Please Identify these Ladies

[Elen]

Agree, but rather influenced than destroyed. Humor is the thing that can hardly be measured at the good-bad scale.

Oh now we are turing silly american joke  into claiming that Russians had "wrong"  sence of humore because of their history Fine Ok nothing to do for me here for sure with my humore. Good luck for you Lily ion your getto You will be rather good полицай  or староста if you wish  here  ( explain your western friends which flauts of Russian history influenced my this joke because they hardly would get what I was going to say)

[Gator]

Ladies, I am too tired to explain sarcasm, irony, satire, and lampoon to a level that you deserve    I am already in a hole and will not dig deeper.


Such jokes are funny if they insult the strong such as our President Bush.  They are not funny if they insult the weak, particularly if the insult is false, and especially so if malicious. 

I am busy tomorrow so you have a free hand to ridicule me to your heart’s desire.  Just try to put it in some true context (e. g.,  photoshop my head onto an old goat). 

I meant no malice.  Nevertheless, I apologize to Kvinna and Elen since your names are mentioned in my first post and I feel your hurt.   If you read it again you will note that I did not say you were in the photo - I only asked, which I admit can be considered a suggestion. 

If you do accept the apology, please use this as a teaching opportunity to explain to us ignorant men what is acceptable humor in Russia.   We do need to take the high road, not just here but in most of the interactions that became too caustic after a recent event.

[DKMM]

I'm going to have to side with the ladies on this one.  That would be funny if it were guys but I can't see it being funny when referring to RW.  We are lucky to have some opinionated devil's advocate RWs around here to keep us in line.  but that's just IMXO.

[wiz]

I'm going to have to side with the ladies on this one.  That would be funny if it were guys but I can't see it being funny when referring to RW.  We are lucky to have some opinionated devil's advocate RWs around here to keep us in line.  but that's just IMXO.

I don't agree with you and Gator went to pains to explain and apologised......what more?

When in Rome do as the Romans do, comes to mind and also we must not forget certain cutting remarks, non stop sarcasm, ridicule and certain actions towards male members.

If you cannot bear the Heat get out of the kitchen ....... and all of us understood the humour behind that post. Why is it only us who have to try understand them and not be reciprocated?

PS: Sorry Lily but a small little joke gone out of all proportions.

[Kuna]

Yeah mate naah... 

I think some people are trying to get a little milage out of this.  Gator has apologised - what more is he supposed to do?  Submit to public humiliation by being listed at AD for not respecting RW?

I thought it was pretty funny but privately acknowledged the criticism of the joke early on.

I think if someone wants to make a big deal out of it they will...  Sheeesh... it's hardly the worst thing I've seen in here.

Elen and Kvinna seem to be able to give as good as they get - but I rarely see any humour in their posts.

If they were offended they've been given an apology... If they choose not to accept the apology it's up to them.

[Jazzyclassy]

Oh dear Gator DKMM WIz and all relax take it easy la la la la

humour is humour I can be all those babushkas all together I do not care, the only thing I do not know if I am able to live that long, and if I manage to live that long I think I wont be able to look like they are looking, might look even worse really with so much stress in this life, I am not surprising  about anything:)

[Rvrwind]

My secretary told me an Russian antidote about the courtship of Russian women today & I thought I would share it just to add a little fuel to the fire.
There is a Russian saying that I won't begin to write in Russian but roughly translated says - A Russian woman can make any man a millionaire after marriage, so long as he was a billionaire before the marriage!
Don't know about you but I thought that was TFF!
Personally that could apply to most women anywhere in my opinion!

[ScottinCrimea]

This thread does show some differences in American vs. Russian humor.  I know I can watch Russian comedy programs and my wife will be rolling on the floor and I will be sitting there without a clue, even though I could understand the words.  Sarcastic humor is definitely something that most Russians don't seem to appreciate.  I know if someone had posted a picture of some old fart on a laptop and suggested it was me, I probably would said they had the wrong photo and posted one much worse.  I think Americans are more williing to poke fun at themselves as individuals as well as recognize sarcastic humor toward us without being offended.  I am speaking in generalizations because I have known some Americans who get offended by the slightest mention of them in any negative light, even if only in jest, and some Russians who can use sarcastic humor with the best of them, but this thread has identified a few people here who don't appreciate American sarcastic humor directed at them or their country, so I think it best to avoid it with them.

