Four little words.

[jb]

In an effort to help the newbies out a little with the selection and elimination process, and even some of the more experienced fellows who are dating and still in the searching for a mate might find a tidbit to mull over in this.  I offer these thoughts for your consideration.

We all know that many of the RWs advertised in the MOB profile catalogs are stunners, knockouts, movie star beautiful women. And there's about a zillion of them to choose from.  We also know of the male's propensity to think with the little head rather than the big one when he's in the presence of such women. I suggest that when you finally meet some of these cuties you try to think about these four things that can make or break a marriage.  I believe these items must be discussed and agreed upon before you pop the question to any woman, regardless of how beautiful she may be.

1.) Religion…. You must be in absolute harmony with this.   If you are a religious man, you should not consider marriage to an atheist, or even a woman who is agnostic about religious beliefs.  Sooner, rather than later, you will be at loggerheads with you living on a self imposed guilt trip of your own making.  This can also be taken to heart if you are perhaps a member of a conservative protestant sect and she is a practicing Orthodox Catholic.  The same holds true if you are ambivalent about Church and she is a strong believer. There's just way too much room for conflict if you don't share the same belief system.  You might marry and be reasonable happy for awhile, right up to that moment when infatuation wears off and you need commonality to find real love.

2.) Children…. This topic shouldn't require much of an explanation, however you must make your feelings clear to each other about the "yours, mine' and our's"   part of how big the family is going to ultimately be.  Are you a guy with kids that you expect to be mothered by the new wife?  Does she have a kid or two that you expect to merge with your own?  Do you agree on the possibility of having common children?  Are you a guy with zero parenting experience, don't want to know, and she's wanting kids?  Believe me, this is huge.

3.) In-laws…. This may be something you haven't thought much about, but if you marry a woman from the FSU, it's better than 50-/-50 odds you will be expected to help out your RWs family after you marry.  This will be especially true if your bride's mom and dad are over retirement years.  Pensions in Russia, for example, are about $35-$40 per month per person, this is a starvation level stipend and the girl's family is probably getting by with the help of the salary she brings home.  When she marries and leaves home, they will become destitute without some source of extra income.   Are you prepared to share some, perhaps even a goodly portion, of your earnings with her family every month?

4.) Last, but certainly not least is: money.  A spendthrift cannot have a successful marriage with a tightwad, and the reverse is also true.  While I have no stats to back it up, personal experience tells me 90% (or more) of the arguments I ever had with the ex, which finally led to drastic action, was over money.  If you are a good money manager and understand the concept of a budget, and she doesn't have a clue, if she thinks money grows on trees, or worse, thinks the solution to her money problems is for you to work harder, this will be a marriage made in hell.

These things are, IMHO, key issues, and you must find a woman who totally agrees with your viewpoint on all four points.  Two out of three, or three out of four won't cut it, it's gotta be 100% agreement if you expect the marriage to last beyond 720 days.

I don't know how you can get the hard questions answered in a week or 10 days, especially if you have to do everything through a third person translating your thoughts for you.  One week wonders are either the quickest study on earth, or simply the luckiest.  I don't know which.

[Bruno]

Good post JB... your have right on all...

For myself, we have speak about all and agree... but we have some problem with the first, Religion... not with Galina but with her father... the main goal of my second trip in May is for convince his father... they wish a marriage in Ukraine but the orthodox church don't allow a marriage mixte ( i am catholic on document )... i go try to propose a civil marriage in Ukraine, and the religious one, in Belgium... the orthodox church in Belgium accept marriage mixte...

When the father don't accept, start a new search... Galina will not marry without the agrement of his father !!!

 

[RacerX]

jb,

...having been married to the ex-RW for 6 years and knowing my fiancee for two, I can honestly that almost none (with one exception) of these elements were that significant in either relationship.

for example, I would disagree with the basic premise of even using a MOB catalog to find your future wife - the better more traditional girls won't be on those big databases... if you are truly serious in finding 'mrs right' there are many smaller, well managed agencies that personally know each of the girls and will guide you through the process.

1.  religion - my experience has been that few RW are really that serious about religion probably due to decades of communist rule - if you are hung up over it, well, why are you even here?  Join your church group and find a nice domestic wife.

2. children - if she doesn't already have one, and is still fairy young she will want a family, a no brainier. OK, this is one is huge if you/she have children, but manageable you both have a similar views.

3.  in-laws, the perpetual problem!  Hers may not need money, if they do the amounts will usually be modest.

