America's Declining Prestige?!?

[IAmZon]

Has anyone else noticed an dramatic change in the perception of being an "American" lately?  And how do other Western origins differ in todays global view?  (UK; Australian; etc..)

[myrddin]

I'm seconding the asking of that question, not answering it. It's been on my mind lately. 

Not an answer but an observation: In Moscow and Leningrad in 1990, the people we met seemed genuinely interested in Americans and most were friendly.  None were visibly hostile (though it's possible that either I have forgotten about those incidents or simply did not notice subtleties, I was only 17 at the time).  Many were very friendly, that much I am sure of 

[docetae]

Has anyone else noticed an dramatic change in the perception of being an "American" lately?  And how do other Western origins differ in todays global view?  (UK; Australian; etc..)

Disclaimer: I am french

Several times during my travels in FSU, I get people having one attitude toward me believing I am Canadian and another when I told them that I am French...
Most of the time, this is the lack of culture and open mind in North America which is flagged by these people. 

[wxman]

I think there has always been the misperception in America that the world thought highly of us. We weren't high on anyone's list during the 60s and 70s during Viet Nam war, or prior to WWII. Only a short time after the end of WWII was this true and only because we had the ability to help rebuild the west after the war. 

[Gator]

Only a short time after the end of WWII was this true and only because we had the ability to help rebuild the west after the war. 

Plus supplying 3,000,000 soldiers to liberate western European countries occupied by Nazi Germany.

Today's disrespect for America is more anti-Bush than anything.  Americans as individuals are still regarded with some respect although to most of the world we seem loud and boastful.

[Serebro]

your image depends on the image of your country in a great way.
Many people had their savings in dollars and believed it and during the past few years it has been sliding down together with american economics, the image of Bush is not good in Russia, but the worst thing is that the USA doesn't have a "worthy"(in Russian point of view) candidate so the future of the USA doesn't seem to be good in comparison with the future of many European countries and China.
it affects the image of Americans on the whole.

[Shadow]

America has done a great job in helping their part of Europe rebuild. But to think that this would earn them eternal admiration from the world in spite of decisions that were not exactly popular is naieve.

My view of America has changed little over the years. I genuinely like the country and the people living there. That does not mean I support the decision to start war in the Middle East, or the attempts to force the view of the USA on to the world.

As currently the USA is in more of an economic crisis than other parts of the world, the money talks less, and that might make people speak out more.

[KenC]

Serebro,
I got news for you, Bush' image is not too good here either!
 
I also agree with your opinion about the quality of the candidates too.  I think the last time I didn't vote for the lesser of two evils was for Reagen.
KenC

[BillyB]

Today's disrespect for America is more anti-Bush than anything. 

That I agree with and the hate is based on the war. But many nations still want us to park our military on their land for some reason? Money and security.

Serebro, in every American Presidential election there is talk of there being no worthy candidates yet somehow one of those unworthy candidates become the most powerful man on Earth.

[docetae]

That I agree with and the hate is based on the war. But many nations still want us to park our military on their land for some reason? Money and security.

Serebro, in every American Presidential election there is talk of there being no worthy candidates yet somehow one of those unworthy candidates become the most powerful man on Earth.

Not only...one good example Ukraine. They want to have no tie with Russia , so what are their options ? Europe ? They are more a problem for EU than something help. And EU will do nothing than can wake up the russian bear...

So what are other choices ? Chinese, India and USA. USA is losing grips in Europe. So only former FSU countries can give them an area of influence.

Ukraine needs money and does not care from where it come... So USA where there at the good time for both...

One good example where money and security does not work ...Irak

[I/O]

2 things I see contribute to the view I see around me and around the world which may be in some decline regarding America/ns. 1 is not the country itself. Anyone who has set foot on American soil can appreciate the beauty and diversity. Those who haven't set foot on American soil either have the sense to shut up or make such ridiculous comments they are disregarded quite quickly.

Americans....no not really, in fact to some extent down here the image has improved over the last 30 years. The loud mouthed, 2 pounds of cheap Mexican gold wearing, put his foot in his mouth at every turn American tourist has almost vanished and has been replaced by one who is far better informed and broadminded enough to appreciate what he sees around him.

