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Author Topic: The Russian/Syrian connection thread  (Read 253491 times)

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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #750 on: April 24, 2016, 08:30:27 PM »
HEY,  FATHER TIME

IS THERE ANY ACTIONS THAT YOUR NATION HAS TAKEN IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAT YOU DO APPROVE OF?


Of course there are, but those aren't what this particular discussion is about....Are you interested in derailing the topic, rather than discussing it, because you don't approve of a valid opinion on the subject?


Well thanks for asking!


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Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #751 on: April 24, 2016, 09:05:29 PM »
I seriously doubt that other powerful nations like Russia would have merely stood by, and allowed us to run roughshod over Assad like that.


Russia did stand by for years and didn't give Assad meaningful help. After Putin learned nobody had the guts to confront him in Ukraine and Obama didn't keep his word by intervening with ground troops after Assad crossed a red line using chemical weapons on his people, Putin knew Syria would be under his influence if he bailed out Assad.

Any world leader wanting to expand their borders knows they will meet little resistance from Obama. If not America, who enforces international law? What good are laws without enforcement? I recently read China is expanding on more islands. Soon they will have military bases on those islands and be able to make it difficult for us to rescue Taiwan should China invade in the future.

For this world to have peace, there must be stability and there isn't stability if the thugs are allowed to do as they wish. Conflict will never end but if we don't take the fight to them, sooner or later, they'll bring it to us. If someone had the guts to get in their face, they may see Crimea and islands in the South China sea are not worth risking their existence over.
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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #752 on: April 24, 2016, 09:25:48 PM »
Russia did stand by for years and didn't give Assad meaningful help. After Putin learned nobody had the guts to confront him in Ukraine and Obama didn't keep his word by intervening with ground troops after Assad crossed a red line using chemical weapons on his people, Putin knew Syria would be under his influence if he bailed out Assad.




Russia probably did not feel the need to step in with major help.  Eventually the battle became too dicey,  with the US supporting the 'rebels', so at certain point they jumped in.  Maybe they just wanted to bleed us a bit before they had to bleed also.    I think Russia intended on getting involved all along if it became necessary, it was only a matter of if was to become necessary, and that came to pass.   




. If someone had the guts to get in their face, they may see Crimea and islands in the South China sea are not worth risking their existence over.


Keep in mind thinking we are going to run roughshod over far lands and seas also creates risk for own existence as well....nations like China have enough capacity to do great harm to us in more than one way, and they probably feel what they are doing is within their rights...Since we have lived by "Might means Right", other powerful nations are also using that tactic I guess. 


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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #753 on: April 28, 2016, 01:44:00 AM »
Quote
Russia did stand by for years and didn't give Assad meaningful help. After Putin learned nobody had the guts to confront him in Ukraine and Obama didn't keep his word by intervening with ground troops after Assad crossed a red line using chemical weapons on his people, Putin knew Syria would be under his influence if he bailed out Assad.

I was a member of the press pool covering Mr. Putin into 2013, having transitioned from covering President Medvedev prior to 2012, and we were in Vladivostok in late August when an outdoor press briefing turned from the recent flooding and the government's weather crisis response, infrastructure investment in the Far East, to issues with China along disputed sections of border, and to the upcoming G20 which Mr. Putin would host in St Petersburg. The discussion turned from those issues to pressing concerns in Egypt, Libya and Syria.

I and a couple of others posed questions as to who might have used chemical weapons in Syria. Personally I remain unconvinced that Assad was responsible, and wanted at the time to gauge how he would treat the subject at the G20 Summit. Mr. Putin can talk, and anyone who has seen his marathon sessions with the public knows that he can go on for hours, all the while being very direct in his responses. He almost snapped the answer; indicating that the Americans were still partners, he explained why the idea of Assad using those weapons on the very day that UN inspectors arrived as being ridiculous. He summed up his answer with four short words--"You know our position."

A follow up question was asked if the Obama administration would take military action, and about what Russia would do if the USA attacked Assad. Rather than answer, because at that time Russia did not have the capability to stand toe-to-toe with the US military, he said that "How do I know? You will have to ask them. "

We traveled back home to Moscow, and then four days later were in full swing at the G20 opening in Piter. Just the day before, presidential staffers had ironed out an agreement for Putin and Obama to shake hands. There would be no face to face meetings, only a brief handshake upon Obama's arrival. The Kremlin had been offended by Obama's remarks just days before that characterized Putin as a slouching and pouting school boy.



Putin is very good at reading others--a skill learned from his KGB training and experience, and over the course of the Summit he saw that he could own Obama with not much pushback.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 08:16:51 AM by mendeleyev »
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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #754 on: April 28, 2016, 06:44:32 AM »


I and a couple of others posed questions as to who might of used chemical weapons in Syria. Personally I remain unconvinced that Assad was responsible, and wanted at the time to gauge how he would treat the subject at the G20 Summit. 