4.   ahh money, don't even think about a RW unless you have abundant quantities, but I think the points presented here are more universal and less directed to the cultural differences you will encounter with RW (a whole new thread!).

I kinda prefer the 'three P's' when contemplating a life-long relationship: personality, problem solving  and pleasure (this one needs little explanation!).  If you and she approach life with the same outlook, the expectations with regard to any of these issues raised above will naturally flow within the relationship and will require little delineation - especially at the beginning.

[jb]

Racer,,,

...having been married to the ex-RW for 6 years and knowing my fiancee for two, I can honestly that almost none (with one exception) of these elements were that significant in either relationship.

I'm wondering if you had been in total agreement with all four of those elements I posted about, would your ex-RW be an ex?

religion... *snip*... if you are hung up over it, well, why are you even here? Join your church group and find a nice domestic wife.

Exactly right, but having spent several years browsing other boards, sooner or later we are going to see posts from some ultra-conservative religious guys wanting to know how to do this.  I thought I'd kill that bird with the first shot.

3. in-laws, the perpetual problem! Hers may not need money, if they do the amounts will usually be modest.

They will eventually need money, count on it.  The point I was making was more in line with coming to an understanding ahead of time so that when this snake rears it's head a man would be prepared for it.  Even if the amount is modest, there are/is the typical American mentality that sez; "My mom and dad took care of their own retirement needs, why did't yours?"  There also lots of just plain selfish people in this world.

I kinda prefer the 'three P's' when contemplating a life-long relationship: personality, problem solving and pleasure...*snip*...especially at the beginning.

Hummmm, it might work in the short term, especially the "pleasure" part, but this seems a tad shallow and superficial to me.   I remember a quote from somewhere that said: "No matter how beautiful she is, there is a man, somewhere, who is fed up with her BS".  If you are in the habit of trading up for a newer model every few years, none of this is important to you in the first place.

[Turboguy]

I think there are some good things coming out in this post and some very wise comments.

As far as pleasure,  that can mean a lot of different things.   I think if you are talking physical pleasure as in sex, that is important to a degree.   I think if you are talking pleasure in terms of two people really enjoying being togther and doing things together then that is much more important.     The only thing my ex and I had in common was the first type.   I had 18 years of misery, but we did have a great sex life.  I would have traded that for poor sex and someone I enjoyed being with. 

I think everyone is different and every situation is different but I have to agree that a lot of the things covered here are more important that what her figure is like or if she has bedroom eyes.

[Vaughn]

GREAT post, jb. I was one of the lucky ones - a few of these topics went untouched, and fortunately, all worked out OK.

Does she have a kid or two that you expect to merge with your own?

This facet warrants a thread of its own. Mixing children is a formidable challenge even without blending in an intercultural transition, ESL, and perhaps homesickness.
I'll attempt to begin a thread this evening unless someone else with similar experience beats me to it....

If you are a good money manager and understand the concept of a budget, and she doesn't have a clue...

Money, or shortage of it, was the root of all trouble in my first marriage - neither of us were skilled money managers, and we abused credit based on forecasting the rosiest of futures, which seldom occurred. Here's the "clueless" part my Russian fiance owned and really believed: That most Americans lived out life like the cast on "Friends" - sitting around the coffee house, making small jokes, and never really reporting to work. When something breaks, we call in a professional. In one e-mail I mentioned I had to change the oil in my car, and she was stunned. "You CAN DO that"? She also was relieved when she found out that I did not eat lunch everyday in some cafe. Mind you, eating in restaurants and cafes, in itself, might be normal behavior for some men here, but for my future wife, dining out was a major event, akin to a debutante's prom night, and as it turned out, she was glad to know I was able to pack my own lunch without bellyaching. Money, or the shortage of it, came into our discussions - I explained to her what I earned and how far that sum goes in America, ie expenses usually rise to meet income. When I hear some Russian gal say to her beloved, "You make how much? $3000 per month?" She begins to calculate, hmmmm - that's 6,000 in 2 months, 9,000 in 3, why holy borscht! In a year, we'll be RICH!! Guys, you gotta clarify finances with her, give her the true picture, and don't wait until the week before the interview. (Hey, it just could be an interview question, so no secrets!)

Vaughn

[Bruno]

[line]
Guys, you gotta clarify finances with her, give her the true picture, and don't wait until the week before the interview.


