Ukraine is losing the war

[AC]

Second rate still trumps third rate candy store.

A much better investment for a 2nd rate nation like Russia would be to invest in their own infrastructure and economy rather then wasting the Billions they've been wasting invading a neighbor.

[Anotherkiwi]

Second rate still trumps third rate candy store.

Be still my heart!  "Roshen" is third rate?  There is a box (bought here, by the way) sitting in my pantry, just waiting to be opened on a very special occasion.

Besides which, Poroshenko has always been referred to (even by Russians) as the chocolate "King."  Kings just don't do "third rate!" 

[Steamer]

A much better investment for a 2nd rate nation like Russia would be to invest in their own infrastructure and economy rather then wasting the Billions they've been wasting invading a neighbor.

I have been saying the same thing about US foreign policy.

[cc3]

Putin and his cronies run a second rate oligarchy, rather than a nation.

"A second rate oligarchy"...but...a first rate kleptocracy! 

[AkMike]

Russia is no different than Ukraine.  They're both basket cases, have been for over a century, and it won't change any time soon.  The only difference is, Russia still has nukes.

And doesn't see any reason the change the status quo.

[The Natural]

That was a play on the title of a couple of active threads.  I withdraw that comment, and extend my apology. 

And With that, you totally redeem yourself  Alright, we're friends again. I admit, I should not let personal insults get to me, will work on that. And if I misunderstood Your position, sorry about that.

Uh...before we shake hands I have a question.  Your support for Putin seemingly is based on reasons far more than your wife's Crimean homeland.   I assume you identify with Putin's values and style (and we all know you look like Putin).   True?  I do see some parallels between Putin's near totalitarian rule and Hitler's totalitarianism with regard to cultural activities and nationalism.   If you disagree and believe Putinism is much different, I would like to read your explanation.

Yes, you're right. It's more than that my wife being Crimean. It's about what I consider right and wrong. As we both know, the Putin-haters are in a majority here, so we are politically disagreeing. That's alright, but when People, and even worse, world leaders, make comprarisons between Putin and Hitler, it gets so ridiculous that it's not even provokative.

Sure many Things are not right in Russia, many Things should change. But so what? Why is this a business of us westerners? Let the Russian Public decide for themselves how they want Things to be. If anything, Putin listens to the people, that's why he's so popular.
He stands up for Russia when Washington works for regime change and making Russia too one of their lapdogs.

Why all this talk only about Putin, though? He's not alone. He's got many other powerful and Bright People around him. Sergey Lavrov is easily the best Foreign minister in politics today. I admire him but don't look like him.

So I far from view Putin as a totalitarian ruler. He's at the top because he fears the People and listen to them. Most Russians are for example agains homosexual propaganda. So is the Ortodox Church. I'm pretty sure if Putin went against that and started praising the homosexual lifestyle as leaders in the west do, he'd be replaced pretty quickly.

[Muzh]

Putin and his cronies run a second rate oligarchy, rather than a nation.

Funny you mention that. 


Russia Awards Lucrative Crimea Bridge Contract to Putin's Crony

http://news.vice.com/article/russia-awards-lucrative-crimea-bridge-contract-to-putins-crony?utm_source=vicenewsemail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=News_EN&utm_campaign=VICE%20News

[AkMike]

I bet he get's paid up front then has massive cost over runs costing many times more than the projected total. The end result may hold foot traffic but will fail under normal freight loads.

[andrewfi]

Be still my heart!  "Roshen" is third rate?  There is a box (bought here, by the way) sitting in my pantry, just waiting to be opened on a very special occasion.

Besides which, Poroshenko has always been referred to (even by Russians) as the chocolate "King."  Kings just don't do "third rate!" 

The meaning is derogatory. A chocolate king is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

[jone]

No, dear Andrew,

The name was given as an honorific, like a favorite uncle.  It was an affectionate name given to Poroshenko prior to his involvement with politics that acknowledged his business acumen.   When I lived in Ukraine and Russia he was well known and respected.

Perhaps never having set foot in Ukraine, it escaped you. You can have your opinion, but lacking direct experience to back it up, perhaps your opinion is like a chocolate teapot?  It melts away in the face of a little heat.

