Type of Work I can do that will satisfy a FSW enough.

[Trenchcoat]

So been thinking about what to do in the future, I'll likely soon be moving in from my job and to be honest the job might not give women the idea that I am ambitious, it would likely make me think I'm lazy. As Krim pointed out looking lazy/slack to a FSW is not a good place to be. The article here highlights what women tend to think on this front and is probably somewhat accurate I guess:

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10134859/amp/Australian-single-women-reveal-REALLY-care-man-does-living.html

So for me I guess I need something that fulfills three aspects as I see it:

1). A form of business that doesn't make look slack but busy.

2). A business that makes me look ambitious/work ethic.

3). A business that makes has a ladder of progression to a life goal.

Think that's about it. Main thing I think is something that looks like I'm actually doing something, not just sitting back and waiting for rental income to come in and being leisurely on it. I'm thinking that might upset many woman's feeling for a guy who is doing things 'a man on a mission' as I believe many FSW say. So kind of need something that justifies my need in the relationship, something that looks like I am doing stuff, not necessarily all the time but enough to look significant.

For me while I want to check out a few different business ideas, even hobbies that may be turned into business ventures. I think I am best of mainly sticking to my area of long term experience and expertise in property is likely the most appropriate for me. I intend to expand in property, not as a big Landlord (and that market has become difficult in the UK due to increased regulation) but further property abroad, as like in Corfu. I figure that if I buy a property to renovate, not too run down but cosmetic stuff, etc then that could be what I justify what I do, since it kind of would be.

I wouldn't of course oversell it to a woman, better I think to have it on a slow burn and let it be known that it takes time. The goal being to work up slowing to bigger and better property and the money from rental income/Airbnb funding that as well as living off it. So in that way I could take time off and do work as and when so long as I put in work on a reasonably consistent basis I think I will have all bases covered on the man on a mission, ambitious, work oriented, not too lazy stuff. So long as I make it clear that it's not a quick overnight thing but good things take time then I'm thinking it should satisfy her (slightly dependant on the woman I guess). At the same time also not falling into the trap off always being at work/work becoming all consuming and so the woman feeling disconnected/myself isolated from family.

Also the kind of stuff you can drop and go away etc for a bit without being tied down.

I reckon that would do it, would be interested to hear if others here think it would be a goer also?

[Steven1971]

My dad has two properties in Spain. They are both in theory for sale.The past 18 months they have been squatted and the legal process to get then back is a nightmare. Be very careful having property abroad if you are going to be away for a significant period of time.

Don't worry about what a woman thinks about what you do. If she doesn't approve she isn't the right one. I've got misgivings about you quiting stable employment, however low your income from it, but if you are going to do so you need less talk and more action regarding what you will do instead.

[Steven1971]

I'm struggling to see how you would raise the money to buy a property abroad. How are you going to square that circle? Take out a mortgage on your British property? If you do so that reduces your income which you would be dependent on until you rent out your Corfu property.  You would also need to renovate at a quicker pace than at home.

[Trenchcoat]

I'm struggling to see how you would raise the money to buy a property abroad. How are you going to square that circle? Take out a mortgage on your British property? If you do so that reduces your income which you would be dependent on until you rent out your Corfu property.  You would also need to renovate at a quicker pace than at home.

Could be a mortgage but could also be a bank loan. A bank loan would be easier and less fuss to obtain than a mortgage though repayments slightly higher over a shorter time period. In theory not usually supposed to buy property but if only £40-50k it's doable and can put it down as home improvement. At the moment I'm doing my house conversion a few days each week, i.e part time. So if the whole week available stuff could progress quicker although buying stuff for refurbishment & food, living expenses would be a little squeezed. So a bit of money aside to dip into plus the usual credit card as a fallback would probably go on. Once done though (hopefully quicker than current situation) then that could bring in extra money.

[krimster2]

Trench WTF?

