Is it usual for Ukrainian Women to be inaffectionate when starting relationship?

[mies]

I am told there are altercations and bombings in Odessa that are not shown in Western media. Hard to say whether true or not from where I am many times, but Jay sent me a link the other day and the Azov Battalion has moved into the city in anticipation of new events.

some verified/reliable facebook communities provide regular information updates on the events.

This woman lives in Odessa and writes an art blog for many years, in the last 2 years she started posting there regular Odessa and Crimea news updates with the tag "chronicles of gaseous gangrene": http://levkonoe.livejournal.com/tag/%D1%85%D1%80
%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%
B8%20%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%BE%
D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%20%D0%B3%D0%
B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8B

you can probably write her and ask whether stories about bombings are true or not.

As for Azov battalion - I remember hearing that part of it went to Odessa some time ago. Maybe they added reinforcement recently.


Edited link so reading pane not affected - Anonmod

[mies]

I just really wanted a more relaxed setting by the sea, sea breezes, beach, getting away from the hustle and bustle a bit.

also on the topic of Odessa, and unrelated to any political events: Odessa is the opposite of what you describe. Imagine going to NYC during hot summer to get sea breeze and away from hustle and bustle. :-) well, Odessa is not as bad as NYC, but it is a vibrant, lively, crazy city, full of noise, smell, people, more people, even more people, beaches are packed, screaming children, more noise, everyone talks loudly and fast, acidic jokes are in big fashion. The city dazzles you and steals your heart but it isn't quiet. I still chuckle when I think of my last trip there. I was in a grocery story, large chain, several cashier registers at the exit. I bought some food, the bill was too high, almost double or even triple of what it was supposed to be. I told the cashier that she must have made a mistake, and asked her to double check. She is reluctant, then she tells me "ok, so how much you want to pay?"  It was so hilarious that i couldn't even get angry at her for her attempt to steal money from me. We kept "negotiating" with her for about 10-15 minutes. I kept insisting that I want to pay exactly the price of the items I bought, and she was trying to squeeze out of my wallet few extra hryvnas. We finally discovered that while I bought one 1-portion stick of solvable coffee (among fruits, bread, cheese, vegetables, meat etc.), she rang 41 of them. And even after we discovered it, she refused to subtract the extras for some time. I kept telling her "there is only one coffee, don't you see?" and she was responding "I don't know, it's says 41 on the bill. so would you like to pay 20 UAH less than I initially said?" 

I highly recommend reading Isaak Babel's "Odessa Tales" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Odessa_Tales). Almost 100 years has passed since he wrote them, and they are still spot on about city spirit and vibe.

[jone]

Shoulda taken the 41 coffees.  You never know when you will need a caffeine fix.

[alex330]

some verified/reliable facebook communities provide regular information updates on the events.

This woman lives in Odessa and writes an art blog for many years, in the last 2 years she started posting there regular Odessa and Crimea news updates with the tag "chronicles of gaseous gangrene": http://levkonoe.livejournal.com/

you can probably write her and ask whether stories about bombings are true or not.

Thanks for the link. Another good source for me
Wife Skypes with friends and family in Odessa but many times they do not discuss events like this. Most pretend they do not exist.

Some of the bombings and events are certainly true. Part of the Azov group is stationed near MIL home on the outskirts of the airport.
Same area as the WWII lines were stationed they tell me.

[mies]

Shoulda taken the 41 coffees.  You never know when you will need a caffeine fix.

That was an option, indeed, but negotiations with the cashier were much more fun 

[mies]

Thanks for the link. Another good source for me
Wife Skypes with friends and family in Odessa but many times they do not discuss events like this. Most pretend they do not exist.

Some of the bombings and events are certainly true. Part of the Azov group is stationed near MIL home on the outskirts of the airport.
Same area as the WWII lines were stationed they tell me.

here is a recent news piece on explosives and ammunition storage discovered in Odessa: http://www.od.npu.gov.ua/ru/publish/article/314965

from this news batch: http://levkonoe.livejournal.com/9699855.html

[dragonkid]

And this is based off of what, your experience?

Better than the crap you some of you guys posted. some of you told him to jump boat, the girl doesn't want him. I knew Trench had his hands in his pockets, and was left wondering why he didn't get anything from the girl. THe girl even called him out for being strange and not hitting on her. I told him to go there and actually be bold, and no mess about being shy, there is being a gent, and then there is just being a shy guy.Trench has no idea on the financial responsibility this girl will put him in. He has to cover $500 a month for the girls parents,  that is just if nothing goes wrong. Plus she has expenses, he shouldn't expect her to work, because she won't, and she won't live like a monk either. She has needs, if he can't deal with $1.5k a month, he should abort. Find a girl that has money, Somebody with transferable skills is a bonus, trench has no idea, because he hasn't spoke to her about the numbers.

