Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Experienced => Topic started by: supranatural on April 08, 2007, 07:30:06 AM
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I've ready jb's post about emotional and financial costs of pursuing RW/UW. I've heard a variety of posts on whether someone is undercapitalized for this venture. I've been through this before and I have a very realistic idea of the costs ($$$ for new clothes, car, dental work, furniture, trips back to Russia, trips for her parents to come visit, etc) compared to what I make. I rather suspect however that the average RW/UW seeker is not on a board like this and is probably woefully undercapitalized while the average RWD poster is, IMHO, probably better financed and more intelligent than the average RW/UW seeker. I don't want anyone to post what they make although if someone wants to I'm not going to stop them - I was just wondering about averages here.
I also realize this may be a sensitive subject but I think it is quite relevant as the costs of supporting a RW/UW until they get on their feet here is substantial and not a trivial consideration.
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There is a couple of things to consider here. One is present cash flow and the other is reserve capital. I think one needs a deal of both before getting into this and if one (Based in USA or Aus) can't sideline somewhere around 20K a year for the first few years to devote to travel/meeting/visas/weddings/etc etc. It is going to be a very tough row to hoe.
I am not saying it won't take more or that it can't be done for less and of course it fluctuates greatly at different stages. I see for example some very high expense periods shortly after my fiance' arrives here.
FWIW
I/O
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Definately many other financial matters that are involved than just income. If one is single and making $50,000 a year with no children, no house or car payments, they are probably more finacially stable to take on this endeavor than someone making $100,000 with 2 kids, and a big house payment. Many times it comes down to cash flow, or lack thereof.
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Vote : <$40K
Maybe you can make a lower categorie... "<$20k"... i am at 19602 euro only... make 26213$... and i am in the middle class here...
Let see... before i change of home, i can spare around 50% of my income month... now, it is reduce to around 30%...
Heal insurance is around 75$ year... and a coverage at 100% from the work for hospital... home insurance around 250$ year... pay when i am in holiday, when i am ill... pay if i loose job... no debt... and some other work advantage...
Trip to FSU around 350 euro ( go and back ), appartment for one month between 200 and 300 euro... money used for the stay around 350 euro... let say 1000 euro total... just my holiday money or my 13th month...
Income and expense are very different between US and Europe... and i am sure that the same difference will exist between US state, between city and village, etc...
Simply say that if you are not able to spare some money now or that you have a lot of debt... better wait a little...
I also realize this may be a sensitive subject
Why ?
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Because in many western societies, particularly American it is considered rude to inquire as to a persons income.
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Bruno
Heal insurance is around 75$ year... and a coverage at 100% from the work for hospital... home insurance around 250$ year... pay when i am in holiday, when i am ill... pay if i loose job... no debt... and some other work advantage...
Just as an FYI. My health insurance costs me about $150 per month from work, and that is just my portion. The company picks up the big part. If I had to pay for that on my own it would be about $1400 PER MONTH for a family. And the coverage is not 100% all the time either.
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Because in many western societies, particularly American it is considered rude to inquire as to a persons income.
I am not questioning Phil's statement, I just find it interesting that posters write everything about their most personal relationship details, their dreams, their mistakes ::) and even real-time messages with their past, present and future significant others. But to ask about someone's financial status is really pushing the envelope :).
BTW, would have guessed more categories to choose from over the $ 100 K level. $ 100 K is much different than $ 500 K which is much different than $ 1.0 MM.
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And the CEO of Occidental Petrol was in the papers today. He made OVER $1 MILLION A DAY. Think he can afford a younger RW?
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Yes, but not a Russian mistress :usdeyes:
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Except for Bruno I would say I'm at the lower end of the wage spectrum at only $48,000.00 a year (plus what ever overtime I have to do). But I don't have a car or a house payment, just the monthly incidentals which come to about $350.00 or so.
I've got money in the bank and I can afford to do most of the things I want, now if I happen to find a wife all that goes out the window :sad:. But the good thing about my line of work I can always work extra hours if I need money :usdeyes:
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acrzybear,
Look on the bright side, when you find a mate, you get an extra tax write off. ;D If you have a few kids, even more write offs, and you get most of your taxes back. So in essence you become richer. I love voodoo economics. :ROFL:
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Except for Bruno I would say I'm at the lower end of the wage spectrum
Not sure... our friend Richard, from Canada and living in Russia, have a Russian income...
