OK here is a poll for the ladies

[DKMM]

Assuming you have corresponded to him on email and maybe some phone calls, but never met before.

Even if you aren't interested in western men, if you are a RW please vote.  Thanks!

[Lily]

In your hypothetical, how long and intensive was the correspondence?
Do we assume no webcaming before personal meeting?

[DKMM]

No webcamming.  Lets just say you've talked with him about 10 times on email or phone, so you don't really know him too well but a little bit.

[mirror]

In your hypothetical, how long and intensive was the correspondence?
Do we assume no webcaming before personal meeting?

Personaly I think to use web camera can give a good possibility to know and to imagine your partner.
Only correspondences are very long way. To speak by telephone and web camera I think are more easier to know who is it your new friend.


 

[Lily]

Very much agree with Sofia about the webcam, and i think it is a good tool to weed out scammers.

For the sake of question, it feels that the hypothetical man did not even sent any photos of himself. At least I did not specify. So the respondents are supposed to reply how much does it take to them to understand whether the man has chances.

I think there are 2 areas to consider here that are going through the woman about the man. One area is her rationale part. By writing emails, the man essentially appeals to that part of her. The woman reads and notices his communication style, his choice of words, richness or poorness of his language, linguistic mistakes, etc.

Another area are her instincts. They tell her somewhat like 'you can consider having sex with this man, he may be yours'. Generally, this is her appreciation of his genes, health, and energy. DKMM probably meant to understand when, at which moment this area makes its signal, positive or negative, to the woman.

As for me, I can not remember going to a personal meeting without having seen at least one photo, or better multiple photos. In most cases, my impression about the man from emails+photos was equal to the personal impression. Sometimes emails+photos made a good impression while the personal meeting showed a worse picture. But I can not remember any opposite case where pictures and written words were misrepresenting the real man...may be some other ladies could?

[mirror]

Very much agree with Sofia about the webcam, and i think it is a good tool to weed out scammers.

For the sake of question, it feels that the hypothetical man did not even sent any photos of himself. At least I did not specify. So the respondents are supposed to reply how much does it take to them to understand whether the man has chances.

I think there are 2 areas to consider here that are going through the woman about the man. One area is her rationale part. By writing emails, the man essentially appeals to that part of her. The woman reads and notices his communication style, his choice of words, richness or poorness of his language, linguistic mistakes, etc.

Another area are her instincts. They tell her somewhat like 'you can consider having sex with this man, he may be yours'. Generally, this is her appreciation of his genes, health, and energy. DKMM probably meant to understand when, at which moment this area makes its signal, positive or negative, to the woman.

As for me, I can not remember going to a personal meeting without having seen at least one photo, or better multiple photos. In most cases, my impression about the man from emails+photos was equal to the personal impression. Sometimes emails+photos made a good impression while the personal meeting showed a worse picture. But I can not remember any opposite case where pictures and written words were misrepresenting the real man...may be some other ladies could?

I agree ...It seems to me I can feel person by writing messages and letters. Sometimes it is not necessary to see face because to read his messages is quiet enough to feel this personality. But I had not a big experience to compare real persons and persons by writing ( only one and it was what I could feel ...).

Maybe it is important to me only to catch something very thin untangible things by writing.

I am sure for men it is different.

[Lily]

Yes, Sofia, you catch an exact word. In his emails we can READ his personality 

It is only a part of his personality though..but the one that he made himself during the life 

[Kuna]

I'm not a Russian Lady so maybe I shouldn't be posting here... but...  I think it's easy for someone to "pretend" to be a certain type of person in email because it is not "live" communication.  People can stop and think... and calculate an answer if they want the answer to be met with acceptance.

On the other hand if complex and intelligent questions are asked over time and are repeated in slightly different ways you can definitely see those people that "manufacture" their responses.

When I was writing I received many positive responses to my emails but through asking the right questions it was pretty easy to identify those who I felt more compatible with...  Sometimes My Girl gave me answers I didn't really like but her explanations actually made a lot of sense and my ideas evolved.  It is something I really value in her... she makes me think about my own decisions.

Phone is good but you have to be careful a person doesn't just agree.  Maybe they don't understand and it's easier to say "Yes, Yes"...  This is where language is important I think. They MUST understand before you can understand!

