The Blue nation would logically (based on most recent voting patterns) be comprised of California, Oregon and Washington, and most of the states along the upper East Coast.
Hopefully we regain our senses.
There are two major questions:
Were it ever to come to that, my state, California, would form The California Republic and invite the states of Washington, Oregon and possibly Arizona and Nevada to join.
More and more Californians are leaving the state. Preferential destinations: Colorado, Arizona. Colorado has swung five points to the blue since this exodus began. Real estate prices in Denver have exploded.
Believe it or not, the South tried to secede a second time. The KKK, the Red Shirts, the White League, all were created in an effort to prevent African Americans from voting. The end to reconstruction did not mean an end to these organizations. Many of the members felt that the only way for them to succeed was to secede. Again. These efforts did not abate until after the Great Migration and the onset of the second world war.
Why would the "four" want California? Given the situation, would California not be the one begging?
Given its many citizens and residents of Mexican lineage, California decides instead to become part of Mexico. And all those California white folks migrate to the four just like the Hindi millions and millions leaving Pakistan in 1947.
But California isn't exactly like New Zealand where it loses a nice portion of its population to everywhere else every year.
Hmm,
1979 NZ population .4 million
2018 NZ population 1.9 million
Source: World Bank
Over the past 20 years, California has experienced its slowest rates of growth ever recorded, and growth has been especially slow since 2017. According to estimates by the California Department of Finance, California’s population grew by 7.3% (or 2.7 million) from 2010 to the end of 2019; this rate is only slightly higher than the national rate of 6.3%. International migration to California has remained strong, with a net inflow of 1.5 million. But net domestic migration has been negative: about 900,000 more people left California for other states than came to California from other states. Natural increase—the difference between births and deaths—added 2.2 million residents. But birth rates are at record lows and the number of deaths is increasing as the population ages.
Anybody thinks they are going to secede without a fight has another thing coming.
Billy, there need not be a war. As I quoted from Wiki:
"However, the Court's decision recognized some possibility of the divisibility 'through revolution, or through consent of the States' "
Each day, I get more and more sick thinking about what is happening to our country, and I see no real hope for the future.Although things seem to be going straight down the old crapper I see hope. Much of the extreme partisanship on the red side is from people 50+ years old. Nature will take care of a lot of that in the next 20 years or less. I believe the next generations are not stuck in how things were from an era that is often romanticized
I see large numbers leaving as long as California home values are so much greater than elsewhere. I suspect the prospect of suddenly having a million dollars in a bank account is a big incentive for many.
There was an exodus in the 80s and early 90s, mostly headed to Arizona when many of the defense aeronautic companies relocated. Then the decade of 90s and Y2k saw (Seattle) Washington / Texas began receiving a lot of these Californians. The influx to Nevada was always mild but constant.
We are a very long way from having another Civil War but I have to admit, I've never seen Democrats this mad since Lincoln freed their slaves.
We are a very long way from having another Civil War but I have to admit, I've never seen Democrats this mad since Lincoln freed their slaves.
Billy, there need not be a war. As I quoted from Wiki:
"However, the Court's decision recognized some possibility of the divisibility 'through revolution, or through consent of the States' "
Southern Democrats, who supported slavery, many who later joined the Southern Republican party due to conservative views and opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965.
I see large numbers leaving as long as California home values are so much greater than elsewhere. I suspect the prospect of suddenly having a million dollars in a bank account is a big incentive for many.
Fathertime!
I fear it may be much closer than you think
Southern Democrats, who supported slavery, many who later joined the Southern Republican party due to conservative views and opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965.
You don't get to claim that racist Democrat voters from 1964 make up any
meaningful number of Republican members today, the past or in recent years.
Was that my assertion? Or was I simply correcting nomenclature?
In a way though, your reply counters BillyB's assertion so quite ok.
Southern Democrats, who supported slavery, many who later joined the Southern Republican party due to conservative views and opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965.
BC, I don't want to misunderstand your intent or to get it wrong. Let me know
what you meant.
I've never seen Democrats this mad since Lincoln freed their slaves.
We can of course just say that most white folks in the south were in favor of slavery back then, no matter how they were politically labeled.
We are a very long way from having another Civil War but I have to admit, I've never seen Democrats this mad since Lincoln freed their slaves.
We can of course just say that most white folks in the south were in favor of slavery back then, no matter how they were politically labeled.
Yup. There were parts of the South, I'm thinking North Carolina, where slaves were not allowed. These counties actually voted not to secede or did so reluctantly. Now, that doesn't put them on the side of the angels, but it does show that the South was far from unified behind slavery. Instead they were unified behind the banner of State's Rights.