Okey Dokey, I'll play along
some idears

1. licensed Real estate salesman/broker

2. self-published writer and photagrapher of unique Historical British Architecture in the Midlands
Jeez Louise, ya got Rochdale, Manchester, Birmingham, etc  gazillions of residential and industrial artifacts from the 19th century in various "states of repose"

3. if ya had a workshop, you could buy old furniture from estate sales and refinish and sell for profit and advertise your services to the Tory class so they hire ya to repair family heirlooms earned at the expense of the workin class
if ya really want to increase sales, put "by appointment to his Magesty" on your web site

4. years ago, I bought my oldest daughter a stained glass window kit and we made a multi-color Cat themed window.  for $1000 you could get all the tools you need, to do it professionally and there's a lot of modern ways to stream-line the custom made window process using programs on your PC so you could make custom stained-glass and choose size and design

5. for less than a $600 I put together a propane powered smelting furnace so I could cast jewelry from raw metal, you could do that and/or make bronze statues that copied period designs
bronze only costs a couple of bucks per pound, or for you a couple of pounds per pound (LOL)

there, there's 5 idears for you

[Trenchcoat]

Trench WTF?

Okey Dokey, I'll play along
some idears

1. licensed Real estate salesman/broker

2. self-published writer and photagrapher of unique Historical British Architecture in the Midlands
Jeez Louise, ya got Rochdale, Manchester, Birmingham, etc  gazillions of residential and industrial artifacts from the 19th century in various "states of repose"

3. if ya had a workshop, you could buy old furniture from estate sales and refinish and sell for profit and advertise your services to the Tory class so they hire ya to repair family heirlooms earned at the expense of the workin class
if ya really want to increase sales, put "by appointment to his Magesty" on your web site

4. years ago, I bought my oldest daughter a stained glass window kit and we made a multi-color Cat themed window.  for $1000 you could get all the tools you need, to do it professionally and there's a lot of modern ways to stream-line the custom made window process using programs on your PC so you could make custom stained-glass and choose size and design

5. for less than a $600 I put together a propane powered smelting furnace so I could cast jewelry from raw metal, you could do that and/or make bronze statues that copied period designs
bronze only costs a couple of bucks per pound, or for you a couple of pounds per pound (LOL)

there, there's 5 idears for you

Interesting ideas Krim, but what about my property idea do you think that would go down ok with FSW?

[Trenchcoat]

My dad has two properties in Spain. They are both in theory for sale.The past 18 months they have been squatted and the legal process to get then back is a nightmare. Be very careful having property abroad if you are going to be away for a significant period of time.

Don't worry about what a woman thinks about what you do. If she doesn't approve she isn't the right one. I've got misgivings about you quiting stable employment, however low your income from it, but if you are going to do so you need less talk and more action regarding what you will do instead.

I've kind of been a little so, so about that also, I definitely need to have other stuff sorted before I chuck it in. I can kind of keep the door open a little on the job thereafter but it could be a bit off fuss trying to get back in if needs be. On the other hand I'm not going to move on unless I do but need to be realistic as to what can generate money and what may be fairytale thinking. While I'm looking to get rental income it's not always judged quite the same as employment income.

With the what the girl thinks, I get what you mean but at the same time think it can be a bit cliche. A lot of women can be very much status snobs I think, not necessarily all but very many so ignoring it too much may not be helping me. A guy who is above attractive in looks, good socially, gym bod can probably get women without worrying too much about that stuff, but for the everyday guy not looking too lame in terms of what women regard as worthy probably might be worth considering though I could be wrong I guess.

That's interesting info about the squatting stuff Stephen, I never thought of that, as you know it became illegal here a number of years ago now. Spain I doubt I would go, Greece isn't too bad so long as it's not vacant too long, taken care off. I think as long as I secure it well and put stuff up and be careful not to be away too long/Airbnb it would probably be ok but handy to know that I should be careful about leaving it alone too long. Sorry to hear about your father having to deal with that it must be a real pain to have to go through just kind of glad we no longer have squatters rights for residential property here no more a lot less problems since they got rid of that one I think.

[krimster2]

Q: and what do you do for a living tovarisch?
A: I rent out a room in my flat....

you'll get all the chicks with that, fer sure
good choice!!

when I wuz a little "nipper" back in the day
I went to a county fair in Virginia

I saw a chicken playing a toy piano in a glass booth
you put a quarter (a shilling sized coin) into a slot and twisted it
a little mechanism powered by a music box looking device
dropped kernels of dried corn on a little keyboard
and the chicken pecked them and made a musical note

by controlling the rate and which keys the corn fell on, the chicken could play a tune
I went through a lot of quarters that day

if you were to duplicate that and use a little keyboard synthesizer that let you switch instruments
then you could scale it up and make a chicken orchestra with multiple chicken synthesizers

do road shows all across Europa
you'd be famous
and you'd have all the pooty-tang you can dream of

[Trenchcoat]

Q: and what do you do for a living tovarisch?
A: I rent out a room in my flat....

