Should I even bother with agencies/sites if I am fluent in Russian?

[Faux Pas]

That all depends on your ability or acumen with women in general and more specifically women at home. Do you have any game, can you walk up to a woman on the street and engage her with some interesting conversation and can you accept rejection without it bombing your ego. If the answer to those questions is yes then don't need any help from any one.

Single women are in droves and every where. I've been married now almost 8 years and made many visits and still totally astounded at all of the available women everywhere I go in Russia. My first visit to the FSU was to meet the woman who is now my wife. After our initial meeting she went home and I was still in St Petersburg for several days afterward. I couldn't speak the language but I had no problem meeting women on the fly. I discovered that stoic look most have melts completely away once approached.

If you speak the language, comfortable in your skin and can keep women interested you don't need anyone's help in the cities of the FSU, IMHO

[MonarchXYZ]

No shit, but tall good looking men with brains get paid more, on average.

I was spoiled by American women big-time. First day of school (2nd day in America), a ton of hot girls approaching me with:
"Where are you from? How do you say your last name? Are all boys in Ukraine cute like you? You have pretty eyes. I like your shirt. I love your accent. Do you have a GF? Do you think we're ugly? Do you want to go out? What bus do I take to go to Ukraine?"

Same thing in college and now at work... I was approached by way more women than I approached myself and was rejected 3-4 times tops. I do not think this will work in my favor in Ukraine, not with our women. What will work is the fact that I will be VERY excited, exceedingly happy, and enthusiastic about being there (my true home after all!). My life's best and happiest memories are all from Ukraine. When I am in that kind of mood, I am a chatty magnet, somewhat aloof, and magic happens every time. From what I remember people there are cynical, generally slightly depressed, and do not smile as much. That's why American optimism and smile shines there, a trait I picked up myself in US.

[MonarchXYZ]

Most of them know nothing about the level of income needed to  live well in USA.

And how could they, and why should they?

Our way of life and financial alternatives are very foreign to these gals.

Update: financials are not foreign to them anymore. I know a few guys in US interested in and chatting with FSU women. After disclosing how much they made ($60-80K) those women cut off all communication with them.

[alex330]

Do our women, who I am supposed to know better than anyone here, prefer good-looking men? I recall looking good = lazy and no good job. It's not like that in US in my experience and one's looks and body fitness are valued here, but not sure about Ukraine.

From what I remember people there are cynical, generally slightly depressed, and do not smile as much. That's why American optimism and smile shines there, a trait I picked up myself in US.

Generally true observations from what I have seen, but it is changing. Looks and fitness are much more important over there now and the younger generation is more smiles than the one before it.

[Trenchcoat]

No shit, but tall good looking men with brains get paid more, on average.

I was spoiled by American women big-time. First day of school (2nd day in America), a ton of hot girls approaching me with:
"Where are you from? How do you say your last name? Are all boys in Ukraine cute like you? You have pretty eyes. I like your shirt. I love your accent. Do you have a GF? Do you think we're ugly? Do you want to go out? What bus do I take to go to Ukraine?"

Same thing in college and now at work... I was approached by way more women than I approached myself and was rejected 3-4 times tops.

I never got any of this sort of attention in the UK (I'm UK born/resident), I've had a few girls eye me up but they were always notorious to approach/talk to/open up. I've never really had girls chase after me like this, particularly all at once, so you are very lucky. I think though that UK girls can be very difficult, particularly where I'm from in south of England - they have a bit of a reputation for being as cold as ice. That and many of the prettier ones, even the not so pretty ones already have boyfriends so you never really know how interested they are in you or whether they just want a queue of guys as a fallback or something.

[Trenchcoat]

Update: financials are not foreign to them anymore. I know a few guys in US interested in and chatting with FSU women. After disclosing how much they made ($60-80K) those women cut off all communication with them.

I would have thought that is a decent amount of income, from a quick uk conversion rate. For the UK it would be anyway. Sure you can earn more, did they want millionaires or something? I'm assuming that they cut off communication because they though it not enough? In which case sounds to me that they were ridiculous out & out gold diggers not worth spending the time on, better for the guys that they went on their way I would say.