[GuppyCaptain]

Aloha, FLUF () driver, my lady is an internally displaced person from an eastern border city, Luhansk. When hybrid warfare activity began there, she and her daughter got out (June 2014) and relocated, with me, to the calm and peaceful Lviv. She's eternally grateful and happy not to be in the violent chaos of the 'liberated' "Lugansk People's Republic", subjected to such garbage moskal propaganda as this link:

http://02varvara.wordpress.com/tag/lnr/

Would you and your lady consider relocating westward in Ukraine? Lviv is fantastic!

What?! What'd you say? I can't hear you.......been flying the FLUF too long 

Yeah, that link.........quite amusing garbage. Anyway, we haven't had this discussion yet about what to do if the Russians that are innocently vacationing in her area decide to pick up arms that were not sent across the border by Russia. It's certainly on my list of topics to discuss during our upcoming two weeks together. I really want to visit Lviv and will probably suggest that she takes her daughter and bails out to either there or Kyiv if things got bad enough. However, given my current situation here in the States I'd be crazy to leave. I count my lucky stars as the saying goes.

[cc3]

Hey GC, I've got more three-holer time than Guppy time. It was a lot louder, especially over .8 Mach.

I realize you would be insane to give up your profession to reside in UA. When I write of relocation, I'm talking part-time for you and full time for your UW (until she gets her immigration visa to the US). For many reasons, Lviv, in my opinion, is far better than Kyiv. PM me when you have definite plans to visit Lviv. My wife and I would be happy to show you our great town, and I'll fill you in on my perceived reasons to favor Lviv.

[GuppyCaptain]

Hey GC, I've got more three-holer time than Guppy time. It was a lot louder, especially over .8 Mach.

I realize you would be insane to give up your profession to reside in UA. When I write of relocation, I'm talking part-time for you and full time for your UW (until she gets her immigration visa to the US). For many reasons, Lviv, in my opinion, is far better than Kyiv. PM me when you have definite plans to visit Lviv. My wife and I would be happy to show you our great town, and I'll fill you in on my perceived reasons to favor Lviv.

Thanks. I truly appreciate the invite and if we find ourselves in Lviv then we'll certainly look you guys up. You and I can do what we do best.......talk about airplanes when we're with women and talk about women when we're flying airplanes ;-) You know how that goes...... 

Oh, I can definitely see why you'd favor Lviv over Kyiv. It seems like a charming little city, much like some others in EE. Things are progressing quite well and I'm cautiously optimistic about our future, but if she made the move she'd stay close to her family until it was time to make the Big Move. I don't yet know what her thoughts are of bailing out of Eastern Ukraine should Russian vacationers decide to holiday there as well.

[Trenchcoat]

Ok, time to wrap this thread up. Looks like the girl just uses dating sites to get free holidays here and there, perhaps just to get her out of the dire place where she lives (Mariupol). On that count I don't hold it against her but it screws up the guys looking for a real relationship which is what we go on these sites for. So in a way if is a soft scam but a scam all the same, like I say scamming techniques are evolving out there as people wise up and girls get more clever at playing the system. I have reason to believe that her saying her father was retiring was all scam to get me/push me to stump up cash as a regular payment to her without her actually asking for it but me offering so hence avoiding clear evidence of scamming. Now that further holidays are not on the table and no money forthcoming communication has become much slower and erratic to say the least, so much so that it is pretty much a done concern I think. Still I liked her & enjoyed my time with her and Kiev though the ones of you that stated it was a non runner all those weeks ago back when I was in that hotel room in Kiev were of course right. Smilie Eyes looks like it is something to be on your guard about as it seems girls perhaps just put it on to fool guys, apparently it can be learned, looked up some sites on the internet on it. I put this up here so that other guys are not drawn into the same or similar scam as its a weird place to be to say the least (perhaps we should have a sticky on the evolving nature of scams as they come up). Anyway for me I'm not going to let this put me off, it means it's time to rethink about my approach and move on.

[dragonkid]

Sad to hear, it is a numbers game, you sound like you are a decent guy, you will eventually find someone. 

[BillyB]

Looks like the girl just uses dating sites to get free holidays here and there, perhaps just to get her out of the dire place where she lives (Mariupol).