I see that a lot of people have more that 100k... here in Belgium, a minister make only 179k year... a senator 69k... and all this before tax... when i was in Navy, in "war" place ( Golf, Somalia and Yougoslavia ), i have earn a little more that 60k year... 14% for social security is removed, 52.5% state tax, 6% city tax...
Here in Belgium, people speak income with tax removed... what we call the "netto"... Do American speak about "brutto" income ( before tax ) or "netto"
EDIT : In Belgium, the brutto medium income is 2280 euro... 1487 netto... so, i am 9% up the medium income in Belgium
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Bruno, we speak 'brutto'. Everything is before taxes because taxes differ widely from state to state, number of people in the family and many different types of financial things we can do to reduce taxes.
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Because in many western societies, particularly American it is considered rude to inquire as to a persons income.
Directly , perhaps .
Indirectly , no problem
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Not sure... our friend Richard, from Canada and living in Russia, have a Russian income...
I see that a lot of people have more that 100k... here in Belgium, a minister make only 179k year... a senator 69k... and all this before tax... when i was in Navy, in "war" place ( Golf, Somalia and Yougoslavia ), i have earn a little more that 60k year... 14% for social security is removed, 52.5% state tax, 6% city tax...
Here in Belgium, people speak income with tax removed... what we call the "netto"... Do American speak about "brutto" income ( before tax ) or "netto"
EDIT : In Belgium, the brutto medium income is 2280 euro... 1487 netto... so, i am 9% up the medium income in Belgium
Here we call it gross income (before taxes), net income (after taxes). Do they have seperate income tax rates for single people vs married people in Belgium as here in US?
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Do they have seperate income tax rates for single people vs married people in Belgium as here in US?
When you are alone, you pay tax for single... when you are married, you can choose to pay for single or together... if both work and earn good income, it is better choose the single modus... lower tax for each... if only one partner work and the other stay home, better fill it together for lower tax... if one child, better together... if two child, better single mode with each partner having the "charge" of one child... etc...
Situation is enough complex but i don't need to worry... tax are removed monthly from the income by the work... so, what i receive is already with tax removed... usually, with the year tax return, i can receive or pay just a few euro of tax...
Almost forget... tax rate is related to how much you earn... very low income is almost no taxe... very high income is over 50%...
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I didn't break down more categories over $100K mainly because:
1) >$100K is approximately the top 5% or so of wage earners in the US, a fairly small group, didn't seem to make much sense to me to break it down further but I can do so if more people think so.
2) I agree big difference between $500K and $100K, but...guys I know who make, say, over $250K typically don't bother going to Russia, one guy I know who is in that category used to go to Russia but has decided not to as he doesn't have the time to do so, but because of his economic and social standing has absolutely no problem getting tons of dates here in the US...he only went to Russia because of his feeling that the women there are more feminine than here. I'll probably make another thread about it, but the guys I know who make $500K usually have women throwing themselves at them and don't ever consider Russia at all.
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Believe me when I tell you you don't wanna know what I make! I think it would be fair to say welfare in the US or Canada pays more!
Instead of going from rags to riches I went from riches to rags!! Never was one to follow the beaten path ;D
Hopefully that situation will change in the future if everything goes wrong!
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Hey Super
I would find it interesting to develop that idea that men who make over $250-500K are least likley to look for a RW.If this were true, do you think most women over there would realize that trying to find a millionaire on any specific web site is a loooong shot? At stop looking at re runs of Beverly Hills 90201 as a measure of the wealth of the average AM? (or other nationality)
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supranatural,
Might have been interesting if your poll had married / unmarried figured in. Of course in the end it's disposable income that counts (another jb'ism).
RVR,
As long as you ain't got debt, a roof over your head and a filled plate a couple times a day you're doing just fine my friend.. I've seen huge houses and nice cars with owners that had mortal fear of the postman. Lemme know when Valya starts taking orders for her Matryoshka's.. You set her up with an online shop yet?
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At stop looking at re runs of Beverly Hills 90201 as a measure of the wealth of the average AM? (or other nationality)
The FSU ladies that i have meet was not specialy deceive from my income... they was not watching "Beverly Hills 90201" but "Married ... with Children"... when compare to "Al Bundy", i am on the good side :ROFL:
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b327/j00wish/bundy1.jpg)
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I've been working in pest control for about 5 years .
It's mind blowing how much money you can make in this business.
I averaged $15K a month and this year , more.
My goal is $18K working alone .
