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Author Topic: Trench's Questions and Philosophies  (Read 457492 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1550 on: May 21, 2018, 04:38:27 PM »
Jay, the Ukrainian worker is NOT earning $100 a day so why would I need it. If they are paying  $200 a month for a flat then likilihoid is most aren't earning much more than $400 a monthigh.  From stuff online many seem to suggest ita not a lot more than $200 that they earn outside of Kiev.
You are mistaken.

The minimum wage in Ukraine is USD$170.  Most Ukrainians earn over USD$200, and there are a lot earning thousands a month.

What you are not considering is that this is an "official" salary.  Everyone who works earns income that is not reported, so it's never taken into account in determining average wages.

Most Ukrainians also aren't paying rent on apartments.  Finally, as a foreigner, you will always pay a premium.  You cannot live like a Ukrainian.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 04:45:32 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline JayH

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1551 on: May 21, 2018, 04:57:06 PM »
No, house renovation is a capItal gain in the UK if it is your only/main residence and you have lived there for a while.

Enough enough enough pf you BS nonsense.
In any category --it IS NOT a capital gain until you sell .

So -- let us see if I am correct --  it is your own house primary place of residence that you are renovating that is the subject of your comments about a gain-- correct?

Additionally -- you do not intend to sell -- correct?


Capital gains tax on the sale of your home


Updated on 10 April 2018
Normally when you sell your home you do not have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the profit because the gain is relieved (exempt) from tax


http://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/armed-forces-and-tax/other-tax-issues/capital-gains-tax-armed-services/capital-gains-tax
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 05:11:55 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Sting23

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1552 on: May 21, 2018, 09:49:21 PM »
Trench you got no idea what capital gains is.  How exactly are you making money from your "building projects"? 

Renting out your place is considered income not gains.  It all sounds fishy to me what you got going on.




Offline Sting23

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1553 on: May 21, 2018, 10:43:15 PM »

I wish it were so simple as to mail order me a bride ;D

Found this gem of a quote from Rainman.  Sums it all up.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1554 on: May 22, 2018, 12:24:48 AM »

So then what you take home annually is less than 15,000?  How are you paying capital gains on a your primary residence?  Have you sold it?

Yes I am currently taking home less than £15000, I'm taking home around £14k. That is because I do only 30 hours a week. Incidentally it also means I don't pay much income tax or NI contribution since I'm only over the bordetime by a bit when that kicks in.

I have not yet sold my primary residence because Im still doing it up. When this is done I can rent it out for a whlie to generate more income as to live abroad. When no longer needed for that I could sell it and realise the capital gain. I bought the house for below market value as it was in a state of disrepair and needed doing up - hence the capital gain.

So of course until I sell it and realise the capital gain the capital gain is only I theory. I bought the house at auction for almost have the average cost of houses on the street accordingly to Zoopla and that seems fairly accurate according to most recent house price sells. So I should be in a fairly decent position at the end of it all.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline JayH

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1555 on: May 22, 2018, 12:27:29 AM »
Yes I am currently taking home less than £15000, I'm taking home around £14k. That is because I do only 30 hours a week. Incidentally it also means I don't pay much income tax or NI contribution since I'm only over the bordetime by a bit when that kicks in.

I have not yet sold my primary residence because Im still doing it up. When this is done I can rent it out for a whlie to generate more income as to live abroad. When no longer needed for that I could sell it and realise the capital gain. I bought the house for below market value as it was in a state of disrepair and needed doing up - hence the capital gain.

So of course until I sell it and realise the capital gain the capital gain is only I theory. I bought the house at auction for almost have the average cost of houses on the street accordingly to Zoopla and that seems fairly accurate according to most recent house price sells. So I should be in a fairly decent position at the end of it all.

Answer the question

Enough enough enough pf you BS nonsense.
In any category --it IS NOT a capital gain until you sell .

So -- let us see if I am correct --  it is your own house primary place of residence that you are renovating that is the subject of your comments about a gain-- correct?

Additionally -- you do not intend to sell -- correct?


Capital gains tax on the sale of your home


Updated on 10 April 2018
Normally when you sell your home you do not have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the profit because the gain is relieved (exempt) from tax


http://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/armed-forces-and-tax/other-tax-issues/capital-gains-tax-armed-services/capital-gains-tax
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1556 on: May 22, 2018, 12:36:51 AM »
Yes I am currently taking home less than £15000, I'm taking home around £14k. That is because I do only 30 hours a week. Incidentally it also means I don't pay much income tax or NI contribution since I'm only over the bordetime by a bit when that kicks in.

I have not yet sold my primary residence because Im still doing it up. When this is done I can rent it out for a whlie to generate more income as to live abroad. When no longer needed for that I could sell it and realise the capital gain. I bought the house for below market value as it was in a state of disrepair and needed doing up - hence the capital gain.