It has been an interesting thing to see how easily convinced much of the American public was that Assad suddenly used the chemical weapons, just hours before the UN inspectors came!  What an amazing coincidence!


Completely NOT believable. 


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Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #755 on: April 29, 2016, 05:49:17 PM »
I and a couple of others posed questions as to who might have used chemical weapons in Syria. Personally I remain unconvinced that Assad was responsible, and wanted at the time to gauge how he would treat the subject at the G20 Summit.


There were dozens of incidences of chemical attacks in Syria. The UN identified some of the chemicals used came from the Syrian Army's stockpile. Could it be stolen? It's hard to say who used chemical weapons delivered from mortars and rockets since both the rebels and Syrian army owns rockets and mortars but it's clear the barrel bombs containing chemical weapons were dropped by the Syrian military's helicopters. Only Syria uses helicopters in the war and own the skies.

In other news Russia is building up in Syria. Putin pulls another fast one on Obama.

http://www.newsweek.com/putin-lying-about-withdrawing-forces-syria-453471
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Offline AkMike

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #756 on: April 29, 2016, 06:13:26 PM »

Russian aircraft bombed hospital in Aleppo

At least 30 people were killed and 62 wounded on April 27th after a Russian military plane fired at a field hospital in the Syrian province of Aleppo. Anadolu reported that the incident was announced by Ibrahim Hadzh Ibrahim, the city’s civil defense representative.

http://uawire.org/news/turkish-media-russian-aircraft-bombed-hospital-in-aleppo

It's a crying shame when they can't hit their targets,, UNLESS this was their target! Killing civilians is usually frowned on by the west yet it's frequently done by Russia it seems. I've tried to stay away from this Russian invasion of Syria as much as possible but it has parallels with the invasion of Ukraine. The next step will be shooting down airliners filled with civilians I'd guess.

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #757 on: April 30, 2016, 12:21:08 AM »
At least 30 people were killed and 62 wounded on April 27th after a Russian military plane fired at a field hospital in the Syrian province of Aleppo. Anadolu reported that the incident was announced by Ibrahim Hadzh Ibrahim, the city’s civil defense representative.

They can't even get their facts right.  It WASN'T a field hospital - it was a real one.  And Aleppo is NOT a province - it is the largest city in Syria, with a population of more than 2 million people.  Amongst those killed were the last remaining paediatrician in the city, as well as several children.

Try this version for a more comprehensive story.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11631229

Offline TigerPaws

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #758 on: May 01, 2016, 10:01:15 AM »
And the U.S. is innocent of the same things?

U.S. Military Investigates And Finds Itself Not Guilty Of War Crimes In Afghan Hospital Bombing The Pentagon says it didn’t intend to kill 42 people.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-not-guilty-war-crimes-kunduz-hospital_us_57236ddfe4b0b49df6ab0ada

I will be the first to admit that this kind of thing happens in any conflict the Fog of War is very real. I can also tell you from personal experience that when innocents are in the way of killing a designated bad guy they are not important. I personally Lased a large home and we knew there was at least 25 women, children, the aged and infirm inside but there was one man the Pentagon wanted dead at any cost.

So everyone in that building was killed by a 2,000lb Laser guided bomb.   



 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 10:08:48 AM by TigerPaws »

Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #759 on: July 14, 2016, 07:38:35 PM »

US offers Russia partnership in Syria. In other words, America gives Russia what they want. The photo in the link below is a great propaganda tool. I'm sure the Russian media will make good use of it.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/leaked-proposal-us-offering-russia-military-pact-syria-075608701.html
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Offline deccie

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #760 on: September 11, 2016, 12:43:28 AM »

I will be the first to admit that this kind of thing happens in any conflict the Fog of War is very real. I can also tell you from personal experience that when innocents are in the way of killing a designated bad guy they are not important. I personally Lased a large home and we knew there was at least 25 women, children, the aged and infirm inside but there was one man the Pentagon wanted dead at any cost.

So everyone in that building was killed by a 2,000lb Laser guided bomb.

That is not "fog of war". That is "we don't give a fuck" about collateral damages to get this target.
Do you think about those civilians you killed at all TigerPaws?

Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #761 on: September 11, 2016, 08:45:52 AM »
That is not "fog of war". That is "we don't give a fuck" about collateral damages to get this target.
Do you think about those civilians you killed at all TigerPaws?

