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Author Topic: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa  (Read 19810 times)

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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2021, 04:23:16 PM »
@iloveukrayinkas

Hey are you still planning to go to Ukraine? Looks like Kiev is in lock down. Bummer. I don't want to expose my lady to any unnecessary risk but we've been looking forward to meeting in spring. I want to go in May but might have to wait and see how things develop.

I think if I were younger I could do the PUA method but now I may just look like a creepy older man. In my younger days the old asking for directions worked like a charm in every country.


Yeah I thought that one could be a good one. A bit harder now with Google map & mobile phones. Would just have to make out you're phone went flat I guess or no local sim card. LOL yeah I too kind of felt a bit like creepy old man when I was looking at some of the young girls posing around Odessa. Thing is unless you're pretty sure they are definitely likely to be at least twenty something or more then a guy around his late thirties or early forties, well let's just say you don't want to risk it  in case she's turns out to be younger than thought. Some real pretty women around Odessa though but a bit of a dating industry area unfortunately.

That's another problem with street game as you age of course. From a distance I probably look like I could be in my twenties but close up no doubt a lot older and nearer my early forties. So  some young girls still give me the eye from a distance lol. Goes to show though that be prepared that the odd embarrassing situation could develop from any which way.


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Offline iloveukrayinkas

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2021, 05:10:40 PM »
Here is a over simplified Cliff Notes version.
It's a philosophy about hitting on Single Women using tactics that "Bad Boys"
use.

The problem with using that in Russia is that 80% of the single Russian men
over a certain age use Bad Boy tactics and know the local language and culture.
The other 19.9841% are dead, in jail, in a relationship or otherwise encumbered.

My advice in the FSU is not to use the PUA tactics but to use the
"Aussie Accent/I'm very unique method instead". There is a perception that
Western men will treat them better, so don't dispel them of that notion the first
chance you get because, that's one of the things they like about you. That's what
makes you different than their local options.

You have a point. And I am aware that men in Russia/Ukraine even go for the
stop the car in the middle of the street sometimes just to chat a girl up and aggressively
ask for her number and stuff like that.

In the case of being a foreigner and trying the Day Game stuff you say it could be counter
productive, however, because of all the SCAMS online I believe it's acceptable to run that
risk instead of being taken for a ride or even assaulted by the criminal organizations there.
I mean, who cares what she thinks about being a player, in the end the right girl will be
welcoming to your approach. On PAY SITES you risk being scammed with the PPLs and also with the
monthly suscription sites, and on the free sites, there's just too many scammers and just
WAY TOO MUCH competition, that the sexual market is already saturated. You are JUST wasting
your precious time online.
I add a screenshot using mamba's live stream feature. A very pretty girl logs in and starts
being flooded with hundreds of guys in less than a minute that i saw her just logging in!!!
Just imagine the amount of competition you can get just trying to hook up with a half attractive
or mediocre girl online, it's just ridiculous!

Life won't get easier. You just have to get stronger.

Offline iloveukrayinkas

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2021, 05:17:12 PM »
@iloveukrayinkas

Hey are you still planning to go to Ukraine? Looks like Kiev is in lock down. Bummer. I don't want to expose my lady to any unnecessary risk but we've been looking forward to meeting in spring. I want to go in May but might have to wait and see how things develop.

I think if I were younger I could do the PUA method but now I may just look like a creepy older man. In my younger days the old asking for directions worked like a charm in every country.

Yeah man, I did go, but they started lock down on apr 10. So half my trip was on lockdown.
What about your trip, did you finally go?
Don't think it's creepy to use PUA techs, just depends where you use them! Ofc if you are chasing girls down
the street you might seem like it, but if you use it cleverly in restaurants, hotels and the like you may have
lots of success as well. Cheers
Life won't get easier. You just have to get stronger.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2021, 01:41:53 AM »
You have a point. And I am aware that men in Russia/Ukraine even go for the
stop the car in the middle of the street sometimes just to chat a girl up and aggressively
ask for her number and stuff like that.