It's safe to say she isn't the shy, nice girl you thought she was if she's willing to meet strangers anywhere in the world. I'm not sure she's willing to leave Mariupol permanently otherwise she'd marry the first guy she meets. She just wants a little adventure at someone else's expense.

On that count I don't hold it against her but it screws up the guys looking for a real relationship which is what we go on these sites for. So in a way if is a soft scam but a scam all the same, like I say scamming techniques are evolving out there as people wise up and girls get more clever at playing the system.

I do hold it against her because she knows you and other men are looking for love and she's wasting your and their time and money for her benefit. She knows exactly what she's doing.

I know it wasn't easy for you to come back and tell us you misread her but it's a learning experience that will benefit you and other newbies out there. On the bright side, you're better prepared now to recognize sincere women and how they should behave with you if they like you. Any woman that gives you doubt about where you stand with her, move on. As the veterans here always say, "If an FSU woman is into you, you'll know it".

[Trenchcoat]

Sad to hear, it is a numbers game, you sound like you are a decent guy, you will eventually find someone. 

Thanks DK appreciate it  Yeah on that count I'm thinking of a write many visit many approach, say write a week or so beforehand and do the 'interviewing' there. Would like to do a tour but this year it's the time and money as I've got other concerns to put money to at the moment so 2k on a tour which is around what many seem to charge would need to be put of till next year I think. This year I think I can still get in a second run of it by using the write many visit many approach, say go to Odessa maybe in early August make a bit of a beach holiday out of it. Doing it this way would also free me up for meeting any girls on the fly a little like your planning I guess.

[dragonkid]

Thanks DK appreciate it  Yeah on that count I'm thinking of a write many visit many approach, say write a week or so beforehand and do the 'interviewing' there. Would like to do a tour but this year it's the time and money as I've got other concerns to put money to at the moment so 2k on a tour which is around what many seem to charge would need to be put of till next year I think. This year I think I can still get in a second run of it by using the write many visit many approach, say go to Odessa maybe in early August make a bit of a beach holiday out of it. Doing it this way would also free me up for meeting any girls on the fly a little like your planning I guess.

Sounds good, the tour is the only thing i would say you wouldn't need. If you got the money to burn, why not? But i would do the following first
-Sign up to a variety of sites (Pay and free, don't leave any site out)
- Get your photos in order, maybe go and get some professional photos done, groupon does it for £20. First impressions count.

[Trenchcoat]

It's safe to say she isn't the shy, nice girl you thought she was if she's willing to meet strangers anywhere in the world. I'm not sure she's willing to leave Mariupol permanently otherwise she'd marry the first guy she meets. She just wants a little adventure at someone else's expense.

I do hold it against her because she knows you and other men are looking for love and she's wasting your and their time and money for her benefit. She knows exactly what she's doing.

I know it wasn't easy for you to come back and tell us you misread her but it's a learning experience that will benefit you and other newbies out there. On the bright side, you're better prepared now to recognize sincere women and how they should behave with you if they like you. Any woman that gives you doubt about where you stand with her, move on. As the veterans here always say, "If an FSU woman is into you, you'll know it".

This is all true, I'm surprised she doesn't want to leave mariupol as if doesn't sound nice there plus if the Russians invade things could get a lot worse. I don't think she's a slapper behind the scenes, she's pretty stiff, I think she uses if though as an excuse not to get close to guys. It's no fun for the guys as I'm pretty sure she has done it to others as she mentioned some other guy she met abroad and no doubt he was paying for her airfare, hotel, etc. Yes it grinds me that she us getting in the way of guys seeking a committed fulfilling relationship and giving them scant regard. Anyway, like you say it should help me to weed out this type of behaviour in the future and look to the usual signs that a girl is interested in you or like you say move quickly on. I most appreicate your input on this also it's good to have some help on all of this.

[Trenchcoat]

Sounds good, the tour is the only thing i would say you wouldn't need. If you got the money to burn, why not? But i would do the following first
-Sign up to a variety of sites (Pay and free, don't leave any site out)
- Get your photos in order, maybe go and get some professional photos done, groupon does it for £20. First impressions count.

Yeah will probably do a cheap pay monthly one as like you said before some girls appear on EM anyway. Will choose them just from Odessa choose the one that look like they might do it for me chemistry wise go there and meet them interview style and try and have a fun short holiday of it. The tour I'm in two minds about as I'm not sure if it would end up an expensive might club experience with no joy so am leaving that to next year, but if it were to work out this year then it would not be needed. I've used groupon before but did not know they did professional photography so thank you for that I may look into it. I tried to get my brother to do some but he is pretty formless on that front, lol. I know some say it is better to use decent photos as you are so might see how that goes first.