I'm not going to get on TigerPaws for being told to laser a house with civilians in it. Who was his target? Bill Clinton had a chance to take out Osama Bin Laden after he had ties to the World Trade Center in 93. Bin Laden was surrounded by a dozen civilians at the time so he didn't give the order to strike. Since then Bin Laden been responsible for many deaths and terrorist acts including the USS Cole bombing and 9/11. Civilians are going to die in war, that is a given. Our President has the power to determine who's civilians are going to die.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline deccie

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #762 on: September 12, 2016, 09:22:05 AM »
I'm not going to get on TigerPaws for being told to laser a house with civilians in it. Who was his target?

I was not having a go at him. It was actually intended as a serious question.

Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #763 on: September 12, 2016, 05:04:32 PM »
I was not having a go at him. It was actually intended as a serious question.

Deccie,

A couple of members have accused TP of exaggeration, and have produced information to support their claim.  I do not know, and I have stayed out of it.  Others can give you their opinion. 

Offline deccie

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #764 on: September 12, 2016, 10:30:00 PM »
Deccie,

A couple of members have accused TP of exaggeration, and have produced information to support their claim.  I do not know, and I have stayed out of it.  Others can give you their opinion.

Thanks Gator.
I've not been on the forum much as my wife gave birth to our latest about a week ago. Two young kids and a teenager keep one very busy indeed.... No further additions are planned now. But now we need a bigger apartment! :-)

Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #765 on: September 13, 2016, 05:55:31 AM »
Thanks Gator.
I've not been on the forum much as my wife gave birth to our latest about a week ago. Two young kids and a teenager keep one very busy indeed.... No further additions are planned now. But now we need a bigger apartment! :-)

Children are a great blessing.  Family has always been my greatest source of joy. 

Offline deccie

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #766 on: September 13, 2016, 08:28:35 AM »
Children are a great blessing.  Family has always been my greatest source of joy.

They are indeed - though young ones are far easier than teenagers. At least for me anyway.
Our first child together is now 1 yr 8 months old and she brings a lot of joy to all around her.
Grandma just beams around her and is really enjoying the time she spends with her.
She is just such an amazingly HAPPY baby. Of course she has her tantrums like any other child but 90% of the time she is just happy, smiling and bubbly. She is also very bright and it is very interesting to watch her problem solve from such an early age. Certainly she is doing stuff far earlier than I expected.

What I love about children of this age is they have yet to learn to hide their emotions or lie. They very CLEARLY tell you what they want or don't like.

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #767 on: September 17, 2016, 05:47:57 PM »

Syria, Russia: Coalition airstrike kills regime forces


What are we doing bombing in Syria?  Apparently we killed between 62-82 Syrian solders today.  This isn't our country and we just mistakenly killed all these soldiers and angered Syria/Russia.  Perhaps our leadership doesn't actually want the fragile truce to continue.  Had this been US forces that were 'accidentally' struck...it would be labeled terrorism and retaliation would be brutal.


As a delicate ceasefire appeared to be holding, the Syrian military said an airstrike Saturday by the US-led coalition hit a regime military position in eastern Syria.

The US military said the coalition thought it was hitting ISIS militants, but hours later said the airstrike may have struck Syrian soldiers.
A senior administration official told CNN late Saturday the US relayed its regret through Russia....

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/17/middleeast/syria-claims-coalition-airstrike-hit-regime-forces/index.html
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #768 on: September 17, 2016, 07:13:19 PM »

Lavrov told Kerry to take action against America's violations of the cease fire. I'm sure Obama will compensate the victims families well.
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Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #769 on: September 20, 2016, 04:51:02 PM »

All parties knew the location of clearly marked UN food trucks and Arab Red Crescent yet a Russian made jet bombed the convoy. Don't know if the jet belongs to Syria or Russia but it's apparent, the goal was to starve and kill more civilians that don't like Assad. I hope Obama and Kerry quit announcing cease fires as if they accomplished something. They had their chance to end the war and crush ISIS before Russia got involved. The latest ceasefire probably won't last since it's a requirement that every move made must be disclosed to all parties and disclosure can be deadly.

http://www.businessinsider.com/un-aid-trucks-airstrike-syria-us-russia-relations-2016-9
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Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #770 on: September 20, 2016, 08:39:41 PM »

Good news! Russia says they're innocent and it was a cargo fire that caused the damage. I don't know how 18 trucks caught on fire when they weren't close to each other and how fire can rip apart the flesh of 20 people but we can trust Russia.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/syria-cease-fire-falters-amid-054519039.html

http://www.yahoo.com/news/moscow-denies-russian-syrian-planes-bombed-aid-convoy-001839642.html
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Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #771 on: September 29, 2016, 09:27:19 PM »
CURRENT STATUS

There are two fronts in Syria:  1) ISIS and 2) the civil war involving scattered pockets of rebel forces fighting Assad in places such as Aleppo.  Assad is supported by Russian bombing missions and by Iranian forces.   