No I mean if I say I renovate property working my way up the property ladder?

[krimster2]

still tryin to get somethin for nothin, eh me lad?
a passive income, ain't a profession or a career
it's just a daydream you have

honestly, I'd go with the chickens
if things don't work out, you can always eat 'em

your real question, "is not making any changes in my life sufficient to put me on the road to success?"
the answer is, "has it so far?"

[Steven1971]

Could be a mortgage but could also be a bank loan. A bank loan would be easier and less fuss to obtain than a mortgage though repayments slightly higher over a shorter time period. In theory not usually supposed to buy property but if only £40-50k it's doable and can put it down as home improvement.

You would only be able to borrow £40-50k as a mortgage.

Bank loans you are looking at £25k maximum and no more than 8 years to repay.

Bank loans you are looking at 5-7% interest at the moment as a minimum.

Whatever you borrow banks would be looking at both your credit score and your income for the past three months.

Just as an illustration I had a £50,000 deposit from an inheritance when I bought my house. I borrowed £30,000 over 15 years fixed at 3.6% with repayments just below £200 a month.

If you managed to get someone to lend you money you would be looking at £600 a month minimum, £7200 a year.

[Trenchcoat]

still tryin to get somethin for nothin, eh me lad?
a passive income, ain't a profession or a career
it's just a daydream you have

honestly, I'd go with the chickens
if things don't work out, you can always eat 'em

you're real question, "is not making any changes in my life sufficient to put me on the road to success?"
the answer is, "has it so far?"

Renovating Property is not work???? I would be there paint brush, drill, dust pan & brush, etc in hand, surely that would qualify?

At the moment I'm just getting to a passive income status on my house, that I would keep, but this would be a little different with the focus being on value gained through my renovation work and potential sell on after.

[Trenchcoat]

You would only be able to borrow £40-50k as a mortgage.

Bank loans you are looking at £25k maximum and no more than 8 years to repay.

Bank loans you are looking at 5-7% interest at the moment as a minimum.

Whatever you borrow banks would be looking at both your credit score and your income for the past three months.

Just as an illustration I had a £50,000 deposit from an inheritance when I bought my house. I borrowed £30,000 over 15 years fixed at 3.6% with repayments just below £200 a month.

If you managed to get someone to lend you money you would be looking at £600 a month minimum, £7200 a year.

NatWest do bank loans up to £50k:

http://www.natwest.com/loans/tools/loan-calculator.html

Repayments up to 8 years.

Granted the interest rates are a little higher than they have been, so currently 7.9 percent at NatWest for a £40-50k bank loan. So repayments a bit high near £700 a month something around £40k would be more easier on the finance side. I've gotten a NatWest loan before that I've nearly paid off now and they're pretty easy to get, a few simple quick questions and think the automated system does the rest and within a few hours if not straight away you've normally got it.

Mortgage varies a little, and can be more fuss but can spread the cost over a longer period. All something I would have to weigh up at the time as would have to be careful not to risk dropping myself in it if problems started to arise.

[krimster2]

"For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven"

after the real estate crash and recession in 2007-2009, I bought several "fixer-uppers" foreclosed homes at bargain prices, thanks to an all cash purchase
(I live in an area and bought in a price range, where cash purchases don't automatically generate a fincen report to the treasury dept)
it's been YEARS since anyone could really do that in this area, becasue large hedge funds have been massively buying these properties and bidding up the prices, so there are no more bargains

inflation has pushed up property values, but it's also increased property taxes and insurance and maintenance costs which eats into your profit - rents are not elastic, but the costs are!

