Russian Women Discussion

RWD News From the Front => Russian Front Discussion => Topic started by: AkMike on June 08, 2014, 08:53:43 PM

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 08, 2014, 08:53:43 PM
Bulgaria has suspended plans for the South Stream Gas line to feed the Euro pipelines because of the invasion of Crimea.

08.06.2014 | 18:35
Bulgaria's Prime Minister Plamen Orešarski ordered to suspend work on the project on construction of a gas pipeline South stream, for consultations with the European Commission.

Bulgaria's Prime Minister ordered the suspension of construction of the South Stream
Pipeline.

The South Stream pipeline is being built to supply Russian gas to southern and Central Europe, bypassing Ukraine. The European Commission believes that bilateral treaties with European countries transiting-Austria, Bulgaria, Hungary and Slovenia-which violate EU law, reported in the Sunday edition of the novinite.bg.

In early June, the EC proposed to suspend the construction of the South stream gas pipeline as long as it does not conform to the standards of the third čnergopaketa.
Read alsoThe European Commission called on Bulgaria to stop the construction of South stream

"There is a request from the European Commission, and we stop further work on the project associated with this request, and depending on consultations with Brussels, a decision will be taken," the Edition quotes the words of the Prime Minister.

Such a statement he made after meeting with a delegation of American senators, among them was Republican John McCain. U.s. Senators visited Bulgaria this weekend as part of a tour of Eastern Europe.

Previously the official representative of the EC reported that the European Commission sent Bulgaria notification of non-compliance with EU standards in the competition to choose a builder and operator of the Bulgarian section of the pipeline.
Read alsoThe European Commission insists on revising the agreement on the "South stream"

UNIAN reports, previously a member of the European Commission for energy Günther Oettinger stated that the draft of the South stream gas pipeline did not move, while Russia will not change its course on the political crisis in Ukraine.

"We will restore the talks when the Russian partner will abide by international law and is ready for constructive cooperation on the basis of our energy legislation," said Ettinger.

According to him, "with almost a civil war in the East of Ukraine and that Moscow does not recognize the Government in Kiev, we will surely not to come in our negotiations."

In April, the media reported that Bulgaria had refused the Russian gas pipeline bypassing Ukraine.

http://economics.unian.net/energetics/926657-bolgariya-priostanovila-rabotyi-po-stroitelstvu-yujnogo-potoka-smi.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 08, 2014, 08:54:26 PM
Building a deep sea pipeline is a very expensive operation. It's much cheaper to build one overland or at least in shallow coastal waters with monitor and pumping stations on nearby dry land.

 Look at the picture in the above post and see what land has been recently "acquired" by Russia. It is obvious that the invasion of Crimea didn't just happen. Stealing the off shore gas fields along with Crimea is a bonus to the thieving Russian government and their minions.

 Another option for a gas line is totally overland from South East Ukraine along the coastal area thru Odessa. But the locals screwed up that plan by kicking the Russian terrorists out.
Putler wasn't happy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 10, 2014, 10:43:18 AM
Awww shucks,, Too bad Boris! 


Russia Sees "Underhanded Sanctions" in Bulgaria's Suspension of South Stream

Bulgaria's decision to suspend construction of the Russia-led South Stream pipeline project on its territory, undermining Russia's efforts to diversify its gas transportation infrastructure to Europe away from Ukraine, is an underhanded economic sanction thrust on Russia by the West, a top Russian diplomat and Russian industry analysts said Monday.

Vladimir Chizhov, Russia's envoy to the European Union, slammed the move against the $45 billion pipeline project, which followed a visit by three U.S. senators to Bulgaria late last week, as "economic sanctions by stealth," and highlighted efforts by top European officials to link the continuation of work on the project with Russia's position on Ukraine.

"South Stream is directly related to Ukraine, because once it is completed, Ukraine will loose its status as monopoly transit country [for the Russian gas going to European consumers]," Chizhov said, Itar-Tass reported.

South Stream, which is designed to deliver 63 billion cubic meters of gas per year and from Russia's Krasnodar region across the bottom of the Black Sea to Bulgaria, Serbia and Hungary before entering Austria, has the potential to shift the balance of energy power in Eastern Europe away from Ukraine by depriving the country of its leverage as the main transit country for Russia's gas.

Last week, energy-hungry EU member state Bulgaria seemed determined to withstand pressure from Brussels and Washington, with the country's Energy Minister Dragomir Stoynev defending it as a priority infrastructure project.

But following a visit by U.S. senators John McCain, Christopher Murphy and Ron Johnson on Sunday, Bulgarian Prime Minister Plamen Oresharski said the country would halt construction work on the pipeline, in which Russia's state gas exporter Gazprom holds a 50-percent stake.

McCain, who is known for his staunch criticism of President Vladimir Putin, was quoted by The Associated Press as saying after the meeting that "obviously we want as little Russian involvement as possible."

Bulgarian authorities soon tried to row back on Sunday's announcement, with the Energy Minister Dragomir Stoynev saying on Monday that the project cannot be cancelled and that it will be completed sooner or later. Serbia ? the next leg of the pipeline ? said it will still suspend the project until the construction of Bulgaria's section is sorted out.

The project's disruption is a direct consequence of Western efforts to preserve Ukraine's leverage over Moscow as its main transportation hub for gas exports, said Sergei Pikin, director of Energy Development Fund, a Moscow-based energy consultancy and engineering firm.

"If South Stream is completed, it will make Ukraine much weaker with regard to Russia, and of course neither the U.S. nor the EU want this to happen," Pikin said in a telephone interview on Monday.

Justifying its pressure on Bulgaria, The EU claimed that the country, one of its poorest members, failed to comply with EU internal market rules on the awarding of public contracts. At the end of May, Bulgaria selected Stroytransgaz, a Russian company hit by U.S. sanctions, to construct the pipeline on its territory. Strontransgaz is controlled by Gennady Timchenko, a personal friend and ally of Putin who is subject to U.S. sanctions. Timchenko is not subject to EU sanctions.

The existing pipeline network between Russia and EU is able to carry 250 billion cubic meters of gas, while Russia's annual exports amounted only to 196 billion cubic meters in 2013 according to Mikhail Krutikhin, a partner at consultants RusEnergy. About 50 percent of Russian gas destined for Europe travels via Ukraine.

Last week, Ukraine's Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said the country's state-controlled gas company, Naftogaz, would be split into three separate businesses ? one to manage Ukraine's pipeline infrastructure, one to oversee gas transport, and another to take charge of storage. Once split, Ukraine's gas transportation system would be modernized with the help of European and U.S. investors, Yatsenyuk said.

And the main value of Ukraine's gas transportation system is that it can transport Russian gas, according to Pikin. If South Stream is completed, this value ? and Yatsenyuk's plans ? will be greatly diminished.


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/501793.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on June 10, 2014, 12:55:40 PM
Serbia in limbo:
http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_06_09/Serbia-forced-to-halt-South-Stream-gas-project-over-EUs-stance-on-Unkraine-8833/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 11, 2014, 12:14:57 PM

Bulgaria's decision to suspend construction of the Russia-led South Stream pipeline project on its territory, undermining Russia's efforts to diversify its gas transportation infrastructure to Europe away from Ukraine, is an underhanded economic sanction thrust on Russia by the West, a top Russian diplomat and Russian industry analysts said Monday.

Vladimir Chizhov, Russia's envoy to the European Union, slammed the move against the $45 billion pipeline project, which followed a visit by three U.S. senators to Bulgaria late last week, as "economic sanctions by stealth," and highlighted efforts by top European officials to link the continuation of work on the project with Russia's position on Ukraine.






(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/cringe_zps3a342d45.gif)




Wah, Wah, Wah




LMFAO


Russia is still, and will stay a second world economy.


Lesson for Putin, when you invade a country, you invade a country with everything you got.


Take Iraq, for example.


I bet Bulgaria would never do this to the Gringos.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on September 29, 2014, 05:19:48 PM
If you think Russia doesn't deserve to be invaded, try being a kid and going to play at these playgrounds:

http://medium.com/vse-ploho/silent-hill-148b213311a0
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on September 29, 2014, 06:17:04 PM
A few potholes to dodge on your cruise thru new russia.
http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/events/3425274-obval-dorohy-pod-symferopolem-staly-yzvestny-detaly-avaryy#1

(http://kor.ill.in.ua/m/610x0/1511330.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 02, 2014, 06:36:40 PM
Jihad within Russia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl-lH9aI3-s
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 07, 2014, 10:26:56 PM
New low for the Russian Ruble.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 07, 2014, 11:16:10 PM
The pot is slowly coming to the boil.The sanctions need to be really ramped up now-- become extremely restrictive and focus on everything and anyone Russian anywhere.It also ought to apply to previous Russian citizens that have already fled-- those whose wealth was or is being gained in Russia.The pressure being applied is already causing a rethink in Russia from somewhat needs to be a tidal wave.
As we have all seen on the forum -- a few closed minds that are incapable of thinking Thur a series of actions and the net result( which is obvious enough to 97% of people) can cause a lot of noise-- in Russia that large majority need to make themselves heard. That will encourage those that are in the position to have the means to change Russia's direction can be encouraged  to get it done.
Every bit of time that Ukraine can buy now is crucial-not only militarily but politically  outside of Ukraine.
Putin needs a major military victory in Ukraine to be able to maintain the credibility of his campaign-look for a much escalated attack very soon.
For those pro-Rus posters who have shown zero empathy for Ukrainians plight and so little understanding of what a huge risk for Russia that Putin has taken  -- keep watching--the chickens will come home to roost-- for Ukraine!
Me-- not only would I reclaim every millimetre of Ukrainian soil--I would lay claim to the historic areas of the Kievan-Rus empire !!
Also on my agenda would be monetary compensation to Ukraine-to every business  that has lost money as a result of Putins stupidity.
For those who have posted on Russian cash reserves-- how do you think they will look after paying compensation to Ukraine?


Putin Clans Said Gridlocked Over Arrest as Sanctions Bite - Bloomberg
Russia’s wheels of power are grinding to a halt.


That's the assessment of five officials close to President Vladimir Putin, who say that a struggle at the heart of his inner circle is slowing decision making as sanctions squeeze the economy. With Putin focused on foreign policy, rival factions are battling for influence, said the people, who declined to be identified discussing internal issues, Censor.NET reports, citing Bloomberg.

Read also: German Envoy Warns Russia about New Possible Sanctions
One group, centered on Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, is concerned about Russia's increasing alienation from the global financial system, said the officials. The other, which includes heads of state companies such as Igor Sechin of OAO Rosneft (ROSN) and veterans of the security services, favors greater state control over the economy, they said.
Russia's ruling elite is convulsing as the economy careens toward recession, the ruble hovers near a record low and the conflict in Ukraine pushes the country deeper into a standoff with the U.S and its allies. With oil, Russia's largest export, at a 27-month low and banks increasingly turning to the state for funding, there's less money to go around.
"The long-running conflict between rival pro-Putin camps has elevated to war," said Stanislav Belkovsky, a Kremlin adviser during Putin's first term who heads Moscow's Institute for National Strategy. "The elite are fighting for a shrinking pool of assets."
Read also: Putin Leads State Campaign to Close the Russian Mind - The Washington Post
Heightening the feud between the rival groups is the arrest of billionaire Vladimir Evtushenkov and the legal campaign by prosecutors to nationalize his oil company, OAO Bashneft (BANE), according to the officials.
Evtushenkov, confined to his Moscow mansion since Sept. 16 on allegations of money laundering, is closely aligned with Medvedev and his allies, according to the people. They are at odds with the "siloviki," a group of powerful policymakers that includes men like Putin's chief of staff, Sergei Ivanov, who share a security service background and have worked with the president for decades.
Read also: Russian Rouble Hits New All-Time Low at Over 40 Roubles for Dollar
Evtushenkov's legal troubles show how damaging the conflict within the power structure can be for the losing side, said Olga Kryshtanovskaya, a sociologist studying the country's elite at the Russian Academy of Sciences. His fortune has tumbled more than 70 percent since the start of the year to $2.9 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.
"State corporations are on the offensive against private business," Kryshtanovskaya said. "There is a deficit of resources. They need resources and Putin needs loyalty and controllability."
Officials, already divided over Ukraine, are now keeping their heads down, waiting to see how the case against Evtushenkov plays out and who might be next, the people said.
Read also: Khodorkovsky: "It Is Not Just Putin that Needs to Be Replaced. The Entire System Needs to Be Changed." Source: http://en.censor.net.ua/n305800
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 08, 2014, 03:44:09 AM
In ancient times, you can leave the conquered territory as it was, move your capital to the conquered territory or destroy it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 08, 2014, 03:13:41 PM
Is Putin in charge anymore?

Medvedev Admits That Sanctions Do Impact Russian Economy: "The Situation Is Very Complicated"

http://en.censor.net.ua/news/304052/medvedev_admits_that_sanctions_do_impact_russian_economy_the_situation_is_very_complicated

When a Russian says it's complicated, it is a 300% cop out
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Isthmus on October 08, 2014, 05:44:16 PM
Some serious storm clouds brewing on the economics front for Russia according to this article.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/world/a/25205564/battered-russian-economy-faces-more-pain-over-ukraine-imf/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 08, 2014, 05:51:41 PM
Putin can't accept that the Soviet Union is gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvuQ5PgagI

We have had it up to here with the Soviet Union.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 08, 2014, 06:52:55 PM
New low for the Russian Ruble.

2 Billiion USD$  spent yesterday by Russia attempting to stem the collapse and prop up the "rubble" :)


How are all those ridiculous justify anything russian no thinkers doing now> ? Russia has less GDP than Italy and has largely one dimensional economy -- not exactly a prescription for the longevity of prosperity.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 08, 2014, 07:50:26 PM
when Bill Browder comes back to Russia, it will be safe to invest in Russia again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 10, 2014, 12:06:39 AM
Just for fun.. :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 10, 2014, 12:07:57 AM
The head of Russia's largest bank, Sberbank, Herman Gref, himself a former economy minister, warned that Russia could end up collapsing like the Soviet Union.
By Max Delany | AFP

Some senior Russian officials have sounded increasingly dire warnings over the country's perilous economic situation but President Vladimir Putin has shown little sign of relenting over Ukraine in a bid to ease the economic woe.
Economy Minister Alexei Ulyukayev last week warned that the combination of high inflation and feeble growth created an "explosive situation."

Russia's already battered economy will struggle to recover from the fallout of the crisis in Ukraine as uncertainty looks set to drag down growth around the former Soviet Union, the IMF warned on Oct. 7.






http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/battered-russian-economy-faces-more-144642869.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 10, 2014, 12:08:43 AM
More thoughts along these lines...

Putin Seeks Solitude Amid Russia's Perfect Storm
Geopolitical Diary
Tuesday, October 7, 2014 - 19:15

Russian President Vladimir Putin celebrated his 62nd birthday Tuesday in a peculiar fashion: by himself in the Siberian forests. For the past few days, Putin's spokesman, Dmitri Peskov, has brushed off journalists' questions about why the president decided not to celebrate his birthday in Moscow or do other work as he has in previous years. This is just another odd piece to an increasingly complex puzzle surrounding the stability and future of the Russian president and his government.
Current Instabilities

Russia is in the eye of the perfect storm. Though the crisis with Ukraine has been reduced to a simmer, Russia has seen a strategic reversal in its critical borderland. In addition, the crisis moved the West to enact sanctions on Russia and loosen many financial and economic ties to the country. Now the Kremlin is in the midst of an economic crisis that is every bit as serious as the Ukraine situation. In the past two days, Russia's central bank used $1.6 billion of its currency reserves to shore up the Russian ruble. Since the start of 2014, the central bank has injected $51 billion in currency reserves to keep the currency stable. The Russian economy is projecting flat growth for 2014, while foreign investment into Russia has fallen by 50 percent. The Kremlin may have $630 billion in its reserves, but these funds are being used quickly in an attempt to fill the cracks.

Concerns over Russia's financial stability have erupted into public battles between the various Kremlin factions. On Tuesday, Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov, a key figure in the liberal economic clans, publicly called on Putin to cut Russia's ambitious defense spending program. Russia is set to start a 10-year, $770 billion defense rearmament program in 2015. Siluanov reportedly rejected the plan during recent budget drafts in September, prompting Putin to move decision-making on defense spending under his office and away from the Cabinet.

What is a Geopolitical Diary? George Friedman Explains.

While Siluanov's argument against defense spending is financial, Putin also has to consider the security and political ramifications of such a decision. Russia's continued struggles in its borderlands will require a robust military. Moreover, Putin is using the defense budget to appease Russia's various security and defense circles.
The Rise and Fall of Russian Leaders

Though Putin has ruled Russia for 15 years in a centralized and autocratic fashion, like any other leader he must balance various factions within the country. His ability to manipulate the various political clans is what brought him to power. The lack of that ability is what caused the downfall of Boris Yeltsin in the 1990s, and many leaders before him. Yeltsin was unable to manage the competition between his own loyalists, the more liberal circles of economists and the security and defense circles. Yeltsin wildly shifted policies in order to retain a grip on power, such as his economic shock policies and the restructuring of the Federal Security Services. Such erratic moves contributed to the Russian economic crash, the breakdown of the security services and the erosion of Russia's military as it fought a savage war in the North Caucasus.

Yeltsin's stumbling enabled Putin's rise to power. Putin understood that a Russian leader could rule only as long as he could balance the competing groups. Putin is a former KGB agent, tying him into the security circles, while his knowledge of Russia's need for Western technologies gives him an understanding of the more liberal economists. In his first years in power, Putin divided Russia's assets and tools of power between the clans, keeping them in constant competition and positioning himself as the ultimate arbitrator.

The problem now is that the clan system has begun to crumble. The security circles are being blamed for failures in Ukraine, while the liberal economic circles are being blamed for the sour economy. Many personalities and groups are putting their own positions (and financial revenues) before the betterment of the state. Putin continues to try to maintain balance, as seen in the recent weeks of budget debates between the liberals and security circles. But Putin's 15 years of success at balancing the clans came during times of rebuilding and resurging for Russia. Now, Putin is attempting to find balance from a position of weakness.

Putin's grasp on power is not easy to gauge from outside the Kremlin. The decision for new leadership is made within the Kremlin walls, not among the people. Previous Russian leaders, from Nikita Khrushchev to Leonid Brezhnev to Yeltsin, were removed or pushed aside by the ones closest to them. Thus, it seems fitting that the current Russian leader chose to celebrate his birthday far from the Kremlin and its clans.

http://www.stratfor.com/geopolitical-diary/putin-seeks-solitude-amid-russias-perfect-storm#axzz3FinYOY85
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 03:35:17 AM
Putin can't accept that the Soviet Union is gone.
   
She is lying and she knows it.
Russia is not interested in Ukrainian conflict.
All these sanctions were very well predictable.
Destabilization of Ukraine benefits somebody else. We know who this "else" is.
This video is a pure staged 300% BS.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 03:43:48 AM
Quote
Thus, it seems fitting that the current Russian leader chose to celebrate his birthday far from the Kremlin and its clans.

I don't that this is the reason. Putin is not the person to celebrate his birthday officially. He has always been this way.
(http://storage1.censor.net.ua/images/9/e/0/f/9e0f8459e4435796154a4a9db2359afb/640x427.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 03:47:03 AM
(http://pravda-team.ru/yoki/image/photo/7/1/8/24718.jpeg)(http://www.nexplorer.ru/load/Image/0713/putin_bio_2_600.jpg)(http://daypic.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/1189-700x350.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 10, 2014, 03:51:56 AM
We made such pictures in Hollywood.  Its called make believe Doll.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 03:54:12 AM
We made such pictures in Hollywood.  Its called make believe Doll.
Who "we"?
The pics are taken from official mass media.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 10, 2014, 01:01:49 PM
Although not along the lines of economic sanctions, geopolitical strategies or military tactics I consider this opinion piece describing the pre occupation by many Russian people idolizing Mr. Putin as more bad news for Russia as well.

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2014/10/07/what-do-you-get-for-the-czar-who-has-everything/

Aptly described as being "hysterical sycophancy", whatever you want to call it, it's not healthy for a society/culture to enable or cater to such bizarre displays of adoration for one's political leader...

 [from the article] Some of the dedications/proposals made to celebrate Putin's Birthday...

Oct 7th (Putin's Birthday) be celebrated as "Polite People's Day." 'Polite people' is the terminology Russian media uses to describe unmarked Russian soldiers sent in to disrupt areas before annexation/invasion. More commonly referred to as 'little green men' in western media.

http://lenta.ru/news/2014/09/12/politepeople/

Giant books outlining his achievements.

http://www.pravda.ru/news/interesting_news/07-10-2014/1229961-putin-0/

An Art Exhibit depicting Putin as the mythical Hercules defeating/overcoming various perceived foreign foes or challenges.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29513589

My thoughts on it are dictator's are predisposed to believing their own propaganda. If history has shown us anything - populations creating/enabling an ultra nationalistic cultist type leader to lead their country doesn't usually end well for said country.

Brass





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 10, 2014, 03:38:49 PM
400% agree
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 03:54:27 PM
Lord, just for you- more "Hollywood" pics
Enjoy.
(http://en.ria.ru/images/17642/00/176420022.jpg)
(http://www.rrr.org.au/assets/vladimir-putin-and-sports02_cropped_230x250.jpg)
(http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/static/img/putin/interests/3.png)
(http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/static/img/putin/interests/14.png)
All made up by Doll.
 :P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 10, 2014, 04:08:50 PM
Quote
I would lay claim to the historic areas of the Kievan-Rus empire !!

 :applaud: :flowers:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 10, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Lord, just for you- more "Hollywood" pics
Enjoy.
(http://en.ria.ru/images/17642/00/176420022.jpg)
(http://www.rrr.org.au/assets/vladimir-putin-and-sports02_cropped_230x250.jpg)
(http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/static/img/putin/interests/3.png)
(http://eng.putin.kremlin.ru/static/img/putin/interests/14.png)
All made up by Doll.
 :P

33% homo
100% Putin la la la
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 11, 2014, 03:06:57 AM
The thing is that the image a leader sets will also be the image people hold for the men in their country.
MrsShadow is nagging me to do more sports. Had I married an American woman she would have nagged me to talk more.  ;D
As for the Dutch, it shows a man can do well without a wife....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 05:58:27 AM
Quote
33% homo
100% Putin
    I agree with this. You, Americans, will NEVER understand Russian mentality. So this 33% is accurate. As well as 100%.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 06:11:43 AM
Don't forget that Brokeback Mountain photo of Putin riding a horse shirtless!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 06:15:31 AM
Don't forget that Brokeback Mountain photo of Putin riding a horse shirtless!
I didn't post it so that Lord sleeps well :D
(http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/World/2009/080509_putin12_slideshow_604x500.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 11, 2014, 06:57:22 AM
33% homo
100% Putin la la la

Someone edited my post.  I did not write Putin but Putin.  Probably the same SOB who took offense to something I wrote but when I asked what I wrote that was so offensive, he/she clammed up like a frog's ass.  Strange people . . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 07:41:05 AM
Someone edited my post.  I did not write Putin but Putin.  Probably the same SOB who took offense to something I wrote but when I asked what I wrote that was so offensive, he/she clammed up like a frog's ass.  Strange people . . . .
This OSB is moderator. :D
And yes- I reported many time on offensive language. Not only I.
Offensive language is against this board rules.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 07:44:39 AM
I'll explain- you guys dont' speak Russian so you can't understand the meaning or connotation of Russian words.
What Shirtlitz posts is absolutely unacceptable and you, like monkeys, just repeated after him.
It is not freeom of speech- it is misbehavior against board rules.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 11, 2014, 08:08:46 AM


Just like Putin's high heel shoes
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 08:37:31 AM
For us non-Russian speakers, Doll please tell us which phrase that Shirtlitz used you are referring to and what is the translation of it that made it so offensive that it needs to be banned. It's not like children is going to read this board and learn some new swear words as a result!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 11, 2014, 10:51:03 AM
huilo.  Vulgar, but in Ukraine, not the terrible, horrible word Doll suggests it is.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 11, 2014, 10:57:30 AM
I'll explain- you guys dont' speak Russian so you can't understand the meaning or connotation of Russian words.
What Shirtlitz posts is absolutely unacceptable and you, like monkeys, just repeated after him.
It is not freeom of speech- it is misbehavior against board rules.

It might be "misbehavior" but since there are approximately 47 Million people living in Ukraine and since most of them don't like the "misbehavior" of their evil neighbor to the East;  too bad.  Take it up with them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 11:15:40 AM
Now I understand...

When I google up the word "huilo" this is the very first result of the search: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin_khuilo!

So it appears Shirtlitz isn't the only person in the world using that phrase!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 11, 2014, 02:09:42 PM
I'll explain- you guys dont' speak Russian so you can't understand the meaning or connotation of Russian words.
What Shirtlitz posts is absolutely unacceptable and you, like monkeys, just repeated after him.
It is not freeom of speech- it is misbehavior against board rules.

I now understand.  It's ok for you to call the rest of us monkeys, but not OK for us to call Putin a khuilo!

You remind me of the lone classmate that always goes to the teacher to report on someone else.  A snitch!
Did you also report on your neighbors when you were in Russia?



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 11, 2014, 02:45:03 PM
Is Doll a moderator?  Because that would explain who and why posts are being edited.  Did she also moderate Stirlitz?  Typical Commie modus operandi, lose a debate - censor!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 11, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
huilo.  Vulgar, but in Ukraine, not the terrible, horrible word Doll suggests it is.

The use is widespread all over Ukraine. Even the most polite  will use it in reference to the lunatic megalomaniac Putin.  The description is available on all sorts of paraphernalia eg t-shirts,caps,car stickers,badges,flags etc.It is also used extensively in popular song  by very popular performer. I saw him live several times at large open air performances where the WHOLE crowd sang along with every word!! ;D

What strikes me here is the amount of forum space wasted by pro-Putin promoters who still cant get that it is not Russia as such that criticism is aimed at but the leadership policies and actions in relation to Ukraine. How about some time being spent by those people showing some empathy for the deaths of Ukrainians as a result of Russian actions-- and no time being spent being so ridiculous as to spend time feeling insulted over a few words aimed at a complete and utter disgusting dickhead in Putin?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 11, 2014, 05:06:06 PM
The use is widespread all over Ukraine. Even the most polite  will use it in reference to the lunatic megalomaniac Putin.  The description is available on all sorts of paraphernalia eg t-shirts,caps,car stickers,badges,flags etc.It is also used extensively in popular song  by very popular performer. I saw him live several times at large open air performances where the WHOLE crowd sang along with every word!! ;D

What strikes me here is the amount of forum space wasted by pro-Putin promoters who still cant get that it is not Russia as such that criticism is aimed at but the leadership policies and actions in relation to Ukraine.

I only count 4 (Doll, fathertime, GQblues and Shadow) and their contribution to this forum is very important.  Although their position can be annoying (and obviously wrong :P) it's important that both sides of the story are allowed to be told -- it's important that there is freedom of speech.  Without it we would be just like Russian State TV -- only promoting one version of events.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 11, 2014, 06:10:25 PM
For us non-Russian speakers, Doll please tell us which phrase that Shirtlitz used you are referring to and what is the translation of it that made it so offensive that it needs to be banned. It's not like children is going to read this board and learn some new swear words as a result!
There is some CONNOTAION that can only be understood by Russian language speakers.
I only can say it is unacceptable.
It is not about Putin or who ever- it is about the one who uses this language.
You need to be Russian to understand what I am talking about.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 11, 2014, 06:19:59 PM
I only count 4 (Doll, fathertime, GQblues and Shadow) and their contribution to this forum is very important.  Although their position can be annoying (and obviously wrong :P) it's important that both sides of the story are allowed to be told -- it's important that there is freedom of speech.  Without it we would be just like Russian State TV -- only promoting one version of events.

AC -there are more. It is more about the total lack of acceptance of the bleeding blind obvious-- and trying to tell us all that black is white.Being obtuse for the sake of it is what irks me.
Amongst their ranks are heavily disaffected failures,guy who believe 911 never happened, a guy who thinks the moon landing was staged,guys who persist in posting when clearly drunk or drug affected,plus more ideas generally attributed to the looney fringe-- and on the other hand-- we have people here directly affected by the Russian invasions,people with family & friends directly involved .Seeing the few insult and deride  those people is simply disgusting--it shows zero human empathy and mirrors Huilo's behaviour.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 11, 2014, 06:29:15 PM
I only count 4 (Doll, fathertime, GQblues and Shadow) and their contribution to this forum is very important.  Although their position can be annoying (and obviously wrong :P) it's important that both sides of the story are allowed to be told -- it's important that there is freedom of speech.  Without it we would be just like Russian State TV -- only promoting one version of events.

Don't forget Belvis, Manny, Steveboy and LivefromUkraine.  Only GQB engages in these unfunny character assassination narratives explicitly verboten in the TOS.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on October 11, 2014, 06:29:58 PM
I only can say it is unacceptable.



You are against war but you defend a man who started one. Don't feel sorry that people are calling Putin names. The sitting American president is always the most picked on person on the planet.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 11, 2014, 08:37:25 PM
There is some CONNOTAION that can only be understood by Russian language speakers.
I only can say it is unacceptable.
It is not about Putin or who ever- it is about the one who uses this language.
You need to be Russian to understand what I am talking about.

In that case I will take the word of Stirlitz and MILLIONS of other Ukrainians who speak Russian and who emphatically say that Putin is a khuilo.  Now get over it.   :deadhorse:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/06/16/khuilo-the-offensive-term-that-has-attached-itself-to-putin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 11, 2014, 08:41:56 PM
In that case I will take the word of Stirlitz and MILLIONS of other Ukrainians who speak Russian and who emphatically say that Putin is a khuilo.  Now get over it.   :deadhorse:


+111111     :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 09:25:27 PM
Maybe during the upcoming G20 meeting in Brisbane, there will be TV footage of protestors holding "Putin Khuilo!" banners.

Now that's one way to introduce a new phrase into the Aussie vocabulary!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 11, 2014, 09:41:29 PM
Congrats [removed] The ruble continues to plunge downward.

"The ruble broke through the Central Bank's new boundaries straight after trading began, later hitting a low of 45.26 against the basket."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/508753.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/508753.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 11, 2014, 10:23:40 PM
Russia to turn to crocodile meat to counter their own self-imposed food embargo...
http://www.inquisitr.com/1534137/russia-embargo-pork-beef-food-prices-crocodiles/

Maybe macho man Putin will put out a video of himself catching, skinning and then BBQ'ing one of those crocs for lunch!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 11, 2014, 10:39:36 PM
If they're anything like `gator meat it'll be tasty but very $pendy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 11, 2014, 11:40:12 PM
Congrats [removed] The ruble continues to plunge downward.

"The ruble broke through the Central Bank's new boundaries straight after trading began, later hitting a low of 45.26 against the basket."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/508753.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/508753.html)


 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 12, 2014, 12:03:05 AM
Maybe during the upcoming G20 meeting in Brisbane, there will be TV footage of protestors holding "Putin Khuilo!" banners.

Now that's one way to introduce a new phrase into the Aussie vocabulary!


Let's hope some Ukrainians living in Australia do that and more!   :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 12:34:45 AM
Is Formula 1 still going to happen in Sochi?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 12, 2014, 12:41:37 AM
Russia to turn to crocodile meat to counter their own self-imposed food embargo...
http://www.inquisitr.com/1534137/russia-embargo-pork-beef-food-prices-crocodiles/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/1534137/russia-embargo-pork-beef-food-prices-crocodiles/)

Maybe macho man Putin will put out a video of himself catching, skinning and then BBQ'ing one of those crocs for lunch!

Didn't an Australian croc eat a Russian tourist recently? Maybe starve a big salty for a while to let [removed] show us how brave he is !! :devilish:

ADDED LATER :   Looks like he is coming ( ABC news 2 minutes ago)  -- maybe we can get GQ to tell him big salties  are tame !!  OR FT to tell him it will be a win/win situation !!  (( ie  win for the hungry croc and and a win for the world!!) ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 12, 2014, 12:42:20 AM
Is Formula 1 still going to happen in Sochi?


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2226956-formula-1s-latest-rumours-and-talk-paddock-news-from-2014-russian-grand-prix
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Mod3 on October 12, 2014, 03:07:04 AM
I now understand.  It's ok for you to call the rest of us monkeys, but not OK for us to call Putin a khuilo!

You remind me of the lone classmate that always goes to the teacher to report on someone else.  A snitch!
Did you also report on your neighbors when you were in Russia?
there is a difference. You can say Putin is a hkhuilo. You are not allowed to use the word khuilo alone to refer to him.
That will be edited and on continuation punished.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 12, 2014, 06:50:10 AM
(Reuters) - ''Vulgar chants about Vladimir Putin before he arrived for a regional summit in Belarus (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-29567246) did not augur well for the Russian president's hopes of bringing the leaders of former Soviet republics closer together''
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/10/us-ukraine-crisis-cis-idUSKCN0HZ1JD20141010 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/10/us-ukraine-crisis-cis-idUSKCN0HZ1JD20141010)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 10:15:37 AM
Congrats [removed] The ruble continues to plunge downward.

"
What- Americans are showing their real face?
You are happy about other people hardships.
Nice!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 12, 2014, 10:39:28 AM
What- Americans are showing their real face?
You are happy about other people self inflicted hardships.
Nice!

Fixed it for you...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 10:54:46 AM
Look- you may be mad at politics, but you are happy about people's hardships.
Again- it is now American real face and I suspest that it's always been this.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 10:57:58 AM
Look- you may be mad at politics, but you are happy about people's hardships.
Again- it is now American real face and I suspest that it's always been this.
Sleepycat is not American, he is from a much less developed country.  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 11:12:12 AM
Didn't an Australian croc eat a Russian tourist recently? Maybe starve a big salty for a while to let [removed] show us how brave he is !! :devilish:

ADDED LATER :   Looks like he is coming ( ABC news 2 minutes ago)  -- maybe we can get GQ to tell him big salties  are tame !!  OR FT to tell him it will be a win/win situation !!  (( ie  win for the hungry croc and and a win for the world!!) ;D

Watch your words comrade.  This is not the West where you can express yourself freely. [Removed] is listening.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 12, 2014, 11:14:46 AM
Look- you may be mad at politics, but you are happy about people's hardships.
Again- it is now American real face and I suspest that it's always been this.

Be careful Doll you're deviating from the official party line that the Russian people are experiencing "hardships" at all. ;)

As to your real face comment-Keep in mind it's not just the U.S. that's effecting the Russian economy, it's global economics and every country that's imposed sanctions or is otherwise involved in curtailing Russian aggression.

I do not subscribe to the line that it's Putin we (the west) are fighting. I believe the Russian people must also take responsibility for their country's/ government's actions. So, if the Russian people are feeling the pinch - good. Maybe they'll do something about it, let their displeasure be known, urge their leaders to amend their ways and return to the global fraternity of responsible nations.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 12, 2014, 11:18:26 AM
What- Americans are showing their real face?
You are happy about other people hardships.
Nice!

Of course.  When fighting an enemy, sanctions are the least painful compared with the alternatives.  The only way to hold a corrupt, agressive dictator responsible is for him be overthrown or replaced by elections.  That can normally only come from within.

Once the Russian people discover that they have been mislead by propaganda, they may replace Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 12, 2014, 11:20:11 AM
Sleepycat is not American, he is from a much less developed country.  :D

But certainly more developed than Russia in it's present state.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 11:25:39 AM
But certainly more developed than Russia in it's present state.
In one year the development went down?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 11:30:59 AM
Of course.  When fighting an enemy, sanctions are the least painful compared with the alternatives.  The only way to hold a corrupt, agressive dictator responsible is for him be overthrown or replaced by elections.  That can normally only come from within.

Once the Russian people discover that they have been mislead by propaganda, they may replace Putin.

Are you advocating regime change?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 11:44:28 AM
Be careful Doll you're deviating from the official party line that the Russian people are experiencing "hardships" at all. ;)

 .

 
Actually- not yet. I know it for sure from my older son and my ex (South of Russia and Crimea).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on October 12, 2014, 11:46:20 AM
-Keep in mind it's not just the U.S. that's effecting the Russian economy, it's global economics and every country that's imposed sanctions or is otherwise involved in curtailing Russian aggression.



Besides countries imposing sanctions, private business leaders outside of Russia are hesitant to invest their money in Russia. Business leaders inside Russia are trying to get their money out of Russia. It's not America's fault that is happening. It's Putin's fault. He's providing instability inside and outside of his country. This is the reputation Putin has earned. Anybody who has money and is smart knows Russia is not a good place to invest money right now. Conquest and stealing other people's riches can make up for what Russia is lacking. After the cold winter passes by, we'll see if Putin decides to pull a Hitler.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 11:50:07 AM

Besides countries imposing sanctions, private business leaders outside of Russia are hesitant to invest their money in Russia. Business leaders inside Russia are trying to get their money out of Russia. It's not America's fault that is happening. It's Putin's fault. He's providing instability inside and outside of his country. This is the reputation Putin has earned. Anybody who has money and is smart knows Russia is not a good place to invest money right now. Conquest and stealing other people's riches can make up for what Russia is lacking. After the cold winter passes by, we'll see if Putin decides to pull a Hitler.
Billy, same happened in Russia in 1998. Russia recovered and it WILL recover now.
Russians are survivers by nature. It is in our blood.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 11:54:03 AM
Billy, same happened in Russia in 1998. Russia recovered and it WILL recover now.
Russians are survivers by nature. It is in our blood.

Bullies and thugs are in that nature as well.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on October 12, 2014, 11:56:21 AM
Billy, same happened in Russia in 1998. Russia recovered and it WILL recover now.
Russians are survivers by nature. It is in our blood.


It's hard to hold a big nation like Russia down. Russia will recover when this blows over but why does Russia have to recover from something that didn't need to happen? Are Russians so willing to suffer at the hand of Putin's policies? Russian people can do much better with the right man in charge.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 12:00:12 PM
Among the wife hunters they say:

You reap what you sow.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 12:06:13 PM

It's hard to hold a big nation like Russia down. Russia will recover when this blows over but why does Russia have to recover from something that didn't need to happen? Are Russians so willing to suffer at the hand of Putin's policies? Russian people can do much better with the right man in charge.
This situation is happening because of USA and EU sanctions. You think that Russians will response like "hands up"?
Never. Read the history of Russia. It bever happened , it will never happen. Trust me.
The more pressure on Russians, the more stubborn they are.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 12:11:57 PM
How heartless can you be?

How many men and women in your own country have suffered because of your President?  You may have no memory if Sergey Magnitsky or Anna Politskaya, but us normal people do.  Maybe it will take a war to destroy Russia - the cradle of all bad ideas, Russia - the graveyard, but justice is coming.  Shame on you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 12:15:50 PM
How heartless can you be?

How many men and women in your own country have suffered because of your President?   
None that I personally know.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 12:17:14 PM

Besides countries imposing sanctions, private business leaders outside of Russia are hesitant to invest their money in Russia. Business leaders inside Russia are trying to get their money out of Russia. It's not America's fault that is happening. It's Putin's fault. He's providing instability inside and outside of his country. This is the reputation Putin has earned. Anybody who has money and is smart knows Russia is not a good place to invest money right now. Conquest and stealing other people's riches can make up for what Russia is lacking. After the cold winter passes by, we'll see if Putin decides to pull a Hitler.
Have Russians ever waited until the winter was over?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 12, 2014, 12:27:42 PM
Have Russians ever waited until the winter was over?

You have a point there.   ;D
If I recall correctly, had it not been for a bad winter, Germany many have overrun Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 12:32:54 PM
You have a point there.   ;D
If I recall correctly, had it not been for a bad winter, Germany many have overrun Russia.
Just so you know- winter is ALWAYS cold in Russia. Be careful. :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 12:43:42 PM
You have a point there.   ;D
If I recall correctly, had it not been for a bad winter, Germany many have overrun Russia.
France, Sweden and Poland believe the same. A hungry bear in winter is at its most dangerous.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gylden on October 12, 2014, 12:47:19 PM
Uh......don't bears sleep in the winter??
 :P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on October 12, 2014, 12:48:15 PM
France, Sweden and Poland believe the same. A hungry bear in winter is at its most dangerous.


Run, Forest, Run.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 12:54:08 PM
Uh......don't bears sleep in the winter??
 :P
They should... but if they do not they get extremely nasty.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 12, 2014, 12:55:54 PM
This situation is happening because of USA and EU sanctions. You think that Russians will response like "hands up"?
Never. Read the history of Russia. It bever happened , it will never happen. Trust me.
The more pressure on Russians, the more stubborn they are.

Ironically, the pressure on ordinary Russians comes from within.

Russia is about to enact the law that will allow to seize foreign-owned assets in the state to compensate super-rich Russians affected by sanctions, at the expense of ordinary people.
http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892 (http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on October 12, 2014, 12:57:48 PM
Ironically, the pressure on ordinary Russians comes from within.

Russia is about to enact the law that will allow to seize foreign-owned assets in the state to compensate super-rich Russians affected by sanctions, at the expense of ordinary people.
http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892 (http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892)


Nice. no sympathy here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 12, 2014, 12:57:58 PM
France, Sweden and Poland believe the same. A hungry bear in winter is at its most dangerous.
Correct
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 01:00:05 PM

Nice. no sympathy here.

I agree with the godless Puerto Rican.  The only Russians I care about are the ones holding signs EDIT
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 01:01:07 PM
Ironically, the pressure on ordinary Russians comes from within.

Russia is about to enact the law that will allow to seize foreign-owned assets in the state to compensate super-rich Russians affected by sanctions, at the expense of ordinary people.
http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892 (http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-law-proposes-foreign-asset-seizures-compensate-those-affected-ukraine-sanctions-1701892)
Nothing unusual. In Europe pension funds were plundered to fight the economic crisis.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 12, 2014, 01:05:47 PM
EU countries plundered the diplomatic assets of other countries to compensate their elites?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on October 12, 2014, 01:11:05 PM
Have Russians ever waited until the winter was over?


If memory serves me correct, they always wait till winter is over before going on the offensive. Hitler and Napoleon made the mistake of fighting in Russian winter. Putin is going to let winter do a number on Ukraine just as it did Germany and France before going on the offensive.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on October 12, 2014, 01:11:53 PM
EU countries plundered the diplomatic assets of other countries to compensate their elites?
Indeed. The Dutch pension fund decreased their safety margin to 'rescue' Bank of Cyprus, some Spanish and Italian banks.
Orders from the EU.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 12, 2014, 01:22:05 PM
Which diplomatic assets did they steal from other countries? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 12, 2014, 02:44:13 PM
Nothing unusual. In Europe pension funds were plundered to fight the economic crisis.

Didn't I just read that putin is also going to rob pension funds?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 12, 2014, 06:35:42 PM
Look- you may be mad at politics, but you are happy about people's hardships.
Again- it is now American real face and I suspest that it's always been this.

 You don't seem very upset about Russia invading Ukraine and the hardships that it's caused Ukrainians in Krym and the SE area of UA.  It isnow the real face of Russia and I KNOW that it's always been this!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 12, 2014, 06:38:24 PM
there is a difference. You can say Putin is a hkhuilo. You are not allowed to use the word khuilo alone to refer to him.
That will be edited and on continuation punished.

 Would you care to explain why he cannot be called that?
 Everyone with 1/2 a cell of grey matter knows who we're talking about.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 12, 2014, 06:43:29 PM
This situation is happening because of USA and EU sanctions.


 Are you daft?  :cluebat:

 This situation is happening because of the invasion of yet another country by Russia.. This time their 'little brother'. For some silly reason the modern world of the west doesn't seem to like Russia's stealing others lands and lives..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 12, 2014, 06:57:53 PM

If memory serves me correct, they always wait till winter is over before going on the offensive. Hitler and Napoleon made the mistake of fighting in Russian winter. Putin is going to let winter do a number on Ukraine just as it did Germany and France before going on the offensive.

A pro-Ukrainian Putin admirer
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on October 12, 2014, 07:15:19 PM
Quote
Are you daft? 

mike unfortunatly some people are that daft

tHE propoganda war has worked well

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 12, 2014, 07:18:05 PM
Possibly brains are an option for brainwashing?  ;)

 Either that or they shrunk during the wash....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 12, 2014, 08:25:38 PM
Billy, same happened in Russia in 1998. Russia recovered and it WILL recover now.
Russians are survivers by nature. It is in our blood.

Big difference between merely surviving and actually prospering...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 01:01:08 AM
I posted earlier about song being sung at public functions-- everyone joins in-- children,grandmothers ,everyone! :D  It is always accompanied by much laughter about the subject matter ( which btw-the  censorship here is RIDICULOUS)
Quoting--
Lithuanians powerful singing "Putin - x * ylo" to match selection for Euro 2016 Vilnius, October 11, 14:19 Print Famous hit "Putin - x * ylo" sang not only match Belarus - Ukraine. The famous hit "Putin - x * ylo" sang not only match Belarus - Ukraine . Song of the Russian president and sang in Vilnius Lithuanian fans during the game selection for Euro 2016 Lithuania - Estonia (1: 0) . Read more: "I think everyone understood that fraternal country for Ukraine": Best Tweets match Belarus - Ukraine
Більше читайте тут: http://prosport.tsn.ua/sport/litovci-potuzhno-zaspivali-putin-h-ylo-na-matchi-yevro-2016-373358.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMd6GMij4fI
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 13, 2014, 01:32:26 AM
I hope the microphones are there to pick up this conversation between the Aus prime minister and Putin...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/13/g20-australia-russia-idUSL3N0S821M20141013

It will be a classic photo to show Abbott towering over Putin with them eyeballing each other!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 01:43:09 AM
I hope the microphones are there to pick up this conversation between the Aus prime minister and Putin...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/13/g20-australia-russia-idUSL3N0S821M20141013

It will be a classic photo to show Abbott towering over Putin with them eyeballing each other!
 

Quote from story that is headlining the news tonight here--
"Look, I'm going to shirtfront Mr Putin - you bet I am," Abbott told reporters, using an Australian Rules Football term meaning to hit someone front on and knock them to the ground."
"I'm going to be saying to Mr Putin, Australians were murdered and they were murdered by Russian-backed rebels using Russian supplied equipment," he said."
I will be happy if he is plain outright rude to him and persists in asking him about Russian complicity !Behave like a current affairs show type reporter with his foot in the door  !!Treat him with the respect he deserves-- that is a zero btw.  A verbal shirtfront I think!


ps   I   will have a t-shirt for him to wear-- you know-- with   that   word( CENSORED) on it !! :zap:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Mod3 on October 13, 2014, 03:08:10 AM
Would you care to explain why he cannot be called that?
 Everyone with 1/2 a cell of grey matter knows who we're talking about.
TOS.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 13, 2014, 05:44:42 AM
Big difference between merely surviving and actually prospering...
No kidding!
It doesn't matter- Russians will survive.
Actually, we have never lived really well (to your standards) so we are used to be hungry and proud.
Seriously. You can keep you prosperity for the USA.
I alone remember at least 4-5  hard periods in Russia (or USSR before).
We survived.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 07:07:16 AM
More daftness!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

 Why not try any get along and live a better life style with out killing others, your little brothers and stealing their lands?

 Move into the 21st century and don't try to relive the 19th and early 20thin the 'daze' of glory.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 13, 2014, 07:14:23 AM
Listen, Mr. Daft- I just responded to "congrats with worsening economics".
Again, where are friendly Americans when they are happy about other people hardships?
Nowhere.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 07:31:05 AM
Personally I'm happy that Russia is now feeling some of the hardships that they have inflicted on Ukraine. It should continue until Ukraine is restored to it's original state including restoring war damage as well as Krym and Kuban.

 But,  that won't make any impression on you I'm sure.

 Turn about's fair play..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on October 13, 2014, 07:58:16 AM
It seems there is a groundswell.  I first saw it in Stirlitz's posts.  Next it was heard in the protest chants of marchers.  Now in thunderous songs at football games. 


                                          PUTIN DICKHEAD....PUTIN DICKHEAD


Soon there will be Putin Dickhead T-shirts.  This could progress to the point of having Putin Dickhead Awards.

Because of propriety and good taste, we can not use the specific Russian term for "dickhead."   I say that is unfortunate because the Russian term with "Putin" sounds to my untrained ear far better than "Putin Dickhead."   It is poetry.   I guess "Putin" is another example of Russian terms that lose their meaning in translation, much like Pushkin's poems lose much when translated.   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 13, 2014, 09:48:01 AM
I'm in Ukraine at the moment. I sure would like to buy a Putin Khuilo! T-shirt if they are available.

Maybe the Putin Khuilo! song will become Ukraine's entry for next year's Eurovision song contest!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 13, 2014, 12:08:59 PM
This situation is happening because of USA and EU sanctions. You think that Russians will response like "hands up"?
Never. Read the history of Russia. It bever happened , it will never happen. Trust me.
The more pressure on Russians, the more stubborn they are.

Maybe not but the Russian government may be willing to get down on their knees to avoid said sanctions...

Putin Deals China Winning Hand as Sanctions Power Rival

 ..."Defying his former enemies in the U.S. and Europe may force Vladimir Putin to aid the ascent of his biggest rival in the east.

Isolated over Ukraine, Russia is relying on China for the investment it needs to avert a recession, three people involved in policy planning said, asking not to be identified discussing internal matters. This means caving in to pressure to grant China privileged access to the two things it wants most: raw materials and advanced weapons, two of the people said"...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-12/putin-deals-china-winning-hand-as-sanctions-power-rival.html

Chinese lenders grow wary of Russia

..."When Chinese premier Li Keqiang and his Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev start talks on Monday that are expected to culminate in the signing of more than 50 deals, it will be the latest demonstration of hopes that China is riding to the rescue as US and EU sanctions block new western funding for Russian banks and corporates.

But despite a steady flow of handshakes and signatures, Chinese money has been hard to secure. According to numerous executives and bankers, Chinese banks and investors are dragging their heels in Russia, unwilling to risk antagonising the west by providing the surge of funding that Moscow desperately needs"...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4e3ec352-51f8-11e4-b55e-00144feab7de.html#axzz3G3E0dNkt

These are both opinion pieces of course, however, they give some insight into the mindset behind the (just signed) trade deals and the possible pitfalls of signing trade pacts under duress.

Putin's gonna learn the Chinese are not Russia's friend. Anything they do geopolitically/economically is for the benefit of China, no one else.

Of note is the weapons technology deals. Here's how I see this going down... the Chinese get 4th generation Russian technology at a bargain price, reverse engineer the stuff, build new stuff with Russian supplied raw material (also now obtained at a bargain price) then sell it to Russia's military equipment customers at 1/2 the price and Russia's economy takes another hit. Paranoid? Well that's exactly what the Chinese do now which is why the Russian's up to now haven't been selling them their new(est) generation military stuff. :D

However, the Russian's aren't the only ones making bad deals with the Chinese right now. Canada just signed a trade deal which is going to come back and bite us in the bum as well... >:(

Brass




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 13, 2014, 12:24:02 PM
TOS.

I haven't read the TOS, but they usually refer to one poster insulting another, not to freedom of speech regarding someone who has invaded another country, ala Hitler; which is why some of us refer to him on occasion as Herr Putler.  And as missAmeno said, it has actually become part of the speech of millions of people around the World, because speech and words do change over time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 13, 2014, 12:25:22 PM
More daftness!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

 Why not try any get along and live a better life style with out killing others, your little brothers and stealing their lands?

 Move into the 21st century and don't try to relive the 19th and early 20thin the 'daze' of glory.

Amen to that!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 13, 2014, 12:28:06 PM
Listen, Mr. Daft- I just responded to "congrats with worsening economics".
Again, where are friendly Americans when they are happy about other people hardships?
Nowhere.

If you actually believe this then you really don't understand America or Americans at all.  We always root for the person or country which deserves our encouragement, not for a Hitler and his brainwashed countrymen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 13, 2014, 12:30:47 PM

Because of propriety and good taste, we can not use the specific Russian term for "dickhead."   I say that is unfortunate because the Russian term with "Putin" sounds to my untrained ear far better than "Putin Dickhead."   It is poetry.   I guess "Putin" is another example of Russian terms that lose their meaning in translation, much like Pushkin's poems lose much when translated.   


H-word is derived from the noun 'd--k'; the suffix 'lo' changes the noun's masculine gender to a neutral one, making it more offensive name to call anyone.
H-word is used to express the speaker's strong emotional involvement such as anger, derogatory dismissal, a feeling of intense disgust and even hatred towards the one who's lost the respect of the speaker.
Although vulgar, many people do not grant it the power to offend someone terribly  :-\
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 13, 2014, 12:34:55 PM
Of note is the weapons technology deals. Here's how I see this going down... the Chinese get 4th generation Russian technology at a bargain price, reverse engineer the stuff, build new stuff with Russian supplied raw material (also now obtained at a bargain price) then sell it to Russia's military equipment customers at 1/2 the price and Russia's economy takes another hit.

Yup.  I would say this whole invasion of Ukraine by Putin will be studied 50 years from now as the reason for Russia's downfall, just like people study Hitler and his mindset still right now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 13, 2014, 12:42:05 PM
Yup.  I would say this whole invasion of Ukraine by Putin will be studied 50 years from now as the reason for Russia's downfall, just like people study Hitler and his mindset still right now.

Seems like there are a lot of similarities as well.  The Russian propaganda machine and outright lies, agression and invasion of other countries, etc.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 13, 2014, 02:20:03 PM
And yet more bad news for the Russian people...

Russian Justice Ministry Says Law Violations Behind Move to Ban 'Memorial' Rights Group

..."MOSCOW, October 13 (RIA Novosti) - The reason why the Russian Ministry of Justice asked the country's the Supreme Court to liquidate the historical and civil rights group Memorial, because the organization has repeatedly and grossly violated Russian law, the Ministry's press service told RIA Novosti Monday."...

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20141013/194041692/Russian-Justice-Ministry-Says-Law-Violations-Behind-Move-to-Ban-Memorial-Rights-Group.html

The Kremlin’s Plan to Erase Russia’s Memory and Its Conscience

..."The ministry of justice is doing its best to shut down Memorial, the organization first headed by Andrei Sakharov, that is at the heart of civil society.

MOSCOW—The Russian government is threatening to eliminate Memorial, the most important support network for Russian civil society. On Friday, the ministry of justice filed a suit asking the supreme court “to liquidate”—a very heavy word—the country’s oldest civil-rights organization. A hearing is scheduled for Nov. 13."...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/13/the-kremlin-s-plan-to-erase-russia-s-memory-and-its-conscience.html


Kremlin Seeks to Silence Prominent Human Rights Group by Having Them 'Liquidated'

..."Russia’s justice ministry has applied to the country’s supreme court to “liquidate” Memorial, Russia’s leading human rights organisation.

The Nobel Peace Prize winning organisation has been a thorn in the side of the Kremlin for many years thanks to its work highlighting various human rights violations by the Russian government. Activists have denounced the attempt to close down the organisation, and said it proved that the Russian authorities perceive Memorial as “a threat”...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/13/Kremlin-seeks-to-silence-prominent-human-rights-group

It's beyond me how the Russians don't see their rights and freedoms being systematically stripped from them day after day.

It'll only be a matter of time until we start getting reports of Kremlin backed 'Pogroms' coming out of Russia. :(

Brass






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 02:57:11 PM
It seems there is a groundswell.  I first saw it in Stirlitz's posts.  Next it was heard in the protest chants of marchers.  Now in thunderous songs at football games. 


                                          PUTIN DICKHEAD....PUTIN DICKHEAD


Soon there will be Putin Dickhead T-shirts.  This could progress to the point of having Putin Dickhead Awards.

Because of propriety and good taste, we can not use the specific Russian term for "dickhead."   I say that is unfortunate because the Russian term with "Putin" sounds to my untrained ear far better than "Putin Dickhead."   It is poetry.   I guess "Putin" is another example of Russian terms that lose their meaning in translation, much like Pushkin's poems lose much when translated.   
I'm in Ukraine at the moment. I sure would like to buy a Putin Khuilo! T-shirt if they are available.

Maybe the Putin Khuilo! song will become Ukraine's entry for next year's Eurovision song contest!

T-Shirts and windcheaters are readily available everywhere in Ukraine--both in Russian and English.
Also flags,bumper stickers,caps!!Free enterprise and speech is alive and well in Ukraine!! ;D
SC-- particularly look at markets and street vendors in high traffic areas-- they really will be easy to to find.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 03:01:09 PM
H-word is derived from the noun 'd--k'; the suffix 'lo' changes the noun's masculine gender to a neutral one, making it more offensive name to call anyone.
H-word is used to express the speaker's strong emotional involvement such as anger, derogatory dismissal, a feeling of intense disgust and even hatred towards the one who's lost the respect of the speaker.
Although vulgar, many people do not grant it the power to offend someone terribly  :-\

This is a good explanation-- it is exactly how it is being used in Ukraine now--literally spat out.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on October 13, 2014, 03:05:30 PM
H-word is derived from the noun 'd--k'; the suffix 'lo' changes the noun's masculine gender to a neutral one, making it more offensive name to call anyone.
H-word is used to express the speaker's strong emotional involvement such as anger, derogatory dismissal, a feeling of intense disgust and even hatred towards the one who's lost the respect of the speaker.
Although vulgar, many people do not grant it the power to offend someone terribly  :-\


Me thinks that the party responsible for censoring the name clarifier is a Putler apologist.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 03:13:01 PM
It seems there is a groundswell.  I first saw it in Stirlitz's posts.  Next it was heard in the protest chants of marchers.  Now in thunderous songs at football games.

                   
Gator--the link is not even in Ukraine--it has become widespread.
The guy who wrote and performs this song has risen to close to No1 in Ukraine( maybe someone else can help explain this?)
I saw the song being sung at major public events in 2 cities in Ukraine where more that  50000 people were present( maybe 2 or 3 times that number)-- ( I actually showed a forum member live on Skype) and EVERYONE knows the words and sing along. The raucous laughter at the end is very funny.
The total contempt towards the subject matter is clear.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 03:14:49 PM

Me thinks that the party responsible for censoring the name clarifier is a Putler apologist.

Can you spell that out please?Who where,what?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 13, 2014, 03:25:21 PM
T-Shirts and windcheaters are readily available everywhere in Ukraine--both in Russian and English.
Also flags,bumper stickers,caps!!Free enterprise and speech is alive and well in Ukraine!! ;D
SC-- particularly look at markets and street vendors in high traffic areas-- they really will be easy to to find.

I would love to find someone in Ukraine to send me decals for the rear window on my truck that says "Glory to Ukraine" in English.

Also to send me  a case of Putin toilet paper.  I could sell them at the Farmers Market and Swap Meet for a good price.

Wifey is hesitant to purchase anything political.     ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 13, 2014, 04:12:52 PM
I would love to find someone in Ukraine to send me decals for the rear window on my truck that says "Glory to Ukraine" in English.

Also to send me  a case of Putin toilet paper.  I could sell them at the Farmers Market and Swap Meet for a good price.

Wifey is hesitant to purchase anything political.     ;D
http://www.cafepress.com/+ukraine+bumper-stickers?utm_campaign=international%20places%20bsm%20-%20us&utm_content=search-b&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ukraine%20bumper%20sticker&utm_source=google (http://www.cafepress.com/+ukraine+bumper-stickers?utm_campaign=international%20places%20bsm%20-%20us&utm_content=search-b&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ukraine%20bumper%20sticker&utm_source=google)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 04:21:50 PM
I'm in Ukraine at the moment. I sure would like to buy a Putin Khuilo! T-shirt if they are available.

Maybe the Putin Khuilo! song will become Ukraine's entry for next year's Eurovision song contest!


http://teespring.com/putin-khuilo

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 04:30:09 PM
There's some good PutinHuilo bumper stickers there at Dolls site also!  :crackwhip:



http://www.cafepress.com/+putin-huilo+bumper-stickers
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 13, 2014, 06:09:23 PM
You have a point there.   ;D
If I recall correctly, had it not been for a bad winter, Germany many have overrun Russia.

We are talking about Ukraine not Novgorod.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 06:52:21 PM
 Killed are the Russian general Sergei Andreychenko,Chechen commander for the special forces in Mariupol Andrey Borisov  +2 elite troops.

Russian general Sergei Andreychenko,Chechen commander for the special forces in Mariupol Andrey Borisov  were killed.
In Telmanovo on the night of 8 to 9 October around 23.00 commando battalion group "Dnepr-1" carried out a special operation, which resulted in a liquidated terrorist Andrey Borisov (Chechen) and three Russian military. Among the dead - Russian general Sergei Andreychenko.

About this 0629 said a law enforcement source.

According to the source, Sergey Andreychenko coordinated the activities of the Russian special services in the Sea of ​​Azov. Along with him were killed Russian saboteurs Vladimir Lysyakov and Basil Protasiv.

In Ukraine, the Russian commando group sent Khalil Abduhalimovich ARSLANOV.

Recall Chechen force represented a group of terrorists in Mariupol, and was sent to the city Girkinym. In June, the eve of the liberation of Mariupol, he was warned about the planned raid and managed to escape by faking his own death. 0629 as reported by sources, for the sake of killing two random guys. They burned in the car, and after the burned bodies were given for Chechena and his partner in crime.


http://m.0629.com.ua/news/641633

ps note  he is not a Chechen. His nickname is "Chechen"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 13, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
Too bad.. If this keeps up there won't be any Russian soldiers that will want to 'vacation' in SE Ukraine.. :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 13, 2014, 07:19:50 PM
http://www.cafepress.com/+ukraine+bumper-stickers?utm_campaign=international%20places%20bsm%20-%20us&utm_content=search-b&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ukraine%20bumper%20sticker&utm_source=google (http://www.cafepress.com/+ukraine+bumper-stickers?utm_campaign=international%20places%20bsm%20-%20us&utm_content=search-b&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=ukraine%20bumper%20sticker&utm_source=google)

Thanks, your a doll.       ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 13, 2014, 07:25:10 PM
Too bad.. If this keeps up there won't be any Russian soldiers that will want to 'vacation' in SE Ukraine.. :clapping:

At least no Russian officers.    ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 13, 2014, 07:59:58 PM
Too bad.. If this keeps up there won't be any Russian soldiers that will want to 'vacation' in SE Ukraine.. :clapping:

They dont actually know they are on "vacation" !! :)  And remarkably they often don't know where they are until someone starts shooting back !! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 14, 2014, 04:12:13 AM
Hopefully the Aust. prime minister gets a chance to do the world a favour by destroying Putin's macho man image...

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-diplomat-calls-australian-leader-immature-072929355.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 14, 2014, 05:08:08 AM
Hopefully the Aust. prime minister gets a chance to do the world a favour by destroying Putin's macho man image...

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-diplomat-calls-australian-leader-immature-072929355.html (http://news.yahoo.com/russian-diplomat-calls-australian-leader-immature-072929355.html)
Like Putin cares :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 14, 2014, 07:50:47 AM

The Russian Central Bank Admits Defeat


Russian Central Bank head Elvira Nabiullina has admitted that if currency markets continue to turn against the ruble the bank "won?t be able to restrain them."

Despite the central bank spending $6 billion of Russia's foreign exchange reserves in only 10 days to prop up the value of the ruble, it continued its slide against the dollar on Monday:

The admission that central bank is unable to defend a fixed exchange rate for the ruble against heavy selling of the currency by international investors demonstrates the extent of the country's problems as it battles falling oil prices and a weakening economy.

But it's unlikely to mark the end of state interventions in the market. Russian media report Nabiullina as saying:

I would like to stress that we?re not going to quit the foreign exchange market completely. We?re changing, so to speak, the nature of our participation in the foreign currency market. We?ll make interventions, if there are risks to financial stability.

The central bank is undergoing stress tests to gauge the effects of further sharp falls in oil prices after Brent crude oil traded on Monday as low as $87 a barrel, its lowest point in 18-months. Oil exports are crucial for the Russian economy, particularly with international sanctions on the country's financial and commodities sectors weighing on growth.


Falling commodity prices are helping to drive the flow of foreign capital out of the country as investors sell their ruble holdings pushing down the value of the ruble relative to other currencies.

So far in 2014, Russia has burned through over $55 billion of its international reserves, much of which has been spent buying rubles to prop up its value, leaving around $452 billion in the coffers. It looks like it will have to dip even further into this pot if it is to protect the country from economic disaster.

 http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-central-bank-admits-defeat-over-defending-the-ruble-2014-10#ixzz3G8Akc9Mq

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 14, 2014, 10:29:16 AM
The Russian Central Bank Admits Defeat


 :truce:  Another one of Putin's "accomplishments"...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 14, 2014, 10:38:38 AM
The central bank is undergoing stress tests to gauge the effects of further sharp falls in oil prices after Brent crude oil traded on Monday as low as $87 a barrel, its lowest point in 18-months. Oil exports are crucial for the Russian economy, particularly with international sanctions on the country's financial and commodities sectors weighing on growth.


Falling commodity prices are helping to drive the flow of foreign capital out of the country as investors sell their ruble holdings pushing down the value of the ruble relative to other currencies.


Unless the price of oil goes back up towards $100 per barrel quickly, this does not bode well for Putin's long term prospects as President.

I may have to modify my 5 year projection of his demise downwards.   ;D

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 14, 2014, 11:09:11 AM

Unless the price of oil goes back up towards $100 per barrel quickly, this does not bode well for Putin's long term prospects as President.

I may have to modify my 5 year projection of his demise downwards.   ;D

I'm not sure about that.  Once he has compleley silenced the free press, cut off the internet and communications to the masses, strongarms any opposition, it's pretty hard to get the truth out to the zombies.  Once again..... a closed society.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 14, 2014, 11:31:28 AM

Unless the price of oil goes back up towards $100 per barrel quickly, this does not bode well for Putin's long term prospects as President.


Putin can always try to reduce world oil supply and force prices back up by shutting down Russian oil wells!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on October 14, 2014, 02:05:22 PM
Putin can always try to reduce world oil supply and force prices back up by shutting down Russian oil wells!


Would you ever cut your nose to spite your face?


Putin is not as macho as he thinks he is. I'll gladly give him a dull knife for him to slice one nostril.  >:D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 14, 2014, 02:27:30 PM
Putin can always try to reduce world oil supply and force prices back up by shutting down Russian oil wells!

Yes, that would be a great strategy.............. to speed up the collapse of their economy.     :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 14, 2014, 07:47:40 PM
Hello Putin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZIBqOIbXi4
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2014, 04:43:49 AM
Yes, that would be a great strategy.............. to speed up the collapse of their economy.     :clapping:
BTW, you watch your economy (which is going South)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 15, 2014, 06:37:22 AM
BTW, you watch your economy (which is going South)


While people are cheering on what they see as negative news in the Russian economy, ours is tanking big time.   Just today alone, the bond interest rate has plummeted 12%...and the markets are still in free-fall.  Maybe we should worry about our own frail economy instead of trying to 'harm' another nations economy?  So far Putin was right, the boomerang is occurring.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 15, 2014, 08:55:42 AM
Forty Percent of Russians Don't Know Why Ruble's Value Is Plummeting
The Moscow Times
Oct. 10 2014 20:00
Last edited 20:02

Maxim Stulov / Vedomosti


As Russia's ruble hemorrhages value, more than 40 percent of Russians are unable to explain why the currency is depreciating, even as the majority admit that it is bound to impact their lives, a poll published Friday showed.

The ruble continued its months-long slide on Friday, falling 0.6 percent against the U.S. dollar by evening. The ruble has collapsed more than 20 percent against the dollar this year under pressure from a plunge in oil prices, a strong dollar and Western sanctions over the war in eastern Ukraine.

But when Russian citizens were asked what was behind the currency's fall, 41 percent couldn't provide an answer, a study by state-run pollster the Public Opinion Foundation found.

Of 1,500 respondents, 23 percent blamed United States and European Union sanctions against Russia for pushing down the ruble.

Another 10 percent pointed to the war in eastern Ukraine; 8 percent blamed problems in the Russian economy, which is running close to zero growth this year; and 6 percent said spoiled relations with the West were responsible.

Only 5 percent pointed to the falling oil price. Brent oil was below $90 dollars per barrel on Friday, down from a high of $113 in July.

Nonetheless, a majority of respondents expect to be affected: 41 percent said they believe changes in the ruble exchange rate will have an "acute" impact on their lives, while another 20 percent anticipate a "weak" impact.

The survey was conducted in 100 towns and cities across Russia and had a margin of error not exceeding 3.6 percent.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509267.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 15, 2014, 09:12:49 AM

Only 5 percent pointed to the falling oil price. Brent oil was below $90 dollars per barrel on Friday, down from a high of $113 in July.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509267.html

Looks like it will drop even more, which is usually good for the US economy, and very bad for Russia's:


http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/money/cramer-oil-hit-by-perfect-storm/ar-BB9eoxV
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 15, 2014, 09:28:46 AM
BTW, you watch your economy (which is going South)


The US economy has far more resiliency than the Russian economy.  Let's wait and see what happens on November 4th.  There is pent-up demand for work to be done, we just need a Congress which will let it happen.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/crumbling-us-fix-seen-in-trillions-of-dollars-of-global-money/ar-AA6QWza
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on October 15, 2014, 09:56:14 AM
BTW, you watch your economy (which is going South)

Yes, sell all your assets, and exchange all your dollars for rubles. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2014, 10:16:39 AM
Yes, sell all your assets, and exchange all your dollars for rubles.
Actually, it is the best time to do it, especially for the ones who want to buy real estate property in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 15, 2014, 10:53:22 AM
Actually, it is the best time to do it, especially for the ones who want to buy real estate property in Russia.

If you believe that the Rouble has already bottomed out and will rebound soon.

Also isn't there some proposed new law in Russia about giving the government the power to seize foreigner's assets to compensate Putin's cronies for their losses? With this sovereign risk why would any individual bother to invest in real estate in Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2014, 11:14:57 AM
If you believe that the Rouble has already bottomed out and will rebound soon.

Also isn't there some proposed new law in Russia about giving the government the power to seize foreigner's assets to compensate Putin's cronies for their losses? With this sovereign risk why would any individual bother to invest in real estate in Russia?
Banks still do transactions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 15, 2014, 11:46:55 AM
The Kremlin must be really p*ssed off with the Saudis for tanking the oil price.
Too bad there aren't any Russian speakers living in Saudi Arabia for Putin to stage an invasion protect.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 15, 2014, 03:20:53 PM
Actually, it is the best time to do it, especially for the ones who want to buy real estate property in Russia.

Why in the world would any sane person want to buy property in a land controlled by a Huilonista?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on October 15, 2014, 04:59:02 PM

Let's wait and see what happens on November 4th

November 4th is Melbourne Cup day.  Nothing else that happens in the world that day matters at all.  :devil:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 15, 2014, 06:21:36 PM
The Kremlin must be really p*ssed off with the Saudis for tanking the oil price.

The Saudi's claim that they just want to maintain market share at a time when oil is plunging all over the World, so they are looking for new customers to do just that.

I think it has more to do with the USA becoming more of an oil producer than in years past. 

I doubt if Obama was smart enough to think of getting them to do this; but you never know.  He (Obama) clearly blamed Putin for upsetting the fraternity of peaceful nations by annexing Crimea etc. when he gave his speech in France commemorating the actions of the US military and allies during WWII.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 04:09:04 AM
It seems the average Russian citizen thinks being subjected to crippling sanctions will be good for their country...

http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 04:59:00 AM
It seems the average Russian citizen thinks being subjected to crippling sanctions will be good for their country...

http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html (http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html)
Sanctions have a lot of positive for Russian economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 16, 2014, 06:16:20 AM
It seems the average Russian citizen thinks being subjected to crippling sanctions will be good for their country...

http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html (http://news.yahoo.com/majority-russians-western-sanctions-help-economy-poll-105156381--business.html)


Well we shall see if the sanctions put Russians in a position where they have to be more self-sufficient.  They have an enormous amount of resources, so if they use what they have, the sanctions could ultimately benefit them in the respect that they 'learn to fish'.  The boomerang continues though, as our markets are set to open down once again.   


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 07:09:26 AM
Sanctions have a lot of positive for Russian economy.

Such as?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 16, 2014, 07:43:00 AM
Such as?

They've lost weight because of the food import ban.
Because the prices have risen and the 'rubble' has fallen they eat less.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 07:48:57 AM
Such as?

Well we shall see if the sanctions put Russians in a position where they have to be more self-sufficient.  They have an enormous amount of resources, so if they use what they have, the sanctions could ultimately benefit them in the respect that they 'learn to fish'.  The boomerang continues though, as our markets are set to open down once again.   


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 07:51:50 AM
They've lost weight because of the food import ban.
Because the prices have risen and the 'rubble' has fallen they eat less.
Russia is a huge country with a lot of food PLUS there are China and ALL the Asian countries what will be happy to sell food to Russia.
Like we need Polish apples! ;D
HAHAHAAAA
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 07:54:40 AM
They've lost weight because of the food import ban.
Because the prices have risen and the 'rubble' has fallen they eat less.
My son lives in Russia, I am on Skype with him daily.
They are eating same way.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 08:00:39 AM
Russia now has many new contracts with different countries including Belorussia, many Asian countries and Latin America.
Read the news, guys
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 08:48:39 AM
But for example are the substitutes really as good as real French cheese or Belgian chocolate?


Well we shall see if the sanctions put Russians in a position where they have to be more self-sufficient.  They have an enormous amount of resources, so if they use what they have, the sanctions could ultimately benefit them in the respect that they 'learn to fish'.  The boomerang continues though, as our markets are set to open down once again.   


Fathertime!

Is it really that easy for a country that had no previous experience in manufacturing a particular product, to make that product from scratch and have it nearly as good quality and price competitive as made by another country that specialises in making that product? You know, the concept of specialisation?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 08:54:00 AM
But for example are the substitutes really as good as real French cheese or Belgian chocolate?

Is it really that easy for a country that had no previous experience in manufacturing a particular product, to make that product from scratch and have it nearly as good quality and price competitive as made by another country that specialises in making that product? You know, the concept of specialisation?
Sleepycat, Russia had this experience in 1998 when we had default. Ruble dropped 4 times (TIMES)
It was a good wake up call and Russia started producing many more things.
Same is happening now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 08:59:16 AM
Forgot to cry over French cheese and Belgian chocolate - I am not sure if I've ever tried this chocolate and I don't care for French cheese.
What I am implying is- in the situation like this Russian don't care. Like I said before, we will eat dirt but stay proud.
This is what you will never understand.
Also, read history of Russia. It has been never conquered (after Mongolians)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Wayne on October 16, 2014, 09:57:24 AM
My wife says Russian chocolate is no good compared to Ukrainian chocolate. She also thinks Ukrainian beer is better than Russian.
 
Your talking about buying land in Russia as an American--but is that even possible? I know in Ukraine you can buy a flat or land as long as it is not farm land.
 
Also, it is typical to list the price for land in USD.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 10:15:04 AM
As Doll suggested they'll rather eat dirt and be proud so whether Russian chocolate taste any good seems irrelevant!

Plus with the new proposed law giving the government power to confiscate foreigner's assets to compensate Putin's cronies, why would anyone risk their money to buy real estate in Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 10:15:30 AM
You forgot- my older som live in Russia. He can buy. I am also a RF citizen. Remember? :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 10:18:16 AM
As Doll suggested they'll rather eat dirt and be proud so whether Russian chocolate taste any good seems irrelevant!

Plus with the new proposed law giving the government power to confiscate foreigner's assets to compensate Putin's cronies, why would anyone risk their money to buy real estate in Russia?
Russian chocolate is very good, I always bring it from Russia for my son and my friends.
But will gladly forget the taste of it and many other products but stay proud.
Anyone can keep dollars, I can buy anything there. Now it is a very good time for buying real estate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 16, 2014, 10:24:34 AM
Wayne was talking about Americans (or foreigners in general) buying real estate in Russia.

Are you saying foreigners should not consider the implication of that new proposed asset confiscation law, when deciding whether to purchase real estate in Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 16, 2014, 12:10:52 PM
What I am implying is- in the situation like this Russian don't care. Like I said before, we will eat dirt but stay proud.
This is what you will never understand
.

Oh but we do understand.  You are so incredibly foolish that you would like to have your dirt and eat it too!

In other words, you would like the World to ignore the fact that Russia invaded another sovereign country, against the law, so now you will be so stubborn and refuse to make things right with Ukraine that you would rather eat dirt!

Can you please make a film of yourself and other proud/stubborn/foolish Russians eating dirt?  Please post that film to youtube and provide all of us with a link, we would love to see it!

But there are other Russians, those not so foolish as you, those Billionaire oligarchs who are losing millions of dollars, possibly hundreds of millions, who would prefer to have a regime change.

Right now there's Khodorkovsky who has stated publicly what he wants -- but you can be very sure there are other wiser ones who make plans silently.

5 years or less and your "dear leader" will be gone.  In the meantime, please eat some more dirt!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 16, 2014, 12:14:44 PM
You forgot- my older som live in Russia. He can buy. I am also a RF citizen. Remember? :D

Go home to your motherland proud Russian Federation citizen!  They need you!  Take your 18 year old son with you, and give him to the Russian military to do his duty!  No more arguments, no more excuses!  They need you and your son!  They need everybody they can get, to protect the motherland against naked Ukrainian aggression!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2014, 02:50:48 PM
AC, my younger is in USAF. He makes decisions by himself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 03:08:10 AM
Go home to your motherland proud Russian Federation citizen!  They need you!  Take your 18 year old son with you, and give him to the Russian military to do his duty!  No more arguments, no more excuses!  They need you and your son!  They need everybody they can get, to protect the motherland against naked Ukrainian aggression!!
So, you are suggesting an American citizen who is in a military (USAF) go to Russia and be in Russian military?
What's wrong with you?
They need an American airman? Really?
Very interesting. :clapping:
You need to check out if your ideas are ok with US government.
Here I am being VERY serious.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chicagoguy on October 17, 2014, 07:22:47 AM
Don't mess with Doll.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 07:43:03 AM
Don't mess with Doll.
So, basically, AC wants to send the USA military people to be on a Russia's side against Ukraine.
Very interesting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 17, 2014, 08:35:10 AM
This is why it is silly to suggest Russia can successfully neutralise the effects of the declining Rouble by substituting imports with domestic production: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/the-ruble-s-senseless-and-harmful-devaluation/509557.html


"But in Russia, nonmilitary end-use industrial products account for only 4 percent of exports, and 45 percent of imports consist of goods not produced in this country at all.

For example, Russia has no manufacturers of computers, mobile phones and other forms of home electronics. That means Russian firms and consumers buying foreign equipment and technology in an effort to keep pace with progress will have to pay more for those products."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 17, 2014, 08:42:01 AM
So, basically, AC wants to send the USA military people to be on a Russia's side against Ukraine.
Very interesting.

More importantly, how do you feel about all this, Doll?

It wouldn't be the first time political allegiance have broken/separated families, of course, but I'm curious to know (within the boundaries of divulging personal/private affairs on an internet forum) how the current situation has effected your family?

Having two sons in uniform myself. I find most anything I say in the meat world or by correspondence is tempered with the thoughts that my views/position on world affairs could effect those closest to me or (if became my government's policy) even place them in harms way.

May I assume your son does not share some or all of your views on Russia/Ukraine and/or does this factor in your considering returning to Russia?

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 17, 2014, 09:27:29 AM
So, you are suggesting an American citizen who is in a military (USAF) go to Russia and be in Russian military?
What's wrong with you?
They need an American airman? Really?
Very interesting. :clapping:
You need to check out if your ideas are ok with US government.
Here I am being VERY serious.

If your son is being influenced by you then he is a clear liability and not an asset to the US Military.  It was you who said that you wanted to go back to Russia and to take your son with you.

If your son is separate from you and has been for a number of years then let's hope he can think for himself.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 17, 2014, 09:31:18 AM
So, basically, AC wants to send the USA military people to be on a Russia's side against Ukraine.
Very interesting.

Nice try, but yet again you show why you are not capable of being in this debate.  You take one thing and extrapolate it into something entirely different and try to put words in my mouth.

It's been you all along talking about how great Russia is and how you want to go back home and buy some real estate, and it was you who mentioned that you have a son here who you might want to take back.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 17, 2014, 10:23:24 AM
If your son is being influenced by you then he is a clear liability and not an asset to the US Military.  It was you who said that you wanted to go back to Russia and to take your son with you.

If your son is separate from you and has been for a number of years then let's hope he can think for himself.


She never stated she wanted to take her son with her.


Comments on family are off limits, BTW.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 10:37:41 AM
If your son is being influenced by you then he is a clear liability and not an asset to the US Military.  It was you who said that you wanted to go back to Russia and to take your son with you.

If your son is separate from you and has been for a number of years then let's hope he can think for himself.
Where did I say I wanted to take my son?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 10:43:13 AM
Nice try, but yet again you show why you are not capable of being in this debate.  You take one thing and extrapolate it into something entirely different and try to put words in my mouth.

It's been you all along talking about how great Russia is and how you want to go back home and buy some real estate, and it was you who mentioned that you have a son here who you might want to take back.
Again- where did I say that?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 10:45:05 AM
If your son is being influenced by you then he is a clear liability and not an asset to the US Military.  It was you who said that you wanted to go back to Russia and to take your son with you.

If your son is separate from you and has been for a number of years then let's hope he can think for himself.
My very kind advice for you is to shut up about my younger (and older too).
One more time- you are trying to bully an American military here.
Got it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 10:47:41 AM
More importantly, how do you feel about all this, Doll?

   how the current situation has effected your family?

 
 
How do I feel about what?
No situation "effected" my family.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 17, 2014, 11:18:03 AM
How do I feel about what?
No situation "effected" my family.

My question is would you want or expect your son to return to Russia with you and how has he reacted to you considering returning (assuming you've discussed it with him, of course)?

Did the current sabre rattling between Russia and the U.S. make you think of leaving the U.S.? In other words are you thinking of returning to Russia because of loyalty to your homeland?

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 11:22:16 AM
My question is would you want or expect your son to return to Russia with you and how has he reacted to you considering returning (assuming you've discussed it with him, of course)?

Did the current sabre rattling between Russia and the U.S. make you think of leaving the U.S.? In other words are you thinking of returning to Russia because of loyalty to your homeland?

Brass
My son can stay here or moveto any other place REGARDLESS the situation. I am asking "what situation" because the thread is about politics.
Enough about family.
Seriously.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 17, 2014, 11:23:33 AM
AC, dear, what words did I put in your mouth?
Here is what you wrote
Go home to your motherland proud Russian Federation citizen!  They need you!  Take your 18 year old son with you, and give him to the Russian military to do his duty!  No more arguments, no more excuses!  They need you and your son!  They need everybody they can get, to protect the motherland against naked Ukrainian aggression!!
See? " No more arguments, no more excuses!" for an USAF airman. :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 17, 2014, 11:28:16 AM
My son can stay here or moveto any other place REGARDLESS the situation. I am asking "what situation" because the thread is about politics.
Enough about family.
Seriously.

Alright. Withdrawn.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 17, 2014, 11:27:59 PM
Specter of '98 Default Stalks Russia's Record Ruble Falls

As the Russian ruble plunges to repeated record lows and the Central Bank ramps up market interventions to defend it, few want to mention Aug. 17, 1998.

On that day, amid budgetary chaos and dwindling foreign currency reserves, Russia abandoned its support of the ruble and announced a default, prompting panic on the streets and sending the currency on its way to a 75 percent devaluation by the year's end.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509680.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 04:50:49 AM
Weaken Russia economically
Separate Russia from her Nukes
Dismember Russia into new republics
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 05:19:10 AM
Specter of '98 Default Stalks Russia's Record Ruble Falls

As the Russian ruble plunges to repeated record lows and the Central Bank ramps up market interventions to defend it, few want to mention Aug. 17, 1998.

On that day, amid budgetary chaos and dwindling foreign currency reserves, Russia abandoned its support of the ruble and announced a default, prompting panic on the streets and sending the currency on its way to a 75 percent devaluation by the year's end.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509680.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509680.html)
I wrote already- I was in Russia (single nother with 2 sons) when it happaned 1998. Ruble dropped 4 times. It is did seem terrible but we survived. As a result, Russia started producing much more food and other things IN the country.
When I go there - I can see that a lot of food is "Russian" in the stores.
I am from Kuban so they grow and consume only local fruit and vegetable. There is some stuff imported but people try to buy local- it is cheaper and much better.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 18, 2014, 07:12:50 AM
Yes I agree, it is not difficult to produce local food to substitute for imports.
But what about other consumer products?
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/the-ruble-s-senseless-and-harmful-devaluation/509557.html

"But in Russia, nonmilitary end-use industrial products account for only 4 percent of exports, and 45 percent of imports consist of goods not produced in this country at all.

For example, Russia has no manufacturers of computers, mobile phones and other forms of home electronics. That means Russian firms and consumers buying foreign equipment and technology in an effort to keep pace with progress will have to pay more for those products."

It's not like Russia can overnight develop industries to produces these items that are not previously produced in the country. Rather than foodstuff, it is those high price imported items like iPhones, flat screen TVs and tablet computers that are most sensitive to exchange rate fluctuations.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 07:22:49 AM
Doll, what you described in 1998 is normal economic activity no sanctions. the only people who get rich during sanctions are black marketers.  Have fun with that. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 07:42:09 AM
Sleepycat, but most of "not produced in Russia" products are imported from China and Japan that didn't apply sanctions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 07:42:57 AM
Doll, what you described in 1998 is normal economic activity no sanctions. the only people who get rich during sanctions are black marketers.  Have fun with that.
1998 default was not "normal" as well.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 18, 2014, 08:11:42 AM
Sleepycat, but most of "not produced in Russia" products are imported from China and Japan that didn't apply sanctions.

The problem is not sanctions, rather the fall in the Rouble will cause Russian consumers to have to pay more for those products.

BTW Japan has imposed sanctions on Russia. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/24/uk-japan-russia-sanctions-idUKKCN0HJ0I520140924
(maybe as a late payback for the cheapshot move by the USSR of waiting until the dying days of WWII before declaring war on Japan just to steal some Japanese islands?)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 09:07:24 AM
1998 default was not "normal" as well.

If you normally won't pay your bills, defaults are normal.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 09:10:04 AM
If you normally won't pay your bills, defaults are normal.
What? Russian pay their bill same way as you, believe me.
It was a tough time , but we survived.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 09:10:12 AM
The problem is not sanctions, rather the fall in the Rouble will cause Russian consumers to have to pay more for those products.

BTW Japan has imposed sanctions on Russia. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/24/uk-japan-russia-sanctions-idUKKCN0HJ0I520140924
(maybe as a late payback for the cheapshot move by the USSR of waiting until the dying days of WWII before declaring war on Japan just to steal some Japanese islands?)

There is less than 100,000 people living on those islands.  When Russia returns to the chaotic days of the Soviet collapse, Japan will take back those Islands without firing a shot.  $ 500,000 in bribes should do it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 09:11:53 AM
What? Russian pay their bill same way as you, believe me.
It was a tough time , but we survived.

You believe what you want, it doesn't make it true.  Other Russians are sick of Russians like you who do nothing but ape the drivel of KGB gangsters.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 09:18:55 AM
You believe what you want, it doesn't make it true.  Other Russians are sick of Russians like you who do nothing but ape the drivel of KGB gangsters.
I don't care and you use not facts but bad rude language opinion.
One more time- look at your own economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 09:21:20 AM
When are you leaving?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 09:39:15 AM
When are you leaving?
Вечерней лошадью.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 09:43:04 AM
Tootles
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 18, 2014, 10:19:33 AM
I am from Kuban so they grow and consume only local fruit and vegetable. There is some stuff imported but people try to buy local- it is cheaper and much better.

Very true!

Russian (and Ukrainian) consumers usually care about the quality of food, which is why they are far from being confident about the safety and quality of the food imported from China, and quite rightly so, especially when ''committed to revealing the truth'' Russia's State TV Channel One airs programs like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzUAh5fLybY
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on October 18, 2014, 10:35:23 AM
A high-profile Russian official said in an interview with a Russian Government Newspaper that Zbigniew Brzezinski's 'hit-on-vulnerable-spots strategy', initially aimed at breaking up the USSR,  has been launched to target Russia, with its ultimate objective being  ''capturing Russian territory and mineral resources''

http://rt.com/politics/196456-russia-fsb-patrushev-global/ (http://rt.com/politics/196456-russia-fsb-patrushev-global/)

If it's going to be the Kremlin's new ideological pillar, then my post doesn't wander far from the initial topic of this thread
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 12:27:44 PM
There is less than 100,000 people living on those islands.  When Russia returns to the chaotic days of the Soviet collapse, Japan will take back those Islands without firing a shot.  $ 500,000 in bribes should do it.

No doubt.  I'm just waiting for the day when Germany takes back E. Prussia as well (Kaliningrad).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 12:57:07 PM
What? Russian pay their bill same way as you, believe me.

Really?  That's not what the professionals think; the ones who rate a countries ability to pay their bills:


http://www.livemint.com/Politics/ttizRwu7coKmuqV0Zos9sK/Russias-credit-rating-lowered-by-Moodys-on-sluggish-growth.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 02:35:50 PM
No doubt.  I'm just waiting for the day when Germany takes back E. Prussia as well (Kaliningrad).

The Residents of Kaliningrad will invite the Germans.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 02:36:17 PM
No doubt.  I'm just waiting for the day when Germany takes back E. Prussia as well (Kaliningrad).
Hate to dissapoint you :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 02:38:41 PM
Really?  That's not what the professionals think; the ones who rate a countries ability to pay their bills:


http://www.livemint.com/Politics/ttizRwu7coKmuqV0Zos9sK/Russias-credit-rating-lowered-by-Moodys-on-sluggish-growth.html (http://www.livemint.com/Politics/ttizRwu7coKmuqV0Zos9sK/Russias-credit-rating-lowered-by-Moodys-on-sluggish-growth.html)
I mean just people who pay their bills for electricity and water (just like you all do).
Speaking of Russia's debt- look at the USA debt.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 18, 2014, 02:39:46 PM
The Residents of Kaliningrad will invite the Germans.
I doubt. The is an "anti- separatist" law in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 02:43:24 PM
Hate to dissapoint you :D

The point you are missing is that your "dear leader" Putin opened a Pandora's box by his illegal annexation of Crimea.  Now that he did that, what will stop other nations from following suit?

International law benefits all providing that all respect it.  Since Russia feels that they don't need to respect international law, neither does anyone else -- not that Germany would ever try such a stunt, German public opinion is very strong that Germany should remain more or less a pacifist type of nation after past events.

This does not change the fact that Russia is likely going to be going into a deep recession in 2015.  After a few years of that, anything is possible.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 18, 2014, 02:45:53 PM
Ukraine has a separatist law also... BUT Russia invaded and took  land and murdered folks despite this. Maybe Laws aren't as strong as bullets from Russo-terrorists?

 Turn about's fair play!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 02:49:26 PM
I mean just people who pay their bills for electricity and water (just like you all do).
Speaking of Russia's debt- look at the USA debt.

As usual you miss the point.  Russia as a country can no longer borrow money as inexpensively as a nation as in years prior to their invasion of Ukraine.

Those ratings are based on a country's ability to repay it's debt.  The USA has a GDP of over 16 Trillion dollars and so we retain a very good rating.

Russia has a very low GDP as they do not produce anything other than selling oil and natural gas; and they are shooting themselves in the foot over those.  Their best highest paying trading partners were in W. Europe.  Because of Putin's arrogance and foolishness in starting a war against Ukraine, his best partners have enacted sanctions against the Russian economy.
 
Furthermore if he's foolish enough to slow down or shut down gas to Europe this winter it will cement his legacy as being an untrustworthy trading partner with Europe and further ruin Russia's credit rating.

Capiche?  I doubt it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 02:50:53 PM
Really?  That's not what the professionals think; the ones who rate a countries ability to pay their bills:


http://www.livemint.com/Politics/ttizRwu7coKmuqV0Zos9sK/Russias-credit-rating-lowered-by-Moodys-on-sluggish-growth.html

Can you argue against the facts?  Only with more facts.  They have none AC.  Good post.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 18, 2014, 03:14:17 PM
Oil continues to plummet.  Very bad news for Russia:


http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/


http://www.oil-price.net/

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 03:47:18 PM
ПРАВОСЛАВНЫЕ ФАШИСТЫ: http://youtu.be/jIiDX6Hn81E

Not all Russians are idiots
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 18, 2014, 04:48:03 PM
Kudrin Slams Fixing Exchange Rate as Russia's Ruble Touches New Lows

The ruble weakened Friday to a fresh historic low as the Central Bank said its market interventions to slow the currency's fall this month had climbed above $10 billion and former Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin warned against fixing the exchange rate to defuse the crisis.

Shortly after 11:00 a.m. the Russian currency devalued to the record level of 46.29 rubles against the euro-dollar basket, the benchmark used by the Central Bank.

During morning trading in Moscow the ruble also passed the 41 ruble to the U.S. dollar mark for the third time this week, and touched a record low of 52.59 against the euro.

The ruble has weakened by almost 20 percent this year against the euro-dollar basket in the face of Western sanctions against Moscow over the crisis in Ukraine and a sliding global oil price.

Falls have intensified in recent days as the price of Brent crude dropped to four-year lows, although oil pared recent declines Thursday. This, together with an approaching end-of-the-month tax deadline that has increased demand for rubles, helped the currency recover slightly to 45,74 against the basket by 9 p.m.








http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/509644.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 05:49:11 PM
Looks like Russia is losing the information war too
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 18, 2014, 08:54:44 PM
I doubt. The is an "anti- separatist" law in Russia.

So the anti separatist concept is good enough for Russia but not good enough for Ukraine. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

If Mother Russia is such a paradise to belong to then there should be no need for the anti separation law as no one will want to leave!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on October 18, 2014, 09:33:10 PM
I don't care and you use not facts but bad rude language opinion.
One more time- look at your own economy.

Doll, when they got you really, shoot them  :D

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByzVqhDIMAEJZzH.jpg:large)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 18, 2014, 10:34:16 PM
Sexy sexy sexy

Beautiful propaganda

More lies
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 18, 2014, 11:15:41 PM
Looks like she never received any training in firearms safety...

Finger off trigger until you are ready to shoot!!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on October 19, 2014, 01:07:35 AM
Finger off trigger until you are ready to shoot!!!

But Doll is ready I think  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: missAmeno on October 19, 2014, 05:06:06 AM
But Doll is ready I think  :D

Do you even comprehend what you are saying?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 19, 2014, 07:55:13 AM
Nyet, be zenyat Angleeski
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 09:25:25 AM
Nyet, be zenyat Angleeski
What is it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 19, 2014, 10:08:20 AM
So the anti separatist concept is good enough for Russia but not good enough for Ukraine. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?


Of course it is, but what do you expect from thugs and thieves who cannot mind their own doorstep but instead think they have a right to tell others how to live?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on October 19, 2014, 10:31:44 AM
Do you even comprehend what you are saying?

Yes, sure. I proposed the radical way to shut up tiresome rude people.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 19, 2014, 10:37:20 AM
Yes, sure. I proposed the radical way to shut up tiresome rude people.

Oh, so now you're proposing that Doll or some other Russian shoot us "tiresome rude people"?  Is that what you're proposing -- violence to solve your problems, because you are not capable of winning any other way?  What a surprise.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 12:24:29 PM
So the anti separatist concept is good enough for Russia but not good enough for Ukraine. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

If Mother Russia is such a paradise to belong to then there should be no need for the anti separation law as no one will want to leave!
I don't know what is "good enough" for Ukraine. Kaliningrad id Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 12:27:46 PM
Do you even comprehend what you are saying?
Do you even comprehend it was the response to a joke?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 12:30:25 PM
Oh, so now you're proposing that Doll or some other Russian shoot us "tiresome rude people"?  Is that what you're proposing -- violence to solve your problems, because you are not capable of winning any other way?  What a surprise.
Iraq and Syria.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 19, 2014, 04:20:38 PM
Yes, sure. I proposed the radical way to shut up tiresome rude people.

In my country the way you fight facts are with other facts.  But you can try and shut us up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 19, 2014, 04:51:43 PM
In my country the way you fight facts are with other facts.  But you can try and shut us up.
Facts from youtube :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 19, 2014, 04:59:47 PM
At least that beats pulling 'facts' out of thin air as you continue to do.  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 19, 2014, 05:51:38 PM
There is less than 100,000 people living on those islands.  When Russia returns to the chaotic days of the Soviet collapse, Japan will take back those Islands without firing a shot.  $ 500,000 in bribes should do it.
There is a LOT less than 100,000 people living there, but very few Japanese.   




Interesting but I don't think Japan is getting those islands back...maybe it has to be chalked up as a consequence of WWII.




Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 19, 2014, 06:13:45 PM
There are almost 600,000 people living in the Sakhalin Islands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 20, 2014, 02:04:02 AM
The Russian defense budget is hostage to the price of oil.  They had a hard time supplying the when gas was climbing.  What do you think will happen now that gas is sustainably falling?


Another Soviet collapse?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 20, 2014, 03:19:01 AM
Lord, Europe lives on Russian gas, they are not idiots.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 20, 2014, 09:05:52 AM
Lord, Europe lives on Russian gas, they are not idiots.

This opinion piece in the Moscow Times suggests this will change...

Russia's Gas Monopoly Is Over

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-s-gas-monopoly-is-over/509740.html

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 20, 2014, 09:30:14 AM
Iraq and Syria.

This forum is about the Middle East? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 20, 2014, 09:36:29 AM
This opinion piece in the Moscow Times suggests this will change...

Russia's Gas Monopoly Is Over

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-s-gas-monopoly-is-over/509740.html

Brass

Both Ukraine and Poland already have plenty of natural gas, they just need American technical expertise to get it:


"Aside from heightening offshore competition, shale gas imperils Russia's European position because its political rivals are attempting to harness it for their own benefit. It is considered a national security interest in Ukraine and Poland, which possess some of the largest reserves on the continent. Ukraine's basins contain 20 times that country's annual gas demand, and Poland's — about 35 times."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 20, 2014, 10:11:43 AM
This forum is about the Middle East?
it is about "don't judge to not be judged".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 20, 2014, 10:17:28 AM
 :cluebat: Only if this is your picture!  :cluebat:


The title says ," More Bad news for Russia.."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 20, 2014, 12:08:48 PM
:cluebat: Only if this is your picture!  :cluebat:


The title says ," More Bad news for Russia.."
Sir. in the same thread somebody suggested an USAF airman to to Russia and fight against Ukraine.
What does HTIS have to do with the "title"?
People tend to do off topics.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 20, 2014, 12:17:18 PM
And you lead the way many times.. Even you have to honestly admit that bringing the middle east into this thread is streaching..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 20, 2014, 04:37:26 PM
Putler's Playbook! Stalin and Hitler v2.0

 An excerpt from Wiki about the 1939 Nazi-Soviet, "Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact,"



" It was only in 1989 that the Soviet authorities admitted the existence of the secret protocol of the Nazi-Soviet Pact. A concern about ethnic Ukrainians and Belarusians had been proffered as the reason for the Soviet invasion of Poland, rather than Soviet expansionism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 20, 2014, 04:56:37 PM
Congratulations Doll! :clapping:

 You win the 'Kewpie Doll' award!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 20, 2014, 11:37:26 PM
Good article about how the Kremlin's proposed massive increase to the military budget will likely end up being money down the drain...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-ups-defense-spending-despite-slowdown/509741.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 21, 2014, 12:46:38 AM
Looks like a growing number of Russian men are trying to dodge the military draft so they don't end up being 'accidentally lost' across the border into Ukraine.

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrainian-fighting-causing-some-russians-to-seek-to-avoid-the-draft/

So much for the united front of patriotism back home in Mother Russia...
Have these draft dodgers no shame at all?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 21, 2014, 12:56:05 AM
' Better fled than dead?'  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 21, 2014, 01:07:59 AM
Looks like a growing number of Russian men are trying to dodge the military draft so they don't end up being 'accidentally lost' across the border into Ukraine.

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrainian-fighting-causing-some-russians-to-seek-to-avoid-the-draft/

So much for the united front of patriotism back home in Mother Russia...
Have these draft dodgers no shame at all?

Supposedly Russians are the big brothers and Ukrainians the little brothers; so those who refuse to fight in Ukraine against their Slavic brothers should actually be proud of their actions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 21, 2014, 03:01:36 PM
Another bite on the bum for the little guy...

U.S. to scrap trade deal on Russian steel duties


..."(Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Commerce will terminate a 15-year-old deal sheltering Russian flat-rolled steel producers from high import duties, it said in a letter to Russian authorities.

In the letter published on Monday, the United States gave Russia 60 days notice of the termination and said anti-dumping duties would then apply.

The so-called suspension agreement has sheltered Russian steelmakers from anti-dumping duties as high as 184.56 percent on hot-rolled, flat-rolled, carbon quality steel, instead setting a cap on imports and a minimum price"...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/21/us-usa-trade-steel-idUSKCN0IA1VW20141021

First world countries oughta be going through their books making sure that any of these sweetheart trade deals made to assist Russia way back when it was a civilized country are terminated.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 21, 2014, 03:12:31 PM

First world countries oughta be going through their books making sure that any of these sweetheart trade deals made to assist Russia way back when it was a civilized country are terminated.

Brass


And it's only going to get worse... :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 21, 2014, 08:04:24 PM
Lord, Europe lives on Russian gas, they are not idiots.

I agree with you except I do this k they are idiots.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 22, 2014, 10:09:12 AM
Russian stocks retreat:


http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-10-22/russia-stocks-gain-as-norilsk-advance-beats-steelmakers-decline
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 23, 2014, 04:10:29 PM
Russian officials tone down their rhetoric in the wake of the effects of the sanctions.  Perhaps Doll is wrong; Russians don't want to eat dirt after all!   :devil:


http://news.yahoo.com/russia-tones-down-rhetoric-economy-121500695.html?pt=BureoF3GVB
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 23, 2014, 05:22:33 PM
If they mix it with borsht it'll thin down to a tasty mud.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 23, 2014, 09:24:57 PM
Meanwhile Oil prices slip lower just like the ruble..  :clapping:  Win Win!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/22/russia-oil/17716263/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 23, 2014, 09:52:07 PM
Meanwhile Oil prices slip lower just like the ruble..  :clapping:  Win Win!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/22/russia-oil/17716263/

An interesting excerpt....

"German Gref, the chief of Russia's largest bank, Sberbank, went further when he pointed to ignorance of the laws of economic development as the cause of the Soviet Union's collapse. He further lashed out at the economy's dependence on oil and the government's repressive measures, saying at the forum, "You cannot motivate people through the Gulag."

In spite of additional revenues to the Russian budget due to the ruble's devaluation, mounting economic woes are taking their toll on average citizens and small businesses.

Consumer prices have risen by up to 28% for some goods since last year, Golovtsov, of UralSib, says, but salaries and pensions have not kept up. Retail turnover for electronics, cars and other goods has contracted because people have less money to spend due to inflation.

Falling consumer demand, in turn, is hurting small businesses. According to recent data from Cushman & Wakefield cited by Russia's RBC agency, at least 18 properties on Moscow's central Tverskaya Street that used to house shops and restaurants now stand empty.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 23, 2014, 10:42:55 PM
The new government in DNR and the LNR are hoping that 'Mother Russia" will step up and help then financially to rebuild their new republics..  LMAO just like Krym is waiting for their new bug ruble pensions.

 Keep waiting in the line.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 24, 2014, 08:53:34 AM
Nobody wants Russian assets except for maybe professional contrarian investors:


 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-24/ruble-extends-drop-as-bank-of-russia-raises-band-amid-s-p-woes.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 24, 2014, 11:53:46 AM
Nobody wants Russian assets except for maybe professional contrarian investors:


 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-24/ruble-extends-drop-as-bank-of-russia-raises-band-amid-s-p-woes.html

Professional contrarian investors plus our esteemed RWD member Doll!


Anyone can keep dollars, I can buy anything there. Now it is a very good time for buying real estate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 26, 2014, 08:10:22 PM
Finance Minister: Russia Needs Backup Budget For Worst-Case Scenario
By Delphine d'Amora Oct. 24 2014 15:48

Russia must create a contingency budget to counter the threat that Western sanctions, economic stagnation and low oil prices will dash the country's hopes of restoring growth in the near term, Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said Friday.

“A budget cannot constantly have expenses that were drafted in a different economic reality. We must always have another version in case times like these continue,” Siluanov said in a speech to Russia's lower house of parliament, the State Duma, news agency RIA Novosti reported.

The latest budget for 2015-17, which faced its first reading in the State Duma on Friday, is based on the optimistic forecast that sanctions will ease and oil prices next year will average $100 per barrel. The budget predicts GDP growth of 1.2 percent next year, 2.3 percent next year and 3 percent in 2016.

This scenario looks increasingly far-fetched: Economic growth has crashed in 2014, with a recent World Bank forecast predicting growth of 0.5 for this year, 0.3 percent next year and 0.4 percent in 2016. Western sanctions on Moscow over its actions in Ukraine show no sign of letting up and the price of Brent crude oil — the global benchmark — was at $86 per barrel on Friday amid a global supply glut that will likely keep prices depressed in the short term.

Siluanov has criticized the budget before. At an investment summit late last month he called the budget's forecast “optimistic” and said Russia “will have to try very hard to ensure the planned growth rates,” Reuters reported.

Experts polled by The Moscow Times noted previously that the 2015-17 budget is crippled by new expenses and past promises that are now too exorbitant to fulfill, including the cost of supporting Crimea — which Russia annexed from Ukraine in March — and the state's massive $700 billion rearmament program.

Lower budget revenues led to a controversial decision earlier this year to use contributions to privately managed pension funds to fill gaps in the state budget for the second year in a row. The move was heavily criticized by economists, who said that it will both increase the state's future spending obligations and deprive nascent markets of strong institutional investors.

Siluanov on Friday also asked Russian lawmakers for permission to use, if necessary, up to 500 billion rubles ($12 billion) from the government's Reserve Fund, an oil-revenue-funded piggy bank, to fulfill spending obligations next year.

“We created [the fund] for this, and there are now more than 3 trillion rubles [$72 billion] in the Reserve Fund,” RIA Novosti quoted Siluanov as saying.

At the same time, the minister warned that the fund is “not infinite” and urged lawmakers to optimize government programs and bring state spending in line with the budget's limitations. Finance Minister: Russia Needs Backup Budget For Worst-Case Scenario | Business | The Moscow Times
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 26, 2014, 10:21:52 PM
More of Russia's brightest entrepreneurs leaving the country for greener pastures.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-10-26/russia-brain-drain-saps-talent-as-sanctions-hit-financing#p1

In a way Russia is facing the perfect storm; growing brain drain, WM taking away attractive RW for wives, and the civil opposition fleeing into exile.

Soon there may only be the dumb, the ugly and the loyal left in the country...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 26, 2014, 10:30:41 PM
More of Russia's brightest entrepreneurs leaving the country for greener pastures.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-10-26/russia-brain-drain-saps-talent-as-sanctions-hit-financing#p1

In a way Russia is facing the perfect storm; growing brain drain, WM taking away attractive RW for wives, and the civil opposition fleeing into exile.

Soon there may only be the dumb, the ugly and the loyal left in the country...

And with the declining population due to early deaths and low birth rates, Huilotin  will be getting lonely.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 26, 2014, 10:32:56 PM
And with the declining population due to early deaths and low birth rates, Huilotin  will be getting lonely.

Nah.  He's going to have plenty of company from his new "allies" the Chinese. 


 :shock:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 26, 2014, 11:19:59 PM
China has the largest slave labor population in the world based on Stalin's camps.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 27, 2014, 12:42:56 AM
The regime wants to have sanctions lifted but don't want to loose face asking for it.
Now Doll's analogy about how Russians would 'rather eat dirt and be proud' totally makes sense now...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-is-trying-to-end-sanctions-and-save-face/510066.html

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on October 27, 2014, 07:01:53 AM
The regime wants to have sanctions lifted but don't want to loose face asking for it.
Now Doll's analogy about how Russians would 'rather eat dirt and be proud' totally makes sense now...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-is-trying-to-end-sanctions-and-save-face/510066.html


The sanctions in combination with $85/bbl Brent oil evidently are hurting Russia's economy.


I assert the decline in oil prices is the major factor, and oil prices will not rise in the near future.   The sanctions exacerbate an already worsening economy.   

At the beginning of the year, Putin may have been singing the Rolling Stones' song:

               Time is on my side, yes it is
               Now you always say
               That you want to be free
               But you'll come running back (said you would baby)
               You'll come running back (I said so many times before)
               You'll come running back to me

Yet the clock is also working against Putin. 


Tick...tock...tick...tick...tock...tick...tock

Russians will not suffer as much as Ukrainians; however, life will not be a walk in the park.   There is so much on the table for discussion and trading if the parties would turn to diplomacy.  Ukraine needs gas....Russia needs gas revenue in a buyer's market....Crimea needs logistics from Ukraine....the ceasefire needs to continue....

For sure there was never a need to escalate the military conflict.


Tick...tock...tick...tick...tock...tick...tock

 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 27, 2014, 10:50:12 AM
Oil Just Slipped below $80 USD per Barrel

 Oil prices were plummeting again on Monday, slipping below US$80 dollars per barrel as worries mount about too much oil finding too few buyers over the next several months or longer.

Monday’s sell-off was triggered by fresh estimates from a big Wall Street bank suggesting oil prices will continue their free fall into winter, landing eventually in the mid-$70 range through the first half of next year.

Wall Street heavyweight Goldman Sachs cut its price estimate on WTI, or Western Texas Intermediate oil, to $75/barrel from $90 through mid-2015 on Monday while making a similarly downbeat revision to its expectations for Brent crude.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1637465/oil-just-slipped-below-80-and-its-expected-to-fall-further/

 tick tock tick tock  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 27, 2014, 12:29:19 PM

 Oil prices were plummeting again on Monday, slipping below US$80 dollars per barrel as worries mount about too much oil finding too few buyers over the next several months or longer.


Oh dear! That doesn't look promising for the Russian state budget.
Looks like Putin's military will have to put up with using Soviet-era equipment for just a wee bit longer!  :devilish:

Fireworks and national holiday in Ukraine, the Baltics and Poland when this day finally comes?
http://www.inquisitr.com/1562615/does-vladimir-putin-have-cancer/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 27, 2014, 03:42:04 PM
Oil Just Slipped below $80 USD per Barrel

 Oil prices were plummeting again on Monday, slipping below US$80 dollars per barrel as worries mount about too much oil finding too few buyers over the next several months or longer.

Monday’s sell-off was triggered by fresh estimates from a big Wall Street bank suggesting oil prices will continue their free fall into winter, landing eventually in the mid-$70 range through the first half of next year.

Wall Street heavyweight Goldman Sachs cut its price estimate on WTI, or Western Texas Intermediate oil, to $75/barrel from $90 through mid-2015 on Monday while making a similarly downbeat revision to its expectations for Brent crude.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1637465/oil-just-slipped-below-80-and-its-expected-to-fall-further/

 tick tock tick tock  :clapping:

This is the most effective thing we have done.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 27, 2014, 04:07:38 PM
Once again... Who is this "we" that you keep referring to?  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 27, 2014, 07:11:44 PM
Once again... Who is this "we" that you keep referring to?  :rolleyes:

Not you
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 27, 2014, 11:03:57 PM
More bad news for Russia

Ruble Rally Short-Lived as Historic Falls Resume

Modest gains for Russia's beleaguered currency were rapidly reversed Monday as the ruble dropped to new record lows amid speculation that the Central Bank might abandon its policy of spending foreign reserves to slow the currency's decline.

The ruble dropped 34 kopeks against the U.S. dollar Monday, touching a bottom of 42.28 in the early evening in Moscow. The currency has lost more than 25 percent of its value against the greenback this year, and over 16 percent in the last three months alone.

A small bounce for the ruble following Standard & Poor's decision last week not to downgrade Russia's sovereign debt rating to junk status were quickly erased despite the monthly tax period when Russian companies are obliged to convert foreign currency into rubles.

"If ever the omens were right for a ruble recovery today was the day," said Tom Levinson, chief currency strategist at Sberbank CIB. "The fact that it has fallen very sharply is telling."

Expectations have been growing that the Russian Central Bank may scale back its support for the ruble, on which it has spent over $20 billion defending this month alone.

"The Central Bank is currently falling foul of a circular argument: It is intervening to smooth ruble losses but at the same time burning through reserves gives the market a reason to sell," Levinson said in written comments.

The regulator currently uses a 9-ruble-wide trading corridor as a guide for slowing the ruble's decline, but has said repeatedly it will implement a free floating currency in 2015. Foreign reserves are committed by the Central Bank when the ruble exceeds the corridor's limits, and for every $350 million spent the corridor is shifted by 5 kopeks.

"Despite its current weakness the ruble is still expensive and does not reflect the recent fall in oil prices and obligation to repay roughly $100bn of external debt by the private sector in 2015," said Alexei Pogorelov, chief economist at Credit Suisse in Moscow.

Squeezed out of U.S. and European Union capital markets after Western sanctions on Moscow, experts predict that Russian companies will struggle to refinance debts over the next eighteen months in a slow-motion credit crunch.

The Central Bank could hike interest rates and abandon its intervention mechanism, which would be a "big surprise" for the market, Credit Suisse said in a research note Monday.

The Central Bank is due to meet for its monthly policy meeting Friday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said last week that Russia would not "unthinkingly burn through its [foreign currency] reserves."

Other pressures on the ruble Monday included Ukrainian parliamentary elections results in which pro-Western parties recorded a strong showing, prompting fears of a further deterioration in relations between Kiev and Moscow.

Oil prices, which have been volatile in recent weeks, dropped sharply Monday. United States crude oil prices fell below $80 a barrel for the first time in 28 months, while the Brent oil global benchmark sank to under $85 a barrel, approaching four year lows recorded earlier in October.

The Russian Central Bank confirmed Monday that it will offer $3.5 billion in foreign currency auctions on Oct. 29 and Oct. 30 in a bid to ease the demand for dollars.

The ruble's steady slide this year amid a falling oil price and tensions over Ukraine has so far failed to produce any sign of panic among Russian households, but a survey published Monday indicated there was rising concern over the issue.

The currency's dynamic is now worrying 45 percent of Russians, compared with 26 percent of the population 16 months earlier, according the independent pollster Levada Center. The survey had a 3.4 percent margin of error.

And there are few indications that an end to the ruble's weakness is in sight.

Without any serious oil price fluctuations, the Russian currency should find equilibrium between 43 and 45 rubles to the dollar, according to Credit Suisse estimates.

"Forty-two rubles against the dollar has already been achieved, and the 45 against the dollar level is now in the market's sights," Igor Zelentsov, a senior trader at Globex Bank, said in a note Monday.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/510147.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 28, 2014, 02:12:23 AM
The regime wants to have sanctions lifted but don't want to loose face asking for it.
Now Doll's analogy about how Russians would 'rather eat dirt and be proud' totally makes sense now...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-is-trying-to-end-sanctions-and-save-face/510066.html

excerpt
"Both strategies create a "discourse trap" for Moscow. Success depends on the West buying into Russia's "victimhood narrative." A big if."


Poor Russia the "victim" of the West yet again.  Would you like some salt and pepper with that dirt, Doll?   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 28, 2014, 02:38:19 AM
This one is bad news for freedom of the press in Russia, which of course means good news for Putin.

Putin loyalists poised to grab newspaper as Foreign Owners Ousted

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/kremlin-closes-in-on-russia-s-last-foreign-owned-newspaper/509584.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 28, 2014, 02:55:10 AM
Ukraine uncovers plot to create peoples republic of Odessa:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/ukraine-says-it-uncovered-plot-to-create-people-s-republic-in-odessa/510177.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 28, 2014, 03:23:52 AM
Sometimes when reality becomes too dire, sticking one's head in the sand remains the only option!

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-passes-draft-budget-based-on-an-alternative-economic-reality-2014-10
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 28, 2014, 10:17:33 AM
The regime wants to have sanctions lifted but don't want to loose face asking for it.
Now Doll's analogy about how Russians would 'rather eat dirt and be proud' totally makes sense now...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-is-trying-to-end-sanctions-and-save-face/510066.html
Correct. Russians never yield.
Here the quote of your link
Quote
One is to evade engagement on Western roadmaps for sanction relief in exchange for Russia's full implementation of the Minsk Protocol in eastern Ukraine. Western terms, made public by U.S. and European Union officials, include complete withdrawal of Russian forces from eastern Ukraine, restoration of Ukraine's sovereignty and control over its border.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov made clear that Russia would not get into such horse-trading and would not ask for sanction relief, fearing this could be interpreted as a sign of Putin's vulnerability.

Nor will Moscow re-engage the West on important issues without a clear commitment to lift sanctions. In Paris last week, Lavrov brushed off U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry's overtures for new talks on nuclear arms control and even later disavowed his private promise to Kerry to resume intelligence-sharing on the Islamic State. Lavrov called Kerry's cherry-picking approach "consumerist," implying that without sanction relief, re-engagement would be Russia's unilateral concession to Washington.

The second strategy is to bamboozle the West with talk about "the new world order" and the need for a new "consensus of responsible powers." By elevating the discussion to a geopolitical level, Moscow seeks to create a framework that would allow it to claim a "strategic win" that justified "small concessions" on Ukraine to get sanctions lifted. This was Putin's offer at the Valdai conference, his bluster masking a desperation to save face.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 28, 2014, 11:07:18 AM
Sometimes when reality becomes too dire, sticking one's head in the sand remains the only option!

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-passes-draft-budget-based-on-an-alternative-economic-reality-2014-10


 Good Catch SleepyCat!  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 28, 2014, 11:14:20 AM
Sleepy, the quoted BS is written by Krylov

 
Quote
ЗЛОЙ ГЕНИЙ ЛЕВОГО КРЫЛА КПРФ

Posted on Декабрь 21, 2013   by Межпартийная Группа Октябрь-большевики    
 

Сегодня мы поведём речь о достаточно известном, во всяком случае в определённых кругах, и уважаемом деятеле. Причём, влияние его, особенно среди левых, когда-либо имевших отношение к КПРФ, — а ныне выходцев из КПРФ немало в «Левом фронте», «Коммунисты России» вообще состоят из них почти целиком, некоторая часть бывших членов КПРФ в Москве и других регионах присоединилась к «РОТ Фронту», и это не говоря о Межрегиональном объединении коммунистов, — столь велико, что его не только числят одним из вождей левого (марксистского) крыла КПРФ (и, пожалуй, виднейшим теоретиком этого крыла), но и записывают во «враги народа» тех, кто осмеливается этого деятеля критиковать.

 

Речь — об Александре Фролове. Фролов Александр Константинович — советский и российский журналист, партийный деятель, один из основателей КПРФ, член редколлегии газеты «Советская Россия«; в советские годы трудился в журнале «Коммунист» под руководством Р.И.Косолапова, в дальнейшем — депутат «Государственной думы РФ» первого созыва (1993 — 1995 годы), член Президиума ЦК КПРФ до 2008 года, член ЦК КПРФ до 2013 года (не избран в ЦК на XV партийном съезде); по собственным словам — автор по меньшей мере одной из книг, якобы принадлежащих перу Зюганова. Выпускник Философского факультета МГУ им. М.В.Ломоносова, во время учёбы специализировался по вопросам языкознания: «Курсовую я написал про Хомского. Получил пять. Дипломную- тоже про него Еще раз пять и рекомендацию в аспирантуру. Кадндидтскую написал тоже про генеративную грамматику того же Хомского«.

Статьи Фролова регулярно размещаются на ресурсах коммунистов, в последние годы подошедших к решению порвать с КПРФ (один из примеров: http://com-stol.ru/?p=12112, — с сайта московского отделения «Межрегионального объединения коммунистов«; другой пример: http://www.com-piter.ru/7983.html, — с сайта ленинградского отделения той же организации). Нашим читателям Александр Константинович тоже уже знаком, — его творчества мы касались, разбирая вопрос о манипуляции сознанием коммунистов.

 
http://octbol.wordpress.com/2013/12/21/p94/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 28, 2014, 11:47:07 AM
I think to appear fair and balanced, a new thread titled 'More Good News for Russia should be started for which Doll can link articles which are optimistic about the direction of the Russian economy. Then we can all discuss whether these articles have any merits or are complete BS.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 28, 2014, 03:13:18 PM
Complete BS.  Russia is headed for a repeat of 1998.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 28, 2014, 03:37:17 PM
Complete BS.  Russia is headed for a repeat of 1998.

 Or possibly worse..

 It's time to change horses in the middle of the stream. This one is dying.  :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 29, 2014, 02:14:48 AM




Losses of Russian banks in Ukraine reach $12.5 bln


KYIV, October 29 /Ukrinform/. Estimates of losses from the realization of direct and indirect risks of Russian banks in Ukraine are growing, ITAR-TASS has reported, citing Kommersant.
According to the newspaper, major banks reported a new scale of problems at the government level, a conservative estimate - $25 billion, and a realistic estimate - $12.5 billion.
"Realistic" losses could be compensated for through the conversion of state support received by the banks in the last crisis, but in this case Russian banks will have no capital reserves to increase lending, reads the report.
Estimates of the total size of losses of Russian banks in Ukraine were given at a closed meeting held last Monday in the office of Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev with the participation of major banks, the newspaper reported, citing several sources in the banking market.
ap
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 29, 2014, 02:22:11 AM
Good News For The Rest Of The World?

Putin Has Cancer. He Has Three Years Left - US Media

28.10.2014 16:58
News outlets from Belarus to Poland have reported for months that the Russian strongman has cancer of the spinal cord. But the author of the article, Richard Johnson, says it's pancreatic cancer, one of the most lethal forms of the disease, Censor.NET reports.

As put by the author, Putin has three years to live and wants to leave a legacy of expanding the Russian borders just like Peter the Great or Stalin. This is why he is so in hurry with invading Ukraine, Richard Johnson wrote.


According to PageSix, Putin is allegedly being treated by an elderly doctor from the old East Germany whom Putin met decades ago while serving in Dresden for the KGB. "The doctor has been trying various treatments including steroid shots, which would explain Putin's puffy appearance.

"The physician, who is 84 years old, quit recently, confiding that he hated coming to Russia and was always mistreated by Putin's security detail."



Johnson cites Сrispin Black, the British army veteran who reports on terrorism and intelligence, that Putin's pardon and release of his former crony Mikhail Khodorkovsky, after 10 years in prison, was an ominous sign.

"Some have suggested [Putin] is clearing his conscience," Black wrote.

Source — en.censor.net.ua
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 29, 2014, 06:32:32 AM
Good News For The Rest Of The World?

Putin Has Cancer. He Has Three Years Left - US Media


If there is a grain of truth to this, then... :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Will his corpse be embalmed and put on display like that of his idols Lenin and Stalin?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 29, 2014, 06:54:54 AM
Split in Russian: clans around Putin began to fight

Раскол в России: кланы в окружении Путина начали борьбу - Bloomberg
Odessa Daily
29 октября 2014 в 09:45 РекламаСкачать журнал STYLE
Борьба в ближайшем окружении Президента Российской Федерации Владимира Путина замедляет принятие решений
Раскол в России: кланы в окружении Путина начали борьбу - Bloomberg
Об этом со ссылкой на источники, близкие к Путину, пишет американское агентство Bloomberg.

В то время, как сам президент сосредоточен на внешней политике, соперничающие группы борются за влияние и заняты внутренними проблемами, рассказали агентству анонимные источники.

Одна группа, в центре которой премьер-министр Дмитрий Медведев, обеспокоена усилением отчуждения России от мировой финансовой системы. Другая, которая включает в себя руководителей государственных компаний, таких как Игорь Сечин (директор компании «Роснефть»), и ветеранов спецслужб, выступает за усиление государственного контроля над российской экономикой.

«Правящая элита России будет биться в конвульсиях, тогда как экономика кренится в сторону рецессии, рубль колеблется вблизи рекордно низкого уровня, а конфликт в Украине толкает страну еще глубже в противостояние с США и их союзниками. С нефтью, крупнейшей статьей российского экспорта, подешевевшей до 27-месячного минимума, и банками, которые все чаще обращаются к государству за финансированием, остается все меньше денег в обращении», – пишет Bloomberg.

В связи с падением цен на нефть рубль продолжает обесцениваться. Впрочем, как считают аналитики издания Financial Times, операции Центробанка смогут удержать страну на сносном уровне не дольше, чем до конца года.
http://odessa-daily.com.ua/news/raskol-v-rossii-klany-v-okruzhenii-putina-nachali-borbu-bloomberg-id70854.html


Fighting in the entourage of the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin slows decision-making

Split in Russian: clans around Putin began to fight - Bloomberg
This is with reference to the sources close to Putin, says US agency Bloomberg. At that time, as the president is focused on foreign policy, rival groups vie for influence and beset by internal problems, told the agency anonymous sources. One group, the center of which the Prime -Minister Dmitry Medvedev, Russia is concerned about growing alienation from the global financial system. Other, which includes the heads of state-owned companies, such as Igor Sechin (director of "Rosneft"), and veterans of special services, supports the strengthening of state control over the Russian economy. "The ruling elite of Russia will convulse, while the economy lurches toward recession, the ruble fluctuates near record lows, and the conflict in Ukraine is pushing the country deeper into a confrontation with the US and its allies. With oil, the largest item of Russian exports, depreciating to 27-month low, and banks that are increasingly turning to the state for funding, there is less money in circulation "- writes Bloomberg. Due to the fall in oil prices ruble continues to depreciate. However, analysts say the edition Financial Times, the operation of the Central Bank will be able to keep the country tolerably not longer than until the end of the year.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 29, 2014, 06:58:19 AM
While Ukraine is trying to negotiate visa-free travel with the EU, Russia on the other hand is discussing a visa-free regime with North Korea!

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-and-north-korea-discuss-visa-free-regime/510222.html

Talking about having to scrape the bottom of the barrel...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 29, 2014, 09:03:06 AM
I think to appear fair and balanced, a new thread titled 'More Good News for Russia should be started for which Doll can link articles which are optimistic about the direction of the Russian economy. Then we can all discuss whether these articles have any merits or are complete BS.
It would be just waste if time. There IS such a thread on Russian forum. You go and read it.
Your quote was a complete BS though.
I am old enough to remember at LEAST 6 hard periods in Russia (USSR). We survived and we will now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 29, 2014, 09:32:39 AM
It would be just waste if time. There IS such a thread on Russian forum. You go and read it.
Your quote was a complete BS though.
I am old enough to remember at LEAST 6 hard periods in Russia (USSR). We survived and we will now.

 WAs the first hard period called the Bolshevik Revolution??   :popcorn:   (joke)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 29, 2014, 12:01:33 PM
Ruble Weakens to Record on Concern Russia to Expedite Free Float
 

By Vladimir Kuznetsov  Oct 28, 2014 7:45 AM GMT-0800   

 

The ruble weakened to a record for the fifth day on concern Russia will quicken its move to a free float after more than $20 billion of interventions this month failed to halt the depreciation.

The currency slid 0.6 percent to 47.7112 against the central bank’s target dollar-euro basket by 6 p.m. in Moscow, bringing this year’s decline to 19 percent .  :clapping:
Ten-year government bond yields approached five-year highs as the Finance Ministry said it was scrapping its third straight debt auction.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-28/ruble-weakens-to-record-on-concern-russia-to-expedite-free-float.html?cmpid=yhoo

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 29, 2014, 12:57:02 PM
It would be just waste if time. There IS such a thread on Russian forum. You go and read it.
Your quote was a complete BS though.
I am old enough to remember at LEAST 6 hard periods in Russia (USSR). We survived and we will now.

You mean you are old enough to remember 6 self-contrived hard periods in Russia and the Soviet Union?  Only Russia (and the former Soviet Union) takes being a rotten apple member of the international community to such lows while simultaneously blaming the international community for their own self-contrived suffering.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 29, 2014, 01:57:12 PM
Its fun to pick on Doll until you realize that 140 million people just like her have nukes and sit on the UN security council.

Fun with Lemmings
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 29, 2014, 02:47:40 PM
Tick Tock
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on October 29, 2014, 03:37:20 PM
We survived and we will now.
Doll, I've stayed out of these stupid debates for the most part as, you are correct, they are fruitless. There are around about 400 odd pages of accusation and counter accusation on a few well frequented forums at the moment and all of it could have been summed up like this - If a Russian had said, I don't like Americas current foreign policy, and a Westerner had said, I don't like Russias current foreign policy - we would be at the same place we are now. 
 
Of course Russia will survive and it is only the crackpots who wish otherwise but what won't survive in the longer term is Putin or the current policies because the cold hard reality is Russia can't afford either. Putinism and current policies might go on for as much as another 10 or 20 years and then it will be back to the future. History tells us all that, especially those of you who have lived through those "hard periods".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 29, 2014, 06:07:16 PM
And yet, here we all are . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 29, 2014, 06:34:46 PM
Who would have thought the Kremlin is that touchy regarding rumours of the president's health.
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-spokesman-tells-press-shut-trap-cancer-rumours-142456182.html

In a normal country rumours about terminal illness of its leader typically send its stock market lower; but in the case of Russia rumours about Putin's imminent demise could actually give its stock market a big boost!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on October 29, 2014, 09:06:58 PM
Russia has chosen its own isolation, by behaving in a way that leads to mistrust. So if there are now hard times in Russia because the West doesn't want to do business with Russia, it is because Russia has been lying about its involvement in Ukraine. It is also because Russia is acting like Ukraine is their possession. Putin has no intention of honoring the political choices that the majority of Ukrainians have made. If the leader of a powerful country acts like a bully, he is the one to blame for hard economic times. I also blame the people who support him. What qualities are we suppose to like about him? Are we suppose to like the way he has encouraged brother to fight against brother in Ukraine? Are we supposed to like his paranoia about NATO? Are we supposed to like the way he crushes free speech?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 29, 2014, 09:41:01 PM
Beware of an old man in a hurry
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 30, 2014, 12:08:45 AM
Russia has chosen its own isolation, by behaving in a way that leads to mistrust. So if there are now hard times in Russia because the West doesn't want to do business with Russia, it is because Russia has been lying about its involvement in Ukraine. It is also because Russia is acting like Ukraine is their possession. Putin has no intention of honoring the political choices that the majority of Ukrainians have made. If the leader of a powerful country acts like a bully, he is the one to blame for hard economic times. I also blame the people who support him. What qualities are we suppose to like about him? Are we suppose to like the way he has encouraged brother to fight against brother in Ukraine? Are we supposed to like his paranoia about NATO? Are we supposed to like the way he crushes free speech?

+100
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 30, 2014, 10:58:51 AM
Activist for soldiers rights jailed:


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/soldiers-rights-activist-jailed-russia-26293213
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 30, 2014, 11:08:05 AM
Ukrainian female pilot held in Russian psychiatric unit runs for office back in Ukraine:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11187920/Ukraine-war-hero-fights-election-from-Russian-psychiatric-ward.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 30, 2014, 12:28:06 PM
Ruble Weakens to Record on Concern Russia to Expedite Free Float
 

By Vladimir Kuznetsov  Oct 28, 2014 7:45 AM GMT-0800   

 

The ruble weakened to a record for the fifth day on concern Russia will quicken its move to a free float after more than $20 billion of interventions this month failed to halt the depreciation.

The currency slid 0.6 percent to 47.7112 against the central bank’s target dollar-euro basket by 6 p.m. in Moscow, bringing this year’s decline to 19 percent .  :clapping:
Ten-year government bond yields approached five-year highs as the Finance Ministry said it was scrapping its third straight debt auction.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-28/ruble-weakens-to-record-on-concern-russia-to-expedite-free-float.html?cmpid=yhoo
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 30, 2014, 12:30:08 PM
Tick Tock
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 30, 2014, 04:10:14 PM
Groundhog Day in Moscow as Russia seizes another privatized oil company

by Geoffrey Smith  October 30, 2014, 12:30 PM EDT


Echoes of Yukos affair as a lucrative oil company is seized on a point of law that had been ignored for 10 years.

A Russian court ruled to seize the shares of Bashneft, one of the country?s largest oil companies, effectively renationalizing it and overturning an allegedly fraudulent privatization whose results had stood for over 10 years.

The case has sent shivers through Russia?s business community, a fresh reminder that the ownership of the country?s biggest industrial assets still isn?t safe, nearly two decades after they were sold in frequently flawed or corrupt privatizations.

The case has been compared to the nationalization of Yukos in 2004 over alleged tax evasion and fraud by its owner, Mkihail Khodorkovsky. The politically ambitious Khodorkovsky, who was Russia?s richest man at the time, was subsequently jailed for 10 years, before being given a conditional release at the end of last year.

His company, meanwhile, was sold off, indirectly, to the then state-owned company OAO Rosneft for a song. Rosneft is now chaired by Igor Sechin, who had directed the campaign against Khodorkovsky from his position as deputy chief of staff at the Kremlin.

Bashneft is majority-owned by the London-listed conglomerate OAO AFK Sistema, whose billionaire head Vladimir Evtushenkov is currently under house arrest on charges of money laundering. He denies the charges and has said he will contest them.

Sistema had built a controlling stake in Bashneft with two acquisitions in 2005 and 2009. For $2.5 billion, it bought Bashneft and other energy companies with lucrative local monopolies from vehicles controlled by Ural Rakhimov, the son of the then-president of Bashkortostan, the company?s home region.

Rosneft says it?s not interested in buying Bashneft, but it would be an attractive source of cash for a company in Rosneft?s position. Rosneft is heavily indebted and is shut out of western markets by western sanctions. It has to repay $14 billion by February. Last week, it asked the Finance Ministry for $50 billion from Russia?s National Welfare Fund to help it with its debt repayments, but was rebuffed.

Although perceived as one of the most corrupt regions in the country, Rakhimov senior had been tolerated by President Vladimir Putin for years, even after scrapping elections for regional leaders and making them accountable only to him. Rakhimov ultimately resigned early from his third term in 2010.

Prosecutors allege that the sale of the state?s interest in Bashneft to Rakhimov junior?s companies had been illegal, a view endorsed ahead of the trial in a recent interview by a Rosneft spokesman.

The privatization had, however, received all the necessary state approvals at the time. Sistema had in turn also received the approval of federal regulators when buying the company.

Paradoxically, Sistema?s depositary receipts rose 14% in London on the news, mainly because the court didn?t immediately confiscate some $4.5 billion in dividends that Bashneft and the Bashkir energy companies had paid Sistema since 2009. They?re still down 74% year-to-date.

However, the news agency Interfax quoted an official as saying that the return of illegally seized assets ?will go progressively and in stages.?

The case has been seen in Moscow as another sign of the ascendancy of policy ?hawks? such as Sechin over more liberal figures such as Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev. Medvedev was quoted by ITAR-TASS as saying that: ?Entrepreneurs definitely should not live in an atmosphere of fear?Businessmen of good faith must be under the protection of the law, they have to be protected and encouraged as much as possible.?

Sistema, whose biggest other asset is a stake in NYSE-listed mobile carrier OAO Mobile TeleSystems ( MBT 5.95% )  , said Thursday its individual units continue to operate as normal, but said the ?ongoing litigation could have a significant negative impact? on its own financial condition and obligations.

It has a month to appeal the ruling.

http://fortune.com/2014/10/30/groundhog-day-in-moscow-as-russia-seizes-another-privatized-oil-company/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 30, 2014, 04:34:06 PM
The cancer is eating itself. Soon it may vanish.  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on October 30, 2014, 04:58:04 PM
More on the Bashneft/Sistema story:

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-court-orders-seizure-oligarchs-oil-stake-131057014.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 31, 2014, 08:20:43 AM
The ruble plunged a day after posting its biggest gain since at least 2003 as Russia refrained from adopting the more aggressive foreign-exchange policy that traders had anticipated following this year’s 20 percent rout.

The currency slid 2.8 percent to 47.8130 versus the central bank’s dollar-euro basket at 4:35 p.m. in Moscow and is on course for a 7.4 percent drop this month, the most since May 2012. The ruble surged yesterday as banks including Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Commerzbank AG expected a shift away from the fixed trading-band policy that allows traders to profit from keeping short positions and betting on further depreciation.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-31/ruble-set-for-worst-month-in-2-years-before-russia-rate-decision.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on October 31, 2014, 10:20:25 AM
Kordakovsky was a very, very bad man.  I wonder how jail changed him if at all.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on October 31, 2014, 11:04:30 AM
Kordakovsky was a very, very bad man.  I wonder how jail changed him if at all.

???
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 01, 2014, 09:52:10 PM
I would hate to be the guy who drove a snowplow into this airplane:


http://fortune.com/2014/10/21/what-happens-when-you-get-drunk-and-kill-putins-friend-with-your-snowplow/?xid=tab_rss
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 02, 2014, 11:05:52 AM
Russian banks in Ukraine may lose $ 25 billion

Losses from direct and indirect risks of the Russian banks in Ukraine may amount to $ 25 bn, The Komersant says Oct. 29, quoting its banking market sources.

The estimate figured at last Monday's closed session Premier Medvedev held with the representatives of major Russian banks.

According to one source, the total loss may amount to $ 25 bn.

However, another source assumed that a more realistic figure is $ 12.5 bn.

The losses include credits to Russian companies operating in Ukraine and credits to Ukrainian clients, Komersant sources say.
http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/10/29/russian_banks_in_ukraine_may_lose_25_billion_535934
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 02, 2014, 11:56:50 AM
Banking 01.11.2014 Deutsche Welle
Russian central bank ups main lending rate

The Bank of Russia said Friday it was raising its benchmark lending rate to 9.5 percent, with the measure to take effect on November 5. Following a board meeting in the morning, executives confirmed the rate would go up by 150 basis points, bringing the cumulative increase to 400 basis points this year.

The central bank had been under enormous pressure to raise rates to defend a continuously sliding ruble, which had lost about 20 percent against the US dollar since July, not least as a result of Western sanctions against the country over the Kremlin's involvement in the Ukraine conflict.

The bank said it was concerned about inflation reaching 8.4 percent towards the end of October. It added it didn't expect inflation do drop below 8 percent before the end of the first quarter next year.

Short-lived ruble rally

"If external conditions improve, the bank will be ready to start easing monetary policy again," the lender said in a statement.

It noted that economic growth would be close to zero in the fourth quarter, with no significant changes in sight for the first three months of 2015.

Following the announcement of the lending rate hike, the ruble firmed briefly and trimmed losses from earlier in the trading session before falling back into negative territory.
http://www.dw.de/russian-central-ban...ate/a-18032266
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 02, 2014, 01:27:00 PM
Russian banks in Ukraine may lose $ 25 billion

Losses from direct and indirect risks of the Russian banks in Ukraine may amount to $ 25 bn, The Komersant says Oct. 29, quoting its banking market sources.

The estimate figured at last Monday's closed session Premier Medvedev held with the representatives of major Russian banks.

According to one source, the total loss may amount to $ 25 bn.

However, another source assumed that a more realistic figure is $ 12.5 bn.

The losses include credits to Russian companies operating in Ukraine and credits to Ukrainian clients, Komersant sources say.
http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/10/29/russian_banks_in_ukraine_may_lose_25_billion_535934

Fwiw, there are Sberbank branches in Bila Tserkva.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 10:39:58 AM
Germany may propose tougher sanctions against Russia

03.11.2014 | 17:07
Germany may put forward proposals to toughen sanctions against Russia in the wake of Moscow’s declaration that it would recognize Sunday’s elections in the breakaway districts of the Donbas in Ukraine.

German government spokesman Steffen Seibert said in Berlin on Monday that the possibility of lifting sanctions against Russia for its annexation of the Ukrainian territory of Crimea and fueling the insurgency in the Donbas is now off the table.

He said the elections were a breach of the Minsk agreements on ending the Donbas conflict, and Berlin does not understand an official statement from Moscow regarding its recognition of the "voting," organized by the separatists, German broadcaster Deutsche Welle reported.

"If the situation deteriorates, it may be necessary to step up sanctions on Russia," Seibert said.

Earlier, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement saying that Russia respects the choice made by residents of the southeast and is ready to contribute further to the solution of the Ukrainian crisis.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics...-against-russia.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 10:52:04 AM

He said the elections were a breach of the Minsk agreements on ending the Donbas conflict, and Berlin does not understand an official statement from Moscow regarding its recognition of the "voting," organized by the separatists, German broadcaster Deutsche Welle reported.

"If the situation deteriorates, it may be necessary to step up sanctions on Russia," Seibert said.

Earlier, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement saying that Russia respects the choice made by residents of the southeast and is ready to contribute further to the solution of the Ukrainian crisis.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics...-against-russia.html

I'm surprised because it's no small amount of trade which Germany does with Russia.

I think it's fairly easy now to decipher what the Russians really mean when they claim to want to "contribute further to the solution".  What they really mean is that they want to continue to move troops and material into the affected area and go ahead with their plan of a larger invasion to get their land bridge to Crimea.

I just read an article last night which stated that Crimea was going to cost the Russian Federation 150 Billion Dollars all together.  Factoring in the cost of the economic sanctions and cost of the continued war I would say that figure is likely to be low.  When all is said and done I believe it will cost Putin his Presidency. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 11:05:30 AM
I hope that Russia becomes insolvent/bankrupt soon and cannot afford further invasions.

 I read something recently that 'appears' (not 100% sure about it though) that they're dipping into the pensioners fund to sponsor the war effort.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 03, 2014, 11:54:28 AM
I hope that Russia becomes insolvent/bankrupt soon and cannot afford further invasions.



War may be Putin's solution to becoming stronger. Russia nearly lost to Germany in WW2 and emerged a super power. USA also became much stronger after the war. If Russia has available resources and a willing population to churn out weapons wholesale, they can become stronger after a war only if they win it. There's no doubt in my mind Putin wants more real estate. Only thing stopping him is the thought of losing a war. So far the world has shown they won't go any further than sanctions in stopping Putin. Obama is president for a couple more years so the window of the best opportunity will close after that. Putin has some time to decide if he wants his name etched in history books.


I feel sorry for Ukraine president Poroshenko. He reminds me of the coach that takes the job on a losing team. Little chance in winning. Putin will remain a thorn in his side for years to come and Ukraine will continually get stepped on by Russia. The citizens of Ukraine may eventually blame Poroshenko for not getting positive results. Reality is anybody in his shoes have an uphill battle they probably can't win. Will Europe and America pump enough money into Ukraine to make Ukrainian citizens believe they're heading in the right direction? Hard to turn a country's economy around with a lot of infighting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 03, 2014, 12:21:28 PM
Fwiw, there are Sberbank branches in Bila Tserkva.

But--no queue's!!  Characteristic of Russian owned banks across Ukraine. Simply not trusted .
Compare that to Privat everywhere -always crowds
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 03, 2014, 12:34:56 PM
I'm surprised because it's no small amount of trade which Germany does with Russia.

I think it's fairly easy now to decipher what the Russians really mean when they claim to want to "contribute further to the solution".  What they really mean is that they want to continue to move troops and material into the affected area and go ahead with their plan of a larger invasion to get their land bridge to Crimea.

I just read an article last night which stated that Crimea was going to cost the Russian Federation 150 Billion Dollars all together.  Factoring in the cost of the economic sanctions and cost of the continued war I would say that figure is likely to be low.  When all is said and done I believe it will cost Putin his Presidency.

The sanctions and the pressure of sanctions are only in early days.
Some of the nations seriously entwined with Russian money( notably Germany and UK)  were reluctant to go overboard overnight-- but the big picture is clearer now and they have been forced into line-- so look for sanctions being continually ramped up.
Putin's blustering and provocations are designed as a distraction-aimed at stopping the west doing to much to help Ukraine while Russia tidies up it's invasion-then later to claim they were only recognising the will of the people.His hope is that Russia can outlast the west.
Putin is stupid enough-- and deluded to the point of craziness--to keep escalating as it hides the real problems in Russia itself( hides from Russians at least)
The west is not going to charge into an unnecessary war if it can avoid it--and that is exactly what Putin is counting on.  The sanctions will strangle Russia and send it broke- Putin has put Russia on a path to humiliation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 12:41:50 PM
I can appreciate MissA's fruatration with all of us over this.  Many of us have an opinion because we care, but just how valuable or insightful any of those ideas are is pretty much garabage. 

We have family, friends and people we care about over there/here.  But the fact is everyone has family on both sides of the border.  I am biased and I assign blame to the President of Russia, who I think has cancer.  Both sides have Nazis fighting on both sides.  Our US Ambassador says there is no military solution then why is he and his diplomatic team so incompetent at this job of making peace?

Why aren't we talking directly to the Russian people?  In Soviet times, Ruskies would listen to BBC and VOa.  We just cut VOA funding and no one on team Obama the internet President can't use YouTube for anything except raising money.

We can blame Obama all we want but when are we going to own up to the fact compared to challenges to previous generations in facing down tyranny we ain't up to the task?  Or is a civizational gut check too much to ask from such low information voters? Present company including myself
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 03, 2014, 12:44:35 PM


I feel sorry for Ukraine president Poroshenko. He reminds me of the coach that takes the job on a losing team. Little chance in winning.

BB-- you only find out how clever you are when you really have your back to the wall.Anyone can run a business in boom times--managing and surviving when it is not all going your way is what decides how capable you are-- how tough you are.
What you are underestimating is the sheer will of the people of Ukraine-- the huge shift to support a united Ukraine is real-people want it.
Carping on about the negative "could be's" is doing the Ukrainian people a disservice and you are underestimating them  -especially in a time when the young men are being sacrificed  in this battle.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 01:12:42 PM
BB-- you only find out how clever you are when you really have your back to the wall.Anyone can run a business in boom times--managing and surviving when it is not all going your way is what decides how capable you are-- how tough you are.
What you are underestimating is the sheer will of the people of Ukraine-- the huge shift to support a united Ukraine is real-people want it.
Carping on about the negative "could be's" is doing the Ukrainian people a disservice and you are underestimating them  -especially in a time when the young men are being sacrificed  in this battle.

I don't think that is his intention.  The situation in Ukraine is dire and he's being realistic about the overwhelming odds facing Ukraine.  Since the West has done so little in regards to giving them heavy weapons to defend themselves I think he is just making a truthful assessment.  Let's hope he is wrong; and hope that starting tomorrow when the US Congress is Republican some real action is taken in regards to helping Ukraine have the materials they need to defend themselves.  Even Stalin after WWII admitted how important the lend lease program was in helping the Soviets beat the Nazi's.  Now someone who admires Stalin wants to turn back the clock in regards to how the nation of Ukraine is treated. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 03, 2014, 02:05:31 PM
About- creating a Land bridge to Crimea from Russia idea.
This would involve going through Mariupol'.

INSANE.
This city is heavily fortified. The people there are supportive of Ukraine. And yes- they mostly speak Russian there. The battle for Mariupol' will be bloody with lots of losses on both sides. Putin supports this invasion, again, because he likes the idea of New Russia. He wants to recreate the New Soviet Union. Rebel leaders talk about moving their front line as far west as possible. It's impossible to negotiate with crazy people. It's a horrible situation. A show of force is the only language the separatists understand.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 02:10:53 PM
About- creating a Land bridge to Crimea from Russia idea.
This would involve going through Mariupol'.

INSANE.
This city is heavily fortified. The people there are supportive of Ukraine. And yes- they mostly speak Russian there. The battle for Mariupol' will be bloody with lots of losses on both sides. Putin supports this invasion, again, because he likes the idea of New Russia. He wants to recreate the New Soviet Union. Rebel leaders talk about moving their front line as far west as possible. It's impossible to negotiate with crazy people. It's a horrible situation. A show of force is the only language the separatists understand.

Even if Putin does not go through with a full-fledged invasion, there are opinion pieces which say that he has already accomplished what he wanted to accomplish, which is a bankrupt Ukraine which he hopes will eventually come back "home" to mother Russia.  The question is then who will be economically harmed and stopped first -- Russia or Ukraine?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 03, 2014, 02:29:00 PM
Ukraine's economy is smaller and more fragile than Russia's. When Ukraine's economy crashes, they will not turn towards Putin. That's my prediction. Most Ukrainians see him as a mass murderer, and the one responsible for any economic collapse.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 04:57:40 PM
They can go around the city and isolate from land it easily. Cut  water, gas lines and power. There are reports of shelling the city now.

 I also suspect that they want the land bridge to extend to Transnistria. That'll cut Ukraine off from any seaports they have.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 03, 2014, 05:40:03 PM
If they push that far, it's pure idiocy. Everyone loses, including Russia. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 06:20:55 PM
If they push that far, it's pure idiocy. Everyone loses, including Russia.

I would characterize it as sheer lunacy.  Do you expect anything less from a short little Napoleonic egomaniac?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 06:40:39 PM
If they push that far, it's pure idiocy. Everyone loses, including Russia.

And? your point would be? :popcorn:

 There's nothing sane in what Russia has been doing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 06:43:43 PM
Billy's military analysis fails on several fronts.  First, none of his dire predictions have ever come true.  In fact, he ignores Ukrainian reverses or the efforts of the Date nbass Cyborgs who against all odds hold the airport.  Second, the Russian federation in Ukraine has no air support.  Ukraine doesn't exactly dominate the skies given the antiaircraft assets the Russians have in Eastern Ukraine.  Nonetheless we aren't seeing air to air battles and Ukraine's ability to bring its air force to the fight is a keep advantage.  Third, the Russians themselves can't seem to get the job done.  Military expert Dmitry Tymchuk estimates more than 24,000 Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  But they execute a low level of discipline and do not operate under a unified  single command. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 06:52:37 PM
  Military expert Dmitry Tymchuk estimates more than 24,000 Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  But they execute a low level of discipline and do not operate under a unified  single command.

Do you have any links about these numbers? It seems very large compared to other 'guesstimates'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 06:54:01 PM
There aren't any queues in PrivatBank either.  Until there is serious banking reform the best thing to do is to horde dollars under your mattress.

That said, there is a lot economic activity in Ukraine and not all of it is bad.  Inflation and gas prices remain a problem but the tourist economy in Lviv has picked up.

Not that this is scientific, but roads are getting repaired.  People drive mostly foreign cars here.  Advertisements for new cars and apartments are everywhere.

Ukraine's best resource is its people and Generation Maidan is just entering the workforce.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 06:55:52 PM
Do you have any links about these numbers? It seems very large compared to other 'guesstimates'.
http://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=583876065074386&id=100003559926167

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:04:12 PM
Second, the Russian federation in Ukraine has no air support.  Ukraine doesn't exactly dominate the skies given the antiaircraft assets the Russians have in Eastern Ukraine.  Nonetheless we aren't seeing air to air battles and Ukraine's ability to bring its air force to the fight is a keepn advantage.

The Russian Federation in Ukraine has no air support because Putin has not authorized it. He can deny arming the separatists if he doesn't send in Russian aircraft.  He can't do that if he does.  You're being obtuse.  If Putin authorizes a full scale invasion it's going to be fast and furious. 

Your numbers of Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine are also greatly exaggerated.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:14:06 PM
http://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=583876065074386&id=100003559926167

Read that link carefully.  Above you claim that there are approximately 24,000 Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine, and yet the link you provide states that there are approximately 14,000 combined mercenaries and Russian soldiers, and then another 10,0000 to 12,0000 local fighters.

The devil is in the details.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 07:20:08 PM



Ukraine beats Russia in Prosperity Index, ranks 63rd



Ukraine has placed the 63rd in the Prosperity Index published by the British Legatum Institute - five places ahead of neighbor Russia.

Norway tops the index this year, with Switzerland, New Zealand, Denmark and Canada rounding off the top five of the rating.

According to the executive director of the Legatum Institute Sian Hansen, the index reflects the level of a "national success." The authors of the Prosperity Index analysed achievements in the surveyed countries’ economies, business sphere, governance, education, health care system, defence sector, protection of rights and freedoms, and income of the population, reports Radio Liberty.

According to the report, this year Russia saw the biggest fall in its ranking compared to other European countries, dropping to 68th against 61st place last year. Legatum Institute analysts said Russia's actions in the international arena were to blame for the fall, namely - the annexation of Crimea, support for the insurgency in eastern Ukraine, as well as its vetos of UN Security Council resolutions on Syria.

As for Ukraine’s other neighbors; Poland ranked the 31st, Belarus 53rd, and Moldova 89th. The Prosperity Index covers 142 countries.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/society/1004547-ukraine-beats-russia-in-prosperity-index-ranks-63rd.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:23:36 PM


Ukraine beats Russia in Prosperity Index, ranks 63rd



Ukraine has placed the 63rd in the Prosperity Index published by the British Legatum Institute - five places ahead of neighbor Russia.

Norway tops the index this year, with Switzerland, New Zealand, Denmark and Canada rounding off the top five of the rating.

According to the executive director of the Legatum Institute Sian Hansen, the index reflects the level of a "national success." The authors of the Prosperity Index analysed achievements in the surveyed countries’ economies, business sphere, governance, education, health care system, defence sector, protection of rights and freedoms, and income of the population, reports Radio Liberty.

According to the report, this year Russia saw the biggest fall in its ranking compared to other European countries, dropping to 68th against 61st place last year. Legatum Institute analysts said Russia's actions in the international arena were to blame for the fall, namely - the annexation of Crimea, support for the insurgency in eastern Ukraine, as well as its vetos of UN Security Council resolutions on Syria.

As for Ukraine’s other neighbors; Poland ranked the 31st, Belarus 53rd, and Moldova 89th. The Prosperity Index covers 142 countries.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/society/1004547-ukraine-beats-russia-in-prosperity-index-ranks-63rd.html

It seems like wishful thinking more than reality.  Perhaps the author wanted to pump up Ukraine.  I'm not trying to put Ukraine down at all; it just seems like this is a bit of "Western propaganda" that Russians complain about.

Now in 5-10 years if Ukraine is successful in defending themselves and they become more integrated with the EU, then all bets are off.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:26:38 PM
Read that link carefully.  Above you claim that there are approximately 24,000 Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine, and yet the link you provide states that there are approximately 14,000 combined mercenaries and Russian soldiers, and then another 10,0000 to 12,0000 local fighters.

The devil is in the details.


Yeah, you're wrong.


Read it again.
http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/7480-svodka-kolichestvo-obstrelov-snizilos-protivnikom-sformirovany-4-udarnyh-gruppirovki-idet
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:32:50 PM

Yeah, you're wrong.


Read it again.
http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/7480-svodka-kolichestvo-obstrelov-snizilos-protivnikom-sformirovany-4-udarnyh-gruppirovki-idet

That's funny.  You say "read it again" but you post a different link.  No worries, same results.


Google translate
"As a part of these groups, it is estimated the group "IP", about 14-15 thousand Russian mercenaries and soldiers of the Russian Federation, as well as 10-12 thousand fighters from local gangs."


This part is more worrisome:
"Also in the data groups:
- 110-115 tanks;
- 250-280 AFV (armored fighting vehicles) such as BMP, BTR, MT-LB;
- 80-100 cannon artillery guns and MLRS units;
- The order of 500 units of vehicles (from Russian army armored Kamaz and tankers to Improvised Gun truck)."


The last tidbit is more telling, and that is that they are not successful because the "terrorists refuse to obey a single command".


That is obviously going to change if there is a real invasion with a real command structure, which let's cross our fingers there won't be.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 07:38:45 PM
Have a look at the source. It looks good to me.

http://www.li.com/about/about-the-legatum-institute
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:40:07 PM
So what?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:42:35 PM
It seems like wishful thinking more than reality.  Perhaps the author wanted to pump up Ukraine.  I'm not trying to put Ukraine down at all; it just seems like this is a bit of "Western propaganda" that Russians complain about.

Now in 5-10 years if Ukraine is successful in defending themselves and they become more integrated with the EU, then all bets are off.


Whatvs
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:43:40 PM
Have a look at the source. It looks good to me.

http://www.li.com/about/about-the-legatum-institute

Ukraine has enormous debt and gas and oil production are not anywhere near the level of Russia's, which is why Ukraine and Europe (currently) get their natural gas from Russia.

Yes it looks good but it just doesn't match the reality on the ground, IMO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 07:45:15 PM

Whatvs

Are you possibly posting while intoxicated?  Did you mean to write "what BS"?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:55:29 PM
Leave the insults for the Pro-Russia party.  You don't have ANY proof of your drive by swipe at the study of which I am not a fan. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 07:57:57 PM
Ukraine has enormous debt and gas and oil production are not anywhere near the level of Russia's, which is why Ukraine and Europe (currently) get their natural gas from Russia.

Yes it looks good but it just doesn't match the reality on the ground, IMO.

Again. So what?

68 Ukrainian soldiers have died since the ceasefire and you want to bird dog some BS study the Brits did as pro-Ukie propo?

Yeah whatever
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lonedrake on November 03, 2014, 08:00:45 PM
Billy's military analysis fails on several fronts.  First, none of his dire predictions have ever come true.  In fact, he ignores Ukrainian reverses or the efforts of the Date nbass Cyborgs who against all odds hold the airport.  Second, the Russian federation in Ukraine has no air support.  Ukraine doesn't exactly dominate the skies given the antiaircraft assets the Russians have in Eastern Ukraine.  Nonetheless we aren't seeing air to air battles and Ukraine's ability to bring its air force to the fight is a keep advantage.  Third, the Russians themselves can't seem to get the job done.  Military expert Dmitry Tymchuk estimates more than 24,000 Russians in Eastern Ukraine.  But they execute a low level of discipline and do not operate under a unified  single command.

Billy's analysis been excellent. Go back and read his....then read your analysis.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 08:01:25 PM
Read that link carefully.  Above you claim that there are approximately 24,000 Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine, and yet the link you provide states that there are approximately 14,000 combined mercenaries and Russian soldiers, and then another 10,0000 to 12,0000 local fighters.

The devil is in the details.

Dream on.

And General Breed love says there are only 350 Russians in Ukraine.  So who are you going to believe NATO or your lying eyes?

Even if what you wrote is true, so what?  How does it impeach my argument?  It doesn't.

Whatever dude
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 08:03:35 PM
Billy's analysis been excellent. Go back and read his....then read your analysis.

What instrument do you play on the band wagon you are riding?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lonedrake on November 03, 2014, 08:23:36 PM
What instrument do you play on the band wagon you are riding?


 It is always easy to read and understand what Billy B writes. I have a lot of respect for his analysis.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 08:39:08 PM
Billy's analysis been excellent. Go back and read his....then read your analysis.

+1  Compare actual analysis to incoherent ramblings.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 09:02:59 PM
Yeah, ok.  The Russians are reduced to trying to storm checkpoints.  Yet the Donetsk airport is in UKRAINIAN hands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 09:05:55 PM
AC, I'd suspect that they look at the overall health of the economy and such for the entire country. Not just the major cities. UA has some crude villages and so does Russia.

Maybe ours are a touch better?  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 09:15:16 PM
Prices for food in Ukraine are cheap compared to Russia.   The article itself doesn't get into the minutiae of why Ukraine is better than Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 03, 2014, 09:18:27 PM
+1  Compare actual analysis to incoherent ramblings.

Tell us how many battles and wars have been won where the comma di g general deploys his force piecemeal, doesn't coordinate his attacks, his commanders war amongst each other and the are not able to use full combat power?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 09:19:39 PM
AC, I'd suspect that they look at the overall health of the economy and such for the entire country. Not just the major cities. UA has some crude villages and so does Russia.

Maybe ours are a touch better?  :D

I think it's because the cost of living is less in Ukraine.  It's also likely because the cost of financing Crimea and the sanctions as well have caused substantial damage to Russia's economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 03, 2014, 09:24:13 PM
Tell us how many battles and wars have been won where the comma di g general deploys his force piecemeal, doesn't coordinate his attacks, his commanders war amongst each other and the are not able to use full combat power?

Come back tomorrow when you are sober.  Putin's accomplished much of what he wants to without (yet) resorting to a full scale invasion: 

a)  which is a frozen conflict whereby he can continue to meddle in Ukrainian affairs for years on end.
b)  extensive damage to Ukraine's economy which he hopes will result in
c)  Ukraine comes back to Russia's embrace.


Now answer the same question you posed but insert America's "war" and involvement in Iraq.  Aha.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 09:46:20 PM
Tell us how many battles and wars have been won where the comma di g general deploys his force piecemeal, doesn't coordinate his attacks, his commanders war amongst each other and the are not able to use full combat power?

 But these commanding generals have much larger resources than the UA Army does. Not to mention the real Generals behind the borders calling the real shots.

 How long are you going to be in country LT? I'll be there Dec. and Jan.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 03, 2014, 10:01:34 PM
Putin’s created an economic crisis and left Moscow no easy way out
By William E. Pomeranz November 4, 2014 REUTERS

Western sanctions have left Russia in dire financial circumstances — stuck somewhere between recession and stagnation. Though proven solutions exist for what now ails Russia, President Vladimir Putin’s geo-strategic and political choices have rendered these traditional economic approaches unworkable.

Under normal market conditions, for example, the recent collapse of the Russian ruble should have spurred exports, domestic manufacturing and foreign investment because a weaker currency makes Russian business more competitive both domestically and internationally. Yet a dramatic rebound in any of those economic arenas remains unlikely not just due to sanctions but also because of the entrenched structural weaknesses of Putin’s system.

In particular, Russia lacks a diversified economy, a vibrant entrepreneurial class, the rule of law and a stable business environment that can support a fast economic turnaround. In addition, this crisis has sparked Russian anti-Western and isolationist rhetoric that makes Moscow’s road to recovery significantly more difficult.

Putin’s pursuit of greater imperial glory has brought an unrelenting stream of bad economic news. The dramatic collapse of the price of oil means a decline in state revenues and less money for Putin’s ambitious military and social spending projects. Along with the ruble sinking, inflation is rising and capital flight has soared to record highs.

The only good news is that the Russian budget is in balance. That only occurred, however, because the government is paying its bills with cheaper rubles. It is never a good sign when the finance minister announces that he needs a backup budget since the proposed 2015-17 budget is already obsolete. (It is based on an oil price of $100 per barrel.)

Though Russia has discussed the merits of diversification beyond oil for decades, it has never bothered to implement the strategy. Russian domestic producers are thus in no position to take advantage of a falling ruble because, other than natural resources, they have relatively little to sell abroad.

But even if foreign markets remain out of reach, a falling currency theoretically should stimulate domestic production if only because foreign goods inevitably will become too expensive for Russian consumers. Moscow has heralded its food sanctions — which ban the import of European Union and U.S. meat, fruit and vegetables — as just such a chance to force Russians to buy local produce.

Yet Russian businessmen and women have been so over-regulated — and over-prosecuted — that the Russian entrepreneur has become an endangered species. Indeed, an amnesty last year revealed tens of thousands of business leaders in jail on essentially trumped-up charges. Despite much fanfare, only a relative trickle of people was eventually released.

Because government fiscal policy and a dysfunctional legal system won’t allow small- and medium-sized businesses to lead Russia out of recession, that leaves Russia’s big state corporations — the bedrock of Putin’s policy of state capitalism — to show the way. Thanks to sanctions, however, Russian companies and banks are busy seeking bailouts, not new markets.

Igor Sechin, chairman of the state oil company Rosneft, recently announced, for example, that what is good for Rosneft is good for Russia — and asked for $49 billion from the National Welfare Fund, one of Russia’s major rainy day funds.

Putin’s finance minister has already announced that Rosneft won’t get that much. But the collective demands for hard currency — from the central bank’s interventions to defend the ruble to Putin’s big spending plans for Crimea — are putting strong pressures on Russian financial reserves, which are already down 13 percent this year. Moscow is busy spending money, and no one knows when it will stop.

One last economic option available to most struggling economies — increased foreign direct investment — is largely off the table here thanks to the sanctions and Russia’s inhospitable business climate.

The Kremlin recently announced, however, that it intends to make a bad situation worse. Much of Russia’s foreign investments represent money returning from Russians living abroad. Yet now the finance ministry wants companies registered offshore and owned (50 percent or more) or potentially controlled (25 percent or more) by Russian citizens to pay taxes in Russia.

Why Russian businesses would want to expose their offshore earnings to Russian taxes once they have gone through the trouble of transferring their money out of the country remains a big mystery. Ironically, Putin had intended to use Russia’s chairmanship of the G-8 to lead a global fight against tax havens and offshore banking. But Russia is no longer a member of the G-8, and Putin must pursue his strategy of “de-offshorization” alone and with little chance of success.

Russia is in desperate need of a rational conversation about its economic challenges. Yet Putin refuses to engage in this dialogue because it obviously would interfere with the triumphant narrative dominating the Russian media. Instead, he is pursuing a policy of cracking down and lashing out. His latest diatribe, delivered at the Valdai Club, showed that he is in no mood to compromise and that he continues to blame the United States for Russia’s — and all the world’s — problems.

As the Russian economy continues its downward spiral, however, citizens are bound to ask difficult questions of their leaders. The Russian people bring a tradition of stoicism to any emergency, yet the current crisis is not the equivalent of foreign armies at the gates of Leningrad. Nor can it be compared to the long-running ideological struggle of the Cold War. This crisis is instead symbolized by the so-called Rotenberg law — that the Russian people should bail out oligarchs who have their villas seized in Italy.

Putin is playing for time here. There always is the risk that he will pursue additional imperial glory to maintain his popularity. Yet in the words of the economist Herbert Stein, chairman of President Richard M. Nixon’s Council of Economic advisers, “If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”

Russia’s savings are not inexhaustible. The main established routes to economic recovery — increasing exports, expanding domestic manufacturing, attracting more foreign investment — are not currently viable. Other proposed solutions, including price controls or fixed exchange rates, would only make matters worse.

Putin is the author of this crisis. And the Russian president will ultimately be required to provide some answers

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/11/03/putins-created-an-economic-crisis-and-left-russia-no-easy-way-out/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 04, 2014, 12:08:03 AM


Your numbers of Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine are also greatly exaggerated.

Earlier I posted some numbers of estimates-I believe they were conservative.
Today--as I post this--

http://twitter.com/Conflict_Report/status/529224302496083968

#BreakingReport The entire road between #Rovenky and #Debaltseve is full of #Russian_Army troops.
Around 2000 w/tanks

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 04, 2014, 02:41:24 AM
But these commanding generals have much larger resources than the UA Army does. Not to mention the real Generals behind the borders calling the real shots.

 How long are hours going to be in country LT? I'll be there Dec. and Jan.

Mike, I go back on Sunday.  But return last 2 weeks of January.  PM me if this works out for you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 04, 2014, 02:52:26 AM
Come back tomorrow when you are sober.  Putin's accomplished much of what he wants to without (yet) resorting to a full scale invasion: 

a)  which is a frozen conflict whereby he can continue to meddle in Ukrainian affairs for years on end.
b)  extensive damage to Ukraine's economy which he hopes will result in
c)  Ukraine comes back to Russia's embrace.


Now answer the same question you posed but insert America's "war" and involvement in Iraq.  Aha.

Comparing Iraqis to Ukrainians says a lot about you and your knowledge of the region.

There are a lot of adverts for English schools and apartments on the Kiev metro.  John Deere is here.  The Soviet blight is cruel and pervasive.  Kievans accept the Stalinist architecture rebuilt by slaves from the last war alongside the golden domed onion domes and smart phones.  I got a bit of business done with the Ukrainian civil service.  He was helpful, polite and spoke English which is more than I get in Harris County or the VA.  If you are a VC, come to Ukraine.  In a year it will be too late and this city will be almost livable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 05:05:34 AM
Comparing Iraqis to Ukrainians says a lot about you and your knowledge of the region.

I was not comparing Iraqi's to Ukrainian's.  I was comparing Russia's lack of commitment to a war to America's lack of commitment to war in Iraq.  I believe that was obvious; however I would like to hear the opinion of someone like Calmissile on this.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 04, 2014, 05:51:37 AM
Nothing you have written changes anything. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 05:58:34 AM
Tell us how many battles and wars have been won where the comma di g general deploys his force piecemeal, doesn't coordinate his attacks, his commanders war amongst each other and the are not able to use full combat power?

This is your quotation.  Obviously you were talking about Russia's lack of commitment to a full scale war in Ukraine.

Is that what you really want?  Wake up and smell the coffee. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 10:02:38 AM
What you are underestimating is the sheer will of the people of Ukraine-- the huge shift to support a united Ukraine is real-people want it.



Most Ukrainians may want a united Ukraine but I see few citizens willing to pick up a weapon and die for it. When we see Ukraine go on an offensive to retake Crimea, I'll believe most Ukrainians truly want a united Ukraine.


Carping on about the negative "could be's" is doing the Ukrainian people a disservice and you are underestimating them  -especially in a time when the young men are being sacrificed  in this battle.


Underestimating? Just being a realist. Poroshenko underestimated his military when he first became president. Remember how he announced the rebels will be flushed out in a day right after he was inaugurated? Underestimating ones opponent is a disservice and going to get people killed. A good leader and generals need to understand the truth to respond accordingly and the truth is the Ukrainian military is not well trained, not well led, and not well equipped so they are at a stalemate with street thugs and a few Russian troops. Poroshenko now has to swallow his pride and negotiate a gas deal with Putin so his people don't freeze this winter. It's not easy to face the guy who stole land and is killing your people but what are the options? The West isn't giving enough help and the Ukrainian military doesn't have the ability to get the job done.


Billy's military analysis fails on several fronts.  First, none of his dire predictions have ever come true.



Just because Putin hasn't completed his goals doesn't mean my predictions won't come true. Even before Putin invaded Crimea, I said on this forum Putin wants Ukraine and Ukraine needs to prepare for an invasion. An invasion has already happened. Smaller than what people thought but its all the same.


Putin has sacrificed military hardware, a few of his troops and his economy in his pursuit of Ukraine. Do you think he's going to give up now or do you think he wants a return on his investment? Giving up what he started is political suicide. It would be a statement that tells his people he doesn't know what he's doing so I say he's all in for the long haul in his conquest of Ukraine. The only thing that will stop his is if he feels the west takes military action against him. Sanctions don't work. They don't work on North Korea, Cuba, or Iran so why would it work against Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 04, 2014, 11:01:58 AM
On a completely different topic, oil prices slid to just above US$75 today.  That had an immediate impact on the Canadian dollar.  A drop in oil prices is not good news for Russia.


The Saudis are increasing output to retain their market share, and there is speculation the price will drop even further.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 04, 2014, 12:05:17 PM
A number of us predicted a Russian military incursion into Ukraine. Mendy and myself were discussing it during and after the Georgian invasion. With the same well known and equally vocal forum participants denying that invasion at the time as well.

The problems for Putin didn't arise as a result of what Ukraine did or didn't do. The problems for Putin started when a crew of his incompetent punk cronies accidently blew a civilian jetliner out of the sky.

Up to this point Putin's operation was going as planned and was on schedule for a quiet invasion of Ukraine which would have been over with minimum fuss and no more of a passing headline and some protests from the West similar to what transpired with Georgia.

MH17 focused world attention on Ukraine and like someone turning on a floodlight onto a dark stage, there was Mr. Putin eyes wide like a deer in the headlights with his hand in the cookie jar, the entire operation soon to be exposed.

Putin's choices were mutter something along the lines of "Uh, it's not what it looks like folks" and walk away or carry on with his occupation in full view of the world. He has chosen the latter because as others have mentioned if he loses face he loses Russia.

Has Putin attained his objectives/goals? Not a chance. Putin's dreams of absorbing Russia's satellites are over. It was over the second the criminally negligent fool operating that BUK threw the launch switch.

Having said that had those people on that plane not died that day Russia would own Ukraine by now and be quietly moving on to yet another country.

Will we see a united Ukraine in the near future? I think we will. Unlike most of the members here I do believe the next phase of this conflict will be a shooting war between NATO and Russia or at least a military intervention by NATO/allied countries.  This won't happen for two years yet but when the US reasserts itself back on to the world stage there will be more than a few countries ready to get in this fight, Canada being one of them.

Poroshenko/Ukraine's military? Ukraine is doing remarkably well on the battle field considering they've been abandoned by the rest of the world.

Up to the point where Russia realized that if they didn't openly start moving troops, armor and supplies into Ukraine (even while still denying it) they were going to lose what gains had been made, Ukraine was winning this war.

However, will bravo zulus, pats on the back and atta boys from Nato countries help Ukraine win the war? Nope. They will lose this thing if Poroshenko doesn't employ every diplomatic trick in the book to keep his country alive and that's what he's doing.

One day this guy's going to write his biography/memos and there will be a few red faces from former leaders of western/nato countries, I'm sure.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 04, 2014, 12:24:57 PM
EU Delays Decision on Russia's Access to Opal Gas Pipeline
Reuters
Nov. 03 2014 17:19
Last edited 19:41

The European Commission said Monday it had pushed back a deadline for deciding whether to give Russia more access to the Opal gas pipeline across Germany until the end of January from the end of October.

Russian gas exporter Gazprom is currently allowed only limited access to the pipeline under a European Union law which seeks to prevent energy suppliers from dominating infrastructure.

But no-one else has taken up the spare capacity on Opal, which provides a link between Russia's Nord Stream pipeline to Germany and the Czech Republic.

"The Commission has agreed with the German Federal Network Agency (Bundesnetzagentur) to prolong the deadline for issuing a decision on Opal. The reason ... is that certain technical aspects require further attention," a Commission official said.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it was difficult to say exactly when a decision would be made. The new deadline was the end of January 2015, although it could be extended further.

A decision on whether to grant Gazprom greater access has already been delayed several times.

The latest delay comes at a time of high tension between the EU and Russia over the Ukraine crisis. The conflict and Gazprom's decision in June to cut off gas supplies to Ukraine over unpaid bills has heightened the EU's determination to reduce its energy dependence on Russia.

Gazprom said last Wednesday it had failed to reach a deal at talks with the European Commission on the Opal gas pipeline and wanted new negotiations.

In Brussels last week, Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak criticized the failure as a political decision.

Ukraine, Russia and the EU signed a deal last Thursday that will see Moscow resume vital supplies of gas to its former Soviet neighbor over the winter months in return for payments funded in part by Kiev's Western creditors.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/eu-delays-decision-on-russia-s-access-to-opal-gas-pipeline/510577.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 04, 2014, 12:38:02 PM
Oil takes another dip. Not good news for the huilomeister's junta.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 01:52:51 PM
Oil takes another dip. Not good news for the huilomeister's junta.

I think he's insane if he launches a full scale invasion to get his land bridge now, considering that it's going to bankrupt him.  Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 01:58:35 PM

Will we see a united Ukraine in the near future? I think we will. Unlike most of the members here I do believe the next phase of this conflict will be a shooting war between NATO and Russia or at least a military intervention by NATO/allied countries.  This won't happen for two years yet but when the US reasserts itself back on to the world stage there will be more than a few countries ready to get in this fight, Canada being one of them.

Poroshenko/Ukraine's military? Ukraine is doing remarkably well on the battle field considering they've been abandoned by the rest of the world.



+1     (I am cautiously optimistic that you are correct about the US reasserting itself back on the world stage)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on November 04, 2014, 02:46:31 PM
The Saudis are increasing output to retain their market share, and there is speculation the price will drop even further.
Yes indeed. All the while, the bear is wasting it's hard earned on fruitless and ultimately very expensive military objectives. I cannot but wonder (cough) who's really pulling the strings? I seem to recall something like "We'll break these bastards and we'll let them do it themselves with what they love doing". History has a nasty habit of repeating itself, very quickly sometimes - the price of MIL's next trip here has increased by 30% in as many weeks.............
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 04, 2014, 04:09:03 PM


The Saudis are increasing output to retain their market share, and there is speculation the price will drop even further.

The Saudis are increasing output to reduce competition.   Increased production reduces the price of oil to a level below what is needed for new shale oil drilling projects to be economically feasible.     The fracking of shale oil and its transport to refiners is more expensive than Saudi's production.  Other OPEC members are not pleased with the Saudi initiative.   There is a limit to how far down the Saudis will drive the price,
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 04:42:43 PM
I think he's insane if he launches a full scale invasion to get his land bridge now, considering that it's going to bankrupt him. 



An invasion of Europe will bring those oil prices back up. War will hurt more developed countries than those that aren't as developed so Europe has more to worry about than Russia if Putin chooses war. I doubt this economic war the West is applying on Russia is going to put Putin on his knees, apologize and ask for a seat back in the circle of Western friends. We aren't going to stop Putin with sanctions but we are backing him in a corner. Putin is the cat.


If Putin goes to war, there's little risk he'll lose Russia if the West decides to get involved military. Hard to invade a country when they have nukes as an option for their defense.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 04, 2014, 05:11:31 PM
Do you seriously think Putin would launch Nukes at invading troops in his own country..ever heard of radioactive fallout ?

Nukes are a deterrent to stop other countries firing Nukes at you,knowing they'll get the same back...not to dump them in your own country.

Russia could quite possibly be invaded by NATO ,the Russian Defense Minister has already expressed increasing alarm at the unprecedented build-up of NATO forces on the Russian borders...nothing is off the table.

NATO is getting increasingly miffed with the three times higher than usual invasion of their airspace by Russian bombers and fighter aircraft this year...but doesn't need to rush anything..let Russia strangle itself economically first by keep pushing into Ukraine while the sanctions continue to get ramped-up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on November 04, 2014, 05:15:18 PM
let Russia strangle itself economically first
It has an impressive record of exactly that - I fear history will repeat...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 05:25:41 PM
Do you seriously think Putin would launch Nukes at invading troops in his own country..ever heard of radioactive fallout ?



Yes, if it preserves the Russian way of life as Putin sees it. What is radioactive fallout compared to losing ones country? Neutron bombs will most likely be used on invading troops. Kill living organisms while preserving infrastructure and minimizing radioactive fallout.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on November 04, 2014, 05:28:57 PM
Billy - Please stop this nonsense, nobody but nobody is interesting in invading Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 04, 2014, 05:29:12 PM
The Saudis are increasing output to reduce competition.   Increased production reduces the price of oil to a level below what is needed for new shale oil drilling projects to be economically feasible.     The fracking of shale oil and its transport to refiners is more expensive than Saudi's production.  Other OPEC members are not pleased with the Saudi initiative.   There is a limit to how far down the Saudis will drive the price,

I doubt the price of oil is controlled by Saudis. Political will affects the short-living price fluctuations but the basement is global money flows which where headed in dollar bonds because of crisis. Oil looks stronger than other commodities, and the pattern on a few years price scale shows high probability for sharp breakthrough upside.  Created dollar mass is too large to be calm for too long, economic laws can not be annuled by politicians.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 04, 2014, 05:30:12 PM
Billy - Please stop this nonsense, nobody but nobody is interesting in invading Russia.

Except Billy  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 04, 2014, 06:23:27 PM
Do you seriously think Putin would launch Nukes at invading troops in his own country.. ( Ukraine isn't his country) ever heard of radioactive fallout ?

Nukes are a deterrent to stop other countries firing Nukes at you,knowing they'll get the same back...not to dump them in your own country.

Russia could quite possibly be invaded by NATO
,( Yeah in Bizzaro World the Russian Defense Minister has already expressed increasing alarm at the unprecedented build-up of NATO forces on the Russian borders...nothing is off the table.

NATO is getting increasingly miffed with the three times higher than usual invasion of their airspace by Russian bombers and fighter aircraft this year...but doesn't need to rush anything..let Russia strangle itself economically first by keep pushing into Ukraine while the sanctions continue to get ramped-up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 04, 2014, 07:04:31 PM
Agree it is political suicide for the Russian President to quit.  But his slow motion invasion is not working.  He doesn't want to escalate this because it would bring a united response from NATO. 

This isn't helping either:
http://time.com/3553962/us-dollar-greenback-currency-money-global-economy-treasury-securities/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 04, 2014, 07:43:51 PM
Billy - Please stop this nonsense, nobody but nobody is interesting in invading Russia.

+1 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 08:58:47 PM
nobody but nobody is interesting in invading Russia.


That's what I've been saying based off nuclear deterrent. There will be interested parties going to war with Russia if they have ambitions past Ukraine. Follow the conversation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 04, 2014, 09:19:14 PM


Russia could quite possibly be invaded by NATO ,the Russian Defense Minister has already expressed increasing alarm at the unprecedented build-up of NATO forces on the Russian borders...nothing is off the table.

NATO is getting increasingly miffed with the three times higher than usual invasion of their airspace by Russian bombers and fighter aircraft this year...but doesn't need to rush anything..let Russia strangle itself economically first by keep pushing into Ukraine while the sanctions continue to get ramped-up.


I don't see NATO conducting any invasion against Russia.  From what I've gathered that isn't even close to an option, AT THIS TIME.  If some event like this were to happen, the world would probably be thrown into a monumental battle, and nobody would be safe. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 04, 2014, 09:48:24 PM
I don't see NATO conducting any invasion against Russia.  From what I've gathered that isn't even close to an option, AT THIS TIME.



Russia is keeping the nuclear option on the table to make sure NATO doesn't get any ideas. I just read the article below. NATO commander Breedlove says Russia is discussion plans to put aircraft in Crimea that have a full range of capabilities including tactical nuclear weapons. How does he know this? He hasn't seen any evidence of it. I'm sure we've been intercepting phone calls of Russians in high places.


Chelseaboy, the neutron bombs I spoke of earlier are tactical nuclear weapons. They're ideal to annihilate armies in one blow without damaging the city they are attacking.


http://news.yahoo.com/us-general-paints-grim-picture-russia-relations-202012521.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 04, 2014, 10:38:30 PM
I doubt the price of oil is controlled by Saudis.

Price is set in the oil futures market based largely on two factors:  supply vs. demand and market sentiment (attitude of investors regarding future developments). 

The Saudis are significantly increasing the world supply of oil, and because the world demand for oil has not kept pace with the increased supply, the price for future oil drops.   And the market sentiment says the Saudis will continue to do this.  Thus, Saudis are causing the price for future oil to decline.   



Quote
Political will affects the short-living price fluctuations ...

What?  Yes, politics can have some affect.  Obama not approving the Keystone Pipeline and not drilling on Federal land indirectly kept prices higher, yet I assert this effect in the totality of the global market was small.     Political  turmoil in an OPEC country would curtail production, etc. yet these are rare.   

The majority of oil is used for fuel.  The demand for fuel vs. its supply largely determines price, not political will.

 


Quote
Oil looks stronger than other commodities, and the pattern on a few years price scale shows high probability for sharp breakthrough upside.

So you are a technical analyst (charts) rather than a fundamental analyst.   Expecting a breakout in price is thus your sentiment about the future market, and if you were a trader in oil futures you would buy call options.  If others did the same, the price would increase somewhat.  However, if the Saudis continued to produce more than their quota, you would lose your shirt.   


Quote
Created dollar mass is too large to be calm for too long, economic laws can not be annuled by politicians.

I am not sure what you are saying, although the second part suggests you agree that supply vs. demand determines price.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: I/O on November 05, 2014, 12:30:04 AM
Follow the conversation.
I have been - nobody is interested in invading Russia. Russias nuclear capability or out dated lack thereof, depending on what audience you're pitching to, has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Nobody is interested because it has nothing anyone wants, save some gas for Europe which is too stupid to see things for what they are, apart from all else. Face it, you wouldn't exactly move to Russia for the superior climate.... ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 05, 2014, 12:54:26 AM
I have been - nobody is interested in invading Russia. Russias nuclear capability or out dated lack thereof, depending on what audience you're pitching to, has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Nobody is interested because it has nothing anyone wants, save some gas for Europe which is too stupid to see things for what they are, apart from all else. Face it, you wouldn't exactly move to Russia for the superior climate.... ;D

Actually there is something the world wants from Russia..........To Be Left Alone!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 05, 2014, 06:58:33 AM
Actually there is something the world wants from Russia..........To Be Left Alone!


That would be the best reason to invade Russia by changing it's government but Putin is safe due to nuclear deterrent. He has little to lose if he decides to try something big in the future. We are going to have to deal with him for many more years whatever he decides to do.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on November 05, 2014, 08:33:19 AM
Well, let's see now if the US Congress arms Ukraine to the teeth and invade Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 05, 2014, 08:52:58 AM
Billy, though I disagree with your response, it is well written.  We are looking at the same Jackson Pollack and coming to different conclusions.  But even you concede that the President of Russia has suffered significant setbacks.  I would agree with you more if this was before May 5th.  Since Poroshenko took over, he has made a lot of good moves.  When the people of Odessa burned the separatists alive and when Poroshenko took Slaviansk, the momentum changed.  Yeah, they reversed some of those gains when they invaded from the sea.  But unanswered is how can you achieve a victory when you cannot use all your combat power and under divided commands?

You also underestimate in my opinion the Russian mind.  It is a culture of bandits.  They will never prosper. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 05, 2014, 09:00:04 AM
Putin is not safe from his friends.  Invading Russia should be on the table.  If Russia fails in this next offensive, the Army will collapse.  Invasion would be merciful
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 05, 2014, 01:20:18 PM
The Russian currency tumbled Wednesday as the Central Bank announced a major step toward a free floating exchange rate, reversing a policy of managing ruble volatility through market interventions that has been in place for 15 years.

The ruble plunged shortly after markets opened following two days of national holidays and passed the psychologically important 45-to-the-dollar mark for the first time in history during early evening trading.

Announcing it would spend no more than $350 million a day in defense of the currency, the Central Bank said in a statement Wednesday: "The ruble exchange rate will be determined predominantly by market factors." Previously there was no upper limit to the bank's interventions.

“The old framework has been torn up,” Neil Shearing, chief economist at Capital Economics, said in a note Wednesday.

The ruble pared losses Wednesday afternoon but dropped rapidly again in the evening, crashing past the 56-to-the-euro mark for the second time in one day and trading down more than 2 percent against the greenback on the previous day's close.



http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/central-bank-keeps-floating-corridor-to-avoid-market-shock/510654.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 01:23:21 PM
The Ruble has lost 28% year to date?  Ouch!  I didn't know it was really that bad.  That is some very serious inflation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 05, 2014, 01:40:47 PM
Well, let's see now if the US Congress arms Ukraine to the teeth and invade Russia.


Are you in pain today? 

Should be interesting times in Washington.  If McConnell can dissuade Ted Cruz from passing a bill to repeal Obamacare, maybe Obama will not take executive action in immigration and instead await a bipartisan bill.  I still worry that Obama does not know how to get along with Republicans.  I also worry that the tea party, although somewhat diminished, is still active. 

Regarding Ukraine, it will not take front stage given ISIS, Syria, Iran, Israel, ebola, etc.  Ukraine unfortunately will have the same priority as Afghanistan.  That could change if Putin raises the stakes.  Meanwhile, the sanctions are working. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 02:48:43 PM
The nail in the coffin?  (in an economic sense)


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-has-votes-to-pass-keystone/ar-BBd7Vl7
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 05, 2014, 02:53:53 PM
No this is the nail in the coffin that they'll understand easiest!

http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/308017/hs_separatists_death_volunteers_purchased_modern_sniper_rifle_for_soldiers_photos
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 03:05:29 PM
No this is the nail in the coffin that they'll understand easiest!

http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/308017/hs_separatists_death_volunteers_purchased_modern_sniper_rifle_for_soldiers_photos

Nice!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 05, 2014, 03:14:27 PM
The top target was at 600 meters. The bottom was at 1 kilometer.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 03:44:22 PM
The top target was at 300 meters. The bottom was at 1 kilometer.

I think the top one was at 600 meters, at least that's what they originally dialed it in at per the text.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 05, 2014, 03:58:35 PM
The other side of the falling ruble story is the strength of the US dollar.

Today Russian propagandist Graham Phillips sent off Russian fighters that would later die in the fighting for the Donetsk airport.  Two of the dead were children.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 05, 2014, 04:55:23 PM
War gaming Billy's doomsday scenario
http://nr2.com.ua/News/world_and_russia/Kakie-poteri-budut-u-rossiyskoy-armii-esli-Putin-nachnet-probivat-koridor-na-Krym-83918.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 05, 2014, 05:42:15 PM
Russian actor and Putin critic found dead in Moscow

..."Police suspect foul play after Alexei Devotchenko, critic of Vladimir Putin, discovered "in pool of blood"...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html

...Gee, ya think?  :rolleyes:

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on November 05, 2014, 05:54:14 PM

Are you in pain today? 

Should be interesting times in Washington.  If McConnell can dissuade Ted Cruz from passing a bill to repeal Obamacare, maybe Obama will not take executive action in immigration and instead await a bipartisan bill.  I still worry that Obama does not know how to get along with Republicans.  I also worry that the tea party, although somewhat diminished, is still active. 

Regarding Ukraine, it will not take front stage given ISIS, Syria, Iran, Israel, ebola, etc.  Ukraine unfortunately will have the same priority as Afghanistan.  That could change if Putin raises the stakes.  Meanwhile, the sanctions are working.


LMFAO


Nah!


Actually, I'm enjoying this and much more later on.


There is a saying in PR: "Dale cuerda para que se ahorque."


Trust me, it will be fun to watch the implosion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 05, 2014, 06:50:49 PM
Russian actor and Putin critic found dead in Moscow

..."Police suspect foul play after Alexei Devotchenko, critic of Vladimir Putin, discovered "in pool of blood"...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html

...Gee, ya think?  :rolleyes:

Brass

Gotta love the Russkies way of going insane.  At least for the most part they do it en mass, and anyone who doesn't get with the program will be dealt with.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2014, 12:11:59 AM
  Since Poroshenko took over, he has made a lot of good moves. 



I like Poroshenko but he's in charge of a losing team. Prior to him showing up, Ukraine was a place of corruption and dysfunction. Putin is partially to blame for them being where they're at. They can change overnight.


Putin also has made good moves to achieve his objectives. Based on the recent sham elections in east Ukraine, Putin is one step closer to owning more land.



Regarding Ukraine, it will not take front stage given ISIS, Syria, Iran, Israel, ebola, etc.  Ukraine unfortunately will have the same priority as Afghanistan.  That could change if Putin raises the stakes.  Meanwhile, the sanctions are working. 



What do you think the sanctions are suppose to achieve? Hurt the Russian economy or stop Putin? Putin has not stopped and there is no sign of him wanting to stop. Russian Foreign Ministry below says sanctions will fail to achieve goals.


http://en.ria.ru/world/20140804/191708921/Sanctions-Applied-by-West-Will-Fail-to-Achieve-Goals.html


Putin has influence in Syria and Iran. He can promote mayhem in those regions to keep the focus off Russia and hurt the people hurting him.


Germany once endured worse than sanctions. With their economy and infrastructure shattered after WWI, they were forced to pay war reparations. It pissed the Germans off more. They gave their support to a fanatic named Hitler, worked hard to rebuild and become a military power, and were led to a greater war. Sanctions are pissing Russians off and Putin is gaining support and increasing the size of his military. With sanctions being the only thing the West is willing to do, Putin has plenty of time to build his empire. With the Ruble declining, Levi jeans will become more expensive to Russian citizens but it's not a necessary item needed in the production of guns and tanks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 06, 2014, 12:32:00 AM
Germany once endured worse than sanctions. With their economy and infrastructure shattered after WWI, they were forced to pay war reparations. It pissed the Germans off more. They gave their support to a fanatic named Hitler, worked hard to rebuild and become a military power, and were led to a greater war. Sanctions are pissing Russians off and Putin is gaining support and increasing the size of his military. With sanctions being the only thing the West is willing to do, Putin has plenty of time to build his empire. With the Ruble declining, Levi jeans will become more expensive to Russian citizens but it's not a necessary item needed in the production of guns and tanks.

Excellent post.  Too bad some of the cheerleaders on this forum are not capable of such critical thinking.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 06, 2014, 01:10:42 AM
With the Rouble in free fall, soon even eating dirt will become an unaffordable luxury for the average Russian citizen...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 06, 2014, 01:22:21 AM
With the Rouble in free fall, soon even eating dirt will become an unaffordable luxury for the average Russian citizen...

Wishful thinking.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 06, 2014, 02:23:10 AM

I like Poroshenko but he's in charge of a losing team. Prior to him showing up, Ukraine was a place of corruption and dysfunction. Putin is partially to blame for them being where they're at. They can change overnight.


Putin also has made good moves to achieve his objectives. Based on the recent sham elections in east Ukraine, Putin is one step closer to owning more land.




What do you think the sanctions are suppose to achieve? Hurt the Russian economy or stop Putin? Putin has not stopped and there is no sign of him wanting to stop. Russian Foreign Ministry below says sanctions will fail to achieve goals.


http://en.ria.ru/world/20140804/191708921/Sanctions-Applied-by-West-Will-Fail-to-Achieve-Goals.html


Putin has influence in Syria and Iran. He can promote mayhem in those regions to keep the focus off Russia and hurt the people hurting him.


Germany once endured worse than sanctions. With their economy and infrastructure shattered after WWI, they were forced to pay war reparations. It pissed the Germans off more. They gave their support to a fanatic named Hitler, worked hard to rebuild and become a military power, and were led to a greater war. Sanctions are pissing Russians off and Putin is gaining support and increasing the size of his military. With sanctions being the only thing the West is willing to do, Putin has plenty of time to build his empire. With the Ruble declining, Levi jeans will become more expensive to Russian citizens but it's not a necessary item needed in the production of guns and tanks.

You make far to many assumptions.

Sanctions were never going to be a 5 minute influence on Putin--or on Russian thinking. Sanctions and the impact will take time to really hit home and start changing Russian opinions.
To repeat-- the sanctions will be continually ramped up -in the long term it will leave Russia as isolated prior to the collapse of the USSR.

You are wrong about Putin having time-- he is on borrowed time now.
He is staking a lot on a military victory in Ukraine-- and that is now no where near as certain as previously. A loss-- or serious losses will see real pressure on Putin himself-- and of course on Russia in general.

For Ukraine--if time can be bought( at the cost of conducting a war in the east) it will give the new government the chance to start to govern-that is something they have hardly had the chance to do since getting rid of Yanukovytch & co.

One other point--if you BB persist in stating ridiculous ideas like you will believe in Ukrainians intent to fight when they attempt to take back the Crimea- is a truly ridiculous comment and totally misses the point that Ukraine is fighting to protect themselves and good Ukrainian lives are being lost- your attitude is disrespectful.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 04:09:28 AM
Billy, Germany is not Russia.  Ukraine is not losing.  Ukraine gains allies everyday where Russia gets weaker and weaker.  Sanctions aren't supposed to deter Putin but to create incentives for his potential successor. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2014, 06:07:50 AM
With the Rouble in free fall, soon even eating dirt will become an unaffordable luxury for the average Russian citizen...



Items that have to be imported will only be expensive to Russians. They will ramp up manufacturing within their own country to suit their needs.


Sanctions were never going to be a 5 minute influence on Putin--or on Russian thinking. Sanctions and the impact will take time to really hit home and start changing Russian opinions.



Maybe the pro Putin's living in Russia can respond to your thoughts. Are they more pissed off with Putin or the West compared to how they felt 6 months ago?


To repeat-- the sanctions will be continually ramped up -in the long term it will leave Russia as isolated prior to the collapse of the USSR.



Cuba never did see it our way. Iran and North Korea will achieve their goals. Sanctions only delay the inevitable. It's not a question of "if" Iran and North Korea will manufacture nukes, it's a question of "when". Can anybody educate us on when sanctions worked on a country?


One other point--if you BB persist in stating ridiculous ideas like you will believe in Ukrainians intent to fight when they attempt to take back the Crimea- is a truly ridiculous comment and totally misses the point that Ukraine is fighting to protect themselves and good Ukrainian lives are being lost- your attitude is disrespectful.


Poroshenko said he's intent on taking back Crimea on day one. Unfortunately he later learned his military isn't capable. No matter how much you believe the Ukrainian fighting spirit will prevail, reality says they need outside help that so far hasn't arrived.


http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/05/26/364280/i-will-get-crimea-back-poroshenko/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 06:14:42 AM
Wrong again.  Sanctions brought Iran to the bargaining table.  Also sanctions weren't meant to deter NK but isolate it.  Sanctions again aren't meant to topple Castro but punish Cuba.  Again Billy all wrong.  Meanwhile the dollar gets stronger while Putin presumably dying of cancer gets weaker.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2014, 07:01:43 AM
Wrong again.  Sanctions brought Iran to the bargaining table. 



While waiting the nuclear program advances, why not come to the table so Iran can get concessions from the West? After they make advances, they cut the locks off the reactor doors and shut off the surveillance cameras. They have been playing a game over and over with us for years.


  Also sanctions weren't meant to deter NK but isolate it. 



So we weren't trying to deter NK from getting nukes and the goal is punishing their people? Well then, NK is free to get nukes since nobody is deterring them from that goal.


  Sanctions again aren't meant to topple Castro but punish Cuba.



Did Castro give back the land he stole from foreign citizens? NO, so the sanctions didn't work. Anybody else wanna try to show a case where sanctions worked?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 07:28:23 AM
Do you know how close Florida is to Cuba?  If sanctions aren't working why aren't New Yorkers building retirement homes there?  Again,  with respect to NK, sanctions were meant to isolate.  The fact it built a nuclear bomb when Clinton lifted sanctions are not that sanctions did not work its that some people were foolish enough to believe a leopard can change its spots.

You are depriving the West of its important weapon in siege warfare.  You have to have the stomach for it if you are going to wage it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 06, 2014, 11:20:18 AM
The Rubble/Ruble bounced off of 46.13.

 Then they have to find $30B next month for bond repos.

50 B for Yukos shareholders in January.
715 B budgeted for military stuff for the coming years.
They are using the rainy day funds planned for retirement pensions and health to support corporations like ROSNEFT
Crimea is in deep shiat. More $$$$$
They plan 2018 for the football championship so more stealing to come.$$$$


Sucks to be them.. :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 06, 2014, 11:57:57 AM
Wouldn't this just burn Putin's borscht... :P

Canada emerges as potential buyer of French-built Mistral-class warships

..."The Canadian military has emerged as a potential destination for the controversial French-built Mistral-class helicopter carrier ships, built for Russia, the International Business Times is reporting.

The possibility of a Canadian solution appeared in French media after French President François Hollande visited Canada this week, the newspaper reported.

This type of suggestion has surfaced before. Former Conservative Senator Hugh Segal suggested that Canada or NATO should buy the Mistral-class military assault ships rather than allow them to be added to the Russia naval fleet."...

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/06/canada-emerges-as-potential-buyer-of-french-built-mistral-class-warships/

There'd be a hell of a fight with Canadian shipbuilders though so I doubt it'll happen (without concessions). ::)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
The Sopranos with nukes are moving more missiles on the border.  If these bastards are winning, why do they need reinforcement during a ceasefire?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 06, 2014, 04:43:40 PM
What do you think the sanctions are suppose to achieve? Hurt the Russian economy or stop Putin? Putin has not stopped and there is no sign of him wanting to stop. Russian Foreign Ministry below says sanctions will fail to achieve goals.


http://en.ria.ru/world/20140804/191708921/Sanctions-Applied-by-West-Will-Fail-to-Achieve-Goals.html

Billy, that link is three months old.  For most world affairs I don't think that would matter, but in this case it does.  We've already had Russian Government officials admitting that the sanctions ARE hurting which, given the West's disinclination to provide practical help to Ukraine, is probably the only step in the right direction that we will see.  Only time will tell now if Ukraine can survive long enough to see the end of Putin - but it will still need help to do so.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 04:58:03 PM
A new American President might have different ideas
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 06, 2014, 07:18:06 PM
Billy, that link is three months old. 



Today is no different than 3 months ago. The sanctions haven't achieved it's goals.


We've already had Russian Government officials admitting that the sanctions ARE hurting



Hurting Russia is not the goal of the sanctions. The goal of the sanctions is to discourage Putin from grabbing more land. There is belief that hurting Russia's economy will get Putin to give up his ambitions. I believe it pisses him off more. He's going to show the West he'll get what he wants and with the weak response from the West, he'll do it without a major military campaign.


Many Russians consider Putin is the man who got Russia back on it's feet after the USSR dissolved. His bold moves and tough guy stance towards the West only solidifies his standing among most citizens.


Here's current news. Russia is moving ballistic missiles on Ukraine's border. I wouldn't be surprised with east Ukraine's newly elected leadership, they'll be inviting Russia into their home.


http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-moving-rockets-towards-ukraine-battlefield-2014-11
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 06, 2014, 08:09:32 PM
Sadly I agree with Billy B's analysis.  If Russia wanted to they could likely get their land-bridge within a few days.  The current US administration would do nothing but talk and talk is cheap.  The current leaders in the EU don't like the harm being done to their economy.

I also agree with BB's assertion that sanctions alone are just making Putin and his crowd mad.  Last thing the world needs is an angry hornet's nest with Nuclear weapons.  He's probably getting ready to make a move.  The only thing holding him back is he is likely studying what effect the change in US leadership is going to have.  Without a real leader at the top the Congress alone is not able to protect Ukraine.

Another analyst (a real one, not an internet hero like us guys) I read thinks that Russia will invade next spring.  Either way without Ukraine getting the heavy weapons assistance they need I think it will be a miracle if their country remains intact.  Okay cheerleaders, start the hate session.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 06, 2014, 08:41:26 PM
With the Rouble in free fall, soon even eating dirt will become an unaffordable luxury for the average Russian citizen...

The idea of a 'free fall' or any sort of change, plus or minus, is with respect to other currencies.

This need not have any effect on the price of locally produced items.

Yes, it often does, strictly because those in control of locally produced items are hedging their bets against what might happen in the domestic economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 06, 2014, 09:06:54 PM
Wouldn't this just burn Putin's borscht... :P

Canada emerges as potential buyer of French-built Mistral-class warships


Great news! I hope that's true...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 06, 2014, 09:42:23 PM
The idea of a 'free fall' or any sort of change, plus or minus, is with respect to other currencies.

This need not have any effect on the price of locally produced items.

Yes, it often does, strictly because those in control of locally produced items are hedging their bets against what might happen in the domestic economy.

The issue goes beyond local goods.  Those local goods that can be exported will be worth more in ruble terms, and Russian citizens would need to pay more for vodka, etc.  In fact, if Russia were a large exporter of manufactured goods, the devaluation would be helpful to the economy.  However, Russian exports are limited mostly to commodities.  I guess Russia will be selling more military weapons to India, etc.

I can only assume that the devaluation  would discourage investment, particularly foreign investment.  It would also encourage flight of capital.  Both of these are harmful to the economy over an extended period. 

So how are Putin's plans progressing for a currency exchange shared with China and India, creating something competitive to the dollar and Euro?  I can only guess the Chines want their Yuan back.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 06, 2014, 09:52:31 PM
Who in their right mind would want to invest there when the government is taking private business away and will not allow foreigner's to own more than 20%?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 06, 2014, 10:54:01 PM
Every day the Ruble falls is a great day for Ukraine. 

From my friend Anders Ostlund:
Russia's economy: No access to credit, no investments, no manufacturing, brain drain, sinking oil price, lower oil production expected.


China to invade Russia
http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.be/2014/11/window-on-eurasia-if-anyone-is-going-to.html?m=1


I predict Ukraine will invade and Occupy Moscow.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 06, 2014, 11:20:29 PM
As I inderstand not many of posters are involved in international markets. Othewise they would not believe too much in free ruble fall. Just a couple of facts for consideration:

1. Ruble was devaluated in 4 times in crisis in 1998.  Nothing happened, or at least all  consequences were forgot in a year.

2. Japanese yena declines against dollar by 44% for the last two years. It's more than ruble at the same time. Japan is heading for a crush? :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 06, 2014, 11:28:59 PM
Except the Nipponese aren't invading their neighbors and murdering them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 07, 2014, 04:08:55 AM
I wonder how the NATO troops training of the Ukrainian armed forces in western Ukraine is coming along ?

I suspect the Russians and their separatist mates are gonna have a huge shock if they try and advance further into Ukraine...and will probably also have real problems trying to hold the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

Well-trained Ukrainian troops who are very pissed-off with Russia fighting Russian conscripts and mercenaries ..i'm not so convinced by the doom mongers on here about Ukraine's chances in this war.

None of us know if any advanced weapons have been supplied to Ukraine by NATO  countries.

How many of the armchair experts on here would want to face angry Ukrainians on the field of battle or in the war-torn cities ?

Ukrainians are a merciless bunch...especially when they're fighting for their families,their homes,their land i'd imagine.

Will make Bosnia seem like a walk in the park i suspect.

So,with the Russian economy tanking big-time and the Russian body-bags piling up in the trucks going back to Russia,let's see how long the Russian nationalistic worship for Putler lasts. .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 05:54:15 AM
As I inderstand not many of posters are involved in international markets. Othewise they would not believe too much in free ruble fall. Just a couple of facts for consideration:

1. Ruble was devaluated in 4 times in crisis in 1998.  Nothing happened, or at least all  consequences were forgot in a year.

2. Japanese yena declines against dollar by 44% for the last two years. It's more than ruble at the same time. Japan is heading for a crush? :)

So by nothing happened you mean people lost their life savings?

Japan has experienced a second lost decade, cruising for a third.  But maybe this is prosperity in Putin's Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 05:56:09 AM
Wishful thinking.

Not so wishful, but certain to students of history . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 05:57:10 AM
Except the Nipponese aren't invading their neighbors and murdering them.

Retaking the Kurile Islands would be nice
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 06:06:57 AM
I wonder how the NATO troops training of the Ukrainian armed forces in western Ukraine is coming along ?

I suspect the Russians and their separatist mates are gonna have a huge shock if they try and advance further into Ukraine...and will probably also have real problems trying to hold the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

Well-trained Ukrainian troops who are very pissed-off with Russia fighting Russian conscripts and mercenaries ..i'm not so convinced by the doom mongers on here about Ukraine's chances in this war.

None of us know if any advanced weapons have been supplied to Ukraine by NATO  countries.

How many of the armchair experts on here would want to face angry Ukrainians on the field of battle or in the war-torn cities ?

Ukrainians are a merciless bunch...especially when they're fighting for their families,their homes,their land i'd imagine.

Will make Bosnia seem like a walk in the park i suspect.

So,with the Russian economy tanking big-time and the Russian body-bags piling up in the trucks going back to Russia,let's see how long the Russian nationalistic worship for Putler lasts. .

Agree.

It is a bit odd to have so many Putler admirers among the Ukraine side
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 07, 2014, 12:10:48 PM
Awww Shucks. More bad news!   :clapping:


EUR/RUB: 60,08. Доходил уже до 60.39
USD/RUB: 48,35. Доходил уже до 48.60
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Isthmus on November 07, 2014, 01:47:25 PM
I wonder how the NATO troops training of the Ukrainian armed forces in western Ukraine is coming along ?

I suspect the Russians and their separatist mates are gonna have a huge shock if they try and advance further into Ukraine...and will probably also have real problems trying to hold the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

Well-trained Ukrainian troops who are very pissed-off with Russia fighting Russian conscripts and mercenaries ..i'm not so convinced by the doom mongers on here about Ukraine's chances in this war.

None of us know if any advanced weapons have been supplied to Ukraine by NATO  countries.

How many of the armchair experts on here would want to face angry Ukrainians on the field of battle or in the war-torn cities ?

Ukrainians are a merciless bunch...especially when they're fighting for their families,their homes,their land i'd imagine.

Will make Bosnia seem like a walk in the park i suspect.

So,with the Russian economy tanking big-time and the Russian body-bags piling up in the trucks going back to Russia,let's see how long the Russian nationalistic worship for Putler lasts. .

Agree with all of the above.

Psychology and motivation in warfare is never to be underestimated.  Ukrainians are fighting for the existence of their State as a functional State. Their nation doesn't have a future unless they win. The Ukies holding Donetsk Airport all understand this and that is why the Kremlin's Proxy Forces are breaking their teeth there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 07, 2014, 05:04:54 PM
Awww Shucks. More bad news!   :clapping:


EUR/RUB: 60,08. Доходил уже до 60.39
USD/RUB: 48,35. Доходил уже до 48.60

Looks like those sanctions will have the Kremlin's attention now, eh? Now's the time to ratchet it up a notch as well...

Dollar Shortages Spread Amid Russian Ruble Collapse

..."Rising demand for foreign currency meant U.S. dollars and euros were unavailable at some Russian banks and exchange points Friday as the ruble went into free fall during morning trading.

The Russian currency nosedived 3.8 percent against the dollar after markets opened, hitting a historical nadir of 48.64 against the greenback and shooting past the 60 rubles to the euro mark for the first time.

Analysts warned that Russia was standing on the verge of a full blown currency crisis amid signs of panic in the population, where memories of a plummeting ruble and runaway inflation during the 1998 default are never far away.

The dramatic rout meant the ruble had lost over 10 percent against the dollar in the 48 hours after the Central Bank announced Wednesday that it was capping market interventions to defend the ruble at $350 million a day.

While the ruble later bounced back, gaining 6 percent by mid afternoon on expectations that the Central Bank would be forced to act, the currency was still down 30 kopeks in the early evening, trading at just under 47 versus the dollar.

Physical Shortages

Russian retail banks reported a surge in demand for foreign currency on Thursday and Friday.

"The excess demand is 3-4 times more than the standard level of foreign currency purchased by individuals," VTB 24, the retail arm of Russia's second biggest banking group, told the TASS news agency Friday.

Attempting to exchange rubles for dollars at a VTB 24 in downtown Moscow at about 2 p.m. on Friday, a Moscow Times reporter was told that the branch had ran out of dollars, but was expecting additional shipments the following day.


At a nearby Sberbank, dollars were still being sold but the branch was flooded with so many customers looking to exchange currency that the ticket-based waiting system had stopped working."...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/dollar-shortages-spread-amid-russian-ruble-collapse/510803.html

I find it both ironic and amusing that with all the dis' talk about the US currency coming from inside Russia and Putin supporters that the first foreign currency the Russian population puts a run on to protect their own bank accounts is the US Greenback.   

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 07, 2014, 05:11:06 PM

Has The Russian Central Bank Thrown In The Towel?
         
The Central Bank of Russia (CBR) seems to have decided that it can’t beat the markets. On Wednesday November 5th, it announced an end to unlimited currency support interventions. It said it would spend a maximum $350m per day smoothing out fluctuations as the ruble approached the edge of a trading band. Once that limit was reached, the ruble would be allowed to fall out of the band. The final sentence of the CBR’s press release spells it out:


“As a result of the implementation of this decision, the ruble exchange rate will be determined predominantly by the market factors.

Game, set and match to the markets, apparently.

But wait. This game is by no means over. In my previous post, I said that the way for the central bank to remain in the game was to play it aggressively. Defensive strategies do not work when there are finite resources, since they simply attract speculative attacks. The CBR understands this:


“…the abandonment of unlimited foreign exchange interventions in the borders of the operational band will hamper prerequisites for speculative strategies against the ruble.

There is much less profit to be made from speculative attacks when the target refuses to defend against them. It’s a form of passive resistance, if you like.

Allowing the ruble to fall freely is an aggressive strategy on the part of the Russian central bank. And it is having the desired effect. Since the CBR’s announcement, the ruble has been in free fall, dropping by 11% in a week – and market players are panicking. Reuters reports that there are desperate calls for the central bank to intervene:


““This is full-blown panic, with signs of a self-fulfilling currency crisis,” Dmitry Polevoy, chief Russia economist at ING Bank in Moscow, said in a note. “At such times, the central bank should intervene, after all if this isn’t a risk to financial stability, then what is?”

The Russian official news agency ITAR-TASS reports that Russian households are converting rubles to other currencies:


“Russia’s two largest retail banks Sberbank  and VTB-24 admitted households’ increased demand for foreign currency over the past week. Specifically, VTB-24 said the demand had soared by 3-4 times, adding it had set aside foreign currency cash reserves in advance.




This is a bad sign. Increased domestic FX conversions are a serious risk factor for financial stability, since domestic banks can be bankrupted by excessive demand for FX liquidity. They are also a risk factor for hyperinflation.

But the CBR foresaw this:


“At the same time, in case of financial stability threats, the Bank of Russia will be ready to carry out additional interventions in the domestic foreign exchange market.

The CBR has no intention of allowing the ruble’s fall to cause a financial crisis. It will provide support on an ad hoc basis to calm panic and ease distress in domestic markets. Indeed it already seems to be doing so:

So the CBR has certainly not thrown in the towel. It has simply changed its game strategy. Now, far from attacking it, market players – both international and domestic – are looking to it for support. Game, set and match to the CBR.

Mind you, the CBR could still be defeated by the combination of falling oil prices and rising inflation. The possibility of domestic economic collapse is real, and there is little the CBR can do about it: if it raises rates to choke off inflation it weakens the economy further, but if it cuts rates to stimulate growth it risks an inflationary spiral. As in all countries, the fate of the domestic economy ultimately rests in the hands of politicians, not the central bank.

UPDATE: It’s not “game, set and match” to the CBR just yet. The ruble is falling again. It’s “game on”.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2014/11/07/has-the-russian-central-bank-thrown-in-the-towel/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 05:34:54 PM
In the currency wars, Ukraine is kicking Russian butt but hey sanctions don't work, right?  Win win?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 07, 2014, 06:31:21 PM
The p/$ hit 48.5 in the morning then moved down to 46.5 and held steady there for the day.   Maybe the bottom has been hit.   The ruble can fall only so far with huge and steady dollar denominated revenues from oil sales. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 07, 2014, 06:50:45 PM
I only wish I have the technical expertise to play in the FX market. With the way the Rouble has been swinging lately there's gotta be some serious profit opportunities.

I wonder if the majority of the market speculators on the Rouble are western ledge fund managers or are they actual Russian investors trying to profit from the demise of the Rouble.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 06:56:35 PM
I only wish I have the technical expertise to play in the FX market. With the way the Rouble has been swinging lately there's gotta be some serious profit opportunities.

I wonder if the majority of the market speculators on the Rouble are western ledge fund managers or are they actual Russian investors trying to profit from the demise of the Rouble.

What is that?  Either way I am sure the Putin propaganda machine will spin it as America's fault.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 07:09:47 PM
The p/$ hit 48.5 in the morning then moved down to 46.5 and held steady there for the day.   Maybe the bottom has been hit.   The ruble can fall only so far with huge and steady dollar denominated revenues from oil sales.

Yet oil prices continue to drop.  How far away do you think Russia is from a repeat of 1998?

If the ruble continues to fall, and the price of oil continues to fall -- these two may just be what the Doctor ordered to save Ukraine from total Russian invasion.  Afterall it's simply not the same as 1956 when the Soviet Union could do what they wanted in Eastern Europe.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 07, 2014, 07:34:55 PM
  After all it's simply not the same as 1956 when the Soviet Union could do what they wanted in Eastern Europe.

I'm not so sure about that.  The  west seems to have no stomach for real resistance.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 07:54:59 PM
I'm not so sure about that.  The  west seems to have no stomach for real resistance.

I'm not referring to that.  I am referring to the fact that the Russian economy is now so intertwined with the Worlds economy.  It seems that the sanctions coupled with low oil prices might cause a total economic collapse in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 07, 2014, 08:17:01 PM
So you are reversing yourself.  Turns out sanctions work after all.  Win win
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 08:28:45 PM
So you are reversing yourself.  Turns out sanctions work after all.  Win win

I am not reversing my opinion.  I still agree with Billy's analysis, which is that the sanctions are making Putin mad and increasing his popularity in Russia.  If the sanctions stop Putin from an all out invasion of Ukraine I will be surprised but very happy.

And until the West gives Ukraine some proper weapons this thing is far from over.  Even if Russia does not invade the separatists are firmly entrenched in Donetsk and Lugansk and all indications are that Russia has been resupplying them.  Do you deny that?  Do you deny that just prior to the cease-fire the Russians had routed the Ukrainians?  Do you deny that the Russians have far better weapons at their disposal?  Do you deny that Russia could easily have air-superiority over Ukraine if they chose to?

Do you also deny that most of the remaining people in those areas are more loyal to Russia than they are to Ukraine?

I'm sure in your fantasy world it's better to just deny reality and claim you are pro-Ukraine and I'm not because I dare to engage in critical thinking.  You are closer to the Stalinists then you realize.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 07, 2014, 08:53:18 PM
Quote
Do you also deny that most of the remaining people in those areas are more loyal to Russia than they are to Ukraine?


I would deny that.  Most don't have the means to leave, and most just want the war to stop. 


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 07, 2014, 09:08:14 PM
I am not reversing my opinion.  I still agree with Billy's analysis, which is that the sanctions are making Putin mad and increasing his popularity in Russia.  If the sanctions stop Putin from an all out invasion of Ukraine I will be surprised but very happy.

And until the West gives Ukraine some proper weapons this thing is far from over.  Even if Russia does not invade the separatists are firmly entrenched in Donetsk and Lugansk and all indications are that Russia has been resupplying them.  Do you deny that?  Do you deny that just prior to the cease-fire the Russians had routed the Ukrainians?  Do you deny that the Russians have far better weapons at their disposal?  Do you deny that Russia could easily have air-superiority over Ukraine if they chose to?

Do you also deny that most of the remaining people in those areas are more loyal to Russia than they are to Ukraine?

I'm sure in your fantasy world it's better to just deny reality and claim you are pro-Ukraine and I'm not because I dare to engage in critical thinking.  You are closer to the Stalinists then you realize.

I have to disagree a little with your conclusions.  Particularly about the sanctions.  In the beginning I did not have any confidence they would have any affect.  While Putin publicly states that they are simply an annoyance, there is a lot of evidence they are having serious affects.  In fact, if they are ratcheted up they may well bring Russia to it's knees IMO.  It is currently nearly causing a currency collapse in Russia.  The public is converting to stronger currencies to the point that the banks are running out of them.  Another clue as to the affect of the sanctions is the response of many of the officials in the Kremlin.  They are bitching about them daily and making a big issue of it.  Putin can blow it off, but the rest of the government seems to be in near panic state and is getting into the news almost daily.

The silliness of the idea of Putin starting a nuclear war over Ukraine is just that....silly.  He is not going to risk the whole of Russia over Ukraine.  He did not have it before, and surely he is smart enough to realize that it would not be worth the costs.

Does anyone remember the Gulf War and how the coalition took out the military in rather short order?  First, a few planes with anti-radiation missiles go in and take out all the radar sites.  Anyone of them turned on and........poof.  No more ground fire at aircraft!  Next some close air support go in and take out the tanks, artillery, mortars, and terrorist camps.  The Ukrainians can clean up on the ground as the terrorists scramble for the border with good old Russia.

If Putin commits aircraft to the fight, he knows that the entire west will probably come to Ukraine's defense.   He would be stupid to do so.   Not to mention that at this stage every stinking ship he has in the region will become good target practice for the allies (including those in Sevastopol).

The only difficult issue remaining would be the terrorists that are holed up in the cities.  Unfortunately any that are left will have to be routed out with Ukraine troops.  I would think at this point they would be demoralized to the point of fleeing anyway.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 09:31:21 PM
If Putin commits aircraft to the fight, he knows that the entire west will probably come to Ukraine's defense.   He would be stupid to do so.   Not to mention that at this stage every stinking ship he has in the region will become good target practice for the allies (including those in Sevastopol).

I think this is wishful thinking although there may have been some confidential communications along this line from Washington DC and Europe that we don't know about.

Yes the sanctions are doing some damage, but as Doll and others have said, Russians are accustomed to hard times.  No I don't think Putin will use Nuclear weapons, but now that his economy is boxing him into a corner, there is a good chance he will indeed invade Ukraine in order to make his supporters happy.  That is the problem of the sanctions working well -- they make him decide to go ahead with it, because he knows if he doesn't then his time of being in power in Russia may quickly come to an end.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see what develops.  Even if he remains in power and does not commit to a full-scale invasion of Ukraine I don't think there is much doubt that he has now created a "frozen conflict" in the areas in question which will likely be there for many years to come.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 09:39:54 PM

I would deny that.  Most don't have the means to leave, and most just want the war to stop.

You said yourself that the perception of millions was that the events of Maidan did not represent their wishes.  If you watch the video posted by JohnDearGreen (vice news, Simon Ostrovsky) it's clear that the lady he interviews at the remains of the Museum has a perception that Donbass was always closer to the Russian Empire and then the USSR, and that W. Ukraine wanted to be closer to Europe.  It's clear that she believes what she is saying.  Perception is reality in most of the World.  What people perceive to be true for them, is what they perceive reality to be.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 07, 2014, 09:42:42 PM
I think this is wishful thinking although there may have been some confidential communications along this line from Washington DC and Europe that we don't know about.

Yes the sanctions are doing some damage, but as Doll and others have said, Russians are accustomed to hard times.  No I don't think Putin will use Nuclear weapons, but now that his economy is boxing him into a corner, there is a good chance he will indeed invade Ukraine in order to make his supporters happy.  That is the problem of the sanctions working well -- they make him decide to go ahead with it, because he knows if he doesn't then his time of being in power in Russia may quickly come to an end.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see what develops.  Even if he remains in power and does not commit to a full-scale invasion of Ukraine I don't think there is much doubt that he has now created a "frozen conflict" in the areas in question which will likely be there for many years to come.

Generally agree, however I would take with a grain of salt what Doll says.   While Russians have a history of enduring hardships in the past, most of what I read tells me that they have been getting used to a higher standard of living than those days.  I would suspect that a decline in their standard of living would have a similar reaction as the USA reducing welfare benefits to that crowd.   ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 07, 2014, 09:52:27 PM
You said yourself that the perception of millions was that the events of Maidan did not represent their wishes.  If you watch the video posted by JohnDearGreen (vice news, Simon Ostrovsky) it's clear that the lady he interviews at the remains of the Museum has a perception that Donbass was always closer to the Russian Empire and then the USSR, and that W. Ukraine wanted to be closer to Europe.  It's clear that she believes what she is saying.  Perception is reality in most of the World.  What people perceive to be true for them, is what they perceive reality to be.

True, however I did not get the sense from any of the women that they were radically pro-Russian.  The feeling I got from the interviews was they they just want the fighting to stop.  In fact, none of them came across to me as being particularly anti-Kiev.  It's natural that they lived in a more Russian culture and language and feel more comfortable in that environment.

It was funny when one of the shopkeepers was asked about closing up shop and going home...... her response "Give me the money and I will close up and go home".     ;D

One of the points that stuck out in my mind were the comments about Kiev outlawing the Russian language.  This women was still very angered by this action.  Clearly this was the most stupid mistake of the new Kiev government!  In fact, I think the new leadership should be reaching out much more to heal those wounds.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 07, 2014, 09:56:59 PM
Quote
Generally agree, however I would take with a grain of salt what Doll says.   While Russians have a history of enduring hardships in the past, most of what I read tells me that they have been getting used to a higher standard of living than those days.  I would suspect that a decline in their standard of living would have a similar reaction as the USA reducing welfare benefits to that crowd.   



I disagree.  I think Doll is absolutely spot on in her assessment. 


Quote
One of the points that stuck out in my mind were the comments about Kiev outlawing the Russian language.  This women was still very angered by this action.  Clearly this was the most stupid mistake of the new Kiev government!  In fact, I think the new leadership should be reaching out much more to heal those wounds.



Russian was never outlawed.  Its road to official language status was revised.


I think that would have been reversed in any event, to conform to EU standards.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 07, 2014, 10:00:42 PM
True, however I did not get the sense from any of the women that they were radically pro-Russian.  The feeling I got from the interviews was they they just want the fighting to stop.  In fact, none of them came across to me as being particularly anti-Kiev.  It's natural that they lived in a more Russian culture and language and feel more comfortable in that environment.

It was funny when one of the shopkeepers was asked about closing up shop and going home...... her response "Give me the money and I will close up and go home".     ;D

One of the points that stuck out in my mind were the comments about Kiev outlawing the Russian language.  This women was still very angered by this action.  Clearly this was the most stupid mistake of the new Kiev government!  In fact, I think the new leadership should be reaching out much more to heal those wounds.

I noticed that too about her remarks about Russian language.  Whether it's true or not (I don't believe it's true after reading Stirlitz's comments) is not the point.  The point is that she perceives it to be true.  She also perceived that there was not a middle ground.  Clearly Putin and Russia have manipulated opinions.  Yet perception is reality.  Also what she perceives is that Ukrainian forces are deliberately shelling them.  The other women said the shelling has been daily, even during the ceasefire.  You must admit there has been very limited Western reporting about this.  The people there apparently feel that the government in Kiev is trying to kill them.  How would you or I feel if we were stuck there?  I agree they all want the fighting to stop.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 07, 2014, 10:04:16 PM


Russian was never outlawed.  Its road to official language status was revised.


I think that would have been reversed in any event, to conform to EU standards.


I am aware of that and agree with you.  However the perception of the Russian speakers is that it was outlawed.  They probably do not even know today the truth.  I can understand their reaction.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 08, 2014, 02:00:42 AM
I am aware of that and agree with you.  However the perception of the Russian speakers is that it was outlawed.  They probably do not even know today the truth.  I can understand their reaction.

The problem I have with this being continually repeated is it gives it credence to something that is simply incorrect.
The reality is--the whole issue was trumped up by those with an  agenda that sort to create discontent.
Even today-many in the east are clueless as to who is attacking them.
Never forget-- a majot tenant of Russian propaganda is to cause confusion and not let people know the reality.
When you hear people in the east interviewed--it is abundantly clear that they are bye and large clueless as to what is going on.That is also evident with those that fled to Russia-- only having access to Russian lies and propaganda.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 08, 2014, 04:56:24 AM
AC, its good that you agree with me that sanctions are working.  Your failure to address Calimissile's assessment of Western support for Ukraine in the face of further escalation and your failure to properly assessment of popular sentiment in the occupied territories leads one to think you're ashamed of your earlier confused ramblings.  A simple retraction and apology would suffice, but I understand your pride is on the line.

Ukraine is free.  They will bear any burden, support any friend and pay any price to defend that freedom.  Would that we would demonstrate such a commitment.  If the words expressed here are any reflection of Western sentiment, it is easy to see, why such a commitment is not forthcoming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 08, 2014, 08:00:14 AM
AC, its good that you agree with me that sanctions are working.  Your failure to address Calimissile's assessment of Western support for Ukraine in the face of further escalation and your failure to properly assessment of popular sentiment in the occupied territories leads one to think you're ashamed of your earlier confused ramblings.

This, coming from you.

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 08, 2014, 10:53:13 AM
This report seems to be quite a stretch.. :rolleyes:

Russian expert: The dollar will be worth 200 rubles
Yesterday, 16:27 2117

 All the worst yet to come Managing Director of the investment company Finam Management Solabuto Nicholas said that by March the dollar will cost about 200 rubles. TOPICExpert: The Flight of the Russian currency has become panicky nature Moscow, November 07 (New Region, Vasilisa Egorova) - Managing Director of the investment company Finam Management Nicholas Solabuto TV channel Rain said that by March the dollar will cost about 200 rubles. According Solabuto, the reason for the fall of the ruble will become cheaper oil and sanctions, because of which it is necessary to pay the debts of Russia, who took us in the West. "All of the worst we have to survive until the New Year. After the New Year will begin recovery of the economy. But this is the most terrible, really terrible, we assume that the dollar will stabilize somewhere in the region of 200 rubles, "- said the director of Finam

http://nr2.com.ua/News/world_and_russia/Rossiyskiy-ekspert-Dollar-budet-stoit-200-rubley-84152.html
© HP2
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 08, 2014, 04:39:44 PM
Better get use to the idea of carrying your roubles around in a wheelbarrow!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 08, 2014, 07:24:57 PM
Ukraine is a great country.  Getting better everyday.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 08, 2014, 09:19:06 PM
Ukraine is a great country.

We can certainly agree on this.  You should read the George Soros article coming out this month.  Ukraine is far more important to the rest of the World than ISIS, IMO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 10, 2014, 11:52:33 AM
Moscow shrouded in noxious gas

Maybe because Putin gave a speech?    :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 Or


Residents of parts of the Russian capital Moscow have been urged by the emergencies ministry to stay indoors because of a noxious gas that is spreading through the city.

The source of the gas is unclear - no accidents have been reported at any of Moscow's chemical factories.

Media reports said that the gas was hydrogen sulphide, which can be highly toxic and smells like rotten eggs.

It has been smelt in central, eastern and south-eastern parts of the city.

The gas was also detected in the capital's main shopping areas and around the parliament building, reports said.

Russia's emergencies ministry blamed the problem on a failure at a Moscow oil refinery, Interfax reported. However, the refinery's owner Gazprom Neft said there had been no accident and the levels of hydrogen sulphide at the plant were not excessive.

An earlier report suggested that the foul-smelling gas was coming from a network of facilities treating urban wastewater.

Natalya Gorelova, a 25-year-old resident of north-west Moscow, told the BBC she first noticed the gas on her way to her work in the south-west of the city during the morning.

"I have smelt the toxic gas all day. I'm at home now and I closed the windows. We are sitting at home, but I have a headache."

Exposure even to low concentrations of hydrogen sulphide can lead to headaches, dizziness and nausea, experts say.

"Since 11:00 this morning I have sensed a bad smell everywhere I go," one Muscovite tweeted, "whether at home, in the street or at work. "I thought I was getting sick and having [a] hallucination."

Weather experts quoted in the Russian media say that the effects of the gas have been made worse because the current conditions in Moscow are "not conducive to the rapid dispersion of pollutants in the air".


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29990375
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 13, 2014, 09:55:25 AM
More "Cargo 200" trucks crossing the border.

Ukraine crisis: Russian 'Cargo 200' crossed border - OSCE

..."Vehicles apparently used to transport soldiers' bodies have been seen crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border, monitors from Europe's security body have said.

The OSCE monitors said in one case a vehicle marked "Cargo 200" - Russia's military code for soldiers killed in action - crossed from Russia into Ukraine on Tuesday and later returned."...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30039004

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on November 13, 2014, 11:05:26 AM
Ahhh well,at least plenty of Russian troops will have been having free holidays in Ukraine.

They can't pay for their vacations if they're dead.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 13, 2014, 11:46:17 AM

The boys threatened to take away the military tickets and tokens.

Conscripts refused to go into battle in Luhansk  At the border with Ukraine Rostov region of Russia conscripts refused to fight in the Donbas contract.

This was stated by the executive secretary of the "Union of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" Valentina Melnikova.

She said that one soldier lieutenant colonels gathered at the test site at Rostov and required them to sign contracts and to go to the East of Ukraine to participate in the fighting, but the boys refused.

"That's recruits there (in Rostov - Ed.) Opposed the signing of the contract as a lieutenant colonel, a goat named Medynskyy on the ground at Rostov told them that" you are everything I sign a contract, I have taken out military tickets, pick up chips and we send you to Lugansk "And the guys protested," - said in an interview Melnikov Russian newspaper " Novaya Gazeta ".

Such "rebels" among Russian conscripts counted 250 families of five of them immediately complained to the "Union of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" and the boys were not sent to war.

"We have complained that illegally forced to sign a contract. I got a good answer Chief of the Defence Ministry personnel that commanders to sign any contracts are not eligible. Therefore, all 250 contracts are not signed," - summed up the human rights activist Melnikov.

As previously reported, "Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" was named the number of dead Russian soldiers in battles in the Donbas.

http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rostovi-250-prizovnikiv-zbuntuvalisya-proti-nakazu-voyuvati-v-lugansku-pravozahisnicya-391487.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 13, 2014, 02:09:02 PM
And according to RT even Switzerland's joining the civilized world by upholding the EU's sanctions (something they don't normally do).

Switzerland confirms latest EU sanctions against Russia

..."Switzerland has stepped up restrictions against Russia and signed up to the latest package of EU sanctions against the country’s largest banks and major oil companies.

"In view of the situation in Ukraine, and following decisions taken by the EU, the Federal Council today decided to adopt further measures to prevent the circumvention of international sanctions," the Swiss Federal Council said in a statement on Wednesday.

Switzerland hasn’t formally joined the EU sanctions, but supports the key points. It has tightened up the restrictive measures on five Russian banks and six companies that include the country’s biggest lenders Sberbank and VTB, as well as oil majors Rosneft and Gazprom Neft."...

http://rt.com/business/205059-switzerland-joins-sanctions-russia/

I got a kick out of a comment posted responding to this article...

"Good idea, and if they did that the burning remnants of Russia's economy would keep Europe nice and warm"

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 15, 2014, 09:39:02 AM
Well, if the little guy didn't get the message before, he's got it now...

Stephen Harper at G20 tells Vladimir Putin to 'get out of Ukraine'

Annual summit dominated by Western anger towards Putin

..."Stephen Harper had a showdown with Vladimir Putin on Saturday, telling the Russian leader to "get out of Ukraine" in a dustup at the Group of 20 summit in Australia.

Harper's spokesman, Jason MacDonald, said the prime minister was speaking to a group of G20 leaders at a private leaders' retreat on Saturday morning when Putin approached and extended his hand.

MacDonald said Harper told Putin: "I guess I'll shake your hand but I have only one thing to say to you: You need to get out of Ukraine."...

..."According to MacDonald, Putin did not respond positively. He didn't provide further details."...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/stephen-harper-at-g20-tells-vladimir-putin-to-get-out-of-ukraine-1.2836382

“More sanctions? I'm off”: Putin leaves G20 early after being blasted over Ukraine

..."Russian President Vladimir Putin has decided to wave goodbye to his fellow G20 summit attendees a day early, after they criticised Russia's involvement in Ukraine and threatened to impose more sanctions on Moscow.

Western leaders from both Europe and North America berated Russia for its part in the recent escalation of military activity in Ukraine, where 4,000 lives have been claimed since the conflict began.

The summit currently taking place in Brisbane, Australia, is supposed to last for two days, but Putin has decided to skip a working session on Sunday and bring forward his departure. Speaking to Reuters, a member of his delegation said this was because he needed to attend meetings in Moscow."...

http://www.cityam.com/1416066568/more-sanctions-im-putin-leaves-g20-early-after-being-blasted-over-ukraine

Putin Will Leave G20 Summit Early After West Blasts Moscow Over Ukraine

..."Russian President Vladimir Putin plans to leave the G20 summit early after Western leaders lambasted him Saturday over the crisis in Ukraine and threatened further sanctions."...

http://time.com/3587185/putin-g20-russia-ukraine/

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 15, 2014, 10:28:07 AM
Ask Harper if he wants to be President.  The process can't be anymore illegal than what we have right now . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 15, 2014, 02:02:50 PM

The summit currently taking place in Brisbane, Australia, is supposed to last for two days, but Putin has decided to skip a working session on Sunday and bring forward his departure. Speaking to Reuters, a member of his delegation said this was because he needed to attend meetings in Moscow."...

http://www.cityam.com/1416066568/more-sanctions-im-putin-leaves-g20-early-after-being-blasted-over-ukraine


He left early because he's accustomed to people fawning all over him, not confronting him about being the dishonest little weasel that he is.  Bravo to Harper!   :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 15, 2014, 02:33:48 PM
He left early because he's accustomed to people fawning all over him, not confronting him about being the dishonest little weasel that he is.  Bravo to Harper!   :clapping:

Poor little boy got shunned.       :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 15, 2014, 09:06:47 PM
Why Russia May Not Be Able To Save The Ruble
The Economist 11/15/2014 BUSINESS INSIDER


Every central banker knows the importance of trust. In a world of fiat currencies--bank notes backed by nothing other than more bank notes--shoppers and firms must have confidence that cash will retain its value in order to hold it.

That trust is being tested in Russia, where the rouble has fallen 23% against the dollar in the past three months.

Such a plunge inevitably brings inflation in the form of more expensive imports, a worry given that consumer prices in Russia are already rising at over 8% a year. Yet in recent weeks there have been creeping signs of something scarier. Faced with a clamour for dollars, Russia's banks have raised the rates they pay on dollar deposits to try to suck some in. Demand for safety-deposit boxes is up, suggesting customers are hoarding foreign currency.

The head of the Central Bank of Russia, Elvira Nabiullina, is struggling to nip this trend in the bud. First, on November 5th, she hiked interest rates, to 9.5%. That means that rouble deposits earn far more than dollar ones, which should make the currency more attractive. Next, she attempted to deter bets against the rouble by replacing the central bank's puny and predictable sale of $350m a day in its defence with the threat of far bigger ad hoc interventions. Finally, she crimped commercial banks' access to roubles to limit their ability to speculate against the currency.

Ms Nabiullina needed to be bold. The rouble's slide has deep causes, none of which will go away. The first is oil. In the first half of 2014 Russia's exports brought in $255 billion, with 68% of that coming from sales of oil and natural gas. During that period oil prices averaged $109 a barrel; today they are close to $80. Applying a proportional cut to Russia's energy exports would slash revenues by over $40 billion, more than wiping out Russia's current-account surplus.

In most economies a big depreciation boosts demand for local products: as foreign goods get pricier shoppers pick domestic alternatives. But Russia's recent history makes such substitution difficult. The transition from Soviet subsidies to market-based agriculture was not a smooth one: production of beef, pork and poultry in Russia and Ukraine fell from almost 13m tonnes in 1991 to just 5m in 2001.

Although there have been some recent improvements (notably in grain production), Russian farming is still hugely inefficient. The result is that many imports--meat, milk, eggs--have few domestic substitutes. Wholesalers that import these goods need dollars to buy them, putting pressure on the rouble.

There are other reasons to sell roubles and buy dollars. Across the economy there is over $120 billion in external debt maturing in the next year according to central bank data. Roughly a third of this is owed by banks, and the remaining two-thirds by other firms. Some of these outfits--notably Russia's energy giants--have dollar revenues.

A big chunk of the remainder, including the banks, do not. Since sanctions prevent many Russian companies from borrowing abroad to refinance these dollar debts, this creates sustained demand for dollars. With chunky repayments due in December, there could be another rouble rout before the end of the year.

The dependence on Western markets and currencies pains Vladimir Putin, Russia's president. On November 10th he signed a deal with Xi Jinping, his Chinese counterpart, that will see Russia export gas from Siberia to China via new pipelines. The deal provides a huge new source of demand, and could see China replace Europe as Russia's main export market. In addition, an agreement to start trading in yuan rather than dollars will cut demand for America's currency.

But the pipelines will take years to be built and financing for the project has yet to be secured. In the meantime Russia may have to cope with low oil and gas prices for years.

On November 12th a new set of forecasts from the Energy Information Administration, an American government agency, said that oil prices are likely to average $83 a barrel in 2015. On the optimistic assumption that the price will rise to $90 a barrel, Ms Nabiullina still forecasts zero growth and 8% inflation for 2015. Russia's rouble crisis looks far from over


http://www.businessinsider.com/why-russia-may-not-be-able-to-save-the-ruble-2014-11#ixzz3JCKJKtaj
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 16, 2014, 08:28:57 AM
We should all have learned by now when the Kremlin denies something, the opposite fact is likely to be true...
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-president-denies-fled-summit-pressure-101813471.html

"On Monday I must go to work. I hope to have four or five hours to sleep," Putin said shortly before leaving Brisbane.

Looks like the little man can't do without his beauty nap!
This won't be helping with his macho man image if losing a day's sleep is going to affect him that much.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 16, 2014, 11:21:41 PM
France says they are not going to deliver the Mistral warships because Russia has violated the terms of the Minsk ceasefire:

http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/11/16/france_not_to_cow_to_russias_demands_to_deliver_mistrals_540957
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 16, 2014, 11:31:09 PM
SBU: 7,500 Russian troops and 25,000 local rebels fighting in Donbas

There are 7,500 Russian regular troops in the rebel-controlled territories of Donbas, adviser to Ukraine security service chief, Markian Lubkivsky, said Nov. 13, speaking on 1+1 Kanal TV late night.
 
 “There are 10 battalion tactical groups of the Russian army totaling 7,500,” he said.

 The number of local separatists’ forces is about 25,000, he confirmed.

The operations of Russian reconnaissance groups all over Ukraine have intensified, he said, with SBU effectively exposing and liquidating them, Lubkivsky said.


 :devilish:

http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/11/14/sbu_7500_russian_troops_and_25000_local_rebels_fighting_in_donbas_540449
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 17, 2014, 12:43:34 PM
Weak ruble puts Moscow development projects on hold:


excerpt
At least two Chinese construction and development projects in Moscow were reportedly postponed last week as the depreciation of the ruble, which has fallen over 30 percent to the dollar since the beginning of the year, hit the firms' cost estimates.

On Wednesday, City Hall said Chinese companies that had earlier planned to build one of the Moscow metro lines were putting the project on hold due to the ruble's extremely volatile exchange rate.

In May city authorities signed an agreement with China Railway Construction Corporation and China International Fund to build a line of the Moscow metro in the city's southwestern region, a would-be segment of the gigantic second metro ring to become operational by 2020.

The line's estimated cost was set at $2 billion. In addition to building the metro, the Chinese firms would have the option to develop the estimated 2 million square meters around the six-future metro stations.

But the project so far has been postponed due to "the strengthening dollar," Marat Khusnullin, deputy Moscow mayor in charge of construction and development, said Saturday.

"Our preliminary agreement with Chinese investors was that the payment for the metro construction would be in dollars, but that currency has strengthened and we are now re-calculating the costs and have so far agreed to pay out in yuan," Khusnullin said.

Other Chinese investors last week had more salt rubbed in the wound by deciding against investment in one more large project: the redevelopment of the vast territory of the historic ZiL auto factory, news reports said.


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/511300.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 17, 2014, 01:40:07 PM
And the obligatory expulsion of diplomats has now started :rolleyes: ...

Poland, Russia expel diplomats in tit-for-tat spying scandal

..."WARSAW, Poland -- Russian and Polish officials confirmed Monday that they have carried out tit-for-tat diplomatic expulsions in an espionage affair that highlights intensified efforts by Moscow to penetrate NATO counties and a new determination by the West to fight back.

As tensions grow over Russia's military incursions in Ukraine, espionage also appears to be returning to Cold War levels. Russia and several NATO members have been accusing each other of stepped up spying, with diplomats allegedly playing key roles in the activity.

Russia's Foreign Ministry said that Polish authorities took the "unfriendly and unwarranted step" of expelling some of its diplomats -- and that Moscow retaliated by kicking out Polish diplomats.

"In connection with this, the Russian side has undertaken adequate response measures, and a number of Polish diplomats have already left our country because of activities incompatible with their status," the Russian Foreign Ministry said, using diplomatic jargon for spying."...

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/poland-russia-expel-diplomats-in-tit-for-tat-spying-scandal-1.2105337#ixzz3JMNm0Q4r

Russia orders out Polish and German diplomats in tit-for-tat expulsions

..."Russia said on Monday (November 17) that several of its diplomats had been expelled from Poland, and that a number of Polish diplomats had left Russia, after Moscow retaliated against Warsaw. On Saturday, Germany reported that one of its diplomats had ordered to leave the Russian capital, following a German decision to expel a Russian diplomat working in Bonn."...

http://www.euractiv.com/sections/health-consumers/russia-orders-out-polish-and-german-diplomats-tit-tat-expulsions-310065

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 17, 2014, 01:50:45 PM
Atta Boy Vlad!

 Isolate yourself more! :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 03:30:55 PM
Russian satellite photos of the Ukrainian pilot that shot down the Malaysian Airliner.

I guess I was wrong.  :snivel:



Russian military satellite recorded face Ukrainian pilot who shot down the Malaysian Boeing. Recall that the Ukrainian military July 17 was shot down aircraft airline Malaysia Airlines, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Now is not the slightest suspicion that Boeing was hit by the Ukrainian side.


 Despite the poor quality of the picture, it is clearly seen Avenging happy face showing a satellite camera obscene gesture. According to Russian criminologists, passenger liner first gun was fired from a distance of 50 kilometers, and then on the cockpit rocket was fired "air-to-air." The original version of that military pilot just wanted to knock his cap with the captain of the liner and thus make a joke, was not confirmed. Obviously, the Ukrainian punisher deliberately wanted to bring down the plane Malaysian airlines to avenge oil imports by Malaysia at 60% is purchased from Russia.

Currently in Russia into the air terrorism and genocide of Russian criminal case, in which the Ukrainian satellite photo of the pilot will be sent to Interpol.

 


http://novosti-online.info/kiselev-nyus/413-rossiyskiy-sputnik-zafiksiroval-lico-letchika-sbivshego-malaziyskiy-boing.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 03:33:04 PM
And then again... NOT Quite

Fighter jet crash victim Lt. Col. Morris Fontenot Jr., seasoned F-15 pilot, decorated combat veteran

By CHAD CAIN

Staff Writer
 
Friday, August 29, 2014
 (Published in print: Saturday, August 30, 2014)
 
The pilot who died in an F-15C fighter jet crash Wednesday was a seasoned pilot and decorated combat veteran who moved to western Massachusetts earlier this year to join the 104th Fighter Wing.

Officials at the Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield on Friday identified Lt. Col. Morris Fontenot Jr. as the pilot who died from injuries sustained when his plane crashed in the remote mountains of western Virginia on Wednesday.

Fontenot, 41, whose friends and family called him “Moose,” had flown the F-15 for more than 17 years, worked at Barnes as an F-15 instructor pilot and was the full-time wing inspector. With more than 2,300 flight hours, Fontenot was a decorated combat veteran who earned many medals and awards in recognition of his service.

He lived in Longmeadow with his wife, Kara.

“We all continue to keep the Fontenot family in our thoughts and prayers during this very difficult time,” Col. James Keefe of Northampton, 104th Fighter Wing Commander, said in a statement.

 
   

 
As State Police blocked media representatives from visiting the family’s home on Clairmont Street in Longmeadow Friday afternoon, one of Fontenot’s neighbors said he was saddened by the news.

“When a friend of mine who works at the base told me it was my neighbor, I just said ‘Oh, no,’ ” said Clairmont Street resident Michael Palazzi, a recreational pilot who keeps his four-seat aircraft at the hangar at Westfield-Barnes Airport.

Palazzi said the Fontenots moved in about four months ago and were still settling into the neighborhood. He said he occasionally spoke with “Moose” and his wife in passing, but did not know him that well.

“We talked in the street and I invited him over to use my tools whenever he wanted,” Palazzi said in an interview by cell phone on his way to the airport.

According to records in the Hampden County Registry of Deeds, the Fontenots bought the house in January.

Pilots are a small community and the news of Fontenot’s death hit Palazzi hard.

“We kind of bond together,” Palazzi said. “To hear anybody go down like that is devastating. It’s very disheartening to comprehend the crash.”

A 1996 graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy, Fontenot had most recently served as commander of the 67th Fighter Squadron based in Kadena Air Force Base in Japan. He served as a squadron commander at multiple locations. Following active-duty assignments in Washington, D.C., Japan, Idaho, Florida, Alaska and numerous deployments in the Middle East, Fontenot joined the Massachusetts Air National Guard in February, according to base officials.

Facebook pages of people who either work at or are affiliated with the 104th in Barnes were full of condolences and sympathetic messages after officials identified Fontenot, including one from photographer Scott Bellone who said he had Fontenot’s wife, family and friends in his thoughts and prayers.

Bellone said he took several pictures of Fontenot earlier this summer at Barnes, one in which the fighter pilot flashed a “victory” sign and another in which a bag labeled “Moose” could be seen in the jet behind him. Bellone said he would likely head to the Westfield-Barnes Regional Airport Friday afternoon to be around others.

Reporters Gena Mangiaratti and Eric Goldscheider contributed to this story. Chad Cain can be reached at ccain@gazettenet.com.

http://www.gazettenet.com/home/13336274-95/fighter-jet-crash-victim-lt-col-morris-fontenot-jr-seasoned-f-15-pilot-decorated-combat
   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 18, 2014, 05:03:55 PM
Russian satellite photos of the Ukrainian pilot that shot down the Malaysian Airliner. Russian military satellite recorded face Ukrainian pilot who shot down the Malaysian Boeing. Recall that the Ukrainian military July 17 was shot down aircraft airline Malaysia Airlines, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Now is not the slightest suspicion that Boeing was hit by the Ukrainian side.


 Despite the poor quality of the picture, it is clearly seen Avenging happy face showing a satellite camera obscene gesture. According to Russian criminologists, passenger liner first gun was fired from a distance of 50 kilometers, and then on the cockpit rocket was fired "air-to-air." The original version of that military pilot just wanted to knock his cap with the captain of the liner and thus make a joke, was not confirmed. Obviously, the Ukrainian punisher deliberately wanted to bring down the plane Malaysian airlines to avenge oil imports by Malaysia at 60% is purchased from Russia.

Currently in Russia into the air terrorism and genocide of Russian criminal case, in which the Ukrainian satellite photo of the pilot will be sent to Interpol.

http://novosti-online.info/kiselev-nyus/413-rossiyskiy-sputnik-zafiksiroval-lico-letchika-sbivshego-malaziyskiy-boing.html

This has to be the most amazing fighter jet of all time - the satellite photo was taken from below the aircraft!   :ROFL:  It must also have amazing weaponry if the first gun was fired 50 kilometres from the airliner (and, presumably, hit it!).

How can anyone with the remotest knowledge of aviation (and that includes 95% of the Russian population) possibly believe any of this drivel?  And, seriously, Mike, your second post isn't even needed, even though it's nice to know the real source of the photo.  Just a shame that it was included in an obituary.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 05:47:49 PM
 It took a bit of time to find out whose picture it was.

 I'm sure that the good Col. will appreciate debunking the myth.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 18, 2014, 06:02:35 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-18/putin-said-to-back-crackdown-on-corruption-as-sanctions-bite.html

Is Putler volunteering to walk himself and his cronies into prison and throw away the keys?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 06:07:14 PM
Let the thieving begin!  Huilotin steal more from Krym!

Russia Delivers a New Shock to Crimean Business: Forced Nationalization

Business in Crimea has taken a beating since the peninsula’s annexation by Russia. Crimea’s tourism industry collapsed, and companies were cut off from vital suppliers and customers in Ukraine. Now comes the latest blow: nationalization.

From bakeries to shipyards, Crimea’s Kremlin-backed government is moving aggressively to take over businesses that it deems “inefficient,” strategically important, or friendly to the government in Kiev.

Krymkhleb, the peninsula’s biggest bread and confectionery maker, was nationalized on Nov. 12 by government authorities who accused its owners of laundering money to finance military operations against pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine. A company that supplies flour to Krymkhleb also was taken over.


Also on Nov. 12, authorities seized a resort complex owned by the holding company of Serhiy Taruta, a Ukrainian oligarch who replaced the former pro-Russian governor of Ukraine’s Donetsk region for several months earlier this year. Crimean authorities said the resort was seized because its management had illegally blocked public access to nearby park lands.

Another recent target was Zaliv, Crimea’s largest civilian shipbuilder. In late August, men describing themselves as Crimean “self-defense” forces stormed the company’s headquarters in the port of Kerch and demanded that management hand over control to a Moscow-based company. “Currently, representatives of the legitimate government of [Zaliv] are not allowed to perform their functions,” the company said in a statement on its website, adding that its activities have been “completely blocked.” No official reason was given for the seizure, but Russian authorities have said they want to overhaul Crimea’s shipbuilding industry.


 For much more about the heist read the rest here
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-11-18/crimea-gets-renationalized

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-11-18/crimea-gets-renationalized

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 18, 2014, 10:27:47 PM
The way Moscow is handling the people of Crimea, is a lot like 'fascism', isn't it? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 18, 2014, 11:14:49 PM
Oh Horrors NO!  :wallbash: Didn't you read Parvda.ru? The fascists are in Kyiv not Krym!  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 19, 2014, 12:58:51 AM
Analysis of Putin and Russia, as well as the war in Ukraine:


http://www.bloomberg.com/video/putin-how-savvy-is-he-in-managing-global-perceptions-tDSJoBs2Qha2nmdpWPlCaQ.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 20, 2014, 10:55:46 AM
Wow...no wonder Russian society has a distorted view of their government's  invasion of Ukraine and the corner Putin's painted Russia into.

I was perusing news articles regarding the US VP's visit to Kiev (looking for a glimmer of hope that the US might be changing their policy on supplying defensive weaponry). I looked in on Pravda.ru (English) and my jaw dropped glancing the headlines.

"Russia warns USA against supplies of lethal weapons to Ukraine"

...Ok, not so bad and expected. Then there's these little gems...

"Russia prepares nuclear surprise for NATO"

"Russia takes complete advantage of castrated armed forces of the West"

"Putin stands alone to chaos in Ukraine and US/EU impudence"

"Rosneft offers Putin program of massive sanctions against the West"

"France unwilling to act like USAs poodle with Russia'

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/kremlin/20-11-2014/129090-russia_usa_lethal_weapons-0/

Assuming the Russian version of this pablum is being disseminated to the general population these folks are in for one hell of a shock if/when the balloon does go up.  :rolleyes:

And in other news France has started restricting the Russian crew access to the Mistrals...  :P

Russian Sailors Were Denied Access To The Mistral Warship They're Buying From France

..."Russian sailors were denied access to the Mistal helicopter carrier in Saint-Nazaire shipyard on Monday, according to reports in the French media."...

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-sailors-denied-access-to-mistral-warship-from-france-2014-11#ixzz3JdFabV7K

Brass

Edit: Sorry mods my bad. This should have gone to 'The Propaganda War' thread.


 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 12:10:23 PM
Russian Capital Flight May Hit $130 Billion, Finance Minister Says.   :clapping:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-capital-flight-may-hit-130-billion-finance-minister-says/511340.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 03:29:15 PM
Exclusive: U.S. increasing non-lethal military aid to Ukraine


By Warren Strobel and Patricia Zengerle

WASHINGTON  Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:40pm GMT
 
(Reuters) - The United States plans to increase non-lethal military assistance to Ukraine, including deliveries of the first Humvee vehicles, having decided for now not to provide weapons, U.S. officials said.

The new non-lethal aid Biden will present in Kiev includes Humvees from excess supplies in the Pentagon's inventory, as well as the delivery of previously promised radars that can detect the location of enemy mortars, officials said. They did not specify a dollar value for the assistance.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/11/20/us-ukraine-crisis-usa-exclusive-idUKKCN0J426U20141120

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 03:30:06 PM
Obama adviser: Arms for Ukraine ‘on the table'
By Kristina Wong - 11/19/14 05:42 PM EST

A top Obama adviser said Wednesday that the administration is considering lethal arms for Ukraine and said he believed it could deter Russia from further aggression against the Eastern European nation.


http://thehill.com/policy/defense/224768-obama-adviser-arms-for-ukraine-on-the-table
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 03:35:00 PM
Of course Russia says it's OK for them to add fuel to the fire BUT no one else is allowed to!  :wallbash:  :deadhorse:


Russia warns US not to arm Ukraine forces against pro-Russian rebels 
Moscow hits back at US official’s suggestion as vice-president Joe Biden arrives in Ukrainian capital Kiev for talks

Russia has warned the United States against supplying arms to Ukrainian forces fighting pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, hours before US vice-president Joe Biden was due to arrive in Kiev on Thursday.

Ukraine accused Vladimir Putin of treating its territory like a “playing field“, trying to unleash a full-scale war that would pose a broader threat to Nato countries.

Russian foreign ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in Moscow that a US official’s suggestion Washington should consider sending arms to Ukraine, where pro-Russian rebels have been fighting government forces since April, sent a “very serious signal“.

Lukashevich cautioned against “a major change in policy of the (US) administration in regard to the conflict” in Ukraine.

“That (would be) a direct violation of agreements reached, including (agreements reached) with the participation of the United States,” he said.

The United States backs Kiev in its struggle against the pro-Russian separatists in two eastern regions and has imposed sanctions on Russia over its policies.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Jeffrey Rathke said the United States is “continuing to assess how best to support Ukraine” and “nothing is off the table” including lethal aid. “I think if we’re talking about destabilization, we have to start with Russia’s actions and the separatists that are backed by Russia,” Rathke added.

Moscow supports the separatists but denies it is backing the rebels with arms and troops in a conflict which the United Nations says has killed more than 4,300 since mid-April.

The UN said the death rate in the conflict had grown in the past eight weeks despite a ceasefire underpinned by the Minsk Accord, signed on September 5 by Russia, Ukraine and rebels from the Ukrainian separatist regions of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe’s envoy to a Trilateral Contact Group on Ukraine, cited reports of new military buildup. “The outlook is still bleak,” she said.

Barack Obama’s choice to fill the number two spot at the State Department, Anthony Blinken, told a congressional hearing on Wednesday:

“I believe that, given the serious Russian violations of the agreement that they signed...that one thing that could hopefully get them to think twice and deter them from further action is strengthening the capacity of the Ukrainian forces, including with defensive lethal equipment.“

Blinken said he was sure provision of lethal assistance would come up for discussion during Biden’s visit to Kiev.

Ukrainian prime minister Arseny Yatseniuk said the west and Ukraine had a common interest in preventing a large-scale war.

“Putin’s actions are a threat to everyone, the global order, global peace, a direct threat to the EU and Nato member countries,” he told a news conference.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/20/russia-warns-us-ukraine-forces-russian-rebels
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 20, 2014, 03:39:33 PM


 Sorry mods my bad. This should have gone to 'The Propaganda War' thread.


Problem is that there are to many choices where to place more bad news for Russia!

It is remarkable that Putin has been able to get away with his fiction this long.
 
In the more bad news category-- Russia has been a huge buyer of gold in this last period-- a last

ditch attempt to get rid of the thin air rouble before it becomes completely worthless.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on November 20, 2014, 04:32:10 PM
People vote with their feet.  There are 400 million Slavs.  How many of them took an English class?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 20, 2014, 06:05:54 PM
If I can figure out how to read Russian thru Google translate then they've already done it to too.
 Heck there's even apps for phones to translate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 20, 2014, 09:07:45 PM
I have good news and it needs to be verified. I got it from a tweet by Girkin.

Putin will be having a family reunion here in Boston, ON THANKSGIVING DAY. Petro Poroshenko will join him there for a holiday feast. Putin's ex will also be there with their two daughters, AND, Poroshenko will also bring his family- his wife and four kids. It's been rumoured that Petro will try to communicate the ideas behind the new Ukrainian celebration days of 'freedom' and 'dignity'. If he can help Putin understand these ideals, maybe Putin will reconsider Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and then move on to brandy with eggnog, pumpkin pie, etc. ...Let's pray for an enjoyable Thanksgiving for all!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 12:18:29 AM
I have good news and it needs to be verified. I got it from a tweet by Girkin.

Putin will be having a family reunion here in Boston, ON THANKSGIVING DAY. Petro Poroshenko will join him there for a holiday feast. Putin's ex will also be there with their two daughters, AND, Poroshenko will also bring his family- his wife and four kids. It's been rumoured that Petro will try to communicate the the ideas behind the new Ukrainian celebration days of 'freedom' and 'dignity'. If he can help Putin understand these ideals, maybe Putin will reconsider Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and then move on to brandy with eggnog, pumpkin pie, etc. ...Let's pray for an enjoyable Thanksgiving for all!
is it a joke?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 12:23:12 AM
Hahaha
Putin in Boston with ex and Poroshenko! On thanksgiving!
Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 12:30:20 AM
Photo Guy, please verify
OMG hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 01:09:34 AM
PG, just for you because I am kind today- Putin will NEVER celebrate American national holiday (remember Thanksgiving is ONLY American?), next, in this situation he will NEVER step on the USA soil, nor he will bring his kids here. Poroshenko can do what he wants on his own
So I saved you time for "verifying "
It is the most stupid joke I have ever heard
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 01:12:52 AM
Doll,
the humor was intended!!!!
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
 :clapping:
By the way, the women I know in Ukraine understand 'dry' humor, and satire.
I thought you would too....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 01:14:20 AM
We call it " flat humor"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 21, 2014, 01:16:37 AM
Your lack of humor is 'stupid'   :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 21, 2014, 01:20:18 AM
Your lack of humor is 'stupid'   :crackwhip:
You are right
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 21, 2014, 01:21:32 AM
PG, just for you because I am kind today- Putin will NEVER celebrate American national holiday (remember Thanksgiving is ONLY American?), next, in this situation he will NEVER step on the USA soil, nor he will bring his kids here. Poroshenko can do what he wants on his own
So I saved you time for "verifying "
It is the most stupid joke I have ever heard

I believe this is not true.  From what I understand, it is also celebrated in Canada albiet on a different date.

BTW, is hubby anxious to move to Russia with you when you go back?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 21, 2014, 02:06:38 AM
Better bring back a wheelbarrow to cart those soon-to-be worthless Roubles around...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2014, 02:48:35 AM
В России доллар опустился ниже 46 рублей
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html


ECONOMICS / FINANCE
In Russia, the dollar fell below 46 rubles 21.11.2014 | 10:40

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.
ru.wikipedia.org
Ruble began to go up on Thursday / ru.wikipedia.org
The dollar exchange rate against the ruble on the Moscow Stock Exchange as of 10:10 MSK on Friday fell 20 cents compared to the previous day's close and reached 45.95 rubles., reports Tass.

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.

Thus the cost of currency basket consisting of 0.45 euros and 0.55 dollars, decreased by 21 kopecks to 51.22 rubles.

MICEX Index (MICEX) at the opening of trading on the Moscow Stock Exchange on Friday rose 0.1% to reach 1,531.48 points.

Ruble began to go up on Thursday, supported attempts oil prices adjusted upwards, the lack of negative side of geopolitics, and tax payments and fears of intervention by the CBR.
Read more on the UNIAN: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

 ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2014, 02:51:36 AM
В России доллар опустился ниже 46 рублей
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html


ECONOMICS / FINANCE
In Russia, the dollar fell below 46 rubles 21.11.2014 | 10:40

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.
ru.wikipedia.org
Ruble began to go up on Thursday / ru.wikipedia.org
The dollar exchange rate against the ruble on the Moscow Stock Exchange as of 10:10 MSK on Friday fell 20 cents compared to the previous day's close and reached 45.95 rubles., reports Tass.

The euro exchange rate against the ruble fell by 23 kopecks to 57.66 rubles.

Thus the cost of currency basket consisting of 0.45 euros and 0.55 dollars, decreased by 21 kopecks to 51.22 rubles.

MICEX Index (MICEX) at the opening of trading on the Moscow Stock Exchange on Friday rose 0.1% to reach 1,531.48 points.

Ruble began to go up on Thursday, supported attempts oil prices adjusted upwards, the lack of negative side of geopolitics, and tax payments and fears of intervention by the CBR.
Read more on the UNIAN: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1012126-v-rossii-dollar-opustilsya-nije-46-rubley.html

 ;D

Russia's international reserves for the week decreased by $ 800 million
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011885-mejdunarodnyie-rezervyi-rossii-za-nedelyu-sokratilis-esche-na-800-mln.html
http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011885-mejdunarodnyie-rezervyi-rossii-za-nedelyu-sokratilis-esche-na-800-mln.html

Capital outflows from Russia reached maximum values ​​- this month took $ 28 billion
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011970-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-dostig-maksimalnyih-znacheniy-za-mesyats-ushlo-28-mlrd.html

http://economics.unian.net/finance/1011970-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-dostig-maksimalnyih-znacheniy-za-mesyats-ushlo-28-mlrd.html
Net capital outflow from Russia in 2014 could reach $ 130 billion
Подробности читайте на УНИАН: http://economics.unian.net/finance/1010309-chistyiy-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-v-2014-godu-mojet-dostich-130-mlrd.html
http://economics.unian.net/finance/1010309-chistyiy-ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-v-2014-godu-mojet-dostich-130-mlrd.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 11:12:11 AM
It sucks to be them..  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 21, 2014, 12:01:00 PM
The Brits are flexing some military muscle now...

British army in Nato Black Eagle exercise

..." The British army is taking part in its largest armoured deployment to Eastern Europe in six years, in a show of support, the Ministry of Defence says.

More than 1,000 military personnel and 100 armoured vehicles have joined Nato's Black Eagle exercise in Poland.

The MoD said it showed the British army's ability to deploy "at short notice anywhere in the world" in support of its allies.

The exercise comes amid tensions with Russia over its actions in Ukraine.

The British army's "lead armoured battle group" of 1,350 troops and 100 armoured vehicles from the 3rd UK Division are taking part - making it the UK's largest commitment to the region since 2008."...

..."It's been almost a decade since British tanks were last seen rolling across the plains of Eastern Europe.

In northern Poland they have been back in force in a scene reminiscent of the Cold War era.

This is the furthest east in Europe British tanks have been.

And it's a direct response to the actions of a near neighbour - Russia's intervention in Crimea and eastern Ukraine."...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30142764

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 12:10:08 PM
The Brits are flexing some military muscle now...

British army in Nato Black Eagle exercise

..." The British army is taking part in its largest armoured deployment to Eastern Europe in six years, in a show of support, the Ministry of Defence says.

More than 1,000 military personnel and 100 armoured vehicles have joined Nato's Black Eagle exercise in Poland.

The MoD said it showed the British army's ability to deploy "at short notice anywhere in the world" in support of its allies.

The exercise comes amid tensions with Russia over its actions in Ukraine.

The British army's "lead armoured battle group" of 1,350 troops and 100 armoured vehicles from the 3rd UK Division are taking part - making it the UK's largest commitment to the region since 2008."...

..."It's been almost a decade since British tanks were last seen rolling across the plains of Eastern Europe.

In northern Poland they have been back in force in a scene reminiscent of the Cold War era.

This is the furthest east in Europe British tanks have been.

And it's a direct response to the actions of a near neighbour - Russia's intervention in Crimea and eastern Ukraine."...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30142764

Brass

Nice to see the UK finally flexing their muscles again in the area.  Let's hope that if Putler tries to get his land-bridge that they actually fulfill their obligations of the Budapest Memorandum and send those tanks into Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 12:18:11 PM
Nice to see the UK finally flexing their muscles again in the area.  Let's hope that if Putler tries to get his land-bridge that they ( and the other signers ) actually fulfill their obligations of the Budapest Memorandum and send those tanks into Ukraine.


FITY!  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 21, 2014, 12:27:19 PM
Yep, I agree with both sentiments.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 12:47:13 PM

FITY!  :D

Mike,
I'm going to assume you meant FTFY (fixed that for you) and while I wholeheartedly agree, without a strong POTUS I am very happy to see the UK over there right now, ready to be injected into Ukraine if need be.  As well I'm very happy to see Canada involved with providing Ukraine needed ambulance trucks and other supplies. 

I see a parallel back to WWII when Hitler invaded Poland and it was the British back then that stood up to him and slowly got the rest of the World to support those efforts.

I wonder if the timing of Biden being over there has anything to do with Ukraine now making steps to become part of NATO?  Either way that's a good move, but hats off to the British for having real tanks and elite troops nearby.  I hope the message is not lost on Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 21, 2014, 01:27:46 PM
Hopefully the US will supply Ukraine with military hardware after the new Congress meets in January.  Based on Obama's latest stunt with immigration I'm not sure how Congress will be able to pull it off, but here's hoping and dreaming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 01:31:32 PM
We're all on the same page guys!  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 21, 2014, 02:34:14 PM
We're all on the same page guys!  :clapping:

Not me.  Three reasons:

1.  If America provides modern weapons to Ukraine's military, Putin has the evidence to prove to his citizens that America is the enemy.   Remember that Putin must create an external enemy to keep his support.  Putin received initial support from his citizens because he was protecting Russians from Ukrainian fascists.   He continues to point to America as being complicit in Ukraine.   Putin says that Russia needs to stand up against the world order being created by America. 

2.   Ukrainian troops know how to operate Russian equipment, not American weapons.  Thus, if we gave them American arms, we would need to send American troops to train Ukrainian troops how to use the weapons.  Putin could use this as a reason to invade all of Ukraine, and it would happen long before Ukrainian troops were trained in how to operate the American weapons.   

3.  I still assert that this is Europe's mess and Europe needs to find a solution.  Europe has the most to gain with an economically viable and politically stable Ukraine.  Besides we are busy with ISIL, Iran, ebola, etc.

There is still much America can do to help Ukraine other than to arm its military.  Humanitarian aid and business investment are certainly needed.    And we could pay secretly for shipments of Russian-type weapons to Ukraine from countries who purchase weapons from Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 02:45:58 PM
I seriously doubt that there would be very much transition time to adapt to other styles of weapons. The US wouldn't just toss them off the plane and leave. There would be training if it's already not underway now. Don't forget that UA has already helped with NATO projects.

ISIL ebola makes the headlines, but there's been 5K deaths from ebola. Over 4K deaths from this invasion so far. ISIL? They've shown some PR heavy beheadings and mass hysteria, but fewer deaths than the other headline problems.
 Russia has a serious potential to spread over Europe as well as worldwide if their threat of nukes ever comes about.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 21, 2014, 03:25:17 PM
How about if US/ EU/NATO buys Russian equipment directly from the "Separatists", perhaps for half what it cost Russia, forcing Russia to replace it?  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 04:24:29 PM
Not me.  Three reasons:

1.  If America provides modern weapons to Ukraine's military, Putin has the evidence to prove to his citizens that America is the enemy.   Remember that Putin must create an external enemy to keep his support.  Putin received initial support from his citizens because he was protecting Russians from Ukrainian fascists.   He continues to point to America as being complicit in Ukraine.   Putin says that Russia needs to stand up against the world order being created by America. 

2.   Ukrainian troops know how to operate Russian equipment, not American weapons.  Thus, if we gave them American arms, we would need to send American troops to train Ukrainian troops how to use the weapons.  Putin could use this as a reason to invade all of Ukraine, and it would happen long before Ukrainian troops were trained in how to operate the American weapons.   

3.  I still assert that this is Europe's mess and Europe needs to find a solution.  Europe has the most to gain with an economically viable and politically stable Ukraine.  Besides we are busy with ISIL, Iran, ebola, etc.

There is still much America can do to help Ukraine other than to arm its military.  Humanitarian aid and business investment are certainly needed.    And we could pay secretly for shipments of Russian-type weapons to Ukraine from countries who purchase weapons from Russia.

Shooting a LAW (light anti-tank weapon) is incredibly easy.  I don't know about the current anti-tank weapons, but I think you are not giving enough credit to the intelligence of the Ukrainians.

As to the rest of your post it makes me think of Neville Chamberlain and his attempt to appease the Nazi's.  Winston Churchill took over after that and the rest is history.  You are being really naďve if you think that Putin is going to stop without military action by the West to stop him.  Again I'm glad that the British are there; and the sooner the war turns hot the sooner the little guy can be stopped.  He's going to find a way to provoke the West either way -- that's what he wants.  You're simply delusional if you think that Europe alone is going to be able to negotiate with this guy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 04:28:56 PM
I seriously doubt that there would be very much transition time to adapt to other styles of weapons. The US wouldn't just toss them off the plane and leave. There would be training if it's already not underway now. Don't forget that UA has already helped with NATO projects.

Ukrainian soldiers fought with the British and Americans and the rest of the coalition partners already in Iraq.  To say that they cannot fight or cannot learn how to fire a Javelin anti-tank weapon is absurd.  Ukrainian civilians with only rocks and sticks beat back Russian thugs armed with guns in Odessa.  It's their country and they are more than capable of getting the job done with the proper weapons.


excerpt
"The Javelin system is deployed and ready to fire in less than 30 seconds and the reload time is less than 20 seconds."

Unlike conventional wire guided, fibre-optic cable guided, or laser beam riding missiles, Javelin is autonomously guided to the target after launch, leaving the gunner free to reposition or reload immediately after launch.

A soft launch ejects the missile from the launch tube to give a low-recoil shoulder launch. The soft launch enables firing from inside buildings or covered positions. Once the missile is clear, the larger propellant in the second stage is ignited and the missile is propelled towards the target. The weapon has two attack modes, direct or top attack.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/



Ukrainian's who served in Iraq:

"An independent contingent, consisting of 1,650 troops from the 5th Mechanized Brigade, was deployed to Kut (South Central Iraq) in late 2003. In May 2005, the brigade was replaced with the 81st Tactical Group, numbering around 900 troops.[94] A training team of around 40 troops remained in Diwaniyah until December 9, 2008.[95] The deployment was then reduced continuously until the remaining 44 troops were pulled out on December 22, 2005.[96] This fulfilled a long-planned withdrawal pledged by newly elected President Viktor Yushchenko. Ukraine suffered 18 fatalities: twelve in attacks, three in accidents, two in suicides and one as a result of a heart attack, while 33 were wounded or injured.[97] Early in 2004, three Ukrainian engineers were taken hostage in Iraq but were freed shortly after."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 21, 2014, 04:54:46 PM
Russian cannot stop oil prices from continuing to fall:


http://www.voanews.com/content/russia-can-do-little-to-shore-up-falling-oil-prices/2527630.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2014, 05:59:48 PM
Not me.  Three reasons:

1.  If America provides modern weapons to Ukraine's military, Putin has the evidence to prove to his citizens that America is the enemy.   Remember that Putin must create an external enemy to keep his support.  Putin received initial support from his citizens because he was protecting Russians from Ukrainian fascists.   He continues to point to America as being complicit in Ukraine.   Putin says that Russia needs to stand up against the world order being created by America. 

2.   Ukrainian troops know how to operate Russian equipment, not American weapons.  Thus, if we gave them American arms, we would need to send American troops to train Ukrainian troops how to use the weapons.  Putin could use this as a reason to invade all of Ukraine, and it would happen long before Ukrainian troops were trained in how to operate the American weapons.   

3.  I still assert that this is Europe's mess and Europe needs to find a solution.  Europe has the most to gain with an economically viable and politically stable Ukraine.  Besides we are busy with ISIL, Iran, ebola, etc.

There is still much America can do to help Ukraine other than to arm its military.  Humanitarian aid and business investment are certainly needed.    And we could pay secretly for shipments of Russian-type weapons to Ukraine from countries who purchase weapons from Russia.

1/  Because Putin says it does not make it a fact!!( except in the minds of a few delusional forums fools).Putin's big bluff to keep the west from helping Ukraine is that he will escalate-- and I do not doubt he will do that regardless--but delaying help from the west is assisting Putin's ambitions.Putin pointing the finger at the USA is a diversionary strategy deliberately designed to turn attention from the Ukrainian peoples desire for a future free of of the past inadequacies of an association dominated by Russia.
Gator-- your comments allow Putin to continue setting the agenda in his own way ( G-aimed at the general conclusions reached by a few  & not just you !)
2/  Better equipment will assist the Ukrainian forces greatly-- right now they are in grave danger of being overrun because they are effectively out gunned ( take note that they are suffering heavier losses now as the Russians have been pouring in men and equipment that is superior to previously) As others have said-- Ukrainians will adapt quick enough-- but--if it means training them with western instructors-I am 100% for it.
Putin knows his troops are potentially vulnerable-- the west needs to call that bluff.It cannot be a 5% call--it needs to 100% effort without prior announcements  eg  pour equipment in plus whatever else is needed and keep saying a few instructors have been sent!!
3/ It is a worlds mess--Putin is a threat to world stability--not just Europe .
Your call is 200 years out of date-- no country is an island when it comes to world affairs. We are all citizens of the world and cannot ignore the mindless murder of innocent people.
Your attitude would turn a blind eye to the holocaust-- as the world did again in the breakup of Yugoslavia where ethnic extermination revisited Europe. Taking that chance again and ignoring Putin now will prove a huge mistake for the world.
Confronting him now-- when you have willing forces on the ground-- desperately in need of help-- makes a lot more sense than allowing Putin's nazis free reign.


In other posts--I posted links to a former Putin advisors comments-- they need to be read  as they dispel any notion that any of Putins invasions this year were ad-hoc spur of the moment ideas . It is basically a 7/8 year old plan -probably created when the potential of the democratic process was shown with the Orange revolution  to be a danger to the kleptocrats in Ukraine & Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2014, 08:51:56 PM

USA Ukraine passed three protivominometnyh Radar


It is planned to transfer the Ukrainian military 20 such radars.
The US military was brought to Ukraine first three light protivominometnye radar system, which will go on the arms of the Ukrainian army . This was announced on Friday, November 21, Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren, passes Ukrinform .
TOPIC

Yesterday, 15:50
"Radar systems see approximation mortar fire and quickly calculate the position of the enemy" - explained Warren.
According to him, the Ukrainian military themselves determine where and when they will use these systems.
The press service of the Pentagon said it is the first batch of radar systems, which likely will include 20 units and they will be delivered in the next few weeks.
American military experts will begin training Ukrainian colleagues in mid-December.
Radar systems - part of comprehensive care in the amount of US $ 118 million, provides for the provision of equipment and training of the Ukrainian military.
"We are working closely with the Ukrainians in the process of interagency cooperation,"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 01:54:24 AM

Merkel runs out of patience with Putin

The Globe and Mail
JOANNA SLATER


    
 At a Hilton hotel last week in Brisbane, Australia, they talked for six hours, at first without any aides or other officials present.

But whatever transpired at the late-night meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the outcome wasn’t heartening. In a speech in Australia two days later, the normally measured Ms. Merkel was blunt.

The crisis in Ukraine was not just a regional matter, but something that affects “all of us,” she said. Russia’s actions represented an unacceptable return to a Cold War paradigm of dividing the world into spheres of influence, she added, with worrisome consequences for countries such as Moldova, Georgia and the countries of the western Balkans. Moreover, Europe, the United States and others must remain united in inflicting economic pain on Russia, she said, for what could be a very long time.

She remarked pointedly that Germany had observed several notable anniversaries this year, including the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. “All of a sudden we see ourselves confronted with a conflict that seems to be an attack against the very heart of our values,” Ms. Merkel said. “We have to prove that we’ve learned something from the past.”

German Chancellor Angela Merkel was shaken when Russian President Vladimir Putin coldly admitted to her that he had sent troops into Crimea.© Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters German Chancellor Angela Merkel was shaken when Russian President Vladimir Putin coldly admitted to her that he had sent troops into Crimea.   
Ms. Merkel’s straight talk is a sign that she has lost patience with Mr. Putin, with whom she has spoken more than 30 times since the crisis began. She has been a chief proponent of continuing dialogue with the Russian leader, but in her latest remarks, she indicated that Western countries also need to start preparing for the long haul. “This is not something that is going to end no matter what the settlement of the issue in Ukraine,” said Joerg Forbrig, an expert on eastern Europe at the German Marshall Fund of the United States. “Russia is basically driving a systemic confrontation here. She senses that.”

Mr. Putin, 62, and Ms. Merkel, 60, were both shaped by their experiences of the Cold War, with radically different results. A theoretical physicist and the daughter of a pastor in East Germany, Ms. Merkel emerged as a conservative politician with an abiding commitment to the right to self-determination.

Mr. Putin “recognizes Merkel as the only really strong person in this crisis, not Obama,” said Stefan Meister, a Russia expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin. “He believes Obama is a very weak politician.”

Ms. Merkel is also not easily provoked. “The alpha-male thing is something Putin always wins,” Mr. Forbrig said. “Merkel doesn’t go there. He’s driven nuts by the calmness that she has. It doesn’t give a surface for friction.”

The two leaders have no need for interpreters. Ms. Merkel speaks Russian after growing up in East Germany; Mr. Putin speaks German after serving as a KGB agent in Dresden. Their relationship is not close, experts say, but professional. There have been a few notable tensions along the way: Back in 2007, during a meeting at his country home, Mr. Putin reportedly let his black Labrador loose, knowing Ms. Merkel harbours a fear of large dogs.

Yet Mr. Putin appears to have miscalculated Ms. Merkel – and Germany. While the country has strong economic ties to Russia, to the tune of €77-billion ($107-billion) in annual trade, its government has been a leading voice in favour of sanctions. German business lobbies have complained vociferously about the impact of the trade restrictions, but Ms. Merkel has stated that the costs of the government’s policy to corporations are outweighed by the costs of doing nothing. The German public is backing her up. Ms. Merkel’s approval ratings, after nearly a decade as Chancellor, touched an all-time high in September. A poll conducted in November found that 77 per cent of Germans felt that Russia couldn’t be trusted as a partner.

Gernot Erler, a member of Germany’s parliament, the Bundestag, who acts as its liaison to Russia, said that a recent trip to Moscow showed signs of a continually deteriorating dialogue. The fact that Germans are “not willing to accept the annexation of Crimea as a reunification comparable to that in Germany leaves our Russian interlocutors puzzled,” he said. Mr. Erler added that for the first time ever, members of the Russian parliament, the State Duma, are systematically refusing to have any contact with their German colleagues.

“The Germans have for many years had the illusion they could act as a bridge” between Russia and the West, asserted Mr. Forbrig of the German Marshall Fund. “That illusion was shattered this year. Whatever the Foreign Ministry or government tried in the way of mediation ultimately failed.”

Ms. Merkel’s task now, he said, is to rally other European countries to support a further round of sanctions should Mr. Putin take further aggressive moves in Ukraine, as now seems highly likely. She can also prepare for other contingencies: how Europe would react to a shut-off of natural gas supplies from Russia, for instance, or how it will counter Russian pressure on countries such as Moldova, who want closer ties with the EU.

Ms. Merkel, for her part, believes the road will be a long and difficult one. “Those that put the right of the stronger before the strength of the law” must not be allowed to prevail, she said earlier this week in Australia. And just because the crisis cannot be solved with military force does not mean there is no solution, she added.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/merkel-runs-out-of-patience-with-putin/ar-BBf7KgJ?ocid=BDT5DHP
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 22, 2014, 10:00:21 AM
Mr. Putin, 62, and Ms. Merkel, 60, were both shaped by their experiences of the Cold War, with radically different results. A theoretical physicist and the daughter of a pastor in East Germany, Ms. Merkel emerged as a conservative politician with an abiding commitment to the right to self-determination.

Mr. Putin “recognizes Merkel as the only really strong person in this crisis, not Obama,” said Stefan Meister, a Russia expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin. “He believes Obama is a very weak politician.”

Ms. Merkel is also not easily provoked. “The alpha-male thing is something Putin always wins,” Mr. Forbrig said. “Merkel doesn’t go there. He’s driven nuts by the calmness that she has. It doesn’t give a surface for friction.”

A very wise lady.  I've often admired her.  She doesn't make excuses, she doesn't play the usual gender games that American female politicians play when they can't get their way.  Like most Germans her education is stellar and she is prepared and just goes about her business.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 22, 2014, 10:37:43 AM
A question for Russians:
Why do Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine and other neighboring countries want to belong to NATO?

Answer: They are AFRAID of Russia.
They are NOT afraid of France, Germany, the USA, Poland, ...the 'West'.

I too admire Merkel. She's the opposite of Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 22, 2014, 10:50:03 AM
A question for Russians:
Why do Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine and other neighboring countries want to belong to NATO?

Answer: They are AFRAID of Russia.
They are NOT afraid of France, Germany, the USA, Poland, ...the 'West'.

I too admire Merkel. She's the opposite of Putin.

Self determination I believe is the strongest human desire that there is.  Just as each individual person wishes to self-determine their lives and their futures, nations especially wish to determine the life and the future of their nation.  While the EU fromework is not perfect it is certainly preferred to what Russia offers.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 22, 2014, 02:58:02 PM
Good article about how Putler may be running out of chips in his game of poker with the West.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-wounded-economy-is-on-the-verge-of-a-crisis-2014-11?IR=T
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 22, 2014, 04:42:35 PM
Good article about how Putler may be running out of chips in his game of poker with the West.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-wounded-economy-is-on-the-verge-of-a-crisis-2014-11?IR=T

Article touches on numerous key issues-- the main one being Putin's stupidity and ongoing gamble(bluff) that the west cant do without Russia.
At some point the scales will tilt permanently against Putin-- where the current western losses and potential losses as a result of Russian connected investment  will be outweighed by the possiblity of in effect picking up the losses when the collapse of the Russian economy sees the same assets and more available at a much lower price to acquire.
As it stands now--  cash reserves are in the dangerous level-- and in fact are insufficient to meet obligations in the next year. Something has to give--and thanks to the Kremlin putting it's head in the sand it will be dramatic.
Particularly of interest is if Ukraine can hold on militarily in the short term -- and force Russia into a protracted battle.The irony is that part of Putin's war on Ukraine strategy was to break Ukraine economically-- and it may in fact do exactly that to Russia itself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 06:00:58 PM
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'. Gator made some valid points looking more into long term what effects certain decisions now will eventually become( likely). My thoughts is a can of worms would open up with US being directly involved in the War.......with Ukraine and 'separatists' becoming an after thought.

Spend a few days with the Red Cross dealing with the civilians injured/dying in eastern Ukraine and wonder will it end...or just escalate!! Sad, so sad.... :-[

I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 22, 2014, 06:47:08 PM
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'. Gator made some valid points looking more into long term what effects certain decisions now will eventually become( likely). My thoughts is a can of worms would open up with US being directly involved in the War.......with Ukraine and 'separatists' becoming an after thought.

Spend a few days with the Red Cross dealing with the civilians injured/dying in eastern Ukraine and wonder will it end...or just escalate!! Sad, so sad.... :-[

I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.

The use of the word "separatists " justs disgusts me-it shows your ignorance-they are Russians fcs--how hard is it to work that out? Russians who have invaded another country  and are responsible for the murder of citizens of numerous other nations as well as Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 07:32:33 PM
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'.


Raises hand.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 07:35:31 PM
Here is an article on life in the DNR.  There are a lot of articles like this.  Are they self selected?   Perhaps.  Things aren't rosy in Kyiv, either.  But at least in the latter, people aren't afraid authorities will lock them up and beat them for no reason.


http://en.censor.net.ua/resonance/313049/we_were_tortured_next_to_the_osce_cars_but_they_never_noticed_us_donetsk_resident_svitlana_matushko
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 22, 2014, 07:56:37 PM
Link broken?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 22, 2014, 08:03:50 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.
It is like Russia will provide Iraq with weapon.
Ukraine in even not NATO member.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 22, 2014, 08:16:56 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.


Afraid the 'Cargo 200' convoys back to Russia will get busier?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 22, 2014, 08:32:21 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.
It is like Russia will provide Iraq with weapon.
Ukraine in even not NATO member.

Yes, it should have happened many months ago!      ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 22, 2014, 09:04:08 PM
Washington (AFP) - The US military has delivered three radars to Ukraine designed to detect incoming mortar fire, the Pentagon said Friday, amid appeals from Kiev for Washington to send weapons to help fight pro-Russian rebels.

The counter-mortar radar systems were flown to Ukraine in a C-17 cargo plane that accompanied US Vice President Joe Biden, who paid a visit to Kiev on the first anniversary of protests that unleashed a year of upheaval.

A total of 20 counter-mortar radar systems were due to be delivered over the next several weeks, and Ukrainian troops would undergo training on the radars starting in mid-December, Pentagon spokesman Colonel Steven Warren said.

The radars detect incoming mortar rounds and then calculate the origin of the mortar fire. The systems can be hooked up to mortar or artillery batteries which then return fire.

"It will be up to the Ukrainians how, when and where they deploy these systems," Warren said.

President Barack Obama has so far ruled out providing weapons and ammunition to Ukraine, and instead approved the delivery of "non-lethal" assistance such as radars, night vision goggles, radios, rations, body armor and other items.

But at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing earlier this week, Tony Blinken, who is nominated for a senior diplomatic post, said the United States should consider providing Ukraine with "defensive" weapons.

"I think it is something that we should be looking at," Blinken said.

Ukrainian leaders and some US lawmakers have repeatedly urged Obama to send arms to the Kiev government but the Pentagon said there had been no change in the current approach.

"To my knowledge, there is no new policy decision to announce," Warren told reporters.

Russia, which denies Western accusations it is supplying and advising rebels in eastern Ukraine, has warned the Americans against arming Ukrainian government troops.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-delivers-anti-mortar-radars-ukraine-pentagon-222447307.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.
It is like Russia will provide Iraq with weapon.
Ukraine in even not NATO member.

Is this different than Russia invading UA as well as supplying the few domestic terrorists? Once again the US is trying to help the little guy against the big bad bear of the tiaga that tries to eat them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 09:20:31 PM
Link broken?


It's working for me.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 09:22:12 PM
Iff the USA begin providing weapon the it will mean the US is OPENLY involved in this conflict.
It is like Russia will provide Iraq with weapon.
Ukraine in even not NATO member.


Why should Ukraine be precluded from defending itself?   Sometimes, right is right.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 22, 2014, 09:38:18 PM
Guys, why are so sure that  USA  can integer in the conflict it has nothing to do with?
Same with Iran and Iraq (again)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 22, 2014, 09:43:45 PM

Why should Ukraine be precluded from defending itself?   Sometimes, right is right.
So you too are sure that the USA can bomb Iran and Iraq and provide weapon for Ukraine ?
What " right is right"?
It means nothing
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 09:50:10 PM
The U.S. is not bombing Iran.


Sometimes, one has to take a stand.  The Donbas was overtaken by mercenaries and criminals, not locals who wanted separation.  There were few ways, short of military action, to deal with them.  When they were about to be defeated, Russia sent arms and troops.  Providing Ukrainians with equipment to defend themselves in such a situation is justifiable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 09:50:58 PM
If Russia would have left UA to seek it's own way and not have invaded then the US would be selling or giving arms. Understand? :cluebat:

 Russia invaded and has killed Ukrainians IN Ukraine.

 Ukraine needs help to kill the bear of the tiaga that's invading it's home. Almost all the countries of the world agree on this.

 The US and other are going to help with this as well as crippling the economy of Russia until the bear goes back to the tiaga. Understand?  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 09:54:31 PM
Boe, did you see the news about Russian FSU Col. Girkin admitting to starting the war?

 I saw it at Moscow Times IIRC.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 10:00:45 PM
Boe, did you see the news about Russian FSU Col. Girkin admitting to starting the war?

 I saw it at Moscow Times IIRC.

How do you decide when someone is lying and telling the truth??? When it suits your agenda or POV?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 10:04:50 PM
Interesting article I read.......the 2 articles here sum up things well I thought.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 22, 2014, 10:05:12 PM
Funny how many of you grasp any article that supports your POV, as if it is some sacred 100% fact telling story.
I wonder how many of you would have same position if Ukraine didn't offer their women as a possible partner or as many of you call a 'hot smoking novas'.  :-[

If it weren't for Ukraine containing the women, I suspect these guys would give exactly zero sh!ts!


That said, I think the reason posters 'grasp' at some of these articles is because in the present things are not going the way they think they should, so wishing and hoping that evil Russia 'pays' someday in the future gives people something to say.  It probably won't go down the way they hope, and perhaps believe, but for the moment it gives people joy, so I guess that is good. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 22, 2014, 10:05:28 PM
Guys, why are so sure that  USA  can integer in the conflict it has nothing to do with?
Same with Iran and Iraq (again)

False.  Google the Budapest Memorandum and read it (doubt if you could fully comprehend it, but try).  The USA, the UK and France all have a legal right to come to the aid of Ukraine.  Ever hear of the United Nations?  Try clicking on the link (the green globe to the left) and read the overwhelming condemnation of the annexation of Crimea (again; you will simpley deny reality).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 22, 2014, 10:05:49 PM
The U.S. is not bombing Iran.


Sometimes, one has to take a stand.  The Donbas was overtaken by mercenaries and criminals, not locals who wanted separation.  There were few ways, short of military action, to deal with them.  When they were about to be defeated, Russia sent arms and troops.  Providing Ukrainians with equipment to defend themselves in such a situation is justifiable.
Then no more questions
( the USA is bombing Iraq )
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:11:51 PM
Boe, did you see the news about Russian FSU Col. Girkin admitting to starting the war?

 I saw it at Moscow Times IIRC.


I read it, but I reject it as truth.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 10:12:48 PM
How do you decide when someone is lying and telling the truth??? When it suits your agenda or POV?

If someone confesses that they started a war during an interview I'd suspect that it was truth.

 That's his agenda not mine.  My POV wasn't asked for during that news piece. Was your's? :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:14:09 PM
Then no more questions
( the USA is bombing Iraq )


I was always against the Iraq war, so you are barking up the wrong tree with that particular analogy.


In any event, it is irrelevant.  It is used by Putin to justify his illegal actions in Ukraine, where, unlike in Iraq, thousands were not being tortured to death in prisons, or gassed to death because they happened to belong to the wrong tribe.  The two situations are not analogous.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 22, 2014, 10:14:49 PM


I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.
I would suspect that the US is once again secretly doing a little more currently to counter the separatists than they are admitting to publicly. They(we) probably did quite a bit more than has been publicly admitted to , to foment this thing as well.   Whatever we did in Afghanistan sure doesn't seem to have worked out well for most Americans or the Afghans...so who has benefited?


Fathertime
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 10:18:13 PM
War benefits no one.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:20:04 PM
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 10:20:28 PM
If someone confesses that they started a war during an interview I'd suspect that it was truth.

 That's his agenda not mine.  My POV wasn't asked for during that news piece. Was your's? :rolleyes:

Your POV is all over here!! My statement was in general. Fact is, I know exactly what you have written before I even read it. I understand why your emotional on the war in Ukraine....relax
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 22, 2014, 10:22:33 PM
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.

If that was in regard to my post........my comparison was in secretly arming a people.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 22, 2014, 10:24:02 PM
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.
They why are YOU making that comparison?  I didn't. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 22, 2014, 10:27:32 PM
Interesting article I read.......the 2 articles here sum up things well I thought.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11 (http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11)
I think the opinions expressed in that link were well-reasoned.  Thanks for sharing them.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:36:37 PM
They why are YOU making that comparison?  I didn't. 


Fathertime!


I have never made that comparison.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 22, 2014, 10:37:16 PM
If that was in regard to my post........my comparison was in secretly arming a people.

If the US provides arms to Ukraine, I doubt it will be secretly.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 22, 2014, 10:45:43 PM
Right and since there are currently 2 bills before Congress it's public knowledge.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 01:38:05 AM
If that was in regard to my post........my comparison was in secretly arming a people.

While it's off topic, I will bite.  The USA armed Afghani's, who were fighting an invading army who illegally invaded Afghanistan.  Our efforts paid off -- the Soviet Union left Afganistan -- a country they had illegally invaded.  A nice side benefit was that their economy collapsed and their whole empire fell apart.

See any parallels to what is about to happen to Russia again, Einstein?

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 01:43:40 AM
War benefits no one.

I beg to differ.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399295/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 02:07:06 AM
Ok besides Nicholas Cage that is! :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 02:25:40 AM
I suppose that there is one more though. :rolleyes: And Huilostan
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 06:54:41 AM
Not true
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bt8De84C_Rk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bt8De84C_Rk)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 06:55:35 AM
Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  The comparison is absurd.
The comparison is very valid
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on November 23, 2014, 08:09:17 AM


I just recently saw a program about the war between Russia and Afghanistan, and how US was covertly involved( yet denying it) buying 'Russian made' weapons from Egypt to give to Mujahideen to fight the Russian army.

There wasn't anything covert about it. The US wasn't buying Russian made weapons. They were openly supplying the Afghans with small arms. It wasn't until the U.S. voted to and  supplied them with surface to air missiles that the war turned and help the Afghans defeat the Russians
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:23:00 AM
The comparison is very valid


Other than the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and Russia invaded Ukraine, in what way is the comparison valid?



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 23, 2014, 09:38:21 AM
The U.S. is not bombing Iran.

Sometimes, one has to take a stand.  The Donbas was overtaken by mercenaries and criminals, not locals who wanted separation.  There were few ways, short of military action, to deal with them.  When they were about to be defeated, Russia sent arms and troops.  Providing Ukrainians with equipment to defend themselves in such a situation is justifiable.
I agree that sending weapons in Ukraine is justifiable. Not much help really (without experts and servicemen) but justifiable.
However any thinking politician will see consequences.
1. Russia will send rebels military equipment of the same quality and in the same quantities. Besides Russia has option to send "consultants" to serve the weapons, I'm not sure US will be able to follow so far.
2. War will continue with higher intensity, and more Ukrainians will die at both sides. Boethius is mistaken saying about mercenaries and criminals, probably she takes info mainly from .uа resources. Locals are the core of militia there. Though now it's hard to call them Ukrainians.
3. Russia has canceled S-300 deal with Iran because of US opposition. Then Russia will feel herself free from any liabilities.

Mother Russia is watching :
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/15519/27652091.323/0_947b2_1b7061d4_XL.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:57:15 AM
Quote
1. Russia will send rebels military equipment of the same quality and in the same quantities. Besides Russia has option to send "consultants" to serve the weapons, I'm not sure US will be able to follow so far.


Russia has done, and is doing this currently.  So, no change.
Quote
2. War will continue with higher intensity, and more Ukrainians will die at both sides. Boethius is mistaken saying about mercenaries and criminals, probably she takes info mainly from .uа resources. Locals are the core of militia there. Though now it's hard to call them Ukrainians.


There are still mercenary units (such as self proclaimed "Cossacks" and Chechens operating in Donbas.  Many of those left are indeed criminals. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on November 23, 2014, 10:08:11 AM
Russia has done, and is doing this currently.  So, no change.

Yes, Russia provide weapons but of the same level as Ukrainian army uses. Change will be in mortality of soldiers, rebels and civilians.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 10:42:03 AM
Interesting article I read.......the 2 articles here sum up things well I thought.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mauldin-on-russia-2014-11

The article Putin’s World: Why Russia’s Showdown with the West Will Worsen by Vitaliy Katsenelson is an excellent piece of journalism. 

Vitaly, born in Murmansk and today a highly accomplished financial analyst, went to an extreme to explain how Russian propaganda works.  He watched nothing but RT news for seven days, which is comparable to the Super Size Me film narrator who ate nothing but McDonalds for 30 days.  Vitaly emerged with some excellent insight into Russian propaganda. 

I really like the following conclusion, which perhaps explains the attitude of Russians in general, including at least woman we see at RWD:

"Russian TV is so potent that you would not even want to watch anything else, because you would be convinced that you were in possession of indisputable facts."    :D :( :D :( :D :(
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 11:05:43 AM
While it's off topic, I will bite.  The USA armed Afghani's, who were fighting an invading army who illegally invaded Afghanistan.  Our efforts paid off -- the Soviet Union left Afganistan -- a country they had illegally invaded.  A nice side benefit was that their economy collapsed and their whole empire fell apart.

See any parallels to what is about to happen to Russia again, Einstein?

 :ROFL:

Huge difference between Ukraine, if we arm them, and Afghanistan in the 1980s.  We did not arm the Mujahideen to help Afghanistan obtain its freedom.  We armed them so 1) they would kill Soviets and 2) the Soviets would spend more money than they could afford, thus helping to collapse the CCCP.  Remember, we were in a 40-year, expensive, global cold war with the Soviet Union.   

The Congressman behind the arming of Afghanistan:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson_(Texas_politician)

The book (great read):  http://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Wilsons-War-Extraordinary-Congress/dp/B001GVJBPC

The film:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson's_War     

BTW, our efforts were followed by as much blowback as the Soviets sufferred, including OBL and the Taliban. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 11:12:20 AM
I know the history of our involvment in Afghanistan very well.  You might be surprised but it was Carter who started this involvement, at the advice of Brzizinski. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski


PS -- you seem to miss the parallel, of what is going to happen to Russia (the USSR and Russia today are very similar and I see them as the same, especially with Putin in charge); again.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 12:16:49 PM
While it's off topic, I will bite.  The USA armed Afghani's, who were fighting an invading army who illegally invaded Afghanistan.  Our efforts paid off -- the Soviet Union left Afganistan -- a country they had illegally invaded.  A nice side benefit was that their economy collapsed and their whole empire fell apart.

See any parallels to what is about to happen to Russia again, Einstein?

 :ROFL:

Let's try this one more time.......my comparison is SECRECTLY arming a people. I was not comparing situation between Ukraine to Afghanistan...... Who knows what is or will be done secretly.

Since I am Einstein......AC, you forgot to spell Afghanistan correctly both times....but I am sure you knew that already!! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 12:27:05 PM
The article Putin’s World: Why Russia’s Showdown with the West Will Worsen by Vitaliy Katsenelson is an excellent piece of journalism. 

Vitaly, born in Murmansk and today a highly accomplished financial analyst, went to an extreme to explain how Russian propaganda works.  He watched nothing but RT news for seven days, which is comparable to the Super Size Me film narrator who ate nothing but McDonalds for 30 days.  Vitaly emerged with some excellent insight into Russian propaganda. 

I really like the following conclusion, which perhaps explains the attitude of Russians in general, including at least woman we see at RWD:

"Russian TV is so potent that you would not even want to watch anything else, because you would be convinced that you were in possession of indisputable facts."    :D :( :D :( :D :(

Thanks for reading article Gator. I hope many here will find time to be enlightened with the analysis whether you agree or disagree. That painting was quite revealing!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 12:33:53 PM
Let's try this one more time.......my comparison is SECRECTLY arming a people. I was not comparing situation between Ukraine to Afghanistan...... Who knows what is or will be done secretly.

Since I am Einstein......AC, you forgot to spell Afghanistan correctly both times....but I am sure you knew that already!! :)

I don't think that arming the Muhadeen was done in secret in fact Reagan had some of them to the White House,
hardly a secret. 

You've yet to answer my opinion that Russia will yet again become a collapsed economy, because of their desire to invade yet another country for the purpose of stealing their lands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 12:51:46 PM

Other than the USSR invaded Afghanistan, and Russia invaded Ukraine, in what way is the comparison valid?
No
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 01:03:22 PM
That painting was quite revealing!!

Indeed!  Painted in 1995,  two years after his father took the family to America.   It showed much hope for a new Russia and a break from its long past. 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 01:25:54 PM
I don't think that arming the Muhadeen was done in secret in fact Reagan had some of them to the White House,
hardly a secret. 

You've yet to answer my opinion that Russia will yet again become a collapsed economy, because of their desire to invade yet another country for the purpose of stealing their lands.

Okay....Russians economy can collapse..... but more to do with markets conditions, ie: oil pricing.

Can you tell me why Charlie Wilson was continually lobbying congress and donars for money to buy Russian weapons from Egypt? Would have been easier to just send weapons directly to arm mujahideen( again, sp?)
I understand eventually US sent surface to air missiles.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 01:38:39 PM
Okay....Russians economy can collapse..... but more to do with markets conditions, ie: oil pricing.

Can you tell me why Charlie Wilson was continually lobbying congress and donars for money to buy Russian weapons from Egypt? Would have been easier to just send weapons directly to arm mujahideen( again, sp?)
I understand eventually US sent surface to air missiles.

It's no secret that the USA and the Soviet Union were in a cold war at that time.  It's no secret that most of the people of Afghanistan felt that the Soviet Union (let by Russia from the Kremlin) had invaded their country and that the Afghanistan people preferred self-determination. 

It's also no secret that V. Putin feels the collapse of the Soviet Union was a tragedy, and he's doing his best to again subjugate former members of the FSU back under control by Russian's from the Kremlin.

And it's no secret that the economic sanctions are hurting Putin's economy; as well as the double-whammy of low oil prices again. 

It's also no secret that Reagan leaned on the Saudi's back then in order to lower oil prices (to hurt the FSU) and it's possible that Obama has leaned on the Saudi's again to achieve the same results.

Putin has been deliberately provoking the West and his actions are a threat to the sanctity of sovereign borders in Europe.  Europe has a history of thousands of years of bloodshed because of such.  Europe needs a reason to stand up against Putin's aggression and it's likely that Putin will give it to them.


BTW your punctuation is certainly not perfect and the style of it makes me think that you're actually Russian.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Okay....Russians economy can collapse..... but more to do with markets conditions, ie: oil pricing.

Can you tell me why Charlie Wilson was continually lobbying congress and donars for money to buy Russian weapons from Egypt? Would have been easier to just send weapons directly to arm mujahideen( again, sp?)
I understand eventually US sent surface to air missiles.

The first part I bolded was written awkwardly, like a Russian would write it.
Since you're so concerned about spelling, it's interesting that you misspelled donor.
You are clearly NOT American.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 01:52:30 PM
The first part I bolded was written awkwardly, like a Russian would write it.
Since you're so concerned about spelling, it's interesting that you misspelled donor.
You are clearly NOT American.

Well the guys I met when I was in Sharm El Sheikh didn't think I was American either!!! Are YOU an Arab??? :o

BTW, thanks for correcting me, I will keep a better eye on my penmanship!!

I did answer your question but you didn't answer mine....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 02:00:15 PM
Well the guys I met when I was in Sharm El Sheikh didn't think I was American either!!! Are YOU an Arab??? :o

BTW, thanks for correcting me, I will keep a better eye on my penmanship!!

I did answer your question but you didn't answer mine....


My answer is that it's  :offtopic:.


It's an old argument though.  A short answer would be that the USA does not arm people around the World so that we can then attempt to annex and steal their lands.  We do it so that they can self-determine their future.

A polar opposite to what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now. 

Thanks for clearing up that you are an Arab from Egypt (based on your comment that is my guess, although I suppose you could also be Jewish).  It's always interesting to get the perspective from citizens from around the World about US foreign policy.

I don't set it and neither do any of the Americans here.  But again it's purpose is the polar opposite from what Russia's purpose is.  This is not to say that America has been perfect, because it's not.  There is always blowback as Gator mentioned, if we do not remain vigilant.  Evil and violence flourish around the World much easier than peace and goodness.  It takes a very strong President to have consistent and strong actions; as Obama is finding out words alone mean very little.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 23, 2014, 02:16:52 PM

My answer is that it's  :offtopic:.


It's an old argument though.  A short answer would be that the USA does not arm people around the World so that we can then attempt to annex and steal their lands.  We do it so that they can self-determine their future.

A polar opposite to what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now. 

Thanks for clearing up that you are an Arab from Egypt (based on your comment that is my guess, although I suppose you could also be Jewish).  It's always interesting to get the perspective from citizens from around the World about US foreign policy.

I don't set it and neither do any of the Americans here.  But again it's purpose is the polar opposite from what Russia's purpose is.  This is not to say that America has been perfect, because it's not.  There is always blowback as Gator mentioned, if we do not remain vigilant.  Evil and violence flourish around the World much easier than peace and goodness.  It takes a very strong President to have consistent and strong actions; as Obama is finding out words alone mean very little.

Interesting my question was   :offtopic:  for you but you did interject some  :offtopic: stuff. Oh well....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 02:24:40 PM
Interesting my question was   :offtopic:  for you but you did interject some  :offtopic: stuff. Oh well....

That's the nature of a forum.  This forum is dedicated to the FSU so I believe that should be the main focus.  It's my opinion that any mention of previous American foreign policy is a diversion away from what Putin is doing to Ukraine.  However I hope that I answered your question.  It very well may be that initially US policy towards Afghanistan back then when the USSR first invaded was secretive, but eventually it became well known.

But a comparison of polar opposite purposes -- an apple to orange comparison -- so not valid.

If I did not answer your questions let me know.  I will do my best to provide a better more thorough one.  Yet this thread should be about what is going on in Ukraine right now; and again I don't set US foreign policy.  You may get a much better answer by reading a biography of Brzezinski about his time in the service of US Presidential administrations during that era.

This may be helpful:

excerpt
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?


http://www.counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-started-the-mujahideen/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 03:49:39 PM

Wings Phoenix: About that ‘high-precision weapon’ at Donetsk airport
Posted on November 23, 2014 by chervonaruta VOICES OF UKRAINE

By Wings Phoenix, (Iurii Biriukov), army volunteer and Assistant Minister to the Minister of Defense
11.22.2014
Translated by Wings Phoenix Eng and edited by Voices of Ukraine, used with permission

The strangest photo report about a cargo delivery to Donetsk airport. I’ve been carefully delaying it, for the reason that the chief specialist in this specific issue has been in the airport all this time. But today he successfully returned to base, and hence…. Hence I can write a little bit about this.

Those following the Donetsk airport may remember, that at the beginning of last week, there was a series of reports about direct hits by our artillery, about the destruction of the militants’ bomb shelter, and the wounding of the idiot in a hat. The NSDC [National Security & Defense Council] has been reporting on the usage of a new high-precision weapon. Vladislav Seleznev was saying clever stuff….. But totally did not know what was going on.

Even now I cannot tell you the details. But a part of this ‘high-precision weapon’ we delivered to the airport on November 13th, and it has been working there since. Dmitry Marchenko has done a good job as always, and then dropped off more equipment. All this process has been watched by Diana Petrenya, who was quite intrigued by it. In short, all our usual crowd was involved.

Poor stupid separatists. … Well, why did you come here? To us? To our native land? Ay-ay-ay… How inconvenient is this – crawling into a bomb shelter that is about to be blasted by a direct hit. Maybe it is time for you to get out of here, bastards?

This is just a hint, though. Because next week we are coming there again, and bringing another piece of gear. Even more high-precision.

P.S.: Yuriy Kasyanov’s drones are playing a big role in the success of the usage of these ‘high-precision weapons,’ for which he gets a big thank you!



http://maidantranslations.com/2014/11/23/wings-phoenix-about-that-high-precision-weapon-at-donetsk-airport/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 04:14:48 PM
Dear, I am not talking of myself- I am trying to explain why Putin is doing what he he doing. You don't feel him because of mentality
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 04:16:20 PM
No and I don't feel for him with my hands either..

 However my finger on a trigger would feel just fine. I've never shot a huilo before. :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 04:22:50 PM
No and I don't feel for him with my hands either..

 However my finger on a trigger would feel just fine. I've never shot a huilo before. :clapping:
Typical American-finger on a trigger.
So you're threatening to kill Russian president?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 04:24:46 PM
Don't assume to know more than I stated.

 You realize that you just said that Putin is a huilo don't you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 04:31:42 PM
Don't assume to know more than I stated.

 You realize that you just said that Putin is a huilo don't you.
I can teach you reading comprehension - the meaningful part of your post was about wanting to kill
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 04:35:35 PM
No where did I say kill or Putin..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 04:45:31 PM
Former chief economic adviser of Russian President Vladimir Putin and CATO Institute member, Andrey Illarionov served as the president’s personal representative in the G-8, and is one of Russia’s most forceful and articulate advocates of an open society and democratic capitalism.

"Russian citizens have been zombied. It is a fact that many Russians citizens have been brainwashed. It is a fact of life. And it is quite striking to observe for Russian citizens how propaganda can the change the perceptions of millions of people just in front our very own eyes, in a very short period of time. Lets be clear- this (conflict) is war, in the very clear meaning of this word. All these psychological warfares are not just against Russians citizens, but against peoples all over the world. This is Mr Putins war against Ukraine as the majority of the Russian people do not support this war, This war has been in preparation for at least 11 years, I never thought these crazy decisions I heard would ever become a real war. ....and at the very end the plan is to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine in the region southeast of Kyiv. This war has been very long in preparation."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 23, 2014, 04:54:04 PM
No need to waste a perfectly good bullet to shoot huilo!
Much more satisfying would be if the rumours about huilo having incurable cancer is true...
Let's hope his guts starts rotting from the inside out.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 04:58:32 PM
Just a reminder- Illarionov lives in Washington
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 05:07:30 PM
 Illarionov is a smart man to get away from the corrosive effects of the Moscow led filth and Pravda propaganda.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 05:10:15 PM
Just a reminder- Illarionov lives in Washington


He is still holds a Russian passport.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 05:36:19 PM
I know the history of our involvment in Afghanistan very well.  You might be surprised but it was Carter who started this involvement, at the advice of Brzizinski. 


Regarding Carter, he did not start the US covert operations.  He accelerated in July 1979 something that was started in 1973 by the CIA after a Soviet backed group gained partial power.   In the following earlier RWD post, I summarized this period, the period of growing intervention by the Soviets.   Unlike the Soviet intervention in Ukraine, the Soviets were "invited" by the Marxist Afghani government in 1978.

 

-  In a popular rebellion, President I had overthrown the monarchy in 1973.  He was  slowly turning away from communism, and  was murdered (along with his family) in 1978.   

-  A Marxist assumed the presidency (President II) and he quickly developed close relations with the Soviets and started a program of  Soviet-style reforms.  This created rebellion and President II asked for Soviet military support, yet little came. 
President II was soon overthrown and killed in 1979.   

-  The new president (President III) faced an even larger rebellion by his countrymen and was killed by the Soviets in 1979, essentially coinciding with full deployment of Soviet military forces in Afghanistan in December 1979. 

Also, between the murder of President I and President II, the US Ambassador to Afghanistan was murdered.



BTW, I was in Afghanistan in 1977 and have followed its tumultuous history, although I need a scorecard and program.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 05:48:10 PM
The CIA operation to arm and finance the Mujahideen was both covert and huge.  Wiki states, the program "...was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding began with $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987. 

We could do the same today in Ukraine. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 05:53:07 PM

He is still holds a Russian passport.
so? Russia allows to keep Russian citizenship
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 05:54:37 PM
So even if he is in Washington, he travels to Russia frequently, on a Russian passport.  He is no less Russian than are you.  In fact, he left Russia later than you did.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 06:15:18 PM
The CIA operation to arm and finance the Mujahideen was both covert and huge.  Wiki states, the program "...was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding began with $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987. 

We could do the same today in Ukraine.

Yes we could, although with a weakling like Obama in office I expect Britain and Canada are going to act first.  One thing we've done which seems to already be a success though is the radars given to Ukraine. 

I suspect that is what they used here:

http://maidantranslations.com/2014/11/23/wings-phoenix-about-that-high-precision-weapon-at-donetsk-airport/

(link already posted by Mike upthread)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on November 23, 2014, 06:18:06 PM
The CIA operation to arm and finance the Mujahideen was both covert and huge.  Wiki states, the program "...was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding began with $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987. 

We could do the same today in Ukraine.
Maybe you need another Charlie Wilson ;):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kxpKLpGCL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 06:54:23 PM
So even if he is in Washington, he travels to Russia frequently, on a Russian passport.  He is no less Russian than are you.  In fact, he left Russia later than you did.
Doesn't matter
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 07:00:16 PM
Then why did you raise it initially?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 07:18:31 PM
Because she thought she could put a spin on it until it failed..  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 08:10:48 PM
Then why did you raise it initially?
I was not me  who posted the link on Illariononv. I googled him
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 08:11:59 PM
Because she thought she could put a spin on it until it failed..  :crackwhip:
somebody posted the link ( again)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 23, 2014, 08:30:23 PM
Maybe you need another Charlie Wilson ;):

Unlikely in my opinion.  He was an extraordinary man to have pulled this off.  A remarkable CIA case officer also was instrumental.  Even more important, the Republicans and Democrats worked better together then and Charlie made it happen. 

Charlie Wilson led a wild private life, a known ladies' man.  His nickname was "Good Time Charlie."  His overwhelmingly religious district re-elected him 12 times.  Charlie explained this inconsistency, saying his voters did not want a "constipated monk."

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 23, 2014, 08:33:23 PM
Maybe you need another Charlie Wilson ;):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kxpKLpGCL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

Agree 100%
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 08:53:07 PM
:crackwhip: :crackwhip: :crackwhip: :crackwhip: :crackwhip:
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/webkit-fake-url://60892E11-CB38-4D75-A9D0-BECF4AD191C8/imagejpeg)(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/webkit-fake-url://615858A5-7613-4BDC-801F-9B5A98D42942/imagejpeg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 08:56:08 PM

Doll, I was referring to this -

Just a reminder- Illarionov lives in Washington


Yes, he lives in Washington, but he was a government advisor for a lengthy period, and still holds Russian citizenship.  As I understand, he travels to Russia frequently as part of his work.  So, I don't think the fact he lives in Washington means he doesn't understand Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 08:58:07 PM
Doll, I was referring to this -


Yes, he lives in Washington, but he was a government advisor for a lengthy period, and still holds Russian citizenship.  As I understand, he travels to Russia frequently as part of his work.  So, I don't think the fact he lives in Washington means he doesn't understand Russia.
he says what Washington wants him to say
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 09:03:39 PM
Ummm Yah sure..  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:11:33 PM
he says what Washington wants him to say


Is that Democrat Washington, Republican Washington, or the libertarian position (the Cato Institute professes to be libertarian)?


If the latter, it is not saying what Washington wants.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 23, 2014, 09:13:24 PM

Is that Democrat Washington, Republican Washington, or the libertarian position (the Cato Institute professes to be libertarian)?


If the latter, it is not saying what Washington wants.
doesn't matter
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 23, 2014, 09:38:13 PM
What doesn't matter?  That it is libertarian?


If you read academic papers, you will note that most academics do not follow Washington's perspectives. Most American think tanks are vying for influence among policy makers, not vice versa.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 23, 2014, 10:34:19 PM
he says what Washington wants him to say
Russians don't understand Freedom of Speech in the West.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:42:12 PM
doesn't matter

What she means is that anyone who disagrees with Putin is now the enemy.  End of story.  Right Doll?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 23, 2014, 10:47:18 PM
AC, something about your avatar photo is 'distracting'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 23, 2014, 10:55:43 PM
AC, something about your avatar photo is 'distracting'.

You like to be distracted?    ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 23, 2014, 11:24:29 PM
An update on the affect of sanctions makes interesting reading.
AC--just read between the lines and you will get the jist of the story !!  ( to point out what should be obvious--many do not follow links or translate material in links).This type of story  illustrates that sanctions are impacting on the population at large-- and in time the negative impact will develop a groundswell of opinion against Putins policies and make Russians see the distaste for Russian behaviour.
It is one part of the jigsaw that can rid the world of Putin and his cronies.

In brewing "hungry" revolt: prices are rising, and the Kremlin wants to feed people krokodylyatynoyu
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rosiyi-nazrivaye-golodniy-bunt-cini-rostut-a-kreml-hoche-nagoduvati-lyudey-krokodilyatinoyu-393309.html

Of "choking" through sanctions, cheap oil, the fall of the ruble and increase spending on the war. TSN.ua

In looming huge social rebellion against Kremlin Sanctions cheap oil, the ruble, falling and rising cost of the war drag Russia into the bottom. The ruble has lost a third of its value. Oil from the beginning of the year fell to $ 26. Falling for every dollar - a minus two billion in the Russian budget. Therefore Kremlin knows not dorahuyetsya 52 billion this year. This is stated in the plot TSN.Tyzhden . In addition, elopement capital by the end of the year will be 128 billion dollars. And despite the fact that the loss of even 90 billion economists called irreversible catastrophe.
See also: Twitter banter with reacted to panic: Russia rose from his knees and ran for buckwheat So the budget of all social programs, pensions and wages already cut.
 I have to admit that the Russian economy - Putin can not afford. Most Russians see it every day - at price tags in stores. Sanctions cheap oil and the fall of the ruble drag Russia into the bottom   Another two months because of international sanctions have become almost a national pride of Russians - they were happy, scared poplars and Iskander and strongly praised the wise head of the Kremlin. Russian press talked about race and trained notable producers, which can easily replace all prohibited importation of products. And the benefits of such bans called apparent. Foie game found in Vladimir, in Valaam - monks, who promised to cook Orthodox mozzarella and rykottu and Mordovia cows put Celentano, give inspiration to those for milk parmesan.
All this exotic a la Russe on the shelves of supermarkets in Moscow we found. Read more: On Russian TV channels continue to tell the horrors of the Ukrainian army At the Muscovite Alexander going to monitor the Moscow supermarket. "Vegetables rose 20 percent," - said the man. I have changed residence - British apples imported from Belarus. Salmon were suddenly catch somewhere near Brest. "Previously it cost 120-130 rubles per pack, and now - 300 rubles, or twice the price" - says Alexander. Perekleyuvaty stickers and did not re-export or Camembert cheese - even two months ago, he was now remains milked, new is brought. On the shelves of Russian and very similar to it, at least visually, cheese with foreign names. Suddenly Russian buckwheat and salt were deficient and also beat price records. Some stores give the country a maximum of five packs of buckwheat in hand. They say - crop failure. "In general, of course, the cost of food basket has increased, according to our family estimates, 50 percent" - said Moscow resident Alexander. The Russians started to count every penny. Complain that zdorozhchalo all, especially meat and "milk". And not just imported. Russian products are unpatriotic and lifted her up prices.
 Putin's electorate, which in Crimea capture the Kremlin has promised to forgive everything suddenly began to complain in unison control services and newspapers - the salary is not live. Newspapers in response abound tips on how to survive the crisis and come out of it victorious, how to spend the winter in warm areas without money and where to spend the last.

Read also: Norway froze political cooperation with Russia because of its aggression in Ukraine Dmitry Potapenko - known retailer in Russia - the owner of the supermarket chain. Recently live main propaganda channel decided vyvalyty whole truth and just dipped Russian urapatriotiv into a deep depression. Actually, with the presenter, who did not want pidihruvaty, stating that the current troubles blame themselves. Shelves have not emptied for imports from Ukraine and Europe replaced products from third countries. But the main revelation known retailer is different: the so-called Russian national product actually exists. Russian chicken eggs begins with German as local beef and 90% of livestock and crop production in Russia. His contribution to the so-called import substitution made smugglers - they present ideal conditions. Meat being taken to Russia under the guise of gum and jelly. Greek peaches delivered from Macedonia, popular Polish apples - Serbian and Norwegian fish and seafood - from the Faroe Islands and Greenland. In December, according to experts, everything goes up vidstokiv 20.
But Putin an interesting economy. "In 2015 they increased by 80 percent funding of defense. The money should be taken from somewhere, so have decided to reform health care, reducing hospital doctors. Why was this done? It was necessary to reduce the army and the police," - said economist Vladimir Perevyerzyev. Doctors are preparing for the end of November riot, and business people packing their bags. According to their account Kremlin wants to finance its economic bloopers introduction of new taxes - such as going to a quarterly business with real estate taxes, which they use. The list got taxis, hairdressers, cafes, garages and even pay toilets. Read also: Russia recognized the aggressive police state №1 in the world "The social explosion could happen very soon. Maybe in six months. I do not think we will have a Square, but something did happen" - predicts economist Vladimir Perevyerzyev.
Meanwhile, "Rosselkhoznadzor" that prydyravsya to Ukrainian pork and found how to fill empty shelves and allowed to import Russian crocodile meat and carcasses Indian buffalo. South Africa and Namibia Russians offer to buy meat of wild African antelope. This is not the distant future - one of the Filipino farms already shivering first batch of crocodiles. They say, strengthens the immune system. Russian housewives already advised where to find recipes and demonstrate that crocodile meat like chicken. But even frozen reptile will afford only wealthy. Prices serious bite by crocodiles. And that's just the impact of sanctions. The fall of the ruble Russians feel completely in December.

TSN reporter Margaret Sytnyk
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rosiyi-nazrivaye-golodniy-bunt-cini-rostut-a-kreml-hoche-nagoduvati-lyudey-krokodilyatinoyu-393309.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 23, 2014, 11:59:00 PM
If that's factual then Russia is in much more of a hurting condition than they let on. Doll may be right about them eating dirt soon. We already know that even a staple like buckwheat is missing from the store shelves.

 The junta in power may have serious problems staying in power with their own Maidan revolution looming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 24, 2014, 12:01:53 AM
Russians don't understand Freedom of Speech in the West.
Hahaha remember Edward Snowden
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 24, 2014, 12:18:58 AM
Hahaha remember where Stalin's own daughter is?  :clapping:

 Where was Putins daughter until Dada invaded UA and his minions shot down the airliner with 298 souls on board?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 24, 2014, 12:43:06 AM
Hahaha remember where Stalin's own daughter is?  :clapping:

 Where was Putins daughter until Dada invaded UA and his minions shot down the airliner with 298 souls on board?
how is it linked?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 24, 2014, 01:14:51 AM
They fled Russia the same as you did.
 Snowden fled the US for 'stealing state secrets'.


Russia is getting good at allowing criminals in for amnesty. Putin gave citizenship to V.Yanukovych and his band of thieves.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 24, 2014, 02:07:11 AM
he says what Washington wants him to say

Just as you say what huilo wants ordinary Russians to say... :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on November 24, 2014, 06:05:42 AM
Russia is getting good at allowing criminals in for amnesty. Putin gave citizenship to V.Yanukovych and his band of thieves.
That could be only temporary...
http://tsn.ua/politika/rosiyskiy-deputat-hoche-zdati-ukrayini-poplichnikiv-yanukovicha-yaki-osili-v-rf-393397.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 24, 2014, 11:28:03 AM
Dear, I am not talking of myself- I am trying to explain why Putin is doing what he he doing. You don't feel him because of mentality


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 24, 2014, 11:37:26 AM
A young face of a young Russian soldier sacrificed for Putin's folly:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=647110912063840&set=gm.580726295386462&type=1


Addition: cargo-200 Andriyanov Sergej Viktorovich; 27.03.1994-not earlier and not later 23.08.2014 28.08.2014; c. Sunflower Borsky district, Samara Oblast; v/h 137PDP 41450 (Ryazan) from here (in comments): http://vk.com/wall-33504019_269528 quote: Daria Prosina (03.09.18:46): Medical Certification-this is false. September 2, 2014 We buried a soldier the military part 41450 (Ryazan) Andriyanova Sergey Viktorovich. The guy was 20 years old. The certificate of death, place of death stated: "PARA a TEMPORARY DISLOCATION of MILITARY UNIT 41450"? of? of? of? of? of? of? Sergei died (this can be seen clearly on the external examination) on the documents he was supposed to be on maneuvers in Thule, and the body and some documents about the death of the Rostov region were represented. All of this is questionable, and guesses that the soldier was not in training and in combat on the territory of Ukraine. Sergei took 5 days and very upset and annoyed that being in such elite AIRBORNE TROOPS "did not bother to wash, dress appropriately as a warrior-marine and instead Berz put rubber flip flops. And the question is whether mothers sending their sons to the army of??
 Kirill Kravchenko (07.09.15:34): Daria, the cause of death is what? It stripped, searched the relatives? What kind of damage the body?
 Daria Prosina (07.09.16:32): Cyril, relatives are not examined, because it took 5 days and no longer wanted to torture him. The cause of death, the blind fragmental wound with a direct hit to the heart.
 End of quote. (Translated by Bing)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 25, 2014, 02:01:38 PM
Donetsk women give terrorists two months to leave town

 
In Donetsk on Monday, November 24, a protest took place against the lack of food and social security benefits by the so-called “female opposition battalion” demanding that the terrorists leave town within two months. Similar protests demanding that  the Russians leave have also taken place in other cities in the Donbas, Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for the National Security Council, reported at a press briefing,  November 25.

“In the temporarily occupied territories of the Donbas, resistance by the local residents is growing and becoming better organized. In particular, in Donetsk another demonstration has taken place that was organized by the so-called united women’s opposition battalion,” Lysenko said.

“Local women are outraged by the present situation where there is a lack of food and the absence of any social security from the terrorist authorities as well as the distribution of counterfeit money by the DNR authorities that no store will accept,” he added.

“The protest movement activists have given an ultimatum to the so-called prime minister of DNR demanding that (his people) get out of town within two months,” he said.

Lysenko noted that over the past several days similar protests by local residents have also taken place in Amvrosiyivka, Sverdlovsk, Chervonopartyzansk and Rovenky in the Luhansk Oblast.

“In addition, in the occupied towns of Fashchivka, Chornukhino and Krasnyi Luch, where Russian troops have positioned Grad multiple rocket launchers in the midst of residential neighborhoods in order to fire at ATO forces, local residents have come out with makeshift weapons demanding that the Russians leave their cities and remove all their weapons,” he reported


http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/25/donetsk-women-give-terrorists-two-months-to-leave-town/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 25, 2014, 08:25:55 PM
Former chief economic adviser of Russian President Vladimir Putin and CATO Institute member, Andrey Illarionov served as the president’s personal representative in the G-8, and is one of Russia’s most forceful and articulate advocates of an open society and democratic capitalism.

"Russian citizens have been zombied. It is a fact that many Russians citizens have been brainwashed. It is a fact of life. And it is quite striking to observe for Russian citizens how propaganda can the change the perceptions of millions of people just in front our very own eyes, in a very short period of time. Lets be clear- this (conflict) is war, in the very clear meaning of this word. All these psychological warfares are not just against Russians citizens, but against peoples all over the world. This is Mr Putins war against Ukraine as the majority of the Russian people do not support this war, This war has been in preparation for at least 11 years, I never thought these crazy decisions I heard would ever become a real war. ....and at the very end the plan is to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine in the region southeast of Kyiv. This war has been very long in preparation."


Russian insider says Putin openly planned invasion of Ukraine since 2003
2014/11/25 • News EUROMAIDAN PRESS by *** Babiak

A former Russian insider says he was there when Putin began openly planning the present invasion of Ukraine back in 2003.

At a conference in Brussels this week, Andrey Illarionov, a Russian economist and former economic advisor to Vladimir Putin informed that the invasion of Ukraine has been in official planning since at least 2003.

“Since 2003. I can say that certain questions relating to the future war with Ukraine were discussed in my presence. I didn’t think the talks would really lead to a real war,” he said.

In an anguished response to the Orange Revolution a year later which brought about an ostensibly pro-Western government, Russian officials then began discussing the potential for launching a military occupation of Crimea and it’s subsequent annexation. Illarionov also discussed leaked documents which detail the operation of Russia’s future war with Ukraine.

By 2009, he stated that plans to conjure and support separatism in Ukraine began to surface. It is now known that the terrorist organization known as the ‘Donetsk Republic’ began to reassert itself online in 2008 after then Russian-backed Viktor Yanukovych lost his position as Prime Minister. Created in 2005 also in the wake of the Orange Revolution, ‘Donetsk Republic’ members attended training camps in Russia funded by the Russian Presidential Administration, where instructors from the security services taught methods of espionage, sabotage and guerrilla tactics to attendees. Syncing with Illarionov’s statement, the group began organizing local terrorist training camps as early 2009.

Illarionov did not mince words, making clear that this is a very much a “Russian-Ukrainian war” or rather, as he described: “Putin’s war against Ukraine.” A war he steadfastly describes as being long in the works that will continue to play out in the long term.

“So, they were preparing the war for a long time. The other matter is that it is a long war that has been continuing for more than 16 months. It was officially launched on July 27, 2013, by Putin’s speech in Kyiv on the occasion of the anniversary of the baptism of Kyivan Rus,” he said.

The speech cited by Illarionov was on the topic of Ukraine’s “civilizational choice” and “orthodox Slavic values.” In it, Putin bloviates on alleged “common spiritual values” which make Russians and Ukrainians a “single people,” calling for the preservation of ‘ancestral traditions.’ He also convincingly ignores centuries of persecution, telling listeners that subjugation (“union”) under Russia “changed the lives of Ukraine’s population and its elite for the better, as everyone knows.”

At another point, Putin speaks glowingly of Stalin’s reforms and investment in Ukraine during his first ‘Five Year Plan,’ a disastrous policy which resulted in the Moscow-orchestrated genocide of up to 7 million Ukrainians.

Current conflict zones’ historical hallmarks were focused on in the speech, specifically calling the Donbas “one of Russia’s main mining and metals industry regions,” and Odesa “one of the Russian Empire’s biggest seaports.” The next day Putin would attend Russian naval celebrations in the Ukrainian city of Sevastopol in Ukraine.

All of this, of course, amounted to a cynical sales pitch Russia’s unborn Eurasian Union and reunion with Russia, and to convince Ukrainians the perils of European integration. With a smile.

Let me say again that we will respect whatever choice our Ukrainian partners, friends and brothers make. The question is only one of how we go about agreeing on working together under absolutely equal, transparent and clear conditions.

Numerous predictions

Illarionov resigned from his position within the administration in 2005, has been an outspoken critic of president Vladimir Putin since that time.

Since becoming a dissident, his words to date have been prophetic. In October 2008 he quickly exposed that the Russian invasion and occupation of Georgia in August of that year was premeditated and instigated by the Russian government, when many still debated whether Georgia fired on Russian soldiers first.

In February of this year, prior to Russia’s “green men” swarming into Crimea, he fully predicted the occupation of the peninsula and similar destabilizing actions in the south and east. In March, after this had already come to fruition, he further predicted and warned of impending Russian forces seeping into eastern Ukraine during an interview on the Ukrainian network TSN. Russian Col. Igor Girkin, “Supreme Commander” of the Donetsk Republic, openly admitted recently to Russia’s involvement in the war and told how his special forces group entered Ukraine in April to seize government buildings.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/25/russian-insider-says-putin-planning-invasion-of-ukraine-since-2003/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 26, 2014, 02:44:22 AM

Defense Ministry of Russia: There were no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but the families of the dead will receive 5 million rubles

Defense Ministry told about payments to families of victims at the borders of Ukraine
November 26, 2014 1:51  8092  13
As reported on Tuesday,261 November RBC, in the presidential administration passed the next1 Meeting of the Council for Human Rights, the theme of which was the protection of the rights and military assistance to the bereaved families in the service.

 
With defenders met Deputy Defense Minister Nikolai Pankov. He discussed with the Board the issue of payments to the families of those who died during the exercises near the border with Ukraine.

Pankov said that the Russian military did not take part in the fighting in the east of Ukraine, but the death toll "on the exercise", he refused to name, saying only that all the families of the victims will receive offset1. .

Now they can count on payments of approximately five million rubles. The sum consists of two parts: the insured sum of 2 million rubles and benefits of 3 million rubles.

The head of the working group of the Council on the protection of the rights of servicemen Sergey Krivenko noted that now in the military changed the approach to payments. They are no longertie-up1 with titles and ranks.

"Basic pay the same, whether ordinary or general died. Remain differences in benefits and privileges, but a fundamental departure from the old tradition when ordinary life was assessed in one lump sum, and the officer and general - another "- he said.

Krivenko added that 5 million payment to the families of those who died in the Russian army during the last month1 for some official reasons - is the amount required by law, and no fee allegedly for "silence", as well as rumors reached him.

Executive secretary of the Union of Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia Valentina Melnikova said that many families of the victims during a training exercise in the Rostov region in the summer of 2014 has still not received all necessary documents to obtain entitlements. Criticism of human rights in this regard representatives of the Ministry of Defense recognized the fair and gave obescheniya correct errors.

http://tvrain.ru/articles/minoborony_rasskazalo_o_vyplatah_semjam_pogibshih_u_granits_ukrainy-378572/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 26, 2014, 08:04:07 AM


Now they can count on payments of approximately five million rubles. The sum consists of two parts: the insured sum of 2 million rubles and benefits of 3 million rubles.


That is not a small payment.   

For US military members who die while on active duty, insurance pays the survivors $200,000 and the US military pays a $100,000 non-taxable Death Gratuity.   Also, US survivors are eligible for other, smaller payments (e. g., education).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 26, 2014, 05:05:52 PM
Whoops, It seems that they can't handle any more of their "victory". Time for a time out.

Donbas insurgents ask UN to send peacekeepers

Russian-backed insurgent leaders in eastern Ukraine have asked the United Nations to send a peacekeeping force to the region as the humanitarian situation grows dire.

Members of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic said UN peacekeepers are necessary to 'resolve the humanitarian and social situation' that has been deteriorating since insurgents took control of the area back in April.

They've also asked for help to implement a ceasefire deal that was signed by Ukraine, Russia, insurgents and the OSCE back in September in Minsk, Belarus that has been violated repeatedly.

Since the ceasefire was signed, the UN reports over 1,000 people have been killed and Ukraine reports that between 5,000 and 10,000 Russian troops have entered Ukrainian territory.

Earlier this month, Ukrainian authorities were forced to leave government buildings in the east of the country because of threats to staff. Ukrainian authorities also had to cut off welfare payments to residents in insurgent-controlled territory because the security situation made it impossible to get money to residents.

Ukraine had requested peacekeepers from the United Nations back in April but was told by Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon that it was not practical. Any UN peacekeeping deployment must be approved the Security Council which Russia is a member and holds veto power.


http://uatoday.tv/politics/don...ekeepers-393715.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 26, 2014, 05:10:15 PM
Kyiv reports drop in regular Russian forces in Donbas
 
Over a thousand Russian soldiers leave Ukraine, National Security and Defense Council

According to a Facebook update on the page of Ukraine's Anti-Terrorist Operation on Tuesday the number of Russian troops in occupied eastern Ukraine has dropped by about 1,000. According to the statement "Instead of [using] regular Russian units, the self-proclaimed republics are trying to create their own armed forces units."

Russia denies sending troops and armour into east Ukraine, despite a growing tome of powerful evidence.

Russian leader Putin similarly denied that Russian troops annexed Ukraine's territory of Crimea in March, but later admitted that they were deployed to lead the land-grab.

Last week, Igor Girkin, a former Russian military intelligence officer and former leader of the insurgency in the Donbas region, claimed he and an elite platoon of Russian troops instigated the bloody conflict, which has claimed approaching 5000 lives

http://uatoday.tv/politics/kyiv-reports-drop-in-regular-russian-forces-in-donbas-393812.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 26, 2014, 05:27:16 PM
AK-- I think this is most likely a rotational issue--not a withdrawal.  Time will tell us more.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 26, 2014, 06:05:47 PM
Cross your fingers!

 This coupled with the other post saying that the terrorists are asking for UN Peacekeepers makes me wonder if Russia has decided to back out.  :popcorn:

 Time will tell!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 26, 2014, 06:07:48 PM
Cross your fingers!

 This coupled with the other thread, in Bad News, saying that the terrorists are asking for UN Peacekeepers makes me wonder if Russia has decided to back out.  :popcorn:

 Time will tell!

Not possible!  There are no Russians in Donbass - don't you listen to Putin?   :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 26, 2014, 06:30:04 PM
Oh Dear, silly me I must have been having a nightmare based on reality huh?  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 27, 2014, 02:16:33 AM
Ukraine has filed three lawsuits in the European Court against Russian government of Ukraine has filed three lawsuits in the European Court of Human Rights and the International Court # UN against the Russian Federation. This on Facebook November 26 wrote Prime Yatsenyuk. "We demand compensation for trillions of losses caused by Ukraine. Also, we have initiated the process of attracting Russian accountable in an international court for violation of the UN Convention on the fight against terrorism. The Russian Federation is funding terrorism in Ukraine, support of terrorists and violates the Convention on the fight against terrorism, "- said Yatsenyuk. # Yatsenyuk
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 27, 2014, 07:17:56 AM
Ukraine has filed three lawsuits....against the Russian Federation.

Any idea how this will be litigated, the likelihood that any awards be paid for the damages in east Ukraine?   My guess is zero probability.

My consulting company provided expert testimony for some of Kuwati's claims against Iraq for damages caused in the 1990 invasion.  The claims were addressed in the UN Compensation Commission.   Some payments were made from Iraq's oil revenues, and I believe this funding mechanism was established as part of the cease fire treaty with Iraq in 1991.

In contrast, Russia says it has not invaded east Ukraine, and even if such were proven, Russia surely would never sign a treaty requiring it to set aside oil revenues to compensate Ukraine.

Crimea?   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 27, 2014, 05:34:12 PM
Any idea how this will be litigated, the likelihood that any awards be paid for the damages in east Ukraine?   My guess is zero probability.

My consulting company provided expert testimony for some of Kuwati's claims against Iraq for damages caused in the 1990 invasion.  The claims were addressed in the UN Compensation Commission.   Some payments were made from Iraq's oil revenues, and I believe this funding mechanism was established as part of the cease fire treaty with Iraq in 1991.

In contrast, Russia says it has not invaded east Ukraine, and even if such were proven, Russia surely would never sign a treaty requiring it to set aside oil revenues to compensate Ukraine.

Crimea?
No doubt this is a future issue.Crystal balling on it-- I can see a scenario where the time will come of Russia's capitulation as a result of Putin overplaying his hand and Russia being forced to pay.
That would be the ultimate irony-Putin set out to wage war and invade Ukraine in an attempt to break Ukraine( both economically and politically) and as a result it is what could happen to Russia itself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 27, 2014, 06:18:51 PM
BUT you can't get blood out of a turnip. If they're broke they can't and won't pay no matter what any court says.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 28, 2014, 10:18:07 AM
Ukraine has filed three lawsuits in the European Court against Russian government of Ukraine has filed three lawsuits in the European Court of Human Rights and the International Court # UN against the Russian Federation. This on Facebook November 26 wrote Prime Yatsenyuk. "We demand compensation for trillions of losses caused by Ukraine. Also, we have initiated the process of attracting Russian accountable in an international court for violation of the UN Convention on the fight against terrorism. The Russian Federation is funding terrorism in Ukraine, support of terrorists and violates the Convention on the fight against terrorism, "- said Yatsenyuk. # Yatsenyuk

"losses caused by Ukraine?"  Proofread your posts!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 12:06:29 PM
Ohh Good catch  :clapping: . I think we all missed it although we understood anyway.  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on November 28, 2014, 01:28:32 PM
Gazeta.ru reported this evening that oil prices dropped down to $66 a barrel on the New York markets. The tone of the several articles published on the topic today is approaching panic. It is starting to sink in that this is likely more than a blip. It is truly a "Made in Russia" crisis as one of their pieces put it. Russia will be hit by lower prices that might cost the country half-a-billion or so per day (or more if prices drop even further) and that with capital flight, sanctions and reforms that were never carried out will cost the economy dearly...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 01:34:41 PM
The Ruble is dropping also.. 49.90 to the dollar.

Arrival of a Canadian Air Force plane delivering equipment for Ukraine's armed forces, tonight, in Kyiv Boryspil airport.   :welcome: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 02:03:57 PM
Bummer Vlad!  :cluebat:


So the main news driving trading on Friday was a decision made Thursday by the OPEC oil cartel to keep production at 30 million barrels a day. That announcement hit oil prices hard as traders expect the global supply of oil to stay high. Crude oil slumped 8 percent to $67.46 in the late afternoon.  :o

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/29/business/daily-stock-market-activity.html?_r=0

The ruble went down to 49.52 against the dollar by 12:30 MSK Friday, weaker than the previous close at 49.28 rubles per dollar. The ruble’s rate to the euro has hit a record 61.63.  :snivel:

Russian dependence on oil exports makes the ruble and ruble-denominated assets vulnerable to changes in the oil price.

http://rt.com/business/209659-russian-index-record-low/

Gazprom is so poor that the Russian government felt sorry for them and thanks to their generosity Gazprom doesn't have to pay tax for 15 years... (:)


http://inforesist.org/putin-na-15-let-osvobodil-gazprom-ot-nalogov/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 28, 2014, 02:11:12 PM
The Ruble is dropping also.. 49.90 to the dollar.

Arrival of a Canadian Air Force plane delivering equipment for Ukraine's armed forces, tonight, in Kyiv Boryspil airport.   :welcome: :clapping: :clapping:

Our (civilian) volunteer medical teams are now in theatre as well.  :clapping:

I see Mother Corp still insists on calling Russia's invasion a "revolution" though. :rolleyes:

Canadian surgeons reconstruct people wounded in Ukraine's revolution

..."Medical team on mission to help those injured in violent conflict

Dr. Oleh Antonyshyn hauls two large black cases onto a luggage cart at Toronto's Pearson International Airport. He unzips one of them to reveal an assortment of medical devices and surgeon's tools.

"Saws, drills, power equipment, surgical foam, titanium mesh," he says. "All the devices we need to put facial bones and fractured hands back together again."

Antonyshyn, a plastic surgeon and head of the craniofacial program at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto, and a team of 24 other surgeons, nurses and doctors volunteered for a 10-day mission this month to Ukraine. There, they helped mend the wounded from nearly a year of revolution and violent conflict.

Casualties, one as young as 16, were still wearing the scars of the fight to overthrow former president Viktor Yanukovich and then the war with pro-Russian separatists in the east.

"Can't wait," says Antonyshyn, the son of Ukranian immigrants to Canada."...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadian-surgeons-reconstruct-people-wounded-in-ukraine-s-revolution-1.2847053

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 02:34:57 PM
On a similar note,

For a $300 annual commitment (one-time annual gift or $25 monthly installments), we can help a wounded soldier pay for medical equipment, medicine, clothing, food and other necessities.

Adopt a Wounded Ukrainian Soldier

http://www.uuarc.org/our-progr...d-ukrainian-soldier/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 28, 2014, 04:36:06 PM
The Ruble is dropping also.. 49.90 to the dollar.

Arrival of a Canadian Air Force plane delivering equipment for Ukraine's armed forces, tonight, in Kyiv Boryspil airport.   :welcome: :clapping: :clapping:

I also applaud Canada for doing more than any other nation to help Ukraine in this dark hour.  I eagerly await a new Republican Congress in January and sincerely hope they will finally give real weapons to this country so they can properly defend their sovereign territory against the Russian invasion.

And I also hope and pray that the triple whammy of low oil prices, a plunging Ruble and continued economic sanctions might help the Zombies in Russia to finally wake-up and smell the coffee.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 28, 2014, 04:59:27 PM
Gazeta.ru reported this evening that oil prices dropped down to $66 a barrel on the New York markets. The tone of the several articles published on the topic today is approaching panic. It is starting to sink in that this is likely more than a blip. It is truly a "Made in Russia" crisis as one of their pieces put it. Russia will be hit by lower prices that might cost the country half-a-billion or so per day (or more if prices drop even further) and that with capital flight, sanctions and reforms that were never carried out will cost the economy dearly...

I just wonder how the Russian Oligarchs feel who might be able to enact regime change in Russia.  I expect the most powerful ones are whispering plots right now.

 :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 28, 2014, 05:10:49 PM
Jay:
'...Defense Ministry of Russia: There were no Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but the families of the dead will receive 5 million rubles..'

Makes me laugh- so absurd, and it says a lot about Moscow's deception. Funny but sad.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 05:27:49 PM
Aww Shucks Guys.. Oil might drip to new lows..

Russia might have a problem.  :eeekk:

Oil could plummet to $35 a barrel next year if OPEC doesn't reach an agreement by the spring, oil price tracker Tom Kloza said Wednesday.

The founder of Oil Price Information Services told CNBC's "Squawk Box" that he expects at least a "lip service agreement" from OPEC members Thursday, when they meet to discuss output, but the members will largely ignore it, creating a bigger crisis in about six months.

"When you look at the second half of 2015, that's when you see oil beginning to dwarf demand by about a million, a million and a half barrels a day," he said. "Thirty-five dollars is a possibility if they don't get an agreement next spring because that's when the oil really starts to build and you can have a billion barrels of oil with really no place to put it."




http://www.cnbc.com/id/102219498
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 28, 2014, 05:55:05 PM
Why isn't Doll here to gloat about how that midget president is making the economy of her country sooooo very strong?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 28, 2014, 05:57:23 PM
Her silence says a lot! :crackwhip: :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 28, 2014, 06:46:59 PM
I also applaud Canada for doing more than any other nation to help Ukraine in this dark hour.  I eagerly await a new Republican Congress in January and sincerely hope they will finally give real weapons to this country so they can properly defend their sovereign territory against the Russian invasion.

And I also hope and pray that the triple whammy of low oil prices, a plunging Ruble and continued economic sanctions might help the Zombies in Russia to finally wake-up and smell the coffee.


 :clapping:     :clapping:      :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 29, 2014, 11:11:17 AM
Aww Shucks Guys.. Oil might drip to new lows..

Russia might have a problem.  :eeekk:

Oil could plummet to $35 a barrel next year if OPEC doesn't reach an agreement by the spring, oil price tracker Tom Kloza said Wednesday.

The founder of Oil Price Information Services told CNBC's "Squawk Box" that he expects at least a "lip service agreement" from OPEC members Thursday, when they meet to discuss output, but the members will largely ignore it, creating a bigger crisis in about six months.

"When you look at the second half of 2015, that's when you see oil beginning to dwarf demand by about a million, a million and a half barrels a day," he said. "Thirty-five dollars is a possibility if they don't get an agreement next spring because that's when the oil really starts to build and you can have a billion barrels of oil with really no place to put it."




http://www.cnbc.com/id/102219498

I always like articles that include words like ones highlighted........shows where the 'writers' POV is!!! Where's my crystal ball !!!!  Would be nice to see an 'expect', 'predict' word somewhere there...

I might jump off a cliff if my stocks fall but that could happen only if I follow my crystal ball!! :o
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 11:22:54 AM
That's why they call them oil futures and they predict with available information and trends.

 If they knew for 100% sure they would call it oil history.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 29, 2014, 12:11:16 PM
That's why they call them oil futures and they predict with available information and trends.

 If they knew for 100% sure they would call it oil history.


Don't confuse him with the obvious, Mike.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 29, 2014, 12:48:26 PM
The bad news for Russia is the result of Putin's foolish ambitions. Here's a great article that takes a closer look at Putin's motivations, and his lack of logic.
see:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putin-will-regret-interfering-in-the-donbass/511964.html

a quote from that article:
'...Putin has now lost the initiative that he seized in Crimea by turning the bloody battle over Donbass into an unresolvable stalemate...'
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 29, 2014, 01:58:13 PM
Her silence says a lot! :crackwhip: :crackwhip:
You are right- i am sick of what people say here
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 02:15:46 PM
We're sick of the murder and mayhem that the Kremlin is doing in Ukraine also. You blindly supporting that regime shows your mettle. Enjoy the dirt soup.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 29, 2014, 02:40:47 PM
You are right- i am sick of what people say here

Do you think hubby is going to like Mother Russia when you go back?  Is he also pro-Russian?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 29, 2014, 03:03:40 PM
Putin and the people of Russia need to understand:
The Euromaidan revolution was created by the people of Ukraine, not the governments of the West.

The people of Ukraine choose democracy, freedom, and an end to severe corruption. In Moscow, there is a fake democracy, similar to Yanukovych. In Moscow, freedom of speech is very limited. Do the people of Russia want to own and control the people of Ukraine? Are the people of Ukraine allowed to choose democracy? Russia does not own Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 03:18:36 PM
Russia is the only country at fault in the Ukraine conflict


http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/27/russia-is-the-only-country-at-fault-in-the-ukraine-conflict/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 04:58:57 PM
Food Cards for parts of Russia

Due to falling oil prices and sanctions imposed against Russia and it appeared in the country serious problems with food. So the Russian State Duma mass receives letters of appreciation buckwheat flour and other seemingly quite ordinary goods. The government reacted immediately, the country introduced the card for food, according Patriots Ukraine with reference to the Russian media.

To begin to test the card system will be in four regions of Russia, Saratov, Omsk and Ulyanovsk region and in the Republic of Mordovia. According to the Russian authorities approved a project to buy the cards can only domestically produced goods. Alcoholic beverages and tobacco products in the list of socially important products will not be included, but the cards will buy food for guaranteed low prices, social, writes "Russian planet."

The idea of ​​introducing ration cards belonging to the head of the Ministry of Agriculture of Russia Nikolai Fyodorov. He identified four pilot regions above and termed project start: end 2015.

It is worth noting that the predecessor of the current Minister Alexei Gordeev performed a similar idea in 2008, when Russia invaded Georgia, and in some regions there was a shortage of goods. Then, however, major Western sanctions have not followed, and the situation in grocery stores failed to normalize without such drastic measures, resulting in project administration decided to postpone the cards "for a rainy day." Now, apparently, it was really a day.

It is assumed that the card while delivering not all Russians, but poor. These sponsors enrolled incomplete and large families, single mothers and disabled people of different groups. If successful, the card project in Mordovia, Ulyanovsk, Saratov and Omsk regions, this experience is proposed to extend to the whole of.
translated by google. UA link
http://patrioty.org.ua/u-rosiyi-pochali-vvoditi-produktovi-kartochki/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on November 29, 2014, 05:04:35 PM
Putin and the people of Russia need to understand:
The Euromaidan revolution was created by the people of Ukraine, not the governments of the West.

The people of Ukraine choose democracy, freedom, and an end to severe corruption.

Let us see where this goes in the coming year/s.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 05:22:42 PM
With time and work it'll get there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2014, 11:36:06 PM
Russia Makes A Desperate Plea To The EU

Russia urged the European Union on Saturday to lift sanctions against Moscow and promised to waive its food embargo, but a top EU official rejected such a move as the bloc imposed fresh measures on Ukrainian rebels.

The European Union and the United States imposed economic sanctions on Russia in late July, targeting the Russian energy, banking and defense sectors to punish Moscow's support for rebels in eastern Ukraine, the West's toughest steps yet.

In retaliation, Moscow has banned most Western food imports, worth $9 billion a year.

"We don't expect anything from our European partners. The only thing we expect is for them to leave the meaningless sanctions spiral and move onto the path of lifting the sanctions and dropping the blacklists," Russia's deputy foreign minister, Alexei Meshkov, was quoted as saying by Interfax news agency.

"This, in turn, would allow us to drop our lists."

The gesture from Moscow came as the European Union imposed sanctions on 13 Ukrainians accused of organizing rogue elections in eastern Ukraine on Nov. 2, hitting the separatists and their organizations with asset freezes and travel bans.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-asks-eu-to-lift-sanctions-2014-11#ixzz3KWzrfPKX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 12:04:16 AM
You really can't make this stuff up!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Russia Wants Bulgarians to Stop Vandalizing Soviet Monuments To Look Like American Superheroes

The Moscow Times is reporting that Bulgarian pranksters are repainting Soviet-era monuments so that the Soviet military heroes depicted are recast as American Superheroes (h/t to trans-atlantyk posting at reddit’s /r/worldnews):


Russia is demanding that Bulgaria try harder to prevent vandalism of Soviet monuments, after yet another monument to Soviet troops in Sofia was spray-painted, ITAR-Tass reported.

The Russian Embassy in Bulgaria has issued a note demanding that its former Soviet-era ally clean up the monument in Sofia’s Lozenets district, identify and punish those responsible, and take “exhaustive measures” to prevent similar attacks in the future, the news agency reported Monday.

The monument was sprayed with red paint on the eve of the Bulgarian Socialist Party’s celebration of its 123rd anniversary, the Sofia-based Novinite news agency reported.

The vandalism was the latest in a series of similar recent incidents in Bulgaria — each drawing angry criticism from Moscow…
- See more at: http://disinfo.com/2014/08/russia-wants-bulgarians-stop-vandalizing-soviet-monuments-look-like-american-superheroes/#sthash.31hQs5bW.j2x91a1Y.dpuf
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 30, 2014, 12:33:08 AM
Russia Makes A Desperate Plea To The EU


I wonder if that plea was made while kneeling down...  :-\
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 12:38:00 AM
LOL, I doubt that!  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on November 30, 2014, 01:15:48 AM
Ah, but the irony is that Europe is exporting to Russia via Belarus  :-X  It is even causing a tiff between the two countries as Lukashenko reacted quite strongly to Russia's actions trying to stop the flow of goods, thus undermining the "Eurasian Union." If anything, the sanctions are working better than planned... 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on November 30, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
I wonder if that plea was made while kneeling down...  :-\


As one Russian source that I read a few days ago noted, Russia rose up from its knees scorning the West, in order to kneel before OPEC begging for them to cut production and keep oil prices high... >:D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 05:16:45 AM
We're sick of the murder and mayhem that the Kremlin is doing in Ukraine also. You blindly supporting that regime shows your mettle. Enjoy the dirt soup.
How about Iraq and Iran? You are not sick of it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 05:23:40 AM
Food Cards for parts of Russia


How long has the food stamps system AND welfare  been existing in the USA?
Forever
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 07:00:57 AM
I wonder if that plea was made while kneeling down...  :-\
Who is kneeling down? Russians? Seriously, go read the history of Russia. It has NEVER happened, will never happen. Remember.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 08:39:16 AM
Do Russians hate Ukrainians? Do Russians hate the Tartars? What Putin has done in Ukraine, has pushed most Ukrainians away from him and from Russia. Is that a good thing? Have you read the statement by the Russian, Girkin/Strelkov? He was the leader of the military in Donetsk, and he's a Russian citizen. Look at his statements and Putin's goals become obvious.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 08:47:56 AM
Do Russians hate Ukrainians? Do Russians hate the Tartars?

No and no
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 08:52:12 AM
Photo Guy, how about my question about Iraq and Iran and Americans NOT being sick of it?
None of those countries are even in same half of globe
No sanctions, nothing
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 09:05:13 AM
I'm sick of it, but it is all out in the open. The US and the West are not trying to invade Iraq. ISIL is moving towards Bagdad and there would be a slaughter there if not stopped. I think the United Nations should stop ISIL. Slaughter is a bad thing. The US is not in Iran. The US is not trying to establish a New America in the middle east.

I don't have a problem with food stamps. It's a question of degree- how many food stamps. I think we all want economic prosperity, but Russia is hurting their own people by making people afraid to do business with them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 09:14:16 AM
Putin has said that he would like his country to be 'respected', but how do you respect a country that threatens their neighbors?
1- Putin considers Ukraine to be a part of Russia
2- Putin is angry that the people of Ukraine choose a European political system, rather than a leadership in Moscow

So Putin does not respect the people of Ukraine. Does he respect the people of Mariupol' who mostly speak Russian? No, I do not think so. He wants those people to become a part of 'New Russia'. He does not care about the people of Ukraine who want to be independent from him, from Russia. He wants those ethnic Russians to die, because they reject him and his dictatorship.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 09:20:30 AM
Also, what do Russians think about people in Donetsk or Luhansk, who prefer to be Ukrainian? Those people will run away, or be killed. Is that okay? Have you read any of the statements from Tartars in Crimea? Why does Putin pretend that Russia is not supplying military aid to Donetsk and Luhansk? He is contradicted by Strelkov/Girkin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 10:12:49 AM
I just got this private message from Doll after I sent her a link to the Strelkov/Girkin interview:

пошел ты!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 30, 2014, 11:30:45 AM
I just got this private message from Doll after I sent her a link to the Strelkov/Girkin interview:

пошел ты!



So YOU send Doll a private message, and then she responds to you privately and YOU bring the matter up publicly, and YOU disclose the contents of her private response.....seems like you desperately want to agitate Doll because you don't approve of her opinion.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 11:46:28 AM


I don't have a problem with food stamps. It's a question of degree- how many food stamps. I think we all want economic prosperity, but Russia is hurting their own people by making people afraid to do business with them.
The amount of people on food stamps in the USA is awful
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 11:49:31 AM
I just got this private message from Doll after I sent her a link to the Strelkov/Girkin interview:

пошел ты!


Since when we make private message public?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

So YOU send Doll a private message, and then she responds to you privately and YOU bring the matter up publicly, and YOU disclose the contents of her private response.....seems like you desperately want to agitate Doll because you don't approve of her opinion.


Fathertime!
i reported to moderator
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AnonMod on November 30, 2014, 11:52:50 AM
Public insults stop.  Now.  If you cannot carry on a civil conversation, these threads will be deleted.

See this thread for guidelines.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17793.msg370462#msg370462
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 30, 2014, 12:13:41 PM
i reported to moderator


good...the follow up insulting post by that other member was in poor taste...it looks like moderation has edited out some of the quoted text without our posts.  Your opinion overall is not at all what certain strident members want to read, so they attempt their own version of moderation by attempting to rile/intimidate you....obviously it isn't working!


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on November 30, 2014, 12:16:37 PM
I simply sent Doll a link to an article. That's a no-no?
I will happily refrain from sending her links.
...And I will not curse at anyone here in public or in private.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 12:51:47 PM
I simply sent Doll a link to an article. That's a no-no?
I will happily refrain from sending her links.
...And I will not curse at anyone here in public or in private.
еще раз-пошел нафиг, придурок
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 30, 2014, 04:36:24 PM
The bad news for Russia is the result of Putin's foolish ambitions. Here's a great article that takes a closer look at Putin's motivations, and his lack of logic.
see:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/putin-will-regret-interfering-in-the-donbass/511964.html

a quote from that article:
'...Putin has now lost the initiative that he seized in Crimea by turning the bloody battle over Donbass into an unresolvable stalemate...'

Very interesting footnote...and probably way overdue (not just for this website, but for every other similar one).

Quote from: Moscow Times
Dear reader,

 Due to the increasing number of users engaging in personal attacks, spam, trolling and abusive comments, we are no longer able to host our forum as a site for constructive and intelligent debate.

It is with regret, therefore, that we have found ourselves forced to suspend the commenting function on our articles.

 The Moscow Times remains committed to the principle of public debate and hopes to welcome you to a new, constructive forum in the future.

 Regards,

 The Moscow Times
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 30, 2014, 06:05:43 PM
Who is kneeling down? Russians? Seriously, go read the history of Russia. It has NEVER happened, will never happen. Remember.

Pretty sure they were on their knees when the Mongols invaded and conquered them in the 13th century.
Probably on their knees as well when they were forced to sign that humiliating peace treaty to end the war with Germany in 1917.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 06:46:39 PM
Borispil airport workers “decorate” Russian aircraft

Workers at the Boryspil Airport near Kyiv decorated an Aeroflot Russian Airlines aircraft with graffiti about Putin and Pushkin, reports Espreso TV, November 30.

Using a black marker on the body and engines of the aircraft, they scrawled the famous obscene chant of soccer fans about Putin : “Putin kh**lo.” In addition, they placed the inscription “Russians read your Pushkin. Think” on the sensor of the aircraft, avianews.com reports.

The incident occurred sometime in the evening on November 28, in the parking lot near Terminal D.

As reported by LB.ua, the inscriptions were made by several airport employees. They have been detained by airport security, but it is not known if they have been released yet.

Attempts were made to remove the offensive inscriptions but the work was not completed due to insufficient time.  Therefore, the plane flew to its destination bearing a portion of the chant “Putin kh**lo.”



http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/12/01/borispil-airport-workers-decorate-russian-aircraft/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 30, 2014, 07:04:53 PM
So Putler can afford to fund proxy wars in neighbouring countries, yet he can't afford to fund his own country's health system properly.
Talking about getting your priorities screwed up!

http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-rally-moscow-against-health-care-cuts-121040510.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 08:55:41 PM
Not to mention the loans to the gas company (Roseneft?) from the dedicated pension fund of 40+ Billion USD.

 There's liable to be some old folks PO's when they can only afford dirt and mud.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 30, 2014, 10:28:43 PM

good...the follow up insulting post by that other member was in poor taste...it looks like moderation has edited out some of the quoted text without our posts.  Your opinion overall is not at all what certain strident members want to read, so they attempt their own version of moderation by attempting to rile/intimidate you....obviously it isn't working!


Fathertime!
moderator edited my response but not PG's so everything is clear
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:18:46 PM
How about Iraq and Iran? You are not sick of it?

Do you mean Iraq and Syria?  No I am not sick of it, in fact the sooner we kill more of ISIS the happier I am; as is the rest of the sane world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:25:56 PM
Pretty sure they were on their knees when the Mongols invaded and conquered them in the 13th century.
Probably on their knees as well when they were forced to sign that humiliating peace treaty to end the war with Germany in 1917.


Russia was also on their knees in 1942-1943.  In fact Stalin offered a negotiated settlement to Hitler which would have ceded borders back to what they were in 1914 but Hitler foolishly refused.  Russia is on the brink of serious recession and it's only going to get worse.  1998?  On their knees. 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 30, 2014, 11:36:17 PM
Knee pads and wheelbarrows to carry Roubles would be popular Christmas presents over there this year...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:39:47 PM
Knee pads and wheelbarrows to carry Roubles would be popular Christmas presents over there this year...

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:45:28 PM
You really can't make this stuff up!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Russia Wants Bulgarians to Stop Vandalizing Soviet Monuments To Look Like American Superheroes

The Moscow Times is reporting that Bulgarian pranksters are repainting Soviet-era monuments so that the Soviet military heroes depicted are recast as American Superheroes (h/t to trans-atlantyk posting at reddit’s /r/worldnews):


Russia is demanding that Bulgaria try harder to prevent vandalism of Soviet monuments, after yet another monument to Soviet troops in Sofia was spray-painted, ITAR-Tass reported.

The Russian Embassy in Bulgaria has issued a note demanding that its former Soviet-era ally clean up the monument in Sofia’s Lozenets district, identify and punish those responsible, and take “exhaustive measures” to prevent similar attacks in the future, the news agency reported Monday.

The monument was sprayed with red paint on the eve of the Bulgarian Socialist Party’s celebration of its 123rd anniversary, the Sofia-based Novinite news agency reported.

The vandalism was the latest in a series of similar recent incidents in Bulgaria — each drawing angry criticism from Moscow…
- See more at: http://disinfo.com/2014/08/russia-wants-bulgarians-stop-vandalizing-soviet-monuments-look-like-american-superheroes/#sthash.31hQs5bW.j2x91a1Y.dpuf


It just keeps getting better and better.  As much as the Russians hate America, this must really infuriate the poor bastards.  :popcorn: 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2014, 11:46:10 PM
It's getting much better!

50/1 will seem like a very good deal in a couple of months!
80/1 or 90/1 will be the go to numbers.

Putler is ruining Russia very quickly. Time for another Maidan but in Moscow!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on November 30, 2014, 11:55:08 PM
It's getting much better!

50/1 will seem like a very good deal in a couple of months!
80/1 or 90/1 will be the go to numbers.

Putler is ruining Russia very quickly. Time for another Maidan but in Moscow!

I'm sure you already know it Mike, but that was part of his rationale for invading Ukraine.  Because as Ukraine gets closer to the EU, he was deathly afraid that Russians would also rise up and demand to have a better country modeled more closer to the European model. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AnonMod on December 01, 2014, 01:03:35 AM
The next time I am forced to remove posts, the thread will be closed and warnings issued.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 02, 2014, 03:09:18 AM
This attack is believed to have been bt Russian Special Forces-- they suffered significant losses.
The report--
The enemy again tried to attack the military airport in Donetsk. Reuters Militants again suffered losses in the unsuccessful assault airport During the last days militants in Donbas 41 times with artillery, mortars and multiple rocket launchers tried to attack the forces ATO position in Lugansk, Donetsk and Mariupol Debal'tsevo and directions. This was as of Monday morning, December 1, reports the press center ATO on his page on Facebook. Read more: Near the Donetsk airport is the third time leader wounded fighters "Motorola" - media In particular, according to security officials, volleys of artillery and mortar rounds were heard in the vicinity of settlements Sokolniki, Kryakivka, Crimea, Artem Nyzhnoteple, villages Lugansk, Makarov, Trohizbenka, Happiness, Heyivka, Sands, Donetsk, Avdiyivka, thin, questionnaire, Bohdanivka, Nikishin, Maloorlovka, Debal'tsevo, Novolaspa, Mykolaivka, Pavlopil. In addition, the militants continue to attack Donetsk airport. "For the assault involved a fight Russian detachment of special purpose. Our guys again repulsed the enemy attack. The attackers retreated, taking heavy losses," - stressed the headquarters of ATO.   
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/rosiyski-specpriznachenci-zaznali-velikih-vtrat-pid-chas-nevdalogo-shturmu-kiborgiv-394723.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 02, 2014, 03:17:39 AM
Putin Russians losing confidence
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rosiyi-raptovo-vpav-reyting-putina-394759.html

The Russian leader for a month lost six points trust of citizens. Reuters Putin Russians losing confidence In electoral President Vladimir Putin's rating dropped 6 points - from 88% to 82%. Overall, the number of those willing to presidential election to vote for Putin declined again from the beginning of hostilities in eastern Ukraine. Last fall was recorded in September. See also: Putin wants Ukraine, Russia and the world promuchylysya with him for 10 years - Nemtsov If the presidential election were held next to the RF survey day Sunday, Putin would have voted for 53%, according to the "Levada Center". Among those who have already decided on the choice, prefer the current leader of the Russian Federation expressed 82%. Earlier in October, Putin's electoral rating reached a record high of 88%, the previous peak was reached in August (87%), says RBC .  Deputy Director "Levada Center" Alexei Grazhdankin says that the October increase Putin's rating has been linked to the achievement of formal truce in the Donbas. The survey was conducted November 21-24 among 1,600 people in 134 locations. The statistical error does not exceed 3.4%.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/svit/u-rosiyi-raptovo-vpav-reyting-putina-394759.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 02, 2014, 03:28:13 AM
And more==  some time ago I quoted a figure of 10.000 plus( in response to a forum question)-- piece by piece  information is being confirmed.The figure below on injured would be very conservative--certainly all the hospitals close are full-- and troops were being sent to Saint Petersburg -- I cant see Putin cabable of continueing to sell this to the Russian people for too much longer--the truth has a way of appearing--even to those to thick to interpret!!--Report below--
Score dead Russian soldiers allegedly goes to thousands. Reuters Russia has suffered serious losses during the war in the East "Cyborg" with the call sign "Marshal" , which along with other security forces heroically defends Donetsk airport from enemy forces, described the frantic loss of the Russian army in battles in eastern Ukraine. On his page "Marshall" posted a link to the blog of Oleg Yarchuk , in which he is counting losses of Russian soldiers during the fighting on the territory of Ukraine. The blogger, in particular, wrote about 4672 dead Russian soldiers and 970 wounded. Missing as of December 2, 2014 2560 alleged Russian soldiers.  See also: "Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" showed the mysterious death notification soldier killed in Ukraine "I advise you to read, which is the loss of on the planet! One hundred percent not tell, but judging from the information I know about the attacks on our" adversary "for the war on all fronts, which are not discussed in the news. The colossal loss in them, and that's a fact. I am proud that I am a fighter Ukraine! dill! "- wrote" Cyborg "on his page in the social network Facebook. 
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/kiborg-marshal-rozpoviv-pro-kolosalni-vtrati-rosiyskoyi-armiyi-na-donbasi-395026.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 02, 2014, 05:17:41 AM
It appears bad news comes in threes...

Even the regime is forced to admit the likelihood of a recession next year.
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-warns-recession-next-102222822--finance.html

Rouble collapsed to almost 53 to a dollar.
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-ruble-takes-nosedive-low-oil-prices-080027202--finance.html

South Stream pipeline now scrapped.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gazprom-ceo-says-south-stream-183525486.html

Can the midget president cock things up anymore than what he already has?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 02, 2014, 01:10:32 PM
Putin signed a very telling law, one that specifies that the salaries of civil servants would not be indexed to inflation in 2015. This seems to be and indirect way to deal with the possibility of major budget shortfalls: devalue the currency so you effectively make major cuts to the expenses without having to directly cut salaries or eliminate civil servants (that would include your always growing police force...).


Prices are going up. My sister-in-law was mentioning that grechka went up from 40-or-roubles per kilogram to 70+ roubles...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 02, 2014, 06:23:29 PM
Gator,

You watch the oil industry?  Any predictions for a $60 / per barrel market (or lower)?  If so, that should create some very interesting economic situations - an opportunity to make some real money.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 02, 2014, 07:18:15 PM
Gator,

You watch the oil industry?  Any predictions for a $60 / per barrel market (or lower)?  If so, that should create some very interesting economic situations - an opportunity to make some real money.

I assume you mean only on the rebound?  If and when.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 02, 2014, 08:10:16 PM
More in reference to post above--#735
fwiw-- in any translaation the numbers are clear enough!!
Biryukov: up to 27 Russian SOF & 25-30 militants were killed yesterday in Donetsk airport

Юрий Бирюков
Yesterday at 06:13 ·
Оперативная по Донецкому аэропорту, 20:56 понедельника: в общем, слухи про некий спецназ из России - не слухи. Прибыло несколько десятков каких-то специфических "космонавтов", которые повели массу организмов на штурм.
В общем, если потом россияне будут говорить о нас, как о негостеприимной нации - не удивляйтесь. По данным перехвата СепарРадио - 27 спецназовцев отправились сегодня утром домой, в уютных гробиках. Порядка 25-30 местных организмов тоже закончили свой жизненный путь. Ранены 2 полевых командира - если про эту шваль можно так говорить.
Стоит ли лезть на нашу землю? Нет не стоит, это опасно. Мы гостеприимная нация, но только к друзьям.
Инфо рекомендуется к расшариванию - пусть побольше ваты будет предупреждено о тщетности потуг. Донецкий аэропорт под контролем ВСУ.
Operating in Donetsk airport, 20:56 Monday: in General, the rumors some special forces from Russia, not rumors. Several dozen have any specific "astronauts" who led the mass of organisms in an assault.

In General, if the Russians will then speak about us as about the inhospitable nation-don't be surprised. According to catch SeparRadio-27 special forces went home this morning, the cosy grobikah. Approximately 25-30 local organisms also finished their life path. Field commander-2 injured when about this called so to speak.

Is it worth to go to our land? It's not worth it, it's dangerous. We are a welcoming nation, but only to friends.

Info is sharing their-let more cotton will be informed about the futility of powers. Donetsk airport under the control of the SUPREME COURT.Translated by Bing
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 02, 2014, 11:09:59 PM
closed $ 66.80
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102229304#.

$ 50 a barrel possible

$ 40 possible
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/energy/can-oil-prices-drop-40-barrel-some-say-its-possible-n258946

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 03, 2014, 01:37:54 AM
Donetsk guerrillas continue underground struggle with the Russian-terrorist invaders. VIDEO
Donetsk guerrillas continue underground struggle with the Russian-terrorist invaders. Partizan from Donetsk with the nickname Johan Karlsen has published a progress report on the achievements of Donetsk underground in the fight against pro-Russian gangs occupied the city. "Lord bandits and Russian terrorists. You were warned that night - it is dangerous for your Health? warned. Meanwhile, the guerrilla movement continues to drive it kicks Brownian motion, "- said the report. Horlovks # # Yasinovataya Night continues to take the lives of local bandits, standing alone at checkpoints. Picks up only with a knife in the neck. # MAKEEVKA In the neighborhood green garnet was destroyed by terrorists minibus, which was carrying ammunition. Stupid terrorists, this is clearly not waiting for a long time because shastali throughout the area and were very evil (video - below) # Debaltseve . Well-planned ambush actions and proper planning, making heavy and unsightly life of Russians is much darker. Panic - a great thing, especially if the opponent is well-read in zaparke fun to shoot each other. Under the guise of deprived 2 APCs. Unfortunately, in itself Debaltseve as locality, had ceased to exist. Russian terrorists to the ground destroyed all the buildings. # Partizan http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/9086-doneckie-partizany-p ..
http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/9086-doneckie-partizany-prodolzhayut-podpolnuyu-borbu-s-rossiysko-terroristicheskimi

Partizan from Donetsk with the nickname  Johan Karlsen  posted on Facebook the next report on the achievements of Donetsk underground in the fight against the occupied city of pro-Russian gangs.

"Lord bandits and Russian terrorists. You were warned that night - it is dangerous to your health? Warned. Meanwhile, the guerrilla movement continues to drive it kicks Brownian motion," - said the report.

Horlovks #  # Yasinovataya
Night continues to take the lives of local bandits, standing alone at checkpoints. Picks up only with a knife in the neck.

# MAKEEVKA
In the neighborhood green garnet was destroyed by terrorists minibus, which was carrying ammunition. Stupid terrorists, this is clearly not waiting for a long time because shastali throughout the area and were very evil (video - below)

# Debaltseve .
Well-planned ambush actions and proper planning, making heavy and unsightly life of Russians is much darker. Panic - a great thing, especially if the opponent is well-read in zaparke fun to shoot each other. Under the guise of deprived 2 APCs. Unfortunately, in itself Debaltseve as locality, had ceased to exist. Russian terrorists to the ground destroyed all the buildings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oOMTo2uptY

Published on 29 Nov 2014
As it became known, in Makeyevka, in the neighborhood of Green minibus killed by unknown gunmen. Details are unknown, or threw a grenade, or set on fire, but burned notably, and explosions carried ammunition to unroll the entire area.
Once the machine had burned down Brava militia DNR shakedown at the beginning of a real neighborhood, interrogated local residents and cordoned off the surrounding streets.
On the causes of fire talk is meaningless, in the realities of the occupied territories to know that either it will be extremely difficult, and whether the investigation of the incident? But, we can say with some confidence that the militants nix arranged after the fire was not casual, but because - someone apparently tried.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 03, 2014, 11:35:47 AM
Gator,

You watch the oil industry? 

I watch the business news, so it would be impossible to miss the large downward move in oil prices.   


Quote
Any predictions for a $60 / per barrel market (or lower)?

As I explained here before, the price is a lesson from Natural Resource Economics 101.  Namely, if you own a valuable natural resource in limited supply, discourage competitive supplies from being developed.   

The Saudi goal is to curtail fracking.  Fracking has been successful in the US in reducing our need for imported oil.  Fracking was gaining much momentum,  and in 10 years or so we could be self-sufficient.  Europe is only in the beginning stages of implementing fracking and perhaps eventually could be another huge supply of new sources of oil. 

If OPEC had curtailed production to keep prices high, the fracking and conventional drilling would have continued and produced more supply.  That in turn would drive oil prices down, and in a few years the oil price would be as low as it is today, and OPEC then would have a smaller share of the market (and less revenue than today).

Fracking is expensive, and if the price of oil drops, fracking will not be fully implemented, and Saudi keeps it share of the market.   

How low can oil prices drop?  Fracking costs about $60 to produce a barrel of oil.  So the Saudis need to oversupply the market to get the prices to $50-55/bbl.   I doubt it would go lower than that.  Also, I do not expect dramatic increases for a long time.   

Although the $60/bbl price is hurting the Russian economy, Russia too will benefit over the long term as it is in the same boat as the Saudis.  Russians have the stamina to weather a storm, i. e. a recession.      Also, the conflict in eastern Ukraine surely has delayed fracking of the shale there.   IMO a drop in the price of oil is unwelcome yet will not deter Russia Putin.




 
Quote
If so, that should create some very interesting economic situations - an opportunity to make some real money.



I do not trade oil futures. I consider them a zero sum game, and people much smarter than me would eat my lunch.  I am not a day trader either  as I do not stay glued to my computer screen. 

Shorting is a possibility.  But most of the decline has taken place.  For example, SDRL (a $15 Billion company who drills in the North Sea) was $40 in the summer and is now $13.  Airlines OTOH have jumped, yet there may still be room upwards in the least hedged companies.  They are volatile, and not being a stock jockey I avoid them.

Good luck.  I hope you catch a wave. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 03, 2014, 04:54:01 PM
Intervention by the Bank of Russia has no effect on falling Ruble:


http://online.wsj.com/articles/bank-of-russia-spent-700-million-dec-1-trying-to-ease-ruble-pressure-1417592893
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 04, 2014, 02:27:44 AM
And when it rains, it pours...


Sadly, there are reports that somewhere between 100 and 200 terrorists are now holed up in schools and daycare centres in Grozny. However, that hasn't dampened the mood of Putin's speech, which can be summed up thus: Americans are the source of all evil and we are a great power.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 04, 2014, 08:49:27 AM
It seems even the hookers in Russia are forced to up their prices  due to the collapsing Rouble...

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-30311546

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 04, 2014, 10:29:38 AM
I watch the business news, so it would be impossible to miss the large downward move in oil prices.   


As I explained here before, the price is a lesson from Natural Resource Economics 101.  Namely, if you own a valuable natural resource in limited supply, discourage competitive supplies from being developed.   

The Saudi goal is to curtail fracking.  Fracking has been successful in the US in reducing our need for imported oil.  Fracking was gaining much momentum,  and in 10 years or so we could be self-sufficient.  Europe is only in the beginning stages of implementing fracking and perhaps eventually could be another huge supply of new sources of oil. 

If OPEC had curtailed production to keep prices high, the fracking and conventional drilling would have continued and produced more supply.  That in turn would drive oil prices down, and in a few years the oil price would be as low as it is today, and OPEC then would have a smaller share of the market (and less revenue than today).

Fracking is expensive, and if the price of oil drops, fracking will not be fully implemented, and Saudi keeps it share of the market.   

How low can oil prices drop?  Fracking costs about $60 to produce a barrel of oil.  So the Saudis need to oversupply the market to get the prices to $50-55/bbl.   I doubt it would go lower than that.  Also, I do not expect dramatic increases for a long time.   

Although the $60/bbl price is hurting the Russian economy, Russia too will benefit over the long term as it is in the same boat as the Saudis.  Russians have the stamina to weather a storm, i. e. a recession.      Also, the conflict in eastern Ukraine surely has delayed fracking of the shale there.   IMO a drop in the price of oil is unwelcome yet will not deter Russia Putin.




 


I do not trade oil futures. I consider them a zero sum game, and people much smarter than me would eat my lunch.  I am not a day trader either  as I do not stay glued to my computer screen. 

Shorting is a possibility.  But most of the decline has taken place.  For example, SDRL (a $15 Billion company who drills in the North Sea) was $40 in the summer and is now $13.  Airlines OTOH have jumped, yet there may still be room upwards in the least hedged companies.  They are volatile, and not being a stock jockey I avoid them.

Good luck.  I hope you catch a wave.

Thanks, Gator.

I am neither a day trader or someone who sells short.  But other opportunities present themselves.  My opinions on oil futures mirror your own.  I believe fracking will probably keep the prices down for the next three years, as more and more fields come online.  I also believe that Obama will veto the Keystone Pipeline (yielding some of the purple states to the Republicans in the next cycle).

Investments, for me, are specific investments, not industry investments.  More along the lines of small business activities.  My Russian investments centered around a single individual and his (proven) ability to produce.  A low price per barrel will result in some very sexy and similar (but non-Russian) offerings.

Thanks again, for your response.  I value your business acumen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 04, 2014, 11:16:05 AM
It seems even the hookers in Russia are forced to up their prices  due to the collapsing Rouble...

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-30311546

excerpt
Russian social media commentators are having a field day over the news, with some getting in digs at the authorities. "Putin - learn about the economy from the Murmansk prostitutes", tweets Andrei Negotov. Others, including Alexander Sitnikov on the NTV website, think the prostitutes should show some patriotism and "raise their rates for foreigners, in reply to sanctions".

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 04, 2014, 03:14:25 PM
I don't like seeing the Russian economy weaken, because that hurts all of their citizens, except for the rich. All of the pain comes from Putin's dumb decision to fuel the war in the Donbas region of Ukraine. Fear and hatred do not help Ukrainians or Russians....  And I'm sick of Putin blaming the USA. Ukrainians are the ones who choose Poroshenko and movement towards the EU, democracy, etc. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 04, 2014, 05:39:25 PM
If Nuremberg means anything, all of them must suffer until they give him up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 06, 2014, 12:28:36 AM
The total number of deaths in the Donbas Russian soldiers than 4 thousand.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/blizko-300-voyak-rf-zaginuli-za-dva-dni-shturmu-poziciy-kiborgiv-u-donecku-pravozahisniki-395225.html

During the first two days of December Russia army suffered serious losses in the Donbas - over the past day during the  attacks on the Donetsk airport killed about 300 Russian soldiers. This is reported by human rights organizations of "load-200 from Ukraine to Russia." Human rights activist Elena Vasileva in his blog published statistics on the losses of the Russian army in recent days. During the last day in the battle for the Donetsk airport killing 299 Russian soldiers have 190 injured, 96 of whom are seriously injured. See also: "Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" was named the number of dead Russian soldier fighting in the Donbas "The total loss of military units involved in collisions, part of the 16th Brigade Special Purpose GRU General Staff of the Russian Federation, parts 200th Brigade Special Purpose PVO (Rostov), ​​Battalion and tank company of the 4th Guards Kantemirovskoyi separate tank brigade, battalion, 22nd separate brigade of GRU of the General Staff of the Russian Federation, assault mouths 106th Guards Airborne Division. Killed - 299 were wounded - 190 (96 of them seriously) "- leads Vasiliev statistics for loss of yesterday. Yesterday Debaltseve and Russian soldiers died on the 32nd Infantry Brigade TSVO (place of dislocation - Novosibirsk region, Shilov). Human rights activists say the two killed and 11 wounded soldiers. During the first of December in the area Avdeevki the Donetsk region, where units were concentrated 36-th separate motorized rifle brigade and battalion consolidated subdivisions 37th separate motorized rifle brigade (both of Buryatia) killed 16 military RF, injured 22 more. Gorlovka Donetsk region soldiers 67th anti-air defense artillery brigade were covered by fire fighters in response to the Armed Forces. Russians were killed 22, wounded 20 more. In the battles of Mykolaivka was killed by a Russian soldier of the 288 th Artillery Brigade Western District. Another six Russians were injured. In addition, according to human rights activists on 30 November in the battle for the airport in Donetsk killed about 200 Russian soldiers. Overall, the fighting in the Donbas 4672 Russian soldiers were killed, wounded 970. Another 2560 people listed as missing, according to human rights activists. As previously reported, Cyborg "Marshall" spoke about the huge losses of the Russian army in Donbas.   
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/blizko-300-voyak-rf-zaginuli-za-dva-dni-shturmu-poziciy-kiborgiv-u-donecku-pravozahisniki-395225.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 06, 2014, 07:31:52 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-bans-black-player-reacting-racism-131414481.html

And yet THE MIDGET is labelling the Kiev government as Nazi fascists.
Maybe he should have sorted out his own backyard first before criticizing others...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 07, 2014, 10:35:41 PM
Fun fun and more fun!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 08, 2014, 08:01:26 AM
This hasn't hit the mainline media just a couple of fringe websites reporting it so I really hope it's accurate and not more wackadoodle conspiracy stuff from websites like the Center for Research on Globalization.

Anyways, it looks as though the U.S. House of Representatives has taken the first step towards assisting Ukraine with lethal defensive weaponry

Resolution 758 passed in the house 4 Dec 14...

"...(10)calls on the President to provide the Government of Ukraine with lethal and non-lethal defense articles, services, and training required to effectively defend its territory and sovereignty;...

More excerpts from the resolution...

..."H. RES. 758

In the House of Representatives, U. S.,

December 4, 2014

RESOLUTION

Whereas the Russian Federation has subjected Ukraine to a campaign of political, economic, and military aggression for the purpose of establishing its domination over the country and progressively erasing its independence;

Whereas the Russian Federation’s invasion of, and military operations on, Ukrainian territory represent gross violations of Ukraine's sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity and a violation of international law, including the Russian Federation's obligations under the United Nations Charter;...

...The document in it's entirety here...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hres758/text

So, my understanding of the US system is this bill is now forwarded to the Senate for a vote. If approved and not vetoed by the President it could be the start of real assistance to Ukraine (and believe me the US could probably sit back and watch because once ok'd by the US that would open the flood gates for other NATO countries to follow suit).

So, my questions are is 758 real and if so, what are the chances it'll be enacted (also, why isn't this headline news)?

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 08, 2014, 08:25:31 AM
Brass, slim and none is the answer.


Maybe it will be re-introduced in the next Congress.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chicagoguy on December 08, 2014, 08:37:01 AM
Aren't we already supplying money, guns and soldiers ?  At least that is what my Russian wife keeps seeing on Russian TV.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 08, 2014, 08:38:06 AM
No, no, and no.


I hope your wife is not believing that disinformation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 08, 2014, 08:43:20 AM
Aren't we already supplying money, guns and soldiers ?  At least that is what my Russian wife keeps seeing on Russian TV.


I know Chicago is close to Canada, eh? But that shouldn't change the facts.


Nothing from the US.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 08, 2014, 03:48:48 PM

I know Chicago is close to Canada, eh? But that shouldn't change the facts.


Nothing from the US.

We're getting there...

Canada to send military personnel to help train Ukrainian forces

..."OTTAWA — The Conservative government announced Monday it will provide more help for Ukraine's beleaguered military, including sending Canadian soldiers to train Ukrainian troops as they continue to battle Russian-backed rebels.

At a news conference in Kiev on Monday, Defence Minister Rob Nicholson said the stepped-up aid is intended to provide "capacity building" for the Ukrainian military.

Canada will provide military and medical training to help Ukrainian forces protect the country against Russian aggression.

Nicholson said the help will include training from military police who arrived in Ukraine on Monday."...

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/12/08/canada-signs-deal-to-help-ukraine-strengthen-security-against-russia

...About bloody time Mr. Harper.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 09, 2014, 05:27:53 AM



Nothing from the US.

Nothing from Obama
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 10, 2014, 12:04:00 AM
WAR IN UKRAINE - ATO
today at 11:28 am
Putin began to realize that Russia is facing disintegration In order to prevent any means disintegration of the country, the Kremlin needs a new strategy. Hence the attempts to soften rhetoric and calls for continuing negotiations with the militants Putin's recent meeting with French President Hollande # 'om and followed her statement - a sign that Russia is beginning to look for a way out of the situation, which has driven itself to its aggressive foreign policy. In the the format of the meeting, which was unplanned and took place at the airport, nothing out of the ordinary is not. Meetings at the highest level can occur in airports, hotel lobbies, while walking in the woods, because diplomacy has many different forms. The key task - to provide an opportunity for dialogue. Given the importance of the issues discussed French and Russian presidents, the format - the latter, which should be surprised. As for the essence of the meeting, it seems to me that before Putin is now finally starting to reach the trap into which he had made ​​himself and his Russian politics. No wonder economists who are aware of things, reduced survival time in Russia if Western sanctions, the collapse of oil prices and other energy will continue, from five to three years. I think # Putin already understands that continue to stick to the line more aggressive means to lead the movement on the collapse of the Russian Federation # . To any means to prevent such collapse, the Kremlin needs a new strategy. In recent days, we can observe a change in the rhetoric of the Russians. Does it pull for a any real changes - this is still a rhetorical question that, in addition, we know that it is impossible to believe the Russian statement. Yet some hints on what the situation is beginning to change, emerged. At the same time it should be understood that the Russian side will somehow try to "stretch" the decision of the situation in the Donbass, which will bring maximum benefit to it. Will this solution is beneficial to us - then the answer is obvious. Of course, no. What really stands behind the Russian statements and hints, it will become clear next few days. The key problem is that Russia # , even declaring a willingness to negotiate, formulate their conditions so that any talk melts meaningless. Therefore, to believe in any practical results the next meeting in Minsk difficult for me - not least thanks to the experience of working with Russian negotiators. And in miracles, I do not believe, so that the most likely option - in the coming weeks, we expect several contacts with representatives of the Russian Federation, which radically influence the situation will not have any. The reason for this uncertainty - that sanctions against Russia has not yet given the maximum effect. In the Russian Federation already understand that the problems are coming. But it is not yet too painful. That's when the pain will be for real, then there will be real steps to resolve the conflict. In the meantime, Russia will only try to bargain for the most favorable conditions. As long as the sanctions remain in effect, and the Russian Federation is aware of the scale, we, as well as the West, we need to actively put pressure on Russia. So that we then do not say "you guys need from us sanctions, while they themselves are trading with the aggressor, buy his goods, flying his plane." Making the retreat of the Russian Federation and at the same time to save her trade will not work. Sooner or later have to decide what is priority for us - trade or national security.
Vladimir Ogryzko # Ukrainian diplomat




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 10, 2014, 01:23:43 AM
I hope Putin does soften his stand on Ukraine. That will benefit everyone, including Russian soldiers. However, there is an element that is out of control- the separatists' military leaders, people like Girkin. And I wouldn't be surprised if there is military funding and promotion from the Yanukovych camp. I'm skeptical about Minsk talks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 10, 2014, 01:36:11 AM
PG  --without Russian complicity and support of  Russian military this would have been over back in July when the Ukrainian military were in the process of cutting them off from Russia--and resupply .
It is only the resources of the Russian military and the "humanity" resupply of them ,plus the Russian  military resources of equipment and men themselves that keeps this war going in the east.
Hard to read anything into what is said and done at this stage--last night they withdrew from Kherson region( yes-that was another invading penetration of Ukrainian territory) on the Crimean border -what it means-who knows?

http://tsn.ua/politika/rosiya-povernula-ukrayini-chastinu-zahoplenih-zemel-396545.html
Russian troops left the Kherson region. Ukraine regained part of its territory through negotiations. Russian military weapons and no shots left the Kherson region , which seized during the occupation of the Crimea. This is stated in the plot TSN.19.30 . This spring, together with the Crimea invaders seized the territory of the village also Strilkove and the peninsula Chongar in Genichesk district, Kherson region, and even in Hell Chaplinka peninsula. Now Russians are leaving their positions, and our guards reinforced the geographical limits of the continental Ukraine. Chairman of the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine Viktor Nazarenko said that everything was solved through negotiations at the national level. They were long and difficult, but no concessions from the Ukrainian side was not.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/rosiya-povernula-ukrayini-chastinu-zahoplenih-zemel-396545.html

In my post  #761 above--you can read an attempt to analyse situation-so many variables.

My view-- nothing Putin says should ever be believed  or trusted !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 03:46:05 AM
I hope that the situation will be resolved. Don't know how
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 10, 2014, 04:29:43 AM
I hope that the situation will be resolved. Don't know how

Huilo dying would be a good start... :devilish:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 04:50:33 AM
I hope that the situation will be resolved. Don't know how

Simple! Russians go back to  Russia and pay for all the damages as well as returning control of Krim to Ukraine.

  Until then I smile every time I hear about bad news about the fall of the Russian economy.( think of 80-90 rubles to the dollar by spring)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 04:52:44 AM
Huilo dying would be a good start... :devilish:
So you openly wish death to the President of Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 04:55:40 AM
You sure enjoy trying to put words into other peoples mouths. A heart attack, stroke or plane crash will work just fine also.  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 10, 2014, 05:21:26 AM
A heart attack, stroke or plane crash will work just fine also.  :clapping:

Considering all the carnage he has caused, huilo does not deserve a quick death.
Incurable cancer, dementia or a large tumour on that shiny forehead of his will do just fine.

 :thumbsup:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 05:55:34 AM
You sure enjoy trying to put words into other peoples mouths. A heart attack, stroke or plane crash will work just fine also.  :clapping:
So you are openly wishing death to Putin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 06:00:48 AM
You sure enjoy trying to put words into other peoples mouths. A heart attack, stroke or plane crash will work just fine also.  :clapping:
Plane crash was attempted in July.
I hope you were not involved
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 06:14:35 AM
So you are openly wishing death to Putin

 I am openly wishing for him to stay inn Huilostan and leave Ukraine intact and able to seek it's own destiny.

But since that's not happening his demise would be a good second choice.  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 10, 2014, 07:59:06 AM
Plane crash was attempted in July.
I hope you were not involved

Oh yes, that crash.

AkMike was not involved unless he is Israeli.  I read  that the current evidence proves a drone was sent from Israel's secret base in Chernobyl to intercept Putin's plane but mistakenly hit Malaysian Airlines Flight 17. 

I recall reading this in Pravda, or maybe it was перекати-поле.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 08:06:32 AM
Nope I have a rock solid alibi!

I was with my lawyer and 2 judges as well as several Senators all month. :rolleyes:


I do wonder where she manages to come up with this kind of malarkey though. Lack of Prozac or lithium possibly?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 10, 2014, 08:07:06 AM
Plane crash was attempted in July.
I hope you were not involved

What? When did that happen?
Nothing like that was being reported on mainstream media...
You would think an event that significant will at least attract some media coverage, for example like the Malaysian plane that was actually shot down by Russian backed terrorists scum.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 09:24:32 AM
I am openly wishing for him to stay inn Russia and leave Ukraine intact and able to seek it's own destiny.

But since that's not happening his demise would be a good second choice.  :clapping:
I called Putin and checked on him- he is in Russia. 8)
(http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5134c5b46bb3f7431f00001c-1200/a-16-year-veteran-of-the-kgb-putin-knows-his-way-around-a-gun-after-his-retirement-in-1991-he-rapidly-rose-through-russian-politics-to-become-top-dog-in-the-worlds-largest-nation.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 09:25:11 AM
What? When did that happen?
Nothing like that was being reported on mainstream media...
You would think an event that significant will at least attract some media coverage, for example like the Malaysian plane that was actually shot down by Russian backed terrorists scum.
It WAS reported.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 10, 2014, 09:37:52 AM
It WAS reported.


Where? RT?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 10:06:45 AM
Cash-Strapped Russia Won't Support Ukrainian Separatist Regions Of Donetsk And Luhansk

As a new ceasefire begins Tuesday between Ukraine and pro-Russia separatists in the east of the country, the Kremlin plunged the political fate of the contested regions of Donetsk and Luhansk into uncertainty. According to the left-leaning Russian daily newspaper Novaya Gazeta, which cited officials within the Kremlin, sources within the cabinet of ministers and pro-Russian insurgents, Russia has abandoned the idea of either war-torn region becoming an independent state, instead preferring that both remain autonomous regions within Ukraine.

While the reason for this change of policy within the Kremlin was not revealed in the report, it is believed that independence would push both regions to rely on Russia financially as they recover from war and begin operating as independent states, something that a financially troubled Russia is keen to avoid.

“Russia clearly doesn’t want to absorb these states into Russia itself,” said Sarah Lain, research fellow with expertise on Russia and the former USSR at the London-based Royal United Services Institute, an independent think tank on defense and security. “And I do imagine that independence would mean that it adds more pressure on Russia because those regions will be asking to be closer to Russia than Kiev."

It was thought that both regions in Eastern Ukraine would be taken under Russian control in the same way Crimea was, after a vote in September, but Russia has been subjected to crippling financial sanctions from the European Union and the U.S. since entering Crimea in February of this year and annexing it just one month later. On top of falling oil prices, that is hurting Russia financially.

This leaves both Luhansk and Donetsk in a quandary. The population that voted in both those regions chose overwhelmingly to become independent states and move away from Kiev's rule -- hoping, Lain said, that Russia would prop them up financially. In response to the move, not recognized internationally, Ukraine Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk cut off payments to the two regions totaling $2.6 billion, largely in public-sector salaries and pensions, leaving the regions and the people living there largely adrift from central government.

That quandary extends to Moscow, too. “Russia can’t afford to take on that responsibility, especially given the problems with its economy,” said Lain. “However, Russia also can’t afford to step back either, because Putin’s popularity in Russia rides on him protecting the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.”

But finances are not the only reason Putin would rather see Donetsk and Luhansk remain as autonomous regions. Putin may also have geopolitical reasons to keep both regions locked in "frozen conflicts," whose persistence would make it almost impossible for Ukraine to join the EU and even NATO and leave Russia's sphere of influence in favor of Western affiliation. 

“They [Russia] are attempting to create what’s known as a ‘frozen conflict,’ the same condition as was seen in the [2008] conflict with Georgia, which resulted in the creation of the semi-autonomous states of South Ossetia and Abkhazia,” said Emma Ashford, a Russia analyst with the Cato Institute in Washington.

The key for Russia, Lain said, is to push separatists to retain their autonomy, which “keeps the tie to the Kiev government, meaning it kind of stays Kiev’s problem."

http://www.ibtimes.com/cash-strapped-russia-wont-support-ukrainian-separatist-regions-donetsk-luhansk-1745350
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 10:23:15 AM
Sanctions hurt Vlad! :clapping:


Russia's Kalashnikov gun-maker struggles with Western ban

It is probably the best-known weapon in the world, brandished by everyone from Che Guevara to Osama bin Laden. But the Kalashnikov assault rifle has failed to produce a profit for its makers for years.

Things were just starting to improve when the firm was hit by Western sanctions.

With Russian military stores full of the famously durable Kalashnikovs, and dwindling orders from abroad, the company had turned its attention to civilian firearms markets.

In January it finally secured a foothold in the biggest of them, sealing a lucrative deal to supply up to 200,000 rifles a year in the US.

But in July, Kalashnikov was placed on a US list of eight arms manufacturers sanctioned for Russia's role in fomenting the crisis in Ukraine. The deal was halted with under half the initial order delivered. It was added to an EU list in September.

View of Izhevsk, home of Kalashnikov factory Most of the weapons produced at the factory in Izhevsk are civilian firearms
"Of course I was upset, because I didn't understand why we'd been sanctioned," Kalashnikov director Alexei Krivoruchko told the BBC, arguing that the firm was no longer wholly state-owned since he and another Russian businessman had invested in a 49% stake.

Also, he points out, it primarily produces firearms for the civilian market.

"The US was a key market for us, one that we planned to develop," Mr Krivoruchko says. "It's a big loss, there's no point saying otherwise."

There are now some 200 models of Kalashnikov, still produced at the original factory in Izhevsk, two hours' flight east of Moscow.

In Soviet times, the sprawling plant manufactured around 600,000 rifles a year for the military. Last year it turned out one tenth of that number and 80% were civilian firearms.

With a new crisis management team on board, the firm is now on a major efficiency drive. Production has already been streamlined, putting the plant on course to double its output this year.

The next goal is to upgrade the ancient, chunky equipment that fills the shop floor: one machine was discovered from the 19th Century.

But sanctions are complicating life there, too, as Kalashnikov now has to seek suppliers in Asia, instead of Europe.

Kalashnikov gun production - assembled guns The company is keeping quiet about who will buy the weapons originally produced for the American market
"I remember all sorts of times here, including the 1990s, when wages weren't paid, or only in part. And when the firm declared bankruptcy," Nikolai Svintsov reminisces as he assembles a hunting rifle on an old, rutted wooden worktop.

As part of its comeback effort, the weapons firm was recently re-launched as the oddly-named Kalashnikov Concern, with a red-carpet event in Moscow complete with high-heeled hostesses handing out replicas of the rifle's distinctive, banana-shaped magazine.

A glitzy video promoted the AK as a "weapon of peace", wielded historically by liberation movements in their "search for justice" and, more recently, by Russia's own anti-terrorist Special Forces.

The fact that the Kalashnikov is currently used by both sides fighting in eastern Ukraine - the conflict that led to sanctions - was glossed over.

Kalashnikov gun production worker Nikolai Production worker Nikolai Svintsov remembers worse times in the 1990s when wages were not paid
"We're trying to hear customers' needs," explains another of the young team of managers, Dmitry Tarasov, of his firm's attempts to win a share of the civilian firearms market.

"Of course we can compete," he insists. "The Kalashnikov is the most famous assault gun."

But first the weapon has to compete against itself.

In Cold War times, Moscow allowed its allies to produce Kalashnikovs locally and some continued to do that long after the Iron Curtain fell. Those copies ate deeply into post-Soviet profits in Izhevsk.

As the right to any legal challenge has long since passed, the firm is preparing to launch a fully updated rifle in the hope that Kalashnikov users will upgrade too. A civilian version will follow.

The AK-12, as it is known, is one of two assault rifles currently being tested by the Russian military as part of President Vladimir Putin's military modernisation programme.

Final word on which firm gets the big state order is due early next year - a decision the Kalashnikov boss calls "extremely important".

Kalashnikov test firing The company is keen for the sanctions imposed by the West on Russia to end soon
But he also insists his firm is coping under sanctions.

Senior managers say they have found new buyers for the extra rifles originally intended for the US. Mr Krivoruchko admits it was not easy but will not be drawn on details.

While US weapons enthusiasts will probably manage without a Kalashnikov, for the company itself, hitting the lucrative American market was a clear route to recovery.

If the bosses are lobbying Mr Putin to push for an end to sanctions, Alexei Krivoruchko is not admitting it.

"There's nothing we can do," he says. "But we hope the sanctions will be lifted soon."

He has a multi-million dollar investment riding on that.
BBC News - Russia's Kalashnikov gun-maker struggles with Western ban
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 10:31:25 AM

Where? RT?
I don't remember
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 11:14:46 AM
AKMike, besides AK, Russia has hunred thousands of "items' to sell, trust me.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 11:25:56 AM
Yeah we got a pretty good deal at 2 cents an acre for AK. :clapping:

Russia may have goods to sell but if they can't be exported and sold they are sale they are worthless.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 10, 2014, 11:28:53 AM
I called Putin and checked on him- he is in Russia. 8)
(http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5134c5b46bb3f7431f00001c-1200/a-16-year-veteran-of-the-kgb-putin-knows-his-way-around-a-gun-after-his-retirement-in-1991-he-rapidly-rose-through-russian-politics-to-become-top-dog-in-the-worlds-largest-nation.jpg)

Well, next time you talk to him advise him that while on an indoor gun range holding a fully cocked Makarov to the ceiling with the safety off is really not something someone who "knows his way around a gun" does contrary to the title of your jpg.  :rolleyes:

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
He should play that famous  game of Russian roulette with that semi auto.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 10, 2014, 11:39:15 AM
He should play that famous  game of Russian roulette with that semi auto.  :rolleyes:

LOL, I wonder how many readers will get that...

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 10, 2014, 11:40:30 AM
 :D Time will tell!  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 10, 2014, 11:43:26 AM
Well, next time you talk to him advise him that while on an indoor gun range holding a fully cocked Makarov to the ceiling with the safety off is really not something someone who "knows his way around a gun" does contrary to the title of your jpg.  :rolleyes:

Brass

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Remember, the bear does what he wants to do when in his territory; there are no rules and he need not ask permission.   Besides the people on the floor above the range are not important.  A ricochet?  That would make a good Youtube. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 12:21:23 PM
Called Putin again, he sent me the pic
 (http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5i2XsuAbXsrZjWO-rJjmQWjxNu6OjHJZnJffMoL7C39xCLvkQ7g)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 10, 2014, 12:25:36 PM
 (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmgOve6Lpjjtacp3EVfjtvHWXNbyVbH0tWg_sgtLV0zYPy6Pok)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 10, 2014, 02:27:39 PM
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmgOve6Lpjjtacp3EVfjtvHWXNbyVbH0tWg_sgtLV0zYPy6Pok)


Bear from North America.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 10, 2014, 02:34:54 PM
Regarding the obvious of Putin asking Ukraine to take back the two regions, well, Poroshenko should say Not so fast.


The main reason for Huilo to do this is to put further stress on the Ukrainian economy. Poroshenko should be asking these regions to


1) send the Russians back to Russia
2) no amnesty to the criminals
3) kiss his ass


and then say Deal or no Deal.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 10, 2014, 02:37:09 PM
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmgOve6Lpjjtacp3EVfjtvHWXNbyVbH0tWg_sgtLV0zYPy6Pok)



Bear from North America.


(http://p2.la-img.com/1066/43515/19108959_1_l.jpg)

Bear from Russia. :P

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 11, 2014, 02:09:55 AM
Both are cute
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 02:16:03 AM
Cuter would be huilo's severed head stuck on a pike...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 11, 2014, 03:56:24 AM
Terrorists suspect SBU( Ukrainian) “assassination squad” responsible for recent deaths.
 
Members of the  so-called “people’s militias” in Horlivka suspect that an “assassination squad” of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) is active in their city, military analyst Dmytro Tymchuk, head of the Information Resistance group, reports on Facebook Monday, December 8.

There are persistent rumors among former members of the militias organized by the terrorist leader Igor Bezler (Bes) that an SBU “assassination squad” is active in their city, Tymchuk writes.

According to Tymchuk, the militants believe the SBU got a hold of a database of the Horlivka militias and that Ukrainian security service operatives placed in the occupied territories are methodically seizing or liquidating “Bezler’s fighters” who have remained in the city and who have now been incorporated into the “Army of Novorossiya.”

“During the past week, three former commanders of the Bezler gang units have been found dead with obvious signs of a violent death. Two others have vanished without a trace,” Tymchuk reports.

Additionally, Tymchuk reports that in a number of localities in the Donbas (Torez, Rovenky, Snizhne, Krasnyi Luch) terrorists are continuing to carry out  forcible “mobilization activities” for the so-called “Army of Novorossiya” in businesses and mines of the region. The total number of the local residents “mobilized” in this fashion in recent days stands at fewer than 30, he writes.

As previously reported, Igor Bezler (Bes) was one of the leaders of the Donetsk separatists, the commander of the so-called “people’s militia” in Horlivka and a close associate of the Russian ultra-nationalist commander Igor Girkin (Strelkov). There were unconfirmed rumors recently that Bezler had been eliminated by Russian security services for refusing to cooperate with Russian military authorities in the Donbas.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 11, 2014, 04:08:34 AM
Russia's South Stream Alternative Rests on Shaky Ground
By Alexander Panin
The St. Petersburg Times
Published: December 8, 2014
Ukraine's role as a natural gas transit zone between Russia and the European Union will be "nullified" once a newly announced pipeline through Turkey to Greece is completed, Gazprom head Alexei Miller said Saturday.

But Miller's enthusiasm about building a Turkish gas line, meant to take the place of the recently scrapped $40 billion South Stream pipeline through Bulgaria, may be misplaced. The likely high price tag of the project, Turkey's strong negotiating position and unresolved political concerns may cost Russia dearly.

Neither Miller nor Russia's President Vladimir Putin has yet specified what route the new pipeline will take from Russia to Turkey or which investors in Turkey are ready to contribute funding. Nor have they mentioned who would have to build or expand the existing pipeline network from Turkey to Greece.

During Rossia-1's program "The News on Sunday," Miller stated that some 4 billion euros ($5 billion) of infrastructure already built for the scrapped South Stream project can be repurposed for transit to Turkey.

Given Gazprom's current projects, however, including a massive pipeline being built to provide gas to China, "Gazprom can hardly afford to finance a new pipeline," said Mikhail Korchemkin, head of East European Gas Analysis, a U.S.-based energy consultancy.

And even assuming that the pipelines are built to Turkey, it is unclear who will own and operate them and on what terms, said Mikhail Krutikhin, a partner and analyst at the Russia-based RusEnergy consultancy.

While transiting Russian gas, Ukraine abides by an agreement signed between Ukraine's state-owned Naftogaz and Gazprom, which gives Gazprom control of its gas while in Ukraine.
Turkey, though, will likely want to re-export gas bought at its border as its own, judging by its negotiations for gas supplies from Iran and Azerbaijan, Krutikhin said. Given its power as one of Russia's only points of contact with its EU consumers, Turkey would then be able to demand even lower prices for gas supplies.

Russia has already offered a 6 percent discount on gas supplies to Turkey starting from next year and possibly could offer even lower prices, "depending on how our relations develop," Putin said last week.

Even if the pipeline is built, it will not necessarily be able to avoid the political and legal problems that plagued South Stream, cited by Russia as a prime factor in leading to the project's cancellation.

"Gazprom has an illusion that it can fool Europe by using Turkey as a transit hub and gain access this way to markets in Southern Europe," said Sergei Pikin, director of Moscow-based think tank the Energy Development Fund.

Greece, though, is a member of the European Union and complies with the same rules that stalled the development of South Stream in the first place, he said.

And while Putin and Miller sounded as if their plans for Turkey were a done deal, Turkish officials were far more careful with their statements.

Turkish Energy Minister Taner Yildiz said Tuesday that Russian and Turkish agencies were working toward a final deal on the new pipeline. But he said it was too soon "to pronounce the final word on these matters today," The Wall Street Journal reported.

Officials in Turkey have merely signed a memorandum of understanding, which does not oblige them to anything, according to Krutikhin.

"And for this piece of paper Russia had to pay by offering a discount to future gas supplies," he said, referring to the discount Moscow has already given Ankara.
http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=41379
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 11, 2014, 12:04:14 PM
Russia has no choice but to "cancel" or change South Stream.
Don't you agree?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 11, 2014, 01:00:35 PM
I couldn't be happier.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 11, 2014, 01:39:59 PM
And in Ruble news...

Russian ruble hits all time low of 55-to-1 versus U.S. dollar

..."The Russian ruble continued its slow slide Thursday, falling to an all-time low against the U.S. dollar. It now costs 55 rubles to get one U.S. dollar.

Against the euro, the rube was threatening to break through the 70 rubles to one euro threshold for the first time ever, too. Russia's central bank tried to stem the tide in the afternoon by hiking its benchmark interest rate by another quarter of a point.

But it wasn't enough, as the ruble sell-off continued. Russian stocks were also lower, with the benchmark RTS stock index losing almost four per cent."...

This statement is particularly relevant...

..."The ruble has lost about 42 per cent of its value since January, battered by Western sanctions imposed over the conflict in eastern Ukraine and the drop in the price of oil, the backbone of the Russian economy.'...

I believe when/if the ruble hits the 50% loss of value mark against the US dollar there will be a reaction from the Russians towards the Kremlin. It's a psychological barrier Putin can't afford to cross, IMO.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/russian-ruble-hits-all-time-low-of-55-to-1-versus-u-s-dollar-1.2870009
Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chicagoguy on December 11, 2014, 03:38:27 PM
I think Putin will soon take down all those lighted signs in Moscow that are constantly reminding all passerby's what is happening to the Ruble compared to the Dollar and the Euro  ;D

Just joking - I hope.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 11, 2014, 03:55:17 PM
New Republican Congress to push Obama for more weaponry and other aid to Ukraine:


excerpt
"Two bills that would provide Ukraine with defensive but lethal weapons are likely to be taken up by the new Republican Senate majority, despite the president’s wishes.

The first of these bills, the Ukraine Security Assistance Act of 2014, would help Ukraine “neutralize the military-support advantage that separatist rebels are using to target civilian and military aircraft in in eastern Ukraine” and would authorize President Obama to “provide adequate and necessary assistance to protect Ukrainian democracy and sovereignty.”

The second, the Ukraine Freedom Support Act of 2014, calls for military and security assistance to Ukraine, designates it as a “major non-NATO ally” (MNNA), and imposes further sanctions on the Russian Federation. MNNA is a designation given by the United States government to close allies (including Australia, Egypt, Israel, Japan, and South Korea) who have strategic working relationships with U.S. armed forces but are not members of NATO. While the MNNA status does not automatically establish a mutual defense pact with the United States, it does confer a variety of military and financial advantages that otherwise are not obtainable by non-NATO countries.

Moreover, codifying U.S. sanctions against Russia into legislation would make it far more difficult to end them than is currently the case, thereby immunizing the sanctions against actions by the White House.

It is unclear whether Obama will veto either bill should they pass. The White House’s rationale that arming Kiev would provoke Moscow grows ever weaker, as Russia has stepped up its military support of the eastern breakaway republics in recent days. An Obama veto would also put him at odds with powerful congressional leaders in both parties, now emboldened by the elections to take a tougher line on an issue that appears secondary to the rest of the president’s agenda."


http://imrussia.org/en/analysis/world/2085-republican-congress-to-push-harder-russia-line
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 04:15:18 PM
Russia has no choice but to "cancel" or change South Stream.
Don't you agree?

Forced capitulation?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 05:52:43 PM
According to good old YAHOO NEWS  ;)  again it appears that Russia is aligning with a non-western nation...this time it is India.  There remains a market for Russian resources, despite the western sanctions. 


[size=78%]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-just-took-another-sharp-203400974.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-just-took-another-sharp-203400974.html)[/size]


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 05:57:09 PM
I think Putin will soon take down all those lighted signs in Moscow that are constantly reminding all passerby's what is happening to the Ruble compared to the Dollar and the Euro  ;D


Pass a law prohibiting the money exchange shops from displaying their LED rates signs on the street.
Require the state TV channels to churn out fake news of how the Rouble has raised back to 40 to the dollar.

Yep, there may just be a chance the regime can get the sheep population to swallow that...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 05:59:56 PM
  There remains a market for Russian resources, despite the western sanctions. 


Of course there is, at rock bottom prices...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 06:10:00 PM
Of course there is, at rock bottom prices...


I would think that the price they are receiving is lower than what they were getting, but it still is money.  It appears the two nations are working on nuclear power together and a few other projects.  Perhaps Russian leadership feels that they have an abundance of natural resources and if they sell them for a lower price that is still better than not having money until these sanctions settle down sooner or later. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 06:27:13 PM
until these sanctions settle down sooner or later. 


Big assumption...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 06:28:44 PM
Big assumption...


I think the BIGGER assumption is to think the sanctions will last forever!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 06:31:29 PM

I think the BIGGER assumption is to think the sanctions will last forever!


Fathertime!

Credible links about sanctions getting dropped anytime soon?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 06:39:05 PM
Credible links about sanctions getting dropped anytime soon?


Credible links about sanctions lasting forever anytime soon?


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 11, 2014, 06:45:34 PM
India does not have the capabiltiy to develop oil in the Arctic. 
Sanctions did not affect Russia's sale of gas. 
 
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 06:48:19 PM

lasting forever anytime soon?


That phrase is contradictory and does not make sense in the English language... :-\
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 06:54:38 PM
That phrase is contradictory and does not make sense in the English language... :-\


You have given up on discussing the topic, and are now just playing word games...haha 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 11, 2014, 07:32:19 PM

You have given up on discussing the topic, and are now just playing word games...haha 


Fathertime!

Or poster Muzh is correct, you are a Russian pretending to be an American.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 07:37:10 PM
Or poster Muzh is correct, you are a Russian pretending to be an American.


yes yes, the old 'i'm actually a Russian' defense....always handy when a person has given up on discussing the issue. :rolleyes:


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 11, 2014, 07:41:00 PM

Credible links about sanctions lasting forever anytime soon?


Fathertime!

I could post a link that the sanctions not only will not end soon, but they will likely get worse.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2014, 07:46:31 PM
I could post a link that the sanctions not only will not end soon, but they will likely get worse.
Who's stopping you?  Go ahead and post the link.  My earlier point is they will eventually end, that doesn't mean it has to be soon...as I said sooner or later.   


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 11, 2014, 07:56:28 PM
Forced capitulation?
no
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 11, 2014, 08:50:43 PM
Do most of the money exchange shops in Russia have LED rates display signs or are they still using manual signs?

With the Rouble collapsing this rapidly, surely it is not fun having to run outside every 15 minutes in the middle of winter to adjust the rates signs!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 11, 2014, 10:03:39 PM
The league of nations expelled Russia.  Before this is all over, history will repeat itself. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 11, 2014, 10:58:12 PM
Quote of the week

 or should it be the "Quote of the weak"?  :crackwhip:

"A sizable weakening of the ruble isn't advantageous for the economy in the long term," Medvedev said in an interview with Russian television. While currency depreciation benefits the budget, it's detrimental in a "strategic sense," he said.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/medvedev-enlists-russian-companies-bid-165638063.html

 As the ruble dropped to 55.8 to the dollar a 1.5% in one day.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 03:30:39 AM
I could post a link that the sanctions not only will not end soon, but they will likely get worse.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/11/us-ukraine-crisis-obama-idUSKBN0JP20L20141211
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 03:32:44 AM
Do most of the money exchange shops in Russia have LED rates display signs or are they still using manual signs?

With the Rouble collapsing this rapidly, surely it is not fun having to run outside every 15 minutes in the middle of winter to adjust the rates signs!
The signs are electronic but what does it matter?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 04:00:01 AM
If they were manual, there will be some very tired cold people as the value plummets further.  :clapping:

At least the store clerks will be warm inside raising the prices on the groceries.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 04:07:29 AM
If they were manual, there will be some very tired cold people as the value plummets further.  :clapping:

At least the store clerks will be warm inside raising the prices on the groceries.
Is it supposed to be funny? Should we start laughing ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 04:14:58 AM
But of course!  :crackwhip: :clapping: :clapping:

Anything bad for Russian is good for everyone else!

 Send a note to your leader to withdraw all troops and associated supplies out of Ukraine and Krym then all will begin to get better.

 Until then expect top see 80-90 rubles to the dollar soon. That'll hurt on the home front!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 12, 2014, 04:36:46 AM
Is it supposed to be funny? Should we start laughing ?

I am already laughing at how Putler keeps shooting his own feet with those silly self imposed food embargos that jacks up the price of food for his own citizens.

Does the midget have any toes left?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 04:47:06 AM
That silly Russian Bear!  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 04:51:44 AM


 Send a note to your leader

I did - he says hi to you
(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/webkit-fake-url://E231A2FA-A24A-4B46-90A3-C634D614401E/imagejpeg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 04:57:32 AM
Called Putin again- another hi to you
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 12, 2014, 04:58:04 AM
Maybe to add a bit of fun to RWD, we should start a guessing competition to guess on what date the Rouble will hit 65, 75, 85 etc...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 05:50:13 AM
New Years should show 70.

What a way to start the New Year! Russia broke again.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 12, 2014, 06:02:49 AM
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/opinion/russias-ideology-there-is-no-truth.html?_r=0&referrer=

No truth in Russia
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 12, 2014, 06:09:46 AM
New Years should show 70.

What a way to start the New Year! Russia broke again.
No, i won' t show 70 by  NY
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 07:44:16 AM
Don't bet your borsht on that..  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


edit to add. That's only 12.50 away from todays close..   I maybe too conservative and it'll hit 80 by then.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 12, 2014, 08:05:48 AM
Maybe to add a bit of fun to RWD, we should start a guessing competition to guess on what date the Rouble will hit 65, 75, 85 etc...


If they were manual, there will be some very tired cold people as the value plummets further.  :clapping:

At least the store clerks will be warm inside raising the prices on the groceries.


Careful guys, all your 'flippant' comments might get SX all twisted up, oh wait nevermind, I forgot, he is a hypocrite and approves of your comments since politically you agree!


On another note. I think the US currency is strong overall right now, for example the country where my wife is from Colombia, the US dollar just in recent weeks has moved from 1900 to 2400+ and since the beginning of the year it is even more...these are large % gains but the life hasn't changed much in a Colombia as a result.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 08:09:23 AM
Except the costs are going up fast in Russia.

They can't afford to keep up the war and still maintain the home front. Unless they dip into the pension fund. Oh wait! Never mind they already did! No bread with the borscht.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 12, 2014, 08:59:40 AM
According to good old YAHOO NEWS  ;)  again it appears that Russia is aligning with a non-western nation...this time it is India.  There remains a market for Russian resources, despite the western sanctions. 


[size=78%]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-just-took-another-sharp-203400974.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-just-took-another-sharp-203400974.html)[/size]


Fathertime!


Heh, comments like this reminds me of this nice article.


See if anyone notice any similarity, which I should add, is purely coincidental.   ;)


http://www.interpretermag.com/in-this-info-war-the-problem-is-not-only-russia/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 10:56:24 AM
Food price inflation. + 5.5% this week.

No potato's or beets inn the borsht either. Back to using dirt eh?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 11:00:12 AM
Let the good time roll Vlad!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 12, 2014, 11:26:41 AM
Vandals paint a war monument in Novosibirsk into the colors of Ukraine:


http://lifenews.ru/news/146832


This link shows the before:


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-soviet-union/newsweek-russias-monuments-keep-getting-graffitied-with-ukrainian-flags-374988.html




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 12, 2014, 11:49:06 AM
No, i won' t show 70 by  NY

Care to demonstrate your unshakable faith in the Rouble by converting all your US dollars into Roubles?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 12, 2014, 12:02:00 PM
An analyst on a TV business show today mistakenly said "rubble" when talking about Russian currency.  Freudian slip?
:ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 12, 2014, 12:31:32 PM
Ukraine to double their defense budget from last year.


http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kyivpost.com%2Fcontent%2Fukraine-abroad%2Fnewsweek-ukraines-military-budget-will-be-over-3-billion-in-2015-374994.html&h=bAQFrOxg8&s=1
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 12, 2014, 01:01:13 PM
I don't want the Russian economy to crumble, but I do want Russia to leave Ukraine alone. I'm sure there are a few Russians who are good people, who love their brothers in Ukraine. I have sympathy for them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 01:04:39 PM
Zen and the crash of the ruble... Realtime! 58.48!  :clapping: :clapping:

http://zenrus.ru/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 01:12:02 PM
I'm sure there are a few Russians who are good people, who love their brothers in Ukraine. I have sympathy for them.

Then they need to quickly become the vocal minority that changes everyone's mind to understand the truth and not RT's/Kremlin's version either.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 12, 2014, 02:38:53 PM
I don't want the Russian economy to crumble, but I do want Russia to leave Ukraine alone. I'm sure there are a few Russians who are good people, who love their brothers in Ukraine. I have sympathy for them.


What is more important to me is that OUR economy doesn't begin to crumble...this has been a terrible week for our stocks....the economy is frail....and it can take no time for it to fizzle. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 12, 2014, 03:19:50 PM

 for example the country where my wife is from Colombia,

Why are you on RWD?  :-\
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 12, 2014, 03:46:54 PM
Why are you on RWD?  :-\
Why not? The discussions are lively and much is relevant to me. 

Gee I wonder why you care?  ;D

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on December 12, 2014, 03:58:58 PM
Why are you on RWD?  :-\

Can I answer that?? This is a political forum now!!
I thought RWD stood for Russian Women Discussion .....very little if any of that now.  :(
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 12, 2014, 05:42:03 PM
War does that to a man.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on December 12, 2014, 07:21:32 PM
I thought RWD stood for Russian Women Discussion .....very little if any of that now.  :(
Guess prices have just gone up too much.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-prostitutes-hike-rates-over-slumping-ruble-media/512596.html
(http://www.themoscowtimes.com/upload/iblock/9c8/5512-60-Prostitution-Wikicommons.jpg)
http://flashnord.com/news/murmanskie-prostitutki-uvelichat-ceny-iz-za-padeniya-rublya
(http://flashnord.com/sites/default/files/styles/780x450/public/uploads/main/84692441.jpg?itok=tFotcVCt)
But drinking prices are stable.
http://flashnord.com/news/v-murmanske-nadeyutsya-chto-padenie-rublya-vyzovet-volnu-alkoturizma
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 12, 2014, 09:00:58 PM

Люди тысячами уже теряют работу, и миллионы людей ещё потеряют, в ближайшие месяцы. В том числе в банковской сфере, где вовсю уже идут увольнения.

Мне жалко нормальных, ни в чём не повинных людей.

Но мне совершенно не жалко крымнашистов, которые только лишь несколько месяцев назад, как средневековые зомби, повторяли за Путиным: "Мы всё решим, всё преодолеем, потому что мы -- вместе!"

Путин всех нас обманул, кинул и поставил на бабки. Но тем, которые бились в крымнашистском угаре -- так им и надо.

И никак по-другому всё это быть не могло.

А как вы хотели? Как ты хотел? Что ты думал, что будет, когда в XXI веке Россия напала на Украину, начала убивать украинцев, и отобрала территории? Как ты хотел? Что всё будет по-прежнему и ещё лучше? Потому что так тебе сказал Путин? Потому что так тебе сказал политический, экономический, финансовый и юридический дегенерат? Он сказал, что правда и справедливость на нашей стороне? Потому что Крым -- это важная для нас территория, исторически и стратегически? Что ты сможешь теперь туда ездить отдыхать? А раньше не мог, да? Раньше Турция с Египтом были милее?

Ну ты и получил сполна. Нет. Ещё не получил. Ещё получишь. Сейчас были только цветочки.

А, ты уже Крыма не хочешь? Уже хочешь всё взад вертать? Уже жалеешь, да? Жена недовольна, что тебя с работы выгнали, потому что не на что маленького ребёнка кормить, и она беременна вторым? А она, вместе с тобой слушая Киселева-Геббельса, про ядерный пепел для Америки, умеет строить простые причинно-следственные связи? Если ты разучился?

Нисколько не жалко тебя.

Потому что никто не имеет права быть идиотом.


http://www.facebook.com/slava.rabinovich.9?fref=nf
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 12, 2014, 10:31:21 PM
There is a riddle/joke told informally on the street:

3 things will hit 63 in 2015:

1- Mr. Putin's age (true, he will).
2- The price of oil.
3- The ruble to the dollar.

I can make no forecast, only repeat the riddle.

To be certain, the impact of reverse sanctions linked to the falling ruble and the appearance of price inflation has begun to impact life in Russia. Anyone who says differently is either just dumb, or lying. There is good reason why the government is asking the populace to endure for the sake of saving Russia from the evil West.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 12, 2014, 10:54:15 PM
Photo Guy, you are right: there are many good and decent Russians. We may disagree, but I count folk like Doll and Belvis as good and decent Russians. But there is also an incredible propaganda campaign that is dished out constantly by a media that has been gutted of independent voices and so even good and decent Russians are hearing one-sided story.