I remember the first time I negotiated a contract with a Japanese company.  After a 2 hour meeting I walked out and felt like high-fiving everyone within 50 metres because the meeting went so well.  They agreed to almost everything.  The next few months were a nightmare as I discovered they weren't agreeing... when they were saying "Yes" they were actually saying "Yes, I hear you."

Face to face time is the only reality that counts. While email, phone and (I guess) videoconferencing might be good to develop an general understanding they can't replace a touch of a hand, shared eye contact or spontaneous laughter.

Something that gave me 100% confidence was seeing how My Girl interacted with other people.  You can't see that through electronic mediums.

Just my thoughts... I'll go back to the Blokes Board now.   

Kuna

[Gator]

DKMM,

It would be interesting to poll the men with the same question.  I do not know if the software allows such in this thread so that men can see how the ladies voted in comparison.

[Lily]

Kuna and other guys, of course you are welcome here to comment and ask again!

I hope your long moving legs will bring you back here from that Blokes Board soon 

[BillyB]

DKMM,

Could you alter your poll so those of us that can't vote could see the the results. I believe in some people's polls there's a "see results" button a member could push to see to ongoing poll numbers without voting.

[Jack]

My own personal expereince is I know in the first 15 or 20 minutes if their is potential or not.

With most ladies I knew in the first 15-20 minutes as to if their is potential.    Unfortuantly it's also a two-way street as many ladies I would feel potential for, or wished for, she did not have any interest. As such 85% of the time most first meetings are also last meetings.

Most meetings were always 2 hours. If I knew in the first 15-20 minutes I did not have interest in this woman as a potential wife, or I could sense she did not have interest in me, I would relax, enjoy the next hour and have this one woman educate me as to the ways of this one Russian woman. I would ask about her life, how she was raised, how she thought she would adjust to life in a new country, what she thought would be the biggest things for her to adjust to.  By trying to educate myself a little to each of these Russian women, I never had a wasted meeting.

With the ladies I felt a potential connection with, and I felt they were also interested, it was with these ladies I would have the second, third meetings with.

[Lily]

Would you guys feel lost if she excuses herself after 15 minutes of your first personal meeting, if you feel there is a potential or if she seems to be just very attractive to you?

[BillyB]

If a woman tells me after 15 minutes she has no chemistry with me, I would be disappointed things didn't work out but I would realize it's for the best. It's important that both people are happy with each other. I could not live with a woman who is not happy with me.

I would prefer a woman to tell me she has no chemistry within 15 minutes than wait a week. I think it's easier for both man and woman to break up sooner than later if there's no chemistry rather than going on more boring dates and forcing oneself to liking another person.

[Gator]

Physical attraction is decided in less than a minute. 

There is that defining moment when you look into each other's eyes for the first time.  I have read disappointment in some RW eyes and have had a couple RW virtually swoon.  Most are reserved and difficult to read.  For sure they are judging me for only God knows what, some staring at me and barely listening.

My ex-fiancee turned her head and body away as I approached her from across the room.  I took this as a "Oh sh!t, she doesn't like me."  I learned that she was so excited she had to hide it.  Everyone is different.

Now to the question, "Do I like her now that I find her physically attractive?" 

That takes me at least a few hours, maybe longer. And later I discover I was wrong. 

Also, I must feel that she likes me.  This takes time with an AW. And it takes more time with a RW because of 1) the "fog" that I mentioned elsewhere and 2) I want to be sure because usually I have invested much pre-meeting time with her.

I tend to give women the benefit of my doubts as we discover each other.   And if we are on our first date, I reserve judgment until the date is over and the "When will you call me?" question arises.  Nevertheless, there could be a moment along the way, possibly as soon as the first hour, when suddenly it is apparent that some things about her can not be liked. 

One can observe the 15-minute decision at a social gathering with many strangers.  Two strangers will start talking, and they talk, talk, talk for most of the party.  Another may excuse himself in 5 minutes with the exit: "Pardon me, I must remind my friend of something.  It was nice talking with you (fake smile)."

[mirror]

Jack said... or I could sense she did not have interest in me, I would relax, enjoy the next hour and have this one woman educate me...

I can say others. Despite of I see a man doesn't show any interest to me I can show my own interest to him more and more if I like this man.And I can try to do that many times.Maybe I am wrong...but it is my way.Why not?