With employees I should pocket around $35K a month
It's a steady climb with the growth in the south west , leading the country in new construction .
This allows to travel as I do .
Headed to S America soon , or Hong Hong , not both
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I've been working in pest control for about 5 years .
It's mind blowing how much money you can make in this business.
I averaged $15K a month and this year , more.
My goal is $18K working alone .
With employees I should pocket around $35K a month
It's a steady climb with the growth in the south west , leading the country in new construction .
This allows to travel as I do .
Headed to S America soon , or Hong Hong , not both
Pest control 15k per month? I'm in the wrong business. :'(
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Definately many other financial matters that are involved than just income. If one is single and making $50,000 a year with no children, no house or car payments, they are probably more finacially stable to take on this endeavor than someone making $100,000 with 2 kids, and a big house payment. Many times it comes down to cash flow, or lack thereof.
Plus depends on state.
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El Rock,
You add new meaning to the statement, "It takes one to know one".
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El Rock,
You add new meaning to the statement, "It takes one to know one".
Does this have some meaning to you?
Ok , now I get it !.
Good one, Gator , I mean , well , for you ;D
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Plus depends on state.
Indeed.
I live in Silicon Valley. Here, $100K a year is barely enough to live on Top Ramen. I pay freshly minted college graduates with a master's degree that much their first year out of school.
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As long as you ain't got debt, a roof over your head and a filled plate a couple times a day you're doing just fine my friend.. I've seen huge houses and nice cars with owners that had mortal fear of the postman. Lemme know when Valya starts taking orders for her Matryoshka's.. You set her up with an online shop yet?
Well BC I guess that is probably true. I have no fear of the postman. I have a couple of personal debts but none to any legal entities. Until I got screwed over on my last job & had to spend our savings to pay the bills I was about halfway to being totally debt free but that kinda put a kink in the chain link!
As far as the matroshka's, we picked up the last batch of blanks last Thursday from Moscow. Now I just gotta get her started on painting them. We are not really taking orders per say. We didn't want to give everybody the same thing & some guys donated way more than others so to be fair I think they should recieve more IE: a ten or 15 piece opposed to a 3 or 5 piece. Also not everybody will recieve a Matrooshka. We came across some other items that we thought would work nicely as well. Stuff that Valya has had sitting around & not found a use for, like the jewelry boxes & bottle holders you can see finished ones on our Services page on the website. Also one member mentioned he had a small munchkin that liked to play with the Dolls & we thought that the Matroshkas ain't really toys & the smaller ones inside, well, needless to say kids like to stick everything in their mouth, but Valya had a couple of Bell shaped things with a bell in side that rings when you rock it. Kind of reminds me of the old rocking clowns we had as kids. So that would be kool for their wee one to play with.
Just trying to be fair to everybody & yet give them something useful as well as memorable.
Selling them online is a waste of time. I been watching EBay for a long time & there are so many for sale there that it is rediculous. The problem is that you can't compare the quality online, only by seeing them up close & personal can you really tell the difference. Most of what I have seen online I would never touch now, but before I met Valya & didn't know the difference I wouldn't have hesitated. However, now I know what to look for & how to judge the quality. ;)
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Plus depends on state.
How very true! There are advantages of living in a rural state. $100,000 a year is probably like $250,000 in the West or East Coast metropolitan areas. Plus not having a state income tax is a big plus. There may not be much in the way of culture or big time entertainment here in podunk city of 200,000, but I can hop on a plane or drive to where it is, and then be able to come back to a slower pace where one gets home from work by 430 pm.
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Always a fun topic for me since I do wealthy people's taxes for a living. El Rock, you looking for an accountant? haha j/k.
Wealth has very little to do with how much you make...
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Wealth has very little to do with how much you make...
Very true. When I tried to get a mortgage I was told that I only just earned enough for the bank to consider me. I had a huge deposit and the payments would be only about 15% of my income. When I asked about it the financial advisor said that most people in UK are in so much debt and have so many liabilities they can't even afford such a small portion. I currently save at least 50% of my income each month and live very comfortably. I don't have all the super expensive luxuries but I honestly don't even want them.
I will quickly compare my mother and father (who are divorced). My father has double my mother's income and only has him and his girlfriend to support. My mum currently has 6 people to support. Yet, my mother is the one lending money to my father. She has no debt, he has tons.
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I know some pests (on other boards) who need controlling.