I'll give you this example:  This week there have been skirmishes as the Russian and their separatist forces have tested Ukrainian defensive lines. Yesterday morning a long column of tanks and motorized armoured vehicles left Donetsk and were headed for Mariupol. Most of the tanks and trucks were handpainted with the slogan "на Мариуполь," meaning "to Mariupol." (There is some historical significance in the slogan as the Red Army used the slogan "на Берлин" as troops pushed from the Eastern front on towards Berlin.)

I was exchanging tweets with several other journalists and a reporter for RT responded that the buildup came not from the Russian probing of Ukraine's defenses, but he tweeted that the Ukrainians are "Apparently preparing to intensify the cease-fire." He just could not come out and admit that Ukrainian forces are sitting in defensive positions, and that his comrades might be the aggressors trying to grab another Ukrainian port city.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 12, 2014, 11:02:38 PM
this has been a terrible week for our stocks....


Funny, mine have done quite well for many months. Hardly a frail economy IMO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2014, 12:03:33 AM
There is a riddle/joke told informally on the street:

3 things will hit 63 in 2015:

1- Mr. Putin's age (true, he will).
2- The price of oil.
3- The ruble to the dollar.

I can make no forecast, only repeat the riddle.


I hope none of that happens!
1/ I hope Putin does not make 63 !
2/I hope oil hits 45
3/ I hope the rubble hits  13 to the $USD
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 13, 2014, 12:17:11 AM
I hope none of that happens!
1/ I hope Putin does not make 63 !
2/I hope oil hits 45
3/ I hope the rubble hits  13 to the $USD

You want the 13 rubles to be worth 1 USD?  That is a confusing statement. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 13, 2014, 12:56:04 AM
Perhaps the US is finally going to provide some useful aid to Ukraine.

http://www.voanews.com/content/russia-protests-passage-of-pro-ukraine-bill-by-us-congress/2557035.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 13, 2014, 06:48:23 AM
Russia says will react if U.S. imposes new sanctions


MOSCOW  Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:00am EST

(Reuters) - Russia will take counter measures if Washington imposes new sanctions on Moscow over the Ukraine crisis, Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said on Saturday.

The U.S. Congress has readied new sanctions on Russian weapons companies and investors in the country's high-tech oil projects, but U.S. President Barack Obama has yet to sign a corresponding bill into law.

"We will not be able to leave that without an answer," Russia's Interfax news agency quoted Ryabkov as saying. He did not say what form of counter-measure Moscow might take.

Relations between Russia and the United States are at their lowest since the Cold War because of Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in March and its support for pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine.

The West says it has firm evidence that Russia has armed the rebels - an accusation that Moscow rejects - and has, together with the European Union, imposed several rounds of economic sanctions on Russian individuals and large companies.

Russia retaliated to the earlier sanctions by restricting food imports from a range of Western countries.

Russia on Friday criticized the Ukraine Freedom Support Act, which foresees further sanctions, saying Washington

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/13/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-sanctions-idUSKBN0JR06Y20141213
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 13, 2014, 09:15:03 AM
Perhaps the US is finally going to provide some useful aid to Ukraine.

http://www.voanews.com/content/russia-protests-passage-of-pro-ukraine-bill-by-us-congress/2557035.html

"If Obama signs . . . "
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 13, 2014, 09:24:05 AM
Anyone who says differently is either just dumb, or lying.

hmmm, I wonder who he could be referring to among us.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2014, 03:44:07 PM
I hope none of that happens!
1/ I hope Putin does not make 63 !
2/I hope oil hits 45
3/ I hope the rubble hits  13 to the $USD
You want the 13 rubles to be worth 1 USD?  That is a confusing statement. 

Lets try 113 Rubble to 1$USD
 I was getting on a flight and got hassled to hurry up !! I wish nothing good for Putins Russia!!
btw--oil could hit 35.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 13, 2014, 04:00:41 PM
Quote
I wish nothing good for Putins Russia

im not that anti the russian people or country , MR PUTIN , YES

i can only hope mr putin either reverses his actions in ukraine or is removed/resigns in the near future ,
as mendy states there are many good people who are believing his propoganda wholesale ,

sometimes it is so outragous it is amazing , but given mr vladamirs career and training , it is perfect playbook stuff he knows well

its very hard to counter that without proper balance in the media ,

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 04:14:04 PM
There is a riddle/joke told informally on the street:

3 things will hit 63 in 2015:

1- Mr. Putin's age (true, he will).
2- The price of oil.
3- The ruble to the dollar.

I can make no forecast, only repeat the riddle.

To be certain, the impact of reverse sanctions linked to the falling ruble and the appearance of price inflation has begun to impact life in Russia. Anyone who says differently is either just dumb, or lying. There is good reason why the government is asking the populace to endure for the sake of saving Russia from the evil West.
[/quote
т
Тупизна Ужасная
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 13, 2014, 07:11:15 PM
Тупизна Ужасная

There is such a thing as the 'PM' function if you wish to address a comment to a particular poster.
Otherwise posting in a foreign language is just plain inconsiderate to other forum readers whom 95% are English speakers only.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chicagoguy on December 13, 2014, 07:51:59 PM
There have been people posting some Russian on here for years. Since I can't read it I never paid much attention. It obviously wasn't meant for me and I did not care. Sort of like someone using a French phrase in a conversation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 13, 2014, 08:11:06 PM
I agree with JayH.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 08:42:57 PM
There is such a thing as the 'PM' function if you wish to address a comment to a particular poster.
Otherwise posting in a foreign language is just plain inconsiderate to other forum readers whom 95% are English speakers only.
Leave me alone
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 08:48:55 PM
There is such a thing as the 'PM' function if you wish to address a comment to a particular poster.
Otherwise posting in a foreign language is just plain inconsiderate to other forum readers whom 95% are English speakers only.
Ас  posted in foreign language-you were ok
Russian is not foreign)))))))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 13, 2014, 09:06:41 PM
Ас  posted in foreign language-you were ok
Russian is not foreign)))))))

This quoted bit is taken straight from the RWD Terms of Service section:

Rules of Conduct

The 'official' language is of this site is English. The vast majority of our board members are literate in English, hence, posts and communications are expected to be in English.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 09:09:14 PM
SU
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 13, 2014, 09:15:12 PM
I guess if the TOS doesn't apply now, then we can continue to refer to Putin as 'huilo'!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 13, 2014, 09:24:46 PM
Пошел ты- еще раз
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on December 13, 2014, 09:54:34 PM
I'm not that anti the russian people or country , MR PUTIN , YES


The vast majority of Russian people fully support Putin.

His actions are their actions.

It is a cop out to blame the leaders and hold their supporters blameless.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2014, 10:10:23 PM
im not that anti the russian people or country , MR PUTIN , YES

i can only hope mr putin either reverses his actions in ukraine or is removed/resigns in the near future ,
as mendy states there are many good people who are believing his propoganda wholesale ,

sometimes it is so outragous it is amazing , but given mr vladamirs career and training , it is perfect playbook stuff he knows well

its very hard to counter that without proper balance in the media ,

SX

I am not anti-Russian as such-- but  actions of a government that you subscribe to makes you as a citizen --responsible.If it takes starving Russians into submission to see reality-- so be it. Putin is attempting to inflict hardship on Ukraine-- he is responsible for killing many citizens.He has stolen part of Ukraine-- attempted to prevent economic p[progress without any care of the consequences of any of his actions. So where do you draw the line?I regret young Russian soldiers being killed also-- but they are there in Ukraine and killing people.
 What would the Russian people be saying if (when?) bombs start going off around Moscow--in the subway etc and paralyse Moscow-- will that make them understand their culpability?
Sure the propaganda BS is thick on the ground-- but there is no excuse or a way to rationalise obtuse stupidity and ignorance.
Here on the forum we see examples from different directions of that-- denial of the reality-- and the soft headed--"it's nothing to do with us" approach. Have any of those fools stopped to think how Ukrainians feel? Family and friend being maimed and killed-- by Russian military and Russian promoted and paid thugs-- all of Ukraine in a desperate struggle to survive and hopefully prosper in the future.
Ukrainians had the guts to stand up for what they believed and removed a Russian sponsored corrupt government--now they are showing the guts to fight for what they believe and are taking on the might of Russia both militarily and economically.
No SX-- it is not an option for Russians to simply opt out by saying nothing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 13, 2014, 10:17:26 PM
Ас  posted in foreign language-you were ok
Russian is not foreign)))))))

I usually post the bing translation.  However I agree with Doll; this forum is about Russia, Ukraine and other parts of the FSU including the former satellites of the FSU.  Russia is/was the dominant language.  How hard is it to run something through bing or google translate?  Granted those are far from perfect, but seems all should try.  Then ask your SO or Doll to help if need be.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 13, 2014, 10:19:23 PM
"If Obama signs . . . "

Exactly.  I had already seen the bills in Congress but did not post about them because they are contingent on Obama signing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 13, 2014, 10:22:51 PM
The vast majority of Russian people fully support Putin.

His actions are their actions.

It is a cop out to blame the leaders and hold their supporters blameless.

 :clapping:  Which is why the sanctions are good, because eventually Russians will wake-up and smell the coffee.  How long can they really blame the USA?  I think deep down they know why their economy has been targeted.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2014, 10:24:28 PM
This is interesting reading--I have posted only an outline summary here-- interesting reading however you translate-- a dissenting voice in Russia-- we can have no idea how many are suppressed
Putin has accelerated decay and the end of his power
   
About psyche Putin, whom he should be afraid of the future "breaking" the Russians and the reasons for the annexation of the Crimea - in an exclusive interview with TSN told a Russian journalist and writer.
Viktor Shenderovich - the legend of Russian television. In the late nineties, without him it is hard to imagine an independent Russian television. He was also a leading, and managing editor, screenwriter and television programs epoch of formation of Yeltsin's democracy.



And in 2014 he was declared a "friend of the Kiev junta" and almost equated to the "enemy of the people." He refers to it with humor so characteristic of him, adding that he is not just a "friend of the junta," and he actually "sell" this very junta. However, does not say for how much.

Looks cheerful and does not want me, fun jokes about the Kremlin perceives fabrications about Ukraine. Recalls the taste of fudge "the Russian-speaking baby" and raped in an epileptic fit 50-year-old woman.
.

About propaganda

Propaganda - is that Putin's government is doing a truly effective, it must be admitted. It really is a very high level. On Shameless, Goebbels, very efficient level. Lies must be shameless and repeated many times.

When you discover in Seattle people absolutely pumped Putin's propaganda, it makes you wonder very seriously. It works, it works, unfortunately, is much stronger than we all thought.


As of this state to go? It will be a tough out. It will be a very heavy yield. Surely be poisoning definitely be breaking. Very hard, as after all the drug. After all the euphoria comes breaking. And it will be very difficult, traumatic years for the Russian mass consciousness. And the stronger the euphoria, the more it drove into a vein laughing matter, the harder it will be then. It is already clear. Return to reality will be very difficult.

 Viktor Shenderovich
UNIAN
Ukrainian theme for Putin has always been, this topic has always rubbed - Shenderovich
About Ukraine for Putin

Ukrainian theme for Putin has always been, this topic has always rubbed. And became unbearable painful in the era of the second Maidan .

One of the pillars of imperial propaganda - a special Slavic idea of ​​the image control. Patriarchal, paternalistic democracy is not for us. Not for the Slavs. We have our own way. Special. And when Kiev - the mother of Russian cities - demonstrates that turns out to be a democracy works, it turns out that the people coming to the area, the administration may vary, it turns out that there is no control of the Slavic special protection from democracy ... Of course, Putin is very painful subject.

About the enemies of Russia

Enemies of Russia has always had a lot of. Enemies changed. Our enemies were Estonians and Georgians. Enemies changed by clicking the - from the administration. Well, there is a constant enemy - of course, America. Sometimes struggled forward London. Sometimes - corruption of Europe.

Maidan was a challenge, and he responded to it. It is therefore not surprising that Ukraine has become the main enemy. Maidan, Ukraine, free Ukraine - is the main enemy. Obviously, much more important than Georgia and Estonia.

The annexation of the Crimea

I think that, in fact, the annexation of the Crimea was improvisation. It was a reflex hyenas - that's when it became clear that Ukraine has no official power. Although Putin supported Yanukovych and did everything to keep him - well run, well-controlled and quite comfortable, and at least counteracting democratic Ukraine.

Tactics and Strategies

Putin is very bad strategy. I'm afraid no strategy. But very strong tactics. In muddy water, he very quickly and brazenly oriented. Russia itself pushed, thrown from the civilized countries. Of course, Putin accelerated decay and the end of their power. Because a year ago we had a hard stagnation, Andropov was. With a relatively stable oil economy, with absolutely controlled inner life.




About signatures in support of the annexation of the Crimea





My relationship with Putin's state is obvious - they are hostile
And then it can be normal as a person who is opposed to the glorious Russian administration or to sell as I ... "Ukrainian junta." For several months, my official position on Russian television - national traitors and scum. In 2014 I moved to the rank of a personal enemy of the state.


Who should be afraid of Putin

In general, Putin will not envy today, he cut off his escape route. This is his personal drama, but in this drama, and Russia. Because he did not leave, and it is quite clear. As soon as he moves away from the levers, they immediately begin to remove fingerprints.

Interviewed by TSN Dmitry Svyatnenko
http://ru.tsn.ua/interview/putin-uskoril-raspad-i-konec-svoey-vlasti-400955.html
http://ru.tsn.ua/interview/putin-uskoril-raspad-i-konec-svoey-vlasti-400955.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: PaulK on December 13, 2014, 11:22:50 PM
Wow, it's amazing to see "Doll's" name here, I remember you from RWG  :o
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 12:54:34 AM
Wow, it's amazing to see "Doll's" name here, I remember you from RWG  :o
Hello
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 12:58:46 AM
Shenderovich is nobody in Russia, to quote  him is waste of time
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 01:02:08 AM

This should drop the ruble about 5 more.  :clapping: 70 by the New Year maybe conservative.  :crackwhip:

Oil Seen Dropping to $55 Next Week as Price Rout Deepens
By Moming Zhou and Lynn Doan  Dec 12, 2014 11:38 PM GMT+0200   64 Comments    Email  Print   

Benchmark U.S. oil prices are poised to test $55 a barrel after a six-month rout pushed crude to the lowest in five years.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-12/oil-seen-dropping-to-55-next-week-as-price-rout-deepens.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 01:14:53 AM
Igor( Girkin) Gunmen admitted the possibility of contact with the Hague Tribunal

14:12 December 13, 2014
Former Defense Minister self-proclaimed "Donetsk People's Republic" Igor arrow (Girkin) believes that he and Russian President Vladimir Putin may be waiting for the International Military Tribunal in The Hague, if the Russian government will count on a peaceful settlement of the Ukrainian conflict.
According to him, during the truce Ukraine "frantic pace" restores the army, "that no" vacationers "(Prime Minister" DNR "Alexander Zakharchenko in August reported that on the side of the separatists fighting Russian troops from taking vacation - Rain) could not change the balance on the battlefield. "

"For this same winter sanctions should seriously undermine the willingness of the Russian public" to protect Russian world ", and especially - the loyalty of our officials (already extremely doubtful). A NATO, meanwhile, should finalize the opinion of its citizens for the need for direct military assistance, and even armed intervention in the conflict "over the sovereignty of Ukraine", "- says Fusiliers. By the spring, according to him, the population of "completely destroyed" Donbass will refer to Putin "hatred", the number of refugees increased by a few hundred thousand, and the army of Ukraine, which will be introduced NATO troops take "attack", "that without direct large-scale intervention of the Armed Forces will lead to a rapid defeat of five-seven times inferior in number and order demoralized militia. "

Shooters also warned of the possibility of "Moscow Maidan", which could begin on the background of "economic collapse" and "no concealed betrayal of the Russian population (Donbass)."

"If he (Putin) will continue in the same spirit as it is now, then we will have to be neighbors ... for cameras in The Hague. If we are still alive there dovezut, of course, "- said the former defense minister," DNR ".

In mid-August 2014, after the resignation of the prime minister, "DNR" Alexander Beard, Igor Strelkov was removed from his post as chief of the armed formations of the separatists. Later, in early September, Shooters gave a press conference in Moscow. At its end, he made it clear that he does not like what is happening in eastern Ukraine, where the armistice was announced. However, he expressed his willingness to abide by the decision of Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom he considers "the only legitimate commander in chief."
http://tvrain.ru/articles/igor_strelkov_dopustil_vozmozhnost_popadanija_v_gaagskij_tribunal-379367/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 01:27:37 AM
Hey Doll, Don't look at it as if the ruble is falling into the abyss.
(
 Take the Kremlins view instead!  The ruble is stable! :cluebat:
 
 (and the rest of the worlds economies are surging)  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 02:34:38 AM
Russians demand help with rocketing mortgages as rouble slides


Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:38am EST

By Gabriela Baczynska and Elena Fabrichnaya
MOSCOW, Dec 12 (Reuters) - About 100 Russians who have seen their mortgage payments rocket due to the plunge in the value of the rouble took to the streets of central Moscow on Friday to demand state help.

It was one of the first significant protests over the currency, which has fallen more than 40 percent against the U.S. dollar this year, pushing up the cost not only of imported goods but also of the low-interest foreign-currency mortgages that the protesters had taken out.

"We are Russian citizens. We don't want to be left without a roof over our heads. We don't want to default," said Yelena Lebedenko, an accountant whose monthly repayments have in seven years risen from 40,000 roubles to nearly 90,000.

"We want to pay loans based on the exchange rate at the time we signed the papers. The authorities, our government, must see to that."

Most of the anger appeared to be aimed at the central bank and government rather than at President Vladimir Putin, whose ratings have been sky-high since the start of the Ukraine crisis and Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in March.

Yet his popularity is based partly on the relative financial stability and prosperity of most of his 15 years in power, and the Kremlin has been wary of any signs of discontent since big protests in the winter of 2011-12 after a parliamentary election marred by accusations of fraud.

A handful of protesters who tried to picket the headquarters of the central bank on Friday were quickly asked to leave, and joined the larger rally on a snow-covered boulevard nearby.

Their banners read: "Save our families from the rouble rate" and "The central bank stole our future".

"Since I took my mortgage, my salary has remained at 70,000 roubles but my monthly payment now is 85,000 a month," said Irina, a woman in her 30s who works in an advertising firm.

"I want justice. They should not only help the banks but people like me ... I've already borrowed from all my friends. They're not taking my calls any more."

The central bank says the total value of foreign-currency mortgages stood at 129 billion roubles on Nov. 1, a small fraction of the 7 trillion in rouble mortgages.

The rouble was trading at 33 to the U.S. dollar at the start of the year, but on Friday fell past 57 (58.21 now) to the dollar.

Its plunge has largely followed a slide in the price of oil, Russia's predominant source of foreign currency, highlighting the lack of a competitive manufacturing base that Putin's critics say he has done little to address.

The central bank said on Friday it could not interfere in arrangements between commercial banks and their clients. (Writing by Gabriela Baczynska, Editing by Timothy Heritage and Kevin Liffey
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/12/russia-rouble-protest-idUSL6N0TW1Q020141212
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 14, 2014, 03:14:22 AM
Oh dear! It looks like even the Kremlin propaganda machine is unable to spin reality into positive news any more...

http://zik.ua/en/news/2014/12/14/medvedev_to_russians_tighten_belts_and_see_what_happens_549014

More important question is; is huilo going to join the rest of his citizens in eating dirt, or is he going to hide from public view while he consumes his fine gourmet meals?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 14, 2014, 04:48:17 AM
Oh dear! It looks like even the Kremlin propaganda machine is unable to spin reality into positive news any more...

Why do you think there are no positive news anymore? Please don't become like the insect on the right side of this picture (named as Two World-Views):
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/ru_ua_by/67833350/477679/477679_600.jpg)
translation: the fragrance of flowers around (left); the shit and disposal dumps around (right)

About positive news I'll list some of them for the last two monthes:

-  India and Russia signed a few days ago 20 agreements including a contract to implement two reactors of the Kudankulam nuclear power plant,  agreed on  nuclear cooperation  to build at least 10 more reactors,  and a joint investment fund of $1 billion for Indian infrastructure and hydroelectric projects. For the chopper deal in the first phase, the order could be for 384 helicopters, which could subsequently be increased to 600 to replace the ailing Cheetah/Chetak fleet used by the Indian Army and air force.
Other strategic deals covered oil supply, infrastructure and an increase in direct diamond sales to India by Russian firm Alrosa.

- The fifth summit of the Turkey-Russia High Level Cooperation Council, held in Ankara on Dec. 1, ended with the signing of agreements. The new gas route Blue Stream replacing the South Stream will be built between Turkey and Russia. That will raise Turkey’s gas dependence on Russia to about 70%, Turkey will be dependent on Russia also in nuclear energy.  The project for the $20-billion Akkuyu nuclear power plant, which will have a capacity of 4,800 megawatts and will meet 16% of Turkey’s energy demand, has been awarded to Russia’s state nuclear energy company Rosatom, meaning that Rosatom and Gazprom together will dominate 74% of Turkey’s energy market in the future.

- On Nov. 9 in Beijing, Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping signed a preliminary agreement under which the Kremlin-run monopoly Gazprom eventually would supply nearly one-fifth of the gas China is expected to need until 2020. Under the new deal, nearly as massive as the $400 billion agreement reached earlier this year, Gazprom said it plans to supply up to 30 billion cubic meters of gas per year from western Siberia to China in the next 30 years. Under the previous deal, Beijing will import 38 billion cubic meters of gas from eastern Siberia via the Power of Siberia pipeline, where construction began on Sept. 1.

- The Russian Navy has successfully test-fired a new intercontinental ballistic missile for a second time in recent months, proving its reliability after decades of failures.

- For the second year running, Forbes named the Russian president as the world’s most powerful person.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 05:16:30 AM
Hey Doll, Don't look at it as if the ruble is falling into the abyss.
(
 Take the Kremlins view instead!  The ruble is stable! :cluebat:
 
 (and the rest of the worlds economies are surging)  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
what is this " hey" about?
I wrote already that Russia survived  4 TIMES ( TIMES) drop of rouble.
 Russia is  still there and will always be
My older son is there, we talk almost daily.
Yes, things are getting harder, but as for my concern- I can help him from here.
Hey what ?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 10:00:25 AM
Why do you think there are no positive news anymore?


Clearly there IS positive news coming out of Russia, if a person is interested.  It appears to me that the nation is finding a harbor for their resources that doesn't include the EU.  It would be very easy to find negative things to say all day about any country if that was what a person chose  to do. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 14, 2014, 11:42:42 AM
- For the second year running, Forbes named the Russian president as the world’s most powerful person.

Beavis, you might want to double check this statement! (Because it's untrue)
And even if it were it's not necessarily a good thing. Read the statement from Time about the "honor".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 14, 2014, 12:04:50 PM
I guess if the TOS doesn't apply now, then we can continue to refer to Putin as 'huilo'!

So we can call him that now?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 12:13:09 PM
I wrote already that Russia survived  4 TIMES ( TIMES) drop of rouble.
 Russia is  still there and will always be
My older son is there, we talk almost daily.
Yes, things are getting harder, but as for my concern- I can help him from here.

Every country can survive economic uncertainty and plagues.  Look at Iraq for a more extreme example.

The point is not whether a country can survive (humans are resilient), but why it should.  Almost all of the negative economic consequences Russia is facing are self imposed, and, for what?  Security?  Nope.  Future prosperity?  Nope.  Tell me what is being achieved for the overall benefit of the average Russian with all of this?

Your son is fortunate to have a mother abroad to help ease the economic burden on his family.  What about all those other sons who don't have that option?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 12:50:27 PM
Security
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:01:32 PM
Two questions.

1.  How was Russia's security compromised before it invaded Crimea and Donbas?

2. How has Russia's security been compromised otherwise?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 01:19:58 PM
Two questions.

1.  How was Russia's security compromised before it invaded Crimea and Donbas?

2. How has Russia's security been compromised otherwise?
I'd like to chime in here too....


From my viewpoint, had Russia EVENTUALLY lost access to Crimea it would have been a blow to their security.  In addition, more and more often if a nation conducts internal affairs in a manner that the USA determines is not in keeping with the standards it insists upon, it will impose sanctions...now had the whole of Ukraine turned towards the EU and USA, they  could have just been another country towing the line against Russia...at some point....at least this is how Russia may see it...in addition I, and many others have become convinced that the USA acts in it's own interests often at the expense of other nations and it peoples.     


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 01:23:30 PM
Two questions.


2. How has Russia's security been compromised otherwise?
I mean facing sanction.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:28:44 PM
I'd like to chime in here too....


From my viewpoint, had Russia EVENTUALLY lost access to Crimea it would have been a blow to their security.  In addition, more and more often if a nation conducts internal affairs in a manner that the USA determines is not in keeping with the standards it insists upon, it will impose sanctions...now had the whole of Ukraine turned towards the EU and USA, they  could have just been another country towing the line against Russia...at some point....at least this is how Russia may see it...in addition I, and many others have become convinced that the USA acts in it's own interests often at the expense of other nations and it peoples.     


Fathertime!


Russia had a lease for its Black Sea Fleet to 2042.   Moreover, as I have posted before, the Black Sea is a closed sea, as the Dardanelles are controlled neither by Russia nor Ukraine, but by Turkey so how, exactly, does it provide any form of security?


Any confrontation between the US and Russia (excluding proxies) will not involve sea or even land forces, so I reject this argument completely.


EU and US policy are not always in alignment.   Therefore, Ukraine's economic and, presumably, political movement to the EU is irrelevant vis a vis the U.S.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:29:14 PM
I mean facing sanction.


I am not following what you are saying.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 01:36:39 PM

I am not following what you are saying.
you asked why Russia keeps standing sanctions. I answered
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 01:39:29 PM
No, I asked how Russia's security had been compromised, such that it needed to invade its neighbour and endure economic upheaval.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 02:18:27 PM
No, I asked how Russia's security had been compromised, such that it needed to invade its neighbour and endure economic upheaval.
ok- economic security

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 02:20:48 PM
How has Russia's economic security been strengthened by all that has occurred in the past year?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 14, 2014, 02:58:58 PM
ok- economic security

Ahhhhh...So the root cause of all this is because Ukraine don't want to join huilo's silly little Euroasian Union?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 14, 2014, 05:16:13 PM
Quote
JAY H
No SX-- it is not an option for Russians to simply opt out by saying nothing.

JAY ,while i agree with you on many levels ,

it also needs to be recognised the mind set of many russians and the low level of belief that they can /do have any ability to have an impact on the politics of their nation , & their deep understanding of the consequences if they did wish to stand up and be counted


it almost goes against the culture of the people to publicly question the gov, , mistrust /conspiracy is the norm among people who see themselves as expendable for the state in many ways

while we may not agree with them , they know standing up for their rights or values has a huge negative impact on them , their familys etc, & thats if they believe strongly enough to do so anyway ,

its easy for us to make judgements from here , but its a brave person to do it in russia id think

im guessing , most will hunker down and stoikly wait it out whatever comes along , as that is the russian way


SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 14, 2014, 05:52:02 PM
It is a cop out to blame the leaders and hold their supporters blameless.

ML im unable to hate or blame the russian people quite so much as maybe others might , see my post above , mr putin on the other hand , is fair game

Quote
The vast majority of Russian people fully support Putin.

if you trust the polling as completly independent ?

Quote
His actions are their actions.


not at all , thats way to simplistic imo

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 07:15:51 PM

   Moreover, as I have posted before, the Black Sea is a closed sea, as the Dardanelles are controlled neither by Russia nor Ukraine, but by Turkey so how, exactly, does it provide any form of security?
 


This is a separate issue involving Turkey and is not relevant.





Any confrontation between the US and Russia (excluding proxies) will not involve sea or even land forces, so I reject this argument completely.

I have to chuckle if you REALLY believe the sea doesn't matter.  It does matter....if it made no difference why are nations building up their Navy?


 


EU and US policy are not always in alignment.   Therefore, Ukraine's economic and, presumably, political movement to the EU is irrelevant vis a vis the U.S.
The EU and US policy are not ALWAYS in perfect alignment, but they are on basically the same page against Russia regarding the sanctions and are often on the same side during conflicts...or when the chips are down.


Fathertime!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 07:36:23 PM

Viva Germany!<<Thousands of Germans have staged a protest rally to express their anger at the West’s warmongering policies against Russia over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.At least 3,500 people took part in the protest, organized by the German Peace Movement, in the capital Berlin on Saturday.The demonstrators marched to the presidential Bellevue palace to condemn the West’s confrontation with Russia over the conflict in Ukraine.They expressed concern that the policies adopted by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) under the influence of the United States will lead to further escalation of tensions in Europe.The protesters also called for the dissolution of the Western military alliance, an immediate withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Germany’s Büchel Air Base, and the closure of the US-run Ramstein Air Base in the country’s southwestern part.>>http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14 ... -policies/ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14/390162/germans-protest-antirussia-policies/)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 07:49:34 PM

This is a separate issue involving Turkey and is not relevant.


It certainly is relevant if, per your assertion, Russia needed the Black Sea for its "protection".  It already has a more suitable location for a better sea port than Sevastopol.  However, a sea where your fleet is trapped by a NATO member is not exactly a big win, is it?

Quote
I have to chuckle if you REALLY believe the sea doesn't matter.  It does matter....if it made no difference why are nations building up their Navy?The EU and US policy are not ALWAYS in perfect alignment, but they are on basically the same page against Russia regarding the sanctions and are often on the same side during conflicts...or when the chips are down.


Had Russia not invaded a sovereign nation on European soil, and its leader not bold facedly  lied, there would be no sanctions.


Please tell me exactly how the Black Sea, which can be closed off, its ships unable to exit it, can matter militarily.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 07:51:11 PM
Viva Germany!<<Thousands of Germans have staged a protest rally to express their anger at the West’s warmongering policies against Russia over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.At least 3,500 people took part in the protest, organized by the German Peace Movement, in the capital Berlin on Saturday.The demonstrators marched to the presidential Bellevue palace to condemn the West’s confrontation with Russia over the conflict in Ukraine.They expressed concern that the policies adopted by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) under the influence of the United States will lead to further escalation of tensions in Europe.The protesters also called for the dissolution of the Western military alliance, an immediate withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Germany’s Büchel Air Base, and the closure of the US-run Ramstein Air Base in the country’s southwestern part.>>http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14 ... -policies/ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14/390162/germans-protest-antirussia-policies/)


The same useful idiots who protested for unilateral disarmament by the West in the 1980's.  They were wrong then, as they are wrong now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 14, 2014, 07:56:33 PM
I read, I think yesterday, that Russian fighters had invaded Sweden's airspace (again) and almost collided with a passenger jet.    This provocation is indicative of Russia actions against almost all nations bordering it.

I'm just curious what our Russian apologists think about this.  Do you think its fictitious?  Do you think it is in response to incursions by NATO in Russia?  Why would a nation continue to be belligerent?  What would be the basis for intentionally violating the airspace of another country?  Please, enlighten us. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 07:58:46 PM

The same useful idiots who protested for unilateral disarmament by the West in the 1980's.  They were wrong then, as they are wrong now.
Wow! " Idiot"
It is your opinion and nothing else
Europe is getting tired of confrontation
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:00:10 PM
Hey, I'm quoting Lenin!


Yes, it is my opinion.  But history has proven me right in the first instance.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 08:00:42 PM
I read, I think yesterday, that Russian fighters had invaded Sweden's airspace (again) and almost collided with a passenger jet.    This provocation is indicative of Russia actions against almost all nations bordering it.

I'm just curious what our Russian apologists think about this.  Do you think its fictitious?  Do you think it is in response to incursions by NATO in Russia?  Why would a nation continue to be belligerent?  What would be the basis for intentionally violating the airspace of another country?  Please, enlighten us.
Link?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:02:13 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-jet-civilian-airliner-nearly-collide-sweden-says-1.2872780
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 08:04:21 PM

It certainly is relevant if, per your assertion, Russia needed the Black Sea for its "protection".  It already has a more suitable location for a better sea port than Sevastopol.  However, a sea where your fleet is trapped by a NATO member is not exactly a big win, is it?


Had Russia not invaded a sovereign nation on European soil, and its leader not bold facedly  lied, there would be no sanctions.


Please tell me exactly how the Black Sea, which can be closed off, its ships unable to exit it, can matter militarily.


and when was the black sea last closed off to Russia? would Russia accept that NOW?  Would the USA REALLY permit the Panama Canal to be closed to us?
if the black sea could be closed but never is....then that means it is open....if it is open then it serves a strategic purpose for Russia....


So why again is the navy irrelevant to warfare?


I don't think your argument that Crimea didn't matter to Russia strategically remains flawed.  Other more credible arguments can be made, but that is NOT one of them


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 14, 2014, 08:10:32 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-jet-civilian-airliner-nearly-collide-sweden-says-1.2872780

Doll probably won't believe the content of this link because it didn't come from the Russian propaganda ministry state media!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 08:21:44 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-jet-civilian-airliner-nearly-collide-sweden-says-1.2872780 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian-jet-civilian-airliner-nearly-collide-sweden-says-1.2872780)
where is it said " invaded"? It is an international space
A Russian military jet nearly collided with a commercial passenger airplane in international airspace near southern Sweden on Friday, the Swedish authorities said, but Russia insisted on Sunday that its jet had kept at a safe distance.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:23:17 PM
The Seventh Fleet has been located permanently in the Mediterranean Sea since WWII.  They would de facto control what Turkey does.

The Soviets kept nuclear subs in Gibraltar for the same reason.

I read your post to my better half, who served in the Soviet military.  His response - "Anyone who believes the Black Sea has any strategic value knows nothing about the navy or naval strategy.  The Russians keep the fleet there because it's been there for 200 years.  Even when I was in the navy, everyone knew the Black Sea Fleet meant nothing.  It was, and is known, as "kaluzha" (the "Muddy Puddle" Fleet).  Even at the time I was in the navy, the technology made the Black Sea Fleet useless.  Today, it is less than that.  The Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet, which open to seas, are different."  He also said "Anyone who believes there was any military purpose for retaking Crimea knows nothing about Russia or Russian mentality.  It is about history, nothing more.  The idiot who gave Crimea to Ukraine thought the commies would rule forever." (Note, he is more ethnically Russian than Ukrainian.)


Even if we assumed your preposterous assertion has any merit, Russia already had a fleet in a better port on the Black Sea, at Novorossiysk.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:24:37 PM
where is it said " invaded"? It is an international space
A Russian military jet nearly collided with a commercial passenger airplane in international airspace near southern Sweden on Friday, the Swedish authorities said, but Russia insisted on Sunday that its jet had kept at a safe distance.


Well, you'll have to ask jone for the choice of his words, not me.  However, I believe he was using "invaded" as a synonym for "entering" airspace where a commercial airliner was flying, without adequate warnings.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 08:37:07 PM
It is international space
( Novorossyisk is much worse as a port than Sevastopol)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 14, 2014, 08:42:30 PM
I read, I think yesterday, that Russian fighters had invaded Sweden's airspace (again) and almost collided with a passenger jet.    This provocation is indicative of Russia actions against almost all nations bordering it.

I'm just curious what our Russian apologists think about this.  Do you think its fictitious?  Do you think it is in response to incursions by NATO in Russia?  Why would a nation continue to be belligerent?  What would be the basis for intentionally violating the airspace of another country?  Please, enlighten us.
Read it again, nobody INVADED
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:44:36 PM
( Novorossyisk is much worse as a port than Sevastopol)


No, it is a much deeper port than Sevastopol.  That is why all the big ocean liners/cargo ships dock there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 08:54:28 PM
My husband's relative, founder of the fleet in Sevastopol -




(http://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/439933/98202434/stock-photo-ussr-circa-a-stamp-printed-in-ussr-shows-portrait-russian-admiral-m-p-lazarev-98202434.jpg)




That fleet was founded for sail ships.  It is still a very small port.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 14, 2014, 09:01:06 PM
Viva Germany!<<Thousands of Germans have staged a protest rally to express their anger at the West’s warmongering policies against Russia over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.At least 3,500 people took part in the protest, organized by the German Peace Movement, in the capital Berlin on Saturday.The demonstrators marched to the presidential Bellevue palace to condemn the West’s confrontation with Russia over the conflict in Ukraine.They expressed concern that the policies adopted by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) under the influence of the United States will lead to further escalation of tensions in Europe.The protesters also called for the dissolution of the Western military alliance, an immediate withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Germany’s Büchel Air Base, and the closure of the US-run Ramstein Air Base in the country’s southwestern part.>>http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14 ... -policies/ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14/390162/germans-protest-antirussia-policies/)

WOW!  3500 protesters.    ;D ;D ;D ;D

Maybe a good idea though.  Pull out of NATO and the UN, let these cowards try to defend themselves without US support. After spending their own money to build a military they might have second thoughts (assuming they are not invaded and 'annexed' in the mean time)!  Same goes for much of Europe.

In today's world, a "Coalition of the willing" might be a better way to deal with conflicts.  Any organization that becomes so large that a unanimous agreement must be made to take any action becomes a rather useless pipe-dream.   Same is true when a rogue nation has veto power over the rest of the members.

The only morally acceptable resolution to the Russian/Ukraine conflict is for Russia to withdraw all military and civilian puppets from Crimea and Eastern Ukraine and fully pay for reparations.  Ukraine did not invade and annex Russia, it is Russia that invaded Ukraine as well as other territories.  All the diplomatic talks and BS does not deter a nut case that uses military force to conquer another nation.  Only military force by allied nations will stop Putin from his aggression in Europe.  Economic sanctions is a nice (peaceful) idea, but it takes so long to be effective, the damage will already be done and countless lives lost during the process.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 14, 2014, 09:03:29 PM
Read it again, nobody INVADED

Where is that brick that someone posted a while back?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 09:06:33 PM
The Seventh Fleet has been located permanently in the Mediterranean Sea since WWII.  They would de facto control what Turkey does.

The Soviets kept nuclear subs in Gibraltar for the same reason.

I read your post to my better half, who served in the Soviet military.  His response - "Anyone who believes the Black Sea has any strategic value knows nothing about the navy or naval strategy.  The Russians keep the fleet there because it's been there for 200 years.  Even when I was in the navy, everyone knew the Black Sea Fleet meant nothing.  It was, and is known, as "kaluzha" (the "Muddy Puddle" Fleet).  Even at the time I was in the navy, the technology made the Black Sea Fleet useless.  Today, it is less than that.  The Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet, which open to seas, are different."  He also said "Anyone who believes there was any military purpose for retaking Crimea knows nothing about Russia or Russian mentality.  It is about history, nothing more.  The idiot who gave Crimea to Ukraine thought the commies would rule forever." (Note, he is more ethnically Russian than Ukrainian.)


Even if we assumed your preposterous assertion has any merit, Russia already had a fleet in a better port on the Black Sea, at Novorossiysk.


Your husband is not posting here (is he?) and your characterization of his opinion, is nothing more than another opinion.  You or he did not refute the specific comments I made. 


You can argue Crimea is about history, and I'm sure that isn't entirely untrue...but  I think there is a case that it also has strategic purposes as well.  Turkey does not close down the sea to Russia and it is doubtful they ever will. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 14, 2014, 09:08:59 PM

A Russian military jet nearly collided with a commercial passenger airplane in international airspace near southern Sweden on Friday, the Swedish authorities said, but Russia insisted on Sunday that its jet had kept at a safe distance.

I hope someone breath tested that Russian pilot to make sure he wasn't drunk!

Now, which country should we believe? Tough choice...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2014, 09:11:03 PM
Quote
You can argue Crimea is about history, and I'm sure that isn't entirely untrue...but  I think there is a case that it also has strategic purposes as well.  Turkey does not close down the sea to Russia and it is doubtful they ever will. 


Turkey has closed the Dardenelles numerous times.  You can google it.


When Russian naval officers refer the fleet as a "mud fleet", and that was long before the advanced weaponry of today, you know it has no military value.  So, you can stubbornly hold to your opinion, but it is flawed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 14, 2014, 09:17:51 PM

Your husband is not posting here (is he?) and your characterization of his opinion, is nothing more than another opinion.  You or he did not refute the specific comments I made. 


You can argue Crimea is about history, and I'm sure that isn't entirely untrue...but  I think there is a case that it also has strategic purposes as well.  Turkey does not close down the sea to Russia and it is doubtful they ever will. 


Fathertime!

 

I don't think you are the sharpest tool in the shed.   ;D

Russia had a long term lease for the Naval base at Sevestopol and had they not invaded Crimea they would have continued to have it for many years to come.  Furthermore, the times we spent in Sevestopol were peaceful and there was no apparent animosity between Ukrainians (Crimean s) and the Russians (military and families) that we ever witnessed.    It is clearly Putin that created the animosity in Crimea and East Ukraine.

The only mistake made by Ukraine's new government was the stupid idea of limiting the Russian language (at least it was perceived that way by Russian speakers).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 09:26:06 PM
I don't think you are the sharpest tool in the shed.   ;D

Russia had a long term lease for the Naval base at Sevestopol and had they not invaded Crimea they would have continued to have it for many years to come.  Furthermore, the times we spent in Sevestopol were peaceful and there was no apparent animosity between Ukrainians (Crimean s) and the Russians (military and families) that we ever witnessed.    It is clearly Putin that created the animosity in Crimea and East Ukraine.

The only mistake made by Ukraine's new government was the stupid idea of limiting the Russian language (at least it was perceived that way by Russian speakers).


Yes Yes, but I KNOW you are not the sharpest tool in the shed!  :D


The preponderance of the rest of your post is opinion and conjecture....and I don't think the Russians would agree with.

Fathertime!



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 14, 2014, 09:31:25 PM

Turkey has closed the Dardenelles numerous times.  You can google it.


When Russian naval officers refer the fleet as a "mud fleet", and that was long before the advanced weaponry of today, you know it has no military value.  So, you can stubbornly hold to your opinion, but it is flawed.


Actually you can present the closures to strengthen your case, but it is obvious you won't and for good reason.


So you are committed to saying that Crimea has NO military value...I'm comfy with you on record as having that opinion...obviously we can disagree. 


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 14, 2014, 09:40:39 PM
Viva Germany!<<Thousands of Germans have staged a protest rally to express their anger at the West’s warmongering policies against Russia over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.At least 3,500 people took part in the protest, organized by the German Peace Movement, in the capital Berlin on Saturday.The demonstrators marched to the presidential Bellevue palace to condemn the West’s confrontation with Russia over the conflict in Ukraine.They expressed concern that the policies adopted by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) under the influence of the United States will lead to further escalation of tensions in Europe.The protesters also called for the dissolution of the Western military alliance, an immediate withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Germany’s Büchel Air Base, and the closure of the US-run Ramstein Air Base in the country’s southwestern part.>>http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14 ... -policies/ (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/14/390162/germans-protest-antirussia-policies/)


As protests in Europe go 3,500 is a tiny number.  Insignifigant would be an understatement. 

Doll you should read the latest poll results regarding German public opinion about Russia.  Overall most Germans approve of the way that Angela Merkel has handled the crisis and they distrust Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 14, 2014, 10:41:20 PM
One of the key components of membership in NATO is that a member nation cannot lease out a base to another, non-member nation within its territory.  I know that this is old ground, but should Ukraine choose to apply for membership in NATO, at least Krim will no longer prevent such membership.

I also note that the lease for the naval base and troops stationed in Krim was paid to Ukraine in the form of a discount on Gas prices, which, as soon as Krim was seized, was negated by the Russian government.  In other words, 'we're paying you for your naval base, but now that we've invaded you and taken your land from you, we'll no longer pay for using that land'.

Strategically, Krim offers nothing except oil drilling rights to Russia.  The naval base serves as an additional harbor, but one already in its possession. 

The belligerence that Russia now demonstrates to its neighbors was foisted on it by its actions in Krim.  One could argue that everything that has happened since the Olympics, and the spiraling of the Russian economy can all be attributed to the kneejerk reaction by the Russian government to EuroMaiden.

Russia was on shaky ground prior to the Olympics, but once the invasion occurred and the sanctions took hold, Russia's government was polarized and the hawks have certainly gained control over the foreign affairs of the country.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 15, 2014, 01:54:26 AM
I read, I think yesterday, that Russian fighters had invaded Sweden's airspace (again) and almost collided with a passenger jet.    This provocation is indicative of Russia actions against almost all nations bordering it.

I'm just curious what our Russian apologists think about this.  Do you think its fictitious?  Do you think it is in response to incursions by NATO in Russia?  Why would a nation continue to be belligerent?  What would be the basis for intentionally violating the airspace of another country?  Please, enlighten us.

Jone, you impressed me as an intelligent man. So why you can not see the fakes?  :)
You have demonstarted   an example of west propaganda zombification when writing about  violating the airspace of another country.
OK, I have to help victims of info wars :D

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/14/world/europe/sweden-russia-planes-near-collision/
Quote
(CNN) -- A Russian military intelligence plane nearly collided with a commercial passenger jet south of Sweden on Friday, the Swedish air force chief said Sunday.

The incident in international airspace forced the passenger flight en route from Denmark to Sweden to change course, Maj. Gen. Micael Byden said.

But the Russian Defense Ministry refuted the notion that one of its warplanes nearly collided with a passenger jet.

And a spokesman for Scandinavian Airlines said reports of danger to the plane or passengers were "blown out of proportion."

Knut Morten Johansen said the flight wasn't forced to change course, but that the pilot took normal advice from air traffic control.

"No security borders were breached," he said, adding that it was a "totally safe flight."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 15, 2014, 02:00:47 AM
Strategically, Krim offers nothing except oil drilling rights to Russia.  The naval base serves as an additional harbor, but one already in its possession. 

As Russia's Prime Minister Medvedev said Crimea is not an economic issue. Crimea is Russian history and fate.
I agree with Medvedev.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 15, 2014, 02:11:23 AM
Krim was recent history, and short at that in the larger scheme of things. Using the common logic now employed, one could argue that Piter is Swedish, and with the same amount of justification.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 15, 2014, 03:09:05 AM
While we're talking about giving land back, may as well hand back parts of Siberia to China.
The Chinese would probably do a much better job with Siberia than under its current management.

Hmmm...China will gain energy independence once they annex Siberia. Frightening prospect for the rest of the world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 15, 2014, 03:21:21 AM
Krim was recent history, and short at that in the larger scheme of things. Using the common logic now employed, one could argue that Piter is Swedish, and with the same amount of justification.

I would agree about the same amount of justification if Piter was still populated by Swedes.

BTW, Piter was not existing during Swedish times  :D

While we're talking about giving land back, may as well hand back parts of Siberia to China.

Hand back? You have huge gaps in knowledge of Chinese  history and geography as well as Siberian.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 15, 2014, 03:28:38 AM
Should Russia hand back the Kuban region that was exchanged for Krym?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 15, 2014, 03:33:57 AM
Quote
I would agree about the same amount of justification if Piter was still populated by Swedes.

You are too intelligent to be so blind, my friend. Should we return Kaliningrad? Seems like "history" and "justice" would dictate that it be returned if we hope to make a case for Krim.

If you truly believe in the principle of referendums alone deciding allegiance, then perhaps we should revisit the Chechen situation.


Quote
BTW, Piter was not existing during Swedish times

Swamp land it was, and the deaths of many a serf built that beautiful city. The LAND is what we were talking about, and that you know also.  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 15, 2014, 04:14:20 AM
Should we return Kaliningrad? Seems like "history" and "justice" would dictate that it be returned if we hope to make a case for Krim.

You should add the third component,  declaration of will of the people. Are we're going to decide their fate, you and me, not asking them?  :)

Quote
If you truly believe in the principle of referendums alone deciding allegiance, then perhaps we should revisit the Chechen situation.

If you raised the Chechen situation as an argument you must approve the war in Chechnya as the legitimate way to settle similar disputes. Chechya is the case we have to avoid, not to reproduce.
I would like more the ruling of the International Court of Justice on Kosovo's declaration of independence in2010.  Do you recognize its ruling as legitimate?

Quote
Swamp land it was, and the deaths of many a serf built that beautiful city. The LAND is what we were talking about, and that you know also.  :)

No, we're talking about men, people, not land. Or if you want, we're talking about swamp land with buried there tens of thousands of Russian serfs.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2014, 04:32:33 AM
Should Russia hand back the Kuban region that was exchanged for Krym?
If prople vote for it but they won't 100%
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2014, 04:33:52 AM

As protests in Europe go 3,500 is a tiny number.  Insignifigant would be an understatement. 

Doll you should read the latest poll results regarding German public opinion about Russia.  Overall most Germans approve of the way that Angela Merkel has handled the crisis and they distrust Russia.
Most of Germans? Prove it
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 15, 2014, 04:43:59 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/ruble-hits-low-despite-interventions-111703875.html

Talk about pouring money down the drain!   :ROFL:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2014, 05:05:15 AM
Called my kids in Russia- they say things are not that bad
Real estate market is crazy- people are buying more than before
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 15, 2014, 05:20:41 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/ruble-hits-low-despite-interventions-111703875.html

Talk about pouring money down the drain!   :ROFL:

If the central bank would have saved their money the ruble very well would have been at 62 /$ now. 70 by New Years is looking like a 'sure thing'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 15, 2014, 05:22:13 AM
Called my kids in Russia- they say things are not that bad
Real estate market is crazy- people are buying more than before


Sure it's no big deal what's happening as long as mommy keeps bailing the out with extra cash.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 15, 2014, 05:22:39 AM

Real estate market is crazy- people are buying more than before

People in a rush to spend their Roubles before the currency becomes even more worthless...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 15, 2014, 05:27:51 AM
They're $pending a bunch on fancy cars to save something tangible.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11292912/How-much-worse-can-it-get-for-the-Russian-bear.html

I will highlight a quote from this article:

"Sales of Porsche and Lexus cars rose by 55% and 63% respectively, as the elites made bets on the automobiles as a way to maintain their wealth. "
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 15, 2014, 05:37:28 AM
Since the ruble was propped up by the bank and still managed to break thru the 59/$ mark yesterday, just wait for the free fall that ensues when it breaks the psychologically important level of 60/$.
 Do Sividaniya Ruble! :D :D :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 15, 2014, 06:06:03 AM

Sure it's no big deal what's happening as long as mommy keeps bailing the out with extra cash.
no , they are on their own
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 15, 2014, 06:12:06 AM
.
Yes, things are getting harder, but as for my concern- I can help him from here.


 Yeah they're on their own as long as mommy keeps sending dollars to prop them up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 15, 2014, 06:44:47 AM
60.46 rubles to the dollar! 75.13 to the Euro!  :D :D

http://zenrus.ru/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2014, 08:18:20 AM
Most of Germans? Prove it

Some 61% of respondents have a positive attitude towards the tightening of policies on Moscow, according to a poll conducted by German research center Infratest dimap, which was commissioned by German television’s ARD channel as part of its Deutschlandtrend project.

However, the majority of respondents are skeptical that Western sanctions will affect Russia's actions, with 66% having this opinion.   However, a total of 54% consider the policy to be correct.

http://www.unian.info/world/1018124-poll-germans-support-sanctions-against-russia-but-do-not-see-ukraine-in-nato.html (http://www.unian.info/world/1018124-poll-germans-support-sanctions-against-russia-but-do-not-see-ukraine-in-nato.html)


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2014, 08:35:35 AM
Called my kids in Russia- they say things are not that bad
Real estate market is crazy- people are buying more than before


That makes sense.  When currency loses its value, many assume real estate will retain its value.  In the West, such people usually buy gold.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 15, 2014, 01:04:09 PM
Belvis, I find it interesting that you would attach Kaliningrad (Konigsberg) in relation to a vote of the people. Are you of the opinion that the Germanic people there were delighted to be captured and watch their homes confiscated? Was there a referendum then?

Perhaps history is accurate in that those who were not able to flee were eventually moved out by force. History reveals that Kaliningrad was about LAND (and sea access), not about PEOPLE.


Quote
If you raised the Chechen situation as an argument you must approve the war in Chechnya as the legitimate way to settle similar disputes. Chechya is the case we have to avoid, not to reproduce.

You are trying to wiggle out of this one, my friend.  :)   Of course I would not approve of the wars in Chechnya, but Vladimir Putin would not have been interested in my opinion on the issue. He ignored the will of the Chechen people, who in 1991 declared independence from Russia, and instead led the Second Chechen war to prevent Chechens from obtaining independence.

Odd that you'd raise the International Court ruling on Kosovo. Their independence is something to which Russia has displayed strong opposition. Again, a case of Russia choosing which referendums to recognize, and which to conveniently ignore.

Russia has consistently opposed that International Court opinion, well right up to the moment it illegally seized Crimea. Then, Russia suddenly decided to reference Kosovo as justification for taking Crimea. How convenient.

For the record, I opposed NATO/US actions in Serbia. The West was on the wrong side of that conflict. NATO supported the Islamic KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army). In my estimation it stained the record of US President Clinton.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 15, 2014, 01:41:07 PM
Mendeleyev:
'...Again, a case of Russia choosing which referendums to recognize, and which to conveniently ignore...'

So true! I think most of the world sees it this way. How many Russians are able to see it that way? 2%?Probably most Russians who are living outside of Russia... away from the Kremlin's televised distortions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 15, 2014, 01:56:53 PM
Jone, you impressed me as an intelligent man. So why you can not see the fakes?  :)
You have demonstarted   an example of west propaganda zombification when writing about  violating the airspace of another country.
OK, I have to help victims of info wars :D

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/14/world/europe/sweden-russia-planes-near-collision/

Thank you for the compliment.  So let me tell you what an intelligent man thinks:  Russia has satellites.  The only purpose for putting up intelligence gathering jets that threaten the sovereignty of another nation and then not respond when queried is to act belligerent.    Such aggressive actions are not that of a friend.  They are that of an enemy.  And if Russia wants to make enemies of all of the nations that surround it except those that it can belligerently beat into submission, it will suffer more and more consequences faster than you can say 'free fall' for your ruble.

Belvis, the number of paid trolls on the Kremlin payroll is impressive.  Were the US to begin belligerent flights towards the Russian mainland I would be willing to sound off against my country.  But then our nation boasts the most powerful army and navy in the world, so we don't have to do so.  Moreover, we have intelligence gathering satellites that outstrip our air assets.  Simply put, we don't need to be aggressive.  Your response sounds more and more like the paid trolls I am constantly reading in the comment sections of various news outlets.

My desire is to see Russia revert to a friendly status.  But it cannot.  It has traveled down pathways that lead to its own demise.  It now looks like only a change of leadership can alter the current course.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 15, 2014, 02:01:50 PM
Belvis, I find it interesting that you would attach Kaliningrad (Konigsberg) in relation to a vote of the people. Are you of the opinion that the Germanic people there were delighted to be captured and watch their homes confiscated? Was there a referendum then?

Perhaps history is accurate in that those who were not able to flee were eventually moved out by force. History reveals that Kaliningrad was about LAND (and sea access), not about PEOPLE.


You are trying to wiggle out of this one, my friend.  :)   Of course I would not approve of the wars in Chechnya, but Vladimir Putin would not have been interested in my opinion on the issue. He ignored the will of the Chechen people, who in 1991 declared independence from Russia, and instead led the Second Chechen war to prevent Chechens from obtaining independence.

Odd that you'd raise the International Court ruling on Kosovo. Their independence is something to which Russia has displayed strong opposition. Again, a case of Russia choosing which referendums to recognize, and which to conveniently ignore.

Russia has consistently opposed that International Court opinion, well right up to the moment it illegally seized Crimea. Then, Russia suddenly decided to reference Kosovo as justification for taking Crimea. How convenient.

For the record, I opposed NATO/US actions in Serbia. The West was on the wrong side of that conflict. NATO supported the Islamic KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army). In my estimation it stained the record of US President Clinton.

Mendy,

Upon obtaining the spoils of WWII one of the first things that the Soviets did was displaced the natives in Konigsberg with transplants from the Rodina.  The Russians are now beginning the same processes in Krim.     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 15, 2014, 02:24:26 PM
It can be argued that the US or NATO has made stupid mistakes in the past. That's true. Two wrongs do not make a 'right'. Also, the goal of the US or NATO was NEVER to annex sections of the Balkans or to impose an American culture on the Balkans. NATO and the US recognize the value of freedom and democracy in all countries. That's an ideal that is recognized in the EU, and in most democracies. There's a huge ideological difference found in the Kremlin where the idea of Russia expanding into 'New Russia' involves the expansion of a dictatorship. It's a dictatorship that wants to control and suppress the freedom of local citizens. It's a dictatorship that wishes to promote a sense of ethnic Russian superiority and repress alternative cultures and religions. NATO never had that kind of strategy in the Balkans. So again, we need to discuss democracy versus dictatorship. When Russia sends it's warplanes close to the borders of other countries, it's just another example of 'bullying', a word not found in the Russian language. Acting in a threatening way, pushes countries away from Russia. Putin is ruining Russia by doing this.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 15, 2014, 05:51:35 PM
Most of Germans? Prove it


excerpt
(Reuters) - The number of Germans supporting European Union economic sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine crisis has risen in the last month and a large majority supports Chancellor Angela Merkel's toughening stance, a poll on Friday found.
 
The Politbarometer poll for ZDF television found 58 percent back the EU sanctions even if they damage the German economy, up from 52 percent a month ago.

The poll also found that 76 percent backed the sharper tone of Merkel's recent criticisms of President Vladimir Putin's policies.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/28/us-ukraine-crisis-germany-sanctions-idUSKCN0JC18B20141128
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 15, 2014, 06:02:27 PM
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-301-ukrainian-military-reports-numerous-attacks/#5665
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 15, 2014, 07:22:20 PM
Central Bank of Russia jacked interest rates up from 10.5% to 17%.

If this is not a sign of panic by the regime then I don't know what is...

At this new interest rate, it'll probably be cheaper to borrow from a loan shark than from a legitimate Russian bank!

 :ROFL:

Now we wait for the Putin apologists to try to spin this massive rates hike as a positive for the Russian economy...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 15, 2014, 07:52:31 PM
We all know what happens to property prices when interest rates get hiked-up.

Looks like all those Russians who rushed to buy property in Russia,according to Doll, just caught a cold.....and that's without the higher repayments they'll now be paying,assuming they're not all Oligarch cash buyers.

I wonder if GQ has bought that property in Crimea yet ?

It's comical watching some of the pro-Russian  financial "experts" on these forums trip themselves up with their perceived financial acumen.

You can BS some of the people some of the time,but you can't BS all of the people all of the time.

 ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 15, 2014, 08:37:57 PM
Jone, you impressed me as an intelligent man. So why you can not see the fakes?  :)
You have demonstarted   an example of west propaganda zombification when writing about  violating the airspace of another country.
OK, I have to help victims of info wars :D

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/14/world/europe/sweden-russia-planes-near-collision/

(http://www.americancinemathequecalendar.com/sites/default/files/stills_events_390_240/drstrangelove_0_1.jpeg?1411427859)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 15, 2014, 08:40:57 PM
I would agree about the same amount of justification if Piter was still populated by Swedes.

BTW, Piter was not existing during Swedish times  :D

Hand back? You have huge gaps in knowledge of Chinese  history and geography as well as Siberian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U38AfcnDBU
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 15, 2014, 11:36:00 PM
With the Ruble now at 64 and climbing, and the interest rates bat 17%...

 What's your best guess as to when/where the Ruble will bottom out?


  150/1 by early summer?

  250/1 by fall?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 15, 2014, 11:41:53 PM
With the Ruble now at 64 and climbing, and the interest rates bat 17%...

 What's your best guess as to when/where the Ruble will bottom out?


  150/1 by early summer?

  250/1 by fall?


80 something.  Putin is going to get out of Ukraine before it gets worse than that.  He is a slimeball but he's no dummy. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 16, 2014, 12:01:48 AM
to date though when he should be taking heed and changing course he just diggs down even deeper , tightens the crash helmut and pushes onwards

he is either totally reckless and consumed by his own belief or he still has some planed tactic he hasnt used yet  to walk away without a huge loss

personally i think he is hoping the EU/US/NATO will blink first , and let him consolidate his gains if he can , & that is his only strategy

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 16, 2014, 12:21:00 AM
Somethings up and I expect that the USA is finally giving Ukraine some weapons.  Two sources I found seem to confirm this:

http://investmentwatchblog.com/blogger-colonel-cassad-the-reason-for-shutting-down-ukrainian-airspace-is-to-accept-military-cargo-from-usa-new-unofficial-military-advisersassistants-should-be-expected-to-show-up-as-well/

and this guy
Dimitry Bespalov

December 13 at 9:33am ·
.
Наткнулся на такой комментарий, не знаю правда ли.

Пришло сообщение из Харькова. Мои источники говорят, что аэропорт готовят к приему грузовых самолетов из США, которые везут подарки на новый год для агрессора и террористов на Донбассе. А знаете какие подарки? Правильно, — летальное оружие… Тизерная сеть GlobalTeaser Говорят, что готовят 3 аэропорта для приема: Запорожье, Харьков, Днепропетровск. Именно поэтому их и закрыли. Россия попытается всячески помешать доставить груз. В том числе может применить и свои »Буки». Для того, чтобы не пострадали мирные и для того, чтобы сбить агрессора с толку, было принято решение закрыть сразу 3 аэропорта. Пускай Путин думку гадает куда именно прибудет груз. А если хочет, пускай сбивает все, что летает в воздухе над Донбассом). Тогда и летального оружия не надо.. Сами россияне параноика уберут. Поводов для радости у террористов и агрессора должно быть очень много. Первый — Порошенко дал Путину 10 дней на размышление, иначе военное положение. Второе — Конгресс США одобрил акт военной поддержки Украины. И наконец третье — Аэропорты Харькова, Днепропетровска и Запорожье закрыли для мирной авиации. В СНБО не комментируют ситуацию. Ликуйте враги Украины! Подарки к Новому Году от союзников Украины уже на подходе. Мы уничтожали Вас ржавыми танками, уничтожали довольно таки успешно. Не сомневайтесь! С подарочками наших союзников вы будете умирать быстрее, возможно не мучаясь в агонии смерти…



Came across this comment, I do not know whether it was true.

Message from Kharkov. My sources say that the airport is prepared to receive cargo planes from the United States who bring gifts for the new year for the aggressor and terrorists in the Donbass region. Do you know what kind of gifts? Correctly, is a lethal weapon ... Teaser GlobalTeaser network say they are preparing to receive airport 3: Kiev, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk. That is why they have closed. Russia will try to prevent to deliver the goods. Including may apply and their "Beeches". In order to not hurt the peace and in order to bring down the aggressor be confusing, it was decided to close the airport 3 right away. Let Putin por. s. Karolak and wondering where it will load. And if you want, let them is anything that flies in the air over Donbass). Then lethal weapons do not.. The Russians are paranoid to be removed. Reasons for the joy of the terrorists and the aggressor should be very much. The first 10 days, Putin gave Poroshenko on meditation, or martial law. The second United States Congress approved the Act of Ukrainian military support. And finally the third Airports Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhia was closed to civilian aircraft. The NATIONAL SECURITY and DEFENSE COUNCIL does not comment on the situation. Ukraine's enemies rejoice! Gifts for the new year from allies of Ukraine are on the way. We destroyed you rusty tanks, destroyed quite successfully. Do not hesitate! With podaročkami our allies you will die faster, perhaps not suffering the agony of death ...

Translated by Bing


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 12:33:52 AM

80 something.  Putin is going to get out of Ukraine before it gets worse than that.  He is a slimeball but he's no dummy.

Putin is a shortarsed moron-dumb he is-- dumb as dog shit!
A stunted dwarf mentally-- he has made a massive misclaculation and Russia and Russians will pay for his mistakes. It needs to be noted--all his Kremlin cronies are of the same ilk.
His Russian military are pouring aid in to their thugs in Ukraine to try and save the situation--but are potentially looking at a defeat in eastern Ukraine-- and you can bet money that if Ukainians achieve that then the Crimea will be on the agenda-so no easy way for the puny one !!

to date though when he should be taking heed and changing course he just diggs down even deeper , tightens the crash helmut and pushes onwards

he is either totally reckless and consumed by his own belief or he still has some planed tactic he hasnt used yet  to walk away without a huge loss

personally i think he is hoping the EU/US/NATO will blink first , and let him consolidate his gains if he can , & that is his only strategy

SX

I think you are correct here SX-- but I also think that crediting him with to  much thinking power is wrong too. He has made a massive miscalculation  and will attempt to hang on to what he has.
Back in September  quite often it was discussed letting the east go in the hope of peace and appeasing Putin.By November--many had moved from that position( another  illustration of how quickly things can change) . It also reflects that Ukrainians had become more confident they could hold the Russian troops to the east .
In the last few days Right Sector have said they have had enough of the Russian duplicity  and lies( constantly not complying with truce terms) and will start upping the ante in a few areas. Watch this closely-- this could be the cornerstone of the outcome -either way.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 16, 2014, 12:55:52 AM
Jay your comments about Putin are from the outside looking in.  Just after the annexation of Crimea Putin looked like a genius to the average Russian and they were ecstatic.  Yes he made some miscalculations about E. Ukraine but his goal was not just military conquest but to also weaken and possibly collapse Ukraine's economy.

To the average zombie Russian he still seems okay and it's the USA who is evil and causing all the harm to his economy, not him.  Plus he can claim to have made historic deals with China and now India.

Hopefully the real damage to his economy and the likelyhood that now the USA and other countries are going to give Ukraine weapons is sinking in and he will change course for the betterment of Ukraine.  This is what I believe is going to happen and there seems to be a softening of the Russian position so it is certainly likely.  It would actually probably be better if he continues to threaten and provoke the West because the sooner this fight is on the sooner it will be over and he will be gone.  Time will tell if he continues to be contolled by his ego.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2014, 01:03:42 AM
Central Bank of Russia jacked interest rates up from 10.5% to 17%.

If this is not a sign of panic by the regime then I don't know what is...

At this new interest rate, it'll probably be cheaper to borrow from a loan shark than from a legitimate Russian bank!

 :ROFL:

Now we wait for the Putin apologists to try to spin this massive rates hike as a positive for the Russian economy...
Do you know who owns this bank?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 01:19:56 AM
deo has visited many web users. YouTube Russian President talks about the ruble The network is a popular video presentation Vladimir Putin, where the Russian president explains how the fall of the ruble had a positive impact on the Russian budget. Earlier, Putin said that Ukraine Donbass and need each other economically and politically .  Remarks policy accompanied nischivnym Laugh track.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/tsikavinki/internet-pidrvalo-video-iz-putinim-ta-znuschalnim-zakadrovim-smihom-397015.html

Інтернет підірвало відео із Путіним та знущальним закадровим сміхом Інтернет, 12 грудня, 07:01 відеоДрукувати Відео уже переглянуло чимало користувачів Мережі. YouTube Російський президент розповідає про рубль У Мережі популярним стає відео виступу Володимира Путіна, де російський президент пояснює, як падіння рубля позитивно вплинуло на російський бюджет. Нагадаємо, що раніше Путін заявив, що Донбас і Україна потрібні один одному економічно та політично.  Виступ політика супроводжується ніщівним закадровим сміхом. За тиждень кількість переглядів досягла понад 166 тисяч. Читайте також: Падіння цін на нафту та тиск на економіку Росії можуть повалити Путіна - WSJ Нагадаємо, що трек "Путін х*йло" став хітом інтернету: найкрутіші відео та коуби.  Читайте також:
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/tsikavinki/internet-pidrvalo-video-iz-putinim-ta-znuschalnim-zakadrovim-smihom-397015.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngbzj1INOZA#t=10
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 02:41:53 AM
AC--I agree with the tenor of your comments.What I do not want to see Ukraine do is settle for less than can be achieved--ie- make no compromises and push to get all possible.
The pressure from Ukraines friends will be to make compromises-my view is the west should support Ukraine to the hilt-- it is in all the worlds interests to force Russia to a subdued position for the future.
It should not be forgotten the deaths and injuries,the hardships created by Putin and Russia  on Ukrainians -- and the lesson of GeoBush Sen not finishing the job he started ought never be repeated-- when you have the recalcerint on the run--finish the job while the opportunity is there.
Lets face it--a Ukrainian redirection will prove relatively easy compared to Russia-- so a lot of incentive will need to be there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 03:51:25 AM
Somethings up and I expect that the USA is finally giving Ukraine some weapons.  Two sources I found seem to confirm this:

December 13 at 9:33am ·

Came across this comment, I do not know whether it was true.

Message from Kharkov. My sources say that the airport is prepared to receive cargo planes from the United States who bring gifts for the new year for the aggressor and terrorists in the Donbass region. Do you know what kind of gifts? Correctly, is a lethal weapon ... Teaser GlobalTeaser network say they are preparing to receive airport 3: Kiev, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk. That is why they have closed. Russia will try to prevent to deliver the goods. Including may apply and their "Beeches". In order to not hurt the peace and in order to bring down the aggressor be confusing, it was decided to close the airport 3 right away. Let Putin por. s. Karolak and wondering where it will load. And if you want, let them is anything that flies in the air over Donbass). Then lethal weapons do not.. The Russians are paranoid to be removed. Reasons for the joy of the terrorists and the aggressor should be very much. The first 10 days, Putin gave Poroshenko on meditation, or martial law. The second United States Congress approved the Act of Ukrainian military support. And finally the third Airports Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhia was closed to civilian aircraft. The NATIONAL SECURITY and DEFENSE COUNCIL does not comment on the situation. Ukraine's enemies rejoice! Gifts for the new year from allies of Ukraine are on the way. We destroyed you rusty tanks, destroyed quite successfully. Do not hesitate! With podaročkami our allies you will die faster, perhaps not suffering the agony of death ...


AC --it is Kremlin BS -- just more of the crap fed to a captive audience that the villains in Ukraine is the US of A !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 16, 2014, 05:14:57 AM
Despite the interest rate hike the Russian Rouble continued to plummet to 77.05 to the USD this morning...source Sky News...who claim people are now panicking in Russia.

Meanwhile an exiled Brit in Estonia is still desperately trying to put a positive spin on all this for the Russian economy on another forum...he also recently claimed it's the USA economy that's in trouble..not Russia's.

Mind you the same person claims Anastasia and HRB/RLM have upstanding business ethics and are good places to find a wife in his fantasy world. :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 16, 2014, 05:34:49 AM
Despite the interest rate hike the Russian Rouble continued to plummet to 77.05 to the USD this morning...source Sky News...who claim people are now panicking in Russia.


Dammit! I was wrong! I thought that they could wait for Christmas but they beat all records of a free fall!

 77 now and there's still 9 days to go.

 Shall we go for 100 by New Years? :D

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 16, 2014, 05:35:45 AM
When the floodgate opens...

Seriously I have never seen any currency tank so much within the span of a single day, it's almost not funny anymore.
Maybe Doll will report back and reassure us there is nothing to worry about!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 16, 2014, 05:45:29 AM
I suspect that she won't say much about this. She said it'd never hit 70 IIRC.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 16, 2014, 06:01:33 AM
Russia has so far lost 80 billion of it's 418 billion reserves in a failed attempt to stop the Rouble falling...source Sky News...and the thought of the IMF giving a  bailout was considered VERY unlikely because of Russia's actions in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

You reap what you sow Putler.

Time for another Putin speech to the Russian zombie masses methinks. ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 16, 2014, 06:09:17 AM
How will the state media spin this currency fiasco this time...

Cancel the business segment of the evening news broadcast?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 16, 2014, 07:00:46 AM
Ruble Sinks to 80 a Dollar Defying Surprise Russia Rate Increase


The ruble sank as much as 19 percent to 80.10, before trading at 78 at 3:14 p.m. in Moscow. That was the biggest drop since 1998,

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-16/ruble-snaps-six-day-loss-on-surprise-rate-increase-to-17-percent.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 16, 2014, 08:30:46 AM
Here's an interesting perspective of an American political analyst visit to Moscow. Basically, he met with the likes of Doll and Beavis.


Quote

I thought the economic problems of Russia would be foremost on people's minds. The plunge of the ruble, the decline in oil prices, a general slowdown in the economy and the effect of Western sanctions all appear in the West to be hammering the Russian economy. Yet this was not the conversation I was having. The decline in the ruble has affected foreign travel plans, but the public has only recently begun feeling the real impact of these factors, particularly through inflation.


But there was another reason given for the relative calm over the financial situation, and it came not only from government officials but also from private individuals and should be considered very seriously. The Russians pointed out that economic shambles was the norm for Russia, and prosperity the exception. There is always the expectation that prosperity will end and the normal constrictions of Russian poverty return.


The Russians suffered terribly during the 1990s under Boris Yeltsin but also under previous governments stretching back to the czars. In spite of this, several pointed out, they had won the wars they needed to win and had managed to live lives worth living. The golden age of the previous 10 years was coming to an end. That was to be expected, and it would be endured. The government officials meant this as a warning, and I do not think it was a bluff. The pivot of the conversation was about sanctions, and the intent was to show that they would not cause Russia to change its policy toward Ukraine.


Russians' strength is that they can endure things that would break other nations. It was also pointed out that they tend to support the government regardless of competence when Russia feels threatened. Therefore, the Russians argued, no one should expect that sanctions, no matter how harsh, would cause Moscow to capitulate. Instead the Russians would respond with their own sanctions, which were not specified but which I assume would mean seizing the assets of Western companies in Russia and curtailing agricultural imports from Europe. There was no talk of cutting off natural gas supplies to Europe.


If this is so, then the Americans and Europeans are deluding themselves on the effects of sanctions. In general, I personally have little confidence in the use of sanctions. That being said, the Russians gave me another prism to look through. Sanctions reflect European and American thresholds of pain. They are designed to cause pain that the West could not withstand. Applied to others, the effects may vary.




It is interesting that our discussions parallels what he found in Moscow, namely that the Russians have a hard time understanding what we are saying.


Quote
The United States has been conditioned to be cautious of any rising hegemon. In this case the fear of a resurgent Russia is a recollection of the Cold War, but not an unreasonable one. As some pointed out to me, economic weakness has rarely meant military weakness or political disunity. I agreed with them on this and pointed out that this is precisely why the United States has a legitimate fear of Russia in Ukraine. If Russia manages to reassert its power in Ukraine, then what will come next? Russia has military and political power that could begin to impinge on Europe. Therefore, it is not irrational for the United States, and at least some European countries, to want to assert their power in Ukraine.
 
When I laid out this argument to a very senior official from the Russian Foreign Ministry, he basically said he had no idea what I was trying to say. While I think he fully understood the geopolitical imperatives guiding Russia in Ukraine, to him the centurylong imperatives guiding the United States are far too vast to apply to the Ukrainian issue. It is not a question of him only seeing his side of the issue. Rather, it is that for Russia, Ukraine is an immediate issue, and the picture I draw of American strategy is so abstract that it doesn't seem to connect with the immediate reality. There is an automatic American response to what it sees as Russian assertiveness; however, the Russians feel they have been far from offensive and have been on the defense. For the official, American fears of Russian hegemony were simply too far-fetched to contemplate.
Interesting read.


http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/viewing-russia-inside#axzz3M4abEfIb

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 16, 2014, 09:47:00 AM
The prospects of martyrdom have always been a part of the Russian psyche.    The problem, of course, is when the rest of the world experiences prosperity and it is readily seen by the suffering Russian people.  It would seem to me that the communication restrictions put on the Russian people by their own government and elimination of all outside influences through totalitarian government are meant to combat just that.

In essence, the standard of living will be reduced (is reduced) for the Russians while the rest of the world flourishes.  Unfortunately, we have already seen the effects of that:  Russia will lag behind the rest of the world in technology and infrastructure.  I know, we can call these formative years a 'five year plan'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on December 16, 2014, 10:01:29 AM
to date though when he should be taking heed and changing course he just diggs down even deeper , tightens the crash helmut and pushes onwards

he is either totally reckless and consumed by his own belief or he still has some planed tactic he hasnt used yet  to walk away without a huge loss

personally i think he is hoping the EU/US/NATO will blink first , and let him consolidate his gains if he can , & that is his only strategy

SX

There is also another thought that not many on these boards seem to recognize, know or give any credence and that is, possibly Putin can't control the events and actions of the Russian military in Ukraine. Perhaps all is not as it seems?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 16, 2014, 10:19:47 AM
Securities of Sberbank, VTB, oil and gas companies in Russia were affected by downward market trend.

The MICEX index fell by 7.9%, to 1324.92 points, while the RTS declined by 11.2% to 650.03 points.

Sberbank shares were down, with depositary receipts declining by 17.58%, and ordinary shares falling in value by 13.39%. VTB’s GDRs dropped in price by 5.82%, and its ordinary shares by 2.22%.

Shares of Russian oil and gas companies are also dropping. Gazprom’s GDRs fell by 18.51%, and its shares by 10.02%; Rosneft’s GDRs lost 11.87% of their value, and ordinary shares fell by 8.19%.

RusHydro’s depositary receipts lost 9.80% of their value, while the company's shares were 8.01% down.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/economic...ter-rubles-fall.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 16, 2014, 11:05:28 AM
Sorry, Putin. Russia’s economy is doomed

A funny thing happened on the way to Vladimir Putin running strategic laps around the West. Russia's economy imploded.

The latest news is that Russia's central bank raised interest rates from 10.5 to 17 percent at an emergency 1 a.m. meeting in an attempt to stop the ruble, which is down 50 percent on the year against the dollar, from falling any further. It's a desperate move to save Russia's currency that comes at the cost of sacrificing Russia's economy.

But even that wasn't enough. After a brief rally, the ruble resumed its cliff-diving ways on Tuesday, falling another 14 percent to a low of 80 rubles per dollar. It was 60 rubles per dollar just the day before. The problem is simple. Oil is still falling, and ordinary Russians don't want to hold their money in rubles even if they get paid 17 percent interest to do so. In other words, there's a well-justified panic. So now Russia is left with the double whammy of a collapsing currency and exorbitant interest rates. Checkmate.

It's a classic kind of emerging markets crisis. It's only a small simplification, you see, to say that Russia doesn't so much have an economy as it has an oil exporting business that subsidizes everything else. That's why the combination of more supply from the United States, and less demand from Europe, China, and Japan has hit them particularly hard. Cheaper oil means Russian companies have fewer dollars to turn into rubles, which is just another way of saying that there's less demand for rubles—so its price is falling. It hasn't helped, of course, that sanctions over Russia's incursion into Ukraine have already left Russia short on dollars.

Add it all up, and the ruble has fallen something like 22 percent against the dollar the past month, with 11 percent of that coming on Monday alone. As you can see below, the Russian ruble has fallen even further than the Ukrainian hryvnia or Brent oil has this year. The only asset, and I use that word lightly, that's done worse than the ruble's 50 percent fall is Bitcoin, which is a fake currency that techno-utopians insist is the future we don't know we want.

And this is only going to get worse. Russia, you see, is stuck in an economic catch-22. Its economy needs lower interest rates to push up growth, but its companies need higher interest rates to push up the ruble and make all the dollars they borrowed not worth so much. So, to use a technical term, they're screwed no matter what they do. If they had kept interest rates low, then the ruble would have continued to disintegrate, inflation would have spiked, and big corporations would have defaulted—but at least growth wouldn't have fallen quite so much.

Instead, Russia has opted for the financial shock-and-awe of raising rates from 10.5 to 17 percent in one fell swoop. Rates that high will send Russia's moribund economy into a deep recession—its central bank already estimates its economy will contract 4.5 to 4.7 percent if oil stays at $60-a-barrel—but they haven't been enough to stop the ruble's free fall. Russia might have to resort to capital controls to prop up the value of the ruble now, and might even have to ask the IMF for a bailout, too.

Putin's Russia, like the USSR before it, is only as strong as the price of oil. In the 1970s, we made the mistake of thinking that the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan meant we were losing the Cold War, when the reality was that they had stumbled into their own Vietnam and could only afford to feed their people as long as oil stayed sky-high. The USSR's economic mirage, though, became apparent to everybody—none less than their own people, who had to scrounge in empty supermarkets—after oil prices bottomed out in the 1980s. That history is repeating itself now, just without the Marxism-Leninism. Putin could afford to invade Georgia and Ukraine when oil prices were comfortably in the triple digits, but not when they're half that. Russia can't afford anything then.

Putin might be playing chess while we play checkers, but only if we lend him the money for the set.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/15/russias-economy-is-doomed-its-that-simple/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 16, 2014, 11:11:56 AM
Conditional Currency Makes Comeback as Retailers Lose Trust in Russian Ruble
By Anna Dolgov
Dec. 15 2014 15:00

Along with the flashy cars of the new rich and the garbage bin food scavenging of the new poor, a distinctive sign of Russia in the 1990s were store price tags in a non-official currency — “u.e.”

Amid the decade's economic upheavals, when the ruble could bleed chunks of value overnight, the u.e. — which stands for the Russian words “uslovnaya yedinitsa,” or “conditional unit” and is pronounced “oo-yeh” — was a response by storekeepers to soaring inflation and a way to avoid having to replace price tags on a daily basis. The u.e.-to-ruble exchange rate was pegged to the U.S. dollar.

As the economy stabilized, the conditional currency mostly disappeared, replaced by the familiar ruble, and the u.e. was relegated to a memory of a bygone turbulent era. Aside from a brief comeback in the 2008-09 economic crisis, the conditional unit disappeared from view.

Until now.

With the ruble down almost 50 percent against the dollar so far this year — and over 14 percent just in the past three trading days — the u.e was back in circulation this week, certainly as a rumor and possibly as tender.

Moscow radio station Govorit Moskva on Sunday reported spotting prices at a hardware store in the capital's suburb of Khimki listed in the infamous conditional units. The radio station also posted photographs of the price tags on its website.

The report prompted a flurry of speculation and reprints on Russian social media and news websites.

The government's official newspaper Rossiiskaya Gazeta published an online report late Sunday night suggesting that the rumors were false — but stopping just short of saying so outright.

“Rumors about a switch to conditional units have indeed appeared,” the head of the online trade department at Russia's Association of Electronic Commerce, Ivan Kurguzov, was quoted as saying. “A range of Internet stores are thinking about switching to u.e. or intend to change their price tags several times a day.”

Rossiiskaya Gazeta said it had checked the websites of “popular Internet shops,” and found no trace of u.e.-denominated prices.

The problem was that in some cases there were no prices in rubles, either.

The website of a hardware store in Khimki, ArtReality.ru, when checked by The Moscow Times early Monday, offered dashes instead of prices for items added to an online shopping cart, and a note asking customers to leave their phone number so that a “manager” could contact them to “agree on the price.”

In a twist for the Russian government, the 1990s-reminiscent reports of the u.e.'s reemergence appeared as Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev published an op-ed article in the Nezavisimaya Gazeta newspaper on Monday predicting a replay of the turbulent 1990s — for Ukraine.

The economic troubles afflicting Ukraine as government forces and pro-Moscow separatists fight in the country's east mean that “apparently, our neighbors will have to live through a second '90s,” Medvedev said in the article.

Cheerless as Ukraine's economic situation might be, prospects are also dim for Russia. A combination of Western sanctions over the Ukraine crisis, capital flight and a steep drop in the price of oil, Russia's key export, have not only almost halved the value of the ruble currency, but have flattened already faltering economic growth and sharply raised inflation.

But store owners considering listing prices in u.e. are not allowed to ditch the ruble entirely.

“Under the law, the customer must be informed about prices in rubles,” Rossiiskaya Gazeta quoted Dmitry Yanin, the head of an association of consumers' groups, as saying. “That is, the stamped price tag must be in rubles. But nobody prohibits listing next to it the price in dollars or euros. Or even in [Chinese] yuan! This would not be considered a violation of the law.”

But Moscow's government upped the ante on Monday, with City Hall's trade and services chief Alexei Nemeryuk saying that prices must be displayed “exclusively only in rubles,” and that price tags in u.e. would be removed, news agency RIA Novosti reported.

By the early 2000s, when the u.e. survived only in some business contracts and posh car dealerships, the exchange rate for the units stopped matching that of the dollar, and began to correspond to that of the euro. That meant higher prices, as the euro was gaining in value.

Radio station Govorit Moskva did not specify whether the u.e. at the Khimki store was pegged to the dollar or the euro.

But the explanation for the switch to oo-yehs was familiar from the 1990s: Listing prices in rubles would mean changing price tags several times per week to minimize losses from the depreciating ruble, store employees said, according to the report.http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/conditional-currency-makes-comeback-as-retailers-lose-trust-in-russia-s-ruble/513307.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 16, 2014, 11:54:37 AM
There is also another thought that not many on these boards seem to recognize, know or give any credence and that is, possibly Putin can't control the events and actions of the Russian military in Ukraine. Perhaps all is not as it seems?

I thought that he already claimed that he could not control the actions of the separatists.  As far as the actions of the Russian military itself I don't believe it.  As far as the action of some of the separatists it may be possible in the short term that they get out of control but in the long term he has his GRU over there reeling them in or eliminating them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on December 16, 2014, 12:21:47 PM
I thought that he already claimed that he could not control the actions of the separatists.  As far as the actions of the Russian military itself I don't believe it.  As far as the action of some of the separatists it may be possible in the short term that they get out of control but in the long term he has his GRU over there reeling them in or eliminating them.

He's made those claims repeatedly. Suppose he was only lying about how or why he can't control them. It's quite possible Putin can't control the monster he unleashed. He wants the West to think he's in control. Russian forces are in Ukraine but, it may not be Putin keeping them there. Putin likely isn't in control of his own Army. There are a number of factions in the Kremlin, all tied to money and power with many assorted interests. The idea that Putin is in control or total control may just be a fallacy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 16, 2014, 12:26:26 PM
Sorry, Putin. Russia’s economy is doomed

A funny thing happened on the way to Vladimir Putin running strategic laps around the West. Russia's economy imploded.

The latest news is that Russia's central bank raised interest rates from 10.5 to 17 percent at an emergency 1 a.m. meeting in an attempt to stop the ruble, which is down 50 percent on the year against the dollar, from falling any further. It's a desperate move to save Russia's currency that comes at the cost of sacrificing Russia's economy.

But even that wasn't enough. After a brief rally, the ruble resumed its cliff-diving ways on Tuesday, falling another 14 percent to a low of 80 rubles per dollar. It was 60 rubles per dollar just the day before. The problem is simple. Oil is still falling, and ordinary Russians don't want to hold their money in rubles even if they get paid 17 percent interest to do so. In other words, there's a well-justified panic. So now Russia is left with the double whammy of a collapsing currency and exorbitant interest rates. Checkmate.

It's a classic kind of emerging markets crisis. It's only a small simplification, you see, to say that Russia doesn't so much have an economy as it has an oil exporting business that subsidizes everything else. That's why the combination of more supply from the United States, and less demand from Europe, China, and Japan has hit them particularly hard. Cheaper oil means Russian companies have fewer dollars to turn into rubles, which is just another way of saying that there's less demand for rubles—so its price is falling. It hasn't helped, of course, that sanctions over Russia's incursion into Ukraine have already left Russia short on dollars.

Add it all up, and the ruble has fallen something like 22 percent against the dollar the past month, with 11 percent of that coming on Monday alone. As you can see below, the Russian ruble has fallen even further than the Ukrainian hryvnia or Brent oil has this year. The only asset, and I use that word lightly, that's done worse than the ruble's 50 percent fall is Bitcoin, which is a fake currency that techno-utopians insist is the future we don't know we want.

And this is only going to get worse. Russia, you see, is stuck in an economic catch-22. Its economy needs lower interest rates to push up growth, but its companies need higher interest rates to push up the ruble and make all the dollars they borrowed not worth so much. So, to use a technical term, they're screwed no matter what they do. If they had kept interest rates low, then the ruble would have continued to disintegrate, inflation would have spiked, and big corporations would have defaulted—but at least growth wouldn't have fallen quite so much.

Instead, Russia has opted for the financial shock-and-awe of raising rates from 10.5 to 17 percent in one fell swoop. Rates that high will send Russia's moribund economy into a deep recession—its central bank already estimates its economy will contract 4.5 to 4.7 percent if oil stays at $60-a-barrel—but they haven't been enough to stop the ruble's free fall. Russia might have to resort to capital controls to prop up the value of the ruble now, and might even have to ask the IMF for a bailout, too.

Putin's Russia, like the USSR before it, is only as strong as the price of oil. In the 1970s, we made the mistake of thinking that the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan meant we were losing the Cold War, when the reality was that they had stumbled into their own Vietnam and could only afford to feed their people as long as oil stayed sky-high. The USSR's economic mirage, though, became apparent to everybody—none less than their own people, who had to scrounge in empty supermarkets—after oil prices bottomed out in the 1980s. That history is repeating itself now, just without the Marxism-Leninism. Putin could afford to invade Georgia and Ukraine when oil prices were comfortably in the triple digits, but not when they're half that. Russia can't afford anything then.

Putin might be playing chess while we play checkers, but only if we lend him the money for the set.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/15/russias-economy-is-doomed-its-that-simple/

I think it is time to call it what it is:  Russia is falling into a depression, not a recession. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 16, 2014, 12:37:46 PM
He's made those claims repeatedly. Suppose he was only lying about how or why he can't control them. It's quite possible Putin can't control the monster he unleashed. He wants the West to think he's in control. Russian forces are in Ukraine but, it may not be Putin keeping them there. Putin likely isn't in control of his own Army. There are a number of factions in the Kremlin, all tied to money and power with many assorted interests. The idea that Putin is in control or total control may just be a fallacy.

Interesting.  I've read that there are some who are more hawkish than Putin is.  How long will Russian soldiers obey the orders to go there, regardless where those orders come from?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 16, 2014, 12:48:26 PM
I think we are days, maybe hours away from Capital Controls.  The Krauts are gonna get skewered.  Bye-bye Deutsche Bank.  Call it what it is "DEFAULT"!

Yummy for guys like me.  Who cares about selling the Ruble short.  Just look for banks that have invested heavily in Russia.  Sell them short instead.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 16, 2014, 12:53:38 PM
I do believe that the Germans are gonna be mad as hell, at Putin, by the new year.  (As if they aren't already!)

And who wins from this whole charade?  The Chinese, of course.  May as well just sell the Northern Resource Area to China now, V.V.  After all, they'll own it in ten years.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 16, 2014, 01:13:48 PM
Russia Is So Screwed


Well, it looks like Russia is in for a long, cold, and economically devastating winter.
With its currency stuck in a disastrous freefall thanks to Western sanctions and plunging oil prices, the country’s central bank announced around 1 a.m. last night that it would jack up its key interest rate from 10.5 percent to 17 percent. This was a desperate decision. The country was already hurtling toward a recession, and the rate hike—the biggest since 1998, when a financial crisis eventually forced it into default on its debt—was sure to make the pain far worse. But the hope was that, with higher interest rates, investors would finally stop pulling their money out of the country—that, as the New York Times's Neil Irwin put it, keeping money at a Russian bank would simply be “too good an offer to refuse.”
 
It wasn’t. Today, the currency plunge has continued, with the ruble at one point falling 35 percent, at 80 to a dollar. It has rallied a bit since then. A dollar is now worth about 70 rubles, which only looks good compared to the absolute crisis earlier in the day.
 
A crashing currency is a problem for a number of reasons. For one, it makes imports more expensive and stokes inflation. This is especially a problem for everyday Russians, since their country depends on imports for an outsized percentage of its food. At the same time, it's becoming harder for Russian businesses and financial institutions that borrowed in dollars to pay off their debts, which are getting ever more expensive, and dangerous, as the ruble slides.
 
But at this point, it’s not clear that Russia has any good options left at its disposal to stop the ruble from tumbling. It could start unloading its own foreign currency reserves to stanch the bleeding, but as Jennifer Rankin of the Guardian argues, those could drain away fast. And such a move wouldn't fix any of the underlying problems that have pushed Russia to the breaking point. The ruble is collapsing, in part, because oil prices are in the pits. Cheap crude is bad for Russia’s economy. It’s terrible for its government, which gets half its tax revenue from oil and gas. And it's terrible for the ruble, specifically, because as the value of a country’s exports plunge, so too does the value of its money. At the same time, Western sanctions have largely cut off Russia’s banks and oil companies from the credit markets by preventing financial institutions from lending to them for more than one month at a time. In other words, Russia’s economy is basically radioactive. Increasing interest rates further won’t cure it and bring the money back.
 
What will? Perhaps nothing. But some, like Bloomberg View’s Leonid Bershidsky, say that it may be time for capital controls, which are basically rules meant to at least keep money from fleeing the country. There’s some precedent for this; Malaysia used them to save its economy from a meltdown during the emerging markets currency crisis of the late 1990s. But currency controls are also tricky, because the second anybody starts seriously talking about them, there’s a risk that investors will start trying to get their money out the door before it slams shut. Plus, the sorts of billionaire oligarchs who dominate Russia don’t like being told where they can and can’t send their money.
Also, they just might not work. “The Russians are more skillful at escaping capital controls than anybody else in the world,” Anders Aslund, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, told me. I asked Aslund what Russia could do at this point to save itself. “The only thing Russia can do is to have the sanctions ended,” which would restore some normalcy to the financial system, he said. “I don’t see any other options.”
 
Of course, that would require giving in to the West’s demands regarding Ukraine, which seems unlikely, to say the least.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/12/16/russian_currency_crisis_putin_has_no_good_solutions.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 16, 2014, 02:17:48 PM
Russia Is So Screwed
Anders Aslund, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, told me. I asked Aslund what Russia could do at this point to save itself.  “The only thing Russia can do is to have the sanctions ended,” which would restore some normalcy to the financial system, he said. “I don’t see any other options.”

Of course, that would require giving in to the West’s demands regarding Ukraine, which seems unlikely, to say the least.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/12/16/russian_currency_crisis_putin_has_no_good_solutions.html

Oww I bet that'll leave a mark! Maybe a bad taste in their mouths for years to come also.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 02:32:27 PM
Looks like we are screwing ourselves in the process...another crazy day in the stock market...the end result... down another 100+ points again today, after being up 250 at one point...Our economy is showing some frailness, although I do think/hope it will recover.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 03:29:04 PM
He's made those claims repeatedly. Suppose he was only lying about how or why he can't control them. It's quite possible Putin can't control the monster he unleashed. He wants the West to think he's in control. Russian forces are in Ukraine but, it may not be Putin keeping them there. Putin likely isn't in control of his own Army. There are a number of factions in the Kremlin, all tied to money and power with many assorted interests. The idea that Putin is in control or total control may just be a fallacy.

It is a real possibility . Are you referring to top of tree -or on the ground?Do you have any more than a suspicion on this?Certainly for some time it has been clear to me that simply removing Putin will not solve Ukraines problems--removing Russia is THE problem.
I read(did I post link??) yesterday that the Russian military special forces have been systematically "removing" the hired thugs.in the east.Part of that has been attributed to covering tracks and distancing the Kremlin from events in Ukraine-- and that could have quite a few reasons-I posted earlier in this thread about some prospective future events.
The hired thugs have got used to being all powerful as they exploit the area of occupation-- and that does not sit well with bigger picture plans of the Kremlin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 16, 2014, 04:03:13 PM
Looks like we are screwing ourselves in the process...another crazy day in the stock market...the end result... down another 100+ points again today, after being up 250 at one point...Our economy is showing some frailness, although I do think/hope it will recover.


Fathertime!

How is this relevant to the topic of this thread?
Maybe start a new thread called 'Bad news for US economy' to write mumbo jumbo there?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 04:11:59 PM
Looks like we are screwing ourselves in the process...another crazy day in the stock market...the end result... down another 100+ points again today, after being up 250 at one point...Our economy is showing some frailness, although I do think/hope it will recover.


Fathertime!

 :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :wallbash: :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 04:40:04 PM
How is this relevant to the topic of this thread?



Thank you for asking!


I think it is relevant to realize that by attempting to damage the Russian economy we could also damage our own. It is certainly debatable.   It will be hard to say what the long-term consequences will be, after the dust settles in Ukraine. If I were to guess though, one byproduct of this whole thing will be less trust in the US dollar by non-aligned nations. I don't think any nation wants to feel they have to tow the US line or possibly be subject to sanctions.  I realize that you and JayH are giggling down in Australia so it is of little consequence to you if our economy winds up suffering. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 16, 2014, 04:58:11 PM
I realize this doesn't fit in with your World view fathertime,but the most likely byproduct of this whole thing is that  countries will have  less trust in Russia .

I don't think any country will want to feel that if they don't tow the Russian line they will be invaded by Russia and have their land stolen. :rolleyes:

That much isn't debatable....and i don't have to do any guessing either.

Your predictable attempt at deflecting from what is happening in Russia isn't working.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 05:03:27 PM
I realize this doesn't fit in with your World view fathertime,but the most likely byproduct of this whole thing is that  countries will have  less trust in Russia .

I don't think any country will want to feel that if they don't tow the Russian line they will be invaded by Russia and have their land stolen. :rolleyes:


I'm afraid I have to agree with you on this one...Russia will also suffer from distrust  from many of its neighbors....I don't know why that wouldn't be a part of my worldview.   :)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 05:05:01 PM

Thank you for asking!


I think it is relevant to realize that by attempting to damage the Russian economy we could also damage our own. It is certainly debatable.   It will be hard to say what the long-term consequences will be, after the dust settles in Ukraine. If I were to guess though, one byproduct of this whole thing will be less trust in the US dollar by non-aligned nations. I don't think any nation wants to feel they have to tow the US line or possibly be subject to sanctions.  I realize that you and JayH are giggling down in Australia so it is of little consequence to you if our economy winds up suffering. 


Fathertime!

Your ignorance and understanding of the world seems to have no bounds. Australia is part of WORLD economy- so events everywhere impact== and it is that very point that Putin does not get. No country can isolate itself in this era ( not if they want to remain effective) from the world-if you like-- no country is an economic island . What affects the US-affects all other countries.
There was always going to be a cost (to the rest of the world) of Putins stupidity in invading Ukraine-- and in this context I am referring to economic issues. The cost to Ukraine-is of course much higher in all terms.
As a poster here--you repeatedly show you have little understanding of world affairs-- and most disgustingly little empathy for the situation Ukraine is in-- and in particular the loss of life and injuries ,the hardship created by the brutality of of a war-- and why Ukraine needs help and support.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 16, 2014, 05:13:00 PM

...Russia will also suffer from distrust  from many of its neighbors....


Another win/win?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 05:13:49 PM
Five Russian banks came under sanctions Switzerland


12/16/2014

W veytsariya financial constraints imposed on thirteen individuals and five companies to prevent them bypass Western sanctions stosvno Russia. On Tuesday, December 16, -  informs Radio Liberty.

Included in the list of five Russian banks now need to obtain special permission to use long-term financial instruments in Switzerland.

According to the publication, the list -  Sergei Kozyak, who led a breakaway Election Commission "FSC" the so-called elections in Donbass 2 November.

Listed entities are prohibited to enter into contracts with financial intermediaries in Switzerland. The purpose of limitation -  the possibility to block the transfer of capital to the country, located outside the European Union.

In March Switzerland acceded to the EU sanctions imposed in connection with the Ukrainian crisis, but do not violate them.

According to agency Reuters, referring to the Swiss authorities, through their country held about 75 percent of transactions with Russian crude oil exports, and banks in Switzerland -  as of 2012 year  -  remained more than $ 15 billion of Russian investors.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 05:16:44 PM
Sanctions not working? Maybe the message is starting to get through!!

Russians suddenly got out online and kryyut Putin in everyone - Russian journalist

Chief editor of "New Region" Alexander Shchetinin described the mood of Russians due to the falling speed of the ruble

The mood has changed dramatically, he said on the air Espreso.TV .

"No one expected this, because the Russians lived sense of stability and there is a shock. That's yesterday look different groups, forums on the Internet and the Russians suddenly got out online and kryyut Putin in everyone. It's amazing where gone stability, where the 86% who unconditionally supported the Russian president, who chanted "Crimea ours!" - now they have a completely different mood ", - said Alexander Shchetinin.


Note now  the Central Bank of Russia assessed the situation on the foreign exchange market as critical.

Recall,  the Russian ruble has sold 100 rubles per euro and 80 rubles per dollar .

http://espreso.tv/news/2014/12/16/rosiyany_raptovo_vylizly_v_internet_i_kryyut_putina_po_vsyakomu
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 16, 2014, 05:18:13 PM
There is also another thought that not many on these boards seem to recognize, know or give any credence and that is, possibly Putin can't control the events and actions of the Russian military in Ukraine. Perhaps all is not as it seems?

FP
yes it is possible this may be occuring ,

however if it was occuring ,  given the history of russian revolutions its more likly if putin has lost control of the military/other bodies the new person/person emerging would be more vivible by now id think

thats not to say it isnt / cant or wont happen though

the other worse case is if putin is pushed even further from forces within the kremlin /duma , he may resort to even more unpredictable /desperate measure to either  reassert control or threaten the outside world , if he remains in control

this makes the situation very unpredicatble and dangerous for all imo

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 05:20:05 PM
Your ignorance and understanding of the world seems to have no bounds. Australia is part of WORLD economy- so events everywhere impact== and it is that very point that Putin does not get. No country can isolate itself in this era ( not if they want to remain effective) from the world-if you like-- no country is an economic island . What affects the US-affects all other countries.
There was always going to be a cost (to the rest of the world) of Putins stupidity in invading Ukraine-- and in this context I am referring to economic issues. The cost to Ukraine-is of course much higher in all terms.
As a poster here--you repeatedly show you have little understanding of world affairs-- and most disgustingly little empathy for the situation Ukraine is in-- and in particular the loss of life and injuries ,the hardship created by the brutality of of a war-- and why Ukraine needs help and support.


I was feeling like many of your comments have been ignorant and/or hypocritical.  You may be all in an uproar over this conflict in particular while ignoring or indirectly promoting a dozen others.   I've come to realize you are not too up on things worldwide.  I don't see Russia as pure evil in regards to this conflict...so naturally I'm going to disagree with the USA further fomenting the unrest  any more than they already have.  Perhaps from Russia's viewpoint, they are doing what they have to do....and if they suffer from it, so be it. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 05:27:52 PM

The Russian people will see clearly for a long time - Nemtsov


Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov believes that Russia waiting for hard times, but people will not soon rise

He expressed this opinion in the air Espreso.TV .

"I think the events in Russia will develop in a negative scenario: a deep economic crisis will be double-digit inflation (perhaps 20%, 30%), will continue to weaken the ruble, Putin will not change its policy. Gradually, very slowly, people will of seeing, understanding that he led the country to a standstill, but it will not be fast enough and take great time "- he said, adding that the Russian government still denies any guilt.

"During this time, unemployment will rise, will be the social protests grow dramatically and drastically the number of poor people, but he (Putin - Ed.) Will all blame on you, these bastards are Ukrainian, Europeans, Americans, and he did not," - Russian politician said.

Nemtsov also warned Ukrainian rejoice collapse of the ruble, after seeking the extreme, Putin most likely find their place in Ukraine. This can greatly speed up the full-scale hostilities.

"Do not rejoice Ukrainian falling ruble, as the financial crisis just pushes him (Putin - Ed.) Before the war. For war is fog. You see, when a peaceful country destroyed the national currency and rising prices, all questions to the government and the president, and when the country is at war, all questions to the aggressor or, to the one who fights with you - backstage world, the "Bandera" and so on. Therefore it in order to explain why the Russian economy collapsed, he just this war is necessary. The chance of war is increased, "- said Boris Nemtsov.




http://espreso.tv/news/2014/12/16/rosiyany_raptovo_vylizly_v_internet_i_kryyut_putina_po_vsyakomu
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 05:34:46 PM

I was feeling like many of your comments have been ignorant and/or hypocritical.  You may be all in an uproar over this conflict in particular while ignoring or indirectly promoting a dozen others.   I've come to realize you are not too up on things worldwide.  I don't see Russia as pure evil in regards to this conflict...so naturally I'm going to disagree with the USA further fomenting the unrest  any more than they already have.  Perhaps from Russia's viewpoint, they are doing what they have to do....and if they suffer from it, so be it. 


Fathertime!

One last time---- this is not about the USA. That is pure Kremlin BS on a large scale .Even if you actually are an American-- the USA is part of the world-as I said above.It is neither an economic or political island-- there are many mutually benefiicial agreements in place  and as such--the US not only has the right to get involved--it has the obligation.\
Your isolationist thoughts were outdated a century ago-- so repeating them now is really too ridiculous.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 05:45:02 PM
FP
yes it is possible this may be occuring ,

however if it was occuring ,  given the history of russian revolutions its more likly if putin has lost control of the military/other bodies the new person/person emerging would be more vivible by now id think

thats not to say it isnt / cant or wont happen though

the other worse case is if putin is pushed even further from forces within the kremlin /duma , he may resort to even more unpredictable /desperate measure to either  reassert control or threaten the outside world , if he remains in control

this makes the situation very unpredicatble and dangerous for all imo

SX
It certainly adds another factor for sure.
I wrote yesterday of a growing confidence in Ukraine about their own ability to handle the situation militarily( I am more hopeful than confident on that point-- saying that with total respect for the Ukrainians).
Russia is positioned to escalate dramatically- and uncertainty at the top could lead to anything happening.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 16, 2014, 05:48:32 PM

The Russian people will see clearly for a long time - Nemtsov


Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov believes that Russia waiting for hard times, but people will not soon rise

He expressed this opinion in the air Espreso.TV .

"I think the events in Russia will develop in a negative scenario: a deep economic crisis will be double-digit inflation (perhaps 20%, 30%), will continue to weaken the ruble, Putin will not change its policy. Gradually, very slowly, people will of seeing, understanding that he led the country to a standstill, but it will not be fast enough and take great time "- he said, adding that the Russian government still denies any guilt.

"During this time, unemployment will rise, will be the social protests grow dramatically and drastically the number of poor people, but he (Putin - Ed.) Will all blame on you, these bastards are Ukrainian, Europeans, Americans, and he did not," - Russian politician said.

Nemtsov also warned Ukrainian rejoice collapse of the ruble, after seeking the extreme, Putin most likely find their place in Ukraine. This can greatly speed up the full-scale hostilities.

"Do not rejoice Ukrainian falling ruble, as the financial crisis just pushes him (Putin - Ed.) Before the war. For war is fog. You see, when a peaceful country destroyed the national currency and rising prices, all questions to the government and the president, and when the country is at war, all questions to the aggressor or, to the one who fights with you - backstage world, the "Bandera" and so on. Therefore it in order to explain why the Russian economy collapsed, he just this war is necessary. The chance of war is increased, "- said Boris Nemtsov.




http://espreso.tv/news/2014/12/16/rosiyany_raptovo_vylizly_v_internet_i_kryyut_putina_po_vsyakomu

YES ,id agree with a lot of nemtsovs thoughts here ,
the situation becomes more unstable as russia finances /economy falters

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 16, 2014, 05:58:35 PM
Looks like we are screwing ourselves in the process...another crazy day in the stock market...the end result... down another 100+ points again today, after being up 250 at one point...Our economy is showing some frailness, although I do think/hope it will recover.


Fathertime!


Our economy is showing some frailness?


You definitely are a shill for the Kremlin.


Please, explain to me how is our economy showing some frailness.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 05:58:41 PM
YES ,id agree with a lot of nemstovs thoughts here ,
the situation becomes more unstable as russia finances /economy falters

SX

I have always felt that we need to be careful what we wish for-in relation to Russian system collapse. While prima facie I would rejoice total political and economic disruption in Russia ( in effect to free Ukraine of a war and disruption-and get it's borders returned)-- it could create far greater chaos.
With effective political opposition suppressed -- and having little influence-- I doubt that there is enough strength in the potentially sensible alternatives in Russia to be able to get control  . More likely we could get more lunatic extremism running Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 16, 2014, 06:00:51 PM
How is this relevant to the topic of this thread?
Maybe start a new thread called 'Bad news for US economy' to write mumbo jumbo there?


Don't give him a podium, please. Just ask him simple questions like "please explain" so he looks like a fool.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 16, 2014, 06:02:21 PM

Don't give him a podium, please. Just ask him simple questions like "please explain" so he looks like a fool.

Or like many of us, just put him on Ignore.  He can talk to himself.     ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 16, 2014, 06:03:21 PM

Thank you for asking!


I think it is relevant to realize that by attempting to damage the Russian economy we could also damage our own. It is certainly debatable.   It will be hard to say what the long-term consequences will be, after the dust settles in Ukraine. If I were to guess though, one byproduct of this whole thing will be less trust in the US dollar by non-aligned nations. I don't think any nation wants to feel they have to tow the US line or possibly be subject to sanctions.  I realize that you and JayH are giggling down in Australia so it is of little consequence to you if our economy winds up suffering. 


Fathertime!


Listen Greenspan, have you consider that the Hryvna may out-perform the "Rubble?" To intricate for you to understand?


Please debate this.


Edit: Let me add this. Consider that crude is exchanged in US DOLLARS. Do you know what that means to the Russians?
Let's see how smart you are.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 06:14:55 PM

Don't give him a podium, please. Just ask him simple questions like "please explain" so he looks like a fool.
:clapping: :thumbsup:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 06:29:44 PM
​Sorry, Putin. Russia’s economy is doomed

A funny thing happened on the way to Vladimir Putin running strategic laps around the West. Russia's economy imploded.

The latest news is that Russia's central bank raised interest rates from 10.5 to 17 percent at an emergency 1 a.m. meeting in an attempt to stop the ruble, which is down 50 percent on the year against the dollar, from falling any further. It's a desperate move to save Russia's currency that comes at the cost of sacrificing Russia's economy.

But even that wasn't enough. After a brief rally, the ruble resumed its cliff-diving ways on Tuesday, falling another 14 percent to a low of 80 rubles per dollar. It was 60 rubles per dollar just the day before. The problem is simple. Oil is still falling, and ordinary Russians don't want to hold their money in rubles even if they get paid 17 percent interest to do so. In other words, there's a well-justified panic. So now Russia is left with the double whammy of a collapsing currency and exorbitant interest rates. Checkmate.

It's a classic kind of emerging markets crisis. It's only a small simplification, you see, to say that Russia doesn't so much have an economy as it has an oil exporting business that subsidizes everything else. That's why the combination of more supply from the United States, and less demand from Europe, China, and Japan has hit them particularly hard. Cheaper oil means Russian companies have fewer dollars to turn into rubles, which is just another way of saying that there's less demand for rubles—so its price is falling. It hasn't helped, of course, that sanctions over Russia's incursion into Ukraine have already left Russia short on dollars.

Add it all up, and the ruble has fallen something like 22 percent against the dollar the past month, with 11 percent of that coming on Monday alone. As you can see below, the Russian ruble has fallen even further than the Ukrainian hryvnia or Brent oil has this year. The only asset, and I use that word lightly, that's done worse than the ruble's 50 percent fall is Bitcoin, which is a fake currency that techno-utopians insist is the future we don't know we want.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/15/russias-economy-is-doomed-its-that-simple/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 06:34:08 PM
Interesting to see others reaching the same conclusions !!

PUTIN IS NO GENIUS

And this is only going to get worse. Russia, you see, is stuck in an economic catch-22. Its economy needs lower interest rates to push up growth, but its companies need higher interest rates to push up the ruble and make all the dollars they borrowed not worth so much. So, to use a technical term, they're screwed no matter what they do. If they had kept interest rates low, then the ruble would have continued to disintegrate, inflation would have spiked, and big corporations would have defaulted—but at least growth wouldn't have fallen quite so much.

Instead, Russia has opted for the financial shock-and-awe of raising rates from 10.5 to 17 percent in one fell swoop. Rates that high will send Russia's moribund economy into a deep recession—its central bank already estimates its economy will contract 4.5 to 4.7 percent if oil stays at $60-a-barrel—but they haven't been enough to stop the ruble's free fall. Russia might have to resort to capital controls to prop up the value of the ruble now, and might even have to ask the IMF for a bailout, too.




Putin's Russia, like the USSR before it, is only as strong as the price of oil. In the 1970s, we made the mistake of thinking that the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan meant we were losing the Cold War, when the reality was that they had stumbled into their own Vietnam and could only afford to feed their people as long as oil stayed sky-high. The USSR's economic mirage, though, became apparent to everybody—none less than their own people, who had to scrounge in empty supermarkets—after oil prices bottomed out in the 1980s. That history is repeating itself now, just without the Marxism-Leninism. Putin could afford to invade Georgia and Ukraine when oil prices were comfortably in the triple digits, but not when they're half that. Russia can't afford anything then.

Putin might be playing chess while we play checkers, but only if we lend him the money for the set.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/15/russias-economy-is-doomed-its-that-simple/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 06:43:03 PM
One last time---- this is not about the USA. That is pure Kremlin BS on a large scale .Even if you actually are an American-- the USA is part of the world-as I said above.It is neither an economic or political island-- there are many mutually benefiicial agreements in place  and as such--the US not only has the right to get involved--it has the obligation.\
Your isolationist thoughts were outdated a century ago-- so repeating them now is really too ridiculous.


I count 3 Australians on this one page all telling America what is obligated to do!   I do get why Australians in particular would be big on banding together nations, since they have a HUGE landmass with a very low population around to protect it.    That said, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I.  If you are so against isolationism, don't you think that you should allow some of those crowded islands next door repopulate your empty country, instead of having some of the strictest immigration laws on earth?  Or do you prefer to be a hypocrite?


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 06:45:40 PM

Listen Greenspan, have you consider that the Hryvna may out-perform the "Rubble?" To intricate for you to understand?


Let's see how smart you are.


When trying so hard to make somebody look foolish don't you think it would be wise to learn how to spell second grade words first?  :rolleyes:


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 06:51:24 PM
Or like many of us, just put him on Ignore.  He can talk to himself.     ;D


You keep putting me on ignore for about 5 minutes but then un-ignore while responding, and quoting my posts like you did yesterday  ;D [size=78%]....You aren't fooling anybody!   [/size]
[/size]
YES ,id agree with a lot of nemtsovs thoughts here ,
the situation becomes more unstable as russia finances /economy falters

SX
Yes and we are causing this to happen!  If/when Russia escalates (possibly dramatically) we will wish we had negotiated right from the start and ended this conflict with minimal carnage!  It was possible, but instead we wanted to attempt to stonewall the Russian viewpoint.  Tsk Tsk Tsk.   










Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 16, 2014, 07:05:00 PM
You telling anyone that they are stupid is the highest compliment a male member can receive here.  Thanks dude.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 07:07:54 PM

I count 3 Australians on this one page all telling America what is obligated to do!   I do get why Australians in particular would be big on banding together nations, since they have a HUGE landmass with a very low population around to protect it.    That said, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I.  If you are so against isolationism, don't you think that you should allow some of those crowded islands next door repopulate your empty country, instead of having some of the strictest immigration laws on earth?  Or do you prefer to be a hypocrite?


Fathertime!
Not that I am going to indulge you--BUT---
None of the "3" Australians here are telling the US what to do-- if you can actually read and comprehend 99.9% is directed at telling Russia what to do-- and more specifically-- what to do in relation to Ukraine.In case you may have missed it-- we all have very specific family and/or  relationship reasons and a serious interest in Ukraine and the welfare of Ukrainians.
BTW- why are you here? ( that does not require an answer--as Muzh alledged a reason above--which btw-I had suggested 6 months ago !!)
As for immigration to Australia-- you keep showing your ignorance-- Australia is one of the most culturally diverse countries in the world--it is full of migrants from all around the world.
Australia also has a policy of controlled immigration designed to absorb and assimilate migrants successfully-- and at the same time maintaining our way of life  .
I would also point out that the Australian posters on the forum reflect the cultural mix in Australia-- something you would never know or understand.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 16, 2014, 07:09:23 PM

I count 3 Australians on this one page all telling America what is obligated to do!   I do get why Australians in particular would be big on banding together nations, since they have a HUGE landmass with a very low population around to protect it.   

Perhaps I missed it but how are they telling America what it is obligated to do?  I only recall them coming out against Putin and for Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 07:48:17 PM

As for immigration to Australia-- you keep showing your ignorance-- Australia is one of the most culturally diverse countries in the world--it is full of migrants from all around the world.
Australia also has a policy of controlled immigration designed to absorb and assimilate migrants successfully-- and at the same time maintaining our way of life  .



Australia...the size of a blimp...23 million occupants.
YOUR NEIGHBORS:
Indonesia...much smaller landmass 252 million

Philippines...much much smaller landmass...100 million occupants...


Yeah...you guys are REALLY trying hard to not be isolationists!   :rolleyes:  I guess you all just require a little 'living space'..hehehe


 So since you guys are clearly isolationists in many respects, why is it that I can't lobby for my country to be more isolationist when it comes to intervening in other country's conflicts? 


Not that I am going to indulge you--BUT---
None of the "3" Australians here are telling the US what to do-- if you can actually read and comprehend 99.9% is directed at telling Russia what to do-- and more specifically-- what to do in relation to Ukraine.In case you may have missed it-- we all have very specific family and/or  relationship reasons and a serious interest in Ukraine and the welfare of Ukrainians.
BTW- why are you here? ( that does not require an answer--as Muzh alledged a reason above--which btw-I had suggested 6 months ago !!)



Yes yes, I know I'm just a paid Russian troll...blah blah.....  Actually YOU did say what the US..MUST DO....here is your quote.
One last time---- this is not about the USA. That is pure Kremlin BS on a large scale .Even if you actually are an American-- the USA is part of the world-as I said above.It is neither an economic or political island-- there are many mutually benefiicial agreements in place  and as such--the US not only has the right to get involved--it has the obligation.\
Your isolationist thoughts were outdated a century ago-- so repeating them now is really too ridiculous.






Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on December 16, 2014, 07:55:01 PM
FP
yes it is possible this may be occuring ,

however if it was occuring ,  given the history of russian revolutions its more likly if putin has lost control of the military/other bodies the new person/person emerging would be more vivible by now id think

thats not to say it isnt / cant or wont happen though

the other worse case is if putin is pushed even further from forces within the kremlin /duma , he may resort to even more unpredictable /desperate measure to either  reassert control or threaten the outside world , if he remains in control

this makes the situation very unpredicatble and dangerous for all imo

SX

Putin set many things in motion a number of years ago when he set himself up to be president again despite  it being against the Russian constitution. In short, he owed a lot of favors. He built a machine on those favors that he can't control. To the West (and most Russians) it's difficult to understand who's in bed with whom in the Kremlin (much like elsewhere I suppose) but the Kremlin is run very close to the American mafia and there is no one "Don". Putin is only the visible one.

All this ranting and raving Putin this, Putin that is meaningless. Very likely Putin is just another Obama. All hat and no cattle
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 16, 2014, 09:02:54 PM
Fathertime said:
So since you guys are clearly isolationists in many respects, why is it that I can't lobby for my country to be more isolationist when it comes to intervening in other country's conflicts?

I forgot what country you're in. Belarus? Russia? Cuba?
Anyway, if countries intervene in Ukraine, it's because most Ukrainians are eager to accept outside help. That's obvious. On the other hand, there is a small minority in Donbas that wants outside intervention from Russia, while being led by mercenaries and Russian citizen/mercenaries, like Girkin.

FT, what would you like to see happen in Ukraine? ...The establishment of a 'New Russia'? Which is worse for Ukraine- Russia's invasion, or the West's intervention? And why?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 16, 2014, 09:18:40 PM
Putin set many things in motion a number of years ago when he set himself up to be president again despite  it being against the Russian constitution. In short, he owed a lot of favors. He built a machine on those favors that he can't control. To the West (and most Russians) it's difficult to understand who's in bed with whom in the Kremlin (much like elsewhere I suppose) but the Kremlin is run very close to the American mafia and there is no one "Don". Putin is only the visible one.

All this ranting and raving Putin this, Putin that is meaningless. Very likely Putin is just another Obama. All hat and no cattle.


I find this very hard to believe, although possible.  Putin is just another Obama?  That's a worse insult than anything anyone has said before, and it's highly unlikely that anyone could be more "all hat and no cattle" than Obama is.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 09:56:57 PM
Fathertime said:
So since you guys are clearly isolationists in many respects, why is it that I can't lobby for my country to be more isolationist when it comes to intervening in other country's conflicts?

I forgot what country you're in. Belarus? Russia? Cuba?
Anyway, if countries intervene in Ukraine, it's because most Ukrainians are eager to accept outside help. That's obvious. On the other hand, there is a small minority in Donbas that wants outside intervention from Russia, while being led by mercenaries and Russian citizen/mercenaries, like Girkin.

FT, what would you like to see happen in Ukraine? ...The establishment of a 'New Russia'? Which is worse for Ukraine- Russia's invasion, or the West's intervention? And why?


Why the tired old crack about being in Russia or Cuba?
I'm sure many Ukrainians are eager for outside help....and clearly the separatists don't want western involvement....None of this is our business.  This is a Russian/Ukrainian issue...if Russia wants to fight an insurgency for years then that is their problem.  The world doesn't need a war over this region...it is not worth it...There are battles around the world and we often hardly bat an eyelash, but the fact that Russia could gain some strength in this one really seems to bother some.   


What would I like to see happen?  I'd like to see the two countries come together and work out a compromise which will eventually happen, as it will eventually be in the best interests of both to move on.  Obama has stuck just the right cord, regardless of what his critics say!   :crackwhip:


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 16, 2014, 10:03:05 PM
Somethings up and I expect that the USA is finally giving Ukraine some weapons.  Two sources I found seem to confirm this:

http://investmentwatchblog.com/blogger-colonel-cassad-the-reason-for-shutting-down-ukrainian-airspace-is-to-accept-military-cargo-from-usa-new-unofficial-military-advisersassistants-should-be-expected-to-show-up-as-well/

and this guy
Dimitry Bespalov

December 13 at 9:33am ·
.
Наткнулся на такой комментарий, не знаю правда ли.

Пришло сообщение из Харькова. Мои источники говорят, что аэропорт готовят к приему грузовых самолетов из США, которые везут подарки на новый год для агрессора и террористов на Донбассе. А знаете какие подарки? Правильно, — летальное оружие… Тизерная сеть GlobalTeaser Говорят, что готовят 3 аэропорта для приема: Запорожье, Харьков, Днепропетровск. Именно поэтому их и закрыли. Россия попытается всячески помешать доставить груз. В том числе может применить и свои »Буки». Для того, чтобы не пострадали мирные и для того, чтобы сбить агрессора с толку, было принято решение закрыть сразу 3 аэропорта. Пускай Путин думку гадает куда именно прибудет груз. А если хочет, пускай сбивает все, что летает в воздухе над Донбассом). Тогда и летального оружия не надо.. Сами россияне параноика уберут. Поводов для радости у террористов и агрессора должно быть очень много. Первый — Порошенко дал Путину 10 дней на размышление, иначе военное положение. Второе — Конгресс США одобрил акт военной поддержки Украины. И наконец третье — Аэропорты Харькова, Днепропетровска и Запорожье закрыли для мирной авиации. В СНБО не комментируют ситуацию. Ликуйте враги Украины! Подарки к Новому Году от союзников Украины уже на подходе. Мы уничтожали Вас ржавыми танками, уничтожали довольно таки успешно. Не сомневайтесь! С подарочками наших союзников вы будете умирать быстрее, возможно не мучаясь в агонии смерти…



Came across this comment, I do not know whether it was true.

Message from Kharkov. My sources say that the airport is prepared to receive cargo planes from the United States who bring gifts for the new year for the aggressor and terrorists in the Donbass region. Do you know what kind of gifts? Correctly, is a lethal weapon ... Teaser GlobalTeaser network say they are preparing to receive airport 3: Kiev, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk. That is why they have closed. Russia will try to prevent to deliver the goods. Including may apply and their "Beeches". In order to not hurt the peace and in order to bring down the aggressor be confusing, it was decided to close the airport 3 right away. Let Putin por. s. Karolak and wondering where it will load. And if you want, let them is anything that flies in the air over Donbass). Then lethal weapons do not.. The Russians are paranoid to be removed. Reasons for the joy of the terrorists and the aggressor should be very much. The first 10 days, Putin gave Poroshenko on meditation, or martial law. The second United States Congress approved the Act of Ukrainian military support. And finally the third Airports Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhia was closed to civilian aircraft. The NATIONAL SECURITY and DEFENSE COUNCIL does not comment on the situation. Ukraine's enemies rejoice! Gifts for the new year from allies of Ukraine are on the way. We destroyed you rusty tanks, destroyed quite successfully. Do not hesitate! With podaročkami our allies you will die faster, perhaps not suffering the agony of death ...

Translated by Bing

AC-- I found a video to support this!!
14.12.2014 Airport Zaporozhye - NATO redeployed support for Ukraine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpV5MSR2IW4
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 16, 2014, 10:06:57 PM

Why the tired old crack about being in Russia or Cuba?
I'm sure many Ukrainians are eager for outside help....and clearly the separatists don't want western involvement....None of this is our business.  This is a Russian/Ukrainian issue...if Russia wants to fight an insurgency for years then that is their problem.  The world doesn't need a war over this region...it is not worth it...There are battles around the world and we often hardly bat an eyelash, but the fact that Russia could gain some strength in this one really seems to bother some.   


What would I like to see happen?  I'd like to see the two countries come together and work out a compromise which will eventually happen, as it will eventually be in the best interests of both to move on.  Obama has stuck just the right cord, regardless of what his critics say!   :crackwhip:


Fathertime!

So your wife is Columbian?  If that is the case, what are you doing here?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 16, 2014, 10:12:04 PM
So your wife is Columbian?  If that is the case, what are you doing here?

I suspect his wife is Cuban and he is Russian.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2014, 10:17:25 PM
So your wife is Columbian?  If that is the case, what are you doing here?
I love a lively political debate, and besides I'm a Russian troll!   ;)


I suspect his wife is Cuban and he is Russian.


hehehe...sure...it is all about being a secret spy and spreading disinformation...nothing to do with merely having a different viewpoint!  :)


Fathertime! 




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 17, 2014, 12:53:13 AM
According to Bloomberg the U.S. has no intention on easing up on sanctions for now...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-16/u-s-won-t-ease-sanctions-to-prevent-economic-meltdown-in-russia.html

...I would hope that the US, EU and relevant NATO countries systematically increase sanctions in the new year not back away from them.

Has Putin lost control of the military?

Not at this point but it could happen. I'd suggest the first indication of such an event would be a significant withdrawal or even cessation of Russian aggression in Ukraine, over flights, large formations near NATO/neighboring countries, recall of Russian warships, etc. In other words they'd go quiet. Of course, in this day and age we'd have the advantage of knowing almost immediately if something of this nature were to happen which would have taken time to discern even a decade ago.

With one ingredient of the recipe already brewing (the current economic meltdown) we might even see something similar to the social/political/military upheaval as was witnessed when the USSR fell.

A counter argument to this is that putting Putin/Russia in a "nothing to lose" position might escalate Russia's abhorrent aggression outlined in this article...

Russia’s economic fallout may trigger default, aggression in Ukraine

.."Plunging ruble, falling oil prices and a decision to increase interest rates may force Russia to default on some debts

The Associated Press

December 16, 2014
 
WASHINGTON — Russia’s suddenly escalating financial crisis risks spilling beyond its borders and endangering parts of the global economy.

With economies in Europe, Japan, China and Latin America already ailing, fresh threats have emerged from Russia’s shrivelled currency, its move to dramatically boost interest rates, the damage from plummeting oil prices and Western sanctions over Russia’s action in Ukraine.

The alarming 10 per cent drop in the ruble over the past two days has amplified the economic turmoil in Russia. Investors fear that Russia may default on its foreign debt obligations — a move that would inflict hundreds of billions in losses on lenders abroad.

Some analysts also worry that tensions will further escalate between Russia and the United States and its European allies that imposed the sanctions. The White House upped the pressure Tuesday when President Barack Obama committed to approving additional sanctions.

Few see President Vladimir Putin as backing down.

“I do not expect him to blink,” said Ian Bremmer, president of the Eurasia Group, a political risk and consulting firm.

The financial consequences for the United States could be modest because of Russia’s diminished economic stature. Yet the geopolitical risk could ripple across continents.

Russia began the year as the world’s eighth-largest economy, with a gross domestic product of $2.1 trillion, according to the World Bank. A single ruble is now worth less than two pennies, having lost about 50 per cent of its value against the dollar since January.

This means Russia’s GDP has been halved in dollar terms, putting it roughly on par with Mexico and Indonesia as the world’s 15th largest economy.

Before financial markets opened Tuesday, the Bank of Russia hiked its key rate to protect the ruble’s value. In doing so, the bank hopes investors will find it more financially appealing to keep their money in Russia. Nevertheless, the ruble fell in trading to close Tuesday at 80 rubles to a dollar, compared with 65 on Monday. It recovered in late trading to a rate of 68 to the dollar.

Russian officials have already projected that their economy will shrink nearly 5 per cent next year. That will, by extension, affect its trading partners in Europe and Asia.

Russia imports about $324 billion in goods annually, primarily from China, Germany, Ukraine, Belarus and Japan. Those imports have grown costlier because of the falling ruble.

One potential global risk comes from Russia seeking to retaliate against the sanctions by stepping-up cyberattacks against U.S. targets and asserting itself more aggressively in Ukraine and other nearby countries, Bremmer said.

On Tuesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov argued in a French TV interview that the sanctions were intended to end Putin’s regime.

Unlike during the previous ruble crash in 1998, Russia is unlikely to receive help from the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, organizations backed by the United States and its European allies that contend that Russia has funnelled direct support to rebels fighting in Ukraine.

Isolated and alone, Russia might then choose to default on some of its debt.

“Our deepest fear has been — and still is — that putting Mr. Putin in a ‘nothing-to-lose’ situation removes any constraint he might have had against reneging on his foreign debt obligations, which Russian borrowers probably cannot pay off or service now,” writes Carl Weinberg, chief economist at High Frequency Economics. Foreign lenders would have to brace for $670 billion in losses.

This possibility has sparked an investor retreat from Russia. But that pullback has also caused investors to flee other emerging market currencies that are deemed risky. They include Turkey, Brazil, South Africa and Indonesia, noted John Higgins, chief markets economist at Capital Economics.

Higgins said that oil prices are the central factor that will determine “the depth of Russia’s problems and the consequences for the global financial markets.” Should oil continue to collapse, the financial and geopolitical turbulence in Russia will worsen.

U.S. crude oil markets rose 2 cents to close at $55.93 a barrel Tuesday, while the international counterpart dipped below $60 a barrel for the first time since May 2009. Oil prices have been cut in half over the past six months.

Analysts generally attribute the plunge in oil prices to rising supplies and slowing demand as Europe and Japan falter and China’s growth weakens. But as the price drops further, fears are intensifying that the decline is pointing to slower growth than many analysts had expected, said David Joy, chief market strategist at Ameriprise.

That could make the situation for Russia even more dire.

“Oil hasn’t found a bottom yet, so the pain is only going to get worse as the price of oil continues to fall,” Joy said.'...

http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/fallout-from-troubled-russia-risks-triggering-default-and-increased-aggression-in-ukraine/

In light of Mr. Putin's (and by extension the Russian government and people's support) insistence on trying to conquer it's neighbors I'm still of the opinion that a shooting war is unavoidable.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 17, 2014, 02:51:51 AM
I fear that Brass could be correct and know that we both hope the fighting does not escalate. Mr. Putin is in firm control yet and the prospect of him feeling backed into a corner with few prospects left is chilling.

Yesterday, high ranking members of the Finance Ministry fanned out to cover media interviews. On channel One, Russia's prime news channel, the ruble collapse was the fifth story in, not even the lead (or lede, to media purists). Finance Ministry spokespersons are blaming the fall of the ruble on currency speculators, and naturally many such unnamed villains are surely from the evil West.

Some members of the administration are also blaming those electronic currency signs, saying that those signs cause panic among the general population. Hmm, ya think?! Russians are buying up dollars as if the end of the world was near and many a mattress across the country has benefited from new padding in recent weeks.

The government is threatening to prosecute currency speculators at home, and more and more calls are being heard to "investigate" the Central Bank on charges of currency speculation. (Can you spell "scapegoat?")
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 17, 2014, 02:55:22 AM
Sanctions are working, but Russians are indeed resilient.

The sanctions that are working best on the everyday citizen are the Russian "reverse sanctions" against EU products, especially food products.

Inflation tied to loss of ruble value is being felt everywhere.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 17, 2014, 03:00:03 AM
JOKE:
 Russian boy says to his father: "Daddy, can I have 5 rubles to buy some sweets?"
 Father: "20 rubles? What do you need 50 rubles for?"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 17, 2014, 03:17:39 AM
According to Bloomberg the U.S. has no intention on easing up on sanctions for now...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-16/u-s-won-t-ease-sanctions-to-prevent-economic-meltdown-in-russia.html

...I would hope that the US, EU and relevant NATO countries systematically increase sanctions in the new year not back away from them.

Has Putin lost control of the military?

Not at this point but it could happen. I'd suggest the first indication of such an event would be a significant withdrawal or even cessation of Russian aggression in Ukraine, over flights, large formations near NATO/neighboring countries, recall of Russian warships, etc. In other words they'd go quiet. Of course, in this day and age we'd have the advantage of knowing almost immediately if something of this nature were to happen which would have taken time to discern even a decade ago.

With one ingredient of the recipe already brewing (the current economic meltdown) we might even see something similar to the social/political/military upheaval as was witnessed when the USSR fell.

A counter argument to this is that putting Putin/Russia in a "nothing to lose" position might escalate Russia's abhorrent aggression outlined in this article...

Russia’s economic fallout may trigger default, aggression in Ukraine

.."Plunging ruble, falling oil prices and a decision to increase interest rates may force Russia to default on some debts
The Associated Press
December 16, 2014
 WASHINGTON — Russia’s suddenly escalating financial crisis risks spilling beyond its borders and endangering parts of the global economy.
In light of Mr. Putin's (and by extension the Russian government and people's support) insistence on trying to conquer it's neighbors I'm still of the opinion that a shooting war is unavoidable.

Brass
\

I fear that Brass could be correct and know that we both hope the fighting does not escalate. Mr. Putin is in firm control yet and the prospect of him feeling backed into a corner with few prospects left is chilling.


In posts a little upthread--FauxPas #991  & #996 
                                         Southern Cross #1014 & #1019
and my self!!                     JayH    #1004   #1016 & # 1021
Have covered some of this-- and prospective outcome potentials.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 17, 2014, 04:07:35 AM
EU to tighten sanctions on Crimea in time for leaders summit
(Reuters) - The European Union will widen its ban on investment in Crimea to target Russian Black Sea oil and gas exploration, EU officials said on Wednesday, tightening sanctions first imposed over Moscow's annexation of the region.

At a summit on Thursday and Friday in Brussels, EU leaders meeting in the European Council will announce the punitive measures that are also expected to be coordinated with similar steps by the United States, officials have told Reuters.

The investment ban, the latest in a series of measures since July, is also designed to show that despite a dive in the Russian ruble's value, there will be no lifting of sanctions unless Moscow drops its support for rebels in eastern Ukraine.

"This is being done in time for the European Council," one EU official said following a political decision to go ahead with the Crimea measures late on Tuesday. "There are consequences for violating international law," said a second official on condition of anonymity.

As reported exclusively by Reuters on Dec. 10, the sanctions will also ban EU citizens from buying or financing companies in Crimea, which Russia annexed from Ukraine in March, prompting the worst East-West stand-off since the Cold War.

The latest draft of the statement to be delivered by EU leaders at their summit says the Crimea measures strengthen "the Union's policy of not recognizing the illegal annexation of Crimea".

The European Union has previously banned imports from Crimea and barred new investment in infrastructure projects in the transport, telecommunications and energy sectors, as well as investing in oil and gas ventures.

Now, "the sale, supply, transfer and export of goods and technology ... shall be prohibited," according to the draft document detailing the measures, which cites transport, telecommunications, energy and oil, gas and mineral exploration and production.

Europe is trying to weaken Russia's ability to develop the energy industry at the heart of its economy.

The annexation of Crimea gave Russia rich oil and gas resources in the Black sea, depriving Ukraine of them. Russian state-owned energy company Gazprom has proposed developing Crimea's oil and gas sector, officials said in March following the annexation.

The new measures will ban European investment in oil and gas drilling in the Black Sea, limiting development of the resources, according to the document seen by Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/17/us-ukraine-crisis-sanctions-idUSKBN0JV0ZO20141217?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
(Additional reporting by Julia Fioretti; editing by David Stamp
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on December 17, 2014, 05:58:35 AM
On channel One, Russia's prime news channel, the ruble collapse was the fifth story in, not even the lead (or lede, to media purists).

Unlike the news from Channel One,  the bulletins on Russia's Rain TV led with the rouble's record rout, calling yesterday a 'Black Tuesday' (with the dollar being worth 80,1 roubles and a euro buying as much as 100 roubles, at 3.13 p.m. in Moscow, Russia's currency hit its lowest ever levels against the dollar and euro)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 17, 2014, 07:01:35 AM
Looks like we are screwing ourselves in the process...another crazy day in the stock market...the end result... down another 100+ points again today, after being up 250 at one point...Our economy is showing some frailness, although I do think/hope it will recover.


You are more pessimistic than the "glass half empty" guy.  I place you in the paranoia category of Chicken Little, the folktale chicken who kept saying "The sky is falling."   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 17, 2014, 07:30:01 AM

EU to tighten sanctions on Crimea in time for leaders summit....As reported exclusively by Reuters on Dec. 10, the sanctions will also ban EU citizens from buying or financing companies in Crimea, which Russia annexed from Ukraine in March, prompting the worst East-West stand-off since the Cold War.

This supports one of my three-part forecast - namely Crimea will become another Northern Cyprus. 

The two other parts:  The Donesk-Lugansk region becomes another Chechnya (replete with Detroits) and Russia becomes another North Korea albeit not nearly as poor but certainly underachieving and most important, an even larger threat to world stability. 

I made my "another North Korea" forecast in jest, yet could it happen?  Does Putin have the ability to withstand a combination of prolonged recession, inflation, reduced government services, and ban on capital flight?  Doll says Russians will "eat dirt" rather than give up.  That was true in the middle of the 20th C and centuries before, but we are well into the 21st Century.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 17, 2014, 07:44:35 AM
Yesterday, the President indicated that he would sign the new sanctions bill passed unanimously by Congress.  The bill awards $350,000,000 in military aide including, possibly lethal weapons to Ukraine.  It also, again, strengthens sanctions against the Russian military industrial providers.

There was speculation that the President would not sign the bill because it pushed the US out front and ahead of Europe in sanctions.  But yesterday the President essentially said that he had enough 'wiggle' room to twin up with whatever Europe was doing.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 17, 2014, 09:00:04 AM

When trying so hard to make somebody look foolish don't you think it would be wise to learn how to spell second grade words first?  :rolleyes:


Fathertime!


Point is, did you answer the question? Nope.


Diffuse and re-direct. Classical signs of submission.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2014, 09:07:50 AM

Point is, did you answer the question? Nope.


Diffuse and re-direct. Classical signs of submission.


I don't see any reason to answer your questions, as you don't answer other peoples.   It goes back to you get treated the same as you treat others.   :D


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2014, 09:12:24 AM
You are more pessimistic than the "glass half empty" guy.  I place you in the paranoia category of Chicken Little, the folktale chicken who kept saying "The sky is falling."


At the time a near 1000 point drop in the market over the past week or so is worth a mention.  Whether you like it or not,there is an issue of potential backfire.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 17, 2014, 09:18:05 AM
The fundamentals of the Russian economy were weak, as it is such a commodity based economy. 


I don't buy the propaganda that the U.S. is behind the crumbling ruble.  It would not be falling so precipitously were oil prices high, and I don't believe the US is behind that. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 17, 2014, 10:21:46 AM

At the time a near 1000 point drop in the market over the past week or so is worth a mention. 

Yes, worth a mention yet you then leapt to the conclusion "Our economy is showing some frailness."  Please cite economic data showing our frailness in the world economy.  I will save you the time - the only frail part is the slowing growth in the rest of the world.  However, lower energy costs should be a stimulus. 



Quote
Whether you like it or not, there is an issue of potential backfire.

The only backfire is the sound of your ass coming out of your mouth. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2014, 10:45:37 AM
Yes, worth a mention yet you then leapt to the conclusion "Our economy is showing some frailness."  Please cite economic data showing our frailness in the world economy.  I will save you the time - the only frail part is the slowing growth in the rest of the world.  However, lower energy costs should be a stimulus. 



The only backfire is the sound of your ass coming out of your mouth.


You are mistaken if you don't think our economy is very delicate.  An escalation involving us in Russia could easily backfire.   It seems you are once again very grumpy that somebody has the ability to express a valid OPINION, that differs with yours.  Too bad!  :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 17, 2014, 10:51:14 AM
And yet you don't bother to cite any sources.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2014, 10:58:32 AM
And yet you don't bother to cite any sources.


Thank you for asking nicely, unlike the grumpy old man!   :D

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/will-the-u-s--catch-russia-s-cold--203719563.html




Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 17, 2014, 11:51:34 AM

I don't see any reason to answer your questions, as you don't answer other peoples.   It goes back to you get treated the same as you treat others.   :D


Fathertime!


Heh, sure.


That won't stop you from yelling at women and insulting them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 17, 2014, 02:03:27 PM

Thank you for asking nicely, unlike the grumpy old man!   :D

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/will-the-u-s--catch-russia-s-cold--203719563.html
Fathertime!

There was no question nor question mark in my sentence. It was a statement not a question. Just show links when you make those kind of statements..

 I actually don't give much credence to an unknown writer posing questions not hard facts at Yahoo. Hardly a credible source.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 17, 2014, 02:05:54 PM
duplicate
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2014, 02:19:52 PM
There was no question nor question mark in my sentence. It was a statement not a question. Just show links when you make those kind of statements..

 I actually don't give much credence to an unknown writer posing questions not hard facts at Yahoo. Hardly a credible source.


I don't think every comment like the one I made requires a link every time.  You don't have to give his opinion credence, although it is also possible that his opinion upsets you just a bit, hence it is 'not credible'.  He is not the only one who has commented on the possiblity of sanctions backfiring, which is something that I would not like to see...ultimately I want our economy to continue on the right track.


Fathertime!   


 [size=78%]  [/size]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 17, 2014, 04:08:44 PM
Quote
Unlike the news from Channel One,  the bulletins on Russia's Rain TV led with the rouble's record rout, calling yesterday a 'Black Tuesday' (with the dollar being worth 80,1 roubles and a euro buying as much as 100 roubles, at 3.13 p.m. in Moscow, Russia's currency hit its lowest ever levels against the dollar and euro)

Ghost, I like TV Rain. As you probably know, the government keeps trying to shut them down. Several months ago a new law was passed that banned advertising on paid cable stations, directly impacting TV Rain. Oddly enough, public channels with connections to the Kremlin were exempted from the ban.

Earlier this month they were evicted from their professional studios when their landlord ended their lease in October. They moved into rented space with Snob magazine in Moscow, but suddenly in the first week of this month they were given 24 hours to move out. So now they are broadcasting from an apartment in Moscow.

Just a few years back then-President Medvedev did a tour and gave an interview at their (original) studios. He then expressed support for independent channels and commended their cutting-edge technology and production qualities. Today however, TV Rain is on the wrong side of the Kremlin's view of the news, and thus it is difficult to tell how long TV Rain will survive.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 17, 2014, 04:20:10 PM
Medvedyev is a Putin puppet.  As far as Putin potential successors go, he is too much with the Old Regime.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 17, 2014, 05:29:42 PM
The fundamentals of the Russian economy were weak, as it is such a commodity based economy. 


I don't buy the propaganda that the U.S. is behind the crumbling ruble.  It would not be falling so precipitously were oil prices high, and I don't believe the US is behind that.

Let me put it this way-- if Russia had not invaded  Ukrainian Crimea and had stayed out of interfering in Ukraine-- the rubble would not be where it is today.
The idea that it is the US acting alone or for some hidden agenda is nonsense-- in previous posts I made the point that the world has and integrated economy that is dependent on all parts to function. Sure the US is important-- but only a part of the equation.Russian attempts to blame every and anyone else for their economic crisis is ridiculous-- they have done it to themselves.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 18, 2014, 01:17:46 AM
Let me put it this way-- if Russia had not invaded  Ukrainian Crimea and had stayed out of interfering in Ukraine-- the rubble would not be where it is today.


At the very least, Rosneft would have been able to borrow money on the international market to pay off the old debt it owed instead of converting roubles to dollars to pay off IIRC the $30 billion slice that came due this December...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 18, 2014, 02:11:22 AM
Are the Russian people resilient or stupid?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 18, 2014, 03:17:19 AM
I am increasingly aware of the care one must take when living in the midst of a nation that has been deluded. Most Russians interviewed like this seem convinced that they are facing another 1941, only this time the coming invader is not Germany, but America and NATO. My wife has become increasingly concerned for my safety as the anti-American mood today is very high.

Sasha (Aleksandr) Sotnik conducted a very interesting piece last week, asking on-the-street Russians about the economic crisis and more importantly, who is to blame. The central theme is of a "western aggressor" and that mirrors the 1940s-1950s phrase of "Nazi aggressor." This was not a scientific poll, but it models existing polling that indicates that most Russians still support the Putin government and are ready to sacrifice for the cause of repelling the West.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyidoFDmMLc

Before any of us go spouting off about how horrible and evil these people are, we must remember than for any of us, you and I included, we humans tend to make decisions and opinions based on the information we have available. And the point is just this: most of our readers outside Russia have more than one source of news. We have no restrictions on what media may report, nor is what we see and read filtered by a central government. In Russia, the news and information is largely filtered in such a controlled manner, as travelers such as Misha have reported, that it is almost mind-numbing to readers from the West.

The news coverage here is so focused on one viewpoint that it is almost like torture, having the same newscast played over and over inside a prison cell at all hours of the day and night.

Fact: you cannot form an alternative opinion if you have no, or very limited access, to alternative ideas and viewpoints.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 18, 2014, 03:47:42 AM
Mende-I entirely agree with you comments and sentiments.
The problem on forums is that we have ignorance from people that do have access to information--and still spew the Kremlin propaganda.

They are not winning anyone to the plight of everyday Russians .

But if i am forced to choose between countries then I can say nothing nice about Russia in the current situation-- and right now it is Russians killing Ukrainians who are attempting to defend their country-- and the simple solution is for Russia to withdraw. Until that happens the lot of Russians is going to get a lot worse.If that much discomfort can be caused  in just a few months-- how will it be when the sanctions are uprated and really kick in?

The crux of this is how long it will take for those everyday Russians wake up who is really to blame for their situation-- and an even bigger question-- what can they do about it?

In the meantime-I would urge you to move-maybe to Kiev where free speech and democracy is now rated as an important way of life !I don't think any thinking journalist is safe in Moscow-too many fringe lunatics in that asylum !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 05:04:17 AM
Let me put it this way-- if Russia had not invaded  Ukrainian Crimea and had stayed out of interfering in Ukraine-- the rubble would not be where it is today.
The idea that it is the US acting alone or for some hidden agenda is nonsense-- in previous posts I made the point that the world has and integrated economy that is dependent on all parts to function. Sure the US is important-- but only a part of the equation.Russian attempts to blame every and anyone else for their economic crisis is ridiculous-- they have done it to themselves.
You should read about the currency of other countries that sell oil
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 18, 2014, 05:24:54 AM
Mendy that is not true.  The Russian people have access to the truth.  Many in the opposition have been warning her FOR DECADES about the dangers of this man.  And yet their messiah is sinless.

Here is one man standing up against this killer of his own people:

ВЕСЕЛЫЕ ТАЙНЫ ПРАВОСЛАВИЯ: http://youtu.be/9uTSxAVm2MQ

If Russia would show one tenth the courage this man shows every day, Russia would be free.

Instead . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 06:06:50 AM
Russia IS free
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 06:20:06 AM
Mendy that is not true.  The Russian people have access to the truth.  Many in the opposition have been warning her FOR DECADES about the dangers of this man.  And yet their messiah is sinless.

Here is one man standing up against this killer of his own people:

ВЕСЕЛЫЕ ТАЙНЫ ПРАВОСЛАВИЯ:

If Russia would show one tenth the courage this man shows every day, Russia would be free.

Instead . . .
It is  a staged BS and has nothing to do with this thread
Youtube is full of cr$p like this
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 18, 2014, 06:26:21 AM
Russia IS free
Sure as long as you adhere to the party line and dare note question the government. Lord help you if you dare to have your own opinion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on December 18, 2014, 08:11:32 AM

Sasha (Aleksandr) Sotnik conducted a very interesting piece last week, asking on-the-street Russians about the economic crisis and more importantly, who is to blame. The central theme is of a "western aggressor" and that mirrors the 1940s-1950s phrase of "Nazi aggressor." This was not a scientific poll, but it models existing polling that indicates that most Russians still support the Putin government and are ready to sacrifice for the cause of repelling the West.


Mendy, the 'survey' conducted by Sasha shows a generational split on the current situation in Russia.
The question Sasha asked was: who do you think will win the Cold War?
While young Russians were unequivocal in their answers, saying Russia will win, answers given by older respondents reflect the fact that older Russians take different views of the economic crisis. So the whole thing isn't quite hopeless  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 08:25:52 AM
Sure as long as you adhere to the party line and dare note question the government. Lord help you if you dare to have your own opinion.
Russia has always been free, will always be
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 18, 2014, 08:48:46 AM
I watched part of Putin's presser this morning.  Quite interesting.  In a way, I was spellbound.  He was entirely believable.  His dour way of expressing himself and straightforward manor leave me to believe his speech plays very well with the masses. 

Ultimately he addressed no problems and blamed everything on the 'other guy' although he didn't often say who the 'other guy' was.  He stated, more than once, that there would be a budget surplus.  (Well, that is easy to do when you are manipulating the spending.)

Here's what he didn't say:  How he is going to finance his new war machine that he has been boasting about and flourishing

Here's what he did say:  The United States has bases through out the world, why shouldn't we?  I found that to be a blanket 'throwing down of the gauntlet'. 

Sometimes we give the Russian population too much credit.  If Obama had given the same speech after the dollar tanked the day before, the populous would be all over him and he'd be run out of town.  Even by his own party.  Absent any serious dissent through an opposition party, with equal air time, it is unreasonable to think that the Russian people would be able to discern the true state of affairs.  Even, as we have seen, when some Russians are exposed to the truth here in America - they still can't get the noodles out of their ears.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 18, 2014, 09:00:16 AM
I  have to agree with your assessment of his speech.  One thing for sure is that Russia is much better at propaganda than the West.  I am trying to remember if during the cold war, the Russian people were as well controlled by propaganda or were oppressed by brute force of the Kremlin.

It is quite startling to witness in real time the outright lies that are believed by so many people that have access to the internet and alternative news sources.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 10:08:15 AM
  Sometimes we give the Russian population too much credit.  If Obama had given the same speech after the dollar tanked the day before, the populous would be all over him and he'd be run out of town.  Even by his own party.  Absent any serious dissent through an opposition party, with equal air time, it is unreasonable to think that the Russian people would be able to discern the true state of affairs.  Even, as we have seen, when some Russians are exposed to the truth here in America - they still can't get the noodles out of their ears.
Listen, rouble (AND the currency of all the countries that sell oil) "tanked".
Is it Putin's fault that the price for oil has changed that  dramatically? Is he a suicider? No way.
Russians understand it.
Also - do you know who owns Central Bank of Russia?
So these two things are staged (not by Putin).
Russians are not idiots and understand both parts.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 10:09:23 AM
I  have to agree with your assessment of his speech.  One thing for sure is that Russia is much better at propaganda than the West.  I am trying to remember if during the cold war, the Russian people were as well controlled by propaganda or were oppressed by brute force of the Kremlin.

 
So were Americans.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 10:13:49 AM
BTW, dollar is 61 rubles today, so it is getting better
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2014, 10:19:24 AM
Listen, rouble (AND the currency of all the countries that sell oil) "tanked".
Is it Putin's fault that the price for oil has changed that  dramatically?

No other petro country currency has fallen as dramatically as has the ruble.  Norway's krone fell from 6.93 Krone per US dollar to 7.36 in a month.  Canada is an "oil" state as well.  Its currency has fallen 8%.  Hardly comparable to the dramatic collapse of the ruble.

The overnight increase in the ruble is due to the Central Bank propping it up with foreign currency, so it is not as big a win as you believe.
 
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2014, 10:21:03 AM
So were Americans.
During the Cold War?  No, there is no comparison.  Not even on the same planet.  Western media has been dumbed down a lot though since those days.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 18, 2014, 10:26:49 AM
To answer your question, Doll.  Yes.  I do know who owns the Central Bank.  While independent, it is commissioned by the Russian constitution.  (Mendy wrote a good post on this quite recently.)  I have been to Neglinnaya Ul. in Moskva.

Now, I have a question (or two) for you:  Did you watch his Presser?  Or is your response to me coming before actually having watched the speech?  Is it your assertion that the drop of oil prices was conspicuously created as an artificial act to ruin the Russian economy as Putin alluded to?

You keep on saying Russians are not idiots.  I'm hoping to see your proof of that. 

As a general response to most of your recent posts, it is not 'freedom' when you are not able to hear both sides of an argument.  You are forced to accept the only point of view offered.  Doll, it is time you removed the noodles from your ears.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2014, 10:30:09 AM
Russia has always been free, will always be
Well, no, not always.  There was the Golden Horde.  As for Russians (as opposed to Russia), perhaps you can explain this "freedom" to my husband, whose ancestors were exiled under the Tsars, and his immediate family, who fled their estates and moved to Ukraine in order to escape the same fate as those in their family who did not have that foresight.  Those family members who did not escape to Ukrainewere shot to death, down to babes in arms, by the "freedom loving" Bolsheviks.  One who did escape, to Paris, was persuaded to come back, and on his return, was immediately sent to Lubyanka, where he was tortured for days before being shot.  Then, of course, my own husband was so "free", he was denied the right to leave the USSR, right up to its collapse.   
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 10:41:08 AM
During the Cold War?  No, there is no comparison.  Not even on the same planet.  Western media has been dumbed down a lot though since those days.
It is very comparable
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2014, 10:41:22 AM
BTW Doll, were Putin a visionary leader, or even a good leader, he would have been working to diversify Russia's economy.  To have 50% of state revenue reliant on one resource is not smart because, when it collapses, as Russia now knows, so does the country's currency and standard of living.
I have always maintained that Russia was really no different from Ukraine.  The only difference is, Russia has vast commodity wealth.  Russia also went much further in reining in its oligarchs, but its economic prosperity was not deep. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 10:42:06 AM
To answer your question, Doll.  Yes.  I do know who owns the Central Bank.  While independent, it is commissioned by the Russian constitution.     
It is owned by the USA
Hello!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 10:44:03 AM
I just tried to watch Putin's press conference but on my computer it stopped every 10 seconds.
Can you give me a link where I can watch it, Jone?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 10:48:24 AM
Well, no, not always.  There was the Golden Horde.  As for Russians (as opposed to Russia), perhaps you can explain this "freedom" to my husband, whose ancestors were exiled under the Tsars, and his immediate family, who fled their estates and moved to Ukraine in order to escape the same fate as those in their family who did not have that foresight.  Those family members who did not escape to Ukrainewere shot to death, down to babes in arms, by the "freedom loving" Bolsheviks.  One who did escape, to Paris, was persuaded to come back, and on his return, was immediately sent to Lubyanka, where he was tortured for days before being shot.  Then, of course, my own husband was so "free", he was denied the right to leave the USSR, right up to its collapse.   
Ok, not after Golden Horde
By the way the story of your husband has nothing to do with Russia being free.
Free from any other country.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2014, 10:53:40 AM
No, I disagree.  A country can't be free if its inhabitants are prisoners.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2014, 11:06:04 AM
It is very comparable
Having lived in the USSR during part of that period, and having lived in the West, I can tell you that you are deeply mistaken. 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 18, 2014, 11:12:00 AM
Doll,

I have the feeling that you have absolutely no clue as to what the Russian Central Bank is and does.  It is a policy body.  It determines the amount of cash and reserves in the Russian economy.  It is completely controlled by the policy makers who sit at the Financial Advisors table in the Kremlin.  It would be comparable to the FED here in the US, but has slightly different functions.  One of those functions, that the FED does not participate in, is money speculation. 

As an entity, it does have a majority ownership in Sberbank, which operates on a retail basis in Russia and the former Soviet Union.

So, any commercial activity, as you point out, that may have US ownership, is not the function nor purpose for the bank.  The bank is rigidly controlled by the people in power in the Kremlin.  Any 'investment' or ownership as you claim, is for those who wish to ride along as the Russian government speculates.  Half of the proceeds coming from this entity are channeled directly back into the federal government budget.  There is much more to it.  But that is as far as I am willing to discuss it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 11:13:28 AM
Boe, it is just your opinion. I think that you are deeply mistaken
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 18, 2014, 11:14:24 AM
As for Putin's Presser, I watched it on The Moscow Times.  It was being fed live at the time.  (No translation, not that you need it.)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 11:23:19 AM
As for Putin's Presser, I watched it on The Moscow Times.  It was being fed live at the time.  (No translation, not that you need it.)
Link?
I don't need the translation)))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 18, 2014, 11:27:13 AM
Quote
it is time you removed the noodles from your ears.

Note: Jone's comment is a popular one in Russia. One of those phrases hard to understand by itself from a textbook, but Jone's use of it illustrates the proper usage.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2014, 11:31:01 AM
Note: Jone's comment is a popular one in Russia. One of those phrases hard to understand by itself from a textbook, but Jone's use of it illustrates the proper usage.
Note- Doll has no noodles on her ears
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 18, 2014, 11:33:04 AM
From Ghost:
Quote
Mendy, the 'survey' conducted by Sasha shows a generational split on the current situation in Russia. While young Russians were unequivocal in their answers, saying Russia will win, answers given by older respondents reflect the fact that older Russians take different views of the economic crisis.

Yes, when the older citizens were being interviewed it reminded me of those who still congregate around Stalin's burial site at the Kremlin wall, holding icons and signs about Stalin being their father.


Quote
So the whole thing isn't quite hopeless

I hope that you are correct.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on December 18, 2014, 11:40:20 AM
Link?
I don't need the translation)))

http://news.bigmir.net/world/866080-Press-konferencija-Putina-18-dekabrja--onlajn-transljacija
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 18, 2014, 12:03:21 PM
BTW, dollar is 61 rubles today, so it is getting better

Don't worry...
The currency speculators will be back soon to tank the Rouble.
So enjoy this 'recovery' while you can!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 18, 2014, 12:04:29 PM
It is  a staged BS and has nothing to do with this thread
Youtube is full of cr$p like this

Full of crap huh?

Can you be more specific?  What exactly does he say that is in your opinion full of crap?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 18, 2014, 12:07:32 PM
The Russian people are suffering worse than the Ukrainians.  They will suffer more and they deserve it.  They do not listen to the truth and instead believe the words of murderous scoundrel and that is the nicest thing I can say about the Russian president.

He also has earned an internationally earned moniker.  High time we be allowed to use it here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 18, 2014, 12:16:02 PM
BTW Doll, were Putin a visionary leader, or even a good leader, he would have been working to diversify Russia's economy.  To have 50% of state revenue reliant on one resource is not smart because, when it collapses, as Russia now knows, so does the country's currency and standard of living.
I have always maintained that Russia was really no different from Ukraine.  The only difference is, Russia has vast commodity wealth.  Russia also went much further in reining in its oligarchs, but its economic prosperity was not deep.

I was very impressed when I went to Russia in 2008, after not having been there for a few years.  The roads were better, the people energized, the farmland looked like the fields had been tilled and were producing.  However, progress is made, not through technology, or oil revenues, but through infrastructure.  Roads.  Hospitals.  Commodity (food and staples) distribution centers.  All of these items are now on hold in Russia. 

In the former Soviet Union, people deferred to the whim of the government.  We are getting to that point again.  The  reverse sanctions essentially create an embargo on foreign food stuffs.  The investment in transportation and health care was conducted by foreign banks.  For those of you who read Chekhov, this is a truly Dreary Story.  It reminds me that the country is a figurative Uncle Vanya, floating around aimlessly while Putin tries to construct a rambling house of a superpower around a flailing useless life.  So enters Russia into the harshest of winters.  Somehow, I think this would be an age that Chekhov would love to write about.

Sorry.  I get carried away when I read my favorite authors.  Pushkin is much more upbeat.  They have a Pushkin amusement park for little children right in the middle of Nikolaev (Mykolaiv).  It is a very happy place.  Someday I'll pull out the pictures.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 18, 2014, 01:32:14 PM
The Russian people are suffering worse than the Ukrainians.  They will suffer more and they deserve it.  They do not listen to the truth and instead believe the words of murderous scoundrel and that is the nicest thing I can say about the Russian president.

He also has earned an internationally earned moniker.  High time we be allowed to use it here.


I wish you would stop posting nonsense.


The Russian people are NOT suffering worse than Ukrainians. And if they suffer, well, they are used to it. Big Fcuking deal.


Also, every major country have their own murdering scoundrel that they adore.


And finally, whatsa matter with you? You imply huilo but don't type it? What gives?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 18, 2014, 01:54:57 PM
Here's a little tidbit from a Russian analyst.


The impact of the currency crash on Russian foreign policy
The Russian currency crash on Monday and Tuesday is likely to reduce the chances for Russian leaders to initiate new foreign adventures and may well result in efforts to make a deal on Ukraine. Vladimir Putin and his allies realize that in an economic downturn, they won’t have the financial resources to undertake efforts to destabilize other neighboring states. Instead, we should be looking for Russia to undertake some retrenchment, with Putin to try to calm things down a bit in the hope that he can persuade EU states to allow the sanctions they have in place against Russia to expire. This would allow for market sentiment to improve somewhat, which Russian leaders hope would allow the ruble to strengthen even if continuing U.S. sectoral sanctions mean that a corporate liquidity crisis is inevitable.
 
Russian leaders recognize that for European sanctions to end, the conflict in eastern Ukraine needs to be resolved. It is no coincidence that the situation in the Donbas has been calmer in recent days than at any time since last spring. While I imagine that neither the Russian nor European sides at this point know exactly what it would take to call off the sanctions regime, Russian leaders may be hoping that even a partial stabilization of the conflict may be enough to prevent EU member states from reaching consensus on renewing the sectoral and financial sanctions that are particularly economically painful to both sides and that are due to expire in July and August 2015.
 
Given this analysis, one might be surprised that Putin didn’t express more of an intent to compromise in his press conference today. But anyone expecting a soft line in this forum doesn’t understand how Putin operates. The press conference is first and foremost a PR opportunity for a domestic audience. In such a forum, he has to maintain his position in order to reassure his base that he’s not changing course. Even if he wanted to compromise, he wouldn’t announce it at the press conference. In fact, I doubt that he’d announce it publicly at all.
 
Instead, we should watch Russian actions in coming weeks/months. They will provide a better indication of Putin’s next move(s). But at the same time, I don’t expect much more in the next few months than an effort to avoid further escalation. I think that for now the leadership thinks it can still wait this out, that oil prices will rise sometime in 2015, that the EU will fail to agree to renew sanctions next summer. This is not 1998. Russia has the reserves to wait out the hard times, if they only last a year or two.


http://russiamil.wordpress.com/2014/12/18/the-impact-of-the-currency-crash-on-russian-foreign-policy/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 18, 2014, 02:22:45 PM
Obama says he has passed new sanctions against Russia into law,but will wait to impose them on Russia to calibrate them with new EU sanctions against Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 18, 2014, 03:46:11 PM
Looks like we are screwing ourselves in the process...another crazy day in the stock market...the end result... down another 100+ points again today, after being up 250 at one point...Our economy is showing some frailness, although I do think/hope it will recover.


The US stock market is up over 700 points in the last two days, which is just one reason why it's not a good idea to try to time the market.  And it doesn't look very frail, at least not yet.   :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 18, 2014, 04:30:59 PM

I wish you would stop posting nonsense.


The Russian people are NOT suffering worse than Ukrainians. And if they suffer, well, they are used to it. Big Fcuking deal.


Also, every major country have their own murdering scoundrel that they adore.


And finally, whatsa matter with you? You imply huilo but don't type it? What gives?

The moderators threatened me and others for use of that word in describing the Russian President

So just to clarify, you do or do not ascribe Russian complicity to Putin crimes.  I need to know because if you agree with Mendy then Nuremberg is meaningless.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 18, 2014, 04:31:45 PM
Putin palace coup in Russia is impossible, because there palaces

Russian President Vladimir Putin assured that rebellion against him would not be

He said at news conference, reports Espreso.TV ,

"Calm down, we will not palace coups, because we do not have palaces"

"The Kremlin is well protected and it is a factor of stability of the state" - said Putin.

http://espreso.tv/news/2014/12/18/putin_palacovyy_perevorot_v_rosiyi_nemozhlyvyy__bo_nema_palaciv
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 18, 2014, 05:10:33 PM
Hey, AC,

Your new avatar?  Is that your current squeeze?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 18, 2014, 05:16:06 PM
BTW, dollar is 61 rubles today, so it is getting better

Rapid declines usually overshoot fair value.  The question is whether this is a dead cat bounce

Currency markets can be influenced by insiders, especially if the Russian Central Bank is actively involved in speculation as Jone disclosed (I did not know that).   Perhaps it is inside speculators playing the general public, stampeding them to sell their rubble  for dollars to avoid perceived risk.  Perhaps it is major Russian corporations having to pay their dollar debt. 

We know only one fact: there are more sellers than buyers.

Are there any statistics on the volume of currency exchange as there are with stock sales?   If the volume is not high, this would smell of some Russian insiders.    I avoid currency market because it is a zero sum game and there are big traders much smarter than me.   And for the case of Russia quite possibly the dealers are controlling the throttle. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 18, 2014, 05:18:13 PM
Here's a little tidbit from a Russian analyst.


The impact of the currency crash on Russian foreign policy


Instead, we should watch Russian actions in coming weeks/months. They will provide a better indication of Putin’s next move(s). But at the same time, I don’t expect much more in the next few months than an effort to avoid further escalation. I think that for now the leadership thinks it can still wait this out, that oil prices will rise sometime in 2015, that the EU will fail to agree to renew sanctions next summer. This is not 1998. Russia has the reserves to wait out the hard times, if they only last a year or two.


http://russiamil.wordpress.com/2014/12/18/the-impact-of-the-currency-crash-on-russian-foreign-policy/
I do not agree that Russia has the  reserves to last that long--  in 6 months at the current rate the supposed reserves will be minimal and critical.  The previously stated number was approx 785 B  -- but in fact about 50% of that not actually available.The spending of recent times has eaten severely into those existing reserves.
As the author says-- Putin will keep trying to bluff it out-even if only for internal consumption.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 18, 2014, 05:34:41 PM
Damn, I thought at least one reader would comment and endorse my 'Long Winter' Chekhov quote. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 18, 2014, 05:37:19 PM
Damn, I thought at least one reader would comment and endorse my 'Long Winter' Chekhov quote.

Hey-we all read it!1 I smirked-that good enough? Or you want applause with standing ovation !! :clapping: :welcome:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 18, 2014, 05:39:51 PM
Hey, AC,

Your new avatar?  Is that your current squeeze?

Yes, my current squeeze is a famous Czech model.   ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 18, 2014, 05:43:21 PM
Yes, my current squeeze is a famous Czech model.   ;D

Is that an inet relationship?  Or real life imagination !! ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 18, 2014, 05:44:26 PM
Is that an inet relationship?  Or real life imagination !! ;D


I'm dating her twin sister.   :P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 18, 2014, 05:45:21 PM
Yes, my current squeeze is a famous Czech model.   ;D

Named Skoda?  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 18, 2014, 05:47:05 PM
Named Skoda?  :D

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=denise+milani&qpvt=denise+milani


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 18, 2014, 05:49:45 PM
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=denise+milani&qpvt=denise+milani

I wonder how much the superstructure cost!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 18, 2014, 06:21:01 PM
I wonder how much the superstructure cost!

Who needs economic sanctions?  Just unleash a few enhanced femen bots like her on Putin during the next summit and watch the guy blow a gasket! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 19, 2014, 01:44:05 AM
Quote
I need to know because if you agree with Mendy then Nuremberg is meaningless.

Oh dear.

LT, I've been very clear on my support for Ukraine in this matter, and at great personal cost I'd add. I just have the ability to see and know many fine Russian people, in addition to those for whom I have incalculably deep disagreements. There are some Ukrainians in the East for whom I have great disagreements, also.

I also have first hand knowledge of living and working in a dictatorship, and how that can shape those who are unfortunate enough to be trapped inside. Your view that people long to be free and simply choose to be misled, instead of breaking out in revolt, is naive. I do recall that it took almost 80 years to throw off the Soviet yoke.

To say that Nuremberg is meaningless is a silly statement, and you are especially far off course when attempting to pin that viewpoint on myself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 19, 2014, 02:02:31 AM
I'm not sure where to put this documentary film on youtube about the Ilovaisk tragedy which I just found.  It's in German and Russian; not English.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4d64CXIMA


This link is in English, but from a different source.


http://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/battle-ilovaisk-details-massacre-inside-rebel-held-eastern-ukraine-282003.html






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 19, 2014, 02:23:16 AM
The outflow of funds that invest in assets Russia increased by week to 381.6 million

Детальніше читайте на УНІАН: http://economics.unian.ua/stockmarket/1023665-z-rosiyskogo-rinku-prodovjuyut-vivoditi-aktivi-za-tijden-vidtik-zris-u-3-razi.html

Investors of the week from 11 to 17 December brought with funds focused on Russian assets, 381.6 million (0.93% of assets under management) in flight against 125.7 million the previous week (0.29% of assets under management) reports Prime.

The outflow is the fifth consecutive week, according to the Emerging Portfolio Fund Research (EPFR), presented the report of "Sberbank CIB."

READ MORE analysts talking about the deep recession of 2015

 

On the Russian market continue to withdraw assets - a week spent $ 381 mln
Детальніше читайте на УНІАН: http://economics.unian.ua/stockmarket/1023665-z-rosiyskogo-rinku-prodovjuyut-vivoditi-aktivi-za-tijden-vidtik-zris-u-3-razi.html



UNIAN reported earlier, the CBR raised its forecast on capital outflows in 2015 to 120 billion dollars from 99 billion dollars .

In mid-November, the CBR raised its forecast for 2014 by the outflow - from 90 billion to 128 billion dollars.

According to the latest forecasts Economic Development, capital outflows from Russia in 2014 could range from 90 billion to 120 billion dollars.

During the first half of 2014 reached 74.6 billion outflow of dollars from them in the first quarter - 48.8 billion dollars in the second - 25.8 billion dollars.
Детальніше читайте на УНІАН: http://economics.unian.ua/stockmarket/1023665-z-rosiyskogo-rinku-prodovjuyut-vivoditi-aktivi-za-tijden-vidtik-zris-u-3-razi.html

http://economics.unian.ua/stockmarket/1023665-z-rosiyskogo-rinku-prodovjuyut-vivoditi-aktivi-za-tijden-vidtik-zris-u-3-razi.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 19, 2014, 02:52:43 AM
A good piece of political analytics. I can agree with conclusions George Friedman from Stratfor made after visiting Moscow.
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/viewing-russia-inside#axzz3MKsEwq00
Some excerpts:
Quote
Russians' Economic Expectations

I thought the economic problems of Russia would be foremost on people's minds. The plunge of the ruble, the decline in oil prices, a general slowdown in the economy and the effect of Western sanctions all appear in the West to be hammering the Russian economy. Yet this was not the conversation I was having. The decline in the ruble has affected foreign travel plans, but the public has only recently begun feeling the real impact of these factors, particularly through inflation.

But there was another reason given for the relative calm over the financial situation, and it came not only from government officials but also from private individuals and should be considered very seriously. The Russians pointed out that economic shambles was the norm for Russia, and prosperity the exception. There is always the expectation that prosperity will end and the normal constrictions of Russian poverty return.
....

The Ukrainian Issue

There was much more toughness on Ukraine. There is acceptance that events in Ukraine were a reversal for Russia and resentment that the Obama administration mounted what Russians regard as a propaganda campaign to try to make it appear that Russia was the aggressor. Two points were regularly made. The first was that Crimea was historically part of Russia and that it was already dominated by the Russian military under treaty. There was no invasion but merely the assertion of reality. Second, there was heated insistence that eastern Ukraine is populated by Russians and that as in other countries, those Russians must be given a high degree of autonomy. One scholar pointed to the Canadian model and Quebec to show that the West normally has no problem with regional autonomy for ethnically different regions but is shocked that the Russians might want to practice a form of regionalism commonplace in the West.

The case of Kosovo is extremely important to the Russians both because they feel that their wishes were disregarded there and because it set a precedent. Years after the fall of the Serbian government that had threatened the Albanians in Kosovo, the West granted Kosovo independence. The Russians argued that the borders were redrawn although no danger to Kosovo existed. Russia didn't want it to happen, but the West did it because it could. In the Russian view, having redrawn the map of Serbia, the West has no right to object to redrawing the map of Ukraine.

I try not to be drawn into matters of right and wrong, not because I don't believe there is a difference but because history is rarely decided by moral principles. I have understood the Russians' view of Ukraine as a necessary strategic buffer and the idea that without it they would face a significant threat, if not now, then someday.
...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 19, 2014, 04:26:22 AM
Statement by the President on the Ukraine Freedom Support Act
Today, I have signed H.R. 5859, the Ukraine Freedom Support Act of 2014, into law. Signing this legislation does not signal a change in the Administration?s sanctions policy, which we have carefully calibrated in accordance with developments on the ground and coordinated with our allies and partners.  At this time, the Administration does not intend to impose sanctions under this law, but the Act gives the Administration additional authorities that could be utilized, if circumstances warranted.

My Administration will continue to work closely with allies and partners in Europe and internationally to respond to developments in Ukraine and will continue to review and calibrate our sanctions to respond to Russia's actions. We again call on Russia to end its occupation and attempted annexation of Crimea, cease support to separatists in eastern Ukraine, and implement the obligations it signed up to under the Minsk agreements.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/12/18/statement-president-ukraine-freedom-support-act
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 19, 2014, 04:36:39 AM
You can say its a silly statement.  You profess your credentials.  But you haven't addressed my argument.  When you excuse the Russian population from the Russian President's crimes, you make Nuremberg and the idea of collective guilt useless.  I am in contact with the Opposition.  The opposition is excused from his crimes, his supporters and the indifferent are not.  The facts of who Mr. Putin is and what he has done are known as evidence by the presence of videos made by Russian opposition figures.  There's plenty of blame here - the West deserves some of this guilt for ignoring alarms about this man's behavior sooner.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 08:11:24 AM
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2636177
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 08:12:38 AM
You can say its a silly statement.  You profess your credentials.  But you haven't addressed my argument.  When you excuse the Russian population from the Russian President's crimes, you make Nuremberg and the idea of collective guilt useless.  I am in contact with the Opposition.  The opposition is excused from his crimes, his supporters and the indifferent are not.  The facts of who Mr. Putin is and what he has done are known as evidence by the presence of videos made by Russian opposition figures.  There's plenty of blame here - the West deserves some of this guilt for ignoring alarms about this man's behavior sooner.
Poroshenko will be first to show up in Nuremberg
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 08:18:19 AM
Oh dear.

LT, I've been very clear on my support for Ukraine in this matter, and at great personal cost I'd add. I just have the ability to see and know many fine Russian people, in addition to those for whom I have incalculably deep disagreements. There are some Ukrainians in the East for whom I have great disagreements, also.

I also have first hand knowledge of living and working in a dictatorship, and how that can shape those who are unfortunate enough to be trapped inside. Your view that people long to be free and simply choose to be misled, instead of breaking out in revolt, is naive. I do recall that it took almost 80 years to throw off the Soviet yoke.

To say that Nuremberg is meaningless is a silly statement, and you are especially far off course when attempting to pin that viewpoint on myself.


Mendy, you didn't need to justify yourself to this clown. I think every rational man would understand what you have been saying.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 08:21:33 AM
Porosheno will be first to show up in Nuremberg


I'm sorry dear, but you must be confusing Poroshenko with Yanukonvict.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 09:07:13 AM

I'm sorry dear, but you must be confusing Poroshenko with Yanukonvict.
Poroshenko is killing his countrymates, Yanukonvict killed nobody
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 19, 2014, 09:10:43 AM
No, Doll.  Your countrymen are killing the Ukrainians.  Everyone on here seems to know that but you.  Your kneejerk responses are becoming tiresome.  And your lack of understanding of how the world works, where you said that the the Russian Central Bank was owned by the Americans just continues to demonstrate this to the readership.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 19, 2014, 09:25:08 AM
Poroshenko will be first to show up in Nuremberg

 Yah as a witness for the prosecution.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 19, 2014, 09:34:11 AM
This morning I saw an interesting business interview with Tom Friedman (author of The World is Flat), Foreign Affairs columnist with the NY Times.  He is a bold liberal. 

He certainly was bold and unkind in his opinions of Putin.

He said "Putin woke up on third base and believes he hit a triple."  He called Putin a "towering fool" for the damage he has done to Russia's economy.   It makes for a good domestic propaganda that Putin had to intervene into Ukraine because of  NATO expansion.  Putin's real reason was to stop Ukraine from joining the EU.  Ukraine could realize the same economic success as Poland, and meanwhile if Russia faltered even with its oil reserves, the Russian people would see Putin and his henchmen as a kleptocracy.  Big trouble. 

He expects Putin will continue to do what he has been doing.  Incursions and interventions along the border are Putin's "one day sugar highs."   In summary, he said Russia is nothing more than a third world country with an undiversified,  commodity driven economy, and  ruled by a dictator with 50,000 nukes.  Danger ahead. 

Two months ago he wrote a column in NY Times about Putin, calling him a "first-class jerk and thug."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/22/opinion/thomas-friedman-putin-and-the-pope.html?_r=0



 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: RoboCop on December 19, 2014, 09:35:52 AM
A forum dedicated to the discussion of Russian and FSU women, has been hijacked by the discussion discussion of Russian and Ukrainian politics.

Perhaps RWD, should be renamed Russian Politics Discussion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
No, Doll.  Your countrymen are killing the Ukrainians.  Everyone on here seems to know that but you.  Your kneejerk responses are becoming tiresome.  And your lack of understanding of how the world works, where you said that the the Russian Central Bank was owned by the Americans just continues to demonstrate this to the readership.
Evidence?
Speaking of lack of understanding- it is your opinion.
Russian CB is owned by the USA
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 19, 2014, 09:54:16 AM
A forum dedicated to the discussion of Russian and FSU women, has been hijacked by the discussion discussion of Russian and Ukrainian politics.

Perhaps RWD, should be renamed Russian Politics Discussion.

I assert that the general topic, especially Putin, is relevant to understanding FSU culture and women, particularly the political future.  I agree that many posts are fluff (IMO) and some consider my posts as fluff, yet that is the way it is. 

BTW, does your wife have anything to say about Putin?  Any opinions about what Putin may attempt in Azerbaijan?

Also, there are some active "AM meets/marries RW" threads.  They receive attention.  Anyone could focus their reading on them by looking in the appropriate Married, Experienced and Starting Out subforum.   

I am uncertain whether there are as many men today making a trip versus a few years ago.  If so, that could explain the shift.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 19, 2014, 10:12:34 AM
Evidence?
Speaking of lack of understanding- it is your opinion.
Russian CB is owned by the USA

No.  It is not my opinion.  It is a fact that Russians are killing Ukrainians.  It is a fact that Ukraine would have ousted the separatists from their country, mainly paid mercenaries, if Russia hadn't intervened.  It is a fact that trucks travel back under the guise of mercy runs when they are really returning with Russian corpses.  And it is a fact that many mothers in Russia will never see their sons again.  It is a supreme slap in the face to these  families of young Russian men, who gave their lives for their country, that you, a Russian, won't even acknowledge their presence in Ukraine.

And as you can see by my posts, I don't sit there and post links.  You are attempting to convince a forum comprised of mostly men in their 30s through 70s through comments that they all know are false.  You better bring a little more to the table than your kneejerk reactions. 

I grow tired of your responses, Doll.  You are now on IGNORE.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 10:25:32 AM
No.  It is not my opinion.  It is a fact that Russians are killing Ukrainians.  It is a fact that Ukraine would have ousted the separatists from their country, mainly paid mercenaries, if Russia hadn't intervened.  It is a fact that trucks travel back under the guise of mercy runs when they are really returning with Russian corpses.  And it is a fact that many mothers in Russia will never see their sons again.  It is a supreme slap in the face to these  families of young Russian men, who gave their lives for their country, that you, a Russian, won't even acknowledge their presence in Ukraine.

And as you can see by my posts, I don't sit there and post links.  You are attempting to convince a forum comprised of mostly men in their 30s through 70s through comments that they all know are false.  You better bring a little more to the table than your kneejerk reactions. 

I grow tired of your responses, Doll.  You are now on IGNORE.
evidence?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 10:36:39 AM

And as you can see by my posts, I don't sit there and post links.  You are attempting to convince a forum comprised of mostly men in their 30s through 70s through comments that they all know are false.  You better bring a little more to the table than your kneejerk reactions. 

I grow tired of your responses, Doll.  You are now on IGNORE.
I am posting what I want to post and NOT what you or "men in their 30s through 70s "
want to read.
I asked for evidence- you in a typical American manner "put me on ignore".
Dare to provide the evidence?
Department of States doesn't have the evidence. I read almost all of its briefings.
So, just a reminder- nobody tells me what to write here, got it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 19, 2014, 10:39:53 AM
evidence?

 How about 4000 dead Muscovi soldiers in unmarked graves?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 10:43:17 AM
How about 4000 dead Muscovi soldiers in unmarked graves?
Show me.
(What is "Muscovi"?))))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 19, 2014, 10:45:01 AM
I grow tired of your responses, Doll.  You are now on IGNORE.

That's funny.

Doll: Where is your evidence? Show me the evidence!
Jone: Everybody knows that.  You are now on IGNORE.

Frankly speaking I have no wish to argue about RU-UA conflict because only Boethius can keep it with knowedge on the subject. Others just have no access to first hand info, and inenvitably have to tramsmitt propaganda as John does.

This morning I saw an interesting business interview with Tom Friedman (author of The World is Flat), Foreign Affairs columnist with the NY Times.  He is a bold liberal. 

He certainly was bold and unkind in his opinions of Putin.

Gator, are you really read columnists? :o
Your words about Tom Friedman have reminded me the old soviet joke.
American and Russian dispute about freedom of speech.
А.: I can come to the central square in Washington and cry: Reagan is fool!
R.: OK, I can do it too, come to the Red Square and cry: Reagan is fool!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 19, 2014, 10:47:53 AM
How about 4000 dead Muscovi soldiers in unmarked graves?

I have read about 20000 dead Russian soldiers.  :D
As a matter of fact there are some facts to talk about 21 Russian men in service who may be killed in Ukraina on mission.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 19, 2014, 10:54:11 AM
That's funny.

Doll: Where is your evidence? Show me the evidence!
Jone: Everybody knows that.  You are now on IGNORE.

Frankly speaking I have no wish to argue about RU-UA conflict because only Boethius can keep it with knowedge on the subject. Others just have no access to first hand info, and inenvitably have to tramsmitt propaganda as John does.

Gator, are you really read columnists? :o
Your words about Tom Friedman have reminded me the old soviet joke.
American and Russian dispute about freedom of speech.
А.: I can come to the central square in Washington and cry: Reagan is fool!
R.: OK, I can do it too, come to the Red Square and cry: Reagan is fool!

Quite honestly, Belvis:

I don't think its funny at all that young Russian men are coming home in coffins.  Are you going to disavow their presence, and deaths, as well, in Ukraine?  What a tragic slap in the face!

Acknowledge the tragedy and support, if you can, the political idealism that puts them there.  But don't ignore the sacrifice these young men have made.  While their contributions to your country may or may not have been misguided, you are without honor if you cannot support the fact that they died in an effort to advance the policies of your country.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 10:55:16 AM
Frankly speaking I have no wish to argue about RU-UA conflict because only Boethius can keep it with knowedge on the subject. Others just have no access to first hand info, and inenvitably have to tramsmitt propaganda as John does.

 
Where does Boe take her "first hand infor"?
From Putin, Poroshenko and Obama, I guess :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 19, 2014, 10:57:40 AM
I am posting what I want to post and NOT what you or "men in their 30s through 70s "
want to read.
I asked for evidence- you in a typical American manner "put me on ignore".
Dare to provide the evidence?
Department of States doesn't have the evidence. I read almost all of its briefings.
So, just a reminder- nobody tells me what to write here, got it?
Very good Doll!!  It is hilarious when people tearfully and publicly announce that they are ignoring you, rather than just doing it without the fanfare.  Maybe hone is waiting for a round if applause.

 You are completely correct to give your viewpoint,  whether some of these members want to hear it or not. It would seem for some your dissent is not tolerable.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 11:07:34 AM
Belvis and I are the only "opposing" Russians on this board. We know both sides of the propaganda or information (whatever you want to call it).
I bet nobody here besides me read Department of States briefings. I do.
Every time there are questions to provide the evidence - the journalists are basically ignored (like "next question please").
Or they refer to YouTube or Facebook. :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 19, 2014, 12:27:46 PM
I have read about 20000 dead Russian soldiers.  :D
As a matter of fact there are some facts to talk about 21 Russian men in service who may be killed in Ukraina on mission.

So, you've discounted all of those fresh graves from the 76th Paratroopers in Pskov.   (Two days after the funerals, the FSB came through and pulled off all of the grave markers.  I wonder why!)   

Hey, it's not my country!  And I, like most other investors, took a hit and pulled my investments out of your land.  But only 21 deaths?  Quite honestly, the more you post, the more you sound like the trolls who appear on these websites to dispute everything negative said about Russia.  Were you to give an honest evaluation, from a Russian point of view, and you sound like a smart guy, then you would have much more credibility.  Even if you are a paid troll.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 12:45:22 PM
Poroshenko is killing his countrymates, Yanukonvict killed nobody


Again, you must be very confused. Russians are killing Ukrainians.


Last I saw, Poroshenko is Ukrainian.


Funny, the last conversation my MIL had with her brother who lives in Omsk, HE stated he was so furious that he would pick up a gun and fight the NAZI junta. Then his sister told him that there is NO NAZI junta and that she is on the side of the government. Then she asked him point blank if he would go to Kharkiv and kill her. He implied he would.


This is what your Ministry of Propaganda is doing, dear.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 12:47:00 PM

Again, you must be very confused. Russians are killing Ukrainians.


Last I saw, Poroshenko is Ukrainian.


 
Evidence?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 12:48:24 PM
This morning I saw an interesting business interview with Tom Friedman (author of The World is Flat), Foreign Affairs columnist with the NY Times.  He is a bold liberal.




Heh, if you truly believe this, then I'm afraid to ask your definition of a Conservative.  Yeee ikes!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 12:51:07 PM
Evidence?


He is the President, isn't he?


Am I under the misconception that the Ukraine Constitution allows only Ukrainian citizens to be President, or did they changed that?


Any comments about my mother-in-law's brother? THAT was the opinion I wanted to hear from you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 12:52:29 PM
A forum dedicated to the discussion of Russian and FSU women, has been hijacked by the discussion discussion of Russian and Ukrainian politics.

Perhaps RWD, should be renamed Russian Politics Discussion.


Why don't you start a thread of Russian women's tits and asses?


Edit: It is obvious you don't buy the Playboy for its articles.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 12:56:13 PM

He is the President, isn't he?


Am I under the misconception that the Ukraine Constitution allows only Ukrainian citizens to be President, or did they changed that?


Any comments about my mother-in-law's brother? THAT was the opinion I wanted to hear from you.
Evidence of Russians killing Ukrainians.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 12:57:15 PM
That's funny.

Doll: Where is your evidence? Show me the evidence!
Jone: Everybody knows that.  You are now on IGNORE.

Frankly speaking I have no wish to argue about RU-UA conflict because only Boethius can keep it with knowedge on the subject. Others just have no access to first hand info, and inenvitably have to tramsmitt propaganda as John does.



Oh Beavis, and you do have the knowledge on this subject just because you are Russian, right? Do you know the term Jingoism?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 12:58:07 PM
Evidence of Russians killing Ukrainians.


Your opinion of my mother-in-law's brother.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 12:59:27 PM

Oh Beavis, and you do have the knowledge on this subject just because you are Russian, right? Do you know the term Jingoism?
He didn't' say it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 01:02:22 PM
He didn't' say it.


He didn't say, what?


And why you cannot give me your opinion of what my mother-in-law's brother said.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2014, 01:05:34 PM

He didn't say, what?


 
He didn't say he knows the truth just because he is Russian.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 01:12:23 PM
He didn't say he knows the truth just because he is Russian.


Why you refuse to answer my question?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 01:12:58 PM
Ah yes. Maybe because you agree with her brother.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 19, 2014, 01:21:57 PM
I am going to reverse myself and include a link, here: 

http://web.archive.org/web/20140902154652/http:/gubernia.pskovregion.org/number_706/00.php

I would go to the original source, but the original source was deleted, apparently with the guy who wrote it:  The editor of the Pskov region newspaper.  I will let the article speak for itself.  I'm sure our Russian detractors will call it propaganda, as they are wont to do.  But I find the source entirely credible.  Both the editor and the young man who's tapes he received clandestinely from the returning soldiers.  Neither would have any reason to lie.  There would be no motivation. 

For those non-readers of the Russian language, in the article, one of the correspondents concludes that there were 80 dead in the early fighting to repel the UA troops.  This was clearly before the insurgence of Russian tanks and personnel that appeared less than a month later.  (I should note that the 80 dead pretty much corresponds with the new graves found in the cemetery).  The author of the tapes, who is a young paratrooper, has subsequently disappeared.

It should also be noted that any journalists who tried to find out what happened to the 76th were roughed up and told to leave the area.  Those who did not were escorted to the forest where they were beaten up pretty badly.  Ultimately, there are families of the dead who have shared about what happened.  As any truth comes out, these families, if they are revealed, are terrorized for their revelations.  This is the new Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 19, 2014, 02:00:21 PM
Evidence of Russians killing Ukrainians.

Strelkov is your evidence...

Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine

Russian Involvement

Strelkov also gave an account of the degree of Russia's involvement in the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

At the start of this summer, 90 percent of the rebel forces were made up of local residents, Strelkov was quoted as saying. However, by early August, Russian servicemen supposedly on "vacation" from the army had begun to arrive, he said.

According to Strelkov, the assault on the Black Sea town of Mariupol in September, which prompted concerns in Ukraine and the West that Russia has entered the conflict on a large scale, was conducted mostly by the Russian military "vacationers."

The rebel forces advancing on Mariupol at that time met with little resistance from government troops and "could have been taken without a fight, "but there was an order not to take it," he was quoted as saying.

While Moscow has repeatedly denied supplying the rebels with weaponry and manpower, Strelkov said the assistance offered to rebels remains significant: "I can't say that we fully provide for them. But we are really helping them," he said, noting that half of the rebel army was equipped with winter clothes sent from Russia.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine/511584.html

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 19, 2014, 02:07:25 PM
But only 21 deaths?  Quite honestly, the more you post, the more you sound like the trolls who appear on these websites to dispute everything negative said about Russia.  Were you to give an honest evaluation, from a Russian point of view, and you sound like a smart guy, then you would have much more credibility.  Even if you are a paid troll.

OK, may 30 deaths. I'm talking about the fresh graves you mentioned. I don't dispute everything negative said about Russia, I'm asking to show the credible sources.  Can you?
Well, the talk about trolls can't be counted for the argument, agree?  :)
You have refered to russian jornalists. I can't accept their writings because:

1) The main source about many-many dead Russian soldiers,  human right activist Elena Vasileva, was exposed  as a liar when she listed the names of killed soldiers. Her list turned to be  the Orenburg local football team “Gazovik” players.  Then she wrote about killed Russian combat swimmers near Mariupol and again with names. Well, she just copied the names from fantastic book of Alexander Bushkov about combat divers. You see, why the thousands dead Russian soldiers in Ukraine  have became the source for jokes in russian social network.

2) You have refered to the article of  another activist, Shlosseberg, where he presented info about russian servicemen in Ukraine. But the same source is talking about American brigade of  electronic warfare at Donbass. Will you accept that Americans GIs are taking part in figthing?  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 19, 2014, 02:25:09 PM
That's funny.

Doll: Where is your evidence? Show me the evidence!
Jone: Everybody knows that.  You are now on IGNORE.


I've got to agree with that.  The old saying about doing nothing and allowing evil to flourish comes to mind.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 19, 2014, 02:30:08 PM
OK, may 30 deaths. I'm talking about the fresh graves you mentioned. I don't dispute everything negative said about Russia, I'm asking to show the credible sources.  Can you?
Well, the talk about trolls can't be counted for the argument, agree?  :)
You have refered to russian jornalists. I can't accept their writings because:

1) The main source about many-many dead Russian soldiers,  human right activist Elena Vasileva, was exposed  as a liar when she listed the names of killed soldiers. Her list turned to be  the Orenburg local football team “Gazovik” players.  Then she wrote about killed Russian combat swimmers near Mariupol and again with names. Well, she just copied the names from fantastic book of Alexander Bushkov about combat divers. You see, why the thousands dead Russian soldiers in Ukraine  have became the source for jokes in russian social network.

2) You have refered to the article of  another activist, Shlosseberg, where he presented info about russian servicemen in Ukraine. But the same source is talking about American brigade of  electronic warfare at Donbass. Will you accept that Americans GIs are taking part in figthing?  :D

You just don't get it, do you.  You are trying to elude the fact that Russian soldiers are dying in Ukraine.  You immediately jump all over sources I have not mentioned.  Instead, give credibility to the dead.  I saw the interviews on TV of the wife of a young Russian soldier from the 76th.   Do you close your eyes to those?   These are heros of Russia.  They gave their lives for your country.  You make yourself into a troll, Belvis, by ignoring the elephant in the room.

This is a classic troll function.  Try to get the poster to identify a post and then discredit it.  You have all the markings of a paid Kremlin troll.  The simple fact is that Russian soldiers are dying. 

The other markings of a troll is to immediately say that the CIA is over in the streets outside of Donetsk.  Frankly, I don't know.  I haven't seen any evidence either way.  It wouldn't surprise me if they were.  I just don't care.  I am on record of not wanting the US to give support to Ukraine in the form of personnel.  I really believe that having US feet on the ground in Ukraine would exacerbate the situation.

But, here is where I differ with all that you say:  You say that the Western press all pushes the propaganda line.  I read countless articles of fact by many members of the British and American press and even Al Jazzera that confirm my assertions.  Your only efforts to discredit me are from heresy.  RT and even Sputnik are following the Kremlin line. 

Essentially, everyone else is wrong and Russia is right.  That is how you come across.  Whether you are paid or not, Belvis, I really don't care.  Your perspective is that of a lie. 

I put up a local newspaper from Pskov.  There was absolutely NO reason to dispute it.    You come back on here like gangbusters trying to discredit it.  That either makes you a liar or makes you crazy.  Or maybe it is just that that is your job to dispute.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 19, 2014, 02:37:00 PM
Poroshenko will be first to show up in Nuremberg

Now that would be interesting, because Poroshenko is Jewish.  In fact Ukraine's government probably has more Jews than most governments in Europe do.  So much for a "fascist junta".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 19, 2014, 02:38:17 PM
evidence?


Jon--I post links to articles and information that most would not see  -- why?-- to avoid the sort of silly obtuse--"yes it is"-- no it isn't" type posts like Doll's above.

What is obvious to me--is that the pro-Rus   propagators don't read them--if any information that contradicts their pre-conceived ideas it is dismissed.

Really-- each and every one of you posters here who denies the obvious is really being very silly-- and a lot of forum space wasted on being kind to you.

Time for a few who post here to loo at what they were saying months ago-- and see how wrong they were then-- events are the proof.

Mende commented above that everyday Russians do not have access to contrary opinions -thus it hard for them to see the reality--but that is not the case with those on the forums--they have access but are in denial of the truth.Just being too silly for words.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 19, 2014, 02:41:53 PM

Why don't you start a thread of Russian women's tits and asses?



 :ROFL:  (I was actually thinking along the same lines; can you believe it?)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 19, 2014, 02:50:57 PM
You just don't get it, do you.  You are trying to elude the fact that Russian soldiers are dying in Ukraine.  You immediately jump all over sources I have not mentioned.  Instead, give credibility to the dead. 

Let them die.  Unfortunately enough have to die so that the Russian population will realize what a gigantic LIAR that Putin is and get rid of him.  Huilo can lie to the average person on the street but the mothers of these soldiers know different.  Many of the mothers are also telling their sons to refuse to serve under this tyrannical dictator. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 19, 2014, 03:39:16 PM
This photo is for Doll and Belvis but good for others to see as well.  The photo on the left was doctored for Russian public consumption, and the photo on the right shows as it actually was.


http://www.facebook.com/theministryofdefence.ua/photos/ms.c.eJxFktlxBEEIQzNyNTfkn5i9aIU~;X6kRGjFlGk8jzKtH5qfACW7ygIPc4Dw9W1Sd79OeeET9M3QnO~;QiF~;h0~_L883nljvlIw8xT8jfMR69d5OvyEXB~;u4f6Cv57~;7Hzql1uXg3ojf9Qx5o2cYO5r~_MX5oa~;rd2TzNOcH33d9z96na46h0296~;f07b~_~;hvR~;v~_1dk3MeajL4sybiH3Tz6Ss7Lgy7HH3~_Z09EX~_zRJcByvX3C~;ID~;7M4Vf008FzHyfU3~;mlRzQj7GP~;ZnufYX92V~;g1d~;x~_l1~;ZnjP7zfkvb4sofP7baBznyNvMq9vHz7c7w3mPsf89ePIy~;~;NYu~;l3cfQ~;Rfa18E1.bps.a.732502540145587.1073742116.207023122693534/732502553478919/?type=1&theater


http://www.facebook.com/theministryofdefence.ua?fref=photo

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 19, 2014, 03:51:35 PM
Information from Dmitry Timchuk about Hybrid warfare in general and in Ukraine in specific.

"In the case of Ukraine, it is seen very clearly. Between the summer 2013th until the end of February 2014 no one in the world and in Ukraine did not accept Russia's policy towards Ukraine as aggression - because of the lack of the military component. Even the beginning of the annexation of the Crimea is not immediately and not everyone in Ukraine perceive as the beginning of the military phase. Similarly, the events of April 2014 in the eastern regions of Ukraine is still not perceived as a war of Russia against Ukraine, and were classified as armed actions of the separatists and terrorists, against whom and started an anti-terrorist operation is still ongoing. In Europe, the war of Russia against Ukraine has not officially called aggression, preferring to use the term "Ukrainian-Russian crisis", "escalation of the east", "penetration". According to UN figures, 4,317 people were killed and 9.921 wounded during the war in the east of Ukraine from mid-April to November 18, 2014 [4]. Data for the dead and wounded include both military personnel and civilians. According to the Ukrainian The sides of this "war-not-war" has already claimed the lives of more than 2,000 Ukrainian voennosluzhazhih [5]. According to the Russian non-governmental organization "Union of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia" since the beginning of conflict in eastern Ukraine killed 1,500 Russian soldiers. [6] For comparison, according to official figures nine-year war in Afghanistan claimed the lives of 13.833 lives [7] Soviet soldiers and officers.

It can be stated that the Russian aggression against Ukraine in a hybrid form was the best option in terms of official non-recognition of it as such. 9 months after the beginning of the annexation of the Crimea, the EU doubted the presence of evidence of Russian troops on the territory of Ukraine. "In the EU, due to lack of" accurate information "is not willing to admit that in eastern Ukraine, the presence of Russian troops" [8] - this testimony European diplomat in an interview with Ukrainian agency UNIAN November 14, 2014 the same day, the commander of NATO forces in Europe General F.Bridlav said that "we see the column of Russian military equipment, especially tanks, artillery, air defense systems and infantry" includes the territory of Ukraine."


http://sprotyv.info/ru/news/10007-gibridnaya-voyna-v-vostochnoy-evrope-nevoennoe-izmerenie-energeticheskiy-komponent-chast



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 19, 2014, 04:00:33 PM
Strelkov is your evidence...

Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine

Russian Involvement

Strelkov also gave an account of the degree of Russia's involvement in the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

At the start of this summer, 90 percent of the rebel forces were made up of local residents, Strelkov was quoted as saying. However, by early August, Russian servicemen supposedly on "vacation" from the army had begun to arrive, he said.

According to Strelkov, the assault on the Black Sea town of Mariupol in September, which prompted concerns in Ukraine and the West that Russia has entered the conflict on a large scale, was conducted mostly by the Russian military "vacationers."

The rebel forces advancing on Mariupol at that time met with little resistance from government troops and "could have been taken without a fight, "but there was an order not to take it," he was quoted as saying.

While Moscow has repeatedly denied supplying the rebels with weaponry and manpower, Strelkov said the assistance offered to rebels remains significant: "I can't say that we fully provide for them. But we are really helping them," he said, noting that half of the rebel army was equipped with winter clothes sent from Russia.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine/511584.html

Brass

 :clapping:  Excellent post and analysis.  I don't know how the pro-Russian crowd can dispute this, but they are welcome to try.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 19, 2014, 04:10:02 PM

Gator, are you really read columnists? :o
Your words about Tom Friedman have reminded me the old soviet joke.
American and Russian dispute about freedom of speech.
А.: I can come to the central square in Washington and cry: Reagan is fool!
R.: OK, I can do it too, come to the Red Square and cry: Reagan is fool!


An oldie but a goodie.   :D :D :D

Maybe Putin will hire the North Koreans to cyber attack Tom Friedman.  OTOH, maybe Putin's people trained the North Koreans.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 19, 2014, 04:28:29 PM

Heh, if you truly believe this, then I'm afraid to ask your definition of a Conservative.  Yeee ikes!

LMAO

On the same basis, I can assume your definition of liberalism would give me palpitations.  .  ;)

Friedman was born and raised near Minneapolis.   What other evidence do you need?   ;D

He admitted today that he has been against the past expansion of NATO.   That's two.  Besides, don't bust my bubble.   I need to be able to say that I read liberal writings and have an open mind.  Regardless, his writings are creative, bold and intriguing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 19, 2014, 04:29:27 PM

Mendy, you didn't need to justify yourself to this clown. I think every rational man would understand what you have been saying.

If its so obvious why don't you tell us what he said and why he said it, if you can.

Nuremberg is useless if we excuse the Russian people
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 19, 2014, 04:32:16 PM

Why don't you start a thread of Russian women's tits and asses?


Too late!   Sandro has that one covered and trumped, replete with photographs of genitalia, in his thread Double Dealers.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 19, 2014, 04:36:03 PM
LMAO

On the same basis, I can assume your definition of liberalism would give me palpitations.  .  ;)

Friedman was born and raised near Minneapolis.   What other evidence do you need?   ;D

He admitted today that he has been against the past expansion of NATO.   That's two.  Besides, don't bust my bubble.   I need to be able to say that I read liberal writings and have an open mind.  Regardless, his writings are creative, bold and intriguing.


Heh, the bastion of American liberalism is/was Wisconsin. First union movement bordering on Socialism.


Can you spell Scott Walker?   ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 19, 2014, 04:41:54 PM

So, just a reminder- nobody tells me what to write here, got it?

Except the Kremlin Propaganda Ministry...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 19, 2014, 04:46:48 PM
If its so obvious why don't you tell us what he said and why he said it, if you can.

Nuremberg is useless if we excuse the Russian people
Mende was making the point that it is not the Russian people at large responsible--it is the leadership of Russia. Upthread it was discussed about the difficulties for ordinary Russians to have any input into the political process. So condemning all Russians is misguided .
You keep quoting history as if it supports your point-- using Nuremberg like you have is clearly wrong-

The Nuremberg trials were a series of military tribunals, held by the Allied forces after World War II, most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, and economic leadership of Nazi Germany.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 20, 2014, 08:37:44 AM
Germany paid reparations, lost territory, in short repented as a people.  Now they lead Europe.  Russia has yet to do that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 20, 2014, 10:38:03 AM
This page is not readable on my ipad because of the long links
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 20, 2014, 11:25:38 AM
This page is not readable on my ipad because of the long links

Don't you know better than to use an Ipad?  It was engineered by the CIA in conjunction with Apple to work against state enemies of the USA.   :devil:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 20, 2014, 11:30:42 AM
Ukrainian Cyber volunteers hack into Russian military server:


"Ukrainian cyber-volunteers, coordinated by a programmer by the name of Eugene Dokukin, published the first part of an information download, hacked from servers of Russian Federation Ministry of Internal Affairs in October 2014.

The 1.78 GB of archive documents were posted on multiple file storage to share. To download and read the full data revealed by hackers is possible at: Disk Google.

Among the body of documentation from the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs were several documents confirming the involvement of the security forces of Russia in the war in the east of Ukraine. While this war is called a `civil war’ by Russian propagandists and this evidence is additional information proofing that de facto terrorists actions in the Donbas are tightly coordinated and sponsored by the Russian Special Services.

In one of the emergency reports dated August 26, 2014 and addressed to the Chief Directorate of the MIA of Russia in Rostov Region Police Major General A. Larionov, is reported:

“On August 25, 2014 at around 3.50 pm the fact the following soldiers were injured – M. Polstyankinym, O.Volgin, A.Alekseev , A. Gerasimenko, from the Russian military unit №51182 extending service at Millerovo, during their clashes with the forces of the National Army of Ukraine, this occurred 10 km northwest from the village of Prohnoy, Tarasovskoye district. At 6.52 pm on August 25, 2014 wounded soldiers were evacuated to Rostov Garrison Hospital with a Mi-8 helicopter of the Russian Armed Forces “.


http://en.informnapalm.org/ukrainian-cyber-troops-hack-servers-russian-federation-evidence-russian-military-actions-revealed/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 20, 2014, 11:32:24 AM
That's true Doll.. They're reading everything you write.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 21, 2014, 05:30:26 PM
Oh dear.

LT, I've been very clear on my support for Ukraine in this matter, and at great personal cost I'd add. I just have the ability to see and know many fine Russian people, in addition to those for whom I have incalculably deep disagreements. There are some Ukrainians in the East for whom I have great disagreements, also.

I also have first hand knowledge of living and working in a dictatorship, and how that can shape those who are unfortunate enough to be trapped inside. Your view that people long to be free and simply choose to be misled, instead of breaking out in revolt, is naive.

While I don't agree with LT that the current situation in Russia is yet to be at the level of what happened to Germany during WWII and resulted in Nuremburg, I do wonder if the part that I bolded has been affecting your reporting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 21, 2014, 05:37:33 PM
Is the dam about to burst in Russia?  Is the financial situation there far worse than what any in the West think it is?


excerpt
"Traders in the City watched open-mouthed as the dam broke on Black Tuesday. The event exposed the awful reality that the Kremlin does not have the infinite foreign reserves that many had supposed. “What is happening is a nightmare that we could not even have imagined a year ago,” says the central bank’s deputy chief, Sergei Shvetsov.


The currency has since stabilised at 60 to the dollar. But it has lost half its value in a year. Russia’s $2.1 trillion (Ł1.3 trillion) economy has shrunk to $1.1 trillion, half the GDP of California.


The external debt of Russian banks and companies has by mathematical effect ballooned to 70pc of total output. “A Russian downgrade to junk is only a matter of time,” says Tim Ash, from Standard Bank."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11305146/The-week-the-dam-broke-in-Russia-and-ended-Putins-dreams.html




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 21, 2014, 05:41:42 PM
While I don't agree with LT that the current situation in Russia is yet to be at the level of what happened to Germany during WWII and resulted in Nuremburg, I do wonder if the part that I bolded has been affecting your reporting.

You have to understand how serious the issues guys like Mende are facing. I don't want to sound too dramatic--but Mende is no internet'warrior"--is issues are real life-- he does not have the luxury of not being in the 'frontline" and  zero accountability.

For anyone publishing anything that is not in accord with Kremlin propaganda the potential consequences are all to real.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 21, 2014, 05:47:27 PM
Is the dam about to burst in Russia?  Is the financial situation there far worse than what any in the West think it is?


excerpt
"Traders in the City watched open-mouthed as the dam broke on Black Tuesday. The event exposed the awful reality that the Kremlin does not have the infinite foreign reserves that many had supposed. “What is happening is a nightmare that we could not even have imagined a year ago,” says the central bank’s deputy chief, Sergei Shvetsov.


The currency has since stabilised at 60 to the dollar. But it has lost half its value in a year. Russia’s $2.1 trillion (Ł1.3 trillion) economy has shrunk to $1.1 trillion, half the GDP of California.


The external debt of Russian banks and companies has by mathematical effect ballooned to 70pc of total output. “A Russian downgrade to junk is only a matter of time,” says Tim Ash, from Standard Bank."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11305146/The-week-the-dam-broke-in-Russia-and-ended-Putins-dreams.html

Hate pumping my own tyres-- but-- I have been saying that for a year. The comments recently that Putin was attempting to tough it out and trying a giant bluff are pretty close to the mark in my estimation.Anything -but-admit the depth of the problems.It seems like he has convinced the Russian population that it is the west responsible for all Russia's problems.
 One key pointer-- the supposed cash reserves are nowhere near what is claimed and often reported-- big problems coming very soon. Major Russian companies are falling over everyday now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on December 21, 2014, 06:22:23 PM

Holiday congratulations
(http://atn.ua/sites/default/files/1419083291-5065.jpg)
http://atn.ua/obshchestvo/zhiteli-moskvy-i-peterburga-pozdravili-putina-i-chekistov-s-prazdnikom-vam-nedolgo (http://atn.ua/obshchestvo/zhiteli-moskvy-i-peterburga-pozdravili-putina-i-chekistov-s-prazdnikom-vam-nedolgo)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 21, 2014, 07:33:47 PM
Oh Dear!!! Now the regime is asking Russian women to use beetroot as make-up instead of imported lipsticks...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2882705/Russian-women-advised-use-BEETROOT-instead-imported-lipstick-economic-crisis-worsens.html

What's next? The regime to tell the population to drink mud as the ingredients for making Borscht become unaffordable?
 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 21, 2014, 07:44:16 PM
Holiday congratulations
(http://atn.ua/sites/default/files/1419083291-5065.jpg)
http://atn.ua/obshchestvo/zhiteli-moskvy-i-peterburga-pozdravili-putina-i-chekistov-s-prazdnikom-vam-nedolgo (http://atn.ua/obshchestvo/zhiteli-moskvy-i-peterburga-pozdravili-putina-i-chekistov-s-prazdnikom-vam-nedolgo)

These are the real Russians Mendy not the "honest" Russians like Doll and Belvis
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 21, 2014, 09:00:30 PM
Hate pumping my own tyres-- but-- I have been saying that for a year.

It's been said by another poster that you tend to hyperventilate and blow a lot of hot air and it sure appears to be true with that statement.  You may have had some opinions along the lines of the article, but none of your opinions were backed up by cold hard facts like the article is.  So yeah, you're trying to "pump your own tyres".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 22, 2014, 01:54:59 AM
Quote
While I don't agree with LT that the current situation in Russia is yet to be at the level of what happened to Germany during WWII and resulted in Nuremburg, I do wonder if the part that I bolded has been affecting your reporting

If it had, there would be no significant personal costs to worry about.

At the same time, I am not willing to paint everything in and about Russia with a black brush. I have pointed out the issues with an economy that was propped up only by oil, written about corruption in the legal system, pointed out the hypocrisy and lies about troops in Crimea and about the coup that displaced an elected parliament and government in Crimea, and I have written long and hard about the Russian troops in Ukraine. I have written about the lack of "federalization" in Russia, while at the same time Russia wants a federalized Ukraine. What is good for one, should be good for both. The Kremlin wants a top down, everything run from Moscow approach for Russia, but seem to think that Ukraine should be government just the opposite. Why? Because Moscow can then at least influence regions of Ukraine if they can't control Kyiv.

For years I have held the banner on the "31" movement--that has cost me. However, the RF Constitution's article 31 gives every Russian the right to meet, speak and form alliances without the approval of government. As the Duma passes laws that limit those rights, I have been one of the few Western journalists to point out that violation of rights. I have been temporarily detained (so far not arrested) twice in Russia, once in Belarus. If I actively participated in events and protests there is no doubt that I'd be arrested and deported promptly. However, there are forms of pressure that do not include arrest when one writes or broadcasts reports contrary to the official narrative.

I have also reported on dirty elections. That is something that the current government has perfected into a fine art. From "caravan voting" to busing in pro-government "protestors" from hours away (with pay) while at the same time limiting permits for opposition events, and to stuffing ballot boxes even in front of cameras, this government is a master of rigging elections.

That being said, there are some good things happening in Russia, but they are done locally by ordinary people and not at the behest of a strong central government. There are good people all over Russia. Every morning my MIL and my wife meet in the living room to pray. When home I join them. They are worried about a war, and they pray every day that war will not come to Russia. I also walk the streets and ride the subway and everywhere, I mean everywhere, there are messages about resisting the fascists in Ukraine and protecting the Motherland against invasion (by the USA and NATO). One cannot escape the war footing, and I understand how easy it is to be swayed when the main sources for news are feeding the populace a non-stop diet of war and patriotic messages. Until you live here, it is impossible to understand the near total domination of media and public policy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 22, 2014, 06:50:22 AM
If it had, there would be no significant personal costs to worry about.

At the same time, I am not willing to paint everything in and about Russia with a black brush. I have pointed out the issues with an economy that was propped up only by oil, written about corruption in the legal system, pointed out the hypocrisy and lies about troops in Crimea and about the coup that displaced an elected parliament and government in Crimea, and I have written long and hard about the Russian troops in Ukraine. I have written about the lack of "federalization" in Russia, while at the same time Russia wants a federalized Ukraine. What is good for one, should be good for both. The Kremlin wants a top down, everything run from Moscow approach for Russia, but seem to think that Ukraine should be government just the opposite. Why? Because Moscow can then at least influence regions of Ukraine if they can't control Kyiv.

For years I have held the banner on the "31" movement--that has cost me. However, the RF Constitution's article 31 gives every Russian the right to meet, speak and form alliances without the approval of government. As the Duma passes laws that limit those rights, I have been one of the few Western journalists to point out that violation of rights. I have been temporarily detained (so far not arrested) twice in Russia, once in Belarus. If I actively participated in events and protests there is no doubt that I'd be arrested and deported promptly. However, there are forms of pressure that do not include arrest when one writes or broadcasts reports contrary to the official narrative.

I have also reported on dirty elections. That is something that the current government has perfected into a fine art. From "caravan voting" to busing in pro-government "protestors" from hours away (with pay) while at the same time limiting permits for opposition events, and to stuffing ballot boxes even in front of cameras, this government is a master of rigging elections.

That being said, there are some good things happening in Russia, but they are done locally by ordinary people and not at the behest of a strong central government. There are good people all over Russia. Every morning my MIL and my wife meet in the living room to pray. When home I join them. They are worried about a war, and they pray every day that war will not come to Russia. I also walk the streets and ride the subway and everywhere, I mean everywhere, there are messages about resisting the fascists in Ukraine and protecting the Motherland against invasion (by the USA and NATO). One cannot escape the war footing, and I understand how easy it is to be swayed when the main sources for news are feeding the populace a non-stop diet of war and patriotic messages. Until you live here, it is impossible to understand the near total domination of media and public policy.

Thank you Mendy.  Thank you for poignant revelations about the country of my dear wife,  and brave of you to report them.  May God ride with you along your journalistic quest.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 08:27:57 AM
I would like to know what the "great personal cost" is, because it doesn't seem to me that you've revealed it as of yet.  Being temporarily detained can happen in any Western country as well.  Seems to me there is a greater danger to you because you're American and some fruit loop who hates Americans might try to attack you, than anything from the government.  The government probably allows you to go about your business as they know it would be a bad example to do otherwise.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 09:02:13 AM

They are worried about a war, and they pray every day that war will not come to Russia. I also walk the streets and ride the subway and everywhere, I mean everywhere, there are messages about resisting the fascists in Ukraine and protecting the Motherland against invasion (by the USA and NATO). One cannot escape the war footing, and I understand how easy it is to be swayed when the main sources for news are feeding the populace a non-stop diet of war and patriotic messages.


Gator claims that the USA has the technology to direct meteors where to hit the earth and that the US was behind the recent meteor that landed in Russia's far east.

If so quite bluntly I would not at all be upset if the USA directed a few hundred meteors to land in Moscow with all the resultant destruction.  Russians want to hyperventilate about a threat from the USA give them one from outer space.  Russians cheer gleefully at their governments actions in Crimea and E. Ukraine -- give them a taste of what it's like to be bombarded.

You can explain the reason that they're a bunch of zombies and while it makes sense I see no reason why the rest of the World should not take real action against Putin.  The next time he tries to provoke NATO with one of his stupid military flights almost hitting civilian aircraft in the West I hope the country involved shoots his guys out of the sky.  Enough is enough with this tin-pot dictator; give him the hot conflict that he wants.  Then follow it up with a massive meteor strike on Moscow.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 22, 2014, 09:05:13 AM
Quote
I would like to know what the "great personal cost" is, because it doesn't seem to me that you've revealed it as of yet.

You are correct, I have not revealed it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 22, 2014, 09:17:03 AM
Gator claims that the USA has the technology to direct meteors where to hit the earth and that the US was behind the recent meteor that landed in Russia's far east.

If so quite bluntly I would not at all be upset if the USA directed a few hundred meteors to land in Moscow with all the resultant destruction.  Russians want to hyperventilate about a threat from the USA give them one from outer space.  Russians cheer gleefully at their governments actions in Crimea and E. Ukraine -- give them a taste of what it's like to be bombarded.

You can explain the reason that they're a bunch of zombies and while it makes sense I see no reason why the rest of the World should not take real action against Putin.  The next time he tries to provoke NATO with one of his stupid military flights almost hitting civilian aircraft in the West I hope the country involve shoots his guys out of the sky.  Enough is enough with this tin-pot dictator; give him the hot conflict that he wants.  Then follow it up with a massive meteor strike on Moscow.

I really hope you're venting and not serious.  I love the Russian people and have many friends there.  Most of the Russians that I know do not think like Doll or Belvis and act like nothing bad is happening or try to discredit anyone who brings up evidence against the Kremlin's acts.  While they think their country is following the correct path, they do not close their eyes to what is happening over in Ukraine.

You demonstrate that you do not know the real people in Russia or you never would make such statements in public.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 09:20:24 AM
I really hope you're venting and not serious.  I love the Russian people and have many friends there.  Most of the Russians that I know do not think like Doll or Belvis and act like nothing bad is happening or try to discredit anyone who brings up evidence against the Kremlin's acts.  While they think their country is following the correct path, they do not close their eyes to what is happening over in Ukraine.

You demonstrate that you do not know the real people in Russia or you never would make such statements in public.

I see no difference between the Russian people right now and between the German people at the onset of WWII.  The German population was flying high after annexing parts of Czechoslovakia and the whole country of Austria.

You can like them all you want to, but if they don't know the personal suffering which they've aggressively launched against Ukraine then they're not going to change their ways.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 22, 2014, 09:42:10 AM
AC,

I don't know what your personal journey is to find a spouse in an FSU country, but your words tell me that you have much to learn about Russia (and the surrounding countries).   I have taught classes to young Russian students living here in the States.  When they came to the US, they had no illusions that their country had a long way to go. 

You have to realize that you are looking only at one side of an equation.  If you spend time in Russia, as many of us have done, you would realize that the problem is much more complex than you make it out to be.  I sympathize with the Russian people.  They believe Putin is moving forward the best he can under undo hardship.

I have to relate a story:  One of the students, named Alex, became a Starbucks addict when he was in the States.  Couldn't live without it.  When we were traveling back in the Moscow area, I insisted that he be my driver.  He claimed that there were no Starbucks in Moscow.  So on the last day, I told him we had a meeting on Novy Arbat.    He took us to the address, and, low and behold, there was a Starbucks.  I told him that this was our meeting for the morning.  As he was leaving, with a big smile on his face, I gave him a 10,000 Ruble Gift Card from Starbucks so he could go back every time he wanted (until the next time we saw each other.)

Today Alex is a bank manager in the Moscow area.  He loves to tell the story of his American friends and, when I am in Moscow, we make sure to catch a lunch together.  (I would be interested to hear what he thinks about the drop in the Ruble this week.)

AC, my point is that you have just advocated dropping a meteor on my friend's home. 

But in terms of realization of what their country is doing?  I believe that the people of Russia have not begun to feel the long cold winter that they have brought on themselves.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 22, 2014, 09:44:34 AM
AC, is right.  There is a no difference.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

AC, my point is that you have just advocated dropping a meteor on my friend's home

But in terms of realization of what their country is doing?  I believe that the people of Russia have not begun to feel the long cold winter that they have brought on themselves.

That's correct I have.  If you think I am joking then refer to the post ML made about Russians; I feel very similar as he does after reading the stuff on this forum.  The constant denials, lies, obfuscations and refusal to face any sort of reality like the rest of the human beings on this planet.  And these same xenophobic bunch of chauvinistic racists think that they are better than Ukrainians?  Better than Kazakhstani's?  Better than the Chechen people who they nearly obliterated in malicious acts of genocide?  Better than the Dutch civilians and others who they blew out of the sky in an act of terror?

Save your pious speech for somebody else; I'm no longer interested.  "The long cold winter they have brought upon themselves".  Indeed. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 22, 2014, 12:16:45 PM
More good news tonight on TSN news.

It seems that some of these lost Muskovi tourists want to be paid.. No pay no terrorize.. They're leaving!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 22, 2014, 01:49:55 PM
That's correct I have.  If you think I am joking then refer to the post ML made about Russians; I feel very similar as he does after reading the stuff on this forum.  The constant denials, lies, obfuscations and refusal to face any sort of reality like the rest of the human beings on this planet.  And these same xenophobic bunch of chauvinistic racists think that they are better than Ukrainians?  Better than Kazakhstani's?  Better than the Chechen people who they nearly obliterated in malicious acts of genocide?  Better than the Dutch civilians and others who they blew out of the sky in an act of terror?

Save your pious speech for somebody else; I'm no longer interested.  "The long cold winter they have brought upon themselves".  Indeed.
AC--I read ML's comments and understand totally the passion and sentiments he expressed- I do not think anyone who has read my comments  would be in any doubt where my sympathies are.
One of the benefits we all have who live in democracies that support free speech(within reason) is that we are able to say pretty much whatever--no matter how ridiculous it is.

We see on the forum from some posters--in this thread recently Doll and Belvis-- show little empathy or sympathy for Ukraine and Ukrainians but by and large they confine themselves to a contrary view -- and apart from showing ignorance and silly denial of some clear facts--it is their right to do so.I agree with very little they say-- and I am disappointed that those with access to open media are so restricted in their thinking--but their right to say what they think is fundamental to western countries basic freedoms.

At the same time-- thinking they represent ALL Russian thinking is a stretch too far. A little like someone attributing all of us here on the forum to LT's comments. I would say I agree with a percentage of what he says-- but certainly not the whole --nor the way he sees the world generally. Taking individual opinions and attributing in a wider sense  is wrong.

As Jon says above--this is a series of complex issues and easy for the malicious to exploit division and create hatred-- none of that will help solve this problem for Ukraine.When the world stops talking to each other--then the real problems start.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 01:52:09 PM
AC--I read ML's comments and understand totally the passion and sentiments he expressed- I do not think anyone who has read my comments  would be in any doubt where my sympathies are.
One of the benefits we all have who live in democracies that support free speech(within reason) is that we are able to say pretty much whatever--no matter how ridiculous it is.

We see on the forum from some posters--in this thread recently Doll and Belvis-- show little empathy or sympathy for Ukraine and Ukrainians but by and large they confine themselves to a contrary view -- and apart from showing ignorance and silly denial of some clear facts--it is their right to do so.I agree with very little they say-- and I am disappointed that those with access to open media are so restricted in their thinking--but their right to say what they think is fundamental to western countries basic freedoms.

At the same time-- thinking they represent ALL Russian thinking is a stretch too far. A little like someone attributing all of us here on the forum to LT's comments. I would say I agree with a percentage of what he says-- but certainly not the whole --nor the way he sees the world generally. Taking individual opinions and attributing in a wider sense  is wrong.

As Jon says above--this is a series of complex issues and easy for the malicious to exploit division and create hatred-- none of that will help solve this problem for Ukraine.When the world stops talking to each other--then the real problems start.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 22, 2014, 01:53:55 PM
OK, may 30 deaths. I'm talking about the fresh graves you mentioned. I don't dispute everything negative said about Russia, I'm asking to show the credible sources.  Can you?
Well, the talk about trolls can't be counted for the argument, agree?  :)
You have refered to russian jornalists. I can't accept their writings because:

1) The main source about many-many dead Russian soldiers,  human right activist Elena Vasileva, was exposed  as a liar when she listed the names of killed soldiers. Her list turned to be  the Orenburg local football team “Gazovik” players.  Then she wrote about killed Russian combat swimmers near Mariupol and again with names. Well, she just copied the names from fantastic book of Alexander Bushkov about combat divers. You see, why the thousands dead Russian soldiers in Ukraine  have became the source for jokes in russian social network.

2) You have refered to the article of  another activist, Shlosseberg, where he presented info about russian servicemen in Ukraine. But the same source is talking about American brigade of  electronic warfare at Donbass. Will you accept that Americans GIs are taking part in figthing?  :D

What is your source where it shows that that she is discredited?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 01:55:28 PM
AC--I read ML's comments and understand totally the passion and sentiments he expressed- I do not think anyone who has read my comments  would be in any doubt where my sympathies are.
One of the benefits we all have who live in democracies that support free speech(within reason) is that we are able to say pretty much whatever--no matter how ridiculous it is.

We see on the forum from some posters--in this thread recently Doll and Belvis-- show little empathy or sympathy for Ukraine and Ukrainians but by and large they confine themselves to a contrary view -- and apart from showing ignorance and silly denial of some clear facts--it is their right to do so.I agree with very little they say-- and I am disappointed that those with access to open media are so restricted in their thinking--but their right to say what they think is fundamental to western countries basic freedoms.

At the same time-- thinking they represent ALL Russian thinking is a stretch too far. A little like someone attributing all of us here on the forum to LT's comments. I would say I agree with a percentage of what he says-- but certainly not the whole --nor the way he sees the world generally. Taking individual opinions and attributing in a wider sense  is wrong.

As Jon says above--this is a series of complex issues and easy for the malicious to exploit division and create hatred-- none of that will help solve this problem for Ukraine.When the world stops talking to each other--then the real problems start.

Like I told jone save the pious arguments for somebody else.  I've turned the corner and turned over a new leaf.

At the end of WWII millions of ethnic Germans who could not get away from the Soviets were rounded up and butchered and starved by Stalin and nobody ever wrote much of anything that I am aware of expressing sympathy for them.

The Russian population at this point deserves what they've got coming to them and as far as I'm concerned the sooner the better.  Any more delays just buy time for the regime of a despotic dictator.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 01:59:02 PM
Excerpt of interview with Oleksandr Turchynov:

– The Minsk agreements. How can we force Russia to fulfill them? What will be Ukraine’s strategy for the future?

– Russia is acting in a despicable manner. Russia has attacked when we were weak as never before–in fact, when there was no real government in the country. They attacked when there was no combat-ready army, when there was a complete collapse of law enforcement structures. Like jackals, they stabbed [us] in the back.

The only mechanism to force them to comply with the agreements, including the Minsk agreement, and to make [them] free the occupied territories – is a strong army and a strong state. There is no other mechanism. I do not believe in diplomacy towards Russia. I do not believe they will leave, fearing the pressure from our allies.Only a strong Ukrainian army will force them to get out of our territory."

http://maidantranslations.com/2014/12/22/oleksandr-turchynovs-first-nsdc-interview-i-dont-believe-in-diplomacy-towards-putins-russia/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 22, 2014, 02:07:22 PM
It's been said by another poster that you tend to hyperventilate and blow a lot of hot air and it sure appears to be true with that statement.  You may have had some opinions along the lines of the article, but none of your opinions were backed up by cold hard facts like the article is.  So yeah, you're trying to "pump your own tyres".

At the time I posted various links to stories>  I prefer to post source material for all to read for themselves-- rather than plagiarise and regurgitate. Allowing  all to read they can make their own minds up about the quality and weight of the words!
It is the reason I post many links and prefer to include translations in summarised gives readers the joist of a story -even if you do not like the translation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 02:24:55 PM
At the time I posted various links to stories>  I prefer to post source material for all to read for themselves-- rather than plagiarise and regurgitate. Allowing  all to read they can make their own minds up about the quality and weight of the words!
It is the reason I post many links and prefer to include translations in summarised gives readers the joist of a story -even if you do not like the translation.

Mostly what you post as "links" is indecipherable gibberish which was in Russian and is a very bad translation in English, if you can even call it that.

It's just my opinion and perhaps the opinion of a few others, that you did not call events a year ago like you are claiming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 02:28:02 PM
More good news tonight on TSN news.

It seems that some of these lost Muskovi tourists want to be paid.. No pay no terrorize.. They're leaving!
where did you take this word- Muscovi?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 22, 2014, 02:30:19 PM
Mostly what you post as "links" is indecipherable gibberish which was in Russian and is a very bad translation in English, if you can even call it that.

It's just my opinion and perhaps the opinion of a few others, that you did not call events a year ago like you are claiming.


Bingo!


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 22, 2014, 02:43:54 PM
Mostly what you post as "links" is indecipherable gibberish which was in Russian and is a very bad translation in English, if you can even call it that.

It's just my opinion and perhaps the opinion of a few others, that you did not call events a year ago like you are claiming.

Which part of _ you can read the links yourself--  do you not understand.
Really--how petty can you get--the translations I post are there for those that can't or don't want to do it themselves.
As for FT-- you would not keep showing your ignorance if you read a few of the links.
finis
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 22, 2014, 02:53:01 PM

Quote
  my point is that you have just advocated dropping a meteor on my friend's home 

That's correct I have.  If you think I am joking then refer to the post ML made about Russians; I feel very similar as he does after reading the stuff on this forum. 

Reading?  You said reading!  You advocate killing millions of people based on what you read on this forum, an internet forum where anyone can say anything with impunity, as evidenced by what you just wrote. 

I truly hope you are pulling our leg the same as I did when claiming the US can control meteors.  If you are not joking, you are no better than the Russians who support Putin based on what they read.  One difference, I doubt if any of them advocate killing millions of Americans.   

Spend some personal time with real Russians and then decide if they deserve extinction. 

You equated today's Russians with WWII Germans.  I equate your remarks, if serious, to the alledged chants, "What do we want?  Dead Cops!"

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 02:56:18 PM
That's correct I have.  If you think I am joking then refer to the post ML made about Russians; I feel very similar as he does after reading the stuff on this forum. 


Reading?  You said reading!  You advocate killing millions of people based on what you read on this forum, an internet forum where anyone can say anything with impunity, as evidenced by what you just wrote. 

I truly hope you are pulling our leg the same as I did when claiming the US can control meteors.  If you are not joking, you are no better than the Russians who support Putin based on what they read.  One difference, I doubt if any of them advocate killing millions of Americans.   

Spend some personal time with real Russians and then decide if they deserve extinction. 

You equated today's Russians with WWII Germans.  I equate your remarks, if serious, to the alledged chants, "What do we want?  Dead Cops!"

Equate all you want.  And don't just read this forum, read any forum with Russians spewing their hatred and vitriol towards those who don't want to be their colonial slaves.

The sooner they get a taste of their own medicine the better for their lot in the long run. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 22, 2014, 03:40:59 PM
AC -

In all fairness, what you are really seeing is an army of paid Web Trolls.  You see them on any site that has to do with Western / Russian relations.  I would be very surprised if we didn't have one on this site.  While the Russian perspective may be prejudiced against Ukraine and the West, the average guy from Russia probably has relatives in Ukraine and isn't quite so strident.  We have hinted broadly at that in previous posts.  Maybe you should take that to heart, lest you fall in love with a Russian woman some day and someone reads your comments to her  (which are more than strident and bordering on maniacal).

Just out of curiosity, I am interested to know how many on this site believe that it is commonly read by the FSB who wish to get a 'take' on the pulse of Western thought?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 03:42:33 PM
Gator, the very name of this thread  means a lot, people are happy that  Russians are getting through hardships. Not Putin, not government but just people. And yes- they are openly wishing dead corps.
The whole board is disturbing
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 03:48:56 PM

Maybe you should take that to heart, lest you fall in love with a Russian woman some day and someone reads your comments to her.


 :naughty:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 22, 2014, 03:52:16 PM
Silly guy, AC.

Were you a charter member to the KKK as well?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 04:02:23 PM
Gator, the very name of this thread  means a lot, people are happy that  Russians are getting through hardships. Not Putin, not government but just people. And yes- they are openly wishing dead corps.
The whole board is disturbing

Most posters are not happy that Russians are facing hardship.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 04:15:36 PM
At the end of WWII millions of ethnic Germans who could not get away from the Soviets were rounded up and butchered and starved by Stalin and nobody ever wrote much of anything that I am aware of expressing sympathy for them.
Before then, as well.  There were anti German pogroms in Russia during WWI.  There were anti German campaigns before that, as the educated class of Russia, for centuries, was comprised primarily of ethnic Germans. 

On a current note, German experts on Russia have written a letter requesting a more balanced approach to Russian aggression.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/securing-peace-instead-rewarding-expansion (http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/securing-peace-instead-rewarding-expansion)
 
 
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 22, 2014, 04:19:44 PM
Before then, as well.  There were anti German pogroms in Russia during WWI.  There were anti German campaigns before that, as the educated class of Russia, for centuries, was comprised primarily of ethnic Germans. 

On a current note, German experts on Russia have written a letter requesting a more balanced approach to Russian aggression.

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/securing-peace-instead-rewarding-expansion (http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/securing-peace-instead-rewarding-expansion)

Well, while I certainly hope that this letter works, I seriously doubt it.  As in it's got a 99.9999% chance of failure.  Putin was very clear in his speech that he is not backing off of his campaign of terror and aggression in Ukraine.  I certainly believe that Ukrainians are capable and have the heart to defend themselves; they just need the proper weapons to get the job done.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 04:27:24 PM

Most posters are not happy that Russians are facing hardship.
Really?
Who is this " most" besides you?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 04:30:25 PM
Most posters here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on December 22, 2014, 04:44:56 PM
Gator, the very name of this thread  means a lot, people are happy that  Russians are getting through hardships. Not Putin, not government but just people. And yes- they are openly wishing dead corps.
The whole board is disturbing

The most static on this forum right now are from the chest pounding knuckle dragging "let's kill all the Russians" crowd. But, that's not all the static, here. Yours isn't any better. Both are a result of believing everything you read or hear from your trusted sources. The truth likely lies somewhere in the middle. I am not happy with what is happening to Ukrainians or Russians. My wife is currently in Russia and is quite astounded at what many of her friends, very close friends are believing about the U.S.. This is all from Russian propaganda up to and including that the crisis in Ukraine is all the Americans fault. She told me she was glad for me that I didn't make the trip this time. It's very sad, I know and love those people and likely they still do me. All this because of some rich people wanting to play chess with real lives
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 05:04:26 PM
Most posters here.
i am probably blind
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: missAmeno on December 22, 2014, 05:04:51 PM
Who is this " most" besides you?

I can not even grasp why on earth do you expect rest of the world to bother about hardships of Russians?
Russia wouldn't be what it is today without so many brainwashed russian idiots supporting their power-obsessed-grab-the-land-kill-the-neighbors-schizophrenic-idol. You including. Few months back you was bragging how russians are ready to eat dirt rather than stop the aggression. So what change? Dirt is not tasty enough? Try it with shirtless-on-the-horse-psychotic-cuckoo-nut photos, that will spice up any russian dirt!
Its funny how suddenly everyone should blame politics instead of people when those people just few months back were yelling how much they support those politics.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 05:09:39 PM
The most static on this forum right now are from the chest pounding knuckle dragging "let's kill all the Russians" crowd. But, that's not all the static, here. Yours isn't any better. Both are a result of believing everything you read or hear from your trusted sources. The truth likely lies somewhere in the middle. I am not happy with what is happening to Ukrainians or Russians. My wife is currently in Russia and is quite astounded at what many of her friends, very close friends are believing about the U.S.. This is all from Russian propaganda up to and including that the crisis in Ukraine is all the Americans fault. She told me she was glad for me that I didn't make the trip this time. It's very sad, I know and love those people and likely they still do me. All this because of some rich people wanting to play chess with real lives
Listen to the US news and Americans
What  is not " my better"?
Did I ONCE was happy about what Ukraine is getting through? ONCE?
Or did i ONCE supported war? ONCE?
Да типун тебе на язык

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 22, 2014, 05:19:34 PM
Silly guy, AC.

Were you a charter member to the KKK as well?

If the choice is between my family and your friends Jon, find better friends.

The only escape clause is Navalny.  If Navalny can rid Russia of Putin and Putinism, let's talk.  If not, tell your friends and all the other honest Russians to learn a second language. Win win.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: missAmeno on December 22, 2014, 05:24:49 PM
Listen to the US news and Americans
What  is not " my better"?
Did I ONCE was happy about what Ukraine is getting through? ONCE?
Or did i ONCE supported war? ONCE?
Да типун тебе на язык

You support person who is responsible for this war
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 05:27:31 PM
You support person who is responsible for this war
Нe didn' start it. That' one.
Two- show me any post where i support war or hardships for Ukrainians?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 05:31:54 PM
Well, while I certainly hope that this letter works, I seriously doubt it.  As in it's got a 99.9999% chance of failure.  Putin was very clear in his speech that he is not backing off of his campaign of terror and aggression in Ukraine.  I certainly believe that Ukrainians are capable and have the heart to defend themselves; they just need the proper weapons to get the job done.
Putin made multiple attempts to cease the fight
Every time he did it more sanctions were " poured"
It is Poroshenko who doesn't want end of war
Poroshenko and his " friends" overseas
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 05:37:55 PM
Your post is inaccurate, Doll.  It is Ukraine that observed all the ceasefires.  All were broken not by Ukraine, but by the terrorists.  They have such honour that they agreed to let Ukrainian soldiers pass in Ilovaysk and then shot those soldiers as they tried to pass.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 22, 2014, 05:39:21 PM
Really? You are being too ridiculous.

It is really simple to end the conflict-- withdraw Russian troops and support from Ukrainian territory--including the Crimea-- and it can end overnight.
Russian presence and Russian attempts to control Ukraine are not wanted-- when will you ever get that?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 05:39:58 PM
There are many accounts by independent journalists on breaches of the ceasefire, as well as on what is on those "aid convoys", and regular Russian troops fighting in Ukraine.

This account comes during one negotiated "ceasefire".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/03/ukraine-soldier-youre-better-clueless-because-truth-horrible-moscow-ilovaysk (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/03/ukraine-soldier-youre-better-clueless-because-truth-horrible-moscow-ilovaysk)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 22, 2014, 05:45:42 PM
Нe didn' start it. That' one.
Two- show me any post where i support war or hardships for Ukrainians?

This monster doesn't want to be saved.  Leave her to her fate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 05:46:20 PM
There are many accounts by independent journalists on breaches of the ceasefire, as well as on what is on those "aid convoys", and regular Russian troops fighting in Ukraine.

This account comes during one negotiated "ceasefire".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/03/ukraine-soldier-youre-better-clueless-because-truth-horrible-moscow-ilovaysk (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/03/ukraine-soldier-youre-better-clueless-because-truth-horrible-moscow-ilovaysk)
Pleeeeeeeease- independent! Just like Mendelyeev
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 05:49:41 PM
Doll, just because you don't happen to like The Guardian, or the BBC, or stringers for half a dozen Western newspapers (most European, and those stringers often are East Europeans), it does not mean their accounts are fabricated.  In fact, the fact that much of what they post is verified by evidence such as filmed footage negates any fabrication.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 05:51:38 PM
The situation currently.  I will note, Mr. Tymchuk is nationalistic (or as others would term him, a patriot), but most of the information he posts has proved accurate.

Quote
[Our sources] recorded the arrival of another company tactical group and several gangs from A. Mozgovoy’s formation. The total number of enemy forces in the area of our checkpoints #29 and #31 has reached 600 people; a tank unit (up to 7 tanks), an artillery group (two-battery mixed artillery battalion, besides the cannon artillery – at least 4 MLRS), and about 25 armored fighting vehicles (AFVs) have been observed. The insurgents are armed with a large number of mortars, anti-tank systems, LNGs [anti-tank grenade launcher easels], RPGs; “Bumblebee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPO-A_Shmel)” flamethrowers were observed as well. In this
area, the enemy fires at the positions of our troops with small arms, sometimes using mortars.

In the area of the settlement of Hranitne (http://www.google.ca/maps/place/Hranitne,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/@47.7460914,37.4870269,9z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x40e72ab78edfe22d:0x840d44c155e6cf6c), the Russian troops withdrew to the second echelon, two “mobile groups” of local insurgents remained “on the front line” (equipped with NSV-12.7 “Utes” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSV_machine_gun) large-caliber machine guns and 120-mm mortars). These groups were tasked with discharging harassing fire onto the positions of Ukrainian troops.  In Amvrosiivka, the commandant’s office of the Russian troops has been set up, staffed by a “rapid response team” (up to 40 servicemen of the Russian Federation) and the unit for
equipment evacuation and emergency repairs. By creating the commandant’s office,
the Russian command ensures “secondary” routes for procurement convoys from
Russia through Amvrosiivka and Telmanove  (http://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Telmanove,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/Amvrosiivka,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/@47.6097764,37.9468672,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x40e12b55e66d0bd3:0x2ef47f31b6a6243e!2m2!1d38.010833!2d47.413889!1m5!1m1!1s0x40e102eacffddd61:0x58b60af5e0bdd7f8!2m2!1d38.483333!2d47.783333)towards the south (the area of Novoazovsk (http://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Telmanove,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/Amvrosiivka,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/Novoazovs'k,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/@47.4522485,37.6563498,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m20!4m19!1m5!1m1!1s0x40e12b55e66d0bd3:0x2ef47f31b6a6243e!2m2!1d38.010833!2d47.413889!1m5!1m1!1s0x40e102eacffddd61:0x58b60af5e0bdd7f8!2m2!1d38.483333!2d47.783333!1m5!1m1!1s0x40e6b8b1453d2e51:0x6907c69ba1f8db8c!2m2!1d38.0670367!2d47.1190259!3e0)).

[Our sources] have observed a new method of regrouping, that the enemy forces use to conceal their progression to the advanced positions. Now, the personnel and its supporting equipment are moved separately. At first, the personnel arrived at the positions (mostly by
civilian transportation), then the equipment and heavy weapons “roll over” in small groups (the tanks and artillery come last).

http://maidantranslations.com/ (http://maidantranslations.com/)
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 22, 2014, 05:52:21 PM
Pleeeeeeeease- independent! Just like Mendelyeev

Doll--you refuse to accept any source--there are plenty of Russian sites that acknowledge .
The OSCE representatives themselves have been attacked.
Who do you think is shooting at the Ukrainian forces in defensive positions at the Donetsk airport--or in defensive positions around Mauripol?

Blindly refusing to accept some things as factual is really just being very silly.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 05:53:19 PM
I can not even grasp why on earth do you expect rest of the world to bother about hardships of Russians?
Russia wouldn't be what it is today without so many brainwashed russian idiots supporting their power-obsessed-grab-the-land-kill-the-neighbors-schizophrenic-idol. You including. Few months back you was bragging how russians are ready to eat dirt rather than stop the aggression. So what change? Dirt is not tasty enough? Try it with shirtless-on-the-horse-psychotic-cuckoo-nut photos, that will spice up any russian dirt!
Its funny how suddenly everyone should blame politics instead of people when those people just few months back were yelling how much they support those politics.
Послушай ты хоть читаешь, что пишешь?
С каких пор умнейшая нация стала идиотами? Я не оговорилась: русские- умнейшая нация
 
I reported to the moderator
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 22, 2014, 05:54:42 PM
Soooo smart
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 05:56:24 PM
Doll, just because you don't happen to like The Guardian, or the BBC, or stringers for half a dozen Western newspapers (most European, and those stringers often are East Europeans), it does not mean their accounts are fabricated.  In fact, the fact that much of what they post is verified by evidence such as filmed footage negates any fabrication.
Keep your inferences to yourself, i even))) read Department of States
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 06:00:46 PM
It is not inference.  It is from your words.  You reject all Western sources, including by journalists who are independent and have no ax to grind in the conflict, in favour of a Russo centric/no fault position.

Unlike some, I don't deny that some in the region had legitimate concerns to be addressed, but those concerns would have have been addressed with death and weapons had Muscovites and Russian mercenaries not started a war in the region. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: missAmeno on December 22, 2014, 06:11:54 PM
Нe didn' start it. That' one.
Two- show me any post where i support war or hardships for Ukrainians?

Doll, you are hopeless.
He did started it, he is doing everything possible for it to carry on and by supporting him, you are supporting it.
Please, do not response with any BS about civil war, Poroshenko, America, Western conspiracy, etc.
My brother is on the frontline since spring, he shoots at Russians and Russians tanks. he gets shelled by Russians from Russian weapons. He is on Ukrainian land as well as those Russians tanks he shoots at. He is defending his country while Russian tanks are trying to occupy it. Reality is that simple and that scary.
Russians have a power to stop Russians tanks, they choose not to use it. So they have no reason to complain about some kind of 'hardships', they can keep eat their dirt and if they straggle to swallow it they always can sprinkled it with idiotic shirtless photos, anyhow that is what recommended by Kremlin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 06:13:04 PM
Doll--you refuse to accept any source--there are plenty of Russian sites that acknowledge .
The OSCE representatives themselves have been attacked.
Who do you think is shooting at the Ukrainian forces in defensive positions at the Donetsk airport--or in defensive positions around Mauripol?

Ukrainians are shooting Ukrainians
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: missAmeno on December 22, 2014, 06:14:58 PM
Я не оговорилась: русские- умнейшая нация[/font]

Yeah, right. Whatever you believe in
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 06:15:36 PM
Doll, you are hopeless.
He did started it, he is doing everything possible for it to carry on and by supporting him, you are supporting it.
Please, do not response with any BS about civil war, Poroshenko, America, Western conspiracy, etc.
My brother is on the frontline since spring, he shoots at Russians and Russians tanks. he gets shelled by Russians from Russian weapons. He is on Ukrainian land as well as those Russians tanks he shoots at. He is defending his country while Russian tanks are trying to occupy it. Reality is that simple and that scary.
Russians have a power to stop Russians tanks, they choose not to use it. So they have no reason to complain about some kind of 'hardships', they can keep eat their dirt and if they straggle to swallow it they always can sprinkled it with idiotic shirtless photos, anyhow that is what recommended by Kremlin.
again, i will respond with what i want, got it or you need translation?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 06:16:01 PM
Quote
Ukrainians are shooting Ukrainians
There are just as many Russians shooting Ukrainians as there are Ukrainians.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 22, 2014, 06:17:29 PM
Ukrainians are shooting Ukrainians

So who are the Russians shooting  at?

Who do you think is shooting at the Russians being semt home in freezers vans?How did they get killed?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 06:27:31 PM
Doll, you are hopeless.
He did started it, he is doing everything possible for it to carry on and by supporting him, you are supporting it.
Please, do not response with any BS about civil war, Poroshenko, America, Western conspiracy, etc.
My brother is on the frontline since spring, he shoots at Russians and Russians tanks. he gets shelled by Russians from Russian weapons. He is on Ukrainian land as well as those Russians tanks he shoots at. He is defending his country while Russian tanks are trying to occupy it. Reality is that simple and that scary.
Russians have a power to stop Russians tanks, they choose not to use it. So they have no reason to complain about some kind of 'hardships', they can keep eat their dirt and if they straggle to swallow it they always can sprinkled it with idiotic shirtless photos, anyhow that is what recommended by Kremlin.
how does he know the tanks are Russian, are the painted in tricolor?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 06:28:03 PM
At any given time, 1/3 of all fighters in Donbas are regular Russian troops.  Mercenaries are also well represented.
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/237965.html (http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/237965.html)
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 06:28:28 PM
Yeah, right. Whatever you believe in
I am sure of it
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 06:29:18 PM
There are just as many Russians shooting Ukrainians as there are Ukrainians.
Evidence?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 06:29:30 PM
how does he know the tanks are Russian, are the painted in tricolor?
Russian weaponry is more advanced than is any Ukrainian weaponry that would have been captured. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 06:30:04 PM
So who are the Russians shooting  at?

Who do you think is shooting at the Russians being semt home in freezers vans?How did they get killed?
Evidence?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 06:31:09 PM
At any given time, 1/3 of all fighters in Donbas are regular Russian troops.  Mercenaries are also well represented.
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/237965.html (http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/237965.html)
Pleeeeeese- UA news
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 06:31:55 PM
Russian weaponry is more advanced than is any Ukrainian weaponry that would have been captured.
Show me
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 06:32:13 PM
Evidence?

See my preceding post.

The FSB agent sent to foment war, Strelkov, admitted he could not find locals to fight for Donbas.  Because all the self appointed "leaders" of the region (Strelkov, Borodai, etc.) were Muscovites with FSB backgrounds, eventually, Moscow decided to replace them with local, compliant idiots such as Zakharchenko.
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 06:33:23 PM
Pleeeeeese- UA news
Ukrainian news is not necessarily inaccurate. 
Anyone who has left that region has said pretty much the same thing - there is little local support for fighters, a great many of whom are foreigners.
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 06:34:19 PM
Show me
I did.  Read the post from Tymchuk above.  None of this weaponry was/is common in Ukraine.  The Ukrainian army was fighting with Soviet era Kalashnikovs.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 22, 2014, 07:19:55 PM
Doll, you are hopeless.
He did started it, he is doing everything possible for it to carry on and by supporting him, you are supporting it.
Please, do not response with any BS about civil war, Poroshenko, America, Western conspiracy, etc.
My brother is on the frontline since spring, he shoots at Russians and Russians tanks. he gets shelled by Russians from Russian weapons. He is on Ukrainian land as well as those Russians tanks he shoots at. He is defending his country while Russian tanks are trying to occupy it. Reality is that simple and that scary.
Russians have a power to stop Russians tanks, they choose not to use it.

agree MISS A , it is that simple , not much happens in russia without  someone in power knowing and approving

mr putin has that power if he chose to stop this invasion and war ,

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 22, 2014, 07:35:36 PM
i am probably blind

No, you just stick your head in the sand that's all...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 08:26:03 PM
See my preceding post.

The FSB agent sent to foment war, Strelkov, admitted he could not find locals to fight for Donbas.  Because all the self appointed "leaders" of the region (Strelkov, Borodai, etc.) were Muscovites with FSB backgrounds, eventually, Moscow decided to replace them with local, compliant idiots such as Zakharchenko.
i saw it- how does prove Russian presence?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 08:28:27 PM
Do you believe men with long ties to the FSB just "showed up" and started a war for the heck of it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 08:29:11 PM
I did.  Read the post from Tymchuk above.  None of this weaponry was/is common in Ukraine.  The Ukrainian army was fighting with Soviet era Kalashnikovs.
I have Sovit A K-47 at home, so what?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 08:31:37 PM
Are you a former FSB officer?  Employed by the Russian government?  Commanding troops in Donbas?  If not, then your gun is irrelevant.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 08:42:44 PM
Do you believe men with long ties to the FSB just "showed up" and started a war for the heck of it?
Where?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2014, 08:47:17 PM
Are you a former FSB officer?  Employed by the Russian government?  Commanding troops in Donbas?  If not, then your gun is irrelevant.
Listen AK47have used by both Ukraine and Russia ( Beroussua and all FSU armies)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 08:48:40 PM
They showed up in Donbass.  They were the ones who started the war there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2014, 08:49:37 PM
Listen AK47have used by both Ukraine and Russia ( Beroussua and all FSU armies)
Yes, but that is not what is doing the most damage in the region.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 22, 2014, 09:15:05 PM
Why is huilo not tell his population to blame the Saudis like he is with the Americans?
After all it is the low oil prices that is killing him much more than the effects of the sanctions...

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/saudi-oil-minister-hints-russia-doesnt-deserve-market-share-2014-12
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 22, 2014, 10:30:20 PM
Obama - fraud that he is - is taking credit for Saudi economic damage to Russia. 

Now Mendy and JayH will defend Obama's peanut throw to Poroshenko but friends of Euromaidan, can I ask you one question?

- Why is it that the gravy sucking Palestinians who hate America are getting twice as much aid as the Ukrainians who love America?

Racism, my b!tches.

Own it Muzh.

(Romney was right.)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 23, 2014, 12:14:50 AM
Obama - fraud that he is - is taking credit for Saudi economic damage to Russia. 

Now Mendy and JayH will defend Obama's peanut throw to Poroshenko but friends of Euromaidan, can I ask you one question?

- Why is it that the gravy sucking Palestinians who hate America are getting twice as much aid as the Ukrainians who love America?

Racism, my b!tches.

Own it Muzh.

(Romney was right.)

You have opened the door!! Much as AC wants to contest my forecasts ( and you) -- I commented on exactly this topic back in about April( approx) and repeated the comments numerous times.
FWIW-- after the Crimean invasion and the threatening behaviour in general of Russia-- Obama did a swing thru the EU talking to leaders--then on the way home to US--he went where? You got it--to Saudi.
I commented on exactly this and the future collapse in oil prices.
Any student of history of the 80/90's will tell you what precipitated the collapse of the old Soviet Union- you got it again-the collapse of oil price.It has commonly been attributed to the US's doing back then-- so hardly a surprise that this strategy was top of the playbook again-- for the same reason--to bring Russia into line.
Earlier in the year the pro-Rus apologists were crowing how Russian gas and oil made them untouchable and nothing the west could do about it. Look at what has happened in a very short time--western actions ( as a result of Russian invasion of Ukraine) have bought the Russians to their knees in remarkably short time. I said within a year-- and it is 6 months ahead of schedule the pain scale they are feeling now--and it is only the tip of the pressure they will feel.
Russia's attempt to use gas as a bullying tool has backfired big time- all it achieved was to set all countries using Russian gas on a path to find a source that was reliable-- and accelerated investment on projects in the pipeline.net result it will not be long that there is any market west of them.The oil story is there for all to see. Two fundamental planks of the Russian economy have been lost in record time-- and combined with the lack of cash reserves Russia will be in crisis not too far into the future.
Your question on aid--already answered numerous times in numerous threads  .I have already commented that this year the new governments of Ukraine and Poroshenko have done ok in incredibly difficult situation.So all in all-yes -Obama and his administration have done well in using the economic tools available to them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 23, 2014, 01:21:39 AM
I can not even grasp why on earth do you expect rest of the world to bother about hardships of Russians?
Russia wouldn't be what it is today without so many brainwashed russian idiots supporting their power-obsessed-grab-the-land-kill-the-neighbors-schizophrenic-idol. You including. Few months back you was bragging how russians are ready to eat dirt rather than stop the aggression. So what change? Dirt is not tasty enough? Try it with shirtless-on-the-horse-psychotic-cuckoo-nut photos, that will spice up any russian dirt!
Its funny how suddenly everyone should blame politics instead of people when those people just few months back were yelling how much they support those politics.

 :clapping:    :clapping:    :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 23, 2014, 01:26:58 AM
Why is huilo not tell his population to blame the Saudis like he is with the Americans?
After all it is the low oil prices that is killing him much more than the effects of the sanctions...


Together, however, they give quite the punch. Russia is hurting because of the drop in revenue and Russian companies can't refinance by borrowing from Wester sources (sanctions) and therefore must seek money from the Russian state to refinance. Giving money to corporations will drain the reserves slowly but surely, while pushing the rouble down because they have to convert roubles to dollars or Euros to pay off debt. This in turn force the Russian Central Bank to spend even more of its reserves to prop up the rouble...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 23, 2014, 01:30:27 AM

Together, however, they give quite the punch. Russia is hurting because of the drop in revenue and Russian companies can't refinance by borrowing from Wester sources (sanctions) and therefore must seek money from the Russian state to refinance. Giving money to corporations will drain the reserves slowly but surely, while pushing the rouble down because they have to convert roubles to dollars or Euros to pay off debt. This in turn force the Russian Central Bank to spend even more of its reserves to prop up the rouble...

My estimate is that within 6 to 8 months those foreign reserves will be completely gone.  Russian companies will start going bankrupt.  The depression of 2015 for Russia is going to make 1998 look like a picnic.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 23, 2014, 01:35:31 AM
I'd wager the Smolny is not the ship the Kremlin were hoping these Russian sailors would be sailing home from France on.

So far France is continuing to do their part for the cause...

Russian Mistral sailors head home from France

..."Some 400 Russian sailors training to operate the Mistral-class warship left France for home on Thursday, with still no official decision in Paris over whether to deliver the vessel to Russia.

In blue uniform and matching berets, the sailors boarded the training ship Smolny, which will take them home from the western French port of Saint-Nazaire.

Last month, French President Francois Hollande postponed "until further notice" the delivery of the first of the two warships.

The first assault ship - which can carry 16 helicopters, four landing crafts, 13 tanks, 450 soldiers and a hospital - was supposed to be delivered in November, according to the original deal signed in 2011.

But as the crisis in Ukraine deepened amid accusations of Russian meddling in the east of the country, France was pressured by its allies to delay the delivery of the warships.

Hollande faces a serious dilemma over the Mistrals as France could be liable for hefty fines if it breaches the 1.2-billion-euro contract.

However, if Hollande decides to go ahead with the delivery France could annoy its allies around the world."...

http://www.english.rfi.fr/asia-pacific/20141218-russian-mistral-sailors-head-home-france

The Russian government's throwing a bit of a temper tantrum though...

Russia tells France to hand over warship or return cash

..."Russia's government pressured France on Saturday to either hand over the first of two Mistral-class warships it has suspended due to the crisis in Ukraine or pay back the money before the new year.

"We would be content with either development: the Mistrals or the return of all the invested money," Russian Deputy Defence Minister Yury Borisov told Interfax news agency.

"It doesn't matter if the calendar shows 31 December 2014 or 1 January 2015, but we are waiting for France's decision."

He added that, given a currency crisis that has seen the Russian ruble devalued by 50 percent, taking back the euros "might actually be preferable".

French shipbuilder DCNS signed a 1.2-billion-euro deal with Moscow to build two Mistral warships in 2011, long before Russia's annexation of Crimea and support of separatists in eastern Ukraine.

Paris now faces the decision of delivering the two ships to Russia and facing the backlash of its Nato allies, or paying potentially heavy fines for failing to honour the contract.

The French government delayed delivery of the first warship "until further notice" after missing the September and then the November 2014 deadlines.

On Thursday, 400 Russian sailors training aboard the first ship in the French port city of Saint-Nazaire left the country."...

http://www.english.rfi.fr/europe/20141220-russia-tells-france-hand-over-warship-or-return-cash

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 23, 2014, 01:52:17 AM
I never thought I would say that I love the French, but I'm going to really like them a lot if they deny Russia these warships.  I hope they keep the money as well.  Better yet give it to Ukraine and tell Russia that it's war damages for their theft of Crimea and for damages of E. Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 23, 2014, 02:03:04 AM
I can not even grasp why on earth do you expect rest of the world to bother about hardships of Russians?
Russia wouldn't be what it is today without so many brainwashed russian idiots supporting their power-obsessed-grab-the-land-kill-the-neighbors-schizophrenic-idol.


I agree with you and I am visiting in-laws in Russia  :-X  Having to watch Russian propaganda news day in and day out and having political discussions (even though I do my best to avoid them) makes me long for a lobotomy  :o


The fact of the matter is that the populace enables Putin and with few exceptions support him wholeheartedly. Thus, if they suffer, they really don't have anybody else to blame but themselves.


It is interesting to listen to all the journalists on the Russian state channels whining about how the West is waging an "economic war" against Russia. The sanctions have only been in place for a few months, and hope for a rebound in oil prices have only been dashed for less than a month, and the economy is already teetering on the brink. What will they do if oil prices stay at $50 or less for 3 years or more and if sanctions are kept in place for decades as they were in Cuba...


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 23, 2014, 02:07:05 AM
What will they do if oil prices stay at $50 or less for 3 years or more and if sanctions are kept in place for decades as they were in Cuba...

Answer:  Kill Putin long before that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 23, 2014, 02:18:08 AM
Answer:  Kill Putin long before that.


This from Gazeta.ru: [size=78%]http://www.gazeta.ru/business/news/2014/12/23/n_6770817.shtml (http://www.gazeta.ru/business/news/2014/12/23/n_6770817.shtml)[/size]


The headline: Саудовская Аравия не снизит добычу даже при цене нефти $20 за баррель or Saudi Arabia won't cut back on production even if the price of a barrel of oil goes down to $20 a barrel.


The article concludes by stating that oil prices may never return to $100 a barrel...


If this worst case scenario plays out, a certain country will be hooped  :o
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 23, 2014, 03:27:31 AM
In agreement with Misha as the sanctions from the West have been limited to access to credit and against a small number of very wealthy Russians. The idea of the USA waging sanctions against ordinary Russians is nothing more than a propaganda myth. The sanctions that are hurting ordinary Russians most are Putin's "reverse sanctions" that ban Western products and agricultural goods.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 23, 2014, 03:35:42 AM
Mende-the flow on affect as companies go to the wall an subsequent loss of jobs will impact at every level. The real bite is yet to come and is it widens in to what I believe will be a major collapse of the Russian economy  it will have widespread hurt to people.
The Kremlin propaganda machine was in gear early with all this( funnily enough) and it is painted as everyones fault but Russia's--how long people will keep believing that is the question.
Even when they do get the hang of it all-- what can they do?It is a stretch too far to think they might get their own Maidan  --more likely to get a worse dictator than Putin( and cronies )!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 04:55:48 AM
Why is
Putin not tell his population to blame the Saudis like he is with the Americans?
After all it is the low oil prices that is killing him much more than the effects of the sanctions...

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/saudi-oil-minister-hints-russia-doesnt-deserve-market-share-2014-12 (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/saudi-oil-minister-hints-russia-doesnt-deserve-market-share-2014-12)
He actually did s ay. whom to blame ( in a plane Russian) just a week ago
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 05:13:04 AM
Are you a former FSB officer?  Employed by the Russian government?  Commanding troops in Donbas?  If not, then your gun is irrelevant.
What kind of question is it? What if i say yes to all?
The gun is relevant because ak 47 are widely spread all over the world, leave alone FSU
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 23, 2014, 05:27:45 AM
I cannot believe there are western people on here trying to defend the Russian people.

The fact is that Putlers popularity in Russia has soared since he invaded and stole Crimea and since Ukrainians were being killed in eastern Ukraine.

Just like the Germans who turned a blind eye to the death camps in Germany during the second World War...no doubt western people on here would have been saying how lovely those Germans were.

You only have to see the smugness, arrogance and self-perceived feelings of nationalistic superiority of Russian posters like Doll and Belvis on here to see the Russian mentality....and what happened to the war-monger Die-cast who was previously gloating that the Ukrainians weren't fighting back ?
She's gone a bit quiet now.

The majority of Russians fully deserve any hardships they may or may not experience in the future...it's called karma.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 05:42:29 AM
Answer:  Kill Putin long before that.

IT is an open call to kill Russian president
Showden is watching
Вова, слышал? )))))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 23, 2014, 05:49:16 AM
Agree with Chelseaboy

The Russian people deserve this and more.  And they will get it unless they give us Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 23, 2014, 05:50:49 AM

IT is an open call to kill Russian president
Showden is watching
Вова, слышал? )))))

If he is listening, tell him he is a loser.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 05:57:38 AM
I cannot believe there are western people on here trying to defend the Russian people.

The fact is that Putlers popularity in Russia has soared since he invaded and stole Crimea and since Ukrainians were being killed in eastern Ukraine.

Just like the Germans who turned a blind eye to the death camps in Germany during the second World War...no doubt western people on here would have been saying how lovely those Germans were.

You only have to see the smugness, arrogance and self-perceived feelings of nationalistic superiority of Russian posters like Doll and Belvis on here to see the Russian mentality....and what happened to the war-monger Die-cast who was previously gloating that the Ukrainians weren't fighting back ?
She's gone a bit quiet now.

The majority of Russians fully deserve any hardships they may or may not experience in the future...it's called karma.
Sir, so that you know-it is a public forum stationed in the  USA which has freedom of speech AND respects  political correctness. Got it? Also, it is the forum (LOOK above)


that implies RUssian participants  who have ( believe it or nor) different approaches
So I do recommend you keep your mouth behind your teeth when you have an itch to personally attack.
Got it?
I forgot to ask you what to think and how to think
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 06:00:18 AM
If he is listening, tell him he is a loser.
It was recorded right away
Just food for thoughts for the Admin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 23, 2014, 06:05:46 AM
It was recorded right away
Just food for thoughts for the Admin

Smart.  Real smart.

So you mean to tell us Murderer Vova has his people on the RWD moderating staff?  Do tell.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 06:07:28 AM
Smart.  Real smart.

So you mean to tell us Murderer Vova has his people on the RWD moderating staff?  Do tell.
No, i have the direct connection to Edward
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on December 23, 2014, 06:17:57 AM
Yes Doll,unlike in your Russia,this is an open forum with freedom of speech within reason.

When you buy this forum then you can control what people say.

So,until that highly unlikely event happens,if i  say things you don't like..tough....got it ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 06:28:59 AM
Yes Doll,unlike in your Russia,this is an open forum with freedom of speech within reason.

When you buy this forum then you can control what people say.

So,until that highly unlikely event happens,if i  say things you don't like..tough....got it ?
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=16877.0
If you need any sort of definition- call me
You need to learn what freedom of speech means
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 23, 2014, 08:56:17 AM
What kind of question is it? What if i say yes to all?
The gun is relevant because ak 47 are widely spread all over the world, leave alone FSU


I have no idea why the availability of AK47's is relevant to the topic.  I don't know what you are trying to say.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 09:18:31 AM

I have no idea why the availability of AK47's is relevant to the topic.  I don't know what you are trying to say.
I am talking of weapon that is similar in FSU countries unless it is provided by other countris buy i doubt it  regarding Russia. You' re right, Russia  has very powerful weapon.
modern
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 23, 2014, 09:24:06 AM
Who is Edward?  Is he another honest Russian?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 23, 2014, 09:28:17 AM
I am talking of weapon that is similar in FSU countries unless it is provided by other countris buy i doubt it  regarding Russia. You' re right, Russia  has very powerful weapon.
modern


I still don't know what you are trying to say. 


My original point was that the weaponry available to the Ukrainian army was Soviet era Kalashnikovs.  It was not the modern weaponry the terrorists are using.


Whether AK47's are available widely throughout the FSU is irrelevant to that point.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 23, 2014, 10:31:01 AM
Russia does have powerful weapons. But, does Russia want the world to fear the Russian government? Why? How does that help the Russian people? It doesn't help them. The government of Russia looks barbaric. Putin is ruining Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 23, 2014, 10:43:42 AM
What kind of question is it? What if i say yes to all?
The gun is relevant because ak 47 are widely spread all over the world, leave alone FSU


Yes, but it is no longer the standard issue for the Russian Federation Army. They now use other machine guns instead of the AK-47.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 10:55:59 AM
Who is Edward?  Is he another honest Russian?
hahahahahahahahah
I guess now
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 23, 2014, 11:09:20 AM
Finally:  Among Bad News For Russia, there is Some GOOD news for Russia.

Russia's lower house of parliament rescinded the ban on advertising over the airwaves for Beer and Wine!

Apparently the original ban was created to curb the endemic and rampant alcoholism in Russia.  The rescission of the ban indicates a willingness on the part of the State to allow viewers to find their favorite beverages again.

Essentially, when things get bad, having a drunk and stuporous populace is an easier way to maintain control.  Now there's legislation I can really get behind!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 23, 2014, 12:11:51 PM
No, i have the direct connection to Edward

Edward Snowden?   8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 23, 2014, 01:42:17 PM
Sociologist: Russians in biggest cities feel the most pain from crisis
2014/12/23 • Russia


 
Article by: Paul A. Goble

Russians living in the largest cities, the people who benefited the most from the oil-driven boom of the last decade, now feel the greatest concern about the impact on their lives of the economic crisis because they are better informed than those in smaller ones and rural areas, a pattern that suggests how Vladimir Putin may now proceed.

On the one hand, the Kremlin leader cannot afford to have social unrest emerge in Russia’s megalopolises, the places from which revolutionary movements have most often come, and thus will be compelled to take measures to try to limit the impact of the downturn on these places while putting in place the forces to suppress any risings.

But on the other, this pattern suggests that Putin may look to Russians in smaller cities and rural areas as a base of support, a turn that could lead him to adopt an even more traditionalist, nationalist and Orthodox set of policies than he has done so far in the hopes of shoring up his political base lest he lose support from this sector.

The Kremlin has been successful in retaining support, Gudkov says, by an “unprecedented” propaganda campaign which has “convinced Russians that “in the south-east of Ukraine a genocide of the Russian population is taking place and that the rulers of our country are doing everything possible to defend [those people].”

Russians really continue to believe the Kremlin’s version of events, but the economic crisis and the worsening of the standard of living in Russia is gradually leading ever more of them to reassess what they are hearing from government outlets, and that trend will continue as long as the economic decline does, the sociologist says.

Few Russians ( and a 'few flat line' Brits from another venue) get reliable information about sanctions and other events because “approximately 94-95 percent of them” get it from state television. Only 18 percent go on-line for news. But even the Internet is not the accurate source many believe: the government has blocked many sites and put up its own as well.

 
Nonetheless, Gudkov continues, public attitudes about the war in Ukraine are changing. “Earlier 74 percent of the residents of the country supported the participation of Russian forces in military actions on the territory of Ukraine. Now [only] 35-38 percent do.” And the number supporting the annexation of Crimea has fallen ten to fifteen percent as well.

More to the point, only five or six percent of Russians are prepared to make any material sacrifice for the annexation of Crimea or military actions in Ukraine now, the analyst continues.

Approximately 80 percent of Russians are now feeling the impact of sanctions and counter-sanctions, he says, although most do not recognize that they suffer more from the latter than the former. “The residents of the megalopolises are already beginning to understand this because such cities are more dependent on imports.”

“The highest level of concern is found in Moscow, the most educated and informed city. Here,” Gudkov says, “people clearly recognize the causes of the crisis and its dawning sad consequences.” But two-thirds of the Russian population live in small cities and villages, and there, people “continue to believe” the Kremlin’s notion of a Western conspiracy against Russia.

But and this may matter in the future, even in these places, “an awakening is beginning.” So far, most of those outside of Moscow are taking things in stride but that will change as the crisis spread, although Gudkov said he would not predict when it would embrace a large fraction of the country.

The Levada Center head stressed that what he was saying is being found by all pollsters. Pro-government ones like VTsIOM and FOM may try to put the best face on things, but even they are going to report this because the Kremlin has to be concerned about what is going on in order to be in a position to take action.

In any case, he concludes, sociologists aren’t “capable of forming public opinion. It has been formed by government propaganda” up to now, but in the near future, it will be shaped by something else: “the worsening economic situation.” And that change presages serious problems for the regime.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/12/23/sociologist-russians-in-biggest-cities-feel-the-most-pain-from-crisis/

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 23, 2014, 02:01:47 PM
excerpt
Unnecessary Sacrifice


24 November 2014   Alexander Podrabinek     
 
"Two-thirds of Russian citizens continue to support the food embargo imposed by the Russian government in August 2014 despite its negative impact on the country’s economy. According to writer Alexander Podrabinek, this phenomenon derives from a legacy of Soviet thinking, upbringing, and way of life."


http://www.imrussia.org/en/opinions/2091-unnecessary-sacrifice

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 09:18:53 PM
Edward Snowden?   8)
Sure
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2014, 10:03:56 PM
Yes Doll,unlike in your Russia,this is an open forum with freedom of speech within reason.

When you buy this forum then you can control what people say.

So,until that highly unlikely event happens,if i  say things you don't like..tough....got it ?
UNLIKE  IN MY RUSSIA I AM surprised that here , in the BLESSED country with a  bunch of freedoms )))))) it is possible to openly call for killing a politician.
You need to really careful .
I am not kidding

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 23, 2014, 10:38:36 PM
UNLIKE  IN MY RUSSIA I AM surprised that here , in the BLESSED country with a  bunch of freedoms )))))) it is possible to openly call for killing a politician.
You need to really careful .
I am not kidding


Actually, he was merely surmising what the Russian populace would do if the economy collapses, which is not the same as "to openly call for killing a politician."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 23, 2014, 11:21:39 PM
I think bad politicians should be voted out of office, not killed. If Russia was a democracy, the citizens could theoretically vote Putin and Medvedev out of office. But, that's a joke, because Russia has a pseudo-democracy. It's really a dictatorship, like North Korea. If the politician is REALLY bad, death can be a good thing. For example: Hitler. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 24, 2014, 02:37:11 AM
UNLIKE  IN MY RUSSIA I AM surprised that here , in the BLESSED country with a  bunch of freedoms )))))) it is possible to openly call for killing a politician.


No one is advocating for the murder of huilo, because then huilo will become a martyr to all his crackpot supporters.

However there is no law against hoping for huilo to die in some painful or humiliating manner, is there?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 24, 2014, 02:53:41 AM
I am reminded of a couple of elderly women near the Lenin burial monstrosity on Red Square. They were saying prayers for Lenin and Stalin, and were asked how they could expect God to forgive two mass murderers. From the wisdom of their years they explained that no one is beyond God's mercy and forgiveness. All of us are sinners.

Personally the only prayer that I can muster for either man, and especially Stalin, is that the fires of hell burn brightest and hottest in their corners. However, as an Orthodox Christian I can also understand the principle of which they spoke.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on December 24, 2014, 02:54:45 AM
Russia does have powerful weapons. But, does Russia want the world to fear the Russian government?

The answer is obviously yes. In general Russian population remain faithful to their deep-seated belief that respect can be gained by dishing out fear.

Why? How does that help the Russian people?

It would appear that for the Russian people, the fact of having a strong leader, who has influence on world affairs and who is feared (=respected), is of greater importance than the goals he pursues by using his power.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 24, 2014, 03:02:02 AM
There is a deep fear based on the knowledge that they lost the "Cold War." That fear is unfortunately reinforced by the "rape and pillage" of Russian assets by Western individuals and corporations in the period immediately following the fall of the CCCP. They fear that the West is just like the Nazi's in the idea of robbing Russian resources and forcing Russians into cheap labour.

We may scoff, but the fear is real. Unfortunately, Western corporate and financial actions when Russia was on her knees has fed into this. We earned some of this reputation, sadly.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 24, 2014, 03:29:38 AM
It would appear that for the Russian people, the fact of having a strong leader, who has influence on world affairs and who is feared (=respected), is of greater importance than the goals he pursues by using his power.

Part of the problem, of course, is that "his" people don't actually know what he's doing to achieve those goals.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 25, 2014, 02:00:26 AM
Russia's Natural Gas Sales Plummet: Is Russia Captive To European Buyers?

The received wisdom is that Europe cannot offend Russia because it depends so much on Russian natural gas. We have this backwards. It should be: Russia cannot offend Europe because it depends too much on sales of natural gas sales to Europe.

The third quarter  2014 audit report of Gazprom , the Russian national gas company, shows a substantial decline in sales of Russian natural gas to Europe. The audit report hides the magnitude of the 2014 third quarter decline by reporting only sales for the first nine months of 2013 and 2014, not third quarter to third quarter figures. But analysts can readily separate out the third quarter results by subtracting out the first two quarters for each year.


Here are the results: In Europe, Gazprom sold 6 billion cubic meters less in the third quarter of 2014 compared to third quarter of 2013 (from 40 billion cubic meters to 34 billion, or a loss of 15%). The smallest decline was for France (3%); the largest was for Rumania (a whopping 93%). Sales to Germany, Gazprom’s largest buyer, fell 14%. Notably, the delivery declines in those countries that engaged in back-flow sales to Ukraine, like Slovakia and Poland, were not greater than in other countries.

At average European prices, the 15% decline in sales means a third quarter decline of $2.2 billion from the European market.

Russian gas exports to Commonwealth of Independent States countries fell by 8 billion cubic meters (by 62%). This drop is explained by the collapse in third quarter sales to Ukraine from 8.5 billion cubic meters to zero. At a price of $300, the decline in revenue from Ukraine equals $2.5 billion for the third quarter.

The decline in Gazprom’s deliveries and revenues cut deeply into Russia’s export earnings. For the year 2013, Russia earned $73 billion from natural gas exports. If the third quarter declines in sales were to continue at the same pace for a year, Russia’s earnings from natural gas to Europe would fall by $10 billion, which equals 15% of gas export sales worldwide. The Russian budget and the financially-strapped Gazprom can’t afford dollar losses of this magnitude.

Gazprom’s auditors’ discussion of risk factors should send chills down the spines of its shareholders. They warn that if Gazprom must conform to Europe’s requirement that its production and transportation divisions be broken up (and its pipelines opened to third parties), Gazprom will lose its failing monopoly hold over the European market. The Gazprom report warns about the risks of transporting gas through Ukraine (without mentioning the war going on there), and offers the South Stream pipeline as a solution without mentioning that this project has been shelved.  Moreover, the auditors do not mention that Russian propaganda had flooded European media with warnings of the unreliability of transport through Ukraine. With respect to sanctions, Gazprom warns that they might “somewhat” complicate relations with partners, but that Gazprom is undertaking measures “to protect its business reputation.”

Russia’s dependence on the Ukrainian natural gas market (despite current complaints of nonpayments) has gone largely unnoticed. In the past, Gazprom sales to Ukraine have equaled about 20% of sales to Europe, making Ukraine a trading partner roughly equal to Germany. As the accompanying chart shows, Gazprom’s Ukraine gas market would disappear if Ukraine reformed its energy market to eliminate the waste that makes it one of the world’s least efficient energy users. It appears that reform of its energy market stands high on the to-do list of the new Ukrainian government.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/12/24/russias-natural-gas-sales-plummet-is-russia-captive-to-european-buyers/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 25, 2014, 11:03:59 AM
New Freshly updated satellite image of Krym w/o electricity ! ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 26, 2014, 07:47:42 AM
Warning! Contains Graphic Images !

Merry Christmas VVP.


Ice Cream, Corpses, and the Big Bear: Repatriating Dead Russians From Ukraine

http://news.vice.com/article/best-of-vice-news-2014-ice-cream-corpses-and-the-big-bear-repatriating-dead-russians-from-ukraine?utm_source=vicenewsfb
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on December 26, 2014, 11:24:33 AM
Bad News For Russia:
   1- Ukraine is afraid of Russia
   2- Ukraine is not afraid of the EU
Putin is ruining Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 26, 2014, 05:52:51 PM
http://www.inquisitr.com/1705162/angry-russians-use-american-flags-to-wipe-their-feet-in-protest-toward-economic-sanctions-video/

Like that's really going to change things and get their country out of the recession!

Better still, why don't those patriotic Russians demonstrate their patriotism by setting on fire all those 100 US Dollar bills that they have stashed under their mattress?
 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 26, 2014, 05:58:54 PM
http://www.inquisitr.com/1705162/angry-russians-use-american-flags-to-wipe-their-feet-in-protest-toward-economic-sanctions-video/

Like that's really going to change things and get their country out of the recession!

Better still, why don't those patriotic Russians demonstrate their patriotism by setting on fire all those 100 US Dollar bills that they have stashed under their mattress?
 :ROFL:

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 27, 2014, 02:17:54 PM
$1 = 50 rubles
I barrel iil is $80
It is today
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2014, 02:23:51 PM
Oil is at just under $60 a barrel today.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 27, 2014, 02:55:59 PM
$1 = 50 rubles
I barrel iil is $80
It is today
Doll--this is not 50-- as you can see. The rubble has improved slightly in the last week- as the currency market celebrates Christmas and volumes are down.You can expect the new year to see the rubble continue it's downward slide then-- so please--make sure you report back to us when that happens.
1.00 USD  = 53.8375 RUB 
US Dollar ↔ Russian Ruble
1 USD = 53.8375 RUB 1 RUB = 0.0185744 USD
 
Convert again
  RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart 
Mid-market rates: 2014-12-27 21:49 UTC   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 27, 2014, 04:00:30 PM
Oil is at just under $60 a barrel today.
http://www.gazeta.ru/business/2014/12/26/6360205.shtml
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 27, 2014, 04:02:58 PM
Doll--this is not 50-- as you can see. The rubble has improved slightly in the last week- as the currency market celebrates Christmas and volumes are down.You can expect the new year to see the rubble continue it's downward slide then-- so please--make sure you report back to us when that happens.
1.00 USD  = 53.8375 RUB 
US Dollar ↔ Russian Ruble
1 USD = 53.8375 RUB 1 RUB = 0.0185744 USD
 
Convert again
  RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart 
Mid-market rates: 2014-12-27 21:49 UTC
http://www.google.com/#q=курс+доллара

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 27, 2014, 05:08:07 PM
And the Ukrainian grivna is doing really awesome right now . . . ,
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 27, 2014, 05:20:05 PM
And the Ukrainian grivna is doing really awesome right now . . . ,
http://www.banki.ru/products/currency/uah/
2012
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 27, 2014, 05:24:03 PM
http://www.banki.ru/products/currency/uah/
2012

Which part of 'common sense" do you not get? What is happening to UAH is irrelevant to the rubble. Ukraine is trying to create a future-- Russia wants to go backwards 50 years-- and thanks to Putin it will be going there .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 27, 2014, 05:32:23 PM
...the rubble...
Interesting Freudian slip ;D.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 27, 2014, 05:32:45 PM
Which part of 'common sense" do you not get? What is happening to UAH is irrelevant to the rubble. Ukraine is trying to create a future-- Russia wants to go backwards 50 years-- and thanks to Putin it will be going there .
i can borrow you half of brain- just click the currency
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 27, 2014, 05:34:10 PM
Interesting Freudian slip ;D .
he just can not spell
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 27, 2014, 05:57:46 PM
http://www.gazeta.ru/business/2014/12/26/6360205.shtml (http://www.gazeta.ru/business/2014/12/26/6360205.shtml)
Irrelevant.  The price of crude closed at under $60 today.

http://www.oil-price.net/ (http://www.oil-price.net/)
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 27, 2014, 06:16:59 PM
http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/crude-oil-brent.aspx

$ 59.45 actually
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 27, 2014, 07:08:03 PM
Instead of just complaining about low oil prices, why don't the midget take the initiative to reduce world oil supply by shutting down his Siberian oil fields?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 27, 2014, 07:55:29 PM
Why would anyone care what someone puts in a budget?  Am I to understand that the prognosticators for Russia think that the price of crude is going to hover at $80 / barrel, this year?

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

This self delusion is incredible!  At the current state of affairs we will be lucky to average $60 / barrel in 2015.  A closer guess would be $40.    Of course the Russian economy tanks at $60 and is absolutely in depression at $40, so maybe the government is lying to the people to try to save face.  Who knows?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 27, 2014, 09:12:44 PM
So Doll you have just been caught red handed trying to lie to us!

 :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

Telling fibs about the current price of oil being $80, and linking some article written in Russian to pretend to add credibility...
When that article is just an opinion piece, saying the price of oil basically could be anything next year.

Your handlers at the Kremlin Propaganda Ministry wouldn't be happy that your fibs got exposed so easily.  :ROFL:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 28, 2014, 12:01:05 AM
Smart!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 28, 2014, 12:19:06 AM
So Doll you have just been caught red handed trying to lie to us!

 :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

Telling fibs about the current price of oil being $80, and linking some article written in Russian to pretend to add credibility...
When that article is just an opinion piece, saying the price of oil basically could be anything next year.

Your handlers at the Kremlin Propaganda Ministry wouldn't be happy that your fibs got exposed so easily.  :ROFL:
if you still remember English. The  says  that SAUDY will keep the oil price at min $80 a barrel in spite of what the US wants
FYI next year starts in 3 days
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 28, 2014, 12:23:05 AM
Professional investors specializing in helping Russians to invest their money in the USA report a record number of phone calls.  Perhaps Putin's attempts to halt capital outflow from Russia are failing?


excerpt
"Marlen Kruzhkov, a lawyer at Gusrae Kaplan Nusbaum PLLC and an ethnic Russian from East Ukraine, who helps Russian clients evaluate investment opportunities in the U.S., said calls that he usually receives from Russians looking to invest in the U.S have more than doubled since last year.

“I would tell you at least twice as many people are calling than usual, and a lot of the folks who are calling who were skeptical about [investing] in the U.S. are all of a sudden saying they wish they did it sooner,” Kruzhkov said.

The Russian rush for the exit comes as the embattled country’s citizens have been seeking to preserve their wealth amid a cratering ruble, which on Tuesday suffered its most spectacular slide since 1998, when Moscow defaulted on its domestic debts. The dollar has been hitting all-time highs against the Russian currency. "

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/collapsing-ruble-has-wealthy-russians-scrambling-to-invest-in-the-us-2014-12-17

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 28, 2014, 12:30:51 AM
if you still remember English. The  says  that SAUDY will keep the oil price at min $80 a barrel in spite of what the US wants
FYI next year starts in 3 days

Doll the price of oil cannot be controlled by the Saudi's alone.  The reason that they increased their production and lowered the price is because they do not want US shale manufacturers to take away their market share.

There is currently a glut (more oil than buyers) on the World market which is why the price per barrel of oil is on a downward spiral.  There really is not much Putin can do about it either.  If he stops Russian oil production he immediately gives up market share to the Americans and Saudi's.  If he doesn't stop it the price keeps going down.  And his own countrymen are working against him:


"Ironically, Kruzhkov notes that he’s seeing Russian investors purchase land in high growth areas around the U.S. shale-oil boom, which is less likely to lose value. U.S. shale-oil producers are often attributed with helping to contribute to the glut of oil slushing around global markets.

“One guy bought land in North Dakota and built housing for workers,” Kruzhkov said. “He has 98% occupancy on the houses he built and he’s in the process of refinancing the property. He couldn’t be happier that he went out there and took that risk.”


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/collapsing-ruble-has-wealthy-russians-scrambling-to-invest-in-the-us-2014-12-17

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 28, 2014, 01:12:21 AM
if you still remember English. The  says  that SAUDY will keep the oil price at min $80 a barrel in spite of what the US wants
FYI next year starts in 3 days

And in 3 days time if the price of oil does not start trending back towards $80 will you start blaming your midget president?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 28, 2014, 02:29:02 AM
A group of Russian FSB special forces disappears near Lugansk.

http://divannaya-sotnya.com.ua/Oblomov/v-genshtabe-rf-shokirovany-ischeznoveniem-celoy-gruppy-rossiyskogo-specnaza-pod-lisichanskom.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 02:16:56 AM
Enjoy
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 29, 2014, 02:43:22 AM
What does the caption next to that mongoloid midget say?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 02:48:03 AM
[quote author=sleepycat link=topic his Siberian o

guess why
You have 12 guesses
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 29, 2014, 03:23:16 AM
For the last time Doll, do not go around editing my quotes. In my original quote I specifically used the word 'midget', not 'Putin' like what you changed it to. Weren't you the one complaining earlier about another poster editing one of your quotes? If you don't like my quotes, then don't quote me. It really is that simple! Now for your reading pleasure:
PUTIN=MIDGET PUTIN=MIDGET PUTIN=MIDGET PUTIN=MIDGET PUTIN=MIDGET PUTIN=MIDGET PUTIN=MIDGET
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 29, 2014, 04:02:16 AM
Those images could be printed out and used for TP! :D

That'd be a wonderful way to start the New Year!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 04:42:29 AM

PUTIN is our President

it is a free country
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 04:50:24 AM
Those images could be printed out and used for TP! :D

That'd be a wonderful way to start the New Year!
More
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 04:51:06 AM
What does the caption next to that mongoloid midget say?
Не скажу
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 29, 2014, 05:05:24 AM
Have you ever been called vatnik before?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 05:07:19 AM
Mike, do you what it means? Ну просто!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 05:12:23 AM
Mike just for you
Это ватник
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 05:32:49 AM
Sleepy, moderators reacted only literary two time
This board keeps calling for death and violence
Mod's
' pm are blocked
Ok i will do something else


Who is the owner of this site? Just wanted to say hi to him





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 29, 2014, 05:34:07 AM
Yep, the quilted jacket is one meaning.. But I didn't mean that one! :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 05:44:16 AM
Yep, the quilted jacket is one meaning.. But I didn't mean that one! :D
Get another one
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 05:47:31 AM
Like this one? It is brighter
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 29, 2014, 05:53:53 AM
Doll, why do you take it personally when we mock that stupid Supreme Leader of yours?
You don't see the British readers of this board getting upset when David Cameron is mocked.
And you certainly don't see the American readers of this board getting upset when Obama is mocked.

So what makes that midget mongoloid so special that he deserves our utmost respect?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 06:04:06 AM
Doll, why do you take it personally when we mock that stupid Supreme Leader of yours?
You don't see the British readers of this board getting upset when David Cameron is mocked.
And you certainly don't see the American readers of this board getting upset when Obama is mocked.

So what makes that midget mongoloid so special that he deserves our utmost respect?
then why di YOU personalyy when your quoat was changed?
He is not mongoloid
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 06:43:43 AM
Sped- special education
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 29, 2014, 06:52:07 AM
You still don't get it.. Try Google to learn Russian. :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 29, 2014, 06:56:32 AM
Although Putin is a mongoloid, we don't care because he is strong!

Interesting...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 07:05:43 AM
[quote author=sleepycat link=topic=P
Putin is the best
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 07:07:00 AM
Interesting..
Long live to Putin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 29, 2014, 07:10:08 AM
Yup,,, A true blue, white and red vatnik.. :(
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 29, 2014, 07:10:22 AM
Putin is the best at kneeling on broken glass.

Totally agree...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 07:14:47 AM
Yup,,, A true blue, white and red vatnik.. :(
I want one!!!!!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 07:41:28 AM
Путину ура!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 29, 2014, 07:52:30 AM
hey doll, what do you tell those Russian mommies that lose their only sons in this war that is not going on in Ukraine?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 29, 2014, 11:04:16 AM
It's official. Russia back in recession.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-november-gdp-down-0-073332219.html

That mongoloid midget Putin should really give himself a pat on the back for running his economy into the ground!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on December 29, 2014, 11:20:34 AM
Enjoy


You too.  ;)


(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/thebear_zpsc92232f2.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 29, 2014, 01:36:45 PM
I want one!!!!!!

Ask nice and maybe Ded Moroz will add you to the list of millions that want one!


http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/12/23/putin-voodoo-doll-seeking-donations-on-kickstarter/


LMAO!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 29, 2014, 02:00:43 PM
A local friend here in Ukraine (born in Russia) needed to get a police report for a K-1 visa to the states. The Russian Embassy in Kyiv wanted $100 USD for a bribe to get it done. NYET RUBLES... Dollars!  :D ROFL

 It's pretty sad when they don't accept their own currency for a bribe.. :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 29, 2014, 02:14:22 PM
Since the Ruble is once again in a free fall mode here's 9 Ruble jokes to end the year!


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/nine-ruble-jokes-to-end-the-year-with-a-laugh/513932.html


Let's hope for many more at this same time next year. Maybe they'll even officially change the name to the rubble.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2014, 10:24:04 PM
A local friend here in Ukraine (born in Russia) needed to get a police report for a K-1 visa to the states. The Russian Embassy in Kyiv wanted $100 USD for a bribe to get it done. NYET RUBLES... Dollars!  :D ROFL

 It's pretty sad when they don't accept their own currency for a bribe.. :D
bs


Russian embassy in Kiev has nothing to do with k 1 visa
Police reports are not issued by the embassy
This post is  a pure scam
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 29, 2014, 10:27:29 PM
More Russians tied to the death of whistle-blower Magnitstky are placed on a blacklist.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-blacklists-more-russians-tied-to-whistleblower-death/ar-BBhkOZi?ocid=AARDHP
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 29, 2014, 11:24:03 PM
bs


Russian embassy in Kiev has nothing to do with k 1 visa
Police reports are not issued by the embassy
This post is  a pure scam


The law states that in Russia, MVD offices must provide the certificate within 30 days. Those residing outside Russia (both Russian citizens and non-citizens) may either delegate a power of attorney to apply for the certificate on their behalf in Russia, or apply directly to the Russian consulate.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 29, 2014, 11:45:56 PM
bs


Russian embassy in Kiev has nothing to do with k 1 visa
Police reports are not issued by the embassy
This post is  a pure scam

What are Russians saying about the bodies coming back from Ukraine of Russian soldiers?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 29, 2014, 11:49:46 PM

Quote
doll  bs


Russian embassy in Kiev has nothing to do with k 1 visa
Police reports are not issued by the embassy
This post is  a pure scam


The law states that in Russia, MVD offices must provide the certificate within 30 days. Those residing outside Russia (both Russian citizens and non-citizens) may either delegate a power of attorney to apply for the certificate on their behalf in Russia, or apply directly to the Russian consulate.

what say you doll ?? still BS or are you incorrect about your countrys legislation  ?

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 30, 2014, 01:44:33 AM
Quote
What are Russians saying about the bodies coming back from Ukraine of Russian soldiers?

The general population largely remains in the dark, albeit the news is starting to seep out. You can only hide deaths of the mother's sons for so long, and midnight burials in small towns, even with unmarked graves, begin to be noticed.

So far, the military continues to notify families of "training accidents" that frequently happen along the Ukrainian border.  :(
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 30, 2014, 05:14:08 AM
Путин маладец))))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 30, 2014, 05:20:24 AM
Doll why are you changing my quotes into unintelligible gibberish?
If you don't know how to write in English then don't touch the keyboard!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 30, 2014, 05:23:44 AM
Doll why are you changing my quotes into unintelligible gibberish?
If you don't know how to write in English then don't touch the keyboard!
I forgot to ask you what to do
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 30, 2014, 05:27:23 AM
I forgot to ask you what to do

Ask that Putin mongoloid midget what to do then...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 30, 2014, 06:00:38 AM
Thank you Mendy, but I want to hear from Doll.  The other members tell us how smart she is.  Let her prove it.

Doll, tell us about Load 200 and Load 300.  Why are so many Russian boys from small families dead or wounded from Ukraine?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 30, 2014, 09:07:44 AM
Ask that Putin mongoloid midget what to do then...
btw he is Jew
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 30, 2014, 10:21:28 AM
Doll why are you changing my quotes into unintelligible gibberish?
If you don't know how to write in English then don't touch the keyboard!


It is somewhat ironic that a Russian word was misspelled. It is мОлОдец and not мАлАдец.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 30, 2014, 11:11:08 AM
btw he is Jew

Real classy Doll...
So now you are anti-Semitic as well as a mongoloid midget Putin follower.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on December 30, 2014, 05:37:03 PM
what say you doll ?? still BS or are you incorrect about your countrys legislation  ?

SX

whats happened doll ?your proud russian lets eat dirt principles wont let you admit you where wrong here with your BS comment ?

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 30, 2014, 05:45:20 PM
Meanwhile the price of oil keeps dropping like a rock.


http://www.oil-price.net/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 30, 2014, 06:14:09 PM
Meanwhile the price of oil keeps dropping like a rock.


http://www.oil-price.net/

Watched an interview today where the guy said that $40/barrel was a given in 2015.  He then proceeded to say that we'd probably hit $30.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 30, 2014, 07:11:02 PM
Houston oil & gas is on a hiring freeze.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 30, 2014, 07:16:25 PM
Watched an interview today where the guy said that $40/barrel was a given in 2015.  He then proceeded to say that we'd probably hit $30.


This I have a hard time believing....I don't see 30 dollar oil...I think 40 is unlikely to stay for very long, (if it gets there)...but I do see some experts are saying that it will...  If it does go that low, I would think it would be coupled with economic problems here at home...and that is concerning...Of course I love the idea of cheaper gasoline. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 30, 2014, 08:15:59 PM
Do you want a bet?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 30, 2014, 08:30:30 PM
Do you want a bet?


Which statement in particular are you talking about betting on?


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 30, 2014, 08:57:33 PM
I think all of it is on shaky ground
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on December 30, 2014, 09:01:04 PM
What are Russians saying about the bodies coming back from Ukraine of Russian soldiers?
United States[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan&action=edit&section=37)]Main article: United States Forces casualties in the war in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan)Of the United States deaths, more than 1,830 have died in hostile action. Included in these numbers are 12 CIA operatives that were killed in Afghanistan: seven in a suicide bomb attack on a military base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_Operating_Base_Chapman_attack), two in an ambush, one in a shooting attack at the U.S. embassy in Kabul, one in a prison uprising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Qala-i-Jangi) in November 2001, and one in an accident.[4][165] The independent website iCasualties has put the total number of U.S. deaths at 2,254.[166] This number is by nine higher than the Department of Defense's tally which is 2,245, when including the intelligence operatives.[165]
Since the start of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan, 19,934 U.S. service members have been wounded in hostile action, according to the Defense Department.[165]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on December 30, 2014, 09:03:33 PM
Thank you Mendy, but I want to hear from Doll.  The other members tell us how smart she is.  Let her prove it.

Doll, tell us about Load 200 and Load 300.  Why are so many Russian boys from small families dead or wounded from Ukraine?United States[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan&action=edit&section=37)]Main article: United States Forces casualties in the war in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan)Of the United States deaths, more than 1,830 have died in hostile action. Included in these numbers are 12 CIA operatives that were killed in Afghanistan: seven in a suicide bomb attack on a military base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_Operating_Base_Chapman_attack), two in an ambush, one in a shooting attack at the U.S. embassy in Kabul, one in a prison uprising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Qala-i-Jangi) in November 2001, and one in an accident.[4][165] The independent website iCasualties has put the total number of U.S. deaths at 2,254.[166] This number is by nine higher than the Department of Defense's tally which is 2,245, when including the intelligence operatives.[165]
Since the start of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan, 19,934 U.S. service members have been wounded in hostile action, according to the Defense Department.[165]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on December 30, 2014, 09:06:56 PM
The general population largely remains in the dark, albeit the news is starting to seep out. You can only hide deaths of the mother's sons for so long, and midnight burials in small towns, even with unmarked graves, begin to be noticed.

So far, the military continues to notify families of "training accidents" that frequently happen along the Ukrainian border.  :(
United States[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan&action=edit&section=37)]Main article: United States Forces casualties in the war in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan)Of the United States deaths, more than 1,830 have died in hostile action. Included in these numbers are 12 CIA operatives that were killed in Afghanistan: seven in a suicide bomb attack on a military base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_Operating_Base_Chapman_attack), two in an ambush, one in a shooting attack at the U.S. embassy in Kabul, one in a prison uprising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Qala-i-Jangi) in November 2001, and one in an accident.[4][165] The independent website iCasualties has put the total number of U.S. deaths at 2,254.[166] This number is by nine higher than the Department of Defense's tally which is 2,245, when including the intelligence operatives.[165]
Since the start of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan, 19,934 U.S. service members have been wounded in hostile action, according to the Defense Department.[165]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on December 30, 2014, 09:20:01 PM
Rolling on the floor of your "brightness", mendileev &Co, that "the general population remains in the dark about the Russian casualties", costs, etc.
Is the  US population  in an assorted state of nirvana about the casualties as well as the tax dollars spent... on what?. Where are the results? Taliban has only got stronger. Casualties among civilians only more, deaths among US troops in thousands....Are YOU "in the dark" or "in the light" ?
Folks, about 700 bln of the  tax dollars has been spent in Afganistan alone, with no results.
 http://www.statista.com/statistics/271526/us-war-costs-in-iraq-and-afghanistan/ (http://www.statista.com/statistics/271526/us-war-costs-in-iraq-and-afghanistan/) 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on December 30, 2014, 09:24:25 PM
Ludmila, the number of dead Russian soldiers in Afghanistan was seven times the American number. And that was a period which was shorter by five years. 

There are thought to be over 4,000 killed Russian soldiers in your brief Ukrainian expedition.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on December 30, 2014, 09:39:27 PM
Alex, sources, please.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 30, 2014, 09:57:14 PM
One of the wonderful things about living in a country such as ours is the ability to reach out and grab information.   Now, with all sources of information dictated by the State, in Russia, access to information isn't as retrievable.  One should take that into account when citing US sources and then stating that events didn't exist in Russia because the information is not available.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on December 30, 2014, 10:36:17 PM
Alex, sources, please.

Dead and wounded Russian soldier numbers during the eight year Soviet incursion as disclosed by Gen. Aleksei D. Lizichev during a press conference. I wonder how much of a lowball General Lizichev was asked to throw out there on his numbers  ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/26/world/soviet-lists-afghan-war-toll-13310-dead-35478-wounded.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/26/world/soviet-lists-afghan-war-toll-13310-dead-35478-wounded.html)

Elena Vasilieva and her group of mothers have the number of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine at over 4,000 already. I am sure you can look her up in Russia for yourself. The UN says it is 3,000. Maybe Elena's estimate is a bit high? My money says it is probably higher with many families too afraid or proud to speak up for their loved ones.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 30, 2014, 11:43:22 PM
Facts are not good enough for "these people."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 31, 2014, 12:03:49 AM
Dead and wounded Russian soldier numbers during the eight year Soviet incursion as disclosed by Gen. Aleksei D. Lizichev during a press conference. I wonder how much of a lowball General Lizichev was asked to throw out there on his numbers  ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/26/world/soviet-lists-afghan-war-toll-13310-dead-35478-wounded.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/26/world/soviet-lists-afghan-war-toll-13310-dead-35478-wounded.html)

Elena Vasilieva and her group of mothers have the number of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine at over 4,000 already. I am sure you can look her up in Russia for yourself. The UN says it is 3,000. Maybe Elena's estimate is a bit high? My money says it is probably higher with many families too afraid or proud to speak up for their loved ones.

Don't you know, Sasha? 

Elena Vasilieva is a provocateur and has been arrested for fraud.  I heard she was also seen at a Georgian restaurant, not one in Atlanta.   We are in the middle of the great Dis-Information campaign.  In the olden days it used to just be called the "Big Soviet Lie".

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 31, 2014, 12:07:42 AM
Wow!  I thought this forum was about the former Soviet Union and that this thread was about the situation in Ukraine caused by Russia.

Who knew that US deaths in Afghanistan had anything to do with all of the Russian soldiers dying while on "vacation" in Eastern Ukraine?

Yet another internet pro-Russian apologist come to tell us so.   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 31, 2014, 01:31:18 AM
Alex, sources, please.

They all have a single source about killed Russian soldiers in Ukraine: ОБС (одна бабка сказала, one grandma told, in this particular case: activist Vasilieva). 
That's  destiny of losers, be fed by politically motivated rumors  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 31, 2014, 03:39:53 AM
bs


Russian embassy in Kiev has nothing to do with k 1 visa
Police reports are not issued by the embassy
This post is  a pure scam

 Again a reading comprehension problem..

 Because she was born in Muskovi she needed a police report from there for the application.. The Embassy will furnish that in lieu of travel to the hated neighbor to the north.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 31, 2014, 03:44:44 AM
They all have a single source about killed Russian soldiers in Ukraine: ОБС (одна бабка сказала, one grandma told, in this particular case: activist Vasilieva). 
That's  destiny of losers, be fed by politically motivated rumors  :)

You were previously asked to provide a source to show she was discredited-- you failed to do so !!

What is your source?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on December 31, 2014, 04:21:41 AM

That's  destiny of losers, be fed by politically motivated rumors  :)


You mean like a certain president of a certain federation who dredged up an urban legend based on a statement that was never said by Madeleine Albright, traced back to a "mind reader" that has been proven false countless times, that she proposed that Russia be split up and its resources redistributed to the world?


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/19/world/europe/putin-cites-claim-about-us-designs-on-siberia-traced-to-russian-mind-readers.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/19/world/europe/putin-cites-claim-about-us-designs-on-siberia-traced-to-russian-mind-readers.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 31, 2014, 09:48:44 AM
If Madeline Albright said those words, and she said she didn't, it would have been the smartest thing she said ever.

Like that NK nuke deal for starters . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 31, 2014, 10:19:50 AM
Quote
You mean like a certain president of a certain federation who dredged up an urban legend based on a statement that was never said by Madeleine Albright, traced back to a "mind reader" that has been proven false countless times, that she proposed that Russia be split up and its resources redistributed to the world?

And the leader of the same government whose state-controlled television documentaries hit pieces portray Ukrainians as cannibals who devour ethnic Russian children at the dinner table.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 31, 2014, 10:41:33 AM
Tell Mrs. Tumanov her dead son is a figment of Western posters' imaginations.


http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/29/russias-body-count-is-rising-in-ukraine-despite-army-officials-denials/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on December 31, 2014, 10:44:39 AM
Having read a number of different pieces on the number of Russian soldiers killed in action in Eastern Ukraine, I have come to the conclusion that the number of active Russian military killed in action is greatly lower than the above mentioned figures. 

Plausible deniability:  The simple truth is that, since August, Russia has actively supplied the fighting force in Eastern Ukraine with tanks, heavy equipment and ammunition.    It has also supplied said same force with military people.  But here is where it gets tricky!  Russia is using EVERY TRICK IN THE BOOK to make sure that the people it is sending over to Ukraine are not on the books as active military when they are crossing the border.

While I am not an analyst, I can say with some degree of accuracy, that almost every Russian soldier stationed at the Ukrainian border has been requested to volunteer to participate in the fighting.  My guess would be that an officer comes by and talks to a small group of men or an individual and presses them for commitment.  Most of these soldiers, already on the front, are young conscripts.  The sales pitch is uniform - support the Russian people in Ukraine fighting for their lives.  Volunteer to leave your unit and reassemble on the other side of the border, without rank or indicators of your former Russian military unit.

In the current state of affairs, this recruitment works because the needs are not great.  The attrition of the current fighting unit is rather minimal.  However, last August, it wasn't.  At that time the UA forces were threatening to completely surround and cut off all of Donetsk and Lugansk.    The requirements of war did not have time to manipulate this arm twisting.  Russia simply sent the units in.

Most of the acknowledged Russian casualties occurred at this time.  It was these soldiers, while stabilizing the situation, that were the KIAs that Kremlin defenders will grudgingly acknowledge.  So, the figures that Russians privately point to are only a couple of hundred dead in Ukraine (at the most).    They don't acknowledged the kids who were arm twisted by their COs to abandon their units and reassemble as 'freedom fighters' across the border.

To anyone reading this who is not a Kremlin apologist, you can imagine the disgust I am writing this with.  To trick your young people into fighting a war that the country does not acknowledge and then to disavow their sacrifice on a technicality is beyond reprehensible. 

So, yes, actual armed services personnel KIA in Ukraine, much lower than the figures stated above.  But if the Kremlin apologists can actually come on this forum (or any other media outlet) and disavow the deaths of their countrymen, I would tell these people that shame is great upon them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 31, 2014, 10:50:14 AM
tell these people that shame is great upon them.

300% agree
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 31, 2014, 07:50:41 PM
$1 = 50 rubles
I barrel oil is $80
It is today

Oil keeps dropping.  Down another .85 cents today.  It's got a long way to hit $80 in the New Year.   :devil:

http://www.oil-price.net/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 31, 2014, 07:59:52 PM
the Empire will strike back
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on December 31, 2014, 08:43:43 PM
I've fixed up your quote with the correct current figures Doll. No need to thank me...  ;)

$1 = 50 60 rubles
I barrel iil is $80 53
It is today
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2014, 08:54:47 PM
I think all of it is on steady    ground
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 31, 2014, 09:11:23 PM


Wow. Now I know why others flipped out when you did this.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 31, 2014, 09:13:46 PM
AC, if you were a high heeled botox crazed 63 year president of a gas station with nukes, what would you do to get that price up?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 31, 2014, 09:22:42 PM
I've fixed up your quote with the correct current figures Doll. No need to thank me...  ;)

SC--in case Doll missed it-- new year hiatus over and rubble heading to oblivium again!!

1.00 USD   =   60.5433 RUB
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Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2014, 09:56:05 PM
AC, if you were a high heeled botox crazed 63 year president of a gas station with nukes, what would you do to get that price up?
launch another modern weapon
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 31, 2014, 10:18:05 PM
AC, if you were a high heeled botox crazed 63 year president of a gas station with nukes, what would you do to get that price up?

Stop Russian soldiers from vacationing in E. Ukraine and give Crimea back to the rightful owner -- Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on December 31, 2014, 10:47:50 PM
To raise the gas price to $ 80, I would need to create geopolitical instability.  A nuclear, biological or chemical attack by a middle Eastern proxy state. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on December 31, 2014, 11:01:46 PM
To raise the gas price to $ 80, I would need to create geopolitical instability.  A nuclear, biological or chemical attack by a middle Eastern proxy state.

Iran and Syria. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 01, 2015, 12:49:01 PM
Report: Russia May Supply Su-24 Aircraft To Argentina In Exchange For Food

..."WARSAW and LONDON — Russia and Argentina are eyeing a deal under which Moscow would lease 12 Sukhoi Su-24 Fencer aircraft to Buenos Aires in return for beef and wheat, the London-based paper Sunday Express has claimed.

As a result, the British Defence Ministry has reportedly launched a review of the air defenses of the Falkland Islands.

In a statement, the MoD said it regularly reviews the military situation around the south Atlantic islands and would adjust force levels on the Falklands to meet any new threat posed by Argentina.

"The MoD undertakes regular assessments of potential military threats to the Falkland Islands to ensure that we retain an appropriate level of defensive capability to address any threats. We continue to remain vigilant and committed to the protection of the Falkland Islanders," it said.

The UK and Argentina, who call the islands the Malivinas, were involved in a short but bloody war in 1982 over ownership of the disputed islands in the South Atlantic.

The dispute has been given new life in recent years by Argentinean President Cristina Kirchener making reclaiming the islands a central plank of her policy.

British analysts said Argentina's acquisition of a credible combat jet force could significantly tilt the strategic balance in favor of Buenos Aires, unless London reinforces the Falklands.

The Falklands are protected by four Royal Air Force Typhoon jets, Rapier surface-to-air missiles, and fewer than 1,200 troops, supported by a warship.

Doug Barrie, the senior air analyst at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London and an expert on Russian aircraft and weapons, said that even with only four Typhoons, the British would come off better in any fight with a squadron's worth of the Su-24.

"I'd back four Typhoons every day of the week against the threat posed by the 1960/1970s technology of the Russian jet," he said.

The Su-24MK is a twin-engine, all-weather land and maritime attack aircraft with a flight range of 2,775 kilometers, according to data from Sukhoi.

Barrie said just how effective the Su-24 would be in the hands of the Argentine Air Force depended on the weapons package that came as part of any deal with the Russians.

"The Su-24 is not what Argentina needs. They have competent crews but they need a multi-role platform not a single-role air-to-surface aircraft, which is expensive to fly and expensive to maintain," he said.

Argentine press reports said Defence Minister Agustin Rossi has denied there is any new defense deal with Russia for fighter jets.

The Argentine Air Force is known to be in the market for a fighter jet to replace the obsolete fleet of Skyhawk and Mirage III aircraft it has operated for several decades.

The possible sale of second-hand Mirage 2000 and Kfir aircraft have been discussed.

Most recently a possible sale of Saab Gripen aircraft was raised by Argentina, but any possibility of that deal taking off was rapidly scotched by the British government.

British companies supply about 30 percent of the new Gripen NG model and the London said it would block any move to sell the advanced Swedish jet to Argentina.

Russian jets or the Chinese FC-1/JF-17 are often touted as potential platforms for the Argentine Air Force.

The hard-up Argentine government won parliamentary approval recently for an economic and investment deal with China.

In 2010, Moscow and Buenos Aires signed a deal under which Russia delivered two Mil Mi-17 helicopters to the country's Air Force, marking Argentina's first purchase of Russian military hardware.

This month, the two sides also struck a deal for Moscow to provide four second-hand tug/supply ships to the Armada Argentina.

In July, Russian President Vladimir Putin paid an official visit to Argentina, possibly paving the way for the deal.

Imports of Argentinian food and goods are viewed as an attempt to bypass Western sanctions imposed on Russia following the country's intervention in Ukraine and its annexation of the Crimean peninsula."...

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/strike/2014/12/30/russia-argentina-jets-food/21045405/

Facinating...Does Buenos Aires believe that acquiring 12 Jets from a bygone era will change the balance of power in the region (until London deploys, oh let's say, one more Typhoon jet to the island  :rolleyes: ) or is this Moscow's latest connivance to take the spot light off Ukraine?

Maybe it's exactly what it looks like and Russia needs beef and wheat. Last year Russian Government Edicts 560 and 778 banned, restricted or embargoed food products from the EU and other specified countries cutting off food supplies/trade to the Russian Federation to show the west who's boss. It was common knowledge that, besides some reduced trade for some western/EU countries, the only people the Russian sanctions would hurt were the Russians themselves.

Now it seems Russia's looking to pawn military surplus for food to feed themselves.

I wonder if they'll also be supplying the SU-24's ordnance or will that come under a separate trade agreement involving bullets for BBQ sauce?   :P

Brass






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 01, 2015, 06:49:14 PM
Report: Russia May Supply Su-24 Aircraft To Argentina In Exchange For Food

..."WARSAW and LONDON — Russia and Argentina are eyeing a deal under which Moscow would lease 12 Sukhoi Su-24 Fencer aircraft to Buenos Aires in return for beef and wheat, the London-based paper Sunday Express has claimed.

As a result, the British Defence Ministry has reportedly launched a review of the air defenses of the Falkland Islands.

In a statement, the MoD said it regularly reviews the military situation around the south Atlantic islands and would adjust force levels on the Falklands to meet any new threat posed by Argentina.

"The MoD undertakes regular assessments of potential military threats to the Falkland Islands to ensure that we retain an appropriate level of defensive capability to address any threats. We continue to remain vigilant and committed to the protection of the Falkland Islanders," it said.

The UK and Argentina, who call the islands the Malivinas, were involved in a short but bloody war in 1982 over ownership of the disputed islands in the South Atlantic.

The dispute has been given new life in recent years by Argentinean President Cristina Kirchener making reclaiming the islands a central plank of her policy.

British analysts said Argentina's acquisition of a credible combat jet force could significantly tilt the strategic balance in favor of Buenos Aires, unless London reinforces the Falklands.

The Falklands are protected by four Royal Air Force Typhoon jets, Rapier surface-to-air missiles, and fewer than 1,200 troops, supported by a warship.

Doug Barrie, the senior air analyst at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London and an expert on Russian aircraft and weapons, said that even with only four Typhoons, the British would come off better in any fight with a squadron's worth of the Su-24.

"I'd back four Typhoons every day of the week against the threat posed by the 1960/1970s technology of the Russian jet," he said.

The Su-24MK is a twin-engine, all-weather land and maritime attack aircraft with a flight range of 2,775 kilometers, according to data from Sukhoi.

Barrie said just how effective the Su-24 would be in the hands of the Argentine Air Force depended on the weapons package that came as part of any deal with the Russians.

"The Su-24 is not what Argentina needs. They have competent crews but they need a multi-role platform not a single-role air-to-surface aircraft, which is expensive to fly and expensive to maintain," he said.

Argentine press reports said Defence Minister Agustin Rossi has denied there is any new defense deal with Russia for fighter jets.

The Argentine Air Force is known to be in the market for a fighter jet to replace the obsolete fleet of Skyhawk and Mirage III aircraft it has operated for several decades.

The possible sale of second-hand Mirage 2000 and Kfir aircraft have been discussed.

Most recently a possible sale of Saab Gripen aircraft was raised by Argentina, but any possibility of that deal taking off was rapidly scotched by the British government.

British companies supply about 30 percent of the new Gripen NG model and the London said it would block any move to sell the advanced Swedish jet to Argentina.

Russian jets or the Chinese FC-1/JF-17 are often touted as potential platforms for the Argentine Air Force.

The hard-up Argentine government won parliamentary approval recently for an economic and investment deal with China.

In 2010, Moscow and Buenos Aires signed a deal under which Russia delivered two Mil Mi-17 helicopters to the country's Air Force, marking Argentina's first purchase of Russian military hardware.

This month, the two sides also struck a deal for Moscow to provide four second-hand tug/supply ships to the Armada Argentina.

In July, Russian President Vladimir Putin paid an official visit to Argentina, possibly paving the way for the deal.

Imports of Argentinian food and goods are viewed as an attempt to bypass Western sanctions imposed on Russia following the country's intervention in Ukraine and its annexation of the Crimean peninsula."...

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/strike/2014/12/30/russia-argentina-jets-food/21045405/ (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/strike/2014/12/30/russia-argentina-jets-food/21045405/)

Facinating...Does Buenos Aires believe that acquiring 12 Jets from a bygone era will change the balance of power in the region (until London deploys, oh let's say, one more Typhoon jet to the island  :rolleyes: ) or is this Moscow's latest connivance to take the spot light off Ukraine?

Maybe it's exactly what it looks like and Russia needs beef and wheat. Last year Russian Government Edicts 560 and 778 banned, restricted or embargoed food products from the EU and other specified countries cutting off food supplies/trade to the Russian Federation to show the west who's boss. It was common knowledge that, besides some reduced trade for some western/EU countries, the only people the Russian sanctions would hurt were the Russians themselves.

Now it seems Russia's looking to pawn military surplus for food to feed themselves.

I wonder if they'll also be supplying the SU-24's ordnance or will that come under a separate trade agreement involving bullets for BBQ sauce?   :P

Brass


Thanks for posting that....A couple impressions, this could be a dig at the United Kingdom as much as anything.  Does Russia need the food they are talking about exchanging the weapons for?  Why does the United Kingdom and their transplanted citizens continue to control these disputed islands 1000's of miles from home but right off the coast of Argentina?  Argentina still claims the islands are their today, but doesn't have the military strength to enforce it. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 01, 2015, 07:07:01 PM
will work for food?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 01, 2015, 07:28:11 PM
Quote
Does Russia need the food they are talking about exchanging the weapons for?

Desperately? Not yet. Key word is "yet."

The mood in Russia seems to be slowly evolving, and Putin is smart to short up supplies now rather than later. He could very well come under more pressure as time goes on. Russia simply has been too slow over the past decades to develop the kind of agricultural systems for be self-sufficient. That could cost him politically if he doesn't look for deals like this one.

Actually it is a smart move from his policy perspectives:

- He takes a swipe at the Brits by arming the Argentine military.

- It is a yet another nail in the coffin of the US Monroe Doctrine.

- He gets rid of some outdated military hardware, leased at that, so he can use the funds and still own the assets.

- He gets the food -- he will need it in the near future.

- His ministers are in a panic due to the reserves rapidly shrinking while he continues to modernize the military, and this will relieve some of that financial pressure.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 01, 2015, 07:45:50 PM


Actually it is a smart move from his policy perspectives:

- He takes a swipe at the Brits by arming the Argentine military.

- It is a yet another nail in the coffin of the US Monroe Doctrine.

- He gets rid of some outdated military hardware, leased at that, so he can use the funds and still own the assets.

- He gets the food -- he will need it in the near future.

- His ministers are in a panic due to the reserves rapidly shrinking while he continues to modernize the military, and this will relieve some of that financial pressure.


Thanks, these are all good points....it seems to me, like many things, the Monroe Doctrine has been selectively enforced regarding the Falkland Islands....Had the occupiers been Russia, China, or another nation not aligned with us, I suspect we would have taken Argentinian's side....which of course leads me to the conclusion that at this point the Monroe Doctrine is not for the Southern nation's benefit, but for our own.


I doubt the Argentinians want to fight *although it is still a modern day issue for them*, but it is an interesting concept if they decided they were going to, backed by old Russian military equipment...I think they would have a lot of South American support. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 02, 2015, 12:53:25 AM
Dead and wounded Russian soldier numbers during the eight year Soviet incursion as disclosed by Gen. Aleksei D. Lizichev during a press conference. I wonder how much of a lowball General Lizichev was asked to throw out there on his numbers  ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/26/world/soviet-lists-afghan-war-toll-13310-dead-35478-wounded.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/26/world/soviet-lists-afghan-war-toll-13310-dead-35478-wounded.html)

Elena Vasilieva and her group of mothers have the number of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine at over 4,000 already. I am sure you can look her up in Russia for yourself. The UN says it is 3,000. Maybe Elena's estimate is a bit high? My money says it is probably higher with many families too afraid or proud to speak up for their loved ones.


Ukraine has gone more than 5 thousand Russian soldiers - Vasiliev
Number of missing in Ukraine Russian military is already more than five thousand

This is in the air "Channel 5" said Russian human rights activist, founder of the "load-200 from Ukraine to Russia" in "Facebook" Elena Vasileva, reports Espreso.TV .

"Today missing in Ukraine Russian military, according to our data, more than five thousand," - she said.

Vasiliev said that the UN also confirmed the figure 4800 people missing and dead Russian soldiers in Donbass.

According to her, the important issue is not currently figure of dead Russians and mothers the opportunity to pick up and bury "those who gave their lives for some unknown reason."

http://espreso.tv/news/2014/12/08/v_ukrayini_znyklo_ponad_5_tysyach_rosiyskykh_soldat____vasylyeva
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 02, 2015, 01:28:34 AM
That's a good start!  :clapping:

How many more Muskovi will die because of Putler's vision of a rebuilt CCCP?  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 02, 2015, 02:42:27 AM

Thanks for posting that....A couple impressions, this could be a dig at the United Kingdom as much as anything.  Does Russia need the food they are talking about exchanging the weapons for?  Why does the United Kingdom and their transplanted citizens continue to control these disputed islands 1000's of miles from home but right off the coast of Argentina?  Argentina still claims the islands are their today, but doesn't have the military strength to enforce it. 


Fathertime!

The Island has a complicated history but at the end of the day the UN has guaranteed the island inhabitants the right to self determination and they choose to remain a protectorate of the UK. The Argentines do not recognize the Falkland inhabitants right to self determination or sovereignty.

..."Sovereignty dispute

Main article: Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute

The United Kingdom and Argentina claim the Falkland Islands. The UK's position is that the Falklanders have not indicated a desire for change, and that there are no pending issues to resolve concerning the islands.[85][86] The UK bases its position on its continuous administration of the islands since 1833 (except for 1982) and the islanders' "right to self-determination as set out in the UN Charter".[87] Argentine policy maintains that Falkland Islanders do not have a right to self-determination, claiming that in 1833 the UK expelled Argentine authorities (and settlers) from the Falklands with a threat of "greater force" and, afterwards, barred Argentines from resettling the islands.[88][89] Argentina posits that it acquired the Falklands from Spain when it achieved independence in 1816, and that the UK illegally occupied them in 1833.[88]

In 2009, British prime minister Gordon Brown had a meeting with Argentine president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, and said that there would be no further talks over the sovereignty of the Falklands.[90] In March 2013, the Falkland Islands held a referendum on its political status, and 99.8 percent of voters favoured remaining under British rule.[91][92] Argentina does not recognise the Falkland Islands as a partner in negotiations;[93] consequently, it dismissed the Falkland Islands' sovereignty referendum."...

You can read up on it here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 02, 2015, 05:00:22 AM
Military ask Putin to take them home in Russia (Video)

http://q99.it/Pcd7d0p

War in Donbass  - fighting on the territory of Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine continued to April 2014. In early September 2014 was signed a ceasefire agreement, after which the intensity of the fighting has decreased, but in certain areas of the collision and the shelling continued.


http://yavatnik.net/voennyie-prosyat-putina-zabrat-ih-domoy-v-rossiyu-video/

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2dvh9s_3%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%8C-%D0%B2-%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8F%D1%82-%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C-%D0%B8%D1%85-%D0%B2-%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8E_news
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2015, 05:39:39 AM

Jay, I can not open your first link
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2015, 05:49:06 AM
Fake videos
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 02, 2015, 08:51:17 AM
The Island has a complicated history but at the end of the day the UN has guaranteed the island inhabitants the right to self determination and they choose to remain a protectorate of the UK. The Argentines do not recognize the Falkland inhabitants right to self determination or sovereignty.

..."Sovereignty dispute

Main article: Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute

The United Kingdom and Argentina claim the Falkland Islands. The UK's position is that the Falklanders have not indicated a desire for change, and that there are no pending issues to resolve concerning the islands.[85][86] The UK bases its position on its continuous administration of the islands since 1833 (except for 1982) and the islanders' "right to self-determination as set out in the UN Charter".[87] Argentine policy maintains that Falkland Islanders do not have a right to self-determination, claiming that in 1833 the UK expelled Argentine authorities (and settlers) from the Falklands with a threat of "greater force" and, afterwards, barred Argentines from resettling the islands.[88][89] Argentina posits that it acquired the Falklands from Spain when it achieved independence in 1816, and that the UK illegally occupied them in 1833.[88]

In 2009, British prime minister Gordon Brown had a meeting with Argentine president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, and said that there would be no further talks over the sovereignty of the Falklands.[90] In March 2013, the Falkland Islands held a referendum on its political status, and 99.8 percent of voters favoured remaining under British rule.[91][92] Argentina does not recognise the Falkland Islands as a partner in negotiations;[93] consequently, it dismissed the Falkland Islands' sovereignty referendum."...

You can read up on it here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands)

Brass


I think I have a better wiki link here as it goes into more depth regarding the dispute itself:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute)


As usual, there are two sides to the story.  Overall, the reason The United Kingdom still has control of these island is their military superiority. The Falklands are sparsely populated yet they are VERY restrictive in allowing new immigrants. Of course when this dispute first erupted Argentina was an unwilling 'colony' of Europe...[size=78%]   [/size]
[/size][size=78%]
Here is Argentina's position:[/size]

[/size]
[/size]
[/size]Supporters of the Argentine position make the following claims:[/color][/size]That sovereignty of the islands was transferred to Argentina from Spain upon independence in 1810,[67] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute#cite_note-hasani-68)[/size] a principle known as uti possidetis juris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis_juris)[/i].[/b]
[/size][/font]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 02, 2015, 09:00:45 AM
Overall, if The United Kingdom can still hold claim to Islands 12,000 kms from home and restrict new inhabitants (to ensure they retain control)...then other nations might feel that they can take similar stands now and 100 years in the future it will be accepted, sorta like the Falklands.  Of course it just so happens there is at least 10 billion in oil The United Kingdom will benefit from, and Argentina will not:  It is almost humorous how selective people's outrage and sense of what is right/wrong is.   


http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-04/the-falkland-islands-brace-for-oil-wealth (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-04/the-falkland-islands-brace-for-oil-wealth)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 02, 2015, 12:46:48 PM

I think I have a better wiki link here as it goes into more depth regarding the dispute itself:

Suit yourself. 

As usual, there are two sides to the story.  Overall, the reason The United Kingdom still has control of these island is their military superiority. The Falklands are sparsely populated yet they are VERY restrictive in allowing new immigrants. Of course when this dispute first erupted Argentina was an unwilling 'colony' of Europe...

That's the second time you've mentioned UK military superiority. You do realize that the it was the Argentines who invaded and tried to militarily seize the island by force in 1982, yes?

Up to that point the only military presence on the island consisted of an icebreaker and if memory serves a platoon of Royal Marines on rotational duty. It would seem that the use of military strength was initiated by the Argentines not the UK.

An excerpt from another wikilink...

..."The maintenance of only a token military force before the Falklands War, and the suggestion that HMS Endurance was to be withdrawn, persuaded Argentina to start that conflict, assuming that Britain would not respond or be easily able to recapture the islands"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Falkland_Islands

It was Argentina who opened the can of whoop ass. Up to that point the UK was quite happy to let the UN and alklanders deal with any claims/complaints etc.

Quote from: fathertime
Here is Argentina's position...

Indeed. As you mentioned at the beginning of your comments there are usually (at least) two versions of an event(s).

At the end of the day it's what the Falklanders have chosen that counts though. The rest, as they say, is history.

Brass







Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 02, 2015, 12:53:07 PM
I see comrade fathertime is still not letting facts get in the way of his anti-western rants. :rolleyes:

Now it's the turn of lil' ole UK,which still includes Scotland by the way,to feel his ire. ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 02, 2015, 01:26:45 PM
Here's a thing.

Not so long ago the Russian leadership was saying the UK is a little island no-one cares about...there's that Russian arrogance again.

Nowadays, UK toilet paper is worth more than the Russian Ruble.; ))))))))))

And we won't be needing to eat dirt either  ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 02, 2015, 01:49:01 PM
Overall, if The United Kingdom can still hold claim to Islands 12,000 kms from home and restrict new inhabitants (to ensure they retain control)...then other nations might feel that they can take similar stands now and 100 years in the future it will be accepted, sorta like the Falklands.  Of course it just so happens there is at least 10 billion in oil The United Kingdom will benefit from, and Argentina will not:  It is almost humorous how selective people's outrage and sense of what is right/wrong is.   


http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-04/the-falkland-islands-brace-for-oil-wealth (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-04/the-falkland-islands-brace-for-oil-wealth)


Fathertime!

You maybe should have read that first link I provided instead of defaulting straight to the Argentine side of the conflict. Reading the link would have clarified such things as government and immigration for you.

The Falklands are a protectorate of the UK. However, they maintain their own government and have their own Constitution. Immigration and/or visa control is not controlled by the UK but by the local government and yes they do have a restrictive immigration policy.

It was only after the Argentine invasion were the Falkland Islands inhabitants allowed offered full UK citizenship (including now EU passport) and British Overseas Territory Citizen passport status. Which, of course, most of the inhabitants have taken advantage of. Again, Argentina opening Pandora's box.

The Falklands are economically self sufficient except for defense. They neither pay tax to the UK, nor receive any government funds from the UK.

http://www.falklands.gov.fk/

http://www.falklands.gov.fk/self-governance/the-constitution/

Good for the UK and Falklands if there's oil. More power to'em. Pay for some of the damage the Argies caused leaving their smashed military equipment laying about. ;D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 02, 2015, 01:58:08 PM
Here's a thing.

Not so long ago the Russian leadership was saying the UK is a little island no-one cares about...there's that Russian arrogance again.

Nowadays, UK toilet paper is worth more than the Russian Ruble.; ))))))))))

And we won't be needing to eat dirt either  ;D
Who owns Chealsea?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 02, 2015, 02:07:18 PM
Who owns Chelsea?

The area or the football club?  No matter - it's the same answer!  :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 02, 2015, 02:39:35 PM


That's the second time you've mentioned UK military superiority. You do realize that the it was the Argentines who invaded and tried to militarily seize the island by force in 1982, yes?



Yes, the United Kingdom DOES have military superiority, although it took them a minute to bring in the resources...  That fact doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the Argentinians went after them anyway.. 
You maybe should have read that first link I provided instead of defaulting straight to the Argentine side of the conflict. Reading the link would have clarified such things as government and immigration for you.
 

Brass
What makes you think that I didn't read your link? I actually read it before you posted it.  The link I provided explained BOTH sides of the conflict, not just The United Kingdom's.  Did you not notice that minor detail?   Finances wasn't a major reason for the conflict in 1982, but if indeed the area has 60 billion barrels of oil, all that wealth should NOT be benefiting strictly the UK.   


At the end of the day it's what the Falklanders have chosen that counts though. The rest, as they say, is history.

Brass


It appears you are saying that the people residing on the area should be the ones that have the last word.  Right?  If indeed that is your position, then I'd like to hear how we (the USA and the UK) were able to justify the forced relocation and takeover of  these people.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagossians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagossians)

 
My position remains that we can't be putting demands on other nations (like Russia) given how filthy our own hands have been. If the Russians wind up sending arms to Argentina, it would be interesting to see how/if they are used.  Not that I have anything against the people of the Falklands who seem nice enough, but I do have a problem with certain European nations pillaging resources and benefiting from the aftermath of the ridiculous colonization they embarked on. 


Fathertime! 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 02, 2015, 02:47:36 PM
You maybe should have read that first link I provided instead of defaulting straight to the Argentine side of the conflict.


BC--he does not do democracy or democratic process very well!! Incapable of reading links--especially those that contradict his pre-conceived set in concrete "opinions" !! ;D ;D

A  couple of things have come up in thread-- "who owns Chelsea"?  ---  I would widen sanctions to fix that!!

Second one is so called deal on aircraft for food--  I would place sanctions on anyone dealing with Soviet Russia-- and go a step further--physically prevent it happening.
That would "fix"  a few countries thinking!!
The basis--applying enough non-violent pressure on Russia may prevent a  shooting war on the highest plain--if there is a choice- it is clear what is preferable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 02, 2015, 02:49:42 PM
I see comrade fathertime is still not letting facts get in the way of his anti-western rants. :rolleyes:

Now it's the turn of lil' ole UK,which still includes Scotland by the way,to feel his ire. ;D


I see you have commenced 'label time' rather than address the actual issue regarding the Falklands or Russia potentially arming the Argentinians. 


 I thought it would have been great if Scotland left the kingdom, but they choose not to, but not by much...but I don't really care very much either way...if they wind up a disgruntled people then it is not a good thing. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 02, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
Shadow,

               The Russian Roman Abramovich,no fan of Putin by the way,owns the football club Chelsea.

It's amazing the amount of wealthy Russians who prefer to live in insignificant England ( London is full of them) rather than the paradise that is  Russia isn't it ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 02, 2015, 02:54:30 PM
BC--he does not do democracy or democratic process very well!! Incapable of reading links--especially those that contradict his pre-conceived set in concrete "opinions" !! ;D ;D

 


I read links usually, but I don't find the links you blabber about to be worthwhile.  In the case of Brasscassing, his link was fine. 



Second one is so called deal on aircraft for food-- I would place sanctions on anyone dealing with Soviet Russia-- and go a step further--physically prevent it happening.
That would "fix"  a few countries thinking!!
The basis--applying enough non-violent pressure on Russia may prevent a  shooting war on the highest plain--if there is a choice- it is clear what is preferable.


Interesting, those Australian sanctions will just devastate Argentina (or other Nations) I'm sure!   :rolleyes:


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on January 02, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
My position remains that we can't be putting demands on other nations (like Russia) given how filthy our own hands have been. If the Russians wind up sending arms to Argentina, it would be interesting to see how/if they are used.  Not that I have anything against the people of the Falklands who seem nice enough, but I do have a problem with certain European nations pillaging resources and benefiting from the aftermath of the ridiculous colonization they embarked on. 
Fathertime!

This is faulty logic, that makes the point that past mistakes somehow should keep the world from pursuing peace and fairness in our present time. I think the Vietnam War was a stupid move on our part. So? That means we should look the other way, when Russia encourages mayhem and bloodshed in Ukraine? Let's admit it, Putin has a huge problem with Ukraine becoming a trading partner with the EU and with Ukraine becoming a successful democracy. Admit it. That's why the semi-covert Russian military operation in Ukraine, along with outright fire from Russian positions just on the other side of the eastern Ukrainian border. 'little green men', etc. Admit it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 02, 2015, 02:59:50 PM
Shadow,

               The Russian Roman Abramovich, no fan of Putin by the way, owns the football club Chelsea.

It's amazing the amount of wealthy Russians who prefer to live in insignificant England ( London is full of them) rather than the paradise that is Russia isn't it ?

 :clapping:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 02, 2015, 03:00:54 PM
Shadow,

               The Russian Roman Abramovich,no fan of Putin by the way,owns the football club Chelsea.

It's amazing the amount of wealthy Russians who prefer to live in insignificant England ( London is full of them) rather than the paradise that is  Russia isn't it ?
His current relaitonship with Putin is a lot better since he paid some due taxes.
IT ia oretty amazing that England sells their citizenship for 500.000 Pound, thus giving Russians a free ticket in to a european passport and hustle-free moving of finances. Almnost what they are used to in Russia, pay and all issues are solved.
How is the agenda of Cameron, as I heard a lot of russians found it worth the 5000 quid to book half an hour with him. Just to make a selfie.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 02, 2015, 03:07:52 PM
This is faulty logic, that makes the point that past mistakes somehow should keep the world from pursuing peace and fairness in our present time. I think the Vietnam War was a stupid move on our part. So? That means we should look the other way, when Russia encourages mayhem and bloodshed in Ukraine? Let's admit it, Putin has a huge problem with Ukraine becoming a trading partner with the EU and with Ukraine becoming a successful democracy. Admit it. That's why the semi-covert Russian military operation in Ukraine, along with outright fire from Russian positions just on the other side of the eastern Ukrainian border. 'little green men', etc. Admit it.


Hey Photoguy,  I'm not on the same page as the people denying Russian involvement, so for me there is nothing to admit....


What I continue to hold is that the Western powers (and many posters here) are quick to look the other way(or excuse) our own transgressions, while continuing to reap the rewards from them...and then we jump up and down when a rival power makes similar moves.   I understand that is how the world works nowadays, but I'm still going to speak my piece on it!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 02, 2015, 03:14:33 PM
This is faulty logic, that makes the point that past mistakes somehow should keep the world from pursuing peace and fairness in our present time. I think the Vietnam War was a stupid move on our part. So? That means we should look the other way, when Russia encourages mayhem and bloodshed in Ukraine? Let's admit it, Putin has a huge problem with Ukraine becoming a trading partner with the EU and with Ukraine becoming a successful democracy. Admit it. That's why the semi-covert Russian military operation in Ukraine, along with outright fire from Russian positions just on the other side of the eastern Ukrainian border. 'little green men', etc. Admit it.
Admjit it. the EU had a huge problem with Ukraine being a succesful democraqcy and denying a trade agreement. That is why the semi-covert coup in Ukraine, along with the Russian reaction to it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 02, 2015, 03:17:28 PM
Shadow,

               As long as you have enough money Cameron doesn't mind who he poses for selfies with,same as it ever was with the in the investment bankers pockets Tory party..greed is good is their motto,never mind the 4 million poor who get left behind and need to use food banks provided by charity organizations .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 02, 2015, 03:44:36 PM
Admjit it. the EU had a huge problem with Ukraine being a succesful democraqcy and denying a trade agreement. That is why the semi-covert coup in Ukraine, along with the Russian reaction to it.

Tell us all again, Shadow!

How was it a covert coup?  We're flapping our ears, waiting to hear.  Just so you remember, the Russians were actually negotiating between the Rada and the EuroMaidan activists and had already decided to support the activists with a new election scheduled for December.  When Yanukovich saw the handwriting on the wall, he fled.  That, too, was encouraged by the Russians - they even assisted him when he went to Kharkiv and then on to Rostov. 

You have labeled this a semi-covert coup, but failed to respect that the Crimean parliament was overtaken by men with guns and forced to render a new government.  Funny, I can't seem to remember the guns inside the Rada.

I guess my memory of events is significantly different than yours.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 02, 2015, 03:59:17 PM
Tell us all again, Shadow!

How was it a covert coup?  We're flapping our ears, waiting to hear.  Just so you remember, the Russians were actually negotiating between the Rada and the EuroMaidan activists and had already decided to support the activists with a new election scheduled for December.  When Yanukovich saw the handwriting on the wall, he fled.  That, too, was encouraged by the Russians - they even assisted him when he went to Kharkiv and then on to Rostov. 

You have labeled this a semi-covert coup, but failed to respect that the Crimean parliament was overtaken by men with guns and forced to render a new government.  Funny, I can't seem to remember the guns inside the Rada.

I guess my memory of events is significantly different than yours.
Indeed you are probably getting the first symptoms of old age.
Or propaganda, whatever you wish it to be.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 02, 2015, 04:00:29 PM
Shadow,

               As long as you have enough money Cameron doesn't mind who he poses for selfies with,same as it ever was with the in the investment bankers pockets Tory party..greed is good is their motto,never mind the 4 million poor who get left behind and need to use food banks provided by charity organizations .
Well as long as you believe to be free to choose such governments, all is well.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 02, 2015, 04:01:10 PM

Yes, the United Kingdom DOES have military superiority, although it took them a minute to bring in the resources...  That fact doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the Argentinians went after them anyway..

My point being that military superiority (or a stronger nation) should not be held responsible for employing said military superiority (within reason) to defend themselves or those they have agreed to protect if attacked.

In other words; you mentioned "the reason The United Kingdom still has control of these island is their military superiority." This is a misleading statement. The reason the Falklands remains a protectorate of the UK is because the Falkland government has chosen to be a protectorate of the UK. The UK's military superiority has nothing to do with it.

  What makes you think that I didn't read your link? I actually read it before you posted it.  The link I provided explained BOTH sides of the conflict, not just The United Kingdom's.  Did you not notice that minor detail?   Finances wasn't a major reason for the conflict in 1982, but if indeed the area has 60 billion barrels of oil, all that wealth should NOT be benefiting strictly the UK.   

The excerpt I pasted from the link was relevant and in response to your comment here "Why does the United Kingdom and their transplanted citizens continue to control these disputed islands 1000's of miles from home but right off the coast of Argentina?  Argentina still claims the islands are their today, but doesn't have the military strength to enforce it."

It was not an explanation of any side of the argument. It was to correct your erroneous comment that 'military strength' or lack of same has something to do with Argentina's claims to the islands, it doesn't. The people of the Falklands have made their choice.

It appears you are saying that the people residing on the area should be the ones that have the last word.  Right?  If indeed that is your position, then I'd like to hear how we (the USA and the UK) were able to justify the forced relocation and takeover of  these people.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagossians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagossians)

I'm saying nothing of the sort. These people (the Chagossians) may have a legitimate claim as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, the European Court of Human Rights seems to disagee.

However, to clarify, the islands (Falklands) were uninhabited when discovered by the Europeans (Spain, Portulgal, France take your pick they all seem to have claimed discovering at one time or another) there was no indigenous population to relocate.


My position remains that we can't be putting demands on other nations (like Russia) given how filthy our own hands have been. If the Russians wind up sending arms to Argentina, it would be interesting to see how/if they are used.  Not that I have anything against the people of the Falklands who seem nice enough, but I do have a problem with certain European nations pillaging resources and benefiting from the aftermath of the ridiculous colonization they embarked on. 

Well, let's assume that your argument had merit (I've just shown you it does not), do you believe that just because  illegal, immoral or just down right nasty actions  taken by nations/states/armies have been committed/perpetrated  throughout history, that our moral/legal authority to intervene in a clearly illegal action (Ukraine) by a rogue state (Russia) nowadays is abrogated? Your comments seem to support this stance.

Russia can send all the military surplus it wants to Argentina it doesn't matter. What matters is if the Argentine's use their new museum pieces to launch another illegal assault on a UK protectorate, right?

Otherwise, let Argentina pay to become Russia's junkyard makes no difference to me.  ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 02, 2015, 04:30:20 PM
It seems to me that the British have a legitimate claim on the Falkland Islands since they have been there more than 100 years.  And it's a good thing that they do have military superiority because otherwise Argentina would have overthrown their rule.  Since the British claimed those islands over 100 years ago when nobody else lived there (if I understood what I read correctly) then I don't see how Argentina can claim them.  Finders keepers?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 02, 2015, 04:53:19 PM

 
Thank you for continuing to make your case. 




In other words; you mentioned "the reason The United Kingdom still has control of these island is their military superiority." This is a misleading statement. The reason the Falklands remains a protectorate of the UK is because the Falkland government has chosen to be a protectorate of the UK. The UK's military superiority has nothing to do with it.

The excerpt I pasted from the link was relevant and in response to your comment here "Why does the United Kingdom and their transplanted citizens continue to control these disputed islands 1000's of miles from home but right off the coast of Argentina?  Argentina still claims the islands are their today, but doesn't have the military strength to enforce it."

It was not an explanation of any side of the argument. It was to correct your erroneous comment that 'military strength' or lack of same has something to do with Argentina's claims to the islands, it doesn't. The people of the Falklands have made their choice.

 


The point I'm making is that the UK had the military strength to protect it's people...that is the main reason it still reigns....


--they were not the first to discover the islands
-- they are not located anywhere close to them geographically


I'm saying nothing of the sort. These people (the Chagossians) may have a legitimate claim as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, the European Court of Human Rights seems to disagee.



It is not 'unfortunate' that the EUROPEAN COURT ruled for a EUROPEAN country...it is not just bad luck it is intentional, and gives birth to cries of injustice, and double dealing.


 

Well, let's assume that your argument had merit (I've just shown you it does not), do you believe that just because  illegal, immoral or just down right nasty actions  taken by nations/states/armies have been committed/perpetrated  throughout history, that our moral/legal authority to intervene in a clearly illegal action (Ukraine) by a rogue state (Russia) nowadays is abrogated? Your comments seem to support this stance.

Russia can send all the military surplus it wants to Argentina it doesn't matter. What matters is if the Argentine's use their new museum pieces to launch another illegal assault on a UK protectorate, right?

Otherwise, let Argentina pay to become Russia's junkyard makes no difference to me.  ;)

Brass

 
1.  I don't believe you have made the argument I've made meritless...it is ridiculous to think the issue is so clear cut.
2.  Yes I do support the stance that  we have no authority to intervene in situations like Ukraine, because we are guilty of similar infractions for periods of 100's of years....it is 2015 now and Russia is doing the kinds of things we have already done...one big difference was Western Powers were not challenged, like we are now challenging Russia. 
3.  If the Argentinians vie for more control of resources (in and around the Falklands), and threaten with Russian weaponry I'd be Ok with that.  I see it as tit for tat....Although western powers may not see it that way, I speculate that many developing nations (former colonies) would see it that way too.


Fathertime!   





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 02, 2015, 04:59:07 PM
It seems to me that the British have a legitimate claim on the Falkland Islands since they have been there more than 100 years.  And it's a good thing that they do have military superiority because otherwise Argentina would have overthrown their rule.  Since the British claimed those islands over 100 years ago when nobody else lived there (if I understood what I read correctly) then I don't see how Argentina can claim them.  Finders keepers?


Well AC, the British actually weren't the first to 'discover' the islands...if we were to use the finders/keepers philosophy France would be owner...but you are correct regarding the military superiority aspect...it appears to me that Argentina should have some control of the resources, not some faraway island/kingdom with the best guns....The Argentinian shorelines/environment will be the first affected in case of mishap. 


Fathertime!   


Fathertime!     




Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 02, 2015, 05:49:00 PM
The point I'm making is that the UK had the military strength to protect it's people...that is the main reason it still reigns....

I take issue with use of the word "reign", otherwise your comment is accurate enough. Is this a problem for you?

--they were not the first to discover the islands
-- they are not located anywhere close to them geographically

1) Debatable.
2) Geography seems to be at issue with you. Do you believe that based on geography the Falklands Islands because it's situated close to the Argentine mainland is subject to an Argentine form of 'Manifest Destiny' or do you believe the duly elected government of the Falklands has a right to determine it's own future/alliances?

It is not 'unfortunate' that the EUROPEAN COURT ruled for a EUROPEAN country...it is not just bad luck it is intentional, and gives birth to cries of injustice, and double dealing.

I'm not familiar with the legal ins and outs of the petition or it's dismissal so I really couldn't comment further. You may be correct, however, over the years I've observed whenever a controversial decision's come down in any legal proceeding there are always those that will claim there was injustice done (usually the losing side  :P )

1.  I don't believe you have made the argument I've made meritless...it is ridiculous to think the issue is so clear cut.
2.  Yes I do support the stance that  we have no authority to intervene in situations like Ukraine, because we are guilty of similar infractions for periods of 100's of years....it is 2015 now and Russia is doing the kinds of things we have already done...one big difference was Western Powers were not challenged, like we are now challenging Russia. 
3.  If the Argentinians vie for more control of resources (in and around the Falklands), and threaten with Russian weaponry I'd be Ok with that.  I see it as tit for tat....Although western powers may not see it that way, I speculate that many developing nations (former colonies) would see it that way too.

1) I disagree. Applying the Chagossian situation to the Falkland's argument is faulty logic and my first line to you was the history is complicated, was it not?

2)You believe we (Nato, the west) should not intervene because of our own (societies) past actions, if I'm catching your drift. Yet at the same time you advocate (your para 3) perpetrating those same aggressive/illegal/criminal actions you've decided to condemn western/European nations for. Does this make sense to you?

3)"If the Argentinians vie for more control of resources (in and around the Falklands), and threaten with Russian weaponry I'd be Ok with that.  I see it as tit for tat....".

 I see. Will you also be O.K. with it when the UK/Nato or some other world power responds in kind and repels the Argentines...will it be "tit for tat" then or another example of western imperialist aggression?

Brass 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 02, 2015, 08:32:46 PM
Here's a thing.

Not so long ago the Russian leadership was saying the UK is a little island no-one cares about...there's that Russian arrogance again.

Nowadays, UK toilet paper is worth more than the Russian Ruble.; ))))))))))

And we won't be needing to eat dirt either  ;D

I don't know about all that but the price of oil keeps dropping.  Down another 58 cents today. 

They better plant some more cabbage and potatoes over there in that dirt.

http://www.oil-price.net/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 02, 2015, 08:59:27 PM
Since the Rouble is fast becoming worthless, their economy will probably be better off if they ditch the currency and move to a barter system.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 02, 2015, 09:15:59 PM
 
I take issue with use of the word "reign", otherwise your comment is accurate enough. Is this a problem for you?



Hehe no problem, I used the word "Reign" on purpose, although I know technically it is inaccurate....although if it is thought of in terms of who's coffers the money winds up in..then it may apply. 



 
2) Geography seems to be at issue with you. Do you believe that based on geography the Falklands Islands because it's situated close to the Argentine mainland is subject to an Argentine form of 'Manifest Destiny' or do you believe the duly elected government of the Falklands has a right to determine it's own future/alliances?

 

Yes, I think Geography should be a factor.  It seems to me that the potential wealth should NOT end up going mostly to or through the UK...If it were the USA I'd say the same thing, so not picking on the UK in particular.  Earlier you mentioned that the UK does not collect taxes from the Falklands, but that is NOT the entire story... The Falklands are using companies to extract the oil from..drum roll.....THE UK (just about exclusively)...these companies are and will be making tremendous profits and presumably will be taxed by the UK...so in essence, the UK is doing a little better than just taxing the Falklands residents.   Does ALL this wealth deserve to go to so few, the early colonizers, with the best and most aggressive gutsy military?  Can this situation be juxtaposed to Ukraine as well then?



 

1) I disagree. Applying the Chagossian situation to the Falkland's argument is faulty logic and my first line to you was the history is complicated, was it not?

2)You believe we (Nato, the west) should not intervene because of our own (societies) past actions, if I'm catching your drift. Yet at the same time you advocate (your para 3) perpetrating those same aggressive/illegal/criminal actions you've decided to condemn western/European nations for. Does this make sense to you?

3)"If the Argentinians vie for more control of resources (in and around the Falklands), and threaten with Russian weaponry I'd be Ok with that.  I see it as tit for tat....".

 I see. Will you also be O.K. with it when the UK/Nato or some other world power responds in kind and repels the Argentines...will it be "tit for tat" then or another example of western imperialist aggression?

Brass 

I guess I really don't believe the Falklands is much of an independent govt.  Sure they appear like one, BUT would they really take any position other than what the UK wants them to take?  I think I read they allow 40 immigrants a year, and they are probably screened, so the ethnic makeup of the voting public will not change nor will the policies. 
Yes it does make sense to me to point out our past transgressions and then to now accept that it is a continuation for other (non-allied) nations to do the same as we did, in the present day.  I've found it completely laughable when certain posters (not referring to you) jump on their high-horse and become indignant, when they have 'forgiven' their own nations from their past injustices, and continue to benefit from them.  Do you think that Western nations should be let off the hook because they have apologized, AFTER they have received material advantage and dynastic wealth? 


I can see discussing and/or disagreeing about Ukraine in terms of what is best for our respective nations and the best way to solve the issue, but to act like we (the Western nations) are conforming to some moral high-ground remains a laughable argument for people to make from my viewpoint.  When we want someone out, even nowadays we find an unhanded way to do it without being as ham-fisted as Russia, but it still gets done...in the old days we slaughtered who we needed to, no mercy. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 02, 2015, 11:21:30 PM

Ukraine has gone more than 5 thousand Russian soldiers - Vasiliev
Number of missing in Ukraine Russian military is already more than five thousand

This is in the air "Channel 5" said Russian human rights activist, founder of the "load-200 from Ukraine to Russia" in "Facebook" Elena Vasileva, reports Espreso.TV .

"Today missing in Ukraine Russian military, according to our data, more than five thousand," - she said.

Vasiliev said that the UN also confirmed the figure 4800 people missing and dead Russian soldiers in Donbass.

According to her, the important issue is not currently figure of dead Russians and mothers the opportunity to pick up and bury "those who gave their lives for some unknown reason."

http://espreso.tv/news/2014/12/08/v_ukrayini_znyklo_ponad_5_tysyach_rosiyskykh_soldat____vasylyeva

The article Jay H cites independent United Nations verification that 5,000 Russians have been killed in Eastern Ukraine.  Using this as a baseline, from modern war statistics, we can deduce that 50% or 2,500 are missing in action either desertion or killed with unrecovered temains.  Captured?  Both combatant governments deny a state of war if a state of war existed between the two countries the International Red Cross could tour POW camps and count and identify the POWs.  POWs are eligible for parole provided they do not return to the conflict.  If they return to the fight, they are subject to summary execution.  We can deduce that 25,000 have been wounded on the pro-Russian side.

If this is the case, these statistics follow the same casualty political Calculus  as the US second Iraq war circa 2005 except that Russia has half the population and smaller families.  Main take way, the war is going very, very badly for Russia.

Think Russo-Japanese War of 1905 . . . the parallels are there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 02, 2015, 11:42:44 PM
You maybe should have read that first link I provided instead of defaulting straight to the Argentine side of the conflict. Reading the link would have clarified such things as government and immigration for you.

The Falklands are a protectorate of the UK. However, they maintain their own government and have their own Constitution. Immigration and/or visa control is not controlled by the UK but by the local government and yes they do have a restrictive immigration policy.

It was only after the Argentine invasion were the Falkland Islands inhabitants allowed offered full UK citizenship (including now EU passport) and British Overseas Territory Citizen passport status. Which, of course, most of the inhabitants have taken advantage of. Again, Argentina opening Pandora's box.

The Falklands are economically self sufficient except for defense. They neither pay tax to the UK, nor receive any government funds from the UK.

http://www.falklands.gov.fk/

http://www.falklands.gov.fk/self-governance/the-constitution/

Good for the UK and Falklands if there's oil. More power to'em. Pay for some of the damage the Argies caused leaving their smashed military equipment laying about. ;D

Brass

This is a good point.

In 1982,  Argentina started a war to distract regime opponents from the economic chaos.

Kirchner is not doing very well as President.  She stirred up anti-British sentiment during the 30 year anniversary very cynically knowing she had no military to give voice to such antagonism. 

The Monroe Doctrine is still very much alive.  The only country with a credible challenge to it speaks Chinese and we buy their stuff at Walmart!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 02, 2015, 11:50:08 PM
Shadow,

               The Russian Roman Abramovich,no fan of Putin by the way,owns the football club Chelsea.

It's amazing the amount of wealthy Russians who prefer to live in insignificant England ( London is full of them) rather than the paradise that is  Russia isn't it ?

Game, set & match
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 03, 2015, 12:05:22 AM
Tell us all again, Shadow!

How was it a covert coup?  We're flapping our ears, waiting to hear.  Just so you remember, the Russians were actually negotiating between the Rada and the EuroMaidan activists and had already decided to support the activists with a new election scheduled for December.  When Yanukovich saw the handwriting on the wall, he fled.  That, too, was encouraged by the Russians - they even assisted him when he went to Kharkiv and then on to Rostov. 

You have labeled this a semi-covert coup, but failed to respect that the Crimean parliament was overtaken by men with guns and forced to render a new government.  Funny, I can't seem to remember the guns inside the Rada.

I guess my memory of events is significantly different than yours.


This is a slam dunk
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 03, 2015, 12:41:19 AM
The Monroe doctrine has been dead since the dawning of BRICS.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 03, 2015, 02:25:38 AM
The Monroe doctrine has been dead since the dawning of BRICS.
"BRICS", the formerly admired and extolled clique of burgeoning economic powerhouse nations, has been reduced to only 'IC'. Brazil, Russia, and South Africa have been exposed as disintegrating frauds, mainly due to out-of-control crime and corruption in those nations.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Misha on January 03, 2015, 02:35:23 AM
"BRICS", the formerly admired and extolled clique of burgeoning economic powerhouse nations, has been reduced to only 'IC'. Brazil, Russia, and South Africa have been exposed as disintegrating frauds, mainly due to out-of-control crime and corruption in those nations.


Yes, and the "IC" component are hardly bosom allies  :-X
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 03, 2015, 03:38:31 AM

Yes, and the "IC" component are hardly bosom allies  :-X
Fortunately for the rest of us...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 03, 2015, 08:31:49 AM
They kill white people in South Africa.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 03, 2015, 01:25:54 PM
Alleged Russian spy ring members detained in Lithuania.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/alleged-russian-spies-detained-near-nato-air-base-in-lithuania/ar-BBhtUui?ocid=mailsignout


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 03, 2015, 05:15:33 PM
LT--note this--it is about some of your previous questions.
More bad news for Russia as true patriots are incorporated into armed services.
Volunteers "Right Sector" includes a new 55 battalion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/dobrovolci-pravogo-sektoru-vhodyat-u-noviy-55-y-batalyon-zbroynih-sil-ukrayini-400941.html




Soldiers will sign the contract and all applicable military social guarantees. In Vinnitsa region train new soldiers battalion New 55 universal battalion created in Vinnytsia region.
There's a pilot project in cooperation with the Ministry of Defence "Right Sector", referred to in the story TSN.19 30 . As a result, soldiers volunteer groups, which is involved in illegal ATO officially become soldiers. Now experimental battalion trains on the territory of the former training center command post 43rd Army Strategic Missile Forces. Every day soldiers are firing and tactical training, work skills and battlefield circulation in exploration.
 The idea of ​​creating a joint battalion went to the Ministry of Defence representatives "Right Sector". Military landed a deal. Soldiers of the battalion will go to the Donbass replace those in need of rotation. Instead of them all MOD sign a contract and they officially serve in the army. "Volunteers mobilized, are on contract and serve as military forces Zbronyh Ukraine," - said the commander UNSO in Vinnytsia region Sergey Regional. Defense and "Right Sector" create universal battalion   So far, the Department of Defense has provided only as part of a military base, restore water and purchased furniture. All the rest is done by volunteers. But over time the battalion fully fund the state. "When we came here, this part was completely empty. Currently MoD could find furniture, tables and chairs. Due to the financial condition of the state - is very difficult. In fact, we exist mostly by volunteers. From food to socks money on fuel, "- said the chief of staff teams boundary UNSO in Vinnitsa region Andrew Koshubskyy. Nevertheless, the morale of the boys high. They hope that soon will be able to help colleagues in eastern Ukraine to defend from the enemy.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/dobrovolci-pravogo-sektoru-vhodyat-u-noviy-55-y-batalyon-zbroynih-sil-ukrayini-400941.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 03, 2015, 05:35:31 PM
Poll:  More than 88% of Ukrainians say "Nyet" to any kind of union with Russia.


http://www.unian.info/politics/1028682-poll-more-than-88-of-ukrainians-say-nyet-to-joining-russia.html


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 03, 2015, 08:34:01 PM
Poll:  More than 88% of Ukrainians say "Nyet" to any kind of union with Russia.


http://www.unian.info/politics/1028682-poll-more-than-88-of-ukrainians-say-nyet-to-joining-russia.html
0% Want To Join Russia !!That is zero% ~~
Least join Russia To the inhabitants of Central Ukraine. Dumskaya.net In Odessa, was found willing to join in. In Kherson, Lviv and Odessa 0% willing to join Russia . These are the results of a study commissioned  ZN.UA Kyiv International Institute of Sociology. According to this study, 88.3% of citizens oppose Ukraine's accession to the region of their support this idea only 3.1% of respondents. If we consider the situation in the regions, the most oppose Russia's accession to the residents of Central Ukraine (98.1%), followed by - the West (94.0%), South (93.3%) and East (81.5%) . The same figures given question whether citizens would like to be separated from the Ukraine region, but remained independent and not joined to Russia. Only 2.6% want independence for their region. Recall the Donbass about 100 communities want to join the Dnipropetrovsk region .


Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/v-odesi-ta-hersoni-0-bazhayuchih-priyednatisya-do-rosiyi-400945.html

None of these results are a surprise to me-- it reflects what some of us her on the forum have been trying to tell the non listeners all last year.Russia is not wanted in UKRAINE-in any shape or form !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 03, 2015, 08:42:26 PM
Very good post Jay.  I hope others besides you will also read that poll.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 03, 2015, 11:48:21 PM
Some interesting comments of note--particularly that Russia has been heading to a economic recession for some time. I disagree that sanctions will only be of minor impact--they will be savage and create severe depth in the economic fall-- and make recovery much more difficult and prolonged--UNLESS-- Russia decides to rejoin the world and not stay a pariah state like North Korea.
This piece of writing encompasses some of the ludicrous thinking emanating from Moscow-- and shows how little is understood about Ukraine 2015 !
What a shock it is going to be to Russians when they wake up to the fact that Ukraine has/(or is going to) beaten them militarily!




 Russia Prepares for Lengthy Confrontation With West


By Vasily Kashin, analyst, Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, Moscow 10:43 a.m. EST January 3, 2015

Russian politics in 2015 will continue to be shaped by two simultaneous crises, external and internal. While the external crisis affecting Russia — the conflict with the West over Ukraine — is attracting global attention, the internal crisis goes largely unnoticed or, even worse, is erroneously viewed as the result of Western sanctions.

In reality, the economic crisis in Russia started in 2013, long before Western sanctions. It was primarily caused by structural problems of the Russian economy and later was exacerbated by the sharp fall in oil prices and renewed economic decline in the EU, Russia's main economic partner.

Sanctions is an additional complicating factor but of secondary importance. For the coming two to three years, Russia will be passing through a period of stagnation and recession as it transitions to a new economic development model. The government's focus will be on gathering and maintaining the necessary political capital to undertake unpopular reforms and budget cuts.

An assertive foreign policy, including annexation of Crimea and support of the rebellion in eastern Ukraine, serves these goals perfectly. The country is experiencing a spectacular rise of national unity and nationalism that would be typical for late 19th century Western Europe. As result, Russia will not be interested in making significant political concessions on Ukraine in exchange for lifting the sanctions. Whether sanctions are removed or increased will have limited effect on Russia's economic situation. And demonstration of weakness could be politically suicidal.

That does not mean we will necessarily see a new round of hostilities in Ukraine in 2015. The military situation in the eastern Ukraine became a strategic stalemate after the Ukrainian Army was defeated in the battle of Ilovaysk in August. Ukraine is facing an economic disaster and new political instability, and the Army is in disarray, but rebel forces appear to be too poorly organized and controlled to take full advantage.

See the other contributors to "2015 Outlook."

Russia is interested in freezing the conflict either by turning the current Donetsk and Luhansk republics into unrecognized states or by obtaining Ukrainian consent for the widest autonomy for these territories in the framework of the Ukrainian state. These would achieve Russia's main policy goals in Ukraine, and Moscow then would be interested in complete military de-escalation.

At the same time, Russia will continue an assertive line in relations with the West because Russia does not feel it has much to lose. For Moscow, the Cold War has already started. It began when the US and EU supported a rebellion against a democratically elected government of Ukraine on the sole ground that the government chose a pro-Russian foreign policy.

The additional US deployments in Western Europe will be reciprocated by increased activity of the Russian Air Force and Navy along NATO borders; any tough statements from the West will be answered in kind.

Russia is preparing for a period of prolonged political confrontation with the West, and that pushes Moscow toward closer military, political and industrial cooperation with China. Next year we will see increased joint military activities, including a naval exercise in the Mediterranean, and new arms and high-tech trade deals.

But Russia is still keen to avoid excessive dependence on China and is trying to increase cooperation with the Asian region in general. As the active military phase in Ukraine ends, Russian decision-makers will turn to their traditional source of security concerns — Central Asia. That could create opportunities for cooperation with the US, but it is unlikely the current leaders of both counties will be interested to use that opportunity.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/commentary/2015/01/03/thought-leaders-russia/21190035/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 04, 2015, 06:12:07 AM
0% Want To Join Russia !!That is zero% ~~
Least join Russia To the inhabitants of Central Ukraine. Dumskaya.net In Odessa, was found willing to join in. In Kherson, Lviv and Odessa 0% willing to join Russia . These are the results of a study commissioned  ZN.UA Kyiv International Institute of Sociology. According to this study, 88.3% of citizens oppose Ukraine's accession to the region of their support this idea only 3.1% of respondents. If we consider the situation in the regions, the most oppose Russia's accession to the residents of Central Ukraine (98.1%), followed by - the West (94.0%), South (93.3%) and East (81.5%) . The same figures given question whether citizens would like to be separated from the Ukraine region, but remained independent and not joined to Russia. Only 2.6% want independence for their region. Recall the Donbass about 100 communities want to join the Dnipropetrovsk region .


Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/v-odesi-ta-hersoni-0-bazhayuchih-priyednatisya-do-rosiyi-400945.html (http://tsn.ua/politika/v-odesi-ta-hersoni-0-bazhayuchih-priyednatisya-do-rosiyi-400945.html)

None of these results are a surprise to me-- it reflects what some of us her on the forum have been trying to tell the non listeners all last year.Russia is not wanted in UKRAINE-in any shape or form !!
And you believe that someone can do a valid study during a civil war.
There is not a single person in that area who will tell what they believe to a stranger. They will only tell what they believe the stranger wants to hear.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on January 04, 2015, 10:03:46 AM
Admjit it. the EU had a huge problem with Ukraine being a succesful democraqcy and denying a trade agreement. That is why the semi-covert coup in Ukraine, along with the Russian reaction to it.

Say What? If you are saying the over-throw of the dictatorship in Ukraine, was implemented by the West, that's a ridiculous idea. This tells me you know nobody in Kiev and few people in Ukraine. This tells me you didn't watch the Maidan revolution videos. The Russian reaction to the revolution is all about suppressing democracy and stopping Ukraine from having free trade with the EU. Yanukovych was Putin's buddy. Remember? That's not a factor? Ha. Does the EU see Poland's democracy and development in the EU, as a huge problem? No, and for the same reasons, the EU encourages democracy in Ukraine. I think most see the over-throw of Yanukovych as a coup. And most see that as a good thing. All you have to do is contrast Yanukovych with Poroshenko? Would you like to compare those two? Hello? Please get a clue. Putin is ruining Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 04, 2015, 10:18:30 AM
Say What? If you are saying the over-throw of the dictatorship in Ukraine, was implemented by the West, that's a ridiculous idea. This tells me you know nobody in Kiev and few people in Ukraine. This tells me you didn't watch the Maidan revolution videos. The Russian reaction to the revolution is all about suppressing democracy and stopping Ukraine from having free trade with the EU. Yanukovych was Putin's buddy. Remember? That's not a factor? Ha. Does the EU see Poland's democracy and development in the EU, as a huge problem? No, and for the same reasons, the EU encourages democracy in Ukraine. I think most see the over-throw of Yanukovych as a coup. And most see that as a good thing. All you have to do is contrast Yanukovych with Poroshenko? Would you like to compare those two? Hello? Please get a clue. Putin is ruining Russia.
Watch the Euromaidan videos and see the EU officials claiming "WE HAVE WON". You want to say they had no part in it?
Yanukovich and Poroschenko are the same type of guy, history will show.
There was a working democracy in Ukraine for a long time. Forgot the Orange revolution? Forgot Yanukoviich was chosen?
The EU sees any opposition as a problem, which means that when they did not get what they want they orchestrated a coup.
Accusing any politician in Ukraine of corruption is a simple thing, you will not find one who is not corrupt in present or past governments. All you need is the right type of backing to cause a revolution.

But you just continue in your dream world where democracy was brought to Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia, Egypt and Ukraine.
See how grateful the population in those countries must be for being thrown in to war, terrorism, chaos, anarchy and poverty.
Meanwhile continue to support regomes in Saudi-Arabia, Quatar and Turkey even though there are more violations of human rights and less freedom as in Russia.
Putin may be ruining Russia, others are ruining every other country in the world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 05, 2015, 02:15:16 AM


Apple is worth more than the entire Russian stock market

Having sold the Apple corporation one would have enough money to buy the entire Russian stock market and still have enough change left to buy each Russian citizen an iPhone 6 Plus.

«Economic Pravda» reported that such calculations were done by Bloomberg referencing the current stock value of public companies on the market.

It turned out that the Russian shares are worth less than the Apple corporation.

http://en.inforesist.org/apple-is-worth-more-than-the-entire-russian-stock-market/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 05, 2015, 02:50:16 AM
Since these numbers were from last November and the Russian stock market has tanked further since then....

 Imagine how bad it is now!!!  ;D ;D :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 05, 2015, 03:29:05 AM
Since these numbers were from last November and the Russian stock market has tanked further since then....

 Imagine how bad it is now!!!  ;D ;D :rolleyes:
Stiil if I had a choice I would go for the Russian stock market. Apple will be eaten by worms.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 05, 2015, 03:38:06 AM
Stiil if I had a choice I would go for the Russian stock market. Apple will be eaten by worms.

Warren Buffett's reputation is definitely challenged by your stock-picking perspicacity!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 05, 2015, 03:40:57 AM
Warren Buffett's reputation is definitely challenged by your stock-picking perspicacity!
He would agree.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 05, 2015, 03:42:49 AM
Buffet is an Obama guy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 05, 2015, 04:01:11 AM
Stiil if I had a choice I would go for the Russian stock market.

For your children's sake I hope you used a professional to manage your retirement funds...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 05, 2015, 04:04:52 AM
For your children's sake I hope you used a professional to manage your retirement funds...
Which retirement funds?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 05, 2015, 04:19:05 AM
Which retirement funds?

 Exactly!  :clapping:


 Probably the same one that Putin is looting to prop up his oligarch buddies.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 05, 2015, 05:07:00 AM
Another 50 or so terrorists will return to Russia soon.


Birukov: «Cyborgs» destroyed Russian Special Forces group, militants and wounded two warlords



http://en.inforesist.org/birukov-cyborgs-destroyed-russian-special-forces-group-militants-and-wounded-two-warlords/


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 05, 2015, 05:09:44 AM
Another 50 or so terrorists will return to Russia soon.


Birukov: «Cyborgs» destroyed Russian Special Forces group, militants and wounded two warlords



http://en.inforesist.org/birukov-cyborgs-destroyed-russian-special-forces-group-militants-and-wounded-two-warlords/ (http://en.inforesist.org/birukov-cyborgs-destroyed-russian-special-forces-group-militants-and-wounded-two-warlords/)
You must feel sooooooo happy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 05, 2015, 05:10:13 AM
Still clinging to the forlorn hope of oil going back up to $80 soon Doll?

http://news.yahoo.com/oil-prices-hits-fresh-five-half-lows-brent-032529368.html

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 05, 2015, 05:16:01 AM
Still clinging to the forlorn hope of oil going back up to $80 soon Doll?

http://news.yahoo.com/oil-prices-hits-fresh-five-half-lows-brent-032529368.html (http://news.yahoo.com/oil-prices-hits-fresh-five-half-lows-brent-032529368.html)

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

There are two possibilites.
1. The current low prices will eventually cause a new oil crisis where the price will go far above the recent high.
2. Oil will be replaced by other energy systems, making the price tumble to production cost

Either way, you can laugh now but will pay later.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 05, 2015, 05:28:16 AM
What's wrong with cheering for low oil prices?
Don't you drive a car?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 05, 2015, 05:29:48 AM
Public sector employees and state-owned enterprises was forced to resign on unpaid leave of absence until January 12, and for the first month of the year they will receive a salary that is 30% less than the usual salary. It is reported "Krym.Realii."

 "Employees of the various budget areas of the Crimea forced to go on a 11-day January vacation at his own expense," - said in a statement.

 In private conversations with the publication of a number of Republican structures workers admitted that they have to be on vacation from 1 to 11 January 2015, because in Russia these days officially declared the weekend.

 "Before the New Year at work we were warned that in January we will get paid 30% less than the sum of the put," - said an employee of one of the educational institutions of the Crimea.

 On the other SOEs wage cuts, according to the interlocutors, explain the alleged lack of money in the budget, respectively subordinates released in a long time off at their own expense: "Caution: if we go to work earlier than January 12, it will not pay."

 "Previously, when Ukraine has never happened. Despite the holidays, wages were paid in full, and now trim" - state employees complain

http://ukranews.com/news/152466.Krimskih-byudzhetnikov-otpvravlyayut-v-neotplachivaemiy-otpusk-i-urezayut-zarplatu-na-30.ru
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 05, 2015, 05:35:27 AM
What's wrong with cheering for low oil prices?
Don't you drive a car?
It is great today, problem is that tomorrow we may have to pay double.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 05, 2015, 09:46:29 AM
Buffet is an Obama guy.

Talking about his company share selections, not his politics.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 05, 2015, 01:44:30 PM
There are two possibilites.
1. The current low prices will eventually cause a new oil crisis where the price will go far above the recent high.

"Far above" as above $100/bbl+ is incorrect.   If the low prices curtail new production worldwide, demand will eventually outpace supply, and prices will rise.  Keep in mind this would trigger new production (more supply) and  prices will lower again.   Meanwhile the world is enjoying 1-2 years of a 50% sale on gasoline.   It is good, real good, unless you live in North Dakota or Russia or own stock in leveraged drillers. 


Quote
2. Oil will be replaced by other energy systems....

The great pie in the sky dream.  The alternative sources of energy are economically viable only when prices are high.  In fact, even research is curtailed when prices are low.  Why do you think the Saudis are over supplying the world?  It inhibits the R&D of alternative sources. 

Quote
    ....making the price tumble to production cost.       

Oil is now priced below new production costs.  Why do you think the Saudis are over supplying the world?  It stops new production projects, and the current price is well below the cost of fracking.   

Again, please read the first week's lecture of Natural Resource Economics 101. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 05, 2015, 01:55:19 PM
Speaking of oil, I just saw that it is now down to under $50 per barrel.  I just saw a price quoted of $49.77.  Doll, you claim that oil will get to $80 per barrel this year.  Good luck with that prediction coming true.   :devil:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 05, 2015, 02:26:00 PM
Oil is projected to go as low as $33 per barrel this year.  If that doesn't cause a lot of financial pain in Russia, I don't know what will.  A total financial collapse like 1998 might be coming for Russia.  Too bad.   :devil:


excerpt
Brent futures, in free fall Monday, have already sunk below $55 per barrel, losing nearly 6 percent to just above $53 per barrel.

From a technical perspective, the next target in WTI is north of $48 per barrel, but there is a case to be made for the low $30s per barrel.

"The ultimate target is now $33. That's how it sets up on the charts and that's a pronounced double bottom," said John Kilduff of Again Capital. He said the market consolidated in December but is now set on forging new lows. WTI closed at $33.98 on Feb. 12, 2009, and it is now trading at levels last seen in April 2009.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/as-oil-breaks-dollar50-wall-street-getting-more-bearish/ar-BBhy1yG?ocid=mailsignout

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 05, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
It is great today, problem is that tomorrow we may have to pay double.

"Double" is what we were paying.  So today we are enjoying a 50% price reduction in gasoline (perhaps less of a reduction in Europe if the steep taxes you pay are independent of oil price).  Paying less is great even if the market returns to the old prices in a year or two or more. 

If the electric company reduced its rate for electricity to half of what it is today, you would be happy, yes?

R-E-L-A-X. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 05, 2015, 03:18:08 PM
Oil is projected to go as low as $33 per barrel this year.  If that doesn't cause a lot of financial pain in Russia, I don't know what will.  A total financial collapse like 1998 might be coming for Russia.  Too bad.   :devil:

Financial pain, yes; collapse, no.   There may even be some talk of sovereign default,  meaning interest rates would skyrocket and access to capital markets curtailed.  This would cause a recession, perhaps even a depression. 

Countries still survive, particularly as there would still be oil and gas revenue.   However, without access to capital, investments needed to maintain oil field production levels would not be made (producing oil in the northern climes is expensive and needs capital for infrastructure construction).  So the O&G revenues would decline even if the international price remained stable. 

Countries survive in such conditions by printing more money, lowering the value of their currency.  The world knows this and that is why the ruble is now rubble.  Yet pensioners and ordinary workers are still paid the same amount.

The above combination  would bring inflation and reduced employment.  The poor would become poorer.  Junked Ladas would be refurbished.  Imports would be limited to used cars from an untethered Cuba.   Maybe one day Russia will have to ask Ukraine for a loan.  All because of the lack of vision by a man named Vladimir and his inner circle of enriched friends.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 05, 2015, 03:25:17 PM

The above combination  would bring inflation and reduced employment.  The poor would become poorer.  Junked Ladas would be refurbished.  Imports would be limited to used cars from an untethered Cuba.   Maybe one day Russia will have to ask Ukraine for a loan.  All because of the lack of vision by a man named Vladimir and his inner circle of enriched friends.


CUCKOOOO CUCKOOOO CUCKOOOO!    :ROFL:


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 05, 2015, 03:32:50 PM

CUCKOOOO CUCKOOOO CUCKOOOO!    :ROFL:


Not the first two sentences.  The facetious examples show that Russia's economy relative to other nations would decline.  This year Russia's GDP declined by 50% based in dollars. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 05, 2015, 06:24:24 PM

CUCKOOOO CUCKOOOO CUCKOOOO!    :ROFL:


Fathertime!   

Lol
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 06, 2015, 02:18:09 AM
The never ending story of the rubble slide!! After a little respite as the west was busy celebrating goodwill-- the rubble recommences it's downward path !!
Along with oil at USD$48 minus and dropping .
Russia is not heading to a recession--but a depression!!


1.00 USD   =   62.4741 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 62.4741 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0160066 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-01-06 09:13 UTC
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 06, 2015, 07:57:27 AM

Russia's Ruble Tumbles as Oil Prices Keep Falling  :clapping:

Russia's ruble fell more than 6 percent against the U.S. dollar on Monday, dragged down by weaker oil prices in volatile holiday trade.

At 5:36 p.m. in Moscow, the ruble was 6.4 percent weaker at 59.59 rubles to the dollar and 3 percent weaker against the euro at 70.74.

Oil prices, which have declined more than 50 percent from peaks in June last year, hit a five-and-a-half year low as doubts about global growth fanned fears of a supply glut.

The Russian currency fell around 40 percent against the dollar last year, hurt by the falling oil price and by Western sanctions over Ukraine, which made it harder for Russian companies to borrow abroad and spurred demand for dollars.

The dollar also firmed against other currencies, with the euro falling to a nine-year low against the U.S. currency as investors bet the European Central Bank would soon begin a program of buying bonds, so-called quantitative easing.

Russian shares were mixed on Monday, largely reflecting moves in the ruble.

The dollar-denominated RTS index was down 4.9 percent at 752 points. The ruble-based MICEX traded 1.8 percent higher at 1,422 points.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/514042.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 06, 2015, 09:26:26 AM
The ruble ended over 60 to the dollar yesterday and is slated to go higher.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 06, 2015, 02:19:42 PM
Amazing stat
Fourth Russian General Commits Suicide in Less Than a Year

Police in the Russian capital said that they had found Kudryavtsev’s body in his flat in southwestern Moscow. It’s reported that he had hung himself and left a suicide note explaining that he had suffered "excruciating pain" as a result of his stomach cancer and that he did not “blame anyone” for his death.

http://www.newsweek.com/fourth-russian-general-commits-suicide-less-year-297055
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 06, 2015, 04:16:01 PM
Amazing stat
Fourth Russian General Commits Suicide in Less Than a Year

Police in the Russian capital said that they had found Kudryavtsev’s body in his flat in southwestern Moscow. It’s reported that he had hung himself and left a suicide note explaining that he had suffered "excruciating pain" as a result of his stomach cancer and that he did not “blame anyone” for his death.

http://www.newsweek.com/fourth-russian-general-commits-suicide-less-year-297055

The death certificates have been known to lie . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on January 06, 2015, 04:29:11 PM
The ruble ended over 60 to the dollar yesterday and is slated to go higher.

Jone , you have to stay on cue with the topic......only 'bad' news is reported here. :-X
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 06, 2015, 05:01:10 PM
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/putinnewclothes_zps0ada2845.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 06, 2015, 05:07:37 PM
It is great today, problem is that tomorrow we may have to pay double.

Hey, Shadow, why the long face?  Most people would rejoice at having a windfall. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 06, 2015, 05:19:57 PM
Jone , you have to stay on cue with the topic......only 'bad' news is reported here. :-X

I am guessing you interpreted as meaning a better rate--I read higher as more rubble to the USD  ie--   currently 62 and heading for 80 --that being higher!!  So that is BAD news !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 07, 2015, 05:55:10 AM
The midget president must be tearing out whatever hair he has left at the sight of the continuing tanking oil price.

http://news.yahoo.com/oil-slumps-lows-supply-glut-005658248.html

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 07, 2015, 02:06:39 PM
Time for him and his oligarchs to try a time honored round of Russian Roulette with a full chamber. :D

 If the oil continues like this or stays at this level Russian government will fold in 45-60 days.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 07, 2015, 02:24:59 PM
Actually, Mike,

I see the Russian economy as much more resilient than tanking immediately.  Perhaps you were employing hyperbole?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on January 07, 2015, 05:50:43 PM
Time for him and his oligarchs to try a time honored round of Russian Roulette with a full chamber. :D

 If the oil continues like this or stays at this level Russian government will fold in 45-60 days.

Unfortunately the situation in Ukraine is worse. I know the talk here is More Bad News for Russia but things
are not looking up in next few years.  :(

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-05/ukraine-bonds-at-60-cents-seen-signaling-risk-of-default.html?cmpid=yhoo
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 07, 2015, 06:26:05 PM


 If the oil continues like this or stays at this level Russian government will fold in 45-60 days.


That sounds like an exaggeration to me....but we shall see in 45-60 days if oil stays at this price what the result is on the Russian government...   


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 07, 2015, 06:58:54 PM
Actually, Mike,

I see the Russian economy as much more resilient than tanking immediately.  Perhaps you were employing hyperbole?

There is a solid chance that crisis level is not to far away--I wrote sometime ago that the Russian reserves were less than half what they claim--hence them declining to keep attempting to shore up rubble price. Spasmodically they have attempted to again- but only very temporary relief from the downward slide.
Russia has attempted and is attempting to cajole others into helping(saving?) them-- an example of how little understanding of the depth of of distaste and contempt the world has for Russia right now.
To reverse that-- Putin would have to make a huge climbdown and it is highly unlikely that would happen .
My guess--they will attempt to negotiate to hang on to as much as possible .

Meanwhile--the slide continues

1.00 USD   =   62.6600 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 62.6600 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0159591 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-01-08 01:50 UTC
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 07, 2015, 08:21:50 PM
Does anyone here have personal knowledge of Russian Conditional Currency Units (UE) or 'uslovnaya yedinitsa'?

It's apparently a form of 'alternate currency' in Russia tied to the USD or Euro (for stability) and it's being traded, the only word I can apply here I guess, by Russian business and population to avoid using the legal but worthless Ruble.

Is this legal tender or some form of black market coupon?

Who prints the stuff and is there coinage?

And how the hell did they (who ever "they" are) manage to tie it to a stable western currency?

...Trust the Russians to find a way around their own tanking currency. :P

Hmmm, I think I'll print Brass Bucks as an alternate to CAD...

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: bagalia on January 07, 2015, 11:11:53 PM
Does anyone here have personal knowledge of Russian Conditional Currency Units (UE) or 'uslovnaya yedinitsa'?

It's apparently a form of 'alternate currency' in Russia tied to the USD or Euro (for stability) and it's being traded, the only word I can apply here I guess, by Russian business and population to avoid using the legal but worthless Ruble.

Is this legal tender or some form of black market coupon?

Who prints the stuff and is there coinage?

And how the hell did they (who ever "they" are) manage to tie it to a stable western currency?

...Trust the Russians to find a way around their own tanking currency. :P

Hmmm, I think I'll print Brass Bucks as an alternate to CAD...

Brass

If I understand you correctly, it is not what you think. It basically means dollars. So if you wanted to buy something from me and asked how much it costs I might say 200 UE which would mean 200 dollars. In USA speak we might say 200 bucks vs dollars.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 08, 2015, 12:37:50 AM
Quote
Russian Conditional Currency Units (UE)

Brass, the Moscow Times did a piece on this recently. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/conditional-currency-makes-comeback-as-retailers-lose-trust-in-russia-s-ruble/513307.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 08, 2015, 12:47:04 AM
If I understand you correctly, it is not what you think. It basically means dollars. So if you wanted to buy something from me and asked how much it costs I might say 200 UE which would mean 200 dollars. In USA speak we might say 200 bucks vs dollars.

Hiya Bagalia welcome aboard!

Ok, I've had time to look in to this a bit and I think you're right. Most of the links were in Russian but I found something that makes some sense here...

Press // Russian press

Companies Switch From Rubles to U.E.

..."While conditional units — known as u.e. in Russian — were originally a euphemism for the U.S. dollar during the period of the ruble's instability in the 1990s, it has since come to represent values ranging from the dollar to the euro to a ratio between the two.

 The government, fueled by complaints from confused buyers and pride in the then-robust ruble, initiated a crackdown on conditional units from 2004 to 2006. But a loophole provided by two competing pieces of legislation suggests that there is room to maneuver.

 Companies are maneuvering as they scramble to minimize losses from the depreciating ruble, which has lost nearly 20 percent of its value since November. The Central Bank said Thursday that it had "finished" with the devaluation of the ruble.

 Real estate developer PIK Group began listing its prices in conditional units at the beginning of January, spokeswoman Natalya Konovalova said. The company calculates the mean of the dollar and the euro based on Central Bank rates, and clients pay the company the equivalent amount in rubles.

 "The use of conventional units was around four years ago, and now because of the economic downturn a lot of builders are using this form of measurement again," she said.

 Most developers are quoting prices in dollars or conditional units these days, she said.

 The use of conditional units is appearing in other sectors as well. Advertising agency Begun has started selling online ads for 2 to 50 conditional units apiece. The trend is also popular in the auto sector, where foreign cars produced by BMW, Toyota, Mazda and Mitsubishi are priced in conditional units based on euro or dollar rates, Autonews.ru reported."...

http://neftegaz.ru/en/press/view/5566

The website is dated today but I'm not sure how recent the actual article is.

I'm still a bit confused as to how this system works though. It seems all some Russian companies are doing is charging American/EU prices for Russian goods and services.  :P

Brass

Edit: Just reading it now Mendy, thanks.

What's your take on this? Seems a bit fantastical to me.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 02:15:15 AM
Russia faces 'perfect storm' as reserves vanish and derivatives flash default warnings

BNP Paribas says Russia no longer has enough reserves to cover external debt and enters this crisis 'twice as levered' as it was before the Lehman crash


Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
By  Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor

9:02PM GMT 06 Jan 2015

Russia’s foreign reserves have dropped to the lowest level since the Lehman crisis and are vanishing at an unsustainable rate as the country struggles to defends the rouble against capital flight.


Central bank data show that a blitz of currency intervention depleted reserves by $26bn in the two weeks to December 26, the fastest pace of erosion since the crisis in Ukraine erupted early last year.


Credit defaults swaps (CDS) measuring bankruptcy risk for Russia spiked violently on Tuesday, surging by 100 basis points to 630, before falling back slightly.


Markit says this implies a 32pc expectation of a sovereign default over the next five years, the highest since Western sanctions and crumbling oil prices combined to cripple the Russian economy.


Total reserves have fallen from $511bn to $388bn in a year. The Kremlin has already committed a third of what remains to bolster the domestic economy in 2015, greatly reducing the amount that can be used to defend the rouble.



The Institute for International Finance (IIF) says the danger line is $330bn, given the dollar liabilities of Russian companies and chronic capital flight.

Currency intervention did stabilise the exchange rate in late December after a spectacular crash threatened to spin out of control, but relief is proving short-lived.

The rouble weakened sharply to 64 against the dollar on Tuesday. It has slumped moe than 20pc since Christmas, with increasing contagion to Belarus, Georgia and other closely-linked economies.

There are signs that Russia’s crisis may undermine President Vladimir’s Putin’s Eurasian Economic Union before it has got off the ground. Belarus’s Alexander Lukashenko is already insisting that trade be carried out in US dollars, while Kazakhstan’s Nursultan Nazarbayev warned that the Russian crash poses a “major risk” to the new venture.

The rouble is trading in lockstep with Brent crude, which has continued its relentless slide this week, falling to a five-year low of $51.50 a barrel. “If oil drops to $45 or lower and stays there, Russia is going to face a big problem,” said Mikhail Liluashvili, from Oxford Economics. “The central bank will try to smooth volatility but they will have to let the rouble fall and this could push inflation to 20pc.”

Under the Russian central bank’s “emergency scenario”, GDP may contract by as much as 4.7pc this year if oil settles at $60. The damage could be worse following the bank’s contentious decision to raise rates from 9.5pc to 17pc in December. BNP Paribas says that each 1pc rise in rates cuts 0.8pc off GDP a year later.



BNP’s Tatiana Tchembarova said the situation is more serious than in 2008, when Russia had to spend $170bn to rescue its banks. This time it no longer has enough reserves to cover external debt, and it enters the crisis “twice as levered”.

Mr Putin has imposed partial capital controls by forcing companies to repatriate foreign currency. This has bought time and shored up the rouble for a few days, but it is a disguised form of reserve depletion since many of these companies will need dollars to repay debt.

Many of these companies are pillars of the Russian economy or energy champions. Their dollar debts are implicitly liabilities of the Russian state since these firms cannot be left to default. The oil giant Rosneft has requested $46bn in state aid to help meet repayments and cover investment.

Igor Sechin, Rosneft’s chairman, expects oil to recover in the second half of 2015 and fluctuate between $70 and $75 but warned that the group would have to retrench. “Some high-cost projects will be postponed,” he said. Analysts at Sberbank said the group faces a “very difficult year”.

The total foreign debt of Russian companies and state entities is $654bn. They have to repay roughly $10bn a month since they are shut out of international capital markets and cannot roll over loans.

The IIF’s Lubomir Mitov said the oil crash could leave Russia with a current account deficit of 3.5pc of GDP. Each $10 fall in crude cuts export revenue by 2pc of GDP. This comes on top chronic capital flight and the collapse of inward flows due to sanctions. The overall “financing gap” could soon reach 10pc of GDP, putting enormous strain on the rouble. “It’s a perfect storm,” he said.

The interest costs on hard-currency debt have suddenly doubled in rouble terms. While commodity exporters earn matching dollars, Russian property developers and domestic companies with dollar-debt have no such buffer.

Russia’s RTS index of stocks has fallen by 62pc since early 2011 but smaller companies have been hit far harder. Kingsmill Bond, Sberbank’s chief strategist, said Russian equities are among the cheapest in the world and are trading on fear, ignoring the country’s strategic depth. “People have been selling indiscriminately. Once the oil price stabilises, it will be a perfect time to buy illiquid domestic stocks, like the homebuilder ISR,” he said.

Mr Bond said brave investors who bought Russian stocks at the nadir of the crisis in 2008-2009 were rewarded with gain of up 1,000pc. “First we have to wait for oil to hit bottom,” he said.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 08, 2015, 03:40:49 AM
Russia faces 'perfect storm' as reserves vanish and derivatives flash default warnings

BNP Paribas says Russia no longer has enough reserves to cover external debt and enters this crisis 'twice as levered' as it was before the Lehman crash

Russia’s foreign reserves have dropped to the lowest level since the Lehman crisis and are vanishing at an unsustainable rate as the country struggles to defends the rouble against capital flight.

Central bank data show that a blitz of currency intervention depleted reserves by $26bn in the two weeks to December 26, the fastest pace of erosion since the crisis in Ukraine erupted early last year.


Markit says this implies a 32pc expectation of a sovereign default over the next five years, the highest since Western sanctions and crumbling oil prices combined to cripple the Russian economy.


Currency intervention did stabilise the exchange rate in late December after a spectacular crash threatened to spin out of control, but relief is proving short-lived.

The rouble weakened sharply to 64 against the dollar on Tuesday. It has slumped moe than 20pc since Christmas, with increasing contagion to Belarus, Georgia and other closely-linked economies.

“The central bank will try to smooth volatility but they will have to let the rouble fall and this could push inflation to 20pc.”
 

Throw in that the "official" numbers in some areas are at best "suspect" and like a lot emanating out of Russia-likely to be untrue. It is not likely that the numbers are being reported conservatively!! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 03:48:06 AM
But, but, but, If it's shown on RT it has to be correct!

Right? ;) ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 03:51:18 AM
Site "Peacemaker" published information about nine thousand terrorists





Active assistants in gathering information about terrorists who are fighting against Ukraine were Russians

This is your page on Facebook written adviser Interior Minister Anton Gerashchenko.

"A few weeks ago I presented a project to collect data on terrorists and separatists, a group of like-minded people to help in the Interior Ministry and SBU - site Peacemaker" - wrote Gerashchenko.

As of January 7 Online harvested and processed about 9000 terrorists and their supporters. And that's just the beginning.

Site "Peacemaker" made considerable commotion in terrorist and separatist circles.

According to information gathered by the site "Peacemaker" to block posts on departure from the area TUs were detained about 150 terrorists and their supporters who thought their arts nobody knows.

Bandits and terrorists came to this site and was horrified to learn that all their innocent Self with guns and grenade launchers collected and included the careful hands of volunteers and their boastful escapades ever recorded and will be used against them.

And among the most active volunteers were thinking Site Russian citizens who were massively send by e-mail website information of Russian terrorists, mercenaries and Russian soldiers, they found a Russian social networks and forums.

With the help of Russian friends Ukraine, we now have the personnel lists a number of units of the Russian armed forces without a declaration of war invaded the Ukraine and kill our citizens.

These lists are proof of unleashing an aggressive war Putin at the upcoming International Tribunal on Crimes of Ukraine.

Thanks to the active support of the idea of ​​gathering public information about gangsters and terrorists became aware of the fact that in the last month in social networks have closed their accounts or started pretending "poor sheep" 30% previously active supporters of ideas "New Russia".

"They were probably scared so much the idea sooner or later bear criminal responsibility for their actions and become persona non grata in the civilized world" - Gerashchenko wrote.

It is also interesting that after the presentation of the site "Peacemaker" his interest in foreign intelligence - the CIA, FBI, European intelligence and counterintelligence.
 The reason is simple - civilized countries, drawing from the site "Peacemaker" about pro-terrorist fighters will create their own databases of suspicious persons and persons must disarm and isolated from society.

Another interesting aspect of the success of the website "Peacemaker" is that criminals and terrorists, finding themselves on the site, start to think about what they can expect in the near future if they usually stay alive and not follow in the wake Hell for "Batman" and a group of his fellow killed in an ambush by his own accomplices in "FSC".

Hotline SBU, after the execution group "Batman" called dozens of militants to the question - how can you be sure of amnesty to voluntary transition to the Ukrainian side.

All of them provided security guarantees if they do not have time to do grave and especially grave crimes, and if they will assist in exposing their less prudent associates that are on the dark side.

Anton Gerashchenko noted that telephone "hotline" is protected by listening, because all the militants, who want to collaborate with the SBU guaranteed anonymity. "For your safety, the militants-terrorists are the temporarily-occupied territory or Russia, it is recommended to call via Skype, or use other means of Internet telephony. So FSB security services and militants can not determine where you called the hotline and how SBU phone number You use "- he wrote.

If you do not know themselves how to use Internet telephony - ask a friend whom you trust and who has these skills.

In the future site "Peacemaker" will become like Vienna Simon Wiesenthal Center, which since the late forties and is now engaged in tracking and catching Nazi war criminals.

Only in this case are criminals who destroyed the people of Ukraine - traitors, kollabortsionistov, Russian and other mercenaries and military personnel involved in unannounced and therefore illegal war with Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 08, 2015, 10:17:20 AM
The worm turns.   I read this dispatch, Mike, and believe it will impact a number of potential fighters.  Ultimately Russia has not been very protective of its mercenaries.  Russia still claims plausible deniability.  Imagine, tomorrow, that Putin cuts a deal to get his economy moving again.  Any fighters in Eastern Ukraine become immediate pariahs.  And Russia will not even remember ever having done business with them.   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 10:28:58 AM
Oh gee whilkers! ;)


Then they'd get what they deserve!


 Here's the main 'Peacemaker site'.

http://psb4ukr.org/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 08, 2015, 10:45:08 AM
The political murder of Batman was that to prevent him from arming groups hostile to the Kremlin?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 08, 2015, 10:49:08 AM
Oh gee whilkers! ;)


Then they'd get what they deserve!


 Here's the main 'Peacemaker site'.

http://psb4ukr.org/ (http://psb4ukr.org/)
:D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 11:14:26 AM
Report Names Birthplaces of Russian Soldiers 'Killed in Ukraine'
The Moscow Times Jan. 07 2015 15:09

Activist website Open Russia has published a map detailing the birthplaces of all Russian soldiers believed to have died fighting in Ukraine in 2014, with the largest group reported to have come from Moscow.

The report is based on a list of names released in November by the Gruz-200 group, a pro-Ukrainian grassroots organization that used publicly available information to determine the number and identities of 227 men believed to have died fighting in Ukraine in 2014.

The information relies on media reports and interviews with relatives of the deceased. Open Russia issued a disclaimer saying there was no way to verify whether all information obtained from Gruz-200 was accurate, but that Open Russia had conducted its own checks of the information offered.

Information on the deaths of Russian soldiers believed to have died in Ukraine has come largely from activists and opposition-minded journalists, while Russia's Defense Ministry has maintained that no Russian soldiers were sent to Ukraine.

Many journalists and Western leaders have maintained that there is ample evidence of Russia's direct involvement in the conflict.

The report published by Open Russia on Tuesday claimed that 15 Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine last year came from Moscow, 10 from recently annexed Crimea, 11 from the restive North Caucasus republic of Dagestan and nine from St. Petersburg.

Another nine were said to have come from the Rostov region, which is close to the border with Ukraine. The southern Krasnodar region just east of Crimea reportedly lost nine soldiers.

Chechnya also appeared on the list, with seven Russian troops reported to have died in Ukraine last year having come from the predominantly Muslim republic, the leader of which has expressed support for the separatists in eastern Ukraine.

In a separate report, Open Russia is compiling detailed information on each of the soldiers reported to have died in the line of duty. A statement on the website says all of the information has been verified as best as it can be.

"In each case, we search for confirmation, try to determine the time and location of death and the most trustworthy sources," the statement said.

An initiative among activists and journalists to prove that Russian soldiers were sent to Ukraine kicked into high gear in mid-November, when 12 Russian paratroopers were buried in the Pskov region, their cause of death unknown.

Speculation ran rampant that the men had died fighting alongside separatists in eastern Ukraine, although Russia's Defense Ministry denied this and refused to disclose information on their cause of death.

The soldiers' grave markers were removed after journalists began asking questions, and an attack on several journalists who went to Pskov to research the soldiers' deaths fueled further speculation of a cover-up.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/514112.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 11:23:10 AM
Lithuania Publishes Survival Manual in Case of Russian Invasion

By Damien Sharkov   1/7/15 at 6:29 PM


Lithuania’s national defence minister Juozas Olekas unveiled a new public information book entitled ‘How to act in extreme situations or instances of war’ at a press conference on Tuesday evening, prompted by the threat of a Russian invasion, Baltic news service Delfi reports.

Olekas was speaking in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius, at the launch of a new joint project between the ministry of defence and Lithuania’s fire brigade. The project aims to educate the population about what to do in emergencies and war-time situations, which the defence minister said has been made more urgent due to “Russia’s recurring aggression against its neighbours - presently in Ukraine”.

Speaking to the gathered journalists, Olekas said the project would culminate in the general release of the manual which would instruct Lithuanians “to not only know how to act during the organization of civil resistance, but also how to act under battlefield conditions."

The book is almost 100 pages long and hard copies of it will be distributed by the ministry of national defence in secondary schools, public libraries and in non-governmental organisations, while an e-book version will be made available for download from the ministry of defence website as soon as next week, according to Olekas.

Interestingly, the project is intended to address issues of a “hybrid war”, a term which has been use by the Ukrainian government to describe Russia’s tactics in its territory. They have accused Russia of carrying out small-scale, covert military incursions in Ukraine whilst also skewing the news agenda to misinform the east Ukrainian population about the cause of the conflict and referring to the Ukrainian government as an “Illegitimate… Kiev junta”.

Olekas said the manual includes advice on conflicts in which “there are a number of elements that might vary and resemble civil-life situations.”

The Lithuanian booklet supposedly contains information on subjects including changes in government after a declaration of war, when a building ought to be evacuated and how to react to natural disasters.

Recently Russian president Vladimir Putin has adopted a similar rhetoric about Lithuania and its Baltic neighbours to the one he used to describe pro-EU protesters in Kiev last year. While on a visit to Serbia in October last year he warned that “open neo-nazism” had become “commonplace” in the Baltics.

Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, each of whom have large Russian speaking minorities, have experienced an enormous spike in the number of Russian military incursions in their airspace and waters in the last few months. 

Lithuania’s president Dalia Grybauskaitė has been one of the most outspoken critics of Russia, most recently moving to restrict the broadcast of Russian state channels on Lithuanian television.

Unlike Latvia and Estonia, where the Russian speaking minorities comprise of approximately a quarter of the total population, Lithuania has a smaller Russian minority - around 6% according to the country’s last census in 2011.

Lithuania does, however, border the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad, home of one of Russia’s largest historic military bases and its own membership in NATO has raised its geographic significance to Moscow as NATO has an airbase near the Lithuanian city of Šiauliai from which NATO ‘air police’ patrol flights take off and land.

http://www.newsweek.com/lithuania-publishes-book-educating-citizens-how-respond-russian-invasion-297347
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 08, 2015, 11:25:35 AM
The worm turns.   I read this dispatch, Mike, and believe it will impact a number of potential fighters.  Ultimately Russia has not been very protective of its mercenaries.  Russia still claims plausible deniability.  Imagine, tomorrow, that Putin cuts a deal to get his economy moving again.  Any fighters in Eastern Ukraine become immediate pariahs.  And Russia will not even remember ever having done business with them.   :rolleyes:


This story shows the fragile nature of the life of a Russian soldier who makes the decision to go and fight in the Donbas.  It also shows that the soldiers are trained to deny they were ordered to go there, and this adds to the probability that they will soon be forgotten if they die.  It's an Orwellian system stacked against the likes of Petr Khokhlov, a former orphan who became a professional soldier in Russia, and likely went to the Donbas in hopes of making even more money as a paid "volunteer".  Read the story carefully and you will see how easy it is for Russian officials to deny sending him there.



excerpt
"The video, posted by the S.B.U., Ukraine’s internal security service, showed what seemed to be an interrogation. It began with Petr introducing himself as a “citizen of the Russian Federation.” A green curtain hung behind him, the only visible detail in an otherwise featureless tableau. Under questioning, Petr described his involvement in an act of outright aid to Russian-­speaking rebels, who by then were three months into a grinding war with the government in Kiev. His brigade, he said, was stationed in Rostov, a region of Russia that borders Ukraine. After a month of living in tents, the soldiers received an order from the company commander. They were told to strip 14 armored vehicles of all identifying markings, everything from the license plates to the serial numbers on the gun turrets, and then drive them toward the border. There, Petr told his interrogators in a rushed monotone, “we were told that the vehicles were handed off to some Chechens, and they were to be passed to the rebels.

This happened several times, Petr explained, listing the last names of the officers who gave the orders: Sashenko, Polomotov, Dultsev. Sergey noticed that at certain moments in Petr’s account — when he talked of passing military hardware to the rebels or of seeing separatist fighters fire grenades and mortars at civilians — the officers standing next to him in the draft office muttered, even winced. “He knows a lot of information,” one said ominously."


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/magazine/a-russian-soldier-vanishes-in-ukraine.html?_r=1
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 11:47:32 AM
That was very good AC!
Thanks
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 08, 2015, 11:49:40 AM
That was very good AC!
Thanks

Ochen Horosho.  No problem, I thought it was an outstanding profile of just one courageous yet opportunistic young man, led astray by the dogs of war.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 11:55:51 AM
It'll be interesting to see how the local 'vatniks' will spin this news. :D :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 08, 2015, 11:59:47 AM
It'll be interesting to see how the local 'vatniks' will spin this news. :D :D
Actually pretty simple. Such videos always remind me of the videos we see from Iran or Iraq wehre America or British prisoners are giving interviews and read declarations.
No self-respecting country would seriously post such video, instead if true such information should come from an official trial.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 12:03:00 PM
Ah the first one!

Don't bother to read the text just look at the pictures..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 08, 2015, 12:05:08 PM
Ah the first one!

Don't bother to read the text just look at the pictures..
I can not help that you are living in a society where Hollywood is producing documentaries like Transformers. ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 01:04:21 PM
And yet it was you that didn't read just look at the pictures.. Hmmmm
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 08, 2015, 01:27:12 PM
And yet it was you that didn't read just look at the pictures.. Hmmmm
Very simple. I am not impressed by video's that violate the rights of humans, nor by sob stories by journalists. In fact they may simply be related in a combined fictional effort.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 08, 2015, 01:35:51 PM
Taping an interrogation of a terrorist/soldier is hardly a violation of human rights.. Get Real!

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 08, 2015, 02:00:30 PM
Taping an interrogation of a terrorist/soldier is hardly a violation of human rights.. Get Real!

Belvis, Doll and Shadow all live in a bizarre alternate Universe of their own creation (or more precisely created by the Putin professional propagandists).  Arguing with them is a waste of time, except that somebody without knowledge sitting on the fence might be lulled by their conspiracy theories and denials.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on January 08, 2015, 02:58:55 PM
Taping an interrogation of a terrorist/soldier is hardly a violation of human rights.. Get Real!
So you believe that the Youtube videos put up by IS are not violiting the rights of those people shown at all? And of course their declarations are fully and completely accurate and true.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 08, 2015, 03:07:42 PM
So you believe that the Youtube videos put up by IS are not violiting the rights of those people shown at all? And of course their declarations are fully and completely accurate and true.


According to Doll, they are all fake. Youtube, you know.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 08, 2015, 06:20:16 PM
The journalist, Joshua Yaffa, did a very credible job, and for those who are not of sufficient intelligence to dare to read something that might challenge cherished beliefs, the writer presented both sides of several of the events described.

He is an accredited journalist by the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and lives in Moscow. His status as a journalist with the Russian government is what allowed him to go where he went and see what he observed. To write crap or fluff would be an open invitation to be kicked out of the country. It would not be a stretch to say that he rubs shoulders from time to time with folk like Sergei Lavrov, Sergei Ivanov, the always engaging Dmitry Peskov, and others. Joshua writes for a variety of publications, some liberal and others conservative, including The Economist, The New York Times, Bloomberg, Foreign Affairs, and The New Republic.

His report falls in line generally with other stories in the Rostov area. Some of these fighters were recruited prior getting out of the military, and some of them were unemployed ex-military before taking their personal tanks and anti aircraft missile systems for a holiday across the border. Many of them have criminal backgrounds and/or few ties back home, thus being "expendable."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 08, 2015, 06:36:20 PM
They're still human beings . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 08, 2015, 06:40:51 PM
Actually pretty simple. Such videos always remind me of the videos we see from Iran or Iraq wehre America or British prisoners are giving interviews and read declarations.
No self-respecting country would seriously post such video, instead if true such information should come from an official trial.

I agree with Shadow that the video is a violation of human rights.  (I had read this article earlier.)  I also believe that water boarding is violating human rights.

But, being in a grey area, here, I can see that some such information may be used to save lives.  I also believe, that were Russians presented with such a problem of human rights violations, there would be no hesitation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 09, 2015, 12:18:12 AM
How about the human rights of the Ukrainian victims that have been invaded, murdered and run out of their peaceful home and towns by these invaders?

Give them  the first bit of compassion before worrying about the dregs of Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 09, 2015, 02:31:19 AM
Putin and his band of thieves can't drive under their new law!  :D


Russia says drivers must not have 'sex disorders'

Russia has listed transsexual and transgender people among those who will no longer qualify for driving licences.

Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as "mental disorders" now barring people from driving.

The government says it is tightening medical controls for drivers because Russia has too many road accidents.

"Pathological" gambling and compulsive stealing are also on the list. Russian psychiatrists and human rights lawyers have condemned the move.

The announcement follows international complaints about Russian harassment of gay-rights activists.

In 2013 Russia made "promoting non-traditional lifestyles" illegal.

Valery Evtushenko at the Russian Psychiatric Association voiced concern about the driving restrictions, speaking to the BBC Russian Service. He said some people would avoid seeking psychiatric help, fearing a driving ban.

The Association of Russian Lawyers for Human Rights called the new law "discriminatory". It said it would demand clarifications from the Russian Constitutional Court and seek support from international human rights organisations.

But the Professional Drivers Union supported the move. "We have too many deaths on the road, and I believe toughening medical requirements for applicants is fully justified," said the union's head Alexander Kotov.

However, he said the requirements should not be so strict for non-professional drivers.

Mikhail Strakhov, a Russian psychiatric expert, told BBC Russian that the definition of "personality disorders" was too vague and some disorders would not affect a person's ability to drive a car safely.




http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30735673
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 09, 2015, 02:41:28 AM
Where do you see it?
http://government.ru/media/files/A5X9GSAYrpA.pdf
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 09, 2015, 02:48:34 AM
See what?

 The article above that I showed the link to?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 09, 2015, 04:41:37 AM
See what?

 The article above that I showed the link to?
This
Quote
Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as "mental disorders" now barring people from driving.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 09, 2015, 08:11:34 AM
Oh Boy.. :(


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 09, 2015, 09:02:42 AM
Oh Boy.. :(
\Again- where do you see all this stuff that you posted before?
Here is this law
http://government.ru/media/files/A5X9GSAYrpA.pdf
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 09, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
ПРАВИТЕЛЬСТВО РОССИЙСКОЙ ФЕДЕРАЦИИ
П О С Т А Н О В Л Е Н И Е
от 29 декабря 2014 г. № 1604
МОСКВА
О перечнях медицинских противопоказаний, медицинских показаний и медицинских ограничений к управлению транспортным средством
В соответствии с пунктом 4 статьи 231 Федерального закона "О безопасности дорожного движения" Правительство Российской Федерации п о с т а н о в л я е т :
Утвердить прилагаемые:
перечень медицинских противопоказаний к управлению транспортным средством;
перечень медицинских показаний к управлению транспортным средством;
перечень медицинских ограничений к управлению транспортным средством.
Председатель Правительства
Российской Федерации Д.Медведев
УТВЕРЖДЕН
постановлением Правительства
Российской Федерации
от 29 декабря 2014 г. № 1604
П Е Р Е Ч Е Н Ь
медицинских противопоказаний
к управлению транспортным средством
Наименование заболевания
Код заболевания по МКБ-10*
I. Психические расстройства и расстройства поведения (при наличии хронических и затяжных психических расстройств с тяжелыми стойкими или часто обостряющимися болезненными проявлениями)
1. Органические, включая симптоматические, психические расстройства
F00 - F09
2. Шизофрения, шизотипические и бредовые расстройства
F20 - F29
3. Расстройства настроения (аффективные расстройства)
F30 - F39
4. Невротические, связанные со стрессом и соматоформные расстройства
F40 - F48
5. Расстройства личности и поведения в зрелом возрасте
F60 - F69
6. Умственная отсталость
F70 - F79
II. Психические расстройства и расстройства поведения, связанные с употреблением психоактивных веществ (до прекращения диспансерного наблюдения в связи со стойкой ремиссией (выздоровлением)
7. Психические расстройства и расстройства поведения, связанные с употреблением психоактивных веществ
F10 - F16, F18, F19
2
Наименование заболевания
Код заболевания по МКБ-10*
III. Болезни нервной системы
8. Эпилепсия
G40
IV. Болезни глаза и его придаточного аппарата
9. Ахроматопсия
Н53.51
10. Слепота обоих глаз
H54.0
_________________
* Международная статистическая классификация болезней и проблем, связанных со здоровьем (10-й пересмотр).
____________
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 09, 2015, 11:57:04 AM
Translate it into the dominate language of this forum.


ENGLISH!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 09, 2015, 12:05:57 PM
Translate it into the dominate language of this forum.


ENGLISH!
I don't have to.
You posted about this law- I gave you the link.
There is NOTHING in it about any sexual minorities.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 09, 2015, 01:03:35 PM
Then take it up with the BBC.. They recently hired some Russians reporters fleeing the food shortages in a collapsing economy that were highly trained at Pravda, RT ect.  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 09, 2015, 02:08:44 PM
Then take it up with the BBC.. They recently hired some Russians reporters fleeing the food shortages in a collapsing economy that were highly trained at Pravda, RT ect.  :crackwhip:
What does BBC have to do with this law?
You want translation? Google 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 09, 2015, 02:28:56 PM
Doll, my Russian is horrible yet what I read says menopausal women are not allowed to drive.  True?    :D  (American humor, silly or stupid)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 09, 2015, 02:32:24 PM
Doll, my Russian is horrible yet what I read says menopausal women are not allowed to drive.  True?    :D  (American humor, silly or stupid)
Stupid :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: bagalia on January 09, 2015, 03:00:30 PM
I believe that the reference is within #5.

5. Расстройства личности и поведения в зрелом возрасте
F60 - F69

If you research it further you will find that F60-69 includes cross dressing and other sexual identity disorders. I know nothing of the link I will provide here but perhaps this (Russian) webpage will help you. Just scroll down to F61-65 about 3/4 down the page where these disorders are listed in more detail.

http://pryazka.narod.ru/lsd_10.html

The real question is will these conditions will be enforced within the law?

As it is, by law they can be enforced and listening to Putin you might get the feeling that he would prefer a Stalin-like solution to the situation with this class of people but would he buck the international outrage? Maybe and maybe not. Personally, I doubt it. There are enough other routes to take care of the problem.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 09, 2015, 05:58:29 PM
If this prediction is true then Putin and his cronies are really focked.  Oil set to hit $35 per barrel by this summer or sooner.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/inside-the-ticker/why-oil-prices-are-headed-below-dollar35-a-barrel/ar-AA7XI0p?ocid=AARDHP
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 09, 2015, 06:06:09 PM
If things get desperate enough, Putler can always turn to selling off chunks of Siberia or the Far East to the Chinese to raise cash to prop up his regime...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 09, 2015, 06:07:06 PM
More confirmation of the reversal of the Russian economy--

Fitch downgraded Russia's credit rating to "junk" level

Rating agency Fitch downgraded the credit rating of Russia from BBB to BBB- with a negative outlook.

Rating BBB- already perceived by investors as "junk", ie extremely unreliable and dangerous to invest, according to RBC-Ukraine with reference to the press service of the agency.
http://nvua.net/business/economics/fitch-ponizilo-kreditnyy-reyting-rossii-do-musornogo-urovnya-28811.html
Modify message
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 09, 2015, 06:09:48 PM
If things get desperate enough, Putler can always turn to selling off chunks of Siberia or the Far East to the Chinese to raise cash to prop up his regime...

Do you really believe that?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 09, 2015, 06:11:20 PM
If things get desperate enough, Putler can always turn to selling off chunks of Siberia or the Far East to the Chinese to raise cash to prop up his regime...

Maybe he will sell the former E. Prussia back to the Germans.  Better yet sell it to the Swiss -- they have always been a neutral nation!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 09, 2015, 06:12:30 PM
There is no evidence to support this line of thinking.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 09, 2015, 07:49:44 PM
If things get desperate enough, Putin can always turn to selling off chunks of Siberia or the Far East to the Chinese to raise cash to prop up his regime...
OMG!  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 09, 2015, 08:55:44 PM
Is not like there is no precedent of Russia selling off territories when they are short of money...


Does Alaska ring a bell?

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 09, 2015, 09:01:48 PM
Is not like there is no precedent of Russia selling off territories when they are short of money...


Does Alaska ring a bell?

 
Instead of rolling on the floor you'd better read something about the reasons why Russia sold Alaska.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 09, 2015, 09:44:25 PM
Instead of rolling on the floor you'd better read something about the reasons why Russia sold Alaska.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase
"Russia was in a difficult financial position and feared losing Russian America without compensation in some future conflict, especially to the British, whom they had fought in the Crimean War (1853–1856)."

What is the usual reason someone sell off assets?
Because they need the money.

Or maybe you can give me a link to a Kremlin history revisionist website where it will say the sale of Alaska by Russia was some brilliant strategic masterplan.  :cluebat:

If that sale price of 7 million dollars isn't the bargain of the millennium then I don't know what is.
Probably in Alaska an area of just 50km alone contains enough oil and minerals to be easily worth more than that 7 million sale price adjusted to present value.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 09, 2015, 10:08:04 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase
"Russia was in a difficult financial position and feared losing Russian America without compensation in some future conflict, especially to the British, whom they had fought in the Crimean War (1853–1856)."

What is the usual reason someone sell off assets?
Because they need the money.

Or maybe you can give me a link to a Kremlin history revisionist website where it will say the sale of Alaska by Russia was some brilliant strategic masterplan.  :cluebat:

If that sale price of 7 million dollars isn't the bargain of the millennium then I don't know what is.
Probably in Alaska an area of just 50km alone contains enough oil and minerals to be easily worth more than that 7 million sale price adjusted to present value.

I'm certainly happy about it.  AkMike is probably ecstatic about it since he's from Alaska.  The Canadians are probably happy they don't have a bunch of poor drunk Russians crossing their border looking for work like the problem we have in the south.  All in all a great deal! 

 :thumbsup:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 10, 2015, 01:44:30 AM
Quote
Instead of rolling on the floor you'd better read something about the reasons why Russia sold Alaska.

Doll, Since last year RBTH has been part of the Kremlin owned "Russia Today" enterprise, managed directly by Российская газета. Perhaps you would like the Kremlin's take on Russia's sale to Alaska.

http://rbth.com/arts/2014/04/20/why_did_russia_sell_alaska_to_the_united_states_36061.html (http://rbth.com/arts/2014/04/20/why_did_russia_sell_alaska_to_the_united_states_36061.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 10, 2015, 05:50:39 AM
I see now (about Alaska)
Putin will not do anything like this, this is for sure.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 10, 2015, 09:01:35 AM
Doll is right.  Russia will not sell Siberia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 10, 2015, 11:07:04 AM
Doll, Since last year RBTH has been part of the Kremlin owned "Russia Today" enterprise, managed directly by Российская газета. Perhaps you would like the Kremlin's take on Russia's sale to Alaska.

http://rbth.com/arts/2014/04/20/why_did_russia_sell_alaska_to_the_united_states_36061.html (http://rbth.com/arts/2014/04/20/why_did_russia_sell_alaska_to_the_united_states_36061.html)

What a surprise.  The Russians took a profitable area and turned it into a financial drain through corruption and misappropriation of natural resources.  The Crimean war was a convenient excuse to unload it.  The corrupt naval officers would have run it into the ground either way.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 10, 2015, 12:12:40 PM
I see now (about Alaska)
Putin will not do anything like this, this is for sure.

 It's ironic that Czarina Alexandra Feodorovna said the same thing about the sale of Alaska.  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 11, 2015, 07:58:52 PM
Is it the end of Putin's Novorossia fantasy?  It seems that Russian special forces have been either eliminating certain separatists (Batman) or forcing them to surrender.  This makes one wonder if the Russians are cleaning it up before notifying Ukraine that they are withdrawing, or simply putting the entire area firmly under Russian control prior to a complete invasion.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/11/is-this-the-end-of-putin-s-new-russia-fantasy.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 11, 2015, 08:21:12 PM
NoviRossiya militias are planning a right wing coup. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 11, 2015, 11:50:09 PM
Foregone conclusion that Russian bonds  to be downgraded to junk status...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/more-losses-loom-russian-bonds-060051485.html;_ylt=AwrBEiF1ZLNUwnoAmwzQtDMD

How is the midget president going to spin this great piece of news?
Kick all the international rating agencies out of the country, create his own Russian credit rating agency to give the country a AAA+ rating?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 12, 2015, 01:36:53 AM
 Lower again and falling everyday-- any predictions?Anyone here stupid enough to be buying rubble?Surely some of you russian believe anything Putin says brigade   are filling your coffers with rubble!!
1.00 USD   =   62.8967 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 62.8967 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0158991 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-01-12 08:27 UTC


Oil  @ 47.2  and dropping !!   Russian strategy was to up production to try and equal the same $ income--  zero chance of achieving that and  reserves will be being eaten now at alarming rate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 12, 2015, 03:08:54 AM
In a couple of month's time that mongoloid president Putin may wish the rubble is only 63 to the dollar and not something much much worst...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-12/top-russian-ruble-forecaster-sees-fresh-run-at-record-low.html?cmpid=yhoo
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2015, 09:34:56 AM
Will a recession if not depression in Russia change anything? 

The USSR collapsed for many reasons, yet perhaps the leading reason was the bad economy.  Before drawing parallels, the Soviet economy had been in a downturn for years and years before the USSR collapsed.  The current Russian downturn is just starting after years and years of growth.  Further, Putin has predicted a recovery in two years. 

A recession/depression will hurt the ordinary citizen, some of whom are relatives of RWD members.  If such happened in the US, the next election would "kick the bums out."   I have little faith that the Russian election process could do the same.   Even in a bad economy well entrenched dictators stay in power (e. g., Cuba).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 12, 2015, 09:45:07 AM
Elections prevent violent change of power.  Without elections, violent change of power is imminent.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 12, 2015, 10:17:42 AM
Elections prevent violent change of power.  Without elections, violent change of power is imminent.

Good observation, LT.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 12, 2015, 10:25:32 AM
Elections prevent violent change of power.  Without elections, violent change of power is imminent.

Putin first became President without being elected. 

Even when there were elections, Yeltsin was reelected after a long period of economic downturn.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin#mediaviewer/File:Russian_economy_since_fall_of_Soviet_Union.PNG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin#mediaviewer/File:Russian_economy_since_fall_of_Soviet_Union.PNG)


Yeltsin managed to stay in power even through the 1998 Russian default (when the ruble went from 5 to 21 per dollar).   The position of Prime Minister changed five times in 18 months until Putin was named.  Even though the economy grew in 1999,  Yeltsin resigned on December 31, 1999, and Putin named successor.  Yeltsin was never as well entrenched as Putin is today, which comes back to my point - will the economic downturn change anything?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 12, 2015, 11:46:22 AM
Yeltsin was never as well entrenched as Putin is today, which comes back to my point - will the economic downturn change anything?

Listening to the sentiments of Belvis and Doll I would say that is highly unlikely for at least a few years.  Russians seem to expect economic hard times and unless it continues to get much worse change will not happen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 12, 2015, 01:45:37 PM
Is it the end of Putin's Novorossia fantasy?  It seems that Russian special forces have been either eliminating certain separatists (Batman) or forcing them to surrender.  This makes one wonder if the Russians are cleaning it up before notifying Ukraine that they are withdrawing, or simply putting the entire area firmly under Russian control prior to a complete invasion.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/11/is-this-the-end-of-putin-s-new-russia-fantasy.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/11/is-this-the-end-of-putin-s-new-russia-fantasy.html)


This has been discussed ad nauseaum somewhere else.


The Russians want to join the two "independent" republics and have one Russian puppet in charge of destabilizing Ukraine. Everywhere else known as a Frozen Conflict.


In order to achieve that, the Russians have to eliminate the warlords in Lughansk and Donetsk before they set up their little kingdoms. See: Chechnya.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 12, 2015, 01:47:21 PM
Will a recession if not depression in Russia change anything? 




Yes, Putler will start the invasion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 12, 2015, 02:17:04 PM
Will a recession if not depression in Russia change anything? 

The USSR collapsed for many reasons, yet perhaps the leading reason was the bad economy.  Before drawing parallels, the Soviet economy had been in a downturn for years and years before the USSR collapsed.  The current Russian downturn is just starting after years and years of growth.  Further, Putin has predicted a recovery in two years. 

A recession/depression will hurt the ordinary citizen, some of whom are relatives of RWD members.  If such happened in the US, the next election would "kick the bums out."   I have little faith that the Russian election process could do the same.   Even in a bad economy well entrenched dictators stay in power (e. g., Cuba).

Gator--the relative prosperity of recent times is exactly the reason why Russians will react to the downturn much faster than in the past--now they are losing or without something they want!
Even if the sanctions were pulled today completely-- it would not save the Russian economies immediate fate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 12, 2015, 02:55:25 PM
Gator--the relative prosperity of recent times is exactly the reason why Russians will react to the downturn much faster than in the past--now they are losing or without something they want!
Even if the sanctions were pulled today completely-- it would not save the Russian economies immediate fate.

Sort of my thinking also.  After having a generation of relative freedom and prospering, how will Russians react to the old Soviet clampdowns and failing economy.  I would think it would be quicker than earlier.

Perhaps we should watch the women to see how they react.  Some might not like using beets for lipstick.     ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chicagoguy on January 12, 2015, 04:08:11 PM
My wife is older and has been through these downturns before. She believes Russians are tough and can handle it. But my thinking is latest upturn will be be remembered and downturn difficult to handle. Can they go from their BMW back to the Lada ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 12, 2015, 04:36:52 PM
Can they go from their BMW back to the Lada ?



Probably not so they'd be willing to support Putin on marching to Germany to steal those BMWs and Mercedes. I see the Russian people blaming their economic hardships on the West before they'd blame Putin. Remember who the Germans backed and blamed when they endured economic hardships due to having to pay war reparations after WW1? The result, WW2 and most people then, like today, thought world war wouldn't happen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 12, 2015, 05:12:18 PM
So in your estimation, the Russians want to fight a conventional war against Germany and the West?  Is that what you believe?  Why?  And why not just nuke the West?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 12, 2015, 05:40:19 PM
So in your estimation, the Russians want to fight a conventional war against Germany and the West?  Is that what you believe?  Why?  And why not just nuke the West?
are you serious?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 12, 2015, 05:48:05 PM
I just want this horrible "conflict" to end! Doesn't matter how.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 12, 2015, 06:05:19 PM
I just want this horrible "conflict" to end! Doesn't matter how.

