Trench's Questions and Philosophies

[Blighty]

A tourist visa is about the same ordeal as a marriage one for the UK. In fact a tourist one would be far more likely to be declined in fact almost certain (even Moby agrees with me on that one ) since she is a young girl in a retail job hence very poor income and so little reason to want to return whether it was done on her income or mine.

A tourist visa is much simpler than a spouse visa! The latter is far more complex and requires significant proof about the relationship, proposed accommodation, and sponsor's annual income.

My wife networks with like-minded women who told her that she would never receive a UK visit visa. She accepted this advice, although was upset and disappointed that she could not visit the UK before our marriage. The planning for the spouse visa takes a long time, especially with the preparation for the Life Skills English Test. You need a strong relationship to survive the stresses of separation caused by UK immigration policy.

[msmob]

Hi Blighty,

I was lucky in that I lived in Cyprus - had an Irish passport and was able to circumvent the need for my ( then ) wife to pass such tests - which she would have failed

Now she has a level 5 tertiary qualification and her English was brought on by study - aiming for various qualifications

I understand the UK immigration laws are designed to stop folks bringing in partners who aren't reasonable at English and wonder at how guys from the UK bother to chase lasses who can't speak the lingo

[Blighty]

I understand the UK immigration laws are designed to stop folks bringing in partners who aren't reasonable at English and wonder at how guys from the UK bother to chase lasses who can't speak the lingo

Theresa Mayhem has always wanted to keep non-EEA partners out of the UK, and the English test is just one of the tools used to stop immigration. My wife has a Ukrainian friend denied a UK spouse visa on the basis of insufficient photos in the supporting documents. The immigration forums are full of the dirty tricks used by UKVI to meet their refusal targets.

My wife and I met in Ukraine, and we just clicked with each other. Our view was that the partner is more important than the language skills. The English can be learnt, or in my wife's case re-learnt. Apparently her English was much better when at school (35 years ago) than now. If you have the chemistry (as TC would say) then the cultural/language differences are relatively insignificant.

[Trenchcoat]

A tourist visa is much simpler than a spouse visa! The latter is far more complex and requires significant proof about the relationship, proposed accommodation, and sponsor's annual income.

My wife networks with like-minded women who told her that she would never receive a UK visit visa. She accepted this advice, although was upset and disappointed that she could not visit the UK before our marriage. The planning for the spouse visa takes a long time, especially with the preparation for the Life Skills English Test. You need a strong relationship to survive the stresses of separation caused by UK immigration policy.

That's was the main reason I suggested Cyprus, I saw that it could be the perfect solution. The UK visiting visa that she would stand no chance of getting would not be an issue as she could easily get into Cyprus. We could then live together for short periods before marriage (spouse visa which she could get). Cyprus has a mix of English and Russian so not overwhelming for either of us - she has apparently only been abroad to one other country and still youngish so it could possibly overwhelm her if she came to the UK. Cyprus also has Greek Orthodox church so though she is only mildly religious again it is closer to her culture. She also likes beaches and unfortunately shopping both of which Cyprus has in abundance with big new quality shopping malls with all the shops she so unfortunately likes but oh no that doesn't suit Madam, lol and more importantly she seems to have no idea as to how she would stand no chance of getting the UK tourist visa.

Cyprus may not be without issue but they can all be gotten around without too much trouble. Her English was coming along quite nicely when in Cyprus, I would say between basic and intermediate. She doesn't understand complex words but she does understand most basic words and can get across her pint in most situations and understand me so long as its just basic words I use even if explaining a more complex problem. Kind of like how you dumb it down a lot to speak to a child so as to not bamboozle them.

[msmob]

That's was the main reason I suggested Cyprus, I saw that it could be the perfect solution.

And what, pray would you do to earn a crust in Cyprus ? ! 

[Anotherkiwi]

And what, pray would you do to earn a crust in Cyprus ? ! 

Obviously teach English while photographing his students! Duh!

[Trenchcoat]

Hmm, I have no desire to live amongst ex-pats .. trying to make a part of CY like the UK


As for your chasing young tail with no chance to get a UK Visa...  I told you THAT, too ...  BEFORE you took your trip ..

A bit above the common herd are we To be honest I didn't mind the English crowding Paphos as didn't seem at all the chavy sort you get out in Spain, i.e the England t-shirt crowd. Most seemed pretty low key and busied themselves on their own matters. I don't think the presence of a few Brits there negatively stood out much at all or even really stood out at all. I see no reason to go all overboard and go all dances with wolves to feel a bit superior I liked Paphos a lot

She would be able to get a spouse visa. All I asked for was a bit of flexibility it the lead up to it, i.e where we got to know each other more. How was I supposed to know she would be so against anything else. If she was a bit more reasonable on that then who knows. If I were to go back to her the only recourse I would have if she were still so stubborn would to be to do the visa even knowing it would stand virtually no chance of success just to show her, last time I messaged several months back she just would not accept that she would not get one because apparently her older female friend who also worked in retail had done but as you know circumstances vary so could me more to it than that assuming she is being straight up of course.

