Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Trip Reports => Third-Party Reports => Topic started by: Kevin on August 03, 2006, 03:11:24 AM
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Every once in a while we have a situation that takes everyone by surprise.
This is a true story and I though because of the numerous personalities on
this list it would make for a great debate and a fun game. It has 4 parts. I post a different part each day.
I will put you in the Men position and see how you would react to this situation compared to how he did.
Background History.
Here we go and the start is very common for all of you. You have spent
some time writing ladies in the agency and have decided on a few to visit.
You make your first trip and meet the ladies and pick one lady that you find
special and spend some time with her. Everything is going fine and you
decide this is your lady and you get engaged. You meet her father and get
along great. You return home engaged. You start writing letters and she
normally returns them once a week as she lives in a local village 2hrs from
Kherson. You also provide her with a mobile phone.
You make your second trip and meet her in Kiev with her father. Another
perfect week spent with your lady. You get along great with the father and
daughter and you start to plan your wedding. You agree to return back 2 week
before the wedding. You leave giving your lady $200 cash and a she has the
mobile phone you bought her to stay in touch. Everything is great so you
head back home to return in a month for the wedding.
You return home and send her a letter and wait for her response within a
week. A week goes by and no response so you ask the agency to contact her.
The agency is unable to reach her on the mobile, but we know this lady takes
some time to come to the office so we wait for her. The agency also sends a
letter via postal to her home.
Another week goes by and stills no answer. You ask the agency to get
involved. The agency finally gets in touch with the father. Your lady went
to another town to work because she needed money is the response from the
father. He will call her and tell her to come to the agency. Agency is
unable to reach the lady via mobile. Father is can reach her every once in a
while. Father says everything is ok and she will be in Kherson for the
wedding. Father said she lost her mobile and that is why she not answering
it. She will be in Kherson when you arrive.
Ok. This is where you guys come in. What would you do at this point?
1.. Come to Kherson even though you haven't been able to contact her in a
month?
2.. Wait till you hear from her?
3.. Other options?
Keep in mine that you are bring family members for the wedding with you.
And then I'll tell you what we did and he did. It goes to take at least 5
parts to get though this.
Thanks
Kevin Hayes
www.khersongirls.com
(352) 505-8043
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First thing is to pay you to go see her and see what is going on. The rest follows from your findings. If the agency was not yours then I would deal with the proprietor of that agency. I can not imagine getting married to somebodythrough an agency where I did not trust the staff/owner enough to do this simple thing.
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I guess I wasn't clear. I am the agency in the case and this story is about a client of mine and a lady in my agency.
Kevin
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Lets see here Kev. He comes over and uses your agency and he spends a little time with this girl and gets engaged and goes home. She returns to her little town 2 hours from Kherson. He comes back and spends a week in Kiev with his new fiance and father and everything is great and they will be set to wed in a month over there.
At this point the guy should be seriously questioning his sanity and his decision making process. Spending 1 week and maybe a couple days with her does not give them time to know each other at all and Dad is always in the picture?
Then on top of that there is her going to another city to work? The missing and lost mobile phone? He should ask you for "your take" on all this especially since he is coming over in 2 weeks to marry the girl. Obviously something is amiss here and marriage should not be on his mind.
1. Going there to Kherson seems a waste.
2. Waiting to hear from her? Keep waiting. Of course he left her enough $ for her to replace the phone and if she spent it he could get another one to her if he wants to. You could be of help in this as well as also speaking with the girl to find out just what is amiss. Also communication with Dad is limited.
3. Don't get the tuxedo and ring out and don't send any relatives over until he is clear on everything with her and Dad.
4. No good communication should equal no marriage.
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I agree that good communication is key. However, we can't be perfectionists here. I am willing to give benefit of the doubt here.
Keep in touch but suggest delaying the wedding. Make sure that she is trustworthy and that she didn't lose the mobile phone on purpose. (I have lost a phone before and it was horrible for weeks!) Have the agency facilitate any transaction for free as to make good on its promises.
Honesty is priceless. The agency's goal ought to be making it as easy as possible to communicate between male and female.
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Kevin,
Not enough information posted to form an opinion yet, but so far it don't look good for the home team.
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Interactive trip report is a great idea. I look forward to seeing how this develops upon my return from Saudi. (RWD is
banned in Saudi.) Clearly, a miscommunication has taken place and expectations haven't been clearly laid out by one or
both parties. There might be a little bit of cultural differences cropping up as well. For example, I'm pretty hazy on Ukrainian marriage custom. What is the bride's family financially responsible for?
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I guess I wasn't clear. I am the agency in the case and this story is about a client of mine and a lady in my agency.
Kevin
I assumed that this was the case. So I guess as a concerned and responsible agency owner that you volunteered to just as I suggested, yes? Probably things were much more clear afterward?
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Buy another cell phone and have it delivered to her new village via the agency. Call her and find out what the hell is going on.
KenC
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Although there's not much info to go on, from what you've told us I'd drop her like a hot potato.
From time to time guys post here that their gf has stopped writing or that her letters are suddenly shorter and not so regular, and want to know if they should be worried. Time and again people blow sunshine up these guys' butts and make excuses for the girl when it's pretty clear to me that she's got a local boyfriend (and probably always had, but now her local relationship has turned more serious), is no longer interested, or her living situation has improved to the point where she's no longer eager to relocate to live with a guy who's almost a perfect stranger.
If a girl really loves you, she'll do whatever is necessary to communicate with you.
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Firstly, how does the guy make a marriage decision based on one visit? Are we talking SRM here Kevin? Or 20 year age gap etc?
We would have half a clue if we knew if they managed to dump Father and had consumated the relationship.
How did Father end up tagging along?
Presumably the Father (being the sort who feels the need to accompany daughter on dates) has her address and a contact number where she is? They are not in the Amazon, they have phones in most places!
The girl who is to become your wife does not manage to initiate contact in a month? Maybe a phone is hard, maybe she could find a new pal and send an sms, maybe write a letter, maybe find an internet facility?
We know this is doomed to failure but as a last ditch attempt, I would have a letter translated professionally and have it sent DHL to wherever she is and give her a firm time limit to re establish contact, like 3 days from receipt, failing which I would forget her and Kevin as the responsible agency owner should delete her from his books.
From this the man would learn a lesson not to get engaged after one visit and to suspect a girl who need Father as chaperone!
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Firstly, how does the guy make a marriage decision based on one visit? Are we talking SRM here Kevin? Or 20 year age gap etc?
We would have half a clue if we knew if they managed to dump Father and had consumated the relationship.
How did Father end up tagging along?
Presumably the Father (being the sort who feels the need to accompany daughter on dates) has her address and a contact number where she is? They are not in the Amazon, they have phones in most places!
The girl who is to become your wife does not manage to initiate contact in a month? Maybe a phone is hard, maybe she could find a new pal and send an sms, maybe write a letter, maybe find an internet facility?
We know this is doomed to failure but as a last ditch attempt, I would have a letter translated professionally and have it sent DHL to wherever she is and give her a firm time limit to re establish contact, like 3 days from receipt, failing which I would forget her and Kevin as the responsible agency owner should delete her from his books.
From this the man would learn a lesson not to get engaged after one visit and to suspect a girl who need Father as chaperone!
Manny,
So far, you are the only one I have seen bring over the SRM acronym from the RWG site. While I recognize there is a certain 'shorthand' to this activity - that is one shorthand which I would personally not like to see catch-on here. It suggests a strata which, IMO, is a load of BS.
I really don't mean to 'come down on you' about this - but at the same time, I really *do* wish you could find a way to make your points without using what I consider to be demeaning (and invalid) terminology.
Make sense?
- Dan
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Hire a PI and have her and her father checked out by them. Its only a little money compared what you could really use. She would never know and if she did all you have to say is that you wanted to know exactley where she was. As the agency owner give the PI all the info on her that you can as a show of good faith to the paying customer.
As other people have stated this seems like a bad relationship if he proposed to her that quick.
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Manny,
So far, you are the only one I have seen bring over the SRM acronym from the RWG site. While I recognize there is a certain 'shorthand' to this activity - that is one shorthand which I would personally not like to see catch-on here. It suggests a strata which, IMO, is a load of BS.
I really don't mean to 'come down on you' about this - but at the same time, I really *do* wish you could find a way to make your points without using what I consider to be demeaning (and invalid) terminology.
Make sense?
- Dan
No it really does not make sense, as many posters here are RWG members as well and the SRM abbreviation is well documented (Second Rate Mutha) and I am sure most people are familiar with it. If not - they are now.
