Do you ever wonder why learning Russian is close to impossible?

[ISORW]

LOL gabaub you are right, I wrote that quickly before leaving the house and as my g/f and I were getting on the mashrutka I realized I said "I have 2 kopecks" and not "my 2 kopecks..." I figured someone would catch my gaff pretty quickly.

[mendeleyev]

ISORW, it sounds like you are in Russia or Ukraine now so remember to snap lots of sign photos--share them with me sometime!  I teach two low-level Rus 101 type classes and love to use multi-media (youtube, etc), internet resources, and street and advertising signs as the visuals tend to hold attention longer and make the language 'real' for beginners.


1- One says 'cashier' and one says 'enter'
2- Don't implement Putin's plan (literally it says "plan Putin not implement")
3- молоко = Milk
4- Polaroid store

Note:  #3 молоко (milk) is a great example of the grammar/spelling rule on O.  The letter O is only spoken as an O when part of a stressed syllable.  At all other times it is written as O but pronounced as an 'ah' (A).  Milk has 3 letters O's but only the last one is spoken as an O.  Milk is молоко, mah-lah-KO.

Another example:  A common female name is Olesya (Олеся).  Its normal to look at this transliteration and want to say it like we see it, Oh-lesya.  However a Russian word can only stress one syllable.  The stress in this word is on the second syllable and so the O in her name is spoken as 'ah' and so it should sound like this: ahLYEHsya. 

Here is a great resource/cheatsheet if you wish to be certain you are pronouncing your lady's name correctly:  http://www.masterrussian.com/aa031001a.shtml

[ISORW]

mendeleyev , I'll try to get some pics, I am here in Ukraine for 30 days but I am leaving Friday morning so my time is running out fast.  The only problem is that many of the signs are in Ukrainian and not Russian as they frown upon Russian signs in public.  Poka .

[mendeleyev]

ISORW, you're right about the signs, especially the advertising.  Just recently the President gave a fairly strong speech about Ukrainian being the ONE language of Ukraine.  Although many of the street/traffic signs are the same in both languages.

Looking forward also to your TR!

[groovlstk]

During my first trip to Ukraine, I privately wondered what a PECTOPAH was and why there were so many in the city's center...

Talk about embarrassing!

[Blues Fairy]

2- Don't implement Putin's plan (literally it says "plan Putin not implement")

Actually it says "Putin's plan does not impress".  It's a colloquial expression.

[ISORW]

During my first trip to Ukraine, I privately wondered what a PECTOPAH was and why there were so many in the city's center...

Talk about embarrassing!

PECTOPAH is the most famous chain of Russian and Ukrainian restaurants with a great variety of food ranging from inexpensive to very expensive.  Their success is due to their ability to appeal to a wide range of tastes and budgets and their flexibility in a variety of ethnic menus.

Seriously I'd heard a story about 6 years ago about some Americans who, after their trip to Russia, commented how they visited the chain of PECTOPAH restaurants lol.

[Jet]

During my first trip to Ukraine, I privately wondered what a PECTOPAH was and why there were so many in the city's center...

Talk about embarrassing!

Yep, guilty too!
Starving and wandering around downtown N. Novgorod looking for a кафе to grab a bite to eat and must have passed a dozen signs that said ресторан before switching alphabets in my brain.
 :selfharm:
When learning the alphabet I had little trouble with letters that looked different & sounded different (ж,ц,я,щ) or looked different but made the same sound as English (ф,л,п,и) but the ones that killed me were the ones that looked the same as English but made a different sound (р,н,с,у). I struggled with that for a while! Interestingly enough, little Kolya does the exact same in reverse, substituting C for S and P for R in his homework assignments sometimes.

[SANDRO43]

the ones that killed me were the ones that looked the same as English but made a different sound (р,н,с,у).

Because you are not Greek .

Saint Clement of Ohrid (Свети Климент Охридски) was a Bulgarian disciple of Saint Cyril and Saint Methodius (who invented Glagolitic, the oldest known Slavic alphabet) is the reputed developer of Cyrillic: he shrewdly simplified his task by using 15 Greek letters to represent similar Russian sounds, and invented different symbols for Russian sounds alien to Greek.

[SANDRO43]

I think I'll put both our contributions into the RWDpedia, when Dan solves some after-server-relocation problems afflicting it .

Done, the RWDpedia is now back at your service .

[mendeleyev]

BF, by jove you're right.  I failed to notice the ending (вставляет) of the verb which normally means to 'put in, insert, implement.'  In this form it's the "don't/doesn't" change that constitutes the idiom when combined with the 'ет' subjugation.  'Putin plan doesn't implement' would make no sense but as you say, the 'doesn't impress' makes sense and is a commonly used expression.