So of course until I sell it and realise the capital gain the capital gain is only I theory. I bought the house at auction for almost have the average cost of houses on the street accordingly to Zoopla and that seems fairly accurate according to most recent house price sells. So I should be in a fairly decent position at the end of it all.

You’ve been posting all along that you don’t need much income, as you have a mortgage free home. So if you sell your home, where will you live?

I thought your other thought was to rent the home while you’re abroad. Which means no capital gain.

Either way, unless you have significant savings, it seems you are under undercapitalized for this venture.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1557 on: May 22, 2018, 12:44:06 AM »
You’ve been posting all along that you don’t need much income, as you have a mortgage free home. So if you sell your home, where will you live?

I thought your other thought was to rent the home while you’re abroad. Which means no capital gain.

Either way, unless you have significant savings, it seems you are under undercapitalized for this venture.

I can temporarily live at my Mothers house, no not basement ;D You see if I bought a second house on a mortgage to do all of this then I would have to pay stamp duty and capital gains tax would start to come into play (since it is a non residing property). On just a single property owned though at given point in time I pay no stamp duty.

I will rent the home so I will be putting off the capItal gain, but on selling there will be one almost for sure.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline JayH

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1558 on: May 22, 2018, 12:48:32 AM »
So-- everything you have repeatedly posted about money & capital gain in BS ( along with the huge majority of what you write here.

Of note -- when faced with facts== TC seeks to divert  and refuses to face the reality.

But, then comes the" I think" -- which is actually diametrically opposed to what he does -- he spews garbage from his keyboard that is mostly  pure BS. :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1559 on: May 22, 2018, 12:50:59 AM »
I can temporarily live at my Mothers house, no not basement ;D You see if I bought a second house on a mortgage to do all of this then I would have to pay stamp duty and capital gains tax would start to come into play (since it is a non residing property). On just a single property owned though at given point in time I pay no stamp duty.

I will rent the home so I will be putting off the capItal gain, but on selling there will be one almost for sure.

Wasn't your goal to marry, have children, and your long term goal to have an FSU wife living with you in the UK?  Do you really believe living with your mother would be conducive to a good marriage?  That would be a major stress on 99/100 marriages.

So, you are really down to a low income while you fix your home, which, presumably, you do not intend to sell.  I still believe you are underfunded for this venture.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 02:21:03 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline JayH

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1560 on: May 22, 2018, 12:58:41 AM »
For the record and anyone reading-- you could do a trip on a very low budget > Think backpacker type accom which is available with decent facilities for about $10 a night in many cities.If you eat at the right places and shop at markets and supermarkets,use the trains and buses -- you could do it on a very tight budget.
Now if you are 20 yo or a youthful 30 yo - it would be doable  for about $250 a week.

You would need to do your homework and have a plan  -- not speaking the language would not matter -- and you would have a great experience .

Summer would be best -- but Autumn and Spring ok also.Winter can be ok away from the depths . :)
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1561 on: May 22, 2018, 01:03:55 AM »
I'm not referring to travel costs.  I am referring to marriage.

Also, I think if Blighty's analysis of Trench's working class attitudes is correct (I assume it is), he would be better to visit places like Zaporizhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, and Mykolayiv.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 01:27:46 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1562 on: May 22, 2018, 01:04:55 AM »
You are mistaken.

The minimum wage in Ukraine is USD$170.  Most Ukrainians earn over USD$200, and there are a lot earning thousands a month.

What you are not considering is that this is an "official" salary.  Everyone who works earns income that is not reported, so it's never taken into account in determining average wages.

Most Ukrainians also aren't paying rent on apartments.  Finally, as a foreigner, you will always pay a premium.  You cannot live like a Ukrainian.

Ok many Ukrainians may well now own their own apartment so no rent to pay. Those that do I have heard of prices around the $200 for a two bed apartment and estate agents on the internet quoting similar prices. Yes I would have to rent probably fir at least six months to a year to get at that rate it it is a cheap rate. I could rent a whole year but not be compelled to stay there all the time, it would only cost me $1200 for the year plus bills.

I know a lot of unofficial wages are not counted so all is perhaps not as it seems. There is also a lot of unrecorded unemployment no doubt then the situation with inflation. I do think though that Ukrainians are not rolling in it. To my mind the Ukrainian government is getting money in somehow to pay for its army, government infrastructure, benefits, debts etc.

I realise I need to improve my financial situation even still further and I'm working on this but it will not happen overnight. It will take a year or so and that is quite a quick pace really.

However, if you look at guys like Bounder, he is in Moscow one of the priciest cities in the FSU. He is entirely supporting himself of his English Foreign Language earnings. He has no independent income to fall back on. He us working all hours under the sun for it yet he also manages just to date as well.