[Lily]

In other words, you would prefer to try to win the man using some extra time, did I get this right Sofia?

[mirror]

In other words, you would prefer to try to win the man using some extra time, did I get this right Sofia?

Yes, I don't affraid if one day he will say me ...sorry,Sofia, leave me alone, then yes, I can stop to show my interest. Untill that I can try to get this man. I think I am owner of my life and I can decide if he is right man for me or not.

I prefer to show myself from many sides of my personality and I want to let him know me better  and to give him a chance to see how I am perfect for him ! 

You can laugh ...but it is my way.

[Kvinna]

as it is section for Russian women I will speak in Russian
Мне кажется, чтобы выснить привлекает ли тебя мужчина физически, достаточно одной минуты. Но физическая привлекательность еще не повод для серьезных отношений или замужества. Даже для траха это еще не повод.
В понятие "нравится" ведь многое чего входит, как минимум доверие. А для того чтобы доверять нужно время, много времени... ИМХО

[mirror]

Лиля,

 а, Вы, что будете переводить? или пусть сами переводят?

[mirror]

as it is section for Russian women I will speak in Russian
Мне кажется, чтобы выснить привлекает ли тебя мужчина физически, достаточно одной минуты. Но физическая привлекательность еще не повод для серьезных отношений или замужества. Даже для траха это еще не повод.
В понятие "нравится" ведь многое чего входит, как минимум доверие. А для того чтобы доверять нужно время, много времени... ИМХО

И правда ...чего мучаюсь -пишу по английски. Да, наверное, не могу не согласиться.Я скорее тоже тестирую человека на "вшивость", т.е. могу ли я доверять. Ну ,конечно, бывают проколы. С кем не бывает?

Для замужества надо что-то еще.

[Jack]

Kvinna я не думаю, что это прибудет как удивление к Вам, когда я говорю большинство мужчин, - собаки. Мы - существа привычки.  Я, Вы, не могу изменить человечество, но мы можем пробовать быть более нежным, более добрым. Сначала большинство мужчин ищет красоту женщины и если мы привлечены к ней, мы хотим встретить ее и "надеяться", что мы могли бы найти внутреннюю красоту, мы привлечены к тому, столько, сколько мы - с ее внешней красотой, или как обычно упомянуто, химией.


Это действительно занимает время, чтобы узнать кого - то, доверять кому - то. Но если мы физически не привлечены женщине тогда, большинство мужчин не видит потребность в трате времени этой женщины.

[Kvinna]

Kvinna я не думаю, что это прибудет как удивление к Вам, когда я говорю большинство мужчин, - собаки. Мы - существа привычки.  Я, Вы, не могу изменить человечество, но мы можем пробовать быть более нежным, более добрым. Сначала большинство мужчин ищет красоту женщины и если мы привлечены к ней, мы хотим встретить ее и "надеяться", что мы могли бы найти внутреннюю красоту, мы привлечены к тому, столько, сколько мы - с ее внешней красотой, или как обычно упомянуто, химией.


Это действительно занимает время, чтобы узнать кого - то, доверять кому - то. Но если мы физически не привлечены женщине тогда, большинство мужчин не видит потребность в трате времени этой женщины.

Я же не сказала, что физическая привлекательность не важна.
Важна первые пять минут.
С крокодилом никто общаться не хочет и не будет.
Но физическая привлекательность - это не все. Мужчина может быть красавчик с лица, при этом полным ничтожеством, и с массой прочих недостатоков. Женщина ищет в мужчине стабильность и защищенность.
Кстати заметила, что мужчины красавчики, как правило инфантильны и эгоистичны. А оно нам надо?

[Jack]

Kvinna мы соглашаемся, что их больше к отношениям это только физическое обращение. Физическое обращение - легкая часть, теперь, может их быть небольшим количеством вещества в этих отношениях, и это - то, что занимает время. Может эта женщина, и я имею химию, и это займет время.


Но если человек не будет физически привлечен, то он наиболее вероятно не будет давать этой женщине время.


Вы правы о женщине, которая ищет стабильность и безопасность в человеке. Это - одна из многих прекрасных вещей о российских женщинах - то, что это является важным для них. Также мужчины, которые не столь же красива как Том Круиз, но будут хорошим отцом, хорошим мужем и хорошим и преданным поставщиком, обычно будут в состоянии найти намного более привлекательную российскую женщину, которая примет его чем, говорят американская женщина.

