Ukraine-The Future

[AkMike]

Kremlin's shuck and jive AKA propaganda.

 They're even trying to recycle the pictures of the UN helicopters again! (The ones that were taken in Africa a few years ago) Once again pretty lame even for them.

[Chelseaboy]

ghost of moon goddess,

                                   Never let the facts get in the way of the pro=Russian fantasists on here.

Regarding a country crawling with Neo Nazis,well that would be Russia ,with 50,000-70,000 of them inhabiting that lovely country,including some of Putlers biker buddies who were among the first to enter Crimea after it was stolen from Ukraine

Yep,let the Russian government funded RTS fanboys/girls on here keep believing their pro-Russian/anti everywhere else fantasies.

[Anotherkiwi]

How come, in the country crawling with 'Banderists' and 'Neo Nazis', Vadim Rabinovich (a Ukrainian Jewish candidate for Ukraine's presidential election) outpolls the Right Sector and Svoboda candidates in taking 2.25 percent of the vote, while the latter two candidates receive only 1,86 percent, collectively?

It would seem that voters in Ukraine had real freedom of choice in this election - an extremely scary thought for some of those further east.  It's just a pity that so many in eastern Ukraine were denied this freedom by people who do NOT have the best interests of Ukraine at heart.
 
ghost, what's the general feeling that you get about the eastern regions?  Although I would guess that people in Kyiv want the whole country to remain as one, do you hear anything about giving these areas greater autonomy (perhaps similar to what Crimea had)?

[AkMike]

There were some polls taken in the last year or two about this area splitting off. IIRC only 25-30% thought it was a good idea.

 Yet once again it's the silent majority that's afraid to step up to the plate and the vocal minority gets their 2 kopeks in the news.

[lordtiberius]

They have no guns.  The Kiev politicians oppose this.

[Muzh]

How come, in the country crawling with 'Banderists' and 'Neo Nazis', Vadim Rabinovich (a Ukrainian Jewish candidate for Ukraine's presidential election) outpolls the Right Sector and Svoboda candidates in taking 2.25 percent of the vote, while the latter two candidates receive only 1,86 percent, collectively?

Most probably the FSB virus intended to hack the CEC and "reveal" that Yarosh won the presidency malfunction. 

[JayH]

 Another interesting postive article to read !!!!

Quoting
"on it in the next few years. With European support, Ukraine could compare favourably. And, if such an initiative marks the beginning of a growth policy that Europe so badly needs, by saving Ukraine Europe would also be saving itself."

• George Soros is Chairman of Soros Fund Management and the author of The Tragedy of the European Union

How the EU can save Ukraine

Offering free political risk insurance to those who invest in or do business with Ukraine is a way of countering the threat of Putin's Russia, writes George Soros

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/29/how-eu-can-save-ukraine-political-risk-insurance

[lordtiberius]

So we are on the side of George Soros? Great.

[Faux Pas]

So we are on the side of George Soros? Great.

Politics makes strange bedfellows. The enemy of my enemy is my friend sorta thing

[lordtiberius]

Maybe now is the time to invest in Ukraine.  I wouldn't do Eastern Ukraine but Central and West Ukraine, IT outsourcing, why not?

[krimster2]

been there, done that, have the t-shirt

I created an outsourcing software development company in Ukraine, the worst part was living there for 3 years, I totally understand why everyone wants to leave Ukraine, I did...

Absolutely  the crappiest place to live a Westerner could ever imagine, on a par with slums in any 3rd world country, all because of the attitudes and behavior of the people there.  This latest farce is laughable, the equivalent of ghetto dwellers from the Bronx going to war against ghetto dwellers of Trenton, NJ over  non-existent “cultural differences”. 

This is NOT the time to invest in Ukraine, banking, rule of law, civil order, crime, rampant corruption are just a few of the issues that negate whatever chance of profit you might have, oh and don’t forget that you’re not legally allowed to repatriate your profits, so what goes into Ukraine has to stay in Ukraine, and of course the Red Army might appear at your doorstep and declare you a foreign enemy of the Russian people

I left, I haven’t been back, and I never will go back, if I had stayed I would be dead now and that’s a fact...

Ukraine, the future? ha,ha,ha,ha  just hope the people don’t have to resort to cannibalism like they did in the 1930‘s

[cc3]

Absolutely  the crappiest place to live a Westerner could ever imagine, on a par with slums in any 3rd world country, all because of the attitudes and behavior of the people there.   

