More Bad News for Ukraine

[papakota]

I highly doubt that most people in Ukraine consider Bandera and UPA heroes. I'm sure lots of people in Ukraine doesn't mind having Russian as a second state language. And I'm sure lots of Ukrainians want to fight corruption.
Even Klichko said that Bandera was not his hero. Klichko speaks Russian. And he's a Kiev mayor. And here come a few nobodies like my opponents who are rude and intolerant who try to preach me morals. Not only that, they think that they have a right to frighten  potential visitors to Ukraine. According to them, one has to change his life views just to visit safely Ukraine. I've been living in Russia for 3,5 years already and I openly express my opinion about Putin. It doesn't mean that I specifically express that in public. No. But if someone asks me, I would tell. Though most Russians would disagree with me, incl. my wife. And if it's really all that dangerous to come to Ukraine, then you can come to Russia and date here. It's generally safe here.

Moreover, when someone from the West comes to date in such a corrupt country like Ukraine, he must be ready that his future wife considers a bribe normal. When you date across the world, you must be ready to accept differences in mentality. Most regular people don't care too much about politics in Russia, especially women. They would change their views the minute they land in JFK.

You keep talking about invasion, annexation and killings. And I said that there's no connection between dating someone and the policy of the government in a country where she lives. Let's say if Vietnam invades Korea and a few thousands of Koreans die. Would that mean that I must avoid Vietnamese women? It's a total bs. Not only because that particular Vietnamese woman might be against the policies of her government, but also she could be too scared to go against the flow. I might disagree with some stuff that Putin does, but I didn't come to live in Russia to support Putin. I have my own reasons that have nothing to do with politics. It didn't bother me as a child what Brezhnev was doing in Afghanistan, why should it bother me what Putin does in Syria? I disagree with both of them, so what? There's no Russia # 2 somewhere without Putin. So if I want to live in Russia, then I have to accept Putin as President whether I support him or not. It's sad that people die in Ukraine because of a military conflict in Donbass. But people die everywhere. In just one year about 800 people were killed in Israel in terrorist acts. It was about 15 years ago when there was a second Intifada. According to your stupid logic, one from, say, Australia shouldn't date an Arab woman, 'cos Arab terrorists kill Jews? I dated an Egyptian woman in the US. Though I think she was Christian. US invaded Iraq and many thousands of Iraqis died. Does it mean that one shouldn't marry an American? Why do you apply different standards to Russia?
As I said before, you live by double standards. You can live anyway you like, just don't tell others what to do and to which country to go to get married. Mind your own business.

[alex330]

Moreover, when someone from the West comes to date in such a corrupt country like Ukraine, he must be ready that his future wife considers a bribe normal.

Growing up in LATAM I actually find a bribe more convenient and practical in some cases..... 


I can imagine some of the men here may have even had experience with it in getting some paperwork done in the FSU before their wives arrived.

[papakota]

I talked once in Kharkov with Ukrainian immigration officer about me possibly applying for a citizenship in Ukraine. It was a terrible experience. Russian immigration officials seem like angels to me after that experience in Kharkov. Old stupid immigration female officer in Kharkov literally told me "What do you want from Ukraine". And it's in a country where I have every right to live as a citizen. Here in Russia they are much more polite. I got my Russian citizenship and before that a permanent and temporary residences without any problems. Except the long lines in the office.
In Ukraine the attitude is much worse than here. Again, it's a generalization. But it's true. It's MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better for a westerner to get a visa and to come to Russia, than to come visa free to Ukraine. The one place in Ukraine I really enjoyed visiting was Uzhgorod. But most guys from the West don't go there anyway. Again, I'm not saying that Ukraine is not worth visiting and such. I'm just saying that Russia is better. Russia and Ukraine it's like USA and Canada, respectively.

[Boethius]

So you can't discuss Ukraine without inserting "Boo! фашисты!"   LOL.  Well, I guess that demonstrates how seriously anyone can take what you post.

No one has claimed every Ukrainian views Bandera or UPA as heroes.  The point has always been that some Ukrainians admire him for his view that Ukrainians have to fight for themselves if they want an independent country.

Yes, bribery never occurs in Russia.

[jone]

I really don't think Cat Daddy has been listening to anyone but himself. 

Many of the members of the forum love to go to Russia, myself included.  I spent all of last fall in two cities in Russia and then dipped down into Kazakhstan.  But that doesn't mean that Russia is better than Ukraine.  I have been there as well.  And I loved it.  People might have more luck finding a woman in either country.