[Blighty]

There is a long Tripadvisor thread on Ukrainians failing to get UK Visitor visas ...

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g294473-i3662-k10096309-o40-British_visas_For_Ukrainian_citizens-Ukraine.html

Useful ammunition for you!

[msmob]

A bit above the common herd are we

No...I've seen the ex-pat scene ... too much boozing ...'Middle class; or not...I honestly prefer the company of locals of Russian speakers - more dinner parties than piss ups in sports bars

She would be able to get a spouse visa. All I asked for was a bit of flexibility it the lead up to it, i.e where we got to know each other more. How was I supposed to know she would be so against anything else. If she was a bit more reasonable on that then who knows. If I were to go back to her the only recourse I would have if she were still so stubborn would to be to do the visa even knowing it would stand virtually no chance of success just to show her, last time I messaged several months back she just would not accept that she would not get one because apparently her older female friend who also worked in retail had done but as you know circumstances vary so could me more to it than that assuming she is being straight up of course.

Would she ?  From how you described the lass - she couldn't speak enough English and would certainly not pass the 'knowledge of UK test' - which you'd fail...

[Blighty]

Would she ?  From how you described the lass - she couldn't speak enough English and would certainly not pass the 'knowledge of UK test' - which you'd fail...

Why the negativity? The final B1 English test is not too difficult, and should be easily passed after 5 years. The 'Life in the UK Test' after 5 years simply requires some swotting and prior practice tests. This positivity requires the woman to be allowed to integrate into UK society rather than held under 'house arrest'. My wife's plan is to spend 5 years learning about the UK's history, culture, etc whilst fully integrating into UK society. She is not going fail with such a positive attitude and my full support.

[msmob]

Why the negativity? The final B1 English test is not too difficult, and should be easily passed after 5 years. The 'Life in the UK Test' after 5 years simply requires some swotting and prior practice tests. This positivity requires the woman to be allowed to integrate into UK society rather than held under 'house arrest'. My wife's plan is to spend 5 years learning about the UK's history, culture, etc whilst fully integrating into UK society. She is not going fail with such a positive attitude and my full support.

Hi Blighty

I'm not sure I'd use the 'negative' adjective - pragmatism was surely be more appropriate

To explain to others - just to get in to the UK - Mrs potential test-out Mr Trench - in addition to him satisfying the UK immigration authorities must prove a certain level of English



The test must be taken in the ladies home country at an approved centre.

I remember my Wife - having been in the UK a year - failing such a test ( she didn't need to be tested as she came in via an EU route ) and the tears and knocking of confidence

This is not something you want your partner to experience on their own

[Blighty]

To explain to others - just to get in to the UK - Mrs potential test-out Mr Trench - in addition to him satisfying the UK immigration authorities must prove a certain level of English

Only TC knows the lady's level of English! My wife attended an English course in Ukraine to re-learn English. She is already approaching the B1 level, and spends at least an hour each day learning new words and improving her pronunciation. Remember these Life Skills tests only examine speaking and listening skills. I chose the British Council IELTS test as there are many examples on Youtube.

Her English was coming along quite nicely when in Cyprus, I would say between basic and intermediate.

Okay TC, this puts Miss Kherson's English at between A2 and B1, which means the A1 test should not be a problem if she is properly prepared for it using Youtube videos.

This is why I used the term "negativity" rather than "pragmatism"!

[msmob]

Only TC knows the lady's level of English!

Quite, I simply remember his 'negativity' in this respect

My Wife was volunteering in a charity shop and was becoming quite competent - but she got nervous in the listening part as she simply couldn't understand the ladies accent !

A year later she had the equiv of and Higher Nat. Dip ( level 5) tertiary qualification

I 'get' these hurdles - but they aren't perfect and my 'negativity'  comes from watching her distressed when there was only pride at stake - not the right to come in

It must be a living hell for non EU, non ( reasonable ) English speakers , now

[Trenchcoat]

There is a long Tripadvisor thread on Ukrainians failing to get UK Visitor visas ...

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g294473-i3662-k10096309-o40-British_visas_For_Ukrainian_citizens-Ukraine.html

Useful ammunition for you!