What I'm saying is that in a cheaper area, it should be very doable to live their for a while. Ok so I will have to apply for a business visales or whatever. I'll do whatever is needed to sort the situation but I'm sure it can be done.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1563 on: May 22, 2018, 01:12:42 AM »
You’ve been posting all along that you don’t need much income, as you have a mortgage free home. So if you sell your home, where will you live?

I thought your other thought was to rent the home while you’re abroad. Which means no capital gain.

Either way, unless you have significant savings, it seems you are under undercapitalized for this venture.

I obviously won't be living with my Mother I say temporarily as in between selling one house and buying another.

What I am trying to do is to obtain a position of flexibility in this venture. Until you meet a girl you don't know her thoughts on moving abroad or staying in her home country. So guys meet girls just to be stumped by her point blankly refusing to move abroad as all her family live there.

I have some savings a few grand, which should increase over time. So while more savings is always good there is not a bad fallback if I need it.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline JayH

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1564 on: May 22, 2018, 01:13:12 AM »


So, you are really down to a low income while you fix your home, which you presumably do not intend to sell.  I still believe you are underfunded for this venture.

"Out" there in Ukraine my Ukrainian  ex ( who is quite a bit younger than TC) is now earning (on the books) far more than TC . I guarantee that her renovated apartment( in a grey dreary Soviet era block !!) is of 5 star western level with all modern appliances . She has some modest savings   ,has made several trips to other countries  etc etc .

That is all her own work after some very tough years while studying and in early work years. She is better off than average , but in no way unique . :)

SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Sting23

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1565 on: May 22, 2018, 01:18:14 AM »
Dude, you have zero qualifications to teach English.  Your command of the language is poor.  You yourself said you didn't have the aptitude to be a teacher, now you think you can go abroad and teach?

In Moscow you need ESL certificates and work experience.  The days of just being a native speaker and getting a job are loooong gone.  Your students will find out quickly that you can't teach and then they'll quit lessons.

You haven't lived abroad before. This isn't like going for a week long vacation somewhere.  Being in a foreign country not knowing the language will wear you out fast.

I speak some Russian and even I had to adapt.  I guarantee you the Russian mentality will mess you up.  They don't think like people in Western countries.




Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1566 on: May 22, 2018, 01:19:30 AM »
Ok many Ukrainians may well now own their own apartment so no rent to pay. Those that do I have heard of prices around the $200 for a two bed apartment and estate agents on the internet quoting similar prices. Yes I would have to rent probably fir at least six months to a year to get at that rate it it is a cheap rate. I could rent a whole year but not be compelled to stay there all the time, it would only cost me $1200 for the year plus bills.


First, you will never get a rate that Ukrainians pay.  I don't get Ukrainian rates unless I'm with the better half, and that is only because I don't mind paying more as a foreigner, but he does.


Second, you can't stay in Ukraine a whole year.  You can only stay for up to 90 days in any 180 day period. 

Quote
I know a lot of unofficial wages are not counted so all is perhaps not as it seems. There is also a lot of unrecorded unemployment no doubt then the situation with inflation. I do think though that Ukrainians are not rolling in it. To my mind the Ukrainian government is getting money in somehow to pay for its army, government infrastructure, benefits, debts etc.


No, Ukrainians are not rolling in it.  But that doesn't mean you can live as they do.

Quote
However, if you look at guys like Bounder, he is in Moscow one of the priciest cities in the FSU. He is entirely supporting himself of his English Foreign Language earnings. He has no independent income to fall back on. He us working all hours under the sun for it yet he also manages just to date as well.


He was a federal civil servant, so he was making a good wage in Canada.  He did have savings when he first landed in Moscow.  He did not land in the country impecunious.

Quote
What I'm saying is that in a cheaper area, it should be very doable to live their for a while. Ok so I will have to apply for a business visales or whatever. I'll do whatever is needed to sort the situation but I'm sure it can be done.


To obtain a long term visa in Ukraine, you have to prove you have sufficient funds to support yourself. 


So what do you plan to do there?  If you wish to teach English and the school tests your language skills, you will not be successful.  You can't tell the difference between a contraction and a possessive pronoun, a simple concept that my children learned in the first grade.  That means any English language teaching job worth having will not be available to you.  One thing you will learn in Ukraine is that if people are paying for foreign language lessons, they are sticklers for grammatical rules.


As I have posted in the past, any job at which you will make good money - money enough to support yourself - will also make  you a target for Ukrainians.  My husband's cousin owns kiosks selling foods all over Kyiv.  He has to pay a roof (protection money) to keep them in operation. Another cousin owns a salon.  She also pays protection money.  Another, as I posted previously, leases farmlands.  She also owns two stores in Kyiv.  She also pays protection money.  This is common in Ukraine. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline JayH

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1567 on: May 22, 2018, 01:22:26 AM »
Ok many Ukrainians may well now own their own apartment so no rent to pay. Those that do I have heard of prices around the $200 for a two bed apartment and estate agents on the internet quoting similar prices. Yes I would have to rent probably fir at least six months to a year to get at that rate it it is a cheap rate. I could rent a whole year but not be compelled to stay there all the time, it would only cost me $1200 for the year plus bills.