Curious you should use United States and Canada as a parallel.  My experiences in Canada are wonderful.  I love going there.  Many will like Canada better than the US.  And, therefore choose to make it their home.  One of our moderators on this forum chose Canada from Eastern Europe.

Cat Daddy, why don't you just accept that either location is suitable for finding a wife and stop trying to lecture us as to which is better.  If you wish, tell us all of the wonderful things you love about Russia and we can come and judge for ourselves.  We have a wonderful friend of the forum who posts great things about Russian culture and heritage and I read it whenever I can.  I've even tried some of the recipes he has shared.  His name is Mendeleyev.  Look at some of his posts.  And if you choose, you can then follow his blog on Russian culture.

[Bounder]

I talked once in Kharkov with Ukrainian immigration officer about me possibly applying for a citizenship in Ukraine. It was a terrible experience. Russian immigration officials seem like angels to me after that experience in Kharkov. Old stupid immigration female officer in Kharkov literally told me "What do you want from Ukraine". And it's in a country where I have every right to live as a citizen. Here in Russia they are much more polite. I got my Russian citizenship and before that a permanent and temporary residences without any problems. Except the long lines in the office.
In Ukraine the attitude is much worse than here. Again, it's a generalization. But it's true. It's MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better for a westerner to get a visa and to come to Russia, than to come visa free to Ukraine. The one place in Ukraine I really enjoyed visiting was Uzhgorod. But most guys from the West don't go there anyway. Again, I'm not saying that Ukraine is not worth visiting and such. I'm just saying that Russia is better. Russia and Ukraine it's like USA and Canada, respectively.

Feel free to cut the crap on comparing Canada to Ukraine or Canada as undesirable destination when compared with the U.S.  Other than the abysmal weather up here, what you are saying is hogwash.

But that is just a throw away comment.  My real reason for feeling compelled to write is that I started to become concerned that you are an inauthentic troll.

My case is this.  See the words you wrote, which I bolded above.  You compare how easy it was to get your citizenship in Russia with what a headache it was in Ukraine.

Now,

Exhibit A:
November 10, 2016, 05:16:21 AM »
Once I become Russian citizen, I would be more open to discuss politics, but something tells me that you're not gonna like what I have to say.

Exhibit B:
November 10, 2016, 03:24:08 AM »
msmob,
Part of the misunderstanding is possibly due to our different perspectives. My perspective is one of a resident of Russia. Hopefully soon I'd be a citizen here.

Exhibit C:
November 12, 2016, 09:22:02 AM »
Once I become Russian citizen, I'll share my personal thoughts on current political events.

Possibly there are more examples of this, I haven't looked further.  If between November 12 and November 29, you received your Russian citizenship, then I hope you will accept my deep apologies for the point I am making.

Citizenship to a country is a very fundamental thing and your story is confused and contradictory.  People speaking authentically about their own experiences don't confuse the basics such as whether or not they have citizenship in a certain country.

You have made many references to receiving Russian citizenship in the future.  And now you are claiming you already received Russian citizenship.

So what is the real story? You are a Russian citizen?  You aren't a Russian citizen?  Which one, because you have claimed both now.

[papakota]

Bounder,
OK, I accept your deep apologies.  I became a temporary resident in Russia in 2013. I became a permanent resident in Russia in 2015 (decision was made in November 2014). I applied for Russian citizenship in May 2016 and got it in November 2016. It takes them up to 6 months to process an application in case you're married to a Russian citizen spouse. Officially I became a Russian citizen on Saturday when I signed an acceptance paper in local Immigration Office. I hope to get a Russian passport this month. The internal one. Frankly, I don't even know WHY do I have to prove anything to any of you, since so far no one here proved anything to me. But it's not a big secret about my status in Russia. I wasn't talking about Russia vs. Ukraine in terms of how easy it is to get papers, I was talking about AN ATTITUDE of immigration officers. You simply misunderstood me also in that regard. As a matter of fact, Russian immigration law is much more liberal and friendly than an immigration law in the Ukraine. A good example is its attitude towards a second citizenship. US vs. Canada is not a topic to discuss here. It's a long story and it's irrelevant here.

jone,
I'm not pushing my opinion on anyone. But I have a right to express it. Again, I never said it's a bad idea to come to Ukraine to meet a local woman for marriage. I did it myself back in 2005. Ukrainian women are very good looking and all, BUT... I highly doubt I could've found in Ukraine a wife who'd support me financially for over 3 years like my Russian wife does here. Also there's much higher chance a Russian woman will come to your country to meet you for the first time. Generally speaking, I think that Russian women are much more sincere and open. Also I think it's easier to win trust of a woman in Russia.