Getting sick of the economic ruin and worthless currency already?
Good place to start will be for that midget mongoloid president of yours to kneel on broken glass to repent for his transgressions... :applause:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 12, 2015, 06:10:56 PM
I just want this horrible "conflict" to end! Doesn't matter how.

Are you gonna nuke us?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 12, 2015, 06:15:51 PM
Are you gonna nuke us?
Me? I am in the US
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 12, 2015, 06:20:13 PM
So in your estimation, the Russians want to fight a conventional war against Germany and the West? 



No, I don't believe Russia wants to fight a war against the west but war is possible because of a few reasons beyond even Putin's control. Putin may feel he would lose a world war but there's little chance he'd lose his country due to Russia's nuclear ability so we'd pause before going to Moscow but Putin does have a desire to hurt those who are hurting Russia and a war will disrupt lives in the West much more than it'll disrupt lives in Russia so in his estimation, the West will not win a war either but merely gain back the territories Russia will initially take.


A second reason is because NATO's Article 5 exists. If Ukraine is under assault, Poland and the Baltics may give Ukraine military assistance and there is an increased chance Russian soldiers will attack soldiers from a NATO alliance member. NATO isn't obligated to help Ukraine but ff that happens everybody becomes obligated to get involved to help Poland or a Baltic nation. Then everybody will be scratching their heads on how we got dragged into a war with Russia based on a conflict in Ukraine. History shows small skirmishes can start world wars and when a nation declares war on another, their friends usually follow with declarations of war.


I don't think Putin is scared of Article 5 because the language is weak. Not as weak as the Budapest Memorandum but it is weak. Below are some passages I posted in bold from the link below and notice that NATO members don't have to provide military assistance to those being attacked? They are obligated to help but the help may come in the form of food and bandages. Each NATO member is to determine on their own how much they want to help.


Let's say Putin invades Estonia because they helped Ukraine. Do you really believe Western nations would risk total world war over this little nation? After seeing the West's reactions to various crisis around the world, I believe the rest of the NATO members would ask Russia to talk it over at a negotiating table before risking their blood, their economies and future over little Estonia. It is certain NATO members won't immediately jump into a fight with Russia over Estonia but if they do enter into a fight, they will drag their feet before they begin a rescue mission.


Article 5 is at the basis of a fundamental principle of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. It provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. Let's hope Poland and Baltics don't accidently get into any skirmishes with Russia.


Allies can provide any form of assistance they deem necessary to respond to the situation. This assistance is not necessarily military and depends on the material resources of each country. When and if sh!t hits the fan, we will see what everyone is made of and if they got each others back. I'm sure Putin has factored in the possibility that NATO will crack if he shows enough strength and the ability inflict serious pain.


http://www.nato.int/terrorism/five.htm
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 12, 2015, 06:32:45 PM
Quote
the West will not win a war either but merely gain back the territories Russia will initially take.
Russia will NOT fight.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 12, 2015, 06:36:03 PM
We have military personnel in the Baltics.  So if the Mongolian horde comes over the border, what will US forces do?  Abstain?

Will Obama go to war for Estonia?  No.  But our troops are already there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 12, 2015, 08:12:20 PM

No, I don't believe Russia wants to fight a war against the west but war is possible because of a few reasons beyond even Putin's control. Putin may feel he would lose a world war but there's little chance he'd lose his country due to Russia's nuclear ability so we'd pause before going to Moscow


If NATO invades Russia, he has 1500 nukes.  What cities will he wipe out? 


but Putin does have a desire to hurt those who are hurting Russia and a war will disrupt lives in the West much more than it'll disrupt lives in Russia so in his estimation, the West will not win a war either but merely gain back the territories Russia will initially take.

This makes no sense . . .

Bottom line up front, the Russian President can't just shoot unarmed soldiers in the back as they charge like World War II.  I suppose he could do like Saddam in the first Iraq War and cut the Achilles heels of his conscripts to keep them from running away, but like I said, over and over and over again, YOU HAVE TO PAY THE JOES - the Russian government budget is based on oil production and the Saudis are keeping oil low in part to hurt Russia's proxies in the middle east but also to hurt Texas muther frackers.  Either way unless  Russia's proxies use nukes, we aren't going to see $ 80 oil for another 20 years maybe not in our lifetime.

When a country looses a war, like the US did in Vietnam and sort of lost in Iraq, the order that existed antebellum collapses especially in Russia, see Russo-Japanese War.  Russia had its high water mark right before the Odessans burned those people in the trade union building, since then it has been down hill.  Russia had its chance to blitzkrieg the country after Yanukovych left the country.  That train has long left the station.

I agree with Jay H's predictions that Russia will implode and see a civil war.  An invasion of the Baltics will go about as well as the Polish-Soviet War.  It will be a rout.  Reverses and a Ukrainian invasion and occupation of Moscow will provoke unrest within Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 12, 2015, 10:46:09 PM
Getting sick of the economic ruin and worthless currency already?
Good place to start will be for that midget mongoloid president of yours to kneel on broken glass to repent for his transgressions... :applause:

Um...she might be Russian by birth, but she's a US citizen, living in the USA, so you really shouldn't insult Mr Obama like that!  :o
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 12, 2015, 10:53:15 PM


#fail.

Obama is tall.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 12, 2015, 11:25:53 PM
Russia will NOT fight.


Ukraine and Eastern Europe should be relieved to hear that. They should take a chill pill knowing Russians aren't aggressive. Putin did admit to sending armed soldiers to Crimea. What was their purpose?


We have military personnel in the Baltics.  So if the Mongolian horde comes over the border, what will US forces do?  Abstain?



What did the world do when Putin sent armed troops into Georgia? Oh, I forgot, Russians don't want to fight. We do have an obligation to Baltic nations so we can't abstain totally in event of Russian invasion. Obama may send them MREs(Meals Ready to Eat). He may not be willing to risk a world war over the Baltics. He's a Nobel Peace Prize winner. He has an image to protect.


If NATO invades Russia, he has 1500 nukes.  What cities will he wipe out? 



Tactical nukes are used on approaching armies, not in cities on civilians. Small nuclear yield and does less or no damage to infrastructure.




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 13, 2015, 06:54:24 AM
Gator--the relative prosperity of recent times is exactly the reason why Russians will react to the downturn much faster than in the past--now they are losing or without something they want!

The Russian economy had improved under Putin, but the average Russian saw little of this.  Watch PBS Frontline tonight - they will broadcast a scathing one-hour report on Putin.  One fact - 110 Russians own 35% of the wealth - the most top heavy economy in the world - starting with Putin whose wealth is estimated at $40 billion.



Quote
Even if the sanctions were pulled today completely-- it would not save the Russian economies immediate fate.

Agree, supposedly the sanctions account for only 25% of the problematic economy.  Declining oil prices are the primary culprit.  Until they return to higher levels, the economy will be weak.  BTW, Putin says the price of oil will increase and the economy will recover in two years.  Frankly, I don't believe the price of oil will return to $100/bbl in the next 10 years.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 13, 2015, 08:06:38 AM


BTW LT, Russia has moved tactical nukes into Ukraine/Crimea which is the best weapon in the world for wiping out large armies. I think Putin is trying to scare NATO into backing off since actually using tactical nukes can increase the possibility of total nuclear war. Didn't you once claim Putin was crazy? I hope he isn't.


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-deploying-tactical-nuclear-arms-in-crimea/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 13, 2015, 09:03:29 AM

BTW LT, Russia has moved tactical nukes into Ukraine/Crimea which is the best weapon in the world for wiping out large armies. I think Putin is trying to scare NATO into backing off since actually using tactical nukes can increase the possibility of total nuclear war. Didn't you once claim Putin was crazy? I hope he isn't.


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-deploying-tactical-nuclear-arms-in-crimea/

I knew it.  Not surprised at all. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 13, 2015, 09:50:30 AM

BTW LT, Russia has moved tactical nukes into Ukraine/Crimea which is the best weapon in the world for wiping out large armies. I think Putin is trying to scare NATO into backing off since actually using tactical nukes can increase the possibility of total nuclear war. Didn't you once claim Putin was crazy? I hope he isn't.


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-deploying-tactical-nuclear-arms-in-crimea/

Billy,

Do you actually read this sensationalist drivel?

If one follows McKeon's letter, there is no direct evidence that tactical nuclear weapons have been forwarded to the Crimean peninsula.  Instead, they base the entire sensationalistic statement on the quote from Putin that two of the delivery systems, missiles and bombers, are being placed in Crimea.  Both delivery systems are CAPABLE of delivering tactical nukes.  Neither Putin's statements, nor any intelligence gathering community assessments have yet to place a single Nuke in Krim.

The rag you're reading is known for making such unproven statements.  McKeon purposely did not state that Russia had moved Nukes into Krim.  Just that there was no way to assess whether they were, indeed, there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 13, 2015, 10:26:32 AM
Billy,

Do you actually read this sensationalist drivel?

If one follows McKeon's letter, there is no direct evidence that tactical nuclear weapons have been forwarded to the Crimean peninsula.  Instead, they base the entire sensationalistic statement on the quote from Putin that two of the delivery systems, missiles and bombers, are being placed in Crimea.  Both delivery systems are CAPABLE of delivering tactical nukes.  Neither Putin's statements, nor any intelligence gathering community assessments have yet to place a single Nuke in Krim.

The rag you're reading is known for making such unproven statements.  McKeon purposely did not state that Russia had moved Nukes into Krim.  Just that there was no way to assess whether they were, indeed, there.

Would you be willing to bet your life savings or your life, that they are not there?  Some on this forum had been blathering on about invading Crimea and taking it back.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 13, 2015, 12:32:59 PM
Of course not. 

But to state that there are Nukes in Crimea, when there is no evidence yet, of same, is to me an alarmist position made by a right-wing nut job rag.  There is going to be NO assault on Crimea presently.

My problem is that the paper asserted something it had NO proof of, but stated it as truth. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 13, 2015, 01:20:20 PM
Of course not. 

But to state that there are Nukes in Crimea, when there is no evidence yet, of same, is to me an alarmist position made by a right-wing nut job rag.  There is going to be NO assault on Crimea presently.

My problem is that the paper asserted something it had NO proof of, but stated it as truth.

Very well, that makes sense.  Although clearly the referendum violated Ukraine's Constitution it's a moot point now and I think any talk of invading Crimea is senseless.  Crimea will likely remain part of Russia for our lifetimes.

I don't know what deals the Obama administration might be trying to make with Russia but I would not be surprised if they are offering recognition of Crimea in exchange for Russia getting out of E. Ukraine.

Like Shadow and most others I would like to see this conflict end without any further bloodshed.  There have been good points (IMO) made by Akmike, Brasscasing, BillyB, Gator and Mendeleyev and you as well.

I personally would be surprised if Putin has not already or is on an accelerated schedule to put some form of Nuclear weapons into Crimea.  It's just the sort of decisive person that he is and he doesn't care what the West thinks.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 13, 2015, 02:06:18 PM
Going down and going down!!
Let's hear from a few of those that were bragging how strong the Russian economy was and the west was wasting it's time on economic issues.
Putin is on borrowed time!!

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Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 13, 2015, 02:23:17 PM

BTW LT, Russia has moved tactical nukes into Ukraine/Crimea which is the best weapon in the world for wiping out large armies. I think Putin is trying to scare NATO into backing off since actually using tactical nukes can increase the possibility of total nuclear war. Didn't you once claim Putin was crazy? I hope he isn't.


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-deploying-tactical-nuclear-arms-in-crimea/

It doesn't matter.  We have seen this movie before.  In 1987, could any of us predict that the Russians would get creamed by a 4th rate country like Chechnya?   Time is not on Russia's side Billy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 13, 2015, 02:25:01 PM
Going down and going down!!
Let's hear from a few of those that were bragging how strong the Russian economy was and the west was wasting it's time on economic issues.
Putin is on borrowed time!!

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 :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 13, 2015, 02:30:48 PM
Going down and going down!!
Let's hear from a few of those that were bragging how strong the Russian economy was and the west was wasting it's time on economic issues.
Putin is on borrowed time!!

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This is how it ends peacefully AC
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 13, 2015, 02:33:51 PM
  Instead, they base the entire sensationalistic statement on the quote from Putin that two of the delivery systems, missiles and bombers, are being placed in Crimea.  Both delivery systems are CAPABLE of delivering tactical nukes.



It would be dumb for Russia to use nuclear capable missiles for another purpose such as deploy conventional weapons. There are cheaper options. But you are right in the sense that there is no proof there are actual nukes inside those missiles that were shipped to Crimea.



Neither Putin's statements, nor any intelligence gathering community assessments have yet to place a single Nuke in Krim.



Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov issued a statement Russia has the right to deploy nukes in Crimea. Russia once said they have the right to annex Crimea too. You may believe it was illegal for them to annex Crimea but why do you have faith that they'd play by the rules now? They feel it's their land and they can use it any way they wish. Russia is aggressive so aggressive moves don't surprise me.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 13, 2015, 02:39:53 PM
It doesn't matter.  We have seen this movie before.  In 1987, could any of us predict that the Russians would get creamed by a 4th rate country like Chechnya?   Time is not on Russia's side Billy.

Chechnya is not a country and last I checked the Russians and their proxies were firmly in control of that area.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 13, 2015, 04:25:36 PM
Chechnya is not a country and last I checked the Russians and their proxies were firmly in control of that area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994%E2%80%9395)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 13, 2015, 04:30:48 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994%E2%80%9395)

Your post above claimed that Russia got whipped in 1987.  Certainly may have been a set back but your post does not acknowledge that Russia doesn't take set backs lightly.  Chechnya is under Russian and their proxy control.  The link you just provided was for 1994-1995, so what does that have to do with your original claim?

You like to ramble around a lot but you don't make many posts which are completely factually correct.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 13, 2015, 04:42:26 PM

You like to ramble around a lot but you don't make many posts which are completely factually correct.

Given that you are in the habit of making entirely factually incorrect posts that  is a joke complaint coming from you.
You create a deliberate lies--with the intent to create mischief--  says it all about you.


 :mooning:

How can you run with your trousers around your ankles?? :puke:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 13, 2015, 04:55:47 PM
Your post above claimed that Russia got whipped in 1987.  Certainly may have been a set back but your post does not acknowledge that Russia doesn't take set backs lightly.  Chechnya is under Russian and their proxy control.  The link you just provided was for 1994-1995, so what does that have to do with your original claim?

You like to ramble around a lot but you don't make many posts which are completely factually correct.

No, I did not make up such a claim.  Stop putting words in my mouth and stop conflating issues that irrelevant for discussion.  And quite frankly, I am no longer interested in having a discussion with someone who is so liberal with his insults.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 13, 2015, 06:06:05 PM

BTW LT, Russia has moved tactical nukes into Ukraine/Crimea which is the best weapon in the world for wiping out large armies. I think Putin is trying to scare NATO into backing off since actually using tactical nukes can increase the possibility of total nuclear war. Didn't you once claim Putin was crazy? I hope he isn't.


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-deploying-tactical-nuclear-arms-in-crimea/ (http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russia-deploying-tactical-nuclear-arms-in-crimea/)
Several people here have insisted Putin is crazy, I don't believe it is true...but going by their logic, giving the guy a wider berth may not be a bad idea...there will be a different time and different place, and perhaps a different leader....For now he is the leader of the a country that can do a lot of destruction with the nukes.  Clearly he will fight perhaps to the death for Crimea and perhaps other parts of Ukraine.




Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 13, 2015, 07:18:36 PM
No, I did not make up such a claim.  Stop putting words in my mouth and stop conflating issues that irrelevant for discussion.  And quite frankly, I am no longer interested in having a discussion with someone who is so liberal with his insults.

Whipped or creamed; same thing.  Apparently you cannot remember what you posted a few minutes ago, and you think it's an insult if somebody calls you on your BS.

Chechnya is still not a country and it's still under control of the Russian Federation.  Care to post a retraction for your two mistakes in that one post alone?  Or perhaps a retraction for saying that the SU had 400 million residents during WWII?

I know, you think it's an insult if somebody points at the numerous inaccuracies in your posts.


It doesn't matter.  We have seen this movie before.  In 1987, could any of us predict that the Russians would get creamed by a 4th rate country like Chechnya?   Time is not on Russia's side Billy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 13, 2015, 07:25:03 PM
Given that you are in the habit of making entirely factually incorrect posts that  is a joke complaint coming from you.
You create a deliberate lies--with the intent to create mischief--  says it all about you.

 :rolleyes:  Was that even English?


Jay you are simply delusional.  You've now twice posted that NATO or somebody is going to invade Crimea and take it back.  Your pal LT just made a post that "Ukraine is going to march on Moscow".

Underestimating the enemy is a mortal flaw.  You clearly don't have a rational mind for this discussion, perhaps it's time to step away from the keyboard.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 13, 2015, 08:12:39 PM
:rolleyes:  Was that even English?


Jay you are simply delusional.  You've now twice posted that NATO or somebody is going to invade Crimea and take it back.  Your pal LT just made a post that "Ukraine is going to march on Moscow".

Underestimating the enemy is a mortal flaw.  You clearly don't have a rational mind for this discussion, perhaps it's time to step away from the keyboard.


You continually attempt to attribute words never said  eg "NATO or somebody is going to invade Crimea"  -- the only way to conclude I said that is to take out of context something I did say--- but -- I never used those words

Once again --another lie from you in a miserable attempt to create an incorrect conclusion-- so tell me again-- who is delusional?
"You clearly don't have a rational mind for this discussion, perhaps it's time to step away from the keyboard"
Your words--you need to take your own advice-have a look at your constant trolling of my posts-- and the persistent lies you seek to promote.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 13, 2015, 08:36:19 PM

You continually attempt to attribute words never said  eg "NATO or somebody is going to invade Crimea"  -- the only way to conclude I said that is to take out of context something I did say--- but -- I never used those words

Once again --another lie from you in a miserable attempt to create an incorrect conclusion-- so tell me again-- who is delusional?
"You clearly don't have a rational mind for this discussion, perhaps it's time to step away from the keyboard"
Your words--you need to take your own advice-have a look at your constant trolling of my posts-- and the persistent lies you seek to promote.

Jay here is the post where you want a war with Ukraine "escalated".  The only person here telling lies is you Jay.


BB--maybe you missed what I have been saying---in the event of a Russian setback--it is more likely than not that Putin will escalate rather than going into his shell.
Depending on the degree of escalation--chances are Ukraine will get help from the "west".

What you are disputing is the capability of the west to handle Russia in a military sense--to which my response is -- that escalation will not only lead to the removal of Russia from the mainland Ukraine-but eventually out of Crimea .

See where you wrote that "Ukraine will get help from the "west". (?)  Who is the west Jay?????

The "west" is NATO.  Care to apologize to me and the forum for being so dishonest about what you wrote?????

Any sane person knows that if the "west" gets involved on Ukrainian soil, it will be the start of WWIII.

Is your life so boring that you want to start WWIII Jay?  Stop telling lies about what you posted.   :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 13, 2015, 08:53:06 PM
AC--like I said--not only are your comprehension skills lacking-- your dishonest attempts to make a case equals lying-- you keep doing it.

Take your own advice .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 02:58:29 AM
AC--like I said--not only are your comprehension skills lacking-- your dishonest attempts to make a case equals lying-- you keep doing it.

Take your own advice .

Agree.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 14, 2015, 08:17:09 AM
Several people here have insisted Putin is crazy, I don't believe it is true...but going by their logic, giving the guy a wider berth may not be a bad idea...there will be a different time and different place, and perhaps a different leader....For now he is the leader of the a country that can do a lot of destruction with the nukes.  Clearly he will fight perhaps to the death for Crimea and perhaps other parts of Ukraine.




Fathertime!


Did you watch the Frontline piece last night?


He may not be crazy, but right now he is starting to feel cornered.


I believe the conclusion of that report was that Puter knows what will happen to him if he is deposed and he will do everything in power to keep his throne, even destroying the country in a nuclear war.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 14, 2015, 08:19:05 AM
Girls, please!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 08:54:43 AM
. . .  even destroying the country in a nuclear war.

There was a time on this forum when such talk held low regard . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 09:43:07 AM

Did you watch the Frontline piece last night?


He may not be crazy, but right now he is starting to feel cornered.


I believe the conclusion of that report was that Puter knows what will happen to him if he is deposed and he will do everything in power to keep his throne, even destroying the country in a nuclear war.
I did watch the 1st 20 minutes or so. 

And yes I agree about him potentially being cornered and have felt that this was how this could play out if we took too hard a line.  Although the viewpoint remains relatively unpopular here, I continue to hold that we have to let Russia off the hook in Ukraine.  Russia will go to the fire over this if they have to.  If we force their hand, all means necessary are on the table...I don't see Putin allowing himself to be impaled with a bayonet in the ass like ghadafy.   

A balance must be struck and we may not like or approve of it, but I feel it is the best way out for the world.  Russia is still going to wind up paying but just not as much as some hawks are proposing.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 14, 2015, 09:57:02 AM
AC--like I said--not only are your comprehension skills lacking-- your dishonest attempts to make a case equals lying-- you keep doing it.

Take your own advice .

Here's another of your quotes.  More crazy talk from armchair General Jay.  The guy with no family in Ukraine, who doesn't speak Ukrainian or Russian, wants Ukraine to go to war with Russia, up to and including Nuclear war.

This same guy who doesn't think that Americans should be able to defend their homes and properties with firearms, wants a war which will escalate up to Nuclear level. 

Who is going to fight this war Jay?  You with some video game controls from your armchair over there in Oz?  Stop the crazy talk; and stop denying it after you say it.  Leave this situation to the Ukrainians and to the professionals. 


To answer the question you allude to-- the Russians can and would be defeated in an escalated war-- including removing them from Sevastopol and the Crimea.That answer applies to a nuclear war or a more localised restricted war.  Putin is bluffing-- and I would call his bluff--at any level. The only thing that a bully will respond to is self preservation-- and that is the issue that needs driving into Russian heads is that they are are going to lose here--one way or another.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 10:09:28 AM
I did watch the 1st 20 minutes or so. 

couldn't finish it, eh?

I continue to hold that we have to let Russia off the hook in Ukraine.   . . . .
Fathertime!

Is there anything else left to say?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 14, 2015, 10:20:44 AM
It's a damn good thing that he's not God,or in charge,nor even listened to!  :cluebat:
 
I wonder if he'd be as nonchalant about an invasion of Columbia where his wife's family and friends are at? :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 10:28:30 AM
It's a damn good thing that he's not God,or in charge,nor even listened to!  :cluebat:

There's enough compassion there to fill a thimble. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 14, 2015, 10:34:52 AM
It's a damn good thing that he's not God,or in charge,nor even listened to!  :cluebat:
 
I wonder if he'd be as nonchalant about an invasion of Columbia where his wife's family and friends are at? :crackwhip:

It seems that some have no concern for Ukrainian sovereignty and lives like fathertime and others are too eager to go from defending remaining territory to the foolish idea of invading Crimea.

Thankfully President Poroshenko is a pragmatic and wise man and he wants Ukraine to survive in present form.

Should Russia someday want to relinquish Crimea for economic reasons then I'm sure he will negotiate that, however he is not stooping to the level of Russians and causing more loss of life -- his actions are defensive in nature right now to buy Ukraine time to get their military and economy up to par.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 10:57:21 AM
It's a damn good thing that he's not God,or in charge,nor even listened to!  :cluebat:
 
I wonder if he'd be as nonchalant about an invasion of Columbia where his wife's family and friends are at? :crackwhip:
I never claimed to be in charge of anything. ..I'm only one of many voices. 

I believe we have a better chance of the more correct decisions being made by those that don't get too emotional about it (like you).  This conflict can easily go way beyond Ukraine...and that type of wider war can endanger all of us...so it must be asked 'is it really worth it?

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 14, 2015, 11:06:13 AM
I never claimed to be in charge of anything. ..I'm only one of many voices. 

I believe we have a better chance of the more correct decisions being made by those that don't get too emotional about it (like you).  This conflict can easily go way beyond Ukraine...and that type of wider war can endanger all of us...so it must be asked 'is it really worth it?

Fathertime!
You are asking the wrong question.  The question you should ask is, "Should aggression against a sovereign nation be rewarded in the interests of 'peace'?" 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 11:13:11 AM
You are asking the wrong question.  The question you should ask is, "Should aggression against a sovereign nation be rewarded in the interests of 'peace'?"
You can ask it that way...and still it has to be determined on a case by case basis...in addition I'm not seeing great rewards for Russia at this point...as Obama and company are striking a decent balance. .imo

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 14, 2015, 11:21:31 AM
You can ask it that way...and still it has to be determined on a case by case basis...in addition I'm not seeing great rewards for Russia at this point...as Obama and company are striking a decent balance. .imo

Fathertime!
So some nations invading others should be rewarded, and others not?  That is basically what you are proposing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 11:58:14 AM
So some nations invading others should be rewarded, and others not?  That is basically what you are proposing.
No.  I think you are boiling it down incorrectly.  I don't see Russia receiving rewards from the world.  In addition, the entire context should be considered as well as what actions are likely to exacerbate the situation.

I also think a reality remains that we have to be smart about picking our battles, especially against Russia as the potential consequences can be cataclysmic.
Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 14, 2015, 12:01:53 PM
No.  I think you are boiling it down incorrectly.  I don't see Russia receiving rewards from the world.  In addition, the entire context should be considered as well as what actions are likely to exacerbate the situation.

I also think a reality remains that we have to be smart about picking our battles, especially against Russia as the potential consequences can be cataclysmic.
Fathertime!
How are they not rewarded if they invaded their neighbour, continue to arm its "separatists" (many of whom are Russian citizens), stoke war in a peaceful neighbour that was not threatening Russia, and you suggest appeasement and ceding of territory with no consequences?  Why not cede all of captured Syria and Iraq to ISIS?  Who cares if they are beheading anyone who disagrees with them?  It boils down to the same argument, from my vantage point.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 14, 2015, 12:10:08 PM

I believe the conclusion of that report was that Puter knows what will happen to him if he is deposed and he will do everything in power to keep his throne, even destroying the country in a nuclear war.

I have always contended that Putin can not step down until he finds a successor to protect him much the same way that Putin protected Yeltsin.  And that may not be possible, so he may die in office as did Stalin.  Congratulations Russia - you have Putin for life!   Meanwhile you are pissing away a treasure in natural resources. 

Nuclear war!!!!!   More than Putin's hands are needed to fire a nuke.  If justice starts closing on Putin, hopefully the spirit of Vasili Arkhipov is at the other end from Putin. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 12:13:34 PM
He answered yes Boethius.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 12:24:23 PM
How are they not rewarded if they invaded their neighbour, continue to arm its "separatists" (many of whom are Russian citizens), stoke war in a peaceful neighbour that was not threatening Russia, and you suggest appeasement and ceding of territory with no consequences?  Why not cede all of captured Syria and Iraq to ISIS?  Who cares if they are beheading anyone who disagrees with them?  It boils down to the same argument, from my vantage point.
Aren't there currently consequences for Russia?   Is there something more you feel we (western nations) should be doing?

As I mentioned earlier...it is a case by case basis...it our nation can intervene and make it less wrong, without a burdensome consequence to us then maybe we do something...in the case of Ukraine it appears to me we will likely only make things worse for them and for us...and perhaps around the planet, in the case of wider war.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 14, 2015, 02:17:04 PM
Here's another of your quotes.  More crazy talk from armchair General Jay.  The guy with no family in Ukraine, who doesn't speak Ukrainian or Russian, wants Ukraine to go to war with Russia, up to and including Nuclear war.

This same guy who doesn't think that Americans should be able to defend their homes and properties with firearms, wants a war which will escalate up to Nuclear level. 

Who is going to fight this war Jay?  You with some video game controls from your armchair over there in Oz?  Stop the crazy talk; and stop denying it after you say it.  Leave this situation to the Ukrainians and to the professionals.
Like I said--you are incapable of comprehension--  you are attempting to connect dots that do not equal the conclusion you attempt to make-there is a vast difference from answering a theoretical question with a theoretical answer--try reading it in context and see of that helps you.
You have repeatedly created lies about me personally-- and again here--you know zero of my situation-- so any comment like that is clearly a lie-- again.
Surely the quick draw McGraw mods around here can see that is inappropriate--and that is before I mention this guys trolling.
I dislike intently threads being hijacked by this type of personal attack--the thread becomes about the participants-not the topic--this guy has persisted to attempt to attribute words and conclusions not accurately portraying what I said-- and worse-- making comments on personal life that are mostly not even close---repeating mistaken comments by others as if fact--AC--it shows there is something wrong in your head.
Take your own advice--give it a rest-- you are really a very petty little person.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 14, 2015, 02:55:07 PM
I did watch the 1st 20 minutes or so. 

And yes I agree about him potentially being cornered and have felt that this was how this could play out if we took too hard a line.  Although the viewpoint remains relatively unpopular here, I continue to hold that we have to let Russia off the hook in Ukraine.  Russia will go to the fire over this if they have to.  If we force their hand, all means necessary are on the table...I don't see Putin allowing himself to be impaled with a bayonet in the ass like ghadafy.   

A balance must be struck and we may not like or approve of it, but I feel it is the best way out for the world.  Russia is still going to wind up paying but just not as much as some hawks are proposing.

Fathertime!


Point is there is not much the US can do in forgiving the Ukraine invasion. As a matter of fact, that would be a first for any US President to do such. But, what the hell we are talking about Obama and he is, you know, different.


I have to be careful as I have been pointed out that I am being a racist. LMFAO A racist. That's good.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 14, 2015, 03:07:02 PM
Aren't there currently consequences for Russia?   Is there something more you feel we (western nations) should be doing?

As I mentioned earlier...it is a case by case basis...it our nation can intervene and make it less wrong, without a burdensome consequence to us then maybe we do something...in the case of Ukraine it appears to me we will likely only make things worse for them and for us...and perhaps around the planet, in the case of wider war.

Fathertime!


It is obvious you are not learning from your history.


More than 70 years ago there was a corporal who found a scapegoat and his people embraced him as their savior. They prospered under this guy but he was not satisfied. He wanted more. After the Anschluss a world leader went to the corporal and appeased him hoping to obtain Peace For Our Time. A year later there was a World War.


A real burdensome consequence.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on January 14, 2015, 03:24:39 PM
exactly right, Muzh.

There was a recent economic summit. I don't know much about this bank CEO, but his remarks are insightful.
'...Sberbank CEO German Gref "Clearly we have a problem with the investment climate.""It is becoming clear for everyone today — as long as these reforms (of judicial and law enforcement bodies) are not carried out, pressure on business is not lowered, transparency in ownership rights and the work of the whole law-enforcement system is not increased, there can be no talk of improving the investment climate."
I've been saying this:Putin and Russia's actions in Ukraine are damaging Russia- investors are afraid to invest there because of judicial corruption. If the government doesn't like you, they take severe action, throw you in jail for trumped-up charges, or invade your country, or shut off their gas, or whatever. Ukrainians got rid of Yanukovych. We're seeing Russia's response. Who can trust Russians? The investment climate might be better in Cuba.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 14, 2015, 03:30:47 PM
Looks like the midget plans to dip into the Reserve Fund in a futile attempt to prop up the rubble.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-14/russia-to-convert-currency-from-wealth-fund-to-arrest-ruble-drop.html

We can resume doing this  :ROFL: after the midget p*ssed away billions more of hard currency while the rubble continued to nosedive.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on January 14, 2015, 03:33:45 PM
I need more coffee. I forgot the link:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/highlights-of-gaidar-russian-finance-minister-discusses-oil-reserve-fund-and-ruble/514331.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 14, 2015, 04:08:58 PM
REPORT
Plunging Oil Prices
Cheaper crude is hammering Russia

The days of $100-a-barrel oil are gone forever. Many analysts believe that oil prices between $30 and $40 per barrel are a real possibility. That level was last seen during the darkest days of the 2008 global financial crisis; now oil traders are placing bets on oil sinking as low as $20 a barrel.

Russia’s economic woes are getting worse too, with the ruble hitting one-month lows on Tuesday. Russian bond yields are at Venezuelan levels, and ratings agencies have also downgraded Russian debt. Default risk is soaring, making Russian debt some of the riskiest in the world. All that will translate into economic contraction this year, creating the very real risk that Russian President Vladimir Putin again looks for foreign adventures as a distraction.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/13/the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-plunging-oil-prices/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Flashpoints&utm_campaign=2014_FlashPoints%20%5BManual%5DRS1%2F13
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 14, 2015, 04:12:29 PM
Looks like the midget plans to dip into the Reserve Fund in a futile attempt to prop up the rubble.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-14/russia-to-convert-currency-from-wealth-fund-to-arrest-ruble-drop.html

We can resume doing this  :ROFL: after the midget p*ssed away billions more of hard currency while the rubble continued to nosedive.

Here  is a chance for currency speculators to make a $ or 2 !!
Rubble will rise as they tip this into the market ( I hope they tip the lot in !!) and proceed to bigger than ever crash on the other side!! :) :welcome:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 04:22:28 PM
4.08 grivna to 1 Ruble.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 04:39:03 PM
REPORT
Plunging Oil Prices
Cheaper crude is hammering Russia

The days of $100-a-barrel oil are gone forever. Many analysts believe that oil prices between $30 and $40 per barrel are a real possibility. That level was last seen during the darkest days of the 2008 global financial crisis; now oil traders are placing bets on oil sinking as low as $20 a barrel.

 


That 20 dollars a barrel seems like a wet dream for you JayH...today oil is up 6% to over 48 dollars a barrel, so it would take more than another 50% drop from a low point to get down to 20 a barrel...


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 04:48:02 PM

It is obvious you are not learning from your history.


More than 70 years ago there was a corporal who found a scapegoat and his people embraced him as their savior. They prospered under this guy but he was not satisfied. He wanted more. After the Anschluss a world leader went to the corporal and appeased him hoping to obtain Peace For Our Time. A year later there was a World War.


A real burdensome consequence.


I have read and watched a lot on the subject of Chamberlain.   I don't think this is going to play out the same though. There are different dynamics at play, and the weapons are so more powerful today...Russia had it's chance to blitzkrieg Ukraine if they REALLY wanted to, but they didn't....I see this as a defensive play by Russia more than anything else...but of course I get the concern of yours and others.....One fact remains, if down the line, Russia made unprovoked plays for other nations in Europe, there will be trouble...but they are likely to get away with this in Ukraine...of course they are paying in many ways but hopefully it doesn't turn into a full scale world war.






Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 14, 2015, 05:10:19 PM
4.08 grivna to 1 Ruble.

Rubbish - it's the other way around.  :cluebat:  And now it's 4.10 (and 64.69 RUB to the USD).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 14, 2015, 05:16:52 PM

I have read and watched a lot on the subject of Chamberlain.   I don't think this is going to play out the same though. There are different dynamics at play, and the weapons are so more powerful today...Russia had it's chance to blitzkrieg Ukraine if they REALLY wanted to, but they didn't....I see this as a defensive play by Russia more than anything else...but of course I get the concern of yours and others.....One fact remains, if down the line, Russia made unprovoked plays for other nations in Europe, there will be trouble...but they are likely to get away with this in Ukraine...of course they are paying in many ways but hopefully it doesn't turn into a full scale world war.


Fathertime!


Remember that the weapons issue are very similar. At that time, Britain and France thought (erroneously) that Germany had this powerful military capability. They knew they could match Germany's power (again erroneously) and wanted to avoid an attrition war all over again. Had they thrown the gauntlet down, it would have been a different story as Germany was no match for a war at that time. Who knows, maybe the Wehrmacht generals would have Putsch Hitler into oblivion.


Know what I mean, Verne?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on January 14, 2015, 06:13:07 PM
Putin and his generals know there would be a huge fight, if rebels try to push further, in a large offensive, in a blatant way. I would guess that Russia/rebels will try to slowly expand, a few feet at a time, with a frozen conflict. As time goes on this will cost Russia. It might be easier for the world to fund the Ukrainian side, while Russia has a more difficult time during their depression.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 14, 2015, 06:50:56 PM

Remember that the weapons issue are very similar. At that time, Britain and France thought (erroneously) that Germany had this powerful military capability. They knew they could match Germany's power (again erroneously) and wanted to avoid an attrition war all over again. Had they thrown the gauntlet down, it would have been a different story as Germany was no match for a war at that time. Who knows, maybe the Wehrmacht generals would have Putsch Hitler into oblivion.

Coincidently, what happened in 1936 in the Rhineland is being closely paralleled today in Crimea/Ukraine.

Excerpt from a somewhat simplified version of events but still gets the point across...

..."In March 1936, Hitler took what for him was a huge gamble - he ordered that his troops should openly re-enter the Rhineland thus breaking the terms of  Versailles once again. He did order his generals that the military should retreat out of the Rhineland if the French showed the slightest hint of making a military stand against him. This did not occur. Over 32,000 soldiers and armed policemen crossed into the Rhineland

Why didn’t the Allies (Britain and France) do anything about this violation of the Versailles Treaty ?

 France was going through an internal political crisis at the time and there was no political leadership to concentrate against Nazi Germany. Britain generally supported the view that Nazi Germany was only going into her own "backyard" and that this section of  Versailles was not needed to be enforced in the mid-1930’s. It was believed that Germany was behaving in a reasonable and understandable manner.

Therefore, no action was taken against Nazi Germany, despite  Hitler’s later comment that the march into the Rhineland had been the most nerve-racking 48 hours of his life.

 "If France had then marched into the Rhineland, we would have had to withdraw with our tails between our legs." - Hitler

Hitler learned from this episode that he could all but gamble on France not doing anything. The Rhineland affected the French in that a demilitarised Rhineland was created at  Versailles to act as a barrier for the French if the Germans ever got war-like again. It appeared that in 1936 that France was not even willing to fight for this. Therefore,  Hitler concluded that it he turned his attentions to the east of Europe, France would be even less willing to involve herself. From the British point of view, Hitler  concluded that there was room for movement with regards to  Versailles as the media, in some areas, had made it clear that they believed that some of the terms of  Versailles were not appropriate for the 1930’s."...

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Rhineland_1936.htm

How's that for history repeating itself.

Historians have debated whether or not a retreat from the Rhineland would have cost Hitler the Chancellery in 1936 even as he was assuming/consolidating absolute power possibly avoiding WW2 altogether.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 07:54:41 PM

Russia had it's chance to blitzkrieg Ukraine if they REALLY wanted to, but they didn't....

We agree!  Win Win!


if down the line, Russia made unprovoked plays for other nations in Europe, there will be trouble...but they are likely to get away with this in Ukraine...of course they are paying in many ways but hopefully it doesn't turn into a full scale world war.






Fathertime!

Please explain . . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 07:58:03 PM
Rubbish - it's the other way around.  :cluebat:  And now it's 4.10 (and 64.69 RUB to the USD).

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=UAH&to=RUB&view=10Y
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 08:01:45 PM
Coincidently, what happened in 1936 in the Rhineland is being closely paralleled today in Crimea/Ukraine.

Excerpt from a somewhat simplified version of events but still gets the point across...

..."In March 1936, Hitler took what for him was a huge gamble - he ordered that his troops should openly re-enter the Rhineland thus breaking the terms of  Versailles once again. He did order his generals that the military should retreat out of the Rhineland if the French showed the slightest hint of making a military stand against him. This did not occur. Over 32,000 soldiers and armed policemen crossed into the Rhineland

Why didn’t the Allies (Britain and France) do anything about this violation of the Versailles Treaty ?

 France was going through an internal political crisis at the time and there was no political leadership to concentrate against Nazi Germany. Britain generally supported the view that Nazi Germany was only going into her own "backyard" and that this section of  Versailles was not needed to be enforced in the mid-1930’s. It was believed that Germany was behaving in a reasonable and understandable manner.

Therefore, no action was taken against Nazi Germany, despite  Hitler’s later comment that the march into the Rhineland had been the most nerve-racking 48 hours of his life.

 "If France had then marched into the Rhineland, we would have had to withdraw with our tails between our legs." - Hitler

Hitler learned from this episode that he could all but gamble on France not doing anything. The Rhineland affected the French in that a demilitarised Rhineland was created at  Versailles to act as a barrier for the French if the Germans ever got war-like again. It appeared that in 1936 that France was not even willing to fight for this. Therefore,  Hitler concluded that it he turned his attentions to the east of Europe, France would be even less willing to involve herself. From the British point of view, Hitler  concluded that there was room for movement with regards to  Versailles as the media, in some areas, had made it clear that they believed that some of the terms of  Versailles were not appropriate for the 1930’s."...

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Rhineland_1936.htm

How's that for history repeating itself.

Historians have debated whether or not a retreat from the Rhineland would have cost Hitler the Chancellery in 1936 even as he was assuming/consolidating absolute power possibly avoiding WW2 altogether.

Brass

France unlike the West suffered catastrophic loss of life 20 years ago.  The West 20 years ago just partied like it was 1999
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 08:56:09 PM
We agree!  Win Win!


Please explain . . . .


While you continue to play 'the fool' you can expect no substantive responses from me.  :D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 09:09:25 PM

Remember that the weapons issue are very similar. At that time, Britain and France thought (erroneously) that Germany had this powerful military capability. They knew they could match Germany's power (again erroneously) and wanted to avoid an attrition war all over again. Had they thrown the gauntlet down, it would have been a different story as Germany was no match for a war at that time. Who knows, maybe the Wehrmacht generals would have Putsch Hitler into oblivion.


Know what I mean, Verne?
You bring up a good point, so one question is are we overestimating Russia's strength?  Would Russia have backed down like Hitler says he would have?  Well that ship may have already sailed at this point anyway.  It seems to me that Russia is paying a price for what they have done.  Did Germany pay anything like this after they snagged the Rhineland?  Russia may wind up with parts of Ukraine but does that really make them a stronger nation, given all that seems to be happening?  My primary concern is us *the USA*, and how all of this is going to effect us.  I don't see Russia's actions as something that "The Average American" needs to be TOO worried about.  There really isn't very much farther they can go without having to go into real battle.  Fortifying the parts of Ukraine that are unaffected is what I could get on board with, and basically let the other parts do whatever they are going to do.... both sides get something and we move on...yes I know it smells like appeasement...and I have yet to see a better option.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 14, 2015, 09:13:10 PM
substantive responses from me. 

 :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on January 14, 2015, 09:32:42 PM
4.08 grivna to 1 Ruble.

You are reading the chart backwards.

http://www.google.com/search?q=uah+to+rubles&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

1 UAH will get you 4.06 rubles.

Note that 1 USD will get you 15.82 UAH

while 1 USD will get you 64.28 Rubles.

Think of these two, and you will readily understand the relationship that exists between UAH and Ruble.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2015, 09:35:57 PM
:popcorn:


Watch it old boy...By the looks of you, you may have O.D'ed on popcorn already!  ;D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 05:21:30 AM
You are reading the chart backwards.

http://www.google.com/search?q=uah+to+rubles&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

1 UAH will get you 4.06 rubles.

Note that 1 USD will get you 15.82 UAH

while 1 USD will get you 64.28 Rubles.

Think of these two, and you will readily understand the relationship that exists between UAH and Ruble.

Thx
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 15, 2015, 05:48:10 AM
Just think of a ruble as about 1 1/2 cents.. Then consider that they even bother to still make kopecks too. lmao
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 15, 2015, 06:19:10 AM
Wow! If you put it that way then the ruble is really worthless.

I would imagine if I was to drop a 100 ruble note I wouldn't even bother bending down to pick it up.
 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 15, 2015, 06:22:11 AM
Just think of a ruble as about 1 1/2 cents.. Then consider that they even bother to still make kopecks too. lmao
Why? It is Russia's national currency. Doesn't matter how it is related to dollar in terms of making kopecks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 15, 2015, 08:10:00 AM
 Because the ruble isn't worth the cheap paper it's printed on!


What a 'Junk' Rating Would Mean for Russia
By Howard Amos
Jan. 14 2015 20:28
Last edited 20:29


Russian officials and experts warned Wednesday that an expected decision by Standard and Poor's to deprive Russia of its investment-grade credit rating could cost the country up to $30 billion and drain more money from an economy that is already entering recession.

Major credit rating agencies Fitch and Standard and Poor's currently rank Russia one notch above junk.

Standard and Poor's placed Russia on negative credit watch last month and said the country's status would be re-evaluated in mid-January.

A downgrade to junk would mark Russia's return to the investment grade it held until 2004 and could trigger a sell-off by conservative investment funds barred from buying sub-investment grade securities. Analysts also warned the move could spook equity and bond traders.

"It's not worth underestimating the indirect effects on the market," said Konstantin Artyomov, a money manger at Raiffeisen Capital in Moscow, in written comments Wednesday.

$30 Billion of Consequences

If Standard and Poor's withdraw Russia's investment-grade credit rating it could activate clauses in debt agreements causing Russia's repayment deadlines to be brought forward, according to Economic Development Minister Alexei Ulyukayev.

"If Standard and Poor's make a move then there will be material consequences," Ulyukayev told Russian radio station Business FM on Wednesday.

"We can't say exactly what sum, intuitively it's about $20 billion to $30 billion."

Fleeing Money

As investment funds are often governed by rules stipulating they cannot buy into countries without an investment grade, junk status for Russia would lead to investor flight.

"A mass exit of investors from Russian assets is possible," Anna Nesterova, the head of investment company Capital Center, wrote in a commentary for the Russian news agency TASS on Tuesday.

Such an exodus would mean Russian firms, already squeezed by Western sanctions over the Ukraine crisis that restrict access to EU and U.S. capital markets, would need to look for new sources of finance.

Setting a Precedent

While Standard and Poor's said last month that there was a 50 percent chance of Russia's sovereign rating being downgraded to junk within 90 days, other rating agencies have been more cautious.

Fitch downgraded Russia to one notch above junk last week with a negative outlook, meaning a further downgrade is likely. Rating agency Moody's lists Russia two notches above junk.

If two or more rating agencies give Russia junk status then it will trigger the exit of more investment funds and intensify the outflow of capital, according to Dmitry Dudkin, head of fixed income research at UralSib Capital.

"The cheaper oil is, the greater the chance of such a scenario," said Dudkin by telephone. Crude oil has fallen over 60 percent since June highs of $115 a barrel.

Inevitable?

Russian markets, already hit hard by Western sanctions and an approaching recession, have priced in the consequences of further rating downgrades, according to some analysts. But few expect they can be avoided.

"A Standard and Poor's decision to lower Russia's rating is unavoidable given the oil price and difficult situation facing the Russian budget," said Raiffeisen Capital's Artyomov.

Even Ulyukayev was not optimistic when asked Wednesday about the likelihood of a Standard and Poor's downgrade. "The chance is quite high," he said, according to TASS.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/514387.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 15, 2015, 09:33:13 AM
Because the ruble isn't worth the cheap paper it's printed on!


 
 
 
Any country has to have a national currency so it is worth printing.
Rubles will always be there, so will kopeks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 15, 2015, 10:04:12 AM
It is my belief that investors and Bond Traders are already operating as if the Ruble had junk bond status.  Right now the only prudent move, because Russia has not successfully moved to resolve its fiscal crisis, is to dump Rubles.  Which everyone is doing. 

To back up the Ruble, the only thing that the government can do is buy Rubles so the national currency does not wind up in free fall again.

Investors have speculated that the any equity reserves the government claims to have (the 400 billion remaining) is not really there, or is only partially there.  Russia has been unable to prove it has these reserves to the satisfaction of those who would invest in reversing the Ruble's decline.

Russia is evolving into a pariah state with a currency that is insolvent to anyone but Russians.  Even the Eurasian states surrounding Russian now will only accept transactions in Dollars.  Essentially they are saying:  "Your money is no longer good here."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 15, 2015, 11:09:51 AM
Any country has to have a national currency so it is worth printing.
Rubles will always be there, so will kopeks.

Then consider the old retired babushka on a fixed income of say... 2000 rubles.

With the ruble failing and Russia's S&P rating being devalued to junk bond status not to mention a serious chance of a full fledged depression. Just think of the junk status of another 3rd world nation, Zimbabwe and their dollar.

 A wheelbarrow full is good for 2 loaves of bread. A 100 trillion note is issued instead of driving a truck full around.

 Russia has this waiting in the wings if they keep it up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 15, 2015, 11:13:00 AM
Then consider the old retired babushka on a fixed income of say... 2000 rubles.

With the ruble failing and Russia's S&P rating being devalued to junk bond status not to mention a serious chance of a full fledged depression. Just think of the junk status of another 3rd world nation, Zimbabwe and their dollar.

 A wheelbarrow full is good for 2 loaves of bread. A 100 trillion note is issued instead of driving a truck full around.

 Russia has this waiting in the wings if they keep it up.

Germany had the same thing at the end of WWI.  Workers would get a wheelbarrow full of marks and run to the baker and the butcher hoping to get some food before their money lost further value.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 15, 2015, 11:23:02 AM
Germany had the same thing at the end of WWI. Workers would get a wheelbarrow full of marks and run to the baker and the butcher hoping to get some food before their money lost further value.


That's provided that the butcher and baker had anything to sell.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 15, 2015, 12:02:07 PM
AK, first of all the prices in Russia are NOT rising proportionally to dollar/ruble rate.
Next, like I wrote many times, we had this situation back in 90s and survived.
Russians are survivors, it is on their blood.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 15, 2015, 12:23:06 PM
It'll take years to achieve this level again if ever. The world won't forget that Russian is a state sponsor of terrorism.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 12:31:48 PM
Russians are survivors, it is on their blood.

Except for those survivors in compartment 9 of K-141
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 15, 2015, 01:04:31 PM
You bring up a good point, so one question is are we overestimating Russia's strength? 




Yes


http://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/russian-naval-capabilities-and-procurement-plans/


Would Russia have backed down like Hitler says he would have?  Well that ship may have already sailed at this point anyway.




Right.


It seems to me that Russia is paying a price for what they have done.  Did Germany pay anything like this after they snagged the Rhineland?  Russia may wind up with parts of Ukraine but does that really make them a stronger nation, given all that seems to be happening?  My primary concern is us *the USA*, and how all of this is going to effect us.




Again, because Obama's strategy of not attacking Russia, like some unthinkers here blast him for not doing and also for being, er, different, and allowing the EU to take the lead so far has resulted in a "non-hostile" situation. Still, the Russians are blaming the US for its DIRECT involvement (and some EU fascists) in Ukraine. Now, imagine if the US would have gotten involved. WWIII


I don't see Russia's actions as something that "The Average American" needs to be TOO worried about.  There really isn't very much farther they can go without having to go into real battle.  Fortifying the parts of Ukraine that are unaffected is what I could get on board with, and basically let the other parts do whatever they are going to do.... both sides get something and we move on...yes I know it smells like appeasement...and I have yet to see a better option.


Fathertime!   


That's exactly what the majority of Americans said in 1939.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 15, 2015, 01:06:54 PM
Why? It is Russia's national currency. Doesn't matter how it is related to dollar in terms of making kopecks.


Why don't the Russians trade oil in their national currency?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 15, 2015, 01:10:22 PM
AK, first of all the prices in Russia are NOT rising proportionally to dollar/ruble rate.
Next, like I wrote many times, we had this situation back in 90s and survived.
Russians are survivors, it is on their blood.


You know Doll, that is very easy for you to say from the comfort of your American household.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 15, 2015, 05:00:37 PM
Everyone ready for the newest face of "patriotism" in Russia?

 Read on...

Patriotic group formed to defend Russia against pro-democracy protesters

..."Anti-Maidan pledges to fight any attempts to bring Russians to streets to protest against government

Alexander Zaldostanov, leader of biker gang the Night Wolves, was joined at the launch of anti-Maidan by Russian nationalist politicians. Photograph: Genya Savilov/AFP/Getty Images

A new group of “patriots” have vowed to defend Russia against pro-democracy protesters who “threaten its constitution”, using violent means if necessary. The group, which calls itself anti-Maidan, said on Thursday it would fight any attempts to bring Russians on to the streets to protest against the government. Its name is a reference to the Maidan protests in Kiev last year that eventually led to the toppling of former Ukraine president Viktor Yanukovych.

“All street movements and colour revolutions lead to blood. Women, children and old people suffer first,” said Dmitry Sablin, previously a long-standing MP from President Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party, who recently became a senator in Russia’s upper house of parliament.

“It is not acceptable for the minority to force its will upon the majority, as happened in Ukraine,” he added. “Under the slogan of fighting for democracy there is instead total fear, total propaganda, and no freedom.”

Sablin was joined at the launch of anti-Maidan by Russian nationalist politicians, a female ultimate-fighting champion and “The Surgeon”, leader of a biker gang known as the Night Wolves. The group said it would open up membership to anyone who was interested in joining.

“Decisions should be made in Moscow and not in Washington or Brussels,” said Nikolai Starikov, a nationalist writer and marginal politician. All the group insisted that the west had used pro-democracy activists to conquer Ukraine, both during the 2004 Orange Revolution and in last year’s Maidan protests, and was now looking to Russia.

“The ‘orange beast’ is sharpening its teeth and looking to Russia,” said The Surgeon, whose real name is Alexander Zaldostanov. He suggested an alternate name for the anti-Maidan group could be “Death to faggots”, without explaining why.

Zaldostanov has been given awards by the Kremlin for his patriotic work and has frequently been pictured with Putin. A biker show put on by the Night Wolves in Crimea after the peninsula was annexed last year portrayed Ukrainians as fascists and was shown on Russian state television.

The anti-Maidan group claims it has no funding from any official or other sources, and is purely an “initiative group” formed by like-minded citizens. It said that in future any “small costs” incurred would probably be covered by donations, and stressed it was acting independently of the state. However, the fact it held a press conference at a state news agency and was filmed by Russian state television suggests at the least implicit backing from authorities.

There was a vagueness about what activities the anti-Maidan activists would engage in, but they said they would begin on Thursday evening at a protest in support of opposition politician Alexei Navalny. The anti-corruption blogger and fierce Putin critic was given a suspended jail sentence late last year in a case widely believed to be political. His brother was jailed for three-and-a-half years. The anti-Maidan group said it would attempt to stop Navalny’s supporters from “behaving badly” at their protests.

“Personally I am a fan of the civilised, democratic intelligent way of deciding conflicts, but if we need to take up weapons then of course I will be ready,” said Yulia Bereznikova, the ultimate fighting champion.

Sablin said there was no great risk of a “coloured revolution” in Russia for now, but that it was important to act quickly to avoid the risk growing.

“Maidan in Kiev did not appear just like that. Everyone was paid, everyone was paid to be there, was paid for every stone that was thrown, for every bottle thrown,” said Sablin, echoing a frequently repeated Russian claim, for which there is no evidence. “We need to strangle all these all at the start.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/15/group-anti-maidan-defend-russia-pro-democracy-protesters

Putin's politicians screaming for women and children's blood and bike gangs ready to enforce it.

The mighty Russians at their finest. Very impressive. :rolleyes:

Brass

 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 15, 2015, 05:21:52 PM
Heh, it seems that all the hustlers and charlatans are coming out of the woodwork.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 15, 2015, 05:23:59 PM
Brass--perhaps it should be in this thread-

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17626.0

The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 15, 2015, 05:27:18 PM
Heh, it seems that all the hustlers and charlatans are coming out of the woodwork.

Or--they  a getting ready for any democratic demonstration to be met with organised violence  under defence of Russian values guise-- ala Yanukovych and Berkut created street thugs in Kiev & across Ukraine
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Brass's post is a prelude to Civil War.  Can we remain neutral?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 15, 2015, 05:55:09 PM
Brass's post is a prelude to Civil War.  Can we remain neutral?


Yes we can and we will.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 15, 2015, 06:09:45 PM

Yes we can and we will.

A civil war requires participants from two entities within the country.  I don't think any Russian Ukrainians wish to fight against Kyiv in an armed conflict after seeing the carnage in the East. 

Now, if Krim were to launch against Ukraine, proper, then it could be construed as a civil war, however, Krim has resolved itself to be part of Russia.  So it would be Russia attacking Ukraine.  Hmmm.  Where have we seen that before?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 06:12:33 PM
I meant a civil war in Russia.  I don't know I have never been there.  Thoughts?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 15, 2015, 06:14:10 PM
And I meant what I said.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 06:19:11 PM
Fine.  What do you suggest?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 15, 2015, 07:42:31 PM
Better start learning Mandarin if you live in Siberia or the Russian Far East...

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/01/14/the-most-debated-room-for-debates/why-china-will-reclaim-siberia-21
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 15, 2015, 08:53:48 PM

That 20 dollars a barrel seems like a wet dream for you JayH...today oil is up 6% to over 48 dollars a barrel, so it would take more than another 50% drop from a low point to get down to 20 a barrel...


Fathertime!
OH-- not what the numbers say is it? Not $48--it is
Not only do you not want to read links-you can not even see who actually made that prediction.Perhaps you should stick to something you know about--of course if you do-- we will not be reading any of your posts.
Oil is at--

$41.65    ---- http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_graphs/40.htm
Oil is at--
http://nvua.net/opinion/rabinovich/chto-budet-s-rf-pri-20-za-barrel-29348.html

But between that period and the current situation, there is one difference. Since the peak in July last year, these funds have eliminated only 25% of its "position on the increase." But their positions are so huge that even if they eliminate another 25%, they will still own a large number of contracts than they held during the bear market in 2008. According to Steve Briese, the possible elimination of another 25% is quite easy to cause capitulation to $ 20 per barrel.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 15, 2015, 09:03:30 PM

Yes


http://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/russian-naval-capabilities-and-procurement-plans/ (http://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/russian-naval-capabilities-and-procurement-plans/)



 
Thanks for the link.



Again, because Obama's strategy of not attacking Russia, like some unthinkers here blast him for not doing and also for being, er, different, and allowing the EU to take the lead so far has resulted in a "non-hostile" situation. Still, the Russians are blaming the US for its DIRECT involvement (and some EU fascists) in Ukraine. Now, imagine if the US would have gotten involved. WWIII

Obama has not made many wrong moves, regarding this particular crisis...despite what the naysayers are saying....another guy in office and this would have played out differently, but probably worse....but we will never know....a steady hand has been his greatest strength thus far....I think it is loco to talk about bombing the Russians...as if they won't retaliate in a significant way. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 09:11:22 PM
All lives matter, FT.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 09:25:51 PM
Beijing is a lot closer than Moscow (& perhaps less greedy).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 15, 2015, 09:34:11 PM
OH-- not what the numbers say is it? Not $48--it is
Not only do you not want to read links-you can not even see who actually made that prediction.Perhaps you should stick to something you know about--of course if you do-- we will not be reading any of your posts.
Oil is at--

$41.65    ---- http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_graphs/40.htm (http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/data_graphs/40.htm)
Oil is at--
http://nvua.net/opinion/rabinovich/chto-budet-s-rf-pri-20-za-barrel-29348.html (http://nvua.net/opinion/rabinovich/chto-budet-s-rf-pri-20-za-barrel-29348.html)

But between that period and the current situation, there is one difference. Since the peak in July last year, these funds have eliminated only 25% of its "position on the increase." But their positions are so huge that even if they eliminate another 25%, they will still own a large number of contracts than they held during the bear market in 2008. According to Steve Briese, the possible elimination of another 25% is quite easy to cause capitulation to $ 20 per barrel.


Oil tycoon Jay is having more wet dreams.   Oil is at 46 and 1/2 right now (not 41) it hasn't been that low yet....I have a live link from your favorite website:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=clg15.nym (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=clg15.nym)


I asserted a couple weeks ago that it is very unlikely to go below 30 and not stay below 40 for an extended period, unless we hit another recession...and if that happens then who knows...


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 09:51:16 PM
Demand for oil will push the price up or geopolitical instability - the cornered rat
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 15, 2015, 09:52:04 PM
Let OPEC know will ya!!   They have the wrong price!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TheBullRDR on January 15, 2015, 09:59:14 PM
Quote
I think it is loco to talk about bombing the Russians...as if they won't retaliate in a significant way. 


Fathertime!

That is exactly right.  Surest way to get that idiot over there to break out his big toys is to whip a rock at him with a sling shot.  With his mentality, he would relish the chance to have a reason to cry foul and go at it with the USA. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 15, 2015, 10:05:41 PM
Better start learning Mandarin if you live in Siberia or the Russian Far East...

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/01/14/the-most-debated-room-for-debates/why-china-will-reclaim-siberia-21

Because Russia has so many Nuclear weapons it's highly unlikely that something like this could happen in our lifetimes.  Perhaps someday if there is some sort of EMP weapon which will wipe out all the Nukes, then maybe.

Here is a comment by somebody who read the article and commented about it online:



HJ
 USA 16 hours ago
"As the previous commentator suggested, the ideas behind this article are based largely on outdated fear mongering. This "yellow peril" myth dates back to the late 19th century, & has little basis in reality.

The most generous estimates suggest that ethnic Chinese make up no more than 3-5% of the regional population in Siberia & the Russian Far East (& yes, those are distinct regions, learn your geography), most of whom are concentrated in the border areas. Out of that 3-5%, nearly 9 out of 10 are seasonal migrants with no intention of long-term settlement. This translates into 300 thousand Chinese, & 30 thousand possible permanent settlers ('permanent' is defined here as more than 2 years, btw). The bottom line is this - "invasion by migration" is not an option.

As for the military option mentioned in this article, a full-scale armed invasion of the world's largest nuclear weapons state is hardly a realistic choice for China. This is about as likely a scenario as an UFO-landing in Manhattan. No amount of Russian natural resources would offset the devastation to China brought by a nuclear exchange.

Furthermore, it's not in China's strategic interests to annex Siberia & upset the status quo. China is already gaining ever increasing access to Russian resources without a takeover
; any attempt to do so would provoke Russia to limit Chinese trade & investment opportunities, as well as possible retaliation against China via support for separatists in Tibet & Xinjiang."


 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 10:07:02 PM
Sounds like loser talk . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 15, 2015, 10:13:29 PM
Let OPEC know will ya!!   They have the wrong price!!


...and you think Russia is a part of OPEC.... :ROFL: .....you really should get your facts straightened out...whatever silly price you are quoting is not relevant...oil is indeed above 46 (for the moment)...not at 41 like you continue to ignorantly insist.   :rolleyes:   When it gets there you can gloat...but for now you are wrong and dreaming (as usual). 




Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 15, 2015, 10:18:02 PM

...and you think Russia is a part of OPEC.... :ROFL: .....you really should get your facts straightened out...whatever silly price you are quoting is not relevant...oil is indeed above 46 (for the moment)...not at 41 like you continue to ignorantly insist.   :rolleyes:   When it gets there you can gloat...but for now you are wrong and dreaming (as usual). 

Fathertime!   
Not hard--read the chart-even you should manage.
Of course--how silly of me not to realise that it is Russia that sets the agenda on oil price!!  You better let OPEC know that too!!

Does lead me to wonder how the price is so low that it is killing Russia!! :cluebat:
finis
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 15, 2015, 10:26:39 PM
Not hard--read the chart-even you should manage.
Of course--how silly of me not to realise that it is Russia that sets the agenda on oil price!!  You better let OPEC know that too!!

Does lead me to wonder how the price is so low that it is killing Russia!! :cluebat:
finis


Don't blame me, but the oil price is still 46 and some change today on the open market.  I could site a dozen articles that state such and I guess I'll just give you two for the moment.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volatile-oil-dips-high-u-033338987.html;_ylt=AwrSyCN3nLhU8RwAZrSTmYlQ (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volatile-oil-dips-high-u-033338987.html;_ylt=AwrSyCN3nLhU8RwAZrSTmYlQ)


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-prices-edge-technical-price- (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-prices-edge-technical-price-021651448.html;_ylt=AwrSyCPtn7hU4hwAuceTmYlQ)
[size=78%]021651448.html;_ylt=AwrSyCPtn7hU4hwAuceTmYlQ (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-prices-edge-technical-price-021651448.html;_ylt=AwrSyCPtn7hU4hwAuceTmYlQ)[/size]


I would think you would like to at least be somewhat truthful in what you report...but apparently it is more important to gloat about falsities then actually state what is happening.   :rolleyes: [/size][size=78%]There may come a time when oil  dips to the levels you are begging for, but for the time being that hasn't happened...and like many things you are just reporting what you are wishing for rather than the actual truth.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Fathertime!    [/size]



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 15, 2015, 10:33:21 PM
Because Russia has so many Nuclear weapons it's highly unlikely that something like this could happen in our lifetimes.  Perhaps someday if there is some sort of EMP weapon which will wipe out all the Nukes, then maybe.

Here is a comment by somebody who read the article and commented about it online:



HJ
 USA 16 hours ago
"As the previous commentator suggested, the ideas behind this article are based largely on outdated fear mongering. This "yellow peril" myth dates back to the late 19th century, & has little basis in reality.

The most generous estimates suggest that ethnic Chinese make up no more than 3-5% of the regional population in Siberia & the Russian Far East (& yes, those are distinct regions, learn your geography), most of whom are concentrated in the border areas. Out of that 3-5%, nearly 9 out of 10 are seasonal migrants with no intention of long-term settlement. This translates into 300 thousand Chinese, & 30 thousand possible permanent settlers ('permanent' is defined here as more than 2 years, btw). The bottom line is this - "invasion by migration" is not an option.

As for the military option mentioned in this article, a full-scale armed invasion of the world's largest nuclear weapons state is hardly a realistic choice for China. This is about as likely a scenario as an UFO-landing in Manhattan. No amount of Russian natural resources would offset the devastation to China brought by a nuclear exchange.

Furthermore, it's not in China's strategic interests to annex Siberia & upset the status quo. China is already gaining ever increasing access to Russian resources without a takeover
; any attempt to do so would provoke Russia to limit Chinese trade & investment opportunities, as well as possible retaliation against China via support for separatists in Tibet & Xinjiang."


If what you and the commentator said is true, you just ruined Sleepycat's fantasy....and it seems factually based so it probably is. 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Chinese_in_Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Chinese_in_Russia)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 15, 2015, 10:44:40 PM
Better start learning Mandarin if you live in Siberia or the Russian Far East...

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/01/14/the-most-debated-room-for-debates/why-china-will-reclaim-siberia-21


Speculation. China wouldn't risk getting nuked over Siberia. China is more interested in Taiwan. If Russia starts something in Europe, it may be China's best opportunity to take Taiwan. World leaders will or already have discussed possibilities behind closed doors. If Russia starts something in Europe, I wouldn't be surprised if war breaks out in other parts of the world. Putin knows we will attend to South Korea and the Middle East before we attend to Eastern Europe. Creating mayhem around the world is beneficial to Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 15, 2015, 10:52:06 PM

If what you and the commentator said is true, you just ruined Sleepycat's fantasy....and it seems factually based so it probably is. 


Trust me, it's my fantasy as well.  And I believe it may happen in the future as I alluded to, when weapons are developed which disable Nuclear weapons.  A shooting war only and Siberia and the Russian Far East are overwhelmed within 48 hours.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 15, 2015, 10:53:25 PM
Russia is like a one note singer - nuke, nuke, nuke.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 15, 2015, 10:56:38 PM
Russia is like a one note singer - nuke, nuke, nuke.

That's a pretty powerful note should someone be so foolish as to try to invade what is now Russian territory (such as Crimea or any other part of Russia).  Only a fool would talk about such from his comfy Lazy Boy recliner in the West, while taking a break from his video games.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 16, 2015, 03:29:15 AM
Its a bluff.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 16, 2015, 02:53:44 PM

Don't blame me, but the oil price is still 46 and some change today on the open market.  I could site a dozen articles that state such and I guess I'll just give you two for the moment.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volatile-oil-dips-high-u-033338987.html;_ylt=AwrSyCN3nLhU8RwAZrSTmYlQ (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volatile-oil-dips-high-u-033338987.html;_ylt=AwrSyCN3nLhU8RwAZrSTmYlQ)


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-prices-edge-technical-price- (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-prices-edge-technical-price-021651448.html;_ylt=AwrSyCPtn7hU4hwAuceTmYlQ)
[size=78%]021651448.html;_ylt=AwrSyCPtn7hU4hwAuceTmYlQ (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-prices-edge-technical-price-021651448.html;_ylt=AwrSyCPtn7hU4hwAuceTmYlQ)[/size]


I would think you would like to at least be somewhat truthful in what you report...but apparently it is more important to gloat about falsities then actually state what is happening.   :rolleyes: [/size][size=78%]There may come a time when oil  dips to the levels you are begging for, but for the time being that hasn't happened...and like many things you are just reporting what you are wishing for rather than the actual truth.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Fathertime!    [/size]

Yeah--truth-- you and AC & RT Today have something in common-- no capacity for the truth-try and read again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At every point I posted a link confirming-- yet your baseless accusations persist!Here it is again--

OPEC daily basket price stood at $43.14 a barrel Thursday, 15 January 2015

Vienna, 16 January 2015--The price of OPEC basket of twelve crudes stood at 43.14 dollars a barrel on Thursday, compared with $41.65 the previous day, according to OPEC Secretariat calculations. (View Archives)
http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/923.htm
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 16, 2015, 03:24:09 PM
Strong dollar:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102342803

The euro continued to extend losses against the U.S. dollar, hitting a fresh 11-year low of $1.156.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 16, 2015, 05:35:55 PM
Yeah--truth-- you and AC & RT Today have something in common-- no capacity for the truth-try and read again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At every point I posted a link confirming-- yet your baseless accusations persist!Here it is again--

OPEC daily basket price stood at $43.14 a barrel Thursday, 15 January 2015

Vienna, 16 January 2015--The price of OPEC basket of twelve crudes stood at 43.14 dollars a barrel on Thursday, compared with $41.65 the previous day, according to OPEC Secretariat calculations. (View Archives)
http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/923.htm (http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/923.htm)


..that ridiculous basket price is not the price of oil...You only use it because it is a lower number, that is obvious.... the price of oil as we speak is:  48.48...up 4.82% today...what a tremendous disappointment for you personally!   :D   


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 16, 2015, 05:38:52 PM
By the way you post here, you wouldn't be able to drive in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 16, 2015, 06:52:11 PM
ANALYSIS
Oil slide to $10? Don't scoff, it's happened before: Don Pittis

As some bet on sub-$20 oil, we look for tools to tell us where prices will go next
By Don Pittis, CBC News Posted: Jan 16, 2015 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Jan 16, 2015 10:26 AM ET
Betting on $20

Certainly there are traders using a financial derivative called "put options" to bet that oil will fall below $20 US a barrel.

"There has been some light trading in June $20 puts," writes William Watts in Market Watch. But according to experts who watch the market, many more bets are being placed that the price will fall below $30 US.

“In other words, bets on sub-$30 crude oil in June are now 1.7 times greater than physical inventory," energy derivatives expert Stephen Schork tells Watts.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/oil-slide-to-10-don-t-scoff-it-s-happened-before-don-pittis-1.2901843
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 16, 2015, 07:29:26 PM
Its a bluff.

Then gather your Army of misfits and invade Crimea or any other part of Russia.  Obviously they won't need Nukes to handle you, but if there was a real invasion force I have no doubt they would use them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 16, 2015, 07:30:06 PM
Russia is like a one note singer - nuke, nuke, nuke.

Nuke, Nuke, Nuke, Nuke of Earl, Earl, Earl. 

(To be sung to the tune of Here comes Peter Cottontail.)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 16, 2015, 10:48:50 PM
Then gather your Army of misfits and invade Crimea or any other part of Russia.  Obviously they won't need Nukes to handle you, but if there was a real invasion force I have no doubt they would use them.

It must be hard to go through life amidst all these self inflicted false dichotomies
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 16, 2015, 10:49:26 PM
Nuke, Nuke, Nuke, Nuke of Earl, Earl, Earl. 

(To be sung to the tune of Here comes Peter Cottontail.)

 :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 16, 2015, 11:31:29 PM
It must be hard to go through life amidst all these self inflicted false dichotomies

Funny but a little more then a month ago you were warning us all that Russia had Nuclear weapons and we should be afraid of them, but now it's you who is saying it is a bluff when before it was me who is saying it's a bluff.

The difference is that I was talking about the West helping Ukraine defend the Donbas, and now when I say yes, if somebody is foolish enough to invade Russia they will probably use their tactical Nukes.

Can you see the difference?  :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 16, 2015, 11:39:37 PM
Saakashvili on Putin.


http://video.foxnews.com/v/3362149712001/saakashvili-putin-wants-to-cripple-new-democracies-/?#sp=show-clips
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 17, 2015, 12:25:16 AM
Looks like the sanctions will remain...

Ukraine: MEPs condemn terrorist acts and say sanctions against Russia must stay

Plenary Session  Press release - External relations − 15-01-2015 - 12:58

..."EU sanctions against Russia should stay in place until it changes its aggressive policy in Ukraine, respects the ceasefire, withdraws its troops and stops supporting separatists, says Parliament in a resolution voted on Thursday. MEPs condemn “acts of terrorism” in Ukraine. urge the EU to come up with a plan to counter the Russian "information war" and help Ukraine to carry out reforms, cope with its humanitarian and health emergency and enhance its defence capabilities.

MEPs strongly condemn Russia's "aggressive and expansionist policy" and "the acts of terrorism and criminal behaviour committed by the separatists and other irregular forces in Eastern Ukraine". They urge the EU Council at its March 2015 meeting to maintain current EU sanctions against Russia and approve “benchmarks” for lifting them. These should include respecting the ceasefire, unconditional withdrawal of Russian troops and illegal armed groups, exchanging all prisoners and restoring Ukraine’s control over its whole territory, including Crimea.In the event of further Russian actions destabilising Ukraine, the Council should broaden the range of sanctions to include the nuclear sector and international financial transactions.

Political and diplomatic channels towards Russia must nonetheless stay open, adds the text.

Counter the “information war”

MEPs call on the EU to pay particular attention to the "information war" pursued by Russia and ask the Commission to propose, within two months, a communication strategy to counter the Russian propaganda campaign directed at the EU, its eastern neighbours and Russia itself.

Help with reforms and humanitarian aid

MEPs call on the EU to deliver "more substantial technical assistance", including deploying advisers and experts, to help Ukraine to implement reforms. They note that since the Council lifted the arms embargo on Ukraine on 16 July, there are "no objections" to EU countries supplying defensive arms to Ukraine, and suggest that the EU consider helping Ukraine to enhance its defence capabilities.

The EU should also do more to help tackle the humanitarian crisis in Ukraine, including Crimea, say MEPs, citing the plight of internally displaced persons and the health emergency in eastern Ukraine, "with hospitals not fully functioning and a shortage of medicines and vaccines".

MEPs ask the European Commission to present a plan of humanitarian action in Ukraine to the European Parliament within the next two months."...

REF. : 20150109IPR06321
Updated:
(
 15-01-2015 - 13:11

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20150109IPR06321/html/Ukraine-MEPs-condemn-terrorist-acts-and-say-sanctions-against-Russia-must-stay

Note my bolded. I'm not sure if the EU council was a proposal of the lifting of the arms embargo and the EU parliament's just ratified it or EU countries have been free to supply defensive arms to Ukraine since July. However, this statement gives some credence to Ukraine's PM who on several occasions has commented that countries were supplying defensive arms.

Either way, it's now apparently official the EU has no objections to EU countries supplying defensive arms to Ukraine. Now all that needs to be clarified is what constitutes "defensive arms" to the EU parliament.

The Kyiv Post is reporting the Russians aren't happy...

Russia accuses European parliament of gunning for war

..."Russian officials have accused the European Union of "militancy" in a bitter response to the Jan. 15 European parliament resolution giving member states carte blanche to supply arms to Ukraine."...

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/russia-accuses-european-parliament-of-gunning-for-war-377618.html

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 17, 2015, 12:28:29 AM
The bad news just keeps coming! It makes you wonder what cash is actually in the kitty !!


Russia misses deadline for $50 billion Yukos payment

The Russian government missed the deadline on Jan. 15 for paying $50 billion to the shareholders of defunct oil company Yukos in what has been called the largest commercial lawsuit in history.

Yukos’ shareholders are planning to seek seizure of Russian government assets abroad as payment for the debt, dealing yet another blow to the Kremlin amid an economic and financial crisis. The lawsuit, along with falling oil prices and a plummeting ruble, could make it harder for the Kremlin to finance its ongoing war against Ukraine.

Yukos was bankrupted and dismembered by Russian authorities in 2004 to 2007 as a result of what is widely believed to be a politically motivated and illegitimate tax evasion case. Many Yukos executives were jailed as part of the case.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/russia-misses-deadline-for-50-billion-yukos-payment-377554.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 17, 2015, 02:39:45 AM
And more bad news-- seriously-- those trying to tell us sanctions will have little affect!

Fitch downgraded the ratings of 30 Russian financial institutions

16 January 2015   Choose a date  22:01
Including lowered ratings of the largest banks - Sberbank, Gazprombank, Vnesheconombank, Russian Agricultural Bank

Moscow. January 16. INTERFAX.RU - International rating agency Fitch Ratings lowered the ratings of 30 Russian financial institutions and their "daughters" by one step. This was reported in the press release from the agency.

In particular, lowered the ratings of the largest credit institutions - Sberbank, Gazprombank, Vnesheconombank (VEB), the Russian Agricultural Bank (RAB). Long-term foreign currency rating of Sberbank lowered from "BBB" to "BBB-".

Also lowered the ratings of financial organizations owned by Russian banks - in particular, Denizbank. Indicators were dropped Russian subsidiaries of foreign banks - JSC "Raiffeisenbank", CJSC "Citibank", CJSC "ING Bank (Eurasia)" and others.

January 13 Fitch downgraded the ratings of 13 major Russian companies. In particular, the lower performance of "Gazprom", "Gazprom Neft", "Lukoil", "Atomenergoprom" RZD "UES FGC". Revision also touched on some of the "daughters" of these companies.

http://www.interfax.ru/business/418387
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 17, 2015, 03:01:10 AM
And again !!
The economic position of Russia lowered the third international credit rating. bbc.com

 Pro-Putin Russia was on the last step of ratings that are considered investment
 International rating agency Moody's downgraded the credit rating of the level of "Baa3". This means that Russia "slipped" on the last step of the rating, which is considered an investment. With further decrease, which can happen with a negative outlook by Moody's, government bonds will drop to the "speculative" or "junk" level.
This is means that investors are not encouraged to invest in the Russian economy. This writes slon.ru. In Moody's named two main reasons for the downgrade: the impact podeshevshannya oil and the ruble on the Russian economy and reductions in state reserves through future payments on external debt of Russian banks and corporations. Moody's - the last of the agencies "big three", which downgraded the threshold of "garbage".
 Earlier, Standard & Poor's and Fitch lowered the estimate of Russian government bonds to "BBB-" (corresponding to "Baa3" in Moody's). Minister of Economic Development of Russia Alexei Ulyukayev said the downgrade of the country to the "garbage" is very likely. In early January to Bloomberg analysts put Russia in fifth place in the list of countries in which the most likely to default.

Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/groshi/rosiyu-nakrilo-cunami-globalnogo-pogirshennya-kreditnih-reytingiv-prognozuyut-defolt-403344.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 17, 2015, 08:05:43 AM
It ain't cheerleading if its factual folks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 17, 2015, 08:10:39 AM
Funny but a little more then a month ago you were warning us all that Russia had Nuclear weapons and we should be afraid of them, but now it's you who is saying it is a bluff when before it was me who is saying it's a bluff.

The difference is that I was talking about the West helping Ukraine defend the Donbas, and now when I say yes, if somebody is foolish enough to invade Russia they will probably use their tactical Nukes.

Can you see the difference?  :popcorn:

There is a difference.  The presence of nukes shouldn't encourage timidity in the face aggression but boldness.   Thanks for your comment.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 18, 2015, 09:40:14 PM
Rosy article about the state of the Russian economy especially for the viewing pleasure of Doll...

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/russias-economic-crisis-has-officially-arrived-2015-1

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 18, 2015, 10:06:00 PM
Rosy article about the state of the Russian economy especially for the viewing pleasure of Doll...

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/russias-economic-crisis-has-officially-arrived-2015-1

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Well written article.  It will be interesting to see if Doll still wants to return to her 'mother Russia' as it falls apart.  She has been enjoying democracy, free press, market economy in the good 'ol USA while she continues to badmouth the country she currently lives in.  It would be interesting to know how her American husband feels about leaving the USA for Russia.    :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 18, 2015, 10:15:43 PM
I happened to catch a glimpse of BBC tonight as saw a story about Ukraine retaking most of the Donetsk airport.  Some posts on Kiev Post suggests that it may be the case.  One of the links has a Life News reporter in the mess of it.  Gotta admit that guy has some balls.    :D

http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/ukraine-donetsk-airport#.caGAvE7qB

http://mfa-gov-ukraine.blogspot.com/2015/01/ukraines-military-says-troops-retake.html?spref=fb

http://www.rferl.org/content/donetsk-fighting-poroshenko-airport-pledge/26800304.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 18, 2015, 11:44:56 PM
I happened to catch a glimpse of BBC tonight as saw a story about Ukraine retaking most of the Donetsk airport.  Some posts on Kiev Post suggests that it may be the case.  One of the links has a Life News reporter in the mess of it.  Gotta admit that guy has some balls.    :D

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18025.msg389292#msg389292

Link to thread--I have been updating as best I can on situation.

Depending on which "Life" report you saw-- some of it was staged  -- and wrong!!


Biryukov told to evacuate the wounded "cyborgs"
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/biryukov-povidomiv-pro-evakuaciyu-poranenih-kiborgiv-403551.html
Tonight ATO evacuated wounded soldiers from Donetsk airport. Told on Facebook Adviser to the President of Ukraine and the Assistant Secretary of Defense Yuri Biryukov. "Deep in the night evacuation of the wounded from the new terminal, a partial rotation. We did not throw his them nobody forgot, no one and no one zlyvav. Everything is just not right," - said Biryukov.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/biryukov-povidomiv-pro-evakuaciyu-poranenih-kiborgiv-403551.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 19, 2015, 01:19:45 AM
  It will be interesting to see if Doll still wants to return to her 'mother Russia' as it falls apart.  She has been enjoying democracy, free press, market economy in the good 'ol USA while she continues to badmouth the country she currently lives in. 

Not to mention a wide choice of imported groceries from all over the world at her local supermarket!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2015, 11:48:32 AM
‎That's a bunch of truckloads of Cargo 200 as well as wounded Cargo 300!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Russian‬ activist Elena Vasilieva: 382 Russian soldiers killed in ‪#Ukraine‬ in last 3 days

Respected Russian human rights activist Elena Vasilieva has announced that 382 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine during the last three days.

"I came back from the war zone. It is impossible to call it an ATO zone - it is a real merciless war there," Vasilieva writes on her official website. "I'm already afraid to write these numbers. The Russian army has huge losses over the past three days. 382 people - selected Special Forces, marines, paratroopers. Up to 500 injured. More likely the number of wounded is much higher. But we have no access to the full information about the injured from the Russian side."

The activist said that, counting the most recent 382 deaths, the total loss on the Russian side is 6,242 killed.

It's impossible to verify Vasilieva's claim because the Russian government insists that no Russian soldiers are fighting in Ukraine -- only volunteers -- and the Ukrainian government also does not have reliable figures on the number of enemy casualties.

Vasilieva in early August said she created the group called “Cargo 200 from Ukraine to Russia” in social networks. Its name is a reference to dead bodies carried across the border. The name caught attention of tens of thousands of people, and the group started receiving information about regular army soldiers, officers and former military who volunteered to fight and were killed in eastern Ukraine.

Vasilieva became the source of information for hundreds of Russians women whose sons and husbands secretly went (or were sent) to war. Vasilieva is the one who tells them what military units of the Russian Federation took part in which fights, and what to do if a soldier has not been in communication for some weeks.


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/russian-activist-382-russian-soldiers-killed-in-ukraine-during-last-three-days-377786.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 19, 2015, 11:55:20 AM
I find her numbers difficult to believe.  I don't believe over three hundred were killed over the weekend.

But I don't believe the Russian government, either. 

What I do believe is that the Ukrainian forces are becoming more and more resolved to the task before them.  I also believe that Putin is in an increasingly difficult place.  The longer this plays out, the more his hand is revealed and the more desperate he becomes.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 19, 2015, 12:07:19 PM
How is it possible to applaud because people died?
What a shame!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 19, 2015, 12:30:30 PM
How is it possible to applaud because people died?
What a shame!

Don't worry, they're not really over there in Ukraine to begin with, so now they're just figments of your imagination.  Ghosts.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2015, 12:39:25 PM
How is it possible to applaud because people died?
What a shame!


It's easy! Watch again..  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


See how that works?

 Every one of those dead volunteers is less Ukrainian defenders hurt or killed.
 Keep them in Muskovi and they'll be happier as will their mothers.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 19, 2015, 12:44:07 PM
Again,

Ukraine claims that in the past three days, there were 3 servicemen killed and 66 wounded in the fighting.  Over that same period of time, the above posts claims 382 Russian/Separatist corpses.  Seems far fetched to me.  But, then, maybe the Cyborgs aren't killable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2015, 12:45:07 PM
I find her numbers difficult to believe.  I don't believe over three hundred were killed over the weekend.

But I don't believe the Russian government, either. 

What I do believe is that the Ukrainian forces are becoming more and more resolved to the task before them.  I also believe that Putin is in an increasingly difficult place.  The longer this plays out, the more his hand is revealed and the more desperate he becomes.

 The local news is doing interviews with ATO soldiers, There's been heavy killing at the airport and Lugansk. 150 plus at the airport and about 200 in Lugansk while gaining 2 KMs

 That's a good start. :D


 But there has been some UA dead also. 20 is a rough number and 60 wounded.   :'(  Slava Heroyam
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 19, 2015, 01:21:56 PM
Don't worry, they're not really over there in Ukraine to begin with, so now they're just figments of your imagination.  Ghosts.
I reacted on Mike's post. Not sure if he is a human being at all.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 19, 2015, 01:26:20 PM
I reacted on Mike's post. Not sure if he is a human being at all.

We wonder the same thing about you.  Your Russian soldiers in Ukraine can either lay down their weapons and leave peaceably, or leave in body bags.





And BTW I do feel sympathy for many of them who have been deliberately lied to by Huilo and his FSB/GRU operators in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 19, 2015, 01:26:54 PM
What is Muskovi?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 19, 2015, 01:27:50 PM
We wonder the same thing about you.  Your Russian soldiers in Ukraine can either lay down their weapons and leave peaceably, or leave in body bags.
I said long ago-I am against ANY war.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2015, 01:32:24 PM
I reacted on Mike's post. Not sure if he is a human being at all.

 It's funny how I have tons of compassion for Ukrainian soldiers that are killing the invading terrorists and Muskovi soldiers. I have donated a bunch of cash and supplies already..

 I have no compassion for the invading terrorists.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2015, 01:34:54 PM
I said long ago-I am against ANY war.

 Then why are you the head cheerleader for the invaders that started the war?  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 19, 2015, 01:36:38 PM
I have compassion for Ukraine as well. Each an every Ukrainian - I mean for those who suffer from war.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 19, 2015, 01:37:44 PM
Then why are you the head cheerleader for the invaders that started the war?  :rolleyes:
I am not- show me where  said something like that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 19, 2015, 01:44:22 PM
I am not- show me where  said something like that.

Seriously?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2015, 01:48:14 PM
I am not- show me where  said something like that.


ROTFLMFAO!!

 That's funny!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 19, 2015, 01:51:21 PM

ROTFLMFAO!!

 That's funny!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Show me a single word when I supported war. None of Russian women (and men) do it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2015, 01:52:46 PM
You support the terrorists puppeteer...  :rolleyes:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 19, 2015, 02:10:42 PM
I said long ago-I am against ANY war.

That's a bold faced lie.  You support V. Putin and you therefore support war in Ukraine.  All of your silly denials don't change the facts.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2015, 02:32:11 PM
How We Know Russia's Economic Crisis Has Officially Arrived   :clapping:



Judging by the lack of economic news in Russia's media, a crisis has arrived.

Just as in Soviet days, state television does not report facts, it conceals them. The official picture is dominated by the war in Ukraine (fuelled by America), Ukraine's economic collapse (ignored by America), and Russia's achievements in sport, ballet and other spheres (envied by America).

But whereas television does not mention the economy, ordinary Russians have been busily changing rubles into dollars, buying anything that has not gone up in price and making contingency plans.

In the first two weeks of the year, when Russia was on holiday, the ruble fell by 17.5% against the dollar. Inflation is up into double figures. The price of oil, Russia's main export, has slid below $50 a barrel, prompting economists to revise their forecasts down. GDP is now expected to contract by between 3% and 5% this year. Russia's credit rating is moving inexorably towards junk.

The government's Zen-like calm betrays a lack of strategy. Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, is shown on television receiving positive reports from regional governors. Yet the fall in oil prices to below $50 a barrel will cost the state budget, which was calculated on the basis of $100 a barrel, 3 trillion rubles ($45 billion), or 20% of planned revenues, according to Anton Siluanov, the finance minister.

He was already planning to lop 10% off the budget, but may now have to cut further. Even if pensions and salaries are raised by 5%, double-digit inflation means that real incomes will decline for the first time since Mr Putin came to power in 2000.

The Kremlin hopes to ride out the crisis, as it did in 2008-09 when GDP contracted by 7.5%. Then the government was able to stimulate demand by increasing public spending and saving indebted firms. It no longer has that option. Russia's reserves are lower than they were four years ago and may last only for a year and a half, at best. Worse, the government has lost credibility.

An increase in interest rates to 17% in December was intended to defend the ruble, but it has not worked. Russians have lost faith in the currency and are starting to withdraw deposits, argues Natalia Orlova, chief economist at Alfa Bank.

The ruble's fall would have been even greater had it not been for the Kremlin telling exporters to sell foreign-currency revenues while also warning large firms not to buy. Yet whatever liquidity the central bank supplies to Russian banks, the money finds its way into the foreign-currency market, putting more pressure on the ruble.

Any injection of liquidity may thus end up not stimulating domestic demand but merely increasing capital outflows. The only way to support the ruble is to limit the provision of liquidity to banks; but that in turn would put banks under pressure. German Gref, the head of Sberbank, Russia's largest state bank, is reportedly warning that a currency crisis could become a "massive" banking crisis.

Faced with capital outflows and falling oil prices, lack of access to foreign markets and its own demographic problems, Russia is unlikely to come out of this crisis fast. Its hope that devaluation would spur import substitution, as after the 1998 default, and so drive growth is unrealistic.

At the time Russia was substituting basic goods that could be produced on spare, outdated equipment left behind by the Soviet economy. The things that Russia imports today cannot rapidly be replaced domestically. That would demand investment which few are willing to risk.

alexei kudrinAlexei Kudrin.

Alexei Kudrin, a former finance minister, and Evsey Gurvich, an economist, argue that Russia's economy cannot be repaired by monetary or fiscal measures. Even weak institutions are a secondary issue. At the heart of Russia's malaise is the weakening of market forces and suppression of competition, which means there is no longer much of a market economy.

The expansion of the state means that, although Russia no longer has Gosplan, its economy is dominated by state or quasi-state firms whose revenues depend not on their economic efficiency but on political contacts. Skewed incentives as well as corruption and a lack of property rights have forced the most efficient companies out of the market, strengthening the position of parasitic and badly managed state firms. Falling oil prices have revealed these defects, not caused them.

As Mr Kudrin and Mr Gurvich explain, Russia's exceptional growth between 1998 and 2008 was essentially imported: it was down to easy money, brought about by rising oil prices and cheap credit. This fuelled consumption that was satisfied by imports and an increase in domestic output.

The government was busy redistributing rents rather than restructuring or modernising the economy. Private firms and the Kremlin opted for quick profits rather than long-term investments. Even in 2009 the government's goal was to minimise the political fallout of the financial crisis, rather than to make the economy more competitive.

Russia's only way out now is to restructure the economy in order to restore the role of markets. Twenty-five years ago this transition was made possible by the collapse of the Soviet Union and change in the Kremlin. In an implicit message to Mr Putin, Mr Kudrin argues that it could now be managed under this presidency, but with a different government. Mr Putin is unconvinced. Even as he ponders his options, the economy continues to slide, whatever the television may not say.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-economic-crisis-has-officially-arrived-2015-1#ixzz3PIzO53eC
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 19, 2015, 02:58:34 PM
Kudrin wants Medvedev out, that is his real message. He wants back in.

I have always acknowledged Alexei as being one of the sharpest financial minds in Russia, however even he knows that the Medvedev government is carrying out the orders of the Putin economic agenda.

This may, and I do not know for certain, be a sign that the Medvedev government will come to an end. I am not sure if Kudrin would be so bold without an okay from above.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 19, 2015, 03:05:51 PM
Again,

Ukraine claims that in the past three days, there were 3 servicemen killed and 66 wounded in the fighting.  Over that same period of time, the above posts claims 382 Russian/Separatist corpses.  Seems far fetched to me.  But, then, maybe the Cyborgs aren't killable.

Jone-- the fighting has been the most intense and highest tech so far in this war--the battles bigger and reported from many directions.
There is no doubt the Russian have lost a lot of men over these last few days--and it is hardly likely they will admit it.I have seen numerous reports of a mobile crematorium being used by the Russian forces in Ukraine--in a clear attempt to hide the loss of life of Russian army personal.
On the other hand--Ukraine has consistently advised of those illed and wounded-- and made significent attempts to find out what has happened to any missing personal-- it is as big a contrast of transparency possible.
While the actual numbers of Russians dying in their invasion of Ukraine may not be accurately verifiable-- there are numerous anectdotal reports that are cross referenced confirmations  that can paint the general picture-- that plenty of Russians are being killed!
http://twitter.com/euromaidan/status/557282215001075712
 Follow
 
ЄVROMAYDAN
@ euromaidan
Gerashchenko: According to our data, killing about 300 terrorists.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 19, 2015, 03:23:01 PM
I have compassion for Ukraine as well. Each an every Ukrainian - I mean for those who suffer from war.
I seem to recall that you had no compassion when I wrote that my Russian-speaking fiancee had been driven from her home and town (Luhansk) by invading Russian mercenaries, led and advised by Russian GRU/spetsnaz agents/troops.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 19, 2015, 03:35:56 PM
I seem to recall that you had no compassion when I wrote that my Russian-speaking fiancee had been driven from her home and town (Luhansk) by invading Russian mercenaries, led and advised by Russian GRU/spetsnaz agents/troops.
She said she was disgusted by me, I answered that I didn't care. That's all.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 19, 2015, 05:17:23 PM
Even if the real number of Russkies killed is only 1/2 or 1/3 of the number reported, that is still a lot for a few day's worth of fighting.
Have Russian military tactics not evolved at all from the Soviets cannon fodder tactics of WW2?
Especially worrying is if the Russians are losing special forces people rather than just conscript infantry.
That says a lot about the quality of their military if big chunks of their special forces people are getting killed...

I can only imagine the kill ratio on the Russian military if ever they were to go up against an enemy force with first class training and modern weapons.  :shock:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 19, 2015, 05:58:24 PM
Fire and maneue require teamwork, knowing your team and leadership.  The principles of hybrid way belie such cooperation.  Its a dumb way to conduct a war.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 19, 2015, 06:30:20 PM
She said she was disgusted by me, I answered that I didn't care. That's all.

She is disgusted by all who support the moskali invasion of Ukraine, not just you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 19, 2015, 06:42:42 PM
Even if the real number of Russkies killed is only 1/2 or 1/3 of the number reported, that is still a lot for a few day's worth of fighting.
Have Russian military tactics not evolved at all from the Soviets cannon fodder tactics of WW2?
Especially worrying is if the Russians are losing special forces people rather than just conscript infantry.
That says a lot about the quality of their military if big chunks of their special forces people are getting killed...

I can only imagine the kill ratio on the Russian military if ever they were to go up against an enemy force with first class training and modern weapons.  :shock:

I believe that sending troops into a kill zone, without the best equipment a country can provide, which is apparently the case in the Separatist areas, is a tragic situation.  I believe that the people who ordered them to be there, playing a political game which hides the fact that they are there, are culpable for not supporting their own troops. 

We talked recently about he Kursk and how the Admiralty hid that they even had a problem.  Well, this is much worse.  Essentially the Russian kids are being sent to their deaths by giving them less support than if they were fighting a real war.  The people who ordered them there should be brought to justice and hanged. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TheBullRDR on January 19, 2015, 06:45:44 PM
I believe that sending troops into a kill zone, without the best equipment a country can provide, which is apparently the case in the Separatist areas, is a tragic situation.  I believe that the people who ordered them to be there, playing a political game which hides the fact that they are there, are culpable for not supporting their own troops. 

We talked recently about he Kursk and how the Admiralty hid that they even had a problem.  Well, this is much worse.  Essentially the Russian kids are being sent to their deaths by giving them less support than if they were fighting a real war.  The people who ordered them there should be brought to justice and hanged.

  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 19, 2015, 07:13:51 PM
She is disgusted by all who support the moskali invasion of Ukraine, not just you.
You said  I didn't have compassion. Show me. I just said I didn't care what she thought about me.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 20, 2015, 03:18:54 AM

Quote from: jone on Yesterday at 12:44:07 PM
Again,

Ukraine claims that in the past three days, there were 3 servicemen killed and 66 wounded in the fighting.  Over that same period of time, the above posts claims 382 Russian/Separatist corpses.  Seems far fetched to me.  But, then, maybe the Cyborgs aren't killable.
size=12pt]

In each of the deceased military killed 50 militants falls
[/size]
\

Value losses Ukrainian military and pro fighters is 1:50. That is, for each deceased participant falls ATO killed 50 militants. This was on ICTV adviser of President of Ukraine Yuri Biryukov. According to him, information about casualties among the militants comes from exploration in morgues and hospitals Donetsk. Recall, Russian human rights activist Yelena Vasilyeva said that in recent days Russia has lost the Donbass hundred Marines and Special Forces.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/na-kozhnogo-zagiblogo-viyskovogo-prihoditsya-50-vbitih-boyovikiv-biryukov-403771.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 20, 2015, 07:25:33 AM
We don't know what the kill ratio is and frankly its not important.  Senator Bookings told Westmoreland that his constituents don't care about the 10 Viet Cong killed.  They care about the 1.  We know Ukrainians are a brave people.  Why aren't we arming them?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 20, 2015, 08:07:21 PM
For once this event is not attributable to that midget mongoloid Putin!  :cluebat:
But since it is still bad new nevertheless so it probably still belong to this thread...

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-sounds-alarm-lake-baikals-water-levels-drop-205950468.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 20, 2015, 08:14:23 PM
Running on empty everywhere !
Nah--it is Putins fault!  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: bagalia on January 20, 2015, 08:47:39 PM
I think this has not hit the group yet. I only picked one page out of many sites available on a search for the generals name.

http://www.sursazilei.ro/ukrainian-army-killed-russian-general/

There are photos available of his dead carcass someplace on social media but I did not search for them as I do not know if that would be allowed here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on January 20, 2015, 08:52:25 PM
I think this has not hit the group yet. I only picked one page out of many sites available on a search for the generals name.

http://www.sursazilei.ro/ukrainian-army-killed-russian-general/

There are photos available of his dead carcass someplace on social media but I did not search for them as I do not know if that would be allowed here.

Wow, big news.  Although if it wasn't reported on RT.com or the official website of the President of the Russian Federation then it can't possibly be true. ;D

Welcome to RWD.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: bagalia on January 20, 2015, 10:19:34 PM
Ooops, sorry. That was last years dead Russian general.

The one from yesterday is Peter G. Pavlov.
Major General of the RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES. Operational management of the armed forces (so it is said).
He can be seen in his current state on the facebook upper page of Alexander Gladky.

http://www.facebook.com/alexandr.gladky.9

You need to log into facebook first. I need to say that Alexander is a partisan with the group named "Shadows". These are not very nice people. They do not take prisoners. They assassinate. At various parts of his page there are rather graphic pictures and descriptions (all in Russian).

Edit: And this article in Russian
http://censor.net.ua/photo_news/320659/za_volnovahu_gruppa_ukrainskih_partizan_teni_unichtojila_generalmayiora_vs_rf_petra_pavlova_foto_18
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 21, 2015, 12:00:47 AM
This would explain the recent spate of bombings in Kharkiv:
http://www.nrcu.gov.ua/en/148/587633/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 21, 2015, 12:52:57 AM
The one from yesterday is Peter G. Pavlov.
Major General of the RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES. Operational management of the armed forces (so it is said).
He can be seen in his current state on the facebook upper page of Alexander Gladky.

http://censor.net.ua/photo_news/320659/za_volnovahu_gruppa_ukrainskih_partizan_teni_unichtojila_generalmayiora_vs_rf_petra_pavlova_foto_18


And yet another Russian soldier (this time a Gerneal)on vacation that happened to get lost and wander into a war zone.

 They must not teach map reading to the armed forces in the land of the Muskovi.  :wallbash:

 Good! More Cargo 200 for worm food.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 21, 2015, 09:12:19 PM
From the beginning of the conflict in the Donbass in Ukraine killed more than 6,300 Russian soldiers - Vasiliev


Russian human rights activist Elena Vasileva in an interview with TSN told as a matter of "cargo-200" of the conflict in the Donbas. According to that track extras groups ("Load-200 from Ukraine to Russia" - Ed), which deals with the fate of the dead and wounded Russian soldiers in Ukraine - a 6280 people. Most of the dead soldiers - a military personnel, although in recent years human rights activists began to consider a total loss.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/z-pochatku-konfliktu-na-donbasi-v-ukrayini-zaginulo-ponad-6300-rosiyskih-viyskovih-vasilyeva-404281.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 21, 2015, 11:42:09 PM
This is a great day for Russia.  They should celebrate it and we who oppose Putin and Russia should own it.  Stop the sugarcoat and speak the truth.  They won and we lost and we will continue to loose until we take the offensive if that is even possible given the tons and tons of aid the West has given.

Do you think Barack will pick the Seahags for racial reasons?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 21, 2015, 11:59:17 PM
This is a great day for Russia.  They should celebrate it and we who oppose Putin and Russia should own it.  Stop the sugarcoat and speak the truth.  They won and we lost and we will continue to loose until we take the offensive if that is even possible given the tons and tons of aid the West has given.

Do you think Barack will pick the Seahags for racial reasons?

LT-- seriously -give it a break. Today is a tragedy for the lives lost-that's it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 22, 2015, 12:22:55 AM
This is a great day for Russia.  They should celebrate it and we who oppose Putin and Russia should own it.  Stop the sugarcoat and speak the truth.  They won and we lost and we will continue to loose until we take the offensive if that is even possible given the tons and tons of aid the West has given.

I don't view it that way at all, LT. I think the Russian military will be holding staff meetings and tactical reviews trying to figure out where it all went wrong.

By all reports several specialized units Bn strength+, plus artillery and rocket units were poured into the Donetsk airport and surrounding area for weeks trying to dislodge the supposedly outgunned undertrained little army from Kiev.

Whoever the Ukrainian field commander is he's a student of the concept of concentrating overpowering firepower into a single objective with limited resources as evidenced by retaking the airport on at least one occasion after being pushed back. Amazing actually considering the resources the Russian regulars were committing to the fight.

No, I think there's a little shiver going down Putin's back right now. If it takes this amount of resources to push the Ukrainians back from one destroyed airport what's it going to be like trying to take the capital Kiev if it comes to it?

Yes, Russian forces have the airport...for now. If the Ukrainian military manages to re-acquire the airport that would be a serious loss of face for Mr. Putin. They may attempt it, we'll see.

What the Donetsk airport has shown the Ukrainian people is that the Russian military machine is not unstoppable and can be held at bay with a determined effort.

Overall the Russian military has lost credibility with the airport battle.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 22, 2015, 12:26:02 AM
I think today was my breaking point with my Russian friends. They saw the Donetsk airport as a great victory. They failed to understand the continuing loss of life in this conflict that has no reason other than for Putin's ego and pocketbook.


So I politely told them good luck and enjoy the dictator you have. I can't see continuing friendships with people that are so blinded they can't see the overall picture and how much this will hurt Russia (and them) in the long run. They were complaining how they couldn't afford food and everything was so expensive but couldn't grasp the connection between Putin's actions and the direct effect on their lives. They still believe there are no Russian troops in Ukraine and it is all just rebels fighting Ukraine with just a "little help" from Mother Russia.


Based on some of the things i read ,if accurate, would qualify as war crimes. I think it is time to start playing this card and put Russian and Putler on notice. Time for the US to get some balls and make sure Ukraine has at a minimum the defensive weapons they need.


It may seem like an extreme action to terminate these friendships but they are truly possessed by the same disease the seems to affect Doll. I have been on this board since 2006. Doll used to seem pretty normal but it is like she has "Gold Fever" or something else afflicting her and so many other Russians. I hate war but sometimes you have no option but to wage it. What Putler did was not even remotely necessary at all and was a totally made-up crisis. When you can control the media like he does then you can control the narrative. Where I am disappointed is my Russian friends don't even bother to look past the propaganda of PNN (Putin News Networks) aka CNN in the US.


At this point I will be calling my congressmen every day to voice my opinion about needing to help Ukraine against the Russian invasion. Time to stop Putler ASAP and with extreme prejudice. Putin can go eff himself with his olive branch in one hand the and Grad launcher in the other. At this point it is about time to exact retribution against Russia in any way we can. If the Russian people aren't part of the solution then they are part of the problem just like the normal Germans were complicit in Hitler's actions and the moderate Muslims with the extremists.


"Slava Ukraini" - [/color][/size]Geroyam slava!"[/color]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 22, 2015, 12:38:02 AM
Great posts to both Brass and Taz.  Taz a very emotional and real post there; I agree it's time to cut loose the dead weight of "friends" who don't respect the sovereignty of Ukraine and simple human aspirations to self-determine their future.  I also agree that Putin and his senior officers should be captured and held for trial for war crimes, just like that genocidal maniac Slobodon Milosovich was.  Sure go ahead and laugh pro-Putler crowd, but his day is coming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 22, 2015, 01:03:05 AM
I know only a very small portion of you have seen combat and I hope the rest of you never will. I have never done, or been ordered to do, anything like what the Russians are doing in Ukraine. While war is truly hell, there are certain rules that define how war should be waged. Russia is in violation of so many of these it just crazy.


While I had the "luxury" of being above the fray so to speak, I was always a big, huge target until we could take out the SAMs. Still I was often low enough I could see the carnage, and even worse, smell it. Do you have any idea how bad burning flesh smells once it has just been seared by rocket fire? Grad launchers are pretty indiscriminate weapons compared to many. While you can launch 1 or 2 at a time, you just launch a barrage and hope to destroy everything in a pretty large area. It isn't like you try and take out just one thing, you wipe out everything around that one thing too.


Russia is obviously launching from civilian areas using Grad, mortars, etc. This is in clear violation of international laws. Not surprising though since Putler violated international law to invade Ukraine anyway. I have discussed this with my children so they understand it. One is in the service now, one in a delayed entry and one going to the academy. They are all shocked that nothing is being done about this yet we are constantly told that we must abide by the rules.


It is truly time to just launch a few cruise missiles against the Russian troops that don't exist in Ukraine. Nobody will miss them since they were never there and they were just some rebels who bought their Russian emblems at some market in Donetsk...


Time to stand in front of Putler and give him that 1000 yard stare. I know some of you will know the one I mean. Just look past him, like he isn't there and let him know he means nothing to you and then unleash hell on his army. There isn't a better fighting force in the world than the US armed services. If I could surround myself with a few other groups it would be the IDF, SAS and Aussies (with Kiwi of course). Actually I think the IDF could kick Russia's zhopa in E. Ukraine quite easily.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 22, 2015, 01:17:14 AM
Brass & Taz-- you expressed a lot of my thoughts in posts.
Today--all I feel is outrage-Taz--I know you are feeling that too!I was in Ukraine for the majority of last year--and you will know what I mean when I say I understand how Ukrainians feel -the guys there now will attest to how emotional all this is for Ukrainians/
Last year I attended  7 funerals for guys killed in the east- and also a number of memorial services.My emotions-I can hardly describe and today's news bought those days flooding back to me.
Those in life and on forums that think this is some newsreel on TV and nothing to do with them-- simply disgust me--Ukrainians are good people and they need our help.We cannot ignore them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 22, 2015, 02:24:16 AM
LT-- seriously -give it a break. Today is a tragedy for the lives lost-that's it.

40 cyborgs dead TODAY. . .

John Schindler, who is no friend of mine, said quoting NATO generals that the Ukrainian soldiers are the best in the world and the Kiev General Staff are the worst.

Own it
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 22, 2015, 02:31:55 AM
After reading the horrific news this morning I took a moment to pray for the dead UA soldiers from the Airport.  May they rest in peace. They truly gave their all for the struggle to drive the invaders out and preserve Ukraine.

 From what I've been told many are from the Cherkassy oblast where I am.

 Слава Героям!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 22, 2015, 02:45:44 AM
After reading the horrific news this morning I took a moment to pray for the dead UA soldiers from the Airport.

They were dead a few days ago but guys here are fed with Ukrainian propaganda so their reaction is lagged.

I hope the last events force Kiev to real negotiations with rebels instead of indulging to party of war.  Still Moscow support the idea of Donbass as part of  Ukraine under certain conditions. However time is running out, extension of war will lead to final breakup of Donbass from Ukraine. May be already it is impossible, too many civilians were killed by Ukrainian artillery in last days.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 22, 2015, 03:41:05 AM
Time is running out.  Better to negotiate with these people . . . maybe we will have peace. . . .maybe
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 22, 2015, 04:07:08 AM
No Quarters, Asked or Given!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 22, 2015, 04:29:18 AM
They were dead a few days ago but guys here are fed with Ukrainian propaganda so their reaction is lagged.

I hope the last events force Kiev to real negotiations with rebels instead of indulging to party of war.  Still Moscow support the idea of Donbass as part of  Ukraine under certain conditions. However time is running out, extension of war will lead to final breakup of Donbass from Ukraine. May be already it is impossible, too many civilians were killed by Ukrainian artillery in last days.
The Donbas IS PART OF UKRAINE  It is Russia that has no business there and have invaded a foreign country-- how thick are you?
Or do you want to try and tell us that " There are no Russian Military in Ukraine"?

The rest of your post--is Russian lies--not Ukrainian.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 22, 2015, 05:49:41 AM
The Donbas IS PART OF UKRAINE  It is Russia that has no business there and have invaded a foreign country-- how thick are you?
If you refuse the negotiations and don't want to talk with rebels you belong to party of war and must share responsibility for dead Ukrainian soldiers and others killed at Donbass.
As for Russia she has business there because Donbass is populated by people (not just some men) who considered themselves as part of Russian people. It's not my claim, it's a fact.
As for invasion in foreign country... should I point you who and where implemented the invasions in foreign countries in the last 20 years? International law must be the same for all countries, otherwise  no sense to discuss this issue.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 22, 2015, 06:03:05 AM

As for Russia she has business there because Donbass is populated by people (not just some men) who considered themselves as part of Russian people. It's not my claim, it's a fact.


Simple solution for those so-called 'people'...
Pack up and emigrate eastwards to that cesspool country across the border!  :cluebat:
That country has a demographics problem so I'm sure they are more than willing to accommodate new immigrants.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 22, 2015, 06:25:05 AM
. .
As for invasion in foreign country... should I point you who and where implemented the invasions in foreign countries in the last 20 years? International law must be the same for all countries, otherwise  no sense to discuss this issue.
Belvis,  asked this question hundreds times here- no answer (just because they know better)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 22, 2015, 06:42:56 AM
They were dead a few days ago but guys here are fed with Ukrainian propaganda so their reaction is lagged.

I hope the last events force Kiev to real negotiations with rebels instead of indulging to party of war.  Still Moscow support the idea of Donbass as part of  Ukraine under certain conditions. However time is running out, extension of war will lead to final breakup of Donbass from Ukraine. May be already it is impossible, too many civilians were killed by Ukrainian artillery in last days.


Why should Moscow get to dictate how Ukraine is structured?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 22, 2015, 06:44:35 AM
If you refuse the negotiations and don't want to talk with rebels you belong to party of war and must share responsibility for dead Ukrainian soldiers and others killed at Donbass.
As for Russia she has business there because Donbass is populated by people (not just some men) who considered themselves as part of Russian people. It's not my claim, it's a fact.
As for invasion in foreign country... should I point you who and where implemented the invasions in foreign countries in the last 20 years? International law must be the same for all countries, otherwise  no sense to discuss this issue.


How can you refer to international law at all, given Crimea?  Russia has zero respect for international law.


The majority of the population of Donbas never considered itself part of the Russian people. 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 22, 2015, 06:46:45 AM
Belvis,  asked this question hundreds times here- no answer (just because they know better)

 evade and deflect from the question..  :rolleyes:  pass the blame on to someone else about another situation..

 Typical when YOU don't want to answer the present question.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 22, 2015, 06:57:33 AM
Belvis, I guess no one wants to negotiate with scum.  Do your worst.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 22, 2015, 07:27:10 AM
So, I guess, if you all don't mind, the Latvians and Poles and Germans will retake Koenigsberg.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 22, 2015, 07:41:31 AM
I strongly urge that all you supporting Ukraine immediately call your lawmakers and tell them to support Ukraine. I have been reading a lot more on the Ukrainian news sites and it seems highly likely that chemical weapons were used in the attack on the Cyborgs (UA soldiers) in the Donetsk airport. They have been trying for months to dislodge them and now they just happen to fall...


The soldiers are exhibiting symptoms of possible exposure to gas. The tremors and leg shakes they are seen having in videos is typically indicative of some sort of nerve agent. So of course Russia will immediately accuse Ukraine of something like this to deflect blame from them.


Parading captured prisoners is against international law and yet again these Russian terrorists have done this. Time to just obliterate all the Russians there. Read the rules regarding treatment of POWs.


http://www.icrc.org/ihl/WebART/375-590006


Time to call this a war and kick Russia's ass for clearly violating the Budapest Memorandum. They have committed acts of war and need to be punished.


All you Russians who support these actions can go back under the rock you crawled out from under. This is not how civilized people act! To support Putin and his war show you have no class, are totally uncultured, and obviously deserve the dictator you worship. I hope the suffering for Russia economically will last many decades. The end for to the Putler regime can't come soon enough.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 22, 2015, 07:48:05 AM
Belvis,  asked this question hundreds times here- no answer (just because they know better)


The invasion of Afghanistan was justified.  The morphing of that war from finding al Queda to restructuring the country was not.  The invasion of Iraq was not justified.  However, neither have anything to do with fomenting war on European soil, which is exactly what Russia did.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 22, 2015, 07:55:40 AM
evade and deflect from the question..  :rolleyes:  pass the blame on to someone else about another situation..

 Typical when YOU don't want to answer the present question.
"Typical ME" doesn't have to answer stupid questions
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 22, 2015, 08:00:22 AM
You're right Doll, you don't have to answer anyone's questions.  And, when they refuse to answer yours, you should not criticize them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 22, 2015, 08:03:12 AM
You're right Doll, you don't have to answer anyone's questions.  And, when they refuse to answer yours, you should not criticize them.

See? It s fair :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 22, 2015, 08:04:19 AM
Not exactly, as you expect your interlocutors to answer your questions, even when you refuse to answer theirs. :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 22, 2015, 08:31:03 AM
I hope the suffering for Russia economically will last many decades. The end for to the Putler regime can't come soon enough.

 :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

It's going to be comical to see Russians carting their rubles around in wheelbarrows, borrowing money from banks at loan shark interest rates, hoarding Ikea furniture to preserve value, and having to use beetroot because they can no longer afford imported lipsticks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 22, 2015, 09:03:50 AM
Russia- a state sponsor of Terror?



This is very good article.

 As France and Europe mourned and condemned the senseless terrorism in Paris, the European Parliament only a few days later, in a tough resolution on Ukraine, refused to describe the Russian-sponsored separatist enclaves in eastern Ukraine as “terrorist.” Why the double standards? Promoting terrorism EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini’s proposal to the EU to return to business with Russia and not only ignore its state-backed terrorist campaign but even its hybrid war was rejected by member states. US Army Gen. Martin E. Dempsey has declared that the threat of Russian aggression and terrorism in Europe are growing. After all, the arrest of five Russian citizens in France on January 20th on terrorism charges showed how futile it is to try and sanitise developments in one part of Europe and separate them from those in another.

 For much more information read the article.

http://neweasterneurope.eu/art...sponsor-of-terrorism
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 22, 2015, 09:16:38 AM
For me this has been a very divisive conflict to say the least. In general I had much closer ties to Russia than I did to Ukraine for reasons I won't discuss in an open forum. I had worked and done much more in Russia. My ties extend all the way back several decades now.


So when I see so many Russians adopt the same mindset as "Holocaust deniers" it really saddens me. Once again Russian is killing Ukrainians for no reason. First it was Stalin with the Holodomor and the mass starvation of Ukrainians which he and Russia denied for many decades. I can see Putler's response "Nyet, no Ukrainians are being starved in Ukraine. We give them all the food they want (as long as it is only one slice of bread)." Stalin was a genocidal maniac and Putin is at a minimum a maniac and possibly a genocidal one at that. Thousands of Ukrainians have already died because of him. He has their blood on his hands and only God knows how many journalists' blood as well.



So now it is clearly time to support the Ukrainians in the conflict. I watched Yanukovich's Russian snipers gun down people in Kiev. Yanukovich was a Russian puppet so all the people that died at Maidan was the first blood on his hands.


While I don't want to see Russia win this war and be rewarded for their bad behavior I would seriously consider a different strategy as well. I would encourage Ukraine to adopt a "poison pill" strategy similar to what corporations do when confronted with a hostile takeover. I am sure there are many ways that Ukraine can drive up the overall cost to Russia so that they will really regret this invasion. I am in favor of even more aggressive sanctions and punishing Russia financial. Cripple their economy and let the propagandists suffer as they cart wheelbarrows of rubles to the store to buy bread.


We live in a civilized world and there is no place for this type of conduct from what was supposedly a leading economic power. It is obviously a war now and the world needs to recognize. The US and England need to stand up for their promises in the  Budapest Memorandum.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 22, 2015, 09:23:03 AM
If you refuse the negotiations and don't want to talk with rebels you belong to party of war and must share responsibility for dead Ukrainian soldiers and others killed at Donbass.
As for Russia she has business there because Donbass is populated by people (not just some men) who considered themselves as part of Russian people. It's not my claim, it's a fact.
As for invasion in foreign country... should I point you who and where implemented the invasions in foreign countries in the last 20 years? International law must be the same for all countries, otherwise  no sense to discuss this issue.

Belvis, the stupidity and ignorance of the Russians and pro-Russian mindslaves have no limits! First, to enlighten your dim awareness of reality, the rebels are actually moskali and mercenaries, led tactically by the Russian (morphing into murderous Soviet Red Army 2.0) Army and GRU, directed strategically by one man, Tsar Vladimir. There are no true Ukrainian rebels with whom to negotiate. If there had been, without the muscovite invasion, the 'rebels' would have been defeated this summer by the Ukrainian Army and its associated volunteers (who are not being paid $2000 to $4000 per month as are the muscovite mercenaries). Secondly, muscovites are committing war crime after war crime in the Donbass theater of operations. Eventually they will pay for their evil atrocities. Fair negotiations are impossible with the barbaric neo-fascists that the Putin-led, and Stalin-inspired, muscovites have become. The civilized world is nauseated by the actions and lies of the RF and its puppet nations and sympathizers.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 22, 2015, 10:05:18 AM
Time to stand in front of Putler and give him that 1000 yard stare. I know some of you will know the one I mean. Just look past him, like he isn't there and let him know he means nothing to you and then unleash hell on his army. There isn't a better fighting force in the world than the US armed services. If I could surround myself with a few other groups it would be the IDF, SAS and Aussies (with Kiwi of course). Actually I think the IDF could kick Russia's zhopa in E. Ukraine quite easily.

IDF could probably ruin Putler's day by themselves but they are so far away.  I've heard rumors thought that they want to help Ukraine out.  The largest Jewish center in the World is in Dnipropetrovsk and they know that Putler's propaganda is all lies.  SAS were long regarded as the best special forces in the World.  I don't want to start any arguments but the title for number one may have passed to Seal Team 6 with all their recent success's.  Either way they would be a huge asset to any coalition.  Aussies of course welcome.

I think the Poles are likely to give the most immediate assistance as they have the most to lose.  I won't be surprised that if invited they enforce a no-fly zone over W. Ukraine and Kiev and other major cities to keep the Russians far away from those areas should the Russians launch a total invasion of E. Ukraine.  Germany might be hesitant for obvious reasons however they have the most potent Army in the area closest to Ukraine.  Czech Republic would likely help out any way they could.  If the EU and Nato don't take leadership after an all-out invasion of Ukraine it would certainly be hoped that these neighboring countries would simply do what they could.  Now this is all speculation still however there is no doubt what Putin's real intentions have been all along.  His economy getting crushed may stop him or it may cause him to proceed because he's mad like a hornet's nest is after being disturbed.  Hard to know how rational the man still is and how far his insanity has progressed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 22, 2015, 10:20:37 AM
You said  I didn't have compassion. Show me. I just said I didn't care what she thought about me.

And she certainly does not care about you! Here's why she hates the muscovite invaders and those who sympathize with and support them:

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/kremlin-backed-separatists-rain-death-down-on-debaltseve-377923.html

Debaltseve, a small town of, formerly, before the war, 35,000 population, is the town my fiancee was born and raised in. Despite growing up in the Soviet era, she has happy memories of her childhood there. The Eurasian monster fascist invaders from muscovy are obliterating the scene of her happy youthful years. May they all rot in hell after extremely painful deaths!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 22, 2015, 10:30:09 AM
Why should Moscow get to dictate how Ukraine is structured?

You can't talk about the dictate to independent state by definition. But something must be changed and federalization is one of the solutions that will be able to to change the stagnation of Ukraine.  Maidan in each 10 years is not the best recipe to move forward. If they don't want federalization, then they have to deal with the present situation, that's the choice of political elite which could be even profitable for them.

How can you refer to international law at all, given Crimea?  Russia has zero respect for international law.

I refer not to international law but to de facto demolition of international laws. And not Russia has started it.

The majority of the population of Donbas never considered itself part of the Russian people. 

If you're right Ukrainian army will have no trouble to subdue Donbass militia. Militia can't fight without local support.  Though to be more accurate I would change Russian people for "Russian world" term.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 22, 2015, 10:38:57 AM
First, to enlighten your dim awareness of reality, the rebels are actually moskali and mercenaries, led tactically by the Russian (morphing into murderous Soviet Red Army 2.0) Army and GRU, directed strategically by one man, Tsar Vladimir. There are no true Ukrainian rebels with whom to negotiate.

As I see you're in complete darkness about situation there though think the opposite. Then you'll be always supprised by development of the conflict, just watch.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 22, 2015, 10:47:47 AM
You can't talk about the dictate to independent state by definition. But something must be changed and federalization is one of the solutions that will be able to to change the stagnation of Ukraine.  Maidan in each 10 years is not the best recipe to move forward. If they don't want federalization, then they have to deal with the present situation, that's the choice of political elite which could be even profitable for them.
Federalization is not a solution for Ukraine.  Let the occupied territory go.  Russia doesn't want it.  It can be independent, with no international recognition.
Quote
I refer not to international law but to de facto demolition of international
laws. And not Russia has started it.
So not respecting international law is the solution?  Most EU countries do, in fact, adhere to international law. 
Quote
If you're right Ukrainian army will have no trouble to subdue Donbass militia. Militia can't fight without local support.  Though to be more accurate I would change Russian people for "Russian world" term.
If they were not supported by paid mercenaries, and equipment provided (and paid for) by the Russian government, this conflict would have been over long ago.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 22, 2015, 10:48:27 AM
So, I guess, if you all don't mind, the Latvians and Poles and Germans will retake Koenigsberg.

Go ahead. Will you be with them  in tank in front line battalion?  :D
To be more serious I do not exclude such turn if locals of Kaliningrad region revolt against Moscow. US will help them for sure (... Kosovo, Syria ...)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 22, 2015, 10:52:58 AM
Belvis, why are you bending over for a 63 year old has been who killed Russians in apartment bombings to get elected President, killed Russians in Chechnya, killed Russians in compartment 9 on the Kursk, killed Russians who stood up for freedom of speech, killed Russians in Georgia and is killing Russians in Ukraine?  Here is another question, the rest of the world is getting richer Blacks, yellows and browns, except Russia is getting poorer?  Is the rest of Russia as this stupid?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 22, 2015, 10:54:27 AM
US Trainers To Deploy To Ukraine

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/army/2015/01/21/ukraine-us-army-russia/22119315/

That'll put both American and Canadian (currently in country) service personnel on the ground in Ukraine in a training capacity. We're getting there. Slowly but surely, we're getting there.

From the article...

..."WASHINGTON — American soldiers will deploy to Ukraine this spring to begin training four companies of the Ukrainian National Guard, the head of US Army Europe Lt. Gen Ben Hodges said during his first visit to Kiev on Wednesday.

The number of troops heading to the Yavoriv Training Area near the city of L'viv — which is about 40 miles from the Polish border — is still being determined, however.

The American training effort comes as part of a US State Department initiative "to assist Ukraine in strengthening its law enforcement capabilities, conduct internal defense, and maintain rule of law" Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. Vanessa Hillman told Defense News."...

This is significant in my opinion. Once established the U.S. can pretty well  increase support as they see fit as Canada is already doing.

Also from the article...

..."In addition to US trainers, Washington is beginning to provide heavier military equipment to the government in Kiev. On Monday, the United States delivered the first prototype of an armored "Kozak" vehicle for use with the Ukrainian border guard, according to the US Embassy there."...

A look at the Kozak is here...

http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/statements/kozak-01202015.html

And a synopsis of U.S. military assistance supplied to Ukraine so far...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/06/04/fact-sheet-us-security-assistance-ukraine

All good reading for those who are interested.

There are stronger calls to assist Ukraine from several quarters in the news this a.m. Maybe, just maybe there's been a subtle shift in how the world views Ukraine's fight for survival today. The battle at Donetsk airport might have done more for Ukraine than we currently are aware of.

I realize there is disappointment and anger over Donetsk but what has to be remembered is tactically/strategically Donetsk is one battle and other than it's becoming a symbolic fight, militarily speaking in and of itself, doesn't effect the immediate overall security of free Ukraine one way or the other.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 22, 2015, 10:57:06 AM
Will they teach them FM 7-7 and the Ranger Handbook?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 22, 2015, 10:58:44 AM
You can't talk about the dictate to independent state by definition. But something must be changed and federalization is one of the solutions that will be able to to change the stagnation of Ukraine.


100% Agree.


Lead by example. Let's start in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 22, 2015, 10:59:26 AM
Federalization is not a solution for Ukraine.  Let the occupied territory go.  Russia doesn't want it.  It can be independent, with no international recognition.
That's one of solutions but only after and if federalization failed.  Mood is changing fast.

  If they were not supported by paid mercenaries, and equipment provided (and paid for) by the Russian government, this conflict would have been over long ago.

May be, may be not. If you remember in February 2014 Dobkin and Kernes have arranged convention of Yugo-Vostok. They obtained no approval from Moscow for revolt against Kiev. But if ... conflict could spread over all Ukraine. So many ifs.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 22, 2015, 11:02:20 AM

100% Agree.


Lead by example. Let's start in Russia.

Already done  :D Do you the official name of Russian state?  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 22, 2015, 11:03:33 AM
Quote
But if ... conflict could spread over all Ukraine. So many ifs.
The only way the conflict will spread is if Russia foments it.  It is not natural, and it is not supported by the majority populations of Southern Ukraine (contrary to what Putin assumed).
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 22, 2015, 11:05:41 AM
Already done  :D Do you the official name of Russian state?  :)


Yes, name only.  ;D


Now, if they could start by obliging those states within Russia that want it, then talk to Ukraine and show them why it is such a good idea.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 22, 2015, 11:06:08 AM
Belvis, why are you bending over for a 63 year old has been who killed Russians in apartment bombings to get elected President, killed Russians in Chechnya, killed Russians in compartment 9 on the Kursk, killed Russians who stood up for freedom of speech, killed Russians in Georgia and is killing Russians in Ukraine?  Here is another question, the rest of the world is getting richer Blacks, yellows and browns, except Russia is getting poorer?  Is the rest of Russia as this stupid?

Have you heard about mysterious Russian soul?  :)
And Russians don't read west media. Because of that they don't know about that they're becoming poorer while Blacks, yellows and browns getting richer  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 22, 2015, 11:12:46 AM
Russia cannot exist without Tyranny.  You did not even bother to refute what I said.  You accepted as fact and said so what.

Well, if me and everyone I care about gets blown up in radioactive dust because your President can't get it up for his gymnast girlfriend, let my dying breathe be one opposing you and your kind.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: bagalia on January 22, 2015, 11:16:43 AM
The airport is not to be mourned really. It was only a symbol. There is nothing there left to hold. Ukraine should have bombed the place flat long ago and saved many lives. It is not really a victory for Russia when you consider the amount of lives it took to regain the tiny spot.

What is more important perhaps is that Ukraine pushed in some 2 kilometers towards Donetsk and might have gone further had the bridge not been bombed. While at this moment there is somewhat of a news blackout as to what is going on, it is known that Ukraine controls much of the surrounding area from the airport and much more than they had before, Spartak among others for example. As I inferred before, it is the area that is important and not so much the airport. Airports are transportation hubs.

The next few days will say much even with the pullback of heavy stuff, if that really happens.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 22, 2015, 11:19:56 AM
There is a rumor that there are still Cyborgs still there isolated, unaccounted for and abandoned.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 22, 2015, 12:25:27 PM
Belvis, Putin's peace offer (strange that Russia would offer peace in a conflict where it has no fight, eh?) was for Russian "peacekeepers" to move in and occupy Ukraine.

No thanks.

As to federalization, Russia is a federation in name only, and you are intelligent enough to know that. Federalization ended in Russia after Beslan. You also know that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 22, 2015, 12:31:29 PM
I refer not to international law but to de facto demolition of international laws. And not Russia has started it.

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 22, 2015, 01:11:15 PM
The only way the conflict will spread is if Russia foments it.  It is not natural, and it is not supported by the majority populations of Southern Ukraine (contrary to what Putin assumed).
No. You are assuming that is what Putin assumed...unless you are able to read his mind or otherwise prove your assertion.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 22, 2015, 02:48:27 PM
That's not what she wrote and you are insinuating things you yourself can't prove.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 22, 2015, 03:09:37 PM
FT, being perhaps the only person on the forum who has worked closely around Mr. Putin, I will repeat these two key points. You think them to be an oversimplification, but they are most certain not. I do not think, I do not believe, and it is not my opinion. I know.

- Mr. Putin has never accepted the independence of Ukraine. In his mind, the birth of Rus and the Kievan Rus, means that forever, and forever, and forever that Russia and Ukraine are ONE. It just so happens that the modern day capital is in Moscow, not Kyiv. There are many Russians, likely a vast majority, who share this view.

- For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine. Russia by herself cannot be a formidable economic union. Russia and Belarus are not a formidable economic union. Russia, Belarus and sparsely populated and underdeveloped Kazakhstan are not a formidable economic union. The addition of the small nation of Armenia has not made Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan into a formidable economic union.

I will repeat this until it sinks in: For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine. Take a look at the map; look at the population figures, look at the total area of farmland, look at the education of the average citizen. When you look at a map of Europe, pay attention to how much of that is Ukraine. Then stop and think of what that means if he loses Ukraine to Europe.

Now, once again: For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine.

Bo is absolutely correct.

Mr. Putin does not want a sliver, a region, or just a land bridge. He does not need low educated coal miners in the East. No, in fact, hell no!, because in order for the Eurasian Union to succeed, he needs Ukraine.

He tried influencing via backdoor diplomacy with vassals. That had mixed results at best: two revolutions, the last one in which he had to sweep in and rescue his bastard stepchild Yanukovich.

Mr. Putin is no fool--he is not in the mood to try the vassal approach yet another time, unless that is all he is allowed.

For the Eurasian Union to succeed, he needs Ukraine, and as long as the West does nothing he is coming for it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Hammer2722 on January 22, 2015, 03:34:28 PM
FT, being perhaps the only person on the forum who has worked closely around Mr. Putin, I will repeat these two key points. You think them to be an oversimplification, but they are most certain not. I do not think, I do not believe, and it is not my opinion. I know.

- Mr. Putin has never accepted the independence of Ukraine. In his mind, the birth of Rus and they Kievan Rus, means that forever, and forever, and forever that Russia and Ukraine are ONE. It just so happens that the modern day capital is in Moscow, not Kyiv. There are many Russians, likely a vast majority, who share this view.

- For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine. Russia by herself cannot be a formidable economic union. Russia and Belarus are not a formidable economic union. Russia, Belarus and the sparsely populated and underdeveloped Kazakhstan are not a formidable economic union. The addition of the small nation of Armenia has not made Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan into a formidable economic union.

I will repeat this until it sinks in: For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine. Take a look at the map, look at the population figures, look at the total area of farmland, look at the education of the average citizen. When you look at a map of Europe, pay attention to how much of that is Ukraine. Then stop and think of what that means if he loses Ukraine to Europe.

Now, once again: For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine.

Bo is absolutely correct.

Mr. Putin does not see a sliver, or just a land bridge. He does not need low educated coal miners in the East. No, in fact, hell no!, because in order for the Eurasian Union to succeed, he needs Ukraine.

And, as long as the West does nothing, he is coming for it.

 :applaud: :thumbsup:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 22, 2015, 03:35:59 PM
Thanks Hammer.

Note: I added a couple of sentences to the above post. They are worth reading, in my opinion.  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 22, 2015, 03:41:06 PM
Great post Mendy! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 Too bad it'll pass over the heads of the ones that need it most.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Patagonie on January 22, 2015, 03:43:08 PM
Federalization is not a solution for Ukraine.  Let the occupied territory go.  Russia doesn't want it.  It can be independent, with no international recognition.So not respecting international law is the solution?  Most EU countries do, in fact, adhere to international law.  If they were not supported by paid mercenaries, and equipment provided (and paid for) by the Russian government, this conflict would have been over long ago.
+3
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 22, 2015, 03:43:37 PM
Belvis, Putin's peace offer (strange that Russia would offer peace in a conflict where it has no fight, eh?) was for Russian "peacekeepers" to move in and occupy Ukraine.

No thanks.
By other words you casted your vote for war.  Fortunately this is not a polling, and I have reasons to believe the peace talks will be resumed soon.
I would like to see the reference where Putin or Lavrov voices plans to move in Ukraine  with peacekeeper force as a part of current settlement. World leaders are trying desperately to find clues to Putin's intentions but some jornalists know them already  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 22, 2015, 03:48:52 PM
By other words you casted your vote for war.



Russia is at war, with Ukraine and it's an aggressive war, it is waged by Russia and it is a crime against peace.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Patagonie on January 22, 2015, 03:51:41 PM
Very interesting post Mendy, i love your insight
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 22, 2015, 03:52:36 PM
By other words you casted your vote for war.  Fortunately this is not a polling, and I have reasons to believe the peace talks will be resumed soon.
I would like to see the reference where Putin or Lavrov voices plans to move in Ukraine  with peacekeeper force as a part of current settlement. World leaders are trying desperately to find clues to Putin's intentions but some jornalists know them already  :)

Putin doesn't want peackeepers in Ukraine.  Unless, of course, they are Russian peacekeepers currently "vacationing" in Donbas.
 
I think peacekeepers would be a good idea, provided they are not from Russia.   But, it won't happen because there is no upside to Russia to allow peackeepers.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 22, 2015, 04:01:05 PM
Swedish,Finnish and Georgian military volunteers are now fighting in Ukraine after joining the Azov battalion...they believe Putler has to be stopped in Ukraine,or he'll advance into other countries.

The far- right is growing in power in Ukraine as the Azov battalion,many of whom are far-right, are becoming heroes in Ukraine for their deeds against the pro-Russian separatists/Russians.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 22, 2015, 04:17:05 PM
By other words you casted your vote for war.  Fortunately this is not a polling, and I have reasons to believe the peace talks will be resumed soon.
I would like to see the reference where Putin or Lavrov voices plans to move in Ukraine  with peacekeeper force as a part of current settlement. World leaders are trying desperately to find clues to Putin's intentions but some jornalists know them already  :)
Mendy has none
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 22, 2015, 04:21:18 PM
By other words you casted your vote for war.  Fortunately this is not a polling, and I have reasons to believe the peace talks will be resumed soon.
I would like to see the reference where Putin or Lavrov voices plans to move in Ukraine  with peacekeeper force as a part of current settlement. World leaders are trying desperately to find clues to Putin's intentions but some jornalists know them already  :)

War with the west is inevitable if Putin/Russia continues down the path he/they're currently on.

Putin's intentions are no mystery. They are the same intentions every jingoistic warmonger has had throughout history. Putin likes the idea of military strength and using that military strength. He's manipulated the Russian population into supporting his agenda then using that agenda to justify his aggression towards neighboring countries.

Putin's agenda right now is Ukraine. In [edited to read 07/08] it was Georgia.

Putin's "peacekeepers" are already in Ukraine. They're the terrorists currently using t-72's, Grad rocket launchers, artillery chemical/biological warfare against anything and anyone who gets in their way civilian or otherwise.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 22, 2015, 04:55:34 PM
Translation of Russian analyst Andrey Ilarionov's analysis of Putin's strategy in Ukraine.  Ilarionov is a former economic advisor to Putin.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/22/russian-analyst-illarionov-discusses-putins-plans-for-ukraine/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/22/russian-analyst-illarionov-discusses-putins-plans-for-ukraine/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 22, 2015, 05:09:40 PM
Translation of Russian analyst Andrey Ilarionov's analysis of Putin's strategy in Ukraine.  Ilarionov is a former economic advisor to Putin.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/22/russian-analyst-illarionov-discusses-putins-plans-for-ukraine/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/22/russian-analyst-illarionov-discusses-putins-plans-for-ukraine/)

Do a internet search and you will find 4/5 serious pieces.
His insight is the most interesting of all observers-- and I think the source of a lot of other articles. His thoughts put into perspective the entire pre-planned behaviour of Russia and Putin-- and makes a mockery of the Kremlin propaganda lies.
Worth noting-- he wrote that Russia is attempting to implement a plan made as far back as 2008(2005?)
This is effectively--inside knowledge of intent-- probably as close as most of us will get.

Particularly important is that he makes the connection between Government,economic situation and how the invasion force is designed to place pressure on both--and why.
Some on the forum want to nit pick on individual issues-- read this and think about how it all fits together--it is a very good explanation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 22, 2015, 06:15:59 PM
In the middle of this link is another link to help save the Warthog. This would be an extremely effective weapon against the Ukrainian Rebels. If the US doesn't want to keep flying them, give them to Ukraine. They'll do a very effective job slicing and dicing Russian tanks.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/21/legendary-10-warthog-sends-isis-fleeing-even-as-it-faces-pentagon-cuts/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 22, 2015, 07:16:13 PM
As I see you're in complete darkness about situation there though think the opposite. Then you'll be always supprised by development of the conflict, just watch.

"Complete darkness"? I live in Ukraine, you pro-Russian ignoramus!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 22, 2015, 08:58:13 PM
FT, being perhaps the only person on the forum who has worked closely around Mr. Putin, I will repeat these two key points. You think them to be an oversimplification, but they are most certain not. I do not think, I do not believe, and it is not my opinion. I know.

 


Hey mendeleyev...I enjoy reading your work, so no offense to you personally, but I  am very skeptical of anybody who says they know for sure all of what is behind this crisis.  There are experts on the news nightly who say they 'know' and then something they  didn't expect happens. 




- For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine. Russia by herself cannot be a formidable economic union. Russia and Belarus are not a formidable economic union. Russia, Belarus and sparsely populated and underdeveloped Kazakhstan are not a formidable economic union. The addition of the small nation of Armenia has not made Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan into a formidable economic union.

I will repeat this until it sinks in: For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine. Take a look at the map; look at the population figures, look at the total area of farmland, look at the education of the average citizen. When you look at a map of Europe, pay attention to how much of that is Ukraine. Then stop and think of what that means if he loses Ukraine to Europe.

Now, once again: For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine.

Bo is absolutely correct.

Mr. Putin does not want a sliver, a region, or just a land bridge. He does not need low educated coal miners in the East. No, in fact, hell no!, because in order for the Eurasian Union to succeed, he needs Ukraine.

He tried influencing via backdoor diplomacy with vassals. That had mixed results at best: two revolutions, the last one in which he had to sweep in and rescue his bastard stepchild Yanukovich.

Mr. Putin is no fool--he is not in the mood to try the vassal approach yet another time, unless that is all he is allowed.

For the Eurasian Union to succeed, he needs Ukraine, and as long as the West does nothing he is coming for it.


From your writing it is clear you believe/know that is crisis is all about the Eurasian union.  You have now stated that Russia needs all of Ukraine in order for this to work.  I don't think Russia will be able to envelope all of Ukraine, and I think Russia must realize that...of course they could occupy the area, but it would be so counterproductive that I don't believe it is going to happen.    Therefore I think there is something else in play. If Putin wanted all of Ukraine, he would have seen much earlier on that the current plan would not work in terms of the entire Ukraine, and he would have gotten way more aggressive rapidly, while the iron was still relatively hot.  Or perhaps you feel the current plan is working, and will work to take over all of Ukraine as would be necessary for your theory (for lack of a better word) to play out?   
 
I am still holding the end result will be a divided Ukraine, both sides get something and leave it at that...A question that remains is exactly how much is Russia going to take before the cost becomes too high, and the 'holding costs' become too much?


Of course I'm no expert on these matters but what in the bolded logic am I incorrect?


Thanks,
Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 22, 2015, 11:01:08 PM
"Complete darkness"? I live in Ukraine, you pro-Russian ignoramus!


Geriatric dude, I suggest you take some time off of the forum before you end up killing yourself.  High blood pressure isn't a good thing for a man of your age.  Some old dude goes off to Ukraine to get a young woman because he feels like he is 20 years younger and then has the audacity to call someone else ignoramus.  Freaking unbelievable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 22, 2015, 11:05:14 PM

 
From your writing it is clear you believe/know that is crisis is all about the Eurasian union.  You have now stated that Russia needs all of Ukraine in order for this to work.  I don't think Russia will be able to envelope all of Ukraine, and I think Russia must realize that...of course they could occupy the area, but it would be so counterproductive that I don't believe it is going to happen.    Therefore I think there is something else in play. If Putin wanted all of Ukraine, he would have seen much earlier on that the current plan would not work in terms of the entire Ukraine, and he would have gotten way more aggressive rapidly, while the iron was still relatively hot.  Or perhaps you feel the current plan is working, and will work to take over all of Ukraine as would be necessary for your theory (for lack of a better word) to play out?   
 



Thanks,
Fathertime!   


FT, I think Putin is also testing the West.  Seeing how far he can take things and what the retaliatory responses will be.  Similar to a kid trying to figure out how far he can push things
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TheBullRDR on January 22, 2015, 11:31:10 PM
http://www.funker530.com/us-soldiers-armored-vehicles-going-to-ukraine/

Looks like we're getting involved.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on January 23, 2015, 12:02:44 AM
FT, being perhaps the only person on the forum who has worked closely around Mr. Putin, I will repeat these two key points. You think them to be an oversimplification, but they are most certain not. I do not think, I do not believe, and it is not my opinion. I know.

- Mr. Putin has never accepted the independence of Ukraine. In his mind, the birth of Rus and the Kievan Rus, means that forever, and forever, and forever that Russia and Ukraine are ONE. It just so happens that the modern day capital is in Moscow, not Kyiv. There are many Russians, likely a vast majority, who share this view.

- For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine. Russia by herself cannot be a formidable economic union. Russia and Belarus are not a formidable economic union. Russia, Belarus and sparsely populated and underdeveloped Kazakhstan are not a formidable economic union. The addition of the small nation of Armenia has not made Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan into a formidable economic union.

I will repeat this until it sinks in: For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine. Take a look at the map; look at the population figures, look at the total area of farmland, look at the education of the average citizen. When you look at a map of Europe, pay attention to how much of that is Ukraine. Then stop and think of what that means if he loses Ukraine to Europe.

Now, once again: For the Eurasian Union to succeed, it needs Ukraine.

Bo is absolutely correct.

Mr. Putin does not want a sliver, a region, or just a land bridge. He does not need low educated coal miners in the East. No, in fact, hell no!, because in order for the Eurasian Union to succeed, he needs Ukraine.

He tried influencing via backdoor diplomacy with vassals. That had mixed results at best: two revolutions, the last one in which he had to sweep in and rescue his bastard stepchild Yanukovich.

Mr. Putin is no fool--he is not in the mood to try the vassal approach yet another time, unless that is all he is allowed.

For the Eurasian Union to succeed, he needs Ukraine, and as long as the West does nothing he is coming for it.

100% agree mendy top post ,
putin will not ease up unless he is forced too

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 23, 2015, 12:38:29 AM
"Complete darkness"? I live in Ukraine

For this reason you see the conflict through your wife's eyes. I don't think you're able to read fluently through tens of twitters, blogs, agencies, newspapers, analitics to get own opinion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 23, 2015, 12:50:23 AM

For the Eurasian Union to succeed, he needs Ukraine, and as long as the West does nothing he is coming for it.

Mendy, do you think there have already been back channel threats from Putler to Poroshenko along the lines of "Join my little club or else..."

Surely Putler must realise that any Ukrainian president that even publicly contemplates joining that organisation will get lynched by his own population.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 23, 2015, 01:03:16 AM

FT, I think Putin is also testing the West.  Seeing how far he can take things and what the retaliatory responses will be.  Similar to a kid trying to figure out how far he can push things


So far Putin has concluded he can keep pushing. While pretending he's interested in peace talks and a ceasefire, he continue to move his military West and finalizing paperwork on taking parts of Georgia.


Obama pretends to be tough by applying sanctions but does other things that put money in Russia's pocket. Obama lifted sanctions against Iran as part of the "reset" with Russia, and recently completed purchasing over a billion dollars of suspiciously overpriced Russian military hardware for Afghanistan's military. Obama is giving Iran over 12 billion dollars to lure them to the negotiating table to talk about nukes. Don't know if nuke talks will be fruitful but Iran did engage in a military deal with Russia recently. Our tax dollars at work....against us. I'm sure Iran will end up doing what they always do, take the money and pretend to cooperate until they need more money. Maybe Obama can send Putin a few billion dollars to lure him to the peace talk table too? Maybe we can buy Russian military equipment for Ukraine as we did for Afghanistan? Links 1 and 2


Putin is also making friends with some of the worlds worst actors. Besides making deals with China and Iran recently, he scheduled to have, arguably the worst dictator in the world, Kim Jong-Un visit Moscow. Can any good come of this? Link 3. Putin is extremely active for a guy not involved in Ukraine.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/08/russian-helicopters-us-1-billion-afghan-military_n_4408278.html


http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/11/03/russia-delivers-last-of-u-s-bought-helicopters-to-afghan-military/


http://news.yahoo.com/china-welcome-kim-jong-un-visit-moscow-192149710.html


http://www.funker530.com/us-soldiers-armored-vehicles-going-to-ukraine/

Looks like we're getting involved.



What's a few dozen Kozak vehicles going to do against tanks? I know the article states USA is delivering them but they are made in Ukraine. In link below is America's "Security Assurances" to Ukraine. While we've bought over a billion dollars of Russian military equipment over the last few years for Afghanistan and giving 12 billion dollars to Iran to encourage them to talk to us, we are giving Ukraine 23 million in military assistance, some of that is in the form of food. Hopefully Obama gets his priorities straight.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/06/04/fact-sheet-us-security-assistance-ukraine
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 01:59:22 AM
Translation of Russian analyst Andrey Ilarionov's analysis of Putin's strategy in Ukraine.  Ilarionov is a former economic advisor to Putin.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/22/russian-analyst-illarionov-discusses-putins-plans-for-ukraine/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/22/russian-analyst-illarionov-discusses-putins-plans-for-ukraine/)

You cannot read this and NOT conclude that we are already in a world war.  People like jone can no longer deny it.  It is up to people like us to warn the world and punk out wimps like Obama into action.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:04:19 AM
For this reason you see the conflict through your wife's eyes. I don't think you're able to read fluently through tens of twitters, blogs, agencies, newspapers, analitics to get own opinion.

And you are?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:29:51 AM
Every thing written is top notch what is missing is the Middle Eastern component to all of this.  Jay says Obama is working in concert with our allies - namely the Saudis to undercut Russia.  This is false.  Obama and Putin share common Islamic goals for Europe and America.  Obama is going against his own party to prop up Iran - Russia's client state for the past 20 years.  If you look at the instability of that region, there is an Iranian hand.  Iran is the base of the Shia religion where oppressed minorities earn for exclusive rule.  Iran not only destabilizes Israel and the Levant, but they are in Yemen now.  Iran and Russia move along the same axis.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 23, 2015, 02:34:31 AM
Quote
I would like to see the reference where Putin or Lavrov voices plans to move in Ukraine with peacekeeper force as a part of current settlement.

No need to "move in" as you are already there.

Belvis, watching just the Russian news alone will leave you blind. To keep an open mind, I personally monitor all sorts of news sources. Try it sometime. Dmitry Kiselev is a shameless Nazi, and it is sad that he has a job, much less takes up breathing space on the planet.

Do some research on the letter delivered from Putin to Poroshenko, well that is if conducting such a search doesn't get you into trouble. Along with his demands that Ukraine recognize the separatists (but keep funding their regions), he wants Ukraine to agree to Russian peacekeepers and military hardware, just like in Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, for example.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 23, 2015, 02:59:40 AM
Belvis, watching just the Russian news alone will leave you blind. To keep an open mind, I personally monitor all sorts of news sources. Try it sometime. Dmitry Kiselev is a shameless Nazi, and it is sad that he has a job, much less takes up breathing space on the planet.

Do some research on the letter delivered from Putin to Poroshenko, well that is if conducting such a search doesn't get you into trouble. Along with his demands that Ukraine recognize the separatists (but keep funding their regions), he wants Ukraine to agree to Russian peacekeepers and military hardware, just like in Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, for example.

I don't watch Kiselev because he provides little information, I prefer to read primary sources. I read more Ukrainian sources than Russian ones but of course not Tymchuk or Lysenko. Ukrainian soldiers and volunteers provide plenty of info in Facebook.

OK, let's get down to business. Can you provide the reference to text of Putin's letter to Poroshenko? I read text in the official body (Российская газета) but see there no words you have attributed to Putin. My direct questions, make a reference in Russian to your claims:
1. Ukraine must recognize the separatists
2. Keep funding their regions
3. Ukraine have  to agree to Russian peacekeepers and military hardware

May bе you mean the other letter to Poroshenko? Not the last one in January 2015?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 23, 2015, 03:11:41 AM
FT, were Mr. Putin to see you walking across a Kremlin courtyard, would he recognize you?  Have covered events at the office/presidential residence in Novo-Ogaryovo?  Have you traveled with Mr. Putin? Asked him questions? Been rebuked by him? Attended church services with him present?

Have you heard him explain his vision of history, the baptism of Prince Vladimir (Kyiv), the significance of the one nation/two branches that began as the KievanRus?

When you have, you can advance beyond the theory stage and then I'll understand that you know something.

Until then, let us review:

- The Eurasian Union cannot survive without Ukraine. Take a look at a map of Europe, and with VP's eyes, imagine what it means if that is part of the Eurasian Union. Now look again, and with VP's eyes, imagine what it would mean if that piece of the map was aligned with Western Europe.

- Mr. Putin has a strong sense of purpose. He has a vision of and believes in the exceptionalism of Russia, and while at times it may seem as a burden, he feels that he is the right man at the right time, to lead Russia while she is surrounded by the enemy West.

Do you understand his determination to establish the Eurasian Union into a viable trading bloc? Can you see and feel the angst inside him when that project is threatened? Do you understand that without it, Russia will always be just a secondary/regional economy?

Like you, I am irritated by Western news anchors who pretend to know his mind; especially those who have never met him, or simply flew in for a brief visit.

If given a piece of Ukraine, no, he will not stop, other than long enough for sanctions to be lifted.

Naturally, he will accept a piece if someone were so stupid to offer, but frankly he'd rather not.

Let me repeat: he'd rather not have a piece of Ukraine, and especially not that piece. Eastern Ukraine means little for the Eurasian trading bloc, other than coal deposits. The real wealth of Ukraine is the heartland, and the educated worker consumers in the West. That is what his Eurasian Union needs.

Rather than accept a piece, he'd rather keep stirring the pot. Having his "peacekeepers" in contested regions would ensure that the EU and NATO would never offer Ukraine a home. It also keeps the unrest alive so that he can fight another day, and enjoy de facto control in the meantime.

What you bolded is indeed logical to you and I. We think with a Western worldview. Mr. Putin does not. He, in the very fiber of his being, views the world via an Eastern mindset. And what you would so longingly believe to be logical, makes no sense to his Eastern way of thinking.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 23, 2015, 03:47:03 AM
Belvis, I will answer you, but must leave for appointments. In the meantime, I'd kindly refer you to the plan President Putin laid out at the end of his Mongolia trip (September 3rd). Sadly, all of his peace proposals have been along the same lines, essentially a rehash over and over of much the same things.

Until he admits that his troops are inside Ukraine, and part of the fighting (like he eventually did regarding Crimea), then his calls for cease fire and pull backs sound hollow.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Изумруд on January 23, 2015, 04:45:58 AM
Translation of Russian analyst Andrey Ilarionov's analysis of Putin's strategy in Ukraine.  Ilarionov is a former economic advisor to Putin.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/22/russian-analyst-illarionov-discusses-putins-plans-for-ukraine/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/22/russian-analyst-illarionov-discusses-putins-plans-for-ukraine/)

Thanks for the link Boe, that's a facinating synopsis of Putin's goals.  I'm not sure I agree with the opinion on the Baltic States; however, the stakes are being raised by the week.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 23, 2015, 04:55:36 AM
I second Belvis- Mendy, until you give us solid links to what Putin wants or thinks, everything what you write here is just YOUR opinion. People on this board want to read what you post but Belvis and I are not buying it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 23, 2015, 04:57:40 AM
Mendeleyev, how do you know what Belvis and I watch? All the infor is open for everybody.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 23, 2015, 05:00:04 AM
Quote
Have you heard him explain his vision of history, the baptism of Prince Vladimir (Kyiv), the significance of the one nation/two branches that began as the KievanRus?
What's another "vision"? He stated the fact.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 23, 2015, 05:35:06 AM
People on this board want to read what you post but Belvis and I are not buying it.

And you think the rest of us are buying that Putinist BS you are spewing out?  :wallbash:

Looks like your Kremlin handlers aren't getting value for the money they're paying you; so far you haven't managed to convert even one single person on this board into a Putinist...  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 23, 2015, 06:06:45 AM
Sleepy, Belvis and I are not "buying" Mendy's personal opinion that he feeds you like facts.
This is what he (Mendy) thinks.
Unlike most of you, I read Department of States daily briefings- none of prove was delivered. Trust me, they have much more power to get this prove than Mendy  :D :D :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 23, 2015, 06:26:38 AM

Until he admits that his troops are inside Ukraine, and part of the fighting (like he eventually did regarding Crimea), then his calls for cease fire and pull backs sound hollow.


He will only do this AFTER he has achieved his goals. Oh yeah, by the way, we did have a few Russian troops in Ukraine. This admission will come after thousands of them have died and he has tried to take over half of Ukraine and fomented unrest in the other half through terrorist acts such as the bombings he is behind already.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 23, 2015, 07:30:09 AM
I wonder how the Kreimlin apologists/propagandists will spin this article.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/01/22/russia-jails-the-proof-it-is-at-war-column/22183051/?




The problem with the truth is that Russia can't hide it forever. The internet helps get all manner of things out into the public domain. It is harder and harder, even with all the Russian trolls, to hide the truth from the rest of the world.


The problem for Putin is if his country new the real truth about his actions he would be out of power very quickly. Like usual the Russian people are being manipulated. Sorry, I should correct myself, I should have said the Russian Sheeple.


Maybe they could have a new declaration of dependence...


We the Sheeple, of the dictatorship of Russia, in order to form and even more obedient and enslaved Russia, do hereby pledge our authority, all personal rights and freedoms, to V. Putin. We do hereby solemnly swear, to never question his divine authority, given to him by the equally corrupt Russian Orthodox church, and to continue licking his boots while begging for any scrap of freedom he might give us. We promise to look the other way as our economy continues to crumble and he continues to reward his oligarch friends by raiding our pension fund to help make them whole for the losses his policies have cost them, It is our sworn duty to not worry about our wretched suffering and the difficulty of buying basic necessities so that they (his enabling oligarchs) might have more money to buy even more caviar and more Mercedes...
[/size]
[/size]I could go on but you get the point.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 09:04:25 AM
I don't watch Kiselev because he provides little information, I prefer to read primary sources. I read more Ukrainian sources than Russian ones but of course not Tymchuk or Lysenko. Ukrainian soldiers and volunteers provide plenty of info in Facebook.

OK, let's get down to business. Can you provide the reference to text of Putin's letter to Poroshenko? I read text in the official body (Российская газета) but see there no words you have attributed to Putin. My direct questions, make a reference in Russian to your claims:
1. Ukraine must recognize the separatists
2. Keep funding their regions
3. Ukraine have  to agree to Russian peacekeepers and military hardware

May bе you mean the other letter to Poroshenko? Not the last one in January 2015?

This coming from the guy who maintains less than 30 Russian soldiers killed in the fighting.   :rolleyes:

Belvis, you come across more and more as a paid (mis) informant.  What are you?  A colonel is the KGB?

When I posted direct newspaper articles from local newspapers indicating Russian soldiers killed, you immediately tried to discredit your own newspapers.   You should be ashamed that your country is not admitting that your own soldiers are getting killed in an undeclared war. 

What type of response will we get from you?  More deflection and more disinformation.  That is what we have learned to expect from your government and your (collective) people.  Is there any wonder that people on here are skeptical of the posts you bring forward?

We know Putin isn't a man enough to tell the truth.  He practices the Big Soviet Lie, with polish.  Nice to see he has an accolade. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 23, 2015, 09:11:02 AM
By other words you casted your vote for war.  Fortunately this is not a polling, and I have reasons to believe the peace talks will be resumed soon.
I would like to see the reference where Putin or Lavrov voices plans to move in Ukraine  with peacekeeper force as a part of current settlement. World leaders are trying desperately to find clues to Putin's intentions but some jornalists know them already  :)


So, you vote for slavery, right?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 23, 2015, 09:21:51 AM

So far Putin has concluded he can keep pushing. While pretending he's interested in peace talks and a ceasefire, he continue to move his military West and finalizing paperwork on taking parts of Georgia.


Obama pretends to be tough by applying sanctions but does other things that put money in Russia's pocket. Obama lifted sanctions against Iran as part of the "reset" with Russia, and recently completed purchasing over a billion dollars of suspiciously overpriced Russian military hardware for Afghanistan's military. Obama is giving Iran over 12 billion dollars to lure them to the negotiating table to talk about nukes. Don't know if nuke talks will be fruitful but Iran did engage in a military deal with Russia recently. Our tax dollars at work....against us. I'm sure Iran will end up doing what they always do, take the money and pretend to cooperate until they need more money. Maybe Obama can send Putin a few billion dollars to lure him to the peace talk table too? Maybe we can buy Russian military equipment for Ukraine as we did for Afghanistan? Links 1 and 2


Putin is also making friends with some of the worlds worst actors. Besides making deals with China and Iran recently, he scheduled to have, arguably the worst dictator in the world, Kim Jong-Un visit Moscow. Can any good come of this? Link 3. Putin is extremely active for a guy not involved in Ukraine.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/08/russian-helicopters-us-1-billion-afghan-military_n_4408278.html


http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/11/03/russia-delivers-last-of-u-s-bought-helicopters-to-afghan-military/


http://news.yahoo.com/china-welcome-kim-jong-un-visit-moscow-192149710.html



What's a few dozen Kozak vehicles going to do against tanks? I know the article states USA is delivering them but they are made in Ukraine. In link below is America's "Security Assurances" to Ukraine. While we've bought over a billion dollars of Russian military equipment over the last few years for Afghanistan and giving 12 billion dollars to Iran to encourage them to talk to us, we are giving Ukraine 23 million in military assistance, some of that is in the form of food. Hopefully Obama gets his priorities straight.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/06/04/fact-sheet-us-security-assistance-ukraine

You cannot keyword this helicopter purchase without seeing that the initial contract was procured back in 2011 before the Ukraine invasion and was then was later cancelled in 2013 because the Russian company was also supplying the Assad regime. There was no pretending to be tough. There is no current spending with Russian companies. Different time frame and not relevant to the current policy towards Russia.

As far as the Kozaks go. I posted to this yesterday here...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg390053#msg390053

No, they're not tanks, however, the U.S. is in the door and that's a start. Considering the current administration in Washington this is a significant step forward and shouldn't be disregarded.

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 09:23:22 AM
War with the west is inevitable if Putin/Russia continues down the path he/they're currently on.

Putin's intentions are no mystery. They are the same intentions every jingoistic warmonger has had throughout history. Putin likes the idea of military strength and using that military strength. He's manipulated the Russian population into supporting his agenda then using that agenda to justify his aggression towards neighboring countries.

Putin's agenda right now is Ukraine. In [edited to read 07/08] it was Georgia.

Putin's "peacekeepers" are already in Ukraine. They're the terrorists currently using t-72's, Grad rocket launchers, artillery chemical/biological warfare against anything and anyone who gets in their way civilian or otherwise.

 :clapping:

Putin is a ruthless dictator who does not really care about peace or borders.  Just look what happened after Neville Chamberlain agreed to give Hitler the Sudenland in 1938.  Hitler promised that would be all but it wasn't.  Soon afterwards Hitler took the rest of Czechoslovakia and soon after that his tanks were rolling into Poland.

Give Putler E. Ukraine and from there he will launch his next offensive against the rest of Ukraine.  Mende can probably post his quotes where he says that Ukraine is not a real country.  In a different post he said that Russian soldiers would hide behind women and children and that the Ukrainians would have to kill the women and children to get to his Russian soldiers (missAmeno posted it once).

His intentions are clear and any talk of "peace" is just a stalling tactic by him and his zombies.  The West needs to wake up now, or the price to remove him from a country that does not belong to him will be even higher.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 23, 2015, 09:24:00 AM

So, you vote for slavery, right?

You're telling now  Ukrainians: guys, you're free to die. Die or be a slave.
I have no objections if you go on war, it's your choice and I respect it. But I feel unkomfortable when you want to observe killing others.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 23, 2015, 09:29:59 AM
What type of response will we get from you?  More deflection and more disinformation.  That is what we have learned to expect from your government and your (collective) people.  Is there any wonder that people on here are skeptical of the posts you bring forward?

I exposed you couple times as being either misinformed or trying to spread fake news. You should not take the offense, I hope we both stay for freedom of speech  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 09:31:49 AM
You're telling now  Ukrainians: guys, you're free to die. Die or be a slave.
I have no objections if you go on war, it's your choice and I respect it. But I feel unkomfortable when you want to observe killing others.

We're not telling them anything.  Poroshenko went to the US Congress to plead for weapons and other assistance because he knows it is better to fight for ones country then to be a slave to the bully to the East.  Your propaganda is not working.  What is the name that Ukrainians have unanimously given to your great leader?  That's right, huiilo.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 23, 2015, 09:34:31 AM
You're telling now  Ukrainians: guys, you're free to die. Die or be a slave.
I have no objections if you go on war, it's your choice and I respect it. But I feel unkomfortable when you want to observe killing others.


LMAO


I'm not telling Ukrainians anything.


They are doing that by themselves, which is scaring many Russians shitless.  ;)


So, I have to agree with Jone, you have to be KGB or a paid misinformant.


Also, how do you manage to get Ukrainian Facebook in Russia? My MIL's brother in Omsk cannot see her niece's page in Kharkiv because it is full of war stuff.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 09:37:42 AM
You sure do.

You observe killing others.  Your country is at war with Ukraine.  Plain and simple.  Yet you sit there and pontificate telling people that their positions are the reasons that Ukrainians are getting killed.   :rolleyes:

No person who is NOT GETTING PAID would sit there and allow his own countrymen to get killed without at least acknowledging that they are there and feel ..... something.  Don't you care for the young Cargo 200 kids coming back across the border and their grieving parents or wives who are told ... nothing.

You have the same mentality of the German people who watched with glee as the Wehrmacht stomped over countries in the early stages of WWII.

(Muzh, I was being facetious when I said KGB.  Hearkening back to Soviet times.  The FSB carries little of the stigma of its predecessor.  But I bet it catches up in the next couple of years.)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 23, 2015, 09:39:10 AM

 
 

Also, how do you manage to get Ukrainian Facebook in Russia? 
What do you mean- how? Log in and read it
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 09:40:34 AM
What do you mean- how? Log in and read it


He is saying it is blocked by Russia.  So, she can't log in and read it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 23, 2015, 09:41:35 AM

(Muzh, I was being facetious when I said KGB.  Hearkening back to Soviet times.  The FSB carries little of the stigma of its predecessor.  But I bet it catches up in the next couple of years.)


Oh, but the KGB is very much alive today in Russia.


Actually, the FSB is dedifferentiating (look up the term) into the NKVD.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 23, 2015, 09:44:10 AM
What do you mean- how? Log in and read it


The Uncle in Omsk CANNOT see his niece's page from Kharkiv. Period.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 09:48:54 AM
 :rolleyes:

Muzh, there is a reason that Doll is on ignore on my account.  Everyone else, here on the forum understands that in order to control the populace, Russia is blocking Facebook content.  It has been rehashed a number of times.  Russia is blocking any information coming from Ukraine that is not filtered.  I guess that Doll's lack of understanding that information is being blocked is a great indicator at her level of understanding of the world around her.

And Belvis claims that information is being disseminated freely.  That is the reason I believe him to be a paid disinformation specialist.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 10:28:44 AM
:clapping:

Putin is a ruthless dictator who does not really care about peace or borders.  Just look what happened after Neville Chamberlain agreed to give Hitler the Sudenland in 1938.  Hitler promised that would be all but it wasn't.  Soon afterwards Hitler took the rest of Czechoslovakia and soon after that his tanks were rolling into Poland.

Give Putler E. Ukraine and from there he will launch his next offensive against the rest of Ukraine.  Mende can probably post his quotes where he says that Ukraine is not a real country.  In a different post he said that Russian soldiers would hide behind women and children and that the Ukrainians would have to kill the women and children to get to his Russian soldiers (missAmeno posted it once).

His intentions are clear and any talk of "peace" is just a stalling tactic by him and his zombies.  The West needs to wake up now, or the price to remove him from a country that does not belong to him will be even higher.


Egads, the worse things get for Ukraine the more hysterical gets the rhetoric. What are you guys going to do when Ukraine finally loses the East?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 23, 2015, 10:32:19 AM
Here's a little Psy Ops 101 for those that are interested...

Nato colonel sheds light on Russia 'psy-ops'

Aivar Jaeski knows the Russian military from the inside.

A conscript to the Soviet army in his early life, the Estonian-born Nato colonel recalls being stunned how "little training and specialisation" it had to offer its recruits.

Jaeski has co-ordinated info-ops for Nato in Afghanistan and Iraq (Photo: StratcomCoe)

"Basically we were used as cheap labour. I came back from the Soviet army as a pacifist," he told EUobserver earlier this month in Riga, where he is now deputy director of Nato Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, or Stratcom.

The centre recently carried out a study of Russia's propaganda war on Ukraine.

Jaeski, who also oversaw Nato information operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, described Moscow's campaign as “a psy-op” which uses “very carefully selected messages for targeted audiences in Ukraine, inside Russia, and in the West”.

He said its main tools are false “facts” and images, as well as glorification of Russian military power and political leadership.

He added that “everything we've seen so far is driven by the statement made by [Russian leader Vladimir] Putin in 2005, that the ‘greatest geopolitical catastrophe' of the century was the collapse of the Soviet Union”.

He noted that Russia already used psy-ops in its invasion of Georgia in 2008.

It is part of what Russian general Valery Gerasimov, the chief of the Russian general staff, later called “hybrid warfare”.

But a comparison between the open assault on Georgia ad the covert attack on Ukraine using “little green men” - Russian soldiers in unmarked uniforms who occupied Crimea prior to its annexation - indicates that Russia has invested effort and money to make its tactics increasingly sophisticated.

Gerasimov introduced the concept of keeping blurred lines between a state of war and peace, between professional soldiers (whether in uniform or not) and armed civilians.

The Russian general also put more emphasis on winning the “media war” alongside any military gains.

The advance of social media, and its use of images which go viral without any background checks, in the past few years has helped the Russian side.

Fake images, which have been photoshopped or copy-pasted from reports on other war zones or even from movies, purporting to show atrocities committed by the Ukrainian army abound on Twitter, Facebook, or its Russian equiavlent VKontakte.

"Perhaps the most impressive tool in psy-ops is the image of a crying child. There are some theories which say that the Americans lost the Vietnam war because of the [image of a] crying naked child after a napalm strike," Jaevski says, referring to one of the iconic pictures of the 1960s conflict.

The Ukraine conflict also has its ‘napalm child’ - a picture of a crying baby with a swastika carved onto his arm.

It was posted on the social media page of "Antimaidan" - a popular pro-Kremlin group - amid allegations that Ukrainian maternity workers did it to humiliate the mother, a woman from the Donbas region in east Ukraine and the widow of a pro-Russia fighter.

"It's been three months, and the scar is still visible," the caption reads.

In fact, the picture is an internet stock photo.

It also appears in an article posted in 2008 on the US website Popsugar, but without the swastika, which was photoshopped in at a later stage.

The website StopFake is full of such examples.

It also tries to expose Russian state TV lies, such as its use of actors to play various roles in its reports of Ukrainian “war crimes”, with the same faces appearing now as an activist, later as a widow, then the mother of a deceased soldier, a refugee, or an anti-Maidan participant."...

http://euobserver.com/foreign/127174

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 23, 2015, 10:40:36 AM

He is saying it is blocked by Russia.  So, she can't log in and read it.
It is not.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on January 23, 2015, 10:49:26 AM
Quote
DAVOS, Switzerland (AP) — Russian Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov, speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, on Friday warned the West against trying to topple President Vladimir Putin and said that Russians are ready to sacrifice their wealth in Putin's support...

Shuvalov, who is believed to be one of the richest men in the government, said that what he considers the West's attempts to oust Putin will only unite the nation further.

"When a Russian feels any foreign pressure, he will never give up his leader," Shuvalov said. "Never. We will survive any hardship in the country — eat less food, use less electricity."

Shuvalov's comments triggered pithy remarks on Russia social media including an opposition activist who posted photos of Shuvalov's Moscow, London and Austria homes to illustrate where the deputy prime minister would experience the hardships he described...

Shuvalov said Russia should focus on cushioning the economic fall through reforms and supporting the financial system. "It is going to get worse and the anti-crisis plan should be aimed at adapting to the hard landing," he said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150123/eu--russia-economy-2fbca2ea04.html

Shuvalov won't be missing any meals.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 10:53:26 AM
It is not.


You cannot know that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 10:58:56 AM
Steamer,

If the shooting down of a jet airliner did not wake the rest of the world to the atrocities occurring in Eastern Ukraine, I doubt anything else will.  While Ukraine will continue to gut it out, it does not have the resources to maintain a conflict against Russia.

End result is that Russia will take what it wants.

Russia has cemented its status as a pariah nation and will have to permanently deal with the consequences.  In the Moscow Times today was a poll that stated that more Russian people are comfortable, now, with Soviet style government than the idea of a democratically enabled government.  The populations, too, will have to live with the consequences of such a mindset.

I expect that we have seen the last of free Russia in our lifetimes.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 23, 2015, 11:05:46 AM

He is saying it is blocked by Russia.  So, she can't log in and read it.

It is not.

Facebook to be blocked in Russia

..."MOSCOW, September 19. (Itar-Tass) – Facebook has been added to the Russian blacklist of prohibited websites, said Vladimir Pikov, representative of telecom watchdog Roscomnadzor. This means that if in three days’ time the social network will not remove information which is prohibited in Russia, national internet service providers will have to block access to the social network, rendering the website unreachable to Russian internet users."...

http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/700985

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 11:11:57 AM

Egads, the worse things get for Ukraine the more hysterical gets the rhetoric. What are you guys going to do when Ukraine finally loses the East?


What makes you believe Ukraine will lose the East?  Russia doesn't want Donbas.  The region can't go it alone.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 23, 2015, 11:14:31 AM

You cannot know that.
My son lives in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 11:15:35 AM
My son lives in Russia.


So?  Has he tried to log into Muzh's niece's facebook page?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 11:18:42 AM
This is from the facebook page of one of my young relatives -


Россия - гарант территориальной целостности Украины по Будапештскому меморандуму, не говоря о том, что она - постоянный член совета безопасности ООН. Что мы имеем? Нарушение международного права, международных договоров, оккупацию Крыма, ввод российских войск на территорию Украины и спонсирование террористического сепаратизма. Честная, святая и благородная Россия!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 11:19:49 AM
Looks like this is the beginning of the end for Putler. 

article
The Chilly Fallout between Putin and his Oligarch friends.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-chilly-fallout-between-putin-and-his-old-oligarch-pals/ar-AA8ulfD?ocid=mailsignout
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Изумруд on January 23, 2015, 11:40:01 AM
Facebook to be blocked in Russia

..."MOSCOW, September 19. (Itar-Tass) – Facebook has been added to the Russian blacklist of prohibited websites, said Vladimir Pikov, representative of telecom watchdog Roscomnadzor. This means that if in three days’ time the social network will not remove information which is prohibited in Russia, national internet service providers will have to block access to the social network, rendering the website unreachable to Russian internet users."...

http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/700985

Brass

FB is still working in Russia; however, as for access to Ukrainian pages I cannot answer that.  I think Putin would like to block its use, but for the moment Russians can still use it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 23, 2015, 11:57:09 AM
You cannot keyword this helicopter purchase without seeing that the initial contract was procured back in 2011 before the Ukraine invasion and was then was later cancelled in 2013 because the Russian company was also supplying the Assad regime. There was no pretending to be tough. There is no current spending with Russian companies. Different time frame and not relevant to the current policy towards Russia.



Keyword "Russia Delivers Last of U.S.-bought Helicopters to Afghan Military" and you will see that Obama didn't cancel the contract with Russia although Russia supported the Assad regime. We've also been buying all types of arms and military vehicles from Russia with our tax dollars. The last helicopters were delivered 2 months ago well after our sanctions against Russia started. Not only did we buy equipment, but we will be buying parts from Russia for their upkeep. I think we all know the reason Obama overpaid for that equipment. It's to get money into somebody's(Putin's) hands


It's no secret Obama hit the "reset" button with Russia. He did not agree with Republicans that Russia is a geopolitical foe. The Obama administration has made many friendly deals using American taxpayer money that goes into Russia's pocket. While Obama pressured France not to sell ships to Russia, we continue to buy Russian military hardware. Obama could've cancelled or suspend our remaining contract with the Russians the same way he's telling France to do.


http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/11/03/russia-delivers-last-of-u-s-bought-helicopters-to-afghan-military/


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-delivers-last-military-transport-helicopters-to-afghan-security-forces/510390.html


http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-delivers-last-us-bought-helicopters-afghan-military-ukraine-conflict-1718469


No, they're not tanks, however, the U.S. is in the door and that's a start. Considering the current administration in Washington this is a significant step forward and shouldn't be disregarded.



I'm pretty sure Russia is supplying much more equipment for their men in the field than the West is supplying Ukraine. Obama made a small step. I wouldn't call it significant.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 23, 2015, 12:01:46 PM
My son lives in Russia.

You let him stay there while you yourself are enjoying the comfort of life in the good old USA?
 :shock:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2015, 12:13:37 PM
You let him stay there while you yourself are enjoying the comfort of life in the good old USA?
 :shock:
What Do You Mean 'let'? I believe Doll mentioned her son is an adult so she doesn't tell him where he has to live...perhaps he enjoys life in Russia.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 23, 2015, 12:18:57 PM
I am planning to return to Russia after my younger settles here
Life is not that bad in Russia, my older is happily married, has his own business
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 12:43:04 PM
In the Moscow Times today was a poll that stated that more Russian people are comfortable, now, with Soviet style government than the idea of a democratically enabled government.  The populations, too, will have to live with the consequences of such a mindset.

I expect that we have seen the last of free Russia in our lifetimes.


People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it. A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).


Zbignew Brzhinski (sp), Carters security advisor, spelled out very clearly in his book "The Grand Chess Game" that Eastern Europe was the front in the Wests fight against Russia and that Ukraine would be the ultimate prize. So after numerous color revolutions (inspired by the West) how can anyone be suprised that Moscow is finally putting its foot down and saying no more.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 23, 2015, 01:03:28 PM

People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it. A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).


 
Brainwashed Americans (most of them) don't understand it- they're just not capable
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 01:08:48 PM
I am neither American, nor brainwashed.  The Orange Revolution was aided, but not started, by Americans.  It failed.  Its activists will tell you that.  It was started because of electoral fraud, not because of American desires.

The current situation in Ukraine also was not started by the US.  That is a cop out, and an easy answer for conspiracy theorists.  If it were true, there would be no soldiers fighting for Ukraine.
 
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 01:11:22 PM

People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it. A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).


Zbignew Brzhinski (sp), Carters security advisor, spelled out very clearly in his book "The Grand Chess Game" that Eastern Europe was the front in the Wests fight against Russia and that Ukraine would be the ultimate prize. So after numerous color revolutions (inspired by the West) how can anyone be suprised that Moscow is finally putting its foot down and saying no more.


Well said.  That is one of the reasons I start laughing when guys here start tell others how they know what is really happening and the others that don't agree are simply ignorant because of propaganda.


America, the land of the free, where if you don't tell the government about any foreign accounts can land you with fines and possibly jail time.  Now you have to sign up for health care or pay more fines.  Where there are so many laws on the books you can be fined or jailed every time you walk out of the house.  Laws being snuck in through other legislation.


and the best, Democracy is the best because you can buy cheap stuff which means a better life.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 23, 2015, 01:14:47 PM

Keyword "Russia Delivers Last of U.S.-bought Helicopters to Afghan Military" and you will see that Obama didn't cancel the contract with Russia although Russia supported the Assad regime. We've also been buying all types of arms and military vehicles from Russia with our tax dollars. The last helicopters were delivered 2 months ago well after our sanctions against Russia started. Not only did we buy equipment, but we will be buying parts from Russia for their upkeep. I think we all know the reason Obama overpaid for that equipment. It's to get money into somebody's(Putin's) hands


It's no secret Obama hit the "reset" button with Russia. He did not agree with Republicans that Russia is a geopolitical foe. The Obama administration has made many friendly deals using American taxpayer money that goes into Russia's pocket. While Obama pressured France not to sell ships to Russia, we continue to buy Russian military hardware. Obama could've cancelled or suspend our remaining contract with the Russians the same way he's telling France to do.


http://www.dodbuzz.com/2014/11/03/russia-delivers-last-of-u-s-bought-helicopters-to-afghan-military/


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-delivers-last-military-transport-helicopters-to-afghan-security-forces/510390.html


http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-delivers-last-us-bought-helicopters-afghan-military-ukraine-conflict-1718469



I'm pretty sure Russia is supplying much more equipment for their men in the field than the West is supplying Ukraine. Obama made a small step. I wouldn't call it significant.

Which were bought in 2011 as your own articles reports. Read your own links for crying out loud, Billy.

Yes, the contract was cancelled...

Pentagon cancels plans to buy Russian helicopters

..."(Reuters) - The Pentagon no longer will buy Russian helicopters for the Afghan Air Force from Rosoboronexport, a state-owned arms exporter that also sells weapons to the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, U.S. defense officials and a leading Senate opponent of such deals said on Wednesday."...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/us-usa-russia-helicopters-idUSBRE9AC17720131113

U.S. To Stop Buying Russian Helicopters For Afghanistan

..."The United States will not buy any more helicopters from a Russian exporter that also supplies weapons to the Syrian government.

 The Defense Department was set to purchase 15 Mi-17s for $345 million from Rosoboronexport and then deliver them to Afghanistan's national security forces.

 But on November 13, the Defense Department said it was cancelling those plans, although it did not offer a reason."...

http://www.rferl.org/content/afghanistan-mi-17-helicopters/25167681.html

No, the U.S. hasn't been buying all sorts of Russian military equipment since the Ukraine crisis or sanctions started.

Of course the Russians are supplying the terrorists. They also have Russian regulars in Ukraine with their equipment supplying terrorists. The point of my narrative being the fact that the U.S. is in Ukraine and has opened the door is what's significant.

I have no idea where your getting the rest of your narrative above from, it's completely unsubstantiated.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 01:15:02 PM

Well said.  That is one of the reasons I start laughing when guys here start tell others how they know what is really happening and the others that don't agree are simply ignorant because of propaganda.


America, the land of the free, where if you don't tell the government about any foreign accounts can land you with fines and possibly jail time.  Now you have to sign up for health care or pay more fines.  Where there are so many laws on the books you can be fined or jailed every time you walk out of the house.  Laws being snuck in through other legislation.


and the best, Democracy is the best for everyone simply because you can buy cheap stuff.

None of which negates the fact that Russia has sent troops and supplies to so called "rebels" in Ukraine and has started a war in a neighbouring country for its own internal purposes.  The US did not do this, no matter how much naysayers here wish it to be so.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 23, 2015, 01:17:56 PM

People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it. A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).


Zbignew Brzhinski (sp), Carters security advisor, spelled out very clearly in his book "The Grand Chess Game" that Eastern Europe was the front in the Wests fight against Russia and that Ukraine would be the ultimate prize. So after numerous color revolutions (inspired by the West) how can anyone be suprised that Moscow is finally putting its foot down and saying no more.


Are you serious?


Brainwashed people? You mean, you don't have faith in your fellow American so you put your trust in the Russians?


Is that what you are saying?


Please by all means explain.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 01:20:52 PM

None of which negates the fact that Russia has sent troops and supplies to so called "rebels" in Ukraine and has started a war in a neighbouring country for its own internal purposes.  The US did not do this, no matter how much naysayers here wish it to be so.


Did I say it did?   I just laugh at the people who are pro Merica and condemn Russia when Merica has been doing similar tactics in  other countries for a long time. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 01:22:05 PM
But no matter what America does, it does not excuse Russia from starting and prolonging a war in a sovereign, democratic nation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 01:23:49 PM
But no matter what America does, it does not excuse Russia from starting and prolonging a war.


Ah, but that is the problem.  People turning a blind eye when it doesn't personally affect them.  It should matter whenever another country interferes.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 01:26:51 PM

Ah, but that is the problem.  People turning a blind eye when it doesn't personally affect them.  It should matter whenever another country interferes.

Of course it should matter.  However, it is not relevant to what is occurring in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 01:32:20 PM

Of course it should matter.  However, it is not relevant to what is occurring in Ukraine.


Bo, I responded to Streamer's post and in that context. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 01:38:38 PM
Then let's go back to his post.
Quote
People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks
that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to
do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so
Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it.
I will agree with this.
Quote
A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval
will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).
I disagree with this.  The US does not interfere in all cases.  I did not approve of NATO's actions in Kosovo, but it was not merely an internal threat, and Bosnia, certainly, was not an internal threat to Belgrade.

Quote
Zbignew Brzhinski (sp), Carters security advisor, spelled out very clearly in
his book "The Grand Chess Game" that Eastern Europe was the front in the Wests
fight against Russia and that Ukraine would be the ultimate prize.
This is assuming Brzezinski's thesis was accepted by Washington.  I disagree with that assumption.  Had the US accepted Brzezinski's thesis, it would have been far more "hands on" in Ukraine, and there would be no war there now.
Quote
So after numerous color revolutions (inspired by the West) how can anyone be
suprised that Moscow is finally putting its foot down and saying no more.
Again, it is a stretch to assume that the Orange Revolution was "inspired" by the West.  It was inspired by the desire of Ukraine to be democratic and free of corruption.  I will ask again, if you look at history, would you rather be aligned with the West, or with Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 23, 2015, 01:41:04 PM

People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it. A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).


Zbignew Brzhinski (sp), Carters security advisor, spelled out very clearly in his book "The Grand Chess Game" that Eastern Europe was the front in the Wests fight against Russia and that Ukraine would be the ultimate prize. So after numerous color revolutions (inspired by the West) how can anyone be suprised that Moscow is finally putting its foot down and saying no more.

You've somehow managed to totally miss the point.

If the Russian people want to prostrate themselves and live under a totalitarian regime well that's what they've got.

However, when said regime starts invading other countries to subjugate them when they're striving to become better democracies and frustrating their efforts to align with liked minded countries because they don't think that nation should have sovereignty or create it's own path?  That's when problems arise as we're currently seeing.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 01:46:05 PM
Again, it is a stretch to assume that the Orange Revolution was "inspired" by the West.  It was inspired by the desire of Ukraine to be democratic and free of corruption.  I will ask again, if you look at history, would you rather be aligned with the West, or with Russia?

It all boils down to Ukrainians wanting to self determine their future.  Russia has no right to interfere but it is not stopping them.

If the Ukrainians did not want to stand up for their country they would not be doing so, but they are.

Those who believe conspiracty theories or those who want to believe Russian propaganda cannot be helped.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 01:46:34 PM

Well said.  That is one of the reasons I start laughing when guys here start tell others how they know what is really happening and the others that don't agree are simply ignorant because of propaganda.


America, the land of the free, where if you don't tell the government about any foreign accounts can land you with fines and possibly jail time.  Now you have to sign up for health care or pay more fines.  Where there are so many laws on the books you can be fined or jailed every time you walk out of the house.  Laws being snuck in through other legislation.


and the best, Democracy is the best because you can buy cheap stuff which means a better life.

You're welcome to give up your citizenship anytime.  I'm sure that not too many people will cry without your participation in the democratic process.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 01:47:29 PM

1. Ukraine must recognize the separatists
2. Keep funding their regions
3. Ukraine have  to agree to Russian peacekeepers and military hardware



I think we can get Muzh's President to agree to those terms.  He will lean on Poroshenko and continue to promise him nonlethal non-aid.  His constituents like jone will agree as no one wins a nuclear war. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 01:48:46 PM
You're welcome to give up your citizenship anytime.  I'm sure that not too many people will cry without your participation in the democratic process.

Is it not his right, as an American citizen, to criticize his government in any way he sees fit?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 01:48:56 PM
Then let's go back to his post.I will agree with this.I disagree with this. 


I obviously do as well.


Quote
The US does not interfere in all cases.  I did not approve of NATO's actions in Kosovo, but it was not merely an internal threat, and Bosnia, certainly, was not an internal threat to Belgrade.


I agree, I don't think the US interferes in all case. 


Quote
This is assuming Brzezinski's thesis was accepted by Washington.  I disagree with that assumption.  Had the US accepted Brzezinski's thesis, it would have been far more "hands on" in Ukraine, and there would be no war there now.Again, it is a stretch to assume that the Orange Revolution was "inspired" by the West.  It was inspired by the desire of Ukraine to be democratic and free of corruption.  I will ask again, if you look at history, would you rather be aligned with the West, or with Russia?


Ok, let's look at history...  It has been shown what the US was capable of doing in order to bring down Russia.   See the Afghan war where they purposely tried to draw Russia into a war.  If that is the case, and it was, there isn't a huge leap to believe they would have done more and still is. 

Russia is a threat to the US. 

To think the US won't go to great measures to make Russia weak is simply turning a blind eye.  Whether they had their "hands in" Maiden and/or the Orange revolution, I don't think it is a stretch to believe so.  Most think it is just a coincidence listening to Nuland pick out the next President but I highly doubt she was just play "what ifs".  As for how much influence, that is a tough one to understand and we probably will never know. 

I just hope Ukraine comes out of this and changes for the better.  Doubtful, unfortunately.


Edited to add:

I forgot the West versus Russia.  I was born here, in the west, so I would naturally be more comfortable here.  I can see a person like Doll being more happy where she understands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 01:49:30 PM
You're welcome to give up your citizenship anytime.  I'm sure that not too many people will cry without your participation in the democratic process.

 :clapping:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 01:49:39 PM
You're welcome to give up your citizenship anytime.  I'm sure that not too many people will cry without your participation in the democratic process.


Typical response from people who are sheep.  Question their whole belief system and they tell you go away.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 01:49:46 PM
You've somehow managed to totally miss the point.

If the Russian people want to prostrate themselves and live under a totalitarian regime well that's what they've got.

However, when said regime starts invading other countries to subjugate them when they're striving to become better democracies and frustrating their efforts to align with liked minded countries because they don't think that nation should have sovereignty or create it's own path?  That's when problems arise as we're currently seeing.

Brass

Agree 100% with Brass' post.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 01:51:28 PM

Is it not his right, as an American citizen, to criticize his government in any way he sees fit?

That's not the point at all.  All of his posts imply that there must be some better country out there, as America is so horrible.  He should move there post haste.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 01:54:50 PM

Is it not his right, as an American citizen, to criticize his government in any way he sees fit?


Jones made my point.  I am suppose to placate to everyone with things I love about America, which happens to be plenty, but the minute I criticize you will see responses exactly like Jones. 


Propoganda at it's finest.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 01:55:10 PM
Mendy, do you think there have already been back channel threats from Putler to Poroshenko along the lines of "Join my little club or else..."

Surely Putler must realise that any Ukrainian president that even publicly contemplates joining that organisation will get lynched by his own population.

FT, why can't Ukraine be both in the Eurasian Customs Union and the EU?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 01:55:34 PM

Typical response from people who are sheep.  Question their whole belief system and they tell you go away.

If you say that my belief system is threatened by your musings, well, I say 'Nahhhhhhhhh, Nahhhhhhhh.'

 :devil:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 01:55:58 PM

Is it not his right, as an American citizen, to criticize his government in any way he sees fit?

Its his/her duty.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 01:56:23 PM
Quote
Ok, let's look at history...  It has been shown what the US was capable of doing in order to bring down Russian.   See the Afghan war where they purposely tried to draw Russia into a war.  If that is the case, and it was, there isn't a huge leap to
believe they would have done more and still is. 
Bringing down the USSR was a good thing.  However, the US did not draw the USSR into war in Afghanistan.  That was all Brezhnev and the Politburo.  Even the GRU did not want the Soviets in that war.

Quote
Russia is a threat to the US. 
I disagree. 
Quote
To think the US won't go to great measures to make Russia weak is simply turning a blind eye.  Whether they
had their "hands in" Maiden and/or the Orange revolution, I don't think it is a stretch to believe so.  Most think it is just a coincidence listening to Nuland pick out the next President but I highly doubt she was just play "what ifs".  As for how much influence, that is a tough one to understand and we probably will never know. 

Porosenko may have been the US's first choice, but he was democratically elected, in all regions of Ukraine.  Even if the US had influence by, say, helping him with his campaign, at the end of the day, he was chosen president by the Ukrainian people.  And, he is the first president to be elected by a majority in all regions of the country.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 01:57:24 PM
That's not the point at all.  All of his posts imply that there must be some better country out there, as America is so horrible.  He should move there post haste.
I don't see that in his posts at all.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:00:13 PM
:rolleyes:

Russia is blocking any information coming from Ukraine that is not filtered. 

Not true.  Russians comment on my content all the time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 02:02:35 PM
LT,

Your posts are ones that if I were a Russian censor, I would want my population to read. 

 :devil:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:04:50 PM
Steamer,

If the shooting down of a jet airliner did not wake the rest of the world to the atrocities occurring in Eastern Ukraine, I doubt anything else will.  While Ukraine will continue to gut it out, it does not have the resources to maintain a conflict against Russia.

End result is that Russia will take what it wants.

Russia has cemented its status as a pariah nation and will have to permanently deal with the consequences.  In the Moscow Times today was a poll that stated that more Russian people are comfortable, now, with Soviet style government than the idea of a democratically enabled government.  The populations, too, will have to live with the consequences of such a mindset.

I expect that we have seen the last of free Russia in our lifetimes.

All of what you say is true, but its not worth going to war over.  Who wants to get nuked over Ukraine?  Certainly not you
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 02:05:17 PM
LT,

Your posts are ones that if I were a Russian censor, I would want my population to read. 

 :devil:

What, that we're all going to hell in a handbasket, and you will meet your maker soon!

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:06:27 PM

What makes you believe Ukraine will lose the East?  Russia doesn't want Donbas.  The region can't go it alone.

Putin wants to obliterate Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 02:07:31 PM
Bringing down the USSR was a good thing.  However, the US did not draw the USSR into war in Afghanistan.  That was all Brezhnev and the Politburo.  Even the GRU did not want the Soviets in that war.
I disagree. 


The CIA aided the Mujahadeen knowing that would get the Soviets involved.

I don't think it was a coincidence that Romney was pulling out the Russian enemy bit in the Presidential election.  Whether or not Obama believe it we don't know.  We can safely say Obama believes it now.  haha

Quote
Porosenko may have been the US's first choice, but he was democratically elected, in all regions of Ukraine.  Even if the US had influence by, say, helping him with his campaign, at the end of the day, he was chosen president by the Ukrainian people.  And, he is the first president to be elected by a majority in all regions of the country.

I agree, he was elected by the people.  I just don't doubt the US had it's hands in the pie so to speak.  As for how much, who knows. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 23, 2015, 02:08:07 PM
..."(Reuters) - The Pentagon no longer will buy Russian helicopters for the Afghan Air Force from Rosoboronexport, a state-owned arms exporter that also sells weapons to the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, U.S. defense officials and a leading Senate opponent of such deals said on Wednesday."...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/us-usa-russia-helicopters-idUSBRE9AC17720131113

U.S. To Stop Buying Russian Helicopters For Afghanistan

..."The United States will not buy any more helicopters from a Russian exporter that also supplies weapons to the Syrian government.

 But on November 13, the Defense Department said it was cancelling those plans, although it did not offer a reason."...



Brass, I don't know why you're stuck in 2013 and continue to maintain the America cancelled the contract and not buying anymore military equipment from Russia. Read some articles from 2014-15 like the ones below and previously that says we are still buying military equipment from Russia. I don't know why you're protecting Obama but for some reason you don't think Obama can change his mind. Just because America and France agreed on weapons deals with Russia before the crisis in Ukraine doesn't mean they have to continue with the sales. Congress was telling the Pentagon, led by our commander in Chief, Obama, to stop buying those choppers. Stop means STOP NOW. It doesn't mean continue to buy those choppers honoring a contract from 2011, then stop. France didn't want to do it but they stopped honoring the contract signed before 2014 with Russia over a couple of warships. America should lead by example and should have terminated/suspended ongoing contracts immediately with Russia when they backed Assad and crapped on Ukraine.


http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/23/frances-ship-sale-to-russia-latest-example-of-commerce-and-policy-clash/


http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/03/20/3416324/russia-ukraine-dod-helicopters/


http://rbth.com/defence/2014/04/30/congress_pressures_pentagon_to_cancel_arms_contract_with_russia_36339.html


http://en.alalam.ir/news/1577619


http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/08/14/rt-%E2%80%8Bpentagon-defies-congress-to-buy-russian-helicopters-for-afghanistan/


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-ukraine-crisis-pentagon-russia-idUSBREA2I28G20140319
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:11:11 PM

People in the West (especially the US) can't fathom that not everyone thinks that US style democracy is the best thing since sliced bread. That they want to do things their own way proves that there must be some mind control going on so Russia (and other countries, Iraq comes to mind) must be forced to like it. A country trying to protect itself from internal threats without US approval will be bombed into submission (Belgrade comes to mind).


Zbignew Brzhinski (sp), Carters security advisor, spelled out very clearly in his book "The Grand Chess Game" that Eastern Europe was the front in the Wests fight against Russia and that Ukraine would be the ultimate prize. So after numerous color revolutions (inspired by the West) how can anyone be suprised that Moscow is finally putting its foot down and saying no more.

You're so right dude.  America sucks.  So when are you and FT leaving?  Do you have any good weed?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 02:11:32 PM

Is it not his right, as an American citizen, to criticize his government in any way he sees fit?

Yup.  And is my right to invite him to give up his citizenship.  I'm not saying he has to.  My observation was that he has every opportunity to find a governmental process that is more to his liking.  I'm certain that were he in Russia, he would not be cavalier about stating that his country was violating other country's rights. 

I don't approve of people who burn the American flag in protest.  And I would invite them to give up their citizenship as well, but they do not have to.  It is their right to protest.  We defend, with our lives (those that have served in the armed forces of the US) the rights of citizens to burn American flags.

Now, go to Moscow, stand in Red Square and burn a Russian flag and see what happens.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 02:11:50 PM
The CIA aided the Mujahadeen knowing that would get the Soviets involved.

I believe you have that backwards.  There were no mujahadeen before the Soviet invasion.  Did the Americans fund them afterward?  Absolutely.  And the world is paying for the blowback today.

Quote
I agree, he was elected by the people.  I just don't doubt the US had it's hands in the pie so to speak.  As for how much, who knows.
I suspect he would have won in any event.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 02:13:09 PM
Yup.  And is my right to invite him to give up his citizenship.  I'm not saying he has to.  My observation was that he has every opportunity to find a governmental process that is more to his liking.  I'm certain that were he in Russia, he would not be cavalier about stating that his country was violating other country's rights. 

I don't approve of people who burn the American flag in protest.  And I would invite them to give up their citizenship as well, but they do not have to.  It is their right to protest.  We defend, with our lives (those that have served in the armed forces of the US) the rights of citizens to burn American flags.

Now, go to Moscow, stand in Red Square and burn a Russian flag and see what happens.

That's your right, but what occurs in Moscow, or anywhere else in the world, is irrelevant to an American expressing his views of his country.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:14:06 PM

Well said.  That is one of the reasons I start laughing when guys here start tell others how they know what is really happening and the others that don't agree are simply ignorant because of propaganda.


America, the land of the free, where if you don't tell the government about any foreign accounts can land you with fines and possibly jail time.  Now you have to sign up for health care or pay more fines.  Where there are so many laws on the books you can be fined or jailed every time you walk out of the house.  Laws being snuck in through other legislation.


and the best, Democracy is the best because you can buy cheap stuff which means a better life.

You should check out Venezuela.  So much better than America.  Do you have any good weed?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:16:45 PM

And the world is paying for the blowback today.

It was worth it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 02:17:53 PM
No, it wasn't.  The USSR would have collapsed even without Afghanistan.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 02:19:41 PM

That's your right, but what occurs in Moscow, or anywhere else in the world, is irrelevant to an American expressing his views of his country.

Isn't that what the forum is for?  To exchange ideas? 

Quite honestly, I tacitly approved of what Steamer was talking about.  I was a poor target to call sheeple.   Bahhhh. That's why I think it is so funny. 

My post was to get a response and push him further into his tirade on how duplicitous Americans are about thinking that Russia is bad and 'Mericans are good even though we go in and blow people up.    However, I like America's decision making process about whether to blow people up much better than Russia's decision making process about whether to blow people up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:20:27 PM
No, it wasn't.  The USSR would have collapsed even without Afghanistan.

Yeah, Ok.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 02:22:14 PM
You should check out Venezuela.  So much better than America.  Do you have any good weed?

LT,

Come on back to Kali.  We'll get you a prescription and you smoke all the weed you want.  I sure do.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 02:22:20 PM
Isn't that what the forum is for?  To exchange ideas? 
Yes, and that includes criticizing America, if that is what a poster believes.

Quote
Quite honestly, I tacitly approved of what Steamer was talking about.  I
was a poor target to call sheeple.   Bahhhh. That's why I think it is so funny. 
I don't to the extent he believes Russia has a right to invade Ukraine.  It doesn't.

Quote
My post was to get a response and push him further into his tirade on how duplicitous Americans are about thinking that Russia is bad and 'Mericans are good even though we go in and blow people up.    However, I like America's decision making process about whether to blow people up much better than Russia's decision making process about whether to blow people up.
Fair enough.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 02:23:02 PM

I believe you have that backwards.  There were no mujahadeen before the Soviet invasion.  Did the Americans fund them afterward?  Absolutely.  And the world is paying for the blowback today.
I suspect he would have won in any event.


It was found out the US was supplying muhahideen with aid for 6 months prior to Soviet intervention.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html (http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html)



Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)Central Intelligence Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency) (CIA) program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen) prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan), from 1979 to 1989.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone)


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 23, 2015, 02:24:29 PM

So, I have to agree with Jone, you have to be KGB or a paid misinformant.

Also, how do you manage to get Ukrainian Facebook in Russia? My MIL's brother in Omsk cannot see her niece's page in Kharkiv because it is full of war stuff.

Thank you, I would prefer to be KGB colonel as jone proposed. Though I must note you have the exaggerated sense of your importance  ;)

Tell your MIL's brother to arrange FB account,  log in FB, then he will see niece's pages.
Or let he enter direct links to pages with posts. KGB will not  persecute him, I promise

(http://static.newsland.com/news_images/774/big_774824.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 02:27:06 PM
Thank you, I would prefer to be KGB colonel as jone proposed. Though I must note you have the exaggerated sense of your importance  ;)

Tell your MIL's brother to arrange FB account,  log in FB, then he will see niece's pages.
Or let he enter direct links to pages with posts. KGB will not  persecute him, I promise

(http://static.newsland.com/news_images/774/big_774824.jpg)

Great pic, Belvis!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 02:28:17 PM
Yup.  And is my right to invite him to give up his citizenship.  I'm not saying he has to.  My observation was that he has every opportunity to find a governmental process that is more to his liking.  I'm certain that were he in Russia, he would not be cavalier about stating that his country was violating other country's rights. 

I don't approve of people who burn the American flag in protest.  And I would invite them to give up their citizenship as well, but they do not have to.  It is their right to protest.  We defend, with our lives (those that have served in the armed forces of the US) the rights of citizens to burn American flags.

Now, go to Moscow, stand in Red Square and burn a Russian flag and see what happens.


Another typical response.  Point out problems and then "Hey, you can go to Russia and see what rights of free speech you have there." 


Instead of addressing the problems it's the equivalent to sweeping it under the rug.   I say the people who go against the grain and talk about the problems are better Americans compared to the status quo that demands anyone who says something unpleasant to leave.   I'm sure our forefathers would be proud of you jone.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:29:14 PM
Belvis, who is the dude you posted a picture of?  It doesn't look like Putin but maybe Pavel Petel's gf.

Looks like Russia has come to its senses and will stop the reverse sanctions to trade with its allies in the EU or its ally the EU.  I honestly don't know the difference:
http://euobserver.com/foreign/127318
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 23, 2015, 02:29:31 PM
I think we can get Muzh's President to agree to those terms.  He will lean on Poroshenko and continue to promise him nonlethal non-aid.  His constituents like jone will agree as no one wins a nuclear war.


First of all, he is President of ALL Americans, including ignorants and clowns.


I doubt very much he will lean on Poroshenko.


Finally, you just can't wait for a nuclear holocaust, right? Goes to show your state of mind.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 02:31:03 PM

That's your right, but what occurs in Moscow, or anywhere else in the world, is irrelevant to an American expressing his views of his country.

No it's not.  We have the right to invite him to leave.  And if he goes into the wrong bar in America and starts his whining, he will be hitting the floor (again).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 02:31:54 PM
No it's not.  We have the right to invite him to leave.  And if he goes into the wrong bar in America and starts his whining, he will be hitting the floor (again).


Any time internet tough guy, but we already know you rather have other men do what you can't.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:32:33 PM

It was found out the US was supplying muhahideen with aid for 6 months prior to Soviet intervention.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html (http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html)



Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)Central Intelligence Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency) (CIA) program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen) prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan), from 1979 to 1989.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone)

And why was a Soviet intervention necessary? Because of Soviet subversion, you must have gotten your education from American public schools.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 02:33:19 PM
And why was a Soviet intervention necessary? Because of Soviet subversion, you must have gotten your education from American public schools.


You're free to leave if you don't like our schools LT.  Stop being a traitor.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:34:13 PM
LT,

Come on back to Kali.  We'll get you a prescription and you smoke all the weed you want.  I sure do.

You're on.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 23, 2015, 02:39:12 PM
Thank you, I would prefer to be KGB colonel as jone proposed. Though I must note you have the exaggerated sense of your importance  ;)

Tell your MIL's brother to arrange FB account,  log in FB, then he will see niece's pages.
Or let he enter direct links to pages with posts. KGB will not  persecute him, I promise



Put it in writing, not that it would be worth anything.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 02:40:03 PM
Instead of addressing the problems it's the equivalent to sweeping it under the rug.   I say the people who go against the grain and talk about the problems are better Americans compared to the status quo that demands anyone who says something unpleasant to leave.  I'm sure our forefathers would be proud of you jone.

Nah, jone from what I've read does not claim America is perfect, just far better.  We follow the rule of law in our property rights and in our foreign policy as well.

You on the other hand just continue to publish a bunch of nonsensical drivel. 

Are there Russian troops and equipment in Ukraine?  What are they doing there?

Let's just see if you can give a straight answer to those two questions.  Bet you can't do it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 02:40:26 PM

Are you serious?


Brainwashed people? You mean, you don't have faith in your fellow American so you put your trust in the Russians?


Is that what you are saying?


Please by all means explain.


No that's not what I'm saying, read it again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:40:51 PM

You're free to leave if you don't like our schools LT.  Stop being a traitor.

Its called Google.  Try it sometime.  It might save you some embarrassment.



Unlike Muzh, I am not afraid to meet up with you.  PM me

And in other news, Russia reports banks are blaming sanctions for their inability to lend to small farmers.  Thus harvests will be 30% smaller.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 23, 2015, 02:43:33 PM
Its called Google.  Try it sometime.  It might save you some embarrassment.



Unlike Muzh, I am not afraid to meet up with you.  PM me

And in other news, Russia reports banks are blaming sanctions for their inability to lend to small farmers.  Thus harvests will be 30% smaller.


Is that what you do? Go around forums threatening people with bodily harm because they call you on your old and tired antics?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 02:44:23 PM
Nah, jone from what I've read does not claim America is perfect, just far better.  We follow the rule of law in our property rights and in our foreign policy as well.




haha Funny!

Found a picture of you AC.  You looking perty.


(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o259/hobbs70/sheep.jpg)


Quote

Are there Russian troops and equipment in Ukraine?  What are they doing there?

Let's just see if you can give a straight answer to those two questions.  Bet you can't do it.


You sound exactly like JayH.  Hilarious.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 02:46:45 PM

This is assuming Brzezinski's thesis was accepted by Washington.  I disagree with that assumption.  Had the US accepted Brzezinski's thesis, it would have been far more "hands on" in Ukraine, and there would be no war there now.Again, it is a stretch to assume that the Orange Revolution was "inspired" by the West.


Accepted by Washington? It's been the blueprint for NeoCons since the 90's.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 02:48:57 PM
Its called Google.  Try it sometime.  It might save you some embarrassment.



Unlike Muzh, I am not afraid to meet up with you.  PM me

And in other news, Russia reports banks are blaming sanctions for their inability to lend to small farmers.  Thus harvests will be 30% smaller.


So many internet tough guys. 


Muzh and I never talked about meeting up, but if we did we would have a beer, talk and probably make fun of each other without any animosity at the end.  That is what normal people do, LT. 


I know you have some health issues but going on forums and trying to meet up with people in every other posts is rather weird, even for you.


Sure, if you're in the neighborhood let me know.  I may be rolling through Arizona (I think you are from there) this year and will pm you.  You will find I will say everything to you that I said on this forum.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:49:32 PM

Accepted by Washington? It's been the blueprint for NeoCons since the 90's.

Name names.  Which neoconservatives?  Name names, if you can . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 02:50:47 PM
Quote
Accepted by Washington? It's been the blueprint for NeoCons since the 90's.
I disagree.   Brzezinski is no friend to the neocons, and their view of the world is not his.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 02:51:22 PM
However, when said regime starts invading other countries to subjugate them when they're striving to become better democracies and frustrating their efforts to align with liked minded countries because they don't think that nation should have sovereignty or create it's own path?  That's when problems arise as we're currently seeing.

Brass


Sure just like Iraq, Cuba, Yugoslavia etc.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:52:03 PM

So many internet tough guys. 


Muzh and I never talked about meeting up, but if we did we would have a beer, talk and probably make fun of each other without any animosity at the end.  That is what normal people do, LT. 


I know you have some health issues but going on forums and trying to meet up with people in every other posts is rather weird, even for you.


Sure, if you're in the neighborhood let me know.  I may be rolling through Arizona (I think you are from there) this year and will pm you.  You will find I will say everything to you that I said on this forum.

Yeah whatever.  Hit me up.  Texas works too.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 02:53:23 PM

Sure just like Iraq, Cuba, Yugoslavia etc.

The states you named are trying to be democracies?  How?

http://www.odessatalk.com/2015/01/search-policy/

Article by Nikolai Holmov
Has anybody identified a definitive policy for Ukraine from “The West”?

Has anybody identified a definitive policy for Russia from “The West”?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 02:55:23 PM

Sure just like Iraq, Cuba, Yugoslavia etc.
It isn't relevant to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, in any event.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 02:56:54 PM

Another typical response.  Point out problems and then "Hey, you can go to Russia and see what rights of free speech you have there." 


Instead of addressing the problems it's the equivalent to sweeping it under the rug.   I say the people who go against the grain and talk about the problems are better Americans compared to the status quo that demands anyone who says something unpleasant to leave.   I'm sure our forefathers would be proud of you jone.

You're welcome to talk about problems in American decision making any time.  But when you give a blanket statement about people on the forum you will always get pushback.  As for me, happy hour here in Kali begins at 4 and the first round is always on me.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 03:01:52 PM
You're so right dude.  America sucks.  So when are you and FT leaving?  Do you have any good weed?


Why do you think that? Because I don't think that we have the right to force others to our way of thinking? That's rather elitist of you isn't it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 03:10:05 PM
You're welcome to talk about problems in American decision making any time.  But when you give a blanket statement about people on the forum you will always get pushback.  As for me, happy hour here in Kali begins at 4 and the first round is always on me.


I expect blanket statements about any group of people, even Russian, to get pushback. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 23, 2015, 03:10:47 PM

Brass, I don't know why you're stuck in 2013 and continue to maintain the America cancelled the contract and not buying anymore military equipment from Russia. Read some articles from 2014-15 like the ones below and previously that says we are still buying military equipment from Russia. I don't know why you're protecting Obama but for some reason you don't think Obama can change his mind. Just because America and France agreed on weapons deals with Russia before the crisis in Ukraine doesn't mean they have to continue with the sales. Congress was telling the Pentagon, led by our commander in Chief, Obama, to stop buying those choppers. Stop means STOP NOW. It doesn't mean continue to buy those choppers honoring a contract from 2011, then stop. France didn't want to do it but they stopped honoring the contract signed before 2014 with Russia over a couple of warships. America should lead by example and should have terminated/suspended ongoing contracts immediately with Russia when they backed Assad and crapped on Ukraine.


http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/23/frances-ship-sale-to-russia-latest-example-of-commerce-and-policy-clash/


http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/03/20/3416324/russia-ukraine-dod-helicopters/


http://rbth.com/defence/2014/04/30/congress_pressures_pentagon_to_cancel_arms_contract_with_russia_36339.html


http://en.alalam.ir/news/1577619


http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/08/14/rt-%E2%80%8Bpentagon-defies-congress-to-buy-russian-helicopters-for-afghanistan/


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-ukraine-crisis-pentagon-russia-idUSBREA2I28G20140319

The contract was penned in 2011 then cancelled in 2013. The U.S. is not buying more choppers, the Russians only completed the delivery and fulfilled the contract last fall. Washington did cancel the contract because of the controversy surrounding Assad. edit to add Can we at least agree on this as reported by the links?

You do realize that the choppers were not only funded by the U.S. but by NATO and Russia as well, right?

http://www.nato.int/nrc-website/en/articles/20121130-nrc-10-years-hmtf/

Congress told the Pentagon stop buying the choppers; that's it, no more chopper buying which is exactly what happened. If Russia was delivering on an order already paid for to the Afghan government then let them.

In other words; Afghanistan isn't under sanction, Russia is. Why would Obama try and cancel delivery by Russia to Afghanistan of product already paid for if Russia was willing to make the delivery at the time? The only country that would effect is Afghanistan.

France is another situation altogether: Russia contracted France, France builds, Russia comes under sanction, France says your under sanction for invading another country so no delivery until EU/NATO conditions are met. Not we're cancelling the contract.

You need to remember that France is also a sovereign country. If they decide to release those ships they can do so. They're holding the line because they also believe the conditions need to be met not because the U.S. or NATO says France can't deliver.

Washington did cancel/suspend all their contracts as far as the sanctions and Congress permitted.  They are leading by example in that regard.

Now all that needs to happen is leading by example with military aid to Ukraine.

I get you don't like the Administration, me either (from the outside looking in) but there's enough President Obama's administration needs to answer for with out assigning blame for events he, Congress or the Pentagon could not have known were about to occur, right?

Brass

edit: Holy Crap 36 new posts since I wrote this.  :P




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 03:15:28 PM
I don't to the extent he believes Russia has a right to invade Ukraine.  It doesn't.


This is where you misunderstand me. I don't think that Russia has a right to invade Ukraine but given the history and circumstances I know that Russia WILL invade. I would be shocked beyond belief if there are no Russian troops or US "advisors" in UA. I think the west is playing a dangerous game and Russia ain't playing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 03:17:10 PM

This is where you misunderstand me. I don't think that Russia has a right to invade Ukraine but given the history and circumstances I know that Russia WILL invade. I would be shocked beyond belief if there are no Russian troops or US "advisors" in UA. I think the west is playing a dangerous game and Russia ain't playing.
Russia has already invaded.  It did so at the very start of this conflict.  Will Russia continue?  It depends on the reaction of the West.  Causing Russia even more economic pain likely will, eventually, have the desired effect.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 03:21:20 PM
The states you named are trying to be democracies?  How?


No, the US didn't like how they did things.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 03:27:45 PM
You sound exactly like JayH.  Hilarious.

That's exactly what I thought.  You can't answer a simple question as to why Russian troops have invaded Ukraine with tanks and grad rocket launchers, because your whole reason to be here is to try to deflect away from what is going on over there by criticizing American foreign policy.

Just another internet troll spewing nonsense. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 03:29:17 PM

No, the US didn't like how they did things.
I don't think the second invasion of Iraq was because of how Saddam Hussein ran things, nor do I think interference in the former Yugoslavia had anything to do with a lack of democracy in Milosevic's Serbia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 03:32:16 PM
Russia has already invaded.  It did so at the very start of this conflict.  Will Russia continue?  It depends on the reaction of the West.  Causing Russia even more economic pain likely will, eventually, have the desired effect.


I believe Russia absolutely will continue and the reaction from the west will be tsk tsk tut tut.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 03:34:38 PM

I believe Russia absolutely will continue and the reaction from the west will be tsk tsk tut tut.

Temporarily yes.  In the long run no.  I think what is unknow is how long Putin can survive the sanctions, the low oil prices and the Oligarchs turning against him.  Once his Armies are decimated by the West I expect him to take his own life in some lonely bunker.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 03:35:23 PM

No, the US didn't like how they did things.
Cuba is a completely different story, and while things did have to change there, no one can say socialism was the right answer.

Iraq was a brutal dictatorship, so regime change there was not necessarily a bad thing, though I don't think the way it was done was a net positive.  But, let's not kid ourselves.  The US did not go into Iraq for democracy.


I believe Russia absolutely will continue and the reaction from the west will be tsk tsk tut tut.
The sanctions show they are doing more than "tut tut".  I think further reaction will depend on what occurs.  If the war escalates, I believe there will be a stronger reaction, perhaps with more arms for Ukraine.  Although really, this requires a diplomatic solution.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 03:38:56 PM
I don't think the second invasion of Iraq was because of how Saddam Hussein ran things, nor do I think interference in the former Yugoslavia had anything to do with a lack of democracy in Milosevic's Serbia.


Saddam made the mistake of wanting to take over the region so that all the oil producing countries would be under one (his) control. This would not be allowed.


Slobo had the bad luck of Clinton being caught getting a knob shine and needing to divert attention.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 23, 2015, 03:40:48 PM
The contract was penned in 2011 then cancelled in 2013. The U.S. is not buying more choppers, the Russians only completed the delivery and fulfilled the contract last fall. Washington did cancel the contract because of the controversy surrounding Assad.

Congress told the Pentagon stop buying the choppers; that's it, no more chopper buying which is exactly what happened. If Russia was delivering on an order already paid for to the Afghan government then let them.


That is not what happened. Brass, can you step out of 2013 for a moment? Did you not read what happened after 2013 in the links I provided? Jane's is the premier expert on the worlds weapons and read what they have to say below in a Nov 2014 article. "Congress unsuccessfully tried to halt the purchase due to Russia's military support for Syria, and later over the Ukraine crisis" Everything you thought happened in 2013 did not happen and the Pentagon continued to buy the helicopters and pay money to Russia. Congress didn't have power to tell the Pentagon what to do. Obama does. Congress asked the Pentagon to STOP IMMEDIATELY, and not honor the rest of the contract. The Pentagon initially agreed probably so they could look good in the press and keep Americans happy but instead, they continued to defy Congress. Somebody really wanted this deal to proceed against Congress's wishes and Obama is America's top general. Not hard to figure out.


http://www.janes.com/article/45317/afghanistan-gets-final-mi-17s


Another article that says Pentagon sidestepped Congress. Doesn't matter if Russia is helping Assad or hurting Ukraine, we proceeded to do business with Russia and let them profit while they're invading Ukraine.


http://archive.defensenews.com/article/20131101/DEFREG01/311010011/Russia-Delivers-12-Helos-Afghan-Army


You do realize that the choppers were not only funded by the U.S. but by NATO and Russia as well, right?

http://www.nato.int/nrc-website/en/articles/20121130-nrc-10-years-hmtf/



NATO-Russia is not buying the choppers. America did. Your article says NATO-Russia is spending 20 million for maintenance of those choppers and training the pilots. Russia supplies the parts and training, NATO the cash. America spent over a billion, NATO 20 million, and Russia profits the most all while we're telling France to cancel their sale of ships to Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 23, 2015, 03:41:26 PM

Life is not that bad in Russia,

Yeah, if you compare it to life in Sierra Leon!

If double digit inflation, currency tanking 50%, and projected GDP contraction 5% doesn't qualify as 'bad', then please tell us what does.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 03:42:47 PM

Saddam made the mistake of wanting to take over the region so that all the oil producing countries would be under one (his) control. This would not be allowed.


Slobo had the bad luck of Clinton being caught getting a knob shine and needing to divert attention.
Saddam was barely hanging on to power by the time Iraq II occurred.

The first NATO bombing campaign was before the Lewisnky scandal, and I suspect the second one would have occurred in any event.  Madeline Albright was rather taken with the KLA terrorists.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 23, 2015, 03:45:01 PM
Cuba is a completely different story, and while things did have to change there, no one can say socialism was the right answer.

Iraq was a brutal dictatorship, so regime change there was not necessarily a bad thing, though I don't think the way it was done was a net positive.  But, let's not kid ourselves.  The US did not go into Iraq for democracy.
The sanctions show they are doing more than "tut tut".  I think further reaction will depend on what occurs.  If the war escalates, I believe there will be a stronger reaction, perhaps with more arms for Ukraine.  Although really, this requires a diplomatic solution.

+1 (to all your responses regarding this side bar line of discussion, Boe)

I still believe that the end result is going to be military intervention by the west though. It's becoming less avoidable by the day, imo.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 03:51:34 PM
Name names.  Which neoconservatives?  Name names, if you can . . .


Cheney Rumsfeld Wolfowitz Bolton Abrams Perle Bremer


I had to look up the last 4.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 03:53:13 PM

Why do you think that? Because I don't think that we have the right to force others to our way of thinking? That's rather elitist of you isn't it?

I have been called a lot of things.  Ask Jone.

I am reading your posts and I don't think you like America very much.  I could be wrong.  But usually lefties or eighties who love America criticicize their government name particular politicians, parties or philosophies while people who hate America generalize and then deny they hate America.  Do you hate America?  Yes or no and why?  Thx.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 03:53:53 PM

Cheney Rumsfeld Wolfowitz Bolton Abrams Perle Bremer


I had to look up the last 4.

None of those guys are in power guess again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 04:00:25 PM
None of those guys are in power guess again.
Not now, but a number of them ran American foreign policy during Dubya's presidency.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 04:01:46 PM
I have been called a lot of things.  Ask Jone.

I am reading your posts and I don't think you like America very much.  I could be wrong.  But usually lefties or eighties who love America criticicize their government name particular politicians, parties or philosophies while people who hate America generalize and then deny they hate America.  Do you hate America?  Yes or no and why?  Thx.


You are wrong, I love my country.
I don't like my government neglecting its citizens but sticking its nose into everyone elses business.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 04:04:12 PM
None of those guys are in power guess again.


The 90's are gone too.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 04:05:05 PM

First of all, he is President of ALL Americans, including ignorants and clowns.


I doubt very much he will lean on Poroshenko.


Finally, you just can't wait for a nuclear holocaust, right? Goes to show your state of mind.

You are in denial.  But don't worry the great majority can't even find Ukraine on a Risk board.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 04:07:15 PM

You are wrong, I love my country.
I don't like my government neglecting its citizens but sticking its nose into everyone elses business.

You love America?  Why?  Its a land of ignorant war mongerers divided by two camps the wimps and hypocrites.  Why would YOU associate much less love America?  Why?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 04:12:51 PM
Yeah, if you compare it to life in Sierra Leon!

If double digit inflation, currency tanking 50%, and projected GDP contraction 5% doesn't qualify as 'bad', then please tell us what does.

Ahh people's standard of living and incomes are actually growing in most parts on non-Muslim Africa.  Still better than Russia . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 04:16:40 PM
Saddam was barely hanging on to power by the time Iraq II occurred.

Saddam is an angel.  Ever been to his petting zoo?  I have.

And for a guy who had 3 million Iraqis die during his time in the sanctions sin bin he sure did build over 300 palaces.  Barely hanging on I tell ya!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 04:23:39 PM
Saddam is an angel.  Ever been to his petting zoo?  I have.

And for a guy who had 3 million Iraqis die during his time in the sanctions sin bin he sure did build over 300 palaces.  Barely hanging on I tell ya!
He was barely hanging on to power at the time of the US invasion.  How many palaces he had is irrelevant to that point.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 04:31:26 PM
That's exactly what I thought.  You can't answer a simple question as to why Russian troops have invaded Ukraine with tanks and grad rocket launchers, because your whole reason to be here is to try to deflect away from what is going on over there by criticizing American foreign policy.

Just another internet troll spewing nonsense.


Funny, coming from a guy who probably has never set foot in Russia or Ukraine.  When you planning on putting the keyboards down and making a trip?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 04:32:28 PM
He was barely hanging on to power at the time of the US invasion.  How many palaces he had is irrelevant to that point.

By barely hanging on?  Saddam used take political prisoners and use them to test hand grenades.  He has a whole best of Saddam torture bids on ogrish.com  He would take some torture them in front of their families or rape the wife and daughters in front of their families.  I was in charge of the maintenance of Radiniwiyah palace, the first palace he built for himself in 1979.  It sits atop a man made hill.  He killed the chief architect fearing he would hand over the blue prints to assassins.  He bragged how one Arab could take on a coalition of over 100 countries led by the United States and survived.  His security service the Mukhabarat organized the first effective guerrilla resistance against the invasion force.  He gave safe harbor to Abu Musab Zarqawi who would later establish Al Qaeda in Iraq.  So that is barely hanging on for you eh?

OK.  No arguments here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 04:35:47 PM
Yeah, if you compare it to life in Sierra Leon!

If double digit inflation, currency tanking 50%, and projected GDP contraction 5% doesn't qualify as 'bad', then please tell us what does.

Spending 35% of your budget on defense spending sounds pretty bad to me also.  Can't forget that little tidbit.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 04:48:38 PM

This is where you misunderstand me. I don't think that Russia has a right to invade Ukraine but given the history and circumstances I know that Russia WILL invade. I would be shocked beyond belief if there are no Russian troops or US "advisors" in UA. I think the west is playing a dangerous game and Russia ain't playing.

Interesting post. 

You realize, of course, that if the West is fully engaged, Russia loses.  Putin understands this.  Otherwise he would have rolled over Ukraine like a steam roller and that would be that.

The other thing that immediately comes to mind is that you state that Russia isn't playing a game.  Everything I've seen from Putin is gamesmanship.  The whole 'brokering government change' during Maidan.  The move into Crimea.  The unacknowledged war in Eastern Ukraine. 

You're the one who doesn't see it for what it is.  This is a chess match that Putin has created.  You cannot argue that Russia 'ain't playin a game'.  They are.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 23, 2015, 04:51:45 PM

That is not what happened. Brass, can you step out of 2013 for a moment? Did you not read what happened after 2013 in the links I provided? Jane's is the premier expert on the worlds weapons and read what they have to say below in a Nov 2014 article. "Congress unsuccessfully tried to halt the purchase due to Russia's military support for Syria, and later over the Ukraine crisis" Everything you thought happened in 2013 did not happen and the Pentagon continued to buy the helicopters and pay money to Russia. Congress didn't have power to tell the Pentagon what to do. Obama does. Congress asked the Pentagon to STOP IMMEDIATELY, and not honor the rest of the contract. The Pentagon initially agreed probably so they could look good in the press and keep Americans happy but instead, they continued to defy Congress. Somebody really wanted this deal to proceed against Congress's wishes and Obama is America's top general. Not hard to figure out.

http://www.janes.com/article/45317/afghanistan-gets-final-mi-17s

Another article that says Pentagon sidestepped Congress. Doesn't matter if Russia is helping Assad or hurting Ukraine, we proceeded to do business with Russia and let them profit while they're invading Ukraine.

http://archive.defensenews.com/article/20131101/DEFREG01/311010011/Russia-Delivers-12-Helos-Afghan-Army

Yet the links I provided all state the contract was cancelled in Nov 13. Here's another one...

Pentagon ending buys of Russian-made helicopters

http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-ending-buys-russian-made-helicopters-215516842--politics.html

There's no doubt that the contract, procurement and cancellation were controversial as Jane's reports but you're including editorial comment with the events surrounding the cancellation itself which doesn't change the time line.

In your Defense news link above dated Nov 1, 13 it states...

"Completion of deliveries of the latest batch of Mi-17s leaves a further 30 of the rotorcraft to be handed over to the US in 2014 under a $572 million deal Rosoboronexport signed earlier this year"...

The contract was not yet cancelled. It was cancelled mid Nov 13 as my link above reports...

..."November 13, 2013 5:49 PM WASHINGTON (AP) — The Defense Department said Wednesday it is canceling plans to buy additional cargo helicopters from the Russian arms export agency that has supplied Syrian President Bashar Assad's military forces with arms and ammunition."...

So, according to Jane's...

"In 2013, Rosoboronexport and the US government reached and signed an agreement for delivery in 2014 of an extra batch of 30 helicopters."...

That agreement was signed in 2013 before the cancellation. Russia delivers in 2014. That was the last shipment as reported by the Defense News above.

No ongoing agreements signed after Nov 13 and one delivery made in 2014 fulfilling the agreement signed in 2013, right?

So some argument and side stepping prior to Nov 13 but there is nothing to show any ongoing agreements after mid Nov 13. If there is I can't find it.

NATO-Russia is not buying the choppers. America did. Your article says NATO-Russia is spending 20 million for maintenance of those choppers and training the pilots. Russia supplies the parts and training, NATO the cash. America spent over a billion, NATO 20 million, and Russia profits the most all while we're telling France to cancel their sale of ships to Russia.

Russia/NATO - I didn't mean to imply they were buying choppers but that they were funding (as in a stakeholder) the program as my link reported. As you've mentioned they were paying for training, spare parts. Yes, the U.S. and NATO were footing the bill and how did I know you'd get that last piece of editorializing in there for good measure. :D

Brass

 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2015, 05:12:35 PM

None of which negates the fact that Russia has sent troops and supplies to so called "rebels" in Ukraine and has started a war in a neighbouring country for its own internal purposes.  The US did not do this, no matter how much naysayers here wish it to be so.


Which naysayers are you referring to?  Rather then wishing it were true...I'd wish it wasn't true, and to this point it may not be as we haven't sent much if any military supplies/personal  into Ukraine...yet.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 05:13:22 PM
I have been called a lot of things.  Ask Jone.

Why would someone ask me what you've been called?  It is enough for you to know what you've been called.  I don't register stuff like that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2015, 05:16:32 PM
But no matter what America does, it does not excuse Russia from starting and prolonging a war in a sovereign, democratic nation.


What it does do is put America in a position where we are hypocrites when we intervene when someone does similarly to us....




Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2015, 05:18:22 PM
You're welcome to give up your citizenship anytime.  I'm sure that not too many people will cry without your participation in the democratic process.


Joan goes nuclear here because he doesn't like LFU's opinion.   Ridiculous.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2015, 05:20:10 PM
You're so right dude.  America sucks.  So when are you and FT leaving?  Do you have any good weed?


When are YOU leaving and going to fight what you apparently so strongly believe in?  I don't do drugs, i'm happy with life as it is.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 23, 2015, 05:20:47 PM

What it does do is put America in a position where we are hypocrites when we intervene when someone does similarly to us....




Fathertime!
They (meaning Russia) didn't do it to you.  It isn't Americans who are dying in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 05:23:48 PM
By barely hanging on?  Saddam used take political prisoners and use them to test hand grenades.  He has a whole best of Saddam torture bids on ogrish.com  He would take some torture them in front of their families or rape the wife and daughters in front of their families.  I was in charge of the maintenance of Radiniwiyah palace, the first palace he built for himself in 1979.  It sits atop a man made hill.  He killed the chief architect fearing he would hand over the blue prints to assassins.  He bragged how one Arab could take on a coalition of over 100 countries led by the United States and survived.  His security service the Mukhabarat organized the first effective guerrilla resistance against the invasion force.  He gave safe harbor to Abu Musab Zarqawi who would later establish Al Qaeda in Iraq.  So that is barely hanging on for you eh?

OK.  No arguments here.

No arguments from me either, Sadam Insane is not missed.  Now you need to take what you just wrote and apply it to Russia.  I say this because you were arguing with myself and BB that Russia was not a real threat because of the sanctions and low oil prices.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2015, 05:24:49 PM
You are in denial.  But don't worry the great majority can't even find Ukraine on a Risk board.


Risk, a great game...I still play it every once in a great while with old high school friends....


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 05:27:07 PM
You love America?  Why?  Its a land of ignorant war mongerers divided by two camps the wimps and hypocrites.  Why would YOU associate much less love America?  Why?


You're thinking of RWD
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2015, 05:27:38 PM
Interesting post. 

You realize, of course, that if the West is fully engaged, Russia loses.  Putin understands this.  Otherwise he would have rolled over Ukraine like a steam roller and that would be that.




I don't see the logic in this statement.  So Putin is waiting around invading piecemeal so the west has time to get fully engaged...so he can lose?


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 05:28:36 PM

Funny, coming from a guy who probably has never set foot in Russia or Ukraine.  When you planning on putting the keyboards down and making a trip?

I've already been.  And you? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 05:37:09 PM
You realize, of course, that if the West is fully engaged, Russia loses.  Putin understands this.  Otherwise he would have rolled over Ukraine like a steam roller and that would be that.


That's a very big if. I don't think that the west wants to go to war over a place that it doesn't want. I've said before that the worst thing that could happen to the EU is to 'win' Ukraine and then have to rebuild it. I think that would finish the EU, which is why I think the sanctions will quietly go away.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 05:38:56 PM
I've already been.  And you?


Strange how you always avoided that question when people would ask.  Makes one wonder what you are hiding. 


Anyway, I lived there for some time.


I have no plans on going back.  I was originally there for work.  Hopefully some day you will find someone interested in marrying you.  ;)  Dating wise, I don't have a problem with American women so no need to travel for that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 23, 2015, 05:41:35 PM

I don't see the logic in this statement.  So Putin is waiting around invading piecemeal so the west has time to get fully engaged...so he can lose?


Fathertime!   

I think his statement makes sense.  Putin knows the sanctions would likely be increased.  Don't know why he's waiting, but he has been.  Probably wanted to be sure the West ie NATO would not enter Ukraine to help defend Ukraine.  Nobody really knows what he will do, and nobody really knows what NATO's response will be if he does an all out invasion.  He probably wants to just keep taking it small bits at a time and bleeding Ukraine financially.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 23, 2015, 05:44:25 PM

That's a very big if. I don't think that the west wants to go to war over a place that it doesn't want. I've said before that the worst thing that could happen to the EU is to 'win' Ukraine and then have to rebuild it. I think that would finish the EU.

This is a good observation and worthy of it's own discussion under the heading "Be careful what you wish for" or "Now that we have it what are we going to do with it?" but at the same time does not excuse Russia's actions.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 23, 2015, 05:52:04 PM

That's a very big if. I don't think that the west wants to go to war over a place that it doesn't want. I've said before that the worst thing that could happen to the EU is to 'win' Ukraine and then have to rebuild it. I think that would finish the EU, which is why I think the sanctions will quietly go away.

I think that if it would come to such a situation, we would see Congress pass a Marshall Plan to augment the reconstruction of Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 23, 2015, 05:56:34 PM
It is pointless discussing what happens in the future- there is no future until the Russian invasion is stopped and forced out of Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 05:57:22 PM
This is a good observation and worthy of it's own discussion under the heading "Be careful what you wish for" or "Now that we have it what are we going to do with it?" but at the same time does not excuse Russia's actions.

Brass


Excuse no, explain yes. Russia doesn't need to have some big offensive push in Ukraine, just let them stew in their own juices and see if attitudes change.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2015, 06:00:21 PM
I think that if it would come to such a situation, we would see Congress pass a Marshall Plan to augment the reconstruction of Ukraine.


Spend Billions in Ukraine when we have cities literally drying up without water here in California?   If it came to this, it is not a surprise that many US citizens would continue to be irate that money is spent elsewhere when there is legit. and pressing needs right here at home where money is not spent.  Reminds me of all the money wasted on infrastructure we built in the middle east.


http://screen.yahoo.com/buzzfeed/city-without-water-070142658.html (http://screen.yahoo.com/buzzfeed/city-without-water-070142658.html)


Fathertime!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 06:00:28 PM

Excuse no, explain yes. Russia doesn't need to have some big offensive in Ukraine, just let them stew in their own juices and see if attitudes change.


Isn't that the reason Russia is causing chaos?  To try and cause a regime change and hopefully take back control or influence. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 23, 2015, 06:01:54 PM

Spend Billions in Ukraine when we have cities literally drying up without water here in California?   If it came to this, it is not a surprise that many US citizens would continue to be irate that money is spent elsewhere when there is legit. and pressing needs right here at home where money is not spent.  Reminds me of all the money wasted on infrastructure we built in the middle east.


http://screen.yahoo.com/buzzfeed/city-without-water-070142658.html (http://screen.yahoo.com/buzzfeed/city-without-water-070142658.html)


Fathertime!


haha  That would be something else especially when there is talk about gas taxes needing to increase for what...  infrastructure.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 06:06:28 PM

Isn't that the reason Russia is causing chaos?  To try and cause a regime change and hopefully take back control or influence.


Makes sense. Who will blink first; Russia with sanctions or Ukraine with all its troubles?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2015, 06:46:55 PM

haha  That would be something else especially when there is talk about gas taxes needing to increase for what...  infrastructure.


Yeah increase our gas taxes so the money can be sent to Washington, and from there sent to Ukraine *part of which is probably stolen/misused*....all the while we have plenty of infrastructure here that needs money....and is ignored....


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 23, 2015, 07:08:48 PM
I think his statement makes sense.  Putin knows the sanctions would likely be increased.  Don't know why he's waiting, but he has been.  Probably wanted to be sure the West ie NATO would not enter Ukraine to help defend Ukraine.  Nobody really knows what he will do, and nobody really knows what NATO's response will be if he does an all out invasion.  He probably wants to just keep taking it small bits at a time and bleeding Ukraine financially.


I read the war was costing Ukraine $6-7 million a day. Based on the size of army Russia has deployed both within and outside Ukraine I would say Russian is probably spending 4-5 times that if not more. They have a much longer supply chain to get stuff there and are paying their people much more to be there. Who knows how much $$$ has changed hands from Russia directly to the terrorist leaders as well.


So while these costs are significant for Ukraine they aren't exactly a drop in the bucket for Russia either given the amount of money they are using to prop up the ruble. Supposedly they need to spend $0-50 billion to try and keep the ruble from totally tanking.


On a side not, a friend of mine's wife is from Crimea with family still there. She was so pro-Russian AFTER they took over but clearly pro-Ukrainian prior to all this. She thought it was going to be the best thing to ever happen for her family in Crimea. Let's just say her, and her family's, thoughts on this have changed after the honeymoon is over. Her family has a serious case of buyer's remorse so to speak and they realize it is going to get much worse. They realize that at least they had a chance if they were unhappy with Kiev and somethings could maybe change. Now they realize with Putin's cronies they are F'd. They now have no status in the rest of the world. Only place they can travel is FSU pretty much and many foreign businesses have totally pulled out only to be replace by super corrupt Russian ones or not at all.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 23, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
There's no doubt that the contract, procurement and cancellation were controversial as Jane's reports but you're including editorial comment with the events surrounding the cancellation itself which doesn't change the time line.



Do you think they're stupid? I showed you other news sites that also agree the Pentagon is defying Congress. It's not opinion, it's fact. If you think the Pentagon did as Congress asked in 2013 when Russia was supplying arms to Assad, why did Congress have to request the Pentagon again in 2014 to stop buying helicopters from Russia after Russia invaded Ukraine? Congress too stupid to remember what they requested in 2013? They made the request twice because the Pentagon didn't listen to them the first time. Pentagon twice defied Congress and continued to buy those overpriced choppers.


Congress wanted a complete stoppage of money and military equipment exchange with Russia effective immediately at the time requested. France signed a contract with Russia in 2011 too but for a couple of ships but Obama didn't want them to honor their contract. Obama is a hypocrite or he really wanted to get money into Russia's hands. I betcha Obama is going to continue to allow American tax dollars to buy Russian parts for those choppers no matter how aggressive Russia gets in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 11:41:54 PM
Spending 35% of your budget on defense spending sounds pretty bad to me also.  Can't forget that little tidbit.

JFK spent 50%
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 11:46:00 PM
Interesting post. 

You realize, of course, that if the West is fully engaged, Russia loses.  Putin understands this.  Otherwise he would have rolled over Ukraine like a steam roller and that would be that.

The other thing that immediately comes to mind is that you state that Russia isn't playing a game.  Everything I've seen from Putin is gamesmanship.  The whole 'brokering government change' during Maidan.  The move into Crimea.  The unacknowledged war in Eastern Ukraine. 

You're the one who doesn't see it for what it is.  This is a chess match that Putin has created.  You cannot argue that Russia 'ain't playin a game'.  They are.

If the West is fully engaged, there is nuclear war and Ukraine is not worth going to war over.  Georgia wasn't.  Chechnya wasn't.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 23, 2015, 11:47:45 PM

When are YOU leaving and going to fight what you apparently so strongly believe in?  I don't do drugs, i'm happy with life as it is.


Fathertime!

You, Steamer and lFU hate America.  When are you leaving? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 23, 2015, 11:55:42 PM
You, Steamer and lFU hate America.  When are you leaving?


Big laughs, aint happinin,

















Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 24, 2015, 12:49:42 AM
Why would you stay in a country that uses force to defend freedom?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 24, 2015, 01:22:16 AM
You, Steamer and lFU hate America.  When are you leaving?


You hate America and that is why you have already gone.  That is called addition by subtraction!   :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 24, 2015, 02:01:19 AM

You hate America and that is why you have already gone.  That is called addition by subtraction!   :D


Fathertime!


He hates people who don't agree with him.  I believe that is called Christianity.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 24, 2015, 02:31:10 AM
You believe? And you say atheism is not a religion
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on January 24, 2015, 08:51:12 AM
Quote
"No Money? Eat Less!" United Russia Lawmaker Advises

A lawmaker from the ruling United Russia party has offered his advice to Russians struggling to pay for food amid the country's soaring inflation: "Eat less."

Food prices in the Urals' Sverdlovsk region have increased by around 25 percent compared to the same period last year, figures cited by regional lawmaker Ilya Gaffner indicate, but he said it was "not that bad," according to video footage posted online Thursday.

Food price inflation in Russia has peaked over a sharp devaluation of the ruble currency and bans imposed on a range of European food imports in response to Western sanctions. Inflation is expected to accelerate even more this year.

During a televised visit to a local grocery store in Yekaterinburg, Gaffner suggested that Russians should draw inspiration from the most devastating periods in their country's history and enjoy the supposed health benefits of going hungry.

"We are all Russians, we have lived through hunger and cold," Gaffner told Novy Region television station.

"If supposedly there isn't enough money, people should think about their health and somehow eat less," he said lightheartedly.

... Some local inhabitants may be hard-pressed to appreciate the advice.

"I have a disabled son, he is constantly asking for sugar," a woman in the store told Gaffner. "I am forced to deny him, because there is simply no money at all anymore."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/no-money-eat-less-united-russia-lawmaker-advises-/514808.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on January 24, 2015, 09:13:28 AM

It was found out the US was supplying muhahideen with aid for 6 months prior to Soviet intervention.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html (http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html)



Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)Central Intelligence Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency) (CIA) program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen) prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan), from 1979 to 1989.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone)

The CIA were making covert moves against the Soviets all over the globe as was the Soviets against the U.S. as well. The U.S. aiding the Soviet enemies was nothing new even then. The aiding of the Mujahadeen wasn't a precursor to the Soviets invasion. The Soviets invaded because they thought their puppet government in Kabal was going to fall. The CIA aid was certainly helpful to the Muj but the government was likely going to fall any way. That aid you speak of was insignificant compared to the aid they received later on. Thus, it has little to nothing to do with provoking the Soviet invasion FTR
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 24, 2015, 10:08:00 AM
The CIA were making covert moves against the Soviets all over the globe as was the Soviets against the U.S. as well. The U.S. aiding the Soviet enemies was nothing new even then. The aiding of the Mujahadeen wasn't a precursor to the Soviets invasion. The Soviets invaded because they thought their puppet government in Kabal was going to fall. The CIA aid was certainly helpful to the Muj but the government was likely going to fall any way. That aid you speak of was insignificant compared to the aid they received later on. Thus, it has little to nothing to do with provoking the Soviet invasion FTR

And it has even less to do with what is going on in Ukraine, yet the trolls like "live from ukraine the kremlin" keep trying.

We armed the Muhadeen so that they could defend and then take back their own territory from an invading Army, the Soviets.  We never took any Afghani territory for ourselves.

The Russians arming the "separatists" are doing so because they are thieves who want to steal territory from a neighboring country, Ukraine.  Just like they already stole Crimea, they hope to steal more.

So just one small and glaring difference between US actions around the world, and the Soviet/Russian actions.

However it doesn't stop the trolls from trying to deflect from the true nature of what Russia is doing right now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 24, 2015, 10:08:52 AM

That's a very big if. I don't think that the west wants to go to war over a place that it doesn't want. I've said before that the worst thing that could happen to the EU is to 'win' Ukraine and then have to rebuild it. I think that would finish the EU, which is why I think the sanctions will quietly go away.


The West doesn't go to war over a place it doesn't want?


What is the West going to do when it is Poland's turn? Lithuania? Estonia? Latvia? Hungary? Romania? Czech Republic? Slovenia?


Steamer, history has proven that there will be a country next in line.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 24, 2015, 10:11:33 AM

Excuse no, explain yes. Russia doesn't need to have some big offensive push in Ukraine, just let them stew in their own juices and see if attitudes change.


That's Western thinking.


Wrong.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 24, 2015, 10:14:07 AM
You, Steamer and lFU hate America.  When are you leaving?


So, when are you going to offer to beat them up?  :-\
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 24, 2015, 10:15:02 AM

He hates people who don't agree with him.  I believe that is called Christianity.  ;)


LMFAO


Prime example.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 24, 2015, 11:30:48 AM

Do you think they're stupid? I showed you other news sites that also agree the Pentagon is defying Congress. It's not opinion, it's fact.

No Billy, it's not fact. It's Russian propaganda. They even use the same wording...

Pentagon 'defies Congress to buy Russian helicopters for Afghanistan'

http://rt.com/news/180236-russian-helicopters-pentagon-afghanistan/

Pentagon Insists on Buying Russian Helicopters for Afghanistan - Rosoboronexport

http://sputniknews.com/military/20140814/191992635/Pentagon-Insists-on-Buying-Russian-Helicopters-for-Afghanistan--.html

Don't buy into this crap it'll drive you nuts.

If you think the Pentagon did as Congress asked in 2013 when Russia was supplying arms to Assad, why did Congress have to request the Pentagon again in 2014 to stop buying helicopters from Russia after Russia invaded Ukraine? Congress too stupid to remember what they requested in 2013? They made the request twice because the Pentagon didn't listen to them the first time. Pentagon twice defied Congress and continued to buy those overpriced choppers.

Congress did not have to request the Pentagon (stop buying helicopters) again
in 2014. From yet another news source...

Pentagon cancels plans to buy Russian helicopters

 Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:49pm EST
..."(Reuters) - The Pentagon no longer will buy Russian helicopters for the Afghan Air Force from Rosoboronexport, a state-owned arms exporter that also sells weapons to the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, U.S. defense officials and a leading Senate opponent of such deals said on Wednesday.

The switch in Pentagon policy appears to end, at least for now, its plans to buy an additional 15 Russian Mi-17 helicopters for $345 million, sources familiar with the matter said."...

..."Defense Department spokeswoman Maureen Schumann said in an email: "After initially requesting funds from Congress in the FY14 (2014 fiscal year) budget to provide additional enhancements for the Afghan National Security Forces, the department has re-evaluated requirements in consultation with Congress."

"We currently do not have plans to purchase additional Mi17s from Rosoboronexport beyond those in the Afghan Program of Record,"
she said"...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/us-usa-russia-helicopters-idUSBRE9AC17720131113

No helicopter procurement in Fiscal Year 2014.  Now, if you can show me that the Pentagon bought helicopters after mid Nov 2013 I'd be mighty interested in reading it but I don't think you're gonna find anything supporting that claim.

Yes, there was some controversy  and Congress was questioning the Pentagon about the helicopters and/or their buying them but that took place in 2013 before the cancellation not 2014.

Congress wanted a complete stoppage of money and military equipment exchange with Russia effective immediately at the time requested.

Seems to me according to most reports Congress was in consultation with the Pentagon not ordering them to cease and desist.

France signed a contract with Russia in 2011 too but for a couple of ships but Obama didn't want them to honor their contract. Obama is a hypocrite or he really wanted to get money into Russia's hands. I betcha Obama is going to continue to allow American tax dollars to buy Russian parts for those choppers no matter how aggressive Russia gets in Ukraine.

And again, Billy. Several countries urged France to withhold delivery of the Mistrals but the final decision is with the French Government not Obama, Cameron, Harper or any other world leader/nation. It is they who are towing the line. I'm sure they've taken those requests under advisement but the final decision rests with them.

I don't think anyone, NATO or the U.S. is buying those parts right now. Rosoboronexport was included in this last round of sanctions Obama signed into law in Dec.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 24, 2015, 01:56:07 PM
In Crimea came "Load-200" (LIST)
Founder of the dead on the Ukrainian Donbass Russian soldiers' load-200 "and the eponymous site, human rights activist Elena Vasileva published a list of the Crimean killed during the war in eastern Ukraine

This writes the " New time ", the Espreso.TV .

"Load-200" continues to go to. Now already in the Crimea. Crimea morgue filled completely, and home dovezut zinc few "- said Vasiliev.

Human rights activist published a list of names of those who have left the Crimea war on the territory of Donbass and died there.

In addition, according to human rights activist, for all time in the hostilities in the Donbas killed more than five thousand Russian contract. This "relatives came up thousands of" cargo-200 ".

"The Russian population Putin - nothing. And he very clearly shows is an example of the behavior of dead Russian soldiers ... Ukrainians, no matter how evil they are not painted, take DNA in each of the deceased, picked up on the battlefield. Among them are many Russian citizens without any identification marks, "- says Vasilyev.

Meanwhile, the Russian Defense Ministry can not or do not want to organize a DNA test adds human rights activist.

In general, according to Vasilyeva, from the beginning of December in Ukraine killed more than 300 Russian soldiers. The activist also announced its victims, whose bodies come in.


http://espreso.tv/news/2014/12/15/do_krymu_prybuv_quothruz_200quot_spysok
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 24, 2015, 02:04:38 PM
Ex-terrorist leader: “Referendum in Crimea was a farce”


Igor Girkin, ex-minister of defense of the so-called Donetsk Republic, who fled Donetsk in August of 2014, when Ukrainian forces began their suppression of terrorist forces, has now become a peculiar kind of self-whistle blower. Recently, sitting in a studio of  the “Polit-Ring” debate TV show featured by something called NeuroMirTV, Girkin has openly described some of the schemes which were implemented during the illegal referendum in Crimea in the spring of 2014, which was later used as the excuse by Russia for the annexation of the peninsula. As his opponent is passionately describing how Crimean outfits of the Ukrainian army and the police were, in his opinion, in all ways supporting of “people’s desire to reunite with Russia”, Girking quietly laughs, and retorts:

“Have you actually been to Crimea during the referendum? Well, I have. I have been there since February the 20th. What you are describing here is absolute rubbish. There were no policemen who supported our side at that time. The only law-enforcement subdivision that has joined our ranks back then was the Berkut. The rest of the law-enforcement agencies remained under control of Ukrainian Ministry of Internal, and kept carrying out the MIA’s orders. Yes, sometimes they were sabotaging these orders, but all in all they were under Ukrainian control. I haven’t seen any support from official governmental representatives in Simferopol. Our troops had to force the deputies into the Oblast Council hall so that these representatives would vote in favor of our initiatives. I know this because I have been at the time commandeering one of such militant teams and I’ve seen it all from the inside. We had absolutely no support from the people, not to mention the army. The Ukrainian army units remained loyal to Kyiv as they were. Furthermore, most of the army remained that way. The only thing that made what we have accomplished in Crimea possible was the presence of Russian army.” (Fragment of video in Russian):



Girkin’s militant façade is pretty much gone today, as if the ex-terrorist is trying to distance himself from responsibility for his crimes. His Cossack style wavy hair has become neatly trimmed; his camouflage is now replaced with cozy Mr. Rogers cardigan. Though outspoken about the atrocities he caused, of which he seems to be nevertheless proud, an ex-rebel prefers to maintain somewhat neutral towards the war today, though bitter about, as he puts it, the lack of Russian support in the East of Ukraine. Whether this is his way of agitating for further Russian invasion or simply a covert lie to avoid awkward questions about his rushed departure from Donetsk in the end of August 2014 is hard to tell. What is undeniable though is that Girking is not too keen about returning to his “rebellion” activities in Ukraine. Perhaps it is time for his comrades to follow their leader’s example. After all, he is still alive and in one piece.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/24/ex-terrorist-leader-referendum-in-crimea-was-a-farce/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 24, 2015, 02:07:05 PM
Spot report by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM), 24 January 2015: Shelling Incident on Olimpiiska Street in Mariupol

..."At approximately 09:15hrs on 24 January, the SMM in government-controlled Mariupol heard at its location incoming massed Multi-Launch Rocket System (MLRS) attacks from a north-east direction, consisting of an extremely heavy barrage lasting 35 seconds. Twenty minutes later the SMM received information from the Joint Centre for Control and Co-ordination (JCCC) in Mariupol and other sources, that shelling had occurred in the area of Olimpiiska Street, in Ordzhonikidzevskyi district, 8.5 km north-east of Mariupol city centre, approximately 400 metres from a Ukrainian Armed Forces checkpoint.

At 10:20hrs the SMM went to Olimpiiska Street and saw seven adult civilians dead. The SMM observed in an area of 1.6 km by 1.1 km, including an open market, multiple impacts on buildings, retail shops, homes and a school. The SMM observed cars on fire and windows facing the north-eastern side of a nine-storey building shattered. The SMM was able to count 19 rocket strikes and is certain there are more. Four hospitals and the emergency service in the city informed the SMM that at least 20 people died and 75 people were injured and hospitalized. Ten of the wounded were in a critical condition, according to a hospital representative.

The SMM conducted a crater analysis and its initial assessment showed that the impacts were caused by Grad and Uragan rockets. According to the impact analysis, the Grad rockets originated from a north-easterly direction, in the area of Oktyabr (19 km north-east of Olimpiiska Street), and the Uragan rockets from an easterly direction, in the area of Zaichenko (15 km east of Olimpiiska Street), both controlled by the “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”).

At 13:02hrs and 13:21hrs the SMM heard again incoming MLRS salvos lasting for eight seconds, from an easterly direction. At a distance of 300 metres the SMM saw smoke above the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ checkpoint number 14 (8.9 km north-east of Mariupol city centre), just several hundred metres away from where the shelling had hit in Olimpiiska Street."...

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/136061

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 24, 2015, 03:03:00 PM
NATO Secretary General statement on the attack on Mariupol


Press Release (2015) 015
Issued on 24 Jan. 2015


..."Fighting in eastern Ukraine has sharply escalated, with indications of a large-scale offensive by Russian-backed separatists at multiple locations in the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts as well as against the city of Mariupol. This is in utter disregard of the ceasefire. The shelling of residential areas in the city of Mariupol from separatist-controlled territory has cost the lives of at least 20 civilians, and injured many more.

For several months we have seen the presence of Russian forces in eastern Ukraine, as well as a substantial increase in Russian heavy equipment such as tanks, artillery and advanced air defence systems. Russian troops in eastern Ukraine are supporting these offensive operations with command and control systems, air defence systems with advanced surface-to-air missiles, unmanned aerial systems, advanced multiple rocket launcher systems, and electronic warfare systems.

I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_116852.htm

 Sorry, what was that again...

..."I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

You strongly urge!?! See here you f*cking' monkey get your collective asses up from that round table of yours and start doing the job you get paid for.  I promise you this; If you don't start showing some initiative there's going to be a popular movement started to personally hold you people in that cluster f*ckfest you call NATO headquarters collectively and personally responsible for criminal negligence and incompetence for standing idle when you should be acting.

Boneheaded press releases don't cut it. Get to work.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 24, 2015, 03:09:10 PM
NATO Secretary General statement on the attack on Mariupol


Press Release (2015) 015
Issued on 24 Jan. 2015


..."Fighting in eastern Ukraine has sharply escalated, with indications of a large-scale offensive by Russian-backed separatists at multiple locations in the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts as well as against the city of Mariupol. This is in utter disregard of the ceasefire. The shelling of residential areas in the city of Mariupol from separatist-controlled territory has cost the lives of at least 20 civilians, and injured many more.

For several months we have seen the presence of Russian forces in eastern Ukraine, as well as a substantial increase in Russian heavy equipment such as tanks, artillery and advanced air defence systems. Russian troops in eastern Ukraine are supporting these offensive operations with command and control systems, air defence systems with advanced surface-to-air missiles, unmanned aerial systems, advanced multiple rocket launcher systems, and electronic warfare systems.

I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_116852.htm

 Sorry, what was that again...

..."I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

You strongly urge!?! See here you f*cking' monkey get your collective asses up from that round table of yours and start doing the job you get paid for.  I promise you this; If you don't start showing some initiative there's going to be a popular movement started to personally hold you people in that cluster f*ckfest you call NATO headquarters collectively and personally responsible for criminal negligence and incompetence for standing idle when you should be acting.

Boneheaded press releases don't cut it. Get to work.

Brass

Great post Brass.  We are in agreement 100%

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Изумруд on January 24, 2015, 03:14:38 PM
Wow, this guy was incredibly lucky, it doesn't get much closer than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD_bwzPbGrA&feature=youtu.be


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 24, 2015, 03:16:27 PM
No Billy, it's not fact. It's Russian propaganda. They even use the same wording...

Don't buy into this crap it'll drive you nuts.



Just because Russian media reports the same thing Western media reports doesn't mean it's all propaganda. Russian media is capable of telling the truth sometimes and Western media is capable of their own free thinking without Russian media's help.


Seems to me according to most reports Congress was in consultation with the Pentagon not ordering them to cease and desist.



I did it before and I'll do it again by posting links that report Congress wanted the Pentagon to terminate the contracts, not honoring existing contracts, not pay, and not take delivery of unfinished, overpriced helicopters.


http://www.defenseone.com/management/2014/05/pure-home-state-politics-behind-russian-helicopter-opposition/84970/


http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324170004578636323792403926


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/18/senators-push-to-cut-off-pentagon-contracts-with-russia-amid-ukraine-crisis/


I don't think anyone, NATO or the U.S. is buying those parts right now. Rosoboronexport was included in this last round of sanctions Obama signed into law in Dec.



You forgot to mention the small print on that last round of sanctions. The bill authorizes sanctions against Russia's defense and energy industries, including the arms exporter Rosoboronexport. The president may waive them for national security reasons. Those helicopters were bought to fight terrorists, which is a national security issue, because they're the only ones Afghan pilots can fly but for some reason we still have to pay for their training. Go figure. The President and the generals he appointed will buy more overpriced products from Rosoboronexport, Russia's main arms dealer, because the Prez added a waiver to the sanctions for a reason. He needs to get money into someone's hands who lives in Russia.


http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-aid-bill-heads-to-obama/26743453.html


If Obama weren't into politics and participated on this forum, I'd swear he'd be pro-Putin. Although our intelligence says Russia was always doing things counter productive to democracy and American interests, Obama hit the reset button with them trying to be their friend and reward them with profitable arms deals. Helicopters aren't the only thing we are buying from Russia. Obama also rewards Iran richly just to lure them to negotiating table. Iran is the same country that supplied weapons to terrorists to fight our troops in the Middle East. Obama likes to make friends in all the wrong places. Reagan would let Israel bomb Iran's nuke plant just as he let them do Iraq's. It would be cheaper and we'll sleep better when fanatics, who kill our troops, aren't rewarded. I think the only reason Obama is acting(weakly) against Russia now, is to make a showing he cares about people in the free world. After all, he is their leader. I don't think he'll shed a tear if Ukraine is lost to Russia.


I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_116852.htm

 Sorry, what was that again...

..."I strongly urge Russia to stop its military, political and financial support for the separatists, stop destabilising Ukraine and respect its international commitments."...

You strongly urge!?! See here you f*cking' monkey get your collective asses up from that round table of yours and start doing the job you get paid for.  I promise you this; If you don't start showing some initiative there's going to be a popular movement started to personally hold you people in that cluster f*ckfest you call NATO headquarters collectively and personally responsible for criminal negligence and incompetence for standing idle when you should be acting.

Boneheaded press releases don't cut it. Get to work.



That I totally agree with you on. Every time Russia acts aggressive, the West strongly urges them to stop. They sound like a broken record repeating themselves with the same words, different day with no results. They don't know how to get results. They haven't got the slightest clue that their tough talk isn't going to stop Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 24, 2015, 03:21:17 PM
The UN said the same thing today.. Except they threatened to put a bad mark on their report card.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 24, 2015, 04:15:53 PM
A woman I dated before, and in my trip reports, lives in the area that was shelled in Mariupol. Almost nobody in Mariupol wants to be part of Russia. Last year there were many demonstrations with lots of people in support of Kiev.

It is time to just obliterate all the Russian troops and terrorist with a few cruise missiles. The missiles that were used are not even remotely precision munitions. I have no put all my congressmen on speed dial in my phone. I will be calling them every hour they are in the office. The Russian aggression has got to stop.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 24, 2015, 04:24:59 PM
The CIA were making covert moves against the Soviets all over the globe as was the Soviets against the U.S. as well. The U.S. aiding the Soviet enemies was nothing new even then. The aiding of the Mujahadeen wasn't a precursor to the Soviets invasion. The Soviets invaded because they thought their puppet government in Kabal was going to fall. The CIA aid was certainly helpful to the Muj but the government was likely going to fall any way. That aid you speak of was insignificant compared to the aid they received later on. Thus, it has little to nothing to do with provoking the Soviet invasion FTR


The aid was done so knowing there was a high probability to bring in the Soviets.  The amount of aid wasn't important.  Getting the Soviets into a war was.  Interfering in another country in order to bring down the Soviets.


It would be silly for any of us not to remember what has been done to bring down the Soviets and say it wouldn't happen to any threat America perceived and Russia is a perceived threat.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on January 24, 2015, 06:17:33 PM

The aid was done so knowing there was a high probability to bring in the Soviets.  The amount of aid wasn't important.  Getting the Soviets into a war was.  Interfering in another country in order to bring down the Soviets.


It would be silly for any of us not to remember what has been done to bring down the Soviets and say it wouldn't happen to any threat America perceived and Russia is a perceived threat.

The earlier aid was tit for tat. The Soviets were doing the same thing to the puppet governments of the U.S. in Central and South America. The aid was a very minute' contribution to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Brezinky IMHO was doing nothing more than bloviating. If the truth were known, the U.S. had been fomenting anything in Afghanistan that would cause the Soviets problems long before 6 months prior to the invasion. Both governments were looking for scabs to pick. That is the only part of your post I disagree with. It wasn't until after the invasion that the real aid starting pouring in.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 24, 2015, 07:42:09 PM
The earlier aid was tit for tat. The Soviets were doing the same thing to the puppet governments of the U.S. in Central and South America. The aid was a very minute' contribution to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Brezinky IMHO was doing nothing more than bloviating. If the truth were known, the U.S. had been fomenting anything in Afghanistan that would cause the Soviets problems long before 6 months prior to the invasion. Both governments were looking for scabs to pick. That is the only part of your post I disagree with. It wasn't until after the invasion that the real aid starting pouring in.


Ah, understood and have no doubt this was happening on both sides.  It certainly is possible Brezinky is more about stroking his ego so to speak.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 24, 2015, 08:03:52 PM
You strongly urge!?! See here you f*cking' monkey get your collective asses up from that round table of yours and start doing the job you get paid for.  I promise you this; If you don't start showing some initiative there's going to be a popular movement started to personally hold you people in that cluster f*ckfest you call NATO headquarters collectively and personally responsible for criminal negligence and incompetence for standing idle when you should be acting.

How do you really feel?  Unfortunately you know that nothing in the NATO charter will officially allow them to stop a Russian invasion.  Other then that, perhaps now you know how many Americans feel about our "President". 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 24, 2015, 08:09:41 PM
You strongly urge!?! See here you f*cking' monkey get your collective asses up from that round table of yours and start doing the job you get paid for.  I promise you this; If you don't start showing some initiative there's going to be a popular movement started to personally hold you people in that cluster f*ckfest you call NATO headquarters collectively and personally responsible for criminal negligence and incompetence for standing idle when you should be acting.

Boneheaded press releases don't cut it. Get to work.

Brass

Exactly-- no secret on what is really happening--so do something.
In the last week the despair my Ukrainian friends& associates on the spot  have expressed to me  is indescribable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 24, 2015, 08:16:13 PM

AC, how many times have you been on moderated status?  It seems you're on watch status every other week or so.


I can see you have some internal emotional problems with anger whenever someone says something you don't like.

Oh okay.  Apparently when somebody points out that you are making off-topic posts which have absolutely nothing to do with the situation in Ukraine, a member of the former Soviet Union, which is what this forum is about, and that you are obviously making them to try to deflect from what the Russians are doing in Ukraine, suddenly that person has "emotional problems with anger".

In other words you are guilty of exactly what I described, which is attempting to justify Russia's war of aggression and conquest in Ukraine, by posting more off-topic nonsense.  You obviously don't have the ability to dispute what I've written, so you try to besmirch the character of the messenger (myself).  Any more nonsense you would like to post about this?

Your worthless and irrational argument is called an argument of "moral equivalence".  Straight out of the pro-Russian propaganda book.  But of course it's a failure, because as I pointed out the USA did not help the Afghani's with intention of stealing their land, we helped them to prevent their land from being stolen by the invading Russian Soviets.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 24, 2015, 08:19:08 PM
Can we realistically expect anything from Stoltenberg?  He worked for the KGB.

But wait there's more.  Merkel is his mentor:

Quote


Then we cannot omit his mentor and friend Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany. Merkel speaks fluent Russian and had a membership card in the Free German Youth movement which was managed by the Socialist Party out of East Germany.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 24, 2015, 08:45:41 PM


I am just enjoy your sheepish comments trying to portray everyone who doesn't agree with you Pro-Russian.   



Maybe when we see you condemning the Russian invasion and killing of civilians in Ukraine-- then anything you say may mean something.
Instead-- we read every excuse possible.
Not hard today-- lets hear you say that it is a disgrace that the Russian Army is responsible for civilian deaths in Mariupol.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 24, 2015, 09:10:53 PM
Maybe when we see you condemning the Russian invasion and killing of civilians in Ukraine-- then anything you say may mean something.
Instead-- we read every excuse possible.
Not hard today-- lets hear you say that it is a disgrace that the Russian Army is responsible for civilian deaths in Mariupol.

This is, I'm afraid, the beginning of Putin's real all-out invasion to try and get his land bridge.  Hopefully the genuine and decent people in this World will urge Congress and whoever their government is to stand up to this tyranny. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 24, 2015, 09:12:13 PM
Maybe when we see you condemning the Russian invasion and killing of civilians in Ukraine-- then anything you say may mean something.
Instead-- we read every excuse possible.
Not hard today-- lets hear you say that it is a disgrace that the Russian Army is responsible for civilian deaths in Mariupol.


I don't need to condemn anything to you.  I don't know why you insist on others to tell you what you want to hear but it's goofy as hell.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 24, 2015, 09:20:03 PM
Exactly-- no secret on what is really happening--so do something.
In the last week the despair my Ukrainian friends& associates on the spot  have expressed to me  is indescribable.


It appears doubtful the USA is going to do much....this is not an issue foremost in the minds of the American public, most barely even know there is bloodshed....maybe Australia should take the lead....we will come in and mop up afterwords, which is what we normally do with these European issues. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 24, 2015, 09:44:06 PM
Tell us again how honorable it is to be silent in the face of evil?  Or how ignorance is a source of pride?  Or what US money should go to US needs?  Your  chimeric patriotism is as intriguing as the sex appeal of bald heads.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 24, 2015, 09:52:25 PM
Tell us again how honorable it is to be silent in the face of evil?  Or how ignorance is a source of pride?  Or what US money should go to US needs?  Your  chimeric patriotism is as intriguing as the sex appeal of bald heads.


You don't know honor....never have! 




(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/ad/ad59d37bbd7676603c921002328199d4e7447c7ba5cdb2950b26e5ecdf5577d1.jpg)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 25, 2015, 10:59:54 AM
Gawd I LOVE reading all the 'good' news from Russia.  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Russians Must Adapt to More Unemployment - Deputy Prime Minister

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russians-face-rising-unemployment-deputy-prime-minister/514842.html

Mass Layoffs Sign of Russia's Growing Crisis, Kudrin Says

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/mass-layoffs-sign-of-russia-s-growing-crisis-kudrin-says/514849.html

Russia Launches First Sugar Price-Fixing Cases as Inflation Rockets

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-launches-first-sugar-price-fixing-cases-as-inflation-rockets/514841.html

Russia Faces $40 Billion Battle to Stave off Banking Crisis

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-faces-40-billion-battle-to-stave-off-banking-crisis/514847.html

Rosneft Defends Medal for 'Grown Man' Ivan Sechin ( more corruption)

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/rosneft-defends-medal-for-grown-man-ivan-sechin/514815.html

EU Energy Chief Says Russia's Turkish Stream Gas Project Won't Work

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/eu-energy-chief-says-russia-s-turkish-stream-gas-project-won-t-work/514817.html

Kudrin Predicts Up to $100 Billion Capital Flight From Russia This Year

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/kudrin-predicts-100-billion-capital-flight-from-russia-this-year/514821.html

PayPal Cuts Service To Crimea Over U.S. Sanctions

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/paypal-cuts-service-to-crimea-over-u-s-sanctions/514819.html

2015 Promises Bad News for Russia

http://sptimes.ru/story/41671

Russia Left Out in the Cold by Its Neighbors

http://sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=41668

AND

Best of all!


Carl's Jr. Causes Controversy as It Pulls Out of Russia

http://sptimes.ru/story/41621





















Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 25, 2015, 11:04:05 AM
Gawd I LOVE reading all the 'good' news from Russia.  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Russians Must Adapt to More Unemployment - Deputy Prime Minister

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russians-face-rising-unemployment-deputy-prime-minister/514842.html

Mass Layoffs Sign of Russia's Growing Crisis, Kudrin Says

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/mass-layoffs-sign-of-russia-s-growing-crisis-kudrin-says/514849.html

Russia Launches First Sugar Price-Fixing Cases as Inflation Rockets

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-launches-first-sugar-price-fixing-cases-as-inflation-rockets/514841.html

Russia Faces $40 Billion Battle to Stave off Banking Crisis

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-faces-40-billion-battle-to-stave-off-banking-crisis/514847.html

Rosneft Defends Medal for 'Grown Man' Ivan Sechin ( more corruption)

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/rosneft-defends-medal-for-grown-man-ivan-sechin/514815.html

EU Energy Chief Says Russia's Turkish Stream Gas Project Won't Work

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/eu-energy-chief-says-russia-s-turkish-stream-gas-project-won-t-work/514817.html

Kudrin Predicts Up to $100 Billion Capital Flight From Russia This Year

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/kudrin-predicts-100-billion-capital-flight-from-russia-this-year/514821.html

PayPal Cuts Service To Crimea Over U.S. Sanctions

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/paypal-cuts-service-to-crimea-over-u-s-sanctions/514819.html

2015 Promises Bad News for Russia

http://sptimes.ru/story/41671

Russia Left Out in the Cold by Its Neighbors

http://sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=41668

AND

Best of all!


Carl's Jr. Causes Controversy as It Pulls Out of Russia

http://sptimes.ru/story/41621

No PayPal in Crimea?  How are all of those agency gals gonna get paid?  I also wonder how ADate, with company headquarters in Moscow, is keeping tabs on all the Pay-per-chat girls in Ukraine.  As a matter of interest, if you were a Ukrainian woman and knew that you could list with any online agency, would you currently choose a company based in Russia?  I wonder how many of the agencies are getting paid in Rubles and not dollars? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 25, 2015, 11:10:53 AM
Belarus declares Martial Law after the "Little Green Men" show up there.

Another invasion of a 'brother' soon??


http://world.lb.ua/news/2015/01/25/293249_poyavlenie_zelenih_chelovechkov.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 25, 2015, 11:12:35 AM
Moscow will defend Ukrainian agenda until the bitter end.


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/lavrov-russia-to-push-ukraine-agenda-until-bitter-end/514730.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 25, 2015, 11:18:26 AM
Belarus declares Martial Law after the "Little Green Men" show up there.

Another invasion of a 'brother'??

http://world.lb.ua/news/2015/0...ih_chelovechkov.html

Mike, that link does not work.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 25, 2015, 11:20:12 AM

What a 'Junk' Rating Would Mean for Russia

Russian officials and experts warned Wednesday that an expected decision by Standard and Poor's to deprive Russia of its investment-grade credit rating could cost the country up to $30 billion and drain more money from an economy that is already entering recession.

Major credit rating agencies Fitch and Standard and Poor's currently rank Russia one notch above junk.

Standard and Poor's placed Russia on negative credit watch last month and said the country's status would be re-evaluated in mid-January.

A downgrade to junk would mark Russia's return to the investment grade it held until 2004 and could trigger a sell-off by conservative investment funds barred from buying sub-investment grade securities. Analysts also warned the move could spook equity and bond traders.

"It's not worth underestimating the indirect effects on the market," said Konstantin Artyomov, a money manger at Raiffeisen Capital in Moscow, in written comments Wednesday.

$30 Billion of Consequences

If Standard and Poor's withdraw Russia's investment-grade credit rating it could activate clauses in debt agreements causing Russia's repayment deadlines to be brought forward, according to Economic Development Minister Alexei Ulyukayev.

"If Standard and Poor's make a move then there will be material consequences," Ulyukayev told Russian radio station Business FM on Wednesday.

"We can't say exactly what sum, intuitively it's about $20 billion to $30 billion."
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/what-a-junk-rating-means-for-russia/514387.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 25, 2015, 11:22:53 AM
Mike, that link does not work.

 Fixed
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 25, 2015, 11:31:49 AM
Belarus declares Martial Law after the "Little Green Men" show up there.

Another invasion of a 'brother' soon??


http://world.lb.ua/news/2015/01/25/293249_poyavlenie_zelenih_chelovechkov.html (http://world.lb.ua/news/2015/01/25/293249_poyavlenie_zelenih_chelovechkov.html)

It doesn't say they are invading yet BUT if the little green men show up in Belarus, they WILL consider it an invasion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 25, 2015, 11:36:03 AM
The UN said the same thing today.. Except they threatened to put a bad mark on their report card.


Russia blocked the UN's strong condemnation of the Mariupol attacks but that did not stop the EU and John Kerry from issuing out strong statements. “I join my European counterparts in condemning in the strongest terms today's horrific assault by Russia-backed separatists on civilian neighborhoods,” Kerry said.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/25/us-condemns-new-separatist-attack-in-ukraine-mariupol-points-finger-at-russia/?intcmp=latestnews


Separatist leader Alexander Zakharchenko announced the start of an offensive against Mariupol  the UN "condemned in the strongest terms such irresponsible announcements."


Not only does the UN and Western nation condemn the attacks in the strongest terms, they condemn the announcements of pro Russians in the strongest terms. We also got a call, for the 100th time, "an immediate de-escalation of violence," We got real MEN working for us. I guess if they keep repeating themselves enough using only the strongest terms, pro Russians are going to listen.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/01/25/russia-blocks-un-condemnation-shelling-ukraine-city/?intcmp=latestnews


It doesn't say they are invading yet BUT if the little green men show up in Belarus, they WILL consider it an invasion.


Months ago there were evidence Russian troops were in Belarus and there were no problems arising from that. I wouldn't doubt Putin is looking for allies at this time. He's met or have plans to meet with some of the world's worst leaders and Belarus Prez is in the top 10 in that category. Maybe some people were right in that Putin doesn't want all of Ukraine. He might share a piece with Belarus.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 25, 2015, 11:38:15 AM
In Brutally Critical Open Letter, Russian-Born Scholar Talks Of His 'Overwhelming Nausea' Over Putin's Russia



Renowned biophysicist Maksim Frank-Kamenetsky left his native Russia 21 years ago to settle in the United States.

Last fall, he returned to Moscow on a four-month teaching assignment.

But instead of the homecoming he had looked forward to, his stay in Russia left him so upset that he decided to pen an outspoken letter to Russians.

"During my stay here, an overwhelming feeling of nausea gradually came over me and grew stronger all the time," he wrote in his letter, which has been widely circulated since it was posted online earlier this month. "There has not been such centralization, such concentration of power in this vast country in the hands of one person since Stalin's time."

Frank-Kamenetsky, a professor of biomedical engineering at Boston University famous for his contribution in the field of DNA topology, says he was shocked to witness what he describes as a "rabid" adulation for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"It's a bona fide cult of personality, like the one I witnessed as a child," he tells RFE/RL's Russian Service.

'Idiotic Mantra'

Such wake-up calls have become rare in Russia, where Western criticism of the country's actions in Ukraine have shored up public support for the Kremlin and its increasingly defiant, isolationist stance.

In his letter, Kamenetsky laments the "idiotic mantra" that he says is being trumpeted by most Russians, including intellectuals, consisting of professing unconditional love for Russia and all things Russian.

He says he was also struck by the rampant anti-Americanism among Russians, a trend he attributes to an enduring postimperial complex caused by the Soviet Union's collapse. Frank-Kamenetsky recalls his consternation upon finding racist T-shirts lampooning U.S. President Barack Obama on sale in Moscow's most famous street, the Arbat, alongside T-shirts extolling Putin as "The Best President."

READ THE FULL LETTER IN ENGLISH HERE

 

"Almost everyone is infected, to various degrees, by this anti-Americanism," he says. "Surprisingly, even those who understand the inadmissibility of what Putin is doing in Ukraine don't miss an opportunity to recall the mistakes of U.S. administrations -- the bombing of Yugoslavia, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and so on and so forth -- and say that America's crimes are much worse and more dangerous that Putin's mistakes."

In his letter, Frank-Kamenetsky takes issue with Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine last March, a move welcomed by a majority of Russians -- 73 percent, according to a September poll by the independent Levada Center.

He calls the annexation a "dangerous precedent" and points out that even Nazi leader Adolf Hitler held talks with France and Great Britain before annexing the German-speaking Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia.

"What about the so-called Kaliningrad region, i.e. Koenigsberg and East Prussia?" the letter continues. "Is this also Russian soil? Or is it German?"

'A Horrible End Or Endless Horror'

Frank-Kamenetsky, who regularly travels to Russia, says his departure from the country this time filled him with unprecedented relief. He says Russia, with its increasingly palpable atmosphere of uncertainty and fear, is sliding back to Soviet ways.

"This fear is well-founded because no one knows what the next step is going to be," he says. "One person is effectively in charge. This is also very scary since, in the light of current events, his ability to make appropriate decisions is highly questionable."

According to Frank-Kamenetsky, a new law requiring Russians with dual nationality to register with Russian migration authorities has also stoked fear in Russians living abroad.

The biophysicist, who holds both Russian and U.S. citizenship, chose to voluntarily register with Russian authorities. But he says many of his Russian colleagues and friends in the United States have resolved not to return to Russia.

"If people don't register within 60 days after entering the country, they risk administrative or criminal prosecution," he says. "This is why many people got really scared."

Fresh from his four-month stint in Russia, Frank-Kamenetsky is not optimistic about the country's prospects. He believes that unless Moscow changes course, Russia's political isolation, combined with the rapid slide of the ruble, spell disaster.

"If a full-blown crisis breaks out, there will be two options: a horrible end [for the regime] or endless horror [for the Russian people]," he predicts. "I think there is no need to say which I would prefer."

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-frank-kamenetsky-open-letter/26805995.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 25, 2015, 11:54:12 AM
Belarus declares Martial Law after the "Little Green Men" show up there.

Another invasion of a 'brother' soon??


http://world.lb.ua/news/2015/01/25/293249_poyavlenie_zelenih_chelovechkov.html

Looks like Belarus is preparing in advance for Russian bullsh*t.  Good for them!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 25, 2015, 12:17:30 PM

this is not an issue foremost in the minds of the American public, most barely even know there is bloodshed....



I talked to a soldier last week who said he didn't even know there were problems in Ukraine. After 2 tours in Iraq, he said he doesn't pay attention to the news anymore but will happily do the job the military asks of him. Lately, I rarely see any news about Ukraine or Russia on the front page of American news outlets. Americans aren't emotionally attached to what is happening over there and don't care to read it. Maybe if Putin talks about nuking us more often, that will get American's attention.


we will come in and mop up afterwords, which is what we normally do with these European issues. 



In the end, that is probably what's going to happen. We will not only have to help Ukraine's economy, we will have to rebuild all the cities Russia and their thugs are destroying and bury the dead. The longer we wait, the more expensive and deadlier it's going to get.



It appears doubtful the USA is going to do much



I've been reading about the December sanctions and aid package for Ukraine a bipartisan Congress approved. Obama is weakening his support for Ukraine and didn't agree with it. Congress had to water down the sanctions so much to encourage Obama not to veto. Yes, Obama threatened to veto sanctions against Russia and refuse aid to Ukraine if he believe it to be too much.


The sanctions are supposed to target Russia's main arms exporter but now Obama gets to choose 3 items from a menu of 9 to apply on those getting sanctioned. Some of the items he gets to choose from are silly such as denying American visas to those associated with companies being sanctioned. I guess no vacation in Hawaii for them.


There are waivers in the bill that allows Obama to continue to buy overpriced Russian arms to supply our allies with under the disguise those arms will be used against terrorists. Recently we've been paying $10 million+ over list prices for Russian choppers. For some reason Obama and the generals he appointed say we don't have military equipment qualified to fight terrorists in Afghanistan and are intent on buying overpriced Russian military hardware.


The bill also provides for $350 million in support that includes arms but Obama is allowed lots of discretion.  It is not clear how much of the authority granted under the legislation Obama will invoke if he ever invokes but he made it clear he doesn't want to get too far ahead of our EU allies or piss Russia off. I seriously doubt the West will get tough with Russia anytime soon especially with a weak leader of the free world that refuses to take the lead. Upon signing the law, the President stated that he does not intend to implement any sanctions authorized by the statute at this time. Sorry Ukraine. I didn't vote for him.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 25, 2015, 12:29:55 PM

Ah, understood and have no doubt this was happening on both sides.  It certainly is possible Brezinky is more about stroking his ego so to speak.

Good to see you listened to FP's reasoning.  RWD needs more such open-mindedness, even if you are skeptical of mainstream media.  ;D

Regarding your earlier post of a interview with Brezinsky, Carter did not  start the US covert operations in Afghanistan.   Such had long been active albeit before Carter took office.    The Soviets intervened militarily in December 1979 not because of the small CIA program,  but to quell the widespread Islamist fundamentalist rebellion against the Soviet-friendly Afghani government and USSR advisers.  Unlike the Russian intervention in Ukraine, the Soviet military was "invited" by the Marxist Afghani government. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 25, 2015, 12:30:21 PM
Looks like Belarus is preparing in advance for Russian bullsh*t.  Good for them!


Don't compliment them so fast. Little green men have been spotted in Belarus months ago an Russia didn't attack but those green men are there for a reason. How far away are rebels from Kiev now? How far is Belarus from Kiev? Location, location, location.


http://www.interpretermag.com/putin
-making-belarus-into-base-for-attacking
-kyiv-minsk-analyst-says/


http://nr2.com.ua/News/world_
and_russia/V-Gomele-poyavilis
-zelenye-chelovechki-FOTO-86474.html







Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 25, 2015, 01:07:44 PM

I talked to a soldier last week who said he didn't even know there were problems in Ukraine. After 2 tours in Iraq, he said he doesn't pay attention to the news anymore but will happily do the job the military asks of him. Lately, I rarely see any news about Ukraine or Russia on the front page of American news outlets. Americans aren't emotionally attached to what is happening over there and don't care to read it. Maybe if Putin talks about nuking us more often, that will get American's attention.


When I saw the chemical weapons discussion (which has gone nowhere in western media), one of the 1st things I thought was it was another attempt to get American attention. If indeed that was the reason for it being raised, it has failed so far, but there will be other efforts/gimmicks.   


I'm not surprised regarding your experience with the soldier....very few people I come across have the first clue about Ukraine and the issues there. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 25, 2015, 01:16:16 PM
I'm not surprised regarding your experience with the soldier....very few people I come across have the first clue about Ukraine and the issues there. 


Fathertime!


So is it any wonder that you didn't see anything in the media about gas? When was the last time that the 6:00 news even mentioned Ukraine to the general public? A month ago or more?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 25, 2015, 01:20:48 PM

So is it any wonder that you didn't see anything in the media about gas? When was the last time that the 6:00 news even mentioned Ukraine to the general public? A month ago or more?


Clearly Ukraine is off the radar screen in terms of  very much network news time.   Also nothing about gas attacks is even mentioned on the websites. Some might say that means it likely didn't happen, others might say it is a conspiracy in the western media.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 25, 2015, 01:43:08 PM
I did see a recent video that showed a wounded soldier with his leg twitching a fair amount. But that was a day or so before the report.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 25, 2015, 01:47:11 PM
Newsrooms want to protect Obama and this story doesn't make Obama look good.  Fox and the right wing media serve special or corporate interests and Russia is a $ 2 Billion economy, Ukraine about 10% of that.  Also Ukrainian news reporting is hard to report.  It takes a cultural understanding that most Americans don't get.  More Americans know where Beruit or Ramadi is to Mariupol or Lugansk.

But Ukraine and more importantly Russia will be an issue in 2016.  Clinton will be more hawkish in her statements as she has to create space between her photo opportunity with Lavrov and present realties on the ground.  The GOP and its crowd of candidates will battle it out.  And journalists who never asked Obama or his very capable State Department such questions will pitch more fast balls than Randy Johnson after a strong cup of coffee.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 25, 2015, 01:59:16 PM
Just because Russian media reports the same thing Western media reports doesn't mean it's all propaganda. Russian media is capable of telling the truth sometimes and Western media is capable of their own free thinking without Russian media's help.

Not if they're being untruthful as they are being in reporting the Pentagon was defying Congress. They weren't.

I did it before and I'll do it again by posting links that report Congress wanted the Pentagon to terminate the contracts, not honoring existing contracts, not pay, and not take delivery of unfinished, overpriced helicopters.


http://www.defenseone.com/management/2014/05/pure-home-state-politics-behind-russian-helicopter-opposition/84970/


http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324170004578636323792403926


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/18/senators-push-to-cut-off-pentagon-contracts-with-russia-amid-ukraine-crisis/

And that's exactly what the Pentagon did, terminate the contracts. All your links support that.

You forgot to mention the small print on that last round of sanctions. The bill authorizes sanctions against Russia's defense and energy industries, including the arms exporter Rosoboronexport. The president may waive them for national security reasons. Those helicopters were bought to fight terrorists, which is a national security issue, because they're the only ones Afghan pilots can fly but for some reason we still have to pay for their training. Go figure. The President and the generals he appointed will buy more overpriced products from Rosoboronexport, Russia's main arms dealer, because the Prez added a waiver to the sanctions for a reason. He needs to get money into someone's hands who lives in Russia.


http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-aid-bill-heads-to-obama/26743453.html

All Bills and Laws have these type of provisions/clauses included. I have nothing to add to paying more than some thought but it seems that's the Pentagon way, Republican or Democrat administrations. It'd be nice for the taxpayer if they didn't but it is what it is.

If Obama weren't into politics and participated on this forum, I'd swear he'd be pro-Putin. Although our intelligence says Russia was always doing things counter productive to democracy and American interests, Obama hit the reset button with them trying to be their friend and reward them with profitable arms deals. Helicopters aren't the only thing we are buying from Russia. Obama also rewards Iran richly just to lure them to negotiating table. Iran is the same country that supplied weapons to terrorists to fight our troops in the Middle East. Obama likes to make friends in all the wrong places. Reagan would let Israel bomb Iran's nuke plant just as he let them do Iraq's. It would be cheaper and we'll sleep better when fanatics, who kill our troops, aren't rewarded. I think the only reason Obama is acting(weakly) against Russia now, is to make a showing he cares about people in the free world. After all, he is their leader. I don't think he'll shed a tear if Ukraine is lost to Russia.

Yep, like I've been saying for years history is going to not look kindly on his administration. The world has become a far more dangerous place in the last six years and the scary part is there's two more to go.

That I totally agree with you on. Every time Russia acts aggressive, the West strongly urges them to stop. They sound like a broken record repeating themselves with the same words, different day with no results. They don't know how to get results. They haven't got the slightest clue that their tough talk isn't going to stop Putin.

It's very frustrating to me personally. In the mid 90s I started noticing erosion in the social fabric and political order in the West. My wife at the time and friends used to say I was being the cynic when I'd comment on it. They don't say that anymore.

President Obama is not the cause of the disease, he's just another symptom. I stopped criticizing his administration after the second election because he's what the American public wants. He's the pied piper leading them off the cliff.

We the people (of the west) are hastening our own downfall. We're the ones marching to our own destruction. When a celebrity's latest Botox treatment gets top billing over an aggressor nation mass murdering citizens of their neighboring countries in the national news because that's what the polling shows the viewer's want; we have problems.

What's happening now is what happened to the Romans. They imploded because their own self indulgence consumed them.

Based on what I've witnessed in the west's response to the holocaust being perpetrated on the Ukrainian people by Russia, maybe it's time to let this bloated, corrupt, lacksadaisical, self indulgent civilization of ours fall. Maybe it's time to let the radical muslims dictate how we should live and worship. Maybe it's time to let the criminal dictators like Putin run rampant wholesale murdering innocents.

Then when it's too late to do anything about it and these animals are at gates and this self absorbed, lackadaisical, whinging, me first society looks to those like us who tried to raise the alarm, for protection and to make it right again. We'll have to say "Sorry, there's nothing more we can do. We tried to warn you but you wouldn't listen."

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 25, 2015, 02:02:09 PM
OUCH! That'd leave a mark! :cluebat:


In Europe, discuss the following sanctions against Russia.
Klimkin says that Europe is seriously considering to strengthen sanctions against Russia.
 In Europe seriously discussing the possibility of disconnection from the international banking system information transfer SWIFT.

"I spent one day in Davos, met with many heads after a meeting in Berlin. Even there are counting on the fact that Russia by the end of this year may be 6-8% drop in GDP. If applied shutdown SWIFT, then expects the Russian economy collapse "- Klimkin said.

Recently the European Parliament in its resolution officially approved urged the EU to consider the possibility of exclusion from civil nuclear cooperation and system SWIFT.

In addition, according to Klimkina, EU discuss expanding the list of persons who will be denied entry to the EU, as well as frozen assets in European banks. It is also possible extension of the list of Russian companies on which sanctions are implemented.

The Foreign Minister said that EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Federica Mogherini clearly said that Russia expects the deterioration of relations with the EU .

"No one says no to say nothing about the sanction and the possible strengthening of sanctions and help Ukraine," - said Klimkin.

Recall  Moherini convene an extraordinary Council of EU foreign ministers on the situation in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 25, 2015, 02:24:14 PM
President Obama is not the cause of the disease, he's just another symptom. I stopped criticizing his administration after the second election because he's what the American public wants. He's the pied piper leading them off the cliff.

We the people (of the west) are hastening our own downfall. We're the ones marching to our own destruction. When a celebrity's latest Botox treatment gets top billing over an aggressor nation mass murdering citizens of their neighboring countries in the national news because that's what the polling shows the viewer's want; we have problems.

What's happening now is what happened to the Romans. They imploded because their own self indulgence consumed them.

Based on what I've witnessed in the west's response to the holocaust being perpetrated on the Ukrainian people by Russia, maybe it's time to let this bloated, corrupt, lacksadaisical, self indulgent civilization of ours fall. Maybe it's time to let the radical muslims dictate how we should live and worship. Maybe it's time to let the criminal dictators like Putin run rampant wholesale murdering innocents.

Then when it's too late to do anything about it and these animals are at gates and this self absorbed, lackadaisical, whinging, me first society looks to those like us who tried to raise the alarm, for protection and to make it right again. We'll have to say "Sorry, there's nothing more we can do. We tried to warn you but you wouldn't listen."

Brass

This sounds like something I would write, surprised you feel about the same.  I just gave up on it and am resigned that the World will go on once we implode like the Romans (prolly after my lifetime, but could be a lot sooner if Putin forces WWIII).  A few people can see it and care but most don't.  I'm going back to my farm to plow some fields...(goodbye Yellow Brick road).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 25, 2015, 02:29:11 PM
Ask and ye shall receive!


Back on June 10, 2014, Olga Abdurashitova, a resident of Mariupol and a big fan of “Russki Mir,” the concept of a “Russian world” tearfully asked Russian President Vladimir Putin to bring troops into Ukraine on her page in VKontakte, a Russian version of Facebook.

Putin obviously heard her request and came. On January 24, Abdurashitova was killed when a rocket launched from a Russian GRAD hit her city, fired by Russian forces. Ukrainian blogger Fedor Kulikov found the dead pro-Russian separatist in a list of those killed in the shelling of Mariupol. As requested, the Russians came.


The dead body of this Russki Mir fan was found after shelling hit vulytsia Kyivska near the Kyiv market in Mariupol. Most probably, she went to the market to buy food, Ukrainian food, of course. Life can be cruel, but sometimes it is also just. This person got what she asked for, Fedor Kulikov commented in his FB page.

http://euromaidanpress.com
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 25, 2015, 02:44:21 PM

And that's exactly what the Pentagon did, terminate the contracts. All your links support that.



None of my links or your links support that. The Pentagon continued to honor all existing contracts to the very end, accepted delivery of unfinished helicopters and paid Russia even after Russia supplied weapons to Assad, Russia's aggression in Ukraine, and 2 requests by Congress to terminate the contracts immediately, send no money for arms, and accept no delivery of unfinished overpriced helicopters from Russia. The Pentagon/Obama continued to accept delivery and send payment up to a few months ago to fully honor the contracts they signed with Russia's main arms dealer. The language in the recent sanctions leaves the door open for Obama to buy more Russian arms. Obama could very well be motivating Putin right now by putting money in his pocket.


http://www.janes.com/article/45317/afghanistan-gets-final-mi-17s
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 25, 2015, 03:23:07 PM
from Kyiv Post:


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/pavel-felgenhauer-putins-aim-is-to-destroy-ukraines-independence-defeat-west-378372.html


Pavel Felgenhauer, 63, is a leading independent Russian military analyst and commentator who is known for his publications critical of Russia’s political and military leadership.

Quote

The Russian military who is helping them, they don’t like each other. The Donbas warloards are considered scum.

“The thing is the war won’t stop soon. It’s a very typical proxy war. Such proxy conflicts can last almost indefinitely like the war in Vietnam, like the war in Afghanistan, like the Middle East conflict. The battlefield is the Donbas. But it’s not the source of the battle. The clashes come from the Russian supply of men and materiel. When the source dies out, the war will end.




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 26, 2015, 03:40:16 AM
Oh dear!

Russia trying to scrape the bottom of the wheelbarrow to fund infrastructure projects...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-rethink-infrastructure-projects-fund-092105450.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 26, 2015, 03:51:47 AM
The old babuska's won't like to see their pension money propping up the government nor private businesses when they are forced to eat dirt.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 26, 2015, 04:31:31 AM
The cash from Russia dries up.  :clapping: :clapping:

Russia withdrew from Transnistria allowances



Russia for the first time refused to Transnistria in financial assistance, which in Moscow asked the leader of the region Yevgeny Shevchuk. This is "NG" said a source in the Supreme Council of Transnistria. Tiraspol expects to receive $ 100 million. To effect payment of pensions and other social obligations. According to the director of the Moldovan Center for Strategic Research and Policy Consulting Anatol Tsaranu is dictated by the change in the Kremlin's attitude to the breakaway republic, which may give way in exchange for recognition of Russian Crimea.

The fact that in Transnistria there is no money and no money to pay salaries and pensions, "NG" has already written (see.  the number of 01/20/15 ). And said that the delegation will visit Moscow to ask the unrecognized republic of $ 100 million., Which Transnistrian authorities expect to close holes in the social and economic spheres. Source "NG" in the Supreme Council of Transnistria said that the requests Transnistrians in the Russian government refused. According to a source, "in Moscow have expressed dissatisfaction with the charter flights that fly Transnistrian President Yevgeny Shevchuk, and referred to the economic difficulties in Russia."

Anatol Tsaranu remarked, "Nezavisimaya Gazeta" that "Moscow, for everyone, my views on Transnistria, which used to be called an outpost on the way to the Balkans, and now such was the Crimea." "Russia is in a difficult situation due to the Crimea, the situation in the east of Ukraine, as well as the economic crisis in Russia itself. Unrecognized Transnistria becomes a burden for Moscow.

The more the economy of Transnistria in critical condition - there are functioning or partial load range of businesses, which are also working on a cheap or free Russian energy resources. Tiraspol for gas should RF $ 5 billion. Electricity is supplied to local factories with the Moldovan Power Station, which - the Russian owner. Besides, have not forgotten scandals associated with Russian money and family of former Transnistrian leader Igor Smirnov, which allows the public to believe that and now things are not better, "- said Tsaranu.

The expert noted that the media reported that Russian investors have started to leave Transnistria, indicating that the decrease in the profitability of enterprises, as well as to change Moscow's position in relation to the pro-Russian region

http://www.ng.ru/cis/2015-01-26/1_pridnestrovie.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 26, 2015, 05:13:33 AM
Sanctions must be starting to really hurt. :clapping:

Peskov called "economic blackmail" threat of new sanctions against Russia



13:20  01/26/2015   Source: Russian news agency "Tass"   

 The threat of new sanctions against Russia because of the deterioration of the situation in Ukraine is not justified "economic blackmail". This opinion was expressed to journalists the press secretary of the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov .  "Russia will never agree with such threats, and even more so these threats and blackmail this never led and will lead to the fact that Russia under this oppression will change its consistent and well-known position, "- he said.  A Kremlin spokesman said that the resumption "on the background of any aggravation of the situation (in Ukraine)" threats to Russia in terms of enhancing the economic pressure - "this is absolutely destructive, unjustified and, ultimately, short-sighted line ".  "Instead of increasing the pressure on those who refuse to engage in dialogue and resolve the conflict peacefully, we hear the resumption of economic blackmail against Russia," - stated Sands, commenting, in particular, information on the possibility of disconnection of the Russian Federation on the banking system SWIFT .

http://www.ng.ru/news/491819.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: pokerintherear on January 26, 2015, 05:47:03 AM
Not if they're being untruthful as they are being in reporting the Pentagon was defying Congress. They weren't.

And that's exactly what the Pentagon did, terminate the contracts. All your links support that.

All Bills and Laws have these type of provisions/clauses included. I have nothing to add to paying more than some thought but it seems that's the Pentagon way, Republican or Democrat administrations. It'd be nice for the taxpayer if they didn't but it is what it is.

Yep, like I've been saying for years history is going to not look kindly on his administration. The world has become a far more dangerous place in the last six years and the scary part is there's two more to go.

It's very frustrating to me personally. In the mid 90s I started noticing erosion in the social fabric and political order in the West. My wife at the time and friends used to say I was being the cynic when I'd comment on it. They don't say that anymore.

President Obama is not the cause of the disease, he's just another symptom. I stopped criticizing his administration after the second election because he's what the American public wants. He's the pied piper leading them off the cliff.

We the people (of the west) are hastening our own downfall. We're the ones marching to our own destruction. When a celebrity's latest Botox treatment gets top billing over an aggressor nation mass murdering citizens of their neighboring countries in the national news because that's what the polling shows the viewer's want; we have problems.

What's happening now is what happened to the Romans. They imploded because their own self indulgence consumed them.

Based on what I've witnessed in the west's response to the holocaust being perpetrated on the Ukrainian people by Russia, maybe it's time to let this bloated, corrupt, lacksadaisical, self indulgent civilization of ours fall. Maybe it's time to let the radical muslims dictate how we should live and worship. Maybe it's time to let the criminal dictators like Putin run rampant wholesale murdering innocents.

Then when it's too late to do anything about it and these animals are at gates and this self absorbed, lackadaisical, whinging, me first society looks to those like us who tried to raise the alarm, for protection and to make it right again. We'll have to say "Sorry, there's nothing more we can do. We tried to warn you but you wouldn't listen."

Brass

Very true

Don't feel alone. Many Americans think we are being lead off the cliff and there is nothing we can do about it. We have tried the first 4 years to expose our president for what he is. This was a lost cause. We have changed the majorities in Congress and they still sit back and allow him to go rogue. Another lost attempt to reign him in.

Many are amazed at how we are blatantly lied to on a daily basis and there are no consequences. Just watch a daily press briefing. They have no shame.

What it does show is how naive people can be about a mans character.

Eventually the American people will tire of this process and take matters into their own hands. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 26, 2015, 06:04:01 AM
Too late many are already 'sheepleized' and trust the leaders. Very similar to Russians IMO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 26, 2015, 08:51:57 AM
Critical thinking isn't taught in school any more. My kids have been indoctrinated in school. They were taken on field trips that pretty much only supported the government being the answer to everything. The old Hillary Clinton BS of "It takes a village". Government is rarely the answer and when it is, it often is a very inefficient one.

I don't understand the sheeple who say the want more government when in the next breath they complain about how terrible government functions. I can't think of anything the US government does really well. Even national defense is a black hole of wasted money due to all the pork laden projects.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 26, 2015, 09:11:19 AM
even national defense is a black hole of wasted money due to all the pork laden projects.

The bureaucracy and political correctness is killing our war department.  At the depot I worked at managers were caught red handed by law enforcement stealing and selling the guns, optics and parts for drugs to get the town hooked on meth.  Does the IG or LTC of the base do anything?  No.  The hire back the managers involved while firing the whistleblowers and informants.

The Officer Corps is packed with risk averse conformists more concerned with ticket punching than killing the enemy and taking control.  That is why I am partly happy we aren't advising Ukraine.  We don't know how to win anymore or want to.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 26, 2015, 12:03:32 PM
S&P downgrades Russia's sovereign credit rating to below investment grade

Standard & Poor's on Monday downgraded Russia's sovereign credit rating to below investment grade, as the country's economy continues to weaken.

S&P slashed Russia's sovereign credit rating to BB+ from BBB- and said the outlook is negative, reflecting its view that Russia's monetary policy flexibility could diminish further.

This is the first time in more than 10 years that Russian sovereign debt has been rated
below investment grade, in what some call 'junk' territory.


It could not only harm Russia's image among investors, but also push up its borrowing costs, as many mainstream investment and pension funds have rules preventing them from buying anything not classed as investment grade.
 

The ratings agency said Russia's financial system is weakening and therefore limiting the Central Bank of Russia's (CBR's) ability to transmit monetary policy.


It sees the CBR facing "increasingly difficult monetary policy decisions while also trying to support sustainable GDP growth."

S&P said it could cut the rating again if "external and fiscal buffers deteriorate over the next 12 months" faster than it expects.

The U.S. dollar rose more than 5 percent against the ruble after the news broke.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102355639#.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 26, 2015, 12:17:45 PM
Russian Ruble Falls After Tensions Flare Over Ukraine

The ruble and Russian stocks fell sharply on Monday, following a return to full-scale warfare in eastern Ukraine and threats of further Western sanctions against Russia.

At 7:25 p.m. in Moscow, the ruble was down 3 percent against the dollar to 66.23 and 3.5 percent weaker against the euro at 74.71.

Russian stocks were also down, with the ruble-based MICEX 2 percent lower at 1,639 points and the dollar-based RTS down 5 percent at 780 points.

Ukraine said on Monday that Russian-backed rebels were pushing forward with a new offensive, underscoring the final collapse of a flimsy cease-fire agreed last September.

This follows the killing of 30 civilians in Mariupol on Saturday, in what Kiev says was a rebel rocket attack.

Washington and Brussels are both considering new sanctions against Russia after accusing it of openly supporting the latest rebel advance in Ukraine.

On Monday Russia's President Vladimir Putin was defiant, blaming Ukraine for provoking the fighting by rejecting peace talks and accusing a "foreign NATO legion" of trying to contain Russia. NATO dismissed the charge as "nonsense."

"The risk of new sanctions against Russia, because of the worsening situation in Ukraine, is exerting strong pressure on the Russian currency," BKS Express analyst Ivan Kopeikin said in a note. "The artillery shelling of Mariupol on Saturday hasn't escaped the attention of the West."

He added that in the short term the ruble was likely to fall to a level of 69 to the dollar.

The ruble was relatively stable week last week, trading between 63 and 64 to the dollar.

Adding to the pressure on Russian assets on Monday, the oil price was also weaker, with benchmark Brent shedding around 0.5 percent to $48.55 per barrel.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-ruble-falls-after-tensions-flare-over-ukraine-/514878.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 26, 2015, 12:19:16 PM
Prices of Russia's Top Export Commodities Fall Amid Oil Price Drop

While the plummeting price of oil has occupied headlines in recent months, it's not the only commodity of key importance to the Russian economy whose price is dropping.

In fact, all nine of the World Bank's key commodity price indices are currently in decline, pulled down by abundant supplies, disheartening global growth forecasts and the appreciation of the U.S. dollar, the World Bank said in a report.

At the present time, the World Bank sees little hope for a rebound. "[This year] is a rare case in which all nine key commodity price indices are expected (as of January) to decline for the year," the report said.

These commodity groups, which include energy, metals, grain and more, make up the vast majority of Russia's exports. They accounted for 79 percent of Russia's exports to the Commonwealth of Independent States and 93 percent of exports to countries outside the zone between January and November last year, the Kommersant newspaper calculated, using data from the Federal Customs Service.

Oil prices dropped the most among the commodities tracked by the World Bank, falling 45 percent in seven months and pulling the Russian ruble down more than 40 percent against the U.S. dollar by the end of 2014.

But at the same time, the prices of agricultural products, metals and precious metals fell by 6, 8 and 9 percent, respectively, between the third and fourth quarter of last year.

While not all the price falls are directly tied to oil, some commodities — such as natural gas, fertilizers and food — are bearing the brunt of crude's decline.

The European and Asian natural gas markets will be impacted as oil becomes comparatively more competitive. This will in turn push down the price of fertilizers, many of which have a large natural gas component, the report found.

The price of food commodities, particularly grains and oilseeds, will also drop due to the falling costs of fuel, chemical and fertilizers, as well as government policies that could push more grains and oilseeds into the production of biofuels, it said.

The World Bank forecasts oil prices averaging $53 per barrel this year, provided that the OPEC cartel of oil producers continues to eschew production cuts.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/prices-of-russia-s-top-export-commodities-fall-amid-oil-price-drop/514918.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 26, 2015, 02:26:07 PM
Seems that Belarus is preparing for Putin's 'little green men'!

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-soviet-union/belarus-to-de-russify-schools-and-ready-to-defend-from-unmarked-troops-378504.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 26, 2015, 03:26:57 PM
Doug,

The question is whether Lukashenko is preparing for little green men, or might there be another reason--such as clearing the way for martial law?

Yes, there are rising movements all over the FSU to reunite the "Russian world," but if you read the text of the Executive Order, it gives him broad powers to suspend the Constitution (as if he needed such), delay elections, etc. The wording gives him power to indefinitely do everything he needs to push elections aside, and continue at will. The excuse to enact those measures is if outside movements constitute a threat.

Ghee whiz, there are elections scheduled in Belarus for later this year. Shocking.  :D


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 26, 2015, 03:31:56 PM
Down Down Down.
For those advising others what a bargain it was at 55-- I hope you bought plenty back then--but--my guess is that you bought zero rubble !



1.00 USD   =   67.9178 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 67.9178 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0147237 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-01-26 22:29 UTC
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 26, 2015, 04:22:25 PM
Doug,

The question is whether Lukashenko is preparing for little green men, or might there be another reason--such as clearing the way for martial law?

Yes, there are rising movements all over the FSU to reunite the "Russian world," but if you read the text of the Executive Order, it gives him broad powers to suspend the Constitution (as if he needed such), delay elections, etc. The wording gives him power to indefinitely do everything he needs to push elections aside, and continue at will. The excuse to enact those measures is if outside movements constitute a threat.

Ghee whiz, there are elections scheduled in Belarus for later this year. Shocking.  :D

Point well taken.  I don't know enough about the Belarussian politics to evaluate the dangers.   When I read the full text of the Executive Order, it made sense to me.  Any country that risks an invasion by Russia would need to implement something similar.  After all, the lessons learned in Ukraine/Crimea, they cannot depend on NATO, the EU, the UN, or the USA to defend them prior to being overrun by Russia.  Hopefully, it is for honorable reasons that the order was generated.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 26, 2015, 04:44:10 PM
Russian spy ring shut down in New York...

3 Charged With Working as Agents for Russia in New York

..."In a case full of intrigue and clandestine communications, three Russians were charged on Monday with working secretly in New York as agents for Russian intelligence, the federal authorities said."...

Read more here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/nyregion/3-charged-with-working-as-agents-for-russia-in-new-york.html?_r=0

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 26, 2015, 05:36:00 PM
This is for people like FatherTime who think the US should do nothing to/for Ukraine to help.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/unrest-in-ukraine-threatens-world-peace-114614.html?


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 26, 2015, 05:45:53 PM
A very interesting look at the cost of the war inside Russia.

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/russia/articles/20150126.aspx?


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 06:10:52 PM
This is for people like FatherTime who think the US should do nothing to/for Ukraine to help.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/unrest-in-ukraine-threatens-world-peace-114614.html? (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/unrest-in-ukraine-threatens-world-peace-114614.html?)


Hey Taz, I read the link and thank you for it.  One point they made is the nuclear proliferation point. In my opinion that ship has already sailed, leaders of nations already realize that having nukes will make it far less less likely they will have forced regime change.  Hey for all we know Russia may decide to share nuclear weapons with various of their allied nations as one consequence if we get in his way too much (in Ukraine)...  Who knows what he has said/done?  He may decide that his allies globally are under siege and need protection like that.   I see what is happening in Ukraine as a pity...but there can be far greater tragedies...Don't take this wrong (like some of the site bloviators  have)...I want peace but it has to be a peace that considers Russia's global interests....we may not like it, but that is the way it HAS to be.  It goes without saying this is only opinion, and I welcome constructive counterpoints....although it is a certainty I'll get a little more than that!      :)


Fathertime!   
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 26, 2015, 06:23:53 PM
This is for people like FatherTime who think the US should do nothing to/for Ukraine to help.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/unrest-in-ukraine-threatens-world-peace-114614.html?
Taz--article is a good example of what I said recently--many in US politics on both sides to "get" the Ukrainian crisis and understand why it is so important-- and why something needs to be done--ie help Ukraine.
QUOTING-
"But this struggle is about more than Ukraine’s right to self-determination, and failing to support the Ukrainians will have real consequences for other U.S. national security priorities. When Ukraine emerged as an independent nation after the Cold War, it inherited the world’s third-largest stockpile of nuclear weapons. As a newly independent state looking to ensure its sovereignty and territorial integrity, Ukraine could have relied on its nuclear arsenal to ward off would-be aggressors. Instead, Ukraine sought — and received — assurances from the international community that its borders would be respected if it gave up its nuclear weapons. In 1994, the U.S., United Kingdom and Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, in which all sides pledged to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity, refrain from using military force or economic pressure to limit Ukrainian sovereignty and provide assistance to Ukraine if it became the victim of aggression from another nation. Obviously, Russia has broken its part of that agreement. Now the question is whether we will break ours. And if we do break our word, we should consider the devastating impact on American counterproliferation efforts around the world. How could any nation we seek to prevent from developing nuclear weapons ever trust U.S. security assurances if they see in the carnage and destruction in Ukraine the deadly folly of trading nuclear weapons for American guarantees?"
AND THIS__
QUOTING_
"Russian aggression against Ukraine today is as much about demonstrating the emptiness of U.S. and Western guarantees as it is about control of those individual countries. The conflict in Ukraine is the latest escalation of this trend, one that will continue until the U.S. and its allies stand firm."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 26, 2015, 06:33:35 PM
FT- my concern is you can't concede everything that Putin wants and give it to him. If he wants to "buy" Crimea then he needs to compensate Ukraine for it. I feel that for every Ukrainian life lost in this conflict and land stolen from Ukraine, Ukraine needs to be compensated at a minimum.

The problem with  your strategy is that even if Russia were to carve off a section of Ukraine, they would still have Ukraine next door that is trying to get out of their shadow. So what is to stop him from taking another chunk, and another, and another, ad infinitum? Absolutely nothing!

While I don't think Putin his Hitler, you can draw some interesting parallels. Hitler blamed the Jews and now Putin is blaming the Ukrainians as a reason for his illegal actions. Putin could take ALL of Ukraine and then say that he needed it's neighbors as a hedge against NATO and Europe. The Ukrainians clearly don't want to be under Putin's thumb and even in the areas that Russians are fighting from to attack the rest of Ukraine, those people weren't in favor of being under Putin's control even though they might have identified themselves as Russian. Polls were conducted long before this conflict started when it was relatively calm and not even a plurality of ethnic Russians wanted to break away from Ukraine.

My ex lived in that area and her family was all Russian, her grandfather fought in WW2, and they still didn't want to be part of Russia. I spent so much time in the area over the last 10 years that I know the people and mentality very well. While Russian there was no strong desire to be part of Russia. A small group of people along with Russian infiltrators upset the apple cart and the average person there is suffering. If Russia will control it, they will do what they did in Crimea and give everything of value to the Russian carpet baggers that will show up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 26, 2015, 06:45:31 PM
TAZ-- the likes of FT were busy trying to tell us that Putler was entitled to take Crimea and we should do nothing --because that was as far as his aspirations went! That wasted 4000 miles of forum space while he rationalised that!

Putler and his Russian army not as bad as Hitler?  Would you like to explain the difference to the family  of a friend of mine whose  just saw their son being shot while being a prisoner in this last week?

Or--as you well know-- the people murdered & maimed in Mariupol in the last week at Putlers instigation?

Appeasement of Putin WILL NOT WORK !-- Only removing him from all of Ukraine will stop him-- and provide the catalyst for Russian reform./
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 26, 2015, 06:53:38 PM
I don't know enough about the Belarussian politics to evaluate the dangers. 



Luka has regularly been ranked in the top 10 of Parade Magazine's worst dictators in the world. Putin has never made it in the top 10. Don't expect Luka to be one of Ukraine's heroes when this is all said and done.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 26, 2015, 07:15:17 PM
Russian spy ring shut down in New York...

3 Charged With Working as Agents for Russia in New York

..."In a case full of intrigue and clandestine communications, three Russians were charged on Monday with working secretly in New York as agents for Russian intelligence, the federal authorities said."...

Read more here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/nyregion/3-charged-with-working-as-agents-for-russia-in-new-york.html?_r=0

Brass

Are you kidding?

Mr. Sporyshev and Mr. Podobnyy, who were protected by diplomatic immunity, are no longer in the United States, the government said. As employees of the Russian government, they were exempt from notifying the United States attorney general of their intelligence work, the authorities said.

CLASSIC!   :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 26, 2015, 07:22:15 PM
Russian spy ring shut down in New York...

3 Charged With Working as Agents for Russia in New York

..."In a case full of intrigue and clandestine communications, three Russians were charged on Monday with working secretly in New York as agents for Russian intelligence, the federal authorities said."...

Read more here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/nyregion/3-charged-with-working-as-agents-for-russia-in-new-york.html?_r=0

Brass

This spy situation shows how desperate the Russian economy is.  That's what they were send to spy about.

"Two of the Russians posed as official representatives of Russia. The third man worked in the Manhattan office of a Russian bank and was arrested in the Bronx. All three men worked for Directorate ER, an S.V.R. division that focuses on economic issues.

The three Russians — as well as unnamed others — had been directed to collect intelligence on potential United States sanctions against the Russian Federation and on efforts by the United States to develop alternative energy resources, the complaint said."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 26, 2015, 07:32:51 PM
No PayPal in Crimea?  How are all of those agency gals gonna get paid?  I also wonder how ADate, with company headquarters in Moscow, is keeping tabs on all the Pay-per-chat girls in Ukraine.  As a matter of interest, if you were a Ukrainian woman and knew that you could list with any online agency, would you currently choose a company based in Russia?  I wonder how many of the agencies are getting paid in Rubles and not dollars?

No Paypal in Ukraine either
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 07:37:44 PM
FT- my concern is you can't concede everything that Putin wants and give it to him. If he wants to "buy" Crimea then he needs to compensate Ukraine for it. I feel that for every Ukrainian life lost in this conflict and land stolen from Ukraine, Ukraine needs to be compensated at a minimum.

The problem with  your strategy is that even if Russia were to carve off a section of Ukraine, they would still have Ukraine next door that is trying to get out of their shadow. So what is to stop him from taking another chunk, and another, and another, ad infinitum? Absolutely nothing!
 


Prior to this crisis Russia had a great deal of control (Perhaps indirectly) over Ukraine....although there are a percentage of Russian sympathizers, when this crisis is over it seems a certainty they will have less control overall...since things weren't going TOO badly before the crisis...I'd call that a win (for western powers)...just not a blowout win....2 steps forward 1 1/2 steps back.  Ukraine will pay the price though. 


At this point I agree in regards to not giving anything away...It seems to me that Russia is paying for this...just not as much as some insist they should be...and having an unhappy population to maintain will have many costs....and I continue to believe Western intervention will turn a regional battle into something much larger...and it just isn't necessary despite what people's emotions are saying. 


Fathertime!   






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 07:42:37 PM
TAZ-- the likes of FT were busy trying to tell us that Putler was entitled to take Crimea and we should do nothing --because that was as far as his aspirations went! That wasted 4000 miles of forum space while he rationalised that!

Putler and his Russian army not as bad as Hitler?  Would you like to explain the difference to the family  of a friend of mine whose  just saw their son being shot while being a prisoner in this last week?

Or--as you well know-- the people murdered & maimed in Mariupol in the last week at Putlers instigation?

Appeasement of Putin WILL NOT WORK !-- Only removing him from all of Ukraine will stop him-- and provide the catalyst for Russian reform./


I see you whining on a parallel thread about a statement being taken out of context...meanwhile you have taken certain characterizations of my statements out of the context of the discussion that was occurring at the time...so I don't think you should complain so much when the same is done to towards your statements. 


Typical!  :rolleyes:


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 26, 2015, 07:50:06 PM

The aid was done so knowing there was a high probability to bring in the Soviets.  The amount of aid wasn't important.  Getting the Soviets into a war was.  Interfering in another country in order to bring down the Soviets.


It would be silly for any of us not to remember what has been done to bring down the Soviets and say it wouldn't happen to any threat America perceived and Russia is a perceived threat.

Wow.  We are a community that posts pro-soviet Shiite?  Wow.  MOB indeed
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 26, 2015, 08:02:26 PM
Are you kidding?

Mr. Sporyshev and Mr. Podobnyy, who were protected by diplomatic immunity, are no longer in the United States, the government said. As employees of the Russian government, they were exempt from notifying the United States attorney general of their intelligence work, the authorities said.

CLASSIC!   :ROFL:

Perhaps you don't know how intelligence work actually works but what is said there is assumed, it's really no big deal.  An American economic analyst assigned to the American embassy in Moscow is assumed by Moscow to actually be a spy and he will likely be followed at all times while he is walking around or driving around Moscow.  The two agents described above were recorded in action with a "NOC" which is somebody who if captured the Russians would likely kill; we don't do that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 26, 2015, 08:03:10 PM
тазик, лови
Quote
On February 19, 1954 the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union issued a decree transferring the Crimean Oblast from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian SSR. According to the Soviet Constitution (article 18), the borders of a republic within the Soviet Union could not be re-drawn without the agreement of the republic in question. The transfer was approved by the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union; however, according to article 33 of the constitution, the Presidium did not have the authority to do so. The constitutional change (articles 22 and 23) to accommodate the transfer was made several days after the decree issued by the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet.[1][2]

The decree was first announced, on the front page of Pravda, on February 27, 1954.[3] The full text of the decree was:[4]


"Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet transferring the Crimea Province from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR.

Taking into account the integral character of the economy, the territorial proximity and the close economic and cultural ties between the Crimea Province and the Ukrainian SSR, the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet decrees:
To approve the joint presentation of the Presidium of the Russian SFSR Supreme Soviet and the Presidium of the Ukrainian SSR Supreme Soviet on the transfer of the Crimea Province from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR."
The transfer took place in three steps: the Supreme Soviet of the Russian SFSR proposed the transfer, the Supreme Soviet then approved, and the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR accepted the transfer on June 17, 1954.

There are claims[who?] that the move was illegal as there was a requirement for a referendum which was never carried out and that the Supreme Soviet was inquorate.[5]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 26, 2015, 08:10:13 PM

Prior to this crisis Russia had a great deal of control (Perhaps indirectly) over Ukraine....although there are a percentage of Russian sympathizers, when this crisis is over it seems a certainty they will have less control overall...since things weren't going TOO badly before the crisis...I'd call that a win (for western powers)...just not a blowout win....2 steps forward 1 1/2 steps back.  Ukraine will pay the price though. 


At this point I agree in regards to not giving anything away...It seems to me that Russia is paying for this...just not as much as some insist they should be...and having an unhappy population to maintain will have many costs....and I continue to believe Western intervention will turn a regional battle into something much larger...and it just isn't necessary despite what people's emotions are saying. 


Fathertime!

Please not the win-win again
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 08:19:35 PM
Russian spy ring shut down in New York...

3 Charged With Working as Agents for Russia in New York

..."In a case full of intrigue and clandestine communications, three Russians were charged on Monday with working secretly in New York as agents for Russian intelligence, the federal authorities said."...

Read more here...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/nyregion/3-charged-with-working-as-agents-for-russia-in-new-york.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/nyregion/3-charged-with-working-as-agents-for-russia-in-new-york.html?_r=0)

Brass


I was browsing the internet and found this link which states that the USA ran Special Ops. in 130 nations last year....Even I find that number shocking.....Assuming the story is true, I don't know who exactly we are killing in many of these things in so many different countries....kinda makes the Russian spy thing seem like small potatoes.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/special-ops-almost-70-percent-world-countries (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/special-ops-almost-70-percent-world-countries)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 26, 2015, 08:25:42 PM
What did I tell you?  Moral equivalency!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 08:28:45 PM
What did I tell you?  Moral equivalency!


The 'superior' moralist strikes again!   :ROFL:


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 26, 2015, 08:29:47 PM
тазик, лови

Who gives Putin the authority to take it back? Anyway i was in Crimea during the initial arrival of the little green men. I can tell you from spending quite a bit of time in Crimea, over the past 14 years, that while there were a lot of Russian speakers, there was almost nobody ready to run to be under the control of Russia.

Demographically the percentage of Russians as a total amount of the population was in continuous decline. So let's do the math regarding the voting regarding the referendum which was a joke anyway. As you should know Kukla, the was NO CHOICE to stay as part of Ukraine on the referendum. Supposedly Krim (Crimea) voted 99.7% in favor of joining Russia. This is obviously total BS as at best, the amount of Russian in Krim was about 55-60%. There is no way in hell the Tatars would have ever voted for being part of Russian they represent about 10-13% of the population.

So any way you look at it, it was total a sham vote and DONE after the invasion of the LGM (little green men) to try and cover up their illegal acts after the fact. I know how Russia works, I lived and worked there long enough to separate the fact from the fiction in most situations.

FT- as far as Russia paying a price that isn't just all of it. Sure they may pay a short term price but they stole all the natural resources that surrounded Crimea. Part of the HUGE price they should pay is to COMPENSATE Ukraine for their theft. It isn't just enough they suffer a bit, they need to compensate their victims (Ukraine and the Ukrainian people). How can Russia repay Ukraine for all the lives lost and families destroyed? Billions of real $$$, not worthless Rubles, would be a start. A ongoing royalty of 50% (monitored and audited by one of the big 4) for all natural resources accessed from around Crimea. I could go on. The point is to make it so punitive that Putin would never attempt anything like this again and exact a tremendous price going forward for his folly.

JayH- While I think Putin is despicable, at the moment he hasn't equaled either Hitler or Stalin but he could be on his way. I hope not but the longer it goes, the more he looks like a genocidal maniac.

The ultimate irony would be if China uses Putin's own tactics against him. I would probably die of laughter.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 26, 2015, 08:31:23 PM

The 'superior' moralist strikes again!   :ROFL:


Fathertime!

Insults.

He has doesn't have a lot of tools in his playbook folks.  Keep debating him like you do Doll though . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 26, 2015, 08:39:15 PM

I was browsing the internet and found this link which states that the USA ran Special Ops. in 130 nations last year....Even I find that number shocking.....Assuming the story is true, I don't know who exactly we are killing in many of these things in so many different countries....kinda makes the Russian spy thing seem like small potatoes.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/special-ops-almost-70-percent-world-countries (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/special-ops-almost-70-percent-world-countries)


Fathertime!

That's where you've been getting some of these ideas you put forth! Been driving me nuts trying to figure out where I'd read some of your offerings before.

You my friend are a Tom Engelhardt fan.  The age of the American empire is upon us! :P

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 08:42:29 PM


 

FT- as far as Russia paying a price that isn't just all of it. Sure they may pay a short term price but they stole all the natural resources that surrounded Crimea. Part of the HUGE price they should pay is to COMPENSATE Ukraine for their theft. It isn't just enough they suffer a bit, they need to compensate their victims (Ukraine and the Ukrainian people). How can Russia repay Ukraine for all the lives lost and families destroyed? Billions of real $$$, not worthless Rubles, would be a start. A ongoing royalty of 50% (monitored and audited by one of the big 4) for all natural resources accessed from around Crimea. I could go on. The point is to make it so punitive that Putin would never attempt anything like this again and exact a tremendous price going forward for his folly.
Well Taz, I don't think any of those things are going to happen.  Yes the price they pay may be temporary in terms of the sanctions...but an angry populace will be something that might last, if indeed Russia goes all through Ukraine like Mendeleyev has stated.  Thus far in the context of the other ongoing battles worldwide this one still hasn't been near as deadly as others....Iraq Afghanistan, Libya, Syria etc.  It doesn't appear it will reach that level, but that remains to be seen. 


I see it as OUR folly, we left an opening and he is taking it...If the western nations learn from this, it won't happen like this again, unless we want/allow it to. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 08:46:42 PM
That's where you've been getting some of these ideas you put forth! Been driving me nuts trying to figure out where I'd read some of your offerings before.

You my friend are a Tom Engelhardt fan.  The age of the American empire is upon us! :P

Brass


I look at that website maybe once every 6 months,...but today was one of those days!  Is there something wrong with the website, I heard it was reputable, but maybe it isn't.
Don't know Tom Engelhardt. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on January 26, 2015, 08:47:34 PM

I was browsing the internet and found this link which states that the USA ran Special Ops. in 130 nations last year....Even I find that number shocking.....Assuming the story is true, I don't know who exactly we are killing in many of these things in so many different countries....kinda makes the Russian spy thing seem like small potatoes.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/special-ops-almost-70-percent-world-countries (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/special-ops-almost-70-percent-world-countries)

At last we understand: Fathertime is a commie who reads Mother Jones.


Larry1!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 08:48:34 PM
Insults.

He has doesn't have a lot of tools in his playbook folks.  Keep debating him like you do Doll though . . .


You get insulted easily!  Despite your silliness, I was trying to keep it safe and sane.   :D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 26, 2015, 08:52:10 PM

The ultimate irony would be if China uses Putin's own tactics against him. I would probably die of laughter.

Russia is already on track to become nothing more than just a vassal state to China.
Just look at those unfavourable gas deals mongoloid Putin signed with China recently.
Right, Doll?

Or do you actually believe the Chinese respects Russia and will treat her as an equal partner in an alliance?

BTW how are your Mandarin lessons going?
You'll need that language soon enough...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 08:52:58 PM
At last we understand: Fathertime is a commie who reads Mother Jones.


Larry1!
Interesting...Mother Jones is a communist website?  I read that it was "Left leaning", which certainly doesn't make it communist.  On many issues I'm not too left leaning, but I still see little  harm in reading from various sources.


Wiki doesn't describe it the way you do.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Jones_(magazine) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Jones_(magazine))


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 26, 2015, 09:20:48 PM

I look at that website maybe once every 6 months,...but today was one of those days!  Is there something wrong with the website, I heard it was reputable, but maybe it isn't.
Don't know Tom Engelhardt. 

Don't know about the website but the article's origin is from Tom Engelhardt's blog and he's quite a prolific writer and editor.

http://www.nationinstitute.org/fellows/1187/tom_engelhardt/

I have The World According to TomDispatch: America in the New Age of Empire on my book shelf just went and retrieved it.

He'd probably best be described as a 'dissenter' but then you already know that. :P

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 26, 2015, 09:31:48 PM

You get insulted easily!  Despite your silliness, I was trying to keep it safe and sane.   :D


Fathertime!

Another distraction. Tell us your win win.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 26, 2015, 09:33:30 PM
At last we understand: Fathertime is a commie who reads Mother Jones.


Larry1!

Ask him about his great love for America.  Notice how every other post he runs down his country but won't leave.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 09:45:20 PM
Don't know about the website but the article's origin is from Tom Engelhardt's blog and he's quite a prolific writer and editor.

http://www.nationinstitute.org/fellows/1187/tom_engelhardt/ (http://www.nationinstitute.org/fellows/1187/tom_engelhardt/)

I have The World According to TomDispatch: America in the New Age of Empire on my book shelf just went and retrieved it.

He'd probably best be described as a 'dissenter' but then you already know that. :P

Brass


Well the crux of the article was that we were doing Special Ops in 130 countries last year.  If that is the case, that is a hell of a lot of potential interference...I imagine some were with approval and others probably not.




Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 26, 2015, 09:46:22 PM
Ask him about his great love for America.  Notice how every other post he runs down his country but won't leave.


Another distraction. Tell us your win win.


Just keeping it 'safe and sane' with you!    :)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on January 26, 2015, 10:56:48 PM

Well the crux of the article was that we were doing Special Ops in 130 countries last year.  If that is the case, that is a hell of a lot of potential interference...I imagine some were with approval and others probably not.




Fathertime!

Another distraction while Russia invades Ukraine
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 01:44:29 AM
No Paypal in Ukraine either
It appears that Paypal will allow you to pay but not receive money in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 27, 2015, 02:30:51 AM
1.00 USD   =   67.6155 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 67.6155 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0147895 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-01-27 09:28 UTC

size=8pt]Russian ruble and failed to return to the level that was before yesterday's collapse [/size]

Today, January 27, at the Moscow Interbank Currency Exchange, after yesterday evening collapse because of deteriorating credit rating of Russia Russian ruble has appreciated slightly. But never was able to return to a level that had to collapse - currency yesterday was four rubles cheaper . In particular, the US dollar today on the stock exchange is almost 68 rubles. And yesterday morning was on 64. Euro today - in 76 rubles, and yesterday at the opening of trading was on 72. Experts predict that the dollar could jump in Russia 80 rubles . Read also: Russia faced a "tsunami" deteriorating credit rating predict default, record "escapes" capital

Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/groshi/rosiyskiy-rubl-tak-i-ne-spromigsya-povernutisya-do-rivnya-scho-buv-pered-vchorashnim-obvalom-405352.html

BB--they can use all the extra rubble coming from the sale of their foreign exchange reserves-- it would have added up to a lot more rubble !!
Only one problem--they have no reserves to call on !! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 27, 2015, 03:03:12 AM
 :welcome: :tmi:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 27, 2015, 03:08:53 AM
OPEC oil basket price for the first time in nearly two weeks has fallen below $ 43 to $ 42.90 a barrel.

This was announced by the secretariat of the international cartel of Petroleum Exporting Countries, RBC-Ukraine.

In addition, on January 27, dropped the price of oil brand Brent. So, as of 10:19 Moscow time the price was established at $ 47.75 a barrel, and at 10:24 - $ 47.76 a barrel. This is 0.83% lower than the close of business on 26 January.

http://nvua.net/business/economics/cena-nefti-opek-vpervye-pochti-za-dve-nedeli-ustanovilas-nizhe-otmetki-43-31398.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 05:13:47 AM
Hey Doll does that dirt taste better boiled or fried?

More than Half of Russia’s Urban Residents are Now Poor

Staunton, January 21 – For many, the face of poverty in Russia is to be found in the country’s dying countryside, but a new survey finds that more than half of the population of its largest cities is now poor, and predicts that ever more urban Russians are becoming poor, a development with potentially ominous political consequences.



Even in Moscow, 43 percent of the residents are poor, with nine percent of them critically poor, according to a study of 35 cities in the Russian Federation with more than 500,000 residents carried out by sociologists at the Russian government’s Finance University.

Those figures compare with an average of 54 poor for all the cities surveyed, with the situation in Toliatti, Astrakhan, Penza, Volgograd and Saratov being somewhat worse and that in St. Petersburg and Vladivostok somewhat better. The average for all such Russian cities was 54 percent.

Last month, Vice Prime Minister Olga Golodets said that there were 15.7 million poor people in Russia now, but she conceded that given inflation and the economic crisis, that number is going up, especially as the purchasing power of Russian incomes falls. The actual number is almost certainly higher, and it is increasingly urban rather than rural.

The study devoted particular attention to the possibility that rising unemployment might trigger protests. “The main moving force for social protests,” they said, consists of “poor and unemployed youth.” Given that unemployment among the young is still relatively low, it said, the situation is currently stable.

Yevgeny Gontmakher, deputy director of IMEMO, says that he is certain that mayors can address these problems successfully. But they are largely on their own because there is no central government program for the poor in cities, and the program for company towns is not being implemented in an effective way.

Elena Afanasyeva, a member of the Federation Council, says that she believes that region centers have the resources to relieve poverty, but that other cities do not. In the case of the latter, regional officials must intervene and make every effort to “reduce the level of poverty” in the cities of their regions.

Regional leaders have one resource that they are not using, she continues. They can speak directly to the Russian president, but they don’t about such problems because they “fear losing their high posts.” As a result, Afanasyeva says, Vladimir Putin does not know the full extent of the problem or has only a distorted idea about it.

But she notes that there is even more poverty in Russia’s smaller cities that are not company towns. They have been almost completely forgotten by the government and as a result, “they are dying out and degrading” with those who can leaving, their budgets falling, and poverty increasing. She called on Moscow to begin focusing on these cities as well.

http://www.interpretermag.com/more-than-half-of-russias-urban-residents-are-now-poor/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 05:20:17 AM
Russia is used to it
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 05:21:51 AM
In the eyes of the world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 05:40:05 AM
Russia is used to it

While the rest of the world prospers, Russia is sinking into the lower reaches of a 3rd world country.
Is there a 4th world country level?  Will Russia be the first one to achieve this 'distinction'?

 Face it Putin and his oligarch's have destroyed all credibility in the rest of the world but the population of Russia just accepts is.  :cluebat:


 Don't Russians also want things to be better for their children and future generations yet to come?

 Or will they also say," Russia is used to it."
 Tis a pity!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 27, 2015, 05:50:41 AM
Russia is used to it

Hey Doll are you following the regime's advice of eating less and using beetroot as makeup?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 06:02:00 AM
Hey Doll are you following the regime's advice of eating less and using beetroot as makeup?
I am not- beets are in my borsh ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 27, 2015, 06:25:43 AM
I am not- beets are in my borsh ;D


Hey Doll,  It appears France and Russia are striking a new deal regarding pigs/pork, despite objections from other EU states like Poland:


http://news.yahoo.com/poland-criticizes-bilateral-trade-deals-moscow-french-accord-155155322.html (http://news.yahoo.com/poland-criticizes-bilateral-trade-deals-moscow-french-accord-155155322.html)




Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 27, 2015, 06:37:49 AM
Another distraction while Russia invades Ukraine


Many other countries may not consider it a 'distraction' if it is true that we are so active in 130 countries with these 'special ops'...this is the sorta of thing that is precisely why certain countries object and make claims of 'interference'....and it is possible they are justified in making these objections....despite your attempts to silence the messenger...and sweep it under the carpet.   


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 06:42:46 AM

Hey Doll,  It appears France and Russia are striking a new deal regarding pigs/pork, despite objections from other EU states like Poland:


http://news.yahoo.com/poland-criticizes-bilateral-trade-deals-moscow-french-accord-155155322.html (http://news.yahoo.com/poland-criticizes-bilateral-trade-deals-moscow-french-accord-155155322.html)




Fathertime!

Quote
Poland led EU criticism of bilateral farm deals with Moscow on Monday following a French accord with Russia to lift its ban on live pig and pork imports, saying they broke the "principle of European solidarity".

What solidarity? It was Russia that refused to buy food from Europe :D

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 06:45:39 AM
Special operation of Ukrainian Army destroys terrorists’ aviation

ми-24
The terrorists continue to suffer substantial losses in manpower and equipment.


This is reported by Censor.NET citing the press service of the Ministry of Defense.

"In the course of armed hostilities, all attempts of the terrorists to attack the Ukrainian military near Nikishyne, Ridkodub, Novoivanivka, Novohryhorivka, Popasna direction and in Vodiane, Opytne, Mariinka and Maiorsk have been repulsed. The terrorists suffered heavy losses in manpower and equipment," the statement reads.

Read also: Nine Ukrainian soldiers killed, 29 wounded over past day


According to the ministry, over the past 24 hours (26-27 Jan.), the Ukrainian military destroyed four combat vehicles, five SP-guns and 7 vehicles of the terrorists.

"The Armed Forces of Ukraine destroyed four tanks, nine armored combat vehicles, four MLRS Smerch, 12 MLRS Grad, 18 vehicles, one aircraft L-39, two AN-2, one Yak-52, two Yak-50 and four Mi-24 helicopters," the Defense Ministry added.

The information was confirmed by the General Staff. Acting head of the press center of the General Staff Vladyslav Selezniov confirmed the information to Ukrainska Pravda, Censor.NET reports.

"As a result of a special operation in the ATO area the militants' aircraft were destroyed. This is the same equipment which they boasted saying they have aviation which they planned to use against our forces in the ATO area," Selezniov said.
http://en.censor.net.ua
/news/321813/special_operation
_of_ukrainian_army_destroys_terrorists_aviation
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 06:57:37 AM
censor.net is one of the least reliable source.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 08:05:10 AM
Hardly..

 Pravda, RT, Sputnik, Tass and many others that end with .ru have that 'honor'.


So once again, why don't Russians want a better life for their children, grandchildren and future generations than what they had?  Does dirt taste better when it's passed onto the future generation of the 4th world country?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2015, 08:12:45 AM
Quote
censor.net is one of the least reliable sources.


Untrue.  It is an aggregator, and one of the things it reports accurately daily is the number of deaths of Ukrainian soldiers.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 08:33:37 AM

Well the crux of the article was that we were doing Special Ops in 130 countries last year.  If that is the case, that is a hell of a lot of potential interference...I imagine some were with approval and others probably not.




Fathertime!


You want interference?
You can't handle interference!



U.S. Spies on Millions of Drivers
DEA Uses License-Plate Readers to Build Database for Federal, Local Authorities


Quote
The database raises new questions about privacy and the scope of government surveillance. The existence of the program and its expansion were described in interviews with current and former government officials, and in documents obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union through a Freedom of Information Act request and reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. It is unclear if any court oversees or approves the intelligence-gathering.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spies-on-millions-of-cars-1422314779?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 09:29:28 AM
LNR Coaasks Angry

Today we would like to address the world community, and personally Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, and tell what is going on in the so called Luhansk People?s Republic. Your prot?g?s, Mr. Plotnitsky, steals wagon loads of coal every day. I have personally counted 164 of such wagon loads today. There are documents that prove all of this. Each of us was fighting to make the life of people easier. Here you see people who entered the Security Service of Ukraine building and who said the word ?Russia?. I would like to ask Russia ? how long will Mr. Plotnitsky and those strange Jews be robbing us? I will tell you, who Mr. Plotnitsky is ? he is a prot?g? of Natalia Korolevskaya. Right now there are people of Mr. Yefremov who are in the Regional State Administration building. We would like to ask whether we were entering the building to get this? Whether ?Bars? and all others were dying for this?

 

We wanted an easier life for people.  From all the 10 so called humanitarian convoys only one has reached people. All other goods have been sold. I would like to ask: who will hold accountable? Mr. Plotnitsky and all the others? I understand, many people would say that we have elected him. I will tell you how these elections were conducted!

 

No more lies! We have risen for freedom and we are free people! Mr. Plotnitsky said in Brianka that we are extremists. So, dear Ihor Venediktovich, you are thief! You are thief of people?s trust. You have implemented social cards: if a person does not come to the elections, he or she does not get a pension.  There was no such intimidation anywhere else in the world. There was no such intimidation even in fascist Ukraine. You are worse than they are. We demand your retirement. We, the first cossack regiment of Platov, demand your retirement! And the Whole Luhansk region will rise together with us! They see how their resources are being stolen, how you steal everything possible and not possible every day; how those minion fighters, who were included in brigades, take apartments and live there. Because they ?have a right for this?!

 

Why haven?t we stolen anything? We were fighting in Severodonetsk, Lisichansk, Pervomaysk, we have taken villages of Frunze and Donetski etc. And where were you? Were you sitting in the Regional State Administration building? Ask each of them what have they got from this war; only ruins and pain. And let?s see what you have got. So I would like to know, when you visited Brianka, why didn?t you work up the courage to visit us? Is it because we have such piles of documents that show what you have stolen?

 

You together with Mr. Bolotov were cutting wagons into pieces in Sentianovka. And what were we doing, we who were stealing those wagons from Popasna and bringing them in order to leave them for the Republic. And now you say that you have nothing to transport the coal with. So why do you taking this coal away? Where are real social payments? Where is at least one law from your Fraking parliament? Where are they? What do we need you for?

 

You talk about a Cossack republic. No, we are for the LNR, but without you. Without Ihor Plotnitsky, without Koriakin, and all that trash which sits there. We want one thing: not show but actions.

 

Excuse me, when you bring 35 presents to the children?s foster home once in half a year, ?thank you very much?, Mr. Koriakin. You are sucking a dick Liosha. We are all waiting for you in Stakhanov. Come to us. Here is an online salute to Mr. Tambov. You know about a flash drive which is in my pocket. If in the next few days something happens to any of these people, the information on this flash drive will be spread to all servers in the world. And then we will play for completely other resources.

 

All those people here have risen for Russia. Do not destroy that belief in them. Who gave you a right to decide for the whole large country? Each of them, or at least most of them, were born in the Soviet Union. And we remember it unlike you. You want only collecting and stealing. Learn how to live! Learn to live as people live! Each of you steals or ?solves problems?. I will give you an example: Luhansk Teplovos has sent three locomotives, where are they? An address of destination is the town of Rivne. Where does the coal go? I will tell you: to the same place, to Western Ukraine.

 

Tell us, what do we get? A lot of people here come from Lysychansk. They have families, children there etc. Did anybody think that we should give people their homes back? Did anybody think that we should return these families?

 

You went to Minsk and made that Fraking peace agreement. Who was it peaceful for? I ask you a question: who was this agreement peaceful for? Come to Pervomaysk and look how glad we were for your peace. You thought that we would be happy when a new manning table of a regiment comes and we get new ranks of colonels. Each of us is glad to be sergeant or staff-sergeant. We are glad to have a lot of brothers and not because we get new ranks, money etc! If you think that you bought some drunkards, brought them here and they will do everything for you, no ? this is our land. And we will do everything here. And do not shout here about Cossacks. There is another talk here: this is our land, we were born and raised here, we lived here and, if God helps, we will die here when we are old. We have risen for freedom and not for you giving us social cards, or any gifts. We do not need your cheap gifts. There is a good saying: ?If you want to feed a hungry man with fish, give him a rod, not a fish?.

 

So, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we ask you to give us a rod, and not to feed us with fish! Look what is really going on. When we were telling you that Mr. Surkov is a thief, you did not hear us. Yes, we know that you?ve dismissed Mr. Surkov, but this did not change anything. There are the same people everywhere. A regional prosecutor is a former regional prosecutor. The Deputy-Head of the Ministry of Internal affairs used to be an assistant of the ATO Head of Ukraine 2 weeks ago! One question: did anything change?

 

What were we losing friends for? We will do more for you. We will film a parade of a whole regiment for you tomorrow. It will consist of 1500 people and everybody who will join it. You know, we are not afraid of any threats that we will be killed. We were killed many times and we are still alive. And yes, happy new year to everyone!
http://en.informnapalm.org/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 10:14:13 AM
So, you wanted to be free by calling Russia? Take Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 10:38:25 AM

Untrue.  It is an aggregator, and one of the things it reports accurately daily is the number of deaths of Ukrainian soldiers.
True. The reports are not accurate. almost no prove
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 10:43:44 AM
True. The reports are not accurate. almost no prove


But you do take RT reports at face value, right?


Like NATO is spearheading Ukraine's attack on Russia.


Where's the proof? You say you know what is happening. Heard anyone in Russia say that Russia has been attacked? Except Huilo, that is.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 10:47:18 AM

But you do take RT reports at face value, right?


Like NATO is spearheading Ukraine's attack on Russia.


Where's the proof? You say you know what is happening. Heard anyone in Russia say that Russia has been attacked? Except Huilo, that is.
Actually, first thing I do  is Department of State Daily briefings, then European official video or articles, then everything else.
Department of States doesn't have numbers of loses
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 11:02:01 AM
So once again, why don't Russians want a better life for their children, grandchildren and future generations than what they had?  Does dirt taste better when it's passed onto the future generation of the 4th world country?

Does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling that your grandchildren will try to fill their stomachs with dirt?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 11:16:25 AM
MY grandchild is and will be fine. Thanks for your concern though :D
I only care for my two sons, daughter-in-law and the baby. My parents are dead already.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 11:25:34 AM
So you seem to be fine with future generations of Russian babies forced to eat dirt just because your glorious leader has ruined the country?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 11:28:00 AM
So you seem to be fine with future generations of Russian babies forced to eat dirt just because your glorious leader has ruined the country?
Again- I only care for my family and leave politics for politicians (and RWD)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2015, 12:37:33 PM
True. The reports are not accurate. almost no prove
How does one "prove" that 3 soldiers died on a particular day?

Most of the articles are statements of others, which are, in fact, provable.  Please provide proof of an inaccuracy on such an article reported on censor.net.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 27, 2015, 12:49:39 PM
Quote
What solidarity? It was Russia that refused to buy food from Europe

Correct.

FT, get with the times.

The vast majority of so-called food bans are part of "reverse sanctions" instituted by President Putin.

Now he is getting hungry apparently. Beets only go so far...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 01:01:57 PM
How does one "prove" that 3 soldiers died on a particular day?

Most of the articles are statements of others, which are, in fact, provable.  Please provide proof of an inaccuracy on such an article reported on censor.net.
I won't because I don't read this site.
You can tell about this "accuracy" to our American members (they will believe anything), but you (and I )know that one can write anything what he thinks. Only official papers give you true number, nobody have these papers.
Both sides lie and we don't know what is truth what is not.
Censor. net is the least reliable source.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 27, 2015, 01:27:16 PM
Quote
Only official papers give you true number, nobody have these papers.

Well, the official documents tell Russian mothers that their sons died from mysterious, yet unexplained, accidents in the Rostov region. Very believable, indeed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 01:48:16 PM
I won't because I don't read this site.
You can tell about this "accuracy" to our American members (they will believe anything), but you (and I )know that one can write anything what he thinks. Only official papers give you true number, nobody have these papers.
Both sides lie and we don't know what is truth what is not.
Censor. net is the least reliable source.


Oh, you mean like Graham Phillips?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 27, 2015, 01:55:55 PM

Both sides lie and we don't know what is truth what is not.



Both sides lie but they don't lie about everything. Russian troops are in Ukraine just as Putin admitted they were in Crimea. Western nations wouldn't hurt their economies with sanctions on Russia over a lie.


When this crisis began, I heard from unbelievers that Russia was not involved and the rebels were getting their gear from raiding police and military armories and military fatigues from army surplus stores. How can a conflict go this long without someone supplying them weapons? Ammo from the armory would've ran out a long time ago. Doll, who do you think is providing the endless supply of weapons they need? If Russian troops aren't helping the rebels, tell us how a handful of rebels is pushing back an army of an entire nation? I'm not asking for proof, just your opinion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 27, 2015, 01:56:42 PM
So you seem to be fine with future generations of Russian babies forced to eat dirt just because your glorious leader has ruined the country?

Sounds as a nightmarish dream of Russophobe  :o
It seems our glorious leader failed to ruin the country. The index of industrial production in December 2014 has shown the highest value in the year, probably as the result of import substitution. So eating dirt is postponed. May be next leader will succeed in ruining Russia but I would not rely on it too much  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 27, 2015, 02:03:24 PM
Sounds as a nightmarish dream of Russophobe  :o
It seems our glorious leader failed to ruin the country. The index of industrial production in December 2014 has shown the highest value in the year, probably as the result of import substitution. So eating dirt is postponed. May be next leader will succeed in ruining Russia but I would not rely on it too much  :)

Uh-huh. Nazi Germany's industrial production was at it's peak during '43/'44. Probably as a result of import substitution as well.  :P

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on January 27, 2015, 02:06:44 PM
I won't because I don't read this site.
You can tell about this "accuracy" to our American members (they will believe anything), but you (and I )know that one can write anything what he thinks. Only official papers give you true number, nobody have these papers.
Both sides lie and we don't know what is truth what is not.
Censor. net is the least reliable source.

Doll, that one post is quite telling about you. Why would you think what one writes would be any less credible than what an "official" papers or release cites? Do you not believe your government officials will lie to you?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 27, 2015, 02:07:56 PM
If Russian troops aren't helping the rebels, tell us how a handful of rebels is pushing back an army of an entire nation? I'm not asking for proof, just your opinion.
There is no need in Russian troops at Donbass now, rebels have got own armies, but of course technical specialists and aides are there. And they are not a handful, around 25-30 thousands of motivated rebels vs. about 50 thousands of partially demoralized Ukrainian soldiers. Entire nation has very serious difficulties to call for army service even 50 thousands for troops rotation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 27, 2015, 02:11:25 PM
Uh-huh. Nazi Germany's industrial production was at it's peak during '43/'44. Probably as a result of import substitution as well.  :P
Yeah, Germany had chosen the wrong enemy to fight with at it's peak during '43/'44. Somebody wants to repeat their mistake  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 02:17:17 PM
Well, the official documents tell Russian mothers that their sons died from mysterious, yet unexplained, accidents in the Rostov region. Very believable, indeed.
Did you see these papers?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 27, 2015, 02:19:56 PM
Yeah, Germany had chosen the wrong enemy to fight with at it's peak during '43/'44. Somebody wants to repeat their mistake  :D

That's an astute observation. You're right, Germany did choose the wrong enemy-the U.S. If Germany hadn't stupidly declared war on the U.S. allowing America into the European theatre Hitler wouldn't have been forced  to divert resources elsewhere and would have won his war on the Eastern front.  ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 02:22:10 PM
Yeah, Germany had chosen the wrong enemy to fight with at it's peak during '43/'44. Somebody wants to repeat their mistake  :D
They forgot!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 02:22:37 PM
There is no need in Russian troops at Donbass now, rebels have got own armies, but of course technical specialists and aides are there. And they are not a handful, around 25-30 thousands of motivated rebels vs. about 50 thousands of partially demoralized Ukrainian soldiers. Entire nation has very serious difficulties to call for army service even 50 thousands for troops rotation.


Yep, they are really demoralized.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB3PiKhe41c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB3PiKhe41c)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2015, 02:23:00 PM
I won't because I don't read this site.
Then how can you know what is written there is the "least reliable source"?
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 02:23:49 PM
Then how can you know what is written there is the "least reliable source"?


Because it goes against the Russian propaganda?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 02:25:56 PM
Then how can you know what is written there is the "least reliable source"?

 Ouiji board?

 Woman's intuition?

Miss Cleo called her?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
Hey Beavis, more demoralization.


http://gordonua.com/news/localnews/V-Odesse-zaderzhali-treh-moldavan-s-arsenalom-oruzhiya-Fotoreportazh-63471.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 27, 2015, 02:28:58 PM
The index of industrial production in December 2014 has shown the highest value in the year, probably as the result of import substitution. So eating dirt is postponed.



Some people have a funny idea that a nation's existence depends on doing business with the West. Russia has much more access to raw materials and fossil fuels than Stalin did. Russia still has enough trading partners to get what they don't have. Don't always need money to buy, just trade resources.


I'm not surprised Russia's industrial production is up. Import substitution is one reason, another reason is Putin's desire to create more military hardware.


http://rbth.com/business/2014/09/10/ruble_devaluation_and_sanctions_result_in_growth_for_russian_manufac_39669.html


http://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/russian-industrial-production-3.9-vs.-0.2-forecast-325083


http://www.nasdaq.com/article/russia-industrial-output-expands-20141119-00379


Germany did choose the wrong enemy-the U.S. If Germany hadn't stupidly declared war on the U.S. allowing America into the European theatre Hitler wouldn't have been forced  to divert resources elsewhere and would have won his war on the Eastern front.  ;)



Not only did America divert Hitler's attention from the Eastern front, America sent Stalin the military equipment Russia needed to initially get out of the crap Stalin put Russia in when they partnered up with Hitler.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 27, 2015, 02:33:38 PM
Hey Beavis, more demoralization.


http://gordonua.com/news/localnews/V-Odesse-zaderzhali-treh-moldavan-s-arsenalom-oruzhiya-Fotoreportazh-63471.html

 There's been quite a few shown on the local news that are caught. I wonder if those were actually from Russia's stolen part of Muldova, Transisteria?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 27, 2015, 02:37:26 PM
Not only did America divert Hitler's attention from the Eastern front, America sent Stalin the military equipment Russia needed to initially get out of the crap Stalin put Russia in when they partnered up with Hitler.

Exactly. However, "The Boss" disappeared all those inconvenient details after the war and substituted his own version of history which, I'm sure, Belvis is now going to regurgitate at length for us.  :P

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 02:39:52 PM

Some people have a funny idea blah, blah, blah


http://rbth.com/business/2014/09/10/ruble_devaluation_and_sanctions_result_in_growth_for_russian_manufac_39669.html (http://rbth.com/business/2014/09/10/ruble_devaluation_and_sanctions_result_in_growth_for_russian_manufac_39669.html)


http://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/russian-industrial-production-3.9-vs.-0.2-forecast-325083 (http://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/russian-industrial-production-3.9-vs.-0.2-forecast-325083)


http://www.nasdaq.com/article/russia-industrial-output-expands-20141119-00379 (http://www.nasdaq.com/article/russia-industrial-output-expands-20141119-00379)





Sure Billy. It makes sense when you use old reports to augment your argument, namely the first and last link. Both a few months old and totally irrelevant in TODAY's market climate. What really matters is what I posted on reply #2181 of this thread.


If you are too lazy to scroll back, here. No excuse to read.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg391066#msg391066 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg391066#msg391066)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 02:50:05 PM
Then how can you know what is written there is the "least reliable source"?
I did read a little but I won't read it to prove you inaccuracy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 27, 2015, 02:50:46 PM
Propoganda or truth? Belvis and Doll, what do think of Putin when he makes military purchases his top priority? Buying military hardware is a good investment if Putin plans on putting it to use. Agree or is it a waste of taxpayer money?


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-s-military-purchases-drive-manufacturing-growth-hiding-stagnation-beyond/507690.html



 Both a few months old and totally irrelevant in TODAY's market climate.



A few months old is still relevant since it shows Russia's industrial production isn't negatively affected by the sanctions. The middle link reports Jan 2015 and supports Belvis when he said Russia's industrial production is going up. That is not a good thing for Ukraine and the West because I believe the production is up in the military sector more than any other sector. When the West decides to act against Russia, we will be facing a more dangerous foe. I'm sure Obama will let the next President deal with it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2015, 02:54:05 PM
I did read a little but I won't read it to prove you inaccuracy.
So how can you know it is inaccurate?  Almost everything reported on censor.net has been reported by various other sources.  It has a nationalistic bent, but with one exception (it reported a false story, but quickly noted its error, reported that, and removed the article), everything I have read reported on the site has proven to be factual.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 27, 2015, 03:06:46 PM
Quote
Did you see these papers?

I have a better idea, Doll. Why don't you redirect that question to those mothers?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 03:35:02 PM
Propoganda or truth? Belvis and Doll, what do think of Putin when he makes military purchases his top priority? Buying military hardware is a good investment if Putin plans on putting it to use. Agree or is it a waste of taxpayer money?


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-s-military-purchases-drive-manufacturing-growth-hiding-stagnation-beyond/507690.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-s-military-purchases-drive-manufacturing-growth-hiding-stagnation-beyond/507690.html)



A few months old is still relevant since it shows Russia's industrial production isn't negatively affected by the sanctions. The middle link reports Jan 2015 and supports Belvis when he said Russia's industrial production is going up. That is not a good thing for Ukraine and the West because I believe the production is up in the military sector more than any other sector. When the West decides to act against Russia, we will be facing a more dangerous foe. I'm sure Obama will let the next President deal with it.


Let me go very slow, just for you Billy.


The link I provided was of today's analysis of Rossyia receiving junk bond status from S&P and that MOST probably Fitch's and Moody's will follow suit. That is THREE credit rating outfits that most of the WORLD investors use to put their money in.


Follow me so far?


When the three outfits give Rossyia the distinction of junk bond, business will pick up shop and move. Capice?


So, the months old links to Rossyiaia's business climate are just that, junk.


That Rossyia's industrial output is increasing, well if they don't make some Soviet-quality shit to substitute Western-quality shit, their shelves will be bare. Just like the good old days. As a matter of fact it is going back to the good old Soviet-relic days.


Still with me?


Now, imagine all this military armament being built to Soviet-standard quality? What do you think it will do against the rest of the world? Remember the old Soviet-mentality type of fight? Send a mass of materiel to the front and eventually one or two will get through? Ah, but this time they don't have Ukrainian, Kazakh, Uzbek, Belarussian, Polish, Hungarian, et.al. at their disposal.


Heh, heh, heh

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 27, 2015, 03:43:42 PM
Below are some quite precise numbers and specific description in a Ukrainian release of information.
As stated above-- the same site also publishes details of Ukrainian losses and injuries.History tells us that this site is a reliable source.
By way of contrast--what comes out of Russia is totally unreliable and questionable on a more often than not scale.
Above--Beavis again refuses to acknowledge that there are Russian troops in Ukraine.Doll and others refuse to acknowledge that point--despite the overwhelming evidence and the conclusions of many respected sources-- and continue to follow Putins line of denial.
Even more ridiculous--to challenge everyone else's honesty!!  How laughable was Putin's claim that Nato was fighting in eastern Ukraine--perhaps that was who his troops were attacking in Mariupol? Everyone else is wrong-but Putin and his apologists?



As a result, the Ukrainian Army special operations aviation destroyed the terrorists - the General Staff (Updated)
Terrorists continue to incur substantial losses in manpower and equipment.

It is reported Tsenzor.NET with reference to the press service of the Ministry of Defense . "In the course of warfare, all attempts to attack militant positions in the Ukrainian military district Nikishin, Redkodub, Novoivanovka, Novogrigorevka in the direction Popasnaya and settlements for water, experienced, Marinka Maori and were repulsed. The terrorists suffered heavy losses of manpower and equipment, "- said in a statement. Read on "Tsenzor.NET": Ukrainian soldiers continue to turn the enemy's military equipment in scrap metal, and staff to mark "200" and "300", - OK "North" According to the ministry, for the last day, from 26 to 27 January, during hostilities Ukrainian military fighting vehicles destroyed 4, 5 and 7 ACS units of automotive engineering. "On the eve of Armed Forces of Ukraine was destroyed 4 tanks, 9 armored combat vehicles, 4 MLRS "Smerch" MLRS 12 "Grad", 18 units of automotive engineering, one aircraft L -39, 2 AN 2, one Yak-52 aircraft Yak- 50 2 and 4 of the Mi-24 " - added to the Ministry of Defence. The same information was confirmed by the General Staff. This was " Ukrainian Truth "said Acting head of the press center of the General Staff Vladislav Seleznev, reports Tsenzor.NET . "In the area of ATO as a result of the special operation militants destroyed aircraft equipment. This is the same technique that shows off the militants, who told us that they have the aircraft, which they planned to use against our forces located in the area of ATO, "- said Seleznev. He did not specify exactly where the airport, noting that this information is closed. "This hostile technique. Mi-24 - it is military equipment," - he said.
 Источник: http://censor.net.ua/n321813
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 03:55:45 PM
I have a better idea, Doll. Why don't you redirect that question to those mothers?
Ах, оставьте ваши бредовые предложения вашим амер. почитателям :D
Вот щас все брошу и перешлю им вопросы. Адресок не подкинете, уважаемый вы наш международник?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 27, 2015, 03:59:58 PM

The link I provided was of today's analysis of Rossyia receiving junk bond status from S&P and that MOST probably Fitch's and Moody's will follow suit. That is THREE credit rating outfits that most of the WORLD investors use to put their money in.

Sorry, man, you're very far away from understanding how Russian economics works.  ;)
Credit ratings do not matter now, investor have gone long ago after sanctions had began. OK, you can believe in great power of ratings but trust me, ratings will not delay the construction of new missile carrying submarines.

Hey Beavis, more demoralization.

I recommend you to read carefully what adviser for Poroshenko is writing (in russian). Consider it as the inside instead of propaganda fiction you are fed:
http://www.facebook.com/yuri.biriukov/posts/1553558451579633
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 27, 2015, 04:02:44 PM
Ах, оставьте ваши бредовые предложения вашим амер. почитателям :D
Вот щас все брошу и перешлю им вопросы. Адресок не подкинете, уважаемый вы наш международник?

Mende's credibility is clearly established--  in sharp contrast with basic lies emanating from Russian outlets controlled by the Kremlin who are proven purveyors of lies.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 04:07:34 PM
Mende's credibility is clearly established-- 
Ага- в мраморе и бронзе. Причем, на самом почитаемом в мире форуме- рашенвимендискашн. Хахаааааааааааааааа
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on January 27, 2015, 04:08:23 PM
Sorry, man, you're very far away from understanding how Russian economics works.  ;)
Credit ratings do not matter now, investor have gone long ago after sanctions had began. OK, you can believe in great power of ratings but trust me, ratings will not delay the construction of new missile carrying submarines.


Actually it does. One doesn't really begin to feel the sting until the money and the raw materials run out.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 27, 2015, 04:08:32 PM
Below are some quite precise numbers and specific description in a Ukrainian release of information.
:D :D :D :D
Popular joke in Russia:
- Do you know how Russian-Ukrainian war is going on?
- Ukraine lost 10 tanks, 5 planes and 2000 soldiers, but they're attacking and close to victory.
- And Russia?
- Russia ignored the war.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 27, 2015, 04:11:22 PM
Actually it does. One doesn't really begin to feel the sting until the money and the raw materials run out.

Not for this case. Foreign money had run out a year ago, and raw materials are here, they have no legs to run  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 27, 2015, 04:19:36 PM
:D :D :D :D
Popular joke in Russia:
- Do you know how Russian-Ukrainian war is going on?
- Ukraine lost 10 tanks, 5 planes and 2000 soldiers, but they're attacking and close to victory.
- And Russia?
- Russia ignored the war.
Россия на войну не явилась  :D :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 27, 2015, 04:53:51 PM
Sorry, man, you're very far away from understanding how Russian economics works.  ;)
Credit ratings do not matter now, investor have gone long ago after sanctions had began. OK, you can believe in great power of ratings but trust me, ratings will not delay the construction of new missile carrying submarines.

You are correct.  Russia can always print more money, not pay submarine and missile workers, rob Peter to pay Paul, etc.  Regardless, one day the piper must be paid. 

Your history books have such examples.  The Soviets were speaking the same bluster in the 1980s, and how did that go?  Answer:  oil production spiraled down because investments in oil fields were curtailed.     And what happened after that? 

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Top_Oil_Producing_Counties.png)

Saudi Arabia, long the swing producer, is not lowering its production.  Saudi would welcome seeing its competitors decline (Russia, the US fracking, etc.).  Saudi does not want to revisit what happened in the 1980s when it cut production in an effort to keep prices high.  Saudis are smiling today, knowing what is ahead.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 27, 2015, 04:59:04 PM

I recommend you to read carefully what adviser for Poroshenko is writing (in russian). Consider it as the inside instead of propaganda fiction you are fed:



I do not know him and I am unable to read it, so I can not comment.  Just remember, Ukrainians are fighting on their homeland.  Your history books speak of such, e. g., Soviets vs. Nazis and Mujahideen vs. Soviets. 

This is far from over.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 27, 2015, 05:06:01 PM
Sorry, man, you're very far away from understanding how Russian economics works.  ;)




Sorry man, you're very far away from understanding how world economy, and therefore, geopolitics work.


But that's okay. Keep yourself insulated. It's cold outside.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 27, 2015, 05:20:06 PM
OK, you can believe in great power of ratings but trust me, ratings will not delay the construction of new missile carrying submarines.


Ahhhhh! Your tax money hard at work. Building more submarines instead of schools, hospitals or repairing roads.

Let's hope the Russian tax payers get their money's worth and these fine Russian quality new submarines don't all end up on the ocean floor permanently in a military conflict.  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 27, 2015, 05:22:34 PM


Let's hope the Russian tax payers get their money's worth and these fine Russian quality new submarines don't all end up on the ocean floor permanently in a military conflict.  :)

Some Ruski subs end up on the ocean floor without being in a military conflict.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 27, 2015, 06:50:42 PM
Belvis,

This is what one of the world's foremost economists thinks about the downgrading of Russian credit rating to "junk status."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/26/investing/russia-credit-rating-junk/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 27, 2015, 07:04:38 PM
Belvis,

This is what one of the world's foremost economists thinks about the downgrading of Russian credit rating to "junk status."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/26/investing/russia-credit-rating-junk/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight (http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/26/investing/russia-credit-rating-junk/index.html?iid=HP_Highlight)
For better or worse, what it appears that economist is saying is that the 'junk' status increases the likelihood of further Russian 'adventurism' as he called it. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 27, 2015, 07:20:26 PM
Published on 27 Jan 2015
At the disposal of our channel video fragments were questioning APU captive "volunteer" Ruslan Genzhaeva - citizen of Russia, told about the methods by which he was forced to go to war in Ukraine.
See story Sotnik-TV. Journalist - Sasha centurion shooting and editing - Roman Pereverzev Support

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DapHLBBHS7M
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 27, 2015, 10:04:47 PM
Now, imagine all this military armament being built to Soviet-standard quality? What do you think it will do against the rest of the world? Remember the old Soviet-mentality type of fight? Send a mass of materiel to the front and eventually one or two will get through?



That Soviet quality crap years ago helped create an influence so large that it rivals the largest empires known to mankind. Russia's newest military equipment is closer to par with the West's technology. Putin's focuses on building up his military instead of healing his economy is everybody's concern. Doll and Belvis didn't answer my last question about Putin's drive to build up Russia's military. Kind of like the elephant in the room Russians choose to ignore. I say Putin is going to use that military hardware. He needs to take someone's land to make up the losses in Russia's economy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 27, 2015, 11:02:32 PM

That Soviet quality crap years ago helped create an influence so large that it rivals the largest empires known to mankind. Russia's newest military equipment is closer to par with the West's technology. Putin's focuses on building up his military instead of healing his economy is everybody's concern. Doll and Belvis didn't answer my last question about Putin's drive to build up Russia's military. Kind of like the elephant in the room Russians choose to ignore. I say Putin is going to use that military hardware. He needs to take someone's land to make up the losses in Russia's economy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires

Of course he plans on using it to support his expansionist policy.  Russian doesn't exactly have anyone wanting to invade Russia.  Why else would he spend that much money when it is needed for other things.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 27, 2015, 11:36:31 PM
Of course he plans on using it to support his expansionist policy.  Russian doesn't exactly have anyone wanting to invade Russia.  Why else would he spend that much money when it is needed for other things.

 The dead heads idea of capitalism to  increase the size of the market -invade more countries and create captive market.!! Duh-- and people keep trying to tell us this guy is not dumb!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 28, 2015, 01:13:02 AM
Saudis are smiling today, knowing what is ahead.
You know what Arabs think? OK, bet your stake, we'll see in a year how good you know Arabs :)

Just remember, Ukrainians are fighting on their homeland.
Tell that people at Donbass. Though I agree with you, those fighting at their land will win :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on January 28, 2015, 04:05:21 AM
Belvis,

         Glad to know you believe the Ukrainian people of Donbass and the Ukrainian troops will defeat the pro-Russian separatist criminals/terrorists and invading Russian troops and mercenaries. :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 28, 2015, 04:43:29 AM
Glad to know you believe the Ukrainian people of Donbass and the Ukrainian troops will defeat the pro-Russian separatist criminals/terrorists and invading Russian troops and mercenaries. :)

Fine. So if Donbass will separate from Ukraine you'll acknowledge Ukrainian army as aggressor invading land of Novorussians.
Deal  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on January 28, 2015, 04:49:38 AM
I am confused- who are "pro-Russian terrorist" of Donbass? Aliens or Ukrainians? ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 28, 2015, 04:54:20 AM
land of Novorussians.


Hmmmmm..... where have I heard of that name before?
From a children fairy tale book?  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 08:12:43 AM
Fine. So if Donbass will separate from Ukraine you'll acknowledge Ukrainian army as aggressor invading land of Novorussians.
Deal  :D


First, you are assuming the terrorists want to separate.  They don't.  They just want to rule the area.  They still want someone else (Kyiv, Moscow doesn't want them) to pay the bills.


Second, you are assuming the majority of the peoples on those lands wish to have some form of independence.  That, too, is an assumption that is not based on fact.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 28, 2015, 02:32:48 PM

That Soviet quality crap years ago helped create an influence so large that it rivals the largest empires known to mankind. Russia's newest military equipment is closer to par with the West's technology. Putin's focuses on building up his military instead of healing his economy is everybody's concern. Doll and Belvis didn't answer my last question about Putin's drive to build up Russia's military. Kind of like the elephant in the room Russians choose to ignore. I say Putin is going to use that military hardware. He needs to take someone's land to make up the losses in Russia's economy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires)


Here Billy, educate yourself.


http://russiamil.wordpress.com/
2015/01/27/russian-air-force-capabilities-and-procurement-plans/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 28, 2015, 04:05:28 PM
You know what Arabs think? OK, bet your stake, we'll see in a year how good you know Arabs :)

Arabs!  Arabs are a diverse lot, extending from Morocco to Iraq.  Based on the squabbling among themselves, all Arabs clearly don't think the same.    So I  can not claim to [using your words] "know what Arabs think."   

I do know that the swing producer Saudi Arabia is intent on keeping its share of the oil market by driving high cost producers out of business.  Yesterday I gave you an excellent chart of oil production over the years by various producers (see Reply 2228).  That chart shows that in the early 1980s the Saudis reduced production by about 70% to drive the price upwards.  Other countries maintained if not increased the production levels, e.g. Iran, Russia.   Thus, the Saudis lost market share. They  will not repeat that mistake.     

In fact, the Saudis are raising production to drive the price down, and their purpose is to reduce competition.  New fracking projects will be shelved.  Russia, Venezuela, and Iran will not have as much capital to invest in maintaining and replacing its current production levels (this is shown in the chart for USSR-Russia in the period 1985-95), so their production will slacken.   

Meanwhile Saudi Arabia keeps producing, thereby maintaining its market share.  Slowly the demand and supply equation will find balance and price will recover.  Saudis will not have lost their market share, and unlike the 1980s they will take full advantage of the higher price. 

The supply currently exceeds demand by only about 2 million bbl.  So it will not take long to bring the equation into balance.  In 18 months, I guess a price of $70/bbl.  Longer if QE does not work in the EU, if China does not ramp up its domestic economy, if Putin continues his nationalistic adventurism, etc.  There is much oil in storage and that has to be worked down too.

What is your number and when?  The wager?   Dollars only, as I do not know what a 'rubble' will be worth. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 05:37:35 PM
This is for all those who claim the so called "rebels" who are "only fighting for their own rights".  This family was killed near their home in Mariuopol, a city that does not support the so called "rebels".  Tell their crying families that Putin is protecting them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84924572&v=29DhYERU3G0&x-yt-ts=1422411861#t=61
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 28, 2015, 06:38:29 PM
This is for all those who claim the so called "rebels" who are "only fighting for their own rights".


No, they're the "freedom fighters" struggling to rid themselves of the tyranny of the illegal government in Kiev.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 28, 2015, 06:43:21 PM

No, they're the "freedom fighters" struggling to rid themselves of the tyranny of the illegal government in Kiev.

Oh???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DapHLBBHS7M&x-yt-ts=1422411861&x-yt-cl=84924572
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 28, 2015, 06:56:15 PM
Yep
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 07:02:54 PM

No, they're the "freedom fighters" struggling to rid themselves of the tyranny of the illegal government in Kiev.


The government in Kyiv is not illegal.  It was legally elected pursuant to Ukraine's constitution.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 28, 2015, 07:05:43 PM
It was a mob take over.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 07:11:16 PM
No it wasn't.  Yanukovych was unpopular because of his corruption.  Ukrainians were fairly united about that, both in the East and the West.  Corruption had grown to extremes during his presidency.


All of the politicians now in the Rada, and the president, were elected.  Poroshenko is the first Ukrainian president to be elected by a plurality across the country (i.e., not a divided vote).  Note -I am not a supporter of any Ukrainian politician, however, those are the facts. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 28, 2015, 07:58:19 PM
Yes Yanukovich was crooked and unpopular but he was run out of town by a mob.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 28, 2015, 08:00:42 PM
Yes Yanukovich was crooked and unpopular but he was run out of town by a mob.

It doesn't matter.  The current government was legally elected.  Get over it!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 28, 2015, 08:03:46 PM
Yes Yanukovich was crooked and unpopular but he was run out of town by a mob.

Well he robbed their country blind and thumbed his nose at them to add insult to injury.  Clearly he did order Berkut or someone to shoot protestors dead so what would you expect Ukraine to do?  Throw him a party?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 08:04:34 PM
Yes Yanukovich was crooked and unpopular but he was run out of town by a mob.


No he wasn't.  He chose to run away.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 28, 2015, 08:07:07 PM
Well he robbed their country blind and thumbed his nose at them to add insult to injury.  Clearly he did order Berkut or someone to shoot protestors dead so what would you expect Ukraine to do?  Throw him a party?


So you admit it was a coup.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 28, 2015, 08:08:01 PM

No he wasn't.  He chose to run away.


At the point of a gun.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 28, 2015, 08:10:44 PM

So you admit it was a coup.

No I did not say that.  He resigned by leaving.  Had he not left he would have been arrested and he would be sitting in jail facing some serious charges.  Either way due to dereliction of duty and numerous violations of the laws of his land Ukrainians had a legal right to elect a new government and they did.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 28, 2015, 08:11:24 PM

No he wasn't.  He chose to run away.


Sure, he chose to leave because he understood his life was in jeopardy and did not have police protection.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/world/europe/ukraine-leader-was-defeated-even-before-he-was-ousted.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/world/europe/ukraine-leader-was-defeated-even-before-he-was-ousted.html?_r=0)

Quote


With the presidential administration building and also his home unguarded from the afternoon of Friday, Feb. 21, Mr. Yanukovych judged that it was time for him, too, to leave Kiev, at least for a few days, his associates said.

“When they removed the guards around the presidential administration, he had to leave,” said Mr. Dobkin, who was serving at the time as governor of Kharkiv, an industrial eastern region in whose capital, Kharkiv, Mr. Yanukovych had decided to seek refuge on Friday evening.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 28, 2015, 08:12:02 PM

At the point of a gun.

You are confusing an illegal referendum in Crimea with a corrupt politician who was about to be arrested.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 28, 2015, 08:13:34 PM
It doesn't matter.  The current government was legally elected.  Get over it!


The ends DON'T justify the means...except of course when you agree with the outcome.  :rolleyes:


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 08:56:27 PM

At the point of a gun.


That is simply untrue.  He could have stayed and faced impeachment.  But, he chose to take millions he'd stolen and flee.


There is $1.42 billion sitting in non resident bank accounts frozen by the Ukrainian government that was stolen by Yanukovych and his clan. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 08:57:54 PM

Sure, he chose to leave because he understood his life was in jeopardy and did not have police protection.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/world/europe/ukraine-leader-was-defeated-even-before-he-was-ousted.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/world/europe/ukraine-leader-was-defeated-even-before-he-was-ousted.html?_r=0)


I don't believe his life was ever in jeopardy.  I reject that analysis.  Name one politician who died at the hands of the opposition on the collapse of the Rada coalition.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 08:59:06 PM

The ends DON'T justify the means...except of course when you agree with the outcome.  :rolleyes:


Fathertime!


But the point is, the current government was legally elected.  Even had it stayed in power, the composition had changed because the Party of Regions never had a majority, and they lost the support of their coalition partners.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 28, 2015, 09:02:19 PM

I don't believe his life was ever in jeopardy.  I reject that analysis.  Name one politician who died at the hands of the opposition on the collapse of the Rada coalition.


I don't get the argument here.  Do you think Obama would feel "at risk" if he had no protection?  If Yanu walked through Maiden without any protection his life wouldn't have been in jeopardy?    The dude was getting blamed for the sniper attacks.  His life was in jeopardy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 09:10:24 PM
Again, I ask.  Name one Ukrainian politician, or even a policeman, who was found complicit in the Maidan killings who has been killed in revenge. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 28, 2015, 09:13:13 PM
Again, I ask.  Name one Ukrainian politician, or even a policeman, who was found complicit in the Maidan killings who has been killed in revenge.


Your reasoning makes no sense to me.  No President of any country should be without protection yet you think Yanukovych should be. Again, do you think Yanukovych could have walked by himself through Maiden without worrying about his life?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2015, 09:16:53 PM

Your reasoning makes no sense.  No President of any country should be without protection yet you think Yanukovych should be. Again, do you think Yanukovych could have walked by himself through Maiden without worrying about his life?


Yes, I do.  I think the Maidan protesters wanted a trial, not immediate death. 


Yanukovych did, in fact, have protection.  His entourage was with him in Kharkiv, and many went with him to Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 28, 2015, 09:19:09 PM

Yes, I do.  I think the Maidan protesters wanted a trial, not immediate death. 


Yanukovych did, in fact, have protection.  His entourage was with him in Kharkiv, and many went with him to Russia.


We will have to disagree.  I think he would have been torn apart especially after the sniper attacks.  I would have thought I was in danger and left if I had been in the same situation.   


  I don't think any President should be without adequate protection.  No, an entourage isn't what I consider protection when talking about a President of a country.   Especially when dealing with a situation that occurred in Maiden. 


Bo, I remember you originally thought this was a coup.  What changed your mind if you don't mind me asking?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on January 28, 2015, 09:27:54 PM
This is something that really hasn't grabbed western media's attention so far but the Russian media's covering it in some detail...

PACE Votes to Deprive Russia of Voting Rights, Again

..."The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) voted Wednesday to deprive Russia of its rights within the assembly for the second consecutive session, a decision that could mark the country's exit from the legislative body, state news agency RIA Novosti reported.

PACE voted last April to suspend some of the Russian delegation's rights within the assembly, including its rights to vote and be represented on certain committees. The decision came in the aftermath of Russia's annexation of Crimea, which PACE said "constituted, beyond any doubt, a grave violation of international law."

PACE's monitoring committee adopted Wednesday an amendment to the resolution that had stripped Russia of its rights, prolonging the limitations on its full participation in the organization. Russian parliamentarian Leonid Slutsky told RIA Novosti that 35 parliamentarians had voted in favor of the amendment, while 34 cast their ballots against it.

State Duma speaker Sergei Naryshkin, who leads the Russian delegation to PACE, told Russian media that the country would no longer take part in the assembly if it was stripped of its rights once again."...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/pace-votes-to-deprive-russia-of-voting-rights-again/515075.html

...What's a PACE you ask? ...

..."PACE is a 47-member state organization dedicated to upholding human rights, democracy and the rule of law, overseeing the EU Court of Human Rights. It meets four times a year since 1949 in Strasbourg to adopt recommendations, resolutions and opinions, which serve as guidelines for the Committee of Ministers, national governments, parliaments and political parties....

It's significant in my mind because it was these guys that had the best chance of getting Nadiya Savchenko released. Not going to happen now as Russia's withdrawn the offer to even visit her.

Russia has also suspended PACE's human rights monitoring inside Russia.

More here from RT for whatever that's worth...

http://rt.com/news/227107-pace-resolution-against-russia/

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 29, 2015, 01:51:06 AM
What is your number and when?  The wager?   Dollars only, as I do not know what a 'rubble' will be worth.
OK, your considerations sound solid, I'm agree with your analysis.  Everybody has to fight for his share of market, and the price of oil must be regulated by supply and demand, not by cartels.
Does not matter what ruble will be worth, industrial production and GDP does. I give no numbers as I have no Crystall Ball and there are no proven methods to predict oil price.
Higher prices will be clear bonus for Russia, but its economics and resourses let her accomodate to any price. To be honest, we're all interested in  oil storage never ends and acceptable price of gas. World of Mad Max is not what I'd like  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 29, 2015, 02:21:53 AM
The potential to increase sanctions with specific Russian targets is looming !!
The new rules request that the dots needed to be joined for relevance--ok-- simply-- target Russain wealth all over the world and freeze assets until it can be proven that assets were obtained legitimately-- and fairly! It will not take long for Putin to get heat over this !!dot dot dot
In Britain began an all-out inspection wealth and property Russians

Checks associated with sanctions against Russia. TSN.ua British banks check the condition n British banks have undertaken to check Russian businessmen . This writes on social networks businessman Yevgeny Chichvarkin, who because of pressure from the security services had to move to London. Banks asked to Chichvarkina and other Russian businessmen to describe in detail the origin of their wealth and property
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 29, 2015, 02:58:30 AM
A coup?

When armed men stormed parliament and unseated the government? Yes, a coup.

When those same armed men marched those parliament ministers back in and forced them to call for new elections? Yes, a coup.

When a new, and UNELECTED, government was seated? Yes, a coup.

Where? Crimea.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 29, 2015, 03:01:58 AM

Does not matter what ruble will be worth,

Does matter if you need to buy some type of medicine that Russia doesn't produce locally, unless you plan to adopt a medieval lifestyle and use herbal remedies instead.
What will the regime's new slogan be; "Endure cancer and die earlier for Putin" rather than "Eat less for Putin"?

Does matter if you need to buy a smart phone as Russia doesn't manufacture them locally, unless you plan to accept a drop in living standards.

But wait... isn't a drop in living standards precisely what the regime is telling the population to expect and get use to?  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 29, 2015, 05:16:13 AM
Russian Deputies Complain About High Porridge Prices in State Canteen
By Delphine d'Amora
Jan. 28 2015 18:41

As food prices soar around the nation, a lawmaker in Russia's lower house of parliament has spoken out on a deeply troubling issue: the rising cost of porridge in the parliament's cafeteria.

Sergei Ivanov, a member of the Liberal Democratic Party, on Wednesday called on his colleagues to wage the war against inflation every day, beginning in their very own backyard.

"In our cafeteria, the price of a bowl of porridge has risen 150 percent," news agency Interfax quoted Ivanov as saying. "We can't even make sense of that — before it cost 20 rubles, now 53 rubles."

The deputy's announcement caused such a stir that a spokesman for the Office of Presidential Affairs decided to set the record straight.

"We don't live in a vacuum," spokesman Viktor Khrekov told Interfax, explaining that if wholesalers raise their prices, the cost of food in the State Duma's cafeteria must automatically rise too.

The average price of food products soared 15.4 percent last year and is expected to continue rising as Russia's ban on a group of Western food imports and the steep devaluation of the ruble take their toll.

In a separate interview with radio station Govorit Moskva, spokesman Khrekov said that the Office of Presidential Affairs considers its prices "quite low," as — being a state enterprise — it can keep markups to a minimum.

And in truth, even the new price of 53 rubles ($0.80) is quite a deal. In the popular Russian cafe chain Coffee House, a bowl of wheat or rice porridge will cost you 145 rubles ($2.10).

Nor will the higher price be much of a burden on lawmakers' wallets. State Duma deputies earned 420,000 rubles ($6,200) a month as of September last year, newspaper Argumentу i Fakty reported.

This is more than 13 times the salary of the average Russian, who earned about 32,000 rubles ($500) a month at that time, according to state statistics service Rosstat.

The Duma deputy's complaints reaped withering irony on Russian social media. "That's it, a revolt is coming," one user wrote on Twitter.

Others marveled at the extraordinarily low porridge prices the Duma had enjoyed to begin with.

"In my journalism faculty (which is near the State Duma, incidentally), porridge even a year ago was way more expensive. And for some reason this didn't bother the deputies," journalist Alyona Vershinina wrote on Twitter.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 29, 2015, 06:16:56 AM
They sure know how to leave and steal everything..
 Oh Those Classy Russians at PACE!  :rolleyes:

 After they lose their voting rights for 6 months they say they'll leave for a year, cutting off their nose to spite the face.

 And just as the door was slamming them in the arse..  :clapping:

 "cleaned out" their offices in PACE: light bulbs and took even toilet paper - journalist



The Russian delegation of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) scandal has left his office, before taking with them all the office and even vykrutyvshy bulb.

The press secretary of the State Ecological Inspectorate of Ukraine Igor Tikholaz referring to journalists who were also in Strasbourg.

"From Strasbourg friends told news reporters who went there at PACE session, which yesterday afternoon put the door of representatives of the scandal ... They left their office, slamming the door. But before that cleaned them at zero - took office ( pens, pencils, paper A-4, staplers, profiles), where some places povykruchuvaly bulbs and even toilet soap and toilet paper grabbed. "- he writes.

He noted that members of the PACE office deeply surprised with the first encounter.
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Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 29, 2015, 06:44:40 AM
A coup?

When armed men stormed parliament and unseated the government? Yes, a coup.

When those same armed men marched those parliament ministers back in and forced them to call for new elections? Yes, a coup.

When a new, and UNELECTED, government was seated? Yes, a coup.

Where? Crimea.

Maybe the reality check will help those who have lost their moral compass.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 29, 2015, 06:50:13 AM
Defense Ministry increased service pay for soldiers and introduced rewards for each destroyed militants’ piece of equipment


Ukrainian soldiers will start receiving increased service pay. This decision was made today at a meeting of the government.


The draft regulation was developed by the Ministry of Defense on the initiative of President of Ukraine Poroshenko, Censor.NET reports citing the Defense Ministry press service.

The draft resolution provides for the following payments:

Read also: Poroshenko's Administration announces fulfillment of mobilization plan


- The service pay of military who are directly involved in the ATO or military conflict, will be doubled;

- The service pay of military who are directly involved in hostilities since the announcement of military situation, will be tripled;

- A serviceman will additionally receive 1,000 hryvnia ($50) for each day of the direct engagement.

- Additional reward is envisaged for the destruction of the military equipment of the enemy. Thus, the reward for the destruction of the vehicle will be 12,000 hryvnia ($600); the reward for a destroyed tank will be 48,000 hryvnia ($2,400), for a multiple rocket launcher - 60,000 hryvnia ($3,000), for a warplane 121,000 hryvnia ($6,050).

Read also: Special operation of Ukrainian Army destroys terrorists' aviation


The decision comes into  force on the day of its official publication.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 29, 2015, 07:21:45 AM
Maybe the reality check will help those who have lost their moral compass.


I am sure there are members here who would be happy to help you correct your moral compass.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 29, 2015, 07:23:20 AM
A coup?

When armed men stormed parliament and unseated the government? Yes, a coup.

When those same armed men marched those parliament ministers back in and forced them to call for new elections? Yes, a coup.

When a new, and UNELECTED, government was seated? Yes, a coup.

Where? Crimea.


"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"

Gerald Seymour


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 29, 2015, 08:38:26 AM
Russians say international isolation is fine, but lower incomes and loss of Internet access aren?t!

Mikhail Sergeyev, that paper?s chief economics reporter, says that the study shows that the majority of Russian citizens are ready to give up using foreign currency, making trips abroad, using bank cards, and purchasing foreign goods and that they expect they may have to for a lengthy period.

The only exception to this list of self-imposed limitations concerns the Internet and social networks. Nearly half say that they are not prepared to stop using the web, although a majority indicates that it is willing to live with some restrictions. Twenty-two percent of the sample said they don?t use the Internet now, and 37 percent said they would be willing to stop using it.

Moreover, the study found that Russians are very much opposed to any decline in their incomes and benefits or any increase in taxes and fees. Fewer than one in eight supports such ideas. Russians overwhelmingly support their government in its struggle with the West, but they oppose ?attempts by bureaucrats to shift budgetary problems onto the shoulders of citizens.?

?Almost half of the respondents, Institute director Mikhail Gorshkov said, ?agree that the country faces difficult times ahead,? although a quarter say that ?the country is developing successfully,? and another quarter say that they do not expect ?any significant changes in the development of the country.?

Gorshkov stressed that over the last year there has been a fundamental shift in Russian assessments of the source of threats to Russia. A year ago, he says, most viewed any threats as being internal, but now they view them as coming from abroad, with only 18 percent saying there are threats from within the country.

The study suggests that only the very top of society has been much affected by sanctions but that most Russians have been touched by changes in the exchange rate which have sparked inflation and forced Russians to cut back in their spending on recreation, food, clothing, and medicines but led others to purchase goods out of fear that prices will rise still further.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/29/russians-say-international-isolation-is-fine-but-lower-incomes-and-loss-of-internet-access-arent/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 29, 2015, 08:54:10 AM
Doll will be happy to hear that there will be
NO MORE Cargo 200 from Ukraine!

 They'll toast them instead. IIRC that's against the tenants of the RO Religion though.

Russian General Staff expects its casualties at 56-70 killed per day, brought in 7 mobile crematoria

In interview to Channel 5 TV, the Chairman of the Ukrainian Security Service Valentin Nalyvaychenko disclosed that, on the orders of Russia’s General Staff, bodies of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine are burned in mobile crematoria.

According to him, between 20 and 23 January on the orders of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, seven mobile crematoria arrived into the territory of Ukraine temporarily-controlled by the Russian-terrorist forces. The crematoria are mounted on the chassis of KAMAZ trucks.

Nalyvaychenko noted that each of these crematoria burns 8-10 bodies per day [that would mean Russia expects its regular army losses not to exceed 56-70 KIA per day, the total capacity for all 7 crematoria – Transl.]

According to the information, the work of these “death furnaces” is coordinated directly by Russian military intelligence. At the end of 2014, these “special” KAMAZ trucks were reported being in the Rostov oblast of Russia near the border with Ukraine.

Nalyvaychenko said that the hotline established by the Ukrainian Security Service daily receives dozens of calls from Russian citizens searching for their relatives serving in Russian military and sent to Ukraine.

He noted that the Ukrainian government will behave humanely and will return mothers of Russian soldiers the bodies of their sons together with personal effects.

Nalyvaychenko reminded that a few days ago the Security Service publicly expressed its readiness to transfer the body of a Russian citizen Andrey Emelyanov to the Russian side.

However, the Security Service press center later added that the Russian Federation consulate has yet to respond to this offer.



http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/28/russian-general-staff-expects-its-losses-at-56-70-killed-per-day-brought-in-7-mobile-crematoria/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AnonMod on January 29, 2015, 09:16:16 AM
I direct everyone's attention to Mod3's post here.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18830.msg391445#new

I am not going to delete posts yet.  But keep this in mind for the future.  No moderator is going to slog through posts to clean them up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 29, 2015, 09:25:20 AM
Russian General Staff expects its casualties at 56-70 killed per day, brought in 7 mobile crematoria

In interview to Channel 5 TV, the Chairman of the Ukrainian Security Service Valentin Nalyvaychenko disclosed that, on the orders of Russia’s General Staff, bodies of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine are burned in mobile crematoria.

According to him, between 20 and 23 January on the orders of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, seven mobile crematoria arrived into the territory of Ukraine temporarily-controlled by the Russian-terrorist forces. The crematoria are mounted on the chassis of KAMAZ trucks.

Then people ask why Americans are considered to be not very smart. Some posters are certainly contribute in creating this myth  :)
Quote
The chief of Ukraine’s General Military Staff Viktor Muzhenko acknowledged that Russian regular army units were not involved in combat action in the troubled Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

“Right now the Ukrainian army is not engaged in combat operations against Russian regular units,” he underscored.

Muzhenko added, however, that he had information about Russian civilian and military individuals fighting alongside independence supporters in the country’s east.
http://www.5.ua/ato-na-shodi/myjenko-ykrajna-ne-maye-dokaziv-masovoj-ychasti-zbroinih-sil-rf-y-boyah-na-donbasi-68687.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 29, 2015, 09:30:17 AM
It would be helpful for all who post here to give some examples of posts that are okay and some that are not.  I have tried to abide by the policies that  MOD 3 rules seem to embrace, but am unsure if what I have posted in the past meets your new criteria.

Here are two recent postings that I did: 

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17542.msg391073#msg391073

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18349.msg390615#msg390615

Please opine and let me know if this type of posting works under the new policy (which is really an old policy that we seem to have gotten away from).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 29, 2015, 09:40:06 AM


Try again B.. Either you're telling untruths or you used the wrong link or both..

 From your link.

"Muzhenko Is the involvement of Russian citizens and Russian armiytsiv in illegal armed formations in the Donbas
14:51 January 29, 2015 | ATO in the East

Armed Forces General Staff has information about the participation of soldiers of the army of the Russian Federation in the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

This was announced during a briefing Armed Forces Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Victor Muzhenko.

"To date, we have only the involvement of some members of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Russian citizens as part of illegal armed groups in the fighting. Fighting units of the regular Russian army today we're also not. We have enough forces and means in order to inflict a final defeat even illegal armed formation "- he said."








Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 29, 2015, 09:48:13 AM
I direct everyone's attention to Mod3's post here.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18830.msg391445#new

I am not going to delete posts yet.  But keep this in mind for the future.  No moderator is going to slog through posts to clean them up.

 Rather than miscount and have 251 words how about 2 or 3 paragraphs instead?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AnonMod on January 29, 2015, 09:52:26 AM
Both of your examples are fine, jone.  Exactly what we're looking for.

Mike, 251 words would be fine too.  The intent is to get away from posting whole articles.  Just give the readers a synopsis.  And keep it within the RWD reading panes!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 29, 2015, 10:09:16 AM
What reading panes? The quote boxes?
How is that done?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 29, 2015, 10:30:36 AM
Ruble at 69.21 to the dollar today.  No end in sight for slide as expected additional sanctions against Russia give a continued push to the downward spiral of the ruble's value.  In related news oil is now trading at 44 - a six year low. 

Wasn't it just a couple of months ago that there was a joke in Russia that the Ruble, the price per barrel of oil and Putin's age were all going to meet at 62? 

Well, the Ruble is above 62 and going up, the price per barrel of oil is below 62 and headed downward.  But Putin still remains at 62 years of age.  So all must be right in Russia.   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on January 29, 2015, 10:50:54 AM
Either you're telling untruths or you used the wrong link or both.
I have delivered to you more full content of Muzhenko's talk. But if you suppose I told you untruth... ask your wife to translate Ukrainian text, don't use Google translator  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 29, 2015, 03:25:57 PM
What reading panes? The quote boxes?
How is that done?

I think what is meant is that the way the forum is read changes.  Some links will change the reading pane, so you have to scroll across and can't read the whole post without lots of scrolling back and forth.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: bagalia on January 29, 2015, 03:35:59 PM
I have delivered to you more full content of Muzhenko's talk. But if you suppose I told you untruth... ask your wife to translate Ukrainian text, don't use Google translator  ;)

The link is somewhat correct. AT THIS MOMENT there is no proof of direct involvement with the Russian army (proper) in the D/L areas but there has been evidence of active duty military personnel in the fighting. You can also find this evidence in utube interrogations of Russian prisoners complete with military papers.

It is what it does not say that is important.

There is proof that some of the Russian army (proper) is within Russia *Ukraine. Mariupol was not mentioned as one of the locations where the Russian army was not fighting. Most importantly, contract and volunteer forces are not considered to be Russian army (proper).

I made mention not long ago that Russian forces were said to be holding to the background and moving the separatists to the front for the real fighting.

Anyone with a Ukrainian wife should have known the above many weeks ago at the least. Mostly it is just semantics.

*Edited Russia for Ukraine (my bad)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 29, 2015, 03:59:46 PM
The link is somewhat correct. AT THIS MOMENT there is no proof of direct involvement with the Russian army (proper) in the D/L areas but there has been evidence of active duty military personnel in the fighting. You can also find this evidence in utube interrogations of Russian prisoners complete with military papers.

It is what it does not say that is important.

There is proof that some of the Russian army (proper) is within Russia. Mariupol was not mentioned as one of the locations where the Russian army was not fighting.
).


I made mention not long ago that Russian forces were said to be holding to the background and moving the separatists to the front for the real fighting.

Anyone with a Ukrainian wife should have known the above many weeks ago at the least. Mostly it is just semantics.

AT THIS MOMENT there is no proof of direct involvement with the Russian army
That is ridiculous comment-- there is volumes of 'proof"
Most importantly, contract and volunteer forces are not considered to be Russian army (proper
Equally ridiculous comment-- it is straight out of Putin and Kremlin lying playbook-- saying they are not regular does not make it a fact. Perhaps you could explain how regular Russian army and special forces are getting killed in Ukraine? Who do you think are operating tanks,artillery,etc-- guys they just employed?
In case you missed it-- many links have been posted on this forum detailing how in fact the Russian Army regulars have been replacing the hired thugs and mercenaries in numerous areas across eastern Ukraine.
Trying to create shades of reinterpretation of the fact does not change the reality-- Putin and the Kremlin pump so much crap out in the hope to muddy the waters in the west-- and for home consumption.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on January 29, 2015, 04:05:43 PM
The link is somewhat correct. AT THIS MOMENT there is no proof of direct involvement with the Russian army (proper) in the D/L areas but there has been evidence of active duty military personnel in the fighting. You can also find this evidence in utube interrogations of Russian prisoners complete with military papers.

It is what it does not say that is important.

There is proof that some of the Russian army (proper) is within Russia. Mariupol was not mentioned as one of the locations where the Russian army was not fighting. Most importantly, contract and volunteer forces are not considered to be Russian army (proper).

I made mention not long ago that Russian forces were said to be holding to the background and moving the separatists to the front for the real fighting.

Anyone with a Ukrainian wife should have known the above many weeks ago at the least. Mostly it is just semantics.

Here is more about contract and volunteer Russian soldiers:

Quote
ST. PETERSBURG  — Russian army conscripts are being tricked or pressured into signing up to become contract soldiers, human rights groups say — and their relatives fear that once they turn professional, they run the risk of being secretly dispatched to fight in eastern Ukraine...

"We were told that we would be labeled traitors of the motherland and shot if war breaks out. That they would alter our military records so that we would never be able to get a job," the letter said. Another message, apparently concerning the same person, said that 10 other soldiers had signed contracts following the threats.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/conscripts-relatives-fear-they-ll-be-sent-to-ukraine-amid-alleged-coercion/515139.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 29, 2015, 04:21:47 PM
The link is somewhat correct. AT THIS MOMENT there is no proof of direct involvement with the Russian army (proper) in the D/L areas but there has been evidence of active duty military personnel in the fighting. You can also find this evidence in utube interrogations of Russian prisoners complete with military papers.

It is what it does not say that is important.

There is proof that some of the Russian army (proper) is within Russia. Mariupol was not mentioned as one of the locations where the Russian army was not fighting. Most importantly, contract and volunteer forces are not considered to be Russian army (proper).

I made mention not long ago that Russian forces were said to be holding to the background and moving the separatists to the front for the real fighting.

Anyone with a Ukrainian wife should have known the above many weeks ago at the least. Mostly it is just semantics.

Good Post Baglia -

I get where you're coming from.  Except that we'd expect that the Russian Army would be operational in Russia.   :P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 29, 2015, 04:43:13 PM
  No President of any country should be without protection



Ukraine's military didn't back Yanukovych up with protection. The corrupt cops did though. If our president stole trillions from Americans, I's expect our troops and police to back off when American citizens physically remove him from power. There's a reason I believe citizens have the right to own guns and those guns should be used when government abuses their power. In my opinion, Ukrainians were rather peaceful. If Americans experienced the same corrupt and dysfunctional government Ukrainians had, we'd be much more violent.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 29, 2015, 04:44:32 PM
Anyone with a Ukrainian wife should have known the above many weeks ago at the least. Mostly it is just semantics.

Whatever the semantics are Putinochio can only tell so many lies.  Now that mothers and families of the deceased will no longer even be able to give their sons a proper burial per the Orthodox religion I think that Hell is too good for Putin.  He's a monster and what he is doing and has done is bizarre and contemptable.  I doubt if he will ever face a tribunal like Milosovich but I hope at least his own people when they find out the depth of his depravity will put him away for good.  And that's only for what he's done to the sons of his own people.  Add to what he has done to Ukrainians and he is a bona fide war criminal.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 29, 2015, 06:05:49 PM

I don't get the argument here.  Do you think Obama would feel "at risk" if he had no protection?  If Yanu walked through Maiden without any protection his life wouldn't have been in jeopardy?    The dude was getting blamed for the sniper attacks.  His life was in jeopardy.


Are you serious?


We are taking about this hulking thug who fainted when he was hit with a raw egg.


Next you are going to say the egg contained fatal toxins.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 29, 2015, 06:07:19 PM
It was a mob take over.


I bet you would root for Nero while Rome burns, wouldn't ya?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 29, 2015, 06:12:11 PM

I don't get the argument here.  Do you think Obama would feel "at risk" if he had no protection?  If Yanu walked through Maiden without any protection his life wouldn't have been in jeopardy?    The dude was getting blamed for the sniper attacks.  His life was in jeopardy.


Actually, I really believe that Yanukonvict was fearing for his life and that's why he fled. Just ask Putler. Same exact thing.


That explain the double-speak, the Goebbels-type of indoctrination via the media, and the military aggression towards the country that can fatally infect Rossyia into a mob uprising.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 29, 2015, 06:14:13 PM

Yanukovych did, in fact, have protection.  His entourage was with him in Kharkiv, and many went with him to Russia.


You mean, those nice guys carrying the treasures from Yanukonvict's stolen mansion into waiting vans?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 29, 2015, 06:17:42 PM
OK, your considerations sound solid, I'm agree with your analysis.  Everybody has to fight for his share of market, and the price of oil must be regulated by supply and demand, not by cartels.
Does not matter what ruble will be worth, industrial production and GDP does. I give no numbers as I have no Crystall Ball and there are no proven methods to predict oil price.
Higher prices will be clear bonus for Russia, but its economics and resourses let her accomodate to any price. To be honest, we're all interested in  oil storage never ends and acceptable price of gas. World of Mad Max is not what I'd like  :)


Strange, I thought the KGB had mathematical models that calculated the probabilities with a range of one in ten thousand to one in a million.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 29, 2015, 06:19:05 PM

I bet you would root for Nero while Rome burns, wouldn't ya?

You've been rooting for Obama and America is close to burning, so what's the difference?  In fact when Ferguson, MO was burning and the Emperor was naked, did you have any complaints?  Hell no.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 29, 2015, 06:24:59 PM
AC,

You can't honestly compare America to Rome under Nero.  That demonstrates how far to the right you have progressed.  America is solid.  It is as stable a country as we have seen on this earth.  While there may be fluctuations, such are the ebb and flow of any society. 

I see no evidence that America is going down the rabbit hole.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 29, 2015, 06:30:25 PM
You've been rooting for Obama and America is close to burning, so what's the difference?  In fact when Ferguson, MO was burning and the Emperor was naked, did you have any complaints?  Hell no.


Because you were rooting for that nincompoop who was this guy's predecessor who "stole" over 8 TRILLION dollars in less than 3 years and the country did NOT fall apart. The main reason why the rest of the world think of Americans as morons.


As a matter of fact, we STILL possess the strongest muscle any country in this world envies thanks to the, oops, almost said it, President.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 29, 2015, 06:30:54 PM
AC,

You can't honestly compare America to Rome under Nero.  That demonstrates how far to the right you have progressed.  America is solid.  It is as stable a country as we have seen on this earth.  While there may be fluctuations, such are the ebb and flow of any society. 

I see no evidence that America is going down the rabbit hole.

Uhuh.  Right now, perhaps not.  However if you really are a Republican and if you really make honest financial projections, then you know that some real and almost radical changes need to be made to our budget.  I am not surprised though by your comment.  It's indicative of a population which is not really aware of possible dangers facing our economy.  What would happen to our economy if Iran gets their Nuke and starts a conflict in the ME while Putin simultaneously rolls a thousand tanks into Ukraine?  There are other scenarios as well.  Scenarios which will result in another 2008 or worse  (just my opinion any and all are welcome to disagree).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: bagalia on January 29, 2015, 06:31:56 PM
AT THIS MOMENT there is no proof of direct involvement with the Russian army
That is ridiculous comment-- there is volumes of 'proof"
Most importantly, contract and volunteer forces are not considered to be Russian army (proper
Equally ridiculous comment-- it is straight out of Putin and Kremlin lying playbook-- saying they are not regular does not make it a fact. Perhaps you could explain how regular Russian army and special forces are getting killed in Ukraine? Who do you think are operating tanks,artillery,etc-- guys they just employed?
In case you missed it-- many links have been posted on this forum detailing how in fact the Russian Army regulars have been replacing the hired thugs and mercenaries in numerous areas across eastern Ukraine.
Trying to create shades of reinterpretation of the fact does not change the reality-- Putin and the Kremlin pump so much crap out in the hope to muddy the waters in the west-- and for home consumption.

I suggest that you send an immediate, urgent email to the Chief of general staff of ARMED FORCES Colonel-General Viktor Muženko and point him in the direction of your proof.

I will make it simple for you with the easy Bing translation of what he said.

"To date, we have only the facts of participation of individual soldiers of the armed forces of RUSSIA, citizens of the RUSSIAN FEDERATION as part of the illegal armed formations in combat. Fighting with the regular Russian army units to date, we do not maintain. We have enough forces and means to inflict the final even defeat illegal armed formation, "he said.

Such idiots these generals are.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 29, 2015, 06:33:12 PM

Because you were rooting for that nincompoop who was this guy's predecessor who "stole" over 8 TRILLION dollars in less than 3 years and the country did NOT fall apart. The main reason why the rest of the world think of Americans as morons.


You truly are from a different planet pal.  The main reason the rest of the World thinks Americans are morons rests solely on the shoulders of Obama.  The world might have liked to criticize us under Bush Jr. but they respected us infinitely more.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 29, 2015, 06:33:34 PM
Uhuh.  Right now, perhaps not.  However if you really are a Republican and if you really make honest financial projections, then you know that some real and almost radical changes need to be made to our budget.  I am not surprised though by your comment.  It's indicative of a population which is not really aware of possible dangers facing our economy.  What would happen to our economy if Iran gets their Nuke and starts a conflict in the ME while Putin simultaneously rolls a thousand tanks into Ukraine?  There are other scenarios as well.  Scenarios which will result in another 2008 or worse  (just my opinion any and all are welcome to disagree).


Oh for heavens sake.


Please tell me right now, no google, how the deficit affects YOU directly.


Answer that in less than 2 minutes, I dare you. PAL
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 29, 2015, 06:38:06 PM
I'm waiting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 29, 2015, 06:39:31 PM

Oh for heavens sake.


Please tell me right now, no google, how the deficit affects YOU directly.


Answer that in less than 2 minutes, I dare you. PAL

Hint:  Don't reference Keynes. 

Interest rates, the lowest I have seen in my long life, would be even lower if that were possible.  So there, Mr. Liberal.   :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 29, 2015, 06:39:59 PM
I'm waiting.

Keep waiting.  Any attempt to educate you is clearly a waste of time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 29, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Keep waiting.  Any attempt to educate you is clearly a waste of time.


LMFAO


Couldn't get anything, eh?


I thought so. Just like most Russians in country, repeating the digested propaganda that sounds good to you.


Baa
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 29, 2015, 11:40:34 PM
I think this freedom report about sums it up.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/russia (http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/russia)

2015 SCORES
STATUS
Russia - Not Free
FREEDOM RATING - 6.0
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)

CIVIL LIBERTIES - 6
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)

POLITICAL RIGHTS - 6
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)
(FYI - Crimea is a 6.5 and 7 is the worst possible). The 6.5 is the same rating as Gaza and South Ossetia. Last year Russia was 5 and now moving down toward less freedom. Who would have thought that such things would happen when you have a dictator running the country...

Quotes from the report.

"Crimea, evaluated separately for the first time for Freedom in the World 2015, emerged with a dismal freedom rating of 6.5 on a 7-point scale and a Not Free status, reflecting repressive conditions in which residents—especially Tatars and others who opposed the forced annexation—were deprived of their political rights and civil liberties. "

"Plummeting oil prices also revealed the weaknesses of Vladimir Putin’s dictatorship. But Russia’s problems run deeper than a vulnerability to the energy market. Corruption, cronyism, and the absence of the rule of law have discouraged investment and economic diversification. Pervasive propaganda has virtually eliminated critical voices from policy debates. And the absence of checks on presidential power has led to disastrous foreign adventures and diplomatic blunders. "



/sarcasm on Looks like it was of great benefit for Crimea to be taken over by Russia with respect to freedom. /sarcasm off

2015 SCORES
STATUS
Ukraine- Partly Free
FREEDOM RATING - 3.0
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)

CIVIL LIBERTIES - 3
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)

POLITICAL RIGHTS - 3
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)

Last year Ukraine was a 4 and now moving up to a 3.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/ukraine (http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/ukraine)
Read the entire report here.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/01152015_FIW_2015_final.pdf (http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/01152015_FIW_2015_final.pdf)
It will of course be interesting to see how the Putin apologists explain this one away...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 30, 2015, 01:32:48 AM
I think this freedom report about sums it up.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/russia (http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/russia)

2015 SCORES
STATUS
Russia - Not Free
FREEDOM RATING - 6.0
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)


What! Not the full maximum 7 points?
What is the 1 point deduction for?
Freedom to eat as much dirt as your stomach desires?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 30, 2015, 06:56:10 AM
Better hoard some more Ikea furniture before your rubles become even more worthless!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ruble-slides-past-70-per-110142576.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 30, 2015, 08:02:19 AM
Taz I think in Russia's upside down world they consider the 7 to be the best score.  Ukraine has been getting worse, and Russia got better.  Who was it that said eating less is good for your health?  Might be true for some.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 30, 2015, 02:17:57 PM

Ukraine's military didn't back Yanukovych up with protection. The corrupt cops did though. If our president stole trillions from Americans, I's expect our troops and police to back off when American citizens physically remove him from power. There's a reason I believe citizens have the right to own guns and those guns should be used when government abuses their power. In my opinion, Ukrainians were rather peaceful. If Americans experienced the same corrupt and dysfunctional government Ukrainians had, we'd be much more violent.


What corrupt cops were protecting him?  I take it that is your opinion since I haven't read anything about corrupt cops helping him. Trillions?  Where did you pull that number from?

I think it's somewhat strange you and others feel Ukrainians are peaceful even after the Molotov cocktails and other damage they did.   The article I linked to earlier talked about guns being brought down from Lviv. 


Our cops are militarized these days.  Look at Ferguson, they did their best to shut it down quickly.  I'm not so sure we would get away with as much as you think.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2015, 03:12:19 PM

What corrupt cops were protecting him? 




From what I've gathered it was pretty clear that Yano was in real danger for his life when most of his security were gone.  He probably had to flee or he might have been beaten or killed.  That part of the whole saga seems clear.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 03:16:19 PM



From what I've gathered it was pretty clear that Yano was in real danger for his life when most of his security were gone.  He probably had to flee or he might have been beaten or killed.  That part of the whole saga seems clear.


Fathertime!   

I doubt that.  He wasn't killed when he was in Kharkiv.  No Ukrainian politician, no matter their views, died because of their actions on Euromaidan.  You are grasping at straws!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2015, 03:24:29 PM

I doubt that.  He wasn't killed when he was in Kharkiv.  No Ukrainian politician, no matter their views, died because of their actions on Euromaidan.  You are grasping at straws!


Since it wasn't you it is easy for you to SAY!


(http://delapruch.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/grasping-at-straws.jpg)



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 30, 2015, 03:26:31 PM



From what I've gathered it was pretty clear that Yano was in real danger for his life when most of his security were gone.  He probably had to flee or he might have been beaten or killed.  That part of the whole saga seems clear.


Fathertime!   


I'm sure all that security around Obama isn't needed either. haha
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 03:27:54 PM
The US is a far more violent society than is Ukraine, LFU.
 
Please name one Ukrainian politician killed by Euromaidan protesters, fathertime.  Because that is the test.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2015, 03:31:17 PM
The US is a far more violent society than is Ukraine, LFU.
 
Please name one Ukrainian politician killed by Euromaidan protesters, fathertime.  Because that is the test.


I don't agree that his life wasn't in danger when his security suddenly left him...if he didn't face danger why did he have any security at all?


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 03:32:47 PM
All world leaders have security.  That does not mean their lives are always in danger.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 30, 2015, 03:34:23 PM
All world leaders have security.  That does not mean their lives are always in danger.


No, Yanukovych had his withdrawn.  Whether or not you think he was in danger doesn't matter.   I can't imagine any President staying put without security.  Especially with those peaceful Ukrainians throwing around Molotov cocktails and trying to gain access to firearms.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2015, 03:35:34 PM
All world leaders have security.  That does not mean their lives are always in danger.


Not ALWAYS in danger...but at that moment in time...yeah he was in danger, and his security suddenly vanished...


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 03:36:56 PM
No, LFU, it does matter.  Because the statement made is his life was in danger, and as a result, he was forced to flee.  That is not, I believe, accurate.
 
BTW, here is another view-
Quote

They also found scores of documents detailing exactly how the Yanukovych presidency had operated: receipts for cash bribes, files on opposition journalists (http://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/437277559487594496/photo/1), and records of the president's private meetings. It seemed clear that Yanukovych left in a hurry: He made a botched attempt to destroy his files by throwing them into a nearby lake. Some of the materials were still floating at the surface; more of them were quickly uncovered by
volunteer divers. But security camera footage examined by the Kyiv Post shows that Yanukovych's exit was actually planned days in advance. "He even oversaw the operation himself in the hours ahead of his final departure late on Feb. 21," the Post writes. "Some videos show what appears to be a small arsenal of weapons being carried away, including at least three apparent automatic rifles fixed with scopes and more than two dozen other rifles, some in a glass case."

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116986/what-ousted-ukrainian-president-tried-hide-he-fled (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116986/what-ousted-ukrainian-president-tried-hide-he-fled)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 30, 2015, 03:45:44 PM
No, LFU, it does matter.  Because the statement made is his life was in danger, and as a result, he was forced to flee.  That is not, I believe, accurate.
 
BTW, here is another view-
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116986/what-ousted-ukrainian-president-tried-hide-he-fled (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116986/what-ousted-ukrainian-president-tried-hide-he-fled)


Nope, it doesn't matter if you believe he was in danger or not.  The fact that a President has his protection withdrawn should in itself be an alarm going off that something is not right.  Why you think it is ok for that to happen is beyond me.


He should have a planned exit!  I can't imagine any President not having planned exit strategies for when the crap hits the fan.  haha


Of course he left in a hurry.  I would have as well.  If he didn't think he was in danger he could have destroyed that evidence.  After all, everyone wasn't interested in killing him so he could have just sit tight and clean up some of that evidence that could be used against him later.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 03:45:54 PM
I also suggest you read the yankovych leaks site, which had access to all Yanukovych's personal documents (those he left behind during his hasty departure).  According to that, he had security when he fled to Russia.
 
http://yanukovychleaks.org/ (http://yanukovychleaks.org/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 03:47:07 PM

Nope, it doesn't matter if you believe he was in danger or not.  The fact that a President has his protection withdrawn should in itself be an alarm going off that something is not right.  Why you think it is ok for that to happen is beyond me.


He should have a planned exit!  I can't imagine any President not having planned exit strategies for when the crap hits the fan.  haha


Of course he left in a hurry.  I would have as well.  If he didn't think he was in danger he could have destroyed that evidence.  After all, everyone wasn't interested in killing him so why not site tight and clean up some of that evidence that could be used against him later?


Another note, you would think that if his life wasn't in jeopardy he would have stayed awhile and cleaned up all of that evidence.  He may not have been able to delete it all but he could have removed a sizeable portion.

But he didn't have his protection withdrawn.  Some in his entourage fled, so they were no longer around.  Some followed him, so he did, in fact, have security.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 30, 2015, 03:51:29 PM

But he didn't have his protection withdrawn.  Some in his entourage fled, so they were no longer around.  Some followed him, so he did, in fact, have security.


I will try to read that link later, Bo.  It isn't loading for me right now.


According to the article I posted they were withdrawn.


Quote
With the presidential administration building and also his home unguarded from the afternoon of Friday, Feb. 21, Mr. Yanukovych judged that it was time for him, too, to leave Kiev, at least for a few days, his associates said.[

“When they removed the guards around the presidential administration, he had to leave,” said Mr. Dobkin, who was serving at the time as governor of Kharkiv, an industrial eastern region in whose capital, Kharkiv, Mr. Yanukovych had decided to seek refuge on Friday evening.


What exactly do you mean by security?  His group of thugs or entourage?

If what you say is true, he could have stayed put and trashed the rest of his evidence.  Instead he took off with a lazy attempt of removing the evidence.  He obviously thought he was in danger.  It only makes sense.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 03:54:46 PM
Yes, he had his own private security, and those people were with him, and even went to Russia when he did.  So no, I do not believe his life was ever in danger.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 30, 2015, 04:04:18 PM
Yes, he had his own private security, and those people were with him, and even went to Russia when he did.  So no, I do not believe his life was ever in danger.


Do you know how many people were in the entourage that protected him?  I'm trying to understand what you think is adequate protection for a President.  I have a feeling it isn't the same as what I think or what most would think if that President was Obama.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 30, 2015, 04:15:36 PM
I was very happy that they didn't find PUMPS in his closet, like they did with Imelda Marcos. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 04:17:59 PM

Do you know how many people were in the entourage that protected him?  I'm trying to understand what you think is adequate protection for a President.  I have a feeling it isn't the same as what I think or what most would think if that President was Obama.

At least a dozen members fled with him, which I would imagine for any president (including Obama) would be adequate.
 
He left because he was facing impeachment, not because he believed his life was in danger.  I wonder if his mistress went with him?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 30, 2015, 04:22:00 PM
No, Bo,

She's living here in my guest room.  I'd be happy to unload her on any unsuspecting  MOB seeker. 

 :puke:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2015, 04:32:06 PM

At least a dozen members fled with him, which I would imagine for any president (including Obama) would be adequate.
[/quote


Perhaps you are joking, a dozen members is nothing...especially under the circumstances of angry mobs and the rest of the security leaving....



He left because he was facing impeachment, not because he believed his life was in danger.  I wonder if his mistress went with him?


This is not factual, this is opinion and who cares about his mistress, unless you are counting her as one of the security team? :D


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 04:36:58 PM
No, it is factual.  It is your opinion, nothing more.
 
1.  He had other security.  Lots of it.
2.  No politician, many of whom were just as in the thick of it as Yanukovych, was killed because of Maidan.  In fact Maidan activists made it clear that they wanted trials and a rule of law, not mob rule.
3.  Having a mistress, particularly one who is younger than his children, says something about Yanukovych's character.  I am free to ask any questions I wish.  Whether you like them or not.
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 30, 2015, 04:37:53 PM

At least a dozen members fled with him, which I would imagine for any president (including Obama) would be adequate.
 
He left because he was facing impeachment, not because he believed his life was in danger.  I wonder if his mistress went with him?


I have to disagree.  I don't think that would be close to enough to protect him at his domicile.  I wouldn't expect the entourage to be trained like the secret service is.  Maybe they are, but doubtful. 

I couldn't imagine only 12 people protecting the President.  We're talking 20 to 30 vehicles being used when Obama is on vacation.


I am sure he would have ran from impeachment.  I also think he had time before that would have happened.  Like I said, he could have burned a lot of evidence before he left if he didn't think he was in danger.  He was being blamed for sniper killings on top of being the most hated man in Ukraine.  I seriously don't know how anyone would think he wasn't in danger.


haha I think Yanukovych is a save himself first and then think about mistress later type of guy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 04:39:01 PM
Quote
haha I think Yanukovych is a save himself first, and then think about mistress
later type of guy.

On this we agree.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2015, 04:46:14 PM
No, it is factual.  It is your opinion, nothing more.
 



No, it isn't factual, it is your opinion...nothing more!



3.  Having a mistress, particularly one who is younger than his children, says something about Yanukovych's character.  I am free to ask any questions I wish.  Whether you like them or not.
 
 




Why would I 'dislike' like your "questions" about his mistress...I don't care...except it looks like a silly attempt to further smear and distract... Yes you are free to ask questions about his mistress...and I'm free to say, who cares? Now lets see a nice photo of the lady! 


Fathertime! 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on January 30, 2015, 04:47:37 PM
How on Earth should he fear impeachment by a gang of revolutionaries in an illegal coup? Probably because he knew this gang and their confused followers were the result of a US funded and planned regime change operation and that formal rules would probably not be followed. We all know of the 5 US billion spent, the leaked phone conversations between Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador in Kiev. But on here, the truth is of no value. Lies are however the gold standard. Opposition value only lies in perhaps somebody being pushed to investigate more than just the western propaganda machine. It's not difficult to understand why the west is trying sooooo hard to shut down Russia Today. Real folks have a tendency to eventually gravitate towards truths when they Discover the daily dose of propaganda doesn't add up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 04:48:25 PM
FT, I am free to have an opinion, as are you.  There is nothing which indicates your opinion is any more accurate than is mine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2015, 04:52:19 PM


I couldn't imagine only 12 people protecting the President.  We're talking 20 to 30 vehicles being used when Obama is on vacation.


 


If there were angry mobs near Obama there would probably 1000 security members setting up layers of perimeters.  I don't know how on earth Boethius can think 12 members could adequately protect....it is a ridiculous but interesting assertion.  His security vanishing had to be very troubling in and of itself...where did they go and why did they leave me NOW?  He had legit concerns at that point. 


Fathertime!     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 04:55:18 PM
How on Earth should he fear impeachment by a gang of revolutionaries in an illegal coup?
I will agree that the method of Yanukovych's removal was a coup.  However, even those in his own party voted for his impeachment, so I don't think you can sway it was illegal.
Quote
Probably because he knew this gang and their confused followers were the result
of a US funded and planned regime change operation and that formal rules would
probably not be followed. We all know of the 5 US billion spent

$5 billion over two decades, most of which went to fund think tanks, universities, and the creation of democratic institutions.  As much as US haters want to believe the US was behind Euromaidan, there is no proof they were, and, frankly, I doubt it quite highly.  If the US wanted a change on government in Ukraine, they would have done it at the Rada level, not at the presidential level.  There is proof of meetings between Yankovych and Putin about stopping the Euromaidan protests.  Why would Putin care???
Quote
the leaked phone conversations between Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador
in Kiev.
Which occurred when a new government was being formed.  It does not prove your allegation and frankly, Ukraine is not that important to the U.S.
Quote
But on here, the truth is of no value. Lies are however the gold standard.
So you know the whole truth?  Because from where I sit, what you post is grossly inaccurate.  I don't tend to believe in conspiracy theories.
Quote
Opposition value only lies in perhaps somebody being pushed to investigate more than just the western propaganda machine. It's not difficult to understand why the west is trying sooooo hard to shut down Russia Today. Real folks have a tendency to eventually gravitate towards truths when they Discover the daily dose of propaganda doesn't add up.
If you believe half of what RT posts, you are already lost.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2015, 04:55:44 PM

If there were angry mobs near Obama there would probably 1000 security members setting up layers of perimeters.  I don't know how on earth Boethius can think 12 members could adequately protect....it is a ridiculous but interesting assertion.  His security vanishing had to be very troubling in and of itself...where did they go and why did they leave me NOW?  He had legit concerns at that point. 
Fathertime!   
Ukraine is not the U.S.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2015, 04:56:54 PM
FT, I am free to have an opinion, as are you.  There is nothing which indicates your opinion is any more accurate than is mine.


Yes an OPINION is fine, but on reply #2342 you said it was FACT.  So if you are downgrading it back down to opinion, that I can accept, although I still think it is flawed.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 30, 2015, 05:15:42 PM
I will agree that the method of Yanukovych's removal was a coup.  However, even those in his own party voted for his impeachment, so I don't think you can sway it was illegal.
$5 billion over two decades, most of which went to fund think tanks, universities, and the creation of democratic institutions.  As much as US haters want to believe the US was behind Euromaidan, there is no proof they were, and, frankly, I doubt it quite highly. 


lol  So those that think the US had it's hands in the pie are haters now BO?  Sounds like a JayH comment. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 30, 2015, 05:27:15 PM
$5 billion over two decades, most of which went to fund think tanks, universities, and the creation of democratic institutions.  As much as US haters want to believe the US was behind Euromaidan, there is no proof they were, and, frankly, I doubt it quite highly.  If the US wanted a change on government in Ukraine, they would have done it at the Rada level, not at the presidential level.  There is proof of meetings between Yankovych and Putin about stopping the Euromaidan protests.  Why would Putin care???Which occurred when a new government was being formed.  It does not prove your allegation and frankly, Ukraine is not that important to the U.S.So you know the whole truth?  Because from where I sit, what you post is grossly inaccurate.  I don't tend to believe in conspiracy theories.If you believe half of what RT posts, you are already lost.

The part I bolded is the double-standard.  Russia feels they have a right to have a stooge in Ukraine who answers to them, but they claim that the USA should not have any influence over Ukraine.  What is key about that is the fact that it's Ukraine who wants our help.  They being a sovereign nation can ask for help and a relationship with whom they choose.

In regards to the 5 Billion in aid to Ukraine over two decades, how much did we also give to Russia over the same period of time?  Would be very interesting to know that.  Again, do as I say, not as I do.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on January 30, 2015, 05:37:00 PM
$5 billion over two decades, most of which went to fund think tanks, universities, and the creation of democratic institutions.

Ah, here you reveal Your naivitee (sorry, don't know how to formulate properly). Thos fine institutions you mentioned are exactly what Washington use to subvert and foment internal revolutions in a country where it's paymasters covet the Resources. That is precisely why Putin made these organizations register as Foreign entities a few years back. The west hypocritically of course yelled foul play. Only that this exact thing was done in the US decades earlier. But as we all know, different standards for different People, and no standards for the INDISPENSIBLE ones...(you know, the empire).

As much as US haters want to believe the US was behind Euromaidan, there is no proof they were, and, frankly, I doubt it quite highly.    It does not prove your allegation and frankly, Ukraine is not that important to the U.S

Say again? US haters? I don't hate the USA. I have met several Americans, and although they are a bit full of themselves at times, I genuinely like most of them and believe some qualities of the US culture could be adopted here in Europe, like being polite in person (obviously not online, hehe), saying "Yes, Sir" in shops and giving great service to customers, being supportive of someone trying to build something, agreeing it's okay to have some self-confidence... and so on.