[line]


Not easy... i have need several year for explain all to my ex... when we have begin life together, my bill for electric, water and gas have grow by 300%... she was without know how much expensive is energy in our country... a other problem was for learn to sort the dustbins... one for paper, one for glas, one for bio, one for plastic and one for the rest... she have put all in the last, the more expensive... and with credit card... need to explain that you need pay back after...

And more complex about income before and after taxe, the TVA system, .... it is almost impossible to ready RW to our finance system before she live here...

[RacerX]

I'm wondering if you had been in total agreement with all four of those elements I posted about, would your ex-RW be an ex?
t

jb,

Well jb, since you brought the mrs into it and I would gather from your condensing snippet you MUST be a man of great experience in this arena.  

Now, me I have only had a decade of being intimate with RW (and yes, when I referred to 'pleasure' it is that special evolution that occurs when two people are in love...), you, I assume have had far greater experience.

Now, IIRC, you are a military man who puts "his money where his mouths is", yes?  So just exactly how long have you been married to the present Mrs. jb?

In my world, we reverently listen to men who have marriages that have lasted 20 or more years, we pay attention to those of 10, and we dismiss those of 5 or less.  Which category do you fit?

My take on your advice to "newbies" is you don't have a clue to their demographics.  These are apt to be men 35-55 yo with at least one divorce, and many loves in their lives.  [where is that clue bat when I need it!]

This BS about the inlaws, finances, etc.... these men could probably lecture you.  Religion might play a hypothetical role, but PLEASE don't predicate your advice on what happened to you on 'the other board.'  You mean RWG??, if so just say it! The reality is that religion probably will not impact a RW relationship in most instances.

Look, I could on and on, but I know your character...and know it is good.  My only point of my post is that a true "newbie" needs advice to get his head straight, find a RW he loves, and, well....I leave that up others more articulate than me to come up with some meaniful advice.

[Mtnmansummit]

jb,



for example, I would disagree with the basic premise of even using a MOB catalog to find your future wife - the better more traditional girls won't be on those big databases... if you are truly serious in finding 'mrs right' there are many smaller, well managed agencies that personally know each of the girls and will guide you through the process.

RacerX
What small agencies do you recommend?

[RacerX]

Hi Mtnmansummit

Well, to be honest I am not a real expert on this...I met my fiancee through a friend who from her Russian connections knew a very lovely lady....
One way you can find the small agencies, the ones that know EACH girl personally is to goggle search any city that sounds interesting for you using "marriage agency" as a search term.  The very private ones will only be in Russian, but others will have small and not very impressive web site.

Rule #1 - if they have a great website, shun it!

However, having been interested in FSUW for nearly a decade, three agencies I know to be superb are:

http://www.destiny.spb.ru/
http://www.abelarusbride.net/
http://www.i-rena.com/

each of these is run by people who can personally vouch for every girl.

Rule #2, has the owner personally met each girl?

Interestingly, the owners of destiny and i-rena will assess your personality and try to match women who are a "fit" probably better than you would have tried it on your own.

Rule #3, will the owner take a personal interest in you...matchmaking is a very old and honored profession in the FSU, it's only recently that the MOB business has made it something else.

I wish I could be of more help, but the collective knowledge of this board exceeds mine by light years.

Good luck!

[Goombah]

How about a list of such agencies in Ukraine?

I know of ONE:  http://www.kissesfromukraine.com

Kevin

[RacerX]

...thanks Goombah-
see, I told you this board's members could help.

I thought about Rule #4: make certain the agency is not USA run, but I have mixed feelings about that

[2tallbill]

1.) Religion…. You must be in absolute harmony with this.   If you are a religious man, you should not consider marriage to an atheist, or even a woman who is agnostic about religious beliefs.  Sooner, rather than later, you will be at loggerheads with you living on a self imposed guilt trip of your own making.  This can also be taken to heart if you are perhaps a member of a conservative protestant sect and she is a practicing Orthodox Catholic.  The same holds true if you are ambivalent about Church and she is a strong believer. There's just way too much room for conflict if you don't share the same belief system.  You might marry and be reasonable happy for awhile, right up to that moment when infatuation wears off and you need commonality to find real love.

2.) Children…. This topic shouldn't require much of an explanation, however you must make your feelings clear to each other about the "yours, mine' and our's"   part of how big the family is going to ultimately be.  Are you a guy with kids that you expect to be mothered by the new wife?  Does she have a kid or two that you expect to merge with your own?  Do you agree on the possibility of having common children?  Are you a guy with zero parenting experience, don't want to know, and she's wanting kids?  Believe me, this is huge.

