Trench's Questions and Philosophies

[Trenchcoat]

And this is why you will fail.



This has been debated ad nauseum on the forum.


I've been to US cities, and young women are just as thin as in Ukraine.  Lots of AM have stated the same.  UW tend to turn out better in public.

Why? because I want to be careful with money? as should any responsible person.

There are plenty of statistics that back up my view and that of many others that there are a lot more fatter people in the UK & US and women stand out specifically for it.

When I was in Krakow I noticed all the American girls were the fat ones with the thick thighs. Polish girls had not just a different look in clothing but were always universally thin. Roosh had noticed how thin Polish girls were too (and Ukraine too). Or are you going to tell me only the fat American girls go away on holiday, lol.

I know in a previous discussion on this one US member told us how once most of the girks in middle school used to be normal sized had now become most were fat with the normal sized girls as the exception.

[Boethius]

I wasn't referring to money at all.


I have been to the US, numerous times.  Have you?  Not all regions are full of fat women. 

[John Gaunt]

Why? because I want to be careful with money? as should any responsible person.

There are plenty of statistics that back up my view and that of many others that there are a lot more fatter people in the UK & US and women stand out specifically for it.

When I was in Krakow I noticed all the American girls were the fat ones with the thick thighs. Polish girls had not just a different look in clothing but were always universally thin. Roosh had noticed how thin Polish girls were too (and Ukraine too). Or are you going to tell me only the fat American girls go away on holiday, lol.

I know in a previous discussion on this one US member told us how once most of the girks in middle school used to be normal sized had now become most were fat with the normal sized girls as the exception.

It’s not about being careful with money although in that respect Scrooge could take lessons from you.
It’s about your attitude.....

[Bee Farmer]

unfortunately it had a mini bar and she had the annoying habit of instead of finishing her present bottle of opening a new one and leaving the other, or opening one just to taste what it was like - er, that all costs my dear. I think she got the message after I spoke to her about it as it was just peeing my money away needlessly again.

Trench, why didn't you just drink free tapwater instead of buying mineral water or whatever?

Just out of curiosity, how much money do you 'waste?'  How much have you blown on pursuing Ukrainian women, with nothing to show for it?  A heck of a lot more than the price of a few bottles of water.  Or is it that you believe it is your money to spend frivolously, but it's not ok for the woman to spend money foolishly?

Ukrainian women are definitely thinner overall than UK chicks. They will definitely  be way thinner than most US chicks no contest.

I attend an upscale farmers market regularly.  It's in an affluent neighborhood of a city with well over a half million people.  There's maybe 60 vendors there, with many certified organic.  The market regularly pulls 2500-3000 customers, and probably 75% being women.  Shoppers range from college kids to people in their 70's, although the majority are the 25-50 age range.
Most of the ladies are physically fit.  To be honest, as a whole I would say they are thinner than the girls I saw in Odessa.  You will see a few women at the market who are a little chubby or soft, but you don't see obesity.  You see a lot of yoga pants at the market.  You don't see as much makeup or mini skirts as you see in Ukraine.

Now if you go to WalMart, you see an entirely different cross section of society.  Attractive girls are uncommon, and overweight or obese is the norm there.

I STILL moved out and ultimately divorced her as it was the RIGHT thing to do for my main obligation ... the kids we created ...  I didn't run off and find another lady - re-marrying 5 years later

Msmob, and 5 years later makes it ok?  You agreed to never have another relationship as long as your original wife was still alive.

You DO NOT understand that Divorce is on the statue of most nations and WHY ? 

Do you not understand that divorce courts are courts of equity?  Their jurisdiction is limited to division of assets and financial matters.  They have no jurisdiction over moral vows, and they can not relieve you of moral obligations you have agreed to.

I can and DO ...    Your mistake is telling others who have worn the unfortunate t-shirt where they went 'wrong' and that they should have 'endured'

I'm not saying you should have endured.  Read what I write, instead of what you want to hear.  It is best that folks work together for a happy marriage.  I understand that sadly, sometimes divorce is the least worst option.

I am saying where people go wrong is having relationships with other people while the person they married is still alive. (and not getting to know someone prior to marriage.)

You 'got' my point - you are just distancing yourself !  He chose Mike Pence as his running mate as he was the polar opposite and yet I fear if 'Trampu' had to go - we'd get this holier than thou, intolerant, 'Christian' ..SCARY

No, I don't get your point, as Trump and Pence don't speak for me and have nothing to do with the values I have in my life.

You are an UTTER idiot ...   I was happy and relieved when the mother of my kids recently remarried

Why?  So you could rationalize that you weren't so bad by breaking your vow if she did also?  Two wrongs don't make a right.

Given what you post, your conclusions from your 'observing people' - I can only conclude you live in a bubble ...  As already pointed out - you simply cannot know how some people change when behind closed doors

Everyone lives in their own little world, a bubble of sorts.  I have seen people change for the better behind doors, and I have seen people change for the worst.  it is foolish to assume that you know my experiences.