But you Bo, make the same mistake (aren't you a Canadian now?) as many Americans make when someone criticize their policy, they equate their COUNTRY to their government!!!!!
I subscribe to a YouTube-channel where an American woman living in Norway makes these videos about life here compared to what she was used to from California. If she makes some Critical remarks I don't og ballistic because it's my country. That's stupid. If anything, I think she's too careful. Before making an insignificant criticism, she kinda apologize beforehand. No need as far as I'm concerned and if you think I'm hard on US politicians, you should hear what I have to say about the tiny lap-dogs in Oslo.


.So you know the whole truth?  Because from where I sit, what you post is grossly inaccurate.  I don't tend to believe in conspiracy theories.If you believe half of what RT posts, you are already lost.

No dear Bo, I don't know the Whole truth. Not even part of the Whole truth. But I do believe I know a lie when I see it. Especially about the Ukrainian situation in which I have read and watched countless of hours.

You don't believe in conspiracy theories Bo, really? As far as I understand you, you believe that the Russian government has conspired to invade the Donbass area of Ukraine and then lie about it to "the international" society.

Years back I believed in conspiracies like the government put plate-Reading cameras on police cars and had a Technology where they could search through brick walls With a camera. Stupid me. I forgot the government is all goood. Normal man is bad.

I will try to redeem myself Bo. It make take some time though, that brainwash soap is difficult to rinse off.....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 30, 2015, 05:38:55 PM
Trillions?  Where did you pull that number from?



Most people don't need an explanation but for those who do, I will explain. Yanu stole billions from the Ukrainian people. If an American Prez did the same thing, the Prez would have to steal trillions for Americans to feel the same pain in the pocketbook as Ukrainians have felt.


Our cops are militarized these days.  Look at Ferguson, they did their best to shut it down quickly.  I'm not so sure we would get away with as much as you think.



Our cops worse than their mafia cops? America must be a horrible place. ::)


In regards to the 5 Billion in aid to Ukraine over two decades, how much did we also give to Russia over the same period of time?  Would be very interesting to know that.  Again, do as I say, not as I do.



We paid Russia much more in hopes they'd behave and grow to be a productive partner in trade just as Germany and Japan has. Even during the crisis in Ukraine our government has bought overpriced Russian military hardware probably to get money into someone's hands to motivate them.


Russia plays the same games around the world. They got NGO's in Europe to get the public to pressure their governments to lift sanctions and they are currently courting Greece's new pro Russian government by offering Greece money to help with their economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 30, 2015, 05:40:52 PM
Ah, here you reveal Your naivitee (sorry, don't know how to formulate properly). Thos fine institutions you mentioned are exactly what Washington use to subvert and foment internal revolutions in a country where it's paymasters covet the Resources. That is precisely why Putin made these organizations register as Foreign entities a few years back. The west hypocritically of course yelled foul play. Only that this exact thing was done in the US decades earlier. But as we all know, different standards for different People, and no standards for the INDISPENSIBLE ones...(you know, the empire).


The amount you state was 5 Billion over two decades.  I can pretty much assure you that Russian NGO's etc. got a similar amount over a similar time period.  So why are you not protesting that?  You know why?  Because some Russian Oligarchs and cronies of Putin stole a lot of that money.  Down a rabbit hole.  And corruption and theft in Ukraine is just as bad.  Your narrative that some money which was most probably stolen by thieves is absurd and lacks any rational basis for claiming that the USA unduly influenced Ukraine. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Изумруд on January 30, 2015, 05:43:31 PM
It's not difficult to understand why the west is trying sooooo hard to shut down Russia Today. Real folks have a tendency to eventually gravitate towards truths when they Discover the daily dose of propaganda doesn't add up.

In regards to RT: that has to be one of the most wilfully uneducated posts I've seen on this forum; here is your truthful RT on phosphorous munitions in Slovyansk and the evidence of International Human Rights Watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzCcBbP1VjA

Quote
the Kremlin-controlled and pro-Kremlin media presented inaccurate evidence to
ground accusations that Ukrainian forces used white phosphorus munitions. The incident
reflected not only the Kremlin’s determination to discredit the Ukrainian government at all
costs, but also recognition that many countries consider use of white phosphorus weapon
worthy of condemnation. On June 11, 2014, LifeNews (a private pro-Kremlin Russian news
outlet) reported that pro-Russian insurgents claimed a village near the then-separatist
stronghold of Slovyansk had been attacked with white phosphorus weapons.18 The LifeNews
story included footage of a descending luminous substance. On June 12, Russia’s Permanent
Representative to the United Nations expressed outrage at the alleged use of white
phosphorus, which he described as a “prohibited” and “forbidden” weapon.19 Ukraine denied
using the weapon, and Human Rights Watch arms experts later concluded that the footage in
this particular attack did not depict white phosphorus or any other type of incendiary
weapon.

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/Incendiary%20Weapons_Recent%20Use%20and%20Growing%20Opposition_Nov2014_final.pdf
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 30, 2015, 05:49:11 PM
No dear Bo, I don't know the Whole truth. Not even part of the Whole truth. But I do believe I know a lie when I see it. Especially about the Ukrainian situation in which I have read and watched countless of hours.


You've gone on and on about alleged Nazi's in Kiev and in W. Ukraine so it's painfully obvious that you watch only RT and other such which is approved by your wife.

I challenge you to go and spend at least two weeks in Kiev and any other major Ukrainian city and look and see for yourself as well as meeting the real people who are suffering from Russia's illegal invasion.  Once you get out from under the Orwellian like propaganda and meet some real people you will see how dreadfully wrong you've been.  And make sure and take your wife with you so she can observe reality versus the lies and fantasy of RT.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on January 30, 2015, 05:51:44 PM

We paid Russia much more in hopes they'd behave and grow to be a productive partner in trade just as Germany and Japan has.

Hahaha, is it possible? Do you hear yourself as you type, or see the written result?
The US government has seen Russia as their enemy since befoe WW2. Where the fuck to you get the nerve to say the US pay ANYTHING just to enable another country to get up and ahead and be peaceful? Germany? Japan? Along wit hte UK, they are the biggest lap-dogs of the US. Don't feel proud, because it's not for you, it's for the plutocracy........
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 30, 2015, 05:52:09 PM

Most people don't need an explanation but for those who do, I will explain. Yanu stole billions from the Ukrainian people. If an American Prez did the same thing, the Prez would have to steal trillions for Americans to feel the same pain in the pocketbook as Ukrainians have felt.



haha  No, when it comes to your logic, I think it's best you just go and try to explain yourself.  We just print more money, Billy, and the pain goes away.  ;) 


Quote
Our cops worse than their mafia cops? America must be a horrible place. ::)


This guy doesn't seem to happy to be confronted by "police".


(http://www.thenation.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/main_node_view_image/ferguson_ap_img_1.jpg)




Just another day looking for speeders.


(http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/gty_police_ferguson_weapon_jc_140814_4x3_992.jpg)




These are a rioters and looters.


(http://cdn-media.extratv.com/2014/11/25/459554484-480x360.jpg)




These are freedom fighters.


(http://stateofthenation2012.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/000_ts-par7798169.jpg)




These are mafia cops.


(http://img.rt.com/files/opinionpost/31/9f/70/00/ukraine-maidan-protest-destroyed.si.jpg)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 30, 2015, 05:59:28 PM
Hahaha, is it possible? Do you hear yourself as you type, or see the written result?
The US government has seen Russia as their enemy since befoe WW2. Where the fuck to you get the nerve to say the US pay ANYTHING just to enable another country to get up and ahead and be peaceful? Germany? Japan? Along wit hte UK, they are the biggest lap-dogs of the US. Don't feel proud, because it's not for you, it's for the plutocracy........

Oh yes, the lap dog theory.  Nobody wants to be lap dogs, now do they?  What you are really saying is that Russians don't want to be law abiding members of the World community and respect their neighbors, and the sovereign boundaries of their neighbors country.  No the Russian people would much rather be lap dogs to a criminal thug like Putin, then be responsible citizens of the World.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on January 30, 2015, 06:06:47 PM
You've gone on and on about alleged Nazi's in Kiev and in W. Ukraine so it's painfully obvious that you watch only RT and other such which is approved by your wife.

I challenge you to go and spend at least two weeks in Kiev and any other major Ukrainian city and look and see for yourself as well as meeting the real people who are suffering from Russia's illegal invasion.  Once you get out from under the Orwellian like propaganda and meet some real people you will see how dreadfully wrong you've been.  And make sure and take your wife with you so she can observe reality versus the lies and fantasy of RT.

I watch only RT? I'm sorry to say this, but you sound like an idiot to me. Actually, I watch very little RT because the TV upstairs is occupied by the little one. However, I read the national newspapers every day, as well as national TV, and it's all covering EVERY DAY statements from Ukrainian officials how many 1000's Russians invaded today. By now it should be millions of Russian soldiers there in Donbass, but somewhat those American satelittes don't work, so we unfortunately can't see any of the massive troop movements.

Then you finish by giving me advice, ha. Let me give you a piece of advice. Oh, it must be so macho for you tough Americans to sit a continent away and talk about war. But what if you were sent to the Donbass area to fight, alongside Your nazi buddies? And then if you were captured by the ones fighting for their own self-existance? What do you think they would do to Your fat American ass then? Kiss it?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 30, 2015, 06:14:19 PM
Where the fuck to you get the nerve to say the US pay ANYTHING just to enable another country to get up and ahead and be peaceful?




America paid billions to help reduce Russia's WMD(Weapons of mass destruction)  over 20+ years to make the world a safer place. We even took some off their hands to be destroyed in America. Putin rejected to continue to receive money and stay in that plan past 2012. He must've figured that he's going to need lots of WMD to accomplish his goals. I'm not going to spend too much time educating you on other areas we financially help Russia but Google is your friend.


"The Department of Defense Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) Program, also known as the Nunn-Lugar Program, was created for the purpose of securing and dismantling weapons of mass destruction and their associated infrastructure in the former states of the Soviet Union. Founded by Senators Sam Nunn (D-GA) and Richard Lugar (R-IN) through the passage of the Soviet Threat Reduction Act in November 1991, the program aimed to address the large nuclear arsenals inherited by former Soviet states Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan after the Soviet Union’s collapse."


Clickity Here (http://armscontrolcenter.org/publications/factsheets/fact_sheet_the_cooperative_threat_reduction_program/)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 30, 2015, 06:19:39 PM
I watch only RT? I'm sorry to say this, but you sound like an idiot to me. Actually, I watch very little RT because the TV upstairs is occupied by the little one. However, I read the national newspapers every day, as well as national TV, and it's all covering EVERY DAY statements from Ukrainian officials how many 1000's Russians invaded today. By now it should be millions of Russian soldiers there in Donbass, but somewhat those American satelittes don't work, so we unfortunately can't see any of the massive troop movements.

Then you finish by giving me advice, ha. Let me give you a piece of advice. Oh, it must be so macho for you tough Americans to sit a continent away and talk about war. But what if you were sent to the Donbass area to fight, alongside Your nazi buddies? And then if you were captured by the ones fighting for their own self-existance? What do you think they would do to Your fat American ass then? Kiss it?

More idiotic droning about alleged Nazi's in Ukraine.  The only ones are the Russian Nazi's and skinheads gone to war in Ukraine against "ukrops" their derogatory term for Ukrainians.  In fact it's well documented how Russia has a very real problem with racist skinheads and others who drag their country down. 

On the other hand Poroshenko is Jewish, and Jews are welcome and safe in Ukraine.  The largest Jewish center in the World is in Dnepropetrovsk.  Have you ever been there?  Oh that's right, you just like to spew lies from your recliner.

Other then that you clearly have a comprehension problem.  I did not tell you to go and fight in Donbas, I told you to go and visit in Kiev or any other real Ukrainian city.  You won't do it, because you are too comfortable spewing nonsense here then to go and see how wrong you are.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 30, 2015, 06:31:47 PM
Still falling and likely to keep going-

1.00 USD   =   69.5850 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 69.5850 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0143709 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-01-31 01:25 UTC

An interesting-- but desperate move --
Russian central bank makes surprise interest rate cut
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's central bank unexpectedly cut its main interest rate on Friday as fears of recession mount in the country following the fall in global oil prices and Western sanctions over the Ukraine crisis.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-central-bank-makes-surprise-104347116.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 30, 2015, 06:50:14 PM
Still falling and likely to keep going-

1.00 USD   =   69.5850 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 69.5850 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0143709 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-01-31 01:25 UTC

An interesting-- but desperate move --
Russian central bank makes surprise interest rate cut
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's central bank unexpectedly cut its main interest rate on Friday as fears of recession mount in the country following the fall in global oil prices and Western sanctions over the Ukraine crisis.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-central-bank-makes-surprise-104347116.html (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-central-bank-makes-surprise-104347116.html)


You 'forgot' to mention the oil price...but let me help you with that one!  It was up 7.5% today to $47.85. 


Your welcome!  :D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on January 30, 2015, 07:09:51 PM

America paid billions to help reduce Russia's WMD(Weapons of mass destruction)  over 20+ years to make the world a safer place.

You (and millions more) misunderstood. It was to Ensure the rulers in Washington were to be the ONLY rulers of the world. Easy to misunderstand, I know....


We even took some off their hands to be destroyed in America. Putin rejected to continue to receive money and stay in that plan past 2012. He must've figured that he's going to need lots of WMD to accomplish his goals. I'm not going to spend too much time educating you on other areas we financially help Russia but Google is your friend.

Hehe, I'm glad you value my time so much. I guess from Your vantage point you're in the thick of it, deep inside The Empire, whereas I'm just a digital print of one of the smallest lap-dogs of the EMPIRE. 

Listen Billy, and you're far from the worst, but the lies Americans and other westerners print online, is going to bite us real bad in the future....

Clickity Here (http://armscontrolcenter.org/publications/factsheets/fact_sheet_the_cooperative_threat_reduction_program/)
[/quote]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on January 30, 2015, 07:15:27 PM
More idiotic droning about alleged Nazi's in Ukraine.  The only ones are the Russian Nazi's and skinheads gone to war in Ukraine against "ukrops" their derogatory term for Ukrainians.  In fact it's well documented how Russia has a very real problem with racist skinheads and others who drag their country down. 

On the other hand Poroshenko is Jewish, and Jews are welcome and safe in Ukraine.  The largest Jewish center in the World is in Dnepropetrovsk.  Have you ever been there?  Oh that's right, you just like to spew lies from your recliner.

Other then that you clearly have a comprehension problem.  I did not tell you to go and fight in Donbas, I told you to go and visit in Kiev or any other real Ukrainian city.  You won't do it, because you are too comfortable spewing nonsense here then to go and see how wrong you are.

Funny thing.

I always thought the Jewish center of the world was Israel.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 30, 2015, 07:24:30 PM
You (and millions more) misunderstood. It was to Ensure the rulers in Washington were to be the ONLY rulers of the world. Easy to misunderstand, I know....





And we got away with it. That's why you are so pissed.


Heh, heh, heh
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 30, 2015, 08:38:42 PM
Funny thing.

I always thought the Jewish center of the world was Israel.

That may be so, however I don't mean literally.  That said I appreciate your comment.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 31, 2015, 06:48:55 AM
It would be interesting to see how all of this is affecting the ability for an average Russian to get a visa to the US (or any other country). For Ukrainians it might be easier. I have two thoughts on this though as the US may make it more difficult for Ukrainians as well to get a visa because they might think they are a greater risk to stay now and become like a refugee.


OTOH they may make it easier just to say screw you Russia(ns). My in-laws recently applied for visas in Ukraine. They were asked if they were Russian or Ukrainian at the interview. They both received 10 year multi-entry visas to the US. So my limited subset of empirical evidence points to "easier for Ukrainians" now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 31, 2015, 07:03:20 AM
Taz, I was just thinking about that. The Moscow Times had a recent article on Russia's consideration of new requirements for visas. Those are proposed to include very detailed questions about one's relatives and contacts inside Russia, and where one will travel, and why. If passed, and they likely will, this will represent a large roll back on the ease of visas put together during the Medvedev administration and then cleared soon after Mr. Putin returned to office.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Изумруд on January 31, 2015, 09:44:59 AM
Some photos of Pavel Gubarev, former leader of the DPR.  So just who are the real Nazis?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 31, 2015, 11:18:35 AM
Ah, here you reveal Your naivitee (sorry, don't know how to formulate properly). Thos fine institutions you mentioned are exactly what Washington use to subvert and foment internal revolutions in a country where it's paymasters covet the Resources. That is precisely why Putin made these organizations register as Foreign entities a few years back. The west hypocritically of course yelled foul play. Only that this exact thing was done in the US decades earlier. But as we all know, different standards for different People, and no standards for the INDISPENSIBLE ones...(you know, the empire).


No, those institutions in Ukraine are "homegrown", with the expertise of advisors.  The Razumkov organization - http://www.razumkov.org.ua/eng/index.php is one such example.  The Mohyla Academy, now the preeminent academic institution in the country, is another.  Yup, part of "empire building".


Putin banned some NGO's, including the LDS Church.  We can't have people come to God in the way they desire, after all, nor have the Church do such nefarious things such as furnish a classroom in the boonies.

Quote
But you Bo, make the same mistake (aren't you a Canadian now?) as many Americans make when someone criticize their policy, they equate their COUNTRY to their government!!!!!


Yes, I am Canadian.  Thanks for remembering. :)   But many here do equate the country and government.

Quote
No dear Bo, I don't know the Whole truth. Not even part of the Whole truth. But I do believe I know a lie when I see it. Especially about the Ukrainian situation in which I have read and watched countless of hours.


You have already come to the Ukrainian situation with your mind made up.  I did not support the removal of Yanukovych, I didn't believe he had stolen hundreds of millions, but now I know this is true. 

Quote
You don't believe in conspiracy theories Bo, really? As far as I understand you, you believe that the Russian government has conspired to invade the Donbass area of Ukraine and then lie about it to "the international" society.


They did foment invasion, and have been lying about it.  No conspiracy theory there.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 31, 2015, 11:43:39 AM
This is for Natural -


http://ukrainianweek.com/Society/128451
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 31, 2015, 11:55:44 AM
LMFAO


You think he would read that?


If he is caught even peeking at it I bet he will be in the dog house for a very long time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 31, 2015, 12:12:15 PM
Well, we'll see. :)


But I do have a question for Natural  - can you please name (by name) the "nazis" in Ukraine's government, and the policies they espouse which make them nazis?


I asked Shadow to name the nazis in Ukraine's government as well a few weeks ago.  I'm still waiting for that post to be answered, though he did say he would need some time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 31, 2015, 12:17:12 PM
Well, we'll see. :)


But I do have a question for Natural  - can you please name (by name) the "nazis" in Ukraine's government, and the policies they espouse which make them nazis?


I asked Shadow to name the nazis in Ukraine's government as well a few weeks ago.  I'm still waiting for that post to be answered, though he did say he would need some time.


Yep


There are some members here that when confronted to supply you with their "facts" they just hide.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 31, 2015, 01:57:16 PM
This is for Natural -


http://ukrainianweek.com/Society/128451 (http://ukrainianweek.com/Society/128451)


So RT is just a propaganda rag but Ukraine weekly is the peak of integrity?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 31, 2015, 02:09:43 PM
Yes.  If you read Ukrainian Week consistently, you would note there are often articles critical of Ukraine - of its oligarchs, of political failures, of economic failures. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 31, 2015, 02:48:27 PM
Yes.  If you read Ukrainian Week consistently, you would note there are often articles critical of Ukraine - of its oligarchs, of political failures, of economic failures.


Sounds like proof positive to me.    :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 31, 2015, 02:54:14 PM
Well, I am not here to convince you.  You can continue to believe the lies you are fed from your Russian sources.


PS- Yanukovych was the best thing to happen to Ukraine since independence, Eastern Ukraine is all waiting to be rescued by their Russian brethren, and the fascists in Kyiv should all be hanged at noon.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 31, 2015, 04:22:29 PM
Well, I am not here to convince you.  You can continue to believe the lies you are fed from your Russian sources.


PS- Yanukovych was the best thing to happen to Ukraine since independence, Eastern Ukraine is all waiting to be rescued by their Russian brethren, and the fascists in Kyiv should all be hanged at noon.


Oh your propaganda source is MUCH better than mine. I just want you to see the irony in what you are saying.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on January 31, 2015, 07:29:39 PM
Yes.  If you read Ukrainian Week consistently, you would note there are often articles critical of Ukraine - of its oligarchs, of political failures, of economic failures.



That is far more accurate than you might believe. Almost any Russian news source critical of Putin is shut down. There is much more freedom of press in Ukraine. Also see where I posted about the overall freedom index of countries.


Russia is in 5th place on number of journalists killed since 1992. It is pretty much smack in the middle with many other 3rd world countries. Amazing how many Russian journalists critical of Putin commit suicide while on vacation. So I think it would be pretty safe to say that nut much press is going to be critical of Putin.


Here is a quote by the Guardian in 2012


"Preston concludes - He is elected time and again. Yet a free press seems to mean pitifully little to him. You investigate? You report? You die, unavenged."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 31, 2015, 08:41:54 PM

Oh your propaganda source is MUCH better than mine. I just want you to see the irony in what you are saying.


Prove that anything posted at Ukrainian Week is inaccurate.  I can prove that numerous stories on RT are lies.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on January 31, 2015, 08:45:41 PM

So RT is just a propaganda rag but Ukraine weekly is the peak of integrity?

That sums it up pretty well.  But if you can't figure it out then you aren't very bright are you?  It's been posted so many times one would think it would sink in, but please tell us yourself, why is it that so many journalists critical of V. Putin end up dead or in a coma?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 31, 2015, 09:16:42 PM
Interview with a rebel.  Note his hometown.


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/rebels-suffer-heavy-losses-battle-ukraines-debaltseve-n296841
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 31, 2015, 10:17:26 PM
That sums it up pretty well.  But if you can't figure it out then you aren't very bright are you?  It's been posted so many times one would think it would sink in, but please tell us yourself, why is it that so many journalists critical of V. Putin end up dead or in a coma?


Because they're clumsy and keep walking in front of bullets and bombs, sheesh.
Talk about not being too bright.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on January 31, 2015, 11:06:27 PM

Prove that anything posted at Ukrainian Week is inaccurate.  I can prove that numerous stories on RT are lies.


Big Whoop. So can I.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 01, 2015, 07:54:29 AM
Funny thing.
I always thought the Jewish center of the world was Israel.
More Jewish in US than Israel.
1 million of Israel Jews (20%) are Russians claiming to be Jewish.
Interesting that there are only 200,000 Russians in Russia claiming to be Jewish.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 01, 2015, 10:57:41 AM
Ukraine had a much larger Jewish population than did Russia, and most Israeli Jews came from Ukraine, not Russia.


Meanwhile, Putin is upping the ante on provocations with the West.   


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/555454/Intercepted-Russian-bomber-was-carrying-a-nuclear-missile-over-the-Channel
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 01, 2015, 12:35:46 PM

Oh your propaganda source is MUCH better than mine. I just want you to see the irony in what you are saying.


Enjoy your reading.


How Putin Secretly Conquered Russia's Social Media Over the Past 3 Years




http://globalvoicesonline.org/2015/01/30/how-putin-secretly-conquered-russias-social-media-over-the-past-3-years/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 01, 2015, 02:11:42 PM


"The system works like this: trolls flood a comments section with scripted complaints against the West or the liberal opposition, and the state-run media then reports these comments as “bloggers’ outrage,” fueling further conversations online, building what becomes an organic/artificial mix. In this way, Putin’s team is able to impose its agenda even on the Russian Internet’s liberal ghetto."



Oh deary me, what will we do?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 01, 2015, 06:55:51 PM
Propaganda is certainly annoying, however what will Putler do if the Ukrainians are adequately armed to defend themselves?  It turns out that the Obama administration is taking a fresh look at that. 


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-taking-a-fresh-look-at-arming-ukraine%e2%80%99s-forces-officials-say/ar-AA8S85V?ocid=iehp
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on February 01, 2015, 10:00:14 PM
Interview with a rebel.  Note his hometown.


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/rebels-suffer-heavy-losses-battle-ukraines-debaltseve-n296841

NOT a rebel. He's a criminal moskali invader!  :exploding:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 01, 2015, 11:49:14 PM
NOT a rebel. He's a criminal moskali invader!  :exploding:

 Employed and supported by Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 02, 2015, 01:58:08 AM
And still it goes down down down & down.
We should have a competition to see who can predict where it will stop falling (ie the ultimate low point in Putin and his Kremlin kleptocrats  achieve)
Some time ago-- when it was laughably suggested that Putin would hit 63 this year along  the oil and rubble price  at 63-- now all well past that point--only leaves Putin to get to 63 !!
I nominated Oil price much lower than so far-- and rubble at 126( a multiple of 63)-- so far worse than even now.At the time I was joking-- but now-- maybe it is  possible.
1.00 USD   =   70.3579 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 70.3579 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0142130 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-02-02 08:50 UTC
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 02, 2015, 04:17:27 PM
Yep... Keep the sheep population drunk and compliant.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/02/02/russias-economy-is-so-bad-it-has-cut-vodka-prices/

Must be the crowning achievement of mongoloid Putin's social policy to make hard liquor that affordable to even the poorest segment of the population.

The midget better start building more clinics for liver cirrhosis treatment.  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on February 02, 2015, 04:21:29 PM
Sleepycat,

I had posted a couple of months ago whereby the Duma was now allowing advertising again for alcohol.  It was a Moscow Times article, but cannot retrieve it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 02, 2015, 06:34:02 PM
And still it goes down down down & down.
We should have a competition to see who can predict where it will stop falling (ie the ultimate low point in Putin and his Kremlin kleptocrats  achieve)
Some time ago-- when it was laughably suggested that Putin would hit 63 this year along  the oil and rubble price  at 63-- now all well past that point--only leaves Putin to get to 63 !!
I nominated Oil price much lower than so far-- and rubble at 126( a multiple of 63)-- so far worse than even now.At the time I was joking-- but now-- maybe it is  possible.
1.00 USD   =   70.3579 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 70.3579 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0142130 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2015-02-02 08:50 UTC


Here is a little correction and addition to the daily chart. 


Oil:  at the moment UP again 50.06 although it is still trading:
Ruble:  68 to dollar


http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=clh15.nym (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=clh15.nym)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bruce lee on February 03, 2015, 12:41:15 AM
Yep... Keep the sheep population drunk and compliant.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/02/02/russias-economy-is-so-bad-it-has-cut-vodka-prices/

Must be the crowning achievement of mongoloid Putin's social policy to make hard liquor that affordable to even the poorest segment of the population.

The midget better start building more clinics for liver cirrhosis treatment.  :cluebat:
Question out of curiosity really – does your contribution to FSUW forums extend any further than these frankly immature statements? Fair enough the subject matter has got your nose out of joint, but personally I don’t find the misfortune of others amusing, nor should any functioning adult!

From an adult perspective I don’t find any part of the conflict in Ukraine or its wider implications a source of constant ridicule – the only group that suffers are the ordinary people on the street - hey, maybe I just missed the joke!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 03, 2015, 02:19:58 AM
Jone, this is not the same archived article in the MT, but appropriate to the topic now. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/top_stories/article/newsletter/515217.html?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on February 03, 2015, 07:16:48 AM
Question out of curiosity really – does your contribution to FSUW forums extend any further than these frankly immature statements? Fair enough the subject matter has got your nose out of joint, but personally I don’t find the misfortune of others amusing, nor should any functioning adult!

From an adult perspective I don’t find any part of the conflict in Ukraine or its wider implications a source of constant ridicule – the only group that suffers are the ordinary people on the street - hey, maybe I just missed the joke!

Bruce,

Glad to see you contributing again. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 04, 2015, 12:56:50 PM

Because they're clumsy and keep walking in front of bullets and bombs, sheesh.
Talk about not being too bright.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17859.50
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 04, 2015, 01:48:32 PM
Da Da Da
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 04, 2015, 02:39:16 PM
There’s only one thing that can save Russia’s economy, and it’s not Vladimir Putin.

In keeping with Mod3's new edict, read the reasons at,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/03/theres-only-one-thing-that-can-save-russias-economy-and-its-not-vladimir-putin/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 04, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Question out of curiosity really – does your contribution to FSUW forums extend any further than these frankly immature statements? Fair enough the subject matter has got your nose out of joint, but personally I don’t find the misfortune of others amusing, nor should any functioning adult!

From an adult perspective I don’t find any part of the conflict in Ukraine or its wider implications a source of constant ridicule – the only group that suffers are the ordinary people on the street - hey, maybe I just missed the joke!

Your concern for lives of the invaded move me.  Care to elaborate?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 05, 2015, 12:39:29 AM
Some facts and figures regarding the exodus from Russia...

Who is leaving Russia and who is entering says a lot

(http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/54d2d8f36bb3f79c78b37209/who-is-leaving-russia-and-who-is-entering-says-a-lot.jpg)

(http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/547c87616da811c94314ab29-1200-924/number%20of%20people%20who%20have%20left%20russia.png)

(http://static.businessinsider.com/image/54d262cc69bedd0e21a2f933-1200/image.jpg)

..."In total, if we exclude the Ukrainians who moved to Russia, a net 1 million foreigners left Russia in the second half of 2014, according to data from Federal Migration Service, which was posted on РБК."...

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/westerners-leaving-russia-2015-2#ixzz3Qr0pdMMP

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on February 05, 2015, 07:06:30 AM
Russia mow has more Ukrainians than Uzbekis.  I assume most of the recent influx of Ukrainians are refugees. 

The conflict in Ukraine could have been avoided if those Ukrainians who wanted to be part of Russia simply emigrated to Russia. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on February 05, 2015, 08:21:22 AM
Gator,

This has never been about Russian speaking Ukrainian nationals and you know it.  That was a silly statement and unexpected from you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 05, 2015, 08:31:08 AM
He didn't say anything about the language issue Jone..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on February 05, 2015, 08:37:37 AM
The entire conflict is about Russia feeling that its borders are threatened and about the failure of the Eurasian Customs Union.  No amount of Ukrainians migrating to Russia would have appeased Russian interests.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 05, 2015, 08:50:00 AM
True. And since they are refugees and homeless it'll just cost more.  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 05, 2015, 09:26:35 AM
The conflict in Ukraine could have been avoided if those Ukrainians who wanted to be part of Russia simply emigrated to Russia.



Putin prefers the land they are living on.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on February 05, 2015, 09:36:17 AM
..."In total, if we exclude the Ukrainians who moved to Russia, a net 1 million foreigners left Russia in the second half of 2014, according to data from Federal Migration Service, which was posted on РБК."...

It sounds a little strange when departing Uzbeks and Tadjiks are called as foreigners  :D

The conflict in Ukraine could have been avoided if those Ukrainians who wanted to be part of Russia simply emigrated to Russia. 

There is a second option to avoid the conflict. If those Ukrainians who wanted to be part of EU  simply emigrated to Germany and France.   Saying this I'd like to point that the reasons of conflict is much deeper than usually voiced at the forum. Just can't resist  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bruce lee on February 05, 2015, 09:40:01 AM
Your concern for lives of the invaded move me.  Care to elaborate?
As I’m familiar with your deranged and often incoherently rambled contributions to the FSUW forum World I have no desire to engage you as a normal – if the spirit of my post wasn’t clear to you than that’s your problem – I have no time to provide playgroup level explanations to the likes of you.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 05, 2015, 11:26:48 AM
It sounds a little strange when departing Uzbeks and Tadjiks are called as foreigners  :D

You may consider your quip amusing, however, this sentiment is reminiscent of the Russian attitude towards Georgia and Ukraine prior to Putin's invasions of those countries as well. So from where I stand your smiley doesn't invoke humor.

You do understand that Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan are now independent countries or has the Kremlin propaganda machine gone to work on them as well?

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 05, 2015, 12:02:52 PM
As I’m familiar with your deranged and often incoherently rambled contributions to the FSUW forum World I have no desire to engage you as a normal – if the spirit of my post wasn’t clear to you than that’s your problem – I have no time to provide playgroup level explanations to the likes of you.

Let me join Jone in praising your contributions
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 05, 2015, 03:13:52 PM

Putin prefers the land they are living on.

That's the key and also why it gets incredibly tiresome for the pro-Putin bunch to whine about the US invasion of Afghanistan, etc. which were never about the USA trying to steal lands from another country.  The purposes of the two countries are so diametrically opposed that I wonder why they even bother with this line of debate; but I'm more than happy to swat it down.

That said you would really think that the country with the largest land mass in the World, mostly undeveloped and with poor infrastructure would invest in itself instead of an arrogant 19th century attempt to build more Empire based on extreme nationalism.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 05, 2015, 03:22:30 PM
Russia mow has more Ukrainians than Uzbekis.  I assume most of the recent influx of Ukrainians are refugees. 

The conflict in Ukraine could have been avoided if those Ukrainians who wanted to be part of Russia simply emigrated to Russia.




(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/jean-luc-fk-russia_zpsdcb5575d.png)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 05, 2015, 03:25:57 PM
It sounds a little strange when departing Uzbeks and Tadjiks are called as foreigners  :D




How about that. All this time I thought Russians called them stupid, morons, idiots.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on February 07, 2015, 03:00:19 AM

How about that. All this time I thought Russians called them stupid, morons, idiots.

Tadjiks and Uzbeks in Moscow are like Mexicans in south states of US. Are you calling Mexicans stupid, morons, idiots?
Or you read too much Russian Nazi sources?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 07, 2015, 07:00:25 AM
Tadjiks and Uzbeks in Moscow are like Mexicans in south states of US. Are you calling Mexicans stupid, morons, idiots?
Or you read too much Russian Nazi sources?

Mexicans who legally emigrate to America are called Americans.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 07, 2015, 12:18:38 PM
Tadjiks and Uzbeks in Moscow are like Mexicans in south states of US. Are you calling Mexicans stupid, morons, idiots?
Or you read too much Russian Nazi sources?


Thanks for answering the question.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2015, 01:27:55 PM
America is waging war in Ukraine against Russia.
We have lost more than 6000 soldiers and 300 tanks.
What about the Americans?
 You wouldn't believe it, They haven't showed up there yet!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


- Беня, а шо там такое на Украине происходит?
- Россия с Америкой воюет.
- И шо, как там дела?
- Ну Россия потеряла таки тысячи военных, сотни танков.
- А у американцев шо?
- Таки не поверишь, они вообще на войну не явились.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on February 09, 2015, 01:33:38 PM
Supposedly the Russian rebels/terrorists used SU25 aircraft today to attack Ukrainian troops. I am sure they will magically find more, as well as more modern, aircraft somewhere...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 09, 2015, 01:38:17 PM
Supposedly the Russian rebels/terrorists used SU25 aircraft today to attack Ukrainian troops. I am sure they will magically find more, as well as more modern, aircraft somewhere...

And if accurate, that plane did not come from Russia, and was not flown by anyone from Russia.
 
Here is an excellent piece by Bernard-Henri Levi.
 
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/bernard-henri-levy-why-putin-is-a-danger-to-europe-380079.html (http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/bernard-henri-levy-why-putin-is-a-danger-to-europe-380079.html)
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on February 09, 2015, 01:53:59 PM

And if accurate, that plane did not come from Russia, and was not flown by anyone from Russia.
 
Here is an excellent piece by Bernard-Henri Levi.
 
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/bernard-henri-levy-why-putin-is-a-danger-to-europe-380079.html (http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/bernard-henri-levy-why-putin-is-a-danger-to-europe-380079.html)

Was this meant to be tongue in cheek?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 09, 2015, 01:57:31 PM
America is waging war in Ukraine against Russia.
We have lost more than 6000 soldiers and 300 tanks.
What about the Americans?
 You wouldn't believe it, They haven't showed up there yet!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


- Беня, а шо там такое на Украине происходит?
- Россия с Америкой воюет.
- И шо, как там дела?
- Ну Россия потеряла таки тысячи военных, сотни танков.
- А у американцев шо?
- Таки не поверишь, они вообще на войну не явились.


Pish posh
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on February 09, 2015, 02:01:45 PM
Here is how it will work (aircraft).


They supposedly dust off some Su25 in a museum somewhere. Somehow they can magically retrofit all new upgrades. Suddenly it becomes a Su27. Then somehow that SU27 is transformed into a SU35...


Supposedly there was one Su25 and oneL-29 (trainer) in Lugansk in a museum. To bring one of these operationally ready after sitting in a museum is almost impossible to do without MAJOR work and MAJOR support from Russia. I will follow this very closely. My formal education was as an aeronautical engineer from probably the best university in the world for this. In addition I have military combat experience as a pilot.


I am not some shmuck you can feed me a bunch of BS about this and I'll believe it. This is all total BS and only a ruse for the most gullible of idiots (or only those that want to believe this is possible) so that Russia can now be actively involved in being able to bomb civilians rather than just murder them with Grad rocket attacks.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 09, 2015, 02:11:42 PM
Was this meant to be tongue in cheek?

No.  ATO denies a plane has been involved against them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on February 09, 2015, 02:18:22 PM

 
Here is an excellent piece by Bernard-Henri Levi.
 
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/bernard-henri-levy-why-putin-is-a-danger-to-europe-380079.html (http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/bernard-henri-levy-why-putin-is-a-danger-to-europe-380079.html)

Good editorial. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on February 09, 2015, 02:22:59 PM
Here is how it will work (aircraft).


They supposedly dust off some Su25 in a museum somewhere. Somehow they can magically retrofit all new upgrades. Suddenly it becomes a Su27. Then somehow that SU27 is transformed into a SU35...


Supposedly there was one Su25 and oneL-29 (trainer) in Lugansk in a museum. To bring one of these operationally ready after sitting in a museum is almost impossible to do without MAJOR work and MAJOR support from Russia. I will follow this very closely. My formal education was as an aeronautical engineer from probably the best university in the world for this. In addition I have military combat experience as a pilot.


I am not some shmuck you can feed me a bunch of BS about this and I'll believe it. This is all total BS and only a ruse for the most gullible of idiots (or only those that want to believe this is possible) so that Russia can now be actively involved in being able to bomb civilians rather than just murder them with Grad rocket attacks.

Agree 100%

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 09, 2015, 02:43:57 PM

And if accurate, that plane did not come from Russia, and was not flown by anyone from Russia.
 
Here is an excellent piece by Bernard-Henri Levi.
 
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/bernard-henri-levy-why-putin-is-a-danger-to-europe-380079.html (http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/bernard-henri-levy-why-putin-is-a-danger-to-europe-380079.html)


I read the link.  I don't see the case made that Putin is a danger to Europe in the sense that the article was trying to convey.  It is important for Ukraine to try to convince others falsely that Russia is a threat to all of Europe.  If they can, they stand a better chance of other nations trying to step in and fight for them.  To this point they have failed.


  The evidence is bearing out that Russia will fight to protect it's interests in Ukraine...that is not a bluff...so whoever intervenes will be assured a fight and possibly a fight without limits.   


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 09, 2015, 02:55:31 PM
How about funding extremist European parties?  What's that got to do with Ukraine?  Or the idea that if one speaks Russian, one is Russian and needs "defending"  (false, BTW).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on February 09, 2015, 03:06:35 PM

I read the link. ....It is important for Ukraine to try to convince others falsely that Russia is a threat to all of Europe. 


Although the piece was published in the Kiev rag, please note the author is a noted French philosopher, a supporter of the European project, and in this piece critical of his own country.  From Wiki, "The Jerusalem Post named Lévy 45th on a list of the world's 50 most influential Jews." 

So you believe your opinion is better founded than that of this intellectual?   I advised you before to consider both the author and the substance of what you read.



Quote
  The evidence is bearing out that Russia will fight to protect it's interests in Ukraine...that is not a bluff...so whoever intervenes will be assured a fight and possibly a fight without limits. 
 

Quite possibly the Ukrainian conflict is merely Putin's tuneup for the big one.  Putin wants the world to know that he will never back down, so the world better back off and give the ferocious bear what the bear wants.   Chicken Littles of the world such as you will indeed run from Putin and hide.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 09, 2015, 03:53:00 PM
Here is how it will work (aircraft).


They supposedly dust off some Su25 in a museum somewhere. Somehow they can magically retrofit all new upgrades. Suddenly it becomes a Su27. Then somehow that SU27 is transformed into a SU35...


Supposedly there was one Su25 and oneL-29 (trainer) in Lugansk in a museum. To bring one of these operationally ready after sitting in a museum is almost impossible to do without MAJOR work and MAJOR support from Russia. I will follow this very closely. My formal education was as an aeronautical engineer from probably the best university in the world for this. In addition I have military combat experience as a pilot.


I am not some shmuck you can feed me a bunch of BS about this and I'll believe it. This is all total BS and only a ruse for the most gullible of idiots (or only those that want to believe this is possible) so that Russia can now be actively involved in being able to bomb civilians rather than just murder them with Grad rocket attacks.

No.  ATO denies a plane has been involved against them.

I quoted source here on forum over a week ago on this report-- and the denial.

My guess--planted report to explain the appearance of aircraft in due course.Suddenly-- a whole airforce will materialise!!
It is an obvious reason for Kyiv to be quick to discount the report.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 09, 2015, 03:56:33 PM

Quite possibly the Ukrainian conflict is merely Putin's tuneup for the big one.  Putin wants the world to know that he will never back down, so the world better back off and give the ferocious bear what the bear wants.   Chicken Littles of the world such as you will indeed run from Putin and hide.


Let's see here. In the same paragraph you called me chicken little AND you said this is possibly a tuneup for Putin's big one...sounds a little confused as usual!    :ROFL:


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 09, 2015, 05:16:38 PM
How Russian troops entered Donbas -
 
http://ukrainianweek.com/Society/128451 (http://ukrainianweek.com/Society/128451)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 09, 2015, 06:05:29 PM
Although the piece was published in the Kiev rag, please note the author is a noted French philosopher, a supporter of the European project, and in this piece critical of his own country.  From Wiki, "The Jerusalem Post named Lévy 45th on a list of the world's 50 most influential Jews." 

So you believe your opinion is better founded than that of this intellectual?   I advised you before to consider both the author and the substance of what you read.


 

Quite possibly the Ukrainian conflict is merely Putin's tuneup for the big one.  Putin wants the world to know that he will never back down, so the world better back off and give the ferocious bear what the bear wants.   Chicken Littles of the world such as you will indeed run from Putin and hide.

Antisemitism is OK on the forum now?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 09, 2015, 06:06:29 PM
Where is the anti-Semitism? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 09, 2015, 06:11:18 PM
Gator didn't dismiss the author based on his religion?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 09, 2015, 06:13:32 PM
No.  He thought the article was good, and pointed out that Bernard-Levi is considered one of the world's most influential Jewish intellectuals. 
 
Although he is Jewish, anytime I've heard Bernard-Levi speak, I've had the impression he considers himself French.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 09, 2015, 06:13:48 PM
Gator didn't dismiss the author based on his religion?


Step away from the keyboard.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 09, 2015, 06:14:16 PM
No.  He thought the article was good, and pointed out that Bernard-Levi is considered one of the world's most influential Jewish intellectuals. 
 
Although he is Jewish, anytime I've heard Bernard-Levi speak, I've had the impression he considers himself French.


Same here.  8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on February 09, 2015, 07:15:28 PM

Let's see here. In the same paragraph you called me chicken little AND you said this is possibly a tuneup for Putin's big one...sounds a little confused as usual!    :ROFL:


This is painful.  Yes, you are correct; I messed up.

It reads correctly if I had called you a chicken-hearted coward rather than Chicken Little. 

You feel better?  Now take your Gold Star and put it on the door to your fridge. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2015, 07:18:18 PM
 :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 09, 2015, 07:28:03 PM
This is painful.  Yes, you are correct; I messed up.

It reads correctly if I had called you a chicken-hearted coward rather than Chicken Little. 

You feel better?  Now take your Gold Star and put it on the door to your fridge.


Yes you did mess up!


I'm delighted to see that the old man is upset and name-calling yet again over a difference in opinion.  Now to the point, I continue to see no value in sending first  'defensive' weapons, then genuine 'offensive' weapons...then 'advisers' then troops into Ukraine and parts beyond....I see that as stupidity and not in our own best interests, or the world's. 
You may keep my gold star as a reminder of your many missteps.  :D




Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on February 09, 2015, 07:37:06 PM


You may keep my gold star as a reminder of your many missteps.  :D


Many?  Just one with you (but don't talk to my wife).  Yet, my one mistake is one more than you because you have never admitted to being wrong. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on February 09, 2015, 07:38:47 PM

Although he is Jewish, anytime I've heard Bernard-Levi speak, I've had the impression he considers himself French.

He should; he is French. 

I just now read more about Levi.  He defended two Catholic Popes being criticized by the Jewish community.  He does not shy away from danger.  He covered the brief war between Georgia and Russia, so he brings relevant knowledge to his analysis of the conflict in Ukraine.  After spending time in Libya, he was key in convincing the West and the UN to intervene to prevent a massacre.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on February 09, 2015, 07:40:06 PM
Antisemitism is OK on the forum now?

That's not me LT. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 09, 2015, 07:45:37 PM
Many?  Just one with you (but don't talk to my wife).  Yet, my one mistake is one more than you because you have never admitted to being wrong.
Yes many, or perhaps you have only made one mistake!   You just made another by saying I won't admit errors because[size=78%]I am not ashamed to admit mistakes, I've made plenty of them...although I don't routinely blow a gasket when somebody has a different viewpoint, like you often do.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Fathertime!   [/size]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 09, 2015, 09:41:11 PM
Yes many, or perhaps you have only made one mistake!   You just made another by saying I won't admit errors because[size=78%]I am not ashamed to admit mistakes, I've made plenty of them...although I don't routinely blow a gasket when somebody has a different viewpoint, like you often do.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Fathertime!   [/size]

Now that is funny FT.   :clapping: :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 10, 2015, 01:14:21 AM
A German security consultant wins against the Kremlin after a 20 year battle. 


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/world/europe/once-friendly-with-putin-german-goes-to-court-over-seized-assets.html?rref=world/europe&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Europe&pgtype=article
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 10, 2015, 01:32:45 PM
This is a really good chronicle of the war with a lot of details.  I hope everybody reads it and learns something from it; unless you know everything already.   ;)


http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/12/15/the-donbas-war-a-chronicle/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on February 10, 2015, 05:01:54 PM
This is a really good chronicle of the war with a lot of details.  I hope everybody reads it and learns something from it; unless you know everything already.   ;)


http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/12/15/the-donbas-war-a-chronicle/

Very interesting - it would be nice if they have done an updated version.  A lot has happened in the past two months.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 10, 2015, 07:11:28 PM
Bipartisan support in the US Congress for arming Ukraine.


http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2015/02/09/senators-push-for-military-aid-for-ukraine.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 10, 2015, 07:34:13 PM
Bipartisan support in the US Congress for arming Ukraine.


http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2015/02/09/senators-push-for-military-aid-for-ukraine.html

And Obama agrees with Merkel or haven't you heard . . . . ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 10:05:02 AM
More bad news for Russia.. on the home front.

Russian Capital Flight Deepens as Entrepreneurs Decamp to London   :crackwhip:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-capital-flight-deepens-as-entrepreneurs-decamp-to-london/515776.html

Russia's Economic Crisis Forces Secret Service FSB to Downsize  :rolleyes:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-s-economic-crisis-forces-secret-service-fsb-to-downsize/515756.html

Renault Mothballs Moscow Factory as Russian Car Sales Nosedive  :crackwhip:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/renault-mothballs-moscow-factory-as-russian-car-sales-nosedive/515741.html

There Will Be No World War, Russia Is Alone  :rolleyes:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/there-will-be-no-world-war-russia-is-alone/515773.html

State Building Contracts Inflated By Up to 40% — Audit Chamber
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/state-building-contracts-inflated-by-up-to-40-audit-chamber/515644.html

Sanctions Cause Leadership Crisis as Foreign Directors Ditch Russian Firms  :crackwhip:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/sanctions-cause-leadership-crisis-as-foreign-directors-ditch-russian-firms/510225.html

Ruble Falls Ahead of Minsk Peace Summit  :crackwhip: :crackwhip:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ruble-falls-ahead-of-ukraine-peace-summit-analysts-see-volatile-trading/515739.html


Medvedev Orders Stockpiles of Medicine as Russia's Ruble Slumps
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/medvedev-orders-stockpiles-of-medicine-as-russia-s-ruble-slumps/514114.html

Russia's Rosneft to Adjust Forex Accounting to Shield Profits From Weak Ruble
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-s-rosneft-to-adjust-forex-accounting-to-shield-profits-from-weak-ruble/515298.html



 But the good news is that all is well at home on Russia because Doll says so and she confirmed it by talking to herself. :D



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 10:42:54 AM
Even the Mexicans are enjoying a good sing along.  :clapping:

http://youtu.be/K29sJ3YXE0c (http://youtu.be/K29sJ3YXE0c)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 11, 2015, 12:05:31 PM
More bad news for Russia.. on the home front.

Russian Capital Flight Deepens as Entrepreneurs Decamp to London   :crackwhip:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-capital-flight-deepens-as-entrepreneurs-decamp-to-london/515776.html

Russia's Economic Crisis Forces Secret Service FSB to Downsize  :rolleyes:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-s-economic-crisis-forces-secret-service-fsb-to-downsize/515756.html

Renault Mothballs Moscow Factory as Russian Car Sales Nosedive  :crackwhip:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/renault-mothballs-moscow-factory-as-russian-car-sales-nosedive/515741.html

There Will Be No World War, Russia Is Alone  :rolleyes:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/there-will-be-no-world-war-russia-is-alone/515773.html

State Building Contracts Inflated By Up to 40% — Audit Chamber
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/state-building-contracts-inflated-by-up-to-40-audit-chamber/515644.html

Sanctions Cause Leadership Crisis as Foreign Directors Ditch Russian Firms  :crackwhip:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/sanctions-cause-leadership-crisis-as-foreign-directors-ditch-russian-firms/510225.html

Ruble Falls Ahead of Minsk Peace Summit  :crackwhip: :crackwhip:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ruble-falls-ahead-of-ukraine-peace-summit-analysts-see-volatile-trading/515739.html


Medvedev Orders Stockpiles of Medicine as Russia's Ruble Slumps
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/medvedev-orders-stockpiles-of-medicine-as-russia-s-ruble-slumps/514114.html

Russia's Rosneft to Adjust Forex Accounting to Shield Profits From Weak Ruble
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-s-rosneft-to-adjust-forex-accounting-to-shield-profits-from-weak-ruble/515298.html



 But the good news is that all is well at home on Russia because Doll says so and she confirmed it by talking to herself. :D

 :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


 :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 11, 2015, 02:25:24 PM
News coming thru--

Ukrainian Army  eliminated 87 insurgents and 42 military equipment, incl. 12 tank, 14 missile systems and 16 armoured vehicles


Meanwhile-- the Russians stay consistently untrustworthy--even to their own !!


Thriller "slope": We have 100-200 "two hundred". We do not know that already saw the graves


He said the terrorist leadership "FSC" does not fulfill its obligations to the militants.

http://espreso.tv/news/2015/02/11/boyovyk_quotkosorquot_u_nas_po_100_200_quotdvokhsotykhquot_my_ne_znayemo__scho_vzhe_pylyaty_na_hroby
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 02:34:32 PM
More promised broken even to their own terrorists!

 'Gee' we have no more money to pay you or support for the families of the dead terrorists.'

 They are going broke! Bankrupt!

 Stealing money from the pensioners accounts to pay the oligarchs and support the war.
 
Russia cannot afford to continue to deny the rest of the worlds wishes of peace.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 11, 2015, 02:48:43 PM
Russia cannot afford to continue to deny the rest of the worlds wishes of peace.


Do you mean the Pax Americana?


Don't be too sure.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 02:51:32 PM
So it's alright to use Nukes in a conventional war to make your point?  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 11, 2015, 03:01:47 PM
So it's alright to use Nukes in a conventional war to make your point?


No one is talking about nukes except you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 03:07:01 PM
Except me and Russia..

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on February 11, 2015, 03:19:06 PM
Russia has several times threatened to use nukes even in a non-nuclear based war. Just do a google search. Last year they threatened. Even lame Newsweek covered it if even a bit late. Putin just brought it up again this week.


http://www.newsweek.com/russia-has-threatened-nuclear-attack-says-ukraine-defence-minister-267842



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2015, 03:26:21 PM
Except me and Russia..


It may be a legit threat in this case as Russia is not likely to relent until a good deal is presented...Like it or not we got to be careful not to force escalations to that point, there has to be just the right balance of pressure to end it, without forcing escalation.  Talk is one thing (obligatory lip service), bringing in western weapons will inevitably bring in the western forces, and that will lead to massive casualties. IMO


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 11, 2015, 03:28:28 PM
Except me and Russia..


I'm not speaking to Russia, just you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 03:41:38 PM
You don't think that the threat of nukes is a legit topic? I'd say that Russia is escalating this invasion many fold by even the threat to the rest of the world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on February 11, 2015, 05:05:47 PM
Talk is one thing (obligatory lip service), bringing in western weapons will inevitably bring in the western forces, and that will lead to massive casualties. IMO

There have already been massive casualties, or had you not noticed?  Should Western forces be deployed, there will be more massive casualties on the Russian side, and Putin will no longer be able to weasel his way out of admitting that real Russian troops are partaking in the war.

I realise that Putin is not as internet-savvy as other Russian leaders (e.g. Medvedev), but surely SOMEBODY has told him that all his denials are for naught because of the stupidity of his "volunteers" declaiming their every move on Facebook, VK and Youtube?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 11, 2015, 05:23:15 PM
There have already been massive casualties, or had you not noticed?  Should Western forces be deployed, there will be more massive casualties on the Russian side, and Putin will no longer be able to weasel his way out of admitting that real Russian troops are partaking in the war.

I realise that Putin is not as internet-savvy as other Russian leaders (e.g. Medvedev), but surely SOMEBODY has told him that all his denials are for naught because of the stupidity of his "volunteers" declaiming their every move on Facebook, VK and Youtube?

AK--  if the west does support Ukraine with defensive weapons (+)   I would not care what Putin does.I hope he sends 50000 troops into Ukraine--the resultant massacre of Russian troops will be humiliating for Russia Putin & Kremlin cronies. If it takes that for the Russian people to wake up and recognise their responsibility in acquiescing Putins actions-  so be it-the sooner the better.

The loss of lives of decent Ukrainians has not bought any sympathy from Russia-- as Russia continues shelling civilian areas and premises-- then the cowards are hiding themselves in civilian areas to prevent the Ukrainians returning fire. No-- I want to see the message driven home to Russians-it seems that there is no other way.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 05:31:07 PM
I agree Jay.
 If and when this is settled there will be huge piles of dust from the cremations on the Russian side (similar to the ones at Dachau) and large graveyards on the Ukrainian side also.
 Russia will suffer for many years because few will forget what they've done.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 05:42:51 PM
How to Save Money during a War..  :cluebat:
  It makes you kind of teary eyed to know that the terrorists think so much of their own people.  :rolleyes:
Bury "volunteers" in the "LC" became heavier and more expensive


02.10.2015 17:22

Leaders "LC" have significantly reduced the amount of payments to the victims of family workers' militia. " Earlier in compensation promised by 5000 hryvnia, (200 USD) as well as - "a funeral package." Which included funeral services, cross and wreath at the expense of the "republic." Now, as told informator.lg.ua  informed source, the amount of cut up to 3,000 hryvnia (120 USD). And reduced the "package". "Now relatives of the deceased themselves take the body and bury it. The body that are not able to pick up, buried in a mass grave. And the place of residence of the deceased to the cemetery is a symbolic hill with a cross. Thus there is a saving on the coffins and other funeral accessories "-
http://informator.lg.ua/?p=68501#more-68501

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2015, 05:54:34 PM
AK--  if the west does support Ukraine with defensive weapons (+)   I would not care what Putin does.I hope he sends 50000 troops into Ukraine--the resultant massacre of Russian troops will be humiliating for Russia Putin & Kremlin cronies. If it takes that for the Russian people to wake up and recognise their responsibility in acquiescing Putins actions-  so be it-the sooner the better.



I really think you are delusional if you think this is going to happen without most of Ukraine being laid to waste.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2015, 06:01:53 PM
There have already been massive casualties, or had you not noticed?
Thus far in Syria there is around 250,000 dead....Iraq some estimates of over 1,000,000.....Ukraine 5,500 (according to recent news).  I'd say things can get a whole lot worse.  If 5500 is considered massive casualties, how do you categorize Syria/Iraq, etc etc.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: bagalia on February 11, 2015, 06:29:23 PM
Bunch of naive doves in Europe. There is always the possibility of a military win. Putin knows it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 11, 2015, 07:30:53 PM
That's not me LT.

I am sorry.  I was wrong.  Please accept my apology.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 11, 2015, 07:33:15 PM
Except me and Russia..

FT too & me.  Nice try patriot.  Tell us how you love America again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 07:38:08 PM
Is that directed at me?  :o
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 11, 2015, 07:41:21 PM
Steamer
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 07:51:55 PM
Then quote him not me.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on February 11, 2015, 09:58:50 PM
Thus far in Syria there is around 250,000 dead....Iraq some estimates of over 1,000,000.....Ukraine 5,500 (according to recent news).  I'd say things can get a whole lot worse.  If 5500 is considered massive casualties, how do you categorize Syria/Iraq, etc etc.

The scale of casualties in the Middle East is truly mind-boggling.  However, the big difference between there and Ukraine is that there have been wars/rebellions/uprisings/religious differences going on in the former for many years, which have taken a steady stream of victims.  Excluding Maidan, which doesn't really count as "war," there had not been any deaths as a result of military action in Ukraine until Putin decided to invade Crimea.  The devastation and death toll since then can be laid squarely at Putin's feet - he may not have pulled the trigger on anyone but, most assuredly, all the actions (and consequences) in the last year are a direct result of his imperialistic warmongering.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2015, 10:11:47 PM
The scale of casualties in the Middle East is truly mind-boggling.  However, the big difference between there and Ukraine is that there have been wars/rebellions/uprisings/religious differences going on in the former for many years, which have taken a steady stream of victims.  Excluding Maidan, which doesn't really count as "war," there had not been any deaths as a result of military action in Ukraine until Putin decided to invade Crimea.  The devastation and death toll since then can be laid squarely at Putin's feet - he may not have pulled the trigger on anyone but, most assuredly, all the actions (and consequences) in the last year are a direct result of his imperialistic warmongering.


Well then I guess we can agree that the number of deaths has been very low, in comparison to what it easily could be.  Around a year and 5,000 dead pales in comparison to Perhaps 3 years 250K.   


Of course I don't blame Russia solely for this, as this is a worldwide dispute that happens to be manifesting in Ukraine at the moment....but obviously that is a different topic that has been covered.   


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on February 11, 2015, 10:21:53 PM
Of course I don't blame Russia solely for this,

Why not? I do.

...this is a worldwide dispute that happens to be manifesting in Ukraine at the moment....but obviously that is a different topic that has been covered.

How can this be a "worldwide dispute?"  In case you haven't noticed, every other country in the world is taking your advice and keeping out of the conflict.  It must be wonderful to have every world leader take so much notice of your prognostications.  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 11, 2015, 10:23:35 PM
The death toll in Ukraine is over 15,000 . It may well be considerably higher.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2015, 10:26:20 PM
Possibly,,

50,000 casualties in Ukraine? German intel calls Kiev’s 6k toll ‘not credible’
http://rt.com/news/230363-ukraine-real-losses-german-intelligence/

 Except if you google it you'll see a few pages that refer back to each other without citing the "German Intel" source. And I'm not going to waste more time looking at Russian sources.

 Propaganda!  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2015, 10:32:38 PM
Why not? I do.

 


Because you remain ill-informed.



How can this be a "worldwide dispute?"  In case you haven't noticed, every other country in the world is taking your advice and keeping out of the conflict.  It must be wonderful to have every world leader take so much notice of your prognostications.  :cluebat:
Actually you are mistaken, many countries are involved through sanctions....and many others are not. 


Who said any worldwide leader is reading this?
I hold that it is an ongoing dispute between East and West as it pertains to worldwide resources, and the battlefield isn't just pertaining to guns and bombs...but I'm ok with your simplistic approach....although since I'm viewing it differently I'm going to reach different conclusions. :-*


Fathertime!     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2015, 10:35:41 PM
The major news sites are all saying under 6K.  I don't see any reason for them to work in collusion to artificially deflate the number of dead.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 11, 2015, 10:38:53 PM
That shows how truly clueless and lacking in comprehension -- you cannot even add up. :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2015, 10:48:08 PM
That shows how truly clueless and lacking in comprehension -- you cannot even add up. :cluebat:


I will take major news network numbers over numbers that YOU provide....and they all have been saying under 6000.  Back to 2nd grade if you can peel yourself off the recliner.   


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 11, 2015, 11:02:05 PM
I will break my decision to simply ignore your ignorance and ridiculous posts-- to point out how simple it is to illustrate your ignorance.
The Ukrainian military admit to approx 1500 dead-- there are also a considerable number unaccounted for. Ukrainian civilian deaths are acknowledged as close to 6000 -once again with this figure there are quite high numbers missing.The figure has also been estimated as being much higher. Add the Russian military ( &/or Russian mercenaries) from across the border at the figure of approx 6500 --
Now add the figures and that is approx 14,000 - As I said-- 15000 is more like the figure used in the media -- so you need to actually read what is posted here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2015, 11:16:26 PM
I will break my decision to simply ignore your ignorance and ridiculous posts-- to point out how simple it is to illustrate your ignorance.
The Ukrainian military admit to approx 1500 dead-- there are also a considerable number unaccounted for. Ukrainian civilian deaths are acknowledged as close to 6000 -once again with this figure there are quite high numbers missing.The figure has also been estimated as being much higher. Add the Russian military ( &/or Russian mercenaries) from across the border at the figure of approx 6500 --
Now add the figures and that is approx 14,000 - As I said-- 15000 is more like the figure used in the media -- so you need to actually read what is posted here.


Looks like a bunch of fuzzy math when all the major outlets are reporting under 6000 dead, and they usually like to make things worse then they really are...but "JayH News and Special Report" is reporting live that it is 14000. 


.
Unaccounted for, could easily be men abandoning their posts or switching sides...as there are reports that is fairly commonplace. 




When some of the main media outlets start reporting the number as 14000 then I'll probably believe it...meanwhile it sounds like more of your fantasy, like the 400 Russians killed in this battle, and the 550 killed in that battle..etc etc....now do I get the privilege of going back on ignore?    :D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 11, 2015, 11:46:18 PM

Because you remain ill-informed.


Aren't you the one that keeps getting schooled by Mendy on the subject of international politics?  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 12, 2015, 05:03:43 AM
Aren't you the one that keeps getting schooled by Mendy on the subject of international politics?  :crackwhip:

He denies a Russian invasion while the whole world says it is a Russian invasion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 12, 2015, 06:21:21 AM
I heard an interview today by Bill Browder, who ran the most successful investment fund in Russia.  When corrupt officials tried to take it over, his lawyer, Sergey Magnitsky, was killed, and eventually, faced trial posthumously.

Browder had good relations with Putin, but eventually alleged Putin is head of the world's largest criminal organization.  Browder takes extraordinary security precautions, as his life has been threatened numerous times.
 
Here are two good interview with Browder -

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2015/02/11/bill-browder-on-red-notice-death-threats-from-the-kremlin/ (http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2015/02/11/bill-browder-on-red-notice-death-threats-from-the-kremlin/)

http://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/j653nLra74lxu2imMCHYao7la8h8HOKK/american-s-fight-to-expose-corruption-in-russia/ (http://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/video/j653nLra74lxu2imMCHYao7la8h8HOKK/american-s-fight-to-expose-corruption-in-russia/)


and a few good overview of his story -

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/25/-sp-bill-browder-kremlin-threatened-to-kill-me-vladimir-putin (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/25/-sp-bill-browder-kremlin-threatened-to-kill-me-vladimir-putin)

http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/bill-browder-warning-against-investment-russia (http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/bill-browder-warning-against-investment-russia)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2015, 07:31:06 AM
He denies a Russian invasion while the whole world says it is a Russian invasion.


You are rather forgetful or confusing the different posters.  I'm not a Russian denier.  I think there are Russians involved. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on February 12, 2015, 05:46:29 PM
Of course I don't blame Russia solely for this,

Why not? I do.

Because you remain ill-informed.

How so?  At least you are prepared to admit this...

...I'm not a Russian denier.  I think there are Russians involved.

...but, on that basis, how can you come to any conclusion other than the Russians being responsible for the conflict?  It was the Russians who invaded Crimea on a completely bogus pretext - even their number one supporter on this forum, justme100, never EVER accused the Crimean authorities of any discrimination against her for being a Russian-speaking ethnic Russian!

It was the Russians who conducted a meaningless "referendum" which was the biggest crock of shit in modern history (4 million ballot papers printed for 2 million voters, and there are plenty of videos showing stacks of them already completed BEFORE the voting was opened; no option to keep the status quo; and a turnout of 114% (or was it 124%?) in Sevastopol), and who invaded the Crimean Parliament and forced a regime change in the middle of the night at the point of many guns, with the new leader being so popular in the previous real election that his support was less than the margin of error in any poll!


...this is a worldwide dispute that happens to be manifesting in Ukraine at the moment....but obviously that is a different topic that has been covered.

How can this be a "worldwide dispute?"  In case you haven't noticed, every other country in the world is taking your advice and keeping out of the conflict.  It must be wonderful to have every world leader take so much notice of your prognostications.  :cluebat:

Actually you are mistaken, many countries are involved through sanctions....and many others are not.

My apologies - perhaps I should have spelt it out that "conflict" here refers to the actual fighting.  If the EU had got off their collective bums when Donbas was first invaded, sanctions probably would not even have been needed.

Who said any worldwide leader is reading this?

I'm so sorry - I couldn't find the sarcasm icon.

I hold that it is an ongoing dispute between East and West as it pertains to worldwide resources, and the battlefield isn't just pertaining to guns and bombs...but I'm ok with your simplistic approach....although since I'm viewing it differently I'm going to reach different conclusions.

That's the only thing which you've written that I could even begin to agree with.  The battlefield IS, however, on the ground - sanctions may well eventually cause hardship to the average Russian, but they are unlikely to affect the ruling elite.  Who cares if Putin loses half his fortune?  He would still have enough left to buy most countries.

The people who have been killed as a result of an invasion under completely false pretences, or who have been forced out of their homes, are (or were) not the slightest bit interested in economic warfare which doesn't directly affect them.  They, and the families of all of those killed, are the only ones I care about.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on February 12, 2015, 06:08:39 PM
I heard an interview today by Bill Browder, who ran the most successful investment fund in Russia.  When corrupt officials tried to take it over, his lawyer, Sergey Magnitsky, was killed, and eventually, faced trial posthumously.

I saw the 60 Minutes story.  Scary stuff.  Based on his personal relationship with Putin, he has some excellent insights.   

Emerald posted a link to Browder's 10 February commentary about Putin and Ukraine, saying the West should prepare for war with Putin and the West's response needs to be containment.   Incredibly, Browder wrote that Putin "...is ready to destroy his own country for his own self-preservation."


http://www.institutionalinvestorsalpha.com/Article/3426269/Unhedged-Commentary-Putin-Will-Never-Back-Down.html?LS=Twitter



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 12, 2015, 06:46:49 PM
How so?  At least you are prepared to admit this...

...but, on that basis, how can you come to any conclusion other than the Russians being responsible for the conflict?  It was the Russians who invaded Crimea on a completely bogus pretext - even their number one supporter on this forum, justme100, never EVER accused the Crimean authorities of any discrimination against her for being a Russian-speaking ethnic Russian!

It was the Russians who conducted a meaningless "referendum" which was the biggest crock of shit in modern history (4 million ballot papers printed for 2 million voters, and there are plenty of videos showing stacks of them already completed BEFORE the voting was opened; no option to keep the status quo; and a turnout of 114% (or was it 124%?) in Sevastopol), and who invaded the Crimean Parliament and forced a regime change in the middle of the night at the point of many guns, with the new leader being so popular in the previous real election that his support was less than the margin of error in any poll!


My apologies - perhaps I should have spelt it out that "conflict" here refers to the actual fighting.  If the EU had got off their collective bums when Donbas was first invaded, sanctions probably would not even have been needed.

I'm so sorry - I couldn't find the sarcasm icon.

That's the only thing which you've written that I could even begin to agree with.  The battlefield IS, however, on the ground - sanctions may well eventually cause hardship to the average Russian, but they are unlikely to affect the ruling elite.  Who cares if Putin loses half his fortune?  He would still have enough left to buy most countries.

The people who have been killed as a result of an invasion under completely false pretences, or who have been forced out of their homes, are (or were) not the slightest bit interested in economic warfare which doesn't directly affect them.  They, and the families of all of those killed, are the only ones I care about.

This is a rather brilliant illustration by the sheer force intellect you have exposed this person as a morally weak and intellectually dishonest man.  He does not debate he mocks and obfuscates.  You can debate the Novorossiya argument maybe not successfully.  But for this Kremlin troll, we see he is a bit lazy.

Bravo! btw
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2015, 06:51:33 PM
   But for this Kremlin troll, we see he is a bit lazy.



I have to chuckle each time an opinion  isn't the same as yours the person is a 'kremlin troll' or some other silliness.  My impression remains that you just can't handle a normal conversation!  Too bad!  :ROFL:


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2015, 07:16:38 PM


...but, on that basis, how can you come to any conclusion other than the Russians being responsible for the conflict? It was the Russians who invaded Crimea on a completely bogus pretext - even their number one supporter on this forum, justme100, never EVER accused the Crimean authorities of any discrimination against her for being a Russian-speaking ethnic Russian!



Well Kiwi, It isn't hard to come to the conclusion that the Russian's are NOT entirely responsible for the conflict within the context of a much wider conflict.  Sure the Russian's appear to have stirred the pot so they can get their way (or at least most of it) in this particular case, and they do it differently then western nations sometimes do it.
I'd say from their viewpoint it is a defensive move as many of their allies have had the West (Namely USA) come in and either invade or help create/foment strife.  Yes we eventually leave because we don't need the mess of trying to clean up.   Little by little, nation by nation this has been happening, and all tallied up millions have died or suffered from it.  Sure people now say "I didn't approve of the Iraq war" or I "I don't think we should do that in Syria" or "Libya", nevertheless it is done regardless.    It is easy for simpletons to say 'two wrongs don't make a right' but the reality is if one side is attempting to change regimes and winds up benefiting then it is up to other powerful nations to do the same thing, as only the strong survive in this world.  Some talk about 'bad actors' having a free pass, because of Obama's weakness, I don't see it that way, "Other players" are gaining a free pass because they see what we (the US) has done when we wanted to,and they aren't going to be left behind for a lack of trying. 






That's the only thing which you've written that I could even begin to agree with.  The battlefield IS, however, on the ground - sanctions may well eventually cause hardship to the average Russian, but they are unlikely to affect the ruling elite.  Who cares if Putin loses half his fortune?  He would still have enough left to buy most countries.

The people who have been killed as a result of an invasion under completely false pretences, or who have been forced out of their homes, are (or were) not the slightest bit interested in economic warfare which doesn't directly affect them.  They, and the families of all of those killed, are the only ones I care about.


You may care in this particular instance, but people (many innocents) have been killed 100 times over in recent decades, so you can cherry pick where you are going to show outrage.  Maybe you showed similar outrage during some of the American interventions, if so you are to be applauded for being consistent, if not then I don't think you have a leg to stand on to chastise one side and applaud the other.


   Knowing where I'm coming from, may help you see why I have drawn the conclusions that I have.  I think a lot of others have drawn similar conclusions, but not too many are posting here. 


There is much much more to say regarding specifics.


Fathertime!     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 13, 2015, 02:00:49 PM

More bad news  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Russian Fear of U.S. Hypersonic Missiles Threatens New Arms Race
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-fear-of-u-s-hypersonic-missiles-threatens-new-arms-race/515863.html

Russia Has No Choice But to Continue Gas Route Through Ukraine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-has-no-choice-but-to-continue-gas-route-through-ukraine/515878.html

Russian Banks' Assets Fall $380 Million in January
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-banks-assets-fall-380-million-in-january/515920.html

Russian Oil Giant Rosneft to Slash Spending by 30%
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-oil-giant-rosneft-to-slash-spending-by-30/515919.html

Ministry Predicts Food Prices in Russia to Rise 24 Percent by July
(But dirt will go down 123%)
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ministry-predicts-food-prices-in-russia-to-rise-24-percent-by-july/515861.html

Annexation Euphoria Fades as Crimeans Accused of 'Stealing' Russians' University Places
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/cost-of-crimean-annexation-affects-competition-for-russian-university-places-/515876.html

Russian Military Units Linked to Ukraine Hide Casualty Data
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-military-units-linked-to-ukraine-hide-casualty-data--report/515802.html

Russia Takes a Dive in Press Freedom Ranking
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-takes-a-dive-in-press-freedom-ranking/515833.html

































Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 13, 2015, 03:40:53 PM
that is good news
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 13, 2015, 11:10:01 PM

The EU will not drop the adopted sanctions against Russia, which shall come into force on Monday


This was stated by German Chancellor Angela Merkel after the EU summit in Brussels on Thursday, Censor.NET reports citing Deutsche Welle.

The adopted package of measures bans entry and freezes assets of certain individuals and entities of the separatists and Russian citizens, who support them. The names of these 19 people and nine organizations have not been released yet.

Merkel explained that these sanctions have been adopted in response to the shelling of Mariupol by the separatists, which led to many civilian casualties. She added that at the summit the European Commission was called upon to prepare new possible sanctions against Russia, if need be, and that the EU should have all the abilities for reaction.

http://en.censor.net.ua/news/324484/new_sanctions_against_russia_will_come_into_force_on_monday_merkel

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on February 14, 2015, 10:26:19 PM
Pretty obvious Russia already violated the ceasefire.


http://www.ibtimes.com/ukraine-crisis-ceasefire-broken-hours-after-it-was-called-report-says-1816834?


The US Ambassador to Ukraine has formally said Russia has their air defense systems in Ukraine around Debaltseve.


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/us-ambassador-posts-satellite-images-of-russian-air-defense-systems-near-debaltseve-380650.html?


See the Ambassador's twitter feed here with the  info.


http://twitter.com/GeoffPyatt/media


Time to arm Ukraine or kick the crap out of Russia for them. This is BS and needs to stop. Time to erase ever Russian solider from the face of Ukraine. Since they never were there, nobody will miss them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on February 15, 2015, 07:57:39 AM
Who would have ever thought that the Russian terrorists didn't think the rules applied to them. So all you Russian supporters, what do you say now? What possible justification is there for ignoring a ceasefire that Russian and their terrorists agreed to?


http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/558298/Ukrainian-towns-Russian-separatist-rule-ceasefire?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-express-world-news+%28Daily+Express+%3A%3A+World+Feed%29


Anyway I know the answer to my previous question for the Russian supporters. You will support whatever lame-ass excuse Putin and the terrorists put forward. This is NOT their territory even though they tried to take control of it in direct contrast to the spirit of the ceasefire. They did all they could to try and take it before the ceasefire was supposed to go into effect Sunday.


Every day I am getting closer and closer to supporting direct involvement and kicking Putin's ass and is invisible army back to Russia. Once Russians faced a well coordinated army like the US Marines they would be running back home to mother Russia and crawling back into the wombs of their mamas.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 15, 2015, 08:20:20 AM
I support the creation and arming of several NATO legions on Russia's borders and inside Russia.  Russia cannot wage a full scale invasion of Ukraine while repulsing a Caucasian insurgency, Japanese warships in the Kuriles, US-Canadian claims in the Arctic,  armed opposition parties inside Russia, and green men inside Russia demanding federalization.  The Kremlin Trolls are going to blame us anyway.  Rollback is the best policy.

Have we forgotten?  No SWIFT for Russia. Arm Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on February 15, 2015, 09:24:15 AM
I support the creation and arming of several NATO legions on Russia's borders and inside Russia.  .
(http://review-planet.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/316.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on February 15, 2015, 09:28:03 AM
You must be joking Doll. The Russian bear is vastly overrated. Besides, a bear isn't the apex predator, man is. Man with a gun will easily take down the bear.


Anyway all you need to see to know that Russia is violating the ceasefire and will continue to do so is this text.


http://www.vocativ.com/world/ukraine-world/ukraine-ceasefire-russia/?



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 15, 2015, 10:41:22 AM
(http://review-planet.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/316.jpg)




Ooo, look what happened to the bear when he met Uncle Sam.












(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/bearandunclesam_zps08f07919.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on February 15, 2015, 10:46:47 AM
You must be joking Doll. The Russian bear is vastly overrated. Besides, a bear isn't the apex predator, man is. Man with a gun will easily take down the bear.


Anyway all you need to see to know that Russia is violating the ceasefire and will continue to do so is this text.


http://www.vocativ.com/world/ukraine-world/ukraine-ceasefire-russia/?
BS
you wanted a man?
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8185/8450124004_b27e47d80b.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2015, 10:59:39 AM
Doll,
I almost hate to disillusion you and your core beliefs. BUT there is no Easter bunny and that picture is altered quite a bit with photoshop.  Huilomeister isn't that brave.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on February 15, 2015, 11:12:12 AM
Doll,
I almost hate to disillusion you and your core beliefs. BUT there is no Easter bunny and that picture is altered quite a bit with photoshop.  Huilomeister isn't that brave.
(http://s19.rimg.info/04e6a78994bf115a60229c016a949902.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1260288807.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on February 15, 2015, 11:27:29 AM
Doll,
I almost hate to disillusion you and your core beliefs. BUT there is no Easter bunny and that picture is altered quite a bit with photoshop.  Huilomeister isn't that brave.


Cmon, man, next you will be telling Doll this one isn't real.

(http://i.imgur.com/na17Is6.jpg)





or this one...


(http://mainmati.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/putin-rides-a-meteor.jpg)




anyone hungry?


(http://img.pandawhale.com/86050-Putin-riding-a-Ritz-cracker-gi-LMxl.gif)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on February 15, 2015, 11:38:33 AM
(http://babruisk.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/putin.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on February 15, 2015, 11:40:27 AM
(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/What+i+think+of+when+i+hear+putin+not+mine_0e4d7a_3436511.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 15, 2015, 01:08:57 PM
Vladimir H. Putler




(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/putin_krim_zpsdde870a3.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on February 15, 2015, 01:43:11 PM
Some people act like rabid animals. Rabid animals need to be put down. I wouldn't mind a little seat time to help out.


Doll's blindness to what really is going on sadly like is like too many other Russians. Just because enough people say there is an Easter Bunny or Ded Moroz doesn't make it true. Just because all the Russian news media says Ukrainians are Nazis and attacking Russians at will doesn't make it true.


Going into this I was much more likely to side with Russian just because I lived there and had more Russian friends than Ukrainian. My ex was Russian as well. So in general I would have been more sympathetic to Russia in someways UNTIL I saw it all happening with my own eyes. I was in Kiev during the earliest days of Maidan. If it wasn't for that, quite likely my wife and I never would have married. It was then she really saw that I was open to assessing all the facts and realize that the corrupt Russian influence in Ukraine needed to go.


Putin is a murder, plain and simple. It is because of his ego that so many people have died. The sooner Putin goes to hell, the better off we'll all be.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2015, 02:37:41 PM
Russia needs to be eviscerated, and spit into many 4th world countries so this international aggression is out of the gene pool forever!  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2015, 02:48:38 PM
Quote
Is Russia's Economy Rebalancing In The Face Of Western Sanctions? Not Really!

 Ever since the West slapped punitive sanctions on Russia in response to its blatant military intervention in Ukraine, Pro-Kremlin commentators in the Russian media (i.e. almost all of them) have been making bold statements about their economy’s resilience.

 Throughout 2014, Russia’s total industrial production grew by roughly 1.7%, while its total agricultural output grew by about 3.7%. Considering the scale of the ruble’s devaluation and the growing upward pressure on prices (inflation was more than 10% in 2014 and could be 15% or higher in 2015) these are hardly robust figures. In fact, they’re substantially worse than several of the, rather tepid, post-crisis years.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2015/02/11/is-russias-economy-rebalancing-in-the-face-of-western-sanctions-not-really/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2015, 10:22:05 PM
SWIFT disconnect: Why does it absolutely terrify the corrupt Russian elite?
Article by: Andrey Shipilov


One bank official from Cyprus explained to me why Medvedev, Kostin, etc. responded so nervously and inadequately to reports of a possible disconnection of Russia from SWIFT.

The fact is that while the other Western sanctions affect the Russian economy as a whole, a disconnection from SWIFT would primarily affect them personally.

Russia’s economy without SWIFT will continue to operate, albeit with difficulty. But they–personally–without SWIFT will not be able to control their personal anonymous assets in Western banks and will lose access to them.

At present, they control their accounts in Western banks anonymously through a chain of front firms, which are impossible to trace. But their operations are completely dependent on SWIFT for operation. All of current money-laundering and anonymization schemes are dependent on SWIFT. Other such operations simply do not exist at present, and new ones can not be developed in a month. Nor in six months, either. And it is not clear that they would be possible at all.

When disconnected from SWIFT, the [corrupt elite] will either have to give up control over their anonymous assets or assume a high risk of losing their anonymity.



http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/02/16/swift-disconnect-absolutely-terrify-corrupt-russian-elite/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 16, 2015, 12:33:36 AM
Another Western failure, SWIFT still on for the Kremlin mob.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 16, 2015, 08:26:42 PM
The Russian leader today announced a $35 billion anti-crisis spending plan, but admitted to reporters he did not know how best to implement the cash injection into the economy, a local Russian news station reported.

The economy aside, Russia faces its own threat from Islamic extremism, weak national institutions, increasing societal pressures, and looming unemployment.

size=14pt]The $35 billion problem worrying Vladimir Putin much more than Ukrainian sanctions[/size]

Russia is ranked as among the most corrupt nations on the planet, scoring just 27 out of 100 (0: highly corrupt, 100: clean) in Transparency Internationals 2014 ranking. It came below countries such as Pakistan, Gambia, Sierra Leone and Nigeria.

What this corruption translates to (returning to the economy) is that since the Russian government slid back reforms – for example, re-taking many of the businesses that were privatised during the boom years – productivity and investment have slumped.

Put simply: there is no growth as a direct result of corruption. Previous sources of growth have been exhausted and investment requires protection of property right and enforcement of contracts – exactly what corruption dissuades.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-35-billion-problem-worrying-vladimir-putin-more-more-than-ukrainian-sanctions-10045102.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 16, 2015, 08:52:48 PM
More cheerleading Jay?


Swiss Bankers Helped Putin
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-08/leaked-hsbc-list-shows-who-was-banking-on-swiss-secrecy

Sanctions LOL
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 16, 2015, 09:13:11 PM
Putin Lets Consumers Feel Pain as Russian Slump Deepens

Crushed by a 44 percent slump in the ruble in the past year as prices soar, retail sales are set for what Otkritie Capital predicts will be their biggest decline since the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991, when savings were wiped out and households endured food shortages and hyperinflation. That’s unnerved consumers like Svetlana Korotkova, who’s stockpiling cereals and canned goods to build up what she calls her “safety cushion,” a lesson she learned from perestroika-era deprivation in the 1980s.

“Government resources are very limited now, so I don’t expect strong help,” said Korotkova, a 42-year-old accountant who spoke as she browsed through a shopping mall in Tula, about 200 kilometers (125 miles) south of Moscow.

Read the rest here,

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-16/putin-lets-russian-consumers-feel-the-pain-as-economy-succumbs
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 17, 2015, 05:44:06 AM
You gotta love this guy

http://www.dw.de/kremlin-critic-alexei-navalny-detained-in-moscow-subway/a-18259559
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on February 17, 2015, 09:59:57 AM
Pretty compelling proof Russia was launching attacks from their territory as early as 11 July 2014.


http://www.businessinsider.com/proof-that-russia-shelled-ukrainian-troops-and-took-control-of-the-rebel-held-border-2015-2?



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 17, 2015, 11:01:15 AM
Pretty compelling proof Russia was launching attacks from their territory as early as 11 July 2014.


http://www.businessinsider.com/proof-that-russia-shelled-ukrainian-troops-and-took-control-of-the-rebel-held-border-2015-2?


 Good catch Taz! Dyakuyu
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 17, 2015, 03:40:38 PM
Can Russia Survive After Ukraine?

Yvgeny Gontmakher, one of Russia’s leading economists, told forum attendees that Putin himself recognizes that the situation is dire. “Putin realized that current political vertical of state management was not effective and held meetings called ‘the system’s crises,’” Gontmakher said.

“Analyzing the current situation, I would predict that the economy’s growth would shrink by 5 percent in 2015 and that it would be either zero or negative during the coming decade,” Gontmakher concluded. “But all that is not going to matter to the society, as people’s main concern would be where to get food,” the expert added.

Read the rest at

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/17/can-russia-survive-after-ukraine.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 17, 2015, 06:48:46 PM
Russia will shrink by 5%?

Ukraine has already shrunk by 11.4%.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 19, 2015, 05:55:49 PM
Russia Sold Off $22 Billion in U.S. Bonds to Slow Economy's Slide
 (US BONDS??? WTF???)
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-sold-off-22-billion-in-u-s-bonds-to-slow-economy-s-slide/516265.html

Russians Feel the Pinch of Rising Food Prices as Inflation Bites
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russians-feel-the-pinch-of-rising-food-prices-as-inflation-bites/516256.html

Polish Retailer LPP Says It May Halt Expansion in Russia, Ukraine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/polish-retailer-lpp-says-it-may-halt-expansion-in-russia-ukraine/516255.html

Despite Cuts, Russian Deficit to Reach 3.2% of GDP in 2015
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/despite-cuts-russian-deficit-to-reach-3-2-of-gdp-in-2015/516253.html

Russian Investment Firm Proxima Walks Away From JKX Oil and Gas
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-investment-fim-proxima-walks-away-from-jkx-oil-and-gas/516247.html

Gazprom's Falling Gas Sales Pummel Russian Budget
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/gazprom-s-falling-gas-sales-pummel-russian-budget/516210.html

Russian Assets Continue Slide as Oil Prices Drop
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-s-ruble-weakens-on-falling-oil-price/516200.html

Moscow Searches for Cash to Fund New Metro Stations on Red Line
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/moscow-searches-for-cash-to-fund-new-metro-stations-on-red-line/515995.html

'Moskva-City' Skyscrapers Set to Be Emptier Than Ever
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/moskva-city-skyscrapers-set-to-be-emptier-than-ever/516022.html


But dirt is still cheap and filling..  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 19, 2015, 06:24:58 PM
Navalny given 15 days for breaking the terms of his House arrest:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/02/19/world/europe/ap-eu-russia-opposition-leader.html?_r=0

he won't be able to attend his pro-Navalny march on the 1st
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 19, 2015, 07:54:48 PM
Belarus gets ready to Bail out on Russia

Lukashenka Says Belarus Ready For Dialogue With NATO

Belarusian President Alyaksandr Lukashenka says his country is ready for a "constructive dialogue" with NATO.

Speaking to top Belarusian military officials in Minsk on February 19, Lukashenka said: "As a sovereign state we are open, in particular, to constructive dialogue with NATO on parity and transparency principles."

He added that "we have a lot of common issues [with NATO]; joint work on which fully meets Belarus’s interests."

Lukashenka -- who has ruled for 21 years and been called the last dictator of Europe -- said the fighting in Ukraine has shown that Belarus must have an army capable of protecting "its national interests."

"If need be, we have to be able to defend the independence and sovereignty of our country," he said.

Lukashenka added that additional finances will be allocated for the ongoing systemic renovation of arms in Belarusian armed forces which is scheduled to be accomplished by 2020.

http://www.rferl.org/content/l...-talks/26858369.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on February 19, 2015, 07:59:44 PM
MIKE ,
not really surprising at all  ;)

lukashenka must be a worried man in belarus , id guess khazakstan would be in a similar frame of thought over the ukraine invasion as would others around the russian border

says a lot about mr putins , man of power /influence doesnt it ,  ;D ;D

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 19, 2015, 08:28:16 PM
Nope and I suspect that the other `stans will be doing some serious thinking along the same lines IF they're smart.

 No one wants to be friends with this despot unless he pays them off.  (Think of the kid that was so ugly that his parents had to tie a pork chop around his neck just to get the dog to like him.)

Russia will be ostracized for generations because of these actions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 20, 2015, 12:47:47 AM
Kazakhstan readies to jump from Russian 'Titanic'
  Putin's at the helm and the ship is sinking..

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1045561-kazakhstan-readies-to-jump-from-russian-titanic.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 20, 2015, 04:07:54 PM
Moody's cut Russia rating down to junk status...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/moodys-cuts-russia-junk-213610047.html


What will mongoloid putin do now?
Create his own patriotic Russian credit rating agency to give the country a AAA+ rating?
 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 20, 2015, 05:01:07 PM
Awww Gee that tooo bad! My heart bleeds purple peanut butter for them.. (Almost)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 20, 2015, 05:20:01 PM
Ruble tumbles after oil prices fall again

Falling oil prices have again driven the Russian ruble lower, destroying gains made earlier in the week.

In early morning trading on February 19, the ruble was almost one percent weaker against the dollar at 62 to one, and 71 rubles for one euro. Brent crude oil was almost two per cent lower, moving towards a barrel as fresh worries of oversupply gripped energy markets.

Oil is one of Russia's chief exports and hence is an important driver for all Russian assets.
http://uatoday.tv/business/ruble-tumbles-after-oil-prices-fall-410411.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 05:23:55 PM
Moody's cut Russia rating down to junk status...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/moodys-cuts-russia-junk-213610047.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/moodys-cuts-russia-junk-213610047.html)


What will mongoloid putin do now?
Create his own patriotic Russian credit rating agency to give the country a AAA+ rating?
 :ROFL:


I was browsing the internet today and noticed that the Ukraine currency is now down to 28 for the dollar....closing in on 4 times less value then a year ago.
The Russian currency has risen slightly to just under 62 to the dollar....1/2 the value it had roughly a year ago. 


It doesn't appear the open market cares very much for the Moody credit ratings...although let's see what happens Monday when the market reopens. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on February 20, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
It doesn't appear the open market cares very much for the Moody credit ratings...although let's see what happens Monday when the market reopens.

Being downgraded to junk status will make it more expensive to borrow money.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 20, 2015, 05:55:10 PM
Quote from: fathertime link=topic=1 7720.msg395124#msg395124 date=1424478235

I was browsing the internet today and noticed that the Ukraine currency is now down to 28 for the dollar....closing in on 4 times less value then a year ago.
Are you telling falsehoods on purpose?  :rolleyes:
 You'd better check your arithmetic again. A year ago the hyrivna was at 8.9 (well call it 9 to make it easier for you)  Today it's at 27.99 as per one of the best online converters around.
 (Let's make that an even 28 for easy figuring.)

 9X4=36 Not 28  :rolleyes:

 9X3= 27  (much closer to reality that 36.) Correct?

 But the correct number (rounded) is really 3.11  NOT closing in on  4

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=UAH&view=1Y

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 07:05:37 PM
Are you telling falsehoods on purpose?  :rolleyes:
 You'd better check your arithmetic again. A year ago the hyrivna was at 8.9 (well call it 9 to make it easier for you)  Today it's at 27.99 as per one of the best online converters around.
 (Let's make that an even 28 for easy figuring.)

 9X4=36 Not 28  :rolleyes:

 9X3= 27  (much closer to reality that 36.) Correct?

 But the correct number (rounded) is really 3.11  NOT closing in on  4

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=UAH&view=1Y (http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=UAH&view=1Y)


You seem a little sensitive regarding the PLUMMETING Hryvnia!  According to the resource I'm using, In January 2014 it was around 8 flat where it was for several years, who cares about an extra 20-30 days, it is about a year.  ....now it is around 28....it has rounded 3X and is steadily marching for 4X. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 20, 2015, 07:09:52 PM
I'm not worried about the hyrivna. I do tend to wonder why some exaggerate to the point of telling falsehoods.  Motive?  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 07:17:13 PM
I'm not worried about the hyrivna. I do tend to wonder why some exaggerate to the point of telling falsehoods.  Motive?  :rolleyes:


I don't see the falsehood, the Ukrainian currency is indeed likely headed for 4 times less value then around a year ago.  I've noticed there is much talk about currencies, so why not bring up this fact as well?  Weren't you of the many  pumping 20 dollar oil?  :crackwhip:


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 20, 2015, 07:30:14 PM
Your choice of wording leaves a lot to be desired as far as making it more accurate..

 Unless Miss Cleo has called you OR you've got your own personal crystal ball for prognostications you have no idea where the hyrivna is headed. Another assumption or falsehood!

 Even the FOREX wizards don't know.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 07:36:01 PM
Your choice of wording leaves a lot to be desired as far as making it more accurate..

 Unless Miss Cleo has called you OR you've got your own personal crystal ball for prognostications you have no idea where the hyrivna is headed. Another assumption or falsehood!

 Even the FOREX wizards don't know.

 


...and what about all YOUR speculation about the Russian currency going to 150-200?  And oil going to 20?   Unless Miss Cleo has called YOU, your prognostications have been fruitless and wrong thus far...You shouldn't mind if others make prognostications that may or may not turn out wrong...thus far the Ukrainian currency has TANKED...and it could easily hit 4 times less value...maybe more...it is well on its way. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 20, 2015, 07:40:20 PM
I quoted articles for my references you seem to pull them out of dark recess w/o citing anything other than yourself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 07:46:51 PM
I quoted articles for my references you seem to pull them out of dark recess w/o citing anything other than yourself.


Who cares about 'quoted' articles?  There is silly 'quote' for every incredible prediction under the sun.


 I did not quote anything because I came up with the post all by myself!   :D  The fact remains that thus far the Hryvnia has already rounded 3X and is marching toward 4X.  Nothing too extraordinary about that fact/future possibility,  especially in comparison to predictions like 200 Ruble to the dollar or 20 dollar oil.   


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 20, 2015, 07:49:57 PM
Yet you can't realize that 3.11 does not equal 4.. You really have no idea where it's headed.

 Whether or you're right or wrong will be told at some future date.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 07:54:00 PM
Yet you can't realize that 3.11 does not equal 4.. You really have no idea where it's headed.

 Whether or you're right or wrong will be told at some future date.


I don't accept your 3.11 number...it is well over that when looked at from January 2014 and the several years preceding that which is fairly accurate measurement compared to when it began jumping due to the crisis in Feb 2014.


 YOU have no idea where the Russian currency is headed, nor where oil is headed. 


Yes it will be told at a future date.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 20, 2015, 08:03:29 PM
Go look it up then. I bothered to provide a link at least showing the 1 year numbers.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 20, 2015, 08:08:14 PM

I don't accept your 3.11 number...it is well over that when looked at from January 2014 and the several years preceding that which is fairly accurate measurement compared to when it began jumping due to the crisis in Feb 2014.


 YOU have no idea where the Russian currency is headed, nor where oil is headed. 


Yes it will be told at a future date.


Fathertime!

C'mon FT. With all of your insight I'm sure you've made millions on the market, right? Tell me please, should I buy more grivnas or sell?  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 08:15:02 PM
Go look it up then. I bothered to provide a link at least showing the 1 year numbers.


The fact remains the Hryvnia has gone up well over 3X  since the beginning of the crisis, and has a good chance to head for 4X!   Now how about some more of those 20 dollar oil and 200 Ruble predictions? 




C'mon FT. With all of your insight I'm sure you've made millions on the market, right? Tell me please, should I buy more grivnas or sell?  :rolleyes:


Be still!  Learn to think for yourself, and make your own millions.      :D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 20, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
Be still!  Learn to think for yourself, and make your own millions.      :D


Fathertime!

Yeah, that's what I thought. You're the harbinger of doom as long as there is doom. Please quit predicting the fall of the grivna unless you really know something rather than just acting like you know something because you don't. You don't know FT. Weighing it against an artificial dollar is bullshit. Tides could turn tomorrow and the grivna is 5 to the dollar or God forbid 1-1. Nobody knows or at least nobody here knows
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 08:39:49 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought. You're the harbinger of doom as long as there is doom. Please quit predicting the fall of the grivna unless you really know something rather than just acting like you know something because you don't. You don't know FT. Weighing it against an artificial dollar is bullshit. Tides could turn tomorrow and the grivna is 5 to the dollar or God forbid 1-1. Nobody knows or at least nobody here knows


WOW that is so profound...you THOUGHT I didn't know what was going to happen with the Ukraine currency, that is really novel....Lemme help you a bit, of course I don't know, but I can still speculate, just like others do!  What I do know for sure is, thus far it is well over 3 times less valuable to the dollar then it was at the beginning of this crisis around 1 year ago.. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 20, 2015, 10:20:57 PM

Who cares about 'quoted' articles? 

Geez I wonder who...

I happened to be browsing the internet this evening and found a link

While browsing the internet today I found an article

While browsing the internet I came across this piece

I was browsing the internet this morning and found a couple links

I happened to be browsing the internet and found this opinion piece


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 20, 2015, 11:30:21 PM
 :clapping:

What a tard, I love it when its FT v FT
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 11:36:23 PM
:clapping:

What a tard,


Wait would Jesus say such a cruel thing? :D


Fathetime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 11:37:21 PM
Geez I wonder who...
So I sometimes browse the internet and see articles of interest! 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 20, 2015, 11:41:00 PM

Wait would Jesus say such a cruel thing? :D


Fathetime!

You believe in Jesus?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 20, 2015, 11:49:35 PM
You believe in Jesus?
lol
Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 20, 2015, 11:57:19 PM
Geez I wonder who...

It is like the lazy agency  hairy Boris letters from mob websites-- to stupid to change opening each day !!      iQ  with lots of zeros and no numbers in front of them !!
 ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 21, 2015, 12:06:06 AM
It is like the lazy agency  hairy Boris letters from mob websites-- to stupid to change opening each day !!      iQ  with lots of zeros and no numbers in front of them !!
 ;D

That sounds hysterical JayH, just like the whole crisis is.    :rolleyes:  If you had your way the casualties would probably have one number in front of 6 zeros...although perhaps you haven't learned to count that high, isolated in your General's chair, and remote control.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 21, 2015, 09:16:46 AM
lol
Fathertime!

Exactly.

And BTW, when I referenced that someone was a tard, why did you immediately think it was you?

Did FT walk into an FT trap?

What a tard (not necessarily you FT [you tard])
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 21, 2015, 09:17:29 AM
Exactly.

And BTW, when I referenced that someone was a tard, why did you immediately think it was you?

Did FT walk into an FT trap?

What a yard (not necessarily you FT [you tard])


Lol!


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 21, 2015, 09:23:45 AM
Transnistria jeopardized due to Ruble crisis

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/20/transnistria-russia-rouble-crisis

Moldova in NATO?

Russian bonds muck like our Novorossiya members: junk
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-20/russia-cut-to-junk-by-moody-s-on-ukraine-crisis-oil-price-fall
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 21, 2015, 09:45:53 AM

WOW that is so profound...you THOUGHT I didn't know what was going to happen with the Ukraine currency, that is really novel....Lemme help you a bit, of course I don't know, but I can still speculate, just like others do!  What I do know for sure is, thus far it is well over 3 times less valuable to the dollar then it was at the beginning of this crisis around 1 year ago.. 


Fathertime!

C'mon Nasaldomus. Tell me where the grivna will be in 12 months from now
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 21, 2015, 09:54:45 AM
C'mon Nasaldomus. Tell me where the grivna will be in 12 months from now


Are you pleading for help or something ?  It is in the toilet currently.  Go ahead and invest if you want to, and report back to the website membership!   :popcorn:


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 21, 2015, 10:20:03 AM

Are you pleading for help or something ?  It is in the toilet currently.  Go ahead and invest if you want to, and report back to the website membership!   :popcorn:


Fathertime!

According to you, your prediction of the past 12 months have come to fruition. I don't recall you making any such predictions. I am giving you the opportunity to prove me wrong with your prediction of the next 12 months. Go for it  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 21, 2015, 10:26:05 AM
According to you, your prediction of the past 12 months have come to fruition. 


Perhaps you can provide the post where I said I made this prediction.  Good luck!  :D


  I don't recall you making any such predictions. 
Neither do I. 


  I am giving you the opportunity to prove me wrong with your prediction of the next 12 months. Go for it  :rolleyes:


Lets follow your 'logic' here.  You are giving me an opportunity to make a prediction for the next 12 months because the earlier prediction (I never made) has come true.   Lots of sense you are making!


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 22, 2015, 07:53:23 PM
Russian credit rating downgraded to 'junk' by Moody's agency
     
All three major credit agencies now rate Russia's credit status as junk

Russia's struggling economy has been hit by news that all three major credit rating agencies have labeled Russia's rating, 'junk'.

American firm Moody's said the decision was based on 'the continuing crisis in Ukraine and the recent oil price and exchange rate shocks'.

Russia's rating has already been downgraded to junk by the other two main credit agencies - Fitch and Standard & Poor's


http://uatoday.tv/business/russian-credit-rating-downgraded-to-junk-by-moody-s-agency-410875.html


 Flush twice.. it's a long ways to Moscow!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 22, 2015, 08:13:14 PM

Perhaps you can provide the post where I said I made this prediction.  Good luck!  :D

Neither do I. 



Lets follow your 'logic' here.  You are giving me an opportunity to make a prediction for the next 12 months because the earlier prediction (I never made) has come true.   Lots of sense you are making!


Fathertime!

Word twisting with FT
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 22, 2015, 08:45:53 PM
Russia's Economy plunge halted!
 :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 22, 2015, 09:35:40 PM
Russian credit rating downgraded to 'junk' by Moody's agency
     
All three major credit agencies now rate Russia's credit status as junk

Russia's struggling economy has been hit by news that all three major credit rating agencies have labeled Russia's rating, 'junk'.

American firm Moody's said the decision was based on 'the continuing crisis in Ukraine and the recent oil price and exchange rate shocks'.

Russia's rating has already been downgraded to junk by the other two main credit agencies - Fitch and Standard & Poor's


http://uatoday.tv/business/russian-credit-rating-downgraded-to-junk-by-moody-s-agency-410875.html


 Flush twice.. it's a long ways to Moscow!

I am just waiting for transgender Putin to start up his own domestic credit rating agency.
Using the same playbook like that silly idea of domestic production substitution after he banned EU foodstuff last year.
Yep, a patriotic Russian credit rating agency to give his serfdom a AAA+ credit rating!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 22, 2015, 09:39:04 PM
Hey Doll,

Can you teach us how to pronounce Junk in Russian?

 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 22, 2015, 09:48:05 PM
утиль (junk)


              Or

       
мусор   (Garbage)



   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 23, 2015, 02:24:40 AM
As rouble weakens, migrants head home

When heavy snowfall hit Russia’s second city of Saint Petersburg last month it was nothing unusual, but city officials were overwhelmed and scrambled to find anyone to clear the streets.
As pedestrians slipped and suffered bruises and fractures, exasperated city officials ended up telling residents to go out and shovel the snow themselves.
The city was unable to clear the snowdrifts because of an exodus of migrants from Central Asia who normally do such backbreaking work in Russia’s largest cities. They have headed back home after Russia’s rouble currency plunged in value.
“Almost 30% of the workers who left to spend New Year’s as usual with their families in Uzbekistan or Tajikistan have not come back,” said the head of a street cleaning company, who asked not to be named.
The deputy governor of Saint Petersburg, Igor Albin, said recently that the city had lost half the migrant workers who do this type of manual labour.
Migrants from the ex-Soviet states in Central Asia used to flock to Russia to work as street sweepers, gypsy cab drivers or restaurant cleaners. Even the low wages seemed better than conditions back home.
But many are returning to their countries as the Russian economy is choked by crippling Western sanctions over the Ukraine crisis and plunging oil prices. That has caused the rouble to lose half its value against the dollar, hitting migrants’ paychecks hard.
http://www.gulf-times.com/mobile//uk-europe/183/details/428187/as-rouble-weakens,-migrants-head-home

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 23, 2015, 03:24:02 AM
Maybe the Russians will be able to head to  Uzbekistan or Tajikistan  to get work when the rubble hits complete rock bottom  and they can sweep some streets there--after all--they will be able to say they are experienced street sweepers !! ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 23, 2015, 06:22:25 AM
An analyst I follow on Twitter says the Russian economy has bottomed out though the Ukrainian war and oil could drive it in other directions.  Right now oil producers are storing oil and are at 80% capacity.  If the Saudis keep pumping oil in exchange for market share, prices will go down once capacity is met barring no other geopolitical events.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 23, 2015, 11:18:43 AM
Translation of a very good analysis of Russian military capabilities. 

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/02/23/moscow-military-analyst-russian-army-currently-unprepared-modern-war/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/02/23/moscow-military-analyst-russian-army-currently-unprepared-modern-war/)
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on February 23, 2015, 11:27:17 AM
An analyst I follow on Twitter says the Russian economy has bottomed out though the Ukrainian war and oil could drive it in other directions.  Right now oil producers are storing oil and are at 80% capacity.  If the Saudis keep pumping oil in exchange for market share, prices will go down once capacity is met barring no other geopolitical events.

My belief is that simple weather and maintenance related problems have impacted the increased storage of oil.  The refineries can't get enough product out currently.  The US is stockpiled at 80% ABOVE the previously highest storage total in the history of oil storage. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 23, 2015, 11:49:59 AM
Jone, I heard they are using supertankers for storage as well.  Is that standard business practice or safe?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 23, 2015, 02:56:53 PM
Translation of a very good analysis of Russian military capabilities. 

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/02/23/moscow-military-analyst-russian-army-currently-unprepared-modern-war/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/02/23/moscow-military-analyst-russian-army-currently-unprepared-modern-war/)

Interesting how different assessments can reach varied conclusions  eg  Russian military is at the level of Pakistan.  While to a point technically that may be a reasonable comment there would not be too many people who believed that would be the case in practice.
Russian military will do ok until faced with real pressure. Some of the military have been trained by Germans recently and have updated battlefield organisation( those troops spearheaded Crimean invasion and I believe they were the first Russians in eastern Ukraine way back in April 2014--  and are the same troops involved last week).
Generally speaking--Ukrainians have taken quite a toll on the invasion forces-disproportionally as it happens-given the superior armaments of the invasion forces.Now the Russians seem no longer concerned who now know they are there-- so maybe that will see them upgrading the attack-they have certainly amassed a huge number of men and  equipment.
The real test for Russia will come if it faces the latest--or at least later- equipment that the west has.My guess is that then Putin will be squawking for peace
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 23, 2015, 03:45:17 PM
How do you say "White Elephant" in Russian?

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/moscows-flagship-12-billion-financial-district-is-a-half-empty-disaster-2015-2
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 23, 2015, 04:14:01 PM
Interesting how different assessments can reach varied conclusions  eg  Russian military is at the level of Pakistan.  While to a point technically that may be a reasonable comment there would not be too many people who believed that would be the case in practice.
Russian military will do ok until faced with real pressure. Some of the military have been trained by Germans recently and have updated battlefield organisation( those troops spearheaded Crimean invasion and I believe they were the first Russians in eastern Ukraine way back in April 2014--  and are the same troops involved last week).

Russia faced zero resistance in Crimea militarily.

Quote
Generally speaking--Ukrainians have taken quite a toll on the invasion forces-disproportionally as it happens-given the superior armaments of the invasion forces.Now the Russians seem no longer concerned who now know they are there-- so maybe that will see them upgrading the attack-they have certainly amassed a huge number of men and  equipment.
The real test for Russia will come if it faces the latest--or at least later- equipment that the west has.My guess is that then Putin will be squawking for peace

Few even Putin would believe that the Russian forces could have the slightest chance against a formidable military force as the U.S.. Likely two chances, slim and none. However, thinking he would be squawking for peace would be a huge underestimation and a major mistake. He still has a nuclear program and he's crazy enough to use it. It wouldn't take but one launch on his part for complete nuclear destruction of the planet. With Russia and Putin specifically, it's not as easy as, we'll come kick your ass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 23, 2015, 04:23:44 PM
Russia faced zero resistance in Crimea militarily.

Sad but true

He still has a nuclear program and he's crazy enough to use it. It wouldn't take but one launch on his part for complete nuclear destruction of the planet. With Russia and Putin specifically, it's not as easy as, we'll come kick your ass

Wild a$$ guess, what are the probabilities he uses it against us if hypothetically he faced a United West (say under a President Walker or Bush or Clinton)?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 23, 2015, 04:38:47 PM
Russia faced zero resistance in Crimea militarily.

Few even Putin would believe that the Russian forces could have the slightest chance against a formidable military force as the U.S.. Likely two chances, slim and none. However, thinking he would be squawking for peace would be a huge underestimation and a major mistake. He still has a nuclear program and he's crazy enough to use it. It wouldn't take but one launch on his part for complete nuclear destruction of the planet. With Russia and Putin specifically, it's not as easy as, we'll come kick your ass

My squawking reference--if Ukraine was able to push back Russian forces -then Putin would want to negotiate to hold what he has.

I have commented previously on US military( I would be very happy to have them there)-- it is tricky situation for US. A decision to get involved should not be half hearted--it needs to be preparation to go to 100% if required. Putin would at the least attempt to bluff US-- so US would need to be clear that his bluff will be called.
The best way to contain conflict-- is for Putin to be in no doubt that US is ultra serious.In other words--out bully the bully.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 23, 2015, 05:10:13 PM
o 100% if required. Putin would at the least attempt to bluff US-- so US would need to be clear that his bluff will be called.
The best way to contain conflict-- is for Putin to be in no doubt that US is ultra serious.In other words--out bully the bully.


We would be wasting our time and risking a wider war...Putin would see the US bluff and do whatever he is going to do....the US is not and will not be THAT interested in Ukraine.   Had this been Canada or Mexico, it wouldn't be a bluff, but for Ukraine it is, Putin Knows it, Obama knows it, the EU representatives know it...and that is a reason nothing of the sort will be happening.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 23, 2015, 05:21:13 PM
If the US instigated "regime change", as most pro Putinists believe, then why would they just walk away?  That makes no sense.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 23, 2015, 05:21:14 PM
Sad but true

Wild a$$ guess, what are the probabilities he uses it against us if hypothetically he faced a United West (say under a President Walker or Bush or Clinton)?

United West wouldn't make any difference IMHO. When he starts to face defeat or lose power there is no telling what that maniac is capable of. I don't know if he's capable of launching a nuke but, he wouldn't have to launch but one and it's game over or, give one to an enemy of the U.S.

My squawking reference--if Ukraine was able to push back Russian forces -then Putin would want to negotiate to hold what he has.

I have commented previously on US military( I would be very happy to have them there)-- it is tricky situation for US. A decision to get involved should not be half hearted--it needs to be preparation to go to 100% if required. Putin would at the least attempt to bluff US-- so US would need to be clear that his bluff will be called.
The best way to contain conflict-- is for Putin to be in no doubt that US is ultra serious.In other words--out bully the bully.

IMHO, the only card the U.S. can play at this point is to arm Ukraine to the teeth and assist any country willing to help Ukraine. U.S. boots on the ground even through NATO or the UN isn't an option. Any military confrontation directly between the U.S. and Russia will still bring the world to the brink. I'm not willing to risk that, are you?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 23, 2015, 05:34:12 PM
Western troops could just be there on vacation!

 Hey it works both ways.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 23, 2015, 05:38:57 PM
Respect to FP
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 23, 2015, 05:49:46 PM
United West wouldn't make any difference IMHO. When he starts to face defeat or lose power there is no telling what that maniac is capable of. I don't know if he's capable of launching a nuke but, he wouldn't have to launch but one and it's game over or, give one to an enemy of the U.S.

IMHO, the only card the U.S. can play at this point is to arm Ukraine to the teeth and assist any country willing to help Ukraine.[ U.S. boots on the ground even through NATO or the UN isn't an option. Any military confrontation directly between the U.S. and Russia will still bring the world to the brink. I'm not willing to risk that, are you?

Nukes are not an option for Putin or Russia. He cannot win a preemptive strategic attack and if he/Russia were to deploy a tactical nuke the response would be the same.

Exactly, arm Ukraine to the teeth and use contractors to train them or partner countries like Canada, Australia or the UK.

I'm of the opinion we're already in a "pay now or pay later" situation. Direct confrontation is inevitable, whether U.S. or NATO. If not stopped now sooner or later Putin will go all in on either Ukraine or some other FSU country.

I doubt anything will happen until Washington has a new administration though. Obama's trying desperately to finish his term without becoming involved in a major European war.

A lot of people are going to die while he tries to save what's left of his presidency and legacy.

Some say Ukraine cannot defeat Russia militarily. That is the wrong question. The right question is: If we help Ukrainians increase the military cost to the Russian forces that have invaded their country, how long can Putin sustain a war that he tells his people is not happening?” McCain said during the same conference."

http://www.stripes.com/news/us-inching-toward-sending-arms-to-ukraine-1.331182

This has always been the 'right question'. Further, Ukraine has not been the pushover Putin assumed it was going to be (no thanks to the EU, NATO or the US). Ukraine may well end up being Putin's Afghanistan.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 23, 2015, 06:16:22 PM
Russian credit rating downgraded to 'junk' by Moody's agency
     
All three major credit agencies now rate Russia's credit status as junk

Russia's struggling economy has been hit by news that all three major credit rating agencies have labeled Russia's rating, 'junk'.

American firm Moody's said the decision was based on 'the continuing crisis in Ukraine and the recent oil price and exchange rate shocks'.

Russia's rating has already been downgraded to junk by the other two main credit agencies - Fitch and Standard & Poor's


http://uatoday.tv/business/russian-credit-rating-downgraded-to-junk-by-moody-s-agency-410875.html


 Flush twice.. it's a long ways to Moscow!

Putinochio doesn't care.  He's sitting pretty financially and 80% of the lemmings in Russia still believe whatever he tells them.  They're still convinced it's a western conspiracy and if only they can take Ukraine back everything will return to normal.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 23, 2015, 06:19:38 PM
United West wouldn't make any difference IMHO. When he starts to face defeat or lose power there is no telling what that maniac is capable of. I don't know if he's capable of launching a nuke but, he wouldn't have to launch but one and it's game over or, give one to an enemy of the U.S.

I don't follow you here.  It's game over for Putin?  Or game over for the World?  Who is it game over for?

Not than any of us want Nuclear war but I believe the US is in a much better position to "win" that confrontation.

I can see Moscow smoldering in ruins right now and 20% of the Russian population gone forever.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 23, 2015, 06:24:29 PM
John McCain sums up the Ukraine situation...

 “I believe that the German chancellor and the president of France legitimized for the first time in 70 years the dismemberment of a country in Europe. It's shameful,” McCain said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “Vladimir Putin has not paid any price. Even the cease-fire was violated.”

“This is a shameful chapter. I'm ashamed of my country, I'm ashamed of my president, and I'm ashamed of myself that I haven't done more to help these people,” he added. “It is really, really heartbreaking.”

“Vladimir Putin wants Ukraine not to be part of Europe. And he is succeeding in doing so. He's put enormous pressure on the Baltics, not to mention Moldova and continued occupation of Georgia as well. This is really a dark chapter in the history of our alliance.”

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/233442-mccain-im-ashamed-of-my-country

Pretty well sums up my feelings towards Canada (and it's allies) as well.

Shame on us all.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 23, 2015, 06:35:22 PM
John McCain sums up the Ukraine situation...

 “I believe that the German chancellor and the president of France legitimized for the first time in 70 years the dismemberment of a country in Europe. It's shameful,” McCain said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “Vladimir Putin has not paid any price. Even the cease-fire was violated.”

“This is a shameful chapter. I'm ashamed of my country, I'm ashamed of my president, and I'm ashamed of myself that I haven't done more to help these people,” he added. “It is really, really heartbreaking.”

“Vladimir Putin wants Ukraine not to be part of Europe. And he is succeeding in doing so. He's put enormous pressure on the Baltics, not to mention Moldova and continued occupation of Georgia as well. This is really a dark chapter in the history of our alliance.”

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/233442-mccain-im-ashamed-of-my-country

Pretty well sums up my feelings towards Canada (and it's allies) as well.

Shame on us all.

Brass

Very good summary of what many of us feel.  I'm not ashamed of my country because I know if we had a leader in the White House Ukraine would have been armed to the teeth at least six months ago.  I am deeply ashamed of my "President" and I wonder what the US and the World did to deserve such a charlatan.

I don't think you should be at all ashamed of Canada because I suspect the Canadian people as a whole want Ukraine to be helped out.

I am extremely disappointed about the lack of leadership in Europe and I no longer hold Merkel in high regard.  I especially wonder why the Prime Minister of the UK is being silent right now as the UK is a signatory to the BM.

In your post above you stated the world can pay now or pay later.  It always seems to pan out this way but Obama doesn't seem to want to change his "legacy" for peace.  Unless he suddenly grows a pair.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 23, 2015, 06:48:38 PM
Nukes are not an option for Putin or Russia. He cannot win a preemptive strategic attack and if he/Russia were to deploy a tactical nuke the response would be the same.


Putin has quickly went from possible dictator to rabid mad dog status. Is he crazy enough to launch one is the question you should be asking yourself. If that answer is yes even for a second, "Houston, we have a problem". Nobody will win in the event of an attack preemptive  or not either from Russia or the U.S. It's truly doomsday. Putin must be dealt with delicately but, with might. It's all he will respond to. I personally think he will not hesitate to over play his hand.

I don't follow you here.  It's game over for Putin?  Or game over for the World?  Who is it game over for?

Not than any of us want Nuclear war but I believe the US is in a much better position to "win" that confrontation.

I can see Moscow smoldering in ruins right now and 20% of the Russian population gone forever.

Game over for everybody. One missile detected from either East or West and hundreds or thousands of them will be raining down on both continents. Once the first one flies and whether you're sending it or receiving it, you'd better be going for broke and send all you have


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 23, 2015, 06:50:41 PM

IMHO, the only card the U.S. can play at this point is to arm Ukraine to the teeth and assist any country willing to help Ukraine. U.S. boots on the ground even through NATO or the UN isn't an option. Any military confrontation directly between the U.S. and Russia will still bring the world to the brink. I'm not willing to risk that, are you?

Nukes are not an option for Putin or Russia. He cannot win a preemptive strategic attack and if he/Russia were to deploy a tactical nuke the response would be the same.

Exactly, arm Ukraine to the teeth and use contractors to train them or partner countries like Canada, Australia or the UK.

I'm of the opinion we're already in a "pay now or pay later" situation. Direct confrontation is inevitable, whether U.S. or NATO. If not stopped now sooner or later Putin will go all in on either Ukraine or some other FSU country.

I doubt anything will happen until Washington has a new administration though. Obama's trying desperately to finish his term without becoming involved in a major European war.

A lot of people are going to die while he tries to save what's left of his presidency and legacy.

Some say Ukraine cannot defeat Russia militarily. That is the wrong question. The right question is: If we help Ukrainians increase the military cost to the Russian forces that have invaded their country, how long can Putin sustain a war that he tells his people is not happening?” McCain said during the same conference."

http://www.stripes.com/news/us-inching-toward-sending-arms-to-ukraine-1.331182

This has always been the 'right question'. Further, Ukraine has not been the pushover Putin assumed it was going to be (no thanks to the EU, NATO or the US). Ukraine may well end up being Putin's Afghanistan.

Brass

Brass makes all the right points. The risk is in not doing enough NOW.
As Brass says-- do something now or pay for that inaction later. The actions now need to be decisive and substantial.
So to answer FP's question-- any hint of not being completely committed here by the US will incite Putin-- so my answer is in theory -yes. Not making it clear to Putin will send the wrong message-so making it really clear the gloves are right off is important-as I said-- bully the bully.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Chelseaboy on February 23, 2015, 07:01:53 PM
Cameron has a general election to worry about in May..so it's doubtful he wants to get too involved in Ukraine matters right now.

When questioned recently about the Russian bombers buzzing the UK,his feeble response was to say the bombers weren't actually in UK airspace,and our Typhoons saw them off anyway.

The fact that Putler is being aggressive toward the UK,testing our defenses while we meekly accept it, seems to have passed him by.

Still, he's proud to have given the go-ahead to gay marriages in the UK..no wonder Putler gives us the finger, he probably considers us as a bunch of soft wimps there for the taking....and certainly no threat to him.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 23, 2015, 07:03:25 PM
Putin has quickly went from possible dictator to rabid mad dog status. Is he crazy enough to launch one is the question you should be asking yourself. If that answer is yes even for a second, "Houston, we have a problem". Nobody will win in the event of an attack preemptive  or not either from Russia or the U.S. It's truly doomsday. Putin must be dealt with delicately but, with might. It's all he will respond to. I personally think he will not hesitate to over play his hand.

Game over for everybody. One missile detected from either East or West and hundreds or thousands of them will be raining down on both continents. Once the first one flies and whether you're sending it or receiving it, you'd better be going for broke and send all you have

I suppose I am under the impression that the USA is capable of shooting down Russian nukes before they reach the American continent.

Russia most definitely does not have that capability.  Would one or two Russian nukes slip through?  Well I really don't know and I doubt if any of us normal people do.  But I am banking on American superiority in this regard.

IIRC it was poster Brasscasing who raised the issue that Russia's nukes are not as capable as Putin's saber rattling.

Certainly if only one got through it would be an epic catastrophe for the city hit, but as we know from WWII even a small island nation like Japan can eventually get back to normal and those outside the blast area are often not at all affected.

Some might think it "crazy" to speculate but we are dealing with a "man" who keeps posturing so I'm sure our war guys at the Pentagon have played out all sorts of scenarios.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 23, 2015, 07:07:10 PM

Still, he's proud to have given the go-ahead to gay marriages in the UK..no wonder Putler gives us the finger, he probably considers us as a bunch of soft wimps there for the taking....and certainly no threat to him.

Well he's deeply deeply wrong and because he's an arrogant fool he's going to find out the hard way.

Look for a military confrontation in 2017 and when it's Canada, the British and the USA against that foolish little tyrant he's going to commit suicide in a bunker to avoid being hung by a wire by his own people.

This is the confrontation he really wants with the West and in due time he's going to get it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on February 23, 2015, 07:35:58 PM
Nukes are not an option for Putin or Russia. He cannot win a preemptive strategic attack and if he/Russia were to deploy a tactical nuke the response would be the same.

Exactly, arm Ukraine to the teeth and use contractors to train them or partner countries like Canada, Australia or the UK.

I'm of the opinion we're already in a "pay now or pay later" situation. Direct confrontation is inevitable, whether U.S. or NATO. If not stopped now sooner or later Putin will go all in on either Ukraine or some other FSU country.

I doubt anything will happen until Washington has a new administration though. Obama's trying desperately to finish his term without becoming involved in a major European war.

A lot of people are going to die while he tries to save what's left of his presidency and legacy.

Some say Ukraine cannot defeat Russia militarily. That is the wrong question. The right question is: If we help Ukrainians increase the military cost to the Russian forces that have invaded their country, how long can Putin sustain a war that he tells his people is not happening?” McCain said during the same conference."

http://www.stripes.com/news/us-inching-toward-sending-arms-to-ukraine-1.331182

This has always been the 'right question'. Further, Ukraine has not been the pushover Putin assumed it was going to be (no thanks to the EU, NATO or the US). Ukraine may well end up being Putin's Afghanistan.

Brass

brass , well written , i totally agree especially with the pay now or pay later scenario,

as much as people might not want to admit it , we will be asked to pay at some time , if we wish to keep mr putin under control

it will be less the sooner we tackle the problem imho ,
if putin is alowed to keep growing his military , the cost to us all will be much higher
 
SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 23, 2015, 07:58:17 PM
Good words everyone.

How should we react to Putin's nuke threats? 

Thank you in advance.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 23, 2015, 08:06:21 PM

How should we react to Putin's nuke threats? 

 Minsk III, IV, V VI VII ect. :(
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on February 23, 2015, 08:13:16 PM
Minsk III, IV, V VI VII ect. :(

mike is that how we should react ??or how we will react ??

id bloody well hope it wont go to a minsk mark III & some decisisve action was taken much sooner to help ukraine
SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 23, 2015, 08:27:25 PM
Minsk III, IV, V VI VII ect. :(

Given this year's crop of leaders . . . I have to agree.

The only thing I will say at the expense of being a propaganda hype man is that Chechens won the First Chechen War using outdated weapons by turning Grozny into a cauldron. . . . but that maybe wishful thinking.  All I have is my prayers
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 23, 2015, 09:19:44 PM
SX, You know as well as I do that this isn't the way it should be handled but myopic batch of wannabe's in the leadership role, I'm not dismissing this.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 23, 2015, 09:24:35 PM
SX, You know as well as I do that this isn't the way it should be handled but myopic batch of wannabe's in the leadership role, I'm not dismissing this.

Yep.  +1.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2015, 07:15:24 AM
I just so happened to be browsing the internet this morning and I noticed the Ruble was around 63 to the dollar and the Ukrainian currency has jumped  all the way up to 32.5...a jump over over 4 times it rate as of 13 months ago.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 10:48:33 AM
Putin has quickly went from possible dictator to rabid mad dog status. Is he crazy enough to launch one is the question you should be asking yourself. If that answer is yes even for a second, "Houston, we have a problem". Nobody will win in the event of an attack preemptive  or not either from Russia or the U.S. It's truly doomsday. Putin must be dealt with delicately but, with might. It's all he will respond to. I personally think he will not hesitate to over play his hand.

It's more along the lines of 'ambition' vs. 'ability' to my thinking. If Putin thought he could win a nuclear exchange he'd already be overtly threatening the civilized world with armageddon instead of just veiled references to not messing with Russia because it's got nucs.

However, should the U.S. or NATO ever find itself occupying Russian soil then I'd say the risk of his deploying, or over playing his hand as you worded it, would increase exponentially.

Your point is taken though. When dealing with Moscow's mad dog 'crazy' should never be discounted.

Brass





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 24, 2015, 11:56:58 AM
How reliable is his nuclear arsenal?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on February 24, 2015, 12:12:52 PM
If 10% of a nuclear arsenal is effective, that's enough for complete disaster.

“The Americans are trying to draw the Russian Federation into an interstate military conflict, to achieve regime change through the events in Ukraine and to ultimately dismember our country,” said Nikolai Patrushev, who heads the Kremlin’s security council.'

What does this mean? I'm remembering when Putin stated that he 'respects' the elections of Ukraine. ...so just another Putin Lie? And the biggest lie continues- 'Russia does not have military in Ukraine'. This lie makes Putin look insane. An insane person with nuclear missiles? The phrase, 'dismember our country'? Does that refer to Russia or Ukraine? Does Putin think Ukraine IS Russia? If Ukraine is its own country, then ironically, Putin is dismembering Ukraine in Donbas and Crimea.

article here:
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-tensions-hit-boiling-point-111500889.html


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 24, 2015, 12:34:37 PM

(Gee who supplies arms to the UAE?  :clapping: Deniability factor !)

Poroshenko agrees on supply of UAE weapons to Ukraine

Ukraine and the United Arab Emirates have agreed to cooperate in the supply of weapons and military equipment, advisor to the Interior Ministry Anton Herashchenko wrote on his Facebook page on Tuesday.

According to Herashchenko, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko met with the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the UAE Armed Forces, Colonel-General Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan.

"During the meeting the parties agreed to cooperate with the United Arab Emirates in the supply of certain weapons and military equipment to Ukraine," Herashchenko said.

"However, the types and volumes of these supplies will not be disclosed yet," he said.

"However, it is worth noting that the Arabs, unlike the Europeans and Americans, are not afraid of Putin’s threats to unleash a third world war in the case of supplies of arms and military equipment being made to Ukraine," Herashchenko said.


Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1047968-poroshenko-agrees-on-supply-of-uae-weapons.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 12:38:26 PM
How reliable is his nuclear arsenal?

Depends on how much tritium Russia's been able to acquire/produce.

You won't read about it but it's my opinion that's why Putin was in India at the end of last year and why Obama was right behind him.

Again my opinion however India produces tritium and the U.S. wanted to make sure the India/Russia deal didn't include that particular isotope.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 24, 2015, 12:45:29 PM

Moody's lowered the ratings of a number of financial institutions Russia

The rating agency Moody's downgraded the ratings of some of the largest financial institutions in Russia. The decision concerns Sberbank, VTB , Gazprombank, Russian Agricultural Bank, HMLA, Vnesheconombank and Alfa Bank.

Long-term ratings of Sberbank and VTB Bank in the national currency reduced from Baa3 to Ba1, in foreign currency - from Ba1 to Ba2.

Long-term ratings of Gazprombank, Russian Agricultural Bank and Alpha Bank in national and foreign currencies dropped from Ba1 to Ba2. Long-term ratings of VEB and HMLA reduced from Baa3 to Ba1.
http://mignews.com.ua/sobitiya/inworld/4943673.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 12:56:23 PM
(Gee who supplies arms to the UAE?  :clapping: Deniability factor !)

Poroshenko agrees on supply of UAE weapons to Ukraine

Ukraine and the United Arab Emirates have agreed to cooperate in the supply of weapons and military equipment, advisor to the Interior Ministry Anton Herashchenko wrote on his Facebook page on Tuesday.

According to Herashchenko, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko met with the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the UAE Armed Forces, Colonel-General Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan.

"During the meeting the parties agreed to cooperate with the United Arab Emirates in the supply of certain weapons and military equipment to Ukraine," Herashchenko said.

"However, the types and volumes of these supplies will not be disclosed yet," he said.

"However, it is worth noting that the Arabs, unlike the Europeans and Americans, are not afraid of Putin’s threats to unleash a third world war in the case of supplies of arms and military equipment being made to Ukraine," Herashchenko said.


Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1047968-poroshenko-agrees-on-supply-of-uae-weapons.html

Great news! Finally, a country willing to assist with real aid.

Putin will be displeased. I wonder how long it'll take for Merkel and Hollande to book their flights to Abu Dhabi...

More from the WSJ...

Ukraine to Buy ‘Defensive’ Weapons in U.A.E., President Says

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-president-meets-u-a-e-officials-to-secure-weapons-purchase-1424788248

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 24, 2015, 01:25:59 PM
I suppose I am under the impression that the USA is capable of shooting down Russian nukes before they reach the American continent.




This is exactly what a lot of Neocons believe.


Exactly the same as Saddam had WMD, the Iraqis were going to receive the Americans with open arms, and Iraq's oil revenues were going to pay for Ws little excursion in the middle east.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 24, 2015, 01:28:53 PM
Great news! Finally, a country willing to assist with real aid.

Putin will be displeased. I wonder how long it'll take for Merkel and Hollande to book their flights to Abu Dhabi...

More from the WSJ...

Ukraine to Buy ‘Defensive’ Weapons in U.A.E., President Says

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-president-meets-u-a-e-officials-to-secure-weapons-purchase-1424788248 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-president-meets-u-a-e-officials-to-secure-weapons-purchase-1424788248)

Brass


Agree.


Finally, the US a friendly nation like the UAE is supplying weapons to Ukraine.  :clapping:


Brass, just like the oil glut and the precipitous drop in the price of crude by those "Saudis."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 02:31:09 PM

Agree.


Finally, the US a friendly nation like the UAE is supplying weapons to Ukraine.  :clapping:


Brass, just like the oil glut and the precipitous drop in the price of crude by those "Saudis."

You're a cynical guy, Muzh. :P

What's interesting about this is France is the predominate supplier of the UAE military machine followed by the US, UK and Turkey. China, Sweden and several other countries are also contributors/suppliers.

Wouldn't that just pucker Putin's pooper if Ukraine ended up being supplied with Chinese equipment.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 03:30:56 PM
So curiosity peaked I go looking on the net for what's China been up to news and find this...

Ukraine considers use of Chinese loans
Posted 24 February 2015 12:38 GMT

..."Ukraine is holding negotiations with China to expand the use of a $3.6 billion loan to projects in the oil and gas sector, Deputy Energy and Coal Industry Minister Igor Didenko told Interfax."...

http://interfaxenergy.com/gasdaily/article/15355/ukraine-considers-use-of-chinese-loans

Ukraine hopes to spend Chinese loan money on building interconnection gas pipelines

..."Ukraine is holding talks on using credit funds from the China Development Bank to finance the construction of interconnection gas pipelines with Poland, chief adviser to Board Chairman of Naftogaz Ukrainy Serniy Alekseyenko has said."...

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraine-hopes-to-spend-chinese-loan-money-on-building-interconnection-gas-pipelines-381601.html

Uh, wasn't it just a few months ago the pro Putinists were crowing the 'special' relationship between Russia and China? And wasn't it the sane among us who were replying that the Chinese played their own game and there was never going to be an advantage to Russia with any business/trade deals?

So, if I'm reading these news articles correctly, China is now financing Ukraine to become less dependent on Russian natural gas....that's hilarious...but predictable.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 24, 2015, 03:39:50 PM
China has a vested interest in UA for grains and other commodities that have been in place before this invasion. They're covering their investments.  :clapping:

 I doubt that they've got much cash invested in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 24, 2015, 03:46:16 PM
Great news! Finally, a country willing to assist with real aid.

Putin will be displeased.


Well that will just give Putin the green light to do likewise (openly) in east Ukraine. He'll match whatever the west does and life will get even worse for Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 03:47:27 PM
China has a vested interest in UA for grains and other commodities that have been in place before this invasion. They're covering their investments.  :clapping:

 I doubt that they've got much cash invested in Russia.

Never mind the grain. China has their eye on the real prize.  ;D ...

Ukrainian Brides May Solve China’s Gender Gap, Chinese Media Claims

..."The 34 million extra men pose serious social risks, but some just see a matchmaking bonanza."...

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/28/ukrainian-brides-may-solve-chinas-gender-gap-chinese-media-claims/

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 03:55:05 PM

Well that will just give Putin the green light to do likewise (openly) in east Ukraine. He'll match whatever the west does and life will get even worse for Ukraine.

Putin's pouring men and equipment into Ukraine anyways, green light or not.

Besides, I don't buy into appeasement at any cost and neither does Ukraine. Ask the Ukrainian population whether or not they'd prefer to defend themselves or be crushed under the marching jackboots of the Russian military machine.

Bet you won't like the answer. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 24, 2015, 06:02:47 PM
Putin's pouring men and equipment into Ukraine anyways, green light or not.

Besides, I don't buy into appeasement at any cost and neither does Ukraine. Ask the Ukrainian population whether or not they'd prefer to defend themselves or be crushed under the marching jackboots of the Russian military machine.

It's an escalation.




Bet you won't like the answer. ;)

Brass


It's no skin off my nose.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 06:25:43 PM
It's an escalation.


Russia escalated when it invaded. The west/NATO/US should have evened the field last year. Help for Ukraine has been far too long in coming.


It's no skin off my nose.

Good, then you won't mind if 45 million plus Ukrainians can finally start defending themselves.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 24, 2015, 06:38:52 PM
It's an escalation.


Much less of an escalation that the huilomeister sending more columns of fresh tanks, APC's and troops into Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2015, 07:29:00 PM
It's an escalation.



I'd also say it is a slight escalation on the West's part...probably right on the border of enough of an escalation to prompt another Russian escalation....which then may 'require' another Western escalation....which may 'require' another Russian escalation.   Stakes gonna get high....I'm curious if/when Russia decides to go headlong into this thing and start taking what they want right away. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on February 24, 2015, 07:54:58 PM

I'd also say it is a slight escalation on the West's part...probably right on the border of enough of an escalation to prompt another Russian escalation....which then may 'require' another Western escalation....which may 'require' another Russian escalation.   Stakes gonna get high....I'm curious if/when Russia decides to go headlong into this thing and start taking what they want right away. 


Fathertime!

Finally an american voice of reality and sanity!

Yes, Kremlin just keeps swallowing insult after insult. Putin should really get the Nobel peace price for being so persistent in search of Peace. Alas, Washington wants war and it's now up to Germany and France if they want to obey the orders from the neocons in Washington and damage their own economies as well as risk WW3, or if they want to come to a real agreement With Moscow and thus make a final break With US hegemony over the world. It's an easy Choice for a normal person, but a difficult one for a Group of psycopaths.......
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 24, 2015, 08:03:54 PM
No, he is a conspiracy theorist with a lack of understanding of the history of the region.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on February 24, 2015, 08:06:29 PM
Finally an american voice of reality and sanity!

Yes, Kremlin just keeps swallowing insult after insult. Putin should really get the Nobel peace price for being so persistent in search of Peace. Alas, Washington wants war and it's now up to Germany and France if they want to obey the orders from the neocons in Washington and damage their own economies as well as risk WW3, or if they want to come to a real agreement With Moscow and thus make a final break With US hegemony over the world. It's an easy Choice for a normal person, but a difficult one for a Group of psycopaths.......

Your beginning to sound like a basket case!  Step back and see the big picture...
1.  Ukraine is a sovereign state with borders recognized by the international community for many years.   FACT #1
2.  Russia invaded and annexed Crimea.  There would have been no invasion and annexation if Russia had minded it's own business.  FACT #2
3.  Russia sent troops and military weaponry into Eastern Ukraine to fight the legal and legitimate government of Ukraine.  FACT #3

Do you have any sense of right and wrong?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2015, 08:14:39 PM
No, he is a conspiracy theorist with a lack of understanding of the history of the region.


You are mislabeling in an effort to discredit.  If anything you have shown yourself to be VERY biased, and perhaps even hate-filled. 


Many people (including Western leaders) are concerned about escalating for the very reason that it will prompt a further escalation from Russia.  If i'm a 'conspiracy theorist' for thinking along those lines, then so be it...but don't forget to also label many of the Western representatives as well. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on February 24, 2015, 08:22:19 PM
No, he is a conspiracy theorist with a lack of understanding of the history of the region.

On the contrary. He's a brilliant mind With Perfect understanding of the history of Ukraine, as well as the rest of the universe and everything in between. Just like you Boethius.

Your beginning to sound like a basket case!  Step back and see the big picture...

Do you have any sense of right and wrong?


Basket case, me? That's coming from a + 70 year old  in leather pants chasing young Girls? How on Earth do you think Im gonna take Your  serious?
And on top of that question
 my sense of right and wrong? Wherever do they dig up like that? Well, as he's a rather old idiot, I Guess it's easier......
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2015, 08:34:02 PM
Your beginning to sound like a basket case!  Step back and see the big picture...
1.  Ukraine is a sovereign state with borders recognized by the international community for many years.   FACT #1
2.  Russia invaded and annexed Crimea.  There would have been no invasion and annexation if Russia had minded it's own business.  FACT #2
3.  Russia sent troops and military weaponry into Eastern Ukraine to fight the legal and legitimate government of Ukraine.  FACT #3

Do you have any sense of right and wrong?


I don't think you are seeing the big picture yourself.  If you think Russia participation in Ukraine is the BIG picture you are mistaken...this is only a small part of the larger picture....at least that is how Russia likely views it. 


It is interesting how our sins (The USA) and other western nation's sins are forgiven/minimized and chuckled over...while a Russian sin is potentially blown up into a wider war.   If we are able to force regime change in various countries, then other powerful nations are bound to do the same. 
[size=78%]  [/size]


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on February 24, 2015, 08:35:35 PM
On the contrary. He's a brilliant mind With Perfect understanding of the history of Ukraine, as well as the rest of the universe and everything in between. Just like you Boethius.

Basket case, me? That's coming from a + 70 year old in leather pants chasing young Girls? How on Earth do you think Im gonna take You for serious?
And on top of that question
 my sense of right and wrong? Wherever do they dig up like that? Well, as he's a rather old idiot, I Guess it's easier......

Well, we see your drunk on your ass again.
Sorry, I don't wear leather pants and I don't chase young Girls!  My wife is over 40.
I'll pass off your insults as it shows your character more than mine.

BTW, are you still fighting against vaccinating your children and holding them at risk to disease?

BTW, you never explained your perception of right and wrong concerning the Russian invasion and occupation, instead you deflected the issue as usual.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on February 24, 2015, 08:37:30 PM
Putin should really get the Nobel peace price for being so persistent in search of Peace.

 Putin launched this invasion of a sovereign country and he is persistent in search of peace?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2015, 08:38:29 PM

I'll pass off your insults as it shows your character more than mine.

BTW, are you still fighting against vaccinating your children and holding them at risk to disease?
 


You say you will 'pass off' insults...and the very next sentence you try to bait him.   Notice how that is a little hypocritical?  :rolleyes:


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 24, 2015, 08:42:07 PM
Good, then you won't mind if 45 million plus Ukrainians can finally start defending themselves.


Why would I mind? I'm actually neutral on this. I get no joy from people getting killed and injured in a war. I've been saying that Russia considers Ukraine to be its backyard and will fight over it. When you start bringing in foreign troops to fight for Ukraine then you're begging for a war and you'll get one.


The thing is Russia wants UA a LOT more than the EU or the US does which is why the EU and US are paying it a lot of lip service and agitating but not really doing anything. It gives the appearance of concern without the commitment.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 24, 2015, 08:42:12 PM
Quote
On the contrary. He's a brilliant mind With Perfect understanding of the history of Ukraine, as well as the rest of the universe and everything in between. Just like you Boethius.


I have never stated I have a brilliant mind, nor a perfect understanding of Ukraine's history, nor the universe.  But, as you hold me in such contempt, don't bother answering my posts.  I won't respond.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 24, 2015, 08:43:50 PM

You are mislabeling in an effort to discredit.  If anything you have shown yourself to be VERY biased, and perhaps even hate-filled. 


Many people (including Western leaders) are concerned about escalating for the very reason that it will prompt a further escalation from Russia.  If i'm a 'conspiracy theorist' for thinking along those lines, then so be it...but don't forget to also label many of the Western representatives as well. 


Fathertime!


Hate filled?  My children all have Russian surnames.  Yours do not. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2015, 08:50:02 PM

Hate filled?  My children all have Russian surnames.  Yours do not.
Irrelevant. 



Why would I mind? I'm actually neutral on this. I get no joy from people getting killed and injured in a war. I've been saying that Russia considers Ukraine to be its backyard and will fight over it. When you start bringing in foreign troops to fight for Ukraine then you're begging for a war and you'll get one.

 


I agree with that 4-square!   



 

The thing is Russia wants UA a LOT more than the EU or the US does which is why the EU and US are paying it a lot of lip service and agitating but not really doing anything. It gives the appearance of concern without the commitment.


Hopefully you are right on that one...thus far it has been the case....not that there shouldn't be costs, just not the types of costs people here are begging for...this should be a relatively minor regional issue, and shouldn't be blown into a war with global consequences. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 24, 2015, 08:52:03 PM
No, it is not irrelevant to your baseless accusation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2015, 08:53:38 PM
No, it is not irrelevant to your baseless accusation.


actually you don't know what my earlier statement was in reference to... :-*


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 24, 2015, 08:55:19 PM
Well, I can only go by what you post. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 24, 2015, 09:07:32 PM
Irrelevant. 


Just like all your constant reminders to us of "I just so happened to be browsing the internet this morning blah...blah...blah..."?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2015, 09:11:31 PM
Just like all your constant reminders to us of "I just so happened to be browsing the internet this morning blah...blah...blah..."?
:D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 24, 2015, 09:43:01 PM
This is a very bad day for Putin's supporters in the EU.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 24, 2015, 09:49:40 PM
This is a very bad day for Putin's supporters in the EU.


Because of 75 British troops?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 10:07:19 PM

Why would I mind? I'm actually neutral on this. I get no joy from people getting killed and injured in a war. I've been saying that Russia considers Ukraine to be its backyard and will fight over it. When you start bringing in foreign troops to fight for Ukraine then you're begging for a war and you'll get one.


The thing is Russia wants UA a LOT more than the EU or the US does which is why the EU and US are paying it a lot of lip service and agitating but not really doing anything. It gives the appearance of concern without the commitment.

Not according to your last 50 or so posts.

Well then a fight is more than likely what the Russian's will get because right now  Ukraine already has foreign soldiers in their country. They're called Russians.

Ah but there's that pesky little UAE willing to supply Ukraine with the means to defend itself.

Maybe the west will continue to pay lip service and do nothing...maybe not. Stay tuned.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 24, 2015, 10:49:49 PM

Because of 75 British troops?

Where did I say that?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 24, 2015, 11:04:26 PM
Not according to your last 50 or so posts.

Phooey, I get irritated with you asshats howling for peoples blood. Makes you sound just like Bendara. If anyone says anything that isn't 'Death to Russians' and describe in detail how all Russians should be murdered then they're Putin apologists and will be harangued forever. Makes me want to cheer for Putin just to watch that vein pop out of your foreheads.



Ah but there's that pesky little UAE willing to supply Ukraine with the means to defend itself.


I suspect that the US would SELL UA weapons but their credit is in the pooper so if the UAE wants to donate weapons that we SOLD to them then wonderful.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 24, 2015, 11:07:14 PM
Where did I say that?


You didn't. You also didn't say why it's a bad day for Putin supporters.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on February 24, 2015, 11:16:20 PM
Phooey, I get irritated with you asshats howling for peoples blood.

Sort of like the Russian terrorists in East Ukraine howling for Ukraine blood, isn't it?

Makes you sound just like Bendara. If anyone says anything that isn't 'Death to Russians' and describe in detail how all Russians should be murdered then they're Putin apologists and will be harangued forever. Makes me want to cheer for Putin just to watch that vein pop out of your foreheads.

Sounds like your the one getting all steamed up STEAMER.     :D



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on February 24, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
Sounds like your the one getting all steamed up STEAMER.    


Yeah, I can take it for a while and then I get on a total grump.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 24, 2015, 11:24:45 PM
Phooey, I get irritated with you asshats howling for peoples blood. Makes you sound just like Bendara. If anyone says anything that isn't 'Death to Russians' and describe in detail how all Russians should be murdered then they're Putin apologists and will be harangued forever. Makes me want to cheer for Putin just to watch that vein pop out of your foreheads.

Bandera wasn't anti Russian.  He was anti Soviet.  His pact with the Germans lasted exactly one week longer than did Stalin's.  But, unlike Stalin, Bandera ended up in a German concentration camp.

Many of your posts give the appearance of cheering Russian actions in Ukraine, which includes the death of Ukrainian soldiers.  So, it's a two way street.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 24, 2015, 11:50:27 PM
Phooey, I get irritated with you asshats howling for peoples blood. Makes you sound just like Bendara. If anyone says anything that isn't 'Death to Russians' and describe in detail how all Russians should be murdered then they're Putin apologists and will be harangued forever. Makes me want to cheer for Putin just to watch that vein pop out of your foreheads.


And I'm just as irritated with you asshat Putin apologists denying that there is already innocent Ukrainian blood being spilled by a murderous dictator. Makes you sound just like Stalin.

I will always oppose the criminal invasion of Georgia and Ukraine and whatever it takes to expel these vicious assassins you support from both countries is what I endorse.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You're a punk troll posting snarky sh*t to get a reaction. The comical thing is you're just not that good at it. 

I suspect that the US would SELL UA weapons but their credit is in the pooper so if the UAE wants to donate weapons that we SOLD to them then wonderful.

Ukraine acquiring the means to defend itself upsets you, eh? Good. Here's hoping the US/Canada lends them the money for procurement then forgives the loan.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on February 25, 2015, 12:07:23 AM
brass , agree totally

people need to get their  head up and do some critical thinking about what putin has done to date

Quote
steamer ... When you start bringing in foreign russian troops to fight for in Ukraine then you're begging for a war and you'll get one.

ftfy mate ,
mr putin started this aggression off , in time im sure his role in the snipers on maiden will be fully revealed , his actions show his intent ,

ours must match his IMO , if he is to be stopped

SX

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 25, 2015, 12:33:11 AM
Finally an american voice of reality and sanity!

Yes, Kremlin just keeps swallowing insult after insult. Putin should really get the Nobel peace price for being so persistent in search of Peace. Alas, Washington wants war and it's now up to Germany and France if they want to obey the orders from the neocons in Washington and damage their own economies as well as risk WW3, or if they want to come to a real agreement With Moscow and thus make a final break With US hegemony over the world. It's an easy Choice for a normal person, but a difficult one for a Group of psycopaths.......

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Yes I agree, anyone who makes a deal with Putin is a psychopath.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 25, 2015, 12:35:46 AM
Well, we see your drunk on your ass again.
Sorry, I don't wear leather pants and I don't chase young Girls!  My wife is over 40.
I'll pass off your insults as it shows your character more than mine.

BTW, are you still fighting against vaccinating your children and holding them at risk to disease?


He's doing that?  He's not only a conspiracy theory believer of the greatest magnitude, he's very foolish. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 25, 2015, 12:38:12 AM
Phooey, I get irritated with you asshats howling for peoples blood. Makes you sound just like Bendara. If anyone says anything that isn't 'Death to Russians'

People would not be wanting Russians dead if they were not in Ukraine killing people and stealing land that does not belong to them. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 25, 2015, 06:42:10 AM

You didn't. You also didn't say why it's a bad day for Putin supporters.

Browse the internet to find out why

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on February 25, 2015, 02:35:42 PM
And I'm just as irritated with you asshat Putin apologists denying that there is already innocent Ukrainian blood being spilled by a murderous dictator. Makes you sound just like Stalin.



Nope, nope, nope. Makes him sound like Walter Duranty, the man who constantly licked Stalin's scrotum.




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 25, 2015, 03:29:40 PM
The UAE-Ukraine Defence Deal

( Note, I was surprised to learn the UAE produces their own arms. See the link)

Yesterday Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko announced that the United Arab Emirates and Ukraine had reached a deal whereby the Arab State would cooperate militarily – thus theoretically paving the way for the UAE to send arms to Ukraine.

President Poroshenko making sure to keep strictly to the script of defensive weaponry only stated – “I want to stress that we increase the defensive capabilities of the Ukrainian army only for better defend our territory – to keep our independence, to keep our territorial integrity, to keep our sovereignty. I do not have any plans to attack anybody. I am a president of peace, and we are a country of peace. But to keep the peace, we should have an ability to defend ourselves.”
 http://www.odessatalk.com/2015/02/the-uae-ukraine-defence-deal/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on February 25, 2015, 05:46:50 PM
Why would I mind? I'm actually neutral on this. I get no joy from people getting killed and injured in a war.

Glad to hear it.

I've been saying that Russia considers Ukraine to be its backyard and will fight over it.

Why now?  It seems hypocritically strange that Russia left Ukraine alone for more than 20 years after the breakup of the Soviet Union, and only decided to take action after its own puppet President fled the country.

When you start bringing in foreign troops to fight for Ukraine then you're begging for a war and you'll get one.

Who said anything about foreign troops fighting for Ukraine?  Great Britain has offered 75 soldiers, but I don't see them being deployed to the front line.  All that Poroshenko has asked for is help in defending his country - for example, equipment that his own forces can be trained to use if they don't already know how.  In any case, as foreign troops are fighting AGAINST Ukraine, why shouldn't other foreign troops fight FOR Ukraine?  Alliances happen in every other war.

The thing is Russia wants UA a LOT more than the EU or the US does which is why the EU and US are paying it a lot of lip service and agitating but not really doing anything. It gives the appearance of concern without the commitment.

True - unfortunately.

While I agree to some extent with some posters about how detrimental the US has been in some of its foreign endeavours, one thing it hasn't done for a long time is try to remap borders or annex territory to become part of the US itself.  If Putin was such a peacemaker he would surely withdraw his troops and leave Ukraine to pick up the pieces, having already achieved his aim of destabilising the country (and sending it close to bankruptcy).  However, I agree with so many other commenters that he has probably gone so far already that he would lose too much face amongst his own people if he pulled out now - and that, of course, is amongst the ones who count (i.e. those who actually know that there ARE Russian troops in Ukraine).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 25, 2015, 07:46:35 PM


ftfy mate ,
mr putin started this aggression off , in time im sure his role in the snipers on maiden will be fully revealed , his actions show his intent ,

ours must match his IMO , if he is to be stopped

SX


Sounds like you already have your mind made up before the evidence....not atypical.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 25, 2015, 08:32:45 PM
True - unfortunately.

People are getting tired of the Russian President's nonsense
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on February 25, 2015, 08:41:54 PM

Sounds like you already have your mind made up before the evidence....not atypical.


Fathertime!

FT,

you still on here banging away at your little keyboard  hey ??
bloody hell  ;D   ,

keep bashing them little keys if it gives you enjoyment  :( :( :( :(, thats a good fellow  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 25, 2015, 08:47:29 PM
FT,

you still on here banging away at your little keyboard  hey ??
bloody hell  ;D   ,

keep bashing them little keys if it gives you enjoyment  :( :( :( :( , thats a good fellow  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

SX


Thank you...I shall do just that!



I doubt my keyboard is smaller than yours...


You did admit to having your mind made up though without the proof you are 'certain' is forthcoming though.   ;) ;) ;)


Fathertime!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on February 25, 2015, 10:37:04 PM
There's basically a civil war in Ukraine. You have most of the country interested in democracy, happy with the removal of Yanukovych, happy with the idea of fighting ingrained corruption and happy with the idea of eventually joining the EU. On the other hand, there is a minority of the population that yearns for the Soviet Union and doesn't care about freedom of speech, freedom to protest, and thinks Putin is a good leader. The majority want to progress towards the future while the other wants to regress back to a Soviet era. I think nationalists are in the majority. The elections have shown us that. Separatists are in the minority and here's the thing: Russia and their strong military support the separatist minority. It's out of balance. the Russian military is stronger than the Ukrainian military. The Ukrainians who support a united Ukraine are strongly motivated to keep the country together. To maintain a balance, the West must arm Ukraine now. Otherwise, military superiority will allow the separatist minority to expand their territory. In my opinion, the Ukrainian should act stronger in a more definitive way- draw a line. Tell the rebels that if they try to invade Mariupol, utilities to Donbas will be eliminated. Make the strong connection between military expansion and retaliatory reaction.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on February 25, 2015, 10:59:01 PM

You are mislabeling in an effort to discredit.  If anything you have shown yourself to be VERY biased, and perhaps even hate-filled. 


Many people (including Western leaders) are concerned about escalating for the very reason that it will prompt a further escalation from Russia.  If i'm a 'conspiracy theorist' for thinking along those lines, then so be it...but don't forget to also label many of the Western representatives as well. 


Fathertime!

Unfortunately, the West does need to stand up to the bully in the neighborhood. If not, the bully will continue to act without regard to international protests. What are the stakes for Russia? Is Putin doing this just to manipulate the support of the Russian people? What is the psychology of the war, of Putin's ambitions?

I see it this way: Putin is a neo-com. He is ex-KGB, ex-Soviet. So he's a glorified KGB/Soviet/King who sees the cradle of his Russian civilization, Kievan Rus, wanting to be a Western-styled democracy and preferring to trade with the EU.!!!!   For Putin this is a mind-f#k.  So his Russian bride- Ukraine, wants to be with another man instead, a western man. Or more accurately, Russia's Ukrainian possession, wants its freedom. Putin cannot handle the pscychology and maybe most Russians can't handle the idea of their cousins wanting a Western-style democracy, rather than Putin's pseudo-democracy. Putin's tanks represent his inability to accept his cousins' choice of an ideology contrary to his own. It's about ideology rather than the fake concept of a military threat from NATO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 26, 2015, 10:24:25 PM
There's basically a civil war in Ukraine. You have most of the country interested in democracy, happy with the removal of Yanukovych, happy with the idea of fighting ingrained corruption and happy with the idea of eventually joining the EU. On the other hand, there is a minority of the population that yearns for the Soviet Union and doesn't care about freedom of speech, freedom to protest, and thinks Putin is a good leader. The majority want to progress towards the future while the other wants to regress back to a Soviet era. I think nationalists are in the majority. The elections have shown us that. Separatists are in the minority and here's the thing: Russia and their strong military support the separatist minority. It's out of balance. the Russian military is stronger than the Ukrainian military. The Ukrainians who support a united Ukraine are strongly motivated to keep the country together. To maintain a balance, the West must arm Ukraine now. Otherwise, military superiority will allow the separatist minority to expand their territory. In my opinion, the Ukrainian should act stronger in a more definitive way- draw a line. Tell the rebels that if they try to invade Mariupol, utilities to Donbas will be eliminated. Make the strong connection between military expansion and retaliatory reaction.

NOT a civil war.  Your opening statement is wrong.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 27, 2015, 03:03:57 PM
8 Spaniards Arrested for Fighting in Eastern Ukraine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/8-spaniards-arrested-for-fighting-in-eastern-ukraine/516674.html

Moscow Man Wakes Up to Find His Testicles Stolen  :crackwhip:  [Tired of eating dirt?]  :rolleyes:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/moscow-man-wakes-up-to-find-his-testicles-stolen/516664.html

Moscow Police See Huge Spike in Confiscated Synthetic Marijuana
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/moscow-police-see-huge-spike-in-confiscated-synthetic-marijuana/516549.html

Russia to Take $50 Billion From Reserve Fund This Year to Plug Swelling Deficit
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-to-take-50-billion-from-reserve-fund-this-year-to-plug-swelling-deficit-/516659.html

Cash-Strapped Russia Eyes Giving China Control of Major Oil Fields
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/cash-strapped-russia-eyes-giving-china-control-of-major-oil-fields/516658.html

Austria's Raiffeisen Bank to Abandon Russian Far East Amid Economic Crisis
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/austria-s-raiffeisen-bank-to-abandon-russian-far-east-amid-economic-crisis/516653.html

Lithuania Moves to Replace Russian Gas With U.S. Supplies
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/lithuania-moves-to-replace-russian-gas-with-u-s-supplies/516655.html

Ruble Collapse Halves Profits at Russia's Novatek Gas Company
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ruble-collapse-halves-profits-at-russia-s-novatek-gas-company/516657.html

Russian Lawmakers Rebuked for Proposing End to Food Import Ban
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-lawmakers-rebuked-for-proposing-limits-to-putin-s-power-to-sanction-west/516669.html

Russia's Khodorkovsky: Putin Is a 'Naked King' Facing Economic Ruin
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-s-khodorkovsky-putin-is-a-naked-king-facing-economic-ruin/516637.html

Moody's junks all of Russia
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/economics/26-02-2015/129916-moodys_russia_rating-0/

Ruble collapse makes bribery more expensive for Russians
http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/27/news/economy/russia-bribes/

U.S. considering new sanctions against Russia: Violations of Minsk agreement continue
http://en.censor.net.ua/news/326475/us_considering_new_sanctions_against_russia_violations_of_minsk_agreement_continue

DNR terrorists economize by killing mercenaries
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/02/26/dnr-terrorists-economize-by-killing-mercenaries-journalist/

55% of Russians are preparing for the "black day"
http://world.lb.ua/news/2015/02/26/296905_55_rossiyan_gotovyatsya_chernomu.html

The Russian government has cut staff and costs by 10%
http://world.lb.ua/news/2015/02/25/296701_pravitelstvo_rossii_sokratit_shtat.html

Today we are dealing with quite a different Russia - Norway's Ine Eriksen Sereyde
http://uapress.info/ru/news/show/64165

German president will not attend the parade in Moscow on May 9
http://uapress.info/ru/news/show/64146

Estonians vote amid heightened concern about Russia threat
http://uatoday.tv/politics/estonians-vote-amid-heightened-concern-about-russia-threat-412226.html






















Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 27, 2015, 03:18:14 PM
A leading Russian opposition politician, former deputy Prime Minister Boris Nemtsov, has been shot dead in Moscow, Russian officials say.

An unidentified attacker shot Mr Nemtsov four times in central Moscow, a source in the law enforcement bodies told Russia's Interfax news agency.

He was shot near the Kremlin while walking with a woman, according to Russian-language news website Meduza.

"Several people" had got out of a car and shot him, it added.

Mr Nemtsov, 55, served as first deputy prime minister under the late President Boris Yeltsin in the 1990s.

He had earned a reputation as an economic reformer while governor of one of Russia's biggest cities, Nizhny Novgorod.

Falling out of favour with Yeltsin's successor, Vladimir Putin, Mr Nemtsov became an outspoken opposition politician.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31669061
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 27, 2015, 03:24:34 PM
Wow.  Sad.  Very sad.  But not at all shocking.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 27, 2015, 03:30:24 PM
That's too bad. He could have led Russia into a brighter future.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on February 27, 2015, 03:32:57 PM
Political assassination in Russia...it's a way of life... with a huge corps of killers awaiting orders from the 'power vertical'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 27, 2015, 03:34:46 PM
Not at all shocking? 

Shocking to me, anyone want to invest in Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 27, 2015, 03:43:14 PM
I've been working on that story, and must confess that neither am I surprised. I didn't expect it to be him, as I had thought the next target might be someone like Ilya Ponomarev, the only member of the Duma who had voted against the annexation of Crimea and opposes the war in Ukraine.

That would be too obvious however, and it could be that a message has been sent. One would bet that the opposition leadership has sat up to take notice. If there was a message intended, it would be that the only safe place to oppose the Kremlin is from outside of Russia.

Observation: Khodorkovsky may be onto something about the state of affairs.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 27, 2015, 05:59:07 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-opposition-leader-boris-nemtsov-shot-dead-moscow-220603814.html

Quote
Nemtsov, 55, was shot four times in the back

(http://russiapedia.rt.com/files/prominent-russians/politics-and-society/boris-nemtsov/boris-nemtsov_2-t.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 27, 2015, 10:43:07 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-opposition-leader-boris-nemtsov-shot-dead-moscow-220603814.html

(http://russiapedia.rt.com/files/prominent-russians/politics-and-society/boris-nemtsov/boris-nemtsov_2-t.jpg)

RIP to a very brave man and a true Russian patriot.

He was a former Deputy Prime Minister under Yeltsin.

It should be no surprise that his assassin shot him in the back.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 27, 2015, 11:34:01 PM
Age gap?  Interesting.  Allegedly the woman with him who survived was only 22 years old.  Was she used to help set him up?  Who knows for certain.  No doubt there are many unanswered questions.


http://twitter.com/hashtag/Nemtsov?src=hash
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 27, 2015, 11:53:22 PM
She is a citizen of Ukraine, and he was going to lead a protest of Russia's involvement in the Ukrainian conflict.  I would hazard a guess they were discussing the protest.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 28, 2015, 12:09:15 AM
She is a citizen of Ukraine, and he was going to lead a protest of Russia's involvement in the Ukrainian conflict.  I would hazard a guess they were discussing the protest.

Look at the photo posted on the bottom right corner of the 4 images on his twitter feed.  She's sucking his nipple with his shirt down, and I would "hazard to guess" she later went "down" lower.


edit to add:  The photo I mentioned has apparently been deleted from his twitter account.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 28, 2015, 12:15:48 AM
I don't see her.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on February 28, 2015, 02:47:22 AM
She is a citizen of Ukraine, and he was going to lead a protest of Russia's involvement in the Ukrainian conflict.  I would hazard a guess they were discussing the protest.

She is a model, Anna Duritskaya.  I doubt they were discussing the protest
(http://www.kiev-casting.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fotki_modeli/models2/durickaya-anna-2619-46161.jpg)

Strange things happen on  last day. Nemtsov become the sacred sacrifice in Moscow with 4 bullets in the back, Ukrainian known oppositionist Chechetov has fallen down in Kiev from 17-th floor. Both have lost any political weight and posed no threat to Kiev and Moscow authorities.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 28, 2015, 04:14:35 AM
Belvis, get a grip on reality, my friend.

What does a 24 year old hottie, from Kyiv, need to come to Moscow for a blow job with a 55 year old man?  Does Peskov have a monopoly on all the Moscow whores?

Despite all the bullshit being spun now by the pathetic morons at LifeNews, and inside the Kremlin press office, I find several things to be very interesting:

- I'd like to know what she was doing in Moscow.

- As Boris had returned from an interview on Echo Moscow radio (not your favourite station I will bet), why the stroll toward the Kremlin? Boris wasn't exactly the holder of an annual pass at the Kremlin fitness club, so why walk that direction, on that side of the bridge?

- Investigators can't seem to decide whether there were 8 shots, or 4. The main eyewitness was an out of town actress from Ukraine, who just happened not to get shot. By some miracle, despite all the supposed rush of sudden and violent surprise, she can't remember how many shots, but she can recite the license number on the white car! Does that not strike you as odd, or do you consider that unlike Russian broads, Ukrainian actresses are savants?

- As to the girl not being shot, do you think she was lucky? Paid to walk a certain path and direction while they talked? Are Russian hit men so good that they knew to shoot at vital organs with great accuracy, but yet so equally stupid that they'd leave her for an eyewitness?

- Does it seem odd to you that the shooting happened on the eve of one of the potentially largest protest rally's in several years?

- How stupid is the KGB/FSB these days? The security services can track Navalny when he leaves home without permission and catch him upon minutes after entering a Metro, yet they don't have a tail on the guy set to lead one of the biggest unsanctioned parades? Sure, Navalny has an electronic ankle bracelet, but is Putin's next move to put a GPS implant on every citizen because his goons have lost the ability to practice trade-craft?

- It is standard to take such a witness into protective custody. I understand that, but how the hell is LifeNews getting all the "facts" about her and their supposed relationship, while the rest of the media is being told that she is not ready for interviews?

- Oh, and why did the police raid Nemtsov's home, about the same time that president Putin was sending his condolences to the family? Your boy is all heart!

- Ah, those boxes of documents and computers that were removed from his home--what was that all about? Does the Investigative Service suspect that he may have planned his own murder? Is he his own suspect? Did he shoot himself 4 times, or was it 8 times, in the organs and then speed away in a white car, all the while laying there in a pool of blood?

- Why did Mr. Putin sign an executive order making himself the chief prosecutor on the case? If ole Boris was so damned unimportant, then why the living hell couldn't the case be passed off to some low level functionary?

- Just moments after naming himself to be in charge of the investigation, he and Peskov were waxing about the murder being the possible result of foreign influences. The motive of course was to pin blame on the nuns in the Kremlin. Really, is that how a chief prosecutor works? Wait, this is Russia so you don't have to answer that question.

- Which of course brings up the subject of Russian security: If they really believe that, then some teenage kid from Europe landing a plane on Red Square is small potatoes. You have bigger problems, my friend, if the security services from other nations are driving white cars around and shooting citizens who take walks with girls who can't remember the number of shots, but can recall a license place with multiple digits.

- Hint: have medical examiners count the number of damn holes. If they were so accurate, so good at a hit, then likely the number of holes will equal the number of shots. It ain't exactly rocket science. Of course, you might suggest to the chief investigator that he go out an make sure there aren't any overhead street lights with bullets in them. Just to make sure.

- Finally, regarding the LifeNews claim that "the West" had posted the story on Wikepedia an hour before the murder actually took place, you might also suggest to the chief prosecutor that he learn about "Western" time zones. Hell, have him do some research on who/when/where those purposed posts were made. Wiki is a self editing system, so it shouldn't be that hard.

- Belvis, welcome back to the wild west 90s. Is this going to be "chaos" all over again? I know that you understand what that means. So, who is next on the list?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on February 28, 2015, 06:17:53 AM
What does a 24 year old hottie, from Kyiv, need to come to Moscow for a blow job with a 55 year old man?  Does Peskov have a monopoly on all the Moscow whores?
You have taken a too  utilitarian approach. Nemtsov was a lady-killer, not a fucker.  4 children from 3 different women talk about his attitude, he loved money, women, power, enjoyed life in short.

Quote
- Belvis, welcome back to the wild west 90s. Is this going to be "chaos" all over again? I know that you understand what that means. So, who is next on the list?

No, those old good days of wild west have left in the past.  No any sign of chaos, though what you call chaos was close in reality to  freedom, depends on point of view.  To make any conclusions about the killing better to wait, I would not exclude any version except women and Putin.   Heavenly Hundred of Maidan has demonstrated the efficiency of provocations in political struggle, the new reality of our time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 28, 2015, 08:31:45 AM
Mendeleyev,
If you saw the photo I saw of her and Nemtsov together there would be no doubt that she was going to give him a blowjob.  He was leaning back on a sofa with his shirt down and her tongue was out, licking his left nipple.  She was more or less on her knees and elbows in the position already.  There was another woman off to his right who had a sneer on her face similar to the famous Sophia Loren sneer photo.  That woman was standing at a small table with a coffee or other drink. 

The photo disappeared a few minutes after I saw it on his twitter feed, so I don't know who deleted it or why somebody had access to his twitter feed after his death.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 28, 2015, 09:30:51 AM
OK, what is going on?

Do I have this correct?  The man is not in the grave and he is getting smeared?  Boris Nemtsov's killer is a spurned lover?

Well Belvis, better to be killed by a woman scorned than to be photographed with your college boyfriend.  FU Graham Phillips.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 28, 2015, 09:42:57 AM
If there was a message intended, it would be that the only safe place to oppose the Kremlin is from outside of Russia.



Putin critics have been assassinated outside of Russia too. UK and Ukraine are a couple of places Putin ordered hits. Luckily former Ukraine President Yushchenko survived his dose of radioactive poisoning. If he opened himself to getting bribe by Putin, I don't think that would happen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 28, 2015, 09:46:43 AM
So take the bribe and live?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 28, 2015, 12:20:37 PM
AC
Quote
If you saw the photo I saw of her and Nemtsov together there would be no doubt that she was going to give him a blowjob. 

That could have very well been the case. I did not see the photo, although he and I followed each other on Twitter.

I just have to wonder who would benefit most about posting it in the first place?

Then, who would benefit most by removing it?

When was it removed, in relation to the timeline of his murder?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 28, 2015, 12:24:33 PM
Quote
You have taken a too  utilitarian approach.

No, I have taken the approach of not trusting anything on the surface, and then one by one, asking questions of the obvious (which I noticed that you did not answer), like why the president of a country would take personal charge of an investigation of the murder of one of his opponents, and in which he knows that the first aspirations will be in his direction.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 28, 2015, 12:30:27 PM
AC, in relation to Nemtsov Twitter account....I am sure that the Investigative Services officers who raided his home by now certainly have the passwords on the computers they confiscated. Other than their search for how much "dirt" he possessed on Putin, and with whom he had shared it, I am sure that if there is a way to smear Nemtsov on sexual allegations, they will have it leaked in no time.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 28, 2015, 12:50:43 PM
I'd like to know something, Mendy; Are right hand or left side drive vehicles used in Moscow? I've looked at pics and it seems Moscow drives mostly left side drive vehicles, no?

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 28, 2015, 01:45:53 PM
All that I've seen are LH drive even an older Jag sedan.

 Normally RH cars are in England of former British colonies. There are probably a few older imports that are RH, but IIRC UA at least stopped the importation of RH cars several years ago.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 28, 2015, 02:27:49 PM
Most are LH, but there are imports with RH.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on February 28, 2015, 03:00:12 PM
Most are LH, but there are imports with RH.

Thanks Mike and Mendy.

From Sputnik...

"Russian TV Channel Publishes Video Showing Possible Killers of Nemtsov

Police have found a white LADA Priora car that could be used by the murderers of politician Boris Nemtsov. The vehilce's registration number originates from Russia's southern Republic of Ingushetia."...

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150228/1018881337.html#ixzz3T4wsGqdS

Has Putin had any trouble with Ingushetia lately (or Nemtsov for that matter)?

My interest in the steering column was that if it was a left side steering car (which a Lada Priora is) it probably wasn't a single shooter on the bridge. Sputnik is reporting gunmen vice gunman so that's consistent at least.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 28, 2015, 03:14:11 PM
Brass
Quote
Has Putin had any trouble with Ingushetia lately (or Nemtsov for that matter)?


Ongoing for Putin and Ingushetia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on February 28, 2015, 05:20:32 PM
Brass

Ongoing for Putin and Ingushetia.

More plausible deniability of the Kremlin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on February 28, 2015, 09:39:50 PM
AC
That could have very well been the case. I did not see the photo, although he and I followed each other on Twitter.

I just have to wonder who would benefit most about posting it in the first place?

Then, who would benefit most by removing it?

When was it removed, in relation to the timeline of his murder?

These are very good questions.  I saw the photo on his twitter page last night and made a post about it.  Took a look again and the photo (which was in the bottom right corner of a group of 4 images) was gone.  In the top left corner of the group of images was a joke with Nuland saying:  come to the dark side, and we'll give you cookies.  I don't remember the other two images.

I first saw it after reading about his death.  I'm not sure what time it was but I believe it was about 11:20pm Pacific Coast time (USA) last night.  When I looked again about 15 minutes later the images were gone.  In both cases it was after his death.  However I don't know if the image had been up prior to his death, but I believe it was.  I think somebody removed it because it might make him look bad.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 01, 2015, 10:02:09 AM
Brass

Ongoing for Putin and Ingushetia.


More plausible deniability of the Kremlin

I think this is where it's going to go. Remove Nemtsov and blame some hapless militants in a minor republic who probably never even had him on their radar.

I'm waiting for Putin's (he's apparently taken oversight of the investigation) spin on this, it's gonna be a good one. :rolleyes:

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 01, 2015, 12:48:40 PM
Lithuania and Poland are building more re-gasification plants to remove an unstable or threatened supply from Russia and bring it in from the US or the ME.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0228/683563-lithuania-united-states-natural-gas/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 01, 2015, 01:03:01 PM
Great news! Finally, a country willing to assist with real aid.

Putin will be displeased. I wonder how long it'll take for Merkel and Hollande to book their flights to Abu Dhabi...

More from the WSJ...

Ukraine to Buy ‘Defensive’ Weapons in U.A.E., President Says

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-president-meets-u-a-e-officials-to-secure-weapons-purchase-1424788248

You know, I'm starting to get a little pee'd off with this 'yes, no, maybe'
crap. I must have missed the frumpy frau's trip to Abu Dhabi earlier this week. :rolleyes:

Maybe Obama got on the horn and issued a warning he would actually keep because it's not Russia. Or Hollande contacted the seven emirates and told them no more arms deals for you if you piss off my boss Vlad.

U.A.E. Won’t Supply Weapons to Ukraine

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-a-e-wont-supply-weapons-to-ukraine-1425123342

Sad state of affairs.

Brass

Edit: Oh look, now this article from 4 hours ago reports the deal's apparently on again...

Ukraine Cuts Deals While Waiting for the US

defencenews.com (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/2015/03/01/ukraine-cuts-deals-waiting-us-poroshenko-russia-ukroboronprom-uae/23978657/)





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 01, 2015, 03:12:39 PM
Hope & change
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 02, 2015, 03:08:16 PM
Average Cost of Bribe in Russia Spiked in 2014 Amid Ruble Crisis

The average cost of a bribe in Moscow rose 37 percent last year to hit 327,000 rubles ($5,250), according to Moscow police chief Anatoly Yakunin, news agency Interfax reported on Wednesday.

The typical cost of a bribe in Russia's regions, which are far poorer than Moscow, stood at 139,000 rubles ($2,230) said Yakunin, citing a recent study completed by Moscow's police.

Corruption overall cost Russia's budget about 47 billion rubles ($762 million) last year, he added.

Speaking to newspaper Kommersant on Wednesday, Yakunin said that the steep rise in bribery rates was tied the ruble's volatility, as most bribes are paid in U.S. dollars and euros.

 The ruble has fallen over 40 percent to the greenback since last summer and over 30 percent to the euro, weighed down by Western sanctions and the falling price of oil.

The average price of bribes far outpaced the average salary for a Moscow resident, which is 50,000 rubles ($800) a month
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/average-cost-of-bribe-in-russia-spiked-in-2014-amid-ruble-crisis/516536.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 02, 2015, 03:20:20 PM
Real inflation in Ukraine is 300%
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on March 03, 2015, 05:57:37 AM
What do Russian citizens think about corruption and bribery? Do they just accept it as 'normal'? Why do Russians have such low standards for themselves? It's sad. It's also sad that they cannot elect better leaders...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 03, 2015, 08:39:53 AM
What do Russian citizens think about corruption and bribery? Do they just accept it as 'normal'? Why do Russians have such low standards for themselves? It's sad. It's also sad that they cannot elect better leaders...

Russians think a lot about 'Security' from their government.  They want things to remain stable and not directly interfere with their lives. In the current atmosphere, there is both pride and rejection.  I talk to my Russian friends almost every day.  Mostly, when one brings up politics or government, the subject is quickly changed.  Even over a good bottle of the local soy sauce, in the home or banya, the only direct response you get is that it is what it is. 

You all have to remember that Moscow is a far away place for most of Russia and the national politics are seen as a futbol game.  Putin plays for the home team.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 03, 2015, 10:16:39 AM
Yeah, the Nemtsov murder makes Russia very stable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on March 03, 2015, 10:53:39 AM
The Russians in general are just like Americans, Brits and every other person on earth. They want security and stability. The difference in Russians and the Westerners is, Westerners can bitch about it and kind of sort'a be heard. In Russia it can still cost you your life. Nemtov's murder is just more proof of that
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 03, 2015, 12:53:08 PM
Thousands of years under Tsars, the almost 80 under Soviet dictators. The only concept of freedom they have came in the "wild west" 90s when Oligarchs and politicians robbed anything of value, pensioners starved, the currency plunged overnight, and working people were months without paychecks and when paid finally were given vodka and cigarettes in lieu of currency.

Thus, their brief experience with "democracy" was not only short-lived, but very traumatic. Thus they value stability over what they perceive as the only alternative.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 03, 2015, 03:24:11 PM
Two Russian Beverage Plants Close

..."PepsiCo, Coca-Cola Hellenic shift production, citing ruble and Russian economy

PepsiCo  Inc. and  Coca-Cola Hellenic Bottling  Co. AG are closing one plant each in Russia, citing a plunge in the value of the Russian ruble and an unfavorable economic situation.

The two are the latest food and drink companies to cut production in Russia as the country slides into recession. In January, Danish brewer  Carlsberg  A/S said it would be closing two plants in Russia, and  Danone  Russia said it would consider closing some of its dairy plants should the economic situation worsen."...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/pepsico-coca-cola-hellenic-to-close-russia-plants-1425330133

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 03, 2015, 06:19:46 PM
Thousands of years under Tsars, the almost 80 under Soviet dictators.

300 years of Romanovs, not thousands.  And not all the Romanovs were Ivan the Terrible.

Quote
Alexander II went around Petersburg with fear in his eyes (but, incidentally, without a bodyguard), "like a hunted animal" (according to Tolstoi, who, met the Tsar on the staircase of a private house).

- Aleksandr l Solzhenitsyn


Comparing the Soviets to the Tsars is unfair and inaccurate.  The Soviets are a level of evil comparable to other Socialist regimes like Nazi germany but even then they are in a class all on their own.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 03, 2015, 09:18:33 PM
Russians' Average Monthly Salary Falls to $500 as Food Prices Skyrocket
By Peter Spinella
Mar. 03 2015 20:54
Last edited 20:54


Amid soaring inflation, the average monthly salary across Russia shrank to 31,200 rubles ($500) in January, Gazeta.ru reported Tuesday citing the Economic Development Ministry.

The current average represents an 8 percent decrease from the same month last year in ruble terms, and a nearly 50 percent plunge in dollar terms as a result of a severe economic downturn that has rapidly devalued Russia's national currency.

Spending on food is expected to account for 50 to 55 percent of household income by the end of this year, business newspaper Vedomosti reported Monday. Food prices surged 22 percent in February alone, though that figure is expected to stabilize in coming months, Vedomosti said, citing VTB analysts.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russians-average-salary-falls-to-500-as-food-prices-skyrocket/516947.html

Russia Is World's 7th Most Miserable Economy
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-is-world-s-7th-most-miserable-economy/516925.html

Russian Billionaires Slip Down Forbes Rich List
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-billionaires-slip-down-forbes-rich-list/516927.html

Russian Rainy-Day Reserves Fall as Economic Crisis Squeezes Budget
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-rainy-day-reserves-fall-as-economic-crisis-squeezes-budget/516949.html

Russian Oil Output Will Dwindle Under Sanctions and Low Prices – LUKoil Executive
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-oil-output-will-dwindle-under-sanctions-and-low-prices-lukoil-executive/516935.html


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 04, 2015, 01:24:21 AM
LT:
Quote
300 years of Romanovs, not thousands.  And not all the Romanovs were Ivan the Terrible.

You are correct. I just lumped Tsars with feudal lords and foreign princes. The point is that at no time in history has Russia experienced what a true democracy is like.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 04, 2015, 05:07:10 AM
LT:
You are correct. I just lumped Tsars with feudal lords and foreign princes. The point is that at no time in history has Russia experienced what a true democracy is like.

Solzhenitsyn pointed to democratic governments at various points of Russian history - the Free Cossacks being one example.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 04, 2015, 10:56:09 AM
LT:
Quote
Solzhenitsyn pointed to democratic governments at various points of Russian history - the Free Cossacks being one example.

If that makes you feel as if Russia had a storied past filled with democratic ideals, go for it.

I don't.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 04, 2015, 02:48:03 PM
Ukraine urgently mined all the bridges in the Crimea

Sasha Kazimirsky March 4, 2015, 23:01


Ukrainian leadership has issued an urgent order to undermine all the bridges that lead to the occupied Russian Federation Crimean peninsula from the Kherson region. On this news reports "Press of Ukraine" with reference to some Russian media. It is reported that the bridges were mined still on February 17 but only now become aware of this. The Russian media say that Ukraine mined two bridges: the old bridge is not used in the Crimea and the bridge on the road between the border crossing "Chongar" (Ukraine) and "Dzhankoi" (Russia). "lock tab 42 wooden crates to the green bridge abutments. It summed up the boxes of electrical wires, the ends of which are derived in the direction locations of Ukrainian troops "- the same information was confirmed by the" press service "" Edge of the FSB of Russia in the Republic of Crimea. " It is noted that traffic on the bridge during mining "is not interrupted . " Let us remind the readers, "Press of Ukraine", which in the depths of the Ministry of Transport of the Russian Federation in all seriousness discussed the construction across the Kerch Strait of a "cargo-cable-ferrying complex." And said today in Yalta about such "cable" plans of Russian occupants a Basov holding the position of head of the "Chamber of Commerce of the Crimea." According to Basov, the idea of creating such a complex by Professor Anatoly short. Basov said that local authorities generally did not react to this idea and proposal. In turn, the Ministry of Transport of the Russian Federation are interested in the development. "Professor Short invited to the Ministry of Transport of the Russian Federation, and there at the highest level, this issue is addressed," - said Bass. He added that the Kerch bridge can be built no earlier than 3-4 years. At the same time creating cable-ferrying complex will take a year
http://uapress.info/ru/news/show/65040
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 04, 2015, 04:05:29 PM
LT:
If that makes you feel as if Russia had a storied past filled with democratic ideals, go for it.

I don't.

That's not what I said.  I referenced Solzhenitsyn who spoke of democratic governments at various points in different parts of Russia.  I do not consider the post Soviet settlement as democratic nor did I say that the history rivaled Anglo-American traditions. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 04, 2015, 05:28:46 PM
That's not what I said.  I referenced Solzhenitsyn who spoke of democratic governments at various points in different parts of Russia.  I do not consider the post Soviet settlement as democratic nor did I say that the history rivaled Anglo-American traditions.


Really, what the hell did you say?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 04, 2015, 05:34:10 PM
Increased sanctions against Russia are being formulated. Putin has persisted in thinking he can bluff all his indiscretions out--but gradually the western nations are getting a grasp on the reality of the Russian anti world attitudes and behaviour.
The sanctions are biting-- but they need to be much wider and more restrictive on all Russians-- it is the 'all" part that must wake up to Putin and his cronies mismanagement of Russia-- and it is the "all" that will suffer from the sanctions. Time for ordinary Russians to take their head out of the sand-- and start realising they are culpable.
Regardless of that-- i would really target the wealthy in Russia( and wealthy Russians anywhere!) and Russian companies everywhere to increase the pressure on Putin & kremlin cronies.
West Threatens New Sanctions Against Russia
U.S. and European policymakers are meeting to craft new restrictions, but it's unclear what Russian action would prompt them.
US and European leaders are threatening further sanctions against Moscow over Ukraine, but it’s unclear what measures are on the table and what Russian actions would prompt further restrictions.

Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland said Wednesday that U.S. policymakers started “intensive consultations” this week with European leaders on sanctions “should Russia continue fueling the fire in the east of Ukraine or in other parts of the country,” fail to implement a recent cease-fire, or grab more land.

“We have shown through our sanctions on investment that, if you bite off a piece of another country, it will dry up in your mouth,” Nuland said at a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing. Nuland said State Department and Treasury Department sanctions officials are still in Europe for meetings on the new measures. “Our unity with Europe remains the core of our policy toward this crisis.”
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/04/west-threatens-new-sanctions-against-russia-merkel-cameron-putin-minsk/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=%2AEditors%20Picks&utm_campaign=2015_EditorsPicks_PROMO_3_TAMU_Bush_School
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 04, 2015, 10:13:32 PM
What has changed in a year occupation of Crimea

After the illegal annexation of the Crimea peninsula on Russia significantly increased food prices, collapsed turnover in ports and almost ends tourists, besides the Russians.

This is according to analysis conducted by the activists 'words and deeds. "

After the occupation it became clear that without Ukraine Crimea can not exist.

From the mainland to the peninsula supplied products and 80% water, 85% of electricity 100% of telecommunication services (telephone and Internet).

Crimea there was a 60% subsidy from Kyiv, and without regard to Ukraine peninsula remained virtually transport blockade as enter, leave only through ferry in Kerch, which is not designed for this amount of vehicle traffic.

Last year in the Crimea at 45-180% more expensive staple foods.

The composition of the flow of tourists after the occupation has changed dramatically. Previously on holiday with Ukraine was getting nearly 4 million tourists a year, but now this figure fell to 0.4 million.

Instead, increased by 2 million of tourists from Russia.
http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2015/03/4/7060493/

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 04, 2015, 10:22:23 PM
White Wash Anyone?

Stalin wiped from Soviet Gulag prison museum

The director of a Russian museum at a Stalin-era prison camp says local officials have taken over the site and removed references to the Soviet dictator's crimes.

"Of course it's a political move," Viktor Shmyrov told the BBC.

Perm-36, in Russia's Ural mountains, is the only surviving camp with buildings dating back to the Stalinist terror.

A non-governmental group has been managing the museum, but is disbanding after arguments with Perm officials.

Millions of Soviet citizens were sent to labour camps in the notorious Gulag system, or shot, during Joseph Stalin's hardline communist rule. The worst repressions took place in the 1930s.

Portraits of Stalin - taboo after the scale of his crimes was revealed - have become more common since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Surveys indicate that many Russians now regard Stalin as a hero.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31711287
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 05, 2015, 07:24:38 AM
If every day Russians view Stalin as a hero, after wiping out whole sectors of the population and killing his own citizens by the millions in gulags, how benign Putin must be viewed by these same people and how much a hero he must seem after taking action.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 05, 2015, 08:09:34 AM
Thousands of years under Tsars, the almost 80 under Soviet dictators. The only concept of freedom they have came in the "wild west" 90s when Oligarchs and politicians robbed anything of value, pensioners starved, the currency plunged overnight, and working people were months without paychecks and when paid finally were given vodka and cigarettes in lieu of currency.

Thus, their brief experience with "democracy" was not only short-lived, but very traumatic. Thus they value stability over what they perceive as the only alternative.
I believe you need to rsearch more on this subject.
It is too easy to accept our Hollywood version of the days past where every nobleman is a tyrant that suppresses people. This is as realistic as believing everyone considered the earth to be flat.
In reality for important decisions the people of the town were called in order to give support to the suggested plans. They had the power to overturn them, making it a kind of democratic system.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 05, 2015, 08:11:43 AM
If every day Russians view Stalin as a hero, after wiping out whole sectors of the population and killing his own citizens by the millions in gulags, how benign Putin must be viewed by these same people and how much a hero he must seem after taking action.
Every day Russians do not see Stalin as hero, however as someone who did both good and (very) bad things.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2015, 09:28:42 AM
I read this week, on the closing of Perm-36 as a museum, that 52% of Russians have favorable views of Stalin.
 
Part of the problem with Russia (and Ukraine) is that communist party records were sealed by those who had an interest in ensuring the truth remained hidden.  There was no "de communization" of the country.  The same pigs that ran, and ruined, the country for 7 decades remain in control.  Hence, the lack of transparency.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on March 05, 2015, 11:51:58 AM
I read this week, on the closing of Perm-36 as a museum, that 52% of Russians have favorable views of Stalin.
 
Part of the problem with Russia (and Ukraine) is that communist party records were sealed by those who had an interest in ensuring the truth remained hidden.  There was no "de communization" of the country.  The same pigs that ran, and ruined, the country for 7 decades remain in control.  Hence, the lack of transparency.

+1000!!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 05, 2015, 12:11:34 PM
I believe you need to rsearch more on this subject.
It is too easy to accept our Hollywood version of the days past where every nobleman is a tyrant that suppresses people. This is as realistic as believing everyone considered the earth to be flat.
In reality for important decisions the people of the town were called in order to give support to the suggested plans. They had the power to overturn them, making it a kind of democratic system.

No, you need to wake up from dreaming. I have little idea of what Hollywood portrayed about that period. But I know, from first hand experience, what Russia was like in those days. Perhaps you were too sheltered to remember when ducks virtually disappeared from the Moscow river, and pensioners took anything of value from their apartments to sell on street corners.

Go ahead and keep believing the earth to be flat. I pity you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2015, 12:18:48 PM
Is Shadow referring to a commie period, or to the tsarist past?
 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 05, 2015, 12:22:47 PM
No, you need to wake up from dreaming. I have little idea of what Hollywood portrayed about that period. But I know, from first hand experience, what Russia was like in those days. Perhaps you were too sheltered to remember when ducks virtually disappeared from the Moscow river, and pensioners took anything of value from their apartments to sell on street corners.

Go ahead and keep believing the earth to be flat. I pity you.
I did not know you were that old.... did you also meet the dinosaurs?  8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 05, 2015, 12:27:58 PM
I believe you need to rsearch more on this subject.
It is too easy to accept our Hollywood version of the days past where every nobleman is a tyrant that suppresses people. This is as realistic as believing everyone considered the earth to be flat.
In reality for important decisions the people of the town were called in order to give support to the suggested plans. They had the power to overturn them, making it a kind of democratic system.

Kind of... :P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 05, 2015, 12:35:06 PM
I read this week, on the closing of Perm-36 as a museum, that 52% of Russians have favorable views of Stalin.
 
Part of the problem with Russia (and Ukraine) is that communist party records were sealed by those who had an interest in ensuring the truth remained hidden.  There was no "de communization" of the country.  The same pigs that ran, and ruined, the country for 7 decades remain in control.  Hence, the lack of transparency.
Incorrect. MrsShadow has proven to me that there was a disclosure of Stalin´s deeds right after his death.
The pigs changed, especially the ones giving gifts that today are seen as never given....

However as with the people caring less about the Holocaust, the atrocities of Stalin are also fading from memory. What remains is a memory of a strong leader who laid the base of Russia as a world power.
That this cost the lives of millions within all of the Soviet territory is tragically overlooked.

However many stories about support for Stalin are exaggerated. For instance the reason he finished runner-up in the election of ´Most important Russian´ was not due to real support but due to an internet hype to mess with the result of the election.

The support must also be seen in a wider context that is hard to explain for Americans. In Russia there is much les of a black-white perspective, meaning that nobody is declared all good or all evil. Instead the perspective is that all people are capable of both good and evil, and will do both based on what they in their position feel as the right decision. This makes it a lot easier to accept the merits of Stalin een without overlooking his atrocities.
When asked most Russians will know Stalin was a paranoid mass-murdering tyrant and anyone who was called before him would not know if it was to be given praise or to be sentenced to death. At the same time they also know Stalin ensured that the work of the Revolution was continued, and got the victory in the east front of WW2.
In Russian perspective that makes him a strong leader, which means he is given some merit.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 05, 2015, 12:38:29 PM
Kind of... :P
Indeed. Our idea of democracy is anyhow extremely warped.
Those in Rome and Athens who laid the foundations did not allow every person to vote. Voting was kept to citizens, and citizens were the land owners, rich merchants and those decorated in war.
A very limited group that if nowadays would be the only ones voting woud not be seen as a democracy at all.

So any system where the normal citizens were able to cast their opinon on important matters should be seen as a democratic influence, as in Rome or Athens only the land owner would have had a ´demoratic´vote.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 05, 2015, 12:44:00 PM
Shadow:
Quote
I did not know you were that old.... did you also meet the dinosaurs?

Why yes, they were a very nice family! But alas, they moved across town and our Friday night chess games just faded away with time.  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 05, 2015, 12:44:23 PM
Indeed. Our idea of democracy is anyhow extremely warped.
Those in Rome and Athens who laid the foundations did not allow every person to vote. Voting was kept to citizens, and citizens were the land owners, rich merchants and those decorated in war.
A very limited group that if nowadays would be the only ones voting woud not be seen as a democracy at all.

So any system where the normal citizens were able to cast their opinon on important matters should be seen as a democratic influence, as in Rome or Athens only the land owner would have had a ´democratic´vote.

Well apparently you don't know that I agree with an ancient Greek who said that "democracy" is the weakest form of government, and if we have one I would much prefer what you described above.  But that's just me.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 05, 2015, 12:45:04 PM
Incorrect. MrsShadow has proven to me that there was a disclosure of Stalin´s deeds right after his death.
The pigs changed, especially the ones giving gifts that today are seen as never given....

However as with the people caring less about the Holocaust, the atrocities of Stalin are also fading from memory. What remains is a memory of a strong leader who laid the base of Russia as a world power.
The pigs I was referring to were not the ones in power in Stalin's time, but at the demise of the USSR.  That includes the nomenklatura which still rules both Russia and Ukraine.
 
Not everything about Stalin's crimes was disclosed.  Moreover, the systems he either inherited or created remained in place.  Individuals were still sent to gulags, with the last prisoner in a gulag dying in 1985.
Quote
That this cost the lives of millions within all of the Soviet territory is
tragically overlooked.

However many stories about support for Stalin are exaggerated. For instance the reason he finished runner-up in the election of ´Most important Russian´ was not due to real support but due to an internet hype to mess with the result of the election.
None of which changes the fact that a majority of Russians view him favorably. 

Quote
The support must also be seen in a wider context that is hard to explain for Americans. In Russia there is much les of a black-white perspective, meaning that nobody is declared all good or all evil. Instead the perspective is that all people are capable of both good and evil, and will do both based on what they in their position feel as the right decision. This makes it a lot easier to accept the merits of Stalin een without overlooking his atrocities.
I am not American.  Moreover, Americans do not have "black and white" perspectives on issues, no matter how much sophisticated Europeans wish to believe they know so much better than the hicks across the pond. :)

Quote
When asked most Russians will know Stalin was a paranoid mass-murdering tyrant and anyone who was called before him would not know if it was to be given praise or to be sentenced to death. At the same time they also know Stalin ensured that the work of the Revolution was continued, and got the victory in the east front of WW2.
In Russian perspective that makes him a strong leader, which means he is given some merit.
A revolution which never had mass support, one in which most of the tied tested and true were executed by Stalin, and as for WWII, read reports of the earliest days.  Stalin was on the floor, unable to function.  It was Tsarist trained generals who saved the USSR, and an appeal to pre revolutionary symbols, such as the church, and a promise (broken) to change the system after the war.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 05, 2015, 12:47:14 PM
Well apparently you don't know that I agree with an ancient Greek who said that "democracy" is the weakest form of government, and if we have one I would much prefer what you described above.  But that's just me.
I agree with you on that, unfortunately only Switzerland has this system nowadays as far as I know.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 05, 2015, 12:48:15 PM
It seems to me that an attempt to rehabilitate Stalin is most the work of V. Putin.  Many educated Russians are probably perfectly aware of what his true nature was, but likely not the extent of it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 05, 2015, 12:54:56 PM
The pigs I was referring to were not the ones in power in Stalin's time, but at the demise of the USSR.  That includes the nomenklatura which still rules both Russia and Ukraine.
My bad, and you are correct in that perspective.

Not everything about Stalin's crimes was disclosed.  Moreover, the systems he either inherited or created remained in place.  Individuals were still sent to gulags, with the last prisoner in a gulag dying in 1985.None of which changes the fact that a majority of Russians view him favorably. 
A revolution which never had mass support, one in which most of the tied tested and true were executed by Stalin, and as for WWII, read reports of the earliest days.  Stalin was on the floor, unable to function.  It was Tsarist trained generals who saved the USSR, and an appeal to pre revolutionary symbols, such as the church, and a promise (broken) to change the system after the war.
I largely agree with you, except that when I last checked there was n majority support. Might have changed over the last few years though.


I am not American.  Moreover, Americans do not have "black and white" perspectives on issues, no matter how much sophisticated Europeans wish to believe they know so much better than the hicks across the pond. :)
Canadians are resrve- Americans :P
As for black and white perspective it is far more prevalent as someone close to the fire might be able to see.
That is not from knowing better but from seeing it in many forms. Including the introduction of the dualistic models in the education in Europe.
In most areas (and not just the movies) there is a dualistic system. It is embedded in politics as well.
While it is far from an absolute, there is far more dualism on the American continent as on the European.
In Asia on the other hand people simply think what they are told to...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 05, 2015, 05:03:13 PM
Those in Rome and Athens who laid the foundations did not allow every person to vote. Voting was kept to citizens, and citizens were the land owners, rich merchants and those decorated in war.
Your knowledge of ancient voting rights is way off :-\.

Athens, no census/military limitations:
Quote
participating citizens voted directly on legislation and executive bills. Participation was not open to all residents: to vote one had to be an adult, male citizen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

The Roman Kingdom and later Republic had a more complicated voting system:
Quote

When Servius Tullius, the sixth king of Rome, reformed the tribal system of Rome, giving the vote to men who had not been members of the three original tribes, he increased the number of tribes and assigned people to them on the basis of geographic location rather than kinship ties. There were at least two main reasons for the extension of the suffrage, to increase the tax body and to add to the rolls of young men suitable for the military. Over the next couple of centuries more tribes were added until there were 35 tribes in 241 B.C. The number of tribes remained stable and so new citizens were assigned to one of the 35 no matter where they lived.
Initially wealthy Romans had much more 'weight', particularly in the Senate, but less after the office of Tribunus plebis was instituted in 494 BC after the powerless Roman plebs left the city en masse in protest. This magistrature, reserved to plebeians and elected by them only, became increasingly powerful in later years, to the point of having veto powers over Senate laws if deemed detrimental to plebeian interests.

In conclusion, Roman voting rights were NOT reserved to the rich.

As Roman citizenship was granted to newly acquired territories, so was the right to vote. However, if one did not happen to be in Rome when an election was convened, he could hardly exercise his right ;D.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 05, 2015, 05:12:16 PM
Including the introduction of the dualistic models in the education in Europe.
In most areas (and not just the movies) there is a dualistic system. It is embedded in politics as well.
While it is far from an absolute, there is far more dualism on the American continent as on the European.

What do you mean, Shadow?  In politics I presume that you mean Republicans v Democrats, Conservative v Labour, etc, but how does education fit into this?

In Asia on the other hand people simply think what they are told to...

Don't generalise so much - Asia extends from Turkey to Japan.  Last time I looked there were only a handful of countries where that might conceivably apply, North Korea being an obvious example.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 05, 2015, 05:13:02 PM

U.S. Sanctions Over Ukraine Hit Two Russian Banks Hardest

Bank Rossiya, SMP Bank main targets; even Paypal accounts frozen
 
WASHINGTON—Banks controlled by three billionaire friends of Russian President  Vladimir Putin  have seen about $640 million of assets frozen in the U.S. as retaliation for the Kremlin’s actions in Ukraine, according to U.S. government records.

The figures, not previously reported, show the surprising extent to which the economic sanctions imposed by the U.S. have pinched the pockets of some of Russia’s most politically connected firms.

Hit the hardest is Bank Rossiya, which had at least $572 million blocked in U.S. accounts, according to records released to The Wall Street Journal by the Treasury Department. That is equivalent to roughly 10% of its 2013 assets, at today’s exchange rate.

The St. Petersburg bank, whose founder Yuri Kovalchuk is alleged by the U.S. to be one of Mr. Putin’s “cashiers,” was described by the Obama administration as a personal bank for senior Russian officials.

Also hit is SMP Bank, majority-owned by Arkady and Boris Rotenberg, two brothers who are childhood friends and former judo partners of Mr. Putin. They have amassed some of Russia’s biggest fortunes, built in part on lucrative contracts with the state and state-owned companies.

Their bank has had at least $65 million—equal to about 2% of 2013 assets—blocked across dozens of accounts in U.S. financial institutions, Treasury documents show.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sanctions-over-ukraine-hit-two-russian-banks-hardest-1425597150
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 05, 2015, 05:21:54 PM
Reports are in about Ukraine mining bridges to Crimea to stop all traffic in case of an attack. Roads are being dug up leading to Transisteria border also. All local border stations to Russia are closed.

http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/news/ukraine_closes_local_border_traffic_with_russia_329534

http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/05/4144
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 05, 2015, 05:29:01 PM

As for black and white perspective it is far more prevalent as someone close to the fire might be able to see.
That is not from knowing better but from seeing it in many forms. Including the introduction of the dualistic models in the education in Europe.
In most areas (and not just the movies) there is a dualistic system. It is embedded in politics as well.
While it is far from an absolute, there is far more dualism on the American continent as on the European.
In Asia on the other hand people simply think what they are told to...


Actually, it seems to me that you are the proponent of a benign dictator who will take care of the ignorant populace children.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 05, 2015, 06:21:25 PM
Russia starts large-scale military exercises in disputed territories

 (Reuters) - Russia's Defence Ministry said on Thursday that large-scale military exercises had started in southern Russia and in disputed territories on Russia's borders.

The exercises involve over 2,000 anti-aircraft troops and 500 items of weaponry and will last until April 10, Interfax news agency reported.

The Defence Ministry said the exercises were taking place in Russia's Southern and North Caucasus Federal Districts, as well as on Russian military bases in Armenia, the Georgian separatist regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia and Ukraine's Crimea region, which Moscow annexed last year.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/05/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-military-idUSKBN0M10RG20150305
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on March 05, 2015, 06:22:29 PM
Reports are in about Ukraine mining bridges to Crimea to stop all traffic in case of an attack. Roads are being dug up leading to Transisteria border also. All International borders to Russia are closed.

MIKE , do you have any links to these ?

glad to see their being as pro active as they can

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 05, 2015, 06:43:52 PM
Pm sent SX.

 added links
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 05, 2015, 08:51:52 PM

Actually, it seems to me that you are the proponent of a benign dictator who will take care of the ignorant populace children.

You mean like a socialist?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 05, 2015, 08:57:55 PM
You mean like a socialist?

Don't vex him with the truth, he can't handle it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 05, 2015, 09:05:13 PM
Don't vex him with the truth, he can't handle it.

We know - he is a committed socialist.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 05, 2015, 11:16:08 PM
According to this article Debaltseve was not a debacle, and in fact the kill ratio was 3 to 1 in favor of Ukraine.  Ukraine does not need to "beat" Russia to win the war on their own territory.


http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/04/a-stalemate-ukraine-can-win-russia-war-donetsk-donbass/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 06, 2015, 01:03:55 AM
Russia's Gazprom Asks Government for Financial Aid, Report Says

Russia's Gazprom Neft, the oil arm of gas producer Gazprom, has asked the government for 198 billion rubles ($3.3 billion) in financial aid, the daily Kommersant reported Friday.

Ever since Moscow was hit by sanctions over the Ukraine crisis, Russian companies have struggled to raise financing because Western markets are largely closed to them.

Rosneft, Russia's largest oil producer, initially asked the government for more than 1 trillion rubles, but the figure was later revised down to 300 billion rubles.

Gazprom Neft declined to comment on the Kommersant story.

Kommersant said the company had handed a letter to Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich listing projects for which it needs financing, but it has not yet filed an official request.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-s-gazprom-asks-government-for-financial-aid-report-says/517100.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 06, 2015, 03:05:02 AM

Actually, it seems to me that you are the proponent of a benign dictator who will take care of the ignorant populace children.
Nope, I am just for leaving the choice made in a democracy to the people of that country. Even if the outcome is not someone I would think being good for the country.
We know - he is a committed socialist.
Only in America.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 06, 2015, 12:12:32 PM
Could this be the disconnect from SWIFT that we've been waiting for???  :crackwhip: :crackwhip:


March 06, 2015
 
Cameron proposes to deprive Russia of access to world financial markets

British Prime Minister David Cameron says that the West is ready to bring the sanctions against Russia 'to a whole different level,' if the Minsk agreement are not fulfilled.

In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, David Cameron notes that Russia "can not rip up one part of the international rule book", while still having access to international markets and financial systems.

According to Cameron, the Western countries should be prepared to "to settle in for a long and determined position" of pitting the weight of the U.S. and the EU against Russia.

He adds that world leaders decided to bring the sanctions against Russia "to a whole different level," if another incident like that in Debaltseve happens again. The agency notes that the city was captured by militants after the conclusion of truce.

http://joinfo.com/world/1001577_Cameron-proposes-to-deprive-Russia-of-access-to.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 06, 2015, 03:08:12 PM
We know - he is a committed socialist.


Why thank you.  :blowkiss:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 06, 2015, 03:10:28 PM
Don't vex him with the truth, he can't handle it.


Said the man who don't even know the facts.


Humor me. Repeat mindlessly anything you've heard from talk radio lately that says it's Obama's fault.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 06, 2015, 03:13:37 PM
Nope, I am just for leaving the choice made in a democracy to the people of that country. Even if the outcome is not someone I would think being good for the country.


Exactly. So you are condemning Putler for invading Ukraine, right?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 06, 2015, 04:17:55 PM

Said the man who don't even know the facts.


Humor me. Repeat mindlessly anything you've heard from talk radio lately that says it's Obama's fault.

Obama isn't responsible for nothing. Nothing is ever is fault
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 06, 2015, 04:24:46 PM
Obama isn't responsible for nothing. Nothing is ever is fault


Now, that's a good boy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 06, 2015, 05:53:41 PM
In the center of Berlin hung Ukrainian flag calling for Putin

 Friday, March 6, 2015




On the night of 4 to 5 March in central Berlin Wall Museum ?Check Point Charlie? Ukraine flag hung calling for Putin "give freedom throughout Ukraine." This was reported in their Facebook volunteer Tatiana Rychkova. A huge poster colors of the national flag of Ukraine, measuring 15 by 8 meters, calling Russian President Vladimir Putin hold back its ambitions on Ukraine. The flag hung on the walls of the museum at the initiative of the museum's director, Ukrainian by birth, Alexandra Hilbebrandt, said the publication Berlin-visual.com / photo - Tatiana Rychkova
 


http://www.hromadske.tv/politics/u-tsentri-berlina-povisili-ukrayinskii-prapor-iz-z/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 06, 2015, 08:31:02 PM

In Russia started this panic!


After making yesterday in the State Duma a bill to ban all Russians traveling abroad from Russia, the financial markets and the banking system in Russia started a real panic.

From bank accounts of physical persons removed $ 2.9 billion - is the maximum amount for one day conduct of such statistics regulator stated the Russian Central Bank. As before, the Russians prefer US dollars. During the day, the demand for them has increased by 550% to $ 1.8 billion, while the euro - by 500% to $ 1.3 billion.

On the sale of all of the available US and European currencies over the past day reported a small Moscow bank teller Svetlana: "We sold today all foreign currency, both in dollars and euros."

"Real estate markets of Bulgaria, Montenegro, Croatia, Cyprus, Thailand, Spain, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, where the Russians the most eagerly snapping up" Cottage by the Sea "activated the full", - said the head of the analytical center "Indicators of the real estate market," Oleg Repchenko.

"In Russia, started a real panic. People are actively buying foreign currency to buy property abroad and trying to leave the country. Airports are crowded, people are fleeing abroad with their entire families, "- said Repchenko.

Yesterday the Russian TV channel LifeNews reported that "the State Duma introduced a bill to ban all Russians traveling abroad from the territory of Russia."
http://newsdaily.com.ua/post/775313
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on March 06, 2015, 08:40:33 PM
In Russia started this panic!


After making yesterday in the State Duma a bill to ban all Russians traveling abroad from Russia, the financial markets and the banking system in Russia started a real panic.

From bank accounts of physical persons removed $ 2.9 billion - is the maximum amount for one day conduct of such statistics regulator stated the Russian Central Bank. As before, the Russians prefer US dollars. During the day, the demand for them has increased by 550% to $ 1.8 billion, while the euro - by 500% to $ 1.3 billion.

On the sale of all of the available US and European currencies over the past day reported a small Moscow bank teller Svetlana: "We sold today all foreign currency, both in dollars and euros."

"Real estate markets of Bulgaria, Montenegro, Croatia, Cyprus, Thailand, Spain, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, where the Russians the most eagerly snapping up" Cottage by the Sea "activated the full", - said the head of the analytical center "Indicators of the real estate market," Oleg Repchenko.

"In Russia, started a real panic. People are actively buying foreign currency to buy property abroad and trying to leave the country. Airports are crowded, people are fleeing abroad with their entire families, "- said Repchenko.

Yesterday the Russian TV channel LifeNews reported that "the State Duma introduced a bill to ban all Russians traveling abroad from the territory of Russia."
http://newsdaily.com.ua/post/775313

IF true, this could be a major event for Russians.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 06, 2015, 09:33:45 PM
It looks like this News Daily is an aggregator rather than a reported site.

 I sincerely hope it's legit and the rats are leaving the sinking ship. :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 07, 2015, 01:20:11 AM
Perhaps I am wrong, but I see no evidence of that, at least so far. To my knowledge here have been no bills introduced on the Duma floor, although one could have been introduced in a committee, but eventually it would have to make it to the Duma’s Committee for International Affairs before it could be brought up for a vote. That committee chair, Aleksandr Romanovich, answered rumours last year (autumn 2014) about travel bans and he denied that any were in the works.

Rarely does the Federation Council (Senate) take up such issues until they first pass through the Duma, but the two committees of the FC that would oversee such legislation are the Federation Committee on Defense and Security and the Federation Committee for Foreign Affairs.

There is a ban on certain government officials, and certain employees of the Interior Ministry, Defense Ministry, and Ministry of Emergency Situations (the Russian version of FEMA) from foreign travel, but (knock on wood), so far I am not seeing any on the horizon. In politics however, that could change on a dime.

Such a ban could also be done by executive order, but Putin would rather shift blame work with the Duma on such a ban, were that to ever be a reality.

In this war between the two states, and it is at least a regional war between them, there is a lot of misinformation, and frankly by both sides although one should given the Russians the "over the top" award thus far. Unless we see evidence, it may be safe to assume that this was part of that war.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 07, 2015, 01:24:48 AM
The FC is busy trying to find ways to stem the financial bleeding in Crimea, assist the development of home-grown industry in the wake of Putin's "reverse sanctions" against Western products, and they're working on a bill to revise history: finding excuses to declare that Khrushchev and the Supreme Soviet of the CCCP illegally transferred to Crimea to Ukraine in 1954. They will declare it illegal, of course, leaving those with a brain to wonder what the hell took them so long if truly it was illegal--and why Soviet leaders of that era aren't declared in valid and sentenced to the Gulags posthumously (or in this case, posthumourously).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 07, 2015, 02:46:20 AM

Exactly. So you are condemning Putler for invading Ukraine, right?
What does that have to do with democracy?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 07, 2015, 02:50:09 AM
Perhaps I am wrong, but I see no evidence of that, at least so far. To my knowledge here have been no bills introduced on the Duma floor, although one could have been introduced in a committee, but eventually it would have to make it to the Duma’s Committee for International Affairs before it could be brought up for a vote. That committee chair, Aleksandr Romanovich, answered rumours last year (autumn 2014) about travel bans and he denied that any were in the works.

Rarely does the Federation Council (Senate) take up such issues until they first pass through the Duma, but the two committees of the FC that would oversee such legislation are the Federation Committee on Defense and Security and the Federation Committee for Foreign Affairs.

There is a ban on certain government officials, and certain employees of the Interior Ministry, Defense Ministry, and Ministry of Emergency Situations (the Russian version of FEMA) from foreign travel, but (knock on wood), so far I am not seeing any on the horizon. In politics however, that could change on a dime.

Such a ban could also be done by executive order, but Putin would rather shift blame work with the Duma on such a ban, were that to ever be a reality.

In this war between the two states, and it is at least a regional war between them, there is a lot of misinformation, and frankly by both sides although one should given the Russians the "over the top" award thus far. Unless we see evidence, it may be safe to assume that this was part of that war.
People considering the Ukrainian sources as reliable should now start to scratch their head.
If these stories which are easily verifiable are clearly fake, the reports regarding the conflict should also be considered as possibly faulty.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 07, 2015, 10:29:11 AM
Shadow:
Quote
If these stories which are easily verifiable are clearly fake, the reports regarding the conflict should also be considered as possibly faulty.

It actually isn't that difficult to sift through most of the fluff, from either side. As Ronald Reagan said, "trust but verify." While there are few Russian sources which are independent these days, there are lots of foreign journalists inside Russia and most are trustworthy, some are not. The same can be said of Ukraine.

It would be foolish however to wring our hands and dismiss everything, just because some things are faulty. In fact, although I don't give either side a blind pass, on the whole the most disinformation comes from the larger neighbor.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 07, 2015, 12:09:00 PM
Shadow:
It actually isn't that difficult to sift through most of the fluff, from either side. As Ronald Reagan said, "trust but verify." While there are few Russian sources which are independent these days, there are lots of foreign journalists inside Russia and most are trustworthy, some are not. The same can be said of Ukraine.

It would be foolish however to wring our hands and dismiss everything, just because some things are faulty. In fact, although I don't give either side a blind pass, on the whole the most disinformation comes from the larger neighbor.
As I have no insight in the total amount of information or disinformation I would not know who is giving more misinformation.
I do agree with you that any statement should always be verified, especially when it concerns a conflict as emotional as this one.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 07, 2015, 12:18:02 PM
As I have no insight in the total amount of information or disinformation I would not know who is giving more misinformation.
I do agree with you that any statement should always be verified, especially when it concerns a conflict as emotional as this one.


Exactly, like the US was responsible for a coup d'etat.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 07, 2015, 12:30:04 PM

Exactly, like the US was responsible for a coup d'etat.
Which one of them ?  8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 07, 2015, 01:31:39 PM
Mendy, I did see another report at a different site that comment that the Russian customs had run out of the declaration forms because of so many leaving with cash. They were saying about the same thing. I won't discount this right now but if it proves to be untrue that'll be another site that I delete.
 I have little tolerance for propaganda from either side.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 07, 2015, 01:42:19 PM
Russia is hinting at a new Cold War over SWIFT. So what’s SWIFT?

In the last few days, the Russians have been making bellicose threats about what might happen if they are excluded from SWIFT. On Friday, the CEO of Russia’s second largest bank said,


If there is no Swift, there is no banking . . . relationship, it means that the countries are on the verge of war, or they are definitely in a cold war. … The next day, the Russian and American ambassadors would have to leave the capitals.

On Tuesday, Russia’s prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, expanded on this theme, saying


We’ll watch developments and if such decisions [to restrict access to SWIFT] are made, I want to note that our economic reaction and generally any other reaction will be without limits.

Senior government officials are very careful in their choice of language. When Medvedev says that (a) the reaction will not only be an economic one, and (b) that it will be “without limits” he is suggesting that Russia might treat any blocking of Russian banks’ access to SWIFT as justifying a very serious escalation on Russia’s part. To be clear — Russia would not engage in nuclear hostilities if it were frozen out of SWIFT. More likely, Medvedev is suggesting that Russia would move from its current stance of passive hostility to the West to a combination of specific retaliations (perhaps through manipulating gas supplies to Western Europe) with a far more active hostility of the kind that it displayed before the fall of the Berlin Wall.

For the rest of this interesting article click the link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/01/28/russia-is-hinting-at-a-new-cold-war-over-swift-so-whats-swift/

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 07, 2015, 03:00:50 PM
No SWIFT means denying the theives a place to stash their loot.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Shadow on March 08, 2015, 04:31:45 AM
No SWIFT means denying the theives a place to stash their loot.
No SWIFT means no American company will get paid for their work in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 08, 2015, 08:52:24 AM
Interesting stuff from Jim Willie, about Russia/Ukraine/USA and many other matters:

UKRAINE WAR

The war following the coup d’etat in Kiev by the Fascists has been a dismal failure on its face. The entire capture of Kiev was led in clandestine manner by both Langley mercenaries and Soros mercenaries, aided in no small way by Masswipewad operatives from the Southeast corner of the Mediterranean. However, it has had many motives, listed as harangue or indictment, blessed by EU Commissioners. 1) Create a scorched earth buffer for massive criminal activity (drug trafficking, money laundering, white women trafficking, human organ trafficking, Nigerian cash fraud). Separately is the natural gas pilferage from siphoning. 2) Break any marriage between Europe and Russia. The Eurasian Trade Zone will happen, with or without a war in the decrepit nation. 3) Interrupt the Gazprom pipelines. The alternate route has already been done through Turkey. 4) Introduce Monsanto seeds for the grand European bread basket. The resistance to GMO foods is far more strident outside the industrial nations. 5) Raid Kiev gold. They bought at most a couple months time. 6) Pilfer IMF aid. No more IMF aid packages will be approved, especially since attached to war policy in unprecendented shameful manner. Surely more. The ultimate extreme outcome in backlash from the Ukraine War, which has been lost, is the eventual break-up of the European Union and the collapse of the common Euro currency region. It is coming like night follows day. The high pressure tactics used by the USGovt, combined with bribery and lush contracts, will be recognized and publicized, then used against the US. The belligerence displayed by the USGovt, including smashed truces in direct blatant manner, are being recognized. The United States will earn isolation as a rogue nation.

The result of the failed war will be an economic breakdown in Ukraine, shortage of almost everything including food (but not weapons or ammunition), hyper inflation on prices, plenty of cadavers for the underground human organ trafficking, culminating in a new equally bad regime laden with yet more corruption. The Hryvnia currency is imploding right now, a sign of the national failure. However, the bigger loss will be Europe’s major nations all turning their backs on the United States, the warmongering secretive bellicose player, the magnificent rogue nation on the block. Even the direct US-UK role with ISIS supervision is being unmasked. The US will suffer grotesque isolation, then quarantine, finally liquidation as it must manage in a world without friends or allies, unless one counts UK and Izzriel. The US will be down to the core axis of fascism for allies, which aint saying much.

RUSSIAN SANCTIONS

The Europeans are the unwilling partners in the sanctions. It is like the EU member nation leadership crew made the sanctions agreement call with the US master bellicosia, even while knowing full well they were to sit on spiked chairs, certain to be impailed. The immediate reaction was for the Kremlin to abandon the USDollar, then convert Petro-Dollars into Rubles and Gold bullion. The propaganda was laughable (although swallowed almost whole), that the Kremlin was selling gold to buffet their Ruble, draining their reserves. The truth is more like dumping the USTreasury Bonds to fortify the Ruble, while converting Oil sales proceeds into more Gold reserves. The other major effect was to encourage far more teamwork between Moscow and Beijing, a marriage of trade and finance whose nuptials are written on newly fashioned capitalist scrolls. Only the truly stupid in the US morass call Russia and China communist, when the US has turned vibrant rabid fascist.

The rapid development on non-USD platforms is both impressive and profound, many linking Beijing to Moscow. The backfire of the Russian food ban on EU farm products will eventually bankrupt numerous large agricultural businesses in Southern Europe. Red ink flows as fast as unsold farm output rots. Resentment of leaders for following the unelected EU Commissars has grown loud and shrill. Expect China to buy up the struggling farm businesses, then to divert one third of the farm output to China, amidst hue and cry. Pitchforks might be soon seen at government office steps. Already the French have dumped livestock manure on Paris official office steps. Russia has forged new deals with South American food suppliers. China is enjoying the lower oil price, not being a producer. Watch even the large US energy firms sidestep the sanctions eventually, or simply trample the sanctions in bold steps.

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/03.15/wound.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on March 08, 2015, 09:44:28 AM
Interesting stuff from Jim Willie, about Russia/Ukraine/USA and many other matters:

UKRAINE WAR

The war following the coup d’etat in Kiev by the Fascists blah blah blah...

More mumbo jumbo reading material for those stupid putin supporters to masturbate over.  :puke:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 08, 2015, 10:01:21 AM
He is right Nat.  None of that is true.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2015, 10:29:47 AM
More mumbo jumbo reading material for those stupid putin supporters to masturbate over.  :puke:


I thought you were in Ukraine.....and now masturbation is on your mind? 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 08, 2015, 10:47:28 AM
There you go again trying to think...   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 08, 2015, 10:56:47 AM
Which one of them ?  8)


Take your pick.  :thumbsup:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 08, 2015, 11:32:45 AM
Natural:
Quote
The war following the coup d’etat in Kiev by the Fascists has been a dismal failure on its face.

Dear Lord, there is a wealth of both arrogance and ignorance in that one sentence.

Fact: Yanukovich was VOTED out in a Parliament that consisted of a MAJORITY of his own Party of Regions.

As to Fascists: the so-called extreme nationalists have not done well in any election since the change of government. So much for a "fascist" coup.

Speaking of a coup d'etat:

- there was a coup in Ukraine, but it wasn't in Kyiv.

- there was an overnight regime change by armed force, but it was Crimea, no in Kyiv.

- there was a coup in which an elected government was taken over by force and replaced overnight, led by a self-appointed new Prime Minsiter (a Russian citizen, not Ukrainian) who then gathered old ministers back in, under armed "little green men" just long enough to vote themselves out, and his new group in. Where? Crimea.




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 08, 2015, 12:08:23 PM

- there was a coup in which an elected government was taken over by force and replaced overnight, led by a self-appointed new Prime Minsiter (a Russian citizen, not Ukrainian) who then gathered old ministers back in, under armed "little green men" just long enough to vote themselves out, and his new group in. Where? Crimea.

I don't expect People like you to agree, I know how you feel and you get to present Your opinions here in abundance. But save for a few of us here, an outsider might conclude from all the posts on RWD, that Russia really is the aggressor, Putin is to blame for just about everything bad in the world, etc.

About Crimea; it was an emergency. Russia had to take quick action to both save the marine base and the ethnic Russians there from the terrorist, lest they face the same fate as those in Odessa. A great majority voted yes to belong to Russia, like it had before it was given to Ukraine (without a referendum, right?). It was the plan of the Empire of Chaos to take over the naval base. It failed. The rest will fail too. And at the end the US dollar will fail. As you may know I have Family in Crimea. They are happy to be safe from the tragedy happening in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 08, 2015, 12:17:56 PM
As you may know I have Family in Crimea. They are happy to be safe from the tragedy happening in Ukraine.

Don't you love to watch the video's of them fighting over food such as bananas in the stores..

 Yeah life in Krym is a bowl of cherries..  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on March 08, 2015, 01:56:55 PM
I don't expect People like you to agree, I know how you feel and you get to present Your opinions here in abundance. But save for a few of us here, an outsider might conclude from all the posts on RWD, that Russia really is the aggressor, Putin is to blame for just about everything bad in the world, etc.

About Crimea; it was an emergency. Russia had to take quick action to both save the marine base and the ethnic Russians there from the terrorist, lest they face the same fate as those in Odessa. A great majority voted yes to belong to Russia, like it had before it was given to Ukraine (without a referendum, right?). It was the plan of the Empire of Chaos to take over the naval base. It failed. The rest will fail too. And at the end the US dollar will fail. As you may know I have Family in Crimea. They are happy to be safe from the tragedy happening in Ukraine.

Are there other Norwegians on the forum with different opinions about the Russian/Ukraine war?

BTW, get your kids vaccinated.  Most of the rest of the world don't agree with your conspiracy theories.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 08, 2015, 01:57:47 PM
Are there other Norwegians on the forum with different opinions about the Russian/Ukraine war?

BTW, get your kids vaccinated.  Most of the rest of the world don't agree with your conspiracy theories.

 


Have you been able to speak full sentences with your wife yet?  You know, stuff like, "this is a dog". 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 08, 2015, 02:27:17 PM
Are there other Norwegians on the forum with different opinions about the Russian/Ukraine war?

BTW, get your kids vaccinated.  Most of the rest of the world don't agree with your conspiracy theories.

 

Words of wisdom from an elderly, haha. Readers note the immature personal attacks, bringing up unrelated matters and most of all, not a Word on-topic.

But not to worry, I know that most Americans refuse to let themselves stoop this low.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on March 08, 2015, 02:45:36 PM

Have you been able to speak full sentences with your wife yet?  You know, stuff like, "this is a dog". 

As a matter of fact, yes we speak mostly in English now, and our daughter even more so.  Nothing desperate about it.  Find the right woman, and a little effort on her part with ESL classes and presto, the problem is solved.  We never had to depend on translators to communicate except for things that were complicated or technical.  She had English in her undergraduate studies at the University so it wasn't starting from scratch.  Plus her mother, brother, and son speaks English, so after we met, they tutored her as well.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 08, 2015, 05:42:05 PM
...an outsider might conclude from all the posts on RWD, that Russia really is the aggressor,

It is.  It wasn't the USA that invaded Crimea.

Putin is to blame for just about everything bad in the world, etc.

Nobody has ever said that - we all know that Kim Jong-Un is responsible for some of it.  :devil:

About Crimea; it was an emergency. Russia had to take quick action to both save the marine base and the ethnic Russians there from the terrorist, lest they face the same fate as those in Odessa.

What on earth have you been smoking?  Ukraine had recently extended the lease on the naval base for an extra 25 years (to 2042), so why would it need saving?  As for Odessa - get your facts straight.  Nothing terrible happened in Odessa until AFTER the invasion of Crimea.  In any case, ethnic Russians were never in danger.

A great majority voted yes to belong to Russia, like it had before it was given to Ukraine (without a referendum, right?).

You seem to conveniently forget that a large part of western Russia was originally part of the Kievan Rus, ruled from what is now Ukraine.  Russia, as a country, is centuries younger than Ukraine.  Added to which, how can anyone consider valid a referendum where the status quo is not an option, and where voter turnout numbers were falsified on such a grand scale that even the official poll counts took them off their website when they realised that the true numbers weren't going to give the result that they wanted had been ordered to provide?  Not forgetting, of course, that the numbers finally released showed that the voter turnout in certain areas obviously included all babes in arms, domestic pets and passing dolphins.

It was the plan of the Empire of Chaos to take over the naval base. It failed. The rest will fail too. And at the end the US dollar will fail.

"Empire of Chaos?"  Really?  Who writes your script?  If you think the US dollar will fail, what currency will replace it?  Obviously not the Norwegian Krone, which you've dismissed in an earlier post, and certainly not the Rouble - the Yuan, perhaps?


As you may know I have Family in Crimea. They are happy to be safe from the tragedy happening in Ukraine.

Yes, we know.  I'm glad they're safe - even though Kerch is still part of Ukraine, despite what ONE country believes.  I just wish that applied to the families and friends of ALL posters on this forum.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 08, 2015, 05:55:15 PM
Natural:
Dear Lord, there is a wealth of both arrogance and ignorance in that one sentence.

Fact: Yanukovich was VOTED out in a Parliament that consisted of a MAJORITY of his own Party of Regions.

As to Fascists: the so-called extreme nationalists have not done well in any election since the change of government. So much for a "fascist" coup.

Speaking of a coup d'etat:

- there was a coup in Ukraine, but it wasn't in Kyiv.

- there was an overnight regime change by armed force, but it was Crimea, no in Kyiv.

- there was a coup in which an elected government was taken over by force and replaced overnight, led by a self-appointed new Prime Minsiter (a Russian citizen, not Ukrainian) who then gathered old ministers back in, under armed "little green men" just long enough to vote themselves out, and his new group in. Where? Crimea.


But, dear lord, what do you expect from someone who refuses to vaccinate his children because a pharma conspiracy?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on March 08, 2015, 06:15:29 PM

"Empire of Chaos?"  Really?  Who writes your script?  If you think the US dollar will fail, what currency will replace it?  Obviously not the Norwegian Krone, which you've dismissed in an earlier post, and certainly not the Rouble - the Yuan, perhaps?


I guess The Natural is hoarding gold. 

If the apocalypse comes and makes his gold the only currency, I hope he has it secured at home and not in brokerage accounts because paper receipts will have little meaning in such a case.   If so, I hope he has a well fortified home, several weapons to defend his stash, plus long sightlines for firing.  Frankly I cannot imagine such a situation ever happening.  If so, canned food and medicine would be more valuable than gold. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on March 08, 2015, 07:13:49 PM
I have been away for a few days.   I do not see any discussion about Russia's plans to cut all government salaries by 10%  and reduce total number of government employees. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 08, 2015, 07:38:50 PM
  Watch even the large US energy firms sidestep the sanctions eventually, or simply trample the sanctions in bold steps.



Well some say that large companies own the US.  I'm curious what energy firm the author is referring to in particular with this statement.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 08, 2015, 10:43:38 PM
I have been away for a few days.   I do not see any discussion about Russia's plans to cut all government salaries by 10%  and reduce total number of government employees.

So much for sanctions having no effect on their behavior . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 09, 2015, 12:31:00 AM
Putin admits Kremlin's orchestration of annexation of Crimea

Russian President Vladimir Putin disclosed details of preparations for the annexation of Crimea. According to him, the preparations started when Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych was fleeing Ukraine in the early hours of February 23, 2014.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1053203-putin-admits-kremlins-orchestration-of-annexation-of-crimea.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 09, 2015, 12:38:03 AM
Russian Imports Fall 37% as Sanctions and Slowdown Hit Trade
Imports into Russia from countries outside the former Soviet Union fell 36.9 percent to $22.9 billion in the first two months of 2015 compared with the same period last year, according to customs data released Friday.

Some of the biggest drops in imports were seen among food products.

Russia's economy is expected to contract sharply this year and trade has been hit by a food import ban imposed by Moscow on the United States and European Union countries last year in retaliation against Western sanctions on Russia over the Ukraine crisis.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-imports-fall-37-as-sanctions-and-slowdown-hit-trade/517144.html

Swiss Expand Russia Blacklist to Stop Sanctions Evasion
Reuters
Mar. 08 2015 14:07
Last edited 14:07


ZURICH — The Swiss government has added 19 people and nine organizations to a list intended to prevent the country from being used as a conduit to circumvent Western sanctions against Russia.

Switzerland decided last March not to join sanctions that the EU has imposed over the Ukraine crisis but has been keen to avoid undermining them. Although not a member of the European Union, it is linked by agreements governing trade and other measures.

The EU published a new blacklist for fresh sanctions in February.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/swiss-expand-russia-blacklist-to-stop-sanctions-evasion/517143.html

U.S. Froze Hundreds of Millions of Dollars of Russian Tycoons' Sanctioned Bank Assets

The United States has frozen about $640 million of assets belonging to banks controlled by three billionaire banking tycoons with close links to President Vladimir Putin as part of sanctions against Russia enacted last year, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday citing U.S. Treasury data.

The sanctioned banks include Bank Rossiya, whose biggest shareholder is Yuri Kovalchuk, and SMP Bank, which is majority owned by brothers Arkady and Boris Rotenberg
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/u-s-froze-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-of-russian-tycoons-sanctioned-bank-assets/517110.html




























Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 09, 2015, 01:49:47 AM
Natural, I noticed that you conveniently disregarded the post from a few weeks ago in which I, for well over a year, defended Mr. Putin on the subject of Syria. Yet, you criticize the number of posts I have here. Simples: get off your ass, and write your own.

Quote
A great majority voted yes to belong to Russia, like it had before it was given to Ukraine (without a referendum, right?

Ignorance truly is bliss. There were only two options on the ballot of the Crimean referendum. Do you know what they were?

A lot of things were done in the Soviet Union without a referendum of the people. Does that invalidate every Soviet policy and action?

Speaking of referendums, are you ready to call on Mr. Putin to recognize and honour the independence referendums of Dagestan and Chechnya?


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 09, 2015, 01:54:19 AM
I guess The Natural is hoarding gold. 

If the apocalypse comes and makes his gold the only currency, I hope he has it secured at home and not in brokerage accounts because paper receipts will have little meaning in such a case.   If so, I hope he has a well fortified home, several weapons to defend his stash, plus long sightlines for firing.  Frankly I cannot imagine such a situation ever happening.  If so, canned food and medicine would be more valuable than gold.

Hoarding and hoarding. I have a few grams left and a few kilos of silver. Prices are too high now for gold as our currency is down. But if I at the present moment made my money in US dollars, I would buy and hold it physically and not on paper. It's cheap in dollars now, but that situation won't last. You wait and see.

Your concern for my well-being as you stated here, is bringing tears to my eyes. I'm sure it is from the bottom of your heart, Gator.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 09, 2015, 02:05:12 AM
Natural, I noticed that you conveniently disregarded the post from a few weeks ago in which I, for well over a year, defended Mr. Putin on the subject of Syria. Yet, you criticize the number of posts I have here. Simples: get off your ass, and write your own.


Listen, I don't have time to read all posts here. There's also many other sites I would like to dig into, but I have a job, a family, working out and so on, so I can't be online here 100% like some people appear to do. Sometimes I go on here and state my opinion. That's it. But I refuse to be dragged into endless demands to prove this or that and waste a lot of valuable time, because as we all know, the opposition will never accept it, no matter what.

Good job if you defended Putin on the Syria situation.

I did not criticize the number of posts you have made here. Where do you read that into my response? I value differences of opinion and that people can make them here, you included, of course.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 09, 2015, 02:53:05 AM
Sure thing, pal.

By the way, do you know the answers to my three simple questions?

There were only two options on the ballot of the Crimean referendum. Do you know what they were?

A lot of things were done in the Soviet Union without a referendum of the people. Does that invalidate every Soviet policy and action?

Speaking of referendums, are you ready to call on Mr. Putin to recognize and honour the independence referendums of Dagestan and Chechnya?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 09, 2015, 03:26:22 AM
Sure thing, pal.

By the way, do you know the answers to my three simple questions?

There were only two options on the ballot of the Crimean referendum. Do you know what they were?

A lot of things were done in the Soviet Union without a referendum of the people. Does that invalidate every Soviet policy and action?

Speaking of referendums, are you ready to call on Mr. Putin to recognize and honour the independence referendums of Dagestan and Chechnya?

I don't know the wording on the ballot, but people I know there are very content with the result. A lot of things are done everywhere without referendums. Also here in the totally "free" west.

About Dagestand and Chechnya I have no opinion because I haven't checked the background and what's happening there. I'm sure you have.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Hammer2722 on March 09, 2015, 07:19:25 AM
I don't know the wording on the ballot, but people I know there are very content with the result. A lot of things are done everywhere without referendums. Also here in the totally "free" west.

About Dagestand and Chechnya I have no opinion because I haven't checked the background and what's happening there. I'm sure you have.
So, in other words, you are talking out of your rear end just like most of the other Putin sheeple on this forum. Well done sir!!!  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 09, 2015, 09:08:59 AM
So, in other words, you are talking out of your rear end just like most of the other Putin sheeple on this forum. Well done sir!!!  :clapping:

Here we go again. Another tough guy using tough language but never coming close to discussing whatever his little brain get so worked up about.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on March 09, 2015, 09:44:25 AM
Here we go again. Another tough guy using tough language but never coming close to discussing whatever his little brain get so worked up about.

And you don't get all worked up when some poster mocks your idol the midget Putin?  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 09, 2015, 09:53:19 AM
And you don't get all worked up when some poster mocks your idol the midget Putin?  :wallbash:

 :wallbash: That's where you got your brain damage from. Maybe stop, or are you aiming for vegetable?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 09, 2015, 10:31:53 AM
Natural:
Quote
I don't know the wording on the ballot, but people I know there are very content with the result.

I know that you do not. For your edification, there were only two options on the ballot and both resulted in leaving Ukraine. For those who wanted to remain, there was no vote. That is why so many Tatars and native Ukrainians boycotted the forced referendum.

I know plenty in Crimea who were not content with the vote.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 09, 2015, 12:42:12 PM
So, in other words, you are talking out of your rear end just like most of the other Putin sheeple on this forum. Well done sir!!!  :clapping:

Its the truth.  You voice your opinion.  Numerous people tell you that you are wrong.  You persist in your argument.  At least you are man enough to say that you are willfully ignorant and don't care what the facts are.  Respect.,
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 09, 2015, 01:56:39 PM
Natural:
I know that you do not. For your edification, there were only two options on the ballot and both resulted in leaving Ukraine. For those who wanted to remain, there was no vote. That is why so many Tatars and native Ukrainians boycotted the forced referendum.

I know plenty in Crimea who were not content with the vote.

Well, leaving Ukraine was exactly what the majority wanted and fortunately they got it, lest they too would get the Donbass treatment. This is over. Crimea is Russian and will remain so no matter what RWD or Washington say or do. The warm water naval port is also secured which is of vital importance for Russia. Imagine if the madmen in Washington seized that one, what would happen then?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 09, 2015, 02:00:03 PM
Given the Russians had a Black Sea fleet, leased from Ukraine, and had a long term contract, how, exactly, was the US going to seize the sea?  Moreover, the biggest port on the Black Sea is not in Ukraine, but in Russia.
 
Please tell me why the Black Sea, which can be locked by a NATO member, is of "strategic importance".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 09, 2015, 02:01:49 PM
Name names which madmen in Washington.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 09, 2015, 02:34:30 PM
Given the Russians had a Black Sea fleet, leased from Ukraine, and had a long term contract, how, exactly, was the US going to seize the sea?  Moreover, the biggest port on the Black Sea is not in Ukraine, but in Russia.
 
Please tell me why the Black Sea, which can be locked by a NATO member, is of "strategic importance".

Quote:

"Put simply, without a naval base in Crimea Russia is finished as a global military power"

Sounds like a good enough reason.

(I have a feeling an endless line of new questions will come..... ;) )

From Forbes.com. I can't paste and copy on this machine, so you'll just have to take my word for it, or dig it up yourself. The article (which sounds anti-Putin to me) is called 5 things you should know about Putin's incursion into Crimea.

(seems you have a little copy-cat there with the questions Boe, hehe)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 09, 2015, 04:29:46 PM
And you don't get all worked up when some poster mocks your idol the midget Putin?  :wallbash:
in Ukraine and all you can talk about is midgets and masturbation....are you one weird dude or what?


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 09, 2015, 04:34:16 PM
Quote:

"Put simply, without a naval base in Crimea Russia is finished as a global military power"

Sounds like a good enough reason.

 
I thought the same thing as the article you quoted...Boethius disagrees with me on that point.    Although the Russians had a contract to stay there to 2042...25 years goes quick, just think of the how fast the last 25 went...and after that 25 years was up, they could have easily been left out in the cold without their ports as NATO might have moved in by then....they were taking no chances regarding what they felt was important to their security. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 09, 2015, 05:16:46 PM
I thought the same thing as the article you quoted...Boethius disagrees with me on that point.    Although the Russians had a contract to stay there to 2042...25 years goes quick, just think of the how fast the last 25 went...and after that 25 years was up, they could have easily been left out in the cold without their ports as NATO might have moved in by then....they were taking no chances regarding what they felt was important to their security. 

For crying out loud!  You obviously don't remember the discussion (maybe May or June last year, from memory) about how Russia is developing an additional Black Sea naval base in its OWN territory, so that at some time in the future it won't have to rely on Sevastopol.  Nobody knows what will happen in 25 years - by then Russia may be a part of NATO, for all we know ... or it may no longer exist in the form that it is today.  Either way, that is still no justification for the Russian Government (or Putin by himself) to have acted the way they have in Ukraine over the last year.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 09, 2015, 05:34:30 PM
For crying out loud!  You obviously don't remember the discussion (maybe May or June last year, from memory) about how Russia is developing an additional Black Sea naval base in its OWN territory, so that at some time in the future it won't have to rely on Sevastopol.  Nobody knows what will happen in 25 years - by then Russia may be a part of NATO, for all we know ... or it may no longer exist in the form that it is today.  Either way, that is still no justification for the Russian Government (or Putin by himself) to have acted the way they have in Ukraine over the last year.

Obviously you forgot the discussion.   As I recall, one point that was brought out was that the area was not optimum for a port.   In addition to that if the current ports were leased to a hostile power to Russia, that would be an unacceptable outcome to them.  As one of possibly several reasons they believe security is a justification. ..you are not expected to agree...but it doesn't matter.

Yes who knows what will be in 25 years...but leaders thinking long term don't leave things like this to chance.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 09, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Obviously you forgot the discussion.   As I recall, one point that was brought out was that the area was not optimum for a port.   In addition to that if the current ports were leased to a hostile power to Russia, that would be an unacceptable outcome to them.  As one of possibly several reasons they believe security is a justification. ..you are not expected to agree...but it doesn't matter.

No, I didn't forget it.  Various areas were mentioned, and the pros and cons discussed.  Belvis and (I think) Ranetka both agreed that nowhere in the Sea of Azov would be suitable because it is generally too shallow and the Kerch Strait can ice up in winter, but the coast north of Sochi can easily be developed (if Russia is prepared to spend the billions necessary).  Novorossiysk already has a naval base (which I have seen for myself).  The advantage of Sevastopol is that it is several hours' steaming closer to the Mediterranean.
Nobody is at war with Russia; nobody is threatening to invade it; nobody has troops on the ground in Russia, or even close to it.  That's exactly the opposite of what Russia is doing, and has been doing, for quite some time.

As for ports being leased to a "hostile power to Russia" - at the moment, there is no such thing.  Realistically, the only ports worth the name are Odessa and Mariupol.  Can you seriously see the Ukrainian Government leasing these to any other country?  In any case, how can Russia justify stating that anything military is "an unacceptable outcome to them?"  Soviet bases in East Germany and other places behind the Iron Curtain were "unacceptable" to the rest of the world, but that didn't stop them.  The Russian naval base at Sevastopol is "unacceptable" to a lot of people, but nobody has bombed it or otherwise tried to expel the Russians from it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 09, 2015, 06:09:15 PM
The discussion is moot anyways:

1) Russia is not a global military power. The USSR was a world power and they gave the damn port away (under lease arrangement).

2) Bo is right maybe 50 years ago the port was of strategic importance but not now. NATO, US or any sea power could sit off the Aegean or closer and pick the Russian rust buckets off as they emerged with little or no trouble. In fact, the Black Sea Fleet, I use the term loosely as it can't really be considered a fleet, could be picked off in port from land based assets from two or three different countries surrounding the Black Sea nowadays if the US or NATO were so inclined.

3) The Port is just an excuse, or one of the excuses, used by Moscow to justify invasion and annexation. It is Russian occupied Ukraine for now. We can only hope it'll be liberated sometime in the future.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 09, 2015, 06:36:37 PM


As for ports being leased to a "hostile power to Russia" - at the moment, there is no such thing.  Realistically, the only ports worth the name are Odessa and Mariupol.  Can you seriously see the Ukrainian Government leasing these to any other country?  In any case, how can Russia justify stating that anything military is "an unacceptable outcome to them?"  Soviet bases in East Germany and other places behind the Iron Curtain were "unacceptable" to the rest of the world, but that didn't stop them.  The Russian naval base at Sevastopol is "unacceptable" to a lot of people, but nobody has bombed it or otherwise tried to expel the Russians from it.


I think Russia sees us as a hostile power. 


Follow me here for a moment.  Armed warfare is one way to get your way in the world.  The western nations really don't have that option as it pertains to Russia, as with nukes it is just too risky.  So instead we (the USA) have been able to isolate and freeze Russia to some extent, we have the reserve currency which we can print, and buy a lot of influence with it, without really paying.   We intervene around the world when it has some benefit for us and this often harms Russia's allies.   Russia exists, and they are powerful and not going to just lay down and be sliced and diced without trying to prevent it, by whatever means they can. Frankly, I like our system of government better, but that is besides the point.


Slowly cutting Russia out more and more is what appears to be happening.  They can see it, and appear to be attempting to stem the bleeding with this move.  This could backfire, although it doesn't appear it will. Western nations will not risk a wide war over Ukraine, perhaps they will likely accept a partial loss, covertly arm Ukraine somewhat, and hope to weaken Russia while Ukraine is decimated in the process.  Although it goes without saying, I'll say it anyway.....this is only my opinion. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 09, 2015, 07:33:20 PM
Except Russia has a gold mine in the Kolyma and lots of oil.  If it developed a real economy built on human capital, it could compete with Western or Oriental economies.  Instead it is a gun running mafia state with a gas station that is the aggressor in several small regional wars.  This fact Novorossiya scum ignore while blovaiting imaginary offenses the USA committed.  Odd.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on March 09, 2015, 11:52:46 PM
Oh dear! Looks like they are running out of funds to do corporate welfare in Putinland...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/business/dealbook/in-russia-the-well-for-corporate-bailouts-might-run-dry.html?_r=1

 :shock:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 10, 2015, 12:43:57 AM
Now would be the time to hit them hard with the SWIFT Hammer! :crackwhip:  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 10, 2015, 01:54:51 AM
Neville:
Quote
Slowly cutting Russia out more and more is what appears to be happening. 


Actually quite the opposite. Russia had been included in recent years in the WTO (thanks by the way to the USA), had been invited to the G8 (thanks to the USA), and trade had increased dramatically between Russia and the USA. Meanwhile the USA was paying for cleanup of Russia's nuke waste and old chemical plants.

In 2012, the last year for which figures are available, Russia accepted USA foreign aid to the tune of almost $444 million dollars. Those funds were paid to Russia for projects to improve Russian medical infrastructure, improve educational facilities, AIDS prevention and environment cleanup projects. Most Russians are unaware of those figures, but they are more likely to know about the $29 million the USA granted to Russian (legally registered) human rights groups.

Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to exactly how Russia was slowly being cut out?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on March 10, 2015, 04:38:11 AM
In 2012, the last year for which figures are available, Russia accepted USA foreign aid to the tune of almost $444 million dollars. Those funds were paid to Russia for projects to improve Russian medical infrastructure, improve educational facilities, AIDS prevention and environment cleanup projects. Most Russians are unaware of those figures, but they are more likely to know about the $29 million the USA granted to Russian (legally registered) human rights groups.


Several countries has supported work in Russia on securing Nuclear Waste from submarines from the Soviet times. Since 1995 Norway has spent over 200 million US dollars on this work. Close to Our border on the Andreijev Bay is a base considered one of the most Dangerous Places on Earth With Nuclear Waste. It's estimated to cost 1,12 billion Euros to clean up the mess and the environmental organization Bellona fear this work will stop because of the current political situation between the west and Russia.
This area is however not subject to western sanctions. It's in Our interest to get it cleaned up and secured.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/Bellona-frykter-at-Ukraina-krisen-bremser-atomopprydding-i-nord-7902611.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 10, 2015, 06:07:10 AM
I thought the same thing as the article you quoted...Boethius disagrees with me on that point.    Although the Russians had a contract to stay there to 2042...25 years goes quick, just think of the how fast the last 25 went...and after that 25 years was up, they could have easily been left out in the cold without their ports as NATO might have moved in by then....they were taking no chances regarding what they felt was important to their security. 


Fathertime!


Twenty-five years?


Gee, don't you think that 25 years would be enough time for a new generation to take over these Soviet relics and start a more civilized society?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 10, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
I wish
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 10, 2015, 06:16:12 AM
Who cares what you wish.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2015, 06:54:52 AM
Neville:

Actually quite the opposite. Russia had been included in recent years in the WTO (thanks by the way to the USA), had been invited to the G8 (thanks to the USA), and trade had increased dramatically between Russia and the USA. Meanwhile the USA was paying for cleanup of Russia's nuke waste and old chemical plants.

In 2012, the last year for which figures are available, Russia accepted USA foreign aid to the tune of almost $444 million dollars. Those funds were paid to Russia for projects to improve Russian medical infrastructure, improve educational facilities, AIDS prevention and environment cleanup projects. Most Russians are unaware of those figures, but they are more likely to know about the $29 million the USA granted to Russian (legally registered) human rights groups.

Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to exactly how Russia was slowly being cut out?


offering them a little financial welfare if they go along with our policies is not actually working with them...at least for the long term.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2015, 06:56:06 AM

Twenty-five years?


Gee, don't you think that 25 years would be enough time for a new generation to take over these Soviet relics and start a more civilized society?


...no doubt a lot of things could happen in 25 years...but a lot of those things could be bad too....


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 10, 2015, 07:28:54 AM

Twenty-five years?


Gee, don't you think that 25 years would be enough time for a new generation to take over these Soviet relics and start a more civilized society?

I think that the Russians honor only the contracts that they feel are in their best interest.  The people in the Kremlin felt that Ukraine was already theirs and that they were not honor bound by the lease agreement or by the Budapest Memorandum.  Ownership, in the minds of the Kremlin leaders, does not hold them accountable for honoring these agreements.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 10, 2015, 09:54:49 AM
Quote:

"Put simply, without a naval base in Crimea Russia is finished as a global military power"

Sounds like a good enough reason.

(I have a feeling an endless line of new questions will come..... ;) )

From Forbes.com. I can't paste and copy on this machine, so you'll just have to take my word for it, or dig it up yourself. The article (which sounds anti-Putin to me) is called 5 things you should know about Putin's incursion into Crimea.

(seems you have a little copy-cat there with the questions Boe, hehe)

The Forbes article is inaccurate, as Russia already had 2 warm sea ports within Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 10, 2015, 12:05:33 PM

offering them a little financial welfare if they go along with our policies is not actually working with them...at least for the long term.


Fathertime!


Despite your statement, I believe you to be more intelligent than that. The WTO, for example, was far, far, far, more than "a little financial welfare." It was, as Mr. Putin noted at the time, an example of the US and Russia beginning to work together. That alone was an economic game changer for Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on March 10, 2015, 01:07:22 PM
Todays congressional hearing on Ukraine.  One of many transcripts of testimony.   This one in particular seemed to make a lot of sense.

http://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Herbst_Testimony_REVISED2.pdf

I would be interested in hearing Mendy's comments on the testimony (among others).

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on March 10, 2015, 03:08:28 PM
Obviously you forgot the discussion.   As I recall, one point that was brought out was that the area was not optimum for a port.   

What was 'wrong' with Novorossiysk ? No need to cross a third nation's territory.

Ah yes, a diversionary issue was needed to allow Russians to think the economic crisis was all down to the 'wicked west'
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2015, 04:13:05 PM

Ah yes, a diversionary issue was needed to allow Russians to think the economic crisis was all down to the 'wicked west'


I might dismiss it there were just one or two countries talking about the 'wicked west' but there are a lot more than that.  just today we have Venezuela reacting to our aggressive actions with them.  Coincidentally I've also recently read they are making efforts to trade oil in Yuan and bypass dollars.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/10/us-venezuela-usa-idUSKBN0M61JK20150310 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/10/us-venezuela-usa-idUSKBN0M61JK20150310)
  Meanwhile China invests in Venezuela:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/08/china-venezuela-20bn-loans-financing-nicolas-maduro-beijing (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/08/china-venezuela-20bn-loans-financing-nicolas-maduro-beijing)


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on March 10, 2015, 04:29:01 PM

I might dismiss it there were just one or two countries talking about the 'wicked west' but there are a lot more than that. 

FT,

Sure, many nations try to promote their trade links / sphere of influence, but which nation has used military action in it's neighbours and handed out passports to one side in a conflict they were supposed to be 'peace-keeping' ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 10, 2015, 05:18:59 PM
I think that the Russians honor only the contracts that they feel are in their best interest.  The people in the Kremlin felt that Ukraine was already theirs and that they were not honor bound by the lease agreement or by the Budapest Memorandum.  Ownership, in the minds of the Kremlin leaders, does not hold them accountable for honoring these agreements.

I agree with this assessment.  Putin's words about Ukraine in the past that "it's not a real nation" showed his nefarious intention.

We've all discussed this a few times, and that is that by annexing Crimea and invading E. Ukraine under the pretext that it belonged to Russia once before, Russia has violated the peace which was established after WWII and opened a Pandora's box. 

Turkey the modern day equivalent of the Ottoman Empire, can now also lay historic claim to Crimea and their claim goes back farther than Russia's.  So under this revisionist way of doing things, Crimea goes to the Tatar's and Turks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 10, 2015, 05:20:17 PM
FT,

Sure, many nations try to promote their trade links / sphere of influence, but which nation has used military action in it's neighbours and handed out passports to one side in a conflict they were supposed to be 'peace-keeping' ?


as we are seeing, sometimes holding on to a sphere of influence is no small thing...sometimes wars are fought over these things...sometimes they are covert/lowkey....sometimes through finance...sometimes with bombs....sometimes all of the above...in part it depends on a countries options.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 10, 2015, 05:26:42 PM
So under this revisionist way of doing things, Crimea goes to the Tatar's and Turks.
We'll be hearing from the Scythians and Sarmatians next :-\:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png)
Scythia 100BC
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 10, 2015, 05:28:34 PM
We'll be hearing from the Scythians and Sarmatians next :-\:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png)
Scythia 100BC

Exactly.  And wasn't Crimea inhabited once by an ancient German tribe?  Oh, what a headache.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 10, 2015, 05:37:47 PM
Exactly.  And wasn't Crimea inhabited once by an ancient German tribe?  Oh, what a headache.
Germanic rather than German, the Goths originally from Sweden:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Chernyakhov.PNG)
Orange: 4th century AD
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 10, 2015, 05:38:49 PM
What was 'wrong' with Novorossiysk ? No need to cross a third nation's territory.

Too small.  8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 10, 2015, 05:44:57 PM
Germanic rather than German, the Goths originally from Sweden:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Chernyakhov.PNG)
Orange: 4th century AD

Since Scythia is not to my knowledge a current nation (I suspect that you will correct me as I get the feeling your history is better than mine  :P ) and Turkey is the modern day equivalent of the Ottoman Empire, it seems to me that if we are now rewarding territory to the surviving original nation, that Crimea would go to Turkey.  In fact I remember reading there was a treaty between Catherine the Great and the Ottoman Empire, and that if a dispute arose the territory would revert back to OE, which is now Turkey.  What do you think about this?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 10, 2015, 06:24:53 PM
Since Scythia is not to my knowledge a current nation
The Scythians have long disappeared from this world. They used to make beautiful zoomorphic gold jewelry:

(http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/66/b2/d1/66b2d1fc669834be126d469becafd0c2.jpg)

Quote
Turkey is the modern day equivalent of the Ottoman Empire, it seems to me that if we are now rewarding territory to the surviving original nation, that Crimea would go to Turkey.
There used to be Greek colonies there, too (Chersonesus et al.):

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Greek_colonies_of_the_Northern_Euxine_Sea_%28Black_Sea%29.svg/1142px-Greek_colonies_of_the_Northern_Euxine_Sea_%28Black_Sea%29.svg.png)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 10, 2015, 06:32:15 PM
The Scythians have long disappeared from this world. They used to make beautiful zoomorphic gold jewelry:

(http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/66/b2/d1/66b2d1fc669834be126d469becafd0c2.jpg)
There used to be Greek colonies there, too (Chersonesus et al.):

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Greek_colonies_of_the_Northern_Euxine_Sea_%28Black_Sea%29.svg/1142px-Greek_colonies_of_the_Northern_Euxine_Sea_%28Black_Sea%29.svg.png)

Yes, and IIRC Feodosya (Theodosia) was originally a Greek colony.  However the treaty between Catherine the Great and the Ottoman Empire would seem to have more importance then a former Colony.  What do you think about that?  Have you read the article, which was published by a newspaper in Turkey?


edit to add -- here is the link to the story

http://thewatchtowers.com/turkey-under-ottoman-empire-treaty-with-catherine-the-great-if-crimea-declares-independence-it-returns-to-turkey/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on March 10, 2015, 08:27:23 PM
The Scythians have long disappeared from this world.

Well, did they disappear or did they migrate and become assimilated with succeeding cultures? :)

I have heard that Ossetians are the closest modern day ancestors to the Scythians. Interesting that the kurgans become progressively younger extending from the Black Sea up towards Scandinavian countries.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 10, 2015, 08:35:29 PM
Wouldn't modern Ukrainians be the descendants of the Scythian tribes?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 10, 2015, 08:40:49 PM
Wouldn't modern Ukrainians be the descendants of the Scythian tribes?

I'm sure some of them certainly are.  Do you remember that "Scythian Treasures" from Crimea was on display in Amsterdam when Crimea was seized by Russia?  So I believe the status of those treasures is still up in the air.


edit to add

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/09/10/dutch-museum-returns-some-items-of-crimean-scythian-gold-to-kyiv/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on March 10, 2015, 08:52:35 PM
Wouldn't modern Ukrainians be the descendants of the Scythian tribes?

Not such a simple yes or no answer after such a long period of time. Modern day Ukraine and it's people were certainly influenced by the Scythians (genetically and geographically). Several different theories out there on the whole thing though. Many Slavs are haplogroup R1a, the predominant Scythian haplogroup.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 11, 2015, 01:07:04 PM
Ukraine calls for Russian documentary on Crimea to be sent to Hague Tribunal
Russian documentary contains contradictory claims by Russian President Vladimir Putin



The Ukrainian Prime Minister has asked for a Russian documentary trailer to be sent to the International Criminal Court in the Hague. The documentary is going to be broadcast on Russian television and in it, Vladimir Putin admits he planned to annex Crimea.

Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Prime Minister of Ukraine: "I ask the Ministry of Justice to send this trailer to the Hague Tribunal. It is important that the movie in its entirety is also sent to the Hague Tribunal - this film should be of interest to international prosecutors and investigators. It answers the question of who gave instructions to seize Ukrainian territory in Crimea and violations of international law, and who was responsible."

The documentary was produced by Kremlin-run Channel One news station, which the government uses as a mouthpiece to get it's message out to the masses. In the trailer, Putin says he planned to annex Crimea from Ukraine, even before a referendum was held.

Although the referendum was widely condemned by the international community as residents voted while hundreds of Russian soldiers stood around polling stations with their automatic rifles, Putin has up until now used the referendum as the main reason for annexing Crimea. But now it appears he has contradicted himself, but it's the not first time he's done so. He also claimed that Russian troops were not in Crimea last year before its annexation, only later to say that, 'of course' Russian troops were in Crimea.

The US Secretary of State recently because frustrated with his dealings with his Russian counterparts and said the following during a committee hearing:

John Kerry, US Secretary of State: "Russia is engaged in a rather remarkable period of the most overt and and extensive propaganda excursive that I've seen since the very height of the Cold War. And they have been persisting in their misrepresentations, lies -- whatever you want to call them -- about their activities there to my face, to the face of others on many different occasions."

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said that she quit her regular phone conversations with Putin because he had mislead her.  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://uatoday.tv/politics/ukraine-calls-for-russian-documentary-on-crimea-to-be-sent-to-hague-tribunal-414713.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 12, 2015, 08:36:47 PM

Pint-sized Putin tells women to 'squat down' so he doesn't look too short in photo

POOR old President Putin, all he tried to do was patronise, sorry, congratulate some ladies on International Women's Day but it didn't exactly go to plan.


To celebrate the global event a selection of short women were invited to the Kremlin in Moscow to meet with Vladimir for a photo opportunity.

However the President's cronies forgot to tell the women not to wear heels and as a result Putin's tiny stature was highlighted for all to see.

Standing only at about 5ft 6inches the pint-sized President was left red-faced as he was dwarfed by the women – many of whom were wearing heels.

Officials had forgotten to tell those attending that they could only be photographed with the President if they were wearing flat shoes.


An insider said: "The President of Russia Vladimir Putin traditionally invites a selection of Russian women to congratulate them on International Women's Day.

"Fourteen women were selected and invited to the Kremlin to take part in the official meeting with president. And in line with Kremlin rules, no one can be taller than he is to avoid causing embarrassment in pictures and video.

"That’s why his bodyguards are always shorter then he is, to give the impression Putin is a tall person."

Putin is believed to be somewhere between 165-170cm but hides the fact well by making sure he is only photographed with people smaller than he is.

The insider added: "They were told to try and squat down a little bit during the official photo session."

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/430311/Vladimir-Putin-Russian-president-short-height-women-rights
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 12, 2015, 11:15:51 PM
Seems Mad Vlad has lit a shuck and gone to ground...

Where is Putin? Russian leader’s absence sparks rumors.

washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/03/12/where-is-putin-russian-leaders-absence-sparks-rumors/)

Putin's disappearance implies a Russian dictatorship

..."It's time to do away with euphemisms like "authoritarian ruler" or "strongman". Putin is a dictator who runs Russia through fear and stealth. Whatever the reasons for his absence, the country can't function without him in the driver's seat. Irrational fears surface instead. And so do irrational hopes."...

http://www.smh.com.au/world/putins-disappearance-implies-a-russian-dictatorship-20150313-142tjo.html

Can Putin's Absence Indicate A Palace Coup In Moscow?

..."Recently media has been flooded with chatter surrounding Russian president Vladimir Putin’s absence from the public eye over the past week, with rumors suggesting that there might have been a palace coup in the Kremlin, and even far-fetched hypothesis that Putin is dead, or at least has health problems."...

forbes.com (http://www.forbes.com/sites/katyasoldak/2015/03/12/can-putins-absence-indicate-a-palace-coup-in-moscow/)

The very scary reality behind the silly rumors of Putin’s death

..."Rumors are swirling today about the possible illness — or even death — of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Mainstream media outlets have reported that he may be sick."...

http://www.vox.com/2015/3/12/8205193/putin-death-rumors

Rumors abound. Everything from he's suffered a stroke to he's hiking in the Appalachians. One thing's for sure, the Russian people are getting a bit antsy and their social media is going off the Richter scale.

Two things I've noted. Russian media hasn't picked up the story so far and there are reports of unusual  helicopter movement in and around the capital.

Maybe there's something to these rumors.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on March 12, 2015, 11:54:15 PM
Quote
Two things I've noted. Russian media hasn't picked up the story so far and there are reports of unusual  helicopter movement in and around the capital.

Maybe there's something to these rumors.

Brass

yes , it will be interesting to discover what is going on ,

it would be too ironic if  their were to be any truth in his stroke/ death 

i dont think ukraine is that lucky ,

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 13, 2015, 12:07:41 AM
IF any of these possibilities comes into play I suspect that the  next line up won't include Medvedev.
Who'd be the next to step to the throne and what would his war plans include?  Sergey Ivanov perhaps?

Could it get worse?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 13, 2015, 02:42:29 AM
The Russian Federation Constitution stipulates that the successor shall be the Chairman of the Government (Prime Minister). In such cases, new elections must be called and carried out within three months time from the date of such a vacancy.

(Chapter 4, Article 92)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 13, 2015, 08:43:13 AM
Seems Mad Vlad has lit a shuck and gone to ground...
His alleged girlfriend/wife just gave birth -
 
http://www.i4u.com/2015/03/89426/putin-back-amidst-baby-rumors-alina-kabaeva-surfacing-switzerland (http://www.i4u.com/2015/03/89426/putin-back-amidst-baby-rumors-alina-kabaeva-surfacing-switzerland)
 
Hardly a ringing endorsement for Russian healthcare, even for the elite.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 13, 2015, 08:51:26 AM
I understand the term 'gone to ground'.  But what does 'lit a shuck' mean?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 13, 2015, 10:13:23 AM
I understand the term 'gone to ground'.  But what does 'lit a shuck' mean?


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=light%20a%20shuck
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 13, 2015, 11:05:37 AM
More on the case of the "disappearing Putin" here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19164.msg398087#msg398087

and here:

http://wp.me/peVMt-3zD

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 13, 2015, 12:58:40 PM
His alleged girlfriend/wife just gave birth -
 
http://www.i4u.com/2015/03/89426/putin-back-amidst-baby-rumors-alina-kabaeva-surfacing-switzerland (http://www.i4u.com/2015/03/89426/putin-back-amidst-baby-rumors-alina-kabaeva-surfacing-switzerland)
 
Hardly a ringing endorsement for Russian healthcare, even for the elite.

Ah, well there we have it, then.

Actually, it probably had more to do with security than level of healthcare. Putin's paranoid by nature. Her protection during pregnancy and subsequent birth would have been a top priority for him.

The secrecy around her transfer to Switzerland, his subsequent leaving the country and attendance are the example. If western intelligence agencies new about it I'd be surprised. It certainly wasn't given to the media. Everyone was left wondering why and where "The Boss" was hiding. The Swiss weren't talking either.

In other words, another flawless operation by the Kremlin. Operation 'Make More Babies For Mother Russia' was a success. ;D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 13, 2015, 07:48:48 PM
This is from facebook so take it with a grain of salt..

 Using tineye.com I can't confirm it but it looks like something big is happening in Red Square.   :clapping:

 Maybe Lenin will have a new next door neighbor?  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 13, 2015, 08:12:31 PM
Every one knows I am a no exceptions prolifer.  I regret with the birth of Putin's bastard, I think I can make one exception.  We could use the Obama rule and commit a post birth abortion.  Doctor Gosnell will see you now . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 13, 2015, 08:15:28 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/putin-involved-drug-smuggling-ring-says-ex-kgb-officer-313657

Putin is a drug dealer
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on March 13, 2015, 10:35:56 PM
Well, did they disappear or did they migrate and become assimilated with succeeding cultures? :)


Amazingly, they kept their culture and language. They are known as Black Sea Greeks or Pontian.

When the former USSR  broke up many took up the offer of Greek passports and 20, 000 ended up on the former British colony of Cyprus.

I lived there and dated a Russian speaker whose best friend was a 'Ponti'.

They generally speak Russian as a first language but retained the ability to speak a dialect of Greek.

As times got hard, they are often blamed on the island for increasing crime, but I found them to be hard working and too often treated as second class citizens.

The Greeks have a propensity to retain their language / culture despite being part of the Ottoman Empire/Turkey or various flavours of Moscow rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greeks
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 13, 2015, 10:53:12 PM
Every one knows I am a no exceptions prolifer.  I regret with the birth of Putin's bastard, I think I can make one exception.  We could use the Obama rule and commit a post birth abortion.  Doctor Gosnell will see you now . . .

Is this supposed to be funny?   :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 13, 2015, 10:54:48 PM
That is pretty sick.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 14, 2015, 02:24:46 AM
This is from facebook so take it with a grain of salt..

 Using tineye.com I can't confirm it but it looks like something big is happening in Red Square.   :clapping:

 Maybe Lenin will have a new next door neighbor?

It is construction on the upcoming celebration for the first anniversary of the annexation of Crimea. That is just a few days away.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on March 14, 2015, 07:46:02 AM
Amazingly, they kept their culture and language. They are known as Black Sea Greeks or Pontian.

Maybe this was the fate of a small portion of the population but the Scythians were most likely a very diverse group of tribes with similar characteristics. The Greeks traded wheat with them for some time so there was most likely intermarriage. A large part of the civilization was swallowed by subsequent groups like the Sarmatians and Alans. A smaller group (archaeological finds and genetics) was thought to move northwest becoming isolated for some time and eventually becoming or integrating with tribes that led to the Slavs and integrating or at least closely cooperating with the Vikings ancestors where their culture is also found in digs.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Slumba on March 14, 2015, 09:17:20 AM
I sometimes have joked with UW that "everyone knows, that Greece was founded by Ukrainians who don't like winter!" ... hmmm...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 14, 2015, 10:13:19 AM
More bad news for Russia...Putin has been abducted by aliens.



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/aliens-abduct-putin-in-animation/vi-AA9JlCl?ocid=mailsignout
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 14, 2015, 11:05:47 AM
More bad news for Russia...Putin has been abducted by aliens.



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/aliens-abduct-putin-in-animation/vi-AA9JlCl?ocid=mailsignout


 Is that really bad? 
  They could explain the wars and invasion that caused so many to die as being caused by alien brain implants!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on March 14, 2015, 12:17:06 PM
Word on the street is that Russians are waiting for Tchaikovsky to be played on the radio while the Dons put the "right" people in place. Also, there is a severance with Kadyrov's ties, or so they say.


Stay tuned.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 14, 2015, 01:17:04 PM
Word on the street is that Russians are waiting for Tchaikovsky to be played on the radio while the Dons put the "right" people in place. Also, there is a severance with Kadyrov's ties, or so they say.


Stay tuned.

 Possibly a palace coup. Doll will be heartbroken though.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 14, 2015, 01:26:47 PM
Tanks and Armor build up in Red Square..

http://proua.com.ua/?p=7701

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 14, 2015, 01:53:12 PM
Russia This Week: All the Strange Things Going on in Moscow


A long article

http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-this-week-all-the-strange-things-going-on-in-moscow/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 14, 2015, 03:30:26 PM
Is Russia finally going to have to pay for its crimes?


Today the European Court on Human Rights (ECHR) has started the inter-state case on the violations of human rights carried out by Russian forces on the territory of Ukraine since spring 2014. The case of Ukraine vs. Russia is going to be a conjoined hearing, consisting of five large cases considering multiple occasions of unlawful incarceration, torture and depriving of the right on life of Ukrainian citizens by Russian forces.

According to the director of the Foundation for Strategic Cases of the Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union, Mikhail Tarahkalo, this case would mean a lot to Ukraine. In case of victory at the ECHR this would be the first step of the official international recognition of the fact of Russia’s responsibility for the actions of militants of DNR and LNR in Ukraine. This would be the first major decision of an independent international body recognizing the invasion of Russia on the territory of Donbass and distribution of its jurisdiction to the territory.

Will Russia take this easily? Considering how most of the major hostilities in the East Ukraine and some of rogue terrorist attacks in major Ukrainian cities have been occasionally timed to some of the biggest hearings on Ukrainian situation in Europe, there is a reason to up the vigilance for the Ukrainian special forces, as the language of diplomacy and law has been proven to be not the Russia’s way, as it demonstrated in the past year of atrocities and violence. Yet the international victory would be a turning point of war, and hence Ukraine has to gather all its resources to make this breakthrough happen.

“In case of recognition of the violations, Russia will be forced to pay substantial compensation to the applicants, i.e. Ukraine”, the Ukrainian Helsinki Group suggests, so clearly, many will be at stake in this hearing.

http://euromaidanpress.com/201...-pay-for-its-crimes/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AnonMod on March 14, 2015, 04:36:27 PM
Reminder to all, spouses and family are off limits.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 14, 2015, 04:52:15 PM
never mind
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 14, 2015, 05:38:33 PM
 :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 14, 2015, 10:38:37 PM
Putin biographer: He's not dead ? but chaos is brewing in the Kremlin.

(There seems to be cracks in the walls.)

There's something going on behind the scenes in the Kremlin.

Russian President Vladimir Putin hasn't been seen in public since March 5. (Video featuring Putin on March 13 was not live.)

Analysts are speculating that his absence suggests there may be a power struggle behind it all. And it appears as though Boris Nemtsov's murder could have been the catalyst in all of this.

On March 12, Reuters reported that the murder of opposition figure Boris Nemtsov has "exposed rarely seen tensions between different camps inside President Vladimir Putin's system of rule."

"Some of Nemtsov's associates say his shooting is being used by one faction to send Putin a message that they are unhappy and need to be reckoned with," Reuters reported.

Click for the rest
http://www.businessinsider.com/chaos-and-cracks-behind-the-putin-regime-2015-3#ixzz3UIlfNWGzhttp://www.businessinsider.com/chaos-and-cracks-behind-the-putin-regime-2015-3
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 16, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
Looks like more bad news for Russia--Putin is still on this earth.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 17, 2015, 03:09:43 PM
Buy Junk, Get Junk and wonder why it doesn't work..


Sukhoi-30 MKI, Air Force's Most Modern Fighter Jet, Plagued by Engine Trouble


New Delhi:  Sukhoi-30 MKI, the most powerful and modern fighter jets in Indian Air Force's stable, has been hit by mid-air engine failures. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said in Parliament today that as many as 35 instances of engine failures were reported in 2013-14 - that's nearly three a month.

 In all, there are 69 instances of engine failure in the last four years, the minister said. Inquiries by the Air Force have revealed that in as many as 33 instances, the engines failed because of impure fuel, in another 11 cases, the problem was caused by excessive vibration and in eight others, engine failures were reported because of low pressure in the lubricant tanks, the Defence Minister said. About five SU-30 MKI have crashed since 2009.

Like all twin-engine jets, the Russian made Su-30s are capable of landing on a single engine. But to reach its maximum potential of carrying a total eight tones of payload including bombs, missiles and spare fuel tanks, the jet needs both its AL-31FP engines to function.

 Engine failures is fast becoming a major concern for Air Force and also puts a question mark on India's ability to defend its skies. Another problem area that senior Air Force officers point out is serviceability. "Serviceability of the aircraft is about 50 per cent only," an officer said. It means at any given time, roughly half out of a fleet of 200 jets are available for operational purposes. This becomes crucial in times of emergencies like war.

 Mr Parrikar said that the engines were scheduled to be overhauled after every 1000 hours of flying, but the defects started showing-up after only 500 hours of flying. The minister said that Russia-based NPO Saturn, manufacturers of Su-30 Al-31FP engines, offered to make "nine technological improvements" during overhauls, and added that after the modifications the engines were flying for upto 900 hours.

 To address the growing capability gap, especially that created by increasing obsolescence of MiG-21, India is talking to France to buy 126 medium multi-role Rafale fighter jets. But the negotiations have been dragging on for three years. Although the acquisition has got mired on per unit cost and number of man hours required to produce it in India, a resolution of these issue can be expected when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits France in April.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/sukhoi-30-mki-air-forces-most-modern-fighter-jet-plagued-by-engine-trouble-747483
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 17, 2015, 03:59:14 PM
Russia's Gazprom Braces for Tough Year as Demand Slumps
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-gazprom-braces-for-tough-year-as-demand-slumps/517578.html

Fresh Corruption Scandal Hits Russian Defense Ministry
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/fresh-corruption-scandal-hits-russian-defense-ministry/517566.html

Euphoria Fades in Crimea After a Year of Russian Rule
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/news/article/euphoria-fades-in-crimea-after-a-year-of-russian-rule/517567.html

Russian Firms Flock to Dollar Accounts Amid Sanctions
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-firms-flock-to-dollar-accounts-amid-sanctions/517559.html

Russia's MTS Sees Net Profit Fall 92% in Q4
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-mts-sees-net-profit-fall-92-in-q4/517557.html

Russia Accuses Kiev of Tightening Blockade of Eastern Ukraine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-accuses-kiev-of-tightening-blockade-of-eastern-ukraine/517513.html

PACE says no ‘civil war’ in Ukraine, but Russian involvement
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1056576-pace-says-no-civil-war-in-ukraine-but-russian-involvement.html

Trouble in Transnistria
http://www.unian.info/politics/1054236-trouble-in-transnistria.html

Kremlin promoting national pride in place of individual dignity
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/03/17/kremlin-promoting-national-pride-in-place-of-individual-dignity/

Latvia moves to bolster Russian border defences amid Kremlin hybrid war fears
http://uatoday.tv/politics/latvia-moves-to-bolster-russian-border-defences-amid-kremlin-hybrid-war-fears-415929.html

Putin lashes out over EU and US snubs to Moscow Victory Day parade :rolleyes:
http://uatoday.tv/politics/putin-lashes-out-over-eu-and-us-snubs-to-moscow-victory-day-parade-415930.html

Putin's Crimea confessions fuel war crimes debate in Russia
http://uatoday.tv/politics/russian-crimea-documentary-could-expose-putin-to-war-crimes-trial-415927.html

 Russian budget to lose $135 billion at the price of oil at $55 - OPEC
http://en.censor.net.ua/news/328738/russian_budget_to_lose_135_billion_at_the_price_of_oil_at_55_opec



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 17, 2015, 04:26:01 PM

 Russian budget to lose $135 billion at the price of oil at $55 - OPEC
http://en.censor.net.ua/news/328738/russian_budget_to_lose_135_billion_at_the_price_of_oil_at_55_opec


 43.86  and heading down down down.The loss of income will devastate a Russian economy is already in tatters and will be destroyed if Russia persists in attacking Ukraine and refuses to leave Crimea.
To me-- seeing the Russian military forced to withdraw is all I would accept( and my preference is to force Russia to pay compensation for the damage-both in infrastructure damage and in cost of Ukraine defending itself plus the cost to individuals and companies)

http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/crude-oil.aspx
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 17, 2015, 04:31:14 PM
But that's WTI (West Texas Intermediate) oil, Brent is closer to what it will be for Russian oil.
It's at 53.31 USD currently.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GriffinCO on March 17, 2015, 05:52:37 PM
Russia will never give up Crimea.  You'll have to pry it from Putin's cold, dead hands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 17, 2015, 05:59:31 PM
With any luck that'll both happen soon!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 17, 2015, 06:04:02 PM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-prices-set-to-take-a-bath-heard-on-the-street-1426533577

The West Texas Intermediate was at $48.  We are seeing a six year low.  Texas oilmen will perform more maintenance but stock piles are near capacity.  Geopolitics could push it back up.  Barring that it could go lower as the Saudis seem determined to reassert control over the oil market.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 17, 2015, 07:21:09 PM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-prices-set-to-take-a-bath-heard-on-the-street-1426533577 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-prices-set-to-take-a-bath-heard-on-the-street-1426533577)

The West Texas Intermediate was at $48.  We are seeing a six year low.  Texas oilmen will perform more maintenance but stock piles are near capacity.  Geopolitics could push it back up.  Barring that it could go lower as the Saudis seem determined to reassert control over the oil market.


I've been reading about how oil was going to be 20 dollars a barrel from you, and thus far it isn't even close.  Other more credible people in the industry have also said it is going down and it is quite low at the moment.    I still doubt it will ever get there, some even say it is heading back up.  You have about 9-10 months before the bet is won/lost....I think we made it in December.   


As it happens, gas prices here in California are still high at around 3.10-3.15 a gallon at the most inexpensive locations in my neighborhood.   


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on March 17, 2015, 08:29:34 PM
I would say that oil falling from over $100 a barrel to in the 40's is a huge drop. The state of California is the reason why your gas prices are so effin' high. I am in Texas and you can easily find gas for about $2/gallon. I assure the extra $1.20 a gallon isn't in transportation costs. It is because of CARB regulations and state and local gas taxes. The tax differential alone between CA and TX gas taxes is about 30 cents a gallon. Of each gallon of gas in California, 68 cents goes to the government.


An interesting site to read about gas prices is here by the CA government.


http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.php


Government typically makes more on a gallon of gas than the oil companies do by far. Why aren't we blaming "greedy" government instead of the oil companies?


Anyway I hope oil prices stay way down. The longer it is like this, the more Putin and Russia are punished. Finally some of my Russian friends are coming around and seeing how severe the consequences are for Russia right now.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on March 17, 2015, 09:07:30 PM
Long time no see, Taz!  Welcome back!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Taz on March 17, 2015, 09:27:47 PM
Thanks, I was pretty busy with my lady the last month or so. Trying to decide where to relocate so we were visiting quite a few cities. Finally narrowed it down a bit, from about 15 to 3.


I was actually hoping Putin was gone for good but I guess the world isn't that lucky. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to see what was happening in his closed door meetings...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 18, 2015, 05:25:57 AM
 :welcome: back Taz!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 20, 2015, 04:04:54 PM
TSN reports,


US authorities have advised large companies to flee Russia before the summer - spin doctor


The probability of disconnection from SWIFT far only discussed.

 The US Federal Reserve has recommended all major Western companies to completely fold its activities in the beginning of summer this year.

This TSN.ua said Taras Berezovets political strategist, referring to insider information.

"No one explains why. This information, which distributes US Federal Reserve," - he said.

Expert sees the relationship of such recommendations to talks about disabling of on SWIFT. "If any disconnection SWIFT , then, of course, no western company will not be able to carry on business in Russia. In fact, it is comparable to a nuclear attack on Russia's economy, "- says Berezovets.

"The risk is [disconnection from SWIFT]. While it only discuss denied it. But one needs to understand that if they decided, of course, they will hide it. They just do everything at the last moment," - said political strategist.

The US Federal Reserve (Fed) - an independent federal agency that serves as the central bank and provides centralized control of the commercial banking system States.

Recall that in the last few days left of the big car companies.

On 18 March it became aware of the withdrawal of the Russian market brands Opel and Chevrolet most models . Brand owners - US company General Motors - also stops built in St. Petersburg plant.

March 19 to suspend exports of machinery to Russia said South Korean car manufacturer SsangYong .

http://tsn.ua/groshi/vlada-ssha-poradila-velikim-kompaniyam-tikati-z-rosiyi-do-pochatku-lita-polittehnolog-416679.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on March 20, 2015, 04:21:33 PM
TSN reports,


US authorities have advised large companies to flee Russia before the summer - spin doctor


The probability of disconnection from SWIFT far only discussed.

 
"The risk is [disconnection from SWIFT]. While it only discuss denied it. But one needs to understand that if they decided, of course, they will hide it. They just do everything at the last moment," - said political strategist.

The US Federal Reserve (Fed) - an independent federal agency that serves as the central bank and provides centralized control of the commercial banking system States.



Mike, don't look or anticipate that SWIFT will be disconnected from Russia. Removing it will disconnect the central banking cabal and they won't tolerate that. That cabal is in essence The Federal Reserve which is as stated here "independent". The Fed Reserve bankers (the cabal) will keep open avenues to the Russian economy and shutting it down will cost them more than it costs Russia. The nuke option on the Russian economy is a gross over estimation. More of an inconvenience
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 20, 2015, 04:48:12 PM
Time will tell.
 None of the other options seems to be panning out, so maybe it's time to finally bring out the heavy guns.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on March 20, 2015, 06:11:17 PM
Time will tell.
 None of the other options seems to be panning out, so maybe it's time to finally bring out the heavy guns.

The one thing you can count on through all of the information and disinformation is the greed of the central banks
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 20, 2015, 06:50:24 PM
A lot of US & Canadian oil is wrapped up in Russian Arctic investment. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 25, 2015, 10:18:11 AM
Check this out; The criminally inactive jumps into action to snub the chief representative of the organization of irrelevance...Awesome.

Seriously, what would these two have to discuss, anyways? It's not like either one of them is interested in the maintenance of international peace and security. Maybe Stoltenberg wants to outline his plan for dismantling NATO before a less incompetent POTUS assumes the presidency and actually does his/her job, who knows? :rolleyes:

Obama reportedly snubs NATO chief as Russia makes new threats against allies

..."President Barack Obama reportedly will not meet with NATO's new secretary general when he is in Washington this week, despite requests from the alliance chief's staff for a get-together."...

foxnews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/25/obama-reportedly-snubs-nato-chief-as-russia-makes-new-threats-against-allies/)

...The whitehouse has issued a press release stating that President Obama will be too busy hiding under his desk in the oval office singing his favorite song "Make the world go away". >:(

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on March 25, 2015, 10:38:33 AM
In spite of what FT tries to tell the forum about how American's and US lawmaker feel about arming Ukraine, yesterdays House Vote in Congress says it all....348 to 48 Vote to Send Lethal Arms to Ukraine.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/weapons/2015/03/24/us-house-urges-obama-to-send-lethal-arms-to-ukraine/70369946/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 25, 2015, 03:30:41 PM
In spite of what FT tries to tell the forum about how American's and US lawmaker feel about arming Ukraine, yesterdays House Vote in Congress says it all....348 to 48 Vote to Send Lethal Arms to Ukraine.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/weapons/2015/03/24/us-house-urges-obama-to-send-lethal-arms-to-ukraine/70369946/ (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/weapons/2015/03/24/us-house-urges-obama-to-send-lethal-arms-to-ukraine/70369946/)


The US Congress has had an approval rating of around 15%-20%.  It is ignorant of Calmissile to link their vote with what the American people want.  I'd say about 90% of the American public has NO interest in the issue at all...and the 10% that do are probably split in what they would like to see done.   It is also inaccurate to say I have spoken about congressional votes...I've commented on the American public not usually congressional votes. 


Regardless for now the US is not arming Ukraine, which I agree with.  In addition, I would suspect a fair % of the votes are just votes to get on record against Obama more than anything.  It is in the president's hands, he is there for a reason, and he is likely informed of ALL the important facts.  :)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 25, 2015, 03:38:42 PM
America is always wrong.  Our sins are never forgiven. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on March 25, 2015, 08:37:34 PM
brass i think its fair to say as this is in the EU backyard , they need to step up here

currently it is purely staggering how run down the defence is across the EU , given russias push over the last 5 years and its now continued drive towards a bigger military ,

the EU has to get serious about its own defence imho

america does have a role , but it needs the EU to show leadership and strong policy on its own defence and for ukraine ,
that to date has been lacking imo

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 25, 2015, 08:52:16 PM
SX, I think we all agree with you, but don't you think our Nobel Peace Prize winner should meet with Stoltenberg?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on March 25, 2015, 11:07:19 PM
SX, I think we all agree with you, but don't you think our Nobel Peace Prize winner should meet with Stoltenberg?

LT , yes i do think he should ,

however my guess is the key leadership is wanting it to be more or a united front that has all the apearances of being driven out of the EU ,with the US being asked to support them

rather than  being seen as the US leading a warmongering path against russsia with the EU ,being reluctantly dragged along ... currently that is the russian propogandas spin on this scenario

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 26, 2015, 12:58:33 AM
Neville:
Quote
The US Congress has had an approval rating of around 15%-20%.  It is ignorant of Calmissile to link their vote with what the American people want.

No, ignorance is forgetting that this Congress just won both houses by a vote of the poeple in the most recent elections.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 26, 2015, 04:41:50 AM
Neville:
No, ignorance is forgetting that this Congress just won both houses by a vote of the poeple in the most recent elections.

Debating this guy is a waste of time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 06:19:53 AM
Neville:
No, ignorance is forgetting that this Congress just won both houses by a vote of the poeple in the most recent elections.


Partisan Hack,


No, ignorance is what YOU are displaying:


Here is a little survey listing Congress' approval rating week by week, which proves you wrong....most current approval rating 18%


http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm (http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm)


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 06:20:59 AM
Debating this guy is a waste of time.


For YOU it is, but then again you don't know how to debate/discuss anyway, so who cares!   :)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 26, 2015, 08:26:19 AM
Neville:
Quote
No, ignorance is what YOU are displaying:


Here is a little survey listing Congress' approval rating week by week, which proves you wrong....most current approval rating 18%

Did you even realize that the USA had a mid-term election recently? That my friend, is the only poll that matters.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 26, 2015, 09:07:28 AM

Partisan Hack,


No, ignorance is what YOU are displaying:


Here is a little survey listing Congress' approval rating week by week, which proves you wrong....most current approval rating 18%


http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm (http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm)

I would like you to explain how you've arrived at the conclusion Mendy is a "partisan hack".

It makes no sense to me as a partisan hack is generally defined as Someone who cares more about supporting a particular party or ideology than supporting what is morally right, or factually true.-urban dictionary or Devoted to or biased in support of a party, group, or cause: partisan politics. -wordnik.

This term more accurately describes you, FT, not Mendy. You are the one who subscribes to a specific biased ideology and supports the Kremlin line (politics) regardless of morality or facts to the contrary.

Case in point; Your linking this survey to support your hypothesis that the question "Do you approve or disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job?" somehow equates to American's having no interest in Ukraine at all. It doesn't.

The more accurate polling result would be Obama's handling of foreign policy. Excerpts from your own link...

"NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll
"Do you generally approve or disapprove of the job Barack Obama is doing in handling foreign policy?"
3/1-5/15   Approve Disapprove Unsure     
         
                   36%         58%       6% "

"CBS News Poll.
"Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling foreign policy?"
2/13-17/15  Approve  Disapprove Unsure/ No answer
                      39%       50%          12% "


"ABC News/Washington Post Poll.
"Overall, do you approve or disapprove of the way Obama is handling international affairs?"


12/11-14/14 Approve  Disapprove Unsure
                      39%         54%           7%"

"Quinnipiac University
"Who do you trust more to make decisions that are good for the country: President Obama or the Republicans in Congress?"

11/18-23/14 President Obama    Republicans in Congress   Unsure/No answer
                              42%                       47%                           12%

http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_ad2.htm

Get the idea? There may even be direct questions polling Obama's policy on Ukraine on this website somewhere. Either way, your assertion that Americans agree with Mr. Obama on Ukraine/Foreign policy don't hold up under scrutiny.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 09:09:46 AM
Neville:
Did you even realize that the USA had a mid-term election recently? That my friend, is the only poll that matters.
Partisan Hack,

Yes I know we had elections here a while back.   I also notice that congresses approval rating is below 20%.  So when congress makes decisions,  often times it isn't what the American people want. That is why I objected to calmissiles initial statement equating the Congressional vote with an approval from the American people. For better or worse most people disagree with congress on many if not most issues.
Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 09:21:40 AM
Get the idea? There may even be direct questions polling Obama's policy on Ukraine on this website somewhere. Either way, your assertion that Americans agree with Mr. Obama on Ukraine/Foreign policy don't hold up under scrutiny.

Brass

You call that scrutiny?   

Most people don't agree with our foreign policy...neither do I.   That certainly doesn't mean I think we should arm Ukraine.   Which demonstrates that those that don't approval of our foreign policy aren't all looking for us to be more muscular, but less, and obviously that has been slowly happening...as China and other regional powers assert themselves more.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 26, 2015, 09:26:00 AM
Neville, that same Congress was elected, in a triumph over the other party, recently. Those polls numbers have not changed much, but the people have spoken.

I applaud divided government--it is a gift from the founders and a blessing to democracy. Those who favour united government have mainly examples of Russia, China, North Korea, etc, as prime examples.

If the American people do not like this Congress, it only takes a short two years to change it.

As to Obama, he is a sad joke and a blight on USA history. That too will change in less than two years.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 26, 2015, 09:32:46 AM

The US Congress has had an approval rating of around 15%-20%. It is ignorant of Calmissile to link their vote with what the American people want.  I'd say about 90% of the American public has NO interest in the issue at all...and the 10% that do are probably split in what they would like to see done.   It is also inaccurate to say I have spoken about congressional votes...I've commented on the American public not usually congressional votes. 


Regardless for now the US is not arming Ukraine, which I agree with.  In addition, I would suspect a fair % of the votes are just votes to get on record against Obama more than anything.  It is in the president's hands, he is there for a reason, and he is likely informed of ALL the important facts.  :)

Then your comments would be inaccurate.

Americans disapprove of Obama's handling of Ukraine crisis

..."President Obama: Ukraine and Foreign Policy

While a majority of Americans (56 percent) support U.S. sanctions against Russia, they are less pleased with President Obama's handling of the situation between Russia and Ukraine overall. Forty-six percent disapprove of how Mr. Obama is handling these events, while fewer - 38 percent - approve."...

..."Russia and Ukraine

There are limits to what Americans think the U.S. can accomplish regarding the recent Russian annexation of Crimea in Ukraine. Fifty-seven percent of Americans think the situation between Russia and Ukraine is beyond the control of the U.S.; just 37 percent think it is a conflict the U.S. can do something about.

So far, the U.S. and other countries have responded to Russia's annexation of Crimea by enacting sanctions, something most Americans (56 percent) - and most partisans (55 percent of Republicans, 61 percent of Democrats) -- approve of.

But few Americans are hopeful that sanctions will be effective at changing Russia's actions in Ukraine and Crimea. Just 32 percent think sanctions will be at least somewhat effective, and most - 58 percent - think sanctions will be not very or not at all effective. Democrats are a little more optimistic about the effectiveness of sanctions than are Republicans or independents.

Americans stop short when it comes to providing military aid and equipment to Ukraine. Just 26 percent think the U.S. should do so in response to Russia's actions, and far more - 65 percent - think the U.S. should not, including majorities of Republicans (59 percent), Democrats (67 percent), and independents (69 percent).

Looking ahead, Americans think an expansion of the conflict is likely. Sixty-nine percent think it is at least somewhat likely that the situation between Russia and Ukraine will become a more widespread conflict involving neighboring countries and other parts of Europe, including 27 percent who think that is very likely.

Most Americans don't think the U.S. is obliged to intervene there: 61 percent of Americans do not think the U.S. has a responsibility to do something about the situation between Russia and Ukraine, nearly twice as many as think the U.S. does have that responsibility. There is widespread bipartisan agreement on this.

Public opinion about Ukraine is similar to views about U.S. responsibility in other international conflicts. Majorities of Americans did not think the U.S. had a responsibility to intervene in Syria (68 percent), in the fighting and ethnic cleansing in Bosnia (65 percent) or in the mass killings in Rwanda (51 percent). In contrast, 54 percent of Americans believed the U.S. did have a responsibility to intervene in Kosovo, a situation where the U.S. began a bombing campaign against Serbian forces in cooperation with NATO.

Thirty-six percent of Americans say they have heard or read a lot about the situation between Russia and Crimea, and those who have are far more likely to believe the U.S. has a responsibility to do something (45 percent) than those paying less attention (25 percent). Still, 51 percent of those who have heard or read a lot about the situation think the U.S. does not have a responsibility to get involved."...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/americans-disapprove-of-obamas-handling-of-ukraine-crisis/

Now before you go pointing out that a majority of Americans don't support intervention in Ukraine read the bolded paragraph above.

In all those conflicts the US/administration did the right thing and fulfilled it's responsibilities/commitments regardless of public opinion at the time. Something Mr. Obama refuses to do.

So, according to this article/survey contrary to your adamant insistence otherwise, Americans are indeed interested in what's happening in Ukraine.

Brass





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on March 26, 2015, 09:33:26 AM
Cmon guys, you can't say just because Congress was elected that every thing Congress does is fully supported by the people.  That is the same as saying Obama was elected twice so everything he did was fully supported by the people.


Sometimes people get elected because they are the lesser of two evils.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on March 26, 2015, 09:41:39 AM



'...Regardless for now the US is not arming Ukraine, which I agree with...'


Fathertime!

Why do you agree with the idea of not arming Ukraine? What do you see as the pros and cons?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 26, 2015, 09:43:35 AM
You call that scrutiny?   

Most people don't agree with our foreign policy...neither do I.   That certainly doesn't mean I think we should arm Ukraine.   Which demonstrates that those that don't approval of our foreign policy aren't all looking for us to be more muscular, but less, and obviously that has been slowly happening...as China and other regional powers assert themselves more.

This post neither addresses my comments or answers my questions.

Yes, I do call it scrutiny. I've just demonstratively shown that in my two posts above.

I disagree and I've addressed your foreign policy comments in my post above.

Brass   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 09:48:54 AM
Then your comments would be inaccurate.

Americans disapprove of Obama's handling of Ukraine crisis

..."President Obama: Ukraine and Foreign Policy

While a majority of Americans (56 percent) support U.S. sanctions against Russia, they are less pleased with President Obama's handling of the situation between Russia and Ukraine overall. Forty-six percent disapprove of how Mr. Obama is handling these events, while fewer - 38 percent - approve."...

..."Russia and Ukraine

There are limits to what Americans think the U.S. can accomplish regarding the recent Russian annexation of Crimea in Ukraine. Fifty-seven percent of Americans think the situation between Russia and Ukraine is beyond the control of the U.S.; just 37 percent think it is a conflict the U.S. can do something about.

So far, the U.S. and other countries have responded to Russia's annexation of Crimea by enacting sanctions, something most Americans (56 percent) - and most partisans (55 percent of Republicans, 61 percent of Democrats) -- approve of.

But few Americans are hopeful that sanctions will be effective at changing Russia's actions in Ukraine and Crimea. Just 32 percent think sanctions will be at least somewhat effective, and most - 58 percent - think sanctions will be not very or not at all effective. Democrats are a little more optimistic about the effectiveness of sanctions than are Republicans or independents.

Americans stop short when it comes to providing military aid and equipment to Ukraine. Just 26 percent think the U.S. should do so in response to Russia's actions, and far more - 65 percent - think the U.S. should not, including majorities of Republicans (59 percent), Democrats (67 percent), and independents (69 percent).

Looking ahead, Americans think an expansion of the conflict is likely. Sixty-nine percent think it is at least somewhat likely that the situation between Russia and Ukraine will become a more widespread conflict involving neighboring countries and other parts of Europe, including 27 percent who think that is very likely.

Most Americans don't think the U.S. is obliged to intervene there: 61 percent of Americans do not think the U.S. has a responsibility to do something about the situation between Russia and Ukraine, nearly twice as many as think the U.S. does have that responsibility. There is widespread bipartisan agreement on this.

Public opinion about Ukraine is similar to views about U.S. responsibility in other international conflicts. Majorities of Americans did not think the U.S. had a responsibility to intervene in Syria (68 percent), in the fighting and ethnic cleansing in Bosnia (65 percent) or in the mass killings in Rwanda (51 percent). In contrast, 54 percent of Americans believed the U.S. did have a responsibility to intervene in Kosovo, a situation where the U.S. began a bombing campaign against Serbian forces in cooperation with NATO.

Thirty-six percent of Americans say they have heard or read a lot about the situation between Russia and Crimea, and those who have are far more likely to believe the U.S. has a responsibility to do something (45 percent) than those paying less attention (25 percent). Still, 51 percent of those who have heard or read a lot about the situation think the U.S. does not have a responsibility to get involved."...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/americans-disapprove-of-obamas-handling-of-ukraine-crisis/

Now before you go pointing out that a majority of Americans don't support intervention in Ukraine read the bolded paragraph above.

In all those conflicts the US/administration did the right thing and fulfilled it's responsibilities/commitments regardless of public opinion at the time. Something Mr. Obama refuses to do.

So, according to this article/survey contrary to your adamant insistence otherwise, Americans are indeed interested in what's happening in Ukraine.

Brass

You would be surprised at how little most Americans care about this conflict.   If it becomes a major one for us, then people will care more...when/if we suffer consequences/deaths people will wonder why we got sucked into it.  It is not crucial (to us) to participate any more than we already have.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 09:58:04 AM

In all those conflicts the US/administration did the right thing and fulfilled it's responsibilities/commitments regardless of public opinion at the time. Something Mr. Obama refuses to do.

Brass
I don't agree with your assertion that the US did the right thing in all these past interventions and others you didnt list. Some were good, some were not.  In addition, those past interventions don't have a bearing on this particular case in terms of "Does it make sense or not". I argue that it does not make good enough sense to arm.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 26, 2015, 10:10:47 AM
You would be surprised at how little most Americans care about this conflict.   If it becomes a major one for us, then people will care more...when/if we suffer consequences/deaths people will wonder why we got sucked into it.  It is not crucial (to us) to participate any more than we already have.

Fathertime!

That's not correct, FT. I'm showing you through the links that Americans do care.

Will they care more in the future? I think so as well. Why? Because it's a pay me now or pay me later situation. Mr. Obama's stubborn refusal to take the appropriate action now practically guarantees that the west will need to take military action/intervention later.

In other words your belief that appeasing Russia to avoid conflict now will ensure your worst fears and concerns - direct conflict with the west/NATO  - becomes unavoidable within a few years.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 26, 2015, 10:22:40 AM
I don't agree with your assertion that the US did the right thing in all these past interventions and others you didnt list. Some were good, some were not.  In addition, those past interventions don't have a bearing on this particular case in terms of "Does it make sense or not". I argue that it does not make good enough sense to arm.

It's to the American public's credit that public opinion doesn't automatically default for war to solve foreign policy issues. It blows the Putin propaganda fluffer's arguments out of the water.

Yes, each conflict was unique but the aggressor's motivations were similar. Past and recent history shows us that aggressor nation/dictators/organizations don't voluntarily stop being aggressors unless forced to do so. Russia/Putin is no different.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on March 26, 2015, 10:29:50 AM
It's to the American public's credit that public opinion doesn't automatically default for war to solve foreign policy issues. It blows the Putin propaganda fluffer's arguments out of the water.

Yes, each conflict was unique but the aggressor's motivations were similar. Past and recent history shows us that aggressor nation/dictators/organizations don't voluntarily stop being aggressors unless forced to do so. Russia/Putin is no different.

Brass

Very well said.   We also have the years of the cold war to know how Russia behaves and how they were kept in check.  Your analysis is spot on.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 10:44:13 AM
Why do you agree with the idea of not arming Ukraine? What do you see as the pros and cons?
off the top of my bald head..
I see the big cons as we are going to wind up getting in deeper and deeper as the conflict widens....I also believe that Russia will prevail regardless and providing weapons will increase the death toll many fold while fortifying Russia's resolve to prevail at all costs...I also believe that by getting involved we increase the likelihood of Russia assisting groups we oppose.   

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 10:50:56 AM



In other words your belief that appeasing Russia to avoid conflict now will ensure your worst fears and concerns - direct conflict with the west/NATO  - becomes unavoidable within a few years.

Brass
If I thought war was inevitable I'd probably agree with you..but I don't tthink that is the case...I also don't view what we have already done as appeasing...when we were involved in foreign wars I didn't view Russia's inaction as appeasement.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on March 26, 2015, 11:14:07 AM
If I thought war was inevitable I'd probably agree with you..but I don't tthink that is the case...I also don't view what we have already done as appeasing...when we were involved in foreign wars I didn't view Russia's inaction as appeasement.

You're blurring my wording/meaning when you suggest I'm referring to the US administration's dithering as appeasing Russia. What I consider the US administration guilty of is a failure to take the appropriate action and leadership in the face of an increasingly belligerent aggressor nation edit to add: which is enabling Russia's aggression.

I was addressing your comments and opinions in several posts as to how to deal with Putin/Russia's aggression as appeasement. Two different lines of thought.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 26, 2015, 12:41:24 PM
This post neither addresses my comments or answers my questions.


Brass

And you are surprised?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on March 26, 2015, 01:04:35 PM
If I thought war was inevitable I'd probably agree with you..but I don't tthink that is the case...I also don't view what we have already done as appeasing...when we were involved in foreign wars I didn't view Russia's inaction as appeasement.

Fathertime!

"If I thought war was inevitable..."

News bulletin, FT/Neville: I live in Ukraine and am here to tell you the country has been at war for nearly a year (excluding the resistance-less invasion of Krym). I live a few blocks from Lviv's military hospital treating war-wounded. Amputees and other disabled survivors are visible throughout the local streets.

Providing defensive weapons to Ukrainians defending their nation from fascist aggression "...will increase the death toll many fold..." of invading Russians. That would be a good thing; enough losses in this unwarranted war persecuted on Ukrainian soil by a tyrannical Muscovite despot will provide incentive for strategic retreat by the power that is increasingly despised by the rest of the world ( with the exception of such enlightened, civilized nations as North Korea, Venezuela, Ecuador, Cuba, and Syria).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 26, 2015, 01:06:04 PM
Putin calls on FSB to stop Russian militants returning from ‘hot spots’


Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered the Federal Security Service to prevent attempts by Russian-born militants from "hot spots" to get back into Russia "and especially into Crimea."

Putin was speaking on Thursday at the board meeting of the Federal Security Service of Russia. The full text of his speech has been published on the official Web site of the Russian president.

"Immigrants from Russia and other CIS countries are being trained in a number of hot spots, including in the ranks of the so-called Islamic state in Syria and other countries, and they may be exploited against us, against Russia and our neighbors" Putin said, as quoted by newspaper Krym.Realiyi.

"It is important to take additional measures to eliminate the global connections and resource base of terrorists, cut off their channels of entry and exit from Russia, prevent them from moving across regions, namely - to penetrate into the new Russian administrative areas - Crimea and Sevastopol," the Russian president said.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1060352-putin-calls-on-fsb-to-stop-russian-militants-returning-from-hot-spots.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 01:07:55 PM
And you are surprised?

LOL!
Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 01:13:22 PM
You're blurring my wording/meaning when you suggest I'm referring to the US administration's dithering as appeasing Russia. What I consider the US administration guilty of is a failure to take the appropriate action and leadership in the face of an increasingly belligerent aggressor nation edit to add: which is enabling Russia's aggression.

I was addressing your comments and opinions in several posts as to how to deal with Putin/Russia's aggression as appeasement. Two different lines of thought.

Brass
There is a new paradigm...Hitler didn't have 1000s of nukes....we can afford to negotiate, given the potential for calamity. 

It could also be that Obama has decided Ukraine isn't worth the lives and/or potential far ranging consequences it may well entail.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 26, 2015, 01:21:06 PM
"If I thought war was inevitable..."

News bulletin, FT/Neville: I live in Ukraine and am here to tell you the country has been at war for nearly a year (excluding the resistance-less invasion of Krym). I live a few blocks from Lviv's military hospital treating war-wounded. Amputees and other disabled survivors are visible throughout the local streets.


Was referring to a war between NATO/RUSSIA or US/RUSSIA...those wars are not inevitable in my opinion.

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 26, 2015, 01:23:00 PM
Even though Putin ordered price controls on vodka, things be getting pretty bad;

http://news.yahoo.com/russias-heavy-drinkers-turn-moonshine-113329143.html

Russia's heavy drinkers turn to moonshine, cleaning products
Moonshine, bath cleaner: Russia's heavy drinkers seek cheap but dangerous highs amid crisis
Associated Press By James Ellingworth, Associated Press
March 25, 2015 11:34 AM

 Russia's heavy drinkers turn to moonshine, cleaning products
.
View photo
In this photo taken on Tuesday, March 24, 2015, Alexander Polikarpov, the head doctor of the Alcospas chain of alcohol rehab clinics in Moscow poses for a photo after his interview with the Associated Press in Moscow, Russia. As the economic crisis sweeps through Russia, a dangerous trend is emerging in this heavy-drinking country: the rise in consumption of potentially lethal moonshine, medical alcohol or even cleaning products. (AP Photo/Pavel Golovkin)

MOSCOW (AP) -- As the economic crisis sweeps through Russia, a dangerous trend is emerging in this heavy-drinking country: the rise in consumption of potentially lethal moonshine, medical alcohol or even cleaning products.

Layoffs, wage cuts and price increases are combining to worsen the problem of alcoholism, which has long been a major public health issue, by increasing the mix of dangerous products in the market. Those who can no longer afford store-bought drinks are turning to "under the counter" alternatives that can cause serious damage, even death.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 26, 2015, 01:43:27 PM
Russian Government Struggles to Check Surging Cost of Medicine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-government-struggles-to-check-surging-cost-of-medicine/518109.html

Russian Companies Profits Turn Negative for First Time Since 2009 Crisis
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-company-profits-turn-negative-for-first-time-since-2009-crisis/518108.html

Russia's Largest Bank Sberbank Reports 20 Percent Profit Drop in 2014
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-largest-bank-sberbank-reports-20-percent-profit-drop-in-2014/518065.html

Soviet-Era 'Objective Truth' Bill Would Imperil Presumption of Innocence
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/soviet-era-objective-truth-bill-would-imperil-presumption-of-innocence/518107.html

Russia Offers $177 Million to Support Sanctions-Hit Rosselkhozbank
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-offers-177-million-to-support-sanctions-hit-rosselkhozbank/518084.html

Austria's Raiffeisen Bank to Close 15 Russian Branches
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/austrias-raiffeisen-bank-to-close-15-russian-branches/518038.html

Russian Railways Seeks $8 Billion in State Subsidies
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-railways-seeks-8-billion-in-state-subsidies/518020.html

Fraudulent Loan Applications in Russia Soar Amid Economic Crisis
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/fraudulent-loan-applications-in-russia-soar-amid-economic-crisis/517984.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 26, 2015, 02:28:44 PM
Even though Putin ordered price controls on vodka, things be getting pretty bad;

http://news.yahoo.com/russias-heavy-drinkers-turn-moonshine-113329143.html

Russia's heavy drinkers turn to moonshine, cleaning products
Moonshine, bath cleaner: Russia's heavy drinkers seek cheap but dangerous highs amid crisis
Associated Press By James Ellingworth, Associated Press
March 25, 2015 11:34 AM

 Russia's heavy drinkers turn to moonshine, cleaning products
.
View photo
In this photo taken on Tuesday, March 24, 2015, Alexander Polikarpov, the head doctor of the Alcospas chain of alcohol rehab clinics in Moscow poses for a photo after his interview with the Associated Press in Moscow, Russia. As the economic crisis sweeps through Russia, a dangerous trend is emerging in this heavy-drinking country: the rise in consumption of potentially lethal moonshine, medical alcohol or even cleaning products. (AP Photo/Pavel Golovkin)

MOSCOW (AP) -- As the economic crisis sweeps through Russia, a dangerous trend is emerging in this heavy-drinking country: the rise in consumption of potentially lethal moonshine, medical alcohol or even cleaning products.

Layoffs, wage cuts and price increases are combining to worsen the problem of alcoholism, which has long been a major public health issue, by increasing the mix of dangerous products in the market. Those who can no longer afford store-bought drinks are turning to "under the counter" alternatives that can cause serious damage, even death.

Ah yes, the other Russia
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 26, 2015, 02:39:55 PM
Russian Government Struggles to Check Surging Cost of Medicine
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-government-struggles-to-check-surging-cost-of-medicine/518109.html

Russian Companies Profits Turn Negative for First Time Since 2009 Crisis
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-company-profits-turn-negative-for-first-time-since-2009-crisis/518108.html

Russia's Largest Bank Sberbank Reports 20 Percent Profit Drop in 2014
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-largest-bank-sberbank-reports-20-percent-profit-drop-in-2014/518065.html

Soviet-Era 'Objective Truth' Bill Would Imperil Presumption of Innocence
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/soviet-era-objective-truth-bill-would-imperil-presumption-of-innocence/518107.html

Russia Offers $177 Million to Support Sanctions-Hit Rosselkhozbank
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-offers-177-million-to-support-sanctions-hit-rosselkhozbank/518084.html

Austria's Raiffeisen Bank to Close 15 Russian Branches
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/austrias-raiffeisen-bank-to-close-15-russian-branches/518038.html

Russian Railways Seeks $8 Billion in State Subsidies
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-railways-seeks-8-billion-in-state-subsidies/518020.html

Fraudulent Loan Applications in Russia Soar Amid Economic Crisis
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/fraudulent-loan-applications-in-russia-soar-amid-economic-crisis/517984.html

Sanctions have no effect on policy? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on March 27, 2015, 04:14:47 AM
No way do I support Putin's military opportunism in Crimea. It will destabilise the world for years to come. His actions are hugely popular in Russia and the perception there is that 'evil ' America removed Yanu' in Ukraine :D

I am not naive enough to realise that we hoped for a regime change  - in the same way Russians don't care that the Kremlin's clumsy attempts to push Yanu' in the correct direction brought about his demise.

Neither 'agenda' has worked out and Putin knows how far he can push and postures for a nation seeking a 'respect' it felt it had lost.

When I listen to him tell his people that 'he had to act' in Crimea as the people there had a right to self-determination I'm wondering about the Chechens who sought the same and ethnic Russians were only 20 percent before the wars and are now a 'massive'  2 percent.

I don't perceive any weakening of resolve from the average Russian, yet. Putin's media machine - with help from his Oligarch mates - is effective.

With whom would we wage war... Putin and his cronies or the average Joe in the street.



 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 27, 2015, 04:51:07 AM
 : :clapping:

Good post
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on March 30, 2015, 03:27:49 AM
Smart move by midget Putin to anger the Saudi regime, a country that can really sodomize Russia by driving the oil price even lower.
 :cluebat:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/saudi-arabia-slams-putin-over-support-for-syrias-assad/518203.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on March 30, 2015, 04:48:02 AM
A Novorossiya supporter on Twitter once told me that Russia's hatred of Tatars is strange.  If you scratch below the surface of any Russian, you will find a Tatar in it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on March 30, 2015, 10:03:32 AM
Some have the opinion that the tide has turned, and now is the time to invest in Russian stocks and bonds.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/30/investing/russia-markets-time-to-buy/index.html?iid=HP_LN
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 30, 2015, 11:34:56 AM
And yet others at the same site say totally opposite.

Russia's economic misery deepens.
It's all going downhill for Russia, again.

Russia's central bank cut interest rates by 1% to 14% on Friday, highlighting the dire state of the country's economy.
The bank also slashed its growth forecast. It expects the Russian economy to contract by between 3.5% and 4% in 2015, worse than its January prediction of 3%.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/13/news/economy/russia-central-bank/?iid=EL
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 30, 2015, 03:34:31 PM
Some have the opinion that the tide has turned, and now is the time to invest in Russian stocks and bonds.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/30/investing/russia-markets-time-to-buy/index.html?iid=HP_LN

That would be another Kremlin line being promoted to everyday Russians telling them how good they have got it !!

Meanwhile-- the noose is getting tighter !
Spanish authorities froze the bank accounts of hundreds of Russians
In Spain, the accounts of Russian citizens were subjected to freezing due to lack of explanation about the origin of money.

By strengthening the country's authorities to combat the laundering of criminally acquired funds control measures affected not only Italians, but also permanent resident aliens expensive property owners and solid bank accounts, reports Deutsche Welle .

According to the newspaper, all sanctions were subjected to several hundred immigrants from the former Soviet Union.

Because these people do not react to the requirement to provide a certificate of origin of their capital within three months, their accounts frozen. In addition, under the new law, foreigners are required to fill in an annual declaration of presence outside Spain property - real estate and bank assets totaling more than $ 50 thousand.

http://nv.ua/world/countries/vlasti-ispanii-zamorozili-bankovskie-scheta-soten-rossiyan-41474.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on March 30, 2015, 09:00:08 PM
So now the Russian's can be pissed at Spain also?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on April 01, 2015, 08:54:37 PM
Good article about those floating rust buckets known as the Russian Navy...

http://theweek.com/articles/545980/russian-navy-verge-collapse
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 02, 2015, 01:43:09 AM
Good article about those floating rust buckets known as the Russian Navy...

http://theweek.com/articles/545980/russian-navy-verge-collapse

I've posted these before, but they bear repeating:

Do they have better ones that we don't know about????
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 02, 2015, 05:01:51 AM
Its a good article stating that Russia has only 45 ships against the US 290.  Most of those ships are old.  That is true.  Russia does have a modern air force and nuclear forces.  Those must be considered even though such consideration is beyond the scope of the article.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on April 02, 2015, 06:05:15 AM
Do they have better ones that we don't know about????

The main concern are the "black holes". Nuclear powered and armed subs that can sneak up on us undetected. The rest of the fleet is dated.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 02, 2015, 07:46:22 AM
The main concern are the "black holes". Nuclear powered and armed subs that can sneak up on us undetected. The rest of the fleet is dated.


Alex, reality is that the US subs can sneak up undetected on the Russian subs 100% of the time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 02, 2015, 08:14:09 AM
Alex,

LT and myself had a fairly in depth discussion on Russian Submarine Fleet capabilities a number of months ago. Here's an excerpt...

[LT,]Let's take a look and see if these figures match up with yours...

..."Strategic submarines

All currently deployed strategic submarines were developed at the Rubin Central Design Bureau of Naval Equipment (St-Petersburg). All currently deployed strategic submarines were built at the Northern Machine-Building Production Association (Severodvinsk, Archangelsk oblast).

Submarines of the Project 667BDR (Delta III) class entered service in 1976-1982. The total of 14 ships of this class were built. These submarines carry the D-16R missile system with 16 R-29R (SS-N-18) missiles. Submarines of this class are being withdrawn from service.

Submarines of the Project 667BDRM (Delta IV) class entered service in 1985-1991. The total of 7 ships of this class were built, of which one (K-64 Vladimir) has been converted into a special-forces submarine. Submarines of this class carry the D-16RM missile system with 16 R-29RM (SS-N-23) missiles. The current plans call for keeping six 667BDRM submarines in service, so the submarines are undergoing overhaul during which they are equipped with new missiles.

Project 941 (Typhoon) submarines were deployed in 1981-1989. The total of six submarines of this class were built. Submarines of this class carry the D-19 missile system with 20 R-39 (SS-N-20) missiles. Since the missiles have reached end of their service lives, Project 941 submarines have been withdrawn from service. The only exception is the lead ship of the class, TK-208 Dmitry Donskoy, which has been refitted for tests of a new missile system, R-30 Bulava.

In 1996 Russia began construction of a strategic submarine of a new class, Project 955 (also known as Borey or Yuri Dolgorukiy). Construction of a second submarine of this type, Aleksandr Nevskiy, began in March 2004, and the third, Vladimir Monomakh - in March 2006. The new submarines will carry 16 launchers of a new missile, known as Bulava. Subsequent submarines, known as Project 955A, will have 20 Bulava launchers. The first two Project 955 submarines - Yuri Dolgorukiy and Aleksandr Nevskiy - were accepted for service in 2013. However, the submarines do not have missiles on board."...

In my opinion the R-30Bulava is the only strategic missile capable of testing NORAD or European strategic defense capabilities and it's still being tested with mixed results. The rest is basically junk...

Sea-launched ballistic missiles

All currently deployed sea-launched ballistic missiles were developed at the Machine-Building Design Bureau (Miass, Chelyabinsk oblast). The design bureau is currently named the V. P. Makeyev State Missile Center.

R-29R (SS-N-18) missiles are deployed on Project 667BDR submarines. The system was accepted for service in 1979. The missile has two liquid-fuel stages and carries three warheads. The missiles were produced at the Krasnoyarsk Machine-Building Plant.

R-29RM (SS-N-23) missiles are deployed on Project 667BDRM submarines. The system was accepted for service in 1986. The missile has three liquid-fuel stages (the third stage also works as a bus) and carries four warheads. In 1999 Russia resumed production of these missiles, in a modification known as Sineva, to be deployed on Project 667BDRM submarines during overhaul. Launch tests of the Sineva missile were completed in June 2004 and it was accepted for service in July 2007. Another modification of R-29RM, known as Liner, could carry up to 10 warheads.

Russia is currently developing a new sea-launched ballistic missile, known as R-30 Bulava. Development of this missile is done at the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology. Flight tests of the missile began in September 2005. The new missile system is to be deployed on Project 955 submarines. Bulava was declared as carrying six warheads.

http://russianforces.org/navy/

I think at this point they have two modern submarine platforms (boomers) and no up to date missiles, LT. Tell me if I'm reading this wrong.

Although the Russians are scrambling to build/refurbish I doubt much has changed since I posted this.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on April 02, 2015, 09:06:51 AM
Alex,

LT and myself had a fairly in depth discussion on Russian Submarine Fleet capabilities a number of months ago. Here's an excerpt...

Although the Russians are scrambling to build/refurbish I doubt much has changed since I posted this.

Brass

Great detailed info, thanks. The Borey class is now armed and Bulava missiles tested successfully at a range of 5, 000 kilometers as of last year.

Edit - Looks like they also have the Akula Class which we are unable to detect.

http://www.naval-technology.com/news/newsrussian-nuclear-submarine-sails-in-gulf-of-mexico-undetected (http://www.naval-technology.com/news/newsrussian-nuclear-submarine-sails-in-gulf-of-mexico-undetected)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 02, 2015, 12:50:40 PM
Crimean ports ‘may close due to transport isolation’


The steep drop in the profitability of Crimea’s ports is making it impossible to operate and maintain them in the proper technical conditions

The authorities of the occupied Crimea have recognized that due to Western sanctions and the transport isolation of the peninsula, the ports are suffering from a decline in profitability, according to Vasiuta.

In 2012 Crimean ports handled seven million tonnes of cargo, but in 2014 this had more than halved to three million tonnes.

"Such a situation virtually eliminates the possibility of making our own investment in the future development of the ports and maintaining them in the required technical condition," Vasiuta said.

In addition, he said the Crimean ports are experiencing difficulty in bringing their documents in line with the norms of Russian legislation, which "could lead to their complete shutdown
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/economics/1062948-crimean-ports-may-close-due-to-transport-isolation.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 02, 2015, 01:17:42 PM
Putin threatens nuclear war: Russian leader will take any necessary step to drive Nato out of Baltics and defend Crimea

Russian intelligence chiefs took part in secret meeting with U.S. officials
Outlined three potential flashpoints that could lead to all-out nuclear war
Said attempts to return Crimea to Ukraine will be dealt with as an invasion
Also demanded Nato breaks up so called 'rapid response force' in the Baltic and stops arming those fighting pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine

By John Hall for MailOnline

Published: 05:21 EST, 2 April 2015
Vladimir Putin is planning to exploit the threat of nuclear war to force Nato out of countries bordering Russia, it has been claimed.

A secret meeting between intelligence figures in Moscow and Washington reportedly revealed Putin will consider any attempt to return the Crimean peninsula to Ukraine as declaration of war and will take any necessary step - including using nuclear weapons - to retain control of the region.

Notes from the meeting are also said to have revealed that Putin is planning imminent 'destabilising actions' in pro-Western Baltic states in a direct challenge to Nato's promise to defend the countries from Soviet-style Russian expansionism.

These disturbances are thought to likely involve cyber attacks or ramping up local ethnic tensions in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania intended to unsettle the region.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3022793/Putin-threatens-nuclear-war-Russian-leader-necessary-step-drive-Nato-Baltics-defend-Crimea.html#ixzz3WBXBRMvl
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anathema on April 02, 2015, 01:43:40 PM
Yawn.  Put up or shut up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 02, 2015, 02:06:48 PM
I don't take the threat of nuclear war by the Russians seriously.  I think they should be allowed to keep Crimea, but there should be international sanctions, even more onerous than now.  No tour boats, no VISA/Mastercard, etc., no tours organized by Western companies, no Western technology for oil exploration, with the threat of heavy fines for non compliance. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 02, 2015, 02:19:26 PM
Really? You're seriously condoning grand theft and murder by invading Krym?

 Nuke threats are worse than murder threats, right? Would you tend to be concerned over a threat of bodily harm?

 It may well be just sabre rattling but it shows the state of mind of the Russian leader IMO.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 02, 2015, 02:25:13 PM
The majority of the population there wants to be part of Russia, phony referendum notwithstanding.  It's done.  But, the method of annexation (invasion) must be recognized, and not rewarded, by the international community.


I am not threatened for a variety of reasons.  Russia is just trying to punch above her weight class.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on April 02, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
I don't take the threat of nuclear war by the Russians seriously. 

Agreed. Two of Russia's first detection satellites are no longer in orbit. They have fallen out of orbit and have yet to be replaced. They are in a vulnerable position and would need to strike first and all out.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 02, 2015, 02:31:17 PM
Russia identifies 'Patriot' Gene.

You can't make this stuff up.  No one would believe you!

Researchers at Russia's Laboratory of Comparative Social Research at the Higher School of Economics have been comparing varieties of genes among residents of different countries, using research from the World Values Survey and DNA information from multiple sources. The first results are specifically related to the production of dopamine, which, in part, is responsible for the human sense of happiness, satisfaction with politics - and even how patriotic people feel.

The researchers have also now begun conducting surveys and collecting genetic material in different cities around the country to see how it breaks down by region. It's still not clear though exactly how much one's satisfaction with both life and political leaders depends on the "patriotism gene." If a connection is found, then will government officials who work in genetically disadvantaged regions have to be paid a hardship stipend?

Will it be possible, then, in the future to give people a "patriotism pill," so that citizens can be happier? It's an open question, and researchers think that given the pace of current research, it's not at all beyond the realm of possibility.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2015/04/02/russias_quest_for_the_patriotism_gene_111091.html

If you read the article, it, of course, begins that in Mother Russia, the Patriot Gene is most prevalent or most developed.

The article originally appeared in Kommersant.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on April 02, 2015, 02:51:47 PM
The majority of the population there wants to be part of Russia, phony referendum notwithstanding. It's done.  But, the method of annexation (invasion) must be recognized, and not rewarded, by the international community.


I am not threatened for a variety of reasons.  Russia is just trying to punch above her weight class.


It should NOT be DONE!.   Rewarding Russia with the illegal invasion and annexation of Crimea is unacceptable.  Applying sanctions, etc is not going to ever return Crimea to Ukraine.    Putin needs to be pushed back and the territory conquests he has acquired should be reversed.   If the world lets him get away with what he has done, he will continue......Period!

The nuclear threat is a lot of hot air Putin style intimidation.  We experienced the same thing throughout the cold war, including the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Putin should understand the first Nuke that he uses will be the end of him and his glorious vision of how he was good for Russia.

Bullies can only rule through intimidation as long as cowards are afraid to call their bluff.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 02, 2015, 02:59:43 PM
How can Crimea be undone when the majority of the residents there want to be part of Russia?  That is reality, no matter how much others wish to deny it.  The sanctions are to discourage territorial gains being normalized by the international community.   That is how Russia is "punished" for the invasion.


Crimea survived primarily through the tourist trade.  By cutting that trade with the rest of the world, the world sends a message on illegal invasions. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on April 02, 2015, 03:17:41 PM

It should NOT be DONE!.   Rewarding Russia with the illegal invasion and annexation of Crimea is unacceptable.  Applying sanctions, etc is not going to ever return Crimea to Ukraine.    Putin needs to be pushed back and the territory conquests he has acquired should be reversed.   If the world lets him get away with what he has done, he will continue......Period!

The only way for Ukraine to get Crimea back is to invade. Putin will never give it back, even if sanctions continued for years and Russia's economy shrank by 10%. But the Ukrainian military doesn't have the forces necessary to mount a successful invasion. If it foolishly tried to invade then Russia would immediately establish air supremacy and would do massive damage to the invading force.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 02, 2015, 04:08:40 PM
The majority of the population there wants to be part of Russia, phony referendum notwithstanding.

Based on my understanding this is rapidly changing because of the lack of promised improvements by Russia. I contend that polls are still skewed by the fear factor.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 02, 2015, 04:33:47 PM
Polls by independent Western sources find the overwhelming majority of residents want to be part of Russia.  It is so overwhelming, it is evident the locals would so vote in a fully free, independent referendum.  Crimea is not going to be part of Ukraine.  That is reality.  Ukrainians must adjust to that fact, ask for reparations for lost property, and ensure the West keeps punitive sanctions in place.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 02, 2015, 04:42:07 PM
What you suggest is not immoral but perverted.  Crimea is Ukrainian and if it must be invaded to maintain its territorial integrity, then so be it.  And despite your pessimism, many ethnic Russians are waking up Ukrainian.  And if they can not be made to accept this, they can leave just like the Tatars have been made to do so.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 02, 2015, 04:48:25 PM
Would it be more moral for thousands to die to return Crimea to a nation which the majority of Crimeans do not wish to return to?  The reality is, most Crimeans do not want to be part of Ukraine.  That is why they had their own parliament and de facto autonomy prior to the Russian invasion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 02, 2015, 06:20:03 PM
It is easy to dismiss the suffering of others when it is not you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/02/world/europe/russia-shuts-down-tv-station-serving-crimean-tatars.html

Russia Shuts Down TV Station Serving Crimean Tatars
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 02, 2015, 06:42:17 PM
Although tragic, it is not worth the life or blood of one Ukrainian soldier.  Let the Crimean Russians who overwhelmingly wanted unification with Russia deal with the consequences.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 02, 2015, 06:57:23 PM

The Lord hears the cry of the poor, but Boethius doesn't?

Are the Tatars Ukrainians?  Are their rights and property not worth defending or fighting for?

Ukraine is at war.  And no phony peace with phony people like the Kremlin mafia will change that and you know this . . .  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 02, 2015, 07:30:06 PM
Although tragic, it is not worth the life or blood of one Ukrainian soldier. 

And yet the soldiers doing the fighting seem to think it's worth the effort.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 02, 2015, 07:55:32 PM
Polls by independent Western sources find the overwhelming majority of residents want to be part of Russia.  It is so overwhelming, it is evident the locals would so vote in a fully free, independent referendum.  Crimea is not going to be part of Ukraine.  That is reality.  Ukrainians must adjust to that fact, ask for reparations for lost property, and ensure the West keeps punitive sanctions in place.
\

I do not accept  the accuracy of those polls.Even the polls prior to Maidan did not show a majority in favour of Russia.
Regardless-- LT has the key point-- the Crimea is part of Ukraine and for many reasons must be again.I reject this often stated idea that the population ever wanted to be part of Russia-- a better life-yes-everyone wanted that-- and Russia was not about to let Kiev improve Ukrainians lives.
The fact is that short term political opportunism at a moment of great confusion in Kiev was capitalised on  in the interests of the few and the detriment of the majority.
The fact is that the Kremlin did not want Ukrainians get a sniff of the results of Maidan penetrating the general masses thinking-lest it be contagious!!
Almost everyday we are reading more confessions of Russian complicity and views of why Ukraine is "owned" by Russia and the population has no right to be thinking Ukraine is an independent nation-the invasion of the Crimea was just a visible step in the process of Russia attempting to "control" Ukraine.
No--they should not reap any "rewards" for their invasion.
From the perspective of Ukrainian pride and nationalism-- Ukraine will never give up until it's borders are totally restored.The attempts to force settlements on Ukraine conceding control over it's own territory are doomed to failure-one way or another.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 02, 2015, 10:06:59 PM
Ukraine can also starve out Crimea.  It has chosen not to, but it can and the day is coming when it should and will.  Death to the traitors.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Young Fred on April 02, 2015, 10:33:55 PM
Although old polls may not reflect current thinking, some readers might be interested in these articles.

http://www.ibtimes.com/gallup-poll-shows-crimeans-had-very-different-ideas-about-russia-last-year-1561821

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1425949061
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 03, 2015, 12:16:30 AM
US Army invites: Ukrainian citizenship can provide 10 weeks
 
 Ukrainians in the United States that are willing to join the army, have a chance to get American citizenship just 10 weeks. This program provides an opportunity MAVNI (Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest), provides that "military set needed for national security."

Reported VIDIA with reference to the information published on this site USArmy.

MAVNI - a program of recruitment, which gives non-citizens the right to join the US Army in exchange for accelerated citizenship. "Most of the participants have become US citizens at the end desyatytyzhnevoho course of basic combat training," - said in a statement.

Currently the army is looking for licensed health professionals and persons who own more than one language, including Ukrainian.

Recall Pentagon added to the list of priority languages ​​Ukrainian.
http://vidia.org/2015/37713
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 03, 2015, 02:24:08 PM
Although old polls may not reflect current thinking, some readers might be interested in these articles.

http://www.ibtimes.com/gallup-poll-shows-crimeans-had-very-different-ideas-about-russia-last-year-1561821

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1425949061
Interesting stat of 61% below -that accords with numerous surveys& polls pre -Maidan. Being unhappy with Kiev never equalled leaving Ukraine== that is a very important point that is to often misrepresented. In the same boat is the being unhappy part-it was with old regimes and the Russian interference in Crimea  never allowed seeing what a new direction Kiev wished to take.
As an aside-- all democratic free countries seem to have the nut cases promoting secession-- eg In Australia some of the mega beneficiaries of the mineral boom became billionaires and now object to the effective 10% tax rate that they pay- and have often been promoters of secession from the commonwealth-- ridiculous ideas that have little attraction . I am sure other countries have similar cases-- but because a few can see a benefit( to them) in any given situation it does not make it right or justifiable for the country as a whole.Even less so when it is promoted by a foreign intruder using military force.
Quoting from the 2nd link--
"IF the survey that appeared on the pro-Russian Krymskaya Pravda website was real, then were a referendum to now be held on the status of Crimea,  61% of the respondents would vote for greater autonomy within Ukraine, and only 19% would vote to join Russia.  It is a big ‘if’, with Krymskaya Pravda now claiming that the survey was the “latest provocation by enemies of Crimea”.

Since Krymskaya Pravda was notorious for its pro-Russian position and hate speech against Crimean Tatars long before Russia’s invasion, it is possible that they are telling the truth, however novel this may be for the particular publication.  On the other hand, there are important discrepancies in their version.  They claim that false results were posted immediately prior to the website being subjected to a DDoS attack (when the server is brought down through multiple requests), meaning that it could not be accessed.  In fact the answers above, and results of two previous, equally interesting, questions, had already been seen early and widely reposted on social networks from Sunday evening onwards.  The figures above are reported by Radio Svoboda’s Crimean Service as being from 8.00 on March 9, after  4, 510 people had responded.  At 12.40, Radio Svoboda reports, the site went down.  "
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 03:07:55 PM
The Lord hears the cry of the poor, but Boethius doesn't?


Do you want to point out where in the New Testament God commands us to kill His children to alleviate the suffering of the poor?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 03:08:24 PM
And yet the soldiers doing the fighting seem to think it's worth the effort.


They are not fighting for Crimea.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 03:15:22 PM

Do you want to point out where in the New Testament God commands us to kill His children to alleviate the suffering of the poor?

What church do you go to?  Read the book of Revelation.  Ask the Lord what happened to His Children that crucified His Son to a piece of wood.

You made your opinion known Boethius.  The Tatars are not worth defending.  There is nothing else to discuss.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 03:27:06 PM
\

I do not accept  the accuracy of those polls.Even the polls prior to Maidan did not show a majority in favour of Russia.
Regardless-- LT has the key point-- the Crimea is part of Ukraine and for many reasons must be again.I reject this often stated idea that the population ever wanted to be part of Russia-- a better life-yes-everyone wanted that-- and Russia was not about to let Kiev improve Ukrainians lives.
The fact is that short term political opportunism at a moment of great confusion in Kiev was capitalised on  in the interests of the few and the detriment of the majority.
The fact is that the Kremlin did not want Ukrainians get a sniff of the results of Maidan penetrating the general masses thinking-lest it be contagious!!
Almost everyday we are reading more confessions of Russian complicity and views of why Ukraine is "owned" by Russia and the population has no right to be thinking Ukraine is an independent nation-the invasion of the Crimea was just a visible step in the process of Russia attempting to "control" Ukraine.
No--they should not reap any "rewards" for their invasion.
From the perspective of Ukrainian pride and nationalism-- Ukraine will never give up until it's borders are totally restored.The attempts to force settlements on Ukraine conceding control over it's own territory are doomed to failure-one way or another.


The Razumkov Centre, the premier pollsters in Ukraine (an independent Ukrainian think tank, partly established with that $5 billion in aid courtesy of the US government), has polled Crimeans every year for over a decade.  From the 2008 poll:


Quote
Secession of Crimea from Ukraine and joining Russia are supported by the overwhelming majority (75.9%) of Russians and a majority (55.2%) of Ukrainians. Among Crimean Tatars, such prospect is supported by only 13.8%, against – 68.5%.


The percentage declined in later years, dropping to 35% or so during Yanukovych's presidency.  However, before the Russian invasion, it increased to a majority of Crimeans, other than among the Tatar population.


Crimea has never been culturally or ethnically a Ukrainian region.  I also don't think Russia will just give it up, so, sanctions, long term sanctions, are required.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 03:27:33 PM
What church do you go to?  Read the book of Revelation.  Ask the Lord what happened to His Children that crucified His Son to a piece of wood.

You made your opinion known Boethius.  The Tatars are not worth defending.  There is nothing else to discuss.


Your opinion.  Nothing more.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on April 03, 2015, 03:52:40 PM
Read the book of Revelation.
A.k.a. "The Apocalypse:
Quote
"from the first word of the book in Koine Greek: Aποκάλυψις. Early Church tradition dates the book to end of the emperor Domitian (reigned 81-96 CE)...Tradition links him to John the Apostle, but it is unlikely that the apostle could have lived into the most likely time for the book's composition, the reign of Domitian, and the author never states that he knew Jesus.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation)

A rather questionable doctrinal source to appeal to in order to justify massacres - BTW not much unlike the ISIS - but then fanatics, of whatever creed, are always unsurprisingly similar in their contentions :-\.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 04:41:55 PM
Alex,

LT and myself had a fairly in depth discussion on Russian Submarine Fleet capabilities a number of months ago. Here's an excerpt...

Although the Russians are scrambling to build/refurbish I doubt much has changed since I posted this.

Brass

For what its worth, 30 year old nuke packing submarines are still very dangerous.  Ask the Swedes.  And the North Pole is a region ideal for submarine warfare.  It is not a region bustling with maritime traffic but a great place to launch nukes.

Although tragic, it is not worth the life or blood of one Ukrainian soldier.  Let the Crimean Russians who overwhelmingly wanted unification with Russia deal with the consequences.

You wrote that.  No one else did.  You said they aren't worth defending.  LIVE WITH IT.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 04:48:02 PM
There are ways to defend people without bloodshed.  Deal with that, warmonger.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 04:51:38 PM
There are ways to defend people without bloodshed.  Deal with that, warmonger.

The Crimean Tatars don't like in Canada or Houston.  They live in Crimea.  They don't have the luxury to sound like John Lennon and talk about peace all day with Yoko Ono bedside in front of the camera.  They live in Crimea which is attached to Ukraine.  Did you know that?

Like I said, it is easy to dismiss the suffering of others when it isn't you.  We knew defeatism is weak.  Who knew it could be so ugly?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 04:53:19 PM
So tell me how sending thousands of Ukrainians to their deaths in Crimea will change one thing for any of those Tatars.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 04:55:15 PM
Any invasion of Crimea would have to wait until the Donbass is taken. But their lives matter and there are a number of strategies Ukraine could employ right now to affect the return of the Crimea to Ukraine including arming the Tatars surreptitiously.  Partisan warfare and blockade.  But this assumes their lives aand property are worth saving.  Which I believe they are.  You don't
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 04:56:24 PM
Don't skirt around the question.  Tell me how thousands of dead Ukrainians will help alleviate the poverty and suffering of those Tatars.


Don't assume you know what is in my head.  You don't.  I just don't happen to believe thousands of dead Ukrainians is the way to achieve this.  But if you feel so strongly about it, you can volunteer to go fight.  Live your convictions. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 04:59:54 PM
Thousands of dead Ukrainians?  You are not serious.  This is not your field of expertise.  And I never said that thousands have to die. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 03, 2015, 05:00:24 PM


Like I said, it is easy to dismiss the suffering of others when it isn't you.   

It is also easy to demand that OTHER people go fight the fight and potentially/likely die...and for what?...a group of people, many of which don't want their 'help', and could potentially work actively against it. 

Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 05:01:36 PM
Thousands of dead Ukrainians?  You are not serious.  This is not your field of expertise.  And I never said that thousands have to die.


How many have died so far?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 03, 2015, 05:05:04 PM
What church do you go to?  Read the book of Revelation.  Ask the Lord what happened to His Children that crucified His Son to a piece of wood.

You made your opinion known Boethius.  The Tatars are not worth defending.  There is nothing else to discuss.

And what if people don't believe in the 'book of revelation'?....most of the world does not....most of the world may think  it is religious silliness....that goes for all the religions people go to war based on. 

Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 05:05:25 PM
It is also easy to demand that OTHER people go fight the fight and potentially/likely die...and for what?...a group of people, many of which don't want their 'help', and could potentially work actively against it. 

Fathertime!   

It's easy to sell out the territorial integrity of nations when it doesn't affect you.  I am grateful the Ukrainian military is defending my family in Ukraine.  If that gratitude makes me a warmonger in your eyes.  I can have no greater badge of honor.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 05:07:03 PM

How many have died so far?

You are dodging the issues I brought up in order to topic change.  All of Ukraine is worth defending or none of it is.  And no appeasement will stop the Kremlin mafia and you know this.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 03, 2015, 05:10:34 PM
It's easy to sell out the territorial integrity of nations when it doesn't affect you.  I am grateful the Ukrainian military is defending my family in Ukraine.  If that gratitude makes me a warmonger in your eyes.  I can have no greater badge of honor.

This is not much of a 'badge of honor' actually...but if that is all you can do...then I guess I should be happy for you. 

It isn't the Ukraine military that makes you a war monger...it is your overall warped mentality that does...if you had your way we would likely be actively involved in 6 wars by now...although all our children would probably be killed in these wars by now anyway...but of course what do you care...you have no children.

Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 05:11:29 PM
This is not much of a 'badge of honor' actually...but if that is all you can do...then I guess I should be happy for you. 

It isn't the Ukraine military that makes you a war monger...it is your overall warped mentality that does...if you had your way we would likely be actively involved in 6 wars by now...although all our children would probably be killed in these wars by now anyway...but of course what do you care...you have no children.

Fathertime!   

yeah whatever you say dude
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 03, 2015, 05:12:33 PM
You are dodging the issues I brought up in order to topic change.  All of Ukraine is worth defending or none of it is.  And no appeasement will stop the Kremlin mafia and you know this.

That is a false dichotomy....It doesn't have to be ALL or NOTHING...why do you insist it has to be?

Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 05:24:12 PM
That is a false dichotomy....It doesn't have to be ALL or NOTHING...why do you insist it has to be?

Fathertime!

newsflash, I don't care what you think.  I care about what  Boethius thinks because I like and respect her.  You?  That ship left the train tracks a long time ago genius
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 03, 2015, 05:44:56 PM
newsflash, I don't care what you think.  I care about what  Boethius thinks because I like and respect her.  You?  That ship left the train tracks a long time ago genius

It doesn't matter to me if you 'respect' my opinion or 'like me' or not....that still doesn't change the fact that you presented a false dichotomy which got called out for what it was....

Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on April 03, 2015, 06:54:06 PM
A unified Ukraine is good for all of Ukraine. A unified Ukraine is bad for Putin. The new 'republics' want to be separate while still being dependent on Ukraine. That ambiguity needs to be looked at closely. It's apparently acceptable to take over govt buildings by force, and hold elections, and bring in Russian tanks, but it's unacceptable to cut off govt checks from Ukraine. What is the current list of separatists' demands? What do they want? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on April 03, 2015, 06:57:07 PM
Ukraine can also starve out Crimea.  It has chosen not to, but it can and the day is coming when it should and will.  Death to the traitors.

but...what about the good people in Crimea? I know some of them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 07:36:46 PM
but...what about the good people in Crimea? I know some of them.

I don't think it will come to that.  But things will get bad for the people of Crimea.  Russia will get weaker and Ukraine will get stronger.  In the tipping point, if it does come to what I have described, the people will leave.  The scum will go back to Russia and the good will back back to Ukraine.  The fighting will root out most of the bastards.  Innocent people will die.  Innocent people always die.  But the gold and blue will fly over Ukraine again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 03, 2015, 08:08:08 PM

They are not fighting for Crimea.

 Wrong! They are fighting for a reunified Ukraine.

  When was the last time you were there to actually talk to anyone?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 08:39:49 PM
I talk to Ukrainians, in Ukrainian, at least twice a week, sometimes more.  What they say is not at all what posters here post, but they generally don't know any Westerners, other than me, and they are living without any financial aid from Westerners (unless I send something).   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 08:40:25 PM
Wrong! They are fighting for a reunified Ukraine.

agree

  When was the last time you were there to actually talk to anyone?

That's cold and its true

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 08:50:00 PM
Why?  I can sit down with anyone from anywhere in Ukraine, and speak to them in their native tongue.  None of you can do that. 


One of the better half's classmates contacted him on facebook.  I don't have a facebook or vk account, but he set one up to contact old military buddies.  The classmate now lives in Western Europe, but supports several children and her mother in Kyiv, so travels there frequently.  Less than 2 weeks ago, she told him there is an underlying tension, palatable.  The mood is explosive.


A month ago, SIL told me that living there "is like living on a powder keg".  She also happens to volunteer at one of the hospitals, and says the way wounded soldiers are treated is deplorable.   A little more than a week ago, our nephew told us Kyiv has thousands of refugees, jobs are scarce, and the situation is tense.


My relatives in Ivano Frankivsk have told me of demonstrations against deployments, thanks to a lack of equipment.  Yet you guys, sitting at home, think it is hunky dory for these young men to throw away their lives for a Crimea they cannot reclaim.  The situation there is very different from the rest of Ukraine.


So nope, I obviously know nothing of what is going on and will defer to the non Slavic speakers in the crowd.  I'll be certain to let all the Ukrainians I speak to know that they don't know what is going on around them, and they should come here to learn the truth.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 09:00:22 PM
More insults?  Is that the best you can do?

I am grateful that the Ukrainian military is fighting.  Like I said, the Ukrainian military and God is defending my family.  Luckily not all have given into defeatism.  And tell us again how the Russians will honor the truce . . . The Tatars are not worth dying for . . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 09:11:55 PM
Where are the insults?  Nothing I posted is inaccurate.


Now please tell me where Ukrainian soldiers are fighting in Crimea.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 09:14:06 PM
If you cannot read that you insulted all of us, who merely said we disagree with you on Good Friday, then I repeat my request, what church do you go to?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 03, 2015, 09:18:58 PM
Good Friday is not until next week for me.


Suggesting you do not speak the language is hardly an insult.  I would hazard a guess I speak to more Ukrainians than most anyone on this forum.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 09:52:59 PM
Like I said, your lack of empathy and judgment is impeaching your normally impeccable credibility.  You insulted us.  NONE of us have insulted you. 

You lean on your language ability as a justification for your immoral position.  If every Ukrainian resisted the war as the Russian Crimeans, I would let sleeping dogs lie.  But there are those in the field fighting back just as there are those in Crimea that are resisting.  You abandon them.  If you cannot feel shame, ask all your Ukrainian buddies in whatever language of your choosing why you are right and everyone else is wrong.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 03, 2015, 10:02:08 PM
Good Friday is not until next week for me.


Suggesting you do not speak the language is hardly an insult.  I would hazard a guess I speak to more Ukrainians than most anyone on this forum.


Unfortunately, LT sees any type of disagreement, with his views, as an insult.  I do find it somewhat funny how members here complain about egotistical Russians telling Ukrainians how things are yet have no problem doing the same. 


I appreciate these types of insights, Bo.  I hope you continue to post them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 10:08:50 PM

Unfortunately, LT sees any type of disagreement, with his views, as an insult.

Yet you guys, sitting at home, think it is hunky dory for these young men to throw away their lives for a Crimea they cannot reclaim. 

Deal with that, warmonger.

Try again buddy
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 03, 2015, 10:11:34 PM
Try again buddy


First, I'm not your buddy.


Second, if you want to get aggressive with people, expect the same response.


Third, stop acting like a victim when you do get that response.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 03, 2015, 10:33:59 PM
Game, set and match.

Defeatism is indefensible, impractical and immoral.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 03, 2015, 10:36:30 PM

Defeatism is indefensible, impractical and immoral.


You have just described the way you interact on this forum perfectly.  You're like the boy who cried wolf when it comes to insults.  The closest thing to an insult was the warmonger comment and I would say it's probably more truth than insult.  Eveything else you cried about wasn't an insult.


As for whether Ukraine should try and retake Crimea.  That is obviously their call, but I believe it would be a bad call if they decided to do so.  Once (if) they can rid mainland of Russia, they need to rebuild Ukraine which will take a long time and more suffering.  Trying to retake Crimea will only add to that misery as well as the time to rebuild.  There may even come a point of no return where they won't be able to rebuild if they continue down the war route.  That would be exactly what Russia wants.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on April 03, 2015, 11:54:41 PM
Good Friday is not until next week for me.


Suggesting you do not speak the language is hardly an insult.  I would hazard a guess I speak to more Ukrainians than most anyone on this forum.

I seriously think you are full of it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 04, 2015, 07:53:05 AM

You have just described the way you interact on this forum perfectly.  You're like the boy who cried wolf when it comes to insults.  The closest thing to an insult was the warmonger comment and I would say it's probably more truth than insult.  Eveything else you cried about wasn't an insult.

Well whatever

As for whether Ukraine should try and retake Crimea.  That is obviously their call,

And no one disputes that . . .

but I believe it would be a bad call if they decided to do so.  Once (if) they can rid mainland of Russia, they need to rebuild Ukraine which will take a long time and more suffering.  Trying to retake Crimea will only add to that misery as well as the time to rebuild.
 

That is more defeatism.  Ukraine will take back Crimea.  Crimea will earn for liberation.  Here is a little foretaste:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/15/crimea-s-curse-one-year-on.html

Quote
Denis Baturin with the Crimea Public Chamber told The Daily Beast. “Every truck bringing goods to the peninsula has to pay various fees of about [about $2,400] and wait for five days on the border for clearance in each direction to and from Crimea. That makes everything you buy in our stores much more expensive.”

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/one-year-after-annexation-sanctions-isolate-crimea-world-n324131

Quote
McDonald's was not the only international company to withdraw from Crimea: many others followed, including PayPal, Amazon, and even Russian banks.

Once a thriving resort zone, Crimea now stands separated from the rest of the world: international cell phones do not work, and neither do credit cards.

The sole land link to the Ukrainian mainland was closed off by Kiev, food prices have skyrocketed, tourist flows are down and 3G cellphone service is off. The peninsula is even lacking in fresh water and electricity, more than 80 percent of which came from Ukraine.

These problems which aren't news to members of this forum bear repeating and reexamination.


And we are supposed to turn our backs on these people (who are Ukrainian) just because helping them is in the opinion of some not practical

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/03/us-ukraine-crisis-turkey-idUSKBN0MU0MX20150403

Quote
"The Crimean people and particularly Crimean Tatars have been oppressed, attacked and their rights have been violated ... We are sending an informal mission to observe human rights violations in Crimea soon,"

Mevlut Cavusoglu
Turkish Foreign Minister 


There may even come a point of no return where they won't be able to rebuild if they continue down the war route.  That would be exactly what Russia wants.

No.  Cities and countries always rebuild given the right policies and with some help from their friends.  Does Ukraine have any?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on April 04, 2015, 09:34:01 AM
No.  Cities and countries always rebuild given the right policies and with some help from their friends.  Does Ukraine have any?


Right policies or friends? Maybe both?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on April 04, 2015, 10:22:40 AM
I seriously think you are full of it.

I failed to read anything whatsoever insulting in Boe's post. She has an opinion and a very valid one. Please point to me where you think she's wrong?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 04, 2015, 10:38:01 AM
I failed to read anything whatsoever insulting in Boe's post. She has an opinion and a very valid one. Please point to me where you think she's wrong?

You fail because she did not direct her insults at you.  She calls people who disagree with her war mongers and chicken hawks for disagreeing with her indefensible, impractical and immoral position of legitimating Russian aggression. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 04, 2015, 11:28:52 AM
Good Friday is not until next week for me.


Suggesting you do not speak the language is hardly an insult.  I would hazard a guess I speak to more Ukrainians than most anyone on this forum.


For the love of god, I don't understand why you give this moron a venue to spew his ignorance and stupidity.


Do you want to borrow this and use it instead of replying to Mr. Wonderful?


(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/NOBOZOS_zps9a2ffbe2.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 04, 2015, 11:29:40 AM
I seriously think you are full of it.


Oh, and I'm sure you DO talk to a ton of Ukrainians in UA, right?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 04, 2015, 11:37:00 AM
I am just a phone call away Charlie.  Classy and brave as yellow snow . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 04, 2015, 11:38:44 AM
I am just a phone call away Charlie.  Classy and brave as yellow snow . . .


And what are you going to do? Bore me to death?


Ooo, I'm shaking.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2015, 11:50:21 AM
You fail because she did not direct her insults at you.  She calls people who disagree with her war mongers and chicken hawks for disagreeing with her indefensible, impractical and immoral position of legitimating Russian aggression.


The warmonger statement is accurate.  I didn't call anyone a chickenhawk.   Nor did I state Russia's aggression should be legitimized. 


Realistically, Ukraine is not going to get Crimea back from Russia.  Sending boys to die is not going to change that.  So, the world's alternative is to make retaining it a huge financial drain.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2015, 11:51:00 AM
I seriously think you are full of it.


I am crushed.  Absolutely crushed by your disapproval and disbelief.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 04, 2015, 12:06:04 PM

And what are you going to do? Bore me to death?


Ooo, I'm shaking.

We both know what kind of man you are old man.  So stop pretending.  You are about as tough butter in a microwave.  If you are going to use fighting words, be a man about it.  LFU did.  What's your problem?  Don't answer that.  Now go tattle because I used your first name.


I am crushed.  Absolutely crushed by your disapproval and disbelief.

Like I said, what church do you go to?  If you despise us so much why are you here?


The warmonger statement is accurate.
 

You don't know the first thing about war or warmongers.

I didn't call anyone a chickenhawk.
   

Yes you did and I am not going to argue this with you anymore.  You should apologize and move on.

Nor did I state Russia's aggression should be legitimized. 

A peace for Crimea would effectively  legitimate Russian aggression.  You are a lawyer.  You know that.



Realistically, Ukraine is not going to get Crimea back from Russia.  Sending boys to die is not going to change that.  So, the world's alternative is to make retaining it a huge financial drain.

Is this how you live with yourself?  By making the obscene palatable?

An invasion of Europe in 1941 was not possible or practical.  Nor was it practical in 1942 and only partially so in 1943.  But it did happen.  People around the world and in Ukraine - see a united Ukraine.  They see a reconquest of the Donbass and Crimea.  I support those people.  If that makes me a warmonger in your eyes, get some glasses.  If that means I am chickenhawk in your eyes, because I am not fighting myself go to Walgreens and buy some Kleenex.  I am not ashamed of what I believe because it is moral.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2015, 12:21:11 PM
I am not apologizing for my views.  Nor do I need to explain myself to you or anyone else.


You do know war, but advocate sending thousands of Ukrainians to die. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 04, 2015, 12:35:55 PM
Let me clarify my views.  I do not think Ukraine is in the position to take on the Russian army in any offensive capacity.  That is suicide and that is not the art of war.  The only way I think this will end is with decisive military victories for Ukraine.  This requires offensive capabilities that Ukraine (a smaller force) does not have.  So thus without international political support for arming Ukraine with superior military capabilities offensive operations against the Russian military are not possible in 2015 or 2016.

My views are no different than John McCain.  The Novorossiyans call me a war monger.  That's fine.  Is the Donbas and Crimea financially money holes?  I don't think any place on God's green earth is unproductive.  People make the land unproductive.  With economic freedom and political reform, anything is possible.  The entire world is getting richer.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on April 04, 2015, 01:39:41 PM
Bo:
Quote
Realistically, Ukraine is not going to get Crimea back from Russia. Sending boys to die is not going to change that.  So, the world's alternative is to make retaining it a huge financial drain.

Correct.

There is an interesting oped piece in today's Moscow Times that speaks to the issue of future reparations, debt forgiveness, and free gas for years. Russia does need to pay dearly, in terms that will impact every Russian citizen, for the brazen theft of Ukrainian territory.

I would personally like to see additional sanctions against Russia, such as suspension from the WTO and SWIFT, in place for decades to come, for the mistreatment of Crimean Tatars. I would like to see the issue tied to an international tribunal that would monitor this, and for each year that Russia fails to meet international standards regarding the Tatars, an additional five years of crippling financial sanctions would be levied. Make Russia pay far into the future, long after the corpse of some forgotten man lies rotting next to Stalin in some hole along the Kremlin wall.

In regards to Crimea, Bo is absolutely correct in that the vast majority of those people did not wish to remain in Ukraine. However, that does not excuse the way in which Moscow plotted, lied, and stole the territory.

In Russian security council meetings during the events of Maidan, there was no overwhelming concern for the people, the Russian language, or the culture of Crimea. There was scant concern for ethnic Ukrainians and/or Tatars in Crimea. There was a concern that the revolution might spread southward, but most ministers of government were of sufficient intelligence to understand that the large natural Russian bias in the region would see such movement extinguish.

In those meetings there was great anticipation about "what if we didn't have to pay for leases," and similar issues. The annexation of Crimea was a plum that fell in their lap, so to speak, and had absolutely zilch, nada, zero, to do with concern for those who live there. The fact that Putin would lie over and over about it, only to later go on national television and brag about his conquest, speaks volumes about his personal character and mental state.

However, we should remember that the majority of those who live there made his deception very easy. During the months leading up to the annexation, the Kremlin paid professional pollsters to judge the reaction of Crimean citizens were Russia to make such a move. The results confirmed that it would be easy to accomplish.

A normal government in Moscow could have easily directed, quietly, for the existing Crimean parliament to conduct a referendum. But this one is not normal, and leaves nothing to chance. Thus the misdirection, lies, and general dishonesty we saw in the annexation.

The election itself reflected the dishonesty so common in Russian elections. Even if every ethnic Ukrainian citizen had voted, and most understood that remaining alive and healthy dictated that they stay home, and even if every ethic Tatar had voted, and those folk who have experienced the wrath of mother Russia wisely stayed away from the polls; still the final result was a joke. Just as he didn't need to steal the election of 2012, he would have won anyway, and just as he didn't need to steal the parliamentary election of 2010, as his party would have won anyway, there is a need of some strongmen to bolster their own egos with inflated numbers. That was also clearly seen in the Crimean referendum.

There are patterns:

- The war with Georgia in 2008 was said to be only a Russian response to Georgian aggression. That was despite inviting foreign media to come to the border in the three days leading up to the war. That claim was made despite the fact that for weeks the Russian army had begun to mass along the border. Yet, leading up to the presidential election of 2012 we saw the man bragging on television about how he ordered the invasion of Georgia because Russian intelligence organs had supposedly discovered a Georgian plot to sabotage preparations for the coming Sochi Olympics.

- In the annexation of Crimea, we were told that the little green men were a mystery--home grown local guys who had visited the corner Army surplus store and had acquired the latest Russian-issue uniforms, without insignia of course, and amazingly modern weapons which we were told can now be found at the corner Army surplus store. Hundreds of Russian helicopters, many seen with my own eyes, dropped paratroopers in to reinforce the little green men who had previously visited the surplus stores. Ah, but that was a figment of the imagination. They didn't exist, because the treaty/lease provisions limited the number of Russian helicopters (3) that could fly over Crimea at any given time--and we all know that Russia would never violate a treaty. But, now we learn (sigh) that it was part of an elaborate scheme, directed from the Kremlin to bring Crimea and Sevastopol home to mama Russia.

- Weak egos often feel the need to appear strong: as in bare chested horseback riders, hunters for tigers that have been previously shot with tranquilizers, discovering artifacts that have been conveniently positioned at the bottom of rivers, and rigged elections even when the rigging is unnecessary, etc.

Fortunately, dishonest and dishonourable patterns eventually unravel. This will happen, and the colour revolution that some so desperately fear, will eventually find a home on their doorstep.

We live in interesting times.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 04, 2015, 02:01:42 PM

No.  Cities and countries always rebuild given the right policies and with some help from their friends.  Does Ukraine have any?


With their level of corruption, it makes me wonder if they can come back.  As for friends, I don' think there is such a thing.  It tends to be more of a "what's in it for me" approach with most countries.  Hopefully, there can be a mutual benefit to a prosperous Ukraine without selling the whole damn country down the road.


First thing first, they need to take back east Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 04, 2015, 02:04:09 PM
I don't dispute your analysis.  It just assumes a rational and stable Russia.  I think Russia is collapsing and that collapse is gradual now, it could be more rapid later on.  In the event of a collapse, a reconquest of the Donbas and Crimea need not be bloody or as impossible as you believe.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 04, 2015, 02:07:19 PM

Good analysis, Mendy.


Oh, and I'm sure you DO talk to a ton of Ukrainians in UA, right?


When I switched service providers, I obtained a sweetheart deal, 3 cents a minute for calls to Europe, including Ukraine.   I know it is no longer available, because I know coworkers who asked for the deal and didn't receive it.  It is grandfathered, even though I signed up well over a decade ago, and it is so cheap, it is not worth skyping.


I have relatives in many of Western Ukraine's cities, but many others still live in the village, where internet service is unavailable.  However, they all have telephones (none did before the collapse).   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 04, 2015, 03:29:33 PM

You don't know the first thing about war or warmongers.
   


Oh? And you do know about war?


Well, about warmongers you seem like an expert.


The communists had a term for people like you: Useful Idiots.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 04, 2015, 07:39:19 PM
My two cents' worth (and that's about all it's worth, but everyone else is putting forward their views, so why can't I?).  Unlike most here, I don't have family or relatives in Ukraine or Russia.  I do have friends there, however, so I do have a tiny stake in the future well-being of Ukraine, as I don't want anything to happen to them.

First - the idea behind Minsk II seems to have been the closest that we'll see to a real peace plan, even though it is extremely flawed and badly skewed in favour of the separatist areas.  There needs to be a concerted effort to try to make it work (at least, better than it is at the moment).  As Russia won't allow UN peacekeepers into the area, that really leaves only the OSCE as a neutral force for good.  They need to be strongly beefed up, and given proper powers to enforce what's supposed to happen under the treaty.  The separatist forces need to be made to understand that will be severe consequences for their continued breaches of the ceasefire, and those consequences MUST be enforced.  If that means people being sent to The Hague to face a war crimes tribunal, so be it.

Second - although there are supposed to be referenda and agreements about the level of self-government for the separatist regions before the border becomes an issue, I believe that the border area is more critical.  The holes along that whole eastern front need to be filled in before anything else can happen, otherwise the non-existent Russian forces will continue to make a mockery of Ukrainian sovereignty by going backwards and forwards across the border with total impunity.

Third - once that's done, another border area can be created around the DPR and LPR.  If they seriously want independence greater autonomy, and can hold proper, independently-supervised referenda to show that this is the will of the people, let them.  Then, with the new borders in place, tell them that, with autonomy, comes the responsibility for EVERYTHING within those borders, just as was the case in Crimea.  Everything means EVERYTHING, from repairing all the war-damaged homes and businesses to paying all the salaries and pensions that were formerly the responsibility of the Ukrainian Government, back-dated to the initial declarations of "independence" last year.  Why should the rest of Ukraine have to be bankrupted to pay for the consequences of the megalomania of a few people?

Let's see how long that lasts.

Finally - Crimea.  I can agree with everyone here - it IS part of Ukraine, BUT the majority of the people do apparently want to be part of Russia.  Hold another referendum, but make this one that EVERYONE outside the region can be comfortable with.  Give all the options as if the annexation had never happened - remain part of Ukraine (with or without changes to its autonomous status and the way that it was governed); become a totally independent country; become part of Russia (again, with options on what sort of status it would have).  Presumably the Ukrainian constitution would have to be amended to allow the second and third options to be put in a ballot.

The second or third options, if chosen, would then have to have the consequence of full reparations to be paid for all businesses seized or "Russianised," and payments to people injured during the invasion and the families of those people killed.  For those people who could not (or would not) stay under these terms (e.g. many of the Tatars), compulsory purchase of their homes and businesses by the new state (or Russia) at the market rates prevailing BEFORE the invasion, plus an allowance for the time since, so that they may have a chance to start a new life elsewhere in Ukraine.  All property insurance policies in force at the time of the invasion to be paid out in full for all such refugees.  Water, electricity, telecommunications and transport links to be restored in full at no cost to Crimea, but only if Russia provides the cost-equivalent amount of gas to Ukraine at no charge and forgoes any claim to outstanding amounts owed.  The cost of gas over and above this equivalency to be paid for at the latest rates in force BEFORE the invasion of Crimea.

That's just a start.  I know that it's mainly pie in the sky, because Russia will never agree, but are there any politicians out there with the intestinal fortitude to do something for their people, and not just for themselves?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on April 04, 2015, 10:05:20 PM
Well articulated, AnotherKiwi.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Slumba on April 04, 2015, 10:32:09 PM
Mendy, the only point I would make - we have China (which charges families for the bullet used to execute their kin) which has the lowest level of tariffs, MFN status,  and Saudi Arabia (which beheads people), to deal with first, if we are going to be enforcing our moral outrage rigorously.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 05, 2015, 05:27:29 AM
I am glad AnotherKiwi is not negotiating for the West.  He offers nothing that he haven't already got with the status quo.  His proposal legitimates the seizure and is silent on Crimean Tatars.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on April 05, 2015, 06:24:04 AM
That's just a start.  I know that it's mainly pie in the sky, because Russia will never agree
Your plan is idealistic because you have  biased understanding of political processes there.  Enough said, that Ukraine will never agree on your plan. Though  part of your plan Kiev will try to fulfill, namely the blocade of rebels regions as you actually has proposed.
   All plans which will try to relieve the responsibility of Ukraine in the settlement will fail  assuredly.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 05, 2015, 09:16:14 AM
If the regions want to separate why should Ukraine be responsible for social payments and reconstruction?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 05, 2015, 11:22:59 AM
Deshchytsia: Kyiv not give the Crimea or Donbass for "compromise with Russia"
Sunday, April 5, 2015, 18:29






Print  Comments 6


Kyiv will not relinquish their territories - Crimea and Donbas - for some compromise with Russia.

Said the Ambassador of Ukraine in Poland Andriy Deshchytsia in an interview with Polish newspaper "Gazeta Wyborcza".

"Crimea as Ukrainian territory is occupied by Russia. We consider Russia an aggressor. We do not consider the possibility to give Donbass and Crimea as a compromise. We want to regain full control over territory and control of the border," - he said.
http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2015/04/5/7063780/

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 05, 2015, 11:59:00 AM
Is he a warmonger too?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on April 05, 2015, 01:27:57 PM
You fail because she did not direct her insults at you.  She calls people who disagree with her war mongers and chicken hawks for disagreeing with her indefensible, impractical and immoral position of legitimating Russian aggression.

I fail because there were no insults in the posts. Wishing there were insults in the post or trying to read between the lines doesn't  divine them or make them there
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 05, 2015, 02:17:56 PM
Whatever makes you happy dude
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on April 05, 2015, 03:11:23 PM
What makes me happy has nothing to do with the invariable fact that there was no insult in that post. Why not back away, move on rather than attempt to defend the indefensible? You have been warmongering. In fact almost nothing but. That's not an insult. It's a fact.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 05, 2015, 03:16:28 PM
How have I been warmongering?  Seriously.  How?  Show me evidence?  Define warmongering.  Can you?  For someone who complains that his debate partner has nothing substantive to say, this thrust of yours is very gaseous.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 05, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
I am glad AnotherKiwi is not negotiating for the West.  He offers nothing that he haven't already got with the status quo.  His proposal legitimates the seizure and is silent on Crimean Tatars.

Try opening your eyes and reading what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 05, 2015, 04:21:33 PM
I am sorry I don't think your ideas are worth reconsidering.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 05, 2015, 04:31:16 PM
Well articulated, AnotherKiwi.

Thanks Mendy.

Your plan is idealistic because you have  biased understanding of political processes there.

Of course it's idealistic.  That's my whole point.  Without some idealism and hope, mixed with pragmatism, there is no future for the whole region (not just Ukraine).

Enough said, that Ukraine will never agree on your plan.

Well, as Ukraine (the government) is highly unlikely to see this, it doesn't really matter.

Though  part of your plan Kiev will try to fulfill, namely the blocade of rebels regions as you actually has proposed.  All plans which will try to relieve the responsibility of Ukraine in the settlement will fail assuredly.

Why should Ukraine have any responsibility at all for the settlement?  It was not Ukraine which invaded Crimea - it was Russia, and your beloved President has not stopped boasting about how successful his wonderful plan was.  It was not Ukraine which invaded Donbas - you can't invade your own country!  Ukraine should not be prepared to negotiate any terms until such time as Russia makes adequate reparations for all the damage it has caused.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 05, 2015, 04:33:40 PM
I am sorry I don't think your ideas are worth reconsidering.

You don't have to reconsider them - just read them PROPERLY to avoid spouting another load of incorrect keyboard flatulence.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 05, 2015, 05:32:10 PM
My two cents' worth [blah blah blah]

First - the idea behind Minsk II seems to have been the closest that we'll see to a real peace plan, even though it is extremely flawed and badly skewed in favour of the separatist areas.  There needs to be a concerted effort to try to make it work (at least, better than it is at the moment).

And how is that working out?  Who is breaking the truce?  What will you or anyone else do to the truce breakers?


As Russia won't allow UN peacekeepers into the area, .

Peacekeepers?  You mean blue helmeted speed bumps?  From what country?  What are their rules of engagement?  What command will they have?  A mixed national force or from all one country?  Which country?  What will be their patrol zones?  Where will they be billeted?  Who will feed them?  Any oversight over them in case of misconduct?  What happens if they are kidnapped or killed?  What about medical support?  Length of their rotations?  Tell us!


that really leaves only the OSCE as a neutral force for good.


That is not their job.  And they will tell you this.  AND MENDY, YOU KNOW THIS, WHY DIDN"T YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?

The OSCE is there to report and create dialogue between the European nations.  They are there to establish facts on the ground and to create dialogue between all European parties.  They are not a government agency.  DUH.


They need to be strongly beefed up, and given proper powers to enforce what's supposed to happen under the treaty.



You don't know what you are talking about.

  The separatist forces need to be made to understand that will be severe consequences for their continued breaches of the ceasefire,


They only understand force and the Ukrainian military is the only source of force to them . . . .

and those consequences MUST be enforced.  If that means people being sent to The Hague to face a war crimes tribunal, so be it.


Excuse me while I $hit my pants.

I don't really feel like going through the rest of your post because it's garbage.  You need to practice what you preach.  If you want to tell others what awesome ideas you have and wield the cluebat, read a book or use the google machine and read, because although you are pro-Ukrainian, you have proven yourself a rather lacking in knowledge and manners.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 05, 2015, 05:56:39 PM
And how is that working out?  Who is breaking the truce?  What will you or anyone else do to the truce breakers?


Peacekeepers?  You mean blue helmeted speed bumps?  From what country?  What are their rules of engagement?  What command will they have?  A mixed national force or from all one country?  Which country?  What will be their patrol zones?  Where will they be billeted?  Who will feed them?  Any oversight over them in case of misconduct?  What happens if they are kidnapped or killed?  What about medical support?  Length of their rotations?  Tell us!

 

That is not their job.  And they will tell you this.  AND MENDY, YOU KNOW THIS, WHY DIDN"T YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?

The OSCE is there to report and create dialogue between the European nations.  They are there to establish facts on the ground and to create dialogue between all European parties.  They are not a government agency.  DUH.

 


You don't know what you are talking about.
 

They only understand force and the Ukrainian military is the only source of force to them . . . .
 

Excuse me while I $hit my pants.

I don't really feel like going through the rest of your post because it's garbage.  You need to practice what you preach.  If you want to tell others what awesome ideas you have and wield the cluebat, read a book or use the google machine and read, because although you are pro-Ukrainian, you have proven yourself a rather lacking in knowledge and manners.

Pot.  Meet kettle.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 05, 2015, 07:24:40 PM
Pot.  Meet kettle.

Oh please enlighten us with your wisdom . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 05, 2015, 08:24:32 PM
I really don't know why I bother!  Read what I wrote, and don't comment on what I didn't write!  Is that clear enough for you????

And how is that working out?  Who is breaking the truce?  What will you or anyone else do to the truce breakers?

Read what I wrote about the OSCE.

Peacekeepers?  You mean blue helmeted speed bumps?  From what country?  What are their rules of engagement?  What command will they have?  A mixed national force or from all one country?  Which country?  What will be their patrol zones?  Where will they be billeted?  Who will feed them?  Any oversight over them in case of misconduct?  What happens if they are kidnapped or killed?  What about medical support?  Length of their rotations?  Tell us!

All extremely good points - but totally irrelevant because RUSSIA WILL NOT ALLOW UN PEACEKEEPERS TO BE DEPLOYED.  DUUUUUHHHH to you too!


That is not their job.  And they will tell you this.  AND MENDY, YOU KNOW THIS, WHY DIDN"T YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?

The OSCE is there to report and create dialogue between the European nations.  They are there to establish facts on the ground and to create dialogue between all European parties.  They are not a government agency.  DUH.

Again - read what I wrote. 

Quote from: Anotherkiwi
They need to be strongly beefed up, and given proper powers to enforce what's supposed to happen under the treaty.

Is your brain incapable of holding onto what it sees for more than a nano-second?  The OSCE are in by far the best position to see what's happening on both sides of the conflict.  That, to me, makes them ideal to enforce the ceasefire, PROVIDED they are given the staff, money and powers to do so.

You don't know what you are talking about.

And you do?

They only understand force and the Ukrainian military is the only source of force to them . . . .

Unfortunately I have to agree.  However, for any approximation of peace to happen, there must be people on both sides who are prepared to lay down their weapons and at least TRY to hammer out a solution.
 
Excuse me while I $hit my pants.

You're excused.  Take your time coming back from the laundry.

I don't really feel like going through the rest of your post because it's garbage.

You say this, and yet can't be bothered elucidating why.  What's wrong with it?  Be specific.

You need to practice what you preach.  If you want to tell others what awesome ideas you have and wield the cluebat, read a book or use the google machine and read, because although you are pro-Ukrainian, you have proven yourself a rather lacking in knowledge and manners.

Considering this very post, I feel that I've been extremely restrained in how I've responded to you.  Had I answered in the same vein as you, or in the way that I feel you deserve, I would probably be on "Watched" or even "Moderated" status.  While you are happy to wear that as a badge, I would not be.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 05, 2015, 09:06:38 PM
You don't understand the mission of the OSCE.  It is not a governing body or but a forum - a place where people can come to concensus or not.  So therefore beefing it up is beyond its mandate and since the whole point of the forum was to create a dialogue with Russia and since Russia failed to maintain any sense of civilization, OSCE is pointless now.  Which is why Belvis continues to use it as a reference of legitimacy.

Use the google machine.

As for the rest of your post as to why it is "flawed,"  why should I do your work for you?  If you were the least bit courteous, I might go point by point why it is dog excreta.  But as you have been nothing but unpleasant, let's just say, I'm busy.

Toodles
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 06, 2015, 03:54:04 AM
You don't understand the mission of the OSCE.  It is not a governing body or but a forum - a place where people can come to concensus or not.  So therefore beefing it up is beyond its mandate and since the whole point of the forum was to create a dialogue with Russia and since Russia failed to maintain any sense of civilization, OSCE is pointless now.  Which is why Belvis continues to use it as a reference of legitimacy.

I do understand its mission.  For the THIRD time, that is why I wrote:

... that really leaves only the OSCE as a neutral force for good.  They need to be strongly beefed up, and given proper powers to enforce what's supposed to happen under the treaty.

If Russia won't allow the UN to send peacekeeping troops, then what alternative is there?  How about you come up with something positive for a change, instead of decrying everyone else's ideas?  What's YOUR plan?

As for the rest of your post as to why it is "flawed,"  why should I do your work for you?  If you were the least bit courteous, I might go point by point why it is dog excreta.  But as you have been nothing but unpleasant, let's just say, I'm busy.

Toodles

I've been a damned sight more courteous than you.  Just humour me, and show me where I've gone so wrong.  If you're reasonable, and make good points, I'll take note.  If, on the other hand, it's the same non-answers that you've contributed to this thread over the last 24 hours, I won't.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 06, 2015, 07:28:51 AM
Guys,

You're both arguing moot points.

The OSCE will never come forward and flat out say there are Russian soldiers operating in Ukraine. The closest you're going to get is words along the lines of "There are unidentified soldiers and/or equipment crossing the border between Russia and Ukraine" or words to that effect. Why?

Because the minute they confirm the Russian military is in Ukraine they'll be subject to eviction, detention and harassment by said Russian government and soldiers. In other words, the Russians will consider them an enemy combatant.

1) Understand the OSCE monitors only about 2/10's of the border and Russian occupied Ukraine. They don't have control or the resources to monitor what's really happening there in the first place.

They're restricted/confined/held to specific areas, sometimes within hearing distance of armored vehicles moving but are not permitted to investigate and/or 'inexplicably' chased off other areas/checkpoints for several hours/days at a time for no other reason than the obvious (Russian men and equipment moving).

2) I've worked with and along side the OSCE. If you've never looked up OSCE member nations? Do so, it's enlightening.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 06, 2015, 09:10:40 AM
Whatever makes you happy dude


Such a childish comment. And you want people to take you seriously when you can't help yourself look like a clown?


Now, who's fault is that?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 06, 2015, 12:59:09 PM
The OSCE will never come forward and flat out say there are Russian soldiers operating in Ukraine. The closest you're going to get is words along the lines of "There are unidentified soldiers and/or equipment crossing the border between Russia and Ukraine" or words to that effect. Why?

Because the minute they confirm the Russian military is in Ukraine they'll be subject to eviction, detention and harassment by said Russian government and soldiers. In other words, the Russians will consider them an enemy combatant.

Doesn't that make it a Catch-22 situation for the Russian government, though?  If the OSCE are in Ukraine, and there are officially no Russian troops in Ukraine, how can Russia then take any action against the OSCE without confirming the truth of what's really going on?

1) Understand the OSCE monitors only about 2/10's of the border and Russian occupied Ukraine. They don't have control or the resources to monitor what's really happening there in the first place.

They're restricted/confined/held to specific areas, sometimes within hearing distance of armored vehicles moving but are not permitted to investigate and/or 'inexplicably' chased off other areas/checkpoints for several hours/days at a time for no other reason than the obvious (Russian men and equipment moving).

Hence my suggestion to beef them up, both in terms of resources and power.  I'm well aware that the chances of this happening are the equivalent of lordtiberius or myself flying to the moon without a spaceship.

2) I've worked with and along side the OSCE. If you've never looked up OSCE member nations? Do so, it's enlightening.

Brass

Every country in Europe and the FSU (plus others).  Very interesting that even Switzerland is a member.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 06, 2015, 02:34:22 PM
Doesn't that make it a Catch-22 situation for the Russian government, though?  If the OSCE are in Ukraine, and there are officially no Russian troops in Ukraine, how can Russia then take any action against the OSCE without confirming the truth of what's really going on?

Do what they're doing now. Insist any problems the OSCE monitors have doing their job are with the local terrorists/separatists and continue denying Russian military/soldiers are involved.

If the OSCE officially reported that the Russian military were in Ukraine, it wouldn't change the dynamic, the Russian military are already there. All it would accomplish is to declare open season on the OSCE monitors themselves.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 06, 2015, 02:41:54 PM

Such a childish comment. And you want people to take you seriously when you can't help yourself look like a clown?


Now, who's fault is that?

Blah blah blah,
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 06, 2015, 02:46:06 PM
Guys,

You're both arguing moot points.

The OSCE will never come forward and flat out say there are Russian soldiers operating in Ukraine. The closest you're going to get is words along the lines of "There are unidentified soldiers and/or equipment crossing the border between Russia and Ukraine" or words to that effect. Why?

Because the minute they confirm the Russian military is in Ukraine they'll be subject to eviction, detention and harassment by said Russian government and soldiers. In other words, the Russians will consider them an enemy combatant.

1) Understand the OSCE monitors only about 2/10's of the border and Russian occupied Ukraine. They don't have control or the resources to monitor what's really happening there in the first place.

They're restricted/confined/held to specific areas, sometimes within hearing distance of armored vehicles moving but are not permitted to investigate and/or 'inexplicably' chased off other areas/checkpoints for several hours/days at a time for no other reason than the obvious (Russian men and equipment moving).

2) I've worked with and along side the OSCE. If you've never looked up OSCE member nations? Do so, it's enlightening.

Brass

How can I argue a moot position when you have restated my position again?

AKiwi, you want to start clean slate, NP.  My plan is to arm the Ukrops until they retake the Donbass, Crimea and Kuban.  This is not going to end until Russia collapses whether it is in a civil war of its own choosing or if Ukraine occupies Moscow.  My money is on the former but we shouldn't rule out the later.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 06, 2015, 03:05:47 PM
How can I argue a moot position when you have restated my position again?

Sorry about that. I lost track of the discussion.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 07, 2015, 05:52:16 PM
Sorry about that. I lost track of the discussion.

Brass

IN fairness to you, you said it better.

3 Russian activists protesting the Crimean invasion go to trial for raising the German Flag in Kaliningrad

http://www.colta.ru/articles/society/6914

The Russian propaganda boy known to us as Motorola admits he is a war criminal:

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/kremlin-backed-fighters-confession-of-killing-prisoners-might-become-evidence-of-war-crimes-audio-385532.html

Still think they will win?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 08, 2015, 10:14:57 AM
How can I argue a moot position when you have restated my position again?

AKiwi, you want to start clean slate, NP.  My plan is to arm the Ukrops until they retake the Donbass, Crimea and Kuban.  This is not going to end until Russia collapses whether it is in a civil war of its own choosing or if Ukraine occupies Moscow.  My money is on the former but we shouldn't rule out the later.


(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/worf_zpscdd43ea9.gif)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 08, 2015, 11:24:56 AM
Russia's Gazprom Says Net Profit Plummeted 70% in 2014
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-gazprom-says-net-profit-plummeted-70-in-2014/518289.html

Police Seek Tupolev Manager Who Cost Russia's Aviation Industry Millions
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/police-seek-tupolev-manager-who-cost-russias-aviation-industry-millions/518836.html

Former Finance Minister Slams Russian Government on Corruption
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/business/article/former-finance-minister-slams-russian-government-on-corruption/518790.html

Russian Car Market Contraction Gains Pace as Crisis Collapses Market
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-car-market-contraction-gains-pace-as-crisis-collapses-market/518838.html

Fight Over Ukraine Darkens Future of Russia-U.S. Nuclear Arms Control
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/fight-over-ukraine-darkens-future-of-russia-us-nuclear-arms-control/518783.html

Russian Unemployment Rises as Jobs Get Scarcer
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-unemployment-rises-as-jobs-get-scarcer/518742.html

Russian Suspect Says Ex-KGB's Litvinenko Might Have Accidentally Killed Himself
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-suspect-says-ex-kgbs-litvinenko-might-have-accidentally-killed-himself/518803.html

Russian Media Made Up Story About Child Killed in Ukraine,
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-media-made-up-story-about-child-killed-in-ukraine-says-bbc/518831.html

Russian Hackers Had Access to Obama's White House Schedule — CNN
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-hackers-had-access-to-obamas-white-house-schedule--cnn/518796.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 08, 2015, 12:49:35 PM

(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/worf_zpscdd43ea9.gif)

You want to start over, turn over a new leaf?  Tell me what you object to with this post?  Sans insults if you can.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 08, 2015, 01:25:50 PM
Heh


Before you arm YOUR Ukrops, you should plug the black hole where the funding for those weapons go. That's first and foremost.


Then you weed out the Roosyia sympathizers from the brass and conduct efficient and meaningful training, hopefully with NATO instructors.


Before you arm anyone, you make sure that ALL the politicians are all in sync and speak with one voice.


Then you arm your army.


All of this while trying to revamp your economy.


Offer the traitors the option to return to Ukraine or forever go back to Roosyia. Those who want to return receive them with open arms but use the Reagan doctrine of "Trust but verify."


Those who decide to go back to the Czar wish them well, say goodbye and seal the borders shut. For this you will need your well-trained and well-armed army.


Immediately hold general elections.




What you are offering is cannon fodder and nothing accomplished.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 08, 2015, 01:42:16 PM
Your post is brilliant.  Who would argue against this?  Where have I written otherwise.  I agree.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 11, 2015, 11:11:06 AM
The Indians HATE Their New Russian-Made Stealth Fighter

New Delhi says Sukhoi T-50 is pricey, sloppy, under-powered




T-50. Wikipedia photo






Russia’s new T-50 stealth fighter is fast, maneuverable, heavily-armed and hard to detect on radar. In theory.

But according to Indian air force officials, in practice the Sukhoi-made stealth jet is also too expensive, poorly engineered and powered by old and unreliable engines.

The Indians’ complaints illustrate the yawning gulf between stealth warplane design and the actual production of radar-evading jets. In other words, it’s one thing to sketch an advanced warplane on paper. It’s quite another to build one and get it to work.

All new aerospace development is difficult and many planes get poor reviews early in testing. But the gripes coming out of New Delhi are particularly worrisome for the Russians.


http://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-indians-hate-their-new-russian-made-stealth-fighter-d89b9ce721de
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on April 11, 2015, 11:30:05 AM
Please stop spewing Western propaganda, Mike.  You know that Putin's military is more than a match for the USA, at least in theory.   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 11, 2015, 01:10:50 PM
My Bad.. maybe.  :rolleyes:

 Is India east or west?   :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 11, 2015, 01:13:51 PM
Germany to bring 100 mothballed tanks back into service

Germany plans to bring 100 mothballed tanks back into service in what is widely seen as a response to rising tensions with Russia over Ukraine.

The tanks were sold to industry as part of defence cuts after the Cold War.

The German defence ministry said it would spend €22m (Ł16m;$24m) on bringing its total of tanks to 328.

Nato officials agreed in February to create a quick-reaction force to meet the challenges posed by the Ukraine crisis and by Islamic extremists.

Nato defence ministers have also agreed to more than double the size of the alliance's Response Force.

The moves were seen as a signal that Nato regards Russia's seizure of Crimea and its military forays into eastern Ukraine as much more than a temporary crisis.

German defence ministry spokesman Jens Flosdorff confirmed a report by Der Spiegel (in German), saying 100 Leopard 2 battle tanks will be bought back from the defence industry, which has kept them in storage.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32257543
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on April 11, 2015, 01:29:38 PM
Russia’s new T-50 stealth fighter is fast, maneuverable, heavily-armed and hard to detect on radar. In theory.

But according to Indian air force officials, in practice the Sukhoi-made stealth jet is also too expensive, poorly engineered and powered by old and unreliable engines.

The Indians’ complaints illustrate the yawning gulf between stealth warplane design and the actual production of radar-evading jets. In other words, it’s one thing to sketch an advanced warplane on paper. It’s quite another to build one and get it to work.

The signature from the large engines make the T-50's stealth claim hard to back up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 11, 2015, 04:26:42 PM
Minsk was never meant to be a permanent agreement, but as intrigues in the Kremlin persist.  The front is more and more permanent:

http://www.euronews.com/2015/04/09/normandy-group-to-discuss-minsk-agreement-in-berlin/

The danger is that neither side is geographically safe.  Only the Dnieper river serves to separate the two forces and that river is more of a speed bump than a geographic barrier.  Ukraine only spends $ 2 to every $ 100 the Russians spend. Sigh, the rest of Europe still thinks this is 1989 . . .  .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 12, 2015, 09:54:44 AM
Russians Begin to Count the Cost of Crimea

On March 18, Russia celebrated the first anniversary of its reunification with (or the annexation of) Crimea. The previously jubilant Russian media is now more concerned with Crimean problems and focuses on the difficulties the peninsula faces as a result of joining the Russian Federation. So what conclusions can we draw a year after the annexation of Crimea?

The peninsula has joined the Russian Federation for good. Whoever becomes Russia's next president will not relinquish Crimea. If Crimea became a part of Ukraine again, the next logical steps would be returning Abkhazia and South Ossetia to Georgia and giving the self-proclaimed republic of Transdnestr back to Moldova.

This seems like an impossible scenario. Therefore, Russia's adversaries will be forced to recognize the de facto annexation of Crimea.

From an economic standpoint, Russia gained nothing by annexing Crimea. Russia does not need Crimea. Russia did not even need the city of Sevastopol since a new naval base is already being built in Novorossiysk. Acquiring Crimea has put an additional strain on the modest government budget. It will take a while to integrate Crimea with mainland Russia.

New transportation, utility, and financial infrastructure has to be developed at a cost of trillions of rubles. In a similar fashion, Moscow has now been paying for Chechen stability and reconstruction for more than a decade.

As the post-annexation euphoria dies down, Crimean residents will start feeling the full brunt of Russia's problems — the inflation, the unstoppable corruption, the abuse of power, etc. Crimea cannot remain an oasis of contentment in the midst of the country's stagnation. It will be impossible to modernize the region's vitally important tourism industry within a short period of time. And even if it were, the industry will have to compete with resorts in Egypt, Turkey and, to an extent, Sochi.

There is an obvious political impact of the Crimean annexation. The move brought Russia international sanctions and increasing isolation, which have had an increasingly negative effect on its economy in the last 12 months. It appears that the Russian ruling class did not expect the consequences to be so serious.

 Public opinion polls already indicate that Crimea is losing its exceptionalism in the eyes of most Russians.

Russians are just now beginning to realize that the annexation of Crimea has brought them no benefits apart from the pride of living in a country that the rest of the world fears.

Despite the propaganda offensive, the Ukraine conflict no longer attracts as much support as it did before.
Russia's problems with Crimea and Crimea's problems with Russia will only continue to grow. We will see the effects of this in a year during the celebration of the second anniversary of the reunification. But next time, we can definitely expect less fanfare.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russians-begin-to-count-the-cost-of-crimea/518822.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 12, 2015, 11:52:00 AM
The return of Crimea to Ukraine will collapse Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 12, 2015, 12:59:55 PM
No. Keeping Krym will collapse Russia unless they continue the invasion and get a land bridge to supply it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 12, 2015, 01:16:46 PM
Whatever
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 12, 2015, 10:27:13 PM
As Economic Pressure Mounts, Millions of Russians Edge Toward Poverty


One result of the crisis is likely to be an increase in the numbers of those sleeping rough on Russian streets.

Clutching two plastic bags full of clothes she had just collected from a charity center in central Moscow, Svetlana Burkutskaya said that rising prices were making it harder for her to find enough money to put food on the table for her three school-age children.

"There is not sufficient money for food now," said Burkutskaya, who has twins aged 14 and another child aged 13. "They are on holiday in a week and I don't know what I will feed them."
Some experts predict that almost 10 million people — from a population of 143 million — could this year join the 16.1 million people already living below the poverty line.
Despite popular preconceptions of inner Moscow as a playground for the rich and powerful, the director of the Taganka Children's Fund that runs the center, Tatyana Troitskaya, said aging residential buildings in former urban industrial zones still house many people eking out a subsistence existence.


A World Bank report on the Russian economy published on April 1 highlighted poverty as one of the key consequences of a crisis caused by falling oil prices and Western sanctions over the Ukraine crisis. The Russian economy is expected to contract by up to 5 percent this year.

Growing penury was a "worrisome trend," Birgit Hansl, the World Bank's Russia economist told reporters during the report's presentation in Moscow.

The number of people living below the official poverty line — measured last year as those with monthly incomes less than 8,234 rubles ($145) — ticked up by about 600,000 people in 2014 to reach 11.2 percent of Russians, according to state statistics service Rosstat.

The World Bank predicts the poverty rate could reach 14.2 percent in 2015.

But one poverty expert, who requested anonymity out of a fear of being seen to paint too grim a picture, said it could go as high as 18 percent, meaning about 9.7 million people will cross into poverty by the end of the year.
For the complete story read it at...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/...-poverty/518959.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 12, 2015, 10:40:10 PM
The Ruble is up and it appears they are planning another summer offensive.  Not exactly bad news for Russia
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Slumba on April 12, 2015, 11:08:47 PM
Concerning Crimea, Russia did greatly increase the amount that certain government workers got, that were previously being paid by Ukraine - and this increase went to retired teachers and others.  An optimistic pro-Russian person would say that it is great that they are getting paid more; a cynic would point out that Russia increased the pay of precisely those people that were most likely to protest, and most likely to be well-regarded in their community.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 12, 2015, 11:13:46 PM
Russians Begin to Count the Cost of Crimea

On March 18, Russia celebrated the first anniversary of its reunification with (or the annexation of) Crimea. The previously jubilant Russian media is now more concerned with Crimean problems and focuses on the difficulties the peninsula faces as a result of joining the Russian Federation. So what conclusions can we draw a year after the annexation of Crimea?



Russians are just now beginning to realize that the annexation of Crimea has brought them no benefits apart from the pride of living in a country that the rest of the world fears.

Despite the propaganda offensive, the Ukraine conflict no longer attracts as much support as it did before.
Russia's problems with Crimea and Crimea's problems with Russia will only continue to grow. We will see the effects of this in a year during the celebration of the second anniversary of the reunification. But next time, we can definitely expect less fanfare.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russians-begin-to-count-the-cost-of-crimea/518822.html

In no way do I support how the Kremlin took control of Crimea, but having recently returned from Russia -  'Crimea is Ours' was the overwhelming sentiment, rather than discontent....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 13, 2015, 03:13:30 AM
In no way do I support how the Kremlin took control of Crimea, but having recently returned from Russia -  'Crimea is Ours' was the overwhelming sentiment, rather than discontent....

I always love some guys tiny sample type comments. The ignorance of those people and sheer stupidity is underwhelming-- report back when Russia is paralysed thru economic ineptitude and when the bombs start going off in Russian transport hubs -let us know what the idiots have to say then.

Concerning Crimea, Russia did greatly increase the amount that certain government workers got, that were previously being paid by Ukraine - and this increase went to retired teachers and others.  An optimistic pro-Russian person would say that it is great that they are getting paid more; a cynic would point out that Russia increased the pay of precisely those people that were most likely to protest, and most likely to be well-regarded in their community.
This is the sort of crap that gets repeated without considering the wider facts. Of course people will stampede to higher pensions or wages-- at least superficially. Reality is that those same increases have not only been cut back--or in some cases only paid selectively-- but massive inflation and costs have eaten very substantially into the "increases"
Reality is that bribing people at gunpoint does not legitimise an invasion-- wake up guys and stop spewing crap.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 13, 2015, 03:17:22 AM
The return of Crimea to Ukraine will collapse Russia.
No. Keeping Krym will collapse Russia unless they continue the invasion and get a land bridge to supply it.

LT is right here-- when Russia is forced top leave the Crimea it will be the catalyst for change in Russia-- by definition that will be a collapse of Russia as we know it and have known it over recent years.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 13, 2015, 04:55:55 AM
Jay is right because Jay understands the Russian mentality.  It must expand or die.

http://youtu.be/HE6rSljTwdU

Russia's current economic system cannot sustain its growth.  More military victories mean more isolation - less foreign currency exchange.

Russia's Sistema explained


http://www.rferl.mobi/a/russia-analysis-whitmore-power-vertical/26952868.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 13, 2015, 05:28:49 AM
I always love some guys tiny sample type comments. The ignorance of those people and sheer stupidity is underwhelming-- report back when Russia is paralysed thru economic ineptitude and when the bombs start going off in Russian transport hubs -let us know what the idiots have to say then.

JayH

 it is hardly a 'tiny sample' when it was what I saw in shop windows, t-shirts, stickers in cars - also many Donbass ones - and on the lips of many people I spoke to....

I am trying to get you to understand what 'we' are up against - not supporting their beliefs...

If you are a Russian farmer the 'reverse sanctions' on food imports are 'wonderful' and most people blame any hardship on 'western ignorance'.

Sanctions  - at the moment - are only strengthening the polarity. :(





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 13, 2015, 06:47:53 AM
I always love some guys tiny sample type comments. The ignorance of those people and sheer stupidity is underwhelming-- report back when Russia is paralysed thru economic ineptitude and when the bombs start going off in Russian transport hubs -let us know what the idiots have to say then.
This is the sort of crap that gets repeated without considering the wider facts. Of course people will stampede to higher pensions or wages-- at least superficially. Reality is that those same increases have not only been cut back--or in some cases only paid selectively-- but massive inflation and costs have eaten very substantially into the "increases"
Reality is that bribing people at gunpoint does not legitimise an invasion-- wake up guys and stop spewing crap.


Yeah you idiots/fools/ignorant beasts/....stop making observations because really you are just spewing crap...lord Jay knows all!  ;D


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 13, 2015, 07:04:19 AM

Yeah you idiots/fools/ignorant beasts/....stop making observations because really you are just spewing crap...lord Jay knows all!  ;D


Fathertime!

You cannot explain why you FEEL the way you do.  Keep up the hate.  It serves your cause well.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 13, 2015, 07:09:49 AM
You cannot explain why you FEEL the way you do.  Keep up the hate.  It serves your cause well.


You are an integral part of the 'dyad of hate'...when LordJay are in agreement, anyone that disagrees is labeled something or another.   :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 13, 2015, 08:17:57 AM
No facts
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 13, 2015, 01:39:10 PM
You cannot explain why you FEEL the way you do.  Keep up the hate.  It serves your cause well.


Gee, I love your routine.  :blowkiss:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 13, 2015, 02:33:06 PM
As oil prices were discussed on this thread, I thought I'd post an interesting article on the collapse, and the Saudis' role in that collapse, from today's National Post.  This is not related to Russia, directly.
http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/saudi-arabia-was-worried-about-a-danger-much-bigger-than-shale-when-it-blindsided-oil-markets?__lsa=07f9-14db (http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/saudi-arabia-was-worried-about-a-danger-much-bigger-than-shale-when-it-blindsided-oil-markets?__lsa=07f9-14db)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 13, 2015, 03:11:24 PM

Gee, I love your routine.  :blowkiss:

No imagination
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 13, 2015, 04:14:02 PM
Speaking of oil producers who have failed to diversify their economy


http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/13/investing/canada-economy-trouble-low-oil-price/index.html?iid=HP_LN
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 13, 2015, 04:17:23 PM
Actually, the Canadian economy is very diversified.  There isn't much oil produced in Ontario or Quebec, for example.  However, the TSX is heavily weighted in commodities, and the federal government developed much of their economic strategy on oil. 
 
Alberta's economy is not diversified, so it is expected to suffer due to low oil prices.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 13, 2015, 07:19:17 PM
The Orenburg Twerk a children's dance now apart of a criminal investigation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEUnumjwP3s No doubt a CIA plot http://sledcom.ru/news/item/914759
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 14, 2015, 07:09:50 AM
You are kinky.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 15, 2015, 03:59:04 PM
Ukrainians ‘called us occupiers,’ returning Russian mercenaries tell media

Many commentators have speculated that Moscow faces a potentially serious problem when those who have gone to fight in Ukraine return to Russia with their anger and their military skills, the Kremlin may face a more immediate danger: those returning are undercutting Russian propaganda about what is happening in Ukraine.

Today, Yekaterinburg’s independent online news agency reported that “about 180″ fighters from the Urals returned from Ukraine today and are telling their families, friends and the media that “local people [in Ukraine] called us occupiers,” an epithet that calls into question Moscow’s messages.

The returnees were led by Vladimir Yefimov, the spetsnaz veteran who recruited them to go to Ukraine in the first place.
Read more at the link
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/04/16/ukrainians-called-us-occupiers-returning-russian-mercenaries-tell-media/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 15, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
You are kinky.  ;)

This video is disturbing.  It says some ugly things to women about what we expect from them. I posted it on my Facebook page and got a similar reaction.  Its sad that this is our export to Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 16, 2015, 11:22:52 AM
Ukrainians ‘called us occupiers,’ returning Russian mercenaries tell media

Many commentators have speculated that Moscow faces a potentially serious problem when those who have gone to fight in Ukraine return to Russia with their anger and their military skills, the Kremlin may face a more immediate danger: those returning are undercutting Russian propaganda about what is happening in Ukraine.

Today, Yekaterinburg’s independent online news agency reported that “about 180″ fighters from the Urals returned from Ukraine today and are telling their families, friends and the media that “local people [in Ukraine] called us occupiers,” an epithet that calls into question Moscow’s messages.

The returnees were led by Vladimir Yefimov, the spetsnaz veteran who recruited them to go to Ukraine in the first place.
Read more at the link
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/04/16/ukrainians-called-us-occupiers-returning-russian-mercenaries-tell-media/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/04/16/ukrainians-called-us-occupiers-returning-russian-mercenaries-tell-media/)


The original article says that was only in the LPR.  The individual interviewed, Yefimov, said they moved to the DPR, where the situation is "much better".  He is also organizing another group of mercenaries to go to Donbas, and has 40 volunteers, so far.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2015, 01:14:14 PM
I posted the 'condensed version' to satisfy anonmod.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 16, 2015, 01:38:34 PM
It wasn't to satisfy an anonymous moderator, it was to satisfy forum rules.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18830.0 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18830.0)
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2015, 01:40:02 PM
Same thing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on April 16, 2015, 01:57:17 PM
I found this very interesting article about Romania's resolve to be ready to fight Russia.  Initially I thought to myself, why would they want to do that?  Then of course it popped out, and the reason is Moldova. 

excerpt
The Principality of Moldavia was and always has been an integral part of the lands settled by the Romanian people. The Principality of Moldavia, Principality of Wallachia and Principality of Transylvania were and are the core of the Romanian nation, but Russia again and again has occupied, split, subjugated, oppressed and ethnically cleansed Moldavia. In 1812 Russia forced the Ottoman Empire to cede the Eastern half of the Principality of Moldavia, known as Bessarabia and located between the Prut and Dniester River. To rid itself of the Romanian population Russia in 1834 banned the Romanian language from schools and government, which was soon followed by a ban of Romanian in churches, media and books.  Those who protested or continued to use their native language were deported to Siberia.

Sounds very familiar to tales by Ukrainians about how they were treated by Russia.  Seems that Russia has a real problem with all of the countries in their former Soviet Bloc empire.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/04/16/why-romania-will-fight-russia/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on April 16, 2015, 02:13:28 PM
Now look at this choice bit of logic about what Russia did next, and you can easily draw the parallel to their actions today and the logic they employ now to justify their actions.  It's really quite mind blowing!

excerpt
In 1856 after the Crimean War, the Treaty of Paris returned a small Southern part of the occupied territory to the United Principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia. However following the Russo-Turkish War of 1877–78, Russia threatened Romania into returning that Southern part – despite Romania and Russia having been allies and even though before the war Russia had signed a treaty with Romania to respect its territorial integrity. Still, by Russia’s perfidious logic, it argued that although it had agreed to respect the territorial integrity of Romania as defined by the Treaty of Paris, by attacking the Ottoman Empire, Russia had broken the treaty; and since Romania had approved of said attack, Romania also had broken and voided the Treaty of Paris, thus giving Russia the right (!) to redraw the borders of Romania at will.


There are some scores to settle, and those who may wish to settle those scores against Russia include Romania and Turkey.  Perhaps Germany and China will pile on as well, once WWIII gets under way.  Sorry to write that, but there is no other real alternative if Russia keeps using military force to steal land not belonging to them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 16, 2015, 07:39:28 PM
Let me put this a different way.  You have no credibility to speak on any issue as your words contradict reality.  Such artless expressions connote a deliberate attempt to deceive. 

Meanwhile things are improving for Russia but not Ukraine:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/04/russian-financial-rally

Sanctions will lapse by July.  Oil prices are up and the sanctions are toothless.  The West is not helping Ukraine. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on April 16, 2015, 09:30:02 PM
Let me put this a different way.  You have no credibility to speak on any issue as your words contradict reality.  Such artless expressions connote a deliberate attempt to deceive. 

Meanwhile things are improving for Russia but not Ukraine:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/04/russian-financial-rally

Sanctions will lapse by July.  Oil prices are up and the sanctions are toothless.  The West is not helping Ukraine.

Sure pal.  Please tell us again how Ukrainian soldiers should give their lives in a desperate and futile attempt to take back Crimea in an invasion.  In the meantime "silence is golden".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on April 16, 2015, 09:47:37 PM
Should the USA send lethal aid to Ukraine?  This is the 64 Million Dollar question.  About 09:22 in to the video are Humvee's arriving in Kiev.  They have been given to the 95th Brigade.  The worry of course is that American military aid may fall into the separatists hands.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBdtZRmB0n4
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 17, 2015, 06:38:15 AM
Its not a $ 65 m question, Mr. Liar, it is an $ 88 b question.  Stop twisting my words. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 18, 2015, 10:44:35 AM
Interesting video and confirms Beavis definition of typical Russian political mentality.


http://www.rferl.org/content/daily-vertical-kremlin-maidanphobia/26948659.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 19, 2015, 09:53:38 AM
This is a translation of the interview with the Russian businessman who was told Ukrainians did not want to join Russia -


http://uatoday.tv/politics/among-thugs-part-i-422256.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 19, 2015, 12:17:06 PM
Sigh, I hate to say it but things are improving for Russia, though there appears to be a power struggle going on the Kremlin.  The sanctions which weren't very strong will expire in July.  But the bloodletting has slowed but not stopped.  I am hearing ancedotal unrest in Kiev and Ukraine on the whole.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 19, 2015, 01:07:54 PM
Ruble Tumbles After Russian Central Bank Hints at Further Rate Cuts
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ruble-tumbles-after-russian-central-bank-hints-at-further-rate-cuts/519287.html

Economic Crisis Forces Russians to Slash Spending on Food
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/economic-crisis-forces-russians-to-slash-spending-on-food/519318.html

Russia Delays Manned Space Flights From New Cosmodrome to Save Money
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/business/article/russia-delays-manned-space-flights-from-new-cosmodrome-to-save-money--report/519294.html

Russia Economic Data Blunts Putin's Optimism
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-economic-data-blunts-putins-optimism/519340.html

Moscow Can't Afford Foreign Performers
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/moscow-cant-afford-foreign-performers/519268.html

More Construction Workers Strike at Russia's Beleaguered Vostochny Cosmodrome
workers at Russia's beleaguered Vostochny Cosmodrome are refusing to work until they are paid their salaries for the past four months
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/news/article/more-construction-workers-strike-at-russias-beleaguered-vostochny-cosmodrome/519341.html

No Iran Deal on the Horizon for Russia
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/no-iran-deal-on-the-horizon-for-russia/519329.html









Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 19, 2015, 01:18:11 PM
Don't you have other sources than the Moscow Times?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 19, 2015, 03:39:23 PM
It's harder for russkis to refute a .ru site than a .ua site.  Even if they say the same thing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 19, 2015, 03:55:42 PM
They do have elaborate schemes of disinformation and propaganda (maskirovka.)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 20, 2015, 04:04:17 PM
Russia Consumer Confidence Collapses

Despite inflation coming under control, and a ruble that isn’t as weak as it was at the start of the year, consumer confidence in Russia collapsed in March. The downfall was significant.

For the first quarter of 2015, consumer confidence fell 14 points to -32.3. Ouch. In the fourth quarter of 2014, it had fallen 11 points to -18 after staying relatively stable in the second and third quarter, according to Russia’s Federal State Statistics Service. The figures were released on April 15.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/04/19/russia-consumer-confidence-collapses/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on April 20, 2015, 05:11:16 PM
And to top off all the bad news Russia lost to Ukraine in boxing last weekend. Olexander Usyk won the fight by KO while a patriotic crowd cheered him on.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 20, 2015, 05:34:31 PM
Yeah and the chess championship just a bit ago..  :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on April 20, 2015, 06:04:26 PM
And to top off all the bad news Russia lost to Ukraine in boxing last weekend. Olexander Usyk won the fight by KO while a patriotic crowd cheered him on.

Did the crowd do the 'putin huilo' chant?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 20, 2015, 06:06:22 PM
Yeah and the chess championship just a bit ago..  :clapping: :clapping:

Slightly better news on the sporting front, though - the Russian women's Rugby Sevens team made the final of the World Rugby Women's Sevens Series tournament in Langford, British Columbia, this weekend, although beaten by New Zealand.  It's the first time they've ever made a final - pretty impressive for a team ranked eight coming into the tournament.  Star player for the Russians was Ekaterina Kazakova, who scored all their 10 points with two tries.

http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ekaterina+kazakova&biw=1366&bih=617&tbm=isch&imgil=ahl72rN8_eFeXM%253A%253BEfuEHHywr1tHDM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.zimbio.com%25252Fpictures%25252FdjW8EBfHOGa%25252FIRB%2525252BWomen%2525252BSevens%2525252BWorld%2525252BSeries%25252F6bpSKWOAI-N%25252FEkaterina%2525252BKazakova&source=iu&pf=m&fir=ahl72rN8_eFeXM%253A%252CEfuEHHywr1tHDM%252C_&usg=__7SJxqyHk-g3KLxfcc-6R3WQw-Y4%3D&ved=0CCcQyjc&ei=eaE1VYS3IIWymAWF74CwBA#imgrc=LTC4dQLrYPP2XM%253A%3Bp-OcYBWrk6y8hM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ffotos.areah.com.br%252Fimages%252Ffotos%252Fmh_interna_galeria_ekaterina%252520kazakova%2525202%252520-%252520facebook.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.areah.com.br%252Fgaleria%252Fentretenimento%252Fgaleria%252F92003%252F2%252Fpagina_0%252Fekaterina-kazakova.aspx%3B411%3B621
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 20, 2015, 07:08:31 PM
Russians killed Chechen Freedom Fighter and Challenger to Razman Kadyrov: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/21/world/europe/aliaskhab-kebekov-reported-killed-russia.html?_r=0

a middle aged teenager and Russian Troll @Rogozin claims Norwegian Island for Russia:  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32380101

An optimistic looks at the war never mind the dead bodies:  http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/world-report/2015/04/17/ukraine-crisis-is-a-geopolitical-game-changer-that-weakens-russia#

Anatoliy Gerej and Anastasia Ivchenko – winners of the Championship of Ukraine on fencing on swords
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 21, 2015, 02:49:54 PM
According to Prime Minister Medvedev, the sanctions will cost the Russian economy more than US$100 billion.
 
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/21/news/economy/russia-ukraine-sanctions-price/ (http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/21/news/economy/russia-ukraine-sanctions-price/)
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 21, 2015, 03:19:20 PM
At best that is 5% of their economy.  They trade more with the Europeans and the sanctions have affected them as well particularly Finland.  If the truce holds, I hate to say it but I can see them lifting their sanctions off set by moving troops closer to the Russian border
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 21, 2015, 10:31:29 PM
Russia's Ghost Army in Ukraine, Part III  Vice News

http://news.vice.com/video/russias-ghost-army-in-ukraine-part-3
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 22, 2015, 01:30:52 PM
Sanctions inflicted damage worth of 25 billion euros to the Russian Federation. It can grow by several times in 2015 - Russian PM


The damage inflicted to the Russian economy by the sanctions could grow by several times in 2015.


Russia's Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said, "I'm not going to specify what kind of sanctions we have been living under for almost a year. But there is almost no sector of the economy which they had not hurt. Starting from the financial sector which was impacted by the restrictions on access to foreign loans and ending with the import of technologies," Medvedev said, speaking at the State Duma with a report on the activities of the government.

"The damage from the restrictions imposed against our economy is significant and let's not conceal it. According to some foreign experts, Russia has suffered damage worth of 25 billion euros (1.5% of GDP). It can increase by several times in 2015," the prime minister said.

http://en.censor.net.ua/news/333489/sanctions_inflicted_damage_worth_of_25_billion_euros_to_the_russian_federation_it_can_grow_by_several

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 22, 2015, 01:41:18 PM

Militants booby-trap body of Azov soldier violating basis of international humanitarian laws – ATO HQ

Separatist militants booby-trapped the body of a Georgian volunteer who served with Azov battalion in Shyrokyne, near Mariupol, which violates the fundamental basis of international humanitarian laws, the press service of the anti-terrorist operation (ATO) headquarters has reported.

"Criminals took the shoes and individual protective gear off the victim. After that the body was booby-trapped to kill the soldiers who would come to take their fallen comrade from the battlefield. Only aid from OSCE SMM inspectors, who removed the mines from the body, helped to avoid additional victims.
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/261712.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on April 22, 2015, 02:10:25 PM
Did the crowd do the 'putin huilo' chant?

There were some anti Putin jeers from the crowd but mainly they were chanting the fighters name.
Usyk is originally from Crimea and remains in his hometown of Simferopol while refusing to take Russian citizenship.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 22, 2015, 04:19:54 PM
I'm surprised I didn't see some of you guys salivating over the EU's antitrust charges against Gazprom.  Could be a big hurt for Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 22, 2015, 05:35:50 PM
I'm surprised I didn't see some of you guys salivating over the EU's antitrust charges against Gazprom.  Could be a big hurt for Russia.

 We're waiting until after the court nails them for this, stealing Krym as well as the war crimes.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 22, 2015, 06:21:55 PM
They have 3 months to respond
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 22, 2015, 06:35:36 PM
We're waiting until after the court nails them for this, stealing Krym as well as the war crimes.


I suspect if they filed they have a lot of evidence to back their claims.


Google has been battling EU antitrust claims as well.  From what I have read, they have a solid case and imagine Gazprom is in for a big fight as well.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on April 22, 2015, 08:05:16 PM
Quote
A surface-to-air missile crashed shortly after being launched in northern Russia on Wednesday, Russian news agencies said, in a failed test that will be seen as an embarrassment for the country's military forces.

http://news.yahoo.com/rocket-crashes-launch-northern-russia-004020572.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-wants-build-supercarrier-total-191300008.html

Quote
"Russia’s plan to build a supercarrier, if pursued, will likely involve tremendous expenses to retrofit Russia’s navy and foreign policy with a ship that serves no strategic purpose,"

after Russia actually builds the ship, it would have to invest heavily in the development of overseas ports in willing partner countries, which Russia is currently lacking, for the ship to have any strategic value.

Peter the Great he is not . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 23, 2015, 03:25:00 PM
Piece by piece the chickens are trying to roost.Despite the Kremlins best efforts to silence any critics dissatisfaction is leaking out .

Unpaid Russian Workers Unite in Protest Against Putin

 Workers across Russia are starting to protest against unpaid wages and go on strike, in the first nationwide backlash against Mr. Putin's economic policies.


MOSCOW — In the far east, the teachers went on strike. In central Russia, it was the employees of a metallurgical plant. In St. Petersburg, autoworkers laid down their tools. And at a remote construction site in Siberia, laborers painted their complaints in gigantic white letters on the roofs of their dormitories.

“Dear Putin, V.V.,” the message said. “Four months without pay.”

After months of frustration with an economy sagging under the weight of international sanctions and falling energy prices, workers across Russia are starting to protest unpaid wages and go on strike, in the first nationwide backlash against President Vladimir V. Putin’s economic policies.
Unpaid wages, or wage arrears, an old scourge in Russia, rose on April 1 to 2.9 billion rubles, or about $56 million, according to the Russian statistical service. That is a 15 percent increase over a year earlier, but experts say that still does not capture the scope of the diminished pay of workers involuntarily idled during the slowdown.

Discontent over unpaid wages was tamped down for a while by a surge in national pride after the annexation of Crimea from Ukraine a year ago, and by repeated messages on state television that the hardship was an unavoidable price to pay for standing up for Russia’s interests. The strikes, in any case, have not been widely publicized in the state news media.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/22/world/europe/russian-workers-take-aim-at-putin-as-economy-exacts-its-toll.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=2
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 23, 2015, 06:18:17 PM
Piece by piece the chickens are trying to roost.Despite the Kremlins best efforts to silence any critics dissatisfaction is leaking out .

Unpaid Russian Workers Unite in Protest Against Putin

 Workers across Russia are starting to protest against unpaid wages and go on strike, in the first nationwide backlash against Mr. Putin's economic policies...

JayH, this was posted here a couple of days ago.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 23, 2015, 10:28:35 PM
Russia Robs graves to feed the state treasury! That's SICK!  :rolleyes:

In all want to dig up old graves and found treasures to send to the state treasury


Experts have counted tens of millions of neglected graves throughout.

In Russia wants to amend the legislation on the graves  In Russia planned to dig up all the old abandoned graves, ashes to offer direct cremation and found jewelry will go to the state treasury.

Such innovations stated in the draft law "On the funeral business in and amending certain laws" that paved the Ministry of Construction and Housing, write " Izvestia ".

It is in this project and offer direct state ownership found in jewelry during the planned mass cremation of the remains of the abandoned graves.

http://tsn.ua/groshi/u-rosiyi-hochut-rozkopati-vsi-stari-mogili-a-znaydeni-koshtovnosti-napraviti-do-derzhskarbnici-423151.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 24, 2015, 12:38:51 AM

Poland to bolster Ukraine's army if Russia war escalates

Poland's foreign minister Grzegorz Schetyna said on Thursday that Poland, along with other countries, may support Ukraine's defense capacities if the conflict in eastern Ukraine escalates.

Grzegorz Schetyna, Polish Foreign Minister: "We cannot exclude that in case of renewed escalation of military actions, we will be forced, along with other countries that assess the situation similarly to us, to take a decision on stronger support for the Ukrainian state, including its defense capacities."

http://uatoday.tv/politics/poland-to-bolster-ukraine-s-army-if-russia-war-escalates-423221.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 25, 2015, 11:21:37 AM
20 questions for those who back Putin’s aggression in Ukraine

Viktor Kadochnikov, a Russian blogger, poses 20 questions that he suggests those who support Vladimir Putin’s aggression in Ukraine should be asking themselves. If they do and if they are honest, they won’t be able to support the Kremlin leader’s policies any more.

http://euromaidanpress.com/201...gression-in-ukraine/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 25, 2015, 10:34:49 PM
20 questions for those who back Putin’s aggression in Ukraine

Viktor Kadochnikov, a Russian blogger, poses 20 questions that he suggests those who support Vladimir Putin’s aggression in Ukraine should be asking themselves. If they do and if they are honest, they won’t be able to support the Kremlin leader’s policies any more.

http://euromaidanpress.com/201...gression-in-ukraine/

That link doesn't work - try this one instead:

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/04/25/20-questions-for-those-who-back-putins-aggression-in-ukraine/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2015, 09:57:09 AM
Thanks for the  link fix AK.  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 26, 2015, 10:31:32 AM
Geeze, Mike, Kiwi,

I talk to Russians all of the time who can think for themselves.  They don't need twenty such questions. 

As we have seen from various people who post here, anyone can self delude to a position that nothing anyone says will ruin their perception of the world.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2015, 11:15:53 AM
That was for those few w/o  oatmeal between their ears.


Anyone seriously thinking Putin's Russian Federation is not USSR V 2.0?

 A Victory Day billboard in Russia with a fake Churchill quote praising Stalin:
 "I get up in the morning and pray that Stalin may remain alive and healthy.
 Only Stalin can save the world" - Winston Churchill (1943)


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 26, 2015, 11:27:32 AM
Quote
Anyone seriously thinking Putin's Russian Federation is not USSR V 2.0?


Not even close.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 27, 2015, 12:34:48 AM
The 30 Millimeter Solution: Army Upgunning Strykers Vs. Russia

(http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/04/Strykers-2CR-Romania.jpg)
Stryker vehicles from the Army’s 2nd Cavalry Regiment in Romania.

..." Amidst rising anxieties over Russia, one of the last US combat units still based in Europe, the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, has asked for bigger guns. The House Armed Services Committee is already setting aside money for the urgent upgrade, which the Army staff officially approved yesterday in a memo obtained by Breaking Defense:"...

..."In brief, the 2nd Cavalry wants 81 of its eight-wheel-drive Stryker infantry carrier vehicles fitted with 30 millimeter automatic cannon. 30 mm is more than twice the caliber of the 12.7 mm machineguns those Strykers currently mount. It’s actually a bigger weapon than the notoriously destructive 25 mm chaingun on the much heavier M2 Bradley infantry carrier."...

A copy of the memo is attached to the full article here...

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/04/the-30-millimeter-solution-army-upgunning-strykers-vs-russia/

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 27, 2015, 06:34:23 PM
Cant help telling his lies-- loss is more like 4 times that amount and likely to be greater this year.It seems nothing( except military defeat) is going to alter Russia's stupidity.

Russia because of sanctions has lost $ 160 billion - Putin

Глава РФ рассказал о последствиях
Из-за санкций и падений цены на нефть экономика РФ недосчиталась 160 млрд долларов. Об этом сегодня заявил российский президент Владимир Путин.
"Вот смотрите, у нас общий объем поступления иностранной валюты в нашу экономику в год составлял примерно 500 миллиардов долларов – 497, скажем, 500. После падения цен со 100 долларов за баррель до 50 в нашу экономику не пришло 160 миллиардов из 500 – большая цифра", – заявил Путин.

http://www.segodnya.ua/world/rossiya-iz-za-sankciy-poteryala-160-mlrd-dollarov-putin-611502.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 27, 2015, 07:40:33 PM
Is Ukraine Conflict a Victory or Defeat for Russia?

To paraphrase a famous expression, "Be careful what you complain about — or you might end up with something to really complain about."

Moscow officials have long complained that the international community did not give Russia the attention it deserved. "Those insidious Westerners ignore Russia's wonderful foreign policy initiatives," they grumbled, "because they are unable to come up with anything half as brilliant themselves."

But all of that changed almost overnight. Now Russia is once again firmly in the limelight — right alongside Ebola and the Islamic State.

For the rest of this interesting article..

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/is-ukraine-conflict-a-victory-or-defeat-for-russia/519851.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2015, 01:39:32 AM
No doubt about it--Russians are definately short of being genuis!!
The driver is between life and death at the moment I am writing these lines. He happened to be a famous local soccer player, Andrey Eshchenko, Speed zone is 50KMH and estimated speed over 170KMH-- course-- being drunk he probably hardly noticed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8j1vhUFpJU

Russian footballer Andrey Yeshchenko has amazingly escaped unhurt after obliterating a power pole in a 170kmh car crash caught on CCTV.

Yeschchenko, who played for Russian in last year's Football World Cup in Brazil, was captured on camera speeding along a 50kmh stretch of road at more than three times the speed limit when he lost control of his high powered Nissan GT-R.

The remarkable footage shows the car fly past a fixed camera before ploughing straight through the power pole which, along with his vehicle, was destroyed on impact.

Yeshchenko, who plays for Russian premier league team Kuban Krasdnodar, reportedly escaped from the crash uninjured.

The club has refused to discuss the accident, which occurred on a two lane divided carriageway, amid rumours that Yeshchenko was drunk while behind the wheel

. Thankfully, the 31-year-old hit the pole rather than veering across the median strip into oncoming traffic
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 30, 2015, 02:54:26 AM
No doubt about it--Russians are definately short of being genuis!!
The driver is between life and death at the moment I am writing these lines. He happened to be a famous local soccer player, Andrey Eshchenko, Speed zone is 50KMH and estimated speed over 170KMH-- course-- being drunk he probably hardly noticed.


Hmm...  You say he is between life and death yet the article states he was unhurt. 

Quote
Russian footballer Andrey Yeshchenko has amazingly escaped unhurt after obliterating a power pole in a 170kmh car crash caught on CCTV.


I haven't seen an article state he was drunk.  I can't say you getting the facts wrong is surprising.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2015, 04:35:14 AM

I haven't seen an article state he was drunk.  I can't say you getting the facts wrong is surprising.
Given your propensity to get it all wrong it is hardly a surprise that you mouth off before making the most rudimentary check.In your haste to troll me (again) you will see you will be proven wrong on each and every point!! :)
In case you dont get it-- an out of control drunken Russian with zero common sense or care for anyone else-result-he nearly kills himself.
SPORT
Russian football star Andrey Yeshchenko smashes Nissan GTR into pole at 170km/h
THE DAILY TELEGRAPH APRIL 30, 2015 5:49AM
 
The moment Andrey Yeshchenko's car collided with a pole at 170km/h.The moment Andrey Yeshchenko's car collided with a pole at 170km/h.
Russian footballer Andrey Yeshchenko sur...The moment Andrey Yeshchenko's car colli...
CCTV footage has captured the moment Russian football star Andrey Yeshchenko smashes his Nissan GTR into a pole at 170km/h.

Yeshchenko was part of Russia’s World Cup squad in 2014, and he is currently on loan to FC Kuban.

Reports suggest Yeshchenko may have consumed alcohol at the time of the accident, Kuban have not commented.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/football/russian-football-star-andrey-yeshchenko-smashes-nissan-gtr-into-pole-at-170kmh/story-fni2fopz-1227327704653

A mad video is doing the rounds in Russian football circles this week featuring Anzhi Makhachkala’s Andrey Yeshchenko, who is currently on loan at Kuban Krasnodar.

The 31-year-old left back was part of Russia’s 2014 World Cup squad.

Yeshchenko was recently caught on CCTV footage crashing his Nissan GTR into a pole whilst driving at 105 miles per hour.

Rumours are going around that Yeshchenko may have been drunk at the time of the accident, while Kuban are refusing to talk to the press about what happened.

Watch the scary CCTV footage below.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/shocking-russian-footballer-andrey-yeshchenko-filmed-crashing-pole-105-miles-hour-video/

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2015, 04:46:44 AM

Hmm...  You say he is between life and death yet the article states he was unhurt. 



They are actually not my words-they were taken from report( fwiw)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Hammer2722 on April 30, 2015, 07:36:45 AM
They are actually not my words-they were taken from report( fwiw)
You'll have to forgive his inability to comprehend what he reads...... ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on April 30, 2015, 08:26:41 AM
Yeshchenko is a Ukrainian surname.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on April 30, 2015, 08:58:13 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/30/kim-jong-un-cancels-moscow-trip_n_7179522.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Must be embarrassing for botox midget Putin when even Lil' Kim from North Korea snubs his upcoming fancy parade.  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 30, 2015, 09:11:46 AM
lmao!  :clapping: Putin's going to be like the little girl that's all dressed up for the prom and no one is coming for her.  :clapping:

 Even the last commie standing won't be seen with Huliomeister.  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 30, 2015, 11:02:11 AM
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 30, 2015, 11:24:48 AM
Given your propensity to get it all wrong it is hardly a surprise that you mouth off before making the most rudimentary check.In your haste to troll me (again) you will see you will be proven wrong on each and every point!! :)
In case you dont get it-- an out of control drunken Russian with zero common sense or care for anyone else-result-he nearly kills himself.


While it doesn't surprise me in the least you would take rumors as facts, many of us rather know whether it is truth or not before jumping to conclusions. 

Did the article say Russians are genius?  Next time, supply a link so we can take out the garbage you write and read the article itself.   :D    I am also curious if the article said he was between life and death while saying he was unhurt.  Care to share the link so I can see?


Not everyone can be as smart as you Aussies. ;) 



http://youtu.be/tw_LPPKrvTo
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on April 30, 2015, 11:25:28 AM
Yeshchenko is a Ukrainian surname.


Bo, the details don't matter to these guys.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 30, 2015, 06:04:25 PM
Yeshchenko is a Ukrainian surname.

Right but that doesn't mean that HE'S Ukrainian. He may have a russian passport.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2015, 06:46:06 PM

Bo, the details don't matter to these guys.  ;)
Given you propensity to swallow Kremlin lies and repeat them that really is laughable from you.
Looks like he is Russian by any definition-- and his idiotic behaviour illustrates it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andrey Yeshchenko
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This name uses Eastern Slavic naming customs; the patronymic is Olegovich and the family name is Yeshchenko.
Andrey Yeshchenko
Andrey Yeshchenko 2014 Russia.jpg
With Russia in 2014
Personal information
Full name   Andrey Olegovich Yeshchenko
Date of birth   9 February 1984 (age 31)
Place of birth   Irkutsk, Soviet Union
Height   1.76 m (5 ft 9 in)
Playing position   Left Back
Club information
Current team
Kuban Krasnodar
(loan from Anzhi Makhachkala)
   Apps†   (Gls)†
2003–2004   Zvezda Irkutsk   41   (2)
2005–2006   FC Khimki   34   (2)
20
‡ National team caps and goals correct as of 6 June 2014
Andrey Olegovich Yeshchenko (Russian: Андрей Олегович Ещенко; born 9 February 1984) is a professional Russian football player who plays as a defender for Kuban Krasnodar on loan from Anzhi Makhachkala.[1]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 30, 2015, 10:54:27 PM

15.09.14 10:37
 Another Russian soldier "lost" for good in Ukraine. PHOTO

One more "Cargo-200" (body of a killed soldier – ed.) arrived to Kasimov, a town in the Ryazan region: junior sergeant Vladislav Barakov irrevocably "lost" in the Eastern Ukraine.