Boethius,
I never wanted to discuss politics here in the first place. You dragged me into it. Speaking of politics, here's another good example that there's no real war between Russia and Ukraine. My favorite singer in Ukraine is Ani Lorak. I think she's the best female singer in Ukraine since 1991. She sang in July in Saint Petersburg at a Russian Navy celebration event.

http://gordonua.com/news/society/ani-lorak-spela-na-koncerte-v-chest-320-letiya-voenno-morskogo-flota-rossii-142367.html

http://www.instagram.com/p/BIQgtu9ghgj/

http://miamusic.ru/report/7793-ani-lorak-pokazala-shou-karolina-na-bis-v-moskve.html

Funny to read comments from Ukrainians. Some say she's great, while others call her a traitor. It only proves my point about current events in Ukraine.

[jone]

jone,
I'm not pushing my opinion on anyone. But I have a right to express it. Again, I never said it's a bad idea to come to Ukraine to meet a local woman for marriage. I did it myself back in 2005. Ukrainian women are very good looking and all, BUT... I highly doubt I could've found in Ukraine a wife who'd support me financially for over 3 years like my Russian wife does here. Also there's much higher chance a Russian woman will come to your country to meet you for the first time. Generally speaking, I think that Russian women are much more sincere and open. Also I think it's easier to win trust of a woman in Russia.

Unfortunately, you can't just let it lie.  There is absolutely no evidence that a Russian woman would be more likely to fly to a Western country than a Ukrainian woman.  Especially if the man is paying for the trip and assisting with visas.  As for trust and sincerity, it depends on the woman.  I have met both insincere and sincere women in both countries. 

Your great bit of advice is simply an opinion.  If you would back it up by evidence, then it would be a different story.  But, nothing you have given to the board is anything more than you simply sitting at the computer with a bee up your bonnet.

Speaking of advice, I gave you some good advice in my last post.  If you really are trying to sell Russian women instead of pissing off most of the forum members, share with us stories that capture the imagination about these women.  What makes them special?  I, for one, can tell you your little littany about how you were someone's f-buddy and how other women have f-buddies did not raise the stock of Russian women on the forum.  But, meh.  Say what you will.  I have my own opinions of Russian women and they don't come from you, but from years of visiting Russia and direct interaction.

[papakota]

Unfortunately, you can't just let it lie.  There is absolutely no evidence that a Russian woman would be more likely to fly to a Western country than a Ukrainian woman.  Especially if the man is paying for the trip and assisting with visas.  As for trust and sincerity, it depends on the woman.  I have met both insincere and sincere women in both countries. 

Your great bit of advice is simply an opinion.  If you would back it up by evidence, then it would be a different story.  But, nothing you have given to the board is anything more than you simply sitting at the computer with a bee up your bonnet.

Speaking of advice, I gave you some good advice in my last post.  If you really are trying to sell Russian women instead of pissing off most of the forum members, share with us stories that capture the imagination about these women.  What makes them special?  I, for one, can tell you your little littany about how you were someone's f-buddy and how other women have f-buddies did not raise the stock of Russian women on the forum.  But, meh.  Say what you will.  I have my own opinions of Russian women and they don't come from you, but from years of visiting Russia and direct interaction.

I don't pretend that my personal opinion is more than that. So what? Just because I don't have the evidence, doesn't mean it's wrong. My personal experience tells me what I told before. If someone doesn't believe me, so be it.

I've already told something fascinating that my Russian wife supports me though she doesn't have to. I personally know at least two Russian women who flew to my country. Well, one of those two was just an ethnic Russian, but not from Russia. Women in Ukraine or in Belarus didn't want to travel to their neighboring town to meet me even if I'd pay them for tickets and such. I talked to hundreds of women in former USSR, so I have a clue what to expect from them. In Ukraine alone in 2005 I met face to face around 50 women. It's just a matter of statistics. If something happens all the time, there's a reason behind it, even if I can't prove it on fingers. Again I'm generalizing, so of course, it's not a law of math. Like I met one woman in Ukraine who was willing to travel, but it was exception that proved the rule.

I don't have to "advertize" Russian women same as Germans don't have to advertize Mercedes. And there's a good reason why this forum is called russianwomendiscussion and not ukrainianwomendiscussion. 'cos everybody knows about Russian women, not the Ukrainian or Belorussian ones. Even like Turkish men know "Natasha from Russia" and not some "Bohdana from Ukraine". It's a fact of life. Half of the world doesn't even know what "Ukraine" is. Even in a country like Canada, where lots of Ukrainians live, ok. I used to go to libraries and for every 10 books in Russian, there's just one in Ukrainian.