Thanks for the correction!

[Olgam]

PECTOPAH is the most famous chain of Russian and Ukrainian restaurants with a great variety of food ranging from inexpensive to very expensive.  Their success is due to their ability to appeal to a wide range of tastes and budgets and their flexibility in a variety of ethnic menus.

Seriously I'd heard a story about 6 years ago about some Americans who, after their trip to Russia, commented how they visited the chain of PECTOPAH restaurants lol.

This is really funny. Certainly PECTOPAH is not a network, it is just a Russian word for a restaurant.  I think this may happen to anyone who goes to a foreign country and doesn't speak the language. Once my friend was in Poland and there were many buildings there named SKLEP and "sklep" in Russian means crypt, so she kept wondering why they have crypts all around the city. But later she found out that sklep in Polish means shop It was after she saw a guy coming out of it with food
As for learning Russian, the language is thought to be the most difficult to learn after Chinese, but it doesn't mean that, you guys, should give up learning. Lots depends on motivation and will power, and practice too.

[SANDRO43]

As for learning Russian, the language is thought to be the most difficult to learn after Chinese

I'd say that some non-Indo-European languages, e.g. a Semitic one like Arabic, are far harder than Russian: you have fewer familiar points of linguistic reference .

[Misha]

I'd say that some non-Indo-European languages, e.g. a Semitic one like Arabic, are far harder than Russian: you have fewer familiar points of linguistic reference .

I would have to vote for Hungarian and other Finno-Ugrian languages as being much more difficult to learn than Russian. Hungarian is an agglutinative language which creates meaning by building up a number of "affixes" to a given root. Not only is the way that meaning created completely different than either Russian or English, Hungarian has up to 18 different cases.  Learning Hungarian or any other of the Finno-Ugrian languages would be much harder IMHO than learning Russian.

[2tallbill]

I would have to vote for Hungarian and other Finno-Ugrian languages as being much more difficult to learn than Russian. Hungarian is an agglutinative language which creates meaning by building up a number of "affixes" to a given root. Not only is the way that meaning created completely different than either Russian or English, Hungarian has up to 18 different cases.  Learning Hungarian or any other of the Finno-Ugrian languages would be much harder IMHO than learning Russian.

I have also heard that Russian is the second hardest but from the same person I was told that iced tea would surely kill me.

[Jet]

I would have to vote for Hungarian and other Finno-Ugrian languages as being much more difficult to learn than Russian.

I have lived in the town that has the largest concentration of Finnish in the US (Lantana, FL) and the one thing that struck me, was that even when native speakers talk fluently, it sounds like they're having difficulties.

[Pike]

During my first trip to Ukraine, I privately wondered what a PECTOPAH was and why there were so many in the city's center...

Talk about embarrassing!

PECTOPAH is a large restaruant chain like Dennys or Applebee in USA.  They have hundreds of outlets in all cities of FSU.

Oooooppps, after posting the above, I read rest of thread and saw that someone had already mention this restaurant chain.  I was able to modify before too late.

[Ronnie]

I have lived in the town that has the largest concentration of Finnish in the US (Lantana, FL) and the one thing that struck me, was that even when native speakers talk fluently, it sounds like they're having difficulties.

Had a Finnish GF in college and you're right about the way it sounds.  After all, a simple "I love you" becomes a labored; "Minδ rakastan sinua" 
Way too many syllables....so I did the only rational thing and dumped her beautiful, blonde popka.  :selfharm:

[Bluebell]

I would have to vote for Hungarian and other Finno-Ugrian languages as being much more difficult to learn than Russian. Hungarian is an agglutinative language which creates meaning by building up a number of "affixes" to a given root. Not only is the way that meaning created completely different than either Russian or English, Hungarian has up to 18 different cases.  Learning Hungarian or any other of the Finno-Ugrian languages would be much harder IMHO than learning Russian.

Gabaub, may I ask you how comes you know so much about Hungarian language? 

[Markus]

If there was a section for chatting about learning Russian, I would read it quite often.
I visit masterrussian.com and their forum is a bunch of youngsters learning Russian
for school. And I can tell you, I have a couple of coworkers who studied Russian and
said they can speak it, so I let them talk to my wife. My wife said she had no idea what
they were saying.