This was announced by blogger ixteac7 in his Livejournal post, Censor.NET reports.

Junior sergeant Barakov Vladislav Aleksanrovich

Town: Kasimov, Ryazan region, Russian Federation

Military Unit/Base 54096 - 6th separate Chenstohovskaya Krasnoznamennaya tank brigade.

Is a part of the 20th combined arms army with the headquarters in Mulino
http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/302684/another_russian_soldier_lost_for_good_in_ukraine_photo
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on May 01, 2015, 04:55:43 AM
    Russian President Vladimir Putin has made no secret of his intention to destroy the country, 
     
Where and when did he say that?[/list]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2015, 09:40:05 AM
Where and when did he say that?

PAY ATTENTION or re-read the article.

It was right after "Its new western-leaning government has struggled to maintain sovereignty as well as stability.

 And before the part where they said," For those who are familiar with Putin’s regime, this is hardly surprising."

 Jeesh some people's children..  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2015, 11:51:04 AM
Russia: Massive Capital Flight Continues


Amid Russia's economic woes, billions of dollars continue to disappear in offshore havens. The net outflow of capital from Russia reached $32.6 billion during the first quarter of 2015, according to the nation's Central Bank.

The bank is now forecasting that capital flight may reach $131 billion by the end of the year. In reporting first quarter numbers, the Central Bank also upwardly revised the 2014 figure for net capital outflow to $154.1 billion from the previously reported $151.5 billion. That figure marks the highest annual total of capital flight since the Central Bank started tracking the trend back in 1994. Analysts predict capital flight will not stabilize anytime soon. "Capital outflow can only be stopped if the general population and businesses' confidence in Russia's stability is regained,"

Another sign that the Russian economy is being starved of capital is the sharp increase in bankruptcies. According to CMASF, the overall number of bankruptcies in the first quarter of 2015 reached levels last seen during the previous crisis in 2008-2009.



http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-massive-capital-flight-continues/520112.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2015, 12:01:12 PM
Graft Has Cost Russia's Defense Ministry 7 Billion Rubles

Russia's Defense Ministry has been plagued by numerous corruption scandals in recent years.

Corruption has cost the Defense Ministry more than 7 billion rubles ($135 million), Prosecutor General Yury Chaika said in a report prepared for the Federation Council, Interfax reported Tuesday. 

"Military prosecutors have identified 1,896 corruption-related crimes. These include misappropriations, embezzlements, frauds and forgeries. The accumulated damage has surpassed 7 billion rubles," according to Chaika's report, entitled "On the State of Lawfulness in the Country."

Hundreds of people have been charged in connection with these crimes, including 257 officers, 154 of them senior ones, the report saidhttp://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/graft-has-cost-russias-defense-ministry-7-billion-rubles/519965.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on May 01, 2015, 01:53:10 PM
Russia: Massive Capital Flight Continues


Amid Russia's economic woes, billions of dollars continue to disappear in offshore havens. The net outflow of capital from Russia reached $32.6 billion during the first quarter of 2015, according to the nation's Central Bank.

The bank is now forecasting that capital flight may reach $131 billion by the end of the year. In reporting first quarter numbers, the Central Bank also upwardly revised the 2014 figure for net capital outflow to $154.1 billion from the previously reported $151.5 billion. That figure marks the highest annual total of capital flight since the Central Bank started tracking the trend back in 1994. Analysts predict capital flight will not stabilize anytime soon. "Capital outflow can only be stopped if the general population and businesses' confidence in Russia's stability is regained,"

Another sign that the Russian economy is being starved of capital is the sharp increase in bankruptcies. According to CMASF, the overall number of bankruptcies in the first quarter of 2015 reached levels last seen during the previous crisis in 2008-2009.



http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-massive-capital-flight-continues/520112.html

Good article Mike.  The question now is, will the war hawks and Putin win and take further land from Ukraine with escalating military action, or will the Medvedev faction or another faction get control of Russia?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on May 01, 2015, 02:43:38 PM
PAY ATTENTION or re-read the article.

It was right after "Its new western-leaning government has struggled to maintain sovereignty as well as stability.

 And before the part where they said," For those who are familiar with Putin’s regime, this is hardly surprising."

 Jeesh some people's children..  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


It's not an article it's a blog, with all the authority and credibility that comes with it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on May 01, 2015, 02:45:43 PM
Quote
PAY ATTENTION or re-read the article.
Don'r want to/
Where and when did Purin say that?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 01, 2015, 02:57:47 PM

It's not an article it's a blog, with all the authority and credibility that comes with it.

It's not a blog, it is an op-ed piece in a business magazine.  The author has a blog, but the Forbes piece is not on his blog, as far as I can tell.
 
The author used the word "intention".  That implies action rather than words.  So, Putin need not state anything.  His intent can be surmised by the actions he has undertaken.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TomT on May 01, 2015, 05:36:20 PM
Hmm...  You say he is between life and death yet the article states he was unhurt. 


There is nothing wrong with your reading comprehension. Unfortunately for Jay, the edit window had closed and he didn't have the opportunity to edit his disinformation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Slumba on May 02, 2015, 12:03:40 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-23/putin-s-miracle-dissolves-as-russian-middle-class-faces-crunch

The Russian middle class is set to contract a great deal.  Right now, according to the above article, 40% are middle class - this may shrink to 20% in the future.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 05, 2015, 06:48:13 PM
Poor Russkies lost to the Yanks in ice hockey and in typical Russian fashion immediately started to look for excuses...

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2015/5/5/8551967/russia-vs-usa-score-aftermath-iihf-world-championships-hockey

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on May 13, 2015, 11:57:05 AM
(http://s015.radikal.ru/i330/1505/19/d895cc2623f7.jpg)

(http://tv.ren.cdnvideo.ru/sites/default/files/news/11231705_10206875470274974_2113861204724420461_n.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on May 13, 2015, 12:05:12 PM
(http://www.epa.eu/thumb.php/51929999.jpg?eJwljLEOwjAMRP_l5gx2lbS1105ItEgECZhQIGk3BkonxL9jBS9P907nDwYo4DBcoGy4VowmA0sjdlbud9DGMJkuz-W2rclsrDLaA28Y6zCeoO_XVhzO__oI7YkcDhbBnkIrSXgmCvccHjKnjtrSc5ez54LvDzVkIiA~)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on May 16, 2015, 11:42:09 AM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFIJaUGWoAE-miX.jpg)


 :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on May 16, 2015, 12:00:07 PM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFIJaUGWoAE-miX.jpg)

You funny lady.  It's better than a $100 with Obama's mug on it, that's for sure.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on May 16, 2015, 02:28:12 PM
Sorry for Russian but you can translate.





Quote
Не новое вооружение, не демонстрация мощи и прочее...

Они думали, что война с Россией будет только лишь войной с ее руководством и Армией.

Но вдруг увидели, что придется воевать со ВСЕМ РУССКИМ НАРОДОМ, который скорее согласится перемолоть себя в мясо, нежели даст себя победить.

Вот что их так потрясло...
Что Война им обойдется слишком дорого.
И одним решающим ядерным ударом им ее не завершить.
Придется добивать каждого из нас. Каждого, кто вышел на Бессмертный полк или был там сердцем.

Не обольщайтесь Меркеле, Керри, переговорам... Они сейчас спешно меняют стратегию. Ищут новую.
Они в расстерянности - это мягко сказано. Знаете, что такое менять стратегию в уже начавшейся войне? Почти то же самое, что на марше... не важно, в общем.

И придумают они что-то совершенно чудовищное. Потому что речь идет о самом их существовании. Не Керри, конечно, а его работодатели. К сша имеющие отношение опосредованное.

Но время перед решающим ударом мы выиграли.
А он будет.

И еще.
Против нас во Вторую мировую войну воевала ВСЯ Европа.
Миф о воине-освободителе действительно миф... но не потому, что Сталин их поработил, а потому, что Сталин их не овобождал.
От самих себя не освободишь.
Черного кобеля не отмоешь до бела.

Европа нам никогда не была и не будет союзником. Даже не думайте верить в эту дипломатически-журналисткую сказку.

Но главное, то, о чем сказано в начале - ОНИ ПОНЯЛИ, ЧТО ВОЕВАТЬ ПРИДЕТСЯ С КАЖДЫМ ИЗ НАС.

ПРИ-ДЁТ-СЯ...

Время еще есть.

Храни Бог Государя, воинов и страну!
Аминь!


See- you laughed at me when I said Russians would rather eat dirt but not surrender? Here he said even better- Russians would rather let mince them into ground meat but they will never yield.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 16, 2015, 05:29:39 PM
Russian better learn to eat dirt using chopsticks, the cutlery of choice of your Chinese masters...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on May 16, 2015, 06:42:48 PM
To be fair Doll, we laugh at you a lot for many reasons independent of your great Motherland.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on May 16, 2015, 07:05:35 PM
To be fair Doll, we laugh at you a lot for many reasons independent of your great Motherland.
I don't care.
You "laugh" at something notAmericanwayofdoing\speaking like all  American consider it weird.
Plus you would never do t in person because you all fear
 :blowkiss:
BTW, congratulations on loosing semi final in hockey (to Russia of course)
(http://cdn1.img.sputniknews.com/images/102222/64/1022226452.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 16, 2015, 07:13:49 PM
Doll, aren't you going to congratulate huilo for scoring eight amazing goals?
 :applause:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on May 16, 2015, 07:22:23 PM

 :blowkiss:
BTW, congratulations on loosing semi final in hockey (to Russia of course)
(http://cdn1.img.sputniknews.com/images/102222/64/1022226452.jpg)


I don't care.

& OBTW, Houston is playing the Clippers tomorrow.  I don't care about that either.

I don't care.
You "laugh" at something notAmericanwayofdoing\speaking like all  American consider it weird.
Plus you would never do t in person because you all fear

Whatever floats your boat Toots.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on May 16, 2015, 07:31:51 PM
sure

 (http://cdn2.img22.ria.ru/images/106491/92/1064919248.jpg)


(http://stfond.ru/images/load/Image/Putin2_35.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on May 16, 2015, 09:00:11 PM
I will pray for you.

(http://islam.ru/en/sites/default/files/img/news/2014/09/6F1FD9A8-9B2E-4C21-84FB-F83B0C7F53E2_cx0_cy7_cw0_mw1024_s_n.jpg)

Long live our great motherland, Russia! Long live our national leader, Vladimir Putin! Allahu Akbar!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UqfPoED0QM
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 17, 2015, 04:10:26 PM
(http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2015/05/540793807.jpg?w=620&h=465)



(http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2015/05/540793951.jpg?w=620)




Perhaps the Russians should have considered adding 8 goal scorer Putin to the team roster.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Изумруд on May 17, 2015, 05:10:47 PM
The geo-location techniques used in these videos are excellent; actually going to Donbass to check if the locations are real, more so.  The Kremlin has been caught out lying again.  The pathetic Ukrainian jet image shown on Russian TV was so bad it was debunked by Russians.  Now, they've been caught out lying about the 'Ukrainian' BUK system; the evidence is mounting and they're running out of stories to make up:

 http://uk.businessinsider.com/r-fragment-from-mh17-crash-site-supports-missile-theory-dutch-tv-2015-3#ixzz3ZgBpExTZ

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/videoindex.aspx?uuid=4241065046001 (http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/videoindex.aspx?uuid=4241065046001)

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/videoindex.aspx?uuid=4241065046001 (http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/videoindex.aspx?uuid=4241065046001)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on May 17, 2015, 05:27:53 PM
Perhaps the Russians should have considered adding 8 goal scorer Putin to the team roster.
Maybe bare-chested horse riders are not allowed on the Western hockey rinks ;D?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 17, 2015, 05:31:56 PM

Perhaps the Russians should have considered adding 8 goal scorer Putin to the team roster.

Did huilo attend this game? As the score became increasing embarrassing, the close-up shots of his face would have been priceless...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on May 17, 2015, 05:32:21 PM
Perhaps the Russians should have considered adding 8 goal scorer Putin to the team roster.

When the score was 5 to 0 the NBC announcer said the only chance the Russians have now is to send in Putin. ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on May 17, 2015, 05:57:27 PM
When the score was 5 to 0 the NBC announcer said the only chance the Russians have now is to send in Putin. ;D
Hahaaaaaaaa on tank!
(http://kvedomosti.com/uploads/posts/2014-03/1395327144_1545824_586042884825386_184070269_n_1395324645.png)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on May 17, 2015, 07:26:55 PM
Russian exports

(http://russianmafiatattoos.com/images/russian-mafia-tattoos-24.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 18, 2015, 12:00:46 PM
Quote
Even with the Kremlin's revised budget plan in April . . . Russia is spending more on its military than it can afford to, according to Russian economist and former rector of the New Economic School in Moscow Sergei Guriev (http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/russia-military-spending-by-sergei-guriev-2015-05).


. . . "Russia has already spent more than half of its total military budget for 2015. At this rate, its reserve fund will be emptied before the end of the year," Guriev writes. (http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/russia-military-spending-by-sergei-guriev-2015-05)

In the best case scenario, according to Guriev, "Russia can maintain a 3.7% deficit for less than two years before it either has to withdraw from Ukraine to gain relief from Western sanctions, or undertake a major — and for Putin, politically dangerous — fiscal adjustment." . . .

"Russia simply cannot sustain the allocation of such a large share of its budget to defense spending. Moreover, its defense industry lacks the capacity to produce modern equipment as quickly as the plan anticipated,” he adds.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-economist-kremlins-military-spending-152546502.html (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-economist-kremlins-military-spending-152546502.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on May 18, 2015, 12:12:06 PM
Did huilo attend this game? As the score became increasing embarrassing, the close-up shots of his face would have been priceless...

Hockey fans, and those interested in how soviet politics affected the lives of Soviet hockey players, who played in the NHL, see this movie. It's great. Documentary style:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_%28film%29
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 18, 2015, 07:24:32 PM
Obviously not a good weekend for the midget president.
First his side got humiliated by the Canadians in hockey, then 2 of his troops got captured alive and couldn't keep their mouth shut.
Hope he finds consolation in scoring those 8 magnificent goals.
 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on May 18, 2015, 07:57:24 PM
Obviously not a good weekend for the midget president.
First his side got humiliated by the Canadians in hockey, then 2 of his troops got captured alive and couldn't keep their mouth shut.
Hope he finds consolation in scoring those 8 magnificent goals.
 :ROFL:


He's got much bigger things to worry about than some stupid hockey game. Being a Detroit Lions fan I understand the situation completely. It is soon forgotten.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on May 18, 2015, 08:06:52 PM

He's got much bigger things to worry about than some stupid hockey game.

Yet Adolph Hitler, despite being busy planning the gobbling up of Europe, was reportedly quite annoyed that Jesse Owens beat so many German track and field athletes at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Dictators often tend to place great store in their countries' athletes beating the athletes of competing countries. Like Putin at the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on May 18, 2015, 08:12:44 PM
Yet Adolph Hitler, despite being busy planning the gobbling up of Europe, was reportedly quite annoyed that Jesse Owens beat so many German track and field athletes at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Dictators often tend to place great store in their countries' athletes beating the athletes of competing countries. Like Putin at the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics.


Hitler was a special case and sports is great PR but when it doesn't go according to plan then lets forget about it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on May 18, 2015, 08:15:00 PM

Hitler was a special case and sports is great PR but when it doesn't go according to plan then lets forget about it.

Putin is not a special case? 

In the absence of elections and other true sources of power, prestige goes a long way to these kind of people.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Steamer on May 18, 2015, 08:37:01 PM
Putin is not a special case? 

In the absence of elections and other true sources of power, prestige goes a long way to these kind of people.


Nope. When you lose a game it's best to forget about it. Move on.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on May 19, 2015, 06:28:42 AM

Nope. When you lose a game it's best to forget about it. Move on.


Tell that to Putler. Maybe he'll feel a bit better.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on May 19, 2015, 06:41:12 AM

Tell that to Putler. Maybe he'll feel a bit better.  ;)

Bingo
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 19, 2015, 09:17:03 PM
Apparently some unscrupulous people fired a mortar round into the Russian embassy in Syria...

http://news.yahoo.com/un-condemns-terrorist-attack-russian-embassy-syria-222639620.html

The irony is the mortar rounds used are probably originally manufactured in Putinland.  :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 20, 2015, 02:22:35 PM
Apparently some unscrupulous people fired a mortar round into the Russian embassy in Syria...

http://news.yahoo.com/un-condemns-terrorist-attack-russian-embassy-syria-222639620.html

The irony is the mortar rounds used are probably originally manufactured in Putinland.  :popcorn:

 Poetic Justice!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on May 22, 2015, 02:01:42 AM
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/news/article/russian-soldiers-captured-in-ukraine-feel-abandoned-by-moscow/522022.html

What a tear jerker!   Perhaps someone should inform them that their glorious comrade leader Putin claims that they are not there in the first place.  They should also be asked why they 'volunteered'  to fight for a military that invaded a sovereign, internationally recognized, nation.

Somehow, I expect Ukraine will allow these soldiers to eventually be accepted by Ukraine to assist in bringing Putin to the Hague for war crimes.

 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 22, 2015, 06:31:21 PM
A popular item at my house!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on May 22, 2015, 06:54:30 PM
What a tear jerker!

poor choice of words old boy
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 23, 2015, 11:10:19 PM
Russia,  :cluebat: the only country that would call a total FAIL and victory. LMAO

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-embarrassing-russian-military-failures-2015-5?op=1&utm_content=bufferee5e5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on May 23, 2015, 11:53:51 PM
A popular item at my house!

Mike,  Do you have any connections that I can contact for purchase of a few cases of this toilet paper?  It should sell well in the USA.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 24, 2015, 12:36:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrhlQu-jpnM
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on May 24, 2015, 01:32:22 AM
Good video, thanks for posting.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 24, 2015, 03:04:27 AM
Good video, thanks for posting.
Agreed.btw it is only about 28 mins and then repeats.
While it is a little dated on a few points--the big picture key points are raised--and the comments about
Putins mindset from those with inside understanding of him are the key to understanding what has and is really happening.
Some on the forums want to ignore this--and rationalise Putin and Russia's behaviour.

Right from the start I have advocated meeting this Russian threat with maximum force--it is the ONLY thing Putin will understand-- and the only way to start the process in Russia to get rid of Putin is to cause humiliation of the Russian armed invasion forces .

Sanctions are an inconvenience-as is the economy in a shambles- and not enough to create the drastic change in mindset needed in Russia itself to create the climate for change.
To continue doing nothing-- and appeasing Putin only serves to allow him to believe he holds all the aces in his gamble.

That mindset must be changed.

The world cannot desert Ukraine-or sell it down the drain( which is what I see happening politically now)--it is only going to make a much larger and maybe uncontrollable crisis later.


Moscow analyst: West caving in on Crimea, but Kyiv can get it back

"The West appears to have accepted the deal Vladimir Putin has been offering the last month, agreeing not to challenge Russia’s annexation of Crimea de facto in exchange for the Kremlin leader’s declaration that he will recognize the territorial integrity of the rest of Ukraine and not expand his campaign against Kyiv, according to Andrey Piontkovsky."
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/05/23/moscow-analyst-west-caving-in-on-crimea-but-kyiv-can-get-it-back/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 24, 2015, 03:10:57 AM
Meanwhile--it is getting harder for Putin to keep the lid on in Russia itself-

The Hasty Withdrawal of Russian Special Forces from Luhansk Linked to the Threat of Rebellion, According to the Source Close to the 3rd Spetsnaz Brigade

The details of failure, or

 

Upon arrival at home base, the troops returning from the “Ukrainian assignment” were quartered in separate barracks. Almost all cell phones and other electronic gadgets were taken from them. All attempts were taken to isolate them and prevent any contact with their comrades, family, and friends. On the same day, a group of representatives from the Russian Defense Ministry and people in plain clothes arrived in Tolyatti.

 

A wave of discontent and indignation arose among enlisted personnel and junior commissioned officers due to the fact that the State, in particular, the command of the Defense Ministry, gave up on their comrades. The greatest outrage was provoked by a statement that the captured in Ukraine servicemen were supposedly discharged before their assignment, and a campaign to discredit them by the Russian government began, involving members of their families.

http://en.informnapalm.org/russian-special-forces-from-luhansk/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 24, 2015, 11:06:39 AM
I am sensing that those living in the East are tired and just want life to return, which it never will because such is not possible. Even if war were to stop at this moment, it will take more than one generation for the people and the area to recover without some type of "Marshall Plan" by the West.

The other option is for Putin to rebuild as he did in Chechnya. However, Putin had a reason to rebuild Chechnya--he needed to resume life in an oil producing/pipeline region, and to prop up a stooge to keep order and to prevent not only Chechnya, but other regions from declaring independence. There is no economic incentive to rebuild those areas now in rebel control, and thus it will not likely for Putin to do the rebuilding, especially in light of Russia's worsening economic condition.

There never was the outpouring for pro-Russian support as with Crimea, and only the presence of Russian troops and leadership keeps the "rebels" active. If this drags on and Putin does not make an aggressive move soon to complete his drive southward, time will play out in Kyiv's favour.

The Chinese are not stupid--they are not jumping into bed with Russia for mere economic gains, also in play are infrastructure developments to someday address the Siberian question. The Chinese have been quiet on Crimea for this reason: If Crimea can be returned to Russia, then someday a very Asian-leaning Siberia and Far East can perhaps be returned to mother China.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on May 24, 2015, 12:07:45 PM

The Chinese are not stupid--they are not jumping into bed with Russia for mere economic gains, also in play are infrastructure developments to someday address the Siberian question. The Chinese have been quiet on Crimea for this reason: If Crimea can be returned to Russia, then someday a very Asian-leaning Siberia and Far East can perhaps be returned to mother China.


Bingo!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 24, 2015, 01:18:50 PM
I am sensing that those living in the East are tired and just want life to return, which it never will because such is not possible. Even if war were to stop at this moment, it will take more than one generation for the people and the area to recover without some type of "Marshall Plan" by the West.

The other option is for Putin to rebuild as he did in Chechnya. However, Putin had a reason to rebuild Chechnya--he needed to resume life in an oil producing/pipeline region, and to prop up a stooge to keep order and to prevent not only Chechnya, but other regions from declaring independence. There is no economic incentive to rebuild those areas now in rebel control, and thus it will not likely for Putin to do the rebuilding, especially in light of Russia's worsening economic condition.

There never was the outpouring for pro-Russian support as with Crimea, and only the presence of Russian troops and leadership keeps the "rebels" active. If this drags on and Putin does not make an aggressive move soon to complete his drive southward, time will play out in Kyiv's favour.

The Chinese are not stupid--they are not jumping into bed with Russia for mere economic gains, also in play are infrastructure developments to someday address the Siberian question. The Chinese have been quiet on Crimea for this reason: If Crimea can be returned to Russia, then someday a very Asian-leaning Siberia and Far East can perhaps be returned to mother China.

Yeah, Mendy.  What the Chinese affectionately call "The Northern Resource Area".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on May 24, 2015, 02:27:02 PM
I am not against a 50$ B Marshall Plan for Ukraine.  But why should we rebuild Lugansk & Donetsk?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AC on May 24, 2015, 02:42:57 PM
I am not against a 50$ B Marshall Plan for Ukraine.  But why should we rebuild Lugansk & Donetsk?

No, absolutely not.  Putin wanted it, let him pay for it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 24, 2015, 07:27:24 PM
Russians' Wages Fall at Fastest Pace Since 1999

A slump in Russian consumer spending deepened in April as real wages fell at their fastest pace in 16 years, data published Friday by state statistics service Rosstat showed.

With Russia's economy contracting and price inflation running at more than 16 percent, Rosstat said Russians' real wages fell by 13.2 percent in April compared to the same month in 2014 — far exceeding the 8.3 percent decline in the first quarter of this year. This was the biggest monthly drop since 1999, which was the year immediately following a full-blown and traumatic financial collapse.

Average real incomes, which measure not only wages but other private income and state payouts such as pensions, were 4 percent lower in April than a year earlier, according to Rosstat.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/522219.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: lordtiberius on May 24, 2015, 11:49:53 PM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a96a491c-ffcd-11e4-bc30-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3b89MpStl

IMF predicts upturn for Russian economy after 3.4% fall this year
Courtney Weaver in Moscow

Quote
High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a96a491c-ffcd-11e4-bc30-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz3b89kVnVP

The rouble has also rebounded in recent weeks. After weakening to as much as 80 roubles to the dollar last December, the currency has now recovered back to 50 roubles to the US dollar, and is continuing to strengthen.

Report the truth Mike not propaganda
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on May 25, 2015, 06:51:29 AM
No, absolutely not.  Putin wanted it, let him pay for it.

My fiancee, from Luhansk, says the same thing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 25, 2015, 10:03:17 AM
Talk's cheap

Russian deputy PM on sanctions: Tanks do not need visas

The war of words between the Kremlin and the West continues, with the latest jibe coming from Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, according to a report from Russian news agency RIA Novosti.

"Tanks do not need visas," Rogozin said on Russian TV Channel on Monday, commenting on Western sanctions and visa bans introduced in response to Russia’s illegal annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea and its destabilization of the east of the country.

Rogozin, who last month upset the Norwegian authorities by turning up unannounced on Norway’s Svalbard, is on a list of Russians banned from entering the European Union because of what the EU says was his direct involvement in destabilizing the situation in eastern Ukraine.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1081661-russian-deputy-pm-on-sanctions-tanks-do-not-need-visas.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 25, 2015, 05:49:49 PM
"Tanks do not need visas," Rogozin said on Russian TV Channel on Monday, commenting on Western sanctions and visa bans introduced in response to Russia’s illegal annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea and its destabilization of the east of the country.

Maybe not - but their crews might!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on May 27, 2015, 03:00:10 PM
Looks like the US has pulled the trigger. I got $5 on it that someone squeels while awaiting extradition.

www.local10.com/news/fbi-searching-south-florida-offices-linked-to-fifa-in-a-soccer-scandal/33238236 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/www.local10.com/news/fbi-searching-south-florida-offices-linked-to-fifa-in-a-soccer-scandal/33238236)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/six-soccer-officials-arrested-in-fifa-corruption-investigation-1432710956 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/six-soccer-officials-arrested-in-fifa-corruption-investigation-1432710956)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on May 27, 2015, 04:27:41 PM
Russia wants 1.163 billion euros from France for ending Mistral deal: source


..."Russia wants 1.163 billion euros ($1.32 billion) from France in compensation for cancelling a contract to deliver two Mistral helicopter carriers, a Russian source close to the negotiations said on Friday.

French President Francois Holland has come under pressure from his Western allies not to deliver the Mistrals because of Russia's role in the Ukraine crisis."...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/15/us-russia-france-mistrals-idUSKBN0O017P20150515

Good on the French for sticking to their guns. Further, they should not be compensating Russia on red cent, instead,  forward any funding to Ukraine as financial aid.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on May 28, 2015, 03:04:39 AM
From the Atlantic Council's Web Site - The full Atlantic Council' Report - Hiding-In-Plain-Sight-Putin's War in Ukraine.

PDF file link is at bottom of page.  Site appears to be under attack intermittently, however I was able to finally download the PDF report.


http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/publications/reports/hiding-in-plain-sight-putin-s-war-in-ukraine-and-boris-nemtsov-s-putin-war
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 02, 2015, 12:16:38 AM

This ought to offset the gas bill about 100 times over!! :)



compensation for the occupation of the Crimea.  ?

Such a step can be made in compensation for the occupation of the Crimea. ipress.ua Ukraine may present a claim to seize foreign assets of the Russian Federation through the occupation of Crimea Ukraine may push demand arrest of foreign property as compensation for losses due to occupation of the Crimea. Such a move will be made in case of a positive decision of the European Court of Human Rights.  This is in the air "5 channel" said First Deputy Justice Minister Natalia Sevostyanova.



Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/groshi/ukrayina-hoche-zaareshtuvati-zakordonne-mayno-rosiyi-430923.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 02, 2015, 06:24:23 PM
I wonder how the lawyers will get their 40% cut?  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on June 02, 2015, 08:23:08 PM
I was thinking the other day, Ukraine should send Putin a notice that since he broke the lease on the navy base, it is now on a month to month at $1 million per day.      ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on June 02, 2015, 08:42:05 PM
Now that huilo's buddy Sepp Blatter has been forced to resign as FIFA president and there is a possibility of Russia being stripped of hosting the next World Cup, let's hope Putin didn't soil his pants upon hearing this news... :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 02, 2015, 09:26:55 PM
Now that huilo's buddy Sepp Blatter has been forced to resign as FIFA president and there is a possibility of Russia being stripped of hosting the next World Cup, let's hope Putin didn't soil his pants upon hearing this news... :popcorn:

If FIFA  had an ounce of decency it would strip Russia of hosting World Cup --based on what sanctions ought to be doing ie isolate Russia-- and strip Qatar also--- in both cases the certainty of the corruption involved in them being awarded World Cups should be enough to disqualify them.
Thieves in bed together!!
FIFA has already been making noises that venues will not be changed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 04, 2015, 06:02:45 PM
Now that huilo's buddy Sepp Blatter has been forced to resign as FIFA president and there is a possibility of Russia being stripped of hosting the next World Cup, let's hope Putin didn't soil his pants upon hearing this news... :popcorn:

Hmm, woulda' made a good Headline...

FIFA voids it's Blatter and Putin soils himself

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 04, 2015, 06:27:27 PM
AP Interview: Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper says G-7 will never welcome back Putin

..."TORONTO (AP) — Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Thursday that Russia should never be allowed back in the Group of 7 as long as Vladimir Putin is president.

Harper said in an exclusive interview with The Associated Press that he expects the group won't ever let Putin back in."...

..."Harper said even long before the Ukraine crisis, Russia has eroded any basis for belonging to the group of wealthy nations."...

..."I don't think Russia under Vladimir Putin belongs in the G7. Period," Harper said. "Canada would very, very strongly oppose Putin ever sitting around that table again. It would require consensus to bring Russia back and that consensus will just not happen."...

..."Russia is more often than not trying deliberately to be a strategic rival, to deliberately counter the good things we're trying to achieve in the world than for no other reason than to just counter them," Harper said."...

..."Harper said the "mindset of the guy we are dealing with is that the Cold War has never ended and 'I've got to fight to change the ending somehow.'"...

..."I don't think there is any way under this leader Russia will ever change," Harper said."...

..."This is kind of typical Russian foreign policy to just say black is white even though everyone knows the contrary. I think as long as that's the view that they are going to take, that they're just going to treat us like we are all stupid, there really is no point in having a dialogue with them," Harper said."...

..."This is a country that has shown a willingness to invade its neighbors, to actually seize territory that does not belong to it, and so I don't think we should take this escalation of a hostile military posture lightly. It needs to be treated seriously," Harper said."...

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/06/04/ap-interview-canadas-harper-says-russia-cant-rejoin-g-7

Brass


















Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 05, 2015, 07:38:11 AM
EU Set to Roll Over Sanctions on Russia, Officials Say


Quote

BRUSSELS—The European Union is, in the coming weeks, looking to roll over its broad economic and targeted sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine crisis until late January, according to a number of senior officials and diplomats.


The continuation of the sanctions are part of an effort to maximize the bloc’s leverage in pushing the Kremlin to fully implement its side of the Minsk cease-fire agreement, the officials say.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-set-to-roll-over-sanctions-on-russia-officials-say-1433346645



OPEC Keeps Output Unchanged
Cartel takes no action amid global glut of crude


Quote

OPEC also began pondering what could be another shock to the oil market in the coming weeks: Iran’s plans to pour up to a million new barrels of oil on the global market in the event of a nuclear deal with the U.S., Europe, Russia and China.


Sanctions currently restrict Iran’s ability to sell oil, and have cut its exports to just over a million barrels a day. It remains unclear how much and how quickly Iran could ramp up production. Analysts expect Iran will produce less than it is promising, more in the range of 400,000 to 600,000 barrels a day of additional oil.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/opec-keeps-output-unchanged-1433504610
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 08, 2015, 12:40:51 AM
Matthew Fisher: Mere hours into the G7 summit, Stephen Harper may have already got what he wanted

(http://nationalpostcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/cda_g7_20150607.jpg?w=620)
Prime Minister Stephen Harper, left, jokes around with U.S. President Barack Obama and other leaders during a dinner at the G7 meeting in Germany on Sunday.

..."Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany — Prime Minister Stephen Harper may already get what he wanted most from the G7 summit only hours after the two-day meeting began Sunday in the Bavarian Alps.

The West’s two most powerful leaders, U.S. President Barack Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, agreed Sunday to continue supporting the isolation of Russian President Vladimir Putin through economic sanctions on his country unless he honours a peace deal he helped broker in Ukraine and agrees to respect that country’s territorial integrity."...

..."Worried that Europe’s resolve might crumble with the end of current EU sanctions this summer, Harper, had called many times over the past year for maintaining a strong, unified stance against what Obama has called Russia’s “aggression” in Ukraine. The prime minister did so again during a visit on Saturday to Kyiv, where his government announced additional non-lethal assistance for Ukraine’s badly overmatched security forces, which have recently faced a dramatic increase in artillery attacks in the eastern part of the country by Putin’s proxies.

Harper shared jokes and serious conversation with Obama, who was seated beside him, at a working dinner late Sunday that brought together the seven G7 summiteers."...

(http://nationalpostcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/476264346.jpg?w=620&h=413)
Stephen Harper and his wife Laureen speak with President Barack Obama at an evening concert prior the summit of G7 nations on Sunday.

nationalpost.com (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/matthew-fisher-mere-hours-into-the-g7-summit-stephen-harper-may-have-already-got-what-he-wanted)

Oddly enough the President and Prime Minister have been paling around at this G7 summit. They normally don't see eye to eye on much. Harper's been pushing for continued sanctions and it looks like he's got his way.

Hopefully there'll be discussion on arming Ukraine.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 08, 2015, 12:48:24 AM
The Kremlin is relying on the 'sanctions' imposed on the importation of EU produce to make nations like GR, CY - whose farmers are Christian Orthodox and 'upset' at being targetted - break ranks and refuse to prolong the EU's response to Crimea and SE Ukraine.

ALL 28 members need to be in accord to allow continuation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 08, 2015, 01:19:52 AM

European Council

Council of the European Union
 
Press statement by President Donald Tusk at the press conference before the G7 summit in Schloss Elmau, Germany

..." My intention is that today we re-confirm the G7 unity on the sanctions policy. So let me state clearly, given the current situation, if anyone wants to start a debate about changing the sanctions regime, the discussion could only be about strengthening it. The European Union, as the entire G7, continues to stand firm in support of Ukraine's territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence."...

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015/06/7-tusk-statement-g7-press-conference/

...I think they're in accord.

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 08, 2015, 12:07:51 PM
This is an interesting development...

US Weighs Missiles In Europe To Counter Russia

..."WASHINGTON — The United States is considering a range of moves to counter Russia's alleged violation of a nuclear arms treaty, including bolstering missile defenses or even deploying land-based missiles in Europe, officials said Friday."...

..."The options are expected to be discussed at a meeting of senior military officers and diplomats convened by Defense Secretary Ash Carter during a visit Friday to Stuttgart, Germany, Pentagon officials told AFP.

The talks will focus on Moscow's role in the Ukraine conflict as well as its suspected breach of the arms control agreement, with an array of potential counter measures to be laid out, officials said."...

..."Brian McKeon, deputy undersecretary of defense for policy, told lawmakers in December that the United States could consider putting ground-launched cruise missiles in Europe. Such weapons are banned under the INF treaty."...

defensenews.com (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/europe/2015/06/07/us-weighs-missiles-europe-counter-russia/28646435/)

The article states this option is at the far end of the spectrum but at least it's being considered.

Putin's already broken the INF treaty and threatened to deploy nucs one more than one occasion. US ground based missiles would effectively neutralize Putin's threats and diminish his ability to terrorize Russia's smaller neighbors.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 08, 2015, 12:52:54 PM
Coming in at number one for the servile adulator's misplaced faith in Putin's ability to rule the world...

The Mistral Ships Deal:

Russia now plans on building their own ships?...Riiiight, just go right ahead and do that. They should be ready for -oh, let's say, the 4th World War.

Russia to build its own carriers similar to France's Mistral-class vessels

..."The ongoing saga about the Mistral-class amphibious/helicopter carriers continues. Russian military industry officials now say Russia will build its own carriers to replace the ones that France is refusing to deliver because of the situation in Ukraine.

“We have these types of ships planned but we will build them a bit differently,” Oleg Bochkaryov, deputy chairman of the Russian Military Industrial Commission, recently told journalists. “We’re not going to blatantly copy the Mistral right out,” he added.

Russia and France are now negotiating the end of the deal between the two nations over the decision not to deliver the Mistral-class ships. Russia has said that France will have to return the money it paid for the ships."...

ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/russia-to-build-its-own-carriers-similar-to-frances-mistral-class-vessels)

The Russians won't copy the Mistral ships design because they have neither the capability or know how. That's why the French were building the ships for them in the first place.

France should forward any funds received from Russia's Mistral contract to Ukraine's government as partial compensation for war damage.

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 08, 2015, 01:44:18 PM
Coming in at number two on the obsequious Putin worshipper's list of deceptive claims...

Western/European nations have no stomach to continue with or extend sanctions against Russia:

Nothing could be further from the truth...

Obama lambasts Putin: you're wrecking Russia to recreate Soviet empire

..."Barack Obama has used the close of the G7 summit in Germany to deliver his strongest criticism yet of Vladimir Putin, lambasting the Russian president’s isolationist approach as the seven leaders signalled their readiness to tighten sanctions against Russia if the conflict in Ukraine escalates."...

..."The German chancellor stressed that while she hoped the situation in Ukraine would not worsen, the G7 leaders were prepared to implement tougher sanctions if it did."...

..."The European members of the G7 – Britain, Italy and France – said they would support the extension of the main EU sanctions when they meet later this month."...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/08/g7-leaders-sanctions-russia-ukraine-conflict-obama

EU likely to extend Russia sanctions over Ukraine - Hollande | Reuters

..."KRUEN, Germany French President Francois Hollande said it was likely that EU sanctions imposed on Russia over the conflict in Ukraine would be extended until the end of the year."...

www.firstpost.com (http://www.firstpost.com/world/eu-likely-to-extend-russia-sanctions-over-ukraine-hollande-reuters-2285778.html)

The sanctions will be extended and the Russian people/economy will continue to suffer all for the glory of Lilliputian Putin.

Wake up Russia. Time to depose and dispose of your despot. ;)

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on June 08, 2015, 05:14:23 PM
Apparently the midget is having some technical problems with his obsolete air force...  :popcorn:

http://www.ibtimes.com/russias-entire-tu-95-bear-bomber-fleet-grounded-after-runway-overshoot-engine-fire-1957106
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 08, 2015, 10:38:52 PM

...I think they're in accord.

Brass

Brass, as you know I lived in Cyprus for 8 years, so I am pretty certain I know more about the island's politics than you..


There is little doubt what the island's foreign minister says about sanctions in the island's financial press - back in Jan '15

''“Cyprus was always very careful and reluctant of the use of the sanctions. We have never been happy with this policy and we have said it so — it is wrong. ''

http://financialmirror.com/news-details.php?nid=33661 (http://financialmirror.com/news-details.php?nid=33661)

Russia has long been an important player in things Cyprus, but the island voted for Ukraine's resolution over Crimea - Ukraine's integrity being breached by Russia.

I'm certain that Russia regards Cyprus and Greece as the weak links in EU solidarity. Reading the FM's comments one has to wonder at what deal may have had to be done to make Mr Tusk so confident.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on June 09, 2015, 05:56:14 PM
More planes from the midget's crappy air force falling out of the sky.
 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

http://europe.newsweek.com/overstretched-russian-air-force-suffers-three-jet-crashes-five-days-328470
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on June 09, 2015, 06:19:32 PM
More planes from the midget's crappy air force falling out of the sky.
 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

How dare you disparage Vladimir Bonaparte, the foremost military genius of our century.

(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa415/larryr1431/Napoleon%20Putin%20poster_zpsnde0zdp3.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 10, 2015, 07:50:26 PM
Russian frigates shadow warship hosting Harper

..."GDYNIA, POLAND—A Canadian warship carrying Stephen Harper in the Baltic Sea was shadowed by two Russian frigates on Wednesday, giving the prime minister a front-row seat in the naval chess game between the West and Russia.

There was never any danger, but the incident provided some unexpected drama after Harper and his wife, Laureen, spent the night on the frigate, HMCS Fredericton."...

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/06/10/russian-frigates-shadow-warship-hosting-harper.html

Harper used the strongest language yet towards Putin's war of aggression in his speech addressing the crew of HMCS Fredericton. Some excerpts...

..."But now just beyond NATO’s borders, we see new efforts to subvert free peoples and redraw boundaries by force.

The ongoing conflict in Moldova, the Russian offensive in Georgia in 2008, and now the invasion and annexation of parts of Ukraine by Mr. Putin.

Putin’s actions have cost the lives of more than 6,000 Ukrainians as well as the murder of hundreds of innocent civilians aboard a passenger plane. 

Mr. Putin’s recklessness threatens global stability, regional stability, and has spread fear among our eastern allies.

That, my friends, is why you, the men and women of the Royal Canadian Navy, are here.

Inspired by the will to defend, dissuade and de-escalate the conflict. 

Canada has joined our NATO allies to show our solidarity with our longstanding allies and with new democracies in Eastern Europe as they once again reject Russian imperialism.

And you are not alone.

The Royal Canadian Air Force is patrolling skies – the skies of Eastern Europe – and the Canadian Army is currently deployed in Poland, training with Polish and other NATO forces."...

..."President Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, undertaken to serve his own domestic agenda, political agenda, to divert attention from Russia’s long-term decline under his rule and to interfere with the democratic aspirations of a sovereign country, these things must not be allowed to stand."...

..."The people of Ukraine, like all free peoples, must be able to choose their own future and that includes a Euro-Atlantic and NATO future if that is what they wish."...

..."Canada has no quarrel with the Russian people.

On the contrary. 

Canada looks forward to a time when Russia might again be welcomed into the community of peaceful nations as a responsible, contributing participant to world affairs. 

We look forward someday to a Russian government focused on delivering prosperity and democracy to the Russian people, and peace and stability in this region. 

And we look forward to a Russia not inclined to foreign adventures, territorial conquests, and absurd attempts to deny reality or change the outcome of the Cold War.

I regret very much that this is not and will never be Mr. Putin’s Russia."... 

..."Canada will continue to judge Mr. Putin not on his words, but on his actions."...

See more at: http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2015/06/10/pm-addresses-crew-board-hmcs-fredericton-during-his-visit-poland#sthash.2q7ToHpb.dpuf

Brass






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 10, 2015, 08:33:49 PM
AP, Moscow
 V.Putin announced today that since Russia has been tossed out of the G8, he'll form his own club called the G1.  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

And they won't be invited to join!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 10, 2015, 09:25:49 PM
‎Putler‬ finally admits use of "Force" in Donbass - Direct quote

"All our actions, including those with the use of force, were aimed not at tearing away this territory from Ukraine but at giving the people living there an opportunity to express their opinion on how they want to live their lives."

http://www.corriere.it/…/vladimir-putin-interview-to-the-it…
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 10, 2015, 11:12:35 PM
Putin Keeps Pope Waiting, Gets Told off by Francis on Ukraine

..."Pope Francis waited for more than an hour to tell Russian President Vladimir Putin to commit to peace and dialogue on Ukraine.

Putin kept the leader of 1.2 billion Catholics waiting for 70 minutes -- a rare occurrence at the Vatican."...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-10/putin-keeps-pope-waiting-gets-told-off-by-francis-on-ukraine

Somebody oughta buy this guy a watch.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on June 11, 2015, 12:55:36 AM
Sadly, this is his trademark. Only in the rarest of circumstances do diplomatic meetings happen on time as scheduled.

It carries the underlying message that "my time is more important than yours, and you will wait on me--not vice versa." Instead of showing power, as imagined, it reveals a jaded and juvenile attitude.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on June 11, 2015, 01:18:26 AM
Putin Keeps Pope Waiting, Gets Told off by Francis on Ukraine

..."Pope Francis waited for more than an hour to tell Russian President Vladimir Putin to commit to peace and dialogue on Ukraine.

Putin kept the leader of 1.2 billion Catholics waiting for 70 minutes -- a rare occurrence at the Vatican."...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-10/putin-keeps-pope-waiting-gets-told-off-by-francis-on-ukraine

Somebody oughta buy this guy a watch.

Brass

Looking at the photo of this article...

Even with the Pope slightly hunched over, huilo is still the shortest person in the room.  :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 11, 2015, 01:41:58 AM
The joke of RT cameras  being set up behind  the flag waving hirelings of the Kremlin to show how "warm" Putins  "italian" "welcome" was . :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 11, 2015, 05:10:45 AM
How come Putin was allowed into Italy?  Is he not on the list of those banned from travelling to the West under the sanctions?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on June 11, 2015, 06:09:09 AM
Generally heads of state (leaders of nations) do not end up on banned travel lists. It is sen as bad form in the diplomatic world.

But a couple minions of Vladimir can do little more than did there toes in the Black Sea.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 14, 2015, 06:09:02 PM
More weight is likely to be added to the do something about Russia discussion  during the coming US elections. None of the prospective winners is likely to be softer on Russia than Obama and being more pro-active is likely to be a winner as a campaign plank.


Bipartisan Realism About Russia

22 JUN 14, 2015 11:22 AM EDT
By Albert R. Hunt
It could have been President Barack Obama issuing a firm warning -- measured, devoid of bellicose threats -- to Vladimir Putin that the West would keep the pressure on as long as Russia interfered with Ukraine's sovereignty.

Instead, it was Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor and a leading 2016 Republican presidential aspirant, speaking at a news conference in Berlin on Wednesday.

The political implication is minimal. It's not clear Russia will be a top issue in the presidential race, and Bush has bigger problems than sounding a bit like the president on one foreign policy matter. But the similarity of tone underscores the how difficult and problematic U.S.-Russian relations are.

Obama, his Republican critics notwithstanding, has been pretty resolute since Putin took over Crimea and began assisting separatists in eastern Ukraine last year. In response to the aggression, the U.S. has initiated tough economic sanctions and isolated Russia.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-06-14/bipartisan-realism-about-russia
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 15, 2015, 07:49:41 PM
The extent of the fall in the Russian economy continues. The much vaunted cash reserves are hardly getting a mention these days.




Nabiullina: Russia's economy has not reached bottom

Central Bank head Elvira Nabiullina said that the Russian economy has not yet found the bottom of the crisis has not yet passed, reports RIA "Novosti" .

She noted that the Russian economy suffers from the second year of the outflow of capital, and this year this negative factor was added decrease in consumption.

"However, in contrast to the peak of inflation, the bottom of the recession, in our opinion, has not yet been completed", - she said.

http://www.gazeta.ru/business/news/2015/06/15/n_7289109.shtml
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 16, 2015, 10:53:23 PM
This link could have been placed in numerous current threads -- the comments reflect some views expressed on this forum over a period of time.
What has become much clearer over the last 18 months are Putins aspirations-- and his overall craziness-- and to the lengths he is prepared to go to achieve his aims.

This quote is of particular significence--

“The time for talks with Russia, unfortunately, has passed,” Felshtinsky concludes. “Russia does not plan to reach agreement with the West, but the West sincerely does not understand how one can reach an agreement with a negotiating partner if he does not plan to agree on anything."

That is exactly why western support action in Ukraine is needed urgently-that is a message Putin will understand-- and getting his military's heads kicked in  will suddenly see Putin wanting to talk . Of course I would always talk--and when all Russian forces have withdrawn from Ukraine and compensation agreed and paid- I might start listening to anything Russia has to say. I would maintain and increase the sanctions and economic isolation untill there is acceptable regime change in Russia  ie treat negotiations with Russia in the same way Putin is now treating Ukraine and the west.

Putin’s unrealizable dream vs. his all too-real nightmare


That Vladimir Putin lives in a different reality than do other world leaders is now more or less common ground. Now, two commentators have described respectively what the Kremlin leader dreams about and what his worst nightmare might turn out to be.

In a commentary of Kyiv’s “Novoye vremya,” Yury Felshtinsky, a Russian historian who now lives in the US, says that Putin’s dream is that the world will treat his Russia as having a status equal to that of the United States, something the writer says is beyond his capacity to achieve.

For Putin, Felshtinsky says, “the US is the main problem. Not Chechnya, not Georgia and not Ukraine.” But he has a problem: “Perhaps America would be glad to recognize Russia as an equal partner but Russia has nothing besides Gazprom, and the earnings of Gazprom are less than those of the American company Apple.”

“America has no ideology regarding Russia. It wants to see Russia as it wants to see everyone else as a peaceful and reliable partner in politics and business,” he continues. However, “there cannot be relations of parity between the two because Russia in the literal sense is not a great power. It exports raw materials and imports everything else.”

“Over the course of the last century,” he writes, Russia “has destroyed its farmers and its own intellectuals, carried out the terror famine in Ukraine, and conducted a global purge of its own Soviet communist nomenklatura and army. And the Soviet Union fought with Hitler only because the latter attacked it.”

In contrast, “Washington dreams only about one thing” – that Russia will stop causing problems. “No one ever expected anything good from Russia, only something bad,” although when periods of a warming of the relationship happen, “all are ready to accept this as a long-term strategic change and look with hope into the eyes of Putin, a KGB guy who, as President Bush said, one could believe.”


http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/06/15/putins-unrealizable-dream-vs-his-all-too-real-nightmare/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on June 17, 2015, 08:24:49 AM
There goes the midget's hope that EU will lift the sanctions on Putinland...  :popcorn:

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-agrees-extend-economic-sanctions-russia-end-january-120849811.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on June 17, 2015, 08:37:46 AM
Not looking promising if the midget is pinning all his hope in getting the Chinese to bail out his third-world economy...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/06/17/china-not-so-in-love-with-russia-afterall/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 17, 2015, 10:34:36 AM
There goes the midget's hope that EU will lift the sanctions on Putinland...  :popcorn:

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-agrees-extend-economic-sanctions-russia-end-january-120849811.html

There was little doubt.

...I think they're in accord.

Brass, as you know I lived in Cyprus for 8 years, so I am pretty certain I know more about the island's politics than you..

There is little doubt what the island's foreign minister says about sanctions in the island's financial press - back in Jan '15

''“Cyprus was always very careful and reluctant of the use of the sanctions. We have never been happy with this policy and we have said it so — it is wrong. ''

http://financialmirror.com/news-details.php?nid=33661 (http://financialmirror.com/news-details.php?nid=33661)

Russia has long been an important player in things Cyprus, but the island voted for Ukraine's resolution over Crimea - Ukraine's integrity being breached by Russia.

I'm certain that Russia regards Cyprus and Greece as the weak links in EU solidarity. Reading the FM's comments one has to wonder at what deal may have had to be done to make Mr Tusk so confident.

I let these comment ride until the EU met to avoid having to respond to what I'm sure would have amounted to edit:two weeks of your continued argumentative BS.

This is now the third time (if memory serves) over the years you've been shown incorrect employing your self inflated knowledge and ill informed conclusions as to how "the island's politics" work .

I've stated this before but I'll reiterate it once again for your edification (not that it'll matter); Even after well over two decades, my six months in Cyprus with UNFICYP MP Coy, attending political/intelligence/incident briefings on a day to day basis concerning matters on both sides of the Green Line gives me an insight into the political/historical machinations of both the Greek and Turk Cyps you will never have.

We've seen the EU ambassadors come to unanimous agreement for extension of the sanctions against Russia. We now await formal adaption of the agreement by the EU foreign ministers sometime in the coming weeks.

I believe the Foreign Ministers will adopt/ratify this sanctions extension with as little fuss as the ambassador's decision to agree to it.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 17, 2015, 09:32:37 PM
Sucks to be them..  :crackwhip:

Europe Deals a Double Blow to Putin’s Russia


A Belgian court goes after Russian assets in the decade-old Yukos case just as Brussels renews economic sanctions on Moscow through the rest of the year.



http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/17/europe-deals-a-double-blow-to-putins-russia-sanctions-yukos-rosneft/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on June 17, 2015, 10:35:14 PM
nothing surprising here , but interesting reading non the less

SX

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Russia Ranked One of Least Peaceful Countries in World
The Moscow Times
Jun. 17 2015 19:01

Sergei Karpukhin / ReutersRussia has “higher levels of expenditure on the military, internal security and costs associated with violent crime,” the report said. .
Russia was ranked 152 out of 162 countries on the 2015 Global Peace Index.

The Australia-based Institute for Economics and Peace think tank, which compiles the ranking, put Russia between Nigeria (151) and North Korea (153).

The report cited "Russian-backed separatists" in the conflict in Ukraine, "Russia's military takeover of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula" and the "flow of Russian arms" to the Middle East and Africa. Along with China, which was ranked 124th, Russia has "higher levels of expenditure on the military, internal security and costs associated with violent crime," the report said.

The index's authors analyzed 23 different types of data in 162 countries during the last eight years, focusing on the level of security, inbound and outbound conflicts and the degree of militarization in the countries.

Syria took the bottom position due to its ongoing civil war, while Iceland was named the most peaceful country in the world, followed by Denmark, Austria, New Zealand and Switzerland


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-ranked-one-of-least-peaceful-countries-in-world/523919.html

http://economicsandpeace.org/

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#/page/indexes/global-peace-index
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 18, 2015, 12:57:01 PM
Looks like the EU is starting to lose a little of it's timidity when it comes to Russia.

A bold move by The Hague, EU, Belgium, France and Austria...

France, Belgium and Austria to Seize Russian Assets Over Yukos Dispute

..."In an effort to repay shareholders of Yukos, a now-defunct Russian oil company, Belgian, French and Austrian courts this week authorized officials to seize Russian government assets in the three countries."...

..."After an unsuccessful appeal by Russia, the ruling came into effect in December 2014, and Moscow had six months to start repaying the money. In March, the European Union demanded that Russia come up with a compensation plan by June 15."...

..."Since Russia failed to do so, on Wednesday, a Belgian court announced it would confiscate all property belonging to the Russian government in the country. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs protested the move, calling it “a major violation of statutes of international law.”...

http://www.newsweek.com/france-belgium-and-austria-seize-russian-assets-over-yukos-dispute-344467

Russia Angered by Freezing of Accounts in Belgium and France

..."The Russian government on Thursday strongly condemned the freezing of Russian accounts in France and Belgium as part of an effort to enforce a $50 billion judgment for the destruction of the Yukos oil company.

An arbitration court in The Hague, Netherlands, ruled last year that Russia must compensate the former shareholders of Yukos, which was destroyed in a politically driven legal onslaught that also sent its chief executive, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, to prison for 10 years."...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russian-accounts-frozen-france-belgium-yukos-case-31858294

Of course, Russia has already threatened to start seizing assets of the countries enforcing the ruling...

Two Can Play This Game: Russia Warns Belgium Asset Freeze Works Both Ways

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150618/1023540442.html#ixzz3dRZLimN2

My suggestion would be the rest of the EU, as well as the US and Commonwealth countries follow suit, implement the court order and start seizing Russian state assets worldwide.

Brass





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on June 18, 2015, 09:58:54 PM
The most high profile example of Russian assets in the EU gotta be those 2 Mistral warships paid for by huilo but not delivered by France.

But what will the creditors do with 2 seized warships though?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 18, 2015, 10:46:20 PM
The most high profile example of Russian assets in the EU gotta be those 2 Mistral warships paid for by huilo but not delivered by France.

But what will the creditors do with 2 seized warships though?

Seize and auction to the highest bidder. One or two countries get a great deal on an almost completed advanced warship and France is off the hook for any contractual obligations (the 1.4 billion €) Russia is on about.  ;)

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 19, 2015, 07:23:31 PM
 :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

That ought to chap the Huilomeisters arse!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 19, 2015, 07:49:23 PM
The most high profile example of Russian assets in the EU gotta be those 2 Mistral warships paid for by huilo but not delivered by France.

But what will the creditors do with 2 seized warships though?

I would give them to Ukraine-- as the start of the compensation owed by the Russian-in this case-- specifically the destruction of Ukrainian ships on the Crimea-- and the current holding of Ukrainian Navy ships ( and the Crimea as a whole)
Ukrainians could do training maneuvers off Sevastopol-- so Russians can see what they paid for ! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 19, 2015, 11:16:20 PM
This in a nutshell is why this arrogant little man will lose his quest for empire...

Putin says Harper will change his mind on Russia in G8 if U.S. tells him to

..."Russia appears to be angling to make it the G-8 once again and President Vladimir Putin suggests it's something Prime Minister Stephen Harper will just have to accept.

"I don't want to offend anyone, but if the United States says Russia should be returned to the G8, the prime minister will change his opinion," Putin told The Canadian Press during a meeting with the heads of world news agencies at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum.

Russian officials dropped hints all day Friday that a deal might be the works for Putin to attend the next summit after missing two consecutive meetings.

Following the last gathering of leaders in Germany at the beginning of June, Harper made it clear he didn't want Putin back at the table because he doesn't share the values of the group."...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/putin-says-harper-will-change-his-mind-on-russia-in-g8-if-u-s-tells-him-to-1.3121253

Does he not understand that Canada's relationship with America is not the same as Russia's employing it's strong arm intimidation tactics with neighboring countries?

The criminal despot must actually believe that the rest of the world operates along the same lines as Putinland and that the POTUS can simply tell the PM to let him back in the group....Or what? Obama will invade southern Saskatchewan with little green men? Point missiles at us? Threaten 'consequences' if he don't cooperate?

Does Putin actually think that Obama would just "tell" the neighboring head of state for the US' closest ally, defense partner and largest trading partner to 'change his mind' so he can attend a G7 meeting?

What a maroon. The guy's getting more unstable by the day. Sooner or later this rabid, barking Russian Chihuahua is going to have to be put down.

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 19, 2015, 11:38:08 PM
This in a nutshell is why this arrogant little man will lose his quest for empire...

Brass
Putin and the Kremlin have consistently misread the western attitude and the degree of seriousness that the situation is viewed.
Overnight Cameron has re-iterated support for Ukraine in the east- AND in Crimea.
Generally speaking-the German softly softly approach is now seen as a failure- but the west is still not anywhere near clear enough in sending the message to Putin that he is not going to get away with his invasion.

All round a fail for Russia in reading Ukrainians attitudes-- and apart from being contemptuous towards the west-- a fail in understanding the resolve of the west.

Putin was hoping to mask the failures of the Russian economic management -but now-- time is working against him.Whether it caches up with Putin or Russia first is the question now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on June 20, 2015, 02:00:20 AM


What a maroon. The guy's getting more unstable by the day. Sooner or later this rabid, barking Russian Chihuahua is going to have to be put down.

Brass

It will always be one of history's great 'What if' questions...

What if during his youth huilo had received proper therapy to help him deal with his bitterness issues for being so short, he might actually have turned out to be an okay guy.

But then again therapy methods as used in the West probably do not exist in the USSR then.
Most likely their definition of therapy is to attached some electrodes and then crank up the voltage. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 20, 2015, 08:26:36 AM
Sleepy Kot,

Whether VV has any size problems probably does not mean he lacks for any sleeping companions.  All the Siloveki are in the same bed.  As goes Putin, so go they.

The largest issue confronting the world right now is ISIS.  To that end, I think there is room for negotiation with Russia to accomplish the demise of such a radical group.  If not, then there will be a much more flagrant and destructive force to deal with than Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on June 20, 2015, 09:04:45 AM


The largest issue confronting the world right now is ISIS.  To that end, I think there is room for negotiation with Russia to accomplish the demise of such a radical group.  If not, then there will be a much more flagrant and destructive force to deal with than Russia.


I don't know about ISIS being the biggest problem in the world....but yes negotiation with Russia is necessary. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 20, 2015, 11:06:28 AM
The country producing the greatest number of refugees right now is Syria.  Most of them are fleeing ISIS.  There are photos on news sites of thousands attempting to cross barbed wire fences into Turkey, only to be turned back, at gunpoint, by ISIS.  So yes, I think they are the cause of a great deal of instability.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 22, 2015, 05:01:38 PM
I believe the Foreign Ministers will adopt/ratify this sanctions extension with as little fuss as the ambassador's decision to agree to it.

EU Extends Economic Sanctions on Russia Until End of January

..."LUXEMBOURG—European Union foreign ministers extended broad economic sanctions on Russia until the end of January 2016, a move designed to give the bloc time to gauge if the Kremlin will fully implement its side of February’s Minsk cease-fire and peace plan by year-end.

The EU decision came without a debate among ministers, underlining that despite months of public questioning of sanctions by the likes of Greece and Hungary, the bloc remained united in opposing Russian pressure on Ukraine."...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-extends-economic-sanctions-on-russia-until-end-of-january-1434960823

Let's see if Russia is so eager to assist Greece with a financial bailout now or will there be 'consultation' for the next six months.

What the EU/NATO/western countries need to understand is this can't be the extent of their actions for the next six months. Sanctions can't be the entire game plan. What has to happen is a multi pronged strategy involving NATO military policy and exponentially increasing financial/economic pressure.

Russia's expulsion from SWIFT and losing the FIFA World Cup would be a good start.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on June 22, 2015, 05:54:27 PM
This in a nutshell is why this arrogant little man will lose his quest for empire...

Putin says Harper will change his mind on Russia in G8 if U.S. tells him to

..."Russia appears to be angling to make it the G-8 once again and President Vladimir Putin suggests it's something Prime Minister Stephen Harper will just have to accept.

"I don't want to offend anyone, but if the United States says Russia should be returned to the G8, the prime minister will change his opinion," Putin told The Canadian Press during a meeting with the heads of world news agencies at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum.

Russian officials dropped hints all day Friday that a deal might be the works for Putin to attend the next summit after missing two consecutive meetings.

Following the last gathering of leaders in Germany at the beginning of June, Harper made it clear he didn't want Putin back at the table because he doesn't share the values of the group."...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/putin-says-harper-will-change-his-mind-on-russia-in-g8-if-u-s-tells-him-to-1.3121253

Does he not understand that Canada's relationship with America is not the same as Russia's employing it's strong arm intimidation tactics with neighboring countries?

The criminal despot must actually believe that the rest of the world operates along the same lines as Putinland and that the POTUS can simply tell the PM to let him back in the group....Or what? Obama will invade southern Saskatchewan with little green men? Point missiles at us? Threaten 'consequences' if he don't cooperate?

Does Putin actually think that Obama would just "tell" the neighboring head of state for the US' closest ally, defense partner and largest trading partner to 'change his mind' so he can attend a G7 meeting?

What a maroon. The guy's getting more unstable by the day. Sooner or later this rabid, barking Russian Chihuahua is going to have to be put down.

Brass

brass,

my feeling on this from v putin is that he is trying to sow discontent between the US and CANADA , given his background and his love of manipulating facts /personalities , he possibly thinks this may be agood strategy to drive awedge between  G7 members

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 24, 2015, 09:36:47 AM
brass,

my feeling on this from v putin is that he is trying to sow discontent between the US and CANADA , given his background and his love of manipulating facts /personalities , he possibly thinks this may be agood strategy to drive awedge between  G7 members

SX

It's as good an explanation as any, SX.   :)

I think it's just part and parcel of his lack of understanding of world reality.

I've always maintained Putin isn't very intelligent. His strength lies in the fact he's devious and an opportunist. What he's been getting away with on the world stage in these last few years isn't due to his leadership skills but to lack of same in the west.

As an aside, I've also noted that the Russian trolls/propagandists have been quietly exiting stage left recently. Not just from the forums but there is less activity in other information/news venues as well.

Maybe the Russian troll factory has stopped paying?

Or it's also possible that credibility (lack of) is a factor.  An example of a loss of credibility would be the despicable, corrupt internet personality I've nicknamed Lord Haw-Haw from elsewhere. His internet trolling and predictions have been without exception - wrong. You simply can't expect to function effectively or be taken seriously as a disinformation agent if the predictions/arguments/assertions you make are continually incorrect.

My belief is that the US/NATO has been quietly disseminating intelligence and/or imaging to the EU nations confirming that the Russians are:

a. Inside Ukraine;

b. Responsible for downing MH17; and

c. No where near as powerful with conventional or strategic forces as the Russian propaganda machine would have them believe.

There has been a distinct shift in the EU's attitude towards Russia/Putin in the last few months. I think that they're slowly coming to the realization that the 'Emperor has no clothes.'

They've lost their respect/fear of Putin. Now all that needs to happen is to get this current flock of benign western leaders to act on it.

Brass






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 24, 2015, 09:48:04 AM
I'm not certain there was ever a fear of Putin.  I think that is Putin would like, but who, in the West, can really fear Russia?  It's laughable.

I think a lot of EU countries want to continue trading with Russia and seeing their banking sector profit from the Russian oligarchs who don't keep their assets in Russia.  In particular, that is Germany and the U.K.  France has a very different attitude toward Russians.

In the past few days, EU representatives in Brussels allegedly have been pushing Ukrainian politicians to accept Putin's call for Ukraine's constitution to be amended to give Donbas a de facto veto.  It would be idiotic to accede to this, and effectively would give Moscow a veto over Ukraine's internal politics.  So, I am not certain the EU, or at least not all of it, sees through Putin. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 24, 2015, 10:28:21 AM
I'm not certain there was ever a fear of Putin.  I think that is Putin would like, but who can really fear Russia?  It's laughable.

I think a lot of EU countries want to continue trading with Russia and seeing their banking sector profit from the Russian oligarchs who don't keep their assets in Russia.  In particular, that is Germany and the U.K.  France has a very different attitude toward Russians.

In the past few days, EU representatives in Brussels allegedly have been pushing Ukrainian politicians to accept Putin's call for Ukraine's constitution to be amended to give Donbas a de facto veto.  It would be idiotic to accede to this, and would effectively give Moscow a veto over Ukraine's internal politics.  So, I am not certain the EU, or at least not all of it, sees through Putin.

I believe the US/NATO inadvertently fermented what I term as fear, timidity, hesitation, belief (however you word it) the Russian invasion of the Baltics/further incursion into Ukraine or other neighboring countries without retaliation could happen by first turning a blind eye to Russia's aggression, then minimizing Russia's criminal action and finally negotiating with Russia to end said action. None of which has worked. Sanctions have been effective there's no denying it but sanctions will not remove Russian boots from Ukraine or Georgia. A more intense multi pronged strategy involving NATO and The Hague might but not sanctions alone.

The sanctions (both ways) have to some degree shown Europe/the world that it can get along without the Russian economy or at least work around it. Initially the big concern was gas, this seems to have dissipated over time.

The Russians fostered the idea that Europe was still dealing with a USSR economic/military juggernaut like entity. Not true. As time goes on Russia is being slowly minimized on the world economic stage. The Oligarch's will eventually have to fish (do business) in European waters by the EU's rules or cut bait.

Agreed, to sign such a document would not be in the best interests of Ukraine. Whichever EU countries are counseling this (first I've read of it) should be ignored or even censured for suggesting such an action.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 24, 2015, 10:52:12 AM
I believe the US/NATO inadvertently fermented what I term as fear, timidity, hesitation, belief (however you word it) the Russian invasion of the Baltics/further incursion into Ukraine or other neighboring countries without retaliation could happen by first turning a blind eye to Russia's aggression, then minimizing Russia's criminal action and finally negotiating with Russia to end said action. None of which has worked. Sanctions have been effective there's no denying it but sanctions will not remove Russian boots from Ukraine or Georgia. A more intense multi pronged strategy involving NATO and The Hague might but not sanctions alone.

The sanctions (both ways) have to some degree shown Europe/the world that it can get along without the Russian economy or at least work around it. Initially the big concern was gas, this seems to have dissipated over time.

The Russians fostered the idea that Europe was still dealing with a USSR economic/military juggernaut like entity. Not true. As time goes on Russia is being slowly minimized on the world economic stage. The Oligarch's will eventually have to fish (do business) in European waters by the EU's rules or cut bait.

Agreed, to sign such a document would not be in the best interests of Ukraine. Whichever EU countries are counseling this (first I've read of it) should be ignored or even censured for suggesting such an action.

Brass


I'm not so sure of that Brass.


I think that the past and prevailing nonchalant EU attitude towards Russia has been the dictating factor of the US/NATO response to Russia. We all agree it is an European issue and the the big boys in the EU could care less what happens to the former Warsaw Pact nations. They may be even happy if it all would go back to the USSR v2.0


Quote

The Cold War is over. Moscow is an unpleasant regional actor, not a global threat. Europe has a much larger GDP and population than Russia and even with its current anemic level of military outlays devotes more to defense. The U.S. government is essentially bankrupt, with far greater unfunded liabilities than the Europeans, despite Greece’s travails.


Instead of pouring more resources into NATO, Washington should be disengaging militarily, turning leadership of the alliance and responsibility for defending the continent over to Europe. Americans shouldn’t be expected to protect their rich cousins even if the latter were devoted to protecting each other. That the Europeans expect the U.S. to do their job is yet another reason for Americans to say no more.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2015/06/24/washington-confronts-russia-over-ukraine-yet-europeans-wont-protect-themselves-from-vladimir-putin/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on June 24, 2015, 12:15:07 PM
I believe the US/NATO inadvertently fermented what I term as fear, timidity, hesitation, belief (however you word it) the Russian invasion of the Baltics/further incursion into Ukraine or other neighboring countries without retaliation could happen by first turning a blind eye to Russia's aggression, then minimizing Russia's criminal action and finally negotiating with Russia to end said action. None of which has worked. Sanctions have been effective there's no denying it but sanctions will not remove Russian boots from Ukraine or Georgia. A more intense multi pronged strategy involving NATO and The Hague might but not sanctions alone.

The sanctions (both ways) have to some degree shown Europe/the world that it can get along without the Russian economy or at least work around it. Initially the big concern was gas, this seems to have dissipated over time.

The Russians fostered the idea that Europe was still dealing with a USSR economic/military juggernaut like entity. Not true. As time goes on Russia is being slowly minimized on the world economic stage. The Oligarch's will eventually have to fish (do business) in European waters by the EU's rules or cut bait.

Agreed, to sign such a document would not be in the best interests of Ukraine. Whichever EU countries are counseling this (first I've read of it) should be ignored or even censured for suggesting such an action.

Brass

In a large degree I agree with the above statements, I think though The United States reached out to Russia and because of a multiple of reasons this effort failed back in the Yeltsin and early Putin years. The US won the cold war and we there was an effort (half hearted) to bring Russia into a more international mind set.

But the Russian folk are strong and can adapt, but they are as bad as American's at foreign stuff. They trust there "leaders" way too much.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on June 27, 2015, 10:59:15 AM
The Kremlin/Putin has recently threatened Sweden, now that Sweden is cooperating with NATO and with joint military maneuvers.

The obvious question for Russians- Why is Sweden afraid of Russia? Why does Russia
want Sweden to be afraid of them? It's another example of Russia hurting itself. Russia's policies look like crude emotional responses, rather than thoughtful strategies...

about Sweden:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sweden-boosting-military-russias-ominous-195003584.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 28, 2015, 02:37:06 PM
The corrupt bargain on which Russian President Vladimir Putin built his regime—provision of wealth to loyal officials and a decent standard of living to the people—is in dire straits.

As the economy shrinks and the Kremlin adjusts its expenditures, Putin must be aware that the threat of a coalition of disgruntled officials and powerbrokers—aiming to restore their prosperity—grows daily.

With no intention of being deposed in a palace coup, Putin has gone on the offensive, striking the Russian political elite off-balance through mass dismissals and early elections. This threatens to disrupt established patronage networks and political stability across Russia.


Putin Meets Economic Collapse With Purges, Broken Promises

Putin failed to curb corruption or reform the economy for 15 years. He won't do so now that he is on emergency footing, and average citizens will suffer as a consequence.

As their situation deteriorates, Russians will not tolerate Putin's fruitless and autocratic tendencies. The coming chaos among the elite—and hardship for ordinary people—will destabilize Russia in the long term.

Economic Crisis

The collapsing ruble, Western sanctions, Putin's own ill-designed "countersanctions" and increasing nationalist fervor have prompted dramatic capital flight. By some estimates, capital flight in April was around twice that month's 1.6 percent drop GDP.

On June 15, the Russian statistics agency Rosstat reevaluated its estimate of GDP shrinkage from 1.9 percent to 2.2 percent. On June 11, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev stated that government income had fallen while expenses actually rose by 3.7 percent.

OPEC's flooding of the oil market ensures that Russian crude production will increase to maintain revenue, swamping the market and depressing prices. Putin's December 2014 budget was based on oil at $100 per barrel. The projected 2015 Brent crude price is $61 per barrel.

In response to these shocks, Moscow slashed investment projects by a third, including development of the Far East, Kaliningrad and the North Caucasus. Many Federal Target Programs and Federal Targeted Investment Programs will undergo severe cuts and may be seriously underfunded. Should the crisis persist through 2017, the Kremlin could deepen the investment cuts by 42 percent.

Preemptive Offensive

Recognizing the danger that these cuts may breed dissatisfaction within the government, Putin launched a preemptive offensive. He kicked off his campaign in April by tearing through the security chieftains, the siloviki.

On April 6, he gutted the Ministry of Emergency Situations, firing 19 officials from leadership positions across the country without appointing successors. He moved on the powerful Ministry of Internal Affairs, dismissing its Samara office head; naming new leadership for its branches in Krasnodar, Perm and Stavropol; and replacing the chief of its technology and information department.



http://www.newsweek.com/putin-meets-economic-collapse-purges-broken-promises-347565

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 29, 2015, 05:52:32 PM
The end of Putin’s gas bluff

For several consecutive months Gazprom functionaries have been trying to convince Ukraine and the world that gas transit through Ukrainian territory was a closed issue. The decision  to build the “Turkish Stream” had been personally approved by Vladimir Putin, thus demonstrating the seriousness of Russian intentions.

Now, after all these self-assured statements, President Vladimir Putin has instructed the Gazprom head Alexey Miller to hold talks with Ukraine on continuing the transit of Russian gas through Ukrainian territory after 2019. Miller, of course, is trying to pretend that Gazprom retains its tough position and would never agree to unfavorable conditions. But one should remember that as recently as several days ago no one in Gazprom wanted to hear anything at all about any conditions for the negotiations. There would no transit (through Ukraine)and that was it!

As a result of dropping oil prices, the European energy policy, and competition,times are not easy now at Gazprom. The Russian budget also leaves little room for throwing billions into a bottomless pit. In this situation Putin can only look reality in the eye and shed a tear. The gas bluff is coming to an end.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/06/29/the-end-of-putins-gas-bluff/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 29, 2015, 06:14:56 PM
Clothes and Shoe Stores Close Across Moscow as Crisis Strikes
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/clothes-and-shoe-stores-close-across-moscow-as-crisis-strikes/524625.html

Crimean Official Detained on Suspicion of Large-Scale Fraud
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/news/article/crimean-official-detained-on-suspicion-of-large-scale-fraud/524621.html

Tunnel Used to Smuggle Chinese-Soviet Intelligence Found
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/news/article/tunnel-used-to-smuggle-chinese-soviet-intelligence-found--report/524609.html

Locusts, Spiders, Snakes Plague Russian Regions
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/locusts-spiders-snakes-plague-russian-regions/524623.html

Rights Group Doubts Captured Russian Soldier Had Quit Army
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/rights-group-doubts-captured-russian-soldier-had-quit-army/524626.html

Russian Program to Build World's Biggest Intercontinental Missile Delayed
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-program-to-build-worlds-biggest-intercontinental-missile-delayed/524511.html

Moscow Strawberries Rot in Fields After Trade Near Metro Banned
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/moscow-strawberries-rot-in-fields-after-trade-near-metro-banned/524453.html

France Freezes Funds as Part of Magnitsky Fraud Case
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/france-freezes-funds-as-part-of-magnitsky-fraud-case/524392.html

As Putin Stalls on Economic Reforms, Investors' Frustration Grows
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/as-putin-stalls-on-economic-reforms-investors-frustration-grows/524301.html

Ruble Devaluation Sees Russian Spending on Foreign Real Estate Plunge
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ruble-devaluation-sees-russian-spending-on-foreign-real-estate-plunge/524155.html

















Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on June 29, 2015, 06:54:23 PM


As a result of dropping oil prices, the European energy policy, and competition,times are not easy now at Gazprom.

I wonder what the 10 year share price chart for Gazprom looks like?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 29, 2015, 07:36:15 PM
About like Putin's expected survival after Russia finishes going bankrupt.. Zip, Nil, Nada
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on June 29, 2015, 08:43:14 PM
About like Putin's expected survival after Russia finishes going bankrupt.. Zip, Nil, Nada


Today it is Greece close to BK...next week it may be Puerto Rico....this is a bad thing for us here in the USA too....


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 30, 2015, 07:51:49 AM

Today it is Greece close to BK...next week it may be Puerto Rico....this is a bad thing for us here in the USA too....


Fathertime!


PR should definitely default and the whole country should go bankrupt. That would be the best thing ever to happen to them.


Greece, on the other hand, is showing the futility of the EU. The EU does not exist except in German bank ledgers. The is NO Union. At all. The Germans would rather see an EU country sink into the Mediterranean than lose that 25% of their GDP as exports to the EU collapse.


Edit: Oops, that's 25%, not 15%
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on June 30, 2015, 09:05:05 AM
You gotta laugh at the arrogance of this Putin puppet masquerading as a politician...

Russia Calls For Counter-Sanctions Against 'Anti-Russian' Canada After Ottawa Hammers Moscow

..."One of Moscow's most powerful politicians is calling for his country to adopt heavy countersanctions on Canada after Ottawa made moves Monday to further inhibit the economic activities of 14 Russian companies and three Russian individuals. Alexei Pushkov, who heads the foreign-affairs committee in the State Duma, the lower house of the nation's parliament, said Canada was one of the most anti-Russian countries in the Western alliance and was attempting to broaden "its barely noticeable role in international affairs" by sanctioning it, the official Russian news agency Tass reported"...

"We should not pretend as if nothing is happening, and we need to devise a set of measures in regard to Canada," said Pushkov, who was also reacting to a Canadian ban on imports into and exports out of Crimea, the former Ukrainian territory that Russia annexed in March 2014.

Canada's sanctions, announced by the Stephen Harper-led Conservative government Monday, are primarily aimed at Russia's four main energy producers: Gazprom, Gazprom Neft, Surgutneftegas and Transneft."...

http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-calls-counter-sanctions-against-anti-russian-canada-after-ottawa-hammers-1989767

...Another swift kick to Russia's economic crotch compliments of Canada. Barely notice that you maroon. ;D

Seriously though it's time the Canadian government stopped toying with these clowns. I'd be all for withdrawing diplomatic relations and issuing high risk advisories to travelers and Canadian expats living in Russia. If something significant does happen the criminals in the Kremlin have already shown they won't hesitate to take hostages.

Brass




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on June 30, 2015, 04:20:36 PM

PR should definitely default and the whole country should go bankrupt. That would be the best thing ever to happen to them.


Greece, on the other hand, is showing the futility of the EU. The EU does not exist except in German bank ledgers. The is NO Union. At all. The Germans would rather see an EU country sink into the Mediterranean than lose that 25% of their GDP as exports to the EU collapse.


Edit: Oops, that's 25%, not 15%


You probably have a pretty good handle on Puerto Rico...why do you think they should go BK?  I will say the recent bond holders collecting the high interest should have known going in this was a strong possibility. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on July 01, 2015, 03:53:18 PM

You probably have a pretty good handle on Puerto Rico...why do you think they should go BK?  I will say the recent bond holders collecting the high interest should have known going in this was a strong possibility. 


Fathertime!


The bond holders were lied to.


As long as PR stays under the heel of the US Congress nothing will change.


I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count, who do you think instituted the welfare state in PR?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on July 10, 2015, 01:57:03 PM
Slowly but surely the pieces are falling into place...

Russia is biggest threat to US national security, Joint Chiefs nominee tells Congress

..."WASHINGTON (AP) — Russia poses the world's greatest threat to U.S. national security, President Barack Obama's nominee to lead the military's Joint Chiefs of Staff declared on Thursday. The White House quickly distanced the president from that blunt assessment.

Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford told senators at his confirmation hearing, "If you want to talk about a nation that could pose an existential threat to the United States, I'd have to point to Russia. And if you look at their behavior, it's nothing short of alarming."...

..."But he said, "My assessment today ... is that Russia presents the greatest threat to our national security."...

..."In Europe, Vladimir Putin's Russia continues its onslaught in Ukraine," said McCain, R-Ariz. "But even as Russian troops and equipment execute this neo-imperial campaign to undermine Ukraine's government and independence, the United States has refused Ukraine the weapons it needs and deserves for its defense."

Dunford agreed with McCain.

"From a military perspective, I think it's reasonable that we provide that support to the Ukrainians," he said. "And frankly, without that kind of support, they're not going to be able to protect themselves against Russian aggression."...

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2015/07/09/joint-chiefs-nominee-says-he-will-assess-strategy-against-is

The rather perplexing thing is Gen. Dunford is Obama's nominee and the Whitehouse is now scrambling to distance themselves from his assessment/comments.

With yet another voice added to the chorus of stronger assistance for Ukraine you'd think Pres. Obama might reflect on his own lack of resolve and consider the possibility that maybe he's not handling the Russia situation correctly.

As the article alludes to, Gen Dunford, has in fact arrived at the same conclusion Romney (previously) and McCain arrived at (along with every other sane person on the planet) two years ago - Arm Ukraine.

It seems (at least for myself) time has stopped and this second term of Pres. Obama's is never ending.

Hopefully, Gen. Dunford is confirmed and assumes his office quickly. One more person with a true understanding of the current situation in a position to significantly contribute to end Russia's aggression can't hurt, at least.

Brass   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 10, 2015, 09:36:41 PM
Gazprom Broke? Is Russia far behind?


Turkmenistan says Russia's Gazprom has not paid for any gas this year

 Turkmenistan, irked by falling natural gas exports to Russia, hit out at Moscow's gas export monopoly Gazprom on Wednesday, saying the energy giant had not paid for gas purchased from the Central Asian country so far this year.

"Since the beginning of 2015, OAO Gazprom has not paid for its debts to state concern Turkmengas for the shipped volumes of Turkmen natural gas," Turkmenistan's Oil and Gas Ministry said in a statement on its official website (www.oilgas.gov.tm).

It did not say how much Gazprom owed Turkmenistan, nor did it say how much Turkmen gas had been shipped to Russia to date.

"Russian company Gazprom has become insolvent on its natural gas purchase-and-sale contracts due to the continued global economic crisis and economic sanctions imposed by Western nations on Russia," the ministry's statement said.




http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/08/gas-turkmenistan-gazprom-idUKL8N0ZO30Q20150708
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on July 10, 2015, 09:43:37 PM
Gazprom Broke? Is Russia far behind?

Russia has 1,250 tons of gold included in it's $360,000,000 in Foreign Exchange Reserves.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on July 13, 2015, 02:17:21 AM
Now there are 23 less Russian soldiers able to go on vacation in Eastern Ukraine.  :popcorn:

http://news.yahoo.com/18-killed-russian-military-barrack-collapse-siberia-govt-061106066.html

No doubt there will not be a word of this on Russian state owned TV as the botox dwarf has made it illegal to report Russian military deaths.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on July 15, 2015, 12:56:29 AM
http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-poverty-critical-amid-western-sanctions-oil-price-dropping-2008577

The midget president must really be proud of this accomplishment...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on July 15, 2015, 03:10:32 AM
With what seems an agreement with Iran that allows Iran to again export oil, this can only point to a lower price for a barrel of oil, in the future.

I guess after being mothballed it will take a while for Iranian oil to start to be exported, but assuming the agreement is enacted and signed off on, the oil will flow into the worlds economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 15, 2015, 01:01:05 PM
In other news today:

The Duma today presented new laws that prohibit citizens of Russia from discussing military aircraft.  It seems that there is a generic threat to the country that such discussion might lead to a general lack of confidence in aircraft that fly for the military and aircraft that fly within Russia.

Violators of this (proposed) law will be forced to fly in one of the aforementioned aircraft and post their experiences for all to read.  Those that do not survive the flights will not be required to post.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on July 15, 2015, 08:36:03 PM

interesting article below  russian regions debt levels increase


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/debt-crisis-looms-as-putins-pledges-bankrupt-russian-regions/525723.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on July 22, 2015, 08:43:30 AM
Millions more Russians sliding into poverty.  :popcorn:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/22/news/economy/russia-crisis-poverty-three-million/index.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on July 24, 2015, 05:13:26 PM
And yet another heavy blow to the Russian economy. The US will begin to export natural gas at a cost of around 40% less than Russia currently does. Hard times. Wonder if that huge LNG terminal that was in the planning stages at the port of Odessa may be under talks once more?


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/07/02/ozy-us-export-russia-gas/29580505/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/07/02/ozy-us-export-russia-gas/29580505/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on July 24, 2015, 06:45:59 PM
Q)  What should you do if you are the dwarf president whose country has been rated as junk status by major international
      credit rating agencies?

A)  Start your own credit rating agency to paint a positive picture of your country's third world economy of course!

http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/russia-announces-creation-credit-rating-agency-190042540--sector.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on July 26, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
 today in Sevastopol big military day. http://youtu.be/DWzEvuCQBqU       I bet the commander is already headed for Siberia
I wonder how the Kremlin will spin this one.
 :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on July 26, 2015, 08:59:36 PM
today in Sevastopol big military day. http://youtu.be/DWzEvuCQBqU       I bet the commander is already headed for Siberia
I wonder how the Kremlin will spin this one.
 :D

On the bright side, at least the misfired missile didn't sink its own ship.  :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 26, 2015, 10:48:10 PM
That's too bad.. That would have been a bigger embarrassment for them.  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 28, 2015, 08:24:52 AM
In other (bad) news for Russia, slumping oil prices have slowed Gazprom's output to a trickle and the Ruble has once again devalued against the Dollar.

Today the Ruble inched above the 60 per dollar mark, finishing at 60.62 Rubles to a Dollar.  The continued double whammy of sanctions and low oil prices are wreaking havoc on the Russian economy.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-ruble-drops-past-60-per-dollar-112739600.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on August 01, 2015, 04:16:11 AM
Average Bribe in Russia Doubles in Rubles, Remains Steady in Dollars

The amount of the average bribe in Russia has nearly doubled this year, reaching 208,000 rubles ($3,485 at today's rate), as the country's currency has shed value amid Western sanctions and an economic downturn, according to Interior Ministry estimates cited by pro-government Izvestia daily on Friday.

This compares to about 109,000 rubles Russians are believed to have been paying or receiving as an average bribe in 2014, though police concede that their estimates may not be completely accurate, the report said.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/526556.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on August 06, 2015, 08:18:35 AM
Coming in at number one for the servile adulator's misplaced faith in Putin's ability to rule the world...

The Mistral Ships Deal:...

...France should forward any funds received from Russia's Mistral contract to Ukraine's government as partial compensation for war damage.

France cancels sale of warships to Russia, pays Moscow back

..."France is looking for a buyer for two high-tech Mistral warships worth a reported $1.3 billion after confirming Thursday that it had canceled its controversial deal to deliver the vessels to Russia..

Paris has reimbursed Moscow for the two helicopter carriers, which the French government decided not to deliver because of Russia's annexation of Crimea last year."...

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-france-cancels-sale-warships-to-russia-20150806-story.html

Well it's official. The Mistral contract is dead and the warships will not be delivered.

Well done for sticking to your guns France (even amongst the cow towing to the frumpy frau's Putin appeasement blitz)

Unfortunately France has decided to repay Russia. I urge the French not to pay out the contract but either place the money in escrow for compensation to Ukraine in partial reparation for war damage caused by Russia's invasion or edit: turn the funds over to The Hague as seized Russian state assets for dispensation to Yukos shareholders as per the court order....

Russian State Assets Seized in Europe Over Yukos Case

..."Moscow has protested the seizure of Russian government assets in France and Belgium - a move taken to enforce a multi-billion-dollar judgment in a lawsuit filed by shareholders of Yukos, the now-defunct Russian oil company founded by tycoon-turned-dissident Mikhail Khodorkovsky."...

http://www.voanews.com/content/ap-russia-angered-by-freezing-of-accounts-belgium-france/2827948.html

I'm sure the Putin fluffers will try to spin this in a positive light (after insisting for almost a year France would deliver the ships) but the fact is this is a major setback for the arch criminal occupying the Kremlin.

It's a loss of face for Putin and his henchmen and I believe what may be the first of several major economic/military setbacks about to unfold in the months to come.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 06, 2015, 12:09:48 PM
(The Mendeleyev Journa (http://russianreport.wordpress.com/2015/08/06/profiles-of-those-who-have-stayed-in-russia/)l) The title of the article is "Who's Left in Russia? (http://readrussia.com/2015/06/17/whos-left-in-russia/)" and authors Louise Dickson and Sophia Tupolev chronicle the flow of expats who have left Russia in the past year, and profile those who have chosen to stay.

In the article, they write that "Russia’s opportunities for expats are shrinking faster than its economy, it seems. Economic growth is forecast to contract by as much as 5% in 2015, the ruble has depreciated 50% against the dollar, and foreign companies are jettisoning off Russian ventures."

For many expats, staying in Russia has become more difficult. Not only have economic opportunities shrunk, but attitudes towards "outsiders" are hardening. The two observe that "...Russia’s collapsing economy that no longer demands as many Western specialists. Many have left, but some have stayed." The article profiles five expats who share their experience in Moscow’s rapidly changing business landscape.

(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/red-square-rear-8-24-11-moscow-1293-ed.jpg?w=660) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/red-square-rear-8-24-11-moscow-1293-ed.jpg)
(Tourism was far more active in previous years, such as this photo taken by the Mendeleyev Journal at the rear of Red Square in 2011.)

However, it is not only the expat community that is in decline. Tourism is down, especially since the annexation of Crimea. "Since this time last year, 499,000 fewer Westerners lived in, visited, or studied in Russia, or an average net loss of 1,360 per day."

Similar reports by trustworthy sources such as VICE News and Journeyman Pictures show that some regions, such as Crimea, have lost nearly all of the typical tourism trade since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014.

The article is featured in Russia! (http://readrussia.com/2015/06/17/whos-left-in-russia/) magazine. Author Sophia Tupolev contributes to the Mendeleyev Journal on language and culture, and she is the creator of a Russia advice portal, AskSophie! (http://www.asksophie.ru) She also works for RT, and is the creator of Moscow’s Russian Conversation Club. Louise Dickson is a Moscow-based journalist. Follow Louise on Twitter @louisecdickson. (http://twitter.com/louisecdickson)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on August 06, 2015, 12:45:11 PM

Well it's official. The Mistral contract is dead and the warships will not be delivered.

Brass

Excellent. Glad to see that France did not cave in. Who can they sell the warships to? NATO would be my first choice... Or a NATO member. Or Sweden would be interesting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on August 06, 2015, 01:05:21 PM
Switzerland comes to mind.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on August 08, 2015, 10:56:44 AM
Ukraine has stopped supplying critical components to the Russian military machine. Something the Russians have neither the technology or know how to replace.

This means the trickle of newer military equipment the Russians are able to produce is slowed even further.

Ukraine crisis: Why a lack of parts has hamstrung Russia's military

..."Russia's defence firms have been hit not only by Western sanctions but also by a breakdown in business ties with Ukraine."...

..."Last month, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin told parliament that Ukrainian components were used in the production of 186 types of Russian military equipment.

That is a serious problem, he admitted, and Moscow could resolve it only by 2018.

Back in June 2014, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko ordered a halt to military co-operation with Russia - and that has shut down several projects."...

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1504D/production/_84739068_rusantonov.jpg)

..."Ukraine hosts the design bureau of Antonov military transport planes. The economic freeze has blocked plans to deliver a new heavy transport plane, the An-70. And this month, Russia stopped producing another transport plane - the An-140.

In February, Russia closed another programme - Rokot space rockets, which had been putting military satellites into orbit.

The Russian navy has suffered too. It was awaiting three Project 22350 frigates (Admiral Gorshkov-class), but they did not arrive because Ukraine did not deliver the turbines for them."...

..."Communist-era production cycles involved defence plants in several Soviet republics, but they became independent states when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.

Since then, Russia has become dependent on Western electronic components - especially computers, vital for all modern armies."...

..."All Antonov planes have Ukrainian components. Experts say suspension of the An-70 programme will not affect the Russian army much, but the lack of components for An-140 production will be a problem."...

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/8CFD/production/_84739063_rushelicbbc.jpg)


..."Ukraine has also been a key supplier of engine components.

In May, the Ukrainian company Motor-Sich stopped deliveries of helicopter engines for combat helicopters, but continued taking orders for civilian helicopters.

Mr Rogozin said Russia would strive to integrate engine production for the navy and air force, to reduce costs and move away from reliance on Ukrainian and Western equipment.

But a previous Russian attempt to reduce the military's reliance on Ukrainian equipment was only partly successful, Russian military expert Alexander Golts told the BBC."...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33822821

The only way to show the world the true disrepair and (un)preparedness of the Russian military is to call Putin's bluff.

Force Putin to mobilize by conducting a NATO military build up for the purpose of a military intervention in Ukraine. With Russian financial recourses in ruins and his conventional/strategic forces no where near capable of engaging NATO forces with any hope of success Putin will have to back down/withdraw or bankrupt his country's already teetering economy.

Putin's food burning antics are starting to leave a 'bad taste' with an increasingly desperate Russian population. If the West adopt a multi-facaded  strategy of forcing Putin to respond militarily (which costs money) or lose face he won't be able to keep up.

Brass





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on August 08, 2015, 03:49:08 PM
Apparently this analysis comes from The Economist magazine.

Quote
The Soviet Union came apart because it overstretched itself and ran out of money and ideas. Local elites saw no benefit in remaining part of a bankrupt country. It fragmented along the administrative borders of the 15 republics that made up the giant country.

 Yet there was no reason why the process had to stop there. Indeed, many of Russia’s regions—including Siberia, Ural, Karelia and Tatarstan—declared their “sovereignty” at the time. To prevent further disintegration Russia’s then president, Boris Yeltsin, came up with the idea of a federation, promising each region as much “sovereignty as it could swallow”. Yeltsin made this promise in Kazan, the ancient capital of Tatarstan, which acquired many attributes of a separate state: a president, a constitution, a flag and, most important, its own budget. In exchange, Tatarstan promised to stay part of Russia.

Mr Putin has reversed federalism, and turned Russia into a centralised state. He cancelled regional elections, imposed a “presidential” representative over the heads of governors and redistributed tax revenues in Moscow’s favour. But he did not build common institutions. The Russian state is seen not as an upholder of law but as a source of injustice and corruption.

 In the words of Mikhail Iampolski, a historian, Russia at present resembles a khanate in which local princes receive a licence to rule from the chief khan in the Kremlin. For the past decade the main job of the Moscow-appointed governors has been to provide votes for Mr Putin. In exchange they received a share of oil revenues and the right to rule as they see fit. Chechnya under Ramzan Kadyrov, a former warlord installed by Mr Putin, is a grotesque illustration of this. In the most recent presidential election, Chechnya provided 99.7% of its votes for Mr Putin with a turnout of 99.6%. In return, Mr Kadyrov receives subsidies and freedom to subject his people to his own “informal” taxes and Islamic rules. Moscow pays a dictatorial and corrupt Chechnya a vast due in return for Mr Kadyrov pretending to be part of Russia and pledging loyalty to Mr Putin.


If Mr Putin goes and the money runs out, Chechnya could be the first to break off.

 Tatarstan, home to 2m Muslim ethnic Tatars and 1.5m ethnic Russians, could declare itself the separate khanate it was in the 15th century. It has a strong identity, a diverse economy, which includes its own oil firm, and a well-educated ruling class. It would form a special relationship with Crimea, which Crimean Tartars (at last able to claim their historic land) would declare an independent state.


http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/08/could-russia-breakup-after-putin.html

The article goes on to speculate whether the Urals, Siberia, or the Far East might choose to separate from Russia.

My view is that this isn't likely to happen, at least outside Muslim regions of Russia. The people won't clamor for it because almost all of them are at a fever pitch of patriotism and extreme nationalism.  In addition, I can't imagine Putin allowing regions to leave.  He chafes at the many territories that were part of the USSR but seceded at its end. He would use the Russian army to prevent these territories from leaving the Russian Federation, just as Lincoln did to the seceding Southern states in 1861.

As Mao said - All power comes grows out of the barrel of a gun.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 08, 2015, 09:53:15 PM
At some point China will begin to tear off pieces of Russia. Despite all the declarations for cooperation between the two, there is a reason why the Kremlin continues to place great importance to the border troops who guard sections of Siberia and the Far East against the potential for Chinese, and other Asian efforts to regain territory lost to Russia in modern history.

In the news this week is the angst expressed by Russians in the Far East who are crapping in their collective pants over a new war monument that curiously seems to take on the form of the Chinese flag. No surprise--migration, legal and otherwise, from China is booming in the Russian Far East. Much of the now-Russian territory once belonged to China. If Moscow can argue that what once belonged to Russia (Crimea) for a short period in history is somehow then always Russian, then the Chinese can sing that same song all day long in the Russian East.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 08, 2015, 10:20:45 PM
At some point China will begin to tear off pieces of Russia.
Pure speculation, and wishful thinking.  The two nations are for the most part allies, and that bother some I guess. 


I've been hearing for years how California is going to become a part of Mexico because of the literally millions of Mexican migrants here.  That isn't happening either. 


A powerful nuclear nation like Russia isn't losing territory unless it decides to.  China has plenty of space (Ghost cities even), and their mainland population is likely going to shrink in the decades to come, unless they take on swarms from poorer nations. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on August 09, 2015, 01:02:08 AM
Much of the now-Russian territory once belonged to China.

It's not the wishful thinking as fathertime proposed, it's just the zero knowledge of history, Siberian local peoples, China and psychology of the Chinese. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 09, 2015, 02:20:46 AM
Neville, wrong again.

First off, I actually do not desire for China to expand. That they are trading allies is actually quite logical, and one wonders why it took so long although I do understand the prior lack of motivation.

Perhaps you and I have observed different security council discussions, seen different rapid response drills, or something is off with your logic. China has a surprisingly large force in the North. Russia has been modernizing her rapid rail forces in the East, and frankly, unless they are worried about Mongolia, you have no idea what you are writing about.

Have you been to Siberia or the Far East of Russia, Neville?

Sit tight and perhaps you will learn something.

The Russian Federation is divided into federal subjects and federal districts (9). The Far East is part of the Far Eastern Federal Region. It has a population of less than 7 million, yet covers a third of Russia. The capital is Khabarovsk (Хабаровск), in Siberia. It is a popular stop along the Trans Siberian and is less than 32 km/20 miles to the Chinese border. The population is around 560,000. The Chinese name for Khabarovsk, and it was Chinese for a long time, is Boli.

The Khabarovsk Bridge is featured on a Russian ruble note. Without looking, do you know which one it is? Can you name the river?

Of Russia's 9 federal districts, only 3 are in Asia, although some 51% of Russia lies in the Asian continent--there just isn't a lot of population in that great big space. To the south along the Pacific is the Primorsky Krai, (a part of this federal district) of which the Primorsky capital is Vladivostok, with a city population of around 550,000. In the latest attempt to resolve border conflicts, and the two have signed, then renegotiated, then signed a number of treaties, President Putin firmly resisted the Chinese attempts to reclaim Vladivostok. He did the only thing he could--because giving Vladivostok back to China would have cost Russia her largest Pacific trading port and main Pacific naval centre.

However, the Chinese have done two things recently: They have continued to broach the subject of what Bejing terms as "unequal treaties." There are issues which the Chinese feel were not fully resolved in 2008, mainly border agreements which continue to stick in China's mind as being unfair, but necessary, at the time of negotiation.

The other thing that China has done, and it irks Vladimir Putin to no end, is the refusal to recognize Crimea as part of Russia. Why might that be? Simple: If Crimea can separate from Ukraine, then Tibet should logically have the same option to separate from China. China simply cannot applaud a referrundum, even one as flawed as Crimea, without then admitting that Tibet should have the same right.

Mr. Putin on one hand understands this, yet he gave up a lot in negotiations for gas when pivoting to China. Not to mention the fact that no sooner had Russia announced to the world the scope of the deal, China surprised Mosocw by quietly demanding, and getting, a further sweetening of the deal in China's favour. (So much for China's alleged "unequal treaties" theory if you ask me--but that fits in the Eastern worldview.)

Now, lets talk turkey: The GDP of the neighborhood, meaning the region surrounding Vladivostok, including South Korea, China, and Japan, is almost five times greater than the GDP of Russia. However, no matter how affluent the neighborhood, a quarter or more of Russians in the area live below Russia's poverty line. This means that Chinese migration into Russia, and it exists, is not by a lower educated working class seeking unskilled work, but by those with the means to start businesses and to conduct trade across the region. Those who stay are not just living in the shadows, but rather they are folk with ideas for change and improvement. Given the system of economic controls the country normally uses to determine who can, and who cannot operate a business, this type of migration makes the Kremlin nervous, especially since Moscow is so far away.

Khabarovsk and Vladivostok are regional border cities (combined population just over a million), yet when you look at the main Chinese provinces to the south, the population is almost 120 million--just in those border provinces. You still believe that China has no interest in expansion?

The main form of "control" at the moment is the visa regime. Chinese citizens traveling to Russia need a visa, and while crossing is not overly difficult, visa violations are costly. Often immigrants from the Central Asian republics, who can enter without a visa, are mistaken for being Chinese.

Like Russia and India, Russia and China merely have a marriage of convenience, and their long history proves that these bonds are easily broken or changed depending on circumstances. At heart, ethnic Russians trust neither dark skinned Indians, nor slant-eyed Chinese. There are times however when you dance with whoever is willing--until something more interesting comes along.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 09, 2015, 03:44:31 AM
Apparently this analysis comes from The Economist magazine.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/08/could-russia-breakup-after-putin.html

The article goes on to speculate whether the Urals, Siberia, or the Far East might choose to separate from Russia.

My view is that this isn't likely to happen, at least outside Muslim regions of Russia. The people won't clamor for it because almost all of them are at a fever pitch of patriotism and extreme nationalism.  In addition, I can't imagine Putin allowing regions to leave.  He chafes at the many territories that were part of the USSR but seceded at its end. He would use the Russian army to prevent these territories from leaving the Russian Federation, just as Lincoln did to the seceding Southern states in 1861.

As Mao said - All power comes grows out of the barrel of a gun.

Not to sure that it will not happen-- Putin has created the litmus for the process.I definately do not agree that there is no dissent or desire to be free of Moscow.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine was the start of the end-- and it is all Putin & Kremlin craziness that has created the situation.A military defeat in Ukraine will precipitate a general move to get rid of Moscow for many Russian "citizens" !
AS I HAVE SAID TIME AFTER TIME, THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

The Russian economy is in dire shape ever since Western countries imposed economic sanctions over its annexation of Crimea. The exit of Chechnya will have a huge impact on neighboring Dagestan. It could be followed by Tatarstan declaring itself an independent Khanate. Siberia could revive its own sovereignty, while the Ural could form a republic.

Putin has reversed federalism in Russia
The Soviet Union collapsed because it had overstretched itself and run out of money. The local leaders saw no benefit in being part of a bankrupt nation. Many regions such as Tatarstan, Siberia and Ural had declared their "sovereignty" at the time. But the then Russian President Boris Yeltsin promised these regions "as much sovereignty as they could swallow" in exchange for staying with the Russian Federation.

However, Vladimir Putin has reversed federalism in Russia, turning it into a centralized state. He has imposed "presidential" representatives for each region, eliminated regional elections, and changed the way tax revenues are distributed in Moscow's favor. In short, Russia of today is like a Khanate where local representatives have been given a license to rule by the chief Khan in the Kremlin.


 
The primary job of the Kremlin-appointed presidential representatives is to bring votes for Vladimir Putin. In exchange, they are granted freedom to rule the way they want, plus a share of oil revenues. Vyacheslav Volodin, Putin's deputy chief of staff, recently said, "No Putin, no Russia." If Putin goes out and Russia runs out of money, Chechnya would be the first to break off, says The Economist.
http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/08/russia-under-putin-to-break-up/

Podcast: Russia's Fragile Federation

It's the Kremlin's worst nightmare. That the Russian Federation shares the fate of the Soviet Union and disintegrates.

Far-fetched? Yeah, probably. But the fear appears to be honestly felt.

And as calls for regional autonomy get louder and bolder -- from Kaliningrad to Siberia, from Karelia to Tatarstan -- Vladimir Putin's regime has moved to further tighten the screws. And this is only serving to spark more resentment in the regions.

Are the Kremlin's fears of federalism making its biggest fear more likely?

On the latest Power Vertical Podcast, we discuss Russia's fragile federation. Joining me are co-host Mark Galeotti, a professor at New York University, an expert on Russia's security services, and author of the blog In Moscow's Shadows; and longtime Russia-watcher Paul Goble, author of the blog Window on Eurasia.

http://www.rferl.org/content/russian-television-whistleblowers-kremlin-propaganda/27178109.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2015, 07:03:31 AM






In the news this week is the angst expressed by Russians in the Far East who are crapping in their collective pants over a new war monument that curiously seems to take on the form of the Chinese flag. 


Neville, wrong again.

First off, I actually do not desire for China to expand. 


I don't believe you.  You do want China to expand into Russia, or you wouldn't have phrased your post the way you did.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on August 09, 2015, 10:11:35 AM
I see Mendy's post as much more than a Chinese desire for 'The Northern Resource Area'.  His talking points relate to the bigger questions about the pressures on the current administration and the point of view of the Russian leadership.  It has nothing to do with desire to see Russia break apart. 

I have read Mendy's work for a couple of years now.  No one, of the Western ilk, loves Russia more than Mendy.  But he is an honest journalist. A rare occurrence in Russia these days.

As we see more and more of the Kremlin control of the press, men of courage, like Mendy, stand out from the crowd.  Don't stand out too much, Mendy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 09, 2015, 01:20:21 PM
Quote
I don't believe you.  You do want China to expand into Russia, or you wouldn't have phrased your post the way you did.

I have noticed that you failed to answer my questions, again a demonstration of you willingness to expel hot air opinions, but from a position of ignorance. That seems to be your avatar.

A few years back, and I wrote about it then, I was among a handful of journalists who traveled with then-president Medvedev to China. We made that trip via rail. Prime Minister Medvedev is an avid photographer and he spent a lot of time among the press pool that made the journey. If you cannot fall in love with Siberia and the Far East on a train, then you simply will never love that part of the world.

The elderly friend who was my sponsor/godfather when I entered the Orthodox Church had grown up in a region which had historically been Chinese, then the area was part of Russia, and later was ceded to China after conflict along the border between China and the Soviet Union. One cannot have these sort of ties to just wishfully hope that conflict arises and borderlines change again.

Both Putin and Medvedev have extensive experience with China. Both understand that China needs energy resources, something it lacks at the moment--thus the pipeline to China, from the very area that China covets. If you ask Medvedev, and he and Putin are close, the Kremlin understands that they are building a pipeline that could someday be in jeopardy should China have intentions on the area. The ramp up of Russia's rail response units, and the building of bases with air support capability, is not being done because Russia is nervous about North Korea or Mongolia.

Simpletons sometimes argue that China is rarely the aggressor, and that China would never covet something that they used to own. Tell that to Mr. Putin--he is not taking any chances. What he does most assuredly understand is that China is very patient, and the Chinese tend to act in their own interests when the time is right, not before. Russia's modernization of the Far East and her defense of the region is designed to make the Chinese realize that the time will never be right. However, the Chinese also understand that all the preparations in the world cannot negate situations of massive economic and/or political instability.

Now Neville, have you done your homework? I'd like to see your answers on the name of that great river, and the denomination of ruble with the picture of the bridge. If you know nothing about an area, then please refrain from sharing unfounded analysis about it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2015, 03:12:40 PM
I have noticed that you failed to answer my questions, again a demonstration of you willingness to expel hot air opinions, but from a position of ignorance. That seems to be your avatar.

A few years back, and I wrote about it then, I was among a handful of journalists who traveled with then-president Medvedev to China. We made that trip via rail. Prime Minister Medvedev is an avid photographer and he spent a lot of time among the press pool that made the journey. If you cannot fall in love with Siberia and the Far East on a train, then you simply will never love that part of the world.

The elderly friend who was my sponsor/godfather when I entered the Orthodox Church had grown up in a region which had historically been Chinese, then the area was part of Russia, and later was ceded to China after conflict along the border between China and the Soviet Union. One cannot have these sort of ties to just wishfully hope that conflict arises and borderlines change again.

Both Putin and Medvedev have extensive experience with China. Both understand that China needs energy resources, something it lacks at the moment--thus the pipeline to China, from the very area that China covets. If you ask Medvedev, and he and Putin are close, the Kremlin understands that they are building a pipeline that could someday be in jeopardy should China have intentions on the area. The ramp up of Russia's rail response units, and the building of bases with air support capability, is not being done because Russia is nervous about North Korea or Mongolia.

Simpletons sometimes argue that China is rarely the aggressor, and that China would never covet something that they used to own. Tell that to Mr. Putin--he is not taking any chances. What he does most assuredly understand is that China is very patient, and the Chinese tend to act in their own interests when the time is right, not before. Russia's modernization of the Far East and her defense of the region is designed to make the Chinese realize that the time will never be right. However, the Chinese also understand that all the preparations in the world cannot negate situations of massive economic and/or political instability.

Now Neville, have you done your homework? I'd like to see your answers on the name of that great river, and the denomination of ruble with the picture of the bridge. If you know nothing about an area, then please refrain from sharing unfounded analysis about it.


I'm under NO obligation to answer your silly questions, nor am I interested in doing so.  Based on the manner in which you wrote earlier, I continue to believe that YOU would be happy to see China attempt to seize land from Russia.  Despite what I believe are your hopes, I don't think that is going to happen.  If you want to disguise your true feelings on the matter, you are free to continue to do so. It seems to me that the nations are aligned for the most part, regardless I did read, and appreciate your history lesson on the region.  China is not going to risk war with a powerful nation like Russia, war is NOT how they better their station.   


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on August 09, 2015, 04:48:12 PM
Pure speculation, and wishful thinking.  The two nations are for the most part allies, and that bother some I guess. 


I've been hearing for years how California is going to become a part of Mexico because of the literally millions of Mexican migrants here.  That isn't happening either. 


A powerful nuclear nation like Russia isn't losing territory unless it decides to.  China has plenty of space (Ghost cities even), and their mainland population is likely going to shrink in the decades to come, unless they take on swarms from poorer nations. 


Fathertime!   


I'm under NO obligation to answer your silly questions, nor am I interested in doing so.  Based on the manner in which you wrote earlier, I continue to believe that YOU would be happy to see China attempt to seize land from Russia.  Despite what I believe are your hopes, I don't think that is going to happen.  If you want to disguise your true feelings on the matter, you are free to continue to do so. It seems to me that the nations are aligned for the most part, regardless I did read, and appreciate your history lesson on the region.  China is not going to risk war with a powerful nation like Russia, war is NOT how they better their station.   


Fathertime!

Why is it, FT, that every time I read one of Mendy's posts (and I do look forward to reading his posts it's great to get an informed, first hand observation/opinion from someone who knows what their talking about) I end up seeing one of your boneheaded, ill informed comments in response right below it?

Please don't post you have the right to comment where you like and it's your opinion blah, blah ,blah. When you follow mendy around the board posting nonsense such as your quotes above, it's my humble opinion your simply trolling.

Stop it. You're letting yourself down.

Better yet, actually read what Mendy's offering instead of posting your knee jerk dissent and putting your ignorance on display. You might just learn something.  ;)

Brass

 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2015, 05:46:08 PM
Why is it, FT, that every time I read one of Mendy's posts (and I do look forward to reading his posts it's great to get an informed, first hand observation/opinion from someone who knows what their talking about) I end up seeing one of your boneheaded, ill informed comments in response right below it?



You are full of crap on this one.   :-*


You can check for yourself, but I rarely respond to Mendy's posts, but I did this time, and make no apologies for doing so. 


He is a journalist, and knows how to convey thoughts through the written word.  When he states the Russian's are 'crapping themselves' he is showing his bias.  Had he merely said, the 'Russians were concerned' I would have passed it right over, like I do most other posts.  I see no harm in pointing out a somewhat cloaked, yet biased viewpoint when I see it.  If your political viewpoint were different, instead of soiling yourself, you might be ok with it.


Oh, and yeah, I have the right to dissent, even if only a few agree with it, and it is ok with me if I'm a troll in your eyes.   Through your posts I can tell you are extremely self-righteous, and hard-headed, but I don't hold that against you, as you have every right to be how you choose to be and you might consider those traits to be of strong character.     ;)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on August 09, 2015, 06:28:59 PM
Quite honestly, I see the Kremlin as crapping their pants right now.  I wish it weren't the case.  But this entire posturing of belligerence is one of desperation.  (I might not have used that specific phraseology.)

Regardless of the origins, I see the whole Maidan uprising as a wrench in Putin's plan for the resurgence of Russia and all policies coming after that watershed event are knee jerk to try to regain control over 'his' satellite countries. 

I would very much like Russia to accept the status quo and go back to open trade with the Western countries.  You don't fly your jets on the doorstep of your neighbors and expect them to welcome you to the trade table.  To most Europeans and Americans, that is how the Kremlin is viewed currently... belligerent.

Mendy is spot on in his assessment of the greater game being played.  China would like to recover some of the land.  So that land will always require greater attention and support to keep it in Russia's domain.  It is one more cross that Putin's government has to carry.  There are HUGE forces at play.  Enough to topple a government.  Russia knows this.  That is the cause of the emergence of the military state and the elimination of the free press.

Should Russia go through a Maidan type event, I would not put it past the Chinese, in areas China influences, to attempt to influence the local population to attempt a separation from Russia.

Earlier Fathertime used the absolutely inappropriate analogy of California becoming part of Mexico.  I would instead use a closer analogy of Saipan returning to Japan's control.  While the residents of Saipan are United States citizens, prior to WWII, Saipan was awarded to Japan by the League of Nations. 

An interesting note:  After WWII, the US repatriated all of the Japanese citizens to Japan so there would not be a local uprising.   The native islanders who originally lived there currently make up the great majority of the population.  But I do find it interesting that the US used the same tactics that are criticized when executed by Russia in areas it seizes through war.  I guess the difference is the elimination/removal of the local population, like was done in Koenigsberg.

Dollars to Rubles today:  1 Dollar equals 64 Russian Rubles.
Brent Crude Price of Oil:  48.39 and heading South

Let's see some more foreign food imports get crushed by those bulldozers!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2015, 06:58:25 PM


Dollars to Rubles today:  1 Dollar equals 64 Russian Rubles.
Brent Crude Price of Oil:  48.39 and heading South



What has been heading south is our stock market...lost 1000 points in last couple months. That equates to over 1 trillion in losses.     That said, the dollar is at all time highs against many currencies, including the Colombian Peso, which benefits me directly.  We shall see if indeed the fed raises interest rates in September (Perhaps December). as is slated, if not then the dollar will likely take a dive. 


Not sure that oil is going too much lower though, major US oil companies like Chevron are now barely making a profit, and are actually losing money after dividends are paid, that isn't sustainable for very long. 
   

I would very much like Russia to accept the status quo and go back to open trade with the Western countries.  You don't fly your jets on the doorstep of your neighbors and expect them to welcome you to the trade table.  To most Europeans and Americans, that is how the Kremlin is viewed currently... belligerent.

You have isolated one fact, and placed it in a vacuum, there are many other hostile acts to be considered.  Certain European nations, and Americans don't constitute the world, and may not be as important to Russia going forward.


   There are HUGE forces at play.  Enough to topple a government.  Russia knows this.  That is the cause of the emergence of the military state and the elimination of the free press.
 
[/size][size=78%]  [/size]
[/size]From many groups, we have been hearing about how our own govt. is close to toppling.  I don't see the signs that either Russia or the US are close to being toppled. [size=78%][/size] [size=78%]

An interesting note:  After WWII, the US repatriated all of the Japanese citizens to Japan so there would not be a local uprising.   The native islanders who originally lived there currently make up the great majority of the population.  But I do find it interesting that the US used the same tactics that are criticized when executed by Russia in areas it seizes through war.  I guess the difference is the elimination/removal of the local population, like was done in Koenigsberg.
It is more than just interesting, and I wouldn't blame other nations for thumbing their collective noses at us, the hypocrisy and word-smithing to make things legal is astounding. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on August 09, 2015, 07:14:46 PM
Price per barrel of oil:  48.38. 

Price per gallon of Gasoline in California:   $3.50 (average)

You say that the oil companies aren't making a profit?   What are you thinking? 

If the oil companies can't make a profit when the cost of crude is this low and the cost at the pump is this high, then someone is not telling the truth.

And don't give me mumbo jumbo about the cost of extraction.  Oil will self-correct when the cost of extraction becomes too high compared to the price of oil.  As for now, we haven't even seen the Iranian reserves hit the market.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2015, 07:35:44 PM
Price per barrel of oil:  48.38. 

Price per gallon of Gasoline in California:   $3.50 (average)

You say that the oil companies aren't making a profit?   What are you thinking? 

If the oil companies can't make a profit when the cost of crude is this low and the cost at the pump is this high, then someone is not telling the truth.

And don't give me mumbo jumbo about the cost of extraction.  Oil will self-correct when the cost of extraction becomes too high compared to the price of oil.  As for now, we haven't even seen the Iranian reserves hit the market.


That is a bit of a populist sound bite there.  I don't like the gasoline price here the same as you, I was over the border this weekend, and the price was significantly less out of California, with our expensive, but needed pollution controls.   That said, Chevron's profit was down 90% last quarter, it really was, and their stock price shows it. They have the financial reserves to withstand it, for now, but not for too much longer. They could cut the dividend for the first time in 27 years, (and face an even larger selloff) or they can find another way to cut costs, but neither option is good.   


Regarding US oil companies and Iran, our companies will have VERY limited opportunity in Iran compared to European companies, since US sanction relief is very limited.     From my perspective, that is the worst part of the Iran deal. 


The overall point being, in many respects, we are shooting ourselves in the foot. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 09, 2015, 09:21:13 PM
Funny ( not laughing funny) to read some ideas and comments made in this forum previously now appearing in mainstream media! It makes you wonder where the material comes from for some journalists!!
The collapse of the Russian economy is now not an "IF"-- but a "WHEN"!! And most importantly--the immediate aftermath of that collapse.
Article deals with the immediate situation for the Russia and what is required to extract itself from the Putin/Kremlin created situation. It It is amazing to see how many are now writing on the same themes-- and the degree of the failure of the Kremlin disinformation internationally .
 
Once sanctions are lifted there will probably be a large influx of foreign money, especially if a new government provides strong guarantees for investors. But before it can achieve this, Russia will need, as an absolute minimum, to end support for terrorists in Eastern Ukraine, stop sending weapons, ammunition and fighters there and allow Kyiv to dismantle the self-proclaimed People’s Republics on its territory. Additionally, it will probably have to abandon the Transdniester region, its toy enclave in Moldova.

Another minimum prerequisite will be to recognize that the annexation of Crimea was a violation of international laws and to agree with Kyiv on a timetable fo its rapid return to Ukraine.

Once it admits its culpability, however, Moscow will have to pay compensation to Ukraine.

Even after sanctions are lifted, it doesn’t mean that Russia will be welcomed by the community of civilized nations with open arms. There are ongoing issues which neither Barack Obama nor Angela Merkel can resolve. There is a Hague Court verdict requiring the Russian government to pay $50 billion to foreign shareholders of Yukos, whom it swindled. The UK police inquiry into the 2006 death of ex-KGB officer Alexander Litvinenko laid the blame for his poisoning on high-level Russian government officials going all the way up to Putin. Finally, whatever form the investigation into the downing of the Malaysian airliner over Donbass will take, it is likely to find either Russian-backed separatists or Russia itself guilty.

Post-Putin Russia will need to accept verdicts in all these crimes, recognize its responsibility and agree to pay enormous financial compensation. It will have to ask for a delay given the sorry state of the Russian economy..

This is a tall order, to say the least. The Russian people are not ready to accept any of this, especially after enduring relentless barrage of Putin propaganda about insidious Westerners trying to enslave innocent, peace-loving Russia and steal its oil, territory and history. It almost seems inevitable that Russia will have to go through a devastating economic crisis and national soul-searching before it could shed its pariah status.



Russian economy's point of no return

Russia's economy is like a passenger airliner on a trans-Atlantic flight which has lost one engine and has the other sputtering to a halt. It generates enough speed to go on gliding, and the height of 33,000 feet affords its passengers an illusion of safety. There is still enough time to serve dinner and to finish the movie before the plane inevitably crashes to earth.

During the fat years between mid-2010 and mid-2014, when international oil prices averaged over $100 per barrel, Russia accumulated plenty of reserves. The Russian middle class also has quite a few rubles - and, importantly, dollars and euros - saved up, which permit them not to curb their consumption more drastically. This is the equivalent of the 33,000 feet of height from which the aircraft of the Russian economy has been gliding down.

A major factor delaying the onset of the crisis is the relative calm of the Russian population. A large proportion of Russian consumers trust Putin because they believe that he engineered the boom they have been enjoying since 2000, not realizing that their prosperity is directly correlated to the price of oil. The two most recent economic crises in Russia, in 1998 and again in 2008, were quite acute but remarkably short-lived. Russians think that this crisis, too, as Putin assured them at the end of 2014, won’t last for more than two years, and that Russia has the resources to tough it out. And so there is no rush for the exists on this particular airplane - i.e., people don’t stampede to buy foreign currency or to withdraw their savings from banks.

http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/alexei-bayer-russian-economys-point-of-no-return-395336.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on August 09, 2015, 09:44:36 PM

That is a bit of a populist sound bite there.  I don't like the gasoline price here the same as you, I was over the border this weekend, and the price was significantly less out of California, with our expensive, but needed pollution controls.   That said, Chevron's profit was down 90% last quarter, it really was, and their stock price shows it. They have the financial reserves to withstand it, for now, but not for too much longer. They could cut the dividend for the first time in 27 years, (and face an even larger selloff) or they can find another way to cut costs, but neither option is good.   


Regarding US oil companies and Iran, our companies will have VERY limited opportunity in Iran compared to European companies, since US sanction relief is very limited.     From my perspective, that is the worst part of the Iran deal. 


The overall point being, in many respects, we are shooting ourselves in the foot. 


Fathertime!

You have to understand how ridiculous you sound.  Chevron can claim they are bankrupt but it wouldn't dissuade people from seeing the cost of raw materials versus the cost at the pump.  For your information, California pollution controls in the form of taxes are only $.39 per gallon.  That would make the base price at $3.11.

For those reading this, it is an old business trick to show slumping profits by write offs in a time of prosperity.  Great time to write off drilling expenses, fracking, new development, and maintaining infrastructure while buying cheap overseas oil. 

The simple fact is that Chevron is getting their sweet crude at under $50.00 per barrel.  Which equals out to be about 42 gallons. 

Now Chevron may have terrible business management (I rather doubt it) but I would be interested if anyone other than you believes that Chevron is approaching insolvency because the price of oil is so low.

Go sell your ideas to people that are stupid enough to believe them.  I do not believe in 'Populist' ideas.  Like most people here, I simply look at reality.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2015, 10:16:05 PM
You have to understand how ridiculous you sound.  Chevron can claim they are bankrupt but it wouldn't dissuade people from seeing the cost of raw materials versus the cost at the pump.  For your information, California pollution controls in the form of taxes are only $.39 per gallon.  That would make the base price at $3.11.

For those reading this, it is an old business trick to show slumping profits by write offs in a time of prosperity.  Great time to write off drilling expenses, fracking, new development, and maintaining infrastructure while buying cheap overseas oil. 

The simple fact is that Chevron is getting their sweet crude at under $50.00 per barrel.  Which equals out to be about 42 gallons. 

Now Chevron may have terrible business management (I rather doubt it) but I would be interested if anyone other than you believes that Chevron is approaching insolvency because the price of oil is so low.

Go sell your ideas to people that are stupid enough to believe them.  I do not believe in 'Populist' ideas.  Like most people here, I simply look at reality.


I believe you are a bit ignorant about Chevron and gasoline in general.  It has been sold off by people in the know, they aren't doing it because they think the company is doing well. 


You are of course exaggerating what I said.  Where did I say insolvency?  Not even close, but they are technically losing money after dividends this quarter.  Of course there are some tax ramifications, but these are not prosperous times, and it is foolish to think they are.  If it were merely 'business trickery' as you said, then why would the stock be selling off so drastically, relative to the overall market? Other US oil stocks and pipeline stocks are also nosediving, I was just using Chevron as an example as I'm most familiar with the details.  It is a fact that our US companies are also suffering due to some of the geopolitical events in the world. 


.  For your information, California pollution controls in the form of taxes are only $.39 per gallon.  That would make the base price at $3.11.

 
For your edification, it was foolish for you to post an incorrect number like that.  The base price is NOT 3.11, and taxes per gallon are much more than .39 cents in California, even after a recent state decrease.    Do I need to post links to drive the point home? In addition you forgot to account for the 'special fuel formula' the few refineries we have, use.  3.11 was the most simplistic and inaccurate number you could come up with.   


  I simply look at reality.
No you don't.  You slant reality to fit a defective narrative, and may not even recognize you do it. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on August 09, 2015, 10:22:45 PM
http://www.californiagasprices.com/tax_info.aspx

http://www.californiagasprices.com/Prices_Nationally.aspx

 :rolleyes2:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 09, 2015, 10:37:46 PM
More on the basis of collapse of Russian economy.Putins attempts to use energy to control the politics is an abject failure-- a year ago we still had to listen to the Putin rationalisers telling us that Russia had all the control--but a short year later the Norwegian gas streams are growing all the time--and will be capable of replacing Russia in the not too distant future.
The price of oil and gas is being driven lower still-- and Putin is nearly out of time.
FWIW-recently in a thread comment was made quoting Russian source that cash reserve was about $350 B -- about half of what was claimed prior to Russian invasion of Ukraine -- I do not believe anything like that is left-maybe  only a 1/3rd or less.That puts Russia on the knife edge in the here and now-- and that all points to this crisis deepening for Russia very soon.
I do not expect Putin to handle any of this rationally- the west must prepare for that in the military sense.It may well be Ukraine that will bare the brunt of future Putin idiocy.

How Russian energy giant Gazprom lost $300bn
Once the state-run conglomerate was expected to become the world’s first trillion-dollar company. Now its market value has plummeted. EurasiaNet investigates how this happened

Gas politics
The Kremlin, which holds a controlling stake in Gazprom, tends to blame the sharp drop in oil prices and “warm winters”. However, energy giants ExxonMobil and Petro China, Gazprom’s financial contemporaries back in mid-2008, have remained top performers. Norway boosted its market share and overtook Russia as western Europe’s top gas supplier over the 2014-2015 winter.

Experts say Gazprom’s main problem is that it continues to serve as Putin’s favoured geopolitical weapon. Examples include the company’s purchase of major Russian media outlets that were then turned into Kremlin mouthpieces, bullying or buying the loyalty of neighbouring states and sponsoring the egregiously expensive Olympic Games in Sochi.

Most ominously for the company, the Putin administration still keeps pushing Gazprom to implement new projects that are important for the Kremlin but risky from a financial viewpoint. Two prominent examples concern Ukraine and China.

The conflict in eastern Ukraine has cost Gazprom dearly. Exports to Ukraine fell from 36 billion cubic metres in 2010 to 3.7 during the first six months of 2015, before stopping altogether on July 1. Moscow’s efforts to effectively mount an energy blockade against Kiev did not work but cost Gazprom close to $6bn in lost revenue and fines, while pushing European customers to diversity their energy imports.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/07/gazprom-oil-company-share-price-collapse?CMP=share_btn_fb

Russia: Gazprom, A Behemoth No More

This article was originally published by Eurasianet.org.

It was not too long ago that Gazprom, the state-controlled energy conglomerate, was one of the Kremlin’s most potent geopolitical weapons. But those days now seem like a distant memory: Gazprom is a financial shadow of its former self.

The speed of Gazprom’s decline is breathtaking. At its peak in May 2008, the company’s market capitalization reached $367.27 billion, making it one of the world’s most valuable companies, according to a survey compiled by the Financial Times. Gazprom’s deputy chair, Alexander Medvedev, repeatedly predicted at the time that within a decade the Russian energy giant could be worth $1 trillion.

That prediction now seems foolhardy. Since 2008, Gazprom’s value has plummeted. As of Aug. 3, it had a market capitalization of $51.12 billion. A little over four years ago, in April 2011, the figure stood at $194.5 billion. No company among the planet’s Top 5,000 has suffered a bigger collapse in market capitalization, according to Bloomberg Business News.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/business/article/russia-gazprom-a-behemoth-no-more/526989.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2015, 11:01:33 PM

[size=78%] [/size][/size]
You have to understand how ridiculous you sound.  Chevron can claim they are bankrupt but it wouldn't dissuade people from seeing the cost of raw materials versus the cost at the pump.  For your information, California pollution controls in the form of taxes are only $.39 per gallon.  That would make the base price at $3.11.

[/size]
[/size][size=78%] [/size]
[/size]The gas buddy link is not useful in terms of detail.  [size=78%]

[/size]I don't expect you to be intellectually honest, as I get that you are a little too invested in being 'right' about how much profit oil companies are making at this time.    [size=78%]

[/size]Here is a friendly link discussing the hidden gas taxes in California, when all is tallied up, amount to around 75 cents a gallon.  Although some people estimate the hidden gas taxes alone adds 75 cents MORE a gallon....that seems too high.  [size=78%]

[/size]Regardless your 3.11 base price is way off.  [size=78%]

[/size]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwUnmrtjPSc[size=78%]






[/size]





 


 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on August 09, 2015, 11:22:39 PM
[size=78%] [/size][/size][/size][size=78%] [/size]
[/size]The gas buddy link is not useful in terms of detail.  [size=78%]

[/size]I don't expect you to be intellectually honest, as I get that you are a little too invested in being 'right' about how much profit oil companies are making at this time.    [size=78%]

[/size]Here is a friendly link discussing the hidden gas taxes in California, when all is tallied up, amount to around 75 cents a gallon.  Although some people estimate the hidden gas taxes alone adds 75 cents MORE a gallon....that seems too high.  [size=78%]

[/size]Regardless your 3.11 base price is way off.  [size=78%]

[/size]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwUnmrtjPSc[size=78%]






[/size]

Who in the world cares?  You're trying to decide how much the gas tax is.  The simple fact is that Chevron is paying X for the oil.  It costs them Y to produce the gasoline.  When the price of X goes down and the price remains the same, you have absolutely no basis for an argument that they are going broke. 

Talk about drinking the Kool Aid.  Everyone but you knows the truth.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 09, 2015, 11:32:44 PM
Who in the world cares?  You're trying to decide how much the gas tax is.  The simple fact is that Chevron is paying X for the oil.  It costs them Y to produce the gasoline.  When the price of X goes down and the price remains the same, you have absolutely no basis for an argument that they are going broke. 

Talk about drinking the Kool Aid.  Everyone but you knows the truth.


You are once again exaggerating what I said when you use the term going broke.  They are currently losing money, and it is likely a result of geopolitical events.  They will not go broke, because they can do things to ensure that won't happen, like cut their dividend, or lay off employees, or raise their profit margins...all harmful things for the American public. 


It is ok if you don't want to talk anymore, it can be a boring subject.  I was merely making a point regarding Chevron's OVERALL profitability, which entails more than California, and much more than just the price of extraction, and taxes.  Chevron and other oil companies are among the companies suffering from geopolitical events, and that can and, will have ramifications on regular Americans, including me. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on August 10, 2015, 01:29:01 AM

I'm under NO obligation to answer your silly questions, nor am I interested in doing so. 

Easier just to say to Mendy you don't know the answers to his questions, rather than trying to keep up this façade...
 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 10, 2015, 02:50:49 AM
Neville:
Quote
When he states the Russian's are 'crapping themselves' he is showing his bias.

As a member of this forum, which is not a widely read journalistic publication but rather a forum about life in regards to the FSU, I showed bias for Russia when it came to the Syrian question, and took a lot of flak for it--including from some members here. I was proud as a resident, not only as a working journalist, who traveled with the press pool to Vladivostok in the autumn of 2013 as Mr. Putin toured flooded regions, then the next week to the G20 Summit in St Petersburg where again on forums like this I defended Mr. Putin over his public disagreements with USA president Obama.

I'll let you know when it is no longer appropriate for a professional to have formed views based on experience and first-hand knowledge. I have editors who have eyes like hawks when it comes to spotting bias in official venues.

Now, back to the discussion at hand--were you to see and hear the regional reaction, you might say the same thing.  It is silly to watch, because like you I do not believe that the Chinese are ready (at this time) for a fight over land. But come with me to Okhotniy Ryad, #1, in Moscow. Inside the Duma (Parliament) building, you can see plenty of "crapping themselves" examples over the design of that war monument in the Far East.

Only the naive would declare that the Chinese will never go to war with a nuclear nation over land. They already dared to fight a nuclear country called the Soviet Union in 1969, and it came close to a full scale war before both sat down at the negotiating table. A calculated gamble, but also a risk that could have been taken much further.

The two nations experienced smaller "expressions of disagreement" again in 1991, 1995, 2003 and 2008. Each small regional crisis was initiated by China, and each resulted in further negotiations which China used to chip away at regaining lost territory. Are you willing to bet that they are tired?

If you think that Putin isn't concerned, then please feel free to let him know that his efforts at border security, rail response forces, and facilities for air support in the region are not necessary. I am certain that he'd rather be spending the money on other issues. Undoubtedly he's looking forward to hearing from you.

It is a balancing act for the Kremlin. On one hand, there are concerns about loss of sovereignty. On the other, there was Putin's decree that made Vladivostok a "free port" last month in hopes of attracting additional outside investment, and in particular from Japan and South Korea as a counter balance to growing Chinese influence.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 10, 2015, 06:39:37 AM


I'll let you know when it is no longer appropriate for a professional to have formed views based on experience and first-hand knowledge. I have editors who have eyes like hawks when it comes to spotting bias in official venues.

 


So NOW you are admitting bias, which is what I was noting in your initial post.   



Now, back to the discussion at hand--were you to see and hear the regional reaction, you might say the same thing.  It is silly to watch, because like you I do not believe that the Chinese are ready (at this time) for a fight over land. But come with me to Okhotniy Ryad, #1, in Moscow. Inside the Duma (Parliament) building, you can see plenty of "crapping themselves" examples over the design of that war monument in the Far East.

Only the naive would declare that the Chinese will never go to war with a nuclear nation over land. They already dared to fight a nuclear country called the Soviet Union in 1969, and it came close to a full scale war before both sat down at the negotiating table. A calculated gamble, but also a risk that could have been taken much further.

The two nations experienced smaller "expressions of disagreement" again in 1991, 1995, 2003 and 2008. Each small regional crisis was initiated by China, and each resulted in further negotiations which China used to chip away at regaining lost territory. Are you willing to bet that they are tired?

If you think that Putin isn't concerned, then please feel free to let him know that his efforts at border security, rail response forces, and facilities for air support in the region are not necessary. I am certain that he'd rather be spending the money on other issues. Undoubtedly he's looking forward to hearing from you.

It is a balancing act for the Kremlin. On one hand, there are concerns about loss of sovereignty. On the other, there was Putin's decree that made Vladivostok a "free port" last month in hopes of attracting additional outside investment, and in particular from Japan and South Korea as a counter balance to growing Chinese influence.


As to the Chinese and Russia getting into a war over land, that sounds like the Western nations would like to see and not at all likely to happen. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Rick4G on August 10, 2015, 06:59:53 AM
In regards to China, 2 things are undeniable as fact.  China has increased the amount of its citizens in Russia's far east by over a million in just the past 3 years alone and these Chinese are the ones with the money to influence the economy of the region.
China controls and has all the bargaining power in virtually any agreement with Russia.
China is replacing Russian military components with Ukrainian in has decreased its dependence on Russian made equipment and components by 50% in the past 5 years.
Russia doesn't have many options and the Kremlin is painfully aware of that!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 10, 2015, 10:23:24 AM
Quote
So NOW you are admitting bias, which is what I was noting in your initial post. 

As to Syria, and to Mr. Putin vs Obama in 2013, yes I did.

As to the current topic of which you are painfully ignorant--hell no. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on August 10, 2015, 10:37:50 AM

You are full of crap on this one.   :-*

Having checked, I'll withdraw the comment...and amend it to It seems every time I read...

You can check for yourself, but I rarely respond to Mendy's posts, but I did this time, and make no apologies for doing so. 

Well when you do reply to his (anyone's) posts try and have a bit more than contemptuous quips in response. You just don't hold the bonafides to castigate anything Mendy might post as personal bias.

He is a journalist, and knows how to convey thoughts through the written word.  When he states the Russian's are 'crapping themselves' he is showing his bias.  Had he merely said, the 'Russians were concerned' I would have passed it right over, like I do most other posts.  I see no harm in pointing out a somewhat cloaked, yet biased viewpoint when I see it.  If your political viewpoint were different, instead of soiling yourself, you might be ok with it.

Nope, I wouldn't be ok with it. I recognize muddying a topic with white noise when I see it.

Your idea of bias seems to include anything that critiques the Russians. I, for one, view Mendy's narratives as succinct and to the point. On the other hand I view your comments for the most part as insolent and not based on fact/truth.

You should probably stick to trying to discredit posters like myself. You might get more traction.   

Oh, and yeah, I have the right to dissent, even if only a few agree with it, and it is ok with me if I'm a troll in your eyes.   Through your posts I can tell you are extremely self-righteous, and hard-headed, but I don't hold that against you, as you have every right to be how you choose to be and you might consider those traits to be of strong character.     ;)

"Pure speculation, and wishful thinking." or "I'm under NO obligation to answer your silly questions, nor am I interested in doing so." is not dissent. It's just pestering another member trying to get his point across that you have no real argument to parry or knowledge to add. You simply don't like the fact his comments are accurate so you muddy the water under the pretext of bias.

Here's the thing; If you studied, travelled, worked and resided in Russia/FSU for as many years as Mendy you might have a leg to stand on attempting to hassle him with your nonsensical observations/comments. As it stands you don't.

Well, I maybe self righteous at times, however, I always try to post accurate, factual information and debate the subject. You, on the other hand, post inaccurate subjective slurs cloaked under the guise of 'dissent'.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 10, 2015, 12:35:43 PM
As to Syria, and to Mr. Putin vs Obama in 2013, yes I did.

As to the current topic of which you are painfully ignorant--hell no.
yeah, it usually take about 30 years for the US to admit a mistake so we can give you some time. I'm still saying you will take some delight if Russia were to lose some land to China.  

Having checked, I'll withdraw the comment...and amend it to It seems every time I read...

 

[size=78%][[/size][size=78%]/quote][/size]
[size=78%]Fine, much better.[/size]



Well when you do reply to his (anyone's) posts try and have a bit more than contemptuous quips in response. You just don't hold the bonafides to castigate anything Mendy might post as personal bias.

 

Your idea of bias seems to include anything that critiques the Russians. I, for one, view Mendy's narratives as succinct and to the point. On the other hand I view your comments for the most part as insolent and not based on fact/truth.

Not necessarily true, overly harsh critiques I do disagree with though. 




You should probably stick to trying to discredit posters like myself. You might get more traction.   

"Pure speculation, and wishful thinking." or "I'm under NO obligation to answer your silly questions, nor am I interested in doing so." is not dissent. It's just pestering another member trying to get his point across that you have no real argument to parry or knowledge to add. You simply don't like the fact his comments are accurate so you muddy the water under the pretext of bias.

Here's the thing; If you studied, travelled, worked and resided in Russia/FSU for as many years as Mendy you might have a leg to stand on attempting to hassle him with your nonsensical observations/comments. As it stands you don't.
This is mostly you speculating which of course is fine to do.


 I don't agree that his comments/characterizations are always accurate. In this case I don't think they were/are.  By the manner in which he posted, I do think that he would like to see strife between China/Russia.  I do think that is wishful thinking though.    I also don't think knowing the name of a river in Siberia is important, and it is kinda funny that he felt the need to attempt to use it as a bludgeon to discredit, rather than simply stated his case, and admit where he stands.
   


Well, I maybe self righteous at times, however, I always try to post accurate, factual information and debate the subject. You, on the other hand, post inaccurate subjective slurs cloaked under the guise of 'dissent'.

Brass
Yeah you are just a little angel. I've noticed that some people are pretty easy on themselves, while rather critical of others.   No guise here, I do dissent from most of the opinions here, and attempt to back it up with links when I can.  I've reviewed my original comment, and it wasn't out of line, but mendeleyev must think he can say whatever he wants, and never be questioned at all.
 He said it as a fact that "China was going to tear chucks of Russia off"...I don't think that is happening, or is going to happen. 




Fathertime!     




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on August 10, 2015, 08:10:56 PM
This is the state of the Russian military that is going to prevent the Chinese from biting off chunks of Russian territories...  :popcorn:

http://www.businessinsider.com/5-ways-the-russian-military-is-falling-apart-2015-8
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 10, 2015, 08:48:42 PM
In posts above in this thread the idea of the breakup of the Russian federation was countenanced. Guessing at where Putin goes next in creating his diversions from the internal reality of a failed corrupt Russian system  is the possibility thrown up in the article below--  given the west hast not taken the bait to escalate in Ukraine--is Putin really that stupid to try and confront the west directly?

But sparking a manufactured international crisis over the Arctic, one that pits Russia against the United States and Canada, might be just what the doctor ordered.

Why? Because Vladimir Putin badly needs to make a new action movie to distract his people.

The Kremlin leader is boxed in on so many fronts right now that he badly needs to change the subject.



Why Putin Is Losing

Are little green men about to appear on the North Pole?

Russia's claim last week, using an extremely creative interpretation of international law, to exclusive economic rights to nearly half a million square miles of the Arctic Sea, was certainly a head scratcher.

Sure the territory is valuable due to its untapped reserves of fossil fuels and for the shipping lanes that will open as Arctic ice melts. But the claim is likely to ultimately be rejected by the United Nations.

But sparking a manufactured international crisis over the Arctic, one that pits Russia against the United States and Canada, might be just what the doctor ordered.

Why? Because Vladimir Putin badly needs to make a new action movie to distract his people.

The Kremlin leader is boxed in on so many fronts right now that he badly needs to change the subject.

The Donbas Quagmire


For starters, Putin has no good options in eastern Ukraine.

The old fantasies about seizing so-called Novorossia, the strip of land from Kharkiv to Odesa, and establishing a land bridge to Crimea are dead. And the more modest goal expanding the territory Russia and its proxies currently hold, perhaps with a push to Mariupol, is probably out of the question too.

Either campaign would be costly in terms of blood and treasure, it would certainly spark a fresh round of sanctions, and it would involve occupying hostile territory. The recent uptick in fighting this week reeks more of desperation than of a serious move to acquire more territory.

Russia could, of course, just annex the territories controlled by Moscow's proxies; or it could freeze the conflict and establish a Russian protectorate there.

http://www.rferl.org/content/why-putin-is-losing/27181633.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on August 10, 2015, 11:36:57 PM
Oh dear!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-10/russian-economy-shrinks-4-6-as-oil-slump-risks-deeper-recession

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 11, 2015, 02:05:35 AM
Varying perspectives on the border issue with Russia and China, each with valid points for consideration:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMcrAKSY0r0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsSZ_F5p3lk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_NGRMa8idI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii74uDbtErE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8n4It2QKw




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on August 11, 2015, 08:45:57 AM
Thanks for posting Mendy.  I will watch the whole thing after work.  Looks very interesting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 11, 2015, 04:09:12 PM
Varying perspectives on the border issue with Russia and China, each with valid points for consideration:















Thanks,
Much better than your earlier 'Crapping their pants' synopsis.  Watched 3 of the shorter ones, still doesn't seem to me like there is an impending crisis.Imperfect, but par for the course. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on August 11, 2015, 09:49:55 PM
Contrary to what one so-called dissenter would have you believe, it's Russia's reputation that's in the sh*tter not the U.S.

Russia, Putin Held in Low Regard around the World

Russia’s Image Trails U.S. across All Regions

Outside its own borders, neither Russia nor its president, Vladimir Putin, receives much respect or support, according to a new Pew Research Center survey. A median of only 30% see Russia favorably in the nations outside of Russia. Its image trails that of the United States in nearly every region of the world. At the same time, a median of only 24% in the countries surveyed have confidence in Putin to do the right thing in world affairs, and there is far less faith in the Russian leader than there is in U.S. President Barack Obama.

(http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2015/08/Russia-Image-08.png)

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/08/05/russia-putin-held-in-low-regard-around-the-world/

Brass




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on August 11, 2015, 10:02:29 PM
Putin is actually in serious trouble

Are little green men about to appear on the North Pole?

Russia's claim last week, using an extremely creative interpretation of international law, to exclusive economic rights to nearly half a million square miles of the Arctic Sea, was certainly a head scratcher.

Sure the territory is valuable due to its untapped reserves of fossil fuels and for the shipping lanes that will open as Arctic ice melts. But the claim is likely to ultimately be rejected by the United Nations.

At the same time, sparking a manufactured international crisis over the Arctic, one that pits Russia against the United States and Canada, might be just what the doctor ordered.

Why? Because Vladimir Putin badly needs to make a new action movie to distract his people.

The Kremlin leader is boxed in on so many fronts right now that he badly needs to change the subject.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-is-actually-in-serious-trouble-2015-8#ixzz3iZcKHYXx


Good article. It sums up how the criminals occupying the Kremlin are leading Russia and it's people straight to the slaughter.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 11, 2015, 10:13:49 PM
Putin is actually in serious trouble

Are little green men about to appear on the North Pole?

Russia's claim last week, using an extremely creative interpretation of international law, to exclusive economic rights to nearly half a million square miles of the Arctic Sea, was certainly a head scratcher.

Sure the territory is valuable due to its untapped reserves of fossil fuels and for the shipping lanes that will open as Arctic ice melts. But the claim is likely to ultimately be rejected by the United Nations.

At the same time, sparking a manufactured international crisis over the Arctic, one that pits Russia against the United States and Canada, might be just what the doctor ordered.

Why? Because Vladimir Putin badly needs to make a new action movie to distract his people.

The Kremlin leader is boxed in on so many fronts right now that he badly needs to change the subject.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-is-actually-in-serious-trouble-2015-8#ixzz3iZcKHYXx


Good article. It sums up how the criminals occupying the Kremlin are leading Russia and it's people straight to the slaughter.

Brass

Posted by: JayH
« on: Yesterday at 09:48:42 PM » Insert Quote
In posts above in this thread the idea of the breakup of the Russian federation was countenanced. Guessing at where Putin goes next in creating his diversions from the internal reality of a failed corrupt Russian system  is the possibility thrown up in the article below--  given the west hast not taken the bait to escalate in Ukraine--is Putin really that stupid to try and confront the west directly?

But sparking a manufactured international crisis over the Arctic, one that pits Russia against the United States and Canada, might be just what the doctor ordered.

Why? Because Vladimir Putin badly needs to make a new action movie to distract his people.

The Kremlin leader is boxed in on so many fronts right now that he badly needs to change the subject.



Why Putin Is Losing

Are little green men about to appear on the North Pole?

Russia's claim last week, using an extremely creative interpretation of international law, to exclusive economic rights to nearly half a million square miles of the Arctic Sea, was certainly a head scratcher.

Sure the territory is valuable due to its untapped reserves of fossil fuels and for the shipping lanes that will open as Arctic ice melts. But the claim is likely to ultimately be rejected by the United Nations.

But sparking a manufactured international crisis over the Arctic, one that pits Russia against the United States and Canada, might be just what the doctor ordered.

Why? Because Vladimir Putin badly needs to make a new action movie to distract his people.

The Kremlin leader is boxed in on so many fronts right now that he badly needs to change the subject.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on August 11, 2015, 10:25:32 PM
Posted by: JayH
« on: Yesterday at 09:48:42 PM » Insert Quote
In posts above in this thread the idea of the breakup of the Russian federation was countenanced. Guessing at where Putin goes next in creating his diversions from the internal reality of a failed corrupt Russian system  is the possibility thrown up in the article below--  given the west hast not taken the bait to escalate in Ukraine--is Putin really that stupid to try and confront the west directly?

But sparking a manufactured international crisis over the Arctic, one that pits Russia against the United States and Canada, might be just what the doctor ordered.

Why? Because Vladimir Putin badly needs to make a new action movie to distract his people.

The Kremlin leader is boxed in on so many fronts right now that he badly needs to change the subject.



Why Putin Is Losing

Are little green men about to appear on the North Pole?

Russia's claim last week, using an extremely creative interpretation of international law, to exclusive economic rights to nearly half a million square miles of the Arctic Sea, was certainly a head scratcher.

Sure the territory is valuable due to its untapped reserves of fossil fuels and for the shipping lanes that will open as Arctic ice melts. But the claim is likely to ultimately be rejected by the United Nations.

But sparking a manufactured international crisis over the Arctic, one that pits Russia against the United States and Canada, might be just what the doctor ordered.

Why? Because Vladimir Putin badly needs to make a new action movie to distract his people.

The Kremlin leader is boxed in on so many fronts right now that he badly needs to change the subject.


Yes, you did post that yesterday, Jay. My bad. :(

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 11, 2015, 10:32:11 PM
Yes, you did post that yesterday, Jay. My bad. :(

Brass

Actually I came across the bones of that story in some many different places it was amazing-- as your previous post on how untrustworthy the world sees Putin as  was  also the basis of many different articles.
The biggest point I am marvelling at is how  truth and right has  come out so far ahead of the Kremlins attempts to spread disinformation around the world. The same mediums the Kremlin sought to use to mislead-- have also been the same sources and methods  used to expose Russia & Putin .
What is needed now is for people in Russia to "get it"!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 12, 2015, 01:03:06 AM
Quote
Much better than your earlier 'Crapping their pants' synopsis.

You have obviously never sat in a session of the Duma. The name "Duma" comes from the Russian word думать, meaning "to think." However, upon news of the aforementioned war monument, several MP were running around to gather support for a local governor who, in their words, was "shitting his pants" over the issue. I watched as they grew more animated, and quickly came to the conclusion that one governor out east was not the only one in Russia who was "shitting his pants" over the situation.

Until you become more versed on the region, your opinion on it carries about as much weight as the governor's pants.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 12, 2015, 07:19:03 AM
You have obviously never sat in a session of the Duma. The name "Duma" comes from the Russian word думать, meaning "to think." However, upon news of the aforementioned war monument, several MP were running around to gather support for a local governor who, in their words, was "shitting his pants" over the issue. I watched as they grew more animated, and quickly came to the conclusion that one governor out east was not the only one in Russia who was "shitting his pants" over the situation.

Until you become more versed on the region, your opinion on it carries about as much weight as the governor's pants.


yes, yes....but it twas you making outrageous statements here.  I merely drew some attention to them.  You stated that China is going to be 'tearing off chunks of Russia'.   That still seems like more wishful thinking on your part, rather than it will be a fact.  You made your prediction, now time will tell.


So some guy characterized some local governor as 'shitting his pants', and now you are recharacterizing others to be doing the same....just seems like a bunch of silly exaggerations. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on August 12, 2015, 09:18:02 AM
Actually I came across the bones of that story in some many different places it was amazing-- as your previous post on how untrustworthy the world sees Putin as  was  also the basis of many different articles.
The biggest point I am marvelling at is how  truth and right has  come out so far ahead of the Kremlins attempts to spread disinformation around the world. The same mediums the Kremlin sought to use to mislead-- have also been the same sources and methods  used to expose Russia & Putin .
What is needed now is for people in Russia to "get it"!!

Personally, I hope the mini madman does try and usurp the pole. It would force NATO, NORAD and whatever western acronyms are left to finally get in this fight for real.

It's becoming clear Putin's vastly over rated military machine can't even handle an invasion of a neighboring country determined to resist. Imagine the military disaster the criminals occupying the Kremlin would face if they ever decided to go toe to toe with Canada and/or the US.

Quite frankly, this sort of blunder is exactly what's needed to finally put an end to Putin's rendition of the thousand year Reich.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on August 12, 2015, 09:46:32 AM
I daresay that if Russia wanted to Blitzkrieg Ukraine, it could do so in two to three weeks.  Keep in mind that the current forces brought to bear do not include the superior air power that Russia enjoys over Ukraine.  The US or Canada would be a completely different story.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on August 12, 2015, 11:23:25 AM
Since Russia is a one trick pony, and with oil predicted to fall $10 USD by next year, It won't be able to pay attention yet alone pay for such a claim to fame.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on August 12, 2015, 05:40:39 PM
Yes, you did post that yesterday, Jay. My bad. :(

Brass

I finally scooped Brass!

« Reply #229 on: August 07, 2015, 09:22:48 AM »
Quote
Putin tries to claim the North Pole
Russia has petitioned the United Nations for exclusive control
over almost half a million square miles of the Arctic.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 13, 2015, 01:08:20 AM
Neville:
Quote
.but it twas you making outrageous statements here.  I merely drew some attention to them.  You stated that China is going to be 'tearing off chunks of Russia'.   That still seems like more wishful thinking on your part, rather than it will be a fact.  You made your prediction, now time will tell.


I believe that patterns tell a story. Given the continual history of border disputes between the two, the fact that the Chinese population across the border outpaces the Russian population several times over, and given the fact that China would like to have those energy resources, I am sticking with Vladimir Putin on this one. He is not taking any chances, so if you don't mind, I'll go with his instincts over yours.


Quote
So some guy characterized some local governor as 'shitting his pants', and now you are recharacterizing others to be doing the same....just seems like a bunch of silly exaggerations. 

So, given your vast knowledge into that day, what did you see differently?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on August 13, 2015, 05:22:37 AM
Do we have to buy tickets to watch Neville getting educated each day, or is this free entertainment?

 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on August 13, 2015, 07:42:00 AM
Neville:

I believe that patterns tell a story. Given the continual history of border disputes between the two, the fact that the Chinese population across the border outpaces the Russian population several times over, and given the fact that China would like to have those energy resources, I am sticking with Vladimir Putin on this one. He is not taking any chances, so if you don't mind, I'll go with his instincts over yours.
You aren't making sense now, pitting Putin against me now. 

You have stated unequivocally that China will rip off pieces of Russia. I have said that I don't that is going to happen. 



So, given your vast knowledge into that day, what did you see differently?


It was YOUR day, not mine...YOU are the one characterizing everybody as 'crapping their pants'.  Based on what you have said, I think it is an exaggeration.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on August 13, 2015, 08:28:01 AM

You have stated unequivocally that China will rip off pieces of Russia. I have said that I don't that is going to happen. 



Watching how China is behaving re the Spratley Islands http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute) and the lengths they seem to go to to gain access to energy- it seems that the friendliness of Russia and China is more a case of the latter picking it's fights where it knows it can win.





 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 17, 2015, 03:28:45 PM
From the article--

"And this all makes the coming months a dangerous period indeed."

And that is all to true.


Panic In The Kremlin

You know things are getting really bad when Sergei Lavrov blows his cool.

The Russian foreign minister is usually smooth as silk in public, shamelessly and effortlessly twisting, spinning, distorting, and lying on behalf of Vladimir Putin's regime.

But this week, Lavrov was caught on camera -- and on mic -- sputtering a string of expletives during a joint press conference with Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir.

It's unclear what sparked Lavrov's odd outburst -- and it doesn't really matter. The fact that it happened is a sign of the times.

The past couple weeks have witnessed a series of incidents that suggest that all is not well in the Kremlin elite.

Russian customs and health officials have staged quasi-ritualistic burnings of European cheese and other foodstuffs, as well as of Dutch flowers.

Its parliamentary speaker, Sergei Naryshkin, has penned an article in the official government daily Rossiiskaya Gazeta accusing the United States of "zombifying" its European allies and plotting a major provocation against Moscow.

Naryshkin has also called for an international tribunal on the United States' use of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945.

And Russia has submitted a formal claim to the North Pole at the United Nations.

Did I miss anything? Perhaps. The weird and wacky has been so fast and furious lately that it would be easy to do so.

"There is panic at the top of the Kremlin," political analyst Andrei Piontkovsky wrote in a recent article in Apostrof. "This is evident in Naryshkin’s article, in the burning of foodstuffs at the border, and in Lavrov’s behavior at the press conference with Saudi officials."


http://www.rferl.org/content/panic-in-the-kremlin/27187665.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 18, 2015, 02:51:08 AM
The Russian ruble has hit a new six-month low against the dollar, as Moscow struggles with tumbling oil prices and economic sanctions. The currency plunged 1.3 percent to 65.7 rubles per dollar in the early hours of Aug. 17.
The pressure is rising on Russia-- the Kremlin have continually underestimated the depth of the problems they created in invading Ukraine.
Months ago-- we had forum fools rationalising all things Russian-- and telling us it was all temporary--  it's not looking that way now !


Cheap oil drags down Russia's ruble



London (CNN Money) —  The Russian ruble has hit a new six-month low against the dollar, as Moscow struggles with tumbling oil prices and economic sanctions.

The currency plunged 1.3% to 65.7 rubles per dollar in the early hours of Monday. It has since recovered to 65.5 per dollar.

Russia's central bank stopped buying foreign reserves in July, hoping to prevent the ruble from falling further. But it didn't help — the ruble has dropped 44.8% against the dollar in the last year and 12% in the last month.

The currency has been hit hard by the collapse in oil prices. That's because around half of Russia's government revenue comes from the oil industry. The country's budget is based on the assumption it could sell its oil for $50 per barrel or more. But oil is now trading below $42 a barrel, just a year after reaching $115 last summer.

On top of the oil slump, Russia is also facing pain from Western sanctions, imposed on Moscow over its role in the crisis in Ukraine.

This double hit has pushed Russia into deep recession, its first since 2009. Russia's economy shrunk 4.6% in the second quarter, the biggest drop since the global financial crisis in 2009.

The IMF expects Russian GDP to shrink by 3.4% this year and by more than 1% in 2016, as falling real wages, the higher cost of borrowing and shattered confidence hit domestic demand.

Moscow's retaliatory embargo on Western food has helped drive inflation higher. It reached 16% in July.


http://cnnphilippines.com/business/2015/08/18/cheap-oil-drags-down-russias-ruble.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on August 18, 2015, 09:42:27 AM
Oh dear!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-economy-may-even-worse-120000962.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/falling-ruble-leaves-russian-carmakers-nowhere-turn-050130704--business.html

Will they soon coin the new word huiloism to describe total economic incompetence?  :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on August 21, 2015, 10:41:20 AM
A quarter century after the fall of the USSR, Kremlinologists sense a putsch in the air, despite Vladimir Putin’s overwhelming approval ratings. The tea leaves say that the Kremlin elite, dubbed by some as Politburo 2.0, is currently deciding whether Putin should go before he makes a bad situation worse. The founder of the respected daily Kommersant predicts that a dramatic change is about to take place and advises Russians who have the means to leave the country for a month or so and take their children with them.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2015/08/20/is-a-slow-putsch-against-putin-under-way/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on August 21, 2015, 12:02:29 PM
A quarter century after the fall of the USSR, Kremlinologists sense a putsch in the air, despite Vladimir Putin’s overwhelming approval ratings. The tea leaves say that the Kremlin elite, dubbed by some as Politburo 2.0, is currently deciding whether Putin should go before he makes a bad situation worse. The founder of the respected daily Kommersant predicts that a dramatic change is about to take place and advises Russians who have the means to leave the country for a month or so and take their children with them.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2015/08/20/is-a-slow-putsch-against-putin-under-way/

Good article.  Thanks for posting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 21, 2015, 04:28:17 PM
Quote
We have had false alarms before. This may be another one, but at least we can now see a path to the end of the Putin regime. We should note that Putin spent the anniversary of the August 19 coup against Mikhail Gorbachev in Crimea. It is also worthy of note that he took with him the four key members of his government who would likely choose his successor. Remember: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Hearing and feeling some of the same, although I do not agree that the four who would choose another leader were on this trip. Ivanov might like for that position to come his direction.

I was struck more by the fact that he took these allies with him, but left folk like Igor Sechin back in Moscow.

(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-a.jpg?w=660) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-a.jpg)

(Above in Crimea: Mr. Putin, Prime Minister Medvedev, Head of Presidential Administration Sergei Ivanov. Photo: Press Pool/The Mendeleyev Journal)

The cover for the trip was an invitation by the Russian Geographical Society of Crimea to celebrate its 170th anniversary, but in many ways it was a demonstration of who is in charge of Crimea now.

Is it normal for Mr. Putin to take along so many high level officials on a presidential trip? No. Previously Mr. Putin had traveled to Crimea with Defense Minister & General of the Army Sergei Shoygu and Prime Minister Medvedev, but never before with such an important entourage.

(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-d.jpg?w=660) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-d.jpg)


(Above left: Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin, Prime Minister Medvedev in green, a representative of the Russian Geographical Society of Crimea, and General Shoygu. Photo: Press Pool/The Mendeleyev Journal)

(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-f.jpg?w=660) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-f.jpg)

(Laying memorial flowers at WWII monument "Malakhov Kurgan": Prime Minister Medvedev in green and Mr. Putin. Behind them are L-R: General Shoygu, President of the Senate/Federation Council Valentina Matviyenko, and Sergei Ivanov. Photo: Press Pool/The Mendeleyev Journal)


(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-j.jpg?w=660) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-j.jpg)

(Receiving a briefing: General Shoygu, Mr. Putin, PM Medvedev, Senate president Valentina Matviyenko, and Sergei Ivanov. Photo: Press pool/The Mendeleyev Journal.)


(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-the-memorial-complex-malakhov-kurgan-19-aug-2015-a.jpg?w=660) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-the-memorial-complex-malakhov-kurgan-19-aug-2015-a.jpg)

(L-R: Putin's Envoy to Crimea Oleg Belaventsev, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, Vladimir Putin, and Governor of Sevastopol Sergei Menyailo laid flowers at the Eternal Flame, Sevastopol. Photo: Press pool/The Mendeleyev Journal.)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 21, 2015, 04:50:59 PM
A quarter century after the fall of the USSR, Kremlinologists sense a putsch in the air, despite Vladimir Putin’s overwhelming approval ratings. The tea leaves say that the Kremlin elite, dubbed by some as Politburo 2.0, is currently deciding whether Putin should go before he makes a bad situation worse. The founder of the respected daily Kommersant predicts that a dramatic change is about to take place and advises Russians who have the means to leave the country for a month or so and take their children with them.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2015/08/20/is-a-slow-putsch-against-putin-under-way/


Putin and the ruble
« Reply #299 on: Today at 02:00:37 AM »
Quote
Numerous times over the last 18 months I have commented on the parlous state of the Russian economy( and a "few" times on why!!). Interestingly enough--more articles are appearing now commenting on the "missing" reserves-- and the resultant crisis it will create.
         Take note-- the critical stage is now here.From the article-- and  some very pertinent observations

"These nine months promise to be not simply interesting; they may turn out to be tragic. The predator who realizes that his death is imminent is capable of any gamble to preserve not only power and money but life as well. We know that from the behavior of Yanukovych. Putin now is in a similar situation. He is a living political and economic corpse. But this corpse holds the military capabilities of a disoriented country in his hands. This is why we must all be on high alert."
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18729.275
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on August 22, 2015, 10:22:28 AM
I don't think anyone has posted about these two recent articles discussing the political situation in Russia:

Quote
Putin Said Ready to Revamp Inner Circle as Ally Yakunin Goes

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s ready to start replacing long-serving allies in his inner circle after the sudden departure of OAO Russian Railways chief Vladimir Yakunin as head of the country’s largest employer.

Putin intends to bring in trusted younger people to shake up his team ahead of the 2018 presidential election as he seeks to drag Russia’s economy out of recession, an official said Tuesday, speaking on condition of anonymity because he isn’t authorized to discuss appointments.

Yakunin’s exit marks “a radical change, a very strong breach in the balance of the inner circle,” Gleb Pavlovsky, a former political adviser to Putin, said by phone on Tuesday. It may be “a signal of the high level of instability at the top” of the regime, he said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-18/putin-ally-yakunin-to-drop-railway-ceo-job-to-become-a-senator

Quote
Is A Slow Putsch Against Putin Under Way?

A quarter century after the fall of the USSR, Kremlinologists sense a putsch in the air, despite Vladimir Putin’s overwhelming approval ratings. The tea leaves say that the Kremlin elite, dubbed by some as Politburo 2.0, is currently deciding whether Putin should go before he makes a bad situation worse. The founder of the respected daily Kommersant predicts that a dramatic change is about to take place and advises Russians who have the means to leave the country for a month or so and take their children with them....

Unlike the Russian people, Russia’s Politburo 2.0 understands the true state of  the economy, including that Russia’s economists, contrary to earlier claims, are no Houdinis. The Russian economy, which stopped growing well before Crimea, will be mired in recession until oil prices recover, possibly many years hence. Russia’s highly indebted companies cannot borrow, and China will not and cannot come to their rescue. The Kremlin embargo of food imports raised inflation above 15%, more than triple any indexation of wages and pensions.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2015/08/20/is-a-slow-putsch-against-putin-under-way/

Hat tip: Tyler Cowen, blogging at http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/08/saturday-assorted-links-24.html

If you are interested in  these topics I urge you to read the entire article. It's difficult for me to believe there is or will be a putsch to overthrow Putin as long as he controls the gunmen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on August 22, 2015, 11:08:06 AM
Quote
..."speaking on condition of anonymity because he isn’t authorized to discuss appointments."...

(http://i.imgur.com/YfYH4HF.png)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on August 22, 2015, 12:28:22 PM
I don't think anyone has posted about these two recent articles discussing the political situation in Russia:

It's difficult for me to believe there is or will be a putsch to overthrow Putin as long as he controls the gunmen.

Putin won't be voted out of office however, If he reshuffles the deck one too many
times or throws one too many of the nomenklatura/oligarchs under the bus he can
find himself suddenly deader than Yuri Andropov. The problem with a corrupt system
is that it's corrupt.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 22, 2015, 02:38:33 PM
I don't think anyone has posted about these two recent articles discussing the political situation in Russia:


If you are interested in  these topics I urge you to read the entire article. It's difficult for me to believe there is or will be a putsch to overthrow Putin as long as he controls the gunmen.

Try a post a few upthread   #3371     & #3374   

I totally support them being read and re-read.

The control of the gun works both ways--you can do the shooting--but it sets the ground rules.Once the full depth 0f the catastrophe Putin is overseeing is sheeted home he will not last long.
As for the nonsense of his popular support-- another created myth.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on August 22, 2015, 03:17:47 PM

As for the nonsense of his popular support-- another created myth.

A knowledgeable pro western person here pointed out that one of the major polls showing his huge popularity with Russian people is regularly conducted by a western leaning prestigious organization within Russia.

So there is no myth about his popularity with Russian citizens.

I came across a few Russians living here in USA who also strongly support him and his actions toward Ukraine.  I don't associate with them at all any more.

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking here on this forum that he is going to be overthrown or lose his power.

But I suspect that is the extent of it . . . just wishful thinking.

Mendy previously pointed out that many Russians fully understand that Putin is totally lying about no Russian soldiers in Ukraine etc., but they just don't care about the lying.  So it's not like they are suddenly going to wake up.  They are fully awake to the idea that Ukraine is being raped.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Photo Guy on August 22, 2015, 05:05:28 PM
Yakunin goes...
This is not the first time a rift between Medvedev and Putin has appeared. The question is, is the divide mostly stylistic or substantive? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 22, 2015, 07:20:48 PM
Quote
his huge popularity with Russian people is regularly conducted by a western leaning prestigious organization within Russia.

The Levada Centre has somehow managed, although at times under tremendous pressure, to remain independent. Much of Mr. Putin's current popularity is based primarily on the annexation of Crimea--an action that caused most of the opposition to go silent--because they approved of the result. That both surprised and saddened me personally.

Well over 80 percent of the Russian population uses television as their primary news source. Russian news anchors and reporters are no longer just reporters--they are outright commentators disguised as reporters. With the exception of independent TV "Rain" which has been taken off airways and survives only via a decreasing number of cable providers, every other television network is controlled by the Kremlin. The message on television about Ukraine, and the USA, is a daily drumbeat of outright negative lies.


The Soviet Union was always class-driven, and racist. Although an honest historian could easily see the connection between the Kievan-Rus and the birth of the Russian nation, Russians have instead focused on the fact that a historically independent Ukraine needed, and sought, Russia's protection from outside enemies. The Russians used that to control, and eventually incorporate Ukraine into Imperial Russia. Thus, the Russian narrative for a long time has been to consider Ukrainians as "little brothers" (a hedged acknowledgment of their common birthright), but more importantly, as a people that cannot live or function without the watchful nurturing of the bigger brother in Moscow.

(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/dhbjuvuz9hi.jpg) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/dhbjuvuz9hi.jpg)

The government's propaganda in this vein continues, and the average Russia truly believes that Ukraine "belongs" to Russia to this day.

(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/euujymxdvio.jpg) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/euujymxdvio.jpg)

(Russia in flag colours of white-blue-red is seen comforting/consoling Ukraine in flag colours of blue and gold.)


A few years back after the massive street protests in 2010-2011, and then the repeat of large protests following the obviously dishonest election in 2012, I ventured that Mr. Putin might not finish his term, and could be gone in a couple of years. Obviously events have changed and my short term analysis was wrong, but I still wonder whether he will make it to the end of the six years. Or, will he be offered the option of riding off into the sunset to his new palace on the Black Sea at the end of the first term, in exchange for immunity?

OTOH, he may just continue to toy with weak Western leaders and browbeat Russia's neighbors for this, and for another term.


Quote
This is not the first time a rift between Medvedev and Putin has appeared. The question is, is the divide mostly stylistic or substantive? 

Recently in another post I showed photos and explained who accompanied him to Crimea just days ago. Medvedev and Putin have a long history dating back to their work in St Petersburg decades ago. While as different as night and day, they have a chemistry that works despite the occasional spat.

With the president on that trip were two other important connections from St Petersburg--Sergei Ivanov, who heads the presidential administration, and Valentina Matviyenko, who is president of the Russian Senate/Federation Council. Ivanov is a reserve General in the FSB, and like Medvedev, has been a close confidant of Putin for decades. Matviyenko (who was born in Ukraine), has also been closely associated with Putin for decades. He has great trust in those three.

(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-f.jpg?w=660) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/medvedev-putin-russian-geographical-society-crimea-18-aug-2015-f.jpg)

(Together: Medvedev and Putin at front. Shoygu, Matviyenko, and Ivanov at the rear. Photo: Press pool/Mendeleyev Journal)


Also on the trip were General of the Army/Defense Minister Sergei Shoygu. Shoygu is a "buffer," an appointment meant to keep the FSB from grabbing too much power. He is not from St Petersburg. Another high ranking official was Oleg Belaventsev, presidential envoy to Crimea. Belaventsev is a close friend to Shoygu. And, Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin made the trip. He is not from St Petersburg, but has been a Putin loyalist for many years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAAi-FRX59o

The St Petersburg connections are important because the Security organizations of Russia are based primarily in Peter. Fact: Nobody in Russia becomes president without an agreement from several shadowy but quite effective leaders of those agencies. That is why it is also important to balance the scales a bit by including others in the cabinet who are not a part of that circle.

Now, watch that submarine episode again, but this time notice the reaction of Putin and Medvedev at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AcOM-fynjI

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 22, 2015, 08:43:17 PM
A knowledgeable pro western person here pointed out that one of the major polls showing his huge popularity with Russian people is regularly conducted by a western leaning prestigious organization within Russia.

So there is no myth about his popularity with Russian citizens.

I came across a few Russians living here in USA who also strongly support him and his actions toward Ukraine.  I don't associate with them at all any more.

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking here on this forum that he is going to be overthrown or lose his power.

But I suspect that is the extent of it . . . just wishful thinking.

Mendy previously pointed out that many Russians fully understand that Putin is totally lying about no Russian soldiers in Ukraine etc., but they just don't care about the lying.  So it's not like they are suddenly going to wake up.  They are fully awake to the idea that Ukraine is being raped.

Wishful  thinking-yes-BUT-based on  a highly feasible scenario. I I think I have written about it a few times!!) 

The  'support" Putin supposedly has is not "real" in my view--   what point is there for any Russian to express a contrary view at this time? To finish up dead? Or at the least ostracised and excluded?
The test of the reality will only be when the reality of the consequences of Putins actions--- and government really hit home and start to bite everyday Russians.Perhaps action against Putin will be quicker when it bites those at the top pf his "tree" ?

Mendy's comments on the Putin popularity rise based on how they see the Crimea-- and his other tough talking anti western/Nato crap.That support will evaporate faster than Putin could fix the polls when it is not rolling forward anymore-- and the real cost of those actions  hit home.

Time has worked in Ukraine's favour in the east( not that the 5 million people stuck in the humanitarian crisis would notice!) The Russian invasion plan has failed-- and it must be up to about  plan 53 after the dismal failure of plan A  etc.
the Ukrainian military has done much better than expected-- and continues improving all the time. Getting through these next few months and preventing any Russian advance will only increase the pressure on Putin--let alone an advance of Ukrainian forces .
Chances are it will be a combination of events that destroys Putin. I might add--it is the regime that needs change--not just Putin-- and that may prove a much more difficult thing to achieve.

Yes  it is wishfull  thinking( predicting is more accurate word)--but there are quite a few knowledgeable observers jumping onboard now-- and backed up with more than tea leaves reading!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on August 22, 2015, 09:22:57 PM

The  'support" Putin supposedly has is not "real" in my view--   what point is there for any Russian to express a contrary view at this time? To finish up dead? Or at the least ostracised and excluded?

You have ignored fact that a respected west leaning opinion polling organization consistently records high numbers for Putin.  There is no fear of expressing your views in these polls.

There is REAL and OVERWHELMING support for Putin amongst the Russian citizens.

Stop kidding yourself with this wishful thinking.

Can it change; of course.

But you should admit to yourself the current situation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 22, 2015, 11:10:44 PM
ML:
Quote
There is no fear of expressing your views in these polls.

We don't disagree often, but here I'd respectfully differ. While there is not (yet, at least) the level of fear that was common during the "Red Terror" for example, one can be ostracized and fear being accosted by those with very strong nationalist/fascists leanings.

The one member of the Russian Duma who voted against the annexation of Crimea was forced to flee Russia, even though he is an elected member of the government. For now, although he remains a member of the Duma, he fled due to a court order for his arrest stemming from his opposition to the war in Ukraine. He now lives in California.

He gave an interview (http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2015/03/02/nemtsov-killing-reaction) in which he said:
Quote
It’s very comfortable – psychologically, very comfortable right now, to be supportive of Putin because you feel yourself a great patriot, like Russia is raising off its knees, you know, these kinds of things. And Russians, really, they felt humiliated for last 25 years after collapse of the Soviet Union, so some people actually just reestablished themselves by supporting Putin, but that’s a very short living exercise. And I think a year from now, a year-and-a-half from now, this support will actually vanish.”
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on August 23, 2015, 01:02:53 AM
Below is an excerpt from a piece by Alexei Bayer, an economist who emigrated from the USSR.  I believe this supports many of your arguments, Mendy.  I also believe that this is a good piece for the "useful idiots" in the West - those who parrot the Kremlin's propaganda about America creating Euromaidan for its own purposes, how the West wishes to "destroy" Russia, blah, blah, blah.  I read about these idiots in the 1920's, who admired the Bolsheviks, and see them today, still too blind to understand who they are supporting.  It sickens me. 
Quote
In the 1930s, Stalin sicked his communist masses on the old-style intelligentsia - all those engineers who got a professional education and therefore thought they knew better how to run factories, on prosperous, hard-working peasants, on experienced military commanders and on the educated party elite. After World War II came the turn of the Jews and other “rootless cosmopolitans”.
Invariably, the targets were eggheads - the ones who claimed that the world was too complex to be explained away by marxism-leninism and that solving some problems required education and professional training, not just love for the Great Leader.
I have no doubt that in Putin’s Russia, the turn of “domestic enemies” and the “Fifth Column” will also eventually come. For now, however, Putin is channelling the national anger out of the country. It’s the Anglo-Saxons - the British and the Americans - who have always conspired to keep Russia down. The perfidious Anglo-Americans bought everyone up and turned other nations into their lackeys in order to keep Russia from assuming its rightful role as a global leader.

Russia has accumulated a long litany of historical grievances, going back to the dawn of history. They include facts cited by “serious” political analysis as well as downright silliness and craziness - such as a recently advanced claim that Jesus travelled to Northern Russia, where he developed his teachings. There is an entire branch of history in Russia which has discovered that Western Europe was a Russian-speaking federation during the Middle Ages.

Today, those Anglo-Saxons and the West in general are flaunting their advanced technologies, their well-engineered cars, their dollar-based financial system and their control over commodity markets. Their movies, music, fashions and McDonald’s have insidiously spread into Russia, corrupting and weakening it. They are proud of their prosperity, tolerance and civil rights, claiming it to be a mark of an advanced civilization.

Russia can’t harm the United States and its allies in any real way - because indeed, the West’s military, technological, financial and economic superiority over Russia is at this point overwhelming. Vladimir Putin thought he could rile up EU farmers if he banned their products from the Russian market. But Russia turned out to be too insignificant to make a difference. While Brussels made up the farmers’ losses, Russia’s own economic decline meant that its imports were going to shrink anyway. All Russia can do is to burn banned food products brought into the country illegally in a kind of a voodoo ritual in which cheese, ham, fruit and vegetables become stand-ins for Western politicians.
More ominously, ex-Soviet nations that are hoping to join the West but do not yet enjoy NATO protection have also become stand-ins for the hated Americans. Ukrainians, along with Georgians, Moldovans and, in time, othersl, can expect to bear the brunt of Russia’s impotent rage.

All this suggests that the Russian madness can’t be expected to end painlessly merely if Putin goes. Stalin’s generation outlived its patron saint by three decades. Mikhail Suslov, the party ideologist of the Brezhnev era, is a classic example of a young Stalinist. He died in 1982.

Even if the Russian economy crumbles - as it is likely to do in the near-to-medium term, just as the Russian economy collapsed under Bolshevism - it will not result in any kind of a new beginning. There may be changes, but probably not for the better.
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/alexei-bayer-dont-expect-russias-policy-to-change-395882.html (http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/alexei-bayer-dont-expect-russias-policy-to-change-395882.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 23, 2015, 02:36:12 AM
Bo, that is an excellent article!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on August 24, 2015, 10:00:07 AM
Here we go again...
 :popcorn:

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-ruble-falls-2015-low-stocks-plunge-004312621.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on August 24, 2015, 11:40:03 AM
Mendy, I don't get your connection.

I said: There is no fear of expressing your views in these polls.

You said:

We don't disagree often, but here I'd respectfully differ. While there is not (yet, at least) the level of fear that was common during the "Red Terror" for example, one can be ostracized and fear being accosted by those with very strong nationalist/fascists leanings.

The one member of the Russian Duma who voted against the annexation of Crimea was forced to flee Russia, even though he is an elected member of the government. For now, although he remains a member of the Duma, he fled due to a court order for his arrest stemming from his opposition to the war in Ukraine. He now lives in California.

= = = = = = =

I was referring to anonymous polls.

You were referring to open voting in Duma.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on August 24, 2015, 03:20:13 PM
Mendy, I don't get your connection.

I said: There is no fear of expressing your views in these polls.

You said:

We don't disagree often, but here I'd respectfully differ. While there is not (yet, at least) the level of fear that was common during the "Red Terror" for example, one can be ostracized and fear being accosted by those with very strong nationalist/fascists leanings.

The one member of the Russian Duma who voted against the annexation of Crimea was forced to flee Russia, even though he is an elected member of the government. For now, although he remains a member of the Duma, he fled due to a court order for his arrest stemming from his opposition to the war in Ukraine. He now lives in California.

= = = = = = =

I was referring to anonymous polls.

You were referring to open voting in Duma.

I haven't been back to Russia since the Ukraine invasion by the Russian supported terrorists. But, even before that there seemed to be a fear among Russians that I know about speaking out against the Russian leadership openly. I chalked it up to a holdover from the Soviet days. It's been that way as long as I have been visiting Russia. My point I am making is most Russians that I know would not tell you their true feelings on politics or geo-politics in most any form openly that spoke against Russia or the Kremlin. It was really difficult to get some to open up on their true feelings and the reason was, fear of some sort of reprisal subtle or severe. Before, many Russians would want to talk politics with me because I am American and over time I would see some of them eventually open up but, some never did.

Now there is some sort of an unspoken state issued memorandum IMHO on being patriotic towards Russia and Putin in particular, from what my wife is telling me, it's much worse than it was before. Several of her friends even she no longer trusts. They are either drinking the kool-aid (a complete 180 from before) or they are scared to speak to her anything considered unpatriotic. The wife thinks it's got something more to do with the fact that she lives in the U.S. than them changing their mind and she scares them.

edit to add: My wife is very strongly anti-Putin and very strongly Pro Russian
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on August 24, 2015, 04:02:05 PM
The sanctions and the fall of oil prices are hitting Moscow and all Russia hard.
Inflation is driving up prices big time. My wife was speaking to a GF in Moscow and things are getting bad there. She's Ukrainian and said that many are getting deported from Russia just because they're Ukrainian.

Russia Must Pay For Greenpeace Ship

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-must-pay-for-greenpeace-ship/528587.html

Economic Crisis Empties Moscow Central Streets

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/economic-crisis-empties-moscow-central-streets/528585.html

Ruble Falls Further After Weak China Data, Tax Period Supports

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ruble-falls-further-after-weak-china-data-tax-period-supports/528399.html

Russian Hockey Federation Fined Over Canadian Anthem Incident

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/news/article/russian-hockey-federation-fined-over-canadian-anthem-incident/528541.html

Agriculture Minister Backs Criminalization of Food Smuggling
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/agriculture-minister-backs-criminalization-of-food-smuggling/528518.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on August 24, 2015, 06:24:11 PM
'Mass Murder:' Russian Patients Brace For Ban On Medical Imports
Quote
By Claire Bigg

August 23, 2015




W
hen Yulia Koptseva heard about a Russian government plan to ban a range of foreign-made medical goods, she had a single, urgent thought: "I want my daughter to live."

That was also the poignant comment she left on an online petition that has gathered almost 10,000 signatures against the proposal, unveiled earlier this month by Russia's Industry and Trade Ministry.

Koptseva's 6-year-old daughter Anastasia suffers from epidermolysis bullosa, a rare and painful condition that causes the skin to blister and tear at the slightest touch. 

If the ban is adopted, Koptseva fears Anastasia will no longer have access to the high-quality German bandages that have helped ease her pain, prevent extensive skin trauma, and lower the constant risk that she will develop life-threatening infections.

"This amounts to mass murder," says Koptseva, a former Moscow university teacher who quit her job to care for her daughter. "They might as well shoot people who need such supplies."

The proposed ban has sparked dismay in Russia, where many hospitals are woefully underequipped and patients often struggle against a host of barriers – from bureaucracy to indifference and ineptitude -- to receive even basic treatment.

Health experts say the ban, which targets more than 100 kinds of foreign-made medical goods and equipment, would deal a devastating blow to Russia's most vulnerable citizens.

Under the proposal, state-funded facilities would no longer be allowed to import items such as ventilators, MRI scanners, X-ray and ultrasound machines, defibrillators, and incubators for newborns.

The list of supplies that would be subject to restrictions also includes prosthetic devices, sterile bandages, orthopedic hospital mattresses, walking frames, and even condoms.

Private enterprises would not be affected, a detail that critics say would only widen the gap between the quality of care available to the rich and the poor in Russia.

"This won't influence our fund directly, we will still be able to purchase foreign goods," says Aliona Kuratova, who runs BELA, a medical charity that helps children with epidermolysis bullosa.  "But those children who currently receive state-funded treatment will be at risk."

'Butterfly Children'

An estimated 1,500 people in Russia suffer from the incurable genetic disease. Sufferers, who have a limited life span, are sometimes called "butterfly children" as their skin is as easily damaged as an insect's wings.

Many of them, like Anastasia, rely on state programs to obtain imported bandages, plasters, and antiseptics required to dress their skin.

Koptseva says the proposed ban, which would affect these items, will inflict unspeakable suffering upon butterfly children and expose them to severe infections.

"When we remove ordinary bandages from our children's bodies, the skin peels off, too," she says. "If these products are not purchased this year, we are doomed. I'm very scared."

BELA, together with a handful of Russian medical NGOs, sent a letter to Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev last week urging him not to push ahead with the proposed ban.

The letter warned that the measure "could lead of a sharp drop in the quality of medical care" and called on authorities to first conduct a detailed review of all medical goods manufactured in Russia.

Much of Russia's medical production falls behind international standards, the letter charged, citing the example of bandages that leave threads in patients' wounds and cause infections.

Public discussions on the proposal, scheduled to end on August 17, have been extended for another 60 days due to the emotional debate it has sparked in Russia. 

Officially, the measure is aimed at bolstering domestic companies that produce medical supplies.

The proposal, however, is widely seen as politically motivated -- just like the prohibitions Russia slapped on many Western foods last year in retaliation for sanctions imposed by the European Union, the United States, and other countries over Moscow's interference in Ukraine.

In the past year, Medvedev and President Vladimir Putin have held countless meetings dedicated to 'importozameshcheniye,' a 'Made in Russia' push to replace imported goods with domestically produced equivalents -- and support Russian industry into the bargain.

'Jingoism'

Coming amid controversy over Putin's decree to destroy illegally imported food -- and the frenzy of burning and bulldozing that ensued -- the threat of a ban has added fodder for accusations that the Kremlin is sacrificing the welfare of Russians for the sake of patriotic propaganda.

Critics say Russia just isn't ready.

Many companies that manufactured medical supplies in the Soviet era either collapsed or severely cut back their production after the disintegration of the U.S.S.R. in 1991, and Russia has since made little progress in supplanting foreign suppliers.

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-ban-on-medical-supplies/27204460.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 25, 2015, 12:42:01 AM
ML:
Quote
I was referring to anonymous polls.

You were referring to open voting in Duma.

Open voting in the Duma by a member of parliament, of which all ministers enjoy immunity from prosecution. Until recently, that is. The Duma voted to strip away that immunity from just one person, Ilya Ponomarev, who just happened to cast the only vote against annexation of Crimea.

If immunity can be stripped from a single elected official because he dared to stand up to Putin & Co., imagine what a chill that sends to society. If that can happen to someone so powerful, imagine what could happen to those who have no voice.

I would argue that most Russians do not fully believe that anything dealing with government policy is truly "anonymous."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on August 25, 2015, 09:06:20 AM
For those who follow Amnesty International, two Ukrainian nationals were given long prison terms (20 years each) in Russia for their opposition to the annexation of Crimea.

One was a filmmaker, the other described as an antifascist ecologist: Oleg Sentsov and Aleksandr Kolchenko.

They were charged with arson after accused of planning to blow up a statue of Lenin.

The court found that the two possessed clear evidence of leading a terrorist group because when arrested they had "packets of anti-diarrhea medication and painkillers in their homes," and upon a physical search, police discovered "business cards from the Ukrainian minister of sport and the mayor of Kyiv" in their possession.

Well, that certainly goes a long way (at least in Russia) to proving that someone leads a terror group.

Reminder to self: immediately remove all painkillers and any anti-diarrhea meds from the bathroom cabinet!

http://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/08/russia-crimean-activists-sentenced-after-fatally-flawed-military-trial/ (http://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/08/russia-crimean-activists-sentenced-after-fatally-flawed-military-trial/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on August 25, 2015, 09:32:48 AM
They were charged with arson after accused of planning to blow up a statue of Lenin...The court found that the two possessed clear evidence of leading a terrorist group because when arrested they had "packets of anti-diarrhea medication and painkillers in their homes," and upon a physical search, police discovered "business cards from the Ukrainian minister of sport and the mayor of Kyiv" in their possession.
This would have been inspiring material for a Monty Python sketch ;D.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 25, 2015, 05:21:33 PM
Over the last year in various posts  the blind believers of Russian propaganda nonsense sought to ridicule my posts( and those of others) quoting Russian casualty numbers in Ukraine--despite the evidence. In addition to Russian military casualties referred to in the article below-- thousands of hired thugs have been killed and injured.In this article--is confirmation of officially recognised deaths.

The Russian censors have removed the incriminating information. The Kremlin will claim that the webcached material is a forgery. The figures, however, make sense and confirm what should be obvious to all: Russian troops are in east Ukraine and are being supplied with heavy weapons by Russia.  Deadly battles–such as those at Donetsk Airport and Debaltseve–have resulted in heavy casualties on each side. We also know how the Russian dead are secretly transported back to Russia for furtive burials.

Despite this mass of evidence, only one-quarter of Russians believe the Russia has troops in Ukraine. Will the presence of 3,200 war invalids and more than 2,000 grieving families erode the belief that Russia is not conducting a war with its own troops against Ukraine? It seems that time and events will raise the number of Russians who believe the truth.

Russia Inadvertently Posts Its Casualties In Ukraine: 2,000 Deaths, 3,200 Disabled

The Delovaya zhizn inadvertent (or deliberate?) revelation of more than two thousand combat deaths in east Ukraine not only destroys the Putin myth of a small number of deaths of Russian patriots defending Russians in Ukraine from neo-Nazi extremists but also demolishes Putin’s cover story that no “active” member of the Russian armed forces is or has been in Ukraine. According to Putin, if there are Russian fighters in Ukraine, they had resigned and gone as volunteers. Note that contract fighters are paid for each day in the combat zone. In Russian military jargon, a contract soldier (kontraktnik) contracts to serve a specific period of time in the military (usually three years) in return for compensation and other benefits. The clause on payment for contract soldiers blows a huge hole through the cover story.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2015/08/25/kremlin-censors-rush-to-erase-inadvertent-release-of-russian-casualties-in-east-ukraine/


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on August 25, 2015, 08:35:00 PM
"Commissioned in 1991, Kuznetsov was Russia's last new large warship. In the past 23 years, Moscow has managed to complete a few new submarines and small frigates and destroyers at its main Sevmash shipyard, on the North Atlantic coast. But many of Russia's current naval vessels — and all its large vessels — are Soviet leftovers. They're outdated, prone to mechanical breakdowns, and wickedly uncomfortable for their crews — especially compared to the latest U.S., European, and Chinese ships. Washington alone builds roughly eight new warships a year, including a brand-new nuclear carrier every four or five years."
http://theweek.com/articles/572496/russias-navy-falling-apart (http://theweek.com/articles/572496/russias-navy-falling-apart)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 26, 2015, 02:55:36 AM
"Commissioned in 1991, Kuznetsov was Russia's last new large warship. In the past 23 years, Moscow has managed to complete a few new submarines and small frigates and destroyers at its main Sevmash shipyard, on the North Atlantic coast. But many of Russia's current naval vessels — and all its large vessels — are Soviet leftovers. They're outdated, prone to mechanical breakdowns, and wickedly uncomfortable for their crews — especially compared to the latest U.S., European, and Chinese ships. Washington alone builds roughly eight new warships a year, including a brand-new nuclear carrier every four or five years."
http://theweek.com/articles/572496/russias-navy-falling-apart (http://theweek.com/articles/572496/russias-navy-falling-apart)

One of the realities that Putin has done his best to ignore-- only the sheer size and nuclear capability  makes the Russian military dangerous!
The facts are they would get wiped out  in any total situation--the only question is how much damage they may do  while that process took place.In any limited confrontation ie-less than nuclear and geographically limited would see the Russian destroyed-- their equipment is significently inferior.
Ukraine is on the knife edge now--and attempt to escalate by Russia could lead to increased western help( I can only hope) and the difference from 12 months ago-- the means is much closer to being in place.

US sends F-22 fighter jets to Europe as part of Ukraine response

Warplanes will train alongside Eurofighter and other Nato aircraft as ‘Russia’s military activity continues to be of great concern’, says air force secretary

The US is to deploy F-22 fighter jets to Europe as part of efforts to support eastern European members of the Nato alliance unnerved by Russia’s intervention in Ukraine.

“Russia’s military activity in the Ukraine continues to be of great concern to us and to our European allies,” the air force secretary, Deborah James, told a news conference at the Pentagon. “For the air force an F-22 deployment is certainly on the strong side of the coin.”

James did not give details about the specific number of planes, date or location of the deployment but said it was in line with defence secretary Ash Carter’s recent call for a strong and balanced approach to Russia.


Nato reports surge in jet interceptions as Russia tensions increase
 Read more
The first deployment of the Lockheed Martin Corp F-22 to Europe outside air shows is seen as a move to address growing concerns among Nato allies about Russian military aggression. The air force has also been using radar-evading F-22 fighter jets to carry out some its attacks against Islamic State, the first real combat air strikes by the jets.

The air force chief of staff, General Mark Welsh James, said the F-22’s inaugural training deployment in Europe would allow US forces to train with Nato partners across Europe, testing the ability of the jets to communicate and fight together with the Eurofighter and other advanced warplanes.

James said the deployment would give F-22 pilots more experience with the European terrain. The air force has previously used the jets in Japan and South Korea.

Welsh said it would also allow the jets to fly into and out of facilities that could be used in some future conflict.

The single-seat, twin-engine, all-weather stealth tactical fighter aircraft was designed by Lockheed and Boeing as an air superiority fighter but can also be used for ground attack, electronic warfare and signals intelligence.

The jets formally entered service in December 2005, with the last F-22 delivered to the air force in 2012.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/25/us-sends-f-22-fighter-jets-to-europe-as-part-of-ukraine-response
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on August 26, 2015, 07:55:51 AM
First, let me state that I know nothing about military capability, even as I served 4 years in US Navy way back when.

However, I cannot buy into the idea that Russia is weak militarily.

Again, I am not the expert that some here might be, but . . .

* Despite being backward at the time, Russia (with help of millions of sacrificed Ukrainians) did rise to the challenge and defeat invincible (up to then) German military in the East areas.

* Despite what is being said about Russia's aircraft problems, their planes did cause USA a lot of trouble in Korea.

* Despite many general problems ascribed to Russia, they did help the North Viet kick USA out of Vietnam.

* Despite all the weaknesses, Russia did negotiate us to a stalemate regarding Cuba.

In short, I see no reason to believe that Russia cannot rise to the challenge today, overcome all odds, survive, and continue to give us trouble for the indefinite future; with Putin or without him.

Note: I say here Russia but fully realize it was USSR back then.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 26, 2015, 10:38:15 PM
ML---  I know your heart is in the right place and the frustration your head feels is also shared. Others have commented  above about Russians not being free to comment openly-- and my overiding point was 2 fold- what purpose can they achieve by sticking their neck out and history has taught holding your tongue was a good idea.


Eight Russians Who Have Taken A Stand

On August 25, 1968, eight Soviet citizens came out into Red Square to protest the Soviet-led invasion of Czechoslovakia. Under the banner "For your freedom and ours," the protesters were quickly arrested by the KGB and most suffered years of exile or imprisonment for their quixotic gesture.

Now, 47 years later, some Russian citizens feel they are in a similar situation -- pushed by their consciences to protest policies that the overwhelming majority of Russians accept. Many of these dissenters -- Aleksei Navalny, Boris Nemtsov, Pussy Riot, Yevgenia Chirikova, and others -- are well known in the West. But there are many more that have received less attention.

In recognition of the eight 1968 Red Square protesters -- Larisa Bogoraz, Konstantin Babitsky, Tatyana Bayeva, Vadim Delaunay, Vladimir Dremlyuga, Viktor Fainberg, Natalya Gorbanevskaya, and Pavel Litvinov -- RFE/RL is highlighting eight of the lesser-known Russians who have risked their safety, their jobs, and their liberty to follow their consciences.

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-eight-who-have-taken-a-stand/27208063.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 26, 2015, 10:54:05 PM
First, let me state that I know nothing about military capability, even as I served 4 years in US Navy way back when.

However, I cannot buy into the idea that Russia is weak militarily.

Again, I am not the expert that some here might be, but . . .

* Despite being backward at the time, Russia (with help of millions of sacrificed Ukrainians) did rise to the challenge and defeat invincible (up to then) German military in the East areas.

* Despite what is being said about Russia's aircraft problems, their planes did cause USA a lot of trouble in Korea.

* Despite many general problems ascribed to Russia, they did help the North Viet kick USA out of Vietnam.

* Despite all the weaknesses, Russia did negotiate us to a stalemate regarding Cuba.

In short, I see no reason to believe that Russia cannot rise to the challenge today, overcome all odds, survive, and continue to give us trouble for the indefinite future; with Putin or without him.

Note: I say here Russia but fully realize it was USSR back then.

Weak is a relative term. It is better to say weaker that the US and allies.
There is no doubt that a lot of damage would be done in a total war situation-- in that scenario it would be Russia that was wiped out to not see the other side of their handiwork.
The years of neglect and technical inferiority  would guarantee  that-- and the example above of the Russian Navy  is typical. Putin started an urgent  upgrade across the board of military capacity  back in 2010 ( or earlier?) but this is still very much a work in progress--  and their own targets were only 2016-2018 for any real obvious affect to come to fruition.
In a limited war--eg as in eastern Ukraine( maybe Crimea) --  a fully committed west would do an awful lot of damage very fast to the Russian military.
It leads to the question of how Putin would react- I have commented many times previously--he will push the west past the point where he thinks he has their "bluff" covered-- and it is that simple reason why the west needs to respond unequivocally to make it clear to Putin that he is going to be the loser-- just how big a loss is in his own decision making.
Right now--the Russians are massing again in Ukraine to attack.These attacks will be much larger and more coordinated than previously.I am not convinced that the Ukrainians alone will be able resist effectively.
Even a little help from the west  would stop Russia-but-- we are still sitting with our fingers in our ears.Putin can be stopped now--or these problems will be ongoing .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on August 27, 2015, 05:11:32 AM
Oh dear!
Huilo's plan to become junior partner to China not working out so well...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-pivot-china-slowed-projects-102052260.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 03, 2015, 01:48:35 PM
Interesting article on the economy-


http://news.vice.com/article/russias-economy-is-a-mess-and-its-problems-arent-going-away
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on September 03, 2015, 02:42:59 PM
Ad another recent article on the WSJ on the Russian economy.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/for-russia-oil-collapse-has-soviet-echoes-1441215966 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/for-russia-oil-collapse-has-soviet-echoes-1441215966)

The World is embracing alternative energy, solar tech is fast emerging, and a supergiant gas field was just discovered off the coast of Egypt. The future is not looking very bright for Russia if they do not quickly diversify.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/03/egypt-gas-discovery-more-bad-news-for-russia.aspx (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/03/egypt-gas-discovery-more-bad-news-for-russia.aspx)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on September 04, 2015, 08:09:58 AM
Canadian soldiers land in Ukraine for training mission

..."Less than a year after Prime Minister Stephen Harper told Russian President Vladimir Putin to “get out of Ukraine,” Canadian soldiers have landed in the troubled country.

There are 150 of them to be precise — military personnel with expertise in explosives detonation and other battlefields skills."...

..."These troops are there to train and prepare the Ukrainian army for battle."...

...“We’re here to pass on our knowledge to our Ukrainian partners to ensure they have the skills to survive and thrive on the battlefield,” Lt.-Col. Jason Guiney — commander of Canada’s Joint Task Force Ukraine — said in a statement sent to me by the Canadian Armed Forces. “Our soldiers are ready for this mission and we’re looking forward to being in the field and working on the fundamentals of soldiering.”...

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/09/01/canadian-soldiers-land-in-ukraine-for-training-mission

Solid wording (my bolded). Guiney's statement says more than meets the eye.

Brass




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on September 06, 2015, 04:59:09 PM
(http://i60.tinypic.com/fdzsrd.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 11, 2015, 08:41:25 AM
 We will initiate stripping Russia of veto right at UN General Assembly session, Poroshenko says


President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko has called for discussing the deprivation of Russia's veto right at the UN Security Council at the session of the UN General Assembly in September.





Poroshenko said at the annual meeting of the Yalta European Strategy (YES) in Kyiv Sept. 11, Censor.NET reports citing Interfax-Ukraine.


"It is time to pool efforts in order to reform and improve the institutions and instruments which are bound to serve the principles and norms of international law, i.e. the veto right of Russia at the UN Security Council. Russia's aggression against Ukraine has vividly demonstrated the shortcomings of this mechanism. Hopefully, we will launch a related debate at the forthcoming 70th session of the UN General Assembly," he said.

Petro Poroshenko believes that the anti-Ukrainian policy of Russia in Donbas and Crimea "has completely ruined" the post-WWII international security systemSource: http://en.censor.net.ua/n351514Source: http://en.censor.net.ua/n351514




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on September 14, 2015, 01:49:29 PM
The Russians only now begin to comprehend the depth of their folly in making those sweetheart deals with the Chinese last year...

Is Russia shifting focus from China to India for its oil barrels?

..."With China's economy on the backburner, and its oil fields on the US sanctions list, Russia is all set to sell its oil to India, a report in OilPrice.com has said."...

..."According to the OilPrice report, China's deals with Russia have often met with dead-ends, and with the world's second largest economy's growth slowing, trade between the two countries has fallen."...

..."According to the report, China and Russia had made a gas deal in May 2014, which included the construction of two pipelines to transport Russia’s gas to China. The deal was suspended in July, leaving Russia in the lurch."...

..."The report states that Russia's exports to China were down 20% compared to last year, while China only invested under $1.6 billion into Russia in 2014, when Russia invested a whopping $151.5 billion during the same year into the Chinese economy."...

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-is-russia-shifting-focus-from-china-to-india-for-its-oil-barrels-2125053

The Chinese must be laughing all the way to the bank.

All this talk here and elsewhere about the Russia/Asia 'alternate' economy displacing the US economically, not to mention "de-dollarization"... So much for the mighty Russian economic empire. Pffft. What a hoot.

And now what really happened; As several members here predicted, the Chinese in their quiet way took the Russians to the cleaners - fleeced them.

We haven't seen any champagne drinking photo ops with Putin and the Chinese Premier lately. Gee, you think Putin's finally figured out he's been played for a sucker?  ;D

The Indians are probably wringing their hands in anticipation of their own payday. :D

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 14, 2015, 04:58:19 PM
 :cluebat: The Russian Empire is taken to the cleaners by Chinese coolies..  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 16, 2015, 11:24:26 AM
Russian Priest Arrested for Selling Drugs to Convicts
The Moscow Times
Sep. 16 2015 20:17

A deacon at a monastery in Russia's Samara region was arrested while attempting to deliver 50 grams of heroin to a local prison colony, Vesti.ru news website reported Wednesday.

The priest, whose name was not disclosed, was under the influence of drugs himself at the time of his arrest, the report said.

He confessed to smuggling 150-200 grams of heroin to the penitentiary every week for the last month, arriving by taxi at a certain spot and throwing packages containing the drugs over the fence.

The priest joined the monastery in 2009. In 2014 he quit his job and started using drugs, Vesti.ru reported.

In 2015 he returned to the monastery and shortly after received an offer from an unidentified individual — who reportedly also introduced himself as a priest — to start delivering drugs to the prison colony in exchange for money and heroin fixes.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-priest-arrested-for-selling-drugs-to-convicts/531137.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 21, 2015, 01:56:45 PM
Depending on whose estimates one trusts, yesterday's opposition rally in Moscow drew between 4-8 thousand marchers. They were restricted to an area in southern Moscow, and many claim that they were forbidden entrance to the rally. However, it was the first public opposition event since the rally following Nemtsov's murder, so perhaps the opposition is starting to emerge from underground.

http://youtu.be/9bN3PlPCSFQ


They very wisely kept it "patriotic" with Russian flags and symbols, but the themes of "Putin must go" to "No war in Ukraine" to "Remember Boris (Nemtsov)" was also in the forefront.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 22, 2015, 07:56:40 PM
Turchinov: Fundamental documents signed between Ukraine and NATO.

Kyiv, Tuesday September 22

After an extended meeting, Secretary of the National Defense and Security Council of Ukraine (NSDC) Oleksandr Turchynov and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg have signed the roadmap of the partnership program on strategic communications between the NSDC and the NATO International Secretariat.

The partnership program is aimed at implementing comprehensive support for Ukraine in the strategic communications sector, particularly to counteract Russian propaganda and inform the public of the ongoing events in Ukraine.

In addition, Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense of Ukraine, Chairman of the Interdepartmental Commission on Military and Technical Cooperation and Export Control of Ukraine Oleg Hladkovskyy together with a representative of NATO Defence Investment E.Heroldom signed a Joint Declaration on strengthening military-technical cooperation between Ukraine and NATO .

The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Pavlo Klimkin and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg signed the Agreement between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty on the status of NATO representation in Ukraine.
http://uawire.org/news/ukraine-and-nato-roadmap-signed
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 23, 2015, 08:23:41 PM

NATO signs agreements with Ukrainian government

22/09 18:31 CET




NATO’s secretary general has taken part in a meeting of Ukraine’s National Security and Defence Council, during which a number of agreements were signed.

They included partnership in communications and agreement on the status of NATO’s Mission in Ukraine. Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko said he might bring up the issue of peacekeepers in the Donbass at the upcoming UN General Assembly.

“Russian troops are present in Ukraine. And they continue to support separatists with training, with equipment, with command and control. And therefore I call on Russia to withdraw all its forces from Eastern Ukraine and to fully implement the Minsk agreements,” said NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.

Russia continues to deny involvement in the conflict in eastern Ukraine, but from being more than 60% against NATO membership before fighting began, Ukrainian public opinion has changed dramatically.

“About 64% of Ukrainian voters said they would vote for joining NATO. They indicated: the main reason for joining was that it would guarantee the safety of the country in future. The second reason was that NATO membership would be the first step on the road to join the EU,” said Sociologist Maria Zolkina from the Ilko Kucheriv Democratic Initiatives Foundation.

Earlier Poroshenko and Stoltenberg reviewed troops at the Peacekeeping and Security Centre of the Ukrainian army in Lviv in western Ukraine. however NATO once again declined to supply Ukraine with weapons.

“Petro Poroshenko has announced that Ukraine will hold a referendum on joining the military alliance. However, the poll will not take place in the near future. Before the referendum is held, the state needs to implement a number of serious reforms. First of all, Ukraine should reestablish peace and stability in its eastern regions and bring Ukrainian Armed Forces in line with NATO standards,” reports euronews’ Maria Korenyuk.
http://www.euronews.com/2015/09/22/nato-signs-agreements-with-ukrainian-government/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 23, 2015, 08:25:37 PM
Pro-Russian militants pledge war if Ukraine moves toward NATO

23.09.2015 | 18:07

 

The so-called leader of the self-styled breakaway Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) Alexander Zakharchenko threatened to withdraw from the Minsk Agreement, if Kyiv starts the procedure of Ukraine's accession to NATO.

"Statements by [Ukrainian President Petro] Poroshenko and his representative in the Minsk talks [Leonid] Kuchma about Ukraine’s need to  join NATO are aimed at the destruction of the Minsk Agreement. If Ukraine starts organizing a referendum on accession to NATO, or other procedures, the "DPR" will exit from the Minsk Agreement immediately and proceed with the cleansing of the whole territory of Donbas from Kyiv’s occupation," Zakharchenko said, according to one of pro-terrorist websites.

As UNIAN reported earlier, President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko plans to hold a NATO membership referendum. According to him, more than 60% of Ukrainians already support the accession, and the number of supporters is growing.

It was earlier reported that Zakharchenko urged to prepare for a new war with Ukraine.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1132300-pro-russian-militants-pledge-war-if-ukraine-moves-toward-nato.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 24, 2015, 02:09:52 AM
Retired general David Petraeus, warned today that Vladimir Putin could “lash out” and attack the West within the next two years because he is running out of money.  Gen. Petraeus said that Putin will become more desperate and would perform a “suicidal act of violence” as western sanctions wipe out his country’s cash fund.

http://yournewswire.com/retired-general-warns-putin-could-lash-out-attack-west-within-2-years/

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 24, 2015, 02:13:27 AM
In uploading this link, many forum members perhaps know that I do not support the American strategy on Syria. However, the article deserves a chance to add to the debate. I do agree with the assessment that Syria and Ukraine are part of a broader framework for CCCP.2

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/putin-syria-ukraine-213173 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/putin-syria-ukraine-213173)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 24, 2015, 07:19:55 AM
Mendy,

In the beginning of that article it asks the question if Russia is strategic or tactical.  Anyone who has followed Russian politics for years (like you have, Mendy) can only answer 'tactical'.  Strategic does not work for V.V. Putin.   

It bears witness that when Russia went into Krim, Putin had no idea what the outcome would be.  Now Ukraine has demonstrated that it is far more capable of defending itself than Russia had ever anticipated.  And it is becoming more capable each month.   

The idea that the US has no coherent strategy in the Middle East is pretty apparent to anyone who looks.  But to try and tie the whole policy thing between Syria and Ukraine together in a nice little bow is ludicrous. 

While there is a feeble attempt to re-institute the former Soviet Union type dependencies of some countries to Russia, the current strategy only strengthens those countries outside of Russia's current orbit, which include the Baltics, and most of the Warsaw Pact nations.  (Can you imagine Germany wanting to go back to Russia's orbit?)

I have been in Russia for a month, now, and believe that the general populace is not engaged in national politics.  They simply see Putin as the 'Home Team'.  The sanctions have not demonstrated any impact that I have seen since I have been here.  The only thing they have done is make my dollar worth quite a bit more.

On a more personal note, I did beat my woman at Billiards last night.  We enjoyed some cheese balls and great dipping breads not to mention foreign imports involving malt beverages not on the sanctioned list.  My victory earned me a back massage.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 24, 2015, 07:52:05 AM

It bears witness that when Russia went into Krim, Putin had no idea what the outcome would be.  Now Ukraine has demonstrated that it is far more capable of defending itself than Russia had ever anticipated.  And it is becoming more capable each month.   


You are asserting what Russia anticipated, which in itself isn't factual....





     

The idea that the US has no coherent strategy in the Middle East is pretty apparent to anyone who looks.  But to try and tie the whole policy thing between Syria and Ukraine together in a nice little bow is ludicrous. 

 


We (the US) may not have a coherent strategy, but it is quite possible that there is NOW a tie between Syria and Ukraine, from the Russian POV....although the article may not have nailed what the link is.  Another poster believes that Russia is going to try to milk the US in Syria, which is also possible.   


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 24, 2015, 08:09:32 AM
And you give Russia much more credit than it deserves.  The entire Ukrainian strategy was knee jerk from beginning. But I am sure, through your intimate knowledge and deep conversations with Sergei Lavrov that you will now try and sell the idea that Russia's strategy in Ukraine was thought out.

Russia had long coveted Krim as a lost piece of empire.  The use of an armed takeover of a parliament and subsequent bogus referendum to acquire a piece of land has consequences that could not have been anticipated.  That was my assertion.  In case you don't personally remember your win/win strategy, you were refuting that Russia's takeover was bad for Ukraine. 

In the long term, you may have been right, but not for the reasons that you were supposing.  The political shift away from Russia was guaranteed by taking away most of the Russian nationals in both Krim and Eastern Ukraine.  Controlling Ukraine is becoming more and more elusive by the day.  Especially since Kyiv has now declared Russia a belligerent and has been pushed to seek NATO recognition.  Such could be construed as positive events.

You were part of a small opposition chorus that chortled at the idea of Russia carving off part of Ukraine and everyone going their happy way.  Tell us again that it worked out well for Russia. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 24, 2015, 08:19:31 AM
Part of Russia's strategy, I believe, as noted, is to move their jihadis from Russian soil to the Middle East.

I disagree that the US lacks a coherent strategy.  I believe its strategy is just to back away.  Obama stated so much in campaigns, and it was something the world stated it wanted.  So, time for others to step up.  Obama stated America needed to be self reliant in the energy field, and it is.  Before the drop in oil prices, America was exporting oil.  I think Obama views the Middle East as a, to paraphrase, "lose lose" proposition for the U.S.

I also disagree with the article's assertion that Russia is reasserting itself in the Sunni Arab world.  It has tried to do so, but largely failed.

I'd say, if Russia is intent on dominating the Middle East, let it do so.  It will have as much success as half a century of Western interference in the region has enjoyed.


From the article -


Quote
but Russia's risk/reward calculus is far different from ours.

That is true, and Russia, being ruled by the former KGB, mostly ruthless killers and morally barren individuals, employs tactics which, at least optically, rather than actually, Western powers do not, and there is no public moral outrage/opinion which has to be considered or mollified.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 24, 2015, 08:32:39 AM
Boe,

There is a great divide in the United States regarding foreign policy right now.  While the State Department may be giving instructions to the US diplomatic teams, the opposition, in the form of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the Chair, Corker, have strategic differing viewpoints.  Obama cannot sell his foreign policy and has had to use dodges to implement his strategy.  That was what I mean by the US not having a coherent strategy.

I know I am not unique on this forum in thinking that the US has abandoned its position as the leader of the free world in the isolationist and fend for yourself mentalities promulgated by the Obama administration.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 24, 2015, 08:37:25 AM
There is a great divide in the United States regarding foreign policy right now.  While the State Department may be giving instructions to the US diplomatic teams, the opposition, in the form of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the Chair, Corker, have strategic differing viewpoints.  Obama cannot sell his foreign policy and has had to use dodges to implement his strategy.  That was what I mean by the US not having a coherent strategy.

OK, got it.

Quote
I know I am not unique on this forum in thinking that the US has abandoned its position as the leader of the free world in the isolationist and fend for yourself mentalities promulgated by the Obama administration.

I agree with this, however, were I American, I would be asking myself why we are doing most of the heavy lifting (as has the UK).  Why should our soldiers die, or come home without limbs, in order to keep hordes of refugees from overtaking Europe, or to install regimes somewhat hostile to us? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 24, 2015, 01:51:25 PM
Jone, one small correction:

The taking of Crimea was actually well thought out and demonstrated the prowess of Russian military planning.

Months prior to the event, the Kremlin paid for several public opinion polls in Crimea to judge how much support or opposition they would encounter with such a move. Those began around the time of the events in Maidan.

In Security Council meetings dealing with the crisis in Kyiv, often the opening of those are open to press, ministers were briefed on how much money Russia would save if there was no longer any need to rent base and port facilities, and if Russia no longer needed to honour negotiated deals with Ukraine on gas. What they failed to calculate was the West's reaction and the sanctions. They made a bet that a weak USA leader would wring his hands, but do nothing.

The initial invasion was a thing of terrifying "beauty" as waves of well-coordinated helicopters (stationed near Sochi), flew in elite, but unmarked, paratroopers and special ops troops.

The article speculates that the military presence in Sochi was a prelude to invading Crimea, but I do not think so. I believe that those were meant for another incursion into Georgia. Putin had previously taken responsibility for the 2008 war in Georgia, saying that he and Medvedev had ordered the invasion based on the discovery of "terror camps" in neighboring Russian controlled Abkhazia, which he claimed were being planted by Georgia in order to disrupt the forthcoming Olympics in Sochi.

All he needed was some sort of terror attack from the Caucasus, and he would have finished what had been left uncompleted in Georgia. This time he would not have to face the same American president who had flown Georgian troops from Afghanistan back to Georgia, who had left those American military transport planes on the tarmac at Tbilisi, and then informed Putin that any move on the Georgian capital would be treated as a declaration of war on the United States.

The events on Maidan put those military assets in the right place at the right time.

There were so many things that were already in place for the invasion to be successful: an advance team of "local" militia who seemed very well equipped, a Russian citizen who just happened on the scene in time for the expulsion of the Crimean (pro-Russian) parliament, and who amazingly just happened to be selected (without a vote) as the new Prime Minister of Crimea.

The professionally printed notices for a referendum just seemed to spring up from under a rock somewhere. And the ballot itself, while someone "forgot" to include an option to stay with Ukraine, did offer Crimean citizens two options: (one) was to exit Ukraine and join the Russian Federation, and (two) was to exit Ukraine and become a "protectorate" of the RF.

Finally, one must remember that Putin only nominally tolerated Yunakonvict, most of the time letting him deal with Medvedev. He would likely have thrown Viktor under the bus no matter what ultimately happened in Kyiv. Events in Kyiv just happened to play nicely to Putin's liking in regards to Crimea.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 24, 2015, 02:08:04 PM
And you give Russia much more credit than it deserves.  The entire Ukrainian strategy was knee jerk from beginning. But I am sure, through your intimate knowledge and deep conversations with Sergei Lavrov that you will now try and sell the idea that Russia's strategy in Ukraine was thought out.



What is wrong, can't handle a different perspective? It does not require a visit from Lavrov to dispute your statement.  Did you meet with Lavrov when you drew your conclusion that I questioned nicely. 


Russia had long coveted Krim as a lost piece of empire.  The use of an armed takeover of a parliament and subsequent bogus referendum to acquire a piece of land has consequences that could not have been anticipated.  That was my assertion.  In case you don't personally remember your win/win strategy, you were refuting that Russia's takeover was bad for Ukraine. 

In the long term, you may have been right, but not for the reasons that you were supposing.  The political shift away from Russia was guaranteed by taking away most of the Russian nationals in both Krim and Eastern Ukraine.  Controlling Ukraine is becoming more and more elusive by the day.  Especially since Kyiv has now declared Russia a belligerent and has been pushed to seek NATO recognition.  Such could be construed as positive events.

You were part of a small opposition chorus that chortled at the idea of Russia carving off part of Ukraine and everyone going their happy way.  Tell us again that it worked out well for Russia. 




You are going off on a strange tangent, my recent comments had nothing to do with any of this.  Would you like to rehash old discussions or something?  If so, I recall you guaranteeing a full Russian invasion of Ukraine, which never happened. 


To your point, I would suspect that Russia knew that it was possible they were opening up a can of worms with Ukraine, and weren't as surprised as you seem to want to act like they were....The possibility of losing the control they had of a large chunk of space without a fight wasn't going to happen on Putin's watch.  That is my opinion.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 24, 2015, 02:42:31 PM
Quote
I would suspect that Russia knew that it was possible they were opening up a can of worms with Ukraine, and weren't as surprised as you seem to want to act like they were.


I disagree.  I believe the Kremlin assumed Ukraine would capitulate.  They never anticipated a fight.  They also assumed all of Ukraine from Kharkiv, east and south, would welcome Russian annexation. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 25, 2015, 01:09:51 AM
Quote
I believe the Kremlin assumed Ukraine would capitulate.  They never anticipated a fight.  They also assumed all of Ukraine from Kharkiv, east and south, would welcome Russian annexation.

Exactly. That is why Yanukonvict was left out in the cold after he was spirited across the border to Russia. The Kremlin had little to no contact because they knew he would want Ukraine left intact as his personal fiefdom.

The insertion of special ops and FSB plainclothes goons as "local" rebel leaders were only meant to prime the pump, to get the process started. They thought that it would snowball from there.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 25, 2015, 04:07:56 AM
Exactly. That is why Yanukonvict was left out in the cold after he was spirited across the border to Russia. The Kremlin had little to no contact because they knew he would want Ukraine left intact as his personal fiefdom.

The insertion of special ops and FSB plainclothes goons as "local" rebel leaders were only meant to prime the pump, to get the process started. They thought that it would snowball from there.

My take as well.  That was one of the reasons that they attacked the Kharkov Opera House instead of the Mayor's office.  I think you hit the right word with 'Goons'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 25, 2015, 04:21:52 AM

I disagree.  I believe the Kremlin assumed Ukraine would capitulate.  They never anticipated a fight.  They also assumed all of Ukraine from Kharkiv, east and south, would welcome Russian annexation.

I'm wandering how well Boe can read thoughts of the Kremlin. Intelligent services of world would broil from envy. :)
As we say in Russia, Ukrainians like to invent the enemy and then fight with him. Putin said crystal clear his intentions in march 2014: Crimea is Russian, Ukraine needs federalization to keep unity. He still keeps his line. If Ukraine rejects federalization,  Donbass will separate from Ukraine to protectorate of Russia.
Though I know where Boe takes her guess-works about Kremlin, I was reading too in social networks and blogs of Russian nationalists.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 25, 2015, 04:34:04 AM
I'm wandering how well Boe can read thoughts of the Kremlin. Intelligent services of world would broil from envy. :)
As we say in Russia, Ukrainians like to invent the enemy and then fight with him. Putin said crystal clear his intentions in march 2014: Crimea is Russian, Ukraine needs federalization to keep unity. He still keeps his line. If Ukraine rejects federalization,  Donbass will separate from Ukraine to protectorate of Russia.
Though I know where Boe takes her guess-works about Kremlin, I was reading too in social networks and blogs of Russian nationalists.

Yes, Russia sets a great example for Federalization.  NOT!  It is possible that Eastern Ukrainians would be marching from the frying pan into the fire.  With the people that are left in Donbas, Ukraine would be better off separating from Eastern Ukraine and letting them assimilate into Russia.  But, perhaps, Belvis, you forgot to mention the other things that Putin has said about Ukraine.  Like:  "Ukraine is ours!"  Putin had no intention of letting Ukraine get anywhere near to a European economy.  That is the true story of the war between Russia and Ukraine.

Russia has no desire to see Federalization in Ukraine.  While Russia uses that as the official line, the underscore is that Ukraine is currently being run by a bunch of Nazi thieves.  Yes, for the past month I have watched Russian television, had beers with Russian guys and read Russian newspapers.  You speak like an official mouthpiece of the Russian government.  But you and I both know the true story.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 25, 2015, 04:59:42 AM
Putin has said about Ukraine.  Like:  "Ukraine is ours!"  Putin had no intention of letting Ukraine get anywhere near to a European economy.
Could you please give a link where Putin is saying  "Ukraine is ours!". I understand you thinks Putin is all-powerful man, however even Putin has no might to stop Ukraine from moving to a European economy. This can do only Ukrainians.

While Russia uses that as the official line, the underscore is that Ukraine is currently being run by a bunch of Nazi thieves.  Yes, for the past month I have watched Russian television, had beers with Russian guys and read Russian newspapers.  You speak like an official mouthpiece of the Russian government.  But you and I both know the true story.
Yes, I'm saying you what Russian government intend to do. Because you have beers with Russian nationalists and voices their intentions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 25, 2015, 03:02:03 PM
I'm wandering how well Boe can read thoughts of the Kremlin. Intelligent services of world would broil from envy. :)
As we say in Russia, Ukrainians like to invent the enemy and then fight with him. Putin said crystal clear his intentions in march 2014: Crimea is Russian, Ukraine needs federalization to keep unity. He still keeps his line. If Ukraine rejects federalization,  Donbass will separate from Ukraine to protectorate of Russia.
Though I know where Boe takes her guess-works about Kremlin, I was reading too in social networks and blogs of Russian nationalists.


Tens of millions of dead Ukrainians over the centuries tells me Ukrainians don't need to invent an enemy.


As for my ability to read the Kremlin, nothing I have "read" was even hidden.  Who were the first "leaders" of the DNR and LNR?  Muscovites with ties to the FSB and old GRU.


Why would Putin decide what form of government Ukraine needs? 


It is in Ukraine's interests to let the so called LNR and DNR to separate.   The bandits now running the DNR can continue to take their orders from Moscow, and you, as a Russian taxpayer, can subsidize their dying industry (coal) and the mouth breathers and criminals who still live there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 25, 2015, 07:22:56 PM

Russia has no desire to see Federalization in Ukraine.  While Russia uses that as the official line, the underscore is that Ukraine is currently being run by a bunch of Nazi thieves.  Yes, for the past month I have watched Russian television, had beers with Russian guys and read Russian newspapers.  You speak like an official mouthpiece of the Russian government. But you and I both know the true story.
What does having the beers with Russian's mean in terms of Ukraine? 



...and what is the true story then (according to you)?


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 26, 2015, 05:59:22 PM
More revisionist history from Russia:

http://news.yahoo.com/poles-furious-russia-blames-them-starting-wwii-122545678.html

Apparently the Russian Ambassador to Poland has found new ways to make friends and influence people.  He says that Poland was partially responsible for the onset of WWII by refusing to join joint treaties against Nazi Germany.  He, of course, neglected to mention that Russia and Germany conducted secret meetings and created a secret alliance which destroyed the Polish state at the beginning of the war.

Can you imagine if you were a Pole and reading such a statement how you would feel towards Russia?  Great job, Ambassador!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 27, 2015, 03:44:43 AM
More revisionist history from Russia:

http://news.yahoo.com/poles-furious-russia-blames-them-starting-wwii-122545678.html

Apparently the Russian Ambassador to Poland has found new ways to make friends and influence people.  He says that Poland was partially responsible for the onset of WWII by refusing to join joint treaties against Nazi Germany.  He, of course, neglected to mention that Russia and Germany conducted secret meetings and created a secret alliance which destroyed the Polish state at the beginning of the war.

Can you imagine if you were a Pole and reading such a statement how you would feel towards Russia?  Great job, Ambassador!

Because you don't know the history of WWII I feel an obligation to educate you. Then you'll understand what Ambassador meant, and what Poles know better than you.
Cites from Wikipedia in article Munich Agreement in 1938:
Quote
On 22 May, Juliusz Łukasiewicz, the Polish ambassador to France, told the French Foreign Minister Georges Bonnet that if France moved against Germany in defense of Czechoslovakia: "We shall not move." Łukasiewicz also told Bonnet that Poland would oppose any attempt by Soviet forces to defend Czechoslovakia from Germany. Daladier told Jakob Surits, the Soviet ambassador to France: "Not only can we not count on Polish support but we have no faith that Poland will not strike us in the back."
...
Sequence of events following the Munich Agreement:
1. Germany occupies the Sudetenland (October 1938).
2. Poland annexes Zaolzie, an area with a Polish plurality, over which the two countries had fought a war in 1919 (October 1938).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 27, 2015, 05:02:40 AM
It is you, Belvis who hasn't a clue.

If you are an ambassador, your job is to create goodwill between countries.  Such discussions are the last thing in the world an ambassador should do.   Your ambassador's job is to create avenues of friendship, joint business and cultural outreach.  The lead sponsor of friendship between nations should not be subjecting the nation where he is a guest in to discussions that they were responsible for their own destruction.   Moreover, Poland is not too keen on the communist yolk and dictatorship your country threw over their country for 50 years.  It would be additional reasons not to open a discussion as to who was responsible for WWII.

Your mentality is that of the Russian leadership.  You think you can offend, rob, kill people and expect them to have good relations with you.

A perfect example of this is your leadership's response to Ukraine taking away the Ukrainian market from Russian airlines.  They say it is an insanity by the Ukrainian government.  To everyone else in the world that is watching your country beat the shit out of Ukraine, they say it is about time.

If you can understand the last paragraph you will begin to understand how the world perceives you and how wrong your ambassador was to even broach such a topic.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 27, 2015, 08:49:12 AM
  It would be additional reasons not to open a discussion as to who was responsible for WWII.
As I understand the discussion was started not by the Ambassador. Poles like to be in position blaming Russia for their misfortunes, they like to recall 1939 but lose memory about 1938.
So, truth and only the truth.  Knowing the historical truth will prevent many troubles.

A perfect example of this is your leadership's response to Ukraine taking away the Ukrainian market from Russian airlines.  They say it is an insanity by the Ukrainian government.  To everyone else in the world that is watching your country beat the shit out of Ukraine, they say it is about time.
I think too this act of Ukrainian government is an insanity. Since Russia-Ukrainian flights were populated by Ukrainians for 70%, these Ukrainians will enjoy train travels in near future. They can't avoid the travels because they work in Russia.  Of course, I don't cast doubt that Ukrainian government has full authority to impose problems on its own citizens.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on September 27, 2015, 09:07:00 AM

I think too this act of Ukrainian government is an insanity.

As compared to your government's act of driving bulldozers over seized Italian cheese?
 :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 27, 2015, 09:21:56 AM
As I understand the discussion was started not by the Ambassador. Poles like to be in position blaming Russia for their misfortunes, they like to recall 1939 but lose memory about 1938.
So, truth and only the truth.  Knowing the historical truth will prevent many troubles.
I think too this act of Ukrainian government is an insanity. Since Russia-Ukrainian flights were populated by Ukrainians for 70%, these Ukrainians will enjoy train travels in near future. They can't avoid the travels because they work in Russia.  Of course, I don't cast doubt that Ukrainian government has full authority to impose problems on its own citizens.

Welcome to the Russian Women Discussion Forum, ladies and gentlemen.  Russian will never, ever, get it.  When you are a diplomat and you insult your host country, do not expect to be liked, or, for that matter, even reasoned with.  Russians deal with issues with a sledge hammer. 

Belvis is one of those people who typify the Russian mentality.  He will defend indefensible actions until the cows come home.  Rather than saying, 'yeah, our ambassador was pretty out there discussing Russia's actions in invading Poland as a self defense measure (yes I did read his entire comments) and he should have KEPT HIS MOUTH SHUT.  Belvis will try and come up with ways to make the ambassador's actions appropriate, particularly in the eyes of other Russians. 

As for the Poles, do you have any idea how much those people hate the Russians?  There is a sub group that still wishes for the old communist days, but that subset is dying away.  What is left is pure hatred. Particularly with what the Poles see Russia doing in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on September 27, 2015, 10:04:59 AM
Because you don't know the history of WWII I feel an obligation to educate you. Then you'll understand what Ambassador meant, and what Poles know better than you.
Cites from Wikipedia in article Munich Agreement in 1938:

...And it appears you don't know the history of post WW1.  ;)

You do understand that the reason the Poles refused to agree to militarily intervene in Czechoslovakia was that they understood that the majority of Czechoslovakians were of German ethnicity (see Sudetenland), were pro-Nazi and would side with the German annexation (as they in fact did) when it happened( see Munich Agreement).

The Polish government had already determined that the treaties France and the UK had signed to defend Czechoslovakia were not going to be honored, essentially garbage, the Czechoslovakians had already been betrayed to appease Hitler and should  the Nazi's invade (which they did) that France and the Britain would not go to war (which they didn't).

...Czechoslovakia[edit]

See also: German occupation of Czechoslovakia

The term Western betrayal (Czech: zrada Západu) was coined after the 1938 Munich Conference when Czechoslovakia was forced to cede the mostly German-populated Sudetenland to Germany. The region contained the Czechoslovak border fortifications and means of viable defence against German invasion.[15][16][17] Germany invaded and occupied Czechoslovakia a year later.

Along with Italy and Nazi Germany, the Munich treaty was signed by Britain and France - Czechoslovakia's allies. Czechoslovakia was allied by treaty with France, and Great Britain was in turn allied with France, so both countries would be obliged to help Czechoslovakia if it was attacked.[citation needed] The Munich treaty and the subsequent occupation exposed Czechoslovak citizens to the Nazi regime and its atrocities.

Czech politicians joined the newspapers in regularly using the term Western betrayal and it, along with the associated feelings, became a stereotype among Czechs. The Czech terms Mnichov (Munich), Mnichovská zrada (Munich betrayal), Mnichovský diktát (Munich Dictate) and zrada spojenců (betrayal of the allies) were coined at the same time and have the same meaning. Poet František Halas published a poem with verse about "ringing bell of betrayal".[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal

Now, this should remind readers of the current situation in Ukraine with your own country's criminal aggression...

Agreements to defend Ukraine thrown aside by the West to appease a ruthless dictator (Putin).

As myself and other's here have eluded to; Churchill's prophetic admonition is as apt now as it was then except we can include NATO and the EU as well...

Then Member of Parliament for Epping, Winston Churchill said: "Britain and France had to choose between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war".

Brass


 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 27, 2015, 10:49:04 AM
As for the Poles, do you have any idea how much those people hate the Russians?  There is a sub group that still wishes for the old communist days, but that subset is dying away.  What is left is pure hatred.
Probably the Poles you were communicating want you to believe they hate Russians.
It's like to say Mexicans hate Americans  :D The real situation as usually is more complicated.
1. Poles have a well-grounded anxiety towards Russian because of our mutual history. They feel the same, may be to less extent, towards Germans.  But it's very far from what you believe and called hatred.
2. Many Poles feel kind of envy to Russians because they remember their glorious days of their Empire, Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Later Russia had become the center of power in Slavic world, and Poles regret they missed their very real chance to be such a center. View this as a competition.
3. Any state should worry about its own state interests, first of all. Then it can worry about what other states think about.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 27, 2015, 11:00:33 AM
Then Member of Parliament for Epping, Winston Churchill said: "Britain and France had to choose between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war".
You can save the face of Westеrn democracies enlisting in Ukrainian  volunteer battalions. You'll get chance to fight Russian aggression. I suppose it would be more honorable act than instigate others to die in the Ukrainian war to appease you or your wife.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 27, 2015, 11:10:17 AM
Probably the Poles you were communicating want you to believe they hate Russians.
It's like to say Mexicans hate Americans  :D The real situation as usually is more complicated.
1. Poles have a well-grounded anxiety towards Russian because of our mutual history. They feel the same, may be to less extent, towards Germans.  But it's very far from what you believe and called hatred.
2. Many Poles feel kind of envy to Russians because they remember their glorious days of their Empire, Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Later Russia had become the center of power in Slavic world, and Poles regret they missed their very real chance to be such a center. View this as a competition.
3. Any state should worry about its own state interests, first of all. Then it can worry about what other states think about.

Their mutual history includes five invasions from Russia.  What you seem to forget is that many of these people actually had family that were killed by Russian aggression.  Most recently, the suspicious circumstances relating to the death of the Polish government in a plane crash.  Not to mention Katyn.

You're gonna have to work overtime tonight, Belvis, to have people think that Poles think anything other than disdain for Russia.

Your disinformation campaign is in full bloom this evening.  I hope they're paying you enough.

Now, here is a direct question for you, Belvis.  Why does your writing consist of different writing styles.  Anyone reading the posts up above will understand what I am saying.  I think there are different people operating this account.  It was amazing that in the last few posts, your English skills have picked up considerably.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 27, 2015, 11:25:41 AM
.

Now, here is a direct question for you, Belvis.  Why does your writing consist of different writing styles.  Anyone reading the posts up above will understand what I am saying.  I think there are different people operating this account.  It was amazing that in the last few posts, your English skills have picked up considerably.


Quite an accusation you make to Belvis....no evidence to support it of course (what writing style difference?)....I get the feeling you just don't like what he is saying. Why not just make your case without accusing him of being multiple persons? 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on September 27, 2015, 11:33:59 AM
You can save the face of Westеrn democracies enlisting in Ukrainian  volunteer battalions. You'll get chance to fight Russian aggression. I suppose it would be more honorable act than instigate others to die in the Ukrainian war to appease you or your wife.

You assume too much. I have no need of enlisting in a Ukrainian Volunteer Bn. If there is war in Eastern Europe I would be called to duty as I'm still a member of my country's supplementary ready reserve.

As both my sons are in uniform and I would most certainly push to be sent into theatre I doubt you could class me as "instigate others" as I'm fully aware of what it is and the possible repercussions to my loved ones of what I advocate.

However, I also understand that this is a situation wherein if Russia's criminal aggression is not stopped now it'll be more difficult to stop later. As with Hitler's Germany 75 years ago, everyday we (the western democracies) dance with peace agreements, resets and false diplomacy to appease your dictator, Putin utilizes that time to prepare and strengthen his military for further criminal aggression.

Edit: Good deflection though. I almost forgot to post that your comment in no way clarifies your original disinformative post regarding pre WW2 European history. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 27, 2015, 11:49:16 AM
Their mutual history includes five invasions from Russia. 

Historically, Poland invaded Russia as well.  The Poles weren't choirboys.


ETA - The Bolshevik animosity toward the Poles, by the old school Bolsheviks, is the result of the Poles slaughtering Bolsheviks during the Civil War.  The Poles didn't take POW's. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 27, 2015, 11:50:23 AM
I suppose it would be more honorable act than instigate others to die in the Ukrainian war to appease you or your wife.


Brass isn't married.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on September 27, 2015, 12:43:07 PM
Brass isn't married.

My FSB profile documents must need updating. Get on that will you, Belvis?... :P

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 27, 2015, 01:34:30 PM
Historically, Poland invaded Russia as well.  The Poles weren't choirboys.


ETA - The Bolshevik animosity toward the Poles, by the old school Bolsheviks, is the result of the Poles slaughtering Bolsheviks during the Civil War.  The Poles didn't take POW's.

Yup. Early 1600s.  And, in reality, one time.  Recent history is all one sided.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 27, 2015, 01:38:28 PM
That's not entirely accurate.  Most of the Polish-Russian battles were played out in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 27, 2015, 01:54:57 PM
Quote
Because you don't know the history of WWII I feel an obligation to educate you. Then you'll understand what Ambassador meant, and what Poles know better than you.

A lot of windy jibberish to deflect the real issue. Despite the posting of several Wiki paragraphs, please remind me why Poles should be comfortable with the secret pact between two equally Great and Evil Satans (Stalin and Hitler)?


As to Jone only taking with the wrong Poles, perhaps the problem isn't with Jone, but with you. Despite the nonsensical doublespeak about the "friendship of nations" (I offer the fountain at VDNKh as exhibit A), Jone could offer you a million dollars for ever Pole you found who loves Russia, but at the end of the day you would owe him money.

Belvis, someday you should make a pilgrimage to some of the bloodiest execution and burial places for Poles inside Russia. You could start in Smolensk (Katyn), then on to миедное (Miednoe), and from there to Осташков (Ostashkov). Thousands, yes thousands, of poles (from officers to doctors to businessmen to university professors) were shuttled by train to be executed in Russia. You could even take a tour bus from Poland and join some friendly Poles on the journey. I'd suggest that you identify yourself as a brother Russian, you know, for friendship sake and all.

Of course, we must be fair. So, after that tour (if you survive the encounter with those ultra friendly Poles) you should book a tour for Russians to view the burial places of thousands of Russians who were herded onto boxcars and shipped to Poland for execution. "But yes, of course," Чебурашка, ...such a tour doesn't exist!

Why might that be, Belvis?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on September 27, 2015, 02:06:45 PM
You assume too much. I have no need of enlisting in a Ukrainian Volunteer Bn. If there is war in Eastern Europe I would be called to duty as I'm still a member of my country's supplementary ready reserve.

As both my sons are in uniform and I would most certainly push to be sent into theatre I doubt you could class me as "instigate others" as I'm fully aware of what it is and the possible repercussions to my loved ones of what I advocate.

However, I also understand that this is a situation wherein if Russia's criminal aggression is not stopped now it'll be more difficult to stop later. As with Hitler's Germany 75 years ago, everyday we (the western democracies) dance with peace agreements, resets and false diplomacy to appease your dictator, Putin utilizes that time to prepare and strengthen his military for further criminal aggression.

Edit: Good deflection though. I almost forgot to post that your comment in no way clarifies your original disinformative post regarding pre WW2 European history. ;)

Brass

You are absolutely correct in this regard.  It seems after a couple generations go by, there are no lessons learned from history.  Had Germany and Japan not been stopped in WWII, we might all be speaking German or Japanese.   If we had not been so successful during the cold war, we might be speaking Russian.

It seems that human nature lends itself to the rise of dictators and tyrants bent on conquering additional lands.   It is the responsibility of the rest of the world to keep them in check.  As far as I am concerned, anyone without the balls to defend their nation and assist their neighbors deserve to be ruled  by the aggressive force.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 27, 2015, 02:31:50 PM
.  Russian will never, ever, get it.  When you are a diplomat and you insult your host country, do not expect to be liked


RUSSIAN DIPLOMAT =  Oxymoron

 :)


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on September 27, 2015, 02:52:41 PM
You are absolutely correct in this regard.  It seems after a couple generations go by, there are no lessons learned from history.  Had Germany and Japan not been stopped in WWII, we might all be speaking German or Japanese.   If we had not been so successful during the cold war, we might be speaking Russian.

It seems that human nature lends itself to the rise of dictators and tyrants bent on conquering additional lands.   It is the responsibility of the rest of the world to keep them in check.  As far as I am concerned, anyone without the balls to defend their nation and assist their neighbors deserve to be ruled  by the aggressive force.

...Indeed. +1

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 27, 2015, 03:27:05 PM
  It was amazing that in the last few posts, your English skills have picked up considerably.
Thank you. I make posts here to preserve my English from rusting. Very good method to be in touch with live language.

Despite the posting of several Wiki paragraphs, please remind me why Poles should be comfortable with the secret pact between two equally Great and Evil Satans (Stalin and Hitler)?

I don't know. Since you raise this question you'd better to answer it. Or you think Poles knew about the pact in 1938?

Jone could offer you a million dollars for ever Pole you found who loves Russia, but at the end of the day you would owe him money.

Certainly, you underestimate the power of money. I'm pretty sure I can find many Poles who will love Russia for a million dollars :D

Belvis, someday you should make a pilgrimage to some of the bloodiest execution and burial places for Poles inside Russia. You could start in Smolensk (Katyn), then on to миедное (Miednoe), and from there to Осташков (Ostashkov). Thousands, yes thousands, of poles (from officers to doctors to businessmen to university professors) were shuttled by train to be executed in Russia. You could even take a tour bus from Poland and join some friendly Poles on the journey. I'd suggest that you identify yourself as a brother Russian, you know, for friendship sake and all.

It seems you have fallen the victim of your own propaganda :) I worked with Poles, thousands Russians live in Poland. People care about utilitarian things , today and now, they don't think about the graves. Do you contact with ordinary men? I begin to suspect you  believe that Russians hate Germans because of WWII :-\

Brass isn't married.
It does not matter, married or not. Cherchez la femme 8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on September 27, 2015, 04:23:54 PM
More relevant than old wars in Poland, Sixty Minutes will broadcast in less than an hour its interview with Putin.  Topics:  Russia's involvement in Syria and the Middle East plus Putin's opinion of Obama and Americans in general.  An interview with Trump follows Putin. 

Belvis, because Putin is supporting Bashar al Assad, I guess you too think Assad is a worthy leader of Syrian people, a real  "lion" not just in name.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 27, 2015, 08:09:08 PM
Thank you. I make posts here to preserve my English from rusting. Very good method to be in touch with live language.

I don't know. Since you raise this question you'd better to answer it. Or you think Poles knew about the pact in 1938?

Certainly, you underestimate the power of money. I'm pretty sure I can find many Poles who will love Russia for a million dollars :D

It seems you have fallen the victithe m of your own propaganda :) I worked with Poles, thousands Russians live in Poland. People care about utilitarian things , today and now, they don't think about the graves. Do you contact with ordinary men? I begin to suspect you  believe that Russians hate Germans because of WWII :-\
It does not matter, married or not. Cherchez la femme 8)

This entire segment started when I posted that the Russian Ambassador to Poland included comments in a presentation he was making that the Polish Nation was partially responsible for the beginning of WWII and the subsequent secret pact and invasion by the Soviet Union, in Russia, was done for self defense purposes.  He further went on to say that the reason that the Soviet Union killed all of the Poles at the end of the war was because Russia wanted a friendly nation next to it.  Here, then, was a partial response to the Ambassador's comments:

"The narrative presented by the highest official representative of the Russian state in Poland challenges historical truth and invokes some of the most mendacious interpretations of events, as resorted to during Stalinist and communist years," the foreign affairs ministry said in a statement.

Polish Foreign Minister Grzegorz Schetyna said that he would summon the Russian ambassador on Monday.

Warsaw also strongly objected to the ambassador's attempt to justify "the anti-Polish actions by the Soviet 'liberators'... in the arrest, deportation, and execution of Poles.

"We regard this as a lack of respect for the memory of victims of NKVD (secret police) crimes, perpetrated on the orders of the highest Soviet authorities," the statement added.


So, our resident commentator, Belvis, has stated that the Ambassador was goaded into such a response and defends the actions of his nation's ambassador.  Tell us again, Belvis, how this ambassador was promoting good will between two countries.  Or was he acting directly at the request of the Kremlin, in reminding Poland of how many Poles died in WWII as a covert threat that Russia is still the big kid on the block?  Again, I say, GREAT DIPLOMACY.  Will win Russia many friends.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 27, 2015, 09:10:05 PM
This entire segment started when I posted that the Russian Ambassador to Poland included comments in a presentation he was making that the Polish Nation was partially responsible for the beginning of WWII and the subsequent secret pact and invasion by the Soviet Union, in Russia, was done for self defense purposes.  He further went on to say that the reason that the Soviet Union killed all of the Poles at the end of the war was because Russia wanted a friendly nation next to it.  Here, then, was a partial response to the Ambassador's comments:

"The narrative presented by the highest official representative of the Russian state in Poland challenges historical truth and invokes some of the most mendacious interpretations of events, as resorted to during Stalinist and communist years," the foreign affairs ministry said in a statement.

Polish Foreign Minister Grzegorz Schetyna said that he would summon the Russian ambassador on Monday.

Warsaw also strongly objected to the ambassador's attempt to justify "the anti-Polish actions by the Soviet 'liberators'... in the arrest, deportation, and execution of Poles.

"We regard this as a lack of respect for the memory of victims of NKVD (secret police) crimes, perpetrated on the orders of the highest Soviet authorities," the statement added.


So, our resident commentator, Belvis, has stated that the Ambassador was goaded into such a response and defends the actions of his nation's ambassador.  Tell us again, Belvis, how this ambassador was promoting good will between two countries.  Or was he acting directly at the request of the Kremlin, in reminding Poland of how many Poles died in WWII as a covert threat that Russia is still the big kid on the block?  Again, I say, GREAT DIPLOMACY.  Will win Russia many friends.


Our resident 'historian' (you) have been corrected several times on this thread by people who seem to know better. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 27, 2015, 09:18:23 PM
I didn't correct Boe because I happen to agree with her.  I also happen to agree with Mendy.  What is your point, Fathertime?  Are you stating that because I didn't debate with either of these people that I am wrong in my assertions?  Which ones? 

Perhaps the Ambassador didn't say the things he said?  Perhaps the quotes that I put up from the Polish officials weren't real?  Try and stick to the post rather than trying to deflect the topic as Belvis has tried to do.   You two should get married.  Every time you read something disagreeable, you try to take the discussion off topic.

Can you actually respond to the comments by the Ambassador or is that beyond your ability which is to snipe at the edges?   Do you even care or are you just here to troll the forum for your own amusement?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 27, 2015, 09:52:04 PM
I didn't correct Boe because I happen to agree with her.  I also happen to agree with Mendy.  What is your point, Fathertime?  Are you stating that because I didn't debate with either of these people that I am wrong in my assertions?  Which ones? 

Perhaps the Ambassador didn't say the things he said?  Perhaps the quotes that I put up from the Polish officials weren't real?  Try and stick to the post rather than trying to deflect the topic as Belvis has tried to do.   You two should get married.  Every time you read something disagreeable, you try to take the discussion off topic.

Can you actually respond to the comments by the Ambassador or is that beyond your ability which is to snipe at the edges?   Do you even care or are you just here to troll the forum for your own amusement?


I'm happy some people here know enough to correct your misrepresentations (Or some might just take what you say as fact)...so for you to try harangue Belvis even going so far as taking personal shots, while making misrepresentations (that keep getting corrected) of your own doesn't seem right, hence my comments.   I'm not interested in marrying Belvis, but since you brought it up, go ahead and marry him yourself, since that is where your mind is. 


I don't really have a comment on the history you are discussing, but I know for certain,given what I've read thus far, I wouldn't take your version of it, as anything close to fact.  Hearing from several sides has been interesting.   


Please carry on.  Be accurate, and avoid unnecessary personal shots, and you should be fine.      :) [size=78%] [/size]


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 27, 2015, 10:23:12 PM
Which assertion was wrong?  I stated that Russia has invaded Poland five times.  Boe said that neither's hands were clean.  She is correct.  So was I.  I stated that none were recent history.  She mentioned the civil war.  But then she stated that most of the fighting was done in Ukraine. Which is also correct.  The only invading of the other country has been done by the Soviets in recent history. 

I had no reason to correct Boe, but if I wanted to I would point out the term invade, which I used.  The Polish-Soviet War in 1920 occurred almost exclusively in Ukraine.

Boe was accurate.  So was I.  Just because you don't know the history involved doesn't stop you from throwing out your crap, once again, trolling me.   Congrats, you tried again to steer the topic away from the Ambassador's  comments which you now admit you have no desire to comment on.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 27, 2015, 10:38:43 PM
   Just because you don't know the history involved doesn't stop you from throwing out your crap, once again, trolling me.   Congrats, you tried again to steer the topic away from the Ambassador's  comments which you now admit you have no desire to comment on.


Who started throwing out the personal shots at Belvis?  That was YOU.


 As for me, I am entitled to read at times without commenting on certain subject matter. 


Which assertion was wrong?  I stated that Russia has invaded Poland five times.  Boe said that neither's hands were clean.  She is correct.  So was I.  I stated that none were recent history.  She mentioned the civil war.  But then she stated that most of the fighting was done in Ukraine. Which is also correct.  The only invading of the other country has been done by the Soviets in recent history. 

I had no reason to correct Boe, but if I wanted to I would point out the term invade, which I used.  The Polish-Soviet War in 1920 occurred almost exclusively in Ukraine.
 


Without outside posters correcting your comments, your one-sided points were a misrepresentation.  You were right to take your lumps, as they were given gently enough. 
I don't think you should be treating Belvis so poorly (personal shots) for stating what he believes is correct and helping to explain/correct your inaccuracies, while explaining his own Russian viewpoint. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 27, 2015, 11:11:02 PM
Unfortunately, you still don't get what's happening in the world right now. 

Russia is trying to re-assert itself on the world stage.  In doing so, it is using Soviet tactics that remind those who remember of the great lie perpetrated by the Russian government and on the Soviet people.  Today we see that lie again.  Belvis is a proponent of it.  Belvis disputes that Russia is in Ukraine.  Whenever anything is displayed against the Russian government, such as the inane and infuriating comments Russia's ambassador to Poland made, Belvis jumps to defend both him and his comments. 

Belvis demonstrates the same qualities that are being used by the Troll Factory in Peter.  It is not too difficult to imagine that any digital repositories of Russian/Western relations would have representation of that disinformation.

The user, Belvis, took immediate issue with the posting of the Ambassador's comments and that it was offensive to the Poles.  Rather than accept that it had infuriated the Poles, which it did, he chose to try and assuage the membership and misdirect them using mendacity and skewed history which was quickly refuted by other members.  I chose to point out that this misdirection and set of lies used to prop up the Ambassador corresponds directly to what a paid troll would say.  And, yes, I believe Belvis is a paid troll.

I have said repeatedly that his tactics and remarks are that of a paid troll. 

Should you wish to defend the user, Belvis, have at it.

Fathertime, yes, even you have a roll on this forum.  Without you, we'd all be agreeing with each other.   Readership would drop considerably.   But I refuse to support someone that I believe is a paid troll (or trolls), whose sole purpose is to misdirect a forum to the end of Russia's political lies.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 27, 2015, 11:54:10 PM
Belvis' views are not out of line with what many, perhaps most, Russians in Russia believe. 

I understand what he is saying about history, and his view is in line with what was taught in the USSR, and what is still commonly believed.  Poland did, in fact, make a pact with Germany in the belief such a treaty would protect it from invasion.  Stalin did believe Hitler would not invade the USSR, so strongly did he believe this, that he refused to believe both Molotov and Victor Sorge, who reported most of Operation Barbarossa.  What is glossed over, of course, is the invasion of Eastern Poland (predominantly ethnically Ukrainian), and the tens of thousands who were killed by the Soviets in the interwar period after the Soviet invasion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 28, 2015, 12:50:24 AM
Quote
I don't know. Since you raise this question you'd better to answer it.

I don't need to answer something that I asked. But, I can understand why you are afraid to answer it.

I also understand why you are afraid to take a tour, which are fairly common. If you knew Poles, you'd know this.

So you post to keep your native English tongue from rusting. Interesting.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 28, 2015, 12:53:30 AM
Mendy,  I noted the same thing.  I was actually wandering about it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 28, 2015, 01:04:28 AM
Belvis' views are not out of line with what many, perhaps most, Russians in Russia believe. 

I understand what he is saying about history, and his view is in line with what was taught in the USSR, and what is still commonly believed.  Poland did, in fact, make a pact with Germany in the belief such a treaty would protect it from invasion.  Stalin did believe Hitler would not invade the USSR, so strongly did he believe this, that he refused to believe both Molotov and Victor Sorge, who reported most of Operation Barbarossa.  What is glossed over, of course, is the invasion of Eastern Poland (predominantly ethnically Ukrainian), and the tens of thousands who were killed by the Soviets in the interwar period after the Soviet invasion.

Stalin believed that Sorge's report was disinformation perpetrated by the Nazis.  His reward?  Imprisonment and eventual death. 

Boe, I have known many Russians.  My perspective is unique in that, up until a year ago, did business with them.  The attitudes displayed this year are like nothing in my history of knowing the Russian people.  There is a huge and active disinformation campaign targeted at the Russian people, themselves.  The problem is that the rest of the world sees it for what it is.

One of the sites I watch, with regularity, is the site that evaluates the Ukrainian conflict from the perspective of social media.  It is interesting to watch the quieting down of all confrontation as Putin gets ready to address the United Nations.  Of course, one of the things he will ask for is the elimination of sanctions.  I would guess he will pose this as a new statement of where things are, etc.

For the record, on an individual basis, the Russians are not suffering much.  On a national scale, the Kremlin put aside a huge rainy day fund that it is exhausting now due to oil prices and the lack of foreign investment.  When that money is gone, Russia will have no choice but to either rescind its empire goals or to lash out in a full scale war of acquisition.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 28, 2015, 01:31:21 AM
Kind of a funny thing happened over the weekend.  A Russian TV station stated that John Tefft, Ambassador to Russia, attended the Opposition rally.  They displayed an (obviously) photo-shopped picture of him.  The US Embassy decided to have a little fun with it and tweeted the following:

“Ambassador Tefft spent the day off at home,” the embassy said in a tweet. “But thanks to Photoshop [he] can end up wherever.”

(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPbFvYGUAAARE2q.jpg)

Here is the ambassador in the original picture and three photo-shopped ones.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 28, 2015, 01:35:40 AM
Teft is a cool customer, and much more ready for the challenge than the failed McFaul. That was a dirty trick, and the Kremlin has done nothing to defend Teft--telling in and of itself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 28, 2015, 04:43:21 AM
So you post to keep your native English tongue from rusting. Interesting.
Mendy, you possess the nice talent to make compliments.  :) I understand your success with women.

Russia is trying to re-assert itself on the world stage.
The plain truth. I hope you don't consider it as the indecent activity  :D

Belvis disputes that Russia is in Ukraine.  Whenever anything is displayed against the Russian government, such as the inane and infuriating comments Russia's ambassador to Poland made, Belvis jumps to defend both him and his comments. 
Your quota for truth is exhausted. Never contested the Russian involvement in Ukraine. And why do you distort my lesson of Polish history? I did not expect  gratitude from you, but you could recognize my efforts in uncovering for you some  dark pages  of history you did not know about.

And, yes, I believe Belvis is a paid troll.

You should clarify yourself. You believed some time ago I'm a FSB agent. FSB agent can't be called a paid troll, it would be disrespectfully to a man on duty  8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on September 28, 2015, 06:01:35 AM
Regarding Putin's interview with 60 Minutes, he said nothing new.  Perhaps his speech today at the UN will have more substance. 

Some key points:

-  The collapse of the USSR was a great tragedy because suddenly 25 million Russians found themselves residing outside their country.

-  Russia is increasing its military presence in Syria to support the "legitimate government", a long-term ally.  He cited Libya as an example of the problems with displacing the "legitimate" government.  And he implicitly contrasted that with Ukraine where the "legitimate government" was overthrown.

-  He mentioned Obama's failure to stop ISIS.

60 Minutes pushed hard that Putin was with the KGB, and "once with the KGB, always with the KCB."   Such seems pointless in my opinion, and Putin easily dismissed it as not important, saying he learned some skills there.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 28, 2015, 06:51:58 AM
Belvis -

Oh, when did they stop paying people in the FSB?   

Nice deflect on the English as first language observation.  There is no one on the forum who believes that English is your first language.  Incidentally, the word is 'Wondering'.  Not 'Wandering'.  As in, 'we were wondering why you claim that English is your first language'.

But was cute deflect.  Why do you deflect?

As for your continued historical argument that your Ambassador was correct and, therefore, was correct in telling the Poles that they were partially responsible for WWII?  Well, you are as deluded as your Ambassador.  That is not the way you treat your host country, regardless of your interpretation of history.

Since there is no way to prove who you are, I will remain in my belief that you are a paid troll.  That is my right as a member of the forum to believe whatever I choose.  Unless, of course, I happen to be in Russia.  Then I will be subjected to a constant barrage of propaganda.

Russia is on a course to conflict.  You talk about history and yet have not learned its lessons.  V.V. Putin exclaims that there  are 25 million Russians living outside of Russia: Gator, I saw the interview.  Thanks for the tip.  We have seen Putin's protracted solution.  Russia will attempt to regain territory that was part of the former Soviet Union piece by piece and displace people (check with the Crimean Tartars) while doing so.  The last time we saw someone attempt to do the same, WWII erupted.  Germany's unquenchable desire for land was the true cause of the 2nd World War.  It was not Poland's or any other country's lack of political alliances. 

I wonder what the Russians called the invasion and occupation of Poland and the Baltics in 1939?  It wasn't called the Great Patriotic War then.   






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 28, 2015, 07:09:43 AM
Unfortunately, you still don't get what's happening in the world right now. 

Russia is trying to re-assert itself on the world stage.   


We (the US) are near bankrupt in some respects....Others need to take the stage.  I don't think we have done too well overall when we have had the floor.





Fathertime, yes, even you have a roll on this forum.  Without you, we'd all be agreeing with each other.   Readership would drop considerably.   But I refuse to support someone that I believe is a paid troll (or trolls), whose sole purpose is to misdirect a forum to the end of Russia's political lies.


Happy to be your useful idiot then.   There used to be quite a few posters coming from different angles, although most have been run off by the insults.  I don't think Belvis is a paid troll, he is merely expressing himself.  It seems that practically anybody who doesn't agree is either an idiot, troll, or wannabe Russian. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 28, 2015, 07:38:07 AM
Because you don't know the history of WWII I feel an obligation to educate you. Then you'll understand what Ambassador meant, and what Poles know better than you.
Cites from Wikipedia in article Munich Agreement in 1938:


Hi Beavis, that's bullshit.


The territory that Poland "demanded" from the Czech was already theirs when the Treaty of Versailles was signed after WWI. You remember WWI, right? Or that didn't exist either?


Anyway, when things were getting hostile and the Czechs had moved their army to face the NAZIs Poland decided to take what was theirs originally and demanded this territory be returned to them.


Now, here is the irony. Czechoslovakia, also being formed as a result of the Treaty of Versailles, was quite socialistic at the time, the same as Hungary and had sympathies towards the USSR. Poland, OTOH was very nationalistic (is the Pope Catholic?) and not too keen of the Soviet mentality. Still, they could have banded together against Hitler but, NO, they stuck to their principles. Better to be invaded by a fascist country than to band with a neighbor they've know for millenia to fight a common enemy, right?


Let me ask you, do you believe Alaska is still Russian territory? Not that Putin can do anything about it without getting his sorry ass kicked.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 28, 2015, 07:42:32 AM

We (the US) are near bankrupt in some respects....Others need to take the stage.  I don't think we have done too well overall when we have had the floor.



Are you a Conservative hardliner? Because these are definitely the useful idiots who prattle this nonsense scripted to them by the Corporations.


Happy to be your useful idiot then.   There used to be quite a few posters coming from different angles, although most have been run off by the insults.  I don't think Belvis is a paid troll, he is merely expressing himself.  It seems that practically anybody who doesn't agree is either an idiot, troll, or wannabe Russian. 


Fathertime!


Keep in mind I didn't call you one, just politely asked if you were one.  ;)


Beavis may or may not be a paid troll, which is irrelevant to me. However, I will call him on any bullshit he posts.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 28, 2015, 07:50:43 AM

Are you a Conservative hardliner? Because these are definitely the useful idiots who prattle this nonsense scripted to them by the Corporations.



How do we manage our giant debt going forward?  Actually I think there are ways, but in certain respects we are not moving in that direction currently. 


No,  not a Conservative hardliner.  Is it corporations that are scripting this?  I hadn't heard that before, how does it benefit a corporation to assert the nation has a serious financial issue?


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 28, 2015, 07:52:02 AM

How do we manage our giant debt going forward?  Actually I think there are ways, but in certain respects we are not moving in that direction currently. 


No,  not a Conservative hardliner.  Is it corporations that are scripting this?  I hadn't heard that before, how does it benefit a corporation to assert the nation has a serious financial issue?


Fathertime!


Just read financial news and get updated.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 28, 2015, 09:05:02 AM
As for your continued historical argument that your Ambassador was correct and, therefore, was correct in telling the Poles that they were partially responsible for WWII?
Skipping all your emotional post I'd like to continue with the sentence above.
The  Ambassador was correct that Poles were partially responsible for WWII because of their position in 1938. Was he correct in telling this to Poles? That's another issue, I'd prefer to avoid discussing the  moral aspects and concentrate on history.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 28, 2015, 09:10:26 AM
Skipping all your emotional post I'd like to continue with the sentence above.
The  Ambassador was correct that Poles were partially responsible for WWII because of their position in 1938. Was he correct in telling this to Poles? That's another issue, I'd prefer to avoid discussing the  moral aspects and concentrate on history.


Sorry, but your ambassador is also full of shit. He is wrong and he knows it. But that's another issue, right? ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 28, 2015, 09:22:20 AM
Yes, of course you would not wish to have an opinion on whether an Ambassador, the leading representative of your country, should tell a country that they were:

1.) Partially responsible for WWII.  2.) That Russia invaded the country because they wanted a buffer between themselves and Hitler and 3.) That the reason they killed so many Poles after the war was because Russia wanted a 'Friendly Neighbor' (which Russia could control).

My post was that this is the wrong thing to tell a host country.  You stated that the Ambassador was right.  Perhaps you should be called into the Foreign Office of Poland today and explain why you think it is important to tell Poland in a discussion group these things.  I'm sure you would fare no better than your ambassador did today.

As for the history, it is blah, blah, blah.  Hitler wanted the territory.  He was going to get it.  Poland, in between Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, actually sided with the Germans.  Poland knew that Stalin had designs on the Sovietization of Poland (which was begun only one week after the invasion was completed). 

Your argument, should you wish to continue, flies directly in the face of your current government.  All of Europe is united against your invasion of Ukraine.  They have created sanctions.

Your argument was that if Poland had united with Russia and Czechoslovakia, and any other nations that could be rounded up, would have prevented Germany and Russia from kicking off the invasion of Poland, and the European version of WWII?  Then, with your reasoning, Europe should be able to back Putin off his grandiose plans for Soviet Union, 2.0. 

I guess we will wait and see. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on September 28, 2015, 09:36:05 AM
Belvis, there is nothing wrong if you choose to  debate to practice your English if not your debating skills.  You do understand that this is not a debating contest where a debater gains points by artfully making "black" into  "gray" if not "white." 

It is good to hear the Kremlin perspective and I appreciate how you have done this for a long time at RWD,  especially if there is some gray.  In this case, this is clearly black and white which makes you like the defense attorney taking far-fetched  positions to try and impart an element of doubt regarding his  obviously guilty client. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 28, 2015, 09:53:27 AM
Just watched Putin's UN speech.  He re-iterated his oft stated position on Ukraine.  He said that a foreign country's military created a coupe.  He also said that this country (the US) started the civil war there.

What a bunch of crap.

He did not mention invading Krim or the invasion of Eastern Ukraine.  He failed to mention that the same legislators who were in power before Maidan are the same ones there now.  (Except, of course, from Krim and parts of Donbas and Lughansk.)

More of the Big Russian Lie.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 28, 2015, 10:45:51 AM

Just read financial news and get updated.
I read the financial news all the time.  I've concluded we have a serious financial problem going forward.  Why are you convinced this is a corporate line?

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 28, 2015, 01:42:34 PM
I read the financial news all the time.  I've concluded we have a serious financial problem going forward.  Why are you convinced this is a corporate line?

Fathertime!


If you want to hear what the pigs are discussing at the trough, you have to wallow in the filth to get a closer point of view.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 28, 2015, 02:09:47 PM

If you want to hear what the pigs are discussing at the trough, you have to wallow in the filth to get a closer point of view.  ;)


Well that is cute, but apparently you believe the corporations want us to believe the nation has a severe financial problem...but you don't believe it is actually true.   I may see where you are going with this, but it would be nice if you came right out and said it.


 I do think owing close to 19trillion is a major problem, and will be pretty harmful at some point, as it continues to rise.  Interest rates going up now, will cost a lot of additional money on the debt...maybe that is a good thing...but it does cause an array of problems.


Fathertime!     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 28, 2015, 06:24:47 PM

Well that is cute, but apparently you believe the corporations want us to believe the nation has a severe financial problem...but you don't believe it is actually true.   I may see where you are going with this, but it would be nice if you came right out and said it.


 I do think owing close to 19trillion is a major problem, and will be pretty harmful at some point, as it continues to rise.  Interest rates going up now, will cost a lot of additional money on the debt...maybe that is a good thing...but it does cause an array of problems.


Fathertime!     


How much are $19 trillion in 1940s money?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 28, 2015, 07:18:31 PM

How much are $19 trillion in 1940s money?

I think you worded that wrong but 19 trillion/15.28=1.24Trillion.   


Our national debt in 1940 was under 45 billion though.  Big difference between 1.24 trillion and 45 billion, so I don't see the relevance YET....  If you aren't going to outright answer, then keep it coming with the indirect responses.  Eventually we will get there.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 28, 2015, 11:26:53 PM
Boe, I have known many Russians.  My perspective is unique in that, up until a year ago, did business with them.  The attitudes displayed this year are like nothing in my history of knowing the Russian people.  There is a huge and active disinformation campaign targeted at the Russian people, themselves.  The problem is that the rest of the world sees it for what it is.

One of the sites I watch, with regularity, is the site that evaluates the Ukrainian conflict from the perspective of social media.  It is interesting to watch the quieting down of all confrontation as Putin gets ready to address the United Nations.  Of course, one of the things he will ask for is the elimination of sanctions.  I would guess he will pose this as a new statement of where things are, etc.

For the record, on an individual basis, the Russians are not suffering much.  On a national scale, the Kremlin put aside a huge rainy day fund that it is exhausting now due to oil prices and the lack of foreign investment.  When that money is gone, Russia will have no choice but to either rescind its empire goals or to lash out in a full scale war of acquisition.


Ah, but those attitudes are very much in line with what I know of Russians.  As for disinformation, you forget, I lived in the USSR, where disinformation was an art form.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 28, 2015, 11:36:06 PM
Jone, they are suffering more than most are willing to admit. It is a crime to admit it these days, for starters. Part of the "spin" is to self-proclaim that nothing is wrong.

However, this week it seems that in major cities the real cheese began to run out, and vegetable oil based Russian substitutes began filling shelves. Social media has been an accurate gauge at how the new cheese is being received.

Of the good cheese remaining, stores have been caught mislabeling it, resulting in large overcharges. One TV news showed a customer going in undercover. The good cheese in that example was labeled as weighing twice what it really weighted when put on a scale.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 28, 2015, 11:50:59 PM
mendy, in Soviet times, both Russia and Ukraine had superb cheeses.  I wonder how much of that was supplanted by oligarchic greed and easy imports.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 29, 2015, 12:04:55 AM
After the fall, it seemed like the agri business was seldom a priority. I'm guessing that you have hit on something.

Meanwhile, my MIL keeps asking Mrs M when I am scheduled for another trip to Amsterdam.  :D Bringing it back however may be a challenge.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 29, 2015, 12:07:39 AM
Quote
Thank you. I make posts here to preserve my English from rusting. Very good method to be in touch with live language.

Belvis, it was just a hunch from something you said.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on September 29, 2015, 02:21:08 AM
Belvis, it was just a hunch from something you said.
Anyway you has played it up as a compliment, and I made the responce gesture. Probably we played the passage too long :) I suppose you did not believe I swallowed what you said about native language.

You do understand that this is not a debating contest where a debater gains points by artfully making "black" into  "gray" if not "white." 
...
In this case, this is clearly black and white which makes you like the defense attorney taking far-fetched  positions to try and impart an element of doubt regarding his  obviously guilty client. 
Your weak point here is that you have decided firmly what is black. In movies with cowboys there are no questions who bear black and white hats, even though they're gray ones.  But in our disputes the color map is changing chades in relation to citizenship and wife's nationality :)
Of course, I don't buy the exchange of arguments for  personal beliefs as guys are trying to employ in our debates. BTW, color talk does not look as an argument too :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 29, 2015, 07:09:30 AM

I think you worded that wrong but 19 trillion/15.28=1.24Trillion.   


Our national debt in 1940 was under 45 billion though.  Big difference between 1.24 trillion and 45 billion, so I don't see the relevance YET....  If you aren't going to outright answer, then keep it coming with the indirect responses.  Eventually we will get there.


Fathertime!


How much do you think this little scuffle (WWII) cost?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on September 29, 2015, 07:21:06 AM

How much do you think this little scuffle (WWII) cost?


While researching your 1st question, I did notice how costly WWII was.    Well after the war, we enjoyed great financial times for decades....I don't think that is in the cards this time...lots of competition nowadays.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 29, 2015, 07:28:54 AM
Jone, they are suffering more than most are willing to admit. It is a crime to admit it these days, for starters. Part of the "spin" is to self-proclaim that nothing is wrong.

However, this week it seems that in major cities the real cheese began to run out, and vegetable oil based Russian substitutes began filling shelves. Social media has been an accurate gauge at how the new cheese is being received.

Of the good cheese remaining, stores have been caught mislabeling it, resulting in large overcharges. One TV news showed a customer going in undercover. The good cheese in that example was labeled as weighing twice what it really weighted when put on a scale.

It will take more than a little cheese to upset the Russian apple cart.  I don't wish bad things to happen to any people.  But with the ardent nationalism currently, I doubt that anyone will complain too much.  Makes you wonder, though, why Italian cheese was selected for bulldozing.  (Was it Italian cheese?)  Perhaps the government was setting expectations for this shortage.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 29, 2015, 01:58:17 PM
It was also Dutch cheese, probably based on the Dutch wish to have the UN take up the issue on the shooting down of a certain airliner over Eastern Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on September 29, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
It was also Dutch cheese, probably based on the Dutch wish to have the UN take up the issue on the shooting down of a certain airliner over Eastern Ukraine.

The Dutch and for that the matter the English make very good hard or semi hard cheese, in the States the English stuff it is called Cheddar and a best known brand of the Dutch version is Old Amsterdam.

The English also make Stilton and another green/blue cheese. Great stuff!

The southern European countries make cheese as well some of it wonderful and yummy. Often soft & green/blue. I would say France leads on all fronts, with England close behind.

Personally I am not a big fan of German cheese, unlike the cars inconsistent and non descript.

I have never had a "tasty" cheese from the former Soviet Union and I have tried a fair number.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 29, 2015, 06:25:26 PM
The southern European countries make cheese as well some of it wonderful and yummy. Often soft & green/blue.
Thank you for mentioning us in passing ;).
Quote
I would say France leads on all fronts, with England close behind.
I beg to differ. As I wrote on a previous occasion:

- France may excel in soft cheeses (Brie, Camambert, etc.)
- Italy excels in semi-hard (e.g. Mozzarella, Provolone, etc.) and hard cheeses (e.g. Parmigiano, Grana padano, etc.)

The only green/blue Italian cheese of any fame is Gorgonzola.

(http://www.lavamind.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gorgonzola-cheese.jpg#ActualImage)

As for varieties, just look at these 2 lists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_cheeses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_cheeses
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 30, 2015, 01:32:41 AM
Being ethnically Dutch, it is obvious to me that the Dutch make the best cheese in the world.  :D

That being said, I've had some fantastic cheese in Belarus (likely copied from Dutch masters), but given the rural nature of Belarus, not enough is made in Belarus to supply the world. I think that the rural factor, and the process handed down from generation to generation of small family farmers, may explain the high quality.

Dairy products from Belarus are imported into Russia, and if you can find such in stores before they are quickly snatched up, the end result makes for a real treat.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 30, 2015, 03:00:06 AM
I hail from America's Dairyland, Wisconsin.  In Wisconsin, every third farm, it seems, has its own cheese factory.  Where I grew up, there were at least 10 factories within a five mile radius.  Some are excellent.  One of my favorite cheeses, if aged properly, is an American cheese called Muenster.  (I once had a great aunt named Iola Muenster.  She did not age well.)

This cheese is great for grilled cheese sandwiches, tuna melts or macaroni and cheese.  It is not found in many stores because it takes extra effort to make and is now displaced by more common cheeses that are mass produced like Mozzarella.  But if you are ever in Wisconsin, make sure you ask for the local variety of Muenster and you will be in for a subtle treat.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 30, 2015, 05:26:24 AM
I hail from America's Dairyland, Wisconsin.  In Wisconsin, every third farm, it seems, has its own cheese factory.  Where I grew up, there were at least 10 factories within a five mile radius.  Some are excellent.  One of my favorite cheeses, if aged properly, is an American cheese called Muenster.  (I once had a great aunt named Iola Muenster.  She did not age well.)

This cheese is great for grilled cheese sandwiches, tuna melts or macaroni and cheese.  It is not found in many stores because it takes extra effort to make and is now displaced by more common cheeses that are mass produced like Mozzarella.  But if you are ever in Wisconsin, make sure you ask for the local variety of Muenster and you will be in for a subtle treat.


I had Cheddar ice cream once when I was in Stoughton. ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 30, 2015, 06:20:12 AM
Stop it.  You didn't! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 30, 2015, 10:37:49 AM
I swear!!!


You can ask my ex-wife.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on September 30, 2015, 11:54:39 AM
(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/cheese-ours.jpg) (http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/cheese-ours.jpg)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on September 30, 2015, 03:49:01 PM

The only green/blue Italian cheese of any fame is Gorgonzola.


There is an odd marriage between France and Italy called Cambazola. It is a new cheese but quite good. What is hilarious it is a German product.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 01, 2015, 06:33:45 PM
The article covers the issues-- looking at bigger picture--piece by piece !!
This is a crucial piece of equipment to raise the price of  Russia's invasion-- and greatly enhance the Ukrainian military's ability to defend themselves.

The US is providing Ukraine with a radar system that could 'help tip the balance' of the country's conflict

The US and its partners have struggled to counter Russian president Vladimir Putin’s moves on the world stage. Russia has continued to beef up its military presence in Syria while conducting unilateral strikes against US-backed rebels in the country. And in Ukraine, Russian-backed separatists continue to occupy much of the Donbas region.

But the day after a high-profile meeting with Putin at the UN, President Obama authorised a deal that would provide the Ukrainian military with $US20 million in radar equipment. According to Adrian Karatnycky of the Atlantic Council, the radar systems could seriously change the Ukrainian conflict’s calculus.

The US will now provide Ukraine with Q36 radar systems, an item that was high on Kiev’s military wish list. The radars are mobile and can allow “the immediate targeting of the point of origin of missiles from a range of 18 kilometers and rockets from a distance of 24 kilometers,” Karatnycky writes “More importantly, it enables operators to precisely locate the enemy’s artillery and rocket launchers after just one shot.”

Karatnycky thinks the radars could “help tip the balance” for Ukrainian government forces. As Karatnycky notes, 75% per cent of Ukranian fatalities are “a result of artillery and missile attacks,” according to the country’s defence ministry.

The radar may deter future separatist attacks, since a single launched rocket or missile would give away their firing location. When the separatists did attack with the radar system present, the Ukrainians will be able to quickly and effectively launch a targeted counter-attack.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/us-sending-ukraine-game-changing-radar-2015-9
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 01, 2015, 09:16:34 PM
I wouldn't get too excited about this news for a number of reasons.

The AN/TPQ-36 is an old design that has been superseded by later units such as the current TPQ-53.  I suspect that the US experience in the Middle-East by losing weaponry to the enemy would not want to risk Russia or Terrorists to have our current technology.

A countermeasure likely to be effective against this system is for the enemy to continue to fire from residential areas.  Launching mortar counter-attacks into residential areas has already been the subject of a lot of controversy on both sides.

Unfortunately, Obama is not likely to provide anything useful to Ukraine to defend themselves.  Short of impeachment,  I don't see any hope of Ukraine receiving any useful weapons from the USA. 

Europe already has weapons that could have allowed Ukraine to beat back the Russians, but they are too interested in their business relationships with Russia to help their neighbors.  Perhaps the next time Europe asks for US support to defeat an enemy, we should tell them we will provide the same amount of support they gave Ukraine when they were in need.   We could offer a  lot of talk, talk, talk like Merkel has done.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on October 08, 2015, 02:51:12 PM
... Stalin did believe Hitler would not invade the USSR, so strongly did he believe this, that he refused to believe both Molotov and Victor Sorge, who reported most of Operation Barbarossa.

I wanted to expand on this point but I didn't want to trust my memory. I consulted Niall Ferguson's "War of the World", a history of 20th century warfare. Sorge, an intelligence officer of the Soviet Union's GRU (military intelligence), had thoroughly penetrated the German embassy to Japan and found that the Germans would invade the USSR on or shortly after June 20. He sent word of this to Moscow, but Stalin rejected it brusquely.

That was the best information Stalin had about the coming German invasion but it wasn't the only information he had. On June 21 the Soviet ambassador in Berlin informed Moscow that the invasion would begin the next day (it did in fact begin the next day). Soviet intelligence services had penetrated many German ministries, and information from many of them confirmed the invasion. One estimate is that the number of such warnings totaled 84. Upon being informed of the invasion by a source in the German Air Ministry Stalin exploded, "The source in the staff of the German Air Force should be sent to his f*cking mother. This is no source but a disinformer."

And it wasn't only the intelligence services who warned of a German invasion. Red Army Marshal Semyon Timoshenko, in command of troops near the German positions, warned Stalin that the Germans were positioning themselves for an attack on the USSR. Upon receiving Marshal Timoshenko's warning Stalin said, "Timoshenko is a fine man, with a big head, but apparently a small brain... If you're going to provoke the Germans on the frontier by moving troops there without our permission then heads will roll, mark my words."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 09, 2015, 08:26:03 PM
Turkey threatened to abandon Russian gas.

Turkey could reconsider the purchase of Russian gas. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan called an explanation about Turkish air space violations by Russian warplanes "unconvincing" 

Turkey could reconsider the purchase of Russian gas because of the deterioration of relations with Russia after the violation of Turkish airspace. This was stated by the President of Turkey Tayyip Erdogan, Joinfo.ua reports with the reference to Reuters.

“We are the number one buyer of Russian natural gas. Loss of Turkey will be a serious loss for Russia. If necessary, Turkey can buy natural gas in various places,” – said the President of Turkey.

Erdogan stressed that Ankara “can not accept the current state of affairs”, and explanations about the Russian violations of airspace called ” unconvincing.”

In addition, Erdogan said that Turkey may also reconsider the construction of the Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant on the Russian project.

“If the Russian will not be building Akkuyu nuclear power plant, someone else will come and build it”, – said Erdogan.

Turkey is the second largest consumer of Russian gas, giving primacy to Germany.

It should be recalled that the Turkish Foreign Ministry reported that Russian military aircraft violated the airspace of the country. The incident happened on October 3 in the Yayladagi region of Turkey’s southern Hatay province. Russian jet was intercepted by two  fighters F-16S from the Turkish air force, which were conducting patrols in the region. Foreign Ministry summoned the Russian ambassador in Turkey to protest the violation.
http://joinfo.com/world/1009339_turkey-threatened-to-abandon-russian-gas.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on October 10, 2015, 09:30:07 AM
Neither Turkey nor Russia have confirmed this:

Quote
Turkish forces are said to have shot down a Russian jet after it flew into the country's airspace, according to unconfirmed reports on social media. It has been claimed by eyewitnesses that there was a large explosion in Huraytan, northern Syria, while three fighter planes were seen overhead. Rumours of a jet being shot out of the sky come amid heightening tensions between Russian president Vladimir Putin and the West.

It comes days after another Russian bomber violated Turkish airspace.
According to the Daily Express, one journalist tweeted that three Turkish planes had been responding to 'mysterious' lock-ons from MIG-29 jets, which are used by Putin's forces.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3267595/Russian-jet-shot-Turkish-forces-flew-country-s-airspace.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on October 10, 2015, 03:22:17 PM
Neither Turkey nor Russia have confirmed this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3267595/Russian-jet-shot-Turkish-forces-flew-country-s-airspace.html

I posted something similar in the Syrian/Russian thread, but Larry definitely scooped me
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 11, 2015, 08:42:04 AM
Neither Turkey nor Russia have confirmed this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3267595/Russian-jet-shot-Turkish-forces-flew-country-s-airspace.html

I'm not sure this actually happened. Turkey and Russia are not acknowledging it and western media or NATO doesn't appear to have picked up on it as of yet either.

Having said that, if it has happened it would not be too far of a stretch for Turkish authorities to withhold the info as 'operationally classified'. I also doubt the Russians would be too quick to confirm the "vaunted Russian air force" lost a jet illegally overflying a NATO country while conducting Syrian combat missions.

Over the last few days I've been particularly interested in the Israeli response to Russians overflying the Golan (former Syrian territory seized and occupied by Israel and still claimed by Syria). However, in light of perceived (and not entirely unjustified) abandonment by the US. Israel has been cozying up with the Russians so I doubt Israel will be shooting down any Russian jets any time soon.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on October 11, 2015, 12:28:48 PM
I'm not sure this actually happened. Turkey and Russia are not acknowledging it and western media or NATO doesn't appear to have picked up on it as of yet either.

It was an unconfirmed report, and I don't see anyone running with it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 11, 2015, 10:44:25 PM
RAF given green light to shoot down hostile Russian jets in Syria.   :clapping:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/raf-given-green-light-shoot-down-hostile-russian-jets-syria-1523488
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 12, 2015, 01:05:38 AM
OMG do the Brits have more balls than our feclus president?  Can the world wait another 15 months until our idiot-in-chief is removed from office?

Unfortunately, the world cannot, and will not wait.  Putin will march on while we patiently wait for the opportunity to remove Obummer and replace him with a real man......or woman!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 15, 2015, 09:59:36 AM
The largest Swiss banks began to create problems for clients from Russia. Accounts Closed!


Russian clients with assets of less than five million dollars faced this fall with the mass closing of accounts in major Swiss banks UBS and Credit Suisse, writes the Russian edition of magazine Forbes with reference to sources in the market.

Now, to save your account, the customer must pay a subscription fee in the amount of about one thousand Swiss francs a month, said one of the sources. Sources indicated that the Russians already faced with similar measures in Swiss banks last year, but then it was about those who hold on the account less than three million dollars.

Some customers have encountered problems due to the fact that the warning about closing their accounts came to them by mail. Within three to four months they did not know about the decision of the Bank and were forced to pay a Commission.

The problems of the Russians with foreign banks began last spring when, as a result of the Ukrainian crisis and the annexation of Crimea Russia has come under international sanctions, reminds Forbes.

According to sources, banks thus minimize country risks and transfer the focus on servicing larger accounts. Similarly, in 2013, Credit Suisse had closed accounts of the customers from falling under the sanctions of Angola, Turkmenistan and Belarus.

In addition to the closure of the accounts, Swiss banks began to monitor customers ‘ compliance with Russian legislation on controlled foreign companies and the legislation on currency control, the newspaper notes.

Bankers reported that UBS and Credit Suisse to allow Russian customers to transfer money to their personal accounts in Switzerland only from Russia.
 Use foreign accounts without restrictions imposed by Russian currency law, Russian citizens can open foreign companies who have Bank accounts in foreign banks.

On this account the limitations of the foreign exchange act do not apply, the authors explain. However, you have to notify this to the company, to cook for her statements and to pay tax on profit in Russia.

Credit Suisse said that the Bank is not publicly discussing «matters related to the customers». The head of UBS Wealth Management in Russia said that the Bank does not have any penalty rates for owners of small accounts.

We will remind, in the spring of this year it became known that Russian rich to explain the origin of their funds began to demand the UK. This was discussed, for example, at the meeting of the head of Rosfinmonitoring Yuri Chikhanchin with President Vladimir Putin on March 23.

At the Congress of the Russian Union of Industrialists and entrepreneurs on 19 March Putin warned business that some countries received «disturbing information» that «may be attempts to obstruct the return of capital to Russia». «Just keep that in mind. And, of course, each of you should make such decision», — said the President of the Russian Federation, addressing the representatives of business.

Earlier that London is interested in the origin of the funds on accounts of Russians in British banks, in late January, said the former co-owner of the company «Euroset» Evgeny Chichvarkin living in recent years in the UK.

According to chichvarkina, he «rejoiced»received from its Bank a letter of request in connection with the sanctions against Russia to explain the origin of his funds and also to clarify information about his assets and their origin.
http://en.news-4-u.ru/russian-forbes-the-largest-swiss-banks-began-to-create-problems-for-clients-from-russia.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on October 16, 2015, 08:21:58 AM
Russia 'tried to cut off' World Wide Web
A failed experiment to cut Russia from the World Wide Web
stokes fears of Chinese-style online censorship
By Roland Oliphant, Moscow6:15PM BST 15 Oct 2015


Russia has run large scale experiments to test the feasibility of cutting the country
off the World Wide Web, a senior industry executive has claimed.

The tests, which come amid mounting concern about a Kremlin campaign to clamp
down on internet freedoms, have been described by experts as preparations for an
information blackout in the event of a domestic political crisis.

Andrei Semerikov, general director of a Russian service provider called Er Telecom,
said Russia’s ministry of communications and Roskomnadzor, the national internet
regulator, ordered communications hubs run by the main Russian internet providers
to block traffic to foreign communications channels by using a traffic control system
called DPI.

The objective was to see whether the Runet – the informal name for the Russian
internet – could continue to function in isolation from the global internet.

The experiment, which took place in spring this year, failed because thousands of
smaller service providers, which Roskomnadzor has little control over, continued to
pass information out of the country, Mr Semerikov said.

Smaller providers account for over 50 per cent of the market in some Russian regions,
generally lack the DPI technology used by the larger companies to implement the blocking
orders, and often use satellite connections that cannot be easily blocked.

Russian officials denied any such experiment had taken place. A Roskomnadzor spokesman
said “there was not such experiment". The agency had not responded to a written request
for further details by close of business Thursday.

Mr Semerikov’s comments had been wrongly interpreted and “in such a form that it is
pointless to comment on it,” another Roskomnadzor spokesman told RBK, a Russian
newspaper.

There is more of this read all about it here
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11934411/Russia-tried-to-cut-off-World-Wide-Web.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 19, 2015, 11:30:22 PM
Standard & Poor's Lowers Russian Growth Forecast

Standard & Poor's has cut its growth forecast for Russia, predicting that lower and more volatile oil prices will make it harder for the country to emerge from recession.

The ratings agency said Thursday that the Russian economy would contract by 3.6 percent this year and grow by only 0.3 percent in 2016. It had earlier predicted a 2.6 percent contraction for this year and 1.9 percent growth in 2016.

“The change reflects our expectations of a more prolonged weakness in domestic demand due to lower and more volatile oil prices, and tighter fiscal and monetary policies through end-2016, compared with our previous assumptions,” a press release quoted Standard & Poor's senior economist Tatyana Lysenko as saying.

Consumer spending has fallen sharply since Russia's economic slump began in 2014, but S&P had expected it to begin to recover this year thanks to a stabilization of the oil price and ruble exchange rate, slowing inflation, and falling interest rates.

However, the price of oil, Russia's most important export, fell by about one-quarter during July-September, causing the ruble to weaken and reviving inflation fears.

The lower oil price has also reduced budget revenues, forcing the government to propose limiting spending on pensions and public-sector wages, measures that are also likely to further depress consumer demand in the short term, S&P said.

The agency is still more optimistic than Russia's Central Bank, which said last month the economy would contract by 3.9-4.4 percent this year and likely shrink again in 2016.

Oil prices are at their lowest in six years due to a supply glut, which the International Energy Agency this week said would continue through next year. Brent oil, the international benchmark, cost about $50 per barrel on Thursday, down from a peak of $115 in summer 2014. Russia is one of the world's top three oil producers.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/standard--poors-lowers-russian-growth-forecast/539212.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 23, 2015, 06:43:19 PM
Then answer these questions here...

...if you think I've been wrong each time. Substantiate your assertions. Go on try. ;D

Yes, "engagements". I certainly wouldn't class your Putin fluffing as debate. Trolling definitely, wildly inaccurate propaganda certainly but not debate by any stretch of the imagination.

Really? I don't really want to educate you because it takes more time to answer your boneheaded statements then it's worth so I'll let you do the research...

What Canadian government was in power when Canada declared war and 'invaded' Afghanistan?

What Canadian government was in power when a Canadian General commanded 10 brigades in the invasion of Iraq?

Aw, never mind I'll answer this one for you, you don't have the intelligence to figure this one out....

...'Canada's relation to the Iraq War that began in 2003 was unlike Canada's role in the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan because it was far less direct. About a hundred Canadian exchange officers, on exchange to American units, participated in the invasion of Iraq.[2] It has been reported that Canadian troops in the region numbered fewer than only three other participating countries"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War)

Canadian General Walter John "Walt" Natynczyk

Natynczyk attended the U.S. Army War College, and was subsequently appointed Deputy Commanding General, III Corps and Fort Hood. In January 2004, he deployed with III Corps to Baghdad, Iraq, serving first as the Deputy Director of Strategy, Policy and Plans, and subsequently as the Deputy Commanding General of the Multi-National Corps (Iraq) during Operation Iraqi Freedom.[6] Natynczyk led the Corps' 35,000 soldiers, consisting of 10 separate brigades, stationed throughout the Iraq Theatre of Operations.[1][7] He was later awarded the Meritorious Service Cross specifically for his combat efforts in Operation Iraqi Freedom January 2004 to January 2005.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Natynczyk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Natynczyk)

Maybe you can answer this one. Guess what Canadian Government lied to the Canadian people that Canada was not participating in Gulf two while at the same time deploying air, sea, and land forces to Iraq in secret?

Here's a hint, it starts with an 'L'...

Welcome to democracy. Something you and the other Putin fluffers and worshippers, by supporting the criminal dictator Putin, are working diligently to take away from the world.  ;)

Brass


Long-winded and disjointed. 


You had your chance to talk Iran on another thread and threw tantrum after tantrum.  I really don't feel the need to discuss the issue at this time, despite your pleas. We disagree, I think it is was a good enough deal under the circumstances, as do the major powers that agreed to it...you think it was a bad deal.


 


Yes, your man Harper got trounced, and YOU state Canada may be less involved with their military in foreign interventions....I say "GOOD". 


You sure do have a lot of questions, but since you already 'know' all the answers I'm not sure why you need me!  :D

[size=78%]Fathertime!   [/size]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 23, 2015, 08:26:47 PM
Long-winded and disjointed. 

Opp. Can't answer the questions or defend your statements so you're falling back into troll mode again. Absolutely nothing in that post was long winded or disjointed my Putin fluffing friend. That's just you not understanding what you've read. :D

You had your chance to talk Iran on another thread and threw tantrum after tantrum.  I really don't feel the need to discuss the issue at this time, despite your pleas. We disagree, I think it is was a good enough deal under the circumstances, as do the major powers that agreed to it...you think it was a bad deal.

Nope, you had your chance. You still do. You couldn't defend your position then and you can't defend it now. Why? Because it was all lies, deception and misrepresentation to substantiate nonsensical assertions that you were making up as you went along just as your doing on this thread , that's why. ;D

Yes, your man Harper got trounced, and YOU state Canada may be less involved with their military in foreign interventions....I say "GOOD". 

And I asked why you interjected "Good". Now try and explain that interjection. Go on, impress me with your knowledge of Canadian foreign policy and recent governmental decisions. Here's your chance. ;D


You sure do have a lot of questions, but since you already 'know' all the answers I'm not sure why you need me!  :D

All this deflection, tsk, tsk. These are your statements after all. All I'm asking you to do is clarify them.  Can you not even defend your own thoughts and conclusions?  What's the matter with you?  :o

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 23, 2015, 08:41:54 PM
Opp. Can't answer the questions or defend your statements so you're falling back into troll mode again. Absolutely nothing in that post was long winded or disjointed my Putin fluffing friend. That was all you. :D

Nope, you had your chance. You still do. You couldn't defend your position then and you can't defend it now. Why? Because it was all lies, deception and misrepresentation to substantiate nonsensical assertions that you were making up as you went along just as your doing on this thread , that's why. ;D

And I asked why you interjected "Good". Now try and explain that interjection. Go on, impress me with your knowledge of Canadian foreign policy and recent governmental decisions. Here's your chance. ;D


All this deflection, tsk, tsk. These are your statements after all. All I'm asking you to do is clarify them.  Can you not even defend your own thoughts and conclusions?  What's the matter with you?  :o

Brass


Of course I could defend extensively all my statements if I chose to, but I prefer to keep you hanging, as your weak (or off-topic) arguments don't create any need for me to elaborate that much.
  The subject of Iran is closed, the deal was made, and I've made the case I wanted to, and obviously all the major powers agree, so you can impotently  bellyache all you want. The alternative was always worse, many knew this from the outset, and many more drew that conclusion later. 


Yes "GOOD" If Canada is going to keep their military out of other nation's affairs, despite 'knowing everything' obviously you are out of touch with what the populous want, and thinks is right.  Your man is out! Another "Good"....because if you supported him, he must have been too hawkish from my viewpoint.   ;D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 23, 2015, 09:02:36 PM

Of course I could defend extensively all my statements if I chose to, but I prefer to keep you hanging, as your weak (or off-topic) arguments don't create any need for me to elaborate that much.

Wow, are you back peddling or what! You can't defend your statements at all, can you? You've got nothing, LOL.  :D

  The subject of Iran is closed, the deal was made, and I've made the case I wanted to, and obviously all the major powers agree, so you can impotently  bellyache all you want. The alternative was always worse, many knew this from the outset, and many more drew that conclusion later. 

Go back and read the post I linked. You made those statements therefor the subject was obviously open when you posted your comments was it not?

I'm just asking you to clarify your assertions. Can you not do that? ;D

Yes "GOOD" If Canada is going to keep their military out of other nation's affairs, despite 'knowing everything' obviously you are out of touch with what the populous want, and thinks is right.  Your man is out! Another "Good"....because if you supported him, he must have been too hawkish from my viewpoint.   ;D

And what "other nation's affairs" would that be?  ;D Are you aware that when you post you actually don't convey anything? You just make these nebulous generalized combative statements that when asked to clarify you can't. Classic Russian Troll stuff!

Yes, you're absolutely right. Harper wasn't letting your idol (Putin) get away with anything he had any say over. That must make you very happy...another obstacle out of the way for your hero ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 23, 2015, 09:18:17 PM


Yes, you're absolutely right. 
I don't agree, there is no saying if I'm 'absolutely' right, but I think I am. 


Wow, are you back peddling or what! You can't defend your statements at all, can you? You've got nothing, LOL.  :D

 

I'm just asking you to clarify your assertions. Can you not do that? ;D

Again, you haven't posted anything I feel I need to respond to substantively.  I've made the case I wanted to.  Hopefully Canada helps start a trend whereby Western nations stop interfering and arming/fomenting in nations 1000's of miles away.  It is obvious that 'helping' the people is NOT the reason for the fomentation, regardless of the people who insist it is all about being altruistic and "Dudley Do right'
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/r__/images/3/36/Dudley_do_right.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130922235801&path-prefix=rockyandbullwinkle)

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 23, 2015, 09:48:40 PM
I don't agree, there is no saying if I'm 'absolutely' right, but I think I am. 

You argue with semantics while the truth of my statement remains ..."Harper wasn't letting your idol (Putin) get away with anything he had any say over. That must make you very happy...another obstacle out of the way for your hero ;)"

Again, you haven't posted anything I feel I need to respond to substantively.  I've made the case I wanted to.  Hopefully Canada helps start a trend whereby Western nations stop interfering and arming/fomenting in nations 1000's of miles away.  It is obvious that 'helping' the people is NOT the reason for the fomentation, regardless of the people who insist it is all about being altruistic and "Dudley Do right'

You can't answer substantively, you mean.  ;D

And what case is that? That you can post any ol' fantasy that pops into your head in support of Putin but when asked to substantiate or clarify your nonsense, you won't because you can't? Comical as hell. ;D

No answer for this one either, eh?

"And what "other nation's affairs" would that be?"

I guess the way to shut down your trolling from now on is just ask you to substantiate your Putin driven propaganda. Obviously the Russian Troll Handbook doesn't cover 'answering questions'. ;D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 23, 2015, 10:15:25 PM
You argue with semantics while the truth of my statement remains ..."Harper wasn't letting your idol (Putin) get away with anything he had any say over. That must make you very happy...another obstacle out of the way for your hero ;) "
Actually Putin is not my idol, but I can see why he is doing some of things he is....your idol just got squashed. 






 

And what case is that? That you can post any ol' fantasy that pops into your head in support of Putin but when asked to substantiate or clarify your nonsense, you won't because you can't? Comical as hell. ;D

No answer for this one either, eh?

"And what "other nation's affairs" would that be?"

I guess the way to shut down your trolling from now on is just ask you to substantiate your Putin driven propaganda. Obviously the Russian Troll Handbook doesn't cover 'answering questions'. ;D

Brass


Looks like the "Russian Trolls" are multiplying across Canada.
  I see it more as, I've made my point, and you haven't said anything very important yet, so I don't think I need to answer your every question.  The main point remains, I'm satisfied if Canada has elected a leader that is going to be less involved in foreign conflicts.  I hope it starts a trend among other Western nations. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 24, 2015, 06:33:40 AM
Actually Putin is not my idol, but I can see why he is doing some of things he is....your idol just got squashed. 

You're one of the most ardent Putin fluffers on these forums. It's even more hilarious you attempt to minimize your idolatry.  :D

"your idol just got squashed."... Repeating yourself again, I see. I've already brushed aside this act of trolling. ;)

Welcome to democracy. Something you and the other Putin fluffers and worshippers, by supporting the criminal dictator Putin, are working diligently to take away from the world.  ;)

Looks like the "Russian Trolls" are multiplying across Canada.

Not a chance. There are some I'm sure but nothing on the order of magnitude as yourself. You post to suplicate Putin's domination in every topic you infect. It kinda makes me cringe a bit when reading your submissive deference to the criminal Putin defending his acts of aggression. :)

  I see it more as, I've made my point, and you haven't said anything very important yet, so I don't think I need to answer your every question. 

Still can't answer my questions or defend your erroneous propaganda, I see. ;D


The main point remains, I'm satisfied if Canada has elected a leader that is going to be less involved in foreign conflicts.  I hope it starts a trend among other Western nations. 

And here it is again! Another nebulous generic statement that conveys nothing of substance.

The main point is you haven't answered any of my questions because you can't. Your false facts and fallacious arguments are indefensible. As I've already posted...there is no chapter on how to answer questions in the Russian Troll Handbook. ;D

Brass

   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 24, 2015, 07:26:40 AM
You're one of the most ardent Putin fluffers on these forums. It's even more hilarious you attempt to minimize your idolatry.  :D

"your idol just got squashed."... Repeating yourself again, I see. I've already brushed aside this act of trolling. ;)

Not a chance. There are some I'm sure but nothing on the order of magnitude as yourself. You post to suplicate Putin's domination in every topic you infect. It kinda makes me cringe a bit when reading your submissive deference to the criminal Putin defending his acts of aggression. :)

Still can't answer my questions or defend your erroneous propaganda, I see. ;D


And here it is again! Another nebulous generic statement that conveys nothing of substance.

The main point is you haven't answered any of my questions because you can't. Your false facts and fallacious arguments are indefensible. As I've already posted...there is no chapter on how to answer questions in the Russian Troll Handbook. ;D

Brass

   


I feel cheated, when I signed up to be a "Russian Troll', they didn't give me the "Russian trollbook" I was supposed to follow?    Is that REALLY the best you have, that I'm a Russian troll.   ;D


I recall YOU making the 'nebulous' frustrated statement regarding Canada lessening it's foreign military abroad, after which I said "GOOD"....which of course set you off like an angry time bomb.   :D  Despite your angry disagreement, hoping Western nations stay clear of unnecessary foreign military entanglements is a legit viewpoint to have, and there is no reason to try to substantiate it with you.  If you need some action, you can always set up your little cowboys and Indians around your living room, and shoot rubber bands at them. 




(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xA5oYnMgL._SX300_.jpg)


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 24, 2015, 09:11:48 AM
I feel cheated, when I signed up to be a "Russian Troll', they didn't give me the "Russian trollbook" I was supposed to follow?    Is that REALLY the best you have, that I'm a Russian troll.   ;D

There's no one on this forum that fits the bill better. Answer the questions and clarify your foolish comments Mr. Russian Troll or accept the title. Besides, you are following the Russian Troll Handbook, it's just there is no chapters on what to do when your caught out writing gibberish. ;D

I recall YOU making the 'nebulous' frustrated statement regarding Canada lessening it's foreign military abroad, after which I said "GOOD"....which of course set you off like an angry time bomb.   :D  Despite your angry disagreement, hoping Western nations stay clear of unnecessary foreign military entanglements is a legit viewpoint to have, and there is no reason to try to substantiate it with you.  If you need some action, you can always set up your little cowboys and Indians around your living room, and shoot rubber bands at them. 

You see, this is where you fall down every time with your uninformed trolling and belligerent comments...My comment was a statement based on the Liberal campaign platform...You parroting my wording (nebulous) doesn't make that fact any less so. :D

Foreign Policy - Liberals

Islamic State: The Liberals would end Canada’s bombing mission against the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, but would bolster Canadian efforts to help train Iraqi soldiers

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/elections/party-platform-comparison/article26758784/

And only you would consider this statement as "blowing up like an angry time bomb" when in fact it's simply pointing out you've already been hoist on your own petard interjecting boneheaded comments on the topic I linked. ;)

Seems to me you should be trying to extract yourself from the corner you argued yourself into here (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg415865#msg415865) instead of making more uninformed comments on this topic, eh?  ;)

You have little enough knowledge of your own country's foreign policy yet continue to make bombastic uninformed comments on other topics in regards to other countries and when exposed you habitually fall back on your old tactic of "yes, everything I've posted is either not true or disinformation but hey, it's my viewpoint."

Back your viewpoint up with real facts and not fallacious arguments that are easily deconstructed to expose your true intent of disruptive propaganda. ;)

And the advice still stands in that you should be trying to extract yourself (or withdraw the comments as bogus propaganda) from the corner you so comically painted yourself into posting (again) about subjects you know absolutely nothing about. ;D

I believe the phrase "brain dead" was even fielded on yet another topic you'd infected with your nonsense. ;)

There is nothing "unnecessary" about resisting the mad dog (Putin) you so ardently worship. Hopefully with time our young Prime Minister eventually comes to the same conclusion (I suspect he just might. He may be a Liberal but he is his father's son)

Brass





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 24, 2015, 09:31:18 AM
There's no one on this forum that fits the bill better. Answer the questions and clarify your foolish comments Mr. Russian Troll or accept the title. Besides, you are following the Russian Troll Handbook, it's just there is no chapters on what to do when your caught out writing gibberish. ;D

You see, this is where you fall down every time with your uninformed trolling and belligerent comments...My comment was a statement based on the Liberal campaign platform...You parroting my wording (nebulous) doesn't make that fact any less so. :D

Foreign Policy - Liberals

Islamic State: The Liberals would end Canada’s bombing mission against the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, but would bolster Canadian efforts to help train Iraqi soldiers

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/elections/party-platform-comparison/article26758784/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/elections/party-platform-comparison/article26758784/)

And only you would consider this statement as "blowing up like an angry time bomb" when in fact it's simply pointing out you've already been hoist on your own petard interjecting boneheaded comments on the topic I linked. ;)

You have little enough knowledge of your own country's foreign policy yet continue to make bombastic uninformed comments on other topics in regards to other countries and when exposed you habitually fall back on your old tactic of "yes, everything I've posted is either not true or disinformation but hey, it's my viewpoint."

Back your viewpoint up with real facts and not fallacious arguments that are easily deconstructed to expose your true intent of disruptive propaganda. ;)

And the advice still stands in that you should be trying to extract yourself (or withdraw the comments as bogus propaganda) from the corner you so comically painted yourself into posting (again) about subjects you know absolutely nothing about. ;D

I believe the phrase "brain dead" was even fielded on yet another topic you'd infected with your nonsense. ;)

There is nothing "unnecessary" about resisting the mad dog (Putin) you so ardently worship. Hopefully with time our young Prime Minister eventually comes to the same conclusion (I suspect he just might. He may be a Liberal but he is his father's son)

Brass


Yes, yes, I have the Putin statue here and genuflect each time I pass!   :D


You are simply angry that your POV is questioned, and will continue to be.  I am not convinced you REALLY know that much yourself, despite your predicable efforts to prop yourself up.  The truth remains, you are obviously out of step with your own country's voting populace. 


Going forward, it seems less likely the Western nations will get involved in Mideast or other regional quagmires.  We, the weakening western nations are getting called out for doing it, and rightfully so. Your cowboys and Indians routine has grown old and costly...looks to me like we are either going to treat sovereign nations as equals, or pay dearly in various ways, one consequence will be other larger nations will take similar steps as we have. 


Fathertime! 
[size=78%]  [/size]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 24, 2015, 10:07:41 AM
Yes, yes, I have the Putin statue here and genuflect each time I pass!   :D

You can't minimize your adulation for the criminal dictator Putin, it's a bit late in the game for that. Besides your trolling, every "I was just browsing the internet" segue is straight into a Putin/Russian article extolling how great and wonderful Russia's aggression is and how the rest of the world should bow to your idol. That's about as close to genuflection as it gets. ;D

You are simply angry that your POV is questioned, and will continue to be.  I am not convinced you REALLY know that much yourself, despite your predicable efforts to prop yourself up.  The truth remains, you are obviously out of step with your own country's voting populace. 

LOL, you haven't "questioned" my POV, it is I who has deconstructed your "POV" for what it is (uninformed Putin worship) and asked you questions-questions you are unable to answer because fallacious arguments are easy to expose-to get clarification as to where exactly you come up with your fantasies. :D

You don't need to be convinced, you just simply have to read this topic and the two others prior to it (for anyone) to understand that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It's all right there. ;D

Going forward, it seems less likely the Western nations will get involved in Mideast or other regional quagmires.  We, the weakening western nations are getting called out for doing it, and rightfully so. Your cowboys and Indians routine has grown old and costly...looks to me like we are either going to treat sovereign nations as equals, or pay dearly in various ways, one consequence will be other larger nations will take similar steps as we have. 

...And more nebulous say nothing pro Putin sermonizing direct from the Russian Troll Factory.  ;D

Just like Russia is treating Ukraine and Georgia as "sovereign equals", right? :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 24, 2015, 11:25:15 AM

LOL, you haven't "questioned" my POV, 

 


Yes, by posting links/comments, it is obvious your 'know everything'  POV is being questioned, you are now weakly pretending it isn't. 


You can't minimize your adulation for the criminal dictator Putin, it's a bit late in the game for that. Besides your trolling, every "I was just browsing the internet" segue is straight into a Putin/Russian article extolling how great and wonderful Russia's aggression is and how the 


It is ok with me if you think I genuflect for Putin, the truth is, I really don't care one way or another...but I'm glad that he is standing up to what I see as US oversteps overseas...oh yes, "I happened to be browsing the internet" was an order I received straight from the Kremlin. 




...And more nebulous say nothing pro Putin sermonizing direct from the Russian Troll Factory.  ;D
Brass
Yes, if somebody has a viewpoint different from your own, they are a Russian troll.  Overall, this viewpoint has been rejected by voters.  Your hardliner stance is in the minority, thankfully.  Hopefully your type continues to be marginalized. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 24, 2015, 12:33:18 PM
Yes, by posting links/comments, it is obvious your 'know everything'  POV is being questioned, you are now weakly pretending it isn't. 

Oh I'm not "pretending" it isn't, it isn't. You're the one who won't/can't answer questions substantiating your assertions. I'm doing fine substantiating mine, thankyou. ;D

It is ok with me if you think I genuflect for Putin, the truth is, I really don't care one way or another...but I'm glad that he is standing up to what I see as US oversteps overseas...oh yes, "I happened to be browsing the internet" was an order I received straight from the Kremlin. 

The problem is what you "see" isn't accurate. In fact, no one looking at Russia's aggression could see it the way you do unless they were consciously trying to be seditious.

You either have a serious hate on for the country of your birth(?) and you want harm to come to it and it's people or you're as ignorant as you appear to be in your narratives. I hope it's the latter but I suspect it might be the former.

Yes, if somebody has a viewpoint different from your own, they are a Russian troll.  Overall, this viewpoint has been rejected by voters.  Your hardliner stance is in the minority, thankfully.  Hopefully your type continues to be marginalized. 

A legitimate viewpoint is one thing, you're advocating harm to your own country and those allied to it. You positively gush when you discover and link any article positive towards Putin or negative towards the US and don't acknowledge that most of your arguments are fallacious and well, gosh darn, just pure hokum, even when it's unequivocally pointed out to you. ;D

I agree with your last part to some degree though. It is "my type" that are generally marginalized and not heeded...until shit hits the fan, that is.

Then it's 'your type', who scoff the blessings you were born into and inherited from the service and sacrifice of others, who cheer and "genuflect" the belligerent  acts of aggressive nations and criminal dictators, who then come running to 'my type' to save and protect them.  ;)

Your subversive whinging reminds me of a military prayer that was circulated by an organization I'm a member of...

(http://www.vfw10223.org/powlong.gif)

Brass

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on October 24, 2015, 02:16:01 PM
It is "my type" that are generally marginalized and not heeded...until shit hits the fan, that is.


(http://www.vfw10223.org/powlong.gif)

My brother shared a great updated version of this prayer with me the other day. It was written by a veteran and I thought it quite good.

http://thesteadfastpatriot.wordpress.com/ (http://thesteadfastpatriot.wordpress.com/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 24, 2015, 04:02:50 PM
My brother shared a great updated version of this prayer with me the other day. It was written by a veteran and I thought it quite good.

http://thesteadfastpatriot.wordpress.com/ (http://thesteadfastpatriot.wordpress.com/)

Great read, Alex. Thanks.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 24, 2015, 05:29:52 PM
Oh I'm not "pretending" it isn't, it isn't. You're the one who won't/can't answer questions substantiating your assertions. I'm doing fine substantiating mine, thankyou. ;D

The problem is what you "see" isn't accurate. In fact, no one looking at Russia's aggression could see it the way you do unless they were consciously trying to be seditious.

You either have a serious hate on for the country of your birth(?) and you want harm to come to it and it's people or you're as ignorant as you appear to be in your narratives. I hope it's the latter but I suspect it might be the former.

A legitimate viewpoint is one thing, you're advocating harm to your own country and those allied to it. You positively gush when you discover and link any article positive towards Putin or negative towards the US and don't acknowledge that most of your arguments are fallacious and well, gosh darn, just pure hokum, even when it's unequivocally pointed out to you. ;D

I agree with your last part to some degree though. It is "my type" that are generally marginalized and not heeded...until shit hits the fan, that is.

Then it's 'your type', who scoff the blessings you were born into and inherited from the service and sacrifice of others, who cheer and "genuflect" the belligerent  acts of aggressive nations and criminal dictators, who then come running to 'my type' to save and protect them.  ;)

Your subversive whinging reminds me of a military prayer that was circulated by an organization I'm a member of...

(http://www.vfw10223.org/powlong.gif)

Brass

 
Funny that you think so highly of yourself.  NO you probably are not the type you think you are.   :o



 It is good, that your type was somewhat marginalized in your own country's elections.  My hope is that the trend continues and more Western nations stand down when it comes to arming/meddling in weaker countries, for their own purposes.   


Doesn't matter what you 'suspect'. Or what you think I 'gush' at.     There have been many criminal acts/abuses committed by western nations. Of course they are reported/couched differently, but that doesn't change what has happened.   It doesn't matter what nation I hail from, I hold no biases based on that, but I think YOU do...which is your own weakness...but of course you have every right to have this weakness.  Your accusations are your feeble attempt to wield a small weapon...good luck with that!  :D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 06:51:57 AM
Funny that you think so highly of yourself.  NO you probably are not the type you think you are.   :o

Nonsensical response (as usual). It is you who continues to post that 'I know it all', not I. And it is you, who even in this very post quoted, has defined 'my type'. I'm simply telling you I agree with your slur to some extent in that there are others who also denigrate those that are patriots (US or Canadian).

The ironic thing about your 'smack talk' is that it's adamantly clear you are as dedicated an agent of subversion and undermining the US and it's allies as I am committed to my belief that the longer the west let's this criminal mad dog Putin run off his leash the harder he'll be to put down.

The difference is I'm basing my beliefs on extrapolation of facts and acts already in evidence. You base your disruptive narratives on uninformed opinion, lies and disinformation. ;D

It is good, that your type was somewhat marginalized in your own country's elections.  My hope is that the trend continues and more Western nations stand down when it comes to arming/meddling in weaker countries, for their own purposes.   

Already answered. Are you posting drunk again?...

Quote from: Brass
I agree with your last part to some degree though. It is "my type" that are generally marginalized and not heeded...until shit hits the fan, that is.

My hope is we continue assisting and arming weaker county's that are victims of Putin's aggression and at some point if all the stars align and the west ends up with leaders of a like mind, we militarily intervene.

I realize that my "hard line" approach would be a threat to your vision/hopes of a Russian dominated world. That's why you disrupt any topics/members that argue/support a more hard line approach towards your hero Putin. Ergo, that's why you troll my posts. ;)

Doesn't matter what you 'suspect'. Or what you think I 'gush' at.     There have been many criminal acts/abuses committed by western nations. Of course they are reported/couched differently, but that doesn't change what has happened.   It doesn't matter what nation I hail from, I hold no biases based on that, but I think YOU do...which is your own weakness...but of course you have every right to have this weakness.  Your accusations are your feeble attempt to wield a small weapon...good luck with that!  :D

Sure it "matters". It lends itself to motivation. You are a most dedicated Russian Troll, fathertime.

Look how you keep referring to "many criminal acts/abuses committed by western nations".  You mention these "acts and abuses" in just about every post but don't actually name them. You just keep repeating the same mantra over and over.

Yes, it does matter what nation you hail from as again it lends itself to motivation. I must have been closer in my assessment...

Quote
You either have a serious hate on for the country of your birth(?) and you want harm to come to it and it's people or you're as ignorant as you appear to be in your narratives. I hope it's the latter but I suspect it might be the former.

...then you'd like to acknowledge. Not to worry though, I get that Russian Trolls like to try to remain anonymous. ;D

Quote
..."I hold no biases based on that, but I think YOU do...which is your own weakness...but of course you have every right to have this weakness.  Your accusations are your feeble attempt to wield a small weapon...good luck with that!"...

And yet here we are for the third time in as many months with me again exposing you for the uninformed lying troll you are.

So, whatever the size of the "weapon" it is I wield in your fantasies, it's obviously big enough to vanquish you. ;D

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 08:09:52 AM
Nonsensical response (as usual). It is you who continues to post that 'I know it all', not I. And it is you, who even in this very post quoted, has defined 'my type'. I'm simply telling you I agree with your slur to some extent in that there are others who also denigrate those that are patriots (US or Canadian).

The ironic thing about your 'smack talk' is that it's adamantly clear you are as dedicated an agent of subversion and undermining the US and it's allies as I am committed to my belief that the longer the west let's this criminal mad dog Putin run off his leash the harder he'll be to put down.

The difference is I'm basing my beliefs on extrapolation of facts and acts already in evidence. You base your disruptive narratives on uninformed opinion, lies and disinformation. ;D

Already answered. Are you posting drunk again?...

My hope is we continue assisting and arming weaker county's that are victims of Putin's aggression and at some point if all the stars align and the west ends up with leaders of a like mind, we militarily intervene.

I realize that my "hard line" approach would be a threat to your vision/hopes of a Russian dominated world. That's why you disrupt any topics/members that argue/support a more hard line approach towards your hero Putin. Ergo, that's why you troll my posts. ;)

Sure it "matters". It lends itself to motivation. You are a most dedicated Russian Troll, fathertime.

Look how you keep referring to "many criminal acts/abuses committed by western nations".  You mention these "acts and abuses" in just about every post but don't actually name them. You just keep repeating the same mantra over and over.

Yes, it does matter what nation you hail from as again it lends itself to motivation. I must have been closer in my assessment...

...then you'd like to acknowledge. Not to worry though, I get that Russian Trolls like to try to remain anonymous. ;D

And yet here we are for the third time in as many months with me again exposing you for the uninformed lying troll you are.

So, whatever the size of the "weapon" it is I wield in your fantasies, it's obviously big enough to vanquish you. ;D

Brass


There really isn't much to say.  You are mistakenly convinced I'm a drunk Russian troll that genuflects when I pass a Putin statue.  I have to suspect you perceive my posts on these topics as a threat....you perceive many things as a threat so that makes sense.     


I don't think your glowing perceptions of western nation's military interventions are based in reality, but of course you are entitled to believe they are.   :D  I'm convinced otherwise, we have helped sew destruction and wars mainly for our own purposes. So I'm glad your man was voted out, and based on what you say, a more moderate representative was put in place.   


Fathertime! 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 08:25:22 AM
While casually browsing about the internet, I came across this link on Fox News.  Tony Blair seems to contradict your false assertion regarding weapons in Iraq.  Of course this was initially our stated purpose for invading the country.  It is a good example, of your willful blindness.  But I'm sure you shall regale readers since you 'know' much more than Tony Blair!  :rolleyes:






US-led invasion of Iraq played role in rise of ISIS, ex-British leader Tony Blair says

.....Blair's decision to take Britain into the Iraq war — based on what turned out to be false claims about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction — remains hugely divisive, and contributed to his Labour Party's loss of power in 2010......

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/25/former-british-leader-tony-blair-says-iraq-war-played-role-in-rise-islamic/?intcmp=hpbt2 (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/25/former-british-leader-tony-blair-says-iraq-war-played-role-in-rise-islamic/?intcmp=hpbt2)




Fathertime! 




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 10:14:32 AM
There really isn't much to say.  You are mistakenly convinced I'm a drunk Russian troll that genuflects when I pass a Putin statue.  I have to suspect you perceive my posts on these topics as a threat....you perceive many things as a threat so that makes sense.     

Well, let's just say I'm leaning towards a Russian Troll who sometimes posts when he's drunk. ;)

And no, I do not perceive you as a threat. I perceive you as someone who needs to be brought to task when you post disinformation, uninformed rhetoric and unsubtantiated Putin worship. However, you make deconstructing your narrative very easy so you're not a threat.

You might want to take a look back at the discussions I've posted in recently and count how many times it's been you who's interjected boneheaded comments using my quotes, then vice versa.  ;D

I don't think your glowing perceptions of western nation's military interventions are based in reality, but of course you are entitled to believe they are.   :D  I'm convinced otherwise, we have helped sew destruction and wars mainly for our own purposes. So I'm glad your man was voted out, and based on what you say, a more moderate representative was put in place.   

Hold on to that thought...So you believe Canada's new 'moderate' PM is the answer to stopping your hero Putin's aggression, do you? Let's take a look.

Russian bear pokes Canada - what will Trudeau do?

..." As a G7 country, Canada’s voice and actions on the world stage matter and they have consequences."...

..."Often, under Prime Minister Stephen Harper, moral relativists bemoaned the lack of UN engagement and suggested his principled and vociferous opposition to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s annexation of Ukraine was mere political posturing. The annual Arctic Tour Harper started in 2006 was labelled a public relations exercise by critics who failed to recognize the importance of this coast to our nation’s sovereignty"...

..."We have a new prime minister-designate — Justin Trudeau — who denigrated Putin’s dangerous and provocative actions in Ukraine as simply motivated by a “hockey loss.”...

..."His first act was to tell our American ally he is going to pull our CF-18s out of the fight against ISIS. This group of terrorists are the most vile, barbaric and ritualistic murderers the world has witnessed and Trudeau is choosing to stand on the sidelines."...

That's the background. Now, here we go. New PM, right? And of course your hero Putin is right in there like a dirty shirt...

..."It is by no coincidence — more by design — that the expansionist Putin regime announced plans Thursday for three new military bases in the Arctic. The Russian defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, boasted: “This is a really large base that was never seen during the Soviet times, and it has modern equipment, all of the needed equipment for these boundaries.”...

..."So what say you, prime minister-designate Trudeau?

The Russian Bear is poking Canada and what do you plan to do?"...

..."We have learned from Putin’s past behaviour that, if unchecked, an inch turns into miles. And if we consider occupation to be nine-tenths of ownership, Putin is laying the groundwork for squatters’ rights.

The safety and security of North America are clearly laid bare by Putin’s bold moves. Three functional, large and operational military bases in the Arctic could be seen as similar a manoeuvre as the Soviets establishing bases in Cuba.

As his first act as prime minister-designate, Trudeau pulled out of the coalition fight against ISIS and signalled to bullies like Putin that Canada is now a nation of pushovers."...

..."During the election campaign, Trudeau promised to tell Putin off “directly to his face.” So has he made that phone call? Has he called in the Russian ambassador? Has he reached out to Arctic Council members? Has he done anything to respond to the world’s bully?

Here is your first test to show that you are an adult at the grown-up table, prime minister-designate Trudeau. What say you?'...

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/22/russian-bear-pokes-canada---what-will-trudeau-do

Only a few days on the job for our new PM and the criminal dictator Putin has already started testing Trudeau's resolve.

Putin would never have made this announcement if Harper were still PM.

Putin has been emboldened by the defeat of a "hard line" Prime Minister of 'my kind' and replaced with a 'moderate' PM of 'your kind'. He's now moving forward with his plans of conquest.

So, answer me this. Who's fault is it now for Russia's expansionism in the Arctic, Canada or Russia?

You see, your hero Putin relies on "useful idiots" like yourself to undermine the foundations of democratic countries like Canada and the US. However, your glee and rubbing of hands at 'my kind's' PM defeat at the polls might well force 'your kind' of PM to have to respond or face a Russian army poised on Canada's northern frontier.

If 'my kind' of PM had still been the government, Putin would have though twice and escalation in aggressive expansionism might have been avoided. 

Brass




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 10:31:44 AM

If 'my kind' of PM had still been the government, Putin would have though twice and escalation in aggressive expansionism might have been avoided. 

Brass


If 'your kind' had been making decisions, we would have all been killed already.  So marginalization is one of the better outcomes. 




Well, let's just say I'm leaning towards a Russian Troll who sometimes posts when he's drunk. ;)

And no, I do not perceive you as a threat. I perceive you as someone who needs to be brought to task when you post disinformation, uninformed rhetoric and unsubtantiated Putin worship. However, you make deconstructing your narrative very easy so you're not a threat.

 

Whatever keeps your inflated sense of self in tact!  :rolleyes:




You might want to take a look back at the discussions I've posted in recently and count how many times it's been you who's interjected boneheaded comments using my quotes, then vice versa.  ;D

From my viewpoint, you have been making the boneheaded absolute statements, many of which aren't accurate....but I don't discourage you from continuing, as it helps flush out your untenable position.
  I've presented the case I wanted to present.


Fathertime! 







Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 10:50:21 AM
While casually browsing about the internet, I came across this link on Fox News.  Tony Blair seems to contradict your false assertion regarding weapons in Iraq.  Of course this was initially our stated purpose for invading the country.  It is a good example, of your willful blindness.  But I'm sure you shall regale readers since you 'know' much more than Tony Blair!  :rolleyes:

US-led invasion of Iraq played role in rise of ISIS, ex-British leader Tony Blair says

.....Blair's decision to take Britain into the Iraq war — based on what turned out to be false claims about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction — remains hugely divisive, and contributed to his Labour Party's loss of power in 2010......

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/25/former-british-leader-tony-blair-says-iraq-war-played-role-in-rise-islamic/?intcmp=hpbt2 (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/25/former-british-leader-tony-blair-says-iraq-war-played-role-in-rise-islamic/?intcmp=hpbt2)

Hardly a scathing or complete indictment.... ;)

..."LONDON –  Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair has said the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq was partly responsible for the emergence of the Islamic State militant group in the Middle East. But he insisted that toppling dictator Saddam Hussein had been the right thing to do.

Blair told CNN that "there are elements of truth" in the assertion that the war caused the rise of ISIS."...

Pffft....Blair doesn't even mention the Obama troop withdrawal that created the vacuum that allowed the rise of IS in the first place.

Seriously, if Tony Blair is having an attack of the guilts over his time in office then he should at least qualify his apology with the truth.

As far as..."Blair's decision to take Britain into the Iraq war — based on what turned out to be false claims about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction — remains hugely divisive, and contributed to his Labour Party's loss of power in 2010."

I've already shown the links that establish there were WMDs in Iraq. That's not opinion, it's fact...

 
As to the US causing the problem? Not really.

Western media has misrepresented the WMDs in Iraq to the point where I'd say it was malicious mis/disinformation. It may qualify as one of the biggest deliberate cover ups to further a political agenda in the last few decades...

The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical Weapons

..."The soldiers at the blast crater sensed something was wrong.
 
It was August 2008 near Taji, Iraq. They had just exploded a stack of old Iraqi artillery shells buried beside a murky lake. The blast, part of an effort to destroy munitions that could be used in makeshift bombs, uncovered more shells.
 
Two technicians assigned to dispose of munitions stepped into the hole. Lake water seeped in. One of them, Specialist Andrew T. Goldman, noticed a pungent odor, something, he said, he had never smelled before.
 
He lifted a shell. Oily paste oozed from a crack. “That doesn’t look like pond water,” said his team leader, Staff Sgt. Eric J. Duling.
 
The specialist swabbed the shell with chemical detection paper. It turned red — indicating sulfur mustard, the chemical warfare agent designed to burn a victim’s airway, skin and eyes.
 
All three men recall an awkward pause. Then Sergeant Duling gave an order: “Get the hell out.”
 
Five years after President George W. Bush sent troops into Iraq, these soldiers had entered an expansive but largely secret chapter of America’s long and bitter involvement in Iraq.
 
From 2004 to 2011, American and American-trained Iraqi troops repeatedly encountered, and on at least six occasions were wounded by, chemical weapons remaining from years earlier in Saddam Hussein’s rule."...

..."In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act....

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=1

Read this article it points the direction...

BOMBSHELL: New York Times Reports WMDs WERE Found in Iraq!

Read more: http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/bombshell-new-york-times-reports-wmds-found-iraq/#ixzz3kynTAcok

Further, one of the lasting jokes among former UN personnel is the WMDs found at UNHQ, it was also buried by the media at the time.

Iraq war chemicals found stored in U.N. office

..."The United Nations found small amounts of a potentially lethal chemical warfare agent, removed from Iraq a decade ago, in offices near its New York headquarters but officials said on Thursday there was no danger. "...

..."It should not have come here," said Ewen Buchanan, spokesman for the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, known as UNMOVIC, in whose offices the substance was found"...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/30/us-un-chemicals-idUSN3044092720070830

I guess not...how the hell are you supposed to maintain the big lie with the actual proof of Iraqi chemical weapons floating around the bloody UN Headquarters, eh? :P

Chemical Weapons Scare at U.N. Headquarters

..."United Nations weapons inspectors discovered six to eight vials of a dangerous chemical warfare agent, phosgene, as they were cleaning out offices at a U.N. building in New York, federal authorities tell the Blotter on ABCNews.com.

The federal authorities said the office, in a U.N. building near headquarters, was being evacuated and the White House had been notified at 10 a.m."...

..."The vials were discovered at the headquarters of the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), which led the inspections of possible chemical and biological weapons in Iraq. The items were recovered from a former Iraqi chemical weapons facility, Al Muthanna, back in 1996, but just noticed on an inventory list yesterday, according to UNMOVIC."...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/08/nerve-gas-scare.html

WikiLeaks...Yep, that's right, even WikiLeaks...

US did find Iraq WMD

..."There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after all.

The massive cache of almost 400,000 Iraq war documents released by the WikiLeaks Web site revealed that small amounts of chemical weapons were found in Iraq and continued to surface for years after the 2003 US invasion, Wired magazine reported.

The documents showed that US troops continued to find chemical weapons and labs for years after the invasion, including remnants of Saddam Hussein’s chemical weapons arsenal — most of which had been destroyed following the Gulf War.

In August 2004, American troops were able to buy containers from locals of what they thought was liquid sulfur mustard, a blister agent, the documents revealed. The chemicals were triple-sealed and taken to a secure site.

Also in 2004, troops discovered a chemical lab in a house in Fallujah during a battle with insurgents. A chemical cache was also found in the city."...

http://nypost.com/2010/10/25/us-did-find-iraq-wmd/

You can hate or love Bush but don't ever tell an Iraq veteran or someone who was in the region at the time there were no WMDs in Iraq, they simply know better.

Really?...You're searching the internet to find something...anything that might impugn my credibility now, Mr. Russian Troll.  :D

You'll have to do better than that....Or better yet, answer the questions I've put forward to you clarifying your assertions linked up thread (or on the topic this one was split from) . That would do more for your own credibility then trying to deflect with badly researched articles reporting apologies from ousted foreign leaders. ;D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 11:13:03 AM
  with badly researched articles reporting apologies from ousted foreign leaders. ;D

Brass
..of course it is 'badly researched'...it doesn't jibe with what YOU think.   :D


It was obvious you would attempt to defend your earlier position at all costs, but Tony Blair did in fact admit the reason for going into Iraq was false. When one of the leaders of the war of aggression, painfully admits he erred, it deeply undermines the position you have staked out.   It wasn't hard to find, it is splattered all over the front pages today. 

Funny that first you whine and groan about not having a resource to back a statement, but when one is provided, you immediately attempt to spill tainted wine all over the primary resource, in this case Tony Blair.  Haha, despite your inflated sense of importance,  I think Blair has a bit more knowledge of the situation overall, then YOU do! 

Fathertime!   



   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 11:21:21 AM
If 'your kind' had been making decisions, we would have all been killed already.  So marginalization is one of the better outcomes. 

Not really (all been killed). That's just your cowardice talking again. NATO intervention in Ukraine would have forced Putin to back down. I've already explained my reasoning a dozen times on multiple threads.

The fact that Putin is becoming more aggressive regionally and beyond due to lack of resolve by the US/NATO/West is self evident. It needs no further explanation. ;)

Whatever keeps your inflated sense of self in tact!  :rolleyes:

How you making out with this...is it working for you? Because for the life of me I can't figure out how showing you for the uninformed Putin worshipper you are makes me have "an inflated sense of self". All I've asked you to do is defend/substantiate your fantastical assertions. You still can anytime. :D


From my viewpoint, you have been making the boneheaded absolute statements, many of which aren't accurate....but I don't discourage you from continuing, as it helps flush out your untenable position.
 I've presented the case I wanted to present.

The difference is my "boneheaded" statements are established fact, recorded history or educated extrapolations based on my experience and past or present events. Your "boneheaded" statements are just uneducated, biased belligerent opinions, seditious in nature and mostly just unsubstantiated nonsense.

You haven't presented a "case". You threw a bunch of unsubstantiated assertions around. I asked you to clarify them and you couldn't. The only "untenable" position is yours if you can't even attempt to validate your hype. ;D

Am I always right? Nope. If you had asked me two years ago would the criminal dictator named Putin still be in Ukraine and expanding in the Middle East and Artic, I'd have laughed in your face. But here we are two years later watching your hero run about the world sandbox kicking sand about while the US/NATO/EU and whatever acronym you want to throw in there, do nothing. Shame on us all.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 11:40:15 AM
Not really (all been killed). That's just your cowardice talking again. NATO intervention in Ukraine would have forced Putin to back down. I've already explained my reasoning a dozen times on multiple threads.
Ukraine is one of many, and I don't think your assertion about Putin being forced to back down is accurate.  It is merely you making an assertion, disguised as fact.   



The fact that Putin is becoming more aggressive regionally and beyond due to lack of resolve by the US/NATO/West is self evident. It needs no further explanation. ;)

Actually you are not correct here either, at least not fully.  There are reasons the US/West isn't getting as involved in areas like Ukraine/Syria...it needs no further explanation.  :D




How you making out with this...is it working for you? Because for the life of me I can't figure out how showing you for the uninformed Putin worshipper you are makes me have "an inflated sense of self". All I've asked you to do is defend/substantiate your fantastical assertions. You still can anytime. :D

Working out fine. 
I've discussed and elaborated where necessary.  I'm not always going to be interested in making you satisfied, because the fact is you will never be satisfied, but I'm ok with that.  The lynch mob, and "I know everything" mentality can only be entertained to a point.


Am I always right? Nope. If you had asked me two years ago would the criminal dictator named Putin still be in Ukraine and expanding in the Middle East and Artic, I'd have laughed in your face. But here we are two years later watching your hero run about the world sandbox kicking sand about while the US/NATO/EU and whatever acronym you want to throw in there, do nothing. Shame on us all.

Brass

 
You want to be ashamed that is ok. 
I realize that there are two sides to these issues, and don't see a reason to feel shame for the same things you do.  Yes you did misjudge how Russia would react, and you are also misjudging what would have occurred had we taken the hard line stance you supported as it pertains to Ukraine, or perhaps even Syria. Thankfully, cooler heads are taking a different approach. 


Fathertime!   





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 12:16:58 PM
..of course it is 'badly researched'...it doesn't jibe with what YOU think.   :D

What I think is it doesn't jibe with the established facts or history. Nor apparently does it match your own narrative about the details of Blair's apology. ;)

It was obvious you would attempt to defend your earlier position at all costs, but Tony Blair did in fact admit the reason for going into Iraq was false. When one of the leaders of the war of aggression, painfully admits he erred, it deeply undermines the position you have staked out.   It wasn't hard to find, it is splattered all over the front pages today.

I'm not defending my position. There's no need. I just provided the proof up thread. Which is exactly what I've been asking you to do. ;D

The rest of your paragraph is typical fathertime "I hate the US and it's allies" venom. I note you picked the most badly written article you could have found reporting on Blair's 'apology' in hopes of mounting a deflection...don't worry I still haven't forgotten this thread isn't about me but you being unable to validate your propaganda. ;D

Anyways...I more well written, researched and balanced article reporting the same event and it's not such the indictment you'd have us believe. ;)

Tony Blair makes qualified apology for Iraq war ahead of Chilcot report

..."Former British PM admits ‘mistakes’ and conflict’s role in rise of Islamic State but defends armed intervention in 2003"...

..."Tony Blair has moved to prepare the ground for the publication of the Chilcot enquiry into the Iraq war by offering a qualified apology for the use of misleading intelligence and the failure to prepare for the aftermath of the invasion"...

..."Blair, who will be aware of what Chilcot is planning to say about him in the long-awaited report into the Iraq war, moved to pre-empt its criticisms in an interview with CNN. He told Zakaria: “I apologise for the fact that the intelligence we received was wrong.

“I also apologise for some of the mistakes in planning and, certainly, our mistake in our understanding of what would happen once you removed the regime.” ...

..."But the former prime minister made clear that he still felt he made the right decision in backing the US invasion of Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein. He said: “I find it hard to apologise for removing Saddam.”...

..."Blair also made light of the claims that he should stand trial on war crimes charges and defended his policy of what he used to describe as liberal interventionism. The former prime minister contrasted what he described as “my ‘crime’” – the removal of Saddam – and the civil war in Syria.

“We have stood back and we, in the west, bear responsibility for this – Europe most of all. We’ve done nothing. That’s a judgment of history I’m prepared to have.” The former prime minister indicated that he saw merit in the argument that the Iraq war was to blame for the rise of Islamic State (Isis). “I think there are elements of truth in that,” he said when asked whether the Iraq invasion had been the “principal cause” of the rise of Isis."...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/25/tony-blair-sorry-iraq-war-mistakes-admits-conflict-role-in-rise-of-isis

So, no, Tony Blair did not in fact admit the reason for going into Iraq was false. Nor did one of the leaders of the war of aggression, painfully admits he erred. You must be getting desperate.  :D

You were just exaggerating the negative aspects of the story. In otherwords being untruthful/disingenuous, as usual. :rolleyes:

Funny that first you whine and groan about not having a resource to back a statement, but when one is provided, you immediately attempt to spill tainted wine all over the primary resource, in this case Tony Blair.  Haha, despite your inflated sense of importance,  I think Blair has a bit more knowledge of the situation overall, then YOU do! 

Fathertime!   


And again, so much for you 'just happened to be casually browsing about the internet'. You would have had to have read several articles to have picked the absolutely worst version of this article you could find. More typical Russian Troll behavior. ;D

I agree, Blair would have more knowledge than myself and when you read a better researched, more complete and balanced article like the Guardian you read an interview more in line with the history/truth, not what you offered and tried to accuse me of.

Now how about answering my questions. :)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 12:35:16 PM
What I think is it doesn't jibe with the established facts or history. Nor apparently does it match your own narrative about the details of Blair's apology. ;)

 


Did he apologize?  Who said he did?


YOUR cherry picked established facts of history. 



And again, so much for you 'just happened to be casually browsing about the internet'. You would have had to have read several articles to have picked the absolutely worst version of this article you could find. More typical Russian Troll behavior. ;D
 

Brass
The article I cited while browsing, did quote his words, it was only 'poorly written' because you may have disagreed with any commentary.  I guess you got us 'russian trolls' and 'putin worshippers' figured out though!   ;)






So, no, Tony Blair did not in fact admit the reason for going into Iraq was false. Nor did one of the leaders of the war of aggression, painfully admits he erred. You must be getting desperate.  :D

You were just exaggerating the negative aspects of the story. In otherwords being untruthful/disingenuous, as usual. :rolleyes:

 
You must be desperate or something, he put it out there regarding the weapons of mass destruction, that didn't exist.  Yes the war was based on a lie, of course I wouldn't expect him to come right out and admit everything, he may be in prison someday....which won't bring back the massive deaths caused by aggressive wars like the ones you like to support. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 12:59:11 PM
Ukraine is one of many, and I don't think your assertion about Putin being forced to back down is accurate.  It is merely you making an assertion, disguised as fact.   

Of course you don't. That would be counter to your Putin worship. How can you fluff your hero if you admit he would have backed down stopping all this nonsense then instead of later when it's going to cost the West more all round. :D

Wrong again, If you can find anywhere I posted/claimed any outcome of military intervention with Russia as fact, link it or this is nothing more than you making stuff up in your head again. ;D

Actually you are not correct here either, at least not fully.  There are reasons the US/West isn't getting as involved in areas like Ukraine/Syria...it needs no further explanation.  :D

Which doesn't negate my comment you quoted and says nothing. I see we're falling into out and out trolling mode now. Won't be long until you're parroting my comments... ;D


Working out fine. 
I've discussed and elaborated where necessary.  I'm not always going to be interested in making you satisfied, because the fact is you will never be satisfied, but I'm ok with that.  The lynch mob, and "I know everything" mentality can only be entertained to a point.
 
You want to be ashamed that is ok. 
I realize that there are two sides to these issues, and don't see a reason to feel shame for the same things you do.  Yes you did misjudge how Russia would react, and you are also misjudging what would have occurred had we taken the hard line stance you supported as it pertains to Ukraine, or perhaps even Syria. Thankfully, cooler heads are taking a different approach.

Comically predictable of you... I didn't "misjudge how Russia would react". I was well aware that Putin would/will continue his aggression as long as he remains unchallenged. What I posted was...

Quote
But here we are two years later watching your hero run about the world sandbox kicking sand about while the US/NATO/EU and whatever acronym you want to throw in there, do nothing.

...it was the West I misjudged in that we would stand by and do nothing.  ;D

Yeah, I know. You can't elaborate. There's no way you could validate/substantiate those asinine comments you posted. I've got to admit I got a chuckle  when I first read them. ;)

I don't think the Russian Troll Factory is getting their money's worth from you.  ;D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 01:28:00 PM
Did he apologize?  Who said he did?

Your article did, my article did...Are you drinking again?

YOUR cherry picked established facts of history. 

Nope, just history.  ;)

The article I cited while browsing, did quote his words, it was only 'poorly written' because you may have disagreed with any commentary.  I guess you got us 'russian trolls' and 'putin worshippers' figured out though!   ;)

Well, the articles are posted/linked so anyone reading can make up there own mind. I've already debunked your misguided attempt at deflection (mis)using a poorly worded, incomplete media article as your tool. ;D

You must be desperate or something, he put it out there regarding the weapons of mass destruction, that didn't exist.  Yes the war was based on a lie, of course I wouldn't expect him to come right out and admit everything, he may be in prison someday....which won't bring back the massive deaths caused by aggressive wars like the ones you like to support. 

Opp, the Parrot is warming up to squawk,  again. :D

Really? He did? Blair stated that the WMDs didn't exist? Can you post that quote? :D

Wow. So in effect you convey nothing of any substance (because it's just your opinion) in this paragraph other than you really, really hate the West, LOL. :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 25, 2015, 01:32:50 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/18/panorama-iraq-fresh-wmd-claims (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/18/panorama-iraq-fresh-wmd-claims)


Quote
Appearing on the US TV network CNN Tony Blair was asked directly whether the decision to enter Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein had been 'a mistake'.

He replied: 'You know whenever I'm asked this I can say that I apologise for the fact that the intelligence I received was wrong.

'Because even though he had used chemical weapons extensively against his own people against others, the programme in the form we thought it was did not exist in the way that we thought. So I can apologise for that.

'I can also apologise, by the way, for some of the mistakes in planning and certainly our mistake in our understanding of what would happen once you had removed the regime.

But I find it hard to apologise for removing Saddam. I think even from today 2015 it's better that he is not there than he is there.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3287982/I-m-sorry-Blair-takes-blame-Iraq-War-admits-conflict-caused-rise-ISIS-astonishing-apology-TV-show.html#ixzz3pc7I2q7L (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3287982/I-m-sorry-Blair-takes-blame-Iraq-War-admits-conflict-caused-rise-ISIS-astonishing-apology-TV-show.html#ixzz3pc7I2q7L)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 01:52:27 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/18/panorama-iraq-fresh-wmd-claims (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/18/panorama-iraq-fresh-wmd-claims)


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3287982/I-m-sorry-Blair-takes-blame-Iraq-War-admits-conflict-caused-rise-ISIS-astonishing-apology-TV-show.html#ixzz3pc7I2q7L (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3287982/I-m-sorry-Blair-takes-blame-Iraq-War-admits-conflict-caused-rise-ISIS-astonishing-apology-TV-show.html#ixzz3pc7I2q7L)


Oh dear, Bo...You too?

..."Fresh evidence has been revealed about how MI6 and the CIA were told through secret channels by Saddam Hussein's foreign minister and his head of intelligence that Iraq had no active weapons of mass destruction.

Tony Blair told parliament before the war that intelligence showed Iraq's nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programme was "active", "growing" and "up and running"...

Now there's a guy we would have wanted to listen too after Hussein's been gassing his own people for years, right?

The "curveball" information wasn't the only intelligence the US, UK and UN used.

There are going to be many stories circulated over the next while some true, most sensationalized nonsense and I have no doubt the Report will be scathing...It's what the people want afterall. :rolleyes:

I have no idea why you posted the news article...


Brass




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 25, 2015, 02:10:42 PM
Tony Blair has pretty much said WMD didn't exist.  He hasn't said it directly, he can't, but his CNN interview confirms that.  He is now blaming it on faulty intelligence.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 02:24:59 PM
Tony Blair has pretty much said WMD didn't exist.  He hasn't said it directly, he can't, but his CNN interview confirms that.  He is now blaming it on faulty intelligence.

Thank you. Watch the vid of the interview and how Zakaria (spelling?) words the question. I think that puts how Blair answers the (loaded) question in context.

Blair states the "programme in the form we thought it was did not exist in the way that we thought." Not that WMDs did not exist 'period'.

Brass



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 25, 2015, 02:31:36 PM
It's a distinction without a difference.  Blair is never going to admit he sent British men to their deaths on flimsy intelligence, notwithstanding the fact several British inquiries have concluded Iraq had no WMD before the invasion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 03:36:33 PM
It's a distinction without a difference.

I don't know about that. Maybe for those who wish to see him prosecuted or are looking to establish that the war was started under false pretenses. However, taking what Blair didn't say and substituting with what some want him to say seems to be the order of the day.

  Blair is never going to admit he sent British men to their deaths on flimsy intelligence, notwithstanding the fact several British inquiries have concluded Iraq had no WMD before the invasion.

Actually, none of the previous inquiries concluded there were no WMDs in Iraq. Only that the intelligence gathering should have been more thorough.

Yet, the British keep commissioning inquiries. Odd if you think about it. Seems there is pressure from some or several quarters to get the answer they want.

 I wonder if they'll commission another inquiry if this latest one doesn't deliver a 'no WMD' finding.

Men and women have been placed in harms way on flimsy intelligence ever since organized combat began, Bo. It is the nature of warfare.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 03:40:42 PM
Of course you don't. That would be counter to your Putin worship. How can you fluff your hero if you admit he would have backed down stopping all this nonsense then instead of later when it's going to cost the West more all round. :D

Wrong again, If you can find anywhere I posted/claimed any outcome of military intervention with Russia as fact, link it or this is nothing more than you making stuff up in your head again. ;D

Which doesn't negate my comment you quoted and says nothing. I see we're falling into out and out trolling mode now won't be long until your parroting my comments... ;D


Comically predictable of you... I didn't "misjudge how Russia would react". I was well aware that Putin would/will continue his aggression as long as he remains unchallenged. What I posted was...

...it was the West I misjudged in that we would stand by and do nothing.  ;D

Yeah, I know. You can't elaborate. There's no way you could validate/substantiate those asinine comments you posted. I've got to admit I got a chuckle  when I first read them. ;)

I don't think the Russian Troll Factory is getting their money's worth from you.  ;D

Brass


Not a one of your comments is fully accurate.  You HAVE misjudged every situation thus far, and I'm certain you will continue to do so.  You can blame the 'putin troll' or the 'parrot' but can not admit you don't really know very much, which IS the case. 


Your weakness for anything the western nations do continues to show up.  I reiterate, most of the planet would have been ruined and most would be dead if we followed your ridiculous ideas of what is right. 


Now lets hear a bit more about these 'fluffing fantasies' you try to load onto me.  What else can be rattling around in that little bean you have upstairs?


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 03:43:07 PM


I have no idea why you posted the news article...


Brass
She probably posted it because she WANTED to post it....did you really think your attempts at intimidation would work forever?  ;D [size=78%] [/size]


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 04:19:50 PM
Not a one of your comments is fully accurate.  You HAVE misjudged every situation thus far, and I'm certain you will continue to do so.  You can blame the 'putin troll' or the 'parrot' but can not admit you don't really know very much, which IS the case. 

Well don't just sit there staring at your computer screen, son. Commence to substantiating this remark (my bolded). Otherwise you're just blathering. ;D

Your weakness for anything the western nations do continues to show up.  I reiterate, most of the planet would have been ruined and most would be dead if we followed your ridiculous ideas of what is right. 

Nope, I base what I think is the right course of action on my experience, judgment and world history as it pertains to aggressor nations and dictators past and present.

You continue to try and deride what I advocate while at the same time applauding your hero Putin's aggression. I'd say you are a hypocrite. ;)

Now lets hear a bit more about these 'fluffing fantasies' you try to load onto me.  What else can be rattling around in that little bean you have upstairs?

Finally looked the word up, eh? All anyone has to do is refer to your posts to determine if the description fits and I definitely think it's appropriate. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on October 25, 2015, 04:40:09 PM
It's a distinction without a difference.  Blair is never going to admit he sent British men to their deaths on flimsy intelligence, notwithstanding the fact several British inquiries have concluded Iraq had no WMD before the invasion.

In your argument saying there was no proof of WMD, you should include  the 2003 Hans Blix UN  investigation.  I found it  convincing.

In 2003 the evidence suggesting Iraq was capable of WMD was stronger than the term "flimsy" you used.    Saddam had  produced and used chemical weapons in the past.    He had the means to produce and deliver WMD.  In addition to chemical weapons, he had programs to develop nuclear and biological weapons.

One must factor that Saddam was a tyrant and an international outlaw, and thought capable of any horrific act. 

Did Saddam have WMD at the start of the Iraq war?  I answer, "not of any significant magnitude." Nevertheless, the NY Times reports for several years after the start of the Iraq War in 2003,   "thousands of chemical minitions" were indeed found in Iraq and destroyed.  He had some weapons but chose not to use them. 

A question, not a fact:    What was the source of chemical weapons used by Syria in its civil war?    Could these have been  Iraqi weapons shipped into Syria prior to the invasion to be hidden in storage and later retrieved?

Finally, we can not turn back the clock and keep pointing fingers.    So what is the answer given the current situation in Iraq, Syria, and the Middle East?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 25, 2015, 04:41:11 PM
She probably posted it because she WANTED to post it....did you really think your attempts at intimidation would work forever?  ;D [size=78%] [/size]

LOL, you're really grasping at straws now Mr. Russian Troll. It was a legitimate question. I sincerely doubt I could intimidate Bo, even if I wanted to. She's far too intelligent and I have too much respect for her to even try in the first place. ;D

Brass





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 04:45:52 PM
Well don't just sit there staring at your computer screen, son. Commence to substantiating this remark (my bolded). Otherwise you're just blathering. ;D

Nope, I base what I think is the right course of action on my experience, judgment and world history as it pertains to aggressor nations and dictators past and present.

You continue to try and deride what I advocate while at the same time applauding your hero Putin's aggression. I'd say you are a hypocrite. ;)

Finally looked the word up, eh? All anyone has to do is refer to your posts to determine if the description fits and I definitely think it's appropriate. ;)

Brass


Your judgement are fatally biased and therefore pretty much worthless.  I think you probably know this, but will stand by your statements regardless.  I get it, but obviously most of the world is not in agreement anymore. 


No I haven't looked up your word or what your fantasies are regarding Putin, nor do I care.  But it is humorous that you have these fantasies, and think they are important enough to bring up.   :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 07:50:49 PM
LOL, you're really grasping at straws now Mr. Russian Troll. It was a legitimate question. I sincerely doubt I could intimidate Bo, even if I wanted to. She's far too intelligent and I have too much respect for her to even try in the first place. ;D

Brass
Obviously she has shown that you can't intimate her, but it most certainly IS a part of your feeble attempt, not necessarily towards her though, but as a whole.... and I doubt you have much genuine respect for anyone but yourself.  :rolleyes:


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 25, 2015, 07:59:36 PM

Finally, we can not turn back the clock and keep pointing fingers.    So what is the answer given the current situation in Iraq, Syria, and the Middle East?
The solution doesn't include us dictating terms to Sovereign nations, just because they aren't aligned with us...and making pronouncements like "Assad must go".  If we aren't going to offer genuine assistance...then we can stay the christ out of there...had we stayed home, the mess wouldn't be near as bad as it is becoming.    Of course by now the dollar may have fallen out of favor if we actually let all the nations choose, which may very well be a reason why we foment chaos, as leadership may feel it is a better alternative than the sovereign states being strong and not aligned with us. [size=78%] [/size]


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 26, 2015, 06:05:55 AM
Your judgement are fatally biased and therefore pretty much worthless.  I think you probably know this, but will stand by your statements regardless.  I get it, but obviously most of the world is not in agreement anymore. 

No I haven't looked up your word or what your fantasies are regarding Putin, nor do I care.  But it is humorous that you have these fantasies, and think they are important enough to bring up.   :D

In other words, just more unfounded fathertime smack talk.  ;D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 26, 2015, 06:20:50 AM
Obviously she has shown that you can't intimate her, but it most certainly IS a part of your feeble attempt, not necessarily towards her though, but as a whole.... and I doubt you have much genuine respect for anyone but yourself.  :rolleyes:

The respect I hold for Bo also extends to not discussing her in the third person.  ;)

Poor effort, Mr. Russian Troll. Why do I find it not surprising you'd hide behind the legs of a lady member to do your trolling. :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 26, 2015, 06:36:38 AM




The respect I hold for Bo also extends to not discussing her in the third person.  ;)

Poor effort, Mr. Russian Troll. Why do I find it not surprising you'd hide behind the legs of a lady member to do your trolling. :D

Brass
...but I see your 'respect' ends, when you see an opportunity to try to use her as a prop.  :rolleyes:


Fathertime!   




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 26, 2015, 06:44:05 AM
The respect I hold for Bo also extends to not discussing her in the third person.  ;)

Poor effort, Mr. Russian Troll. Why do I find it not surprising you'd hide behind the legs of a lady member to do your trolling. :D

Brass

My only question is why you continue to  engage this troll that the rest  of us have on 'ignore' ?  Do you enjoy in arguing with stupidity or have much more time than most of us?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 26, 2015, 07:00:15 AM
...but I see your 'respect' ends, when you see an opportunity to try to use her as a prop.  :rolleyes:

On the contrary it is you using a 'prop'. It's called a "Red Herring". Best you stick to making a fool of yourself trying to defend your asinine comments directly instead of mewling from behind the cyber legs of another member. ;D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 26, 2015, 07:11:36 AM
On the contrary it is you using a 'prop'. It's called a "Red Herring". Best you stick to making a fool of yourself trying to defend your asinine comments directly instead of mewling from behind the cyber legs of another member. ;D

Brass


Seem a little concerned for being called out.  :D [size=78%]  [/size]


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 26, 2015, 07:25:39 AM
My only question is why you continue to  engage this troll that the rest  of us have on 'ignore' ?  Do you enjoy in arguing with stupidity or have much more time than most of us?

I just don't like the idea of his infecting then derailing any significant discussions with his particular brand of trolling, Cal.

I get that there's an ignore function. However, it gives the impression this Fathertime character's lies/disinformation/misrepresentations left unchallenged are given credence.

He get's away with his trolling by employing his tactic of the endless nonsensical response which wears down his target any time he's caught out posting false facts or mis/disinformation.

Seems to me someone should stand up to him every now and then and show him for what he is.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 26, 2015, 07:33:21 AM
Seem a little concerned for being called out.  :D [size=78%]  [/size]

You haven't got anywhere near calling me out. This is just you creating another diversion. I'm still waiting for you to withdraw those asinine statements you can't clarify or substantiate. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on October 26, 2015, 08:41:14 AM
I'm still waiting for you to withdraw those asinine statements you can't clarify or substantiate. ;)


He never will based on my experience.  He ignores facts and  throws wild  stuff on the wall hoping something will stick.   And when he comes across some facts, he tends to gloss over if not misanalyse them.  And if you present facts debunking his opinion, he will not admit his error.   

So I suggest you follow Doug's advice.   Is he a troll who enjoys stirring  reactions?  Or perhaps he  has some sort of learning disability and depends upon  us to teach him.   Maybe he is on an unrelated board where he  cuts and paste your material to make him appear smart. 

The bottom line:  debunking his statements is like shooting fish in a barrel.   It becomes tedious.  Save your reasoning energy for challenges that enliven an open mind, i. e., the type of discussion where we learn something. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on October 26, 2015, 09:29:43 AM
It's a distinction without a difference.  Blair is never going to admit he sent British men to their deaths on flimsy intelligence, notwithstanding the fact several British inquiries have concluded Iraq had no WMD before the invasion.

I saw parts of the interview today.

Blair impressed me as someone with strong enough character to admit a mistake.  Everybody makes mistakes, yet to admit mistakes is very rare among politicians. 

Blair expressed  that he is not sorry to see Saddam removed from power. 

In the interview, Blair made a pragmatic point in identifying three alternative models for regime change in countries ruled by tyrants:

1.  Iraq - Troops on the ground.

2.  Libya - No troops on the ground, but strong  support of opposition groups to include air combat missions. 

3.  Syria - Minimal support of opposition groups (essentially not meddling). 

Will enduring stability ever  be reached in any model?  If so, which is quicker?  Or results in fewer civilian deaths and refugees?  Has fewer adverse consequences on nations?     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 26, 2015, 10:09:00 AM
He never will based on my experience.  He ignores facts and  throws wild  stuff on the wall hoping something will stick.   And when he comes across some facts, he tends to gloss over if not misanalyse them.  And if you present facts debunking his opinion, he will not admit his error.   

So I suggest you follow Doug's advice.   Is he a troll who enjoys stirring  reactions?  Or perhaps he  has some sort of learning disability and depends upon  us to teach him.   Maybe he is on an unrelated board where he  cuts and paste your material to make him appear smart. 

The bottom line:  debunking his statements is like shooting fish in a barrel.   It becomes tedious.  Save your reasoning energy for challenges that enliven an open mind, i. e., the type of discussion where we learn something.

I can try, Gator. I can only manage to hold my cyber nose for so long when he stinks up legitimate topics with his poopy fallacies and misinformation though.  >:( :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 26, 2015, 02:00:55 PM


I get that there's an ignore function. However, it gives the impression this Fathertime character's lies/disinformation/misrepresentations left unchallenged are given credence.
 
YES!  I'm sure some of what I've said IS given credence, not because it is disinformation, but because there is some accuracy to it.  That said, I feel exactly the same about the ridiculous crap posted by quite a few posters here, so I will continue to do what I can to set the record a little straighter, according to what I see as accurate! 


    Maybe he is on an unrelated board where he  cuts and paste your material to make him appear smart. 


Haha, that was a good one...no chance though of that though....


 
I can try, Gator. I can only manage to hold my cyber nose for so long when he stinks up legitimate topics with his poopy fallacies and misinformation though.  >:( :D

Brass
Fear not, you won't be given the chance to 'ignore'.


Fathertime!   


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 26, 2015, 02:10:18 PM
He never will based on my experience.  He ignores facts and  throws wild  stuff on the wall hoping something will stick.   And when he comes across some facts, he tends to gloss over if not misanalyse them.  And if you present facts debunking his opinion, he will not admit his error.   
You are wrong on each count.  At times, what you consider facts, are NOT facts.  YOU tend to gloss over 'mistakes' (which often aren't mistakes) by our representatives, you tend to misanalyze situations, which is no crime, but does happen....and boy do you throw a fit when somebody brings these things up!   :o


Fathertime!     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 26, 2015, 02:55:19 PM
He never will based on my experience.  He ignores facts and  throws wild  stuff on the wall hoping something will stick.   And when he comes across some facts, he tends to gloss over if not misanalyse them.  And if you present facts debunking his opinion, he will not admit his error.   

So I suggest you follow Doug's advice.   Is he a troll who enjoys stirring  reactions?  Or perhaps he  has some sort of learning disability and depends upon  us to teach him.   Maybe he is on an unrelated board where he  cuts and paste your material to make him appear smart. 

The bottom line:  debunking his statements is like shooting fish in a barrel.   It becomes tedious.  Save your reasoning energy for challenges that enliven an open mind, i. e., the type of discussion where we learn something.

My only question is why you continue to  engage this troll that the rest  of us have on 'ignore' ?  Do you enjoy in arguing with stupidity or have much more time than most of us?

To add a few points--giving this idiot oxygen is what he craves for-- to be engaged .The trolls strategy is often to divert topics away from the discussion--insults(more accurately attempted insults)are used  as a way to get responses and divert.
It brings into question why he is so anti-American and pro-Russian point of view on near enough every topic-- and why he is here in the first place.
Brass has given him a hiding at every turn here--  and surely only a non English first language    speaker could  persist in attempting responses.Note the childish attempts at insults that litter his posts  when any common sense reply is exhausted.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 26, 2015, 03:42:08 PM
To add a few points--giving this idiot oxygen is what he craves for-- to be engaged .The trolls strategy is often to divert topics away from the discussion--insults(more accurately attempted insults)are used  as a way to get responses and divert.
It brings into question why he is so anti-American and pro-Russian point of view on near enough every topic-- and why he is here in the first place.
Brass has given him a hiding at every turn here--  and surely only a non English first language    speaker could  persist in attempting responses.Note the childish attempts at insults that litter his posts  when any common sense reply is exhausted.
Angry JayH back again!   I don't think I diverted the topics at all, and I almost always wait to receive attempted insults before I will retaliate. I'm convinced that my response to topics is reasonable, even if it isn't pro-west at every turn. Many think in a similar way, even if they have left, been run off, or just choose not to bother.    It is the reactions of perhaps a half dozen or so is unreasonable.  That is par for the course though, so I accept it of course, and am grateful that the viewpoint I have gets a little extra airtime.   :D


Fathertime!   
[size=78%]    [/size]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on October 26, 2015, 04:27:06 PM
  Or perhaps he  has some sort of learning disability and depends upon  us to teach him.   

Mendy has already tried to 'educate' him on the topic of International Politics 101 on multiple occasions.
It's a lost cause...
 :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on October 26, 2015, 04:58:12 PM
For crying out loud!  :cluebat:

I was hoping that somebody would have stopped to draw breath, or that the thread had been locked - no such luck. :thumbsdown:

Back to the threads where we actually get real information - sometimes.  ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 26, 2015, 07:11:41 PM
Mendy has already tried to 'educate' him on the topic of International Politics 101 on multiple occasions.
It's a lost cause...
 :deadhorse:


Maybe YOU can 'educate' me about 'midgets' or 'botox', or the other odd specialties you enjoy repeating! 




Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 27, 2015, 01:33:23 AM
YES!  I'm sure some of what I've said IS given credence, not because it is disinformation, but because there is some accuracy to it. 

You mean your accurate and credible posts like this one?...



This thread really isn't about the Iran deal, but I did notice that the agreement is moving forward as of today.  All the major powers seem to be fine with what Iran is doing, which appears to be posturing.  Who is to blame them?  With our interventionist history, they got to show they are strong to survive, and discourage us from doing something stupid.  Thankfully Obama is a reasonable man, making good calls.

I'd disagree, Iran's actions are pivotal to the Syrian/middle East situation right now.

Not all the major powers are "fine" with what Iran is doing. France isn't overly impressed...

France says Iran missile test 'worrying' violation of U.N. resolution

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/15/us-iran-france-missiles-idUSKCN0S91A620151015

Quote from: fathertime
Your final question has the assumption that Iran is breaking the deal, since all the major powers are moving forward, I would need to see indisputable evidence the deal is being broken.   Who knows how, or what they could/would retaliate with, but I am pretty sure they have something. Perhaps that is in part why the deal was struck, because we knew they had some serious capability, to which the military option just wasn't going to turn out to be very easy, like it has been in other somewhat defenseless nations. 

Posturing? They are 'posturing' with assets they shouldn't have by UN resolution. How do you equate illegal actions with strength?


My question states quite clearly if the Iranians have not complied with several already existing UN resolutions what makes you think they'll comply with this latest agreement as well as what do you think the Iranian Commander is alluding to when he alludes to "options under the table"...

Quote
If Iran has (evidently) broken the already existing UN resolutions and have just threatened the West - who've pinned their hopes on Iran's compliance to the nuc deal with options against Iran, including a military one, if they don't comply - by retaliating with "options under the table." What "options under the table" do you think the Iranian Commander is alluding to?

So, undisputable proof...

..."United Nations Security Council Resolution 1929 – passed on 9 June 2010. Banned Iran from participating in any activities related to ballistic missiles..."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran

In light of the images and link(s) I've posted up thread, whaddya think. Has Iran complied with this UN resolution?

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1984 – passed on 9 June 2011 and United Nations Security Council Resolution 2049 – passed on 7 June 2012 extended the Resolutions and sanctions so it's not like they missed 'not allowed to procure, develop or otherwise participate in any activities related to ballistic missiles', in the fine print, right?

Quote from: fathertime
Perhaps that is in part why the deal was struck, because we knew they had some serious capability, to which the military option just wasn't going to turn out to be very easy, like it has been in other somewhat defenseless nations.

So why then would Obama and Kerry tell the American public and Congress that if the Iranians don't comply the military option is still on the table?

You are suggesting Obama's assurances were untruthful. Designed to give a false sense of security to those that opposed his agreement to get it ratified even though he knew the ability to deal with any non compliance by Iran wasn't going to be as easy as he assured it would be.

That said, I feel exactly the same about the ridiculous crap posted by quite a few posters here, so I will continue to do what I can to set the record a little straighter, according to what I see as accurate!

Well, here's your chance! Answer the questions in the above quote and clarify, explain or defend the "ridiculous crap" you've posted and set the record straight. Go on, give it a try. They're your asinine assertions/arguments defending the aggressor nations you've been rooting for and defending, after all. That's all I've been asking you to do, isn't it? ;D

Fear not, you won't be given the chance to 'ignore'.

Well, I'll be. Just look at that...Mr. Russian Troll declares his true intentions and actually admits he's going to continue trolling my posts...This is the first reasonably truthful and accurate statement you've posted on this forum in weeks. :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 27, 2015, 06:10:10 AM


Well, I'll be. Just look at that...Mr. Russian Troll declares his true intentions and actually admits he's going to continue trolling my posts...This is the first reasonably truthful and accurate statement you've posted on this forum in weeks. :D

Brass
What an odd interpretation, typical for you, and probably the reason why you would have us in 5 different wars by now.  I never stated I was going to 'troll' your posts....that is YOUR take on it, because you are always going to take a competing idea as an attack....it goes to your mental state.   That shall remain your problem, but yes, there will be lots of  'attacks' then! LOL.   :)
Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 27, 2015, 08:45:09 AM
What an odd interpretation, typical for you, and probably the reason why you would have us in 5 different wars by now.  I never stated I was going to 'troll' your posts....that is YOUR take on it, because you are always going to take a competing idea as an attack....it goes to your mental state.   That shall remain your problem, but yes, there will be lots of  'attacks' then! LOL.   :)
Fathertime!

Woah, talk about back peddling, LOL. So explain to me how else I should interpret your comically moronic threat.

Let's review...

I can try, Gator. I can only manage to hold my cyber nose for so long when he stinks up legitimate topics with his poopy fallacies and misinformation though.  >:( :D

And your unsolicited interjection to my response to Gator's post...

Fear not, you won't be given the chance to 'ignore'.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. But this is another great opportunity to set the record straight! Enlighten me. ;D

Speaking of setting the record straight. I see you've totally avoided answering to the first part of my post above (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20199.msg416492#msg416492) again.

So much for...
Quote from: fathertime
I will continue to do what I can to set the record a little straighter, according to what I see as accurate!
   :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 27, 2015, 09:01:19 AM
Woah, talk about back peddling, LOL. So explain to me how else I should interpret your comically moronic threat.

Let's review...

And your unsolicited interjection to my response to Gator's post...

Seems pretty straight forward to me. But this is another great opportunity to set the record straight! Enlighten me. ;D

Speaking of setting the record straight. I see you've totally avoided answering to the first part of my post above (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20199.msg416492#msg416492) again.

So much for...   :D

Brass


I guess I should be glad you consider my post a 'threat'.  As I mentioned earlier, it goes to your mentality, and demonstrates the earlier point which is....to you, any competing idea is a threat.    What a frightened little world that must be!   :)


Fathertime!   


 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 27, 2015, 09:10:54 AM
I guess I should be glad you consider my post a 'threat'. 

Let's be clear now, you should be glad I consider your post a "comically moronic" threat. ;D

As I mentioned earlier, it goes to your mentality, and demonstrates the earlier point which is....to you, any competing idea is a threat.    What a frightened little world that must be!   :)

In other words you can't come up with a denial to explain away your comically moronic threat . ;D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 27, 2015, 09:21:16 AM
Let's be clear now, you should be glad I consider your post a "comically moronic" threat. ;D

In other words you can't come up with a denial to explain away your comically moronic threat . ;D

Brass
Yup it is funny that you tremble over competing ideas, and mindsets. Of course you will get your fill.    :D


Fathertime!   




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 27, 2015, 10:18:13 AM
Yup it is funny that you tremble over competing ideas, and mindsets. Of course you will get your fill.    :D

You haven't presented any competing ideas just uniformed biased, regurgitated, seditious 'I hate the West' propaganda and unabashed Putin fluffing/worship that's easily debunked and brushed aside.;)

Now, we've already firmly established that it's you who absolutely refuses/can't answer, clarify or defend questions pertaining to your 'ideas' or 'mindset'. Seeing as I've been quite able to substantiate my 'ideas' and 'mindset' on every occasion you've trolled me thus far, I would say it's you that's actually "trembling". :D

Brass

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 27, 2015, 10:47:24 AM
You haven't presented any competing ideas just uniformed biased, regurgitated, seditious 'I hate the West' propaganda and unabashed Putin fluffing/worship that's easily debunked and brushed aside. ;)

Now, we've already firmly established that it's you who absolutely refuses/can't answer, clarify or defend questions pertaining to your 'ideas' or 'mindset'. Seeing as I've been quite able to substantiate my 'ideas' and 'mindset' on every occasion you've trolled me thus far, I would say it's you that's actually "trembling". :D

Brass

 


There you go again, fantasizing about putin fluffers....you mind goes to weird places. 


Actually I don't feel the need to substantiate my ideas any further to your satisfaction.  I am glad you have tried to make your case, since I don't feel it is very strong, I feel comfortable leaving it at that.   


I'm fairly sure there will be another issue sooner or later, we shall see how you do there...I would expect to see more  goofy 'putin fluffer', 'russian troll' type responses though.   


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 27, 2015, 12:12:15 PM

There you go again, fantasizing about putin fluffers....you mind goes to weird places. 

Actually I don't feel the need to substantiate my ideas any further to your satisfaction.  I am glad you have tried to make your case, since I don't feel it is very strong, I feel comfortable leaving it at that.  

I'm fairly sure there will be another issue sooner or later, we shall see how you do there...I would expect to see more  goofy 'putin fluffer', 'russian troll' type responses though.   

In other words You can't clarify/substantiate/defend your asinine statements above.

You should have just admitted at the beginning they (your assertions) were nothing more than "I hate the West" rhetoric and Putin/aggressor nation fluffing.

I hope you've learned using my quotes as segues to interject uninformed belligerent comments on legitimate discussion topics is not the most prudent course of action for you to take, Mr. Russian Troll. It'll come back to bite you every time. ;)

The rest of your narrative is just more of your deflection and not worth answering to at this point.

Brass



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 27, 2015, 03:36:11 PM
In other words You can't clarify/substantiate/defend your asinine statements above.

You should have just admitted at the beginning they (your assertions) were nothing more than "I hate the West" rhetoric and Putin/aggressor nation fluffing.

I hope you've learned using my quotes as segues to interject uninformed belligerent comments on legitimate discussion topics is not the most prudent course of action for you to take, Mr. Russian Troll. It'll come back to bite you every time. ;)

The rest of your narrative is just more of your deflection and not worth answering to at this point.

Brass


you MUST be kidding!   :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 27, 2015, 06:11:32 PM
Moscow's military intervention in Ukraine and Syria pushed London to freeze diplomatic ties

Diplomatic relations between Britain and Russia have sunk to new lows over Moscow's military intervention in Syria and Ukraine.

Russian ambassador to London Alexander Yakovenko reported that information to The Times newspaper, adding that all political ties have been cut and ‘the only sphere left is culture'.
Alexander Yakovenko, Russia's ambassador to London: "Practically all political contacts were abruptly broken off at Britain's initiative; political dialogue has gone at the top level, between the leaders. At the ministerial level there is also stagnation. This began with the Syria conflict, but we felt it especially after the Ukrainian crisis."

London cut all ties with Moscow, only culture left: Russian envoy
The number of Russian embassy employees in London has also decreased over the past year, according to Yakovenko, who also said that Britain is refusing to grant visas to the workers.

The Kremlin has been quick to blame London for the deteriorating ties. Dmitry Peskov, the Russian president's spokesman, added that London had cut contacts some time ago, but did not give details.



http://uatoday.tv/politics/london-cut-all-ties-with-moscow-only-culture-left-russian-envoy-521105.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rZuR7s26yM



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 27, 2015, 06:32:59 PM
you MUST be kidding!   :D

Not even a little bit. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 27, 2015, 06:57:01 PM
Bloomberg: Turkey files gas price claim against Gazprom as pipe talk stalls


Turkey filed a natural gas pricing claim against Russia, as talks over a Black Sea link that would bypass Ukraine stalled

Botas Boru Hatlari Ile Petrol Tasima AS notified on Monday (October 26) an export arm of Russia's Gazprom PJSC that it is seeking a price revision dating back to December, the Ankara-based energy company said Tuesday (October 27) in a statement.

Russian President Vladimir Putin promised a 10 percent discount to Botas, which buys about two thirds of Russian gas supplied to the country, before talks on the pipeline stalled in the summer.

There's still a possibility for both out-of-court accord or arbitration ruling on the case, Sergei Kupriyanov, a Gazprom spokesman in Moscow, said Tuesday by phone.

Turkey is the second-largest foreign market for Gazprom after Germany with about billion in revenue last year. Russia's military build up in Syria also contributed to the tensions with Turkey earlier this month.

http://uatoday.tv/business/bloomberg-turkey-files-gas-price-claim-against-gazprom-as-pipe-talk-stalls-521717.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 27, 2015, 07:03:52 PM
Not even a little bit. ;)

Brass
....It is likely you will be busy then....lets remember, your silly eruption commenced with me merely posting "Good".  :)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 28, 2015, 06:50:57 AM
....It is likely you will be busy then....lets remember, your silly eruption commenced with me merely posting "Good".  :)

You've already tried this diversion tactic unsuccessfully up thread. Are you posting drunk again? :D

And only you would consider this statement as "blowing up like an angry time bomb" when in fact it's simply pointing out you've already been hoist on your own petard interjecting boneheaded comments on the topic I linked. ;)
Seems to me you should be trying to extract yourself from the corner you argued yourself into here (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg415865#msg415865) instead of making more uninformed comments on this topic, eh?  ;)

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20188.msg416049#msg416049

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 28, 2015, 06:58:46 AM
You've already tried this diversion tactic unsuccessfully up thread. Are you posting drunk again? :D
Seems to me you should be trying to extract yourself from the corner you argued yourself into here (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg415865#msg415865) instead of making more uninformed comments on this topic, eh?  ;)

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20188.msg416049#msg416049 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20188.msg416049#msg416049)

Brass


It is humorous that you constantly quote your 'highly esteemed' self as a form of 'evidence'!   ;)


GOOD!  LOL

Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 28, 2015, 07:53:06 AM

It is humorous that you constantly quote your 'highly esteemed' self as a form of 'evidence'!   ;)


GOOD!  LOL

Of course I'll quote myself in this case. It's my response (quote) to your original interjection of "good" that is the 'evidence', proving that your accusations of "silly eruption" and the earlier "blowing up like an angry time bomb" are out and out falsehoods.  ;D

Opp. Seems Mr. Russian Troll is having a temper tantrum.  :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 28, 2015, 03:28:32 PM
Of course I'll quote myself in this case. It's my response (quote) to your original interjection of "good" that is the 'evidence', proving that your accusations of "silly eruption" and the earlier "blowing up like an angry time bomb" are out and out falsehoods.  ;D

Opp. Seems Mr. Russian Troll is having a temper tantrum.  :D

Brass


I'm pretty sure it is clear by all the name calling, who has been having the temper tantrums.   :D


Good!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 29, 2015, 09:16:02 AM

I'm pretty sure it is clear by all the name calling, who has been having the temper tantrums.   :D


Good!

So we've now come to the point where you've nothing left to troll me with but these idiotic one line retorts.

Please continue to post "good" in either ridiculously large font or with exclamation marks in your childish manner for as long as you like. It makes no difference to me as you're just as incapable of substantiating your nonsensical outburst now as you were when you originally posted it.  ;D

Brass 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on October 29, 2015, 12:07:43 PM
Quote
Internet freedom in Russia has deteriorated this year, according to ratings by the Freedom House monitoring organization, dropping to "not free" in 2015 from "partly free" in 2014.

Russia scored 62 this year in the ratings released Wednesday by the U.S.-based nongovernmental organization, compared to 60 last year. The scale runs from 0, or complete freedom, to 100, or total government oppression.

Factors contributing to the deterioration of online freedom in Russia included a law, signed by President Vladimir Putin in late 2013, that allows the government to blacklist websites deemed to contain extremist content or calls for unauthorized rallies. As well as violence against online journalists, there is another new law requiring popular bloggers to register with the government as media outlets, Freedom House said in its report.

"Russia's environment for Internet freedom declined significantly as the government took multiple steps to increase control over the online sphere, particularly in advance of the Sochi Olympic Games in February 2014 and throughout the ongoing crises in Crimea and eastern Ukraine," the report said.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-internet-freedom-deteriorates-to-a-not-free-rating/540656.html

I wonder how effective The Great Firewall of China has been?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 29, 2015, 06:08:01 PM
So we've now come to the point where you've nothing left to troll me with but these idiotic one line retorts.

Please continue to post "good" in either ridiculously large font or with exclamation marks in your childish manner for as long as you like. It makes no difference to me as you're just as incapable of substantiating your nonsensical outburst now as you were when you originally posted it.  ;D

Brass

As I already mentioned numerous times, I've stated and substantiated what I felt was important.  I'm not too concerned about everything you find important, as you have shown yourself to be way too 'patriotic' and/or biased to take in the other side of a discussion anyway.  Overall, I'm pleased with how the conversation went, and the position I've taken on the several key issues.   Yeah, Canada has likely elected less of a war hawk....good!  Is that big enough? :D

Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 30, 2015, 07:19:15 AM
I wonder exactly what you think they are in for. :o

It's not a topic you'd understand. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 30, 2015, 07:54:14 AM
It's not a topic you'd understand. ;)

Brass


oh, now YOU are afraid to 'substantiate' your statement.  haha.   :D


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 30, 2015, 08:23:45 AM
As I already mentioned numerous times, I've stated and substantiated what I felt was important. I'm not too concerned about everything you find important, as you have shown yourself to be way too 'patriotic' and/or biased to take in the other side of a discussion anyway.  Overall, I'm pleased with how the conversation went, and the position I've taken on the several key issues.   Yeah, Canada has likely elected less of a war hawk....good!  Is that big enough? :D

LOL, amazing. You manage to contradict yourself and illustrate your hypocrisy in one sentence.

..."I'm not too concerned about everything you find important,"...

..."as you have shown yourself to be way too 'patriotic' and/or biased to take in the other side of a discussion anyway."...

So while you're not concerned about what I find important, according to you, I should be taking in the other side (in other words your side) of the discussion, right? Well, I just might if you presented a viewpoint that had some merit. :D

On the other hand  I am concerned about the asinine assertions and untruthful statements you find it necessary to deposit on the various discussions as you have shown yourself to be a seditious Putin fluffing Russian troll who has never presented "the other side of a discussion", only antagonistic, belligerent mis/disinformation. ;D

Quote
As I already mentioned numerous times, I've stated and substantiated what I felt was important.

Well you've certainly "stated" but, as I've now established on this and other threads, you haven't "substantiated" anything. Why? Because when you're caught out posting false facts and fallacious assertions you simply can't substantiate, you resort to deflection and misrepresentation. This entire thread being another example.

I agree with you here though, you do "feel" it "important" to disrupt the various discussions with your subversive "I hate the US and it's allies" nonsensical interjections. As I commented earlier, your compulsion to denigrate the US and it's supporters must be motivated by hatred or ignorance, I hope it's the latter.

Quote
Yeah, Canada has likely elected less of a war hawk....[/size]good!  Is that big enough? :D

Yes, I get you're trying desperately to find something...anything to regain some iota of credibility. However, sticking "good" behind any ol' sentence you've posted  wont help.

Now how about substantiating the "good" you interjected using my quote as your segue to start your trolling spree in the first place? Oh, that's right. You've already demonstrated you can't. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 30, 2015, 08:32:12 AM
LOL, amazing. You manage to contradict yourself and illustrate your hypocrisy in one sentence.

..."I'm not too concerned about everything you find important,"...

..."as you have shown yourself to be way too 'patriotic' and/or biased to take in the other side of a discussion anyway."...

So while you're not concerned about what I find important, according to you, I should be taking in the other side (in other words your side) of the discussion, right? Well, I just might if you presented a viewpoint that had some merit. :D

On the other hand  I am concerned about the asinine assertions and untruthful statements you find it necessary to deposit on the various discussions as you have shown yourself to be a seditious Putin fluffing Russian troll who has never presented "the other side of a discussion", only antagonistic, belligerent mis/disinformation. ;D

Well you've certainly "stated" but, as I've now established on this and other threads, you haven't "substantiated" anything. Why? Because when you're caught out posting false facts and fallacious assertions you simply can't substantiate, you resort to deflection and misrepresentation. This entire thread being another example.

I agree with you here though, you do "feel" it "important" to disrupt the various discussions with your subversive "I hate the US and it's allies" nonsensical interjections. As I commented earlier, your compulsion to denigrate the US and it's supporters must be motivated by hatred or ignorance, I hope it's the latter.

Yes, I get you're trying desperately to find something...anything to regain some iota of credibility. However, sticking "good" behind any ol' sentence you've posted  wont help.

How about substantiating the "good" you interjected using my quote as your segue to start your trolling spree in the first place? Oh. that's right. You've already demonstrated you can't. ;)

Brass


This long-winded diatribe just represents that you disagree with me, but not only that, but will do what you feel you need to to discredit the person giving the viewpoint.  I'm curious to see where you go next, although the viewpoint(and explanations when necessary) will of course live on!  :D


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 30, 2015, 08:35:13 AM
oh, now YOU are afraid to 'substantiate' your statement.  haha.   :D

There are two examples substantiating "exactly" what I was referring to (that I've posted) above your now second attempt at trolling my posts on this topic. Are you blind as well as ignorant? :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 30, 2015, 08:43:00 AM
There are two examples substantiating "exactly" what I was referring to (that I've posted) above your now second attempt at trolling my posts on this topic. Are you blind as well as ignorant? :D

Brass


I don't think you put into words what your fears are, quoting an article isn't the same as posting your own thoughts, unless you wrote the article.   So why the hesitation?  What is Canada 'in for'? There is no wrong answer, you are merely stating your opinion, which I might add you are fully entitled to do!  :D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 30, 2015, 08:51:17 AM
This long-winded diatribe just represents that you disagree with me, but not only that, but will do what you feel you need to to discredit the person giving the viewpoint.  I'm curious to see where you go next, although the viewpoint(and explanations when necessary) will of course live on!  :D

And as usual this short winded deflection neither addresses or rebuts anything in my comments you've quoted. It's just more fathertime blather designed to muddy the fact you can neither answer to, or substantiate, your trolling interjections and aggressor nation propaganda. If you want credibility then answer the questions I've put to you  ;D

Brass



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 30, 2015, 08:59:42 AM
And as usual this short winded deflection neither addresses or rebuts anything in my comments you've quoted. It's just more fathertime blather designed to muddy the fact you can neither answer to, or substantiate, your trolling interjections and aggressor nation propaganda. If you want credibility then answer the questions I've put to you  ;D

Brass


I think I've already stated that I am not interested in gaining 'credibility' from you.  Given your perspective, and with the viewpoint I've already expressed, 'credibility' will not be possible, nor is it important for me to have in your eyes.


 
Yes I'm happy that Canada has elected someone less hawkish.  I see that as the legitimate byproduct of the people's desires.  There really isn't much more that needed to be stated.  Apparently this is bothersome to you, but I think it is just the election result that has you down. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 30, 2015, 09:09:40 AM
I don't think you put into words what your fears are, quoting an article isn't the same as posting your own thoughts, unless you wrote the article.   So why the hesitation?  What is Canada 'in for'? There is no wrong answer, you are merely stating your opinion, which I might add you are fully entitled to do!  :D

I don't recall alluding to "fear". Fear and cowardice are your thing, not mine. ;D

As for the rest I understand you've now met your match in me with your habitual trolling and Putin fluffing you splash about the forum.

However, before entering into another 7 or 8 pages of deconstructing your deflection and misrepresentations. How about you answer the questions I've put to you first then I'll be happy to expand on my opinion.

This doesn't mean I won't expand on my own statements as time permits and I feel necessary but it certainly won't be because of your amateur attempt at deflection and trying to draw attention from your own embarrassing predicament next door on the other thread.  ;D

Brass



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 30, 2015, 09:18:10 AM
I don't recall alluding to "fear". Fear and cowardice are your thing, not mine. ;D

 


Of course you don't recall, you would not like that word attached to you...BUT that is exactly what it is.  Fear.  You don't have to admit it, but that is what it is. You do FEAR something about the policy going forward, and would like a different course of action, based on that fear.   



As for the rest I understand you've now met your match in me with your habitual trolling and Putin fluffing you splash about the forum.

However, before entering into another 7 or 8 pages of deconstructing your deflection and misrepresentations. How about you answer the questions I've put to you first then I'll be happy to expand on my opinion.

This doesn't mean I won't expand on my own statements as time permits and I feel necessary but it certainly won't be because of your amateur attempt at deflection and trying to draw attention from your own embarrassing predicament next door on the other thread.  ;D

Brass

I actually have no idea what you are referring to on 'the other thread'.  I recall feeling fine with the position I took wherever the discussion was left off at, with no need for further explanations.


 Expand on your opinion, or don't.  I was giving you the opportunity to present your case  if you like...but if you prefer not to, that is ok too. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 30, 2015, 09:24:45 AM
I think I've already stated that I am not interested in gaining 'credibility' from you.  Given your perspective, and with the viewpoint I've already expressed, 'credibility' will not be possible, nor is it important for me to have in your eyes.

Then you admit this constant responding to (and derailing) topics you keep interjecting yourself into using my quotes is nothing more than attention seeking and disruption. ;D

 
Yes I'm happy that Canada has elected someone less hawkish.  I see that as the legitimate byproduct of the people's desires.  There really isn't much more that needed to be stated.  Apparently this is bothersome to you, but I think it is just the election result that has you down. 

What's "bothersome" is you interjecting boneheaded comments using my quotes as segues then when asked to substantiate or qualify your assertion you try to change the premise of the your interjection to something else. Classic Russian troll stuff...unfortunately (for you), you're just really lousy at it. :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on October 30, 2015, 09:36:05 AM

Of course you don't recall, you would not like that word attached to you...BUT that is exactly what it is.  Fear.  You don't have to admit it, but that is what it is. You do FEAR something about the policy going forward, and would like a different course of action, based on that fear.   

I don't recall it because I've not used it. This is just you resorting to your troll tactic of misrepresentation and out and out lies in an attempt to save what little credibility you think you may still have. It's pure fantasy and topic derailment. ;D

I actually have no idea what you are referring to on 'the other thread'.  I recall feeling fine with the position I took wherever the discussion was left off at, with no need for further explanations.

Then you are again being untruthful as I've linked it several times...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20199.msg416492#msg416492

There it is again for you to later claim you have no idea what I'm referring to, LOL.

Expand on your opinion, or don't.  I was giving you the opportunity to present your case  if you like...but if you prefer not to, that is ok too. 

The "opportunity" is not yours to give. As I've already mentioned you have neither the knowledge or understanding to even make this statement. It lends itself to your bombastic arrogance which continues to make a fool out of you. :D

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 30, 2015, 01:34:59 PM
I don't recall it because I've not used it. This is just you resorting to your troll tactic of misrepresentation and out and out lies in an attempt to save what little credibility you think you may still have. It's pure fantasy and topic derailment. ;D

Of course you haven't used the term 'fear', because you don't want to be seen as being scared.  In my opinion, that is what drives the types of aggressive militaristic policies you seem to want to see implemented. 



Then you are again being untruthful as I've linked it several times...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20199.msg416492#msg416492 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20199.msg416492#msg416492)

There it is again for you to later claim you have no idea what I'm referring to, LOL.



You seem to think there is something important about the jumbled up post. I don't see it though.  Maybe if you boil down your 'question' I can comment, because I simply don't see whatever you are asking.




The "opportunity" is not yours to give. As I've already mentioned you have neither the knowledge or understanding to even make this statement. It lends itself to your bombastic arrogance which continues to make a fool out of you. :D

Brass




I take it you are a little concerned about how your response will be received.  I guess you lack the confidence to give a direct answer, because if you had one, you wouldn't be concerned about what you term 'my bombastic response', but what I would term counterpoints.   :o


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on October 30, 2015, 01:39:31 PM
Then you admit this constant responding to (and derailing) topics you keep interjecting yourself into using my quotes is nothing more than attention seeking and disruption. ;D

What's "bothersome" is you interjecting boneheaded comments using my quotes as segues then when asked to substantiate or qualify your assertion you try to change the premise of the your interjection to something else. Classic Russian troll stuff...unfortunately (for you), you're just really lousy at it. :D

Brass
I respond without permission to anybody's post, yours included.  I'm pretty sure you just don't like that there are reasonable responses to points that you have deemed to be unequivocal.      It just makes it easy for you to plant a label like 'Russian troll' in order to discredit....it won't do the job though.   :D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 30, 2015, 04:12:52 PM
Russia no longer superpower

30.10.2015 | 12:30

Russia is no longer a superpower as its deteriorating economy is ranked "somewhere behind Spain," and Moscow's influence is limited compared to the erstwhile Soviet Union, White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest told reporters on Thursday, according to NDTV.

"Russia is no longer a superpower. Observed in the last couple of weeks that the condition of Russia's economy is weak and further deteriorating," Earnest said, the report reads.

"They are now the 15th-largest economy in the world, and they rank somewhere behind Spain," he said.

Earnest said Russia does not have the kind of influence that the Soviet Union once did and it does not have the kind of economic power that the Soviet Union once was able to flex.

"Their economy is getting worse, and Russia is isolated in a significant way. Not just from countries in Europe, but, as they get further engaged in a sectarian quagmire inside of Syria, they're finding that the only friends that they have there to fight in a difficult fight with them is a floundering Syrian government and the Iranian regime," he said.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/11...nger-superpower.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on October 30, 2015, 04:29:00 PM
I'd be a little reluctant quoting news coming out of Ukraine's media. Things that are happening inside the country and posted on Unian, Zik, KP, and others should not be taken as gospel.


Just a cautionary advise.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 30, 2015, 06:23:20 PM
Then it's a good thing that I'm NOT you. Just a cautionary observation.  ;D




"But the Cold War -- I’m certainly no historian, but the Cold War was characterized by two international superpowers who were in a sort of global test that was backed by the threat of the use of nuclear weapons. 

The situation today is much different than that.  Russia is no longer a superpower -- observed in the last couple of weeks that the condition of Russia’s economy is weak and further deteriorating.  They are now the 15th largest economy in the world, and they rank somewhere behind Spain.  And their economy is getting worse.  And Russia is isolated in a significant way -- not just from countries in Europe, but as they get further engaged in a sectarian quagmire inside of Syria, they’re finding that the only friends that they have there to fight in a difficult fight with them are -- is a floundering Syrian government and the Iranian regime.

So Russia does not have the same kind of influence around the globe that the Soviet Union once did.  Russia does not have the kind of economic power that the Soviet Union once was able to flex.  And clearly the relationship between our two countries has been significantly affected by that because in that time period the influence of the United States has only increased and been enhanced.  Our economy continues to get stronger.  And that isn’t just good for the American people, it also enhances our international influence, as well."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/10/29/press-briefing-press-secretary-josh-earnest-10292015
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on October 31, 2015, 02:01:02 AM
Russian airliner crashes in central Sinai - Egyptian PM

A Russian airliner has crashed in central Sinai with more than 200 people on board, the office of Egypt's prime minister has confirmed.

The Airbus A-321 had just taken off from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, on its way to the Russian city of St Petersburg.

Egyptian media reports said wreckage of the plane had already been found and at least 20 ambulances sent to the scene.

Most of the passengers are said to be Russian tourists.

The plane was operated by the small Russian airline Kogalymavia, based in western Siberia. Latest reports say it was carrying 217 passengers and seven crew.

Initially there were conflicting reports about the fate of the plane, some suggesting it had disappeared over Cyprus.

But the office of Egyptian Prime Minister Sharif Ismail confirmed in a statement that a "Russian civilian plane... crashed in the central Sinai".

It added that Mr Ismail had formed a crisis committee to deal with the crash.

The Russian aviation authority Rosaviatsiya said in a statement that flight 7K 9268 left Sharm el-Sheikh at 06:51 Moscow time (03:51 GMT) and had been due into St Petersburg's Pulkovo airport at 12:10.

The authority added that the aircraft failed to make scheduled contact with Cyprus air traffic control 23 minutes after take-off and disappeared from the radar.

A centre to help relatives of the passengers has been set up at Pulkovo airport, Tass news agency quoted St Peterburg city officials as saying.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34687139
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on October 31, 2015, 06:43:19 AM
Quote
All passengers were killed, the Russian Embassy in Cairo said on Twitter.

video...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/middleeast/egypt-plane-crash/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/middleeast/egypt-plane-crash/index.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on October 31, 2015, 08:56:55 AM
ISIS is now claiming credit for shooting down the plane.

In revenge for Russian bombing in Syria, et al.

But 'experts' questioning if they had equipment to do so in Sinai.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 31, 2015, 03:10:14 PM
I'd be a little reluctant quoting news coming out of Ukraine's media. Things that are happening inside the country and posted on Unian, Zik, KP, and others should not be taken as gospel.


Just a cautionary advise.  ;)

Agree 100%.   One must know who owns a particular Ukrainian media source, and their political leanings.  Many Ukrainian papers are far from neutral.

Slumba was posting about the high level of education of FSUW.  Read the comments in any section of a Russian or Ukrainian paper, and the absurdity of that statement will be evident. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anathema on October 31, 2015, 03:10:57 PM
It was at 31,000 feet, went from 400 knots to 93 knots in one minute, descended at 6,000 FPM, and bodies were strewn across 3 miles?  I'd say that's pretty good indication of being shot down or an explosion (bomb) on board.  :(  Sad; RIP to the victims.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 31, 2015, 03:13:01 PM
Another theory is a previous accident.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/31/did-accident-from-14-years-ago-doom-russian-plane-over-egypt.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anathema on October 31, 2015, 03:27:02 PM
Either way, at least we can count on Russia to tell everyone the truth after the investigation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on October 31, 2015, 06:56:15 PM
This one a Mig-31 on a training mission.

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151031/1029373365/far-east-interceptor-plane-crash-pilots.html (http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151031/1029373365/far-east-interceptor-plane-crash-pilots.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 09:25:06 AM
I respond without permission to anybody's post, yours included.   

Yes, you do leave your stinky deposits on whatever topic you happen to be cyber squatting in at the time. That is exactly why I don't allow you to get away with using my quotes as segues for your trolling.  ;D

I'm pretty sure you just don't like that there are reasonable responses to points that you have deemed to be unequivocal.      It just makes it easy for you to plant a label like 'Russian troll' in order to discredit....it won't do the job though.   :D

Well, one thing is sure, you've never made a "reasonable" response to anything you've quoted of mine. Your trolling has all been unintelligent, belligerent hokum designed to misdirect and derail.

I haven't planted anything. You are by definition a Russian Troll. Reading your hate filled posts slurring your own country and the west, your relentless Putin fluffing and your enthusiastic support aggressor/terrorist nations confirms it.   ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 09:55:35 AM
Yes, you do leave your stinky deposits on whatever topic you happen to be cyber squatting in at the time. That is exactly why I don't allow you to get away with using my quotes as segues for your trolling.  ;D

Well, one thing is sure, you've never made a "reasonable" response to anything you've quoted of mine. Your trolling has all been unintelligent, belligerent hokum designed to misdirect and derail.

I haven't planted anything. You are by definition a Russian Troll. Reading your hate filled posts slurring your own country and the west, your relentless Putin fluffing and your enthusiastic support aggressor/terrorist nations confirms it.   ;)

Brass


I get a chuckle out of the fear that haunts you.  It shows up in the 'solutions' you provide geopolitically, and in the manner (name-calling) you attempt to address dissent to your warped perspective.  You are a pawn for the western cause...thankfully fewer are buying at this time. 


Fear rules you like an iron-fisted dictator. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 10:39:44 AM
Of course you haven't used the term 'fear', because you don't want to be seen as being scared.  In my opinion, that is what drives the types of aggressive militaristic policies you seem to want to see implemented. 

 I have more understanding and experience with the concept of fear and the consequences of what I advocate than you could possibly comprehend.

What I "fear" is terrorism and aggression against the civilized world and innocent victims from the criminal dictators and aggressor nations/terrorists you ardently worship and support.

What I advocate is putting an end to their criminal activities and crimes against humanity by military intervention - the only language these animals you support and cheer for understand.

I make no distinction between those that actually commit these crimes and those that support the crimes like yourself. I consider you and those that are agents of violence, criminality and anarchy as much an enemy of the civilized world as any criminal dictator like Putin.

What I find ironic is that with the likes of most amoral cowards like yourself you speak of fear as if it is a bad thing because you have no experience at controlling your own fear.

You allow fear to run your life. You respond out of fear, it dictates everything you do. Your narratives on this forum reek of it.

What you don't understand is that fear is a normal human reaction to a dangerous situation. It's how one controls or overcomes that fear that determines the course of the action one might take.

That's the difference between fear and cowardice. You can't overcome your fears and that makes you a coward. ;)

You seem to think there is something important about the jumbled up post. I don't see it though.  Maybe if you boil down your 'question' I can comment, because I simply don't see whatever you are asking.

I would have thought it fairly straightforward because you've found several different ways of trying to deflect answering my questions so far, this asinine excuse I'm currently answering to being one of them. ;D

I take it you are a little concerned about how your response will be received.  I guess you lack the confidence to give a direct answer, because if you had one, you wouldn't be concerned about what you term 'my bombastic response', but what I would term counterpoints.   :o

You have made no counterpoints. All you do is troll with these kind of generalized, unintelligent and belligerent comments. And yes your bombastic 'arrogance' continues to make a fool of you. You just can't help yourself! :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 10:48:59 AM
I get a chuckle out of the fear that haunts you.  It shows up in the 'solutions' you provide geopolitically, and in the manner (name-calling) you attempt to address dissent to your warped perspective.  You are a pawn for the western cause...thankfully fewer are buying at this time. 


Fear rules you like an iron-fisted dictator. 

Figure you're on to something that'll allow you to continue trolling me, eh?  Unfortunately for you your trolling is so repetitive I can link answers from other topics debunking your childish efforts. ;D

I have more understanding and experience with the concept of fear and the consequences of what I advocate than you could possibly comprehend.

What I "fear" is terrorism and aggression against the civilized world and innocent victims from the criminal dictators and aggressor nations/terrorists you ardently worship and support.

What I advocate is putting an end to their criminal activities and crimes against humanity by military intervention - the only language these animals you support and cheer for understand.

I make no distinction between those that actually commit these crimes and those that support the crimes like yourself. I consider you and those that are agents of violence, criminality and anarchy as much an enemy of the civilized world as any criminal dictator like Putin.

What I find ironic is that with the likes of most amoral cowards like yourself you speak of fear as if it is a bad thing because you have no experience at controlling your own fear.

You allow fear to run your life. You respond out of fear, it dictates everything you do. Your narratives on this forum reek of it.

What you don't understand is that fear is a normal human reaction to a dangerous situation. It's how one controls or overcomes that fear that determines the course of the action one might take.

That's the difference between fear and cowardice. You can't overcome your fears and that makes you a coward.

Poor effort Mr. Russian Troll. But hey! Howbout try answering the questions if you want to regain some credibility. ;D

Seems to me you should be trying to extract yourself from the corner you argued yourself into here (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg415865#msg415865) instead of making more uninformed comments on this topic, eh?  ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 10:49:17 AM
I have more understanding and experience with the concept of fear and the consequences of what I advocate than you could possibly comprehend.

What I "fear" is terrorism and aggression against the civilized world and innocent victims from the criminal dictators and aggressor nations/terrorists you ardently worship and support.

What I advocate is putting an end to their criminal activities and crimes against humanity by military intervention - the only language these animals you support and cheer for understand.

I make no distinction between those that actually commit these crimes and those that support the crimes like yourself. I consider you and those that are agents of violence, criminality and anarchy as much an enemy of the civilized world as any criminal dictator like Putin.

What I find ironic is that with the likes of most amoral cowards like yourself you speak of fear as if it is a bad thing because you have no experience at controlling your own fear.

You allow fear to run your life. You respond out of fear, it dictates everything you do. Your narratives on this forum reek of it.

What you don't understand is that fear is a normal human reaction to a dangerous situation. It's how one controls or overcomes that fear that determines the course of the action one might take.

That's the difference between fear and cowardice. You can't overcome your fears and that makes you a coward. ;)

I would have thought it fairly straightforward because you've found several different ways of trying to deflect answering my questions so far, this asinine excuse I'm currently answering to being one of them. ;D

You have made no counterpoints. All you do is troll with these kind of generalized, unintelligent and belligerent comments. And yes your bombastic 'arrogance' continues to make a fool of you. You just can't help yourself! :D

Brass


This entire post is an effort to defend yourself, it is a cowardly effort to deflect without relevant substance, or consideration of other viewpoints.  I guess your version of  'discussion' is an effort to annihilate.  Won't work on a discussion board, or in the real world in the geopolitical arena....but it remains humorous to watch you flail away, without success.  ;D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 10:54:21 AM
Figure you're on to something that'll allow you to continue trolling me, eh? ;D

Poor effort Mr. Russian Troll. But hey! Howbout try answering the questions if you want to regain some credibility. ;D

Brass


I have known this was an important element, because it is almost always the same with your type.  Fear IS what dictates you, probably always has.   Your justifications for use of military/aggression are rather loose. I'm glad Canada may tighten up. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 10:57:37 AM
This entire post is an effort to defend yourself, it is a cowardly effort to deflect without relevant substance, or consideration of other viewpoints.  I guess your version of  'discussion' is an effort to annihilate.  Won't work on a discussion board, or in the real world in the geopolitical arena....but it remains humorous to watch you flail away, without success.  ;D

Actually it's you to a 'T'. 'T' stands for Troll, BTW. I see we're in full on troll mode now. You're getting more desperate with each narrative you post. ;D

I hope you can do better than these amateurish attempts at deflection, though. Keep trying. :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 11:02:01 AM
I have known this was an important element, because it is almost always the same with your type.  Fear IS what dictates you, probably always has.   Your justifications for use of military/aggression are rather loose. I'm glad Canada may tighten up. 

Already debunked just one post up thread Mr. Russian Troll. Keep trying!

Howbout answering the questions?  ;D...

Seems to me you should be trying to extract yourself from the corner you argued yourself into here (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg415865#msg415865) instead of making more uninformed comments on this topic, eh?  ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 11:08:15 AM
Already debunked just one post up thread Mr. Russian Troll. Keep trying!

Howbout answering the questions?  ;D ...

Brass


Humorous how you always desperately 'self-support'.  If you feel it is so important, I'm pretty sure you have some outstanding questions to answer, although obviously you don't have to.  :o


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 11:13:15 AM
Actually it's you to a 'T'. 'T' stands for Troll, BTW. I see we're in full on troll mode now. You're getting more desperate with each narrative you post. ;D

I hope you can do better than these amateurish attempts at deflection, though. Keep trying. :D

Brass


As far as I'm concerned, you haven't made a strong enough case EVER for some of the policies you would adopt.  Thankfully Canada seems to be a little less preoccupied with YOUR fears that you think they should be.  I'd say it is the right direction to move in. 


Fathertime!


 

What I "fear" is terrorism and aggression against the civilized world and innocent victims from the criminal dictators and aggressor nations/terrorists you ardently worship and support.
 
Brass

[/size]

Yes you do 'fear' terrorism, among other things, and you should.  Aggression can be implemented in different ways, and I'd say the Western world is plenty guilty as well, but that is to be completely disregarded in your very limited view.   :o


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 11:17:20 AM
Humorous how you always desperately 'self-support'.  If you feel it is so important, I'm pretty sure you have some outstanding questions to answer, although obviously you don't have to.  :o

Nope. I make a point of debunking all your assertions except in one instance where it was obvious you were using one of your childish tactics at deflections. ;)

I don't recall alluding to "fear". Fear and cowardice are your thing, not mine. ;D

As for the rest I understand you've now met your match in me with your habitual trolling and Putin fluffing you splash about the forum.

However, before entering into another 7 or 8 pages of deconstructing your deflection and misrepresentations. How about you answer the questions I've put to you first then I'll be happy to expand on my opinion.

This doesn't mean I won't expand on my own statements as time permits and I feel necessary but it certainly won't be because of your amateur attempt at deflection and trying to draw attention from your own embarrassing predicament next door on the other thread.  ;D

Keep trying! ;D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 11:27:35 AM
Nope. I make a point of debunking all your assertions except in one instance where it was obvious you were using one of your childish tactics at deflections. ;)

Keep trying! ;D

Brass


This is you self-supporting again.  You make counter points as you should. if you have a position...that is all...your neediness regarding outright winning is just simply your 'need'.  Ultimately you are limited by what has happened on the ground, and you can continue to polish a turd, but it remains a turd.  There are no good guys, this is not cowboys and Indians...funny how the reality of that analogy is so much different than what kids were 'taught'. 


Fathertime!     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 11:44:15 AM
As far as I'm concerned, you haven't made a strong enough case EVER for some of the policies you would adopt.   

Well, I've made strong enough arguments that you, being a Russian Troll has singled me out to attack and troll in your feeble attempts to misdirect and derail what I've posted. So who fears whom!  ;D

Thankfully Canada seems to be a little less preoccupied with YOUR fears that you think they should be.  I'd say it is the right direction to move in.

Oh, look. More generic, belligerent smack talk that actually says nothing but that "I'm glad Canada may not interfere with my hero's (Putin) aggression". ;D


Yes you do 'fear' terrorism, among other things, and you should.  Aggression can be implemented in different ways, and I'd say the Western world is plenty guilty as well, but that is to be completely disregarded in your very limited view.   :o

I may "fear" the acts of terrorism and violent aggression that your people may perpetrate on the civilized world in that I fear for the innocent lives affected. What sane person wouldn't.

However, I do not fear the perpetrators and those that are the amoral seditious agents of support (like yourself) of these crimes aggression and terrorism.

So again, you've inadvertently provided another example of the difference between fear (my kind)and cowardice (your kind). The Russian Troll Factory is really not getting their money's worth out of you at all. ;D

Brass

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 12:01:23 PM
Well, I've made strong enough arguments that you, being a Russian Troll has singled me out to attack and troll in your feeble attempts to misdirect and derail what I've posted. So who fears whom!  ;D

 


I'd say you seem to fear my viewpoint, far more than I fear yours, and others.  I don't think I've singled you out, I have disagreed with practically everybody at one time or another.  It is interesting though to see how you take things to extremes name call, and attempt to utterly discredit, rather than address each issue rationally.  I think that designates actual fear of a real discussion, which you should also have, since I believe your stances have been, and will likely continue to be borne out to be wrong.  The 'bad guys'  'good guys' silliness is mostly in your underdeveloped brain.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 12:11:11 PM
This is you self-supporting again.  You make counter points as you should. if you have a position...that is all...your neediness regarding outright winning is just simply your 'need'.  Ultimately you are limited by what has happened on the ground, and you can continue to polish a turd, but it remains a turd.  There are no good guys, this is not cowboys and Indians...funny how the reality of that analogy is so much different than what kids were 'taught'. 

This is you self-supporting again.

Another non statement. Of course it's "self supporting"...I'm the one you're attacking/trolling. 

  You make counter points as you should. if you have a position...that is all...your neediness regarding outright winning is just simply your 'need'.  Ultimately you are limited by what has happened on the ground, and you can continue to polish a turd, but it remains a turd.  There are no good guys, this is not cowboys and Indians...funny how the reality of that analogy is so much different than what kids were 'taught'. 

Wow, talk about complete amoral seditious dogma straight out of the Russian Troll Handbook.

We must be entering into the post 'any asinine comment to keep trolling' phase of your lunacy now. :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 12:23:11 PM
Another non statement. Of course it's "self supporting"...I'm the one you're attacking/trolling. 

Brass


Yes, you are an innocent victim of attacks and trolling!   :rolleyes:

Wow, talk about complete amoral seditious dogma straight out of the Russian Troll Handbook.

We must be entering into the post 'any asinine comment to keep trolling' phase of your lunacy now. :D

Brass
YOUR morality is not something anyone should strive for.  It involves absolutism of the mind, and in the end would create a perpetual state of war.   No thanks.  You can play cowboys and Indians in your living room, if that is what stimulates you. 


Fathertime!     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 12:30:22 PM
I'd say you seem to fear my viewpoint, far more than I fear yours, and others.  I don't think I've singled you out, I have disagreed with practically everybody at one time or another.  It is interesting though to see how you take things to extremes name call, and attempt to utterly discredit, rather than address each issue rationally.  I think that designates actual fear of a real discussion, which you should also have, since I believe your stances have been, and will likely continue to be borne out to be wrong.  The 'bad guys'  'good guys' silliness is mostly in your underdeveloped brain.

I don't fear Russian Trolls like yourself, fathertime. I simply show them for the amoral cowards they are. You've made that comically easy! ;D

There is no rationale to your "viewpoint" as you laughingly call your trolling. I've simply caught you again making untrue statements and presenting false facts in support of an aggressor nation you support.

You predictably try every means of deflection when caught peddling your lies but simply can't escape the obvious - You are an advocate and supporter of criminal regimes and terrorism.

Now, after all this hokum you've posted today we still end up at the reason your trying anything to deflect away from the crux of the matter with your comically asinine false assertions... ;D

Seems to me you should be trying to extract yourself from the corner you argued yourself into here (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg415865#msg415865) instead of making more uninformed comments on this topic, eh?  ;)


Brass




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 12:46:14 PM
I don't fear Russian Trolls like yourself, fathertime. I simply show them for the amoral cowards they are. You've made that comically easy! ;D

There is no rationale to your "viewpoint" as you laughingly call your trolling. I've simply caught you again making untrue statements and presenting false facts in support of an aggressor nation you support.

You predictably try every means of deflection when caught peddling your lies but simply can't escape the obvious - You are an advocate and supporter of criminal regimes and terrorism.

Now, after all this hokum you've posted today we still end up at the reason your trying anything to deflect away from the crux of the matter with your comically asinine false assertions... ;D


Brass


Of course you feel this way!  Not over-considering the Western viewpoint is called 'trolling', according to you! 


I'd say that you are a supporter of criminal regime, and terrorism, but you won't acknowledge it....probably don't realize it, and never will.  If we were to ignore our own injustices, and follow your paranoid prescriptions the majority of the people of the world would cease to be alive. 


I'd say the crux of the matter is that we can't let people with paranoia, fear, and selective memory, run nations that control a powerful military like ours....you provide a good example of the type we can't have in the white house....  We have lucked out so far.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 01, 2015, 12:50:49 PM
If Fathertime is a paid Russian troll, the Kremlin is certainly getting their moneys worth.  You are enabling him since nearly every one else ignores him and does not respond to his trolling.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 12:59:04 PM
Yes, you are an innocent victim of attacks and trolling!   :rolleyes:

Indeed.


YOUR morality is not something anyone should strive for.  It involves absolutism of the mind, and in the end would create a perpetual state of war.   No thanks.  You can play cowboys and Indians in your living room, if that is what stimulates you. 

My morality isn't at issue here, never was. I'm not the Russian Troll, fluffing a criminal dictator or supporting aggressor nation(s) nor do I continuously post lies and comments denigrating my own country or the west. That's all you, Mr. Russian Troll.  :D

You post absolutism, I call it "resolve". Cowboys and Indians is the wrong analogy to attribute in dealing with you. I liken your constant propaganda, trolling, Putin worship and support of aggressor nations and terrorism more to dealing with an unrepentant pedophile or rapist - You're some one who is as immoral and repugnant as they come and should be exposed for the safety of others as quickly as possible. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 01:00:53 PM
If Fathertime is a paid Russian troll, the Kremlin is certainly getting their moneys worth.  You are enabling him since nearly every one else ignores him and does not respond to his trolling.

Ignoring a problem is not the way I deal with things, Cal. Never has been. Besides, that's exactly what this punk fathertime is counting on.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on November 01, 2015, 01:07:21 PM
Either way, at least we can count on Russia to tell everyone the truth after the investigation.

Like Chernobyl or MH-17, at least the varying degrees of truth would be entertaining were they not so sadly stupid.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 01:16:21 PM
Indeed.


My morality isn't at issue here, never was. I'm not the Russian Troll, fluffing a criminal dictator or supporting aggressor nation(s) nor do I continuously post lies and comments denigrating my own country or the west. That's all you, Mr. Russian Troll.  :D 
Well actually YOU are the one who mistakenly brought morality into it. 



 I liken your constant propaganda, trolling, Putin worship and support of aggressor nations and terrorism more to dealing with an unrepentant pedophile or rapist - You're some one who is as immoral and repugnant as they come and should be exposed for the safety of others as quickly as possible. ;)

Brass


hahaha, so now i'm liked to a 'pedophile or rapist'...it is getting funnier and funnier how extreme you become, when you don't get your way. Sorry but in case you haven't noticed, that isn't the way the world always works, there can be competing ideas and despite your angry proclamations, the person bringing them forth, doesn't necessarily have to be a rapist to do so.




Ignoring a problem is not the way I deal with things, Cal. Never has been. Besides, that's exactly what this punk fathertime is counting on.

Brass


Just the other day, you exclaimed on anther thread not dealing with a problem in your household was the way you handled disputes, so now suddenly is not something you never did? How can both statements be accurate?  :o

[size=78%]Calmissile doesn't really ignore me, but he does often post that he does, right up until you responds to a post of mine!  You on the other hand, just fear that inconvenient truths are brought forth.     [/size]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 01:21:51 PM
Of course you feel this way!  Not over-considering the Western viewpoint is called 'trolling', according to you! 

More misdirection. What I consider trolling is your activities over the last 5 pages on this topic.

I'd say that you are a supporter of criminal regime, and terrorism, but you won't acknowledge it....probably don't realize it, and never will.  If we were to ignore our own injustices, and follow your paranoid prescriptions the majority of the people of the world would cease to be alive. 

More of your unsupported cowardice and seditious dogma and hypocrisy. You advocate living under the criminal dictators and criminal regimes you advocate and support instead...But you'd be safe and that's all the at counts, right? ;D

I'd say the crux of the matter is that we can't let people with paranoia, fear, and selective memory, run nations that control a powerful military like ours....you provide a good example of the type we can't have in the white house....  We have lucked out so far.

...And I'd say this current US administration is the anomaly. Men and women of resolve and morality have mostly found their way to the positions they needed to be in when they are needed. Churchill, Roosevelt, Reagan come to mind.

Criminal sympathizers like yourself seem to crawl out from the shadows when there is weak leadership.

It is you and the criminals you support that is the aberration and abhorrent symptom of the times. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 01:42:14 PM
Well actually YOU are the one who mistakenly brought morality into it. 

Not "mistakenly". I absolutely consider you an immoral individual.

hahaha, so now i'm liked to a 'pedophile or rapist'...it is getting funnier and funnier how extreme you become, when you don't get your way. Sorry but in case you haven't noticed, that isn't the way the world always works, there can be competing ideas and despite your angry proclamations, the person bringing them forth, doesn't necessarily have to be a rapist to do so.

You're the one applying analogies. I'm just using one of my own as well. ;D

Actaully, it has been exactly the way the world has worked. The world does not begin and end with your pathetic trolling. Infact, in the overall scheme of things your propaganda is'nt even relevant.  :D

Just the other day, you exclaimed on anther thread not dealing with a problem in your household was the way you handled disputes, so now suddenly is not something you never did? How can both statements be accurate?  :o

[size=78%]Calmissile doesn't really ignore me, but he does often post that he does, right up until you responds to a post of mine!  You on the other hand, just fear that inconvenient truths are brought forth.     [/size]


More false assertions and trolling from you...what I stated was the opposite. I posted I dealt with family issues in a manner that might not be successful in the poster's case.

Quote
I should add as a disclaimer. I was never very good with internal family conflicts...I tended to default to "Stop screwing around" which of course left most issues unresolved and simmering for a boil over later.

So whatever your course of action, try to avoid my default course of action. I've learned over the years it's not very successful when it comes to family matters.

So we can ad another exposed lie to your long list of lies you'll never answer to or withdraw, Mr. Russian Troll. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 01:42:51 PM
More misdirection. What I consider trolling is your activities over the last 5 pages on this topic.

More of your unsupported cowardice and seditious dogma and hypocrisy. You advocate living under the criminal dictators and criminal regimes you advocate and support instead...But you'd be safe and that's all the at counts, right? ;D

...And I'd say this current US administration is the anomaly. Men and women of resolve and morality have mostly found their way to the positions they needed to be in when they are needed. Churchill, Roosevelt, Reagan come to mind.

Criminal sympathizers like yourself seem to crawl out from the shadows when there is weak leadership.

It is you and the criminals you support that is the aberration and abhorrent symptom of the times.
'criminal supporter' 'sedation' 'pedophile' 'rapist', come on you can do better than that!    ;D


Yeah, you are a real credible discussion partner!  :rolleyes:




This is 2015, not 1940, what is needed is level headed, fair-minded solutions that takes into account all the nation's beefs. What is not needed is belligerent 'tough guys' on an imaginary chessboard, that are going to destroy the planet for the rest of the people that don't have a dog in the fight.   That is why somebody needs to send you and your type a little set of cowboys and Indians so you can go Bang-Bang, and feel fulfilled.  :)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 01:52:04 PM
Not "mistakenly". I absolutely consider you an immoral individual.
I'm devastated!  Thankfully your feelings don't make any difference, but it does go to your inability to discuss an issue without personalizing it! haha.  :)


Actaully, it has been exactly the way the world has worked. The world does not begin and end with your pathetic trolling. Infact, in the overall scheme of things your propaganda is'nt even relevant.  :D
 
Me, exposing my viewpoint is certainly relevant to YOU! Thank you.  :-*



More false assertions and trolling from you...what I stated was the opposite. I posted I dealt with family issues in a manner that might not be successful in the poster's case.

So we can ad another exposed lie to your long list of lies you'll never answer to or withdraw, Mr. Russian Troll. ;)

Brass
So dealing with a personal problem by not dealing with a personal problem is a course of action.   OK! 


I'm just saying, at least don't make things up about yourself! Perhaps you do in fact think a course of action is just absent mindedly 'bark an order' and actually think all should obey!  :crackwhip:


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 02:00:14 PM
'criminal supporter' 'sedation' 'pedophile' 'rapist', come on you can do better than that!    ;D

Yes I could. Accuracy does count though. I don't want to enter into your realm of completely unsupportable assertions.

Yeah, you are a real credible discussion partner!  :rolleyes:

I'm not "discussing". I'm refuting, debunking and exposing your false statements and trolling for what they are. There is a difference.

This is 2015, not 1940, what is needed is level headed, fair-minded solutions that takes into account all the nation's beefs. What is not needed is belligerent 'tough guys' on an imaginary chessboard, that are going to destroy the planet for the rest of the people that don't have a dog in the fight.   That is why somebody needs to send you and your type a little set of cowboys and Indians so you can go Bang-Bang, and feel fulfilled.  :)

Well, "my level headed, fair minded solution" is military intervention to stop your fanatical, criminal hero's aggression and bring to task anyone who would support terrorism and criminal behavior such as yourself. ;)

..."rest of the people that don't have a dog in the fight"...Everyone has a stake in stopping criminality and terrorism. It's only cowards like yourself who turn away when help is needed.

Actually, locking up criminals, pedophiles and rapists was more my game. I could always post your image on a "wanted" poster, I suppose. :D

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 02:12:07 PM
I'm not "discussing". I'm refuting, debunking and exposing your false statements and trolling for what they are. There is a difference.

Well, "my level headed, fair minded solution" is military intervention to stop your fanatical, criminal hero's aggression and bring to task anyone who would support terrorism and criminal behavior such as yourself. ;)

..."rest of the people that don't have a dog in the fight"...Everyone has a stake in stopping criminality and terrorism. It's only cowards like yourself who turn away when help is needed.

Actually, locking up criminals, pedophiles and rapists was more my game. I could always post your image on a "wanted" poster, I suppose. :D

Brass


What a mess of a post.  I continue to hold that it is your FEAR and bias that could easily create an unnecessary war.


Nobody is talking about not dealing with genuine 'terrorism' here, that is just you being ignorant, and disingenuous. ...a problem for you is, anything you don't approve of is 'terrorism'.  If it is your side committing the acts, it is not labeled 'terrorism'. 


Now come on, you should be able to do better than merely 'rapist' 'seditious' etc etc!  :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 02:16:12 PM
I'm devastated!  Thankfully your feelings don't make any difference, but it does go to your inability to discuss an issue without personalizing it! haha.  :)

Again, we aren't "discussing" any issue, I'm simply putting an end to your unopposed (for the most part)lies, constant trolling and propaganda on this forum especially as it pertains to my quotes. ;D

Me, exposing my viewpoint is certainly relevant to YOU! Thank you.  :-*

Indeed, see above.

So dealing with a personal problem by not dealing with a personal problem is a course of action.   OK! 

I'm just saying, at least don't make things up about yourself! Perhaps you do in fact think a course of action is just absent mindedly 'bark an order' and actually think all should obey!  :crackwhip:

If I had known you'd pick this statement to troll I would have worded it more carefully. However, using yet another quote of mine to further your trolling won't assist you as I've already debunked your lie up thread. ;)

Brass

 




 



[/quote]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 02:24:58 PM
Again, we aren't "discussing" any issue, I'm simply putting an end to your unopposed (for the most part)lies, constant trolling and propaganda on this forum especially as it pertains to my quotes. ;D

Indeed, see above.

If I had known you'd pick this statement to troll I would have worded it more carefully. However, using yet another quote of mine to further your trolling won't assist you as I've already debunked your lie up thread. ;)

Brass
Well, if you carefully word your posts just to convey an untruth, then that would be lying, so it is probably best that you just say what you need to say..  The main issue is that you made a somewhat contradictory statement later...no big deal, just a little humorous, that is all.   :D


If you continue to expect your quotes to be taken as gospel and unopposed, you will always be angry! It is actually not called trolling, it is called bringing up a different perspective....something that you can't handle....so I'm sure the labeling helps.  :-*


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 02:27:56 PM
What a mess of a post.  I continue to hold that it is your FEAR and bias that could easily create an unnecessary war.

And it's your cowardice and sedition advocating terrorism, aggression and idolatry of criminal dictators that practically guarantees war.

Nobody is talking about not dealing with genuine 'terrorism' here, that is just you being ignorant, and disingenuous. ...a problem for you is, anything you don't approve of is 'terrorism'.  If it is your side committing the acts, it is not labeled 'terrorism'.

You must be stupider than your posts suggest. You are in absolute support of the largest, most well funded terrorist state on the planet - Iran.  Which is exactly what my questions you simply can't answer pertain to.  :D

Now come on, you should be able to do better than merely 'rapist' 'seditious' etc etc!  :D

 My wording is accurate enough as it stands. ;D


Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 02:38:14 PM
Well, if you carefully word your posts just to convey an untruth, then that would be lying, so it is probably best that you just say what you need to say..  The main issue is that you made a somewhat contradictory statement later...no big deal, just a little humorous, that is all.   :D

Nope. That's just you trying more misdirection. What I stated was accurate and the truth in both posts.

Your attempt at further trolling me through yet another lie has failed.  ;D

If you continue to expect your quotes to be taken as gospel and unopposed, you will always be angry! It is actually not called trolling, it is called bringing up a different perspective....something that you can't handle....so I'm sure the labeling helps.  :-*

I've just yet again shown you to be the lying punk you are, fathertime. The only reason you persist with these nonsensical posts is to keep trolling me with deflective garbage.  :D

Answer the questions if you want to regain some credibility. ;)

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 02:41:28 PM
And it's your cowardice and sedition advocating terrorism, aggression and idolatry of criminal dictators that practically guarantees war.

You must be stupider than your posts suggest. You are in absolute support of the largest, most well funded terrorist state on the planet - Iran.  Which is exactly what my questions you simply can't answer pertain to.  :D

 My wording is accurate enough as it stands. ;D


Brass

As has already been stated numerous times, all the major powers unanimously voted for the Iran deal, so I think it is pretty obvious that they felt there were some mitigating factors regarding Iran and terrorism.  What is stupid is that you actually buy into what you are saying, when everybody close to the situation is doing something else.  Actions are the key, and that agreement is creating a set of actions, that apparently you don't like, because you feel you know better than everybody else....I don't think so. 


I don't know what questions you are referring to, but I would assume it has something to do with the post that you feverishly link, and I don't click on.  If you have a legit question, I'd be happy to help you,if you were to ask, but it seems you are incapable of doing that. You think you have all the answers, but of course you don't...people like that can be dangerous in positions of power, so thankfully you are tucked away jabbering with me instead of making important decisions.     


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 02:45:26 PM
Nope. That's just you trying more misdirection. What I stated was accurate and the truth in both posts.

Your attempt at further trolling me through yet another lie has failed.  ;D

I've just yet again shown you to be the lying punk you are, fathertime. The only reason you persist with these nonsensical posts is to keep trolling me with deflective garbage.  :D

Answer the questions if you want to regain some credibility. ;)

Brass


There are questions you have left unanswered, nobody is obligated to answer a question, especially a loaded question.  Perhaps you should restate the question that has you so upset, whatever it is.  I'm pretty sure whatever it is, it isn't very important. 


Thanks for the new words 'lying' 'punk'...we shall add them to the other list of angry names you substitute in instead of actual discussion!   Meanwhile, you haven't made much of a case for anything important!  :D


Fathertime! 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 02:59:43 PM
As has already been stated numerous times, all the major powers unanimously voted for the Iran deal, so I think it is pretty obvious that they felt there were some mitigating factors regarding Iran and terrorism.  What is stupid is that you actually buy into what you are saying, when everybody close to the situation is doing something else.  Actions are the key, and that agreement is creating a set of actions, that apparently you don't like, because you feel you know better than everybody else....I don't think so. 

Then you shouldn't be afraid to answer the questions then, should you? ;D

I don't know what questions you are referring to, but I would assume it has something to do with the post that you feverishly link, and I don't click on.  If you have a legit question, I'd be happy to help you,if you were to ask, but it seems you are incapable of doing that. You think you have all the answers, but of course you don't...people like that can be dangerous in positions of power, so thankfully you are tucked away jabbering with me instead of making important decisions.     

