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Author Topic: Washington want WW3  (Read 10467 times)

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Offline The Natural

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2014, 09:46:50 AM »
Natural-

Have you any idea what the connections are of the Syrian conflict to a terrorist threat in Norway? I am aware you folks bombed and killed a few thousand Libyans for oil, but not quite sure the connection with Syria...

That's the difficult question to answer here too. Actually, the authorities here, like the US, are anti Assad, so by that measure, indirectly in line With the opposition there, in which this threat allegedly comes from.

If I were to speculate, it's like  the article say, Extreme islamists who are Norwegian Citizens and have been in Syria receiving terrorist training. It's long been warned that these might come back and do terrorist acts here, as in other European countries.
I Guess they are so Extreme that they view all that are not islamists as targets. You know, the war on "the infidels" I can't think of any other motive in this case.

I'm no stranger in criticizing my own government and authorities, but in this case I commend them for being open about why they issue this warning. It is, they say, an effort to be open and also to avoid speculation. Generally, Norwegian police are not armed, but now they are and there's heightened Security many Places.

Offline jone

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2014, 10:09:38 AM »
na2, Thank you for serving.
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2014, 02:46:29 PM »
That's the difficult question to answer here too. Actually, the authorities here, like the US, are anti Assad, so by that measure, indirectly in line With the opposition there, in which this threat allegedly comes from.

If I were to speculate, it's like  the article say, Extreme islamists who are Norwegian Citizens and have been in Syria receiving terrorist training. It's long been warned that these might come back and do terrorist acts here, as in other European countries.
I Guess they are so Extreme that they view all that are not islamists as targets. You know, the war on "the infidels" I can't think of any other motive in this case.

I'm no stranger in criticizing my own government and authorities, but in this case I commend them for being open about why they issue this warning. It is, they say, an effort to be open and also to avoid speculation. Generally, Norwegian police are not armed, but now they are and there's heightened Security many Places.

Well, I hope all goes well for you folks out there. Rather strange hearing *terrorism* and *Norway* in the same sentence really...
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Offline The Natural

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2014, 06:09:32 AM »
Up for approval by the US Congress, don't know when but I Guess soon as the warmongers are in a hurry:

THE RUSSIAN AGRESSION PREVENTION ACT!

Yes, apparently it's not a joke. Looks to me there's only one way to avoid war then and that is if Putin resigns and there's a New election where a New leader and administration is elected, that is totally obedient to the wishes of Washington.

http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/2277/text

Offline Gator

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2014, 07:37:36 AM »
Up for approval by the US Congress, don't know when but I Guess soon as the warmongers are in a hurry:

THE RUSSIAN AGRESSION PREVENTION ACT!


This was introduced in April by Senator Corker, one of the most respected members of the U. S. Senate.   Corker is a ranking member of the Foreign Relations Committee. 

I like Corker for his reasonable views, particularly with regard to the economy and business.  He is not a warmonger. 

To indicate his reasonableness, Corker fought in the Senate last September the controversial plans of his fellow Republican Senator Cruz to shutdown the US government. . 

Corker was on a CBS TV news program in April talking about sanctions and Ukraine.  Please look at this 4-minute clip of that broadcast.  He proposes stronger economic sanctions, e. g., restricting large Russian banks.  He does not propose anything resembling sending American troops into the conflict.   I trust this will enable you to stop worrying about WW III.

http://www.corker.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2014/4/corker-on-cbs-face-the-nation-sanctions-on-russian-individuals-not-enough-to-change-putin-s-behavior






Offline The Natural

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2014, 08:01:16 AM »
  He does not propose anything resembling sending American troops into the conflict.   I trust this will enable you to stop worrying about WW III.


Sec. 104. Accelerating implementation of European and NATO missile defense efforts.

Sec. 205. Diplomatic measures with respect to the Russian Federation.

Sec. 206. Support for Russian democracy and civil society
organizations.

Sec. 301. Military assistance for Ukraine.