It is a fact of life that many men who embark on this journey are SRM's - and my question was relevant to the theme!
It is not a point that should be overlooked. I would post a link explaining it more fully with pictures but you would delete it with your "dont mention other boards" policy (despite the fact you just have done yourself)
Do I see heads in the sand and/or double standards here?
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what I consider to be demeaning (and invalid) terminology.
Demeaning or not, it is a fact that SRM's abound in the MOB enterprise.
Invalid? :D Did you check some of the pictures from some socials? Herman Munster meets Anna Kournikova! How invalid do you want?
There is a difference in people, those who have a choice and CHOOSE the FSU, and those that cant get anything else and hope to use wallet power to delude themselves - the latter are SRM's - That is not invalid!
I am aghast that you have jumped on me AGAIN for something so minor! I think I am on the wrong board!
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Do I see heads in the sand and/or double standards here?
Nope - what you see is someone who does NOT believe there is a caste system in play. You see someone who rejects the arrogance often on display from those who hold themselves superior to others. You see my intolerance for those who would seek to puff themselves up by disparaging others. Others whom they know NOTHING about.
Demeaning or not, it is a fact that SRM's abound in the MOB enterprise.
According to whom? By what standard?
I am aghast that you have jumped on me AGAIN for something so minor! I think I am on the wrong board!
You may be. If you are here with the intent to demean others - you are, most definitely, on the wrong board.
- Dan
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I think second rate mutha's is also demeaning especially when saying that most the men in this wonderful pursuit are second rate mutha's which I disagree with.
I think some of the photos I have seen of some of some of the men with the women from the socials Manchucker is referring to are disgusting and gives the entire pursuit for a Russian bride a black eye. I almost throw-up when I see some of those photos.
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Kevin:
You first have given us incomplete case info. NO AGES,NO TIMEFRAMES,
NO PROFILE INFO.,NEI ??? To give you a quick reply neither the guy or the
girl are with the love me formula on this one. Gotta go with Groov on this!
D
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The lady and client age are close to each other.
Well it seems that the majority voted not to come. Everyone seem to agree something is wrong as this lady hasn't contacted the office and we don't understand why.
Lets us continue. As all of the facts are still not fully understood and won't be for at least some time. Some of the info I will give might be corrected at a later date.
By this time the agency is concerned about the lady as there was no money or scams that we can detect. The lady showed sincere interest with the client and we are very confused why she hasn't contacted the office. Further attempts at talking to the father we find out their was a family problem after the visit in Kiev. We are not sure of the details but it seem to have something to do with the money that was given $200 and a conflict with the step mother at home. We learn though the father that the lady has left the family to seek work until the client arrives. The father is sure she will arrive in Kherson for the wedding and will resolve the family conflict as soon as he talks to her. He also tells us she is on the way to kherson. (2 days prior to the client arrival date). The father states he has talked to her on the phone. (** a few days ago phone was lost **). Our first warning flag is raised. Lady is suppose to be working in a hospital in Sevastopol. Agency had planned to drive to lady home today. but with the news she is working in Crimea the trip was cancelled. Lady is on the way to Kherson.
Client decided to make the trip based on the chemistry in prior meetings. The fact everyone in the agency believe the lady was sincere and no sign of a scam.. "For those who voted not to come we will see. For those who voted to come it was the same decision the client made. He felt that the chemistry was real and didn't want to lose a lady he was in love with.
So now we have the client coming to Kherson with family. The backup plan will be to stay in Kiev and see the tourist attractions. Another phone call to the father and he claims she is on the way.
**** Client has arrived in Kherson with Family. *****
We now have a client and family in Kherson... Another call to the father and the daughter is on the way still to Kherson. We are told she has no money, No phone and it will take some time for her too arrive.
One day goes by. No lady. We wait, Father not reachable on phone.
Day 2 No lady... Client is upset and want to take some action. I (agency) take the client to see the father at his work... We arrive at the father work. Father said daughter is serious about marriage and he spoke to her 3 days ago. She is with a friend and might have gone to a local beach area to work or could still be in Sevastopol working. He isn't sure where she is. We ask for her friend phone number or mother number. He doesn't know it. He offer to go to the local beach with us the following morning to search for her. We agree to a 8am pickup at his work for the following day and return back to kherson. Father admits to family fight and the fact the lady left home after Kiev. We are unable to reach Step mom or real mother.
I'll stop here and let you again decide. If this was you what would you do.
1. Send family back to Kiev to see the attractions and wait.
2. Go back to Kiev with Family.
3. Go with the father to the beach (1hr drive).
4. Go alone with an interpreter to the beach.
5. Go to Sevastopol and check all of the hospitals to see if she is working (3-4hr drive plus time in city).
6. Go and visit the Step Mom or Mother
7. Go and visit the Friend Mother.
8. Call the Police as we suspect foul play.(Missing Person)
9. Return back home.
Thanks
Kevin Hayes
www.khersongirls.com
(352) 505-8043
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It still seems like a cluster fcuk at this point, but as he is already there and throwing good money after bad, he might as well play it out to the bitter end.
I really do think getting married at this point would be a huge mistake no matter how convincing her story sounds.
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Just my gut feeling. I think the father is lying and has not talked to her on the phone. He has an idea where she is (probably because she knows some people from that area), but he is not sure, which leads me to believe he has had no contact with her since she left. I have a sense that she had a change of heart about the marriage, and that was what the argument was about. The father and stepmother saw the future husband as a cash cow and when she had a change of heart, they saw the end of the cash machine. She did not want to deal with it, and left. If she truly loved this man, she would be in contact with him frequently before the marriage, helping to plan all the details. The fact that she has not called the agency or him right before the wedding is a big sign of cold feet. Even if she lost her mobile phone, she could still make a call from a pay phone to the agency as the cost to do that is not very much. I sense she will not show up, and i would have never made the trip, but since they are all there, might as well do some sight seeing.
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Geee! JB did you forget about the great spell check function ? ;D
Kevin you still are not giving us the complete case. The couple being the same age
does not tell us they are in their twenties or thirties or even late thirties. You as an owner should
have never let your client go this route this soon. The cluster started when you let the family get
on the plane. A question. Was there a RING involved? Based on the word engaged if there was then
the word scam is starting to really play a role. Some Cash And More like the RING. Gee diamonds do
well on *b**! ::) I am really concerned as to how well you really know your girls and their FAMILIES. You think mom and step mom are ok with this? NOTTTT. You are really being tested
here and I for one would have never allowed myself to get in the middle of this. Wx said the girl
has cold feet. Well even if she does she should still feel ok about talking to Lana about it. You
as an owner need to impress this upon the ladies in your office. Use your resources and stay out
of issues like these. If you think the adults are ok with this they are not. The "cash cow" may be
saying MOOOOOOOOOney but the family still wants the best for their children. Blood is thicker than
water and that culture is no different in that respect than ours.
D
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Durk I think you are missing the point. He owns an agency and his reputation is on the line because of this. He comes here seeking advice from the multitude of readers here who have used agencies and have good and bad opinions of them. He wants to make sure he has done right by his customers both men and women. Yes he could easily just step aside and say deal with it on your own but then that person comes to a board like this and tells everyone here that he owns a scam agency. How many times have we seen a person with one bad experience call an agency a scammer. I commend him for coming here and talking abot it.
I do have a couple of questions. I realize that everyone who comes to you is an adult but do you talk to them about some of the proper ways to go about a relationship? I know there is only so much hand holding you can do. Did they talk to you about getting engaged prior to their actually proposing? If they did what was your response? Out of curiosity was he a divorcee? If so how recently?
My own perosnal thoughts on this are that if you need someone to hold your hand then you have no business doing this. I realize a certain terp won't like that. I look forward to hearing the rest of the details.
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Dan,
My almost inexhaustible toddler is sleeping and I have had the chance to read this thread. I appreciate your dislike of slang terms like SRM. Perhaps you should include this character string in the board's swear (curse) word lexicon. Spencer did this to "Jack" so if you tried to refer to Mr Bragg all you got was ****
IMHO there is no person to demean on this thread. Kevin is posting this story in order to promote his agency business. I don't think this short of reportage belongs in the trip report section. Perhaps you will consider moving it?
So far the story does not reflect well on Khersongirls. However I have no doubt that by the end of this tale Kevin's agency will appear as the "knight in shining armour" He is not going to post a story which reflects badly on his business. He is not a fool -though some of his clients appear to be !