LOL, Seven pages of trying to avoid those questions and  now you again feign ignorance with you don't know what questions I refer to?!?

Well, let me link the post for the umpteenth time. ;D

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg415865#msg415865

We can go another ten pages of your trolling and diversions but that's the post this whole escapade is about. You can either answer or withdraw your comments, it's up to you. ;)

Brass





 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 03:15:51 PM
There are questions you have left unanswered, nobody is obligated to answer a question, especially a loaded question.  Perhaps you should restate the question that has you so upset, whatever it is.  I'm pretty sure whatever it is, it isn't very important. 

None of my questions were "loaded". They are simple questions asking you to clarify your assertions.   

Thanks for the new words 'lying' 'punk'...we shall add them to the other list of angry names you substitute in instead of actual discussion!   Meanwhile, you haven't made much of a case for anything important!  :D

And yet you've continued your trollfest  for 7 pages desperately trying to avoid the "case" I've made.  :D

For the third time in as many posts...We are not "discussing" anything.  I'm simply putting an end to your unopposed (for the most part) lies, constant trolling and propaganda on this forum especially as it pertains to my quotes.

You're the one posting untruthful assertions (lies). I'm Just calling it as I see it. ;)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 03:51:28 PM
Then you shouldn't be afraid to answer the questions then, should you? ;D

LOL, Seven pages of trying to avoid those questions and  now you again feign ignorance with you don't know what questions I refer to?!?

Well, let me link the post for the umpteenth time. ;D

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg415865#msg415865 (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg415865#msg415865)

We can go another ten pages of your trolling and diversions but that's the post this whole escapade is about. You can either answer or withdraw your comments, it's up to you. ;)

Brass


I have now reviewed your link....You will have to specify what question you are referring to...  it appears your question COULD be:


What "options under the table" do you think the Iranian Commander is alluding to?

but I actually don't know for sure, so I'll await your clarification if this is the question or not...if so it is an easy one to answer.   


Regardless, this thread isn't really about anything important, just that you don't like to be 'argued' with.  GOOD!  :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 01, 2015, 04:02:25 PM
You're a tad deluded.

 A "tad"  ??  More like completely delusional full on nut case -- seriously --no one with a vestige of sanity could hold his "opinions"--unless of course you were getting paid  to write such crap.
Of course--maybe boredom at the other place has reached such heights( lows?) that coming over here may "earn" him a bonus!   :D :cluebat:
All we need(not) is the current forum fool FT to support the ignorance! :)

NOTE: post was moved from thread where reply was directed ant a Manny post--
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 04:09:24 PM
A "tad"  ??  More like completely delusional full on nut case -- seriously --no one with a vestige of sanity could hold his "opinions"--unless of course you were getting paid  to write such crap.
Of course--maybe boredom at the other place has reached such heights( lows?) that coming over here may "earn" him a bonus!   :D :cluebat:
All we need(not) is the current forum fool FT to support the ignorance! :)


I expect nothing less than biased ignorance to flow from your keyboard.  You are forgiven, sweetheart.   :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 04:15:25 PM

I have now reviewed your link....You will have to specify what question you are referring to...  it appears your question COULD be:


What "options under the table" do you think the Iranian Commander is alluding to?

but I actually don't know for sure, so I'll await your clarification if this is the question or not...if so it is an easy one to answer.   


Regardless, this thread isn't really about anything important, just that you don't like to be 'argued' with.  GOOD!  :D

Well, for someone who's just spent 7 pages trolling me and doing everything he could to avoid these questions (and the one you refer to above), seems it was important to you, at least. ;D

Quote from: fathertime
I really wound't know what the Senators/Representatives knew beforehand....  I'm not surprised that Iran has all sorts of stuff we don't know about or seek our approval for, obviously they don't care if we approve or not....  I imagine that is part of the reason they were being so heavily sanctioned, especially by the US.
If you're not "surprised that Iran has all sorts of stuff we don't know about or seek our approval for, obviously they don't care if we approve or not." Why then do you believe that Iran would comply with the Obama Nuc Deal if they've already failed to adhere to previous UN resolutions forbidding the very ordnance they revealed to the world in those images?

If their record is such that "they don't care if we approve or not" what could possibly be the motivation for them to sign the deal in the first place? 

Quote from: fathertime
Perhaps that is in part why the deal was struck, because we knew they had some serious capability, to which the military option just wasn't going to turn out to be very easy, like it has been in other somewhat defenseless nations.

So why then would Obama and Kerry tell the American public and Congress that if the Iranians don't comply the military option is still on the table?

You are suggesting Obama's assurances were untruthful. Designed to give a false sense of security to those that opposed his agreement to get it ratified even though he knew the ability to deal with any non compliance by Iran wasn't going to be as easy as he assured it would be.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 04:51:18 PM
Well, for someone who's just spent 7 pages trolling me and doing everything he could to avoid these questions (and the one you refer to above), seems it was important to you, at least. ;D
If you're not "surprised that Iran has all sorts of stuff we don't know about or seek our approval for, obviously they don't care if we approve or not." Why then do you believe that Iran would comply with the Obama Nuc Deal if they've already failed to adhere to previous UN resolutions forbidding the very ordnance they revealed to the world in those images?

If their record is such that "they don't care if we approve or not" what could possibly be the motivation for them to sign the deal in the first place? 


So why then would Obama and Kerry tell the American public and Congress that if the Iranians don't comply the military option is still on the table?

You are suggesting Obama's assurances were untruthful. Designed to give a false sense of security to those that opposed his agreement to get it ratified even though he knew the ability to deal with any non compliance by Iran wasn't going to be as easy as he assured it would be.


Brass

No.  I don't think these questions are very important, or inditing, like you have making them out to be.  Nevertheless they are questions that you have, so why not discuss them at this point if it will help you settle down. :D 


Lets see if we can sort out your concerns. One by one of course....


Why would I think that Iran would comply with the agreement, based on prior U.N. resolutions they didn't comply with?    Well what resolutions did Iran agree to before this latest one?  Or did the UN just impose resolutions that Iran was ordered to comply with. Why the heck would Iran feel obligated to comply with what they feel is an unfair order from the UN that they did not trust? 
 This current agreement they have signed onto, so I think that makes it different than the ones imposed on them...and far more likely that they will comply, all things remaining equal.


Ok, your turn...


Fathertime!     
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 01, 2015, 05:44:18 PM

No.  I don't think these questions are very important, or inditing, like you have making them out to be.  Nevertheless they are questions that you have, so why not discuss them at this point if it will help you settle down. :D 


Lets see if we can sort out your concerns. One by one of course....

Pfft. Faced with the inevitable you now minimize the very reason for your last seven pages of trolling. ;D

Alright, I'll play your game...

Why would I think that Iran would comply with the agreement, based on prior U.N. resolutions they didn't comply with?    Well what resolutions did Iran agree to before this latest one?  Or did the UN just impose resolutions that Iran was ordered to comply with. Why the heck would Iran feel obligated to comply with what they feel is an unfair order from the UN that they did not trust? 
 This current agreement they have signed onto, so I think that makes it different than the ones imposed on them...and far more likely that they will comply, all things remaining equal.


Ok, your turn...

So, your idea of answering my question is posing several more questions trying to defend Iran's non compliance?  :D

"Why the heck would Iran feel obligated to comply with what they feel is an unfair order from the UN that they did not trust?"

Well, let's start with Iran is a member of the UN. Therefor by virtue of the UN charter, which Iran signed when they became a member, they are obligated to adhere to...

..."Under the Charter, all Member States are obligated to comply with Council decisions"...

http://www.un.org/en/sc/

..."This current agreement they have signed onto, so I think that makes it different than the ones imposed on them"...

Which would be great except the list of UN sanctions I previously posted were as a result of Iran breaking international agreements they'd already signed onto voluntarily.

Brass





 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2015, 07:58:48 PM
Pfft. Faced with the inevitable you now minimize the very reason for your last seven pages of trolling. ;D

Alright, I'll play your game...

 


What game are you playing?  This thread commenced after you objected to me saying "Good" after you stated Trudeau would be less apt to be hawkish, or something of that nature. 



So, your idea of answering my question is posing several more questions trying to defend Iran's non compliance?  :D

"Why the heck would Iran feel obligated to comply with what they feel is an unfair order from the UN that they did not trust?"

Well, let's start with Iran is a member of the UN. Therefor by virtue of the UN charter, which Iran signed when they became a member, they are obligated to adhere to...

..."Under the Charter, all Member States are obligated to comply with Council decisions"...

http://www.un.org/en/sc/ (http://www.un.org/en/sc/)

..."This current agreement they have signed onto, so I think that makes it different than the ones imposed on them"...

Which would be great except the list of UN sanctions I previously posted were as a result of Iran breaking international agreements they'd already signed onto voluntarily.

Brass

So now you are going to whine about the way the 'burning question' was answered!  Haha...It isn't an important question. 


So there are a lot of members of the UN, although very few permanent members in the security council.   Recently we were voted down in a non-binding vote 192-2 regarding our efforts in Cuba, but we didn't cooperate of course.  When something is imposed onto a state like Iran I don't blame them for not abiding. I'm having a hard time believing Iran voted for sanctions on themselves[size=78%] [/size]
 
What list of sanctions did you post?  What international treaty did Iran break?  What was there reasoning for breaking it?  Why did we overthrow their govt?  Lets hear more.   :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 02, 2015, 01:06:16 AM
Is that a bad thing?


I think its a good thing actually. For the last several years I have found the MOB business, along with many of its inhabitants and users, rather odious.

Manny, do you think anyone at RWD gives a shit what you think?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 02, 2015, 01:22:04 AM
 calmissile
Hero Member
*****
 
Re: Blah Blah Blah Part XIX
« Reply #137 on: Today at 01:06:16 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Manny on Today at 01:02:02 AM
Is that a bad thing?


I think its a good thing actually. For the last several years I have found the MOB business, along with many of its inhabitants and users, rather odious.
Calmissile replied--
Manny, do you think anyone at RWD gives a shit what you think?

What he said! :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 02, 2015, 07:09:47 AM
What game are you playing?  This thread commenced after you objected to me saying "Good" after you stated Trudeau would be less apt to be hawkish, or something of that nature. 

I didn't post "commenced", I posted "reason" for your last seven pages of trolling. ;D

So now you are going to whine about the way the 'burning question' was answered!  Haha...It isn't an important question. 

That's one of three questions that were asked, neither being "burning" other than you still don't appear to be able to answer them.

So there are a lot of members of the UN, although very few permanent members in the security council.   Recently we were voted down in a non-binding vote 192-2 regarding our efforts in Cuba, but we didn't cooperate of course.  When something is imposed onto a state like Iran I don't blame them for not abiding. I'm having a hard time believing Iran voted for sanctions on themselves[size=78%] [/size]

Actually, this is the 24th year in a row the UN has symbolically condemned the US embargo on Cuba in a non-binding vote.  That means no sanctions and the resolution carries no penalty.

However, we are not talking about the US, we are discussing Iran.

Iran is a member state and legally obligated to abide by UN security counsel decisions. These sanctions were as a result of Iran failing to abide by international agreements they voluntarily signed.

So, the questions are... Why then do you believe that Iran would comply with the Obama Nuc Deal if they've already failed to adhere to previous UN resolutions forbidding the very ordnance they revealed to the world in those images?

And If their record is such that "they don't care if we approve or not" what could possibly be the motivation for them to sign the deal in the first place?

No one said Iran voted for sanctions on themselves.
 
What list of sanctions did you post?  What international treaty did Iran break?  What was there reasoning for breaking it?  Why did we overthrow their govt?  Lets hear more.   :D

Nope, I'm not falling for your make me do all the work ploy. Go to the link I provided wherein there is another link where you can research the questions you've asked. 

You originally entered into a discussion with me arguing these very questions you now asking me to provide you information with. You're now admitting you did not have any knowledge of the topic you tried to argue against the points I was making in.

However, let's see if you can answer the question(s) without any further deflection.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 02, 2015, 07:35:08 AM
I didn't post "commenced", I posted "reason" for your last seven pages of trolling. ;D

That's one of three questions that were asked, neither being "burning" other than you still don't appear to be able to answer them.

Actually, this is the 24th year in a row the UN has symbolically condemned the US embargo on Cuba in a non-binding vote.  That means no sanctions and the resolution carries no penalty.

However, we are not talking about the US, we are discussing Iran.

Iran is a member state and legally obligated to abide by UN security counsel decisions. These sanctions were as a result of Iran failing to abide by international agreements they voluntarily signed.

So, the questions are... Why then do you believe that Iran would comply with the Obama Nuc Deal if they've already failed to adhere to previous UN resolutions forbidding the very ordnance they revealed to the world in those images?

And If their record is such that "they don't care if we approve or not" what could possibly be the motivation for them to sign the deal in the first place?

No one said Iran voted for sanctions on themselves.
 
Nope, I'm not falling for your make me do all the work ploy. Go to the link I provided wherein there is another link where you can research the questions you've asked. 

You originally entered into a discussion with me arguing these very questions you now asking me to provide you information with. You're now admitting you did not have any knowledge of the topic you tried to argue against the points I was making in.

However, let's see if you can answer the question(s) without any further deflection.

Brass
Tsk, tsk, tsk: you made an unsupported statement and refuse to provide a proper link to back it up...not my job to find a supporting link for YOUR statement. 


I've answered your 'question'...but you didn't like the answer....


but now you can see why there will be no point in 'answering your questions'. You must mistakenly think this is a one way interrogation, good luck with that!  :D [size=78%]  [/size]
[/size]
[/size]
[/size]


 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 02, 2015, 07:58:23 AM
Tsk, tsk, tsk: you made an unsupported statement and refuse to provide a proper link to back it up...not my job to find a supporting link for YOUR statement. 


I've answered your 'question'...but you didn't like the answer....


but now you can see why there will be no point in 'answering your questions'. You must mistakenly think this is a one way interrogation, good luck with that!  :D [size=78%]  [/size]
[/size]
[/size]
[/size]

All your quote says is you can't answer or substantiate your assertions. 

The 'supported' statements and link have been provided to you several times. You even stated you'd reviewed the link...

..."The UN Security Council passed a number of resolutions imposing sanctions on Iran, following the report by the International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors regarding Iran's non-compliance with its safeguards agreement and the Board's finding that Iran's nuclear activities raised questions within the competency of the Security Council."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran

..."The EU supports the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, which entered into force on 5 March 1970. Iran ratified this treaty assuring the international community that it will use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes.

In 2003, it was discovered by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) that Iran is conducting secret activities with nuclear materials. Iran’s refusal to cooperate proactively with the IAEA and its resistance to report to the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) led to a diplomatic effort by the European council and its three members France, Germany and the United Kingdom to resolve this issue through negotiations."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#Sanctions

Alright, I've provided you with even further information. Will you now answer my questions with no further deflection?


Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 02, 2015, 08:04:10 AM


Alright, I've provided you with even further information. Will you now answer my questions with no further deflection?


Brass
much better.

I will re-review the materials you have now provided...and get back to you later today as time permits....btw..never deflected to begin with. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 02, 2015, 08:10:57 AM
much better.

I will re-review the materials you have now provided...and get back to you later today as time permits....btw..never deflected to begin with. 

Riiight.  :rolleyes: ... Take your time.  ;)

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 02, 2015, 06:55:25 PM
NATO allies are working hard to deter Russian aggression against the Baltics.

Pushing against Putin in Europe




WIESBADEN, Germany — Often criticized for being naďve and complacent about Russian President Vladimir Putin’s ambitions, the Obama administration and its European allies are intensifying their planning and training for a potential conflict on NATO’s eastern flank, hoping to send the strongest possible message about Russian aggression.

Deterring Putin was a central theme at a conference here hosted by the U.S. Army, attended by generals from 38 European countries. Officials described escalating NATO activity — including a massive training exercise now underway and talk of U.S. troop increases — in terms reminiscent of the 1980s, when the alliance stared down Soviet-made Warsaw Pact tanks in central Europe. Tan and brown desert camouflage is out; forest greens are in.

The NATO exercise, named Trident Juncture, is the largest in more than a decade; it began in mid-October and wraps up late next week. It involves 36,000 troops responding to the invasion of a fictitious region called Ceresia by a hostile neighbor employing so-called hybrid guerrilla warfare tactics like those Putin has adopted in Ukraine. Operating in Spain, Portugal, Italy and surrounding Atlantic waters, the counter-force includes submarines, fighter jets and U.S. Marines storming beaches with landing craft.

The training is partly designed to increase military readiness — a sign of concern that Putin might launch another rapid military operation like his March 2014 seizure of Crimea, which caught the U.S. and Europe flat-footed.

But perhaps just as important, military leaders said, it helps Moscow understand that the U.S. and its allies are ready and willing to throw a counter-punch should he try something similar again.

“In order to deter an adversary, he has got to realize your capabilities. He’s got to be able to see it and smell it — from the news, from the exercises, from things like this conference,” the U.S. Army’s chief of staff, Gen. Mark A. Milley, told POLITICO. Milley was a co-host of the annual Conference of European Armies, a two-day affair in which generals from places as disparate as Lithuania and Italy discussed strategy, readiness and coordination.



http://www.politico.eu/article/us-against-putin-in-europe-nato-trident-exercise-military-forces/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 02, 2015, 07:42:22 PM
All your quote says is you can't answer or substantiate your assertions. 

The 'supported' statements and link have been provided to you several times. You even stated you'd reviewed the link...

..."The UN Security Council passed a number of resolutions imposing sanctions on Iran, following the report by the International Atomic Energy Agency Board of Governors regarding Iran's non-compliance with its safeguards agreement and the Board's finding that Iran's nuclear activities raised questions within the competency of the Security Council."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran)

..."The EU supports the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, which entered into force on 5 March 1970. Iran ratified this treaty assuring the international community that it will use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes.

In 2003, it was discovered by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) that Iran is conducting secret activities with nuclear materials. Iran’s refusal to cooperate proactively with the IAEA and its resistance to report to the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) led to a diplomatic effort by the European council and its three members France, Germany and the United Kingdom to resolve this issue through negotiations."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#Sanctions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#Sanctions)

Alright, I've provided you with even further information. Will you now answer my questions with no further deflection?


Brass


I've seen these links before.  They show that Iran has been sanctioned, especially by the US, and by Europe.  Of course Iran wasn't cooperating prior to sanctions, nor after them.  They didn't agree that their nuclear program should be under a special sanction, when other country's have been able to move forward with their own programs. 
The nuclear nations have never disarmed very much since 1970, as promised, so obviously they didn't hold up their end of the bargain either.  In addition, facts change over decades, like new nations becoming nuclear.   

Your original question was why would Iran comply now, when they didn't comply earlier.  My response earlier still stands, they have signed on specifically with this recent agreement with the "world powers".  So assuming nothing changes and we hold up our end of the bargain, I believe they will comply. 





and as if on cue Today's news.


Iran nuclear deal: Centrifuge decommissioning 'begins
Iran has begun to decommission uranium enrichment centrifuges in order to fulfil the nuclear deal struck with six world powers in July, its nuclear chief has announced during a visit to Japan.....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34703490 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34703490)


Fathertime! 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 03, 2015, 12:09:36 PM
I've seen these links before.  They show that Iran has been sanctioned, especially by the US, and by Europe.  Of course Iran wasn't cooperating prior to sanctions, nor after them.  They didn't agree that their nuclear program should be under a special sanction, when other country's have been able to move forward with their own programs. 
The nuclear nations have never disarmed very much since 1970, as promised, so obviously they didn't hold up their end of the bargain either.  In addition, facts change over decades, like new nations becoming nuclear.   

Yet they were a party to, negotiated and signed those very same agreements as stakeholders before breaking them just as they are party to, negotiated and signed this last agreement.

You allude to if others are breaking their agreements/contracts then Iran should break their agreements/contracts. What you fail to acknowledge is it was Iran who signed the agreements(s) then proceeded to willfully not comply.

That's why they were sanctioned.

Your original question was why would Iran comply now, when they didn't comply earlier.  My response earlier still stands, they have signed on specifically with this recent agreement with the "world powers".  So assuming nothing changes and we hold up our end of the bargain, I believe they will comply. 

If Iran also signed on to the other agreements and broke their word. Why should this time be any different?



and as if on cue Today's news.


Iran nuclear deal: Centrifuge decommissioning 'begins
Iran has begun to decommission uranium enrichment centrifuges in order to fulfil the nuclear deal struck with six world powers in July, its nuclear chief has announced during a visit to Japan.....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34703490 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34703490)

Well, not quite...

Iran says it's complying, but "Death to America" stands

"We have already started to take our measures vis-a-vis the removal of the centrifuge machines -- the extra centrifuge machines," Ali Akbar Salehi told Japan's public broadcaster NHK, according to the Reuters news agency.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-uranium-centrifuges-nuclear-deal-death-to-america-stands/

This is how they'll play their game. Start turning "extra" non-essential stuff off and demand the sanctions be lifted.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 03, 2015, 05:01:21 PM
Yet they were a party to, negotiated and signed those very same agreements as stakeholders before breaking them just as they are party to, negotiated and signed this last agreement.

You allude to if others are breaking their agreements/contracts then Iran should break their agreements/contracts. What you fail to acknowledge is it was Iran who signed the agreements(s) then proceeded to willfully not comply.
 


I'm not sure I get what you are saying here, but the fact is the other parties did not hold up their end of the agreements, so of course Iran would not hold up their end either.  Makes sense to me. 



If Iran also signed on to the other agreements and broke their word. Why should this time be any different?

If we don't hold up our end, i'm sure Iran won't hold up their end.  No difference. 





Well, not quite...

Iran says it's complying, but "Death to America" stands

"We have already started to take our measures vis-a-vis the removal of the centrifuge machines -- the extra centrifuge machines," Ali Akbar Salehi told Japan's public broadcaster NHK, according to the Reuters news agency.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-uranium-centrifuges-nuclear-deal-death-to-america-stands/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-uranium-centrifuges-nuclear-deal-death-to-america-stands/)

This is how they'll play their game. Start turning "extra" non-essential stuff off and demand the sanctions be lifted.

Brass
Of course they will turn off the less important stuff first, why would it be different.  That is the best strategy.    The deal is working out fine at this very early juncture. 


Death to America, signifying death to arrogant American policies, isn't going away, nor should it.  Given the history, regarding us admittedly overthrowing their government in the past, it could be understood why.  No problem,the deal still stands
Fathertime!   


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 03, 2015, 08:38:30 PM
Yawn. :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 03, 2015, 09:45:34 PM
Funny but also tragic article on how midget putin goes hiding for 2 days after the plane crash in Egypt as he doesn't like to have his precious name being associated with bad news...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/03/putin-was-missing-in-action-after-plane-crash.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 04, 2015, 08:06:35 AM
Everything's political.  A tragedy like this should be mourned by the whole country.  Instead, we see a bunch of political weather balloons and misdirection.  I am pretty sure, possessing both black boxes, that a preliminary determination of what went wrong has already been completed.

For those wondering, it was a Ukrainian terrorist who slipped a BUK missile launcher into Egypt and, with the help of the Syrian terrorists, pulled the trigger.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on November 04, 2015, 08:48:04 AM
Yawn. :deadhorse:


Now do you understand how I feel every time you copy and paste whole articles?


Can't you discuss the damn subject and post a link or is it too much to ask?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 04, 2015, 10:21:37 AM
I'm not sure I get what you are saying here, but the fact is the other parties did not hold up their end of the agreements, so of course Iran would not hold up their end either.  Makes sense to me. 

If we don't hold up our end, i'm sure Iran won't hold up their end.  No difference. 

There was no end for us to hold up. They were regulatory agreements signed by Iran then promptly were non compliant with.

Of course they will turn off the less important stuff first, why would it be different.  That is the best strategy.    The deal is working out fine at this very early juncture. 

I disagree. Turning off the centrifuge facilities that are actually producing the enriched uranium would mean the deal is working out fine.

Death to America, signifying death to arrogant American policies, isn't going away, nor should it.  Given the history, regarding us admittedly overthrowing their government in the past, it could be understood why.  No problem,the deal still stands

That's just the latest Iranian version of diplomacy in action. Up to Obama's nuc deal "Death to America" meant exactly that...Death to America. The same as  the Iranian call for 'death to Israel ' means exactly that...death to the state of Israel.

The current administration(s), both Iran and US are 'modifying' and downplaying the meaning and history of these 'Qud' (Holy) chants but along with the phraseology 'Big Satan'(US) and 'Little Satan' (Israel), these chants have a much more sinister meaning as it relates to the Koran.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 04, 2015, 02:07:41 PM

Now do you understand how I feel every time you copy and paste whole articles?


Can't you discuss the damn subject and post a link or is it too much to ask?

Personally-- I  with get little from sniping comments that some seem to persist with as their only contribution to the forums. Feel free to bypass my posts-the number of views shows that others do not do that!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on November 04, 2015, 02:14:54 PM
Oh PUH leeze.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on November 04, 2015, 04:22:31 PM
I don't think this has been posted previously:

Quote
US official says ISIS bomb is 'most likely' reason behind Russian jet crash as Britain orders ALL flights from Egypt to be grounded

'Definite feeling it was an explosive device planted in luggage or somewhere on the plane,' US official said

Security services saw 'additional activity' by terrorists in Sinai before crash

Intelligence agencies have preliminary evidence suggesting bomb brought down the plane, killing all 244 people on board Metrojet flight

Pentagon spokesman: 'We need to advise US workers not to go to Sinai'

Britain and Ireland ground all flights from Egypt, stranding 20,000 tourists


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3304237/US-official-says-ISIS-bomb-likely-reason-Russian-jet-crash-Britain-orders-flights-Egypt-grounded.html

You can read about one of the passengers, aspiring model Yelena Domashnyaya, here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3302404/Russian-restaurant-mourns-2-died-Egypt-air-crash.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 04, 2015, 07:23:15 PM
There was no end for us to hold up. They were regulatory agreements signed by Iran then promptly were non compliant with.

 
No end for us to hold up?  What deal are you referring to?  I'm pretty sure Iran (or any other country) isn't going to willfully get involved in bargains where there isn't some give and take. 



I disagree. Turning off the centrifuge facilities that are actually producing the enriched uranium would mean the deal is working out fine.
Moving in the right direction.




That's just the latest Iranian version of diplomacy in action. Up to Obama's nuc deal "Death to America" meant exactly that...Death to America. The same as  the Iranian call for 'death to Israel ' means exactly that...death to the state of Israel.

The current administration(s), both Iran and US are 'modifying' and downplaying the meaning and history of these 'Qud' (Holy) chants but along with the phraseology 'Big Satan'(US) and 'Little Satan' (Israel), these chants have a much more sinister meaning as it relates to the Koran.

Brass
If we took everything literal that some of our politicians say, we would live in a different world than we do now.  I have always felt that the 'death to America' chant was not as literal as you take it to be.  They are pissed about some of our policies though as it pertains to them, and they are not entirely wrong to be. 


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 04, 2015, 07:25:59 PM

btw-- Muzh joined in a chorus of forum fools in calling me a liar when I first came to the forums-- despite many opportunities to recant-or even apologise-- this so called will educated members persists in not being capable of admitting he made an error-- like I said-no class ! :)


I really don't think YOU are able to credibly call someone classless considering your own often crude/inane comments.  :D

[/size][size=78%]Fathertime!   [/size]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 04, 2015, 08:19:31 PM

I really don't think YOU are able to credibly call someone classless considering your own often crude/inane comments.  :D

[/size][size=78%]Fathertime!   [/size]



Is there no end to this inane flogs trolling?  Once again--he posts with zero( minus zero) idea what comments are about== but again--that does not stop his trolling.
The never ending stream of  his nonsense nothing posts continues. :deadhorse: :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 04, 2015, 08:43:50 PM
Is there no end to this inane flogs trolling?  Once again--he posts with zero( minus zero) idea what comments are about== but again--that does not stop his trolling.
The never ending stream of  his nonsense nothing posts continues. :deadhorse: :wallbash:


It seems to me that you are whining about 'trolling', when YOU are the one hysterically calling people names when they have their own opinion.  Given your attitude, it isn't surprising that no lady has taken very much interest in you, despite the financial advantages you might bring to the table. 


 How about following the forum rules, and allowing others to voice their own opinions without your silly hysterical outbursts?  :crackwhip:


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on November 05, 2015, 02:25:16 PM

For those wondering, it was a Ukrainian terrorist who slipped a BUK missile launcher into Egypt and, with the help of the Syrian terrorists, pulled the trigger.

And then Jack Ruby shot him dead.

Quote
Russia and Egypt brush off British suggestion that bomb caused plane to crash
If there was bomb.... that would mean that Egyptian airline scrutiny is incompetent losing face everywhere...Vlad would have to declare total war against ISIS

LINK


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-and-egypt-brush-off-british-suggestion-that-bomb-caused-plane-to-crash/2015/11/05/948df81c-834a-11e5-8bd2-680fff868306_story.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on November 05, 2015, 03:24:58 PM
And then Jack Ruby shot him dead.
If there was bomb.... that would mean that Egyptian airline scrutiny is incompetent losing face everywhere...Vlad would have to declare total war against ISIS

LINK


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-and-egypt-brush-off-british-suggestion-that-bomb-caused-plane-to-crash/2015/11/05/948df81c-834a-11e5-8bd2-680fff868306_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-and-egypt-brush-off-british-suggestion-that-bomb-caused-plane-to-crash/2015/11/05/948df81c-834a-11e5-8bd2-680fff868306_story.html)


Heh, give Slumba some time to get to the right conspiracy sites.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 05, 2015, 04:09:49 PM
The following article speculates on the reply Russia will give if it turns out that a bomb (likely scenario) brought down its airliner:

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-putins-dilemma-bomb-caused-syria-crash/27347371.html

Here are likely scenarios of Russian response:

1.  Denial

2.  Blame Egypt

3.  Blame the West

4.  Embrace and Employ

All four strategies have some peril for V.V. Putin.  It will be interesting to see which tact Russia takes.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 05, 2015, 05:29:01 PM
All four strategies have some peril for V.V. Putin.  It will be interesting to see which tact Russia takes.

Whatever Russia does, "tact" will not be involved.  If, on the other hand, you're waiting to see which "tack" Putin favours, that will surely be only after he guesses which theory is most likely to prevail - so that he can blame someone else with his usual imPutiny.  :devil:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 05, 2015, 09:15:00 PM
Who among you will bet against the assertion that Putin and his boys put the bomb on the plane?

Wouldn't be the first time he killed his own people to justify some future course of action.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on November 06, 2015, 01:41:02 AM
Russia will hint at Western blame as it gives them a "take that" moment after withering under incriminated evidence regarding MH-17. In fact, it started yesterday when the (Russian) Transport Safety Agency banned all domestic airlines from using Boeing 737 aircraft.

When ready, they'll announce guilt and then go after somebody.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 06, 2015, 08:11:24 AM
No end for us to hold up?  What deal are you referring to?  I'm pretty sure Iran (or any other country) isn't going to willfully get involved in bargains where there isn't some give and take. 

Same agreements I posted up thread...

..."Iran is a party to the NPT but was found in non-compliance with its NPT safeguards agreement and the status of its nuclear program remains in dispute. In November 2003 IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei reported that Iran had repeatedly and over an extended period failed to meet its safeguards obligations, including by failing to declare its uranium enrichment program.[23] After about two years of EU3-led diplomatic efforts and Iran temporarily suspending its enrichment program,[74] the IAEA Board of Governors, acting under Article XII.C of the IAEA Statute, found in a rare non-consensus decision with 12 abstentions that these failures constituted non-compliance with the IAEA safeguards agreement.[24] This was reported to the UN Security Council in 2006,[75] after which the Security Council passed a resolution demanding that Iran suspend its enrichment.[76] Instead, Iran resumed its enrichment program."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons

Moving in the right direction.

Turning off the centrifuges actually converting uranium is moving in the right direction.

If we took everything literal that some of our politicians say, we would live in a different world than we do now.  I have always felt that the 'death to America' chant was not as literal as you take it to be.  They are pissed about some of our policies though as it pertains to them, and they are not entirely wrong to be. 

Oh, it's not just their politicians chanting "Death To America". It's enshrined in their religious revolutionary constitution, it's a national holiday (4 Nov, Death to America Day) celebrated on the same day the Iranians stormed the US Embassy in Tehran), is regularly chanted at daily prayers and the slogans can be seen on giant murals in every major city in Iran.

You (Obama, Kerry and whatever the latest terrorist's name is running the country) can whitewash it all you want but they've been chanting this slogan for a lot of years with the meaning being exactly what it states...

(http://eaworldview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Death-to-America.jpg)

As well as their leader's calls to action...

(http://savingtherepublic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Rouhani-Death-to-America.jpg)

It simply boils down to this...

(http://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/death-to-america-iran-rally-sign.jpg)

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 06, 2015, 07:01:44 PM
Same agreements I posted up thread...

..."Iran is a party to the NPT but was found in non-compliance with its NPT safeguards agreement and the status of its nuclear program remains in dispute. In November 2003 IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei reported that Iran had repeatedly and over an extended period failed to meet its safeguards obligations, including by failing to declare its uranium enrichment program.[23] After about two years of EU3-led diplomatic efforts and Iran temporarily suspending its enrichment program,[74] the IAEA Board of Governors, acting under Article XII.C of the IAEA Statute, found in a rare non-consensus decision with 12 abstentions that these failures constituted non-compliance with the IAEA safeguards agreement.[24] This was reported to the UN Security Council in 2006,[75] after which the Security Council passed a resolution demanding that Iran suspend its enrichment.[76] Instead, Iran resumed its enrichment program."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons)

 


We did not hold up our end of the deal, circumstances changed...I'm sure Iran felt they weren't going to abide by their end either....Makes sense to me.




Turning off the centrifuges actually converting uranium is moving in the right direction.
yes, and that will be happening shortly also...assuming we don't violate our end of the deal.  The deal continue to slowly move ahead. 




You (Obama, Kerry and whatever the latest terrorist's name is running the country) can whitewash it all you want but they've been chanting this slogan for a lot of years with the meaning being exactly what it states...
I'm sure you believe that Iran is going to try to wipe us out.  I don't believe that is their intent.  I'm sure they want our meddlesome polices that affect them to die. Can't blame them.  If we continue to meddle, they will do what they can to make trouble for us.     


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 07, 2015, 08:29:57 AM
We did not hold up our end of the deal, circumstances changed...I'm sure Iran felt they weren't going to abide by their end either....Makes sense to me.

I've explained and substantiated my position twice in as many posts. You cannot just keep repeating "We did not hold up our end of the deal" as a mantra after I've just shown you this was not the case .

Your argument (mantra) is simply not true and a misrepresents the facts/history. Either substantiate your assertion or stop repeating it as it's false.

yes, and that will be happening shortly also...assuming we don't violate our end of the deal.  The deal continue to slowly move ahead. 

Nope. When the Iranians start turning off the centrifuges actually converting uranium, only then will they be moving in the right direction and the deal moving ahead.

I'm sure you believe that Iran is going to try to wipe us out.  I don't believe that is their intent.  I'm sure they want our meddlesome polices that affect them to die. Can't blame them.  If we continue to meddle, they will do what they can to make trouble for us.     

Iran's incapable of "wiping us out". What they are capable of is causing death and destruction through terrorism by employing the WMDs Obama's just allowed them to build and/or possibly starting a regional war.

It's not just US policies they want to die, it's the American/Western way of life they want dead as well.

The sooner you understand that about the fundamentalist state and by extension fundamentalist religion (Iran and Islam) you've thrown your support behind the better.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 07, 2015, 10:44:34 AM



Nope. When the Iranians start turning off the centrifuges actually converting uranium, only then will they be moving in the right direction and the deal moving ahead.

 
Kinda like how we probably decommissioned a bunch of old, and outdated nuclear weapons while keeping the best, we called that nuclear disarmament, so Iran can begin by playing that game.  Not a problem, par for the course, and I'm sure was already factored in.  It would be Western hypocrisy to demand differently, considering we would do the same.


 
I've explained and substantiated my position twice in as many posts. You cannot just keep repeating "We did not hold up our end of the deal" as a mantra after I've just shown you this was not the case .

 

I'm sure you are well aware of the arguments from the other side.

We still have 10's of 1000's of nuclear weapons.  How that can be considered disarmament would take some serious double talk.  Of course the 'have nots  on the wrong side of boorish American policy aren't going to consider that honoring the nuclear disarmament aspect of the agreement, so I already mentioned, if that aspect isn't honored than it voids the agreement as a whole.  In that respect, Iran is standing on steady ground, when moving forward with their own programs.   


 

It's not just US policies they want to die, it's the American/Western way of life they want dead as well.

The sooner you understand that about the fundamentalist state and by extension fundamentalist religion (Iran and Islam) you've thrown your support behind the better.

Brass
I don't think Iran cares how we live, as long as we stop screwing with how they live.  I have no interest in Islam nor supporting it, I am continuing to point out Western hypocrisy in the region.  If we were to actually acknowledge our own HUGE part in what is going on, I'd at least respect the honesty in that. Apparently politically that isn't feasible, and will likely never happen though. 


Fathertime!












Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 07, 2015, 02:53:38 PM
I've explained and substantiated my position twice in as many posts. You cannot just keep repeating "We did not hold up our end of the deal" as a mantra after I've just shown you this was not the case

Your argument (mantra) is simply not true and a misrepresents the facts/history. Either substantiate your assertion or stop repeating it as it's false.


Brass
You are making the mistake of presuming you are talking to someone with a vestige of "normal"intelligence-- save your breath ! And save the rest of us from seeing his drivel :) :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 07, 2015, 02:55:32 PM
You are making the mistake of presuming you are talking to someone with a vestige of "normal"intelligence-- save your breath ! And save the rest of us from seeing his drivel :) :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Nobody makes that mistake when 'talking' with you!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on November 07, 2015, 04:30:33 PM
Who among you will bet against the assertion that Putin and his boys put the bomb on the plane?

 

Actually, Alex Jones [on Infowars the other day] suggested that Obama and his boys did it to get the Russians hot after ISIS.

 
Quote
Sharm el-Sheikh is an Egyptian resort area between the desert of the Sinai Peninsula and the Red Sea. It's known for its long beaches and clear waters. Naama Bay, a palm-tree-lined promenade, is filled with lively bars and restaurants. Ras Muhammad National Park is a major diving destination, with coral life around the Shark and Yolanda reefs and the Thistlegorm wreck.

Hotels (http://www.google.com/search?biw=1024&bih=620&q=sharm+el+sheikh+hotels&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CIoBEOgTKAAwFGoVChMIm8Wmkbj_yAIVgV4mCh10TwFX): 3-star averaging $30, 5-star averaging $100. View hotels (http://www.google.com/search?biw=1024&bih=620&q=sharm+el+sheikh+hotels&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CIsBEDEoATAUahUKEwibxaaRuP_IAhWBXiYKHXRPAVc) Getting there (http://www.google.com/search?biw=1024&bih=620&q=sharm+el+sheikh+getting+there&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CI4BEOgTKAAwFWoVChMIm8Wmkbj_yAIVgV4mCh10TwFX): 18 h 43 min flight, around $2,430. View flights (http://www.google.com/search?biw=1024&bih=620&q=flights+to+sharm+el+sheikh&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CI8BEDEoATAVahUKEwibxaaRuP_IAhWBXiYKHXRPAVc)
Weather (http://www.google.com/search?biw=1024&bih=620&q=sharm+el+sheikh+weather&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMQfsRYxS3w5GKvpFShkDAXm2NySWZ-nhAnF3t4amJJRmqRUBQXh09-ciJY2E9IiovbrSg1NSmxONU3M0WIm4tTP1ffwMjMLDsLqJ3HNa8ks6TSrzQ3CaiTmYvRQEiaS8QzryS1qKAotQRsCJIkDwBFw7WufwAAAA&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CJIBEOgTKAAwFmoVChMIm8Wmkbj_yAIVgV4mCh10TwFX): 76°F (24°C), Wind N at 16 mph (26 km/h), 47% Humidity
  (http://www.google.com/search?biw=1024&bih=620&q=sharm+el+sheikh+local+time&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LUz9U3MDIzy87SUshOttLPyU9OLMnMz9NPziypLMkvz7MCieQolGTmpgIAc6IdJC8AAAA&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CJUBEOgTKAAwF2oVChMIm8Wmkbj_yAIVgV4mCh10TwFX)
Population (http://www.google.com/search?biw=1024&bih=620&q=sharm+el+sheikh+population&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LUz9U3MDIzy87S0spOttLPyU9OLMnMz9MvLgHSxSWZyYk58UWp6UAhq4L8gtIcsCwAd4o-nTkAAAA&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CJgBEOgTKAAwGGoVChMIm8Wmkbj_yAIVgV4mCh10TwFX): 73,000 (2015)

Events (http://www.google.com/search?biw=1024&bih=620&q=sharm+el+sheikh+events&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgEOLUz9U3MDIzy85SQjC1VLOTrfRz8pMTSzLz8_STM0sqS_LL86xKC5LzczPz0hVSy1LzSooBGNf-nD8AAAA&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CJoBEDEoADAZahUKEwibxaaRuP_IAhWBXiYKHXRPAVc)
Urban Knights | Sam Smoove & MC SmileSpace SharmSatNov 7

http://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Sharm+el-Sheikh


And there's free camel rides for the kiddies!

They might not be having the  Urban Knights program tonight.

Better just to go to Atlantic City or Virginia Beach.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on November 08, 2015, 01:23:31 AM
Quote
Actually, Alex Jones [on Infowars the other day]

Jones never misses an opportunity to invent new conspiracy theories. Once in a while he stumbles onto something legit, but that seems to the the exception rather than the rule. If he were honest, he'd take on Putin (and others) as much as he does the USA.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 08, 2015, 11:02:52 AM
Watch the news shows on Sunday's while doing our Pilates routines.

The ex second in command of CIA reported that it was becoming  more convincing that a bomb brought down the airplane.

But, I was disappointed that rather than physical evidence (which apparently USA  won't see because they  won't let us near the plane), he was basing this on intercepted communications.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 08, 2015, 02:53:21 PM
Kinda like how we probably decommissioned a bunch of old, and outdated nuclear weapons while keeping the best, we called that nuclear disarmament, so Iran can begin by playing that game.  Not a problem, par for the course, and I'm sure was already factored in.  It would be Western hypocrisy to demand differently, considering we would do the same.

You're making stuff up again. You can't just stick "probably" in front of an outlandish comment related to a different treaty (NPT) and expect it to stand as a credible explanation as to why Iran is already starting to fudge the Obama deal.


I'm sure you are well aware of the arguments from the other side.

We still have 10's of 1000's of nuclear weapons.  How that can be considered disarmament would take some serious double talk.  Of course the 'have nots  on the wrong side of boorish American policy aren't going to consider that honoring the nuclear disarmament aspect of the agreement, so I already mentioned, if that aspect isn't honored than it voids the agreement as a whole.  In that respect, Iran is standing on steady ground, when moving forward with their own programs.   

The US does not have 10's of 1000's of nuclear weapons. They have something around 1900 in their strategic arsenal.

And as I've already mentioned you're trying to confuse Obama's Nuc Deal with the NPT. Iran has simply not adhered to the NPT, ergo the sanctions and the (illogical as it is) reasoning behind the Obama deal.

I don't think Iran cares how we live, as long as we stop screwing with how they live.  I have no interest in Islam nor supporting it, I am continuing to point out Western hypocrisy in the region.  If we were to actually acknowledge our own HUGE part in what is going on, I'd at least respect the honesty in that. Apparently politically that isn't feasible, and will likely never happen though. 

You might want to read up on the term "Infidel" as it relates to fundamentalist Islam.

By supporting Iran as you do you support their fundamentalist religion. The two are not distinct.

Iran is a theocratic republic subject to an Islamic Supreme leader. If you don't understand what that means look it up.

It's not feasible (pointing out hypocrisy) because the way you view it isn't reality. You might as well be one of those radicals marching down the street holding up the big "Death to America" banners I posted earlier.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 08, 2015, 03:51:29 PM

Kinda like how we probably decommissioned a bunch of old, and outdated nuclear weapons while keeping the best, we called that nuclear disarmament, so Iran can begin by playing that game.   

You're making stuff up again. You can't just stick "probably" in front of an outlandish comment related to a different treaty (NPT) and expect it to stand as a credible explanation as to why Iran is already starting to fudge the Obama deal.

 
Brass


The news of the day continues to help make a case against what you are saying.   Just TODAY, Ash Carter says this:
"He added that the United States was modernizing its nuclear arsenal"

http://news.yahoo.com/us-deeply-concerned-risk-conflict-china-sea-pentagon-215428599.html;_ylt=AwrXnCEGyz9WplYAmkHQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByb2lvbXVuBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg-- (http://news.yahoo.com/us-deeply-concerned-risk-conflict-china-sea-pentagon-215428599.html;_ylt=AwrXnCEGyz9WplYAmkHQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByb2lvbXVuBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--)


That is not exactly 'disarming', as was called for in the prior agreement Iran was a part of.  YES, I can stick 'probably' in front of my earlier statement, the likelihood of us destroying our best nuclear weapons is 0%, we got rid of the older ones....but if you want to argue differently, go ahead.  I'd like to see your case. 



The US does not have 10's of 1000's of nuclear weapons. They have something around 1900 in their strategic arsenal.


 
I think you are downplaying how many nuclear weapons we have.   OK not 10's of 1000's alone, but CNN states around 7600 for the US, 8,400 for Russia. Others have slightly different numbers.  In addition, some of the weapons we have are more powerful than in the past.  We have NOT disarmed, we could still destroy the planet,so in that respect it makes no difference, any denial of that is double talk.  We did not fulfill our end of the deal, so Iran or any other nation probably doesn't feel obligated to hold up their end on that basis. I can see why the 'have not' nations, that are subject to wanton attack would want a way to stop this from happening. 


http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/03/world/nuclear-weapon-states/ (http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/03/world/nuclear-weapon-states/)






You might want to read up on the term "Infidel" as it relates to fundamentalist Islam.

By supporting Iran as you do you support their fundamentalist religion. The two are not distinct.

Iran is a theocratic republic subject to an Islamic Supreme leader. If you don't understand what that means look it up.

It's not feasible (pointing out hypocrisy) because the way you view it isn't reality. You might as well be one of those radicals marching down the street holding up the big "Death to America" banners I posted earlier.

Brass
This is all YOUR interpretation of things.  By perpetuating a phony reason to disdain Iran, it gives our military reason for bombing and oppressing  them, which apparently was deemed a net benefit to us.  Since people around the world have caught on were no longer going to hold the sanction line, that line of reasoning no longer seems to be working, we were forced to negotiate a fair deal, which is what is in place now, much to your chagrin.  I do believe you aren't seeing things as clearly as you think you are.  Our history in Iran is nothing to be proud of, and has everything to do with current events.   


Fathertime!   









Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 08, 2015, 04:47:47 PM

The news of the day continues to help make a case against what you are saying.   Just TODAY, Ash Carter says this:
"He added that the United States was modernizing its nuclear arsenal"

http://news.yahoo.com/us-deeply-concerned-risk-conflict-china-sea-pentagon-215428599.html;_ylt=AwrXnCEGyz9WplYAmkHQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByb2lvbXVuBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg-- (http://news.yahoo.com/us-deeply-concerned-risk-conflict-china-sea-pentagon-215428599.html;_ylt=AwrXnCEGyz9WplYAmkHQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByb2lvbXVuBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--)


That is not exactly 'disarming', as was called for in the prior agreement Iran was a part of.  YES, I can stick 'probably' in front of my earlier statement, the likelihood of us destroying our best nuclear weapons is 0%, we got rid of the older ones....but if you want to argue differently, go ahead.  I'd like to see your case. 
 

It doesn't make a case against me in the slightest. You do understand that the treaty recognizes 5 nuclear weapons states, the US being one of them, right?

The US modernizing their nuclear arsenal is not in contravention of the NPT treaty. The anti Nuc people/organizations don't like any of the nuclear weapons nations modernizing and will kick up a fuss but it's not in contravention of the treaty.

I think you are downplaying how many nuclear weapons we have.   OK not 10's of 1000's alone, but CNN states around 7600 for the US, 8,400 for Russia. Others have slightly different numbers.  In addition, some of the weapons we have are more powerful than in the past.  We have NOT disarmed, we could still destroy the planet,so in that respect it makes no difference, any denial of that is double talk.  We did not fulfill our end of the deal, so Iran or any other nation probably doesn't feel obligated to hold up their end on that basis. I can see why the 'have not' nations, that are subject to wanton attack would want a way to stop this from happening. 

For the 5th or 6th time. There was no end of a deal for the US to fulfill. The NPT is a regulatory agreement.

And I think you're going to keep making stuff up. Iran wants nucs. They're willing to break any treaties, endure sanctions and obstruct regulatory bodies to achieve break out.

All this stuff you keep posting about the West not holding up/fulfilling their end of some agreement with Iran is nonsense. *It doesn't exist.*

It doesn't really matter if the US, UK, China or Russia has 1 nuc or a million nucs. It's not relevant to the Iranian situation. Get it?

This is all YOUR interpretation of things.  By perpetuating a phony reason to disdain Iran, it gives our military reason for bombing and oppressing  them, which apparently was deemed a net benefit to us.  Since people around the world have caught on were no longer going to hold the sanction line, that line of reasoning no longer seems to be working, we were forced to negotiate a fair deal, which is what is in place now, much to your chagrin.  I do believe you aren't seeing things as clearly as you think you are.  Our history in Iran is nothing to be proud of, and has everything to do with current events.   

It is not my interpretation of things it's the Islamic fundamentalist interpretation of things. You need to understand that.

I have not created a phony reason to disdain Iran. I'm showing you that they've broken every prior agreement they've been a party to and can't be trusted.

The rest of your paragraph is just your own particular brand of hate filled ideology. You seemingly have a pathological hatred of the US and other than to say you're posting complete nonsense I wont bother answering to it as, like a looped program, you'll just continue repeating your mantra anyways.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 08, 2015, 05:08:31 PM
It doesn't make a case against me in the slightest. You do understand that the treaty recognizes 5 nuclear weapons states, the US being one of them, right?

The US modernizing their nuclear arsenal is not in contravention of the NPT treaty. The anti Nuc people/organizations don't like any of the nuclear weapons nations modernizing and will kick up a fuss but it's not in contravention of the treaty.

Of course that is the way you see it.  A nation that expected actual disarmament would see it another way.  Still having 7600 nukes is not disarmament therefore we have not fulfilled our end of the agreement. 






For the 5th or 6th time. There was no end of a deal for the US to fulfill. The NPT is a regulatory agreement.

Brass


So according to what you are saying the USA doesn't have to anything, but Iran and other nations do.  You may see it that way, but that isn't the way other nations see are likely seeing it.



It is not my interpretation of things it's the Islamic fundamentalist interpretation of things. You need to understand that.

I have not created a phony reason to disdain Iran. I'm showing you that they've broken every prior agreement they've been a party to and can't be trusted.

The rest of your paragraph is just your own particular brand of hate filled ideology. You seemingly have a pathological hatred of the US and other than to say you're posting complete nonsense I wont bother answering to it as, like a looped program, you'll just continue repeating your mantra anyways.

Brass
Obviously you are 100% defending the hard line western viewpoint....the world's powers obviously did decide to trust Iran enough to make the agreement.  So that seems to indicate your attitude is not the prevailing attitude. 


Once again, we are the ones interfering with Iran, and have been for decades..threatened to bomb them numerous times..they have good reason to be very cautious in entering any sort of agreement with us.  It is amazing how the story is turned around in some people's minds. 


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 09, 2015, 11:17:10 AM
Of course that is the way you see it.  A nation that expected actual disarmament would see it another way.  Still having 7600 nukes is not disarmament therefore we have not fulfilled our end of the agreement. 

So according to what you are saying the USA doesn't have to anything, but Iran and other nations do.  You may see it that way, but that isn't the way other nations see are likely seeing it.

Obviously you are 100% defending the hard line western viewpoint....the world's powers obviously did decide to trust Iran enough to make the agreement.  So that seems to indicate your attitude is not the prevailing attitude. 

Once again, we are the ones interfering with Iran, and have been for decades..threatened to bomb them numerous times..they have good reason to be very cautious in entering any sort of agreement with us.  It is amazing how the story is turned around in some people's minds. 

...And you just keep posting the same nonsensical responses over and over again.

I've shown/demonstrated/linked/substantiated/refuted time and again these statements/assertions of yours are not valid or based in reality.

Asking you to clarify the second question will be as fruitless an endeavor as well, I'm sure.

I'm moving on from your fallacious hate filled posts as even I have now concluded that all I'm doing is giving you a podium to preach your slurs and propaganda from. I'm sure as time goes on and the Iranians continue to show the western world how they've been played ultimately I'll be proven correct.

In the meantime I'll leave you to continue wallowing in your own particular brand of lunacy.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: John_A on November 09, 2015, 12:39:57 PM
Personal attacks are just not necessary.
If it's [internet relationship] not working out, then move on.
The 'guidance' not appreciated ??...then learn how to use the ignore function.

True, but if someone says something that has NO POINT to it except to be an arrogant ass and give you a figurative kick in the nuts, I'm not going to put up with it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: John_A on November 09, 2015, 12:41:49 PM

Oy. Pig, huh?


Playing little mind games to see who is superior. A birthday card for her birthday. How economical.


Dude, you are dealing with another culture. The world is not America. I know that in your (red)neck of the woods some DO believe that. However, you are part of the academia, or so you say. And that by itself should separate you from the ignoramus.


If you believe you are so right, as demonstrated by the little mind games you are playing, then stick with the people that are familiar with these stupid games. If not, then STFU and listen because you have a lot to learn.


That is, if you want to end up in a good relationship. However, I'm not holding my hopes too high based on your knee-jerk reaction of foot-in-mouth.


At least I know now where to categorize you.  ;)


Oy. Pig, huh?


Playing little mind games to see who is superior. A birthday card for her birthday. How economical.


Dude, you are dealing with another culture. The world is not America. I know that in your (red)neck of the woods some DO believe that. However, you are part of the academia, or so you say. And that by itself should separate you from the ignoramus.


If you believe you are so right, as demonstrated by the little mind games you are playing, then stick with the people that are familiar with these stupid games. If not, then STFU and listen because you have a lot to learn.


That is, if you want to end up in a good relationship. However, I'm not holding my hopes too high based on your knee-jerk reaction of foot-in-mouth.


At least I know now where to categorize you.  ;)

Look fellah, you don't know the whole story so maybe you should shut it. I came here for advice originally but its clear that there are a good number of losers on this board who don't have enough to do in their lives except flame others with their assholish-ness by saying pointless things like "no wonder you're still looking." Seriously, is your life so bereft of value, do you have such low self-worth that all you can do is sit around try and belittle people for no reason? People who do that are pigs, that's why the name suits you. There's no other reason why you would be doing that unless you were a pig. I'm guessing your own life must be really happy  :D

Everyone deals with emotional manipulation in their own way. If you want to let someone treat you like a child by "withholding" because they don't get their way, please, be my guest.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on November 09, 2015, 12:43:10 PM
Oh boy, what a loser.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on November 09, 2015, 12:51:18 PM
LMFAO


Trust me. I will not get into little mind games with dude.  :P


 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 09, 2015, 12:59:25 PM
Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko has threatened to cut all government funding for anti-doping work after a WADA commission report slammed the country's record.

The WADA report says the Russian anti-doping agency was under improper influence from Mutko's ministry, that it had given athletes advance notice of tests and that its employees "routinely" took bribes from athletes to cover up doping.

The head of the national anti-doping laboratory is accused of overseeing the destruction of 1,417 samples shortly before a WADA team visited.



http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/30470058/the-latest-mutko-threatens-to-stop-anti-doping-work
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 09, 2015, 01:37:26 PM
Russia Hides Data on State Property in Foreign Countries
By Peter Hobson
Nov. 09 2015 15:51

The decision to conceal information comes as Russian state property overseas is threatened by a dispute with former shareholders in the defunct Yukos oil firm.
.

Details of property owned by the Russian government overseas have been made secret due to national security concerns and the “unfriendly” policies of certain foreign countries, the RBC news agency reported Monday.

During an investigation into assets belonging to a Kremlin department, RBC found that it could not access data on Russian state assets abroad, despite laws requiring the information to be made public.

“In the interest of national security, including in connection with the unfriendly policies of some countries, information about federal property located overseas is not published online on the website of [the Federal Agency for State Property Management] Rosimushchestvo,” Alexei Chubar, Rosimushchestvo's deputy head, wrote to RBC.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-hides-data-on-state-property-in-foreign-countries/546230.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 09, 2015, 01:41:55 PM
Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko has threatened to cut all government funding for anti-doping work after a WADA commission report slammed the country's record.

The WADA report says the Russian anti-doping agency was under improper influence from Mutko's ministry, that it had given athletes advance notice of tests and that its employees "routinely" took bribes from athletes to cover up doping.

The head of the national anti-doping laboratory is accused of overseeing the destruction of 1,417 samples shortly before a WADA team visited.



http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/30470058/the-latest-mutko-threatens-to-stop-anti-doping-work

Are you saying (or is the article saying) that Russia plans to stop Anti-Doping work because no one believes their credibility.  Or is he threatening to stop it until they get their act together?

If Russia does not have Anti-Doping practices in place, they will be excluded from all international sporting venues, including the World Cup.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 09, 2015, 02:14:43 PM
...And you just keep posting the same nonsensical responses over and over again.

I've shown/demonstrated/linked/substantiated/refuted time and again these statements/assertions of yours are not valid or based in reality.

Asking you to clarify the second question will be as fruitless an endeavor as well, I'm sure.

I'm moving on from your fallacious hate filled posts as even I have now concluded that all I'm doing is giving you a podium to preach your slurs and propaganda from. I'm sure as time goes on and the Iranians continue to show the western world how they've been played ultimately I'll be proven correct.

In the meantime I'll leave you to continue wallowing in your own particular brand of lunacy.

Brass


Actually I see it as you are running away from the legitimate points, that really can not be refuted effectively.  We (the US) have in fact not disarmed.  And I'm not saying we should, but insofar as the NPT agreement goes, it was a part that we did not hold up, so Iran has likely felt that they were also not obligated. 


Nations have learned that not having the ability to defend themselves, means we (the USA) may invade, foment, or bomb them, if we feel it is in our interest to do so.    Libya, Syria, Iraq, are 3 recent examples.  We were probably very close to trying the same in Iran, but lack of international support and Iran's ability to make it  more difficult militarily and asymmetrically than would be palatable is probably the reason we negotiated a fair deal instead. 


As far as I'm concerned YOU are wallowing in your own brand of lunacy, a militant dangerous lunacy if it were to ever be implemented. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 09, 2015, 02:25:03 PM

Actually I see it as you are running away from the legitimate points, that really can not be refuted effectively. We (the US) have in fact not disarmed.  And I'm not saying we should, but insofar as the NPT agreement goes, it was a part that we did not hold up, so Iran has likely felt that they were also not obligated. 


Nations have learned that not having the ability to defend themselves, means we (the USA) may invade, foment, or bomb them, if we feel it is in our interest to do so.    Libya, Syria, Iraq, are 3 recent examples.  We were probably very close to trying the same in Iran, but lack of international support and Iran's ability to make it  more difficult militarily and asymmetrically than would be palatable is probably the reason we negotiated a fair deal instead. 


As far as I'm concerned YOU are wallowing in your own brand of lunacy, a militant dangerous lunacy if it were to ever be implemented. 

They are not legitimate points and it was you who was caught out fabricating false arguments as I've clearly shown in the 6 or so posts preceding this one. That is irrefutable.

The rest of your post is simply parroting my comments. Although I highly doubt you're capable of it try and think for yourself.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 09, 2015, 02:38:03 PM
They are not legitimate points and it was you who was caught out fabricating false arguments as I've clearly shown in the 6 or so posts preceding this one. That is irrefutable.

The rest of your post is simply parroting my comments. Although I highly doubt you're capable of it try and think for yourself.

Brass


Although you delusionally think you can sweep under the rug the Western nations misdeeds that create these problems, you have done nothing (as usual) to dispute the argument I made regarding the US not holding up our end of the NPT.  We expect everybody else to stay non-nuclear, and we don't disarm, it isn't surprising nations that aren't aligned with us, would consider moving forward with any program to detract from our ability to control them.  We have in fact, attempted to bully our way through the Mideast, for our own purposes, certainly not to 'help' the citizenry of those nations. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 09, 2015, 02:41:59 PM

Although you delusionally think you can sweep under the rug the Western nations misdeeds that create these problems, you have done nothing (as usual) to dispute the argument I made regarding the US not holding up our end of the NPT.  We expect everybody else to stay non-nuclear, and we don't disarm, it isn't surprising nations that aren't aligned with us, would consider moving forward with any program to detract from our ability to control them.  We have in fact, attempted to bully our way through the Mideast, for our own purposes, certainly not to 'help' the citizenry of those nations. 

More mindless regurgitated ideology. One day you may grow out of it.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 09, 2015, 02:51:18 PM
More mindless regurgitated ideology. One day you may grow out of it.

Brass


I think it is a little late for you to grow out of your mindlessness.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 09, 2015, 03:18:36 PM





Russia faces ban from athletics for widespread doping offences

GENEVA  |  By Brian Homewood

 
Russia could be banned from international athletics, including the 2016 Olympic Games, after an anti-doping commission report on Monday alleged widespread corruption and collusion that added up to a state-sponsored drugs culture in a sporting superpower.

The commission, set up by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), found a "deeply rooted culture of cheating" in Russian athletics, which it said Russian state security services colluded with, and also identified what it called systemic failures in the global governing body, the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF).

Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/09/us-athletics-corruption-idUSKCN0SY1NG20151109#cAgGXMSd0fFx8PPr.99

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 09, 2015, 03:22:47 PM
Funny that they would find this in athletics.  It permeates the entire governmental structure of Russia.  Would that we could exclude Russia for all banking and political interaction until they cleaned up their act.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 09, 2015, 04:38:18 PM
The commission, set up by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), found a "deeply rooted culture of cheating" in Russian athletics, which it said Russian state security services colluded with, and also identified what it called systemic failures in the global governing body, the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF).

I have posted here several times that Russians are the scum of the earth.

It permeates every phase of their life and culture.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 09, 2015, 04:48:20 PM
I disagree with your assertion, ML.  Plus, I think the culture now is Soviet.  Not Russian.  Or Ukrainian.  If you know any Russian emigres who retained their culture, or Ukrainians who left before the Bolsheviks absorbed them, you would notice the difference.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 09, 2015, 04:54:58 PM
I disagree with your assertion, ML.  Plus, I think the culture now is Soviet.  Not Russian.  Or Ukrainian.  If you know any Russian emigres who retained their culture, or Ukrainians who left before the Bolsheviks absorbed them, you would notice the difference.

Perhaps you are right.

But for now, I will continue to vent against Russians until they do the right thing regarding Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 09, 2015, 05:28:54 PM
Perhaps you are right.

But for now, I will continue to vent against Russians until they do the right thing regarding Ukraine.

 +1  :clapping:

 I think it's the herd instinct, apart they don't get so belligerent and can be sociable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 11, 2015, 01:21:24 AM
Gazprom complains that Ukraine buys four times less of Russian gas


Alexei Miller, the head of the Russian company Gazprom, told about a four times less volume of purchases of Russian gas by Ukraine, than usually. He explained it by the budget deficit of Ukrainian Naftogaz, reports Joinfo.ua citing Russian media.

“Thus, at present pre-paid volume of gas, even at such a low level of selection, it will be sufficient only for four days,” – said Miller.

According to the head of the Russian gas monopoly, Ukraine simultaneously reduced gas purchases from European suppliers. Today Kyiv gets 10 million cubic meters of gas per day from Russia.

http://joinfo.com/business/1010995_gazprom-complains-that-ukraine-buys-four-times-less-of-russian-gas.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Nightwish on November 11, 2015, 01:50:36 PM
I read your posts to my FSUM.  His response was "Don't put noodles on my ears.  This is for foreign consumption.  These are countries where no one cares if you beat your wife, where the idea of being a man is to reek of tobacco and alcohol.  This is all for the consumption of foreigners.  No one there thinks like this.  It is mostly women telling foreign men what the women think men want to hear."

I'm sorry but.....................

Asking a FSUM this is like asking a fish if the water is wet..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2015, 02:01:47 PM
I disagree.  My better half doesn't drink.  He doesn't smoke.  He is a vegetarian.  He was hunted in the USSR, as a member of the wrong class.  He was denied higher education on the basis that "his kind" should not be allowed to mingle with the working class.  He had extreme difficulty finding a job in a country in which unemployment, theoretically, did not exist.


He is the antithesis of a homo Sovieticus, and his/her like minded descendants.  Plus, he is an exceptionally observent person.  He had to be, to stay alive and out of jail. 


He just spent most of the summer in Ukraine and Russia, so his observations are relatively fresh.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Nightwish on November 11, 2015, 02:17:02 PM
I disagree.  My better half doesn't drink.  He doesn't smoke.  He is a vegetarian.  He was hunted in the USSR, as a member of the wrong class.  He was denied higher education on the basis that "his kind" should not be allowed to mingle with the working class.  He had extreme difficulty finding a job in a country in which unemployment, theoretically, did not exist.


He is the antithesis of a homo Sovieticus, and his/her like minded descendants.  Plus, he is an exceptionally observent person.  He had to be, to stay alive and out of jail. 


He just spent most of the summer in Ukraine and Russia, so his observations are relatively fresh.

and? He is still an FSUM right?

Sometimes discussing something with you reminds me of the popular saying: "can't see the forest for all the trees"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2015, 02:23:05 PM
and? He is still an FSUM right?


And as such, he is telling you that what you are being told is (and I quote) "Cr@p they tell foreigners, for foreign consumption."



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Nightwish on November 11, 2015, 02:28:39 PM
 :wallbash:


Do this  :cluebat: a few times and maybe the dime will fall down even for you..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2015, 02:34:33 PM
If you don't like the answer, because it does not conform to your own preconceived ideas, move on.  I understood what you posted.  I merely pointed out it does not conform to reality.


The attitude toward women in the Slavic republics of the FSU is very different from what it is in the West.  Yes, men are more macho.  But, if you are running into women who tell you that you have to be "the MAN", run away.  In the long term,  you won't be happy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Nightwish on November 11, 2015, 02:47:07 PM
If you don't like the answer, because it does not conform to your own preconceived ideas, move on.  I understood what you posted.  I merely pointed out it does not conform to reality.


The attitude toward women in the Slavic republics of the FSU is very different from what it is in the West.  Yes, men are more macho.  But, if you are running into women who tell you that you have to be "the MAN", run away.  In the long term,  you won't be happy.

Sweet holy mother of.....

It had NOTHING to do with being macho, it was much more about the chivalry, being the "white knight", being attentive and a man.

and you need to hit some more, the dime is still stuck somewhere......
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2015, 03:04:38 PM
And my point was, that idea, told to you by a RW, and swallowed by you in its entirety, is "a fairy tale for foreigners".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 11, 2015, 03:15:52 PM
No FSUW ever told me Fairy Tales.

But one did sing such to me.
Didn't understand a word, of course, but I liked it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Slumba on November 11, 2015, 04:38:15 PM
Surely with 200M people in the FSU, there is room for more than 1 anecdote, told by 1 person?  Are all FSU people so similar, that 1 anecdote can cover the truth of a situation, 100% of the time?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 11, 2015, 05:14:01 PM
It is about general societal attitudes. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 12, 2015, 09:56:59 AM
ehhh No!

She told me this in these word, and I quoted them since I thought they pointed out the state of mind/expectations in a very good way, but I have heard this several times from multiple sources, and not only from people from/within FSU.


The point is that you believe them all.


A similar thing told to foreigners is families' pasts.  Most lie about that - not in their occupations, but in who they were.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Nightwish on November 12, 2015, 01:35:15 PM

The point is that you believe them all.


A similar thing told to foreigners is families' pasts.  Most lie about that - not in their occupations, but in who they were.

 :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 12, 2015, 05:10:04 PM
Thanks for your scintillating riposte.


Is this an example of you being "the man"?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 12, 2015, 10:29:46 PM
I think Muzh is among the small  number of men on this forum who actually likes and respects women. 

Because a large number of men on this forum are not gay.....   

Seriously, this sounds like the voice of a testosteronephobe.   Most men here are married or in a continuing relationship with FSUW, who in general are not pushovers and would not tolerate such behavior. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 12, 2015, 10:53:39 PM
Gay men, in my experience, have far more respect for women than most of the posters here.


Many of the FSUW who have appeared here over the years have PM"d me, expressing the same sentiments I have posted.  Do you really want me to name names?  how would that be productive?



The balance of your post is a logical fallacy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Slumba on November 12, 2015, 11:19:18 PM
Gay men, in my experience, have far more respect for women than most of the posters here.


No, they are just better at hiding it... look at the ridiculous clothes they design, then have the gall to call "fashionable"!  They are misogynists of a magnitude far beyond what I could ever conjure out of myself ...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 12, 2015, 11:32:21 PM
The clothing they design is generally designed for what they find attractive - the figures of adolescent boys.  Most of it is really a concept, not intended to be worn by the average woman.  The fact that women, and, oddly, straight men, accept these notions of beauty if another matter.


No, I have generally found gay men to be great friends.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 13, 2015, 10:02:33 AM
Gay men, in my experience, have far more respect for women than most of the posters here.

....as well as most men in general if you see this issue as "black and white," which it isn't.    As with most issues, men's respect for women  can be distributed along  a continuum, possibly a normal distribution. 

I contend RWD men are near the median with gay men even farther away to the opposite side.  Out of curiosity, where to you place RWD men vs. all men and why? 


Quote
Many of the FSUW who have appeared here over the years have PM"d me, expressing the same sentiments I have posted.
   

Let us discuss the RWD rascals.  For sure there have been male posters who objectify women, seek  a hierarchical relationship with a RW wife, value women for little more than sex and traditional duties, etc.  Let us please dismiss them because I expect you to agree their number  is not large, maybe more than one SD.  Agree?  And most of those men receive criticism from men and women and do not stay long at RWD.

Let us discuss  the RW who complained how they were treated by RWD male members. 

One of the best measures of respect is equality, so if a RW posts something absurd, she should be corrected publicly, the same as if a man had made the post.  Agree?  Yes, some men were abusive, but not a large number of them.  Agree?

In my years at RWD, I endeavored to cultivate   RW members.    I respected the RW who made  strongly critical posts, and even befriended one of the most critical, DonnaPedro (met her, spoke on the phone, visited her family in Moscow, etc.)   Other men were the same.   Not a small number of newbies and unmarried men protested, partly  because the RW 1) were not behaving compliantly as envisioned in their fantasy or 2) the substance of the RW's criticism hit the nail and reminded the man of his past failed relationships.   The reaction of these men in Scenario No. 2  was the same as those men who dislike advice not coated in sugar (read the recent John A). 

Quote
Do you really want me to name names?  how would that be productive?

If you are talking about men and not RW, you have already started a list by naming Muzh.  Please complete the list as you say the number is small. 

Quote
The balance of your post is a logical fallacy.


I elaborate my logic.  Consider  the typical RW who marries a Western Man.  She  leaves her culture, friends and family, she moves to a strange land, and becomes totally dependent on a relative stranger.  I contend such women are strong, independent, and adventurous.  Men married to such women have developed some level of harmony, and such was not achieved unless they respected the RW.

Yet you say by deduction that a large number of  such men do not respect women.  How do you know?  You are not  privy to life of the married RWD members, so the same as me you used logic.  What is your logic, or is your conclusion driven by your emotions? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 13, 2015, 10:11:11 AM
I contend RWD men are near the median with gay men even farther away to the opposite side.  Out of curiosity, where to you place RWD men vs. all men and why? 


I contend you are incorrect.

   
Quote

Let us discuss the RWD rascals.  For sure there have been male posters who objectify women, seek  a hierarchical relationship with a RW wife, value women for little more than sex and traditional duties, etc.  Let us please dismiss them because I expect you to agree their number  is not large, maybe more than one SD.  Agree?  And most of those men receive criticism from men and women and do not stay long at RWD.

Let us discuss  the RW who complained how they were treated by RWD male members. 

One of the best measures of respect is equality, so if a RW posts something absurd, she should be corrected publicly, the same as if a man had made the post.  Agree?  Yes, some men were abusive, but not a large number of them.  Agree?

In my years at RWD, I endeavored to cultivate   RW members.    I respected the RW who made  strongly critical posts, and even befriended one of the most critical, DonnaPedro (met her, spoke on the phone, visited her family in Moscow, etc.)   Other men were the same.   Not a small number of newbies and unmarried men protested, partly  because the RW 1) were not behaving compliantly as envisioned in their fantasy or 2) the substance of the RW's criticism hit the nail and reminded the man of his past failed relationships.   The reaction of these men in Scenario No. 2  was the same as those men who dislike advice not coated in sugar (read the recent John A). 

If you are talking about men and not RW, you have already started a list by naming Muzh.  Please complete the list as you say the number is small. 
 

I elaborate my logic.  Consider  the typical RW who marries a Western Man.  She  leaves her culture, friends and family, she moves to a strange land, and becomes totally dependent on a relative stranger.  I contend such women are strong, independent, and adventurous.  Men married to such women have developed some level of harmony, and such was not achieved unless they respected the RW.

Yet you say by deduction that a large number of  such men do not respect women.  How do you know?  You are not  privy to life of the married RWD members, so the same as me you used logic.  What is your logic, or is your conclusion driven by your emotions?


I am not talking about cooking/cleaning, etc.  I am referring to general attitudes.  It is not only me who has noticed these attitudes.  I have often received PM's from RW who are shocked at what they read here at times.


How do I know?  Because I am not an idiot, and if it walks like a duck . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 13, 2015, 10:18:43 AM
I've noticed those who disagree with me a lot are women haters and those that get along with me well on the forum respect women.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 13, 2015, 10:29:29 AM

I contend you are incorrect.

First, is there a continuum?  If so, where do you place the average RWD man who actively participates in discussions?

Quote
I am not talking about cooking/cleaning, etc.

This statement is very revealing, and insulting.

Quote
I am referring to general attitudes.  It is not only me who has noticed these attitudes.  I have often received PM's from RW who are shocked at what they read here at times.

You are repeating yourself and not answering the questions.


Quote
How do I know?  Because I am not an idiot, and if it walks like a duck . . .

Is this  typical of the substance you present in court before a judge?   It lacks analysis or evidence, making it nothing more than your perception based on your emotions influenced by your  life history.   


You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please do not declare  it factual.   The facts are the use of terms such as "cooking/cleaning."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 13, 2015, 10:39:41 AM
Quote
This statement is very revealing, and insulting.


Why?  I don't equate a man wanting a wife to cook and clean with misogyny, or even a lack of respect for women.  It wasn't what I was referring to in my original post. You jumped to that conclusion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 13, 2015, 10:50:51 AM
Many of the FSUW who have appeared here over the years have PM"d me, expressing the same sentiments I have posted.



We all can find people who agree with us too. I think most men here aren't sex tourists, genuinely want to find a woman for life and take care of her. Sure some have different beliefs but there are women who embrace the same beliefs to which There will be mutual respect for each other. There have been times men vigorously disagreed with women on this forum and it became heated but it doesn't mean they hate women or will not respect them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 13, 2015, 11:12:24 AM

Why?  I don't equate a man wanting a wife to cook and clean with misogyny, or even a lack of respect for women.  It wasn't what I was referring to in my original post. You jumped to that conclusion.

Think about it.  I used the term harmony to describe a profound state of agreement, calmness, and fulfillment.  And you responded with household chores  as if that was all a woman gave to the relationship or the man expected.  A maid would certainly be far less expensive than wife.     

Rethink it and this time,  assume married couples at RWD are in a loving, continuing relationship (unless you know otherwise).  How was it achieved?  "Respect" has to be a mandatory factor. 

Your turn.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 13, 2015, 12:24:44 PM
I was responding to this, in your post -

Quote
For sure there have been male posters who objectify women, seek  a hierarchical relationship with a RW wife, value women for little more than sex and traditional duties, etc.  Let us please dismiss them because I expect you to agree their number  is not large, maybe more than one SD.  Agree?  And most of those men receive criticism from men and women and do not stay long at RWD.

Nothing in my posts was referring to this.  My posts were about a general attitude toward women. 

No, I disagree about respect.  There are plenty of marriages that are not built on mutual respect.

I don't know which marriages are happy, which are not, which are for convenience, for material prosperity (versus love/companionship), and really, all of that is irrelevant to my point.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 13, 2015, 01:50:15 PM
I was responding to this, in your post -   

Next time, please be more specific in what you respond to.  Even so, I do not understand the connection.  So let us please back out of this closed road. 


Quote
No, I disagree about respect.  There are plenty of marriages that are not built on mutual respect.


We seem to be operating under different definitions for "respect."   Please define "likes women" and "respects women"  as you used in your sentence, "Muzh is among the small  number of men on this forum who actually likes and respects women."

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 13, 2015, 11:04:46 PM
Athletics doping: Russia provisionally suspended by IAAF

Message could not be stronger - Coe

Russia's athletics federation has been provisionally suspended from international competition - including the Olympic Games   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:- for its alleged involvement in widespread doping.

The IAAF took action after the publication of an independent World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) report that alleged "state-sponsored doping".

Its council members voted 22-1 in favour of Russia being banned.

"This is a wake-up call for all of us," said IAAF president Lord Coe.

He told BBC Sport: "Our sport finds itself in a shameful situation.

"I am wholly focused on the changes that need to be made. I have openly conceded that we need to learn some very tough lessons.

"We need to look at ourselves, within our sport, and we will do that."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/34811896
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 14, 2015, 01:19:39 AM
Oh dear!

To go from hosting the last Winter Olympics to having your track & field team kicked out of the next one...

On the bright side huilo will now save some money from his federal budget by having to fund less athletes for the next Olympics.



Its council members voted 22-1 in favour of Russia being banned.


Hmmmm.....
I wonder which country's official casted the lone dissenting vote?
 :ROFL: :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 15, 2015, 01:38:12 AM
French police arrest five Russians suspected of planning an attack

French police arrested five Russians in the southern town of Béziers on Tuesday after explosives were allegedly found near a sports stadium.

The five, reported to be of Chechen origin, were being held in custody for questioning, on suspicion of planning an attack.

Prosecutor Yvon Calvet said certain “products” had been recovered during searches of the suspects’ homes.

The arrests came as France remained on its highest level of security alert following attacks by Islamic fundamentalists almost a fortnight ago.

Four people suspected of being linked to the three separate attacks in France two weeks ago were due before a judge on Tuesday. They have been questioned about giving “logistical support” to the gunman who attacked a Jewish supermarket. The court will decide whether they should be officially “mise en examen” (put under investigation), the equivalent of being charged.

For more... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/20/french-police-arrest-russians-chechen-origin-explosives-beziers?CMP=share_btn_fb

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 19, 2015, 05:28:35 PM
Iran’s Nuclear Stockpile Grows, Complicating Negotiations

..."WASHINGTON — With only one month left before a deadline to complete a nuclear deal with Iran, international inspectors have reported that Tehran’s stockpile of nuclear fuel increased about 20 percent over the last 18 months of negotiations, partially undercutting the Obama administration’s contention that the Iranian program had been “frozen” during that period.

But Western officials and experts cannot quite figure out why."...

 
Let me assist the 'Western officials and experts' with some helpful ideas to ease their conundrum...

1. They can start with...*Iran has no intention of honoring the agreement.* 

2. Because it's easier to reconvert nuclear facilities back to making bomb grade uranium after the inspections are over and the sanctions are fully lifted then it is to convert uranium. So appearing to comply with the small stuff while feigning a "Gee, how did that happen?" with the big stuff allows the weapons grade uranium production to proceed on schedule.

3. Obama and Kerry are complete feckless morons and Iran is thumbing their noses at them knowing there's no way that either of them will put a hold on the final deal even though they're already in non compliance of the interim accord.

Take your pick boys because it doesn't really matter. Iran will have their bombs regardless.

Seriously...Are the people we've put into the positions of leading our countries really this fcuking stupid?...

..."There is little doubt that in the absence of the interim accord, called the “Joint Plan of Action,” Iran would have made even greater strides. But the numbers published Friday by the atomic energy agency show that Iran has continued to enrich uranium aggressively, even though it knew that it was not meeting its goals of converting its stockpile into reactor rods."...

www.nytimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/02/world/middleeast/irans-nuclear-stockpile-grows-complicating-negotiations.html?_r=0)


Brass









 




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on November 21, 2015, 12:21:36 AM
It is an interesting observation that not only fsuw make. Needless to say-- some will always want to attempt comparison to other nationalities--and to cross into another threads area on North Americans( AnotherKiwi & the inadequate -FP) -- Canadians are different  to USAians in this respect.

  Before I get more comments from the peanut gallery-- half my family are American and over the years I have spent a lot of time in the US ,have done and do business,have had many live with me etc etc so-- I understand the comment. The very same comment was also made to me by my nieces Italian husband in the period when he was first visiting the US .
  Even yesterday--only a short time after I posted the comment above- I was at lunch with  2 Ukrainians who do interpreting work. Both are well educated and qualified- are sporting champions of Ukraine in quite diverse areas and have spent substantial  time in the US and in one case has a mother who is now a US citizen.
  In their work they meet many Americans ( amongst others)- so they have a solid base to look at and assess nationalities and their differences-- and in particular-how they come across in the fsu.
What was funny yesterday is that I had just posted my comment and a few hours later-there was the topic being raised by others-so it got my attention to talk with them about it-- and many other aspects of relevance to guys looking.
ML has had a go at explaining more and I found myself trying to explain to my friends yesterday.Any way you cut it--it is not us here who has to understand it-- but for guys looking-- it is something to think about.
My advice-- take a genuine interest in everyone you meet. For me- I love meeting people in general-hearing about their lives and all that goes with it and learning about them and their country.

Jay you are a legend in your own mind. Every post you have made in this thread as well as most any post you have ever made at RWD is evidence to that fact. You truly believe you are correct and the whole world is wrong. You are not only narcissistic, you're wrong. If it makes you feel better to believe that Americans are fake, by all means have at it. Takes one to know one I suppose. Yes there are a lot of flakey Americans but, if you knew anything about people you would know people are people the world over. You are just to stupid to know the difference. Apparently you must pigeon hole others you raise your own self esteem. You are not only moronic in your thought processes, you are one stupid individual.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 21, 2015, 02:06:57 AM
Jay you are a legend in your own mind. Every post you have made in this thread as well as most any post you have ever made at RWD is evidence to that fact. You truly believe you are correct and the whole world is wrong. You are not only narcissistic, you're wrong. If it makes you feel better to believe that Americans are fake, by all means have at it. Takes one to know one I suppose. Yes there are a lot of flakey Americans but, if you knew anything about people you would know people are people the world over. You are just to stupid to know the difference. Apparently you must pigeon hole others you raise your own self esteem. You are not only moronic in your thought processes, you are one stupid individual.



Needless to say your comprehension skills are devoid of commonsense ability to read the words.How stupid are you really--I am stating MY observation( & others) --an opinion-- and you want to dispute MY opinion  ie what my opinion is.
What you showed above in your attempts to insult-- is diametrically opposed to your comment above--it is you who is too stupid know the difference.

To be noted again--you hand out your moronic insults-- and then mod replies in your totally deficient thought processes.

Your know it all comments only serve to illustrate what a pain you are/Why dont you read your post quoted again and see how illogical you are ! :)
You really are a piece of total crap with your persistent  attempt to insult others.( not just to me)

ps  Re Thread-apologies to others to see the pollution-but really-- what does anyone expect me to do? Ignore ? & keep ignoring the diversionary insults?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 24, 2015, 04:12:07 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-shoots-down-military-plane-syria-border-media-081805913.html

Current score:   NATO 1 --- Russkies 0

What are you going to do now botox midget?
 :ROFL:

Worst case scenario for huilo is those Syrian rebels sell that captured Russian pilot to ISIL and the poor chap end up getting beheaded on youtube.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on November 24, 2015, 04:43:29 AM
The pilot already looks pretty dead in the video I have seen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 24, 2015, 06:48:58 AM
If the Russian jet were 30 miles inside Turkey border, why did it crash inside Syria, albeit close to the border?  Fighter jets are not good gliders.  The Russian jet may have been inside the Turkey border yet was making its way back to Syria.   If so, why attack it?

Conflicting news (imagine that happening, especially when Russia is involved).  Russia says the jet was brought down by ground fire.  Turkey says two of its F-16s hit it with missiles.  The Russian version would allow this to be swept under the rug.  Now this must be reconciled.

Kremlin says this is a "very serious incident."  I label that as an understatement because Russia usually responds.

This incident was likely because:

1.  Turkey wants Assad to be overthrown and is supporting some of the opposition forces.

2.  Russia is supporting Assad and is bombing repeatedly these opposition forces.

3.  Unlike the NATO jets, Russian jets did not have permission to enter Turkish airspace.

4.  Russian military aircraft have a history of ignoring NATO airspace and in fact has made multiple incursions into Turkish airspace only to be warned,  This time Turkey did more than warn.

Much more to come.  It would be good if the politicians good negotiate  some temporary agreement for a ceasefire  between Assad and the NATO-backed opposition groups.  This would enable coalition forces AND Russia to focus instead on ISIS.

As someone said today, this is how World War I got started.  One difference, Russia has no allies. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on November 24, 2015, 09:52:21 AM
And the rescue helicopter was shot down by rebels with a US TOW missile.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TD1KQ20151124 (http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TD1KQ20151124)


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 24, 2015, 09:57:12 AM
And the rescue helicopter was shot down by rebels with a US TOW missile.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TD1KQ20151124 (http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0TD1KQ20151124)

No news on the Russian TV stations about the helicpoter shoot down or the jets.  Amazing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on November 24, 2015, 12:39:02 PM
If the Russian jet were 30 miles inside Turkey border, why did it crash inside Syria  .. why attack it?

 
Not only that, but the aircraft hardly hit the ground when Obama was up there defending Turkey.

Quote
Obama: Turkey has the right to defend itself and its airspace
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/politics/obama-francois-hollande-white-house-meeting/index.html


Turkey wasn't 'under attack'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 24, 2015, 02:35:25 PM
Well, I've posted this before...The only means of stopping Russia's military aggression is a showdown.

We've now seen the results of what can happen when Russia continues to ignore warnings and overfly NATO countries.

I'm surprised it took this long. I really thought we'd have seen a similar incident over Europe or the Arctic by now.

Now that the ice has been broken, so to speak, more of these incidents might occur. My guess would be in light of having one of their jets being shot down the Russians will 'step it up' to show 'who's still boss'.

Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria border, Putin warns of 'serious consequences'

..."We will never tolerate such crimes like the one committed today," Putin said, as Russian and Turkish shares fell on fears of an escalation between the former Cold War enemies."...

..."U.S. President Barack Obama and French President Francois Hollande, meeting in Washington, urged against an escalation, while NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the military alliance stood in solidarity with Turkey."...

Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-idUSKBN0TD0IR20151124#FZfMGYEpFJIKtHUe.99

Well Jens NATO's done jack sh*t in response to Russian aggression so far. I'm sure Erdogan's comforted by your words of encouragement. :rolleyes:

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 24, 2015, 02:58:47 PM
Maybe huilo will retaliate economically by banning Russian from holidaying in Turkey and tell his people to pack some candles and go to Crimea instead...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anathema on November 24, 2015, 03:18:14 PM
Well, I've posted this before...The only means of stopping Russia's military aggression is a showdown.

We've now seen the results of what can happen when Russia continues to ignore warnings and overfly NATO countries.

I'm surprised it took this long. I really thought we'd have seen a similar incident over Europe or the Arctic by now.

Now that the ice has been broken, so to speak, more of these incidents might occur. My guess would be in light of having one of their jets being shot down the Russians will 'step it up' to show 'who's still boss'.

Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria border, Putin warns of 'serious consequences'

..."We will never tolerate such crimes like the one committed today," Putin said, as Russian and Turkish shares fell on fears of an escalation between the former Cold War enemies."...

..."U.S. President Barack Obama and French President Francois Hollande, meeting in Washington, urged against an escalation, while NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the military alliance stood in solidarity with Turkey."...

Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-idUSKBN0TD0IR20151124#FZfMGYEpFJIKtHUe.99

Well Jens NATO's done jack sh*t in response to Russian aggression so far. I'm sure Erdogan's comforted by your words of encouragement. :rolleyes:

Brass

I doubt it.  Russia has way too much on their plate right now to dance with Turkey.  Plus, Turkey would pull their NATO card.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 24, 2015, 03:32:21 PM
I doubt it.  Russia has way too much on their plate right now to dance with Turkey.  Plus, Turkey would pull their NATO card.

We're going to find out soon enough. Sh*t like this is bad for Putin's bad boy image.

The Russian population will be looking to Putin for pay back and it's going to have to come across as something like this...

"Putin single handedly destroys entire Turkish Air Force for shooting down one SU-24"

... or words to that effect.

It's the downside to telling your citizens "I am invincible" when you're a dictator.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anathema on November 24, 2015, 04:04:50 PM
Yeah, it'll be "interesting".  Hell, I hope I'm wrong.  FTurkey.  Let them fight each other to exhaustion.  I'll root for both sides.

I'm not sure how to embed youtube videos here (or if we even can) but here's a video showing the Turks shooting the Russians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5g60o_O08U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5g60o_O08U)

ETA: Guess it automatically embeds them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on November 24, 2015, 04:11:03 PM
While I am not supportive of Russia in there actions. War is ugly and only rarely does it solve problems.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 24, 2015, 08:39:32 PM
Russia is going to pizz of Turkey more and they'll close off Russian shipping to the Black Sea. They're already at issues because of the treatment of the Crimean Tartars.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on November 24, 2015, 09:25:11 PM

I'm not sure how to embed youtube videos here (or if we even can) but here's a video showing the Turks shooting the Russians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5g60o_O08U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5g60o_O08U)

ETA: Guess it automatically embeds them.

That reminds me of the cliché: shooting fish in a barrel.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 24, 2015, 09:36:54 PM
War is ugly and only rarely does it solve problems.



When diplomatic means are exhausted when solving disputes, war is the last means. There are usually more losers than winners after war but the winners won't be the ones complaining.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 24, 2015, 10:32:13 PM
The South Stream gas line thru Turkey from Russia seems to be a dead issue now. Turkey is miffed at Russia..  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 24, 2015, 10:54:43 PM
Turkey can close the Bosporus to Russian ships.

You'll need to use a translator to read, but it's interesting.

http://nuina.net/turcyja-mozhet-zakryt-bosfor-dlja-korablej-rossyy/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 25, 2015, 08:49:42 PM
Russia is going to pizz of Turkey more and they'll close off Russian shipping to the Black Sea. They're already at issues because of the treatment of the Crimean Tartars.


For all we know the event was somewhat orchestrated in order to give the respective sides a reason to meet and compromise OR allow one side to save face. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on November 26, 2015, 01:35:26 AM
The Russian pilot was given 10 warnings before Turkish prime minster Davutoglu gave the clearance to fire. This incident came after repeated protests by the Turks over a periods of months. They have taken the diplomatic route via foreign ministries, and it was discussed during president Erdoğan's visit to Moscow in October. Moscow was on notice, but deliberately chose to shrug it off.

Russian pilots are not allowed to make the same sort of independent decisions and respond to events as are most Western counterparts. I'm guessing that the pilot and commander were sacrificed because first, the protocol to respond takes too long in Russia's outdated command and control military. They were also sacrificed because the Kremlin didn't believe that Turkey would pull the trigger.

However, Russia will use this to justify a build-up in Syria with the advanced anti aircraft technology that they have already been installing. Now they can do it in the open. Convenient.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 26, 2015, 05:25:38 AM
It sure sucks to be in Crimea now.  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


Enterprises stopped, electric transport out of service, fuel and candles in short supply: Crimea blackout. PHOTOS


Russia-occupied Crimea has been left without power. Electricity is on for several hours daily. Street lights and electric transport is out of service in cities. Internet is operating extremely poorly.

This is reported by blogger Ilya Varlamov in his Livejournal account, Censor.NET informs.

 People barely believe in statements by the Ukrainian power companies that electricity will be on in a few days. Citizens are squirreling food supplies, candles, power units, and fuel.

 Internet is on in Simferopol's downtown only.

 Due to the blackout, foods have started to spoil in stores. The problem is that food supplies have been disrupted, for nothing is imported from the mainland Ukraine, and Russia is not able to reach Crimea through Kerch due to bad weather. Earlier, there were some hopes for Turkey, but yesterday all the contacts with them were halted.

 The largest plants of the peninsula have stopped operating. It will definitely cause a shortage in the budget.

http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/362399/enterprises_stopped_electric_transport_out_of_service_fuel_and_candles_in_short_supply_crimea_blackout
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 27, 2015, 09:51:19 AM
And the Obama/Kerry final insult to the American people and by extension the civilized world...

Iran Nuclear Deal Is Not ‘Legally Binding,’ Obama Administration Admits

..."The nuclear deal agreed upon in July by the P5+1 world powers (US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China) and the Islamic Republic of Iran has no “legally binding” basis. The deal, paraded by President Obama as a surefire measure to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, is held together simply as a “political commitment” by the parties to the accord, the State Department admitted in a recent letter."...

www.breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/11/25/iran-nuclear-deal-not-legally-binding-obama-administration-admits/)

Iran Nuclear Deal Isn't A Bad Deal After All; It's No Deal

..."Nuclear Charade: The Obama administration admits to Congress that its nuclear pact with Iran has not been signed by the Iranian regime and has no legal force. Obama's "tough diplomacy" is puff diplomacy."...

news.investors.com (http://Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/112515-782651-iran-nuclear-deal-is-not-signed-or-binding.htm#ixzz3si0DHob9)

Iran didn't sign the nuclear deal - and it isn't legally binding

(http://www.israelnationalnews.com/static/Resizer.ashx/news/468/282/615556.jpg)

..."The Iranian regime did not sign the nuclear deal negotiated earlier this year, and the deal itself is not legally binding - that's according to an astonishing letter sent by the US State Department to Congressmen Mike Pompeo (R., Kan.) last week."...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/203986#.VliAfpuFPMw

Nuclear Deal: Iran Will Not Comply Until Commitments Are Met, Says Foreign Minister

(http://www.iranreview.org/file/cms/files/2359714-3418815(4).jpg)

..."Iranian Foreign Minister Seyyed Abbas Araqchi said Thursday that before Iran complies with the nuclear deal, nuclear inspectors must close their investigation into possible military dimensions of its nuclear program."...

http://www.hngn.com/articles/154352/20151126/nuclear-deal-iran-will-comply-until-commitments-met-foreign-minister.htm

Just look at the grins on the faces of these two terrorist leaders...You betcha, boys, your nuclear breakout is now guaranteed.

Bet you're thinking "Too bad Obama doesn't have another term in office...we'd rule the world with one or two more of these scam "historic" agreements like the one we just pulled here".  ;)

Brass

 

 


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 27, 2015, 09:54:00 PM
And the Obama/Kerry final insult to the American people and by extension the civilized world...

Iran Nuclear Deal Is Not ‘Legally Binding,’ Obama Administration Admits

..."The nuclear deal agreed upon in July by the P5+1 world powers (US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China) and the Islamic Republic of Iran has no “legally binding” basis. The deal, paraded by President Obama as a surefire measure to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, is held together simply as a “political commitment” by the parties to the accord, the State Department admitted in a recent letter."...

www.breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/11/25/iran-nuclear-deal-not-legally-binding-obama-administration-admits/)

Iran Nuclear Deal Isn't A Bad Deal After All; It's No Deal

..."Nuclear Charade: The Obama administration admits to Congress that its nuclear pact with Iran has not been signed by the Iranian regime and has no legal force. Obama's "tough diplomacy" is puff diplomacy."...

news.investors.com (http://Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/112515-782651-iran-nuclear-deal-is-not-signed-or-binding.htm#ixzz3si0DHob9)

Iran didn't sign the nuclear deal - and it isn't legally binding

(http://www.israelnationalnews.com/static/Resizer.ashx/news/468/282/615556.jpg)

..."The Iranian regime did not sign the nuclear deal negotiated earlier this year, and the deal itself is not legally binding - that's according to an astonishing letter sent by the US State Department to Congressmen Mike Pompeo (R., Kan.) last week."...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/203986#.VliAfpuFPMw (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/203986#.VliAfpuFPMw)

Nuclear Deal: Iran Will Not Comply Until Commitments Are Met, Says Foreign Minister

(http://www.iranreview.org/file/cms/files/2359714-3418815(4).jpg)

..."Iranian Foreign Minister Seyyed Abbas Araqchi said Thursday that before Iran complies with the nuclear deal, nuclear inspectors must close their investigation into possible military dimensions of its nuclear program."...

http://www.hngn.com/articles/154352/20151126/nuclear-deal-iran-will-comply-until-commitments-met-foreign-minister.htm (http://www.hngn.com/articles/154352/20151126/nuclear-deal-iran-will-comply-until-commitments-met-foreign-minister.htm)

Just look at the grins on the faces of these two terrorist leaders...You betcha, boys, your nuclear breakout is now guaranteed.

Bet you're thinking "Too bad Obama doesn't have another term in office...we'd rule the world with one or two more of these scam "historic" agreements like the one we just pulled here".  ;)

Brass
Everything is still fine. 
 :D


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on November 28, 2015, 11:57:59 AM
Oh no! Oh no!
Not the nuclear deal thread again ::)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2015, 06:14:28 AM
Most Russians believe country in economic crisis – poll
Quote
The proportion of Russians talking of an economic crisis in their country has risen to 72% from 68% in August, according to the Public Opinion foundation.

Fifteen per cent said there is no crisis in Russia (17% in August), while 12% of respondents could not answer, according to the findings of a poll conducted among 1,500 respondents in 104 towns in 53 Russian regions on November 21-22.

Of those talking of the crisis, 41% see it manifested in the increase in prices and inflation; 22% in falling living standards, low wages and pensions; and 16%, in unemployment and job cuts.

When describing their financial situation, 38% Russians said they have enough money for clothes but not for major household appliances; 27% have money for food but not for clothes.

The share of people with not enough money for food is 14% now and was 9% in August.

Yet another 17% of Russians have money for household appliances, but not enough to buy a car. Those can afford to buy a car account for 5%.

Overall, two-thirds of respondents (61%) have rated their financial situation as average (65% in August) and about one-third (31%) as bad (24% in August). That their finances are good was claimed by 7% of respondents (9% in August).

According to 34% of Russians, next year their financial situation will remain practically unchanged. Twelve per cent believe things will improve, 30% are pessimistic, and 23% could not make any prediction.

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/307514.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 29, 2015, 08:56:01 AM
Everything is still fine. 
 :D

For those that place their allegiance and declare their homage to the terrorist cause I'm sure it is.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 29, 2015, 03:24:48 PM

Moldova Arrests 13 Accused of Plotting to Establish Russian Separatist Republic

By Tess Owen

November 26, 2015 | 11:08 am

Quote


A plot to attack Moldova's capital and establish a Russian separatist republic similar to the ones in Eastern Ukraine was reportedly foiled on Thursday when Moldovan police detained 13 suspected members of a paramilitary group.

Moldova's General Police Inspectorate said the group wanted to attack state buildings in the capital Chisinau and seize control of Balti, a city approximately 120 kilometers due north that has a majority Russian population. The group allegedly planned to storm the prison in Balti and release sympathetic prisoners that they felt could be recruited for further attacks on Balti state officials and private companies.

Police said the suspected ringleader of the group is from Eastern Ukraine, the Associated Press reported.

Related: Romania Is Starting to Freak Out About Russian Designs on Transnistria

When the conflict in Ukraine began in 2014, some political analysts feared the unrest would spill over the border into Moldova, one of the poorest countries in Europe. A sliver of land alongside its Ukrainian border known as Transnistria or Trans-Dniester remains a pro-Russian separatist region, which has tentatively maintained a ceasefire with Moldova's capital since 1992.

Russian President Vladimir Putin wants Moldova to join the Moscow-dominated Eurasian economic union he is planning, which he sees as having the potential to rival the strength of the European Union. When Moldova teetered toward reaching an association agreement with the European Union two years ago, Russia retaliated by banning the import of Moldovan wine, one of the country's major exports.
  For more of the story..

http://news.vice.com/article/moldova-arrests-13-accused-of-plotting-to-establish-russian-separatist-republic
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 29, 2015, 04:19:18 PM
I read a few policy papers.  This one caught my eye.  It states things rather simply.

http://bruegel.org/2015/10/the-systemic-roots-of-russias-recession/

Of particular interest were the comments following the link.  I had some conversations recently with people that were former investors in Russia.  They think that the business climate is hostage to the ongoing rule that whoever has the best political connections will override any honest business dealings.  Especially with Americans.

As a side note, those who read my recent trip report from Kazakhstan will recall that the Kazakhs instituted visa free travel for Americans for the first 15 days of their visit.  The reason that they did this is because of the huge amount of investment that America did (and continues to do) in Kazakhstan in recent history.  Russia currently has no such friendly investors.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 29, 2015, 05:59:30 PM
For those that place their allegiance and declare their homage to the terrorist cause I'm sure it is.

Brass


You are incorrect, things are not that good for terrorists, at least the ones in the Middle East....But in terms of the Iran/Major powers nuke deal, things are fine, despite your around the clock hand-wringing. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 30, 2015, 12:58:29 AM
I read a few policy papers.  This one caught my eye.  It states things rather simply.

http://bruegel.org/2015/10/the-systemic-roots-of-russias-recession/

Of particular interest were the comments following the link.  I had some conversations recently with people that were former investors in Russia.  They think that the business climate is hostage to the ongoing rule that whoever has the best political connections will override any honest business dealings.  Especially with Americans.

As a side note, those who read my recent trip report from Kazakhstan will recall that the Kazakhs instituted visa free travel for Americans for the first 15 days of their visit.  The reason that they did this is because of the huge amount of investment that America did (and continues to do) in Kazakhstan in recent history.  Russia currently has no such friendly investors.

As interesting as the article is in itself-the comments section is more so.


danram • a month ago
Nobody in their right mind would invest in Russia right now. It would be no less than insane to invest any money into a country where, at the drop of a hat, someone who has better political connections and deeper pockets than you do can use the organs of the state to steal your investment,

Today's Russia is a fetid cesspool of lies, oppression, and corruption. It is a "mafia state" in every sense of the word, held together by the "don" at the top, Vladimir Putin. Truth and justice hold no meaning in Russia.

Far from "engaging with Russia" as many predictably weak-kneed western politicians want to do, the west should put the screws to this odious regime in every way possible so as to more speedily bring about its demise.
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bandarlogtorpedo  danram • 2 days ago
You could insert Obama's America into your analysis and come up roses, by another name.
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califguy  danram • 21 days ago
Totally isolate Russia for six months and it will disintegrate into many smaller regional entities along religious, political, ethnic and geographic fault lines.

The West should recognize those entities as independent and sovereign states and offer them economic and political support.

There is a distinct possibility that some of the new entities may become failed states and become a hotbed for terrorism, but by large, most of them will become peaceful states and nations.

The net result will be that the world would be a better and safer place without "Mother Russia".
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Anjaan Aadmi  califguy • 15 days ago
Only if wish had the wings to fly ... !! ... Russia is a nuclear, space and energy super power, which has seen many downs in its history ... Russia is here to stay, whether you like it or not ... !!
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Arbuthnaught • a month ago
This article several times mentions "Russia's excellent human capital." Several other articles have mentioned an accelerating brain drain. The bad economic climate plus the mafia state in Russia is a perfect storm for a brain drain. Unless things turn around fast, " those with get up and go are going to get up and go," in ever increasing numbers. Putin is ideologically hostile to the policy solutions necessary to fix any of the major problems facing Russia.
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bandarlogtorpedo • 2 days ago
"The Russian economy grew rapidly between 2000 and 2007, but growth decelerated after the 2008-09 global financial crisis." I wonder if it pisses Putin off that the POTUS was a street soldier in the fight for "affordable housing" that led inexorably to the international default on mortgage derivatives that tanked the international economy? He has a righteous grudge.
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nwberger • 9 days ago
Russia has been a shit country for centuries. Even recently when they've had a choice to get rational government and politics they decided to idolize yet another tyrant. They think that the tyrant will tyrannize others for the glory of Russia. Here's an eye opener: there has never been true Russian glory. Also, the Russians themselves are the ones who finally get tyrannized as in the Tsars, Lenin, Stalin and coming up, barechested Vlad. Squashing Georgia and Crimea isn't power. Losing 25 million people in WW2 was not a great victory. Insulting Obama, though justified, isn't power nor even glory. The reason these actions are applauded in Russia is because Russia is one big garbage pit and even a bully-like victory lifts their sorry souls. If Russia was to be a 'good investment' it'd be the first time in its history. A bad bet to make.
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JTR • 24 days ago
This is not a helpful article at all. It ignores the real problems that underlie all of the data and issues discussed--the fact that Russia is a Kleptocracy. You can't talk about "the private section" in any meaningful way in Russia when it consists almost entirely of Putin, his circle and their minions. Saying that half of Gazprom's shares are held by the state makes it seem like the other half are held by normal investors. Not so. To say that what happened to Shell was "downsizing of shares" is a euphemism so grotesque it would make Oceania's Ministry of Truth blush with shame. If Breugel is not going to offer truthful analysis out of fear of Russia's reaction to what you publish, it would best to remain silent.
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ttaerum • a month ago
Ah yes... the author an advisor in "Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Egypt, Georgia, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Poland, Romania, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Syria, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan and Yemen"... one struggles to imagine what that actually means. Russia has a resource based economy (oil and rare earth) - as illustrated by the dip in 2009 and the present worldwide economic slowdown. We see no figures on investment, nor its historical relationship to world wide economic growth (which is a central argument in the article). What is the point?
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James Hayward • a month ago
It is a "mafia state" in every sense of the word, held together by the
"don" at the top, Vladimir Putin. Truth and justice hold no meaning in
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 30, 2015, 01:18:59 AM
JayH,

Nice summary.  Putin is about to put it dick in the squeezer.  Of course our feclus president doesn't have the brains to take advantage of it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 30, 2015, 02:42:37 AM
JayH,

.  Putin is about to put it dick in the squeezer. 

Funny that you just wrote that-see next story linked.
Placing pressure on the Russian system was never a short term exercise to make Russians see reality --and now the results will be shown soon.

I have always  had it in my mind that Putin's craziness in pumping crazy nationalism with his invasion of Ukraine was a diversionary strategy that drew attention away from the financial incompetence( and the kleptocracy) over a long period of time.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 30, 2015, 02:48:10 AM
$30 Oil?

As predicted here  some time ago- it is now imminent--with all the pressures and the economic crisis it will create in Russia.

Russia has learned to live with oil near $40 and only a decline to $30 a barrel can provoke another deterioration, which isn’t the most likely scenario, Deputy Finance Minister Maxim Oreshkin said Nov. 25. The central bank estimates that in a stress-case scenario, with crude below $40 in 2016-2018, the economy will contract 5 percent or more next year and price growth may be at 7 percent to 9 percent. That would also raise risks to inflation and financial stability, according to the Bank of Russia.
GDP will contract 3.9 percent to 4.4 percent this year and may shrink as much as 1 percent next year if oil stays at $50 a barrel, the central bank forecasts.
“The second leg down in oil prices and likely further capital outflows will add more pressures to Russia’s ailing economy,” said Nerijus Maciulis, chief economist at Swedbank AB in Vilnius, Lithuania. “The next wound will open up on banks’ balance sheets -- non-performing loans are set to rise much further and will further drain public funds.”


The $30 Oil Cliff Threatening Russia's Economy


For Russia, $30 is the number to watch.
Crude prices at that level will push the economy to depths that would threaten the nation’s financial system, according to 63 percent of respondents in a Bloomberg survey. Lower prices for the fuel are next year’s biggest risk for Russia, which is unprepared to ride out another shock on the oil market, most economists said. Other dangers for 2016 include geopolitics, strains in the banking industry and the ruble, according to the poll of 27 analysts.
“If oil prices fall lower and stay at that low level for longer, risks of fiscal and financial destabilization increase significantly,” Sergey Narkevich, an analyst at PAO Promsvyazbank in Moscow, said by e-mail.
Russia, which has adjusted to the worst commodities slump in a generation with spending cutbacks and a weaker ruble, may be hard-pressed for policy answers if the slump in oil prices deepens after a drop of 37 percent in the past year. While Brent, the European benchmark, is trading around $45 a barrel, a warmer-than-average winter could weaken heating-fuel demand enough to trigger a decline in the price of crude to $20, analysts at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said in a note Nov. 18.
OPEC Persistence
Oil has dropped as U.S. inventories climbed to near a record and the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries produced above its quota. OPEC, which meets to discuss policy Dec. 4 in Vienna, is set to stick with its strategy of defending market share by maintaining output and driving down higher-cost production elsewhere, according to all 30 analysts and traders in a separate Bloomberg survey.




http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-29/the-30-oil-cliff-that-economists-see-threatening-russia-in-2016
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 30, 2015, 03:01:34 AM
Russia's economic decline this year is often attributed to low oil prices. Yet Russia has performed considerably worse than most of its oil-exporting peers, so there must be another reason.


Putin Doesn't Mind Oil's Fall


Oil-exporting countries that are doing better than Russia fall into three groups. The first includes highly diversified economies such as Malaysia or Canada. Russia could have worked harder on diversification while oil was expensive, but it missed the chance. Another group includes countries such as Norway, United Arab Emirates and Qatar, with huge foreign reserves and negative net debt positions -- meaning they are owed a lot of money. Russia had a chance to do that, too, but only saved up enough to last a couple of years at the current oil price -- which explains why it would rather let the ruble devalue indefinitely than use the reserves to defend the currency. Members of the third group -- Bolivia, Azerbaijan and some others -- have tried to soften the blow while making their financial situation more precarious and hoping for a price recovery. Russia could have done that, too, but it wouldn't have been prudent given Putin's sense that he was defending his country against a hostile West.

Some oil exporters -- Venezuela and Nigeria, for example -- are inept when it comes to economic policy. That isn't the case with Russia: It just has a leader who doesn't prioritize the economy or care too much about living standards as long as the population is enthusiastic about his quest for a bigger geopolitical role. Russia is unique among oil exporters as a nation that is being milked for the sake of one man's grand vision. If oil prices go up, the vision will be more lavishly funded


http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-11-26/putin-doesn-t-mind-oil-s-fall
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 30, 2015, 06:48:04 AM
$30 Oil?

As predicted here  some time ago- it is now imminent--with all the pressures and the economic crisis it will create in Russia.

 


On this website not only was 30 dollar oil wrongfully predicted, but also 20 dollar oil was also wrongfully predicted.  To this point, 40 dollar oil is where it has leveled off at, and 30 dollar oil would require another 25% drop.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 30, 2015, 06:50:34 AM
   Of course our feclus president doesn't have the brains to take advantage of it.
Always humorous when this happens....




What would be suggested that Obama do to take advantage?


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on November 30, 2015, 07:16:30 AM
The $40/bbl price is curtailing investments in the US in fracking.  The same destimulus is happening in OPEC countries and will reduce their reduction. 

OPEC countries had no large fracking programs, yet  production from many OPEC's existing oil wells decline over time, with the gushers eventually becoming stripper wells.   The wells  must be replaced with new investments.  Likewise, infrastructure must be maintained. 

Reduced oil revenue will slow both, so production from  OPEC will decline over time.  This constrains how low prices will drop, and encourages price increases.  When?  Not soon, but eventually. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 30, 2015, 08:12:45 AM
You are incorrect, things are not that good for terrorists, at least the ones in the Middle East

I was referring to you.

....But in terms of the Iran/Major powers nuke deal, things are fine, despite your around the clock hand-wringing. 

Iran threatens to cancel nuclear deal if UN probe isn't closed

..."Senior Iranian official says his country will cancel deal if IAEA probe into past nuclear activities isn't dropped."...

..."Iran on Sunday threatened to cancel the nuclear deal with world powers unless a probe into allegations of its past weapons research is closed, AFP reported."...

..."The UN watchdog recently released a report which determined that Iran had violated the terms of its nuclear deal with the West by increasing its stockpile of low-enriched uranium in the past three months by 460.2 kilograms."...

..."Earlier this month it was also revealed that Iran had stopped dismantling its centrifuges at the Natanz and Fordow uranium enrichment plants, breaching the nuclear deal that calls for the dismantling."...

..."Despite revelations that his country is breaching the deal, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani recently threatened to abandon the accord all together, if the United States imposes any new sanctions unrelated to Tehran's nuclear program."...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/204150#.VlxkrZuFPMw

As I've already posted...For those that place their allegiance and declare their homage to the terrorist cause I'm sure it is "still fine".

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 30, 2015, 08:18:18 AM
I was referring to you.




No durrrr!  :rolleyes:




Sorry, but your 'ideas' aren't panning out...thankfully.  The deal is done, and bumps along the way are expected.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 30, 2015, 08:26:13 AM
Sorry, but your 'ideas' aren't panning out...thankfully.  The deal is done, and bumps along the way are expected.

On the contrary. It's "panning out" exactly as I predicted.

1. They can start with...*Iran has no intention of honoring the agreement.*

2. Because it's easier to reconvert nuclear facilities back to making bomb grade uranium after the inspections are over and the sanctions are fully lifted then it is to convert uranium. So appearing to comply with the small stuff while feigning a "Gee, how did that happen?" with the big stuff allows the weapons grade uranium production to proceed on schedule.

3. Obama and Kerry are complete feckless morons and Iran is thumbing their noses at them knowing there's no way that either of them will put a hold on the final deal even though they're already in non compliance of the interim accord.

Take your pick boys because it doesn't really matter. Iran will have their bombs regardless.

Seriously...Are the people we've put into the positions of leading our countries really this fcuking stupid?...

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 30, 2015, 09:29:52 AM
On the contrary. It's "panning out" exactly as I predicted.

Brass

When Iran has the nukes that you insist they will, then you can rightfully gloat about being 'right'.  That hasn't happened.   Meanwhile the deal is moving forward for now. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on November 30, 2015, 10:31:04 AM
When Iran has the nukes that you insist they will, then you can rightfully gloat about being 'right'.  That hasn't happened.   Meanwhile the deal is moving forward for now. 

Which in no way negates the fact that your terrorist leaders are already trying to alter the terms of the Obama deal and weasel their way out of the agreement altogether.

The links in my last three posts have clearly demonstrated that the deal is not moving forward.

..."The Iranian regime did not sign the nuclear deal negotiated earlier this year, and the deal itself is not legally binding - that's according to an astonishing letter sent by the US State Department to Congressmen Mike Pompeo (R., Kan.) last week."...

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 30, 2015, 11:10:11 AM
Which in no way negates the fact that your terrorist leaders are already trying to alter the terms of the Obama deal and weasel their way out of the agreement altogether.

The links in my last three posts have clearly demonstrated that the deal is not moving forward.

..."The Iranian regime did not sign the nuclear deal negotiated earlier this year, and the deal itself is not legally binding - that's according to an astonishing letter sent by the US State Department to Congressmen Mike Pompeo (R., Kan.) last week."...

Brass

Boy are you and YOUR terroristic intentions going to be disappointed when you find out things ARE moving forward, despite your continued hopes and wishes.     

Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 30, 2015, 11:45:09 AM
Russian ships waiting for hours to cross Bosphorus Strait in Turkey   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


Quote
Vessels sailing under the flag of Russia are now facing challenges while passing the Bosphorus Strait that connects the Black Sea with the Sea of Marmara, Kyiv-based Center for Transport Strategies reported with reference to data of an online vessel tracking system atmarinetraffic.com.


As reported, on Sunday Russian vessels were moving on a zig-zag and curved course, waiting for hours for permission to cross the Strait.

Movements of vessels from other countries were without a delay on that day. Russian vessels entered the Bosphorus late in the evening of November 29.

As UNIAN reported earlier, on November 28, Russia imposed sanctions against Turkey in response to the downing of a Russian Su-24 warplane by the Turkish Air Force. In addition, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered to suspend the visa-free regime with Turkey starting from January 1, 2016. Also a ban on charter air transportation between Russia and Turkey will be introduced.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/economics/1197904-russian-ships-waiting-for-hours-to-cross-bosphorus.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 30, 2015, 12:14:57 PM
. . . will reduce their reduction. 

Which will lead to induction or deduction ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on November 30, 2015, 08:13:18 PM
 
 
...the terms of the Obama deal.... 

What a brilliant chess master that guy.
Trades two knights, two bishops, and a rook for a pawn.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowe_Bergdahl
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 01, 2015, 09:52:14 AM
Boy are you and YOUR terroristic intentions going to be disappointed when you find out things ARE moving forward, despite your continued hopes and wishes.     

Iran’s Nuclear Stockpile Grows, Complicating Negotiations

..."WASHINGTON — With only one month left before a deadline to complete a nuclear deal with Iran, international inspectors have reported that Tehran’s stockpile of nuclear fuel increased about 20 percent over the last 18 months of negotiations, partially undercutting the Obama administration’s contention that the Iranian program had been “frozen” during that period.

But Western officials and experts cannot quite figure out why."...

 
Let me assist the 'Western officials and experts' with some helpful ideas to ease their conundrum...

1. They can start with...*Iran has no intention of honoring the agreement.* 

2. Because it's easier to reconvert nuclear facilities back to making bomb grade uranium after the inspections are over and the sanctions are fully lifted then it is to convert uranium. So appearing to comply with the small stuff while feigning a "Gee, how did that happen?" with the big stuff allows the weapons grade uranium production to proceed on schedule.

3. Obama and Kerry are complete feckless morons and Iran is thumbing their noses at them knowing there's no way that either of them will put a hold on the final deal even though they're already in non compliance of the interim accord.

Take your pick boys because it doesn't really matter. Iran will have their bombs regardless.

Seriously...Are the people we've put into the positions of leading our countries really this fcuking stupid?...

..."There is little doubt that in the absence of the interim accord, called the “Joint Plan of Action,” Iran would have made even greater strides. But the numbers published Friday by the atomic energy agency show that Iran has continued to enrich uranium aggressively, even though it knew that it was not meeting its goals of converting its stockpile into reactor rods."...

www.nytimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/02/world/middleeast/irans-nuclear-stockpile-grows-complicating-negotiations.html?_r=0)

Call Iran’s bluff, Mr. President

..."Once upon a time, the Obama administration insisted that any enforcement scheme would require a complete accounting of Iran’s PMDs (possible military dimensions). The administration then suggested it would be a condition for lifting of sanctions, but that did not make it into the deal. Then Secretary of State John F. Kerry pleaded that the PMDs and other inspection-related issues were in a document it did not have and could not produce. Now Iran insists on an ultimatum: either the deal or continued investigation of the PMD issue.

This should shock no one. “Iran has learned that its repeated threats will be met with climb-down after climb-down from the Obama administration,” says sanctions expert Mark Dubowitz. “So it’s no surprise that it is threatening to scuttle the Iran nuclear deal if the file is not closed on its weaponization activities.” He expects the administration will once again capitulate."...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/11/30/call-irans-bluff-mr-president/

You're still managing to stink up this forum with your unintelligent seditious trolling.

My "hopes and wishes" are that your terrorist leaders don't immediately escalate to thermal nuclear war once Obama has handed them the nucs.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 01, 2015, 10:04:17 AM
Call Iran’s bluff, Mr. President

..."Once upon a time, the Obama administration insisted that any enforcement scheme would require a complete accounting of Iran’s PMDs (possible military dimensions). The administration then suggested it would be a condition for lifting of sanctions, but that did not make it into the deal. Then Secretary of State John F. Kerry pleaded that the PMDs and other inspection-related issues were in a document it did not have and could not produce. Now Iran insists on an ultimatum: either the deal or continued investigation of the PMD issue.

This should shock no one. “Iran has learned that its repeated threats will be met with climb-down after climb-down from the Obama administration,” says sanctions expert Mark Dubowitz. “So it’s no surprise that it is threatening to scuttle the Iran nuclear deal if the file is not closed on its weaponization activities.” He expects the administration will once again capitulate."...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/11/30/call-irans-bluff-mr-president/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/11/30/call-irans-bluff-mr-president/)

You're still managing to stink up this forum with your unintelligent seditious trolling.

My "hopes and wishes" are that your terrorist leaders don't immediately escalate to thermal nuclear war once Obama has handed them the nucs.

Brass


This is more disingenuous fear mongering....if you had your way (Which thankfully you will not), we would already have massive war.   The deal continues to be implemented, despite your war and dominance hopes disguised as 'a stern ultra hard line'.   


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 01, 2015, 10:08:53 AM
What a brilliant chess master that guy.
Trades two knights, two bishops, and a rook for a pawn.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowe_Bergdahl

Maybe. Over the years I've come to adopt the Israeli position on prisoner exchange, though - One American (NATO/Western) soldier is worth a 100 Taliban terrorists. Get the hostage(s) freed and home. We can always sort the terrorists out later.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 01, 2015, 10:22:02 AM
This is more disingenuous fear mongering....if you had your way (Which thankfully you will not), we would already have massive war.   The deal continues to be implemented, despite your war and dominance hopes disguised as 'a stern ultra hard line'.   

...And your seditious trolling is nothing more than uninformed promotion of your terrorist leader's agenda.

You just keep repeating your lies and mantras without regard for substantiation or the truth. *There is no deal*. Iran has not signed anything and it's not legally binding.

Read what I'm posting/linking you silly little man...

And the Obama/Kerry final insult to the American people and by extension the civilized world...

Iran Nuclear Deal Is Not ‘Legally Binding,’ Obama Administration Admits

..."The nuclear deal agreed upon in July by the P5+1 world powers (US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China) and the Islamic Republic of Iran has no “legally binding” basis. The deal, paraded by President Obama as a surefire measure to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, is held together simply as a “political commitment” by the parties to the accord, the State Department admitted in a recent letter."...

www.breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/11/25/iran-nuclear-deal-not-legally-binding-obama-administration-admits/)

Iran Nuclear Deal Isn't A Bad Deal After All; It's No Deal

..."Nuclear Charade: The Obama administration admits to Congress that its nuclear pact with Iran has not been signed by the Iranian regime and has no legal force. Obama's "tough diplomacy" is puff diplomacy."...

news.investors.com (http://Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/112515-782651-iran-nuclear-deal-is-not-signed-or-binding.htm#ixzz3si0DHob9)

Iran didn't sign the nuclear deal - and it isn't legally binding

(http://www.israelnationalnews.com/static/Resizer.ashx/news/468/282/615556.jpg)

..."The Iranian regime did not sign the nuclear deal negotiated earlier this year, and the deal itself is not legally binding - that's according to an astonishing letter sent by the US State Department to Congressmen Mike Pompeo (R., Kan.) last week."...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/203986#.VliAfpuFPMw

Nuclear Deal: Iran Will Not Comply Until Commitments Are Met, Says Foreign Minister

(http://www.iranreview.org/file/cms/files/2359714-3418815(4).jpg)

..."Iranian Foreign Minister Seyyed Abbas Araqchi said Thursday that before Iran complies with the nuclear deal, nuclear inspectors must close their investigation into possible military dimensions of its nuclear program."...

http://www.hngn.com/articles/154352/20151126/nuclear-deal-iran-will-comply-until-commitments-met-foreign-minister.htm

Just look at the grins on the faces of these two terrorist leaders...You betcha, boys, your nuclear breakout is now guaranteed.

Bet you're thinking "Too bad Obama doesn't have another term in office...we'd rule the world with one or two more of these scam "historic" agreements like the one we just pulled here".  ;)

Brass 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on December 01, 2015, 10:58:40 AM
Maybe. Over the years I've come to adopt the Israeli position on prisoner exchange, though - One American (NATO/Western) soldier is worth a 100 Taliban terrorists. Get the hostage(s) freed and home. We can always sort the terrorists out later.

Brass


Brass, do you know the details about Bergdahl? He abandoned the Army for the terrorists. When searching for Bergdahl who deserted, soldiers lost their lives. I'd rather Obama spend the effort to free the doctor out of prison in Pakistan who led us to Osama Bin Laden than trade 5 terrorists who are basically at the rank of general for a private who deserted. Sorting out the terrorists later may not be a preferred method if we learn one of the freed generals masterminded the deaths of hundreds before they're caught again.


Obama has gone against America's policy of trading hostages with terrorists. What this does is let terrorists know kidnapping Americans is a good thing. Obama made Americans less safer doing what he did.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 01, 2015, 11:35:44 AM

Brass, do you know the details about Bergdahl? He abandoned the Army for the terrorists. When searching for Bergdahl who deserted, soldiers lost their lives. I'd rather Obama spend the effort to free the doctor out of prison in Pakistan who led us to Osama Bin Laden than trade 5 terrorists who are basically at the rank of general for a private who deserted. Sorting out the terrorists later may not be a preferred method if we learn one of the freed generals masterminded the deaths of hundreds before they're caught again.


Obama has gone against America's policy of trading hostages with terrorists. What this does is let terrorists know kidnapping Americans is a good thing. Obama made Americans less safer doing what he did.

Only what I read in the wiki link. There are conflicting reports of the circumstances of events leading up to his capture.

Dempsey put the controversy in perspective, as far as I'm concerned...

""The questions about this particular soldier's conduct are separate from our effort to recover ANY U.S. service member in enemy captivity" and that the military will investigate how Bergdahl was captured. "Like any American, he is innocent until proven guilty.[...] Our Army’s leaders will not look away from misconduct if it occurred. In the meantime, we will continue to care for him and his family."

If this soldier is guilty of a crime(s) it's best the American (military) judicial system now has the ability to investigate and deal with him, imo.

Yes, I'm aware my stance on this particular aspect of trading terrorists for hostages isn't popular. You might even be proven correct in that it allows freed terrorists to reenter the fight.

It's not something I arrived at immediately, however. Over the last 7 years or so we've been releasing terrorists on a regular basis...we should be at least be negotiating for the release of western hostages using the terrorist scum as currency.

Just my thoughts.

Brass



 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on December 01, 2015, 02:03:33 PM
Only what I read in the wiki link. There are conflicting reports of the circumstances of events leading up to his capture.


There's really not any conflicting reports on his desertion. The guys in his unit were sure of it. Any conflicting reports were on the part of the Army. Some surmise the claim of a "capture" were to tamper any media coverage of a desertion.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 01, 2015, 04:25:07 PM
There's really not any conflicting reports on his desertion. The guys in his unit were sure of it. Any conflicting reports were on the part of the Army. Some surmise the claim of a "capture" were to tamper any media coverage of a desertion.

Agreed. However, Bergdahl's desertion was not the first or last instance. ..

..."But beyond the debate over the trade that brought Bergdahl out of captivity, the questions around his conduct are part of a bigger -- and largely unexamined -- legacy of America’s two most recent wars.  An estimated 59,000 soldiers deserted the military during the 13 years of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, according to figures from the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force."...

http://www.ibtimes.com/debate-rages-over-bergdahls-alleged-desertion-awol-soldiers-reveal-motivations-1594816

The other question is was he a deserter or would he have returned if not captured reducing his actions to an AWA (Absent Without Authority) charge which carries no where near the penalty of Desertion.

I'm not defending his actions. I'm of the opinion that the "No man left behind" tradition (both Canadian and US military) supersedes any charges that may result from his actions.

He's an American soldier first. Bring him home. If he's committed crimes contrary to the code of service discipline then prosecute him in due course but don't leave him to die.

..."Critics of the deal -- including some members of Bergdahl's Army unit, the 25th Infantry Division in the 1st Battalion, 501st Infantry Regiment -- assert that he did not deserve such a strenuous effort to bring him home if he wandered off his base intending not to return, as some contend. Supporters of the deal say the traditional military code applies regardless: Soldiers do not leave their own behind, period."...

As a Recruit this was the first thing they drilled into us at Battle School. It stays with me to this day.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on December 01, 2015, 05:55:22 PM
I'm not defending his actions. I'm of the opinion that the "No man left behind" tradition (both Canadian and US military) supersedes any charges that may result from his actions.



I'm all for "No man left behind" too. After Bergdalh deserted, military units went looking for him and it cost lives. The problem with trading terrorists generals for soldiers is that policy could get hundreds more killed and more Americans kidnapped. There needs to be better judgment used when a policy may get more killed than saved.


He's an American soldier first. Bring him home. If he's committed crimes contrary to the code of service discipline then prosecute him in due course but don't leave him to die.



Soldier or not, his American life isn't any more valuable than the next American. Justice is currently serving Bergdalh. He'll probably end up in prison. Let's just hope his and Obama's actions doesn't get anybody else killed. I can't imagine any of those terrorist generals retiring. Once in those terrorists groups, always a terrorist and always active.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 01, 2015, 06:40:39 PM
...And your seditious trolling is nothing more than uninformed promotion of your terrorist leader's agenda.

You just keep repeating your lies and mantras without regard for substantiation or the truth. *There is no deal*. Iran has not signed anything and it's not legally binding.

Read what I'm posting/linking you silly little man...

Brass
Almost 5 months since the deal was agreed upon...still no nukes for Iran...nor will there be for the length of the deal, I suspect.  So all your whining and would be efforts to sabotage the deal is for naught. The more time that passes without Iran having nukes, the more wrong you are proving to be...


For all your rumbling, you have proven to be incredibly ignorant of how to bring a capable country into fold....which is to be done by working with the country to construct a fair deal...just as Obama and company did.....you foolishly think the US will just continue to make a one-sided demands coupled the threat of bombs...Obviously Iran wasn't withering very much to that...and leaders know starting a war (like you advocate)is the less optimal strategy.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 02, 2015, 03:31:49 PM

Despite the caterwauling from the militaristic ultra-far right....moving forward as planned.....
US ready to move ahead with Iran deal after UN bomb report



Washington (AFP) - The United States said Wednesday that it was ready to take the next step in implementing the Iran nuclear deal after an IAEA report on Tehran's weapons program.


State Department spokesman Mark Toner said that the UN watchdog had confirmed Washington's long-standing allegation that Tehran had once been working on a nuclear bomb, but he added that Iran had cooperated adequately with IAEA investigators.


"The IAEA report is consistent with what the United States has long assessed with high confidence,".................................

Under the deal, Iran will scale back its nuclear enrichment program dramatically -- a program it has always maintained was for purely peaceful purposes -- and submit its nuclear sites to international inspection.

In return, outside powers will end some of the international sanctions that have severely squeezed the Iranian economy.....


http://news.yahoo.com/us-ready-move-ahead-iran-deal-un-bomb-210053302.html (http://news.yahoo.com/us-ready-move-ahead-iran-deal-un-bomb-210053302.html)


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 03, 2015, 08:02:20 AM
I'm all for "No man left behind" too. After Bergdalh deserted, military units went looking for him and it cost lives. The problem with trading terrorists generals for soldiers is that policy could get hundreds more killed and more Americans kidnapped. There needs to be better judgment used when a policy may get more killed than saved.

I disagree. What is fundamental in our military training and traditions is it's understood we try to bring our people home. We don't leave them on the battle field and we do everything we can to rescue them if captured.

It's what makes us different. We don't write our soldiers off as a bad investment.

Soldier or not, his American life isn't any more valuable than the next American. Justice is currently serving Bergdalh. He'll probably end up in prison. Let's just hope his and Obama's actions doesn't get anybody else killed. I can't imagine any of those terrorist generals retiring. Once in those terrorists groups, always a terrorist and always active.

Obama's releasing them anyways. These generals, as you call them, are going to continue where they left off regardless. We may as well use them as currency to get our own back.

Again, I'm not defending Bergdahl's actions. If he's found guilty then he'll answer for it.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 03, 2015, 08:09:47 AM
Almost 5 months since the deal was agreed upon...still no nukes for Iran...nor will there be for the length of the deal, I suspect.  So all your whining and would be efforts to sabotage the deal is for naught. The more time that passes without Iran having nukes, the more wrong you are proving to be...


For all your rumbling, you have proven to be incredibly ignorant of how to bring a capable country into fold....which is to be done by working with the country to construct a fair deal...just as Obama and company did.....you foolishly think the US will just continue to make a one-sided demands coupled the threat of bombs...Obviously Iran wasn't withering very much to that...and leaders know starting a war (like you advocate)is the less optimal strategy.

You can't answer to the truth contained in my posts and links so you just continue to spew your lies and nonsensical propaganda.

You personify the term "useful idiot". Your terrorist masters would approve.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 03, 2015, 08:32:50 AM
Despite the caterwauling from the militaristic ultra-far right....moving forward as planned.....
US ready to move ahead with Iran deal after UN bomb report



Washington (AFP) - The United States said Wednesday that it was ready to take the next step in implementing the Iran nuclear deal after an IAEA report on Tehran's weapons program.


State Department spokesman Mark Toner said that the UN watchdog had confirmed Washington's long-standing allegation that Tehran had once been working on a nuclear bomb, but he added that Iran had cooperated adequately with IAEA investigators.


"The IAEA report is consistent with what the United States has long assessed with high confidence,".................................

Under the deal, Iran will scale back its nuclear enrichment program dramatically -- a program it has always maintained was for purely peaceful purposes -- and submit its nuclear sites to international inspection.

In return, outside powers will end some of the international sanctions that have severely squeezed the Iranian economy.....


http://news.yahoo.com/us-ready-move-ahead-iran-deal-un-bomb-210053302.html (http://news.yahoo.com/us-ready-move-ahead-iran-deal-un-bomb-210053302.html)

Absolute stupidity.

It's already documented the reason why Iran was incapable of moving forward (since 2009) with their nuclear breakout was the sanctions imposed on them. The same sanctions Obama and the other countries are now lifting...

U.N.: Iran's nuclear weapons research lasted until 2009

..."Iran worked on developing nuclear weapons in the past, but there's no evidence of such activities after 2009, the United Nations nuclear watchdog group said in a report released Wednesday.

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said many of Iran's nuclear activities were consistent with elements of a weapons program, despite Iran’s claims that its program was always peaceful.

The agency looked at several facets of Iran’s nuclear program to answer questions listed in its 2011 report to the United Nations Security Council. That report described evidence that Iran worked on nuclear detonators, developed highly enriched uranium fuel that could be used in a bomb and studied how radiation would spread after a hypothetical nuclear test."...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/12/02/un-irans-nuclear-weapons-research-lasted-until-2009/76679130/

This is exactly what I've been posting about over whatever many pages while you've attempted to shout me down with your lies and terrorist propaganda.

Obama moving forward was never in doubt. As I've already mentioned Iran could be denying they have the bomb while standing in front of a bomb and Obama would lift the sanctions. He has to or admit Iran scammed him.

Brass

 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 03, 2015, 09:28:04 AM
You can't answer to the truth contained in my posts and links so you just continue to spew your lies and nonsensical propaganda.

You personify the term "useful idiot". Your terrorist masters would approve.

Brass


Despite what you view as 'truth', all the major powers continue to disagree and move forward....which doesn't much credence to your angry partisan complaints.




Absolute stupidity.

It's already documented the reason why Iran was incapable of moving forward (since 2009) with their nuclear breakout was the sanctions imposed on them. The same sanctions Obama and the other countries are now lifting...
 
This is exactly what I've been posting about over whatever many pages while you've attempted to shout me down with your lies and terrorist propaganda.

Obama moving forward was never in doubt. As I've already mentioned Iran could be denying they have the bomb while standing in front of a bomb and Obama would lift the sanctions. He has to or admit Iran scammed him.

Brass


Nobody is trying to 'shout you down'...it is funny that YOU view it that way though....


It is completely fair to say that if you had your way, we (The US) would be involved in another full scale needless war.   Meanwhile the deal IS moving forward just the way it is supposed to.  If there was truly a problem like you continue to complain there is, I don't think ALL the major powers would be in unanimous agreement to continue the forward movement. 
Another week is passing and still no nukes or war in Iran....I label that a good thing....if anything it is YOU that is advocating terrorism although nobody in power is listening.   


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 03, 2015, 10:57:51 AM
Despite what you view as 'truth', all the major powers continue to disagree and move forward....which doesn't much credence to your angry partisan complaints.

Your BS in no way mitigates the fact that;

1) There is no deal.

2) Obama would move forward (with the other countries in tow) even if the Iranians were nationally televising they were converting uranium. He has to move forward or be proven wrong and that the whole exercise was pointless, which it was.

Nobody is trying to 'shout you down'...it is funny that YOU view it that way though....

I view it that way because that's exactly what you are trying to. Anybody reading this topic sees that.

It is completely fair to say that if you had your way, we (The US) would be involved in another full scale needless war.   Meanwhile the deal IS moving forward just the way it is supposed to.  If there was truly a problem like you continue to complain there is, I don't think ALL the major powers would be in unanimous agreement to continue the forward movement. 
Another week is passing and still no nukes or war in Iran....I label that a good thing....if anything it is YOU that is advocating terrorism although nobody in power is listening.   

More of your lies and misdirection;

1) Obama lifting the sanctions practically guarantees a (not too distant) war. Not the other way around.

2) The countries involved in this debacle are in the same boat as Obama. They can no more back out than Obama for the same reasons. Obama saw to that.

3) The sanctions are not fully lifted yet. You measure good news in weeks as if this is a victory for you. It's not. Even the most ambitious estimates are three to five months for Iran to achieve nuclear breakout after the sanctions are lifted.

You'll keep spewing your Iranian terrorist hero's propaganda. However, we're into the last year of Obama's disastrous presidency. Hopefully, this fiasco can be corrected by a new administration before Iran has a chance to do too much damage.

In the meantime this headline I linked up thread is the truth of the matter...

Iran Nuclear Deal Is Not ‘Legally Binding,’ Obama Administration Admits

..."The nuclear deal agreed upon in July by the P5+1 world powers (US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China) and the Islamic Republic of Iran has no “legally binding” basis. The deal, paraded by President Obama as a surefire measure to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, is held together simply as a “political commitment” by the parties to the accord, the State Department admitted in a recent letter."...

www.breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/11/25/iran-nuclear-deal-not-legally-binding-obama-administration-admits/)

...Strong work, Barry. After all the negotiations and time wasted trying to forge your 'historic' sellout you couldn't even get the terrorist leaders to sign the damn thing.

In other words Obama and Kerry got nothing - zero, zilch, nada from these criminals except a promise from some terrorist leaders that they won't continue building a nuclear arsenal they've been working on for 20+ years and couldn't complete because of the very sanctions that are now being lifted...Brilliant strategy. :rolleyes:

Brass









Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 03, 2015, 01:37:48 PM
Your BS in no way mitigates the fact that;

1) There is no deal.

2) Obama would move forward (with the other countries in tow) even if the Iranians were nationally televising they were converting uranium. He has to move forward or be proven wrong and that the whole exercise was pointless, which it was.

I view it that way because that's exactly what you are trying to. Anybody reading this topic sees that.

More of your lies and misdirection;

1) Obama lifting the sanctions practically guarantees a (not too distant) war. Not the other way around.

2) The countries involved in this debacle are in the same boat as Obama. They can no more back out than Obama for the same reasons. Obama saw to that.

3) The sanctions are not fully lifted yet. You measure good news in weeks as if this is a victory for you. It's not. Even the most ambitious estimates are three to five months for Iran to achieve nuclear breakout after the sanctions are lifted.

You'll keep spewing your Iranian terrorist hero's propaganda. However, we're into the last year of Obama's disastrous presidency. Hopefully, this fiasco can be corrected by a new administration before Iran has a chance to do too much damage.

In the meantime this headline I linked up thread is the truth of the matter...

Iran Nuclear Deal Is Not ‘Legally Binding,’ Obama Administration Admits

..."The nuclear deal agreed upon in July by the P5+1 world powers (US, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China) and the Islamic Republic of Iran has no “legally binding” basis. The deal, paraded by President Obama as a surefire measure to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, is held together simply as a “political commitment” by the parties to the accord, the State Department admitted in a recent letter."...

www.breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/11/25/iran-nuclear-deal-not-legally-binding-obama-administration-admits/)

...Strong work, Barry. After all the negotiations and time wasted trying to forge your 'historic' sellout you couldn't even get the terrorist leaders to sign the damn thing.

In other words Obama and Kerry got nothing - zero, zilch, nada from these criminals except a promise from some terrorist leaders that they won't continue building a nuclear arsenal they've been working on for 20+ years and couldn't complete because of the very sanctions that are now being lifted...Brilliant strategy. :rolleyes:

Brass

Rather than all the world power leaderships being wrong it is far more likely is that YOU are not willing to admit that you were wrong....and in a year or two will still be insisting a major war is 'around the corner'...and in 10 years it will still be 'around the corner'.   

Just because I'm challenging your warped narrative isn't tantamount to me 'shouting you down'. Nobody is under obligation to agree or remain silent regarding the hysterical war mongering you continually attempt to promote. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on December 03, 2015, 08:30:53 PM
Rather than all the world power leaderships being wrong ..........

What about ....?
 "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
    John Dalberg-Acton

Don't think so?
I sure do and have tried previously to convince Brass while sharing yet another subject.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 04, 2015, 01:11:47 AM
Russia faces massive USD 14 billion loss over cancelled South Stream and TurkStream gas projects

   
Gas and oil revenues pay for almost half Russia's annual budget
Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak has confirmed that the TurkStream gas project with Turkey is cancelled.

The abrupt ending of the project is the biggest economic ramification of the simmering trade war between Ankara and Moscow - sparked by the downing of a Russian jet near Syria last month.

"The work of the [Russian-Turkish] inter-governmental commission on trade and economic cooperation has been suspended. And the suspension includes halting of the work of the innovation-industry group and preparations of the agreement on Turkish Stream project," Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak told reporters on Thursday.

http://uatoday.tv/politics/russia-faces-massive-14-billion-loss-over-cancelled-south-stream-and-turkstream-gas-projects-547093.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 04, 2015, 07:38:45 AM
Rather than all the world power leaderships being wrong it is far more likely is that YOU are not willing to admit that you were wrong....and in a year or two will still be insisting a major war is 'around the corner'...and in 10 years it will still be 'around the corner'.   

Just because I'm challenging your warped narrative isn't tantamount to me 'shouting you down'. Nobody is under obligation to agree or remain silent regarding the hysterical war mongering you continually attempt to promote.

You're full of crap. You continue repeating the same unsubstantiated propaganda and terrorist fluffing post after post.

Your groveling adoration of Iran's terrorist regime is pathetic.

There's a jarring omission from a major new report on Iran's nuclear-weapons program

(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/0d2jobSTPz7Elwuw.ymu2A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9Mzc3O2lsPXBsYW5lO3B4b2ZmPTUwO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTY3MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2015-07-13T165342Z_1605291894_GF10000158048_RTRMADP_3_IRAN-NUCLEAR.JPG)

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif stands on the balcony of Palais Coburg, the venue for nuclear talks, Austria, July 13, 2015

..."Under the US's interpretation of the nuclear deal, Iran was not obligated to fully cooperate with the IAEA probe, according to The Wall Street Journal.

Even with such a loose standard for Iranian compliance, the IAEA found that Iran had engaged in nuclear-weaponization activities until 2009, some six years longer than previously available open-source information had suggested."...

..."The IAEA reports that Iran engaged in computer modeling of nuclear-explosive devices, and conducted research into engineering controlled materials for possible weaponization purposes until 2009. But it says relatively little about the human infrastructure of Iran's efforts to build a nuclear weapon — an infrastructure that survived beyond 2009."...

..."Even assuming Iran had halted most weaponization work in 2003 and all such work by 2009, the country in 2012 had preserved a formal network of scientists that could be mobilized for the development of a nuclear bomb.

Iran retained the personnel, the infrastructure, and the technical knowledge of its earlier weaponization push, even if an actual weapons program had been suspended. The "organizational framework" for a nuclear weapons program was still in place as late as 2012."...

..."In its probe, the IAEA learned nothing new about an alleged test of a ballistic nuclear trigger that Iran "may have planned and undertaken" in 2002 or 2003, also basing its conclusions on information received before 2011.

"Faced with such outright Iranian efforts to deceive the inspectors, the IAEA broke relatively little new ground," an assessment from the Institute for Science and International Security concluded."...

http://www.businessinsider.com/iaea-report-on-iran-nuclear-weapons-program-2015-12

You're nothing more than a useful idiot to the terrorist cause. You're the guy Javad above is laughing at every time you defend his terrorist agenda.

The comical part is you actually believe you're part of their team.

Brass






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 04, 2015, 08:58:51 AM
You're full of crap. You continue repeating the same unsubstantiated propaganda and terrorist fluffing post after post.

Your groveling adoration of Iran's terrorist regime is pathetic.

There's a jarring omission from a major new report on Iran's nuclear-weapons program

(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/0d2jobSTPz7Elwuw.ymu2A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9Mzc3O2lsPXBsYW5lO3B4b2ZmPTUwO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTY3MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2015-07-13T165342Z_1605291894_GF10000158048_RTRMADP_3_IRAN-NUCLEAR.JPG)

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif stands on the balcony of Palais Coburg, the venue for nuclear talks, Austria, July 13, 2015

..."Under the US's interpretation of the nuclear deal, Iran was not obligated to fully cooperate with the IAEA probe, according to The Wall Street Journal.

Even with such a loose standard for Iranian compliance, the IAEA found that Iran had engaged in nuclear-weaponization activities until 2009, some six years longer than previously available open-source information had suggested."...

..."The IAEA reports that Iran engaged in computer modeling of nuclear-explosive devices, and conducted research into engineering controlled materials for possible weaponization purposes until 2009. But it says relatively little about the human infrastructure of Iran's efforts to build a nuclear weapon — an infrastructure that survived beyond 2009."...

..."Even assuming Iran had halted most weaponization work in 2003 and all such work by 2009, the country in 2012 had preserved a formal network of scientists that could be mobilized for the development of a nuclear bomb.

Iran retained the personnel, the infrastructure, and the technical knowledge of its earlier weaponization push, even if an actual weapons program had been suspended. The "organizational framework" for a nuclear weapons program was still in place as late as 2012."...

..."In its probe, the IAEA learned nothing new about an alleged test of a ballistic nuclear trigger that Iran "may have planned and undertaken" in 2002 or 2003, also basing its conclusions on information received before 2011.

"Faced with such outright Iranian efforts to deceive the inspectors, the IAEA broke relatively little new ground," an assessment from the Institute for Science and International Security concluded."...

http://www.businessinsider.com/iaea-report-on-iran-nuclear-weapons-program-2015-12 (http://www.businessinsider.com/iaea-report-on-iran-nuclear-weapons-program-2015-12)

You're nothing more than a useful idiot to the terrorist cause. You're the guy Javad above is laughing at every time you defend his terrorist agenda.

The comical part is you actually believe you're part of their team.

Brass


What is most pathetic is YOUR fruitless efforts to undermine the deal. Heck you aren't even a part of the US, yet you think you should be dictating the deals our country makes.   


You and your war mongering has tomato in the face.  Things move forward, and you shake your fist in worthless anger.   
Look another week is passing, and Iran still has no nukes!  Soon it will be months/years, and the tomato on your face will be all dried up.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 04, 2015, 10:44:58 AM
What is most pathetic is YOUR fruitless efforts to undermine the deal. Heck you aren't even a part of the US, yet you think you should be dictating the deals our country makes.   

This disastrous sell out effects everyone and why is your clown, who clearly has abrogated his right to speak on anyone's behalf, let alone the civilized world, making noises like he speaks for me in the first place?

You and your war mongering has tomato in the face.  Things move forward, and you shake your fist in worthless anger.   
Look another week is passing, and Iran still has no nukes!  Soon it will be months/years, and the tomato on your face will be all dried up.

It is you who is war mongering by advocating Obama's promissory note with known terrorists. It is his surrender to these terrorists that guarantees the war, not the other way around.

You continue to measure success in weeks when I've already told you that the best estimates for your terrorist leaders to attain breakout is three to five months.

You troll with nothing but fallacious disinformation and prostrated fluffing of your Iranian heroes.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 04, 2015, 02:50:38 PM
You're full of crap. You continue repeating the same unsubstantiated propaganda and terrorist fluffing post after post.

Brass

Brass--I sincerely hope this is not a new revelation to you !!! :D

I was saying that over 18 months ago as the troll pumped the pro-Rus crap on full stream.

Hard as it will be for you to believe--I got a few banned periods for saying it back then and spent time in the sin bin  !
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 04, 2015, 02:56:57 PM
This disastrous sell out effects everyone and why is your clown, who clearly has abrogated his right to speak on anyone's behalf, let alone the civilized world, making noises like he speaks for me in the first place?



So you think Obama is a sellout and a clown...because he is going in with all the other major world powers...they UNANIMOUSLY agreed this was the best route to go....but you insist YOU know better than all of them.   :rolleyes:





You continue to measure success in weeks when I've already told you that the best estimates for your terrorist leaders to attain breakout is three to five months.



I shall remind you that it has already been almost 5 months since the deal was struck....so to this point it closing in on 1/2 a year with no nukes.




You troll with nothing but fallacious disinformation and prostrated fluffing of your Iranian heroes.


Yes, yes...troll etc etc...hahaha.  The one providing disinformation is YOU.  If your 'information' was taken seriously, the world would probably be at war by now....so obviously you are free to continue to hysterically 'fluff yourself'...while I'll continue to take a look at the issue with a level head...so far the level heads are prevailing, and you and have tomato on your face....rightfully so I might add....


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 04, 2015, 02:58:09 PM
Brass--I sincerely hope this is not a new revelation to you !!! :D

I was saying that over 18 months ago as the troll pumped the pro-Rus crap on full stream.

Hard as it will be for you to believe--I got a few banned periods for saying it back then and spent time in the sin bin  !


I didn't realize it was me that got your thrown in the 'sin bin', but I'm delighted it was me that provided that service to the forum!


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 06, 2015, 09:23:38 AM
So you think Obama is a sellout and a clown...because he is going in with all the other major world powers...they UNANIMOUSLY agreed this was the best route to go....but you insist YOU know better than all of them.   :rolleyes:

I shall remind you that it has already been almost 5 months since the deal was struck....so to this point it closing in on 1/2 a year with no nukes.

Yes, yes...troll etc etc...hahaha.  The one providing disinformation is YOU.  If your 'information' was taken seriously, the world would probably be at war by now....so obviously you are free to continue to hysterically 'fluff yourself'...while I'll continue to take a look at the issue with a level head...so far the level heads are prevailing, and you and have tomato on your face....rightfully so I might add....

I've already refuted every one of these lies several times up thread.

Although you still attempt to fulfill your role as the useful idiot spewing your fallacious deflection to further your Iranian hero's agenda, at the heart of the matter, you have neither the intelligence or subject knowledge to even attempt to defend the indefensible. So you'll continue to ignore the facts and truth of my narratives/links and simply repeat your seditious mantras that do nothing more than confirm your ardent terrorist worship .

Meanwhile, I'll continue to link the Iranian terrorist leader's march to nuclear breakout as the information becomes available while the ineffectual Obama sellout inevitably falls apart.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 06, 2015, 11:02:33 AM
I've already refuted every one of these lies several times up thread.

Although you still attempt to fulfill your role as the useful idiot spewing your fallacious deflection to further your Iranian hero's agenda, at the heart of the matter, you have neither the intelligence or subject knowledge to even attempt to defend the indefensible. So you'll continue to ignore the facts and truth of my narratives/links and simply repeat your seditious mantras that do nothing more than confirm your ardent terrorist worship .

Meanwhile, I'll continue to link the Iranian terrorist leader's march to nuclear breakout as the information becomes available while the ineffectual Obama sellout inevitably falls apart.

Brass
Steaming pile of 'intellectual' caca!  What you consider 'facts' and 'refutation' are often not facts or factual refutes, but rather biased black and white narratives that holes can easily poked into.  I'm pretty sure you have worshiped your own brand of terror now for decades, except that isn't what you called it.


The deal moves forward, and you writhe in trembling anger because you don't get to see what you view as the delectable delicacy of more western bombs falling on people that don't want to be domineered from afar.  A fair deal was struck involving not just Obama, but all the major powers. Deaf ears is all you will experience, and that is a very good thing!


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 06, 2015, 09:28:24 PM

I didn't realize it was me that got your thrown in the 'sin bin', but I'm delighted it was me that provided that service to the forum!


Fathertime!   

You did'nt. It was the people I cannot mention  that did not realise at that time what a piece of c...  you are.Not a problem now--it is obvious to all.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 06, 2015, 11:10:06 PM

Brass--I sincerely hope this is not a new revelation to you !!! :D

I was saying that over 18 months ago as the troll pumped the pro-Rus crap on full stream.

Hard as it will be for you to believe--I got a few banned periods for saying it back then and spent time in the sin bin  !

You did'nt. It was the people I cannot mention  that did not realise at that time what a piece of c...  you are.Not a problem now--it is obvious to all.
Poor hapless jayh,
So now you must admit you lied!  Which of these two posts is the lie though? Obviously since they are saying opposite things it isn't possible for both to be true.    hahaha...


Fathertime!   


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 07, 2015, 09:38:56 AM
Steaming pile of 'intellectual' caca!  What you consider 'facts' and 'refutation' are often not facts or factual refutes, but rather biased black and white narratives that holes can easily poked into.  I'm pretty sure you have worshiped your own brand of terror now for decades, except that isn't what you called it.

The deal moves forward, and you writhe in trembling anger because you don't get to see what you view as the delectable delicacy of more western bombs falling on people that don't want to be domineered from afar.  A fair deal was struck involving not just Obama, but all the major powers. Deaf ears is all you will experience, and that is a very good thing!

And yet you continue to post lies and misdirection as your sole means of answering to my 'facts'. Try as you might to deflect from the truth of the matter  you're simply not capable of 'poking holes' in anything I've posted or linked. All you can do is keep spewing more of your seditious poison.

You're basically just an idiot trying to show your fealty and support for your terrorist master's cause through unintelligent, malicious rhetoric which you inject into normal discussions at every opportunity. 

What you don't seem to understand is your pathetic trolling only serves to strengthen the veracity of my posts/comments not detract from it.

Brass 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 07, 2015, 10:44:17 AM
And yet you continue to post lies and misdirection as your sole means of answering
What you don't seem to understand is your pathetic trolling only serves to strengthen the veracity of my posts/comments not detract from it.

Brass

Brass-- the easiest illustration of exactly that is the posts immediately above.
You and I both understand my reference very well -and what it was about--yet the troll seeks to make it about him and in the process illustrates his ignorance on a very specific topic-- yet- that does not stop the attempt to interject in the attempt to get attention.
Laughable and pathetic
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 07, 2015, 11:15:32 AM
Brass-- the easiest illustration of exactly that is the posts immediately above.
You and I both understand my reference very well -and what it was about--yet the troll seeks to make it about him and in the process illustrates his ignorance on a very specific topic-- yet- that does not stop the attempt to interject in the attempt to get attention.
Laughable and pathetic

Yep, I understand your comment (s) and their context. What will happen here though is our resident troll will attempt to exploit what he perceives as a chance to keep his malicious rhetoric alive and running. He's probably good for another dozen or so posts yet before the loop repeats itself. ;D

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 07, 2015, 12:05:37 PM
And yet you continue to post lies and misdirection as your sole means of answering to my 'facts'. Try as you might to deflect from the truth of the matter  you're simply not capable of 'poking holes' in anything I've posted or linked. All you can do is keep spewing more of your seditious poison.

You're basically just an idiot trying to show your fealty and support for your terrorist master's cause through unintelligent, malicious rhetoric which you inject into normal discussions at every opportunity. 

What you don't seem to understand is your pathetic trolling only serves to strengthen the veracity of my posts/comments not detract from it.

Brass


Only in your mind are your 'points' strengthened, which is ok with me.  I'm reasonably certain, that is not the case.  You are merely a small man on a computer mongering for more war, on very shaky ground...  There is plenty of support for the current Iran deal, and that has you all in a twist.  Several years later you will still be whining from your wheelchair about how it was such a terrible deal, meanwhile the world won't have experienced the large war you eagerly await.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 07, 2015, 12:08:41 PM
Brass-- the easiest illustration of exactly that is the posts immediately above.
You and I both understand my reference very well -and what it was about--yet the troll seeks to make it about him and in the process illustrates his ignorance on a very specific topic-- yet- that does not stop the attempt to interject in the attempt to get attention.
Laughable and pathetic


You don't seem to be 'laughing' though!  ;)


I find your posts to be a particular brand of ignorance, which actually is a bit humorous.  In the case of the Iran deal, most of the world seems to agree with the viewpoint I have.  It is merely a smaller group of war fanatics that would like to light the world a fire unnecessarily, and I'm pretty sure they are being seen for what they are more and more.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 07, 2015, 02:07:48 PM

Only in your mind are your 'points' strengthened, which is ok with me.  I'm reasonably certain, that is not the case.  You are merely a small man on a computer mongering for more war, on very shaky ground...  There is plenty of support for the current Iran deal, and that has you all in a twist.  Several years later you will still be whining from your wheelchair about how it was such a terrible deal, meanwhile the world won't have experienced the large war you eagerly await.

If it were "reasonably certain, that is not the case" you'd be able to put forth a reasonable argument instead of the slander, lies and propaganda you spew on a daily basis.

Obama's promissory note will not survive several months let alone several years and the anarchist war you, your terrorist leaders have worked for/supported and think they can win is already guaranteed.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 07, 2015, 02:55:42 PM
If it were "reasonably certain, that is not the case" you'd be able to put forth a reasonable argument instead of the slander, lies and propaganda you spew on a daily basis.

Obama's promissory note will not survive several months let alone several years and the anarchist war you, your terrorist leaders have worked for/supported and think they can win is already guaranteed.

Brass
YOU are the propaganda guy.  Thus far it has all proved to be wrong, as usual.  The proof is that Iran doesn't have nuclear material.  The deal is working, and you couldn't be unhappier about it.   Your scare mongering has failed. Had you succeeded we would have been in a large and pointless war...but this would have delighted your warped sense of 'right'

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 08, 2015, 09:40:38 AM
YOU are the propaganda guy.  Thus far it has all proved to be wrong, as usual.  The proof is that Iran doesn't have nuclear material.

As I've already conclusively established, you'll post any outrageous lie, dis/misinformation, maliciously troll or otherwise disrupt/muddy the truth of what I'm posting to try and shout me down. In other words you'll post any BS to prostrate yourself to your terrorist cause and further your terrorist leader's agenda.

I've posted several times you have absolutely no understanding of the subject. This asinine statement quote/statement of yours  that "The proof is that Iran doesn't have nuclear material" is just one more example of how far out of your intellectual depth you really are...

This is Iran's nuclear materials inventory...

http://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/gov-2015-50-derestr.pdf


The deal is working, and you couldn't be unhappier about it.   Your scare mongering has failed. Had you succeeded we would have been in a large and pointless war...but this would have delighted your warped sense of 'right'

U.S. Officials: Iran Tested Missile, Violating U.N. Resolution

..."WASHINGTON/UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Iran tested a new medium-range ballistic missile last month in a breach of two U.N. Security Council resolutions, two U.S. officials said on Monday.

The officials, both speaking on condition of anonymity, said the test was held on Nov. 21. One of them said the missile traveled within Iranian territory."...

http://www.newsweek.com/iran-missile-united-nations-402380

Iran tests new ballistic missile in breach of 2 UN Security Council resolutions

..."Iran tested a new medium-range ballistic missile last month in a breach of two U.N. Security Council resolutions, two U.S. officials said on Monday."...

http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-tests-new-ballistic-missile-in-breach-of-un-security-council-2015-12

Iran tested missile, breaching U.N. council resolutions: Report
Reuters
Tuesday, December 8, 2015 1:11:28 EST AM

..."A Western diplomatic source said last week on condition of anonymity that the test was held near Chabahar, a port city near Iran's border with Pakistan. He said it was a liquid-fueled missile with a 1,900 km (1,180 mile) range and was capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.

All ballistic missile tests by Iran are banned under a 2010 Security Council resolution that remains valid until a nuclear deal between Iran and six world powers is implemented."...

http://www.lfpress.com/2015/12/07/iran-tested-missile-breaching-un-council-resolutions-report

...And you are a very useful idiot to the terrorist cause.

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 08, 2015, 10:40:10 AM
As I've already conclusively established, you'll post any outrageous lie, dis/misinformation, maliciously troll or otherwise disrupt/muddy the truth of what I'm posting to try and shout me down. In other words you'll post any BS to prostrate yourself to your terrorist cause and further your terrorist leader's agenda.

I've posted several times you have absolutely no understanding of the subject. This asinine statement quote/statement of yours  that "The proof is that Iran doesn't have nuclear material" is just one more example of how far out of your intellectual depth you really are...

This is Iran's nuclear materials inventory...

http://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/gov-2015-50-derestr.pdf (http://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/gov-2015-50-derestr.pdf)


U.S. Officials: Iran Tested Missile, Violating U.N. Resolution

..."WASHINGTON/UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Iran tested a new medium-range ballistic missile last month in a breach of two U.N. Security Council resolutions, two U.S. officials said on Monday.

The officials, both speaking on condition of anonymity, said the test was held on Nov. 21. One of them said the missile traveled within Iranian territory."...

http://www.newsweek.com/iran-missile-united-nations-402380 (http://www.newsweek.com/iran-missile-united-nations-402380)

Iran tests new ballistic missile in breach of 2 UN Security Council resolutions

..."Iran tested a new medium-range ballistic missile last month in a breach of two U.N. Security Council resolutions, two U.S. officials said on Monday."...

http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-tests-new-ballistic-missile-in-breach-of-un-security-council-2015-12 (http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-tests-new-ballistic-missile-in-breach-of-un-security-council-2015-12)

Iran tested missile, breaching U.N. council resolutions: Report
Reuters
Tuesday, December 8, 2015 1:11:28 EST AM

..."A Western diplomatic source said last week on condition of anonymity that the test was held near Chabahar, a port city near Iran's border with Pakistan. He said it was a liquid-fueled missile with a 1,900 km (1,180 mile) range and was capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.

All ballistic missile tests by Iran are banned under a 2010 Security Council resolution that remains valid until a nuclear deal between Iran and six world powers is implemented."...

http://www.lfpress.com/2015/12/07/iran-tested-missile-breaching-un-council-resolutions-report (http://www.lfpress.com/2015/12/07/iran-tested-missile-breaching-un-council-resolutions-report)

...And you are a very useful idiot to the terrorist cause.

Brass

Mostly redundant gas and untrue whiny complaints about 'shout downs'..bottom line is that there is a plan in place going forward, if there is a significant breach by either side, it will be dealt with (as it should be), but not the way you would like......YOUR idea of military attack and war has been carefully placed on the back burner for now.   You are an un-useful (useless) idiot for your terroristic ideas...since your ideas have been shutdown by the current leadership....your kneejerk fear-laden 'bomb first' response has been rejected.

The significance of a level deal, and level-head responses, by default means you, and your impulsive responses are off the table.  Nations are not going to agree with the lopsided agreements you would prefer by threat of force.

Fathertime!   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on December 08, 2015, 12:06:39 PM
Russia isn't really very close to Montenegro. Montenegro is much closer to Italy
for example. I'm not sure what Montenegro brings to the party however.

NATO invites Montenegro to join, angering Russia

(http://iakal.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/yugoslavia.jpg)

http://news.yahoo.com/nato-invites-montenegro-join-alliance-stoltenberg-075330497.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on December 08, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
Nato invitation to Montenegro prompts Russia warning
Montenegro's accession would result in "retaliatory actions", said a
spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin.



read all about it here
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34981973
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 09, 2015, 09:30:21 AM
Mostly redundant gas and untrue whiny complaints about 'shout downs'..bottom line is that there is a plan in place going forward, if there is a significant breach by either side, it will be dealt with (as it should be), but not the way you would like......YOUR idea of military attack and war has been carefully placed on the back burner for now.   You are an un-useful (useless) idiot for your terroristic ideas...since your ideas have been shutdown by the current leadership....your kneejerk fear-laden 'bomb first' response has been rejected.

The significance of a level deal, and level-head responses, by default means you, and your impulsive responses are off the table.  Nations are not going to agree with the lopsided agreements you would prefer by threat of force.

Just more of your BS and trolling.

You simply can't answer to Iran's flagrant breaches of Obama's sellout in the links I've provided or refute the fact I've again caught you in yet another lie.

All you can hope for is piling on this avalanche of unintelligent lies, propaganda and supplicant adoration of your terrorist leaders will somehow deflect from the truth of the matter that the criminals you so ardently admire and fluff for are, even as I post this message, inexorably marching towards nuclear breakout.

Brass 





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 09, 2015, 09:59:11 AM
Just more of your BS and trolling.

You simply can't answer to Iran's flagrant breaches  .



YOU are unable to accept that Iran has struck a deal with the western nations.


Iran has breached the earlier UN resolution, that is not surprising, they never accepted it to begin with and have already stated that they won't.  The latest deal they were a part of and all parties are expected to hold up their end. 


All you can hope and pray for is that somehow there is some setup or breach so you get your wish of bombing another Muslim country that you would like to see be dominated.  To this point your wishes are being ignored, and you are angrily and haplessly whining loudly on the back burner....where you belong.  :D


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 09, 2015, 03:50:08 PM

YOU are unable to accept that Iran has struck a deal with the western nations.


Iran has breached the earlier UN resolution, that is not surprising, they never accepted it to begin with and have already stated that they won't.  The latest deal they were a part of and all parties are expected to hold up their end.


All you can hope and pray for is that somehow there is some setup or breach so you get your wish of bombing another Muslim country that you would like to see be dominated.  To this point your wishes are being ignored, and you are angrily and haplessly whining loudly on the back burner....where you belong.  :D

You are even a bigger idiot than you come across as or you're lying again. As I've already caught you out lying on several occasions just on this topic alone, I'll assume the latter...

Iran tests a second ballistic missile since US nuclear deal

..."Ballistic missiles are especially sensitive with Iran because they could provide the delivery system for a nuclear warhead. As part of nuclear negotiations with world powers, Iran accepted an eight-year extension of a UN ban on its ballistic missile program. A Western diplomatic source said that the test of a Ghadr-110, a spin-off of the Shahab-3 missile, was held near Chabahar, a port city near Iran’s border with Pakistan."...

www.theaustralian.com (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/iran-tests-a-second-ballistic-missile-since-us-nuclear-deal/news-story/14247d95e1af95cd48644d6d0251b38a)

Iran violated nuclear deal with second ballistic missile test last month, U.S. officials say

U.S. officials believe the test was conducted Nov. 21 from the city of Chabahar -- which would be a violation of a 2010 United Nations Security Council resolution.

The resolution still stands as an international law until the nuclear deal that was reached in June, which also bars such tests for eight years, is implemented.

www.upi.com (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2015/12/08/Iran-violated-nuclear-deal-with-second-ballistic-missile-test-last-month-US-officials-say/3371449620806/)

You still continue to walk the path of ignorance and servitude to your Iranian terrorist heroes and persist in defending their flagrant breaches of the Obama sellout even as they prepare for their nuclear break out right in front of your eyes.

As the Iranians again thumb their noses at Obama and the world your repetitive mewling becomes increasingly irrelevant.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 09, 2015, 04:39:08 PM
You are even a bigger idiot than you come across as or you're lying again. As I've already caught you out lying on several occasions just on this topic alone, I'll assume the latter...

Iran tests a second ballistic missile since US nuclear deal

..."Ballistic missiles are especially sensitive with Iran because they could provide the delivery system for a nuclear warhead. As part of nuclear negotiations with world powers, Iran accepted an eight-year extension of a UN ban on its ballistic missile program. A Western diplomatic source said that the test of a Ghadr-110, a spin-off of the Shahab-3 missile, was held near Chabahar, a port city near Iran’s border with Pakistan."...

www.theaustralian.com (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/iran-tests-a-second-ballistic-missile-since-us-nuclear-deal/news-story/14247d95e1af95cd48644d6d0251b38a)

Iran violated nuclear deal with second ballistic missile test last month, U.S. officials say

U.S. officials believe the test was conducted Nov. 21 from the city of Chabahar -- which would be a violation of a 2010 United Nations Security Council resolution.

The resolution still stands as an international law until the nuclear deal that was reached in June, which also bars such tests for eight years, is implemented.

www.upi.com (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2015/12/08/Iran-violated-nuclear-deal-with-second-ballistic-missile-test-last-month-US-officials-say/3371449620806/)

You still continue to walk the path of ignorance and servitude to your Iranian terrorist heroes and persist in defending their flagrant breaches of the Obama sellout even as they prepare for their nuclear break out right in front of your eyes.

As the Iranians again thumb their noses at Obama and the world your repetitive mewling becomes increasingly irrelevant.

Brass


Geez, what an angry knucklehead!


I really think you need to go back to school or something.  You are completely detached from reality on this issue!   Iran has not agreed to abide by to the prior resolution....if they had, the deal wouldn't be necessary, in addition, the world powers that UNANIMOUSLY agreed to the deal would have reacted...or perhaps once again, you think you know better than ALL the world powers!  :rolleyes:




It is rather humorous reading you flailing away to no avail regarding Iran.  Obviously your aggressive view is not deemed very important or intelligent.  Look! Another week is passing again and the deal is STILL moving forward and you have egg/mud on your angry face, while the rest of the world can celebrate the achievement.

Fathertime!










Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on December 10, 2015, 01:17:23 AM

On this website not only was 30 dollar oil wrongfully predicted, but also 20 dollar oil was also wrongfully predicted.  To this point, 40 dollar oil is where it has leveled off at, and 30 dollar oil would require another 25% drop.


Fathertime!

Well, it's now thirty something and falling - I am glad you aren't my futures man  ;D

I'm teasing you, FT

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 10, 2015, 02:36:34 AM
Well, it's now thirty something and falling - I am glad you aren't my futures man  ;D

I'm teasing you, FT

Along with the "genius"  that urged  forum members to buy big into roubles about a year ago or so- it shows a moronic ability to be ridiculous! Where  is  that Manny now?

If he took his own advice it will soon take about 1/3 of the time to count the rubble that is left of his roubles !!   :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 10, 2015, 05:08:39 AM
Well, it's now thirty something and falling - I am glad you aren't my futures man  ;D

I'm teasing you, FT


Hehe MS, I see oil is at 37 or so, the lowest it has been, but not much less than 40....which still isn't 30 or 20. I had a bet 1 year ago with a former member here regarding oil price being 20 by now, he is no longer here, but if he was, he would need to pay up.   Overall I read what some of the experts like Goldman Sachs say, yet it is still hard for me to believe we will have oil much lower than it is currently for a long length of time...but in 2009 I believe we were a little lower than now, but not by much and it was brief.  I'm good with it staying at this low level since we have several cars and don't want to pay more than is necessary for gasoline...and California prices are pretty high compared to the other states...although we are down to as low as 2.39 as of yesterday. 




Along with the "genius"  that urged  forum members to buy big into roubles about a year ago or so- it shows a moronic ability to be ridiculous! Where  is  that Manny now?

If he took his own advice it will soon take about 1/3 of the time to count the rubble that is left of his roubles !!   :D


I'm sure that man's prediction on rubles was incorrect, just as your ridiculous predictions have been throughout.


Fathertime! 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 10, 2015, 10:42:11 AM

Geez, what an angry knucklehead!

I really think you need to go back to school or something.  You are completely detached from reality on this issue!   Iran has not agreed to abide by to the prior resolution....if they had, the deal wouldn't be necessary, in addition, the world powers that UNANIMOUSLY agreed to the deal would have reacted...or perhaps once again, you think you know better than ALL the world powers!  :rolleyes:

It is rather humorous reading you flailing away to no avail regarding Iran.  Obviously your aggressive view is not deemed very important or intelligent.  Look! Another week is passing again and the deal is STILL moving forward and you have egg/mud on your angry face, while the rest of the world can celebrate the achievement.

Your post is nothing but rehashed outright lies and trolling from beginning to end.

I've already completely debunked all your nonsensical disinformation and deflection in my post you actually had the gall to quote above (as an excuse to spew yet more of your terrorist hero worship, no doubt) including the bolded sentences undeniably corroborating that Iran is already in willful contravention of the Obama sellout...

..."As part of nuclear negotiations with world powers, Iran accepted an eight-year extension of a UN ban on its ballistic missile program....

..."the nuclear deal that was reached in June, which also bars such tests for eight years, is implemented....

You are a contemptible troll who has neither the honesty or integrity to admit you're a subversive sympathizer so you continue to ignore the factual information contained in my posts and substitute loathsome deceitful narratives to try and deflect from your own glaring ignorance, hatred of your country and reverent deference to your terrorist idols.

Brass





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 10, 2015, 03:02:01 PM
Your post is nothing but rehashed outright lies and trolling from beginning to end.

I've already completely debunked all your nonsensical disinformation and deflection in my post you actually had the gall to quote above (as an excuse to spew yet more of your terrorist hero worship, no doubt) including the bolded sentences undeniably corroborating that Iran is already in willful contravention of the Obama sellout...

..."As part of nuclear negotiations with world powers, Iran accepted an eight-year extension of a UN ban on its ballistic missile program....

..."the nuclear deal that was reached in June, which also bars such tests for eight years, is implemented....

You are a contemptible troll who has neither the honesty or integrity to admit you're a subversive sympathizer so you continue to ignore the factual information contained in my posts and substitute loathsome deceitful narratives to try and deflect from your own glaring ignorance, hatred of your country and reverent deference to your terrorist idols.

Brass


 :ROFL:


I will have to assume that you are angrily and intentionally misstating  the fine print regarding ballistic missiles....If Iran was in obvious breach the deal would be off...yet it moves forward UNANIMOUSLY!   There really is no way around it...you are entirely wrong and perhaps willfully ignorant.   All the huffing and puffing doesn't make a bit of difference.  Iran has no nukes and the deal insures they won't anytime soon...you are merely furious that that events are proving you wrong, and you don't get to see bombs fall on a people you obviously loath. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on December 10, 2015, 06:10:55 PM
Perhaps you should browse around Victoria Secret. Your brain is cold.

Ballistic and Intercontinental Delivery Systems were never mentioned, covered or are any part of the agreement/negotiations.

The discussion is about two different understandings/resolutions.

Please try to stay current because you seems like you are riding an ass facing backwards.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 10, 2015, 06:55:23 PM
Perhaps you should browse around Victoria Secret. Your brain is cold.

Ballistic and Intercontinental Delivery Systems were never mentioned, covered or are any part of the agreement/negotiations.

The discussion is about two different understandings/resolutions.

Please try to stay current because you seems like you are riding an ass facing backwards.
You must be addressing me, although frustrated guy, extremely eager for world war was the fine fellow who brought up ballistic missiles...right here

..."As part of nuclear negotiations with world powers, Iran accepted an eight-year extension of a UN ban on its ballistic missile program....





Anything else?   Enjoy Victoria Secret solo on your donkey!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2015, 11:09:03 AM
Here is a balanced article discussing the Iran deal!  Makes a lot of sense on how to move forward, and discusses those few that attempt to use or say ANYTHING to recklessly TRY to torpedo the deal.   



http://news.yahoo.com/iran-building-nuclear-bomb-165142436.html
 (http://news.yahoo.com/iran-building-nuclear-bomb-165142436.html)


Iran Was Building a Nuclear Bomb, So What?
.....Others, too, are unhappy. My friends at the Institute for Science and International Security (aka The Good ISIS), though officially neutral on the merits of Der Wienerplan, are crying in their coffee (http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1200632/the-jcpoa-and-the-broader-conclusion/) over the draft resolution. Here is wishing them a speedy transition into the final phase of the grieving process: acceptance. The “Possible Military Dimensions” file is closed.Closure of the file, however, has not brought emotional closure. Iran didn’t confess to a pre-2003 weapons program, though the evidence assembled by the IAEA should convince all but the most hardened Internet troll that Iran was working to build a bomb before 2003. Not that Tehran would ever confess such a thing. As I have argued before, a confession wouldn’t have improved the IAEA’s understanding of Iran’s past efforts to build a bomb, but it would have been used by those who wanted to undermine the agreement (http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/09/15/we-dont-want-to-see-irans-full-monty/). I call this the cookie problem (http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/207188/japans-pu-and-the-cookie-problem/): “Drawing attention to something unwelcome often overwhelms any credit you get for taking steps to address that problem. Even if other people are objectively better off, you will only suffer for bringing it up.”.....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 12, 2015, 10:28:09 AM

 :ROFL:


I will have to assume that you are angrily and intentionally misstating  the fine print regarding ballistic missiles....If Iran was in obvious breach the deal would be off...yet it moves forward UNANIMOUSLY!   There really is no way around it...you are entirely wrong and perhaps willfully ignorant.   All the huffing and puffing doesn't make a bit of difference.  Iran has no nukes and the deal insures they won't anytime soon...you are merely furious that that events are proving you wrong, and you don't get to see bombs fall on a people you obviously loath. 

Perhaps you should browse around Victoria Secret. Your brain is cold.

Ballistic and Intercontinental Delivery Systems were never mentioned, covered or are any part of the agreement/negotiations.

The discussion is about two different understandings/resolutions.

Please try to stay current because you seems like you are riding an ass facing backwards.

You must be addressing me, although frustrated guy, extremely eager for world war was the fine fellow who brought up ballistic missiles...right here


Anything else?   Enjoy Victoria Secret solo on your donkey!

Resolution 2231 (2015)
Adopted by the Security Council at its 7488th meeting, on
20 July 2015

1. Endorses the JCPOA, and urges its full implementation on the timetable established in the JCPOA;

2. Calls upon all Members States, regional organizations and international organizations to take such actions as may be appropriate to support the implementation of the JCPOA, including by taking actions commensurate with the implementation plan set out in the JCPOA and this resolution and by refraining from actions that undermine implementation of commitments under the JCPOA;

3. Requests the Director General of the IAEA to undertake the necessary verification and monitoring of Iran’s nuclear-related commitments for the full duration of those commitments under the JCPOA, and reaffirms that Iran shall cooperate fully as the IAEA requests to be able to resolve all outstanding issues, as identified in IAEA reports;

..."Annex B: Statement

..."Statement
China, France, Germany, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, the United States, and the European Union have concluded with Iran a Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) to reach a comprehensive, long-term and proper solution to the Iranian nuclear issue. To improve transparency and create an atmosphere conducive to the full implementation of the JCPOA, China, France, Germany, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, the United States, and the European Union have set forth below certain provisions.  Their participation in the JCPOA is contingent upon the United Nations Security Council adopting a new resolution that would, acting under Article 41 of the UN Charter: terminate resolutions 1696 (2006), 1737 (2006), 1747 (2007), 1803 (2008), 1835 (2008), 1929 (2010), and 2224 (2015); require States to comply with the provisions in this statement for their respective durations; and facilitate, in cooperation with the Joint Commission established in the JCPOA, implementation of the JCPOA as provided in paragraphs 2 and 6(a) below."...

..."As provided by a resolution so deciding, the following provisions would apply on the date on which the IAEA Director General submits a report verifying that Iran has taken the actions specified in paragraph 15.1-15.11 of Annex V of the JCPOA:"...

..."This paragraph shall apply until the date ten years after JCPOA Adoption Day, as defined in the JCPOA, except if the IAEA submits a report confirming the Broader Conclusion before that date, then the requirement to obtain approval in advance by the Security Council shall be suspended immediately and, beginning on the date of this suspension, the exceptions provided for in this paragraph shall continue to apply and all States may participate in and permit the activities set forth in this paragraph if they notify the Security Council and the Joint Commission at least ten working days in advance of each such activity on a case-by-case basis.

3. Iran is called upon not to undertake any activity related to ballistic missiles designed to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, including launches using such ballistic missile technology, until the date eight years after the JCPOA Adoption Day or until the date on which the IAEA submits a report confirming the Broader Conclusion, whichever is earlier."...

http://www.un.org/en/sc/inc/pages/pdf/pow/RES2231E.pdf

I can't make it any more simple or conclusive than the JCPOA (contained in the link) and the resulting UN Resolution (the UN being) on who's behalf and authority the P5+1 were negotiating under in the first place.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 12, 2015, 10:59:41 AM
Here is a balanced article discussing the Iran deal!  Makes a lot of sense on how to move forward, and discusses those few that attempt to use or say ANYTHING to recklessly TRY to torpedo the deal.   



http://news.yahoo.com/iran-building-nuclear-bomb-165142436.html
 (http://news.yahoo.com/iran-building-nuclear-bomb-165142436.html)


Iran Was Building a Nuclear Bomb, So What?
.....Others, too, are unhappy. My friends at the Institute for Science and International Security (aka The Good ISIS), though officially neutral on the merits of Der Wienerplan, are crying in their coffee (http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1200632/the-jcpoa-and-the-broader-conclusion/) over the draft resolution. Here is wishing them a speedy transition into the final phase of the grieving process: acceptance. The “Possible Military Dimensions” file is closed.Closure of the file, however, has not brought emotional closure. Iran didn’t confess to a pre-2003 weapons program, though the evidence assembled by the IAEA should convince all but the most hardened Internet troll that Iran was working to build a bomb before 2003. Not that Tehran would ever confess such a thing. As I have argued before, a confession wouldn’t have improved the IAEA’s understanding of Iran’s past efforts to build a bomb, but it would have been used by those who wanted to undermine the agreement (http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/09/15/we-dont-want-to-see-irans-full-monty/). I call this the cookie problem (http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/207188/japans-pu-and-the-cookie-problem/): “Drawing attention to something unwelcome often overwhelms any credit you get for taking steps to address that problem. Even if other people are objectively better off, you will only suffer for bringing it up.”.....

This Jeffrey Lewis who writes articles like this?...

It’s a Damn Good Deal

..."Don't listen to the inevitable naysayers right now — there's a decade of juicy "leaks" about Iranian malfeasance to come."...

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/14/its-a-damn-good-deal-iran-nuclear-agreement-joint-comprehensive-plan-of-action/

Yeah, that's "a balanced article discussing the Iran deal!" , alright...Another op-ed from a rabid pro Obama sellout propagandist.  :rolleyes:

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on December 12, 2015, 01:03:26 PM
..Another op-ed from a rabid pro Obama sellout propagandist.  :rolleyes:

 

Around halfway [3:00] this video gets pretty scary..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT9K2shh3qk
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2015, 02:45:41 AM
That Russia’s “financial assistance” package came six days later was no coincidence. It wasn’t $3 billion dollars of “assistance” that was offered, in fact it was $15 billion. And a 1/3 reduction in the price of gas. This was an attempt to buy an end to Maidan. It was so huge that there was no way the ordinary men and women on Maidan could fight against it. The mood was glum while the people and the politicians struggled to find an adequate response and Yanukovych was already calculating how much he could steal and Putin really didn’t care.

What was not known at that time though was that in structuring this bribe, sorry, debt instrument between two sovereign nations, they’d been a little bit too clever. And, fortunately, they’d also agreed that any disputes would be referred to an English court.

There’s a provision in the agreement that there could be no set off, essentially, this means that Ukraine cannot refuse to pay this debt by offsetting it against some other debt that Russia might owe to Ukraine. We have to ask, how and why might Russia end up indebted to Ukraine? What considerations were being factored in for this unusual clause to be included? The net flow of cash for all of Ukraine’s independence has always been the other way, largely (but not only) because of gas purchases.

It is perfectly normal that Russia says that they are suing over an unpaid $3 billion debt, what else are they going to do? Let’s see how the appearance of this strange provision in the agreement can be explained, in an English court, as anything other than a tacit admission that there were plans to seize Crimea or other Ukrainian lands and that those plans were considered seriously enough to warrant this no offset provision as early as 17th of December 2013.

See you in court, Russia


Russia’s finance minister penned a brief opinion piece for the Financial Times a few days ago. Topic: the Ukrainian $3 billion Eurobond debt that his country holds.

At around the same time, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev expressed his opinion that Ukraine will not pay this money back because the Ukrainians are “swindlers”- to use his words.

Russian President Vladimir Putin hasn’t commented on this matter, probably because he has been too busy preparing for his speech of gratitude for 10 years of loyal and valuable service from the nice people over at RT.

Some commentators have suggested that Kyiv should not repay this money, not least in part as compensation for the damages caused by Russia’s temporary occupation of Crimea. I disagree, I think matters should be compartmentalized, Crimea is Crimea and that matter must be dealt with in an appropriate forum and through necessary channels, conflating the question of Crimea with this debt or any other matter doesn’t help to see things for what they are. Russia’s annexation of Ukrainian territory was an illegal act of military aggression, the “referendum” that followed had neither legitimacy nor credibility, and the announced results were obviously an insult to intelligence. Let’s not cloud those basics of that matter with anything at all.

There’s also a suggestion that the $3 billion shouldn’t be repaid and this sum should instead be treated as reparations for the damage caused by the unprovoked war in the east of Ukraine. It’s not hard to see why some would argue that perspective. For certain though, $3 billion is nowhere near enough for the rebuilding costs, let alone compensation. Again though, I disagree with this course of action.
http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/paul-niland-see-you-in-court-russia-404070.html


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on December 13, 2015, 10:52:54 AM
Around halfway [3:00] this video gets pretty scary..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT9K2shh3qk

Thanks for this, tfcrew.

He presents a valid argument. From the comments section this vid is an addendum to a report/documentary (2016) I'm going to watch when I can find the time.

D'Souza touches on Obama's politics being shaped by his father. Seven years ago I presented a similar argument and I think when the Obama presidency is finished this very much over looked aspect of what influenced Obama's decision making process as it related to foreign policy will be examined more closely.

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2015, 03:44:07 PM
The predictions made some time ago are getting closer everyday now. Russia continues to try and bluff ( in how many different areas are they doing that?) it;s way past problems as it gambles for time. 2  years ago it was clear that Russian cash reserves were no where near what was claimed- and now almost exhausted.
 While the collapse of the rouble has masked the depth of the economic problems and the extent of the recession( also predicted a long time ago!!)  that will not apply for much longer.
 Putin is desperate to get sanctions lifted( you  all know about the sanctions--the ones that were not going to affect Russia-right !! LoL)
The irony is that Putin does not want to concede anything-he still thinks he can go on thumbing his nose at the world. Funnily enough-- all Russia needs to do to re-join the world is get out of Ukraine-all of Ukraine and stop Russia's ridiculous posturing-- and become a decent world citizen- and they would be welcomed.How long will it take for the Russian people to wake up?
  Below is interesting assessment of immediate future -- and another miscalculation by Russia.


Russia plans $40 a barrel oil for next seven years as Saudi showdown intensifies

'We will live in a different reality,' said a top Kremlin official. The message is aimed squarely at Saudi Arabia in a war for market share

 
Russia is battening down the hatches for a Biblical collapse in oil revenues, warning that crude prices could stay as low as $40 a barrel for another seven years.
Maxim Oreshkin, the deputy finance minister, said the country is drawing up plans based on a price band fluctuating between $40 to $60 as far out as 2022, a scenario that would have devastating implications for Opec.
It would also spell disaster for the North Sea producers, Brazil’s off-shore projects, and heavily indebted Western producers. “We will live in a different reality,” he told a breakfast forum hosted by Russian newspaper Vedomosti.
The cold blast from Moscow came as US crude plunged to $35.56, pummelled by continuing fall-out from the acrimonious Organisaton of Petrol Exporting Countries meeting last week. Record short positions by hedge funds have amplified the effect.
Bank of America said there was now the risk of “full-blown price war” within Opec itself as Saudi Arabia and Iran fight out a bitter strategic rivalry through the oil market.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12046185/russia-opec-saudi-arabia-bluff-40-oil-price.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on December 13, 2015, 04:28:44 PM

Russia is battening down the hatches for a Biblical collapse in oil revenues, warning that crude prices could stay as low as $40 a barrel for another seven years.

And what happens when the alternative energy solutions begin to hit the market in the next 10 years?

http://www.sciencealert.com/german-has-just-successfully-fired-up-a-revolutionary-nuclear-fusion-machine (http://www.sciencealert.com/german-has-just-successfully-fired-up-a-revolutionary-nuclear-fusion-machine)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 13, 2015, 05:14:38 PM
And what happens when the alternative energy solutions begin to hit the market in the next 10 years?

http://www.sciencealert.com/german-has-just-successfully-fired-up-a-revolutionary-nuclear-fusion-machine (http://www.sciencealert.com/german-has-just-successfully-fired-up-a-revolutionary-nuclear-fusion-machine)

Ongoing developments highlight how much damage the Russian kleptocracy has done and is doing to Russia. Governments need to manage the good times to ease the pain of not so good times and develop economies in a more rounded sense.
The Russian people at large are going to be the big losers for a long time into the future and will pay the price for allowing the assets of Russia to be stolen by the few.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on December 15, 2015, 12:22:28 PM
And what happens when the alternative energy solutions begin to hit the market in the next 10 years?

http://www.sciencealert.com/german-has-just-successfully-fired-up-a-revolutionary-nuclear-fusion-machine (http://www.sciencealert.com/german-has-just-successfully-fired-up-a-revolutionary-nuclear-fusion-machine)

I think that the unicorn farts, rainbow mists and fairy dust have been in the news
since I was a teenage boy reading Popular Science. Even if a revolutionary nuclear
fusion machine became reality the environmentalists wouldn't allow one to be built
in the USA. It wouldn't scale. You would have to build thousands of them to replace
even a small percentage of carbons and the environmentalists would battle to the
death on every single one of them, thousands and thousands of times.




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on December 15, 2015, 12:30:38 PM
Russian cruise missile hits flats in Arctic village by accident

(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/A098/production/_87221114_cruisemilru.jpg)

(http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/12/15/436008/default/v2/missile-1-736x414.jpg)



Here are several articles you can read about it
http://news.sky.com/story/1606459/cruise-missile-hits-russian-village-by-mistake

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3361212/Russian-cruise-missile-flies-target-smashes-apartment-block-village.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35106935
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on December 15, 2015, 06:36:33 PM
On this website not only was 30 dollar oil wrongfully predicted, but also 20 dollar oil was also wrongfully predicted.  To this point, 40 dollar oil is where it has leveled off at, and 30 dollar oil would require another 25% drop.

Don't worry, it will be here soon...

"Everything indicates that low oil prices are likely to dominate next year. And it is possible that at some periods [the oil price] will be $30 per barrel," Siluanov was quoted as saying by Russian state-run news agencies.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/14/news/economy/russia-30-oil-budget/ (http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/14/news/economy/russia-30-oil-budget/)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on December 15, 2015, 07:01:19 PM
I think that the unicorn farts, rainbow mists and fairy dust have been in the news
since I was a teenage boy reading Popular Science. Even if a revolutionary nuclear
fusion machine became reality the environmentalists wouldn't allow one to be built
in the USA. It wouldn't scale. You would have to build thousands of them to replace
even a small percentage of carbons and the environmentalists would battle to the
death on every single one of them, thousands and thousands of times.

Well, the technology is not new and should the reactor fail to run off unicorn farts there are other alternatives that are fast being adopted and researched. Costa Rica is now carbon neutral and a number of other countries on it's heels. None of it from new technology really. I can imagine the latest fiasco with Russia is not slowing down R&D in this area.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 15, 2015, 08:46:44 PM
Don't worry, it will be here soon...

"Everything indicates that low oil prices are likely to dominate next year. And it is possible that at some periods [the oil price] will be $30 per barrel," Siluanov was quoted as saying by Russian state-run news agencies.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/14/news/economy/russia-30-oil-budget/ (http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/14/news/economy/russia-30-oil-budget/)
$36.88 at the moment....still a way off of 30...but yeah it has been getting closer....been reading the 30 and 20 dollar predictions for over a year now. Even read here that Russia would collapse at 40 dollar oil, but that didn't happen. That said, oil is low and that is mostly good for me personally, and not good for Russia and other large oil producers. The glut hasn't been coupled with a serious recession here in the states yet, and hopefully won't be.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 16, 2015, 01:35:48 AM
Quote
To this point, 40 dollar oil is where it has leveled off at, and 30 dollar oil would require another 25% drop.

FT, you are right on track with your $30 prediction.

Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov says that, "Everything indicates that low oil prices are likely to fall next year. And it is possible that it will be $30 per barrel." (TASS)

Yesterday President Putin signed into law the budget passed for 2016. As reserves are almost depleted, the 2016 budget will end in a deficit of around $35 Billion (USD). We should note that the budget assumes a rosy $50 per barrel price, otherwise the deficit will be much deeper.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 16, 2015, 07:38:45 AM
Crude prices dip after recent gains as Fed decision looms – Reuters


Crude oil fell in Asian trade on Wednesday, snapping gains that pulled prices back from testing 11-year lows, as investors awaited the outcome of a Federal Reserve meeting, where interest rates are likely to be raised, according to Reuters.

West Texas Intermediate CLc1 fell 45 cents to $36.90 a barrel by 07:37 GMT after rising more than $1 on Tuesday. It fell to $34.53 on Monday, the lowest since the financial crisis bottom of $32.40, before ending the day higher, Reuters wrote.

Brent LCOc1 was down 47 cents at $37.98. The contract settled up 53 cents at $38.45 a barrel on Tuesday, closing higher for the first in eight days.

On Monday, the global oil benchmark came within 14 cents of a December 2008 bottom of $36.20, unleashing a surge of buying.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/economics/1213675-crude-prices-dip-after-recent-gains-as-fed-decision-looms-reuters.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2015, 07:47:46 AM
FT, you are right on track with your $30 prediction.

Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov says that, "Everything indicates that low oil prices are likely to fall next year. And it is possible that it will be $30 per barrel." (TASS)

Yesterday President Putin signed into law the budget passed for 2016. As reserves are almost depleted, the 2016 budget will end in a deficit of around $35 Billion (USD). We should note that the budget assumes a rosy $50 per barrel price, otherwise the deficit will be much deeper.


Hmmm....but I didn't predict 30 dollar oil.  Despite some expert predictions, and it's closer proximity now, I still have a hard time believing it will go so low.  Possible yes, perhaps briefly, but who knows... As far as the 20 dollar predictions, I don't think so...but again if the economy dives anything is possible.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 16, 2015, 11:08:48 AM
FINALLY some sort of almost good news, (after a fashion)  :rolleyes:

Putin Raises Minimum Wage to $87 Starting Jan. 1
The Moscow Times

President Vladimir Putin has signed a decree setting the minimum wage in Russia at 6,204 rubles ($87) a month beginning Jan.1, 2016, according to a document published Tuesday on the government's legal information website.

In 2015, the official minimum salary that employers in Russia could legally pay their workers stood at 5,965 rubles($84). Therefore, the minimum wage is set to rise by 4 percent from Jan. 1 of next year.

As of September, the average monthly wage in Russia is 32,911 rubles ($463), according to data released by the Rosstat state statistics service.

According to the estimates of consulting firm Korn Ferry — Hay Group, Russian companies will increase salaries for their employees on average by 7 percent in 2016, the RBC newspaper reported earlier this month.

However, the inflation rate in Russia is expected to stand at 14,6 percent next year, which means that the real wages will fall by 7.5 percent, the report said.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/putin-raises-minimum-wage-to-87-starting-jan-1/552867.html


 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2015, 08:55:34 PM

Putin Raises Minimum Wage to $87 Starting Jan. 1
 


I've read here that Russian women are rather choosy compared to how they once were..BUT if their  minimum wage is actually 87 a month...that is less than 1/2 of what it is in Colombia...where it is around 200 dollars at the current exchange rate.   I would think that money means a  lot in Russia, even a guy on social security can be making over 25 times minimum wage if he were living in Russia...I would think options for him would be a plenty.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 17, 2015, 03:08:22 AM
FT, your thoughts expressed above are completely logical in a normal world. However, the prevailing mood is swinging so anti-Western that many fear what might happen to loved ones left behind. My wife recently mused about whether or not there will be travel restrictions before long, and she worries about those who have homes and assets outside Russia.

Add to this a strong nationalist mentality that is gripping the nation. We are seeing the beginning to attitudes that consider it as dangerous to have family and friends in the West. How far will this go? I do not know, but I know that young Russian girls today have a lot more to weigh that simply a better life for themselves when considering marriage options.

Years ago a young person wanted to marry someone in the right position, with Communist party connections, etc. That also meant having to know who you could not afford to marry. The Communist party no longer holds that esteem, but the idea is being co-opted by nationalism.  I am staring it in the face every day.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on December 17, 2015, 03:59:06 AM
I am staring it in the face every day.

Time to eject?...pull the plug?...hit the road? Common sense and regard for one's (and for his family's) safety, hopefully, will guide you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on December 17, 2015, 10:05:58 AM

I've read here that Russian women are rather choosy compared to how they once were..BUT if their  minimum wage is actually 87 a month...that is less than 1/2 of what it is in Colombia...where it is around 200 dollars at the current exchange rate.   I would think that money means a  lot in Russia, even a guy on social security can be making over 25 times minimum wage if he were living in Russia...I would think options for him would be a plenty.


Fathertime!

You are assuming that there are marriage minded women who make minimum wage.
Nobody makes minimum wage. Those wages are reserved for students, foreigners and
such just like in the USA.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on December 17, 2015, 10:26:46 AM
No knowledge is gained by comparing salaries in two or more countries, even when converted to dollars.

The only meaningful measure is purchasing power parity.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on December 17, 2015, 10:43:13 AM
Time to eject?...pull the plug?...hit the road? Common sense and regard for one's (and for his family's) safety, hopefully, will guide you.

In my little part of Russia (Novocherkassk) people still treat me very well and I've yet to experience any anti-American or anti-West backlash.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on December 17, 2015, 10:47:42 AM
No knowledge is gained by comparing salaries in two or more countries, even when converted to dollars.

The only meaningful measure is purchasing power parity.

True, and I have to keep reminding myself of that. Otherwise, my ruble-denominated salary would make me very depressed :(
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2015, 03:12:58 PM
FT, your thoughts expressed above are completely logical in a normal world. However, the prevailing mood is swinging so anti-Western that many fear what might happen to loved ones left behind. My wife recently mused about whether or not there will be travel restrictions before long, and she worries about those who have homes and assets outside Russia.

 


Thanks...sounds like some of the RUssian women won't take a US man then regardless of his income/looks.


You are assuming that there are marriage minded women who make minimum wage.
Nobody makes minimum wage. Those wages are reserved for students, foreigners and
such just like in the USA.


Yes I was assuming some of the ladies would be making minimum wage, which could easily be incorrect...what would you say most young ladies are making then?


No knowledge is gained by comparing salaries in two or more countries, even when converted to dollars.

The only meaningful measure is purchasing power parity.


Hmmmm, but ML if a guy is making a lot of money in dollars, I'm assuming that translates into even more money in Russia....a lot more  But based on what I'm reading, it sounds like the 87 dollar minimum wage purchases enough for people to live on in Russia.


Fathertime!   





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on December 17, 2015, 03:45:29 PM
The question ...Why does Iran need a ballistic missile if not to deliver a WMD?



Quote
Iran missile test sparks concern over nuclear deal implementation
Thu December 17, 2015
Washington (CNN)Iran is once again testing the international community.A United Nations panel announced this week that Iran violated a U.N. Security Council resolution when it tested a ballistic missile capable of carrying a nuclear warhead in October.
Coming just months before the international community prepares to implement the landmark nuclear deal brokered between Iran, the U.S. and five other world powers this summer, the Iranian missile test is raising questions about Iran's commitment to international protocols and the ability -- and will -- of the U.S. and the international community to enforce the terms of the controversial nuclear accord.
The response from the international community, so far, has been a tepid one, sowing some doubt about its ability to agree on what would constitute a violation of the nuclear deal and which violations should be punished.
Russia and China were quick to cast doubt Tuesday on the findings announced Tuesday by the U.N. Security Council's Panel of Experts that Iran's October test of its medium-range Emad rocket constituted a violation of Security Council resolution 1929. The resolution prohibits Iran from testing ballistic missiles capable of delivering a nuclear weapon.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/17/politics/iran-missile-test-un-resolution-violation/index.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 17, 2015, 09:52:06 PM
The question ...Why does Iran need a ballistic missile if not to deliver a WMD?



http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/17/politics/iran-missile-test-un-resolution-violation/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/17/politics/iran-missile-test-un-resolution-violation/index.html)
I don't think that is the right question. A better question would be why can't they have ballistic missiles?


Almost every country in the Middle East has them, and the only nuclear nation is Israel. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on December 18, 2015, 02:57:20 PM
A better question would be why can't they have ballistic missiles?

Fathertime refers to Iran in the above, but it shows I think to just about everyone reading this thread his . . . . . . . .

I will let the posters in general fill in there nouns perhaps with adjectives.

None of mine are complimentary.

Next week is Western Christmas, perhaps you should reflect on the Prince of Peace. You could also read Isaiah 2:4
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 18, 2015, 03:31:05 PM
Fathertime refers to Iran in the above, but it shows I think to just about everyone reading this thread his . . . . . . . .

I will let the posters in general fill in there nouns perhaps with adjectives.

None of mine are complimentary.

Next week is Western Christmas, perhaps you should reflect on the Prince of Peace. You could also read Isaiah 2:4


What a cowardly post.  You tremble to say whatever it was you wanted to say, but want others to fill in the blank. :rolleyes:


My question and statement remain, if practically all the other countries surrounding Iran have ballistic missiles, the relevant question is; why should Iran not also have them.  Despite your anger about it, they should and obviously will. 


Considering what you seem to stand for, it is hypocritical for you to bring bible passages into the discussion...you are not the only hypocritical bible thumper though.   :o


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 18, 2015, 08:00:45 PM

Iran nuclear deal: Implementation nears, but the sparring continues

Iran is moving faster than expected, the US says, raising the possibility of sanctions relief in January. But hard-line rhetoric persists on both sides.


.......US officials say Iran is moving faster than expected to dismantle key elements of its nuclear program, and Secretary of State John Kerry wrote to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday that Iran was taking steps in a “verifiable” way, and that “suspension of sanctions … is appropriate.”


That may mean first easing sanctions in January, much earlier than initial predictions of middle to late spring.........


http://news.yahoo.com/iran-nuclear-deal-implementation-nears-sparring-continues-165606870.html;_ylt=A0SO8z_FxXRWdGUAJFFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyNGcyMXY0BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjAxMjJfMQRzZWMDc2M- (http://news.yahoo.com/iran-nuclear-deal-implementation-nears-sparring-continues-165606870.html;_ylt=A0SO8z_FxXRWdGUAJFFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyNGcyMXY0BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjAxMjJfMQRzZWMDc2M-)


All this genuine progress,  occurring despite the caterwauling from the likes of Bdhva...and the bomb first mob.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on December 19, 2015, 09:12:16 PM
I don't think that is the right question. A better question would be why can't they have ballistic missiles?


Almost every country in the Middle East has them, and the only nuclear nation is Israel. 


 

1...It is a violation of the 'agreement' for Iran to continue w/ICBMs
 2... Actually, not 'almost every'.
Here is a list......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ICBMs
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 20, 2015, 10:10:12 AM

I don't think that is the right question. A better question would be why can't they have ballistic missiles?


Almost every country in the Middle East has them, and the only nuclear nation is Israel. 


Fathertime!

1...It is a violation of the 'agreement' for Iran to continue w/ICBMs
 2... Actually, not 'almost every'.
Here is a list......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ICBMs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ICBMs)


did you notice that I mentioned that most of the nations around Iran had ballistic missiles, and you stuck an "IC"(Intercontinental)  in front of it and referenced a list that I hadn't commented on?   Most of the nations around Iran do in fact have Ballistic missiles, but not ICBM's. Here is a list:
http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/missiles (http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/missiles)




Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 20, 2015, 02:20:50 PM
Angry Russian Businessmen Turn on Kremlin
By Eva Hartog
Dec. 18 2015 10:51


When Russian entrepreneur Dmitry Potapenko exploded in rage at the Moscow Economic Forum he could not have known he would become an Internet sensation.

And yet he is not surprised.

"I did what everyone dreams of doing themselves," he said.

Three businessmen — Potapenko, his neighbor at the forum roundtable, farm boss Pavel Grudinin, and Crimean zoo director Oleg Zubkov — together gathered more than 2 million hits on YouTube with videos of speeches lambasting the authorities. The three work in different branches of business, but are united in their complaints of red tape, corruption and the deaf ear of the political elite to demands for reform.

They also say they are at the end of their tethers.

For much more of the story   CLICK here
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/angry-russian-businessmen-turn-on-kremlin/553051.html


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on December 20, 2015, 02:33:22 PM
Maybe somebody already posted this but why is Russia asking Canada to take down the website if there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine and Syria?

http://news.vice.com/article/a-ukrainian-website-is-outing-russian-soldiers-and-moscow-wants-canada-to-stop-it (http://news.vice.com/article/a-ukrainian-website-is-outing-russian-soldiers-and-moscow-wants-canada-to-stop-it)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 20, 2015, 02:33:55 PM
I wonder how long before these 3 guys disappear or end up in prison.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on December 20, 2015, 03:38:30 PM

Quote from: ML on December 17, 2015, 12:26:46 PM

    No knowledge is gained by comparing salaries in two or more countries, even when converted to dollars.

    The only meaningful measure is purchasing power parity.

= = = = = =

Hmmmm, but ML if a guy is making a lot of money in dollars, I'm assuming that translates into even more money in Russia....a lot more  But based on what I'm reading, it sounds like the 87 dollar minimum wage purchases enough for people to live on in Russia. Fathertime!

Yes, you are understanding me, as your short example shows.

i.e.  It would serve no purpose to look at the $87 in Russia . . . and then think of living in USA on it.

Perhaps possible to live on it in Russia, but not in USA.

So even by referencing dollars in both countries, nothing meaningful can be ascertained.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on December 20, 2015, 04:27:37 PM
Russia's Economy Slows Amid Investment Woes (Op-Ed)
By Sergei Alexashenko Moscow Times

Russia's economy is faring poorly as the New Year approaches. Gross domestic product
has swung back to a level last seen in the first of 2008 and the economy has essentially
stagnated over the last seven years.

The reason for the problem that officials most frequently cite, and that President Vladimir
Putin mentioned in his most recent address to the Federal Assembly, is a combination of
adverse external factors such as the global economic crisis, the drop in oil prices, Western
financial sanctions and the economic slowdown in China. However, economic growth began
slowing significantly as early as 2013. At that time, GDP was growing by only 1.3 percent
annually, while oil prices consistently surpassed $100 per barrel. Even a rise in oil prices
would not solve the economic problems that Russia is currently facing.

There is more read all about it here
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/economy-slows-amid-investment-woes/552348.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on December 20, 2015, 05:44:59 PM


Still..
It is Missiles 101 then Missiles 102

Quote
  • Iran has the largest and most      diverse ballistic missile arsenal in the Middle East. (Israel has more      capable ballistic missiles, but fewer in number and type.) Most were acquired from foreign sources, notably North Korea. The Islamic Republic is the only country to develop a 2,000-km missile without first having a      nuclear weapons capability.
   
  • Iran is still dependent on      foreign suppliers for key ingredients, components and equipment, but it should      eventually be able to develop long-range missiles over time, including an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile or ICBM.

http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-ballistic-missile-program
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 20, 2015, 06:37:39 PM
Yes, you are understanding me, as your short example shows.

i.e.  It would serve no purpose to look at the $87 in Russia . . . and then think of living in USA on it.

Perhaps possible to live on it in Russia, but not in USA.

So even by referencing dollars in both countries, nothing meaningful can be ascertained.


Yes, my point was never to attempt to ascertain what 87 dollars a month was worth here in the USA...it isn't even enough to rent an outhouse....but the point I was making is a rather normal guy getting 2500 on SS and living in Russia must have a lot of options due to his money compared to the wages many workers get in Russia.   If indeed people can live on 87 dollars a month in Russia or even for argument's sake 200 a month...than 2500 I am guessing would enable a person to afford quite a few luxuries...


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 20, 2015, 06:42:01 PM

Still..
It is Missiles 101 then Missiles 102

http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-ballistic-missile-program (http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-ballistic-missile-program)


Thanks for the link, I believe the earlier point still stands...many of the nations around Iran do have ballistic missiles...Iran also does, and should.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on December 20, 2015, 06:56:15 PM
The income and cost of living in the FSU has always perplexed me. To say that a Westerner can live well and has options with $2500 a month is a bit misleading from what I am told. The cost of luxuries is higher over there than in the West. A health club may run $100 per month versus $28 here, or a car is 30% more, or imported clothing is x times more.

Yes, some people make $80 or $200 a month, we know people who make that much per month. But I also know that my wife's girlfriends are married to men who make 4-6k per month and are considered "average" wage earners. They just have to hussle to earn that type of income. Work on a boat for 3-6 months at a time, or work as a truck driver leaving the country for short stints then to return home. Or side jobs under the table, etc

Would be interesting to hear the experiences of those that live there currently....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 20, 2015, 07:36:43 PM
The income and cost of living in the FSU has always perplexed me. To say that a Westerner can live well and has options with $2500 a month is a bit misleading from what I am told. The cost of luxuries is higher over there than in the West. A health club may run $100 per month versus $28 here, or a car is 30% more, or imported clothing is x times more.

Yes, some people make $80 or $200 a month, we know people who make that much per month. But I also know that my wife's girlfriends are married to men who make 4-6k per month and are considered "average" wage earners. They just have to hussle to earn that type of income. Work on a boat for 3-6 months at a time, or work as a truck driver leaving the country for short stints then to return home. Or side jobs under the table, etc

Would be interesting to hear the experiences of those that live there currently....


It would be interesting to hear....from what I've ascertained from friends living in Colombia (where the minimum wage is 200 or so), 3,000USD will afford a man a very good lifestyle...assuming he doesn't go too overboard. Being that Russia's minimum wage is currently less than 1/2 of that, it makes some sense that the situation is similar....but maybe not...so the question is out there.




Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on December 20, 2015, 09:27:26 PM
The US is forging ahead with LNG exports.

"including the monster, mile-deep Marcellus basin, which alone produces 113 billion cubic meters (bcm) a year, the same as Russia's exports to Europe through three pipelines"

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/Undeterred-By-Global-Glut-US-Pushes-Ahead-On-LNG-Exports.html (http://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/Undeterred-By-Global-Glut-US-Pushes-Ahead-On-LNG-Exports.html)

And the alternative energy tax incentives in the US extended another five years...

"The extension will add an extra 20 gigawatts of solar power—more than every panel ever installed in the U.S. prior to 2015"

http://richarddawkins.net/2015/12/what-just-happened-in-solar-is-a-bigger-deal-than-oil-exports/ (http://richarddawkins.net/2015/12/what-just-happened-in-solar-is-a-bigger-deal-than-oil-exports/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on December 20, 2015, 10:51:31 PM
  Iran also does [have ballistic missiles], and should.

 

I believe that Iran is hostile to the United States and our ally Israel.
Because of such, I wouldn't care if the Iranians were armed with no more than slingshots.

Why are you so interested in their having any advanced weaponry?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 20, 2015, 10:57:39 PM
I truly hope you are kidding.   If not, your picker is broken!      ;D

You only need to see his historic posts to see he is not kidding. Ukrainian lady handed his arse to him on a plate! Of course-- maybe if he actually looked at himself he would see why anyone would be unhappy meeting him !! ( "Unhappy women are the only kind I've ever met"--- his words btw)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 21, 2015, 06:57:08 AM
I believe that Iran is hostile to the United States and our ally Israel.
Because of such, I wouldn't care if the Iranians were armed with no more than slingshots.

Why are you so interested in their having any advanced weaponry?


...because I believe the situation is solvable.  in addition, I believe we have on the wrong side of things most of the way through our interference in Iran's internal affairs.  Generally I like when nations can defend themselves, and bully nations are unable to proceed as easily. In this case Iran has been able to strike a fair deal to halt most if not all aspects of their nuclear program that we are concerned with.  They have shown they have some negotiating power.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 21, 2015, 03:22:36 PM

. Thought a little about a pretty high-end apartment in Crimea, but my wife is skeptical (she’s Crimean). Says it’s too criminal and too different (to live grand) to the big masses living in poverty (unless you’re a criminal).

That her relatives experienced their property just being stolen in Moscow, just add to the feeling of it being too high risk of being invested in Russia. Even though I’m a fan of Russia, I’m still aware of the three big problems there; crime, corruption and beaucrocracy.

 where the political situation is stable? Any ideas?

Anyone else laughing at this guy as hard as I am?
Everything  I ever called you-- was all accurate!

Here is some pro-Rus promoter excuse maker recognising the fact of the Russian kleptocracy  and still says he ädmires it!

I would say go live in it--you deserve it.
BTW-- show me how you could afford a "high end"Crimean apartment  !! :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 23, 2015, 12:45:18 PM
Social Well-being Indexes of Russians Fall Because of Economic Crisis
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/social-well-being-indexes-of-russians-fall-because-of-economic-crisis--poll/553669.html

Apartment Prices in Moscow Down 15 Percent in 2015
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/apartment-prices-in-moscow-down-15-percent-in-2015/553668.html

FSB Allowed to Shoot at Crowds to Prevent Terrorism Acts — Duma
The amendments also allow FSB officers to shoot at women, children and disabled people in cases of a terror act or armed attack on civilians and law enforcers.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/fsb-allowed-to-shoot-at-crowds-to-prevent-terrorism-acts--duma/553605.html

U.S. Energy Producer ConocoPhillips Quits Russia After 25 Years
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/business/article/us-energy-producer-conocophillips-quits-russia-after-25-years/553588.html

Brent Oil Prices Dip to Lowest in 11 Years
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/business/article/brent-oil-prices-dip-to-lowest-in-11-years/553439.html

Russia Lays Off One In Every 10 Civil Servants in 2016  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
http://europe.newsweek.com/xxx-medvedev-job-cuts-408174?rm=eu

And this is after the mass layoffs in 2015!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Hopefully it'll include the Ukrainian invaders also! Huilomeisters rep is slipping on the home front.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Noch1 on December 23, 2015, 04:19:45 PM
Ade, apparently this is really common in Russia and she doesn't traumatize the boy,
I don't need or want your advice. Some day you might come here without dispensing
an unwanted know it all post. 

Udachi!

Bill
Bill you been drinking? you really think he might post something useful ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on December 23, 2015, 04:44:15 PM

BTW-- show me how you could afford a "high end"Crimean apartment  !! :ROFL:

Hey . . . when did we institute a requirement for Balance Sheet disclosure ?

Must they be audited ?  By Big Four firm, I presume.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 25, 2015, 11:19:37 AM
Deutsche Bank Moscow Laundering Probe Tallies $10 Billion
The Moscow Times
Dec. 22 2015 17:15

German banking giant Deutsche Bank has found new suspicious transactions related to its operations in Russia worth $4 billion, Bloomberg reported Tuesday, citing several unidentified sources close to the results of the investigation.

Earlier this year, Deutsche Bank started a probe into $6 billion “mirror trades” involving its Russian clients. Therefore, the total of suspicious transactions identified by the bank reached $10 billion.

The so-called “mirror” transactions helped Russian clients move large amounts of money out of the country by buying securities in rubles through the Deutsche Bank in Moscow while the securities for the same amounts were bought by the bank in London in dollars and euros.

In July, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), Britain's financial watchdog, and the New York State Department of Financial Services launched an investigation into Deutsche Bank for possible money laundering in Russia.

Close associates of President Vladimir Putin, including a relative and his longtime friends, billionaire Arkady Rotenberg and his brother Boris, could benefit from the “mirror” trades, Bloomberg reported in October. Rotenberg spokesman Andrei Baturin denied any involvement of the brothers in such transactions.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/deutsche-bank-moscow-laundering-probe-tallies-10-billion/553520.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 25, 2015, 02:20:07 PM
Kyrgyz Leader Says Russia Can't Finance Two Big Power Projects


Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambaev said Russia would no longer be able to finance two previously agreed upon hydroelectric power projects in Kyrgyzstan.

Atambaev's announcement on December 24 highlighted the decline of Russia's economic power as a result of the collapse of oil prices and western economic sanctions. Its financial difficulties are prompting close allies and neighbors to turn to China and private investors for financing.

Atambaev said Kyrgyzstan would seek new partners for two power projects on the Naryn river and Upper Naryn Cascade. The projects are estimated to be worth over $3.2 billion.

"Russia's economy is not on the rise and the oil price trend is negative," he told a news briefing, adding that he had discussed the issue with Russian President Vladimir Putin during a visit to Moscow earlier this week.

"The reality is such that today, unfortunately, our Russian friends will not be able to implement these projects... And this is going to be the case for a long time."

Kremlin spokesman Dimtry Peskov confirmed that there are "difficulties" with financing but it was premature to say Russia was pulling out of the projects.
http://www.rferl.org/content/kyrgyz-leader-says-russia-cant-finance-two-big-power-projects/27448434.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 25, 2015, 11:53:25 PM
"AvtoVAZ", largest Russian carmaker, has ceased to exist.
Experts assembled the last car in the company's history, a five-door LADA 4 × 4, on December 22.
The production personel not being paid for months refused to work.
Turkish subcontractors had stopped to supply AVtoVaz after the unpaid bills had reached an unbearable level.
The president of the company declared bankrupcy.
The ownership of the factory will be transfered to the mayoral council of Togliatti.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 27, 2015, 10:27:05 AM
"AvtoVAZ", largest Russian carmaker, has ceased to exist.


That was inevitable even if the Russian economy had remained strong.   

The Lada was a former Fiat line that long ago became outdated in Italy.   I surmise Fiat sold the manufacturing capability to the CCCP  around 1970 and it was resurrected.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 27, 2015, 12:48:05 PM
That was inevitable even if the Russian economy had remained strong.   

The Lada was a former Fiat line that long ago became outdated in Italy.   I surmise Fiat sold the manufacturing capability to the CCCP  around 1970 and it was resurrected.   

Not sure I follow your logic for this one.  If the Russian economy remained strong the workers could have been paid, the subcontractors for parts could be paid, and there would be money to modernize the plants and create new competitive designs.  What am I missing?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on December 27, 2015, 01:39:21 PM
the Niva's weren't bad for a Russian car, not all Lada's looked like the Lada 1600.  I mean a Russian copy of a cheap Italian car, what could possibly go wrong?  The Lada 1600 was probably most common car in Crimea.  Simferopol also used to have an assembly plant for the Moscovitch but that shut down several years ago.  I bought my father-in-law one before it did, brand new straight from the factory was about $6500.  Kinda reminded me of a Rambler from the 60's.  I drove a Mitsubishi Colt when I lived in Crimea, it was OK...  Driving with Russians was fun! :(
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 27, 2015, 05:08:53 PM
The never ending stories of Russian suppression of dissent.


How My Friend, Vlad Kolesnikov, Was Driven To His Death In Putin's Russia


He didn't answer my calls. My panicked messages never reached him, either. They are still marked as unread. I contacted someone in Russia, who I thought could help.

A few hours later, police confirmed my worst fears: Vlad had passed away, killed by an overdose of prescription drugs. The teen who had been my daily online companion for weeks was now lying dead on the cold slab of some distant Russian morgue.

His name was Vladislav Pavlovich Kolesnikov. He was 18.

As a journalist, I had written about Vlad's troubles before. But when I contacted him again on December 2 to follow up, his answer looked like a cry for help. He seemed desperate and wanted to talk to me about his life. We chatted on Telegram, often several times a day. Most of the time, I just listened.

Vlad asked me to tell his story if anything happened to him. He wanted the world to know about the persecution, the violence, and the crushing isolation that can befall anyone in Russia deemed to be different.

http://www.rferl.mobi/a/how-my-friend-vlad-kolesnikov-was-driven-to-death-in-putin-russia/27451872.html


Russian Youth Pays Price For Speaking Out Over Ukraine

Russian antiwar activist Vlad Kolesnikov
Share
Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Aleksandr Herzen, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Andrei Sakharov. Now, a 17-year-old from a Moscow suburb is joining such notables in the long-standing Russian tradition of being exiled for his political views.

"All the democrats in Russia were sent into exile," teenager Vlad Kolesnikov says, "and I feel like I have been sent into exile."

For some weeks now, Kolesnikov has been leading a quixotic and lonely campaign to protest Russia's annexation of the Ukrainian region of Crimea and Moscow's involvement in the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

Most recently, he wore a T-shirt with a Ukrainian flag and the words "Return Crimea" on it to his school in the Moscow suburb of Podolsk. He tells how a school official met him outside the classroom.

"You know, I will never forget how he looked," Kolesnikov tells RFE/RL's Russian Service. "At first he looked at me like a normal, sane person. But when he saw my shirt, he looked into my face and I saw such hatred!"


[/b][/size]
http://www.rferl.mobi/a/russia-youth-antiwar-ukraine-persecution/27069023.html

The father of the deceased 18-year-old Russian activist Vlad Kolesnikov, who supported Ukraine and opposed the occupation of Crimea by Russia in an interview with "truth Kosmsomolskoy" said he did not believe in the suicide of his son.

http://m.inforesist.org/otets-pogibshego-rossiyskogo-aktivista-otverg-versiyu-o-samoubiystve-syina/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on December 27, 2015, 11:32:13 PM
"AvtoVAZ", largest Russian carmaker, has ceased to exist.
Experts assembled the last car in the company's history, a five-door LADA 4 × 4, on December 22.
The production personel not being paid for months refused to work.
Turkish subcontractors had stopped to supply AVtoVaz after the unpaid bills had reached an unbearable level.
The president of the company declared bankrupcy.
The ownership of the factory will be transfered to the mayoral council of Togliatti.

This would be big news, and it would not be the first time that a company with some association with GM ceases opperation. GM has a enviable track record of screwing the tax payers, the US government and foreign governments, as well as those who drive there vehicles.

But the bankruptcy of AvtoVAZ would be big news and there are no reports in media or on financial news sources about this.

Can you provide any links?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BCKev on December 28, 2015, 12:04:04 AM
This would be big news, and it would not be the first time that a company with some association with GM ceases opperation. GM has a enviable track record of screwing the tax payers, the US government and foreign governments, as well as those who drive there vehicles.

But the bankruptcy of AvtoVAZ would be big news and there are no reports in media or on financial news sources about this.

Can you provide any links?

According to the GM/Avtovaz website, it is merely a shutdown for the holiday season:

"In accordance with the production schedule, winter corporate vacations at GM-AVTOVAZ will stretch from December 24th, 2015, through January 18th, 2016.
During the planned shutdown period, technical maintenance of the equipment and facilities will be held.
January 19th, the JV will re-start operation."


http://gm-avtovaz.ru/en/company/news/winter_corporate_vacations_at_gmavtovaz/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 28, 2015, 10:45:33 PM
Don't worry, it will be here soon...

"Everything indicates that low oil prices are likely to dominate next year. And it is possible that at some periods [the oil price] will be $30 per barrel," Siluanov was quoted as saying by Russian state-run news agencies.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/14/news/economy/russia-30-oil-budget/ (http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/14/news/economy/russia-30-oil-budget/)

Russia's Ex-FinMin Says Putin Wrong On Economy

Contrary to official opinion in Moscow, Russia’s economy has not finished bottoming out, says ex-Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin.

“We are seeing some further deterioration in November economic data,” he told Interfax on Monday. “To me, this means that the situation is unstable. When you add the sharp decline in oil prices…it makes for an unstable environment. If (oil) prices remain at this level for another six months or a year, we will see the continued fall of the Russian economy.”

Last week Russia approved its 2016 budget based on oil prices of $50 per barrel. But oil is already trading below $40 a barrel, suggesting the Russian parliament will have to take another look at the numbers at some point next year.

Russian economic data remained negative in November, for the most part. However, the declines are becoming less sharp than they were a few months ago. Record oil exports for Russia, one of the world’s cheapest producers, are helping produce trade surpluses. But the government is already working on the idea that next year will see more money leaving Russia than coming in.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/12/28/russias-ex-finmin-says-putin-wrong-on-economy/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 30, 2015, 04:38:21 AM
Panic in annexed Crimea: locals rush to ATMs

30.12.2015 | 13:33


Residents of the Russian-occupied Crimea have been spotted in lines to the ATMs to withdraw their money fearing to lose the funds in their accounts because of the debts on loans to Ukrainian banks, according to Novosti Kryma news outlet.

"In 2016, indeed, there will be an opportunity to write off funds from the bank accounts upon court orders, without the consent of the cardholder. However, this does not apply to debts of Crimean residents to the Ukrainian banks, since there have been no such orders yet," the occupied Crimea’s bailiff service reported.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/economics/1226404-panic-in-annexed-crimea-locals-rush-to-atms.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 30, 2015, 09:01:08 AM
Putin earns low grades for managing Russia's economy
30.12.2015

President Vladimir Putin scored an F, the lowest possible, from 27% of respondents in a Bloomberg survey that invited them to assess his management of the economy in crisis.

An additional 50% gave him the next two poorest grades, with a single person saying the Russian leader deserved an A, the highest mark,according to Bloomberg.
The majority of the 22 economists in the poll rated the central bank a B, which was also the most common grade assigned to the Finance Ministry.
"All the economic miseries are amplified by international sanctions which were brought upon Russia by its foreign policy in Ukraine," said Nerijus Maciulis, chief economist at Swedbank AB in Vilnius, Lithuania.
"And the man who presumably orchestrated them deserves only an F," he said.
Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev and the rest of the cabinet were each given a C more often than any of the other grades, according to the survey. Putin, meanwhile, ended with the lowest median mark, and the central bank and the Finance Ministry had the highest.


[/color]http://www.unian.info/economics/1226211-putin-earns-low-grades-for-managing-russias-economy.html#

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 30, 2015, 02:02:23 PM
Russian economy to endure difficult 2016, warns minister.   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

  The recent decline in oil prices has cast a shadow on the recovery of Russia's oil-dependent economy (AFP Photo/Andrey Golovanov)Moscow (AFP) - Russia's finance minister predicted Wednesday that 2016 would be a difficult year for his country's recession-hit economy, already reeling from low oil prices.As the economy slides, Russia's battered ruble reached a 2015 low on Wednesday, standing at 73.24 against the dollar, a year after suffering its worst decline in 15 years."Next year will not be simple," Anton Siluanov said in an interview with Russian state television. "The latest predictions show that the price of our main exports could be lower than predicted.

"The ruble lost around half of its value in 2014 but recovered slightly as energy prices stabilised earlier this year, allowing officials to claim the worst of the crisis had passed.But the recent decline in oil prices -- with Brent crude reaching an 11-year low this month -- has cast a shadow on the recovery of Russia's oil-dependent economy.The country's 2016 budget had been calculated on an oil price of $50 per barrel, a figure President Vladimir Putin said was an "optimistic" assessment of the situation, with the price now hovering around $37.Siluanov predicted the oil price would stay around $40 per barrel on average, and that spending cuts and privatisation measures would be integrated into the budget.At his annual press conference earlier this month,

 Putin insisted the country could weather the headwinds, despite volatility in oil prices.The Russian government has forecast the country's GDP would increase 0.7 percent next year, after falling 3.7 percent in 2015.http://news.yahoo.com/russian-...ister-004931036.html (http://news.yahoo.com/russian-economy-endure-difficult-2016-warns-minister-004931036.html)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 30, 2015, 02:12:36 PM
Russia’s ruble hits lowest level in a year!!   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


By Associated Press December 30 at 6:13 AM


MOSCOW — The Russian ruble has hit its lowest level in a year against the dollar as the country’s economy is battered by a decline in the price of its oil exports.

The ruble dropped 1.3 percent in early morning trading on Wednesday to 73.2 rubles per dollar, its weakest level in about 12 months. The national currency lost 40 percent of its value last year and is now 20 percent down compared to a year ago.

The Russian economy has been suffering from the effects of Western economic sanctions and oil prices, the backbone of the country’s economy, which are currently hovering around 11-year lows.

The Russian economic development minister on Tuesday said the government is not so much concerned about the drop in the value of the ruble but rather its volatility, which makes budget planning difficult.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russias-ruble-reaching-record-high-lows/2015/12/30/50815dd4-aed4-11e5-b281-43c0b56f61fa_story.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 01, 2016, 10:36:06 AM
The Ruble's down hill side.


 Ironic huh?


http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/the-rubles-downhill-ride/27460800.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 02, 2016, 04:02:55 AM
Saw several signs yesterday with 70 being the current exchange rate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 02, 2016, 09:10:49 AM
Mendy,
 I'm aware that the Moscow times have been sold as part of the majority ownership being Russian law. But it hasn't been updated or changed in several (5-6 )days. Are they done?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on January 02, 2016, 10:11:41 AM
The recent success of Elon Musk and SpaceX has the Russian rocket industry scrambling to retain their share of the market.

"Competitors are stepping on our toes. Look at what billionaire Musk is doing with his projects. This is very interesting, well done, and we treat this work with respect."

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2015/12/30/SpaceX-stepping-on-toes-of-Russia-in-space-transport-market-official-says/4121451483607/ (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2015/12/30/SpaceX-stepping-on-toes-of-Russia-in-space-transport-market-official-says/4121451483607/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 02, 2016, 12:29:27 PM
Mike, they typically go into somewhat of a hibernation mode during the holidays. I'd expect to see limited publication from them until after the new old year on 14 January. They model their mainly English speaking readership, many of whom are traveling out of the country over the holidays.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 02, 2016, 02:16:57 PM
I have noticed very little news coming from Kiev Post over the past month or so.  I discovered that Union News still has daily postings about Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 02, 2016, 07:43:05 PM
I have noticed very little news coming from Kiev Post over the past month or so.  I discovered that Union News still has daily postings about Ukraine.

It really is bad news for Russia that Ukraine has a "free" media that can comment .Not to say  it is perfect situation--but it resembles reasonably closely western media that can be critical of government and individuals.
A couple of useful links-

http://ukrstream.tv/en/stream/ukraine_today

http://uatoday.tv/news

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 04, 2016, 10:30:36 AM
More Crimean Power Shortages Likely With End Of Ukraine SuppliesResidents of Crimea face several more months of power shortages as Russia appears to have ended a contract with Ukraine to deliver electricity to the peninsula it annexed in 2014.[/size][/font]
[/size]A Kremlin spokesman said January 1 that Russian President Vladimir Putin will not renew the contract, which expired on New Year's day, as long as Kyiv keeps insisting on stipulating in the contract that the peninsula belongs to Ukraine."It can be assumed with a great degree of probability that the president will opt not to sign a contract on such terms," which would amount to an abnegation of Russia's annexation, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov said. After a month of on-and-off electricity supplies from Ukraine due to sabotage of the high-voltage transmission lines feeding the peninsula, power to Crimea was officially cut off at midnight December 31 when the contract expired, Russian media reported.If Kyiv agrees to drop its demand for a clause designating Crimea as part of Ukraine, Peskov said, then Russia would be more inclined to renew the contract. To support the Kremlin's apparent decision not to renew the contract, Putin commissioned an opinion poll to determine whether Crimean residents want to be a part of Ukraine to continue getting power supplies from the Ukrainian company Ukrenegro.Russian news agencies reported on January 1 that over 90 percent of Crimeans said in the poll they would be against renewing the contract under those circumstances, even if it meant experiencing more minor disruptions in supply.The Kremlin said Putin will be guided by the results of the poll, which was conducted by a state-owned polling organization, in making a decision about the now-lapsed power supply contract with Ukraine.Without power from Ukraine, officials have warned that Crimeans will continue to experience at least minor electricity shortages and rolling blackouts for three or four months until Moscow can complete the construction of undersea cables transmitting more power from Russia.Russian Energy Minister Aleksander Novak has said the power shortages will be particularly acute at peak times of usage, when shortfalls of up to 10 percent are possible.
http://www.rferl.org/content/more-crimean-power-shortages-likely-with-end-of-ukraine-supplies-kremlin/27462455.html[/font]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 05, 2016, 03:40:53 PM
The deaths of two senior Russian military officials within a week have touched off speculation in Russian social media about the toll Russia's wars are taking on its army, with some hints of a conspiracy to cover up the undeclared war on Ukraine, according to The Interpreter.
l


Deaths of two senior Russian military chiefs touch off speculation


Lt. Gen. Igor Sergun, head of the GRU (military intelligence), reportedly died an "untimely" death at the age of 58 from unknown causes. Sergun, appointed by President Vladimir Putin, would have been central to the "hybrid war" against Ukraine that first involved the occupation and annexation of Crimea, then the invasion of Donbas, reads the article by The Interpreter.

Indeed, the accounts of GRU officers captured or killed on Ukrainian territory testify to the GRU's involvement.

The official who died on December 27, 2015,reportedly of heart attack, was Maj. Gen. Aleksandr Shushukin, deputy chief of staff of Russia's Airborne Division, who was said to have led the occupation of Crimea in February 2014.

The claim of Shushukin's role in Crimea were covered mainly by the Ukrainian and alternative Russian-language media.

His death was confirmed with a condolence notice on the web site of the Army General V.F. Margelov Ryazan Higher Airborne Command Academy, of which he had been a graduate, and reportedly on a YouTube post by the Academy.


Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1229298-deaths-of-two-senior-russian-military-chiefs-touch-off-speculation.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 05, 2016, 03:49:24 PM
Is it possible that the explanation is as simple as this?


Troubling questions about Putin: Is he sick? And is he getting rid of witnesses?


Of course, the two deaths may be a coincidence, but they are convenient and getting rid of the executors of regime policy has long been a tradition for the Soviet and Russian security services. They in this as in much else operate according to the principle “no person, no problem.” That Putin might do the same should not surprise anyone, Shkiryak says.


http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/01/05/two-troubling-questions-about-putin-is-he-sick-and-is-he-getting-rid-of-witnesses/#arvlbdata
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 07, 2016, 12:16:23 AM

Mr. Putin had to face such accusations at all shows that a new understanding about Russia is taking hold: Russia is a mafia state — not only because it is run like the mafia, but also because it is run by organized crime.

Putin’s Year in Scandals

Yet another investigation released last month revealed apparent links between the Russian prosecutor general and the country’s most notorious organized crime family. Such allegations have become so prominent in the public conversation lately, even in Russia, that they were raised with Mr. Putin on Dec. 17, during his highly scripted annual news conference.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/opinion/putins-year-in-scandals.html?_r=2&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2F
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 07, 2016, 02:52:39 PM
Putin’s Year in Scandals
Masha Gessen JAN. 6, 2016

GOING into 2016, Vladimir V. Putin is a very different politician from the one he was a year ago. His most significant changes have little to do with what he has done in the last 12 months. Instead they were wrought by the justice systems of two foreign countries — Britain and Spain — and a slew of Russian and Western journalists and activists. Thanks to all these disparate efforts, there has emerged a vivid, comprehensive and, most important, public picture of allegations of corruption and connections to organized crime that in the past had been the province of rumors or maverick investigations publishers wouldn’t dare to print.


Starting in early 2015, there were the 34 days of hearings in London about the death of Alexander V. Litvinenko, the rogue Russian secret-police agent who died of polonium poisoning in England in 2006. The possibility that the Russian government and Mr. Putin himself may have been behind the murder had long been discussed by journalists and detailed in books, but it took almost a decade for it to be raised in a legal venue.

For the rest click

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/opinion/putins-year-in-scandals.html?_r=2
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 08, 2016, 07:01:37 PM
Oil prices fell for a fourth day on Thursday, lurching again to 12-year lows as new financial market tumult in China brought a $30 per barrel handle within view.

Oil has fallen every day this year, losing nearly 10 percent in a sudden dive that makes last year's Goldman Sachs warning of sub-$30 crude seem not so outlandish after all.


Oil fell below $33 a barrel

January 7, oil prices continued sliding, falling below $33 a barrel for the first time since April 2004
Oil fell below $33 a barrel for the first time since April 2004 because of investors’ concerns of record production and massive stockpiles of unwanted crude and refined products, Reuters reports.
Brent fell more than 5 percent to a low of $32.16 before paring some of its losses. It stood down 3.4 percent at $33.07 at 1230 GMT.
U.S. crude futures hit a low of $32.10, their lowest since late 2003, before bouncing slightly to $32.72.

http://joinfo.com/business/1013314_oil-fell-below-33-a-barrel-for-the-first-time-since-april-2004.html

Oil down again to 12-year low; $30 handle looks more likely


"I wouldn't say it's a given right now that we will break below $30, but I think before the first quarter we will," said Doug King, fund manager in London for the $220 million Singapore-based Merchant Commodity Fund.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-oil-idUSKBN0UL02520160107


Meanwhile--the Rouble continues it's downward spiral !!

1.00 USD   =   74.5824 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 74.5824 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0134080 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2016-01-09 01:53 UTC
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 08, 2016, 10:38:21 PM
Had dinner recently with a Russian oil exec who was livid in his announcements that oil prices were manipulated by the USA in order to "destroy" Russia.

He asked what most Americans think of today's oil prices. I laughed and told him that the answer was obvious: Given the option that the typical American could pay $5 per gallon for gas that was carried on a ship from Saudi Arabia, or pay $2 per gallon from gas from North Dakota, what did he think Americans would rather do?

I also reminded him of how supply and demand works, especially in light that Russia is pumping out oil at record paces. Surprisingly, he understood little of how supply and demand impacts prices. I was flabbergasted at his ignorance in this regard (unless he was simply afraid to speak against state policy).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 09, 2016, 04:42:52 PM
have you ever gotten laid in Ukraine?  I did plenty of times, I guess my experience was different from yours to
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 09, 2016, 04:52:23 PM
have you ever gotten laid in Ukraine?  I did plenty of times, I guess my experience was different from yours to

Oh-- sounds like  you did spend time bending over to check if you were wearing socks! :mooning:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 09, 2016, 05:28:16 PM
I guess you never went to the prostate clinic in Yalta either, best time I ever had, although I had trouble walking and urinating for a few days after, "Doctor" Yulia was well... never mind...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 10, 2016, 03:23:38 PM
jay, nobody including me give's a rat's ass about you
you could choke to death on a chicken bone and I'd be more concerned about the chicken


Maybe you can get someone to lend you the $5K?
I am presuming you don''t have it"!! :)


Maybe as for some help from a few of the other fools who invent lies about others!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 10, 2016, 03:45:53 PM
http://www.topocr.com/jayh.JPG

duhhh- kwimster I wuz gonna bet chou dat Ukwane iz good and U say bad wordz about Ukwane
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 10, 2016, 05:36:05 PM
http://www.topocr.com/jayh.JPG (http://www.topocr.com/jayh.JPG)

duhhh- kwimster I wuz gonna bet chou dat Ukwane iz good and U say bad wordz about Ukwane


yup that sounds (and looks like) jayh.  :ROFL:


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 10, 2016, 05:48:52 PM
I really do feel sorry for the guy, he has no clue how clueless he is, that's like double clueless
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jazztropy on January 10, 2016, 06:43:08 PM
http://www.topocr.com/jayh.JPG


Wow!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 10, 2016, 06:51:29 PM
I put Jay's actual picture from his profile on a dating site!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on January 10, 2016, 09:55:20 PM
Come on guys . . . let's class it up a bit.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 11, 2016, 02:15:00 PM
Bloomberg puts Russia among worst economies in 2016

Only Greece, Brazil and Venezuela show worse figures, according to the analysis of potential efficiency of the world’s 93 economies conducted by several experts at Bloomberg’s request, according to Russia’s RBC news agency.


REUTERS"Its [Russia’s] GDP, according to economists, will be reduced in 2016 by 0.5%. Only Greece, Brazil and Venezuela are expected to show worse performance. Negative growth is also expected from the Ecuadorian economy, Argentina's GDP will remain at the same level, while the economies of Japan, Finland, Croatia and Switzerland will grow very slightly," said the report.
It is noted that in the past year Russia ranked third from the bottom in the Bloomberg’s list: its GDP has decreased by 3.65% in the first nine months. The last place went to Macau with the index declining by 25.03%. Ukraine's GDP will grow by 1.2-1.4%, according to the economists. There is a 60% possibility of a recession in the next 12 months, according to the experts.
"For Russia, a high risk of recession will remain throughout the year, but will begin to decline starting September, down to the level of just above 60% in December. The average risk will be at 65%. In general, the economists believe that Russia will come out of the prolonged two-decade recession and will see a slight growth by the end of the fourth quarter," the report reads.
The World Bank expects that in 2016, Russia's economy will shrink by 0.7%. A report issued on January 6 said that structural reforms are needed to improve the situation and reduce the geopolitical risks



Read more on UNIAN  http://www.unian.info/economics/1232884-bloomberg-puts-russia-among-worst-economies-in-2016.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 11, 2016, 02:37:50 PM
Hardly likely to help the Russian situation-



OIL AT USD $31



Crude Oil      31.12   -2.04   -6.15%
Ethanol      1.316   -0.019   -1.42%
Natural Gas      2.357   -0.115   -4.65%
Gasoline      1.1106   -0.0171   -1.52%
Heating Oil      1.0102   -0.0419   -3.98%
Gold      1095.0   -2.9   -0.26%
Quotes are delayed at least 10 minutes.
Click on chart icon for detailed price charts.


Morgan Stanley Joins The $20 Oil Club


“Oil in the $20s is possible, but not for the reasons often cited,” Morgan Stanley concluded. “It’s not about deteriorating fundamentals.”

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Morgan-Stanley-Joins-The-20-Oil-Club.html


TODAY--

1.00 USD   =   76.1605 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 76.1605 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0131302 USD
Convert again
RUB/USD thumbnailView Chart
Mid-market rates: 2016-01-12 00:08 UTC
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 12, 2016, 08:29:08 AM
Ruble Crashes to 77 Per Dollar Amid Oil Price Slump
 :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
The Russian ruble fell to 77 against the U.S. dollar on Tuesday for the first time since December 2014 as global prices for oil continue to slide, the RIA Novosti news agency reported.
As of Tuesday morning, the Russian currency had slipped to 77.01 against the U.S. dollar and 83.80 against the euro, according to the data from the Moscow Exchange.
The official exchange rates set by Russia's Central Bank on Monday stand at 75.95 rubles against the U.S. dollar, the lowest level since the financial collapse of 1998, according to the RBC newspaper. The official ruble exchange rate against the European currency stands at 82.8.
The weakening of the ruble comes amid the continuing decline in the global prices for oil.
February futures for Brent crude are currently trading at $30.6 per barrel, according to RIA Novosti.
The ruble has lost more than 50 percent of its value against the dollar since 2014.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/555547.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 12, 2016, 03:48:22 PM
The whisper of the collapse of the Russian economy is now an avalanche !!  One more voice making the prediction now-- and all that in spite of some of the forum who refuse to accept that it has been inevitable. To this day-- I still hear otherwise sensible people  not understanding the crisis that Putin has created.( that reference is not about acknowledged forum pro Rus anything fools)
A prominent European think tank contends that the Russian economy may be entering into a death spiral, driven by a combination of factors, including low energy prices, government mismanagement, a collapse in the Russian ruble’s value and Western sanctions.

Russia: Primed for an Economic Meltdown
The outsized influence of the state over the Russian economy throws a formidable obstacle in the way of economic recovery, the report asserts. “The decade-long implementation of the strategic idea of expanding the government sector of the economy, and making state investments a key driver of economic growth simply has not worked.”
 
“There are serious factors at work which will most probably drag the economy further down in a spiral effect — the destroyed domestic demand will force manufacturers to lay off people and reduce wages, causing further shocks to domestic demand,” the report warns.
 
Ominously, with few financial levers at their disposal to stabilize the economy, Russian policymakers are “playing around with the idea” of printing money on a massive scale, the report says. The potential massive emission of rubles into the economy by the Central Bank conjures up memories of the darkest days of the early 1990s, when the Russian economy was cast adrift amid the Soviet Union’s collapse.


http://www.eurasianet.org/node/76766
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 12, 2016, 04:57:57 PM
The whisper of the collapse of the Russian economy is now an avalanche !!  One more voice making the prediction now-- and all that in spite of some of the forum who refuse to accept that it has been inevitable. To this day-- I still hear otherwise sensible people  not understanding the crisis that Putin has created.( that reference is not about acknowledged forum pro Rus anything fools)
A prominent European think tank contends that the Russian economy may be entering into a death spiral, driven by a combination of factors, including low energy prices, government mismanagement, a collapse in the Russian ruble’s value and Western sanctions.

Russia: Primed for an Economic Meltdown
The outsized influence of the state over the Russian economy throws a formidable obstacle in the way of economic recovery, the report asserts. “The decade-long implementation of the strategic idea of expanding the government sector of the economy, and making state investments a key driver of economic growth simply has not worked.”
 
“There are serious factors at work which will most probably drag the economy further down in a spiral effect — the destroyed domestic demand will force manufacturers to lay off people and reduce wages, causing further shocks to domestic demand,” the report warns.
 
Ominously, with few financial levers at their disposal to stabilize the economy, Russian policymakers are “playing around with the idea” of printing money on a massive scale, the report says. The potential massive emission of rubles into the economy by the Central Bank conjures up memories of the darkest days of the early 1990s, when the Russian economy was cast adrift amid the Soviet Union’s collapse.


http://www.eurasianet.org/node/76766 (http://www.eurasianet.org/node/76766)


Near 30 dollar oil, and Russia continues on in it's current course in international adventures.   I believe it has been wishful thinking regarding the 'collapse', which you have been posting about for 2 years.   We (The US) have begun to feel effects, especially in the stock market and our tolerance is much much lower.   I believe the nations will have to coexist because neither will go down. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 12, 2016, 07:55:26 PM


Tumbling oil trades below $30 a barrel for first time in 12 years


Oil fell briefly below the widely watched $30-per-barrel level on Tuesday, extending a selloff that has sliced almost 20 percent off prices this year amid deepening concerns about fragile Chinese demand and the absence of output restraint.

Prices settled down 3 percent, a seventh straight daily decline for oil. Traders have all but given up attempting to predict where the new-year rout will end, with momentum-driven dealing and overwhelmingly bearish sentiment engulfing the market. Some analysts warned of $20 a barrel; Standard Chartered said fund selling may not relent until it reaches $10.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-oil-idUSKCN0UQ02220160112

U.S. Oil Settles Above $30 a Barrel, After Dipping Below for First Time Since 2003


Big oil companies deepened their cutbacks to staff and investment Tuesday, as the price of oil briefly slipped below $30 a barrel for the first time since December 2003.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-flirts-with-30-a-barrel-level-1452572527

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 13, 2016, 12:37:25 AM
Evidence on perpetrators of war crimes in Russia’s war in Donbas to be submitted to The Hague 

A new 156-page investigative report identifies for the first time perpetrators of war crimes in Russia’s war in East Ukraine. The extensive evidence presented will be submitted to the International Criminal Court in The Hague which has jurisdiction to prosecute individuals for international crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes.The report entitled  is based on numerous victim and witness interviews conducted by a team of Polish and Ukrainian volunteers. It was commissioned by Polish Parliamentarian Małgorzata Gosiewska of Poland’s Law and Justice Party. The report adds to the mounting evidence of the horrific conditions of war that Ukrainian soldiers and civilians have had to endure as a result of Russia’s invasion into Ukraine after the abdication of the presidency by Victor Yanukovych in the days following the nation’s Euromaidan Revolution in February 2014.

Click for the rest of the article
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/12/24/new-report-russias-war-crimes-and-perpetrators-in-ukraine-2014/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 13, 2016, 09:43:28 AM
This sounds far too low. There worst I've heard about was in the low twenties.

The 2016 federal budget that was approved in October was based on an oil price of
$50 a barrel in 2016 - a figure President Vladimir Putin has since described as "unrealistic".

Oil price: predictions of fall to $16 - and even $10

read all about it here
http://www.theweek.co.uk/oil-price/60838/oil-price-predictions-of-fall-to-16-and-even-10
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 13, 2016, 09:47:13 AM
Russia prepares stress test as oil slides below $30

While US WTI crude briefly stumbled below $30 for the first time in 12 years, Russia's Urals blend is already below that mark trading at $27.14 a barrel. Given the new reality, the Kremlin has ordered stress tests with $25, $35 and $45 oil.

(http://image.minyanville.com/assets/FCK_Jan2011/images/Josh%20Wolonick/Arctic-oil-campaign2.jpg)

read all about it here
http://www.rt.com/business/328728-russia-oil-prices-budget/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 13, 2016, 01:57:31 PM
It's going to hurt that one trick pony show that they've got going on in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 14, 2016, 09:31:23 AM
Russian Imports Drop 36% in 2015
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-imports-drop-36-in-2015/555780.html

Russian Car Sales Down 36% in 2015
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-car-sales-down-36-in-2015/555761.html

Russia Must Cut Spending or Suffer Financial Crash — Finance Minister
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-must-cut-spending-or-suffer-financial-crash--finance-minister/555640.html

60% of Muscovites Have Noticed Russia's Worsening Economy – Pollhttp://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/60-of-muscovites-have-noticed-russias-worsening-economy--poll/555636.html

Russian Outbound Tourism During New Year Holidays Down 35%
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-outbound-tourism-during-new-year-holidays-down-35/555591.html

China's Economic Turmoil Ruins Russia's New Year
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/chinas-economic-turmoil-ruins-russias-new-year/555714.html

Putin on Russia-West Relations: 'We've Done Everything Wrong'
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/putin-on-russia-west-relations-weve-done-everything-wrong/555445.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GuppyCaptain on January 14, 2016, 10:32:47 AM
Mike, now you're just being "anti-Russian"  ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 14, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
Not really, I'm anti-Kremlin and anti-Invasion. Too bad that it seems that the country is filled with vatniks though.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 14, 2016, 11:29:53 AM
Sorry for the large font size folks.. Chrome isn't good for this copy/paste. I'll swap back to IE for future ones.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GuppyCaptain on January 14, 2016, 12:14:40 PM
Not really, I'm anti-Kremlin and anti-Invasion. Too bad that it seems that the country is filled with vatniks though.  :rolleyes:

It was an inside joke from that "other" forum. A few of us were passionately labeled "anti-Russian" even though we're anti-Putin and have no beef with the country's general populace.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 14, 2016, 12:16:40 PM
Last week it hit $74 and by Friday we saw signs advertising $75.  By Saturday it was $76, Sunday my wife pointed out several signs at $77 and on Tuesday morning we were seeing $78.  One friend swears he saw $80 but I think that he might have confused it for Euros.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 14, 2016, 01:44:37 PM
It was an inside joke from that "other" forum. A few of us were passionately labeled "anti-Russian" even though we're anti-Putin and have no beef with the country's general populace.


GC--we have heard all that "you are anti-Russian"  bs here too.Some of the loudest in the other place left here with tails between their legs!  Not so keen when people are actually able to reply.
You( & others) are probably not aware how many are restricted in how posts appear there--plus the veritable army of regulars here who are banned there.
The lack of free speech there is right out of the Kremlin playbook!! :)

At least here there are many with strong connections to Russia that see it for what it is-and more power to them for that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 14, 2016, 02:16:48 PM
Where is the cheapest crude oil in the world? And how low can you get that barrel of oil?

Forget $20 - Oil Prices At $8 Per Barrel In Canada

WTI has declined to $30 per barrel, the lowest level in more than 12 years. But heavy oil producers in Canada would love to have $30 oil.

The price for a barrel of bitumen, the tar-like oil sands that comes from Alberta, fell to just over $8 per barrel this week. That is not a typo. Bitumen traded at $8.35 per barrel on Tuesday.


http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Forget-20-Oil-Prices-At-8-Per-Barrel-In-Canada.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 14, 2016, 02:23:11 PM
It was an inside joke from that "other" forum. A few of us were passionately labeled "anti-Russian" even though we're anti-Putin and have no beef with the country's general populace.


 I got it . that's why I worded it like that, for the vatniks.. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 14, 2016, 02:25:00 PM
Last week it hit $74 and by Friday we saw signs advertising $75.  By Saturday it was $76, Sunday my wife pointed out several signs at $77 and on Tuesday morning we were seeing $78.  One friend swears he saw $80 but I think that he might have confused it for Euros.


 Mendy, Are any of those signs set up to handle triple digits yet?   :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 14, 2016, 03:01:01 PM
Where is the cheapest crude oil in the world? And how low can you get that barrel of oil?

Forget $20 - Oil Prices At $8 Per Barrel In Canada

WTI has declined to $30 per barrel, the lowest level in more than 12 years. But heavy oil producers in Canada would love to have $30 oil.

The price for a barrel of bitumen, the tar-like oil sands that comes from Alberta, fell to just over $8 per barrel this week. That is not a typo. Bitumen traded at $8.35 per barrel on Tuesday.


http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Forget-20-Oil-Prices-At-8-Per-Barrel-In-Canada.html (http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Forget-20-Oil-Prices-At-8-Per-Barrel-In-Canada.html)


A ton of straight sand will be about $30 a ton.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on January 14, 2016, 03:30:30 PM

A ton of straight sand will be about $30 a ton.
Fathertime!

Any quotes on gay sand?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 15, 2016, 08:29:43 AM

 Mendy, Are any of those signs set up to handle triple digits yet?   :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:


Mike, in true Ruskie fashion most of those signs will simply read the last two digits, with the first digit being "understood" if such a drop were to continue.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 15, 2016, 08:43:24 AM
Thanks!  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 15, 2016, 12:11:53 PM
"We have lost": Sberbank of Russia's CEO calls Russia "downshifter state"

Era of hydrocarbons is over, and Russia has found itself among the losers, "the downshifter states,” said German Gref, Head of Sberbank of Russia speaking at the Gaidar Forum. He called to change all state systems, including the system of education.
Gref spoke of the crisis in the oil market, which, as he believes, was caused by the "radical shifts in consumption." "The era of hydrocarbons is over. Just like the Stone Age was over not because there were no stones left, the Oil Age is now over as well," Gref said.

"The future has come sooner than we expected. We are already living in this future today,” the head of Sberbank said, adding in English: “Welcome to the future!”

As RBC reported, Gref believes that the future price of oil does not really matter: "We will really lag behind if we don’t change the concept of our popular approach."

"We lost the competition, ending up among of countries that are losing, "the downshifter states." The winners are the states and individuals, who were able to adapt and invest in it in due time. Those who weren’t, are going to lose big time," he said. According to Gref, Russia is facing "a huge income gap" with "the winner states.”

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1237754-we-have-lost-sberbank-of-russia-ceo-calls-russia-downshifter-state.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 15, 2016, 12:46:20 PM
Interesting, as that is a bank we patronize. It is a "savings bank" in Russian terms and a good one. Gref is usually no dummy, but speaking his mind so freely is not always the smartest move for someone in his position.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 15, 2016, 02:31:10 PM
He's about ready to join those last two generals that left their jobs unexpectly.. Cargo 200

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 15, 2016, 04:35:51 PM

Hmmm....but I didn't predict 30 dollar oil.  Despite some expert predictions, and it's closer proximity now, I still have a hard time believing it will go so low.  Possible yes, perhaps briefly, but who knows... As far as the 20 dollar predictions, I don't think so..

Ahh--  28 is a  20 something! One of the best guides we have seen is if the deniers deny! Just like the the pro-Rus believers of anything the kremlin pumps out who advised forum members to rush into rubble to grab the deal of a lifetime--on current rates it would have divided your dollars by  about 2 !!
BTW-- a devaluation on the Rouble is imminent-- will it be at 100?? Or at least close. (fwiw-- back in 2014 I predicted 110-- and no one thought it was possible !)

The price of the futures contract for Brent crude oil March delivery declined by 7.18% to $28.81 per barrel on the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE) in the course of the trading on Friday, according to TASS.


Brent falls below $29 per barrel, first time since 2004

At the same time, the dollar on the Moscow Exchange grew by 2.3% to RUB 77.8, the euro rose by 3.2% to RUB 85.3.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/economics/1238020-brent-falls-below-29-per-barrel-first-time-since-2004.html

: http://www.unian.info/economics/1238020-brent-falls-below-29-per-barrel-first-time-since-2004.html

This is an optimistic view of oil prices-

Oil Sinks Below $30 As Traders Fear Tidal Wave Of Iranian Oil

Oil prices briefly dipped below $30 per barrel this week as the depressed market continues. Market watchers seemed to be competing with each other to see who could publish the lowest prediction for oil prices, with Standard Chartered raising the possibility of $10 oil. It wasn’t too long ago that sub-$30 oil sounded ridiculous, so nobody can predict where the true bottom will be. The only thing that everyone knows is that today’s prices are unsustainably low since a large portion of global oil production is not profitable right now. The big question is when we will hit bottom.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Sinks-Below-30-As-Traders-Fear-Tidal-Wave-Of-Iranian-Oil.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 15, 2016, 05:45:07 PM
Ahh--  28 is a  20 something! One of the best guides we have seen is if the deniers deny! Just like the the pro-Rus believers of anything the kremlin pumps out who advised forum members to rush into rubble to grab the deal of a lifetime--on current rates it would have divided your dollars by  about 2 !!
BTW-- a devaluation on the Rouble is imminent-- will it be at 100?? Or at least close. (fwiw-- back in 2014 I predicted 110-- and no one thought it was possible !)

l (http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Sinks-Below-30-As-Traders-Fear-Tidal-Wave-Of-Iranian-Oil.html)


Today is the first day oil will likely close below 30 a barrel, it currently is trading at $29.70 a barrel, so your "28" number is fiction at this point.  I did not think it would go this low unless there was a US recession, which we may be entering as our stock market is dropping fairly massively over the past month or so.   


Now as to the Ruble and many of the falling world currencies.  I believe that the currencies are falling, in part, because of the shortage of dollars (Relatively speaking).  There is a shortage because we are destroying wealth at an alarming rate through US company stock market losses.   Most of the currencies I follow are at or near historic lows, everything from the Brazilian Real, to the New Zealand dollar are very weak vs the dollar...rubles included. 


Since oil is usually purchased in dollars,oil producing  nations such as Russia are receiving very strong dollars for their oil, which does lesson the impact of the weak Ruble.


Your one-dimensional predictions about 110-1 Ruble are not likely to be as negatively impactful as you may believe, if they were to ever come to pass. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 15, 2016, 08:47:16 PM
FT, sometimes it is so painfully obvious that you've never been to Russia that it actually hurts.

Personally I could care less about the price of oil, but I wish that you'd travel and take the time to explain to ordinary Russians just how in hell they are so lucky to have this strong dollar.

At a time when the Russian economy is contracting, the last thing most Russians want is a strong dollar versus a weak Ruble.

I know because I live among and alongside them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 15, 2016, 09:23:08 PM
FT, sometimes it is so painfully obvious that you've never been to Russia that it actually hurts.

Personally I could care less about the price of oil, but I wish that you'd travel and take the time to explain to ordinary Russians just how in hell they are so lucky to have this strong dollar.

At a time when the Russian economy is contracting, the last thing most Russians want is a strong dollar versus a weak Ruble.

I know because I live among and alongside them.
Please TRY to do a better job reading what has been written.


It is a strange reply to what I said.  Where did I say that Russia or its citizenry 'wants a strong dollar vs a weak Ruble?  Where did I even imply that?  It is obvious that they do not, but what I did say was that Russia IS receiving strong dollars for their oil, just the same. The strong dollars have better purchasing power if used to purchase goods from other nations, since the dollar is quite high worldwide.  These are all reasonable points, but you got carried away attempting to create statements I didn't even make or imply. 


 It is painfully obvious you are out of touch with the financial pressures in the USA, and impact that many have already felt here.  Some of which can be at least partially be attributed to the rift with Russia. 


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 15, 2016, 09:26:23 PM
More educational lessons on economics for FT...
 :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 15, 2016, 10:18:40 PM

Today is the first day oil will likely close below 30 a barrel, it currently is trading at $29.70 a barrel, so your "28" number is fiction at this point.


Unlike your fictional  bs-- no fiction about it-
QUOTING_

"15.01.2016 | 20:38

The price of the futures contract for Brent crude oil March delivery declined by 7.18% to $28.81 per barrel on the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE) in the course of the trading on Friday, according to TASS."  END QUOTE


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 15, 2016, 10:43:04 PM
Unlike your fictional  bs-- no fiction about it-
QUOTING_

"15.01.2016 | 20:38

The price of the futures contract for Brent crude oil March delivery declined by 7.18% to $28.81 per barrel on the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE) in the course of the trading on Friday, according to TASS[/b][/size]."  END QUOTE


No point in quibbling over a few cents, but there are various prices, it is all closer to 29 than 28...





US oil plunges 5.7% on China, closes at $29.42 a barrel



http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/14/us-crude-falls-as-market-braces-for-more-iranian-oil.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/14/us-crude-falls-as-market-braces-for-more-iranian-oil.html)


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 15, 2016, 11:54:58 PM
I read quite well, FT.  You said:

Quote
Since oil is usually purchased in dollars,oil producing  nations such as Russia are receiving very strong dollars for their oil, which does lesson the impact of the weak Ruble.

I am going to assume that you meant "lessen" the impact. No, a strong dollar actually weakens the purchasing power of the ordinary Russian citizen. I benefit because I am paid in dollars. But I am the exception as I get to convert my strong currency into a weaker one and afford more stuff.

As someone who owns a business in the USA, I am well aware of the nation's economic pressures--much of it caused by a profoundly ignorant administration that with God's grace will be finished with the next elections cycle.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 16, 2016, 12:01:28 AM
I read quite well, FT.  You said:

I am going to assume that you meant "lessen" the impact. No, a strong dollar actually weakens the purchasing power of the ordinary Russian citizen. I benefit because I am paid in dollars. But I am the exception as I get to convert my strong currency into a weaker one and afford more stuff.

As someone who owns a business in the USA, I am well aware of the nation's economic pressures--much of it caused by a profoundly ignorant administration that with God's grace will be finished with the next elections cycle.


 :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 16, 2016, 09:25:07 AM
I read quite well, FT.  You said:

I am going to assume that you meant "lessen" the impact. No, a strong dollar actually weakens the purchasing power of the ordinary Russian citizen. I benefit because I am paid in dollars. But I am the exception as I get to convert my strong currency into a weaker one and afford more stuff.

You read so well that you added in assumptions that I didn't even write. 

This is where you went wrong with your assumptions.  It is obvious to anybody that a low Ruble harms purchasing power of the most Russians.  That said, Russia is receiving powerful dollars for their oil, these powerful dollars can be used for the military, food, vodka, or whatever else. 



As someone who owns a business in the USA, I am well aware of the nation's economic pressures--much of it caused by a profoundly ignorant administration that with God's grace will be finished with the next elections cycle.



Interesting, so how is this administration 'profoundly ignorant'? What has it caused? This is an opportunity to hit one out of the park because undoubtedly your response will play well here among aspects of the readership. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on January 16, 2016, 10:43:55 AM
US storage facilities overflowing. Chinese facilities so full tankers cannot offload. Saudi's keep pumping. Alternative energy in full swing. And now sanctions lifted on Iran.

They say it could even reach ten bucks a barrel within six months....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on January 16, 2016, 11:12:06 AM
FT
think mendeleyev has the upper hand this time...

A year ago oil was around 60 bucks per barrel and USD RUB around 35 / dollar so 60*35 = 2100 RUB
Now oil is around 30 bucks per barrel and USD RUB around 78 / dollar so 30+78 2340 RUB....
a measly 140 RUB difference.. not much in the grand scheme of things..
But yes, if the RUB continues to devaluate against the USD it's a little 'plus' for RU as long as the oil prices don't sink further...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 16, 2016, 02:49:20 PM
FT
think mendeleyev has the upper hand this time...

A year ago oil was around 60 bucks per barrel and USD RUB around 35 / dollar so 60*35 = 2100 RUB
Now oil is around 30 bucks per barrel and USD RUB around 78 / dollar so 30+78 2340 RUB....
a measly 140 RUB difference.. not much in the grand scheme of things..
But yes, if the RUB continues to devaluate against the USD it's a little 'plus' for RU as long as the oil prices don't sink further...


Actually I think you and I are in agreement...the sanctions are  harmful, but the price of oil in powerful dollars mitigates the damage somewhat.  I think Mendeleyev misstated what I said, and then ran with his misstatement, as if it were mine!  I am curious though what in particular makes the current administration 'profoundly ignorant' from his perspective.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 16, 2016, 03:39:48 PM


The links in my last three posts have clearly demonstrated that the deal is not moving forward.

 
Brass


Yeah right!  For all your shouting, you have incredibly wrong. How incredibly disappointing to you that we didn't try to bomb them to hell and start a large war instead! 



EU's Mogherini says Iran nuclear deal now in force



The European Union's foreign policy chief said on Saturday that an historic deal between Iran and six world powers to lift crippling sanctions on the Islamic Republic in exchange for it drastically shrinking its nuclear program had gone into force.

"Today we have achieved Implementation Day of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action," Federica Mogherini told reporters in Vienna, referring to the deal sealed last July

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-mogherini-idUSKCN0UU14R (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-mogherini-idUSKCN0UU14R)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 16, 2016, 04:29:27 PM

No point in quibbling over a few cents, but there are various prices, it is all closer to 29 than 28...
!

28 is 28 !!
You are so clueless yet you keep making your nonsense posts!

In the real world--
By the end of last week, Standard Chartered had the most extreme prediction. The emerging market-focused bank believes crude could trade at $10. Prices could fall further as investors assume US shale production will be resilient in the face of price movements, analysts said. “In the extreme case, the only definition of a floor would come when the entire market felt that prices had undershot too far.”
Like other commodities, supply and demand drive what price crude will fetch on global markets. The emergence of the US as an oil producing powerhouse has been pivotal in prompting the slide.
Now note--  many are making predictions of very low numbers now.Since the fall started--other complications are now arriving.

Oil price: sell 'any and all rallies' as Iran prepares to pump

At its nadir, overnight oil fell close to 8 per cent from where it had been in London earlier in the day.

Reuters notes that another key factor was leaked data suggesting Iraq's oil output from its southern territories has increased 8 per cent and that total exports could reach a record 3.6 million barrels a day in February. The country is now the second-largest producer in the powerful Opec cartel, adding to concerns the bloc will not make cuts to support higher prices.

With reserves at record levels, investment banks are revising their already pessimistic forecasts lower. The Financial Times says Morgan Stanley has become the latest bank to predict prices would fall to $20, while Royal Bank of Scotland credit analysts capped an ultra-bearish forecast for markets with a call for a low of $16 – and Standard Chartered said the market could reach $10.

"We think prices could fall as low as $10 [a barrel] before most of the money managers in the market conceded that matters had gone too far," the bank said.

It is hard to see how anything more than a brief relief rally will materialise in the near future to prevent further sharp falls.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/oil-price/60838/oil-price-breaks-below-30-with-no-end-to-slump-in-sight

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 16, 2016, 04:59:21 PM
28 is 28 !!
You are so clueless yet you keep making your nonsense posts!

 


Opps, it does look like you want to quibble over a few cents!

You are both hapless, and clueless.  If 28 is 28 than you are wrong by saying oil is selling for 28, it isn't yet.  There are all sorts of predictions of future oil prices...some are predicting 70 dollar oil in a few years. I even read $250 oil if if we were to have a major Saudi/Iran war It doesn't matter for now, it sells for around $29. Now that Iran will be included in the fold, we shall see if that further erodes the price.  Regardless, your predictions of a Russian collapse have been completely wrong. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 16, 2016, 06:38:10 PM
It's so entertaining watching FT receiving his daily dose of education from Mendy...
 :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 16, 2016, 06:58:43 PM
It is painfully obvious you are out of touch with the financial pressures in the USA, and impact that many have already felt here.  Some of which can be at least partially be attributed to the rift with Russia. 


It's so entertaining watching FT receiving his daily dose of education from Mendy...
 :popcorn:

Yeah--like the idea that the US of A is suffering  like Russia because of Putin's stupidity!!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 16, 2016, 08:10:57 PM
It's so entertaining watching FT receiving his daily dose of education from Mendy...
 :popcorn:
I recognize your feeble attempt to try to inflame, but can't fault Mendeleyev for your ignorance, or inability to score a babe from the FSU.  I will take this opportunity to reaffirm my position. 
1.  Sanctions while harmful,  are not as harmful to Russia as certain people would like, because they are receiving strong dollars for their oil. 
2. The US may be entering a recession, with our US oil and pipeline companies leading the way. What is going on with Russia is certainly a factor.   [size=78%] [/size]
3. Jayh, hasn't proven to be very bright, or convincing.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on January 16, 2016, 08:32:05 PM
FT

economics 101 stuff

2 years ago rouble was approx 35 / dollar and oil was approx 100USD / Barrel ....  3500 Roubles / Barrel.. agreed  ?

Now it's 77 ish / USD and oil is priced at - being generous - approx 30 USD ..         2310 Roubles / Barrel ...agreed ?


Even the Russian finance minister says the break even is 82 usd/ barrel to balance the budget for 2016..

I'm all in favour of playing devil's advocate, but you are being stubbornly 'silly' in your argument that a strong dollar is better for the RF in times of falling oil revenues in dollars.

Then there's the question of the cost of borrowing... harder to find and higher interest..

Have a good day





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 16, 2016, 08:58:45 PM
FT

economics 101 stuff

2 years ago rouble was approx 35 / dollar and oil was approx 100USD / Barrel ....  3500 Roubles / Barrel.. agreed  ?

Now it's 77 ish / USD and oil is priced at - being generous - approx 30 USD ..         2310 Roubles / Barrel ...agreed ?


Even the Russian finance minister says the break even is 82 usd/ barrel to balance the budget for 2016..

I'm all in favour of playing devil's advocate, but you are being stubbornly 'silly' in your argument that a strong dollar is better for the RF in times of falling oil revenues in dollars.

Then there's the question of the cost of borrowing... harder to find and higher interest..

Have a good day
Hey Msm,
 
I appreciate you attempting to get my point. 


1.  Russia is the seller of oil, so they can get 30 weak US dollars, or they can get 30 strong US dollars.  It is better for them to get 30 strong dollars.
2.  Granted it would be better to get 70 middle of the road dollars.




If the US dollars were weak, and still it took 77 Rubles to make a dollar, then Russia would be totally screwed getting a currency for their commodity that doesn't buy them much.  So yes I do see the benefit a strong dollar has for Russia...so long as they avoid importing expensive US goods, which I suspect they are attempting to minimize.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 16, 2016, 09:13:53 PM
or inability to score a babe from the FSU.

Neither can you...
Maybe you would like to convince us how you actually traded upmarket and went the Latina babe route instead.
 :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 16, 2016, 09:23:16 PM
Neither can you...
Maybe you would like to convince us how you actually traded upmarket and went the Latina babe route instead.
 :popcorn:


Only a fool like yourself would consider a woman's origin 'an upmarket'.  Please enlighten the readership more with your astute commentary! It does explain why you haven't had any success....
 :ROFL: 
Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 16, 2016, 10:15:47 PM
As someone who owns a business in the USA, I am well aware of the nation's economic pressures--much of it caused by a profoundly ignorant administration that with God's grace will be finished with the next elections cycle.



If Bernie Sanders becomes president, he'll make Obama look like a conservative. Sanders is a Socialist. He's one of those Americans who live in the most powerful and prosperous nation on earth and will adopt the Europe way of doing things for answers. Crazy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 16, 2016, 10:16:31 PM
FT

economics 101 stuff

2 years ago rouble was approx 35 / dollar and oil was approx 100USD / Barrel ....  3500 Roubles / Barrel.. agreed  ?

Now it's 77 ish / USD and oil is priced at - being generous - approx 30 USD ..         2310 Roubles / Barrel ...agreed ?


Even the Russian finance minister says the break even is 82 usd/ barrel to balance the budget for 2016..

I'm all in favour of playing devil's advocate, but you are being stubbornly 'silly' in your argument that a strong dollar is better for the RF in times of falling oil revenues in dollars.

Then there's the question of the cost of borrowing... harder to find and higher interest..

Have a good day

Moby-- that is not economics--it is a piece of basic arithmetic! Perhaps if you suggest he takes his shoes off it will double his capacity to count !! Maybe that will help? !!

"I'm all in favour of playing devil's advocate"

You may think that-- but I do not! Particularly when the devil  they are seeking to rationalise is Putin!

I am guessing you missed this troll telling us all how the invasion of Ukraine and the thousands of dead and maimed,millions displaced etc plus all the other losses to Ukraine  as a result of the Russian invasion was a "WIN WIN" situation 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 16, 2016, 10:26:43 PM


economics 101 stuff


A little on  "economics-- even the Russian finance minister did his number on $50 oil-- and the rubble better than it is now and expecting an "improvement" !

Now -- a devaluation of the rouble is imminent-- basically on the theory that if the USD$ keeps rising they can keep budget in order by giving themselves more rouble per dollar.
They dont grow too many bananas in Russia-- so calling them a banana republic seems out of place-- but the strategy is about the same !
Of course--if you followed manny's advice to get into Roubles while they were bargain basement ( @ 30 something!!) you would miss out on the next "bonanza" as the rouble equals better than 3 to  $1 USD  !! :) :)

The problem for Russia is that they cannot live in isolation--even if Putin thinks so--or more accurately--tries to make everyday Russians live back in the USSR !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 16, 2016, 10:30:55 PM
Neither can you...
Maybe you would like to convince us how you actually traded upmarket and went the Latina babe route instead.
 :popcorn:

SC-- the troll knows nothing about me-- so please-- do not presume anything he says has a factual basis. His more recent offering was that attempt at an insult plus I was a sex tourist.Maybe he was too tired from doing all that counting today to include that in his post!! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 16, 2016, 10:40:26 PM
Moby-- that is not economics--it is a piece of basic arithmetic! Perhaps if you suggest he takes his shoes off it will double his capacity to count !! Maybe that will help? !!


Wow, that was so original and funny.  Keep the day job.
 :rolleyes:




I am guessing you missed this troll telling us all how the invasion of Ukraine and the thousands of dead and maimed,millions displaced etc plus all the other losses to Ukraine  as a result of the Russian invasion was a "WIN WIN" situation 

This is a perfect example of making something up to fit a narrative.  While I did use the phrase win/win...it was not in the context you are now placing it in....It is interesting that you feel the need to misrepresent the position though.




SC-- the troll knows nothing about me-- so please-- do not presume anything he says has a factual basis. His more recent offering was that attempt at an insult plus I was a sex tourist.Maybe he was too tired from doing all that counting today to include that in his post!! :)


Based on what you have said about yourself, there is a good chance that you are a sex tourist of sorts...or inept with women.... but that isn't all that relevant to the current discussion.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 17, 2016, 12:46:11 AM
.... but that isn't all that relevant to the current discussion.


Fathertime!

You're actually assuming people here take what you write seriously rather than see it as comical entertainment?
 :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 17, 2016, 01:10:57 AM


Based on what you have said about yourself, there is a good chance that you are a sex tourist of sorts...or inept with women.... but that isn't all that relevant to the current discussion.




Based on what you have said about yourself

And where would that be?You and your invented lies are your source?


 but that isn't all that relevant to the current discussion.

So you lies are relevent-- how big an idiot are you?

Answer not required-- it is obvious for all to see.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 17, 2016, 08:07:36 AM
You're actually assuming people here take what you write seriously rather than see it as comical entertainment?
 :popcorn:
Based on the totality of your 'contributions' I know for certain that you are not taken seriously... :D


Based on what you have said about yourself

And where would that be?You and your invented lies are your source?


 but that isn't all that relevant to the current discussion.

So you lies are relevent-- how big an idiot are you?

Answer not required-- it is obvious for all to see.


Don't blame me!  YOU are the nerdy one with all the obvious woman difficulties...can't say I'd blame them though, you probably jump up and down trying to lecture/convince anyone you come across about something or another.


 :D


Fathertime!   

[/size][size=78%] [/size]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 17, 2016, 09:30:19 AM
I'm sure glad that my ignore button works here Jay!  :rolleyes:  ( not for you either.) You might give a try.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 17, 2016, 06:13:18 PM
How slow are these Russian government guys to react? All they need to do is ask FT for economic "advice"   !!!! :)



Better me than you!  How many times have you stated Russia is collapsing 'next week' now? :popcorn:


Experts banks Barclays, Macquarie, Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Standard Chartered and Societe Generale believe that oil could fall to $ 10.  ( obvious they forgot to get the "expert" nonsense of FT!!- maybe a win-win situation again!!)


You are pretending to rejoice in something that hasn't happened yet...just as the 'Russian military defeat' hasn't...or the "Ukraine is retaking Crimea and marching to Moscow" ridiculousness....it shall be humorous to see what you concoct next, and present as fact.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on January 17, 2016, 06:25:01 PM
  Nick write that dozens of trucks have started to transfer assets Putin (most likely the property) from the residence of the President of Russia (where recently lived Vladimir Putin), in an unknown direction ...

I am no 'fan' of Putin, but such articles are 'bollox' ..I spend a lot of time in Sochi and Putin enjoys popular support... I do/did not detect any under-current of 'dissatisfaction' and I'm with BC..

As wrong as how Crimea was taken back - most people living there [ even if their ancestors were planted there  and the indigenous Tatars were eth. cleansed by Imperial Russia / USSR ] are pleased to be Russian...

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 17, 2016, 06:31:08 PM

Better me than you!  How many times have you stated Russia is collapsing 'next week' now? :popcorn:



You are pretending to rejoice in something that hasn't happened yet...just as the 'Russian military defeat' hasn't...or the "Ukraine is retaking Crimea and marching to Moscow" ridiculousness....it shall be humorous to see what you concoct next, and present as fact.


Fathertime!

Before I return to ignoring you-

1/How many times have you stated Russia is collapsing 'next week' now?

errr-never is the factual answer!!

2/or the "Ukraine is retaking Crimea and marching to Moscow"

errr-- never is the factual answer !!

You persist in inventing words and stories about events and people--it is called a lie>

So now-- you said it was a WIN-WIN situation for Ukraine to be invaded by Russia  with the subsequent loss of life and property-- let alone the loss of control over Ukrainian Sovereign territory !
You denied saying that-- but facts are--you said it on forum here-- and repeated it many times-- as you have also repeatedly parroted Kremlin troll  rationalisation of all Putin & Russia's craziness.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 17, 2016, 07:04:08 PM
Before I return to ignoring you-



yes yes, you will 'ignore'...right up until I make a post!   :ROFL:





1/How many times have you stated Russia is collapsing 'next week' now?

errr-never is the factual answer!!

2/or the "Ukraine is retaking Crimea and marching to Moscow"

errr-- never is the factual answer !!



Haha, bologna...


[/size] The collapse of the Russian economy is now not an "IF"-- but a "WHEN"!! 



You are mostly 'cut and paste' guy anyway...just trying to lay the blame on the links and their authors!


[/size]Fathertime!   [/size][/font]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 17, 2016, 07:04:55 PM
I am no 'fan' of Putin, but such articles are 'bollox'



Agree and it's a waste of space on this forum drowning out more important topics. Sanctions and low oil prices hurt Russia but Russia will be fine. They have access to much more oil and natural gas than the USSR did. Although prices are low, they have a lot to sell.


With all this anti Russian talk going on now, I wonder how bad this forum will get when Putin acts up again in Ukraine?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 17, 2016, 07:12:31 PM

Agree and it's a waste of space on this forum drowning out more important topics. Sanctions and low oil prices hurt Russia but Russia will be fine. They have access to much more oil and natural gas than the USSR did. Although prices are low, they have a lot to sell.


With all this anti Russian talk going on now, I wonder how bad this forum will get when Putin acts up again in Ukraine?

It beats some of the crap you sprout across the forum !
The article details a rumour-- maybe true yet!

Meanwhile
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20479.msg421932;topicseen#msg421932
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 17, 2016, 07:19:36 PM
It beats some of the crap you sprout across the forum !



No matter what crap people spout, you and a few others always drown them out. The last 22 out of 25 posts are anti Russian crap and politics. This broken record crap is getting old.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 18, 2016, 12:05:16 AM

The last 22 out of 25 posts are anti Russian crap and politics. This broken record crap is getting old.


That's why this thread is called, "Bad News For Russia".  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: [size=78%] If you want sweet, syrupy nonsense look elsewhere. [/size] :crackwhip: :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 18, 2016, 12:10:13 AM

No matter what crap people spout, you and a few others always drown them out. The last 22 out of 25 posts are anti Russian crap and politics. This broken record crap is getting old.


The forum is more of an article dump site now.  You can tell most people don't even bother reading since most articles rarely bring further discussion.  How many threads are just articles now?  I see a couple just logging in today.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on January 18, 2016, 12:11:14 AM
At least for a while this anti-ru stuff will go away - as soon as the elections really start picking up speed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on January 18, 2016, 12:17:57 AM
At least for a while this anti-ru stuff will go away - as soon as the elections really start picking up speed.


Wishful thinking there BC.  This thread has been going on since 2014. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on January 18, 2016, 12:32:16 AM

Wishful thinking there BC.  This thread has been going on since 2014.

operative words:  'At least for a while..' ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 18, 2016, 05:54:03 AM
Don't forget to 'glove up' the next time you visit Russia!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/18/the-forgotten-aids-crisis-in-russia.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 18, 2016, 02:24:35 PM
FT:
Quote
1.  Sanctions while harmful,  are not as harmful to Russia as certain people would like, because they are receiving strong dollars for their oil. 

Kindly visit the country of which you seem to know so much about. Stop in at a local neighborhood supermarket and tell some babushka whose food budget is half of what it used to be, and it wasn't much to begin with, why she can only eat one meal a day. In fact, remind her the good news that she is receiving strong dollars for oil.

While at it, swing by a My My (Moo Moo) restaurant just before closing time. They're all over Moscow and every night their employees create small meal packets to distribute to the elderly and poor at half price. Most are 49 rubles (.60 cents) for a small section of salad and some meat or carb. Watch as 2 or 3 widows count their money and hope to come up with enough to share a packet.

Next, enter the Metro system and walk thru the transfer station tunnels. At any given hour you will encounter the weakest of the weak--those elderly and sick who stand there, shaking in the cold, with a hand or hat thrust forward just hoping that someone will care. How much will you give, FT? For the record, I give every day because I could not live with myself if I turned a blind eye.

Then go to Revolution Plaza at the entry to Red Square. Stand near the "zero kilometre" marker. While tourists flippantly flip small change over their shoulders for good luck, watch the old men and old ladies scramble for that change. Those folk buy food with that change, FT, but you are the arsehole who thinks that they should be happy for strong dollars for oil.

FT, you are an ignorant fool. You don't have the goddarn brains to figure out that sanctions (especially the Kremlin's "reverse" sanctions) hurt the little folk a lot more than the 300-400 wealthy families at the top. You arrogantly foam at the mouth over strong oil dollars, but you have never been here and so you don't understand that Russia, a mafia state, is lived on two levels. There are those at the top who seem insulated from certain economic factors, but then there is the crushing weight of hopelessness that is lived out daily by the powerless.

Sometimes your ignorance is damn insulting. STFU.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 18, 2016, 04:29:04 PM
Let's hope FT write down some notes from today's online economics tutorial...
 :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 18, 2016, 05:30:09 PM
FT:
Kindly visit the country of which you seem to know so much about. Stop in at a local neighborhood supermarket and tell some babushka whose food budget is half of what it used to be, and it wasn't much to begin with, why she can only eat one meal a day. In fact, remind her the good news that she is receiving strong dollars for oil.

While at it, swing by a My My (Moo Moo) restaurant just before closing time. They're all over Moscow and every night their employees create small meal packets to distribute to the elderly and poor at half price. Most are 49 rubles (.60 cents) for a small section of salad and some meat or carb. Watch as 2 or 3 widows count their money and hope to come up with enough to share a packet.

Next, enter the Metro system and walk thru the transfer station tunnels. At any given hour you will encounter the weakest of the weak--those elderly and sick who stand there, shaking in the cold, with a hand or hat thrust forward just hoping that someone will care. How much will you give, FT? For the record, I give every day because I could not live with myself if I turned a blind eye.

Then go to Revolution Plaza at the entry to Red Square. Stand near the "zero kilometre" marker. While tourists flippantly flip small change over their shoulders for good luck, watch the old men and old ladies scramble for that change. Those folk buy food with that change, FT, but you are the arsehole who thinks that they should be happy for strong dollars for oil.

FT, you are an ignorant fool. You don't have the goddarn brains
to figure out that sanctions (especially the Kremlin's "reverse" sanctions) hurt the little folk a lot more than the 300-400 wealthy families at the top. You arrogantly foam at the mouth over strong oil dollars, but you have never been here and so you don't understand that Russia, a mafia state, is lived on two levels. There are those at the top who seem insulated from certain economic factors, but then there is the crushing weight of hopelessness that is lived out daily by the powerless.

Sometimes your ignorance is damn insulting. STFU.



Your anger doesn't cover for your inability to comprehend what I actually wrote,(Which is much different then the fictional post you are responding to) but I'm ok that you are so angry with me, and are are making up all sorts of things now in order to try to counter a point that I never made to begin with!  I can serve as your personal scapegoat!  I still firmly hold the position that it is better for Russia to be receiving strong US dollars for oil, rather than weak US dollars for oil...but let's see what else you can conjure up and run with.    :ROFL:


[/size] As someone who owns a business in the USA, I am well aware of the nation's economic pressures--much of it caused by a profoundly ignorant administration that with God's grace will be finished with the next elections cycle.

I was hoping you would 'grace' and regale the readership regarding all your 'inside knowledge' about how ignorant the current administration is towards your precious business..but you must have lost your nerve....or popped a vein.   


Fathertime!   


 



[/size][/font]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 18, 2016, 06:17:38 PM

  I still firmly hold the position that it is....blah....blah....blah....

Do you also firmly hold the view that the earth is flat, or all the other planets and the sun orbits the earth?
  :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 18, 2016, 07:11:01 PM
Do you also firmly hold the view that the earth is flat, or all the other planets and the sun orbits the earth?
  :popcorn:
Thank you for the opportunity to expand on why I believe this to be true. 


I firmly hold that Russia receiving strong dollars for oil is better than them receiving weak dollars for that same oil.  Of course it would be better still (for them) if they received MORE strong dollars than they are currently.  Keep in mind, I'm talking about strong US dollars as it pertains to the dollar's strength to currency's other than the Ruble.  A strong dollar that Russia receives can then be used to buy something in Euros or Pesos, or any other weaker currency (where trading is occurring) , of which there are a lot lately!


 :crackwhip:


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on January 18, 2016, 08:17:49 PM

That's why this thread is called, "Bad News For Russia".  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: [size=78%] If you want sweet, syrupy nonsense look elsewhere. [/size] :crackwhip: :crackwhip:


I previously said I don't like what Russia is doing. I previously said I want to see Ukraine prosper and get out from under Russia's foot. How many times do I got to repeat myself to get people to understand? How many thousands of times do you guys have to put Russia down? People got the point the first time. You don't like Russia, you don't like what their doing to Ukraine, and you hope they suffer. We get it.



The forum is more of an article dump site now.  You can tell most people don't even bother reading since most articles rarely bring further discussion.  How many threads are just articles now?  I see a couple just logging in today.


I've notice a few posters speaking out against the cluster fukc of anti Russian articles. Most stay silent and leave. People need to set their personal crusades aside or take it elsewhere for the benefit of the majority here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on January 18, 2016, 09:55:12 PM
Quote
billy b I've notice a few posters speaking out against the cluster fukc of anti Russian articles. Most stay silent and leave. People need to set their personal crusades aside or take it elsewhere for the benefit of the majority here.

many are busy with life and loved ones billy , including those of us who have family in ukraine and russia

im not anti russian , just hate how the gov there is conducting itself  ::)

personally i think both forums are a bit lop sided with their input , this one at least has some balance still
SX 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2016, 12:21:35 AM
Let's review things here for a bit BillyB,
 This section of RWD is called "RWD News from the Front", Subsection /Russian Front Discussion/. This thread is called, "More Bad News for Russia".


Many don't get the chance to see the news from the east so it's put up here.  If you want to see the sweet kind loving news of Russian aggression then dig up 'Good News for Russia'.


 If you don't agree with the content, Whatever!  Simply don't look at it.
 Stop grousing because it's not what you personally want to see.


 Personally I  think things are going to get interesting after the ruble crosses the 80/1 mark (probably later today) and really get wild after the 100/1 mark.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2016, 01:02:37 AM
Ouch!  That's gotta hurt bad.. :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
International Business Times: Russian oligarchs lose $11 billion in just 10 trading days due to weak rouble and rising oil prices


http://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/business/international-business-times-russian-oligarchs-lose-11-billion-in-just-10-trading-days-due-to-weak-rouble-and-rising-oil-prices-406102.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 19, 2016, 01:42:27 AM
FT:
Quote
Your anger doesn't cover for your inability to comprehend what I actually wrote

First, I quote you. If you don't have the intelligence to write something and then not recognize it as your own, stop typing.

Next, I'm not angry at all. I am indignant at your ignorance in the face of your bold theories.

You really do need to travel more if you are going to write about Russia. Your ignorance is appalling.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 19, 2016, 01:53:45 AM
many are busy with life and loved ones billy , including those of us who have family in ukraine and russia

im not anti russian , just hate how the gov there is conducting itself  ::)

personally i think both forums are a bit lop sided with their input , this one at least has some balance still
SX

SX-- as you know-- it is not about anyone being anti-Russian per se. Many who post here are in the same position as you-with relatives & friends on both side of the border. That is a lot more than a few commenting negatively about posts here can say.

Much as the anti -Ukrainian critics of everything Ukrainian and the pro-Rus excuse makers  don't like it-- we are now in the process of great change-really significant change is happening NOW.It seems despite the weight of material posted-- we have forum fools and trolls who still remain intent to show their ignorance.
As pointed out in other threads--many are now writing of potential outcomes

Quoting-
"First, I think what is clear is that Russia is now facing a much more difficult economic outlook than even a few months ago. The drop in oil prices over the past month, amid the Saudi-Iran schism, seems to have been the game-changer for Moscow – and survival of the regime seems to now be the name of the game (or at least there is serious concern how long Russia’s balance sheet can hold up to ensure social stability)."
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20479.msg422010#msg422010
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 19, 2016, 02:38:20 AM
I suspect that there will be some wild swings in the rubles value when it hit's 100/1.  It's only a psychological benchmark but it might be an important one for the Russian economy. It's beginning to snowball and gain momentum already.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2016, 09:37:54 AM
FT:
First, I quote you. If you don't have the intelligence to write something and then not recognize it as your own, stop typing.

Next, I'm not angry at all. I am indignant at your ignorance in the face of your bold theories.

You really do need to travel more if you are going to write about Russia. Your ignorance is appalling.


You must becoming a real illiterate nutbag or something, given how you 'read' my earlier post, and ran with it!


You are jumping up and down responding to something I did not say...and invoking images of starving old ladies to boot...all the whiile pumping yourself off as a modern day Robin Hood. 


Yeah ironically the overall strength of the dollar DOES benefit Russia since they are receiving strong dollars for their oil...those strong dollars can purchase more goods worldwide than weak dollars would.  Your blindness (and anger) on this point remains stunning.  Now let's see how you misrepresent the point I make next!!


"Indignant"..HA, not anger...yeah right! STFU as YOU would say!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 19, 2016, 02:41:49 PM
Again, you are writing out of ignorance. I am no Robin Hood, but I issue a challenge for you to come to Moscow for 2 weeks. Live in a local neighborhood and do a lot of walking.

Then write.

Until then, what you write about the Russian economy has less value than one kopek.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2016, 03:13:48 PM
Again, you are writing out of ignorance. I am no Robin Hood, but I issue a challenge for you to come to Moscow for 2 weeks. Live in a local neighborhood and do a lot of walking.

Then write.

Until then, what you write about the Russian economy has less value than one kopek.


I can go to 50 countries with rampant poverty, and don't need to entertain your challenge...many of which I've already seen plenty of. None of that changes (the isolated fact)that I wrote regarding strong dollars being better for for oil producing nations (Getting paid in dollars), than weak dollars.  Huff and puff all you need to, but you can't dance around that small point which remains correct. 


It is only your willful ignorance that enables you to continue to write the rubbish that you do, while attributing arguments to me that I did not make.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on January 19, 2016, 03:53:46 PM
Again, you are writing out of ignorance. I am no Robin Hood, but I issue a challenge for you to come to Moscow for 2 weeks. Live in a local neighborhood and do a lot of walking.

Then write.

Until then, what you write about the Russian economy has less value than one kopek.

Mendy.....there are others here who you should be challenging also.......

What is sad about RWD is people writing here are not offering information.......only affirmation. Feels like we have here the mirror image of RT.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 19, 2016, 04:05:35 PM
That is just garbage. The opportunity is there to post--why not do it.

I am guessing that you agree with the destructive censorship of the last 24 hours?

Fact is-- a couple of threads with updates -who can it hurt?

Like I said elsewhere--how many times do we have to read the same inane questions about "xyz"site?The smallest effort to search would see existing threads--aand the same people respond with the same answers everytime.
I said it before--there is much in the process right now that anyone interested in the FSU needs to be aware of--regardless .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 19, 2016, 04:13:04 PM

I can go to 50 countries with rampant poverty,

From which one of the 50 did you find your wife from?
 :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 19, 2016, 05:08:16 PM
Jay,
instead of the copy/paste political articles, many of us would probably find it more interesting if you posted things about your own PERSONAL experiences in Ukraine.

Take for example the topic of “beer", you being an Australian might have a different perspective than those of us who are American in regards to this subject.  I found that Obolon on tap was very smooth and had a nice hop flavor, definitely superior to Obolon in a bottle, and the tap version had a "premium" taste for a product whose brand would be considered to be mediocre .  I have had in the summer months beer from the “beer wagons”, which are street vendors who sell beer by the liter, but you have to bring your own container, I’ve had this both in Kyiv and Sevastopol.  In 1996, when I was enjoying a sabbatical in Kyiv (was my first trip there), after an evening at the opera I would walk over to a restaurant called “PanteGruel” have a late meal and have a few pints from the tap, I tried the Guiness on tap there and loved it and from then on stuck with that,  Guiness in a bottle never tasted even half as good as PantaGreul’s tap variety.

I never found Baltica on tap in Ukraine, Baltica #9 on tap would be interesting. 

So what of your beer experiences Jay?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 19, 2016, 05:31:11 PM


It is only your willful ignorance that enables you to continue to write the rubbish that you do, while attributing arguments to me that I did not make.



It  is rare to see a sentence with "ignorance" the subject and "enable" the verb.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Изумруд on January 19, 2016, 05:37:53 PM
Again, you are writing out of ignorance. I am no Robin Hood, but I issue a challenge for you to come to Moscow for 2 weeks. Live in a local neighborhood and do a lot of walking.

Then write.

Until then, what you write about the Russian economy has less value than one kopek.

Mendy, don't feed trolls!  You should know that from the other site.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 19, 2016, 05:53:15 PM


I firmly hold that Russia receiving strong dollars for oil is better than them receiving weak dollars for that same oil.  Of course it would be better still (for them) if they received MORE strong dollars than they are currently.  Keep in mind, I'm talking about strong US dollars as it pertains to the dollar's strength to currency's other than the Ruble.  A strong dollar that Russia receives can then be used to buy something in Euros or Pesos, or any other weaker currency (where trading is occurring) , of which there are a lot lately!



If oil were paid in euros or pounds, how would it matter?    Any other currency?  Not too many currency exchange markets can handle the equivalent of $2.5 billion/day.   

Are you sure all of Russia's oil exports are paid for in dollars?   How about Russia's long term deals such as oil to China or gas to Ukraine?  I have no idea how those long term deals are priced and paid.   You agree that some could be bartered trades.  Do these deals account for daily fluctuations in oil prices set in the oil futures market? 

When undertaking a huge investment in a new pipeline,  long term deals for gas or oil are frequently made concurrently.  Your point would be very valid if, for example, China agreed three years ago  to buy from Russia 0.5 million bbl/day for 20 years from Russia at a fixed price of $100/bbl.  But I doubt  such contracts were done without some adjustment clauses.


Reminds me of 1986 when visiting my friend in Moscow, the Dutch agricultural attaché.  In trying to sell Dutch cheese and butter to the Soviets, the Soviets offered to pay not in currency but only in cement. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2016, 06:56:45 PM

If oil were paid in euros or pounds, how would it matter?    Any other currency?  Not too many currency exchange markets can handle the equivalent of $2.5 billion/day.   



At long last somebody decides to discuss the issue rather than complain about the right to bring the subject up!


If Russia were paid in another currency that was weaker worldwide it would lesson their ability to parley said currency into goods for their country.  Dollars are extremely strong worldwide right now.  The dollar is at or near all time highs in a lot of currencies right now.  The Canadian Dollar, the Thai Baht, the Brazilian Real, The Mexican Peso, The Russian Ruble,...it is also pretty high against the Euro....there are more than I can easily list. 

Russia is able to bypass its own weak currency by using the dollars it receives from oil sales.   



Are you sure all of Russia's oil exports are paid for in dollars?   How about Russia's long term deals such as oil to China or gas to Ukraine?  I have no idea how those long term deals are priced and paid.   You agree that some could be bartered trades.  Do these deals account for daily fluctuations in oil prices set in the oil futures market? 

When undertaking a huge investment in a new pipeline,  long term deals for gas or oil are frequently made concurrently.  Your point would be very valid if, for example, China agreed three years ago  to buy from Russia 0.5 million bbl/day for 20 years from Russia at a fixed price of $100/bbl.  But I doubt  such contracts were done without some adjustment clauses.


I'd say "ALL" is too strong a word...there will always be some wheeling and dealing on the side, I agree...but generally Russia receives dollars for oil.  Russia has threatened to pull away from the dollar in favor of the Yuan.  That would likely ultimately harm us (THE US) and probably won't help them much in the short term. 


With the low oil prices (and commodities), many of our larger companies have been harmed.  Blue chip companies too....CVX, Chevron (SHares down big)  KMI, Kinder Morgan (down almost 75%) AA, ALCOA,(Down 65%) COP, Conoco Phillips (Down 50%). THat is only a few. Real people, and real money being lost by somebody....I suspect they will all bounce back as well Russia...


Fathertime! 






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 19, 2016, 07:05:57 PM
Ahh Gator--the answer is he does not know !

Really-- is it possible this guy is anything but a troll?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on January 19, 2016, 09:45:24 PM
Thank you for the opportunity to expand on why I believe this to be true. 


I firmly hold that Russia receiving strong dollars for oil is better than them receiving weak dollars for that same oil.  Of course it would be better still (for them) if they received MORE strong dollars than they are currently.  Keep in mind, I'm talking about strong US dollars as it pertains to the dollar's strength to currency's other than the Ruble.  A strong dollar that Russia receives can then be used to buy something in Euros or Pesos, or any other weaker currency (where trading is occurring) , of which there are a lot lately!


 :crackwhip:


Fathertime!

My goodness FT, you have had the simplest of formula demonstrating why your assertion is nonsense - yet you persist

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2016, 09:54:05 PM
My goodness FT, you have had the simplest of formula demonstrating why your assertion is nonsense - yet you persist


I've explained my reasoning...YOU have not.    The strong dollar is paid to and then ued by Russia for their oil, they are then able to use that strong dollar to buy from other countries a lot more than their own Ruble would otherwise get them...should be simple, except for a few here!


Ahh Gator--the answer is he does not know !

Really-- is it possible this guy is anything but a troll?


Haha, I guess you turned off your 'ignore' switch again just as soon as I posted!   
 :ROFL:


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on January 19, 2016, 09:54:53 PM

None of that changes (the isolated fact)that I wrote regarding strong dollars being better for for oil producing nations (Getting paid in dollars), than weak dollars.  Huff and puff all you need to, but you can't dance around that small point which remains correct. 

..and here you are - again -  disappointing whoever taught you maths..

2014 - prior to Crimea ..rouble at approx 35 dollar - oil c.100 usd / barrel = 3500 roubles

2016 - now rouble at 79 / dollar - oil at 30 USD / Barrel  = 2370 roubles - that's FIFTY percent less ...




Be careful throwing around accusations of ignorance whilst your assertions are based on a woeful inability to understand basic sums and even repeat the folly - once it is demonstrated to you 

 :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2016, 10:05:34 PM
..and here you are - again -  disappointing whoever taught you maths..

2014 - prior to Crimea ..rouble at approx 35 dollar - oil c.100 usd / barrel = 3500 roubles

2016 - now rouble at 79 / dollar - oil at 30 USD / Barrel  = 2370 roubles - that's FIFTY percent less ...




Be careful throwing around accusations of ignorance whilst your assertions are based on a woeful inability to understand basic sums and even repeat the folly - once it is demonstrated to you 

 :deadhorse:


You continue to not get it!




For the point I'm making it wouldn't matter if the Ruble was 100 to 1.  It is being BYPASSED when Russia receives dollars for oil they can convert those dollars directly to whatever currency/country they are dealing with! 


That said, I was never arguing that the declining Ruble was a positive for Russia, because not everything is abou oil/dollars...BUT since most of the world's currencies are also going down pretty fast too oil dollars do MITIGATE the negative effect for Russia since it receives a lot of dollars which it can then spend, with the ruble being out of the equation.   


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on January 19, 2016, 10:23:07 PM

You continue to not get it!

Says the guy discussing Dollars received by the nation whose currency is the rouble and whereby a conversion is ultimately made...



For the point I'm making it wouldn't matter if the Ruble was 100 to 1.  It is being BYPASSED when Russia receives dollars for oil they can convert those dollars directly to whatever currency/country they are dealing with! 

My very simple calculations prove otherwise..

Even if - by a miracle - oil stayed at 30/usd and the rouble was 100 to 1 - the Kremlin would be receiving less - nearly 20 percent- than two years earlier...

Most of us realise that the fall of the rouble is linked to oil prices.



That said, I was never arguing that the declining Ruble was a positive for Russia, because not everything is abou oil/dollars...BUT since most of the world's currencies are also going down pretty fast too oil dollars do MITIGATE the negative effect for Russia since it receives a lot of dollars which it can then spend, with the ruble being out of the equation.   


Fathertime!

But it is receiving a lot less strong dollars ... :deadhorse:

Plus, interest rates are higher, credit is more expensive ..

Spin on..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on January 19, 2016, 10:53:22 PM

I've explained my reasoning...YOU have not. 


Tut, tut, FT - Have you succumbed to fibbing.. the arithmetic used to burst your daft assertion was that of a 7/7 year old level

  The strong dollar is paid to and then ued by Russia for their oil, they are then able to use that strong dollar to buy from other countries a lot more than their own Ruble would otherwise get them...should be simple, except for a few here!

It seems you need reminding.

2014 - pre Crimea
oil 100/ barrel, rouble at 35/ 1 usd  =3500 roubles

2016 - being generous for you with pricing/ exchange rate

30 usd barrel, rouble at 79 = 2370 roubles

At some point these dollars become roubles - continue to delude yourself that they are going further ..

Any way you spin it Russia is a nation too reliant on oil/ gas revenues and they are less - way less - than 2 years ago ..'strong dollar' or not ..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2016, 11:06:06 PM
Says the guy discussing Dollars received by the nation whose currency is the rouble and whereby a conversion is ultimately made...



Who says the Dollar is converted into Rubles after the dollars are received by Russia?  Why would they go through the hassle of converting dollars to Rubles? Especially since the dollar is way more marketable...it certainly makes sense for them to bypass Rubles.


Even if - by a miracle - oil stayed at 30/usd and the rouble was 100 to 1 - the Kremlin would be receiving less - nearly 20 percent- than two years earlier...
When oil goes down it is not only Russia's currency that tanks, it is a boatload of nations currencies that also go down.  If you look around the world at the moment you will see for yourself, many nations have currencies at rock bottom verses the dollar.  Those that have dollars can get more for less of them. 




Most of us realise that the fall of the rouble is linked to oil prices.


I agree..there is clearly a link.




But it is receiving a lot less strong dollars ... :deadhorse:

Plus, interest rates are higher, credit is more expensive ..

Spin on..
Less dollars, but it takes less dollars to make purchases elsewhere...it doesn't make up for everything, but it does MITIGATE some of the damage...which continues to dovetail into the overall point that a strong dollar is better for RUssia than a weak dollar.   
I don't know who is loaning to Russia right now...Are you sure they are even a large debtor nation?


What is this garbage about 'spinning'.  You were making reasonable points until you started in on the silliness.


Fathertime!   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2016, 11:15:05 PM

Tut, tut, FT - Have you succumbed to fibbing.. the arithmetic used to burst your daft assertion was that of a 7/7 year old level

 


You are one of several that fail to get what should be an obvious point (Or at least pretend not to).  It is you that is proving to be daft.  I already suspect that most DO get it though, although maybe not...doesn't really matter but don't be too surprised wondering why Russia hasn't gone bankrupt when you think they should. 


 Your math figures are not important when the Ruble is bypassed...the strong dollar goes much farther than a weak one will...Check around the world's currencies, and where they are in terms of dollars currently, compared to where they have been historically. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2016, 11:27:34 PM
At some point these dollars become roubles - continue to delude yourself that they are going further ..


Not necessarily.  Why would they become Rubles if they don't need to? If you can show me that the oil dollars become Rubles prior to be used abroad, I will concede the point...but i don't think you can....because it isn't happening.  Will that mean that YOU deluding yourself? 





 
Any way you spin it Russia is a nation too reliant on oil/ gas revenues and they are less - way less - than 2 years ago ..'strong dollar' or not ..

Don't get me wrong, the low gas prices are obviously harming Russia overall as it is many other nations.   The strong dollar relative to other currencies helps Russia a little though...mitigates the harm at least to a certain extent...which has been the point I've been harping on.  Ironically if the dollar were to tank, AND oil prices were to remain low, it could be devastating to Russia...but that isn't likely to happen. 


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on January 19, 2016, 11:36:03 PM

Who says the Dollar is converted into Rubles after the dollars are received by Russia?  Why would they go through the hassle of converting dollars to Rubles? Especially since the dollar is way more marketable...it certainly makes sense for them to bypass Rubles.

My ggodness, are you really putting such daftness in print .... ;D

When oil goes down it is not only Russia's currency that tanks, it is a boatload of nations currencies that also go down.  If you look around the world at the moment you will see for yourself, many nations have currencies at rock bottom verses the dollar.  Those that have dollars can get more for less of them. 

Yes, but THIS  thread is about Russia and you already have had it pointed out that the worst effected currencies are those over-reliant on selling oil and that receiving payment in 'strong dollars' is not helping..





I agree..there is clearly a link.

Great... now all you have to do is the maths and understand that in Russia - things get paid for in the national currency

Try going into the local supermarket, or paying for electricity or petrol [ 'gas' ] in dollars and watch the reaction - before you are pointed out they accept ROUBLES...If you use ones non local bank card the conversion will be made from Roubles

Have you even BEEN to Russia..

Less dollars, but it takes less dollars to make purchases elsewhere...it doesn't make up for everything, but it does MITIGATE some of the damage...which continues to dovetail into the overall point that a strong dollar is better for RUssia than a weak dollar.   
I don't know who is loaning to Russia right now...Are you sure they are even a large debtor nation?

Ask the Chinese who are supplying much of the capital to build the pipelines that will supply .. China.

You still seem to be ignoring your simple maths lesson - it renders your assertion - now- as pure ignorance

What is this garbage about 'spinning'.  You were making reasonable points until you started in on the silliness.

..
Fathertime!

Well, how would you describe your repeated ignoring the simplest demonstrations of your very of 'silliness' ..the only conclusion can be it is wilful ..hence 'spin'..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on January 19, 2016, 11:41:33 PM

You are one of several that fail to get what should be an obvious point (Or at least pretend not to).  It is you that is proving to be daft.  I already suspect that most DO get it though, although maybe not...doesn't really matter but don't be too surprised wondering why Russia hasn't gone bankrupt when you think they should. 


 Your math figures are not important when the Ruble is bypassed...

 :D

ok, I'll bite.... Please tell us how Russia and Russians pay to live - day to day..Tell us in which currency the Police, Customs officials and other civil servants are paid.. What is the main source of Russian revenue and who pays in Roubles....

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 19, 2016, 11:50:00 PM
My ggodness, are you really putting such daftness in print .... ;D



Don't blame me for your own ignorance!   :D



Yes, but THIS  thread is about Russia and you already have had it pointed out that the worst effected currencies are those over-reliant on selling oil and that receiving payment in 'strong dollars' is not helping..

No.  You are becoming illiterate, as well as ignorant now!


Great... now all you have to do is the maths and understand that in Russia - things get paid for in the national currency

Try going into the local supermarket, or paying for electricity or petrol [ 'gas' ] in dollars and watch the reaction - before you are pointed out they accept ROUBLES...If you use ones non local bank card the conversion will be made from Roubles



Internal businesses...I.E. One Russian to another Russian...different subject that I was never addressing.  My assertion is, the dollars Russia receives are spent abroad to bring needed goods/services in.


Well, how would you describe your repeated ignoring the simplest demonstrations of your very of 'silliness' ..the only conclusion can be it is wilful ..hence 'spin'..

[/size]



If it were spin it would be disingenuous, which it isn't.  As far as I'm concerned, all you have demonstrated is an inability (or unwillingness) to understand the point.  I'm only repeating, because people like yourself are interested in engaging.  Yeah, the strong US dollar does unintentionally mitigate some of Russia's financial pressures. 


Fathertime!   



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 20, 2016, 12:02:00 AM
:D

ok, I'll bite.... Please tell us how Russia and Russians pay to live - day to day..Tell us in which currency the Police, Customs officials and other civil servants are paid.. What is the main source of Russian revenue and who pays in Roubles....




In Rubles of course. 


Oil of course!


Here is a nice flowchart for you to review


OIL------Dollars------imported goods (Purchased in dollars)---------Russian Consumer (Paid in Rubles)....
                                                OR
Russian produced consumer goods------Russian Consumer (Paid in Rubles)


Lets see your flowchart. 




Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Slumba on January 20, 2016, 12:38:21 AM

If it were spin it would be disingenuous, which it isn't.  As far as I'm concerned, all you have demonstrated is an inability (or unwillingness) to understand the point.  I'm only repeating, because people like yourself are interested in engaging.  Yeah, the strong US dollar does unintentionally mitigate some of Russia's financial pressures. 


Fathertime!

It may mitigate a portion of it.  You seem unwilling to admit that this mitigation is only *partial* however.  Otherwise an exchange rate of 1000 RUB : 1 USD would be even better, right?

Just because, instead of losing $1, you only lose 75 cents, doesn't mean that there was no loss.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 20, 2016, 01:04:35 AM

Don't blame me for your own ignorance!   :D

No.  You are becoming illiterate, as well as ignorant now!

Internal businesses...I.E. One Russian to another Russian...different subject that I was never addressing.  My assertion is, the dollars Russia receives are spent abroad to bring needed goods/services in.



If it were spin it would be disingenuous, which it isn't.  As far as I'm concerned, all you have demonstrated is an inability (or unwillingness) to understand the point.  I'm only repeating, because people like yourself are interested in engaging.  Yeah, the strong US dollar does unintentionally mitigate some of Russia's financial pressures. 


Fathertime!

Your attacks on Mendy shows just how ignorant you are.  He is probably the most honest, sincere, transparent, and best informed member we have on Russian affairs.  Most of us listen to what he says and accept his journalism as factual. 

For you enlightenment, Mendy has been and still appears to be very pro-Russian (people), but anti-Putin for what he has done to the Ukrainian people and the Russian people based upon Putin's actions.  I think (opinion) most of us were neutral or somewhat pro-Russian prior to Putin's "little green men" confiscating Crimea.  Now that we have seen the true character of Putin and his people (subjects) endorsing his actions, many of us would not be disappointed to see him eliminated.

If you support tyrants like this, please don't pass yourself off as a normal American.  We have higher values than you have and some of us would be happy to contribute to a one-way ticket for you to leave the USA and join Comrade Putin!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 20, 2016, 01:42:47 AM
FT, here is a goodnight melody for you from comrad Putin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV4IjHz2yIo&feature=youtu.be

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on January 20, 2016, 04:21:42 AM



In Rubles of course. 


Oil of course!


Here is a nice flowchart for you to review


OIL------Dollars------imported goods (Purchased in dollars)---------Russian Consumer (Paid in Rubles)....
                                                OR
Russian produced consumer goods------Russian Consumer (Paid in Rubles)


Lets see your flowchart. 




Fathertime!

FT, I'm sure you're a great bloke in the bar, but I'm not playing any more .... I don't like on-sided anti-Russian or anti-American stuff, but at least most posters I 'chew the fat with' know when to quit when behind..

For the sanity of the board, I'm also putting you on ignore.

Your daft notions about how things work - particularly in Russia where - apart from the govt / oligarchs who are matey with

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on January 20, 2016, 06:20:51 AM
And here comes the inevitable 80.....

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-ruble-slides-record-low-112216305.html

A wheelbarrow to cart your rubles around anyone?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Wayne on January 20, 2016, 07:12:34 AM
One thing that I find unusual is that in Russia and Ukraine you can have a bank account in US dollars. You can do all business in US dollars. When people buy or sell property, the transaction can be in US dollars. If you have a mortgage, it can be in US dollars. All large, important transactions can be in dollars.
 
True, is you buy food and other products, you pay in the local currency. However, there is usually a place very close to the store where you can exchange dollars.
 
Say, you hire a private car with driver for a certain amount of days, you would probably pay him in dollars.
 
You can wire money to Russia and Ukraine in US dollars. Also true for Western Union and MoneyGram.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 20, 2016, 07:36:56 AM
It may mitigate a portion of it.  You seem unwilling to admit that this mitigation is only *partial* however.  Otherwise an exchange rate of 1000 RUB : 1 USD would be even better, right?

Just because, instead of losing $1, you only lose 75 cents, doesn't mean that there was no loss.


Well Slumba, obviously there is a loss.  I was merely saying the dollar mitigates a part of that loss.  All along I agreed with what  you wrote above.  It has been interesting watch certain individuals blow gaskets though because I had the audacity to point out this fact!


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 20, 2016, 07:48:06 AM
Your attacks on Mendy shows just how ignorant you are.  He is probably the most honest, sincere, transparent, and best informed member we have on Russian affairs.  Most of us listen to what he says and accept his journalism as factual. 
 
 


Obviously you want to believe that I 'attacked' him first without reason...Demonstrates your bias... 


FT, I'm sure you're a great bloke in the bar, but I'm not playing any more .... I don't like on-sided anti-Russian or anti-American stuff, but at least most posters I 'chew the fat with' know when to quit when behind..

For the sanity of the board, I'm also putting you on ignore.

Oh no another 'ignore' poster...If I had a nickel for every time somebody promised to put me on 'ignore' I'd have 100 dollars! 


I don't care what you 'like', and it isn't 'anti american' to say that the dollar is strong against a smorgasbord of currencies...which means that those that have those dollars (Russia in this case), can get a lot of bang for their buck.


Fathertime! 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on January 20, 2016, 12:05:34 PM
One thing that I find unusual is that in Russia and Ukraine you can have a bank account in US dollars. You can do all business in US dollars. When people buy or sell property, the transaction can be in US dollars.

Not entirely true anymore for Ukraine.

Current rules require that real estate transactions be only in UAH.

Large companies adhere to this rule.

Perhaps with private transactions, the rule is broken . . . but it may get harder and harder to register such transactions in the future.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on January 20, 2016, 08:26:48 PM
Not entirely true anymore for Ukraine.

Current rules require that real estate transactions be only in UAH.

Large companies adhere to this rule.

Perhaps with private transactions, the rule is broken . . . but it may get harder and harder to register such transactions in the future.

The bank rules keep chaning in Ukraine.  Prior to my wife arriving in the USA, I was transfering USD to her account in Kiev.  For some reason she was allowed to only withdraw money in Grivna.  When I am there in Kiev, I can go into the bank and withdraw USD from my American debit card after showing my US passport (assuming theyhad any USD on hand).

Don't know if this has changed, but it is how it was a little over a year ago.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 20, 2016, 10:03:34 PM
The bank rules keep chaning in Ukraine.  Prior to my wife arriving in the USA, I was transfering USD to her account in Kiev.  For some reason she was allowed to only withdraw money in Grivna.  When I am there in Kiev, I can go into the bank and withdraw USD from my American debit card after showing my US passport (assuming theyhad any USD on hand).

Don't know if this has changed, but it is how it was a little over a year ago.


All sorts of money rules changed in Ukraine when they instituted capital controls, due to their currency dropping like a rock.  They are attempting to limit the use of foreign currency. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 21, 2016, 02:50:27 AM
Perhaps with private transactions, the rule is broken . . . but it may get harder and harder to register such transactions in the future.


 True! When I was buying this house the seller demanded USD and refused the same amount in Hyrivna.  Aval bank said later that all real estate transactions are required to be in Hyrivna. 


 Other parcels from larger companies were handled in Hyrivna.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 21, 2016, 03:18:32 AM
For those that still dont get it-- this is putting incredible pressure on Kremlin. They don't have the cash to support the currency and whatever they do-chances it will be the wrong move.
For the dummies who do not get why any of this matters--it will create serious instability within Russia. ( yes-I do need to spell it for some here-- who dont seem to get the connection!!) ;D

1.00 USD   =   84.0299 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 84.0299 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0119005 USD


Oil at $26

Added-

nearly 86 now !
http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/01/21/rouble-meltdown-dollar-breaches-rbs85/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 21, 2016, 03:24:01 AM
Unless the state starts taking steps quickly Russia may have a meltdown by Valentines Day.  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on January 21, 2016, 04:15:31 AM
Unless the state starts taking steps quickly Russia may have a meltdown by Valentines Day.  :crackwhip:

I think the key will be controlling inflation and capital flight.  If that is kept under control in the long run it might not be so bad.  Yes prices for imported products will obviously go way up in short order, but that will likely cause more demand for local products, a side benefit of low exchange rates.  RU may impose price controls for the basic necessities.

Remember that for a long period of time the USD was artificially kept low against other foreign currencies to fight the trade deficit. Near zero interest rates will also have a cost going forward. Obviously the decline of the RUB and oil prices is a huge heads up showing the need for the RU economy to further expand into other non-energy production and industries.  Also remember that RU has experienced such crisis in the past.  One should not underestimate the resiliency of their internal economy.  Yes, at least for a while luxury items will come at a premium and it will take some time to adapt to recent dramatic changes.  But one thing is sure, they have resources and will adapt. 

I highly doubt RUB will fail and am confident they have the will and capacity to recover.

Just a matter of time IMHO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 21, 2016, 07:46:57 AM
Unless the state starts taking steps quickly Russia may have a meltdown by Valentines Day.  :crackwhip:


I've heard the 'meltdown' talk before a few dozen times.  I really don't think so.  As was already pointed out, when imports go up too much they won't be purchased as often, if at all. 


In Cuba families live on 20USD a month! They do not live well, but life goes on.  Russia will not be subjected to that type of money shortage, but I have serious doubts they will ever be choked off.  They have enough resources to make most of what they require....and the strong dollars they continue to receive for oil does give them cash for purchases on the open market. 




Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 21, 2016, 07:51:37 AM
For those that still dont get it-- this is putting incredible pressure on Kremlin. They don't have the cash to support the currency and whatever they do-chances it will be the wrong move.
For the dummies who do not get why any of this matters--it will create serious instability within Russia. ( yes-I do need to spell it for some here-- who dont seem to get the connection!!) ;D

1.00 USD   =   84.0299 RUB
US Dollar   ↔   Russian Ruble
1 USD = 84.0299 RUB   1 RUB = 0.0119005 USD


Oil at $26

Added-

nearly 86 now !
http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/01/21/rouble-meltdown-dollar-breaches-rbs85/ (http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/01/21/rouble-meltdown-dollar-breaches-rbs85/)


I think you are overestimating the pressure on Russia. You never would have believed Russia would have survived with oil this low, yet it has!   I do know that our own economies are beginning to suffer, the enormous declines in the stock markets, and even oil, are often a grim harbinger. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on January 21, 2016, 09:36:24 AM

I think you are overestimating the pressure on Russia. You never would have believed Russia would have survived with oil this low, yet it has!   I do know that our own economies are beginning to suffer, the enormous declines in the stock markets, and even oil, are often a grim harbinger. 


Fathertime!

FT,
I think that many believe that the US economy is totally independent.  It is of course not the case.  The global economy is an ecosphere where the downside of one part affects the other.  China is the major factor in play now, but is 'driven' by demand from other countries, thus when economics in china turns negative it's a leading indicator that demand worldwide is dwindling.  I really think the next crisis will be the US rather than elsewhere.  Where there is a bubble, it will burst and right now I see a huge bubble in the US financial markets.  What goes up will come down.. the laws of gravity and equilibrium will prevail.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 21, 2016, 11:08:26 AM
The idea of a strong dollar trickling down to the everyday Russian is pure stupidity. It is the voice of ignorance.

First, import restriction (reverse sanctions) mean that imports for the common man are simply disappearing from the shelves. Then, the price of domestic replacements has skyrocketed, and those are of dubious quality.

Recently we were shopping in a Victoria supermarket, a popular chain. We wanted ice cream and I watched as my wife pored over the labels very carefully. Over and over again she put the containers back in the freezer while explaining that some sort of oil/fat had replaced the milk. She didn't place any ice cream in the basket that I was dutifully pushing. Next we went to the sour cream and butter, and the same scenario played out. She sighed and picked one container of sour cream with the expression "we'll try it," and then she proceeded to eventually do the same with butter.

The rumour, and I have no idea if it is true, is that dairy products from the Tula (Russia) area contain real milk. She told me that when out and about if I found any dairy product produced in Tula that I should buy it and bring it home.

When McDonalds was forced to give up the fantastic McD farm and production centre years ago, the idea was that McD had taught Russian farmers how to produce quality food products in mass. The idea was that what they had started was an incubator from which Russians could expand. The theory might work in many nations, but Russia remains a mafia state and ownership of any sizable industry is owned at the top. They have little motivation for change and innovation, and thus Russia has continued to import even the most simple foodstuffs from neighbors such as Ukraine, Poland and Finland, etc.

The Kroshka Kartoshka "little potato" chain was among the first foreign firms that discovered the need for consistent product (potatoes for baking) simply were not in supply when the chain was founded. In the early days, before the British owner was chased out of Russia upon threat of his life, the owner was out in the fields teaching Russian farmers who knew how to grow potatoes in bulk, how to produce a spud that was consistent in size and quality for his cafes. That took several years, but over time those individual farms were taken over, most by force, by those with ties to Oligarchs.

Reverse sanctions imposed by the Kremlin was touted as a way to kick-start domestic food production. The only thing that has been kicked are the asses of little consumers. Quality is miserable, as is consistency of production.

The biggest game today is to discern which products are really imports, but labeled as domestic to get around reverse sanctions confiscation. Those cost a lot more but the quality is light years ahead of domestic products in most cases. When Mr. Putin complained that he did not wish for Ukraine to adopt EU standards, he rightly admitted that it would elevate Ukrainian goods to a level at which Russia simply could not compete.

Today the ruble is at 85.

Russian consumers, those who live here and understand what they are seeing, are not rejoicing over some "strong dollar" myth.

They are dismayed. Perhaps they know that they are taking about.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 21, 2016, 11:34:56 AM
mendeleyev,
 the information I receive frome my weekly skype conversations with friends/family in Sevastopol are in-line with your experiences.  much higher prices in Crimea now, the quality of Russian goods is much less than Ukrainian or foreign ones that are no longer available.  Most Ukrainian cities have a large out-door shopping area, kind of like a swap-meet and farmer’s market rolled into one, the ones in Kyiv and Odessa are enormous, Sevastopol’s was smaller and known as the “Fifth Kilometer Market” and was located on the road to Balaclava.  A lot of the goods came from Turkey, local entrepreneurs would make the trip by ferry to Istanbul and buy wholesale and resell in the Fifth Kilometer Market, this doesn’t take place now because Crimeans aren’t allowed contact with Turkey, this also means fruit/vegetables from Turkey (whose favorable climate gives it two growing seasons) are no longer avaliable in the winter months like they used to be.  the weak ruble has also pushed up prices on “Teknica”, cellphones, computers, etc cost 3X what they used to cost before Russian annexation

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 21, 2016, 11:46:02 AM
BTW, Russia is not going to implode in my opinion. True, they are up against a massive deficit this year, but nowhere near the type deficits that the USA accumulates for instance.

They key to watch is how much they get squeezed by the Chinese in 2016. Trade was off by 50% with China by the end of 2015 and Beijing ended up renegotiating every single one of the agreements made in early and mid 2015. That has hurt the state, which benefits mostly from such deals.

Social service cuts are getting deeper, especially in transportation recently. You may have seen stories of small protest rallies in some regions. In a nutshell, transportation benefits were cut for seniors, veterans, and students who formally had a free ride on most systems. Today the free rides are mostly limited to the city in which one is formally registered.

Ex: we live just outside the Moscow city limits. My MIL, who is registered at an apartment inside the city limits, can still use her benefit inside Moscow city limits. However, now if she were to take a bus from our suburb to Moscow, she'd have to pay for that service. For low income seniors and veterans in villages, that is a blow as now they must pay just to get to where they can shop, see a doctor, etc.

Even with these protests, most of the protesters have directed their ire at local government officials who do oversee such services. Nobody seems willing to point the finger at the source where local governments get that funding--the Kremlin.

I believe that as long as the Kremlin media piles on the anti-Western blame for everything under the sun, the little people will continue to "take one for the team" and give the Kremlin a free pass.

There is one thing that has in particular swung back to the Soviet era: humour. Back in Soviet times the humour was fairly sarcastic against the government, a natural impulse when you understand what is wrong but are powerless to make change. The same intimidation is creeping back into the social fabric and folk are fearful of making waves.

That form of humour has resurfaced, and was in full display recently after a deadly apartment elevator crash. Two jokes that I heard from Russians were:

- That elevator accident was not caused by the fault of any Russians; the elevator (manufactured by OTIS) was a Western Trojan horse installed by NATO engineers.

and

- That elevator accident was caused because the elevator inspectors had been sent "on holiday" as little green men to Eastern Ukraine.

Both were meant and delivered as sarcastic humour.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on January 21, 2016, 12:47:24 PM
. . . showing the need for the RU economy to further expand into other non-energy production and industries. 

Perhaps in the production of shoes for export.

I hear those were quite good in Soviet times.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 21, 2016, 03:53:50 PM
Shoe production in the 1950s, for example, was robust if all one considers is numbers. Led by the Kalinin boot factory in Minsk and Gomel, Soviet shoemakers produced an average of six pairs annually for every man, woman and child. The only problem was that they couldn't sell them all, even to Soviet satellite nations due to issues of quality. Citizens wore them only as a last resort, instead opting to stand in long lines when imports appeared.

The exceptions were a tall fur lined work boot made by the Minsk factory, and an Italian knockoff that was known to fall apart after a few months but at least it looked fashionable before self destruction.

During the Brezhnev era factories were ordered to vastly increase production but they had limited materials. So, to keep up with the numbers required the factories made only smaller shoes for children. They met their production quota for the number of shoes created, but the consequence led to a wide shortage for awhile in adult sizes. Lines got very long at that point.

There is a "Soviet" brand shoe that is sold today, online. It replicates the styles of those years but made (in South Africa) with the quality that the Soviets never mastered. Order here: http://www.zando.co.za/shoes/soviet/



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 21, 2016, 04:07:12 PM
Shoe production would only lead to defeat
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 21, 2016, 04:10:16 PM
The idea of a strong dollar trickling down to the everyday Russian is pure stupidity. It is the voice of ignorance.



Nice to see the voice of 'ignorance and stupidity' once again.  I was curious to see if you were interested in continuing to whinily distort what I said once again.  I am not disappointed.   Lets recall YOUR addition to my original statement which I quote here:
     Since oil is usually purchased in dollars,oil producing  nations such as Russia are receiving very strong dollars for their oil, which does lesson the impact of the weak Ruble. Fathertime!

So Mr Whinyface, it has been you that continue to add in all the stuff about 'ordinary Russian people'.  A group I did not expressly single out, as you have.   The strong dollar for their oil does indeed benefit Russia, more than if the dollar was weak...that should be obvious.    You are a little afraid to admit you read more into my statement than I actually wrote, so I should expect the perpetuation of your distortion...for the purpose of saving  face....nothing more, and certainly not the truth of my statement, despite what a few of your sycophant fanboys cheer about. 
:-*

Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 21, 2016, 04:16:55 PM
BTW, Russia is not going to implode in my opinion. True, they are up against a massive deficit this year, but nowhere near the type deficits that the USA accumulates for instance.




Of course there is a bit of a difference in the debt we (The US) runs up vs Russia.  We are able to print money and get away with it to this point...So we can (and have) run 1 trillion dollar deficits....Russia will not be doing that...but they obviously have a rapidly declining reserve.    That doesn't mean they have to collapse, they can take other steps.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 21, 2016, 04:53:42 PM
So Mr Whinyface, it has been you that continue to add in all the stuff about 'ordinary Russian people'.  A group I did not expressly single out, as you have.

Fathertime, why do you not include the "ordinary" people?

The strong dollar for their oil does indeed benefit Russia, more than if the dollar was weak...that should be obvious.

This is rubbish, and even you should realise it.  The strong dollar does not benefit "Russia" (which includes the "ordinary people") in the slightest - it benefits the oligarchs and the Kremlin alone.  They are NOT Russia, and have absolutely no interest in sharing any such "benefits."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 21, 2016, 05:09:49 PM
 The answer to Russia’s over-dependence on fossil fuel and mineral extraction industries was to diversify Russia’s economy through the “Skolkovo Innovation Center” which was hailed to be Russia’s “Silicon Steppe” however the $15 billion project looks to be more of a Potemkin Village than a hi-tech innovation center.  It looks like about $4 billion of the project’s funds have already been siphoned-off.  If any of the foreign partners have a look at Russia’s TV, they’ll soon realize that their employees aren’t wanted there.  Then there’s the “brain drain”, the reality is that Russia’s “best and brightest” are leaving Russia at a rapid pace, so there isn’t as much talent to harness as was originally planned, and Russia’s current economy doesn’t have any funds for future development. The latest building project of the Skolkovo Innovation Center was a golf course that remains un-used

As someone who founded what was the largest software development company in Crimea, I can tell you that years ago I would’ve jumped at a chance to do a start-up in Skolkovo, but now I wouldn’t touch it, no matter what incentives would be handed out.  Of the 12 developers I hired and had to lay-off in Crimea in 2014, more than half have left, and of the ones who stayed none are currently employed in a high-tech field, and I expect that slowly the remaining ones will also leave.  I really was someone “with fire in the belly” about working over there and developing products and training the young people there.  Now I just laugh about it.  Ukraine or Russia, it doesn’t really matter, a stupid government run by oligarchs, whose only purpose is to steal as much as they can.  There can be no steps forward in either country because of this. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 21, 2016, 06:08:54 PM
Fathertime, why do you not include the "ordinary" people?




Kiwi, my statement didn't exclude 'ordinary' people..


 

This is rubbish, and even you should realise it.  The strong dollar does not benefit "Russia" (which includes the "ordinary people") in the slightest -


Not in the slightest?  That is an exaggeration.
1. Nations that can produce (in this case oil) for less (wages) do have a competitive advantage over those that can not.  In that sense it can become a race to the bottom.  So from that standpoint there is a benefit to the Russian energy industry, which is obviously huge, so long as it receives strong dollars and pays out weaker Rubles to employees. 
2.  If you believe all the benefit goes to the Kremlin, and 'ordinary' people see no benefit whatsoever than I won't argue that belief...even if I question it. 
3.  In addition, if dollars were weaker, then it would just mean less ability to spend for whoever winds up with all the dollars for oil in Russia....You argue oligarchs/kremlin only, I'm not entirely convinced on that one.
4.  As I've mentioned numerous times, I did not say low oil was good for Russia, obviously it is not.  Having a stronger dollar though does mitigate some of the damage...They do receive a lot of dollars because they produce a lot of oil.  Somewhere in the vicinity of 10,000,000 barrels a day....probably more.   
5.  Reports of Russia's collapse have been greatly exaggerated...although I'm sure there is more suffering now. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 21, 2016, 07:45:28 PM
The bank rules keep chaning in Ukraine.  Prior to my wife arriving in the USA, I was transfering USD to her account in Kiev.  For some reason she was allowed to only withdraw money in Grivna.  When I am there in Kiev, I can go into the bank and withdraw USD from my American debit card after showing my US passport (assuming theyhad any USD on hand).

Don't know if this has changed, but it is how it was a little over a year ago.

My wife has a US $ account with Privat. I successfully transfer US $ to her every month via Privat.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 21, 2016, 09:03:54 PM
BTW, Russia is not going to implode in my opinion. True, they are up against a massive deficit this year, but nowhere near the type deficits that the USA accumulates for instance.


There is a vast fundamental difference  in a US deficit. The sheer size and diversity of the US economy   should not be compared to recalcitrant economies like Russia.  Russia had the opportunity to become a powerhouse economy but the kleptocracy robbed Russia of that opportunity. The natural resources advantage was not used to improve Russia fro the Russian people- and even now we see money being spent on the military - not on infrastructure.

What all that equals is that Russia is ill equipped to handle the change in circumstance--implode-- mmm maybe not--but it will collapse by any normal definition of economic performance.

That is what the Kremlin is desperate to avoid-Putin thought he could outlast sanctions and get what he set out to do.Now-- they are trying to negotiate.The problem is that now--everyone seems to understand the posturing and attempts to standover. Eg-- now we have upgraded attacks in eastern Ukraine-- as we have seen repeatedly when any negotiating was imminent-- so overall  Putin and Russia are out of effective tricks-- and money!
Implode? Collapse? maybe not-- but it will only be avoided by very significant  climbdowns by Putin and Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 22, 2016, 01:34:35 AM
Kiwi:
Quote
The strong dollar does not benefit "Russia" (which includes the "ordinary people") in the slightest - it benefits the oligarchs and the Kremlin alone.  They are NOT Russia, and have absolutely no interest in sharing any such "benefits."

You get it. It is the difference between experience and conjecture.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 22, 2016, 01:41:41 AM
Making the rounds:

Russian father comes home and brings the bad news: "My wages got cut in half due to the sanctions and recession."
His young child, with hope in his eyes: "Papa, will you be drinking less now?"
Father: "No, but you will be eating less."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 22, 2016, 10:47:55 AM

1. Nations that can produce (in this case oil) for less (wages) do have a competitive advantage over those that can not.  In that sense it can become a race to the bottom.  So from that standpoint there is a benefit to the Russian energy industry, which is obviously huge, so long as it receives strong dollars and pays out weaker Rubles to employees. 

WRONG!   Reduced labor costs help but not significantly because operating labor is not the major determinant of the cost of extracting and delivering oil.   Even if Russian oil workers worked for free (which they might be forced to doing), Russian oil still could not compete with Saudi oil.  US shale costs $40-70/bbl to produce, Russia onshore $50/bbl, Saudi Arabia $10. 

Quote
2.  If you believe all the benefit goes to the Kremlin, and 'ordinary' people see no benefit whatsoever than I won't argue that belief...even if I question it. 

WRONG!  Kiwi wrote,  "The strong dollar does not benefit 'Russia'..."  So there is no benefit to the Kremlin  or the people.   This is another of many examples proving you do not read, do not comprehend what is read, or choose to twist what is written.   

Quote
3.  In addition, if dollars were weaker, then it would just mean less ability to spend for whoever winds up with all the dollars for oil in Russia....You argue oligarchs/kremlin only, I'm not entirely convinced on that one.

WRONG!   If the dollar were weaker, the dollar price per bbl would be higher.


Quote
4.  As I've mentioned numerous times, I did not say low oil was good for Russia, obviously it is not.  Having a stronger dollar though does mitigate some of the damage...They do receive a lot of dollars because they produce a lot of oil.  Somewhere in the vicinity of 10,000,000 barrels a day....probably more.   


WRONG!  Russia produces about 10 Mbbl/day, but uses much domestically.  It exports about 7 Mbbl/day.   And that number is declining because of lack of new investment and reduced maintenance.  Saudi Arabia is slowly winning the market share war. 

Quote
5.  Reports of Russia's collapse have been greatly exaggerated...although I'm sure there is more suffering now.   


CORRECT!  You are 1 out of 5 today - an average day for you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on January 22, 2016, 11:09:24 AM
The thought of Russia collapsing is absurd to me.  And the world needs to be very careful.  Putin strikes me as a leader who, if pushed to the edge of collapse, would do something to threaten if not harm Saudi oil production and thereby drive up the price of oil. 

How would he accomplish such?   Before Obama's nuclear weapon treaty with Iran, I would say he could have encouraged Iran to escalate a conflict with Saudi Arabia in Yemen or start a new one in the Gulf.  Iran may still do this, but after the treaty they probably want to try diplomatic means for a while.

Putin's increased role in Syria could eventually be played into some sort of threat to peace, but this would take too much time while Russia's economy suffers. 

So what are the remaining options?  Does Putin have the balls to fund a terrorist attack (e. g., dirty bomb) of oil fields in Saudi's Shia populated areas?  Many believe he bombed apartment building in Moscow to help his election campaign. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 23, 2016, 03:38:03 PM
The bad news keeps rolling in!Not to long ago we were being force fed the BS that all was good in Russia as a new deal with China was better that any others! A few knowledgeable people commented then that China would eat Russia alive !Now it is happening--with China either moving on--or renegotiating contracts to a new reality!! :D


Russia was hit in the jaw by China, or very bad news for the Russian Federation

 
China pretty quickly and effectively has replaced Russia as a supplier of oil Iran, Saudi Arabia and the US.

http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/rossyya-poluchyla-udar-v-chelyust-ot-kytaya-yly-ochen-plohye-novosty-dlya-rf/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 23, 2016, 05:23:02 PM

Mods, thx.

Now, if we could only get rid of the bold 34 point font.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on January 23, 2016, 09:25:57 PM
WRONG!   Reduced labor costs help but not significantly because operating labor is not the major determinant of the cost of extracting and delivering oil.   Even if Russian oil workers worked for free (which they might be forced to doing), Russian oil still could not compete with Saudi oil.  US shale costs $40-70/bbl to produce, Russia onshore $50/bbl, Saudi Arabia $10. 


WRONG!  What I said about lower wages is true.  It is a benefit. I didn't say it was the only factor though.




WRONG!  Kiwi wrote,  "The strong dollar does not benefit 'Russia'..."  So there is no benefit to the Kremlin  or the people.   This is another of many examples proving you do not read, do not comprehend what is read, or choose to twist what is written.   



Ok lets see what Kiwi wrote just to show you are indeed incapable of reading.


  The strong dollar does not benefit "Russia" (which includes the "ordinary people") in the slightest - it benefits the oligarchs and the Kremlin alone.  They are NOT Russia, and have absolutely no interest in sharing any such "benefits."




WRONG!   If the dollar were weaker, the dollar price per bbl would be higher.

Although this is likely true, it is not the only scenario...therefore you are once again WRONG, by making this a definitive statement. 




 

WRONG!  Russia produces about 10 Mbbl/day, but uses much domestically.  It exports about 7 Mbbl/day.   And that number is declining because of lack of new investment and reduced maintenance.  Saudi Arabia is slowly winning the market share war. 
 
WRONG!  your statement does not contradict my statement. 


 
CORRECT!  You are 1 out of 5 today - an average day for you.


You had Zero statements correct...that is normal for you.....


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 26, 2016, 10:57:39 PM
WRONG!  your statement does not contradict my statement. 
Fathertime!

FT, all Russian companies must convert the dollar transactions to the Ruble
immediately. It's the law. 1

While you are correct that there are some benefits to a high dollar, this
benefited the old Soviet Union as well because the old Soviet Union (and
Russia today) needed hard currency to pay for foreign goods.

There are also many, many disadvantages as well.

I am sure that most will agree that the plunging Ruble hurts Russia far
more than it helps them. I didn't read all the comments here but I think
most would agree.

1. http://www.wsj.com/articles/russians-seek-to-soften-impact-of-ruble-depreciation-1439891343
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 26, 2016, 11:18:48 PM
I think the key will be controlling inflation and capital flight.  If that is kept under control in the long run it might not be so bad.  Yes prices for imported products will obviously go way up in short order, but that will likely cause more demand for local products, a side benefit of low exchange rates.  RU may impose price controls for the basic necessities.

I highly doubt RUB will fail and am confident they have the will and capacity to recover.

Just a matter of time IMHO.
The key of your point is to keep inflation under control. I don't see how they can do this.
Russia is very bad at making things that anyone wants to buy, even Russians. They can
protect their industries but it just makes everything more expensive.

They can't control inflation, that's the problem as you've alluded to. Russian factories
make substandard goods for the most part. The solution is to invite foreign companies
that have the know how to come in and build modern factories, but none of them will
do it because of vast corruption.

Russians will survive, they've been doing it forever and they will keep doing it.
They've got a zillion problems but surviving isn't one of them. Maybe someday
Russians will get their leaders to clean up the corruption, but I won't hold my
breath waiting for it to happen.

Udachi!

Bill

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 28, 2016, 02:12:23 PM
My wife has a US $ account with Privat. I successfully transfer US $ to her every month via Privat.


LOL


I was going to privately ask you how you did that.


Do you mind sharing how to do it. My wife would like to send money to her sister.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on January 28, 2016, 05:22:34 PM

LOL


I was going to privately ask you how you did that.


Do you mind sharing how to do it. My wife would like to send money to her sister.

I have been under the impression( for well over a year now) that any money picked up at a bank/western union/money gram, ect.  HAS to be in Hyvnia. Maybe there is some kind of exception?

I thought you (cc3) were living in Lviv now with wife and kid???
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on January 28, 2016, 06:13:01 PM
I have been under the impression( for well over a year now) that any money picked up at a bank/western union/money gram, ect.  HAS to be in Hyvnia. Maybe there is some kind of exception?

I thought you (cc3) were living in Lviv now with wife and kid???


My SIL receives her money in dollars.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 29, 2016, 03:33:58 PM
Simply open a Dollar account, get the SWIFT code and transfer it.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on January 30, 2016, 12:12:08 PM
I am going to suggest they quickly buy high end condos here in Miami.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-finance-ministry-considers-bail-big-bank-depositors-202525139--business.html (http://news.yahoo.com/russian-finance-ministry-considers-bail-big-bank-depositors-202525139--business.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on January 30, 2016, 12:41:24 PM
I have been under the impression( for well over a year now) that any money picked up at a bank/western union/money gram, ect.  HAS to be in Hyvnia. Maybe there is some kind of exception?

I thought you (cc3) were living in Lviv now with wife and kid???

 I do live in Lviv, am visiting family in Rocky Mountain region. Unfortunately, wife has not yet obtained a US B-2 tourist visa to accompany me.

All of my transfers to my wife in Ukraine have been delivered to her in US $.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on February 01, 2016, 04:18:05 AM
According to my contact in UA

If you withdraw at an ATM, you will only get UA currency, not USD or EUR

If you have an account in USD or EUR at the bank you can get USD or EUR at the counter, just not at the ATM machines.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 05, 2016, 03:49:07 AM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/05/are-u-s-missiles-taking-out-high-ranking-russian-military-officials.html

Will the botox midget try to hush up this embarrassing news because there is no real way he can retaliate against US military personnel short of starting WW3, or have his state media play this up to stir up more anti-US sediment back home?

Watching that rooftop video clip...
Why even bother trying to run when the oncoming missile is this close to impact?  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 05, 2016, 10:46:33 AM
I don't know if this is the same incident but recently they popped off a reported 4 Russian Generals and 4 Syrian Generals with one rocket.  :clapping:

 The Russians are now seeing their style of proxy war being used against them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on February 05, 2016, 11:05:05 AM
I don't know if this is the same incident but recently they popped off a reported 4 Russian Generals and 4 Syrian Generals with one rocket.  :clapping:

 The Russians are now seeing their style of proxy war being used against them.

not to ruin your glee but would you mind sharing a link or three?   not doubting but would enjoy seeing the source of your info.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 05, 2016, 11:27:53 AM
(Nothing personal BC) But, because of all the flap here about posting links and news .. Do the same thing that I've already done..

 Go look for it yourself!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AnonMod on February 05, 2016, 12:00:56 PM
To clarify, there is no issue with posting links.  The issue is with cutting and pasting reams of material from that link. 

The moderators initially had requested that cut and pastes from links be restricted to 250 words, for copyright purposes.  Some posters took umbrage with that, and ignored the request.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 05, 2016, 01:30:18 PM

 "Ask and ye shall receive.   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:  It's about time that they started working on the court system. This is long over due.



http://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-reforms-idUSL8N1561TM"


Nobody is receiving anything yet. All they did was talk about reforming the court system. They haven't passed any laws yet to reform the court. Jan 22 that article came out. Later Ukraine's economic minister resigns in disgust of what is going on in government. Apparently he doesn't share your enthusiasm for Ukraine heading in the right direction. You should start a thread named "More Bad News for Ukraine" because Putin is going to control them again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 05, 2016, 03:26:24 PM
That is simply not true. On many occasions complying posts were  modded,moved,deleted(repeatedly).
It is the misrepresentation made by the comments that is misleading. A mod with an agenda that creates overzealous interference and disruption in a thread is achieving nothing.
Perhaps I can suggest taking one's shoes off while counting words would make the task easier!




Gee that is just soooo funny every time you repeat it to somebody different.  Might I suggest that you take off your shoes and also drop your pants....at least that way you can get all the way to 20 and 1/2.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 05, 2016, 05:19:30 PM
at the risk of being "on topic" isn't this the second Russian TOW fatality, the first being one of the personnel on the rescue chopper trying to pick up the downed pilot from the Turkish intercept?

maybe Russia will try and make Syria a no TOWING zone?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 05, 2016, 05:29:51 PM
I sure wish I could toss up some links BillyB to  show a few things about this



I doubt there's anything you can show me that is going to change my mind on the direction Ukraine is heading. There are some good guys in government there but there are still too many corrupt individuals to put Ukraine on the right track. What is going on in Ukraine is unacceptable and the West is correct to think it's a bad investment. It's up to the Ukrainian people to oust more politicians or slowly slip back under Putin's foot.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 05, 2016, 06:28:12 PM
Convincing you about Ukraine and the changes isn't my purpose in life.  :rolleyes:

 I've spent a lot of time there and have seen the changes first hand. Yes there's still a bunch of problems but there has been progress made and I think there'll be more to come.
 How much time have you personally spent in Ukraine since 2014? I've maxed out my time there each winter since 2005 with a few extra short trips mixed in.
 I do have a pretty good idea of the way that things are shaking out.  Poro had Yats have a huge problems in many different directions. But they're at least trying to keep UA's head above water despite the Russian invasions and the economical cesspool that they were left with thanks to Yanku and his band of thieves.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 05, 2016, 06:46:40 PM

I've spent a lot of time there and have seen the changes first hand.

I've maxed out my time there each winter since 2005 with a few extra short trips mixed in.


That's part of the problem. You can't be objective because you're not on the outside looking in. Much of the changes you've seen came under Western pressure and Western money anyway. How on earth you think Ukraine is headed in the right direction is bewildering. The economy there sucks and the country is still broken apart.


Poro had Yats have a huge problems in many different directions. But they're at least trying to keep UA's head above water despite the Russian invasions and the economical cesspool that they were left with thanks to Yanku and his band of thieves.


I like Poro and Yats. They've worked hard to get funds and weapons Ukraine's benefit but the bottom line is they didn't get much and Russia is allowed to harm Ukraine's economy by destabilizing the country. Poro and Yats aren't getting results so the Ukrainian people are going to blame them for not righting the wrongs. Poroshenko's approval rating after one year was worse than the ex Prez Yanukovych that the citizens ousted. Guess what's going to happen in the next election? A pro Western Ukrainian president is going to get fired. Guess who's going to take his place? Putin is going to have his way again and the sanctions on Russia will be lifted when he pulls his troops out after another puppet is installed.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/187931/ukrainians-disillusioned-leadership.aspx?g_source=World&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 05, 2016, 06:52:50 PM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/05/are-u-s-missiles-taking-out-high-ranking-russian-military-officials.html

Will the botox midget try to hush up this embarrassing news because there is no real way he can retaliate against US military personnel short of starting WW3, or have his state media play this up to stir up more anti-US sediment back home?

Watching that rooftop video clip...
Why even bother trying to run when the oncoming missile is this close to impact?  :wallbash:


Russia and Syria's army been on the offensive ever since Russia walked onto the playground. They are pushing the rebels back to the Turkish border. I heard Turkey may send troops into Syria soon. Russia is winning in Syria. The West is losing. That is reality.


http://news.yahoo.com/syria-regime-forces-fresh-gains-south-monitor-103050248.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 05, 2016, 06:58:27 PM
Looking at the trees in a forest is best done from being there to see them.
Not by scanning them from Google earth.
 You need to be there to see  things clearly.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 05, 2016, 07:11:39 PM
Maybe someone who has such a very clear vision of Ukraine can explain why there was not a single prosecution for major corruption in Ukraine last year?  NOT ONE!!
I mean you were there, you must’ve been a personal witness to the whole thing right????

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=uk&u=http://nashigroshi.org/2016/01/16/torik-v-ukrajini-zhodnoho-koruptsionera-ne-zasudyly-za-nezakonne-
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 05, 2016, 07:33:23 PM
 if all you have to do to be an expert on some subject is to “just be there”, then you can go ask some homeless guy in the US about any US macroeconomic economic issues and use his words as the gospel, I mean he’s there NOW, you certainly wouldn’t want to consult someone in the London School of Economics or the IMF or even the Bank of China, after all they’re thousands of miles away!  Your insights are nothing short of genius, I’m telling you!

You can’t so cleanly separate the past from the present in Ukraine, there is no clear dividing line, so you have to include the inconvenient detail that Poroshenko was a member of the Yanukovych administration as the economic development and trade minister of Ukraine, you think there was no corruption involved there do you?  Going back a bit farther, it was the conflict between Poroshenko and Tymoshenko over how to carve up Ukraine that led to Yushenko dismissing his entire cabinet of ministers, including Poroshenko and Tymoshenko, which effectively was the collapse of the “Orange Revolution” government.  By the way, you know the nice slice of land along the Dnipro where Yanukovych had his "dacha", do you know who else “owns” land there today? 

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-poroshenko-land-deal-questions-tsars-village/27013945.html

In 2014 The Washington Post has reported that a reporter dug through Wikileaks diplomatic cables to find mentions of Poroshenko. She found plenty!  For example, the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst called Poroshenko, “a disgraced oligarch” Together these details show that Poroshenko is very much part of the pre-Maidan political elite, hardly someone who is going to reform Ukraine!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/05/29/the-not-very-nice-things-u-s-officials-used-to-say-about-ukraines-new-president/

I don’t know what contact you as an American have had in Ukraine, do you deal with large multi million dollar government procurements, do you own a major business there, have you ever dealt with the Tax Police over major issues, have you ever dealt with the SBU, have you ever been in a civil suit in Ukraine?  If not then your own personal experience is perhaps somewhat limited in scope so far as being able to judge that there has been some form of change there, I mean maybe, right?

If not however, I would be delighted to hear whatever stories you would care to share with those of us who are unfortunately so geographically challenged as to not be able to experience first hand the glorious changes that according to you Ukraine has undergone.

Please inform us first hand with your observations!  I am prepared to be dazzled!!!




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 05, 2016, 07:35:18 PM

I doubt there's anything you can show me that is going to change my mind on the direction Ukraine is heading. There are some good guys in government there but there are still too many corrupt individuals to put Ukraine on the right track. What is going on in Ukraine is unacceptable and the West is correct to think it's a bad investment. It's up to the Ukrainian people to oust more politicians or slowly slip back under Putin's foot.

OK BillyB--when were you last in Ukraine?
Along with others who base their views and understanding of events that took place 10 or more years ago and are not in touch with the current situation in Ukraine.
Your ridiculous waffling and glad bag of irrelevant comments across numerous threads is a joke .You repeatedly show little comprehension on complicated matters and expect  others to make one line explanations you can understand!
You have little idea of what is going on in Ukraine - all you repeatedly show is your ignorance.

Why don't you stick to the inane threads on US politics ( btw-- what does the Iowa caucus result have to do with the forum theme???????????)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 05, 2016, 07:42:22 PM
Maybe someone who has such a very clear vision of Ukraine can explain why there was not a single prosecution for major corruption in Ukraine last year?  NOT ONE!!
I mean you were there, you must’ve been a personal witness to the whole thing right????

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=uk&u=http://nashigroshi.org/2016/01/16/torik-v-ukrajini-zhodnoho-koruptsionera-ne-zasudyly-za-nezakonne-

I gather your question is aimed at AKMike--but-- if you bothered to read a lot of links previously posted-- and others that were removed-- the answers are  there.
I prefer to post a link to a substantial story that deals with come of the complications in any given situation-- and the reader can see for themselves.
Actually by asking the question-- it is proving a point I have made-the forum needs real material-- not some hick who can only denigrate Ukraine at every opportunity.

BTW-- THIS THREAD IS ABOUT RUSSIA--where the bad news just keeps coming and is getting worse every day.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 05, 2016, 08:05:47 PM
a poem by AkMike and Krimster


Looking at the trees in a forest is best done from being there to see them.
and not by doing any thinking somewhere way down in your brain stem
Not by scanning them from Google earth.
will you be able to unearth
You need to be there to see  things clearly.
where you can see things more sincerely
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 05, 2016, 08:10:09 PM
Krimster, I will not lower myself to your level. You've shown that your word isn't worth anything and because of that you've been on ignore for some time.

BTW I only saw this because JayH quoted you. I'll just skip over these in the future
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 05, 2016, 08:20:17 PM
“You've shown that your word isn't worth anything and because of that you've been on ignore for some time.”

I don’t know what your sister told you, but I certainly didn’t promise I’d marry her, and after one night together, next thing I know there were wedding invitations, I know she’s your sister and all but I mean you have to look at it from my standpoint to
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 05, 2016, 08:26:27 PM
Krimster, I will not lower myself to your level. You've shown that your word isn't worth anything and because of that you've been on ignore for some time.

BTW I only saw this because JayH quoted you. I'll just skip over these in the future


Another 'ignore'er'.  Based on your posts, one could easily conclude that you ignore anything you don't want to hear/read....that way your fatal biases are never disrupted!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 05, 2016, 08:32:53 PM
when you ignore enough you can't help but become ignorant
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 05, 2016, 08:43:48 PM
LOL, At least 'Lavtory' told 1 truth out of 6! That's pretty good, considering the source.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 05, 2016, 10:05:44 PM
More bad news for the Russian sympathisers on the Crimea. Residents starting to work out how incompetent the Russians really are! And how little they care about the Crimean residents.
Video below--note the colours of the lady speaking is wearing!
"The beaches are in a terrible state. If there is a rest, we are all dead "- the inhabitants of the occupied Alushta on the future of the holiday season.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eHfiASolCM
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 05, 2016, 11:09:51 PM
I would be delighted to hear whatever stories you would care to share with those of us who are unfortunately so geographically challenged as to not be able to experience first hand the glorious changes that according to you Ukraine has undergone.

Please inform us first hand with your observations!  I am prepared to be dazzled!!!



I will be in Ukraine in less than 2 weeks and will stay there for 2 1/2 weeks in Kiev, Ivano Frankivsk, and a few other towns. I will come back and report what I see and you will not only be dazzled, I will blow your mind. When you read my post, keep you phone nearby just in case your heart fails and you need to dial 911. But I warn you, if you're feeling ill, taking legal or illegal drugs, or pregnant, you should refrain from reading my shocking post altogether which will probably reveal all is well in Ukraine and they are heading in the right direction.


Anyway, I know people who are living in Ukraine and been there more times than Mike and Jay and they tell me things are bad, corruption still exists, and are not happy with the government.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 05, 2016, 11:20:08 PM

I will be in Ukraine in less than 2 weeks and will stay there for 2 1/2 weeks in Kiev, Ivano Frankivsk, and a few other towns. I will come back and report what I see and you will not only be dazzled, I will blow your mind. When you read my post, keep you phone nearby just in case your heart fails and you need to dial 911. But I warn you, if you're feeling ill, taking legal or illegal drugs, or pregnant, you should refrain from reading my shocking post altogether which will probably reveal all is well in Ukraine and they are heading in the right direction.


Anyway, I know people who are living in Ukraine and been there more times than Mike and Jay and they tell me things are bad, corruption still exists, and are not happy with the government.

OK BillyB--when were you last in Ukraine?

Don't avoid the question-- answer it ! It is probably a matter of record somewhere--maybe Ade can answer for you?
See BillyB- it does affect your views.They are clearly negative and locked in an earlier time.In fact it is a more acceptable excuse for your stupidity and ignorance!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 05, 2016, 11:40:47 PM
Anyway, I know people who are living in Ukraine and been there more times than Mike and Jay and they tell me things are bad, corruption still exists, and are not happy with the government.

No one has said that things are great there Billy. There is still corruption and people seem to think that in 2 years all the problems should be turned around and rosy. That's wishful thinking considering the initial scope of the problems that were inherited.  If you'd bother to look at some of the news site you'd see what's being done there to get it working better. The Abromavicius mess is a prime example of the problems that need to be overcome.

Ukraine is a corrupt country – that’s a fact. The levels of corruption approximate those of Mexico and/or any other South American country.  Are these countries failed states?

Up until a couple of years ago Brazil was considered one of the most promising emerging markets in the world, and Mexico continues to be an integral part of NAFTA.

Do G-7 ambassadors write open letters to these countries’ presidents every time a high-level corruption scandal erupts?

Ukraine is corrupt today, but not even close to what it was two years ago – that is a fact.

 As far as the number of trips that I've made. Without dragging out the old passport and counting them I'd say that I've got between 15-18 at this point. Each of these trips are between 1-3 months for each. More than 2 years there total time.

 Based on this I can state that things have improved over the last couple of years despite the invasion.  I feel good enough about it that I've invested a big wad of cash there for our future.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 06, 2016, 09:13:01 AM
BillyB,

and don’t forget to stop by the Rada in Kyiv and observe what’s happening there, just like AkMike does every day, please also stop by the Chief Criminal Prosecutor’s office and see how many new cases of corruption against oligarchs are being filed just like AkMike does, (every day he’s there asking, I’m tellin’ ya), and also the NBU and the Ministry of Trade and Development, and all the many other places that AkMike goes to every day to investigate, and I sure hope you speak perfectly fluent Ukrainian like AkMike does (you’d really have to understand it all like he does, right?!)

what, wait a second, hang on I just got s skype call!
Hello?
Oh Privet! Kak de la?
Engliskki, Horrosho!
What’s up?
Oh, you know AkMike
You say he doesn’t do any of those things
You say most of the time he just chills in a little house in Cherkassy,
and doesn’t have any contact at in regards to the important things happening in Ukraine
OMG, shocked, shocked I am to hear this,
‘spossiba, zaftra Olga

You see folks, the average person living in Ukraine has no contact with the NBU, no contact with the Rada, no contact with the Chief Criminal Prosecutor’s office, no contact with the SBU.  So “living there” will not provide you with any details about them.  You have to seek out on-line journalistic sources, this was always my source for information about Ukraine, EVEN WHEN I LIVED THERE.  Those same sources are available to someone in Cherkassy as well as to someone in Chicago, living there means nothing in the internet age.

So for someone to make the assertion that ONLY THEIR OPINION IS THE RIGHT ONE BECAUSE THEY LIVE THERE OR HAVE VISITED RECENTLY, should be taken for what it really is, an attempt by a little man to try and turn himself into a big man by only allowing himself to have an opinion about Ukraine and no one else.  When you consider the subject matter and the “desperate measures” that AkMike is employing to try and dominate the conversation, I have to laugh  at how silly it is

The problem with AkMike is that I have a really hard time telling if he’s “for real” and being sincere in his beliefs or if he’s “just playing us”, lately I’ve begun to think that he’s being serious, I’m only skeptical about his sincerity because I find it hard to believe that someone could really be this stupid.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 06, 2016, 12:02:35 PM
Don't avoid the question-- answer it ! It is probably a matter of record somewhere--maybe Ade can answer for you?
See BillyB- it does affect your views.They are clearly negative and locked in an earlier time.In fact it is a more acceptable excuse for your stupidity and ignorance!!


Earlier I said I spoke to people who live there. They are citizens but instead of accepting the fact they got more time on the ground in Ukraine and value what they say, you continue to give people the impression you got the most time in Ukraine recently and that your views are the most accurate. Silly.  Read the Gallup poll I linked earlier that shows Poroshenko with a 17% approval rating. That is worse that the previous president ever got and that guy got ousted. People who live there are not happy with the current government and the few posters at this forum making it sound as if Ukraine is improving and Russia is going to hell are lying or disillusioned about reality. If Ukraine takes one step foward and three steps back, how is that progress? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 06, 2016, 01:40:56 PM
So--WHEN WERE YOU LAST THERE ?

You ( & others) are quite happy to attempt a pi...ing contest of  who knows best based on physical presence of your "friends" but decline to acknowledge when you were last there? The last guy that went on about it has not been in Ukraine in close to 10 years ( & he posted above questioning AKMike's honesty!!)--so really-- why not shut up and report back-- AFTER YOUR COMING BRIEF VISIT !
Only a complete and utter fool would argue nothing changes in 10 years.

A lot strange-- don'y you think?

The fact is that neither AKMike or I have made any great point of time spent on the ground--but have been constantly challenged on our experiences.
To question Mike in that way is disgusting-and makes you wonder about motives.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 06, 2016, 01:56:39 PM
There'll be a biased report comparing the western world to UA and it'll be bad of course. No a fair comparison to the before and after of Ukraine based entirely on Ukraine.  :deadhorse:

 People expect a huge change to road system, utilities, public transportation, corruption and all facets of life within 2 years. All to take place with an empty pocketbook.  :rolleyes: It's going top take time and effort for the changes. IMO it's on the right path basicly but there are huge hurdles to overcome and by following the rule of law it's going to take time. 

 Abromavicius's resignation because of the corruption has brought public exposure to  the forefront with 'names and dates'. If Poro is involved in it he needs to go. Same with Yats and who ever else has dirty hands. Simple. 

 I hope that within a few more years there'll be a huge change in the quality of life there for everyone.  I believe it's coming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 06, 2016, 02:18:17 PM
JayH,

When I lived in Ukraine for 3 years, did I ever meet Yushenko or Poroshenko or Tymoshenko and sit down and have a talk with them about national events.  No I didn’t Jay, when I lived there I received my news about national events in Ukraine from the internet (which was a much more trusted source than oligarch owned TV stations).  I still receive my news about Ukraine from the internet, from primary sources like http://nashigroshi.org/  This is news that is written in Ukrainian by Ukrainian journalists and for Ukrainians, and is updated daily (I highly recommend them, and you can read them in Melitopol or Melbourne).  Another excellent on-line source of information regarding Ukraine is www.rferl.org, I’ve been reading them for years and years, for example see:

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-poroshenko-land-deal-questions-tsars-village/27013945.html  (and reading them in Ternopil or Tasmania will not make a bit of difference)

Now if your assertion that knowledge of a particular subject can ONLY be established by direct and immediate observation, then please explain to us how you know the names of the planets in the solar system...



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 06, 2016, 03:43:33 PM
The crashing Russian economy has resulted in large medical cutbacks, In Moscow there is now only 1 urologist on duty for the entire city!
--story in Russian here--:
http://www.apn.ru/publications/article34624.htm

the ironic part, his name is Dr Pisskov!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 06, 2016, 06:13:57 PM
The fact is that neither AKMike or I have made any great point of time spent on the ground--but have been constantly challenged on our experiences.



It's your bias that is questioned by many here. For every positive article you post pertaining to Ukraine, you fail to post 3 negatives that are simultaneously out there. You fail to accept the reality Ukraine is heading in the wrong direction. Also all that bad news about Russia. They've survived WW2. They'll struggle but come out of this current economic crisis like they've done others. They sky is not falling.



 People expect a huge change to road system, utilities, public transportation, corruption and all facets of life within 2 years. All to take place with an empty pocketbook.  :rolleyes: It's going top take time and effort for the changes. IMO it's on the right path basicly but there are huge hurdles to overcome and by following the rule of law it's going to take time. 



So Ukrainians don't have a right to be upset because you say change is going to take time. You think they are dumb? Of course it's going to take time but when you don't see any of the corrupt politicians getting arrested, the problem isn't time, the problem is management and with that problem there will be no change. That is why Prez Poroshenko is criticized. At the recent World Economic Forum Vice President Biden pulled Poroshenko to the side for 4 hours to talk about making progress in getting rid of corruption. Over a year ago, Biden talked to Ukraine's parliament about getting rid of corruption. They didn't get the message the first time. Are those in government idiots? What part of "get rid of corruption" they don't understand?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on February 06, 2016, 06:26:54 PM
Krymster,

Before you perish, try the phone numbers below when in Moscow. Those are the first phone numbers that Google shares. There are tonnes of others.
You will be admitted ( jews, muslims,and other assorted circumcised bros, w/o discrimination ) on weekdays, weekends and holidays. You can also make a house call too. Stay the course!

P.S. A doctor in US hasn't made a house call, especially for free, for some 35-40 years. Last time I checked.


Записаться на прием к урологу в Москве
Записаться к урологу «СМ-Клиника» на прием можно, позвонив по телефону +7 (495) 308-03-55
или заполнив специальную электронную форму записи на сайте. Врачи «СМ-Клиника» ведут прием не только в будние, но и в выходные, а также праздничные дни.
Вызов уролога на дом
В том случае, если вы по каким-либо причинам не можете прийти на прием в клинику, вы можете вызвать уролога на дом. Доктор проведет осмотр, выдаст необходимые направления на обследования, даст рекомендации по лечению. Некоторые анализы также может сделать медсестра на дому по направлению врача.
Вызвать уролога на дом можно по телефону +7 (495) 480-74-73.
Получить дополнительную информацию и записаться на прием к урологу вы можете по телефону +7 (495) 308-03-55
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on February 06, 2016, 07:01:31 PM
The crashing Russian economy has resulted in large medical cutbacks, In Moscow there is now only 1 urologist on duty for the entire city!
--story in Russian here--:
http://www.apn.ru/publications/article34624.htm (http://www.apn.ru/publications/article34624.htm)

the ironic part, his name is Dr Pisskov!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on February 06, 2016, 07:06:28 PM
The previous post was supposed to have a funny pic. It doesn't get through. The captioning goes :


Urologist to a patient : I have bad news for you-- your health is as sound as a dollar.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 06, 2016, 07:20:22 PM
Putin's delusions continue.
Did  I see he admitted that Russia invaded Ukraine on Crimea and the east?

Putin's statement would lead to civil war in Russia - centurion

Putin repeated step Mussolini and declared a national idea of ​​patriotism. In other words, simply said that Russia - is Putin.

http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/zayavlenye-putyna-pryvedet-k-grazhdanskoj-vojne-v-rf-sotnyk/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on February 06, 2016, 08:12:50 PM
Ukraine asking EU

-Can we have loans?
-No.
-Can we have visa free status?
-No.
- Can we export agricultural goods?
-No.
-We ARE europeans, aren't we? what can we have?
-Gay parades.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 06, 2016, 08:16:12 PM
So-please tell us--who is begging for bank loans? Would that be the near bankrupt Soviet Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 06, 2016, 08:41:50 PM
So-please tell us--who is begging for bank loans? Would that be the near bankrupt Soviet Russia?


I believe it is Ukraine that has been begging for loans, and they have received some too. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on February 06, 2016, 09:01:45 PM

Ukraine asking EU

-Can we have loans?
-No.
 visa free status?
-No.
 xport agricultural goods?
-No.
-We ARE europeans, aren't we? what can we have?
-Gay parades.
Quote
Get Britain Out is an independent, cross-party, grassroots Eurosceptic group campaigning to get the United Kingdom Out of the European Union. We want to restore UK Parliamentary democracy and take back control from the unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels. We want Great Britain to be free of EU interference, and we want to decide who can come into Britain by controlling our borders once again. The Prime Minister’s so-called ‘deal’ in advance of the Referendum is pathetic and we must now fight to Get Britain Out of the European Union as soon as possible.
  Why?.....
http://getbritainout.org/

EU =  a pitiful outfit
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on February 06, 2016, 09:06:48 PM
So-please tell us--who is begging for bank loans? Would that be the near bankrupt Soviet Russia?
I like this one :-)

For sale: the country Ukraine. as is. without gas in the offing. no european mileage. requires investments. the cabin was hugely used for burning, killing and salo consumption. will exchange for the country of Syria, with gas, OBO. call frm 9am-6pm. ET.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on February 07, 2016, 05:09:20 AM
http://getbritainout.org/

EU =  a pitiful outfit

EU is an absolute newbie and when it was formed acquired both good and bad in the bargain.  Thus far it's only a blink in the eye of history.  Give it time to evolve and work on the issues at hand.  At least at the moment it's too big to fail and a few losses or gains expected and 'par for the course'.  The southern countries like Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece would only profit over the medium and long term by exiting.  They would simply fall back into their former positions as lower wage areas and attract interest from northern manufacturers sucking that area's teat dry.

Did you note that high wage area manufacturers opened factories in new EU partner countries offering lower wages as the EU and EUR area was formed?  Like HU CZ etc..  Is there any reason to believe the same won't happen if ANY of these countries exit?  I doubt it.  I don't see GB having any success if they exit as they cannot offer lower wages unless the GBP drops considerably against other currencies.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 07, 2016, 07:36:58 AM
dearest Luda!
Greetings Tovarish!

thank you for mentioning moy пенис!
did you know that moy пенис is so bolshoi, it graduated high school 2 years ahead of me!
yup! it was even the class valedictorian and not only delivered the commencement speech but sang a Simon and Garfunckle song!!  I bet yours can’t do that!!!

but enough about moy пенис. 
first of all, if Russia is such a swell place, whatchadoin HERE Willis??

>The previous post was supposed to have a funny pic.
>Urologist to a patient : I have bad news for you-- your health is as sound as a dollar.

considering the ratio of 80 Rubles to the Dollar, that WOULD BE A FUNNY PICTURE!
can you imagine how I would draw the picture when the patient heard the news, sure you can!!!!

keepin it real Za Mir Ludie!!




 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 07, 2016, 11:50:02 AM
There's a good article at IBTIMES about the Russian Dyre malware that's stolen millions by hacking passwords. Busted in the middle of Moscow.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 07, 2016, 12:09:37 PM
Bloomberg says that Russia's 'Misery Index' which is the sum of unemployment and inflation rates. It has gone up to 19% from 11.7% in February 2014 to place the world's second-biggest oil producer among the world's worst economies.   :clapping: I feel bad for the normal folks on the street to an extent, but hey still support their governments actions so.. Nevermind!
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ludmila on February 07, 2016, 04:59:32 PM
dearest Luda!
Greetings Tovarish!

thank you for mentioning moy пенис!
did you know that moy пенис is so bolshoi, it graduated high school 2 years ahead of me!
yup! it was even the class valedictorian and not only delivered the commencement speech but sang a Simon and Garfunckle song!!  I bet yours can’t do that!!!

but enough about moy пенис. 





 
Krymster2,
Your most prized possession aka your private part is of no interest to anyone. If you chose to mention and talk about it, its size, taking pride in it at the public forum, your low self esteem and insecurities are obvious. It is high time you grew out of your insecurities and began TRULY educating yourself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 07, 2016, 05:26:17 PM
> no interest to anyone.
then why Luda did YOU first mention IT,
>>other assorted circumcised bros

I'm getting mixed messages here, since you brought it up (so to speak), I perhaps mistakenly assumed you wanted to talk about it!!??

>It is high time you grew out of your insecurities and began TRULY educating yourself.

OK, will YOU be my teacher?  I've been a VERY naughty malchick!, I think you are going to have to discipline me so I'll learn my lesson!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on February 07, 2016, 05:58:32 PM
Krim,
it seems maybe you and Luda have a past. ? I have been absent a while, did I miss something?
In any case probably to best keep such 'off board', and this said kindly to both of you.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 07, 2016, 07:05:32 PM
>it seems maybe you and Luda have a past. ?
Nope, never met ‘er

>I have been absent a while, did I miss something?
probably, did you shoot something?

>In any case probably to best keep such 'off board', and this said kindly to both of you.
I’m 100% “on board” wouldn’t be wise to go “over board”, you’re too kind sir!!

obviously I'm off bored
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 07, 2016, 09:06:50 PM
Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is reiterating his determination to win back ownership of four disputed Southern Kuril Islands in the Pacific. Russia stole those islands from Japan after Japan surrendered unconditionally to end the Second World War.
 Russia did not participate but declared war against Japan after the war actually ended. Those islands rightfully belong to Japan. Yet another land grab by Russians who occupy the land but do not know what to do with it except to pillage its natural resources as they do in Siberia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 08, 2016, 01:40:42 PM
Things must really be getting bad when Chinese banks make Russian clients close accounts!  :rolleyes:
Both company accounts and personal ones!  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on February 08, 2016, 01:57:50 PM
Things must really be getting bad when Chinese banks make Russian clients close accounts!  :rolleyes:
Both company accounts and personal ones!  :crackwhip:

Yeah, at least many American and Europeans closed their Swiss accounts voluntarily.... LOL
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 08, 2016, 02:07:17 PM
Yes, but under pressure!

 The Chinese are not doing any loans or banking services for Russia or Russians. Putin is isolating Russia from the rest of the world. Russia continues to seek loans from others though.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on February 08, 2016, 02:30:31 PM
Yes, but under pressure!

 The Chinese are not doing any loans or banking services for Russia or Russians. Putin is isolating Russia from the rest of the world. Russia continues to seek loans from others though.

ok.... but I fail to see how this is going to affect the common Russian, Chinaman, You or Me....  Only grasping with the little info you provided, but I can imagine volatility with RUB could be an aspect involved..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 08, 2016, 02:48:06 PM
No it doesn't seem to be. More along the lines of the Chinese preferring the west to Russia.  Look it up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on February 08, 2016, 03:19:22 PM
No it doesn't seem to be. More along the lines of the Chinese preferring the west to Russia.  Look it up.

Well on the basis of trade, the US is indeed China's largest trading partner. so?....  Are you hesitant to even post a link now?  If so I'll drop out of your game.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 08, 2016, 03:24:47 PM
Sorry BC I said that I won't post links here any more.  If you want the information find it as I did.
I gave enough information that by using Google anyone can find it easily.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 08, 2016, 06:13:56 PM
Yes, but under pressure!

 The Chinese are not doing any loans or banking services for Russia or Russians. Putin is isolating Russia from the rest of the world. Russia continues to seek loans from others though.


Meanwhile Russia is talking about MAKING loans:
Belarusian leader says Russia will offer bailout



http://www.yahoo.com/ (http://www.yahoo.com/)


Fathertime!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on February 08, 2016, 09:19:54 PM

Meanwhile Russia is talking about MAKING loans:
Belarusian leader says Russia will offer bailout


MINSK, Belarus (AP) — The leader of Belarus says Russia has promised to offer financial assistance to his nation. President Alexander Lukashenko said Monday that he has secured Russian President Vladimir Putin’s promise to help shore up the Belarusian economy, which......


http://www.yahoo.com/ (http://www.yahoo.com/)


Fathertime!


Your link didn't work but here it is again. Putin already gave Belarus close to a billion dollars and discounted gas. He may give more. I guess Russia isn't as broke as some people claim.


http://www.seattletimes.com/business/belarusian-leader-says-russia-will-offer-bailout/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on February 09, 2016, 12:14:14 AM
lol , billy its not a loan , putin is buying more shares in the land grab he intends to make into the future

beLarus is already dependant on russia , this is just an extension on that control and eventual takeover imo

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 09, 2016, 07:18:50 AM

Your link didn't work but here it is again. Putin already gave Belarus close to a billion dollars and discounted gas. He may give more. I guess Russia isn't as broke as some people claim.


http://www.seattletimes.com/business/belarusian-leader-says-russia-will-offer-bailout/ (http://www.seattletimes.com/business/belarusian-leader-says-russia-will-offer-bailout/)


Thanks for fixing my fouled up link.  Yeah, I doubt Russia is as broke as some of these guys like to say on a daily basis....


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on February 09, 2016, 09:31:36 AM
Based on 2014 statistics, Russia holds 1,094.7 tonnes of Gold which places them in 6th place in World.  And, this represents only 10% of their total Reserves (Gold + Foreign Exchange Currency).

France in 5th place.
Italy in 4th place.
IMF in 3rd place.
Germany in 2nd place with 3,384.2 tonnes.
USA in 1st place with 8,133.5 tonnes.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2016, 09:32:16 AM
Russian Lukoil sells it's gas stations’ due to “anti-Russian attitudes,” in Latvia, Lithuania, Poland after boycott.  :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2016, 09:33:19 AM
Based on 2014 statistics, Russia holds 1,094.7 tonnes of Gold which places them in 6th place in World.  And, this represents only 10% of their total Reserves (Gold + Foreign Exchange Currency).

France in 5th place.
Italy in 4th place.
IMF in 3rd place.
Germany in 2nd place with 3,384.2 tonnes.
USA in 1st place with 8,133.5 tonnes.

That's assuming that they haven't 'cooked the books'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2016, 09:55:19 AM
 Ukraine changes to German engines in armored vehicles instead of Russian ones in the new production BTR-3, BTR-4 and the Dozor-B armored vehicles. The new NATO-type Deutz engines are quieter and more reliable than the old Russian made ones whose deliveries were stopped when Russia launched the military invasion in Donbas,
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 09, 2016, 10:33:10 AM
seriously? this is the thing you focus on while ignoring completely Aivaras Abromavicius’s departure and how this may topple Poroshenko’s government, an event that has already led the IMF to suspend handing out any more money for Ukraine’s oligarch’s to steal, and which has also prompted Putin to step up the military campaign in Donbas.  I’m also curious how your report in regards to the Russian/German engine swap is related to your contemporary and in person observations of Ukraine instead of just being from an internet source?  Where you there at the factory today, or were you just reading Kyiv Post?  Oh the hypocrisy!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 09, 2016, 12:16:03 PM
FT:
Quote
Meanwhile Russia is talking about MAKING loans:

Again, a little knowledge, just a little, would keep you from making silly comments.

Russia and Belarus are a de facto "two countries in one" due to their "union" status. While personality differences will likely continue to stall any further merger efforts, the two have a united parliament and rotating presidency of their "Union State."

Ft, if you ever decide to travel to Russia, you will discover that your migration document will list both Russia and Belarus on it. Last week, the two met at Putin's Bocharov Ruchei residence in Sochi to plan the upcoming meeting of the Russia-Belarus Union State Supreme Council in Mogilev which will include a chamber of the cabinet ministers of both governments.

Every two years, just before the joint parliament meets, Luka travels to Moscow to beg for yet another bailout. Putin tolerates Lukashenko, but that is it. Belarus is a totally state controlled economy and is poorly managed. Putin is terminally frustrated with the need to bail them out time after time. However, as much as he doesn't like it, and as much as he can't really afford it, he has no choice. Thus, he grits his teeth and gives in.

Why is he forced to give in? The Union State status for one, although someday this will come back to bite Belarus. But, even more importantly are the gas and oil transit issues. Russia needs Belarus and thus the bailouts and cheap gas prices.

Putin also understands that certain Western players, Germany and Poland for example, would love to gain an entry into the rich agriculture farmland of Belarus. Luka would turn to such Western funding sources in a heartbeat if Putin were to deny loans. That would torpedo the Eurasian Customs Union which would tank were Putin to lose Belarus as he has Ukraine.

Please do not allow your ignorance of the region to colour your misguided thinking as to Russia having enough spare cash to throw out loans, as if it is no big deal. It is a big deal, and under the threat of all that he has to lose, Putin simply has no choice other than to continue the frustrating bailouts.

At least he will get something valuable, he usually does, with each bailout. Luka doesn't get the money for free.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 09, 2016, 02:31:06 PM
and if there had been no Maidan, Ukraine would have gotten 15 billion in Russian loans, Crimea would still be a part of Ukraine, and there would have been no war in Donbass, and Ukraine’s economy would be performing far better than it is now, Russia would not have had sanctions and would have remained being Ukraine’s largest trading partner

meanwhile, what has Ukraine got to show for it all, is there any less corruption than there was before Maidan?  are the people better off?  is the country heading in the right direction, or is it heading for a cliff?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 09, 2016, 03:31:59 PM
Quote
Crimea would still be a part of Ukraine

Not so sure about that myself. Almost a year prior to the events on Maidan, the Kremlin had already contracted for and conducted a poll to find out where Crimean residents stood on the issue of independence, remaining with Ukraine, or joining the RF.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 09, 2016, 03:47:43 PM
as someone who celebrated a few “Victory Day” parades in Sevastopol, I can tell you the mood in Crimea was always pro-Russian, however it was the paralysis of Maidan that handed Putin the opportunity he needed to seize it, had there been a functioning Ukrainian government there would have been military resistance to Russian occupation like there was over Donbas, Putin only invaded when he was sure there’d be no Ukrainian resistance, and there was none, not a single shot was fired by the Ukrainian side during the takeover, which I find remarkable...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 09, 2016, 04:44:53 PM
FT:
Again, a little knowledge, just a little, would keep you from making silly comments.


Meanwhile FT's education continues...   :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 09, 2016, 05:22:21 PM

Please do not allow your ignorance of the region to colour your misguided thinking as to Russia having enough spare cash to throw out loans
, as if it is no big deal. It is a big deal, and under the threat of all that he has to lose, Putin simply has no choice other than to continue the frustrating bailouts.

At least he will get something valuable, he usually does, with each bailout. Luka doesn't get the money for free.


Despite your prior efforts to bolster your own 'unbiased' credentials, your post clearly demonstrate that you anything but...Contrast that with your silence to obvious off-base anti-Russian comments.   


Money will be exchanged for the benefit of Belarus, of course Russia will also benefit from this.  When we the US 'give' money it is characterized as being altruistic, obviously that is usually not the case. 


You have once again added in ignorant personalized comments, and ascribed thoughts (that weren't mine).  So when I read your commentary regarding Russia on this subject, I often think you are not portraying aspects accurately regarding them.   I guess it galls you that Russia isn't as broke as you would like. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2016, 05:40:35 PM
It seems that a couple more Russian soldiers,  Captain Sergey Kutsenko and Major Andrey Kornyak, from the Russian Joint Centre for Control and Coordination (JCCC) were headed for some R&R and got lost! They were arrested by the Ukrainian SBU Security Service at a border check point.   :wallbash:

The SBU Border services soldiers inspected their belongings and found 14 manuals on military affairs marked as "distribution limited",the insignia of DPR and LPR, chevrons of different types.

 Whoopsie   :cluebat:  Putinmeister isn't going to be happy being shown a liar once again.  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 09, 2016, 05:48:40 PM

Despite your prior efforts to bolster....blah....blah....blah....

LAME!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on February 09, 2016, 06:22:15 PM
as someone who celebrated a few “Victory Day” parades in Sevastopol, I can tell you the mood in Crimea was always pro-Russian,

yes of course , most ukrainians where generally pro russian &especially on victory day , as the great patriotic war was fought as the USSR , under one banner together , why would they not be pro russian ?

 did they expect russia to betray that trust and friendship ?? brother to brother ??  of course not ,

Quote
it was the paralysis of Maidan that handed Putin the opportunity he needed to seize it 

incorrect , putin clearly had made plans to invade/occupy crimea well in advance of maidan ,
 as he had over many years infiltrated the ukrainian military, gov and all service arms with key russian personnel  operating under his instructions , he had boosted his base in sevastopol to max numbers , he was prepared !!

Quote
had there been a functioning Ukrainian government there would have been military resistance to Russian occupation like there was over Donbas, ..

my view is that in the first instance in crimea , the ukrainian gov was caught off guard and without any warning of hostilitys from the russian side they neither knew & could not initially  concisely identify the ''little green men '' or where prepared to defend crimea against them , this initial confusion allowed the little green men the full 48 hours they needed to take control effectivly of all important infastructure & entrap the  ukrainian military bases , including belbek airfield  which was key in the invasion

Quote
Putin only invaded when he was sure there’d be no Ukrainian resistance, and there was none, not a single shot was fired by the Ukrainian side during the takeover, which I find remarkable...

putin  planned well in advance to invade crimea, he just needed to wait until the oppurtunity arose , partially of his own making and put it into action ,
what would have been achieved if ukraine had of fired back ??  total death and further killing of the population with the eventual result being defeat anyway , due to the ukraine sides lack of preparedness to fight back against an enemy they had believed to be an ally ?  while russia was totally prepared and on a war footing invading crimea ??with its bases fully loaded and fully prepared to fight ?

the donbass was different as by this time ukraine had confronted the reality that their ''ally '' & ''friend'' in russia was an aggressor who was waging a stealth war with them ? so it must be fight or again they would be invaded and lose more territory

SX 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2016, 06:50:13 PM
Moscow's War on Kiosk owners.

Despite having current legal leases, current rental fees, current const. codes Moscow is tearing down up to 8,700 small business kiosks scattered though out the city. There will be no compensation for the investment that the owners have.  Rebuilding could triple the cost of the shops in the name of 'beautuification'.

 The city has promised to build new ones, but none have been built yet. Meanwhile the old ones are being torn down in the middle of the night, some still full of merchandise.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2016, 06:57:35 PM
Moscow's airports are losing 76 million dollars due to flight bans from Turkey, Ukraine and Egypt. Not to mention the loss from the economic situation, so what do they do?

 Build a new one! The new Ramenskoye Airport is set to open in March.  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 09, 2016, 07:33:12 PM
>yes of course , most ukrainians where generally pro russian &especially on victory day , as the
 >great patriotic war was fought as the USSR , under one banner together , why would they not
 >be pro russian ?

big difference in being “pro-Russian" and being “Russian". Sevastopol for example had only 1% of it’s population survive the war, the population was replaced by Stalin in the 1950‘s with Russians from the Ural mountain region, these are the people who re-built the city and they and their descendents make up the vast majority of the population today, when the flags flew on victory day on “Bolshaya Morskaya ostrovskoy”, I saw quite literally hundreds of Russian flags and not a single Ukrainian one, and I really mean not a single damned one!

>did they expect russia to betray that trust and friendship ?? brother to brother ??  of course not ,

well yes they should have, because there were actually precedents, and it was why Ukraine stationed their own troops in Sevastopol.  In the past there were issues over the lease expiring on Russian military bases in Crimea, and I well remember in 1998 both Russian and Ukrainian soldiers marching in armed patrols in downtown Sevastopol over this issue, with each side displaying force until a new lease agreement was made, also in 2004-2006 time frame NATO held joint exercises with Ukraine over exactly the scenario of Russia seizing Crimea, so yeah I think they considered it as a realistic possibility and made some preparation for such a situation

Putin I’m sure had plans for invading Crimea before 2014, I’m sure plans existed even during Yeltsin’s time.  However, I would certainly relate the timing of events in Maidan to the taking of Crimea, after all Yanukovych left Kyiv on February 22, 2014, and On February 27, armed men seized the Crimean parliament and raised the Russian flag. 

Putin is an opportunist, and Maidan created an opportunity for him, if Poroshenko’s government collapses I expect Ukraine will hand him another opportunity

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on February 09, 2016, 08:15:57 PM
Quote
krimster ..Putin is an opportunist, and Maidan created an opportunity for him, if Poroshenko’s government collapses I expect Ukraine will hand him another opportunit
putin has shown he has tactical skills and strategys for events that may happen or he may be responsible for happening ,

people with his psychology & training  are always looking how to advantage themselves by their actions

Quote
big difference in being “pro-Russian" and being “Russian
yes to some degree true
however since 1954 crimea has been ukrainian, so many have that citizenship , and withotu any ''honest poll on the invasion/occupation/annexation of crimea in 2014, we will never know how the population would have chosen or voted on being pro russian in sentiment or actually becoming russian


crimea is not the same now , realisation may have set in
my guess is that russia would not have gotten  the outright vote that they would have needed , so they manipulated the situation to create the climate to take advantage of maidan and unleash their long held invasion plans onto the unsuspecting crimean populace , which they did succesfully

id believe many of the russain federations border countrys would also suffer the same fate if events line up in a similar way into the future

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2016, 08:44:18 PM
Russia is refusing to attend in the Minsk peace talks on Donbas on February 10. No reason given.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 09, 2016, 08:56:37 PM
The International Association of Athletics Federations showed the list of 4,027 Russian athletes banned from international competitions for doping. This list contains a total of 4,027 names, but it's not finalized.
Experts say it is highly possible that Russian teams will be suspended from the Summer Olympic Games held in Brazil.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 10, 2016, 01:29:31 AM
Quote
I guess it galls you that Russia isn't as broke as you would like.

Just as any Russian on the street whether Russia is broke. Again, you write from a position of ignorance.

Frankly, as someone whose household operates on Rubles, it would be idiocy to think that I wish for Russia to be poor.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 10, 2016, 07:51:40 AM

Frankly, as someone whose household operates on Rubles, it would be idiocy to think that I wish for Russia to be poor.


Yeah, well you have an escape hatch that most people in Russia don't have.  Regardless, clearly you are ok with the vast majority of anti Russian comments...but the moment a moderately positive comment comes up, your panties immediately hike up, and get twisted...You will read more into the comment while overlaying it with your own falsely added implications (As if they are mine).... it is interesting to view it happen, and give you opportunity to expose yourself.   :popcorn:


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 10, 2016, 10:40:41 AM
Actually I don't have the escape hatch that you imagine. True that I can leave, but the prevailing trend for those that get in the crosshairs of the government is to allow the Western spouse to leave, but deny exit for anyone else in the family. If both do manage to leave, which is not that often, assets left behind such as homes, cars, bank accounts, etc, seem to mysterious evaporate.

Oh, and what colour are your panties today, FT?  (I adore blue, just so you know.)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on February 10, 2016, 04:17:38 PM
Moscow's airports are losing 76 million dollars due to flight bans from Turkey, Ukraine and Egypt. Not to mention the loss from the economic situation, so what do they do?

 Build a new one! The new Ramenskoye Airport is set to open in March.  :wallbash:

Flight bans from Turkey??? Apparently the web sites aren't listening to you Mike!!!!
http://www.skyscanner.com/transport/flights/ista/mosc/160217/160224/airfares-from-istanbul-to-moscow-in-february-2016.html?adults=1&children=0&infants=0&cabinclass=economy&rtn=1&preferdirects=false&outboundaltsenabled=false&inboundaltsenabled=false#results

Now gets a little tricky between Russia and Ukraine, you need a middle man city to book a flight between those countries but still doable ( such as Belarus, Moldova, Latvia, Germany, ect.).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 10, 2016, 04:51:46 PM
The Moscow Times must not be aware of these. Write them and clue them into your secret.   :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 10, 2016, 05:21:02 PM


Oh, and what colour are your panties today, FT?  (I adore blue, just so you know.)
I'm wearing blue plaid boxers today, but I doubt you would enjoy the site of them.


Actually I don't have the escape hatch that you imagine. True that I can leave, but the prevailing trend for those that get in the crosshairs of the government is to allow the Western spouse to leave, but deny exit for anyone else in the family. If both do manage to leave, which is not that often, assets left behind such as homes, cars, bank accounts, etc, seem to mysterious evaporate.
Regardless of what you are saying, you have clearly shown major bias in how you respond to posts.  If you are denying this bias, I don't find that believable.  As I've previously mentioned, posts that are clearly a distortion of facts when anti-Russian are usually looked past, whereas a rather moderate comment that states something moderately positive regarding Russia is blasted, as is the person bringing the subject up.  All this can easily lead a person to question, how YOU present your case, what you might be omitting or discounting altogether. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on February 10, 2016, 06:39:58 PM
I'm wearing blue plaid boxers today, but I doubt you would enjoy the site of them.

You are SO right!  I wouldn't particularly enjoy the sight of them, either.  :devil:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 10, 2016, 06:57:58 PM

...You will read more into the comment while overlaying it....blah....blah....blah....

More lameness!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on February 10, 2016, 10:34:01 PM
The Moscow Times must not be aware of these. Write them and clue them into your secret.   :clapping:

akamike
 
As someone who uses TURKISH AIRLINES to get in and out of Russia.[Istanbul - Sochi ] I know that only the licences for CHARTER flights and Holidays [VACATIONS] were pulled by the Kremlin.

I last used them on DEC 30TH...

I am no fan of some of Putin's policies - but I wish certain posters could be more / careful accurate about what they write about day to day life in Russia - as I  tell Russians- who bring up that our w. media is biased - that - in my opinion - our TV news is often more accurate and objective and less agenda based..That it is a good idea to look at both and evaluate / question what is missing/ different

Those posting misleading info only re-enforce trolls looking to say '' you see - I told you - they lie about our country''....










Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2016, 05:06:03 PM
While browsing about the internet, I happened to run across this little article from FOX NEWS discussing the strength of the dollar being helpful to Russian governmental finances.
The dollar is strong, but the US stock market has been dropping like a stone, and that is where a lot of our wealth lies.   



Russia's ruble tumbles amid market turmoil



MOSCOW –  Russia's ruble has dropped nearly 2 percent amid the turmoil affecting global stock markets and oil prices.

The ruble was down by 1.9 percent at 80.1 rubles to the U.S. dollar in late afternoon trading in Moscow on Thursday.....

Economists say the ruble still has not fallen low enough to help government finances, which have been hurt by the collapse in oil prices. A weaker ruble helps boost state coffers because the state gets its oil revenue in dollars.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/02/11/russia-ruble-tumbles-amid-market-turmoil.html (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/02/11/russia-ruble-tumbles-amid-market-turmoil.html)


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 11, 2016, 06:11:33 PM
While browsing about the internet, I happened to run across this little article...blah....blah....blah....

Clutching at straws...
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 11, 2016, 08:18:53 PM
missmoibyone

 Tell that to the folks over AT THE Moscow Times. They did the homework not I.  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 11, 2016, 10:31:09 PM
Clutching at straws...
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


I don't see why a major US news outlet would make up a story about the positives aspects for Russia as the dollar remains strong.  It seems legit to me, the strong dollars remain better than weak ones, since Russia receives a significant amount of them for their oil.  When/if Russia pulls out of this financial quandary, I won't be surprised if they switch their oil sales to a currency other than the dollar, but that will be down the line since for now the dollar is doing them a solid.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 12, 2016, 01:54:19 AM
Dear Lord, FT.

If the weak ruble is so fantastic for Russia, then why is the Russian government accusing the USA of manipulating world currencies, and especially the ruble, in order to "defeat Russia" (their phrasing)?

Why are more Russians in debt that ever before?
(Moscow Times (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/559229.html): Incomes have been falling during Russia's economic slump, and more people than ever are struggling to repay loans. During 2015 the value of overdue loans increased by almost 50 percent to 1.15 trillion rubles ($15 billion).

Did you really write that the US dollar is "doing them a solid?"   :ROFL:

The government, the media, and the average man on the street blames the USA for these things. If they were "doing a solid" then why the hell are Russians so angry about it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2016, 07:12:34 AM
Dear Lord, FT.

If the weak ruble is so fantastic for Russia, then why is the Russian government accusing the USA of manipulating world currencies, and especially the ruble, in order to "defeat Russia" (their phrasing)?




I submit this as further evidence....nowhere have I said that the weak ruble is 'fantastic'..this is merely YOU attempting to misstate for affect, as you often do.  I realize that Russia has been overall weakened financially.
I have stated that the dollar being strong is better than the dollar being weak.  Imagine low oil prices AND a weak dollar against currencies such as the Euro.  You may believe that is impossible, but it isn't. 


Did you really write that the US dollar is "doing them a solid?"   :ROFL:

The government, the media, and the average man on the street blames the USA for these things. If they were "doing a solid" then why the hell are Russians so angry about it?



Are you REALLY going to invoke the 'average Russian on the street'?  After mocking the average Russian on the street for the past couple years as being sheep, as his been done here, now you suddenly want to use them as a barometer. Interesting how items like this get manipulated. 


Fathertime!
 


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 12, 2016, 07:28:42 AM

Are you REALLY going to invoke the 'average Russian on the street'?  After mocking the average Russian on the street for the past couple years as being sheep, as his been done here, now you suddenly want to use them as a barometer. Interesting how items like this get manipulated. 


Fathertime!

So does the average man on the street in Russian not count in FT world as to what the weak ruble and strong dollar means to "Russia"?

Case in point my MIL. A pensioner, retired school teacher use to living off of $380 a month now living off of what amounts to $80-$90 a month. Would you like to explain to her how much good the strong dollar does for her?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2016, 09:49:17 AM
So does the average man on the street in Russian not count in FT world as to what the weak ruble and strong dollar means to "Russia"?
 

Intentional distortion.  My point was regarding suddenly invoking 'average Russians'. 

Many here discount "Average Russians" as being sheep.  So to NOW invoke their feelings of anger toward the US as evidence as mendeleyev is doing, just seems like a contradiction.  Some claim they are 'ignorant sheep' one minute, but when they can be used as 'useful idiots' to  attempt to make a  point there is no hesitation to trot them out. 


Case in point my MIL. A pensioner, retired school teacher use to living off of $380 a month now living off of what amounts to $80-$90 a month. Would you like to explain to her how much good the strong dollar does for her?

I don't know about your specific example, but I do know that YOU are punching at a strawman.    If the dollar were weak, it would mean the Russian oil sales would buy even less internationally. 

Can you explain why $380 be worth only $80 now?  The ruble has gone from 35-1 on dollar to perhaps 80-1 or less.   That is well LESS than 3 times times difference, whereas your example is near a 5 times difference.

Fathertime!   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on February 12, 2016, 10:07:35 AM
Ochka has Russian boy in her Differential Equations class.
He was telling her yesterday that he wouldn't be able to continue for next semester because his parents can't come up with the USD at the 80 to 1 ratio.
He was pretty emotional and near tears, as he really likes to go to university here.

She gently reminded him that Russia had caused this problem for themselves by invading Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

He said that he and other young folks were not happy with this and other things that Russia was doing.

Don't know how his comment squares with huge approval ratings that Putin gets.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 12, 2016, 10:07:39 AM
Intentional distortion.  My point was regarding suddenly invoking 'average Russians'. 

You're a liar but, who's surprised? Not I. I asked you a pertinent and direct question to which you have evaded. If there is distortion, it is yours.

Quote
Many here discount "Average Russians" as being sheep.  So to NOW invoke their feelings of anger toward the US as evidence as mendeleyev is doing, just seems like a contradiction.  Some claim they are 'ignorant sheep' one minute, but when they can be used as 'useful idiots' to  attempt to make a  point there is no hesitation to trot them out.
 

What some here may or may not discount as being sheep is completely irrelevant. Your straw man is noted. Are you saying average Russians do not count, yes or no? What do you refer to as Russia?

Quote
I don't know about your specific example, but I do know that YOU are punching at a strawman.    If the dollar were weak, it would mean the Russian oil sales would buy even less internationally. 

Can you explain why $380 be worth only $80 now?  The ruble has gone from 35-1 on dollar to perhaps 80-1 or less.   That is well LESS than 3 times times difference, whereas your example is near a 5 times difference.

I told you all you need to know about my specific example. There is no straw man on my part fatman. You should check the history of the USD vs RUB. My MIL is about as much as average Russian as you can get. The strong dollar you said was doing a solid for Russians. Please, explain how? You are the one shooting your mouth off about a strong dollar helps Russia. Russians aren't Russia in FT's bizzaro world? As usual you don't have a clue as to what you mouth off about.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 12, 2016, 11:23:11 AM
Add in the 15 + % inflation too.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 12, 2016, 11:41:55 AM
>Ochka has Russian boy in her Differential Equations class.

maybe he would have enough money to study 'partial differential equations' :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2016, 11:44:45 AM
You're a liar but, who's surprised? Not I. I asked you a pertinent and direct question to which you have evaded. If there is distortion, it is yours.
 

 

Yup, you distorted. 
Your question was an effort to change the subject to something I wasn't commenting on.  EVERYBODY knows the Russian on the street is harmed by the dramatic decrease in the value of the Ruble.  That doesn't change the fact that Russia continues to receive DOLLARS for their oil, which does mitigate some of their losses, since the dollar is so powerful against many currencies at the moment.   


I told you all you need to know about my specific example. There is no straw man on my part fatman. 
Yup I'm the "Fatman"
So you GREATLY exaggerate your example...from what can be ascertained.  The Ruble has gone from around 35..to 80 or less...and suddenly the pension is from $380 to $80....yeah that doesn't make sense (yet).. Doesn't that make YOU the liar?  I was, and am willing to discuss rationally, but only with others that do the same....you are often unable do that, but that is your problem.    So far what you said regarding a pension going from $380 to $80 doesn't make sense.   

Fathertime! 





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2016, 12:17:27 PM
Add in the 15 + % inflation too.

I was reading that the recent inflation rate is actually 9.8% 

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/inflation-cpi (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/inflation-cpi)

Consumer prices in Russia increased 9.8 percent year-on-year in January of 2016, down from 12.9 percent in the previous month, slightly below market expectations. It was the lowest reading since November of 2014, as cost of......





Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 12, 2016, 01:45:42 PM
Yup, you distorted. 
Your question was an effort to change the subject to something I wasn't commenting on.  EVERYBODY knows the Russian on the street is harmed by the dramatic decrease in the value of the Ruble.  That doesn't change the fact that Russia continues to receive DOLLARS for their oil, which does mitigate some of their losses, since the dollar is so powerful against many currencies at the moment.   Yup I'm the "Fatman"
So you GREATLY exaggerate your example...from what can be ascertained.  The Ruble has gone from around 35..to 80 or less...and suddenly the pension is from $380 to $80....yeah that doesn't make sense (yet)..Doesn't that make YOU the liar? I was, and am willing to discuss rationally, but only with others that do the same....you are often unable do that, but that is your problem.    So far what you said regarding a pension going from $380 to $80 doesn't make sense.   

Fathertime!

Nope.

I'll help you. Let's see if you can figure it out.

Russia was receiving dollars for oil when the ruble was at 22-1 USD and the dollar's strength wasn't noticeably different on the world market than it is now.

The figure I used $380- $80/$90 was general but still close. You do your math.

Inflation is a general reaction to a dropping currency.

No you are not willing to discuss or debate anything rationally. You state your narrow-minded opinion or something you read on the net and expect everyone to accept it as fact. You are what one would consider intellectually lazy. A sheeple and natural born follower
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2016, 02:32:11 PM
Nope.

I'll help you. Let's see if you can figure it out.

Russia was receiving dollars for oil when the ruble was at 22-1 USD and the dollar's strength wasn't noticeably different on the world market than it is now.
 
Yup a distortion.   

I looked at the Chart of Ruble to dollar....going back a ways to the year 2000  the LOWEST it has been was 23-1.   That was very brief and a highwater mark, and you cherry pick that moment as a base for comparison.. You really had to contort, and slightly exaggerate to get there. It takes a gymnast to make your story add up. 



No you are not willing to discuss or debate anything rationally. You state your narrow-minded opinion or something you read on the net and expect everyone to accept it as fact. You are what one would consider intellectually lazy. A sheeple and natural born follower
The reason you say this is because it defines YOU...It has always been obvious you think of yourself highly/differently, but you are mistaken.  You have never shown any real grasp of complicated issues. 

I do not expect people to accept what I say as fact.  I'd prefer points to not be distorted, but I realize that is par for the course.   When a point is made that makes sense I'm agreeable to changing an opinion...YOU on the other hand become irate when contradicted in practically way, it is always amusing to watch your predictable reaction.

Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Faux Pas on February 12, 2016, 02:47:53 PM
Yup a distortion.   

I looked at the Chart of Ruble to dollar....going back a ways to the year 2000  the LOWEST it has been was 23-1.   That was very brief and a highwater mark, and you cherry pick that moment as a base for comparison.. You really had to contort, and slightly exaggerate to get there. It takes a gymnast to make your story add up. 

I've already tired of doing your work for you. You lazy bastard. Our discussion spawned from what was my MIL's standard of living. You remember? $380- $80/$90 per month living allowance? I didn't contort anything. This arose from the "solid" the strong dollar was doing Russia. Have you been check for dementia? Yes, she has lived through $22-1 USD/ruble and now 80-1. She's 84 years old.  What exactly did I contort? Add that up

 
Quote
The reason you say this is because it defines YOU...It has always been obvious you think of yourself highly/differently, but you are mistaken.  You have never shown any real grasp of complicated issues. 

I do not expect people to accept what I say as fact.  I'd prefer points to not be distorted, but I realize that is par for the course.   When a point is made that makes sense I'm agreeable to changing an opinion...YOU on the other hand become irate when contradicted in practically way, it is always amusing to watch your predictable reaction.

Whatever you say  :rolleyes:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2016, 04:17:31 PM
I've already tired of doing your work for you. You lazy bastard. 
Take a nap then, and I liked being called Fatman more than a lazy bastard.


Our discussion spawned from what was my MIL's standard of living. You remember? $380- $80/$90 per month living allowance? I didn't contort anything. This arose from the "solid" the strong dollar was doing Russia. Have you been check for dementia? Yes, she has lived through $22-1 USD/ruble and now 80-1. She's 84 years old.  What exactly did I contort? Add that up



I have added it up.  Even using the numbers on the extreme ends they don't add up.  23-1 vs todays 78-1 are pretty much the extreme ends since 2000. 

The basis of the discussion was your intentional misrepresentation of my earlier point.  Many here mock the average "Russian on the street" except when if they are displaying emotions to be exploited...then suddenly they are a fountain of knowledge.  I was pointing out the hypocrisy with certain posters positions. If the Russian people are to be mocked as 'sheep' then it would be hypocritical to all of sudden paint their viewpoints as god's word when you like what they are saying.     I wasn't saying that Russians aren't suffering or paying a price for recent events....but it is interesting to watch how some attempted to pin that position on me. 

Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on February 12, 2016, 04:19:09 PM
>Ochka has Russian boy in her Differential Equations class.

maybe he would have enough money to study 'partial differential equations' :)

I don't know if that course is any cheaper.

I thought it was for those who weren't smart enough to do full differential equations.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 12, 2016, 07:43:26 PM
In the newest poll by the Levada Center, who usually reports an increase for the Huilomeisters popularity now has reported a sharp drop. It was up in the lower to mid 80's IIRC Support now is only from 53% of the population. They must be noticing empty refrigerators and high prices due to the sanctions.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 12, 2016, 10:24:49 PM
  I was, and am willing to discuss rationally, but only with others that do the same....

Name ONE (1) poster here that takes what you write here seriously...
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 12, 2016, 10:41:10 PM
Name ONE (1) poster here that takes what you write here seriously...
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


What is for certain, is that your posts are always meaningless, and are not taken seriously.  :D


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on February 13, 2016, 05:17:05 AM
missmoibyone

 Tell that to the folks over AT THE Moscow Times. They did the homework not I.  :cluebat:

It's ok, AkMike

we can all make mistakes and it was very gracious of you to defer, without any childish name calling...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 13, 2016, 12:40:22 PM
That's not my style. Name calling is childish.

 But I only talked about the shown info at that news source.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on February 13, 2016, 01:58:31 PM
I am involved in numerous online marketing groups. Freelancers, copywriters, SEO, web design, etc. People who make a living remotely online.

As of late there have been complaints from a number of people who are either Russian or living in Russia. It is starting to affect their income.

"I'm a Russian resident who's a native English speaker. Recently, the Russian currency has devalued by ~250%, so I'm looking for online jobs that pay in dollars... Specifically, I've been making lots of pitches on Upwork, and I've run into a pretty big problem...

 NOBODY WANTS TO HIRE MY RUSSIAN ASS"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 13, 2016, 04:35:45 PM
Hmmm tell the huilomeister that his decisions suck?   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 14, 2016, 11:43:28 PM
Some number of days ago Russian freight was banned from Polish lands, Now Ukraine has halted Russian freight transport also in areas with more to come. Of course they blocked UA freight is a tit for tat. Turkey has them blocked on the southern route also. I suppose that they can take a log route thru Finland but they're getting tense there too
 Russia is almost blocked from EU access. Isolated....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on February 15, 2016, 01:53:18 AM
Some number of days ago Russian freight was banned from Polish lands, Now Ukraine has halted Russian freight transport also in areas with more to come. Of course they blocked UA freight is a tit for tat. Turkey has them blocked on the southern route also. I suppose that they can take a log route thru Finland but they're getting tense there too
 Russia is almost blocked from EU access. Isolated....

Good, it is what they deserve.  When Crimea is returned and all the Russian military is removed from Donbass, and reparations are paid, then perhaps Russia can return to the civilized world.  In the mean time the pressure should be kept on Putin to become civilized.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 15, 2016, 05:10:11 AM
http://us.yahoo.com/sports/news/disgraced-ex-chief-russias-anti-doping-agency-dies-071152358--spt.html


Maybe the botox midget sent one of his goons to bump this guy off for causing embarrassment to the country?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2016, 10:41:17 AM
 :cluebat:  He failed to cheat properly   :cluebat:


 Automatic death sentence w/o trial.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2016, 10:58:20 AM
Bosnia Herzegovina files formal application to join EU.    :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2016, 11:20:13 AM
Some number of days ago Russian freight was banned from Polish lands, Now Ukraine has halted Russian freight transport also in areas with more to come. Of course they blocked UA freight is a tit for tat. Turkey has them blocked on the southern route also. I suppose that they can take a log route thru Finland but they're getting tense there too
 Russia is almost blocked from EU access. Isolated....

Now it's more than local roadblocks in different regions, Ukraine officially bans transit of Russian trucks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on February 15, 2016, 11:48:34 AM
Now it's more than local roadblocks in different regions, Ukraine officially bans transit of Russian trucks.

Good, should have been done a long time ago.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on February 15, 2016, 04:08:58 PM
Now it's more than local roadblocks in different regions, Ukraine officially bans transit of Russian trucks.

http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2617331.html  Silly, they just punished themselves, no transit for ukranian trucks through Russia anymore.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2016, 04:15:21 PM
Better check your Pravda again. Russia blocked a train from crossing to China first.

 Of course that after they stole Krym and invaded eastern UA.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2016, 05:35:37 PM
Besides that, Ukraine's blocking of the transit of Russian trucks does not violate any international treaties, in particular, the World Trade Organization. That is the message was from Nataliya Mykolska the Ukrainian Deputy Trade Minister.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 15, 2016, 07:11:16 PM
Russia's  Deputy Foreign Minister of Russia Grigory Karasin says Russia has no intention to return control over state border to Ukraine despite the MinskII.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 16, 2016, 01:05:28 PM
Forbes had a very good artlcle yesterday about the economic situation in Russia with data from polling done by Levada Center, Russia's largest pollster, titled "Signs Of Patience Running Thin In Russia"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on February 16, 2016, 02:05:21 PM
In my opinion, it is no accident that Sergei Ivanov (all the security services answer to him) has been publicly elevated to what amounts to the number 2 spot (a position not found in the RF Constitution) recently. He now shares the spotlight at Kremlin events and sometimes chairs meetings that were formerly reserved only for the president.

In a recent interview with state-owned media he went so far to say that not all decisions are decided by the Kremlin.

The bad news: he is thought to be even more of a hardliner than Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on February 16, 2016, 05:38:01 PM
interesting article here

clearly shows the long and deep standing trust and respect between these two men

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/9910399/Vladimir-Putins-chief-of-staff-muses-on-their-time-as-young-spies.html

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 23, 2016, 11:31:26 PM
Hungary changes it's mind over the purchase of 30 Russian helicopters. An estimated 490 million dollar deal.

1 billion Euro's worth of Russian assets seized in France because of the Yuko's oil theft from stockholders.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on February 23, 2016, 11:43:46 PM
Hungary changes it's mind over the purchase of 30 Russian helicopters. An estimated 490 million dollar deal.

1 billion Euro's worth of Russian assets seized in France because of the Yuko's oil theft from stockholders.

Is there a link?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 24, 2016, 12:21:41 AM
Do a Google search Doug. 
 I won't post links here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on February 24, 2016, 03:03:52 AM
Is there a link?

AkMike has a history of posting snippets of whatever he can google that fits his agenda.  A sort of obscure, unbalanced 'news blast' of what he thinks is newsworthy and will excite us. 
Just google the entire snippet and you will find the source easily.

Note that he does not engage much in true discourse and most certainly the majority of his posts are construed to provoke rather than expound his personal views and opinion, giving little to rebut.

Barely tolerated, rarely read and best ignored.

Obviously a very lonely troll.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 24, 2016, 05:26:05 PM
Because my reply posts seem to disappear just put me on ignore if you don't like the news.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 24, 2016, 06:20:16 PM
The Israeli paper the Jerusalem Post is reporting that dozens of Russian generals were killed as a car bomb exploded at a military base near Latakia, Syria.  I wonder how many were in Ukraine earlier?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on February 24, 2016, 07:02:50 PM
The Israeli paper the Jerusalem Post is reporting that dozens of Russian generals were killed as a car bomb exploded at a military base near Latakia, Syria.  I wonder how many were in Ukraine earlier?
doesn't sound plausible.


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 24, 2016, 11:13:21 PM
Bloomberg Business had a very interesting article yesterday titled," Can Things Get Any Worse for Russia? You're About to Find Out ".

 Its well worth the time to look it over.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 24, 2016, 11:36:05 PM
Russia Insider reports that Iran has abandoned plans to buy Russian T-90 tanks and instead to build their own.  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 25, 2016, 12:11:04 PM
The Moscow Times has now reported that the Kremlin won't comment of the Ahrar al-Sham Jihadist opposition group claim of killing dozens of Russian Generals several days ago.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on February 25, 2016, 04:20:38 PM
Oh dear, is the botox midget's serfdom running short of coins?  :popcorn:

http://www.usnews.com/news/sports/articles/2016-02-25/russia-cuts-world-cup-budget-again-after-economic-pressure
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 25, 2016, 05:02:04 PM
Oh dear, is the botox midget's serfdom running short of coins?  :popcorn:

http://www.usnews.com/news/sports/articles/2016-02-25/russia-cuts-world-cup-budget-again-after-economic-pressure

Another one for you !!
The Chinese expect to turn the Russian Far East into resort.

After 20 years, the Far East is a Chinese resort

http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/konets-rossyy-cherez-20-let-dalnyj-vostok-budet-kytajskym-kurortom/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on February 25, 2016, 05:04:15 PM
The Moscow Time has a fluff piece telling that according to the Federal Guard Service, almost 60% percent of residents of Russia's one industry towns consider their socio-economic situation to be hardly bearable or unbearable.

 Times are getting hard in Huilostan. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on March 15, 2016, 12:49:33 AM
The Moscow Times is reporting of villagers in the occupied area seeing the missile launch that shot down MH17 come from the rebel held area.  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on March 22, 2016, 01:43:19 AM
Oh dear!
Looks like the midget is starting to lose the trust amongst the general population.
Maybe the polls will go back up after the midget gets his yearly botox top up?


http://us.yahoo.com/news/vladimir-putins-public-trust-rating-drops-10-percent-135259699--business.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on March 22, 2016, 02:03:45 AM
Will be interesting to see how the midget's mouthpiece spins this news...

http://www.newsweek.com/number-russians-living-poverty-jumps-decade-record-high-439113
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 26, 2016, 01:06:11 AM
No one in Ukraine is forgetting who is responsible for many of Ukraine's problems today!
in Odessa they commemorated him-again !! :)
The video, in which the fans are singing a song about Putin, was published on YouTube.

It is reported that during the match fans repeatedly struck up a song about the President of Russia, and the first time it was performed after a minute of silence in memory of those killed in the terrorist attacks in Brussels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlxxae0rHRk
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 27, 2016, 02:24:29 PM
Whilst Russia continues to deny that its troops are fighting in the ongoing Ukrainian conflict, a respected news site in Russia seemingly inadvertently published secret figures that detail deaths and causalities of forces on the ground.
More solid confirmation -- and explanation of how information unfolds about the Russian invasion of Ukraine.Of course--one can choose to think that they know better than all the other sources--perhaps some here on forum can continue denying the invasion as being a SHADOW of everyone else's imagination!!!
Here is some interesting information.To be noted-- these numbers are probably very conservative and do not take into account the hired mercenaries , thugs ,misguided individuals etc that have been killed.
The article also speculates on Putin's "popularity" if real facts are disclosed.

Russia 'accidentally reveals' number of its soldiers killed in eastern Ukraine

According to Forbes, Russian news site Business Life (Delovaya Zhizn) revealed what seem to be official figures detailing the number of Russian troops killed and injured in "Eastern Ukraine." The site, which generally focuses on coverage of markets, finance and leisure, posted a piece entitled “Increases in Pay for Military in 2015,” that at first glance would be uncontroversial.

But the article appears to detail the numbers of Russian deaths, as well as the figures for those injuried. The content was hastily removed, but it was webcached by the Ukrainian journal Novy Region (New Region).

Putin decreed in May this year that all military deaths are to remain state secrets. In the past, only deaths in wartime were classified. At the time, Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov denied the decision was connected to fighting in Ukraine, simply stating that the law change was part of "the improvement of the state secret law."

 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-number-of-russian-troops-killed-or-injured-fighting-in-ukraine-seems-to-have-been-accidentally-10472603.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 27, 2016, 05:40:32 PM
Jay, that article was published in August last year.  Has it not already been linked on RWD?  I'm sure that I remember seeing it before.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on March 27, 2016, 06:37:34 PM

It is reported that during the match fans repeatedly struck up a song about the President of Russia, and the first time it was performed after a minute of silence in memory of those killed in the terrorist attacks in Brussels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlxxae0rHRk

How will the regime react when foreign football fans inevitably do the huilo chants during World Cup matches in 2018?
Mute out the sound during the live broadcast?  :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 27, 2016, 06:41:09 PM
We can only hope!

The WC should never be in Russia.If FIFA was not as corrupt as Russia it would not be happening-- and if FIFA had an ounce of decency-- Russia should be stripped  of WC now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on March 29, 2016, 12:44:33 AM
Jay, that article was published in August last year.  Has it not already been linked on RWD?  I'm sure that I remember seeing it before.

You are correct. It is an old article.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 29, 2016, 01:31:32 AM
Hey you guys-it is news to a lot of Russians !!
Also to a few on forum here who still cant concede how wrong they were for so long!!
 :)

But hey-- who remembers them !!! :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 09, 2016, 11:59:37 AM

Can't afford to support it, don't invade it!!!    :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Unian reports that Russia has postponed the funding for Crimea until 2017 and beyond, according to the Minister of Economic Development, Alexei Ulyukayev.

"We decided on the shift of the significant sums, back to moving them over to 2017 and the following years. This affected the amount of about RUB 23 billion. In view of this decision, there will be no other shifts," he said.

According to him, RUB 4.5 billion which is about 20% of the allocated funds  has been disbursed in the annexed Crimea last year,under the Russian federal program.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 12, 2016, 01:28:12 PM
Winners don't cheat and cheaters don't win.   :clapping: :clapping:

 Another Russian, boxer Igor Mikhalkin has been stripped of the European Boxing Union's  light heavyweight title and banned from the sport for two years after testing positive for meldonium,   :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 12, 2016, 01:37:04 PM
Do you remember the Ukrainian library in Moscow that was shut down and the librarian faces criminal charges?

Now they're going after information about anyone that's checked out a book!  :cluebat:  Including someone that borrowed a book 18 years ago!   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on April 13, 2016, 12:36:55 AM
There are fascists in Eastern Europe....but most of them are somewhere besides Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 14, 2016, 02:07:33 PM
Can't afford to support it, don't invade it!!!    :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The much vaunted bridge to Crimea from the former Ukrainian lands of Kuban has ground to a screeching halt as Russian engineers have discovered their plans weren't good enough. Work's been halted for at least a year.

 Of course this could easily be tied into the same reason as the above mention that Russia's broke and can't afford to fund Crimea.    :rolleyes:

 Let's do a recap of what's happened there. No water, no electricity, food prices have gone thru the roof, sanctions against businesses, lack of tourism, lack of money to pay for everything, persecution of the Tatars.. Just to name a few..

 Oh yeah.. Things are just peachy under Russia's thumb.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 14, 2016, 02:49:07 PM
Russia is still trying to force its citizenship on Gennady Afanasyev. He is one of the four Ukrainian opponents of Crimean annexation taken illegally to Russia and convicted of ‘terrorism’.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 14, 2016, 03:14:44 PM
In Vlad's speech this last week, he urged everyone to skip Egypt and Turkey and vacation in Crimea.......
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 14, 2016, 04:25:01 PM
In Vlad's speech this last week, he urged everyone to skip Egypt and Turkey and vacation in Crimea.......

2012 Six million tourists

2013 Six million tourists

2014 Two point six million tourists

2015 Four million tourists

 Oh Yeah the glory days of prosperity are just around the next corner.. Or maybe the one after that? Or maybe the next one?    :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 14, 2016, 05:48:06 PM
Mendy, Would you mind giving your opinion of the 14/4/16 Op-Ed by Melik Kaylan  at Forbes.com?  I found it very interesting speculation of the 'behind the door' power brokering by the Kremlin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on April 15, 2016, 08:30:49 AM
A lot of truth to it, but I don't completely share every conclusion.

Example: since Putin's two week disappearance, Sergei Ivanov suddenly began to appear in every public photo opt with Putin as the article suggests. That has not changed, and never before did we see anyone other than Putin or Medvedev meeting with foreign leaders. These days, it is often Ivanov who conducts those meetings. Even today on the presidential press portal, there are six meetings of various kinds with Putin over the past weeks. How many for Ivanov? The same: six.

Despite what the author writes, Ivanov has not been sidelined. At least not yet. Just last week who chaired the Kremlin meeting on organizing Russia's "Year of the Environment" for 2017? It was Sergei Ivanov.

(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/sergei-ivanov-committee-environment-hall.jpg?w=680)


Who chaired the meeting this past week on corruption and terrorism? It wasn't the head of the government, Prime Minister Medvedev. It was Ivanov.


(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/sergei-ivanov-committee-environment.jpg?w=680)


There are many things which the article gets right, and the major article that the author linked regarding Boris Nemtsov's murder. That piece was spot on in my estimation.

I wrote in February about "Who is Russia's Number 2 (http://russianreport.wordpress.com/2016/02/10/who-is-russias-number-2/)" and that article got a lot of attention. So, was there a reason why when climbing into a underwater ride in a submersible in Crimea that Putin made a cryptic comment about hoping he would survive? Was there a reason why upon reemerging he hugged Medvedev, but not Ivanov who was standing nearby? In fact, the larger question would be why Ivanov was there in the first place--a year ago he would have remained back in Moscow.

The article correctly noted that Putin's new chief of the Interior forces is a long time friend from St Petersburg, but so is Sergei Ivanov. I simply do not think that Ivanov is a "hunted man." Perhaps the hunted man is Putin, and that explains recent moves by the Kremlin.

All told, something is afoot and perhaps the author is on to the larger picture. He is right that the nationalization of all those Interior troops under direct control of the Kremlin was a political maneuver.

(photos: Presidential Press Service and the Mendeleyev Journal)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 15, 2016, 11:37:03 AM
Thank You Sir,for your view of the 'bigger picture' as well as the different view of the same news. It's interesting to be able to see it from others perspective!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 15, 2016, 12:28:25 PM
Can't afford to support it, don't invade it!!!    :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The much vaunted bridge to Crimea from the former Ukrainian lands of Kuban has ground to a screeching halt as Russian engineers have discovered their plans weren't good enough. Work's been halted for at least a year.

In the spirit of accuracy - could you post your 'source' ? As I understand it the RAIL bridge is going to be late - but there's been no 'grinding to a halt'.


What IS true is that previously promised funding for other projects has been put back a year.. for economic reasons'

Quote from: akmike


Of course this could easily be tied into the same reason as the above mention that Russia's broke and can't afford to fund Crimea.    :rolleyes:

 Let's do a recap of what's happened there. No water, no electricity, food prices have gone thru the roof, sanctions against businesses, lack of tourism, lack of money to pay for everything, persecution of the Tatars.. Just to name a few..

 Oh yeah.. Things are just peachy under Russia's thumb.

AKmike

Much as I condemn the 'away games' in Ukraine and the polarisation leading up to getting most Crimeans to want to  'go back' ...and I agree that the indigenous Tatars - have historically been shafted - I think we have to accept that most Crimeans don't feel 'under the thumb'...They are even geared up to face hardship - until part of the RF road/ rail / electricity infrastructure.


Food prices have gone through the roof in Russia and Ukraine - as the respective currencies weakened - for differing reasons

Please don't think I'm apologising for the Kremlin's role in creating this horrible polarisation - but the bridge is coming - no delay to the ROAD bridge ...it has been advertised so much - it couldn't and wouldn't be be delayed for budgetary reasons.

http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/14/crimea-russia-bridge-delayed-by-one-year/ (http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/14/crimea-russia-bridge-delayed-by-one-year/)





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 15, 2016, 01:19:10 PM
msmobyone,
 I have previously stated that I will not post links here any more. I'm very sure that I'd get nailed for "copyright infringement"  rule violations if I used 2 or more of the same words from the article.  That's just the way it seems to work.
 So no link , no problem. I'm just discussing the facts from the news sources.

Use Google and find then the same way I do.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 15, 2016, 07:13:19 PM
msmobyone, 
Perhaps you should re-read your link and do it with the understanding that the road bridge and the railroad bridge is the same bridge not separate ones.  It has a serious design flaw.

Bottom line is that there will be no bridge for another year. (or more)

 I never said that it was delayed for lack of funds. Other funding for Crimea was delayed for a year as per the UNIAN article.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 12:31:06 AM
msmobyone,
 I have previously stated that I will not post links here any more. I'm very sure that I'd get nailed for "copyright infringement"  rule violations if I used 2 or more of the same words from the article.  That's just the way it seems to work.
 So no link , no problem. I'm just discussing the facts from the news sources.

Use Google and find then the same way I do.

Do you feel that excuses your inaccurately portraying the situation ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 01:32:37 AM
The only problem is that you assumed that there were two bridges instead of one built to handle both rail and road traffic.  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 02:10:57 AM
The only problem is that you assumed that there were two bridges instead of one built to handle both rail and road traffic.