Have you been married or had kids ....  so you have NO idea about what you are talking about .... people DO change ...I haven't ...but I saw my partner show sides to her character that she had kept WELL hidden

No, I have not been married, but I have parents who married, relatives who married, friend's parents who married, friends and acquaintances who have married.  Trust me, I have been exposed to many marriages.

You do realize how laughable your comment is, don't you?  You didn't change, but everyone else changes...and they have sides to their character they keep well hidden.  They didn't change either. (Caveat: I have seen people change after a stroke.)  You want to believe they changed, because you don't want to admit that you never really got to know them.

LOVE is a feeling that you want to share everything - with your partner ...  Most people enter marriage with this attitude..they aren't worried about failing - see no reason why it would fail 

Bollox.  Most people do have second thoughts before getting married.  That's normal, even when they are deeply in love and know each other well.

If you never had second thoughts, and jumped into marriage with a pie-in-the-sky attitude, no wonder you had a rude awakening, and rightfully so.

My interpretation of your wack job beliefs is that one HAD to remain single, if splitting  ))))

That is what you agreed to.  You agreed that you would never have a relationship with anyone else, no matter what, as long as the person you married is still alive.

Once more, I'll remind you that Divorce is  permitted - and for good reason - in most nations

Divorce only relieves a person of their financial obligations (and benefits).  It does not address the irrevocable moral obligations a person knowingly and voluntarily agreed to.

What ?! ... If I had been unfaithful - you might have a point ... Only an idiot like you would regard having a relationship with someone else whilst your divorced ex-partner is remarried a 'sin'

I have no idea what you are jabbering about regarding an ex-partner being remarried, or how that is relevant to anything.

You are being unfaithful, if you have a relationship with someone else if your divorced partner is still alive.

If that makes me an idiot, then I am in good company as Jesus Christ said the same thing.  (Strangely, most folks don't consider Jesus to be an idiot, even people who don't practice Christianity.)

My father commuted between counties and ultimately my Mum agreed to move across the Irish Sea..  I believed the way he worked to keep his family sent him to an early grave... so. believe me I know about 'sacrifice'

My Mum, could and should have agreed to move earlier ..again your 'theories' don't hold up in practice

I know lots of people who commute between counties.  Maybe your counties are larger than our counties.

Was he forced to do that?  Did someone hold a gun to his head and make him go?  Did someone hold a gun to his head and deny him the opportunity to work locally?  Or were these choices he voluntarily made?

Newsflash :  Most Americans are descended from Europeans and Europeans come in many favours .... Many Americans think they are 'Irish' - having had - some generations ago - Irish ancestors

Many Western Europeans identify more closely with Americans than Southern or Eastern Europeans ... You don't appear to be well-travelled - if you read and believe twaddle like that

Newsflash: personal attitudes regarding personal freedom differ across the pond.  That's why those people left Europe.

Third time, Divorce is on the statute of America, yes ?

Only to the degree that it addresses the division of assets and financial matters.  The courts lack jurisdiction to address any matters of moral obligations, and can not relieve someone of moral vows they have agreed to, especially irrevocable vows.

Divorce in my country means a couple that do not agree to end the marriage cannot divorce for FIVE years...  *I* find that expecting one partner who has decided it's over to change their mind is someone unrealistic...  I've been on both sides of the situation ... Five years is prob too long.

Considering that you are not permitted to have another relationship, I think 5 years is irrelevant.

In America, if a guy wants to marry a foreign girl, he must agree to financially support her for 10 years. 

but where we differ is that I can see it is utterly ridiculous to expect a couple to remain in a marriage that is bad - or live out their lives 'single' - as some sort of 'punishment' for 'breaking your vows' ..

How is keeping an agreement you voluntarily and freely made "utterly ridiculous?"  You agreed to that punishment.  It didn't seem utterly ridiculous when you agreed to it.

If I borrow a bunch of money putting up collateral, and after I spend it I decide it didn't give me the life I was hoping for, is it utterly ridiculous if I forfeit my collateral?  Having relationships with anyone else is the collateral you put up when you got married.

If you have had a LTR then don't you find your desire for a pure virgin somewhat pompous....?  Or did you live for 4.5 years with a woman without sexual intercourse ?

Where have I said that I desired a pure virgin?  I have said that is the ideal, and marriages with a virgin bride have the lowest divorce rates.

I did not live with the girl I was in a 4.5 year relationship with.  I lived on my own, and she lived with her mom.
I have never lived with a girl in a relationship. 
A lot of folks I know believe that if you are not yet willing to put a ring on her finger, you shouldn't move in together. 

I speak from my circumstances and have been a step-dad to someone else's son ...   I would not say he has suffered from his parents divorce and living with me )))

There are exceptions, but when taken in aggregate, kids in step-parent homes don't do as well as kids with both biological parents.

I readily admit I broke my marital vows....  I did the RIGHT thing

No, the right thing is not breaking your vows.

Good boy, but how id that relevant ?

You asked if I ever had any experience caring with elderly or infirm people...