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Leslie,
Your assessment of this situation may very well be "dead on". I never thought about it like that, and it does seem logical. We will see how the story unfolds.
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Well it seems to me that I can find any kind of discussion in any thread. It is entertaining and informative and does make you think. I think Wxman's analasis about 5 posts up is the best one I have seen so far. I don't buy Leslie's theory that it makes KG look bad. They have shown concern for their customer. A lot of agencys would not have cared or gotten involved. However KG comes out in the end, I have no problem with it. I hope it has a happier ending than I think it will.
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Leslie,
Your assessment of this situation may very well be "dead on". I never thought about it like that, and it does seem logical. We will see how the story unfolds.
These storie is already finish and Kevin know what is the end since he wrote in his first post :
And then I'll tell you what we did and he did. It goes to take at least 5 parts to get though this.
Already two part post... 3 to go... I bet on the Leslie pronostic...
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What is really strange and the most telling is she was not there to meet him at the airport when he and the family arrived. It is very low class not to meet incoming friends at the airport/train without explanation.
I would send the family to Kiev to start site seeing so that their time is not wasted. No sense in them tagging along to watch his further humiliation. You got to contact the father in person because he is the only one that you have talked with. I would go to this beach and try to find her but not hold much hope for her.
I tend to agree with WXman. Family will lie to protect their daughter's interests. A fiancee may not be able to call you every day but at least a hand written letter from even the smallest village should be possible.
It highly likely she has another boyfriend on the line. Perhaps an other westerner. The dad is trying to keep her options open for her.
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Before I post Pt3. I wanted to make a few comments. For starters this was posted live in my discussion group as it was happening a week ago. It was a good learning experience for everyone. I posted this on this forum to show people what can really happen in the real world as it story is still going on today. It was not an advertisement or an agency promotion but a real life case that happen recently. For those who continue to call my posting advertisement please stop reading so other can learn from them. People are posting for additional facts. other then the ages. The lady is around 22 and the client is around 32. The rest of the story is based on the fact I had at the time frame mention. When we loose contact with a lady for no reason and the family isn't able to make reliable contact also it is not only hard on the client but the agency. I can assure you we did everything possible to find this lady and help the client. It was the client own insight that lead to the finally outcome. Beware that the client was the last to see the lady is a trip to Kiev that did not involved the agency.
The purpose of this trip report is to give people something to think about and talk about. As you will see in Pt 3 the outcome wasn't anything anyone expected nor could any advice or action by all parties changed it with the limited information we had prior to it.
Read and learn. It might happen to you someday.
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Well lets continue as this seem to be getting more interested.
At this point the family is ready to head back to Kiev, The client isn't ready to call it quits and continues his search. We've got the family train tickets for the following day. No luck on finding the lady and it doesn't look good.
At this point I am thinking. 1. Low grad scam. 2. Family attempt for an arrange marriage and the lady skipped out. 3. Foul play and the lady is missing. 4. The lady isn't aware the client is in town. Overall it didn't look good for the client. But we also was aware the lady has limit or no money and might be hitch hiking her way back to Kherson. I could only suggest waiting 2 days max. The client had no desire to meet any other ladies. He was sure it was real love.
Some of you guys are asking about more facts. The problem at this point is we haven't any. What we are getting from the father which isn't much since he either doesn't know or isn't telling us. He seem to be concern and seem to like the client. Just things aren't adding up.
Most of you guys are thinking the same thing the client is at this point. Everything was great on the last visit and suddenly the lady drop off the planet and the parents can't even find her. What could had happen?
Ok, let's continue.
As in Pt 2 we had a few options. The client and myself didn't feel right
about the father info. He had suggested that his daughter might be working
at the local beach area with a friend and wanted to go the following morning
and look for her. At the same time we were consider that the family might
had been trying to force a relationship, foul play or a scam. Things just
didn't add up. So the client decide to send the family back to Kiev and
continue the search. He decided to leave the following day with an
interpreter to the beach without the father. He didn't want any outside
influence when he found her and if the father was somehow involved in her
disappearance he wanted to take her someplace safe....
After 4hrs of searching an area about 1 mile long checking every store and
cafe he wasn't able to find her and return back to the office very
concerned. I meet him at the office and we were all very confused about the
wild goose case and had no ideal what the motivation could be for the father
sending him on it. So we decided it was time to find another source of
information. Since the father mention she might be with a friend and we
haven't spoke to any other family members we decide to head to the village
and start asking questions. The client with my Director (Yana) an
interpreter and a local driver they headed to the village to find her
step-mother or best friend mother. The father had mention she was with a
friend but didn't seem to know her friend phone number.
And this is where the story gets interesting.
Upon arrival they made contact with the Step Mother. Ok,,, Now takes notes
as this will make a great movie some day. The step-mother had received a
call early the same day. It appears that a local men had the lady cell
phone, passport and will not let the lady leave her apartment... (I'm going
to keep the info at the stage as we've received it).. It appear that the
lady X boyfriend who is still in love with her had heard about her
engagement whereas he decided that she isn't going to leave. He took her
phone, passport and because of the location where she lived their was no
way to call the office. With no money and just becoming aware that the
client was in kherson she was trying to find a way to Kherson. (She was
aware of the month but not the exact date of the wedding before she lost
contact) This is why our calls to her cell phone weren't being answered and
limited calls from the father where answer when he allowed it. You can
image the frustration of the client and his question on what is really going
on. My director Yana (those who meet her understand she is a very strong
women) "Nicely" informed the men that the lady would be leaving and meeting
the client to following day. Otherwise the local Police would be at his door
in the morning. My first question was why hadn't the family already called
the police. The client returned to the office to await her arrival whereas
his family members cancel the non-refundable train tickets to wait and see
what happens.
I'm going to leave the reunion to Pt 4. But as you can image what this
client is going though. He meet a lady and everything was great and when he
planned to return and start the process for marriage she disappears. She
knew the month he would return but couldn't remember the exact date as it
wasn't confirmed until after he left Kiev and she wasn't in contact with the
office to get her letters with the date on it. Now he found her the client
still doesn't understand what is going on and the fact that he is being told
that she was kidnapped by a jealous X-Boyfriend makes things almost like a
scrip from a bad movie.
The family and office wait as the taxi goes and get her and bring her back
to Kherson.
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next installment please?
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I have to agree with Manny here. Next part please!
D
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Seems the father is easy enough to contact. I'd call the guy myself and ask him what was going on. I'd tell him to tell her that if she did not figure out a way to communicate then do svidanya sweetcakes. She did not leave the planet so even though she lost the cell phone she can at least hit the local Internet cafe and crank out a letter or two.
If I was not satisfied with the father's response and if I had not heard from her I would write her off and start over. I really did not have that much time invested in her anyway. It sounds like she got cold feet and made herself unavailable on purpose.
Peewee
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Nothing New.... about it!
One of the many Ukrainian scams........
If the director Yana is so strong why didn't she took action there and then if it was a case of forceful abduction (Kidnapping)?
Ah she was afraid of her own safety.....you will say.
Did Yana spoke to the woman?.....I think Not!
Father not worried about his own daughter????.......very far fetched!
I bet the American man would have to pay Cryshna (ransom) money so they let her free and then she will say....sorry changed my mind.... I don't want to marry you!
Kevin..... too many gaps and too many holes in the whole story!
You probably need Groovs writing skills to make this story more interesting, believable and more exciting!
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So far it seems the group has gone from "drop her" to "explain what happen". You can image what the client must be going though at this point. Even the office was totally confused as everyone liked this lady and saw no problems in the relationship.
I had asked Yana to drill her full of questions if she shows up. And if the X-boyfriend is with her be ready to call the police if he tries to interfere or ask for money. I didn't expect to see the lady the following day myself and would be surprise if she showed up. Things just didn't add up...
A little more info.. The father has now made contact with lady. Taxi has been sent for the lady. Family still states she wants to marry. The client is just about as stress out as anyone can get.
So lets continue.
Believe it or not the ladies arrives with the father in the taxi. The father just happen to meet the client in a store next to the office and greets him with open arms. The lady is sitting on a bench next to the office. The father goes and notifies the office that they have arrived. The lady is quickly confronted by Yana..(May God have mercy on her soul). Believe it or not... Yana believe the lady story and give to go ahead for the client to talk to her. The family members say hello and allow the client
some private time.