[2tallbill]

Update: financials are not foreign to them anymore. I know a few guys in US interested in and chatting with FSU women. After disclosing how much they made ($60-80K) those women cut off all communication with them.

Lesson 1: Don't be surprised if you attract gold diggers if you use money as bait.

Lesson 2: There is no reason to have a conversation on income before meeting in
person.

Lesson 3: Always be the one driving the bus.

 

[Patagonie]

Lesson 1: Don't be surprised if you attract gold diggers if you use money as bait.

Lesson 2: There is no reason to have a conversation on income before meeting in
person.

Lesson 3: Always be the one driving the bus.

+1

Why  men are enough stupids to display their incomes, assets, photos of their houses, cars, tattoos, torso, biceps, penis?

Good thing : they have avoided high maintenance girls or green carders or gold diggers

FSU women don't have any clue about what is the financial life in the west.
So definitively if they walk away the day of men paid 60/80k  it just means that they were money sluts suckers.

[MonarchXYZ]

Yeah, but most good looking women there are gold diggers and they tend to be found down-town. When your citizenship and wallet are more important than your personality and appearance, you are with a gold digger. That is why so many want to marry a western man - gold digging and citizenship. They are willing to give up local men they actually love to make sure their children have better lives in the West.

[Faux Pas]

Yeah, but most good looking women there are gold diggers and they tend to be found down-town. When your citizenship and wallet are more important than your personality and appearance, you are with a gold digger. That is why so many want to marry a western man - gold digging and citizenship. They are willing to give up local men they actually love to make sure their children have better lives in the West.

You can find those kind of women any place. You really do not need to go to the FSU for those. There was an old clique used on the forum years ago that would pertain to you and this statement here "the fish you catch is directly related to the bait you use". Give that some thought.

If you think you can use your passport, flash your money and pick out a woman like you pick out a puppy, think again. You'll likely catch one of those women you fear and she will eat your ass.

Is that the approach to dating you do at home? You wow women with your money/cars/home/status? There are plenty of wonderful women in the FSU who want nothing more than to meet a good man for marriage and lifelong commitment. The problem is, so many of the men that go looking for them are not "good men for marriage". Does that make any sense to you?

[MonarchXYZ]

Er no, I never flash money or status or whatever possessions. What I am saying is that most of those hotties will immediately think money when they find out you are a foreigner and will attempt to suck your wallet dry via expensive restaurants, gifts, etc. Finding a good looking woman that is NOT like that will simply be tough for any foreigner.

[Patagonie]

Er no, I never flash money or status or whatever possessions. What I am saying is that most of those hotties will immediately think money when they find out you are a foreigner and will attempt to suck your wallet dry via expensive restaurants, gifts, etc. Finding a good looking woman that is NOT like that will simply be tough for any foreigner.

Not exactly.
As Faux Pas said you find this type of women everywhere in the world.
But they are not over represented in FSU.

[Boethius]

My husband agrees with Monarch.  He has met lots of FSUW here who are married to WM, and he had some contact with classmates who have married Europeans (who found him on FB - he ended up deleting his FB account because of it).  These experiences, and what he has observed when back in the FSU, is what informs his opinion, though I disagree with him because one can't state that such applies unequivocally.  When I read Monarch's posts to him, he said "That is exactly what it is."  He doesn't even restrict it to hotties, as Monarch does.

[Faux Pas]

Er no, I never flash money or status or whatever possessions. What I am saying is that most of those hotties will immediately think money when they find out you are a foreigner and will attempt to suck your wallet dry via expensive restaurants, gifts, etc. Finding a good looking woman that is NOT like that will simply be tough for any foreigner.

If a "good looking woman" is all you seek stay home, seriously. That way you're not the foreigner, problem solved. There are millions of beautiful women in the USA. IIRC you are still in your 20's?