There is no one reason for marital breakdowns ...and my reason was what was best for my Kids...

No, selfishness is the only reason for divorce.  It manifests itself in many ways, but the root is always selfishness.

Lastly, could you learn to quote to show to whom you are responding to ?   

Could you learn to read and remember who says what?

You seem to want to be seen as a 'good chap'

Appearances must be deceiving you then.  I could care less how I am seen.  Shallow folks worry about stuff like that. 
I'd rather worry about just being a good guy, and not worry about how others see me.

The problem with all this death "til death do you part" issue is, I'm not religious and identify as an atheist.

You don't have to be religious to do what you say you will do.

Honestly I haven't been to a wedding in the last 15 years that mentioned "til death do you part",

Did they use wedding rings, which have no ending, to symbolize that the agreement is forever?

If I was to identify with anything spiritual it would be Buddhism.....

Ah, life is suffering.  You just have to find the middle path that makes it all worthwhile.  The secret is not to avoid the suffering, but to add an opposite measure of blessings to balance it all out.  You're not supposed to divorce, you just need to make the best of the situation and bring good into it.

Why? because I want to be careful with money? as should any responsible person.

No, because you are fixated on money, and place it as more important than the relationship.

There are plenty of statistics that back up my view and that of many others that there are a lot more fatter people in the UK & US and women stand out specifically for it.

53% of Ukrainians are overweight, and 20% are obese.

320 million Americans.  If roughly half are women, that's 160 million women.  2/3 of Americans are overweight or obese, meaning 53 million women are physically fit.
There are 44 million people in Ukraine, and assuming half of them are women, that means there are almost 2.5 times as many physically fit women in America as all the women in Ukraine.

Also, you need to keep in mind that obesity is distributed unequally across racial groups in the US.  Blacks are 1.5 times as likely to be obese as whites, and 82% of blacks are overweight or obese.  American Indians are almost as obese as blacks.  American Asian obesity rates are about 1/3 the rate of whites.  Hispanics and Mexican Americans have higher rates of obesity than whites.

Also, keep in mind that being fat or fit tends to run in families.  Some families learn good eating habits, and some don't.  Fat people tend to marry fat, and thin tend to marry thin.  People tend to associate and socialize with others of similar social status, and obese tend to hang around with obese, and fit folks tend to hang around other fit people.  There are circles that are almost all fat, and there are groups of people who are almost all fit.
The social groups you associate with will affect whether you are seeing fit women, or obese.  If you go to farmers markets, craft shows (especially ones with higher quality goods), and fitness centers, you will meet a lot more fit women.  If you go to a food pantry, or (Heaven forbid) go to WalMart on a weekend night or the first of the month after welfare checks come, you will see an endless wall of obesity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

[msmob]

Msmob, and 5 years later makes it ok?  You agreed to never have another relationship as long as your original wife was still alive.

...and I readily admit to breaking my vows and DO NOT regret my decision - it was made on behalf of my kids ... I have discussed this v.point with far smarter Men of God than you ...

I note you STILL can't manage to attribute quotes.. 

May be you hope to confuse of bore folks to death ?

Do you not understand that divorce courts are courts of equity?  Their jurisdiction is limited to division of assets and financial matters.  They have no jurisdiction over moral vows, and they can not relieve you of moral obligations you have agreed to.

Au contraire, If you have family, part of a divorce in the UK is that the Family Court must agree that visitation and child support are set in stone. Lest either partner might forget their obligations.

I'm not saying you should have endured.  Read what I write, instead of what you want to hear.  It is best that folks work together for a happy marriage.  I understand that sadly, sometimes divorce is the least worst option.

You are the second person to 'suggest' I didn't read what was written - when it is all too easy to point out that is is the author that has the issue. Before you respond  - you might like to take a breath and read the bollox you have written ..

You are now changing your stance. Perhaps, you realise your viewpoints aren't being well-received ... ?  Should that matter to you ?

No, I don't get your point, as Trump and Pence don't speak for me and have nothing to do with the values I have in my life.

Oh, I'm sure 'Trampu' doesn't - but I recognise Pence in so much of what you write..

How do you interpret same sex relationships ?

it is foolish to assume that you know my experiences.

Based on your posts - not foolish at all

No, I have not been married, but I have parents who married, relatives who married, friend's parents who married, friends and acquaintances who have married.  Trust me, I have been exposed to many marriages.

Ah, so you slept with your parents into adult-hood and were party to their private discussions ? ...

You do realize how laughable your comment is, don't you?

Possibly, to you ...   I didn't change, but I have become sl.wiser

Bollox.  Most people do have second thoughts before getting married.  That's normal, even when they are deeply in love and know each other well.

Given you haven't been married - you base this on, what ? I was entirely confident we'd survive any crisis - didn't have the sl.doubt

If you never had second thoughts, and jumped into marriage with a pie-in-the-sky attitude, no wonder you had a rude awakening, and rightfully so.

Your mistake is so ASSuming ...  I was 30 - had done many things as a single guy and was quite ready to 'settle down' and be a hubbie and Dad ....   