The story given by the lady is the following. She wasn't aware of the exact date of the client return and wanted to return back to the resort area for work as a nurse in the clinic until he returned. When she got word that he was coming one of the men who also worked in the center who is in love with her got very upset and would allow her to leave. He took her phone and
passport. He also threaten her that if she would leave he would kill himself. A lot of stress for this lady. (questions that I had is why didn't she just leave, her answer was she had no money and it not safe to hitch hike for a lady in Ukraine). After some time she was able to convince the men to let her talk to her family. It was such a call the Yana made with the
step-mother phone that finally allowed us to threaten him to letting her go. Plus by us sending a taxi she could leave. She had mention that she tried to get a taxi to take her to Kherson and pay when she arrived. The problem is no taxi would take such a long trip with a promise of payment when someone could just run once they arrived. So I do give her some creditability to her
story. We later found out the boy mother has also called and is concerned about her son threats of suicide.
So now we have the lady, her father, the client and family still in Kherson. So after some time talking the lady is very happy to see the client and meet the family members. After numerous meeting with interpreters, Yana and myself the decision is made between the lady and client go get married ASAP. Now it typically takes 5-7 days to go though the process of getting married.
But with Yana connections and help a order goes out for a wedding in 48hrs. Wedding dresses, guess, wedding hall, cafe and vehicles have to be arranged and to this day I still don't know how they did it so fast. The lady return the following day back to her village to get thing organized for the Ukrainian traditional wedding and the groom get ready in Kherson.
A Sad note: If this Haden already been enough stress on the client and just about everyone else. One of the friends of the family in the village has a severe asthma attack as they were getting ready for the wedding rituals in village and passes away. A funeral has to be planned at the same time as the wedding is planned to occur the day after the wedding. (Yes, this is for
real).
Because my visa on my car expires on the day of the wedding I am not able to attend. However the word I got was the village ritual went without a problem and the wedding was a great success. Everyone at the village was impressed by the client.
The day after the wedding the client and lady return to the village for the funeral. I volunteer to take the place of the taxi driver to ensure the client got to Kiev on time the following day and we hoped to submit his document to the embassy. However we made a few mistakes. 1. You now need a appointment for the I-130 to drop it off. 2. You need to have your wedding
documents certified by the city before you go. A slight problem that will require another trip by the client to Kiev in a few weeks as we get all of the documents ready for him this week. The good side is the new couple can spend another weekend together.
So that will bring us to a current date. The lady is staying in a private apartment in Kherson instead of the village so she can get English lesson and relax. The X-boyfriend/friend is still in Crimea and his mother said he is alive but highly depressed. No charges are being pressed against him. The lady has a new cell phone with mp3, video and camera that is the envy of some of the staff.
Now before you start asking for the client or lady name it isn't being released by me.
But I will be glad to answer any question you have. Movie rights are for sale...
BTW for those who voted not to come if the client hadn't followed his gut instinct he would be married today.
What is going on today. Aug 9,2006. The client has return back home to America and will return at the end of the month back to Kiev to process the DCF. The lady is living in Kherson and spending her days taking English lesson. Their is no signs of any problems between the new couple.
Believe it or not this is a true story.
Kevin
p.s. Wiz.. The father was out of the loop as I mention when I started because of a family dispute and the location of the lady wasn't determined until the same day we found out and the father wasn't aware of where she was until after we where. Why he didn't go searching for her I do not understand. It is my impression that she decided to leave and find work while waiting and the father didn't stop her as she is an adult. Yana did speak with the lady the same day we found out her location and was the one who threaten the Men with police action if he interfere with her leaving. Many gaps in the story because it was told as it happen and the facts weren't avalable at the time. Like it happens in the real world.
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Kevin
All I have to say is Good luck to them.......but I have my doubts for the succesfull and happy ending.
Let us know when the lady is finally in USA and I would not be surprised if her ex B/F did not come to the scene again.
I am aware of a couple unpleasant, to say the least, examples that make me very cynical.
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I have to share Wiz's feelings. I wish them the best of luck but I really wonder what may be in store for the groom.
A side note, just because I find this an interesting observation. Kevin said it was unsafe to hitch hike in Ukraine. It is funny in a way because the method of hailing a cab is so close to hitchhiking except you give the driver some money. I guess in a case of real hitchhiking the driver might expect payment in another way. No big deal. I enjoyed the story Kevin. It was interesting and thought provoking.
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Time will only tell for this new couple. It was one of the strangest situations I have been in as when they are together they appear like the perfect couple with plenty of effection for each other.
Turboguy. Hitchhiking is common in Ukraine and may people do it in the city instead of getting a taxi. But for a pretty young lady hitchhiking along on deserted backroads still isn't safe even in Ukraine.
Kevin
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This has got to be one of the strangest stories I've ever heard.
Honestly, in such a situation I would have been looking for the proverbial 10 foot pole and began pushing all these crazy people as far away from me as possible. It's people like this who put the FUN in dysfunctional. I've always heard that water seeks it's own level, so the hubby in this case may be as dysfunctional as the wife and entire her family.
I pity them all.
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After numerous meeting with interpreters, Yana and myself the decision is made between the lady and client go get married ASAP.
.. now that's scary! :o
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RUN FORREST RUN!
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I hope they make it and have a happy life together but I too rate this one as a gamble. If they happen to have a lasting happy marriage I hope you come back and let us know.
First I am sure we all hope for that and would enjoy the follow up
Second if they make it, it is one more for my Ken list on my never ending discussions with KenC, jb, and etc.
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Yep, right up there with a snowball's chance in hell.
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But this example does show well to what extent an agency will go to 'push' things along for their customers.
I'm sure the guy had quite a bill to settle.
Not meaning this negatively towards Kevin but business is business..
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BC.
Just for the record the agency did most of the work for free. I spent hours with the client in my personal car going to the villages and place of employement of the father and never charge him. The only charge the client got from the office was for an interpretor service during the wedding and meeting with the family. In fact we arranged the wedding for the client and saved him about $800 that the wedding company wanted to charge him. I would say the agency lost money because of the amount of time we put into helping this client for free. It is my desire to create marriage. Not to sell marriages.
You would be surprise how much work went into finding this lady and at any time if I or any of my staff felt that the lady wasn't interested in the client I would had told him such. People who know me understand that I don't tolerate any type of scam and will tell a client up front if I believe the relationship isn't going to work out.
kevin
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Kevin,
That was quite nice of you but "it sho' don't pay the rent!" ;D
Seems like most of the folks around here feel in the long run it will not work out.. but of course we didn't get much info at all.
Any factors that you can let us in on that made you confident that they are a great match?
Any general aspects you can share? i.e. age difference, communication, how many women the guy interviewed/dated, how long she was looking etc..
Nothing personal just a little background and what struck you as the dealmaker for them.
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Yep, right up there with a snowball's chance in hell.
Since you think his chances are about dead even with a snowball's chance in hell I would be willing to make a cash wager with you on this one but only if I can take the snowball.
Of course some of the can't miss ones do and some of the not chance at all ones make it. I hope after all the anxiety that it becomes a happy marriage.
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I don't tolerate any type of scam and will tell a client up front if I believe the relationship isn't going to work out.
In this case, how could you possibly know? It looked like a pretty scatter brained deal from the beginning to me, no rhyme or reason to anything. In your shoes I'd have told the client to save his money, stay at home, and await a logical outcome of the mystery of where she was and what she was doing. Ya gotta admit, being kidnapped by a UM boyfriend is pretty far fetched. I'm not sure I believe all that crap. She could have just as easily walked away from the clinic and contacted her family in any one of a hundred ways for a ride home. Losing her phone and passport is not a reason to hide out with a UM boyfriend for several days or weeks.
Frankly, my guess is; you have wedded a very insecure and immature AM to a girl who will use him for whatever she can get. Probably a GC, then she'll file an I-130 for her UM boyfriend and they will live happily ever after.
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How much would you like to wager?
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If I have to take the guy and the Marriage, I will bet 10 cents.
If I can take the snowball I will bet $ 100.00
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Kevin you really mislead us on the age differences." Close to the same age" is not
22 and 32. If you would have told us she was 22 I would have said sit them down and you
and your wife give them some council. They have plenty of time. Marriage does not have a
"FLAT RATE" and what is ASAP? ??? As Stupid As Possible !! Somebody up thread said I have
joined the clue bat crew. I believe I have been right on target. I said to" stay out of this " read
AVOID these situations by planning. This kind of thing continues there is going to be a shortage
of green paper. I just cannot believe the family does not have a better relationship with your
people. There is an old saying: Pretty is as Pretty does. She might be Pretty but she Does not
have a clue about her responsibility to her new guy, her parents, or your agency. They better
both get some serious council from the local pastor. Any help is better than none. I wish them
the best.