I see this trend continuing to get worse over time
my conclusion, this income source is losing it's luster
and I'm planning on "getting out" in the long term
it's "time" is past
because the times, "they are a-changin"

Trench
Got a good reason
For taking the easy way out
Got a good reason
For taking the easy way out, now

[Trenchcoat]

"For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven"

after the real estate crash and recession in 2007-2009, I bought several "fixer-uppers" foreclosed homes at bargain prices, thanks to an all cash purchase
(I live in an area and bought in a price range, where cash purchases don't automatically generate a fincen report to the treasury dept)
it's been YEARS since anyone could really do that in this area, becasue large hedge funds have been massively buying these properties and bidding up the prices, so there are no more bargains

inflation has pushed up property values, but it's also increased property taxes and insurance and maintenance costs which eats into your profit - rents are not elastic, but the costs are!

I see this trend continuing to get worse over time
my conclusion, this income source is losing it's luster
and I'm planning on "getting out" in the long term
it's "time" is past
because the times, "they are a-changin"

Trench
Got a good reason
For taking the easy way out
Got a good reason
For taking the easy way out, now

Varies I guess depending on country. I know the UK housing market pretty well but when looking to operate in other countries not quite as well as Stephen has helped highlight. Spain has often had a lot of bad news stories in the passed from British ex-pats, properties being bulldozed down that British people have bought to make way for a motorway or newly build villas sliding down an unstable hillside shortly after being bought/built. Greece not as many bad news stories but probably less ex-pats out that way. Odds are as long as I'm careful and do my research and get to know the country's housing market I will probably be ok.

The UK housing market has been solid for a long time as there is a continual housing shortage with the population rising all the time so pushing up house prices. Inflation here will likely help avoid much in the way of house price falls and may push up house prices also. A lot of houses have been sold by big Landlords of recent due to all the increased regulation and financial issues heaped on them by the government, they're not happy, but I think due to housing demand and inflation there hasn't been a big fall off in house prices, a temporary dip but they seem to be rising again now. Renting out rooms on a lodging basis for one house is still a goer but much more than that and you've got to be careful.

The US market I am not so familiar with and given the size of the US land wise it probably wouldn't be a wise move for me. As I understand it while there is housing demand the US housing market can become volatile when issues arise as in the 2007-8 crash. House prices crashed briefly here but I don't think it was quite as bad in general due to the pressure for housing.

So do you think a FSW would see a property renovation business as a ambitious work conscious thing? I mean I would be doing work on it and improvements being visible for her to see. Some FSW might even get off on putting in a bit of interior design thoughts into it and so pleasing them I guess.

[Steven1971]

NatWest do bank loans up to £50k:

http://www.natwest.com/loans/tools/loan-calculator.html

Repayments up to 8 years.

Granted the interest rates are a little higher than they have been, so currently 7.9 percent at NatWest for a £40-50k bank loan. So repayments a bit high near £700 a month something around £40k would be more easier on the finance side. I've gotten a NatWest loan before that I've nearly paid off now and they're pretty easy to get, a few simple quick questions and think the automated system does the rest and within a few hours if not straight away you've normally got it.

Mortgage varies a little, and can be more fuss but can spread the cost over a longer period. All something I would have to weigh up at the time as would have to be careful not to risk dropping myself in it if problems started to arise.

I say this with no offence intended, but if Nat West lends 50 grand without rigorous credit checks then more fool them.

The immediate problem is Corfu as part of Greece is in the European Union so you can only be there for 90 days in every 180.

Squatting is against the law in Spain, but that doesn't mean the law moves quickly.

It seems to me the best solution is to work as many hours as you can in the UK for three months and then go over there and make the most of your time there.

Loan repayments would take out a significant amount of your disposable income so in the near future you would appear in Corfu as a tradesman with an unfinished house without a lot of money to spend socialising.

I admire the ambition, but you don't seem to consider the downside risks.

When i took out my mortgage it was mentioned in passing that a loan that relied on rental income to cover repayments would need
rental income to be double that of a mortgage. Since then lending criteria has become less strict, but it was a response to the wild west approach to lending leading up to the financial crisis of 2008.

A big advantage of Corfu would be a greater use of English by the locals.

A quick google search found this property:

http://www.corfuestatemanagement.gr/pdetails?sortby=Amount_Asc&lng=en&reducedprice=yes&p=3&id=C%2D6536&requestpage=search&tpage=Photos

The price is attractive, but i do wonder why it is half the initial price. Also how far away it is from civilisation.