[Muzh]

No, dear Andrew,

The name was given as an honorific, like a favorite uncle.  It was an affectionate name given to Poroshenko prior to his involvement with politics that acknowledged his business acumen.   When I lived in Ukraine and Russia he was well known and respected.

Perhaps never having set foot in Ukraine, it escaped you. You can have your opinion, but lacking direct experience to back it up, perhaps your opinion is like a chocolate teapot?  It melts away in the face of a little heat.

Hey, that was damned good!

[Изумруд]

Perhaps never having set foot in Ukraine, it escaped you. You can have your opinion, but lacking direct experience to back it up, perhaps your opinion is like a chocolate teapot?  It melts away in the face of a little heat.

A little bit like his 'impartiality' in this conflict.

[Gator]

Sergey Lavrov is easily the best Foreign minister in politics today. I admire him but don't look like him.

Maybe; Kerry does not impress me.  Lavrov reminds me of Iran, a country where lying is the norm.  Iranians naturally admire the best liars even though they know they are lying.     

So I far from view Putin as a totalitarian ruler.

 

To say "far from totalitarianism" is incorrect  as Putin's rule incorporates some key elements of totalitarianism such as personality cult, limits on pluralism, and state controlled media.   

Unlike Nazi Germany, Putin's Russia is not totalitarian, and I am not sure Putin would want such.  One of the defining features of a totalitarianism is low corruption, and without corruption Putin and his cronies could not skim billions from the government nor seize wealth from those who have fallen out of favor.      

Many contend that Putin's style deservers its own name, Putinism.  From Wiki:
_______________________

"The US economist Richard W. Rahn (September 2007) called Putinism "a Russian nationalistic authoritarian form of government that pretends to be a free market democracy", and which "owes more of its lineage to fascism than communism"; noting that "Putinism depended on the Russian economy growing rapidly enough that most people had rising standards of living and, in exchange, were willing to put up with the existing soft repression", he predicted [in 2007] that "as Russia's economic fortunes changed, Putinism was likely to become more repressive."
_______________________

He's at the top because he fears the People and listen to them. Most Russians are for example agains homosexual propaganda. So is the Ortodox Church. I'm pretty sure if Putin went against that and started praising the homosexual lifestyle as leaders in the west do, he'd be replaced pretty quickly.

Homosexuality  is the wrong example to demonstrate Putinism differs from Nazism.  At least Putin is not gassing the gays. 

When you say "he'd be replaced pretty quickly," Putin will never relinquish his power and authority because his successors would imprison him.   Yeltsin cut a deal with Putin to avoid prosecution, and I question whether Putin can find such a replacement.

[Doll]

Lavrov reminds me of Iran,

[Gator]

Ooooh that smell
Can't you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of death surrounds you
.......Lynyrd Skynyrd


Not drugs but war, real war, the war in Ukraine is about to escalate to major levels based on the news today:

1.  The rebels want to add 100,000 men to their army, in response to Kiev's plans to increase to 200,000 men:    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31089142

[This raises the question whether 100,000 Russian soldiers will volunteer to go to Ukraine.]


2.  Obama is shifting his policy about sending lethal weapons to Ukraine.   He says Ukraine needs strong defensive weapons such as anti-armor, radar to locate Russian artillery and rockets, drones, etc. 
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/02/politics/us-ukraine-lethal-aid/index.html


3.  Obama's military aid would be given through NATO, and Merkel  today said Germany would not give weapons to Ukraine, preferring diplomatic solutions.   http://news.yahoo.com/merkel-germany-wont-weapons-ukraine-favors-talks-130126884.html

[jone]

Here's Mr. Stick
And here's Mrs. Carrot.

[BillyB]

2.  Obama is shifting his policy about sending lethal weapons to Ukraine.   He says Ukraine needs strong defensive weapons such as anti-armor, radar to locate Russian artillery and rockets, drones, etc. 

Obama is "considering". Many in his administration are the ones recommending helping Ukraine with lethal weapons. Both Obama and Putin have felt pressure from others in government to escalate things. Increasing the value of the aid is also being considered.