That is what you agreed to.  You agreed that you would never have a relationship with anyone else, no matter what, as long as the person you married is still alive.

Indeed - I keep reminding you, I accept I broke my marital vows - and it was the right thing to do - it wasn't a spur of the moment decision and we attended counselling - I sought the advice of the very man that married us

Divorce only relieves a person of their financial obligations (and benefits).  It does not address the irrevocable moral obligations a person knowingly and voluntarily agreed to.

)

There's an example of a guy that REALLY needs to read - before he posts

Divorce can set a higher burden of financial commitment - including fees - than one would have encountered...  it certainly did , in my case ....  What planet on you on ? Posting such guff.

I have no idea what you are jabbering about regarding an ex-partner being remarried, or how that is relevant to anything.

You are being unfaithful, if you have a relationship with someone else if your divorced partner is still alive.

That is your -IMHO wacko -opinion ...  I married a semi-practising Roman Catholic - I'm a Prod - and she remarried ...   I am pleased if she can find happiness with another. 

Thank GOD .... that Ireland is now showing the way and the RC Church is being spurned by young people

If that makes me an idiot, then I am in good company as Jesus Christ said the same thing.  (Strangely, most folks don't consider Jesus to be an idiot, even people who don't practice Christianity.)

Call me a heretic - not that I'd care, but his 'word' was written and translated and 'interpreted' by others - causing schisms and even wars throughout the ages amongst Christians - let alone Islam and it's interpretations.

I know lots of people who commute between counties.  Maybe your counties are larger than our counties.

My apologies, I would have thought it clear I meant COUNTRIES...involving flying - living apart from the family

Was he forced to do that?  Did someone hold a gun to his head and make him go?  Did someone hold a gun to his head and deny him the opportunity to work locally?  Or were these choices he voluntarily made?

V.Simple - we had a 'little thing' called  'The Troubles' which destroyed confidence in firms staying located in N.Ireland and he had a choice to relocate to S.England or lose his job - with little chance of finding another of commensurate reward..

Newsflash: personal attitudes regarding personal freedom differ across the pond.  That's why those people left Europe.

For a VERY small minority - most were ECONOMIC migrants ..only an idiot persist with a stance when clearly in the wrong ..  Ireland and the UK have traditionally had strong ties with the US / Canada based on commonality of viewpoints - esp. in times of war.

Only to the degree that it addresses the division of assets and financial matters.  The courts lack jurisdiction to address any matters of moral obligations, and can not relieve someone of moral vows they have agreed to, especially irrevocable vows.

Already covered - patent nonsense - you a zero clue of how such matters are dealt with in the UK..

Considering that you are not permitted to have another relationship, I think 5 years is irrelevant.

'Not Permitted' by WHO ?  My marriage is respected by the State AND my Church

In America, if a guy wants to marry a foreign girl, he must agree to financially support her for 10 years. 

Who are you responding to - or are you injecting more irrelevant matters to your religious beliefs that extend to suggesting others are adulterers ?  )   'Thanks' - but I understand the obligations / risks when asking someone to leave their nation to be with me ..

How is keeping an agreement you voluntarily and freely made "utterly ridiculous?"  You agreed to that punishment.  It didn't seem utterly ridiculous when you agreed to it.

WHO is 'punishing' me ... ?

If I borrow a bunch of money putting up collateral, and after I spend it I decide it didn't give me the life I was hoping for, is it utterly ridiculous if I forfeit my collateral?  Having relationships with anyone else is the collateral you put up when you got married.

According you your beliefs ...  !

Where have I said that I desired a pure virgin?  I have said that is the ideal, and marriages with a virgin bride have the lowest divorce rates.

I see b all difference in part one of your 'explanation' - not forgetting you claim to have had an LTR - you didn't let us know if you were sexually active .... May be you realise how ironic your desire is.  ))

I did not live with the girl I was in a 4.5 year relationship with.  I lived on my own, and she lived with her mom.
I have never lived with a girl in a relationship. 

Hmm, you still duck the Q on our minds ... )) Whilst it is none of our business - your 'pompousness' - raises the obvious Q

A lot of folks I know believe that if you are not yet willing to put a ring on her finger, you shouldn't move in together. 

Fine, their decision - we are discussing divorce/ re-marriage and YOUR - possible - double stds / 'ideals'

There are exceptions, but when taken in aggregate, kids in step-parent homes don't do as well as kids with both biological parents.

)))

My Daughter got a first class Hons degree and my Step-son the same ...  'funny' that...

No, the right thing is not breaking your vows.

Says - you - who hasn't worn the t-shirt....   

You asked if I ever had any experience caring with elderly or infirm people...

The issue was commitment to family  - you remember you asked ME to READ more carefully !

No, selfishness is the only reason for divorce.  It manifests itself in many ways, but the root is always selfishness.

I am indeed giving you too much time - arguing with an idiot ...  You had a reasoned explanation - you,clearly - did not bother to read or your indoctrination renders your helpless 

Could you learn to read and remember who says what?