Yes, there is a contingent of women particularly young women that will suck your wallet dry (again in any country). There are also hordes of prostitutes, overweight women, skinny women, poor women and rich women. Do you know what else there is? There are beautiful, intelligent women who are looking for a good man. Now rather than thinking you are looking for a "good looking woman" first, can you be "a good man"?

If you are just looking to get laid don't waste your money or time. It's way too expensive for that and you can do that at home. I really don't know where you are getting all of your information and I do not agree with Boe's better half. At least, these are not the women I know in Russia. In Ukraine they could all be blood sucking whores for all I know. I've never been there. The places in the FSU I have been they are nothing like you describe. It should also be noted I've never been on the prowl for young 20 years olds in the FSU, either 

[Boethius]

FP, I disagree with the better half when it comes to older women.  They are not wanted by FSUM, for the most part, and if they do not want to die alone, they are going to seek a WM.  That said, part of the better half's perception may be the FSUW he meets here.   One woman, from Ukraine, is married to a WM.  However, he was born in Ukraine and grew up there.  He is still more comfortable speaking Ukrainian than English.  He had never been married before.  Because he had no family to take care of, he is very well off. He has bought her adult children in Ukraine homes and vacation properties in one of the most desirable areas of Ukraine.

Some time ago, he was diagnosed with cancer.  They'd been married about 8 years at the time.  The better half said she literally could not hide her glee at the fact she would finally be "rid of him".  The BH was so disgusted, because he said the husband is a very good person, and did not deserve such a "viper" wife.  To her dismay, he survived the cancer.  He still has no idea of his wife's true feelings.

That's just one story.  He has many others that are similar.

[Darth_Budda]

I don't know how you can support a family making 30K a year. Does she know that? They aren't stupid women. I'd say 50K in suburbia is the minimum to live more or less comfy, and 70K in big cities.

She Knows I am only a carpenter...

She is my wife...

She loves New York... so far..

We go exploring in the corvette...

FSU women like good looking men but good looks can't support a family. They value other things more such as your biggest sex organ, the brain.

We laughed at this one...

[Faux Pas]

Boe -

I know we've discussed recently the women and men in this pursuit and the high percentage of nefarious folks that do it both male and female. We (the wife and I) personally know 25-30 FSUW/AM couples. Most of which are divorced or have a marriage in-trouble and do not like each other very much. A small number seem to be happy couples. I do truly believe that a large number of us are wackos and do this for nefarious purposes. Both men and women.

That said, I am not calling anybody out, you know who you are but I have been around for a long time and have seen marriage after marriage split the sheets. Fewer and fewer of these marriages are lasting. That's just the facts as I see them. When this board first started as a hold over from the planet-love site most people were still married. I suspect if we did a roll call of everyone on this and other boards of how many was still married, I'd wager than number was very small. Some have been married multiple times.

Is it the women? I'd venture to say it's very likely 50/50 men/women

[Boethius]

I don't disagree with you. 


In the example I presented, that couple will be married until he dies, because she wants his assets.  I suppose it is fine, he doesn't know that she does not love him, or if he does know, he is not bothered by it.  I just think it is sad to live without real love.

[2tallbill]

Er no, I never flash money or status or whatever possessions. What I am saying is that most of those hotties will immediately think money when they find out you are a foreigner and will attempt to suck your wallet dry via expensive restaurants, gifts, etc. Finding a good looking woman that is NOT like that will simply be tough for any foreigner.

Dump any girl when you get the first smell that she might be a gold digger.
This is a numbers game. Over +95% of FSUW won't be a good match. In my
mind 99% of WW wouldn't be a good match (for me) I wrote thousands and
thousands of girls. I've dated hundreds and hundreds, I rejected 99.999% of
them. 

Dump, dump, dump and keep on dumping until you find an exceptional girl. You
don't want to marry a so-so girl! Who wants a mediocre wife? a mediocre wife
sucks @ss. Don't do it! Keep looking, start all over again, never date a non-exceptional
girl a second time. 

So if you know you are going to reject a zillion girls whether they are hot or not
then you are driving the bus. The quicker you reject a girl and move on, the quicker
that you (and the girl you dumped) will find your match.