[Elen]

Повторяю для американских тупиц, которые претендуют на юмористов - сарказм по поводу возраста и внешности мало знакомой вам женщины не приемлем в России ( и я подозреваю в Америке тоже.)
 В следующий раз, если у кого возникнет недержание юмора, используйте для его демонстрации собственных подружек и жен почетных местных членов  - бабушек среди них предостаточно для этих целей.

[ScottinCrimea]

For those of you who don't know the word тупиц, it translates to numbskulls, so the woman who protests so much about name calling by others needs to do some introspection.

[Daveman]

This thread does show some differences in American vs. Russian humor.  I know I can watch Russian comedy programs and my wife will be rolling on the floor and I will be sitting there without a clue, even though I could understand the words.  Sarcastic humor is definitely something that most Russians don't seem to appreciate...

Agreed.  The problem with this thread is, regardless of what anyone thinks about Elen, (and it should be obvious from my posts around the board, I like her a lot), she is a woman with feelings, and this thread hurt her.  That should be obvious from her responses.  We can blast her all day long about her opinions of America, or some of the other things she says and she takes the heat of the kitchen just fine, and returns it just as hot.

But this joke, whether we think the RW should understand our humor, really did step over the line because it was a joke which hurt someone, intentionally or not.  It's not being PC, or other such garbage, it's simply human decency to avoid such situations.  Name calling such as "old babushka" is simply uncalled for, has zero intrinsic value, and as is lowering one's self to throwing an emotional punch into the stomach of a lady and shouldn't be tolerated by any of us.

I didn't quite get the problem with this joke at first, but Lily did, and pointed it out immediately, Bruno as well.

Elen, I'm sorry I took part in this thread.  We had begun to get to know each other, and I am sure when you saw me saw me defending this thread, it must have felt a bit of a betrayal.  I hope we will continue to get to know each other because I enjoy our exchanges and you bring a unique and lively perspective to this board and I am glad you're here. 

Dave

[Elen]

It was sarcasm but not name calling  you should learn to understand it and not take offences about it

[Bruce]

Speaking of humor, I wonder if the native Russians / Ukrainians on this board have seen "The Three Stooges" and if they find them funny?  By the way what do you Russian women find funny?  By the way, my wife can not wait until I bring the video "Boarat" home - she very much wants to see it, though I am not sure if she will find it funny or not.

[DKMM]

For the record, I never said gator's apology wasn't enough.  He handled it just fine.  I guess I was just thinking the joke wasn't a good idea since the middle aged RW on here are obviously so very sensitive about being referred to as babushkas.  Elen's responses are amusing though.

[Elen]

Well you neither can make jokes nor you can properly make apologies
 I explained you what was wrong with Gator's first attempt His second attempt was not needed already because too many words have been said for protection of his action and blaming the other side to believe that he and others got what was wrong. And if you ( in general) didn't get anything then your apologies are just your "false American smile" which has little value in Russia

[Admin]

Well you neither can make jokes nor you can properly make apologies
 I explained you what was wrong with Gator's first attempt His second attempt was not needed already because too many words have been said for protection of his action and blaming the other side to believe that he and others got what was wrong. And if you ( in general) didn't get anything then your apologies are just your "false American smile" which has little value in Russia

Elen,

Too many words.

Too little understanding.

Are you deeply hurt or offended?

If so - what do you want done?

- Dan

[Elen]

I want that you wold understand why I was offended But there is still LITTLE understanding So I want nothing



PS No. I do want. MOVE THIS THREAD BACK Let RW who are going to participate your board SEE what it is.

[Admin]

I want that you wold understand why I was offended But there is still LITTLE understanding So I want nothing



PS No. I do want. MOVE THIS THREAD BACK Let RW who are going to participate your board SEE what it is.

Elen,

I will ask Lily how she feels about moving the thread back to the Ladies Forum - although I fail to see how that has ANY significance at this time.

You have had numerous guys come on to state that they understand your offense - AND - more importantly, they made the effort to try to explain a different (maybe cultural) point of view.

The guys here did, in fact, try to reach out to you Elen - and it is sad that you either fail to see it, or refuse to accept it.

Elen, there comes a point when people have to move on.

- Dan

[Elen]

Why is it only Lily's opinion should be taken into consideration  if it was not "her" problem?