I might - but I'm older (!) and is it SO hard to use the default code that makes it CLEAR to whom you are responding ...Are you LAZY?

Appearances must be deceiving you then.  I could care less how I am seen.  Shallow folks worry about stuff like that. 
I'd rather worry about just being a good guy, and not worry about how others see me.

There is nothing about you that 'deceives' ... you believe what you wish and can't  /won't persuade many to change...   You might THINK you're a good guy ... 'Happy' for you ... 

You don't have to be religious to do what you say you will do.

I know ... but I think you are still referring to marriage  vows? ...

Did they use wedding rings, which have no ending, to symbolize that the agreement is forever?

So, now you MUST be referring to someone else's  response... You cannot / will not see how this likely means no-one will bother to try to understand your viewpoint ?

I threw my wedding ring in a lake

[Bee Farmer]

...and I readily admit to breaking my vows and DO NOT regret my decision - it was made on behalf of my kids ... I have discussed this v.point with far smarter Men of God than you ...

I do not claim to be a "Man of God."

I note you STILL can't manage to attribute quotes..

May be you hope to confuse of bore folks to death ?

Using the reply with quote is a nightmare when you are replying to multiple points, or multiple people. 

Look at it this way.  It's a brain exercise for old, senile people to help them fight off the effects of aging.

Au contraire, If you have family, part of a divorce in the UK is that the Family Court must agree that visitation and child support are set in stone. Lest either partner might forget their obligations.

And all that pertains to division of property, which falls under equity.

You had witnesses at your wedding whose job is to remind you of your obligations, should you ever shirk your marital obligations.

You are now changing your stance. Perhaps, you realise your viewpoints aren't being well-received ... ?  Should that matter to you ?

I have not changed my stance. 
I believe it is best if couples choose a partner wisely, work through problems, and remain loving and true their whole lives.  I believe that it is never wrong to honor your commitment and try to make the best of a less than ideal situation.
I do believe that sometimes, divorce is the least worst option, but even then, it is bad and has horrible consequences, especially on children.
I don't believe that divorced people should pursue a relationship with someone else until after their original spouse has died.  That is the agreement they made, and it is honorable to keep their word.

No, it does not matter to me if my viewpoints are not well received.  Why should that matter to me?  As Orwell said, "In a time of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act."

How do you interpret same sex relationships ?

Interpret?  You mean, what is my opinion of them?

It's not my cup of tea, so I don't live my life that way.  I personally disagree with it, but as long as it doesn't infringe upon my rights, it is between them and their God.

I also don't believe the government should be involved in any marriage.  Government should not be the 3rd partner in a marriage.  Two partners are enough.

Ah, so you slept with your parents into adult-hood and were party to their private discussions ? ...

No, I did not sleep with my parents.  Yes, I have been privy to many of their private discussions, and private discussions of other couples too.

Possibly, to you ...   I didn't change, but I have become sl.wiser

We are too soon old, and too late wise.

Given you haven't been married - you base this on, what ? I was entirely confident we'd survive any crisis - didn't have the sl.doubt

I have had many discussions with married people.  You're the first I know of who says they never had second thoughts about if they were making the right choice.

If you don't have second thoughts, something is wrong with you.

Your mistake is so ASSuming ...  I was 30 - had done many things as a single guy and was quite ready to 'settle down' and be a hubbie and Dad ....

That's only half of the equation.  You also have to choose a partner wisely, and not the first one who is willing to get hitched.

Indeed - I keep reminding you, I accept I broke my marital vows - and it was the right thing to do - it wasn't a spur of the moment decision and we attended counselling - I sought the advice of the very man that married us

Which marital vows do you admit breaking?

Jesus said, "Go and sin no more."  If you make a mistake, you are supposed to stop the bad behavior.  If you continue a new relationship that breaks your marital vow, then you believe you are above the law, and you should not be held accountable for your actions.

There's an example of a guy that REALLY needs to read - before he posts

Divorce can set a higher burden of financial commitment - including fees - than one would have encountered...  it certainly did , in my case ....  What planet on you on ? Posting such guff.

Planet Earth.

When you got married, you had people there to witness the marriage.  It is their responsibility to provide accountability to make sure you honor your commitment.  You not only have to answer to your spouse, you have to answer to everyone in society if you get out of line.

What planet are you on, where you don't believe in responsibility and accountability?

That is your -IMHO wacko -opinion ...  I married a semi-practising Roman Catholic - I'm a Prod - and she remarried ...   I am pleased if she can find happiness with another. 

What does religious denomination matter?  How is that relevant?

Happiness is not what gives life meaning.

Thank GOD .... that Ireland is now showing the way and the RC Church is being spurned by young people

Sounds like you harbor some resentment towards the Roman Catholic Church.

Call me a heretic - not that I'd care, but his 'word' was written and translated and 'interpreted' by others - causing schisms and even wars throughout the ages amongst Christians - let alone Islam and it's interpretations.