It's not about sex. If a woman from former USSR is willing to sleep with you, there's a good chance that she would also marry you. And if she doesn't want to sleep with you, then she probably will reject you. I've been officially married four times, not simultaneously of course. Twice in the US and twice in Russia. All four of my wives had sex with me right away. Sex is a best indication that she's serious about you. Though it doesn't always work, but usually it does. Unlike men, women usually don't tend to sleep around. In America it's somewhat different, 'cos there lots of women just sleep around. But we're discussing Russian women here.

[jone]

 
Based on your writings, I can imagine it won't be long til you're working on Numéro 5.

[Bounder]

Bounder,
OK, I accept your deep apologies.  I became a temporary resident in Russia in 2013. I became a permanent resident in Russia in 2015 (decision was made in November 2014). I applied for Russian citizenship in May 2016 and got it in November 2016. It takes them up to 6 months to process an application in case you're married to a Russian citizen spouse. Officially I became a Russian citizen on Saturday when I signed an acceptance paper in local Immigration Office. I hope to get a Russian passport this month. The internal one. Frankly, I don't even know WHY do I have to prove anything to any of you, since so far no one here proved anything to me. But it's not a big secret about my status in Russia. I wasn't talking about Russia vs. Ukraine in terms of how easy it is to get papers, I was talking about AN ATTITUDE of immigration officers. You simply misunderstood me also in that regard. As a matter of fact, Russian immigration law is much more liberal and friendly than an immigration law in the Ukraine. A good example is its attitude towards a second citizenship. US vs. Canada is not a topic to discuss here. It's a long story and it's irrelevant here.

jone,
I'm not pushing my opinion on anyone. But I have a right to express it. Again, I never said it's a bad idea to come to Ukraine to meet a local woman for marriage. I did it myself back in 2005. Ukrainian women are very good looking and all, BUT... I highly doubt I could've found in Ukraine a wife who'd support me financially for over 3 years like my Russian wife does here. Also there's much higher chance a Russian woman will come to your country to meet you for the first time. Generally speaking, I think that Russian women are much more sincere and open. Also I think it's easier to win trust of a woman in Russia.

Boethius,
I never wanted to discuss politics here in the first place. You dragged me into it. Speaking of politics, here's another good example that there's no real war between Russia and Ukraine. My favorite singer in Ukraine is Ani Lorak. I think she's the best female singer in Ukraine since 1991. She sang in July in Saint Petersburg at a Russian Navy celebration event.

http://gordonua.com/news/society/ani-lorak-spela-na-koncerte-v-chest-320-letiya-voenno-morskogo-flota-rossii-142367.html

http://www.instagram.com/p/BIQgtu9ghgj/

http://miamusic.ru/report/7793-ani-lorak-pokazala-shou-karolina-na-bis-v-moskve.html

Funny to read comments from Ukrainians. Some say she's great, while others call her a traitor. It only proves my point about current events in Ukraine.

Papakota (sorry, sentences start with capital letters),
At certain points in the past, you wrote that you didn't have Russian citizenship and were seeking to obtain it at some point in the future.  Then recently, you made a reference to being in possession of Russian Citizenship.

You're right, your personal affairs aren't anyone else's affair.  But there was a missing piece of information in the context where you had volunteered information about your citizenship status in Russia.  And this was creating a credibility issue for me once I noticed it.

I am willing to take what you say at face value, and I offer congratulations to you on gaining your Russian citizenship recently.  I hope you will accept my apologies once again for putting your credibility into question, but it is cleared up as far as I'm concerned.  Congratulations!

I understand you had a larger point that was getting at the issues of process for example.  I just wasn't interested in considering it while I was doubting your credibility.  But as I said, it has been cleared up in my view.

[papakota]

Thanks Bounder!
I hope to get my Russian passport this month and then I'll be really happy.

[Gator]

Thanks Bounder!
I hope to get my Russian passport this month and then I'll be really happy.

Why the delay?  Steven Seagal has his citizenship. 

[papakota]

Why the delay?  Steven Seagal has his citizenship.

Steven Seagal got his Russian citizenship from the President. Obviously, everything was prepared well in advance for Steven Seagal. So he wouldn't have to wait for his Russian passport. It's an exception that proves the rule.
Normally, it takes up to a month here, if not longer. Minimum two weeks.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Ukraine whistleblower says he has proof that Poroshenko was using loans to pay off Parliament members.  Sounds like the proof has been handed over to the US.