;D
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My guess is, regardless of your income if you don't have 25k stashed away already for the search/seek/date phase with another 25 ready after she (or they) arrive and thinking all along 'Well.. one more plate at the table can't be that bad..', or worse even thinking this is some kind of 'investment' you're probably barking up the wrong tree.
FWIW
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I have not replied (married and the poll is for singles) but I suspect the income numbers would skew towards the higher range for the married guys who are not answering your poll.
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Always a fun topic for me since I do wealthy people's taxes for a living. El Rock, you looking for an accountant? haha j/k.
Wealth has very little to do with how much you make...
You have any pest control companies you work with ???
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I've had someone contact me , asking about my business ,
I offered to help him
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I voted because my income is still in the same range as when I first started looking. Right in the middle range.
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El Rock,
You add new meaning to the statement, "It takes one to know one".
Yes , I am a pest , the harmless kind , though .
Is that really you in your avatar??
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My guess is, regardless of your income if you don't have 25k stashed away already for the search/seek/date phase with another 25 ready after she (or they) arrive and thinking all along 'Well.. one more plate at the table can't be that bad..', or worse even thinking this is some kind of 'investment' you're probably barking up the wrong tree.
FWIW
It seems to me that 25 grand for the first phase is a bit much, unless you're taking the shotgun approach (wmvm) over a period of time. The second phase I can see 25 grand going expecially if there is a child involved.
I just can't see asking someone to move halfway across the globe and not buying them new clothes, classes (if needed) plus all of the day to day living expenses. From what little I know you will be the primary support for at least the first year, so if you are living paycheck to paycheck this is definitely the wrong avenue.
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Had a young girl (insurance sales person) stop by the house yesterday,,, 23 y.o., blond, extremely beautiful, (about a 9), (5 on the Budweiser scale), native Texan, slim, perfect in every way, I introduced her to my 31 y.o. Russian step-son and he blew her off because she has a 15 month old son by a previous encounter. What's with young people today?? So unforgiving, a divorcee is not worth a second glance? I had some words with him later.
Trust me, when I was single and younger, this girl wouldn't know what hit her... I'd have been on her like white on rice.
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JB,
Your step-son has led a life surrounded by RW. He is spoiled ;D
Give him more time in the USA and he will lower his standards or return to Moscow.
In all seriousness, I have heard directly from many RW (not agencies) that few RM are interested in women with children. Many RM were not keen about their own children, much less someone else's. That is why many Western men have success with stunning RW with children. Such RW have heard that many Western men are fond of children and are thus using marriage agencies.
Yet most WM also prefer women without children. Personally, I love kids and have fun with them. Such feelings must be genuine or otherwise the suspicious and observant RW will flush you in a New York minute. Kids do step up the need for money a few notches.
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I have not replied (married and the poll is for singles) but I suspect the income numbers would skew towards the higher range for the married guys who are not answering your poll.
Exactly why I havn't participated & the fact that I live here puts me way ahead of the curve I'm thinkin'! ;D
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Had a young girl (insurance sales person) stop by the house yesterday,,, 23 y.o., blond, extremely beautiful, (about a 9), (5 on the Budweiser scale), native Texan, slim, perfect in every way, I introduced her to my 31 y.o. Russian step-son and he blew her off because she has a 15 month old son by a previous encounter.
23 you say? Damn if she was only a couple of years older, then I wouldn't feel like such a perv. :devilish:
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What's with young people today?? So unforgiving, a divorcee is not worth a second glance? I had some words with him later.
What did he say on that?
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I introduced her to my 31 y.o. Russian step-son and he blew her off because she has a 15 month old son by a previous encounter. What's with young people today??
JB, he is Russian... Why do you think that so much Russian women ( divorced ) with child are seeking a foreign husband...
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JB, he is Russian... Why do you think that so much Russian women ( divorced ) with child are seeking a foreign husband...
Bruno,
It's not just Russian women with children.. German, Belgian, Italian etc etc etc.. All seek a stable family life especially after possibly bad experiences. Nothing wrong with that. I can also state from first hand experience that with kids, regardless of origin, the joys of being a parent and even being 'promoted' to 'Dad' or 'Papa" are indeed great.
Yes being a single parent in RU is probably much different than being a single parent in Germany for example where a social structure exists that takes care of practically everything to ensure children have all their needs covered. Again, sadly, it all comes down to economics and single mothers are faced with difficult decisions in the end..
