New dating search Specification & what I've Learned

[Patagonie]

I hope you give lot of thought to your idea. On the surface it seems sound but in reality you will hit plenty of bumps. Great idea if you want to immerse yourself into a culture but language will be a big problem. Guys here tell you to just talk with the women, get numbers and go on dates. Not that many speak English and fewer speak enough to have any kind of pleasant conversation. If you need to look up a word or two in every sentence to communicate, there is no flow to any conversation. And I am talking about the big cities.

I don't see any link with chemistry and english language.
Western men are too much into the intellectual connection (bla bal connection), but the chemistry is mainly "animal".
Ok i do agree that's a problem later when you want to move along in the relationship.
I met a girl who was not speaking any english. She spent four hours to drive (round trip) to meet me.  ANd she came back for an evening (four hours of car again) and after we dropped the terp to be alone. I was not totally attracted to her but she asked to my friends later to see me again. During the second appointment we went to a nighclub and she adored the time we spent toghether even it was not possible to exchange more than two words.

When i met my wife, there was a terp. Later all exchanges came through a translator. She learnt english word by word (and later french) because she was interested to spend time with me.

So english language or X language is not a key for "attraction" "chemistry". It just means that many guys need it because without speaking they don't feel comfortable.
But when a woman feels good  in the silence it means that you have earned her to be comfortable with you, a necessary step for the next step : seduction, sexual tension.

[Trenchcoat]

Sorry but i had quite different results in speed dating sessions.
I don't remember exactly but my rate was something like 2 for 20. So i think that studying and practicing the art of seduction will help you to improve your scorecard. The first step you have to do is to ask their mobile number (but that's not so easy  ). Really if you cannot get few phone numbers on 80 meetings there is a problem IMHO. YOu need to improve something. And it's mainly about how you interact with girls (you can additionnaly go to the gym, get dressed better ...).
With all your respect how do you analyse this 80 meetings and zero at the end. ANd i absolutely believe you when you wrote that it was the same for many blokes. So, are men "ecucated", "skilled", "gifted", to success with women ?

2 out of 20 is not that great considering you sound and are no doubt more socially skilled than me, better talker, etc. Perhaps also you were in France doing it rather than the UK. French women seem much nicer than UK women, more feminine, more softer, easier to interact with. A lot of English girls are harsher, difficult/awkward to talk to, not so feminine - they have been brought up with the totally wrong mindset from the 70s/80s onwards, to look to a career, compete against men, etc - they often have a big long tick box of expectations the guy must measure up to (particularly at speed dating).

In any case even 2, well one might not be that much chemistry, looks, personality or decide on some other bloke there or she knows after meeting up, etc. Ok if you do a few events along with other stuff you'll no doubt meet someone, but for the rest of us for whatever reason it really is not that easy.

I did not know I was supposed to be asking for there number at speed dating events, generally the advice is they get back to you through the email system set up if interested. Some say that it gets girls backs up if you ask for there number so not to do it. Maybe you're right and I should but the girls around Bournemouth area in UK are known for being as cold as ice, they would probably tell me 'that the event organisers contact me if needed anyway' they are that cold and unenjoyable to talk to around here. Hell, I would rather try speed dating in the US, I would possibly do better there.

I think for sure, improvements can always be made, I am/have improved my wardrobe, I am going to start the gym soon, I'm not in real bad shape but can do with some tuning there. My social skills are not real bad but not really at all good either, like not real awkward, just ok-ish. Depends whom I'm with though I think FSW will suit me much more in the end as more closer my personality I think.

[Boethius]

Although I agree with your premise in general terms, English has been part of the school curriculum in Russia and Ukraine for quite a few years now, so I imagine that there are plenty of women out there who do speak English at a much better level than "where is the pen of my aunt?" or (my favourite French primer as a kid) "There is a dragon in my bed!"  The difference, of course, is that most get absolutely no chance to practise after leaving school, so their reactions to Trenchcoat will vary from "wow, a foreigner! I'd better keep away because my English is bad!" to "wow, a foreigner! He's cute - I wonder if our pheromones can talk to each other?"

Foreign languages were on the Soviet curriculum from the fifth grade since the 1950's.  English was the most popular foreign language, followed by French, and then German.