Guys tryed to help in not that derection ( though it was nice to see their attempts) But it was not an issue about different cultures and different understanding of sarcasm . I see it was like purposely made action from Gator ( which he of course refused to addmit and which little males addmited as well. 

I do can move on. (Yeah One more MY fault. Wonder what could be in different way if I used that offer to claim in private to moderator I guess nothing  It would be the same - you Elen got everything in wrong way so nothing moderators could do about your such "stupidity" )

 But as actually it s YOU who got nothing the same would be repeated in future one more times and reservation for RW at your board would be a need forever.

[Admin]

Why is it only Lily's opinion should be taken into consideration  if it was not "her" problem?

Guys tryed to help in not that derection ( though it was nice to see their attempts) But it was not an issue about different cultures and different understanding of sarcasm . I see it was like purposely made action from Gator ( which he of course refused to addmit and which little males addmited as well. 

I do can move on. (Year one more MY fault )  But I bet you got nothing, here would be repeated in future one more times and reservation for RW at your board would be a need for forever

Elen,

You were provided a clear and distinct apology. For you to fail to acknowledge that is extremely ungracious. Are you really so ungracious that you cannot accept an apology?

- Dan

[Elen]

I explained you what I saw wrong with those apologises Should I repeat you?
First variant was not made in proper way. Second variant would be normal if it was made without all those "IF they "feel they were insulted" and all those "explanations" what;'s wrong with Russian that they can't get sarcasm posted latter which were attempts to prove me it was I who was wrong ( you still continue to do that so it's hard for me to believe that YOU yourself REALLY understood that Gator made something wrong) 

So next time such behaviour would not be cut off by you without "debates" which makes all your offers to make claims to moderators a vain possability.

[Admin]

I explained you what I saw wrong with those apologises Should I repeat you?
First variant was not made in proper way. Second variant would be normal if it was made without all those "if" and all those "explanation" posted latter which were attempts to prove me it was I who was wrong ( you still continue to do that so it's hard for me to believe that YOU yourself REALLY understood that Gator made something wrong) 

So next time such behaviour would not be cut off by you without "debates" which makes all your offers to make claims to moderators vain possability.

So what you are saying Elen - is that an apology is not sufficient. Instead, the person must follow YOUR rules for issuance of an apology - and if it does not meet your standard, then it is not accepted.

I will say it again - I find this attitude incredibly ungracious.

- Dan

[mirror]

So what you are saying Elen - is that an apology is not sufficient. Instead, the person must follow YOUR rules for issuance of an apology - and if it does not meet your standard, then it is not accepted.

I will say it again - I find this attitude incredibly ungracious.

- Dan

it is none of your business to accuse Elen.She can take this appologize or not.She explained very clear.

[Elen]

So what you are saying Elen - is that an apology is not sufficient. Instead, the person must follow YOUR rules for issuance of an apology - and if it does not meet your standard, then it is not accepted.

I will say it again - I find this attitude incredibly ungracious.

- Dan

 You see if  I was insulted then it should be MY rules for apologises.
( if you don't wish to know what would be my rules for apologises it mean only one thing - you don't care about my feeling at all So all apologies are only for yourself . In this case keep those apologies for yourself because I have no need in them. )

As for my "rules" then they are not such hard and are not such off of common sense

First of all it should be UNDERSTANDING that I WAS insulted ( so no IFs )
Secondary it should be made to ME personally ( but not to administration of board as if the main concern of poster was "spoiling somebodies' board")
And thirdly there should not be continuing attempts to prove me I was wrong AFTER apologies have been made ( or it makes those apologises look like just PC( PR) action which I don;t need at all because I'm Russian and could live without western "false smiles" )

And actually I really should not waste time here in vain attempts to teach you how to behave. Let you apply you western gracious manners to your own women and deal latter with their reaction.
Good luck for everybody. Let life teach you in its hard way.

[Admin]

it is none of your business to occuse Elen.She can take this appologize or not.She expleined very clear.

Sure - she can choose to reject an apology - an act which demonstrates a great deal about her character.

And I am entitled to express my reaction to her choices.

I find her unwillingness to accept a sincere apology as extremely ungracious. I find her argumentative and negative response to all this to be intentionally-divisive and insincere.

Elen - just as you Sofia - is welcome to be a productive member of the community - but if the participation becomes one of disruption - that is trollish behavior and it will not be tolerated.

- Dan

- Dan