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What about the money saved once you find your girl? I mean, no more trips to russia looking for her, agency fees etc etc. Not to mention the time saved, hoo boy. I am barely in the middle category here and will be viturally out of cash when i return from my next trip. Hmmm, I guess there is always a loan or maybe that promotion coming up...
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What about the money saved once you find your girl? I mean, no more trips to russia looking for her, agency fees etc etc. Not to mention the time saved, hoo boy. I am barely in the middle category here and will be viturally out of cash when i return from my next trip. Hmmm, I guess there is always a loan or maybe that promotion coming up...
Your trips to RU may reduce, but once she arrives her visits home will then figure their way into your budget. At least in the US you get a little break to save some cash waiting for travel docs.
Count on a couple trips during the first two years then every second year after that.. By then you might want to invite the in-laws for a visit. Always be ready for an emergency trip home.
In the end there is no money saved IMHE.. only reallocation of your remaining disposable income.
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You think it's expensive to bring her to the US, try moving yourself over to Ukraine! You're talking about buying a new apartment and remodeling it to western standards, then udating furniture and wardrobes, and you've still got tris back to the US to think about. The nice thing is that once you've made this initial investment, you can live very cheaply. But if you don't have the money up front, you'll never get there.
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You think it's expensive to bring her to the US, try moving yourself over to Ukraine! You're talking about buying a new apartment and remodeling it to western standards, then udating furniture and wardrobes, and you've still got tris back to the US to think about. The nice thing is that once you've made this initial investment, you can live very cheaply. But if you don't have the money up front, you'll never get there.
Well yeah... if you insist on living like you did in the west it's gonna cost you a small fortune. However if don't mind going a bit native you can move here pretty cheaply. All it cost me was the plane fare and an additional $1,100.00 (USD) to move my stuff over.
Granted, I did buy the apartment before the prices skyrocketed, but that has only happened in the major cities. Out in the област I understand they are practically giving land away.
I still like Richards idea of a group of us pooling resources and buying an entire village to be used as a little bit of home away from home....
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In the end there is no money saved IMHE.. only reallocation of your remaining disposable income.
Been my experience as well. After 3 years the financial burden has started to ease up, but we currently have my father-in-law as a guest in our home and his three week visit is going to end up running us as much as if we flew back there for a visit. The phone bill isn't going to ease up, nor the usual day to day expenses (they'll increase), nor the travel costs if you're only making 1 or 2 trips a year now. Then add the gov't fees (can't get sh!t done for less than $170 at a shot), extra clothing, extra auto/maint./fuel/insurance, etc...
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I still like Richards idea of a group of us pooling resources and buying an entire village to be used as a little bit of home away from home....
Yeah , and we can hire only beautiful women to clean , cook , landscape ,
do all the chores , it would be paradise
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Sorry about the typos in my post. It seems my keyboard is a bit sticky.
(Note to myself to stop watching those movies on my laptop)
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I'm currently in one of the two lower income ranges (may vary quite a bit, as I'm self-employed). But I think those figures mostly refer to USA way of living... for italian standards, my income is not bad (ranging from 1,2x to 2x the income of my father, teacher in high school). Several of my friends are married or thinking to get married with similar or lower incomes...
Therefore, I believe I could support an hypothethic wife for 12-18 months, but living surely isn't going to be as easy as it is now. That's the main reason I'm looking for a woman with no children. I like them, but for a couple years a baby or a child would ruin the balance... better wait a bit, if possible.
It all depends on the woman, after all... I HOPE that a good Russian/Ukrainian woman will understand the situation and be willing to live a happy but modest life until things get started, she finds a job she likes, we get really used to each other, and so on.
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Note to Scott. Use clear plastic keyboard covers. ;D
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I HOPE that a good Russian/Ukrainian woman will understand the situation and be willing to live a happy but modest life until things get started, she finds a job she likes, we get really used to each other, and so on.
Hope is a good thing, but be SURE to discuss it when the time is appropriate. Like it or not, you, your bank account, and your "stuff" are a package deal. Very few women are honestly willing to trade "down"
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Yeah you better have your finances in order to make this work. I mean, you need a decent bankroll just to meet someone. And there is no point in pretending you are rich, most girls can tell and even if you succeeded the gig would be up when she comes back with you.
I don't see why you could not find someone though even on a middle class income, but like Jet says she won't want to trade down. But middle class in the West is still far above middle class in Ukraine. I think a lot depends on your living situation too, like if you own your own home and such.