[2tallbill]

Yeah, but most good looking women there are gold diggers and they tend to be found down-town. When your citizenship and wallet are more important than your personality and appearance, you are with a gold digger. That is why so many want to marry a western man - gold digging and citizenship. They are willing to give up local men they actually love to make sure their children have better lives in the West.

I think it somewhat depends on the age that you are seeking. If you are seeking a girl
who is less than say 25 you might be correct much of the time. However if you were
like me and searched for women who were 36+ then I would totally disagree with you.

Women who are older than say 36 have very few prospects for marriage in the FSU.
There are certainly men who will bed them (without a condom) sit on their couch
and eat their cooking, but those women have very little prospects for a serious LTR
and it's even worse if they have a child.

If you are seeking a woman over a certain age then you will find many excellent
candidates who are sincere and serious.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

Udachi!

Bill

[Boethius]

Women who are older than say 36 have very few prospects for marriage in the FSU.

Not as true as it used to be.   

[MonarchXYZ]

Boe - are you a Ukrainian woman?

The reason I want a Ukrainian wife is because:
- I'm Ukrainian.
- I was raised by a Ukrainian woman, man, and sister.
- There are way more hot women in Ukraine than in US, where 75 percent are overweight or obese.
- I want a feminine woman with traditional family values.
- I do not like AW and their attitude.
- I want a Russian-speaking wife because English is a dead robotic language to me, while Russian is my native language. If someone says I Love You to me in English, I feel nothing. The same words in Russian would make me feel at least something.
- I don't understand American humor and love Ukrainian/Russian humor.


I am TOTALLY cool with mild gold diggers. No woman wants a loser and it is a man's duty to provide in a traditional family. I am cool with my US citizenship and my good stable job being big assets, but I am not cool if they are my only assets to a woman. I want someone who actually loves me for my personality &  looks, and who I love back as a person. I'm almost 30 (although everyone says I look 20...) and want someone in 20-26 range because I want healthy kids. Is that very difficult to find in Odessa? I will not be looking in down-town or Arcadia beach or tourist locations. I will visit the poorer areas, where most true Ukrainian women live and where I came from.

[2tallbill]

Not as true as it used to be.   

The prospects of a 36 year old here with a child vs there with a child are
radically and immeasurably different.

[Boethius]

Meh, I don't know about that.  I know a number of UW, a few with children, who married a second, even a third time, to UM, after 40.  Not the norm, and 20 years ago, it would not have happened.  But, it is changing.

[MonarchXYZ]

I am from the Ukrainian diaspora, my Grandmother was born in Ukraine, my Grandfather was not, though he was Ukrainian.  I speak Ukrainian fluently.


My better half is from Ukraine.  He is ethnically less Ukrainian than am I.  He does not consider me, or any diaspora Ukrainians, "Ukrainian".  He says our attitudes are different from those in Ukraine.  He usually perceives ours as "better", unimpeded by the Soviets.


I think you are idealizing UW.  What you want is up to you though, of course.

Are you saying AW or WW are in any way better than UW? AW are NOT feminine, not traditional, mostly disgusting fat, career-obsessed and very selfish. It's a matter of selecting lesser evil. I don't need to justify myself anyway, I have every good reason to be with UW. I tried to have a serious relationship with AW and it was horrible. I accidentally met and successfully dated 3 girls in college - one from Russia,  one from Belarus, and one from Poland. They were WAY different from AW and it was the only time I loved someone. They all were exchange students and had to go back...

For a semi-Ukrainian, you don't seem to have a positive opinion about UW. Do you also consider yourself a heavy gold digger?

UW are women and fall in love with local Ukrainians, so I do not see why the same can't happen with handsome in-shape Ukrainians who live in USA with good stable jobs. I consider myself an all-in-one package .  Most AM and many WM are old, out of shape, naive, ugly, don't speak Russian, don't understand Ukrainian humor, etc. Why love them? It only makes sense to use them! I have none of these shortcomings.