Would you be looking to rent a property out or do it up and sell it on?

[krimster2]

Trench, is it really a "business" at the scale you propose?
more like a "side hussle" to me

looking for spare change on the sidewalk
and you can call yourself "an asset recovery specialist"

uber driver equals transportation specialist
at least when ya tell the "chicks" your "professional" status
BUT...
wimmin will "suss" you out me lad, they'll know who ye really are just by lookin at ya

and ya still gonna be a "broke bloke" mate

too little
too late

you chose "slack" and you still choose it over REAL ambition to make something of your life
it's futile to try and escape the consequences
just live the life you chose for yourself

being a spouse and parent is difficult and hard work Trench
I doubt you'd like it very much

don't worry
just be HAPPY and enjoy your stress-free slack life-style

[Steven1971]

Assuming you manage to borrow a sum of money to buy a cheap place, pay legal fees and cover materials you would be left with the rental income of your town house. Do we assume you only rent out two rooms and leave a room for yourself 6 months of the year or would you max out on tenants and live with your family on your return? How are you going to live back in the UK for 6 months a year when a significant chunk of your rental income is going on loan repayments?

Something else i didn't spot first time round regarding Nat West lending criteria:

"The rate you pay depends on your circumstances and loan amount and may differ from the Representative APR. We will never offer you a rate exceeding 29.9% p.a. (fixed), regardless of loan size. This means you're not guaranteed to get the rate you see in the calculator.

I would try to find out the real APR before you think of quitting your job

[Steven1971]

There is a tradition of Brits buying up disused houses in the Dordogne region of France. There are hurdles to face and you are a braver man than me to contemplate doing so. Finances for me are the biggest stumbling block. I would recommend upping your hours a bit at home in the short term and visting the island a couple of times focussed on gaining local knowledge and contacts.

[krimster2]

Trench, why bother seeking confirmation for something that you already have been denied repeatedly?
what's the point? of this line of thinking?

why do you expect a different outcome in the future compared to the one you always received in the past?
cuz you ALMOST have a side hussle now, and so maybe someone might confuse ya for Elon Musk?

don't feel bad, a lotta guys on this board were "delusional" as well
you and reality, need to meet some day and have a quiet chat
right now, it looks like you're total strangers to each other

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, is it really a "business" at the scale you propose?
more like a "side hussle" to me

looking for spare change on the sidewalk
and you can call yourself "an asset recovery specialist"

uber driver equals transportation specialist
at least when ya tell the "chicks" your "professional" status
BUT...
wimmin will "suss" you out me lad, they'll know who ye really are just by lookin at ya

and ya still gonna be a "broke bloke" mate

too little
too late

you chose "slack" and you still choose it over REAL ambition to make something of your life
it's futile to try and escape the consequences
just live the life you chose for yourself

being a spouse and parent is difficult and hard work Trench
I doubt you'd like it very much

don't worry
just be HAPPY and enjoy your stress-free slack life-style

Do I have to be a Millionaire or aiming for a quick path there to not be seen as slack?

Surely there are many guys that have been successful at this venture while not on the path to be a Millionaire or be one?

There can be added risk with being too wealthy also like that Millionaire Brit guy who was killed in a hit & run with his recently married (stripper) wife the main suspect. So potentially being too wealthy might attract the wrong sort of attention.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, why bother seeking confirmation for something that you already have been denied repeatedly?
what's the point? of this line of thinking?

why do you expect a different outcome in the future compared to the one you always received in the past?
cuz you ALMOST have a side hussle now, and so maybe someone might confuse ya for Elon Musk?

don't feel bad, a lotta guys on this board were "delusional" as well
you and reality, need to meet some day and have a quiet chat
right now, it looks like you're total strangers to each other

I'm rather thinking that once I get the house conversion finished and get it rented out I will be moving up fro what I was (as far as women see it). I will be a freeman rather than a serf and have a 'business' be independent of others generally and have property (assets) behind me, i.e wealth.

So different from what I have been, not a Millionaire but not many of them around but reasonably wealthy which won't be bad compared to most.

[Trenchcoat]

I say this with no offence intended, but if Nat West lends 50 grand without rigorous credit checks then more fool them.