Current foreign policy has been the killer. Bush, whether he was the driver behind the formulating of that policy or is simply a puppet mouth piece, has delivered the message poorly and is seen by some as a poor man's version of his daddy.

The cross cultural clash between some Euros and some Americans is IMO largely a result of misunderstood America. It was only during about my third trip to USA that I started to come to grips with what Americans were really about. (Perhaps a lesson there for those going to Russia also) It is the "Demonstrative Pride" which is the difference.

The European continent as a whole has developed it's wealth over many hundreds of years and it seems to be accepted one should "play down" what they have. America/ns have developed it's/their wealth much more recently and very quickly by comparison. There is, again IMO, a mixture of plain jealousy and the novelty for Americans of playing with the new toy, i.e.: that relatively recently developed wealth, which is not appreciated by some.

The point about investment in the $USD and the decline in value which was raised up thread is perhaps correct, however it indicates several things to me. 1) The USD has been seen as the benchmark security currency. I wonder why? Perhaps it has been the most secure for the longest recent time? 2) The sheer naivety of people from developing areas throwing all their eggs into one basket and then considering it everyone else's fault when it doesn't do what they expect. How many times have I seen that attitude in developing countries and with people who don't want to hoe their own row? 3) An excuse to complain about America when in fact their main complaint when drilled down on is American foreign policy.

For those who hope their jealous notion will be realised and America will head down the drain over the next years, I suggest they dig out their "Amex" (Sarcasm intended) and buy a few air tickets, criss cross USA, criss cross Europe, criss cross Russia and China, take a close look at infrastructure, living standards, net disposable wealth and climate. Once done, if anyone with any business experience can honestly tell themselves that America is going to loose out over the coming decades, they should voluntarily commit themselves for psychiatric assessment.

An economy as large as America's will ebb and flow as it has and will for a long time. There is going to be some international fallout from that, not less in my country, but hey, them's the breaks of living in a modern world. Burning an American flag ain't gunna put food in your kid's mouth. Time a few idoits woke up to that basic fact.

I/O   

[Lit_1nce]

Serebro, in every American Presidential election there is talk of there being no worthy candidates yet somehow one of those unworthy candidates become the most powerful man on Earth.

Or possibly woman this time.

I thought Edwards would have been good, but it seems the media thought the other two were more interesting news.. and if you watched any of the debates it was obvious how the media showed who they wanted to run.. There was the primary at the beginning where Edwards finished second and all they taked about were Hillary and Obama.

I'll vote.. but I won't like it this time.

[Serebro]

Serebro, in every American Presidential election there is talk of there being no worthy candidates yet somehow one of those unworthy candidates become the most powerful man on Earth.

there's no the most powerful man on Earth. We don't have the World government.

[Ronnie]

If you are high profile, people will form an opinion of you.  If not, nobody cares.  Serebro, you're right: there is no one world government, yet.  But there is steady and deliberate movement in that direction and it is not the Americans as a people who want it.
In fact, Americans will be hurt most by the movement toward a world federation.  We value our independence and soveriegnty greatly.

Yet the One world Government is promoted by many American leaders.  Bush and his family are up to the ears in the movement.  So are the Clintons, Dick Cheney and John McCain.  (Obama has his own agenda, equally destructive).  Google the membership rosters of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral commission  and  Bilderberg club.  In addition, there is the Club of Rome, Commission of 300, Skull and Bones and the Bohemian Club.  Most members remain in the shadows, grooming future leaders and assuring that candidates for leadership are properly indoctrinated, then use their influence and money to foster the candidacies of their chosen ones.  The best case in point was Jimmy Carter - a do-nothing governor of a smaller state who was chosen by David Rockefeller's Trilateral commission to become president.  When he was elected he filled his cabinet with commission members.  Every president since then (except Reagan) has been so groomed and chosen.

Research the history and purpose of the Rhodes Scholarship.

These wealthy and self-styled ruling class of America, Canada and Old Europe are consumed by a thirst for ever-increasing power and comforted in the fairy tale that their goal, when achieved, will produce a world without war.  They conduct their meetings in secret and do not discuss their agenda outside their meeting halls.