Yup. There were parts of the South, I'm thinking North Carolina, where slaves were not allowed. These counties actually voted not to secede or did so reluctantly. Now, that doesn't put them on the side of the angels, but it does show that the South was far from unified behind slavery. Instead they were unified behind the banner of State's Rights.
Yup. There were parts of the South, I'm thinking North Carolina, where slaves were not allowed. These counties actually voted not to secede or did so reluctantly. Now, that doesn't put them on the side of the angels, but it does show that the South was far from unified behind slavery. Instead they were unified behind the banner of State's Rights.
We are a very long way from having another Civil War but I have to admit, I've never seen Democrats this mad since Lincoln freed their slaves.
Maybe you could clarify the point you were trying to get across with your original post below:
Lets be careful how we label people. The past is malleable to many.
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Thanks for your list of conservative talking points Billy. A bit outdated, but guess 'it is what it is'. Which post were you responding to?
2tall,
We can of course just say that most white folks in the south were in favor of slavery back then, no matter how they were politically labeled.
Would Red come to the defense of Blue when Mexico invades California to regain lands stolen from it in the 19th C.It is my understanding that Mexico merely stole it from Spain.
Were it ever to come to that, my state, California, would form The California Republic and invite the states of Washington, Oregon and possibly Arizona and Nevada to join. More and more Californians are leaving the state. Preferential destinations: Colorado, Arizona. Colorado has swung five points to the blue since this exodus began.Was it not the blue idealism that they were leaving?
Although things seem to be going straight down the old crapper I see hope. Much of the extreme partisanship on the red side is from people 50+ years old. Nature will take care of a lot of that in the next 20 years or less.Nicely put there. Nature huh? Maybe a new virus? No more red huh? Adios old phu#ks!
Video below is as close to a Civil War we'll see now...I thought the guy at the first fight would El Kabong yon opponent with his guitar.
. . . property taxes, . . . a lot cheaper here than Florida or Texas.
| South 6.9% Northeast 10.9% Midwest 8.0% West 9.5% |
Yeah What about my social security!
What about fathertime's and everybody else's Social Security? :cluebat:
Have to remember Gator that much of the middle class i.e. my parents, was built with unions and pension plans, not at-will employment.
The video in reply 35 was removed [stating violation of TOS]
There may come a civil uprising esp if the country becomes a one party nation.
I don't understand the connection. Pensions gave the middle class their financial security, yet hard work paid the bills and put food on the table.
I used government pensions as an example, and before the pandemic, just the state government pensions were underfunded by over $1 trillion. Municipalities are worse I understand. Should a COVID relief aid bill bail them out?
And pension plans are only part of the financial problem of local and state governments.
So now Yahoo News is also a part of the grand conspiracy against trump.
Yahoo News was a favorite news source of mine. On their front page they post news from right and left leaning sources and people were allowed to comment after the article. Some of the wonderful links I posted here was because other people on Yahoo found them. A month ago they stopped letting people post comments to the articles. They say they want to keep Yahoo a safe place. What was going on was more commenters than ever were on the right denouncing lies and revealing the real truth. Sometimes there be 10-1 people on the right over people on the left calling out fake news and posting links to the truth such as backgrounds of shooters the liberal media claimed were white nationalists. I read Yahoo for years and seen a movement grow right before my eyes. I think Trump will do fine in this election no matter what fake news and their fake polls say.
The video in reply 35 was removed [stating violation of TOS]when one party (Republican) becomes such a divisive force they deserve to be abandoned by many. I don't think many will care if some republicans want to rebel in their wheelchairs, walkers, and depends.
There may come a civil uprising esp if the country becomes a one party nation.
Of course, states will have to find ways to live up to their obligations. Covid has put additional stress, high costs, and reduced revenue on their already stressed finances, but don't think bankruptcy is an option so what do you suggest? I agree it does not bode well, something will break if nothing is done.
States can not print money, so the solution is combination of:
1) state/municipal governments cutting budgets (i. e., fixing the source of the problem),
2) state/municipal governments borrowing at current low interest rates,
3) state/municipal governments increasing taxes, and
4) Congress appropriating trillions of aid.
As evidenced by the stimulus bill negotiations, the Democrats are leaning on No. 4 to help with increased revenue from no. 3. The only spending cuts I (No. 1) I see are in police.
The correct way to solve state and municipal problems that the lefty's created are to actually fix them
structurally.
1. Stop crime and restore the rule of law
2. Create a business positive atmosphere
3. Keep spending under control
4. Don't borrow any additional money for anything
Do those 4 things and the State and local situations will fix themselves.
Government doesn't solve problems, businesses and people do.