"On Monday, several former U.S. diplomatic and military officials released a report calling on the White House and Congress to give Ukraine $3 billion in military assistance over the next three years."


Give Ukraine Weapons damn it.


ANDREWFI!!! Do you still think the rebels are getting their clothing at the Army surplus store and getting their weapons from raiding armories?

[andrewfi]

Jone, whoever you may be, what might have been in the past is certainly not true today. Go catch up there's a dear fellow.


BillyB, these days the guys are often much better equipped, however recruits are still asked to supply much of their own kit, so yes, as I wrote at the time, they buy it at markets.
There are significant differences between the cheap stuff bought at a market and the 'real thing' for example, proper battledress is treated with flame retardents or made with flame inhibiting fabrics. That's not the case with market bought stuff. Of course to the naked eye there may be little difference.


The Voentorg has been of great help for the rebel fighters as the result of public appeals in Russia, for months there were appeals for winter cammo gear but it looks like not a lot has been provided yet.

[jone]

Sorry, what was that?  Catching up on the gravy futures here and was distracted.

Oh, Andrew, once again you are totally out of your league.  You have never been to Ukraine so you would not know what people are saying on the ground.  It would be like me trying to evaluate the streetspeak in Estonia.  I would have no clue because I have never been to Estonia.

There has been no change in the fact that Poroshenko was the first Ukrainian leader elected by a majority.  All previous Ukrainian leaders were elected by a plurality.  The way he earned his nickname (or honorific) was never in dispute and the timing predated the election. So, if in your personal view, Poroshenko's nickname has now morphed into a different connotation from the meaning it held when he was elected, it is simply your opinion, created at your keyboard, and not a fact.  An opinion, I might add, that holds little value because you have no personal interaction with every day Ukrainians. 

[Larry1]

ANDREWFI!!! Do you still think the rebels are getting their clothing at the Army surplus store and getting their weapons from raiding armories?

BillyB, these days the guys are often much better equipped, however recruits are still asked to supply much of their own kit, so yes, as I wrote at the time, they buy it at markets.
There are significant differences between the cheap stuff bought at a market and the 'real thing' for example, proper battledress is treated with flame retardents or made with flame inhibiting fabrics. That's not the case with market bought stuff. Of course to the naked eye there may be little difference.


The Voentorg has been of great help for the rebel fighters as the result of public appeals in Russia, for months there were appeals for winter cammo gear but it looks like not a lot has been provided yet.

As you will notice by reading above, BillyB asked if Andrewfi thought the rebels are:

1) getting their clothing at military surplus stores, and
2) getting their weapons from raiding Ukrainian Army armories

You will notice that Andrewfi responded to the first of these and not the second. I doubt that was an oversight.  There just weren't the number of captured weapons in rebel-held territory that are currently in use by the rebels, not to mention ammunition. The rebels are being supplied with Russian weapons, ammunition, and equipment. And the Russian government is lying about this, just as it lied about the presence of Russian troops in Crimea before its, err, Anschluss with Russia.

[Doll]

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Hundreds-of-Demonstrators-Attack-Ukrainian-Presidents-Office-20150203-0022.html
Hundreds of Demonstrators Attack Ukrainian President's Office

[Doll]

[Doll]

[bagalia]

Be still my heart!  "Roshen" is third rate?  There is a box (bought here, by the way) sitting in my pantry, just waiting to be opened on a very special occasion.

Besides which, Poroshenko has always been referred to (even by Russians) as the chocolate "King."  Kings just don't do "third rate!" 

Never heard the chocolate king. Ukrainians like to call him chocolate bunny though not as much as before. Since he won the election he has another cute nickname that has to do with his winning on the first round but I cannot translate it properly.

[Boethius]

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Hundreds-of-Demonstrators-Attack-Ukrainian-Presidents-Office-20150203-0022.html
Hundreds of Demonstrators Attack Ukrainian President's Office

There are allegations that demonstration was organized by a now arrested traitor.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/sbu-says-it-caught-traitor-preventing-terrorist-attack-planned-for-parliament-on-feb-5-379489.html