You are so wrong. I lived in Libya for three years. That was, most absolutely, the worst place, in the world, for westerners. I am engaged to a Ukrainian; have spent many months with her in east, south and west Ukraine, and will happily take up residence with her in Lviv. I have had it with the 'American way of living'...greedy, corrupt politicians and political power blocks, i.e., government unions, Wall Street lobbyists, demographically aberrant identity groups (homosexuals, transgenders, pedophiles, animal fetishists) are taking over the country due to the lack of involvement in governance by the mainstream populace. Before they know it, the mainstream will be in legal and political shackles placed on it by the rabid fringe elements of our society.

[krimster2]

“...greedy, corrupt politicians...”
Yes, thank heavens that there aren’t any of those in Ukraine, LMFAO

Yes, a bit of hyperbole on my part, Libya, and North Korea would be worst than Ukraine, however these are not places I would ever go voluntarily and attempt to start a business, I’m not that crazy...

Lviv is a bit nicer than most of Ukraine, probably due to the fact that it didn’t officially become part of the Soviet Union until 1946, it’s still freakin Ukrainian but just not as much, I can’t say what it’s like to live there, as I’ve only been a tourist.  Moy dom was Krim baby and is now occupied territory

“demographically aberrant identity groups (homosexuals, transgenders, pedophiles, animal fetishists) are taking over the country”

really, you think  pedophiles and animal fetishists are “taking over the country”?
which country are you talking about, cause it sure as hell ain’t the one I’m living in, this sounds like a bad crystal meth induced paranoiac fantasy, has your life been directly impeded by wall street lobbyists, did they interfere with operating your hedge fund or something?  As detestable as they are, I don’t know of a single soul who can make this claim.   Live in Ukraine and you’ll have actual real problems that will directly effect your quality of life, like trying to receive mail without it being stolen, garbage collection or why bother collecting it, electric power, water, gas (good thing Ukraine doesn’t control the air), banking and anything at all regarding money, plus bad roads, drunks, counterfeit medications and bad hospitals and doctors, and a gazillion other “real, actual freakin’ problems”, nothing imaginary like gay animal fetishists in UFOs putting flouride in our toothpaste kind of problems (it could happen and I would be against it of course!), but incinerators that burn plastic next to your house that makes your eyes water and your lungs gasp for air and nothing you can do about it kind of problems, having to put bars on your windows kind of problems, can you see the difference???  If not, you will, and good luck on your safe return...


 

[JayH]

Krim-- what years were you there? What city/area?

[krimster2]

hello,
   I lived in Sevastopol between the Zum market and Chersonese from 2004 until 2007 when I came to my senses and moved to Texas, before that it was Silicon Valley. 

[Wayne]

Krimster, were you married to someone in Crimea? Did you have any positive experiences there?

[cc3]

@ krimster2. "America's Next Civil Rights Frontier". Time's latest cover:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/transgender-actress-laverne-cox-makes-time-cover-this-is-who-i-am/

...further:

http://www.educationviews.org/pedophilia-rights-next-civil-rights-battle/

...and even further:

http://vividrandomexistence.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/zoosexual-rights/

[krimster2]

Wayne,

Yup, been married 15 years now to a woman from Sevastopol, we met in Kiev in 1998 were married in 1999.

Positive experiences living there, well of course there were some, the natural environment was very stimulating, we lived about 300 meters from the beach on the “Chorny Moira” (Black Sea), so I’d do my morning jog along the beach and end up in Chersonese and do a little “prospecting” which would sometimes produce some historical pay dirt, I found about 80 ancient coins in total, and a huge amount of WWII artifacts. 

The human environment was not so nice, I was physically attacked twice for the crime of being an American, got sick of people asking to borrow (or give them) money, neighbors would dump their garbage in the street virtually at my door, vicious dogs running freely and attacking people with no consequence to the owners, electricity and gas were sometimes rationed, once the whole town of Sevastopol had no water for two days.  You home had to have bars on the windows and your door had to have steel plates and heavy hinges inside.  You couldn’t park your car in the street in front of your home over night or it would be stolen or the tires/battery stolen, go shopping and a clerk will follow you to make sure you don’t steal something, even standing in a line will result in people pushing and shoving each other to get to the front of the line,  and on and on and on ad nauseum, nah, I don’t miss it one bit.


 

[krimster2]

CC3 (Command, Control, Communication?)

<sarcasm>Well gee, as we all know they can’t put something on the internet unless it’s true</sarcasm>, so I guess the sources you provided clearly show that transgenderistic zoophiles will soon be  dominating our culture and Vladimir Putin was right about the West being a corrupt and decadent culture!