The US is supporting a loose alliance of Kurds and other forces to contain and eventually overrun ISIS.   This campaign continues to progress, and I believe ISIS will be pushed out of Iraq in a matter of months dependent upon the performance of the Iraqi forces.  What happens after that depends upon a number of factors including the Russians.

In regard to the civil war, it seems the US is doing little  to support the rebels.    Russia has stepped up its bombardments to support advances by Assad's troops and Iranian forces.   The US negotiated a ceasefire with Russia to allow humanitarian aid to Aleppo and other besieged rebel holdings.  The ceasefire lasted a week, and ended with various shellings and in particular the bombing by Russian jets of an aid convoy headed to Aleppo.   

The US has threatened to stop talks with Russia about ending the civil war  if the onslaught against Aleppo is not stopped with a one-week ceasefire..  This is an idle threat if the US does not give more lethal weapons to the rebels.  Obama has previously refused to give the rebels anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles.     Alternatively, the US could create a no fly zone, yet that would have a high possibility of air battles between Russian and US jets.  Without support, the rebels will collapse eventually,  and another 100,000 could die and millions more Syrians displaced as refugees

I wonder what the two candidates propose to do in the Syrian civil war.  It seems Obama has no interest in supporting the rebels militarily. 

Offline jone

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #772 on: September 29, 2016, 10:41:32 PM »
I don't know that its our war.  Without some level of commitment by the United States to give lethal aide and support, Syria should be left to Assad so the killing can stop.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #773 on: September 30, 2016, 06:15:45 PM »
I don't know that its our war.  Without some level of commitment by the United States to give lethal aide and support, Syria should be left to Assad so the killing can stop.

That seems to be Obama's plan.   While you say Syria should be left to Assad, this will not stop the killing.  The rebels will eventually lose but will not surrender considering the revenge Assad may seek.  A hundred thousand more Syrians could die, and millions of more refugees uprooted for Europe to accept.

This outcome is very serious and is not attracting much attention during the election.  If America backs down and allows its rebel allies to be taken down by a combined Assad-Iran-Russia alliance, America's standing in the Middle East (and the World) will plummet. We will be viewed as a nation who will not stand up to Russia and does not honor our commitments.   We perhaps even encouraged the civil war as part of our effort to stir up the Arab Spring.

What to do?  The White House has claimed since February it  has two plans:

         Plan A - Work with the Russians for a peaceful regime change and an end to the war.

         Plan B - Undefined, mysterious; to be implemented only if Plan A failed.

The White House has believed for years that the Russians were sincere about a peaceful regime change.  That is why Obama did not bomb Syria after it crossed the chemical weapons redline.  Two weeks ago, a ceasefire was eventually negotiated in good faith as part of Plan A.  This gave Obama hope.  However, Russia last week bombed a humanitarian relief convoy. The ceasefire ended, and Russia has shown no interest in a long, new ceasefire.  Clearly Russia wants to take out Aleppo and other rebel strongholds and to keep its friend Assad in power.  In other words,  Plan A is dead. 

Yesterday Senator Corker's Foreign Relations Committee summoned the Deputy Secretary of State Blinken to appear and explain Plan B.  In a comical sequence of double talk, Corker says at the end of this clip, "Let me say what we already know, there is no Plan B." 

   

Corker is one of the best senators on the Hill, a real statesman. 

To be candid I agree with Obama's  complete withdrawal only because he has already made a partial withdrawal.  However, before we retreat totally, I believe we should take a strong stand to show we have some muscle.  We should set up a no fly zone to allow humanitarian relief.   We can control it without flying air cover and instead use antiaircraft missiles such as the Russian BUK from Navy ships in the Med.  The same ships can use cruise missiles to take out the Syrian Air Force bases if they cross the no fly zone.   We have an ample supply of both missiles.  That to me is Plan B. 

This Plan B could be presented to Putin and told in Donald Trump's terms that we will implement it unless Putin gets Plan A working again.  Would Putin stand down and allow humanitarian relief under Plan A, or would he believe Obama would never fire a shot at Russian aircraft?  I say Putin would call his bluff and Obama would back down.  Putin would become even more emboldened.   

Obama knows Putin will call his bluff, so he will not even threaten Plan B in public (i. e., no more red lines).  Plan C - Obama may try to convince the rebels to surrender and to have the UN move in as a peacekeeper  to prevent Assad's reprisals.   

Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #774 on: September 30, 2016, 11:14:03 PM »
In regard to the civil war, it seems the US is doing little  to support the rebels. 


Obama said "Assad has got to go" and half heartedly supported the rebels. Russia and Iran sees America's weakness so they go all in. Obama is abandoning the rebels he once encouraged to risk their lives to get Assad. Russia continues to slaughter them and uses ceasefires to get them to pause and become sitting ducks. Who in this world wants to fight for freedom and have America support your cause?
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

 

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