In the case of being a foreigner and trying the Day Game stuff you say it could be counter
productive, however, because of all the SCAMS online I believe it's acceptable to run that
risk instead of being taken for a ride or even assaulted by the criminal organizations there.
I mean, who cares what she thinks about being a player, in the end the right girl will be
welcoming to your approach. On PAY SITES you risk being scammed with the PPLs and also with the
monthly suscription sites, and on the free sites, there's just too many scammers and just
WAY TOO MUCH competition, that the sexual market is already saturated. You are JUST wasting
your precious time online.
I add a screenshot using mamba's live stream feature. A very pretty girl logs in and starts
being flooded with hundreds of guys in less than a minute that i saw her just logging in!!!
Just imagine the amount of competition you can get just trying to hook up with a half attractive
or mediocre girl online, it's just ridiculous!

I personally don't think Mamba is a good site anymore, a few years ago it used to be good but then they changed it from a free site to one with a monthly reoccurring subscription, the reoccurring bit they try to get through on the sly. Then once on it try to screw more money out of you with pointless pay for digital presents (pictures) to send to the girl. Also if you're an older guy it gets difficult messaging younger women because of the age category boxes. I don't mean a lot younger just five years or so if that. Also it originally started as a local dating site for native Russians, Ukrainians so some of the girls really want a native speaker/local and don't know English that well as not all speak it to good fluency. Also some girls will be looking for a guy who is not much older than they are if they joined wanting to find a local guy, the payoff for girls accepting an older
WM is often a better lifestyle abroad. Scammerss and other issues have apparently plagued it as well I would avoid these days too much bother fir little reward.

Fdate is a good free site that I would recommend. Any method of dating will have its advantages and pitfalls. A lot of it depends on how well you learn the game and can accurately recognise what is going on which can be through own skills of the mind and time gaining experience at it. Some guys will unfortunately fall for the same tricks time over again, doesn't matter if they chose to do a tour or online dating site. Some will use a ppl site time over again and not pick up that it's mostly a have on. On the other hand there are guys with enough guile to know how to get a genuine date of a ppl site but these are very few and ppl in general is best avoided.

I can tell on Fdate now what is a genuine girl within a few short messages, even the first one to some extent. That didn't happen overnight it took up to several years to learn it fully. In the early years I learnt a few tale tell signs of a genuine girl but I didn't necessarily get to recognise all warning flags of varying variety, that took longer.

PUA is another interesting way of meeting women. I would tend to avoid it a little now because of my age. I'm in my early to mid forties and it can be difficult looking at a girl and getting her age right on the street or wherever. It's easy to get carried away and start looking at girls in their early twenties not recognise they are so much younger and think you're in with a chance. I fortunately managed to stop myself from any attempt like that but a lot of local girls generally want to date guys their own age, it's just a few that want a life abroad that may accept older. Anyway unless I get good eye contact from a girl out and about I wouldn't contemplate it so a lot of time can be spent walking around. Inner city girls in places like Kiev & Odessa can get fed up of foreigners trying to crack on to them and avoid eye contact, some may see you as a sex tourist. I generally wouldn't do PUA if older than mid to late thirties at the most in most cases due to age difference issues. I think a lot of PUA depends how you go about it, there are YouTube videos of guys doing it but they are pretty extrovert types so I think you've got to match your PUA technique to your personality. Don't try bounding up to a girl and jumping around like a jack in a box if you're not that type of person try a more low key approach then work the situation as best you can I would say. A lot of PUA can be quite difficult in the FSU as takes a guy that has learnt the art well for him and a reasonable location where you're not got a load of people rushing past in a hurry, etc.

