A bit of seasoning?

[Timmy K.]

:?  Hello every one,

 Been a while since I posted. Viktoria and I broke up about 2 months ago.

 Why? 1- Probably the big age difference, {24 years} 2- Maybe I sent her to much money every month plus extras. 3- Change in personalities and priorities right before I was to go over and get married. 4- Maybe some lies. 5- Failure of "impartial mutual understanding" and communication.

  Where do I start, not sure, my emotions are still like a roller coaster up and down, but I have moved on with some difficulty. Thanks to Bruno and Greg from Atlanta and my new friends Tanya and James here in Des Moines. They have been together for a little over 6 years. We are practically neighbors{ less than a mile away, same neighborhood} and I didn't even know it.She is from Kharkov also,same as Viktoria.

 From the start when I met Viktoria last April and spent 3 weeks with her I knew she was a very determined young lady with a lot of fire.Very poor and a true blue simple gal from Ukraine. We are still very compatible in many, many ways and I thought this was the one for me. OK- All the warnings and cautions about age difference, remember new guys you had better take this in to very careful consideration before you leap out of the skillet and into the fire. She always told me how independent she was, {extremely}, come to find out!! She also told me how important it was for her to finish her education there. It was always on the back burner and I did not pay that much attention to the subject until right before {2 weeks } I was to go over and get married and use the { DCF] for her to come to America. We prepared a small wedding for her at home in Kharkov {questionable} and I did all of the preparations for the visa,she got her international passport{questionable again} all of her other cerificates,{ police record and birth certificate} and I had and still have for that matter all of my ducks in a row here. I had been sending her about $200 a month from the day I returned last spring on May 1. A nice birthday gift { new cell phone} and about $250 cash in June. Then came the extras for the wedding, dress, shoes, some jewlry and a few other odds and ends. OK right before I was to go over she decided that she wanted to test out and finish her education and get her degree. I'll back up here a little bit where I got the first warning about her independent nature and the temper she has that I was already aware of. I always sent her money about the middle of the month, and at the same time I would send money for our e- mail account to the agency that Greg recommended me to use, this guy is very honest and took me and Viktoria on to help us with all kinds of information and primarily our e-mail and translations. Very reasonable I should also add. One time we made a mistake about how to divide the money up. At this time Viktoria and I were talking on the phone too, her English was getting better every week, I would talk to her so she could get used to hearing English and she had her electronic dictionary and paper dictionary by her side every time I called and she learned alot of new words  with me over the phone. OK I would tell her to go to the office {agency} and  the owner would go get the western union for us and give Viktoria her monthly cut. This one time  Viktoria got $50 less than what I told her and all Hell broke lose, simple mistake by me and the owner, we will call him {Joe}, I got a quick phone call from her,to call her and as usuall I told her I loved her but this time she no longer loved me. Then I got the nasty letter to go along with all of this. So I said I was sorry and sent her the $50 mistake and all was well until the eduaction thing. I of course was trying to explain that our priorities should be on the wedding and that her eduaction was not that important for her here in America, she could see all of her opportunities here when she arrived and that her education would not be recognized except for some possible credits towards becoming qualified here in America within her field. OK- Still I did not take this very seroiusly. Then she told me she needed $200 maybe $300 for her exams, again I hesitated and tried to explain all of this again.  I had said I would help her but I wanted more information, no good, we were running out of time according to her, About this time I met Tanya and James, and Tanya offered all the help a person could ask for, she talked to Viktoria on the phone and then told me  " Tim I would use some caution here some answers to some questions are questionable" Tanya said the money sounded right but some other issues concerning classes and such were not so good and also a couple of e-mails. OK I was late sending her the money for her exams and all Hell broke loose again, this time it was over according to her and she said she refused to meet me in Kiev, I already had an apartment lined up for a few days so we could go get registered and make sure of all our documents were in order, I was following instructions on usic.gov, every thing is there as long as you take your time and do your homework, also I had made a few trips to our usic office here in Des Moines and we were perpared. So needless to say I cancelled my flight, made my employer upset because of the plans for me being gone, I had to cancell my arrangements for my house and dog and so on. My heart was broke and believe me my head was spinning. About a week later I get a phone call from her and she asks me if I was alright. This was in the middle of the afternoon on a Friday while I was at work. I told her I would call her right after work. We made up again. So I thought about the money for her exams and I said to myself{ Why not, it is only a few hundred dollars and this really means alot to her so I sent it, then I sent her her monthly money at the same time. About $500 altogether. The next week I call her, always on the weekend sometimes during the middle of the week.Of course I said I loved her as ususal and she said she loved me but this time she told me she needed more money, that she was broke, she said she needed between $300 and $500. I said no, write a letter so we understand each other better,I asked where did $250 or more go in less than a week. Again all Hell broke loose and I got a very nasty letter in less than an hour. This time I said its over. All of this took place on a Saturday morning.  I wrote her back immediately and tried again very nicely to explain that all successful American couples shared in every thing and this included budgets. I had done this many times so she would understand how life would be here. Then another nasty letter from her. About two weeks ago I wrote a good letter of closer to say where I thought I was wrong, no accusations or insults to her what so ever. I said it was my failure not to recognize her independence and that our age difference was a very important factor and that I was sorry if I hurt her and so on. No reply and I did not expect one, Last weekend our translator writes me and says "Tim, Viktoria is here and wants to send you a long letter", I said OK as long as there isn't a lot of accusations and insults. I would like to talk about this in an adult manner and with mutual understanding and nothing less. Our translator tells me "unfortunately Tim there are alot of accusations and insults in this letter" so I refused it. That was the end for sure. Viktoria said don't bother writing again. So here I am, getting ready to head back to Kharkov again but this time I am meeting one lady for sure who is much older and has a 10 year old son, we are very compatible and are acting like adults, what a difference to talk to some one more mature. I also have a couple of back ups to meet just in case and I can meet more if neccessary. I've been writing to this lady for about 4 weeks now and it does look good. But the memories of Viktoria are still haunting me, I look back and wonder should I look her up when I go over and maybe try again. Greg says definite NO, and Tanya tells me to meet this older lady and stick with a older lady for sure. Tanya also tells me do not send them money even after you meet. Greg says the same. Tanya and James told me their story and so has Greg. 