[Boethius]

It could be true. However the report is from the Kremlin arm of the media, so, who knows?

[JayH]

It could be true. However the report is from the Kremlin arm of the media, so, who knows?

As has been noted many times-anything is possible as the old ways die hard--  and short term pragmatism rules.
To the disgust of many of the "new" era much of that "old guard" thinking and methodology undoubtedly exists.
The problem I see now is that when faced with a lesser of 2 evils anything that Russia promotes is a far greater evil !
The international community is well aware of these issues in Ukraine--hence to carrot of the IMF aid,greater military aid etc being constantly attached to internal reforms and a serious attempt at removing corruption.
I think now that only the next wave of unobligated politicians is capable of tackling the real issues-- ie a new "revolution" -- hopefully a peaceful but clear changing of the guard.
How much of these reports are true? As Mrs B says-'who knows"?


Bags full of bank notes and a plot to bring down a prime minister: Politician makes claims of vast corruption in Ukraine

Pro-Western president Petro Poroshenko’s office strenuously denies the allegations, which have been made by former parliamentarian and oligarch Alexander Onishchenko. Mr Onischenko has fled to London where he now lives in exile having himself been accused of corruption by Ukrainian authNABU claims Mr Onishchenko organised the embezzlement of state funds in a joint programme with the gas company UkrGasVydobuvannia. It claims the scheme led to losses of around £50m to the state. NABU detectives also seized 10 apartments, nine houses, 10 pieces of land, 39 bank accounts, and 11 cars belonging to him and his suspected accomplices.

Mr Onishchenko claims the case is fabricated and politically motivated.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/politician-makes-claims-of-vast-corruption-in-ukraine-a7452961.html

[LiveFromUkraine]

It could be true. However the report is from the Kremlin arm of the media, so, who knows?

Very true. What raised an eyebrow was when they referred to him giving the US his evidence.   I do wonder if this evidence could be authenticated by the US.  That is if he did indeed pass on his evidence as suggested.  I doubt they are writing checks with memos of "from IMF loans" on it.   

[papakota]

anything that Russia promotes is a far greater evil !

It's not Russia promotes, but Putin promotes. I'm Russia as much as Putin is Russia. My Russian citizenship has no less value than his. Don't put Putin and late Nemtsov into one basket. Russia does what Putin wants. It's not like Putin does what Russia wants.

[calmissile]

It could be true. However the report is from the Kremlin arm of the media, so, who knows?

I have been curious about how the purge of corruption in Ukraine has been going the past year, but have not heard much.

I am also suspect about the report.  The oligarch/whistleblower has been charged with corruption and had his bank accounts and assets confiscated, so no doubt has an ax to grind.     

This does not seem to pass the 'smell test' either.  Poroshenko gave up a lot to become president in his own estate.  It would seem to me that his interests would be best suited to cleaning up corruption in the government rather than trying to feather his own nest.

What has happened in the past year to clean up the corruption and 'drain the swamp' in Ukraine?

[Boethius]

From everything I have read, and from the better half's observations in two trips this year, it is still incredibly corrupt.

[Darth_Budda]

The Ukrainian Donald Trump,,,

Is to busy making money... To fix any real problems..
But they are renaming things.. Like cities and roads...

[BillyB]

What has happened in the past year to clean up the corruption and 'drain the swamp' in Ukraine?

Many of the people I talked too said the new, western trained, cops are not corrupt like the old cops. Changes are made at the lower levels but I don't see how government is going to get better when the same crooks are running the show. The people should have ran them out of town too like they did the ex president.

[JayH]

It's not Russia promotes, but Putin promotes. I'm Russia as much as Putin is Russia. My Russian citizenship has no less value than his. Don't put Putin and late Nemtsov into one basket. Russia does what Putin wants. It's not like Putin does what Russia wants.

When the citizens of Russia have the guts to stand up to Putin and Kremlin  bs-- as  Ukrainians have done at Maidan & since -- until that happens ALL Russians will be included in the responsibilty of Russia's actions--like it or not.

It is the large majority of ordinary citizens that will suffer in due course.

[ML]

When the citizens of Russia have the guts to stand up to Putin and Kremlin  bs-- as  Ukrainians have done at Maidan & since -- until that happens ALL Russians will be included in the responsibilty of Russia's actions--like it or not.

It is the large majority of ordinary citizens that will suffer in due course.

Agree.