Cheers Blighty, most apprieciate it it's worth a shot as she certainty won't believe me. I think perhaps she is more single minded than I am, lol. Will depend on how things go this month though and if she's a bit more mature now that she's a year older, one can hope

[Trenchcoat]

I honestly prefer the company of locals of Russian speakers - more dinner parties than piss ups in sports bars

Where you no doubt turn a pithy phrase

Funny I saw no sports bars in Paphos. To be honest though I've seen the way whole families (& probably close friends/families) go out and dine around a big table in Ukraine and it truely is a marvelous sight The daughters are always nicely dressed all wearing dresses, usually pretty looking and we'll brought up, you can kind of tell they are being raised with the idea if being very marriageable. This wasn't in the concrete blocks I saw this but the nicer city centres so I wouldn't know about our there but I guess the women are all competing back there.

[Nightwish]

Trench?

are you not supposed to be in Poland/Ukraine now?
"Early June" that's would be about.. NOW

[Trenchcoat]

Trench?

are you not supposed to be in Poland/Ukraine now?
"Early June" that's would be about.. NOW

Maybe

[msmob]

Funny I saw no sports bars in Paphos.

Then - as usual - I can only wonder if you've BEEN to the places you claim

IF you are foolish enough to 'doubt me' - suggest Googling 'Sports Bars in Paphos' .....

Clue..  I might know as I provided much of the kit to receive SAT TV in such bars ...Now, many ( most) use naughty internet feeds ..



 

[Trenchcoat]

Case in point the last girl I was with was 25 when we met. She stayed off the website from after we agreed to meet up to near the end of our second week together. From then on and thereafter she was hitting the online dating site again. I asked her to stop she said she wouldn't as time was running out for her. This surprised me her being in her mid twenties but apparently it is true by mid twenties if a girl is not married things are not looking good for her by the time she is thirty they say put a cross through her - i.e she is unlikely ever to get married unless she does international dating that is.

I know the girl I was with will almost certainly not find another guy. Her want for clothes blinds her as to why she fails with guys. So unless her attitude changes she will scare them all away. So by leaving it a bit my hand only gets stronger there

[msmob]

Case in point the last girl I was with was 25 when we met. She stayed off the website from after we agreed to meet up to near the end of our second week together. From then on and thereafter she was hitting the online dating site again. I asked her to stop

"You asked her to stop"...     Trench - did it ever cross your mind that that ship had sailed and you were DEFO not on board or the Captain ?

 she said she wouldn't as time was running out for her. This surprised me her being in her mid twenties but apparently it is true by mid twenties if a girl is not married things are not looking good for her by the time she is thirty they say put a cross through her - i.e she is unlikely ever to get married unless she does international dating that is.

Trench, I know SO many FSU ladies who became single - often their their choice - and haven't re-married - they get plenty of offers.  You are talking tripe.

I know the girl I was with will almost certainly not find another guy. Her want for clothes blinds her as to why she fails with guys. So unless her attitude changes she will scare them all away.

Possibly, you put her off western guys ? ...  It would be interesting to hear her side of the story ! ..

So by leaving it a bit my hand only gets stronger there

The scary thing is you aren't kidding - you BELIEVE your 'joke'.. 

By staying away - you have more time to 'educate' us here and the ladies are safer

[Trenchcoat]

"You asked her to stop"...     Trench - did it ever cross your mind that that ship had sailed and you were DEFO not on board or the Captain ?

Trench, I know SO many FSU ladies who became single - often their their choice - and haven't re-married - they get plenty of offers.  You are talking tripe.


Possibly, you put her off western guys ? ...  It would be interesting to hear her side of the story ! ..



The scary thing is you aren't kidding - you BELIEVE your 'joke'.. 

By staying away - you have more time to 'educate' us here and the ladies are safer

It was because she was peed off because it was not being done her way. More specifically I'm now pretty sure she thought I was messing her around or using her for sex/bit on the side. In the FSU many women once they hit mid twenties and there after just get used by local guys for sex. She's just seeing it how it is from where she lives not from where I live I now believe. I don't think she has a clue what things are like in the UK western world.

Well she never married in the first place so there would be no remarriage. Besides I think a lot of women that aren't married say that they aren't bothered to save face. Either that or they were badly abused and so have no wish to risk repeating the situation. Getting good at this now, aren't I

[Blighty]

I know the girl I was with will almost certainly not find another guy. Her want for clothes blinds her as to why she fails with guys. So unless her attitude changes she will scare them all away. So by leaving it a bit my hand only gets stronger there

Did you insist that she wear dresses rather than trousers? If so, this would have triggered her 'want' for clothes to meet your requirements. My observation is that most Ukrainian women prefer to wear trousers in their everyday life, and do not expect men to buy them multiple outfits during a shopping expedition.

[msmob]

It was because she was peed off because it was not being done her way. More specifically I'm now pretty sure she thought I was messing her around or using her for sex/bit on the side. In the FSU many women once they hit mid twenties and there after just get used by local guys for sex. She's just seeing it how it is from where she lives not from where I live I now believe. I don't think she has a clue what things are like in the UK western world.