Average Americans and Canadians are the greatest potential victims of their plan.  Because Americans have built a much higher quality of life than any of their southern neighbors, the elites calculate that the gap must be narrowed as the next step toward world economic integration. 

Our leaders have been purposely driving America into debt, eroding the value of our dollar and depressing the incomes of working Americans. Unemployment is rising and American wages are falling. Yet at this moment, bills are being introduced in Washington to triple the number high-tech worker visas from the 65,000 already allowed each year.  This, while jobs in the tech sector are shrinking along with pay.  Is it treason?  I don't know, but it is certainly a violation of the oath of office when leaders make agreements take action designed to compromise the constitution and erode American sovereignty and prosperity.

Russians and Europeans seem quite willing to sit back and let charismatic leaders take them down dark roads.  It is their history to do so.   Americans are cut from a different historical cloth.  Americans will only take so much treachery before we revolt.  The defeat of last year's omnibus immigration bill was the first skirmish.  The leaders know that we're waking up so they are moving more quickly to reach their objectives.  I fear for my children and grandchildren if we don't let our voices be heard loud and clear on every attempted betrayal.

Register at www.numbersusa.com  for free faxing to officials.

[wxman]

There has been a lot of talk over the last few years by the politicians about the debt. In fact the US has been in debt virtually since 1791. Our debt vs GDP was actually higher under Bill Clinton than Bush. Under Truman is was close to 90%. Amazing how this subject is the talk of doom and gloom for the US, when in fact it has always been the case. We are not that bad off, no matter what the politicians and economists might say. The doomsayers will always scream and shout, it's best just to ignore them.

[BC]

Russians and Europeans seem quite willing to sit back and let charismatic leaders take them down dark roads.  It is their history to do so.   Americans are cut from a different historical cloth.  Americans will only take so much treachery before we revolt.  The defeat of last year's omnibus immigration bill was the first skirmish.  The leaders know that we're waking up so they are moving more quickly to reach their objectives.  I fear for my children and grandchildren if we don't let our voices be heard loud and clear on every attempted betrayal.

Register at www.numbersusa.com  for free faxing to officials.

Ronnie,

revolt?
are you kidding?? you'd be labeled a terrorist!

Really I have enjoyed a few of your thoughts, cut n pasted or not, but this really goes overboard.

sorry....

[ScottinCrimea]

wxman, I have no opinion either way, but the one thing that struck me on your graph was not the highest level of debt vs GDP, but the increase or decrease within each administration.  In only two cases is the trend upward.  During the Bush/ Reagan years and during the GW Bush years.

[wxman]

We also had a higher debt to GDP through WWII and in fact was around 100% during WWII into the early 50s when we were not even an economic power. Yet we came out of it just fine. Yes it has been going up, but it's also part of a normal cycle. It will go back down and it will go back up again,  just like the swings from economic growth to stagnation. All part of capitalism.  Intersting graph below. Note in 1953 our debt was $6.82 billion while our GDP was $2.86 billion. Could you imagine what the media would be saying if our debt was 250% higher than our GDP? The second graph shows that our GDP is actually growing at a faster rate than our debt, which of course is good news, not gloom and doom news.

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/5543118

[Ronnie]

It's not correct to measure debt in absolute numbers or in terms of percentage of GDP.  The question of great concern to me is what is the purpose of the debt?  Is it to invest in our own infrastructure or to build up our bases of production, as in the past? Or do we go into debt to subsidize the same in other, unfriendly nations, as now?

[I/O]

Ronnie: You're a bit too off the wall for my tastes and frankly I am tiring of this crap you are pushing here, but I will give you credit for having passion in your opinion. Much like my ex wife had passion on this very same subject, one world government, one world currency......................oh sch!t 666 ain't far away..............

I asked her (and her mates) the question as a Neo Christian, which she was, do you know where you are going when you die? She said yes. My next question was all too obvious, but she and her crank brained mates didn't see it coming, "If you know where you are going, then what are you so worried about"? It was never said, but I know I was never forgiven and it was the beginning of the end.