Sec. 303. Major non-NATO ally status for Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova

Sec. 309. Expanded broadcasting in countries of the former Soviet
Union.

I'm sorry, but this does nothing to making me worry less about WW3. You may like this neo-con co-sponsor of this bill, and insist he's not "proposing anything resembling sending American troops into the conflict." He doesn't have to. It's all embedded in the text (sec. 303), Ukraine to be an ally of USA.

Russia better realize they have no "partner" in the USA and Europe seems ready to commit mass suicide just to please the crazies in Washington. What to do? Take it to the UN? Washington view the UN with utter contempt. Maybe rather annex Eastern Ukraine and get an end to the killings of innocent civilians by the Kiev neo-nazis and move the border to an ever more hostile west With it's New sattelites, more away from Mainland Russia.

Offline Gator

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2014, 08:22:21 AM »
Natural,

I tried to help you if you do indeed worry about WW III.  Perhaps you do not worry and instead  just want to jerk our chains because some here have jerked your chain in the past.  I don't have time for that.

Natural, if you are truly concerned for world peace, I suggest that you compare Putin and Corker and decide.   Corker is not a neocon.  He is a Republican and even praised Obama a week ago for raising the stakes by toughening sanctions against Russia.  Here's a clip for praising Obama (after a 15-second ad):


http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000295814

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000293511
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 08:24:16 AM by Gator »

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2014, 08:43:03 AM »
Saying that Washington wants WWIII would be akin to saying that the UK, France and the USA wanted WWII because they had the audacity to finally stand up to German aggression during the onset of events which led to WWII.

In fact the last time that another country violated the sovereignty of another European country was when Hitler had his army march into Czechoslovakia.  And initially the world tried to appease Nazi Germany, just like Europe has been trying to appease Putler and his henchmen.

Offline AC

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2014, 09:35:02 AM »
Sec. 104. Accelerating implementation of European and NATO missile defense efforts.

Sec. 205. Diplomatic measures with respect to the Russian Federation.

Sec. 206. Support for Russian democracy and civil society
organizations.

Sec. 301. Military assistance for Ukraine.

Sec. 303. Major non-NATO ally status for Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova

Sec. 309. Expanded broadcasting in countries of the former Soviet
Union.

I'm sorry, but this does nothing to making me worry less about WW3. You may like this neo-con co-sponsor of this bill, and insist he's not "proposing anything resembling sending American troops into the conflict." He doesn't have to. It's all embedded in the text (sec. 303), Ukraine to be an ally of USA.

Russia better realize they have no "partner" in the USA and Europe seems ready to commit mass suicide just to please the crazies in Washington. What to do? Take it to the UN? Washington view the UN with utter contempt. Maybe rather annex Eastern Ukraine and get an end to the killings of innocent civilians by the Kiev neo-nazis and move the border to an ever more hostile west With it's New sattelites, more away from Mainland Russia.


Soviet Russia aka the Soviet Union did their best to conquer all of Europe but had to settle for putting all of Eastern Europe under an Iron Curtain.  Apparently those countries which have left the subjugation of Russia don't want to go back, and it's no surprise that Georgia, Ukraine and Moldova prefer to be part of the EU rather than the historically bad relationship with Russia.

If Ukraine and Georgia want to embrace the West and seek protection from the West against Russian bullying and Russia doesn't like it, too bad.

Russia has the largest country in the World by landmass.  One would think Russians would concern themselves with improving their own country, instead of a manufactured crisis and the usual paranoia about external threats.  Just more proof that Russia and the Russian people have deep seated inferiority complexes.

Russia and Putin:  Fix what is broken in your own country, don't concern yourself with invading other countries under false pretenses.


PS.  If you like Russia and Putin so much, why not move yourself and your family there?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 09:37:32 AM by AC »

Offline Shadow

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2014, 09:51:02 AM »
Saying that Washington wants WWIII would be akin to saying that the UK, France and the USA wanted WWII because they had the audacity to finally stand up to German aggression during the onset of events which led to WWII.