D
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In this case, how could you possibly know? It looked like a pretty scatter brained deal from the beginning to me, no rhyme or reason to anything. In your shoes I'd have told the client to save his money, stay at home, and await a logical outcome of the mystery of where she was and what she was doing. Ya gotta admit, being kidnapped by a UM boyfriend is pretty far fetched. I'm not sure I believe all that crap. She could have just as easily walked away from the clinic and contacted her family in any one of a hundred ways for a ride home. Losing her phone and passport is not a reason to hide out with a UM boyfriend for several days or weeks.
Frankly, my guess is; you have wedded a very insecure and immature AM to a girl who will use him for whatever she can get. Probably a GC, then she'll file an I-130 for her UM boyfriend and they will live happily ever after.
I question the father. He did not hear from his daughter for a time yet he did not worry about her? I'd be in a car or on a bus heading there to learn why. He seemed to be either not concerned or not fully devulging all what he did know. He served to complicate the situation. That is why I earlier said that the guy should get with the father and pin him down on this. She could have alerted someone. The fellow, unless he was keeping her locked in a room, had most likely given her enough freedom for her to interact with other humans. She could have sent a message to her father for him to come to save her and to advise her fiancee of her dilema.
It seems to me that she went to this resort or whatever it was to be with this fellow. She gave him enough hope that there might be a future for them. When things got out of control she embelished a partially true event, women are very good at doing this when it looks like things are about to blow up on them, to make herself look innocent. (Remember the story of the run away bride?)
Peewee
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I thought of the above because I had recalled something I had read about an Air Force doctor who had done a study that involved his review of Air Force women's claims of sexual assault. He concluded that over 60% of those claims were false. The women had either begun the encounter with the man and later filed a false charge to cover her misconduct or she flat made up the story to implicate the man to seek revenge, or whatever.
He wondered if that was unique of his military study or did this also occur in the civilian sector as well. He studied a grouping of sexual assault charges brought by women in the Chicago area. He learned that the results were the same. That over 60% of those women also had lied or had filed false claims.
I'll see if I can somehow find that study on the internet but I forgot the doctor's name.
Peewee
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Here you go. I found it within a matter of minutes. What I am suggesting is that the woman depicted in Kevin's story made up the story to cover something that happened that would have made her look bad. Again, something that women are very good at doing.
"Meanwhile, a U.S. Air Force investigation by Dr. Charles P. McDowell of 556 cases of alleged rape found that 27% of the women admitted that they had lied (Farrell 322). Three independent investigators then reviewed the other cases, developed 25 criteria for assessing evidence, and unanimously found 60% of the original accusations to be false.
Dr. Fekete concluded that:
According to various sources, including the Air Force study, which had the benefit of 75 false accusers volunteering their motivations, women lie most frequently for spite, revenge, compensation for guilt, or shame, and to account for pregnancy or to conceal an affair. This makes up two thirds of false accusations. The rest have to do with testing someone's love, avoiding personal responsibility, extortion, or some kind of mental/emotional disorder (Farrell 325)."
Even before I had read this I knew this to be true about women. I always took what they were telling me with a grain of salt and a measure of doubt.
Peewee
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Peewee would this be a normal way for a family to handle this in the East?
I hope not!! Do the parents just fade out of the picture after eighteen ? ???
D
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Peewee would this be a normal way for a family to handle this in the East?
I hope not!! Do the parents just fade out of the picture after eighteen ? ???
D
I don't know about the East. I just know that I, as a father, would have gone to find out what had become of my daughter. I have done it several times with my son when he seemingly turned up missing. He is easy to find. I just head for the portion of Seattle known as "China Town". I drive around until I spot his car. I park and then pop into the close by bars until I spot the lad. He is always playing cards with the Chinese guys, flirting with the China dolls, and sipping bubble tea. I have yet to have to pull the kid out of trouble but at least I have the piece of mind that he is not in trouble. I only then have to remind him that I have not heard from him for a few days and wondered if he was alright.
Peewee
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I question the father. He did not hear from his daughter for a time yet he did not worry about her?
Peewee
Peewee
I raised this question earlier with Kevin and I suggest you go read his reply!
"Father was kept out of the loop"......
The whole thing looks to me as another Ukrainian scam.....
She forgot or didn't know when she was getting married??????
or the Letter send to her with the date for the wedding was not delivered ??????
If she was so keen to this American chap WHY she did not get in touch with the agency?
They only talk with a translator and getting married ???????
Too many ??????
Sorry Kevin I am not having a dig on you but Ukrainians are well known scammers, as you must know, and will not stop in anything.
They send their wives illegally to work abroad to send money back......and don't care what work she does!
If I have time I will post later the story of one such tragic example.
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Kevin this story is smelly, more from the girls actions/inactions than by anything else. She appears to have been a fairly compliant and willing kidnap victim unless I have missed something here. It seems like she was free to work as a nurse and come and go as she pleased. Ample opportunities to make phone calls or emails or get the police or run away. No SOS? This kidnapping does not appear to be against her will over the weeks in which this said event transpired. Makes no sense.
There seems to be no kidnapping here. It does not sound as if she was handcuffed to the radiator or trundled up in duck tape and forcibly held against her will. Does it? Did she require counseling after this ordeal?
I think the one who needs the counseling is your client. But a little too late for that. Cheerio. Tim360
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Peewee
I raised this question earlier with Kevin and I suggest you go read his reply!
"Father was kept out of the loop"......
The whole thing looks to me as another Ukrainian scam.....
Why would the father be kept out of the loop. He looks to me to be the center of this entire farce. I said before that I would have been next to that guy and asking questions of him both often and always.
Peewee
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"Shoot gun wedding." Again, why was the wedding hurried?
"Railroaded." Now there is a term that I have not heard used in a while.
Peewee
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Some of you guys seem to have forgotten the key comments.
1. Their was a family arugment in kiev and the lady left home and went to her summer job She not sure which clinic she will work at until she arrive and goes to each clinic asking if they are hiring. Also she was upset with her father.
2. The father wasn't sure where she went and this is a very poor family. he was willing to go with the client to find her. But didn't have the money himself to go looking at every resort in Crimea.
3. Their was no set date on the marriage when the couple left. She was aware he would return in 2 months but no set date. It wasn't until he return that he decided to come back and get married in Ukraine as they had talked about.
4. Once she became aware that he was in Ukraine she attempted to return and this is where the jeolous X got involved.
5. Today they are very happy together as she is living in Kherson and he will return in 2 weeks.
Most of you guys are yelling scam without knowing the couple. Their has been no money given to the family and she gets very little so I dont' see any the normal scam signs. "shoot gun wedding" was a concern up front. but the lady had a choice to say No and continue to work and she chose to return as soon as we got a hold of her and appears very happy now.
Only time will tell us for sure. As I said up front this isn't a normal situation. But sometimes things are not what they appear as many of the readers would had stay homed. This client followed his gut feelings and got married.
Kevin
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I have enjoyed the story Kevin. I am also glad the groom is the groom and it is not me. I hope as you hear more you can keep us posted.
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Just for the record the agency did most of the work for free. I spent hours with the client in my personal car going to the villages and place of employement of the father and never charge him. The only charge the client got from the office was for an interpretor service during the wedding and meeting with the family. In fact we arranged the wedding for the client and saved him about $800 that the wedding company wanted to charge him. I would say the agency lost money because of the amount of time we put into helping this client for free. It is my desire to create marriage. Not to sell marriages.
How can you say that you have loose money in these story... by helping the client, you have save your reputation... and a reputation mean a lot of money...
Imagine if the guy have never married these girl... trip with all family for nothing, agency who don't know where is girl... what type of post have can make the guy in so situation... You have simply save your business... I don't say that it is wrong, almost all good business man will have act like you but don't say that it was only for help the customer... In these story, you have help yourself...
In these story, your are like have predict Leslie, the white knight in the bright armor... nothing wrong with this since each good business will make the same for save own reputation... but please, don't speak of helping the customer... you have help yourself !!!
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Some of you guys seem to have forgotten the key comments.
1. Their was a family arugment in kiev and the lady left home and went to her summer job She not sure which clinic she will work at until she arrive and goes to each clinic asking if they are hiring. Also she was upset with her father.