My response, so what?  If someone’s gay or transgender, I say “live and let live”, and really their lifestyle choices have no effect on me at all or mine on them, foolish me, I actually believed the part about America being “the land of the free”, I didn’t read the fine print that said, “unless you’re gay or transgender”.  The article’s claims about zoophiles and pedophiles is laughable, so a couple of psychiatrists “said something in their defense”, so what, it’s a long, long way from that to official policy, again their actions have no relevant effects on my life, current law protects my children, and of course so do I!  See, this ain’t Russia, where there’s just one official viewpoint and no tolerance for anything or anyone else.  So let’s just say the question of  Gilligan’s Island Mary Anne vrs Ginger comes up, and you happen to be overwhelmingly a Ginger man, and someone else prefers Mary Anne, you still get to like Ginger, why can’t you let the other fellow like MaryAnne???

[Wayne]

I see crime, both petty and organized, as a big problem in Crimea. There are too many unemployed/under employed and homeless. Opening casinos in Yalta will bring more crime.
 
You see people trying to sell things on the street and just plain beggars. You can go to a beautiful beach or nature area and find piles of trash. It makes me sick!
 
Stray dogs and cats seem to be everywhere. Piles of dog shit are discusting!
 
If Russia wants to do something, they should hire these people to clean everything outside, and common entries to buildings. Get a system for pet registration, and round up all the strays. Repair all the roads and sidewalks. Install and operate many public restrooms.

[krimster2]

Wayne,
   What you say is true, you see it as a problem, because you look at it with “Western Eyes”, but most of the locals don’t have this perspective.  I remember once when one of my neighbors a college professor traveled to Germany for the first time and when he returned he told me how astonished he was to see such a clean environment, but to most Ukrainians a garbage filled street is just normal and nothing to be upset about, so even leaving garbage on the beach or at a national monument is acceptable to many people. This lack of responsibility over “common areas” has deep roots in the Soviet Psyche and IMHO is a major contributor for Ukraine/Russian uncivil behavior.

BTW, if you’re in Crimea right now, I assume you know enough to keep a very, very low profile!!

[Wayne]

Another thing you will notice is a lot of graffiti. Some of it is crap, but some approaches artist quality. Signs are nailed up on every pole.
 
Where we live in US, years ago they put a ten cent deposit law on bottles and cans and it has made a big difference.
 
It they had trash receptacles and payed someone to haul the trash away I think people would start using them.

[krimster2]

ukraine is universally a disordered mess, look at any particular detail there and you’ll see the same thing over and over again, some broken down jalopy of a country that people are still trying to ride on, it needs a lot more fixing than a few trash receptacles.

the main industry of Ukraine is theft, from Yanukovych down to the director of every miniscule state property, everyone’s on the take, nearly every business has to pay protection “krisha” money as well, corruption, corruption everywhere.  If you work as a “director” for any branch of any local or state government in Ukraine, then controlling that resource is the same as owning it, and you can “extract rent” from it.  You’re the director of a museum, well start charging admission and put the money in your pocket, charge tourists for each photo they take and put the money in your other pocket, and do this for each farm, school, hospital, port, warehouse, police station, airport, train station, tourist attraction, etc.  Let’s say you were appointed by someone from Kiev to be the lead city administrator of a major city  (this means you have to give a percentage of your take back to whoever appointed you), well you take the money that was allocated for garbage collection or central heating and you put it into your private account, why not, everyone else does it, you’d be a pridorik not to, not to mention the fact that the people who put you in your position would fire you and get someone else who will “follow the code” if you didn’t steal.
As long as this continues, and it is, then Ukraine will always have no real future...

[cc3]

"See, this ain’t Russia, where there’s just one official viewpoint and no tolerance for anything or anyone else." No, this ain't [sic] Russia. This is Ukraine, but with all of its faults and foibles I believe it has a lot more potential for normalizing than Russia has (especially western and central Ukraine; I no longer give a crap about the irrational Donbass, where I have spent most of my months in UA). I have been traveling throughout Europe, mostly western, for many decades and, while a total disbeliever of its 'benign' socialistic policies, I feel more at peace living there than in the US, and I live in one of the best states of the US, Colorado. Maybe it's because I like European beer better than mass produced American industrial beer (although US craft breweries are the best in the world...but two to three times the cost of comparable European beers). Also, typically American, I am addicted to American football, but, with internet streaming, I don't need to be in the US to watch it.

So, I will gut it out in the pleasant, almost non-Ukrainian city of Lviv, while my fiancee completes her university work. Then we will decide where the future looks most advantageous, especially for her. It could be in Ukraine, under the new regime, orienting the country toward western Europe, in western Europe, or back in the US.

[Wayne]

You know in USA we have elected officials all the way from the President down to the local drain commisioner. Every level of government has elected officials. The federal government has certain powers, but the states also have a lot of powers.
 
It looks like Ukraine needs to make some basic changes to the way their system operates.