In fact the last time that another country violated the sovereignty of another European country was when Hitler had his army march into Czechoslovakia.  And initially the world tried to appease Nazi Germany, just like Europe has been trying to appease Putler and his henchmen.
I guess you forgot about Yugoslavia.
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Offline AC

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2014, 09:53:16 AM »
I guess you forgot about Yugoslavia.

And I guess you forgot about genocide.

Offline Shadow

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2014, 09:53:51 AM »

Soviet Russia aka the Soviet Union did their best to conquer all of Europe but had to settle for putting all of Eastern Europe under an Iron Curtain.  Apparently those countries which have left the subjugation of Russia don't want to go back, and it's no surprise that Georgia, Ukraine and Moldova prefer to be part of the EU rather than the historically bad relationship with Russia.

If Ukraine and Georgia want to embrace the West and seek protection from the West against Russian bullying and Russia doesn't like it, too bad.

Russia has the largest country in the World by landmass.  One would think Russians would concern themselves with improving their own country, instead of a manufactured crisis and the usual paranoia about external threats.  Just more proof that Russia and the Russian people have deep seated inferiority complexes.

Russia and Putin:  Fix what is broken in your own country, don't concern yourself with invading other countries under false pretenses.


PS.  If you like Russia and Putin so much, why not move yourself and your family there?
Actually it seems you are still living in the past. The current Georgian government is closing ties with Russia.
As fo Moldova, the one thing that stopped them from joining Romania was the EU.

As for your last comment, the Stalin solution seems to be popular.
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2014, 09:55:11 AM »
And I guess you forgot about genocide.
Which one?
- native Americans?
- Aboriginals?
- Armenians?
- Rwanda?
- Sudan?
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Offline AC

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2014, 10:06:43 AM »
Which one?
- native Americans?
- Aboriginals?
- Armenians?
- Rwanda?
- Sudan?

Native Americans--gee, that happened in the 19th Century, I was under the impression that we live in the 21st Century.  And the well organized American Indians all own Casinos now and are multi-millionaires.  It's called an enlightened policy towards correcting wrongs of the past--too bad Putler and the Russian Federation probably won't be doing that with Chechnya, etc.

The rest are also in the past, and once again, the rest of the World has moved on.  Only apparently the likes of Russia and radical Islamist states want to re-create some mythical ideal from past Centuries.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 10:08:19 AM by AC »

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2014, 10:11:44 AM »
Actually it seems you are still living in the past. The current Georgian government is closing ties with Russia.
As fo Moldova, the one thing that stopped them from joining Romania was the EU.

As for your last comment, the Stalin solution seems to be popular.

I'm not sure what you mean by "closing ties" (?)  My understanding is that Georgia still very much wants to move closer to the EU and still wants to be a part of NATO.

Moldova just signed some sort of agreement with the EU.

The Stalin solution?  Could you elaborate please?

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2014, 10:12:41 AM »
Native Americans--gee, that happened in the 19th Century, I was under the impression that we live in the 21st Century.  And the well organized American Indians all own Casinos now and are multi-millionaires.  It's called an enlightened policy towards correcting wrongs of the past--too bad Putler and the Russian Federation probably won't be doing that with Chechnya, etc.

The rest are also in the past, and once again, the rest of the World has moved on.  Only apparently the likes of Russia and radical Islamist states want to re-create some mythical ideal from past Centuries.
So when you are called on something you state the world has moved on, yet you can not stop to make references to WW2 and the Soviet-Union? Very logical.
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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2014, 10:13:23 AM »


The Stalin solution?  Could you elaborate please?
Deport those who disagree withh your opinion.
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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2014, 10:21:52 AM »
So when you are called on something you state the world has moved on, yet you can not stop to make references to WW2 and the Soviet-Union? Very logical.

Yes, it is very logical to compare Putin's actions to those of Germany under Hitler, because it's really the best parallel.  Any other questions?