2. The father wasn't sure where she went and this is a very poor family. he was willing to go with the client to find her. But didn't have the money himself to go looking at every resort in Crimea.
3. Their was no set date on the marriage when the couple left. She was aware he would return in 2 months but no set date. It wasn't until he return that he decided to come back and get married in Ukraine as they had talked about.
4. Once she became aware that he was in Ukraine she attempted to return and this is where the jeolous X got involved.
5. Today they are very happy together as she is living in Kherson and he will return in 2 weeks.
Most of you guys are yelling scam without knowing the couple. Their has been no money given to the family and she gets very little so I dont' see any the normal scam signs. "shoot gun wedding" was a concern up front. but the lady had a choice to say No and continue to work and she chose to return as soon as we got a hold of her and appears very happy now.
Only time will tell us for sure. As I said up front this isn't a normal situation. But sometimes things are not what they appear as many of the readers would had stay homed. This client followed his gut feelings and got married.
Kevin
I can understand now how this would happen. It is a different country and the living conditions are different. When give a limited picture then some assumptions are made. Now more details are revealed, or explained in a different way. I have a friend who lives in Moscow and her parents who live in Rostov. One day her father became ill and so she went to him. She did not relay this information to me and for three weeks I did not hear from her. She was so caught up in her concern for her father's health that she did not think to send an email as there were more important things on her mind.
Peewee
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I don't know any father who would not go crazy if he hasn't heard about the whereabouts of his daughter for a couple of days. Family fight or not, having money or not, he would have done every possible to get in contact with her to make sure she is fine if he hadn't known that she was fine. He constantly assured the agency owner and American boyfriend that the girl would be back for the wedding and voila, she was back! He knew something, right? otherwise why he would not admit that he had no idea where the girl was?
Why the girl lied to her father about her situation when he was allowed to speak with her? What I think is that the girl was having a good time with her local boyfriend and made her appearance just in time for the wedding with this laming story. What is the variant of the kidnapping boyfriend to this story? And why nobody reported this to the police? Helloo, we are speaking about a kidnap!! Or maybe not??
This girl seems to me very irresponsible, with her father, American fiance, local boyfriend, family, but most importantly, towards herself! She doesn't know the wedding date, doesn't communicate with her fiance, goes to a remote resort to work while waiting for her fiance's arrival, gets kidnapped by a jealous ex (how the ex got exactly to that resort?), but manages to speak with her father a couple of times, however, she doesn't inform him about having been kidnapped, no one reports her missing, yet when the American fiance arrives she can learn about it and escape. Yeah, right.
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Bruno
Yes, reputation is important. But I would had done it for anyone client or no client. The option of calling of the engagement was given to the client a week after we lost contact with her and the advice was not to come. But when the father keep telling us she was coming to Kherson and was in love it was the client determination that keep it going. The client was convinces that something wasn't right and that it was real love. The are many stories of men who come to Ukraine seeking a lady only to find the lady missing once they arrive. This is the first time I've heard of a lady missing 2 weeks prior to the arrival that didn't involve an agency scam. As I stated before this was discuss live on our yahoo group as it happen. I have nothing to hide or gain by it and I would prefer that it never happens again. I prefer the less stressful marriages where everyone shows up.
Bluebell. The X boyfriend (or friend) works in the same resort area the prior year when they meet. They meet again this summer when she arrived. she claims not to have any interested in Him and they where never dating but he was someone who liked her allot. This could be the real truth or it could be a lie. Only she knows for sure. Again she wasn't aware of the date and after leaving her family after a conflict she wasn't in contact with the agency to get his letters. I do agree she should had been a little more proactive. Yet in Ukraine things are not as easy as in the West. The resorts are not modern and do not have phones and internet services. So I can understand the lack of communication. Also her history with letters was a typically 2 week delay between letter already as it took her 2 1/2 hours to get to the office via bus. I did expect her to contact the office at least once a week and she still hasn't explain why other then the lack of mobile phone and money.
I do not believe the father was in the loop. He did seem concern but lacked the desire or money to have lead a search. Again let remember she left the family for some reason that I'm not sure of and the family let her go. Again cultural difference might have removed the motivation to go searching for her or just a family structure that lack the desire. I am not sure. What I am sure of is when we did make contact and sent a car she left everything behind but a change of clothes and was very happy we where coming to get her. As far as calling the police. This is Ukraine not America. The police would had responded but lack the man power or equipment to do much more then we could.
Today she started English lesson in Kherson.
I am just as curious of what we will be posting in a year about this couple as everyone else.
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Truthfully it reminds me of Luda and I and PhotoGuy and Larisa which I think were both cases where we wanted it to work more than we wanted to breath but our partners were a little less motivated. I sure hope we have happy tales of this couple but I will guess the result won't be much better than for me or PG.
I have a feeling there will be no 5th Anniversary celebration for those two.
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:D... sorry! The more I read, and re-read, this story--- the funnier it gets!
First, the St. Louis metro may have more than 3 million people in it, but it is midwestern. I have also lived in small towns (briefly)... BUT... this village mindset thing in the east is outrageous. I figure St. Louis is as down-home as any city in America can possibly be, and I have seen some very un-urban behavior in the small towns that have been my home... BUT... this story tops them all!!!
When she got word that he was coming one of the men who also worked in the center who is in love with her got very upset and would [NOT]allow her to leave. He took her phone and passport. He also threaten[ed] her that if she would leave he would kill himself. A lot of stress for this lady.
Kevin--- did this guy (the ex-boyfriend, not your client) ever go out on a date with the lady???
Can't say I have ever met a chick that would compel me to *kill myself* if I could not win her heart. She might drive me absolutely mad for a brief interval... but not to the point of taking my life. These people come off like a bunch of back-woods, mountain hicks. Incredible! :D
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One thing I can’t understand.. People are coming for their weddings and still correspond via agencies? What a rip off! Why do you do it that way? Can imagine how much money they make just through your letters… ::)
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Bradstl, The lady said they never dated and he as only a friend that fell in love with her.
Wild Orchid: Most often once a couple gets engaged we help the lady get a private email account and the couple correspond directly. This is the recommend policy of the agency. However every once in a while a lady doesn't have internet access as in this case the lady lived in a small village and didn't even have a home phone or internet cafe. So she continue to use the agency to send and translate her letters. When we have clients such as this they tend to get the monthly rate rate that only charge .79 cents a letter with free translated and letters from the lady. So your theory of big money Isn't applicable to my agency. But I do agree many agency that charge $10-$20 per letter both way can a small fortune.
Kevin
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I realize the psyche can be different there. I have fallen in love a few times to the point where I might have felt like killing myself over the gal (of course never enough that I would have seriously consdiered it or used it for a threat) I have fallen in love (or lust) with a few gals I have never dated. Personally I don't think I ever did or could have fallen enough in love with a gal I never dated to be suicidal over her.
To me there are some fishy things going on in that part but as long as she sold it and he bought it that is between them.
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To me there are some fishy things going on in that part but as long as she sold it and he bought it that is between them.
I ran this story past the wife to get her take on it, because it isn't adding up for me either...
The short answer was "BOOLSHEET!"
Based on the info provided so far, her guess is that lack of communication between the family members, fight or no fight, is most probably a lie. The lost cell phone is a lie, more likely that she, being with her lover from last summer, found it inconvienient to answer when the AM or the Agency called, but could easily speak with the father in the presence of her RM. Father pointed AM toward "the beach" only after understanding that AM was not going away. Most likely she was "at the beach" the whole time - if she were a hospitality trade worker it would make sense for her to head to Crimea for the summer, as a nurse/hospital worker, it offers no benefit regarding salary or schedule (similar to the US, ever hear of a nurse leaving Pittsburg to work at the Jersey shore for the summer ???) and on and on......
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Jet,
if she were a hospitality trade worker
;D ;D ;D
Was that a typo? If not,,, I've never heard "ladies of the evening" referred to as "hospitality trade workers", but I can see how that title would work.
I agree that "the client", was fed a big serving of BS on this one. Boolsheet is a good word for it.
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I was eluding to waitress, barmaid, dancer, maid, but we could broaden the term to maybe "service industry" ;D
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I ran this story past the wife to get her take on it, because it isn't adding up for me either...
The short answer was "BOOLSHEET!"
