Getting started

[TheHorseman]

Ok,,,, I guess I missed something.  I don't understand the Korea angle.

I Bobs defence.  He has been working in St Petes for the last 4 yrs.  In the short time I was there I saw exactly what he is talking about.  The city is over run with foreign men.  While he and I were sitting in a cafe.  A man walked up to me to say hello because he saw my OU hat through the window, He was from Oklahoma.  I also meet several American men while just walking down the street.  I over heard them talking. And judging from some of the teachers I saw at the schools we went to I would say that there is an element lacking in there style.  They were all younger too.

Men looking for wives tend to be older, more experienced in life, usually a little more educated, and willing to try different aproches,,, ie that is what they are doing in the first place TRYING A DIFFERENT APROCH

Also the point that St Petes is the main home of all the Bride tours. My Idea depends on getting away from that sort of invirenment.

So back to the Relations 'Standards' and Guidelines.... What would apply to my line of thought in a business like this. 
Any input is welcome.

Will

[TheHorseman]

Come on,,,, I hate having to respond to my own posts.  What did I do come up with an idea that was good enough that no one could argue?

What about the Guidelines and Rules.  Does anyone think that they would be interested in a dating/teaching type service?  What would you expect from such a service and what do you think about teaching? 

Any input is welcome.... Help me to make a business to help everyone.  That is the main idea here isn't it?

Will

[jb]

Will,

I hate to rain on your parade, but I have, in the past, spent a collective 12 months of teaching Russians, (4 months at a time for 3 years).  I am a trained instructor, and I'm here to tell you, not everyone is suited for the task.  If you add in the distraction of searching for a g/f at the same time, I believe the quality of the classroom experience is bound to suffer for the bulk of the student body who have paid good, hard earned, money for the experience.

I know you are in love with the idea of teaching while searching as a way to minimize cost, it's your baby and I don't want to be the one to tear it's arms and legs off, but personally, I don't think it's a sound idea for most men.  If you are that worried about spending, or saving, a few bucks to find a suitable mate, then, IMHO, you may be in the wrong place.

[Sohkay]

Will,
This could be an historical moment (just kidding), but sincerely, I will second jb's comments on your idea. I think you should take this advice to heart, if you are sincerely looking to start a business of this sort. Not trying to discourage you, but suggesting that this is a "back to the drawing board" moment.

[TheHorseman]

I happen to agree with jb that most men are not suited for teaching.  I also agree that making sure that the classroom doesn't suffer is a huge concern.  I can see that jb is and has been a concerned teacher and that he doesn't want to deminish from the teaching end of the deal.

But being an English teacher I am sure that you have run across classroom that simply needed native speakers to come in and talk to the classes.  The whole idea of the men looking for women doesn't promote them as teachers as much as it uses them as speakers for the classes.  I am also sure that you have notice that most of the schools in Russia would rather keep their students entertained as apossed to actually teaching .... I have read several articles that point this out in detail.  Not that I agree with it. But if you have a somewhat regular flow of native speakers to come to the class and just talk it will keep them entertained while at least offering conversation practice.

This would allow the men to have a jumping off place to meet women that are interested and probably speak some english.  Special classes would be set up for these purposes alone.  I understand that these men are going to want to simply meet a woman ans then spend time with her.  Most of these women have regular jobs and there will be a lot of time for the men to kill while waiting for there new girlfriends (I know I did)

The fact that the school doesn't have to pay extra money for the speakers, but they draw in different student (some interested in dating) this allows the school to afford to add on extra teachers that are quailified to teach properly.  There by insuring that the main base of the students are cared for.  these extra teacher can also sit in on the Dating classes as tranlators. 

I am not trying to make a single business from this idea.  This is only one aspect of a large picture in where I am trying to build up the school.  I have several other plans for the school that don't pertain to visiting men and dating.  I don't expect any more than maybe one or two men a month.  If if doesn't work, it won't effect the other portion of the schools buisness or mine.

I am just as concerned that the school not suffer.  It isn't as though I plan to start cutting men loose to run around acting like teachers.  If I proceed with this (Many thing have to come together first) I plan to screen the men interested as much as possible and be there to oversee potential problems.

Sure the money saving end of it does come into play.  My point being would you rather pay $4500 + for a 2 week Bride tour, or Average total of $2500 for a month in a smaller town that hasn't had the regular tourists screwing it up.

And Thank you for the input... It doesn't hurt for you to point these thing out,,, that is what makes ideas grow.  send me more.

[jb]

Will,

I never said I taught English to Russians, I taught engineering physics, instrumentation, and geophysical exploration concepts to Russians.