The bottom line is that I could not be manipulated to this way of thinking by them as I won't be by you or anyone else for that matter. Ronnie, it is the people spruking this line who are far more guilty of attempted manipulation than the so called secret meeting groups they rail against. The evidence of a push for one world governing body is sadly missing in the argument. The claimers speak of these fragmented groups meeting secretly.................hello, isn't that what the one world government is completely opposed to? More fragmentation is completely the opposite.

For those who would wish it another way, good luck, but the USA president, for all practical intents and purposes is the most powerful figure on earth, however to throw some humour at it, may I quote something from a wall sign in my office.......

"Welcome to our world, where we the unwilling, led by the unqualified, have been doing the unbelievable, for so long with so little, that now we attempt the impossible with nothing".

I/O

[wxman]

? Or do we go into debt to subsidize the same in other, unfriendly nations, as now?

Haven't we been doing that for the last 100 years? How many billions have we doled out in foreign aid since the turn of the last century? Can we not say they have done the same for us? Who is basically loaning us money to keep the economy running? China and Japan. The US has been a debtor nation since it's inception. Virtually every advanced economy is a debtor nation. We rely on developing economies to produce our low tech needs. They in turn need us to create growth in their countries. Everything is intertwined. It's a global economy. We can't live in the past. China, India and Brazil becoming economic superpowers can only be good news for us. It eventually leads to a growing middle class, which means they spend more money, which in turn opens the door for more opportunities for the US. Turning around and going back to the past can only lead to one thing, the end of the US. You ask the majority of the elderly, and they will say life may have been simpler in the past, but the quality of life is much better now than then. Work is less strenuous, pay is better, more vacation time, technology is much better, medicine is more advanced and so on. In fact how many times have you heard, or have you said, that life is much easier for the youth today, than it was when they or you were younger?  Isn't that a true measure of success?  I have no fear of the future. I know it will be very bright.

[Ronnie]

evidence of a push for one world governing body is sadly missing in the argument. The claimers speak of these fragmented groups meeting secretly.................hello, isn't that what the one world government is completely opposed to? More fragmentation is completely the opposite.
I/O

I/O,
Australia is a long way from the USA and Europe.  My part of the US (California) and many others are under seige.  Just recently a video was aired on Youtube.com where a spokesman from the Mexican consulate in San Diego, announced defiantly and confidently to a gathered group of citizen protesters, that "this was, and will be Mexico!"

When my wife arrived in California, she asked, "Is this America?" "It seems like Beijing or Bombay."  I told her that it didn't used be like this 15 years ago.  We have now moved to a part of California that is more as she expected.

State and local governments are passing laws to control illegal hiring of people with stolen id cards and Federal Government and other interests are fighting them!  Google "Robert Pastor" and read his comments about the SPP.  Google "Amero"  Google "World Federaltion Movement." Search them on Youtube.com so you don't have believe what someone writes.  Search youtube for "Cronkite and Hillary" listen to them talk when they think they have a like-minded audience.
 
Wxman, now that we import virtually everything need to live, the dollar has been falling. Dollar/Euro was .90 just 5 years ago, now it's 1.50.  It's the primary reason for $100 oil prices.  And you sit there saying seniors are doing well? 

Consider this, When I was a teenager working summers in the peach orchards, I earned minimum wage...$1.25/hour.  With one hour of work (at minimum) I could buy 4 gallons of gasoline for my car.  Today, 4 gallons of gas costs $14.  Nowhere does a kid make anywhere near than kind of money even in Calfornia, even doing semi-skilled labor.  Look at the jobs offered on Craigslist.com.  Most require skill or experience and pay $8-12.  My Ukrainian stepson makes $11 as a baker...his girlfriend makes $8 as a cashier at Chevron station.  My wife, not speaking Spanish is virtually unemployable, even doing menial work, in Southern California.

This is a growing crisis in America that will affect most other nations sooner or later as well. 

I spent most of my career as a stockbroker...had my thumb on the economic pulse and was bullish on the future. That was then.  I'm the same person today but I'm seeing very disturbing things happening.