 :D

I assumed nothing - there are two bridges

I know 'coz this ad gets played to death...48 seconds should set yourself beating your own head with your very own 'cluebat'...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABxayaFHr8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABxayaFHr8)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 16, 2016, 06:05:27 AM
msmobyone,
 I have previously stated that I will not post links here any more. I'm very sure that I'd get nailed for "copyright infringement"  rule violations if I used 2 or more of the same words from the article.  That's just the way it seems to work.
 So no link , no problem. I'm just discussing the facts from the news sources.

Use Google and find then the same way I do.
Obviously you are full of it regarding links and your 'inability' to use them here.   Through a link, msmobyone has provided evidence that you are making things up, which is normally the case. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 06:47:16 AM
Obviously you are full of it regarding links and your 'inability' to use them here.   Through a link, msmobyone has provided evidence that you are making things up, which is normally the case. 


Fathertime!

FT,

I was not rubbing AKM's nose in it - just seeking to ensure all members knew the facts ... My reaction was sl. OTT - when he used the 'cluebat - avoiding the fact he had already posted 'bollox' about the state of construction - only to compound it with another howler about the design..

I do not want his mistake to be used for the likes of you to 'join in'... IMHO for a guy who has never been to these parts - you often post  'clueless ' -I just ignore you, mostly ..




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 16, 2016, 07:02:19 AM
FT,

I was not rubbing AKM's nose in it - just seeking to ensure all members knew the facts ... My reaction was sl. OTT - when he used the 'cluebat - avoiding the fact he had already posted 'bollox' about the state of construction - only to compound it with another howler about the design..

I do not want his mistake to be used for the likes of you to 'join in'... IMHO for a guy who has never been to these parts - you often post  'clueless ' -I just ignore you, mostly ..
Believe me, I think you are often full of crap, so don't worry about 'joining in'!  In this particular case, you provided a link, and Mr "Cluebat" used a worn out excuse to not back his comment up.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 08:41:51 AM
We'll just have to wait and see who's right. Simple?   :cluebat:

 Based from the news images that I've seen and your cartoon.. it may be interesting...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 09:06:33 AM
We'll just have to wait and see who's right. Simple?   :cluebat:

AKMike



You are just - simply - wrong - on two counts -

1/ the construction has not 'stopped' ...
2/ it's TWO bridges.. the only ASSuming was your inability to check..

Google owns youtube and we can clearly see - if you actually bothered to search - it must have been 'selectively'.




Now, it - indeed - seems necessary to 'rub your nose in it'...

This is Ukrainian news confirming the design...

http://www.unian.info/economics/1095399-russia-approves-blueprints-for-crimean-bridge-across-kerch-strait.html (http://www.unian.info/economics/1095399-russia-approves-blueprints-for-crimean-bridge-across-kerch-strait.html)

Are you one of those people who delight in arguing that the earth is flat ?






Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 09:15:47 AM
From your link," According to the approved blueprints, the bridge crossing consists of parallel road and rail sections."

 Notice that it says THE bridge.. Singular not plural.

 It doesn't say the bridges!  It's a single bridges with dual rail and road use like I said.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 09:30:38 AM
I noticed that I had a typo in the last sentence of my prior post. I meant bridge.. Singular and I am talking about the main span over the Kerch Strait not the access bridges.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 09:36:50 AM
From your link," According to the approved blueprints, the bridge crossing consists of parallel road and rail sections."

 Notice that it says THE bridge.. Singular not plural.

 It doesn't say the bridges!  It's a single bridges with dual rail and road use like I said.

OK..you are now taking obtuse to a new level..

it seems the coup de grace is necessary..

http://uatoday.tv/society/reuters-russia-pushes-back-putin-s-bridge-to-annexed-crimea-by-a-year-630176.html (http://uatoday.tv/society/reuters-russia-pushes-back-putin-s-bridge-to-annexed-crimea-by-a-year-630176.html)


1/ construction 'stopped' - wrong- ''Construction of the road part is on schedule, but Reuters has learned that the rail segment deadline has been put back by a year''

2/ the design- AKMike said ''you assumed that there were two bridges instead of one built to handle both rail and road traffic.''

FACT..My 'assumption' was bang on ..''Extending 19 km (11.8 miles), the project, which will be two separate parallel structures ..''   

However, you try to spin it..you got busted - that you can't man up and admit it. is illuminating and hardly flattering..







Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 16, 2016, 10:03:09 AM
:D

I assumed nothing - there are two bridges

I know 'coz this ad gets played to death...48 seconds should set yourself beating your own head with your very own 'cluebat'...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABxayaFHr8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABxayaFHr8)

Uh, no. There are not two bridges...or one bridge for that matter. There are no bridges, rail, vehicular or otherwise.

What there is, according to images taken in the last few days, looks something like this...

(http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20160413&t=2&i=1132448773&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=192&pl=155&sq=&r=LYNXNPEC3C0M0)

What you've linked is a conceptualization.

These CG'd pie in the ski vids are effective propaganda (there's a number of them on line) for mollifying the Russian sheeple, however, that's all they are - conceptualized propaganda.

None of it actually exists and probably never will. Case in point...

Confederation Bridge

(http://greatstructures.info/cb1.jpg)

Construction time 40 months. Built by hundreds of professional engineers, trades people and world class bridge construction experts/consultants. Length 12.9km guardrail to guardrail.

Putin's egotistical imagination and propaganda exercise...

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nLcxsXCbRdY/hqdefault.jpg)

Putin's must build by construction time - 31 months. To be built by Putin's former Judo partner who is unable to (because of sanctions) hire international sub contractors with the bridge construction expertise and engineering skills to build  or consult on said project in the first place. Length (estimated) 19kms.

...Not gonna happen.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2016, 10:39:26 AM
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nLcxsXCbRdY/hqdefault.jpg)


Is that photo representative of how they plan on building the bridge? To build a tower crane at every column? I don't know if there are enough tower cranes in Russia to place at every column and to do so is an inefficient way to build that type of bridge. It's going to take them a very long time to complete. Video below is the right way to build that type of bridge. Start at the 2:50 mark to understand why no tower cranes are needed to build the bridge. Can Russian engineers be clueless? I doubt it. The photo is probably propaganda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47V6-x0YAE
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 10:49:57 AM
Uh, no. There are not two bridges...or one bridge for that matter. There are no bridges, rail, vehicular or otherwise.


Now, I am no fan of Putin - but suggesting  construction hasn't started just isn't correct.... There are temporary bridges - under construction ...  I've seen them with my own eyes - from 7000m up




What you've linked is a conceptualization.

No-one disputes that.. It was illustrating that there will be two bridges.

These CG'd pie in the ski vids are effective propaganda (there's a number of them on line) for mollifying the Russian sheeple, however, that's all they are - conceptualized propaganda.

Brass - I've already pointed out that the vid I posted has been running on most RU tv channels ..Peak time ..Since before the new year ..

It is very effective at building up the 'pride factor'... and will also make VVP look like an idiot - if the project doesn't come to fruition. Most westerners do not comprehend the level of respect / pride Putin has managed to make most Russians feel - esp over  'regaining' Crimea.

When I was asked what advert was the most annoying I'd ever seen - I mentioned this one - asking'' aren't you bored of seeing it ?'' ...To be greeted by open-mouths, silence and incredulity... 

None of it actually exists and probably never will.


Putin's egotistical imagination and propaganda exercise...



...Not gonna happen.




I saw the images in a US newspaper of how Sochi has fallen into 'decay' post Olympics - showing the biggest stadium being 'dismantled' - when the fact is the roof is being adjusted to be open for the 2018 world cup.. I'm afraid the ruskies aren't the only ones that indulge in  propaganda... you are an unknowing 'victim'

I know Russia can't really afford it - Most nations hosting Olympics - and creating the infrastructure necessary -  never really make a profit ...I know that the Crimea link project has already had faction fights - but I'll wager anyone that it will get built ..

As I said, construction has started and if it doesn't happen - it will be Putin's folly
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 11:04:41 AM
Moby, have a look at Russia Insider, 1/7/17 titled , "Superb Virtual Presentation of Planned Crimea Bridge to Mainland"  This is what they've got on the books from what I've seen. And yes I know it's a cartoon also. But it's the most cost effective way to make a bridge of this size.

 Since they've said that there is a structural design problem a road bridge just cannot be built. The base structure is at fault and one can't be built without the other.   Think of a 2X4 tarpaper shack and building a skyscraper using that as a foundation. That is a similar yet exaggerated example of the base foundation needed to support the Kerch Bridge.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 16, 2016, 11:05:36 AM
Is that photo representative of how they plan on building the bridge? To build a tower crane at every column? I don't know if there are enough tower cranes in Russia to place at every column and to do so is an inefficient way to build that type of bridge. It's going to take them a very long time to complete. Video below is the right way to build that type of bridge. Start at the 2:50 mark to understand why no tower cranes are needed to build the bridge. Can Russian engineers be clueless? I doubt it. The photo is probably propaganda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47V6-x0YAE

I took that pic off the net, Billy. It's one of dozens conceptualized images of Putin's folly. Whether or not it's representative of how the Russians might actually attempt to build the bridge I have no idea. But yes, it is most certainly propaganda as we both know it would take almost as long to sink and build the pylons for overhead cranes as it would for the structure itself.

Great video and a good representation of how large spans could/would be built.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 11:11:40 AM
Brass the piers/pylons could easily be sunk and anchored by cranes mounted on barges also.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 11:12:40 AM
These damn ruskies.. their tv news from last night showed the very things I saw from the plane... How DO they project such stuff to fool my eyes ?

http://news.mail.ru/economics/25473928/ (http://news.mail.ru/economics/25473928/)

Once again - they are building temp. bridges to build the main ones..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
Moby, have a look at Russia Insider, 1/7/17 titled , "Superb Virtual Presentation of Planned Crimea Bridge to Mainland"  This is what they've got on the books from what I've seen. And yes I know it's a cartoon also. But it's the most cost effective way to make a bridge of this size.

 Since they've said that there is a structural design problem a road bridge just cannot be built. The base structure is at fault and one can't be built without the other.   Think of a 2X4 tarpaper shack and building a skyscraper using that as a foundation. That is a similar yet exaggerated example of the base foundation needed to support the Kerch Bridge.

AKMike,

the 'structural problem' is with the RAIL bridge.. the target date for completion of the ROAD bridge - yes  to remind you - two separate structures - is still scheduled for  18th  Dec 2108

This is your link http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/01/07/2260 (http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/01/07/2260)

You meant 7/1/15 - why can't you guys write dates, properly ?  ;D

This concept was not the final design that was 'approved' ... RI uses 'trusted' stringers who are allowed to post stuff that often turns out to be so much 'bollox' ...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 11:27:21 AM
Consider that the set of pylons on the right are temporary access to build the main bridge.

 Notice that they are at water level, hardly enough clearance for ship traffic IMHO. Kayaks or canoes maybe.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 11:31:03 AM

You meant 7/1/15 - why can't you guys write dates, properly ?  ;D

 I stand corrected! A typo on my part. I meant to write, 1/7/15..  Not 17  BTW, That's correct and  we drive on the right side of the road too.  ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 11:32:35 AM
Consider that the set of pylons on the right are temporary access to build the main bridge.

 Notice that they are at water level, hardly enough clearance for ship traffic IMHO. Kayaks or canoes maybe.

The bridge you see being constructed is the TEMP bridge - to make the big ones... If you watch the vid I posted you'll see a cruise liner [  :D ] heading under the raised section to allow access to shipping ...




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 11:35:48 AM
I stand corrected! A typo on my part. I meant to write, 1/7/15..  Not 17 

Naturally, you'll know I meant how you write the dates - the format ..not the typo..

  we drive on the right side of the road too.  ;D

So do the Russians and the Chinese - sometimes - how could this be allowed to happen ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 16, 2016, 11:40:41 AM

Now, I am no fan of Putin - but suggesting  construction hasn't started just isn't correct.... There are temporary bridges - under construction ...  I've seen them with my own eyes - from 7000m up

Yes there are. However, they are not the bridge. They are temporary construction spans to reach the construction site (apparently)...

..."Mainland Russia is one step closer to a direct link to Crimea. Workers are building temporary bridges that will carry construction machinery and deliver materials to the Kerch bridge site. Eventually there will be three bridges, one is already working."...

http://www.rt.com/business/317368-russia-crimea-kerch-bridge/

If you've seen them then so be it. What I noted on one propaganda vid was so-called bridge construction which was clearly pipeline construction, lol.


No-one disputes that.. It was illustrating that there will be two bridges.

Brass - I've already pointed out that the vid I posted has been running on most RU tv channels ..Peak time ..Since before the new year ..

It is very effective at building up the 'pride factor'... and will also make VVP look like an idiot - if the project doesn't come to fruition. Most westerners do not comprehend the level of respect / pride Putin has managed to make most Russians feel - esp over  'regaining' Crimea.

When I was asked what advert was the most annoying I'd ever seen - I mentioned this one - asking'' aren't you bored of seeing it ?'' ...To be greeted by open-mouths, silence and incredulity... 

No doubt. I just don't think they have the expertise to build it (or if they do it'll be a death trap).

I saw the images in a US newspaper of how Sochi has fallen into 'decay' post Olympics - showing the biggest stadium being 'dismantled' - when the fact is the roof is being adjusted to be open for the 2018 world cup.. I'm afraid the ruskies aren't the only ones that indulge in  propaganda... you are an unknowing 'victim'

I know Russia can't really afford it - Most nations hosting Olympics - and creating the infrastructure necessary -  never really make a profit ...I know that the Crimea link project has already had faction fights - but I'll wager anyone that it will get built ..

As I said, construction has started and if it doesn't happen - it will be Putin's folly

I don't know about "unknowing" victim. I'm pretty good at identifying western based propaganda when I see it.  ;)

There is a difference between preparing a work site/project and actually building. I would take issue with "construction has started". I would say they're making a lot of noise over the fact they're dancing around preparations to begin construction.

But then I'm clearly not a fan of Putin either.

Brass


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 11:49:45 AM
Brass, if you're talking about the pictures of uncoated pipe stacked up, that's probably material for the pylons. I am surprised that it isn't epoxy coated before they drive it down.  It's the only way allowed here.  That extends the useful life of the structure many fold.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 16, 2016, 11:52:10 AM
Brass the piers/pylons could easily be sunk and anchored by cranes mounted on barges also.

True. But projects of this size take specialized equipment and this stuff isn't buy off the shelf and as far as I can gather sanctions aren't allowing the companies that specialize in this kind of construction to take the contract.

Billy would know more about that than I would but my understanding is you could count on two hands the companies world wide that have the equipment/expertise to actually attempt a project of this nature competently.

Moby thinks it's a 'feel good' project for the Russians. I think it'll never happen and if it does, without the right contractors, it'll probably fall into the ocean.

Brass
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on April 16, 2016, 11:52:28 AM
Come on guys:

Two bridges side by side.

One bridge with two different types of traffic.

Is the difference as important as discussing best size jeans for women? 

I like size 6 paired with 34 B.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on April 16, 2016, 12:00:41 PM
Brass, if you're talking about the pictures of uncoated pipe stacked up, that's probably material for the pylons. I am surprised that it isn't epoxy coated before they drive it down.  It's the only way allowed here.  That extends the useful life of the structure many fold.

Yes, it could have been material for the water dam surrounding the pylon construction as well but it certainly looks like pipeline to me ( been there, done that). :D

My guess would be Judo guy probably has no idea what epoxy is. ;D

Brass

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 16, 2016, 12:01:13 PM

No doubt. I just don't think they have the expertise to build it (or if they do it'll be a death trap).

Russians can and do make good product...the problem has  often been in corruption  / laziness re material specs used or maintenance.

I've seen beaten up old Ladas start in Siberian winters when fancy Beemers doors won't even open  :D

I don't know about "unknowing" victim. I'm pretty good at identifying western based propaganda when I see it.  ;)

Well, in this case the photo doesn't represent the progress... we can only surmise whether it is deliberate or not..

There is a difference between preparing a work site/project and actually building. I would take issue with "construction has started". I would say they're making a lot of noise over the fact they're dancing around preparations to begin construction.

3,500 guys building the temp bridges is hardly not constructing ...

How we feel about the bridges is based on our feelings about how this all came about..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 12:21:44 PM
There would be a huge amount of work that could go on for this project while design delay's stop construction of the bridge phase. That's a given, roads at each end, infrastructure to bring it all together ect.

Even with 3,500 worker digging with shovels it'll take a while.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 16, 2016, 05:32:51 PM
UAwire reports that another 38 Russian tourists were murdered near Avdiivka, Ukraine.  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2016, 08:22:56 PM
Brass, if you're talking about the pictures of uncoated pipe stacked up, that's probably material for the pylons. I am surprised that it isn't epoxy coated before they drive it down.  It's the only way allowed here.  That extends the useful life of the structure many fold.


I've never seen an epoxy coated steel pile. The epoxy would wear off by the time the pile gets driven into the earth. The steel piles I seen in the photo are supporting the temporary bridge and the ones protruding from the water are probably going to be used in the construction of the new bridge. Steel piles can be used to form a circular dam so water can be pumped out to create dry conditions for workers forming the pier base or the steel pile can be used as a tube that keeps earth from caving in after an auger extracts the earth inside the tube so cement can be poured to form a concrete pile. A steel cage made of epoxy coated rebar is dropped in the hole before the cement is poured. The steel tube is then removed after the cement cures. Another way of creating piles instead of using an auger is pounding precast concrete tubes into the earth.

The temporary bridge is necessary to deliver precast concrete sections to cranes if a specialized truss crane isn't used. It's more efficient to use the truss crane than build a temp bridge. As the truss crane builds the bridge, trucks can drive on the newly created portion to deliver precast parts and follow the crane all the way to the end.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on April 16, 2016, 11:28:50 PM
Gentlemen, be careful with using the Russia Insider for true and unbiased information. They are a ploy, designed at first glance to give the appearance that they question the Kremlin, but in the end they always turn a story to bow before their masters, their owners (despite all those pleas for donations to help tell the truth about Russia), as they are owned (lock, stock and barrel) and managed by RBTH, a subsidiary of RT.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on April 17, 2016, 03:52:47 AM
Obviously you are full of it regarding links and your 'inability' to use them here.   Through a link, msmobyone has provided evidence that you are making things up, which is normally the case. 


Fathertime!


FT,

I was not rubbing AKM's nose in it - just seeking to ensure all members knew the facts ... My reaction was sl. OTT - when he used the 'cluebat - avoiding the fact he had already posted 'bollox' about the state of construction - only to compound it with another howler about the design..

I do not want his mistake to be used for the likes of you to 'join in'... IMHO for a guy who has never been to these parts - you often post  'clueless ' -I just ignore you, mostly ..


Well didn't that backfired on FT big time...
 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 17, 2016, 07:13:19 AM


Well didn't that backfired on FT big time...
 :ROFL:


Only a strange bird could possibly think anything is 'big time' when having a discussion here....you qualify!  :ROFL:


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on April 17, 2016, 12:52:19 PM
Interesting article on Putin's popularity worldwide vs at home: http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-putin-approval-rating-russian-president-country-viewed-negatively-worldwide-us-2040242

Quote
The view of Russia was particularly negative in Europe, where a median of just 26 percent viewed the country favorably. In the U.S., the perception of Russia has shifted sharply. Nearly half of the United States viewed Russia favorably in 2011, but by 2015 that number had dropped to just 22 percent, Pew found.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 17, 2016, 05:42:12 PM
Interesting article on Putin's popularity worldwide vs at home: http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-putin-approval-rating-russian-president-country-viewed-negatively-worldwide-us-2040242

Yes, it's interesting, but it was published last August.  Have you seen any similar surveys more recently, mendy?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 17, 2016, 09:32:59 PM
Excuse the source.. and it is not clear if it refers to the August poll - but I'm guessing it's from December

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/12/23/vladimir-putin-rated-least-popular-leader-in-the-world/ (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/12/23/vladimir-putin-rated-least-popular-leader-in-the-world/)

Vladimir Putin rated least popular leader in the world
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on April 18, 2016, 01:18:40 AM
Yes, it's interesting, but it was published last August.  Have you seen any similar surveys more recently, mendy?


He has slipped in the most recent Levada poll--the most reliable, and independent. In Feb Mr. Putin was up in the mid 80s in several polls, but Levada did a year to year and found that by March 2016 he had dropped from 83% in 2015 to 73% (2016) in terms of whether Russians find him to be trustworthy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on April 18, 2016, 06:06:27 AM
UAwire reports that another 38 Russian tourists were murdered near Avdiivka, Ukraine.  :clapping:

Why applause?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 18, 2016, 06:21:42 AM
Why applause?

+1
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 18, 2016, 09:50:05 AM
Interfax reports the conviction of 2 Russian special forces soldiers in Kyiv to 14 years in prison. When they were first captured the admitted to being Russian soldiers, later recanted that finally they wanted to be declared POW's and therefore not to be tried.
 Note that this is the same case that their lawyer was murdered and the judge had his office fire bombed. Possibly to delay or frighten everyone involved in the trial away?

 Of course they should have claimed to be lost Russian tourists like others have. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: treadmilldude on April 18, 2016, 10:16:50 AM
UAwire reports that another 38 Russian tourists were murdered near Avdiivka, Ukraine.  :clapping:

I do not understand why you are happy that 38 Russian Tourists were murdered in Ukraine. I am missing something here.

Possibly "Russian Tourists" is code for Russian Soldiers ??  :(  Just a guess?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on April 18, 2016, 10:22:39 AM
I do not understand why you are happy that 38 Russian Tourists were murdered in Ukraine. I am missing something here.

Possibly "Russian Tourists" is code for Russian Soldiers ??  :(  Just a guess?

Yes, Putin claims that all those Russian soldiers killed in the invasion of Ukraine were actually Russian tourists, or Russian soldiers who got lost because they didn't know where the actual border boundary was.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: treadmilldude on April 18, 2016, 10:33:28 AM
OK, so obviously AKMike's post was tongue-in-cheek and his own words when he stated ""UAwire reports that another 38 Russian tourists were murdered"" because, as I understand, UAWire is a pro-Ukraine publication, and as such, they would certainly not call the 38 killed "tourists", but rather, call them as they actually are - 38 Russian "soldiers" ?

Yeah, I am not the most up-to-date on the war in Ukraine although I do try to follow it nearly every day. I follow the economic situation in the FSU countries a lot more closely than the actual war, as the amount of misinformation about the war out there is actually insulting to me. I never know if what I am reading is the truth or some variation of the truth.

I think men like AKMike have extra motivation to stay current on the war situation in Ukraine, as they are married to Ukrainian women.

ML, I just noticed, your FSU Wife is from Ukraine. Do you have a trip report here on RWD? If so, I would love to read it, hopefully I'll learn a lot from your trip report.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 18, 2016, 11:05:18 AM
Yeah sorry about that Treadmilldude. It is meant as a bit of a joke since other Russian invaders, Soldiers Errr invaders claimed to be lost tourists who just happened to be dressed in Cammies and carrying automatic rifles.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 18, 2016, 11:07:11 AM
AK Mike,

It is a great tragedy that anyone loses their lives in war.   I am against the Russian incursion into Ukraine.  My record is fairly well known on here.  However, many of those kids that the Russians are sending over to fight the battles for Mother Russia should not be dying, nor should their Ukrainian counterparts.  I lay the blame for this at the feet of the Russian government. 

BUT, that doesn't mean that I don't grieve for the families who lost their sons, husbands and fathers.  I would never rejoice in someone's death.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 18, 2016, 11:14:11 AM
I understand that Jone and mainly I agree. 
BUT IMO every Russian sent home with toe tags is another potential Ukrainian soldier or civilian that lives.  War isn't pretty or nice. I tend to root for the underdog that has been invaded in cases like this.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 18, 2016, 11:14:19 AM
Interesting article on Putin's popularity worldwide vs at home: http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-putin-approval-rating-russian-president-country-viewed-negatively-worldwide-us-2040242 (http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-putin-approval-rating-russian-president-country-viewed-negatively-worldwide-us-2040242)


I just read this book review this morning. Very interesting.



Russia’s Wily Men and Women
Russians hold views that seem impossible to reconcile. Students at a reputable school offer a curious mix of heroes: Stalin and Steve Jobs.


Quote
Perhaps most telling is Alexander, who lives in a village five hours from the city. He admires Mr. Putin and the system the president has built, even as he complains that corruption is rife, governance is poor, and the local economy is held back by an overbearing and rapacious state. Alexander’s criticisms mirror those of the citizens in the book who consider themselves dissidents and activists, though Alexander would never consider himself either one. “He is proud of Putin,” Ms. Garrels writes, “and between him and those who dread their country’s current course, there is an unbridgeable divide.”


http://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-wily-men-and-women-1460934476 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-wily-men-and-women-1460934476)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: treadmilldude on April 18, 2016, 11:34:16 AM
AKMike, I just noticed on your profile description that your Wife is Ukrainian, and you have been married to her for more than 10 years. First of all congratulations, that is a wonderful accomplishment and I am so happy for you and her both. God Bless both of you and I wish you two many more happy years together.

I am not even sure if RWD has been around for more than 10 years, so I have no idea if you have a trip report from way back when you met your Wife and were courting her. But do you have a trip report anywhere on this site?

I have been skimming ML's trip report, I have skimmed the first 8 pages. Lot of arguing in that trip report, everyone going at each other. I am a little bummed out because so far I have not seen any pictures in ML's trip report, and I love love love to see pictures in trip reports, especially when those pictures include lots of very pretty, attractive young FSU girls. (smile)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 18, 2016, 11:49:29 AM
Thank You TMD, that was kind of you.

 RWD was around much before I began my quest. I learned a bunch from others mistakes and managed to find a wonderful woman on my first trip. I don't recall if I posted much about the early days on here. Do a search looking for my oldest posts. I know I've got a  few pics shown in the photo area here. Perhaps ML does also?
 I've been lucky and persistent with this lady and now I'm reaping the rewards. She's of course done the same and more.  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 18, 2016, 12:10:01 PM
Interfax reports the conviction of 2 Russian special forces soldiers in Kyiv to 14 years in prison. When they were first captured the admitted to being Russian soldiers, later recanted that finally they wanted to be declared POW's and therefore not to be tried.
 Note that this is the same case that their lawyer was murdered and the judge had his office fire bombed. Possibly to delay or frighten everyone involved in the trial away?

 Of course they should have claimed to be lost Russian tourists like others have.


There's a good timeline about this currently being shown at medusa.io if anyone would like to see more.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 19, 2016, 10:02:46 AM

A fresh study by Russian Institute of Social Analysis and Prognostics, says make up more than 50% of an average citizens' monthly spending goes for food along with liquor and tobacco products.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 19, 2016, 05:49:19 PM

At the Warsaw meeting in July, NATO plans to offer Tbilisi and Kyiv a newly devised status of "associate partnership," as well as a closer cooperation in the Black Sea area. Any attempts of agreement between NATO and the former USSR republics will make Moscow nervous and even more unpredictable, says New Europe, an English language paper
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 19, 2016, 09:16:59 PM
A fresh study by Russian Institute of Social Analysis and Prognostics, says make up more than 50% of an average citizens' monthly spending goes for food along with liquor and tobacco products.

..and your point ?

How is this 'bad' news... ? it COULD mean housing costs are low ..

Have you checked the prices of ciggies/ booze  in Russia.. they'd have to be buying a lot to make up a sizeable proportion of income

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 19, 2016, 09:52:41 PM
It COULD mean that housing prices are down, but it still says that they are spending half their income for food, cigarettes and booze.

 I'm sure that you will attest that everything in Russia is peaches and cream. The streets are smooth and paved with gold. Everyone is flush with readily spendable cash and so forth.

 If you put lipstick on a pig it's still a pig.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 19, 2016, 10:18:06 PM
It COULD mean that housing prices are down, but it still says that they are spending half their income for food, cigarettes and booze.

 I'm sure that you will attest that everything in Russia is peaches and cream. The streets are smooth and paved with gold. Everyone is flush with readily spendable cash and so forth.

 If you put lipstick on a pig it's still a pig.

Not at all - this time is called the 'crisis'

But - that's mostly down to the oil price and the govt. spending on things they cannot afford... but MOST people think this is due to western sanctions - which is having the effect on people letting the govt. off the hook.


 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 19, 2016, 10:29:53 PM
There was nothing mentioned about sanctions nor a crisis. It simply stated that there's about 50% of take home wages getting spent on normal comsumables.

 An amount that is VERY high compared other countries.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 19, 2016, 11:02:54 PM
There was nothing mentioned about sanctions nor a crisis.


http://uatoday.tv/business/russians-spend-half-of-their-income-on-food-633932.html (http://uatoday.tv/business/russians-spend-half-of-their-income-on-food-633932.html)

Where I found your data - both are mentioned....

 
An amount that is VERY high compared other countries.

Upon which countries do you base you assertion ?

Might I suggest you check neighbouring nations...



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 19, 2016, 11:09:02 PM
AKMike

I prefer to check stats - when there are other nations data to compare..

http://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm (http://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm)

Unfortunately, this data is 2 years old - but it certainly shows a slowdown - WAY before the physical 'away games' started .. but Russia was on a par with Ireland and Estonia, then .... hardly third world poor
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 19, 2016, 11:27:08 PM

http://uatoday.tv/business/russians-spend-half-of-their-income-on-food-633932.html (http://uatoday.tv/business/russians-spend-half-of-their-income-on-food-633932.html)

Where I found your data - both are mentioned....

That link mentions that I didn't.

 
Upon which countries do you base you assertion ?

Might I suggest you check neighbouring nations...

I don't recall saying which countries either. Stop trying to twist my words around to suit your needs.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 19, 2016, 11:40:03 PM
I doubt that this will makes sense to you but some of their findings I don't necessarily agree with. I did find it interesting about the amount spent of food and such so I shared that.

 That's all I said too.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 20, 2016, 02:51:05 AM
A fresh study by Russian Institute of Social Analysis and Prognostics, says make up more than 50% of an average citizens' monthly spending goes for food along with liquor and tobacco products.
Here in many areas of the states it would take around 100% of middle earners income to buy a house...but food can be cheap...especially at the 99cent store.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 20, 2016, 05:07:20 AM
stop trying to twist...to suit your needs ..

My agenda is simply to counter folk who post misleading stuff to promote THEIR agenda ... that applies to anyone.

I doubt that this will makes sense to you but some of their findings I don't necessarily agree with.


Based on what premise?

I did find it interesting about the amount spent of food and such so I shared that.

 That's all I said too.  :rolleyes:

I think you can quit with the 'innocence' ... If you were reg. posting stuff that reflected something negative about Ukraine - that would be believable.

Again, I blame the current Russian leadership for much of the mess ... but I try to remain objective and certainly don't celebrate the loss of life...

If it needs explaining - I've lived in both sides of Ireland - been with ppl who were sad the IRA missed bombing John Major's cabinet meeting, Cyprus - were the ethnicities live apart and know Russia / Ukraine well ...ALL are lovely people - for whom the historical decisions of past / present leaders create problems.

I really believe we should let women be leader more often ...  ;D

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 20, 2016, 09:16:12 AM
And yet with all your blustering, the statement I said about the 50% of the household budget for food ect.  still stands intact..   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 20, 2016, 09:25:31 AM

Again, I blame the current Russian leadership for much of the mess ... but I try to remain objective and certainly don't celebrate the loss of life...


Duh!

I would happily send the entire Russian military to their graves if that was going to save one decent Ukrainian-- and most particularly--if those deaths is what it would take for the Russian people to understand THEIR culpability in the deaths of THOUSANDS of innocent Ukrainians
by their CHOOSING not face up to a war against innocent people being conducted by the Russian leaders.
I said before your pious comments are so far out of touch with reality and now you have the temerity to think you are on the high moral ground! :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 20, 2016, 10:03:15 AM
Meanwhile--

The cretin could have been helping his mother out-in Rostov  where she was murdered in her own home.
Where was he?

Donovorosilsya cock! Motorola's mother found shot to death ...

http://elise.com.ua/?p=188516#
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 20, 2016, 10:07:01 AM
Meanwhile-
Astronaut showed Kerch bridge from space


http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/astronavt-pokazal-kerchenskyj-most-yz-kosmosa/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 20, 2016, 10:56:53 AM
I said before your pious comments are so far out of touch with reality and now you have the temerity to think you are on the high moral ground! :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:




LMFAO


You would be the last person to make a statement like that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 20, 2016, 04:51:45 PM

The Moscow Times reports that Russia’s C.E.C. (Central Electoral Commission)  has ordered authorities to toss out results from Barvikha  voting.
Four candidates that belong to Alex Navalny’s Anti-Corruption Fund claimed voting violations and withdrew after the vote.
 They claim about 30% of the so called voters were bussed in from outside the town of Barvikha.

 That's surprising after the 128% voter turnout that happened in Crimea for the "annexation"  after the invasion was totally accepted without question..  :rolleyes:

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 20, 2016, 07:10:22 PM
Duh!

I would happily send the entire Russian military to their graves if that was going to save one decent Ukrainian--


Thankfully you have no power and never will.


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 20, 2016, 07:39:38 PM
And yet with all your blustering, the statement I said about the 50% of the household budget for food ect.  still stands intact..   :rolleyes:

 ;D

and it  is still  as  meaningless - I see far more homeless folk on the streets in UK cities- than in Russia





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 20, 2016, 07:52:15 PM
Ex. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright probably got to be on the top of the list for a polonium cocktail for remarks made about he Huilomeister.

Statements included, “smart but truly evil man.”, “a KGB officer, who wants to keep everything under control and believes that everyone conspires against Russia.”.

 And then she may have struck a raw nerve by stating," “Russia is a country that provokes and then feels insulted.”
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on April 20, 2016, 07:55:40 PM
Quote
moby ..and it  is still  as  meaningless

we have family in russia and for them it is not meaningless
they are now restricted on their buying power and travel etc
they are finding inflation on food difficult , of course there not complaining too much , as that is not there way

they just buckle down and ''endure '' but it certainly has gotten harder for the average family to balance there budget across most areas , , regardless of the reasons why

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 20, 2016, 08:00:07 PM
;D

and it  is still  as  meaningless - I see far more homeless folk on the streets in UK cities- than in Russia


  :rolleyes: Are you bragging or complaining?  :rolleyes:

It has a lot of meaning because this is what was happening in the 2008 meltdown. The same 50%..   If you were around then you'd know just how serious it is. Yet Putler insists on increasing the military with the people suffer.

 I have no idea how Russia will survive now that they have totally BANNED Turkish Eggplants. Oh Horrors  :o
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 20, 2016, 08:08:09 PM
we have family in russia and for them it is not meaningless
they are now restricted on their buying power and travel etc
they are finding inflation on food difficult , of course there not complaining too much , as that is not there way

they just buckle down and ''endure '' but it certainly has gotten harder for the average family to balance there budget across most areas , , regardless of the reasons why

SX

SX

I've been pointing out that inflation has been eating into incomes and pensions for years..

Most Russians are worse off  - the problem is - many are blaming the west for the 'crisis'.

That doesn't change the fact that a standalone stat - implying that Russians are spending a 'disproportionate' amount on food, ciggies and booze was meaningless...

If AKMike had produced a stat showing they are saving less, eating into their savings more and not taking foreign holidays -then he'shave been on to something..

The Sberbank - the biggest - does an annual survey of clients and these were trends.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 20, 2016, 08:17:49 PM
SX

I've been pointing out that inflation has been eating into incomes and pensions for years..

Most Russians are worse off  - the problem is - many are blaming the west for the 'crisis'.

That doesn't change the fact that a standalone stat - implying that Russians are spending a 'disproportionate' amount on food, ciggies and booze was meaningless...

If AKMike had produced a stat showing they are saving less, eating into their savings more and not taking foreign holidays -then he'shave been on to something..

The Sberbank - the biggest - does an annual survey of clients and these were trends.

Yeah, and if you'd be truthful about what Russians do with their indigents, then you might be on to something too.  Fewer beggars on the streets.  Laughable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 20, 2016, 08:27:18 PM
Quote from: akmike

  :rolleyes: Are you bragging or complaining?  :rolleyes:

I'm guessing you are complaining - as I'm the one pointing out your 'information' was meaningLESS -when taken in isolation.

The OECD stats I posted were far more informative and offered a comparison. I missed you posting data showing Ireland and Estonia were in a worse state that Russia


Quote from: akmike
It has a lot of meaning because this is what was happening in the 2008 meltdown. The same 50%..   If you were around then you'd know just how serious it is. Yet Putler insists on increasing the military with the people suffer.

Now you're being ridiculous - That blip was far shorter than the present 'crisis'. 3 quarters of recession followed by strong growth - a combination of war with Georgia and continued over-reliance on the price of oil...

Quote from: akmike
I have no idea how Russia will survive now that they have totally BANNED Turkish Eggplants. Oh Horrors  :o

I am living in the region most effected by the ban on trade with Turkey and we ate Baklazhan [ Aubergine], yesterday..

I guess some enterprising Russian importer is bringING Turkish produce via 'Abkhazia'..

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 20, 2016, 08:32:04 PM
Yeah, and if you'd be truthful about what Russians do with their indigents, then you might be on to something too.  Fewer beggars on the streets.  Laughable.

Jone,

Thanks

Once again you've shown an amazing capacity to 'put words in my mouth'...

I never mentioned 'beggars' ... you have.. I'd say there were more on the streets - yes...Mostly v.old ladies in underpasses.

I mentioned homeless - sleeping on the streets
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 20, 2016, 08:50:11 PM

Now you're being ridiculous - That blip was far shorter than the present 'crisis'. 3 quarters of recession followed by strong growth - a combination of war with Georgia and continued over-reliance on the price of oil...

 Right but it's still a 50% figure. This one is more severe due to Putler's actions.
I am living in the region most effected by the ban on trade with Turkey and we ate Baklazhan [ Aubergine], yesterday..

I guess some enterprising Russian importer is bringING Turkish produce via 'Abkhazia'..

The Turkish Eggplant ban was just announced today in Moscow, (It'll probably take several weeks for that information to reach you.) It goes into effect on the 25th.. Start hoarding now and corner the market! You alone could bump up the 50% for a few unlucky families!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 20, 2016, 09:18:06 PM
Ex. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright probably got to be on the top of the list for a polonium cocktail for remarks made about he Huilomeister.

Statements included, “smart but truly evil man.”, “a KGB officer, who wants to keep everything under control and believes that everyone conspires against Russia.”.

 And then she may have struck a raw nerve by stating," “Russia is a country that provokes and then feels insulted.”


You are superimposing your own perceived feelings onto Russia...it sounds like more of your ritualistic wishful thinking on your part...


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 20, 2016, 09:24:55 PM
The Turkish Eggplant ban was just announced today in Moscow, (It'll probably take several weeks for that information to reach you.) It goes into effect on the 25th.. Start hoarding now and corner the market! You alone could bump up the 50% for a few unlucky families!

AKMike

IF you were awake on Nov 30th 2015..

Russia Bans Imports of Fruits, Vegetables From Turkey

http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-bans-imports-of-fruits-vegetables-from-turkey-1448887371 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-bans-imports-of-fruits-vegetables-from-turkey-1448887371)

''Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said Moscow will stop importing Turkish vegetables and fruit, agencies reported. The embargo will come into effect in a few weeks from now and won’t include other goods such as clothes. The list of penalties, however, could be expanded later, he said.''



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 20, 2016, 09:41:37 PM
Yes,, I know that fruits and veggies were banned from many places and for some reason Moscow just added eggplant today. 4/20/16  Specifically Turkish Eggplant. 

Corner the market while you can!

Of course anyone could reasonably see this is part of the reason for the increase in the family food budget.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 20, 2016, 10:07:55 PM
Yes,, I know that fruits and veggies were banned from many places and for some reason Moscow just added eggplant today. 4/20/16  Specifically Turkish Eggplant. 


http://in-cyprus.com/temporary-russian-ban-of-turkish-aubergines/ (http://in-cyprus.com/temporary-russian-ban-of-turkish-aubergines/)

The ban on Aubergines  is 'temporary' and due to the '' continued deliveries of batches of aubergines contaminated with quarantine organisms,' Rossekhoznadzor said''...


Of course anyone could reasonably see this is part of the reason for the increase in the family food budget.

You are also suffering from 'Jone's disease' .... I missed suggesting otherwise re food price inflation

But thanks for the tip re Aubergines ... I just stocked up on jars of marinated Baklazhan from Georgian lady - who runs our local  fruit and veg shop
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 21, 2016, 10:58:59 AM
Yesterday, 4/20, Bloomberg put out a good article, " Crimean Bridge Measures the Span of Putin's Ambitions" about the Crimean Bridge with some of the back round information dating back to the Nazi's and about the current  players.

 Of interest too was a mention about it being Europe's longest COMBINED rail and car bridge.  But the video shows two bridges..  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 23, 2016, 09:04:38 PM
Yesterday, 4/20, Bloomberg put out a good article, " Crimean Bridge Measures the Span of Putin's Ambitions" about the Crimean Bridge with some of the back round information dating back to the Nazi's and about the current  players.

 Of interest too was a mention about it being Europe's longest COMBINED rail and car bridge.  But the video shows two bridges..  :rolleyes:

Not AGAIN.... :D Yes two bridges....one 'delayed' t'other 'on schedule' for Dec '18... A lot of cred -here in Russia -will dissipate if late.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 24, 2016, 12:55:09 AM
Bridge is singular.

 Bridges is plural..

 You must have been cutting class when they explained that, Eh?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 24, 2016, 01:20:58 AM
Bridge is singular.

 Bridges is plural..

 You must have been cutting class when they explained that, Eh?

I cannot help it if uninformed ppl refer to the bridges as 'bridge'..
You now know better..!

So, the casual reader can only draw one conclusion as to your continued use of the singular variant! ...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 25, 2016, 07:32:12 AM
The (MFA) Ministry of Foreign Affairs from Kazakhstan warns its citizens against visiting the annexed Crimea.
According to the MFA spokeman, Yerlan Idrisov, citizens should choose other resorts for summer holidays until the dispute between Russia and Ukraine is settled.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 26, 2016, 12:17:40 AM
Cant beat photos-ahh--that would be real photos-ahh- that would be from Ukraine !
This is the bridge-that isn't !! :) :wallbash:

The network showed how really is "grand" building Kerch bridge (photo)


http://patrioty.org.ua/blogs/terpyte-terpyl-u-merezhi-pokazaly-iak-naspravdi-vyhliadaie-hrandiozne-budivnytstvo-kerchenskoho-mosta-foto-116549.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 26, 2016, 01:52:46 AM
Cant beat photos-ahh--that would be real photos-ahh- that would be from Ukraine !
This is the bridge-that isn't !! :) :wallbash:

The network showed how really is "grand" building Kerch bridge (photo)


http://patrioty.org.ua/blogs/terpyte-terpyl-u-merezhi-pokazaly-iak-naspravdi-vyhliadaie-hrandiozne-budivnytstvo-kerchenskoho-mosta-foto-116549.html

I wish I'd taken a photo from the air ... It's a bit like 'Sochi has gone downhill after the winter Olympics'' - somewhat 'selective' photographs

I think December 2018 for the scheduled completion of the ROAD bridge is 'pushing it' - but Putin will be pushing for it's completion - lest he lose face.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2016, 09:45:51 AM
This is the bridge-that isn't !! :) :wallbash:

 Is there a comprehension problem running in your family? No one as said that there isn't a bridge project.

 No one has said that there isn't a bridge project going on. The articles state there's been a years set back due to design flaws. Funds for Krym have also been "delayed" for a year.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2016, 10:11:16 AM
The BBC is scheduled to air an hour long documentary on May 3 about the shooting down of MH17, the airliner with almost 300 civilians on board.

The Russian media and their minions are once again trying to muddy the waters by claiming that a Ukrainian fighter jet shot it down despite all evidence to the contrary. The Dutch Safety Board in their October 2015  report concluded that "that the plane was brought down by a Russian-made surface-to-air missile fired from an area that was mostly controlled by Russian-backed separatists at the time."

 Remember that the BUK anti aircraft missile system anything that untrained 'miners' from the region could begin to operate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2016, 10:20:40 AM
Moscow extends the war on small businesses.
Last round was the destruction of 104 kiosks of street vendors. Now the battle will be with anyone selling kibab.

 “We are removing shawarma from the streets. There will be no shawarma anymore,”.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 26, 2016, 10:29:59 AM
Is there a comprehension problem running in your family? No one as said that there isn't a bridge project.

Pls read the Ukrainian article ...again..It claims 'no work..no progress'..
No one has said that there isn't a bridge project going on. The articles state there's been a years set back due to design flaws. Funds for Krym have also been "delayed" for a year.

To be clear...once again..you know this, really.

1/ the RAILWAY bridge is running behind...because of 'the need to increase the strength of the bridge'

2/ WHilst funding for other major infrastructure projects have been put back for one year..'for economic reasons'...that does not include the Crimea road / rail link.

Triumphal, tabloid style headlines should be reserved for press unworthy of respect.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2016, 10:49:40 AM

1/ the RAILWAY bridge is running behind...because of 'the need to increase the strength of the bridge'

2/ Wilst funding for other major infrastructure projects have been put back for one year..'for economic reasons'...that does not include the Crimea road / rail link.


 And that's exactly what I've been pointing out.. Thanks for once again making my point. I said the bridge was delayed for design flaws. When images (NOT CARTOONS)  appear that there will be two separate bridges then we'll know for sure. Until then the media reports a bridge.. Singular.  They didn't say bridge project which could entail multiple bridges, they say bridge.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 26, 2016, 05:00:33 PM
Is there a comprehension problem running in your family? No one as said that there isn't a bridge project.

 No one has said that there isn't a bridge project going on. The articles state there's been a years set back due to design flaws. Funds for Krym have also been "delayed" for a year.

AK--my comment was in the context that it is not a bridge-yet.There is an attempt going on to construct A bridge.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2016, 06:37:30 PM
I understand JayH..  Until it's finished (IF or when) it's not much.

 If the reports of Russia's dire finances are correct.. the workers may walk 0out due to lack of paychecks. Reports of Russia's hired mercenaries in Donbas not getting paid have been coming to the news for some time.

 A SWIFT disconnect would really put them on the spot right about now. I read a report by someone thinking outside the box today and he was suggesting a snap drill on a disconnect and some practice at this before the real deal. They might be needing this before too long.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 26, 2016, 06:48:53 PM
And that's exactly what I've been pointing out..


You are confused.

I am commenting on the article JayH posted.Iit's somewhat disingenuos ..esp. concerning the progress of the temp bridge.


Your  'points'( re delayed funding / two bridges ) have been corrected ..

If I return to the UK via Moscow..and the weather is clear I will take some shots that you can judge ...rather than a video.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2016, 08:30:40 PM
None of my posts have been corrected. I just talk about the news online. The 50% of funds for food stuffs has NOTHING ton do with housing costs. It has everything to do with $pending 50%$ of their income for food  as talked about.

 The wannabe bridge still isn't a bridge.. It's not 2 bridges either.  You've shown cartoons as your proof of two. I showed another cartoon to show a combined bridge. ( From a Russian news source too,  after all everyone knows that Russians never lie..   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 26, 2016, 09:08:04 PM
None of my posts have been corrected.


Large guffaw from the SE corner of the Black Sea...

I just talk about the news online.

..and I pointed out where your and JayH's news was akin to negative propaganda...based on being incorrect..to the point of dishonesty.


The 50% of funds for food stuffs has NOTHING ton do with housing costs. It has everything to do with $pending 50%$ of their income for food  as talked about.

Food? We are discussing the bridges..kindly do not deflect.

The wannabe bridge still isn't a bridge.. It's not 2 bridges either.  You've shown cartoons as your proof of two. I showed another cartoon to show a combined bridge. ( From a Russian news source too,  after all everyone knows that Russians never lie..   :rolleyes:

Sighs..

1/ so we agree..there IS on ongoing construction? JayH's 'news' link suggests otherwise.

2/ it would be stupid to constantly show 140 plus million ppl a CGI video of how the bridges will be ..and for it NOT to happen. 

Again, I see enough RU tv to see how the population get to have a 'different perspective'. But I do not question what I have seen with my own eyes.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 26, 2016, 09:20:48 PM

Large guffaw from the SE corner of the Black Sea...

..and I pointed out where your and JayH's news was akin to negative propaganda...based on being incorrect..to the point of dishonesty.



1/ so we agree..there IS on ongoing construction? JayH's 'news' link suggests otherwise.



Ahh-- dishonesty- something I understand you know something about?
Exactly whose dishonesty are you alleging-- me for posting a link? The author? Or yours for repeatedly stating there are 2 bridges when all the evidence points to one?

My link-- clearly shows ongoing construction-I posted it as it has photos for all to see !!

BTW--  I have seen recent satellite photos far more credible than anything you can offer.

What they do  have-- a pier at either end!! And some pylons  !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2016, 10:44:46 PM
Watching only RUTV will give one a kremlin slated view..  :rolleyes:  Of course there also the Stockholm Syndrome to consider since you're way behind on real news.  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 26, 2016, 10:52:57 PM
Ahh-- dishonesty- something I understand you know something about?

You heard it from a reliable source ?..Pls 'spill' ..  I expect you are looking to deflect .. but carry on ...

Exactly whose dishonesty are you alleging-- me for posting a link? The author? Or yours for repeatedly stating there are 2 bridges when all the evidence points to one?

You CAN read English, JayH - it should be clear I'm 'busting' the link you posted...

Also, as you are inattentive - the 'plan' is to build a temporary bridge - which I have seem with my own eyes under  construction- to allow the construction of the permanent two.


My link-- clearly shows ongoing construction-I posted it as it has photos for all to see !!

It is from Kerch and suggested 'no activity' ... disingenuous..


BTW--  I have seen recent satellite photos far more credible than anything you can offer.

What they do  have-- a pier at either end!! And some pylons  !!

My dear chap - I am no fan of Putin - and he is putting his reputation with Russians and the world - on the line, here - but my eyeballs satisfy my 'doubts' as to progress.

You want him to fail - sure ... but please - don't let your wishes get in the way of fact.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 26, 2016, 10:58:29 PM
Watching only RUTV will give one a kremlin slated view..  :rolleyes:  Of course there also the Stockholm Syndrome to consider since you're way behind on real news.  :crackwhip:

Hmm, you do realise I have a UK BBC feed in Russia ? ... The IPTV TV we get in Russia has BBC World, Euronews, DW,CNN, FOX news .....

The issue is that most Russians choose to watch the news -oft followed by an 'opinion' - on the most popular channels  - which are either owned by or run by Kremlin cronies.

You're becoming somewhat daft in your attempts to deflect from your supporting inaccurate news - the thing we both - surely  - detest...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 26, 2016, 11:02:15 PM
Stop acting like a pillock.  :crackwhip:

 You're sticking up for Russia at almost every point. You're fooling only yourself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on April 26, 2016, 11:34:23 PM
Quote
2/ it would be stupid to constantly show 140 plus million ppl a CGI video of how the bridges will be ..and for it NOT to happen. 

not neccesarily  :D the putin dictator has done this with all other information & it has worked with very good  results on the population , crimea is a prime example

Quote
I am no fan of Putin - and he is putting his reputation with Russians and the world - on the line, here
his reputation for honesty is worthless  ;D ;D ;D, regardless if its with russians or the rest of the world
the man has nothing to be proud of in reality , history will judge him for who he is , regardless of his propoganda bs

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 26, 2016, 11:40:20 PM
Stop acting like a pillock.  :crackwhip:

 You're sticking up for Russia at almost every point. You're fooling only yourself.

No, I'm pointing out what I've seen and the plans for bridges.

I dislike distortion / misrepresentation - full stop.

A 'pillock' in my eyes - is someone who accepts all he wants to see / read.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 27, 2016, 12:05:18 AM
You heard it from a reliable source ?..Pls 'spill' ..  I expect you are looking to deflect .. but carry on ...

You CAN read English, JayH - it should be clear I'm 'busting' the link you posted...

Also, as you are inattentive - the 'plan' is to build a temporary bridge - which I have seem with my own eyes under  construction- to allow the construction of the permanent two.

It is from Kerch and suggested 'no activity' ... disingenuous..

My dear chap - I am no fan of Putin - and he is putting his reputation with Russians and the world - on the line, here - but my eyeballs satisfy my 'doubts' as to progress.
.

Anyone see the irony here-- Moby  disputes a link showing photos-- by showing a link to artists impression of what THE BRIDGE will look like -from a Kremlin source !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 27, 2016, 12:23:39 AM
Anyone see the irony here-- Moby  disputes a link showing photos-- by showing a link to artists impression of what THE BRIDGE will look like -from a Kremlin source !!

Nice deflection - you mentioned my 'dishonesty' - please enlighten us - as I have never met you, before.

Are you suggesting what I am seeing / have seen - the construction under way -  with my own eyes is 'made up' ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 27, 2016, 04:53:27 PM
The award to Zhirinovsky is important for another reason. His inclusion in his “Fatherland’s” political pantheon suggests that Russian political culture and geopolitical thinking are perfectly compatible with, and perhaps even supportive of, his extremist views. Zhirinovsky’s exaltation may mean that imperialism, illiberalism, and authoritarianism, if not downright fascism, are central to Russia’s perceptions of itself and its place in the world.

Putin Celebrates Unrepentant Fascist Zhirinovsky

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.stfi.re/blog/alexander-j-motyl/putin-celebrates-unrepentant-fascist-zhirinovsky?sf=olzylz
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 27, 2016, 08:16:26 PM
The award to Zhirinovsky is important for another reason. His inclusion in his “Fatherland’s” political pantheon suggests that Russian political culture and geopolitical thinking are perfectly compatible with, and perhaps even supportive of, his extremist views. Zhirinovsky’s exaltation may mean that imperialism, illiberalism, and authoritarianism, if not downright fascism, are central to Russia’s perceptions of itself and its place in the world.





'There is no such thing as Russian fascism. You won't find a single Russian who considers Russians to be a superior race and who advocate expulsion of aliens.'
source: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/v/vladimirzh596437.html

This is the same guy who proposed a dowry tax - for foreigners to pay - if marrying a Russian citizen and 'taking' them from Russia.


Like Patriots everywhere - they sound a little crazy from without. I often wonder why he changed his family name - it's as if his wasn't proud of his heritage....

''Zhirinovsky has long denied that there was any non-Russian blood in him, shrugging it off with the statement, “My mother is Russian, my father is a lawyer.” '

http://www.vice.com/read/the-best-of-vladimir-zhirinovsky-russias-craziest-politician (http://www.vice.com/read/the-best-of-vladimir-zhirinovsky-russias-craziest-politician)

My take..Putin being electorally savvy .... give an 'award' to a Patriot from another party and keep Zhirinovsky in his box..













Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on April 27, 2016, 11:57:47 PM
The bridge is not more complicated than the spaceport  8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcB-mJ3ipM8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcB-mJ3ipM8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 28, 2016, 09:01:30 AM
Yeah, and it only has 93 billion rubles worth of 'irregularities' with 6 in jail. Not to mention the time lag..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 28, 2016, 09:31:24 AM
Anyone see the irony here-- Moby  disputes a link showing photos-- by showing a link to artists impression of what THE BRIDGE will look like -from a Kremlin source !!

No 'irony' .. I have SEEN the construction - with my own eyes..  It's only the THIRD time I mentioned it ..

Like I said ..a XXXXXXX  in my eyes - is someone who accepts all he wants to see / read.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 28, 2016, 12:17:42 PM
Tell me Moby, can you get by for foodstuffs (food, ciggs, booze ect.)on 4700 rubles per month?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 28, 2016, 08:54:30 PM
Tell me Moby, can you get by for foodstuffs (food, ciggs, booze ect.)on 4700 rubles per month?

We couldn't... your point ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 28, 2016, 10:59:15 PM
Well, that's about 50% of the pension base rate for Russia. When and if they continue to get paid.. In Novosibirsk they simply got the statement that “due to underfunding.” they wouldn't get paid in January until cash flow was restored.

VTsIOM is a state run polling outfit that reported in December that Russian financial situation is either “bad” or “very bad” has increased by 22 percent in the last 2 years. The percentage of people claiming they “lack funds to buy food” has also increased to 22 percent.
19 million the highest in the last 10 years. It's expected to gain  this year to 21 million, 14% of Russia.

Yet the Huilomeister seems to have huge amounts to spend invading Ukraine, stealing Krym and then refusing to support it as promised and then try to build a bridge to maybe gain more access. And then there is the Syria mess that I won't bother going into.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 28, 2016, 11:57:28 PM
You might even be correct - all the money must be in Sochi today ... the train to the F1 track was standing room only ....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 08:29:17 AM
Russia threatens Sweden with military actions if they join NATO.
Lavrov wants all border states to be neutral.


Edited to add;

The Swedish Government stated,"Sweden can make its own decisions about defense and security. Stockholm demands that Moscow fully respects this sovereign right."

Lars Adaktusson, a member of the EU Parliament, also commented on the threats. "Lavrov's words clearly show why Sweden should join NATO."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on April 29, 2016, 09:36:54 AM
Russia threatens Sweden with military actions if they join NATO.
Lavrov wants all border states to be neutral.

And?.. anything happen since June last year you want to 'report' as current events?

If Mexico were to join an alliance with Russia, wouldn't you think the US would reposition its military forces to the southern border (the same thing RU 'threatened' to do if
Sweden joined nato)?

Really AK you are just all over the place and at least 9 months behind the ball.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 09:46:31 AM
Poland has once again refused to grant entry permits to a Russian motorcycle gang ' Night Wolves' that is closely linked to President Vladimir Putin.
 Night Wolves has supported the invasion of Krym and  it's members have fought in eastern Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 09:48:19 AM
Really AK you are just all over the place and at least 9 months behind the ball.

 That's fresh off the net BC. Do your own DD.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 09:56:22 AM
De-Russification in Tajikistan
 Tajikistan's  government has officially banned issuing of new identification documents and birth certificates ethnic Tajiks using Russified last names.

According to the new law, Tajik children whose parents have surnames from the Soviet era that end with 'ov' for men and 'ova' for women will instead be given documents that use traditional local suffixes -- "i," "zod," "zoda," "iyon," "far" or "pur."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 10:12:02 AM
The Moscow Times reports that consumer confidence fell to 63 points in the first quarter of 2016, the lowest level since records began in 2005.

  59% have to refrain from entertainment expenses as well as 62% put off the purchase of new clothes. And 52% percent switched to cheaper food products. 76% were forced to cut spending in the first quarter of the year.

Real wages shrank 9.5 percent in 2015. So far year, it continues with 3.9 percent in just the first quarter. 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 10:31:50 AM
Russian TASS says that over 50% of the Russian red salmon caviar sold is unsafe..

 Beware if your headed over there folks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 10:47:07 AM
Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation seems to be getting their dander up with the news that in addition to 3000 police, Aidar and Azov troops will be helping to keep Odesa quiet and help quell the pro-Russian disturbances expected.

 It's not going according to plans.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on April 29, 2016, 11:15:25 AM
That's fresh off the net BC. Do your own DD.

I did.

This is simple regurgitation of stories from 2015.

Oh well keep on cutting and pasting.. maybe you'll get a crown for it one day.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 11:16:58 AM
No you didn't because it's all over the net.   :rolleyes:

Lavrov is starting it up all over.,
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on April 29, 2016, 11:27:41 AM
No you didn't because it's all over the net.   :rolleyes:

Lavrov is starting it up all over.,

Yeah.. there are others like you that cut n paste when they find little else worth reporting.  It catches on like the flu.

Finland may have just published an assessment but that's about it. http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/31848248/finnish-report-highlights-russian-threat-of-nato-membership

But yeah Russia is ready to invade Sweden...  :popcorn:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 11:49:43 AM
Umm NO! Once again you're "incorrect".  :rolleyes: There is no copy and paste in my posts.

No one has said that they are ready to invade Sweden except you..  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on April 29, 2016, 12:00:46 PM
But yeah Russia is ready to invade Sweden...  :popcorn:

OMG . . . do they want to add some more blond and blue eyes to their genetic make-up ??

Or do they want to take over Volvo or Ericsson ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on April 29, 2016, 12:12:11 PM
Umm NO! Once again you're "incorrect".  :rolleyes: There is no copy and paste in my posts.


Really now....  compare your post below with http://www.rferl.org/content/tajikistan-russified-surnames-banned/27706350.html

Changing a few words here and there does not make it original in any way.  You could at least have the courtesy of naming the author and source.  At the very least it's plagiarism.  You even give yourself away with the double spaces you leave when you delete a word or two from the original source.  See the bold underlined parts and refer to the original article

De-Russification in Tajikistan
 Tajikistan's  government has officially banned issuing of new identification documents and birth certificates ethnic Tajiks using Russified last names.

According to the new law, Tajik children whose parents have surnames from the Soviet era that end with 'ov' for men and 'ova' for women will instead be given documents that use traditional local suffixes -- "i," "zod," "zoda," "iyon," "far" or "pur."

Tajikistan's  government has officially banned issuing of new identification documents and birth certificates ['for' missing] ethnic Tajiks using Russified last names.

vs the original below:

Tajik authorities haveofficially banned the issuance of new identification documents and birth certificates for ethnic Tajiks containing Russified surnames.

you could at least get your grammar straight.....

I could show the same for the rest of the article but I think my point is well made.

This whole post of yours is stolen and you are a thief.




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 12:18:47 PM
Copy and paste is word for word.  I do rephrase so I don't get in trouble here for copyright stuff. The basic facts are the same though.   I'd like to show the links, it's much easier but if I'd use 2 or more of the same words in a comment it's be tossed out.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 12:20:08 PM
OMG . . . do they want to add some more blond and blue eyes to their genetic make-up ??

Or do they want to take over Volvo or Ericsson ?

 :clapping: :clapping:   It'd beat LADA!  :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on April 29, 2016, 12:35:22 PM
Copy and paste is word for word.  I do rephrase so I don't get in trouble here for copyright stuff. The basic facts are the same though.   I'd like to show the links, it's much easier but if I'd use 2 or more of the same words in a comment it's be tossed out.

It's quite ok to copy and paste a few lines in a quote and provide the source to substantiate your own original written thoughts... but guess what.... you have very few if any and instead simply steal copyrighted material from elsewhere and post them here.  Changing a few words does not make such theft acceptable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 12:40:35 PM
I find it interesting that since you don't like the message that you attack the messenger.

 This thread is approaching 1/4 million views so someone must be interested in More Bad News for Russia.
 If you're not interested in the plight of folks in Russia or problems caused by Russia then avoid this thread. Simple enough?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 29, 2016, 01:28:25 PM
And?.. anything happen since June last year you want to 'report' as current events?

If Mexico were to join an alliance with Russia, wouldn't you think the US would reposition its military forces to the southern border (the same thing RU 'threatened' to do if
Sweden joined nato)?

Really AK you are just all over the place and at least 9 months behind the ball.


oh come on BC...silly AKmike just wants to help stir up bad sentiments regarding Russia...while ignoring that US has committed similar misdeeds and/or threats for decades if not longer.    now that it has come forth that he is plagiarizing, it must be excused because as long as it is anti-Russian it is ok to bend rules!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 01:30:20 PM
Deleted
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AnonMod on April 29, 2016, 01:34:45 PM
I find it interesting that since you don't like the message that you attack the messenger.

 This thread is approaching 1/4 million views so someone must be interested in More Bad News for Russia.
 If you're not interested in the plight of folks in Russia or problems caused by Russia then avoid this thread. Simple enough?

From the website from which the article was lifted:

Quote
When re-using RFE/RL content, we require that you credit RFE/RL by including:

     * a permanent link, placed before the text of the article, to the original article on www.rferl.org,

     * the following information with each article:
Copyright (c) 2015. RFE/RL, Inc. Reprinted with the permission of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, 1201 Connecticut Ave NW, Ste 400, Washington DC 20036.

The above is what BC is referring to.

Because you were posting endless links, with no original commentary, you were asked to provide YOUR thoughts on the links you were posting here. 

Most RWD members are not particularly interested in endless links.  This is a discussion forum.  The purpose of posting links is to generate discussion about the article.

I again refer you to the rules:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18830.0

This is not rocket science.  Nor is it open for discussion or interpretation.  I am repeating this for you once and for all.

1.  If you are lifting news from an article, a link is to be provided.

2.  You can quote a paragraph or two from the article, provided the terms of service from the link allows it, as some prohibit any quoting of their articles.

3.  You must describe the link in your own words.  Nothing elaborate is required.

Any argument or comment on this post will be deleted and if you really piss me off, further action against you will be undertaken.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 04:03:00 PM
Anonmod, please look at your Mod3 account for a message. You've got conflicting rules here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 29, 2016, 05:15:11 PM
the headline says it all . :)

CRIMEA RAPIDLY LEAD TO THE COLLAPSE OF RUSSIA - RUSSIAN ECONOMIST

http://newsonline24.com.ua/krym-stremitelno-vedet-rossiyu-k-kraxu-rossijskij-ekonomist
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 05:25:33 PM
Let's hope that Vladislav Inozemtsev is 110% right  and The totalitarian government fails just like it did in 1991. But spare the poor the agonies they went thru.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on April 29, 2016, 06:51:32 PM
the headline says it all . :)

CRIMEA RAPIDLY LEAD TO THE COLLAPSE OF RUSSIA - RUSSIAN ECONOMIST

http://newsonline24.com.ua/krym-stremitelno-vedet-rossiyu-k-kraxu-rossijskij-ekonomist (http://newsonline24.com.ua/krym-stremitelno-vedet-rossiyu-k-kraxu-rossijskij-ekonomist)


Don't know if you noticed but oil is getting pretty close to 50 a barrel again. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 07:30:35 PM
Another aggressive Russian SU-27 fighter jet buzzed an American RC-135 in international airspace over the Baltic and did a barrel roll over it. This is the second time this has been done recently as well as once over a US ship. Russia would flip out if a F22 buzzed one of their planes or ships.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/29/politics/russians-barrel-roll-air-force-plane/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 29, 2016, 08:08:31 PM
Another aggressive Russian SU-27 fighter jet buzzed an American RC-135 in international airspace over the Baltic and did a barrel roll over it. This is the second time this has been done recently as well as once over a US ship. Russia would flip out if a F22 buzzed one of their planes or ships.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/29/politics/russians-barrel-roll-air-force-plane/

1/ I wonder if such an occurrence would BE reported

2/ I didn't think F22's were supposed to be 'visible' - rather the idea was to 'eliminate' targets before they could fire back...

3/ Russia does ' flip out' if  NATO are in what they call their backyard - e.g. Black Sea - close to their Baltic Sea ports...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 08:12:40 PM
Just imagine that everything is clear and clean on the radar, a blue bird day on a Russian destroyer then a huge boom as a supersonic jet passes close by.

 It's sure to get their attention 

The Black Sea has International waters and I doubt that Russia would allow NATO ships in their waters,
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 29, 2016, 08:19:46 PM
Just imagine that everything is clear and clean on the radar, a blue bird day on a Russian destroyer then a huge boom as a supersonic jet passes close by.

 It's sure to get their attention 

The Black Sea has International waters and I doubt that Russia would allow NATO ships in their waters,

1/ The idea with stealth is you don't give the opposition clues on how to find it with dummy runs .......

2/ I wasn't suggesting NATO were entering territorial waters - merely the proximity
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 08:26:37 PM
#1. If you've got it flaunt it.

#2. The US as well as other NATO countries patrol the Black Sea as well as the Baltic and all other waters of the world.  They aren't in Russian waters.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 29, 2016, 08:41:00 PM
#1. If you've got it flaunt it.

Once again, I think you misunderstand the benefits of stealth and 'giving clues' with speedy passes would be better accomplished with older generation jets... not F22's

#2. The US as well as other NATO countries patrol the Black Sea as well as the Baltic and all other waters of the world.  They aren't in Russian waters.

Once again -I stated the Black Sea as an example of what Russia regards as her 'backyard'  - wiser readers would have noticed the inverted commas and pick-up I was quoting - meaning speaking from their perspective..

May be you weren't aware - but non Black Sea states are restricted in what warships they can send into the Black Sea, by time, tonnage, size of guns, etc.,

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-1936-montreux-convention-would-help-russia-ukraine-war-1582507 (http://www.ibtimes.com/how-1936-montreux-convention-would-help-russia-ukraine-war-1582507)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 29, 2016, 08:50:55 PM
I'm well aware of all those nuances. I'm ignoring them and restating the obvious just for you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 29, 2016, 08:56:09 PM
I'm well aware of all those nuances. I'm ignoring them and restating the obvious just for you.

If that was true - I wouldn't need to repeat myself - when you post 'daft' about

1/ using stealth fighters to 'mock attack' Russian ships

2/ the non transgression by either party of recognised waters....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on April 29, 2016, 11:59:38 PM
#1. If you've got it flaunt it.

#2. The US as well as other NATO countries patrol the Black Sea as well as the Baltic and all other waters of the world.  They aren't in Russian waters.

As to #1 yes, and both sides will do it and test the limits. 

As to #2 aside from the Black Sea restrictions Moby mentioned the US is increasingly using 'Freedom of Navigation' to assert presence in disputed waters.  I expect reactions from the countries involved will also over time increase.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/26/china-tops-us-list-of-countries-targeted-in-freedom-of-navigation-exercises

Quote
The US military carried out freedom of navigation operations against 13 countries in 2015, including several against China for what it views as excessive claims to maritime and airspace jurisdiction, the Pentagon has said.

Such tit for tat military actions have been going on for ages, largely unnoticed by the public.

Overall it reminds me too much of the Cold War days.. indeed getting a bit chilly lately.

Anyone notice that when economies tank, the first reactions is to build up armed forces?  Makes a bit of sense.. fuel is cheap, plenty of cheap labor with little else to do, the economy gets a little 'kick' and everyone gets to flex their muscles..  Sending navies and air forces across the planet ain't cheap, but with fuel prices so low it's a bargain nowadays so folks will take advantage.  Maybe that's why oil prices are perking up a bit? hehe

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2016, 12:19:23 AM
As to #1 yes, and both sides will do it and test the limits. 

As to #2 aside from the Black Sea restrictions Moby mentioned the US is increasingly using 'Freedom of Navigation' to assert presence in disputed waters.  I expect reactions from the countries involved will also over time increase.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/26/china-tops-us-list-of-countries-targeted-in-freedom-of-navigation-exercises

Such tit for tat military actions have been going on for ages, largely unnoticed by the public.

Overall it reminds me too much of the Cold War days.. indeed getting a bit chilly lately.

Anyone notice that when economies tank, the first reactions is to build up armed forces
?  Makes a bit of sense.. fuel is cheap, plenty of cheap labor with little else to do, the economy gets a little 'kick' and everyone gets to flex their muscles..  Sending navies and air forces across the planet ain't cheap, but with fuel prices so low it's a bargain nowadays so folks will take advantage.  Maybe that's why oil prices are perking up a bit? hehe

 A bit chilly lately?   You just noticed ?!!

Using wars as a diversion-- duh-- did anyone notice? Well yes--I wrote about it about 2 years ago  !!  Also provided many links of various very qualified writers  on exactly that topic!!   Of course-- like a few others-- you don't read links-no wonder you are about 2 years behind what is going on!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on April 30, 2016, 12:23:42 AM
I don't get the impression that BC is not 'aware' of the worsening situation..... In fact - I'd say his viewpoint was must cognisant and balanced.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2016, 12:24:20 AM
At last more help is coming for Ukraine.What it really needs is for US to stop talking-- and start doing. Multiple every Russian piece of aggression by 2  and call Putin's childish bluffing.Obama has made the attempt to pacify-- and been treated with contempt- now it is time to use the big sticks available.


US prepares to take a resonant bill on Ukraine, which could destroy Russia economically forever

http://www.dialog.ua/news/84771_1461964387

http://www.yahoo.com/news/us-congress-passes-russia-sanctions-arms-ukraine-054621335.html?ref=gs

http://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/2828
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2016, 12:29:23 AM
Poverty Russian villages is particularly evident in comparison with beautiful villages, which are in Ukrainian Transcarpathia.

"Special show for you to look like a healthy person of the village. Photos are taken from the window of the train, somewhere between Mukachevo and Uzhgorod. Once again - between modest Mukachevo and Uzhgorod, not on the highway connecting the capital of the empire pretentious, Moscow and St. Petersburg ", - says the blogger.



Russian and Ukrainian Village Village: the difference in living standards is shocking. picture story


http://obozrevatel.com/society/89503-rossijskie-derevni-i-ukrainskie-sela-raznitsa-urovnya-zhizni-shokiruet--fotoreportazh.htm
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2016, 12:33:35 AM
Despite all the bluster and bluffing of Russia( let alone the invented lies) the western countries are easing nothing--in fact-the talk is of increasing sanctions on Russia.

"Settling the crisis in the east of Ukraine is the primary goal for France. Together with Germany, we will continue to mediate the crisis between Ukraine and Russia in order to achieve progress in the implementation of the Minsk Agreements," the Ambassador of France said at the meeting of the UN Security Council.

"Our goal is to take back control of Ukraine, across the internationally recognized border, as well as to restore Ukrainian authority in Crimea. In this regard, our position, which is consistent with international law, will not change," Delattre added.
France demands that Ukrainian authority be restored in Crimea

http://uawire.org/news/france-demands-that-ukrainian-authority-be-restored-in-crimea
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on April 30, 2016, 01:59:14 AM
Jay,

Regarding your last three posts, which could have been easily condensed into one if you wouldn't insist on SHOUTING

First, allowing more arms to flow into UA will only escalate tensions in the region and not lead to a real solution.
I wouldn't expect UA to be able to pay for arms and doubt much if any credit will be given.   You can bet that RU will double down if US starts to arm UA.

Second, what's the point in the village post.  A drive through rural NC or West Virginia looks a lot worse than pictures in the article.  Yes all countries has eyesores..  Why aren't we beating up India?

Third, I highly doubt Obama will sign off on the bill.  Lets see what happens as further discourse may be for naught.

Overall the situation in UA is brought about by her weaknesses, mainly corruption that destroyed the country's finances and inability to properly govern without outside 'assistance'.. much of which in the past was borne by RU.  The West with words of bluster will not be able to fill the gap and without credit guarantees are not going to pour in money and assets which will mostly go to RU anyway in one form or another to repay billions of UA sovereign debt. 

This whole situation with Donetsk and Crimea is a direct result the inability of UA to straighten up her act and live up to it's deals with either the East or West.

Interesting though is that China seems to be playing a greater role in UA..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/07/24/hey-putin-have-you-seen-how-much-china-is-investing-in-ukraine/

Quote
Ukraine has become the largest corn exporter to China, surpassing the United States. This was surprising, as America has historically possessed a near-monopoly on corn exports to China. Ukraine’s increased role in providing food for China also extends beyond corn. Since the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea, Ukraine has increased its agricultural trade with China by 56 percent.

China knows the rules better in such games and seems to have a knack of basically trading their support for other countries natural resources, in the end becoming de-facto owners of anything worth owning.  Their investments in Africa are astounding but signs are there that in a friendly way they simply scrape off the icing for themselves leaving the population as destitute as it was before.

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/chinas-investments-in-africa-whats-the-real-story/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSbZ1wxV87c

Both well worth reading / watching.

Although China's economic 'boom' is tampered for the moment so is the rest of the world.  They will pick up again when other economies improve and the show goes on.

Russia, who seem to be more allied with China of course don't object as it lifts some of the UA financial burden without affecting their political power in the region.





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2016, 02:09:20 AM
It is called a headline--designed to prevent the sort of muddling post you just made.
What a confused way of thinking you have shown-no wonder you are so clueless.


This whole situation with Donetsk and Crimea is a direct result the inability of UA to straighten up her act and live up to it's deals with either the East or West.

Are you really that thick? No answer required-it is plain for all to see.
Like I said--there are 2 years of links here on forum to read to inform yourself.That is my "advice" to you  :)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on April 30, 2016, 02:24:13 AM
Are you really that thick? No answer required-it is plain for all to see.
Like I said--there are 2 years of links here on forum to read to inform yourself.That is my "advice" to you  :)

Jay,
Like you, I also am allowed to express my opinions here. 'muddling' or not is up to the readers here and not you alone.

As to your 'advice'.. thanks but no thanks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2016, 03:21:23 AM
Like others who excuse Putin & Russia you constantly want to overlook the reality--ie Russia is itself to blame for the ills faced by Russia.
You seem to think a few of us on the forum have made the problem!!
Facts are--many others are pointing out MORE BAD NEWS FOR RUSSIA!

Russia waiting for a disaster

Russia is in a deep hole, and if within the next year if Russia does not  get the sanctions withdrawn, the country will face a global catastrophe. The opinion expressed know by Lily Shevtsrva , well-known Russian political scientist . According to her, 60 percent of Russians are assured a year ago that the sanctions do not feel, now the number of such people has decreased significantly, while 40 percent live below the poverty line. Fewer people support Putin - even among the political elite, said Shevtsova. According to her, Putin has spoiled relations with the West, which is of great interest for the Russian elite. If sanctions  continue it will lead to a catastrophe in the economy, as well as to the absolute impoverishment of the Russian people. Putin's rating of 85 percent -.  is not true, and even he  does not  believe . The president and Kremlin certainly has other data about the mood of the Russians

Источник: http://replyua.net/news/putin/28653-shevcova-rossiyu-zhdet-katastrofa.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 30, 2016, 03:30:05 AM
And still more bad news-
73 percent of respondents said that if they had the opportunity to live in any country of the world, would have left Russia. And only 23 percent were patriots
73 percent of Russians do not want to live in their own country

http://elise.com.ua/?p=190272#hcq=XuINQJp
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on April 30, 2016, 03:39:11 PM
The US Congress is starting to tighten up and add sanctions for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The new legislation that was introduced yesterday and sponsored by both Dems. and Reps. shows support for Ukraine.

A new bill in the U.S. Congress would prevent the White House from lifting a raft of sanctions against Russia until Ukraine restores control over Crimea, which Moscow forcibly annexed in 2014, or settles the peninsula's status to Kyiv's satisfaction "We need to build on our sanctions regime against troublemakers in the Kremlin, while working to preserve transatlantic unity," Engel, the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said in a statement.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1335160-us-bill-links-russia-sanctions-relief-to-crimeas-return-to-ukraine-rfe-rl.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on April 30, 2016, 07:49:50 PM
This just in:


Jay insists on educating the whole world that Ukraine is Utopia


www.cananyonebemoredense.com



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 12:00:52 AM
Hardly, This thread show that Russia has some serious problems.

 Hence the name, " More Bad News for Russia".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 12:17:14 AM
The US Congress is starting to tighten up and add sanctions for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The new legislation that was introduced yesterday and sponsored by both Dems. and Reps. shows support for Ukraine.

A new bill in the U.S. Congress would prevent the White House from lifting a raft of sanctions against Russia until Ukraine restores control over Crimea, which Moscow forcibly annexed in 2014, or settles the peninsula's status to Kyiv's satisfaction "We need to build on our sanctions regime against troublemakers in the Kremlin, while working to preserve transatlantic unity," Engel, the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said in a statement.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1335160-us-bill-links-russia-sanctions-relief-to-crimeas-return-to-ukraine-rfe-rl.html

Short memory Jay?  Repeating yourself on the same page lol
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg429494#msg429494

The rest of us also know how to google..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 12:46:43 AM
In any case, I highly doubt Congress will become the new dictators of what will or will not happen in UA regardless of how many bills they can push through.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 01:14:16 AM
Russia, Putin Held in Low Regard around the World

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/08/05/russia-putin-held-in-low-regard-around-the-world/

What the article doesn't mention is that Russia is highly regarded in Vietnam, China and India.. representing a population that is probably greater than the rest of the countries polled together.

Over 2.5 billion... certainly a force to be reckoned with.

In the past these countries did not have much in the way of technology so weren't really considered more than 'cannon fodder' armies, but nowadays probably have more technology, raw resources and skilled workers than many many other countries.  Add Russia's energy and you have a perfectly staged power that simply cannot be beaten.

IMHO the Western World will have do better than threaten and bluster.   The UN is neutralized by veto power of China and Russia who are more closely tied than not.  Russia has also been much more active lately in India's energy sector.

Really, what do all the chest thumpers here think the US or EU for that matter can do against RU.. Start WWIII?

Get realistic folks.. UA will remain RU's back yard.  Better to start finding new, peaceful ways of getting along with these countries.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 01, 2016, 01:37:25 AM
Short memory Jay?  Repeating yourself on the same page lol
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg429494#msg429494

The rest of us also know how to google..

Errrrr-- No-

You are quoting AkMike post  and aiming at me? perhaps if you look at the time or relevant posts-- and give up the trolling attempts. You can see how ridiculous Muzh looks-- and now you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 01:42:56 AM
And still more bad news-
73 percent of respondents said that if they had the opportunity to live in any country of the world, would have left Russia. And only 23 percent were patriots
73 percent of Russians do not want to live in their own country

http://elise.com.ua/?p=190272#hcq=XuINQJp


6 charts showing how Russians see their country and the world

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/12/6-charts-showing-how-russians-see-their-country-and-the-world/

Top 3

Quote
Nearly three-quarters in Russia (73%) say that their economy is in bad shape.


Well heck... with the global economic slump and low oil prices, when one figures in RU's oil sector which is an overwhelming part of the economy, overall it's in line with sentiments across the planet.

Quote
Despite the negative economic mood in Russia, President Putin still receives overwhelming support from the public.

Kinda amazing isn't it?

Quote
Russians do not like the U.S. and other Western powers.

Sanctions and escalation at work..

Is funny how that 73% gets thrown around quite a bit..

13 Percent of Russians Want to Move Abroad – Poll

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/13-percent-of-russians-want-to-move-abroad--poll/530320.html

Are you sure you read your source correctly?  Maybe a native RU speaker could chip in and give a synopsis of what http://elise.com.ua/?p=190272#hcq=XuINQJp really says..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 01:45:24 AM
Errrrr-- No-

You are quoting AkMike post  and aiming at me? perhaps if you look at the time or relevant posts-- and give up the trolling attempts. You can see how ridiculous Muzh looks-- and now you.

Yeah, was my mistake but ok at least AK has been contributing a bit more in his last posts.  I do sorta get you guys confused with the big fonts and same storylines.

Trolling attempts? nahhhh  just responding in kind.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 01, 2016, 01:51:18 AM


Really, what do all the chest thumpers here think the US or EU for that matter can do against RU.. Start WWIII?

Get realistic folks.. UA will remain RU's back yard.  Better to start finding new, peaceful ways of getting along with these countries.

Now that sumarises your pathetic  attitude  and ignorance .

What countries do you attempt to include-it is Russia lashing out and behaving in a disgusting manner-- RUSSIA
Are you really such a simpleton that you think anyone  else is to blame-perhaps that answer is yes.
To answer part of your question-what can EU or US do against Russia--confront them now--before they get any crazier

While it has been said numerous times here previously--let me say some of it again-- as apparently  you do not read-let alone comprehend.

Help Ukraine maintain it's sovereign territory .  Ukraine is not Russia's "backyard"--it is another country and Russia has no business invading.

Thread title says what the thread is about-- and despite your attempts ( & others to silence some of us) the bad news is Russia's doing--self inflicted  .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 02:29:04 AM
Now that sumarises your pathetic  attitude  and ignorance .

What countries do you attempt to include-it is Russia lashing out and behaving in a disgusting manner-- RUSSIA
Are you really such a simpleton that you think anyone  else is to blame-perhaps that answer is yes.
To answer part of your question-what can EU or US do against Russia--confront them now--before they get any crazier

While it has been said numerous times here previously--let me say some of it again-- as apparently  you do not read-let alone comprehend.

Help Ukraine maintain it's sovereign territory .  Ukraine is not Russia's "backyard"--it is another country and Russia has no business invading.

Thread title says what the thread is about-- and despite your attempts ( & others to silence some of us) the bad news is Russia's doing--self inflicted  .

Maybe check out a bit of history..

America's Coup Machine: Destroying Democracy Since 1953
http://www.alternet.org/world/americas-coup-machine-destroying-democracy-1953

Tit for tat..  In many ways that's how things work.

Until someone else steps in to UA it will remain RU's de-facto back yard. Believe me if there was an easy way for the west to confront RU it would have been done by now.  Look at Georgia, RU's other 'back yard'... Now that was 2008 and everyone raised hell about that didn't they?  Whats the status quo today?  Was/is there a resolve to take back RU areas of Georgia?

http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/?fa=60945

Who’s Afraid of NATO Enlargement?

Quote
Georgia has done everything possible to meet the criteria for joining NATO. Apart from reforming its armed forces to a very high standard, the country has been actively engaged in several NATO missions. Yet for all that, NATO as a whole is opposed to admitting this country, which is strategically located between the Black Sea, Russia, Turkey, Armenia, and Azerbaijan.

The reason is that several NATO countries are not convinced that Georgia would add to NATO’s security, despite its strategic location. Bluntly, countries such as Germany and France but also Poland fear that Georgia might at one stage invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty, which obliges the allies to come to the defense of another ally under threat.

In other words, are actions of Russia really so unprecedented?  Considering history what do you find undue with RU's efforts to maintain control over their remaining strategic assets?  Surely you don't expect them or the US for that matter to simply watch from the grandstand as the west Nibbles away at their borders.

Yeah, call it pathetic and ignorant.. I'll define it as being realistic and understanding that there are two sides of every coin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 03:18:38 AM
Finland risks 'serious crisis' with Russia if it joins NATO: study

http://www.yahoo.com/news/finland-risks-serious-crisis-russia-joins-nato-study-185914855.html

Quote
Helsinki (AFP) - If Finland joined NATO it would provoke a "serious crisis" with neighbouring Russia, an expert report commissioned by the government warned on Friday.

Inversely to UA and Georgia badly wanting NATO membership, Finland will have to assess whether or not membership would be really worth it.  I don't see a 'win win' situation here at all for them and highly doubt Sweden does either.

Take RU's side of the coin..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO#/media/File:Map_of_NATO_chronological.gif

How could RU not consider NATO expansion a form of aggression.. after all who does NATO consider as potential 'enemies' requiring such expansion?  Did this expansion, especially since 1990 come about as a reaction to any aggressive moves by RU?  On the whole it looks more like defensive reaction rather than true aggression.

It's really quite logical and makes sense..  Just look at a map and consider how South Ossetia,  Abkhazia, Crimea, Donetsk are all very strategic locations from RU POV.

NATO expanded when RU was economically and politically 'down and out' now they are telling the world they are back in the game.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 01, 2016, 03:27:33 AM


Until someone else steps in to UA it will remain RU's de-facto back yard.


Who’s Afraid of NATO Enlargement?

  Considering history what do you find undue with RU's efforts to maintain control over their remaining strategic assets?

Yeah, call it pathetic and ignorant.. I'll define it as being realistic and understanding that there are two sides of every coin.

Ukraine is an independent country--NOT an asset of Russia. FULL STOP
The NATO enlargement argument is a furphy -- does not stand any test . It is an argument of convenience-basically BS.
Your appalling lack of understanding is pathetic and ignorant.
Basically-- you are saying it is ok for Russia to invade a sovereign country,kill and maim it's citizens,ignore every accepted norm of civilisation etc etc

btw--you post would be more appropriate  in another thread

eg What would a war between Russia vs USA look like
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 03:39:52 AM
Ukraine is an independent country--NOT an asset of Russia. FULL STOP
The NATO enlargement argument is a furphy -- does not stand any test . It is an argument of convenience-basically BS.
Your appalling lack of understanding is pathetic and ignorant.
Basically-- you are saying it is ok for Russia to invade a sovereign country,kill and maim it's citizens,ignore every accepted norm of civilisation etc etc

btw--you post would be more appropriate  in another thread

Ok I get it.. you simply do not like my responses here? I guess you'll just have to get over it.

Was Panama not a sovereign country?  Has the US never sent CIA folks 'elsewhere' to secretly assist and arm warring parties?  Has the US never attempted to depose heads of foreign governments?

I'm not saying all this is right.. but simply to put it all into a somewhat balanced perspective.

Ok so you want me to start a 'More good news for Russia' thread and leave you without a shade of contrast here?  hahahahaha.. now that's funny.

Come back with some substance and I'll listen...  after all this is a discussion board and not a podium.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 01, 2016, 06:34:02 AM
Errrrr-- No-

You are quoting AkMike post  and aiming at me? perhaps if you look at the time or relevant posts-- and give up the trolling attempts. You can see how ridiculous Muzh looks-- and now you.


with your angry outbursts, you are unable to see what a ridiculous pinata you have created of yourself....


Ok I get it.. you simply do not like my responses here? I guess you'll just have to get over it.

Was Panama not a sovereign country?  Has the US never sent CIA folks 'elsewhere' to secretly assist and arm warring parties?  Has the US never attempted to depose heads of foreign governments?

I'm not saying all this is right.. but simply to put it all into a so


as usual this inconvenient part of history is minimized and/or brushed under the carpet!


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 08:00:07 AM
Short memory Jay?  Repeating yourself on the same page lol
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg429494#msg429494

The rest of us also know how to google..

Wow! Are you confused.. JayH didn't post this last one.. Notice it says AkMike NOT JayH..
 I didn't see that it was already shown, my bad.  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 08:30:11 AM
Wow! Are you confused.. JayH didn't post this last one.. Notice it says AkMike NOT JayH..
 I didn't see that it was already shown, my bad.  :wallbash:

Yeah I admitted my mistake in a following post here:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg429586#msg429586
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on May 01, 2016, 08:50:26 AM
Finland will have to assess whether or not membership would be really worth it.  I don't see a 'win win' situation here at all for them and highly doubt Sweden does either.


More Swedes are favoring NATO than are against it and Russia issues out warning.

http://www.newsweek.com/russias-lavrov-warns-sweden-nato-membership-453890

How could RU not consider NATO expansion a form of aggression.. after all who does NATO consider as potential 'enemies' requiring such expansion?  Did this expansion, especially since 1990 come about as a reaction to any aggressive moves by RU?  On the whole it looks more like defensive reaction rather than true aggression.


Some see the glass half full and others see it half empty. There's aggression alright but it's Russia's aggression that pushes countries to want to join NATO. If Russia can show the world they are more stable and friendlier than NATO, they'll have nations wanting to do business with them more often.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 08:51:22 AM
Lithuania joined Poland once again in keeping the Russian motorcycle gang, 'Night Wolves' out the same as they did last year. And some were the same ones that did it last year.. What did they think had changed?  :cluebat:

http://uatoday.tv/politics/lithuania-denies-entry-to-pro-putin-bikers-with-soviet-symbols-641555.html

 Lavrov said that the countries of the Baltics ,Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania  and  have shown no "gratitude" to Russia for letting them 'leave in peace' after the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Lithuania is said to be the most anti-Kremlin.   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/lavrov-baltics-show-no-gratitude-for-moscow-letting-them-go/2016/04/29/f12cf072-0de8-11e6-bc53-db634ca94a2a_story.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 09:06:16 AM
Despite the Trilateral agreement for a full ceasefire over Easter there have been another 27 attacks on Ukrainian positions that included the use of the banned 120mm mortars. 1 UA soldier was killed and 7 wounded.

But on a brighter note Russian losses from recon groups totaled 8 KIA's, no mention of wounded terrorists.

In Odesa the expected May 2 riots might be just a touch smaller due to the addition of 1,000 UA National Guard. This should bring a total of 3K to police the scene of the May 2 burning of the Trade Union with pro-Russian's inside.

http://en.censor.net.ua/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 09:10:54 AM
The Russian economy is in a bad way, but Elvira Nabiullina has saved it from worse

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21696946-russian-economy-bad-way-elvira-nabiullina-has-saved-it

Quote
To maintain reserves when the oil price began to fall, Ms Nabiullina accelerated a plan to allow the rouble to float. It fell by 40% against the dollar in 2015 alone. Propping up the rouble would have been popular, since it would have preserved ordinary Russians’ purchasing power, but it would have meant burning through the country’s reserves again. Instead the CBR channelled dollars to sanction-hit banks and energy companies, to help them repay external debt. Reserves have also been used to finance the budget deficit. As oil prices recover, so the CBR is again accumulating reserves, with a view to hitting the $500 billion mark once again.

A good read.  With all the doom and gloom declared upthread there does seem to be a great amount of thought and actions going on in the background that are preventing collapse of the RU economy.  Yes some hardships result but even a modest recovery of oil and gas prices will even the keel.  In the medium to long term their economy might even recover more quickly than one might expect.

Of course there are news sources mainly in UA that will say it's game over, but reputable, more balanced and informed sources show a smart game.

Especially interesting the fact that they intentionally allowed the RUB to float instead of propping it up as they did in the past crisis and also allowing higher interest rates.  During the 2007/08 crisis the US did take steps to prop up the USD and almost 10 years later still debating whether or not the economy can bear higher interest.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/05/09/white-house-leads-effort-to-prop-up-dollar/

Quote
The Bush administration is leading the international effort to put a floor under the falling dollar.

The conventional wisdom holds that the Europeans, worried that the mighty euro is making their companies less competitive, prodded Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and other group of seven finance ministers last month into signaling their joint disapproval of the dollar’s plunge. Canada has also been troubled by the strong loonie.

But a senior U.S. Treasury official says that the move actually came at the behest of the American side.

IMHO RU's economy may seem weak at first sight but they obviously have learned a bit from their own past mistakes and those of others.  Sure the numbers may not look good but RU as a whole is quite resilient and able to withstand hardships that others may not be willing to take on.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 01, 2016, 09:13:05 AM
AKMike

IF you want to post links that are informative and unbiased - re cease fire breaches - suggest you use the OSCE Site..

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports (http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports)

Whilst I appreciate this cease-fire is within Ukraine - it is clear that it isn't just the 'rebels' who are breaching the cease-fire.

The problem is that every time the situation blows up BIG time - it is Kyiv that loses more men / territory...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 09:25:21 AM
More Swedes are favoring NATO than are against it and Russia issues out warning.

http://www.newsweek.com/russias-lavrov-warns-sweden-nato-membership-453890

Some see the glass half full and others see it half empty. There's aggression alright but it's Russia's aggression that pushes countries to want to join NATO. If Russia can show the world they are more stable and friendlier than NATO, they'll have nations wanting to do business with them more often.

It's a numbers game..  If Finland and Sweden decide to join nato RU will build up at the border which of course would require NATO to respond in kind, meaning bringing in outside assets to match.  Could get quite expensive in the end for NATO, the Finns and Swedes..  For RU it's pretty cheap to move things around a bit and add some GPS coordinates into their targeting systems, including nuclear. Really worth it?

Does anyone here really believe RU is going to invade Europe?  If not then learn to accept the new status-quo and move on.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 01, 2016, 09:40:09 AM
At last more help is coming for Ukraine.What it really needs is for US to stop talking-- and start doing. Multiple every Russian piece of aggression by 2  and call Putin's childish bluffing.Obama has made the attempt to pacify-- and been treated with contempt- now it is time to use the big sticks available.


US prepares to take a resonant bill on Ukraine, which could destroy Russia economically forever


The is more, much more to the Ukrainian story which goes back to the resolution of the Cuban Missile Crises. The Soviet Union was building a missile base 90 miles from the U.S. in response to the U.S. installing medium range Nuclear equipped Jupiter missiles near the Russian border. As part of the agreement to not install missiles in Cuba the U.S. secretly agreed to remove the Jupiter missiles.

Fast forward to the fall of the Soviet Union and the reunification of Germany, Russia was assured that NATO would not be expanded to the countries bordering Russian.

That promise like so many the U.S. has made was ignored.

Look at the map of NATO countries, it is pretty clear that the intent is to ring Russia with U.S. dominated NATO countries. When Ukraine elected a pro-Russian governemnt the U.S. worked to topple that governemnt http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-aided-a-coup-led-by-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5371940 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-aided-a-coup-led-by-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5371940) (one of many stories), the reasons are nuanced. Gas pipelines, arable farmland, strategic value and the ability to further encircle Russia are a few of the many reasons to topple a pro-Russian governemnt.

The U.S. was deep into the Ukrainian issue and is looking for a way out. The military aid given to Ukraine is garbage, outdated surplus equipment and their economy is in shambles. The current American administration is spineless, our commander and moron is an appeaser who is looking for a way to get out of Ukraine without loosing face.

Lets face it if Russia wanted to overrun Ukraine they could do so in around 10 days, fortunately that is not going to happen. By not so covertly (worst kept secret) Russia is equipping and supplying the breakaway regions. The fight is not yet over at least one more major offensive is coming, there is an old adage Use it or Loose it and there is a lot of men and equipment being massed on both sides.

Who will prevail is never assured a battle plan rarely survives the first shot.

Ukraine the Ukrainian leaders and those nationalists need to get over the loss of Crimea, it is now part of Russia and just like Jerusalem is now the capitol of Israel, Russia will never relinquish it.

The question is are the Ukrainian leaders the nationalists willing to mount an all out invasion and risk a Nuclear response in a failed attempt to get it back? Most would agree that Israel would use thermonuclear weapons in the face of overwhelming odds and or a surprise attack to retake Jerusalem. Why not the local commanders who have been given direct and operational control of their missiles?

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 09:59:57 AM
 It'll be interesting to see if Elvira Nabiullina can manage to pull a rabbit out of her hat this time. Since Russia's economy is a one trick pony depending on oil and gas sales the oil drop that's once again expected surely won't give her any tools to work with.

Bloomburg reports that, BNP, UBS, Commerzbank AG all see a repeat of the price drop of 2015 back down to the $30 per barrel mark. This combined with sanction is going to put a continuing hurt on the Russian economy. If the US bill to apply harder sanction against Russia goes thru it's not going to help either. The EU is expected to continue their sanction also.   Dammit, that's got to hurt the regular civilians at the ground level even more during these stressful times.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-29/oil-market-deja-vu-triggers-predictions-of-a-return-to-30
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 10:01:59 AM
Tigerpaws, would you mind changing your print color to black like others do? The blue is hard on my eyes.

Dyakuyu!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 10:04:52 AM

Fast forward to the fall of the Soviet Union and the reunification of Germany, Russia was assured that NATO would not be expanded to the countries bordering Russian.

That promise like so many the U.S. has made was ignored.

That's an often repeated "Old Wives Tale" without any basis. But it sounds good for the masses of vatniks.  Do a serious search and discover the real facts.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 01, 2016, 10:07:57 AM
It'll be interesting to see if Elvira Nabiullina can manage to pull a rabbit out of her hat this time. Since Russia's economy is a one trick pony depending on oil and gas sales the oil drop that's once again expected surely won't give her any tools to work with.

Bloomburg reports that, BNP, UBS, Commerzbank AG all see a repeat of the price drop of 2015 back down to the $30 per barrel mark. This combined with sanction is going to put a continuing hurt on the Russian economy. If the US bill to apply harder sanction against Russia goes thru it's not going to help either. The EU is expected to continue their sanction also.   Dammit, that's got to hurt the regular civilians at the ground level even more during these stressful times.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-29/oil-market-deja-vu-triggers-predictions-of-a-return-to-30 (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-29/oil-market-deja-vu-triggers-predictions-of-a-return-to-30)

France is on the verge of unilaterally ending the sanctions, when not if that happens the embargo is effectively over. Germany desperately wants the sanctions to be lifted, it is only the U.S. that is keeping that from happening.

Frances farmers are being paid over a Billion Euros for their losses because EU regulations will not allow them to sell their excess production because it would suppress prices, so they are being paid to destroy it. Germany and many other EU countries are in the same situation all the while Russia finds other sources of imported goods and improves its domestic production. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on May 01, 2016, 10:09:44 AM
Does anyone here really believe RU is going to invade Europe? 


I don't believe Russia will invade Europe but if I were a leader in Sweden or Finland and thought there would be a 1% chance Russia could get aggressive with my nation, I have a responsibility to make sure that 1% gets rolled back to 0%. I understand why people in Sweden and Finland are getting nervous that they entire existence and way of life could end. In 2013, if you ask Ukrainians if they think Russia is going to invade, most wouldn't believe it would happen. Nobody had any idea what would trigger Russia to invade another nation and that unknown gets people worried. Couple that with Russia's history in the past 100 years with the amount of nations Russia's controlled, anything is possible.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 10:21:31 AM
France is on the verge of unilaterally ending the sanctions, when not if that happens the embargo is effectively over. Germany desperately wants the sanctions to be lifted, it is only the U.S. that is keeping that from happening.

Frances farmers are being paid over a Billion Euros for their losses because EU regulations will not allow them to sell their excess production because it would suppress prices, so they are being paid to destroy it. Germany and many other EU countries are in the same situation all the while Russia finds other sources of imported goods and improves its domestic production. 

Russia has bans already in place against foreign food imports. The recently destroyed almost 100 tons of apples from the evil west.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 01, 2016, 10:30:47 AM
Russia has bans already in place against foreign food imports. The recently destroyed almost 100 tons of apples from the evil west.

Sanctions work both ways and no one wins.

AkMike, sorry that you are discomforted by the blue color, it is more comfortable for me to see.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 11:11:32 AM
No problem, Your choice. The regular black works better for me to see. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 11:20:14 AM
No problem, Your choice. The regular black works better for me to see.

At least he's using a normal sized font.. much improvement over his posts years ago IIRC :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 11:25:34 AM
BC is the blue harder for you to see also? Or is it just my eyes?  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 01, 2016, 11:45:26 AM
BC is the blue harder for you to see also? Or is it just my eyes?  :rolleyes:
It's terrible.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 01, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Look at the map of NATO countries, it is pretty clear that the intent is to ring Russia with U.S. dominated NATO countries. When Ukraine elected a pro-Russian governemnt the U.S. worked to topple that governemnt http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-aided-a-coup-led-by-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5371940 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-aided-a-coup-led-by-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5371940) (one of many stories), the reasons are nuanced. Gas pipelines, arable farmland, strategic value and the ability to further encircle Russia are a few of the many reasons to topple a pro-Russian governemnt.

I would have been more prepared to take this seriously if you had referenced just about any other "coup" story.  This nonsense about neo-Nazis taking over Kyiv has been discredited since the day that it was first published.  There are far more neo-Nazis in Moscow than in the whole of Ukraine.  Besides which, Ukraine had had pro-Russian governments right from when the Soviet Union broke up.  Are you trying to imply that it took the US more than 20 years to actually manage a coup?  Please get real.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 01, 2016, 05:58:15 PM
France is on the verge of unilaterally ending the sanctions, when not if that happens the embargo is effectively over. Germany desperately wants the sanctions to be lifted, it is only the U.S. that is keeping that from happening.

Frances farmers are being paid over a Billion Euros for their losses because EU regulations will not allow them to sell their excess production because it would suppress prices, so they are being paid to destroy it. Germany and many other EU countries are in the same situation all the while Russia finds other sources of imported goods and improves its domestic production. 

Just curious.  When was the last time you were in Russia?  I lived there last fall.  You act as if the sanctions are having no effect and that Russia shrugs them off without cost.  I have news for you.  Russia has exhausted its petro dollar reserve fund which, before Maidan, was at over 475 billion dollars (at the then current exchange rate).  Russia has gone from 38 Rubles to the Dollar to, at some times, over 80 Rubles to the Dollar.    Russia is using every possible device to keep Russian citizens from going outside of Russia.  Over 6 percent of all Russians now have travel bans, keeping them from leaving the country.   Instead Russia is trying to redirect its citizens to vacation in Russia BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO GO THERE!

You have described a very harsh assessment of Western Europe, while at the same time ignoring that Russia is greatly suffering the double whammy of low oil prices and sanctions.  Use your geopolitical intelligence that I have seen you exhibit quite often.  No one wins in sanctions.  But right now, Russia is losing more than the Western Alliance that chose to sanction Russia for its behavior in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on May 01, 2016, 06:03:29 PM
you know   tiger paws  ;D  there is an odd  fact in regards to all this propaganda about NATO & AMERICA  wanting to put a ''ring '' of NATO countries around russia

fact is all the countries who have joined NATO have asked for that to take place , there are others who as yet have not been allowed to join NATO , yet still desire to

the other important point is that at no time has NATO or the US ever expressed any desire to invade or capture russia , nor has russia ever been invaded by a nato country other than germany during ww2 , when america was a russian ally

russia threatens others & seeks to be isolated by its actions and  then complains loudly about it


SX

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 01, 2016, 07:09:50 PM
And keep in mind that for sometime of the beginning of WWII Russia was allies with the Nazi's.  :cluebat: 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 01, 2016, 10:40:03 PM
And keep in mind that for sometime of the beginning of WWII Russia was allies with the Nazi's.  :cluebat:

Yes, they carved up  Poland between 'em and Britain / USA did nothing to discourage  it... in fact, 'your lot' really took their time to get - officially - involved

BTW

It was the Soviet Union - run by a lot of Georgians..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 02, 2016, 02:19:58 AM
I would have been more prepared to take this seriously if you had referenced just about any other "coup" story.  This nonsense about neo-Nazis taking over Kyiv has been discredited since the day that it was first published.  There are far more neo-Nazis in Moscow than in the whole of Ukraine.  Besides which, Ukraine had had pro-Russian governments right from when the Soviet Union broke up.  Are you trying to imply that it took the US more than 20 years to actually manage a coup?  Please get real.

Thank you, Kiwi. You nailed it. As someone who has stood there when Maidan was aflame, the Kyiv "coup" bullshit is just that--pure bullshit.

There was a coup however: the Crimean (pro-Russian) parliament was stormed by unmarked armed forces (dropped by helicopters from a larger neighboring nation) and disbanded. A day later a new Rada was announced, led by a Russian member of the Security services. The neo-Nazi conspiracy theorists however have chosen to ignore that coup--or perhaps they just do not have the brain cells to understand what happened.

As to anyone dumb enough to complaint about NATO encircling Russia, I'm often only too happy to remind such idiots that NATO at one time paid for a base INSIDE Russia, approved by none other than Vladimir Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 02, 2016, 07:26:33 AM
Just curious.  When was the last time you were in Russia?  I lived there last fall.  You act as if the sanctions are having no effect and that Russia shrugs them off without cost.  I have news for you.  Russia has exhausted its petro dollar reserve fund which, before Maidan, was at over 475 billion dollars (at the then current exchange rate).  Russia has gone from 38 Rubles to the Dollar to, at some times, over 80 Rubles to the Dollar.    Russia is using every possible device to keep Ru including ssian citizens from going outside of Russia.  Over 6 percent of all Russians now have travel bans, keeping them from leaving the country.   Instead Russia is trying to redirect its citizens to vacation in Russia BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO GO THERE!

You have described a very harsh assessment of Western Europe, while at the same time ignoring that Russia is greatly suffering the double whammy of low oil prices and sanctions.  Use your geopolitical intelligence that I have seen you exhibit quite often.  No one wins in sanctions.  But right now, Russia is losing more than the Western Alliance that chose to sanction Russia for its behavior in Ukraine.

To answer you question directly I was in Russia for several months this past winter for business and so that my wife and daughter could stay and visit with family. I traveled extensively including several trips to the Ukrainian border and one covert trip across the border to look over the equipment I arranged to be delivered. I visited front line units and much, much more.

Yes Russia is suffering but I have also seen the build up of the in country production and the push to increase this even more. This takes time but once it builds Russia will rely less and less on outside sources of goods and supplies.

Russia is playing a long game, the EU is also suffering because of the loss of exports. Additionally Russia is reducing its U.S. cash and bond reserves buy using these finical instruments for external contract payments and to purchase physical Gold.

If Russia wanted to cripple the EU and crush NATO it could be accomplished fairly quickly without firing a shot by canceling all Natural Gas contracts with NATO Member countries and those EU member nations engaged in "Aggressive" actions against Russia. Do this a few weeks before the start of winter and watch the domino's fall. 
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 02, 2016, 10:03:08 AM
Yeah, reminds me of the Japan embargo by the US, right before the start of WWII.  I guess we all know how that turned out.

Russia is playing the long game and they have some very intelligent people that are in both their government and military.  The problem is that these people are no longer making the big decisions.  I, too, have had business in Russia.  While Russia appears to seek re-establishment of their client states which made up the Eastern Block under the Soviet Union, the monetary systems of its lesser allies (and sycophants) continue to deteriorate.  Armenia, for example, is tied to the Ruble.  How long are the Armenians going to accept the degradation of their economy to accommodate Moscow's whims. 

I had the chance to tour Kazakhstan in October.  The infrastructure there is continuing to out strip any infrastructure development by Russia.  The reason?  Western Countries, particularly, the US, continue to invest there and are in joint partnerships with the Kazaks. 

The former Soviet block countries, even the Asian ones, are turning towards the West for development because Russia no longer has money or interest.   As a note, while I was there, Putin shows up.  The purpose of his visit?  To arrange joint development of oil resources in the Caspian Sea.  Pretty silly, in my estimation.   It demonstrates, once again, what a big gamble Putin is taking with Russia's future.    He's subscribing to all of these developmental projects and has no cash to implement them.   He's hoping, instead, that militarily Russia will influence its neighbors and, therefore, control their development.   

There is your longterm.  Unless he wins on the battlefield, he loses influence.  And, ultimately, he pushes his developing neighbors right into NATO.  Under the influence of the Soviet Union, Eastern Block countries were subservient to Russia.  These countries created an artificial standard of living for Russians.  Now that these countries no longer wish to foot Moscow's bill, and the price of oil remains low, and the sanctions continue to bite, Russia has no choice but to do something stupid.  Like instigate war. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 02, 2016, 10:15:11 AM
Lest I  be misunderstood, I want to further comment on where I see Russia right now:

I love Russia.  I have spent much time there over the last few decades.  I understand what Putin is trying to do.  He has been dealt a busted flush.  So he has to push in all directions.  Then, along come sanctions and (Holy Sh&t) the oil market tanks.  In many cases, it now costs more to suck the oil out of the ground than what is being paid for it. 

Belligerence is the only option left to him.   Include his KGB/FSB upbringing, and the further inclusion of an additional many such men in his government, and a single party government, the pressure on him becomes almost intolerable.

I hope he can find his way out of his hole.  Because, quite honestly, the alternatives to Putin, in my mind, are much worse.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 02, 2016, 10:26:40 AM

Yes Russia is suffering but I have also seen the build up of the in country production and the push to increase this even more. This takes time but once it builds Russia will rely less and less on outside sources of goods and supplies.

Covert crossings of national borders ?  :D

A good place to compare life in Ukraine /Russia is here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34066101 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34066101)

I've been and the train even enters into Ukraine ..there was a blue metal screen erected- but as the train can wonder in and out - I can't see how people can't.

Sorry, but you were joking when you suggested Russia would dare [ could ever afford] to cut off gas, right.. ?  Just like Russia has been busy building up protectionist food production - and the consumer is paying through the nose for this - Europe is looking to alternatives to Russian energy. It can't / won't happen over night.

It's all rather silly - when viewed in isolation - protectionism normally creates inefficiency and high costs  -it is often a facet of short-sighted patriotism ...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 02, 2016, 10:53:09 AM
Yeah, reminds me of the Japan embargo by the US, right before the start of WWII.  I guess we all know how that turned out.

Russia is playing the long game and they have some very intelligent people that are in both their government and military.  The problem is that these people are no longer making the big decisions.  I, too, have had business in Russia.  While Russia appears to seek re-establishment of their client states which made up the Eastern Block under the Soviet Union, the monetary systems of its lesser allies (and sycophants) continue to deteriorate.  Armenia, for example, is tied to the Ruble.  How long are the Armenians going to accept the degradation of their economy to accommodate Moscow's whims. 

I had the chance to tour Kazakhstan in October.  The infrastructure there is continuing to out strip any infrastructure development by Russia.  The reason?  Western Countries, particularly, the US, continue to invest there and are in joint partnerships with the Kazaks. 

The former Soviet block countries, even the Asian ones, are turning towards the West for development because Russia no longer has money or interest.   As a note, while I was there, Putin shows up.  The purpose of his visit?  To arrange joint development of oil resources in the Caspian Sea.  Pretty silly, in my estimation.   It demonstrates, once again, what a big gamble Putin is taking with Russia's future.    He's subscribing to all of these developmental projects and has no cash to implement them.   He's hoping, instead, that militarily Russia will influence its neighbors and, therefore, control their development.   

There is your longterm.  Unless he wins on the battlefield, he loses influence.  And, ultimately, he pushes his developing neighbors right into NATO.  Under the influence of the Soviet Union, Eastern Block countries were subservient to Russia.  These countries created an artificial standard of living for Russians.  Now that these countries no longer wish to foot Moscow's bill, and the price of oil remains low, and the sanctions continue to bite, Russia has no choice but to do something stupid.  Like instigate war.

Like it or not, believe it or not a War is coming, how big it will be and when and how it will start are the only things which is as yet unknown. The reasons are global including the 20 plus Trillion USD America is officially in debt, the actual number is far higher and the amount is the subject of tremendous speculation.  The derivatives market is estimated at 220 plus Trillion USD world wide, every nation is up to its collective eyes in it, derivatives are the real weapons of mass destruction.

Everything in the global finical markets is suppressed, manipulated and faked. The world will go to War to cover up the corruption as the system fails. How many will die will be dependent on how big and wide spread the War becomes. Rememberit was Vasili Arkhipov, who was the man who stopped a nuclear war because of his actions on October 27, 1962. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/27/vasili-arkhipov-stopped-nuclear-war (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/27/vasili-arkhipov-stopped-nuclear-war)

Will cooler heads prevail again?

Russia is now the
Boogeyman a convenient propaganda tool, most Americans equate Russia today with the Soviet Union so it east to demonize them. Lets be honest the vast majority of American's are lucky they are able to walk, talk and breath at the same time. The bury themselves in TV, Facebook and whatever BS is distracting at the moment. Most of the public has the attention span of just a few seconds and if it is not in their backyard, if they do not see the issue.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 02, 2016, 10:56:32 AM
As if Moscow doesn't already have enough problems to contend with, Now they have rabid hedgehogs to contend with.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/rabid-hedgehogs-roam-moscow-region/567685.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 02, 2016, 11:01:06 AM

Sorry, but you were joking when you suggested Russia would dare [ could ever afford] to cut off gas, right.. ?  Just like Russia has been busy building up protectionist food production - and the consumer is paying through the nose for this - Europe is looking to alternative to Russian energy. It can't / won't happen over night.

It's all rather silly - when viewed in isolation - protectionism normally creates inefficiency and high costs  -it is often a facet of short-sighted patriotism ...

Oh! I agree the chances are slim to nonexistent that Russia would cut off gas supplies, my suggestion was only a hypothetical as to how NATO could be crushed. This very scenario was a subject of much discussion during my time at the U.S. War Collage. The results were always War.

Sanctions are unproductive.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on May 02, 2016, 01:43:41 PM

SATIRE IS THRIVING IN RUSSIA, WHILE MANY RUSSIANS AREN’T


(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac150/clmontes/russiasatire01_zpsqcgoqsmp.jpg)


A puppet of Russian President Vladimir Putin, left, whispers to a puppet of former Moscow mayor Yuri Luzhkov, June 29, 2000 on the set of satirical television show Kukly. NTV refused to remove Putin's puppet from the show after making fun of him. Within months, the channel was under state control.


http://www.newsweek.com/russia-political-satire-vladimir-putin-ntv-454525?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Behind-the-Barricades-With-Trump-Cruz-and-Mr-Bad-H&utm_campaign=newsweek_email_newsletter
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 02, 2016, 05:20:30 PM
Hum.... Not so bad for Russia
Gazprom profit jumps 71% as ruble drops http://www.rt.com/business/312040-gazprom-profit-gas-ruble/ (http://www.rt.com/business/312040-gazprom-profit-gas-ruble/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 02, 2016, 06:18:11 PM
Yeah sure,,  The chart on this link shows just how great they're doing.,,

Of course RT NEVER distorts the truth does it?  :wallbash:

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=russian-natural-gas


Month

Price

Change

Oct 2015 6.01 -
Nov 2015 5.87 -2.33 %
Dec 2015 5.81 -1.02 %
Jan 2016 5.09 -12.39 %
Feb 2016 4.79 -5.89 %
Mar 2016 4.09 -14.61 %
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 03, 2016, 01:17:00 AM
Quote
Yes Russia is suffering but I have also seen the build up of the in country production and the push to increase this even more. This takes time but once it builds Russia will rely less and less on outside sources of goods and supplies.



Reality check: one of the frustrations in the business community is that there is no advance in production because most of it is controlled by Oligarchs and the people in the trenches have their hands tied.

Russia bulldozed as much European cheese into landfills last summer as it produced independently on domestic markets. My wife now reads labels like they were the 4 gospels. Everything from ice cream to butter to milk is produced using vegetable oil as a substitute for milk because the cattle industry in Russia is in decline despite the cheery lies reported by the government. Ask any housewife - they are not fooled.

Speaking of cattle, one state, Nebraska, gives Russia a run for the money when it comes to production of beef and beef products. In fact, Russia produced more beef for market in 1998 (a time of near famine) than it did in 2015 or will in 2016. Factor in the other Midwest farm states and suddenly the country with one-sixth of all land on the earth's surface doesn't look so big after all.

This year Russia is expected to produce 3.75 million metric tonnes of poultry for market. Little Finland did 3.8 back in 1996.

The only things that the domestic promises have produced in 2015 and 2016 in Russia are empty rhetoric and hot air. We are headed back to the old Soviet days when meeting quotas is accomplished by fudging numbers and towing shells of trucks out on the factory lots and calling them ready for market even though there were no engines or steering wheels inside.

During many of the Soviet years, little private dacha gardens had higher production yields than state farms. Look for that to return.

As for vegetables, well thank God there is Belarus and all their farms on the border. The Eurasian Union will be good for something.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 03, 2016, 02:13:50 AM
All this talk of domestic production reminds me of an old Soviet joke:

There were two friends, Ivan and John. Ivan was from Tolyatti and John was from Detroit. Both worked in auto manufacturing factories and had met during an educational exchange at the Ford motor plant in Gorky.

They just happened to die on the same day, and woke up to find themselves facing Saint Peter just outside the Pearly Gates. Unfortunately, Peter had bad news as both had failed the entrance exams for heaven. So, they were dispatched to the warmer regions underneath the earth's surface - and we don't mean Uzbekistan or Florida, either.

There, Lucifer met the two and after some small talk about cars and such, they were given a choice: each man could choose to enter capitalist hell, or communist hell.

Ivan thought about it, and after awhile decided to enter communist hell. It was all he knew and he feared being out of place among so many capitalists. After all, he really didn't have the right clothes to blend in with such a crowd.

John made his decision more quickly. He reckoned that it might be easier to move into a management position someday if hard work was rewarded. Plus, he had many friends in capitalist hell.

Exactly one year later, and it just happened to be May 1, all the inhabitants of both hells were given a one day pass to rest and relax in the forest on Mayday. As luck would have it, the two friends happened to bump into each other. Eager to share experiences, they began to tell each other about their versions of hell.

"What is it like in capitalist hell?" Ivan asked John.

"Oh, the work is back breaking," John explained. "The food is horrible, and we are allowed a shower just one day each week. From dawn to dark we shovel shit for 16 hours a day with hardly a break. I return to my cell each night covered with excrement, so exhausted that I just fall into bed until the bell sounds at 4am the next morning. They don't pay benefits until after the 20th year, there is no pension plan, and no paid vacation."

"Tell me about communist hell," John said to Ivan.

"It is boring," Ivan told John. "Just like in the Soviet Union there are always shortages, and so we stand around idle a lot."

"Shortages?" queried a surprised John. "What kind of shortages?"

"It is the same-old, same-old bad management" Ivan explained. "One day they say there are no shovels, and then the next day it seems as if they have run out of shit."



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 03, 2016, 07:15:27 AM
Putin fires top cops and promotes loyalist to him to consolidate his power. It looks like Stalin's Iron Fist is returning especially sine he formed his own National Guard recently.

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-just-made-a-major-change-to-russian-law-enforcement-2016-5
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 03, 2016, 07:18:43 AM
While I agree with most of what was said in the two posts above, Russia today needs to be put into proper perspective. The Soviet Union collapsed a mere 25 years ago (1991) after 70 years of iron handed rule and while Russia is an old nation they have a very young economy which has only recently been left to flourish on its own.

Most of the current leaders (Putin included) were part of the old Soviet Union, they grew up, were educated, lived and worked in that system. It is important to remember that in order to put their actions today into perspective.

In 2000 when my wife left her small town 1,000 km east of Moscow she was living in a Soviet built 11 story apartment block with her mother, sister and grandmother. She was still washing her clothes in the bathtub and hanging them to dry all over the apartment. Not exactly a vision of a modern first world nation.

After the collapse there were some 25 million ethnic Russians scattered across the Former Soviet empire, some wanted to stay where they were, many were not able to afford to get out and others like my wife who was born and raised in Tajikistan were forced to leave at gunpoint by the new ethnically pure local Tajik government.

Nothing about the collapse was easy, the economy was in shambles, the political system was in disarray the newly elected Yeltsin administration was incompetent so the criminals took over. It was the criminals and criminal opportunists who were the first to adapt to the new reality which led to further economic instability.

If we are honest the improvements to Russian economy is because of the stability brought to Russia by a charismatic and pragmatic hard line Russian Nationalist Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. But change takes time, a lot of time and change is not without its ups and downs along the way. Look back into U.S. history, who controlled most of the major cities before that wonderful and failed American experiment Prohibition? Gangsters and criminals. As Al Capone is reputed to have said Don't fight the police and politicians, pay them off. Before that there was the robber Barron's and the new industrialists, the U.S. was a mess, child labor, mining wars and terrible worker exploitation and much, much more.

Eventually the U.S. grew up, laws were enacted, enforcement mechanisms became stronger and America flourished. Russia given time, likely two generations, but who knows it might take more, should evolve and grow up to become what I believe most hope it can be.

 


 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 03, 2016, 09:15:32 AM
http://news.vice.com/video/shell-shocked-ukraines-trauma (http://news.vice.com/video/shell-shocked-ukraines-trauma)

For those of you who have never seen war, death and its aftermath, who have never experienced the feeling and knowledge that the man next to you would die for you and that you would lay your life down for him please forget for a minute that this conflict is between Russia and Ukraine. Look and listen to the people.

War is Hell.

While the Vice News report is shown from the Ukrainian side of the conflict be assured that the suffering goes on ill-regardless of which side we are talking about.

I am not attempting to suggest who is right and who is wrong in this conflict, but much of the bureaucratic BS shown sounds just like it was towards the end of Vietnam and the men our men suffered just the same.

While you are in the Military you are take care of, you are family. When you leave for any reason you are forgotten and ignored.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 03, 2016, 09:35:12 AM
Quote
If we are honest the improvements to Russian economy is because of the stability brought to Russia by a charismatic and pragmatic hard line Russian Nationalist Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. But change takes time, a lot of time and change is not without its ups and downs along the way. Look back into U.S. history, who controlled most of the major cities before that wonderful and failed American experiment Prohibition? Gangsters and criminals. As Al Capone is reputed to have said Don't fight the police and politicians, pay them off. Before that there was the robber Barron's and the new industrialists, the U.S. was a mess, child labor, mining wars and terrible worker exploitation and much, much more.


I hear that "logic" a lot. It doesn't hold water, however.

Putin took over in 2000. He used the first 8 years to build up the oil industry. He gave loyalists the opportunity to become wealthy to mindboggling degrees. To those who were not loyal, they were stripped of assets and put in jail. Some died.

Outside of natural resources, change was much more gradual. Restive regions like Chechnya were bombed into the stone age, then rebuilt with oil money and new local leaders who were loyalists.

In 2008, Dmitry Medvedev, a person with much more liberal and pro-democracy views came to office. He began to reform the economy and especially the legal system, not a surprise given his passion as a professor of law. When it comes to positive changes for the everyday Russian, more improvements came during 2008 to 2012 than the previous 8 years. I will allow that the previous terms did have those challenges that you mentioned. But after 2008 the country experienced a totally new attitude toward small business and began to enjoy changes in the rule of law.

In 2012, in a move that surprised Medvedev and others, Putin decided to return. There were reasons for that return, and many of those reasons had to do with uncertainty in the security services, and the fact that some of the old loyalist Oligarchs were just not feeling the same amount of love under an Medvedev administration. There was also the question of whether Putin could trust a new more open society to look past some of the darker moments of his previous rule.

After the election of 2012, Putin made a gesture to the West by allowing NATO to have a base INSIDE Russia. Of course, high rent was a part of the deal, but it turned to a lie the idea that Russia was being surrounded by aggressive West out to dominate Moscow & Co. Oh, and part of the deal included Washington recognizing a flawed 2012 election that returned Putin to power.

There were some quirks in the NATO base: Putin soon insisted that companies run by Oligarchs, instead of NATO personnel, have exclusive access to maintenance of NATO planes, for example. That went over in DC and Brussels like a lead balloon, and when Russian media (then still independent) began to inform the Russia public about a NATO base inside Russia, it didn't take long for the deal to end. Today, the old story of "NATO is trying to surround us" is back, and it seems that nationalism trumps reality these days.

As for your theory that these things take time, and Russia is a young democracy still finding her way, that is hogwash. In four short years, Putin has dialed the liberalization of Russia back to previous levels. Medvedev had allowed regional governors to be elected (as provided for in the RF Constitution, something that Putin had ended after Beslan). Putin has reversed that constitutional right, and we are not only seeing him appoint governors, but in some cases other elected positions.

The loyal opposition had flourished under Medvedev, as he understood that democracy has competing voices. All opposition has been crushed in the four years since Putin's return. Media is no longer independent and has almost exclusively come under Kremlin control, with a couple of exceptions to showcase to the West (Radio Echo Moscow and Rain TV, for instance). Both of those however are under incredible scrutiny and pressure.

The clock has been turned back on the rule of law. Courts are no longer independent, and the old Soviet "telephone verdict" idea of courts waiting for a phone call from on high before determining a case has returned with a vengeance.

Today, small business owners watch helplessly as their kiosks (with stamped documents) as bulldozed overnight. In their place, new stores that just happen to be owned by Oligarchs.

Oddly, if your theory were true, then it should have taken as much time for the oil industry and the military to modernize as say, the farming industry. But your theory is not true: farming has improved thanks to the Medvedev era, but it is sliding back into old habits as corruption is the order of the day. The oil industry has modernized at lightening speed even given the more recent downturn in oil pricing.

The military modernization programme has exploded. If Putin needs more time to "turn around" the rest of the economy, then why in hell has the military advanced so rapidly? Answer: because it is a priority and receives funding and attention. The rest of the economy, not so much.

The idea that Russia just needs more time is a nice soundbite. In reality, it is a falsehood.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 03, 2016, 09:36:45 AM
Quote
I am not attempting to suggest who is right and who is wrong in this conflict


Ah, but I will. A small neighbor was invaded in two regions, Crimea and the East, by the neighborhood bully.

Fact: you don't see Ukrainian equipment and troops operating inside Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 03, 2016, 09:42:39 AM

Ah, but I will. A small neighbor was invaded in two regions, Crimea and the East, by the neighborhood bully.

Fact: you don't see Ukrainian equipment and troops operating inside Russia.

With all due respect you are not looking at the human cost, you view is distorted by you political agenda. The post was and is not a political view.

Perhaps you are so jaded in your view that you missed the point.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 03, 2016, 09:58:47 AM

I hear that "logic" a lot. It doesn't hold water, however.

The idea that Russia just needs more time is a nice soundbite. In reality, it is a falsehood.


It may not hold water in your view and that is fine, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

The future is always in flux, the leaders of any given country come to power and fall from power, few if any are good, some are competent, most are inept and or criminal. 

Change comes slowly and not everyone agrees with change. I currently have one home in Russia and I am looking to purchase another, I do business with factions within Russian so I have a vested interest in believing there will a change for the better.

Our daughter speaks and reads Russian fairly well and she is beginning at my insistence to learn Mandarin because these regions represent the economies of tomorrow. Will America continue to play a major roll in the world? It is difficult to say, the U.S. is teetering on precipice of an economic disaster which will have global ramifications.

What things on the other side will look like is anyone's guess.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 03, 2016, 10:02:04 AM
I think we ALL are looking at the human cost.  What other cost is there?  Most of us know families that have seen their sons go off to war.  Families with sleepless nights and wondering whether they will see their loved one again. 

Mendy has an agenda.  But, I think all of us who have known him for awhile realize that this point of view was arrived at, not preconceived.    Most of his authorship stems from cultural integration and celebrating the Russian people.  But, Tiger Paws, you must not be fully aware of the risks Mendy takes by writing the things he does, living inside of Russia.  I know that I am not the only one who has contacted him out of concern for speaking out.  Your position is fairly comfortable, knowing your activies.  His is not.

We all know of the 75th Paratrooper Division who now reside at the Cemetery in Perm.  These men went into Ukraine early in the war and came home in boxes. The human cost is something Russia historically has been willing to pay.  But the reasons that these men died was not because of some great injustice done the Russian people.  But, instead, it was a political decision to exercise influence over a neighbor and a statement of a new aggressive military posture.

Some on this forum would state that the more dead Russians, the better for Ukraine.  But I would say that I am sad for any soldier killed in this conflict.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 03, 2016, 10:36:47 AM

We all know of the 75th Paratrooper Division who now reside at the Cemetery in Perm.  These men went into Ukraine early in the war and came home in boxes. The human cost is something Russia historically has been willing to pay.  But the reasons that these men died was not because of some great injustice done the Russian people.  But, instead, it was a political decision to exercise influence over a neighbor and a statement of a new aggressive military posture.

Some on this forum would state that the more dead Russians, the better for Ukraine.  But I would say that I am sad for any soldier killed in this conflict.

Yes and the 58,220 dead in Vietnam was for a noble cause?

I have been to the Wall, I have touched the names of good young men I knew and commanded, and yes I remember each and every one of them. Some still haunt my dreams today, at least I will not forget them.

The U.S. has much more blood on its hands but most people quickly ignore and forget that.

There is no just war, necessary wars sometimes, but never just.

How Many Died in the Bombing of Dresden?
Figures suggested have ranged from 35,000 through 100,000, and even up to half a million at the wilder fringes of speculation. All because the U.S. Generals wanted to see if it could be done.

What about
the carpet-bombing of Hamburg that killed 40,000 people or the firebombing of Tokyo, where 2,000 tons of incendiary bombs were dropped over the course of 48 hours. Almost 16 square miles in and around the Japanese capital were incinerated, and between 80,000 and 130,000 Japanese civilians were killed in the worst single firestorm in recorded history.

How many children died, how many women, how many innocents were burned alive?

The U.S. and its so called allies are still intentionally killing innocent people today simply because they get in the way and because they can.

There are no innocent players on the world stage.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 03, 2016, 01:05:13 PM



After the election of 2012, Putin made a gesture to the West by allowing NATO to have a base INSIDE Russia. Of course, high rent was a part of the deal, but it turned to a lie the idea that Russia was being surrounded by aggressive West out to dominate Moscow & Co. Oh, and part of the deal included Washington recognizing a flawed 2012 election that returned Putin to power.

There were some quirks in the NATO base: Putin soon insisted that companies run by Oligarchs, instead of NATO personnel, have exclusive access to maintenance of NATO planes, for example. That went over in DC and Brussels like a lead balloon, and when Russian media (then still independent) began to inform the Russia public about a NATO base inside Russia, it didn't take long for the deal to end. Today, the old story of "NATO is trying to surround us" is back, and it seems that nationalism trumps reality these days.



I don't see the 'logic' in what you are saying here.  The way you state it, Russia played us by allowing NATO to have a base temporarily, and received some good benefits for the time it was there...then after benefits were received they made sure we were packed up and scooted on out.    All of this DOES NOT provide evidence that NATO isn't a part of a design to isolate, or financially dominate Russia as much as possible.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 03, 2016, 01:12:21 PM
Quote
you view is distorted by you political agenda



Not political at all. I love Russia as a people, land, and culture. I dislike much about the current Russian government as I also dislike about the American government.

Now, instead of saying something is political, if you have facts that disprove what I wrote--post them. But do not just repeat tired and regurgitated garbage because if you do I will chew it up and spit it out faster than you imagine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 03, 2016, 01:24:21 PM

I don't see the 'logic' in what you are saying here.  The way you state it, Russia played us by allowing NATO to have a base temporarily, and received some good benefits for the time it was there...then after benefits were received they made sure we were packed up and scooted on out.    All of this DOES NOT provide evidence that NATO isn't a part of a design to isolate, or financially dominate Russia as much as possible.


Fathertime!


I have absolutely no doubt that you do not see the logic. Welcome to my world.

Do you have a reason why the USA might supposedly wish to dominate Russia?

We brought them into the WTO, something they begged us to do. For years we paid to clean up their old chemical and nuke wastelands. So much for our isolating them as you believe.

Oil can be found in lots of places around the world, including closer to home. Russians are told in media, daily, that the USA wants to someday invade and take over Russian oil. Can you think of anyone since the 1400s who has successfully conquered Russia?


Finally, just to clarify on your logic: so if you were the leader of a nation that felt threatened by the world's largest and most modern standing army, you would allow them to establish a base inside your borders?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 03, 2016, 02:42:58 PM

Oil can be found in lots of places around the world, including closer to home. Russians are told in media, daily, that the USA wants to someday invade and take over Russian oil. Can you think of anyone since the 1400s who has successfully conquered Russia?

Finally, just to clarify on your logic: so if you were the leader of a nation that felt threatened by the world's largest and most modern standing army, you would allow them to establish a base inside your borders?

Physically invading Russia = Loss, making Russia the bad guy is easy Propaganda as most Americans are simply stupid.

The worlds largest standing Army, China has that dubious honor, the most modern standing Army the U.S. is still tops in that regard. Russia is trying and building but as long as they insist on conscripts and not a 100% professional fighting force then that distinction will allude Russia. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 03, 2016, 02:56:19 PM
Tom Clancy Predicted Ship-Killing A-10s‘The Hunt for Red October’ sends Warthog attack jets against Soviet warshipsIn April 2016, the U.S. Air Force deployed (http://warisboring.com/the-pentagon-sent-four-a-10-attack-jets-to-fly-around-china-s-claims-in-the-south-china-sea-acc3ead472c0#.9zaxpdcqy) four A-10 Warthog attack jets to The Philippines for patrols over the South China Sea, where China has been building artificial islands and sailing warships in order to expand its territorial claims on mineral-rich waters.
The low- and slow-flying A-10 — the Air Force’s premier tank-killer — might seem like an odd choice for a maritime patrol plane, especially in air space where there’s a good chance of running into supersonic Chinese fighters.
Indeed, the Warthogs’ deployment seems to be a matter of convenience for the U.S. military, which has struggled to field an adequate number of fighters. “Given the demand around the world, a tactical fighter squadron is a tactical fighter squadron is a tactical fighter squadron,” Bob Work, the deputy defense secretary, told (http://breakingdefense.com/2016/02/high-tech-seed-corn-for-next-president-bob-work-on-2017-budget/) Breaking Defense.
But the radar-less A-10 is capable of fighting at sea, provided some other plane does the sensor work. Warthogs gunned enemy patrol boats during the NATO intervention in Libya in 2011. And 27 years earlier in 1984, the late novelist Tom Clancy described A-10s taking on the Soviet navy in his classic technothriller The Hunt for Red October.
With a rogue Soviet commander steering his high-tech nuclear submarine toward the United States, aiming for asylum, Soviet and American air and naval forces grapple over the Atlantic — coming dangerously close to sparking World War III.
A Soviet surface action group led by the nuclear battlecruiser Kirov steams just off the U.S. East Coast. The Americans intend to send a message — back off. A hundred Air Force fighters fly toward Kirov, seeming to the battlecruiser’s radar operators like an “alpha strike,” a major aerial anti-ship raid.
“It was exactly that — and a feint,” Clancy writes. “The real mission belonged to the low-level team of four.” That is, a flight of four A-10s from the Maryland Air National Guard, which today still operates the type in real life.
Armed with a full load of depleted-uranium ammunition for their 30-millimeter cannons plus underwing Rockeye cluster bombs, the Warthogs of Linebacker flight fly just 100 feet above the waves in order to stay off Kirov’s radar screens, their part-time pilots observing radio silence to complete their stealthy profiles.
The lead A-10 pilot, Richardson, is an airline captain by day. “So far as he knew, the Hog had never been used for maritime strike missions,” Clancy describes Richardson thinking. “It was no surprise she’d be good at it. Her antitank munitions would be effective against ships. Her cannon slugs and Rockeye clusters were designed to shred armored battle tanks, and he had no doubts what they would do to thin-hulled warships.
“Too bad this wasn’t for real. It was about time somebody taught Ivan a lesson.”
Approaching the Soviet ships, an Air Force E-3 Sentry radar early-warning plane guiding them via one-way radio messages, the A-10s spread out across a 30-mile long formation. Soviet radars begin to ping them.
Richardson “began to maneuver his aircraft radically, jinking up, down, left, right, in no particular pattern. It was only a game, but there was no sense in giving Ivan an easy time.”
Five hundred yards from Kirov, Richardson flips a switch, releasing decoy flares from his jet’s countermeasures pod. “All four Linebacker aircraft acted within seconds. Suddenly Kirov was inside a box of blue-white magnesium light. Richardson pulled back on his stick, banking into a climbing turn past the battlecruiser.
“The brilliant light dazzled him, but he could see the graceful lines of the Soviet warship as she was turning hard on the choppy seas, her men running along the deck like ants.”
If we were serious, you’d all be dead now — get the message? Richardson thinks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 03, 2016, 08:39:55 PM

Finally, just to clarify on your logic: so if you were the leader of a nation that felt threatened by the world's largest and most modern standing army, you would allow them to establish a base inside your borders?


I don't see why you don't understand that maybe Russia doesn't fear the USA/NATO militarily that much...They know we aren't going to try to risk invading them.    Once you understand that point, it should be obvious that temporarily allowing a base in their territory didn't create much, if any risk to them, and since by your admission they received some pretty good benefits out of it..then the question is WHy not?   They scored some bucks, and kicked us out when it wasn't worth it to them any longer.


If you are using the fact that NATO temporarily had a military base in Russia as your foundation for saying that they aren't being surrounded, and put in a weaker position overall, then I think you need better evidence than the temporary military base in Russia.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 04, 2016, 12:08:01 AM

I don't see why you don't understand that maybe Russia doesn't fear the USA/NATO militarily that much...They know we aren't going to try to risk invading them.   

I see you've never been to Russia or watched Russian tv or discussed NATO   ;expanding' to Russia's borders as a threat.. Many Russians don't 'get' that it is mostly nations that have been occupied by former Moscow regimes and seek protection from aggression from Moscow. Ukraine was never interested in Nato membership - until Crimea..


Instead of coming across something on the internet - you might like to absorb what folks - who  know a deal more about how things are 'here'  - try to point out ...

Your efforts to 'play devil's advocate' are feeble and simply demonstrate 'cluelessness' about the Russian psyche upon which the current leadership play.

It's coming up to MAY 9th and the day Stalin set - even if it is two days late- to commemorate those who were sacrificed ... It is now illegal in Russian law to denigrate the Soviet war effort.

If I'm here - I was asked IF I'll go to watch the parades... I initially thought 'no' - as I felt such parades promote unthinking patriotism - then I remember that I've stood under  UK Flag to commemorate the fallen.

I do not see the need to demonstrate new war kit - I prefer how the Brits do it ... maybe a restored Spitfire/ Hurricane flying over..











Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 04, 2016, 01:37:09 AM
Quote
I don't see why you don't understand that maybe Russia doesn't fear the USA/NATO militarily that much


I see that you do not understand Russia at all. Come and visit sometime. To lessen your obvious ignorance I'd encourage you to visit a couple of buildings along Варварских Ворот and Старая Площадь (Old Square) just off the Kremlin, specifically buildings 4 and 8. Those house some of the most important staff of the Presidential Administration. You will not even get close to entering, but many of those folk are smokers and I'd suggest that you confront a few to find out what they think of the possibility of a looming war with the West.

You are far more naive than I originally assumed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 04, 2016, 02:08:47 AM
Quote
making Russia the bad guy is easy Propaganda as most Americans are simply stupid.
I sense that you are among friends, if that is the case.

Russia, specifically the government, is a bad guy--just ask most of Moscow's neighbors.

The USA is far from perfect, but I always find it fascinating that many of the same citizens on the street who buy into the propaganda, still dream of either visiting, or moving to, America.

Later this month I'm scheduled to have dinner with the director of one of the Radisson Hotels in Moscow. He has never been to the West, but he dreams of visiting the USA. He has never seen an American football game in person, but he is an avid NFL fan who can recite trivia, has an opinion on which players certain teams should pick in the draft, and during the season he knows the win-loss record for every team and even which coaches are in trouble. He loves soccer (real football) and hockey, but is an NFL addict. I will have some surprises for him (a few Cardinals items, and a couple of Bronco Super Bowl collectibles) when we meet.

He stays up nights (time zone differences) to watch the hacked games off television satellite systems.

Some months ago we were enjoying a breakfast meet-up, and he surprised me with the question of what the NFL does in time of war? It took a moment, but it revealed that he worried what would happen to some NFL stars should the USA and Russia kick off a world conflict. In that culture, every able bodied adult, especially athletic males, would be at the front lines in no time. I didn't know whether to openly chuckle (bad form among Russians) or give him a serious answer. I suppressed my natural reaction and tried to look serious for a moment before replying that I hope this never happens. On that we could agree.

I understand that some guys hate Russians these days, and I try to understand their frustration over the war in Eastern Ukraine, but I find much to admire and love in ordinary Russian people. For a time I was there in the East periodically, and it was deeply depressing. I had to learn quickly to figure out, very quickly, who was a coal miner with a gun, and who was a professional fighter stripped of Russian identification. For what it is worth, and this was especially true in the early stages of that war, the coal miners playing soldier were far more dangerous to me than the boys who had driven their tanks and BUK systems across the border while on holiday.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 04, 2016, 06:39:40 AM

I see that you do not understand Russia at all. Come and visit sometime. To lessen your obvious ignorance I'd encourage you to visit a couple of buildings along Варварских Ворот and Старая Площадь (Old Square) just off the Kremlin, specifically buildings 4 and 8. Those house some of the most important staff of the Presidential Administration. You will not even get close to entering, but many of those folk are smokers and I'd suggest that you confront a few to find out what they think of the possibility of a looming war with the West.

You are far more naive than I originally assumed.


So rather than explain your 'logic' regarding why NATO was allowed to briefly have military base within Russia, you have decided to ride on the 'naive' train again!  I have already provided the logic that Russia obviously wasn't THAT concerned about a military attack, or they wouldn't have permitted the base.  YOU have attempted to use that defunct base as a foundation for saying that it proves that Russia isn't at all concerned about NATO.  I hold the position that they are concerned about alliances like NATO, just not so much militarily, as the countries tend to stick together non-militarily and that can produce harm to Russia, as it is currently. 


My original point remains.  If you can explain how a former military base within Russia (which they received great benefit from) disproves that the West is trying to surround/dominate Russia as much as possible it would at least allow people to see where you are coming from.  So far the leap you made is on shaky ground. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: HoundDaddyLee on May 04, 2016, 06:57:12 AM


Some months ago we were enjoying a breakfast meet-up, and he surprised me with the question of what the NFL does in time of war? It took a moment, but it revealed that he worried what would happen to some NFL stars should the USA and Russia kick off a world conflict. In that culture, every able bodied adult, especially athletic males, would be at the front lines in no time. I didn't know whether to openly chuckle (bad form among Russians) or give him a serious answer. I suppressed my natural reaction and tried to look serious for a moment before replying that I hope this never happens. On that we could agree.





Mendy,


During WWII and the Korean war many professional baseball players served in the armed forces. Ted Williams flew planes during both conflicts. This had a negative impact on his lifetime playing statistics. NFL player, Pat Tillman, walked away from a promising NFL career to be join the army. He eventually went to Ranger school. He was killed in a friendly fire incident in Afghanistan in 2004.


I think we all pray that a total war between Russian and NATO never happens. But I would imagine many professional athletes would join and fight.


HDL
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 04, 2016, 08:19:51 AM

So rather than explain your 'logic' regarding why NATO was allowed to briefly have military base within Russia, you have decided to ride on the 'naive' train again!  I have already provided the logic that Russia obviously wasn't THAT concerned about a military attack, or they wouldn't have permitted the base.  YOU have attempted to use that defunct base as a foundation for saying that it proves that Russia isn't at all concerned about NATO.  I hold the position that they are concerned about alliances like NATO, just not so much militarily, as the countries tend to stick together non-militarily and that can produce harm to Russia, as it is currently. 


My original point remains.  If you can explain how a former military base within Russia (which they received great benefit from) disproves that the West is trying to surround/dominate Russia as much as possible it would at least allow people to see where you are coming from.  So far the leap you made is on shaky ground. 


Fathertime!


I understand him quite clearly.  Russia has used NATO as their whipping boy in this current crisis with their people.  (Someone has to be the bad boy.  For the Germans, it was the Jews.)  When the Ukrainian conflict started Russia proclaimed it was to protect the Russian speaking people in Ukraine.  This was the same reason used by the Germans when they went into the Sudetendland.  Logic would have dictated that after Krim, Russia would have secured its new territory and left Ukraine alone.  You stated this yourself in your WIN/WIN prognostication. 

But that was not enough.  Russia was losing the hearts and minds of its former Soviet Republic partners (minions) and wished to establish a zone of influence in Eastern Europe and Asia.  The reasons for this have all been discussed here to exhaustion.

Mendy is saying that NATO considered Russia a partner in Europe.  Russia attended NATO military meetings and, as stated, even invited NATO to maintain a base inside of Russia.   For awhile, it was even contemplated that the greater threat to peace was what the Chinese would do.    In that scenario, it would have been better if Russia were a member of NATO.  Tom Clancy even wrote a whimsical book about this scenario in which Russia joins NATO.  If you are interested, it is called:  "The Bear and the Dragon".

There are many mentions that Russia is upset that NATO violated tacit treaties in bringing the Baltics, Poland and other countries into NATO.  But Russia is all about posturing, especially now.  The Budapest Memorandum was signed to allow countries like Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus to surrender their nuclear weapons and still have protections of territorial integrity. Russia violated that Memorandum and signed assurance by annexing Krim.

But when you do something really naughty, the best thing to do to defend yourself is to say that you were provoked.  Russia has to claim the NATO is infringing (they are - but previously not in a confrontational way) by continuing to accept Eastern European countries.   In order to make this a bad thing, they have to scare the hell out of their people at home.

Below are highlights of joint cooperation which are included in the NATO website.  Note the non-belligerence leading up to the Ukrainian incursion:

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_50090.htm

Relations started after the end of the Cold War, when Russia joined the North Atlantic Cooperation Council (1991) and the Partnership for Peace programme (1994).

The 1997 NATO-Russia Founding Act provided the formal basis for relations.
Dialogue and cooperation were strengthened in 2002 with the establishment of the NATO-Russia Council (NRC) to serve as a forum for consultation on current security issues and to direct practical cooperation in a wide range of areas.

Russia's disproportionate military action in Georgia in August 2008 led to the suspension of formal meetings of the NRC and cooperation in some areas, until spring 2009. The Allies continue to call on Russia to reverse its recognition of the Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states.

All practical civilian and military cooperation under the NRC with Russia was suspended in April 2014 in response to the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

At the Wales Summit in September 2014, NATO leaders condemned Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine and demanded that Russia comply with international law and its international obligations and responsibilities; end its illegal and illegitimate occupation ‘annexation’ of Crimea; refrain from aggressive actions against Ukraine; withdraw its troops; halt the flow of weapons, equipment, people and money across the border to the separatists; and stop fomenting tension along and across the Ukrainian border.

In April 2016, almost two years after the last meeting of the NRC, NRC members agree to convene a meeting.


More background information

Response to the Russia-Ukraine conflict
Key areas of cooperation prior to April 2014
Framework for cooperation
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 04, 2016, 08:28:17 AM

I understand him quite clearly.  Russia has used NATO as their whipping boy in this current crisis with their people.  (Someone has to be the bad boy.  For the Germans, it was the Jews.)  When the Ukrainian conflict started Russia proclaimed it was to protect the Russian speaking people in Ukraine.  This was the same reason used by the Germans when they went into the Sudetendland.  Logic would have dictated that after Krim, Russia would have secured its new territory and left Ukraine alone.  You stated this yourself in your WIN/WIN prognostication. 

But that was not enough.  Russia was losing the hearts and minds of its former Soviet Republic partners (minions) and wished to establish a zone of influence in Eastern Europe and Asia.  The reasons for this have all been discussed here to exhaustion.

Mendy is saying that NATO considered Russia a partner in Europe.  Russia attended NATO military meetings and, as stated, even invited NATO to maintain a base inside of Russia.   For awhile, it was even contemplated that the greater threat to peace was what the Chinese would do.    In that scenario, it would have been better if Russia were a member of NATO.  Tom Clancy even wrote a whimsical book about this scenario in which Russia joins NATO.  If you are interested, it is called:  "The Bear and the Dragon".

There are many mentions that Russia is upset that NATO violated tacit treaties in bringing the Baltics, Poland and other countries into NATO.  But Russia is all about posturing, especially now.  The Budapest Memorandum was signed to allow countries like Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus to surrender their nuclear weapons and still have protections of territorial integrity. Russia violated that Memorandum and signed assurance by annexing Krim.

But when you do something really naughty, the best thing to do to defend yourself is to say that you were provoked.  Russia has to claim the NATO is infringing (they are - but previously not in a confrontational way) by continuing to accept Eastern European countries.   In order to make this a bad thing, they have to scare the hell out of their people at home.

Below are highlights of joint cooperation which are included in the NATO website.  Note the non-belligerence leading up to the Ukrainian incursion:

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_50090.htm (http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_50090.htm)

Relations started after the end of the Cold War, when Russia joined the North Atlantic Cooperation Council (1991) and the Partnership for Peace programme (1994).

The 1997 NATO-Russia Founding Act provided the formal basis for relations.
Dialogue and cooperation were strengthened in 2002 with the establishment of the NATO-Russia Council (NRC) to serve as a forum for consultation on current security issues and to direct practical cooperation in a wide range of areas.

Russia's disproportionate military action in Georgia in August 2008 led to the suspension of formal meetings of the NRC and cooperation in some areas, until spring 2009. The Allies continue to call on Russia to reverse its recognition of the Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states.

All practical civilian and military cooperation under the NRC with Russia was suspended in April 2014 in response to the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

At the Wales Summit in September 2014, NATO leaders condemned Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine and demanded that Russia comply with international law and its international obligations and responsibilities; end its illegal and illegitimate occupation ‘annexation’ of Crimea; refrain from aggressive actions against Ukraine; withdraw its troops; halt the flow of weapons, equipment, people and money across the border to the separatists; and stop fomenting tension along and across the Ukrainian border.

In April 2016, almost two years after the last meeting of the NRC, NRC members agree to convene a meeting.


More background information

Response to the Russia-Ukraine conflict
Key areas of cooperation prior to April 2014
Framework for cooperation


Appreciated the reasoned response. Time at the moment won't permit me to comment in dept for the time being.


I don't know that it fully addresses the precise comment regarding the temporary military base in Russia, but i'll await what Mendelelev  has to really say. 


Thanks,
Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 04, 2016, 10:00:01 AM

Appreciated the reasoned response. Time at the moment won't permit me to comment in dept for the time being.


I don't know that it fully addresses the precise comment regarding the temporary military base in Russia, but i'll await what Mendelelev  has to really say. 


Thanks,
Fathertime!


Jone's explanation was far better than any of my attempts to educate you.

On June 20, Russia was present, along with everyone else as scheduled in Brussels for the regular meeting of the NATO-Russia Council (NRC). It was the first time in two years, since the illegal annexation of Crimea, that the two sides had met formally, however since 1997, Russia has had a permanent representative at NATO.

Russia has formal observer status inside NATO--that has been just one part of NATO's attempt to assure Russia that NATO is not planning a conflict. Logic follows that if you are planning to conquer your neighbor, that you don't invite him to the planning sessions.

However, there are two problems with this logic. The first is as Jone explained, it is too easy to use NATO as a whipping boy to the audience back at home. In fact, do you suppose that the average Russian knows that Russia is a permanent member of this council? I will answer that for you: no, they do not.

The Kremlin needs to continue using NATO as a scapegoat for anything that goes wrong in Russia, like the incident several months ago when a building elevator malfunctioned. Because it had been built (years ago) in Germany, some Russian media outlet were suggesting that there might have been a NATO plot to kill Russians randomly with malfunctioning elevator lifts.

Do you imagine that the average Russian knows even a hint of the fact that the Kremlin signed off on the new structure (pictured below) of strategies for cooperation with NATO? No, because the Kremlin needs a whipping boy.

(http://russianreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/nato-russia-council.png?w=680)
The other difficulty with "logic" is that Russians do not always think like Westerners. Very often their "logic" is Eastern, which can be very different from Western norms. The old saying of "scratch a Russian and underneath you'll find a Tatar" is often very true.

Under this new structure, instead of meeting as "NATO + 1" (Russia was the 1), the new agreement is designed to give Russia more input into NATO activities. The new designation is called "at 29" as if Russia were the 29th member. Despite Russia's participation in and agreement to this new structure, the Russian defence ministry issued a statement that the meetings (while omitting the fact that Russia had participated) were provocative and dangerous.

Do you suppose that the average Russian knows that NATO has a permanent office in Moscow, on ул. Мытная adjacent to the Belgium Embassy? Despite the fact that Russia is deeper into NATO than they like to admit, there are many Kremlin insiders who are firmly convinced that NATO is up to something, and the fact that they can't identify that something makes them even more suspicious.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 04, 2016, 12:08:38 PM
Lets be honest both the U.S. (and by default NATO) nd Russia use each other for internal and external propaganda.

As for the illegal annexation of Crimea, tell that to Israel when they captured Jerusalem and made it their capitol. Israel will go to war and if necessary use Thermonuclear weapons before ever leaving Jerusalem. Get over it Crimea now belongs to Russia, are you really advocating going to war to get it back? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 04, 2016, 05:36:58 PM
More Bad news for Russia :crackwhip:

Spain finished 10 year probe into Russian mob connections. Arrest warrants were  issued for several of the Huilomeister's closest buddies. A former prime minister, its former defense minister, its current deputy prime minister, and the current chair of its legislature's finance committee are tied to the mob.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/04/spain-issues-arrest-warrants-for-russian-officials-close-to-putin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 04, 2016, 05:54:21 PM
More Bad news for Russia :crackwhip:

Spain finished 10 year probe into Russian mob connections. Arrest warrants were  issued for several of the Huilomeister's closest buddies. A former prime minister, its former defense minister, its current deputy prime minister, and the current chair of its legislature's finance committee are tied to the mob.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/04/spain-issues-arrest-warrants-for-russian-officials-close-to-putin

I would guess that it's yet another exercise in futility.  None of these people are likely to set foot outside Russia anyway, and an international arrest warrant should certainly stop them leaving home.  With Russia not allowing extradition of its citizens from their home soil, Spain appears to have simply created a stalemate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 04, 2016, 06:03:35 PM

 Time at the moment won't permit me to comment in dept for the time being.


Did you mean to say, I need to stall for time while I try to google up some fluff to paste here?
 :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 04, 2016, 07:29:08 PM
Eyes wide open!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 04, 2016, 08:00:30 PM
Portugal has put a stop in even more Russian mob money laundering. This time by buying football clubs and ownership thru offshore shell companies.  :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36203418
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 04, 2016, 09:19:31 PM
I see you've never been to Russia or watched Russian tv or discussed NATO   ;expanding' to Russia's borders as a threat.. Many Russians don't 'get' that it is mostly nations that have been occupied by former Moscow regimes and seek protection from aggression from Moscow. Ukraine was never interested in Nato membership - until Crimea..


Instead of coming across something on the internet - you might like to absorb what folks - who  know a deal more about how things are 'here'  - try to point out ...

Your efforts to 'play devil's advocate' are feeble and simply demonstrate 'cluelessness' about the Russian psyche upon which the current leadership play.

It's coming up to MAY 9th and the day Stalin set - even if it is two days late- to commemorate those who were sacrificed ... It is now illegal in Russian law to denigrate the Soviet war effort.

If I'm here - I was asked IF I'll go to watch the parades... I initially thought 'no' - as I felt such parades promote unthinking patriotism - then I remember that I've stood under  UK Flag to commemorate the fallen.

I do not see the need to demonstrate new war kit - I prefer how the Brits do it ... maybe a restored Spitfire/ Hurricane flying over..

Moby,

I was there last year the weekend before the anniversary.  If you went down to the mall in any city, there were memorials ongoing every day.  The St. George ribbons were everywhere.  I don't sense that same enthusiasm this year that I experienced last year.  Hopefully some people will be in situ and we can get reports. 

I live close to Torrance where parts of the Confederate Air Force reside.  On Memorial Day, it is wonderful to see the old birds fly.    I treasure that history much more than seeing the modern stuff.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 04, 2016, 09:24:00 PM
In a turn about from the soviet tradition of huge displays of military might, Belarus and K-stan have decided against the Defender of the Fatherland Day or Victory Day parades.

Are they pulling further away from the Stalin-like era that Russia is falling back into.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kazakhstan-not-to-hold-victory-day-parade/567902.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 04, 2016, 10:18:00 PM
I have now read and re-read both Jone's and Mendelelev's responses to the comment I made regarding the temporary NATO base in Russia, and how that military base was evidence that Russia isn't actually concerned about NATO. 


I still don't think that temporary military base provides evidence that Russia isn't concerned about NATO.  There may be other exhibits that show Russia isn't concerned about NATO, but that particular temporary base in which they received ample compensation for isn't evidence.  The base didn't pose any real threat to Russia.  Russia has nuclear weapons, and that is enough of a disincentive as is needed....But NATO nations can and do still align, and that can be problematic for Russia, but I don't think they actually worry about an invasion.   


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 04, 2016, 11:46:29 PM
I don't think they actually worry about an invasion.   




There you go - proof positive this guy simply doesn't HAVE a clue about how Russians feel about NATO expansion...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 05, 2016, 01:22:13 AM
In a prior post above I wrote:
Quote
On June 20, Russia was present, along with everyone else as scheduled in Brussels for the regular meeting of the NATO-Russia Council (NRC).


That meeting was April 20. My apologies for the typo.



Quote
Get over it Crimea now belongs to Russia, are you really advocating going to war to get it back?


Kindly point out where I have advocated going to war to get it back.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 05, 2016, 01:27:42 AM
I have now read and re-read both Jone's and Mendelelev's responses to the comment I made regarding the temporary NATO base in Russia, and how that military base was evidence that Russia isn't actually concerned about NATO. 


I still don't think that temporary military base provides evidence that Russia isn't concerned about NATO.  There may be other exhibits that show Russia isn't concerned about NATO, but that particular temporary base in which they received ample compensation for isn't evidence.  The base didn't pose any real threat to Russia.  Russia has nuclear weapons, and that is enough of a disincentive as is needed....But NATO nations can and do still align, and that can be problematic for Russia, but I don't think they actually worry about an invasion.   


Fathertime!



Temporary? The proposal by the Kremlin for contracts allowing certain companies exclusive rights to maintain the base and NATO aircraft was anything but temporary.

FT, the contract for a NATO base inside was meant to be a quiet affair, likely "off budget" so that certain parties could financially benefit, much like the cost overruns and shady accounting surrounding Sochi.

The plug was pulled because the Russian media, then still quasi independent before the restrictions and restructuring, had begun to make the base a story. That obviously ran counter to the notion that "NATO is out to destroy us" and not only helped end the relationship, but gave Putin the ammunition needed for his crackdown on media outlets.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 05, 2016, 05:01:18 AM


Temporary? The proposal by the Kremlin for contracts allowing certain companies exclusive rights to maintain the base and NATO aircraft was anything but temporary.

FT, the contract for a NATO base inside was meant to be a quiet affair, likely "off budget" so that certain parties could financially benefit, much like the cost overruns and shady accounting surrounding Sochi.

The plug was pulled because the Russian media, then still quasi independent before the restrictions and restructuring, had begun to make the base a story. That obviously ran counter to the notion that "NATO is out to destroy us" and not only helped end the relationship, but gave Putin the ammunition needed for his crackdown on media outlets.


All of what you say may be true...BUT I still don't see how having the NATO base, which wound up being temporary, provides evidence that Russia isn't concerned about NATO.  Even silly Moby is now stating with adamantly that they are terrified of NATO!  :D


Healthy benefits for some Russians were received for a military base that posed no threat to the sovereignty of Russia.  This base, doesn't provide evidence that Russia isn't concerned about what NATO can do, I just don't think leadership is very concerned that NATO is going to invade Russia.  What leadership says to their people may be a different story of course.  Our representatives here say all sorts of mistruths to the people also. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 05, 2016, 05:10:53 AM
Even silly Moby is now stating with adamantly that they are terrified of NATO!  :D

No, 'silly Moby' has lived / worked  amongst Russians / Ukrainians, etc., for 14 years and understands better than the 'internet surfer' who's never been here...

I spoke of 'paranoia' - of being invaded - again. The Kremlin talks up the threat - whilst engaging in regime changing, supporting dictators... 'NATO's'  sins' ...

Carry on twisting my words and demonstrating your 'grasp' of the situation .... I have a 'master' here - sorting out our non-functioning home internet / iptv - what's your excuse for not cuddling up in the sack with a loved one and posting daft on here ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 05, 2016, 05:33:30 AM
No, 'silly Moby' has lived / worked  amongst Russians / Ukrainians, etc., for 14 years and understands better than the 'internet surfer' who's never been here...

I spoke of 'paranoia' - of being invaded - again. The Kremlin talks up the threat - whilst engaging in regime changing, supporting dictators... 'NATO's'  sins' ...

Carry on twisting my words and demonstrating your 'grasp' of the situation .... I have a 'master' here - sorting out our non-functioning home internet / iptv - what's your excuse for not cuddling up in the sack with a loved one and posting daft on here ?


Poor guy, now whining about 'twisting words'...It twas you that joined in the conversion, and began by twisting yourself!   ;D


Sounds like you also believe that the NATO base posed no actual threat!


Fathertime!   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 05, 2016, 05:42:45 AM

Poor guy, now whining about 'twisting words'...It twas you that joined in the conversion, and began by twisting yourself!   ;D


Sounds like you also believe that the NATO base posed no actual threat!


Nice attempt at a dodge - but I have 'your number', now

I'm the guy pointing out you're clueless about about how Russian [ previously most Ukrainian people ] think out NATO - a 'threat' ..

Mendy raised the base - please don't get confused about which guy is having a 'larf at your expense ..

I guess you prefer to troll at night ...

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 05, 2016, 05:50:48 AM
Nice attempt at a dodge - but I have 'your number', now

I'm the guy pointing out you're clueless about about how Russian [ previously most Ukrainian people ] think out NATO - a 'threat' ..

Mendy raised the base - please don't get confused about which guy is having a 'larf at your expense ..

I guess you prefer to troll at night ...


Haha,  so far as much as it must dismay you, you have agreed with the earlier point made regarding the NATO military base not being a threat, as an invasion of Russia isn't happening!  What the everyday people are being told is a different story.  So in that respect it made sense for Russia to permit the base, and receive what it could out of it.  It is humorous that you are all up at arms and think this is 'trolling'.  It tis only you that is angrily trolling!


Perhaps you could go on and discuss your all-important 'master' and internet woes some more.  That is a critical aspect to the discussion!   :D


Fathertime!





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 05, 2016, 06:10:27 AM

Haha,  so far as much as it must dismay you, you have agreed with the earlier point made regarding the NATO military base not being a threat,


Once again - your sleep deprived trolling has you confused - that 'response' is for Mendy..




Perhaps you could go on and discuss your all-important 'master' and internet woes some more.  That is a critical aspect to the discussion!   :D




Once again a dodge on your part - I took you up on your clueless grasp of the psyche of most Russians and the Kremlin playing on this ....

Perhaps you should cuddle up to your good lady and respond after a good night's sleep .... you are just providing 'sport'...

Problem sorted - off to the sea-front  ..master#1# called for help and having a guy at both ends



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 05, 2016, 06:38:54 AM

Once again - your sleep deprived trolling has you confused - that 'response' is for Mendy..




I think it is YOU that is confused, my sleep has been good enough!



Once again a dodge on your part - I took you up on your clueless grasp of the psyche of most Russians and the Kremlin playing on this ....

Perhaps you should cuddle up to your good lady and respond after a good night's sleep .... you are just providing 'sport'...

Problem sorted - off to the sea-front  ..master#1# called for help and having a guy at both ends - problem sorted.


There is nothing to dodge!  Whether you like it or not, you have agreed with my earlier point, which is that NATO for a short period having a military base in Russia does not provide evidence that Russia isn't concerned about NATO, they just felt the base was no threat, and reaped the benefits from having it.  I didn't comment on the 'psych' of  regular Russians, but if I did, I wouldn't take your word as anything important, it has been apparent that you don't have the greatest grasp on things generally anyway! 


I'm glad your 'master' has solved your important internet problems, now you are free to go sun bathe at the ocean.   


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 05, 2016, 08:47:28 AM
I, quite honestly, don't know what the fuss is about! 

Mendy was pointing out that the NATO base inside of Russia demonstrated the good will between Russia and NATO (which I further elaborated on).    While there may have been discomfort in Russia that so many of the former Soviet Republics and client states were joining NATO, Russia was demonstrating the same sort of cooperation.  And special dispensation was made to Russia, encouraging Russia never to become the 'bad guy' again.  It is all well documented.

Then Russia invades Ukraine and brings war back to Eastern Europe.  In the Russian media, instead of saying that Russia was the bad guy, Russia first points to the Neo Nazis in Kyiv.  That is well documented.  Then Ukraine elects new leadership and it is evident that there is no such Neo Nazi movement in Kyiv.   During this same time, Russia claims that the CIA is responsible for Maidan and that the entire operation was designed to destabilize Russia.  This was at the same time all of the world's athletes were competing in Sochi during the winter Olympics.  (Does anyone see the absurdity of all of this?)

So how is Russia to sell the continuing conflagration in Ukraine, the increased Military build up, the new bases on the borders of former allies?  Encroachment by NATO, of course!   (Those BASTIDS!)  Throw in a couple of beheadings by ISIS, in full view, on the Russian TV stations and you've got a riled up population. 

This is pretty elementary stuff.  I'm sure anyone can go over to another forum and they will tell you that this is not what happened.  But for discerning minds, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 05, 2016, 09:06:23 AM
the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

Actually the shortest distance between 2 points is zero. Simply fold the 2 points so that they are across from each other and punch a hole through to the second point.

Is there really any good guys today or are all of the players using each other and colluding to some extent for their own gain?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 05, 2016, 09:17:34 AM
Yeah, and if a Frog had Wings, it wouldn't womp its ass every time it hopped.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 05, 2016, 08:52:21 PM
In keeping with their bullying tactics against smaller neighbors that might want the protection of NATO like many former states of the FSU have already done.

"Russia Issues Fresh Threats Against Unaligned Nordic States"

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/2016/05/05/russia-issues-fresh-threats-against-unaligned-nordic-states/83959852/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on May 05, 2016, 11:23:18 PM
lot of energy and effort going into feeding the forum proffesional debaters tp & ft

total waste of time

but i aplaude the efforts of those trying to educate them and others

fancy anyone thinking russians are not worried about NATO potentially invading ???? ;D ;D ;D ;D
or that russia is an innocent fluffy little white rabbit that is totally at risk by the big bad wolf like neighbours on its borders lol  :D :D :D :D :D

SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 05, 2016, 11:39:38 PM
lot of energy and effort going into feeding the forum proffesional debaters tp & ft

total waste of time

but i aplaude the efforts of those trying to educate them and others

SX

 :deadhorse: :cluebat: :wallbash: :thumbsup: :applause:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 06, 2016, 03:39:14 AM
lot of energy and effort going into feeding the forum proffesional debaters tp & ft

total waste of time

but i aplaude the efforts of those trying to educate them and others

fancy anyone thinking russians are not worried about NATO potentially invading ???? ;D ;D ;D ;D
or that russia is an innocent fluffy little white rabbit that is totally at risk by the big bad wolf like neighbours on its borders lol  :D :D :D :D :D

SX

in the end it's all just a huge game of 'tit for tat' where the first tit is a chicken or egg first argument that will never get resolved.

The only productive way would be for NATO and RU to accept the current status quo moving forward.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 06, 2016, 04:05:56 AM
in the end it's all just a huge game of 'tit for tat' where the first tit is a chicken or egg first argument that will never get resolved.

The only productive way would be for NATO and RU to accept the current status quo moving forward.

You can add yourself to the clueless list.
Your comment again shows how little idea you have-just ridiculous-and ignorant.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 06, 2016, 04:08:55 AM
Hmmm,

JayH

I might not agree with all BC's conclusions - but he does have 'a clue' ....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 06, 2016, 04:24:30 AM
You can add yourself to the clueless list.
Your comment again shows how little idea you have-just ridiculous-and ignorant.

Yeah right.. lol

http://books.google.it/books?id=PFv9Ofn-myoC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=
nato+assures+Russia+not+encroaching+baltic&source=bl&ots=
v2bP5EYQTw&sig=nuH8ink8MoZA6vvLOmZkwEIbZpA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=
0ahUKEwiIp4n1-8TMAhVBKsAKHTKqBYgQ6AEIKDAC#v=onepage&q=
nato%20assures%20Russia%20not%20encroaching%20baltic&f=false

start at page 154, read and comprehend.


Link edited so as to not affect reading pane - Anonmod
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 06, 2016, 06:40:15 AM
http://southfront.org/foreign-policy-diary-donbass-further-escalation-of-violence/ (http://southfront.org/foreign-policy-diary-donbass-further-escalation-of-violence/)

As I said things are very likely to go hot very quickly.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 06, 2016, 06:55:07 AM
I, quite honestly, don't know what the fuss is about! 

Mendy was pointing out that the NATO base inside of Russia demonstrated the good will between Russia and NATO (which I further elaborated on).   


I have posted below the quote so with all due respect you are completely white washing what mendeleyev stated and why.  He was NOT providing an example of the 'good will' between the nations, he was attempting to criticize Russia/Putin.  Of course this is not a problem, that what discussion is about, BUT I was pointing out the flaw in the logic contained in his post.   


He has stated that the NATO base within Russia demonstrates the "Lie of the aggressive West'   I say that the base provides zero evidence that the West hasn't been aggressive, because the base was of no threat to Russia, it provided money, and other favors to Russia, and was shoved off when it became even a minor problem.  I'm just not seeing how having what was a temporary military base in Russia proves that the West isn't being aggressive in other areas, which I believe they are. 






After the election of 2012, Putin made a gesture to the West by allowing NATO to have a base INSIDE Russia. Of course, high rent was a part of the deal, but it turned to a lie the idea that Russia was being surrounded by aggressive West out to dominate Moscow & Co. Oh, and part of the deal included Washington recognizing a flawed 2012 election that returned Putin to power.

There were some quirks in the NATO base: Putin soon insisted that companies run by Oligarchs, instead of NATO personnel, have exclusive access to maintenance of NATO planes, for example. That went over in DC and Brussels like a lead balloon, and when Russian media (then still independent) began to inform the Russia public about a NATO base inside Russia, it didn't take long for the deal to end. Today, the old story of "NATO is trying to surround us" is back, and it seems that nationalism trumps reality these days.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 06, 2016, 07:11:19 AM
in the end it's all just a huge game of 'tit for tat' where the first tit is a chicken or egg first argument that will never get resolved.

The only productive way would be for NATO and RU to accept the current status quo moving forward.


It is humorous how some only want to see what they want to see, and ignore, and fuss about anything that doesn't coincide with their warped world view!


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 06, 2016, 08:46:41 AM
in the end it's all just a huge game of 'tit for tat' where the first tit is a chicken or egg first argument that will never get resolved.

The only productive way would be for NATO and RU to accept the current status quo moving forward.

The whole NATO movement was to make Russian a cooperating partner.  There was even talk of disbanding NATO because it had completed its purpose - Russia was no longer a belligerent.    While Russia did not like the Status Quo, it was playing the game, making moves within the diplomatic framework.  Then, along comes a former Republic that Russia tries to bribe into changing its foreign policy course - remember that Yanu was President when Ukraine was going to first sign the affiliation agreement with the EU.  Russia could not accept this happening because if Ukraine was not in Putin's Eurasian Union, then such a union would be toothless.  So, Maidan happens and Russia creates a hybrid war on Ukraine's soil.

None of this had anything to do, directly, with NATO.  But all of a sudden, countries are looking to NATO to prevent that same type of Hybrid War operation on their soil.  NATO had purpose again.

As we have previously discussed, there were other things happening that proved that Russia and NATO were cooperating prior to Maidan.     But war in Eastern Europe once again set the table for aggressive negotiations.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 06, 2016, 08:50:01 AM

It is humorous how some only want to see what they want to see, and ignore, and fuss about anything that doesn't coincide with their warped world view!


Fathertime!


No irony spotted....?...)Really ?)



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 06, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
Quote
It is humorous how some only want to see what they want to see


There is a very big difference between someone who has experienced the life, and a person who has opinions but no experience in the subject.

You are right, I do SEE.

You have yet to do that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 06, 2016, 11:37:19 PM

You are right, I do SEE.

You have yet to do that.


I SEE too!  And what I see is that your earlier quoted post didn't make logical sense, you have had opportunities to explain it further, but what I SEE currently is that instead of doing that, you are in essence saying that I shouldn't be commenting on what you said.   That can be called deflection. 


So how does what amounted to a temporary NATO military base in Russia, which provided Russia real benefits, prove that the West isn't aggressive or surrounding Russia?  I SEE flawed logic in what you said, but perhaps you are holding back a more rational explanation. 




Fathertime!   




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on May 06, 2016, 11:44:25 PM
http://southfront.org/foreign-policy-diary-donbass-further-escalation-of-violence/ (http://southfront.org/foreign-policy-diary-donbass-further-escalation-of-violence/)

As I said things are very likely to go hot very quickly.

What a bunch of moskal anti-Ukraine propaganda! The server for southfront.org is in Belize...too ashamed of their neo-imperialist and mobbed-up Putinista connections?

http://www.rferl.org/content/podcast-all-mobbed-up-russia-putin-mafia/27717810.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 07, 2016, 12:01:23 AM

I SEE too! 

Nope, you have seen / read about it in various forms of media..

NOTHING beats having been there ...

My 'beef' with you was not understanding how Russian's 'fear' of invasion is being played on ...... So don't bring up the NATO base, again ... :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 07, 2016, 12:18:48 AM

My 'beef' with you was not understanding how Russian's 'fear' of invasion is being played on ...... So don't bring up the NATO base, again ... :D


I don't suspect the leadership fears an invasion of Russia, and it was the leadership that decided to permit the NATO military base because they knew they could contain it...I still don't see how all this is proof that Russia isn't being surrounded by an aggressive West. 


Nope, you have seen / read about it in various forms of media..

NOTHING beats having been there ...

In 12 hours I'll be outside the USA...but I don't suspect that makes my opinion of the countries I am in as being so bulletproof that it can't be questioned by ANYBODY  who wants to!   If I were to exercise a strong opinion, I'd expect to hear something about it. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 07, 2016, 01:26:22 AM
Quote from: moby
My 'beef' with you was not understanding how Russian's 'fear' of invasion is being played on ...... So don't bring up the NATO base, again ... :D


I don't suspect the leadership fears an invasion of Russia

Thanks for demonstrating why it is not possible to 'debate' with someone who persists in responding to MENDY's point ..

Clue.. I took you up on not understanding how Russian people think - not the regime ..

I don't suspect that makes my opinion of the countries I am in as being so bulletproof that it can't be questioned by ANYBODY  who wants to!   If I were to exercise a strong opinion, I'd expect to hear something about it. 



You have...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 07, 2016, 04:02:07 AM
Thanks for demonstrating why it is not possible to 'debate' with someone who persists in responding to MENDY's point ..

Clue.. I took you up on not understanding how Russian people think - not the regime ..

You have...


You are simply making things up.  The discussion about a military base did not pertain to the 'Russian people'..the leadership was making the decisions and I don't believe are fearful of Russia being invaded...The point I was making... that should have been obvious as they are the ones making the decisions regarding the military base.


 Get a clue, so you can add something to the points being made, not a point that nobody made!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 07, 2016, 04:33:39 AM

You are simply making things up. 

I'm quoting your words...

The discussion about a military base did not pertain to the 'Russian people'..

Sighs, it seems I must lead you by the nose ... I pointed out that the Kremlin prey on Russians' fear of invasion ...Mendy brought up the base ..two different points ... I pointed out you couldn't comprehend - try to justify this paranoia without having been here.....[Russia]

I hope your memory issues will be resolved, soon



 Get a clue, so you can add something to the points being made, not a point that nobody made!





 :D That's my laughing at your missing the irony - once more...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 07, 2016, 04:44:06 AM
I'm quoting your words...

Sighs, it seems I must lead you by the nose ... I pointed out that the Kremlin prey on Russians' fear of invasion ...Mendy brought up the base ..two different points ... I pointed out you couldn't comprehend - try to justify this paranoia without having been here.....[Russia]

I hope your memory issues will be resolved, soon


 :D That's my laughing at your missing the irony - once more...


I guess I'm discussing something with a person who hasn't learned to think very clearly. 




To the point I was addressing that Mendeleyev made...I don't see how having the NATO military base proves that the west isn't aggressive and surrounding Russia.  It is obvious that the Russian leadership isn't too concerned about an invasion.  It is also obvious that the Russian people probably feel differently.  None of this changes, the point I made and hasn't been addressed:
 How does the former NATO military base prove that the West hasn't been aggressive and surrounding Russia?


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 07, 2016, 05:06:02 AM

I guess I'm discussing something with a person who hasn't learned to think very clearly. 

Isn't it amazing ... you keep expressing my thoughts about your good self..the irony keeps passing over your head..



To the point I was addressing that Mendeleyev made...

I keep trying to tell you - address THAT to HIM .. 




In the meantime



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 07, 2016, 05:12:59 AM
Isn't it amazing ... you keep expressing my thoughts about your good self..the irony keeps passing over your head..

yes yes...'the irony'...haha...



I keep trying to tell you - address THAT to HIM .. 


I have addressed that point to mendeleyev, and really anyone else who would like to discuss. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 07, 2016, 09:22:56 AM

I have addressed that point to mendeleyev, and really anyone else who would like to discuss. 



..and deflected from mine... constantly telling me  what you said to Mendy - like I was interested..

I know now - you had no answer to my point and hoped to bore the readers.




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 07, 2016, 12:52:47 PM
4 Russian Gold Medals from the Sochi Olympics are due to steroid doping according to Vitaly Stepanov. More to come on "60 Minutes" a CBS news program.

 http://www.rferl.org/content/report-charges-four-russian-gold-medalist-sochi-olympics-took-steriods-cbs-60-minutes-stepanov/27720872.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 07, 2016, 03:35:27 PM
..and deflected from mine... constantly telling me  what you said to Mendy - like I was interested..

I know now - you had no answer to my point and hoped to bore the readers.


I don't even know what your point was/is.  If there is something you would like to say, that I can clarify, I'd be delighted to.  Just fire away!


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 07, 2016, 07:15:35 PM
There is a very big difference between someone who has experienced the life, and a person who has opinions but no experience in the subject.


In 12 hours I'll be outside the USA...


FT is finally listening to Mendy and making a trip to the FSU to gain some real life experience on the topic of his fluff opinions.

 :thumbsup:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 07, 2016, 07:43:20 PM
FT is finally listening to Mendy and making a trip to the FSU to gain some real life experience on the topic of his fluff opinions.

 :thumbsup:

Somehow I doubt it.  He's far more likely to be going to South America to visit his in-laws.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 07, 2016, 11:55:01 PM

I don't even know what your point was/is. 



EXACTLY..

I have mentioned it several times - clue -Russian paranoia of invasion being used by the Kremlin to provoke  negative views towards nations seeking NATO membership..

A troll tactic is to attack the poster rather than discuss the subject - you even forgot the subject that got you in the circle  :D

Further hint ... I wondered how you were in a position to understand having never been to Russia - not seeing / understanding the state media or media controlled by bessie mates' of the state .... and questioning how you could comprehend the ease upon which such fears were played ?

If you read a post - properly -- before knee-jerk responses - one might believe you were interested in debate / learning...  You.. you kept telling me about a Nato base in Russia - which I never raised and pointed out 3 rimes..I even told you that you should respond to the poster that had ...Mendy

In conclusion - being charitable - I suggest you are inattentive and unworthy of my time.  I have said this before - but my generous side kept saying, the guy is receptive to learning / understanding

It is impossible to debate with a guy who admits he forgot how he arrived at such a situation - having been given plenty of clues..

I apologise if you have reading comprehension difficulties - then I could understand.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 08, 2016, 04:30:23 AM
EXACTLY..

I have mentioned it several times - clue -Russian paranoia of invasion being used by the Kremlin to provoke  negative views towards nations seeking NATO membership..



What a stupid post!


The issue you raised was addressed, but not in great depth, because it was a 1st grade conclusion, and I didn't disagree with it.


As far as travel goes, I don't think your sunbathing travels to Russia taught you very much, but if you want to use it as 'currency' you obviously can! It is not going to substitute for common sense. 



It is impossible to debate with a guy who admits he forgot how he arrived at such a situation - having been given plenty of clues..



As I mentioned earlier, I didn't realize the earlier point was SOOO important to you! As it turns out, I had already addressed it earlier.  It is YOU that is proving to be a little muddled up mentally.  If there was a point to discuss, I was/am willing to do so, but I've already expressed myself on this particular point, and you must have just not liked the response. 


Fathertime! 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 08, 2016, 04:38:17 AM


The issue you raised was addressed, but not in great depth, because it was a 1st grade conclusion, and I didn't disagree with it.

Ah, 'excuse me'... either I have reading difficulties or it took you upteen posts and many reminders to get a VALID response...

This poster keeps forgetting you penchant for floundering around for valid ripostes and is on the beach enjoying quality time with loved ones..You have now exceeded your daily allowance for my attention...

Bon voyage...


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 08, 2016, 04:43:09 AM
Ah, 'excuse me'... either I have reading difficulties or it took you upteen posts and many reminders to get a VALOD response...



I actually have no idea what you are referring to...that is the truth.  If there was a subject that actually needed a response, I'd have responded. 



This poster keeps forgetting you penchant for floundering around for valid ripostes and is on the beach enjoying quality time with loved ones..You have now exceeded your daily allowance for my attention...

Bon voyage...



Oh come on!  I'm sure you dredge up something recent to disagree with me on!  I've made lots of debatable posts. 


Well, enjoy your day in the sun then.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 08, 2016, 03:40:46 PM
http://southfront.org/foreign-policy-diary-donbass-further-escalation-of-violence/ (http://southfront.org/foreign-policy-diary-donbass-further-escalation-of-violence/)

As I said things are very likely to go hot very quickly.


This is hardly newsworthy.  This is typical, and has been with every ceasefire.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 08, 2016, 03:52:16 PM

I SEE too!  And what I see is that your earlier quoted post didn't make logical sense, you have had opportunities to explain it further, but what I SEE currently is that instead of doing that, you are in essence saying that I shouldn't be commenting on what you said.   That can be called deflection. 


So how does what amounted to a temporary NATO military base in Russia, which provided Russia real benefits, prove that the West isn't aggressive or surrounding Russia?  I SEE flawed logic in what you said, but perhaps you are holding back a more rational explanation. 




Fathertime!

Russia met with NATO a couple of weeks ago, the first time in two years.

Russian leaders have never felt threatened by NATO.  By America, yes.  By NATO, no.  The sale of NATO as a threat is to enable the Russian leadership to rebuild its armed forces, which takes precious resources from other pressing domestic matters, such as housing, hospitals, and roads.  The breakdown and Russia's "fear" of NATO coincided with their invasion of Georgia.  Coincidence?

Someone upthread stated that the US promised NATO would not expand into Eastern Europe.  That is not accurate.  Gorbachev stated that, as has Lavrov, but the Americans dispute this, and there is no proof that such a promise was ever made.  What is NATO to do when the Poles, Lithuanians, Estonians, etc., who have been occupied quite brutally by the Russians, ask for NATO protection?

NATO has never been a threat to Russia.  The IMF and the US did many things on the collapse of the USSR which prolonged the pain of Russians, primarily by insisting on Jeffrey Sach's "shock therapy", which resulted in complete economic collapse.  A better path would have been the one followed by Poland (which also implemented shock therapy, but in a very different way).  However, other factors also caused Russia's problems, including the continued Duma power of former commies who stymied real reform at every turn, yearning for a return to the rotten system that ensured their complete hegemony.  Furthermore, unlike Poland, Russia had no historical tradition of democracy, and the authoritarian nature of its central government continues unabated.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on May 08, 2016, 06:33:38 PM
What is NATO to do when the Poles, Lithuanians, Estonians, etc., who have been occupied quite brutally by the Russians, ask for NATO protection?

Interesting question.

1. Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia

While they are NATO members it would be difficult for NATO put significant land forces there to stop a full-fledged Russian invasion. There are probably enough ethnic Russians within those countries for Russia to use as a pretext for invasion. And Russia could lie, as it did about its invasion of Ukraine, and send in Russian troops with their insignia removed.

All three of the Baltic Republics are very small and have very small militaries. A full-fledged Russian invasion could be over before NATO could do much about it. NATO could use air power to slow such an invasion down though.

2. Poland

I don't think Putin is reckless enough to invade Poland. Poland has a large and fairly effective military. A Russian invasion would be much more difficult than its incursion into Eastern Ukraine, even without NATO assistance. And I think NATO would send member forces to help Poland repel a Russian invasion.

It would be much easier for the large NATO members to get land forces into Poland than it would be to get them into the Baltic Republics.

The Putin administration can lie with impunity to the Russian people to cover up the deaths of a few hundred or a few thousand dead Russian soldiers, as it did to cover up its invasion of Eastern Ukraine. But this would be much harder to do if 20-30,000 Russians die in Poland.

Furthermore, it's not likely that Russia has enough money to sustain a long war in Poland. Modern warfare costs a lot.  Russia's economy is not doing well.  If the costs of a major war cause it to really tank perhaps even the fanatically patriotic Russian citizens will stop their support of the government.  I think Russia still has a draft. A lot of parents of boys might react badly to sending their sons to risk dying in a foreign war that did not have to be fought. Governments have fallen for such reasons.

I know that I've said that the average Russian would full-throatedly defend Russia's government even if he were living in a three foot slit trench with a sheet of plastic to keep out the snow and rain and only a potato and half a head of molding cabbage to eat. But this is a slight exaggeration.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on May 08, 2016, 06:41:16 PM
Agree Larry.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 09, 2016, 06:31:17 AM
Obama Requests Support for Possible War Against RussiaU.S. President Barack Obama is “demanding the active deployment of the Bundeswehr [Germany’s armed forces, including their Army, Navy, and Air Force] to NATO’s eastern borders” at Poland and the Baltic republics, to join the quadrupling of America’s forces there, on and near those borders of Russia. (This is an extreme violation of what Russian leader Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to when he ended the Soviet Union and its NATO-mirror organization the Warsaw Pact, but it’s actually culminating a process that began shortly after he agreed to America’s terms, which included that NATO “not move one inch to the east.”)

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/04/obama-requests-support-possible-war-russia.html (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/04/obama-requests-support-possible-war-russia.html)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-requests-eu-support-for-possible-war-against-russia/5521560 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-requests-eu-support-for-possible-war-against-russia/5521560)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 09, 2016, 07:36:12 AM
TP, I had to laugh at that first link. It is so beyond silly that I hope you only posted it in jest.

For example, the idea that Russia was protecting Crimeans from US takeover almost made me spill my tea! The article would be funny were it not truly pathetic.


Another example:

Quote
Right after Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia, Obama slapped sanctions against Russia (even though Western-sponsored polls in Crimea, both before and after the coup, had shown higher than 90% support by Crimeans for rejoining with Russia), and nuclear weapons were prepared, both on the U.S.-EU side and on the Russian side, for a possible nuclear war.


Here is the truth about the Crimean referendum:

- Unmarked Russian forces stormed the pro-Russian parliament, disbanded it, and then appointed new leadership. That is the only "coup" that took place in Ukraine that year.

- The Kremlin had done extensive polling for months prior to annexation of Ukraine. They had a majority, but not as overwhelming as your boys suggest. That is why Crimean citizens who showed up at the polls were turned away if they only had Ukrainian passports.

- These guys you link are so stupid that they believe it was a legitimate election. What is legit about a referendum that only included two questions, but neither of the two questions gave voters the option to remain as part of Ukraine?! The only two options were to leave Ukraine and join the Russian Federation, or to leave Ukraine and appeal to the RF for protective status.

Even Russian opposition nationalists like Alexi Navalny who applaud the annexation, agree that the referendum was illegitimate, saying that a real referendum should be conducted in the near future.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 09, 2016, 08:38:07 AM
TP, I had to laugh at that first link. It is so beyond silly that I hope you only posted it in jest.

For example, the idea that Russia was protecting Crimeans from US takeover almost made me spill my tea! The article would be funny were it not truly pathetic.


Another example:


Here is the truth about the Crimean referendum:

- Unmarked Russian forces stormed the pro-Russian parliament, disbanded it, and then appointed new leadership. That is the only "coup" that took place in Ukraine that year.

- The Kremlin had done extensive polling for months prior to annexation of Ukraine. They had a majority, but not as overwhelming as your boys suggest. That is why Crimean citizens who showed up at the polls were turned away if they only had Ukrainian passports.

- These guys you link are so stupid that they believe it was a legitimate election. What is legit about a referendum that only included two questions, but neither of the two questions gave voters the option to remain as part of Ukraine?! The only two options were to leave Ukraine and join the Russian Federation, or to leave Ukraine and appeal to the RF for protective status.

Even Russian opposition nationalists like Alexi Navalny who applaud the annexation, agree that the referendum was illegitimate, saying that a real referendum should be conducted in the near future.

Reality check: Russia now controls the Crimea, Russia is not going to give it back. Everything else is a mute point. Who was right and who was wrong is immaterial any more.

Russia intends to keep Crimea and will use all necessary force of arms to keep it.

Ukraine cannot win a war against Russia to reclaim the Crimean territory and the west will not risk Thermonuclear War with Russia.

Ergo Crimea is now part of Russia. Argument over, case closed. Time to move on.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on May 09, 2016, 08:54:24 AM
Great analysis Larry.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on May 09, 2016, 08:56:35 AM
Reality check: Russia now controls the Crimea, Russia is not going to give it back. Everything else is a mute point. Who was right and who was wrong is immaterial any more.

Russia intends to keep Crimea and will use all necessary force of arms to keep it.

Ukraine cannot win a war against Russia to reclaim the Crimean territory and the west will not risk Thermonuclear War with Russia.

Ergo Crimea is now part of Russia. Argument over, case closed. Time to move on.


Eventually, Ukraine will beg the US and NATO to prevent Russia from ceding Crimea back to them.


I think the Tatars will be the eventual owners.


Nice to see you back, Bo.  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on May 09, 2016, 09:10:45 AM

TP, I had to laugh at that first link. It is so beyond silly that I hope you only posted it in jest.


Mendy, reviewing the organizations that were the sources of TP's latest two links, i.e., "Washington's Blog", and "Global Research", reveals that TP is simply a propaganda pushing troll for the Putin-led imperialist resurgence of Muscovy. Everybody, check out the hilariously and transparently anti-West nature of these two supposedly western think tanks, with American servers. TP, if this is the best you can do for your moskali masters, you had better give it up and go over to Manny's RUA for joyful anti-West and anti-Ukraine posting. He and Andrewfi will welcome you with open arms, St. George's ribbons, and a basket of double-headed eagles. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on May 09, 2016, 09:16:16 AM
Great analysis Larry.

Thanks Muzh
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on May 09, 2016, 09:33:48 AM
Mendy, reviewing the organizations that were the sources of TP's latest two links, i.e., "Washington's Blog", and "Global Research", reveals that TP is simply a propaganda pushing troll for the Putin-led imperialist resurgence of Muscovy. Everybody, check out the hilariously and transparently anti-West nature of these two supposedly western think tanks, with American servers. TP, if this is the best you can do for your moskali masters, you had better give it up and go over to Manny's RUA for joyful anti-West and anti-Ukraine posting. He and Andrewfi will welcome you with open arms, St. George's ribbons, and a basket of double-headed eagles.


Please don't tell me you have NEVER read and cited the Drudge report in your lifetime.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 09, 2016, 09:47:43 AM
Reality check: Russia now controls the Crimea, Russia is not going to give it back. Everything else is a mute point. Who was right and who was wrong is immaterial any more.

Russia intends to keep Crimea and will use all necessary force of arms to keep it.

Ukraine cannot win a war against Russia to reclaim the Crimean territory and the west will not risk Thermonuclear War with Russia.

Ergo Crimea is now part of Russia. Argument over, case closed. Time to move on.


Yup it has been time to move on.  Things may be imperfect, but as long as there is larger nations trying to maintain/gain further dominance, there will be these things cropping up from time to time.  When we (US citizens) start harshly criticizing Russia, we tend to overlook our own misdeeds (Past and Present), which seem to often fly under the radar. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on May 09, 2016, 10:01:13 AM

Please don't tell me you have NEVER read and cited the Drudge report in your lifetime.

NEVER! and...don't tell me what I can't tell you in my posts.

I just, one hour ago, took you off  'Ignore', where you have been for the last 6 months. One post from you and I am already regretting it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on May 09, 2016, 10:19:05 AM
NEVER! and...don't tell me what I can't tell you in my posts.

I just, one hour ago, took you off  'Ignore', where you have been for the last 6 months. One post from you and I am already regretting it.


LMAO


I never had a beef with you. Never went after you. Ever.


You just didn't like me because I was a lefty. PERIOD.


Regret whatever you want, doesn't make any difference to me.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 09, 2016, 10:22:18 AM
The Russian 'Night Wolves' motorcycle gang rolled into Prague and wasn't greeted warmly.  :rolleyes:

http://www.rferl.org/media/video/russia-moscow-night-wolves/27724451.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on May 09, 2016, 10:23:56 AM
The Russian 'Night Wolves' motorcycle gang rolled into Prague and wasn't greeted warmly.  :rolleyes:

http://www.rferl.org/media/video/russia-moscow-night-wolves/27724451.html (http://www.rferl.org/media/video/russia-moscow-night-wolves/27724451.html)


I loved the Czech finger salute.  ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 09, 2016, 10:39:13 AM
A not so smart leader of the Russian terrorists fell, hook, line and sinker, for a gag poster at a crossing check point announcing that the invaders can skip waiting in line. "Yakut" was returning from a mission and wanted to get back quickly.. Oops.. He was quickly arrested.

http://www.unian.info/war/1338833-jumping-queue-may-cost-freedom-ato-forces-detain-not-so-smart-militant-leader.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2016, 12:22:08 PM
Reality check: Russia now controls the Crimea, Russia is not going to give it back. Everything else is a mute point. Who was right and who was wrong is immaterial any more.

Russia intends to keep Crimea and will use all necessary force of arms to keep it.

Ukraine cannot win a war against Russia to reclaim the Crimean territory and the west will not risk Thermonuclear War with Russia.

Ergo Crimea is now part of Russia. Argument over, case closed. Time to move on.


None of which is relevant to Mendy's point.


The point is not whether or not Crimea will form part of Ukraine.  No one believes that, including Ukrainians.  The point is that the territory was taken in an aggressive action contrary to international law, and, for that, Russia, and Crimea, must face sanctions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2016, 12:30:51 PM
Lets face it if Russia wanted to overrun Ukraine they could do so in around 10 days, fortunately that is not going to happen. By not so covertly (worst kept secret) Russia is equipping and supplying the breakaway regions. The fight is not yet over at least one more major offensive is coming, there is an old adage Use it or Loose it and there is a lot of men and equipment being massed on both sides.

Who will prevail is never assured a battle plan rarely survives the first shot.

Ukraine the Ukrainian leaders and those nationalists need to get over the loss of Crimea, it is now part of Russia and just like Jerusalem is now the capitol of Israel, Russia will never relinquish it.

The question is are the Ukrainian leaders the nationalists willing to mount an all out invasion and risk a Nuclear response in a failed attempt to get it back? Most would agree that Israel would use thermonuclear weapons in the face of overwhelming odds and or a surprise attack to retake Jerusalem. Why not the local commanders who have been given direct and operational control of their missiles?

Where are you getting this BS about Ukraine wanting to mount an invasion/nuclear response?

Russia reportedly has lost more than a thousand of soldiers in a low level fight war close to its border. where half the population (at least in Donetsk) was pro Russian.  Do you really believe it would be willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of soldiers for an invasion of Ukraine?  The US was able to overtake Iraq very quickly.  Look how well that turned out.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on May 09, 2016, 02:10:42 PM
Russia has lost thousands of soldiers in a low level fight war close to its border. where half the population (at least in Donetsk) was pro Russian.  Do you really believe it would be willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of soldiers for an invasion of Ukraine?  The US was able to overtake Iraq very quickly.  Look how well that turned out.
Russia has lost  thousands of soldiers only in  Ukrainian part of Facebook :)

I'd like to elaborate on the debated invasion in Ukraine. To understand how fantastic or not it sounds one should realize the motivation of Russia, first of all. The driving force for russian-ukrainian conflict was the struggle for the Slav flock of the same blood. International borders after SU disintegration had divided the flock of the same origin, history and culture.  The situation could be settled with the time going, the borders and geography form the nations.
    However the last 25 years failed to tranform population of Ukraine into the united nation, non-uniformity over West-East was visible enough.  Then, when the coup or let's say revolution occured in Kiev in Feb. 2014, some parts of Ukraine decided to stop identify themselves with Ukraine because they feel endangered by Ukrainian nationalists who came to power. Yes, that's unlawful bias in minds but here we've got the eternal dilemma what is more signnificant, law or people. OK, Russia never lived strictly according laws, but tuned with own concepts about justice, or just yielded rough force. So Russians welcomed the reunification with the part of Ukrainian population who decided to be back Russians. In this sense I think Donbass region is the cut-off chunk from Ukraine, because folk there is not associated anymore themselves with Ukrainians.
One has to understand that division Russian/Ukrainian goes not along ethnic signs, it rather concerns global vision of future, respect to history, political preferences.
     If Ukraine will have population who considered themselves Ukrainians, then no problems appear in future, and any talk about the invasion would be pretty silly. However, if Ukraine will split again on the issue of self identification to the extent of civil war,   I would not exclude the intervention of Russia on behalf of pro-russian side of inner Ukrainian conflict.

2016 Moscow Victory Day Parade, May 9. Pleasant surprise.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 09, 2016, 02:20:56 PM

There are plenty of reports, even in Russian media, of the soldiers who came home in body bags from "training exercises" which happened to occur in Donbas.

You are looking at the issue through the prism of Russian nationalism, Belvis.


Ukrainians do view themselves as "Ukrainian".  Countless polls have demonstrated this.  You also saw it when UW, such as mies and missAmeno, posted here.


What Ukraine does not have is a state.  It is run by corrupt oligarchs.  That, plus Russians who came in and began fighting in Donbas, is what started the war.  Corrupt Western Ukrainian politicians came to take the mines.  Akhmetov and Party of Regions supporters who were profiting from those mines objected.  That was the basis of the "conflict".  Then of course, Russians, all with ties to military intelligence, happened to be in Donetsk directing the firefight - Girkin, Borodai, Bashirov, Kavtaradze, Antiyufeev.  Funny how all those Moscow boys were "vacationing" in Donetsk, huh?


Now, Russia may have a state, but it is also run by corrupt oligarchs.  Just of a different flavour.  The only difference is, Russia has resources Ukraine does not.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 09, 2016, 02:28:30 PM
Where are you getting this BS about Ukraine wanting to mount an invasion/nuclear response?

Russia reportedly has lost more than a thousand of soldiers in a low level fight war close to its border. where half the population (at least in Donetsk) was pro Russian.  Do you really believe it would be willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of soldiers for an invasion of Ukraine?  The US was able to overtake Iraq very quickly.  Look how well that turned out.

You may want to reread my post, I said "The question is are the Ukrainian leaders the nationalists willing to mount an all out invasion and risk a Nuclear response in a failed attempt to get it back? This is a rhetorical question to a nonexistent possibility. Ukraine has neither the will or ability to dislodge Russia from the Crimea. Russia has stationed intermediate range Tactical Nuclear Weapons in Crimea as a deterrent and the the Russian Military has given control of these weapons to the local commanders.

Ukraine is on the verge of becoming a failed state, the U.S. and by default Europe is looking for a way to extricate themselves from the country.The IMF and other Banksters are not likely to loan them any more so it is only a matter of time.

My point is that all of the arguments pro or con annexation of Crimea are now a mute point. Sanctions against Russia have hurt Europe just as much as they have Russia. France and Germany want to unilaterally end the sanctions and return to normal trade.

When not if this occurs the sanctions will have failed.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 09, 2016, 03:36:57 PM
There are six nuclear reactors in Zaporizhia that are almost identical to the one that exploded in Chernobil. Chernobil’s reactor exploded accidentally when its coolant was cut-off during a test.
There are simple and effective ways that could’ve have made the Chernobil disaster 10X worse than what it was, if it was deliberately planned in advance, but I won’t mention these details here.  5 trained people in each reactor is all you would need to deliberately do this.  Ukrainian internal security has already stopped two attempts by Right Sector to take over these reactors, but they were not serious efforts, maybe just testing security responses (Right Sector has thousands of members with extensive combat experience and weapons)...

Take a look here at the wind flow patterns:

http://www.windfinder.com/report/zaporizhia_aero

Six giant radioactive clouds would primarily head for Krim and southern Russia, potentially 60-100 times the level of Chernovil radiation, millions of people would have to be evacuated in a very short time and the land would not be inhabitable for hundreds of years.

THIS is Ukraine’s nuclear option, and afterwards it could claim no national responsibility, that it was the work of terrorists, and they’re working “really hard” to apprehend them.

and based on the previous 2 attempts, Right Sector has quite a bit of information on the security of these reactors, and certainly has supporters working on the inside.

This is ultimately what will prevent the land bridge to Krim
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on May 09, 2016, 04:39:34 PM
Six giant radioactive clouds would primarily head for Krim and southern Russia, potentially 60-100 times the level of Chernovil radiation, millions of people would have to be evacuated in a very short time and the land would not be inhabitable for hundreds of years.

THIS is Ukraine’s nuclear option,


Taking a nuclear shit in one's house and hoping the stink will blow downwind to the neighbor to irritate him isn't a bright idea. Ukraine will do more damage to itself than Crimea and risk losing Western support. They may blame it on terrorists but you can be sure Russian media will place the blame on the "fascists" running the Ukrainian government.

This is ultimately what will prevent the land bridge to Krim


Putin may even get international sympathy and have a valid excuse to invade Ukraine based on an attack on Russia and it's troops with nuclear fallout. After Putin takes Ukraine, he won't need that bridge to Crimea anymore since he'll have something more valuable.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 09, 2016, 04:55:22 PM
Polish Artist Jerzy Bohdan Szumczyk has unveiled a statue "Komm Frau" [Come Woman] to commemorate the Soviet soldiers rape of thousands of women on their way to Berlin in the ending years of the war..

Needless to say that Moscow's a bit miffed.. :crackwhip:

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/polish-artist-jerzy-bohdan-szumczyks-monument-to-hate/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 09, 2016, 05:03:35 PM
Polish Artist Jerzy Bohdan Szumczyk has unveiled a statue "Komm Frau" [Come Woman] to commemorate the Soviet soldiers rape of thousands of women on their way to Berlin in the ending years of the war..

Needless to say that Moscow's a bit miffed.. :crackwhip:

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/polish-artist-jerzy-bohdan-szumczyks-monument-to-hate/ (http://www.macleans.ca/politics/polish-artist-jerzy-bohdan-szumczyks-monument-to-hate/)

Atrocities happen, that is a fact of War, it is not right but there are no Just Wars, only those which are occasionally unavoidable.

Every side can point fingers at the other, but is always the winners who write the history and that is always in their favor.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 09, 2016, 05:43:47 PM
Jeesh.. I thought that the Soviets won all by themselves!  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 09, 2016, 06:08:46 PM
“Taking a nuclear shit in one's house and hoping the stink will blow downwind to the neighbor to irritate him isn't a bright idea. “

Nor was it a 'bright idea’ to cut off the flow of coolant to reactor #4 in Chernovil, but it was done!  It doesn’t matter if we think it’s good or not good, it’s a fact that Right Sector and/or friends have made at least two half-hearted attempts already, IMHO to just test the security response, Google can verify this!!

There is a well understood weather pattern around Krim, cold northern air flows south west from the north of Russia until it collides with the warmer air blowing in off the Black Sea, this creates a circular swirl of air currents that then goes back up to the North East, this is more pronounced in Autumn when the temperature drops, it’s the perfect weather pattern to carry a radioactive cloud  from Zaporizhia first southward through Krim and after it collides with air coming in off the Black Sea then heads up through the North East through the south of Russia, a little bit of Googling and you’ll see some visualizations of these flows.

If it gets to the point that Right Sector decides to do this, then they are WAY past the point of worrying about what someone outside of Ukraine will think about it.

If they time it right and the core is maximized with waste products and they can get all 6 and optimize a few more details, then Russia will have no choice but to COMPLETELY evacuate Krim and Southern Russia for the next 6 centuries, possibly the whole country collapses as a result.

A second possibility is the Zaporizhia nuclear waste processing facility, which has 1,000‘s of tons of raw and processed radioactive waste, a few years ago, read about what happened when just a few grams were involved:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

Zaporizhia has 1000‘s of KG of separated caesium in metal cylinders secured in bunkers with padlocks, a few years ago one was stolen and confiscated at the Simferopol airport, because the thief’s partner felt cheated and turned him in!

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 09, 2016, 09:26:25 PM

 Russia took offshore until the end of 2014 more than 1, 3 trillion. US dollars, writes The Guardian. This is more than the same period brought China, whose economy is eight times more than the Russian economy.

You fall out of his chair to learn how much money was stolen by Putin and his gang!

http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/vy-upadete-so-stula-uznav-skolko-deneg-bylo-ukradeno-putynym-y-ego-bandoj/

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/08/offshore-finance-emerging-countries-russia-david-cameron-summit
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 10, 2016, 02:31:26 AM
Nothing improving in Russia as the day of reckoning looms on the horizon ! :)

Russia’s Gloomy Prospects

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/crony-capitalism-hurting-russian-economy-by-anders-aslund-and-simon-commander-2016-05
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 10, 2016, 02:41:54 AM
“Taking a nuclear shit in one's house and hoping the stink will blow downwind to the neighbor to irritate him isn't a bright idea. “
Nor was it a 'bright idea’ to cut off the flow of coolant to reactor #4 in Chernovil, but it was done!  It doesn’t matter if we think it’s good or not good, it’s a fact that Right Sector and/or friends have made at least two half-hearted attempts already, IMHO to just test the security response, Google can verify this!!


Your combination of unrelated events is such bs it is hard to believe the degree of your delusions.In the same category  that 9/11 never happened and the moon landing was faked! Wait-that is what a few of your deluded pro-Russian syncopants believe.

One side has consistently shown respect for human lives-- and it is not Russia.

Fact is- any nuclear issue at this time would come from Russia on some bs pretence. As it stands-the only country abiding the Budapest agreement is Ukraine- but   they are now moving to rectify that piece of trust and bad judgment.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 10, 2016, 03:34:04 AM
Polish Artist Jerzy Bohdan Szumczyk has unveiled a statue "Komm Frau" [Come Woman] to commemorate the Soviet soldiers rape of thousands of women on their way to Berlin in the ending years of the war..

Needless to say that Moscow's a bit miffed.. :crackwhip:

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/polish-artist-jerzy-bohdan-szumczyks-monument-to-hate/

AKMike,
I really, really wish you would cease your incessant one-liner posts that have no purpose at all other than to somehow try and raise an eyebrow or two here or there.  This is an article from 3 years ago and you unveil it now as if it was recent.. jeez.. start your own board and paste all you want.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 10, 2016, 03:34:31 AM

Fact is- any nuclear issue at this time would come from Russia on some bs pretence. As it stands-the only country abiding the Budapest agreement is Ukraine- but   they are now moving to rectify that piece of trust and bad judgment.

I think you might be more accurate when 'knocking' folk to refer to them as pro- Kremlin rather than pro Russian..

The Kremlin say 'Ukraine broke the Budapest Memorandum' ... by 'illegally removing the legit president', Yanu' ....

btw what is happening about trying him in absentia for his and family members' alleged corrupt practices ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 10, 2016, 07:34:37 AM
Russian Exodus From Kazakhstan Continues Unabated

http://russia-insider.com/en/russian-exodus-kazakhstan-continues-unabated/ri14258 (http://russia-insider.com/en/russian-exodus-kazakhstan-continues-unabated/ri14258)

While this might at first glance be bad news for Russia it mirrors what happened to my wife who was born and raised in Tajikistan during the Soviet era. Once Tajikistan became independent it quickly  to began revert to its ethnic roots, Tajik became the official language, Islamic Fundamentalism began to rise and ethnic Russians we regulated to second class status.

Then the country descended into a bloody civil war as the various factions pushed for power. Many like my wife, her family and numerous others left for Russia which as it turned out was to their advantage in the early days of the post Soviet Russia.

Even with the current economic difficulties Russia is experiencing today 25,000 to 30,000 political and economic refuges per year can be absorbed in a general population of over 160 million but their opportunities will be reduced.

Generally speaking Russia's population has until recently been on the decline due to a low birth rate so any immigration is a net benefit.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 10, 2016, 07:54:10 AM
Russians do not have second class status in Kazakhstan.  I know this, as I have relatives (in laws) who live in Astana.

What most Westerners do not know is how ethnic Russians often behaved in other republics during Soviet times.  They were sent to "Russify" those republics, and, most often, viewed themselves as superior to the locals.  My husband remembers vividly seeing this on display in a couple of the Baltic republics.  The locals always assumed he was local, and would comment to him, usually in a language he didn't speak, about the boorish behaviour of the Russians around him.

This even occurred in Ukraine, mostly in Western Ukraine, up to the collapse.  The population there was viewed as suspect, it was ruled not from Kyiv, but from Moscow, and all key positions were held by ethnic Russians who were not locals.

Soviet and post Soviet societies were, and still are, about who is the "boss".  A "boss" garners respect and can get away with many bad behaviours.  This is something many who emigrate from post Soviet countries to the West have issues with.  I've seen it first hand.  It is difficult for them to adjust to the fact that here, they are just another average schmuck.  That is also what is happening with Russians moving back to Russia.  Some of it is opportunity (more in Russia than in most of the former republics).  But is also about that loss of position/respect.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 10, 2016, 08:32:36 AM
Russians do not have second class status in Kazakhstan.  I know this, as I have relatives (in laws) who live in Astana.

What most Westerners do not know is how ethnic Russians often behaved in other republics during Soviet times.  They were sent to "Russify" those republics, and, most often, viewed themselves as superior to the locals.  My husband remembers vividly seeing this on display in a couple of the Baltic republics.  The locals always assumed he was local, and would comment to him, usually in a language he didn't speak, about the boorish behaviour of the Russians around him.

This even occurred in Ukraine, mostly in Western Ukraine, up to the collapse.  The population there was viewed as suspect, it was ruled not from Kyiv, but from Moscow, and all key positions were held by ethnic Russians who were not locals.

Soviet and post Soviet societies were, and still are, about who is the "boss".  A "boss" garners respect and can get away with many bad behaviours.  This is something many who emigrate from post Soviet countries to the West have issues with.  I've seen it first hand.  It is difficult for them to adjust to the fact that here, they are just another average schmuck.  That is also what is happening with Russians moving back to Russia.  Some of it is opportunity (more in Russia than in most of the former republics).  But is also about that loss of position/respect.

Most of what you said is correct, the Soviet Union wanted to force integration and homogenize the republics under its rule. That of course always ends well.

Hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians were relocated to the various republics in order to achieve the goal of  integration and homogenization. Russian was the official language, local cultural practices were actively discouraged or suppressed.

Peace and harmony was guaranteed by brute force. It is little wonder that once the oppression was removed that nationalism grew in attempt to regain the local identity.

For lack of a better regional terms the Stans are ethnically, culturally and religiously different than traditional Russian culture. Islam which is on the rise in these areas is fundamentally at odds with the most basic of western values, the two systems cannot survive within each other sphere of influence. As these regions push for their own unique culture, language and values many ethnic Russian will opt to leave.   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 10, 2016, 09:11:42 AM
AKMike,
I really, really wish you would cease your incessant one-liner posts that have no purpose

Count the lines  silly.. :crackwhip:

 That was just a reminder of some of the horrors from WWII. I didn't know that you put an expiration date on mass rape. But maybe that's just you?  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 10, 2016, 09:42:00 AM
Count the lines  silly.. :crackwhip:

 That was just a reminder of some of the horrors from WWII. I didn't know that you put an expiration date on mass rape. But maybe that's just you?  :rolleyes:

Ok so the topic is now war horrors....How about Vietnam and mass murders?  In one incident alone 500 civilians killed in 4 hours and a lunch break. Or how about  5000-7000 civilians killed in one operation alone just to be the king of kills with slogans like "If it's dead and Vietnamese, it's VC", days off or a case of beer for the highest body count for the week.

Any War is pure hell where very worst of mankind comes out in full force from all sides involved. 

No army is immune so what's the point of your post?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 10, 2016, 10:23:48 AM
There are no good players on the world scene, Russia, China, England, Israel and America among others each have their own agenda. When their goals are aligned they work together, sometimes against each other, always in their own best interests be that for good or evil.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 10, 2016, 10:59:48 AM
There are no good players on the world scene, Russia, China, England, Israel and America among others each have their own agenda. When their goals are aligned they work together, sometimes against each other, always in their own best interests be that for good or evil.

I'm not aware the UK has broken up, yet...Why do uniformed folk from across the pond refer to 'English'  and England' when they mean British and Britain...?

Carry on - cranky moment passed
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on May 10, 2016, 11:04:41 AM
I'm not aware the UK has broken up, yet...Why do uniformed folk from across the pond refer to 'English'  and England' when they mean British and Britain...?

Carry on - cranky moment passed


I think it has to do with the last vestiges of rebellion from the colonials.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 10, 2016, 11:29:38 AM

I think it has to do with the last vestiges of rebellion from the colonials.  ;)

Just remember that these "Colonials" kicked England's sorry ASS twice and if was not for the sacrifices of "We the People" of the United States of America the official language of England would likely be German today and the first Atomic Bomb might have gone off over London.

It would take almost 3 of that little piss ass little country to make up 1 Texas and with a total population of around 66 million, California, Florida and Texas have a bigger population, not to mention the other 47 states. It takes around 5 to 6 hours to drive the length of England, it takes 11 hours to drive from corner to corner across Texas.

The brits are a bit to arrogant and self absorbed for their own good.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 10, 2016, 11:46:08 AM

Most of what you said is correct, the Soviet Union wanted to force integration and homogenize the republics under its rule. That of course always ends well.

Hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians were relocated to the various republics in order to achieve the goal of  integration and homogenization. Russian was the official language, local cultural practices were actively discouraged or suppressed.

Peace and harmony was guaranteed by brute force. It is little wonder that once the oppression was removed that nationalism grew in attempt to regain the local identity.

For lack of a better regional terms the Stans are ethnically, culturally and religiously different than traditional Russian culture. Islam which is on the rise in these areas is fundamentally at odds with the most basic of western values, the two systems cannot survive within each other sphere of influence. As these regions push for their own unique culture, language and values many ethnic Russian will opt to leave.   

No, that is not quite accurate.  The masses were not Russian.  It was at the party level that most of this took place.

There were policies of Russification, however, each republic did have information still printed in its own language, each had its own schools (though lack of Russian would be a career limiting move).  The issue related to the republics' languages and cultures was about nationalism rather than homogenization.

The CPSU did want to create a new man, free from the constraints of the past, as that was a central tenet of Bolshevism. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 10, 2016, 11:55:02 AM

No, that is not quite accurate.  The masses were not Russian.  It was at the party level that most of this took place.

There were policies of Russification, however, each republic did have information still printed in their own languages, they had their own schools.  The issue related to the republics' language and culture was about nationalism rather than homogenization.

The CPSU did want to create a new man, free from the constraints of the past, as that was a central tenet of Bolshevism.

We need to keep in mind that we are discussing in broad generalities not specifics.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 10, 2016, 11:59:00 AM
I'm talking ideology, not generalities.

The proletariat was expected to know Russian, because it was the language of Lenin, the leader of the world's proletariat.  Mayakovsky was, according to the CPSU, the "world's greatest proletarian poet" -

Да будь я хоть негром преклонных годов,
И то б, без унынья и лени,
Я русский бы выучил только за то,
Что им разговаривал Ленин!  - В. Маяковский
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 10, 2016, 12:13:46 PM
I'm talking ideology, not generalities.

The proletariat was expected to know Russian, because it was the language of Lenin, the leader of the world's proletariat.  Mayakovsky was, according to the CPSU, the "world's greatest proletarian poet" -

Да будь я хоть негром преклонных годов,
И то б, без унынья и лени,
Я русский бы выучил только за то,
Что им разговаривал Ленин!  - В. Маяковский

For the purposes of discussion it is irrelevant if the language is Russian or Chinese backwards. The locals were required to learn the establishment's designated language and the local language was suppressed as was the culture and religious practices.

All of this was enforced by the muzzle of a gun.

Once this threat was gone the locals quickly moved to reestablish their former culture and language. Hatred of the former oppressors is to be expected even if those remaining had nothing to do with the oppression.      
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 10, 2016, 01:23:06 PM
There were policies of Russification, but no, you are incorrect.  Local languages were not suppressed.  Every republic in the USSR had schools where one could learn the local language.  Other than in Stalinist times, the policies were far more subtle than you state, though the intent, and practically, the effect, was the same.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 10, 2016, 01:39:20 PM
In Ukraine, if a child attended a Russian school, he/she was required to learn Ukrainian as a second language, and vice versa. I know this was true in Estonia and Kazakhstan as well.

What was ruthlessly oppressed was any expression of nationalism.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 10, 2016, 02:09:01 PM
In Ukraine, if a child attended a Russian school, he/she was required to learn Ukrainian as a second language, and vice versa. I know this was true in Estonia and Kazakhstan as well.

What was ruthlessly oppressed was any expression of nationalism.

The key word is suppressed. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 10, 2016, 02:14:22 PM
Nationalism and national identity, though, differ from language.

Nationalism was not oppressed because of a policy of Russification.  It was oppressed because Marxism viewed national identity as a remnant of the bourgeoisie.  Lenin held these views as well, however, he modified it by allowing NEP, to save his Revolution.  Under NEP, which first was introduced in Ukraine, national identity and national consciousness flourished.  The late 1920's/early 1930's produced a great amount of Ukrainian literature and critical thought.  But that strengthened national identity meant a different path of the Revolution, which is why it eventually was cut.  However, the NEP pattern was replicated in almost all the other Soviet republics.

Without NEP, the Civil War in Ukraine would have lasted much longer, and Petliura might have won, eventually.

I will also add that policies of Russification predate the communists in Ukraine.  Read about the Ems Ukaz for the historical background.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 10, 2016, 02:40:51 PM
There are no good players on the world scene, Russia, China, England, Israel and America among others each have their own agenda. When their goals are aligned they work together, sometimes against each other, always in their own best interests be that for good or evil.


it seems that most like to think of their home nation as being 'good'....maybe that is human nature.... In recent years, by taking a step or two back and listening to the other side, it seems pretty clear to me that your statement is true.  I can accept that our nation (The USA) is not much different than others, although we have the most power/money/influence so our misdeeds are packaged more neatly with ribbons and bows, so more people purchase them.


If for some reason in the future something changes and another nation is in our position, our citizenry would probably feel differently about a lot of things as it pertains to the world stage, and how events are perceived....


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 10, 2016, 02:45:59 PM

it seems that most like to think of their home nation as being 'good'....maybe that is human nature.... In recent years, by taking a step or two back and listening to the other side, it seems pretty clear to me that your statement is true.  I can accept that our nation (The USA) is not much different than others, although we have the most power/money/influence so our misdeeds are packaged more neatly with ribbons and bows, so more people purchase them.

If for some reason in the future something changes and another nation is in our position, our citizenry would probably feel differently about a lot of things as it pertains to the world stage, and how events are perceived....

Fathertime!

A little like most people believe (wrongly I might add) that there elected representative is honest and that the others are crooks, when in fact all of them are crooks to one extent or another.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 10, 2016, 09:13:30 PM
Ukraine trails at #5  :clapping:


 The Economist compares crony capitalism in the world and Russia leads by a healthy margin! Congrats...  :rolleyes:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/05/daily-chart-2
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 11, 2016, 04:28:55 AM
So Ukraine is still one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and that's a cause of celebration?

I think the Economist's rankings are strange.  Singapore more corrupt than Ukraine?  Really?

In Russia, the political elite determine the power of the oligarchs.  In Ukraine, the oligarchs determine the power of the political elite.  Which one of those sounds more corrupt?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on May 11, 2016, 05:14:34 AM
So Ukraine is still one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and that's a cause of celebration?

I think the Economist's rankings are strange.  Singapore more corrupt than Ukraine?  Really?

In Russia, the political elite determine the power of the oligarchs.  In Ukraine, the oligarchs determine the power of the political elite.  Which one of those sounds more corrupt?


haha  As long as Ukraine is doing better than Russia, it's all good.  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 11, 2016, 05:52:27 AM

haha  As long as Ukraine is doing better than Russia, it's all good.  :)

Ukraine doing better than Russia? Are you insane?

Ukraine is bordering on becoming a failed state, the country is broke, the U.S. took all 33 tons of Ukraine's physical gold reserves and Russia is adding to its gold reserves which officially exceed 1352.21 tons. Russia I making trade agreements with numerous other countries to trade in their currency, not dollars.

And much more.

Ukraine is a small unimportant country with little more than Russian/Soviet pipelines passing through it which Europe depends on.

It is a pawn in the global game of who controls what.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on May 11, 2016, 06:04:59 AM
I was making a joke TP.  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 11, 2016, 09:13:41 AM

 Russia I making trade agreements with numerous other countries to trade in their currency, not dollars.

And much more.


Don't forget the part about acting as a junior partner to China.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 11, 2016, 02:49:17 PM
Things are getting worse for moral in Donbas. Reported desertions and now HIV/Aids..
(That's a one line BC)


http://112.international/politics/military-intelligence-russian-servicemen-get-hivaids-in-donbas-4743.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 11, 2016, 04:48:49 PM
Russia's oil income has fallen to a 12 year low despite an almost 5% increase in shipped oil since last year.

 This combined with the inflation and rising food prices have got to hurt the average 'Ivan' on the street.  Yet the Kremlin increases the involvement in Syria, arms to the Russian army and terrorist in Ukraine. 

http://ukranews.com/news/208366.Dohodi-Rossii-ot-torgovli-neftyu-ruhnuli-k-12-letnemu-minimumu.ru
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 11, 2016, 05:40:15 PM
And now an update  !!
Trillions of roubles to Putins cronies-- and now!!

Kerch Bridge:  150 piles, disappeared. They drowned!

Quote: "Witnesses of the construction of the bridge Kerch passed:" We scored it, it means that the 100-meter piles. In the morning come, and they are not - sucked. At the time, this fact was one of the reasons for stopping the construction of nuclear power plant in Crimea Shelkino. When the concrete to support left, as if into a bottomless pit ",

http://www.bbcccnn.com.ua/novyny-krymu/krymskyj-most-zabyly-150-svaj-a-ony-yschez/

http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2371107.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 11, 2016, 06:00:53 PM
That should set the completion date back a few more ... Years..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 11, 2016, 08:19:16 PM
Russia's oil income has fallen to a 12 year low despite an almost 5% increase in shipped oil since last year.

 This combined with the inflation and rising food prices have got to hurt the average 'Ivan' on the street.  Yet the Kremlin increases the involvement in Syria, arms to the Russian army and terrorist in Ukraine. 

http://ukranews.com/news/208366.Dohodi-Rossii-ot-torgovli-neftyu-ruhnuli-k-12-letnemu-minimumu.ru (http://ukranews.com/news/208366.Dohodi-Rossii-ot-torgovli-neftyu-ruhnuli-k-12-letnemu-minimumu.ru)


Russian Drone get taken out by a Russian surface to air....  spear.   :rolleyes:

With Video!




I could post 20 obscure links a day to stories about things that go wrong with the US government...it is just so silly after a while....I doubt you will ever live to see the great demise you crave coming from Russia...meanwhile some of the citizenry will mostly suffer to a degree, while you pretend to celebrate.... Despite the parade of 'end of Russia" stories, the important individuals are probably still eating well, and carousing with the finest ladies, and Russia will probably normalize over the next decade, while you become an elderly guy howling at the moon.     


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 11, 2016, 08:39:02 PM

, the important individuals are probably still eating well, and carousing with the finest ladies,

Fathertime!

Sums up your ignorance.
 On your scale as long as Putins Kremlin kleptocrats are eating well it  matters zero how hard the rest of the population is doing  it .
 There has been so much information posted about the downturn in the economy and the ongoing affects and you still come out with nonsense like that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 11, 2016, 08:42:45 PM
Sums up your ignorance.
 On your scale as long as Putins Kremlin kleptocrats are eating well it  matters zero how hard the rest of the population is doing  it .
 There has been so much information posted about the downturn in the economy and the ongoing affects and you still come out with nonsense like that.


It appears you ignorantly clipped my quote and left out the part about the general population...let me help you!



..meanwhile some of the citizenry will mostly suffer to a degree, while you pretend to celebrate.
... Despite the parade of 'end of Russia" stories, the important individuals are probably still eating well, and carousing with the finest ladies,     

Fathertime!   


does that help you?  I didn't think so... By all means continue your fruitless 'celebration'! haha
Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 12, 2016, 01:30:46 AM

This is quite a long article and worth reading-- particularly by those that have little idea about Russia!!

The author draws attention to the drastic drop in living standards in Russia associated with the collapse of the ruble and the economic crisis. The ruble decreasing  the purchasing power of wages - the Russians will start to rebel and finally lag behind Ukraine (after allowing it to regain lost territory).


How Russia will perish

Of course, all of these generally accepted truth - the usual chauvinistic nonsense prepared by Soviet and then the Russian equivalent of the Ministry of Truth. But it is a first class hammered into the heads of all over the USSR, and now - the Russian, so needs special parsing.

http://newsonline24.com.ua/kak-pogibnet-rossiya-nikakoj-rusofobii-tolko-fakty



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 12, 2016, 06:00:22 AM
This is quite a long article and worth reading-- particularly by those that have little idea about Russia!!

The author draws attention to the drastic drop in living standards in Russia associated with the collapse of the ruble and the economic crisis. The ruble decreasing  the purchasing power of wages - the Russians will start to rebel and finally lag behind Ukraine (after allowing it to regain lost territory).


How Russia will perish

Of course, all of these generally accepted truth - the usual chauvinistic nonsense prepared by Soviet and then the Russian equivalent of the Ministry of Truth. But it is a first class hammered into the heads of all over the USSR, and now - the Russian, so needs special parsing.

http://newsonline24.com.ua/kak-pogibnet-rossiya-nikakoj-rusofobii-tolko-fakty (http://newsonline24.com.ua/kak-pogibnet-rossiya-nikakoj-rusofobii-tolko-fakty)

Wishful thinking at best, "the Russians will start to rebel and finally lag behind Ukraine (after allowing it to regain lost territory)."

There is little question that a Global Finical Reset and Realignment is coming in the near future. This will likely result in a War, how big and destructive is anyone's guess, there is one thing that is guaranteed.

Nothing will be the same from what we know and understand today.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 12, 2016, 06:17:42 AM
As a follow up to the post above:


http://alt-market.com/articles/2890-what-will-the-global-economy-look-like-after-the-great-reset
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 12, 2016, 10:18:10 AM
And now an update  !!

An 'update' ? ... ;D

Your Ukrainian 'source' posted this story on September 2, 2015, 12:47 - referring to the work of piling driving on Aug 17th 2015 'disappearing'...

http://www.sobytiya.info/news/15/55218 (http://www.sobytiya.info/news/15/55218)

The second link you supplied ..


http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2371107.html (http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2371107.html)

Points out the following ..[his words ]

1/ The Ukrainian article used [stole ] the author's' photo - he lives in Kerch, Crimea

2/ The piles were 16m - not 100m - and were 'piled' with difficulty - not ease - some were cut.


You might want to re-read this link that you used to 'prove' you point - It seems - to me - to do exactly the OPPOSITE....?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 12, 2016, 02:24:17 PM
The EU Parliament passed a resolution for increased and longer sanctions against Russia for their acts against the Crimean Tatar people in Krym. This will also mean personal sanctions against those involved.

http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-politics/2015770-eu-parliament-resolution-sanctions-against-russia-should-be-increased.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 12, 2016, 02:47:18 PM
There's a large oil spill in the waters of the Black Sea around Sevastopol, Krym.

http://ecology.unian.ua/reduction/1341658-v-akvatoriji-sevastopolya-stavsya-viliv-naftoproduktiv-na-poverhni-morya-sposterigaetsya-velika-kilkist-mazutu.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 12, 2016, 02:48:53 PM
The EU Parliament passed a resolution for increased and longer sanctions against Russia for their acts against the Crimean Tatar people in Krym. This will also mean personal sanctions against those involved.

http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-politics/2015770-eu-parliament-resolution-sanctions-against-russia-should-be-increased.html (http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-politics/2015770-eu-parliament-resolution-sanctions-against-russia-should-be-increased.html)

And I am sure Russia will respond, and the escalation will continue. Sanctions on anyone are worthless in the modern world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 12, 2016, 03:04:38 PM
Right... :rolleyes:  Everyone can see how much it's helped Russia's economy.

 But on the bright side, Russia is considering banning all Turkish vegetables..  That'll help the local economy, provided that they have anything to sell (at higher prices). But then again that'll bump up the 50% of income that Russian's are already spending for food stuffs.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 12, 2016, 03:57:05 PM
Back in January of 2015 Russia abandonded the Petrodollar Reserve Fund it had established for balancing out oil revenues for days when the price of oil fell below profitablility.  The remaining 88 Billion was converted into Rubles and distributed to banks to offset the falling Ruble.  Now that the price of oil remains low for a full year and a half since that time, Russia is scraping bottom with its reserves. 

One of the interesting things of communism is that the value of the Ruble did not fluctuate as it was held in check by the central bank.  The Ruble is free  floating under the current government and that means that it can dive even farther than the latest low water mark of 80 Rubles to the US Dollar.   Additional sanctions for human rights violations and contention with neighbor countries continues the trend of the sliding ruble and the weak economy.  Couple that with the idea of various oil producing countries cutting off Russia's access to hard currency by selling directly to Western European countries and you have a situation that exerts more and more pressure on the government in Moscow.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 12, 2016, 04:43:18 PM
Talked to a neighbour in Sochi

They just lost their job - cutbacks due to the crisis and got 'gardening leave' for 2 months to find a new job.. worked in the national sports administration.

Meanwhile, got told by a teacher that the headmaster and deputy principles of Schools in Sochi had their salaries cut - 'cut backs'


I have no idea to what degree and whether this is a city, regional or national 'thing'.

In a time of inflation.. not good.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 12, 2016, 04:58:12 PM
An 'update' ? ... ;D


You might want to re-read this link that you used to 'prove' you point - It seems - to me - to do exactly the OPPOSITE....?

H--I posted to help you out-- on what you "saw" !!  Maybe you flew over before they sank? ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 12, 2016, 07:39:40 PM

 US Deploys Patriot Missiles to Protect ISIS Resupplyhttp://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/12/exclusive-us-deploys-patriot-missiles-to-protect-isis-resupply/ (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/12/exclusive-us-deploys-patriot-missiles-to-protect-isis-resupply/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 12, 2016, 07:41:20 PM

US lawmakers seek federal agency to dilute Russian & Chinese ‘propaganda’ with ‘flow of truth’

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/12/us-lawmakers-seek-federal-agency-to-dilute-russian-chinese-propaganda-with-flow-of-truth/ (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/12/us-lawmakers-seek-federal-agency-to-dilute-russian-chinese-propaganda-with-flow-of-truth/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 12, 2016, 08:01:56 PM
Russians are raging once again!  :rolleyes:

NATO activated a new missile shield in Romania. It's intended as a shield against Iran's ballistic missile program but 'Bad Vlad' figures that it'll cancel Russia's arsenal long enough to strike the Kremlin in the event of a war.

 When the system is complete there'll be defensive missiles stationed everywhere between Greenland to the Azores Islands. The next site will be in Poland.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-shield-idUSKCN0Y30JX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 12, 2016, 08:12:05 PM
Once again Russia is fuming.. :rolleyes:

 The US, Britain and the former FSU Republic of Georgia are conducting 2 week military exercises.

"About 650 soldiers from the United States, 150 from Britain and 500 from Georgia were taking part in the maneuvers, with Washington dispatching an entire mechanized company including eight Bradley infantry fighting vehicles and, for the first time, eight M1A2 Abrams main battle tanks."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-georgia-exercises-idUSKCN0Y21RP
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 12, 2016, 08:19:05 PM
Reuter's also reports that the World Anti Doping Agency, (WADA) may ask the Olympic Committee to retest Russian urine samples from the Sochi games.

 Wouldn't that be a pizzer if they stripped the Russians of some of their ill gotten gains if this is true.   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sport-doping-testing-idUSKCN0Y333L
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 12, 2016, 08:24:20 PM
Hey Moby!

 Were you screwing around with Putin's jeep there in Sochi?    ;)  He went to open the door and the handle fell off... Whoops..  :crackwhip:  So much for Russian Q.C. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-autos-idUSKCN0Y328W
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 12, 2016, 10:23:32 PM
H--I posted to help you out-- on what you "saw" !!  Maybe you flew over before they sank? ;D

Was that JayH for - ''Sorry,..I copied and pasted an OLD article by a Ukrainian misinfo blogger that made me look daft'' ?  :D

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 12, 2016, 11:33:14 PM
Hey Moby!

 Were you screwing around with Putin's jeep there in Sochi?    ;)  He went to open the door and the handle fell off... Whoops..  :crackwhip:  So much for Russian Q.C. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-autos-idUSKCN0Y328W

Now that IS funny..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on May 13, 2016, 04:42:47 AM
US Deploys Patriot Missiles to Protect ISIS Resupplyhttp://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/12/exclusive-us-deploys-patriot-missiles-to-protect-isis-resupply/ (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/12/exclusive-us-deploys-patriot-missiles-to-protect-isis-resupply/)

TP, I had some hope for you, based on your posts for the last three days, but you are now back to your St. Petersburg 'troll factory' links. Do you think that, on a forum devoted to not only women in the FSU but also to culture, history and current events in the FSU, we members are so gullible as to soak up the bs you so flagrantly flaunt in your pro-Kremlin links?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 13, 2016, 05:57:53 AM
Once again Russia is fuming.. :rolleyes:

 The US, Britain and the former FSU Republic of Georgia are conducting 2 week military exercises.

"About 650 soldiers from the United States, 150 from Britain and 500 from Georgia were taking part in the maneuvers, with Washington dispatching an entire mechanized company including eight Bradley infantry fighting vehicles and, for the first time, eight M1A2 Abrams main battle tanks."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-georgia-exercises-idUSKCN0Y21RP (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-georgia-exercises-idUSKCN0Y21RP)

Political posturing and Propaganda on both sides, that is all this is. Opium for the masses.  
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 13, 2016, 06:08:06 AM
TP, I had some hope for you, based on your posts for the last three days, but you are now back to your St. Petersburg 'troll factory' links. Do you think that, on a forum devoted to not only women in the FSU but also to culture, history and current events in the FSU, we members are so gullible as to soak up the bs you so flagrantly flaunt in your pro-Kremlin links?

I see the narrow minded troll has learned to write. Perhaps you will learn to read as well (understand maybe not so well), much of what is in print and on various media is little more than propaganda by ALL sides. The U.S. and Russia play the same game as well as every other country, group or political movement, corporations disseminate propaganda.

It is up to the individual to sift through the information and decide for themselves what the truth is or what they want it to be. Right/Wrong, Good/Bad, Evil/Righteous or any other label someone wants to place on someone or something are just that labels based on personal experience, prejudices and preconceived ideas based on fact or belief.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 13, 2016, 08:24:54 AM
Political posturing and Propaganda on both sides, that is all this is. Opium for the masses.

Someone may be smoking opium.   :rolleyes:  There's nothing that indicates anything involving both sides. Russia is pizzed that Georgia is leaning westward and avoiding Russia and the CIS/FSU.

 Stop and ask yourself why most of the former members of the CCCP are running toward NATO and the west rather than return towards 'mother Russia..'   They know that it all for the leaders of the Kremlin and not toward to common people. They've risen above the vatnik stage that are still gullible enough to stay in Russia.   :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Brasscasing on May 13, 2016, 08:55:55 AM
I see the narrow minded troll has learned to write. Perhaps you will learn to read as well (understand maybe not so well), much of what is in print and on various media is little more than propaganda by ALL sides. The U.S. and Russia play the same game as well as every other country, group or political movement, corporations disseminate propaganda.

It is up to the individual to sift through the information and decide for themselves what the truth is or what they want it to be. Right/Wrong, Good/Bad, Evil/Righteous or any other label someone wants to place on someone or something are just that labels based on personal experience, prejudices and preconceived ideas based on fact or belief.   

Not quite. Gordon Duff, senior editor of Veterans Today has admitted to disseminating false information ...

Veterans Today - Gordon Duff 40% False Information Controversy

Gordon Duff of Veterans Today being interviewed by talk show hosts Mike Harris (Short End of the Stick), Kevin Barrett (Truth Jihad) and Jeff Rense (Jeff Rense Program).

Recording dates - October, November 2012


 At 70m35s into the Mike Harris interview Duff makes the following statement:

 "I don’t know know any imaginable way you can get information…First of all…Because, about 30%, based on what I believe…and you know what? Who says I’m right? According to my belief, and I have as good of, uh access to information as anyone in the world, probably, anyone I know of. About 30% of what’s written on Veterans Today, is patently false. About 40% of what I write, is at least purposely, partially false, because if I didn’t write false information I wouldn’t be alive. I simply have to do that. I write…anything I write I write between the lines."

The actual radio interview and more information is found here...

http://archive.org/details/GordonDuff.FalseInformationControversy

Now, since this interview Duff has tried to eradicate this radio broadcast and any mention of it from the internet. Not surprisingly he hasn't been successful.

Further, this disinformation website has been known to defame and libel legitimate veteran's organizations...

..."Alex Graham and Veterans Today Articles:

On April 28, 2015, Gordon “Alex” Graham issued a retraction to his Veterans Today articles and postings to his Asknod.com blog, both of which contained false and untrue information about Wounded Warrior Project® (WWP). In addition to his retraction, Mr. Graham issued an apology to WWP and all veterans for his “false, misleading and defamatory” statements.

In his retraction and apology, Mr. Graham admitted that his actions were not only false, but also harmful to the wounded servicemen and women we serve, and acknowledged the truth: that WWP positively impacts wounded veterans with our lifesaving services. Follow the link below to view the court documents.
•Alex Graham Consent Judgment (view retraction on page 3)"...

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/scam-information

Brass
 

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 13, 2016, 08:56:40 AM
TP -

I see an orchestrated activity in Russia to present a united front to discredit and create chaos in NATO countries through the use of all media outlets which are controlled by the government.

I see very little organization in the West to do the same thing in reverse.  Moreover, most Western media outlets simply do not care about Russia.  Russia is not the center of media reporting as the West is in Russia.  In the US, I could name only  five or six outlets that regularly monitor activities by Russia or Russia's activities in Ukraine and other Eastern European countries. 

To the average American (USA'n?) Russia is an oddity, not the devil.   

Keep in mind that the West's economic machine brought down the Soviet Union.  Russia has fewer resources at its disposal than it did during that timeframe.  It is now one country, not an amalgamation of countries as it was then.  Petrodollars are not flowing into the coffers. 

Putin is playing with a busted flush and the West is upping the ante.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 13, 2016, 12:44:21 PM
TP -

I see an orchestrated activity in Russia to present a united front to discredit and create chaos in NATO countries through the use of all media outlets which are controlled by the government.

I see very little organization in the West to do the same thing in reverse.  Moreover, most Western media outlets simply do not care about Russia.  Russia is not the center of media reporting as the West is in Russia.  In the US, I could name only  five or six outlets that regularly monitor activities by Russia or Russia's activities in Ukraine and other Eastern European countries. 

To the average American (USA'n?) Russia is an oddity, not the devil.   

Keep in mind that the West's economic machine brought down the Soviet Union.  Russia has fewer resources at its disposal than it did during that timeframe.  It is now one country, not an amalgamation of countries as it was then.  Petrodollars are not flowing into the coffers. 

Putin is playing with a busted flush and the West is upping the ante.
US Senators Introduce Bill to Counter Russian, Chinese 'Propaganda'Countering Russian Propaganda Abroad  (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/10/countering-russian-propaganda-abroad)http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/10/countering-russian-propaganda-abroad[/url]Portman Delivers Speech on Bipartisan Bill to Counter Foreign Government Propaganda  (http://www.portman.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=B764E2E9-EFB5-4E90-9F16-0428FE7D4CBB)http://www.portman.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=B764E2E9-EFB5-4E90-9F16-0428FE7D4CBB (http://www.portman.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=B764E2E9-EFB5-4E90-9F16-0428FE7D4CBB)These are many, many more articles, but do not for a minute believe that it has not been going on by all sides for a very LONG time now. Russia is an east target just as the Soviet Union was during the Cold War. Back in the 60's there was never a missile gap, the U.S. had hundreds of more Nuclear capable missiles that Soviet Russia and the Pentagon knew it. Yet they perpetrated the lies over and over again and again.
Why? Simple answer funding for military spending, funding for the Military Industrial Complex and the rotating door of senior military personal to military contractor.
Russia is the Boogie Man that the criminals in power and behind the scenes can use at will to inflame the sheeple and justify their criminal behavior.
Russia is not blameless, every major government engages in propaganda to fit their agenda.

The major media's are simply tools in the propaganda/information war which rages daily.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 13, 2016, 07:01:45 PM


Putin is playing with a busted flush and the West is upping the ante.


A high carded busted flush does beat a low carded busted straight....We do have 19+trillion in real debt...I don't know that we can afford to up the ante like we used to.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 13, 2016, 07:06:14 PM

A high carded busted flush does beat a low carded busted straight....We do have 19+trillion in real debt...I don't know that we can afford to up the ante like we used to.


Fathertime!

You don't think Saudi Arabia selling oil directly to Western Europe is a sign of racheting up against Russia? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 13, 2016, 07:22:05 PM
You don't think Saudi Arabia selling oil directly to Western Europe is a sign of racheting up against Russia?
Saudi Arabia isn't a western nation, so I don't follow why you responded to the post I made (Pertaining to the West) by emphasizing that Saudi Arabia is selling oil to Western Europe.    Can you explain?




As far as your question, I would imagine Saudi Arabia is trying to sell and make money anywhere they can.  Do you interpret their primary motive is to be ratcheting up against Russia?


We do have over 19 Trillion in debt, and it continue to rise fairly rapidly, I just don't know if we can continue to 'raise the ante' and think somehow it can be paid for, without some real pain down the line.  I think that is a legit concern/consideration.   


Fathertime!


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 13, 2016, 07:37:39 PM
Ever since 1917 Russia has blamed the west on all it's ills. Get a cold.. Blame the US.  Zika Virus.. Blame the CIA. Potato blight blame Ireland.  Plane crash.. Blame the Wright Brothers ect.

 If the west organizes to show blame for Russia's aggression and the Kremlins thefts, or other mistakes that affect it's people then it's yet another thing to blame the west on.   :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 13, 2016, 08:10:24 PM
Not like they dont need the foreign currency !


Tourists complain of Muscovites: spit, rude, shouting "Yankee go home

All believe that foreign tourists are to blame for dysfunctional relations between Russia and the West and should be punished for it.

http://www.mk.ru/moscow/2016/05/11/inturisty-zhaluyutsya-na-moskvichey-plyuyutsya-grubyat-krichat-yanki-gou-khoum.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 14, 2016, 12:19:30 AM
Father Time,

Who do you think is buying Saudi Arabian oil?  Western Europe!  That is the 'West' as I see it.  These countries were previously buying from Russia.  Now they are dealing their hard currency to someone other than the Kremlin.  The biggest threat that Russia holds on the world economy is that they could turn off the oil to Europe.  These Western countries think enough of such a threat that they are interested in shipping in oil rather than having it come through the pipeline, directly to them.

You have somewhat tunnel vision on the topic of US involvement overseas.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.  But the US is able to influence global events through its partners.  To me, Saudi Arabia and the US are very closely alligned in their foreign policy activities.  So, Russia heralds the breakup of OPEC.  Two days later the Saudis announce widespread sales activity into Western Europe.   

You might expand who you thing the West is.  My take is that it at least encompasses Western Europe and the US.  An argument could be brought forward to include close allies such as Saudi Arabia as Western Leaning.

I spoke above of pressure on the Russian government.  This is the same type of pressure that was brought to bear on the Soviet Union.  But!  Here is the big thing!  Russia is not insulated from international influence like it was in Soviet times where the population had little in expectations of living standards.  It does not have a ring of countries that could provide needed foodstuffs at the behest of the Kremlin. 

I see a much deeper impact on Russia this time around then that which happened in the late 1980s.  So, yup.  I think that the West (if not just the United States) is racheting up the pressure on Russia.  And as for the Western Europeans (and most Eastern European countries) I remind everyone how upset they are that Russia has brought war into mainland Europe again and changed the entire flavor of society there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on May 14, 2016, 03:03:11 AM
Not like they dont need the foreign currency !


Tourists complain of Muscovites: spit, rude, shouting "Yankee go home

All believe that foreign tourists are to blame for dysfunctional relations between Russia and the West and should be punished for it.

http://www.mk.ru/moscow/2016/05/11/inturisty-zhaluyutsya-na-moskvichey-plyuyutsya-grubyat-krichat-yanki-gou-khoum.html
Several here spit and blow their nose at Russia and Russians all the time. What's the difference?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 14, 2016, 04:09:14 AM
And here's some more bad news which adds more colour to the paint being used by the Kremlin to whitewash its view of the world:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/world/a/31597796/editors-quit-russian-media-group-after-putin-family-reports/

I suppose the only saving grace is that they've been left to resign in relative peace, rather than being hauled off to the Lubyanka, never to be seen again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 14, 2016, 06:15:24 AM
Father Time,

Who do you think is buying Saudi Arabian oil?  Western Europe!  That is the 'West' as I see it.  These countries were previously buying from Russia.  Now they are dealing their hard currency to someone other than the Kremlin.  The biggest threat that Russia holds on the world economy is that they could turn off the oil to Europe.  These Western countries think enough of such a threat that they are interested in shipping in oil rather than having it come through the pipeline, directly to them.



ok..the way it was initially phrased it appeared the focus was on Saudi Arabia.... 
Unless Saudi Arabia is pumping more oil, a gain in market share in one place is a loss somewhere else.



You have somewhat tunnel vision on the topic of US involvement overseas.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.  But the US is able to influence global events through its partners.  To me, Saudi Arabia and the US are very closely alligned in their foreign policy activities.  So, Russia heralds the breakup of OPEC.  Two days later the Saudis announce widespread sales activity into Western Europe.   

Yes the US is able to disproportionately influence other nations through money and/or potential military action on behalf of any given nation.  I'm sure Russia and China are going to continue to take steps in an effort to slow that attempted expansion.  My impression is that nations on the outside of the Western fold feel they are involved in a rigged game.  Nations that don't play along, find trouble...Libya, Syria are some recent examples....Saudi Arabia plays, so they are encouraged and propped up by the US..whether they are a long term partner/friend is questionable though....



I see a much deeper impact on Russia this time around then that which happened in the late 1980s.  So, yup.  I think that the West (if not just the United States) is racheting up the pressure on Russia.  And as for the Western Europeans (and most Eastern European countries) I remind everyone how upset they are that Russia has brought war into mainland Europe again and changed the entire flavor of society there.


I question a deeper impact for Russia..I think they will weather the storm...meanwhile we will inflict a wound onto ourselves in the process....as we move towards 20trillion in debt, it shall become harder to pay the interest alone on this number without a growing economy, so that is the position we are in....a busted straight....


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 14, 2016, 06:31:26 AM
Russian debt Clock: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/russia (http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/russia)

Russian GDP $ 2.099 trillion USD (2015 estimate)

Russian Population 143 million (rounded down)

U.S. Debt Clock: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates (http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates)

U.S GDP estimated to be $17.914 trillion as of Q2 2015

US Population 324 million (rounded up)

Comparing the two economies is problematical at best. 

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: treadmilldude on May 14, 2016, 07:12:03 AM
""Russian GDP $ 2.099 trillion USD (2015 estimate)""

Sorry, you are way off in your estimate of the Russian (Nominal) GDP. $2.099 Trillion? Nope. Try $1.133 trillion . Tigerpaws, why do you post fake, made-up numbers that makes Russia look better than it actually deserves?

Pathetic how bad the Russian economy is relative  to the world's best economy.

(2015 estimate) US GDP (Nominal) per Capita = $56,421 

(2016 estimate) Russian GDP (Nominal) per Capita = $7,742 

Tigerpaws, just curious, why do you hate the U.S. so much? I see you post 14,000,000 times every day about how terrible and corrupt the US is, how wonderful and honest Russia is. OK fine. But why do you hate the US so much?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 14, 2016, 08:54:32 AM
""Russian GDP $ 2.099 trillion USD (2015 estimate)""

Sorry, you are way off in your estimate of the Russian (Nominal) GDP. $2.099 Trillion? Nope. Try $1.133 trillion . Tigerpaws, why do you post fake, made-up numbers that makes Russia look better than it actually deserves?

http://www.gfmag.com/global-data/country-data/russia-gdp-country-report (http://www.gfmag.com/global-data/country-data/russia-gdp-country-report) A lot depends on who's numbers you want to believe, I have no agenda in what numbers are what.

Pathetic how bad the Russian economy is relative  to the world's best economy.

(2015 estimate) US GDP (Nominal) per Capita = $56,421 

(2016 estimate) Russian GDP (Nominal) per Capita = $7,742 

Tigerpaws, just curious, why do you hate the U.S. so much? I see you post 14,000,000 times every day about how terrible and corrupt the US is, how wonderful and honest Russia is. OK fine. But why do you hate the US so much?

Hate the U.S.? No, understand the corruption and some of the various agendas yes. Could the U.S. be better, sure, will it NOT in my lifetime or likely the lifetime of our daughter (if the country survives in its current form).

The U.S. is much less that it used to be, largely because a few have sought to profit from the countries decline. The list of contributing factors goes back many years, as an example take the dropping of the Gold standard by Nixon to NAFTA and the proposed Trans Pacific Trade Agreement which will be a disaster for American sovereignty.

People like Henry Kissinger who once said: "The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer." are part of the problem and there are many, many more.

Dose Russia have its issues? Without question so why do the political elite and the shrills in the media foster fear and hate? Why the propaganda?

To keep the focus of the American sheeple on someone and someplace other than what is going on in their own country.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 14, 2016, 09:15:04 AM
> why do you hate the U.S. so much?

maybe it’s just easier to “scapegoat” a lifetime of failures (divorce, job loss, foreclosure) on something besides himself...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 14, 2016, 11:13:20 AM
Congratulations!  You are an ignore ant!

http://images.wordseye.com/ws-image-db/2016-4-7/45367-thumbnail.jpg
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 14, 2016, 05:29:12 PM
In a further humiliation to midget putin, the country which he considers not a real country being Ukraine, wins this year's Eurovision Song Contest.

Ooops Russia even misses out on 2nd place, won by a country not even in Europe.

President huilo's country did managed to scrap in third, befitting of their third world status.

http://us.yahoo.com/music/26-countries-compete-final-eurovision-song-contest-111301645.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 14, 2016, 05:38:05 PM
In a further humiliation to midget putin, the country which he considers not a real country being Ukraine, wins this year's Eurovision Song Contest.

Ooops Russia even misses out on 2nd place, won by a country not even in Europe.

President huilo's country did managed to scrap in third, befitting of their third world status.

http://us.yahoo.com/music/26-countries-compete-final-eurovision-song-contest-111301645.html

Yeah-- consigned to the salt mines !Maybe they should have asked the doping section of the Kremlin how they could cheat!

I did hear that  the winners  singing(Ukrainian btw) was distorted on Russian TV to make it sound bad.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20843.msg430864;topicseen#msg430864
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 14, 2016, 08:30:31 PM
I see the narrow minded troll has learned to write. Perhaps you will learn to read as well (understand maybe not so well), much of what is in print and on various media is little more than propaganda by ALL sides. The U.S. and Russia play the same game as well as every other country, group or political movement, corporations disseminate propaganda.

It is up to the individual to sift through the information and decide for themselves what the truth is or what they want it to be. Right/Wrong, Good/Bad, Evil/Righteous or any other label someone wants to place on someone or something are just that labels based on personal experience, prejudices and preconceived ideas based on fact or belief.   


No, the narrow minded troll (you) has NOT learned to write. Your uneducated use of English makes me wonder how much Dmitry pays you to post such garbage. Perhaps I'll rib him about it next week. He is really scraping the bottom of the cess pool these days.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on May 15, 2016, 03:42:08 AM
Mendy, I will not feed the troll; instead, I will just call him out, tersely, when he insults the members here with his ludicrous comments and links.

 :zap:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 15, 2016, 04:58:34 AM
Quote from: sleepycat

I did hear that  the winners  singing(Ukrainian btw) was distorted on Russian TV to make it sound bad.

OMG..again?

Believe me....that's nonsense...
I watched it on Russian Tv AND checked the 'veracity' of such a claim on the BBC.

And some folks think Russians have the upper hand in silliness?!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 15, 2016, 05:22:30 AM

"I did hear that  the winners  singing(Ukrainian btw) was distorted on Russian TV to make it sound bad."

Hey Moby, these are JayH's words in post#4675 not mine.
Please show due care before assigning blame.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 15, 2016, 07:04:23 AM
"I did hear that  the winners  singing(Ukrainian btw) was distorted on Russian TV to make it sound bad."

Hey Moby, these are JayH's words in post#4675 not mine.
Please show due care before assigning blame.

I humbly apologise - no excuses - other than I was still laughing at the 'third world' comment and thinking of you ..



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 15, 2016, 07:45:13 AM
Demanding that Russia give back Crimea is  :deadhorse: , not going to happen any more than Israel will give back Jerusalem or the U.S. would give back the lands taken by force of arms from the Native people.

It is time to move on.


 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 15, 2016, 09:01:28 AM
TP, I am one who thinks that it will be a long time before Crimea is returned, if ever.

However, I have a brain and thus understand that when Ukraine gave up nukes, part of the deal was that Russia would respect Ukraine's existing borders.

Having a brain, I also understand that a referendum is rigged when the only two questions on the ballot were options to leave Ukraine and join Russia as part of the Federation, or as a protectorate.

Having a brain means that I understand that there was no ballot option for remaining in Ukraine.

With a functioning brain, I understand that turning away voters who held Ukrainian passports is a sure way to ensure that Ukrainians living in Crimea could not vote.

Ah, that same brain allows me to remember the Crimean Duma being ousted overnight (as a majority were Russians it still begs the question as to why) and announcing a new Duma the next morning is a COUP. Especially since the new leader was a Russian citizen with no dual (Ukrainian) citizenship--something outlawed in both the Crimean and Ukrainian constitutions.

Using my brain, I understand that when Yanukonvikt's Party of Regions, still holding a majority in Kyiv, voted to impeach him, that was NOT a coup, regardless of how much drivel and vomit the folk in Moscow try to feed those of you in the troll factories.

My brain also kicks into gear when remenbering a press conference at which a certain president insisted that those unmarked troops dropped from hundreds of helo sorties coming from the Russian border were not really Russian soldiers, but instead were average Crimeans who had gone shopping down at the corner Army Surplus store. Oh, but a year later he reversed the story, and in order to bolster his poll numbers, bragged on Russian television how the annexation of Crimea with his unmarked forces had been accomplished.

You are a sick, pathetic, useless troll.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 15, 2016, 11:07:12 AM
TP, I am one who thinks that it will be a long time before Crimea is returned, if ever.

However, I have a brain and thus understand that when Ukraine gave up nukes, part of the deal was that Russia would respect Ukraine's existing borders.

Having a brain, I also understand that a referendum is rigged when the only two questions on the ballot were options to leave Ukraine and join Russia as part of the Federation, or as a protectorate.

Having a brain means that I understand that there was no ballot option for remaining in Ukraine.

With a functioning brain, I understand that turning away voters who held Ukrainian passports is a sure way to ensure that Ukrainians living in Crimea could not vote.

Ah, that same brain allows me to remember the Crimean Duma being ousted overnight (as a majority were Russians it still begs the question as to why) and announcing a new Duma the next morning is a COUP. Especially since the new leader was a Russian citizen with no dual (Ukrainian) citizenship--something outlawed in both the Crimean and Ukrainian constitutions.

Using my brain, I understand that when Yanukonvikt's Party of Regions, still holding a majority in Kyiv, voted to impeach him, that was NOT a coup, regardless of how much drivel and vomit the folk in Moscow try to feed those of you in the troll factories.

My brain also kicks into gear when remenbering a press conference at which a certain president insisted that those unmarked troops dropped from hundreds of helo sorties coming from the Russian border were not really Russian soldiers, but instead were average Crimeans who had gone shopping down at the corner Army Surplus store. Oh, but a year later he reversed the story, and in order to bolster his poll numbers, bragged on Russian television how the annexation of Crimea with his unmarked forces had been accomplished.

You are a sick, pathetic, useless troll.

Perhaps you should use that brain to realize the you can complain all you want, you can rant all you want. It will not change anything. It is time to move on.

Russia has Crimea and is not in any foreseeable future going to give it back anymore than  Israel will give back Jerusalem or the U.S. would give back the lands taken by force of arms from the Native people.

You may not like those facts but that is the reality most of us live in. Perhaps you live in another reality?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 15, 2016, 11:26:00 AM


You are a sick, pathetic, useless troll.



Whoa there big guy! 


 TP is stating his opinion, and there are aspects of it that are NOT unreasonable.  Is there a specific reason that you are labeling him a 'sick pathetic useless troll? I seriously doubt that he is being paid by the Kremlin to post, but it wold seem he is making some analogies that do make sense, and are worth addressing.    I'd say his arguments can be addressed without the name calling.  There are a few posters that are on the other extreme, and I don't see you reprimanding/labeling them....I'm sensing some extreme bias. 


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 15, 2016, 11:28:30 AM
Perhaps you should use that brain to realize the you can complain all you want, you can rant all you want. It will not change anything. It is time to move on.

This isn't going to happen TP. This is the 21C. Putin can try to justify his stunts in Ukraine, to divert from the economic crisis - but a reckoning there will be.  You sometimes speak of war..it's already happening .. it just hasn't involved any western nations.

Perhaps you live in another reality?


Nope, we live in Russia... we see a nation with super weapons, super rich and teachers having their salaries cut and civil servants losing their jobs and food prices still rising way faster than pensions/ salaries.

What Putin fears most is people power.  He may need further distractions.

Please add me to your list of 'trolls' ..  :D



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 15, 2016, 11:41:07 AM


Whoa there big guy! 

Enter FT - 'the voice of reason'... :D


 TP is stating his opinion, and there are aspects of it that are NOT unreasonable.

My opinion is that TP and you like to play devil's advocate - hoping for a 'reaction'..

In the case of Crimea - he seems to believe militarly creating the circumstances for insurrection in neighbouring nations is something 'we' should allow - as trying to stop it might bring war ...

Then he is suggesting 'move on' while VVP plans his next move in trying to create his 'novorossiya'  :puke:

I have no idea IF TP has been in Russia / Ukraine, recently...His posts - like yours - would suggest not

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 15, 2016, 12:03:47 PM
Enter FT - 'the voice of reason'... :D

My opinion is that TP and you like to play devil's advocate - hoping for a 'reaction'..

In the case of Crimea - he seems to believe military creating the circumstances for insurrection in neighbouring nations is something 'we' should allow - as trying to stop it might bring war ...

Then he is suggesting 'move on' while VVP plans his next move in trying to create his 'novorossiya'  :puke:

I have no idea IF TP has been in Russia / Ukraine, recently...His posts - like yours - would suggest not

Actually I was in Russia for 10 weeks last winter, while my wife and daughter were visiting family and friends. I went south on business to the Russian/Ukraine border and I am fully aware of the myriad of issues facing the most of the average working people.

Sanctions have spurred Russia to find new trading partners, there is a renewed drive to produce goods locally. This will in time (and it takes a lot of time) will reduce Russia's external needs, eventually making the Russian economy stronger. Russia currently selling a lot of grain globally, mostly because of the weak Ruble, but that is how economies work.

You may not like the way Russia is run today but unless you are willing to personally become involved then you have zero voice in how things might change for the better.

I understanding that sitting at a computer and complaining is easier than actually trying to change things but will that solve anything?

The results of change are never instantaneous, these things take time. As to if the Russian people will wait, only time will tell.  
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on May 15, 2016, 12:10:15 PM

You may not like those facts but that is the reality most of us live in. Perhaps you live in another reality?


"Another reality"? You are such a poseur, pretending to be an American and writing at an English level that is certainly less proficient than that of an average native-born speaker who is thirteen years old.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 15, 2016, 12:16:53 PM
Perhaps you should use that brain to realize the you can complain all you want, you can rant all you want. It will not change anything. It is time to move on.

Russia has Crimea and is not in any foreseeable future going to give it back anymore than  Israel will give back Jerusalem or the U.S. would give back the lands taken by force of arms from the Native people.

You may not like those facts but that is the reality most of us live in. Perhaps you live in another reality?



Again, use your brain. And, read.


On one small point, you are singing to the choir because I said:

Quote
TP, I am one who thinks that it will be a long time before Crimea is returned, if ever.


You repeat your drivel about "moving on" because you have no defense against facts.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2016, 12:17:07 PM
cc3, he's NOT pretending to be an American, he is American,  but otherwise your description is fairly accurate!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2016, 12:39:37 PM
>Actually I was in Russia for 10 weeks last winter, while my wife and daughter were visiting family and friends.

Actually, according to your wife, you were in Texas during this time period, read for yourself here:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Viktoria-The-Russian-Chefina/1538908709661884
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: cc3 on May 15, 2016, 12:56:00 PM
Krimster, I'm married to a Russian speaker who is very proficient in English, but, not being an English native speaker, she makes mistakes in expressing herself, most frequently, because of the native Russian speaker's inexperience with articles and with the various forms of the verb 'to be'. TP's mistakes in English language usage are very similar to hers. I looked back at some of his initial posts eleven years ago, and, for the few that I scanned, I did not see the same mistakes as he makes now. Maybe he has been in Russia too long, or mostly communicating in that language with his wife and offspring...but his grasp of the English language has markedly deteriorated over the years. (Sorry TP...I call 'em as I see 'em).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 15, 2016, 01:08:22 PM
cc3, while I agree with what you're saying, I know quite a bit about Michael, er I mean "TP", and he currently lives with his wife Viktoria (who was Russian), at his sister-in-law's house in Melbourne, FL.  Michael, is just someone's whose conservative social view points resonates closely with contemporary Russian xenophobia, and so as a result he's become a Russian supporter, Steven Seagal the actor, would be a public figure with a comparable view point
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on May 15, 2016, 01:42:40 PM
 :wallbash: Fortuentally block/Ignore works well.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 15, 2016, 04:04:50 PM
Perhaps you should use that brain to realize the you can complain all you want, you can rant all you want. It will not change anything. It is time to move on.

Russia has Crimea and is not in any foreseeable future going to give it back anymore than  Israel will give back Jerusalem or the U.S. would give back the lands taken by force of arms from the Native people.

You may not like those facts but that is the reality most of us live in. Perhaps you live in another reality?


Funny you used the Israel analogy.  Israel gave quite a bit of conquered territory back in order to acheive peace.   Russia seems to do just the opposite.  It continues to exacerbate the situation in Ukraine.   You keep claiming that sanctions are bad for Western powers and not bad for Russia, therefore having little to no impact except ruining everyone's (but Russia's) economy. 

My take is that without sanctions and unity against Russia for its actions in Ukraine, the situation would be much worse.  A bully continues bullying until someone stands up against the bully.    Russia is an international bully in all ways.  Western powers will continue to rachet up the pressure against Russia.  And with Russia doing barrel rolls over American ships and confronting Western leaning countries everywhere possible, my guess is that sanctions and continued pressure against the Russian economy will not abate any time soon.

I do believe that the sanctions and continued diplomatic pressure are having a significant impact on Russia.  Russia is using the pushback to further alienate its own society against the West.  A proposed law, which heard its first ruling in the Duma last week will give Russia the ability to restrict foreign travel to anyone it considers to be a troublemaker.    This law is clearly intended to head off any support for internal dissent in Russia.  Another mark of a dictator abrogating freedoms.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 15, 2016, 04:07:44 PM
Enter FT - 'the voice of reason'... :D

At your service!  :D




My opinion is that TP and you like to play devil's advocate - hoping for a 'reaction'..


The implication here is that people like TP and myself, don't actually hold the belief we are saying we do, and are merely stating our case for grins.   I know you are mistaken in my case, and probably his case too.   You must be so certain you are correct that you don't allow for a completely different line of reasoning.  Believe it or not, a sensible case can be made for why Russia has done what it did.  Big nations often use what they have to swallow the smaller ones in one form or another...I don't see it so much as clear cut good guys and bad guys in the same light that you and many others here might.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 15, 2016, 07:29:31 PM
:wallbash: Fortuentally block/Ignore works well.

"Fortuentally????"  New one on me!  However, cc3, have you ever thought that it might just be Mrs Tiger Paws posting on her husband's account?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 15, 2016, 07:57:58 PM

It is time to move on. [/color]

Maybe it is also time for your beloved president huilo to move on in accepting his USSR had lost the cold war and there is absolutely nothing he can do to reassemble that pathetic commie empire...  :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 15, 2016, 10:19:40 PM
Actually I was in Russia for 10 weeks last winter, while my wife and daughter were visiting family and friends. I went south on business to the Russian/Ukraine border and I am fully aware of the myriad of issues facing the most of the average working people.

Not apparent from your postings..

Sanctions have spurred Russia to find new trading partners, there is a renewed drive to produce goods locally.

I think the word you are looking for is isolationism. Selling a lot of grain externally, but the price of bread internally goes up.

Let's be honest... you avoided my point about 'novorossiya' and responded as if we were purely talking economics.


You may not like the way Russia is run today but unless you are willing to personally become involved then you have zero voice in how things might change for the better.

What's to like about a policy of promoting polarisation in Ukraine followed by direction - tearing up treaties? I wanted Russia to take her place at the G8 - not to be regarded as a pariah state.

I understanding that sitting at a computer and complaining is easier than actually trying to change things but will that solve anything?

I'm a guest here and it is for the Russian people to figure out ...When it comes to customer service - I'm not afraid to try to change attitudes...  ;)

The results of change are never instantaneous, these things take time. As to if the Russian people will wait, only time will tell.

Indeed, Putin has been effectively in control since the late 1990's - he has done very well for himself - and his mates. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 16, 2016, 07:37:21 AM
Recession not going away any time soon for Russia...  :popcorn:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/morgan-stanley-on-the-state-of-the-russian-economy-2016-5?r=US&IR=T
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2016, 07:52:19 AM
Recession not going away any time soon for Russia...  :popcorn:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/morgan-stanley-on-the-state-of-the-russian-economy-2016-5?r=US&IR=T (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/morgan-stanley-on-the-state-of-the-russian-economy-2016-5?r=US&IR=T)


This is partly why TP's assertions on how sanctions have not hurt Russia, but are hitting its Western trading partners, are laughable.


Russia has a GDP less than 1/3 of that of any of its Western trading partners.   The main industries affected are oil and gas, which would have taken a hit in any event, and food at a little more than $8 billion, really, a drop in the bucket for the EU.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on May 16, 2016, 12:55:41 PM
Bad Vlad held a demonstration of a new Russian military truck in sochi. He tried to open the passenger side door but it wouldn't budge. Lt. General shevchenko came to assist him and pulled mightily on the door handle, which came off in his hands.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/05/14/potemkin-villages
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 16, 2016, 01:02:38 PM
Bad Vlad held a demonstration of a new Russian military truck in sochi. He tried to open the passenger side door but it wouldn't budge. Lt. General shevchenko came to assist him and pulled mightily on the door handle, which came off in his hands.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/05/14/potemkin-villages


Moby did it!   :clapping:  Supposedly there's a video on UTUBE.    ;D Or it maybe just a rumor.. :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 16, 2016, 05:41:18 PM
Ahhh The thrill is gone.. The newness has worn off.

 Russians aren't interested in vacation travel to Krym. The Moscow Times reports that there is a 25% drop in tourism.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/crimea-sees-sharp-drop-in-russian-tourists/569608.html

Earlier they had reported about Russians reducing their travel abroad by 30%. It seems that times are tough and moneys tight. It seems to me that they'd rather spend for food.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sleepycat on May 17, 2016, 06:02:22 PM
Krim residents stealing sand from the beaches by the truck load...

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-36314586

You know the economy is officially in the gutter when people have to resort to stealing sand to use as free building material.  :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 17, 2016, 06:28:08 PM
Krim residents stealing sand from the beaches by the truck load...

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-36314586

You know the economy is officially in the gutter when people have to resort to stealing sand to use as free building material.  :popcorn:

Maybe Ukrainian sand tastes better than Russian dirt  ! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 18, 2016, 01:09:01 AM

A month after Vladimir Putin's big live call-in show.( Despite some of our "experts" here telling us all is well !!) it seems some of the participants aren't exactly doing so well.


The Tsar Has No Clothes



http://www.rferl.org/content/daily-vertical-transcript-tsar-has-no-clothes/27740298.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 18, 2016, 03:12:32 AM
 :rolleyes: :rolleyes:   Ewww! Who'd want to see a naked dwarf?  :tmi: :tmi:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 21, 2016, 02:12:14 AM
Ozzie lawyers have filed a 10 Million (each) lawsuit against the Huilomesier and Russia in the European Court of Human Rights for the families of the victims of Flight MH17 that was shot down by a Russian BUK missile.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-mh-idUSKCN0YC06P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 24, 2016, 10:36:41 AM
Russia can't pay pensioners in Krym. They're broke, no money.  :rolleyes: 

http://en.sobytiya.info/russian-prime-minister-explained-pensioners-in-crimea-that-there-was-no-money.html

"It's the war, everyone must make some sacrifices"
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 24, 2016, 10:40:51 AM
Hmmm...

Inaccurate to the point of deliberate deceit?!

Can't index pensions..

Your 'headline'  suggests no pensions are being paid at all.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 24, 2016, 11:01:51 AM
It says in Krym.. It doesn't say throughout Russia.  :wallbash: 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 24, 2016, 12:31:16 PM
There are lies, bigger lies, and then there are Russian lies.   :rolleyes:

Russian state TV recently was caught red handed with fake reporting by French media.  :wallbash:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/french-tv-exposes-fake-russian-news-report/570053.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 24, 2016, 07:30:08 PM
It says in Krym.. It doesn't say throughout Russia.  :wallbash:

Nice 'try' at deflecting your latest 'misinfo'

You told us ..

Russia can't pay pensioners in Krym. They're broke, no money.

It can and is ... it isn't index linking them - taking into account inflation

Why can't you post the truth? 'Gilding the lilly' just means you're posts won't get the attention you seek ...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 24, 2016, 07:48:56 PM
Read what it says.. Russia is not paying pensions in Krym.. It has no money to pay the pensions..

Why is that so hard for you to understand?  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 24, 2016, 07:58:32 PM
They must have "shot their wad" on that extension cord and the "maybe someday" bridge from nowhere?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 24, 2016, 08:19:16 PM
Read what it says..

Quite..

Russia is not paying pensions in Krym..

Not true... 2nd time ..Follow your own advice..

It has no money to pay the pensions..

Why is that so hard for you to understand?  :cluebat:

You will 'get it', soon .. He says there is no money to INDEX pensions - not to not pay them at all  :welcome:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on May 24, 2016, 08:36:27 PM
Mike, here is what I see from the article.

According to the Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, pensions will not be indexed due to lack of funds.

Medvedev said about this, answering questions during his visit to Crimea.

One of the pensioners began to complain loudly the Premiere about 8 thousand rubles of pension (about 120 dollars) not sufficient for living standards in Crimea, due to “the outrageous prices.” “What is 8 thousand now? It’s nothing!” she flew into a rage and complained that there was no pension indexation in Crimea.

Medvedev replied that indexation is not carried out anywhere else in Russia. “We can’t do it in one place only. There is no indexation.

- - - - - -  -
 
It's the incomplete headline that is misleading.  Medvedev's actual words spoke there was no money for increasing (indexing) the pension payments to people in Crimea or anywhere in Russia.

The headline should  have more directly said this rather than short-cutting it by saying there was 'no money' rather than saying there was no money to finance increases.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 24, 2016, 08:38:08 PM
The end results is that they're not paid in full.  Because they don't have the cash!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 25, 2016, 03:19:28 AM
The end results is that they're not paid in full.  Because they don't have the cash!

Sighs..


Why don't you READ the article more than once ....before posting nonsense...then when others point out your howler...you get uppety....

They ARE being paid in full..

The point is...it's not enough....taking into account inflation...particularly in Crimea.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 25, 2016, 03:32:26 AM
Sighs..

Moby... trying to engage a rock is a useless endeavor.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 25, 2016, 08:05:04 AM
Ukraine doesn't index pensions either, so the Crimeans are no worse off.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 25, 2016, 08:08:33 AM
Does anyone know the relative value of the pensions paid in Ukraine compared to the pensions paid in Russia?  It would be interesting to know. 

Also, how much is the inflation in Krim compared to when the Russians took over?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 25, 2016, 12:10:29 PM
Medvedev, " We don't have the money now"


http://www.rferl.org/media/video/crimea-medvedev-pensioners/27754494.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 25, 2016, 01:01:58 PM
If memory serves me correctly (and it very rarely does these days) the Russian government promised at the time of the takeover that Krim pensioners  would get their full pensions, an amount which was substantially more than they were getting from Ukraine at the time.  Now, I understand the article.  I also understand what Medvedev is saying. 

He is saying that they cannot pay the promised amount relative to the time that the takeover occurred.  Obviously the shortage of cash in cash starved Crimea is creating additional hardship for everyone.  But people on a fixed pension are getting less and less. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on May 25, 2016, 02:10:48 PM

He is saying that they cannot pay the promised amount relative to the time that the takeover occurred. 

I know nothing about nothing . . . but I don't agree with this idea of yours Jon.

To me it's pretty clear.

I think Crimea folks are getting the same pension as people in Russia . . . neither of which has been indexed or increased for inflation.  Don't know when the last adjustment upward was.

The Crimea complainers are wanting an upward adjustment of their pension (apparently above what folks in Russia are getting) because of extreme inflation in Crimea.

Crimea folks are getting paid.  There is no shortage of cash for the basic pension payment.

Their pension payment from Russia is higher than they were getting from Ukraine.  But after inflation is accounted for . . . the buying power of this pension is smaller than their buying power when Ukraine was in control.

There is a shortage of cash to pay for the increased pensions that Crimea folks want.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 25, 2016, 02:50:04 PM
I thought I said that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 25, 2016, 05:35:26 PM
The Bridge update!

Russia’s Kerch Bridge: Time to Act for Ukraine

Building the Kerch Bridge is about much more than addressing a transportation or logistics challenge: it is about confirming Russia’s delusional superpower status and imaginary might, Kazarin argues. Even the fact that the project is being overseen by Putin’s personal friend is, in Kazarin’s opinion, the best illustration of the Kremlin’s willingness to build the bridge at any price, no matter the country’s accumulating economic problems and forced cutbacks in budget spending.

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=45466&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=7&cHash=171f360ceffc4b50f1230880643d6344#.V0Y73r6t-qG
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on May 26, 2016, 12:07:36 AM
Medvedev, " We don't have the money now"
http://www.rferl.org/media/video/crimea-medvedev-pensioners/27754494.html

Russians know Medvedev is an idiot, but you, Ak-Mike, is a triple idiot. You posted a link that proves that you gave the fake information.  ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 26, 2016, 12:24:13 AM
Russians know Medvedev is an idiot, but you, Ak-Mike, is a triple idiot. You posted a link that proves that you gave the fake information.  ;D

So what would that make you? And a dozen others that have repeatedly promoted blatant Putin and Kremlin lies  ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 26, 2016, 12:25:13 AM
JayH

I read the article - which, truthfully, points out how the tender to build the project was handed out and the delays.

But

I took issue with the author's stating ..''The bout of great-power euphoria sparked by the 2014 annexation of Crimea did not last long in Russia.'' ..He wasn't wasn't observing the mood of folks on May 9th 2016. One needs to understand that Crimea 'coming back' was a massive uplift in spirit to Russians and the only 'bad news'  would be it being forcibly taken.


As for Court action - that might have been 'auto-suggestion' on the part of the author - as none of the options would stop what is going to be be Putin's lasting legacy or his folly. Time will tell.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 26, 2016, 07:19:04 AM
Russians know Medvedev is an idiot, but you, Ak-Mike, is a triple idiot. You posted a link that proves that you gave the fake information.  ;D


I posted the link as per the rules showing the source of the info dummy.. :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on May 26, 2016, 03:46:55 PM
The Bridge update!

http://news.mail.ru/society/25865636/

Turkey has significantly reduced prices on travel packages. Now it is not clear which the Kerch bridge direction will be more profitable  :P.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 27, 2016, 04:25:14 PM
Despite  our forum "experts"telling us all how good things are in Russia-- the numbers say the downward spiral in the Russian economy continues.
Putin is desperate to ger sanctions eased/lifted  and is actively trying to divide the EU on the issue.The likelihood is for sanctions to be widened further-Putin and his Kremlin idiots still dont seem to be getting the message.

RUSSIAN ECONOMY FINALLY DIES: RECENT FIGURES PLUNGED INTO SHOCK

http://newsonline24.com.ua/ekonomika-rf-doxnet-okonchatelno-svezhie-cifry-povergayut-v-shok
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 27, 2016, 05:49:13 PM
The gaping chasm of Russia's financial problems was futilely attempted  to be stopped by a $3 billion bond sale. The only problem is that few wanted to back the Russian Government after the theft of Crimea and the invasion of eastern Ukraine. Only $1.75 billion worth of debt was sold even with a generous 4.75 interest rate. Speculation is that much of the money was cycled thru the west to show interest when it may have originated from within Russia.

The last attempt at bond sales was 3 years ago. Last February a feeble attempt was made  and 25 major western banks turned their noses up at the idea.  :clapping:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/was-russias-first-bond-sale-in-3-years-a-success/570254.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 27, 2016, 06:00:35 PM
Meanwhile on the on the food front, the Moscow Times and Vedomosti reports that 90% of the salmon on the store shelves doesn't meet standards and 58% is totally unsafe.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/most-of-moscows-salmon-not-fit-for-purchase-says-watchdog/570364.html

Yet Medvedev desire's to extend the import of foods from the west until the end of 2017.  :wallbash:
This is a knee jerk reaction to western sanctions against Russia.. But it appears to be cutting off his nose to spite his face in the end run. Russian people suffer the increased prices, and the lack of western quality control so common in the west.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/medvedev-wants-russia-s-food-ban-extended-til-end-of-2017/570709.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 27, 2016, 06:16:35 PM
Meanwhile in the space race Russia admitted that there is a problem. Funny how there is such a shift away from science to war and the results from that.

"Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin has been left red-faced after telling reporters that “Russia will never catch up to the United States in the space race,” the Interfax news agency reported.

“Our space industry has fallen behind the Americans ninefold. All of our ambitious projects require us to up productivity 150 percent – and even if we manage that, we will still never catch up with them,” Rogozin originally said to Interfax Friday".

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-space-industry-nine-times-behind-us-says-rogozin/570708.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 27, 2016, 06:30:17 PM
This article from the head of socio-cultural research at Russia’s Levada-Center Alexei Levinson explains a lot of the mindset of many Russians and why they support things their government wants. Especially in regard to Ukraine and their wanting to align with Europe.,

http://www.unian.info/politics/1354792-russian-sociologist-i-believe-it-is-too-painful-for-the-russian-mind-to-assume-ukrainians-are-successful-in-their-movement-toward-europe.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on May 27, 2016, 10:28:17 PM
Quote from: JayH

[size=18pt
RUSSIAN ECONOMY FINALLY DIES: RECENT FIGURES PLUNGED INTO SHOCK[/size]


You should pray it doesn't happen :P. Just think how boring and dull your life will be without copypasting ukrainian sources in this thread.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 27, 2016, 10:54:08 PM
Actually it'd be nirvana. We wouldn't have to worry about the security of our family and friends trying to live a fruitful life with out fear of more deaths from the Russian army invaders.

 You need to read that link from Unian.info
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 27, 2016, 11:11:32 PM
You should pray it doesn't happen :P. Just think how boring and dull your life will be without copypasting ukrainian sources in this thread.

Did you actually read the source that was being quoted in the article?
You can also read (in English) many sources quoting similar numbers--or do you still only believe ANYTHING that comes from a Kremlin "story"?
You do read the Russian-but even those who do not can see the minus numbers !!

Quote
"Well, here you straight from the tin Rosstat with new data on the state of the economy in April, of which, for example, it follows that the fall in real incomes, accelerated and reached the maximum value for the year. Real disposable income - minus 7.1%, real wages - minus 1.7%, retail sales - minus 4.8%. This, remember, already in comparison with indicators of a failure last spring - a spiral of falling incomes of the population is twisted even further, "low base effect", dreamed of optimists, not earned."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on May 28, 2016, 12:00:23 AM
Despite  our forum "experts"telling us all how good things are in Russia-- the numbers say the downward spiral in the Russian economy continues.

The truth is that recovering oil prices will - eventually- get VVP off the hook..

http://www.focus-economics.com/countries/russia (http://www.focus-economics.com/countries/russia)

''The economy will remain in recession this year. Weak private consumption is expected to be the main drag on growth in 2016 as high inflation, low wages and rising unemployment will continue to hit households’ spending. However, a gradual rise in oil prices and the stabilization of the currency will provide some support to growth. Analysts expect the economy to contact 1.3% this year, which is unchanged from last month’s forecast. For 2017, forecasters expect the economy to increase 1.3%.''



Putin is desperate to ger sanctions eased/lifted  and is actively trying to divide the EU on the issue.The likelihood is for sanctions to be widened further-Putin and his Kremlin idiots still dont seem to be getting the message.

I expect Greece's PM isn't getting your memos...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36403129 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36403129)
''Greece's Tsipras condemns sanctions against Russia'

The Greek prime minister has said sanctions imposed on Russia over its actions in Ukraine are not productive.''

Seriously, as much as Putin hopes to break the EU accord on sanctions - I think this is the Greek PM seeking a deal to reduce his nation's debt .


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 28, 2016, 01:22:32 AM
Does anyone know the relative value of the pensions paid in Ukraine compared to the pensions paid in Russia?  It would be interesting to know. 

Also, how much is the inflation in Krim compared to when the Russians took over?

I could not answer precisely earlier. Ukrainian pensions have just risen considerably( but not enough to compensate for mooted increases in gas,electricity and now water)

Ironically--Putin comments and gives answer.

Russian President Vladimir Putin believes that the words of Dmitry Medvedev's prime minister about the lack of funds on the indexing of pensions in the Crimea were taken out of context.
Putin acknowledged that the current economic situation in the Russian Federation - not easy.

"Pension average have $ 200 in US dollars, and in Ukraine $ 76. There is a difference? Yes, we have at least 4% indexed. In Ukraine, there is no any indexation, plus the increase in the retirement age," - tried otmazatsya his prime minister Putin.
http://glavred.info/politika/deneg-net-vy-derzhites-putin-otmazal-medvedeva-za-pensii-i-vspomnil-ukrainu-370178.html



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on May 28, 2016, 01:45:12 AM
Did you actually read the source that was being quoted in the article?
You can also read (in English) many sources quoting similar numbers--or do you still only believe ANYTHING that comes from a Kremlin "story"?
You do read the Russian-but even those who do not can see the minus numbers !!

Quote
"Well, here you straight from the tin Rosstat with new data on the state of the economy in April, of which, for example, it follows that the fall in real incomes, accelerated and reached the maximum value for the year. Real disposable income - minus 7.1%, real wages - minus 1.7%, retail sales - minus 4.8%. This, remember, already in comparison with indicators of a failure last spring - a spiral of falling incomes of the population is twisted even further, "low base effect", dreamed of optimists, not earned."

I'll have plenty of time to read any kinds of sources because of budget cuts it'll no work for me at college during the summer quarter :D. And it is not Russia. 3 days on strike.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 28, 2016, 09:38:06 AM
The G8 countries will remain the G7 as members have agreed to extend sanctions against Russia for the invasion of Ukraine, as well as add further measures because of Russia's failure with the Minsk Agreements. :clapping:

http://www.rferl.org/content/g7-cameron-russia-sanctions/27761035.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 28, 2016, 11:27:44 AM
The G8 countries will remain the G7 as members have agreed to extend sanctions against Russia for the invasion of Ukraine, as well as add further measures because of Russia's failure with the Minsk Agreements. :clapping:

http://www.rferl.org/content/g7-cameron-russia-sanctions/27761035.html

At the same time Putin stated:

Quote
"As far as Crimea is concerned, we consider this question is closed forever. This was a historical decision taken by the people that live in Crimea. Russia will not conduct any discussions with anyone on this subject," said Putin.

http://www.voanews.com/content/putin-warns-of-retaliation-against-us-missile-shield-in-europe/3349885.html

Meanwhile further sanctions from the west will just harden the lines on both sides.  With UA's internal political problems and corruption don't expect much in the way of financial assistance from the west.  We'll see when next winter sets in if UA is able to pay their gas bills or if the west is prepared to feed gas to them at a loss or maybe even for free.  The military climate is getting quite chilly and China investing heavily.  With UA desperately needing cash China is surely buying at rock bottom prices and setting up deals that will benefit one side more than the other in the long term.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 11:33:27 AM
Russia should continue to be subject to sanctions for the illegal annexation of Crimea.


As for Ukraine, sales are not for the benefit of the state or its people.  It's for the benefit of corrupt politicians.  Perhaps it will need to collapse before things improve.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 28, 2016, 12:42:56 PM
As for Ukraine, sales are not for the benefit of the state or its people.  It's for the benefit of corrupt politicians.  Perhaps it will need to collapse before things improve.

China understands this very well.  It seems the more corrupt a nation is the more China is willing to invest and loan.  In return they get natural resources.  Something like investing in building big highways in exchange for lumber or mining rights.  In the end the resources will be gone and an empty highway to nowhere left behind.  It's actually a grand deal if one does the math.. and a lot cheaper than having to pay for the highways on their own dime to get resources to port.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 01:12:24 PM
China's trade with Ukraine is largely in agriculture.  It has, to some extent, revived Ukrainian agriculture.

Ukraine has surpassed the U.S. as China's number one importer of corn.  China also is leasing about 5% of Ukraine's agricultural lands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 28, 2016, 02:49:31 PM
At the same time Putin stated:

http://www.voanews.com/content/putin-warns-of-retaliation-against-us-missile-shield-in-europe/3349885.html

It's closed only in the Huilomeisters vacant mind. The rest of the world views it as an armed invasion. There was no legitimate vote, only a encephalitic idiot would believe anything else.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 02:58:54 PM
There was a referendum, and while it was not without flaws, no one can honestly dispute that at the time, it reflected the wishes of a majority of Crimeans.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 28, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
There was a referendum, and while it was not without flaws, no one can honestly dispute that at the time, it reflected the wishes of a majority of Crimeans.

And you cant honestly say it did reflect the wishes of a MAJORITY-only YOUR opinion.

EG-- being held up at the point of a gun and handing over your money-- no one could honestly say that did not reflect your wish at that time-- would it. Now the point being-- what other option was there-at the time= none. In the Crimeans case--no choice.
The bottom line of your oft repeated comment--is that is is rubbish.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 03:31:45 PM
The bottom line is you need to read more broadly and without Ukrainian nationalist blinders on.  And, I say this as one who is a true Ukrainian patriot.


Yes, the majority of Crimeans were in support of joining Russia.  This is not even disputed by Ukrainians.  The Razumkov Centre had numerous polls on this very issue, and in most, about 70% of Crimeans wished to secede and join Russia (according to polls in 2001, 2008, and 2011 - there may be more, I haven't read thme all).  It is not "rubbish" to admit reality.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 28, 2016, 03:45:57 PM
There was a referendum, and while it was not without flaws, no one can honestly dispute that at the time, it reflected the wishes of a majority of Crimeans.

  That's totally wrong Boe. 
 Two choices on the rigged ballot. And neither option was to remain with Ukraine. This vote was only after the armed take over of the Krym government their expulsion and the installation of unelected Kremlin puppets. Then there's the fake voter turn out numbers..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 03:48:32 PM
I am aware of the referendum, plus the fact that Russia engaged in media censorship before the vote.  Nevertheless, the majority of Crimeans supported joining Russia.  That predated the invasion, and has been the case for at least a decade.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 28, 2016, 04:00:49 PM
Have a look at this 2014 Forbes article for the faked numbers.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/#6748c13a10ff



Then there's the actual ballot and the options that were available from the Kremlin's sock puppet government.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26514797
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 04:08:43 PM
Go to the Razumkov Centre, the preeminent research centre in Ukraine (funded by the US government, incidentally) and read their polls on Crimea.  They consistently show that a majority of Crimeans wanted to join Russia.   That is a fact.

Crimea has never been "Ukrainian".  You would never hear Ukrainian on the streets of any Crimean city.  Even after independence, relatively few individuals there spoke Ukrainian, and they didn't have to, given their autonomous status.

Finally, Crimea was always a net drain on the Ukrainian economy.  I don't think that has changed for the Russians.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on May 28, 2016, 04:11:42 PM
Mike and Jay, you need to listen and understand what Boe is saying.

Yes, Russia sent in military to effect their takeover.
Yes, the election had flaws.
Yes, there was no option on the ballot to stay with Ukraine.

But, the population was overwhelmingly of Russian ethnic descent who really did want to join with Russia.  This is only common sense.

So a fair election, with an option to remain with Ukraine, and with no Russian military presence would have lead to the same result  . . . i.e. join Russia.

Now, of course, another issue is:  was this a legal action?

No, it was not.  Parts of countries cannot take a vote to leave and join another country.  Usually constitutions, etc., prohibit it.

And our man Lincoln said he would string up his mother if she participated in trying to split off part of the USA.

But the current issues are . . . should Ukraine want back a peoples who really don't want to be part of Ukraine? And should Ukraine want back a land area that has been a drain on the budget of Ukraine mostly forever?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 04:16:37 PM
Exactly, ML.  Thank you.


I do believe sanctions should remain in place against Russia and Crimea, because the annexation was contrary to international law.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 28, 2016, 04:36:44 PM
Mike and Jay, you need to listen and understand what Boe is saying.

Yes, Russia sent in military to effect their takeover.
Yes, the election had flaws.
Yes, there was no option on the ballot to stay with Ukraine.

But, the population was overwhelmingly of Russian ethnic descent who really did want to join with Russia.  This is only common sense.

So a fair election, with an option to remain with Ukraine, and with no Russian military presence would have lead to the same result  . . . i.e. join Russia.

Now, of course, another issue is:  was this a legal action?

No, it was not.  Parts of countries cannot take a vote to leave and join another country.  Usually constitutions, etc., prohibit it.

And our man Lincoln said he would string up his mother if she participated in trying to split off part of the USA.

But the current issues are . . . should Ukraine want back a peoples who really don't want to be part of Ukraine? And should Ukraine want back a land area that has been a drain on the budget of Ukraine mostly forever?

ML-- because SOME may have made other choices if it was an available option--is not justification of what unfolded.
As an example--if the question was being asked-- would you be better off? the answer back then on the simple $ amount comparisons- would have been "yes". That does not mean that there was grounds for Russia to have usurped part of Ukraine.
It was a piece of opportunistic invasion of a foreign country-- FULL STOP.

On the % who would have preferred Russia per se- even if it was at 70%- it is irrelevant. In the past-I have disputed that 70% figure-I have posted other numbers long ago. Additionally-I was quite close to someone involved in collecting data and analysis and the issue of alignment was not clear cut in the way numbers are attempted to be used.
   
 I have written previously on some guys I met- some months after the invasion.They had been on ships trapped and held by the Russians- they refused to surrender and hand over their ships.For months-they stayed. Amongst the many conversations this came up-"my family is Russian,I have always considered myself Russian,my family lives in Sevastopol- BUT-WE ARE ALL LOYAL UKRAINIANS." This guy-- and his friends-were bursting to do whatever was necessary to get Russia out of all Ukraine.

To this day--there are many loyal Ukrainians on the Crimea.They should not be abandoned.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 28, 2016, 04:48:15 PM
First, think about the words on the ballot paper. Crimea avoided the yes/no dichotomy traditionally favoured by referendum organisers, and offered instead two options:
1. Do you want to join Russia?
Or
 2. Do you want to make Crimea independent, by returning to the (abortive) constitution of 1992?

 Was this any sort of choice? That's hardly called a 'Flaw".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 04:51:03 PM
No one is saying the invasion was justified.  However, the reality is, the majority of Crimeans do not wish to be part of Ukraine.


Whether or not the referendum was flawed is also irrelevant to the facts of today. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 28, 2016, 04:51:17 PM
The bottom line is you need to read more broadly and without Ukrainian nationalist blinders on.  And, I say this as one who is a true Ukrainian patriot.


In the time after the invasion of the Crimea and in eastern Ukraine there were many who i consider patriotic Ukrainians countenancing the idea of letting go those Ukrainian territories--on the basis that it would appease Russia and leave the rest of Ukraine in peace.
It was  a valid idea that needed discussion- and even ardent patriots contemplated it.
My view was that conceding anything to Russia would be a mistake- and still is. That view was quite consistent with many patriots in Ukraine. As it has unfolded--that is a view now widely accepted in Ukraine-- and the views of many have hardened considerably.Today-any concessions being made to Russia in the east are being heavily opposed.
The idea of appeasing Russia to save Ukrainian lives and infrastructure was a valid consideration--AT THAT TIME- when the real possibility of Russian tanks rolling across all of Ukraine was very real possibility.
What has transpired and became clear as events moved quickly in 2014 was that Putin and the Kremlin was intent on destabilising Ukraine and cause as much harm as was possible-- a policy that they are still trying today.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 28, 2016, 04:59:34 PM

Whether or not the referendum was flawed is also irrelevant to the facts of today.

 Except that this is the basis of the "facts of today." It was totally illegal by any stretch of the imagination and that is the basis for Russia's 'annexation'.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 05:06:54 PM
I don't think it is appeasement to Russia to recognize that Crimea is gone.  I also don't think it is appeasement to isolate Donbas and let the criminals in charge keep on running it.

Donbas' primary source of wealth comes from coal, a dying industry. 

Ukraine would succeed by focusing on minimizing systemic corruption and raising the standard of living of its citizens, and pushing for a EU lead ceasefire in Donbas.

Incidentally, the outcome in Donbas was not unexpected.  I posted a video right after Yanukovych fled Ukraine, of Western Ukrainian politicians trying to take over a television station in Donbas.  There was no way that was going to fly in that region.

Also remember, that virtually every politicians from Western Ukraine now sitting in the Rada was part of the KGB in Soviet times.

For those who understand Russian, an excellent analysis of Ukraine by a Polish "journalist" -
http://youtu.be/Dgwdka4mCH0


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 05:07:48 PM
Except that this is the basis of the "facts of today." It was totally illegal by any stretch of the imagination and that is the basis for Russia's 'annexation'.


The annexation was illegal, yes.  However, you can't change what the people of that region want.  And it definitely is not Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 28, 2016, 05:18:56 PM
We don't know what the locals want because the vote was rigged right from the beginning under gunpoint. It'd be hard to vote with guns at your back. The voter numbers are skewed from what actually happened so your statement is not founded in facts.

 As you know both Krym and the Kuban region have much more history with Ukraine than with Russia. IIRC it was about 1919 when the USSR took Krym away from Ukraine's control and returned it in 1954 (while keeping Kuban)
 that's only 35 years under Russian/Soviet control.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 05:34:32 PM
We know from polls from Ukraine's preeminent think tank, that the majority of Crimeans wanted either (depending on the year) full autonomy, or reunification with Russia.

Actually, no, Crimea does not have "much more history with Ukraine than it does with Russia".  It was part of Kiev Rus', but Kiev Rus was a precursor to Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus.  It was not a "Ukrainian" state.  Crimea was the home base of Tatars, who made their raids into Ukraine from there.  The Ukrainians (who would not have self identified as "Ukrainian" then) living there were slaves taken in those raids.

In the mid 17th century and into the 18th century, Ukrainian hetmen and Cossacks had peace treaties, and even alliances with the Crimean Tatars.  They traded with them, but they did not occupy the lands.  By the late 18th century/early 19th century, Crimea was part of Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 28, 2016, 05:39:11 PM
Perhaps the posts pertaining to Crimea should be in Crimean thread?
While Ukraine wanting Crimea back is bad news for Russia-there is a more appropriate thread to discuss.
Leave the bad news thread to Russian matters !
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on May 28, 2016, 07:38:15 PM

The majority of Crimeans wanted to be with Russia. In the past, they tend vote for Russia's puppets to lead Ukraine's. The vote was illegal. Ukraine's constitution says all of it's citizens be included in the vote when there is to be any change of Ukraine's borders. Russia didn't let that happen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 28, 2016, 08:39:47 PM
The majority of Crimeans wanted to be with Russia. In the past, they tend vote for Russia's puppets to lead Ukraine's. The vote was illegal. Ukraine's constitution says all of it's citizens be included in the vote when there is to be any change of Ukraine's borders. Russia didn't let that happen.

Is that for real, Billy?  If it is, then Ukraine must surely be the only country with a constitution that envisages such a change.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 28, 2016, 08:46:43 PM
Is that for real, Billy?  If it is, then Ukraine must surely be the only country with a constitution that envisages such a change.
"Ukraine's constitution says all of it's citizens be included in the vote when there is to be any change of Ukraine's borders"
BB is correct.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on May 28, 2016, 09:08:47 PM
Is that for real, Billy?


Scroll down to read Article 73

http://www.infoukes.com/history/constitution/index-en.html

If it is, then Ukraine must surely be the only country with a constitution that envisages such a change.

I'm not going to go and read every country's constitution but I'm pretty sure ever country's constitution or laws prevent secession. There's always some individuals, some cities, or some states that are unhappy at any given time and threatens to leave and take land with them when they don't get their president or prime minister elected. They can leave their government peacefully without war if they have a bully such as Russia on their side. It's not legal but effective.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 28, 2016, 09:43:47 PM
Is that for real, Billy?  If it is, then Ukraine must surely be the only country with a constitution that envisages such a change.


It does, because its drafters, virtually all of whom were the children of Ukrainian DP's, and many of whom were Canadian, envisaged territorial incursions by Russia.  Anyone who knows Ukrainian history knows this was bound to occur. 


The secession is illegal by international law as well, which is why sanctions are in place.  However, de facto, Crimeans no longer wish to be part of Ukraine.  So be it.  Just keep the sanctions, and Crimean isolation in terms of the greater world, in place - no bank transactions, no international ships docking there (which was a big business before 2014), visa restrictions for Crimean politicians, etc.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 29, 2016, 12:53:08 AM
The real situation on the Crimea continues deteriorating-with Russia reneging on promised funds.

"As everyone knows," there is no money. " But in the Crimea on Wednesday I learned that this is not a figure of speech, but a very real situation "
"Crimea Economy Dives into a tailspin,"


"There's no money, you keep" - is not only a response to the Russian premiere of pensioners, it is very clear, genuine (according to Freud) message across the country. It is very symbolic that it was made precisely on the peninsula. In other regions, in response to a drop in the standard of living, you can answer, "but Crimea is ours!". But how to fend off the claims in the Crimea?

http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/ekonomyka-kryma-yz-pyke-perehodyt-v-shtopor-ekspert/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on May 29, 2016, 08:29:18 AM

The secession is illegal by international law as well, which is why sanctions are in place.  However, de facto, Crimeans no longer wish to be part of Ukraine.  So be it.  Just keep the sanctions, and Crimean isolation in terms of the greater world, in place - no bank transactions, no international ships docking there (which was a big business before 2014), visa restrictions for Crimean politicians, etc.


And the coup in Kiev was illegal and the Crimeans wanted no part in that. They then opted to be saved by Russia as the majority is ethnic Russians and there was ethnic cleansing of them in the cards.


Keep the sanctions, right. Easy to say for Americans that does not suffer it like the agricultural sector in western Europe, for example. For the Russians, they dig in and suffer for a few years. New markeds are made, new partners that westerners seems to forget even exist when they claim Russia is isolated. Sanctions are a form of war and Washington has declared it and forced it's European minions to go along even to it's own detriment. Then there are the ever increasing threat to Russia on its western border, missiles and other military gear. The madmen behind this is pushing the world to war and it seems most on RWD is quite happy about it. Well, not me!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 29, 2016, 09:58:01 AM

And the coup in Kiev was illegal and the Crimeans wanted no part in that. They then opted to be saved by Russia as the majority is ethnic Russians and there was ethnic cleansing of them in the cards.


Keep the sanctions, right. Easy to say for Americans that does not suffer it like the agricultural sector in western Europe, for example. For the Russians, they dig in and suffer for a few years. New markeds are made, new partners that westerners seems to forget even exist when they claim Russia is isolated. Sanctions are a form of war and Washington has declared it and forced it's European minions to go along even to it's own detriment. Then there are the ever increasing threat to Russia on its western border, missiles and other military gear. The madmen behind this is pushing the world to war and it seems most on RWD is quite happy about it. Well, not me!

You're never happy about anything.   If you went to Disneyland, you'd criticize the color of Mickey's shorts.  Nice to see you posting.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on May 29, 2016, 10:07:20 AM
You're never happy about anything.   If you went to Disneyland, you'd criticize the color of Mickey's shorts.  Nice to see you posting.


How do you know I'm not happy about anything? Do you think what little I post here sums up the whole of me?
As for Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, I'd say I prefer the original versions. And I'm happy we're soon off to Crimea, but then again, writing happy and positive things is not what the RWD forum want, is it?
Thanks though for wanting my postings. Sometimes I reckon a little balance is in order  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 29, 2016, 10:21:31 AM
Send me a post card from Krim.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on May 29, 2016, 10:41:56 AM
Send me a post card from Krim.


Krim? That's what we call it here in Norway. Just give me your address and I'll send you a card, mate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 29, 2016, 11:15:10 AM

And the coup in Kiev was illegal and the Crimeans wanted no part in that. They then opted to be saved by Russia as the majority is ethnic Russians and there was ethnic cleansing of them in the cards.

What a load of bunk. 

Given that the Verkhovna Rada followed constitutional procedures to impeach Yanukovych, it cannot be stated that a coup occurred.  The fact Yanukovych chose to flee the country like the coward he is, is on him.  No one else.

Crimea was autonomous, which was enshrined in the constitution, so what happens in Kyiv was of little importance to its residents.

Crimeans did not ask Russian special forces to invade them.  It was Crimeans who coined the term "little green men".  To make such a ludicrous claim is an insult to the intelligence of every poster here.

Ukraine's constitution provides equal rights to all.  There has never been an ethnic cleansing. or even a denial of language rights, carried out by Ukrainians in power against non Ukrainians in Ukraine.  There have been ethnic cleansings of Ukrainians by Russians, and forced Russification.  Learn some history!


How many political prisoners are languishing in Ukrainian jails?  How many in Russia? 

Quote
Keep the sanctions, right. Easy to say for Americans that does not suffer it like the agricultural sector in western Europe, for example. For the Russians, they dig in and suffer for a few years. New markeds are made, new partners that westerners seems to forget even exist when they claim Russia is isolated. Sanctions are a form of war and Washington has declared it and forced it's European minions to go along even to it's own detriment. Then there are the ever increasing threat to Russia on its western border, missiles and other military gear. The madmen behind this is pushing the world to war and it seems most on RWD is quite happy about it. Well, not me!

Too bad.  The sanctions are not a huge bite for any EU country. 

When a country ignores international law, it has to pay the consequences.  Crimeans want to be part of Russia.  Since this was done illegally, then they can suffer the consequences as well, which includes sanctions and the collapse of their international tourist industry.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on May 29, 2016, 11:33:45 AM
And the coup in Kiev was illegal and the Crimeans wanted no part in that.


As corrupt as Yanukovych was and the Ukrainian government wasn't willing to investigate and impeach him, I don't blame the citizens wanting better government.

If Russia feel America backed an illegal coup, they should take it up with the UN and petition the EU to join them in applying sanctions on America.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on May 29, 2016, 12:54:31 PM


Given that the Verkhovna Rada followed constitutional procedures to impeach Yanukovych, it cannot be stated that a coup occurred.  The fact Yanukovych chose to flee the country like the coward he is, is on him.  No one else.

Crimea was autonomous, which was enshrined in the constitution, so what happens in Kyiv was of little importance to its residents.

 

                                                                    :clapping: & there you go.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 29, 2016, 01:59:44 PM
Russia invaded and stole Krym and invaded the Donbas simply because Ukraine refused to join the EEU.  Without Ukraine it's doomed to fail. K-Stan and Belarus joined only because of monetary concessions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on May 29, 2016, 05:02:22 PM
What a load of bunk. 

Given that the Verkhovna Rada followed constitutional procedures to impeach Yanukovych, it cannot be stated that a coup occurred.  The fact Yanukovych chose to flee the country like the coward he is, is on him.  No one else.

Crimea was autonomous, which was enshrined in the constitution, so what happens in Kyiv was of little importance to its residents.

Crimeans did not ask Russian special forces to invade them.  It was Crimeans who coined the term "little green men".  To make such a ludicrous claim is an insult to the intelligence of every poster here.

Ukraine's constitution provides equal rights to all.  There has never been an ethnic cleansing. or even a denial of language rights, carried out by Ukrainians in Ukraine.  There have been ethnic cleansings of Ukrainians by Russians, and forced Russification.  Learn some history!


How many political prisoners are languishing in Ukrainian jails?  How many in Russia? 

Too bad.  The sanctions are not a huge bite for any EU country. 

When a country ignores international law, it has to pay the consequences.  Crimeans want to be part of Russia.  Since this was done illegally, then they can suffer the consequences as well, which includes sanctions and the collapse of their international tourist industry.

captured the essence of it perfectly bo  :clapping:
putin wanted to  illegally take crimea purely for the strategic military position of it

natural , enjoy your  krim vacation   i for one will never go back there while it remains under russian occupation

however i  feel sad for all those good people who are now stuck in crimea with this situation
SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 29, 2016, 05:27:40 PM
Thanks.

I modified my post slightly, to recognize that Ukrainians who have held political power have never conducted ethnic cleansings.  UPA did commit genocide, killing between 30,000 and 80,000 Poles (actual figures never established, as many fled the region).  UPA was also involved in the first pogrom in L'viv after German occupation, though the number of dead in that pogrom was less than 100.

Nevertheless, the allegation that there would be an "ethnic cleansing" of Russians was a ludicrous statement, hyperbole pulled out of someone's ____.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 29, 2016, 05:35:05 PM
For The Natural.  Ukrainians, ethnically cleansed, by a Russian citizen.  As confirmed by Amnesty International.

Want more examples?  How far back in history?

http://en.censor.net.ua/news/331965/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 29, 2016, 05:51:30 PM
Scroll down to read Article 73

http://www.infoukes.com/history/constitution/index-en.html

Thanks Billy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 29, 2016, 09:29:10 PM
Quote
And the coup in Kiev was illegal and the Crimeans wanted no part in that. They then opted to be saved by Russia as the majority is ethnic Russians and there was ethnic cleansing of them in the cards.


Absolute bullshit. The party that exercised their right to remove Yanukonvict out of office was the majority party at the time--the Party of Regions (Yanukonvicts party).


There was a coup: in Crimea. The pro-Russian Prime Minister and Rada of Crimea was ousted overnight by unmarked Russian troops. Then next morning a new, and unelected, parliament was APPOINTED.


As to ethnic cleansing--again pure hogwashed bullshit. The only ethnic cleansing planned for Crimea is the one currently cleansing the region of Tatar leaders.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 29, 2016, 09:41:13 PM
Had an interesting shopping trip with the Mrs yesterday. We shopped at two supermarkets: 7th Kontinent and at a Viktoria (upscale Dixie). I had not been aware of the reports on salmon, and so when asked what I'd like for dinner, pointed to the nearby fish counter at Viktoria.

Mrs M had heard however, and she filled me in. I walked over to the counter and couldn't see much difference, but did notice that all the salmon related stuff was on sale. She still won't buy ice cream as there is too much veggie oil substituted for milk if the labels she reads are factual. We did purchased some yogurt, a Danone product (Belarus) as it is a related company to the French Dannon of worldwide recognition. Otherwise she is hesitant to buy most of the dairy products supposedly made in Russia.

In reality, most of the dairy products sold on Russian supermarkets shelves and coolers these days comes from Belarus, or Western products smuggled in via Kazakhstan. The so-called Euroasian Union countries are a pressure release valve to keep the lid from blowing off. Such products are not a part of Western sanctions, but are illegal due to Russia's own sanctions against Western products. Russians can still get many of the same products (some are fakes), their Euroasian partners benefit, and the Kremlin saves face by insisting that products from the West are illegal in supermarkets.

Dacha gardens are beginning to yield their bounties and in the past days I've watched as spontaneous street markets have sprung up--individuals selling some very nice looking tomatoes, cucumbers and fruit. They carry things by buckets and baskets and seem to have a system to move to new locations (such activity is now illegal) quickly if the police arrive.

Even early this year one could purchase things inside the metro entrances when transfer stations and underground street access to Metro stations is available. I have not seen much of that this spring as the police have driven those folk out.

I will say that the seeming quality of dacha produce sold on streets seems magnificent. Yesterday we purchased some early cucumber (great taste) and several huge tomatoes which were very nice at dinner. It is too bad that such purchases are now deemed to be illegit--the government seems to drive everything toward the supermarkets with Oligarch ties.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: southernX on May 29, 2016, 11:55:58 PM
yes mendy i can agree with you on the darcha /street vendored cues , tomatoes , papriks & big red onions

a cold larder luncheon of cured meat & bread with a table full of spring /summer grown salad stuff is just the best taste ever

i really loved the big flat yalta onions dressed on a plate over the top of ripe sliced summer tomatoes & cues , drizzled with olive oil and balsamic vinegar


simple but amazing  ;)
SX
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 30, 2016, 08:57:44 AM
http://www.globalmeatnews.com/Industry-Markets/Russia-s-meat-industry-worried-by-oversupply
http://agroinfo.com/en/

Even taking all this at half face value, it is interesting that the self imposed import bans seem to be working towards diversification and less dependency on other countries for agricultural items.

There is a bit of concern at the WTO level with some of the retaliatory bans imposed by RU, 'for health reasons'.  If there were no negative effects for EU why even worry about it? http://www.globalmeatnews.com/Industry-Markets/WTO-ruling-on-Russia-s-trade-ban-expected-this-week

They may well end up lowering domestic prices and if they end up exporting on larger scale it might end up affecting the EU market even more by pushing prices down.  Remember EU still pays a lot to keep prices up on many agricultural goods, buying oversupplies to keep the market from dropping out and even here in my neck of the woods paying farmers to destroy their grape vines and not produce at all.

Sanctions the West throws at RU may in the long term end up costing EU more, leaving them a bit at odds with US pressures to raise the ante against RU over the UA crisis.

Interesting times ahead..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 30, 2016, 09:15:04 AM
BC,

When was the last time you were in Russia?  (I was there last fall for an extended period of time.)

While I understand the nature of the article, there is little of value there.  It is a puff piece to make everyone take note that Russia doing well in spite of the sanctions.  But those who have not lived there really have no idea.  Aside from the hideous cheese, we were spending about 50% more for meat and it consisted mostly of sausages as real meat cuts weren't available. 

The problem with Russian meat production is not that they can't grow the livestock, it is that the cereal grains are needed for things other than to grow meat to butcher.    Cereal grain export to countries like Mexico, in the face of a lack of oil exports, is one of the few hard currency items that Russia has to export.  So, the real issue is whether Russia wants to export grain or grow more pigs.  My bet is on the grain and your article, then, is misleading.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on May 30, 2016, 09:54:18 AM
BC,


The problem with Russian meat production is not that they can't grow the livestock, it is that the cereal grains are needed for things other than to grow meat to butcher.     So, the real issue is whether Russia wants to export grain or grow more pigs.  My bet is on the grain and your article, then, is misleading.

Yes, and as we all know they don't have any grass in Russia either. Russia is a very small country, mostly rocks, right? So it's impossible to grow either grains or grass to feed the livestock.

Isn't it wonderful to glee over Russia's misfortune? According to many westerners the Russians can't do anything right. But then, if they can't, how come you (especially US) are so afraid of them?  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 30, 2016, 10:14:32 AM
If you see a venomous snake from a distance you're not afraid. You're wary..

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 30, 2016, 10:46:45 AM

While I understand the nature of the article, there is little of value there.  It is a puff piece to make everyone take note that Russia doing well in spite of the sanctions. 

jone,

as far as the agroinfo.com site, yes it is a RU site and a bit propagandish, thus my 'taking at half value' comment.  Globalmeatnews.com on the other hand is not.  Furthermore a bit of 'angst' is noted in:

http://www.agra-net.com/agra/agra-europe/meat-livestock/pigmeat/hogan-confident-wto-will-rule-in-eus-favour-over-russian-pigmeat-ban-506845.htm

Quote
Polish MEP Czesław Adam Siekierski has put the question to the EU executive on behalf of ComAgri, which is also calling for pigmeat PSA to be re-opened – pointing to “significant downward pressure on prices” beyond the “normal cyclical periods” seen in the sector.

PSA = methods of stabilizing pork prices in EU
http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/pigmeat/private-storage/index_en.htm

Quote
private storage aid for pigmeat from 4 January 2016. This measure provides EU funding to help cover the costs of storing certain pigmeat products for periods of 3-5 months.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/19/reuters-america-interview-russian-meat-firm-miratorg-expects-weak-rouble-to-help-triple-sales.html

Quote
Russian meat producer Miratorg plans to launch new business lines, boost exports and triple sales within five years as the weaker rouble makes it more competitive locally and abroad, its co-owner and President Viktor Linnik told Reuters.

Yes, one can discount RU's propaganda but if one digs into the material a bit there is probably more truth than fiction.  I would not underestimate RU's resolve

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/345823.html
http://www.rt.com/business/341959-russia-meat-export-china/
http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/politics_and_society/2015/11/20/embargo_causing_huge_fish_revenue_losses/
http://www.foodnavigator-asia.com/Business/China-to-pump-100m-into-Russian-rabbit-complex

Just a bit of fat to chew on....
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on May 30, 2016, 11:26:10 AM
If you wish to visit places that know how to grow things like cows and pigs, visit the American Midwest. Grass really has less to do with it than the art of animal husbandry, of which Russia still lags decades behind in spite of laying claim to a sixth of the earth's surface.

The moment that farming is modernized in Russia (and today there is only token effort, in spite of promises even before sanctions) production will take off. But, when major farming efforts are controlled by Oligarchs, and the smaller farmers who could actually be successful were they not being forced into the role of serfs for the Oligarchs, there isn't enough grass in this part of the world to overcome the other obstacles that impede Russian progress.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 30, 2016, 12:55:22 PM
According to many westerners the Russians can't do anything right.

The past century or so tends to indicate this, at least in terms of agriculture.


A country can't kill its best farmers, mismanage agriculture for more than a century, then expect it to rebound miraculously. 




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 30, 2016, 12:57:32 PM
If you wish to visit places that know how to grow things like cows and pigs, visit the American Midwest.


And the Canadian prairies.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on May 30, 2016, 12:59:47 PM

Isn't it wonderful to glee over Russia's misfortune? According to many westerners the Russians can't do anything right. But then, if they can't, how come you (especially US) are so afraid of them?  ;)


It is a bit humorous to read the false glee from a few...at the end of the day this will pass, and Russia will remain standing, perhaps even strengthened. 


I was browsing the net this morning, and I saw this article from the LA Times that once again pierces the continued mistruth many tell regarding NATO expansion.  The article discusses the timelines, and doesn't justify Russian aggression, but rather gives reasoning as to why it happens...and it doesn't paint us (The US) as angels.  Sounds more truthful than the basic talking points I sometimes read here. 


  Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

.....The West has vigorously protested that no such deal was ever struck. However, hundreds of memos, meeting minutes and transcripts from U.S. archives indicate otherwise. Although what the documents reveal isn’t enough to make Putin a saint, it suggests that the diagnosis of Russian predation isn’t entirely fair. Europe’s stability may depend just as much on the West’s willingness to reassure Russia about NATO’s limits as on deterring Moscow’s adventurism.....

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html)




Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on May 30, 2016, 01:38:24 PM
The past century or so tends to indicate this, at least in terms of agriculture.


A country can't kill its best farmers, mismanage agriculture for more than a century, then expect it to rebound miraculously.

I think you missed my point. I said anything, not agriculture in particular. Don't know how well or bad they do it compared to other countries. Just know I wouldn't want to eat meat produced with steroid shots and antibiotics in the GM feed, like they do in USA. Fortunately that's illegal in Europe, but with the "trade deal" I'm sure The Empire will export this great practise too.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 30, 2016, 01:50:28 PM
I think you missed my point. I said anything, not agriculture in particular. Don't know how well or bad they do it compared to other countries. Just know I wouldn't want to eat meat produced with steroid shots and antibiotics in the GM feed, like they do in USA. Fortunately that's illegal in Europe, but with the "trade deal" I'm sure The Empire will export this great practise too.

If "The Empire" hasn't succeeded in exporting this to the EU, what makes you think it will be exported further?

It is very easy to purchase grass fed, antibiotic free meat in North America.  And, beef, I know for a fact, is not treated with steroids in Canada.  I know this because I live in the province that produces over 3/4 of Canada's beef, and  I have relatives who are beef farmers.  They don't use antibiotics, either, although once cows are transferred to feedlots, steroids may be used.

My point stands to "anything" as well. 

Sergey Kapitsa, the son of famed Russian physicist Pyotr Kapitsa, and a scientist himself, was tasked by Putin with reinvigorating Russian sciences.  He declared Russian science "dead".  A review of scholarly journals, and even the fact that Russia pays the tuition and living expenses of its graduate students to obtain advanced degrees abroad, provided they return to Russia to work is evidence of the truth of his statement.

A country cannot kill its best and brightest for a century, promote students based on fealty to a system rather than on brains, and then recover overnight.  I had honestly assumed by this point, things would have turned around.  However, the fact that former communists are still running the system, and are really criminal pigs at the trough, rather than expansive thinkers, has stymied progress in Russia, and Ukraine, as well. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 30, 2016, 02:13:35 PM
I was browsing the net this morning, and I saw this article from the LA Times that once again pierces the continued mistruth many tell regarding NATO expansion.  The article discusses the timelines, and doesn't justify Russian aggression, but rather gives reasoning as to why it happens...and it doesn't paint us (The US) as angels.  Sounds more truthful than the basic talking points I sometimes read here. 

Here is the perspective of someone involved directly in the negotiations -

Quote
What the Germans, Americans, British and French did agree to in 1990 was that there would be no deployment of non-German NATO forces on the territory of the former GDR. I was a deputy director on the State Department’s Soviet desk at the time, and that was certainly the point of Secretary James Baker’s discussions with Gorbachev and his foreign minister, Eduard Shevardnadze. In 1990, few gave the possibility of a broader NATO enlargement to the east any serious thought.
The agreement on not deploying foreign troops on the territory of the former GDR was incorporated in Article 5 of the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany, which was signed on September 12, 1990 by the foreign ministers of the two Germanys, the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France. Article 5 had three provisions:

Until Soviet forces had completed their withdrawal from the former GDR, only German territorial defense units not integrated into NATO would be deployed in that territory.
  • There would be no increase in the numbers of troops or equipment of U.S., British and French forces stationed in Berlin.
  • Once Soviet forces had withdrawn, German forces assigned to NATO could be deployed in the former GDR, but foreign forces and nuclear weapons systems would not be deployed there.
We now have a very authoritative voice from Moscow confirming this understanding. Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev (http://rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html), who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” To be sure, the former Soviet president criticized NATO enlargement and called it a violation of the spirit of the assurances given Moscow in 1990, but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2014/11/06-nato-no-promise-enlarge-gorbachev-pifer (http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2014/11/06-nato-no-promise-enlarge-gorbachev-pifer)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 30, 2016, 10:42:11 PM
A country cannot kill its best and brightest for a century, promote students based on fealty to a system rather than on brains, and then recover overnight.  I had honestly assumed by this point, things would have turned around.  However, the fact that former communists are still running the system, and are really criminal pigs at the trough, rather than expansive thinkers, has stymied progress in Russia, and Ukraine, as well.

In a new world of instant satisfaction, where we scold for being a day late or dollar short it's easy to forget that social and political change takes generations.  We have to remain patient, persistent, optimistic and never lose hope.  The world is still a very closed system and all closed systems will naturally seek equilibrium over time.

I make coffee in the mornings with a french press.  No matter how much I yearn that first sip I have to wait those 3 or 4 minutes for the grain to settle and flavor to develop before pushing the plunger.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 31, 2016, 07:45:23 AM
In a new world of instant satisfaction, where we scold for being a day late or dollar short it's easy to forget that social and political change takes generations.  We have to remain patient, persistent, optimistic and never lose hope.  The world is still a very closed system and all closed systems will naturally seek equilibrium over time.

I make coffee in the mornings with a french press.  No matter how much I yearn that first sip I have to wait those 3 or 4 minutes for the grain to settle and flavor to develop before pushing the plunger.

BC,

Sounds to me like you are a great lover as well.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on May 31, 2016, 06:37:40 PM
BC,

Sounds to me like you are a great lover as well.

LOL    Are your sure?   The foreplay is for only 3-4 minutes and in that time all he does is watch and wait.  Maybe he grinds.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 31, 2016, 06:52:58 PM
Maybe he was Chance the Gardner in another life?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 01, 2016, 06:11:21 AM


I was browsing the net this morning, and I saw this article from the LA Times that once again pierces the continued mistruth many tell regarding NATO expansion. 


  Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

I note Bo got to jump on your latest fail, while 'browsing the net' ...

The truth of the matter is no-one appreciated the  rate of change and the likes of Thatcher in the 'west' weren't even in favour of a re-united Germany.








Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 01, 2016, 07:40:11 AM
In a new world of instant satisfaction, where we scold for being a day late or dollar short it's easy to forget that social and political change takes generations.  We have to remain patient, persistent, optimistic and never lose hope.  The world is still a very closed system and all closed systems will naturally seek equilibrium over time.

I make coffee in the mornings with a french press.  No matter how much I yearn that first sip I have to wait those 3 or 4 minutes for the grain to settle and flavor to develop before pushing the plunger.


But change cannot occur if there is no change in who is at the levers of power.


What has changed is the system operated (from a closed totalitarian system to a semi closed authoritarian system), not the manner in which that system operates.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 01, 2016, 10:08:45 AM
Just 3  1/2 years to go before Russia has an out of control HIV/Aids epidemic according to "Kremlin Experts".  Condoms are to blame.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kremlin-experts-blame-condoms-for-russian-hiv-epidemic/571102.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 01, 2016, 10:31:26 AM
Two Russian medalists were forced to turn in their medals from the 2012 Olympics for drug use. One was also forced to return her gold medal from the 2010 Euro Championship.   Not a bad beginning!

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/two-russian-athletes-hand-in-olympic-medals-after-being-caught-doping/571133.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 01, 2016, 10:40:35 AM
Slavery in Russia is stable from 2015 according to the Moscow Times. Over 1,000,000 are deemed slaves. "Modern-day slavery comprises of human trafficking, forced labour, debt bondage, forced marriage and commercial sexual exploitation." There is an estimated 45,800,000 slaves worldwide, that number has risen 28% since last year.

 At least Russia is stable at something!  :rolleyes:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/over-1-million-russians-are-modern-slaves--report/571098.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on June 01, 2016, 01:59:31 PM
I note Bo got to jump on your latest fail, while 'browsing the net' ...

The truth of the matter is no-one appreciated the  rate of change and the likes of Thatcher in the 'west' weren't even in favour of a re-united Germany.


It seems pretty clear to me that at a minimum verbal assurances were broken...and Russia has reasonable reason to have some concern. 


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 01, 2016, 02:53:37 PM

It seems pretty clear to me that at a minimum verbal assurances were broken...and Russia has reasonable reason to have some concern. 
Fathertime!


But it's not clear to Mr. Gorbachev, who was there at the time.  What he does say is that it was a violation of the "spirit of the statements and assurances" -
Quote

The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.

]Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled. The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been observed all these years. So don’t portray Gorbachev and the then-Soviet authorities as naďve people who were wrapped around the West’s finger. If there was naďveté, it was later, when the issue arose. Russia at first did not object.

The decision for the U.S. and its allies to expand NATO into the east was decisively made in 1993. I called this a big mistake from the very beginning. It was definitely a violation of the spirit of the statements and assurances made to us in 1990. With regards to Germany, they were legally enshrined and are being observed.



http://rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html (http://rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 02, 2016, 12:56:48 AM

It seems pretty clear to me that at a minimum verbal assurances were broken...and Russia has reasonable reason to have some concern. 








It seems pretty clear that neither you - nor I - were present - so you cannot have a clue as to what was said - so we are relying on the words of those who were..


I does seem clear what Eduard Shevardnadze, the then Soviet Foreign Minister said...'' there were no such assurances from the West. Even the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, the Eastern military alliance, "was beyond our imagination"...





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 03, 2016, 06:42:43 PM
Reports of Putin's daughter being killed in a car accident in Holland- can it be true?

Accident killed Putin's daughter and her husband ?

This information came from the Netherlands, but the Dutch official police report about it. So to say that this is true we can not. But the accident was actually the police and the Netherlands in the near future is to confirm or deny that it is Putin's Maria died in this tragedy.
http://hvylya.net/news/digest/v-zhutkom-dtp-razbilas-doch-putina-so-svoim-suprugom-smi.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 03, 2016, 09:43:52 PM
Poland has gotten tired of their noisey neighbor to the east. They decided not to re-new their long term gas contract with Gasprom. It'll expire in 2022.

http://uawire.org/news/poland-will-not-renew-its-contract-with-gazprom
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 04, 2016, 03:24:07 AM
Reports of Putin's daughter being killed in a car accident in Holland- can it be true?

Accident killed Putin's daughter and her husband ?

Can't find any other reports of this.  Is she still even in The Netherlands?  I thought she supposedly fled the country after the Malaysian Airlines crash in Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 04, 2016, 12:08:54 PM
Reports of Putin's daughter being killed in a car accident in Holland- can it be true?

Accident killed Putin's daughter and her husband ?

This information came from the Netherlands, but the Dutch official police report about it. So to say that this is true we can not. But the accident was actually the police and the Netherlands in the near future is to confirm or deny that it is Putin's Maria died in this tragedy.
http://hvylya.net/news/digest/v-zhutkom-dtp-razbilas-doch-putina-so-svoim-suprugom-smi.html


JayH spends his days searching for anything to fulfill his schadensfreude fantasies.

If it's on the internet it has to be true or?

http://acidcow.com/cars/47431-audi-s8-crash-11-pics.html

June 2013.  The polish driver reportedly walked away from this accident.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 04, 2016, 05:19:42 PM

JayH spends his days searching for anything to fulfill his schadensfreude fantasies.


Did you miss the ?

Meanwhile-- more shocks to Russians  as Chinese  disclose the truth!
On Air Russia-24 occurred most unpleasant incident for Putin

A year ago, after the signing of the memorandum on the basic conditions of supply of gas through the western route ( "Power of Siberia-2"), the head of Gazprom's Miller said that China agreed terms of delivery and supply volumes will amount to 30 billion m3 of gas per year. Later, Miller said that " Gazprom "expects to sign a contract with CNPC for the Altai route in the first half of 2016. However, Wang Yilin has denied these allegations.

http://replyua.net/news/tv-ukraine/30865-shipilov-v-efire-rossiya-24-proizoshel-prenepriyatnyy-dlya-putina-kazus.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on June 04, 2016, 07:37:02 PM
Can't find any other reports of this.  Is she still even in The Netherlands?  I thought she supposedly fled the country after the Malaysian Airlines crash in Ukraine.
"Terrible accident happened near the city of Rotterdam a few hours ago. Maria went to town with her ​​husband Yorritom Faassenom. On one of the turns of Maria Putina car Audi S8 skidded and was thrown into the oncoming lane, where there was a head-on collision with a truck MAN. A chance to survive, they had not. The car from the blow ripped almost in half."
http://elise.com.ua/?p=194161 (http://elise.com.ua/?p=194161)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 04, 2016, 09:51:39 PM
Did you miss the ?


Jay,

a minimum of due diligence before hitting the post button would garner a bit of reputability.  Don't you think that mainstream news would have carried something about this 'accident'? 

Rumors and more rumors.. oh well at least we know what's to be expected in your posts.  Don't think that silence implies consent but instead that fact checking your posts is like digging through a garbage heap.

Do you really believe the article?  If not why even post it?

You're about as unbalanced as the 'news' you post here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 04, 2016, 11:09:29 PM
The UN Human Rights Spokeswoman , Ravina Shamdasani says that there are very credible reports of Russian servicemen and heavy weapons going into and out of Ukraine.

 Her report says that the armed invaders have caused large human rights violations, It says "2.7 million civilians living under their control have no freedom of expression, assembly and association."

http://www.voanews.com/content/un-sees-threat-protracted-war-east-ukraine-conflict/3360739.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 04, 2016, 11:42:08 PM
There was a referendum, and while it was not without flaws, no one can honestly dispute that at the time, it reflected the wishes of a majority of Crimeans.

Boe, I dug this up to help show some of the flaws that was reported by the " “President of Russia’s Council on Civil Society and Human Rights”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/05/06/russian-government-agency-reveals-fraudulent-nature-of-the-crimean-referendum-results/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 05, 2016, 12:13:48 AM
It's looking more and more like Russia won't be going to Rio for the Olympics because of drugging.  :crackwhip:

 WADA, World Anti-Doping Agency, was made aware of Russian doping since 2010! But until 2015 they didn't have the authority to investigate the charges.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/571264.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 05, 2016, 02:12:11 AM
Russian President Vladimir Putin's regime has not yet collapsed is only because in politics there are no serious forces able to confront Putin.

"regime is dead": , who can "remove" Putin

"Representatives of the protest groups can go into the Duma. It is clear that some Liberals in the parliament will not change anything, but they will become subjects of public policy. It is important to crystallize the democratic opposition. In the future it can play a role in the split of the ruling elite. Power in Russia in the elections does not change, but elections can contribute to this process. Moreover, the situation in Russia - in the process of change ", - the journalist said.

http://obozrevatel.com/abroad/74926-ego-rezhim-mertv-rossijskij-zhurnalist-rasskazal-kto-mozhet-ubrat-putina.ht
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 05, 2016, 03:55:49 AM
JayH

When where you last IN Russia ?

It's just that your posts don't reflect the attitude / scenario I detected.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 05, 2016, 09:22:57 AM
Does it matter Moby?

It's news about Russia.   As in "More Bad News for Russia"   :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 05, 2016, 10:50:59 AM
Does it matter Moby?

It's news about Russia.   As in "More Bad News for Russia"   :clapping:

It 'matters' as it is only 'bad news' if the population feel it
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2016, 11:56:14 AM
Does it matter Moby?

It's news about Russia.   As in "More Bad News for Russia"   :clapping:


Too funny, as you asked me the exact same question when I pointed out my skepticism about the Ukrainian economy, Ukrainian politicians, the honesty of Ukrainian police . . .  8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 05, 2016, 12:10:24 PM
Correct Moby,  except this is for the interwebs population, not merely Russia. Is there a possibility that you're looking thru rose colored glasses and not seeing enough?


 Boe, Ironic huh? ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 05, 2016, 05:01:46 PM
Correct Moby,  except this is for the interwebs population, not merely Russia. Is there a possibility that you're looking thru rose colored glasses and not seeing enough?

XaXa,



AkMike , This thread is about Russia and what is 'bad news' .... I'm just pointing  out that a lot of the 'bad news' is more some folks wishful thinking, rather than apparent to 'man in the street', in Russia

'Irony' is being labelled a 'Russophobe' in one place  - if my posts / profile aren't edited / deleted, former Soviet style - and it being suggested - when I simply point out what I see, on here  - that I might be suffering from 'Stockholm Syndrome'   :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 05, 2016, 06:06:14 PM
JayH

When where you last IN Russia ?

It's just that your posts don't reflect the attitude / scenario I detected.

You can bet money that I was there a lot more recently than you were in Ukraine!
The fact is I avoid going there now if I possibly can.

Your detection? What down at the beach in Sochi?On a chartered yacht? Yeah--you will have your finger right on the pulse!

I prefer to listen to Mende for intelligent assessment of today;s Russia-- and the many reports we can read-- some of which I post!

It 'matters' as it is only 'bad news' if the population feel it

Nonsense-- it has been repeatedly documented that the truth is being kept from most Russians.By the time they wake up as a whole--chances are it will after the really bad news!!


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 05, 2016, 06:11:07 PM
Your Stockholm Syndrome has already been talked about Moby..    :D 

I find it interesting that the men who've married Russians,(for the most part) seem to support the invasion of Ukraine and the Kremlin's roughshod treatment of many including their own citizens. Others that have married Ukrainians seem to have a view that Russia is the invader and at fault. A more western view as it were. (Supported by the vast majority of the world as shown by UN votes against Russia.)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 05, 2016, 06:15:47 PM
Your Stockholm Syndrome has already been talked about Moby..    :D 

I find it interesting that the men who've married Russians,(for the most part) seem to support the invasion of Ukraine and the Kremlin's roughshod treatment of many including their own citizens. Others that have married Ukrainians seem to have a view that Russia is the invader and at fault. A more western view as it were. (Supported by the vast majority of the world as shown by UN votes against Russia.)

Supported by the bleeding blind obvious facts !! 
Only those with the heads up their a...s  would conclude differently.


ps Mike--"men who have married Russians"-- I do not agree with that.Certainly some fit that category-- but to their credit some (many) have kept their ability to think and see Russia.s behaviour for what it is.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2016, 06:41:19 PM
I find it interesting that the men who've married Russians,(for the most part) seem to support the invasion of Ukraine and the Kremlin's roughshod treatment of many including their own citizens. Others that have married Ukrainians seem to have a view that Russia is the invader and at fault. A more western view as it were. (Supported by the vast majority of the world as shown by UN votes against Russia.)


That is inaccurate.  The posters here married to Russians are Mendy, Изумруд (both of whom either live or lived in Russia), Faux Pas, Gator, BC, and Turboguy.  I'm mostly likely missing someone.  Not one of them has expressed support for the Russian regime.

The men married to Ukrainians often are not balanced in their perspectives of Ukraine, IMHO.  I say this as someone who is ethnically Ukrainian, speaks Ukrainian, and could find it on a map when most of you did not know the difference between a Russian and a Ukrainian.

I don't think moby's comments are particularly "pro Russian".  He is merely noting the attitudes on the ground.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 05, 2016, 07:03:13 PM
Seems to me you left out Natural (who married a gal from Krim) and Tiger Paws (whose wife, prior to their marriage, callled Moscow home, even though she was originally from Uzbekistan (or one of the Stan countries) but is a Russian national.

Of course neither of these guys have leanings towards the Russian regime.  They are solidly here on behalf of Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 05, 2016, 07:03:52 PM

That is inaccurate.  The posters here married to Russians are Mendy, Изумруд (both of whom either live or lived in Russia), Faux Pas, Gator, BC, and Turboguy.  I'm mostly likely missing someone.  Not one of them has expressed support for the Russian regime.


Wrong--it is an insult to the others to include BC in that list.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 05, 2016, 07:06:51 PM

]The men married to Ukrainians often are not balanced in their perspectives of Ukraine, IMHO. .[/font][/size]


I agree--being married to a Ukrainian is no guarantee of knowing anything!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2016, 07:09:52 PM
Seems to me you left out Natural (who married a gal from Krim) and Tiger Paws (whose wife, prior to their marriage, callled Moscow home, even though she was originally from Uzbekistan (or one of the Stan countries) but is a Russian national.

Of course neither of these guys have leanings towards the Russian regime.  They are solidly here on behalf of Ukraine.


I excluded Natural because his wife was from Ukraine.


I forgot about TP, and I noted, I had probably forgotten about some posters.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 05, 2016, 07:12:01 PM

I excluded Natural because his wife was from Ukraine.


I forgot about TP, and I noted, I had probably forgotten about some posters.

Jone was tongue in cheek--those guys are fascist believers in all of Putins stupidity
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2016, 07:13:17 PM
I agree--being married to a Ukrainian is no guarantee of knowing anything!!


Are you suggesting I was wrong in my assessment of the current regime?  Sorry but nope, I was not, and the current situation in Ukraine proves it.  Same criminal activity.  Only the players have changed.


I know Ukrainians.  I can speak to them, in their own language.  I know what they say when they are unguarded.  And I've lived among the current leadership.  I know their mentality, something which is foreign to most Westerners.  That is why I am not as rosy about the future as are you.  It will take a seismic shift in who is running the country (by that I mean the Rada) for real change to occur.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2016, 07:14:25 PM
Jone was tongue in cheek--those guys are fascist believers in all of Putins stupidity

I know.  But I specifically excluded Natural, who yes, does seem to support a fascist regime, as his wife is ethnically Russian, but was not a Russian citizen, AFAIK.

I just forgot about TP - sorry about that.


PS - I do think BC is balanced, though he hasn't discussed Ukraine much.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 05, 2016, 07:18:33 PM

Are you suggesting I was wrong in my assessment



I was agreeing with you !I expanded slightly on who was included!! :)

]The men married to Ukrainians often are not balanced in their perspectives of Ukraine, IMHO
. ]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2016, 07:40:32 PM
OK.  I apologize.  I'm extra feisty tonight from clearing spruce needles, and some are still embedded in my hands.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 05, 2016, 07:49:22 PM
OK.  I apologize.  I'm extra feisty tonight from clearing spruce needles, and some are still embedded in my hands.

Yeah- but who would notice !! :devilish:
Sounds painfull-hope it is all ok !
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 05, 2016, 11:30:04 PM
So you have problems with women who have opinions.  Got it. 

You are indeed a supporter of a fascist regime, and seem to be proud of that fact.

It is beyond my comprehension how anyone can not only support, but admire a regime comprised of former KGB agents, with the blood of millions on their hands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on June 05, 2016, 11:41:29 PM
So you have problems with women who have opinions.  Got it. 

You are indeed a supporter of a fascist regime, and seem to be proud of that fact.

It is beyond my comprehension how anyone can not only support, but admire a regime comprised of former KGB agents, with the blood of millions on their hands.

I don't have problems with women who have opinions, but as always, when you disagree you spin what I say to suit your own views.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 05, 2016, 11:44:13 PM
Wrong--it is an insult to the others to include BC in that list.

awww so sweet of you to mention me.

Yes, I don't agree with your 'schadensfreude' posts.
Yes, I believe one should contribute and not just distribute.
Yes, I look at both sides of the coin and don't just blame the other.
Yes, I'll call you out when you post unbalanced nonsense.

The only thing I am 'pro' about is reality and learning the truth behind what happens in this world.  The only thing I am against is an attitude that only blames someone else when the root cause of all that ails lies within.

Instead of bitchin' n moanin' UA should write off Crimea and Donetsk and expend all it's efforts and resources instead towards turning UA around politically and economically. Until that is done UA will be preyed upon, overtly by both east and discretely by the west and China.  It's obvious that neither a civil or world war is going to quick fix the issues at hand; aside from the fact there is neither support nor resolve for doing what it takes to get RU to relinquish their influence in disputed areas.

so.. what's wrong with that?

<-- passes the cheese to go with your whine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2016, 12:03:46 AM
Quote
so.. what's wrong with that?

As we sit safely in our homes, there are 30,000 Russian soldiers massed on Ukraine's border, another 2,000 to 3,000 in Donbas, and equipment is crossing Ukraine's border daily.  This month, six soldiers have been killed in Ukraine, and more than a dozen wounded.  These are not as a result of provocations by Ukraine.  This is increased military offensives by Donbas terrorists, thanks to newly arrived weaponry.  This has all been confirmed by neutral observers.

There are attacks at Mariupol almost daily.  I know this, as I have a cousin posted there. 

Russia refuses to honour the Minsk Accords, as do the terrorists.  Russia's goal is to bleed Ukraine, to ensure it does not give up that territory and move to normality.  So, while a laudable goal, your perspective is unrealistic.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 06, 2016, 12:48:15 AM
Russia refuses to honour the Minsk Accords, as do the terrorists.  Russia's goal is to bleed Ukraine, to ensure it does not give up that territory and move to normality.  So, while a laudable goal, your perspective is unrealistic.

Boethius,

without getting into a chicken or egg first discussion, using the MinskII requirements outlined in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_II#Measures as a baseline that all interested parties signed, which points have been complied with by each side?  Can either side state that they have fully complied with MinskII?

I'm just curious as to the current status quo and what is still left to do.  At this point, I see a bit of a stalemate of noncompliance on both sides whereas UA could only benefit on the international stage by fully implementing MinskII, even if it is done unilaterally.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2016, 12:58:37 AM
Ukraine did everything on the ceasefire front per Minsk. The Russian response was to send more arms to the terrorists. In fact, they expanded attacks to regions outside the conflict zone.

Russia's intention is to keep a low level war percolating so that Ukraine cannot implement any significant reforms. What Ukraine has not done yet is amend its constitution, but it can't do that until there is an actual ceasefire.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 06, 2016, 12:59:53 AM
Boethius,

without getting into a chicken or egg first discussion, using the MinskII requirements outlined in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_II#Measures as a baseline that all interested parties signed, which points have been complied with by each side?  Can either side state that they have fully complied with MinskII?

I'm just curious as to the current status quo and what is still left to do.  At this point, I see a bit of a stalemate of noncompliance on both sides whereas UA could only benefit on the international stage by fully implementing MinskII, even if it is done unilaterally.

Really--how ignorant are you-no answer required.
You do not even have the most basic concept of what is going on in Ukraine.
If you spent some time reading some of the links posted( and many others deleted)you would understand how ridiculous your comments are.
Part of the reason I post links is that they often have substantial details that add weight to the point/s being made. Of course-- I note you use links in the ridiculous US politics thread where the substance is --yes it is- no it's not --or vice versa repeated 22000 times.
Your general comments in the above posts support my comments made earlier about you.
So-- go back and read some of what has been posted in links-- and you may be capable of learning something.
Your not a fit person to be "advising" anything on the forum.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 06, 2016, 01:00:06 AM
You can bet money that I was there a lot more recently than you were in Ukraine!
The fact is I avoid going there now if I possibly can.

I was in Ukraine in January ....

Your detection? What down at the beach in Sochi?On a chartered yacht? Yeah--you will have your finger right on the pulse!

I've been in Moscow and Novosibirsk, too. I can assure you some folk SC knows live in places that would be condemned in the west...

I prefer to listen to Mende for intelligent assessment of today;s Russia-- and the many reports we can read-- some of which I post!

I have no problem with your preference - he has a great deal more experience than I

Nonsense-- it has been repeatedly documented that the truth is being kept from most Russians.By the time they wake up as a whole--chances are it will after the really bad news!!


When it comes to news - especially things like 'away games' and MH17, I agree.  ..But, I  refer to everyday perspective of  the 'man in the street'.


If that covers F1 fans, Yachties and people who live in crap houses .... I'd say that was a wide spectrum :popcorn:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 06, 2016, 01:02:05 AM


I'm just curious as to the current status quo and what is still left to do.  At this point, I see a bit of a stalemate of noncompliance on both sides whereas UA could only benefit on the international stage by fully implementing MinskII, even if it is done unilaterally.

Answer this question BC--- what business( ie right) does Russia have for invading eastern Ukraine?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 06, 2016, 01:24:52 AM
Answer this question BC--- what business( ie right) does Russia have for invading eastern Ukraine?

None, but Minsk was a deal to stop folk dying -with an end game whereby Kyiv regained control of her frontiers

If you read the daily reports from the monitors [OSCE]BOTH sides are breaking the  agreement...

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports (http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports)


Moscow is playing on Kyiv's cutting off finances to the region - which is understandable - but hardly going to win support and now Moscow is funding the 'rebel' held territory.

Many Russians believe that the 'rebels' will ultimately take Mariupol ...I have no idea where the 'creeping' westwards will stop.

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on June 06, 2016, 01:29:39 AM
So, while a laudable goal, your perspective is unrealistic.

It's not the perspective, it's almost certain future. Right now roughly 50% of Ukrainians are ready to accept Minsk. Speaking about Minsk we imply  termination of  military stage of the conflict, while the result will be in de-facto  cessation of Donbass.
For Kiev  two options are acceptable, military solution (rather fantastic) and keeping the situation in status quo. Second option leads to cessation too, but the process will be more painful for both Donbass and Ukraine from economy point of view as well as political instability within Ukraine.

There are theoretical chances that  the cessation of Donbass will turn over time into the reintegration with Ukraine. Ukraine must change itself into attractive country for people at Donbass. At present time the  perspective of such transformation looks foggy, and time is limited. 5 years without Ukraine will turn Donbass into part of Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2016, 01:33:50 AM
I agree with most of your post, Belvis. However, 5 years is a long time. Furthermore, Donbas' primary industry is a dying one. There is no reason Russia would want this region.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 06, 2016, 01:43:11 AM
5 years without Ukraine will turn Donbass into part of Russia.

Exactly the plan, surely?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 06, 2016, 01:43:40 AM
What Ukraine has not done yet is amend its constitution, but it can't do that until there is an actual ceasefire.

Isn't that a or maybe even 'the' crucial step that needs to be taken for both sides to move forward?

What's stopping it?  As moby stated from the official observers there are ceasefire violations, but the reports are not able to say which side is responsible, leaving all to assuming both.

Is the following opinion (still) valid?
http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/02/10/88929/

Are smaller scale ceasefire skirmishes really the reason behind UA not amending their constitution per the agreement or being used as a veil for a political conundrum, even catch 22?


 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 06, 2016, 01:47:14 AM
None, but Minsk was a deal to stop folk dying -with an end game whereby Kyiv regained control of her frontiers

If you read the daily reports from the monitors [OSCE]BOTH sides are breaking the  agreement...

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports (http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/reports)


Moscow is playing on Kyiv's cutting off finances to the region - which is understandable - but hardly going to win support and now Moscow is funding the 'rebel' held territory.

Many Russians believe that the 'rebels' will ultimately take Mariupol ...I have no idea where the 'creeping' westwards will stop.

I am pretty damn sure you are not anywhere remotely close to having followed OSCE reports.

Actually it is really simple--Russia stops shooting-removes all Russian military and weapons-now that would be a "compliance" I would admire.
Why will that not happen? Because Putin knows Ukrainian forces would clean the rest of the scum out in a week. Putin does not want resolution in the east. Amongst other aims is to cause as much disruption in Ukraine as possible and prevent it functioning effectively as a democracy.
So really-- Russia continues to make it impossible for Ukraine to resolve.
The most likely way the eastern Ukraine issue will be resolved will be that Russia  goes broke and internal change happens-Putin still thinks he is holding the cards as he attempts to continue to bluff the west.

It's not the perspective, it's almost certain future. Right now roughly 50% of Ukrainians are ready to accept Minsk. Speaking about Minsk we imply  termination of  military stage of the conflict, while the result will be in de-facto  cessation of Donbass.
For Kiev  two options are acceptable, military solution (rather fantastic) and keeping the situation in status quo. Second option leads to cessation too, but the process will be more painful for both Donbass and Ukraine from economy point of view as well as political instability within Ukraine.

There are theoretical chances that  the cessation of Donbass will turn over time into the reintegration with Ukraine. Ukraine must change itself into attractive country for people at Donbass. At present time the  perspective of such transformation looks foggy, and time is limited. 5 years without Ukraine will turn Donbass into part of Russia.
A military solution being achieved by Ukraine is not fanciful--it is a very real possibility. The implications for Russia and Putin- we will see.
The Ukrainian economy is in the process of readjusting itself without the Donbass already. The fact is that remarkable progress has already been made.
So-- that transformation of Ukraine is underway already.With or without the Donbass.

The way things will go-- all those Russian impoverished by Putin's stupidity will be clamouring to move to Ukraine in 5 years( including those on the Crimea)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on June 06, 2016, 01:53:59 AM
Furthermore, Donbas' primary industry is a dying one. There is no reason Russia would want this region.
The fight for Donbass lays beyond economics or politics, it's rather existential question. Russia has no benefits to posses Donbass but she feels obligations to men there which Russians consider being Russians too.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 06, 2016, 01:55:12 AM
Isn't that a or maybe even 'the' crucial step that needs to be taken for both sides to move forward?

What's stopping it?  As moby stated from the official observers there are ceasefire violations, but the reports are not able to say which side is responsible, leaving all to assuming both.

Is the following opinion (still) valid?
http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/02/10/88929/

Are smaller scale ceasefire skirmishes really the reason behind UA not amending their constitution per the agreement or being used as a veil for a political conundrum, even catch 22?
It is in a Catch22 situation as it stands now.
The most militatnt and powerful force in internal Ukrainian politics--is vehemently against conceding anything in the east.
The constitution will not be amended to allow a settlement--unless that settlement is the return of full control over the area.

The OSCE reports clearly show who is instigating ceasefire violations.

Russia gets out--that would be a start!

So--let us try again---
WHAT IS THE JUSTIFICATION FOR RUSSIA INVADING EASTERN UKRAINE?

BC,BELVIS,MOBY--let's hear it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 06, 2016, 01:56:51 AM
Answer this question BC--- what business( ie right) does Russia have for invading eastern Ukraine?

Because they can, which unfortunately has become a quite popular stance by precedent, used by multiple superpowers over the last few decades. Pandora's box was opened long ago.

One of many opinions and yes I realize every @-hole has one.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/05/america-and-international-law
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on June 06, 2016, 01:57:03 AM
Exactly the plan, surely?
Not the plan but sociology confirmed by precedents.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 06, 2016, 01:58:09 AM
I am pretty damn sure you are not anywhere remotely close to having followed OSCE reports.

It is one of the first things I read on  daily basis .... :shock:

Actually it is really simple--Russia stops shooting-removes all Russian military and weapons-now that would be a "compliance" I would admire.

The main issue is the porous border and lack of Kyiv control ... the current situation means the likelihood of Kyiv regaining such control recedes with every day that passes.

 


The way things will go-- all those Russian impoverished by Putin's stupidity will be clamouring to move to Ukraine in 5 years( including those on the Crimea)

With the rise in world energy prices and no sign of unrest from within - once again this is very much wishful thinking on your part
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 06, 2016, 01:58:31 AM
.

Is the following opinion (still) valid?
http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/02/10/88929/

No--it is a series of comments-not definitive ( on super quick read)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 06, 2016, 02:00:20 AM
Not the plan but sociology confirmed by precedents.

I 'see' and Putin referring to the people of novorossiya was a mistake .. You'll forgive me, if we agree to disagree re the 'plan'...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 06, 2016, 02:03:23 AM
The fight for Donbass lays beyond economics or politics, it's rather existential question. Russia has no benefits to posses Donbass but she feels obligations to men there which Russians consider being Russians too.

Thats your explanation?
And BC's-- because they could?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 06, 2016, 02:08:12 AM
It is in a Catch22 situation as it stands now.
The most militatnt and powerful force in internal Ukrainian politics--is vehemently against conceding anything in the east.
The constitution will not be amended to allow a settlement--unless that settlement is the return of full control over the area.

The OSCE reports clearly show who is instigating ceasefire violations.

Russia gets out--that would be a start!

So--let us try again---
WHAT IS THE JUSTIFICATION FOR RUSSIA INVADING EASTERN UKRAINE?

BC,BELVIS,MOBY--let's hear it?

Thanks for at least an indication that there is a lack of and maybe even inability of UA to comply with MinskII.  The bold font I added goes back to a chicken egg first discourse which of course is never productive so I won't even go that direction.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 06, 2016, 02:10:37 AM
BC-- Ukraine will do no more until Russia complies.

As I said earlier-Putin does not want it settled.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 06, 2016, 03:08:04 AM
BC-- Ukraine will do no more until Russia complies.

As I said earlier-Putin does not want it settled.

And there are indications that UA doesn't either, at least not on MinskII terms.

Then it shall remain as it is and both you and I simply have to accept it for exactly that and drop the blame game.  Until one side or the other takes the first step forward nothing will be resolved on either side.

My assertion is that UA can only gain by fully implementing MinskII.  That is the only way forward that would provide real teeth for the west to fully support UA if RU does not follow suit.

Until one side or the other implements MinskII, both are to blame.  UA has more to gain than RU doing so.

As for :


So--let us try again---
WHAT IS THE JUSTIFICATION FOR RUSSIA INVADING EASTERN UKRAINE?

BC,BELVIS,MOBY--let's hear it?

I suggest reading up on the invasion of Panama along with interpretations of how international law was interpreted and set precedent.  IMHO the correlations to UA cannot be ignored, even if the sides are switched a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Panama

and

http://books.google.it/books?id=nyVMqHrwMHQC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq
=panama+invasion+and+international+law&source
=bl&ots=B1w47U1dQz&sig=
eG9V9jp7v0d3WM5EsPv4Z4wM-JE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJt-DliJPNAhXLthQKHQRWBDwQ6AEIJDAB#v
=onepage&q=panama%20invasion%20and%20international%20law&f=false

are good starters.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2016, 07:37:40 AM
The fight for Donbass lays beyond economics or politics, it's rather existential question. Russia has no benefits to posses Donbass but she feels obligations to men there which Russians consider being Russians too.


Well, once again, that is propaganda.  No part of Ukraine, other than the city of Donetsk, had a majority ethnic Russian population.  Now of course, with the terrorists and their Russian masters controlling parts of the region, any ethnic Ukrainian there will automatically become a Russian in any census to fit their narrative.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on June 06, 2016, 08:30:12 AM

Well, once again, that is propaganda.  No part of Ukraine, other than the city of Donetsk, had a majority ethnic Russian population.  Now of course, with the terrorists and their Russian masters controlling parts of the region, any ethnic Ukrainian there will automatically become a Russian in any census to fit their narrative.
What do you mean propaganda? Russians in Russia consider population of Donbass as Russians, that's the fact. Nobody cares about their ethnic background while they're voting to be Russians. Ethnos in our understanding is  cultural self-identification, plus the language. To be Russian or Ukrainian at Donbass now is the choice of cultural values, so  ethnic reasoning is not working there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2016, 08:33:47 AM
Isn't that a or maybe even 'the' crucial step that needs to be taken for both sides to move forward?

What's stopping it?  As moby stated from the official observers there are ceasefire violations, but the reports are not able to say which side is responsible, leaving all to assuming both.


The step cannot be taken unilaterally.  Representatives of the so called DNR and LPR need to approve those constitutional amendments, and they have refused all negotiations with Kyiv.
Quote
Is the following opinion (still) valid?
http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/02/10/88929/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/02/10/88929/)


I suppose.  The issue is that if those regions are granted autonomous status within Ukraine, their criminals have free rein throughout Ukraine.  Make no mistake, these are criminals, not statesmen.  The region right now is lawless.

Quote
Are smaller scale ceasefire skirmishes really the reason behind UA not amending their constitution per the agreement or being used as a veil for a political conundrum, even catch 22?


Yes.  Plus the fact the other side won't agree to the text of the amendments.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2016, 08:35:33 AM
What do you mean propaganda? Russians in Russia consider population of Donbass as Russians, that's the fact. Nobody cares about their ethnic background while they're voting to be Russians. Ethnos in our understanding is  cultural self-identification, plus the language. To be Russian or Ukrainian at Donbass now is the choice of cultural values, so  ethnic reasoning is not working there.

Well, Russians can consider the entire population of Ukraine Russians.  That doesn't make it a fact.

The majority of the population in that region did not ask for war.  That is why the first leaders of the war were all Russian transplants, with Russian arms.  The majority of those fleeing the region fled to Ukraine, not Russia.  That is how propaganda has affected your thinking.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 06, 2016, 08:38:52 AM
Ethnic Russian vs. Ethnic Ukrainian?

I don't even think anyone can truthfully fully define what one is.  Typically an Ethnic Russian living in Ukraine would be someone that had their forebears move from Russia to Ukraine.  But, because Ukraine was simply a Soviet Republic prior to the breakup of the SU in 1991, there really was no distinction.  It is further clouded by the number of people who originated in Ukraine who were in leadership positions in the Kremlin. 

I would guess that the main components of an Ethnic Russian would be:

1.  Forebears

2.  Language

3.  Ideological and political

But I would be interested to listen to any definitions and how they apply to areas of Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2016, 09:26:00 AM
Ethnic Ukrainian is someone who has Ukrainian blood.  Ethnic Russian is someone who has Russian blood.   "Ukrainian" is someone, regardless of nationality, who identifies as Ukrainian because they live in Ukraine, and same for Russian.

In our family, the better half is partly Russian, partly Ukrainian, mostly neither.  His passport identified him, in Soviet times, as Ukrainian, but he didn't care.  He views nationalism as a cancer.  If someone said he was Russian, he was fine with that.  His mother identifies as Russian, as does his sister. 

Stirlitz, who used to post here, is ethnically Russian, but identifies as Ukrainian, so much so, he refers to Putin as "huilo".

The above is not unusual in Eastern Ukraine or Kyiv, and no one in Ukraine, for the most part, cares.  The only people for whom this is an issue is Russian nationalists fascists, who have used this as a way to "unify" Russians in their quest to rebuild a Russian state.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2016, 09:31:47 AM
But, because Ukraine was simply a Soviet Republic prior to the breakup of the SU in 1991, there really was no distinction.

This is inaccurate.

Quote
It is further clouded by the number of people who originated in Ukraine who were in leadership positions in the Kremlin. 

They were communists, and part of Bolshevik ideology was to build a new man, free from the constraints of the past.  One of those constraints was nationalism, and national identity.  There is a reason why one of the cardinal sins of Soviet ethnic minorities was to be identified as a "bourgeois nationalist", and why dissidents who advocated for linguistic and historical ties to their countries, be it Ukrainian/Ukraine, Belarussian/Belarus, Uzbeki/Uzbekistan, etc., ended up in gulags.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 06, 2016, 09:36:20 AM
What do you mean propaganda? Russians in Russia consider population of Donbass as Russians, that's the fact.

I don't know if you've been to the region - I have - and what many folk wanted in 2012 [ Euro 2012 Soccer finals ]  and now has changed....  What Russians think shouldn't be the issue, right ?

This came about because Moscow didn't want Ukraine looking west and deliberately polarised people.

The results of this polarisation were warned about in early '14  - BEFORE GRU inspired  'away games' in Crimea and Donbas ...

I find it most bizarre that a nation that expressly bans talk of secession in the media runs daily bulletins on the antics of secessionists that it backs in a neighbouring nation.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 06, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
Belarus doesn't see Krym as Russian either. The kremlin is going to be pizzed off at Lukashenko.

The Belarus Government has pulled globes showing Krym as Russian from the shelves.  :clapping: :clapping:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/belarussian-authorities-withdraw-globes-showing-crimea-as-russian/571366.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 06, 2016, 10:21:09 AM
Russian's are cutting back on fruits and veggies and $pening their rubles on milk and bread instead to get the calories needed.

 Despite the posters that insist the Russia's in their glory days Russians are feeling the pinch.

 
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russians-swap-fruit-and-fish-for-milk-and-bread-amid-crisis/571378.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 06, 2016, 10:32:19 AM
Moscow is upset that Germany see's Russia as a 'main threat' and a rival rather than a partner.

 What do they expect after disrupting the peace of Europe?  :wallbash:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-concerned-by-reports-germany-sees-kremlin-as-threat/571369.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 06, 2016, 10:51:55 AM
The pseudo-government in Krym is going to cut wages 10% to some of their employees because they're out of money. Moscow hasn't been supporting Crimea as they promised during the invasion.  :rolleyes:

http://en.censor.net.ua/news/391916/theres_no_money_crimean_state_employees_to_face_wage_cuts_krymrealii
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 06, 2016, 11:02:53 AM
Belarus doesn't see Krym as Russian either. The kremlin is going to be pizzed off at Lukashenko.


No, they will understand he has done this because he is concerned that he is next on the list.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 06, 2016, 11:16:08 AM
Speaking of Next on the List, Belarus has actively rejected a Russian air base on its soil and is now resisting the deployment of Russian manned Iskander M missiles as a response to the US missile shield in Romania and soon to be Poland.

It doesn't take too much insight to understand that Belarus knows that one of the means for taking over Krim was the already placed troops in bases and on ships.

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/78976

Luka walks a fine line between cooperating with Russia and not letting the bear in his kitchen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on June 06, 2016, 12:15:21 PM
Despite the posters that insist the Russia's in their glory days...

Who would that be??
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on June 06, 2016, 01:19:49 PM
without getting into a chicken or egg first discussion, using the MinskII requirements outlined in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_II#Measures as a baseline that all interested parties signed, which points have been complied with by each side?  Can either side state that they have fully complied with MinskII?

I'm just curious as to the current status quo and what is still left to do.  At this point, I see a bit of a stalemate of noncompliance on both sides whereas UA could only benefit on the international stage by fully implementing MinskII, even if it is done unilaterally.

Check out item #10. Russia and illegal militant groups haven't pulled out. Ukraine will let the East vote on autonomy after the guns and militants are out of the country. They don't want people voting with a gun to their head. Ukraine feels most of the people in the East want to remain with Ukraine. If the East votes for autonomy, they may get absorbed by Russia just as Crimea did. Russia knows the vote on autonomy will not end well for them unless they can influence the elections and that is why the militants haven't left.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on June 06, 2016, 01:43:15 PM
Russia knows the vote on autonomy will not end well for them . . .

But haven't a lot of the 'good people' left the area and sought sanctuary further west in Ukraine?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on June 06, 2016, 01:51:10 PM
But haven't a lot of the 'good people' left the area and sought sanctuary further west in Ukraine?

The good people will come back when the guns, Russian troops, and militants leave. When those regions finally get their chance to vote on autonomy, it's important the good citizens return to help keep those regions with Ukraine. They will not return in a hostile environment and Russia won't let citizens of those regions conduct a vote outside those regions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on June 06, 2016, 04:06:38 PM
Ukraine feels most of the people in the East want to remain with Ukraine.
The weakest point in your assumptions. Kiev knows well the mood of people there, because of that there will be no vote at Donbass approved by Kiev. There will be the vote arranged by local authorities as it always happened in similar situations. Minsk-2 was the excuse for both sides to stop the war, not the realistic  way for reintegration of the region back to Ukraine. Autonomous Donbass within Ukraine would be the real nightmare for Kiev politicians, so their actions are well predictable and were counted by Putin in advance.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 06, 2016, 07:17:22 PM
The weakest point in your assumptions. Kiev knows well the mood of people there, because of that there will be no vote at Donbass approved by Kiev. There will be the vote arranged by local authorities as it always happened in similar situations. Minsk-2 was the excuse for both sides to stop the war, not the realistic  way for reintegration of the region back to Ukraine. Autonomous Donbass within Ukraine would be the real nightmare for Kiev politicians, so their actions are well predictable and were counted by Putin in advance.

A vote? You mean a farce arranged and orchestrated out of Russia with zero scrutiny allowed by anyone else?A vote with a pre determined outcome !
All at the point of Russian guns of thugs and criminals-- yeah-that it the Russian way.
Can't you get it through your thick skull that Russia has NO raeson to have any say in what happens IN UKRAINE !!!!! :cluebat: :cluebat:

You continue to swallow Putins  bs--the idea that the people in eastern Ukraine  want to leave Ukraine is not-- and has not been supported in any poll. Even more so now for those that can see what Russian rule means.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 07, 2016, 07:10:44 AM

The step cannot be taken unilaterally.  Representatives of the so called DNR and LPR need to approve those constitutional amendments, and they have refused all negotiations with Kyiv.


The following article seems to point the finger at UA.  Yes this is not an independent website, so viewing it as the 'other side' of the same coin, which one better reflects the current state? The two parties facing opposite directions?

http://newcoldwar.org/donbass-republics-reject-foreign-military-contingents-territories/

Quote
“Ukraine was close to derailing the political group’s work for the second time. Another representative of the Ukrainian side said he was not authorized to discuss some items on the agenda,” Talakina wrote in Facebook. She described such an attitude to the negotiations as outrageous.

Quote
According to Talakina, Ukraine has not submitted a single document ever since the political group started its work. By comparison, the representatives of the self-proclaimed republics have drawn up and presented three drafts of amendments to Ukraine’s constitution; two draft laws on elections and two drafts of a road map for the conflict’s peaceful settlement. “Russia also submitted a roadmap draft. The group’s OSCE coordinator has submitted more than 10 drafts,” Talakina said.

Here's the facebook page http://www.facebook.com/victoria.talakina

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 07, 2016, 07:18:15 AM
The following article seems to point the finger at UA.  Yes this is not an independent website, so viewing it as the 'other side' of the same coin, which one better reflects the current state? The two parties facing opposite directions?

http://newcoldwar.org/donbass-republics-reject-foreign-military-contingents-territories/ (http://newcoldwar.org/donbass-republics-reject-foreign-military-contingents-territories/)

Here's the facebook page http://www.facebook.com/victoria.talakina (http://www.facebook.com/victoria.talakina)


Sorry, but I view a Russian government article as anything other than false propaganda.


Here is the problem, in a nutshell -


http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-konflikt/donbass-shadow-government-45102202.bild.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 07, 2016, 01:50:31 PM

A military solution being achieved by Ukraine is not fanciful--it is a very real possibility. The implications for Russia and Putin- we will see.
The Ukrainian economy is in the process of readjusting itself without the Donbass already. The fact is that remarkable progress has already been made.
So-- that transformation of Ukraine is underway already.With or without the Donbass.

The way things will go-- all those Russian impoverished by Putin's stupidity will be clamouring to move to Ukraine in 5 years( including those on the Crimea)


You just have proven you are doing acid. Time to wake up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 07, 2016, 01:51:39 PM
The fight for Donbass lays beyond economics or politics, it's rather existential question. Russia has no benefits to posses Donbass but she feels obligations to men there which Russians consider being Russians too.


Aw, that was more acid taking.  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 07, 2016, 01:57:37 PM
What do you mean propaganda? Russians in Russia consider population of Donbass as Russians, that's the fact. Nobody cares about their ethnic background while they're voting to be Russians. Ethnos in our understanding is  cultural self-identification, plus the language. To be Russian or Ukrainian at Donbass now is the choice of cultural values, so  ethnic reasoning is not working there.


LMFAO


Russians consider Brooklyn part of Russia.


Puh LEEZ
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 07, 2016, 02:09:50 PM

My assertion is that UA can only gain by fully implementing MinskII.  That is the only way forward that would provide real teeth for the west to fully support UA if RU does not follow suit.



BC, in all seriousness, would you support the secession of Texas from the US? Or better yet, how about Texas being exempt from the federal law but being part of the US?


While we are at it, why not allow Russia demand a naval base in Finland? After all, there is some Russian blood in those Finns.


I understand your pragmatism, but what you are asking is the Ukrainian people to bend over and take it like a man. I don't think you'd be happy with Ben Dover as you cell mate.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMHTo4sAYKA
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 07, 2016, 02:17:45 PM
The weakest point in your assumptions. Kiev knows well the mood of people there, because of that there will be no vote at Donbass approved by Kiev. There will be the vote arranged by local authorities as it always happened in similar situations. Minsk-2 was the excuse for both sides to stop the war, not the realistic  way for reintegration of the region back to Ukraine. Autonomous Donbass within Ukraine would be the real nightmare for Kiev politicians, so their actions are well predictable and were counted by Putin in advance.


Absolutely. You see? You can dispense of the propaganda and post insightful comments.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on June 07, 2016, 02:19:20 PM
A vote? You mean a farce arranged and orchestrated out of Russia with zero scrutiny allowed by anyone else?A vote with a pre determined outcome !
All at the point of Russian guns of thugs and criminals-- yeah-that it the Russian way.
Can't you get it through your thick skull that Russia has NO raeson to have any say in what happens IN UKRAINE !!!!! :cluebat: :cluebat:

You continue to swallow Putins  bs--the idea that the people in eastern Ukraine  want to leave Ukraine is not-- and has not been supported in any poll. Even more so now for those that can see what Russian rule means.


Goddamnit Jay. Can't you fcuking read? He said excatly that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 07, 2016, 05:40:45 PM
It's not the perspective, it's almost certain future. Right now roughly 50% of Ukrainians 

Head of the Donetsk administration demanded the return to Ukraine of its ancestral lands - Krasnodar region and part of the Kursk, Bryansk, Voronezh and Rostov regions


Head of Donetsk administration is convinced that the situation in the occupied territories of 50 to 50, because, despite the brainwashing, according Zhebrivskyi, 50% of the population is waiting for the return of the Ukrainian army.
http://www.dialog.ua/news/87968_1465302927
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 08, 2016, 01:57:57 AM

I understand your pragmatism, but what you are asking is the Ukrainian people to bend over and take it like a man. I don't think you'd be happy with Ben Dover as you cell mate.


Muzh,

Borders and alliances have changed for millennia and will keep changing in the future. I do believe that peoples have a right to self determination if freedom of movement and basic human rights are guaranteed.  I don't believe your prison cell analogy is accurate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjW7-72AuTE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 08, 2016, 06:48:51 AM
The Kerch bridge project t is having money problems..  It seems that Russia hasn't made any payments since Feb.  :clapping: :clapping:

Another report said since Dec and that one said work has stopped

http://www.unian.stfi.re/economics/1369143-construction-of-kerch-strait-bridge-faces-funding-constraints.html?sf=ezpykdb#aa

http://uatoday.tv/politics/construction-of-kerch-strait-bridge-faces-funding-constraints-669074.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 08, 2016, 12:52:50 PM
BC, here is an article on the current situation in terms of Kyiv's problems in fulfilling its Minsk II obligations -


http://ukrainianweek.com/Politics/165974
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 08, 2016, 02:18:22 PM
The Kerch bridge project t is having money problems..  It seems that Russia hasn't made any payments since Feb.  :clapping: :clapping:

Another report said since Dec and that one said work has stopped

http://www.unian.stfi.re/economics/1369143-construction-of-kerch-strait-bridge-faces-funding-constraints.html?sf=ezpykdb#aa

http://uatoday.tv/politics/construction-of-kerch-strait-bridge-faces-funding-constraints-669074.html

Sure, it's growing longer all by itself ....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 08, 2016, 05:50:13 PM
Sure, it's growing longer all by itself ....

You better let the company know !
How much easier if they just asked Moby!

Own resources "exhausted" company

Suspended finance the construction of the bridge Kerch


Suspended finance the construction of the bridge Kerch. This is stated in a letter to the general director of the company Stroygazmontazh "Arkady Rotenberg Andrei Kirilenko in the name of the Deputy Transport Minister Eugene Dietrich, and the head of the Federal Road Agency Roman Starovoyt reports of Forbes .

According to the publication, last money for the construction company listed in December last year. Payment of 65.4 billion rubles planned for this year, "hung" due to prolonged bureaucratic procedures. Advance consumed, and on-site equipment is missing.

http://www.znak.com/2016-06-08/priostanovleno_stroitelstvo_kerchenskogo_mosta

Maybe Moby gets his "info" from this guy?

Sands does not know about the problems with the financing of construction of the bridge Kerch

http://ria.ru/economy/20160608/1444432377.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 08, 2016, 10:04:01 PM
BC

Frontiers - especially in Europe - used to change violently and the Balkan republics of Yugoslavia have broken up into constituent parts - with some more adjustment likely in Northern Kosovo ..

Nowadays, I thought we had the UN and agreed frontiers...

It indeed seems that one large nation that bans media promotion of secession positively encourages it in her neighbours .....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 08, 2016, 10:22:59 PM
Re The Kerch Straights Bridges Project

JayH

I took you to task as you suggested works had stopped ... they haven't...this is Putin's legacy project.

''Sands'' is Dmitry Peskov - the Kremlin's Press Spokesman - who has troubles remembering when he first wore a watch when it was pointed out that it was 20-30 times more than his salary  ....


This is the problem when you try to use  translation software..

The article also speaks of increased costs.

Of all the things going on in Russia - this will be the last project that would stop...

Last year the governor of Krasnodar said there was no money to fund the F1 GP in 2016... policing, etc., .. Yet, it happened - including free transport on the train to the circuit...

This is Russia, as they say.



 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 09, 2016, 01:27:41 AM
BC, here is an article on the current situation in terms of Kyiv's problems in fulfilling its Minsk II obligations -


http://ukrainianweek.com/Politics/165974

I see.. The article is fairly clear regarding intent, namely:

Quote
It's no longer a secret that the West, especially Europe, wants to settle peacefully the 'Ukrainian issue' as soon as possible. Europeans are interested in lifting sanctions against Russia, which make them lose money. Of course, Ukraine would have made many in the West happy if it made concessions and fulfilled its obligations under the Minsk agreements unilaterally, without demanding anything from the Moscow-controlled puppet quasi-republics existing at the point of the Russian bayonets. However, if you look at things realistically, it becomes clear that holding anything at least slightly resembling the expression of free will today in Donbas is impossible. And it is unlikely to become possible in the near future.

The main problem is that the militants categorically oppose an election held under Ukrainian laws, with the participation of Ukrainian political forces. This has been repeatedly stated by the self-proclaimed leader of the “Donetsk People’s Republic”, Oleksandr Zakharchenko.

Did the parties not agree to the following in the Minsk II agreement?  I wonder what OSCE's opinion is on the matter.

Quote
Based on the Law of Ukraine "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts", questions related to local elections will be discussed and agreed upon with representatives of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts in the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group. Elections will be held in accordance with relevant OSCE standards and monitored by OSCE/ODIHR.

As to the Law, I think that is another sticking point if I understand correctly, that a constitutional change could be adapted, but that it would only refer to law yet unwritten.  Has DPR backed down from applying OSCE standards and monitoring?

Oh well.  As stated before I really do believe UA would be better off unilaterally taking the necessary steps forward, thus also placing onus on the West for pushing the other sides with more determination if they do not live up to their end of the bargain.

I can only say that both sides are in default and to blame equally.

It's sort of like a couple in divorce court.  The Judge negotiates with both parties, finds an equitable solution and orders the woman to give the dog to the man and the man to give the cat to the woman.  Both agree but the transfer never takes place.  If both take the required action, fine.  If one does and the other not, one party will be held in contempt.  If both do not they are both in contempt.

And that's about it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 09, 2016, 01:45:09 AM
The DPR criminals will not allow the OSCE to do its work-- and constantly obstruct.They have specifically rejected any involvement of the OSCE in any election.
The fact is they obstruct the OSCE on a daily basis.
Putin uses the "its not me" argument whenever it suits him-- ie he does not want it resolved.
Putin's only purpose is to cost Ukraine-- and to cause as much disruption in Ukraine as possible. to repeat myself--the last thing Putin wants is a functioning democracy on his doorstep.

Your analogy BC-- really shows again the degree of how clueless you are.

Russia invaded Ukraine- they have NO RIGHT to be there- cant you get that?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 09, 2016, 02:36:32 AM
The DPR criminals will not allow the OSCE to do its work-- and constantly obstruct.They have specifically rejected any involvement of the OSCE in any election.
The fact is they obstruct the OSCE on a daily basis.
Putin uses the "its not me" argument whenever it suits him-- ie he does not want it resolved.
Putin's only purpose is to cost Ukraine-- and to cause as much disruption in Ukraine as possible. to repeat myself--the last thing Putin wants is a functioning democracy on his doorstep.

Your analogy BC-- really shows again the degree of how clueless you are.

Russia invaded Ukraine- they have NO RIGHT to be there- cant you get that?

Any OSCE references to DPR blocking the negotiations?

Yes, both sides are still fighting but of note:

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/245096

Quote
In relation to the implementation of the Addendum to the Package of measures the SMM revisited a Ukrainian Armed Forces permanent weapons storage site whose location corresponded with the withdrawal lines, and noted as missing 30 tanks (T-64) and six anti-tank guns (D-48, 85mm), as has been observed for the first time on 19 March and 6 January, respectively.

The SMM also revisited “DPR” permanent weapons storage sites whose locations corresponded with the withdrawal lines and noted that all weapons previously verified as withdrawn to those sites were present.

The SMM continued to monitor the withdrawal of heavy weapons foreseen in the Minsk Package of Measures.

In violation of the respective withdrawal lines, the SMM continued to observe a surface-to-air missile system (9K35 Strela-10, 120mm) near government-controlled Nyzhnie (56km north-west of Luhansk) (see SMM Daily Report 27 May) on 4 June. Also in violation of withdrawal lines, in government-controlled areas, the SMM observed: two surface-to-air missile systems (SA-8, Osa 120mm) in Kostiantynivka (60km north of Donetsk); six towed howitzers (2A65 Msta-B, 152mm) in Vodiane (42km south-west of Donetsk); and three anti-tank guns (MT-12 Rapira, 100mm) in Novoselivka Druha (23km north of Donetsk), on 4 June.

The SMM has yet to receive the full information requested in the 16 October 2015 notification. The SMM revisited locations known to the SMM as heavy weapons holding areas, even though they do not comply with the specific criteria set out for permanent storage sites in the notification.

In government-controlled areas beyond the respective withdrawal lines, the SMM revisited such locations and observed: seven towed howitzers (D-20, 152mm). The SMM noted as missing 15 towed howitzers (four D-20, 152mm, first observed missing on 2 April; and 11 2S3 Akatsiya, 152mm, first observed missing on 14 March). The SMM noted that one site was abandoned with 18 towed howitzers (2A65 Msta-B, 152mm) missing, as observed for the first time on 22 April.

But yeah, OSCE doesn't have a clue either.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 09, 2016, 07:13:31 AM
Doping in sports continues in Russia. Wow.. after all the news about it they still persist.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-is-still-doping-german-documentary-claims/571534.html

More charges.

 http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/former-anti-doping-lab-head-accuses-more-russian-athletes-of-doping/571672.html

And finally "Russia's Maria Sharapova Banned From Tennis"

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-maria-sharapova-banned-from-tennis/571582.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 09, 2016, 07:27:58 AM
AKAMike

Sharapova was indeed banned - but for two years - your omitting the time factor - corrected.. Interestingly enough Nike will continue to sponsor her !

JayH

About two weeks ago - you 'sort of' quoted Medvedev re his saying the was no money to index pensions...

The BBC just picked up on the fallout ;)


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36482124 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36482124)

''Once again, the Russian prime minister's remarks caught on camera during a visit to annexed Crimea on 23 May have prompted several sarcastic memes.
During a walkabout, Medvedev was confronted by a pensioner who complained about the government's failure to index pensions. The prime minister replied: "There is no money. But be strong. All the best. Have a good day, and good health," he added. Then he turned round and left.
Since the incident, the video on YouTube has been watched over 3.5m times. The phrase itself immediately went viral, spawning dozens of memes on the Internet.''

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSq7oxM_fyo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSq7oxM_fyo)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 09, 2016, 04:25:28 PM
More on cost blowout. The money disappears in Putin's cronies pockets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Pf045Tcq8
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 09, 2016, 04:28:36 PM
Shsh---- dont tell Moby !
THE SCANDAL SURROUNDING THE KERCH BRIDGE IS GAINING MOMENTUM

"This kind of project can only implement the first ten of the insurance market by taking over 10% of the risk, and the rest is reinsured pool", - said the president of the All-Russian Union of Insurers, Igor Yurgens, but due to the fact that the builder - "podsanktsionnaya company to do it on West is impossible. " He also doubted that a company like KPSK be able to cover the risks of the project, but "we have in this [reinsurance] capacity not."

http://newsonline24.com.ua/skandal-vokrug-kerchenskogo-mosta-nabiraet-oboroty-bloger
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 09, 2016, 06:22:34 PM
Shsh---- dont tell Moby !
THE SCANDAL SURROUNDING THE KERCH BRIDGE IS GAINING MOMENTUM

"This kind of project can only implement the first ten of the insurance market by taking over 10% of the risk, and the rest is reinsured pool", - said the president of the All-Russian Union of Insurers, Igor Yurgens, but due to the fact that the builder - "podsanktsionnaya company to do it on West is impossible. " He also doubted that a company like KPSK be able to cover the risks of the project, but "we have in this [reinsurance] capacity not."

http://newsonline24.com.ua/skandal-vokrug-kerchenskogo-mosta-nabiraet-oboroty-bloger

Jay, every large project (or life insurance policy) is reinsured around the world.  It's not just this one.  However, I doubt that Russia would now be able to arrange reinsurance on any particular project outside its own borders, which would give me many sleepless nights if I was a Russian insurance company carrying any part of the risk.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 09, 2016, 07:45:48 PM
Yuriy Tandit, the advisor to the head of the SBU Security Service of Ukraine said said that from the standpoint of the Ukrainian legislation, the self-proclaimed leaders of terrorist organizations “DPR/LPR” Alexander Zakharchenko and Igor Plotnitskiy are criminals, therefore no direct negotiations with them are possible

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1368980-no-direct-talks-with-dpr-lpr-terrorists-possible-sbu-chiefs-advisor.html

No direct talks with DPR-LPR terrorists possible: SBU chief’s advisor



Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1368980-no-direct-talks-with-dpr-lpr-terrorists-possible-sbu-chiefs-advisor.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 09, 2016, 08:13:32 PM
Moby, clean off your specs..  :cluebat:  I omitted NOTHING!  :rolleyes:
 
I repeated their headlines. I didn't distort or alter anything.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 09, 2016, 09:26:52 PM
Moby, clean off your specs..  :cluebat:  I omitted NOTHING!  :rolleyes:
 
I repeated their headlines. I didn't distort or alter anything.

Nought wrong with my specs... headlines are  by their very nature so often misleading...



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 10, 2016, 06:21:11 AM
Then don't accuse me of omitting anything. That info wasn't stated in the title.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 10, 2016, 06:32:14 AM
Then don't accuse me of omitting anything. That info wasn't stated in the title.

To be clear, then..both the headline and you omitted the shortness of the ban AND  that she is appealing...

So.. lazy?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 10, 2016, 06:49:17 AM
Your grey cells must be still misfiring severely. I used quotation marks show it as a quote.  :rolleyes: No omission no alteraltion.  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 10, 2016, 07:01:00 AM
Your grey cells must be still misfiring severely. I used quotation marks show it as a quote.  :rolleyes: No omission no alteraltion.  :wallbash:

Yup...a lazy a copy and paste...   as usual....At least we know more,  now...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 10, 2016, 08:19:51 PM
And as usual you can't stomach the message so you attack the messenger.. :cluebat:

 Yup, we see how you are too.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 10, 2016, 09:37:30 PM
Bloomberg has an interesting take on the upcoming political situation in Russia.  The Duma and Putin's Cabinet are betting blamed for the lack of funds going around.

"Putin's Core Support Begins to Waver"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-09/putin-s-core-support-begins-to-waver
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 11, 2016, 12:36:24 AM
And as usual you can't stomach the message so you attack the messenger.. :cluebat:

 Yup, we see how you are too.

Mikey, babes ..

Do you seriously think Sharapova's extreme lack of judgement ...she never listed taking the drug - when it was allowed - she said taking it for heart condition -  is 'bad news'  for Russia  ;D ?

She lives in the USA and her Manager / Agent - who claims to be at fault - is hardly Russian, either ...

What I see is someone who is lazy about checking stuff - as the Sharapova case includes many westerners ..







Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Donhollio on June 11, 2016, 01:19:33 AM
Doping in sports continues in Russia. Wow.. after all the news about it they still persist.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-is-still-doping-german-documentary-claims/571534.html

More charges.

 http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/former-anti-doping-lab-head-accuses-more-russian-athletes-of-doping/571672.html6

And finally "Russia's Maria Sharapova Banned From Tennis"

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-maria-sharapova-banned-from-tennis/571582.html

 It's a typical way of doing things in Russia.  Such amature tactics with banned coaches right along side the athletes. All caught on video, and the child-like level of excuses and silly attempts to explain it all away start flowing. 
 Putin enacts a plan with no thought what happens when it goes off the rails. It doesn't seem to matter if it's a submarine, a nuclear reactor, or some doped up athletes.  The end result is always the same, ridiculous reasons always proven false, and blame the west. The ones who bully Russia.  It's a one ring circus inside Red Square.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 11, 2016, 01:32:16 AM
Hi Don

Actually meeting some Olympic athletes - sailing - I am sure there are athletes who are clean and are happy to be tested.

I cannot stand the Pole-Vaulter - Elena Isinbayeva - her homophobic attitude - but if she is clean - when should she be banned for the actions of others ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 12, 2016, 10:08:27 AM
Quite contrary to the 'peaches and cream' that others show as going on in Russia...

It's tough for the average citizen to have quality in their everyday lives with the pinch being felt at all levels.

"Just how bad is Russian economy?” and other neglected Russian Stories"
http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/06/11/just-how-bad-is-russian-economy-and-other-neglected-russian-stories/

http://www.interpretermag.com/june-10-2016/



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 12, 2016, 10:18:46 AM
The Russian "Fans" that have been running amok at the Euro soccer matches probably will cause more economic hurt for Russia.

"DW: Russia likely to be fined by UEFA after Euro violence in Marseille"

 Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1373089-dw-russia-likely-to-be-fined-by-uefa-after-euro-violence-in-marseille.html

"Russians Are Struggling to Afford Medication"
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/business/article/russians-are-struggling-to-afford-medication/571599.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 12, 2016, 01:31:45 PM
Gazeta.ru, hardly a friend to Ukraine reports that the 'breakaway republics' are in serious economic trouble.

 The major industries of the region, the two big steel plants Donetsk and Alchevsk have stopped and the coke plant is damaged and out of business for a while.


http:/www.gazeta.ru/politics/2016/06/09_a_8295857.shtml
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 12, 2016, 11:16:11 PM
Quite contrary to the 'peaches and cream' that others show as going on in Russia...

Did ANYONE bother to read AKAMike's 'bad news'?  People who've actually shopped for bread, bought alcohol or wonder what Tajikistan's TB problems has to do with Russia?

The infamous Ketch Bridge os STILL being built...

For sure, everyday Russians are tightening their belts and less travel abroad... but the moment the Russians tell my 'missus' that she cannot leave.... I will let you know.




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 13, 2016, 07:40:14 PM
Has anyone noticed how this poser pretends to know all that is possible to know about Russia yet rubs elbows with the rich oligarchs at the yacht club in the resort area of Sochi?
Hardly a man on the street view of life under the oppression of the Kremlin or suffering from the economic sanctions at the ground level.

 He can't attack a news source of repute that goes against the Kremlin's propaganda since it much more true than Pravada, Sputnik, RT Vice ect.  Every other Russian news source is a propaganda outlet aimed at creating a reality rather than reflecting it.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 13, 2016, 08:05:49 PM
His partner lives in Sochi.  Not everyone who lives there is an oligarch. :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on June 13, 2016, 11:23:08 PM
He can't attack a news source of repute that goes against the Kremlin's propaganda since it much more true than Pravada, Sputnik, RT Vice ect.  Every other Russian news source is a propaganda outlet aimed at creating a reality rather than reflecting it.

Usually a balanced view can only be derived using sources from all sides.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 13, 2016, 11:46:08 PM
Has anyone noticed how this poser pretends to know all that is possible to know about Russia yet rubs elbows with the rich oligarchs at the yacht club in the resort area of Sochi?


WHAT Oligarchs ....????  I got  into the sailing scene  via Boris - who works for Russian Railways- and earns pin money skippering Yachts....:D


Really, Mikey- is this the standard of your 'ripostes' and investigative 'research' ?

According to Mikey I'm a Putin Lover and in another place a Russo-phobe who's'working illegally' and shouldn't have his visa renewed  :popcorn:

Hardly a man on the street view of life under the oppression of the Kremlin or suffering from the economic sanctions at the ground level.

Based on your 'evidence' on my 'contacts'   ?  :puke:


He can't attack a news source of repute that goes against the Kremlin's propaganda since it much more true than Pravada, Sputnik, RT Vice ect.  Every other Russian news source is a propaganda outlet aimed at creating a reality rather than reflecting it.

What I want to see is factual reporting and - unlike you - I HAVE seen the reality, tasted the bread, etc., and whilst I agree that a lot of reports on Russian TV are 'naughty' - in what they leave out / emphasise  - or promoting disharmony in - say -Ukraine [ the UNHCR's words from Feb 2014 ]  I'll also point out when stuff isn't factual from UA or western media.

Now, any time you want to deal with my points - regarding the inaccuracy / irrelevancy of some of your 'bad news'  - rather than making risible comments about my 'contacts' .... you'll be welcome.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 13, 2016, 11:57:57 PM
Usually a balanced view can only be derived using sources from all sides.

The problem with that is that you ( and a small minority) deny the obvious conclusions from overwhelming evidence- and views of others. Being obtuse for the sake of it  and in denial of the obvious.

Upthread-- the OSCE reports were quoted-- in isolation.If you and others actually read these on a regular basis-- a very cl;ear pattern exists.

Previously-Ukraine has expressed concern about Russians being appointed to OSCE- for obvious reasons.
Now this-

The Russian media went into an orgy of lying which was gross enough to be picked up by the international media.  The latter unfortunately ignored the fact that the same lies about 400 bodies, many raped and tortured, were coming not only from Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, but also the Russian Investigative Committee.  At around that time, the Investigative Committee had even produced their very own Ukrainian ‘war criminal’ Serhiy Lytvynov whom they – and the Russian media – displayed ‘confessing’ to horrific war crimes.  Lytvynov had been seized and tortured into confessing to raping and murdering woman and children who quite simply had never existed.  When this was proven, Russia came up with a cynically implausible ‘robbery charge’ on which Lytvynov was recently sentenced to 8.5 years’ imprisonment.

Russian OSCE Appointee Implicated in Russia’s Fake Crimea Referendum & War Propaganda

Vladislav Grib, recently appointed a personal representative to the OSCE’s Chairperson-in-Office was directly involved in rubberstamping the scam ‘referendum’ used by Russia to try to justify its invasion and annexation of Crimea in 2014.   His new appointment as personal representative “on combating racism, xenophobia and discrimination”, etc. seems especially inappropriate given his part in warmongering lies in September 2014 which grossly distorted information provided by the OSCE Observer Mission in Ukraine

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1465595756

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 14, 2016, 12:00:46 AM

WHAT Oligarchs ....????  I got  into the sailing scene  via Boris - who works for Russian Railways- and earns pin money skippering Yachts....:D


Really, Mikey- is this the standard of your 'ripostes' and investigative 'research' ?



Do you get a joke? In this case-- a non serious comment.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 14, 2016, 12:04:34 AM
Do you get a joke? In this case-- a non serious comment.

The 'danger' of assuming one's emotion / intent will be perceived ... ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 14, 2016, 12:10:31 AM
The problem with that is that you ( and a small minority) deny the obvious conclusions from overwhelming evidence- and views of others. Being obtuse for the sake of it  and in denial of the obvious.

Upthread-- the OSCE reports were quoted-- in isolation.If you and others actually read these on a regular basis-- a very clear pattern exists.

JayH - Russia is a member of the Council of Europe and can appoint who-ever she likes - and you can point out their past...

As for the OSCE links - that you might suggest  - if taken in isolation - could misrepresent ...they were countering your contentions.

Kyiv agreed to the terms and conditions of Minsk II and the OSCE simply report what they see / encounter

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on June 16, 2016, 02:16:13 PM

  Or could it be soccer team fan problems?

Quote
  • Russia gets suspended ban for violence
  • Its team could still be disqualified
  • "Serious concerns" about stadium security
  • UK to deploy more police to France
On Tuesday, Russia was handed a suspended ban from Euro 2016 and could still be thrown out of the tournament if there is more trouble from its traveling fans.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/14/football/euro-2016-russia-ban-violence-news/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 17, 2016, 02:29:41 AM
Maybe if they take their shoes off they will be able to count past ten !! :)
Russian media quoted the minister of construction, acknowledged that the Kerch bridge too complicated for Russia. According to him, construction of the bridge "was harder than they thought," reports Joinfo.ua.

" However, at this point, all work disrupted due to lack of funds. "

The Kremlin has recognized that the construction of the bridge Kerch was "too complicated" for the Russian Federation



http://joinfo.ua/inworld/1171374_Kreml-priznal-stroitelstvo-Kerchenskogo-mosta.html


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 17, 2016, 07:26:15 AM
The EU just told that sanctions against Russia would be extended another year for stealing Crimea.   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/06/17-annexation-crimea-sevastopol-eu-extends-sanctions/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on June 17, 2016, 09:47:48 AM
Quote
Russia’s Track and Field Team Barred From Rio Olympics  By REBECCA R. RUIZJUNE 17, 2016
   Continue reading the main story (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/18/sports/olympics/russia-barred-rio-summer-olympics-doping.html#story-continues-1) Share This Page  (http://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/06/18/sports/18russia2_hp/18russia2_hp-master768.jpg)    In recent weeks, Olympians have called on sports officials to conduct further investigations into the extent of the cheating of which Russia has been accused.  Credit David J. Phillip/Associated Press           Russia’s track and field team has been barred from competing in this summer’s Rio Games because of a far-reaching doping conspiracy, an extraordinary punishment that might be without precedent in Olympics history.
The global governing body for track and field, known as the I.A.A.F., announced the decision on Friday, ruling in a unanimous vote that Russia had not done enough to restore global confidence in the integrity of its athletes.
The International Olympic Committee (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/i/international_olympic_committee/index.html?inline=nyt-org), the ultimate authority over the Games, is due to discuss the decision on Tuesday. If Olympics officials were to amend the ruling against Russia, it would be an unusual move, as they have historically deferred to the governing bodies for specific sports.
The Russian ministry of sport said in a statement on Friday that it was  extremely disappointed adding:  We now appeal to the members of the International Olympic Committee to not only consider the impact that our athletes’ exclusion will have on their dreams and the people of Russia, but also that the Olympics themselves will be diminished by their absence........................


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/18/sports/olympics/russia-barred-rio-summer-olympics-doping.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on June 17, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Quote
But individual athletes can compete as neutrals if they prove they are clean.
Meanwhile, Russian pole vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva said she would challenge the IAAF's decision in court, claiming it was "a human rights violation".
Isinbayeva, 34, who won Olympic gold in 2004 and 2008, added: "I'm disappointed and angry. I am offended. Nobody defended us.
"Nobody fought for our rights and there are huge concerns over the IAAF itself and its stance on defending the rights of clean athletes.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/36562570
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 17, 2016, 06:22:15 PM
It's ironic that the Russian pole vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva, starts crying about human rights violations considering her countries stance against Ukrainian Tartars.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on June 17, 2016, 06:50:32 PM
It's ironic that the Russian pole vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva, starts crying about human rights violations considering her countries stance against Ukrainian Tartars.  :rolleyes:


isn't it also ironic that the US chastises other nations like Russia for interfering when (according to Trump) we have been supporting al qeada, and who knows for sure what else?


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 17, 2016, 07:23:20 PM
It's ironic that the Russian pole vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva, starts crying about human rights violations considering her countries stance against Ukrainian Tartars.  :rolleyes:


Most athletes are hardly aware of human rights violations by countries.  I doubt Ms Isinbayeva is aware of the plight of Crimean Tatars.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 18, 2016, 01:17:19 AM
This really illustrates how BAD THE NEWS REALLY IN IN RUSSIA..
The sheer degree of the of the sham Putin still attempts to promote- and a series of illogical results as a conclusion is amazing.


Russia’s Putin slams West over backing 'coup d'etat' in Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin has strongly criticized the West's support for 'a coup d'etat' in Ukraine in 2014, blaming it for the bloodshed that plagued the country.

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/06/17/470910/Russia-Putin-Ukraine-coup-detat

TO CAP IT OFF-- Some of the trolls inane support about the article.Such incredulous stupidity is hard to believe any sane person could write it!! Of course-- we have a few on this forum that have said much the same !

Peter3 hours ago
Pres.Putin is the most humble, down to earth, God fearing and a simple man. He is not arrogant when others try to bully and honk him all because he takes the suppressed and oppressed peoples side. He needs peoples protection and support.

Peter3 hours ago
What the thieves fear most is the truth and nothing but the truth. Russia is such a vast country with less population and it does not need others land other than to protect it's borders. Many ex Soviet countries have Russian natives and Russia protects them.
Pres.Putin is a real leader, a statesman, a peace maker, a patient man, a gentleman and a scholar. He needs respect from the world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 18, 2016, 02:36:38 AM
Maybe if they take their shoes off they will be able to count past ten !! :)
Russian media quoted the minister of construction, acknowledged that the Kerch bridge too complicated for Russia. According to him, construction of the bridge "was harder than they thought," reports Joinfo.ua.

" However, at this point, all work disrupted due to lack of funds. "

The Kremlin has recognized that the construction of the bridge Kerch was "too complicated" for the Russian Federation



http://joinfo.ua/inworld/1171374_Kreml-priznal-stroitelstvo-Kerchenskogo-mosta.html

Yes, the Putin Bridges are proving more difficult and costly, but 'news' that the project has stopped is wishful thinking.

This will be the last project to be cut back..


The first - temporary bridge...from where the road and rail bridges will be constructed is well on the way ..


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 18, 2016, 04:33:37 PM
Putins backward looking policies have been the catalyst for the future!

RUSSIAN SPLIT PREDICTED

The next five years we will witness a global crisis from Uzhgorod to Vladivostok with serious territorial conflicts, tens of thousands of refugees and the possibility of boundary changes.

http://elise.com.ua/?p=195746
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Marriedman on June 18, 2016, 05:56:07 PM
USA has said they had spent $5 billion usd in Ukraine to make it more Western leaning.  Nuland did admit to the USA being involved.

USA and Russia both have their hands in Ukraine.  Both are dirty.

Ukraine is not really 1 country and once it splits up into regions into smaller countries will be better for everyone.  To much greed in play to let it turn into smaller countries.   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 18, 2016, 06:21:13 PM
Here is the link in whcih Nuland states the US had spent $5 billions in Ukraine.  That money was spent over time a period of a quarter century.  It was spent on supporting democratic institutions, such as the Razumkov Centre.  It was spent on programs against the proliferation of nuclear materials.  It was spent on programs against human trafficking and money laundering.  It was spent to decommission the Chernobyl nuclear power plant.  It was spent to fund civic engagement groups, programs to establish a rule of law, to fund election observers.


In short, contrary to what you appear to have posted, that money was not used to fund Euromaidan.  It was not spent to make the country "Western leaning".  It was to make it democratic.  I would argue the US taxpayer received good value for that $5 billion for, although Ukraine is corrupt, it is democratic in a way Russia is not.  Russia, BTW, received similar US funding, until it decided it would rather have the former KGB control most spheres of political, economic, and civic life in the country.


Here is the speech in which Nuland refers to that $5 billion. 


http://youtu.be/U2fYcHLouXY


The idea of some Americans that Ukraine is somehow strategically important to the US is silly.  However, democracies tend not to go to war against each other, and tend to be stable.  A stable Ukraine (and Russia, for that matter) is better for Europe, and the world, than are unstable regimes.


Ukraine is one country, at least, that is what its residents believe, if poll after poll on the issue over the past 15 years are to be believed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 18, 2016, 06:39:18 PM
USA has said they had spent $5 billion usd in Ukraine to make it more Western leaning.  Nuland did admit to the USA being involved.

USA and Russia both have their hands in Ukraine.  Both are dirty.

Ukraine is not really 1 country and once it splits up into regions into smaller countries will be better for everyone.  To much greed in play to let it turn into smaller countries.
[/color]
"I am a Westerner and fly into Crimea all the time and not from Russia.  Not sure about the sanctions unless your referring to Europe airports.

Florida to Turkey to Crimea.  1 stop. "


I can see how in touch you are( not) !!!  LoL!
So-- given the overall inaccuracy of your conclusions-- and the total BS of you flight comment-- show me which commercial flight you  take direct from Istanbul  to Simferopal?  Maybe you take charter flight? Or fly your own aircraft?
Maybe your comment is so out of date it illustrates  your ignorance.

Maybe you have not noticed that Russia is subject to substantial sanctions--over it's invasion of Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 19, 2016, 07:39:53 PM
This is for Moby-- see-- a virtual bridge !!!!! :popcorn:

The Russian showed virtual Crimean Bridge

The works, which are conducted in the Kerch Strait, were presented at the video in 360 degrees.
During the XX International Economic Forum in St. Petersburg, the participants and guests of the project was presented to the virtual bridge across the Kerch Strait.
As the press service of the administration of Kerch, which released a video report from the event, all interested persons was presented improvised helicopter cabin, equipped control levers, the monitor and the virtual reality goggles. It was installed on the stand of the bridge.
"Specially designed computer program will allow anyone to evaluate the project from the air and make some maneuvers, for example, to fly under navigable arches. Krymsky Bridge presentation was the most interactive. Visitors to the exhibition were able to not only see what will become a bridge to the future, but also to assess the scale of its construction ", - said in a statement.

http://korrespondent.net/world/russia/3700021-v-rossyy-pokazaly-vyrtualnyi-krymskyi-most

Virtual tour of the bridge Kerch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mArakul0sEI


And in case you missed  it  !!!!

Kerch bridge was left without funding

http://korrespondent.net/business/economics/3694514-kerchenskyi-most-ostalsia-bez-fynansyrovanyia-smy
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on June 19, 2016, 09:11:07 PM
What if Putin's buddies who were overpaid to build for Sochi games gave back the overpayments to build the bridge ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 19, 2016, 11:12:05 PM
This is for Moby-- see-- a virtual bridge !!!!! :popcorn:



Thanks, I'm already bored seeing it  ;D

In the mean time - whether we like it or not -one of  the temporary bridges - has just about complete...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 20, 2016, 05:14:42 AM
What if Putin's buddies who were overpaid to build for Sochi games gave back the overpayments to build the bridge ?

Pretty much the same chance as Putin being elected the next Pope!  8)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 21, 2016, 07:42:09 PM
Oh Yeah  things are so sweet in Russia. :cluebat:  Or not.. :rolleyes:

Russian Real Incomes Drop 11.5% in May

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-real-incomes-drop-by-11-5-percent-in-may/573084.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on June 21, 2016, 07:52:08 PM
Oh Yeah  things are so sweet in Russia. :cluebat:  Or not.. :rolleyes:

Russian Real Incomes Drop 11.5% in May

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-real-incomes-drop-by-11-5-percent-in-may/573084.html

I remember reading many moons ago that some survey info showed that a fairly substantial number of young Russian gals had as their objective:  "To become a hard currency prostitute."

Maybe there will be a return to this idea . . . if it ever left.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 21, 2016, 11:42:07 PM
As the author explains--it is not just sport affected by the state promoted cheating .

All Russians Are Tainted by Putin's Regime

As a Russian citizen, this stigma is hard for me to accept, but here are my choices: I can assume, as many Russians do, that the West hates my country and all its people, or I'm forced to prove that the Putin taint isn't on me. I understand why some see the latter option as humiliating, but I can't honestly support the former because I believe the regime to be rotten and worthy of condemnation. That doesn't mean the flag doesn't belong to me. too.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-21/all-russians-are-tainted-by-putin-s-regime
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 22, 2016, 06:12:32 PM
In early June, it was revealed however, that the construction of the bridge Kerch has stopped on December 1 last year. This bitter truth for wool could not keep silent even Russian TV channels. And here's a quote about a hypothetical bridge until May 2016:

Requiem for Kerch bridge

The tunnel can not be done.
In general, a bridge to build difficult, but possible .
It will cost in the region of $ 40 billion. .
But we do it will not.

http://oleg-leusenko.livejournal.com/4753298.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 22, 2016, 06:19:36 PM
In early June, it was revealed however, that the construction of the bridge Kerch has stopped on December 1 last year.

But this cannot be JayH!   :wallbash:

  Moldy flew by at 10,000 meters and personally saw work in progress.  :rolleyes:  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 22, 2016, 06:30:25 PM
But this cannot be JayH!   :wallbash:

  Moldy flew by at 10,000 meters and personally saw work in progress.  :rolleyes:  :crackwhip:
Maybe they used a video  of virtual bridge and played in aircraft windows-the  rose coloured windows !  ;D :welcome:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 22, 2016, 06:42:50 PM
 
Meanwhile !

Traffic Inspectorate ONF checked the progress of construction of the Crimean bridge
"Crimean bridge will be one of the largest in Russia. It will solve the problem of transport accessibility of the peninsula, promote tourism and give impetus to economic development of the South of Russia ", - said Vasilyev. 

http://onf.ru/2016/06/20/dorozhnaya-inspekciya-onf-proverila-hod-stroitelstva-krymskogo-mosta/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 23, 2016, 05:58:54 AM
Here's comparisons to some of the other world powers compared TO Russia.  Like Equatorial Guinea for an example.. Another powerhouse on the world's stage.

Putin’s Russia is a poor, drunk soccer hooligan

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/06/21/putin-russia-poor-drunk-soccer-hooligan/0HjzEzAUT4J58guK170F0H/story.html?event=event25
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on June 23, 2016, 08:43:32 AM
Here's comparisons to some of the other world powers compared TO Russia.  Like Equatorial Guinea for an example.. Another powerhouse on the world's stage.


Interesting article, and I agree Russia has lost importance, but not sure if all facts are correct.


Tanks Russia vs Pakistan for example.


http://www.globalfirepower.com/armor-tanks-total.asp (http://www.globalfirepower.com/armor-tanks-total.asp)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 23, 2016, 02:51:37 PM
But this cannot be JayH!   :wallbash:

  Moldy flew by at 10,000 meters and personally saw work in progress.  :rolleyes:  :crackwhip:

1/ If you seek to attempt to denigrate fact - by 'misspelling' my nick - you might be a more than a little desperate.

2/ The first temp bridge - there will be three temp bridges - is complete...'moldy' saw the first one was well on the way six months ago...

Naturally, I couldn't say if work was under way from 10km... but it's completion suggests the Kremlin must believe in Fairies - one having completed itself..

3/ Once more, I do not condone Kremlin 'away games' in Ukraine  - but [ constantly ] posting that 'work has stopped' ... Well, it's a little silly.

I have no doubt the project will run behind time and over budget, but it WILL get built ...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 23, 2016, 06:50:58 PM
2/ The first temp bridge - there will be three temp bridges - is complete...'moldy' saw the first one was well on the way six months ago...

Naturally, I couldn't say if work was under way from 10km... but it's completion suggests the Kremlin must believe in Fairies - one having completed itself..

While I have no quarrel with what you saw from the sky, moby, is there proof somewhere of the first temporary bridge being complete?  I would have thought that this would be trumpeted from the battlements, with accompanying flypasts and promotional videos to show how much the Russian Bear has accomplished in the face of such adversity.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 24, 2016, 06:53:29 AM
While I have no quarrel with what you saw from the sky, moby, is there proof somewhere of the first temporary bridge being complete?  I would have thought that this would be trumpeted from the battlements, with accompanying flypasts and promotional videos to show how much the Russian Bear has accomplished in the face of such adversity.

Hi

The first temp bridge from the Russian mainland to the island of Tuzla  was completed in Oct 2015

The temp bridge from the Russian mainland is out to the main span section - which cannot be blocked by joining - as it would block an international sea way
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 25, 2016, 06:32:31 AM
Not all Russian citizens are digesting the Kremlins spew.

 Russians Closer to Border Hold More Pro-Ukrainian Views
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russians-closer-to-border-hold-more-pro-ukrainian-views/573391.html

And horror of horrors,, Putin has decreed that beer sales are to be limited.. No more large economy size bottles. How will they be able to get thru the day?

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/putin-signs-law-limiting-russias-beer-sales/573392.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 27, 2016, 01:59:01 AM
Not all Russian citizens are digesting the Kremlins spew.

 Russians Closer to Border Hold More Pro-Ukrainian Views
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russians-closer-to-border-hold-more-pro-ukrainian-views/573391.html

Hmmm.... not my personal experience of attitudes in neighbouring Krasnodar and Rostov oblasts...


And horror of horrors,, Putin has decreed that beer sales are to be limited.. No more large economy size bottles. How will they be able to get thru the day?

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/putin-signs-law-limiting-russias-beer-sales/573392.html

Mikey misses that alcohol consumption is way down.

I don't know you would want to buy beer in a bottle greater than 1.5 l as unless you are a serious alchi the beer in our household would go flat...

Hardly 'bad news'... sensible I'd say..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on June 27, 2016, 02:14:32 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0w9rP-WvBQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0w9rP-WvBQ)

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/crimea-will-become-even-more-russian-video/ri15192 (http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/crimea-will-become-even-more-russian-video/ri15192)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 27, 2016, 08:16:02 PM
Despite some here  still suggesting otherwise- sanctions are not going anywhere.
There has been a concerted effort from the Kremlin to  try and convince everyone that the sanctions are about to be eased-- an ide that the Kremlin trolls promote at every opportunity.It is typical of the attempts to promote confusion in the western media.

EU to extend Russia sanctions


The EU is fully ready to prolong its sanctions on Russia, in a sign that the bloc’s foreign policy still works despite the British referendum.

http://euobserver.com/foreign/134059
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 27, 2016, 11:50:56 PM
JayH

the article does not make it clear..are these the EU sanctions relating to Crimea .... or relating to MH17 / 'away games' in E.Ukraine?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on June 28, 2016, 12:13:37 PM
French National Assembly Votes to Lift Russian Sanctions.http://www.newsweek.com/french-national-assembly-votes-lift-russian-sanctions-453791 (http://www.newsweek.com/french-national-assembly-votes-lift-russian-sanctions-453791)Extending Russia sanctions ‘more difficult’ as resistance in EU grows – German FM (http://thetruenews.info/2016/05/26/extending-russia-sanctions-more-difficult-as-resistance-in-eu-grows-german-fm/)http://thetruenews.info/2016/05/26/extending-russia-sanctions-more-difficult-as-resistance-in-eu-grows-german-fm/ (http://thetruenews.info/2016/05/26/extending-russia-sanctions-more-difficult-as-resistance-in-eu-grows-german-fm/)
Seems not everyone wants the sanctions to continue.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 28, 2016, 12:22:03 PM
Seems news from a month ago or more is not very relevant.


http://euobserver.com/foreign/134059
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 28, 2016, 12:25:00 PM
Incidentally, the French vote was non binding.  It was passed 55-44, in an assembly with 577 sitting members.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on June 28, 2016, 05:00:23 PM
Incidentally, the French vote was non binding.  It was passed 55-44, in an assembly with 577 sitting members.
You are correct the vote is not binding, still the French vote and the statements coming out of Germany point to a direction.

Europe is tired of a failed policy and wants to normalize relations with Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 28, 2016, 05:33:47 PM
The EU just extended sanctions.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on June 28, 2016, 06:49:58 PM
The EU just extended sanctions.
Yes for 6 months, then what? All it takes is one member state to say no and the game is up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 28, 2016, 07:35:10 PM
JayH

the article does not make it clear..are these the EU sanctions relating to Crimea .... or relating to MH17 / 'away games' in E.Ukraine?


Does it matter?  :cluebat: :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 28, 2016, 10:48:20 PM
It matters for those who are interested in accuracy......
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 28, 2016, 10:56:55 PM
Yes for 6 months, then what? All it takes is one member state to say no and the game is up.

Where you one of those telling us that Europe would not agree to continue this time?..

May be better not to suggest the feelings of EU citizens on rhis matter. Your 'opinion' seems more based on wishful thinking than fact...





[/quote]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on June 29, 2016, 08:10:28 AM
Where you one of those telling us that Europe would not agree to continue this time?..

May be better not to suggest the feelings of EU citizens on rhis matter. Your 'opinion' seems more based on wishful thinking than fact...
Wishful thinking?

Like many others I firmly believed the British vote would favor stay, I was very surprised when the vote was clearly to leave. Good for the British people, they have taken the first steps to regain their sovereignty as a free and independent people.

Hopefully others will follow and foster the continuation of the movement towards freedom from bureaucratic control
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 29, 2016, 08:29:55 AM
It matters for those who are interested in accuracy......

Then do your own due diligence. Russia is being 'spanked' for invasion as well as the airliner.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 29, 2016, 09:54:37 AM
Finally a snippet of good news for Russia!  :clapping:

Vodka production is up 30%!

 Of course that is because they busted 11 illegal plants making untaxed vodka so the legal ones stepped up to fill the void. Way to go! Keep the unwashed masses drunk and happy.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russian-vodka-production-up-by-30/573745.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 29, 2016, 11:27:42 PM
Then do your own due diligence. Russia is being 'spanked' for invasion as well as the airliner.

I have... hence my question to JayH .... I expect neither of you realised that there are TWO sets of sanctions..

1/ relating to Crimea

2/ relating to 'away games in e.Ukraine'


'Our' sanctions target those close to the Kremlin or support / derive benefit from it's policies...the 'spanking' is the Russian 'counter sanctions' on w.farmers....  not that that should discourage the principle. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 29, 2016, 11:32:31 PM
Wishful thinking?

Like many others I firmly believed the British vote would favor stay,

Nice try to deflect.... my 'wishful thinking' observation on your part was the 'ending' of sanctions - which didn't happen ....

If I only had a GBP for every time I heard 'next time you'll see' every time they are renewed - this is the 4/5th time, re Crimea.....



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 30, 2016, 12:24:35 AM
I trust you are not suggesting that Mike or I are not aware of the detail of the sanctions !! mmmm
Personally-if I was negotiating with Russia-- I would say-- "The sanctions will not be lifted for an equivalent time Russia takes to comply"-ie  that is 18 months now-- so Russia complies-then 18 months !!Russia is gambling on outlasting EU resolve-- and still being in a position to dictate terms-that idea needs to be removed.
Meanwhile-

As some in EU wobble, Merkel and Hollande confirm extension of sanctions on Russia

The EU first imposed economic sanctions against Russia in July 2014 and in March 2015 “the European Council linked the duration of those economic restrictions to the complete implementation of the Minsk agreements,” EU official website states.

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/as-some-in-eu-wobble-merkel-and-hollande-confirm-extension-of-sanctions-on-russia-417409.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 30, 2016, 01:37:34 AM
The worlds biggest country geographically is doing it's best to become a 3rd world country!

Russia's Disgrace

According to the latest data from the International Monetary Fund, Russia's economy in terms roughly equivalent to Australia and South Korea concedes. Her role as an exporter is not so significant as the role of Belgium, Mexico and Singapore.

And it is - poor. World Bank for per capita GDP the size of the population has placed Russia below Lithuania, Equatorial Guinea and Kazakhstan. The proportion of the population living below the poverty line is higher in Russia than in India, Indonesia and Sri Lanka. Global Competition Index placed Russia on the 67th, the UN Human Development Index - 66 th place.

http://www.technosotnya.com/2016/06/Skott-Gilmor-opozoril-Rossiju-na-ves-mir-vystupiv-s-shokirujushhim-zajavleniem.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on June 30, 2016, 02:00:31 AM
And it is - poor. World Bank for per capita GDP the size of the population has placed Russia below Lithuania, Equatorial Guinea and Kazakhstan. The proportion of the population living below the poverty line is higher in Russia than in India, Indonesia and Sri Lanka.


I've always wondered about this. The Russia I see on TV seems to have quite a number of wealthy people and my wife's last trip to Moscow she said there was wealth and business appeared fine. I imagine much of the poverty lies outside the major cities? Obviously the shows on TV only show the rich jet setter kids so not a true reflection of the country as a whole.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 30, 2016, 06:24:32 AM
I trust you are not suggesting that Mike or I are not aware of the detail of the sanctions !! mmmm



That's
exactly what I'm saying - and your [ non  ] alacrity re telling us which set of sanctions were being renewed amply demonstrated my point... :popcorn:

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 30, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
I've always wondered about this. The Russia I see on TV seems to have quite a number of wealthy people and my wife's last trip to Moscow she said there was wealth and business appeared fine. I imagine much of the poverty lies outside the major cities? Obviously the shows on TV only show the rich jet setter kids so not a true reflection of the country as a whole.

I would guess that there's now plenty of poverty inside the cities as well.  One of our TV channels has just shown a BBC documentary called "Across Russia on Four Wheels," in which two of their journalists, starting in Sochi, drove different routes and vehicles, meeting all sorts of people along the way.  One drove an ancient Soviet Umaz jeep (which kept breaking down) through Volgograd, Togliatti, Perm, Chelyabinsk and Ekaterinburg, ending near the border with Kazakhstan.  The other drove an oligarch's "Kombat" (four ton armoured equivalent of a Hummer) to Moscow, St Petersburg and Murmansk.  In St Petersburg she met a group of people from the "Stans," and their lifestyle is quite different from the yuppies of the "reality" shows.  :o

The most interesting part of the show for me, however, was not what they did - it was the fact that the documentary was made just before the Sochi Winter Olympics, and they were granted all sorts of access permissions that were absolutely mind-boggling.  The guy driving east even managed to get into the gulag museum at Perm 64, as well as the annual arms fair at Nizhny Tagil, for goodness' sake - where he bumped into Prime Minister Medvedyev!  Somehow I don't think they would be able to do the same thing now.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 30, 2016, 08:09:11 PM
I have... hence my question to JayH .... I expect neither of you realised that there are TWO sets of sanctions..

1/ relating to Crimea

2/ relating to 'away games in e.Ukraine'


'Our' sanctions target those close to the Kremlin or support / derive benefit from it's policies...the 'spanking' is the Russian 'counter sanctions' on w.farmers....  not that that should discourage the principle.

We're very much aware of two sets of sanctions but by the way you worded it you weren't at that point.  You must have done some DD and found out all by your lonesome.

 More sanctions are needed against Russia for their continued "away games" and ignoring the Minsk agreement I and II
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 30, 2016, 09:21:12 PM
At least one Russian "get's it".

Quote
Russian diplomat: "Sooner or later, Russia will have to apologize to Ukraine and compensate for damages inflicted" Ex-Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia (1991-1993), Ambassador Georgiy Kunadze in an interview with UNIAN has told about similarities in the Kremlin's decisions to deploy troops in Afghanistan in 1979 and in Ukraine in 2014, and why the Russian special operations in Crimea and Donbas were in fact failures.

 Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1392256-russian-diplomat-sooner-or-later-russia-will-have-to-apologize-to-ukraine-and-compensate-for-damages-inflicted.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on June 30, 2016, 11:01:45 PM
We're very much aware of two sets of sanctions

Koneshno....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on July 01, 2016, 09:06:22 AM
I would guess that there's now plenty of poverty inside the cities as well.  One of our TV channels has just shown a BBC documentary called "Across Russia on Four Wheels," in which two of their journalists, starting in Sochi, drove different routes and vehicles, meeting all sorts of people along the way.  One drove an ancient Soviet Umaz jeep (which kept breaking down) through Volgograd, Togliatti, Perm, Chelyabinsk and Ekaterinburg, ending near the border with Kazakhstan.  The other drove an oligarch's "Kombat" (four ton armoured equivalent of a Hummer) to Moscow, St Petersburg and Murmansk.  In St Petersburg she met a group of people from the "Stans," and their lifestyle is quite different from the yuppies of the "reality" shows.  :o


Sounds like an interesting show. Spasibo Kiwi.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 03, 2016, 03:34:06 AM
Russian Health Ministry Bans Patients from Dying to 'Not Ruin Stats'

Headline/quote of the year, surely!!!!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 03, 2016, 07:12:49 AM
Yeah, those pesky patients dying will really wreck havoc with the stats.  :wallbash: It makes the Dr's and the health industry look bad.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on July 04, 2016, 08:17:00 AM
Not surprising that the video focus more on propaganda than on cold hard realities. Of course, Russia Insider pretends to be an independent news source, and even accepts private donations, but in reality they are a slick propaganda organization. Ownership of the group however is clear--a division of RBTH, and directly funded and controlled by the RT (Kremlin owned) group.

The Moscow Times (now owned and controlled by Russians due to the new media ownership law of January 2016) takes a realistic view, acknowledging that the bridge will be built, but not without engineering and economic challenges. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/why-kerch-may-prove-a-bridge-too-far-for-russia/572692.html


The Duma has pledged $4 Billion (USD) in funding, but as of last month contractors were more than a month behind in payments from Moscow. The Kremlin says that the funding delays are only temporary and that the contractors will eventually be paid.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 05, 2016, 01:38:44 AM
Hi Mendy

the article was discussed on this very thread .... my take being that these bridges WILL get built - even if they are late - as they are Putin's legacy ...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on July 05, 2016, 02:34:56 AM

The Duma has pledged $4 Billion (USD) in funding, but as of last month contractors were more than a month behind in payments from Moscow. The Kremlin says that the funding delays are only temporary and that the contractors will eventually be paid.


Reminds me of a Russian saying told to me by my wife...  "Everything costs money, except work, which is free...".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on July 05, 2016, 06:47:36 AM

Russian Health Ministry Bans Patients from Dying to 'Not Ruin Stats'

One humorous doctor I visited here in USA said:
"Be careful driving out of parking lot.  If you get killed there, it goes against my statistics."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 06, 2016, 12:32:28 AM
Not all Russians are mentally challenged!

Not even most of'em....

A fresh poll by the Levada Center shows that 38% believe that the polls will be rigged in the 2016 Duma elections in some form. 44% believe that it will be fair and impartial. While the smart 19% ones (possibly fearing reprisals ) refused to answer.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/third-of-russians-expect-rigged-2016-duma-elections/574066.html

Mikey, if you chose to ask folks who go there -  a lot - or even live there - they'd tell you that they KNOW their leadership is corrupt - but they prefer a 'strong leader' ...

I know that the regime has made it nearly impossible to start a new political party - fearing people power...but there is not anywhere near a majority wants change...

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on July 06, 2016, 10:16:48 PM
Despite Moldy's attempts to paint it otherwise--the statistics show what the situation is-

Rich Russians Take a Hit

Russian upper-middle and upper-class households have lost almost half of their income in the past year. Losses to families with an annual income ranging from 15 million to 100 million rubles ($250,000 to $1,500,000) vary from 25% to 75%, Vedomosti writes, citing an independent study titled Russian Wealth Report 2016.

Russians with passive income—rentiers—were hit the hardest. Most of their assets are either bank deposits or property located in Russia, and these provide income in rubles. These people, however, prefer to live abroad and spend foreign currencies. Their incomes have shrunk by 75%. According to the report, every fifth wealthy Russian is a rentier.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/07/06/rich-russians-take-a-hit/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 07, 2016, 06:13:20 AM
Despite Moldy's attempts to paint it otherwise--the statistics show what the situation is-

Rich Russians Take a Hit

'Moldy' doesn't remember trying to paint another picture ...other than the true picture - which you SO often do - you having been there so recently - NOT ..  :D



Russian upper-middle and upper-class households have lost almost half of their income in the past year. Losses to families with an annual income ranging from 15 million to 100 million rubles ($250,000 to $1,500,000) vary from 25% to 75%, Vedomosti writes, citing an independent study titled Russian Wealth Report 2016.

Russians with passive income—rentiers—were hit the hardest. Most of their assets are either bank deposits or property located in Russia, and these provide income in rubles. These people, however, prefer to live abroad and spend foreign currencies. Their incomes have shrunk by 75%. According to the report,every fifth wealthy Russian is a rentier.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/07/06/rich-russians-take-a-hit/

I don't remember saying that the 'crisis' wasn't effecting people in Russia.. just that the degree was exaggerated

Naturally, if you live outside Russia and derive income FROM Russia - In Roubles - one is going to have taken a hit commensurate with a 50 percent devaluation...

So JayH

What are you  suggesting about Russians who choose to live in the west ?


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 07, 2016, 09:29:39 PM
It probably means that the rich smart ones are flying the coop looking for freedom that isn't in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: TigerPaws on July 08, 2016, 06:00:40 AM
Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith'Will require any sharing … even a casual conversation, to have prior authorization from state'“The new law will require any sharing of the Christian faith – even a casual conversation – to have prior authorization from the state,”
http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/russia-puts-lid-on-christians-sharing-faith/ (http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/russia-puts-lid-on-christians-sharing-faith/)
This is not a positive development.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 08, 2016, 07:38:13 PM
 :cluebat:  They're regressing back to the dark old days of the soviet totalitarianism. The state is the omnipotent power and all it's serfs shall bow before it.  :cluebat:

 They've got their 'strong leader' alright.   :crackwhip:

 Now wonder that so many could afford it have already left.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 09, 2016, 09:30:31 PM
It probably means that the rich smart ones are flying the coop looking for freedom that isn't in Russia.

As JayH copied and pasted said article - it would be great to hear his opinion... Yours was typical and unthinking... There's been many successful Russian emigres to the west... Not sure of any point to be scored ......
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 10, 2016, 09:02:45 AM
Recently a link was shown about Russian's lack of faith in their fair elections. Now the Kremlin has blocked websites protesting this and calling for election boycotts. There's the "strong leadership" in all it's glory! Are they beginning to worry about the people's actual desires about the leadership?

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-internet-watchdog-blocks-sites-calling-for-election-boycott/574627.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 10, 2016, 09:08:16 AM
More on the bad news about the Kerch Bridge fiasco, 'Putin's Legacy'.
Opening has been set back to at least Dec. 2019 for the rail part and the road isn't determined..