Based on the info provided so far, her guess is that lack of communication between the family members, fight or no fight, is most probably a lie. The lost cell phone is a lie, more likely that she, being with her lover from last summer, found it inconvienient to answer when the AM or the Agency called, but could easily speak with the father in the presence of her RM. Father pointed AM toward "the beach" only after understanding that AM was not going away. Most likely she was "at the beach" the whole time - if she were a hospitality trade worker it would make sense for her to head to Crimea for the summer, as a nurse/hospital worker, it offers no benefit regarding salary or schedule (similar to the US, ever hear of a nurse leaving Pittsburg to work at the Jersey shore for the summer ???) and on and on......
I'll draw back to the Air Force study that I had posted earlier. If a full 60% of those were were capable of lying about their sexual assult charges and for the reasons given then it would hold true that this woman did the same, but in a smaller way, yet for the same reasons.
Makes sense, so I will agree with you, Jet.
Peewee
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I’m glad I skipped 3 pages.. What was the purpose of this thread? Endless what would you do?… ::)
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I read this one yesterday and this is my first thoughts...
"Another Western guy racing to SAVE the poor FSU girl" ::)
After I had my wife read this, she called the whole situation "BOOOOLLLLSHIIIIIIITTTTTE" and "it looks like the girl wanted "her cake and eat it too" and "what girl who is getting ready for marriage runs off to Cream" and "silly little girl who wants some last minute sex with ex B/F" and "poor silly little man who has no idea what type of woman she is marrying" and "how come she could not leave, it is stupid"
Anyway, just my 2 cents
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OK, Kevin, so why did you not just get in the car and go sort this out?
I appreciate that this is a long winded advertisement for you, your ethical/moral stance and your agency but really. If true this could have been dealt with better, faster and at less overall expense simply by getting in a car, asking some questions and using your common sense.
Do I detect the tap-tap-tap of two people using white canes, one leading the other?
I now see that one can rely even less upon the good offices of a marriage agency if this is what happens when dealing with one of the self-professed 'good guys'!
Truth tends to simplicity, lies tend to the complex and here we have a pile of complexity, part yours and part in your 'true reporting'.
As another posted, this is not a trip report. But for sure it does not reflect well upon any of the reported participants.
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Andrew
I see you didn't read it all cleary. If we had known where she was we would had gone to her. But we had no ideal where she was until we finally made contact. And I also made 3 trips with the client to find her. (village, Father work and beach).
Update.
The couple is still together. They recently spent a weekend together in Kiev and she should be heading to the USA the first of next month. No problems at home and no sign of the other guy. She is staying in Kherson while taking English lessons and getting ready to leave.
They appear just as happy as any of our other couples in Kherson. It was a strange situation but I think its going to work into a good marriage. I'll continue to update after she arrive in America.
Keviin
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Bluebell. The X boyfriend (or friend) works in the same resort area the prior year when they meet. They meet again this summer when she arrived. she claims not to have any interested in Him and they where never dating but he was someone who liked her allot. This could be the real truth or it could be a lie. Only she knows for sure. Again she wasn't aware of the date and after leaving her family after a conflict she wasn't in contact with the agency to get his letters.
Well as a cop and having at least some common sense, my "Spidey" sense is on overload on this situation-here's why;
1) She claims to not have any interest in him and never dated; Why didn't she seek help from her Father? Her employer? A cop on the street? Use Ukraines version of 911(such as a regular number or the operator)? Ask any stranger to help her? This must be the quickest case of Stockholm syndrom I've ever heard of
2) Any women (or man) truly in love remembers the wedding date, I don't care what country you're in.
3) Could she have called you collect Kevin? (At least the Ukraine version)
I have met some women in not (not with me) and women in general can be very resourceful, but a women in love is like a pit bull that tastes blood-she won't let anything ruin her special day.
My feelings are she went to either meet and update her boyfriend about the wonderful life she's creating for them or went for a last fling before getting married.
I've learned over the years both professionally and personally to trust my "Spidey Sense" went it goes off. Either way this client of yours is more forgiving then I would be since her disappearance raises too many questions and I would have no trust in or with her.
After I had made sure she was physically ok I would tell her to have a nice life and then move on.
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I'd sure like to see a visual of this couple. I have to wonder if they are as visually mismatched as Viking and his St. Pete gal were. A picture would sure answer a lot of questions in my mind.
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I'm going to ask you guys to read everything again before posting.
acrzybear...
1. As stated their was a family fight and she left. Her father had no knowledge of where she was working. Neither did her step mother. She basically ran away from home. 1a. Police don't really care about domestic issue in Ukraine. 1b. It not American no 911. 1c. She could leave the apartment but without money and her mobile she had no way of calling anyone long distance. Nor would a taxi driver take her anywhere with the promise of payment when she arrive. Again many people think western when talking about Ukraine. It is a very different world here.
1 "BUT" I do agree that if she tried very hard she might had been able to reach a internet cafe and email the office.
At the same time this lady had no ideal how the internet works as she has never used it. (village girl).
2. Also the wedding date had not been set only a month that he would come back in. It wasn't until after his return that he decided to set a wedding date and by this time we were out of communication with the lady.
3. It took me a while to find a answer as nobody in my office knew the answer so I'm sure the lady didn't either. The answer is NO. They don't offer collect service or CC service in Ukraine.
My spider sense tells me this lady has a very strong "village mentality" and has no ideal how the real world works yet. But she does seem to care allot for the men she married.
JB. I client has ask that his name and photo be withheld for now. But when I do post it you will see they look like any other happy couple wedding photo's.
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So this plays out like a Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan movie. Two people meet, fall in love, one disappears for some reason, the other tries to find them, they meet again and are happy there after.
I can somewhat relate to the events of this story. I had a woman friend who lived in Moscow. I would call her home about three times a week. One day I called but I did not receive an answer. Day after day same thing. After 10 days I decided that she must have lost interest and moved or something had happened to her.
I quit calling. Another month passed and then I get an email from her. Her story was that her father had become seriously ill and she had traveled to her native city to care for him. When he recovered she returned to Moscow and then contacted me to tell me what had happened. I believed her because she was an honest woman and I did know that her father was old and had not been in good health during the time that we were dating. We did not resume our relationship, however, because I had meet another Moscow lady by then.
Peevee
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Like most here I would probably never ask her to get engaged on the first visit. These things take time and if she is the one she will have no problem waiting. The second visit should most always be to her home gives you a better idea of what she is like as well as meet her friends and not just one family member in a different city. As far as learning that you can’t get a hold of her this is a red flag. A good FSU woman would tell you everything before she does it you are involved in everything.
I am (2) sit back enjoy and wait for her call then no mater what the answer make her wait longer to get married so that you can build trust something that should be there from the beginning.
Ryan
Married 2 year to a woman from Russia
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Ryan,
Are you the Ryan from Michigan that relocted to FL? If you are, how the heck are you? It has been a while, dude! I hope everything is good for you.
KenC
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Hello Ken,
Yes this is the one and only Ryan, is it really KenC it's so unlike you to post a photo.
I am well, moved to West Palm from Michigan then up to Jacksonville. Jacksonville reminds me of Detroit. My wife and I are doing great. It is still the best thing that I ever did in my life. We just purchased a condo very cool. We are off to Russia for a family visit in about a week. It has been two years since she has been home. We need a vacation.
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P.S. Glad I never purchased that K-mart Stock...
Hello Ken,
Yes this is the one and only Ryan, is it really KenC it's so unlike you to post a photo.
I am well, moved to West Palm from Michigan then up to Jacksonville. Jacksonville reminds me of Detroit. My wife and I are doing great. It is still the best thing that I ever did in my life. We just purchased a condo very cool. We are off to Russia for a family visit in about a week. It has been two years since she has been home. We need a vacation.
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Ryan,
Very cool to catch up with you. I know I never posted photos before, but this forum is different. A lot of nice guys here though(and a few buttheads). I am happy for you, man. These RW have a way about moving you to where they want to live, don't they? I love San Diego too though. Has your wifey got her greencard yet?
KenC
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Yep, the wife has the Green Card, she is driving, working, taking some college classes. I have stayed up on all the papework and we are having no problems. Just got my Visa for travel yesterday I always get an invitation so it make things run smooth.
The wife wants kids so that will be next. My dog of 15 years just passed a couple months back so I guess and ready for kids..lol
I have been reading the posts, looks similar to the stuff we always used to talk about years back when I started this.
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Ryan,
Sorry to hear about your dog. I know from experience you can get pretty attached to those mutts.
Dan has put together a very nice forum here. I hope you enjoy it and contribute. There seems to be an abundence of married guys here, so some of the subjects will be more relevant to where you are now in your relationships and not all newbie type questions. You might want to check out "posting photos of your lady" in the married section. A lot of guys got into it and it was nice to see everyone's photos.
