Education...there and here

[Mamma D]

Why do you think so many of these ladies are better educated than their American counterparts? It appears to me that they are also educated in fields that are male dominated in this country. What is the cost of a good education there and here for a women?

Do they work in the fields that they have studied, once they leave school? How many of them "drop out" of the work force to become stay at home moms and wives?

Once they come here, are they eager to go back to work and /or re-train... or would they rather be the "traditional women"(staying home)?

Do you think that this education impacts on the way they view themselves and self esteem?

[BC]

Think a part of it is that the three 'R's are really pushed and drilled into young kids there. Lots of homework and attention to details. Discipline in the class and at home is seems to have a high priority and punishment quite harsh for western standards.

[Bruce]

The bigger questions are : 

 

    1.  What is happening to the Russian educational system?

     2.  Why do Russian men seem to lag so far behind the women in the past 15 years?

     3.   In general, why does it seem that highly educated Russian women are frowned upon by Russian men?

[BC]

Bruce,

http://studyrussian.com/MGU/russian-education-system.html

I did visit our daughters elementary school and a university while I was there.  Sure the furniture and buildings were old style and a bit run down but the students sure acted much more orderly, nicer and  respectful than they do here.

Regarding if/why men lag behind women I don't really know, but a wild guess it might be because men are more needed in the labor/trade workforce and maybe some other social factors that limit the possibilities to attend higher institutions. Factors like having to work.

I've been there three times and didn't really notice the frowning upon you mentioned, but it might be linked with your second question.. Maybe jealousy?.. there are a lot of professional women there that's for sure.

Mamma D,

My wife did work in RU to help support her family but now enjoys a more traditional role as wife and mother.

She is proud of her education and russian schools even though she did not attend a higher university. It's quite impressive when she pulls little tidbits about classical music, opera, history, literature and art out of her 27 year old 'hat'.

I did notice that in almost every home I visited there were many many books. Here people read the newspaper or a magazine at home, on the bus or in the park but there you see people reading books all over the place.  

[andrewfi]

As a (hopefully) soon to graduate student who has worked with students from several countries of the FSU as well as Western Europeans and North Americans I have seen a few things.

In general it seems to me that teaching the FSU (generalising, of course, but as most students are still being taught by teachers from the 'old system', I think, valid.) is pretty good at getting across the theoretical stuff, it means that students are literate and numerate, to a much greater degree than students of similar levels from North America (sorry!). There seems to be a continuum, ranging from the East as the highest and west wards decreasing.

This is not all positive though. What is less well taught is the ability to take what one knows and apply it in a creative manner. So, the continuum in this regard runs from West to East. Americans seem better able to do more with less, so that in many respects, given equal native ability, there s pretty much parity between the two sides. But, if you get a creative, educated Russian on a technical subject, then IMHO, there are few to hold a candle to such a person. When selecting teams for rapid analysis and synthesis of solutions, in my field, I am always happy to include a member from the FSU for their undoubted technical expertise and somebody a tad more western for their ability to ask questions of the data.

I think that this may come from resource issues. In many subject areas the ONLY resource available is the teacher and his brain. Often pretty few books and little or no opportunity to work in a practical manner applying taught knowledge on real world issues.

As to the cultural issues, it certainly seem to me that even young people from the FSU tend to have a greater cultural range than their western counterparts. Evidence of this is simply, but not limited to, my music collection on my computer. This is largely snaffled from my university network. The Russian music selection is MUCH broader than that of Western students, something that now i have moved away, my visitors are very appreciative of! Thanks, Olga, Arturs, Zhamilya, Pavel and many others! Also, still, they are much better readers, even when reading in English. By this I mean that when preparing an essay, they Will read the original book from the library, even if painfully photocopied. Us western guys, we look on the interned and are often content with synopsis and secondary sources. Westerners are impressed by my little library of books on my subject areas, most after five or six years of study have very few books on the shelf, Russians are envious (cost of acquisition was not low...) but see my collection as normal for somebody who can afford it.

From what I have seen of the gender differences, it appears that this is due to the different social roles and regard in which men and women are held. Guys, who go to a good school can and Will get a good job, almost regardless of their achievements there. The girls on the other hand, if they are to successfully compete with the guys, must do significantly better than their male rivals.

[Bruce]

Andrew - great to see you on this board! 

Excellent explanation.  Yes, it definitely is a man's world in the FSU. 

I agree with the high theoretical and lower practical aspects of their educational system, primarily because the dollars just are not there to purchase and experiment with the latest gadgets, assays etc.   

The biggest future threat to Russia's over all knowledge base seems to be the evolving class structure that will in effect permit only the rich to go on to higher education and the masses held back due to their inability to afford any higher education.  In many ways it looks like Russia is going back to a Czarist type educational structure ie. most men ending up in the military and women in light labor at best.  Perhaps just as big is the tremendous brain drain ie. Russia's best and brightest scientists etc. fleeing to the West or Israel.

[andrewfi]

Frankly, I do not think that the future for Russia's education system is bad at all. They have good teachers, motivated pupils and notwithstanding the possibility to obtain qualifications by less than honest hard work there re many very well educated people. We should not forget that Russia is undergoing a very rapid transformation, based admittedly upon extractive industry. The government has set up a 'stabilisation fund' much as other countries such as Norway have done. Russia is paying down foreign debt at a furious rate and still has huge amounts of money slooshing around wanting projects upon which to spend it.

I think we will start to see large infrastructure projects and further revitalisation of the Russian education system. Much work has already been done, but I am sure that we will not see a lessening of Russian higher education, except in the very short term. As to a brain drain, well, perhaps true in some areas, but in my field, for example, wages are good and Russians are, if anything, coming home, albeit, in my experience, working for foreign firms on ex-pat terms, now that is a nice deal for a young Russian!

[Bruce]

Andrew - I appreciate your optimism.  It is hard to know how the future will exactly unfold.  I hope you are right, since I firmly believe the world will be better off if Russia is stable and not a source of chaos.