[mirror]

Kvinna мы соглашаемся, что их больше к отношениям это только физическое обращение. Физическое обращение - легкая часть, теперь, может их быть небольшим количеством вещества в этих отношениях, и это - то, что занимает время. Может эта женщина, и я имею химию, и это займет время.


Но если человек не будет физически привлечен, то он наиболее вероятно не будет давать этой женщине время.


Вы правы о женщине, которая ищет стабильность и безопасность в человеке. Это - одна из многих прекрасных вещей о российских женщинах - то, что это является важным для них. Также мужчины, которые не столь же красива как Том Круиз, но будут хорошим отцом, хорошим мужем и хорошим и преданным поставщиком, обычно будут в состоянии найти намного более привлекательную российскую женщину, которая примет его чем, говорят американская женщина.

А что, американки как-то по-другому смотрят на мужчин?

[DKMM]

I altered the poll, sorry it was my 1st time.  hehe i hope too many guys didn't vote to see the results.  I like this ladies forum, I am putting it to good use.

btw i can read Russian, Kvinna of course I meant "нравится" and not how long it is to trust.  To trust a man is after you've made the decision to try with him, which means you like him.  But it brings up something that I've noticed in my pursuits, that it takes a while to earn trust internationally.

Why all the talk on physical?  Of course men put a higher priority on appearance Jack but that isn't something we focus on when looking for a wife.   I have to agree with Kvinna...

Mirror, you are correct!

That was fun translating, I learned a few new words. ИМХО LOL!

[Kvinna]

btw i can read Russian, Kvinna of course I meant "нравится" and not how long it is to trust.  To trust a man is after you've made the decision to try with him, which means you like him.  But it brings up something that I've noticed in my pursuits, that it takes a while to earn trust internationally.

I have to disagree, if a woman doesn't trust a man she hardly even accept to meet him for coffee. If you don't trust you hardly could like someone

[Lily]

btw i can read Russian, Kvinna of course I meant "нравится" and not how long it is to trust.  To trust a man is after you've made the decision to try with him, which means you like him.  
 

Trust comes not after but before a decision to try with him.

[mirror]

Trust comes not after but before a decision to try with him.

it is a credit of trust. After some period we can say ...yes, I trust you.

[wiz]

DKMM

To trust a man is after you've made the decision to try with him, which means you like him.  But it brings up something that I've noticed in my pursuits, that it takes a while to earn trust internationally

Kvinna

I have to disagree, if a woman doesn't trust a man she hardly even accept to meet him for coffee. If you don't trust you hardly could like some one

Lily

Trust comes not after but before a decision to try with him.

How can you trust a man before you meet him?

Simply you don’t know him, despite any communication you may had by e-mails, phone calls or on conference on Camera. You only get some positive vibes about him and you like him, as DKMM said.

You built trust only when you had time to get to know him.

[Lily]

Sorry, I should have made myself more clear than that.

By 'trying with him' I meant not the first meeting but a decision to go some farther with him.

Probably a meeting for coffee could happen before any trust is built, yes.

[Kvinna]

Probably a meeting for coffee could happen before any trust is built, yes.

А как это вы с ним пойдете попить кофейку, если не чувствуете расположение?
Расположение прежде кофе... а расположенеие - это ведь не только физическая привлекательность. Доверие может быть на разных уровнях, на уровне интуиции в том числе

[Lily]

by trust I meant доверие, not расположение 

кофеек в данном случае повод для личного знакомства, не более...

[Nat]

I answered “A week or more”. To be more precise, I would be able to tell if I like a man (not like a friend, but like a man), only after seeing him in real life and spending certain time with him – I mean, going to the cinema, walking, chatting and, well, behaving like friends, in order to let friendship develop into something more romantic May be that’s why I stopped my attempts to date internationally – I can’t say, if I feel something towards a man, whom I’ve seen only for several days in real life. Long mailing and phone chats can help to establish a good friendship, but as for love... I’m not sure. Theoretically, may be yes, but I haven’t had such experience yet

[Kvinna]

by trust I meant доверие, not расположение 

кофеек в данном случае повод для личного знакомства, не более...