To be honest, most of the divisions and wars have been caused by disagreements about people interpreting and preaching, and not about Jesus per se.

As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ.  I do not like your Christians.  They are so unlike your Christ."

Followers of Islam are descendants of Ishmael.  Ishmael (and descendants) were to be at odds with the house of Isaac.  That has nothing to do with interpretations.

My apologies, I would have thought it clear I meant COUNTRIES...involving flying - living apart from the family

That makes little difference.  Countries in Europe are similar to US states.
I know people who have worked out of state, and are home on weekends.  They make the marriage work.

V.Simple - we had a 'little thing' called  'The Troubles' which destroyed confidence in firms staying located in N.Ireland and he had a choice to relocate to S.England or lose his job - with little chance of finding another of commensurate reward.

When facing tough decisions, I encourage people to ask themselves 3 questions.  What do I have to gain? What do I have to lose?  What are my alternatives?  The 3rd questions is one many folks neglect to fully examine.

Sometimes taking a pay cut and being closer to home is better.  You have to weigh your options.  He could also have started his own business.  He didn't have to move, as he had other options.

For a VERY small minority - most were ECONOMIC migrants ..only an idiot persist with a stance when clearly in the wrong ..  Ireland and the UK have traditionally had strong ties with the US / Canada based on commonality of viewpoints - esp. in times of war.

No, there are large differences.  People in America embraced individualism, and the UK embraced collectivism.  (Part of why you bring up Trump and Pence in your arguments with me.)

Please remind me again of the strong ties the UK had with the US during the Revolutionary War, or the War of 1812, or even the French and Indian War.

Already covered - patent nonsense - you a zero clue of how such matters are dealt with in the UK..

Do you have witnesses at weddings in the UK?  What is their function and duty, and how do the courts deal with witnesses during divorce proceedings? 

'Not Permitted' by WHO ?  My marriage is respected by the State AND my Church

It is not permitted by the irrevocable oath you made, and bound by your honor and integrity.  It is not permitted by the witnesses either, as all who know of the marriage are to hold you accountable. 

    In America, if a guy wants to marry a foreign girl, he must agree to financially support her for 10 years. 


Who are you responding to - or are you injecting more irrelevant matters to your religious beliefs that extend to suggesting others are adulterers ?  )   'Thanks' - but I understand the obligations / risks when asking someone to leave their nation to be with me ..

You were whining and blathering about, complaining about having to wait the 5 years for a divorce.  I was pointing out that in America, you have 10 years of financial obligations.

WHO is 'punishing' me ... ?

Society is to punish you through social pressure.  You are also to accept and impose the penalty on yourself.  That is what you agreed to.  If you do not, you lose all integrity and honor, and is evidence that no one can ever trust you in any matter.

    If I borrow a bunch of money putting up collateral, and after I spend it I decide it didn't give me the life I was hoping for, is it utterly ridiculous if I forfeit my collateral?  Having relationships with anyone else is the collateral you put up when you got married.


According you your beliefs ...  !

Not just my beliefs.  Those were the beliefs you claimed when you got married.  Now you are trying to say that you didn't mean what you said.

    Where have I said that I desired a pure virgin?  I have said that is the ideal, and marriages with a virgin bride have the lowest divorce rates.


I see b all difference in part one of your 'explanation' - not forgetting you claim to have had an LTR - you didn't let us know if you were sexually active .... May be you realise how ironic your desire is.  ))

I have no idea what the "b" is about.  You seem to like using uncommon abbreviations for words.

It was none of your business if I was sexually intimate with the girl.  Personally, I find it rather amusing how many people assume I was.  It speaks volumes about their own character, as their assumption is a projection of their own values on me.

I find no irony in the quality or character of the kind of lady I would like to get married to.

Hmm, you still duck the Q on our minds ... )) Whilst it is none of our business - your 'pompousness' - raises the obvious Q

Have you considered that I have not answered in order to see if people will think the best, or if they will think the worst of me?  How people view the world is an insight into how they view themselves.

And to be honest, I suspect there are few here who could even understand the dynamics of building a relationship while abstaining from sex.  It seems to be a common focus.

we are discussing divorce/ re-marriage and YOUR - possible - double stds / 'ideals'

I'm not aware of any double standards.  I am not perfect and I do not seek perfection.  I seek no more than what I offer.  That creates no double standard.

My Daughter got a first class Hons degree and my Step-son the same ...  'funny' that...

And those things mean nothing, and are completely irrelevant to how well they are psychologically and emotionally.  You can get good grades and still be an absolute mess inside.

Says - you - who hasn't worn the t-shirt....   

Whether or not someone has been married or not is irrelevant to knowing that keeping your word is the right thing to do.  Trust is the foundation of society.  Without trust, you have chaos. 
The most basic rules for life can be summed up as the Golden Rule, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (and inversely, Do not unto others as you would not have done unto you), or Do what you say you are going to do, and do not infringe the rights of others.

The issue was commitment to family  - you remember you asked ME to READ more carefully !

If you take the time to care for an elderly person out of the goodness of your heart, they are like family to you.  Or do you only make commitments to blood relatives?