I've studied Russian a bit myself, and have Russian TV at home. But, I just got back
from Russia 6 days ago and my wife and I visited many friends and relatives. Oh, I could
hear a thank you, a number or two, the word tomorrow, and many other words that I
know. But, I didn't understand a bit of the conversation. Now, I'll admit, I haven't
applied myself to studying Russian as a second language. I've just dabbed around
here and there. But it hasn't been enough to carry on a decent conversation.

So, maybe Dan will create a section for this topic?

Mark

[Kuna]

If there was a section for chatting about learning Russian, I would read it quite often.
I visit masterrussian.com and their forum is a bunch of youngsters learning Russian
for school. And I can tell you, I have a couple of coworkers who studied Russian and
said they can speak it, so I let them talk to my wife. My wife said she had no idea what
they were saying.

I've studied Russian a bit myself, and have Russian TV at home. But, I just got back
from Russia 6 days ago and my wife and I visited many friends and relatives. Oh, I could
hear a thank you, a number or two, the word tomorrow, and many other words that I
know. But, I didn't understand a bit of the conversation. Now, I'll admit, I haven't
applied myself to studying Russian as a second language. I've just dabbed around
here and there. But it hasn't been enough to carry on a decent conversation.

So, maybe Dan will create a section for this topic?

Mark

I like it...  and it'd be extra motivation for me to visit more often.

I'm not in search mode anymore...  had a dream run with the visa...  married happily...  but I STILL have to improve my Russian.

[Misha]

Gabaub, may I ask you how comes you know so much about Hungarian language? 

My interest is in the Finno-Ugrian languages which includes Hungarian. When I was growing up on the farm, one of neighbors was Hungarian.

[mendeleyev]

Mark, you can accomplish quite a lot by yourself since you have a Russian wife to guide you.  Here is something I've handed out to students before and will tell you that it's been over 6 months since all the links were checked for accuracy.  I've taught/moderated two on-line Russian classes and they're fun but a bear because everyone is at a different level.  (Sorry, am very committed to current projects and not able to develop yet another.)


If useful, take this list for what it's worth.  Maybe some of these resources will be of help to you.


Russian Language Study Resources Guide
By Mendeleyev

There is an excellent program on-line thru Moscow State University.  Its advantages are that it is inexpensive at $49 per module, done with a combination of homework lessons and at least one session weekly with a live tutor via Skype, and it comes with a certificate diploma from the most prestigious University in Russia. 

The certificate is not the same as an official degree but it can carry some weight for persons wishing to use their English skills to teach in the FSU or to gain employment at a Russian firm or start a business in Russia.  If one started at the beginning the course could run up to 18-20 months on a slow but consistent pace or much quicker if you are willing to fast track the course. 

Right now there are two levels:  Beginning and Intermediate.  An advanced addition to the course is in the planning stages.  The beautiful thing is that they integrate some Russian culture and history to teach you language so you get a more well-rounded education while learning the language skills. The beginner lessons are very easy.  Here is the link:

http://onlinerussian.net/

The program begins with 8 beginner modules and 7 Intermediate modules (with Advanced on the way). Classes range from 4 to 10 lessons per module depending on complexity. At $49 per module, using Skype, you could have a University (18 month to two year) level language certificate for around $750.


Other Russian University on-line programs:
http://www.myrussian.ru/content/view/56/59/lang,en/


Free lessons also available at:
http://www.trymango.com/               
http://www.russianlessons.net/   (I really like the grammar help on this one)
www.word2word.com
http://listen2russian.com/
www.aspoonfulofrussian.com
www.masterrussian.com
http://www.ilike2learn.com/ilike2learn/russian/
http://learnrussian.elanguageschool.net/
http://russian.speak7.com/
http://www.privyet.org.uk/
http://www.unbound.ru/2b/russian2.html
http://www.mylanguageexchange.com/Learn/Russian.asp
http://www.101languages.net/russian/basics.html
http://www.open-of-course.org/
http://practicerussian.com


Additional resources include:
http://www.declan-software.com/russian/wordfiles_russian.htm
http://babel.uoregon.edu/russian/
http://www.uni.edu/becker/Russian2.html#photos
http://www.alphadictionary.com/rusgrammar/index.html
http://www.ilearnwords.com/
http://www.russianclass.co.uk/
http://www.russlandjournal.de/en/russian/language-exercises/key-expressions.html#
http://russian.dmll.cornell.edu/grammar/subject_win.htm
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Bookstore/3230/
http://www.auburn.edu/~mitrege/RWT/welcome.html
http://www.languagehelpers.com/members/russian/online/languagehelper.html
http://www.flashcardexchange.com/tag/Russian
http://www.single-serving.com/Russian/
http://www.languagehelpers.com/Russian/TheRussianAlphabet.html
http://www.esl-languages.com/en/study-abroad/online-tests/russian-test/index.htm
http://www.siber.com/sib/russify/
http://russian.dmll.cornell.edu/rdt/index.htm
http://www.languageguide.org/russian/
http://www.talkrussian.com/podcast.htm
www.omniglot.com/writing/russian.htm
www.talkrussian.com
http://langintro.com
www.ruslang.com