[BillyB]

I think I can still get in a second run of it by using the write many visit many approach, say go to Odessa maybe in early August make a bit of a beach holiday out of it.

Don't let a city dictate where that special girl may be. Write to a lot a women. Don't rush to see them. Phone and Skype with some who seem interested in you and you will filter some out and some will filter you out. A few may remain that will seem interested in you and will continue to invest their time communicating with you. If you hop on a plane too fast, you're just visiting strangers. You can date 20-30 girls and maybe only one will be compatible with you and like you at the same time. You date many women and you may not even find one you can share your life with. Then you're back to square one. Use a variety of sites and write a massive amount of women. Plan a visit when you find at least one girl who is thrilled to hear your voice everytime you call.

[ML]

Plan a visit when you find at least one girl who is thrilled to hear your voice every time you call.

To help speed up this process, invest in a voice synthesizer that causes you to sound like Barry White . . . or some such.

[ML]

I have been waiting patiently for someone else to point it out; but after 300 + posts it appears I must be the one.

The word is unaffectionate.

[msmobyone]

Don't let a city dictate where that special girl may be. Write to a lot a women. Don't rush to see them. Phone and Skype with some who seem interested in you and you will filter some out and some will filter you out. A few may remain that will seem interested in you and will continue to invest their time communicating with you. If you hop on a plane too fast, you're just visiting strangers. You can date 20-30 girls and maybe only one will be compatible with you and like you at the same time. You date many women and you may not even find one you can share your life with. Then you're back to square one. Use a variety of sites and write a massive amount of women. Plan a visit when you find at least one girl who is thrilled to hear your voice everytime you call.

Trenchcoat, I'm sorry it didn't work out.
]
Billy's advice - about writing to a massive amount of women is not your style [ or mine ] - I'm guessing - as you'd need a spreadsheet or an incredible memory to remember vital info you are told in a conversation - which will be apparent - and you'll swiftly be dropped off the candidate list..

His advice - if adapted to writing to as many as you can remember, incl. where they live and kids - if any's - names... then wheedling down to ones that can't wait to hear from you - perhaps re-starting the process - to wheedle more down - might work.....

For sure don't limit your search by city or even country.


I think you are a 'softie' - I mean that in a kind way - and you need to find someone that appreciated that.

Be yourself. This is supposed to be fun for both parties.

[dragonkid]

I think Billy is right, you need to use a variety of sites, and not be limited to pick either russia or ukraine.When i said it is a numbers game, i meant it, you need to message many, from various sites. i have connected with women found on mamba,fdating,russiancupid,and ukrainedate, all the four sites that i use, you never know who you find. not all women have profiles on alll dating sites, sometimes one is enough for them, and in your case you will need to pray to god that it is EM. Use that money, join all the free and pay monthly sites within reason. Find someone you connect with, once you do, go to that country, organise meetups with other girls, but for the first few days focus on the girl you like, if it doesn't work go on to the next girl.


My future plan
- Join all the dating sites there is
- message only women that meet my physical expectations
- when i find someone that i really like, get on the plane within 2 weeks, send some flowers to her place
- I will go to a city that is central, encourage her to come to me, to try and get her to invest a lot in the relationship initially. It makes it easier for relationship to progress, and for you to find others if this doesn't work out.
- organise 2 other women to come a few days after the first, just incase it doesn't work out
- go from there, if i don't like her, go approach women in public and bars, till the next woman arrives.

I agree with Msb, you shouldn't meet many women at the same time. It seems very bad for me, just focus on one at a time.

[GuppyCaptain]

And if the woman you're going to see is struggling to make ends meet because she earns $150/month are you still going to insist that she comes to meet you in a neutral city even though she can't afford to take unpaid time off from work? 

I don't think you appreciate the severity of many of these woman's lives in the FSU. I'm left scratching my head how they them manage to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.

[dragonkid]

And if the woman you're going to see is struggling to make ends meet because she earns $150/month are you still going to insist that she comes to meet you in a neutral city even though she can't afford to take unpaid time off from work?

I been in that situation, and i just schedule my meets to be on her days off. i pay for her tickets when we meet in person.

[GuppyCaptain]

I been in that situation, and i just schedule my meets to be on her days off. i pay for her tickets when we meet in person.

  Cool. If that works then that's great, but if you get serious with one and are spending two weeks at a time together you'll probably end up killing a lot of time in her city while she's working.