а бывет расположение без доверия?
Если тупро про нравится, это должна быть случайна встреча, шли шли и увидели друг друга нежданно негаданно. И решение потратить на мужчину полчаса приходит не потому что он красавчЕГ, а потому что там есть нечто большее ИМХО

[Lily]

Kvinna,

we are not talking here about occasional encounters right on streets as you suggested.

We mean making the initial 'getting to know' each other by correspondence and phone calls. At this stage, the woman and the man came to conclusion that it makes sense to meet on person, that there may be a chance, a possibility to like each other in person and may be more.

You are absolutely right that people spend half an hour on a personal meeting because there is a possibility for more.

[olena]

A week or more 

[WmGO]

Ok, same question but instead of "like" him ask "romantically interested" in him.

Regardless, I think that it is interesting that almost 50% said either in minutes or a day or two in regards to "like" which I assume means "romantically interested"..........

[Lily]

Ok, same question but instead of "like" him ask "romantically interested" in him.

Regardless, I think that it is interesting that almost 50% said either in minutes or a day or two in regards to "like" which I assume means "romantically interested"..........

Could you please explain the difference between "liking" and "being romantically interested"?

[Simoni]

For me, it took less than 3 mintues....

But Marina answered the poll as...  a week or more!

So much for our chemistry    LOL

[MaxxumUSA]

For me and Elena it took only a few days to know we wanted a very serious relationship.

BUT...  for physical appearance...  Boy, I hope she does not read this post of mine.

The first time I saw her she was smiling SO MUCH that her face almost looked freaky with her cheaks puffed up.  My first thought was that she looked nothing like her photo and I just traveled 5,500 miles to find this out.  I had just flown for 24 hours so I was not shaven, had no sleep, and I'm sure I smelled fairly bad.  I could tell she was real nervous waiting for me based on a few things.

The first few minutes were a bit nerve racking to say the least.

We went on our first date after she picked me up at the airport and I checked into the hotel room.  Sushi for dinner.  Of all the things.  Fantastic.  I can't use chopsticks!  I think all russian people use them perfectly.  I had to look like a complete fool dickering around with those silly sticks.  She asks the waitress for a fork...  because I spoke NO russian at all my first trip.  Another first impression to show I'm a dummy.  But I showed her good old american tenacity and foolishness.  I refused the fork and let her teach me how to use the chopsticks.  I would not stop using them until I had it down.

We were both nervous and uncomfortable.  At least at this point she was starting to relax and I was able to see how truly beautiful this woman is physically.  What class she showed as she taught me to use those chopsticks.  She treated me with respect and allowed my manhood to be in tact when translating for me to people.  What a great woman she proved herself to be in short order.

That was basically our first hours.  I HIGHLY doubt if you asked her after that first date what she thought of me that she would say, "He's the man of my dreams." 

But...  THEN we go back to her flat.  I had brought an Al Green CD.  Al serenaded her as I stole her heart.  We both opened up and talked, touched, and just got close for a couple hours.  (NOT sex)  It was only after relaxing that we connected. 

We spent the next few days together.  I would say we connected completely by the second day and I would say she would agree.

As for writing and webcams...  this is good in some ways.  For me and Elena this is our lifeline.  We spend 1/2 hour to one hour daily webcamming.  But it's not even close to being in person.  When I am in person with people we are usually laughing, having a good time, joking around.  But I type very serious most of the time.  This comes from a business background and the ability to type quickly I think.  Webcamming I loosen up a bit more, but it's not the same as giving her a friendly tickle when she needs a little smile on her face.

For the record I did make a second trip to visit Elena.  First three weeks in April.  All of those feelings from the first trip were confirmed and we were like peas and carrots as Forrest would say.  I proposed on the third day of my second trip. 

OK...  I know this was a poll for ladies...  But hey, it's 2:40 in the morning and I can't sleep so I'm here just a typing away.  Deal with it!  LOL

[WmGO]

Lily,

I am sure that in your poll "like" is used as the same as "romatically interested". Don't worry. The Yin and Yang are ok

I do think the poll shows the strengths and weaknesses of WMVM, at least arguably. Obviously a stregth of WMVM  is half the women will write the man off within 24 hours. The weakness is that for the other half of the woman it will take some days to know.

I think that between the possibility that a man can decide in minutes or hours or one day that he has no interest and a woman can do the same............ultimately WMVM makes more sense.....FWIW...........