Best College level textbooks (but easy for busy guys to handle/understand):
Learn Russian the Fast and Fun Way (Fast and Fun Way Series) by Thomas R. Beyer Jr. Ph.D. -- Considered the most common text/workbook used in community colleges in the USA for beginning Russian classes.  Excellent!  You will learn to read, write, listen and speak with correct grammar.  Note:  If you find it on Ebay or Amazon make sure the cassettes or CDs come with it.  It’s a textbook and workbook all in one large plastic bound box and is great especially as the listening and speaking practice is invaluable.  With audio included with the work book you can do this at home.

Golosa: A Basic Course in Russian, Book 1 (3rd Edition) by Richard M. Robin, Karen Evans-Romaine, Galina Shatalina, and Joanna M. Robin.

Russian for Dummies (For Dummies (Language & Literature)) by Andrew Kaufman -- excellent book. 

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Learning Russian, 2nd Edition (Complete Idiot's Guide to) by Christopher Froehlich. Great for grammar in a way we idiots can understand it.

Live From Moscow/Russian Stage One -- probably one of the best at University level, yet with the ability to use it by yourself at home.  Hardback textbook and large paperback workbook with 2 CD's and one VHS.  Combines visual, audio, video, and you'll learn to read, speak and write as well as hear/see as you learn.  However, it's been discontinued from active printing and if you buy it on Ebay or Amazon, make certain that the VHS, CDs (or cassettes) are included with the text and workbook...otherwise the learning value diminishes quickly.  Getting hard to find the complete package.  There is a stage Two for advanced students.

Teach Yourself Beginner's Russian Script by Daphne West --  learn how to write cursive Russian since it's very different from printed Russian lettering.  Many of you know that Russians rarely print, they write everything from love letters to grocery lists in long-hand cursive.  Cyrillic cursive is very different from printed letters.  Very helpful book!

The Everything Russian Practice Book: Simple Techniques to Improve Your Speaking And Writing Skills (Everything: Language and Literature) - Paperback (Jan 2007) by Nina Wieda.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

One of the very best ways to learn Russian as a beginner is to watch the Russian lessons on YouTube by Victor Dmitrievitch Huliganov.  (Those who understand Russian will understand the play on his last name.)

His lessons are a combination of serious learning and humour, and most will find this a good combination to learn quickly.  Each lesson is concluded with a joke or poem and then a song (yes, he does the singing!).  On a serious note he is a highly regarded professor, but very eccentric and very, very funny with his accent and use of humour.

All the lessons of Series One and Series Two are now available on YouTube.  You can search them by his name or by RL 101 and RL 102.  The RL 101 series teaches the alphabet and the concepts behind it and the RL 102 series is for beginning grammar.  Here is RL 101 – Lesson One, an introduction to the idea of learning Russian and a little about the Cyrillic alphabet: 




Suggested Lesson Plan:

1) Use www.tryMango.com as your basic study and practice guide and supplement it with other resources.  Mango shows the Cyrillic spelling unlike a lot of other programs so it teaches you to understand the written language as well.  Mango also has excellent pronunciation and it's important to learn where to place the stress on various words.

2) Add material from www.russianlessons.net for supplementary homework or projects.  Use the "homework" to learn to master the alphabet, how to use numbers/counting, pronounce names/titles of relatives, how to tell time, and some other basic things you won't get consistently in Mango.   This supplemental homework will also take you further in your ability to put sentences and phrases together.

3) Search YOUTUBE.com for RL101 and the other Russian lessons in both the RL 101 and the RL 102 series.  He’s eccentric but you will learn a lot while being entertained.

4)  Test your progress using www.practicerussian.com   This site has a wealth of on-line quizzes and tests.

[Jet]

Wow! What a great post mendeleyev! That should be stickied by itself somewhere (once all the links are checked).
Thanks for taking the time to share so many resources 

[Andrew]

When I first began trying to learn Russian I had a major problem, (still have many major problems with it), but this problem kept cracking me up.
как = how ........ok no problem, we can all accept this simple word...........
BUT in one of the primary languages of my country, kak = sh!t
Yes, I know....I am juvenile, but hell it was hard to get past that one!