Again all these techniques take learning and experience, any can be successful but it's often not something you can master overnight. Some guys get lucky, some have natural skills for a certain technique. For most though it takes time learning it all, it has with me. If deciding to change technique it is again often a case of starting over again at ground zero. I tried changing from meet one to meet many and made several mistakes not realising that there is certain rules that need to be followed when trying to meet many that are different to the rules to meet one. So it's back to square one often with each technique learning as a newbie what works and what doesn't work, that takes time. The guys on here know a lot of stuff and being on here a while you can pick up a lot of info that can be helpful on this, from other sources as well but it still takes time.

People go on tours & use marriage agencies and they can seem a quick short cut but often in the end unless the guy gets lucky they too take time and money to work out how to make them work for you and not get scammed at them. So I would say take your pick and learn what you can on the technique and invest the effort, time & money to make it work for you. Don't expect an easy time of it at first just drifting into it, it takes time getting it wrong, learning what went wrong, learning what to do right next time, learning the environment, etc. I've outlined some issues with PUA here but never got the time and learning it to our it into effect, the virus kicked in and like I say I'm starting to get a bit old for it. I've still not got much greying so if I picked out the grey and got a facial filler job I might be in with a chance but otherwise I would risk being that creepy old guy or cracking onto a lot of older married Women I would reckon lol.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Online 2tallbill

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1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2021, 10:42:59 AM »
Our ways are ancient but that doesn't mean we can't contribute something


The analog part of boy meets girl part has been mostly unchanged since they
allowed women's suffrage. Us Old Married Bastards (OMB's)can still pass on
pearls  of wisdom about that. 

A good girl is a good girl, and was a good girl hasn't changed. So identifying
whether a girl has good character or whether her values match your own are
still the most important things to find. OMB's are still an excellent source of
insight.

Many, many, many men just go after the hottest, youngest, fittest girl that
will agree to go on a date with them. OMB's can offer anecdotes and insight
on finding the best high quality woman.

OMB's can also offer smart, shrewd advice on when a man is wasting his time
or when it is time to kick a girl to the curb. The sunk cost fallacy, the she's just
not into you theory, etc. 

What we can't do is to explain how we used an 8 track tape of Barry White to
get to third base in a car at a drive in theater and how somebody else might
use similar tactics to repeat our experience.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Online 2tallbill

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2021, 11:09:13 AM »
In the case of being a foreigner and trying the Day Game stuff you say it could
be counterproductive, however, because of all the SCAMS online I believe it's
acceptable to run that risk instead of being taken for a ride or even assaulted
by the criminal organizations there.

How does using PUA (pick up artist) tactics reduce scams or increase your
safety?

You have to identify your goal in advance. If your goal is to find the woman
with the highest quality in both character, seriousness, reliability and looks
for a long term relationship/marriage in the FSU then I advise you NOT to
use tactics that are designed for finding short term sexual experiences.

PUA tactics are designed to be used in bars to separate the most sexually
desirable women from their panties. Occasionally you can find a high quality
woman in a bar but you are far more likely to find a barfly.

I mean, who cares what she thinks about being a player, in the end the right
girl will be welcoming to your approach.


Again what is your goal.

You will probably be pushing away the right girl for a long term relationship and
attracting the type of girl suited for a short term roll in the hay.

I'm not going to judge guys who just want an exotic sexual experience. I have
been out of that sort of market for a long time and wouldn't have any advice as
to how to proceed.

My advice is to Don't mix tactics If you want short term, don't use long term
marriage type tactics. If you want Long term, don't use short term PUA tactics.

You worry about mobsters? Stay away from illegal activity and you probably won't
cross paths with them. More girls have brothers, uncles or cousins that would
be offended if you convinced a good girl that you desired marriage when you just
wanted to check her oil.

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline ML

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2021, 11:10:09 AM »

What we can't do is to explain how we used an 8 track tape of Barry White to
get to third base in a car at a drive in theater and how somebody else might
use similar tactics to repeat our experience.

I used cassette of Julio Iglesias in FSU 10-15 years ago.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Online 2tallbill

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1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #57 on: May 30, 2021, 11:27:18 AM »
I used cassette of Julio Iglesias in FSU 10-15 years ago.