I am indeed giving you too much time - arguing with an idiot ...  You had a reasoned explanation - you,clearly - did not bother to read or your indoctrination renders your helpless 

No, I simply refuse to play your game of obfuscation.  Selfishness is the reason for divorce, although it manifests itself in many ways.

Why are you giving me so much time?  That is a good question, but I doubt you really want it answered.

You feel threatened by me, because I don't fit into your paradigm.  I force you to acknowledge a reality you wish to ignore, because it is not comfortable for you to admit that your behavior is wrong.  You want to believe it is ok, and you try to justify it.  And as long as everyone around you condones or participates in the same conduct, you can convince yourself that what you are doing is good and acceptable.  But when someone comes along and chooses to hold themselves to a higher standard, you feel threatened and exposed.  It's normal human behavior, and I don't take it personally.

    Could you learn to read and remember who says what?


I might - but I'm older (!) and is it SO hard to use the default code that makes it CLEAR to whom you are responding ...Are you LAZY?

Efficient is a better word.  And yes, when you are responding to multiple points, it really is that hard to use the reply with quote.  It's much easier to hit the quote button and copy and paste.

Look on the bright side, by giving you mental exercises, I can help you fight the effects of old timer's.

There is nothing about you that 'deceives' ... you believe what you wish and can't  /won't persuade many to change...   You might THINK you're a good guy ... 'Happy' for you ... 

Somehow, I suspect you don't have a clue about who I am, how I live my life, or the experiences which have shaped me.  You're falling prey to the same thing as how many men create a fantasy of a woman, based upon how they imagine her to be, which can be quite different from reality.

You don't have to be religious to do what you say you will do.

I know ... but I think you are still referring to marriage  vows? ...

That concerns all oaths and vows.  If you give your word, you keep it.

    Did they use wedding rings, which have no ending, to symbolize that the agreement is forever?


So, now you MUST be referring to someone else's  response... You cannot / will not see how this likely means no-one will bother to try to understand your viewpoint ?

I threw my wedding ring in a lake

Yes, that was a response to Davo, as he was commenting that the words "til death we do part" has not been in weddings he has been to in many years.

The ring is still the evidence you gave of your unending commitment.  Hiding or tampering evidence does not make the event unhappen.  The ring is unending, and you chose it as evidence of your unending commitment.

[msmob]

I do not claim to be a "Man of God."

You'll forgive me and I'm guessing others for thinking otherwise ....  but I note you chose to ignore I sought their counsel before making my eventual decision 

Using the reply with quote is a nightmare when you are replying to multiple points, or multiple people.

How so? You use the insert quote function and doing so is courteous and makes one's responses easier to read and to SEE the persons message to which you are responding TO...  It is impossible to know to whom you are replying and what they refer to ... 

You are an idealist - and haven't experienced reality....  ALL your points are your beliefs ... they are not mine - your 'reminding' me of my vows doesn't bring about a sense of guilt - *I* know what I did was for the best - for others I love

Why are you on this forum ?  Do you seek a virgin FSU W ?  ..Or are you hoping to convert some of us to your viewpoint ?

[BdHvA]

You use the insert quote function and doing so is courteous and makes one's responses easier to read and to SEE the persons message to which you are responding TO...  It is impossible to know to whom you are replying and what they refer to ... 

Bingo!

Bee Farmer is not the only poster who is ignorant, abuses or misuses the quote feature. It takes time to sort through prior posts to see who is responding to whom. Part of this though is the functionality of the platform. For that the owners of RWD are partially to blame.

[BillyB]

Beefarmer, when quoting someone and you need to quote again on the same or different person, scroll down the page and you will see the latest posts first and in the upper right corner of that post is a button that says "insert quote". You will be able to quote that person and their name will be applied so we know who you're quoting.

[msmob]

You use the insert quote function and doing so is courteous and makes one's responses easier to read and to SEE the persons message to which you are responding TO...  It is impossible to know to whom you are replying and what they refer to ... 

Beefarmer, when quoting someone and you need to quote again on the same or different person, scroll down the page and you will see the latest posts first and in the upper right corner of that post is a button that says "insert quote". You will be able to quote that person and their name will be applied so we know who you're quoting.

I think he might get the message BillyB, but thanks for backing us up

[BillyB]

I think he might get the message BillyB, but thanks for backing us up

Beefarmer may now find it easier to quote people saving him time and allowing him to quote twice as many times as he's currently doing.

[Trenchcoat]

I'm sorry you had another bad time.

Ignoring red flags seems to be becoming routine though!

Maybe more vetting before meeting, and more vetting during meetings and more willingness to walk away in 1.3 seconds if it's going in a direction that isnt healthy for either person?

I second that. Assessing up front and walking away within a short time once you are sure your assessment is accurate and not impulsive is one of the most important things I have learned recently. A girl that is no good at the outset never will be I think.

In the west many guys myself included are reluctant to do this as the next opportunity may not come along in a long time. In the FSU girls are almost two a penny so this means you don't have to take no sh*t.