 Any one else feel free to give me your advice.

 This last 8 to 10 weeks have been something I'll never forget. But I am not giving up I am determined and hopefully I can use some better jugement this time with out being over cautious and ruin a good chance with a new lady. You all heard this from me before.  {Nervous]  again !! LOL At least my humor isn't shot.

[wxman]

I would agree with your friends. Do not look her up again. How many times must each of you say it's over before it's over? Yes, you have invested a lot of time, emotions, and yes love for this woman, but you are on different wavelengths. I will not say anything bad about her or her actions, as I do not know her. It just seems that you are not a good match. The older woman you are now writing sounds like she connects with you. Give it a try and see where it leads. Hate to see either of you getting married and every other week saying it's over because of a disagreement. Just my opinion.

[dostogirl]

[user=71]Timmy K.[/user] wrote:

Greg says definite NO, and Tanya tells me to meet this older lady and stick with a older lady for sure. Tanya also tells me do not send them money even after you meet. Greg says the same.

I'd listen to your friends..

[Bruno]

Hello Tim,

The money issue is a real problem... 200$ each month is a lot for a poor ukrainian woman... don't spoil her before marriage... until marriage, you have no financial responsability to the women... a FSU woman was able to life without your financial help before knowing you, why the hell they need some money after knowing you... send some gift is right but only when it is your own choice...

In any case, take some time for build a relation... and like you say, older women, specially these with child are more responsible and mature...

About language, someone speaking your language is a good bonus... not needed but it help to build a relation in a faster way.

The only thing very important now is not become desesperate... this can lead you to choice a wrong woman... if you have some doubt about your next lady, drop her directly and search a other one... the time and money loose is nothing when compare to a misluck marriage after several year.

[Turboguy]

I have been scammed by older gals as much as I have by younger girls.  I don't think it is the age of your gal alone.   Why were you sending her $ 200.00 a month?  Had she quit her job?   I agree with what Bruno, I believe said.  Where she lives that is a lot of money.  If she lived in Moscow it would not be. 

I also agree you are better off moving on.  I see a lot of similarity in what you just went through with what I just went through except for the money part.   I think you just hooked up with the wrong gal.  I probably did too.   Mine wants to patch things up now but I think either of us going back would be a big mistake.

[Voyageur]

Hello Tim,

Your story sounds very similar to my experience, prior to me meeting  and marrying my Russian wife. Through nothing but dumb luck and good  fortune, I am now happily married.

But, two I first met a young woman from Kharkov who was a student and  had the age difference (about 24 years) that you wand Viktoriya had.  She had a young daughter also.

I wound up sending her about maybe about $ 250.00 a month. She was also  graduating University and was very serious about her degree, and I also  told her that her degree would not be so important in America. But  after all the time and effort she put towards this degree, I could  understand how it may have been important to her. Also, she asked me  for money to help her "pass" her tests. Evidently, the students had to  pay for a "party" for the professors. She asked me for $ 300 - $ 400  for this. I balked at this amount, and asked her how other students who  were not engaged to an American could afford this amount?:huh:.  I never really got a clear answer, but she pretty much demanded this, and I was stupid enough to pay it.