[treadmilldude]

Patagonie, I have to be honest with you. Every time I read your signature line with the name of your trip report, "Operation White Panther", I instantly think about a movie I enjoyed very much. Anchorman with Will Farrell, and the scene where the guy reaches into his private drawer and pulls out a bottle of this "Special Cologne" that no woman supposedly can resist -"Sex Panther". 

[Patagonie]

2 out of 20 is not that great considering you sound and are no doubt more socially skilled than me, better talker, etc. Perhaps also you were in France doing it rather than the UK. French women seem much nicer than UK women, more feminine, more softer, easier to interact with. A lot of English girls are harsher, difficult/awkward to talk to, not so feminine - they have been brought up with the totally wrong mindset from the 70s/80s onwards, to look to a career, compete against men, etc - they often have a big long tick box of expectations the guy must measure up to (particularly at speed dating).

In any case even 2, well one might not be that much chemistry, looks, personality or decide on some other bloke there or she knows after meeting up, etc. Ok if you do a few events along with other stuff you'll no doubt meet someone, but for the rest of us for whatever reason it really is not that easy.

I did not know I was supposed to be asking for there number at speed dating events, generally the advice is they get back to you through the email system set up if interested. Some say that it gets girls backs up if you ask for there number so not to do it. Maybe you're right and I should but the girls around Bournemouth area in UK are known for being as cold as ice, they would probably tell me 'that the event organisers contact me if needed anyway' they are that cold and unenjoyable to talk to around here. Hell, I would rather try speed dating in the US, I would possibly do better there.

I think for sure, improvements can always be made, I am/have improved my wardrobe, I am going to start the gym soon, I'm not in real bad shape but can do with some tuning there. My social skills are not real bad but not really at all good either, like not real awkward, just ok-ish. Depends whom I'm with though I think FSW will suit me much more in the end as more closer my personality I think.

Don't know the real difference between the UK and France, i should ask to my wingman because he has played both fields. But for what you are describing we have exactly the same type of girls here : A lot of French girls are harsher, difficult/awkward to talk to, not so feminine - they have been brought up with the totally wrong mindset from the 70s/80s onwards, to look to a career, compete against men, etc - they often have a big long tick box of expectations the guy must measure up to (particularly at speed dating). That fits to the french women also.

YOu are on the right track TC, don't depreciate yourself.

About speed dating, that's the mold the culture send you in, but you have to get out of this BS. That's your job to GET their phone number and to call them. I had one time a woman who refused in a speeddating to give me her phone number. I insisted but it didn't work. Finally she recontacted me and later, during one night, she explained me that her best female friend yelled at her and pushed her to contact me ASAP. That's the only exception that worked, the rest of the time it was because i got their number.
So TC phone number, your first step (PHONE NUMBER i insist, mail and facebook is just for teenagers, we are real man we play for the real life. Else if i you wait her to contact her you screw up 98% of your meetings.

[Trenchcoat]

Don't know the real difference between the UK and France, i should ask to my wingman because he has played both fields. But for what you are describing we have exactly the same type of girls here : A lot of French girls are harsher, difficult/awkward to talk to, not so feminine - they have been brought up with the totally wrong mindset from the 70s/80s onwards, to look to a career, compete against men, etc - they often have a big long tick box of expectations the guy must measure up to (particularly at speed dating). That fits to the french women also.

YOu are on the right track TC, don't depreciate yourself.

About speed dating, that's the mold the culture send you in, but you have to get out of this BS. That's your job to GET their phone number and to call them. I had one time a woman who refused in a speeddating to give me her phone number. I insisted but it didn't work. Finally she recontacted me and later, during one night, she explained me that her best female friend yelled at her and pushed her to contact me ASAP. That's the only exception that worked, the rest of the time it was because i got their number.
So TC phone number, your first step (PHONE NUMBER i insist, mail and facebook is just for teenagers, we are real man we play for the real life. Else if i you wait her to contact her you screw up 98% of your meetings.