Furthermore Putin's actions have a 19th Century chauvinistic element to them, and yes most of the rest of the World has moved on.  It's Russia and Putin who want to re-create their mythical Soviet paradise, and it's Putin who keeps claiming he needs to protect ethnic Russians across the border, just like Hitler claimed he needed to protect ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia back in 1938.


Wikipedia:
"The German occupation of Czechoslovakia (1938–1945) began with the Nazi annexation of Czechoslovakia's northern and western border regions, known collectively as the Sudetenland, under terms outlined by the Munich Agreement. Nazi leader Adolf Hitler's pretext for this effort was the alleged privations suffered by the ethnic German population living in those regions. New and extensive Czechoslovak border fortifications were also located in the same area.
Following the Anschluss of Nazi Germany and Austria, in March 1938, the conquest of Czechoslovakia became Hitler's next ambition. The incorporation of the Sudetenland into Nazi Germany left the rest of Czechoslovakia weak and it became powerless to resist subsequent occupation. On 16 March 1939, the German Wehrmacht moved into the remainder of Czechoslovakia and, from Prague Castle, Hitler proclaimed Bohemia and Moravia the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. The occupation ended with the surrender of Germany following World War II.[1]


Does the emboldened part sound familiar?  Let's state it for 2014:  Following Putlers successful annexation of Crimea, his next ambition became the conquest of Eastern Ukraine.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 10:28:45 AM by AC »

Offline The Natural

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2014, 10:24:17 AM »
Natural,

I tried to help you if you do indeed worry about WW III.  Perhaps you do not worry and instead  just want to jerk our chains because some here have jerked your chain in the past.  I don't have time for that.

Thanks for trying. No, I don't have the time nor the inclination to do the jerking of Chains. As far as I'm concerned, you should also be free to spend Your time any way you choose. Don't let my opinions stop you  ;D

Natural, if you are truly concerned for world peace, I suggest that you compare Putin and Corker and decide.   Corker is not a neocon.  He is a Republican and even praised Obama a week ago for raising the stakes by toughening sanctions against Russia.  Here's a clip for praising Obama

Compare Putin to Corker, hehe. I have never heard of Corker before and he doesn't seem to be a person I wanna spend any time on. He's not a neocon and Your argument is that he want more confrontation With Russia? That's the blueprint for neocons, the meddling in others affairs in order to keep on expanding the empire. As far as I understand it, that has nothing to do With old-fashioned conservativism which was about non-intervention.

Offline Shadow

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2014, 10:35:00 AM »
Yes, it is very logical to compare Putin's actions to those of Germany under Hitler, because it's really the best parallel.  Any other questions?

Furthermore Putin's actions have a 19th Century chauvinistic element to them, and yes most of the rest of the World has moved on.  It's Russia and Putin who want to re-create their mythical Soviet paradise, and it's Putin who keeps claiming he needs to protect ethnic Russians across the border, just like Hitler claimed he needed to protect ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia back in 1938.


Wikipedia:
"The German occupation of Czechoslovakia (1938–1945) began with the Nazi annexation of Czechoslovakia's northern and western border regions, known collectively as the Sudetenland, under terms outlined by the Munich Agreement. Nazi leader Adolf Hitler's pretext for this effort was the alleged privations suffered by the ethnic German population living in those regions. New and extensive Czechoslovak border fortifications were also located in the same area.
Following the Anschluss of Nazi Germany and Austria, in March 1938, the conquest of Czechoslovakia became Hitler's next ambition. The incorporation of the Sudetenland into Nazi Germany left the rest of Czechoslovakia weak and it became powerless to resist subsequent occupation. On 16 March 1939, the German Wehrmacht moved into the remainder of Czechoslovakia and, from Prague Castle, Hitler proclaimed Bohemia and Moravia the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. The occupation ended with the surrender of Germany following World War II.[1]


Does the emboldened part sound familiar?  Let's state it for 2014:  Following Putlers successful annexation of Crimea, his next ambition became the conquest of Eastern Ukraine.
As much as you may try, Putin is not even close to Hitler. In fact if you look at the fascist ideology, there are Western countries that are currently much closer.
The EU is the one here who is effectively trying to gain control over more and more terrain, and the strong position of Germany is not by accident.