So, she got through her classes. But really, when I look back on it,  you can pretty much tell everything by the woman's actions. When I look  back, I can see that this young woman from Kharkov was not really  attracted to me, even though I was attracted to her (she was in a quiet  way, very beautiful).  To make a long story short, we went through  all of the K1 visa process, but in the last minute, she decided not to  come (when she was at the Kiev airport) to America. I was waiting for  her at the JFK gate for four hours after the flight, with no word from  her since she left Kharkov.  I thought she had some problems with  customs, but she had turned back to go home to Kharkov.  She sent  me an SMS to my PC, that I received after I got home.  So this was  the end - or so I thought.

Four months later she contacted me again by telephone. By then I had  forgotten about her. She said she missed me and wanted to come to  America alone (her K1 was still valid). I thought about her and decided  to spend the money for an Aerosvit flight from Kiev to JFK to see if we  had any chance. She got here (another very long wait at JFK - after two  hours I amost left) and spent a total of five days here until she  decided she wanted to go back to Kharkov for good.  This time, it  was the end of this chapter of my life and I bought her the first  ticket back.

What did I learn from this? I learned that - if you try - you can  understand everything from actions rather than words or hurt feelings  due to "cultural differences." You should always be aware if you are  being used as a goat.  If you are a decent man, you will always  try to be a real man for your potential wife, but it should only go so  far.

For example, my present wife never asked me for any money at any time,  except for travel and apartment expenses in Moscow for getting the K1  visa. I bought her driving lessons in Stavropol. But the way that my  wife acted towards me, and the way the woman in Kharkov acted to me  were like night and day.  My wife is 6 years older than the the  woman in Kharkov and this life experience has made a great difference  in her outlook and attitudes, IMHO.

I do not know if any of this story helped you Tim, but I hope that you  can see that it is possible to make mistakes and "hit bottom" and then  find your happiness. Although pure dumb luck played a big role in my  life, I did learn what signs to look for, and how not to think with my  heart but with my head, especially when I comes to sending money. Good  luck to you!

[Ryan]

I have to agree that YES you did everything wrong....  Everything to the new people read this and make sure you don't make the same mistakes....

Ryan

[KenC]

Timmy,

Forget about Victoria and make sure the next woman doesn't view you as her personal ATM.

KenC

[Albert]

Tim, very sorry about your experiences.  The word from the wise is that we 'learn' from such things, but I think you 'learned more than was necessary for any person.'  :-))

You have gotten very good advice from your DM friends and others.  Now hope you can follow this advice.

Not at all to try to put down on you, but I can see in your actions and the actions of many more on these discussion boards that most of the problems follow from 'going on a wife hunt' or wanting to have a wife next month or next year in the same manner that you want a new refrigerator, new car, new HD TV or whatever.

I know I am in the minority, but I just enjoy women.  I date women in my home city, in other cities in USA and in all cities that I travel to on business in other countries of the world.  I feel no need to be married.  But I am not opposed to marriage or at least a long term committed relationship.  Because of my outlook, I haven't ever gotten 'burned' so to speak.

So why not try it.  Stop 'looking for a wife.'  First, look to have great times.  The marriage bit will develop more naturally.  If you go on a University campus and ask 100 gals and 100 guys if they are 'looking for a wife or husband' they will look at you as if you are crazy.  Very few normal people in USA 'look for a spouse' in the same manner that guys here are doing.  But yet we know that many, many people marry those they met in college soon after getting their degrees.  They weren't 'looking' but rather let things develop naturally through the dating equation.

Yes, I have given about 5 women out of 155 that I have met some large (for their economy) monetary gifts.  None have asked for the money, and most were a little taken aback or perhaps even hurt (temporarily) by my gift.  I always stick the money in their pants pocket or bra as I am leaving and tell them not to look until they get home.  Thus, none can actually return the money to me.  I never felt bad about this money with regard to our future because I gave it as a true gift, just as one would do to a son, daughter, etc.  We all know sons and daughters can treat you like sheet later also, so no big trauma.  But to get into sending money every month . . . . that seems to be really asking for trouble.

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"]

Albert wrote:   I know I am in the minority, but I just enjoy women.

[/size][/i][size="3"][color="darkred"]1- Are you really in the minority?
2- What is the greatest gift you can give a woman?[/color]
[/size]

[KenC]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Albert wrote: I know I am in the minority, but I just enjoy women.

[/size][/i]1- Are you really in the minority?
2- What is the greatest gift you can give a woman?

I think Albert ment that his goal was to  just enjoy the women as opposed to qualifying them for marriage. I have to agree too.  And in that case, he is in the minority.  Most guys go over with a "wife vacancy" to fill and then go about filling it.  They forget to have fun and they sometimes forget to even develope a relationship.  That isn't "normal" dating practice, but it is "normal" MOB practice.  Albert wrote:

Stop 'looking for a wife.'  First, look to have great times.  The marriage bit will develop more naturally.