It sounds as though everything is going well for you two. I am happy for you.
KenC
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Kevin, you had her home address and could have made contact through that, if not with her then her parents, siblings, whatever, instead you prevaricated and messed around. You gave credence to obvious falsehoods and allowed a misguided swain to become even more heavily embroiled. A little good advice and clear action at the outset would likely have had a beter effect - a good result is not ALWAYS a marriage.
Just ask yourself, what was she 'running away' from? Why did her parents do nothing? If all this cobblers is true is this a woman who is likely to be able to survive the rigours of life in another country? Complex stories are rarely true and you do yourself no favours by giving them credence, nor in asking us to swallow the same tripe.
Whilst we do not know the outcome, really, as a shining star, you and your agency are not a very good example here. This kind of self promotion is only effective if you actually do stuff right.
Well meaning bumbling hardly cuts it as you might now be noticing from the posts on this thread.
I wish both the unfortunates who star in your tale the best of good fortune and hope that they wake up one fine day with a dose of smarts.
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andrewfin
If you read it closely you would had seen that the only contact we had was with the father and this was when he was a work. No home phone. When we spoke to the father he did not know where she went and we spent a lot of time trying to locate her.
You must also remember the ladies age. She was an adult and when she left home after the argument she didn't maintain contact with home.
This was a very weird situation and was a first for us.
Today the couple are getting ready for her exit interview and making flight arrangement for her to leave Ukraine for America.
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Quite an interesting story. And, although it probably sounds far fetched to those with little experience in the FSU, it is quite believable to me. Some very, very strange things happen there and getting info on anything is like pulling teeth.
I have been with gals who spend 20-30 minutes talking to some clerk or official about something . . . and the end result is that they learned nothing about what we needed. I am going crazy trying to get some logical 'this therefore that' type of conversation going between them, but it is all in vain.
And mostly the people there don't insist on logical or fruitful interactions because they are simply used the accomplishing nothing or getting the run around on a regular basis. And they almost seem to enjoy it.
Example: It took one gal weeks, many phone calls, many trips to agents, etc., to get a plane ticket for our vacation trip. After she finally got her ticket, I used internet here to get my ticket in about 10 minutes. When I reported this to her, she replied: "You have not an interesting life in USA."
Back to the main thrust of your story Kevin; I realize you are dealing with adults whom you cannot completely control. However, with your experience, I would hope we would hear about fewer and fewer of these cases where the man falls for gal on first meeting, and then gets engaged after a second one week get together with her and her father.
Better to be reading about men who talk with several women on first trip, comes back for second visit and spends a month 24/7 in an apartment with his preferred gal, then brings her to USA on Fiancee visa and marries her on day 89.
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I love detective stories and role playing games...
At first i believed that "father" could be the boy friend...
unfortunetly the end of the story was not very original!
Anyway thanks to khersongirls for effort and creativity!
True or not true it helps a new member like me to imagine problems that can occur for my first trip...and such stories are common in the wild, wild world even in western country (like a girl killed by her brothers (even in an european country) for dating a non muslim)
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Here is the latest on this couple. They are still married and living in the USA. The lady is still learning English so it has been a hard relationship. But things seem to be working out between the two of them.
Kevin
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Ok, what I would have done. ??? ::) :-\ ???
If being newly engaged to a Ukrainian lady I would have first bought her a new 3G mobile phone so she had a spare one just in case. Then I would have suggested her to get free e-mail accounts; mail.ru, yahoo etc. Then at least if loosing contact one could easily re-connect via the internet from an internet cafe which are located all over Ukraine and not expensive to visit even for locals. Perhaps more importanly when engaged, I would have sent my fiancee enough money so she wouldn't have to work or go out of town for another job. :) Makes sense? SB
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Ok, what I would have done. ??? ::) :-\ ???If being newly engaged to a Ukrainian lady I would have first bought her a new 3G mobile phone so she had a spare one just in case. Then I would have suggested her to get free e-mail accounts; mail.ru, yahoo etc. Then at least if loosing contact one could easily re-connect via the internet from an internet cafe which are located all over Ukraine and not expensive to visit even for locals. Perhaps more importanly when engaged, I would have sent my fiancee enough money so she wouldn't have to work or go out of town for another job. :) Makes sense? SB
Perchance archeologist :o? This is ANOTHER 2-year old thread ::).
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Perchance archeologist :o? This is ANOTHER 2-year old thread ::).
The topic is still valid, why not kick it back to life?
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I guess it is time for an update on this old story. It didn't work out with the lady. After a few months she returned back home and the men started to look again.
Kevin
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I guess it is time for an update on this old story. It didn't work out with the lady. After a few months she returned back home and the men started to look again.
Kevin
Kevin, What do you mean by didn't work out with the lady? Was it because of the hasty decision after just a few meetings, because she didn't like the place of her finance, a culture chock, home sick, big age difference? Any clues that could help other members in this matter and similar situations? Why did it go wrong? Thanks. SB
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This whole thread is total nonsense! No decent agency allows a client to marry some woman in this situation. STAY away from agencies!!!! They are a total rip off!! Especially this one~~~ What would I do in this situation?? Put the agency out of business. Shut down their internet site by destroying their servers and deleting their had drives.
Kevin, if this story is half true and I bet my life it is not, you should never have allowed this guy to even buy a second ticket with such fraud going on in all directions. There is no way she could pass an interview in a US embassy with the history of this short relationship. Engaged after one week? no English? No time in the relationship? Nonsense. This thread is a joke. Why bring back the dead among the living?
If this guy started to look again after this ordeal he deserves whatever he gets. :cluebat:
Mishenka
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Mishenka, I think agencies, good or bad, probably in general can do more for local women than for western men. With the help of an agency many women can make connections they would perhaps not have been able to do on their own. In agency business there all all kids of stories of course. I am not defending it or promoting it, just realize that somethimes they can do good too. SB
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From what I was told. The lady parents were either the one pushing for the marriage or the lady was lying to everyone. After spending some time talking to the lady I do not believe she was of sound mind. However the lady did return and decide to marry the client after running away from her parents home and because we are dealing with two adults it is hard for any person or agency to really understand the mind set of the parties involved. An agency job is too introduce two people who come to us with the implied intention of finding someone for marriage. Mind reading isn't one of my strong points.
Now that I look back on the situation. It is my impression (best guess) that economics played a good portion in her decision to seek marriage. She did stay with the client in America for a few month before returning home for a family emergency (false story) and stayed with her old boyfriend not with her family(guess). Today the client has started a new relationship and the lady has left her family and is living at a unknown location.
This being the first such case for me. I now advice clients that if they feel they are chasing a lady it is best to find another. As there should be no chasing but a mutual meeting in the middle by both parties.
The good news is we had 24 other marriages in 2008 that are still together and this was our only 2nd divorce in 9 years.
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STAY away from agencies!!!! They are a total rip off!!
That is an over-reaction. An agency hooked me up with one of the best ladies in the world. Glad they did.
The good news is we had 24 other marriages in 2008 that are still together and this was are only 2nd divorce in 9 years.
More evidence.
There are pros and cons in the many ways of dating international girls. But good agencies do work, and have many safe-guards compared to other means of finding a girl.
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chasing a lady it is best to find another.
This is some of the soundest advice I have heard of in this endeavor.
HiTech
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An agency hooked me up with one of the best ladies in the world. Glad they did.
Hmmm I wonder why you write one of the best and not the best lady in the world :D
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Hmmm I wonder why you write one of the best and not the best lady in the world :D
Started to write "the best" but decided I don't have time for arguments today :-) LOL
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The good news is we had 24 other marriages in 2008 that are still together and this was our only 2nd divorce in 9 years.
khersongirls, Has most of the marriages been with Americans over the years? My take on the situation is that mostly Americans are marrying Ukrainian and Russian ladies? In many fora there are discussions about this. Some say it is with Europeans because it is closer to Ukraine. Some say it is with next door Russian men. Still I think Americans are the most serious and adventures ones coming to Ukraine with serious intentsions. I am right in your experience and from what you might hear from other agencies? SB
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More Europe men are marrying RW than AM. Working here in Brussels there all over the place. I just hired a woman from Ukraine who married a Swiss guy to get a visa and now looking for a real husband.
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More Europe men are marrying RW than AM. Working here in Brussels there all over the place.
Agree. An fsu girl would typically prefer a European man for several reasons, with the number one reason being geography.