3.) In-laws…. This may be something you haven't thought much about, but if you marry a woman from the FSU, it's better than 50-/-50 odds you will be expected to help out your RWs family after you marry.  This will be especially true if your bride's mom and dad are over retirement years.  Pensions in Russia, for example, are about $35-$40 per month per person, this is a starvation level stipend and the girl's family is probably getting by with the help of the salary she brings home.  When she marries and leaves home, they will become destitute without some source of extra income.   Are you prepared to share some, perhaps even a goodly portion, of your earnings with her family every month?

4.) Last, but certainly not least is: money.  A spendthrift cannot have a successful marriage with a tightwad, and the reverse is also true.  While I have no stats to back it up, personal experience tells me 90% (or more) of the arguments I ever had with the ex, which finally led to drastic action, was over money.  If you are a good money manager and understand the concept of a budget, and she doesn't have a clue, if she thinks money grows on trees, or worse, thinks the solution to her money problems is for you to work harder, this will be a marriage made in hell.

These things are, IMHO, key issues, and you must find a woman who totally agrees with your viewpoint on all four points.  Two out of three, or three out of four won't cut it, it's gotta be 100% agreement if you expect the marriage to last beyond 720 days.

I don't know how you can get the hard questions answered in a week or 10 days, especially if you have to do everything through a third person translating your thoughts for you.  One week wonders are either the quickest study on earth, or simply the luckiest.  I don't know which.

Excellent points

[Boethius]

I disagree.  I don't think you have to have "absolute harmony" in religious matters.  I happen to have religious views that align with my husband's, but I have religious relatives married to atheists, and my family is full of mixed marriages (Christians/Jews).


I think all one needs is respect for the other's views.

[Trenchcoat]

I disagree.  I don't think you have to have "absolute harmony" in religious matters.  I happen to have religious views that align with my husband's, but I have religious relatives married to atheists, and my family is full of mixed marriages (Christians/Jews).


I think all one needs is respect for the other's views.

JB says at one point that, "The same holds true if you are ambivalent about Church and she is a strong believer." So it may be more if there are strong views from both sides that it's almost certain to cause trouble. I agree that some difference can work if each side is willing to put it to the side and not inflict it on the other.

The first girl I met in Kiev from Mariupol was fairly religious, Orthodox Christian. She went along with all the standard stuff, attended here & there, Easter, Christmas, etc. However she was agreeable to a civil marriage. I'm atheist and while I don't mind if a girl goes off and does that stuff I couldn't go along with it as a part of my life. That said a girl that had little or no religious outlook would likely be a more comfortable fit in that aspect at least I'm guessing.

[Trenchcoat]

4.) Last, but certainly not least is: money.  A spendthrift cannot have a successful marriage with a tightwad, and the reverse is also true.  While I have no stats to back it up, personal experience tells me 90% (or more) of the arguments I ever had with the ex, which finally led to drastic action, was over money.  If you are a good money manager and understand the concept of a budget, and she doesn't have a clue, if she thinks money grows on trees, or worse, thinks the solution to her money problems is for you to work harder, this will be a marriage made in hell.

This guy had certainly done the rounds I'm guessing. As you know I had experience of no.4 its a dead ringer for Kherson Girl. In a discussion with her she told me that she expected the guy to go out and provide to her wants/needs and if necessary that he goes out and works even longer if needed. That's what her brother did but of course money isn't as easily come by in Ukraine. She was a spender of course, me the opposite Though to be honest there are a people that are far greater tightwads than me. I'm not sure though who exactly would suit a spender, a very wealthy guy? Anyone? Spend enough particularly if both are spenders and I doubt the outcome will do the relationship any good.

[tfcrew]

JB did not mention ----- pets.
The kisses from Ukraine site is still around I see...

http://www.12kisses.com/profile?id=460883

Alevtina is obviously a dog lady.....How would that work out with a cat guy?

[Boethius]

So it may be more if there are strong views from both sides that it's almost certain to cause trouble.

I disagree.  I have family members where one spouse was a devout Christian, the other, a devout Jew.  No issues with respect to that in the marriage.  It all comes down to respecting the others' choices.

[2tallbill]

I disagree.  I have family members where one spouse was a devout Christian, the other, a devout Jew.  No issues with respect to that in the marriage.  It all comes down to respecting the others' choices.

What did they do with their children? You tell one child that Christ is divine and
the other child that Christ was simply a man, he was mistaken in his opinions of
himself and some day the true Messiah will come?