Calls to stand behind your leader as one nation or be said a traitor, ideas to let anyone who might have a different opinion move away, all these things are far closer to fascist and communist ideology as anything Putin has done.

No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2014, 10:42:20 AM »
As much as you may try, Putin is not even close to Hitler. In fact if you look at the fascist ideology, there are Western countries that are currently much closer.
The EU is the one here who is effectively trying to gain control over more and more terrain, and the strong position of Germany is not by accident.

Calls to stand behind your leader as one nation or be said a traitor, ideas to let anyone who might have a different opinion move away, all these things are far closer to fascist and communist ideology as anything Putin has done.

Parallels between Hitler and Putin:

   a)  Complete control of the press.  I wonder why two RT journalists recently quit?  I wonder why so many Russian journalists who don't tell the official narrative
        disappear, end up dead, or end up in a coma after being severely beaten?

   b)  A secret police state to instill fear and willingness to obey state authorities.  Just like Hitler had his Gestapo, Putin has his FSB and likely other agencies as well
        to spy on citizens and instill obedience.

   c)  Recent economic successes:  Just like Hitler helped pull Germany out of their great recession due to WWI, Putin has helped pull Russia out of the economic
        blues and increased Russian standards of living.

   d)  Paranoia about external threats and manufactured crisis'.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 10:51:56 AM by AC »

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2014, 10:51:20 AM »
Parallels between Hitler and Putin:

   a)  Complete control of the press.  I wonder why two RT journalists recently quit.  I wonder why so many Russian journalists who don't tell the official narrative
        disappear, end up dead, or end up in a coma after being severely beaten?
How much knowledge do you have of Russian press, other than parroting stories?
I wonder how its possible that with every crisis a journalist of RT quits. Almost as if they are instructed to do so.


   b)  A secret police state to instill fear and willingness to obey state authorities.  Just like Hitler had his Gestapo, Putin has his FSB and likely other agencies as well
        to spy on citizens and instill obedience.
Russia must have changed a lot since the last time I was there. Will see if you are right within a month.

   c)  Recent economic successes:  Just like Hitler helped pull Germany out of their great recession due to WWI, Putin has helped pull Russia out of the economic
        blues and increased Russian standard of living.
So every politician that successfully fights an economic crisis is like Hitler?

   d) Paranoia about external threats and manufactured crisis.  Obvious.
That sounds more like other countries....
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2014, 10:56:57 AM »
How much knowledge do you have of Russian press, other than parroting stories?
I wonder how its possible that with every crisis a journalist of RT quits. Almost as if they are instructed to do so.
Russia must have changed a lot since the last time I was there. Will see if you are right within a month.So every politician that successfully fights an economic crisis is like Hitler?That sounds more like other countries....

One more parallel:

   e)  Hitler came to power with only 34% of the electorate voting for him.  It's hard to say for certain, but indications are that there was enormous fraud in the last
        election for Putin.  Most likely he did not receive a majority, especially considering that opposition party leaders are harassed and even thrown in jail.

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2014, 11:08:40 AM »
One more parallel:

   e)  Hitler came to power with only 34% of the electorate voting for him.  It's hard to say for certain, but indications are that there was enormous fraud in the last
        election for Putin.  Most likely he did not receive a majority, especially considering that opposition party leaders are harassed and even thrown in jail.
Those opposition leaders hardly manage to obtain 2%.
However it is customary to declare the voting of an unfriendly regime as fraudulent, even a posteriori.
On the other hand a friendly regime can commit as much fraud as they wish, and still be declared honest.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

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Re: Washington want WW3
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2014, 11:58:57 AM »
Deport those who disagree withh your opinion.
That does seem like a viable alternative around here.  ;)
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

 

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