It's important though to gain an understanding of what the Red Flags are. For Gaspar one was smoking, others though he only found out about through experience. It's been the same way for me, going over there and wanting it to work out with a girl but not knowing a lot about Red Flags beyond the obvious Scammer stuff.

I think now that Gaspar has had a couple of misadventures he'll be getting a better idea of what to look out for so he can vet the girls better next time.

[John Gaunt]

I second that. Assessing up front and walking away within a short time once you are sure your assessment is accurate and not impulsive is one of the most important things I have learned recently. A girl that is no good at the outset never will be I think.

In the west many guys myself included are reluctant to do this as the next opportunity may not come along in a long time. In the FSU girls are almost two a penny so this means you don't have to take no sh*t.

It's important though to gain an understanding of what the Red Flags are. For Gaspar one was smoking, others though he only found out about through experience. It's been the same way for me, going over there and wanting it to work out with a girl but not knowing a lot about Red Flags beyond the obvious Scammer stuff.

I think now that Gaspar has had a couple of misadventures he'll be getting a better idea of what to look out for so he can vet the girls better next time.

Yet again, you show us that you know nothing about relationships between men and women.
A normal English bloke of your age would be hitched to a normal English girl with a couple of sprogs, yet you are not.
What does that say about you, Trench?

[Trenchcoat]

Yet again, you show us that you know nothing about relationships between men and women.
A normal English bloke of your age would be hitched to a normal English girl with a couple of sprogs, yet you are not.
What does that say about you, Trench?

Its all different nowadays. Girls these days do look to men first jobs second, they look to jobs first, men second. The FSU is the other way around like it used to be here. In addition many women make themselves fat here and seem to think it should be acceptable to the guy, it is not. I would never accept a fat girl, I am just not into them, and with the more fat women a ever declining group of decent women to chose from.

[Nightwish]

Its all different nowadays. Girls these days do look to men first jobs second, they look to jobs first, men second. The FSU is the other way around like it used to be here. In addition many women make themselves fat here and seem to think it should be acceptable to the guy, it is not. I would never accept a fat girl, I am just not into them, and with the more fat women a ever declining group of decent women to chose from.

oh yes, the fatty fairy tale again..  and you are SUCH a catch for the ladies I imagine .. one word comes to mind - starts with an I and ends with diot.

[Boethius]

The FSU is the other way around like it used to be here.

No, it isn't, and that is why, ultimately, you will fail.  Your attitudes will not be tolerated by any FSUW.

[John Gaunt]

Its all different nowadays. Girls these days do look to men first jobs second, they look to jobs first, men second. The FSU is the other way around like it used to be here.

Ah, Trench, trotting out that old garbage again.
There are couples up and down the country getting married in August. Your argument just applies to you. Why would a woman want to get married to someone like you who earns the minimum wage and shows no drive or ambition to be a better provider. A woman will understand that you will not have any equity in providing a safe and secure environment for her and any future children she may have.
That’s why you are looking in the FSU. You think that some poverty stricken FSU beauty is just waiting to be swept away, enticed by the prospect of a better life in TrenchWorld, better in the sense that she is so poor that, in comparison, TrenchWorld is Mecca.

In addition many women make themselves fat here and seem to think it should be acceptable to the guy, it is not. I would never accept a fat girl, I am just not into them, and with the more fat women a ever declining group of decent women to chose from.

Another load of tosh.
You’re a really cretinous so and so. I really hope you never succeed in the FSU. The women there are simply undeserving of someone like you. L

[msmob]

Trench,,

You keep demonstrating what an utter clot you are with ladies at the dating stage and we see more evidence of it in your last offering.

Your attitude sucks and no woman - fat or slim is going to want to be with you

I'm sure your Ma loves you - so ask her where you may be going wrong ...your are nearly beyond help, mate

All I see is 'excuses' for your failings and an element of stubbornness / unwillingness to learn by your mistakes

[Trenchcoat]

Most guys don't want a fat woman I don't really see what all the problem is here. At least I am being honest or did all you guys go looking in the FSU for a nice big fattie and had instead to settle for a hottie

[Boethius]

If all you can attract in the UK is women you find undesirable, the fault lies in you, not the women.

[msmob]

Most guys don't want a fat woman I don't really see what all the problem is here. At least I am being honest or did all you guys go looking in the FSU for a nice big fattie and had instead to settle for a hottie

Do you have reading comprehension issues, too ?

We were suggesting you couldn't be choosy... 

[Trenchcoat]

Do you have reading comprehension issues, too ?

We were suggesting you couldn't be choosy...

Based on?

[John Gaunt]

Most guys don't want a fat woman I don't really see what all the problem is here. At least I am being honest or did all you guys go looking in the FSU for a nice big fattie and had instead to settle for a hottie

We do and it's not a pretty sight. 

[msmob]

Based on?

responses like this....

a 'refusal' to change your attitude and your 'sense of humour'

[John Gaunt]

I think this thread title fits better.