You REALLY don't have a scoobdie do about women - from ANYWHERE, Trench .. 

IF she was putting it out at all, she must have been in to you - or you promised her stuff you couldn't deliver - 'coz by your on admission she spending the later days of your time together seeking someone else 

Well she never married in the first place so there would be no remarriage. Besides I think a lot of women that aren't married say that they aren't bothered to save face. Either that or they were badly abused and so have no wish to risk repeating the situation. Getting good at this now, aren't I

Nope, you aren't even good at arithmetic...Do you seriously think a 25 year old ( you mentioned 30 or ever ) is worried about being left on the shelf ? 

An example I'd give you is SC.  She has NEVER married ... Now she's living in her 6th decade ...  Do you think she was short of suitors ?



[Sorry BdHvA]

[Trenchcoat]

You REALLY don't have a scoobdie do about women - from ANYWHERE, Trench .. 

IF she was putting it out at all, she must have been in to you - or you promised her stuff you couldn't deliver - 'coz by your on admission she spending the later days of your time together seeking someone else 



Nope, you aren't even good at arithmetic...Do you seriously think a 25 year old ( you mentioned 30 or ever ) is worried about being left on the shelf ? 

An example I'd give you is SC.  She has NEVER married ... Now she's living in her 6th decade ...  Do you think she was short of suitors ?



[Sorry BdHvA]

Did she do that pose especially for me! I'm guessing then you guys are still upset about the cat thing.

Well it's been written by quite a few other people that women feel left on the shelf as they get to those sort of ages. Some are more bothered no doubt than others, there are no doubt exceptions. I doubt though it is complete BS if it's come up in many sources. After all apart from most FSW bring brought up to want children there is then the practicality that men earn more and the support network may be needed if from a small family - so if the lady finds herself out of work, ill, etc there is someone there to help her.

The only thing I didn't deliver on with girl is her coming to see me in the UK next. She said I promised her, well I agreed yes but I wasn't intending to make a cast iron promise. I would have delivered if it were possible and only later after I became more aware that it was not just a hard task but virtually impossible that I had no option other than to tell her.

I bought her pretty much what she wanted, and only objected here or there to stop it getting ridiculous. I agreed to go on holiday with her so I delivered on that promise. She asked me to go on holiday with her mud way through our week in Kiev. Though of course I was paying. It was all a bit of a strange experience since I think our two cultures have differences that aren't always obvious and sometimes it's easy to underestimate how much thus can come out in a relationship without really noticing.

[msmob]

Did she do that pose especially for me! I'm guessing then you guys are still upset about the cat thing.

'The Cat thing' - was Trench showing empathy - when a kitten was run over by it's owner - a friend of Sveta's - Trench responded to my referring to the sadness of all present - by telling us he'd have thrown it over the fence - or something similar...

No, the pose was for me ...and her pleasure ... for when we are old .... It is certainly useful in that this is an arse from which an 'utterance' might get my attention ... You should try to stop talking out of yours and thinking, first !

Well it's been written by quite a few other people that women feel left on the shelf as they get to those sort of ages. Some are more bothered no doubt than others, there are no doubt exceptions. I doubt though it is complete BS if it's come up in many sources. After all apart from most FSW bring brought up to want children there is then the practicality that men earn more and the support network may be needed if from a small family - so if the lady finds herself out of work, ill, etc there is someone there to help her.

I've read plenty of BS about FSU W from those who tend NOT to live with one or go there often enough...

If a lass is half good looking and has a brain - they are in demand ... the issue is finding a guy to match  ..and that applies in the UK

Trench, guys who can pull in the UK - can pull in the FSU ... those that can't here - will have 'issues' ANYWHERE...

The only thing I didn't deliver on with girl is her coming to see me in the UK next. She said I promised her, well I agreed yes but I wasn't intending to make a cast iron promise. I would have delivered if it were possible and only later after I became more aware that it was not just a hard task but virtually impossible that I had no option other than to tell her.

You were told this BEFORE you went on your jaunt to Cyprus ... you misled her ... yet I see you are still suggesting that she 'may have matured', today ... as if you stand some chance with her ..


You would be better proving you have the right to an Irish passport and telling her you can live in Oirland - freely crossing to N.Ireland

I bought her pretty much what she wanted, and only objected here or there to stop it getting ridiculous. I agreed to go on holiday with her so I delivered on that promise. She asked me to go on holiday with her mud way through our week in Kiev. Though of course I was paying. It was all a bit of a strange experience since I think our two cultures have differences that aren't always obvious and sometimes it's easy to underestimate how much thus can come out in a relationship without really noticing.

Matey, you still don't get that FSU W are past masters at suggesting " the man pays" ...