I entertained my students during off hours and weekends, during classroom hours it was work, work, work and more work.  I don't know where you got the idea that schools in Russia primarily entertain students, that has not been my experience.  Most Russians I know are pretty serious when it comes to learning, I have found them to be a studious and dedicated bunch. Especially if it's a subject that will lead to professional advancement. 

My wife, for a time before we married, taught English at a private school in Moscow as a second job in the evenings, and she would tell you in a heartbeat that the native speakers, mostly female ex-pat Brits, who were teaching there were very much on the ball during classes.   

Teaching is just a job, you have to work at it to be successful, teaching is a serious business and I'm sure your buddy in St. Pete will comfirm that for you. 

[TheHorseman]

Sorry jb,,, I took it that you had been an English teacher in Russia.

Your qoute "Teaching is just a job, you have to work at it to be successful, teaching is a serious business and I'm sure your buddy in St. Pete will comfirm that for you."

Since Bob has been a active working English Teacher in Russia for the last 4 years (Continuously)  And the fact that he runs a site especially for Teaching and Teachers in Russia and he has been actively working with several schools in St Petersburg.  Some of which he took me alone for introductions.  He will be the First to tell you that a lot of the schools have adopted the philosphy that entertaining is easier than teaching.  I even heard the Qoute "Oh, just keep them entertained" while I was there.

Even though my Teaching experience is limited, I tend to be a quick study.  I know what areas I am good at at what areas I should stay away from.  I am a better manager than teacher. I also believe I did say that this plan included adding on quailfided teachers. 

I happen to have a young girl staying with me at the moment from the small town that I went to.... She is here on a summer job program.  She is a university student.  She has been telling me all about the school work ethic.  Yes some of students do work their butts off and study, while the others are paying off the teachers to give them passing grade.  The only ones that are studying hard are the one that are looking for the work advancement.  Those don't tend to be the one that wouldn't be interested in dating, but again those are the ones that are most interested in conversational English.

So I don't see that poking any holes in my plan at all.  If you want to varify any of this with Bob,,,, I am sure he will be willing to put in his opinion.  He has a good head for business and he is a great teacher,,,, I had the opportunity to watch him work with a woman while I was there.  You can find his site at
http://www.visarus.co.uk/community/index  I have a couple articles posted there and am waiting for Bob to post the last one about Teachers abusing the schools.  I could send you the article if you like.

Thanks
Will

[jb]

I happen to have a young girl staying with me at the moment from the small town that I went to.... She is here on a summer job program.  She is a university student.

Oh really??? Which university does she attend?

My wife was supposed to return today from Moscow, however her Delta flight was cancelled due to flooding and more rain coming down in Atlanta.  Hopefully she's get home by Saturday.  She, my wife, maintains a close personal working relationship with her alma mater department heads at MSU, Physics Faculity, (Moscow State University), as she also teaches math and physics at the college/university level here.  You have to know how these academic types like to stick together. 

Your young friend might enjoy visiting with a Russian woman college professor in her native language while she's here.  PM me with a phone number if you think to would be a good idea.

[bobs12]

The fact that the school doesn't have to pay extra money for the speakers

I'm sorry Will...  volunteer teachers can make a mess of wages for both local and foreign teachers... This is something I've been dead against for the last two years. You just might eventually meet with mud-slinging from local teachers unless they get something out of it. Russians are good at being vocal in their opposition to these things, especially in smaller towns. You'd have to make sure it wasn't competing with paid teachers.

JB's point about quality is sound. I'm assuming the students will still be paying for 'lessons', as the schools won't be doing this for free. If they're expecting to learn English, they could well be disappointed... There are enough backpacker 'teachers' who come here to 'teach' while they're distracted by girls, vodka, etc... They're the ones that got local teachers baying for our blood.

JB, as you taught a professional subject you'd likely have been dealing with serious people. Put those same people in an English classroom and you'd probably get them waiting for the clown performance to start. EFL is a very competitive industry here now, marketing on the premise that if you pay more you learn faster. 'Modern' teaching techniques mean making students work hard is the hallmark technique of an 'old-fashioned' charlatan. Sad, but true. I've even been branded 'old fashioned' by one of the biggest schools for suggesting that students should read aloud in class.

[TheHorseman]

I do have to take what Bob says as "the word of experience" when it comes to the TEFL world.  However he and I do have several ideas in common, we also occassionally disagree. 

Since on my first teaching trip I did go as a volunteer I can speak a little about it from that perspective.  The regular teachers were more than happy to allow me to do anything that they could get me to do.  Since it made no difference in their pay, They were thrilled.  That is actually the same premise I am perposing.  Nothing would change from their point of view except that they may not have to put out as much effort.

