday :D

So I feel that a proper British passport will be more prestigious in the eyes of Ukrainian
women than the old burgundy EU cover one.

You know, I think Trench is finally starting to get it.

Here is a good article about crowbars/prybars wrecking bars. Which you will need
to pry all the wimmin that you be all over you because of your new passport.

http://earlyexperts.net/best-crowbars-reviewed/

I only worry that the many of the girls won't see it. You could buy one of those
clear badge protectors and hang it around your neck like the VIP's wear.

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-12436C/Vinyl-Envelopes-Job-Ticket-Holders/Vinyl-Tag-Protectors-4-x-6-Clear?pricode=WB0211&gadtype=pla&id=S-12436C&gclid=CjwKCAjw3riIBhAwEiwAzD3TiSlVskksUlTOZU1uFWk6ON2iKWHBx_krDV1k7al1nUNs5s14zRpniRoCVWAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Maybe with your super prestigious passport you can also get a pair of fake
designer sunglasses. Will the girls think you are in some famous boy band?

http://www.wholesalediscountsunglasses.com/replica-sunglasses.html

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 07, 2021, 10:52:00 AM

I only worry that the many of the girls won't see it. You could buy one of those
clear badge protectors and hang it around your neck like the VIP's wear.

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-12436C/Vinyl-Envelopes-Job-Ticket-Holders/Vinyl-Tag-Protectors-4-x-6-Clear?pricode=WB0211&gadtype=pla&id=S-12436C&gclid=CjwKCAjw3riIBhAwEiwAzD3TiSlVskksUlTOZU1uFWk6ON2iKWHBx_krDV1k7al1nUNs5s14zRpniRoCVWAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

That's a great idea Bill! I could walk down the middle of Khreshchatyk holding it aloft like I'm on a protest march. All the Ukrainian women will be in such awe that they'll start stripping off legs going akimbo everywhere :D Any traffic will all come to a standstill and the Arabs will get down on their hands and knees and worship my presence ;D
Title: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: 2tallbill on August 07, 2021, 11:54:39 AM
That's a great idea Bill! I could walk down the middle of Khreshchatyk holding it aloft like I'm on a protest march. All the Ukrainian women will be in such awe that they'll start stripping off legs going akimbo everywhere :D Any traffic will all come to a standstill

You should also photograph your modern appliances, electric can openers and such.
The girls will imagine how easy their life will be with these modern conveniences if
they were so lucky as to marry you, who knows what they would do to gain your
affection?

Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 08, 2021, 01:58:03 PM
You should also photograph your modern appliances, electric can openers and such.
The girls will imagine how easy their life will be with these modern conveniences if
they were so lucky as to marry you, who knows what they would do to gain your
affection?

Great idea Bill, show them how we live it up in a technologically advanced nation, I'm sure they'll do almost anything for it :P
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: tfcrew on August 08, 2021, 03:16:29 PM
You should also photograph your modern appliances, electric can openers and such.
The girls will imagine how easy their life will be with these modern conveniences if
they were so lucky as to marry you, who knows what they would do to gain your
affection?
                                                    (http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/cheesy.gif)
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2021, 03:52:16 AM
Hmmnn... Not a lot of women on Fdate at the moment, even for Kiev. A lot of them haven't been on there in a long while so no replies or views of my profiles from my messaging from them. The other few seem to be the same ones that go on there routinely. Thinking a WMVM will only likely work for the whole of Ukraine or possibly a huge city like Moscow at the moment. Other than that writing to a few women and visiting a few women might work. My guess is that most women are probably scared of meetings WM at the moment as they fear they might catch the virus. Official virus figures are low in Ukraine at the moment so guessing their thinking we carry the greater risk at the moment f the Delta variant. Anyone out in Ukraine with up to date news would be handy to hear from?
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2021, 02:17:09 PM
Well looks like Belarus will likely be off my list. The UK has just hit it with economic sanctions (US too apparently though not sure if there the same) part of which is that no Belarusian airlines can land in the UK so Belavia which is the only airline I know that goes from the to Minsk, Belarus will I presume no more. So my guess is that I would have to use a transfer destination which makes it all way too much fuss with everything going on and all.

Kind of annoys me that governments choose for the people where they go or not when it really should be left up to the individual if they chose to patronage a country. Belarus has done nothing against the UK so their internal affairs are really none of our concern in my view.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 09, 2021, 02:28:30 PM
Stop being a drama queen.  The government is not choosing where you go.  You can still go to Belarus.  You just have to do so through Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, or Latvia.  The fact this is "too much" for you suggests you're not particularly invested in Belarus.
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Trenchcoat on August 09, 2021, 03:04:40 PM
Stop being a drama queen.  The government is not choosing where you go.  You can still go to Belarus.  You just have to do so through Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, or Latvia.  The fact this is "too much" for you suggests you're not particularly invested in Belarus.

Probably not Russia, think there was something to do with the visa free requirements that meant you couldn't use Russia, not sure why. In truth Belarus was second on my list to Ukraine as it tends to cost more to travel to and stay in, no budget airlines go there etc. Still I would prefer the option as a second choice but now it's so inconvenient it's almost off the table :(
Title: Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
Post by: Boethius on August 26, 2021, 11:01:25 AM
In the west we have fat women spouting 'body positive' bs that they think will persuade dudes to date them. In reality only other fat women buy into that politically correct bs and the odd rare chubby chasing guy.I personally prefer the Russian way that people just come out with how things are and not sugar coat it in bs. People know where they stand which is nice & refreshing.Anyhow, yeah I've noticed that a lot of the pics on EM you can kind of see that the girl has been given advice as to what to wear/how to present themselves & not just any possible dubious profiles. Some of the women you can see aren't necessarily all that pretty but because they've put on a decent dress and some slap they look a lot better and more appealing.Elena gives advice to the guys as well and some of it isn't bad. Again just really trying to get the guy to the image of what the girl really wants cutting away the bs.


Body positive movements are definitely NOT about men.  But because you don't value women beyond what they can do for you, personally, this is beyond your comprehension.  Incidentally, in both Russia and Ukraine, being overweight is generally accepted.  It's just considered a fact, not a character flaw.

Personally, I don't find boorish behaviour "refreshing".  If you don't know where you stand in "polite" society, it's because you can't read social cues.

EM also gave advice to women on what to write to men, to increase interest.  There was a woman who used to post here that set up her own matchmaking site, and she used to post that same information here, in Russian, for a short period.  I suppose it works because a lot of men are simpletons.  However, it's not great to pretend to be something you are not.