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/bridge-linking-crimea-to-russia-pushed-back-another-year/574523.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 10, 2016, 08:33:31 PM
The IAAF banned all Russian's from the Rio Summer Olympics except for one. ( Winners never cheat and cheaters never win)   :cluebat: :crackwhip: :crackwhip:

http://uatoday.tv/sport/russia-doping-692234.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 11, 2016, 11:11:10 AM
Now that one athlete, Darya Klishina a long distance jumper is being declared a traitor to Russia by many because she is going as an independent. US based and drug free, Darya is the only one of 67 applicants that has been granted the independent status for the games. The rest of Russia athletes won't be able to compete. Many prior medals have been taken back after drug testing on samples from earlier games were re-tested.

Russians Jeer 'Traitor' Cleared To Compete At Rio Olympics

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-olympics-klishina-criticism-traitor/27852464.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 11, 2016, 03:57:17 PM
Now that one athlete, Darya Klishina a long distance jumper is being declared a traitor to Russia by many because she is going as an independent. US based and drug free, Darya is the only one of 67 applicants that has been granted the independent status for the games. The rest of Russia athletes won't be able to compete. Many prior medals have been taken back after drug testing on samples from earlier games were re-tested.

Russians Jeer 'Traitor' Cleared To Compete At Rio Olympics

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-olympics-klishina-criticism-traitor/27852464.html

I rather think it's 'good news' for Athletes declared 'clean'... the proper headline might have been ''SOME Russians Jeer 'Traitor' Cleared To Compete At Rio Olympics '' as it implies some internet trolls reflect public opinion, in general 

I note you failed to quote this from the article ...

Russian lawmaker Svetlana Zhurova tried to rein in the critics. "There's no reason to pounce on the sportswoman. We are ourselves putting pressure on the girl, and when she wins a medal we'll be sorry," she told LifeNews. "It's not a fact that Klishina is the only one who will be going to the Olympics."



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 11, 2016, 05:13:18 PM
The results of the Warsaw NATO summit show overwhelming support for Ukraine. Bad Vlad must be getting nervous. His grandiose imperial aspirations are hitting resistance from a unified NATO.

Ukraine gains strong NATO support at the summit in Warsaw

http://24today.net/open/681908
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 11, 2016, 06:16:18 PM
More on the bad news about the Kerch Bridge fiasco, 'Putin's Legacy'.
Opening has been set back to at least Dec. 2019 for the rail part and the road isn't determined..

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/bridge-linking-crimea-to-russia-pushed-back-another-year/574523.html

Whilst I -personally - find it amusing that Putin and his Judo buddy - who was awarded the contract to build the bridges - seem to be in disagreement - the fact is that Putin's legacy will get built....


I noticed that the US govt is allowing one US company to resume operations in Crimea..

Thanks for posting the article that included the link...

Does this count as bad or good news for AKMike,I wonder....

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/first-american-company-to-return-to-crimea-since-russia-sanctions/574325.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/first-american-company-to-return-to-crimea-since-russia-sanctions/574325.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 11, 2016, 08:14:22 PM
The IAAF banned all Russian's from the Rio Summer Olympics except for one. ( Winners never cheat and cheaters never win)   :cluebat: :crackwhip: :crackwhip:

http://uatoday.tv/sport/russia-doping-692234.html

Sure be interested in where you're getting your news from.  I read the same article and the only athletes that I see banned are the members of the Russian track and field team.  Currently there are over 300 Russian athletes scheduled to compete.  While further sanctions may be forthcoming, your post is somewhat in need of correction.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 11, 2016, 10:02:43 PM
I guess that you didn't notice the title of the article jone..

 Wouldn't it be more proper to ask that question to UATODAY and not me?  :rolleyes:


  If you read this article ( as claimed) point out anywhere in it that shows anything about 300 more Russian's scheduled top compete. Better yet,, I'll save you some time..   IT DOESN"T SAY IT!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 11, 2016, 10:08:06 PM
Here are ton's more links to the banning of Russian dopers from the Rio Summer Olympics.


http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GUEA_enUS644US645&q=iaaf+banning+russia (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GUEA_enUS644US645&q=iaaf+banning+russia)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 12, 2016, 02:01:47 AM
I guess that you didn't notice the title of the article jone..

 Wouldn't it be more proper to ask that question to UATODAY and not me?  :rolleyes:


  If you read this article ( as claimed) point out anywhere in it that shows anything about 300 more Russian's scheduled top compete. Better yet,, I'll save you some time..   IT DOESN"T SAY IT!

Mikey,

IF you are posting the articles - you are  suggesting tacit agreement...

The Russian [domestic -based ] athletes [ track and field] are banned...not the sailors,  divers, swimmers, cyclists, etc..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics)

So, 300 plus representatives  ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 13, 2016, 11:43:32 AM
I guess that you didn't notice the title of the article jone..

 Wouldn't it be more proper to ask that question to UATODAY and not me?  :rolleyes:


  If you read this article ( as claimed) point out anywhere in it that shows anything about 300 more Russian's scheduled top compete. Better yet,, I'll save you some time..   IT DOESN"T SAY IT!

Mike,

You post many articles and give a summary of the article in a single line.  Of course the article was misleading.  Your inclusion of it on the forum without the disclaimer of it being misleading should draw some comment from the peanut gallery. 

Why should I contact the people of some ultra nationalist Ukraine blog for accuracy when you are the one who is posting it as truth, here on the forum?

I would rather you give your opinion on things rather than post news that is purposely misleading.   You are not William Randolph Hearst.    ;)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 14, 2016, 06:24:46 AM
Russia makes a statue to one of their most terrible leaders..

Ivan the Terrible

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-to-build-statue-of-ivan-the-terrible/575076.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 14, 2016, 06:38:06 AM
Russia is selling off some of the state assets trying to raise cash, If course they'll re-nationalize them later on as they've done before I'd guess.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/reluctantly-russia-starts-sell-off-of-major-state-companies/575094.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/reluctantly-russia-starts-sell-off-of-major-state-companies/575094.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 15, 2016, 07:59:38 AM
3B fine against Gazprom is upheld in UA's highest economic court.

"Ukraine’s Antimonopoly Committee (AMCU) fined the energy giant in January for “abuse of its dominant position in the country’s gas supply network.”

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ukraine-upholds-gazprom-s-3bln-fine/575070.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ukraine-upholds-gazprom-s-3bln-fine/575070.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 15, 2016, 10:09:30 AM
3B fine against Gazprom is upheld in UA's highest economic court.

"Ukraine’s Antimonopoly Committee (AMCU) fined the energy giant in January for “abuse of its dominant position in the country’s gas supply network.”

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ukraine-upholds-gazprom-s-3bln-fine/575070.html (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ukraine-upholds-gazprom-s-3bln-fine/575070.html)


Dear Messenger - rather than 'shoot' you - please explain how this fine will be enforced ? ...Hardly 'bad' news...

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 16, 2016, 06:53:52 AM
If that ruling is upheld in a international court it'll be bad news. (assuming appeal) Since Gazprom fought it and not just ignored it they must think it's got some credence.  :crackwhip:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 16, 2016, 07:05:31 AM
If that ruling is upheld in a international court it'll be bad news. (assuming appeal) Since Gazprom fought it and not just ignored it they must think it's got some credence.  :crackwhip:

Mikey

You might not be aware that the Duma passed law that says ' we will ignore' intl couft rulings we dont like!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on July 16, 2016, 01:33:09 PM
If that ruling is upheld in a international court it'll be bad news. (assuming appeal) Since Gazprom fought it and not just ignored it they must think it's got some credence.


The Антимонопольний комітет України is not a court.  It is a committee that reports to politicians.  Furthermore, even if it were a court, decisions in domestic courts are not appealed to international courts.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 17, 2016, 05:06:01 PM

The Антимонопольний комітет України is not a court.  It is a committee that reports to politicians.  Furthermore, even if it were a court, decisions in domestic courts are not appealed to international courts.


Those darned Russian's can't get an article right I guess.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 17, 2016, 08:50:05 PM
More findings on the Russian Olympic doping due to be released on Monday.

Russia doping: Wada to publish Sochi 2014 doping findings

http://www.bbc.stfi.re/sport/athletics/36821181?sf=xwajapz#aa (http://www.bbc.stfi.re/sport/athletics/36821181?sf=xwajapz#aa)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 18, 2016, 09:16:07 AM
The much anticipated report from WADA is out... They are calling for the  ENTIRE Russian team to be excluded from the Rio Olympics. The government knew all about it.   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/wada-calls-for-russia-ban-from-rio-olympics-54630 (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/wada-calls-for-russia-ban-from-rio-olympics-54630)


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2016/jul/18/wada-mclaren-report-russia-sochi-2014-doping-live (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2016/jul/18/wada-mclaren-report-russia-sochi-2014-doping-live)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on July 18, 2016, 09:26:20 AM
What a great name.  WADA.

In 1960s-1970s there was the American Institute for Decision Sciences (AIDS).

Once the AIDS problem became well known, they had to change the name in 1980s to Decision Sciences Institute (DSI).

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 18, 2016, 11:59:14 AM
Given the information of systematic doping by the Russian government, it makes FIFAs 2018 World Cup's venue even less desirable.  I don't think that there are too many people who think Russia will play fair after these latest disclosures.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 18, 2016, 04:06:35 PM
The International Olympic Committee has said that they'll take the harshest sanctions available towards Russia after this latest doping scandal. 

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-doping-wada-report-mclaren-sochi/27865365.html (http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-doping-wada-report-mclaren-sochi/27865365.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2016, 04:08:31 PM
It's 85% complete, and at one time, there was a livecam on it (probably now taken down for security reasons), which showed the stadium was, indeed, on schedule.  So, I suspect it will be completed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 18, 2016, 06:05:43 PM
Wrong thread Boe.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on July 18, 2016, 06:07:06 PM
Oops.  Thanks.  I was responding to this -


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=post;quote=437368;topic=21062.0;last_msg=437379
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on July 19, 2016, 05:28:37 AM

Those darned Russian's can't get an article right I guess.  :rolleyes:

Most of us are more careful about the veracity of the material we post ...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on July 22, 2016, 08:49:58 PM
And yet once again, construction workers at Vostochny Cosmodrome are on strike for unpaid wages.  :wallbash:
 
Spetsdorstroi, the employer has paid 41% of the May wages and 5,000 rubles ($75US)towards Julys wages.
 Early this month another group with a different employer were also out on strike for the same reason.

http://themoscowtimes.com/news/workers-at-vostochny-cosmodrome-on-strike-again-54704 (http://themoscowtimes.com/news/workers-at-vostochny-cosmodrome-on-strike-again-54704)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on August 02, 2016, 03:42:34 PM
Quote
Anthrax kills one, infects 21 others as melting permafrost causes outbreak in Russia's far north
Quote
Russia has confirmed 21 cases of anthrax, including one fatality, after an unusual heatwave melted permafrost in its remote far north, releasing potentially lethal spores from the soil.  Key points:
  • 12-year-old boy died on Monday
  • First outbreak in region since 1941
  • Authorities say there is "no epidemic"
 
"Unfortunately 20 people had their [anthrax] diagnosis confirmed," a spokeswoman for the Yamalo-Nenetsky regional authorities told the RIA Novosti news agency.
In addition, a 12-year-old boy died in hospital on Monday.
The number of those hospitalised on suspicion of infection rose to 90 people, 45 of them children, regional officials said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-03/21-infected-in-far-north-russia-anthrax-outbreak/7684014
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 01, 2016, 05:56:17 PM
The net tightens for Putin ! Can he possibly get rid of any & all  "opposition" to his regime before reality catches up?

The "Kremlin" a serious problem.
It is this problem rests in the fact that a group of persons known to you, usurped state power in Russia, it is extremely important formal criteria of legality of finding them in power.

That is why the "Kremlin" lay himself out, so as not to give anyone a formal, legally proven reason to doubt that they are in power in full compliance with the formal requirements of the law. That is why they are every step obkladyvayut formal "will" of the people and its legal representatives, and stamped "justifying" the government's decision, even in cases when they are not needed.

http://newsonline24.com.ua/vot-eto-novost-iz-za-kryma-gosduma-rossii-budet-vne-zakona
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmobyone on September 02, 2016, 04:23:21 AM
More doctored images ....JayH - please be more careful about the veracity of your 'sources'  - if you want your 'msg' to hit home
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 05, 2016, 12:29:46 AM
Not sure if I can keep pointing out that the sanctions are not about to go away. We still have forum fools posting they will soon be lifted--the fact is they are being widened - and will continue to until Russia can learn to be a good world citizen again!
For those that keep posting on Putin's so called popularity based on polls - wake up .  He is taking them on a path to destroy Russia.


US expands Russia sanctions over Ukraine conflict


Washington (AFP) - The United States announced a long list of sanctioned companies and individuals on Thursday aimed at Russia over its continuing support for Ukraine's rebels and the 2014 seizure of Crimea.

The list took aim at a key unit of Bank Rossiya, often called the personal bank of Russian president Vladimir Putin, and some of Russia's largest construction companies.

It included 17 Ukrainian separatists, 11 of them officials of the government Russia established in Crimea after illegally annexing the northern Black Sea peninsula in 2014.

And it also blacklisted a large number of Russian companies operating in Crimea, including major maritime and defense businesses.

The sanctions aim to lock those blacklisted out of global financial networks, thereby limiting their ability to do business, by banning any US entities and individuals from doing business with them.

That would impact not only US banks but also the US branches of foreign banks, making it difficult for them to serve the sanctioned firms.

The US Treasury said the new move aims at countering efforts by Russian entities to circumvent existing sanctions on individuals and companies.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/us-expands-russia-sanctions-over-ukraine-conflict-165853444.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=fb
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 08, 2016, 05:05:38 PM
The assessment of some reputable analysts is about as close as is guessable on what direction Putin and Russia will take.The explanations are  excellent summaries across a wide range of issues that relate directly to the Russian interference and occupation in Ukraine.
One thing that all seem to agree with-- Putin is on borrowed time.( That is of course-- good news for the world-- but from Putin's  perspective--Bad News !!)

There are many interesting comments-I have included translation of a few here.

Taran: Putin could back out now, and it would be one price. Maybe in a year - but the price will be another. But I think the current situation is no longer possible to go to Putin. No decision will not lead to the strengthening of its authority. If he compromises with regard to Ukraine, or other geopolitical points, it does not understand in Russian. Putin has put himself into a corner. He lacked decision-making strategy. Consider it a few steps further - probably would not have started their senseless adventure in Ukraine. He is not a strategist. His steps are calculated for a maximum of a few months. The same thing happened before the G20. That trouble is that Putin is unpredictable. But I think we can expect that in a few years, Russia's economy will collapse, and that's all over.


"The Russian economy will collapse - and that was the end"


Oreshkin: Each quarter is becoming increasingly clear that sanctions have a lasting and devastating impact on the Russian economy. Of course, Putin needed to have the sanctions lifted, but it is necessary to save face, look the winner in the domestic media market. Removal of sanctions would be interpreted as a major political victory for Putin. Although opportunities corridor he narrows quite quickly. The economy is firmly seated on the bottom, in August fell by 20% reserves of the Reserve Fund and National Welfare Fund. Of course, Putin has wider smile in the direction of Western partners and try to find an alternative source of financing in the East - we are talking about China and Japan, and it is also not easy.

http://ru.krymr.com/a/27970908.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Muzh on September 09, 2016, 10:43:14 AM
Jay, you don't give up on your wishful thinking, do you?



The Woman Who Revived Russia’s Markets
Many investors credit central-bank chief Elvira Nabiullina for Russia’s resurgence


August 23, 2016


Quote

Russian markets are red hot again.


Two years after plunging oil prices and Western economic sanctions fueled an investor exodus, the Micex stock index on Tuesday hit an all-time high. It is up 25% this year in dollar terms, making Russia the sixth-best performer among 23 emerging countries tracked by MSCI Inc.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/emerging-markets-rising-star-russia-1471979430
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 09, 2016, 07:10:17 PM
Jay, you don't give up on your wishful thinking, do you?

The Woman Who Revived Russia’s Markets

Many investors credit central-bank chief Elvira Nabiullina for Russia’s resurgence
August 23, 2016

http://www.wsj.com/articles/emerging-markets-rising-star-russia-1471979430
Russia runs out of money after oil crash and sanctions
September 8 2016, 12:01am,
The Times
Russia is burning through its national reserves at an unprecedented rate, amid a deep economic crisis that has plunged millions of people into poverty and wiped out the advances in living standards achieved during President Putin’s long rule.

Hit by western sanctions and low global prices for oil — the bulwark of its economy — the country’s reserve fund, designed to cover shortfalls in the national budget, has shrunk by two thirds since 2014, falling from Ł67 billion to barely Ł23 billion, the finance ministry said this week.

Analysts at the Higher School of Economics in Moscow predict that the…
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-runs-out-of-money-after-oil-crash-and-sanctions-qxpmwf9cq
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on September 09, 2016, 11:28:42 PM
A bit pre-emptive in the headlines. 

The cash is clearly running out but it has not, as yet, run out.  Nearly 30 billion left is not that bad really considering the time and projects going on.

And there are some other piles of cash they can yet rob.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 15, 2016, 01:04:19 AM
More information is coming to light all the time !


Mafia links of Putin’s party laid bare


President Putin’s United Russia party represents the interests of organised crime, from the lowest rungs of local government to the highest echelons of power, according to an opposition report.

The 65-page report, entitled The Party of Criminal Russia, was written by Ilya Yashin, a former ally of Boris Nemtsov, the Kremlin critic shot dead near Red Square last year. Mr Yashin said that he hoped his report would result in United Russia losing votes in parliamentary elections next month.

Although compiled from open sources, the report provides one of the most comprehensive pictures of criminality within the party since its…

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mafia-links-of-putin-s-party-laid-bare-m9q359svd
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 16, 2016, 05:28:32 PM
Some in Russia can see reality-- and are not afraid to speak out . It needs about another 10 million to start talking!



Every citizen of Russia will incur responsibility for Crimea

Russian opposition journalist Alexander Sotnik believes that every citizen of Russia will have to be responsible for the annexation of Crimea and the war in Donbass.

“Crimea is annexed by Russia, and the Kremlin commits one crime after another in Donbass. No matter how this war is called “hybrid” or else, this is a war, and the death is not “hybrid”. Wars always lead into grief, casualties, deprivation… And Russia will incur responsibility for those suffering, too, either with Putin alive in the Hague or dead, it doesn’t matter. The responsibility will be incurred by everyone, by every citizen of Russia, including me,” he said in an interview with the Detector Media publishing.

The journalist believes that “terrible times will wait for” Russians in the future. “Everything has its cost in this life. The Putin’s regime has committed so many crimes both in Russia and outside the country that the payback would be terrible. Perhaps, the disintegration of Russia will be the price. As for me, I certainly hate this idea, but each new day of Vladimir Putin’s and his gang’s power leaves less chance of saving my country within the old geopolitical boundaries,” said Sotnik.

http://en.sobytiya.info/journalist-every-citizen-of-russia-will-incur-responsibility-for-crimea.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 16, 2016, 06:10:06 PM
Maybe the world is now awakening to menace Russia is to the rest of the world under Putin and his corrupt regime that has created a pariah state.
Pariahs are not asked to cooperate on challenges to the global commons. They shouldn’t get to host events like the World Cup, as Russia is scheduled to do in 2018. They should not be diplomatic partners in U.S. policy to disarm other pariahs like Iran. No, pariahs should be quarantined. With Russia, it’s the very least the U.S. and its allies can do to save the international system from a country that seeks to destroy it.


Treat Russia Like the International Poison It Is



Michael McFaul, who served as President Barack Obama’s ambassador to Russia and was the architect of the first-term policy to “reset” relations with Russia, told me the U.S. had hoped to “moderate” Russia’s negative behavior “by making them stakeholders in these international institutions.” McFaul said he believed that in the 1990s and 2000s that this was the right policy. But he said it’s time for a new approach: “Russia under Putin today is not interested in being a stakeholder or responsible member in many of these international institutions. Rather, they seek to weaken them or in the case of NATO to undermine them completely.”

Evelyn Farkas, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense under Obama who focused on Russia and Eurasia, told me this week that part of the problem is that the U.S. and its Western allies have not punished Russia for its violation of international norms and rules. “When we don’t enforce the rules of the international community, then the international community and the institutions will fail to make responsible actors out of countries like Russia,” she said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-13/treat-russia-like-the-international-poison-it-is
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 10, 2016, 11:25:31 PM
 Now that the US Presidential election has been decided  perhaps it is time to consider what the impact will be on the FSU   -- a topic that is related to the forum !!

Despite my earlier misgivings about Trump it seems that somewhere along the way he has changed direction on a few topics -perhaps he has actually listened to advice? Certainly the Republicans in general have been in favour of doing more to assist Ukraine -- maybe now we will see some action.

The Kremlin panic! Trump: strengthen sanctions against Russia, and  isolate as  North Korea

"we will expand the sanctions against Russia and Russian oil companies, will strengthen the impact on the banking sector and isolate it as North Korea, "- said Trump

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/svit/v-kremle-panyka-tramp-usylym-sanktsyy-protyv-rf-y-yzolyruem-kak-severnuyu-koreyu/

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 10, 2016, 11:59:44 PM

Story about the process where some earlier comments and ideas of Trump were "realigned" !

Trump has personally promised to be a friend for Ukraine

According to him, the former Permanent Representative of Ukraine to the UN Yuriy Sergeyev Trump personally promised to be a friend for Ukraine. "Now Trump statements in which he allegedly was going to recognize the Crimea" Russian. " After them, we went directly to the Republican. Our people had a meeting with him, talked about the Ukraine, brought him national souvenirs. It was four months before the election. At a meeting with our delegation Republican said he is a friend of Ukraine. Our diplomat Sergeyev Trump himself said he would be for Ukraine ", - stressed Malomuzh.

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/tramp-lychno-poobeshhal-byt-drugom-dlya-ukrayny/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 11, 2016, 02:03:21 PM
Despite my earlier misgivings about Trump it seems that somewhere along the way he has changed direction on a few topics -perhaps he has actually listened to advice? Certainly the Republicans in general have been in favour of doing more to assist Ukraine -- maybe now we will see some action.


Trump has been receiving intelligence briefings for a few months now. He has faith in our intelligence community to believe Russia's recent actions are harmful to our nation. He knows now Putin is not on board with his "Make America Great Again" program.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 11, 2016, 06:16:37 PM
Trump has been receiving intelligence briefings for a few months now. He has faith in our intelligence community to believe Russia's recent actions are harmful to our nation. He knows now Putin is not on board with his "Make America Great Again" program.

I'm sure Trump is in contact with and has respect for the intelligence community.  But JayH is providing links from Ukrainian media sources which are reliably unreliable.

Instead of the US vs them silliness, which you are translating as "He knows now Putin is not on board", the question that should seriously be asked is how and where can Russia and US cooperate more and how can they learn to be less hostile towards each other.  Putin is not on board or off board; he and the Russian people are waiting to see if he has a partner to work with rather than just another who demonizes Russia no matter what, typically for domestic gains and to the great disservice of global peace and stability at large.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 11, 2016, 06:41:21 PM
I'm sure Trump is in contact with and has respect for the intelligence community.  But JayH is providing links from Ukrainian media sources which are reliably unreliable.


Oh-- so quoting Trump is unreliable?
In the past Trump's off the cuff comments have rambled and often seemed contradictory  -- but  -- a clearer theme has emerged.
Fact is  right now  if he takes all the advice he will be given ,  Ukraine will get the help it needs.Trump will not be a limp wristed President.Obama was lame on issues where US could be accused of being an aggressor--  that will not worry Trump.
The door is open for Russia to rejoin  the world and be a good world citizen -- it is simple enough -- get out of Ukraine.Fact is it does not suit Putin's agenda to be at peace with the world.

Read the words-- Trump's words !


Now I'm all for Ukraine - Trump

 "US presidential candidate from the Republican Party, Donald Trump explained his attitude to the situation with Ukraine.

The new head of the United States billionaire Donald Trump unveiled a number of statements on the situation in Ukraine. Shared his thoughts in an interview with billionaire of The the New York the Times , reports "STS-1492.news".

"When he, Putin, came and seized the Crimea, he ripped the heart and soul, because there was all the money I was surprised I've heard that most of the revenue comes just from this region This -... The territory of the wealth, which means that the rest of Ukraine will be defeated, and that is how you can predict will happen very soon ... Look what they are doing in Ukraine, and you will realize that it is - a matter of time ", - said Trump.

Trump calls on European countries to continue support for Ukraine: "I do not like what is happening in Ukraine, but Europe, this problem affects more than us and it should take a leading role I have a feeling that people from different parts of Europe need to... together to help Ukraine. I think that Ukraine receives a decent respect from other parts of Europe. But Ukraine deserves this respect, it is a long time proves it. So, of Germany it is or about other countries, I do not think you get support that need. "

"We are fighting for Ukraine, but no one is fighting for Ukraine, but Ukraine itself, of course, and I say that it does not seem fair, and it does not seem logical," - concluded his speech by Trump."
http://ru.1492news.com/news/37074_1478761690
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 11, 2016, 06:52:11 PM
I'm sure Trump is in contact with and has respect for the intelligence community.  But JayH is providing links from Ukrainian media sources which are reliably unreliable.


I don't read any Ukrainian news. I even tell my Ukrainian wife those news sources are bias and unreliable. I read other news. Trump's friend, Newt Gingrich, said the US would sell weapons to Ukraine if Trump becomes president. Trump, in a past interview, said Russia isn't going to go into Ukraine anymore if he's elected president. Congress has already approved lethal weapon sales to Ukraine but Obama failed to act. All Trump has to do is act since funds are approved. Trump also has an ad that says he will be tough on the bad guys and lumps Putin and ISIS together.

Instead of the US vs them silliness, which you are translating as "He knows now Putin is not on board", the question that should seriously be asked is how and where can Russia and US cooperate more and how can they learn to be less hostile towards each other.  Putin is not on board or off board; he and the Russian people are waiting to see if he has a partner to work with rather than just another who demonizes Russia no matter what, typically for domestic gains and to the great disservice of global peace and stability at large.

I don't know if you've been sleeping the past few years but my eyes were open. Putin invaded a nation to take their land. He continues to destabilize Ukraine so 40 million people can't improve their quality of life. He's bombing civilians to keep a dictator in Syria in power. Putin uses ceasefires over and over in Ukraine and Syria to get us to pause so he can advance. He's deceived us numerous times and you think we can work with him towards peace and global stability? How many times does a person have to lie to you before you understand they can't be trusted? Face it. Some people only cooperate when they stare down the barrel of a gun. Putin uses this method on those he wants to bully but he too can be bullied. Trump may try to act nice with Russia to give them a chance to be part of a peace loving international community but after the first betrayal, I don't think Trump will be the pussy Obama was.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 11, 2016, 06:56:28 PM
To highlight the ignorance of Bounder comment  above-

Some quotes from Trump manifesto in relation to Ukraine and Russia

The text of the election platform of the party referred to Russia mainly in a negative way, in the context of the various threats facing the United States. The word "Russia" occurs ten times.
"Despite its promises, Russia and China consider kiberoperatsiyi as part of its military doctrine even in peacetime. In response, we have to take measures in the diplomatic, financial and legal areas not involved in issuing visas of persons to freeze their assets, to start an investigation against them "- the document says.

The section on human rights, said that the welfare of the United States in particular will depend on the development of an independent judiciary and civil society in countries where the government has resorted to repression, such as China, Russia and many countries in the Middle East and Africa. "
"Together with allies support the preservation and, if necessary, strengthening of sanctions against Russia for as long as the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine will not be fully restored," - the document says.

"The hostility of Russia we will respond with the same determination that led to the collapse of the Soviet Union. We do not accept changing of power in Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Georgia or elsewhere, and will do all possible measures constitution to bring to justice all the perpetrators of aggression and assassinations ", - emphasized in the text of the platform.

The program also calls for Republicans to keep sanctions on Russia and Ukraine to continue to provide assistance.
"We also support adequate assistance to the armed forces of Ukraine and better coordination with NATO (on) defense planning" - the document says.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 11, 2016, 09:09:16 PM
Oh-- so quoting Trump is unreliable?
In the past Trump's off the cuff comments have rambled and often seemed contradictory  -- but  -- a clearer theme has emerged.
Fact is  right now  if he takes all the advice he will be given ,  Ukraine will get the help it needs.Trump will not be a limp wristed President.Obama was lame on issues where US could be accused of being an aggressor--  that will not worry Trump.
The door is open for Russia to rejoin  the world and be a good world citizen -- it is simple enough -- get out of Ukraine.Fact is it does not suit Putin's agenda to be at peace with the world.

Read the words-- Trump's words !


Now I'm all for Ukraine - Trump

 "US presidential candidate from the Republican Party, Donald Trump explained his attitude to the situation with Ukraine.

The new head of the United States billionaire Donald Trump unveiled a number of statements on the situation in Ukraine. Shared his thoughts in an interview with billionaire of The the New York the Times , reports "STS-1492.news".

"When he, Putin, came and seized the Crimea, he ripped the heart and soul, because there was all the money I was surprised I've heard that most of the revenue comes just from this region This -... The territory of the wealth, which means that the rest of Ukraine will be defeated, and that is how you can predict will happen very soon ... Look what they are doing in Ukraine, and you will realize that it is - a matter of time ", - said Trump.

Trump calls on European countries to continue support for Ukraine: "I do not like what is happening in Ukraine, but Europe, this problem affects more than us and it should take a leading role I have a feeling that people from different parts of Europe need to... together to help Ukraine. I think that Ukraine receives a decent respect from other parts of Europe. But Ukraine deserves this respect, it is a long time proves it. So, of Germany it is or about other countries, I do not think you get support that need. "

"We are fighting for Ukraine, but no one is fighting for Ukraine, but Ukraine itself, of course, and I say that it does not seem fair, and it does not seem logical," - concluded his speech by Trump."
http://ru.1492news.com/news/37074_1478761690

Jay, with all due respect, do you have any better sources?  STS-1492news quoting "The the New York the Times"??? Huh?  I haven't looked to see if the NYT is actually reporting this, I'm putting in as much effort as you.  To the reported speech itself, it reminds me of reporting in Indian and other newspapers: "So, of Germany it is or about other countries, I do not think you get support that need."  What does it even mean? 

Look, Jay, I stand to be corrected and if Trump has come out pro-Ukraine, then so be it.  I don't think he's such a fool as to join the wrong side though.  If he is backing Ukraine, you DO understand that he is using them as a pawn, right?  Because, what else is Ukraine other than a pawn?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 11, 2016, 09:31:02 PM
  Because, what else is Ukraine other than a pawn?

Your condacending arrogance is disgusting.

Ukraine is a country -- an independent country  of 45 million people  who want to be free of Russia and all the negatives that go with it.
Ukrainian lives have been sacrificed in the quest for freedom and a chance to live. Ideas that the free world has promoted and sort to protect.
Right now Ukraine is the frontline for the rest of the world against Russian aggression and hostility-- AND POTENTIAL EXPANSION through what was much of the SOVIET UNION.

I am not going to revisit every issue that has become clear enough for every cretin that comes along with a head full of ignorance  and inane ideas. Go read the track on the forum of abundant threads where time after time Russian bs and propaganda has been eventually clearly discredited-- in the process you might learn something.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 11, 2016, 09:33:13 PM
I don't read any Ukrainian news. I even tell my Ukrainian wife those news sources are bias and unreliable. I read other news. Trump's friend, Newt Gingrich, said the US would sell weapons to Ukraine if Trump becomes president. Trump, in a past interview, said Russia isn't going to go into Ukraine anymore if he's elected president. Congress has already approved lethal weapon sales to Ukraine but Obama failed to act. All Trump has to do is act since funds are approved. Trump also has an ad that says he will be tough on the bad guys and lumps Putin and ISIS together.

Quote
I don't if you've been sleeping the past few years but my eyes were open.

No, definitely not sleeping, but we may have different points of view.

Quote
Putin invaded a nation to take their land. He continues to destabilize Ukraine so 40 million people can't improve their quality of life.
He did take Crimea back home, that's true.  As to the rest, I would say the jury is out on that.  Probably he emboldened goons in Eastern Ukraine, but I wouldn't go any further in assessing that, although I know many of you do and will do more now.....

Quote
He's bombing civilians to keep a dictator in Syria in power.
Here is some patent nonsense.  I don't know that anyone says Assad is a good guy.  I won't because he's not.  Most people would also agree that Ghaddafi and Saddam were bad guys.  Well, you fellows knocked out Ghaddafi and Saddam and what do we now have in Libya and Iraq?  Chaos.  Most people prefer anything to utter chaos.  Russia is right, and morally right I might add, to uphold the ONLY recognized government in Syria.  If Assad's regime is destabilized to the point of crumbling, it will be another Libya/Iraq, with the added bonus of spilling over into Israel and Lebanon.  Please spare me Hillary's pleas to bring down the dictator.  Let's get serious!
Quote
He's deceived us numerous times and you think we can work with him towards peace and global stability?

You, as in U.S.A., has deceived nonstop since forever, including the Russians.  For fucks sake, just see if there's an olive branch to be grasped.  It's all lies on all sides.  How does peace begin????

Quote
How many times does a person have to lie to you before you understand they can't be trusted? Face it.

I like a lot of the stuff you post in here Billy and I would prefer not to make it personal.  I am not stupid and neither are you.  And we are both lied to nonstop thousands of times per day.  And eventually we start believing a few.  We are all guilty on that front if we are human.  We do have different opinions, however, on this particular issue, and I am prepared to respect yours and even learn from it.

To be honest, I think Ukraine has had a good go at it, being a country that is.  I mean, it has been given 25 years and look where they are.  A deeply corrupted entity that is not in the West and now is not in the East either.  Good luck to it! 

To be perfectly honest, for Ukrainians in Ukraine today, the sooner they quit fighting with Russia, the sooner life will get better.  EU dreams are way way off, if ever, in my opinion. 

As long as the words NATO are whispered on Russia's doorstep, life is going to be hell for Ukrainians, so go talk to your government about that if you really care for Ukraine and it's people.

Just my two cents and I don't want wars with any of you.  There's plenty enough of those here and everywhere.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 11, 2016, 09:42:29 PM
Your condacending arrogance is disgusting.

Ukraine is a country -- an independent country  of 45 million people  who want to be free of Russia and all the negatives that go with it.
Ukrainian lives have been sacrificed in the quest for freedom and a chance to live. Ideas that the free world has promoted and sort to protect.
Right now Ukraine is the frontline for the rest of the world against Russian aggression and hostility-- AND POTENTIAL EXPANSION through what was much of the SOVIET UNION.

I am not going to revisit every issue that has become clear enough for every cretin that comes along with a head full of ignorance  and inane ideas. Go read the track on the forum of abundant threads where time after time Russian bs and propaganda has been eventually clearly discredited-- in the process you might learn something.

Sorry, no condescending arrogance.  Ukraine is one of the frontline's in the United States' never-ending warfare needed to keep the military industrial complex in business.  The US is always going after Russia, and Russia has no love for yankees either.  Ukraine IS a Pawn.  The US and Russia both see Ukraine as a Pawn and so does the EU.  Think of a chessboard.  My comment was not meant to be condescending.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 11, 2016, 11:12:46 PM
He did take Crimea back home, that's true.


At the moment Putin took Crimea, it was legally Ukraine's

Probably he emboldened goons in Eastern Ukraine, but I wouldn't go any further in assessing that, although I know many of you do and will do more now.....


Putin denied he had troops in Crimea until after he took it. He has troops in Eastern Ukraine too.

Russia is right, and morally right I might add, to uphold the ONLY recognized government in Syria.


Russia is morally right to support the government in Syria while trying to topple the current government in Ukraine? Assad isn't well liked in Syria and was about to be toppled before Russia came to the rescue. Syrian citizens have the right not to recognize their government as legit.

To be honest, I think Ukraine has had a good go at it, being a country that is.  I mean, it has been given 25 years and look where they are.


Poland and Ukraine are similar sized in similar locations with similar populations. In 25 years Poland is doing well aligning with Europe and the average citizen there makes more than the average Russian in Russia. Ukraine remained under Russia's foot and make 3 times less while under their influence. Yes, look at where they are at and who kept them there. Park Canada next to Russia for 25 years and Ukraine next to America. Do you really believe Ukraine would be in the same situation they are in now and Canada prosperous and free? Don't blame the corrupt leadership of Ukraine on the people. Blame it on the Russian guy pulling the puppet strings.

the sooner they quit fighting with Russia, the sooner life will get better


Since the collapse of the Soviet Union they haven't fought Russia, remained a cooperative puppet and life never improved. So Ukraine looked elsewhere and Russia has brought the fight to them like an abusive man who's woman just left him and he wants his ring and gifts(Crimea) back. Ukrainian people wanted change. Wouldn't you if you had their standard of living?


As long as the words NATO are whispered on Russia's doorstep, life is going to be hell for Ukrainians


So it's NATO's fault for little guys around the world getting beat up when seeking security and improving prosperity for their nations? Most nations around the world don't seek Russia's troops to be stationed in their nation. It didn't work out well for Ukraine. When people seek a better life, their top choices don't include Russia. When refugees flee from war, they don't run to Russia to build a new life and better life for their kids. Most people in the world know which countries are people friendly.

Russia should compete with America in a different way to gain respect from their neighbors. Russia should do what America does or better for its neighbors and partners but they chose to use guns to keep their them from moving on to bigger and better things.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 12, 2016, 09:14:07 AM
This is all so silly.  Russia was being offered partnership in the various economic AND military circles until five years ago.  There were books written about it.  Putin's first term was a congenial effort by all international parties.  But the idea that Russia was one of many did not sit well with the ruling kleptocracy.  The decsisions that Russia (insert Putin) has made leading up to the Ukrainian conflict highlight the disparate paths of Russia and Europe.   

Russia is now the odd man out because of its actions.  If you have a bully in the neighborhood, no one wants to play with him.  Similarly, Russia has lost many of its lucrative relationships because of its behavior.  And Europe and the US are working very hard to marginalize Russia's oil sales because Europe feels that the spigot can be turned off as a means of political pressure. 

No, Russia has been a bully and bullies are not tolerated forever.  Eventually there is push back. 

One of the things Russia will find about Trump, is that if Russian planes play fly overs and fake assaults on US territory and vessels is that they will be shot out of the sky. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on November 12, 2016, 01:37:45 PM
Some in Russia can see reality-- and are not afraid to speak out . It needs about another 10 million to start talking!

It will need a lot more than 10 million ..more like 75 million plus - ..

I see no sign of even a noisy minority of Russians realising their leadership has misled them.....


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on November 12, 2016, 04:26:48 PM

“One of the things Russia will find about Trump, is that if Russian planes play fly overs and fake assaults on US territory and vessels is that they will be shot out of the sky.  “

Jone,
noooooo, US banks and oil/gas companies will force Trump to drop sanctions on Russia, Russia will stop flyovers and other provocations, Putin will then tell Russian people, “see being tough guy works!”  Next a secret protocol will be made to divide up Ukraine, IMF will stop supporting Ukraine, Russian military openly intervenes in Novo Russiya, shattering Ukraine's military which leads to a political/social collapse in Kyiv, Putin will be praised by Trump for ending the war and restoring order.  Ivanka Trump will marry one of the sons of a leading Russian oligarch....

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on November 12, 2016, 05:15:43 PM
“One of the things Russia will find about Trump, is that if Russian planes play fly overs and fake assaults on US territory and vessels is that they will be shot out of the sky.  “

Jone,
noooooo, US banks and oil/gas companies will force Trump to drop sanctions on Russia, Russia will stop flyovers and other provocations, Putin will then tell Russian people, “see being tough guy works!”  Next a secret protocol will be made to divide up Ukraine, IMF will stop supporting Ukraine, Russian military openly intervenes in Novo Russiya, shattering Ukraine's military which leads to a political/social collapse in Kyiv, Putin will be praised by Trump for ending the war and restoring order.  Ivanka Trump will marry one of the sons of a leading Russian oligarch....


WTF are you smoking today?    :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on November 12, 2016, 06:08:20 PM
I wish... :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 12, 2016, 06:51:50 PM
Calmissile, this is a week for fun.  He's just having a little fun at my expense.  LOL.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 13, 2016, 02:15:36 AM
Trump's friend, Newt Gingrich, said the US would sell weapons to Ukraine if Trump becomes president.
[

 That should have read [/size][/font][/size]lethal weapons[size=78%][/size][size=78%]. The US has already sold/ given radar systems and  Hummers as well as western  (Nato) style training. obammy has refused to allow any lethal weapons to come  from the US.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 13, 2016, 09:58:35 PM
At the moment Putin took Crimea, it was legally Ukraine's

Putin denied he had troops in Crimea until after he took it. He has troops in Eastern Ukraine too.

Russia is morally right to support the government in Syria while trying to topple the current government in Ukraine? Assad isn't well liked in Syria and was about to be toppled before Russia came to the rescue. Syrian citizens have the right not to recognize their government as legit.

Yes, Russia is morally right to put an end to a war that has cost so many lives and has lead to massive refugee outflow, on a scale not seen for a long while.  I don't know if you've been to Syria or anywhere close, so I don't know on what grounds you say he is "not well-liked".  While the small minority of politically-motivated folks got tired of Assad's oppression and decided to stand up against it, most people were just going about their lives (see current American politics).  Not long after, Syria was awash in jihadist extremists created by your country, and you can kiss any idea of "freedom" and "democracy" as already long long gone.  It was never there to begin with since not all the world understands or appreciates the value of these Western concepts and I would include Syria here.  Now, the only option is to bring peace to Syria and let them get on with their future with a recognized, stable government, or keep making the same mistake all over again ala Iraq and Libya.  Without Assad there is going to be chaos at the present time.  I would be happy to see a different outcome and so would Russia.  That is good for Syrians.  Sorry, but that's how it is.

As to toppling the government in Ukraine, you are confusing me.  The Maidan protesters ran the democratically elected government out of town with American backing.  Do you think Russia gets excited when the Americans practice regime change on their doorstep?  They sure do!

Poland and Ukraine are similar sized in similar locations with similar populations. In 25 years Poland is doing well aligning with Europe and the average citizen there makes more than the average Russian in Russia. Ukraine remained under Russia's foot and make 3 times less while under their influence. Yes, look at where they are at and who kept them there. Park Canada next to Russia for 25 years and Ukraine next to America. Do you really believe Ukraine would be in the same situation they are in now and Canada prosperous and free? Don't blame the corrupt leadership of Ukraine on the people. Blame it on the Russian guy pulling the puppet strings.

In my view, Ukrainians have the government they deserve.  And blaming your own government on an outside force is the very definition of dependency.  The Ukrainians haven't been able to do anything for themselves.  They don't even have the same level of prosperity or stability as Belarus or Russia.  For me that proves the point.  The Ukrainians have shown they are incapable of running a country.  The Poles are a different breed altogether, it's not apples and apples.

Without going into it, an interesting historical fact is that Poles have always been Westward looking, whereas the Ukrainians have always been Eastward looking.  Now Ukraine tried to move west and therein lies their problem.  When they get around to accepting their place in this world it is going to go better for them.  Ukraine is simply confused.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union they haven't fought Russia, remained a cooperative puppet and life never improved. So Ukraine looked elsewhere and Russia has brought the fight to them like an abusive man who's woman just left him and he wants his ring and gifts(Crimea) back. Ukrainian people wanted change. Wouldn't you if you had their standard of living?

No, Ukraine never bothered to accept reality and get on with life.  Why is Ukraine behind Russia and Belarus?  Because of Ukraine, they have no one to blame but themselves.  Russia got involved when the Americans decided they would meddle in Ukraine.  It's as simple as that.  And taking Crimea back was meant as a message to the US. 

So it's NATO's fault for little guys around the world getting beat up when seeking security and improving prosperity for their nations? Most nations around the world don't seek Russia's troops to be stationed in their nation. It didn't work out well for Ukraine. When people seek a better life, their top choices don't include Russia. When refugees flee from war, they don't run to Russia to build a new life and better life for their kids. Most people in the world know which countries are people friendly.

NATO has only ill intentions for Russia.  Ukraine could get security and increase prosperity, by getting on with reality. 

Actually, there are lots of refugees in Russia from Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, North Korea, and elsewhere.  Yes, Russia provides a better life for those people, including their kids. 

I honestly don't know what you mean by "people friendly".  Every country is made up of people so how any one could exist without being "people friendly", I seriously do not know.  Russia is not a gulag, wasteland, or whatever else you may think.  It is a normal country, where people live and get wealthier or poorer, happier or sadder, etc etc.  They even still enjoy the right to not get screamed at as "Murderer!" for wearing a fur coat.  Everyone in this planet is just trying to get by and make the best of life.  Russia is no different and it is easy for me to recognize how you come to this conversation with an idea of American superiority and assuredness that your ideas are right and are universally applicable.  Look how your "democracy" is working now.  Fix that and then talk about democracy and freedom in other countries that aren't asking for your advice.

Russia should compete with America in a different way to gain respect from their neighbors. Russia should do what America does or better for its neighbors and partners but they chose to use guns to keep their them from moving on to bigger and better things.

America should compete with Russia in a different way to gain Russia's confidence.  That would start at a minimum by ceasing to meddle on Russia's doorstep.  By the way, you guys have far more guns out and about in the world than Russia and you've done plenty to stop countries from moving on to bigger and better things.
[/quote]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Hammer2722 on November 13, 2016, 10:23:01 PM
Bounder, you may want to educate yourself about Belarus. Their economy is much worse than Ukraine. Stability? I guess you can say that when the country is run by a dictator who arrests anyone who dares to run against him for president, LOL
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 13, 2016, 10:39:57 PM
Bounder should educate himself on many matters of state that he knows little about. He's just reciting the Kremlin's news sites.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 13, 2016, 11:00:30 PM
Yes, Russia is morally right to put an end to a war that has cost so many lives and has lead to massive refugee outflow, on a scale not seen for a long while.  I don't know if you've been to Syria or anywhere close, so I don't know on what grounds you say he is "not well-liked".  While the small minority of politically-motivated folks got tired of Assad's oppression and decided to stand up against it, most people were just going about their lives (see current American politics).


With over 400,000 dead and 12 million Syrians displaced from their homes, it's safe to assume Assad isn't well liked. If he cared about his country, he would've stepped down to save lives when things started to get violent. Assad and his father ruled Syria for 45 years. People wanted something different. Russia supporting Assad is prolonging the misery of the Syrian people. We can be sure Assad mortgaged Syria's future to pay back Russia for their support so the Assad family may run the country for decades to come.

As to toppling the government in Ukraine, you are confusing me.  The Maidan protesters ran the democratically elected government out of town with American backing.  Do you think Russia gets excited when the Americans practice regime change on their doorstep?  They sure do!


What kind of news have you been watching to get your facts? The democratically elected government didn't get ran out of town, only the Ukrainian president did. It was proven he was very corrupt so the people made a wise decision. America didn't get involved with regime change there. As a matter of fact, America accepted the democratically elected and corrupt government in the Rada(parliament) and Vice Prez Biden went over there and gave a speech telling them they need to clean up their corruption if they want real change.


I honestly don't know what you mean by "people friendly".  Every country is made up of people so how any one could exist without being "people friendly", I seriously do not know.  Russia is not a gulag, wasteland, or whatever else you may think.  It is a normal country, where people live and get wealthier or poorer, happier or sadder, etc etc.  They even still enjoy the right to not get screamed at as "Murderer!" for wearing a fur coat.  Everyone in this planet is just trying to get by and make the best of life.  Russia is no different and it is easy for me to recognize how you come to this conversation with an idea of American superiority and assuredness that your ideas are right and are universally applicable.  Look how your "democracy" is working now.  Fix that and then talk about democracy and freedom in other countries that aren't asking for your advice.

America should compete with Russia in a different way to gain Russia's confidence.  That would start at a minimum by ceasing to meddle on Russia's doorstep.  By the way, you guys have far more guns out and about in the world than Russia and you've done plenty to stop countries from moving on to bigger and better things.


If you get a chance to run Canada, you can align yourselves with Russia. Fortunately for now Canada's got people running the government that see a big difference between America and Russia and wisely chose America to partner with like most nations have done. It seems you want to blame Ukraine for all it's woes but Ukraine would love to trade places with Canada with them being next to America and you being next to Russia. I don't think you can control your own destiny living next to Russia.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 13, 2016, 11:31:22 PM
Bounder should educate himself on many matters of state that he knows little about. He's just reciting the Kremlin's news sites.

We're awash in propaganda.  Other's just recite Washington's lines, also known as the Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, NBC, and CBS.  And yes, I have noticed how those respectable news organizations behave as of late.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 13, 2016, 11:45:34 PM
With over 400,000 dead and 12 million Syrians displaced from their homes, it's safe to assume Assad isn't well liked. If he cared about his country, he would've stepped down to save lives when things started to get violent. Assad and his father ruled Syria for 45 years. People wanted something different. Russia supporting Assad is prolonging the misery of the Syrian people. We can be sure Assad mortgaged Syria's future to pay back Russia for their support so the Assad family may run the country for decades to come.

Come on, Billy, the mass dead and displace have come over this whole long sordid spell, most of it which has been during full out conflict with jihadists, I mean freedom fighters.  I know a little about Syrian history myself and even more.  The country is a tragedy now whereas only a few short years ago it was stable and prosperous.  What changed?  The Arab Spring.  Where is the Arab Spring now?  Dictatorship and Islamism.  In Syria it is civil war.  Either Assad stays for the time being or it is another Libya or Iraq.  Russia's got this one right.  If you disagree, I dare you to go be the new democratic head of state in democratically free Syria.  People want peace,  not chaos.  America is wrong. Period.

The good news is that your new president understands that the real enemy is the terrorists.  Maybe he'll change his mind when he reads Washington's rationale for creating ISIS and Al Qaeda. And that will be telling

What kind of news have you been watching to get your facts? The democratically elected government didn't get ran out of town, only the Ukrainian president did. It was proven he was very corrupt so the people made a wise decision. America didn't get involved with regime change there. As a matter of fact, America accepted the democratically elected and corrupt government in the Rada(parliament) and Vice Prez Biden went over there and gave a speech telling them they need to clean up their corruption if they want real change.


If you get a chance to run Canada, you can align yourselves with Russia. Fortunately for now Canada's got people running the government that see a big difference between America and Russia and wisely chose America to partner with like most nations have done. It seems you want to blame Ukraine for all it's woes but Ukraine would love to trade places with Canada with them being next to America and you being next to Russia. I don't think you can control your own destiny living next to Russia.

Sorry, my mistake, only the democratically elected President got run out of town.  Mea Culpa.  It was proven he was very corrupt?  If that is the measure why is he the only Ukrainian leader that has been run out of town?  They are all dirty, slimy, and corrupt.  And they are picked by Ukrainians!  They get what they deserve.  Instead of going to war with their own government to make things better, they go to war with Russian-Ukrainians instead.  There, that's going to make it better!  It's just the same old story for Ukraine.  This never was a serious country.

Don't worry, I'm not planning on running Canada.  Please let me know if you have plans for running the US.  Everything we are saying here is all nonsense and doesn't matter a lick  :)  You are making my point though.  Canada is geographically fixed and so is Ukraine.  Canada has found a way to make it work with a belligerent, war-mongering neighbour.  Ukraine could too if only they had half the brains to figure it out.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 13, 2016, 11:54:25 PM
Its  been a couple of hundred years since America was belligerent and war-mongering with our neighbor to the North.  Whereas Russia plays hard ball every chance it gets.  Syria is Russia's entre into the Middle East.  Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 13, 2016, 11:54:56 PM
We're awash in propaganda.  Other's just recite Washington's lines, also known as the Washington Post, New York Times, CNN, NBC, and CBS.  And yes, I have noticed how those respectable news organizations behave as of late.


If you only listen to one side that's what you recite as the Holy Gospel. If you actually have spent years there and see what's actually going on you'd know the facts.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 14, 2016, 12:00:34 AM
America is wrong.


Obama was wrong on Syria. Not every American agreed on his half ass'd attempt at ending the war which ended up prolonging it and allowing terrorist groups to grow like none other in history and created one of the biggest if not the biggest refugee situation in history.

If that is the measure why is he the only Ukrainian leader that has been run out of town?  They are all dirty, slimy, and corrupt.  And they are picked by Ukrainians! 


Most Ukrainian politicians are corrupt and I do wonder why the people didn't run them out of town. It's one reason I don't believe America was the driving force for revolution. America does promote democracy in countries just as Russia promotes their brand of government but America didn't arm the Ukrainian people and didn't tell them who to remove and who should remain in the Ukrainian government.

It's just the same old story for Ukraine.  This never was a serious country.


The story has changed and they are getting serious. Can you tell Russia to back off from destabilizing their nation so they can proceed with a better future?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 14, 2016, 12:01:19 AM
Ahem, Mike,

You might want to revise that last post a bit.  The guy has a history with Russia.  He is no neophyte.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 14, 2016, 12:07:01 AM
Obama was wrong on Syria. Not every American agreed on his half ass'd attempt at ending the war which ended up prolonging it and allowing terrorist groups to grow like none other in history and created one of the biggest if not the biggest refugee situation in history.

Most Ukrainian politicians are corrupt and I do wonder why the people didn't run them out of town. It's one reason I don't believe America was the driving force for revolution. America does promote democracy in countries just as Russia promotes their brand of government but America didn't arm the Ukrainian people and didn't tell them who to remove and who should remain in the Ukrainian government.

The story has changed and they are getting serious. Can you tell Russia to back off from destabilizing their nation so they can proceed with a better future?

Amazing - the focus on Ukraine.  My guess is that if Putin had his little charade figured out when Poland and the Czech Republic went through their changes of government, he would have tried to destabilize them as well. 

The simple fact is that Putin needs to control Ukraine to have any chance at all of putting together his little economic group.   Ukraine, at 44 Million is the most important trading partner.  If Ukraine does wind up tying into the West, then Russia can kiss economic stability through partnerships goodbye.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 14, 2016, 12:15:36 AM
Amazing - the focus on Ukraine.  My guess is that if Putin had his little charade figured out when Poland and the Czech Republic went through their changes of government, he would have tried to destabilize them as well. 

The simple fact is that Putin needs to control Ukraine to have any chance at all of putting together his little economic group.   Ukraine, at 44 Million is the most important trading partner.  If Ukraine does wind up tying into the West, then Russia can kiss economic stability through partnerships goodbye.

That ship has sailed Jone.
All we need now is to see if Putin survives while the oil price falls below $20.
I also expect to see the Republicans  do as they urged Obama to do in Ukraine  ie send meaningful military equipment.
The potential loss of face by Russia and Putin when faced with a military defeat by Ukraine will start the process of change in Russia as we know it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 14, 2016, 12:19:03 AM
Ahem, Mike,

You might want to revise that last post a bit.  The guy has a history with Russia.  He is no neophyte.

What?  A 2 1/2 minute visit and a couple of years on RUA  with the Kremlin worshippers?

When did that become meaningful "history"?

What the guy has shown is ongoing ignorance on matters Ukraine as he preaches the Kremlin propaganda bs .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 14, 2016, 12:25:26 AM
Its  been a couple of hundred years since America was belligerent and war-mongering with our neighbor to the North.  Whereas Russia plays hard ball every chance it gets.  Syria is Russia's entre into the Middle East.  Nothing more, nothing less.

That's my point Jone.  Canada has figured out how to make it work, while the US continues it's belligerence elsewhere.  Ukraine could try to do the same, understanding it's geographic realities.  Because those won't change.

US takes it's entry points to the Middle East very seriously.  So does Russia.  It's no different.  Let's see what happens when Saudi goes up in flames....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 14, 2016, 12:28:35 AM
What?  A 2 1/2 minute visit and a couple of years on RUA  with the Kremlin worshippers?

When did that become meaningful "history"?

What the guy has shown is ongoing ignorance on matters Ukraine as he preaches the Kremlin propaganda bs .

One of the neat things about the forum is that you get to actually know some of the people.  Bounder's story is not one for me to tell.  It's his.  But I know enough of it to tell you that you don't know about it.  Rather than make assumptions that do not make any sense, why don't you ask Bounder where his knowledge base comes from.  Or, for that matter, why he has specific knowledge about the Middle East.

It just makes you look silly, Jay, when you make assumptions about people from one or two posts.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 14, 2016, 12:32:36 AM

If you only listen to one side that's what you recite as the Holy Gospel. If you actually have spent years there and see what's actually going on you'd know the facts.

I don't listen to one side, but I may provide a one-sided argument, if only to counter the onslaught of arguments on the other side.  I didn't spend years there, although I have spent some time there (not sure which there we are talking about now, but that's ok), so I'm going to have to concede that to you.

Having lived abroad and at home and having compared and been aware of my own perspective during that process, I don't, however, think being in a place is always the best way of objectively understanding it.  Being in a place is a very good way of understanding it subjectively, though.  And that has immense value, IMO.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 14, 2016, 12:35:57 AM
That's my point Jone.  Canada has figured out how to make it work, while the US continues it's belligerence elsewhere.  Ukraine could try to do the same, understanding it's geographic realities.  Because those won't change.

US takes it's entry points to the Middle East very seriously.  So does Russia.  It's no different.  Let's see what happens when Saudi goes up in flames....

The US, even with Israel, has pretty well mucked up the Middle East.  But AK Mike is right.  If Russia does not get a return from the Middle East (which they won't) then Putin's little game he has played has further depleted Russia's resources.  And when they start dipping into the Russian pensions, there will be hell to pay in Moskva.  Russia made an agreement with China whereby they are almost giving away their oil.  The Chinese are paying no more for their oil than Trump did to the US in income taxes.  Russia is in even bigger trouble if oil prices drop again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 14, 2016, 12:37:27 AM
One of the neat things about the forum is that you get to actually know some of the people.  Bounder's story is not one for me to tell.  It's his.  But I know enough of it to tell you that you don't know about it.  Rather than make assumptions that do not make any sense, why don't you ask Bounder where his knowledge base comes from.  Or, for that matter, why he has specific knowledge about the Middle East.

It just makes you look silly, Jay, when you make assumptions about people from one or two posts.

You need to read what was written -- so tell me-- he has been in Russia for more than 5 minutes?
Has he ever been in Ukraine?
My comments were obviously direct at FSU -- and not the whole glad bag of inane ideas . Perhaps you could direct your comments at some of the ignorance that gets aimed at me -- I seemed to have missed that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 14, 2016, 12:46:29 AM
One of the things that amuses me( not) on the forum is that when the thread title is  --

MORE BAD NEWS FOR RUSSIA

and topics of what is bad news for Russia are posted is that we have seen a procession of posters attempting to divert the thread into a negative discussion about Ukraine  -- sort of shows what is in the heads of those people doesn't it?

There are plenty of threads about Ukraine on the forum.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 14, 2016, 12:50:37 AM
That ship has sailed Jone.
All we need now is to see if Putin survives while the oil price falls below $20.
I also expect to see the Republicans  do as they urged Obama to do in Ukraine  ie send meaningful military equipment.
The potential loss of face by Russia and Putin when faced with a military defeat by Ukraine will start the process of change in Russia as we know it.

With all due respect to you, Jay, oil is currently trading at well above $40 a barrel and has been on an upward trend since the crash.

You spread disinformation.

The other day you told me to look at how Trump is aligning with Ukraine.  So I did.  And he isn't.  I looked at his foreign policy plank on his website and it didn't mention anything you said.

I looked at the headlines and they all say that Ukraine is now freaking out and frantically deleting twitter posts.  Why?  Because once again, Ukraine has it wrong.  They always do.

You are starting to remind me of a Ukrainian.  Spreading disinformation and not trustworthy.

Russia and Putin faced with military defeat by Ukraine?  That definitely sounds Ukrainian!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 14, 2016, 12:57:05 AM
Obama was wrong on Syria. Not every American agreed on his half ass'd attempt at ending the war which ended up prolonging it and allowing terrorist groups to grow like none other in history and created one of the biggest if not the biggest refugee situation in history.

Most Ukrainian politicians are corrupt and I do wonder why the people didn't run them out of town. It's one reason I don't believe America was the driving force for revolution. America does promote democracy in countries just as Russia promotes their brand of government but America didn't arm the Ukrainian people and didn't tell them who to remove and who should remain in the Ukrainian government.

The story has changed and they are getting serious. Can you tell Russia to back off from destabilizing their nation so they can proceed with a better future?

I think we agree on some points.  It's nice to know that.  As far as promotion of American democracy, I don't want Iraqi democracy and I don't want Libyan democracy.  In fact, it would be better if America would butt out of others affairs.  And I would say the same about Russia in that case.

The Americans responded as a responsible country when the Soviets tried to put nuclear missiles into Cuba.  Russia is responding as a responsible country as the US tries to set up NATO on its borders.

I can tell Russia anything and they won't listen to any of it. I'm just a peon in the big game, but I do honestly feel that Russia feels encroached and if the US backed off with NATO a bit, there could be a chance for dialogue.  And I, for one, would certainly welcome that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 14, 2016, 01:09:26 AM
You need to read what was written -- so tell me-- he has been in Russia for more than 5 minutes?
Has he ever been in Ukraine?
My comments were obviously direct at FSU -- and not the whole glad bag of inane ideas . Perhaps you could direct your comments at some of the ignorance that gets aimed at me -- I seemed to have missed that.

Jay - for crying out loud.  Yes, I have been in Russia for more than 5 minutes.  It was exactly 7 minutes.

And, yes, I have been to Ukraine.

I spotted you from the very beginning with your Ukrainian Nationalist signature line.  I knew we would clash.  But I don't care if you hate Russia and love Ukraine and we are the opposite.  I will continue to respect you and read your posts and if we meet, I'm sure we could be friends.  But we will have to find another way than walking over all the dead between Moscow and Kiev to meet, because those lost lives are as meaningful to me as they are to you, regardless of nationality.  While I have an opinion, I am not in the war.  And if you are, I apologize for any disrespect you may have taken.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 14, 2016, 01:10:58 AM
With all due respect to you, Jay, oil is currently trading at well above $40 a barrel and has been on an upward trend since the crash.

You spread disinformation.

The other day you told me to look at how Trump is aligning with Ukraine.  So I did.  And he isn't.  I looked at his foreign policy plank on his website and it didn't mention anything you said.

I looked at the headlines and they all say that Ukraine is now freaking out and frantically deleting twitter posts.  Why?  Because once again, Ukraine has it wrong.  They always do.

You are starting to remind me of a Ukrainian.  Spreading disinformation and not trustworthy.

Russia and Putin faced with military defeat by Ukraine?  That definitely sounds Ukrainian!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
"You spread disinformation."

On the contrary-- you are attempting to attribute things I did not say to me.

On Trump-- I provided links to stories  -- for the reader to make what that will of them.That is why I quote the source of comment-- and not regurgitate it as my own.
You complained about the language they were in-- surely such a student of language could have translated
 them ?
Below I  quote what I wrote just a few posts above--
--pretty clear my comment was not about oil price today but was supposition of where it might go and the consequences
-- further comment is about something that may and could happen.

That ship has sailed Jone.
All we need now is to see if Putin survives while the oil price falls below $20.
I also expect to see the Republicans  do as they urged Obama to do in Ukraine  ie send meaningful military equipment.
The potential loss of face by Russia and Putin when faced with a military defeat by Ukraine will start the process of change in Russia as we know it.

So-- all in all -- no disinformation there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 14, 2016, 01:11:35 AM
One of the things that amuses me( not) on the forum is that when the thread title is  --

MORE BAD NEWS FOR RUSSIA

and topics of what is bad news for Russia are posted is that we have seen a procession of posters attempting to divert the thread into a negative discussion about Ukraine  -- sort of shows what is in the heads of those people doesn't it?

There are plenty of threads about Ukraine on the forum.

It's just because all the bad news in Ukraine!  ;D

I take umbrage with the thread headline!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 14, 2016, 01:37:41 AM
Oh-- so quoting Trump is unreliable?
In the past Trump's off the cuff comments have rambled and often seemed contradictory  -- but  -- a clearer theme has emerged.
Fact is  right now  if he takes all the advice he will be given ,  Ukraine will get the help it needs.Trump will not be a limp wristed President.Obama was lame on issues where US could be accused of being an aggressor--  that will not worry Trump.
The door is open for Russia to rejoin  the world and be a good world citizen -- it is simple enough -- get out of Ukraine.Fact is it does not suit Putin's agenda to be at peace with the world.

Read the words-- Trump's words !


Now I'm all for Ukraine - Trump

 "US presidential candidate from the Republican Party, Donald Trump explained his attitude to the situation with Ukraine.

The new head of the United States billionaire Donald Trump unveiled a number of statements on the situation in Ukraine. Shared his thoughts in an interview with billionaire of The the New York the Times , reports "STS-1492.news".

"When he, Putin, came and seized the Crimea, he ripped the heart and soul, because there was all the money I was surprised I've heard that most of the revenue comes just from this region This -... The territory of the wealth, which means that the rest of Ukraine will be defeated, and that is how you can predict will happen very soon ... Look what they are doing in Ukraine, and you will realize that it is - a matter of time ", - said Trump.

Trump calls on European countries to continue support for Ukraine: "I do not like what is happening in Ukraine, but Europe, this problem affects more than us and it should take a leading role I have a feeling that people from different parts of Europe need to... together to help Ukraine. I think that Ukraine receives a decent respect from other parts of Europe. But Ukraine deserves this respect, it is a long time proves it. So, of Germany it is or about other countries, I do not think you get support that need. "

"We are fighting for Ukraine, but no one is fighting for Ukraine, but Ukraine itself, of course, and I say that it does not seem fair, and it does not seem logical," - concluded his speech by Trump."
http://ru.1492news.com/news/37074_1478761690

Quote
To highlight the ignorance of Bounder comment  above-

Some quotes from Trump manifesto in relation to Ukraine and Russia

The text of the election platform of the party referred to Russia mainly in a negative way, in the context of the various threats facing the United States. The word "Russia" occurs ten times.
"Despite its promises, Russia and China consider kiberoperatsiyi as part of its military doctrine even in peacetime. In response, we have to take measures in the diplomatic, financial and legal areas not involved in issuing visas of persons to freeze their assets, to start an investigation against them "- the document says.

The section on human rights, said that the welfare of the United States in particular will depend on the development of an independent judiciary and civil society in countries where the government has resorted to repression, such as China, Russia and many countries in the Middle East and Africa. "
"Together with allies support the preservation and, if necessary, strengthening of sanctions against Russia for as long as the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine will not be fully restored," - the document says.

"The hostility of Russia we will respond with the same determination that led to the collapse of the Soviet Union. We do not accept changing of power in Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Georgia or elsewhere, and will do all possible measures constitution to bring to justice all the perpetrators of aggression and assassinations ", - emphasized in the text of the platform.

The program also calls for Republicans to keep sanctions on Russia and Ukraine to continue to provide assistance.
"We also support adequate assistance to the armed forces of Ukraine and better coordination with NATO (on) defense planning" - the document says.
Jay, it seems to me like you a backtracking now.  You told me and others reading that those were
Trumps words.  They weren't.  They were the words of the reliably unreliable Ukrainian media.  I don't disagree that you sourced it, and no I'm not interested in going to translate Ukrainian fantasies myself.

You are acting like Ukrainians do, and it isn't pretty.  It is cringeworthy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 14, 2016, 02:12:53 AM
Jay - for crying out loud.  Yes, I have been in Russia for more than 5 minutes.  It was exactly 7 minutes.

And, yes, I have been to Ukraine.

I spotted you from the very beginning with your Ukrainian Nationalist signature line.  I knew we would clash.  But I don't care if you hate Russia and love Ukraine and we are the opposite.  I will continue to respect you and read your posts and if we meet, I'm sure we could be friends.  But we will have to find another way than walking over all the dead between Moscow and Kiev to meet, because those lost lives are as meaningful to me as they are to you, regardless of nationality.  While I have an opinion, I am not in the war.  And if you are, I apologize for any disrespect you may have taken.

I had a guy as late as yesterday here on the forum whose knowledge of me came from the Australian flag next to my name and the signature on posts ! Now he was telling me I was clueless because his mother was born in Kyiv and he had been there 10 years ago and in 2013 ! The fact that I have spent 10  -20 times or more  time in Ukraine  than him and in particular - recently seemed to escape him that I may have first hand knowledge of some things !
So easy for me to poke pins in the time on the ground. I am a strong proponent that no one has a mortgage on knowledge( of Ukraine)  or any topic -- and much can be learnt by reading.The problem is that when you start from the wrong premise  -everything that follows will be arse about.

It has been said repeatedly here-- I do not hate Russia or the Russian people  -- FULL STOP  I do hate what Putin and his Kleptocrats have done to the Russian people   and what he has done and is doing generally. Taken in the context of Ukraine -- I would be happy to see every Russian invader dead-if that is what it will take to get Russia out of Ukraine.

Respect for me ? Don't care. Respect for the brave people of Ukraine who have stood up to a bully in their quest for a decent life -- and lost many lives in that process -- that is the respect you should be showing.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 14, 2016, 02:15:59 AM
Jay, it seems to me like you a backtracking now.  You told me and others reading that those were
Trumps words.  They weren't.  They were the words of the reliably unreliable Ukrainian media.  I don't disagree that you sourced it, and no I'm not interested in going to translate Ukrainian fantasies myself.

You are acting like Ukrainians do, and it isn't pretty.  It is cringeworthy.

You keep getting this wrong-- the words I referred to were and are specific quotes of Trump from his own documents.
They are quoted somewhere in the links provided.

You keep saying the Ukrainian media is unreliable --look at the sources .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 14, 2016, 05:53:20 PM
Article  comments on the language issue-- some have raided it upthread here.

Putin, not Poroshenko, has destroyed future of Russian language in Ukraine

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko criticized by some for saying that Russia will never have the status of a state language in in his country is doing no more than ratifying what Russian President Vladimir Putin has already achieved: causing Ukrainians who have spoken Russian all their lives to drop that language and use Ukrainian.

Only a year ago, journalist Arkady Babchenko says in a Facebook post, discussions about making Russian a state language in Ukraine were “completely natural” and didn’t elicit “any particular antagonism”.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/12/babchenko-putin-not-poroshenko-has-destroyed-future-of-russian-language-in-ukraine/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 14, 2016, 06:58:47 PM
Reflecting on the thread title  -- it is guys like Bounder and papakota  that  illustrate the really BAD NEWS FOR RUSSIA.
By  seeking to rationalise and justify Putin and Russia's  actions and behaviour over these last few years only serves to prolong the agony of the Russian people-- and I mean russian speaking people everywhere -not just in Russia.
 As long as excuses are made-- and attempts made to blame others -- the reality will be blind to the people of Russia .
It is going to take a major shaking to dispel the blind faith in Putin & his Kremlin.  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 15, 2016, 08:52:21 PM
Reflecting on the thread title  -- it is guys like Bounder and papakota  that  illustrate the really BAD NEWS FOR RUSSIA.
By  seeking to rationalise and justify Putin and Russia's  actions and behaviour over these last few years only serves to prolong the agony of the Russian people-- and I mean russian speaking people everywhere -not just in Russia.
 As long as excuses are made-- and attempts made to blame others -- the reality will be blind to the people of Russia .
It is going to take a major shaking to dispel the blind faith in Putin & his Kremlin.  :wallbash:

Keep crying about it Jay.  There's two sides to the story.  And Ukraine has a long long list of excuses as to why it is so corrupt and 25 years on since it was given a chance to run its affairs it finds itself in its current state.  And when it comes to Ukraine, it seems to me that EVERYTHING IS SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT, right Jay?  Things won't get better for Ukraine as long as the country and it's defenders are unable to take responsibility for Ukraine's own shortcomings and failures.

If Canada was run by Ukrainians, as BillyB (kind of) hypothetically proposed, Canada would be a borderline failed state and it would all be the Americans fault!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 15, 2016, 09:10:28 PM
Article  comments on the language issue-- some have raided it upthread here.

Putin, not Poroshenko, has destroyed future of Russian language in Ukraine

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko criticized by some for saying that Russia will never have the status of a state language in in his country is doing no more than ratifying what Russian President Vladimir Putin has already achieved: causing Ukrainians who have spoken Russian all their lives to drop that language and use Ukrainian.

Only a year ago, journalist Arkady Babchenko says in a Facebook post, discussions about making Russian a state language in Ukraine were “completely natural” and didn’t elicit “any particular antagonism”.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/11/12/babchenko-putin-not-poroshenko-has-destroyed-future-of-russian-language-in-ukraine/

Jay, this is more silly disinformation from your Ukrainian sources.  I know it's not as reliable as the Euromaidan Press, but I'm sure you can agree that the BBC isn't exactly pro-Russian.  Look at the BBC timeline of events in Ukraine:

February 23-26, 2014:

Parliament votes to ban Russian as the second official language, causing a wave of anger in Russian-speaking regions

February 27-28, 2014:

Pro-Russian gunmen seize key buildings in the Crimean capital, Simferopol. Unidentified gunmen in combat uniforms appear outside Crimea's main airports.

The Ukraine decided to start a war with its own citizens!  What do you think would happen in Canada if Ottawa decided to ban French?  But yes, Ukraine always needs someone to blame, so who better else than Russia?

Ukrainian nationalists predictably shoot themselves in the foot and then look for someone to blame, that's how it always goes.  I would say poor Russia, but it's Ukraine that needs to be pitied here.  I don't know that Ukraine will ever get it right....  They'll just keep blaming everyone else.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 15, 2016, 09:36:04 PM
So you're aledgeing that the 6-8,000 combat ready 'little green men' that invaded Krim were really Ukrainian?  LMAO  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on November 15, 2016, 09:39:19 PM
If Canada was run by Ukrainians, as BillyB (kind of) hypothetically proposed, Canada would be a borderline failed state and it would all be the Americans fault!

Actually what I was proposing is Canada being run by Canadians and moved next to Russia and Ukraine run by Ukrainians and moved next to America and think about where each nation would be. I just wanted to give you an idea how much outside influence good and bad can affect your nation and Ukraine. I'm all about accountability but a lot of Ukraine's problems are caused by Russia. I wish I could say a lot of Ukraine's success is from Russia's influence. Russia would gain more friends if they could make stuff like that happen.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 15, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
But they don't and can't because of the oil price and further hampered by those pesky sanctions supported by most of the wold nations.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 15, 2016, 10:01:18 PM
So you're aledgeing that the 6-8,000 combat ready 'little green men' that invaded Krim were really Ukrainian?  LMAO  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I alleged nothing of the sort.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 15, 2016, 10:06:35 PM
Actually what I was proposing is Canada being run by Canadians and moved next to Russia and Ukraine run by Ukrainians and moved next to America and think about where each nation would be. I just wanted to give you an idea how much outside influence good and bad can affect your nation and Ukraine. I'm all about accountability but a lot of Ukraine's problems are caused by Russia. I wish I could say a lot of Ukraine's success is from Russia's influence. Russia would gain more friends if they could make stuff like that happen.

I know, you were proposing a slightly different hypothetical scenario.  And I take your point (we're back to geography here again), but Russia is not responsible for all Ukraine's problems.  If Poland had a border right against Russia (actually, they do with Kaliningrad), I tend to feel they would be doing much better than Ukraine is.  Ukraine just has way to many psychological issues or I don't even know what to call them.  But they can't get over themselves and just get on with reality even though I'm sure many Ukrainians would like to.  Now they made it worse by attacking their own people with language oppression.  I can't see how that is going to expedite the road to peace and prosperity.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on November 15, 2016, 10:20:28 PM
Russia is not responsible for all Ukraine's problems. 


Not solely responsible... your 'stance' is either ignorant or a stubborn refusal to see reality
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 15, 2016, 10:40:50 PM

Not solely responsible... your 'stance' is either ignorant or a stubborn refusal to see reality

No, I'm not ignorant and nor am I spending a lot of time out in Sochi to know the things you know.  But I'm smart enough to know that reality lies somewhere among all the shades of grey.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2016, 11:04:02 PM
To be honest, I think Ukraine has had a good go at it, being a country that is.  I mean, it has been given 25 years and look where they are.  A deeply corrupted entity that is not in the West and now is not in the East either.  Good luck to it! 

To be perfectly honest, for Ukrainians in Ukraine today, the sooner they quit fighting with Russia, the sooner life will get better.  EU dreams are way way off, if ever, in my opinion. 

As long as the words NATO are whispered on Russia's doorstep, life is going to be hell for Ukrainians, so go talk to your government about that if you really care for Ukraine and it's people.

Just my two cents and I don't want wars with any of you.  There's plenty enough of those here and everywhere.

Ukraine and Russia have approximately the same level of corruption.  Russia has tackled corruption with its police, Ukraine has not.  If you look at Transparency International, you will note that both countries are in the 20-29 range, meaning "highly corrupt".

As for fighting Russia, Ukraine did not invade Russia.  Ukraine did not send SBU agents to Rostov, or Bryansk, or Belgorod to create a civil war.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2016, 11:25:44 PM
As to toppling the government in Ukraine, you are confusing me.  The Maidan protesters ran the democratically elected government out of town with American backing.  Do you think Russia gets excited when the Americans practice regime change on their doorstep?  They sure do!


Maidan was started by Ukrainian oligarchs, not Americans.
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In my view, Ukrainians have the government they deserve.  And blaming your own government on an outside force is the very definition of dependency.  The Ukrainians haven't been able to do anything for themselves.  They don't even have the same level of prosperity or stability as Belarus or Russia.  For me that proves the point.  The Ukrainians have shown they are incapable of running a country.  The Poles are a different breed altogether, it's not apples and apples.


Ukraine's government has always been riddled with Russian spies. 


You likely are unaware that during the coup, all KGB records in Kyiv were moved to Moscow.  Every president and PM of Ukraine was part of the former nomenklatura.  Their files sit in Moscow, and can be used for Moscow's benefit as Moscow sees fit.  In fact, almost all the politicians in both Russia and Ukraine were part of the former nomenklatura.  In one case, a "mova mova" politician from L'vivska oblast had her KGB files leaked by Moscow during Euromaidan.  It turns out she was a komsomol member (not unusual) and informant at L'viv State University.  Her political career ended that day.

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Without going into it, an interesting historical fact is that Poles have always been Westward looking, whereas the Ukrainians have always been Eastward looking.  Now Ukraine tried to move west and therein lies their problem.  When they get around to accepting their place in this world it is going to go better for them.  Ukraine is simply confused.


Uh, no.  Was Ivan Franko "Eastern looking"?  Were Kost Levytsky or Yevhen Petrushevych "Eastern looking"?  How about Metropolit Shyptetsky?


Your statement is absurd, and is evidence of the paucity of your knowledge of Ukrainian history, political movements, intellectual, or cultural life.

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No, Ukraine never bothered to accept reality and get on with life.  Why is Ukraine behind Russia and Belarus?  Because of Ukraine, they have no one to blame but themselves.  Russia got involved when the Americans decided they would meddle in Ukraine.  It's as simple as that.


Actually, it is not that simple.  Russia has been interfering in Ukrainian political life since about 1994. 

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NATO has only ill intentions for Russia.  Ukraine could get security and increase prosperity, by getting on with reality. 

Up until Russia's invasion of Ukraine, poll after poll after poll in Ukraine had Ukrainians rejecting NATO membership.  It was never on the cards, neither wanted, nor offered.

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Actually, there are lots of refugees in Russia from Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, North Korea, and elsewhere.  Yes, Russia provides a better life for those people, including their kids. 


Yeah, they live wonderfully in Russia. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2016, 11:28:26 PM
Sorry, my mistake, only the democratically elected President got run out of town.  Mea Culpa.  It was proven he was very corrupt?  If that is the measure why is he the only Ukrainian leader that has been run out of town?  They are all dirty, slimy, and corrupt.  And they are picked by Ukrainians!  They get what they deserve.  Instead of going to war with their own government to make things better, they go to war with Russian-Ukrainians instead.  There, that's going to make it better!  It's just the same old story for Ukraine.  This never was a serious country.


Actually no, they're aren't really picked by Ukrainians.  They are picked by oligarchs.  Ukrainians have gone to war with their government, twice.  Once was the Orange Revolution, the second time was Euromaidan. 


I don't disagree that all Ukraine's politicians are corrupt.  But the measure of change must be incremental.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2016, 11:29:55 PM
That's my point Jone.  Canada has figured out how to make it work, while the US continues it's belligerence elsewhere.  Ukraine could try to do the same, understanding it's geographic realities.  Because those won't change.

US takes it's entry points to the Middle East very seriously.  So does Russia.  It's no different.  Let's see what happens when Saudi goes up in flames....


Seriously, you are comparing the U.S. with a country that throughout its history has been either authoritarian or totalitarian? 


The geographic realities of Ukraine doesn't mean that Russia gets to gobble it up.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 15, 2016, 11:36:12 PM

Seriously, you are comparing the U.S. with a country that throughout its history has been either authoritarian or totalitarian? 


The geographic realities of Ukraine doesn't mean that Russia gets to gobble it up.

No, I was making a point about geographic realities.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2016, 11:37:18 PM
Keep crying about it Jay.  There's two sides to the story.  And Ukraine has a long long list of excuses as to why it is so corrupt and 25 years on since it was given a chance to run its affairs it finds itself in its current state.  And when it comes to Ukraine, it seems to me that EVERYTHING IS SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT, right Jay?  Things won't get better for Ukraine as long as the country and it's defenders are unable to take responsibility for Ukraine's own shortcomings and failures.

If Canada was run by Ukrainians, as BillyB (kind of) hypothetically proposed, Canada would be a borderline failed state and it would all be the Americans fault!


As I posted, Russia is as corrupt as Ukraine.  The difference is that in Russia, the former KGB has tamed the oligarchs to serve the state, while in Ukraine, the state serves the oligarchs.  Nevertheless, when your neighbour is interfering in your internal affairs, has spies infiltrating every level of government, and every ministry, and where is puts up roadblocks to ensure your goods are not traded broadly, that bilateral trade agreements are stymied, then no, you can't place the blame solely and squarely on the shoulders of Ukrainians.


You also, I suspect, have little understanding of how the USSR worked.  That structure had an effect on post Soviet governments.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2016, 11:48:34 PM
Jay, this is more silly disinformation from your Ukrainian sources.  I know it's not as reliable as the Euromaidan Press, but I'm sure you can agree that the BBC isn't exactly pro-Russian.  Look at the BBC timeline of events in Ukraine:

February 23-26, 2014:

Parliament votes to ban Russian as the second official language, causing a wave of anger in Russian-speaking regions

February 27-28, 2014:

Pro-Russian gunmen seize key buildings in the Crimean capital, Simferopol. Unidentified gunmen in combat uniforms appear outside Crimea's main airports.

The Ukraine decided to start a war with its own citizens!  What do you think would happen in Canada if Ottawa decided to ban French?  But yes, Ukraine always needs someone to blame, so who better else than Russia?

Ukrainian nationalists predictably shoot themselves in the foot and then look for someone to blame, that's how it always goes.  I would say poor Russia, but it's Ukraine that needs to be pitied here.  I don't know that Ukraine will ever get it right....  They'll just keep blaming everyone else.


Again, your lack of knowledge of Ukraine (and its politics) is evident.


Since 1991, Crimea was always granted autonomous status.  Unlike other regions of Ukraine, it was not required to produce official documents in the Ukrainian language.  That was the case right up to its seizure by Russia.


Article 10 of Ukraine's constitution guarantees language rights to minorities.  But Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine. 


The 2014 proposal on language was merely to codify what was already in the constitution, and to guarantee minority linguistic rights.  In fact, those rights are more generous than those in Canada, for any region in which at least 10% of the population speaks a language would have had linguistic rights recognized and enforced by legislation.  That was the "controversial" bill presented. 


So when do you believe Canada will recognize Mandarin as a second language on the BC coast?


In any event, this again demonstrates your lack of knowledge of the history of Ukraine, one in which Russification was used in an attempt to wipe out the Ukrainian language, going all the way back to the Tsars (look up "Ems Ukaz"). 


I always supported the Ukrainization efforts in Ukraine.  My better half, a native Russian speaker (though his Ukrainian is absolutely fluent, better than mine, although the endings on some of his words are Russian), thought it better to allow language to develop on its own.  The policy was a good one, for in one generation, Ukrainian has re emerged as a language of the masses, even if Russian is still the language of business, and more commonly spoken in Central/Eastern Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2016, 11:49:59 PM
I know, you were proposing a slightly different hypothetical scenario.  And I take your point (we're back to geography here again), but Russia is not responsible for all Ukraine's problems.  If Poland had a border right against Russia (actually, they do with Kaliningrad), I tend to feel they would be doing much better than Ukraine is.  Ukraine just has way to many psychological issues or I don't even know what to call them.  But they can't get over themselves and just get on with reality even though I'm sure many Ukrainians would like to.  Now they made it worse by attacking their own people with language oppression.  I can't see how that is going to expedite the road to peace and prosperity.


Once again, a failure to understand history.  Ukraine had a long way to go, because its language and culture were oppressed for centuries.   Not only by Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 15, 2016, 11:50:42 PM

As I posted, Russia is as corrupt as Ukraine.  The difference is that in Russia, the former KGB has tamed the oligarchs to serve the state, while in Ukraine, the state serves the oligarchs.  Nevertheless, when your neighbour is interfering in your internal affairs, has spies infiltrating every level of government, and every ministry, and where is puts up roadblocks to ensure your goods are not traded broadly, that bilateral trade agreements are stymied, then no, you can't place the blame solely and squarely on the shoulders of Ukrainians.


You also, I suspect, have little understanding of how the USSR worked.  That structure had an effect on post Soviet governments.

No, Russia is not as corrupt as Ukraine.  Russia is corrupt, but not as corrupt as Ukraine.  That is objectively true to anyone who has been in both places or has done business in both places. 

Ukrainians need someone to blame for all their problems.  Sure, some can be validly pinned to Russia, but the problem is Ukraine tries to pin every one of its problems on Russia, and that simply strains all credulity!

I acknowledge that you know much more about the USSR than I do, and while I have no direct experience, you are wrong to suggest I have "little understanding" of how it worked.  It worked that way in other Soviet Republics as well, including Russia.  It's just Ukraine that can't get up to speed.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 15, 2016, 11:50:45 PM
No, I was making a point about geographic realities.


I understood your point.  But it is irrelevant to the building of a state. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 15, 2016, 11:52:41 PM

I understood your point.  But it is irrelevant to the building of a state.

Sorry, how is geographic reality irrelevant to building a state?  Ukrainian territory isn't in cyberspace or something!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2016, 12:04:04 AM
No, Russia is not as corrupt as Ukraine.  Russia is corrupt, but not as corrupt as Ukraine.  That is objectively true to anyone who has been in both places or has done business in both places. 

LOL.  I have clients who have done business in both places.

Client 1 - Owned oil and gas interests in Ukraine.  Partner was an arm of the Ukrainian government.  Partner tried to squeeze client out.  Client sued.  Won.  In Ukraine's Supreme Court.  Millions in damages (actually profit on client's seized interest, together with interest thereon), and still owns that interest.

Client 2 - Sold oil and gas equipment, very specialized, for oilfield production in Ukraine.  Paid in full, did several contracts, no problems.

Client 3 - Established an oilfield service business in Russia.  Did well while a very small profit.  Once more profitable, starting being "fined" by the Russian government.  "Fines" went away with bribes.   When very profitable (five years in), business was seized by the Russian government.  No compensation to the client.

Client 4 - In a partnership with a Russian company.  When the company was well established and profitable thanks to client's expertise and training, the client was strong armed to sell at a loss to the Russian partner.

The client 3 and 4 scenarios happen in Ukraine as well.  But if you believe Russia is not as corrupt as Ukraine, I have $8 million locked in a Nigerian bank account.  PM me, and for the $800,000 fee I will pay to the Nigerian government to unlock that money, I will give you a 50% finder's fee.

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Ukrainians need someone to blame for all their problems.  Sure, some can be validly pinned to Russia, but the problem is Ukraine tries to pin every one of its problems on Russia, and that simply strains all credulity!

No they don't.  They never blamed their problems on Russia until Russia f****n invaded them.  Don't give me that BS.  I read Ukrainian papers daily.  I read Russian papers as well.  Ukraine has always had a freer press than Russia (Russia had a fairly good, free press in the Yeltsin years), partly because of all those diaspora Ukrainians who pored into the country on its independence, and who trained Ukrainian journalists.

Yanukovych started controlling Ukraine's press.  However, these days, Ukraine's press is again free.  Now, though, most of the mainstream media is owned by oligarchs, so their particular perspectives will be portrayed in the press.  That doesn't mean what is printed is inaccurate, just that it can be slanted.  It's fairly easy for anyone with half a brain to spot, so it's not an issue.

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I acknowledge that you know much more about the USSR than I do, and while I have no direct experience, you are wrong to suggest I have "little understanding" of how it worked.  It worked that way in other Soviet Republics as well, including Russia.  It's just Ukraine that can't get up to speed.

Er, uh, no.  It didn't.  Proof again you don't know what you are talking about.

As for other Soviet republics, you mean like Uzbekistan?  The republic where the recently deceased leader boiled alive his enemies?  Or Turkmenistan?  Where the leader decreed that the new name for "bread" would henceforth be his mother's name?  Azerbaijan, whose leader was named Transparency Internationals "Corruption Person of the Year"? Armenia?  Georgia?   

The only republics doing decently are the Baltic Republics, thanks to the EU, and Kazakhstan, thanks to its oil and gas, and it is ruled by an autocrat.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2016, 12:08:10 AM
Sorry, how is geographic reality irrelevant to building a state?  Ukrainian territory isn't in cyberspace or something!


I repeat.  The geographic realities of Ukraine doesn't mean that Russia gets to gobble it up.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 16, 2016, 12:17:48 AM

Maidan was started by Ukrainian oligarchs, not Americans.

Ukraine's government has always been riddled with Russian spies. 


You likely are unaware that during the coup, all KGB records in Kyiv were moved to Moscow.  Every president and PM of Ukraine was part of the former nomenklatura.  Their files sit in Moscow, and can be used for Moscow's benefit as Moscow sees fit.  In fact, almost all the politicians in both Russia and Ukraine were part of the former nomenklatura.  In one case, a "mova mova" politician from L'vivska oblast had her KGB files leaked by Moscow during Euromaidan.  It turns out she was a komsomol member (not unusual) and informant at L'viv State University.  Her political career ended that day.


Uh, no.  Was Ivan Franko "Eastern looking"?  Were Kost Levytsky or Yevhen Petrushevych "Eastern looking"?  How about Metropolit Shyptetsky?


Your statement is absurd, and is evidence of the paucity of your knowledge of Ukrainian history, political movements, intellectual, or cultural life.


Actually, it is not that simple.  Russia has been interfering in Ukrainian political life since about 1994. 

Up until Russia's invasion of Ukraine, poll after poll after poll in Ukraine had Ukrainians rejecting NATO membership.  It was never on the cards, neither wanted, nor offered.


Yeah, they live wonderfully in Russia. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Which coup are you talking about?

Referencing a few intellectuals who were westward looking does not make the point that Ukraine was westward looking.  It wasn't.  It has always been in Russia's orbit and looking eastward.  I don't say that as a slur.  It's just a fact.  It has always been inextricably linked with Russian history, starting with Kievan Rus.

I once had the opportunity to learn Ukrainian history when I marked for Ukrainian history course.  This course was taken mostly by Ukrainians, presumably because they saw it as an "easy" Arts credit, which they needed for their science degree.

The most I learned about Ukrainian history were from two students who wrote exceptional and well-researched papers.  Judging from their last names, they weren't Ukrainian.  All the Ukrainian students simply wrote nonsensical diatribes which we based on "my father told me this..." blah blah.

Given the opportunity to teach, Ukrainians had nothing of value to offer, so you are right, my Ukrainian history is a bit dodgy.

Russia has been interfering in Ukrainian life since 1994?  So what are you saying?  That Russia stopped interfering for 3 years and then started again?

Afghan, Uzbek and other refugees live better in Russia than from where they left.  That's why they came and that's why they haven't gone back, which they are always free to do.  I didn't say it's Club Med or something.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 16, 2016, 12:25:35 AM

I repeat.  The geographic realities of Ukraine doesn't mean that Russia gets to gobble it up.

The geographical realities of Ukraine means that it has to try to be successful within its geographical reality.  Russia isn't trying to gobble it up any more than Ukraine is already a regurgitation of Russia.

Damn, I just got hungry for pierogies!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2016, 12:51:00 AM
Referencing a few intellectuals who were westward looking does not make the point that Ukraine was westward looking.  It wasn't.  It has always been in Russia's orbit and looking eastward.  I don't say that as a slur.  It's just a fact.  It has always been inextricably linked with Russian history, starting with Kievan Rus.

Once again, this demonstrates the paucity of your knowledge.

In case you were unaware of historical facts, Ukraine was divided in two.  Roughly half of Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire.  Roughly half of it was part of the Polish Empire, and later, the Austro-Hungarian Empire.  Do you believe the Ukrainians living in that part of Ukraine which was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire looked East?  No, they did not. 

By the way, not all the names I listed were those of Ukrainian intellectuals. 

Kiev Rus' was no more a part of Russian history than it was/is a part of Ukrainian or Belarussian history.  It was the precursor state of all the Eastern Slavs.  The language they spoke is not modern day Russian.  And yes, they were so focused on Russia, that at their zenith, the Kievan Rus' empire extended all the way to that famous Eastern Russian mountain range known as the Carpathians.

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I once had the opportunity to learn Ukrainian history when I marked for Ukrainian history course.  This course was taken mostly by Ukrainians, presumably because they saw it as an "easy" Arts credit, which they needed for their science degree.

The most I learned about Ukrainian history were from two students who wrote exceptional and well-researched papers.  Judging from their last names, they weren't Ukrainian.  All the Ukrainian students simply wrote nonsensical diatribes which we based on "my father told me this..." blah blah.

Given the opportunity to teach, Ukrainians had nothing of value to offer, so you are right, my Ukrainian history is a bit dodgy.

Well good for you.  I have an MA in Soviet studies, with a major in history.  Yes, you are absolutely correct.  There are no preeminent Ukrainian historians.  No Mykhailo Hrushevsky, whose works are still referred to well over a century after he wrote them, and whose works on the Cossacks are still the best sources in existence.  No Ivan Rudnytsky, Zenon Korhut, John-Paul Himka, Paul Magosci, Volodymyr Kubijovy,  Roman Senkus, Marko Stech, Andrij Makuch, Taras Hunczak, Orest Subtelny, or Serhii Plokhii.  Those are the ones I can name off the top of my head.  Many of them are outstanding academics.

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Russia has been interfering in Ukrainian life since 1994?  So what are you saying?  That Russia stopped interfering for 3 years and then started again?

Is your knowledge of recent Russian history as weak as your Ukrainian history?  You are aware that there were two attempted coups against Yeltsin between 1992 and 1994, are you not?

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Afghan, Uzbek and other refugees live better in Russia than from where they left.  That's why they came and that's why they haven't gone back, which they are always free to do.  I didn't say it's Club Med or something.

And that is different from Ukraine, exactly, how?  It has Africans, Vietnamese, Afghans, Georgians, Azeris, Armenians, etc., living throughout the country.  Google Mustafa Nayyem.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2016, 01:05:39 AM
The geographical realities of Ukraine means that it has to try to be successful within its geographical reality.  Russia isn't trying to gobble it up any more than Ukraine is already a regurgitation of Russia.

Damn, I just got hungry for pierogies!


Pierogies are Polish.  Pyrohy are Ukrainian.  :)


Russia is in fact trying to gobble up Ukraine.  What do you think Putin's pressure on Ukraine to reject the EU trade deal was about?


Given your comparison to the US, when did the US put pressure on Canada to reject CETA? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 16, 2016, 01:21:56 AM

Once again, this demonstrates the paucity of your knowledge.


In case you were unaware of historical facts, Ukraine was divided in two.  Roughly half of Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire.  Roughly half of it was part of the Polish Empire, and later, the Austro-Hungarian Empire.  Do you believe the Ukrainians living in that part of Ukraine looked East?  No, they did not. 


By the way, not all the names I listed were of Ukrainian intellectuals. 


Kiev Rus' was no more a part of Russian history than it was/is a part of Ukrainian or Belarussian history.  It was the precursor state of all the Eastern Slavs.  The language they spoke is not modern day Russian.  And yes, they were so focused on Russia, that at their zenith, the Kievan Rus' empire extended all the way to that famous Eastern Russian mountain range known as the Carpathians.



Well good for you.  I have an MA in Soviet studies, with a major in history.  Yes, you are absolutely correct.  There are no preeminent Ukrainian historians.  No Mykhailo Hrushevsky, whose works are still referred to well over a century after he wrote them, and whose works on the Cossacks are still the best sources in existence.  No Ivan Rudnytsky, Zenon Korhut, John-Paul Himka, Paul Magosci, Volodymyr Kubijovy,  Roman Senkus, Marko Stech, Andrij Makuch, Taras Hunczak, Orest Subtelny, or Serhii Plokhii.  Those are the ones I can name off the top of my head.  Many of them are outstanding academics.


Is your knowledge of recent Russian history as weak as your Ukrainian history?  You are aware that there were two attempted coups against Yeltsin between 1992 and 1994, are you not?


Let me refresh your memory a little -


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis



And that is different from Ukraine, exactly, how?  It has Africans, Vietnamese, Afghans, Georgians, Azeris, Armenians, etc., living throughout the country.  Google Mustafa Nayyem.

If you don't think I respect the war dead, I haven't more to say to you.  Besides, I have a paucity of knowledge and must be a complete imbecile on all these topics because I have a different point of view.

You want to belittle, then go ahead.  You can belittle someone else and be happy in your Ukrainian safespace where your ideas are never seriously challenged.

I don't want to debate with children who have to preamble every comment with a version "what an idiot you are".

I don't do it to you and I expect the same in return.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on November 16, 2016, 01:23:29 AM

Pierogies are Polish.  Pyrohy are Ukrainian.  :)


Russia is in fact trying to gobble up Ukraine.  What do you think Putin's pressure on Ukraine to reject the EU trade deal was about?


Given your comparison to the US, when did the US put pressure on Canada to reject CETA?

Yes, I know.  We still use other than Ukrainian words for our food.  The Ukrainian fascists ran us out of your god blessed country.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2016, 01:34:14 AM
If you don't think I respect the war dead, I haven't more to say to you.

Please post where I stated anything about the war dead.  You don't get to make up random cr@p.

Quote
Besides, I have a paucity of knowledge and must be a complete imbecile on all these topics because I have a different point of view.

You want to belittle, then go ahead.  You can belittle someone else and be happy in your Ukrainian safespace where your ideas are never seriously challenged.

You do have a paucity of knowledge.  If you didn't, you would not have posted about Kiev Rus' being "Russian" history (it's East Slavic history, and you will find it in Ukrainian history books as well as Russian history books, and Belarussian history books).  You would not have posted about Ukrainians "always looking Eastward".  That is inaccurate as well.

I am not belittling you by pointing to your lack of knowledge.  Nothing I have posted which contradicts your assertions is in any way controversial.  You, OTOH, have posted there are no Ukrainian historians, and you expect to be taken seriously.


Quote
I don't want to debate with children who have to preamble every comment with a version "what an idiot you are".

I don't do it to you and I expect the same in return.

I never posted you are an idiot.  Just that you are commenting on things that it is evident you have little knowledge of, either in the historical or the current one.  Pointing to that is hardly calling you an idiot.  Lack of knowledge is not akin to idiocy. 

There used to be a poster here named Stirlitz (that's a character from a Soviet television programme).  He is from Crimea, and lives in Odessa.  He is ethnically Russian, and until recently, didn't even speak Ukrainian.  When Russia started the troubles in Ukraine, he was witness to many of them first hand, including the fire in Odessa, which he blamed in Russian provocateurs.  So, he joined the Ukrainian army.  That is the current reality of a citizen of Ukrainian, even an ethnically Russian one. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on November 16, 2016, 01:40:24 AM
Kiev Rus' was no more a part of Russian history than it was/is a part of Ukrainian or Belarussian history.  It was the precursor state of all the Eastern Slavs.  The language they spoke is not modern day Russian.  And yes, they were so focused on Russia, that at their zenith, the Kievan Rus' empire extended all the way to that famous Eastern Russian mountain range known as the Carpathians.

As you are a foreigner it's understandable you don't know the history well. Surely you never tried to read the Old Slavic manuscripts, otherwise there would have been a surprise for you because their language is much closer to the Russian than to artificially created Ukrainian.

Иди учи матчасть и не позорься. http://1981dn.livejournal.com/34815.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2016, 01:44:50 AM
I have read OCS manuscripts, because I studied it in university.  I don't recall stating Ukrainian was closer to it than other languages.  However, Russian no longer uses the vocative case, which exists in OCS.  Ukrainian does.

I studied Bulgarian (long story).  I think it is closer to OCS than either Russian or Ukrainian.

Ukrainian is not an "artificially created" language.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2016, 01:45:54 AM
Yes, I know.  We still use other than Ukrainian words for our food.  The Ukrainian fascists ran us out of your god blessed country.


It was a joke.  Just as if I use the term "pyrohy", my better half corrects me and says "varynyky".


But, forget it.  So you're a Ukrainian hating Pole.  Gotcha.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 16, 2016, 02:09:57 AM
Jay, with all due respect, do you have any better sources?  STS-1492news quoting "The the New York the Times"??? Huh?  I haven't looked to see if the NYT is actually reporting this, I'm putting in as much effort as you.  To the reported speech itself, it reminds me of reporting in Indian and other newspapers: "So, of Germany it is or about other countries, I do not think you get support that need."  What does it even mean? 

Look, Jay, I stand to be corrected and if Trump has come out pro-Ukraine, then so be it.  I don't think he's such a fool as to join the wrong side though.  If he is backing Ukraine, you DO understand that he is using them as a pawn, right?  Because, what else is Ukraine other than a pawn?

"we will expand the sanctions against Russia and Russian oil companies, will strengthen the impact on the banking sector and isolate it as North Korea, "

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/svit/v-kremle-panyka-tramp-usylym-sanktsyy-protyv-rf-y-yzolyruem-kak-severnuyu-koreyu/

Transcript: Donald Trump Expounds on His Foreign Policy Views



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/us/politics/donald-trump-transcript.html?_r=5
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 16, 2016, 02:20:00 AM
For those that seem intent on arguing about the obvious


The document names the situation in Crimea and Sevastopol a ‘factual ongoing state of occupation'.

The report also provides an analysis of the conflict in eastern Ukraine, saying that additional information points to ‘direct military engagement between Russian armed forces and Ukrainian government forces'.

Hague report points at Russia-Ukraine armed conflict

The available information suggests that the situation within Crimea amounts to an international armed conflict between Ukraine and Russia.

http://uatoday.tv/crime/hague-report-points-at-russia-ukraine-armed-conflict-806284.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 16, 2016, 05:14:46 AM
...Look at the BBC timeline of events in Ukraine:

February 23-26, 2014:

Parliament votes to ban Russian as the second official language, causing a wave of anger in Russian-speaking regions

For some reason, nobody has pulled you up on this, nor have you corrected it yourself.

Yes, Parliament (Rada) voted to ban Russian as the second official language - and they rescinded that ban almost immediately.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 16, 2016, 11:59:12 AM



The International Court in the Hague has ruled that Russia has actually invaded and annexed Krim illegally.     


So what does Russia do in response? It withdraws from the Rome Agreement that authorized the court and it's rulings. 


The only thing that's saving their popkas is that they (at this time) still have veto power at the UN's Security Council.


 Now is the time to apply heavy sanctions and remover Russia from SWIFT to bring down
these ruthless criminals in charge.
http://themoscowtimes.com/news/hague-tribunal-recognizes-crimean-annexation-as-a-military-conflict-between-russia-ukraine-56154 (http://themoscowtimes.com/news/hague-tribunal-recognizes-crimean-annexation-as-a-military-conflict-between-russia-ukraine-56154)




http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/11/17/hague-court-rules-against-moscow-on-crimea-so-moscow-withdraws-from-rome-agreement/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/11/17/hague-court-rules-against-moscow-on-crimea-so-moscow-withdraws-from-rome-agreement/)
[size=0.85em]


Report to moderator (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=21380.22;msg=450449)   (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Themes/default/images/ip.gif) 66. (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=helpadmin;help=see_member_ip)
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Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 16, 2016, 03:28:12 PM
For some reason, nobody has pulled you up on this, nor have you corrected it yourself.

Yes, Parliament (Rada) voted to ban Russian as the second official language - and they rescinded that ban almost immediately.


This is inaccurate.  This is a good overview of the law as it existed and the proposal -


http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/05/25/ukrainian-vs-russian-the-ban-that-never-was/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 16, 2016, 04:28:48 PM

This is inaccurate.  This is a good overview of the law as it existed and the proposal -


http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/05/25/ukrainian-vs-russian-the-ban-that-never-was/

Major point is that it actually protects the use of Russian !

It has been answered many times previously on this forum.

Part of the point of the headline is that Putin's actions have raised  the use of Ukrainian --or at least more of it-- in the population generally.
The rise is in the concept of a "new' Ukraine - free of Russian interference and corruption etc was incredibly strong during 2014  as the hope spread across Ukraine.
Of course -- on Crimea people never got the chance -nor in eastern Ukraine where Russia was most active in promoting it's own agenda.
In both areas- the myth of the Russian language being "banned" was promoted erroneously.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on November 16, 2016, 04:33:44 PM
We became friends with two professors here from Kharkiv.
And we have had their parents to our house when they were in town for a visit.
They are ethnic Ukrainian, but said they had mostly spoken Russian at home.
However now they and most of their friends have switched to speaking Ukrainian exclusively and encourage others to do the same.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on November 16, 2016, 04:56:51 PM

This is inaccurate.  This is a good overview of the law as it existed and the proposal -

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/05/25/ukrainian-vs-russian-the-ban-that-never-was/

Thanks Boethius.  My error.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 16, 2016, 05:03:13 PM
Don't know if you remember, Kiwi, but that whole banning thing was created to enrage the Russian nationalists in the country.  Just like those idiots marching around in Nazi uniforms.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 16, 2016, 05:12:38 PM
 Permian Basin in West Texas has become second to a huge field  in Saudi Arabia in size. This'll take more wind out of the sail of the one trick pony that is Russia. More US exports to Europe of gas and oil will finish bringing Russia back into the international community simply because they are rapidly running out of cash.  :clapping: :clapping:
[/size]
[/size]  [/size]http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article114931993.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 16, 2016, 05:22:08 PM
I have plenty of natural gas for Europe.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 16, 2016, 06:09:34 PM

Despite all the news being generated by the change of power underway in Washington, there is one story this week that deserves top priority: Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. On Tuesday, the director of the National Security Agency, Admiral Michael Rogers, was asked about the WikiLeaks release of hacked information during the campaign, and he said, "This was a conscious effort by a nation-state to attempt to achieve a specific effect." He added, "This was not something that was done casually. This was not something that was done by chance. This was not a target that was selected purely arbitrarily."
The NSA Chief Says Russia Hacked the 2016 Election. Congress Must Investigate.



http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/will-congress-investigate-russian-interference-2016-campaign
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 16, 2016, 06:14:57 PM

Not just in the US  --the track of Russian support for extremist organisations across the EU is well known

Germany 'Alarmed' About Potential Russian Interference In Elections

The head of Germany's domestic BfV intelligence agency has expressed concern that Russia may try to interfere in the country's general elections next year.

In an interview with the Reuters news agency late on November 15, Hans-Georg Maassen cited the case last year of a Russian woman from Berlin who Russian media said was kidnapped and raped by migrants -- a claim later rejected by the German government.

"This could happen again next year and we are alarmed," Maassen said.

"We have the impression that this is part of a hybrid threat that seeks to influence public opinion and decision-making processes," he added.

Chancellor Angela Merkel said last week that there were signs of Internet attacks and misinformation campaigns from Russia.

http://www.rferl.org/a/germany-alarmed-russian-interference-elections/28120660.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 17, 2016, 01:55:56 PM

How the Russian economy hit rock bottom.


This is an interesting read of the state the economy of Russia and the possible slow regrowth of their economy to to the level of 2014 by the year 2020.  :rolleyes: 







http://themoscowtimes.com/articles/how-the-russian-economy-hit-rock-bottom-56185
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Larry1 on November 17, 2016, 03:36:57 PM
I have not seen this mentioned here yet. It's a detailed report on active duty Russian troops fighting in Eastern Ukraine. If you're interested in this topic it's worth a read. It even provides names of some of the troops.

Here's an excerpt:

Russia’s 61st Separate Naval Infantry Brigade in the Donbass.

The following investigation from Askai707 provides a significant amount of evidence that proves the direct participation of Russia’s 61st Separate Naval Infantry Brigade (often referred to as just the “61st Naval Infantry Brigade” or “61st Brigade” in the translation) in the Ukrainian Conflict, particularly in villages near Luhansk in the summer and fall of 2014. Askai identifies about a dozen Russian servicemen who were photographed and filmed in Luhansk at a separatist base in 2014 — many of whom were awarded medals by decree of the Russian President after returning home, and continued serving as active servicemen.

These men who were photographed and filmed fighting in Ukraine in 2014 were not volunteers. These men were not locals. These men were not “on vacation” and acting outside of their duties as servicemen of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

Full report at the link, with photos of the Russian troops and other evidence of the presence of active duty Russian troops.

http://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2016/11/15/russias-61st-separate-naval-infantry-brigade-donbass/

It might take the Russian Troll Factory a few days to throw up sand to try to dispute this investigation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 17, 2016, 04:02:03 PM
  The typical Russian response  to anything that does not fit  the propaganda narrative is to lie -- and then tell more lies  and bigger lies in the attempt to confuse the issue. Often it is basically trying to tell us black is white !

Backed up my the troll army whose charter is to counter any negatives and spread the Kremlin "version' of any set of events.

One of the best example was/is over  the Russian shooting down of MH 17 . Any google search at the time would show literally 100's of results for the various explanations the Kremlin tried to sell the world at any given time. What you may deem more factual news stories from reputable news agencies were buried in a sea  links that offered by the troll army to whatever diversion was being promoted by the Kremlin at that time.
Social media the situation was much the same.To this day -- in every site where public comment is possible the preponderance of those promoting Kremlin bs is extraordinary.
The other comment-sites like this one are not exempt.It is clear enough that we have had a few "sleepers" here . They will be here for some time making a few innocuous posts on general topics  -and gradually another agenda becomes obvious.

The role of Bellingcat in gathering the evidence to prove Russian lies beyond any reasonable doubt should not be underestimated. To say they are the subject of considerable troll attention is an understatement.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 17, 2016, 07:09:29 PM
Ocsassionally reports surface on those in Russia that are speaking out.
Anton Krasovsky assumes that the Russian people eventually experience a sense of shame for the crimes  committed, against  Ukrainian people and the peoples of other countries.

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi
/bravo-zhurnalyst-rf-v-pryamom-efyre-vyzval-
furor-v-sety-obyasnyv-rossyyanam-tyazhest-yh-prestuplenyya-y-nychtozhnost-pered-ukrayntsamy-vydeo/

BRAVO! Russian Journalist live caused a furor in the network Russians explaining the severity of their crimes and significance for Ukrainians

According to him, it is the fault of the Russians suffered millions of Ukrainians who from their land were forced to move to other areas.
In addition, Krasovsky have, the Russians have committed a crime against the people flying to the Malaysian Boeing over the Donbas and shot down a missile from a Russian installation "Buk".




Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/bravo-
zhurnalyst-rf-v-pryamom-efyre-vyzval-furor-v-sety-obyasnyv-rossyyanam-tyazhest-yh-prestuplenyya-y-nychtozhnost-pered-ukrayntsamy-vydeo/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on November 17, 2016, 11:06:44 PM
Use your translator.. US severs contract with Russian Volga-Dnieper and gives to Ukrainian Antonov Airlines.. Russian airline will be hurting.
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color][/size]http://73online.ru/readnews/46204[/color]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 20, 2016, 12:52:19 AM
We seem to have developed  a new group of  Russian apologists. What they all have in common is that they refuse to acknowledge the ills of Russia-- and want to point the finger at Ukraine -- and not face the fact that the bad news for Russia is entirely self inflicted.
Sure-Ukraine is the key to the fall in the Russian economy - as a result of the sanctions on Russia because of it's invasion of Ukraine .
The incompetent economic management long before the sanctions was the start of the decline -- and the massive miscalculation over Crimea has cut deep into the economy. It is possible that much worse is to come-with predictions of a falling oil price coming from different directions.
Russia's invasion and interference in Ukraine has been an arrogant mistake-of massive proportions.
Now-Putins last roll of the dice is to seduce Trump into giving him what he wants--ie  lift sanctions and accept Russian occupation of Crimea -- and of course -- leave Putin to continue meddling in Ukraine until Russia controls it again.


"And Putin great ": the first time since tsarist times were Russians earn less than Chinese

According to experts, the Higher School of Economics, the average salary in Russia in 2011 decreased by almost 30%
. Salaries of Russian citizens for the first time since czarist times in dollar terms were below Chinese. As the newspaper writes "Prime" This is against a background on largest since 1998 crisis, the collapse of the ruble, and reduced real incomes over the past two years.

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/svit/
y-putyn-velykyj-nam-put-ozaryl-upershe-z-
tsarskyh-chasiv-rosiyany-staly-zaroblyaty-menshe-kytajtsiv/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 23, 2016, 04:04:52 PM
Polish journalist attacked after telling the Russians how it is !!!

Needless to say--it was stopped from going to air in Russia.

Not a great translation-- but you can get the gist of it.

"Ukrainians want to live like normal people, not the shit, like you."

Recording the program "The right to vote" on the Russian propaganda channel "TV Center" on the situation in Ukraine, ended the fight participants. As a result, the transfer took off from the air and it was published only on the YouTube TV channel Center. Invited on the transfer Polish journalist Tomasz Matseychuk first noted that Russia is helping the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko to kill Russian Donbas, because at the Lipetsk plant earned money goes to buy weapons and ammunition for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Then we are talking about the average salary in Russia, which is significantly lower than the European. After the words Matseychuka "Ukrainians - they, too, want to live like normal people, not the shit you", a leading Roman Babayan asked the Poles to leave the studio with the phrase "I went away in FIG." Matseychuk continued to skirmish, but it attacked with fists hiding in the Russian ex-People's Deputy from the Party of Regions Igor Markov.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noCi15MbV2c
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on November 23, 2016, 04:46:02 PM
Polish journalist attacked after telling the Russians how it is !!!

Needless to say--it was stopped from going to air in Russia.

Not a great translation-- but you can get the gist of it.

It wouldn't be the first time JayH has got translations wrong, would it ...? !

1/ It's TV Tsentr

2/ They DID post the programme and brawl on their website ...   

It is a sort of state owned channel - forth largest following - IMHO mainly renowned for it's light entertainment - rather than 'propaganda'

As with most Russian TV channels that are state controlled - the truth is there - it is more about emphasis or lack of emphasis - depending about the agenda ....

The Russians and Ukrainians love to show each other are more 'crazy' with fights in parliament or in debates..

This 'translation' is 'interesting '..

"the Russian ex-People's Deputy from the Party of Regions Igor Markov."

Igor Markov is Ukrainian - from Odessa ... and has managed to be a political prisoner in Ukraine and been in and out with Yanu and Poro..  a former member of the Party of Regions - that disavowed Yanu ...
 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: papakota on November 28, 2016, 08:45:31 PM
Where is a wikipedia link from me?

OCS - eye - oko
Russian  - eye - glaz
Ukrainian - eye - oko

OCS - place - mesto
Russian place - mesto
Ukrainian place - misto

OCS - to carry - nesti
Russian to carry - nesti
Ukrainian to carry - nesti
Funny, we argued so much about the Ukrainian language that you tried to promote, but you don't even know it yourself. 

"Place" in Russian is "Mesto", that's correct, but in Ukrainian it's MISTSE and not misto. Misto means "town" in Ukrainian. Like misto Kyiv is a city of Kiev. Mistse is a place. Мiсце is a place in Ukrainian, not мicто. And you tried to prove me where people in Ukraine speak Ukrainian and where they speak Russian.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 29, 2016, 01:26:35 AM
More information from the actual records becomes available all the time. So much of it contradicts the "history" that todays Soviet Russia attempts to promote as the "history" of that time.

Ukraine releases KGB documents pertaining to famine in 1932-1933 known as Holodomor

On Saturday, November 26, Soviet KGB document on repressions during the famine of 1932-1933, known as Holodomor, were made public in Ukraine, and released in an electronic archive. Mainly, these are demonstrative documents: indictments, pictures and protocols that previously were unavailable to the public. According to the Director of the State Archive of the Security Service of Ukraine Andriy Kohut, search and systematization of the documents that shed light on this tragic page of Ukrainian history are currently in progress.

Meanwhile, the President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, has instructed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the country to continue to work towards recognition by the international community of the fact that Holodomor resulted in the genocide of the Ukrainian people. He said this at a mourning ceremony dedicated to the Day of Memory of Holodomor victims.

Since 1998, the Holodomor Remembrance Day is celebrated annually on the fourth Saturday of November. In 2006, the Verkhovna Rada officially recognized the Holodomor of 1932-1933 as genocide against the Ukrainian people.
http://www.uawire.org/news/ukraine-releases-kgb-documents-pertaining-to-famine-in-1932-1933-known-as-holodomor
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 03, 2016, 01:34:12 AM
The connection between the hidden history and today's occupation of parts of Ukraine is being made relevent every day by Russia. The contempt of Ukrainians is actively being promoted.Even on this forum we have a few that attempt to perpetrate the myths the Kremlin seeks to promote so cynically.

Russia hid details about the mass starvation on an unimaginable scale by Stalin in the 1930s and afterward until archives were opened following Ukraine's independence in 1991.

Ukraine is a nation interrupted, its identity and promise stolen by invaders and predators for centuries.

Ukraine’s principle oppressor has been, and remains, Russia where leaders like Vladimir Putin propagate the fiction that Ukraine is “little Russia”



New Film Exposes Russia’s Mass Murder of Ukrainians, Aggression that Continues Today


Finally, a film will be released in the new year that portrays Stalin’s monstrous policies and how they brought about The Great Famine of 1933, known in Ukrainian as the Holodomor (death by starvation).
“Like all Ukrainians, my family suffered enormously over the years,” he said. “There isn’t a Ukrainian alive who doesn’t know about the persecution, executions and starvation. Given the importance of what happened, and that few outside Ukraine knew about it because it had been covered up, the story of this genocide needed to be told. It’s relevant today.”

The scale of The Great Famine remained hidden by the Soviets, but in 1991 Ukraine declared independence and opened up the Soviet archives to the world. These revelations led to a 2003 United Nations Joint Statement, signed by Russia, that declared the Holodomor had taken 7 to 10 million innocent lives. Then on October 23, 2008, the European Parliament adopted a resolution recognizing the Holodomor as a crime against humanity.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-m-francis/film-russia-ukraine_b_8288514.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 05, 2016, 11:01:37 PM
The world wakes up !


International Criminal Court: Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Is A 'Crime,' Not A Civil War
[/size

The ICC report is particularly embarrassing for the Kremlin as it tries to peddle its parallel-reality version of the Ukraine conflict to the incoming Donald Trump administration.

http://www.forbes.com/sites
/paulroderickgregory/2016/11/20/
international-criminal-court-russias-invasion
-of-ukraine-is-a-crime-not-a-civil-war/#2d43b1777fec

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on December 06, 2016, 02:34:15 AM
The world wakes up !


As the US did in the past, Russia recently withdrew it's signature from the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

Why did the US withdraw before the 2003 Iraq invasion? 

Quote
Former U.S. President Bill Clinton signed the Rome treaty on Dec. 31, 2000, but President George W. Bush renounced the signature, citing fears that Americans would be unfairly prosecuted for political reasons.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/02/AR2011030200163.html

Why did RU withdraw?

Quote
The Russian foreign ministry made the announcement on Wednesday on the orders of the president, Vladimir Putin, saying the tribunal had failed to live up to hopes of the international community and denouncing its work as “one-sided and inefficient”.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/16/russia-withdraws-signature-from-international-criminal-court-statute

In different words, same same.

In any case the ICC has no 'teeth'.. in the matter.  They can only gum on the subject in hopes that one party or other will soften up.

Neither Russia or the US ratified the Treaty.  Ukraine never was a signatory/party to the ICC but simply lodged their complaints and accepting ICC jurisdiction.  http://www.icc-cpi.int/ukraine

Back to sleep world.

p.s. I'm not taking sides on this argument, just pointing out to Jay how useless his 'wake up call' is.  Instead of crying wolf echoing headlines, he should instead try to understand what is really happening and THEN post some thoughts that might be significant enough to initiate good discourse on the topic.


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 06, 2016, 08:06:08 AM
Funny, we argued so much about the Ukrainian language that you tried to promote, but you don't even know it yourself. 

"Place" in Russian is "Mesto", that's correct, but in Ukrainian it's MISTSE and not misto. Misto means "town" in Ukrainian. Like misto Kyiv is a city of Kiev. Mistse is a place. Мiсце is a place in Ukrainian, not мicто. And you tried to prove me where people in Ukraine speak Ukrainian and where they speak Russian.

Micto is also a word for place in Ukrainian, although not common.  But that was never my point.

http://slovnenya.com/dictionary/%D0%BC%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE (http://slovnenya.com/dictionary/%D0%BC%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE)


This link is cut up, so as to not change the reading pane -

http://www.lingvozone.com/main.jsp? (http://www.lingvozone.com/main.jsp?action=translation&do=dictionary&language_id_from=23&language_id_to=41&word=%D0%BC%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE&t.x=46&t.y=10)
action=translation&do=dictionary&language (http://www.lingvozone.com/main.jsp?action=translation&do=dictionary&language_id_from=23&language_id_to=41&word=%D0%BC%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE&t.x=46&t.y=10)
_id_from=23&language_id_to=41&word (http://www.lingvozone.com/main.jsp?action=translation&do=dictionary&language_id_from=23&language_id_to=41&word=%D0%BC%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE&t.x=46&t.y=10)
=%D0%BC%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE&t.x=46&t.y=10 (http://www.lingvozone.com/main.jsp?action=translation&do=dictionary&language_id_from=23&language_id_to=41&word=%D0%BC%D1%96%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE&t.x=46&t.y=10)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 07, 2016, 03:40:43 AM


The extension of the sanctions and the potential to widen them under Trump comes at a time when Putin and Russia are attempting to ingratiate themselves to Trump--will come as a big blow to Putin.
    The pressure of the sanctions is increasing daily -- and a little fine tuning is likely to push Russia to the brink.

Diplomats Say EU Set To Extend Sanctions Against Russia

BRUSSELS -- European Union diplomats say EU leaders are highly likely to prolong economic sanctions on Russia through July 31, 2017, when they meet in Brussels for a summit next week.

Several EU diplomats close to talks on the sanctions have told RFE/RL that EU leaders might give a green light for the six-month extension of the sanctions without a discussion when they meet on December 15.

http://www.rferl.org/a/eu-sanctions-russia-ukraine-prolonged/28159482.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 19, 2016, 09:06:41 PM



"To learn that rotten egg, did not have to eat it": Japanese politician wittily ridiculed Putin

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/shhob-diznatysya-shho-yajtse-tuhle-ne-obov-yazkovo-bulo-jogo-yisty-yaponskyj-polityk-dotepno-vysmiyav-putina/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 24, 2016, 02:22:11 PM
Here's an interesting article about the 'good times' in Russia now.


Production of alcohol is up 45%.  :clapping: :clapping:  Of courxe they're switching to cheaper vodka substitutes, like the kind that killed 72 in [/size]Irkutsk[/color][/size] recently.[/color]

[/size] For more of the conditions that they are going thru ,   [/color][/size]http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/12/24/how-bad-are-things-in-russia-children-ask-father-frost-to-send-them-to-the-dentist/[/color]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on December 24, 2016, 03:36:00 PM
Here's an interesting article about the 'good times' in Russia now.

Jingle your schadensfreude bells loudly.. fits right in to the holiday spirit.

Sick.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 25, 2016, 12:37:35 AM
Sick? Of the Russian invasion? You bettcha!


 The conditions for the Russian are brought on by the Huliomeister and his dreams of imperial glory. They're hurting because of him.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on December 27, 2016, 08:27:04 AM
The Kerch Straight bridge,, Put off again because no one wants to fall under sanctions and the estimated cost is way too low.


  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: Putin's legacy is a bust!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
No companies willing to build railway on Putin's bridge to Crimea
http://uatoday.tv/business/no-companies-willing-to-build-railway-on-putin-s-bridge-to-crimea-854003.html (http://uatoday.tv/business/no-companies-willing-to-build-railway-on-putin-s-bridge-to-crimea-854003.html)

To bridge the Kerch not come
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3181680 (http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3181680)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 27, 2016, 09:22:21 AM
The Kerch Straight bridge,, Put off again because no one wants to fall under sanctions and the estimated cost is way too low.


  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: Putin's legacy is a bust!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
No companies willing to build railway on Putin's bridge to Crimea
http://uatoday.tv/business/no-companies-willing-to-build-railway-on-putin-s-bridge-to-crimea-854003.html (http://uatoday.tv/business/no-companies-willing-to-build-railway-on-putin-s-bridge-to-crimea-854003.html)

To bridge the Kerch not come
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3181680 (http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3181680)



yeah but with trump coming in the ruble is at 18 month highs. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: papakota on December 28, 2016, 06:56:48 AM

yeah but with trump coming in the ruble is at 18 month highs. 


Fathertime!
It's not because of Trump. Oil prices went up after at OPEC they made a decision in Vienna to cut down the volumes of oil extraction. Trump is not a President yet.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on December 28, 2016, 07:19:41 AM
It's not because of Trump. Oil prices went up after at OPEC they made a decision in Vienna to cut down the volumes of oil extraction. Trump is not a President yet.

Absolutely correct. 

Russia's economy is based largely on commodities, a single commodity at that:  oil and gas.   The ruble fluctuates with the price of oil.   Oil was in an upward trend before Trump won the election.  This is shown in the movement of the energy companies in the S&P 500 Index:   

                            Feb 11 – November 7: +25.7%
                            November 8 – present: +9.8%

Banks are also a significant part of the Russian economy.  The S&P 500 Financial companies have moved upward also:
                           Feb 11 – November 7: +25.1%
                           November 8 – present: +17.3%

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 28, 2016, 09:54:21 AM
It's not because of Trump. Oil prices went up after at OPEC they made a decision in Vienna to cut down the volumes of oil extraction. Trump is not a President yet.


That is true, but still I get the feeling the ruble would not have rallied quite so much,  if it were hillary that was president elect.  Hopefully Trump/Putin can get on the same page and get the 2 countries off a unnecessary collision course.


Fathertime!   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: papakota on December 28, 2016, 10:36:41 AM

That is true, but still I get the feeling the ruble would not have rallied quite so much,  if it were hillary that was president elect.  Hopefully Trump/Putin can get on the same page and get the 2 countries off a unnecessary collision course.


Fathertime!
RUR was traded at about 66 for 1 USD and now it's about 60 for 1 USD. 10% difference. I don't think it's so crucial, considering that only couple years ago it was about 32 RUR for a dollar. But on the other hand, it's quite good for Russia, since some predicted awhile ago that ruble would plummet to like 80, if not 100 for a buck. An oil was under $30 a barrel not too long ago. Now it's twice as much.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2016, 11:54:52 AM
The rail bridge will be severely delayed - but the road bridge construction continues apace

The bridge that carries the materials all the way out to the channel to the Azov Sea has been completed from either end - the piers for the road bridge, proper are being sunk.




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 28, 2016, 02:43:10 PM
RUR was traded at about 66 for 1 USD and now it's about 60 for 1 USD. 10% difference. I don't think it's so crucial, considering that only couple years ago it was about 32 RUR for a dollar. But on the other hand, it's quite good for Russia, since some predicted awhile ago that ruble would plummet to like 80, if not 100 for a buck. An oil was under $30 a barrel not too long ago. Now it's twice as much.


yeah 10% improvement (quite a bit in short order)...if you look at some of the other commodity based economies, their value vs the dollar hasn't changed very much such the election of Trump.  I'd say Trump has improved Russia's currency singularly. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 07, 2017, 05:23:50 AM
Russia finally confesses that they have control of Donbas with their military.   :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Just as we've known all along, Russia is behind the invasion!  :crackwhip:


ZIK.UA quoting the pro Russia site, Ukrayina.ru shows this article.


http://zik.ua/en/news/2017/01/03/russia_lets_cat_out_of_bag_1019909
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 07, 2017, 06:51:35 AM
Devastating sanctions" for Russia demanded Intelligence Director elected Trump.

Use your translator for this one: http://ukrainian.voanews.com/a/den-kouts-rosiya-sankzii/3665925.html   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on January 07, 2017, 11:37:09 AM
Mike, your last message makes little sense as posted.

Where is the website you want us to visit to read about your posting?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on January 07, 2017, 12:48:56 PM
I guess Mike was intending to refer to this website:

http://all.true-news.info/elect-trump-for-the-position-of-chairman-of-the-dnis-office-is-putting-demanded-to-toughen-sanctions-against-russia/

Very weird and confusing translation, it seems.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 07, 2017, 02:41:26 PM
Sorry about that ML. This site has some hickups that screw up copy/pastes along with other problems that haven't been fixed.


 It was from the Voice Of America site. Ukie version.


http://ukrainian.voanews.com/a/den-kouts-rosiya-sankzii/3665925.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on January 10, 2017, 01:32:48 PM
More on the Kerch Bridge from an article at Atlantic Council.


"And in December 2016, Yury Medovar from Russia’s Academy of Sciences [/size][/font][/size]said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8oOoeAF3Xc)[/color][/size] that the bridge is being built without a proper design, since nobody wants to take responsibility for it. The bridge cannot be built, he said, and God help us if it is, since it can’t last."


http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/russia-s-crimea-bridge-could-collapse-anytime
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 13, 2017, 06:27:09 PM
With so much uncertainty on how the  new Trump administration will deal with Russia and the FSU generally
every utterence is being analysed. Now it seems that several of Trump's prospective appointee's have offered views quite different to Trumps comments..

Is this the really BAD NEWS FOR RUSSIA?


Tillerson Takes Firm Stance On 'Resurgent' Russia In Senate Hearing

Tillerson told lawmakers that Washington should have advised Ukraine to move all available military assets to its eastern border and provide those assets with defensive weapons, U.S. or NATO air surveillance, and intelligence.

He added that Russia's leadership saw the Obama administration's response to Crimea as "weak."

http://www.rferl.org/a/trump-secretary-state-nominee-tillerson-russia-must-be-accountable-nato/28225007.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on January 14, 2017, 06:09:16 PM
More on the Kerch Bridge from an article at Atlantic Council.


"And in December 2016, Yury Medovar from Russia’s Academy of Sciences [/size][/font][/size]said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8oOoeAF3Xc)[/color][/size] that the bridge is being built without a proper design, since nobody wants to take responsibility for it. The bridge cannot be built, he said, and God help us if it is, since it can’t last."


http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/russia-s-crimea-bridge-could-collapse-anytime

Mikey, your link is more full of UA type righteous indignation - rather than factual reasons why the bridges won't get completed..

Yes, the UN Gen Assembly voted in favour of UA's resolution re the legality of Russia's military take-over and subsequent 'referendum'  - 100 - 11 - but it wasn't legally binding and the Ruskies vetoed the Sec. Council vote which would have been legally binding - even though they lost 13:1.

I have no idea if it will stay up, but the road bridge is well on it's way and will not 'obstruct' shipping, as 35m plus high ships do not generally navigate to the Asov Sea.

I don't approve of the Kremlin's methods to have arrived at the 'referendum'  - but this is just another article more designed to keep enraged locals happy  - rather than being mindful of the realities on the ground...



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: onlyFSU4me on January 14, 2017, 06:31:54 PM
To tell you the truth when they first announced they were starting the bridge I was surprised it was so soon. Usually it takes months or even a couple years to design a structure of that magnitude. And they have to go and map and test the sea floor to decide what kind of pilings to use, how deep to set them, etc.There is no basic application for these type of things, each situation is unique. I wasn't really surprised when I read that article.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 15, 2017, 01:05:10 AM
Donald Trump's Pentagon pick, James 'Mad Dog' Mattis, says the US needs to be ready to confront Russia where necessary.

James Mattis says US needs to be ready to confront Russia

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-13/james-mattis-says-us-needs-to-be-ready-to-confront/8179980

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAtcMIXVmj4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2oLQiVXkwo

The longer version of hearing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl44EVo_roY
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 20, 2017, 12:07:12 AM
China's relationship with Russia has been discussed a few times here. Some of us repeatedly made the point that China would eat Russia-- at some stage !  It did not take long to be proven accurate . Also of note -- China has offered to help Ukraine in the east.

The biggest fear of Russia

The Kremlin no longer nourish no illusions about the cooperation with China, and the Russian authorities are most afraid that Russia will become a "younger sister of China", which is in every way superior to Russia, and in all respects

http://replyua.net/putin/52543-politolog-samyy-bolshoy-strah-rossii.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on January 20, 2017, 06:38:30 AM
JayH

I'm at a loss to find anything that backs up your contention that you've been proven correct in this article...

For sure, early noises from 'Tramp' had suggested he was more gunning more China than Russia and is prepared to 'forgive' Russia for away games in Ukraine...  Not something that is 'bad news ' for Putin's Russia...

The guy ( 'Tramp' - sounds better in Russian ) has already proven he says one thing to get attention / votes - but suggests he was joking or some other lame excuse now he's about - OMG - to get the football

You couldn't have written a blacker comedy movie about this...proving fact is stranger than fiction ..

Off to work in a garden and will studiously be avoiding any 'news' / TV, today - lest I catch a glimpse of 'Tramps' inauguration ))

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 29, 2017, 02:18:12 PM
 FORMER KGB spy chief suspected of helping Brit spook Christopher Steele compile the Trump ‘dirty dossier’ has been found dead in mysterious circumstances.
“Erovinkin’s body was sent to the FSB morgue”.

That morgue must be getting pretty full !!


DIRTY DOSSIER DEATH Russian spy linked to Donald Trump’s dirty dossier found DEAD in his car in Moscow

Oleg Erovinkin is suspected of being Brit spy Christopher Steele's key source behind widely discredited allegations against President Trump

http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2727446/russian-spy-donald-trump-dirty-dossier-dead-car-moscow/


 Former KGB general who helped MI6 spy compile the Donald Trump dirty dossier who has been found dead in the back of his car amid claims of a Kremlin cover up


Oleg Erovinkin was found dead on Boxing Day in the back of his black Lexus
The morgue in Russia has not reached a conclusion about the cause of death
Local media is claiming foul play was at the centre of him being killed in Moscow
It has been claimed Erovinkin is a key source mentioned in the explosive dossier

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4166610/Kremlin-covered-murder-former-KGB-chief.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 29, 2017, 03:23:39 PM
Maybe the UK is sending a message to Trump that the pressure must not be eased on Russia?
HMS Diamond, a Type 45 destroyer with anti-aircraft rockets, will go to Ukraine
It is part of the biggest British military build-up on Russia’s borders for decades
It comes as the PM told US politicians that Britain and USA should stand up Putin


Royal Navy warship to Black Sea after warning we must stand up to Russia

Britain is sending one of its most advanced warships to the Black Sea – the first time the Royal Navy has deployed there on an operational mission since the Cold War.

In a dramatic show of strength by Theresa May, HMS Diamond, a Type 45 destroyer equipped with the latest anti-aircraft rockets, will set sail for Ukraine carrying up to 60 Special Boat Service and Royal Marine commandos.

The move is part of the biggest British military build-up on Russia’s borders for decades, and comes after the Prime Minister told US politicians that Britain and America should stand up to President Vladimir Putin.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4167612/HMS-Putin-Hunter-sends-Royal-Navy-ship-Black-Sea.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on January 29, 2017, 04:07:29 PM
Maybe the UK is sending a message to Trump that the pressure must not be eased on Russia?
HMS Diamond, a Type 45 destroyer with anti-aircraft rockets[?Moby], will go to Ukraine
It is part of the biggest British military build-up on Russia’s borders for decades
It comes as the PM told US politicians that Britain and USA should stand up Putin

Let's hope her engines don't pack up - still, it usually only happens on hot days ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/12/23/rolls-royce-prepares-test-fix-unreliable-type-45-destroyer-engines/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/12/23/rolls-royce-prepares-test-fix-unreliable-type-45-destroyer-engines/)

''Rolls-Royce prepares to test 'fix' for unreliable Type 45 destroyer engines on the open sea''



The move is part of the biggest British military build-up on Russia’s borders for decades, and comes after the Prime Minister told US politicians that Britain and America should stand up to President Vladimir Putin.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4167612/HMS-Putin-Hunter-sends-Royal-Navy-ship-Black-Sea.html

JayH doesn't understand the readership profile of the UK DM ... read by the blue rinse brigade who still think 'we' have an empire and a navy that sends warships to invoke gun boat diplomacy


It's just the UK saying - 'if you can send your smokey  'ol Admiral Smith carrier down the English Channel - we can visit the Black Sea ...


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 29, 2017, 04:24:15 PM




JayH doesn't understand the readership profile of the UK DM ... read by the blue rinse brigade who still think 'we' have an empire and a navy that sends warships to invoke gun boat diplomacy
.

Moby --really --you are hardly  The Times demographic --where you can also read the story.

Oh -wait--it requires an 8 quid subscription --maybe we can have a whip around to help you out with that?
Alternatively -- you can sign up for a free read of 2 articles per week -- which is probably beyond your reading comprehension !

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days

Best you stick to looking at the pictures in the Sun !    :popcorn:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on January 29, 2017, 05:25:08 PM
Moby --really --you are hardly  The Times demographic --where you can also read the story.

Yet you quoted the FREE online version of the Daily Mail ?!

Oh -wait--it requires an 8 quid subscription 

That explains why YOU didn't quote The Times..

This household pays your ex-Aussie News Mogul - Rupert Murdock's - News International considerably more for access to his TV channels - and I buy The Sunday Times..  if not sailing on a Sunday and the Independent on weekdays - if travelling ...   

Alternatively -- you can sign up for a free read of 2 articles per week -- which is probably beyond your reading comprehension !

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days)

Diversion, obfuscation and BS ... YOU used the Daily Mail - hence my mocking your 'news' ...

Your 'bad news' is hardly going to get the Russians nervous, anymore that I lost sleep knowing Admiral Smith' was puffing her way - accompanied by a tug - back up the English Channel from Syria...


Best you stick to looking at the pictures in the Sun !    :popcorn:

The reader may not know, but the Sun is a tabloid  - also owned by Rupert Murdock - who's target market is the male reader who doesn't care who runs Britain as long as they have nice 'hooters' ..   

JayH, The Sun might see the inside of this household wrapped in Fish 'n' Chips ... 

Sending a single ship - the Russians sent a convoy through the channel - put's your 'news' in perspective....

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 29, 2017, 11:14:09 PM


Diversion, obfuscation and BS ... YOU used the Daily Mail - hence my mocking your 'news' ...



I could have used this--but you don't like  Ukrainian sources -- so i was helping you out !
Needless to say you have failed to understand the significance of sending the ship.



Britain sent in Ukraine missile destroyer HMS Diamond for secret missions

It is noted that a military ship, equipped with the latest anti-aircraft missiles will arrive in the Black Sea and will protect 650 British soldiers involved in the secret exercises in Ukraine.

"Britain is sending a clear signal that we are committed to defending democracy around the world and support the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Ukraine", - said Michael Fallon, who is the defense minister of Great Britain.
http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/velykobrytaniya-napravyla-v-ukrayinu-raketnyj-esminets-hms-diamond-dlya-sekretnoyi-misiyi/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on January 30, 2017, 01:49:05 AM
I could have used this--but you don't like  Ukrainian sources -- so i was helping you out !
Needless to say you have failed to understand the significance of sending the ship.


JayH, did you consider who has ''failed' ? You can use any source you like - but for goodness sake don't suggest it is 'bad news' for any one - when it clearly isnt.


The Russians sent a convoy through the English Channel this week - a far more powerful force - that really was bad news for the west ( hoping Assad would fall )and the majority ethnic grouping in E.Aleppo


Meanwhile, there is a treaty in place to limit how many non Black Sea Nations' ships can cruise on the Black Sea...   













Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 30, 2017, 04:58:41 PM
It is noted that a military ship, equipped with the latest anti-aircraft missiles will arrive in the Black Sea and will protect 650 British soldiers involved in the secret exercises in Ukraine.

Um...they're obviously not secret now!  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 30, 2017, 11:25:10 PM
These geologists must be hopeless-- they need to ask Moby  for advice !! ;D


Storm in Crimea destroyed building "Kerch bridge"
According to preliminary data, the damage from the storm is about 100 million rubles.

Storm in Crimea completely destroyed one of the sections of the construction of the bridge Kerch. Destroyed piles, reinforced concrete pipes, supports, all demolished in the sea - are self builders.

According to geologists, the storm was not significant. But even this does not stand not built bridge.

In case the maximum level mark a storm, the bridge would carry a whole, not to mention the seismic shocks, etc.

Experts claim the country's leadership that the bridge is not only advisable but also extremely dangerous, because it can not withstand the slightest storm.

http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/vse-sneslo-k-chertyam-shtorm-v-krymu-unychtozhyl-stroytelstvo-kerchenskogo-mosta-vydeo/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jz9Xip2j0Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFPCLZbVgDA


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on January 31, 2017, 01:33:48 AM
These geologists must be hopeless-- they need to ask Moby  for advice !! ;D


Storm in Crimea destroyed building "Kerch bridge"
According to preliminary data, the damage from the storm is about 100 million rubles.

Storm in Crimea completely destroyed one of the sections of the construction of the bridge Kerch. Destroyed piles, reinforced concrete pipes, supports, all demolished in the sea - are self builders.

According to geologists, the storm was not significant. But even this does not stand not built bridge.

In case the maximum level mark a storm, the bridge would carry a whole, not to mention the seismic shocks, etc.

Experts claim the country's leadership that the bridge is not only advisable but also extremely dangerous, because it can not withstand the slightest storm.

http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/vse-sneslo-k-chertyam-shtorm-v-krymu-unychtozhyl-stroytelstvo-kerchenskogo-mosta-vydeo/


Dear, don't cry too loud  ;)  Your hopes aren't fulfilled yet.
The weather in Crimea http://kerch.nuipogoda.ru/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0-%D0%B2%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0  ...  Btw, video you posted was from 2011, Sochi.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 31, 2017, 01:41:43 AM
Positively "warm" compared to Vladivistok  ! :)

Social media was full of that video today  --only later did I find original  date ~  still -- it does show the power of Black Sea storms.

btw -- you spoilt Moby bait! :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on January 31, 2017, 03:48:00 AM
The video links no longer work

Yet, ANOTHER example of JayH not knowing the area and trusting 'bollox' data
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on January 31, 2017, 12:54:41 PM
Positively "warm" compared to Vladivistok  ! :)

Social media was full of that video today  --only later did I find original  date ~  still -- it does show the power of Black Sea storms.

btw -- you spoilt Moby bait! :)

The Kerch Strait belongs to the Sea of Azov. Teach materiel better  :P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on January 31, 2017, 02:02:49 PM
Um...they're obviously not secret now!

No, it's still a secret to the 650 guys involved.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 31, 2017, 04:50:48 PM
The Kerch Strait belongs to the Sea of Azov. Teach materiel better  :P

The Kerch Strait JOINS the two seas, and is less than 50 kilometres long.  A straight line from one end of the Strait to the other is about 35 kilometres, so it should be a pretty safe assumption that plenty of nasty storms originating in the Black Sea have passed through the area surrounding the Strait over the years and have ended up in the Sea of Azov - going right through the area where the bridge is being built.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on January 31, 2017, 06:36:57 PM
Geographically the Kerch Strait belongs to the Sea of Azov. Certainly,  there are heavy storms also,  but it doesn't make Jay ' video less fake.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 31, 2017, 07:24:43 PM
Geographically the Kerch Strait belongs to the Sea of Azov. Certainly,  there are heavy storms also,  but it doesn't make Jay ' video less fake.


FWIW -- trying not to be too pedantic--
1/ It is NOT "my"  video  --it was in the link listed.
2/ My comment on storms was not being directly applied to Kerch -- but in response to "Sochi" comment ,which is clearly on the Black Sea
3/ As AK so correctly states-- the Kerch Strait will be subject to the storms rolling in through the Black Sea
--obviously enough immediately adjacent !

4/  A Russian giving geography advice? Surely not  !!
Perhaps you can offer your services to the Russian military who have lost their way and found themselves in Ukraine !!!
Or perhaps to your beloved leader who repeatedly denied those very same military were in Ukraine ! Maybe he just had his maps confused?  Or was he using "alternative" facts !!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on January 31, 2017, 08:02:08 PM

FWIW -- trying not to be too pedantic--
1/ It is NOT "my"  video  --it was in the link listed.

Ple-ease .. it was an article posted by you .. fake news ..and you got busted... 

2/ My comment on storms was not being directly applied to Kerch -- but in response to "Sochi" comment ,which is clearly on the Black Sea

IF you knew this area, you'd know Sochi is a micro-climate - sub tropical - and while the Kerch Straits might be freezing up - that won't be the case down in Sochi - which is MUCH milder in Winter and doesn't have the very high temps Crimea reaches in Summer.


3/ As AK so correctly states-- the Kerch Strait will be subject to the storms rolling in through the Black Sea
--obviously enough immediately adjacent !

But Sochi is not...


4/  A Russian giving geography advice? Surely not  !!
Perhaps you can offer your services to the Russian military who have lost their way and found themselves in Ukraine !!!
Or perhaps to your beloved leader who repeatedly denied those very same military were in Ukraine ! Maybe he just had his maps confused?  Or was he using "alternative" facts !!

To remind you, JayH.. you started off your fake news article referring to 'Geologists needing to ask me for advice' ...   

My advice for you ..when in a hole - stop digging ..

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on January 31, 2017, 08:07:32 PM
Ple-ease .. it was an article posted by you .. fake news ..and you got busted... 


My advice for you ..when in a hole - stop digging ..

Really  -- fcs -- read the story. You want to dispute that storms have damaged the bridge works?
Nothing fake about it.

While you are busy handing out advice-- take it yourself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on February 01, 2017, 02:38:36 AM
Really  -- fcs -- read the story. You want to dispute that storms have damaged the bridge works?

Find us a story about this from a reputable source

I looked under Kerch, Putin Crimea bridge

Nothing fake about it.

I asked a local on Crimea and Novorossiysk - on the Russian mainland and they were surprised... no strong winds, recently


I could only find Sevastopol's historic  weather for the past few days.. Check this link... find me your 'storm', please ..

http://staging.timeanddate.com/weather/ukraine/sevastopol/historic (http://staging.timeanddate.com/weather/ukraine/sevastopol/historic)


While you are busy handing out advice-- take it yourself.

:) Clearly, it was a highly localised 'tornado'..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 04, 2017, 12:56:07 AM
It is easy enough to understand why Trump is intent on flying in the face of reality  -- BUT  -- the overwhelming evidence says it would be a lot smarter to acknowledge it happened --  and move and DO something about it !
Now that would be an actual step to making America great again !

The hacker who claimed to compromise the DNC swore he was Romanian. But new research shows he worked directly for the Vladimir Putin government in Moscow.
‘DNC Hacker’ Unmasked: He Really Works for Russia,

The hacker who claims to have stolen emails from the Democratic National Committee and provided them to WikiLeaks is actually an agent of the Russian government and part of an orchestrated attempt to influence U.S. media coverage surrounding the presidential election, a security research group concluded on Tuesday.
The researchers, at Arlington, Va.-based ThreatConnect, traced the self-described Romanian hacker Guccifer 2.0 back to an Internet server in Russia and to a digital address that has been linked in the past to Russian online scams. Far from being a singly, sophisticated hacker, Guccifer 2.0 is more likely a collection of people from the propaganda arm of the Russian government meant to deflect attention away from Moscow as the force behind the DNC hacks and leaks of emails, the researchers found.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/26/dnc-hacker-unmasked-he-really-works-for-russia-researchers-say.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on February 04, 2017, 01:29:59 AM
You mean last July??

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/26/dnc-hacker-unmasked-he-really-works-for-russia-researchers-say.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/26/dnc-hacker-unmasked-he-really-works-for-russia-researchers-say.html)

Here I thought Guccifer was a bunch of bong making Transylvania transvestite geeks in Greenwich Village :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 04, 2017, 07:38:08 PM
Quite a long story with  a lot of seemingly disconnected events tied together.

The motives of the leakers to Steele, as yet unclear, could well reflect a power struggle within Russia’s intelligence and security apparatus. Numerous western and Russian media reports, dating back to last summer, have documented a rivalry between the FSB and other of Putin’s security agencies. Sechin, although not officially a member of the Russian intelligence community, is a former KGB officer and still has deep connections there.

Putin’s Intelligence Crisis

According to an expert on Russian security matters, cited by the British Telegraph: “I have no doubt that at the time Erovinkin died, Mr. Putin had Mr. Steele’s Trump dossier on his desk. He would—arguably—have known whether the alleged… story is based on fact or fiction. Whichever is true, he would have had a motive to seek—and find the mole.”

At the time of the FSB arrests, memos from the Steele dossier had been circulating in the US intelligence community, and among members of Congress, for months. The Putin leadership was doubtless aware of the memos and furious that the material contained in them, including a possible Kremlin plan to use kompromat against Trump, had been leaked. If the information in the dossier is accurate, it could have been intended for various uses, including to exert pressure on Trump to cancel US sanctions against Russia. It is worth noting that the December arrests of FSB officials were not revealed publicly in Russia for several weeks, indicating that the Kremlin was trying to keep the purge under wraps

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/02/03/putin-intelligence-crisis-trump-dossier-fsb/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 05, 2017, 04:17:45 PM
You have to wonder why  DJT simply does not concede it happened.

Russian arrests spur questions over links to US hacking

Fallout from report on Russian hacking
A series of high-profile arrests in Russia, purportedly including officers of the country’s secretive Federal Security Service and a cybersecurity expert, has intelligence officials on both sides of the Atlantic trying to unravel a mystery they suspect may be connected to Russian hacking in the U.S.

Russian news media have described the arrests—including at least two intelligence officials at the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, and an employee at Kaspersky Lab, Russia’s most prominent cybersecurity firm—as being part of a treason case.

Russian officials haven’t publicly confirmed details of the case or the arrests, but local news outlets have reported dramatic details, including the arrest of one of the intelligence officers at an FSB meeting, with the suspect being led away with a bag over his head.

The reports have fueled speculation among Western intelligence officials who have been monitoring the situation closely that the arrests may be tied to allegations that Russia was involved in hacking aimed at influencing the recent U.S. presidential election and an unverified dossier alleging collusion between the Kremlin and the President Donald Trump’s campaign.
The roundup of Russian intelligence officials has the earmarks of a classic mole hunt, some current and former intelligence officials said. But they said there are other plausible explanations why Russian authorities would go after their own spies, including cracking down on government officials who moonlight as hackers-for-hire and may have been jeopardizing ongoing intelligence operations.

The Kremlin has made only a cryptic acknowledgment of the recent arrests. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Wednesday that Russian President Vladimir Putin had most likely been briefed on a cyber-espionage case that has been making headlines in Russia.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/02/05/russian-arrests-spur-questions-over-links-to-us-hacking.html

Russian Arrests Spur Questions Over Links to U.S. Hacking

MOSCOW—A series of high-profile arrests in Russia, purportedly including officers of the country’s secretive Federal Security Service and a cybersecurity expert, has intelligence officials on both sides of the Atlantic trying to unravel a mystery they suspect may be connected to Russian hacking in the U.S.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-arrests-spur-questions-over-links-to-u-s-hacking-1486296001

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 10, 2017, 10:52:25 PM
The state’s attitude toward the internet has become increasingly hostile, says Agora’s most recent report. “The Internet is perceived by Russian authorities as a battleground.”

To put it simpler, Internet freedom in Russia is in deep trouble. The Moscow Times reviews the most alarming signs of this worrying trend.



6 Signs There’s No Such Thing as Internet Freedom in Russia


Writing about Crimea, Ukraine, Syria or religion on social media in Russia has become a dangerous business. Saying — or typing — the wrong thing on the internet could now land you a harsher sentence than if you beat your wife.

http://themoscowtimes.com/articles/6-signs-theres-no-such-thing-as-internet-freedom-in-russia-57119
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 14, 2017, 04:28:28 PM
This is a typical Russian piece of dumb thinking that they think is a useful negotiating tool
Along with ships not far from the US itself  --it would have to be very bad timing-- to say the least !
Or perhaps -- they already understand Trump will not allow them to get away with the bs Obama  allowed.



Russia Deploys Missile, Violating Treaty and Challenging Trump


WASHINGTON — Russia has secretly deployed a new cruise missile that American officials say violates a landmark arms control treaty, posing a major test for President Trump as his administration is facing a crisis over its ties to Moscow.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/world/europe/russia-cruise-missile-arms-control-treaty.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 14, 2017, 07:51:56 PM
Time for Trump to show some real leadership and put Putin in his box !
Navy ought to say-- you move into an attack position and/or come within  X km of our ships or aircraft --we will shoot them down !
See if Putin wants to keep playing stupid games.
What Trump has  that is a very useful card to play-- he is unpredictable ! That can be used to advantage.Trump just has to know when it is time to shut up !



Just last week, a US Navy warship in the Black Sea had three encounters with Russian aircraft Friday that were deemed to be unsafe and unprofessional because of how close the Russian planes flew to the US, according to a senior defense official.
The USS Porter, a guided-missile destroyer, was operating in the Black Sea when it was approached three times by Russian aircraft, including one IL-38 and two Su-24s. The Navy calculated the Russian planes may be have flown as close as 1,000 yards laterally from the ship and 1,000 feet over the water, but did not cross the deck of the Porter.

Russia deploys missile in apparent treaty violation

Washington (CNN)Moscow has deployed a cruise missile in an apparent treaty violation, a senior military official told CNN Tuesday.

The move is just the latest in a string of Russian provocations in the early days of the Trump administration, which has called for warmer relations with the Kremlin.
The traditional US adversary has also positioned a spy ship off the coast of Delaware and carried out flights near a US Navy warship, concerning American officials. The administration has not officially drawn any links between the three events.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/14/politics/russia-cruise-missile-spy-ship/index.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 19, 2017, 12:44:46 AM

Not much respect for Russia here ! But -why would there be--proven systematic cheating is the Russian sporting culture.

They played the wrong anthem !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vzIlKUyQjU
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on February 19, 2017, 06:32:52 PM
Not much respect for Russia here ! But -why would there be--proven systematic cheating is the Russian sporting culture.

They played the wrong anthem !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vzIlKUyQjU

For me it are the great news.  :D The Russian biathlon team won the world championship gold medal for the first time in last 9 years. Looks like the organizers were not expected Russians to win, more victories, they will learn the Russian anthem better. Actually, as it was told on the press-conference, during season 4 biathletes regularly take medications, and they are not Russians. The accusations for the most part turned out to be false, but for some reasons JayH doesn't write about that.  ;D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on February 19, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
Congrats on your win, Whynotme.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on February 19, 2017, 07:15:49 PM
Was very interesting.  I watched the protesters and the call for the breaking of diplomatic relations between Ukraine and Russia today.  The people of Ukraine are tired of seeing their soldiers killed.  They also called for a full economic boycott with the Donbas and Lugansk.  Such would isolate anyone inside the Eastern European areas. 

I do believe that given that Ukraine has had two full years to organize itself that it would put up a much better fight than previously, if Russia tried to invade.  However, I see that Merkel is failing in the polls in Germany.  I don't think a new German Chancellor would be as sympathetic to Ukraine's plight. 

Really, everything depends on Putin now.  If he becomes aggressive in Ukraine then the Republican Congress in the US might deliver an ultimatum to Trump to produce lethal weapon support for Poroshenko's regime.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 21, 2017, 02:42:46 PM

During his two decades in power, Putin's net worth has been widely speculated
Russian President Vladimir Putin might be the richest man in the world, according to experts who believe he could have a net worth of $200billion.
One of the most quoted guesses of the 64-year-old's net worth is Political analyst Stanslav Belkovsky's 2007 estimation of $40billion
But Bill Browder, author and a former fund manager in Russia, has said the president could be worth upwards of $200billion



Is Putin the world's real richest man?




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4242718/Vladimir-Putin-200-billion-fortune.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on February 24, 2017, 12:28:34 AM
Article has a good summary of the current state of play in Eastern Europe .


Why Russian Military Aggression Has Backfired on Moscow
KYIV, Ukraine—The Kremlin’s strategy of military aggression in Ukraine and Eastern Europe has backfired, spurring former Soviet and Warsaw Pact countries to become a de facto anti-Moscow military bloc, while NATO rearms and reinforces its eastern flank.

Altogether, Eastern Europe has become the most rapidly militarizing region on earth, which is not to Moscow’s advantage.

“I think [Russia’s military policies] have failed because they stimulated national resistance and the beginning of NATO rearmament,” Stephen Blank, senior fellow for Russia at the American Foreign Policy Council, told The Daily Signal.

“But there is no threat to Russia,” Blank added, underscoring how NATO and Ukraine are building up their militaries as a defensive move, which is not a bellwether for any offensive action against Russia.


dailydsignal.com/2017/02/17/why-russian-military-aggression-has-backfired-on-moscow/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 01, 2017, 10:27:48 PM
Rather interesting result in survey/.   Given that a % of those polled would have felt they should answer affirmatively -it leaves a solid basis not so keen.
It makes you wonder at what a free & fair survey would actually show-- maybe not 95% approval of Putin and his antics.  Maybe there is hope for Russia yet.

43% of Russians feel proud of Russia’s annexation of Crimea

The Levada Centre were probing what fills Russians with either pride or shame.  The survey was carried out from 20-23 January 2017, just a month before the third anniversary of Russia’s invasion and annexation of Crimea.  It is interesting that the second item proposed in the list of possible causes for pride was (as worded) “the return of Crimea to within the Russian Federation”.  43% of Russians answered that they felt pride in this, against 83% who were proud of what was described, as in Soviet times, as “Victory in the Great Patriotic War, 1941-45”.  It is unfortunately impossible to know whether enthusiasm for Russia’s annexation of Crimea has waned (or, less likely, risen) over the last 3 years since this is the first time the item about Crimea was added.
http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1488384989
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 02, 2017, 01:47:57 AM
JayH

I reckon the percentage of Russians who were pleased with the 'return' of Crimea is higher

I don't know, but do you think a Ukraine based polling agency - reading it's language re Crimea - would be 'accurate' ?


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 02, 2017, 02:52:04 PM
The Levada Center is a Russian sociological research organization, based in Russia, but with regional offices in other FSU countries.  It does more than just polling.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 02, 2017, 03:24:17 PM
It gets very tedious when malcontents on forum complain about links -- but- as I have repeatedly said -- often they support information or as in this case--provide an excellent summary of a situation --in this case-- the overall perspective on Putin and Russia today.
This has zero to do with being anti-Russian -- it is about the needless pain Russia has and is causing the world-- and it's own people.
Putin and his cronies are on borrowed time -- and the west can assist in consuming that time by increasing the pressure on Russia -- and doing it now.
I have repeatedly said that defeat of the Russians in eastern Ukraine will prove to be the litmus of the downfall of the Putin kleptocracy .



Putin Learns the Hard Way that Crimean Crime Does Not Pay

The biggest setback of all has occurred in Ukraine itself. Putin’s hybrid war sought to destroy the Ukrainian state; instead, it succeeded in consolidating Ukrainian national identity in ways few would have thought possible prior to 2014, while encouraging the creation of a formidable military bulwark against further imperial adventures. The loss of influence in Ukraine is a genuinely historic blow to Russian interests that will echo for generations.

None of this was inevitable. If Putin had not invaded Crimea, relations with post-Maidan Ukraine would have eventually stabilized and pragmatic compromises could have been reacted. The Kremlin would not have spent the intervening three years in a downward spiral of hybrid hostilities that have earned Russia new enemies while bringing few tangible benefits. Russia would still be a G8 nation and a welcome partner at the top table of world affairs. Instead, Putin will mark the third anniversary of his Crimean crime with no end in sight to an escalating geopolitical confrontation that is entirely of his own making.


http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putin-learns-the-hard-way-that-crimean-crime-does-not-pay
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 03, 2017, 12:32:55 AM
The Levada Center is a Russian sociological research organization, based in Russia, but with regional offices in other FSU countries.  It does more than just polling.


Thank you, Boethius - I only saw the Kharkiv(ov) address
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on March 03, 2017, 01:11:42 AM
The Levada Center is a Russian sociological research organization, based in Russia, but with regional offices in other FSU countries.  It does more than just polling.

You forgot to add that so called  "independent" sociological organization have received more than 120 thousand dollars from the US Defense Ministry and collected information for them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 03, 2017, 06:46:54 AM
What's wrong with a couple of NGOs among friends?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 03, 2017, 10:38:19 AM
You forgot to add that so called  "independent" sociological organization have received more than 120 thousand dollars from the US Defense Ministry and collected information for them.


It is irrelevant to my post.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 04, 2017, 05:43:11 PM
A long line of "mysterious" deaths and attempts on the lives of critics and opposition to Putin and his Kremlin kleptocracy continues .
Kara-Muzra is a well-known critic of the Kremlin and President Vladimir Putin. At the time of his most recent poisoning, He was promoting a documentary about his late friend, a fellow activist named Boris Nemtsov. Kara-Muzra said doctors told him the substance he was poisoned with the first time was unidentifiable — and it's unclear to him how or when the toxins entered his body.

Russian Dissident Survives Second Poisoning Attempt: I Felt ‘Like I Was Suffocating’

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-dissident-survives-second-poisoning-attempt-i-felt-i-was-n719061
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 17, 2017, 05:04:37 PM

Since the bridge is now complete it is making it much easier to access Crimea for Russsians ! ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X68NrKiBqw

 :welcome:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 17, 2017, 07:24:00 PM
Since the bridge is now complete it is making it much easier to access Crimea for Russsians ! ;D




Another JayH 'fail'.. Duh..

Putin's Bridges aren't complete across the Kerch Strait

This is a video from the Saratov Oblast ( region) of Russia...   ;D

Hint: freeze JayH's latest  'humour' gaff right at the end..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 17, 2017, 07:36:21 PM

When you stop laughing at Moby ( note the AT )  back to really serious stuff.

This is of high significence .As if the "mysterious" deaths of so many were not enough  now Putin has created his own inner army.
It will make any dissident voice very nervous to talk outloud !

No much doubt Putin has appointed himself for life !



Putin moves to give his “personal guard” KGB-like functions

The Rosbalt news agency is reporting that the Kremlin plans to give the National Guard of Russia additional functions which will make it a full-scale force structure and one that will be “much more similar to the KGB” of Soviet times than the Guard originally appeared to be.

The National Guard of Russia (also known as the Russian Guard) is an internal security corps with estimated strength of 500,000, organized along military lines. It was established in April 2016 and is directly subordinated to Putin.
And what makes this especially worrisome, the New Chronicle of Current Events says, is that the leader of the Russian Guard, Viktor Zolotov, has said that his organization’s function is the struggle against “’the fifth column’” and “’revolutionary stirrings’” in the population.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/03/16/putin-moves-to-give-his-personal-guard-kgb-like-functions-euromaidan-press/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 17, 2017, 08:07:37 PM
Oh dear,

JayH is copying and pasting more stuff that he hasn't checked for authenticity

1/  ''Viktor Zolotov, has said that his organization’s function is the struggle against “’the fifth column’” and “’revolutionary stirrings’” in the population.''

No - he didn't .. a regional head from the Altai said that .."In December 2016, the head of the Altai Territory’s branch of Rosgvardiya Aleksander Maul said that the Russia’s National Guard troops were created to combat the “fifth column” and “revolutionary ferment”.

2/ ''The National Guard of Russia (also known as the Russian Guard) is an internal security corps with estimated strength of 500,000''

Hmm, funny how one of the sources that JayH actually quotes says, "The National Guard will number some 350,000 to 400,000 troops, reported news agency Interfax in April 2016.''

3/ ''organized along military lines''

At least 50 percent of the Rosgvardiya are ex-Policemen..


''163,000 police officers who were laid-off when Putin signed a degree reducing the maximum number of law enforcement officials to 904,881 individuals would be transferred to the country’s National Guard.''

..and JayH wonders why folks don't take his cut and pastes seriously.

Source: http://meduza.io/en/news/2017/03/14/rosbalt-national-guard-to-take-on-fight-against-extremism-in-russia (http://meduza.io/en/news/2017/03/14/rosbalt-national-guard-to-take-on-fight-against-extremism-in-russia) quoted as a source in JayH piece....

VERY sloppy







Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: tfcrew on March 17, 2017, 08:17:49 PM
Another spin off story from the euromaidan site....

Quote
Starting from mid-June 2017, Ukrainians will be able to travel to the EU without visas for up to 90 days out of a 180-day period. According to the EU’s plan, seven steps still remain for visa liberalization with Ukraine, each of which has its date.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/03/16/104831/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 17, 2017, 08:35:38 PM
This has been on the cards for some time, but those seven steps are not forgone conclusions ..:(

Example: the French want the vote put back until after their Presidential elections as they feel granting UA citizens with Biometric passports visa free access would aid the cause of Marie Le Pen

''Paris has decided that the abolition of visa-free travel for Ukraine could become a trump card for Marine Le Pen in the presidential election to be held on 23 April and 7 May (two rounds)''

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/03/03/ukrainians-to-travel-visa-free-to-the-eu-in-mid-june-detailed-calendar/ (http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/03/03/ukrainians-to-travel-visa-free-to-the-eu-in-mid-june-detailed-calendar/)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on March 18, 2017, 10:19:47 AM
Visa-free travel: 7 steps away

According to Yevropeiska Pravda, the visa-liberalization process has to pass 7 more stages, each of which has its date (“tentative” means the specific dates for the events haven’t been published yet).

    The EU Civil Liberties Committee approves of visa liberalization for Ukraine – 9 March;
    The EU Parliament votes for visa liberalization on a plenary session – 5 April;
    Ambassadors of EU member states once again endorse the adopted decision and bring it to the agenda of the meeting of Ministers – 26 April;
    The decision is adopted by the qualified majority of the Council of EU Ministers – 11 May;
    The EU President and representative of the country holding Presidency at the Council of the EU (Malta) signs the decision – 15 May (tentative);
    It is published in the EU’s Official Journal (this usually takes up to a week) – 22 May (tentative);
    20 days later, Ukrainians can travel to the EU without a visa, provided they have a biometric passport – 11 June (tentative).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: wallm on March 18, 2017, 11:04:51 AM
The reaction I got from ladies last month was unanimous when I mentioned visa free travel.

here it is......

 :ROFL:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 18, 2017, 11:37:26 AM
An understandable reaction given the EU promised much and have delivered little ... Let alone the chances of the likes of certain nations within the EU agreeing to such an offer.

I mean the Ukrainians don't even effectively control their own SE borders :(

So, by no means all the EU's 'fault'
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 18, 2017, 01:26:32 PM
The reaction I got from ladies last month was unanimous when I mentioned visa free travel.

here it is......

 :ROFL:


It's not because it won't happen.  It's because most Ukrainians will not be able to take advantage of it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: wallm on March 18, 2017, 02:52:41 PM

It's not because it won't happen.  It's because most Ukrainians will not be able to take advantage of it.

Why? perhaps because they can't afford it?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 18, 2017, 02:54:39 PM
Yes.  Relatively few Ukrainians can afford to travel to the EU.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 18, 2017, 03:23:43 PM
Social Problems Intensify Across Russia
As a result of the economic crisis and government incompetence, social problems are intensifying across the Russian Federation; but by their very nature, they are so diverse that it is almost impossible either for Russians or for analysts to provide a comprehensive picture.


“Even large Russian cities are beginning to die” and other neglected Russian stories

10. Now Even Large Russian Cities are Beginning to Die
For more than half a century, Russians have talked about the dying out of that country’s villages and for the last two decades they have focused on the dying out of company towns. But now there is evidence that even large Russian cities outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg are losing their economic base and their population.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/03/19/even-large-russian-cities-are-beginning-to-die-and-other-neglected-russian-stories-euromaidan-press/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 18, 2017, 03:42:35 PM
Interesting report ( again) on the danger of being friend or foe in Russia.

Russian Whistleblowers Turn on Putin—But Can They Be Trusted?

A husband and wife who were members of the Russian parliament have defected to Ukraine. The Kremlin calls them ‘enemies of the people.’ Enemies of Putin is more like it.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/17/russian-spy-whistleblowers-turn-on-putin-but-can-they-be-trusted.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 18, 2017, 04:14:21 PM
I was reading through Russia's economic indicators today.  An interesting read.  Balance of Trade:  Off the scales in Russia's Favor;  Inflation:  At lowest point since 2012; Money supply:  Highest in years. 

Not bad considering that most of Russia's balance of trade depends on OIL WHICH IS SELLING AT $50.00 a BARREL, barely above Russia's cost of producing it. 

To me, this is Soviet Union II.  A bunch of lies coming from Russia's economic sources.  I don't know what the reason is that Russia has to lie to the rest of the world regarding its economic status, but it can only reach a single conclusion:  Collapse of the Russian Economy.  Reduced standard of living for the Russian people.  And a tightened iron fisted grip on the throats of the Russian worker. 

The world has already been down this road with Russia.  I wonder if anyone actually believes this tripe?

Does anyone have a dissenting opinion? 

I wonder who is going to wind up paying for Russia's adventures in Syria?  What a mirage!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on March 18, 2017, 06:14:36 PM
Money supply:  Highest in years. 


Why is this good ??
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 18, 2017, 06:19:40 PM
Why is this good ??

I presumed he was mocking the lies being told.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on March 18, 2017, 08:06:31 PM
I presumed he was mocking the lies being told.

Yes, but the lie that was told was an attempt to show the 'good' things.
So my question still remains.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 18, 2017, 08:11:11 PM
Yes, but the lie that was told was an attempt to show the 'good' things.
So my question still remains.

ML,

You are observant.  I should have said Federally held reserve funds they claim are the highest in years.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on March 18, 2017, 08:30:44 PM
ML,

You are observant.  I should have said Federally held reserve funds they claim are the highest in years.

OK, that's better.

Russia's Gold holdings  7th highest in world
Russia's FX reserve holdings  9th highest in world

If any of it can be believed.
I didn't check on trend lines.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 19, 2017, 01:27:10 AM
Dear JayH

Once again, I wish to point out that I'm no fan of some Kremlin policies - esp the physical interference in Ukraine, but I must point out the inaccuracy of your article  - the stats shown for the cities ARE probably accurate, but the conclusions...well..

Please explain why

Sochi

Krasnodar

Krasnoyarsk

Novosibirsk

have grown ?


They are 4 cities I know about ...  I also checked  Ivanovo and Yaroslavl - ( fell )  - but they are close to Moscow




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on March 19, 2017, 05:08:23 AM
I wonder who is going to wind up paying for Russia's adventures in Syria?  What a mirage!

Well, I'll skip all your shamanism about the soon  collapse of the russian economy because I believe it's not ethically right behavior to ruin the sweet dreams of a good man.
But don't you find the Russia's adventures in Syria can be viewed as good investments?  Omitting other aspects I'll point the consideration for "paying".
We have here the combat drilling of russian air force which would be taking place and money at bases in Russia, anyway. This part of cost is envitable.
Then the effect of promotion for arms export. Middle East was a good buyer of russian weapons and it seems to be the case in the coming years. Of course, the effective actions in combat operations are supported here by political considerations of local states like the draft deal to sell S300 surface-to-air missile system to Turkey.
And the most important issue, real handle to control of the oil-producing region. I doubt Saudi Arabia would arrange the deal with Russia on boosting oil prices without all this conflict.
  So 'mirage' as you told has boosted the hard currency inflow in Russia. You have noted the highest level of federal reserve funds but fail to connect the ends ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 19, 2017, 10:15:44 AM
Dear friend Belvis,

Don't drink the Kool-aid.

The extension of the OPEC deal simply cemented Russia into not exporting as much crude as it had in the past.  And if you think arms sales makes up for lost revenues in oil exports, I have a bridge in Valdivostok to sell you.  I do think that Russia is in a huge bind with liquidity because of the price of oil.  Russia's deal to not export crude has not had the desired effect of increasing oil prices.

Pull your country's budget for 2016 and 2017 and see what price the people who made those budgets thought oil would be selling at.

I really wish the Russian people well, but I believe that the Kremlin is lying to the world, and, especially its own people.  That's what happened with the Soviet Union - which Putin dreams of re-creating.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on March 19, 2017, 03:16:28 PM
Pull your country's budget for 2016 and 2017 and see what price the people who made those budgets thought oil would be selling at.
The budget is based on 40$/barrel with the deficit covered from the federal funds. Volume of the funds is sufficient to keep this rule for 3 years, at least, and longer at higher oil price. Then we'll see what can be done, print more money, make structural reforms in economics or just restrict consumption. Or may be we'll choose the collapse, depends on mood  8)

I believe that the Kremlin is lying to the world, and, especially its own people.  That's what happened with the Soviet Union - which Putin dreams of re-creating.
I believe you posses the great talent of reading Putin's mind. Usually not so talented high ranked men complain that they don't understand the intentions of the russian president. You has foreseen the russian economics will collapse soon so you should not worry about Putin's plans  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 19, 2017, 05:44:58 PM
Dear JayH

Once again, I wish to point out that I'm no fan of some Kremlin policies - esp the physical interference in Ukraine, but I must point out the inaccuracy of your article  - the stats shown for the cities ARE probably accurate, but the conclusions...well..

Please explain why

Sochi

Krasnodar

Krasnoyarsk

Novosibirsk

I can't comment on the two in Siberia, but I've visited both Sochi and Krasnodar.  Sochi has a magnificent location and the best climate in Russia, as well as having had the Winter Olympic Games just three years ago, so it's not surprising that it may have grown at the expense of cities and towns in other regions.  Krasnodar, to me, also has a superb location, with the beautiful Kuban River flowing through the city and, like Sochi, good transport connections to other cities in Russia and the rest of the world.  The central city gives off a bustling vibe which I found very rare in other Russian cities.  Although she hasn't posted in a long time, it's the original home town of our member Doll.

There is one thing which appears to be lacking in both these places - the old-style Khrushchev apartment blocks, which are the biggest eyesore in virtually every FSU city.  Both have modern residential buildings which look like they were designed by people who know what they're doing, rather than by a committee of apparatchiks with the architectural IQ of a penguin.  Have a look at some of my photos in the Gallery here and you'll see what I mean.

I'll qualify my comments by saying that my visit was in 2010.  While some things will have obviously changed since then, I can't believe that the underlying dynamic in both cities will have been one of them.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 19, 2017, 07:08:25 PM
The budget is based on 40$/barrel with the deficit covered from the federal funds. Volume of the funds is sufficient to keep this rule for 3 years, at least, and longer at higher oil price. Then we'll see what can be done, print more money, make structural reforms in economics or just restrict consumption. Or may be we'll choose the collapse, depends on mood  8)
I believe you posses the great talent of reading Putin's mind. Usually not so talented high ranked men complain that they don't understand the intentions of the russian president. You has foreseen the russian economics will collapse soon so you should not worry about Putin's plans  :rolleyes:

I am very happy to see that you've admitted that Russia is now SUBSIDIZING oil production.   Everything about the Russian budget is smoke and mirrors.  You may wonder why investors like me pulled out of Russia following the invasion of Ukraine.  The answer is that it was impossible to depend on any numbers coming from the Kremlin.   

Russia had 1/2 Trillion USD in a petro dollar reserve fund as recently as 2012.  Now, if if can even be believed, Russia has 20 billion of it left.

The market speculation is that Putin has hoarded so much of the available cash to himself and his cronies that there is virtually none left.  You talk about three years before it comes crashing down.  I have spoken to a number of people that believe Russia will be a beggar nation by the end of the current fiscal year. 

That is a travesty.  No infrastructure is being pursued.  The budget is targeted towards defense spending and the building of a KGB type infrastructure.  And what happens when the government no longer has enough money to pay for pensions?

No, the budget that I have read, when compared to previous budgets, just doesn't pass the sniff test.  Sources of revenue are being invented to cover up the deficits.  And I am a layperson.  Imagine how this looks to professional analysts.  Where is your critical thinking?

Looks like another five year plan to me.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on March 19, 2017, 07:47:41 PM
You may wonder why investors like me pulled out of Russia following the invasion of Ukraine.  The answer is that it was impossible to depend on any numbers coming from the Kremlin. 

This has always been true
No infrastructure is being pursued. 

The bridge . . .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 19, 2017, 09:57:43 PM



No, the budget that I have read, when compared to previous budgets, just doesn't pass the sniff test.  Sources of revenue are being invented to cover up the deficits.  And I am a layperson.  Imagine how this looks to professional analysts.  Where is your critical thinking?





Where is YOUR critical thinking?  Several years ago you insisted russia was on the verge of collapse.  Glad nobody held their breath at your ridiculous and obviously incorrect statement.  Your 'sniff test' is meaningless. 


Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 19, 2017, 10:51:10 PM


There is one thing which appears to be lacking in both these places - the old-style Khrushchev apartment blocks, which are the biggest eyesore in virtually every FSU city.  Both have modern residential buildings which look like they were designed by people who know what they're doing, rather than by a committee of apparatchiks with the architectural IQ of a penguin.  Have a look at some of my photos in the Gallery here and you'll see what I mean.

I'll qualify my comments by saying that my visit was in 2010.  While some things will have obviously changed since then, I can't believe that the underlying dynamic in both cities will have been one of them.

Most certainly Sochi has Khrushchyovka - they just aren't to be found right on the coast..( Go north or South of Sochi - on the train and some have been built in GREAT locations and command 'daft' prices.) They are built in the numerous valleys that run perpendicular to the coast

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchyovka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchyovka)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 20, 2017, 03:02:08 AM


No, the budget that I have read, when compared to previous budgets, just doesn't pass the sniff test.  Sources of revenue are being invented to cover up the deficits.  And I am a layperson.  Imagine how this looks to professional analysts.  Where is your critical thinking?





Where is YOUR critical thinking?  Several years ago you insisted russia was on the verge of collapse.  Glad nobody held their breath at your ridiculous and obviously incorrect statement.  Your 'sniff test' is meaningless. 


Fathertime!

Haha. So are you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 20, 2017, 05:35:04 AM
Haha. So are you.


Yes, true, but not to you!   :D


Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on March 20, 2017, 05:40:01 AM
I am very happy to see that you've admitted that Russia is now SUBSIDIZING oil production.   Everything about the Russian budget is smoke and mirrors.  You may wonder why investors like me pulled out of Russia following the invasion of Ukraine.  The answer is that it was impossible to depend on any numbers coming from the Kremlin.   

Russia had 1/2 Trillion USD in a petro dollar reserve fund as recently as 2012.  Now, if if can even be believed, Russia has 20 billion of it left.

The market speculation is that Putin has hoarded so much of the available cash to himself and his cronies that there is virtually none left.  You talk about three years before it comes crashing down.  I have spoken to a number of people that believe Russia will be a beggar nation by the end of the current fiscal year. 

That is a travesty.  No infrastructure is being pursued.  The budget is targeted towards defense spending and the building of a KGB type infrastructure.  And what happens when the government no longer has enough money to pay for pensions?

No, the budget that I have read, when compared to previous budgets, just doesn't pass the sniff test.  Sources of revenue are being invented to cover up the deficits.  And I am a layperson.  Imagine how this looks to professional analysts.  Where is your critical thinking?

Looks like another five year plan to me.


Russia is doing better than some other oil producing states, e. g. Venezuela.  Algeria has spent 40% of its capital reserves over the past few years. 

Meanwhile  China is not engaging in an arms race, avoiding the submarine for submarine mentality.  The Chinese instead focus on economics, and their strategy is to run all of us into the ground.  And China is reaching out to team with the smaller nations of the world. 

Will this work?  Did the CCCP collapse from losing the arms race or because of economic forces? 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on March 20, 2017, 05:49:31 AM

After all of Trump's rhetoric, I'm curious to see what he actually does.  If Trump tries to create a one sided agreement,like we may have gotten away with in the past, I don't think it will work. China has too many ways to strike back.

An interesting factor in this may be that we have an illegal workforce that hard line republicans are attempting to deport.  Shortly we may see if Americans are willing to do those jobs, if illegals actually start leaving/get deported in great numbers. 


China prepares to counter any U.S. trade penalties: sources




China's government has been seeking advice from its think-tanks and policy advisers on how to counter potential trade penalties from U.S. President Donald Trump, getting ready for the worst, even as they hope for business-like negotiations.

The policy advisers believe the Trump administration is most likely to impose higher tariffs on targeted sectors where China has a big surplus with the United States, such as steel and furniture, or on state-owned firms.

China could respond with actions such as finding alternative suppliers of agriculture products or machinery and manufactured goods, while cutting its exports of consumer staples such as mobile phones or laptops, they said.....

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-trade-idUSKBN16R0PW (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-trade-idUSKBN16R0PW)




Fathertime!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on March 20, 2017, 04:13:19 PM
Most certainly Sochi has Khrushchyovka - they just aren't to be found right on the coast..( Go north or South of Sochi - on the train and some have been built in GREAT locations and command 'daft' prices.) They are built in the numerous valleys that run perpendicular to the coast

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchyovka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchyovka)

Thanks for that, moby.  It was more a case of not seeing any in what I considered the city itself.  Despite the metropolitan area supposedly stretching for a hundred kilometres along the Black Sea coast, the central city itself is far smaller, and seemed much more modern.  I would guess, also, that many Krushchyovka in Sochi would have been demolished before the Olympic Games, lest visitors might think that these were still standard housing.  :P
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 20, 2017, 06:49:34 PM
Thanks for that, moby.  It was more a case of not seeing any in what I considered the city itself.  Despite the metropolitan area supposedly stretching for a hundred kilometres along the Black Sea coast, the central city itself is far smaller, and seemed much more modern.  I would guess, also, that many Krushchyovka in Sochi would have been demolished before the Olympic Games, lest visitors might think that these were still standard housing.  :P

The Airport, Olympic games and F1 are actually held in Adler. - 30 Kms to the south of Sochi ..There's plenty of Krushchyovka - but the route from the airport to the Olympic Park - you'd need Binoculars to see them from the window of a chauffeured Maybach ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on March 20, 2017, 07:17:24 PM

Russia is doing better than some other oil producing states, e. g. Venezuela.  Algeria has spent 40% of its capital reserves over the past few years. 

Meanwhile  China is not engaging in an arms race, avoiding the submarine for submarine mentality.  The Chinese instead focus on economics, and their strategy is to run all of us into the ground.  And China is reaching out to team with the smaller nations of the world. 

Will this work?  Did the CCCP collapse from losing the arms race or because of economic forces?

Curious to know what your take is on the Russian reserves.  They were destitute and are now claiming liquidity.  Doesn't that strike you as odd?  What seems to have changed?    The parabolic curve that they were on that was like a plane, out of control, headed for a crash, all of a sudden the government claims to have righted and is flying in the clouds again. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 20, 2017, 09:40:17 PM
Ah--if only Moby was half way across !! :clapping:
BRIDGE IN THE CRIMEA: THE SMALL STORM HAS STARTED TO DESTROY THE DESIGN



These pipes are designed to protect the construction from waves during storms. They are kind of breakwaters, but even the breakwaters have demolished. Following the information of witnesses, not only the pipes, but even the cranes, tractors and a lot of construction material float in the sea:

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/vot-vam-y-most-v-krym-malejshyj-shtorm-nachal-razrushat-konstruktsyyu-vydeo/

Elements of the Kerch bridge covered the entire coast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3ROw5fwbp8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM-ZIDzB_oU
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 21, 2017, 01:58:57 AM
Ah--if only Moby was half way across !! :clapping:
BRIDGE IN THE CRIMEA: THE SMALL STORM HAS STARTED TO DESTROY THE DESIGN

JayH - as the first comment on this video says :" the Ukrainian press will make headlines that a Bridge was falling down  :D - He hasn't heard how readily you lap up such 'news'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyFQ8sfgMiM&list=PLz3bWmc0RJwk5SIPJLEiVRghYUF_E07BQ&index=2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyFQ8sfgMiM&list=PLz3bWmc0RJwk5SIPJLEiVRghYUF_E07BQ&index=2)

It's taken from a series of video blogs about the construction of the bridge.







Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GQBlues on March 21, 2017, 01:27:41 PM
I can't really comment on the rest of Russia other than Novosibirsk. Even then, it would be purely anecdotal based on our close relationship with friends living there who had been coming to LA to visit with us with frequency.

Many of my wife's classmates are actually doing very well. Many had already bought homes, and some actually have flourishing careers. One guy had invested his savings and now owns his own construction/hard flooring center.

Every time any of these guys come for a visit, they are usually ready financially to spend their monies to do everything and anything they can while here. Never shy about springing for their own respective expenses despite the higher exchange rates with the dollar.

One of my wife's male classmate came with his girlfriend presently living in St Pete. She, too..is currently working as a designer and a distributor for a paint company. Apparently none of them have any problems getting their visas, just as my in-laws experienced.

We are told that Novosibirsk had been actively doing a lot of construction and renovations...

I peeked at Russian unemployment rate, and this seem to support their stories...

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/unemployment-rate

It looks pretty steady to me. They even have a higher labor work force per population percentage than the US.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on March 21, 2017, 06:01:32 PM
There is one thing which appears to be lacking in both these places - the old-style Khrushchev apartment blocks, which are the biggest eyesore in virtually every FSU city.  Both have modern residential buildings which look like they were designed by people who know what they're doing, rather than by a committee of apparatchiks with the architectural IQ of a penguin.  Have a look at some of my photos in the Gallery here and you'll see what I mean.

In defense of the Khrushchevkas. Due them millions had allowed separate habitation in postwar II period. People didn't pay for them out of their own pocket. In my opinion, even now, when they've outlived their operational life, they aren't worse than American cardboard houses, which cost a lot of money.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 22, 2017, 03:03:24 PM
The never ending stream of "mysterious" accidents & deaths of Russians via "heart attacks" and jumping out of buildings continues .Amazing how these deaths are never fully explained -- and how the common thread is that all these people are unpalatable at any given time to the regime of Putin and his kleptocrat cronies !

Lawyer for family of Russian whistleblower falls from fourth floor
Hermitage Capital sent a press release stating Gorokhov had been “thrown from the fourth floor of his apartment building” on Tuesday, but did not give any further details. Browder did not respond to an emailed request for further comment.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/22/lawyer-for-family-of-russian-whistleblower-seriously-injured-after-fall
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Yes on March 26, 2017, 01:57:39 AM
Really hate to disappoint the Russian bashers, but the Russian economy will show a positive GDP this year. The rouble was the best performing currency for 2016 (currently down to around 57 from a high of 80 in 2015).and the RTS was up 50% for fiscal year 2016

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-28/here-are-the-best-and-worst-performing-assets-of-2016.

You can also add Kazan and Belgorod to the previous list of cities on the rise, and Moscow is continually putting touches on its renovation. 

Ranching and agriculture are 2 viable emerging industries that had previously been non-existent in Russia. As far as defense spending, Russia will not make the same mistake as the Soviets did; apples and oranges to be honest, but Russia will still need to keep at least moving in step with modern technology.

Consumer spending is at its highest since Russia took back Crimea, foreign debt is at an all-time low, and there is plenty of money left in Russia's reserve funds. There have even been times when the government has replenished the fund during the last 2-3 years.

Ukraine is stilll a failed state because of Ukrainians.

Is Russia out of the woods? No, but, I think that it has turned an important corner.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 26, 2017, 02:18:01 AM
Who are all these Russia bashers?  I read a rather dispassionate view of the economy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 26, 2017, 02:43:16 AM
Quote
Ukraine is stilll a failed state because of Ukrainians.


Well, I wouldn't expect any type of deep analysis from you.  There are many reasons why Ukraine is flailing.  But it is not because of Ukrainians.   What an asinine and simplistic statement.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on March 26, 2017, 02:51:26 AM
Really hate to disappoint the Russian bashers, but the Russian economy will show a positive GDP this year. The rouble was the best performing currency for 2016 (currently down to around 57 from a high of 80 in 2015).and the RTS was up 50% for fiscal year 2016

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-28/here-are-the-best-and-worst-performing-assets-of-2016.

;)

'Yes' ...  It was on the floor and rescued by a oil price increase .... let's not attribute credit to govt policy .

Ranching and agriculture are 2 viable emerging industries that had previously been non-existent in Russia.

Aided by the excuse of 'counter sanctions'  - which are a protectionist excuse.

I'm still smiling about your telling us ( elsewhere ) that I know 'little' - being polite - about knowing about the quality of meat - in Russia - seeing I have a degree in Hotel Management.

At least on here, if you post DAFT - you can read responses to some of your more interesting assertions about life in Russia ..




Consumer spending is at its highest since Russia took back Crimea, foreign debt is at an all-time low, and there is plenty of money left in Russia's reserve funds. There have even been times when the government has replenished the fund during the last 2-3 years.

Taking 'back' what wasn't theirs to take ?  I mean you do KNOW the RF agreed Crimea was an autonomous rep. of Ukraine and signed treaties to protect the nation's integrity ...

Ukraine is stilll a failed state because of Ukrainians.

Certainly, partly true - but they have LOTS of 'help' from it's 'friendly neighbour' - encouraging Ukrainians that they can be 'novorossiyans' whilst upping the criminality of discussing ceding from the RF in Russian media .....

Is Russia out of the woods? No, but, I think that it has turned an important corner.

OK... As I walk the streets in Sochi - 'with all those tourists ' that haven't come BECAUSE of 'away games' in Ukraine ... I'll think of you.

The economy isn't anywhere near back to were it was and OIL/ GAS pricing is the key - not aided by 'away games' in neighbours to divert public opinion


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on March 26, 2017, 08:55:34 AM
Ukraine is stilll a failed state because of Ukrainians.


So Ukrainian should stay under Russia's foot(influence) if they are to be successful? Name one country that's under Russia's influence or allied with Russia that is successful by Western standards.

The rouble was the best performing currency for 2016 (currently down to around 57 from a high of 80 in 2015).and the RTS was up 50% for fiscal year 2016


The rouble lost over 200% of it's value the last few years and recently gained back 50% and you think that is something to brag about? We can pick some years to show the dollar went down and some years or weeks when it went up to show it in a good or bad light. Putin's policies alone have made the rouble depreciate from the time he took the presidency to now. Russia is still an unstable and unpredictable place for foreign investors to send their money to.

foreign debt is at an all-time low, and there is plenty of money left in Russia's reserve funds. There have even been times when the government has replenished the fund during the last 2-3 years.


It's easy to control foreign debt if foreigners don't want to do business with you. Foreign debt isn't always a bad thing. The most prosperous nations in the world have the most foreign debt and those who are struggling have the least foreign debt. For example, Trump probably owes more money to creditors than anybody at this forum but he pays it off better and continues to borrow for his next project. Trump has more debt but he's living better and much more successful than us.

Russia took back Crimea


Is that a good thing? If you gave a bunch of gifts to a woman and later she wanted to leave you, you would take the gifts back with force?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on April 10, 2017, 10:20:25 PM
As a general rule (non approved) corruption increases the further you get away from Moscow.
People playing games making their own empires and thinking no one will notice and they are far too clever to be caught...
We had personal experience of that mentality here and that particular person is now in jail serving quite a long sentence.

There are definitely people employed whose sole purpose is to falsify governmental reports. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 14, 2017, 12:36:47 AM
Kerch bridge still cursed. A new misfortune befell construction of the century by the Russian Federation.

In the area of ​​the village of Livadia sank a Russian floating crane in the occupied Crimea, which followed in the port of Kerch, the press service of EMERCOM of Russia. "On board were eight crew members. Five people raised on board the tug. The search for the three men continued, "- noted in the department. Thus, according to the source, two people drowned when towing floating crane Kerch Strait.

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/kerchenskyj-most-taky-proklyat-novoe-neschaste-postyglo-strojku-veka-ot-rf-opublykovano-vydeo/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syGvtbGB8l4
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 16, 2017, 04:04:11 PM
The irony here is that the more aggressively Putin & the Kremlin promotes their "Russian World" the more it is accelerating it's demise !

Russian language use in post-Soviet space declining precipitously

The Euromonitor group, using UN and national data sets, reports that the number of people using Russian in the post-Soviet states has declined by ten percent or more since 1994, a decline that reflects the re-orientation of these nations away from Moscow and puts paid to Vladimir Putin’s efforts to base his “Russian world” on the Russian language.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/04/15/russian-language-use-in-post-soviet-space-declining-precipitously-euromaidan-press/

In a commentary on the Apostrophe portal today, the director of Kyiv’s Institute of National Remembrance says that Ukrainian is the only state language in Ukraine and that “there are no people in Ukraine who do not understand [it].”

As for the use of English, he continues, “this is testimony to the openness of Ukraine to the world because it is one of the main world languages” and is a way to make Ukrainian closer to Europe and to those of its residents “who do not understand Ukrainian.”


And as for the dropping of Russian, this is part and parcel of the broader need Ukrainians feel for dispensing with “the Soviet-imperial heritage.” Some people thought that doing this or renaming streets, cities and villages in Ukraine could lead “almost to a civil war, but nothing of the kind happened.”
http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/10/13/ukrainian-becoming-de-facto-the-language-of-ukraine-viatrovych-says-euromaidan-press/

Related:
Ukrainian becoming de facto the language of Ukraine, Viatrovich says
Russian language knowledge declining precipitously in the world and even in Russia, Matviyenko says
Russia’s war against the Ukrainian language
A short guide to the linguicide of the Ukrainian language | Infographics
Russia ‘for first time in its history’ has lost its monopoly on the Russian language, Zhadan says
Russia’s actions in occupied Crimea show how Moscow plans to destroy non-Russian languages in Russia itself
Russian language not united or unifying even inside Russian Federation
Babchenko: Putin, not Poroshenko, has destroyed future of Russian language in Ukraine
Seven things Russians need to understand about their country and themselves now
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 16, 2017, 04:21:15 PM

They should close it permanently -- until Russia can learn to behave again.

Turkey closed the Bosporus for Russian fleet

Starting today, and for an indefinite period Bosphorus closed for the passage of Russian warships and civil ships carrying military cargo.

http://uc.od.ua/news/politic/1193047
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on April 16, 2017, 10:17:11 PM


Turkey closed the Bosporus for Russian fleet



'Strange' ...Nothing about this is mentioned on RU News, or Euronews, or the BBC ... heck - not even Turkish News ....

ANOTHER example of JayH shooting himself in the foot ? REALLY, JayH - if you want your 'news' to be read - do check it's veracity .....

HINT :  Closing the Bosphorus would be an act of war .... based on the Treaty  concerning it's usage ....

Perhaps, JayH is 'correct' - as I've never heard of the 'bosporos' - may be the Turks closed THAT ;)


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 17, 2017, 08:00:04 AM
Even the comments in the article point out that it is fake news. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 10, 2017, 11:28:35 AM
A curious thing happened to me over the weekend.  I was talking global economics with my son.  We were talking about Russia and its suddenly liquid state.  I said that I thought that the government was playing with the numbers. (What government in power doesn't?)

My son, who speaks fluent mandarin, and regularly reads from the Chinese media corrected me.  He said that I should remember the Russian/Chinese oil deal (ongoing and most recently updated in 2016).  In the Chinese papers he said that there are reports that China is paying 40% of the Brent Crude Price.

Makes sense.  Russia needs liquidity.  China is always looking out for a good deal and has the funds.  Essentially, Russia is trading natural resources until the price of oil climbs back to a level whereby Russia is able to sell on the open market.  Is Russia losing money?  Probably.  But look at the effect such a trade off would have.  By virtue of China being the recipient of low cost oil, they would not be as belligerent a neighbor.   And Russia keeps workers working and infrastructure in place.

This would be a workable solution for a few years.  Reminds me of workers in California shipping their laundry to china back in the 1850s.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 10, 2017, 08:26:13 PM
Actually--it will be good news  !
Vladimir Putin’s regime, which has always been authoritarian and kleptocratic, nonetheless has evolved over the course of the last 18 years through four stages and now is entering its fifth and final one, according to Moscow commentator Igor Yakovenko.

Putin regime now entering its fifth and final phase, Yakovenko says
In short, Putin’s Russia is in its fifth and final stage. When it will end is as yet unclear, but that it will end is certain because in so many ways, Putin’s regime recalls that of the Soviets in the 1970s and 1980s, a time when what propagandists said and what people saw diverged so much that the regime became unsupportable.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/05/10/putin-regime-now-entering-its-fifth-and-final-phase-yakovenko-says-euromaidan-press/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on May 18, 2017, 01:41:35 PM

The midget meglomaniac declares that the stae can take land and real estate thru the FSB.   :cluebat:


Next he'll declare himself Czar for life.   :wallbash:


http://uawire.org/news/putin-allowed-the-fsb-to-seize-the-land-for-state-needs#
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 02, 2017, 12:10:55 AM
Some interesting byproducts of the general incompetence that Trump is showing. The abdication from being the leader of the free world and turning America into a land of frightened little cowards as America under Trump seeks to ignore the obligations all types of treaties and agreements around the world -- and all for what-- some ridiculous empty comments made in an election campaign-- that he has no problem not honouring when it suits him !
Now you ask--how is that bad news for Russia -- apart  from the intensity of the investigation underway -- a piece of news that some lauded here back a few years ago.
The Chinese have backed out of the deal to buy Russian gas -- and the Russians have spent $billions to build a pipeline to carry that gas into China.Some of us here made the point that the Chinese would play the Russians -- and so-it has happened !!

Now you ask-- what has that got to do with Trump?
Ok--it goes like this  -- Trump's America is busy burning ALL it's traditional allies around the world  -- so what do the Chinese see? The answer --opportunity - a place for a bright prospering economy to fill the void as a cornerstone and leader.

Now you ask -- why is that bad news for Russia ?
The Chinese see the current regime in Russia as bad for business -- as well as a potential threat to Chines ambitions to expand China into the mineral rich eastern Russia -which China has some historical claims over. Russia's aggression in invading Ukraine was not looked on favourably by China-- and Russian attempts to unsettle Europe not good.

The last thing China would allow to happen to Europe just as it has had a gift of an opportunity presented to it is to allow Russia to spoil it !  So--very bad new news for Russia !!

Part of a plan the Chinese started back in 2005  was to make the Yuan the centrepiece of world currency -- and stability is a key point.That economic plan hatched back then had a 2025 target -- and until the recent correction in the Chinese economy they were well ahead of schedule on many key pointers.Now that the world is going to turn away from Trump's America --it is an incredible opportunity that the Chinese could never have dreamed of !
Chinese success -- will leave no room for America -even after Trump is gone -be that soon or in the longer term-- the damage is done. America has shown itself to be  unreliable -- and Americans will pay the price for Trump and his stupid ignorance.

And for Russia-- at a time when it can least afford it-- it has a multi $billion pipeline white elephant on it's hands,no income from selling that gas to prop up it's economy, and China about to start standing over it!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on June 02, 2017, 08:37:17 AM
I know very little about this, but will just throw this out for discussion purposes as I know others here have more facts.

I thought China helped pay for the pipeline, and I think China is buying the gas even if at discount prices.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 05, 2017, 02:58:29 AM

The Chinese have backed out of the deal to buy Russian gas -- and the Russians have spent $billions to build a pipeline to carry that gas into China.Some of us here made the point that the Chinese would play the Russians -- and so-it has happened !!


Could you supply  some links(s) to this news ... I was thinking the Chinese lent Russia the money to build the pipe-line..


 Russia's aggression in invading Ukraine was not looked on favourably by China-- and Russian attempts to unsettle Europe not good.

Remind us how China showed it's 'displeasure' at the UN ? Hint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_68/262 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_68/262)

China abstained.... She DID NOT support Ukraine's motion ...

 

The last thing China would allow to happen to Europe just as it has had a gift of an opportunity presented to it is to allow Russia to spoil it !  So--very bad new news for Russia !! 

JayH

While you continue to present you 'case' in this lazy, ill-researched fashion, it's more 'egg on your face' rather than 'bad news' ... for the Kremlin.



And for Russia-- at a time when it can least afford it-- it has a multi $billion pipeline white elephant on it's hands,no income from selling that gas to prop up it's economy, and China about to start standing over it!


A 'white elephant' sponsored BY the Chinese who are able to by gas from other sources for less... e,g Turkmenistan

If you had spoke of the need for oil to be 80USD/ barrel to make this project profitable - you'd have been barking up the right tree.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 05, 2017, 03:35:20 AM
You need to make up your mind on links -- you run off whining about links and now you want them !! :deadhorse:

The bones of my post above will appear over time .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 05, 2017, 04:34:14 AM
You need to make up your mind on links -- you run off whining about links and now you want them !! :deadhorse:


BS .. you are being constantly warned re riposting substantial amount of copyright - with confusion as to what is your 'work' and were the copy and paste starts / stops - and WELL you know it ...



The bones of my post above will appear over time .


In your own time - lest any one might think you've been posting daft, again

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 05, 2017, 10:00:59 AM
Just a quick thought on this topic - tailed off from other topics we have discussed:

The internal Chinese newspapers claim that the Russians are selling oil wholesale to the Chinese and this is the reason that Russia's foreign currency woes have receded.  The figures that are being reported in these papers are around 50% cash on the barrel head, so to speak.  What I am saying is that China is paying Russia approximately 50% of the Brent Crude Price for the oil it receives from Russia.

We talked, a couple of months ago, about how Russia is balancing its budget?  Well, this would be a good direction to investigate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 05, 2017, 10:17:11 PM
If that's the case, the with Brent oil being $49.25 currently and Russian oil costing less than Brent by a few bucks, then Russia must figure that they're styling selling it at under $25 USD.   :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 06, 2017, 07:57:36 PM
Hedge funds are dropping the ruble. Bad news..  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


http://uawire.org/news/media-hedge-funds-continue-to-dump-russian-rubles
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 07, 2017, 03:05:08 AM
Hedge funds are dropping the ruble. Bad news..  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


http://uawire.org/news/media-hedge-funds-continue-to-dump-russian-rubles

Hardly 'bad' news for Russians ..

Interest rates are forecast to drop - which has maintained a falsely high interest in the oil-price related currency

I - for one will be please if the Rouble weakens and interest rates are dropping ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 07, 2017, 08:50:43 AM
Mike was pointing out something of interest.  The Ruble had already lost half its value in the last few years.  It was trading around 28 to the US Dollar, it is now trading around 56.  I note that there were periods of time where Russian liquidity was questioned when the Ruble hit 80 to the US Dollar.    But the Russians have used artificial means to prop it up, gaining time in Russia's fight to throw off limitations on banking and sanctions against the top Russian government officials and some export/import relationships. 

Those who remember will also point out that Russia sanctioned Western Goods - Remember that hill of cheese bulldozed?  Simply put, the Russians were hoping international relations would improve prior to the effects of these short term fixes eroding.  Perhaps we will see  the true economy, based on sanctions, once again demonstrate weakness.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 07, 2017, 09:04:54 AM
And more that the Russians seem to have not noticed. 3 million more living below the poverty line while others just manage to scrape by.

Russians do not connect crisis with occupation of Crimea
"Russians for some reason there is no correlation between the seizure of the Crimea and the deterioration of the standard of living. Most Russians do not see this connection, it's just the way propaganda works, that people do not understand this link," Nekrasov said."

http://qha.com.ua/en/economics/russians-do-not-connect-crisis-with-occupation-of-crimea/140925/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 07, 2017, 09:57:45 AM
More and more this is apparent to the world.. 

Kasparov Says Putin Waging 'War Against The Free World,' But Is Tasting Failure For First Time.

"But in recent weeks, it has also become clear that Western democracies have understood that such actions present a serious threat to the functioning of democratic institutions in the free world. Putin has begun to encounter organized resistance and failure for the first time."

http://www.rferl.org/a/russia-kasparov-putin-waging-war-free-world-failure/28533959.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 07, 2017, 10:11:41 AM
Sorry about the text size. That WYSIWYG tick box on my setting keeps changing by itself.  :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 07, 2017, 11:32:49 PM
Russians do not connect crisis with occupation of Crimea


And why WOULD they ? - Even though it is suggested by their own govt owned/ mates of govt owned news channels..the this is a dirty western tactic'

FACT:  The western sanctions were not targeted at 'man in the street'

Jone, it must surely be clear that the 'counter sanctions' were a form of protectionism - to allow RU based producers to expand .... this was never a short-term plan.... I don't think the Kremlin cares about 'improved' relations with the west...  It just needs the people to be pleased Crimea is back and believe the economy issues are a combination of western sanctions and the weak oil prices  - rather than incompetence / complacency and not a little high end corruption.

The cheese being buried was Irish Cheddar  - apparently .... 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 07, 2017, 11:33:54 PM
Sorry about the text size. That WYSIWYG tick box on my setting keeps changing by itself.  :wallbash:

Yes, WHY is that ?  Are you using Google Chrome ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 08, 2017, 09:35:09 AM

And why WOULD they ? - Even though it is suggested by their own govt owned/ mates of govt owned news channels..the this is a dirty western tactic'

FACT:  The western sanctions were not targeted at 'man in the street'

Jone, it must surely be clear that the 'counter sanctions' were a form of protectionism - to allow RU based producers to expand .... this was never a short-term plan.... I don't think the Kremlin cares about 'improved' relations with the west...  It just needs the people to be pleased Crimea is back and believe the economy issues are a combination of western sanctions and the weak oil prices  - rather than incompetence / complacency and not a little high end corruption.

The cheese being buried was Irish Cheddar  - apparently ....

I have no doubt that the Counter Sanctions were put in place as you described.   But you are daft if you believe that Russia does not care if sanctions are lifted.  The sanctions against Russia do not share the same protectionist byplay.  Instead they are costing Russia real money in trade.  As for the cheese, Russia makes a very poor tasting cheese to replace that which was removed from shelves.  It is white and sickly looking.  And, for the most part, now the only cheese consumers can buy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 08, 2017, 10:09:25 AM
Yes  Moby I'm using Chrome.


Here's a snippet blatantly swiped from elsewhere regarding conditions in Krym that you may find interesting.

"I'm told that in Sevastopol the mood is less buoyant than when I previously enquired. Unemployment is significant and small business remains hampered by difficult financial transacting. Infact it's alleged that a businessman had to fly to Germany with a suitcase of USD in order to buy necessary raw materials that would then have to be shipped by an indirect route back to Crimea resulting from western sanctions. This may be one reason why some product prices are said to be almost twice that of Russia and perhaps three or more times more expensive than in Ukraine.

I was told about an overheard street conversation between two male pensioners in Sevastopol discussing the rising cost of living there. The better dressed man who was believed to be a former Russian military officer asked the other "how much is your pension?" He replied "14000 Rubles per month". "How can you live on that?" the other man asked, and he replied "I only exist and furthermore I have received a demand that soon I will have to start paying 300 Rubles per month for the outside of my apartment block maintenance in addition to high gas, electricity and water charges".

I asked my contact if there were signs of infrastructure neglect there. I was told that the city centre was looking dirtier than I would remember it. Many buildings were starting to show signs of neglect. That the flower gardens that I would have remembered in my last pre annexation visit were less floral than before. I was told that there are many new arrivals of rich Russians into Sevastopol. They are not moving into the older buildings but into newly built "luxury" apartment blocks. These new apartments are alleged to be of economical structures with thinner walls than the older buildings. In consequence any altercations or intense intimate relations can be overheard by neighbours alongside, underneath, or above that apartment.

I asked if people were coming to the conclusion that life under Putin and his Kremlin was worse than under Yanukovych's Ukraine. It was said that people there must know that in fact life is now worse and not showing signs of improvement but that it was for many a difficult admission and in any case unwise to voice."
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 08, 2017, 02:05:30 PM
you are daft if you believe that Russia does not care if sanctions are lifted. 

Oh, for sure the Kremlin care - as do some of the crony Oligarchs benefiting by association - but money has a way of finding a way around sanctions ...Probably via Cyprus or similar..Cyprus banks have benefited

.  As for the cheese, Russia makes a very poor tasting cheese to replace that which was removed from shelves.  It is white and sickly looking.  And, for the most part, now the only cheese consumers can buy.

 :D You are preaching to the 'converted'

They also make really good Cheddar .. it is the right yellow colour - it LOOKS like Cheddar - but has all the taste of plastic

Feta, in Greek salad looks OK until you taste it and it is like cream cheese - soggy and tastes like cottage cheese

The locals in Sochi use Georgian cheeses which are tasty and powerful flavours and they claim Belarus cheese is good - it's probably European - as the border is open to BL




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: The Natural on June 10, 2017, 02:29:26 PM
MIL has come here to us in Norway and will be here for 2 months +.
So I made this joke about hanging on for your dear life while riding the Marshrutka in Kerch (Crimea).
It however turned out to be a joke about the past, as the RUSSIANS has repaired all the roads there already  :D

So maybe not the best thread to put it here, good news for Russia and bad news for the west and 90% on here, hehe.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 10, 2017, 05:01:24 PM
Why would the improvement of anyone's life be bad news for the West or 90% of posters here?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on June 10, 2017, 11:30:26 PM
I could post a hundred  links a day from unhappy Crimeans --over a lot of issues. And many more again from Russian tourists who are unhappy.

“Мы вас вечно кормить не собираемся!” Туристы из России обозлились на крымчан


In social networks citizens of Russia, who came to rest in the occupied Crimea, the peninsula state rebelled, triggering the anger of local residents.
Correspondence is available to users of social network "VKontakte".

"We finally came to rest in the Crimea! Very excited, super weather, the nature of the divine. Everyone knows that the last few years in Russia, the crisis, and many say, they say it is because of the Crimea. As if there was not, but the story of that funding regions is reduced due to the crazy influences in Crimea, heard often. And all would do if we did not come here. Where do crazy money? You what? Crimeans, we have not ever going to feed! Finally, grasp for the mind! 3 years in Russia, and the roads in the city worse than before, food prices are high, the hotel rude, there was no infrastructure and no ", - said the user. After his words in social networks began to argue with the Crimean Russians. Recent rebelled service in Crimea.

 "Anonymous" Brave "What arrogance ?! they feed us! To feed themselves, to not go to the Crimea, but somewhere far away! And we will somehow feed without ungrateful guests ", - said a local.

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/my-vas-vechno-kormyt-ne-sobyraemsya-turysty-yz-rossyy-obozlylys-na-krymchan/

Just a few pieces of reality

1. Sevastopol. Occupants are going to throw out on the street more than 1,000 people with their families. Russian Defense Ministry demanded Sevreestra stop the registration of land rights on the former military town, on the site where for decades there are residential houses, cottages, roads and communications. Back in 2015 the occupiers issued a secret order "for the donation of the land of former military camps in the property of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation", which is now used for the extraction of property from the former military, who mostly live in the area http://twitter.com/CrimeaUA1/status / 873122353105981440 (screen and link).

2. Traitor Alexander Talipov informs us of the progress "genplanovoy revolution" in Sevastopol. The occupiers have collected some secret meeting, about which people have learned, and cornered at the hearing. It made more than 10 thousand amendments, but cotton requires a master plan to abolish altogether. Discontent is growing http://twitter.com/KrimRt/status/872867078247677953 (picture-screen).

3. Occupants Kerch banned kommunyaki conduct anti-corruption rally, since an attack on the foundations of Russian statehood. Commies in response threatened to picket. Strong move))) http://kerch.fm/2017/06/09/administraciya-kerchi-ne-razreshila-kommunistam-provodit-antikorrupcionnyy-miting.html

4. In the Kerch for the debts of the invaders to de-energize the largest municipal enterprise "Arshintsevo", which serves one-third of the city. Now working from the generator. The invaders promised that from June 1, will disable the debtors from electricity and water. Started ... http://ru.krymr.com/a/news/28535905.html

5. vatnitsa come in large numbers from the taxi driver had heard the truth about life under occupation: "In Yalta, Alushta went by taxi. The taxi driver made a whole brain. Poor in Russia, everybody steals, no funding, Aksenov - so, someone else out there - and-so. They knew nothing would not have moved. 3:00 back and forth moaning as all bad. Unpleasant ... Crimeans, right? ". No, it's much worse!

http://twitter.com/KrimRt/status/872870020182933505 (screen).

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/ponaehavshaya-vatn-tsa-naslushalas-pravdy-o-zhyzny-v-okkupatsyy-taksyst-ves-mozg-vynes-ploho-v-rossyy-vse-voruyut-znaly-by-ny-za-chto-ne-pereshly-by-krymskyj-banderivets/



"Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich," - residents Alupka begging Putin to do so, as the "Bandera"

Residents Alupka occupied by Russian troops in Crimea asked President Vladimir Putin to return to their city of the old order. This applies in particular local authorities and access to parks. This is stated in a video released on YouTube, transmit Patriots Ukraine . In the video one of the city zhytelok, referring to Putin, said that Alupka dies. "Please reconsider the administrative division of the city of Yalta, Alupka restore local government, city council budget, and services that ensure the normal functioning of the city," - she said.

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/skrepy-tysnut-uvazhaemyj-vladymyr-vladymyrovych-meshkantsi-alupky-blagayut-putina-zrobyty-tak-yak-bulo-za-bander/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfrNehJIeME

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 11, 2017, 01:11:16 AM
More JayH amateur hour cut and paste - Because you don't understand what you are 'sharing' with us ...you've managed to duplicate copy and pastes - whole paragraphs

The residents of Alupka aren't asking to be returned to Ukraine .... 


For sure,  many Russian families  - who aren't even allowed to holiday outside Russia, Belarus, etc. ( police, many civil servants, firemen, etc.,) and who have seen how service should be - are moaning about service/ infrastructure .... and not just in Crimea

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 11, 2017, 04:41:00 PM
It seems that China has rejected the ideas as well as the proposed gas pipelines from Russian Siberia.  That'll put a frown in Vlad the bad's slimy face.  He has been counting on the additional income from the gas sales. Even with the massive discounts for a new market he wanted the hard currentcy to prop up a failing state.
Use your translator..

China rejected the new gas contracts with Russia: Reuters agency learned of the decision of Beijing, which is shocking Putin.
The much-touted Russian gas turn toward China with increasing gas supplies to the east risks turning a grand failure for Putin.

читайте подробнее на сайте "УСН 1492": http://ru.1492news.com/news/43579_1497172090



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 11, 2017, 08:09:07 PM
What happened to the 'old' Russian oil clients?  Oh, they all turned elsewhere to get their oil because Putin proved to be somewhat undependable.  Undependable meaning he was using oil to threaten Ukraine and has been known to play with the price of oil, depending on what country is currently in favor with Russia.

Makes people not want to do business with you.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 12, 2017, 02:14:37 PM
Later this week Putler will be hosting his annual call in show complete with carefully selected questions from the unwashed masses  scattered across Russia.

"Making Russia Great Again"
'And Putin will explain, in his trademark pithy way, how he is making Russia great again.

But one has to wonder, how much more of this success can the Russian people take?'   :wallbash: :wallbash:

http://www.rferl.org/a/daily-vertical-transcript-making-russia-great-again/28542216.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 13, 2017, 12:36:37 AM
It seems that Russia has bad.. (I know that's a shocker for somme here)  :rolleyes: 

 U.S. Senators reach bipartisan deal on bill to increase sanctions on Russia
 
  U.S. senators have announced a bipartisan agreement on legislation to impose new sanctions on Russia over human rights abuses, for arming Syria, and for allegedly meddling in the U.S. presidential election,

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1972096-rfe-rl-us-senators-reach-bipartisan-deal-on-bill-to-increase-sanctions-on-russia.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 13, 2017, 02:16:28 PM
Sanctions against doing business in the United States will cripple the Russian economy.  After all, Russia does most of its foreign trade with the US.   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 13, 2017, 02:29:53 PM
Every little bit helps the cause!  :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 13, 2017, 02:46:56 PM
Reuters has found out why 5 Russian "diplomats" were kicked out of Moldova last month. It seems they were caught recruiting fighters to train in Russia to fight in Ukraine.

They must be running out of homeboys that want to invade a neighbor.  :rolleyes:

Russian diplomats expelled from Moldova recruited fighters – Reuters
Moldovan intelligence believes five Russian diplomats expelled from Moldova last month were spies who were recruiting fighters for the Moscow-backed insurgency in neighboring Ukraine

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-moldova-russia-expulsions-idUSKBN1941DA
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 15, 2017, 11:48:51 AM
Putler's nationwide call in show went south from the planned script when questions came in he didn't expect!  :rolleyes:

"Some uncomfortable questions sneak onto Putin's carefully managed telethon"

Here are a few of the ones he got.  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

1. Putin, do you really think the people believe in this circus with phony questions?

2.When you say “we don’t betray our own,” does that apply to kleptocrats and corrupt officials?

3.When will you step down?

http://meduza.io/en/shapito/2017/06/15/some-uncomfortable-questions-sneak-onto-putin-s-carefully-managed-telethon
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 15, 2017, 03:59:33 PM
And the EU is still unhappy with Herr Putler's invasion of Ukraine,  "The EU Foreign Affairs Council will extend sanctions against Russia for the illegal annexation of Crimea and Sevastopol for one year until June 23, 2018"

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/429157.html

 The dwarf should be getting a hint by now that the rest of the world doesn't approve of his foreign policy dealing with neighboring countries.  :rolleyes:   But then again maybe he'll change his mind after a palace coup?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 15, 2017, 04:16:21 PM
I do not fear Putin being replaced.  I fear who might replace him.

Better the devil you know ...... (maybe). 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 19, 2017, 10:22:36 AM
Sales of discounted vacation packages to Krym have dropped once again. It's down 1/3 over last years dismal numbers. It's been declining since the Russian invasion, but it seems to be increasing. Prices have gone up and Russians are going elsewhere.  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

http://themoscowtimes.com/news/sales-of-crimea-vacation-deals-fall-by-almost-third-58219

Views of webcams show deserted beaches compared to pre-invasion times.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 19, 2017, 10:34:01 AM
That's because Russians can afford to go abroad, or go to Sochi, which is a better destination with more amenities.  Ukrainians, for the most part, could not afford travel abroad.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 19, 2017, 11:34:48 AM
Or it could be that because of the all time high % of poverty in Russia..   Almost 20 million, fewer can afford any vacation time.  :rolleyes:

From a year ago, Russian tourism to Turkey dropped 10 fold. Of course the partial reason is that Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet.

http://www.rbth.com/international/2016/05/05/the-number-of-russian-tourists-to-turkey-decreases-tenfold_590713

Also from a year ago,"In Russia, the sales of tours to foreign countries during the summer season have decreased by 25-30% compared to last year according to the Association of Russian tour operators (ATOR). Moreover, some tour agents are experiencing a fall in bookings of almost 50%. Domestic Russian tourism seems to have entered the troubled waters.

 http://www.tourism-review.com/russian-tourism-focuses-on-domestic-tours-news5102#M0rsfIHxrv6HPMC0.99
 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 19, 2017, 11:41:21 AM
GDP increased slightly in Russia in 2016.


Turkey offers better hotels and better packages than Crimea.  I think that's the deciding factor, not poverty.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 19, 2017, 11:44:22 AM
Possibly you're right Boe. But then again there's the possibly that I am right.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 19, 2017, 11:55:01 AM
I feel sorry for any holiday makers in Crimea or Sochi, now.. The weather is 'damp' :)









Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 20, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
President Poroshenko met with President Trump today and received strong assurances of support "in terms of sovereignty, territorial integrity and the independence of our state,"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-trump-poroshenko-idUSKBN19B2BX

Hopefully that will include lethal hardware!  :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 20, 2017, 04:46:14 PM
Things must be getting grim in Russia's distant regions. Even with the deficit spending slashed 90%!

1 in five families have enough money for more than food. Yet Putler manages to continue with his rebuilding of the Soviet empire

"According to Standard & Poor’s, a quarter of Russia’s regions are close to bankruptcy and less than a quarter are showing signs of industrial growth, a third growth in agriculture, just over a third in consumer services, just under half in construction, and 61 percent in retail trade."


http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/06/20/russian-regions-in-deep-trouble-in-most-only-one-household-in-five-has-money-for-more-than-food-euromaidan-press/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 21, 2017, 10:11:36 AM
Yesterday after the meeting with President Poroshenko the US imposed yet more new sanctions on Russia!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


http://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/world/europe/united-states-sanctions-russia-ukraine.html?smid=fb-share
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 21, 2017, 03:49:18 PM
Here's an interesting video showing the before and after of Krym..


http://www.facebook.com/life.life.ua/videos/256793918057986/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 22, 2017, 02:50:49 AM
Here's an interesting video showing the before and after of Krym..




Well, what was interesting for me is that it mentioned that Crimea was 'worse' than Abkhazia( which is Russia's Kosovo - which the west say is part of Georgia...)  which is stunningly beautiful..

I've seen western journals do such 'Sochi has gone downhill' bollox - since the Olympics and watch such videos with a large grain of salt

Whilst I'm sure Crimea is a back-water - just as intended by Ukraine - the bridges ( if they don't fall down!) will improve things ..after all - many civil servants who once went to Turkey, Thailand, etc., can only go to Crimea, Anapa, Gelendzhik or Sochi, for   Summer sea-side breaks...

BTW .. if you can understand Russian - there are live web cams for Crimea ..  Sochi beaches look livelier
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 22, 2017, 11:02:37 AM

Whilst I'm sure Crimea is a back-water - just as intended by Ukraine -

But the 'before' images show what it was like before the invasion. Lively and  flourishing, unlike the situation today.  Right off the top of my head I'd say Russia has tossed it into the "backwater' position not Ukraine.  :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 22, 2017, 11:30:20 AM
But the 'before' images show what it was like before the invasion. Lively and  flourishing, unlike the situation today.  Right off the top of my head I'd say Russia has tossed it into the "backwater' position not Ukraine.  :rolleyes:

Mike,

In reading these notes of yours, I'm reminded of something FDR said about Stalin and Churchill. He said, Churchill runs around worrying about the little things - like a piece of land that would increase his empire.  Stalin worries about the big things - like winning the war. 

In my mind, Putin is trying to win the little things.  But he does not invest in his infrastructure to support those acquisitions.  The bridge from Kerch, while desirable, will only provide traffic from Russia.  As long as the sanctions are in place there won't be any flights to Crimea from European countries, there will not be a vital economy, and there will not be the tourist base in the summer to provide holdover income for the rest of the year and make the Crimean economy work.

Putin is playing with a busted flush.   He has alienated those who would do the most trade with him.  His only true satellite state, at this time, appears to be Armenia.  His attempt at creating a trading group has failed.  His activity in Ukraine was a direct intervention, intended to overthrow the current Ukrainian government.  Instead, too many Ukrainians have returned from the fronts in caskets.  And a generation of Ukrainians will NEVER trust the Russian government.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 22, 2017, 10:26:02 PM
But the 'before' images show what it was like before the invasion. Lively and  flourishing, unlike the situation today.  Right off the top of my head I'd say Russia has tossed it into the "backwater' position not Ukraine.  :rolleyes:

It was a backwater in Soviet times and after independence as well. The sanctions hurt Crimea because a lot of cruise ships stopped there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 22, 2017, 10:45:36 PM
It's a much poorer backwater now that it's been in the past!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 22, 2017, 10:58:58 PM
Before the invasion, Crimea's GDP was 30% below Ukraine's national average, and Ukraine's GDP was then 23% lower than Russia's.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2017, 12:07:32 AM
But the 'before' images show what it was like before the invasion. Lively and  flourishing, unlike the situation today.  Right off the top of my head I'd say Russia has tossed it into the "backwater' position not Ukraine.  :rolleyes:

Lively, for sure ... more tourists ..but I visited Crimea BEFORE 2014 and I can't say it was a place that hadn't serious investment issues.... it was quite run down, before.

Ukraine - reacted to the Russian takeover by cutting off infrastructure.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 23, 2017, 12:30:30 AM
Before the invasion, Crimea's GDP was 30% below Ukraine's national average, and Ukraine's GDP was then 23% lower than Russia's.

 And what is it now?  70% below Ukraine and 50% lower than Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 23, 2017, 12:32:42 AM

Ukraine - reacted to the Russian takeover by cutting off infrastructure.

After there wasn't any payment for the services..   Ukraine continued to supply electricity and water for quite some time after the invasion.


 A partial truth is the same as a lie.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2017, 06:08:42 AM
And what is it now?  70% below Ukraine and 50% lower than Russia?

Whatever it is now, one can expect a vast improvement when ( or in your case - if ) the bridges even get built...   Let us know when there are protests to be re-joined with Ukraine ...

After there wasn't any payment for the services..   Ukraine continued to supply electricity and water for quite some time after the invasion.


 A partial truth is the same as a lie.


Quite...  So, you are now saying the lines that were blown up was the method by which Ukraine ' turned off' the electricity ? ...

I seem to remember Ukraine didn't pay it's gas bills..


As it is truth you seek..  By May 2014 Ukraine had reduuced the flow from the Dnieper to Crimea from 88 plus cu metres / sec to FOUR.

I've seen these games played in Cyprus...with the 'Greek side' supplying the Turkish side electricity without payment for years..They there was a big explosion in the 'south' and the 'north' helped out ...

The South side had the reservoirs for water and the north side ran the sewage treatment plant.....  If the south cut off the electric - the city started to have hygiene issues..  they had to work these things through

Now the 'north' has a pipeline of water from  Turkey and there may be oil / gas in large quantities....  once again, they will have to work it out

Ukraine cutting off the water / electric was a hardship which only proved to Crimeans they were correct to 'leave' Ukraine .... not the smartest move....  Soon Russia will be supplying all the things Ukraine supplied and Crimeans won't forget Kyiv's attitude.

Cutting them off was not how to win over hearts and minds if the becoming part of the RF turns out not to have been such a smart move....

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 23, 2017, 07:09:32 AM
I have zero issue with Ukraine cutting water to Crimea.


The Soviets diverted water from the Dnieper.   Crimea was always arid.


Given Russian backed terrorists in Donbas have stopped the flow of coal, a primary source of electricity and in some cases, heating in Ukraine, and the Russians have disrupted the flow of gas, why should Ukraine supply a resource that is needed - water - to a region the Russians have invaded and taken by force?   Same with electricity - it is now in short supply within Ukraine at times, so there is no reason for Ukraine to subsidize Crimeans with electricity, particularly not when whole villages in Western Ukraine are almost dark, and night lighting is turned off in Kyiv to save electricity.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2017, 08:51:22 AM
I have zero issue with Ukraine cutting water to Crimea.


The Soviets diverted water from the Dnieper.   Crimea was always arid.


Given Russian backed terrorists in Donbas have stopped the flow of coal, a primary source of electricity and in some cases, heating in Ukraine, and the Russians have disrupted the flow of gas, why should Ukraine supply a resource that is needed - water - to a region the Russians have invaded and taken by force?   Same with electricity - it is now in short supply within Ukraine at times, so there is no reason for Ukraine to subsidize Crimeans with electricity, particularly not when whole villages in Western Ukraine are almost dark, and night lighting is turned off in Kyiv to save electricity.

Your points are well made and noted, Experience has taught me in Cyprus that sometimes having the upper hand or using natural resource access - or lack of it - as a lever  - can end up biting you in the future

It is 43 years since the Turkish Army landed in the 'north' of the island - The Turkish speaking Cypriots call it a peace movement and the Greek Cypriots call it an invasion - they only reached an agreement allowing GCs to visit the north in 2003..

I don't see anything being different with Crimea or Donbas ((



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 23, 2017, 09:31:31 AM
Crimea is not coming back, and Ukraine would be best to negotiate for reparations.


Donbas can decide what it wants - if it is to be independent or part of Russia, fine, but no trade, no representation in Kyiv, restricted travel.  Let them rot or be supported economically by Russia.  Its primary industry (coal) is a dying one.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2017, 11:04:24 AM
Crimea is not coming back, and Ukraine would be best to negotiate for reparations.

That's my viewpoint - but it doesn't mean we should drop sanctions -  I was at a Master's Degree Award ceremony today at a Russian Uni and one of the students was introduced as being from the new Russian Region of Crimea ... I was sat with Finnish people - who still smart about Karelia and our eyes glazed over ...

Donbas can decide what it wants - if it is to be independent or part of Russia, fine, but no trade, no representation in Kyiv, restricted travel.  Let them rot or be supported economically by Russia.  Its primary industry (coal) is a dying one.

Again, probably the best attitude - if a pragmatist - but the way VVP speaks about the 'territory known as Ukraine - he may not be finished with de-stabilising
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 23, 2017, 11:15:23 AM


Quite...  So, you are now saying the lines that were blown up was the method by which Ukraine ' turned off' the electricity ? ...

I seem to remember Ukraine didn't pay it's gas bills..

You must have missed  the court case that recently overturned the gas contract.  Sweden IIRC showing that the 'take or pay anyway' wasn't kosher.

Why should Ukraine or anyone supply needed services to help the enemy conduct business? Since Russia did the invading, they should have planned for this ahead of time knowing that 'aiding and abetting' the enemy is frowned on.

Krym may indeed never return to Ukraine as stated above. Time will tell. But Russia has already paid  a huge cost for their aggression and will continue to pay. The demise of word opinion will continue to hit the pocketbook of most Russians for many years.  Rouge nations that sponsor and participate terrorism generally don't prosper.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 23, 2017, 12:29:08 PM
No problem, Mike. 

Russia cash flows very well with oil at USD $100 / Barrel.  Oh, whatdaya mean its only $44.24 per barrel?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 23, 2017, 03:18:45 PM
 :clapping: :clapping:   Yeah that put's a hitch in their getalong!   :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 23, 2017, 05:28:10 PM
Again, probably the best attitude - if a pragmatist - but the way VVP speaks about the 'territory known as Ukraine - he may not be finished with de-stabilising


Is that interview with Putin (where he referred to Ukraine) online anywhere?  I'd like to hear what he said, directly.


A lot of Russia's hold over Ukraine was because of gas.  Last year, Naftogaz didn't buy any gas from Russia directly, though they did buy gas from the EU that had been supplied to the EU by Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 23, 2017, 08:56:18 PM
Funny that you mention that Boe!

"First U.S. Natural Gas Shipped to Poland     On Thursday, the first ever liquefied natural gas shipment from the United States arrived in Poland, a landmark of sorts in Europe’s continuing drive to diversify the sources of its energy import"

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/08/first-u-s-natural-gas-shipped-to-poland/

(From Poland it's just a short pipeline away from Ukraine)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2017, 09:16:22 PM
You must have missed  the court case that recently overturned the gas contract.  Sweden IIRC showing that the 'take or pay anyway' wasn't kosher.

That's what you claimed Ukraine did re non payment of the electricity bill by Crimea - being why the electricity supply was cut off ..

Why should Ukraine or anyone supply needed services to help the enemy conduct business? Since Russia did the invading, they should have planned for this ahead of time knowing that 'aiding and abetting' the enemy is frowned on.

What the Kremlin did was extremely sneaky and UN votes demonstrated non approval  - but you didn't and won't hear most locals feeling that they were 'invaded' - quite the contrary.


Krym may indeed never return to Ukraine as stated above. Time will tell. But Russia has already paid  a huge cost for their aggression and will continue to pay. The demise of word opinion will continue to hit the pocketbook of most Russians for many years.  Rouge nations that sponsor and participate terrorism generally don't prosper.

I can see that you simply haven't been to Russia for a while... Life isn't easy for most Russians, but 'handing Crimea back to Ukraine' isn't seen as a magic solution to making life better.  The sanctions mainly target individuals, corporations and banks - not man in the street.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on June 23, 2017, 09:41:06 PM

I can see that you simply haven't been to Russia for a while... Life isn't easy for most Russians, but 'handing Crimea back to Ukraine' isn't seen as a magic solution to making life better.  The sanctions mainly target individuals, corporations and banks - not man in the street.

I understand the first line targets of the sanctions, but are you saying that the effect does not filter down to affect all other Russians (man on the street)?

Isn't the spending on military actions causing a drain on the Russian budget that would otherwise be spent on the public (man on the street)?

Aren't some of the sanctions making prices higher in Russia for some (many) goods and making some goods scarce or not available at all to man on the street?

Hasn't the devaluing of Ruble eliminated the ability of many Russians (man on the street) to travel like they want and buy imported items that they want?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2017, 10:13:23 PM
I understand the first line targets of the sanctions, but are you saying that the effect does not filter down to affect all other Russians (man on the street)?

ML - it is hard to tell, but as you walk the streets - of Sochi - you don't feel Russians want sanctions gone to improve their life-style..  Nor do I get the impression they wish to 'return Crimea' to improve their life.

Isn't the spending on military actions causing a drain on the Russian budget that would otherwise be spent on the public (man on the street)?

almost certainly

Aren't some of the sanctions making prices higher in Russia for some (many) goods and making some goods scarce or not available at all to man on the street?

If the actions of the govt - economic policy and foreign policy - ARE making goods more expensive - weaker rouble (?) the got is not being blamed, yet.

Hasn't the devaluing of Ruble eliminated the ability of many Russians (man on the street) to travel like they want and buy imported items that they want?

Judging by the Mercs and Range Rovers I see on the streets - NO ...

Seriously, there is more a disconnect - with man in the street possibly thinking there is a ruling class that has no interest in what they think and nothing anything one might try will change it ...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on June 23, 2017, 10:32:04 PM
Seriously, there is more a disconnect - with man in the street possibly thinking there is a ruling class that has no interest in what they think and nothing anything one might try will change it ...


Funny, that is the exact impression I got from locals in Ukraine prior to Maiden (as well as some that have not seen change fast enough to suit them since).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2017, 11:57:16 PM

Funny, that is the exact impression I got from locals in Ukraine prior to Maiden (as well as some that have not seen change fast enough to suit them since).

Are you predicting a popular uprising ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 24, 2017, 12:07:52 AM
Probably not predicting but many have their fingers crossed for the gnomes lingering painful demise, myself included!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 24, 2017, 02:33:19 AM
Probably not predicting but many have their fingers crossed for the gnomes lingering painful demise, myself included!

Define 'many' .. ?   They must be hiding
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on June 24, 2017, 07:54:27 AM
I wrote:  "I understand the first line targets of the sanctions, but are you saying that the effect does not filter down to affect all other Russians (man on the street)?

Isn't the spending on military actions causing a drain on the Russian budget that would otherwise be spent on the public (man on the street)?

Aren't some of the sanctions making prices higher in Russia for some (many) goods and making some goods scarce or not available at all to man on the street?

Hasn't the devaluing of Ruble eliminated the ability of many Russians (man on the street) to travel like they want and buy imported items that they want?
Modify message"


ML - it is hard to tell, but as you walk the streets - of Sochi - you don't feel Russians want sanctions gone to improve their life-style..  Nor do I get the impression they wish to 'return Crimea' to improve their life.

almost certainly

If the actions of the govt - economic policy and foreign policy - ARE making goods more expensive - weaker rouble (?) the got is not being blamed, yet.

Judging by the Mercs and Range Rovers I see on the streets - NO ...

Seriously, there is more a disconnect - with man in the street possibly thinking there is a ruling class that has no interest in what they think and nothing anything one might try will change it ...

Note that you did not directly answer most of what I wrote.  I wrote of the pain that the 'man on the street was suffering due to sanctions, etc.  You replied mostly about how the Russian people don't want to give back Crimea and that they don't blame the gov't and that they don't think they can change anything, etc.

But that was not my question or focus, which was the pain.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 24, 2017, 08:11:01 AM
Funny that you mention that Boe!

"First U.S. Natural Gas Shipped to Poland     On Thursday, the first ever liquefied natural gas shipment from the United States arrived in Poland, a landmark of sorts in Europe’s continuing drive to diversify the sources of its energy import"

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/08/first-u-s-natural-gas-shipped-to-poland/

(From Poland it's just a short pipeline away from Ukraine)

Yeah, well, don't worry.  Americans have been delivering gas to Ukraine for quite awhile.  Victoria Nuland comes to mind.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 24, 2017, 02:18:40 PM
Define 'many' .. ?   They must be hiding

Not only in Rusia but many worldwide.   He's a major hemorrhoid in world peace despite your allegiance.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 25, 2017, 12:08:27 AM
I wrote:  "I understand the first line targets of the sanctions, but are you saying that the effect does not filter down to affect all other Russians (man on the street)?

In my option, no ... what 'filtered down' what the lack of EU produce - particularly good Cheddar ! ..'counter sanctions' ...

Isn't the spending on military actions causing a drain on the Russian budget that would otherwise be spent on the public (man on the street)?

Of COURSE, it is, but 'man in the street' isn't protesting loudly that this spending is 'wrong' / 'unnecessary'

Aren't some of the sanctions making prices higher in Russia for some (many) goods and making some goods scarce or not available at all to man on the street?

Absolutely, not ... that's more the protectionist stunt of the 'counter sanctions' - designed to give inefficient RU industries a leg up ...   Apart from tasty EU based cheeses, ( example ) I don't feel there's something I can't buy on the food front...  Dairy stuff is more expensive than the UK - which has better wages.

Hasn't the devaluing of Ruble eliminated the ability of many Russians (man on the street) to travel like they want and buy imported items that they want?

They can buy all the imported cars they want - if they have the cash / afford the REALLY high credit rates.  Sure the Rouble's fall meant the 'middle class' had to pull kids from British Private Education, but thanks to 'my' people's stupidly - voting to leave the EU - plus the unnecessary Gen Election and the govt being weaker - the British Pound is so weak, Russian Tourists can come back to London and feel sorry for us and re-enlist their kids :)

Yes, overseas tourism is down, but recovering - as the Rouble got stronger. Another reason for numbers being down is rules to stop civil servants travelling overseas... Police and Firemen - for example cannot travel to Turkey / Thailand, any more....lest they be 'rendited to the USA and spill all their secrets !' ...  An acquaintance of mine - who was the liaison officer with the US on provisioning Tomahawks on UK subs, etc., was able to go take a touring holiday in Russia this year - he has been retired some time - and he made it back in one piece without being taken to Lubiyanka. I haven't noticed this causing calls for 'revolution' within the civil service...

Note that you did not directly answer most of what I wrote.  I wrote of the pain that the 'man on the street was suffering due to sanctions, etc.


Sorry, you felt that way ... to be absolutely clear - they aren't - and the sanctions weren't aimed at them.....

The 'counter sanctions' have been more annoying to those who like good cheese ...!

You replied mostly about how the Russian people don't want to give back Crimea and that they don't blame the gov't and that they don't think they can change anything, etc.

But that was not my question or focus, which was the pain.

Once again, I don't think the 'pain' you speak of is being felt .... more a sense of stoic resignation ....

My intent was not to duck your questions, ML and this is my opinion - based on my observations, as I travel with Russia.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 25, 2017, 12:24:13 AM
Not only in Rusia but many worldwide.

Unlike you, I am in RusSia, now ..  My opinion is just that - it is MY estimation of 'mood'.. I simply don't get the feeling that the disconnect is going to change anything... 

  He's a major hemorrhoid in world peace despite your allegiance.

AKMike, having observed the accuracy some of your past cut and pastes - mercifully less of late - I can understand your lack of attention.

As someone labelled a 'Russophobe' elsewhere for my pointing out :
1/ my long distrust of corrupt leadership,
2/ woeful foreign policy - esp towards retaining Soviet like control over neighbours and
3/ 'maskirovki' - look it up - regarding 'away games' in parts of Ukraine and MH17

..one can only wonder at you analytical abilities ..

In one place, there's a wish for my right to Russia to be rescinded for daring to moan about what I see is wrong and we have the likes of you here suggesting some sort of 'allegiance' ? ;)







Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 25, 2017, 12:38:08 AM

Is that interview with Putin (where he referred to Ukraine) online anywhere?  I'd like to hear what he said, directly.


I searched under "Putins live question and answer session transcript June 2017"  and you'll get hits from western and Russian English versions / interpretations

I did the same in Russian:

some examples: http://seopravda.ru/samye-vazhnye-i-srochnye-novosti-rossii-i-mira/stenogramma-prjamoj-linii-s-putinym-15-06-17/ (http://seopravda.ru/samye-vazhnye-i-srochnye-novosti-rossii-i-mira/stenogramma-prjamoj-linii-s-putinym-15-06-17/)

http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54790 (http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54790)

and a video from Pervy Kanal

http://www.1tv.ru/shows/vystupleniya-prezidenta-rossii/pryamaya-liniya-2017/pryamaya-liniya-s-vladimirom-putinym-2017-chast-1 (http://www.1tv.ru/shows/vystupleniya-prezidenta-rossii/pryamaya-liniya-2017/pryamaya-liniya-s-vladimirom-putinym-2017-chast-1)

It would be most interesting to hear you viewpoints

I was especially interested in the call from Dmitry from Ukraine ....







Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 25, 2017, 03:08:04 AM
ML - As I walked around the stocked shelves - just now -  I thought of you ;)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k634/Svietik/20170625_122234_zps0k0xepk1.jpg)



 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: sparky114 on June 25, 2017, 07:52:54 AM
 What no queues out the door
no rationing
people smiling
people going about there day to day business easily

what shock and horror  :D
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on June 25, 2017, 08:26:04 AM
ML - As I walked around the stocked shelves - just now -  I thought of you ;)

Thanks for thinking of me; and thanks for your thoughtful and detailed answers to my earlier query.

Of course I cannot deny the pictures and your descriptions of daily life that you experience.

However I cannot accept that when a currency moves from something in the 20s against the USD to something in the 50s that there is not substantial effect on the people.  It defies common sense and logic.

But we need not continue this line of discussion.  Best to you and your mate. :-)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on June 25, 2017, 08:38:10 AM
ML - As I walked around the stocked shelves - just now -  I thought of you ;)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k634/Svietik/20170625_122234_zps0k0xepk1.jpg)

And, by the way, those legs would be illegal in 37 of our states.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 25, 2017, 09:47:47 AM
What no queues out the door
no rationing
people smiling
people going about there day to day business easily

what shock and horror  :D

No, those are confined to registering one's presence in Sochi, Moscow, Piter, Kazan.. :(

I expect there'd be a queue for decent Euro Cheeses ;)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 25, 2017, 09:57:07 AM


However I cannot accept that when a currency moves from something in the 20s against the USD to something in the 50s that there is not substantial effect on the people.  It defies common sense and logic.


It affected the 'middle class', mostly.  Sure there was food inflation and interest rates went up to prop up the Rouble.. This was blamed on the west rather than govt actions ...

But we need not continue this line of discussion.  Best to you and your mate. :-)

Don't worry .. I raise a glass of Russian locally brewed beer to toast your health ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: LAman on June 25, 2017, 10:27:20 AM
I understand the first line targets of the sanctions, but are you saying that the effect does not filter down to affect all other Russians (man on the street)?

Isn't the spending on military actions causing a drain on the Russian budget that would otherwise be spent on the public (man on the street)?

Aren't some of the sanctions making prices higher in Russia for some (many) goods and making some goods scarce or not available at all to man on the street?

Hasn't the devaluing of Ruble eliminated the ability of many Russians (man on the street) to travel like they want and buy imported items that they want?

ML, I agree with msmob, i've spent almost 2 months in Russia this past year and have not noticed much affect of sanctions, now there are probably less goods available as before sanctions but you would be surprised at what is brought illegally!!)) I go to parks and families are together, restaurants, malls, airports are full of people. I just don't see any depressed people. Are they hiding their true thoughts? Maybe the society/culture over the years has hardened the people to not be so much affected by the outside world. I have been to the main cities of St Piter, Moscow, Kazan, along with smaller cities of Cheboksary and Yoshkar-Ola.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 25, 2017, 11:28:25 AM
Thanks for thinking of me; and thanks for your thoughtful and detailed answers to my earlier query.

Of course I cannot deny the pictures and your descriptions of daily life that you experience.

However I cannot accept that when a currency moves from something in the 20s against the USD to something in the 50s that there is not substantial effect on the people.  It defies common sense and logic.

But we need not continue this line of discussion.  Best to you and your mate. :-)

It will only matter to the extent a country imports.  If Russians are purchasing Russian produced food products, fertilized with local potash, and Russian made clothing, made with Egyptian cotton procured on an arms trade, it won't affect them as much as in countries with large trade relationships.

In Canada, I notice no difference in prices from when our dollar traded in the sixty cent range, to when it was at par, to now, when it is in the mid seventy cent range.  Most of our food is imported from California, some from Mexico.  No difference in food prices, or clothing.  The only time I noticed a difference was when I bought clothing online (nordstrom/Neiman Marcus) or traveled to the US.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 25, 2017, 11:58:13 AM
I searched under "Putins live question and answer session transcript June 2017"  and you'll get hits from western and Russian English versions / interpretations

I did the same in Russian:

some examples: http://seopravda.ru/samye-vazhnye-i-srochnye-novosti-rossii-i-mira/stenogramma-prjamoj-linii-s-putinym-15-06-17/ (http://seopravda.ru/samye-vazhnye-i-srochnye-novosti-rossii-i-mira/stenogramma-prjamoj-linii-s-putinym-15-06-17/)

http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54790 (http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54790)

and a video from Pervy Kanal

http://www.1tv.ru/shows/vystupleniya-prezidenta-rossii/pryamaya-liniya-2017/pryamaya-liniya-s-vladimirom-putinym-2017-chast-1 (http://www.1tv.ru/shows/vystupleniya-prezidenta-rossii/pryamaya-liniya-2017/pryamaya-liniya-s-vladimirom-putinym-2017-chast-1)

It would be most interesting to hear you viewpoints

I was especially interested in the call from Dmitry from Ukraine ....


Thanks, moby.  Those are interviews primarily on domestic issues.


I searched google.ru, but I'll keep trying.


Meanwhile, not on topic, but this was an interesting article on why the CIA should never trust the Russians -


http://www.thedailybeast.com/why-cia-vets-say-putin-hates-americaand-why-president-trump-cant-trust-him

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 25, 2017, 12:19:27 PM

Thanks, moby.  Those are interviews primarily on domestic issues.


A pleasure, but is the 'territory currently known as Ukraine'' ( VVP's words )  - a 'domestic' issue ? ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 25, 2017, 03:53:11 PM
I didn't view it as any sort of threat.  He has a very Soviet understanding of history, particularly linguistic history, but on the latter point, so does the better half, and even objective Russian (1897) census material proving them wrong won't dissuade them.


Putin is not wrong about the Ukrainian nationalists.  Sort of ironic he doesn't see that in his own country, where the situation is the same, perhaps even worse.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 25, 2017, 09:43:38 PM
Boethius,

A good point re nationalists / patriots'. But I'm surprised you didn't find it 'threatening' to the integrity of Ukraine. Th questions allowed through are clearly calculated to allow VVP to make a point and Dmitry's question was a clear - we don't see Ukraine surviving in it's current format.

Watching Pervy kanal last night - one id fed a diet of VVP's responses from the Q and A session, his interview with Oliver Stone and how' badly' folks live in Kharkiv/ ov  - which is undoubtedly the rich prize VVP wants to destabilise


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 25, 2017, 09:48:52 PM
Ukraine can't survive in its current state, where anything of value is stolen by the powerful and there is no rule of law.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 25, 2017, 10:02:35 PM
So, will UA disappear off the map ?!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 25, 2017, 10:21:59 PM
I truly hope not.  But it may just become a country mired in corruption, something like Haiti.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 28, 2017, 09:49:09 AM
Gee wiz whodd'a thunk it...   :rolleyes:     (use your translator)

Kremlin telling Russians to face falling living standards for years.


http://www.profile.ru/pryamayarech/item/118101-luchshe-uzhe-ne-budet

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 28, 2017, 12:41:36 PM
Gee wiz whodd'a thunk it...   :rolleyes:     (use your translator)

Kremlin telling Russians to face falling living standards for years.


http://www.profile.ru/pryamayarech/item/118101-luchshe-uzhe-ne-budet

1/ The Kremlin is NOT stating what you claim ...  even if the Rosstat figures suggest they should be

2/ The website from which  this article you quote from is 100, 000 times less read than Pervy Kanal's site....   Even if it is bad news - it isn't likely to be read..

Source: zonwhois.com/www/profil.ru.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 28, 2017, 01:08:05 PM
You don't seem to comprehend .. I didn't state it.. That article did.

 It's not my job to verify Russian sources. Maybe you should apply as a editor and fact check them instead of 'biatching' about it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 28, 2017, 09:52:11 PM



[/quote]
You don't seem to comprehend .. I didn't state it.. That article did.

 It's not my job to verify Russian sources. Maybe you should apply as a editor and fact check them instead of 'biatching' about it.

Hmm, I guessing that you posted this to 'prove' a point...?


Kremlin telling Russians to face falling living standards for years.

I just showed you that :

The Kremlin aren't 'telling' it's citizens any such thing...

As ever, when 'busted' - you 'distance' yourself from the article you posted ..





Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 29, 2017, 10:29:38 AM
Here's the subtitle of the article,"Впервые в XXI веке режим пытается приучить граждан к мысли, что ухудшение жизни – это не «временные трудности», а норма."

My translator shows it as..

 " For the first time in the XXI century, the regime is trying to accustom people to the idea that life deterioration - is not a "temporary difficulties", but the norm."

Regime means the Kremlin.. Unless it's his bunch of thieves/oligarchs saying this. Are there other regimes controlling Russia?   :rolleyes:

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 29, 2017, 11:13:08 AM
But the Russian government never said that, Mike.  Neither did any oligarch.  It was said by the editors of that paper.


The article is full of generalizations, and statistics that are not readily available in Russia.


Part of what the Russian government is doing is creating self sufficiency.  They have already created a sense of national identity, and that is something that didn't exist in, say, 1995.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on June 29, 2017, 11:26:23 AM
AKMike-I find it laughable that you talk about the downfall of Russia when you live in a country that is more corrupt, poorer, has a higher crime rate and has fewer future prospects than Russia.

Bottom line is, life is better in Russia regardless of Putin. Hate Russia all you want but your posts are not convincing anyone here who is familiar with Russia.

But please, continue to make a fool of yourself.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on June 29, 2017, 05:06:11 PM
Reading that post, mhr7, and seeing that you addressed it to AK, I thought you were referencing Another Kiwi.  And I would have to agree with you about everything you said about New Zealand.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on June 29, 2017, 05:31:20 PM
Reading that post, mhr7, and seeing that you addressed it to AK, I thought you were referencing Another Kiwi.

That was my first thought, too!

And I would have to agree with you about everything you said about New Zealand.

Just as well, then, that he has NEVER said anything about New Zealand!  :devil:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on June 29, 2017, 05:40:21 PM
Reading that post, mhr7, and seeing that you addressed it to AK, I thought you were referencing Another Kiwi.  And I would have to agree with you about everything you said about New Zealand.

Changed that ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 29, 2017, 07:59:53 PM
AKMike-I find it laughable that you talk about the downfall of Russia when you live in a country that is more corrupt, poorer, has a higher crime rate and has fewer future prospects than Russia.

1/ More corrupt ?  I think not ...  Russia's leadership and mates are doing v.well for themselves

2/ I'd agree the USA has poor people - but REALLY, Russian's are 'better off' ? ..I think not, and GDP figures back me feelings up

3/ Higher crime rate? ..Well,you certainly don't have the gun crime murder-rate in Russia, but there is much crime here that never gets reported and folks who get convicted for being 'awkward' to the Political base...


Bottom line is, life is better in Russia regardless of Putin. Hate Russia all you want but your posts are not convincing anyone here who is familiar with Russia.

I don't know where you live, but Russia - with all it's resources - should be SO much better off.  IF you can keep  your head below the parapet- YES - life can be good...

It's a wonderful country - held back by those who are making a pile

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 29, 2017, 08:05:01 PM
Same story in Ukraine. All the former commies who are now unrestrained have shown their true faces.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on June 29, 2017, 11:26:00 PM
1/ More corrupt ?  I think not ...  Russia's leadership and mates are doing v.well for themselves

2/ I'd agree the USA has poor people - but REALLY, Russian's are 'better off' ? ..I think not, and GDP figures back me feelings up

3/ Higher crime rate? ..Well,you certainly don't have the gun crime murder-rate in Russia, but there is much crime here that never gets reported and folks who get convicted for being 'awkward' to the Political base...


I don't know where you live, but Russia - with all it's resources - should be SO much better off.  IF you can keep  your head below the parapet- YES - life can be good...

It's a wonderful country - held back by those who are making a pile

I'm talking about Ukraine mob, where AkMike is a resident.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 29, 2017, 11:36:35 PM
I'm talking about Ukraine mob, where AkMike is a resident.

Oh, sorry - I really didn't know that .. but as we both know Russia - I was a little taken aback at some of your comparisons
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 30, 2017, 11:11:48 AM
It seems that the occupied Crimean Penn. is having another bad year  for crops and further development.  :rolleyes:
An estimated 437,000 hectares of irrigated land has dropped to 13,000. A 92% reduction.   :crackwhip:

Of course it's not Russia's fault that the water source dried up but Ukraine's..  :D  At least their version of the story.  ;D

" In accordance with international law, the obligation to provide the occupied territory are assigned to the country-occupier. Lack of water in the Crimea, the lack of electricity or expensive products - the Kremlin's problem, not Kiev." Pipelines have been discussed but there's not enough extra water in the Kuban (former Ukrainian land)  to supply the needs of the Krym.



http://ru.krymr.com/a/28585372.html

More interesting reading on the subject can be found here also.    http://ru.krymr.com/a/news/28493393.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 30, 2017, 11:16:04 AM
Kuban was never Ukrainian land.  During Tsarist times, about half the population was ethnic Ukrainian, but the land was always part of Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 30, 2017, 11:18:19 AM
But please, continue to make a fool of yourself.

That would be your opinion and not mine. Personally I don't give a wretched rats rosy red rectum about your thoughts and ideas. I assume that's also your opinion of me. 

 I don't care!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 30, 2017, 11:21:32 AM
Pre Bolshevik revolution maps show a vast are of Kuban as Ukrainian.

 Or are these altered maps?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 30, 2017, 11:48:47 AM
Even when Ukraine declared a republic in the interwar period, that republic did not include Kuban.  It has never been Ukrainian territory, and Ukrainians never claimed it as theirs.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 30, 2017, 12:24:26 PM
Incidentally, your first map just notes historically Cossack lands.  Cossacks originally were from Ukraine, but one did not need to be a Ukrainian to be a Cossack.  One did have to swear to uphold Orthodoxy to be a Cossack. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 30, 2017, 01:09:56 PM
I've seen other maps that recognized Kuban as being inside Ukraine's borders.  You may be mistaken.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 30, 2017, 01:43:21 PM
No, I am not mistaken.

The first map you posted is a nationalist map recognizing historic Cossack lands and areas in which Ukrainians lived.  I've seen it before. Given Ukraine was never an independent country with universal international acknowledgement until 1991, how are any of these "maps" relevant?  They indicate areas where Ukrainians lived.  If we use your logic, parts of what is now southeastern and Central Ukraine should be included in maps of Germany.

Kuban had Cossacks, who were resettled there from Ukraine.  Ukrainians also emigrated there, as the land was excellent.  At one time, just short of half the population of Kuban was Ukrainian.  But that doesn't make it "Ukrainian".
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on June 30, 2017, 02:12:29 PM
Possibly but my line of reasoning is that cartographers seldom make mistakes. The title says Map Ukraine not Map Cossacks.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on June 30, 2017, 02:46:11 PM
The first map displays areas where Ukrainians lived.  It actually comes from a famous postcard issued in 1919, showing where in Europe Ukrainians settled.

The second map asks a question - "The Bolsheviks gifted us "Veleku Ukrainu"?  They made it smaller by several factors!" - The red display is the border from Soviet sources, the black, what the delegates of the UPR declared as Ukraine's borders at the 1919-1920 Paris Peace Conference. 

How could a map display "Ukraine" when there was, at that time, no "Ukraine", other than as a region within another country?  This is historical fact, whether we like it or not.  It does not serve the interests of Ukrainians to create false histories.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on June 30, 2017, 09:11:16 PM
It seems that the occupied Crimean Penn. is having another bad year  for crops and further development.  :rolleyes:
An estimated 437,000 hectares of irrigated land has dropped to 13,000. A 92% reduction.   :crackwhip:

Of course it's not Russia's fault that the water source dried up but Ukraine's..  :D  At least their version of the story.  ;D

" In accordance with international law, the obligation to provide the occupied territory are assigned to the country-occupier. Lack of water in the Crimea, the lack of electricity or expensive products - the Kremlin's problem, not Kiev." Pipelines have been discussed but there's not enough extra water in the Kuban (former Ukrainian land)  to supply the needs of the Krym.



http://ru.krymr.com/a/28585372.html

More interesting reading on the subject can be found here also.    http://ru.krymr.com/a/news/28493393.html

Not enough water in the Caucasus Mountains ?))  Now That IS funny
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on July 13, 2017, 06:39:48 PM
In this thread over a considerable time I have asserted that the Russian cash reserves would be exhausted in due course.It looks like that time has arrived.
The effect of the sanctions along with the fall in oil and gas prices ( & customers)has seen the income that has propped up the Russian kleptocracy is now coming to a crisis point. The cost of the invasion and war on Ukraine and Putin's gamble looks like it will fail.
What is needed is for Trump to stop his adulation for Putin and Russia and realise that a lot of problems for the world( & the US of A) can be solved with firm action NOW.
Putin is spending money he does not have -- and despite the assertions of a few here that all is rosy in the Russia they know ! -- the fact is that the economy is going backwards at an accelerating rate. Needless to say--it is the people at the bottom of the food chain bearing the brunt of the reverse of the economy and the cost of waging war in Ukraine -- and Putin's last ditch gamble in Syria for relevance .
If Trump was one quarter as smart as he thinks he is ( note the "he thinks"-not what I think he is !!)  he would realise that Putin only has bluff and bluster to offer -- and actions of substance will crush Russia( in particular the current regime)

Report from last year.
Russia is seriously running out of cash
Russia is bleeding cash at an alarming rate.
After almost two years in recession, the country's rainy day fund has shrunk to just $32.2 billion this month, according to the Russian Finance Ministry. It was $91.7 billion in September 2014, just before oil prices started to collapse.
And it's getting worse. Analysts expect the fund will shrink to just $15 billion by the end of this year and dry up completely soon after that.
"At the current rate, the fund would be depleted in mid-2017, perhaps a few months later,"


http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/16/news/economy/russia-cash-reserves-depleted/index.html

This report today


The Central Bank of the Russian Federation has officially stated that no more currency


http://www.technosotnya.com/2016/07/Rossija-strana-bankrot-Centrobank-segodnja-officialno-zajavil-chto-valjuty-bolshe-netu.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on July 13, 2017, 09:46:14 PM
despite the assertions of a few here that all is rosy in the Russia they know ! -- the fact is that the economy is going backwards at an accelerating rate. Needless to say--it is the people at the bottom of the food chain bearing the brunt of the reverse of the economy and the cost of waging war in Ukraine -- and Putin's last ditch gamble in Syria for relevance .

Dear JayH

As I am here and observe REAL LIFE - not the wishful thinking of your journal - I continue to report those at the 'bottom of the food chain' are bearing up

I'm certain that The Kremlin are in *hit street and need a drastic increase in oil / gas prices - and that that is scary - but I'm simply NOT seeing / feeling 'the end is nigh' ....

Judging by articles by 'experts' from the same publication  - like "how the return of Donbas is very clear" http://www.technosotnya.com/2017/07/Jekspert-variant-vozvrashhenija-Donbassa-predeno-jasen.html (http://www.technosotnya.com/2017/07/Jekspert-variant-vozvrashhenija-Donbassa-predeno-jasen.html) you're going to need to find less sensationalist journals...

When I notice that the Russian man in the street is really saying, " enough" - I'll be one of the first to let you know.....

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 13, 2017, 10:07:36 PM
In this thread over a considerable time I have asserted that the Russian cash reserves would be exhausted in due course.It looks like that time has arrived.
The effect of the sanctions along with the fall in oil and gas prices ( & customers)has seen the income that has propped up the Russian kleptocracy is now coming to a crisis point. The cost of the invasion and war on Ukraine and Putin's gamble looks like it will fail.
What is needed is for Trump to stop his adulation for Putin and Russia and realise that a lot of problems for the world( & the US of A) can be solved with firm action NOW.
Putin is spending money he does not have -- and despite the assertions of a few here that all is rosy in the Russia they know ! -- the fact is that the economy is going backwards at an accelerating rate. Needless to say--it is the people at the bottom of the food chain bearing the brunt of the reverse of the economy and the cost of waging war in Ukraine -- and Putin's last ditch gamble in Syria for relevance .
If Trump was one quarter as smart as he thinks he is ( note the "he thinks"-not what I think he is !!)  he would realise that Putin only has bluff and bluster to offer -- and actions of substance will crush Russia( in particular the current regime)

Report from last year.
Russia is seriously running out of cash
Russia is bleeding cash at an alarming rate.
After almost two years in recession, the country's rainy day fund has shrunk to just $32.2 billion this month, according to the Russian Finance Ministry. It was $91.7 billion in September 2014, just before oil prices started to collapse.
And it's getting worse. Analysts expect the fund will shrink to just $15 billion by the end of this year and dry up completely soon after that.
"At the current rate, the fund would be depleted in mid-2017, perhaps a few months later,"


http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/16/news/economy/russia-cash-reserves-depleted/index.html

This report today


The Central Bank of the Russian Federation has officially stated that no more currency


http://www.technosotnya.com/2016/07/Rossija-strana-bankrot-Centrobank-segodnja-officialno-zajavil-chto-valjuty-bolshe-netu.html

Inasmuch as you continue to post that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid/uninformed, I can tell you that as of May, Russia had the equivalent of 16.34 Billion USD (approximate) in ready cash reserves.  This according to CNBC and Reuters.  But, if you continue to read the propaganda rags that you so frequently pass as news on this forum, you can expect push back from the idiots you castigate.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/02/reuters-america-russias-reserve-fund-grows-to-1634-bln-as-of-may-1.html

I opined previously that one of the reasons that the Russian cash flow seems to be increasing is that they are selling oil at below market price to China. 

However, the US and its Western European friends are making agreements to freeze Russia out of the oil and natural gas market by obtaining the same from America.  It is slightly more expensive than Russian oil and natural gas, but the Europeans believe that establishing dual sources will keep the Russians in line.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on July 13, 2017, 10:22:21 PM
JayH's painting a black picture re the economy in Russia had me re-visiting the "Ivanov index" - consumer confidence survey carried out by Sberbank - the largest personal bank in Russia

The April 2017 index - covering Q1 2017 is the 19th such survey and reflected the recovering Rouble - which has slid back against many currencies more recently. It will be interesting to see what has happened in the 20th report - due, soon.

On reading it, I noted an improvement in middle class Russia's outlook - something many earlier surveys did not show - before anyone might suggest 'propaganda' ... I used these same surveys to demonstrate a distinct lack of confidence in later 2014, 2015, and '16 - to the point I was labelled a 'russophobe'  in some place ;)

The 'Invanov Index' measures, "monitors consumer spending, savings and confidence trends across the country."

http://www.sberbank.ru/en/press_center/cib/article?newsID=ab9c64a5-5d56-4317-818a-11679dbacda9&blockID=11008162&regionID=77&lang=en (http://www.sberbank.ru/en/press_center/cib/article?newsID=ab9c64a5-5d56-4317-818a-11679dbacda9&blockID=11008162&regionID=77&lang=en)


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on July 13, 2017, 10:32:52 PM
I would post more material giving current info but there is no easy way to post a summary .
Anything longer sees the morons here running off to tell tales -- like little children.
Fact is --Russia has already reduced pensions in a time of inflation and rising costs. :cluebat:

Written last year.
Russia 'could run out of cash reserves over the next year'
Pension pots may have to be raided to cover budget shortfalls

The Russian government is ploughing through its foreign exchange reserves at such a fast rate that it could use up its rainy day fund by 2017, government officials have claimed.

Despite being a major oil producing nation, pension pots may have to be raided to cover budget shortfalls, on which much of the reserve funds have already been spent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-money-reserve-fund-2017-assets-oil-prices-recession-sanctions-a7313236.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on July 13, 2017, 11:04:50 PM

Fact is --Russia has already reduced pensions in a time of inflation and rising costs.


They did ? ...

Please show evidence of this 'reduction' ...


The govt actually  'bribed' pensions with a 5000 R one off payment bonus in Jan 2017

For sure, the Kremlin have a big problem .. an aging population, nearly 40 percent of voters of pensionable age
- due to pension eligibility being amongst the lowest age commencement - 55 and 60 years old, female / male, respectively AND taking on Crimea and Donbas pension payouts

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2016/09/08/russia-pension-dilemma/ (http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2016/09/08/russia-pension-dilemma/)

JayH, why spoil your stance with the introduction of inaccuracies ? 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 22, 2017, 11:38:01 AM
In a clearly bi-partisan effort, Congress today passed significant sanctions against Russia.  In a curious move, the Democrats were given the victory by the Republicans and invited to present it to the American people.  Significant to the bill was the inability for Trump to waive portions of the Sanctions unless submitted to Congress.  Congress then has 30 days to agree or disagree. 

Clearly Congress wants the last word on Russian Sanctions.  Moreover, the vote count was significant enough that they can override a Presidential veto.

While this is not a defeat for the President, it is significant effort by Congress to impose its will in lieu of tampering by the President. 

*** I spoke a little out of hand.  The agreement on the legislation was reached.  However, the final bill has not wound its way through both houses yet.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on July 22, 2017, 02:49:42 PM
In a clearly bi-partisan effort, Congress today passed significant sanctions against Russia.  In a curious move, the Democrats were given the victory by the Republicans and invited to present it to the American people.  Significant to the bill was the inability for Trump to waive portions of the Sanctions unless submitted to Congress.  Congress then has 30 days to agree or disagree. 

Clearly Congress wants the last word on Russian Sanctions.  Moreover, the vote count was significant enough that they can override a Presidential veto.

While this is not a defeat for the President, it is significant effort by Congress to impose its will in lieu of tampering by the President. 

*** I spoke a little out of hand.  The agreement on the legislation was reached.  However, the final bill has not wound its way through both houses yet.

This has been ongoing for some time --the idea that Trump could remove ( & was try to) Russian sanctions unilaterally was the spark to   get moving.It does also contain sanction issues on other countries.
The Trump Whitehouse is opposing having the power of the President to remove sanctions removed.
Just another of so many questions about the Trump Russian connection that makes a full investigation necessary.

Bipartisan group agrees on Russia sanctions for meddling in election


The review requirement in the sanctions bill is styled after 2015 legislation pushed by Republicans and approved in the Senate that gave Congress a vote on whether then president Barack Obama could lift sanctions against Iran. That measure reflected Republican complaints that Obama had overstepped the power of the presidency and needed to be checked by Congress.

According to the bill, Trump is required to send Congress a report explaining why he wants to suspend or terminate a particular set of sanctions. Lawmakers would then have 30 days to decide whether to allow the move or reject it.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/22/bipartisan-group-agrees-on-russia-sanctions-for-meddling-in-election
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on July 22, 2017, 03:03:14 PM
A note of caution here.

Court appeals filed to contest whether President has authority to limit Immigration, etc.

Similarly, President could appeal to Courts to contest whether Congress has authority to limit his ability to impose/lift sanctions, etc.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 22, 2017, 04:17:20 PM
This has been ongoing for some time --the idea that Trump could remove ( & was try to) Russian sanctions unilaterally was the spark to   get moving.It does also contain sanction issues on other countries.
The Trump Whitehouse is opposing having the power of the President to remove sanctions removed.
Just another of so many questions about the Trump Russian connection that makes a full investigation necessary.

Bipartisan group agrees on Russia sanctions for meddling in election


The review requirement in the sanctions bill is styled after 2015 legislation pushed by Republicans and approved in the Senate that gave Congress a vote on whether then president Barack Obama could lift sanctions against Iran. That measure reflected Republican complaints that Obama had overstepped the power of the presidency and needed to be checked by Congress.

According to the bill, Trump is required to send Congress a report explaining why he wants to suspend or terminate a particular set of sanctions. Lawmakers would then have 30 days to decide whether to allow the move or reject it.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/22/bipartisan-group-agrees-on-russia-sanctions-for-meddling-in-election

FAKE NEWS ALERT!  Please show where the President has tried to have Russian Sanctions removed.  Please also show where the President has said he opposes this legislation.   This is very typical of liberals - they take real news and then throw in something to make the President look bad. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 22, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
A note of caution here.

Court appeals filed to contest whether President has authority to limit Immigration, etc.

Similarly, President could appeal to Courts to contest whether Congress has authority to limit his ability to impose/lift sanctions, etc.

ML, it would work the same way that sanctions for Cuba require Congressional action to remove.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on July 22, 2017, 04:35:14 PM
FAKE NEWS ALERT!  Please show where the President has tried to have Russian Sanctions removed.  Please also show where the President has said he opposes this legislation.   This is very typical of liberals - they take real news and then throw in something to make the President look bad.

You want to dispute that?  Put that on the list ( the lists is getting longer everyday) of  how you make incorrect and wrong statements.

"Fake" news allegation --is the hiding place for those that want to deny the inconvenient reality . What has been labeled "fake" by Trump-- and his apologists --has repeatedly been confirmed at a later stage.

Trump had removing Russian sanctions very high on his "do" list on assuming the Presidency  -- and has made several attempts already.
You think I am wrong?  Wait & see who proves to be correct --it will come out  and be clear at some stage.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 22, 2017, 04:39:38 PM
They never said it, Jay. You did. Put up or shut up.  it really is annoying for an Australian to come on the forum and say stuff about the the President that DIDN'T happen.  So, if you can actually point to news articles to back up your claim, put them here on the forum. 

For the record:

1.  Trump has endorsed the current sanctions against Russia.  Perhaps you missed his speech in Poland.

2.  The President has not come out against the legislation.   

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on July 22, 2017, 05:32:13 PM
They never said it, Jay. You did. Put up or shut up.  it really is annoying for an Australian to come on the forum and say stuff about the the President that DIDN'T happen.  So, if you can actually point to news articles to back up your claim, put them here on the forum. 

For the record:

1.  Trump has endorsed the current sanctions against Russia.  Perhaps you missed his speech in Poland.

2.  The President has not come out against the legislation.

Why don't you say "it never happened" if that is what you believe?
It is really annoying to see a mindless American being so ignorant of what is happening on his doorstep .

I have made it clear in the past --I am not going to run around finding information that is available to all -- and have already posted about.
Given the ongoing investigation -- a very substantial part of what I have said -- will be confirmed in due course. For the time being -- I am over hearing all the "fake" allegation when you,others,Trump,Fox  choose to be so obtuse .
Now go climb out on a limb-- tell me again -"it has never happened"?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on July 23, 2017, 06:46:53 PM
Why don't you say "it never happened" if that is what you believe?
It is really annoying to see a mindless American being so ignorant of what is happening on his doorstep .

I have made it clear in the past --I am not going to run around finding information that is available to all -- and have already posted about.
Given the ongoing investigation -- a very substantial part of what I have said -- will be confirmed in due course. For the time being -- I am over hearing all the "fake" allegation when you,others,Trump,Fox  choose to be so obtuse .
Now go climb out on a limb-- tell me again -"it has never happened"?

So, getting to the bottom of the legislation (that Jay says the President opposes - and is unwilling to source his information) here is the article from the NY Times today explaining that, in spite of limiting the President's ability to conduct foreign policy, the President supports the legislation going forward.

Now I guess the NYT seems to be claiming that Jay's allegation is fake as well.  But, hey, that's just me.  I put up an honest account of where I saw the legislation a day ago, Jay claims that Trump was against the legislation because he doesn't support the sanctions, and I claimed that Jay was not honest with the forum.

Now maybe people can see why we Americans get upset with foreign nationals who claim they know our political process better than we do.  Frankly, I don't know of any Americans who do that with other countries.  Especially when they have the facts wrong.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/23/us/politics/trump-russia-sanctions.html

“The administration is supportive of being tough on Russia, particularly in putting these sanctions in place,” Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the new White House press secretary, said on “This Week” on ABC. “The original piece of legislation was poorly written, but we were able to work with the House and Senate, and the administration is happy with the ability to do that and make those changes that were necessary, and we support where the legislation is now.”

It can be safely argued that the NY Times will still cast the President's support on this bill in the worst possible terms.  But, simply put, the President will sign the agreed upon legislation - no matter what Jay says.

Inasmuch as you, Jay, are too busy to provide the links, I have provided it for you....

That's twice today that someone has taken you to the woodshed.  You need to change your posting style.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on July 23, 2017, 09:48:12 PM
Frankly, I don't know of any Americans who do that with other countries.  Especially when they have the facts wrong.

Oh, I don't know, Jone -  I have seen plenty of 'bollox' written about Brexit and UK immigration policies ...by non UK nationals and UK nationals - this is not aimed at you.

Whilst, I think Trump is a total twat and wonder how Americans (and British) manage to end with inept leaders  - I rarely post on here - as I await the findings pf investigations - THEN we'll know what is 'fake news'

In the meantime:
I have made it clear in the past --I am not going to run around finding information that is available to all -- and have already posted about.


Actually, JayH - you do run around - often posting inaccurate info - that means so good stuff you post gets 'lost' -" the boy crying Wolf"...

When your inaccurate  'news' articles are busted, you rarely admit it - or learn to be more careful....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on July 27, 2017, 08:15:47 PM
So, getting to the bottom of the legislation (that Jay says the President opposes - and is unwilling to source his information) here is the article from the NY Times today explaining that, in spite of limiting the President's ability to conduct foreign policy, the President supports the legislation going forward.

Now I guess the NYT seems to be claiming that Jay's allegation is fake as well.  But, hey, that's just me.  I put up an honest account of where I saw the legislation a day ago, Jay claims that Trump was against the legislation because he doesn't support the sanctions, and I claimed that Jay was not honest with the forum.



It can be safely argued that the NY Times will still cast the President's support on this bill in the worst possible terms.  But, simply put, the President will sign the agreed upon legislation - no matter what Jay says.


The biggest laugh is you-- talking about being honest to this forum.
Your patent lying is a matter of record.

Your comments in various posts above are clearly proven WRONG by news this week. Just another exampleof how you are clueless in understanding current situation.I your haste to attack me you have climbed out on a rotten limb !

2 issues --firstly  -I asked are you disputing what I said --ie Trump has attempted to remove Russian sanctions?(Note-- you assail me ,but are not prepared to say it did not happen--but happy to accuse me of "making it up"

Secondly -- the current legislation to prevent Trump removing sanctions -- are you seriously saying Trump is not and has not attempted to stop it?
I note your selective acceptance of NYT being god on THIS issue--but on nothing else !!
 :deadhorse:


Congress sends Russia sanctions bill to Trump, but it’s unclear whether he will sign i
t

The administration has said that the president may veto a bill increasing sanctions against Russia, Iran and North Korea, despite there being veto-proof majorities in both the Senate and House. The Senate voted to pass the bill Thursday, two days after the House passed it 419-3.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on July 27, 2017, 08:27:27 PM


In the meantime:

Actually, JayH - you do run around - often posting inaccurate info - that means so good stuff you post gets 'lost' -" the boy crying Wolf"...

When your inaccurate  'news' articles are busted, you rarely admit it - or learn to be more careful....

Needless to say Moby is too stupid to see facts unfolding and jumps in to troll me again.

For those that dont see it--Moby thinks he is the only one that should know anything about the FSU--the fact is that his is now a narrow exposure. He constantly shows his lack of knowledge or understanding;
Combined with his desire to make every thread about him -- it is boring,tedious.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on July 28, 2017, 01:30:52 AM
The biggest laugh is you-- talking about being honest to this forum.
Your patent lying is a matter of record.

This is your MAJOR weakness - when you are busted for conclusions based on duff info - you tell us you only source the info - don't check it ..

So... here is the latest Sberbank 'Ivanov index'  ... Consumer confidence of the bank's clients .

The bad news - for those in power - who told Russians they would stamp on it ..  is that CORRUPTION is the main bug-bear ..


http://sberbank-cib.ru/eng/about/news/index.wbp?number=2590 (http://sberbank-cib.ru/eng/about/news/index.wbp?number=2590)
 

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 02, 2017, 12:52:40 PM
Just for the record -- and to illustrate how far some of the crap above aimed at me is -- Trump by numerous reports -- only signed this bill with a loaded gun pointed at his head . The bi partisan support was designed to outflank him with overwhelming common sense  -- and leave Trump no option but to sign.
Anyone that thinks otherwise is away with the Trump fake fairies.
Note --the story confirms what I said above-- despite those that accused me of making it up.

Russia sanctions: Trump signs bill imposing new measures

Donald Trump has grudgingly approved a package of new sanctions on Russia that limits his own authority to reverse or relax them, signing the bill behind closed doors and voicing strong objections to the measures.

Trump took the unusual step of issuing two statements to accompany his signature, in which he said he had given his approval “for the sake of national unity” while calling the congressional bill “seriously flawed” and “clearly unconstitutional”.

In a sign that the president might seek to mitigate the impact of the bill in its implementation, he said would give “respectful consideration to the preferences” expressed by Congress in its provisions but would “implement them in a manner consistent with the President’s constitutional authority to conduct foreign relations”.


Russia cuts US diplomatic presence in retaliation for sanctions

Trump had little choice but to sign the bill, which also includes expanded sanctions on Iran and North Korea. It was passed in the Senate by 98 votes to two and in the House of Representatives by 419 to three, so a presidential veto would have been easily overturned by a Congress that is wary of Trump’s ties to Moscow.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/02/donald-trump-sanctions-russia-signs-bill


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on August 02, 2017, 05:53:48 PM

Trump thinks he could do what Obama couldn't in resetting relations with Russia. Naďve just as Obama was. Only one percent of America's politicians thought the bill wasn't worth approving. Those few may have disagreed with sanctions on all, some, or one of the three nations getting sanctioned.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on August 26, 2017, 07:05:50 PM
May it be the first of many more .
The more disruption and isolation that Russia receives will only accelerate the demise of the Putin kleptocracy.


Russian banks cut off from SWIFT for working in Crimea

The main Russian bank working in Russian-occupied Crimea and one other have been informed that the company providing their connection to the SWIFT network will terminate its services from 31 August.  According to Vedomosti’s two unnamed sources, Finastra has taken the decision because both the Russian National Commercial Bank [RNCB] and Tempbank, in which Russia’s Central Bank has introduced temporary administration, are under international sanctions.  In the case of RNCB, this is specifically over its work in Crimea.

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1503759946
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 07, 2017, 08:01:28 AM
According to one fresh report about the Kerch Bridge fiasco.. :rolleyes:

 :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:    One support sunk a meter and anotuher one sunk 1/2 meter :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Work has stopped and the workers were told to keep their lips sealed. Like that happened eh?  :rolleyes:


You'll need to use your translator.

http://www.infoaccent.net/chast-kerchenskogo-mosta-ukhodit-pod-vodu-raboty-ostanovleny/?_utl_t=fb
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 07, 2017, 08:32:50 PM
May it be the first of many more .
The more disruption and isolation that Russia receives will only accelerate the demise of the Putin kleptocracy.


Russian banks cut off from SWIFT for working in Crimea

The main Russian bank working in Russian-occupied Crimea and one other have been informed that the company providing their connection to the SWIFT network will terminate its services from 31 August.  According to Vedomosti’s two unnamed sources, Finastra has taken the decision because both the Russian National Commercial Bank [RNCB] and Tempbank, in which Russia’s Central Bank has introduced temporary administration, are under international sanctions.  In the case of RNCB, this is specifically over its work in Crimea.

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1503759946

Perhaps you'd have been better to read the original article, JayH ? ..The source ?

http://www.vedomosti.ru/finance/articles/2017/08/24/730906-krupneishii-rossiiskii-bank (http://www.vedomosti.ru/finance/articles/2017/08/24/730906-krupneishii-rossiiskii-bank)

IF you had, you'd have understood that a western software firm decided not to co-operate with it's Russian partner- having done a risk assessment - re it possibly being in breach of sanctions.. and that the bank would be able to use other firms software... but it would cost tens of thousands of dollars..   IF you cared to check  RNSC was already affected by the sanctions and could not use SWIFT... 

So.. not more 'bad news'.. Just more ill-researched cutting and pasting..



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 07, 2017, 08:51:23 PM
According to one fresh report about the Kerch Bridge fiasco.. :rolleyes:

     One support sunk a meter and anotuher one sunk 1/2 meter :clapping:
Work has stopped and the workers were told to keep their lips sealed. Like that happened eh?  :rolleyes:


You'll need to use your translator.

http://www.infoaccent.net/chast-kerchenskogo-mosta-ukhodit-pod-vodu-raboty-ostanovleny/?_utl_t=fb



Mikey,

I don't know if your story is factual -  these photos suggest shipping is passing under the railway span - just fine...There is no maritime info that there is a danger to shipping or that the passage to the Asov Sea is closed..

http://www.most.life/novosti/novosti/bolshoj-desantnyj-korabl-azov-vpervye-proshel-pod-arkoj-krymskogo-mosta/ (http://www.most.life/novosti/novosti/bolshoj-desantnyj-korabl-azov-vpervye-proshel-pod-arkoj-krymskogo-mosta/)

(http://www.most.life/media/images/azov_1.2e16d0ba.fill-790x530.jpg)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 08, 2017, 10:43:44 AM
It didn't say it was the main span now did it?   Nor was naything mentioned about shipping being hindered..   :rolleyes:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 08, 2017, 12:10:20 PM
It didn't say it was the main span now did it?   Nor was naything mentioned about shipping being hindered..   :rolleyes:

Work hasn't stopped, either ..     on either bridge...   As I keep saying this is Putin's vanity project ..it cannot fail ))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 09, 2017, 11:18:30 AM
Any proof of all phases going on and not just most?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on September 09, 2017, 02:02:31 PM
There are two bridges being built side by side one for vehicles and the other for rail service. The article indicates the vehicle bridge sank before it could be lifted onto the support pylons, but the image shown is of the rail bridge.

The image that msmob posted is indeed the rail bridge, looking proud. On the web site there is only a visualization of the road way. What if anything has happened is unknown.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on September 09, 2017, 02:17:27 PM
AkMike said "One support sunk a meter and anotuher one sunk 1/2 meter" If true, the bridge may experience long term problems. Engineering or construction is bad. Support columns depth into the ground is based on where hard bedrock is. Two columns sinking quickly is a bad sign they didn't drill deep enough to place the concrete columns on bedrock. Other columns may sink slowly over time if they used the same flawed construction methods and/or engineering. Costly repairs or they can make it a rough ride to Crimea.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on September 09, 2017, 02:23:50 PM
AkMike said "One support sunk a meter and anotuher one sunk 1/2 meter" If true, the bridge may experience long term problems. Engineering or construction is bad. Support columns depth into the ground is based on where hard bedrock is. Two columns sinking quickly is a bad sign they didn't drill deep enough to place the concrete columns on bedrock. Other columns may sink slowly over time if they used the same flawed construction methods and/or engineering. Costly repairs or they can make it a rough ride to Crimea.

 :ROFL:

Perhaps it would be better to understand the geology and sea bed of the Sea of Azov. If this is a challenge than look at how high rise buildings and bridges are engineered and built in The Netherlands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on September 09, 2017, 02:41:02 PM
:ROFL:

. . . built in The Netherlands.

Y'all are stealing space from the oceans.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on September 09, 2017, 02:45:47 PM
Y'all are stealing space from the oceans.

Sort of doubt the lobsters have much of a say in the matter.

The other option is like Russia stealing it from Ukraine.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on September 09, 2017, 02:57:11 PM
Perhaps it would be better to understand the geology and sea bed of the Sea of Azov.



Putin better hope his engineers understand that. They may want to keep problems from him for the time being. I do this for a living and on a few jobs, helped put piles in the ground that was once the sea in order to support buildings. In the old days, they filled up the sea with dirt and supported buildings on that fill dirt with regular footings. Ground shifts, then concrete cracks. Made my job to demolition the old buildings to make way for the new easier.


  If this is a challenge than look at how high rise buildings and bridges are engineered and built in The Netherlands.



Same for buildings and bridge on and to Manhattan Island, NY. Engineering 101 for structural engineers should've taught them about the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Can't have a good structure without a good foundation.


Y'all are stealing space from the oceans.


We've done it too. I've seen before and after photos of Seattle where they've mass excavated hills and filled in the Puget Sound to create more real estate.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on September 09, 2017, 03:12:17 PM

Putin better hope his engineers understand that. They may want to keep problems from him for the time being. I do this for a living and on a few jobs, helped put piles in the ground that was once the sea in order to support buildings. In the old days, they filled up the sea with dirt and supported buildings on that fill dirt with regular footings. Ground shifts, then concrete cracks. Made my job to demolition the old buildings to make way for the new easier.


What is of serious concern none of the European (primarily Dutch) firms wanted anything to do with this project, when it was first floated.*

Putin is disregarding ecological concerns. I suspect time will tell and I hope the bridges are engineered correctly. A some what comparable project was the Chesapeake Bay Bridge–Tunnel, now some 50 odd years old.

* pun intended
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 09, 2017, 03:42:32 PM
:ROFL:

Perhaps it would be better to understand the geology and sea bed of the Sea of Azov. If this is a challenge than look at how high rise buildings and bridges are engineered and built in The Netherlands.

The geology is quite different---  and many experts say the bridge will not survive.
Recent reports are of Dutch companies breaking sanctions -- hopefully they will be prosecuted and never work again in the west.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 09, 2017, 10:58:43 PM

Recent reports are of Dutch companies breaking sanctions -- hopefully they will be prosecuted and never work again in the west.

'Recent reports'....Source(s), please ?

What is of serious concern none of the European (primarily Dutch) firms wanted anything to do with this project, when it was first floated.

Even RU firms didn't want to take it on, but BillyB's suggestion that any issues might be covered up seems a little far fetched given the symbiotic relationship Putin and the company awarded the main contract enjoy.

Work continues ..on both bridges...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 10, 2017, 11:09:59 AM
No mention of Moldie's sources so it must'a been a little birdie passin thru.   :cluebat:


 That also may mean that allphases of work have stopped and workers are quiet under threat of being sent a bit more north-east to the Donesk area.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 10, 2017, 03:33:42 PM
I believe moby's source is his eyes.  Probably the best source provided here.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 10, 2017, 03:47:10 PM
I believe moby's source is his eyes.  Probably the best source provided here.

Moby is full of BS -- not credible. He simply does not know .
There are numerous reports on serious problems on the bridge floating around.
Nothing coming from the Moscow end is credible. Av pointed out  a couple of posts above that the official website only contains computer generated stylised photos and video's -- it makes you wonder why not real photos?
That said --I do not trust a lot of the other information floating around either--  I want to see more/better info and not wishful thinking in reports.
That said -there are still plenty of credible reports of problems . The extent- that is still unanswered for me.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 10, 2017, 06:18:06 PM
moby didn't refer to problems.  Just that both bridges are being built, and that's accurate.  I have a relative living in Kerch.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BdHvA on September 10, 2017, 06:39:15 PM
moby didn't refer to problems.  Just that both bridges are being built, and that's accurate.  I have a relative living in Kerch.

Moby posted an image of the rail bridge in its final location, with a Russian naval vessel passing.

The image in the article is of the same bridge before being lifted to the pylons or supports.

It seems the issue is regarding the road bridge and I guess the temporary supports have failed or are failing. There are a number of options that the builders and engineers can use to solve this setback.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 10, 2017, 09:48:40 PM
The report didn't mention weither it was a temporary support or a permanent one.

 I hope it was a permanent one sinking into the bottomless silt found there.  :clapping: :clapping:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 10, 2017, 09:54:48 PM


 I hope it was a permanent one sinking into the botomless silt found there.  :clapping: :clapping:

 :applause: :applause:

And may the whole structure sink into oblivion.  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 11, 2017, 12:43:16 AM
I believe moby's source is his eyes. 


While hanging out at Sochi? Way over 400 kms away?  :rolleyes: 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 11, 2017, 01:24:21 AM
No mention of Moldie's sources so it must'a been a little birdie passin thru.   :cluebat:

My 'sources' are folks working ON the bridge ..   
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 11, 2017, 01:31:05 AM

While hanging out at Sochi? Way over 400 kms away?  :rolleyes:

Sochi is in Krasnodarsky Krai - the region where the bridge will reach landfall at the eastern end...     The local news discusses it  'often' ...   

Things like buses - carrying workers-  crashing off into the sea....     I was waiting to sea if this would be reported as 'bad news' ..

Stuff like work being suspended  WOULD be mentioned....
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 12, 2017, 09:44:54 AM
There's a fresh Russian investigation by the FBI. But this time they're looking into Sputnik News to see if "it is acting as an undeclared propaganda arm of the Kremlin in violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA).

For alot more about this have a look at the link.

http://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/sputnik-russian-news-agency-investigation-fbi-090024231.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 14, 2017, 07:15:09 AM
Russia Today is forced to register as a foriegn agent spewing the Kremlins propaganda.  :clapping:


http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/350226-russian-network-rt-must-register-as-foreign-agent-in
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 14, 2017, 07:22:59 AM
So, Mikey...

what do you think will happen?

Will RT close, or will it have to run a disclaimer saying it is  funded by the Russian Govt and carry on ?

I'm a little concerned that the likes of the BBC will get caught up in any following tit for tat action.

Your 'bad news' does not affect us outside the USA

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 14, 2017, 08:29:03 AM
Your 'bad news' does not affect us outside the USA


 Don't care either. :rolleyes:   It just exposes them for being tools of the midget and his crew.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 14, 2017, 08:45:10 AM
The US Homeland Security has finally banned the use of Kapersky Lab software for 'security reasons'.  Agencys have 1 month to map out the use and 3 to begin removal of the software.




http://themoscowtimes.com/news/united-states-bans-kaspersky-lab-products-over-security-concerns-58942
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 14, 2017, 12:59:01 PM

 Don't care either. :rolleyes:

YOU should ... you don't live in the USA ...

  It just exposes them for being tools of the midget and his crew.

Actually, the action is likely to result in non govt owned US owned news agencies being banned in Russia .... (

Me, I trust folks to disseminate
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 14, 2017, 10:38:26 PM
If so then Russia will continue to alienate itself from the rest of the world. The west can get along fine w/o Russia.  But Russia continues to  go down the path of imperialism and cause problems and sponsor terrorism to that end.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 14, 2017, 11:42:35 PM
The US Homeland Security has finally banned the use of Kapersky Lab software for 'security reasons'.  Agencys have 1 month to map out the use and 3 to begin removal of the software.




http://themoscowtimes.com/news/united-states-bans-kaspersky-lab-products-over-security-concerns-58942

I have used this firm for AntiVirus for years and in tests against competitors - it has always fared well.  I have no idea if they co-operate with Russian secret services.......

An IT owner I know refuses to fit Chinese routers and switches in his network - preferring Cisco - lest there is some firmware that could be invoked ..

Bear in mind the US has admitted spying on EU leaders ...



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 15, 2017, 12:07:19 AM
If so then Russia will continue to alienate itself from the rest of the world. The west can get along fine w/o Russia.

Untrue, many nations rely - heavily - on RU for Energy... like it or not


  But Russia continues to  go down the path of imperialism and cause problems and sponsor terrorism to that end.

More accurately, it's leaders seem to believe in resetting borders based on ethnic Russians presence from Soviet times whilst discouraging political opposition from within. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 15, 2017, 12:15:37 AM
And yet anonther round of santions is extended against Russia from the EU.   One of these day Russia might have to consider playing nice with otheres so it doesn't have a 'time out' for being bad.


http://eutoday.net/news/politics/2017/eu-sanctions-against-russia-extended
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: rw_recruiter on September 15, 2017, 12:25:31 AM
An IT owner I know refuses to fit Chinese routers and switches in his network - preferring Cisco - lest there is some firmware that could be invoked ..

Cisco routers are on of the most counterfeited hardware appliances on the market    :)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billsinger/2011/11/08/clever-cisco-china-counterfeit-conspiracy-crushed/#70dcdc9a118c (http://www.forbes.com/sites/billsinger/2011/11/08/clever-cisco-china-counterfeit-conspiracy-crushed/#70dcdc9a118c)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2920032/uk-gang-arrested-for-exporting-10-million-of-fake-cisco-gear-to-us.html (http://www.pcworld.com/article/2920032/uk-gang-arrested-for-exporting-10-million-of-fake-cisco-gear-to-us.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 15, 2017, 12:31:55 AM
For the 5th day in a row hundreds of thousands of Russians have had their days disrupted by a wave of telephone bomb threats scattered across Russia.


http://www.rferl.org/a/russia-mysterious-bomb-threats-theories/28736860.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 15, 2017, 01:59:19 AM
Cisco routers are on of the most counterfeited hardware appliances on the market    :)

So you buy from Cisco partners .... ? ))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 15, 2017, 02:04:56 AM
For the 5th day in a row hundreds of thousands of Russians have had their days disrupted by a wave of telephone bomb threats scattered across Russia.


http://www.rferl.org/a/russia-mysterious-bomb-threats-theories/28736860.html

As opposed to real explosion in London ?

Why is it folks wish bad on a people in general because of the actions of leaders or idiots who think they are freedom fighters...

I have no time for folks who distrust Americans or Russians....   I spent too many years being told Irish people were terrorists and the British were 100 percent entitled to be in Northern Ireland
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 15, 2017, 02:14:05 AM
As opposed to real explosion in London ?

Why is it folks wish bad on a people in general because of the actions of leaders ...

I have no time for folks who distrust ............. Russians....   
They would be the same people  that are in denial of the murderous actions being committed in Ukraine by Russian military !
When the Russian people have the guts to stand against the actions of their leaders --then your comments might mean something.

Thousands of Ukrainians killed-- millions displaced --the whole country paying for Russia's actions -- and you whine about  Mikes post-sheesh. :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 15, 2017, 02:51:41 AM
LONDON? How about the car bombing assassination of a Col. in Ukraines Miltary Intelligence recently? In the middle of Kyiv in traffic.  Oh and there is also the woman in the car that lost he leg as well as the 10 year old in th back seat.


Of course we all know who's behind it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 15, 2017, 11:33:57 AM
They would be the same people  that are in denial of the murderous actions being committed in Ukraine by Russian military !
When the Russian people have the guts to stand against the actions of their leaders --then your comments might mean something. 

Yawns ... When WHERE you in Russia, last ? ... Many Russians are sad that the 'Ukrainians brothers'  and they are at loggerheads .... 

Thousands of Ukrainians killed-- millions displaced --the whole country paying for Russia's actions -- and you whine about  Mikes post-sheesh. :deadhorse:

Many of the Ukrainians who died now didn't feel Ukrainian - esp after their believing Moscow's anti-maidan 'Nazi -American' rhetoric ....   :(

Lots of British thought Irish people were bad for sheltering terrorists in the South ...




Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 15, 2017, 02:00:34 PM
Yawns ... When WHERE you in Russia, last ? ... Many Russians are sad that the 'Ukrainians brothers'  and they are at loggerheads .... 

Many of the Ukrainians who died now didn't feel Ukrainian - esp after their believing Moscow's anti-maidan 'Nazi -American' rhetoric ....   :(

Lots of British thought Irish people were bad for sheltering terrorists in the South ...

Do we both speak English?  Or is Moby drinking again?  None of the second to the last sentence makes sense to me.  How can someone who's dead think anything?  Of course, English English might be totally different than American English.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GQBlues on September 15, 2017, 02:39:07 PM
And yet anonther round of santions is extended against Russia from the EU.   One of these day Russia might have to consider playing nice with otheres so it doesn't have a 'time out' for being bad.

 :)

In the not-too-distant future, Europeans will be clamoring and tripping over each other vying to be Russia's lap mate. A little more Arctic ice melt, the global market, notably Europeans, will be paying Russian toll to cut almost a month off their Asian trade route.

~"...What else is destabilizing, he says, is Russia's military build up along something called the Northern Sea Route skirting the Russian Arctic coastline. The route could become an alternative to the Suez Canal, saving huge amounts of time and money for the commercial shipping industry.

I have heard as much as 28 days decrease in some of the transit from the northern European markets to the Asian markets. That is an incredible economic opportunity. And it could be a very boon— big boon to business around the world....."
~ Phillip Breedlove

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-arctic-frontier-lesley-stahl-2/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 15, 2017, 10:49:58 PM
Amazing how we still have so much ignorance being posted by russophiles here on forum.
Apart from the invasions of Ukraine -Russia is and has been conducting  an all out cyber war -- as well as "conventional" terrorism as a matter of course>

In the news today -- the next continuing and upgraded phase of Russian terrorism in Ukraine is attack in all sorts of ways across Ukraine.Car bombings in Kyiv.Lviv,Odesa in recent weeks, assassinations, mysterious deaths of targeted people have been common place.Scattergun attacks in public places is now on the agenda -- all with the intent of trying to convince Ukrainians that the government is not in control--   and to of course  --attempt to direct the coming election results .

A group of Chechens and Dagestanis with explosives detained in southern Ukraine

Eight people, including those from Dagestan and Chechnya, were detained during a search in one of the residential buildings of the village of Chernobaevka in the Kherson region.

According to the department, members of the group aged 28 to 45 years acted under the guise of a patriotic organization of Ukraine.

http://www.kavkazr.com/a/28737674.html?nocache=1
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 16, 2017, 12:48:07 AM
Do we both speak English?  Or is Moby drinking again?


IF we both understand English, when did  we 'establish that I was posting - or had posted - in an inebriated state ?  ..more JayH  diversionary tactics ? You remind me of some guy who claims to be an 'expert' on Finland and Russia ..
 ...

  None of the second to the last sentence makes sense to me.  How can someone who's dead think anything?  Of course, English English might be totally different than American English.

My point... which you may also be trying to avoid was that many who have died / been injured - they can talk - btw - don't really trust Moscow or Kyiv anymore...((
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 16, 2017, 01:32:37 AM
When the russophiles start condemning Russia for it's actions in general -- but specifically in Ukraine -- and stop making excuses  then their credibility may increase -- whether sober or drug affected is another issue .

In Kiev, Putin's killers are operating: US private intelligence has learned about the string of high-profile killings in Ukraine

 Iintelligence noted that the Russian special services have a long history of involvement in the killings and persecuted the enemies of power around the world.

At the same time, Stratfor added that in Ukraine, Russians and their Chechen henchmen acted mostly openly. So, in 2016 in the center of Kiev as a result of the car bombing the Belarusian and Ukrainian journalist, critic of the Russian authorities Pavel Sheremet was killed. The next was the Russian journalist Alexander Schetinin, who criticized Russian President Vladimir Putin.

He was found dead in August of 2016 on the balcony of his own house in Kiev with a gunshot wound to the head. In March 2017, former State Duma deputy Denis Voronenkov was killed in the center of Kiev, who testified against the runaway ex-president of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych. Later, an attempt was made on the well-known critic of the Chechen government Adam Osmayev.

He was attacked by Russian citizen Artur Denisultanov-Kurmakaev, who introduced himself as a French journalist. June 27, 2017 was blown up by the colonel of military intelligence of Ukraine Maxim Shapoval. In intelligence, they stressed that Kiev has become a dangerous place for those who are perceived as the enemy of Putin and his Chechen "vassal" Kadyrov.

 Also in Stratfor reminded of the explosion in the center of Kiev car in which Timur Makhauri was traveling. It is emphasized that this murder has all the signs of a professional, state-funded special operation.

 "The device built into the car of Makhauri was almost certainly done by a professional who calculated the explosive force to eliminate the target without causing too much collateral loss," the report said.


 http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/v-kyeve-oruduyut-kyllery-putyna-chastnaya-razvedka-ssha-uznala-o-cherede-gromkyh-ubyjstv-v-ukrayne/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 16, 2017, 04:07:06 AM
When the russophiles start condemning Russia for it's actions in general -- but specifically in Ukraine -- and stop making excuses  then their credibility may increase -- whether sober or drug affected is another issue .


JayH, you REALLY did to deal with your selective reading difficulties..  I am neither a Russophobe or Russophile..    Unlike you - I observe from within Russia and meet folk from Donbas who are friends with other Ukrainians resident or on hols in Sochi. 

It is amusing to be tagged with either adjective...  Once again, you remind me of some strange folk elsewhere who receive monies whilst pushing an agenda..... 

 In Kiev, Putin's killers are operating: US private intelligence has learned about the string of high-profile killings in Ukraine

Iintelligence noted that the Russian special services have a long history of involvement in the killings and persecuted the enemies of power around the world.

At the same time, Stratfor added that in Ukraine, Russians and their Chechen henchmen acted mostly openly. So, in 2016 in the center of Kiev as a result of the car bombing the Belarusian and Ukrainian journalist, critic of the Russian authorities Pavel Sheremet was killed. The next was the Russian journalist Alexander Schetinin, who criticized Russian President Vladimir Putin.

He was found dead in August of 2016 on the balcony of his own house in Kiev with a gunshot wound to the head. In March 2017, former State Duma deputy Denis Voronenkov was killed in the center of Kiev, who testified against the runaway ex-president of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych. Later, an attempt was made on the well-known critic of the Chechen government Adam Osmayev.

He was attacked by Russian citizen Artur Denisultanov-Kurmakaev, who introduced himself as a French journalist. June 27, 2017 was blown up by the colonel of military intelligence of Ukraine Maxim Shapoval. In intelligence, they stressed that Kiev has become a dangerous place for those who are perceived as the enemy of Putin and his Chechen "vassal" Kadyrov.

 Also in Stratfor reminded of the explosion in the center of Kiev car in which Timur Makhauri was traveling. It is emphasized that this murder has all the signs of a professional, state-funded special operation.

 "The device built into the car of Makhauri was almost certainly done by a professional who calculated the explosive force to eliminate the target without causing too much collateral loss," the report said.


 http://www.amn.com.ua/podiyi/v-kyeve-oruduyut-kyllery-putyna-chastnaya-razvedka-ssha-uznala-o-cherede-gromkyh-ubyjstv-v-ukrayne/

JayH,  journos were losing their heads in Kuchma's presidency 25 years ago ...   It is a sad fact that in UA / RU folks can be bumped off for cash paid by sources that are hard to prove.

Politicians / jornos that ted to side with Moscow have also met with death / been maimed

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 18, 2017, 12:45:36 AM
It is always interesting to read insiders perspective and real information . Not much nice being said about Putin's Russia

HIDDEN within the Soviet system were able, conscientious officials who were appalled by the crimes and lies they were asked to defend. One of them was Andrei Kovalev, a diplomat who under Mikhail Gorbachev helped dismantle some of the worst abuses of what he freely accepts was an evil empire. Now living in western Europe, Mr Kovalev is a piercing critic of Vladimir Putin’s misrule of Russia

How Russia went wrong, as told from the inside

The central argument of the book is that Russia has returned to the dangerous stagnation of the 1980s, largely thanks to the resurgence of the old KGB. The authoritarian squeeze will worsen at home, Mr Kovalev predicts, while foreign policy will become increasingly hostile and unpredictable. In the long run he fears a break-up of Russia, before—possibly—the dawn of democracy, the rule of law and modernisation.

His language is strikingly blunt. Mr Putin is a “mumbling, stammering knock-kneed brow-furrowing ex-KGB agent who speaks the language of the gutter and values power above everything”. Echoing Alexander Herzen, a 19th-century émigré who declared Russia to be suffering from “patriotic syphilis”, Mr Kovalev diagnoses in his country “manic-depressive psychosis…acute megalomania, persecution complex and kleptomania”. Foreigners who write like this are accused of Russophobia. But it is hard to bring that charge against the erudite Mr Kovalev, with his long and distinguished public service.

http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21728877-andrei-kovalev-says-things-no-outsider-could-about-russias-megalomania-persecution?fsrc=scn%2Ffb%2Fte%2Fbl%2Fed%2Fhowrussiawentwrongastoldfromtheinside
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 18, 2017, 05:38:50 AM
HIDDEN within the Soviet system were able, conscientious officials who were appalled by the crimes and lies they were asked to defend. One of them was Andrei Kovalev, a diplomat who under Mikhail Gorbachev helped dismantle some of the worst abuses of what he freely accepts was an evil empire. Now living in western Europe, Mr Kovalev is a piercing critic of Vladimir Putin’s misrule of Russia


The first sentence displays a Western understanding of the USSR.  Only a Westerner, or a Soviet who is trying to remake him/herself, would make such a statement.  Believe me, there were no strangers or "dissidents" among the nomenklatura.  Even most of the dissidents, who came from the academic/artistic classes, didn't object to Bolshevism, just in how it was being implemented.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 19, 2017, 05:36:03 AM


U.S. Senate green-lights $500 mln in disbursement, lethal weapons for Ukraine




:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/449535.html








Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 20, 2017, 10:43:31 AM
They have been getting trounced by many at the UN so rather than take more flack, "
Russian delegation walks out when Lithuania’s president addresses UN General Assembly"

http://lithuaniannews.net/russian-delegation-walks-out-when-lithuanias-president-addresses-un-general-assembly/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 20, 2017, 11:02:29 AM
Isn't it annoying when some folks post like they think we all need glasses ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 20, 2017, 11:23:24 AM

U.S. Senate green-lights $500 mln in disbursement, lethal weapons for Ukraine




:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/449535.html










Ukraine is a long way from seeing any such money.  It would take an announced policy change from Trump to provide such help.  Obama wasn't forthcoming. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 20, 2017, 12:59:44 PM
Suck it up cupcake.
 That's what came out with a simple copy/ paste. Only on this forum is there a problem with that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 20, 2017, 02:04:01 PM
Mikey,

I suspect you've got something ticked you shouldn't have .. I think I pointed you in the right direction, before... IF it wasn't you - sorry

IF Sandro picks this up - he'll remember

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 20, 2017, 06:23:47 PM
That's what came out with a simple copy/ paste. Only on this forum is there a problem with that.
AkMike, your copy/paste included at the beginning this size statement:
Code: [Select]
[size=35px]that caused a VERY large font size to be used for your following text. Here at RWD size statements are expressed in points, not in pixels (px), so you must have picked it up somewhere else.

Piece of advice: before posting, use the "Preview" feature, it'll show what your post will look like ;).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on September 20, 2017, 06:45:33 PM

U.S. Senate green-lights $500 mln in disbursement, lethal weapons for Ukraine




:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/449535.html











100 million is also going to the Balkins to deter Russian aggression.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 25, 2017, 02:07:30 PM
Meanwhile --the pressure mounts on ordinary Russians --  people it seems that Moby never meets !! :deadhorse:


70 Percent of Russians Now Can’t Make Their Income Last from One Paycheck to the Next


Seventy percent of Russians say that their pay doesn’t last from one paycheck to the next, 63 percent say they are experiencing the inflation the authorities deny is happening, and 70 percent are at or near the poverty level (newsland.com/community/129/content/70-protsentam-rossiian-ne-khvataet-deneg-do-zarplaty/6002765, newsland.com/community/8171/content/fom-rost-tsen-za-poslednie-mesiatsy-zametili-63-zhitelei-rossii/6004342 and politsturm.com/70-rossiyan-zhivut-u-cherty-bednosti/).Russia, wallet, rubles, income, poverty, economy, poor (Image: AiF)

Forty percent of Russians say they had to change their vacation plans because of a lack of funds (regnum.ru/news/omy/2324354.html),
Officials blocked 12,000 Russians from going abroad this summer because they had unpaid debts (iz.ru/646710/tatiana-berseneva/pogranichniki-ne-vypustili-iz-rossii-pochti-12-tysiach-dolzhnikov),

Wage arrears and protests over them are both increasing across the country
(lenta.ru/news/2017/09/22/miners/, idelreal.org/a/28737681.html and graniru.org/Politics/Russia/activism/m.264081.html),

To add insult to injury, the Russian government has cut pensions even as experts say the average Russian pension is 30 percent smaller than the official statistics suggest


 (lenta.ru/news/2017/09/20/cut/ and newsland.com/community/4765/content/sredniaia-pensiia-rossiian-okazalas-na-30-menshe-ofitsialnoi/6001935), and
The government has rejected out of hand proposals that the government share with Russians some of the money it gets from the sale of oil and other natural resources abroad

 (ura.news/news/1052305240).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 25, 2017, 02:15:51 PM
The statistical results of the Kremlins  intent to make Russia a pariah state are impacting internally now to a savage degree.Now is the time for the west to step up the economic pressure on Russia --to make it clear that the west will pay the price of the sanctions-- and that Russia simply cant afford it's military invasion of Ukraine.


Russian Banking System on Brink of Collapse


The Russian banking system is on the brink of collapse according to Russian officials, commentators, and the population
(newsland.com/community/4765/content/v-tsb-rf-vidiat-budushchee-ekonomiki-rossii-v-chernom-tsvete/6001947, kp.ru/daily/26735.7/3761645/ and regnum.ru/news/omy/2323031.html).+

Russians not only are losing confidence in banks but purchasing dollars in order to protect themselves in case of a banking collapse (profile.ru/obsch/item/119648-sberezheniya and lenta.ru/news/2017/09/19/usddemand/).



Two-thirds of Russians now say that the country’s economic course should be changed
(newsland.com/community/4788/content/dve-treti-rossiian-vyskazalis-za-smenu-ekonomicheskogo-kursa/6001418),

But half of all Russians say they doubt the state can do anything positive to help overcome the crisis (newsland.com/community/5862/content/50-rossiian-ne-vidiat-smysla-v-ekonomicheskikh-deistviiakh-gosudarstva/6004472),
"Topol ICBMs are not afraid of the [Western] sanctions!" and "Sanctions? Don't make laugh my Iskander missiles!" - Moscow propaganda t-shirts said in 2014. (Image: social media)
“A Topol ICBM is not afraid of the [Western] sanctions!” and “Sanctions? Don’t make my Iskander missiles laugh!” – Moscow propaganda t-shirts said in 2014 after the sanctions were introduced. (Image: social media)

The UN says that Russia has lost some 55 billion US dollars in income because of the post-Crimea sanctions (newsland.com/community/4852/content/oon-rossiia-poteriala-iz-za-sanktsii-55-mlrd/5998494),

Capital flight has intensified (zavtra.ru/word_of_day/napyorstochniki_2017-09-12),

The quantity of imports has fallen to a record low (iz.ru/647722/anna-ivushkina/importozameshchenie-obnovilo-rekord),

The number of cars sold in Russia has fallen by more than half since 2012 (business-gazeta.ru/article/358405), and

Demand for new construction in Moscow has fallen as well (rbc.ru/business/19/09/2017/59bfc9d69a7947e9b2e0a92d?from=main).




http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/09/25/russian-banking-system-on-brink-of-collapse-and-other-neglected-russian-stories-euromaidan-press/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on September 25, 2017, 02:40:39 PM
Since Russia is in such a bad state . . . what has happened to the price of buying a Russian wife?
Will there be bargains to be had soon?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 25, 2017, 03:12:03 PM
Since Russia is in such a bad state . . . what has happened to the price of buying a Russian wife?
Will there be bargains to be had soon?

I can only hope Trenchcoat put's his attention into Russia .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on September 25, 2017, 05:34:29 PM
I can only hope Trenchcoat put's his attention into Russia .

Hardly - he would have to buy a visa!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 25, 2017, 09:28:05 PM
Well, I just hope it doesn't collapse, today. selling a car and buying another apt ;)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 26, 2017, 12:55:54 AM
Meanwhile --the pressure mounts on ordinary Russians --  people it seems that Moby never meets !! :deadhorse:

Remind us again, JayH ... WHICH one of us sees reality - not your copy and pastes - some of which are from UKRAINE ! ?


I have no doubt folks are finding it hard and that Russia - like most states has a Pension funding crisis - You get a state pension far earlier in Russia than in the west... and the Pension is better in real terms than in Ukraine. 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 26, 2017, 07:50:07 AM
Alas the topic isn't Ukraine, it's about the poor state of the Russian economy due to the invasion of Ukraine and the drop in oil prices.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 26, 2017, 02:04:31 PM
Alas the topic isn't Ukraine, it's about the poor state of the Russian economy due to the invasion of Ukraine and the drop in oil prices.

The topic is 'more bad news for Russia' and more often than not Ukrainian sources are quoted ...  even in JayH's latest post ..

The poor state of the economy is due to mismanagement, greed and corruption- exacerbated by oil / gas price falls and Crimea was a stunt to deflect from this... The sanctions by the west  have targeted players and their businesses - not man in the street - and have been countered by protectionism stunts in the food  industry 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on September 26, 2017, 02:44:08 PM
As we move into a bullish market for Oil, I believe that the Russian economy will get a huge boost.  Once again, the true winners are the Chinese.  As they have committed the Russians to selling them oil at discounted rates in exchange for bailing out their economy in the past three years.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 26, 2017, 11:24:33 PM
It seems to be going our way.. Lethal weapons for Ukraine.


"[/size]The top U.S. military commander has said he recommended that the White House provide lethal defensive aid to Ukraine so it can better defend itself against any possible further Russian military advances into the country."[/color]


http://www.rferl.org/a/us-military-chief-dunford-says-recommends-providing-ukraine-lethal-defensive-aid/28759423.html


 Deal with it moldy, the previeew button doesn't work so it may have weird font still.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 26, 2017, 11:25:56 PM
Piece of advice: before posting, use the "Preview" feature, it'll show what your post will look like ;) .


The preview button doesn't work Sandoro.  I tried.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 26, 2017, 11:35:40 PM
SAndro,

Mikey's got that thingy ticked which shouldn't be ticked, but I can't remember where it is in settings to help him .. his posts look eevn 'better' now, anyway ;)

 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 27, 2017, 12:33:19 AM
The United Nations Human Rights office published its latest report today on the situation in occupied Crimea and noted 'Grave Human Rights Violations'.

UN Report Condemns Russia Over Human Rights Abuses In Occupied Crimea


__7yizC0

http://youtu.be/Qwn__7yizC0?t=45

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on September 27, 2017, 12:39:28 AM
Alas the topic isn't Ukraine, it's about the poor state of the Russian economy due to the invasion of Ukraine and the drop in oil prices.

How that sticks in the throat of the stupid Russophiles !
The bad news in Russia in the title relates to the consequences of the Kremlin stupidity . :deadhorse:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on September 27, 2017, 01:15:38 AM
But moby's post is not inaccurate.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg468970#msg468970
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on September 27, 2017, 02:36:12 AM
How that sticks in the throat of the stupid Russophiles !
The bad news in Russia in the title relates to the consequences of the Kremlin stupidity . :deadhorse:

I do hope you are not losing your ability to reason, JayH 

Any chance you could deal with my point ... that even an eth. Ukrainian can see ?



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: AkMike on September 27, 2017, 03:42:46 AM
IIRC it was the "WYSIWYG ". It keeps resetting itself to show it's checked.  Why?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: SANDRO43 on September 27, 2017, 05:48:33 AM
IIRC it was the "WYSIWYG ". It keeps resetting itself to show it's checked.  Why?
No idea, I looked at your profile now and it is UNchecked. Maybe you forgot to press "Change profile" at bottom, so the change was NOT put into effect.

The line below was added with WYSIWYG turned on:
[size=78%]Also no idea why the "Preview" should not work for you[/size] ::) [/size][size=78%].[/size]

You can see the weird SIZE parameters that WYSIWYG inserts, as in your previous:
It seems to be going our way.. Lethal weapons for Ukraine.
"[/size]The top U.S. military commander has said he recommended that the White House provide lethal defensive aid to Ukraine so it can better defend itself against any possible further Russian military advances into the country."[/color]
Deal with it moldy, the previeew button doesn't work so it may have weird font still.
That is the reason why we recommend to turn it OFF. I guess your problem - except for "Preview" - was forgetting to make it stick ;).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2017, 03:43:11 PM
I see you guys are still hoping to bury Russia? Good luck!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 15, 2017, 03:52:55 PM
I see you guys are still hoping to bury Russia? Good luck!
:cluebat:
Not "our" doing-- the "credit" is all Putin & the Kremlin kleptocracy's doing ! :wallbash:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2017, 04:05:16 PM
 
(http://s016.radikal.ru/i337/1710/9d/f0a4cca39682.jpg) (http://radikal.ru)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 15, 2017, 04:17:09 PM


 
In a classical example of Russian suggestions that “everything new is the well-forgotten old,” Nakanune commentator Elena Kiryakova suggests that the challenges Russia faces now echo the threats it encountered a century ago, but with one essential difference.

The notorious xenophobic and anti-Semitic Black Hundreds of the late imperial period have returned in force, she says; but the centrist and leftist forces that opposed them a century ago have not, thus opening the way to a truly horrific future unless something is done and done soon.

She cites with approval the conclusions of Russian historian Aleksandr Kolpakidi


The Black Hundreds of 1917 have returned to Russia


Russia now faces “the very same threats and internal contradictions which the empire encountered on the eve of the October Revolution” but lacks any “’heirs of the Bolsheviks’” and so is drifting toward the extreme right, something that will provoke an explosion.


http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/10/15/the-black-hundreds-of-1917-have-returned-to-russia-euromaidan-press/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 15, 2017, 04:58:08 PM
More !!



Russian President Vladimir Putin is far from reforming and is leading not only himself, but the whole of Russia to destruction.

This opinion was expressed by the famous Russian political scientist Stanislav Belkovsky on the air of the radio station Ekho Moskvy .

Putin  is leading not only himself, but the whole of Russia to destruction.


"Vladimir Vladimirovich simply went to the stage of self-destruction, he destroys the system that brought him up, but the KGB, the Cheka and the FSB, which he no longer exists in his mind, destroys the Russian Federation." He turned it off from the Western funding on which the Russian Federation was built. He turned it off from Western technologies, which are an immanent condition for the existence of the Russian Federation, because without this modern technology this country can not exist

http://vesti-ua.net/novosti/politika/49284-specialisty-govoryat-o-samoy-posledney-stadii-u-putina.htm
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on October 15, 2017, 05:03:26 PM
I see you guys are still hoping to bury Russia? Good luck!

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want Russia buried - I like it too much.  I just want to see Putin gone, together with the rest of his corrupt kleptocracy, so that your beautiful country may have a chance to regain the position it had before he came to power.

And, like pretty much everyone who comments on the forum, I want Russia out of Ukraine - completely - so that they too can have a chance of reducing their corruption and increasing everything good without having to continually worry about attacks from the East.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2017, 05:08:56 PM
Enjoy reading "ua.net"))))))))))
Putin's rating is extremely high, he is supported by the vast majority.

While you're "sitting" here, I go to RF regularly and know what people think and how they live (not all of them of course but still).
Life is different there now but not dreadful .
All these "black hundreds" and other horrors are just your imagination.
Russia is as strong as it was before- even stronger.
(Heroyam slava ahahaaaaaaaaaaa- where are these heroes???)
You're funny.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2017, 05:11:19 PM
  I just want to see Putin gone,   

You?
I hope he will stay.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on October 15, 2017, 05:21:21 PM
You?
I hope he will stay.

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree.  ::)

I guess from what you wrote to JayH...

...While you're "sitting" here, I go to RF regularly and know what people think and how they live (not all of them of course but still).

...that you're still living in the USA.  Have you seen my photos of Krasnodar in the Gallery?  I hope the city still looks like I remember it.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2017, 05:31:42 PM
You can disagree, but I am a RF citizen))

Have I seen your pics? Where?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2017, 05:40:00 PM
Actually, every time I go to Krasnodar I don't recognize it- it is growing so fast! I don't know where this crisis is but they build hundreds and thousands of new buildings and people buy new apartments all the time! Amazing.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2017, 05:43:26 PM
I saw the pics- the old part looks the same of course.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 15, 2017, 05:45:00 PM
Actually, every time I go to Krasnodar I don't recognize it- it is growing so fast! I don't know where this crisis is but they build hundreds and thousands of new buildings and people buy new apartments all the time! Amazing.

What country will Krasnodar be in when Putin's Soviet Russian Federation disintegrates?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2017, 05:52:02 PM
What country will Krasnodar be in when Putin's Soviet Russian Federation disintegrates?
Russia (Russian Federation)
Or you have another suggestion?

(http://s19.rimg.info/5e514ffd9e4dea57329059f54773c4b2.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1237551015.html)(http://s19.rimg.info/5e514ffd9e4dea57329059f54773c4b2.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1237551015.html)(http://s19.rimg.info/5e514ffd9e4dea57329059f54773c4b2.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1237551015.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 15, 2017, 05:54:59 PM
Forgot to add - HEROYAM SLAVA
ahahaaaaaaaaaaaa
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 16, 2017, 01:01:45 AM
Actually, every time I go to Krasnodar I don't recognize it- it is growing so fast! I don't know where this crisis is but they build hundreds and thousands of new buildings and people buy new apartments all the time! Amazing.

Hmm, as we go to the same part of Russia - but in my case Sochi - and though I'm not a RF citizen, I spend  half the year there -  I have to tell you that there are loads of unfinished construction projects - domestic and commercial. 

Perhaps Krasnodar is different..

As for VVP I seriously doubt his ratings ...  esp in more recent times... 


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 16, 2017, 01:21:23 AM
What country will Krasnodar be in when Putin's Soviet Russian Federation disintegrates?

??

JayH,

whilst I do not approve of some of the 'away games' the current incumbent in the Kremlin oversees and the laws felt necessary to prevent discussion of 'right to self determination' WITHIN Russia - so ironic - given current near neighbour foreign policy - I seriously doubt you'll find too many folk in Kuban seeking independence ...



You haven't set foot in Russia for a long time and gain your 'info' from Ukraine's media ... 

Just HOW out of touch with reality ARE you ?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 16, 2017, 03:23:35 AM
msmob , Jay just wants to tease me. I don't think any sensible person can speak of "disintegration" of Russia, leave Kuban alone.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 22, 2017, 08:32:37 PM

The net is closing --piece by piece



Russian-American relations will fundamentally change on February 2,


 
The August 2, 2017 law to counter Russian aggression requires that the Trump Administration identify in a report to Congress all Russians who have illegally acquired wealth in their own country and then invested it in the US and begin to confiscate those funds which now amount to more than a trillion US dollars, according to Andrey Piontkovsky.

“In effect,” the Russian commentator says, this law is “a declaration outside the law as a criminal community of the entire higher Russian leadership, which is keeping in the United States the wealth it has stolen in Russia,” up to and including “the first persons of the state,” including Vladimir Putin.


“As soon as these people will be officially named in the report to Congress, it will be impossible to turn the situation around because the laws and judicial procedures will begin to act independently from the desires of particular politicians,” and that reality is something that is likely to define relations between the two countries over the next three years.

On the one hand, Piontkovsky suggests, it is leading to visits to Washington by the Russian owners of this wealth or their representatives who are seeking to find a way out of this threat to their holdings. And on the other, he implies, the Russian government and those in the US who do not want to see a deterioration in ties will be exploring how to avoid this outcome.

Given that the kleptocratic nature of the Putin regime has been known for a long time, one might recently ask why American laws against money laundering haven’t been applied to Russians. The answer, the Russian analyst says, is that the West has been “to a certain degree complicit in these unethical actions.”


Too many people in too many Western countries either wanted to take advantage of the money Russian oligarchs and officials were placing in Western accounts or did not want to do anything that would upset the apple cart of relations between the two countries.

But now despite Donald Trump’s opposition, Congressional action has fundamentally changed the situation

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/10/22/russian-american-relations-will-fundamentally-change-on-february-2-piontkovsky-says-euromaidan-press/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 22, 2017, 08:41:06 PM
Just what Trump needs at the moment -- an endorsement from Putin !!


Putin blames West for all of Russia’s problems but refuses to criticize Trump



http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/10/21/putin-blames-west-for-all-of-russias-problems-but-refuses-to-criticize-trump-euromaidan-press/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 23, 2017, 10:00:55 AM
JayH, just one question- where do you get these junk mass media? Seriously, you need to be picky.
haha- Euromaidanpress?
(http://s16.rimg.info/7158a6e8a9433b7cdad2296e5f60acfb.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-934020711.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: kynrazor on October 23, 2017, 10:48:54 AM
All the same, with almost half of Russia's GDP wiped off since 2013, it certainly must have affected people's livelihood.

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:RUS:IND:GBR&hl=en&dl=en
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 23, 2017, 12:25:36 PM
JayH, just one question- where do you get these junk mass media? Seriously, you need to be picky.
haha- Euromaidanpress?
(http://s16.rimg.info/7158a6e8a9433b7cdad2296e5f60acfb.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-934020711.html)

Euromaidanpress is an NGO. It mostly translates articles about Ukraine into English. That includes articles from the Russian press.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 23, 2017, 02:07:28 PM
msmob , Jay just wants to tease me. I don't think any sensible person can speak of "disintegration" of Russia, leave Kuban alone.

May be so, then why the need for laws[ In Russia ] forbidding it's discussion in the media - whilst stirring up 'self-determination' in 'Novorossoya' or "Malarusiya"?

[ For Doll :  If a nation feels so comfortable in it's skin, why the need to stir sh1t in neighbours, whilst forbidding such talk, at home?  ]


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 23, 2017, 03:18:20 PM
What is NGO?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 23, 2017, 03:28:23 PM

msmob, I was asked a question about Kuban- I answered. What does it have to do with Ukraine?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on October 23, 2017, 04:44:28 PM
What is NGO?

Non-Governmental Organisation.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 24, 2017, 02:39:29 AM
Euromaidanpress is an NGO. It mostly translates articles about Ukraine into English. That includes articles from the Russian press.
OMG, NGO? Then enjoy it)))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 24, 2017, 03:13:15 AM
msmob, I was asked a question about Kuban- I answered. What does it have to do with Ukraine?

Why would Russian's leader speak of 'Novorossiya / Malarossiya (sp) ' when telling his own people they aren't allowed to even read of separatist movements ?

When Chech'niya didn't even want to join the RF - when the USSR broke up - we saw what happens, Grozny flattened - by bombing - yet the RU media screamed  - 'look what Kyiv is doing to it's citizens in Donetsk / Lughansk' when trying to stop separatists - and nearly succeeded - save for 'help' from ... the east ..

I'm talking about double stds  ..Can I be any clearer ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 24, 2017, 04:53:30 AM
Putin calls these regions the way people there call THEIR land.
Chechens were part of RF.

Again, I was asked a question about Kuban- I answered what I answered. Not Putin- I!
BTW, looking at Ukraine nobody would want to leave RF.
Go read Russian forums.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 24, 2017, 07:19:06 AM
Putin call these regions the way people there call THEIR land.
Chechens were part of RF.

Wrong x 2

1/ I was in Ukraine - Donetsk in 2012 - lovely new airport - most people happy to be part of the Euro championships - The Ukraine PM turns out to be a robbing git and runs to Russia for protection and MOST Ukrainians wanted a new leader and to look to strengthening relations with Europe..... Putin has a hissy fit and stirs up hatred and fear in eth Russians in E. Ukraine / Crimea

2/ Chechn'ya expressly did not vote to join the RF in '91 ...  Approx 20 percent of folks living there were eth Russian in '90 and 3 percent , now - yet the BS reason to prevent self-determination ( protect Russians ) and bomb the capital city indiscriminately got 'forgotten' when Kyiv tried to undo the damage done by Russians causing chaos in Ukraine.


Again, I was asked a question about Kuban- I answered what I answered. Not Putin- I!

..and once again, I 'sided' with you - in that Kuban was unlikely to seek to leave the RF anytime, soon


BTW, looking at Ukraine nobody would want to leave RF.
Go read Russian forums.

That was the point of the Kremlin's action IN Ukraine ... create a mess, a frozen conflict..
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 24, 2017, 09:41:32 AM
Wrong x 2

 

..and once again, I 'sided' with you - in that Kuban was unlikely to seek to leave the RF anytime, soon


 
So what are you discussing then? There is NO link between these two subjects- none. No region WANT to leave RF.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 24, 2017, 12:22:39 PM
So what are you discussing then? There is NO link between these two subjects- none. No region WANT to leave RF.

Sorry, Doll, but you aren't paying attention(

1/ Chech'nya got pummelled because it fought against even being a member of the RF  - Moscow has placed a puppet, there, to 'rule' .. 

2/ The Kremlin are 'fine' with meddling in Georgia ( 'Abkhazia' / S.Osettia), Moldova and Ukraine - encouraging unrest/ separatism... so why ban such talk within ?

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 25, 2017, 10:20:35 PM
As  Russia  becomes further in every way from Ukraine -- Ukrainian attitudes are changing too.
Already  2/3rd of Ukrainian population speak Ukrainian at home !
The stat below says that regardless of language -people identify as Ukrainian.

In Ukraine, the number of citizens who consider themselves ethnic Ukrainians has increased


More than 92% of Ukrainians consider themselves ethnic Ukrainians and only 5.5% are Russians. The younger respondents, the more often they position themselves as Ukrainians



http://ukr.lb.ua/news/2017/10/24/380118_ukraini_zbilshilasya_kilkist.html
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 26, 2017, 12:17:24 AM
JayH

How is your post 'bad news' for Russia ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on October 26, 2017, 12:22:28 AM
JayH

How is your post 'bad news' for Russia ?

Presumably it means that Russia's influence is waning within Ukraine.  In 20 or 30 years' time there will be nobody left yearning for the old days when the Soviet Union ruled the roost - and Putin, in his 10th term as President, will have nobody left to reminisce with about the good ol' days when it looked like he might actually be doing some good in Russia.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 26, 2017, 04:41:14 PM
JayH

How is your post 'bad news' for Russia ?
He is just trying to keep the thread alive when it is dead)))))))))
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 30, 2017, 10:20:41 PM
The reality is catching up in Russia .
Imagine what that % would be if Russians were able to speak freely-- and get truthfull information.


Less than half of Russians approve Moscow's support of "DPR"/"LPR"

Only 41% of Russians believe that Russia should support the so-called "DPR" and "LPR" (self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics) in the armed conflict in the east of Ukraine, according to a public opinion poll conducted by Russian NGO Levada Center on September 15-19.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/2214621-poll-less-than-half-of-russians-approve-moscows-support-of-dpr-lpr.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on October 31, 2017, 01:57:35 AM
The reality is catching up in Russia .
Imagine what that % would be if Russians were able to speak freely-- and get truthfull information.

Russians can and do speak freely, they just can't protest whenever they wish. Russians have full access to the internet and many have traveled outside of the country. They're not as blind as you think they are. Exactly what "reality" is catching up with Russia? The majority of Americans disapproved of the war in Vietnam and today the majority think going into Iraq under George W Bush was a mistake. Unnecessary conflicts usually aren't popular.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 31, 2017, 04:38:02 AM
Mhr7,

here 

  Head Office of UNIAN
01001, Kyiv, 4 Khreshchatyk street
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on October 31, 2017, 05:17:40 AM
Mhr7,

here 

  Head Office of UNIAN
01001, Kyiv, 4 Khreshchatyk street

Yes, another one of Jay's "reliable" sources  :cluebat:
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 31, 2017, 07:45:31 AM
Yes, another one of Jay's "reliable" sources  :cluebat:
Sure-  Non-governmental organizations (located in Kiev)))))))))))))))))
 (http://s20.rimg.info/0087e245783523af5f071c4136182f59.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1283233575.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 31, 2017, 07:46:45 AM
The reality is catching up in Russia .


I am sorry- what reality?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 31, 2017, 08:08:06 AM
UNIAN is a news agency, not an NGO.

Americans who protested hastened America’s withdrawal from Vietnam. It seems to me if one cannot protest, one does not really have freedom.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on October 31, 2017, 08:31:14 AM
UNIAN is a news agency, not an NGO.

Americans who protested hastened Americ’s withdrawal from Vietnam. It seems to me if one cannot protest, one does not really have freedom.
You need to read the WHOLE sentence- they can't protest WHENEVER they want. There are certain rules that regulate it- they make sense (to me).



There IS no difference if UNIAN is an agency or anything else. You need yo know the realia of both Russia and Ukraine  and not to trust everything that in on Internet.
Want to know what Russians feel and think? Go read Russian forums.
Here is the link to an ordinary provincial forum  http://forums.kuban.ru/
Read and enjoy watching horrible bad news for Russia
(http://s20.rimg.info/e18bd9f99a6f631812ca7a91965c33ee.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1311995847.html)(http://s20.rimg.info/e18bd9f99a6f631812ca7a91965c33ee.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1311995847.html)(http://s20.rimg.info/e18bd9f99a6f631812ca7a91965c33ee.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1311995847.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 31, 2017, 08:43:48 AM
I made no comment on the article or UNIAN in general. Just pointed out it is not an NGO.

Euromaidanpress does not report. It translates others’ articles.

The requirement to register and obtain permission to demonstrate is anti democratic and a restriction on freedom.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GQBlues on October 31, 2017, 08:58:19 AM
 :P


CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NYT, Washington Post, etc...are 'news' agencies, too.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 31, 2017, 09:09:31 AM
No, they aren’t. Associated Press is a news agency. Reuters is a news agency.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GQBlues on October 31, 2017, 09:42:37 AM
No, they aren’t. Associated Press is a news agency. Reuters is a news agency.

You mean like this (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21092.msg470471#msg470471)? Doesn't really matter if they commission their reports, or do the actual reporting (sic) - it's what is in the 'context' what is being 'reported', isn't it? Much less fact based or a lack thereof...
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 31, 2017, 09:45:36 AM
News agencies aggregate news.  ABC, NBC, CBS, etc., don't.  I don't really care about anyone's perspectives on their accuracy.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GQBlues on October 31, 2017, 09:48:48 AM
News agencies aggregate news.  ABC, NBC, CBS, etc., don't.  I don't really care about anyone's perspectives on their accuracy.

Now you say that....you not only bit hook, line and sinker with the silly 'dossier' BS, you actually posted ad nauseum about it's 'legitimacy' voraciously on this board.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 31, 2017, 09:56:16 AM
What dossier?  I have posted about Ukraine, and the information I've posted is largely accurate. 



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GQBlues on October 31, 2017, 10:02:58 AM
What dossier?


Another typical liberal maneuver.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 31, 2017, 10:04:51 AM
I have no idea what you're referring to.  Dossier on Yanukovych?  Yes, I'm interested in that.  On Trump? How many posts do you note by me on Trump?  He's elected.  He's the president.  I am not particularly interested in debating US domestic issues.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on October 31, 2017, 03:45:45 PM
I made no comment on the article or UNIAN in general. Just pointed out it is not an NGO.

Euromaidanpress does not report. It translates others’ articles.

The requirement to register and obtain permission to demonstrate is anti democratic and a restriction on freedom.

I think it's a fine line.  The constitution and bill of rights deals with individual liberties for the most part.  Those organizing protests should have to have a permit in order that law enforcement can have time to plan for crowd control, traffic control, etc.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 31, 2017, 04:26:00 PM
Yes, another one of Jay's "reliable" sources  :cluebat:

Russians can and do speak freely, they just can't protest whenever they wish. Russians have full access to the internet and many have traveled outside of the country. They're not as blind as you think they are. Exactly what "reality" is catching up with Russia? The majority of Americans disapproved of the war in Vietnam and today the majority think going into Iraq under George W Bush was a mistake. Unnecessary conflicts usually aren't popular.

I am sorry- what reality?

A  little respectfully --"full" access ?? Really-- you believe that? Full access when they travel outside Russia--yes !
Reality-- that would be actual news that Russia has invaded Ukraine with Russian military and they are responsible for killing thousands and doing billions of $ damage to eastern Ukraine and the Ukrainian economy. The reality is that some have caught on to what the facts are-- and you wonder how many more would condemn Putin & the Kremlin if the truth of it was available more widely.
 
There are so many examples of the lack of free speech -- but my reference was about being able to speak about non Kremlin acceptable points without fear of retribution. Are you silly enough to believe that many who respond on survey are not following the party line out of concern for what could happen if they did not. No response required.

Having access to the world art large-- does not guarantee actually getting the truth-- eg Doll was ( maybe still is?) denying it was Russian military in Eastern Ukraine over a long period of time. She was not alone --others who live in Russia relatively close to the Ukrainian border also repeatedly & over a long period of time -- asserted the same thing.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on October 31, 2017, 04:46:36 PM
I think it's a fine line.  The constitution and bill of rights deals with individual liberties for the most part.  Those organizing protests should have to have a permit in order that law enforcement can have time to plan for crowd control, traffic control, etc.


True, they should give authorities the time to plan.  Plus, if they blockade roads/access, they should be arrested.  But in Russia, permits to protest have been denied, last one I can think of, in Moscow, for a rally against anti terrorism laws.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: treadmilldude on November 01, 2017, 02:24:48 AM
Off topic Boethius. (By the way, I was teasing you yesterday on Bill's little boy Boe. I know how much you love Children). But why is ADATE allowed to advertise on RWD?? Does Dan really need the advertising $$$ this badly? (Face in hands)  :( I thought the point of RWD is to help single Men increase their chances of successfully marrying a FSUW?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 01, 2017, 03:35:59 AM
No response required
 

I am sure you don't need responses of people who often go to Russia, who know how things are.

You're right- you won't stand any response.

(http://s5.rimg.info/b96ada7dffb67028f4476c33251fbc55.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-518102439.html)

Скучно, девочки. (c) Putin
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on November 01, 2017, 03:55:05 AM
A  little respectfully --"full" access ?? Really-- you believe that? Full access when they travel outside Russia--yes !
Reality-- that would be actual news that Russia has invaded Ukraine with Russian military and they are responsible for killing thousands and doing billions of $ damage to eastern Ukraine and the Ukrainian economy. The reality is that some have caught on to what the facts are-- and you wonder how many more would condemn Putin & the Kremlin if the truth of it was available more widely.
 
There are so many examples of the lack of free speech -- but my reference was about being able to speak about non Kremlin acceptable points without fear of retribution. Are you silly enough to believe that many who respond on survey are not following the party line out of concern for what could happen if they did not. No response required.

Having access to the world art large-- does not guarantee actually getting the truth-- eg Doll was ( maybe still is?) denying it was Russian military in Eastern Ukraine over a long period of time. She was not alone --others who live in Russia relatively close to the Ukrainian border also repeatedly & over a long period of time -- asserted the same thing.

Full access unless you're looking for gay porn. If you want, give me any relevant website and I'll try to access it. If I can't I'll let you know. Euromaidan press, UNIAN- I can even access these sites no problem.

Even the poll you cited yesterday showed that only 41% of Russians approve of the government interfering in E. Ukraine so how many aren't towing the party line? Go to the Levada site and take a look at all of the polls and see how many aren't towing the party line.

The days of the KGB are over Jay. The government isn't paying any attention to what people on the street are talking about. Russians enjoy talking about politics and have no problem openly voicing their disgust with government corruption and rigged elections.

I've been living in Rostov for the last 3+ years and have yet to meet anyone who denies Russian involvement in E. Ukraine. Honestly, if life in Russia was as miserable as you think it is I would have left a long time ago.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 01, 2017, 08:45:39 AM
mhr7, I would still be careful, if I were in your shoes, which sites I accessed.  Russia wants servers physically on its soil for a reason.  The powers that be are much more defensive about internet access than anyone is letting on.  Search profiles are being built and, if there is controversy, will be acted upon.  There are signs that the thought police of the former Soviet Union are still in the shadows.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 01, 2017, 09:37:48 AM
mhr7, seriously- be careful
(http://s19.rimg.info/e0a220293b71e6837984bba6d68cdf01.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1260274023.html)

This advise is coming from an American?
(http://s19.rimg.info/509644de2e60712c2d66077359a62725.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1242296679.html)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 01, 2017, 09:38:44 AM
And this advice is coming from someone who thinks an electron is the size of a pea.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on November 01, 2017, 09:39:14 AM
mhr7, I would still be careful, if I were in your shoes, which sites I accessed.  Russia wants servers physically on its soil for a reason.  The powers that be are much more defensive about internet access than anyone is letting on.  Search profiles are being built and, if there is controversy, will be acted upon.  There are signs that the thought police of the former Soviet Union are still in the shadows.

I don't tend to use sites the government would be concerned about. My point is that Russia isn't isolated from the "real" world.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 01, 2017, 09:45:58 AM
I don't tend to use sites the government would be concerned about. My point is that Russia isn't isolated from the "real" world.

Fully agree.  I remember a couple of years ago when I was in Eastern Europe and RWD went down for three days.  I honestly believed that it had been blocked.  While I wasn't paranoid, I had heard the stories from Jim about his recent run-ins with the people who oversaw what he posted online and his sight seeing tour around Moscow. 

The uptake of all of this was that if Russia is so concerned about influencing people in other countries through the internet (which we all know such efforts exist) would the powers that be not be just as concerned about what type of information/disinformation is directed at Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 01, 2017, 09:56:49 AM
And this advice is coming from someone who thinks an electron is the size of a pea.
I hope people here don't think that all the rest are dumb.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 01, 2017, 09:59:33 AM
   (which we all know such efforts exist) 

Any proof other than "unians" reliable sources?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 01, 2017, 10:08:31 AM
Any proof other than "unians" reliable sources?

Without malice, I am curious to know if you believe that there are no efforts by Russian nationals in the pay of the government or persons  linked to the government that spend their time trying to influence public opinion in other countries?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 01, 2017, 10:56:11 AM
Without malice, I am curious to know if you believe that there are no efforts by Russian nationals in the pay of the government or persons  linked to the government that spend their time trying to influence public opinion in other countries?
Proof please. I didn't start it so you answer.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 01, 2017, 11:32:19 AM
Proof?  What proof?  I asked your opinion.  I am curious to know.  And, with your statements, I am sure the rest of the forum would enjoy knowing your opinion, also.  It will serve as reading material and fodder for discussion for days.

The question is whether you believe the Russian government or agents associated with the Russian government hire people to go on websites throughout the world, as paid employees, for the sole purpose of misleading readers away from factual information detrimental to the Russian government?

It is a simple opinion.  By all means, you have castigated enough people on this forum for their beliefs with or without proof, I think we'd all like to know your opinion.  (Or is it a secret?)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on November 01, 2017, 11:38:38 AM
I can't answer because I am afraid Putin won't let me go to Russia. Don't tell anybody, ok?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 01, 2017, 11:40:08 AM
Off topic Boethius. (By the way, I was teasing you yesterday on Bill's little boy Boe. I know how much you love Children). But why is ADATE allowed to advertise on RWD?? Does Dan really need the advertising $$$ this badly? (Face in hands)  :( I thought the point of RWD is to help single Men increase their chances of successfully marrying a FSUW?


I don't know, you'd have to ask Dan.  However, I do know there are 3 former members who found their wives on ADate, so it isn't 100% scam.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Madlen on November 01, 2017, 11:57:41 AM

The question is whether you believe the Russian government or agents associated with the Russian government hire people to go on websites throughout the world, as paid employees, for the sole purpose of misleading readers away from factual information detrimental to the Russian government?


Answer is in your question.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 01, 2017, 12:08:39 PM
I can't answer because I am afraid Putin won't let me go to Russia. Don't tell anybody, ok?

Okay, then let me give you something to munch on.  You play a game with people on this forum.  Yet, you challenged me to give proof of the above statement that I made that everyone knows that Russia is trolling the internet.  It is possible that some (very few) may not know that Russian trolling exists.  It is a proven fact. I can tell you that a Russian court agrees with me.  The court found that Lyudmilla Savchuk was telling the truth when she detailed the happenings inside the infamous troll factory in St. Petersburg.  It is a matter of public record.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11656043/My-life-as-a-pro-Putin-propagandist-in-Russias-secret-troll-factory.html

There are countless other stories.  But since you put so much faith in the Russian state, then you should also believe a Russian court that found Ms. Savchuk to be telling the truth and awarded her 1 Ruble as damages.   

However, you should know that Russian trolls exist.  You have been trolling this forum since you came back in the past few months.  And for that I disdain you.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on November 01, 2017, 01:37:49 PM
I don't think Doll is trolling.  She has a particular view of Russia. 


All big countries try to shape public opinion in their own best interests.   The troll factories did us a favour, by exposing that a government plants information for their own purposes. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 01, 2017, 04:05:35 PM


The days of the KGB are over Jay.


Yeah agree --it is called the FSB now !!!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 01, 2017, 04:06:52 PM

   The troll factories did us a favour, by exposing that a government plants information for their own purposes.

I said much the same thing yesterday in Propaganda thread .
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 01, 2017, 08:25:53 PM
   

However, you should know that Russian trolls exist.  You have been trolling this forum since you came back in the past few months.  And for that I disdain you.

It is very important that jone 'disdains' you!  :ROFL: He doesn't like to have his views contradicted, or to not respond to him in the way he tries to demand.  Of course he 'forgives' the USA or trump for similar things that he criticizes other nations of!  This is why he is known as a whitewashing hypocrite. 

Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on November 01, 2017, 09:45:20 PM
Answer is in your question.

So, you agree - a govt should spent tax payers money on ensuring 'bad' news  gets buried and false news is posted to hide the facts ?  :o
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on November 01, 2017, 09:50:29 PM
It is very important that jone 'disdains' you!  :ROFL: He doesn't like to have his views contradicted, or to not respond to him in the way he tries to demand.  Of course he 'forgives' the USA or trump for similar things that he criticizes other nations of!  This is why he is known as a whitewashing hypocrite. 

Fathertime!

FT, let's not have this thread polluted by dissing those who- for some reason - unfathomable to most outside the US and the majority of voters in the US -  support  'Tramp'...  ;)

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 02, 2017, 01:24:47 AM
It is very important that jone 'disdains' you!  :ROFL: He doesn't like to have his views contradicted, or to not respond to him in the way he tries to demand.  Of course he 'forgives' the USA or trump for similar things that he criticizes other nations of!  This is why he is known as a whitewashing hypocrite. 

Fathertime!


Blah, blah, blah, TROLL.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on November 02, 2017, 01:29:42 AM
FT, let's not have this thread polluted by dissing those who- for some reason - unfathomable to most outside the US and the majority of voters in the US -  support  'Tramp'...  ;)

I support three percent.  I don't support Trump.  Never have.  I wouldn't and didn't vote for him.  But, please, carry on.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on November 02, 2017, 04:58:51 AM
I support three percent.

Three percent of what ?

I don't support Trump.  Never have.  I wouldn't and didn't vote for him.  But, please, carry on.

Sorry, for the slur ...

Now can we move on from US politics and discuss the 'bad news' for Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Madlen on November 02, 2017, 05:44:17 AM
So, you agree - a govt should spent tax payers money on ensuring 'bad' news  gets buried and false news is posted to hide the facts ?  :o

It is dirty games of polititians.
But it is reality, and I am sure, it is not only in Russia. Maybe, in Russia more, than in other countries.

And I can say again: we have a lot of situations like this, because 80% of people support govt. They have no brain to analise and understand reality.
And I can not say, why situation like this now: because people without education and they believe everything, what they see and listen, or because they do not want understand or can not understand.

For example, a lot of people hate US, but...they like McDonald's and they wear clothes with American symbols. They never were in Europe, but they say, that life their is not good.

They make decisions about unfamiliar things. They see TV, listen radio and believe in everything.
But our TV and radio today full of propaganda and criminal news. Everything for people to be crazy. But people agree to be crazy.
And this is not problem of govt, it is problem of people.
 
If I begin to say about it, I can not stop, so I prefer to be silent. It is better for my nervous system :).
But we have, what we correspond to.
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on November 02, 2017, 05:58:16 AM
I support three percent.  I don't support Trump.  Never have.  I wouldn't and didn't vote for him.  But, please, carry on.

You are just covering your bases here. 

Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on November 02, 2017, 06:11:23 AM
You are just covering your bases here. 

Fathertime!

FT -- PLE-EASE - keep it in the 'Tramp' thread ?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GQBlues on November 02, 2017, 11:53:49 AM
It is dirty games of polititians.
But it is reality, and I am sure, it is not only in Russia. Maybe, in Russia more, then in other countries...


Exactly. Suppression of facts and reality is true with any state, or nation, if facts proved to be detrimental to its government/s. ALL nations do it.


The US a darn good example of that, especially today. Even with our so-called 'free press' (media).
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Madlen on November 02, 2017, 01:21:34 PM
Yes, and propaganda.

I made various videos for my friend: streets, shops, cars, people. And he asked me:
-Why the cashier has few people? And in supermarket so many goods!
-It is not normal?
-But they say here, that in russian there is nothing.

Then he came here and made pictures. After trip he wrote article about russia and sent it to redaction.
I hope, they will publish this article :).

Our shops full of goods, but people have not money.
Other problem, our food products are of poor quality.

But we are still alive  :D and optimistic.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 02, 2017, 03:34:52 PM
The days of the KGB are over Jay. The government isn't paying any attention to what people on the street are talking about. Russians enjoy talking about politics and have no problem openly voicing their disgust with government corruption and rigged elections.



You have posted the same type of nonsense previously. There are literally  1000's of reports that contradict your assertion.
Given your beliefs --chances are you have never read any of those reports-I wonder why !

Crimean savagely beaten for pro-Ukraine views faces jail on ‘extremism’ charges

The FSB in Russian-occupied Sevastopol have formally charged Ukrainian activist Ihor Movenko over a comment they allege he posted on a social media page in 2016 and which they ’noticed’ only after he persistently demanded an investigation into the brutal and unprovoked attack by a police officer that left him hospitalized.  He is accused of ‘public calls to carry out extremist activities’ and could face a sentence of up to five years’ imprisonment.   

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1509575679
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: treadmilldude on November 02, 2017, 03:53:54 PM
Jay, speaking of jails....how are FSU jails compared to US Jails? Are they less luxurious than American jails, about the same, or more luxurious than US Jails? Is there Capital Punishment in Ukraine / Belarus / Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on November 02, 2017, 05:05:49 PM

You have posted the same type of nonsense previously. There are literally  1000's of reports that contradict your assertion.
Given your beliefs --chances are you have never read any of those reports-I wonder why !

Crimean savagely beaten for pro-Ukraine views faces jail on ‘extremism’ charges

The FSB in Russian-occupied Sevastopol have formally charged Ukrainian activist Ihor Movenko over a comment they allege he posted on a social media page in 2016 and which they ’noticed’ only after he persistently demanded an investigation into the brutal and unprovoked attack by a police officer that left him hospitalized.  He is accused of ‘public calls to carry out extremist activities’ and could face a sentence of up to five years’ imprisonment.   

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1509575679

I don't believe I wrote anything about pro-Ukrainians who draw attention to themselves in Crimea by being anti-Russian.
But here is a similar story about the Ukrainian authorities-

Quote
Employees of the SBU detained a resident of Berezovka in the Odessa region who spread anti-Ukrainian materials on Russian social networks. This was reported by the press center of the department.

http://fact.international/tag/political-repression-in-ukraine/

For the record, I don't support the actions of the authorities in Crimea. But Crimea is a bit of a different case than the rest of Russia. What I wrote about the common man not being afraid to voice their concerns with the government is absolutely true from my experience.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 19, 2017, 09:10:19 PM

Yeah --right-- so much credibility ( & and I am not referencing Reuters)!

Russian central bank says it can handle any U.S. sanctions on its debt

Under a sanctions bill drafted to punish Russia for alleged meddling in U.S. elections in 2016, the U.S. secretary of the Treasury must submit a report describing in detail the potential effects of expanding sanctions to include sovereign debt and the full range of derivative products.

n UNIAN: http://economics.unian.info/2247591-reuters-russian-central-bank-says-it-can-handle-any-us-sanctions-on-its-debt.html

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Yes on November 20, 2017, 02:10:01 AM
Yes, and propaganda.

I made various videos for my friend: streets, shops, cars, people. And he asked me:
-Why the cashier has few people? And in supermarket so many goods!
-It is not normal?
-But they say here, that in russian there is nothing.

Then he came here and made pictures. After trip he wrote article about russia and sent it to redaction.
I hope, they will publish this article :).

Our shops full of goods, but people have not money.
Other problem, our food products are of poor quality.

But we are still alive  :D and optimistic.
What city do you live in?
 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on November 21, 2017, 03:56:47 PM
What city do you live in?

Are you going to dispute reality with yet another member ....    ?((

 You live in Moscow ...    You are the 'expert' in steaks ..... you being trained to tertiary level in Hotel Management - and like me actually knowing about what is good meat, etc...


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 11, 2017, 12:56:40 PM
Vladimir Putin makes it official – he's running for re-election in 2018
Russian president says he will seek new six-year term in elections in March that will likely see him face only token opposition

Vladimir Putin has made the long-expected announcement that he will seek a new six-year presidential term at elections in March.
If he wins, which he almost certainly will, Putin will have spent 24 years as Russian leader by the end of his term in 2024, including four years when he was prime minister but still called the shots.
“I will put forward my candidacy for the post of president of the Russian Federation,” said Putin during a meeting with factory workers in the city of Nizhny Novgorod on Wednesday afternoon.
“Russia will continue moving forwards, and nobody will ever be able to stop this forward movement,” he said, in what may be an early sign that the campaign would invoke nationalist rhetoric of a Russia facing off against a hostile west.
Putin has spent a year dodging the question about whether he would run in the elections. Even earlier on Wednesday the Russian president was coy about seeking re-election when he took to the stage at a youth volunteer forum in Moscow and was asked the question directly.
“I want to ask, do you trust and support me?” Putin asked the audience, which prompted a resounding chorus of “Yes!”
“The decision will be taken and announced in the near future,” said Putin, without making it clear just how soon.
(http://s1.radikali.ru/uploads/2017/12/11/66025f9cf338fae91cc53644f810d3ef-full.jpg) (http://radikali.ru/) [URL


Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 11, 2017, 01:55:41 PM
Why do you think this is bad news for Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 11, 2017, 04:48:02 PM
Can you read- GOOD news  for Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 11, 2017, 05:35:13 PM
Wasn't there a law that Russian Presidents could not be elected for more than two terms?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 11, 2017, 11:51:50 PM
Can you read- GOOD news  for Russia?


No, I don't see that in your post.  But, clear now anyway.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Bounder on December 13, 2017, 06:30:00 PM
Wasn't there a law that Russian Presidents could not be elected for more than two terms?

Not more than two consecutive terms.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 13, 2017, 11:54:41 PM
Not more than two consecutive terms.


The law was changed to make the term longer, and new opposition parties harder to form - ever noticed how Political opponents seem to be convicted to prevent them standing  ? ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2017, 05:49:23 PM
I think it is bad for any country that is allegedly a democracy to have the same leaders for extended periods of time.  Eight years, or ten at the most, should be the maximum.  Democracy needs new ideas.  But Russia, like Ukraine, is an oligarchy controlled by the former Soviet nomenklatura.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: whynotme on December 14, 2017, 10:56:17 PM
I think it is bad for any country that is allegedly a democracy to have the same leaders for extended periods of time.  Eight years, or ten at the most, should be the maximum.  Democracy needs new ideas.  But Russia, like Ukraine, is an oligarchy controlled by the former Soviet nomenklatura.
Nobody complained Urho Kekkonen being the president from 1956 till 1981. Double standards again  ;)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 14, 2017, 11:58:48 PM
The fact you have to go back over 3 decades to find an example should tell you something.



Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2017, 12:16:13 AM
Wasn't there a law that Russian Presidents could not be elected for more than two terms?


Putin honored the law by stepping down after two terms. He became Prime Minister for four years and during that four years, his puppet Russian President Medvedev changed laws so Putin can become President again and Medvedev extended how long one can serve as President of Russia form 4 years to 6 years per term. Laws can change again and Putin may end up as President for life.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ranetka on December 15, 2017, 12:55:24 AM
The fact you have to go back over 3 decades to find an example should tell you something.


How about Angela Merkel ? Is 12 years and counting long enough? As you said 8 to 10 years max to be called a democracy, when are you planning to start pointing German undemocratic nature out?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2017, 01:12:00 AM
Yes, I think she should step aside.  New ideas and new faces are good for countries.  However, Merkel doesn't rule with a majority, she can't impose her views, because she has coalition partners.  Therefore, I believe this example is flawed.

Quote
when are you planning to start pointing German undemocratic nature out?

When I start posting at GermanWomenDiscussion.com!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ranetka on December 15, 2017, 05:21:22 AM
Yes, I think she should step aside.  New ideas and new faces are good for countries.  However, Merkel doesn't rule with a majority, she can't impose her views, because she has coalition partners.  Therefore, I believe this example is flawed.

When I start posting at GermanWomenDiscussion.com!


My point is you don’t think Germany is not a democratic country based on that but you use the length of Putin being in power as a proof of Russia not being democratic. In reality situation is the same in both countries - the leader is chosen repeatedly by majority of people because majority of people believe she or he is the best candidate for the job.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 15, 2017, 08:29:54 AM

My point is you don’t think Germany is not a democratic country based on that but you use the length of Putin being in power as a proof of Russia not being democratic. In reality situation is the same in both countries - the leader is chosen repeatedly by majority of people because majority of people believe she or he is the best candidate for the job.

Really you are comparing apples and oranges.

In one country it is possible to form a new political party and break the mold..

In another leading opposition members seem to be convicted and  'excluded'.

Then there are the laws that effectively stifle new parties gaiining momentum.

This is 101 obvious... unless you chose to be selectively blind!

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ranetka on December 15, 2017, 09:05:16 AM
Really you are comparing apples and oranges.

In one country it is possible to form a new political party and break the mold..

In another leading opposition members seem to be convicted and  'excluded'.

Then there are the laws that effectively stifle new parties gaiining momentum.

This is 101 obvious... unless you chose to be selectively blind!


Really, when was the mold broke last time in say UK? Seems the same 2 parties are dancing around for the last 60 years or so and the rest are just fringes providing entertainment.


Never mind US where it has been members of the same families...imagine what would the West say if Putin,s daughter taken his place, but in the US this was of course completely democratic.


By the way Russia has an opposition party every election putting a considerable number of seats in parliament. Called communist party, another fact the westerners do not like therefore ignore. For example the mayor in the city I am from is a communist, if that’s not an opposition then what is?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on December 15, 2017, 09:08:40 AM
opposition members seem to be convicted and  'excluded'.



I'm sure Republicans felt that way after FDR went on to win his fourth straight term.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GQBlues on December 15, 2017, 09:35:38 AM
Democracy had always been loosely used the world over.

Ironically enough, the one country that have the closest definition of the word, direct democracy, is currently headed by a president of their federal council for the past 11 years.

...but if short term leadership defines 'true' democractic system for some, then Australia is way out in front of everyone else considering they had 5 different prime ministers in as many years.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2017, 01:39:54 PM

My point is you don’t think Germany is not a democratic country based on that but you use the length of Putin being in power as a proof of Russia not being democratic. In reality situation is the same in both countries - the leader is chosen repeatedly by majority of people because majority of people believe she or he is the best candidate for the job.


I don't recall stating my opinion on Germany. 


A majority of people did not choose Angela Merkel.  Her party has never won more than 41.5% of the vote with her as leader. 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2017, 01:46:33 PM

Really, when was the mold broke last time in say UK? Seems the same 2 parties are dancing around for the last 60 years or so and the rest are just fringes providing entertainment.


Never mind US where it has been members of the same families...imagine what would the West say if Putin,s daughter taken his place, but in the US this was of course completely democratic.


By the way Russia has an opposition party every election putting a considerable number of seats in parliament. Called communist party, another fact the westerners do not like therefore ignore. For example the mayor in the city I am from is a communist, if that’s not an opposition then what is?


I think your UK example is flawed.  It doesn't matter how many parties exist, it's what those parties do.  In the UK, MP's are not required to toe the party line.  The fates of many of their leaders proves this.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Ranetka on December 15, 2017, 03:45:30 PM

I don't recall stating my opinion on Germany. 





Ok. Do you consider Germany a democracy?


Putin has an absolute majority of votes, does it make him more legitimate leader than Merkel in your opinion?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 15, 2017, 03:58:19 PM
No. Countries in which you are not free to express your views, no matter how odious, are not democratic.

Politicians were elected in the USSR. By your definition, it therefore was democratic.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 03:20:42 AM
Not sure how to say in English "игра в наперстки" but this is what people are doing comparing Russia to Germany or any other country/ Belorussia? More.

As for Putin, he is absolutely popular in Russia. Highly popular.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Davo2 on December 16, 2017, 03:56:46 AM
The woman i'm talking with isn't a huge fan of Putin. She has the belief that a man who can accumulate 200 billion dollars of personal wealth, while single mother's struggle with not much help from the state, is not a man of the people. She See's him as a good example of why many aspects of Russian life are exposed to  corruption. It surprised me when she said she wouldn't express this view in public as "we still have to be careful"... I guess that statement says it all
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 16, 2017, 04:18:06 AM

Really, when was the mold broke last time in say UK?



1/ SDP in the eighties...came from nowhere and moved Labour to the right, even grabbing left of centre Tories.... The two main parties adapted as they saw oblivion

2/ UKIP

One party agenda...'get UK out of Europe'... Sadly, it worked and made themselves 'redundant'

Now, we both know which nation you are obuscating about ...I (easily) dealt with your attempted deflection...so can we get back to why a certain nation tries to make laws to stifle opposition?


 



By the way Russia has an opposition party every election putting a considerable number of seats in parliament. Called communist party, another fact the westerners do not like therefore ignore. For example the mayor in the city I am from is a communist, if that’s not an opposition then what is?

)) The Communist Party is not considered a threat and is allowed. (as is the he LDPR)

So,. back to my specific points?  (( Hint leaders of new parties 'found to be corrupt' and excluded and how often do we see proper representation of  other parties...? ' United Russia' effectively control the big 4 TV channels

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 05:21:51 AM
. She See's him as a good example 
Out of pure curiosity, what does "See's him " mean?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: GQBlues on December 16, 2017, 09:06:09 AM
The funny thing about these recent exchanges is the mistake of describing the majority will of the people of a nation in choosing its leader to be 'undemocratic'. That's about the most direct definition of democracy. If the majority in Russia wants to see the continued leadership of Putin then that is a prime practice in a democracy.

Pretty obvious that a whole lot of you are still ignorant to the very basic difference between democracy v republic.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 11:39:10 AM
GQBlues, they just can not accept the fact that Russia has a very strong President. Finally! It is hard for them as well to understand that the majority of people do want him as a leader.

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on December 16, 2017, 11:49:30 AM
GQBlues, they just can not accept the fact that Russia has a very strong President. Finally! It is hard for them as well to understand that the majority of people do want him as a leader.

I disagree.  I doubt anyone here doesn't believe that Russia has a very strong president and that the majority of the people want him as their leader.

The comments of others concerning the situation in Russia have nothing to do with what you are claiming.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 11:52:09 AM
I disagree.  I doubt anyone here doesn't believe that Russia has a very strong president and that the majority of the people want him as their leader.

The comments of others concerning the situation in Russia have nothing to do with what you are claiming.
Then you need to read the recent posts again.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2017, 11:59:55 AM
Well my comment is not about whether Russians want Putin as a leader, so at least in terms of what I've posted, ML is correct.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 12:06:02 PM
Wow!


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Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 12:12:58 PM
ML, "doesn't believe" and "doesn't accept" are very different. I said "accept". You need to be more careful when you comment.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2017, 12:27:31 PM
Per Oxford dictionary:
Definition of "accept":
2.  Believe or come to recognize (a proposition) as valid or correct.

Per Cambridge Dictionary:
B2  to believe that something is true.

Per Merriam Webster Dictionary:
3c  to recognize as true:  BELIEVE


ML probably has the most precise use of English language of all posters on the forum. Together with Sandro, the best use of punctuation.  He knew what he was saying.  It wasn't an error.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 12:34:06 PM
He understood me (you too).

Accept, admit- whatever.
Accept is better.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2017, 12:38:48 PM

He understood me (you too).

Accept, admit- whatever.
Accept is better.


Accept and believe are the same thing, essentially.  ML's point was that he does not believe anyone here is stating Russia does not have a strong president, nor is anyone stating Russians don't want him as their leader.  I happen to agree with that.  That was never my point.  It's not moby's point either.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2017, 12:48:11 PM
Not sure how to say in English "игра в наперстки" but this is what people are doing comparing Russia to Germany or any other country/ Belorussia? More.

As for Putin, he is absolutely popular in Russia. Highly popular.

игра в наперстки=shell game

The only poster comparing Germany to Russia was a Russian.[/size]
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2017, 01:23:38 PM
GQBlues, they just can not accept the fact that Russia has a very strong President. Finally! It is hard for them as well to understand that the majority of people do want him as a leader.

Russia has a strong and popular president, that makes Russia a stronger more unified nation.  It is not in US interests for Russia to be strong, hence we try to interfere from afar and undermine Putin.   Juxtapose that with the situation in the US where for better or worse we have a VERY unpopular president which weakens the nation.  If Trump tried to involve us in a military entanglement overseas his already low popularity would plummet further and put his own presidency further at risk.   Aside from his own possibly his own personal beliefs, that might be one of the reasons he has talked big but done very little.  I say keep in office (Good for economy), but keep him weak. 

Fathertime! 
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 03:29:24 PM
I know that strong Russia with strong President is PITA of USA)))

 So I am glad Putin is running for the presidency.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 16, 2017, 03:37:17 PM
I know that strong Russia with strong President is PITA of USA)))

 So I am glad Putin is running for the presidency.

And we wish you were living in Russia with him.  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 03:49:14 PM
And we wish you were living in Russia with him.  :)
I will. I am planning on returning.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Davo2 on December 16, 2017, 03:52:05 PM
Out of pure curiosity, what does "See's him " mean?

Sorry should be "sees"

Personally, I don't really have any view on this subject ... Except if someone isn't comfortable stating their political views in public, then obviously she's felt intimidated in the past. I didn't want to question the reason why.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 16, 2017, 03:53:21 PM
Hahaaaaaaaaaaa these Americans still think that living outside their country is a punishment!


You are funny!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: fathertime on December 16, 2017, 08:10:47 PM
And we wish you were living in Russia with him.  :)

'We' being, you and your hemorrhoid, or your tick?

Fathertime!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 17, 2017, 03:54:48 AM
'We' being, you and your hemorrhoid, or your tick?

Fathertime!
"We, the people" )))))

Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 18, 2017, 12:53:28 AM
The flood of news stories from a country as large, diverse and strange as the Russian Federation often appears to be is far too large for anyone to keep up with. But there needs to be a way to mark those which can’t be discussed in detail but which are too indicative of broader developments to ignore.
What’s the Difference Between Putin and God? God Doesn’t Think He’s Putin

‘State Reserve Fund Running Out, Ruble Collapse Predicted’ and other neglected Russian stories

The Election’s Only Unknowns: How Few People Will Turn Out? and Who’ll Finish Second?

An old discussion point in thread--the time is close now
State Reserve Fund Running Out, Ruble Collapse Predicted

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/12/16/state-reserve-fund-running-out-ruble-collapse-predicted-and-other-neglected-russian-stories-euromaidan-press/
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 18, 2017, 11:41:49 AM
Putin tops latest Russian election rating \
The summary of the research released on Friday states that 67 percent of respondents said that they would vote for Putin if the poll took place on Sunday. Eight percent said that they would vote for the leader of the Russian Liberal Democratic Party, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, and 4 percent pledged their support to the head of the Russian Communist Party, Gennady Zyuganov.
Just 1 percent of the public expressed plans to vote for the founder of the liberal Yabloko party, Grigory Yavlinsky, and a similar share said they were ready to vote reporter and former ‘It-girl’ Ksenia Sobchak, who earlier announced that she planned to take part in the election to provide an option for those who wanted to vote for “none of the above.”
One percent of respondents said they would protest by rendering their ballots invalid, while 8 percent of those polled told researchers they would skip the vote if it were held this coming Sunday. A further 8 percent could not give a definite answer to the question.
In the same research, 80 percent of respondents said that they personally trusted Putin, while 15 percent said they do not trust the incumbent and 5 percent remained undecided. When researchers asked people if they personally thought Putin was performing well as president, 81 percent gave a positive answer while 12 percent said the president was performing poorly. Seven percent could not give a simple answer to this question.
The poll was held on December 9 and 10, shortly after Putin announced he would run for a new term in 2018. Earlier this week, Putin confirmed his intention, but said he planned to run as an independent candidate and counted on the support of a wide variety of Russian political parties and public movements.
On Friday, the upper house of the Russian parliament set the date of the presidential polls as March 18, 2018.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on December 18, 2017, 12:02:29 PM
Putin tops latest Russian election rating \

This is a continuation of the past with his approval rating.

And, this brings up again a point I have made here several times.

Many folks here like to tell how they hate Putin and his government and his actions . . .  but that the Russian people themselves are not like that and are wonderful people.

However the truth is that when a leader has this degree of support you cannot separate the people from the leadership.

If you hate Putin and his government and the actions of his government . . . it is completely silly to say that you still love the Russian people.

The Russian people are Putin; Putin is the Russian people.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on December 18, 2017, 01:41:15 PM
Putin tops latest Russian election rating \

This is a continuation of the past with his approval rating.

And, this brings up again a point I have made here several times.

Many folks here like to tell how they hate Putin and his government and his actions . . .  but that the Russian people themselves are not like that and are wonderful people.

However the truth is that when a leader has this degree of support you cannot separate the people from the leadership.

If you hate Putin and his government and the actions of his government . . . it is completely silly to say that you still love the Russian people.

The Russian people are Putin; Putin is the Russian people.

Your bias against Russia and it's people are no secret. But I don't think you know enough about Russia or its people to justify this. Much of Putin's popularity comes from the fact that he changed Russia from what it was in the 90s to being much more livable country. He defends Russia and its interests and is a strong leader. Russians are very aware of the fact that elections are rigged, corruption is rampant and that Russia has many other shortcomings. They criticize their country as much as Americans criticize America but most Russians are still proud of their country and their people.

Maybe this will help explain the situation-

http://www.rbth.com/politics_and_society/2017/05/03/why-half-of-russians-are-ready-to-back-putin-for-a-4th-term_755501
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2017, 01:45:05 PM
ML, are the American people Trump, and Trump the American people?


You could really make that same argument about any leader, particularly if he/she is a populist.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 18, 2017, 01:54:20 PM
ML, are the American people Trump, and Trump the American people?



Almost exactly what I was about to write




However the truth is that when a leader has this degree of support you cannot separate the people from the leadership.

If you hate Putin and his government and the actions of his government . . . it is completely silly to say that you still love the Russian people.

The Russian people are Putin; Putin is the Russian people.
Your bias against Russia and it's people are no secret. But I don't think you know enough about Russia or its people to justify this.


Putin is slime ,disgusting slime -- as is every Russian that supports him. ML is correct that those people are equally culpable for the crimes and atrocities committed by Putin's regime.

That said -- it does not apply to ALL the Russian people ,
The so called polls are rubbish -- just another  fictitious lie from the Kremlin. There are other polls that show a very decent % do not approve even remotely close to the so called ratings often quoted.

We have previously covered why it is not smart( and just plain dangerous) for Russian to voice dissenting views.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on December 18, 2017, 01:57:45 PM
ML, are the American people Trump, and Trump the American people?

You could really make that same argument about any leader, particularly if he/she is a populist.

But note that I have always pointed to fact of the sky high approval ratings of Putin when I state my case.

This is a rarity on the world scene and is the logic for my contending that Putin = Russian people.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on December 18, 2017, 02:00:03 PM
Putin is slime ,disgusting slime -- as is every Russian that supports him. ML is correct that those people are equally culpable for the crimes and atrocities committed by Putin's regime.
My fiancee supports Putin.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: calmissile on December 18, 2017, 02:00:43 PM
Almost exactly what I was about to write



Putin is slime ,disgusting slime -- as is every Russian that supports him. ML is correct that those people are equally culpable for the crimes and atrocities committed by Putin's regime.

That said -- it does not apply to ALL the Russian people ,
The so called polls are rubbish -- just another  fictitious lie from the Kremlin. There are other polls that show a very decent % do not approve even remotely close to the so called ratings often quoted.

We have previously covered why it is not smart( and just plain dangerous) for Russian to voice dissenting views.

You mean like falling out of a hotel window or having a fatal "traffic accident"?  :)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on December 18, 2017, 02:08:21 PM
My fiancee supports Putin.

Until everyday Russians wake up and understand that support makes them equally culpable -- Putin will keep on the path he is on in destroying Russia.

My comment stands.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 18, 2017, 02:10:56 PM
I don't think Putin is destroying Russia, and certainly, most Russians would disagree with that.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on December 18, 2017, 02:13:43 PM
I don't think Putin is destroying Russia, and certainly, most Russians would disagree with that.
I agree 100%.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2017, 02:14:37 AM
Until everyday Russians wake up and understand that support makes them equally culpable -- Putin will keep on the path he is on in destroying Russia.

My comment stands.
How are Russians guilty and how is Putin destroying Russia?
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on December 19, 2017, 04:02:25 AM
My fiancee supports Putin.


That make you engaged to Putin! Hang mhr7!
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 19, 2017, 04:18:01 AM
That makes all the Russians on the board Putin hahaaaaaaaaaaa
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Belvis on December 19, 2017, 05:05:45 AM
The Russian people are Putin; Putin is the Russian people.

The bold statement but seems to be close to reality. 8) At least relative to male part of population, I would reserve the judgement about the best half  of Russians.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on December 19, 2017, 12:37:41 PM

That make you engaged to Putin! Hang mhr7!

Only in Jay's world of false analogous world. Actually, we don't talk about politics much :-X
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 28, 2017, 07:05:19 AM
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP6IcIA_Ueg


 

(http://s20.rimg.info/094e990bf024f103b4a29bb6bd68939a.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1282760487.html)
Title: Re: More 'Bad News' for Russia - the bridges are still getting built)
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2017, 10:43:16 PM
JayH

You haven't covered any 'bad news' re the Bridges that the Russians are kindly building to link Russia to Ukraine)

The 2nd ( road ) span has been lifted into place over the channel that routes to the Asov Sea.

The rail bridge is now scheduled for 2019 - but the road bridge 2018

(http://www.most.life/media/images/nadvigka_1.2e16d0ba.fill-790x530.jpg)

(http://www.most.life/media/images/nadvigka_3.2e16d0ba.fill-790x530.jpg)



Title: Re: More 'Bad News' for Russia - the bridges are still getting built)
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2017, 07:35:37 AM
JayH

You haven't covered any 'bad news' re the Bridges that the Russians are kindly building to link Russia to Ukraine)

 
To link Krasnodar Territory with Crimea (Russia to Russia).
On the "land", Russia is linked to Ukraine


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Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 29, 2017, 09:11:34 AM
Doll, 100:11,13:1 at the UN


 Crimea is de jure part of Ukraine and it really is nice of the Kremlin to built a bridge

Until you're back in Russia you'll find maps in most nations in the world haven't changed ..
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 29, 2017, 06:28:21 PM
Doll, 100:11,13:1 at the UN


 Crimea is de jure part of Ukraine and it really is nice of the Kremlin to built a bridge

Until you're back in Russia you'll find maps in most nations in the world haven't changed ..
Maps haven't changed but the peninsular is Russia )))))))) "The most nations maps" can show anything- it's not going to change anything.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 30, 2017, 03:39:17 AM
Maps haven't changed but the peninsular is Russia )))))))) "The most nations maps" can show anything- it's not going to change anything.

I see nothing 'funny' about your remark....   


Indeed, I don't see the sanctions being removed and relations improving - until physical interference in UA ceases ((
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 30, 2017, 06:01:21 AM
You're right- it is very serious. Crimea is Ukrainian on the maps only (which makes a HUGE difference).

As for sanctions, they would have been there anyway.  Boeing, Donbas, Donetsk, Syria, Korea- you name it.

(http://b.radikal.ru/b10/1712/11/ceef777c9b2f.jpg) (http://radikal.ru)
Title: Russians are starving ))))
Post by: Doll on December 30, 2017, 08:32:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiUbbea4nHQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VwEFPNgtW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ8yw7HEtl4
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 30, 2017, 10:03:09 AM
Doll, you seem distinctly devoid of knowledge re western sanctions....it  is the Russian 'counter sanctions' that targeted western producers - vegetables, fruit, dairy products

You come across as a MASSIVE 'victim' of misinfo of your 'hero' ....   

Kindly remember I live half the year in Russia - I KNOW that the shelves are full .... but not always with the best cheeses as the now protected Russian agriculture industry plays 'catch up' ...
Title: No More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 30, 2017, 05:24:39 PM
Doll, you seem distinctly devoid of knowledge re western sanctions....it  is the Russian 'counter sanctions' that targeted western producers - vegetables, fruit, dairy products

You come across as a MASSIVE 'victim' of misinfo of your 'hero' ....   

Kindly remember I live half the year in Russia - I KNOW that the shelves are full .... but not always with the best cheeses as the now protected Russian agriculture industry plays 'catch up' ...

I know about "western sanctions".
"Full shelves " videos are not for you- it is about "bad news for Russia".
What I am implying is that Russia is still there.
As for "best cheeses"- Russians don't care, they (we) have seen much worse times , for example, 90s.

Life is a bit "tight" but there are no "bad news". As for my "hero", he is a very strong talented President. I am glad he is running for the presidency again.
You may live in Russia for years and still won't understand their spirit.
By posting these videos I want to say that the country lives quite a decent life.

Happy New Year from   Putin and me !
 (http://c.radikal.ru/c42/1712/d5/f3f62b0342df.jpg) (http://radikal.ru)

(http://d.radikal.ru/d27/1712/ed/2510c9d48ea3.jpg) (http://radikal.ru)

Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 30, 2017, 05:46:58 PM
Russia was “still there” when it’s leaders were sending millions to their deaths at Lubyanka or in gulags. So, not really proof of anything.
Title: Скучно, девочки )))))))))
Post by: Doll on December 30, 2017, 06:03:49 PM
Russia was “still there” when it’s leaders were sending millions to their deaths at Lubyanka or in gulags. So, not really proof of anything.


Скучно, девочки (В.В. Путин)
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 30, 2017, 06:19:30 PM
ГУЛАГ-Главное Управление Лагерей , so it can't be plural.
Title: Re: No More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 30, 2017, 11:15:27 PM

As for "best cheeses"- Russians don't care, they (we) have seen much worse times , for example, 90s.

'Sure', that's why your 'hero' got upset about re-branded EU dairy produce arriving with Belarus labels ))

Life is a bit "tight" but there are no "bad news". As for my "hero", he is a very strong talented President. I am glad he is running for the presidency again.
You may live in Russia for years and still won't understand their spirit.
By posting these videos I want to say that the country lives quite a decent life.


I think I 'get' the spirit' - just fine....   Your 'hero' is indeed popular...   He isn't at all frightened of allowing new political parties to form and never feels the need to allow political opponents to be convicted for misdemeanours to exclude them from running...



Title: Putin's New Year address
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2017, 07:28:25 AM
We, Russians, call the way Bo and msmob conduct  the discussion "Shell Game".

You  need to be a Russian speaking person to understand what I am implying.

Anyway, before they have an English version, enjoy this one



Putin's New Year Address 2018


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhURkhCxJIM
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 31, 2017, 08:10:40 AM
Sorry Doll



'Patriots' ( to me) are folk that won't / can't see the damage we do to other ( weaker) nations

I hardly think the Sunni majority in Syria will be having a 'happy new year .... while your 'hero' tries to sell this made Russia 'safer' ..((

Carry on in blissful ignorance


Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2017, 08:27:18 AM
Keep your "ignorance" to yourself.

I am not used to talking to a rude person.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 31, 2017, 08:31:35 AM
Keep your "ignorance" to yourself.

I am not used to talking to a rude person.

Truth hurting, perhaps ....   ?
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: kynrazor on December 31, 2017, 08:41:15 AM
Truth hurting, perhaps ....   ?

Perhaps the truth is every country has its own dirty laundry. Even the UK has its own issues with the Westminster Parliamentary system.

But does that mean the UK has more dirty laundry than Russia or vice versa? Hard to say.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on December 31, 2017, 09:12:13 AM
Perhaps the truth is every country has its own dirty laundry. Even the UK has its own issues with the Westminster Parliamentary system.

But does that mean the UK has more dirty laundry than Russia or vice versa? Hard to say.

Naturally, we had and to a MUCH lessor extent, now- have..

I made no distinction re my non-respect for patriotism - anywhere !

'We' don't

1/  make it impossible for new political parties to be formed

2/ nor find ways to stop folks running for office..

3/ Control the biggest TV channels output..

*I* can't remember when 'we' invaded a nation and then made part of it 'ours', either

Title: Re: Putin's New Year address
Post by: Boethius on December 31, 2017, 09:57:15 AM
We, Russians, call the way Bo and msmob conduct  the discussion "Shell Game".

You  need to be a Russian speaking person to understand what I am implying.

Anyway, before they have an English version, enjoy this one

I knew exactly what you were implying, but it’s because you misunderstood what I posted.
Title: Re: Putin's New Year address
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2017, 12:03:51 PM
 ъъъъ
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 31, 2017, 12:10:17 PM
Yes. You did. Had you not, you would not have responded as you did.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 09:17:51 AM
Back to the bridges VVP is kindly building

Can you imagine? Some folks elsewhere are telling us the road bridge should be open by now ?

http://russiafeed.com/russia-says-crimean-bridge-opened-motor-vehicles-month/ (http://russiafeed.com/russia-says-crimean-bridge-opened-motor-vehicles-month/)

I pointed out a link from a Russian construction site and that even the www.most.life site shows 'end of 2018 and late 2019' for the rail bridge...   

...and I'm posting 'mis-info' :)))
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on January 02, 2018, 10:31:06 AM
And remember the Germans have already succeeded in building such a bridge, that lasted for awhile . . .
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on March 14, 2018, 10:27:31 PM
No doubt about the  great leader- just look at what he has achieved ! ( NOT) !!!! :rolleyes:
There has been a significant fall in the number of deaths from cardio-vascular illness, tuberculosis and cancer in Russia.  That’s if you believe the statistics, and don’t ask too many questions about the increase in deaths from a number of other illnesses, as well as from ‘unknown causes’.


Dead Souls for Putin: Even Death Statistics are Fiddled in Russia




It is likely that the answer to just one question would suffice, since all of this appears to be linked with one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s ‘May decrees’ back in 2012.

In that decree, Putin demanded that particular attention be paid to lowering the mortality rate for cardio-vascular illness; cancer and tuberculosis, as well as infant mortality and deaths from road accidents.   

It is since then that Russians have begun dying of rare illnesses, and unknown causes, Vedomosti reports, citing statistics from both RANEPA [the Russian Presidential Academy of the National Economy and Public Administration] and the Federal State Statistics Service.

Ramilya Khasanova from RANEPA points out that such developments are observed only in some regions.  Her monitoring suggests that these regions are trying to carry out the objectives expressed in the 2012 decree, as well as in the Framework for Demographic Policy until 2025.

Putin, for example, recently boasted in an address to the Federal Assembly of success in fighting cardio-vascular disease.

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1520943894
Title: Public Fury Over Children’s Deaths in Mall
Post by: JayH on March 27, 2018, 05:10:59 PM
Official deaths at 64 -- but very strong rumours of over 400 are circulating.
What a joke Putin's words are -- his corrupt kleptocracy presides over corruption as a way of life -- then he has the temerity to blame the deaths on others -- for their corruption.

This is a truly shocking tragedy .This type of centre sounds very similar to many others all across the FSU.



Public Fury Over Children’s Deaths in Mall


Eager to keep control of the story, Mr. Putin warned people to stick to official information. “You know it very well that social media is a murky source unfortunately,” he told officials and relatives in Kemerovo. “We need to rely on the results of the actual inquiry.”

That Russia is far from being a monolithic one-party state, despite Mr. Putin’s lopsided re-election, was clear Tuesday evening in the two events organized to mourn the dead in Kemerovo.

One was state-sponsored, near the Kremlin; the other was held in Pushkin Square, by Muscovites who wanted no part in the official gathering. The alternative wake began as a solemn vigil with mourners burning candles and laying flowers, some of them in tears, but gradually turned into a small-scale political rally with chants of “Russian without Putin!” “Corruption kills!” “Shame on television!” and “Silence means death!”

Instead of fuming at the United States and its allies, Mr. Putin, during his Siberia trip, used another tool in his repertoire of responses to most problems: He set the security apparatus to work, telling relatives of the victims that the Investigative Committee, Russia’s answer to the F.B.I., had deployed 100 investigators and would find those responsible for the fire and punish them.

He blamed “criminal negligence” and “slovenliness” for the blaze, which started in a children’s play area and then swept through nearby cinemas crowded with young people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/world/europe/russia-kemerovo-fire.html
Title: Re: Public Fury Over Children’s Deaths in Mall
Post by: jone on March 27, 2018, 06:19:11 PM
Official deaths at 64 -- but very strong rumours of over 400 are circulating.
What a joke Putin's words are -- his corrupt kleptocracy presides over corruption as a way of life -- then he has the temerity to blame the deaths on others -- for their corruption.

This is a truly shocking tragedy .This type of centre sounds very similar to many others all across the FSU.



Public Fury Over Children’s Deaths in Mall


Eager to keep control of the story, Mr. Putin warned people to stick to official information. “You know it very well that social media is a murky source unfortunately,” he told officials and relatives in Kemerovo. “We need to rely on the results of the actual inquiry.”

That Russia is far from being a monolithic one-party state, despite Mr. Putin’s lopsided re-election, was clear Tuesday evening in the two events organized to mourn the dead in Kemerovo.

One was state-sponsored, near the Kremlin; the other was held in Pushkin Square, by Muscovites who wanted no part in the official gathering. The alternative wake began as a solemn vigil with mourners burning candles and laying flowers, some of them in tears, but gradually turned into a small-scale political rally with chants of “Russian without Putin!” “Corruption kills!” “Shame on television!” and “Silence means death!”

Instead of fuming at the United States and its allies, Mr. Putin, during his Siberia trip, used another tool in his repertoire of responses to most problems: He set the security apparatus to work, telling relatives of the victims that the Investigative Committee, Russia’s answer to the F.B.I., had deployed 100 investigators and would find those responsible for the fire and punish them.

He blamed “criminal negligence” and “slovenliness” for the blaze, which started in a children’s play area and then swept through nearby cinemas crowded with young people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/world/europe/russia-kemerovo-fire.html

The number I heard was 340 Killed.  Absent a free press, there seems to be the old Soviet Underground that is spreading news quickly.
Title: Re: Public Fury Over Children’s Deaths in Mall
Post by: BillyB on March 27, 2018, 06:45:52 PM
He blamed “criminal negligence” and “slovenliness” for the blaze, which started in a children’s play area and then swept through nearby cinemas crowded with young people.



Putin should start charging government officials. They write the building codes and their inspectors can be bribed to allow shoddy construction. More fire resistant materials should be used and a fire sprinkler system would help slow any fire. More fire exits would help too. It's an extremely rare event that just happened so no need for knee jerk reactions. Change takes time but the first change needs to happen at government levels.
Title: Re: Public Fury Over Children’s Deaths in Mall
Post by: deccie on March 30, 2018, 09:26:33 AM

Putin should start charging government officials. They write the building codes and their inspectors can be bribed to allow shoddy construction. More fire resistant materials should be used and a fire sprinkler system would help slow any fire. More fire exits would help too. It's an extremely rare event that just happened so no need for knee jerk reactions. Change takes time but the first change needs to happen at government levels.

Disasters on this scale may be rare but fires in buildings happen on a regular basis and are frequent. The standard of most electrical work is very low. I've seen a lot of distribution boards that did not even have fuses, let alone breakers. I've seen a lot of sub standard wiring used as well.  Even if there were more fire exists how do you get around them being locked by staff? From my perspective the disaster represents a systemic issue from top to bottom of the entire system here. But you will probably see a few mid level officials blamed and perhaps the complex owner as well. Nothing will change as a result though and we will just move onto the next disaster.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on March 30, 2018, 09:37:44 AM
The first apartment we lived in here had the distribution board go up in flames. The electrical company came out and "repaired it" with electrical tape. We moved.
Title: Re: Public Fury Over Children’s Deaths in Mall
Post by: Boethius on March 30, 2018, 12:37:59 PM
Disasters on this scale may be rare but fires in buildings happen on a regular basis and are frequent. The standard of most electrical work is very low. I've seen a lot of distribution boards that did not even have fuses, let alone breakers. I've seen a lot of sub standard wiring used as well. 
That's a post Soviet development.  Fuses and breakers were on every board in Soviet times.  They also had inspectors, and like here, a code.  If it was a city owned building, the city even had centralized systems which told them of any fuse that went out.  My husband says after the collapse, when things were privatized, a lot of gangsters took over those services.
Title: Re: Public Fury Over Children’s Deaths in Mall
Post by: deccie on March 30, 2018, 01:58:53 PM
That's a post Soviet development.  Fuses and breakers were on every board in Soviet times.  They also had inspectors, and like here, a code.  If it was a city owned building, the city even had centralized systems which told them of any fuse that went out.  My husband says after the collapse, when things were privatized, a lot of gangsters took over those services.

Privatisation is the  easy excuse for Russians but there is more than that at work. For example my wife witnessed a supermarket manager deliberately altering the food expiry dates on perishables. He also abused his staff and denied them basic toilet breaks. My wife had a manager try to get her to be involved in a scheme to falsely bill to staff stock that had supposedly "gone missing". Except the scheme was completely fake. Essentially there are a large group of people out there trying to defraud others every chance they get. They see it as the way to get ahead. That is why you need to be very careful what food you buy here - because a lot of that is also altered now.  Fake cheese is one big issue in places. Water injected into vegetables to increase weight is another and I could go on and on... Medical scams is yet another.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on March 30, 2018, 03:14:16 PM



Fuses and breakers still need to be installed by people who know electricity. If a wire can handle 20 amps before it starts to get hot and burn and a person installs a 30 amp fuse or breaker with the wire the wire will burn before the breaker or fuse works.


There would be more tragedies in the FSU if the homes and apartments were made out of wood instead of brick and concrete.
Title: Re: Public Fury Over Children’s Deaths in Mall
Post by: SANDRO43 on March 30, 2018, 05:11:27 PM
Water injected into vegetables to increase weight is another and I could go on and on...
Old scams seem never to die completely :D. I remember when I was a kid and coal-burning was still the preferred house-heating method, seeing open delivery lorries driving around town with delicate fume spirals emanating from their cargo due to excess water evaporating ;).
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on March 30, 2018, 07:49:10 PM


There would be more tragedies in the FSU if the homes and apartments were made out of wood instead of brick and concrete.

How much time did you spend in the FSU Billy?
Many still ARE. We are in the centre of the city, yet there are still many houses over a century old made of wood still in use and even some apartment buildings.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on March 30, 2018, 08:06:51 PM
How much time did you spend in the FSU Billy?
Many still ARE. We are in the centre of the city, yet there are still many houses over a century old made of wood still in use and even some apartment buildings.


Plenty of time. Even spend time out in the middle of nowhere. The percentage of wood used and the percentage of homes that use wood are much lower than in America. If shoddy construction happened often in America, a lot of homes would be burning up.


Seattle and San Francisco had huge fires over a hundred years ago. Almost 75% of San Fran burned down and 20 blocks of Seattle burned up. Seattle rebuilt their downtown with stone and brick to prevent fire. New construction codes were created. Although shoddy construction happens in the FSU, the huge amount of stone and brick construction they have saved lives.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on March 30, 2018, 08:19:36 PM

Fuses and breakers still need to be installed by people who know electricity. If a wire can handle 20 amps before it starts to get hot and burn and a person installs a 30 amp fuse or breaker with the wire the wire will burn before the breaker or fuse works.


Of course Billy. But I'd also add another proviso. People need to care to do good work. So they may well know the possible result and do shody work anyway. It is VERY common to see extension leads in use that are over 20-30 metres. That alone is quite dangerous. And my pet bug bear is the Chinese Christmas lights that can start a fire on their own. Banned at home!
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on March 30, 2018, 08:26:56 PM

Plenty of time. Even spend time out in the middle of nowhere. The percentage of wood used and the percentage of homes that use wood are much lower than in America. If shoddy construction happened often in America, a lot of homes would be burning up.


Seattle and San Francisco had huge fires over a hundred years ago. Almost 75% of San Fran burned down and 20 blocks of Seattle burned up. Seattle rebuilt their downtown with stone and brick to prevent fire. New construction codes were created. Although shoddy construction happens in the FSU, the huge amount of stone and brick construction they have saved lives.

Been through several fires myself. One was a hotel fire in New Orleans (on our floor)and another was in the apartment complex I lived in back in Montreal. I have to disagree with you on this since most fatalities are due to asphyxiation or Carbon Monoxide poisoning. It's the fuel load and type that will cause the most deaths. So the prevalence of plastics and other  combustibles that make  toxic gases when they burn will be far more important than concrete and steel. The hotel fire back in NO was memorable for the people of floors above us throwing their suitcases down the stairs.  Had to dodge them as we got out... Couldn't get to the fire escape. That was where the fire was..
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on March 30, 2018, 08:37:54 PM
I would also add the Russian penchant to store crap in their balconies adds an easy vector for fire to spread from apartment to apartment. Some designs also have a storage area outside the main door. (Ours is one of those designs. But the people in our complex are generally good and don't store a pile of crap there.)
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on March 30, 2018, 09:38:58 PM
most fatalities are due to asphyxiation or Carbon Monoxide poisoning.



That is true, most people die before fire reaches them but the deaths are still a result of fire.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on March 30, 2018, 10:19:17 PM

Plenty of time. Even spend time out in the middle of nowhere. The percentage of wood used and the percentage of homes that use wood are much lower than in America. If shoddy construction happened often in America, a lot of homes would be burning up.


I think electrical fire rates are increasing again due to the disposable nature of many appliances now.  I know dishwashers are one risk item in western homes.  Use of smoke alarms certainly helps things on the western side. As for "middle of nowhere", my wife has a more colorful phrase to describe this type of location. She calls such places "Arse of the world".
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on April 02, 2018, 05:54:22 PM
...As for "middle of nowhere", my wife has a more colorful phrase to describe this type of location. She calls such places "Arse of the world".

When my company did a project in the Solomon Islands some years ago, I was told by someone (before I went) that it was "the armpit of the Pacific."  Once I had been there a couple of days I knew exactly what they meant.  :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on April 02, 2018, 08:00:21 PM
When my company did a project in the Solomon Islands some years ago, I was told by someone (before I went) that it was "the armpit of the Pacific."  Once I had been there a couple of days I knew exactly what they meant.  :thumbsdown:

I've been to Guadalcanal myself. I loved the place, but that was pre-civil war days. I  disliked Fiji on the other hand.. My Father managed to pick up malaria in Honiara though so that was a significant down..
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: DaveNY on April 16, 2018, 02:55:56 PM
The list of oligarchs being arrested, reportedly on orders from the Kremlin, meaning Putin, is getting longer. Moscow authorities were in such a hurry to arrest Russian billionaire Ziyavudin Magomedov  that he was sent off to jail in his track suit.

Magomedov and his family were headed for his private plane and a vacation in Miami or was it to seek asylum in Miami? His older brother, Magomed, a former member of Russia’s Federation Council, is already behind bars. Possibly Putin is planning a family reunion in prison for the brothers?

U.S. sanctions have cost Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska over a billionaire US dollars in a single day. Even for a billionaire that must hurt.

Add in the repercussions of US sanctions against Russian billionaires and perhaps the oligarchs are beginning to feel the pinch and maybe they're starting to rebel? Are the arrests Putin's way of saying he's still in control?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/vladimir-putins-billionaire-buddies-are-getting-scared-and-not-just-of-sanctions?yptr=yahoo
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Sting23 on April 16, 2018, 03:15:35 PM
Just another day in paradise.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BillyB on April 16, 2018, 07:08:23 PM

A few rich Russians took their families and packed their bags for America or Europe. They can't get arrested in the West but some do get assassinated. Putin is sending a message "If I can't have you, nobody will".
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on April 16, 2018, 08:14:48 PM

Add in the repercussions of US sanctions against Russian billionaires and perhaps the oligarchs are beginning to feel the pinch and maybe they're starting to rebel? Are the arrests Putin's way of saying he's still in control?



Oleg came to  many in the west's attention when he send escort girls to Navalny s offices with a TV crew. Navalny,  whose  name VVP will not have mentioned in his presence (hearsay?) investigated the 'visit' and tracked said Oleg's girlfriend to secret meetings with government  officials, abroad.

Yesterday, the journo credited with the research that saw instagram and Google asked to remove evidence 'commited suicide'....

 

Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on April 16, 2018, 08:27:25 PM
is that the same Russian journalist who recently fell out a window?
the one who helped uncover informatze that the Kremlin funded Russian private security firm Wagner had "hundreds of losses" in Syria inflicted by American forces, or is it another journalist?  how many journalists are left in Russia, 3-4???

Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Sting23 on April 16, 2018, 08:48:56 PM
Look up Boris Berezovsky.  Exiled in London.  Found hanged in his own house.  Some say it was suicide, others murder.  Only Putin knows.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on April 17, 2018, 02:46:59 AM
Indeed ...look him up..He took on and lost a very expensive court battle in the UK with his one time apprentice, Abramovich,  who steers a path that has kept him in both UK and RU good books.

It was accepted that Mr B had committed  suicide,

Now it is being looked at, again.

Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: DaveNY on May 05, 2018, 07:48:42 PM
It seems not everyone in Russia is happy Putin has been reelected. Putin's inauguration is in a few days and hundreds have been arrested in Moscow for unlawful demonstrations. Demonstrations were held in dozens of cities across Russia attended by thousands of people. 

http://www.voanews.com/a/anti-putin-opposition-leader-arrested-as-protests-unfold-across-russia/4381057.html
http://abcnews.go.com/International/hundreds-arrested-anti-putin-demonstrations-russia/story?id=54957508
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on May 05, 2018, 10:24:04 PM
Not just Moscow
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: DaveNY on May 05, 2018, 10:58:52 PM
Not just Moscow

Do you think Putin's worried about a possible coup by the military or perhaps civilian authorities?
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on May 05, 2018, 11:42:44 PM
Do you think Putin's worried about a possible coup by the military or perhaps civilian authorities?

Worried, but not overly concerned - they keep reorganising the Police / RusGuard, etc., so no-one can rise and counter the closed circle... new blood is bred via the right universities
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on May 06, 2018, 12:17:44 AM
Do you think Putin's worried about a possible coup by the military or perhaps civilian authorities?

Losing Crimea will trigger internal action against Putin  ;D
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2018, 12:41:51 AM

I really don't think Crimea is the most pressing issue in Ukraine at the moment
it was less than 5% of the total population and contributed little to the overall economy of the country...
and the people who lived there 90% patriotic Russians who hated the rotten corrupt Ukrainian government
who did nothing but steal...

what matters is that Ukraine is an empty hollowed-out shell
run by crooks of all kinds
unable to stand up to the bully
that's stealing its lunch money








Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on May 06, 2018, 06:16:56 AM
Worried, but not overly concerned - they keep reorganising the Police / RusGuard, etc., so no-one can rise and counter the closed circle... new blood is bred via the right universities

Not only. They have recently replaced a lot of the regional Governor's over the last 2-3 years. Including the one here - and the Mayor. Mind you, the Mayor was despised by many here for his antics..
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 06, 2018, 06:40:07 AM
Losing Crimea will trigger internal action against Putin  ;D

how would they lose it?  not tie it up at night, and it wanders off?

look at classic Russian political struggles
like Peter and the Streltsy
this is Putin's real threat
and not the "people"

do you know how many different mafia groups there are "in the circle"
any one of them could be the "one"


 
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: ML on May 06, 2018, 07:29:23 AM
It seems not everyone in Russia is happy Putin has been reelected. Putin's inauguration is in a few days and hundreds have been arrested in Moscow for unlawful demonstrations. Demonstrations were held in dozens of cities across Russia attended by thousands of people. 

http://www.voanews.com/a/anti-putin-opposition-leader-arrested-as-protests-unfold-across-russia/4381057.html
http://abcnews.go.com/International/hundreds-arrested-anti-putin-demonstrations-russia/story?id=54957508

I don't think this means anything regarding Putin's control being in danger.

Remember there were protests in USA after Donald's election. 
And right now there is a lot of protesting in France over Macron's decisions.
Just a normal process in free countries, and even those with less freedom.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on May 06, 2018, 08:00:27 AM
I don't think this means anything regarding Putin's control being in danger.
.

I agree ML. The numbers are rather meaningless. 1000 people across the country when St Petersburg alone is 5 million...
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on May 07, 2018, 08:31:29 AM
A year old but dont think I have seen it here.


(http://i.imgur.com/YjYQTuE.png)

Someone had to break the news to Putin that they just lost 50% of their intelligence surveillance ships to a flock of Romanian sheep.

http://www.neweurope.eu/article/sheep-carrying-cargo-romania-sinks-russian-military-vessel/ (http://www.neweurope.eu/article/sheep-carrying-cargo-romania-sinks-russian-military-vessel/)
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: BC on May 15, 2018, 11:52:13 PM
For the naysayers

Quote
The automobile section of the Kerch Strait Bridge, said to be the longest bridge in Europe, was completed six months ahead of schedule. Putin touted it as an historic achievement and a dream that eluded Russian czars and leaders throughout the 2oth century.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/15/611392565/putins-bridge-linking-russia-to-annexed-crimea-opens
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 16, 2018, 12:28:01 AM
It's sort of their New Reich Chancellery, isn't it?  Of course, we're talking about Russians, not Germans.  I personally would hesitate to be on such a long bridge constructed in Russia.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on May 20, 2018, 12:20:44 PM
Russia is slowly losing one of it's main exports to rival nations like Ukraine and China. The SAM failures recently in Syria probably don't help either.....


"Delhi has “consciously diversified its arms imports” away from Moscow because “Russia doesn’t make deliveries on time, raises prices during the course of the contract, blocks the transfer of technology, and is “insufficiently reliable” in delivering spare parts."



http://euromaidanpress.com/2018/05/19/china-now-building-five-frigates-a-year-russia-only-one-every-ten/
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on May 20, 2018, 08:13:39 PM
Russia is slowly losing one of it's main exports to rival nations like Ukraine and China. The SAM failures recently in Syria probably don't help either.....


"Delhi has “consciously diversified its arms imports” away from Moscow because “Russia doesn’t make deliveries on time, raises prices during the course of the contract, blocks the transfer of technology, and is “insufficiently reliable” in delivering spare parts."



Lol, that's funny because I remember the issues India had with Antonov upgrading some of their transports...
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on May 20, 2018, 08:31:46 PM
Lol, that's funny because I remember the issues India had with Antonov upgrading some of their transports...


Not sure how much better the Chinese will be tbh   :)
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on May 20, 2018, 08:47:12 PM

Not sure how much better the Chinese will be tbh   :)
Worked with many Chinese companies on our large projects. They are horrible. The only advantage being price because they don't meet deadlines and their quality was  appallingly bad. Their documentation also being poor to non existent.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 21, 2018, 05:04:09 PM
Worked with many Chinese companies on our large projects. They are horrible. The only advantage being price because they don't meet deadlines and their quality was  appallingly bad. Their documentation also being poor to non existent.

That possibly depends on the industry.  Much of the telecommunications equipment on two out of the three mobile networks in New Zealand is Chinese (Huawei), and the latest models are a vast improvement on some of the earlier gear which was imported (I'm not talking about mobile phones, but rather the network base station elements).  I'm aware that the USA has banned their equipment, and there have always been tongue-in-cheek references to all Huawei equipment being bugged and sending recordings of everything back to China, but the new equipment is proving extremely reliable.

Yes, deadlines can sometimes be a problem, but not as much now as in the past.  The quality of documentation is also improving, although not to the level I would like to see.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on May 21, 2018, 07:22:51 PM
That possibly depends on the industry.  Much of the telecommunications equipment on two out of the three mobile networks in New Zealand is Chinese (Huawei), and the latest models are a vast improvement on some of the earlier gear which was imported (I'm not talking about mobile phones, but rather the network base station elements).  I'm aware that the USA has banned their equipment, and there have always been tongue-in-cheek references to all Huawei equipment being bugged and sending recordings of everything back to China, but the new equipment is proving extremely reliable.

Yes, deadlines can sometimes be a problem, but not as much now as in the past.  The quality of documentation is also improving, although not to the level I would like to see.
I think Australia has also limited where the Chinese telco stuff can be installed based on the possibility of back doors (which is incredibly ironic consider the US back doors any Cisco gear that leaves the US).
The  stuff I was referring to above is large heavy industrial plant and equipment. Everything from steel work to process control gear.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 21, 2018, 07:30:06 PM
I think Australia has also limited where the Chinese telco stuff can be installed based on the possibility of back doors (which is incredibly ironic consider the US back doors any Cisco gear that leaves the US).

The irony for me is that my company (on behalf of the telcos) is replacing a lot of Cisco gear with Huawei equipment.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on May 21, 2018, 07:57:55 PM
The irony for me is that my company (on behalf of the telcos) is replacing a lot of Cisco gear with Huawei equipment.
What is the advantage? A lot of the major companies I worked for always had huge discounts so they never paid the "normal" Cisco pricing.
Title: Russian Missiles Not As Described by Putin...
Post by: alex330 on May 22, 2018, 08:08:39 AM

Putin claimed a new nuclear-powered missile had unlimited range — but it flew only 22 miles in its most successful test yet.


The cruise missile was tested four times between November 2017 and February 2018, each resulting in a crash.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on May 22, 2018, 09:41:31 AM
Reminds me of the START treaty, when the US went into Russia and found that most of the missiles that were to be put out to pasture never had the capability of flying in the first place.  I think I read that only one out of five could actually reach the US.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2018, 09:49:22 AM

ABMS are becoming practical
good thing we already dropped out of the treaty
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Anotherkiwi on May 22, 2018, 05:46:18 PM
What is the advantage? A lot of the major companies I worked for always had huge discounts so they never paid the "normal" Cisco pricing.

Compatability mainly.  As cell sites are upgraded with additional LTE (4G) capacity and modernised equipment, and are future-proofed for 5G and later advances, it makes economic and software sense to have antennas, remote radio units and base stations all from the same manufacturer.  Of course there are plenty of sites with mixed equipment, but that will presumably get rationalised over time.

It also doesn't matter what price Cisco, Kathrein, Nokia or any other major manufacturer comes up with - Huawei, Tongyu and ZTE will always be able to undercut them.
Title: Occupied Crimea is Running out of Water
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2018, 06:33:12 PM
http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/07/20/occupied-crimea-is-running-out-of-water/

a good article about the North Crimean Canal
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2018, 06:51:31 PM
you're hearing this straight from Krimster
Russia is creating new hybrid military units in Crimea formed from local Crimeans
specifically to be used in Ukraine!!!!
and there's something strange about it...
they're to be a "fifth column"
i'm counting them in the low thousands
they don't seem to be organized as regular army units
smaller sized units
public schools are all militarized now with army uniforms
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: alex330 on May 22, 2018, 08:35:16 PM
public schools are all militarized now with army uniforms


I was under the impression that this was always done. Crimea was the destination for youth camps and the FSU version of JROTC. My wife wanted to go as a child, but they could not afford it. And there is a tv show called "cadets" even.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2018, 08:43:15 PM
no, almost not at all in Ukrainian period, and I had two of my own children in the school system in Sevastopol then
only militarization was for older kids who were part of an honor guard for WWII monument, but this was very few and voluntary
now is military uniform for schools, marching

can't say much more until later...
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 08:45:35 PM
Pioneer camps, not militarized camps.

Sevastopol and around the city were closed in Soviet times, so no one could visit without authorization.

The honour guard existed in Soviet times as well, and was not military in nature, at least, not with military training.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 22, 2018, 08:54:19 PM
yeah, I don't know too much about the Soviet Period, haven't experienced it myself :)
my wife was a Комсомо́л
but I do know the Ukrainian period
and there was no militarization other than the honor guard
now, it's different!!!!!!!!

I want to write more but can't...
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 22, 2018, 08:58:08 PM
my wife was a Комсомо́л


Then she would have been informing on my husband's family.  But hey!  At least she admits her membership.  Most former commies and komsomol members deny their membership entirely now.  They were always "ardent nationalists". :P
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: deccie on May 23, 2018, 04:14:55 AM
Compatability mainly.  As cell sites are upgraded with additional LTE (4G) capacity and modernised equipment, and are future-proofed for 5G and later advances, it makes economic and software sense to have antennas, remote radio units and base stations all from the same manufacturer.  Of course there are plenty of sites with mixed equipment, but that will presumably get rationalised over time.

It also doesn't matter what price Cisco, Kathrein, Nokia or any other major manufacturer comes up with - Huawei, Tongyu and ZTE will always be able to undercut them.

Makes sense then. Cisco isn't really a technology leader in that space.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 23, 2018, 04:40:06 AM
"Then she would have been informing on my husband's family.  But hey!  At least she admits her membership. "

just being a member was about the only activity she engaged in, she was young
but I liked her in her little Pioneer outfit, cute
at least you had family left alive to inform on...
so don't complain


Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 23, 2018, 05:33:43 AM
http://snob.ru/magazine/entry/36099

Bill is in Amsterdam giving a talk...
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: mhr7 on May 23, 2018, 05:49:00 AM
http://snob.ru/magazine/entry/36099

Bill is in Amsterdam giving a talk...
Masha Gessen, author of the article, has written some good books about Putin and Russia. I just finished one called 'The Future is History'. Bill has now devoted his life to ending corruption.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Boethius on May 23, 2018, 12:09:57 PM
at least you had family left alive to inform on...so don't complain

In one grandfather's family, everyone in Russia (as they originally were from Russia) was slaughtered, down to babies.  The grandfather and two siblings survived because they were in Ukraine, not Russia.  One brother retained his original surname.  He worked in an area the Bolsheviks desperately needed, so they did not kill him when they took Ukraine.  Grandfather's name had been changed, which is how he survived, though he was discovered, arrested and was to have been executed when Stalin died, leading to his release.  The last sibling who survived was female, and her surname was different.  Grandfather lived with her, as he was a child at the time of the Bolshevik Revolution.  By the time the Bolsheviks figured out who he was, and, therefore, who she was, she was quite elderly.

In one grandmother's family, all the men were academics.  All were executed but two, who were too world famous to execute.  Instead, they lost their positions and were denied jobs.  They, and their children, survived only because other family members fed and clothed them.

In the other grandfather's family, everyone was hunted and killed, even in Ukraine.  That grandfather hid in Siberia with his brother for seven years during Stalinism.  In his grandfather's case, he left behind his wife and five children.  But that disappearance was how they survived and were able to be reunited with their wives, eventually.  Everyone else in their family was killed.  Grandfather and his brother were able to survive because there was not yet an internal passport system.  They changed their name, which saved them in the Stalinist era, but their identities were eventually known to authorities, ensuring no jobs beyond menial labour, and they lived hand to mouth their entire lives.

In the other grandmother's family, everyone was killed but one sister, who fled to Siberia and built a life there, and one female cousin, who lived in St. Petersburg.  She survived as she had taken her husband's surname.

So, for the most part, no, they did not survive Bolshevism.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on May 23, 2018, 04:59:21 PM
the world tried to get rid of us
but we're still here

Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 04, 2018, 12:31:45 PM
Back to the bridges VVP is kindly building

Can you imagine? Some folks elsewhere are telling us the road bridge should be open by now ?

http://russiafeed.com/russia-says-crimean-bridge-opened-motor-vehicles-month/ (http://russiafeed.com/russia-says-crimean-bridge-opened-motor-vehicles-month/)

I pointed out a link from a Russian construction site and that even the www.most.life site shows 'end of 2018 and late 2019' for the rail bridge...   

...and I'm posting 'mis-info' :)))

Well, the ROAD bridge opened to cars in June and on the 1st October freight vehicles can now use it ...

The rail bridge is beset with problems ..'technical problems'  meant a whole section collapsed

Video:

http://player.vgtrk.com/iframe/video/id/1829504/start_zoom/true/showZoomBtn/false/sid/vesti/isPlay/true/?acc_video_id=771221 (http://player.vgtrk.com/iframe/video/id/1829504/start_zoom/true/showZoomBtn/false/sid/vesti/isPlay/true/?acc_video_id=771221)


 
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: DaveNY on October 04, 2018, 02:46:42 PM
Well, the ROAD bridge opened to cars in June and on the 1st October freight vehicles can now use it ...


Were they testing the bridge's weight capacity with civilian vehicles before allowing the much heavier freight vehicles across? Is that why the delay in allowing larger vehicles across?  ;D ;D
Title: Accident hits Kerch bridge between Russia and Ukraine’s Occupied Crimea
Post by: JayH on October 05, 2018, 12:29:18 AM
MMM !! :deadhorse:


Accident hits Kerch bridge between Russia and Ukraine’s Occupied Crimea

A section of the Kerch railway bridge plunged into the water as it was being put in place on Oct. 4, halting work on the illegal link between Russia and Ukraine’s Russian-occupied Crimea.

The Kremlin-controlled news website Ria Novosti reported that accident happened over open water between the Tuzla Split and Tuzla Island. No one was injured during the incident, the media said.

It will take the company constructing the bridge a month to repair the damage and install a new railway bridge section, but the opening of the railway bridge is not expected to be delayed, Ria Novosti said.

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/accident-hits-kerch-bridge-between-russia-and-ukraines-crimea.html
Title: Re: Accident hits Kerch bridge between Russia and Ukraine’s Occupied Crimea
Post by: msmob on October 05, 2018, 12:34:10 AM
MMM !! :deadhorse:


Accident hits Kerch bridge between Russia and Ukraine’s Occupied Crimea

A section of the Kerch railway bridge plunged into the water as it was being put in place on Oct. 4, halting work on the illegal link between Russia and Ukraine’s Russian-occupied Crimea.

The Kremlin-controlled news website Ria Novosti reported that accident happened over open water between the Tuzla Split and Tuzla Island. No one was injured during the incident, the media said.

It will take the company constructing the bridge a month to repair the damage and install a new railway bridge section, but the opening of the railway bridge is not expected to be delayed, Ria Novosti said.

http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/accident-hits-kerch-bridge-between-russia-and-ukraines-crimea.html

'Well done', JayH

Spotted and posted by yours truly MUCH earlier .. ... Do TRY to keep up ! ;)

"Well, the ROAD bridge opened to cars in June and on the 1st October freight vehicles can now use it ...

The rail bridge is beset with problems ..'technical problems'  meant a whole section collapsed "
Title: Re: Accident hits Kerch bridge between Russia and Ukraine’s Occupied Crimea
Post by: JayH on October 05, 2018, 12:54:21 AM
'Well done', JayH

Spotted and posted by yours truly MUCH earlier .. ... Do TRY to keep up ! ;)

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17720.msg473863#msg473863



OH really ? In your haste to keep proving what a complete and utter obnoxious idiot that you are  read what was said

ie "A section of the Kerch railway bridge plunged into the water as it was being put in place on Oct. 4,"

That was YESTERDAY on my calender !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 05, 2018, 01:48:00 AM
Don't be a Silly Billy, JayH

I meant you started a thread about the railway bridge failure when I had posted about it on here - nearly 16 hours earlier
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on October 05, 2018, 03:21:08 PM
 :mooning: :mooning: :mooning:
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on October 05, 2018, 10:59:49 PM
So, this is JayH's way of dealing with a situation when he is proven to have been clueless and careless  :popcorn:
Title: Pro-Russia party wins most votes in Latvia following Oct. 6 general election
Post by: ML on October 07, 2018, 07:38:26 PM
A pro-Russia party has won the most votes in Latvia following Oct. 6 general election.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45774578
Title: Russian Aircraft Carrier Suffers Damage While in Dry Dock
Post by: jone on October 31, 2018, 10:33:42 PM
Russia's only aircraft carrier, most recently posted to the coast off of Syria, was in dry dock in Murmansk when the dry dock sank and caused a crane to fall on the ship, damaging the deck.   This aircraft carrier has a history of unfortunate incidents, including an on board fire and mechanical mishaps.  It is rumored that the ship travels with its own seagoing tug so that if repairs are needed it can be towed into port.

Here is the article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/31/europe/russia-aircraft-carrier-dock-intl/index.html
Title: More Blame for the Americans / Kerch Shooting
Post by: jone on October 31, 2018, 10:45:40 PM
Wow. 

Russia is now establishing that Western influence and the subculture based on violence was the greatest factor in the shooting at the school in Kerch.

Here's the story.....

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/18/europe/crimea-killings-aftermath-intl/index.html
Title: Re: Russian Aircraft Carrier Suffers Damage While in Dry Dock
Post by: DaveNY on October 31, 2018, 10:49:35 PM
Russia's only aircraft carrier, most recently posted to the coast off of Syria, was in dry dock in Murmansk when the dry dock sank and caused a crane to fall on the ship, damaging the deck.   This aircraft carrier has a history of unfortunate incidents, including an on board fire and mechanical mishaps.  It is rumored that the ship travels with its own seagoing tug so that if repairs are needed it can be towed into port.

Here is the article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/31/europe/russia-aircraft-carrier-dock-intl/index.html

I'm sure Putin will soon be saying the aircraft carrier will be rebuilt so that it's bigger and better than anything America has.
Title: Re: More Blame for the Americans / Kerch Shooting
Post by: DaveNY on October 31, 2018, 11:12:15 PM
Wow. 

Russia is now establishing that Western influence and the subculture based on violence was the greatest factor in the shooting at the school in Kerch.

Here's the story.....

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/18/europe/crimea-killings-aftermath-intl/index.html

Jone, you and I both know the CIA did it in an attempt to destabilize Putin. Maybe NCIS and the FBI were also involved?
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on October 31, 2018, 11:34:54 PM
the REAL story about responsibility for the Kerch Shooting
will not ever be told in Russia

it's the same ole story
boy meets girl, oh wait no sorry, I mean
crazy guy gets a gun and shoots up a school
so how'd a crazy guy get a gun in Russia?
5 yr ago he might not have
but in 2014 Russia passed new gun laws
that basically stated that if you have all the correct paperwork
local cops MUST issue you a weapons permit
even if they know you are a right-wing nut case
who goes by the nickname "Reich"
and you know who was behind these gun laws?
well do ya?
it was Maria Butina!!!!
kid you not
go and ask google if you don't believe me


they will blame everything on America
avoiding all of their own responsibility
as usual...

you see comrades In Russia
America is perceived thanks to the kind information supplied by the Russian President
as a caravan that is slowly approaching its border
and can only be countered
by reinvigorating the Putin Jugend movement
at least it's not "build a wall" across the Bering Sea
so as f*cked up as this is
how is this country any better at the moment?



Title: Re: Russian Aircraft Carrier Suffers Damage While in Dry Dock
Post by: msmob on October 31, 2018, 11:44:27 PM
   This aircraft carrier has a history of unfortunate incidents, including an on board fire and mechanical mishaps.  It is rumored that the ship travels with its own seagoing tug so that if repairs are needed it can be towed into port.


I read that there were casualties and a death involved in the dry dock's sinking ((

It is all very well mocking poor 'ol Admiral Smith (Kusnetsov) - the smoke she belches makes her easy to spot - but the British Destroyer sent to shadow her as the carrier passed through the English Channel was a Type 45 - which also needs a tug, frequently ..

http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/final-cure-for-type-45-destroyer-propulsion-problems-announced/ (http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/final-cure-for-type-45-destroyer-propulsion-problems-announced/)
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on November 18, 2018, 06:37:19 PM


Moscow paper puts up and takes down article saying disintegration of Russia is ‘inevitable’


Putin Advisor Considers the Disintegration of Russia Inevitable

The third stage is certain; it will be accompanied by the separation of certain non-Russian ethnic territories from the present-day Russian Federation, the economist and political figure notes. “Such processes are usually accompanied by tragedies and blood. However, it is impossible to stop such tectonic forces of universal history.”

In Illarionov’s opinion, the disintegration of Russia will reduce military pressure on Ukraine depending on who will be sitting in the Kremlin. If the leader of Russia will be a responsible figure, then it is not impossible that democratic Ukraine will help Russia navigate this process in a way that will be less horrific for Russia itself as well as for the newly formed states.


http://euromaidanpress.com/2018/11/18/moscow-paper-puts-up-and-takes-down-article-saying-disintegration-of-russia-is-inevitable/
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on November 18, 2018, 11:21:54 PM
I wonder why it was takemn down ..

You missed this :

http://www.mk.ru/politics/2018/11/18/smi-soobshhili-o-gospitalizacii-obezdvizhennogo-yanukovicha.html (http://www.mk.ru/politics/2018/11/18/smi-soobshhili-o-gospitalizacii-obezdvizhennogo-yanukovicha.html)

"The media reported on the hospitalisation of a paralysed Yanukovych . According to journalists, he suffered a spinal injury."

Must have been some Tennis game !

Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JayH on April 10, 2019, 11:14:44 PM
The myth of Putin's "popularity" is exposed by the reality . The article attempts to categorise  and explain  the situation in Russia.
Not that the fall in popularity will matter much to Putin-he could be at 1%  and still be "elected" with 80% of the "votes" !

According to a poll by the Russian Center for the Study of Public Opinion (VTsIOM), which was published in late January, the trust rating for Vladimir Putin has reached its lowest level in the last 13 years.

 Currently, only 33% of respondents express trust in the Russian president.
 
At the same time, sociologists predict that Putin’s rating will continue to decline, primarily due to the decline in the standard of living and the popular disappointment with the “pension reform.”

The big question is at what point enough people with influence decide that Putin and his kleptocracy are finished .


Why some segments of Russian society still support Putin


In  general, it can be noted that, whatever the size of each of these conditional groups, against the background of a further decline in the standard of living of Russians, support for Vladimir Putin’s policy will continue to decline, and this process will become completely irreversible at a time when most Russians realize that Putin is solely to blame for those “external threats” from which he promises to protect his people.


http://euromaidanpress.com/2019/04/10/why-some-segments-of-russian-society-still-support-putin/
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: msmob on April 11, 2019, 12:17:25 AM
Not the smartest article to choose to 'make a point'..

1/ Putin's popularity is negative 70 percent and the 30 percent that still support him are too dense or have too much to lose by changing their minds

2/ No election is due to replace him or the Party he occasionally abandons as it suits... 'United' Russia

3/ The legal system is controlled by those with too much to lose

Indeed, this is bad news for Russians and Russia

The scary thing is any 'stunt' VVP may try to win back popularity ..( a la Crimea annexation )



Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Maxx2 on April 11, 2019, 05:55:15 AM

The scary thing is any 'stunt' VVP may try to win back popularity ..( a la Crimea annexation )


Or a false flag


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kug-fRun560
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 11, 2019, 08:47:44 AM
Anytime Putin's popularity flags, he can go back into Ukraine and create a populist movement through further conquest.
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: krimster2 on April 11, 2019, 09:09:33 AM
if you can read this image - does the writing style remind you of someone on this board?
BTW, former GRU officers, I am available to ghost write your memoirs, references provided and if your time is up we will protect your heirs just like we did Litvinenko's
me and Geoffrey Andrews are the best in the business!
c'mon I know you guys in the tower check this site

slovo

will be in Moscow this August getting ready for future events
blessed are the peace makers

I love the fact that NONE of you on this board know WTF is going on in Russia and Ukraine and have even the slightest clue of what's about to happen!!!

must...keep..mouth...shut...now...

just when I wanted to retire from all this
i'm confronted with the temptation that if I hang in there just a few more years I can end up with a nice piece of Odessa registered in the Russian Federation...
could live there part time running "bizness" as long as I keep it small and play well and share with others
it means my daughters will have to marry into a family as well

I dunno.....
but just the coin I'm gonna get for giving RT their next Samantha Smith translated into hectors makes me rethink things a little






Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: Gator on April 11, 2019, 03:24:57 PM
The myth of Putin's "popularity" is exposed by the reality .....Currently, only 33% of respondents express trust in the Russian president.

I posted in January my wife's dismay with the public criticism of Putin during her trip to Russia.  Even strangers such as taxi drivers complained about Putin and the economy.  I guess the momentum is building.
 

Quote
The big question is at what point enough people with influence decide that Putin and his kleptocracy are finished .

Ousting Putin would create much instability.  Putin would not go quietly into the sunset.  He would fight because if he were replaced, he would be imprisoned for corruption, etc.  For this reason, my wife does not want Putin ousted.  Instead, she hopes he takes measures to improve life for ordinary Russian people. 

Some RWD members above have hinted that Putin may make an aggressive move in Ukraine to increase his public support.  Such would not improve the economy, and instead could harm it if the West adds more sanctions against Russia.   One international event  that would help the Russian economy is political unrest in the Middle East.  The rise in oil prices would benefit  Russia,  Iran too.   
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: jone on April 11, 2019, 04:49:14 PM
I posted in January my wife's dismay with the public criticism of Putin during her trip to Russia.  Even strangers such as taxi drivers complained about Putin and the economy.  I guess the momentum is building.
 

Ousting Putin would create much instability.  Putin would not go quietly into the sunset.  He would fight because if he were replaced, he would be imprisoned for corruption, etc.  For this reason, my wife does not want Putin ousted.  Instead, she hopes he takes measures to improve life for ordinary Russian people. 

Some RWD members above have hinted that Putin may make an aggressive move in Ukraine to increase his public support.  Such would not improve the economy, and instead could harm it if the West adds more sanctions against Russia.   One international event  that would help the Russian economy is political unrest in the Middle East.  The rise in oil prices would benefit  Russia,  Iran too.

I inserted my tongue firmly into my cheek when I made that observation.   Am wondering how much money Putin dumped into Krim and Eastern Ukraine?  Maybe 100 Billion?  He can't be too happy right now about the sinking ship called Venezuela and all the cold hard Rubles he is going to lose there.
Title: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 03, 2021, 04:21:42 PM

The preview button doesn't work Sandoro.  I tried.

I haven't seen Mike post in a while, I'm going to send him a PM
to see what's up.

Bill
Title: Re: More Bad News for Russia
Post by: JohnDearGreen on February 25, 2021, 09:40:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIyTQAWMeo8#t=90