Do you read nothing?
You can only stay 90 days in any 6 month period -- you cannot stay for a year. FULL STOP

So more BS

I'm not referring to travel costs.  I am referring to marriage.

Also, I think if Blighty analysis of Trench's working class attitudes is correct (I assume it is), he would be better to visit places like Zaporizhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Kherson, and Mykolayiv.

As it happens -- I know all those cities quite well.
I do not think attitudes are that different to Kyiv  or Odessa.
I love Dnipro - good place and interesting.
My preference is for TC NOT to go there-- no one deserves that. :deadhorse:
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Sting23

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1568 on: May 22, 2018, 01:23:28 AM »

 Until you meet a girl you don't know her thoughts on moving abroad or staying in her home country. So guys meet girls just to be stumped by her point blankly refusing to move abroad as all her family live there.


That's why you Skype before you go!!  use some common sense man.  You establish communication before hand and figure out her intentions.  Ask point blank does she want to leave her country.  Where she wants to live. 

You can't even think it through.  You're just going to randomly meet girls on your trip. You have no idea if they even want to date a foreigner or move abroad. What a waste of time.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1569 on: May 22, 2018, 01:24:37 AM »
As it happens -- I know all those cities quite well.
I do not think attitudes are that different to Kyiv  or Odessa.
I love Dnipro - good place and interesting.


They are all "working class" cities, so not as big a stretch as Kyiv, Odesa, or L'viv. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1570 on: May 22, 2018, 01:32:02 AM »
It may sound to you as if everyone here is a naysayer, Trench, but we can just see the holes in your planning.  Were you 25 and doing this, I'd say it's foolish, but you're young, just be careful, don't cross any gopniks, always be aware of your surroundings, and enjoy yourself.  But you're not 25, and I just see it as a waste of time, and, more importantly, poor planning on your part with respect to achieving your desired goal. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Blighty

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1571 on: May 22, 2018, 01:53:21 AM »
I realise I need to improve my financial situation even still further and I'm working on this but it will not happen overnight. It will take a year or so and that is quite a quick pace really.

I obviously won't be living with my Mother I say temporarily as in between selling one house and buying another.

What I am trying to do is to obtain a position of flexibility in this venture. Until you meet a girl you don't know her thoughts on moving abroad or staying in her home country. So guys meet girls just to be stumped by her point blankly refusing to move abroad as all her family live there.

I have some savings a few grand, which should increase over time. So while more savings is always good there is not a bad fallback if I need it.

What planet do you live on? I worry about some Ukrainian woman falling for you, and then discovering that she has to spend the rest of her life in Ukraine because you fail the spouse visa tests:

- Your income is too low amd so you will fail the financial test
- You will probably fail the accommodation test
- Your savings are under £16,000 and so do not count

These rules are intended to protect foreign spouses from idiots like you who live in an English 'dumpsk'. No doubt you will become one of those men campaigning to abolish the tests because you cannot really afford to support your wife in the UK.

BTW I have modernised my primary properties in the past, and you are only exempt from capital gains after 3 years. The next house is always more expensive. My last endeavour was break even as the property market in the north never really recovered after the last price crash. More fantasy land thinking from you. Perhaps you need 39to find a partner working in the construction industry!

Offline JayH

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1572 on: May 22, 2018, 02:02:48 AM »
Do you really believe living with your mother would be conducive to a good marriage?  That would be a major stress on 99/100 marriages.


  A friend of mine from Crimea married an Italian guy when she was 18 yo ( against her families wishes)  and went to Italy for a better life. Problem was -he lived with his mother and refused to move out ! Six months later,pregnant and penniless she fled back to Ukraine.
There was no way,as in no way she would ever return to him or have him in her life .

Subsequently she picked up work she had done before as a DJ -- and has been very successful ,doing gigs in many different countries and now happily married with 2 more children.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Sting23

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1573 on: May 22, 2018, 03:26:42 AM »
  A friend of mine from Crimea married an Italian guy when she was 18 yo ( against her families wishes)  and went to Italy for a better life. Problem was -he lived with his mother and refused to move out !



Damn. how old was he at the time?!   I guess when you're 18 you can be blinded by love.  she was going for La Dolce Vita and got hit with reality.  there's a thing with Russian women and Italian guys.  I have several friends who went to Italy to find a guy but none worked out.  From what they told me Italian guys can be mama's boys and immature.  Suave and charming but too much drama in a relationship.

Offline msmob

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #1574 on: May 22, 2018, 10:17:22 AM »
I know two RU lasses married to Itai guys for over 10 years ....

 

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