There happens to be a lot of posters on this board that have been married for some time that didn't meet their Russian wife with any preconceived notion of marriage.  Their relationship was not an after thought, but the main motivation.  I know that some will view this as a "what came first?  The chicken or the egg" type scenario, but it is much more like "the cart before the horse".  The "horse" being the relationship followed by the "cart" being any thoughts of marriage.

My answer to your second question is: me.

KenC

[catzenmouse]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Albert wrote: I know I am in the minority, but I just enjoy women.

[/size][/i]1- Are you really in the minority?
2- What is the greatest gift you can give a woman?

1 - A woman is the finest work of art ever created in the universe. If you don't enjoy women for being women then you are in the wrong place!

2 - Your heart and soul. Honesty, trust, respect, care, communication, and security. (to mention a few off the top of my head). I would have said "me" but KenC beat me to it...

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="darkred"]1- Are you really in the minority?
2- What is the greatest gift you can give a woman?

[size="4"]Photo Guy's [color="navy"]Answers:[/color][/size]
1- No, lots of guys enjoy women. There are different ways of expressing it, right?
2- The greatest gift you can give her is:
[color="red"]Your love, in the form of adoration, devotion, and monogamy.

[/color][/color][/font][/size]

[KenC]

Photoguy,

You see the difference between you and me is that I think that I am much more important than anything that I could ever "give" to my wife.

KenC

[BC]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

Photo Guy's Answers:
1- No, lots of guys enjoy women. There are different ways of expressing it, right?
2- The greatest gift you can give her is:
Your love, in the form of adoration, devotion, and monogamy.

 

My answers to your answers but not albert's post:

1. There's One way I prefer

2. You can give all the adoration and devotion you want but even that won't work if it isn't mutual (been there, done that.. yuk). As to monogamy:

mo·nog·a·my   (m-ng-m)
n.

[list=1]

• The practice or condition of having a single sexual partner during a period of time.  [Yeah think I qualify.. sex is a prerequisite but sometimes these periods were quite short][/*]
  [list=1]
  
• The practice or condition of being married to only one person at a time. [That's the law around here] [/*]
  
• The practice of marrying only once in a lifetime.[oops.....] 
[/b][/color][/*]

[/list]

[Bruce]

Tim - please remember that if a girl asks for money to help support her life or lifestyle it is time to move on.   Paperwork through the BCINS etc. that should be your expense.  We say it again and again on this board - if a girl asks or expects anything from you other than yourself it is time to find the next girl.  Sure the man has to front the bill for fun things you two would do together while dating, but that is only for the two of you.  Fancy restaurants, fancy presents etc. should not be required or needed.  I hope you have learned your lesson and will seek women who do not require a monthly stipend / money for emergencies / money to help them with anything.  Best of luck.

[Timmy K.]

 You now it really wasn't the money that upset me, face it , if I were to date a gal here in Des Moines one time a week, for a month, take her out for dinner it would cost at least $50 each time. Also I would like to make a little clarification here, on the first reason I gave at the first of the story I should have said, "generation gap"

 She had or I should say has some very big expectations of what she wanted to do here in America. She wanted to own her own firm,{ a home builder business} it was possible but when I told her that this could take a few years to do she wouldn't listen. Then she thought she wanted to be a lawyer. Then she thought she just wanted to stay at home and take care of a whole bunch of kids, and there were a few other ideas also.  All the time I tried to tell her "wait until you get here and check things out". Towards the last month or so before I was to go { October 23}That was when things really started to go bad. I actually saw it comming a little bit. I started to see the generation gap, me unable to keep up with her lets say 10 to 15 years down the line even if it lasted that long.24 years difference is alot. I have a niece that is 22. But anyway thanks for all the feedback, I do appeiciate it.When I started to write to her I was writing about 18 women, all of them were in their mid 30's, my second choice is still there, I wrote to her and things really look good here. I even told her what happened.  Now I have another decision to make, do I go to Kharkov and meet the new one or do I go to Chermigov and meet the original second choice.

 

[Albert]

Tim say:  "Now I have another decision to make, do I go to Kharkov and meet the new one or do I go to Chermigov and meet the original second choice."

I say:  Neither of the above.  You go to Kharkov and have first time meetings with about 15 ladies that you exchange 5-10 emails with before you arrive.  Then you have second dates with the 3-5 that appeal to you and that you seem to have some compatibility with.  Then you spend 6-10 days with the two that you really like.  Then you go back home; think about these two and go from there for a second trip.

[MandM]

Timmy, if you don't want to get your heart broken again, simply don't do any of the things you've been doing for Victoria:

-don't get engaged to a person you hardly know, who can't even speak your language and who is much younger than you ,

-don't send her money - she should love you for your personality and not for the size of your wallet.

I feel for you Timmy, but c'mon guys you don't have to be so daft.! How on earth do you expect relationship like that to work out?