Think you're right, from now on I will phone number all girls

Shame that French society is a bit that way too, just makes life so unpleasant for all I think, just messes everything up. Seems ridiculous that perhaps half a nations young female population is no good for dating/relationships as a result, a terrible waste.When I was over in France last year the girls came across as more softer than over here, place the change in your had for example, in Ukraine they just place change ion the counter in shops, lol. Rarely like the grocery stores in Ukraine.

[ML]

Will read the trip report when I can, but you state 'trustable agency' but they sent a married woman along to you to make up the numbers did they not? Worked out for you in the end as no one would have predicted that an insincere move on their/her part would turn good for you (and apparently her also). Essentially though you 'lucked out' in happening to stray across a girl you liked/was chemistry no doubt as she left her husband on a a WMVM situation. This is no doubt how it happens on the WMVM approach, some luck out, others, most perhaps, are more often out of luck, as Faux Pas points out this method for many can go on for years & years without fruitful success. To my mind it is like asking oneself, 'How many women in a population of a City would I have chemistry with?' If I were to go there I would likely stray across some of them, particularly if I stayed long enough. Picking them out through letter writing is very random (I've learnt photo's don't convey chemistry) though (telephone or Skype) may reduce this randomness, but I could quite easily bring up a lot of girl time & again that are not the ones I have chemistry with, I could miss the ones I have chemistry with time and again with the WMVM approach, unless I off course luck out. So essentially a WMVM approach would be like lucky dip I may eventually pull the prize out or I may keep pulling out the duds, for most men it appears from what FP says it is they just keep pulling out the duds, luck does not shine on them.

The choice then as I see it is play it on chance on a WMVM approach and enjoy the journey if that is the sort off journey you enjoy. For FP apparently that sort of journey did not appeal, or do the WMVO approach and enjoy one girl's company for the whole visit/holiday. Odds are on the WMVO option if you skyped a few types and she was thrilled that you were coming you will at least get someone near the mark, as I found no guarantees its someone on the mark where there is chemistry, she may just be a people meeting person, holiday whore, up for some foreigner to pay for her to eat out, or just as unaware as you are if there is any real chemistry.

I only meet one girl second trip but that was more of what could have amounted to  a visit many visit, a bit like speed dating, but the time lasting more like an hour or longer for each interview rather than the 3 min or whatever. Its ok, but your under your own steam a lot, 'driving the bus' (2tallbill's or BillyB term I can't remember which) probably not a real bad situation but meeting one girl after another that there is not a match for can no doubt be dispiriting at times until, if, you get to the right one. Smoother the other way, going out to meet a girl that you should at least get on well with as demonstrated through Skype sessions I guess, but having a good idea about back ups just in case. End of the day it whichever process suits, I think Faux Pas is right though in VO being the better path, not to say its guaranteed success but with skype these days its probably given this method the advantage and at least you'll likely meet a girl you can can along with.

Jezz Trench . . . I see you are a total lost cause when it come to logic.

You have written the exact opposite of the true advantages/disadvantages of the VM vs VO situation.

So it really proves that we guys get it fixed in our mind which is the best way to go (based presumably on our personality and skill sets) and then use the most twisted logic possible to justify our reasons.

And just to make it clear, I am joining the group that contends there is no 'correct' way to do this.

But still it is painful to see the outright falsehoods told about the method that a person has chosen not to follow.

[msmobyone]

What Patagonie is referring to is pheromones and yes, they play a huge role in male/female integration, procreation and sexuality. You want proof? Have you ever met a girl that was a 9 but you just weren't that attracted to her or a woman that was a 7 but you HAD to have her?

This whole WMVM/WOVO/WMVO debate has gotten comical. I think everyone admits that chemistry can best be evaluated IN PERSON. Therefore what's the point in investing a lot of time in getting to know a woman through a WOVO strategy?! Personally, I'd rather minimally get to know 10 women via electronic correspondence and subsequently in person meeting than dedicating a lot of energy and time to someone who I spend a lot of time and energy corresponding with for months but yet still don't know if I'll have true chemistry with in person.

Hi GC

Frankly, I have yet to meet a FSU who's 'odour' / or lack of ....depending on your 'thang'  put me off ...

As you point out.. it - could have been a killer..may be I don't have a sensitive snoze ?))) 

[2tallbill]

Dating is a lot like duck, duck, goose. Sometimes you gotta run!