I have a niece she is a cute, funny, smart charming girl. I told her about
records and a record player. She asked me how did you burn a record??



FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Patagonie

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2021, 12:42:15 PM »
How does using PUA (pick up artist) tactics reduce scams or increase your
safety?

You have to identify your goal in advance. If your goal is to find the woman
with the highest quality in both character, seriousness, reliability and looks
for a long term relationship/marriage in the FSU then I advise you NOT to
use tactics that are designed for finding short-term sexual experiences.

PUA tactics are designed to be used in bars to separate the most sexually
desirable women from their panties. Occasionally you can find a high quality
woman in a bar but you are far more likely to find a barfly.


Again what is your goal.

You will probably be pushing away the right girl for a long term relationship and
attracting the type of girl suited for a short term roll in the hay.

I'm not going to judge guys who just want an exotic sexual experience. I have
been out of that sort of market for a long time and wouldn't have any advice as
to how to proceed.

My advice is to Don't mix tactics If you want short term, don't use long term
marriage type tactics. If you want Long term, don't use short term PUA tactics.

You worry about mobsters? Stay away from illegal activity and you probably won't
cross paths with them. More girls have brothers, uncles or cousins that would
be offended if you convinced a good girl that you desired marriage when you just
wanted to check her oil.

Udachi!

Bill

Bill, lol, I protest.
 
PUA is identified with two men who got a lot of attention from the media.
John Markovitch, alias Mystery and a Journalist who wrote the game named Neil Strauss. But the book is entirely coming from the Mystery Method. 
But the game, in extenso, is absolutely not only about these two men. And they represent only a part of the sphere of seduction. 
To make it a little short, what you identify as PUA is just the OUTER game, but there is also all the INNER game. A third, or even half of what we call the game in his globality, is about SELF IMPROVEMENT. 
No, gamers don't push away the right girls for a long-term relationship; it's simply that most of the guys, at this specific moment, are only interested in pickups, in ONS, or few nights with a stranger.
   
Many men use a lot of what you call short-term tactics, but it makes no difference for women. There is this belief that such men retrieve only women suited for the short term. THERE IS NO SUCH thing, a lot of gamers end with a middle or long term relationship with a woman (yes, many finish in couple, sometimes with children),
And, they don't have TWO different tactics, one for the long term and another one for the bang.
I HIGHLY PROTEST against this because it doesn't help the guys who are not easy with women and who are the ones who need the most to do the work. And the game is a lot of work.

What is missing for most men is not their serious intentions, but the biggest problem is that they cannot raise enough interest from women they really like. That's their main drama.
Without the game, I would have never married my ex-wife. And would have never been capable of managing my relationship with my last girlfriend.
 
Do only a few women answer you on online dating sites? (your profile is not attractive)
The game can help you.
You want to marry, but you cannot know if the woman is attracted to you?
The game can help you.
Do you have a very low ratio of the second meetings?The game can help you.
You don't know how to build an online communication with western women on Tinder, Bumble, and so on?The game can help you. 
 
Now it's true that international dating offers many challenges in this long journey, and that's better to know your specific goal if you want to have fun, don't talk about marriage to FSU girls. If you want to marry and cannot focus at one moment on ONE specific woman to let grow a possible couple, that will be a recipe for disaster. 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 02:44:38 PM by Patagonie »
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2021, 01:20:43 PM »
I was thinking similar Pat. I think Bill is right in as far as bars and nightclubs go, they are more for ONS or short term relationships. Possibly at some point someone might have got an LTR our of it but the likelyhood for most people is probably very remote. Let's face it if a girl goes to a nightclub or bar one night to be hit on she can easily go any other night to be hit on as well.

I think away from bars is a different matter and during the day. For day game though I wouldn't recommend the extrovert PUA stuff online but a more low key approach. Basically just going up to a girl who has shown interest and talk to her about basic everyday stuff. End of the day that is really how most people did it before internet dating came along.