The immediate problem is Corfu as part of Greece is in the European Union so you can only be there for 90 days in every 180.

Squatting is against the law in Spain, but that doesn't mean the law moves quickly.

It seems to me the best solution is to work as many hours as you can in the UK for three months and then go over there and make the most of your time there.

Loan repayments would take out a significant amount of your disposable income so in the near future you would appear in Corfu as a tradesman with an unfinished house without a lot of money to spend socialising.

I admire the ambition, but you don't seem to consider the downside risks.

When i took out my mortgage it was mentioned in passing that a loan that relied on rental income to cover repayments would need
rental income to be double that of a mortgage. Since then lending criteria has become less strict, but it was a response to the wild west approach to lending leading up to the financial crisis of 2008.

A big advantage of Corfu would be a greater use of English by the locals.

A quick google search found this property:

http://www.corfuestatemanagement.gr/pdetails?sortby=Amount_Asc&lng=en&reducedprice=yes&p=3&id=C%2D6536&requestpage=search&tpage=Photos

The price is attractive, but i do wonder why it is half the initial price. Also how far away it is from civilisation.

Would you be looking to rent a property out or do it up and sell it on?

Looks like potentially a good find Stephen, it's not far from Corfu Town the island's 'Capital' if you like (a nice small city) and of course the airport near Corfu Town.

Seen one similar distance away to the west of Corfu Town possibly fractionally nearer, an old stone built one for £40k similar renovation job.

It's probably about the right price for a renovation job, the higher price was probably either trying it on hoping for a unwitting foreigner or a marketing stunt.

Floors, roof etc would need checking out. The only other issue I can see is that it says it was built in 1950. So not the solid build of a traditional old stone built house from way back. Not that it is necessarily a problem but checking the walks over to see if they look structurally sound and no big cracks filled in. Odds are it's ok and just needs a tarting up inside.

Stone properties are great for their solid build as usually very rare that they have any structural issues and their build is so dense. That however can be a big issue as fine if you don't want to alter much but the more you do wish to alter the harder going it can be with the stone walls, very time consuming and can be hard work even with machine tools so as I found easiest to buy ones where you're not intending much alteration with them.

Looks like plenty of room in that one though Steven and could come up looking good.

[Trenchcoat]

There is a tradition of Brits buying up disused houses in the Dordogne region of France. There are hurdles to face and you are a braver man than me to contemplate doing so. Finances for me are the biggest stumbling block. I would recommend upping your hours a bit at home in the short term and visting the island a couple of times focussed on gaining local knowledge and contacts.

That could be a good idea Steven, I think you're right that before chucking my job in upping hours for a short temporary while to boost my financial position may be a good idea

[Steven1971]

I will be looking to take out a personal loan in the next 12-24 months for home improvement, (loft conversion), so i was interested to see the market for personal loans.

One of my two credit cards is ultimately owned by Lloyds bank. In the terms and conditions they are quite firm that a personal loan cannot be used for buying property - neither for the capital, nor as a deposit.

Whether you are accepted or not i think a mortgage on your UK house makes more sense. The lender needs to be confident they can get their money back and homes are safe as houses. With your improvements to it the value of the house exceeds the value of the loan.

8 years is frankly an insane time period to repay £50,000 (£62,500) on your income levels. It would be a knife against your throat.

As well as giving you easier repayment terms you would get a lower interest rate for a mortgage on a secure asset.

As a quick illustration a 15 year mortgage with Halifax is currently 5.5% with a two year fix (no fees) and a £389 monthly payment. If the house had two tenants that would be double the mortgage payments. If the Bank of England manages to tame inflation interest rates might come down in future. But they can of course go the other way.

You get your arse kicked here a fair bit, but it's only because we don't want you to go into something with blinkers on.

If you borrow money against an asset to utilise the skills you have to do something productive then good for you. I think there are many here who would say you have had 5 days a week to do your house in the UK  and progress has not been lightning quick on that. No one wants a bodge job though and building work isn't a long tranquil river and I imagine you have learnt lessons along the way.

I say at work throw enough darts and eventually you will hit the bulls eye. Just make sure none of them don't boomerang back and hit you in the arse.