Losing prestige in the world should be the least of our concerns.

BTW Wxman, my senior softball team...average age 64...feel, to a man, exactly the same way I do.

[BillyB]

Our leaders have been purposely driving America into debt,

Ronnie, since you were a stockbroker once and have some understanding of numbers and the pulse, then this should make sense to you:

 It takes only two European countries to surpass America in debt. The top countries that are in debt are all developed nations that I wouldn't mind living in. Guess who has the controlling share of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund? America does because we have the most money to loan. Go figure? Sure we owe somebody but a lot of somebodies owe us too. Most countries would love to have our debt along with our economy and to be in our shoes in having spare change to loan out. Don't believe politicians, media or radio talk show hosts who use debt as a reason for alarm to vote a certain way.

wxman, those charts are useless because they add up all America's debt for decades and compare it to a one year's GDP. That's not a fair way to compare. If you add up every year of debt and compared it to every year of GDP added up, you will find that total GDP added up the last hundred years skyrockets past the total debt accumulated the last hundred years.

The scare some people are putting out is America's debt accumulated for decades is catching up to the latest year's worth of GDP.

http://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

eroding the value of our dollar

The Canadian dollar and the US dollar once match each other 30 years ago. Nothing to panic about. Everyone's money move up and down. Down has it's benefits as exports increase and so does tourism. American's don't feel the pain but we will end up buying less imports due to the dollar being down. Ask companies outside the USA such as Airbus on how the low dollar has been hurting them more than Boeing.

depressing the incomes of working Americans.

Todays American's are living better with more than their father's and grandfather's. If an American finds himself working at McDonald's and can't make a living, that's a good thing because he'll think about getting an education to the benefit of himself and this nation.

Unemployment is rising and American wages are falling.

Unemployment has been at it's lowest rate in a long time. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates compared to most developed nations. Although some Union members complained about immigrants stealing their jobs in the last town hall meeting I was at, the labor Union was recently advertising for more people to join the Union and the Congressman at the meeting said Washington State farmers were losing millions of pounds of crops due to the lack of workers and they want the government to create more work visas. Why? Because the average spoiled and lazy American rather sit on unemployment than take a back breaking farm job. There's no way to work everybody because some people just don't want to work.

Ronnie, based on one of your posts, I don't know if you're extreme to the right or extreme to the left. You speak of a government conspiracy to bring the people of this nation down with harmful policies for personal agenda discussed during their secret society meetings. If this country goes down, they won't have any power as they go down too. I don't see the gloom and doom you do.

[wxman]

There have been 4 depressions in the US. One in the 1930s, 2 during the 1800s and one after the Revolution. In addition the US fought 2 World Wars, the second in which the government was bankrupt and on the verge of making peace with Japan, but the people came through by purchasing war bonds to keep the war machine going. The US is not anywhere close to the problems of the past. Too many people forget the great struggles of the past and try to overhype the small problems of today. The optimists are the ones that allow the evolutionary economic tree to branch out and grow, while the pessimists provide no benefit to that tree, become extinct and are forever forgotten. The future belongs to those that find solutions, not those that say the sky is falling.

[wxman]

Wxman, now that we import virtually everything need to live, the dollar has been falling. Dollar/Euro was .90 just 5 years ago, now it's 1.50.  It's the primary reason for $100 oil prices.  And you sit there saying seniors are doing well? 
BTW Wxman, my senior softball team...average age 64...feel, to a man, exactly the same way I do.

The seniors that are not doing well are the ones who did not plan for the future and expected that the government would take care of them with social security. Social Security was never met to be a retirement program, but a safety net. I grew up in a lower middle class family with 5 children. My parents who are in their late 70s, knew social security would not provide their needs. They saved their money, invested wisely and now are living comfortably.  My father never made more than $30,000 a year in his life (and that was his last year working 12 years ago), while my mother was a stay at home mom.  House is payed for, no car payments and pulling in over $5000 a month from their investments. The money they don't spend each month is re invested and making more money. So when I hear that there are seniors that complain that they can't make it I just shake my head. I know in most cases it was by choice.