Again I am not talking about  "The backpacker 'teachers' who come here to 'teach' while they're distracted by girls, vodka, etc..."  We are talking about men that are usually in there 40's or 50's and well past the Backpacker stage and have a goal in mind.

jb.  the university that Albina attendes is in Ufa.  She is not the only student to told me such things about the teachers and grade progress.  Don't know if she would be interested in talking to your wife,,, I will ask... I just found her an apartment in the city and another job so i will not be seeing as much of her Hopefully,,,,, (Looking at a pretty young woman after being with out so long is hard on the system).

She is trying to bring her girlfriend here from PA to stay with her.  She will only be here until the end of August.  Then back to school.  I am only helping out.

[TheHorseman]

Everyone seem dead set on telling me why it won't work.  But the comments that it won't work don't seem to be directed at the main point of the idea.

The main idea is to provide a platform for men to meet women in a way that will give them the best opportunity to for a good relationship with a woman. It works the same way for the woman.

Instead of poking holes in the idea,,,, which I think as a lot of potential.  Why not start making the Guideline and regulation for such a business. Stop saying it won't work, and start thinking "what would it need to work".

Everyone in here seems to be of the same mind that "What is out there now isn't working".

Lets build something that does.  We are Americans,,,,(most of us) Americans have never taken "NO" for an answer.  That is why we are where we are. We change, we adapt, we overcome.

Ok,,, I know enough with the Raw Raw...... But think about it.

[catzenmouse]

One thing that I thought of is (for me) it would be interesting to do some conversational teaching when we go to visit the family. Don't need to worry about the girl hunting part as I couldn't find a better one than the one who was blind enough to marry me so that takes one distraction off the table. It would give me something to do when Elena wants to visit her friends or go shopping with her sister and would not only give me a different perspective on the people but probably help my pathetic Russian too.

Ken

[bobs12]

One thing that I thought of is (for me) it would be interesting to do some conversational teaching when we go to visit the family.

Ken - keep her away from opticians, they're much cheaper over here

Depending where the family is I might be able to point you to a couple of places that'll take you up on that.

[catzenmouse]

bobs,

 This would be in Omsk. South Central Siberia. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
 Ken

[TheHorseman]

I think Bob is your best bet for finding a school there Ken.  I also think it is a great way to give yourself something to do and meet people at the same time..... good luck with it.

I seem to be wayning the opposition to my idea,,, but I still don't see any suggestions on what would make it better.  I will take it that I have countered enough of the "It Won't Work" points to at least have people thinking it has possibilities.

And Bob,,, I think you would be the perfect Director for this type of thing.  You speak Russian, you are a quailified teacher and you know what the students need and want.  I also think your knowledge of Russian women would be a plus for the men.
Think about it.

Will

[bobs12]

Okay, I'm thinking From looking at the site that's the subject of *the other* topic I started & from what we spoke about way back when you first mentioned the idea, I think I've seen something that could make it work, on the lines of the kind of guys that would be attracted. Need to sleep on it though, may write from Estonia if I get a chance.

Ken - unfortunately the only place I know of in Omsk is the British Council, I'll look for others. Stay away from any schools called 'English First', 'Language Link' or 'BKC' - they don't deserve your help

Try contacting them - details are at http://esl.visarus.co.uk/in/RU/Russia/schools/view/138.asp - ask them if they have anything like reading clubs or whatever. I don't know whether BC in Omsk is a teaching centre or just a resource centre. Either way, BC's are often very helpful and may well be able to recommend a nice small school where you'd have a good time. The smaller the school, the better.

If you get in touch, could you mention that I sent you? I'd love to get some more schools from Siberia signed up on my site, it's becoming a popular destination for teachers.

[catzenmouse]

Bobs,

 Thanks much. I went ahead and registered with the site so that I can move around it more freely and have the contact information. Will do on the reference.

Ken

[bobs12]

Hope it's useful! Logging in only gives you the email and fax (stops schools from getting spammed =) but the best thing before emailing really is to call.

Let me know if you have any questions & I'll try to help. Will is also a good source on this as he's been much further out into the sticks than I have. I get jealous occasionally... 

[Bruce]

I agree with what JB posted earlier on.  When I was in the search mode the last thing I could contemplate was dropping my career to teach English in Russia.  I think the average established guy in this country is in no position and is not desperate enough to drop his profession for a pie in the sky year to teach English to people with the hopes of finding a bride along the way.  Young kids out of college who want to live abroad - sure they could spare the year.  Established quality guys, no way.  Chances are the guys who do not have a good career who drop what amounts to nothing to go over and teach English will not be able to hold a FSU woman here if they are able to attract one. 

Matters of the heart are very difficult to program.  Guys and girls can only be introduced and helped with their surroundings / language. 

As far as standards I think it is up to the agency to set and uphold its own high standards.  Hopefully, the wheat will separate from the chaffe.  Unfortunately, it seems that the good agencies go down and the unscrupulous / scam agencies thrive.