I think you definitely make a good point Pat in level of interest a girl shows. As I've found its possible to get interest from a girl but it not be enough to get a date, follow up dates or an LTR. Generally I think a girl's interest gas to be pretty strong for it to go the distance and it can probably take a lot. Like you say learning the game by interacting through online dating (or anywhere else) isn't a bad idea. Over the past few years I have learnt stuff and improved as a result I think. Along the way there is a lot of trying different things and seeing what works and what doesn't and improving from there. It can take time but while different approaches have their own stuff that needs to be learned some stuff learned can help overall I think.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline ML

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2021, 01:35:57 PM »
More girls have brothers, uncles or cousins that would be offended if you convinced a good girl that you desired marriage when you just wanted to check her oil.

Actually, I never really thought about this source of potential danger.

Gave me a moment of chills . . . reflecting on what might have happened; even as I never really tried to convince any gal that I desired marriage.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #61 on: May 30, 2021, 02:00:57 PM »
Actually, I never really thought about this source of potential danger.

Gave me a moment of chills . . . reflecting on what might have happened;
even as I never really tried to convince any gal that I desired marriage.

If you never intentionally mislead anybody then you never intentionally mislead
anybody. It's when you intentionally mislead women that you get the woman
scorned effect, leading to problems.

That's why I advised using the tactics that fit the goals.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 02:03:38 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline iloveukrayinkas

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #62 on: July 28, 2021, 08:02:30 PM »
Woah, quite a discussion that continued after my last message here.
Have been busy in other stuff lately.
Gotta catch up later and reply!
Life won't get easier. You just have to get stronger.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #63 on: July 29, 2021, 12:25:15 AM »
Woah, quite a discussion that continued after my last message here.
Have been busy in other stuff lately.
Gotta catch up later and reply!

Reckon since you started this thread a good way to hook a Ukrainian girl would now be to offer a vaccine jab if she agrees to date you :D There apparently back to being dirt poor out there and most can't afford a vaccine jab themselves & the state us too skint to pay for many jabs either. The US & UK are donating some vaccine but still way too short of what they need.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

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"French Accent advantage"
« Reply #64 on: August 07, 2021, 11:11:12 AM »

Bill, lol, I protest.
 
PUA is identified with two men who got a lot of attention from the media.

I understand that you are in favor of using these tactics, I've used cocky/funny
a million times before I even knew it was a thing. 95% of the single men in the
FSU use PUA tactics and they have far better Russian language skills.

My advice is to use the perception that Western men treat women better to your
advantage along with your "French Accent advantage*"


What is the "French Accent advantage"

You are a foreigner and therefore a little different and a little bit mysterious and sexy.
Your French/English American accent does nothing for you in your home country because
everyone sounds like you, but outside of your country you are a little bit exotic. USE THAT!!

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Patagonie

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Re: "French Accent advantage"
« Reply #65 on: August 26, 2021, 03:01:41 PM »
I understand that you favor using these tactics; I've used cocky/funny
a million times before I even knew it was a thing. 95% of the single men in the
FSU use PUA tactics and they have far better Russian language skills.

My advice is to use the perception that Western men treat women better to your
advantage along with your "French Accent advantage*"


What is the "French Accent advantage"

You are a foreigner and therefore a little different and a little bit mysterious and sexy.
Your French/English American accent does nothing for you in your home country because
everyone sounds like you, but outside of your country you are a little bit exotic. USE THAT!!

Udachi!

Bill

There is a little more than the french accent. There is an old prestige coming before the first world war and still alive. Knowing the language is still prestigious, and you will meet quite a lot of words in Russian, basically the same as in french. Luxe industry, fashion, most visited country by the number of people (America first by the budget) France still has a name. And so on... 
So there is a real french presence in Ukraine, in many details. I don't know in Russia, but I believe that's the same, at least. 
This is what I have noticed last 11 years.
I have also noticed some pro /german pro/American pro/Italian daters among FSU women. 


Don't mislead my post,
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

 

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